CH: Let's be clear that Biden was 
selected by
by the Democratic oligarchic
elite, figures like Lloyd Blankfein, the
formerCEO of Goldman Sachs,
and others, made very public that if
Bernie Sanders
(to a lesser extent Warren, but
particularly Bernie Sanders) was the
nominee
they would vote for Trump. So the whole
"least worst" issue
only applies to me and you. It doesn't
apply to them.
And so they anointed
Joe Biden because Joe Biden
serves their interests in the same way
Trump does.
In that sense the the
political and economic system
is completely fixed. I want to add that
it's not a solution because
a continuation of the kinds of
policies the Democratic Party
has (after Clinton sold out to corporate
power) has imposed
on the American people is inevitably, and
I think history bears this out,
going to result in a fascist with brains.
A competent fascist.
RW: What do you see as positive going 
on? What hope is there that we can
find a way forward other than the
trails marked out by the Republicans
the Democrats and all of that?
CH: Well, the street protests.
And I think what has struck me about
these protests
triggered by the kind of
indiscriminate police murders
disproportionately targeting
people of color,
African-Americans in particular,
is that there's a sophistication. 
They're not being gaslighted by
Nancy Pelosi in a Kente scarf,
or police taking the knee, or Muriel Bowser, the mayor of Washington [D.C.]
painting in 35 foot tall letters "Black
Lives Matter" in front of the White House
at the same time she
calls for a $45 million increase
in the police budget and the building of 
a $500 million new jail.
They're not buying it. And that
kind of gaslighting by the elite, and in
particular by the Democratic Party,
isn't working. So, any hope comes from 
sustained mass civil disobedience,
the kind of uprisings (and
it's interconnected because
neoliberal economics is global) that
we've seen
around the world: Lebanon, Chile,
and everywhere else. That's where the
hope lies. And I think there is an
understanding, in my sense,
of those who are leading these movements, that they
grasp that these are systemic problems
that have to be addressed.
They're not reduced to the political
personalities of Donald Trump
or Joe Biden.
