Joe Devlin: Hi, folks, and
welcome to Changing Minds, a new
webinar series that uses
psychology and neuroscience to
better understand human
behavior. My name is Joe Devlin,
and I'm a professor of cognitive
neuroscience at UCL. I'll be
hosting this series. Because
it's a new program, I wanted to
take a moment to just explain
the format. Each week we'll
explore the behavioral science
behind some of the most pressing
issues of the day, panic buying,
social distancing, dealing with
uncertainty, and today's topic
working from home. Each week,
I'll be joined by an expert who
will share their insights and
top tips. We want the program to
be as interactive as possible.
So I encourage everyone to share
your questions on the q&a board.
We'll try to get to as many as
possible. We really value your
input. So please do share those
questions. Let's get started.
With me today is Anna Cox,
Professor of human computer
interaction and Vice Dean of
equality, diversity and
inclusion at UCL. Welcome to
Changing Minds, Anna. Oh, no, I
still don't have sound.
Anna Cox: Okay, that's me. It's
fine. Right?
Joe Devlin: Okay, fantastic.
Well, given that this is our
first go, we're gonna assume
that there'll be some technical
gremlins and I'll figure things
out as we go. Well, as I say,
welcome to the changing minds
Anna glad to have you.
Anna Cox: Thanks it's good to be
here.
Joe Devlin: Today, we'll be
discussing how to make the best
of working from home a situation
we all suddenly find ourselves
in. And I'd like to begin by
asking you about your experience
Anna. What's working at home
been like for you?
Anna Cox: Okay, so probably for
the last 15 or so years I've
worked at home at least one day
a week. And ordinarily, I work
at home a couple of days a week.
And I find it pretty easy to do.
And I've got, you know, space at
home in which to work. And, and
normally there's no one else
here. So, you know, it's like my
own world. And but now of
course, it's really different.
Because at the moment, I have my
partner at home working, who's
also an academic. And I have two
children, a teenager and a
tween.
Joe Devlin: Wow. So it sounds
like it's pretty busy house than
I imagine.
Anna Cox: Yeah, so we've, we've
managed to make space for
everyone to have some desk
space. But, and that works
really well, when, when
everyone's doing silent work, I
suppose. But and then for them,
you know, for a lot of the time,
that's the way it is. So The the
two children are both being sent
work from school. And the one
who's at secondary school is
following the normal school
timetable. And has some live
lessons which are quite
interesting because I wouldn't
know it was a live lesson until
he's asked by a teacher to say
something and then all of a
sudden, I hear this little voice
going over my shoulder. And, but
of course, when you know, I'm
doing this or having one of a
million Skype or zoom meetings,
and it's really different than
so we can't all be in the same
room if we're trying to do that.
So we're having to use our space
really flexibly.
Joe Devlin: Yeah, that sounds
very much like our experience in
our house. Although I don't
normally work from home. I'm
learning to love it. And today,
I hope to learn to love it even
a little bit more. One of the
things you mentioned is actually
my experience too, right is that
I have have this massive
increase in different types of
online messaging, Skype, zoom,
FaceTime, you name it. Do you
have any advice on how we should
best try to deal with these?
Anna Cox: Well, I think one
strategy that's worked really
well for me, in terms of
organizing myself ordinarily for
working at home, is that I tend
to keep all my meetings on the
days I'm in the office so that
the days I'm at home, I can do
focused work. And I even think
about if I'm at home for two
days, I might think about those
two days in quite different
ways. One when I might try
really to do research type work
and one when I'm doing has
teaching and admin work. So I
think one of the things that
I've certainly experienced over
the past couple of weeks whilst
we've all been working at home,
and and that has, it's not just
the fact we're working at home,
but we're all dealing with a
whole load of new work, having
to you know, change the way we
do things and but academics move
our teaching online. And I'm
sure for people in other
professions, they're also doing
new things, new jobs. That means
more meetings. And so my
meetings are now sprinkled
throughout the week and having
that boundary between my focus
work days and my meeting days is
much harder for me to have that
right at the moment, but it's
definitely something that I want
to try to put back in place, I
guess, over the coming few
weeks. And it kind of relates a
bit to a study we did quite a
few years ago where we were
looking at people and how best
to manage their email. Because
email is definitely one of those
things that can spread
throughout your entire day. And
we conducted a study where we
asked people to try to limit how
often they interacted with their
email. So we had some people who
were in our control group just
did, they normally did. We had
some, we had some people who we
asked them to do to try and
limit their email to just once a
day. And first of all, we
discovered people found that
really hard to do. So this was
like a field study, right? So
we're trying to do this in real
life. And it's a difficult
strategy for people to adopt
straightaway. And, but what we
did found was they were
successful in reducing the
number of times they visited
their inbox, and also, quite
interestingly, the amount of
time they spent in their inbox.
So we saw that by reducing the
number of times you visit, you
actually become more efficient
with the way that you deal with
your email. And this has an an
extra bonus if you like so the
fewer times that you interrupt
yourself by going to look at
your email, and the fewer times
you have to return back to your
primary task that you're
supposed to be working on. We
know that every time you
interrupt yourself and you come
back, there's a time cost to
trying to get back into where
you were. So if you minimize the
number of times you interrupt
yourself, you're going to not
only be more efficient dealing
with email, but also be more
efficient at getting on with
your final task.
Joe Devlin: Fantastic. So if you
can limit that kind of
multitasking, which probably we
don't think of email that way a
lot. But it is right, you're
switching from what you're doing
to something else, then you're
going to improve productivity
across the board.
Anna Cox: Yeah. And so we would
expect that kind of finding to
generalize to other types of
tasks switching as well. So
we've done lots of studies
looking at task switching, both
in the lab and in the field, and
And yeah, we just we see the
same picture across lots of
different scenarios that the
fewer times you are interrupted
or you self interrupt the
better.
Joe Devlin: Fantastic. All
right. And I assume that applies
just as much to meetings, right?
Anna Cox: Yeah, exactly. So
that's why I think that if you
can try to get all your meetings
on one day, and not have them
scattered throughout your week,
it gives you you know, some
clear time then to think about
what you're going to do on those
other days and have those sort
of like, really have time to
concentrate on the stuff that
you feel is important.
Joe Devlin: Yeah, that that
makes a ton of sense. And that
sort of feels like my
experience, too. I wanted to ask
you about another recent study
that you ran. So you had a study
that you looked at working from
home in crowd workers and you
gained some, you know, insight,
again, in this field study about
what you know, what their
insights are, and I wondered if
you could tell us about that. I
wonder if you wouldn't mind
starting by just explaining what
is a crowd worker.
Anna Cox: Sure. So um, there are
lots of different crowd workers.
And but one that the people we
were looking forward to looking
at were people who worked on a
particular platform called
Amazon Mechanical Turk. And
these people are paid to do
small bits of work. Lots of
their work involves labeling
photographs. And or so for
example, when Amazon want to put
on a new product, and they have
lots of images of their of their
products that they want on their
website, and they basically got
humans to do this labeling task
is something you can make into a
really tiny task. And then you
can pay people a really tiny
amount of money to do it. And
and these People also do other
types of tasks. So they might be
transcribing from scanned
documents or filling out
questionnaires. And in fact, a
lot of psychology studies are
done using these kind of online
work platforms. And but we
conducted a study where we asked
people to fill out a
questionnaire telling us about
their work environment. We, we
gave them a series of different
questionnaires in our survey,
including questionnaires that
help us understand how they
manage their work life
boundaries, how stressed they
feel about their work, and so
on. And since then, we've also
done further studies where we
have been asked, we've asked
people to, to take a screen
recording of themselves working
so we can actually see what
they're doing when they're
working. And we found all sorts
of interesting things.
Particularly around the
challenges that they experience
in working at home. So lots of
these people work at home, not
all of them, some of them are
also doing another job. So for
example, imagine someone who
sits on the reception desk at a
building. And when they haven't
got people coming in and out,
they might sit there working on
Amazon Mechanical Turk as well.
And so, these people are often
switching between lots of in
between different tasks in that
kind of situation. And they are
also trying to keep an eye on
what other work is coming up. So
they're looking at kind of like
a stream of what jobs are coming
up so they can pick their next
one. So they're getting ready
for what what other job might
they do later. And when we
looked at what they did, and how
they managed everything, we saw
that as well as this sort of
multitasking thing that we saw
going on, there were all sorts
of other distractions they had
in their environment. And, and
the ones that you might imagine
everyone's experiencing now so
definitely people and pets,
definitely interrupt people. And
they're also digital
distractions. So people's email
popping up other things that
might, you know, they might get
an instant message from
somebody. And, and they also
talk to us about how they had to
work or all sorts of different
times of the day and some of the
challenges that created
Joe Devlin: Fantastic so it
sounds like it's a massive
multitasking problem. And, and
then there's also these boundary
issues that are going on not
just in terms of life intruding
in the form of your cat
attacking the keyboard, but
also, you know, working at
different times of the day to
perhaps avoid, you know, little
children and things like that.
Yeah, they have any you know,
tips and suggestions, things
That they found were, you know,
helpful in dealing with these
things?
Anna Cox: Yes, so I'm trying to,
I think some of the strategies
that they had for fitting the
fitting work and non work
together are kind of quite
useful for us to look at the
moment. And, and, and a lot of
that is about kind of scheduling
different sorts of activities at
different times, I think. So,
really small tasks. Like keeping
an eye on something keeping an
eye on your inbox, keeping an
eye on the flow of tasks that
are coming in, you might be able
to do whilst getting on with
something else. So maybe whilst
you know, stirring a pot on the
stove, or if your children are
busy playing with something,
perhaps you can go and quickly
have a look at something, but to
really get on and do a piece of
work over. That's going to take
up some time. Even if it 15 or
30 minutes, you you need to
schedule that. And try to
minimize the distractions that
are going to occur at the same
time. But I think one of the
things that was really obvious
with these people was that
because they're always on the
lookout for new work, it's quite
hard for them to really
disconnect from work. And this,
this challenge with
disconnecting is something that
people always people, lots of
people experience when they have
email on their phone. So if your
phone beeps and tells you you've
got another message, or just
have a look, and as soon as you
you're in there, you're now
looking at all of these other
things. And so you get this
situation where the boundary
between home and work becomes
really blurred. Like are you
having work time now or is this
home time and and thats
definitely something that not
only have we seen with these
people, but also in some of our
other studies that we've done
with both academic staff and
professional services staff at
UCL. So we've seen exactly the
same kinds of challenges
experienced by those people.
And, and we've been able to
learn from them some of the
things that work for creating
boundaries where you want to
have them and maintaining them.
So one thing is to, if you're
fortunate enough to have
multiple devices, then you might
think about keeping one device
for your work stuff, and another
device for your home stuff. So
whilst we're all at home at the
moment, and that might mean
doing something like taking work
email off your phone, so that
you're only going to look at it
when you sit down at your
computer. And you kind of use
the device to create this And to
separate these different parts
of your life. But there are you
can also use apps and accounts
for doing this. So if you want
to separate your work email from
your personal email, or your
work social media account from
your personal email, social
media account, then having
different apps, or even just
having separate accounts can
really help you to create those
different parts and, and keep
them separate from each other.
And we were interested to see
that people who have different
boundary management styles, so
there are some people who quite
like to blur the boundaries,
they don't mind that at all, and
other people who really like
things separate. So we were able
to see these differences there.
And we were interested to know
whether the practices of the
people who keep things separate
might be useful for the people
who are struggling with boundary
management. And we've run
workshops and also created some
digital resources for people to
learn how to implement these
strategies. And, and the studies
we have done so far have we've
used knowledge workers, junior
doctors working in London
hospitals, and also
undergraduate students. And
we've seen really positive
impacts of people adopting these
strategies, when we've done
measures of well being and
boundary management. So these
are definitely things that we
can learn to do and that we
could expect to have some
positive impact on how we're
feeling.
Joe Devlin: Yeah, that sounds
excellent. And really nice kind
of concrete suggestion in terms
of how to how to benefit. I'm
just wondering, I mean, a lot of
this is very digital focused,
and it's all about being
connected. Do you recommend to
people that they do like digital
detox
Anna Cox: Well, digital detoxes,
sort of like that phrase really
has a kind of negative
connotation, I think because I
think it is often put forward by
people that think that digital
is bad for you. And, and we see
this a lot in the newspapers and
so on telling us that we should
spend less time online. And I
think there's very little
evidence really, to suggest that
being online is bad. And that
and I think that what we can do,
though, is to think about the
different types of activity
we're doing. So one term we see
people talk about when they're
thinking about being online is
this notion of screen time. And
that doesn't really tell us
anything, right. If I'm on my
computer, I could be working. I
could be talking to my parents.
I could be watching Netflix,
right? So the amount of time I'm
on a screen doesn't really mean
anything. And I think actually,
we need to think more carefully
about the different types of
activity we're doing, and the
benefits we might be getting
from them. So we know that some
digital activities are really
immersive and engaging. And one
of the ones that I've spent
quite a lot of time looking at
is video gaming. So a classic
example of something that people
like to tell you is really bad
for you. And we've done a survey
study looking at the
relationship between time spent
playing video games and recovery
from work and see that people
who spend time playing video
games tend to have higher
recovery from work stress. So we
were interested to see whether
that was something we might be
able to maipulate. And both in a
lab study and a field study,
we've been able to show that if
you take time out to play video
games, you're much likely you're
much more likely to have a
positive recovery from work
related stress. So implementing
that into your daily schedule
might be a really good thing to
do.
Joe Devlin: So I can actually
tell my partner that that time
that I'm spending playing those
multi massive games, that's just
fine. It's actually good for me,
and it's good for my recovery
from work.
Anna Cox: Exactly. And, and
particularly, actually, if
you're playing with other
people, because then you're
getting this level of social
connection, which is really
important for us all right now,
because I've had to tell my
children that playing games is
good for them. And you know,
that does lead to some tricky
conversations.
Joe Devlin: You must be the most
popular mom, that's definitely
going to be the case and Okay,
well, as you know, um, you know,
our audience had been sharing
their questions as we've been
talking. And and I want to thank
everybody who's been who's been
sharing questions. I'd like to
just go to some of those if
that's okay. Is that alright
Anna? No. Yeah. So one of the
questions that came up early
here is, you know, is it the
case that some people enjoy
multitasking more than others?
Anna Cox: And there are dif
some, there is some evidence
that some people prefer to
multitask more than others. So
there is a and it is more of a
preference rather than a skill?
I think. So. But I think we can
we, it's one of those things
where we need to think quite
carefully about what we really
mean about multitasking because
really, we know that what we're
actually doing is switching from
one task to another. And, and we
have so much evidence that this
kind of switching is bad for
productivity that is even if
it's the kind of thing you like,
it's probably not a thing that
you really want to encourage
people to do.
Joe Devlin: And is there any
truth to this old idea that that
women are better multitaskers
than men?
Anna Cox: I don't think we have
any good evidence about that.
Joe Devlin: Fair enough. Okay,
Anna Cox: So no excuses.
Joe Devlin: Good. There's a
question here from Francis who
says, I use social media in my
work, but I find it addictive
and get drawn to it away from
more focused report writing any
practical suggestions, just
turning it off doesn't work. I
always turn it back on again.
Anna Cox: So I think, you know,
if you so if you're finding that
it's really easy just to switch
it back on, then there are apps
you can use and things that you
can install in your computer
will actually prevent you from
going on and, you know,
accessing that
often for a particular period of
time. Now that
can be useful for some People in
some situations. But again, it's
one of those things where it's
just not quite as easy as we
would hope it to be. Because if
you are a student, for example,
and you think, oh, even actually
someone working so often people
working, engaging groups on
social media, which is all about
their work, it might be where
they go and get advice about
something, and you've blocked
yourself from accessing it, then
actually, that causes your
problem right in the middle of
your work. So, you know, there
are a whole load of apps
available, you can go in use,
but sometimes I think you might
be better off to say, Okay, if I
keep that, if I keep access to
my social media, on my phone,
and then I'll put my phone a
little bit further away from me,
or maybe I'll leave it upstairs.
And that, that boundary, like
that extra effort you have to
make to go and get it means that
you You have to be sure that you
really want to engage in it. So
I think little tricks like that
can be really helpful.
Joe Devlin: Make sense? Nice
little life hacks. So, a good
question here that I really
like, you know, and they they've
asked, What do you suggest for
couples when one partner is
setting boundaries? And the
other is sort of mixing work and
home life together?
Anna Cox: Oh, it's difficult,
isn't it? Um, I think is it's
about you know, I'm, I feel a
bit cautious advising people of
what they should negotiate with
their partners, but I think it
is about that negotiation, isn't
it? Because sometimes, if you've
tried it, if you're trying to
disconnect from work, and the
person sitting next to on the
sofa is doing their work, and
you feel sort of dragged into
work or maybe a pressure that
you should be working. So
perhaps negotiating time in when
we will be working And time when
we went, might work but yeah,
that's really tricky one.
Joe Devlin: And it's interesting
in the sense that it speaks to
differences in the way people
see boundaries, right? Like for
me, I really like sharp
boundaries, and my partner is a
little bit more flexible than I
am. So I really resonate with
that question. And it's it does
become an interesting sort of
negotiation and communication
challenge between us to just
sort of make some plans that
that work there. Yeah. Oh, no,
no, I can use my digital video
games as a as an excuse. I'm
happier.
Anna Cox: Well, there you go.
Yeah.
Joe Devlin: Right. There's a
question from Theodora, who
says, you know, I'd love to
schedule my meetings for a
specific day, but I'm at the
mercy of others. Is there any
way to manage having lots of
meetings when you're at the
mercy of others like that?
Anna Cox: Um, yeah, but that
they are things that said there
are there are things you can do,
but it doesn't. It doesn't
always work for everybody. So
for example, one thing you could
do if you want to have some
focus time without meetings, is
to schedule the time in your
diary. So you've blocked it out.
So then no one else can meeting
in there. Now, if you work
somewhere where everyone has
access to a diary, you can't do
what I do, which is just put an
empty block in that time, right?
Because people will look at it
and think, Well, that doesn't
say anything. And they might try
and check your stuff over the
top. And so you know, you might
have to come up with a special
term that suggests you're
meeting someone who they don't
know or something. And but yeah,
just about trying to do that, or
if you're in a, depending on
what you know, how what your
team is like or what position
you have in that team, you might
be able to set up normal
practices within your work team
so that maybe we always say we
try not to have meetings on
Fridays or something like that.
Joe Devlin: There's a question
here from Ridu my apologies if I
didn't quite pronounce that
correctly saying, you know, just
having physical boundaries, so
separate places to work have any
impact on your productivity? And
if so, what happens if you
don't?
Anna Cox: Yeah, so certainly
having the physical boundary is
the thing that certainly in
recent times is very normal way
for people to work that they go
out to work and they come home.
Now, of course, within history
hasn't always been like that.
There always been people who
work from home. And right now, I
think the thing that is
challenging is that we have been
forced into this new situation
we're having to adapt to it. And
there have because people do
find these boundaries, often
useful. I think when you're
trying to adapt to it, you have
to realize that that's going to
take a bit of time and that you
need to find strategies to
manage it. So if your home is
big enough that you can have a
space that is just for work,
that might work really well.
People use their sheds, they use
cupboards, all of those sorts of
things. And if you can't do
that, but you still finding it
difficult, you know, seeing your
computer in the corner, you
still feel that this pull to
work, even things like putting
it in a drawer, covering it with
a blanket, all of those things
just to hide it away might be
really useful. So definitely
trying that physical boundary
thing in a in the confined space
at home might still work.
Joe Devlin: But I think we have
time for one more question.
There's one here from Elizabeth
who said, when we do all our
work virtually is there a risk
that we miss out on the
relationship building chat on
the way to the meeting room or
to the elevator? And if so,
what's the consequence?
Anna Cox: Wow, yeah, so I think
um, whilst digital is really
brilliant at some things. So we
wouldn't be able to do this
right without digital. It. And
it does get us really close to
face to face communication a lot
of the time. But there are
things that don't work quite as
well. So yes, we definitely miss
out on those water cooler
moments. And lots of people are
trying things at the moment like
having coffee together. And I
think that's the kind of thing
you can try and do. Or you can,
you can try it and schedule sort
of the walking time, I guess,
you know, between meetings, you
could try and schedule that and
and have catch ups with people.
And I think one of the things
that's really difficult with the
online meetings that we're
having is that we're often
switching from one to the other
really quickly. So this one ends
and then the next one is going
to start in five minutes and
trying to give yourself a bit of
breathing space, either to be on
your own for five minutes, or to
have a quick phone call before
your next meeting, you know,
might give us that kind of
connection with people.
Joe Devlin: That makes a ton of
sense. And I should say, you
know, my apologies if we didn
t get to your question, but sad
y we've run out of time. I
d really like to thank my gue
t Anna Cox for sharing he
 insights and information. I'v
 certainly learnt a lot and I
hope that others have to. Please
join us again next week when we
have Professor Nicola Raihani
here and she'll be speaking
about the onion of cooperation.
And I think I at least I'm very
curious to hear how cooperation
is like an onion. So I'm looking
forward to that. Thanks again 
nna we really appreciate it.
Anna Cox: It's been fun. Thanks
for having me.
Joe Devlin: My pleasure.
