
English: 
TAYA GRAHAM: The struggle for workers’ rights
has deep roots in this country, and it's easy
to forget the things we take for granted like
weekends and a 40 hour work week would not
exist without it.
As the movement to make $15 the national minimum
wage continues, history can and should inform
the present.
One figure of the past that is regaining renewed
attention is a woman who's outsized life continues
to have impact today.
Her name was Lucy Parsons and her integral
role in the labor movement is just one facet
of a remarkable life that spanned two different
centuries, and encompassed a variety of social
movements that changed the way we live today.
Born to a slave and into slavery, married
to a man involved in the Haymarket Bombing
and one of the most forceful voices for the
country's working class, Lucy Parsons was
a tireless advocate for labor.
Her incredible story and the meaning of her
legacy is now the subject of a new book, The

Serbian: 
TAJA GRAHAM: Borba za radnička prava 
ima duboke korene u ovoj zemlji i lako je
zaboraviti da stvari koje uzimamo zdravo za gotovo, poput vikenda i 40-časovne radne nedelje, ne bi
postojale bez nje.
Dok pokret za nacionalni minimalac od 15 dolara nastavlja sa borbom, istorija može i trebalo bi da
pouči sadašnjost.
Jedna ličnost iz prošlosti koja ponovo zaokuplja pažnju je žena čiji nesvakidašnji život nastavlja
da ostvaruje uticaj i danas.
Njeno ime je Lusi Parsons i njena integralna uloga u radničkom pokretu je samo jedan aspekt
izvanrednog života koji se protegao na dva veka, i obuhvatio mnoštvo društvenih pokreta
koji su promenili način na koji danas živimo.
Rodila ju je robinja i u ropstvo, udala se za čoveka koji je učestvovao u hejmarketškom bombaškom incidentu
i bio jedan od najsnažnijih glasova za 
radničku klasu ove zemlje, Lusi Parsons je bila
neumorni borac za raničku klasu.
Njena neverovatna priča i značenje njenog nasleđa 
sada je predmet nove knjige,

Serbian: 
Boginja anarhije, i da bismo razgovarali o ovoj knjizi i fascinantnom životu njene glavne junakinje
sa nama je profesorka Žaklin Džons.
Džons je profesorka istorije na fakultetu Templ pri Univerzitetu Ostin Teksas.
Profesorka Džons je autorka nekoliko knjiga, uključujući knjigu Užasna prevara: Mit o rasi
od kolonijalnog doba do Obamine Amerike, Rad ljubavi, rad jada: Crnkinje, Rad,
i Porodica - od ropstva do danas, i naravno, Boginja anarhije - o Lusi Parsons.
Među njenim akademskim nagradama je Bankroftova nagrada za američku istoriju a bila je i finalistkinja
u nominaciji za Pulicerovu nagradu u kategoriji američka istorija.
Profesorka Džons, puno vam hvala što ste sa nama.
ŽAKLIN DŽONS: Hvala vam što ste me pozvali.
TAJA GRAHAM: Za početak, za ljude koji nisu čuli za Lusi Parsons, ko je ona bila
i kako se uključila u radnički i anarhistički pokret?
ŽAKLIN DŽONS: Lusi Parsons je 1851. rodila robinja u Virdžiniji a
umrla je u Čikagu 1942.

English: 
Goddess of Anarchy, and to talk about the
book and the fascinating life of its subject
is professor Jacqueline Jones.
Jones is the LNC Temple chair of history at
the University of Austin Texas.
Professor Jones is the author of several books,
including A Dreadful Deceit: The Myth of Race
in the Colonial Era to Obama's America, Labor
of Labor, Labor of Sorrow: Black Women, Work,
and the Family From Slavery to the Present,
and of course, Goddess of Anarchy on Lucy
Parsons.
Her scholarly awards include the Bancroft
Prize in American History and she's a Pulitzer
Prize finalist in the category of American
History.
Professor Jones, thank you so much for joining
us.
JACQUELINE JONES: Thank you for having me.
TAYA GRAHAM: Just to start, for people who
don't know about Lucy Parsons, who was she
and how did she get involved in both the labor
and anarchist movements?
JACQUELINE JONES: Lucy Parsons was born in
1851 to an enslaved woman in Virginia and
she died in Chicago is 1942.

Serbian: 
Dakle, dugo je živela, život pun drame i nereda.
Ona se udala za Alberta Parsonsa, veterana konfederacije koji se obratio na republikansku politiku
odmah nakon građanskog rata i njih dvoje, nakon što su se venčali 1872, preselili su se u Čikago
gde je Lusi živela do smrti.
Albert Parsons je dobro poznat.
On je bio jedan od tzv. hejmarketških mučenika.
On je pogubljen u novembru 1887. zbog njegove navodne uloge u hejmarketškom bombaškom incidentu,
godinu dana pre toga. On nije bacio bombu koja je ubila sedam policajaca i ranila mnoge druge.
I ustvari, niko ni danas ne zna ko je zapravo bacio bombu. On je bio anarhista
i sa trojicom svojih drugova, on je pogubljen u novembru 1887.
TAJA GRAHAM: Baš sam htela da vas pitam, za one koji nisu upoznati sa hejmarketškim bombaškim

English: 
So, she lived a very long life, a life of
drama and tumult.
She married Albert Parsons, who was a Confederate
veteran who turned to Republican politics
right after the Civil War and the two of them,
after they got married in 1872, moved to Chicago
where Lucy lived the rest of her life.
Albert Parsons is well known.
He was one of the so-called Haymarket Martyrs.
He was executed in November of 1887 for his
alleged role in the Haymarket Bombing.
The year before, he did not throw the bomb
that killed seven policemen and wounded many
others.
And in fact, no one knows to this day who
the real bomb thrower was but he was an anarchist
and with three of his comrades, he was executed
in November of 1887.
TAYA GRAHAM: I was just going to ask you,
for those who aren't familiar with the Haymarket

English: 
Bombing, can you just give us a brief overview
and what its impact was on the labor movement?
JACQUELINE JONES: Yes.
On May 1st, 1886, many workers in Chicago
and throughout the country went on strike
to agitate for the eight hour day.
Albert Parsons was a speaker at that meeting.
It was a peaceful meeting but 80 police officers
arrived to shut the meeting down and as they
appeared in Haymarket Square,someone threw
a bomb from a nearby alley that killed several
policemen and wounded many other people.
The authorities, as I said, never found out
who threw the bomb but they quickly rounded
up those whom they considered the most radical
in Chicago, and those were anarchists.
Albert Parsons was a well known radical newspaper
editor.

Serbian: 
incidentom, možete li ukratko da nam kažete kakav je bio njegov uticaj na radnički pokret?
ŽAKLIN DŽONS: Da.
1. maja 1886. mnogi radnici u Čikagu i širom zemlje su štrajkovali
tražeći osmočasovno radno vreme.
Albert Parsons je govorio na tom mitingu.
Bio je to miroljubiv miting ali 80 policajaca je stiglo da rasturi miting i dok su
ulazili na Hejmarketški trg, neko je iz obližnjeg sokaka bacio bombu koja je ubila nekoliko
policajaca i ranila mnoge druge ljude.
Vlasti, kao što sam rekla, nikada nisu otkrile ko je bacio bombu ali su brže bolje pohvatali
one koje su smatrali za najradikalnije u Čikagu, a to su bili anarhisti.
Albert Parsons je bio dobro poznat kao radikalni urednik novina.

Serbian: 
On, zajedno sa još šest drugih muškaraca su bili optuženi za ubistvo i kovanje zavere.
Svi ti ljudi su imali neke veze sa štampom.
Oni su bili govornici, bili su urednici, bili su oratori i svi su takođe bili anarhisti.
Znači, zapravo je policija bila ta koja se okomila na anarhiste.
Kao što je jedna osoba rekla: "Nije se toliko sudilo anarhiji koliko se sudilo tim ljudima."
U svakom slučaju, Albert je obešen 11. novembra 1887. zajedno sa trojicom drugih muškaraca zbog ovog zločina.
Dok je bio u zatvoru od leta 1886. do vešanja, njegova žena, Lusi Parsons
krenula je drži govore širom zemlje.
Ona je putovala po čitavoj zemlji da bi skupila novac za odbranu svog muža
i ostalih.
I tokom ovog perioda ona je stekla nacionalni publicitet,

English: 
He, together with six other men were charged
with murder and conspiracy.
All of these men had something to do with
the press.
They were speakers, they were editors, they
were orators and they were all anarchists
as well.
So, it was really the police who were going
after the anarchists.
As one person said, "Anarchy wasn't on trial
as much as these men."
In any case, Albert was hanged on November
11th, 1887 along with three other men for
this crime.
While he was incarcerated from the summer
of 1886 until he was hanged, his wife, Lucy
Parsons, launched a national speaking tour.
She traveled all over the country in order
to raise money for the defense of her husband
and the others.
And it was during this period that she really
had national exposure.

Serbian: 
ona se predstavila nacionalnoj publici. Ona je izmislila priču o svom poreklu.
Tvrdila je da je ćerka roditelja koji su hispanskog i urođeničko američkog porekla, ali je brzo
postala veoma poznata, ozloglašena kod vlasti i vrlo moćan orator.
TAJA GRAHAM: Kao što ste rekli, ona je postala orator, ona odlazi na turneju koju joj je ostavio
njen muž nakon što je preminuo i ide širom zemlje i drži govore.
Dakle, u najmanju ruku ona je bila hrabra žena.
Ona se udala za belca, što je u to vreme, rekla bih, bilo nelegalno širom zemlje,
koji je obešen zbog svojih ...
ŽAKLIN DŽONS: Pa ...
TAJA GRAHAM: Oh, izvinjavam se.
Nastavite.
ŽAKLIN DŽONS: Dozvolite mi da vas na trenutak prekinem jer reklo bi se, da,
u Teksasu, da bi međurasni brak bio nelegalan ali zanimljivo je, republikanci su
bili na vlasti u državi nekih godinu dana, 1871. do 1872. i tokom tog perioda
Albert je pronašao sveštenika koji je bio spreman, mislim da mu je to verovatno bio prijatelj, gradonačenika
Vejkoa, Teksas, koji je bio spreman da ih venča.

English: 
She presented herself to a national audience,
she made up a story about her origins.
She claimed that she was the daughter of Hispanic
and Native American parents but she rapidly
became very well known, infamous to the authorities
as a very powerful orator.
TAYA GRAHAM: As you said, she becomes an orator,
she picks up and takes off the tour that her
husband left for her after he passed and goes
around the country speaking.
So, she was a bold woman to say the least.
She marries a white man, which I believe was
illegal throughout the country at the time,
who was hung for his-
JACQUELINE JONES: Well-
TAYA GRAHAM: Oh, I'm sorry.
Go ahead.
JACQUELINE JONES: Let me interrupt you there
for a moment because you would think, yes,
in Texas, interracial marriage would be illegal
but interestingly enough, the Republicans
held power in the state for about a year,
1871 to 1872, and it was during that period
that Albert found a willing officiant, I think
it was probably a friend of his, the mayor
of Waco, Texas, who was willing to perform
the marriage.

Serbian: 
Ustvari, oni su legalno venčani u Teksasu.
Dakle, za godinu dana, demokrate će preuzeti državu i po svoj prilici, njihov brak
nije bio zakonit u očima tih vlasti.
U svakom slučaju, oni su pobegli za Čikago.
TAJA GRAHAM: Vau, to je neverovatno.
Ona se udala za belca, što je bilo nelegalno širom zemlje.
Ona zatim postaje izuzetno popularna govornica.
Prosto, pitam se kako se jedna crnkinja snalazila u svim tim bolnim manevrima
i da ne samo preživi nego da zapravo ima uspeha?
ŽAKLIN DŽONS: Pa, njeno poreklo je bilo neodređeno.
Niste mogli da kažete na osnovu njenog izgleda kog je bila etniciteta i ona je to koristila.
Ona je bila svetle puti, i kao što sam rekla, preuzela je fiktivni identitet.
Mislim da je smatrala da će imati veći kredibilitet kod radnika belaca ako se predstavi

English: 
In fact, they were legally married in Texas.
Now, within a year, the Democrats would take
over the state and presumably, their marriage
was not lawful in the eyes of these authorities.
In any case, they fled to Chicago.
TAYA GRAHAM: Wow, that's amazing.
She marries a white man, which is illegal
throughout most of the country.
She goes on to become a wildly popular speaker.
I guess I'm just wondering how did a Black
woman navigate all these trenchant movements
and not just survive but she actually thrived?
JACQUELINE JONES: Well, her origins were indeterminate.
You couldn't really tell by looking at her
what ethnicity she was, and she took advantage
of that.
She was light skinned, and as I said, claimed
a fictional identity for herself.
I think she felt she'd have more credibility
among white workers if she presented herself

English: 
as Native American and Hispanic rather than
talking at all about her origins as an enslaved
person.
She had a lot to navigate, a woman.
She was a powerful speaker, she was very fashionable,
people commented on her elegant dress and
her eloquence as a speaker.
She was fierce, she pushed the boundaries
to the first amendment, she urged her followers
to learn the use of explosives rhetoric, very
violent, very uncompromising.
And I think she was probably happiest when
she was dodging the police who really tried
to silence her, not only in Chicago but throughout
the country wherever she spoke.
TAYA GRAHAM: I'm glad you touched on race
and how she created a fictional origin story
on her because she wrote that a Black man
was terrorized because he was poor an dependent,
not because of the color of his skin.

Serbian: 
kao američka urođenica i Hispanjolka umesto da se uopšte bavi pričom o svom poreklu kao porobljene osobe.
Ona je morala puno toga da uzme u obzir, kao žena.
Ona je bila moćna govornica, ona je vrlo otmena, ljudi su komentarisali njene elegantne haljine i
njenu elokvenciju kao govornice.
Ona je bila žestoka, ona je pomerala granice prvog amandmana, ona je pozivala svoje sledbenike
da nauče kako da koriste eksploziv, retorika joj je bila baš žestoka, beskompromisna.
I ja mislim da je ona bila najsrećnija kada je uspevala da izvrda policiji koja se svojski trudila
da je ućutka, ne samo u Čikagu već širom zemlje gde god da je govorila.
TAJA GRAHAM: Drago mi je što ste se dotakli rase i kako je kreirala fiktivnu priču o svom poreklu
jer ona je napisala da je crnkinja terorisana zato što je bila siromašna i zavisna,
a ne zbog njene boje kože.

Serbian: 
Pa, ona je verovala da ideja rase ne bi trebalo da bude deo anarhističke misli.
Da li je to zbog toga što se služila ranom marksističkom analizom, koja ne obraća pažnju na rasu i rod,
ili je ona videla nov oblik crnačkog oslobođenja?
ŽAKLIN DŽONS: To je dobro pitanje i teško je reći jer ona govori o rasi
vrlo retko, tako da ovde moramo da spojimo nekoliko elemenata.
Jedan je članak koji je napisala o crncima na jugu koji su ranjivi zato što su
siromašni i nemaju prava, i ne nužno zbog njihove boje kože.
Istovremeno, htela bih da naglasim da ona i Albert i njihovi drugovi nisu bili naklonjeni
crnačkim radnicima u Čikagu ili zapravo bilo gde drugo u zemlji.
Ona se svojski trudila da ne govori o radnicima crncima prilikom svog podstrekavanja radničke klase.

English: 
So, she believed that the idea of race should
not be part of anarchist thought.
Is this because she was using the early Marxist
analysis, which is race and gender blind or
was she seeing a new form of Black liberation?
JACQUELINE JONES: That's a good question and
it's hard to tell because she speaks of race
very infrequently, so we have to put together
several elements here.
One is that one article she wrote about Black
people in the south being vulnerable because
they're poor and they lack rights, and not
necessarily because of the color of their
skin.
At the same time, I should note that she and
Albert and their comrades were not sympathetic
to Black workers in Chicago or really anywhere
else in the country.
She took pains not to speak about Black workers
in her exhortations to the laboring classes.

English: 
She often, too, lumped, I think Black workers
with Chinese as a threat to white workers
and also as groups who would service strikebreakers
if they could.
So, there is this element of demonizing Black
workers.
Although, I will say she didn't say much at
all about the prejudice and the discrimination
faced by Black people in Chicago or anywhere
else in the country.
On the one hand, we can see her, yes, in that
Marxist tradition of saying that Black workers
are a subset of the laboring class.
Race is not really an issue here as much as
economic oppression but I think Lucy Parsons'
take on the Black community was more complicated
than that.
TAYA GRAHAM: Now, you mentioned that she was
constantly being monitored by the police.
How did that affect her and why were the police
so cutely interested in her?
JACQUELINE JONES: They feared her.

Serbian: 
Ona je često, takođe, trpala u isti koš, rekla bih, crnačke radnike sa Kinezima, kao pretnju radnicima belcima
i takođe kao grupe koje bi služile kao štrajkbreheri ako bi im se za to pružila prilika.
Dakle, postoji element demonizovanja crnačkih radnika.
Ipak, reći ću da ona uopšte nije puno rekla o predrasudama i diskriminaciji
sa kojima su se suočavali crnci i crnkinje u Čikagu ili bilo gde drugo u zemlji.
Sa jedne strane, mi možemo da vidimo da ona, da, u toj marksističkoj tradiciji kaže da su crnački radnici
podskup radničke klase.
Rasa ovde zapravo i nije pitanje koliko je to ekonomsko tlačenje, ali ja mislim da je Lusi Parsonsina
analiza crnačke zajednice bila komplikovanija od toga.
TAJA GRAHAM: Vi ste spomenuli da je ona konstantno bila nagledana od strane policije.
Kako je to uticalo na nju i zašto je policija bila tako naglašeno zainteresovana za nju?
ŽAKLIN DŽONS: Bojali su je se.

English: 
They feared her power over large, enthusiastic
audiences of workers.
As I said, her rhetoric was uncompromising,
she constantly denounced the judge and the
prosecutor in the Haymarket Trial.
She said she would like to run the guillotine
that chopped off the heads of the capitalist
tyrants.
She talked about dynamite and its use as the
leveling agent, making the playing field between
workers and capitalists more even.
Her rhetoric was very heated, very provocative
and she could hold a large audience in her
thrall for hours at a time, get the workers
all riled up.
She was really quite the speaker, and I will
say, she was more an orator than a labor organizer.

Serbian: 
Oni su se bojali njene moći nad velikom, entuzijastičnom publikom radnika.
Kao što sam rekla, njena retorika je bila beskompromisna, ona je konstantno optuživala sudiju i
tužioca u hejmarketškom procesu.
Ona je rekla da bi želela da upravlja giljotinom koja je seče glave kapitalističkih tirana.
Ona je govorila o dinamitu i njegovoj upotrebi kao činiocu uravnjivanja, čineći da teren na kom se nalaze
radnici i kapitalisti bude izjednačeniji.
Njena retorika je bila izrazito užarena, vrlo provokativna i ona je mogla da drži brojnu publiku
u šaci ponekad i satima, da potpuno razbesni radnike.
Ona je bila prilično dobra govornica, i rekla bih, više je bila oratorka nego radnička organizatorka.

English: 
She really did not have the patience to organize
workers in any real way.
She tried that for a while with a Working
Women's Union in Chicago and found meeting
with seamstresses and holding meetings in
the evening really was not her forte.
She was much happier to be in front of a large
crowd knowing that undercover detectives were
in the crowd, seeing the officers in their
blue uniforms surrounding the hall, waiting
to pounce on her and she enjoyed that.
It was, I think, exhilarating for her.
TAYA GRAHAM: It seems like she really did
enjoy the spotlight and it sounds like, in
essence, she was an anarchist.
What did being an anarchist mean then and
how did her beliefs inform her approach?
Basically, how did she become an anarchist?

Serbian: 
Ona stvarno nije imala strpljenja da organizuje radnike na bilo koji realan način.
Ona je to neko vreme pokušavala sa Unijom radnica u Čikagu i shvatila da joj sastanci
sa švaljama i održavanje večernjih sastanaka nije bila jača strana.
Ona je bila puno srećnija kada bi se našla ispred velike mase znajući da su tajni detektivi bili
u masi, videvši policajce u njihovim plavim uniformama kako opkoljavaju halu, čekajući
da se ustreme na nju i ona je uživala u tome.
To joj je bilo, rekla bih, stimulativno.
TAJA GRAHAM: Čini se da je uživala da bude pod reflektorima i zvuči kao da je,
u suštini, bila anarhistkinja.
Šta je značilo biti anarhistkinja tada i kako su njena uverenja uticala na način njenog delovanja?
Zapravo, kako je ona postala anarhistkinja?

Serbian: 
ŽAKLIN DŽONS: Ona i Albert su postali socijalisti ubrzo pošto su se preselili u Čikago 1873-e.
Oni su se naselili u nemačkoj imigrantskoj zajednici u Čikagu i to je bilo zaista, jezgro
radikalnog socijalizma u tadašnjem Čikagu.
Albert je učestvovao na izborima kao socijalistički kandidat.
Poznih 1870-ih, on je svaki put gubio, i tokom tog procesa, on je stvarno osetio da je glasanje
korumpirano, da sam politički proces nije delotvoran način da radnici
ostvare revoluciju, da preuzmu vlast i da svane novo doba.
Ranih 1880-ih, on i Lusi su se nazivali anarhistima.
Zapravo, njima je to značilo da su odbacili glasanje.
Oni mislili da glasanje nije vredno trošenja vremena i truda.
Oni su smatrali da je neophodan direktniji oblik akcije.

English: 
JACQUELINE JONES: She and Albert became socialists
soon after they moved to Chicago in 1873.
They settled in a German immigrant community
in Chicago and that was really, the heart
of radical socialism in Chicago at the time.
Albert ran for office on the socialist ticket.
In the late 1870s, he lost every time, and
the process, he really felt that the ballot
box was corrupt, that the political process
itself was not an effective means for workers
to affect the revolution, to seize power and
make a new day.
By the early 1880s, he and Lucy were calling
themselves anarchists.
Basically, what that meant to them was that
they rejected voting.
They did not think that voting was worth the
time or the effort.
They felt that a more direct form of action
was necessary.

English: 
I should point out here that there were several
strings of anarchism and the term was used
very loosely.
Lucy and Albert, I think their distinguishing
characteristic was their disdain for voting.
And also, I should note that they thought
that the building blocks of a good society
were small voluntary associations like trade
unions, that out of these voluntary associations
would come a new world of cooperation and
not competition.
There were other anarchists who believed in
what we might call radical individualism,
a radical kind of libertarianism.
There were others like Emma Goldman, who focused
on liberating the senses for cultural, artistic
and sexual purposes.
Johann Most was a German immigrant anarchist
who believed that a brief burst of violence

Serbian: 
Htela bih ovde da naglasim da je bilo nekoliko struja anarhizma i da je taj termin korišćen vrlo slobodno.
Lusi i Albert, mislim da je njihova distinktivna karakteristika bio njihov prezir prema glasanju.
I takođe, treba imati u vidu da su oni smatrali da su gradivni elementi dobrog društva
bila mala dobrovoljna udruženja poput sindikata, da će iz tih dobrovoljnih udruženja
proisteći nov svet saradnje a ne takmičenja.
Bilo je i drugih anarhista koji su verovali ono što bismo mogli nazvati radikalnim individualizmom,
radikalnom vrstom libertarijanizma.
Bilo je i drugih, poput Eme Goldman, koja se fokusirala na osloba]anje čula za kulturne, umetničke
i seksualne svrhe.
Johan Most je bio nemački imigrant anarhista koji je verovao da je kratkotrajna eksplozija nasilja

English: 
was necessary to get the working classes to
foment revolution.
So, there are different kinds of anarchists.
I think Lucy and Albert, as I said, called
themselves anarchists because they had withdrawn
from partisan politics.
And their views today strike us as very odd
in the sense that they denigrated not only
the right to vote but they denigrated all
American institutions, the Constitution, the
Congress, the president.
They were very much against the church in
any form, against organized religion.
This was kind of a European tradition of labor
organizing that the Parsons engaged in in
Chicago and it really was not very effective
among white workers, native born white workers.
TAYA GRAHAM: Even the more famous radical,
Mother Jones felt that the incendiary tactics

Serbian: 
bila neophodna da podstakne radničku klasu na revoluciju.
Dakle, postoje različite vrste anarhista.
I ja mislim da su se Lusi i Albert, kao što sam rekla, nazivali sebe anarhistima zato što su se povukli
iz partijske politike.
I njihova gledišta nam se danas čine prilično čudnim u smislu da su oni napadali ne samo
pravo glasa već su napadali sve američke institucije, ustav,
kongres, predsednika.
Oni su bili izrazito protiv crkve u bilo kom obliku, protiv organizovane religije.
To je bila određena vrsta evropske tradicije radničkog organizovanja u kojoj je Parsons bio uključen
u Čikagu i koja stvarno nije imala većeg uspeha među belačkim radnicima, belačkim radnicima rođenim u Americi.
TAJA GRAHAM: Čak i poznatija radikalka, Majka Džons je smatrala da subverzivna taktika

Serbian: 
anarhista/kinja poput Lusi Parsons radničkoj stvari nanosi više štete nego dobrog.
Da li mislite da progresivni pokret ima koristi od radikalne akcije ili mu ona nanosi štetu?
Na primer, ima nekih istoričara koji smatraju da štrajkovi glađu Alise Pol, i tzv. sit-inovi
i protesti za glasačka prava žena, da ona nije povukla te ekstremnije
poteze, da nije zatvarana, štrajkovala glađu, da umerenije sifražetkinje možda ne bi,
u poređenju sa njom, delovale prihvatljivije.
Da li nam je potrebna radikalna levica da bismo ostvarili reforme?
Da li su nam potrebni anarhisti?
ŽAKLIN DŽONS: Pa, da.
Mislim da su nam potrebni.
Poenta Majke Džons je, naravno, da Parsons, sa svojom radikalnom retorikom i svojim
disruptivnim taktikama, ona nije bila ljubiteljica uličnih marševa na kojima se osuđuju kapitalisti.
Ona je smatrala da su svojim postupcima, one ukaljale čitav radnički pokret i da su unazadile

English: 
of anarchists like Lucy Parsons were doing
more harm than good for the workers’ cause.
Do you think the progressive movement benefits
from radical action or suffers from it?
For example, there are some historians that
feel if Alice Paul's hunger strikes, and sit
ins and protests for the right for women to
vote, if she didn't do those more extreme
actions, becoming jailed, hunger strikes,
that the more moderate suffrages might not
have seemed reasonable by comparison.
Do we need to radical left in order to have
reform?
Do we need anarchists?
JACQUELINE JONES: Well, yes.
I think we do.
Mother Jones' point, of course, was that the
Parsons, with their radical rhetoric and their
disruptive tactics, she was not a fan of marches
through the street denouncing capitalists.
She felt that by their actions, they tainted
the whole labor movement and they set back

Serbian: 
borbu za radnička prava zato što su vlasti u svim radnicima, čak i u umerenim ili progresivnim,
radničkim liderima, videli beleg nasilja i anarhizma.
Svakako, zagovaranje nasilja, rušenje kapitalističkog sistema atentatima
i drugim oblicima ubistava i nereda, te taktike su osuđene na propast, da imaju bumerang efekt,
da isprovociraju kontra reakciju, očigledno.
Ali ona je govorila o novoj vrsti sveta, svetu, dakle, saradnje, a ne kapitalizma
ili takmičenja.
Svakako, ti glasovi su neophodni da bi nam pomogli da razmislimo o tome kako bismo mogli da napravimo bolji,
egalitarniji, pravedniji svet.
TAJA GRAHAM: Lusi Parsons je zagovarala upotrebu nasilja za rušenje sistema koji

English: 
the cause of Workers Rights because the authorities
saw in all workers, even in moderate or progressive
labor leaders, the taint of violence and anarchism.
Certainly advocating violence, the overthrow
of the capitalist system by assassination
and other forms of murder and mayhem, those
tactics are bound to fail, to backfire, to
provoke a counter reaction, obviously.
But she'd talked about a new kind of world,
a world, again, of cooperation, not capitalism
or competition.
Certainly, those voices are necessary to help
us to think how we might make a better, more
equal, more just world.
TAYA GRAHAM: Lucy Parson advocated for the
use of violence to overthrow the systems that

Serbian: 
perpetuiraju dohodovnu nejednakost, i danas, radikalnije grupe kao što je Antifa se
optužuju zbog upotrebe istih taktika.
Šta mislite da bi radikali/ke i revolucionari/ke mogli da nauče iz njenog života?
ŽAKLIN DŽONS: Pre svega, nju je vrlo teško klasifikovati.
Desno, levo, liberterka, kooperativna, impulsivna.
Teško ju je klasifikovati i ja smatram da nas njen život podseća da etikete ponekad mogu
biti kontraproduktivne, da mogu da sputaju naše shvatanje prave politike.
Ona se sasvim sigurno borila za radnike.
Istovremeno, ona se nije borila za sve radnike.
Njena nastojanja su bila fokusirana na Čikago, belačke radnike, uglavnom fabričke radnike i ona
nije imala univerzalni osećaj za ranjivost svih radnika, napoličara, domorodaca,

English: 
perpetuate income inequality, and today, more
radical leftist groups like Antifa are being
accused of the same tactics.
What do you think radicals and revolutionaries
can learn from her life?
JACQUELINE JONES: First of all, she's very
hard to pigeonhole.
Right, left, libertarian, cooperative, impulse.
It's hard to pigeonhole her and I think her
life reminds us that labels sometimes can
be self defeating, that they can hinder our
understanding of a true politics.
She certainly was a workers advocate.
At the same time, she was not an advocate
for all workers.
Her efforts were focused on Chicago, white
workers, mainly factory workers and she did
not have a universal sense of the vulnerabilities
of all laborers, sharecroppers, native born,

English: 
immigrant, Black, white, Asian and so forth.
She reminds us of the dangers, I think of
singling out one kind of worker to agitate
for.
And her life too, I think represents a cautionary
tale in the sense that her rhetoric outpaced
her efforts, and by that I mean she was not
a violent person on her own.
As I said, she enjoyed the spotlight and she
got a lot of headlines by her very radical
rhetoric but in the end that rhetoric did
not appeal to large members of the laboring
classes.
So, just one other thing about anarchists
today.
I mean, one thing they might learn from Lucy
Parsons is that she was a great believer in
reading deeply and widely in history, and
political theory and economics.

Serbian: 
imigranata, crnaca, belaca, Azijaca i tako dalje.
Ona nas podseća na opasnosti, mislim na izdvajanje jedne vrste radnika za koje će se agitovati.
I njen život, takođe predstavlja upozoravajuću priču u smislu da je njena retorika ostavljala za sobom
ono što je radila, i pod tim mislim na to da ona sama nije bila nasilna osoba.
Kao što sam rekla, ona je uživala da bude u centru pažnje i o njoj su pisale mnoge novine zahvaljujući
njenoj izrazito radikalnoj retorici, ali na kraju ta retorika se nije dopala velikom broju radničke klase.
Dakle, još jedna stvar o današnjim anarhistima.
Mislim, jedna stvar koju bi mogli da nauče od Lusi Parsons je da je puno verovala u
duboko i široko čitanje istorije i političke teorije i ekonomije.

Serbian: 
I ona i njeni drugovi su bili čvrsto uvereni da su njihova nastojanja utemeljena u istoriji.
Danas, mislim da neki smatraju da je dovoljno  "Samo izaći napolje, prekini marš"
Mislim da treba ozbiljno da porazmislimo o tipu sveta koji zamišljamo i da onda postupimo u skladu s tim.
TAJA GRAHAM: Profesorka Džons, ako biste mogli da ukratko izložite njen najbitniji uticaj
na radnički pokret i radnike, šta bi to bilo?
Kako biste okarakterisali njeno nasleđe?
ŽAKLIN DŽONS: Ona je bila izrazito dalekovida što se tiče nekih pitanja sa kojima smo danas dobro upoznati.
Ona je osuđivala rastući jaz između bogatih i siromašnih.
Ona je smatrala da će dvopartijski sistem biti neefikasan u rešavanju problema rastuće nejednakosti.

English: 
And she and her comrades believed very much
that their efforts were grounded in history.
Today, I think some feel, "Just go out, disrupt
a march.”
That's sufficient.
I think we need to think seriously about the
kind of world we envision and then act accordingly.
TAYA GRAHAM: Professor Jones, if you could
summarize her most substantive influence on
the labor movement and workers, what would
it be?
How would you characterize her legacy?
JACQUELINE JONES: She was very prescient about
many of the issues that we are familiar with
today.
She decried the growing gap between the rich
and the poor.
She believed that the two party system would
be ineffective in addressing growing inequality.

Serbian: 
Ona je bila nepoverljiva prema demokratskim i republikanskim političarima.
Ona je shvatala mešovite efekte tehnologije na radnom mestu, i ona je bila posebno posvećena
slobodi govora i slobodi okupljanja.
Ja mislim da je to danas jedna od njenih velikih zaostavština i to ona koja se previđa.
Ona je bila neustrašiva govornica i iako znamo da je gurala granice
prvog amandmana, istovremeno, ona je bila apsolutno hrabra prilikom suočavanja sa poslodavcima,
policijom, drugim predstavnicima vlasti i ta posvećenost, smatram, neustrašivoj vrsti slobodnog izražavanja
ostaje sa nama do danas.
TAJA GRAHAM: Mislim da je divno nastaviti, posvećenost i hrabrost
za pozitivne promene.
Htela bih da se zahvalim mojoj gošći, profesorki Džons što je bila sa nama, i htela bih da se zahvalim vama

English: 
She was suspicious of Democrat and Republican
politicians.
She understood the mixed effects of technology
in the workplace, and she was especially committed
to freedom of speech and freedom of assembly.
I think that's one of her great legacies today
and one that has been overlooked.
She was a fearless speaker and although we
know that she pushed the boundaries of the
first amendment, at the same time, she was
absolutely courageous in facing down employers,
police, other authorities and it's that commitment,
I think, to a fearless kind of free expression
that remains with us today.
TAYA GRAHAM: I think that is a wonderful thing
to carry forward, a commitment and courage
for positive change.
I want to thank my guest, Professor Jones
for joining me, and I want to thank you for

Serbian: 
što ste bili sa mnom na Mreži pravih vesti.

English: 
joining me at The Real News Network.
