LAURA PIKE: Hello,
everyone, and welcome to today's
webinar - Making, Collaborating And
Rehearsing Work For Digital, with
Kelli McCluskey and Steve Bull from
pvi collective. My name is Laura,
and it's actually really exciting to
be joined by these two artists today
for what I know is going to be a
really great session. I would like
to start by warmly acknowledging the
traditional owners of countries
throughout Australia, including
where you are joining us from today.
I, myself, come to you from Gadigal
land of the Eora nation, and I pay
my deep respects to Elders past,
present and future. Currently on
screen is a blue PowerPoint holding
slide with text and video boxes. Of
our guest speaker and our Auslan
interpreter, David. I myself am a
woman in my mid-30s. I have fair
skin, dark brown hair, and wearing a
denim jacket, and I'm sitting in my
house/makeshift office. Welcome to
Creative Connections, everyone. In a
minute, I will introduce you to our
guest speakers for today, Kelli and
Steve, to talk about the future of
live participatory performance in a
post-COVID world. These sessions
have been designed for you to
provide support, resources, and a
sense of collective reimagining of
our futures and our practices during
these wild times. It seems clear now
things will never return to normal.
We have an opportunity to think
differently and creatively. To step
into the unknown and the uncertainty
without any answers. To ask
questions, reflect, and challenge
our assumptions and patterns. I
personally can't think of any better
to help us with this than pvi
collective. Before I hand over to
Kelli and Steve, I'd like to just go
through some of the housekeeping and
features of today's webinar. I'll
keep it brief, because I know many
of you have heard this before.
Closed captioning is available. You
can turn it on by pressing the "CC"
button at the bottom of the screen,
or using StreamText via the link in
the chat. We will be running a chat
throughout today's session. Frances
will be looking after this so, if
you have anything you'd like to
share, please do so in the "Chat"
function. We'll also be hosting a
Q&A with Steve and Kelli at the end
of the session, and Ian will be
looking after this. If you have any
questions throughout the session,
add them to the Q&A, again at the
bottom of the screen. If you're
having any technical difficulties or
things aren't working, you can use
the "Raise Hand" feature, and Kevin
will be in touch to try and resolve
it for you. Today, like every
session, we will be recording, and
the recording will be published on
our website in the next few days.
I'd just like to let you know a
couple of opportunities and
resources that are available for you
at Council. This week, we released
Re-ignite: Re-activate, a practical,
user-friendly guide for independent
artists and organisations. It
outlines how to confidently comply
with government guidelines to
recommence practice and open doors
to welcome audiences, visitors and
customers. The resource supports our
sector with jurisdictional
compliance to COVID-19 restrictions
and regulations, and you can find
out more about this resource on our
website. Last week, we also launched
some new Creative Connections
sessions. They're sector-led by you,
and they cover a range of topics
including digital adaptation,
leadership adaptation, and practice
adaptation. So you can register for
these sessions on our website. OK,
so, it gives me such great pleasure
to introduce our guests for today.
Currently on screen is a PowerPoint
slide to introduce our speakers,
Kelli McCluskey and Steve Bull.
There is a black-and-white portrait
of Kelli looking at the camera with
glasses and blonde hair. Steve is
shot in side profile, sitting at a
desk, looking...  ..thoughtful.
(LAUGHTER) pvi is a tactical media
art group who create agitational
participatory artworks intent on the
creative disruption of everyday
life. They are based in Perth,
Western Australia. The majority of
their work is situated in the public
realm and operates from the
participatory perspectives of the
audience through provocations and
immersive experiences. Their
collective has produced an extensive
and eclectic body of work and, if
you aren't familiar with their work,
I encourage you to have a look at
their website. Kelli and Steve are
co-artistic directors of pvi
collective, with extensive
experience as artists, leaders and
provocateurs in both Australia and
internationally. I have admired
their work for long time, and it has
consistently encouraged me to think
differently about how I work,
operate, and engage with the systems
in our lives, and the role that art
plays in these systems. In talking
to them about this session, they
were clear they didn't have any
answers - only questions. And
perhaps at this time, questions are
what we need. To ask ourselves, our
organisations, our sector, and our
society - "What are we doing? What
does it mean? What does the future
look like? And how do we get there?"
Now is the time for imagining,
questioning and challenging. So,
thank you so much, Kelli and Steve.
I'm going to hand over to you now. I
think you've got some slides to
share. >> KELLI McCLUSKEY: Thanks,
Laura. Hi! Thanks for that. Um, hi.
OK. So, before we start today, I
would like to acknowledge that we
are on Whadjuk Noongar Budja during
the Makuru winter season. We pay our
respects to Elders past, present and
emerging. We know that sovereignty
was never ceded and that the Uluru
Statement from the Heart needs to be
acknowledged as a necessary path
forward for recognising Indigenous
Australians' cultural authority in
the nation's Constitution,
remembering that the Uluru Statement
is an artwork as well as a political
document - perhaps THE most
important artwork ever for this
country. So, kaya, everyone, and
thank you to the Australia Council
for the Arts team - Laura, Frances,
Ian, Chavoy, David, for the
webinars. We're learnings from them.
As Laura mentioned, I'm Kelli, chief
artist of pvi collective. I have
short, messy blonde hair with red
spectacles. >> STEVE BULL: I'm
Steve, an artist with pvi
collective, I'm fair-skinned with
wavy grey hair, brown eyes and
round, chrome spectacles. And I'm
sat right next to Kelli in pvi's
making space with shelves of books
and props behind us. Now, to be
honest, we have written and
rewritten this session in our heads
so many times, and changed our minds
on what on earth we can bring that
will be useful, as things seem to be
shifting on a daily basis. It's hard
to know if this is going to be a
meaningful contribution. But we
thought we could share some
reflections on the future of live
performance from our perspective in
a post-lockdown world. And we also
thought that we could share our plan
B scenario for a live work called 20
Revolutions that was due to tour
nationally and internationally this
year as a practical example of how
we are attempting to adapt. >> KELLI
McCLUSKEY: Mmm. So, I think it's
fair to say that the magic button
for quickly and efficiently
transitioning our participatory
performance practice online isn't
there. We've looked for it and can
confidently report back that it
doesn't exist. There is no magic
digital fix for us. Not in this
reality or on our desktops, which
has been, you know, a bit
frustrating. But ultimately, I think
that we felt as though we didn't
really want to change who we are and
what we do. But the way that we do
things and the forms that they take
have always been a bit slippery and
open for experimentation. So, at the
end of the day, we decided the best
things we could do was to be ready
with work that can be scaled for
audiences of one, or 10, or 100, in
a physical space to come back to for
this year, at least. And also to
test out some collective sharing
presentation models which we'll talk
about later. We've also used this
lockdown time to continue to ask
ourselves questions about our
audiences. What will it feel like
for them coming to experience
participatory work now? What could
be some of their challenges? What
are we asking of them? And what are
they getting in return? Because I
guess the way that we look at it is
that, when you willingly participate
in something, you're investing in
it. You're expending emotional,
sometimes physical energy, and
contributing to its trajectory with
others alongside others. And I
think, for us at least, we want that
investment in participating to
matter. Even if it's in a tiny way -
you carry that experience with you,
and we earn your trust during that
process. And for us, that's a big
part of the social contract with
participatory work. >> STEVE BULL:
So, for future audiences coming
out of a global pandemic that
travels through breath, surfaces and
physical contact, what happens to
that trust? How big will the
insecurities be around hygiene,
physical proximity, intimacy? Even
though we're seeing people grossed
out watching pre-COVID TV now, where
people share food, shake hands, or
God forbid, someone sneezes - I
don't think that will go away
quickly. We could do a quick test to
see what you think. Are you ready?
OK... OK. Will something as simple
and intimate as that - a kiss - be
too much? >> KELLI McCLUSKEY: I
liked it! >> STEVE BULL: Sorry about
that. Also in terms of
future-proofing - what about
practical things like insurance? Can
we guarantee audience health and
safety? And if we don't, then what?
Are as audience members, are you now
expected to take your own health
into your hands in order to attend a
show? That's a big ask. >> KELLI
McCLUSKEY: So, what does the future
of participatory performance look
like? I don't know...! (LAUGHS) But
I guess we were thinking about this
and wondering - do we have to really
bend the wheel or jump forwards into
the cult of the new? Or should we
actually be looking backwards and
remind ourselves that there are
heaps of examples of artworks that
have already creatively
problem-solved physical proximity,
spatial concerns, telematics,
networking, group-based experiences
in ways that we can learn from now?
We've got a few WA-based examples
that sprang to mind for us when we
started to actually think about the
pandemic restrictions as actual
artwork provocations. So we will
play, I think, a little slideshow
now of some artworks that sprang to
mind when we thought about the
pandemic restrictions. So here we
go. 1.5m apart - the image we're
seeing is of a woman in a fluoro
vest with headphones on, and she's
holding a tree trunk in the palm of
her hand. This is an artwork by a
WA-based artist called Mike Bianco,
and it's called The Trees Of St
George Square. It was made for
Proximity Festival in 2017. It's a
part-live performance, part-audio
guide. And this work looks at the
various histories of plants in the
area, and how they've been
manipulated and controlled by human
desires. And as an audience, you
attend to the work one at a time,
and you roam around a predetermined
route in public. Behind the safety
of a protective screen - we've all
seen lots of these in retail spaces
and chemists and so on. The slide
that we're looking at, though, is
from inside a parked car at
night-time with two audience members
seated in the vehicle looking over a
multiple-choice game, called How To
Match The Kerbside Coup To The Dog
Breed. This is from an artwork we
made back in 2007 called Inform.
It's a mobile performance with
transit radio broadcast through your
cast studio that took place in the
Perth suburbs. Audiences were
invited to follow a fictional,
militant Neighbourhood Watch group
in their cars as they attempt to
conduct suburban surveillance on
antisocial behaviour in the 'burbs.
Staying close to home - another
thing that we've been doing. The
slide that we're looking at is a
close-up of a hand holding some
edible berries. This is an artwork
called Eat The City by WA-based
practitioners Janet Carter and
Elizabeth Pedler as part of the
Spaced: Know Thy Neighbour
commission from last year, I think.
This work looks at food and
knowledge-sharing in the City of
Perth as a series of guided tours
encouraging audiences to discover
wild and free food in their own
neighbourhoods. Download the app -
so this isn't an artwork, as we're
kind of cheating it a little bit
here. We're not talking about the
government app, either. But we've
really wanted to talk about the free
and existing mobile-phone tools that
have been hijacked for other uses in
order to connect people together.
So, free apps like FireChat and
Bridgify have been used by
pro-democracy protesters in Hong
Kong as a means to circumnavigate
Chinese telecom interception. And
these are known as "mesh networks"
that can send messages via Bluetooth
without any cell phone connection.
So, data zips non-hierarchically
from one phone to another based on a
physical distance of around 60m. And
the more people that have the app,
the more the network grows, the
further the messages can travel. The
image that we're looking at is of a
female street protester in Hong Kong
looking at her phone. I guess we've
been talking about how amazing it
would be to have some kind of
mesh-networked performance that
spreads, like a... well, like a
virus...! (LAUGHS) Next up, we've
got - follow the instructions. Lots
of instructions that we've been
asked to follow since the pandemic.
But there's also lots of
instruction-based artworks where the
original makers have handed over
their work to other artists to play
with so that they can undertake a
more meaningful, perhaps,
on-the-ground
iteration of it in their own
country, region or city. And the
work that sprang to mind for us was
Do It, which is a curatorial concept
created by Hans Ulrich Obrist, a
curator, back in 1993. For those who
don't know the Do It concept, it's a
collected set of instructions from
some of the greatest figures in
contemporary art like Douglas
Copeland, Yoko Ono, Ai Weiwei, John
Cage, Philip Glass - they're there
for anyone to follow as a sort of
DIY-your-own-artwork. The slide
we're showing, to bring it back to
WA, is of the exhibition catalogue
from the Perth edition that took
place at Perth Festival back in
2001, where 15 local artists were
selected to interpret and reinvent
instructions from famous
international artists, and then
exhibit the results alongside the
original instructions. What have we
got next? >> STEVE BULL: Right, so
this brings us to where we are now
and what we can learn from the past.
So if we are facilitating audience
experiences in our work, does it
always have to be us doing that job,
or can we share that task and create
with supports the do we physically
have to be there? Is instead of
getting locked into a negative
mindset about restrictions and
barriers, and what we can't do, can
we look at it in a liberating sort
of way? Presenting without
increasing our carbon footprint?
Creating without excessive
consumption or fear of contagion?
Making across borders without having
to quarantine for 14 days in your
host city, then another 14 days on
returning home? In 2014, Arts House
in Melbourne, inspiringly, began to
explore this possibility. Working
with Cambridge Junction in the UK to
present an event titled Going
Nowhere, featuring four
international exchange projects,
including One Step At A Time like
this collaborating from Melbourne,
with Helen Cole and Alex Bradley in
Bristol, in an intimate,
participatory piece called Nowhere.
And Sarah Rodigari collaborating
with Joshua Sofaer on a performance
lecture called out Reach Out Touch
Faith. These works were presented in
Melbourne and in Cambridge with no
artists travelling. Now, the slide
we're showing here is a screengrab
from the Going Nowhere website
displaying thumbnail pictures of key
events in the program, including the
work by Sarah and Joshua. The
amazing Anne Harrowing-Jones, Art
House's creative producer at the
time, was quoted as saying, "It's a
bit of a rehearsal for what might be
in the future. Often we associate
climate change with behaviours that
we have to change and sacrifices
that we have to make. Change is
necessary, but the potential is
really liberating to do things in a
different way." >> KELLI McCLUSKEY:
Mmm. I love that. So I guess we were
thinking - perhaps now is the time
to revisit, adapt and explore ideas
around staying put as a plan B,
without making it feel as though -
excuse me - as though we, or our
audiences, are missing out somehow.
I think, you know, what we were
thinking about is that making work
in the public realm actually does
equip you with pretty good
strategising techniques. Because
nothing really ever goes according
to plan, and each performance is
different in its own way on the
streets at night, as there is just
such a high level of
unpredictability. So, planning for
unexpected changes or disruptions is
actually part of the process. So it
was really good for us to think
about that in relation to where
we're headed. The work that we
wanted to talk about is - we're
thinking about our plan B, called
Tiny Revolutions, which - we're
still in the process of working out
a plan B and a plan C, actually -
different presentation scenarios
based on a whole host of travel
restrictions and audience capacity
limitations still being in place and
at different levels in different
cities as we emerge from the
pandemic. We're not going to talk
about it. We thought we'd play a
little video clip of it just to give
some context of what the work's
about. It's a 3-minute video clip
with a voiceover and some text on
screen. >> KELLI McCLUSKEY: Welcome
to Tiny Revolutions. Tiny
Revolutions is a think-and-do tank
where we creatively respond to some
of the most epic challenges that are
currently facing humanity. From
climate crisis, to rapid tech
advancement, minority rights to the
patriarchy, Tiny Revolutions aims to
take the overwhelming scale and
urgency of these issues and
transform them into bite-sized
actions. It's important to remember
that once a rebel starts, we have
exactly 30 minutes to discuss,
debate, devise and create a tiny
revolution based on one individual's
mission. I would like us to honour
that submission, so if we could
collectively take the pledge for
Tiny Revolutions together, that
would be great. I invite you all to
put your little pinkies... We hereby
commit to tackling an overwhelming
issue. >> ALL: We hereby commit to
tackling an overwhelming issue. >>
KELLI McCLUSKEY: And we'll do our
best to transform that fear and
anxiety. >> ALL: And we'll do our
best to transform that fear and
anxiety. >> KELLI McCLUSKEY: Into a
bite-sized action that can be
carried out in the public realm. >>
ALL: Into a bite-sized action that
can be carried out in the public
realm. >> KELLI McCLUSKEY: Thank
you. >> STEVE BULL: Next up, we have
Claire's Tiny Sabotage, dealing with
the issue of population growth.
Claire had a general concern that
humans were the leading cause of
most of the world's problems at the
moment. And she questioned whether
the world was better off without
people on it. So, what we're going
to do - we're setting up a fake
parking space down in the City of
Perth's Council House. It's a
parking space for a new council
member. It's the Minister for
Population Degrowth. >> My top three
tax-saving tips No. 1 - big family.
Set up a family trust with lots of
beneficiaries. ... ... ... ... ...
>> Just out of interest, they
wouldn't be interested in displaying
the native Australian things? Why is
that, do you think? >> I am
delighted to announce that all
politicians will be receiving the
minimum wage for the next month,
effective immediately. >> # A is for
April # B is for biomass done by the
masses # C is for... >> Threatened
with massive debt run up by
political hacks who dig themselves
out by unleashing rampant tax... >>
I think it's passed unanimously...
(MUSIC PLAYS) >> I carry a plant. I
carry it with my heart. >> I carry
your plant... >> KELLI McCLUSKEY:
So, are we back on? >> STEVE BULL: I
don't know. Are we? Yeah, we are. >>
KELLI McCLUSKEY: OK, good. So that
was some of the Tiny Revolutions' -
I think we did 50-odd - in Perth for
the first iteration of Tiny
Revolutions that PICA supported
last year. Our plan A for Tiny
Revolutions was actively sending a
touring team of two pvi artists and
a producer teaming up with two local
artists on the ground to collaborate
in the thinking and the doing sides
of it. We would also take our lawyer
with us, as a "lawyer-in-residence",
which we had for the very first
iteration of the work in Perth. You
know, this was actually an amazing
addition to the project, because he
provided us with legal insights,
local laws, and workarounds for
actions that could have potentially
involved litigations or defamation
cases, trespass or breach-of-privacy
concerns in the most enabling of
ways. So it wasn't about, you know,
"Here's what NOT to do" but more
about, "How can we legally do this
and get away with it?" Which was
great. So, yes, the submissions for
Tiny Revolutions would be open for a
limited time via the website. The
roundtable discussions that you saw
everyone sit around the table would
be held in an interior space, open
to the public, in a more formal
environment. Audiences could choose
to either participate with us in
discussions by taking a seat at the
table, or sit and watch a team of 10
people debate and create as many
tiny revolutions as we could in one
day. The tiny revolutions that were
developed around the table would
then be carried out by the team in
the public realm and documented via
video or stills. So that was plan A.
>> STEVE BULL: Yeah. So our plan B
for Tiny Revolutions is in response
to continued border closures and
quarantine restrictions. In plan B,
we don't fly. In this scenario,
we're sort of inspired by the Going
Nowhere collaborative exchange
model, and also the Do It exhibition
model of artwork instructions. We
look to collaborate and support a
group of artists in a presenting
city to partner with us and take
ownership of the work. With
production support from the host
venue, we would provide these
artists with an artwork manual and
remote artistic and legal support
pre-, during and post- the event. So
the roundtable brainstorming
sessions would still be open to the
public to watch or participate with
the on-the-ground team making and
then finally undertaking the tiny
actions all in their city with
remote guidance from us where
needed. This really feels like a
possible next step in how we present
this work this year, and hopefully
would start to expand our thinking
around collaborative processes in
the future. Our plan C for Tiny
Revolutions is to take the work more
into the digital realm and online,
with the unthink-tank sessions
hosted as a Zoom event, a webinar,
with international, local and
national guest speakers
contributing, and audiences watching
online in a durational event. In
this scenario, we would still look
to undertake tiny outcomes in the
public realm, document, and share
outcomes back online. >> KELLI
McCLUSKEY: Mmm. I think, as a model
for collective sharing and creative
camaraderie, we'd actually genuinely
be excited by the possibilities of
these scenarios. It's not bells and
whistles, tech-savvy - it's not
necessarily genre-busting, new and
shiny. But, you know, maybe more
importantly, it doesn't feel
second-best, either. And that's key,
I think. You know, to not think
about, you know, what we've lost out
on by switching to a plan B or plan
C - it's what the workers gained
from it, perhaps. I think we're
going to leave it there. That's what
we've got. Thank you. >> STEVE BULL:
Thank you. >> LAURA PIKE: Thanks,
Kelli. Thanks, Steve. What great
insight into your practice and the
way that you are thinking about your
work and the future and what this
all means. I guess I'm interested in
what a plan C looks like, or a D, or
an E... (LAUGHTER The possibilities
are endless. If you have a question
for Kelli or Steve, can you please
share it in the Q&A section so that
we can get to them? I know I have
seen a couple of questions in the
chat that are actually very specific
about the app and what it's called
and can you download it...? Can you
give us a bit more information about
that? >> KELLI McCLUSKEY: Yeah,
there's a couple. There's one that's
called FireChat, and the other one's
called Bridgify. They're free to
download. >> STEVE BULL: Yeah, and
available for Android and
iPhone/iOS. Definitely worth
checking out. The more people that
use it, the more it's useful. The
more connected you can be without
using a phone provider. >> LAURA
PIKE: OK. Cool. And we've also got
another question here about
audiences. I know that audiences are
kind of central to the work that you
make and how and why you make it. I
guess I'm interested - we're
interested - in what you think our
audience want to see work about.
What do you think they're looking
for and they need at this time? >>
KELLI McCLUSKEY: Yeah, we've had so
many discussions about this and, I
mean, Steve mentioned the initial
trepidation around kind of physical
proximity and touch and - I think we
kind of swing both ways. It's like,
will audiences be interested in some
kind of form of escapism and
actually just shutting off from the
clusterfuck of reality at the
moment? Or, I guess, what we're more
interested in is - is ways in which
we can kind of activate positive
social change. So, you know, we see
that it's become so apparent - it
really does feel like we've reached
a tipping point in society at the
moment. And so, are there ways in
which we can utilise artwork as a
vehicle to explore positive social
change? I think that's where our
heads have gone. >> LAURA PIKE: And
I guess, further to that - and this
has come through on the chat, and I
guess it's kind of related to that -
but what does that look like for
ticketing and for - like, you know,
how is this going to operate in the
ecology that we have? >> KELLI
McCLUSKEY: Yeah, the monetised...
Look, if it was up to us, everything
would be free...! (LAUGHS) Um, what
does it look like? I don't know.
What do you think it looks like? >>
STEVE BULL: I'm not quite sure - are
you referring to kind of like a
contactless transaction or how
people are filtered into a
theatre...? >> LAURA PIKE: Maybe -
or maybe the monetisation. So, like,
if they're kind of doing this
isolation participatory work, and
you're not going to a venue, as
such, or it's not part of a festival
in that sense... Yeah. >> STEVE
BULL: Yeah. Yeah. It would be great
if it continues to be free, to be
honest. >> KELLI McCLUSKEY: I don't
know - I've said that, and now I'm
thinking about it going, "No, we
shouldn't be giving our work away
for free at all." Because there I
think there's such a lack of value
of arts in general, particularly in
Australian society, that we should
be looking at ways in which we can
earn income from our creative
products. So I think that very much
needs to be front and centre in our
thinking. I don't have the answers.
But there's - I don't have the
answers for that. I'd be really
interested to know how people feel
about that, though. >> LAURA PIKE:
Yeah. Maybe everyone can share their
thoughts with us in the chat. I
think that that would be great.
There's an argument for both. >>
KELLI McCLUSKEY: Mmm. >> LAURA PIKE:
It's the questions again... There is
a question that's come here through
from Adam, who asks: "How do you
think the rigorous skills in holding
and guiding audiences through
participation and emerging in
performance could be used more by
artists, makers and companies? These
fields seem much-needed in the
current context." >> KELLI
McCLUSKEY: Yeah. For us, when we
start to develop new work and come
up with new ideas, we'll always
situate the audience front and
centre. When we're starting to
devise and plan, we're thinking
about the experience for the
audience. So, in a way, it's in
service to the audience. It's not
about "This is the idea and I'm
plonking it in front of someone to
experience" and I'm making maybe
lots of assumptions how you're going
to engage with it. It's actually
"I'm an audience member, I'm walking
in the door. What am I feeling? What
am I seeing? What's being asked of
me? What am I getting from it?" It's
always pulling it back into the
audience "journey" that's front and
centre. And I think that's where the
rigour comes from. Because then you
start to look at the way in which
you're crafting that experience from
the perspective of the audience. So,
yeah. >> STEVE BULL: Yeah. When
we're making a work, we're
constantly factoring in periods
where we invite audiences in to try
out and we get feedback and I think
that, you know, there's other art
mediums - it's certainly something
that would be interesting to try and
factor in once you're making an
artwork, be it in a different -
maybe in a more visual art medium,
where, you know, you are
spur-reading - "Are you getting from
this at the moment, in an incomplete
and in-progress work?" That's really
interesting. >> KELLI McCLUSKEY:
Yeah. It is really hard to rehearse
participatory work. Because, you
know, there are testing phases -
particularly if you're working with,
you know, mobile phone-based apps,
which we have done. And, you know,
you're testing the technology with
the audience and you're looking at
the usability and the interface and
how people are engaging and using
it, you're looking for bugs in the
tech... But rehearsal is really
hard, because it's always going to
be different. And particularly when
I think we were saying earlier when
things are situated in the public
realm as well, that there's just
this whole other layer of, you know,
second-/third-tier members of the
public who haven't signed on for
this experience and are wondering
what the hell's going on and want to
ask questions and interrupt what
you're doing, and you have to take
that into account. And that's a
whole other layer of
unpredictability as well. >> STEVE
BULL: Which is a positive as well.
It's a good thing. Again, we try and
factor in their understanding as
well of what might be their scene.
So that could be that we have little
cards to hand out to passers-by if
they want further information. Or
they're just unwittingly, you know,
part of the work. In which it's a
fleeting moment... Yeah. >> KELLI
McCLUSKEY: Mmm. >> STEVE BULL: I
don't know if that's any help...! >>
LAURA PIKE: Yeah, and where the
boundaries between work and
audience, and audience and
public...? >> KELLI McCLUSKEY: I
love that it's slippery. I love the
not knowing. Some of the best
feedback we've had from audiences
are things that we didn't plan. "You
know when that police car - how did
you arrange for that to happen, and
that security guard, and when
that...?" And it's like, "We didn't
do that, but you read that into work
- that's great! >> LAURA PIKE:
Totally. Thank you so much,
everybody. There's some really great
ideas coming through in the chat
about the monetisation, so, thank
you for sharing that. We might ask
one last question. Again, I don't
imagine you'll have the answer for
it, but it might be a good place to
leave it. Patty asks - "Could you
tell us about plan C?" >> KELLI
McCLUSKEY: (LAUGHS) Plan C for Tiny
Revolutions...? It's still really
vague, but you touched on it,
Steve... >> STEVE BULL: Yeah, we
haven't invested that much time in
plan C. Um, but - yes, it would be
interesting. I think the idea of
potentially a more global rather
than a local version of the work - I
think that we've been looking very -
it's in a city, but the idea of a
digital version of Tiny Revolutions
really opens up the audience base
and the potential speakers and
guests that we could have around the
table, the thinkers, the leaders
that we could have, would be really
inspiring. >> KELLI McCLUSKEY: Yay.
And how amazing would it be to have
a Naomi Klein and Scott Ludlams and
all of these amazing thinkers
actually contributing to developing
little Tiny Revolutions with us.
That's really - that's what we were
saying about not feeling
second-best. It opens up expanded
opportunities for it. So, yeah. >>
LAURA PIKE: Yeah - forcing us to
think differently about - yeah,
what's possible. Thank you, Kelli
and Steve. I feel so invigorated by
having this conversation with you
today and hearing how you work and
what you're doing. So thank you so
much for your time. I hope
everyone's enjoyed the session and
gotten something out of it. If we
didn't get to your question and you
still have some questions you'd like
answered, you can always email us at
the
leadershipprogram@australiacouncil.-
gov.au address, and we can see what
we can do. Before we wrap up today,
I'm just going to share with you the
plan for next week. We have two
sessions on next week, and we also -
later today at 2:00pm Sydney time is
the First Nations Roundtable. This
week, it's focusing on youth
culture. It's hosted by Lee-Ann
Buckskin and Wesley Enoch, and it
happens every Friday at 2:00pm, and
everybody is welcome. So I encourage
you to come along if you haven't
already. Next week, we have two
sessions - on Wednesday, we have
Mark Yettica-Paulson, hosting a
session on intercultural working. On
Friday, we've got Copyright 101 with
Suzanne Derry from the Arts Law
Centre of Australia. If you haven't,
you can register for those sessions
on our website, as well as the new
sessions, as I mentioned, that are
available up there. I think that
that's it for today. Again, Kelli
and Steve, thank you so much. What a
great way to end the week. >> KELLI
McCLUSKEY: Thank you, guys. >> STEVE
BULL: Thank you. >> LAURA PIKE: I
really appreciate your session and
the time you've spent with us today.
So, thank you, and thanks, everyone,
for joining us. Have an excellent
weekend, and we'll see you next
week. >> KELLI McCLUSKEY: Thanks,
everyone! >> STEVE BULL: Bye. Thank
you for using Red Bee Media's Live
Remote Broadcasting Service.
