First of all, thank you for
doing this. I know we've met before,
we've we've sort of discussed this
issue and this is sort of my this
is the Hill I'm dying on is the free
expression hill.
So I'm glad
you're partaking in it.
But, you know, free
expression came up during
the B.C. debate, which which I think
went well.
It was the most requested
topic out of the 42
E.D.A's.
And then 63 percent of viewers
voted for it as the most important
topic. So there's
something going on here, right?
It could be because of what's
happening with the climate.
But I've always sort of thought this
is this is an issue that's a
winnable issue.
So I think
I think it's important to hear from
everyone. So if
you're all right for me to just jump
right in.
Awesome. So,
you know, you have a platform and a
policy on free expression.
Why do you feel free
expression is such an important
and prominent topic right now?
Because freedom of speech and
cancel culture and all these things
are making it hard for conservative
voices to be heard.
Nowhere more so university
campus.
But even within, you know,
newspaper publications, we
saw major resignation, and
New York Times based
on it in the last couple of weeks.
And what's interesting, Angelo, I've
been talking about this for several
years. And in fact, when I launched
my campaign in January
and said I wanted to stand up to
cancel culture and erosion
of our history, and the
media mocked me for that.
And now, a few weeks ago,
J.K. Rowling, Malcolm Gladwell,
you know, one hundred and fifty
prominent authors all signed a
letter saying we need to fight back
against cancel culture.
So the same
thing. You know, first the free
speech club I ever met with was
years ago at UBC.
And so the very fact that we have to
have clubs to advance
this shows that there's been an
erosion over the last,
I'd say, few decades,
but acutely in the last
five years or so.
And so I think thanks
to you guys for for stepping
up for this important.
Right.
Yeah, well, it's a big battle.
You know, the question I wanted to
ask you was, is this
a conservative issue exclusively?
I mean, you mentioned J.K.
Rowling and Atwood.
I mean, it seems as though,
you know, there are liberals,
people who are intellectually
liberal who agree on this.
It seems as though, you know, free
expression is such a basic human
right that I feel
like the majority of the public
probably agrees with us.
It's just that it's so everyone's so
afraid to say so.
Do you think that this is just a
conservative issue?
No, but I think you
know that you know, that
that old sort of poem or story,
you know, "first they came
for the Jews and I didn't
say anything, then they came
for another group.
Then they came for another group.
But I didn't. And then they came for
me." I think this is a
an area where in the last number of
years there's been
anti-Semitism through BDS
and a whole range of things trying
to silence Israel and Jewish
voices, conservative voices
as well. You know,
the attack that if we have a
different point of view on roxam
road, we are
a racist. Right.
You know, and that.
So I think it's a conservative
issue in that we are at the slippery
edge of the wedge where we are
having our free speech rights
attacked first.
But I do think, as you said, that
cross-section of of
authors, most were
probably left or center left,
but they see that same sort
of erosion.
First they came for the
conservatives and then they're going
to come for every other
issue.
And J.K. Rowling's case that you've
probably followed, it has been
off and on over the last year, year
and a half, because of her
concerns about the
the intersection between
transgendered
rights and women's rights.
And I think she has the right to
stand up with her concerns
about women's rights.
And, you know,
of course, some voices on the left,
if you even dare say something,
they want to cancel you.
So I think while it's
a conservative issue right now, I
think a lot of.
People that see the risk of a
continued slide in the
free speech, right.
See that it will eventually
be mob mentality justice
and everyone could be caught in it.
Yeah, and it is incredibly
politicized, right?
I mean, there is a double standard
where you look at what happened
with Stockwell Day, for example, or
really any sort of conservative
that has to step back.
But it it's not the same for
the other side. Right.
I mean, you mentioned a little bit
of this in the debate, but would you
agree that this is just a massive
double standard?
Politically, it's weaponized.
Oh, 100 percent.
We saw that at the
the Lindsey Shepard case.
You know what, Laurier, a few years
ago, which I found very interesting
because I actually watched
that agenda,
Steve Paiken, and as a journalist, I
think is probably the most balanced
journalist in Canada.
He had Jordan Peterson.
It was a good debate.
I happened to watch it that night.
And I'm not always watching the
agenda. But and I thought,
well, that was a really good debate.
It was the first time I'd really
seen Dr. Peterson.
I'd heard of him, but that
he grew to prominence.
So to think she shows a debate
on a university
campus and is essentially
run out of Dodge for
challenging her students to watch
a debate and come to their own
conclusions. My goodness.
You know, Laurier is a good school.
You know, I've known a lot of
graduates. When I was at PMG, we
hired a lot from Laurie and
my goodness.
It's it's the coddling
of the young mind that I think
anybody, regardless of political
perspective, should never
have, that we're in this sort of
grievance culture era
where you can't even
be exposed to debate.
And that was a fairly rational
debate on the agenda.
So this is why I've
been speaking about it for several
years, Angelo.
And I do think we need
someone who's principled, consistent
and can fight back.
And in this race,
you know, several of the other
candidates are now talking about it.
But who's actually gone on
university campuses to debate
it? I'm the only one.
I went on university campus
a few years ago to debate
the merit of Sir John A.
MacDonald statues.
My staff thought I would never come
back alive from that debate.
And and I go to debates.
I'm respectful, but I'm informed and
I win.
Yeah, no, absolutely.
You do have a history of engaging.
And, you know, it's great to see
these policy points that have come
out.
If we can talk about that, you just
announced two major policies
regarding freedom of expression.
One is related to universities.
The other is related to media.
can you lay those out for us?
Yeah, absolutely. And, you know,
I've talked a lot about this, and
our team hadn't had the policies
totally developed for when we
launched our platform because we
have been looking to see how
the university, Chicago's
principles of free expression
could be used here.
And so we launched the policy
and I said, look, safeguarding
free speech rights is also
safeguarding all of our rights,
because if that one erodes
other rights, whether it's
conscience protections or others
are at risk.
So the two parts of it will be
federal funding of universities
by the federal government will
be contingent on their adherence
to principles, as
those are that are articulated
by the University of Chicago.
It is being used by some
universities in the US.
And I think it's a it's
it's an important element of
defending higher learning
and the need for us to
ensure that people are receiving
all viewpoints in their education,
not an indoctrination.
They need an education.
And that means that means
we're going to require that
for for federal funding
for special programs.
Universities are in the provincial
sphere except for mine.
I went to Royal Military College,
the only federal university.
But other than that,
I want this to be a positive
incentive for universities to do
what many of their boards of
governors are looking at, but are
scared to now.
It will tie a funding requirement
in universities.
I've been talking to my own.
They're hurting because of the lack
of foreign students.
Lower enrollment because of COVID.
So hopefully it will serve as a
as a as a positive incentive
for them to take freedom of
expression seriously.
The second principle relates to the
press gallery in Ottawa, which
really hasn't had an update since.
The reporters probably smoke
cigarets as they type their stories
on the typewriter.
It is it is an old club
and it's not open to conservative
voices or even online voices.
Even their applications don't
anticipate bloggers and
online.
I want to make sure full access to
parliamentary press gallery
resources available to anybody
covering parliament, including
conservative voices.
And I'm going to accredit the
Independent Press Gallery of Canada,
which was recently established
because of the feeling that
there has been an exclusion
of conservative voices of online,
of new media.
So I think, you know,
sunshine is the best disinfectant.
Why would the press gallery not want
as many voices as possible to cover
our robust democracy?
So I'm very proud of the policies.
We've gotten good feedback.
And as prime minister, I will
implement them all.
I mean, I can tell you, I'm pretty
over the moon regarding the Chicago
principles policy.
And for those wondering.
It's not that, you know, they hear
Chicago, all American.
We're not saying that we're adopting
some kind of First Amendment.
But the University of Chicago
created a mandate that is so
basic and universal
that other schools have adopted it.
And, you know, in many ways,
it's not that you're forcing
schools, but in many ways,
incentivizing schools to adopt the
Chicago principles effectively ends
a major part of the culture
war on campuses.
Because, you know, we
right now, the Free Speech Club are
taking UBC to the Supreme Court
because they now have a new mandate,
which says, look, if you bring
controversial speakers that groups
like Antifa or activists
are upset with, we're just gonna
cancel the event.
This is a public it's a public
institution. We're all funding this,
right? If it's a private venue, then
they can do whatever they want.
But this is a major, major
issue. So I'm really, really glad
to see you're you're addressing
that. I mean, why do you feel,
you know, free expression
should be, you know, the nexus of
free expression should be on the
Canadian campus?
Well, because it used to be right.
This is the this is what
is lost in,
I'd say, the younger subset
of associate professors and folks
like this who've come up as
part of this sort of coddled
generation.
I include some of my own
generation Gen Xers in
that the
they seem to forget that the
fundamental element of university
education particularly is to
challenge viewpoints, to
to encourage debate.
And the very fact that the concept
of tenure for university
professors is in place was
an expression of the freedom
of expression
and research interests for
professors, in fact.
Why? Why does that's why has
there tenure? It's part of that
freedom. Academic freedom
that used to be a fundamental pillar
of higher education.
And now that seems to be kind of
tossed aside.
And thank goodness there's tenure
or, you know, there would have been
these groups taking runs at Dr.
Peterson or or other voices.
They could do that to Lindsay
Shepherd because she was just a
T.A.. Right.
And so
I hope people realize this is a back
to basics.
University of Chicago is a very well
regarded school.
And as you said, it is an American
example. But I
went to Dalhousie Law School.
It was the first modern law school
in Canada. And what did it pattern
its case law method after?
Harvard.
So even some of our universities
have adopted
educational sort of fundamentals
from schools of higher learning,
whether it's Oxford, Harvard.
And I think what the University of
Chicago has done is continuing
to to cause
cause positive discussions on
campus. And I want to see that
happen in Canada.
Yeah, yeah. No, absolutely.
And you know, when we're talking
about discussions and allowing
conservatives and debate, we're not
talking about hate speech.
Right. A lot of people will look at,
you know, a lot of people in the
opposition will look at
anything related to free expression.
And they think, oh, they just want
to platform hate speech.
We're not talking about that.
You're not allowed to incite
hatred or call to action
or any of that in Canada.
I think we're all on the same page
with that. But debate is very
important.
You know, when you look at what's
happening abroad, especially with
China, with Hong Kong and
the Uyghur population,
do you feel that our freedoms
are delicate here?
And do you feel that we need to do
something to promote freedom
elsewhere?
Yes, I do think
one thing we can never be certain
of Angelo is.
There are foreign influence
operations in Canada.
Now, I've talked a lot about the
United Front, which are communist
inspired agents
building sympathetic connections.
It's been shameful to basically
see the ties with the
Liberal Party.
And the basic dictatorship,
his admiration for it with Trudeau.
But Russia, social media
sources.
There are efforts to
influence our speech in Canada.
And I've long said that some
of the camcel culture
and and the division that's put
out there, including some of the
the origins of antifa
support, comes from
radical regimes and
dictatorships that want
to actually squelch
voices that call out
the situation with the Uyghurs
in China or the erosion
of of rights under the one country
two systems agreement with Hong
Kong.
So this is why we have to be
more resolute in defending free
speech, is there are not only
the cancel culture sort of left
voices trying to
silence conservative
ideas or independent thinking.
There are also foreign interests
that are trying to squelch
examination of.
Of Canada
being critical of the Communist
Party in Beijing.
These sorts of things.
So we have to be not just
aware of that.
We have to fight against it.
And so I think all
of this discussion globally now
about cancel culture is very good
because I'm hoping it
leads to a rejuvenation
of free speech as a fundamental
pillar of a democratic society.
Yeah, yeah. No, absolutely.
It's it's an important issue,
especially as it relates to what's
going on with the Uyghur population.
I know you're busy, guy, so we'll
leave you with a final question
here.
I know your a father.
So this issue matters to you.
Your kids are going to go to
university one day.
What message of hope or
motivation would you give to
a young conservative who's in
university who is entering the
workforce and feels
afraid to speak their mind?
I always you know, I talk to my
children every night before
they go to bed, and I always
try to encourage them to believe
in themselves.
And if you believe in yourself
and have that confidence in
yourself, that means
you should fight back against
people trying to silence your point
of view, whether
it's political, whether it's social,
whether it's other.
We should actually hope
that young people would
respectfully debate
their points of view.
And that's what I want to see
in my children.
And in fact, why I liked
meeting with some of the UBC
Freedom of Speech Club members years
ago was
in many ways it's harder
to swim against the current.
A lot of people will just give in
and let the current take them and be
quiet and just find themselves
a lot further down river and then
have to get out and find their way
back.
Oh, I know it takes courage.
It takes resolve to swim
against the current.
But you know what?
It makes you stronger.
The more you are challenged, the
more you are certain
of the principles you're fighting
for.
So I always like people that
that are nudging their way against
that current.
And I think
the good thing is some of the work
you guys are doing is now
being noticed.
And I think more Canadians
are aware of the risk to free speech
protections in Canada than even four
or five years ago.
So keep doing what you're doing.
That's what I would say to my own
children. Now, my daughter's just
starting high school, although
it's she faced it
as a you know, when the students
were doing walkouts against the Ford
government. You know, I'm friends
with your Ford and Steven Lichee
and the ministers here.
And and my daughter
stayed in the school and was
basically bullied
for not being part of what was
supposed to be a spontaneous
walkout.
But it was basically orchestrated by
the teachers. And I I was proud
of her, not because she made
a scene or was combative
that she was willing to be able
to resist the
peer pressure of just going
out.
And,
you know, it's it's it's tough.
So I have admiration.
You know, it will make all of your
members stronger for standing
up what you believe in.
Yeah, absolutely.
And it's very inspirational.
Right. It's that's why I commend you
for what you're doing regarding this
policy. People see it and they
realize it's OK and we're
allowed to be conservative.
We're allowed to be principled.
And it's great to hear your daughter
is following your footsteps
by being principled there.
So thank you so much
for coming on.
I appreciate it. Good luck in the
race.
And remember, all ballots have to
be in by the 21st of August.
Most people should have their
ballots by now, if not, contact the
party.
And with that said, thank you very
much, Mr. O'Toole.
Thank you, Angelo. Thank the whole
club for what you do, and I look
forward to getting back
out to B.C.
and perhaps speaking
with your club in person.
And heck, we may even
have to run through some protests to
do so. And, you know, I'll be
willing to do that.
Absolutely. I look forward to it.
OK, take care.
Thank you. All right.
Thank you.
