Hello, and welcome to rainy Spain. Now
before we crack on with this Living
Simply video about my dear friend Shanna
who is a freelance writer from San Diego,
I've got three things that I want to
apologise about: Number one, I know I need
a decent microphone, that is top of my
list for when I get back to the UK.
Number two, we were moved on halfway
through this interview because we had a
tripod and security guards don't like
tripods. So we got moved on, and then
number three is I actually had a
migraine on the day of the interview and
I thought I was doing a really good job
of disguising the fact. However, when you
get to part two of the interview you
will probably see that my face is
telling a different story. I was trying
my hardest to hide the fact that I was
finding it difficult to focus and look,
and try and pretend I wasn't in pain, but
you can see I'm pulling some really
interesting facial expressions towards
the end of this video. So apologies for
that, but without further ado let's crack
on with a Living Simply video about
moving from the United States to Portugal.
[clap] Oh that was a good one!
[music]
ANDREW: Hello, we are here in Lisbon in the Gulbenkian...Gulbenkian?... gardens.  We've had
a fantastic day here in Lisbon Portugal.
You may remember my friend Shanna from
videos last year with the Wayfarer van,
and we came to Lisbon in March... [to Shanna]  you've
moved here haven't you, to Portugal? SHANNA:  Yes! It hasn't quite sunk in but it's been
exactly a month today and yeah, wow,
I live in Portugal!
ANDREW: What we all want to know
is why Shanna has moved from San
Diego, beautiful San Diego California, to Portugal?
SHANNA: Yeah from San Diego and van
life, to Portugal and a language I don't
speak and to a country where I really
don't know anybody. It's been quite an
odyssey, quite an adventure, and I would
say that the basic elements of why I
moved are because one I'm getting older,
and I'm trying to make a plan that suits
my lifestyle for this next chapter and
that includes being able to access
health care at a reasonable cost which
as a self-employed person in the state
of California in the US,  it's been very
challenging to be able to manage those costs.
ANDREW: But you're not automatically
eligible for health care here are you?
You've got to buy health insurance?
SHANNA: Oh yes of
course, of course! And and and I bring my
economy and my livelihood here to this
beautiful country so, you know, be
participant in every full way. But my
health insurance premiums right now
even with my private insurance
here, it's about a fifth of the cost of
what I was paying in the U.S.  In
addition the quality of life here is, as
you know from being here in March and
then I was here again in August before I
made the final decision to move a month
ago, the quality of life here is amazing;
the fresh fruit and the vegetables, and
coffee for 50 cents
versus a five-dollar coffee in the US,
beautiful artisan breads, people are
friendly... lovely lovely people, very warm.
And in fact most people pretty much our
age and under speak fluent if not very
close to fluent English. Yeah and so you
know there are obviously challenges that
come with just packing up your entire
life and moving to another country!
ANDREW: That's where
I wanted to go now because one of the
themes of the channel is Living Simply,
minimalism... How much stuff did you
bring with you... how much stuff, and how
did you arrive at that amount of stuff?
SHANNA: okay so basically I took an entire
lifetime which I've always lived very
simply, that's one of the reasons that
you and I... that's one of our areas where
we connected, and I'm not somebody that
collects a lot of things, that just
hasn't been my way. However I've been on
the planet long enough to have acquired
some things, and I sold my house, I sold
all the furniture and personal...well not
all the personal effects, but you know,
decor and that kind of thing with the
house to the new buyer of the house. And
basically I came with one large suitcase,
two carry-ons, my dog Milo who
you know, and I have three small boxes
about this size
back in the States that will eventually
come with a couple pieces of artwork.
That's it, that's all I own! I mean I...
...we were laughing the other day but
I own basically a shopping cart... a
shopping trolley's worth, you know, of
personal items. Yeah pretty much, and
now I'm in the process of... of course I've
moved into a beautiful apartment... which I
could have never afforded in U.S... I
mean I have a finally have a two-bedroom
so it's nice to have a guest room. And so
I'm acquiring things slowly and very
intentionally this time. I'm really
spending time looking at and living with
the space and the rooms trying to decide.
And in fact we had this conversation
about 'Do I really need a sofa?' Just
because a person has a living room that
dictates that you have the sofa, you get
the tables, you do the coffee table,
the chairs.... I had to stop and think about how do I want my life to look now
that I've kind of blown up the U.S.
chapter and started this new book
which is my Portuguese life
ANDREW: Because that was
interesting we went to Ikea the other
day...[garden machinery] and of course they've just started
gardening as we're doing this interview.
I can't get away from leaf blowers! SHANNA: We've
tried, I know you tried, we'd set up
elsewhere and no, they were gardening.
ANDREW: So sorry about all the gardening noise, but
we were in Ikea and we saw a table for
your kitchen, and then we realised that
we, even us, as very mindful consumers,
intentional purchasers, we nearly fell
down that hole of buying something to
fill a gap rather than because you needed it.
SHANNA: Right! And we realised that
when we got back. We were so glad that we
didn't get it because we probably... it
would have been a table in the kitchen
and I already have a table that I'm
using as a desk as well in my sunroom so
it's going to serve multi-purpose. But we
would have sat at it for, what, maybe five
minutes a day twice, for coffee or tea, and that was it.
ANDREW: Then if you go to move house or
something you've go to take it with you.
SHANNA: Right and that's the thing is, where I'm
at right now as you know is beautiful,
but I just got here I have an entire
country to explore and I don't know if
that's where I will want to end up.
There's other little towns in the
vicinity that I want to explore, yeah, I
may end up in a one-bedroom. If I do,
I don't want to have to do what I did in
San Diego which was get rid of
everything or be faced with hauling it
with me.
ANDREW: So I want to go back to San Diego;
can you tell us a little bit about the
process of how you got rid of your stuff?
And the other thing is, it sounds so
easy, just 'Hey! Pack up your life and move
to another country!'  What's the reality?
SHANNA: okay so the reality you know it's not
the Instagram story that a lot of people
think that it is becoming (I call myself
a migrant, a new migrant rather than an
expatriate because I just don't really
like that term for lots of reasons) but
you know I have a mom in San Diego and a
brother and
mom is, I would say, relies on me for lots
of things.
So that was probably the hardest part, it's
making the decision to move knowing that
if I'm getting older she's obviously
getting older, and now instead of being
what five minutes away from her I am
five thousand miles, something like that?
A: A good 24 hours.
S: So yeah good 24 hours
and so that's been, I think, the thing
that weighs heaviest on me because I
wonder each day when I go to bed, am I
gonna get the call that I need to go and
help her with something huge, some crisis
that comes up? So there was that issue to
settle and you know I started this
process... well really decades ago... because
I've always wanted to move to Europe, but
I started it in earnest, what, about a
year and a half ago? And so from that
point on I had to make very intentional
and conscientious choices and decisions
to slowly bring my mom, my clients, my
close friends on board with this idea. I
didn't just say 'I'm moving, sorry guys,
figure it out!' I said 'Hmm, I'm thinking
about this,'  'I'm going on an exploratory
trip,' 'I'm thinking I might really do this,' 
so I had to warm everybody up including
myself to the idea. There were clients
that I had to make sure that would be
comfortable with the fact that I would
be a continent away, or an ocean away, and
eight hours roughly away. Everybody, all
my clients, are phenomenal by the way, and
they're all excited that I'm doing this.
And you know then I had to wrap up
things like my health care there and
getting my home listed, and I was
fortunate the the buyer of my house is a
person I know; he also wanted the
furniture so that couldn't have worked
out better. I would have had to spend
who-knows hours on Craigslist,
you know, giving things away. It was
months. Even though I had a tiny tiny
one-bedroom cottage it was months of
charity shop donations, giving things
away to friends and family that I know
that, you know, they would like and then
setting aside the big pieces for the
purchaser of my home. As it is I still
have Millie, my van, back in San Diego
ANDREW: What's going to happen to Millie?
SHANNA: Well I didn't sell her right away
because: 1)  I wasn't sure I really
wanted to and if this move would stick.
Now I've only been here a month but even
with some of the ups and downs I've had
I definitely want to be here. It's at
least a year experiment. Hopefully it'll
stick and be longer, but I decided I'm
going to sell Millie which makes me
really sad, but I can't bring her here,
and I can't drive her being over there,
and it's just a liability for me as
somebody who lives simply and
intentionally. You know, I'm paying
insurance on her, I'm paying storage on
her right now, and I've got a friend
who's driving her once a week to make
sure that, you know, the fluids don't go
bad and all of that, so when I go back
this spring in March there will be a
two-week period, and I will be putting
her up for sale so if anybody...
ANDREW: So if anybody's interested in a van with the Wayfarer kit...
SHANNA: yeah they can contact me. Maybe we
can put my Average White Van email down below?
A: yeah, so we'll put Shanna's
email below this.  In March she's selling Millie the Van.
SHANNA: So if you're in Southern
California....
ANDREW: I think that's important
to note too is that just because
something's right for you at one time
doesn't mean there's always gonna be
right for you all the time.
You're allowed to move on. SHANNA: Right! And I
think that that's the thing is where
people get stuck people just get stuck
in life. I mean I have had many people tell
me 'Oh I can't believe you're doing this!
I would love to be able to do that!' and
when I questioned them further, they
don't really have a reason why they
can't, they just think they can't. And
it's the same with the van. People have
said to me 'Oh but you only had the van
for two years! You know, I thought you
were into that!' 
I was into it! And I might again be into it.
Here, but right now,  I meant to be
a new Portuguese resident and figuring
out how to do that, and coming to
beautiful places like this.  So
you know, part of also living simply and
being intentional is deciding what you
can do at the time that works for you. I
can't even think about trying to get a
vehicle here, and what that would mean.
I'm just figuring out how to get
from bus to ferry to Metro because,
as you know, I don't live in Lisbon
proper, I live across the river in a more
traditional Portuguese neighborhood.
So I'm just trying to figure out how to buy
groceries!
ANDREW: That's interesting, and that brings us back to Portugal. People
have this Instagram image that you
arrived, you got in your flat, you
unpacked your bag and now all you're doing
is skipping around the city having fun.
SHANNA: Oh yeah and you've got all these new
friends nightlife and all this stuff happened... ANDREW: It's not really like that it it?
SHANNA: No it's not! I think as I mentioned to you I was
saying that when I finally figured out
my laundromat and how it worked (which
it's amazing by the way, yeah, kind of a
fan of the laundromat!) but when I figured
out how it worked and what cycles I
needed to do and all of that, not only was
I exhausted by the end of that process
that afternoon, but I felt like I'd won
an Olympic gold medal just doing
something that I would have done in two
seconds back in the States!
So little things like like
yesterday I figured out how to pay my
new cell phone bill using my Portuguese
bank you know which... so I've got Google
Translate open, you know, and I'm trying
to figure out: 'Am i sending the right
money to the right place?' and yeah, I was
exhausted by the time it was done. But I
felt victorious, and those are the
kinds of wins. My life has gotten
dramatically more complicated by doing
this but also more simplified because I
can only do... you know I may have
paid 20 bills, gone to the laundry, and
done a million other things back in San
Diego in one day.  Here, I'm very
focused; it forces me to be really
present, you have to do just one
thing at a time.
So there isn't really a lot of
multitasking going on.
I'm learning to relive those values that
are really important to me which is
being present, being mindful, and living
very simply, and that's the end goal if
there is one (I'm really more about the
process than the goal) but my goal
here is to
find out what I really love, and not
spend most of my life just working but
to learn that I can just BE in an
amazing place and find peace and solace in that.
ANDREW: Cool, yeah! [to security guard off screen] Are we...? Okay oh we have to... stop? Yeah oh yeah...
Sorry, yeah yeah...
OOOHHH!!!!!!!!
[Test card tone]
ANDREW: Right, we've had to move venues. We had a
tripod up and a big camera, and the security guard didn't like that, did he? S: No!
A: So we've come back here just to wrap up because we were nearly done
anyway weren't we? S: Close!
A: So how would you once again... how would you
just quickly surmise the move... what you've done?
S: Okay so what I would say is
that it is a multi-pronged process it's
not a simple decision to make, and there
are lots of pros and cons obviously with
a big move like this. And I didn't just
move for one reason, I moved for many
reasons. Part of it is the lack of
affordability of health care in the U.S.,
the thought of working until I was 95
just to support myself, and I moved here
because the quality of life is amazing.
I've always wanted to live in Europe and
I'm a life experimenter so I'll give
this a try for a year or two and if it
doesn't work, the thing is is I know how
to do San Diego, I know how to do the US,
I can always go back there. But this is
an opportunity that I couldn't turn down.
I'm excited about learning a new
language in my older years, and meeting new people too.
A:  Cool!  And what would you
say to people who are actually thinking
of making some big life move at age
approaching retirement?
Yes, um, what would I say? Well you know what I'd say!
I'd say go for it! I think one of the
things it's really important to remember
is that there is never a perfect time to
do something like this, there never is. So
if you wait, you are going to wake up one
day and it's going to be past the point
of being able to do it and you're going
to wonder why you didn't do it. That's
why I did it now. Was the timing perfect
all the way around for me? No!  There are
many things that could have been in
place making it more perfect, but I did
it, and here I am! And I'm thrilled I made
the move. Is it hard?
Heck yeah it's hard, but is it also
gratifying?
Yes it's absolutely amazing, so I would encourage anybody to do it.
A: Cool, and then
finally I'm sure a lot of people have
got a lot of questions. Please leave a
comment to this video if you have a
comment, but if people have got a
question then leaving a comment to this video
isn't probably the perfect thing to do
is it? What should people do if they've got
a particular question about migrating
to a European country or what you've done?
S: Just real quickly, I tend to get
these questions that are like:
'Oh, interesting, tell me how did you do it!' 
Well I've been planning this, like I said,
really decades but in earnest for a year
and a half, so that kind of question is
super big and vague and I can't really
answer those individually. I will pop in
and look occasionally to see if there's
anything I can answer, but the best place
to find me right now? I created an
Instagram account specifically for this
adventure called A Vegan in Portugal and
I'll link to that in the description
below. And I do talk about... I'm using that
to be very transparent about the pros
but also the challenges of doing a major
life move especially at this point in
life to a different country. And I also
am writing very honestly and
transparently about this in my
newsletter which... we could link to my
latest one?... and then people could sign up
if they were interested.
A: Sure! Again, we'll link to that in the description below. If people want to
sign up to your newsletter they can do that...
S: Right, right. A: ...and get more details that way. S: And I am going to.... you know I did
just land a month ago and I'm still
sorting everything out but I am planning
on writing a resource guide, some of the
resources I've used - I did use a
migration assistant which helped with
things like tax ID numbers and smoothing
the way with getting my temporary visa
and all of that which, you know, all had
to be done in Portuguese. And I have
lots of other resources as well.
You would find out about that through my
Instagram and my newsletter but maybe
when that's available we could also link
to that as well on my blog?
A: Sure, yes when that becomes available in
a few weeks...months...I'll put that as well in the description
below. So if you're watching this in 2020... S: Right! Hypothetically it should be done by then!
A: Right well I think it's about time... we
have been very busy eating our way
around Lisbon... I think it's about time we
went had another snack!
S: Yeah! What do you think? And more coffee? Oh well, maybe more gelato...maybe!
A:  Okay all right. Well thanks very much. So it just leaves me to say
from Lisbon in Portugal from Shanna and
from me...
A&S IN UNISON: Thanks for tuning in!
A: Ooh, she got it right first time! That was without a rehearsal, well done!
You're a natural at this! S: I've done it before, actually!
A: Yeah you have. You're very good at it...
[music to fade]
