***Hello everybody I'm really excited
you're joining us
this morning if you're watching it live
at whatever time of day or night it
might be I say that
you know I've gotten emails from people
in Germany people in the Philippines
people in Japan
who watch this live so it might be
evening for you even though we're
showing it live in the morning
my name is Mark Lanier and I teach a
class at Champion Forest Baptist Church
called the Biblical Literacy Class
and right now we're still in that covid
stage where the class
is being taught away from campus
we hope that'll change soon but today
I've got this incredible opportunity
and I have grabbed Pastor Brent Dyer
from the church
I said Pastor Brent you've got to come
join because
last week I taught on singing and this
week we're extending it into worship
and who would ever guess but Pastor
Brent Dyer is our worship leader and
worship pastor at the church
he's a personal friend of mine and my
family
and and we are really delighted to have
him and so today's teaching
will be kind of a joint session where
through questions and
and visits uh we get a chance to talk
about worship in ways
that I hope wherever you are will enrich
your walk with God
will enrich your worship with God and
will draw you closer
to the purpose of all humanity which is
to bring praise to the creator
so with that we're going to get started
Pastor Brent thank you so much for
joining us so [BD] thanks for inviting me
Mark [ML] oh well it's I'm so excited so
I've kind of divided this up into three
areas I want to talk to you about you
personally
and let people get to know you but then
I want to talk to you about the theology
of worship you know what what we should
be
thinking about and knowing about behind
what is worship talking about God in
that sense
and then finally I've just got a bunch
of practical questions I'm dying to ask
you okay [BD] let's do it
[ML] all right let's do it first of all uh
you are Brent Dyer where did you grow
up tell us a little bit about your
family of origin
[BD] so I've lived in Texas my whole life um
my father is a pastor my grandfather was a
pastor actually my dad's retired now but he was
a pastor um grew up in the Dallas area uh went to
high school in the Dallas
area and uh you know in high school
you know did all the things that high
schoolers do especially uh those who are
preachers kids um so I don't know if you
want to go
down that road [ML] wait wait so
those who may not know preachers kids
sometimes have a reputation
of trying to find those things that
their fathers the preachers would not
have wanted them to find necessarily
[BD] yes that's a good way to put it forth a
little bit yes
I was I was very independent as a
teenager and I graduated from high
school and went to Baylor University
where I studied music and initially
uh started studying vocal performance
um [ML] so like in high school were you in
choir and stuff like that [BD] I
was in I was in choir and you know
musicals and all that kind of stuff [ML] so
did theater as well
[BD] I did theater piano you know all that
stuff
[ML] so you play piano and [BD] I did [ML] when did you start learning to play piano
[BD] I started probably third grade
[ML] so was it because you liked it or
because your parents made you
[BD] at that point it was because my parents
made me [ML] but did you reach a point where you liked it
[BD] no no not really
[ML] I started violin in third grade because
my parents thought it was real important
for me to be ultra coordinated in terms of one arm
doing this and one hand doing this yeah so I took
violin in third grade fourth grade fifth grade sixth grade
and then I told my parents please no
more yeah and uh
I got mercy at that point [BD] I didn't
so I did it well I think my sophomore
year of high school or something like
that I finally I finally quit
only to have to pick it back up again in
college so oh mercy
[ML] so you were you knew you had a good
voice early on
[BD] sure [ML] now what what in terms of
some people watching this are fairly
musical what would you say your voice
range is or use
[BD] I am a lyric baritone [ML] okay what does
that mean for those who aren't
so [BD]  in men's voices you have a a tenor
and a bass and a baritone somewhere in
between so lyric baritone
uh I can't sing the really really low
notes and I can't sing the really really
really high notes but I'm kind of on the
higher end of the low [ML] okay so I would
call myself a baritone as well
baritone into bass though and I've been
listening to you sing for
years now and you hit notes that I dream
about
so you you actually have some range up
there at the top end [BD] yeah {ML] okay
all right um now so you're growing up
were you an only child
[BD] I am an only child [ML] wow are both your parents still alive [BD] they are
[ML] that's wonderful that's really good so
when and
you where did you meet your wife [BD] we met on a blind date
so after I graduated from Baylor I went
to Southwestern Seminary in Fort Worth
I was working at a little church there
as a worship pastor
and two different people who didn't know
each other were trying to set us up at
the same time so after I saw a picture I was willing
to go to lunch [ML] I've seen his i know his wife well smart
guy she might have vision problems but but
he knew what he was homing in on
okay go ahead [BD] so we went to lunch
um that lunch ended up lasting like five
hours
wow three months later we were engaged
[ML] wow
and uh tell everybody you've got some
children tell them about your
high school kid [BD] so Jill and I just
celebrated 20 years
back in March and we have a son who is
a senior this year about to graduate
from high school and a daughter who will
begin her
sophomore year [ML] fantastic those are
uh challenging so your son does he know
where he's going to college
[BD] he does not he's he's figuring it out
he's [ML] well he's got time now when did you feel
called into ministry I guess is a term a
lot of people use
when did you decide this is a direction
for me
[BD] still figuring that one out more 
I'm kidding
um so I graduated from Baylor so about
halfway through my time at Baylor
um my parents said okay you need to get
a job because I wanted to live in an
apartment I didn't want to be in the
dorm and said
so they said you need to get a job so
having grown up in the church
um the easiest thing I could possibly
think of to do that would make money
with the least amount of work at least I
thought at the time
was to lead music so I took a job uh
there was no real spiritual calling
there was it was just a job
for money and so I did that for the last
two years of school and I graduated with
my undergrad
and didn't really know what to do and
didn't really want to go to graduate
school but started in seminary because
my whole family had done that never
really
buying into the idea of seminary but
just kind of doing it
because it was what I was supposed to do
you know it's what my family had done
so about halfway through seminary I
decided this is not for me
I don't uh growing up I would have said
I'll do anything but work in a church
like anything but work in a church
so about halfway through seminary I
decided to get a real estate license and
I began selling real estate up in the
Dallas area
um so at one point I was working in a
church
going to seminary selling real estate
trying to work my way out of
church work when
we found out we were pregnant with our
first child and
so needing some stability I ended up
back in the church
so the the the long answer to your short
question is
um God used the people of the church
to kind of mold my heart to to wanting
to serve in the church
never really had a like a lightning bolt
experience never had a
you are set aside uh it was just always
God took the gifts and talents that he
had given me and opened doors which opened more doors
which through relationships and different
opportunities confirmed his calling on
my life
[ML] all right so here's I'm a visual thinker
so here's the visual I had
with that some people hear
God say to them this is what you're
going to do
and it's like okay thank you and some
people
God says here's your road and you walk
down it and as you walk down it he says
no turn left
nope turn right and he just kind of
opens doors and you wind up
finding that you have been walking in
the Lord's
direction for your life without even
realizing it maybe even sometimes is
that right
[BD] yeah that that's definitely that's
definitely true just
as recently as the last couple of years
I've decided to
to expand that even more and I've I've
worked about to finish working on a master's in
clinical mental health counseling
so uh you know God has just opened
different doors throughout my life
and and every time he opens a door
I walked through it and it has kind of
morphed into a life
you know [NL] you and I had lunch fairly
recently and
at that lunch oh it's been a number of
months ago but at that lunch you were
telling me about this and you were
saying that you you think God's got
in your future an ability to give good
counseling to
other pastors music worship leaders and
other folks like that
in fact I think right now you're even
active in blogging and things like that
is that right [BD] yeah God's really kind of
put a uh
put it on my heart to to help hurting
people
specifically pastors uh specifically
worship pastors
so uh you know I'm doing some mentoring
and coaching and things like
[ML] that well that's fantastic so I want you
to mentor and coach us
a little bit today okay and so we're
going to shift and I want to start
talking about
the theology of worship for lack of a
better way of saying it theology's
in in the sense of speaking about God
but but what I want to do is talk about
maybe the philosophy of worship is
another way to say it
what is worship in in your mind and in
your
words nomenclature [BD] yeah you know the
the interesting thing and when people
talk to a worship pastor or a musician
about worship they expect the
the person to say it's singing it's
gathering and singing and
but really uh if you look at Romans 12:1
and 2
it says that living your you're offering
your life as a sacrifice
that that is your spiritual act of
worship so
worship really is just um
it's it's a choice by choice day by day
way we live our lives
uh in a way that that sacrifices
uh ourselves for um
for for for Christ [ML] yeah so I'm going to
put up here
for us to look at together that Romans
passage because I think it's so
important
where Paul says I appeal to you
therefore
brothers by the mercy of God to
present your bodies as a living
sacrifice
holy and acceptable to God which is your
spiritual worship
great point worship all right now as a
language major myself
I tend to look at things from a
language perspective
so I look at passages like that and and
I look at the Old Testament
and there's an Old Testament word for
worship that that
in English um we would say it's uh
basically um
we sometimes will spell that a little
differently the Hebrew
is just the the hay lamid
lamin but it's hala
we get hallelujah from it hallelujah
is the halal with yah which is an
abbreviation for Yahweh or the the name
of God
and it's in the hallelu form because
it's for the plural long story short
ignore all of that if it's boring you to
death we do have some people who know
Hebrew who watch this so they may not be
bored
but the bottom line is is that's often
translated praise
or praise the Lord but there's a good
indication
that it comes from the simple word of
shine
and that same word means uh not just to
shine but to
to praise or to be boastful about
let me just scoot back a little bit
praise
um be boastful about with the idea that
we can be
boastful about God
we can shine make
God shine and I think Paul is indicating
we can do that by the way we live our
lives
right and that is
we are God's trophies in that sense so
how does that translate into
your understanding of who God is
because you've got if we're going to be
boastful and
and proud of our God and shine his
radiance to the world and praise him to
the world
we got to have a clue of who he is right
so talk to me about
who God is in terms of your life that's
affected who you are
[BD] yeah well you know it's it's I think
it's easy to think of God as
creator so the one who has fashioned us
and formed us um but then the idea that
he also
chooses to know us and he chooses
uh you know he the choice to allow
Jesus to come to earth and the the
choice to allow
uh us to know him through Christ
and then and then the the idea that um
you know when you think of when I think
of me when I think of
what I know about me and kind of the
the the messed up person that I am
and I look at where I would be or
could be
if if God hadn't intervened in my life
and
and I think about that and then I think
about the way God has intervened
it's that kind of thing that makes you
stop and and worship
um because you look at um
you look at your own nature and you look
at the nature of what God is
if you you know when you read the
scripture and you look at
the different characteristics of God
compared to our own characteristics
and it and it kind of makes you uh
really have no other choice
other than to worship his character [ML] oh
man you just brought back a memory to
me that causes me to pick up this is the
actual hymnal I grew up with
in terms of what we sing with out of our
church
and I grew up in an acappella tradition
so the notes are shaped notes
in the hymnal but we we sing this song
you have led me in this song
before um you know this song extremely
well holy holy holy Gord God
almighty early in the morning
our song shall rise to thee holy holy
holy
merciful and mighty God over all
and blessed eternally I was singing that
in church one time when I was in college
and I was cruising along pretty good
because we were four part harmony
and and and I loved the harmony the way
it was written in this song
and then and then I kept singing
and this next verse all the saints adore
thee
casting down their golden crowns around
the crystal sea
cherubim and seraphim the angels
falling down before thee who was an art
and
evermore shalt be and at that point our
preacher got up
and he stopped us in the middle of the
song
and he said and by the way our preacher
was don finto
who I'll be interviewing September 13th
he's going to be live
at hopefully class if we're back on
campus
but he said everybody stop he said the
singing sounds beautiful
he said but do you realize you are right
now
in a spiritual way joining the angels
singing in the presence of the holy one
he said don't get so wrapped up in how
good you sound and singing the
parts that you lose track of where you
are
right now in the universe of God
and I remember my reaction
was one of tears
because I wasn't worthy to be in the
presence of God and I was afraid he
might see me
and it was just kind of like I can't
I can sing the song it's a beautiful
song but I can't be in the presence of
the holy one
doing this because I've got no right and
then I saw that passage
because he made us start singing it
again falling down before thee and I
thought okay I can fall down in front of
him
and and and and it was um
it's a transformational moment for me
you've got to experience that just
routinely because you are
so caught up in worship
[BD] yeah it's very much that that Isaiah 6
experience you know where you say woe is
me
and I think often times
it's as a worship leader it's very
interesting when you're standing in
front of people
and you get caught up in the the the
emotion of thinking about
uh the lyric that you're singing or what
God has brought you
from or uh just the holiness of of the
God that you are
placed there to lead other people to
worship um
yeah it's uh lyrics
and music have have power um
you know to change to change us [ML] yeah when I was teaching last week about
singing I talked
about how much of the brain is involved
in all these different aspects of
singing
you've got all the lyrics and you've got
the intentionality and the mental
aspects
but you've also got your brain doing all
of these other to keep track of rhythm
right you know meter uh keeping pitch
keeping all of that stuff going and and
it's it's a
true total human activity to to sing
um well so
when you look at worship
and you you have a choir you have a
worship
team you have worship pastors that work
with you
do you ever talk to them through this
stuff do you all
talk about what it means to worship and
all {BD] yes you know I joke with our I took with
our teaching pastors that most of the
theology people
learn they learn through through song
and the teaching pastors kind of give me
a hard time because
you know but I we talk often
about the importance and the
responsibility that we have
as worship leaders because when you're
when you're picking
songs you are teaching theology
and you're encouraging those around you
with the lyric that you're singing and
you know a lot of times
uh people with memory problems in older
age they can't remember
they can't remember important parts of
their lives but they can remember songs
that they were taught
you know as four and five and
six-year-olds and so we don't
underestimate the power
that those songs have as we gather
together each sunday
and and we're looking at what key
they're in we're looking at
uh are they singable we're looking at
what is the theology
um there are multi-layered decisions
that go in picking which songs we
we choose [ML] well I wanna I wanna get real
practical with you here in a little
bit but before I do I want to make sure
that I've driven home
through our discussion this point about
individual worship
versus corporate worship and and
how both of them are important
um during covid it's made it
in quarantine it's made it more
it's made it where it's it's almost only
available as individual worship but as
our worship centers are opening back up
I feel like I've missed something by not
worshiping with others in a corporate
manner in addition to my own life
would you talk to me about that song
[BD] yeah so the the thing about corporate
worship is it's it's really just an
overflow or an example of our of our
individual worship
and then you come together and what it
does is it it unites
with the the idea of all of these voices
singing the same
notes and the same rhythms and the same
lyrics
it's it's uniting and it and it draws
believers together
it encourages the the the use of music
the singing
the theology uh because you never know
what that person next you is
is dealing with they're going through uh
and and
coming together and hearing people in
agreement can be a great source of
encouragement
uh it's it's it's like war it's coming
together and singing we're in battle
together you know and and
and the corporate experience um
is is meant to help the individual
connect not only with uh
with God and to to
to bless his heart but also to encourage
those around us and the other believers
and in our community
[ML] I like that I know that the the
individual
aspect can exist also within the
corporate
you were talking about how yourself
personally it
and and I gave the example of me from
college where it it it affects
us internally but I think being in the
presence of other people worshiping
you know when they're shining the light
on God
that reflects some to me as well and
and it just seems i don't know now you
stand up there and
lead singing so you're getting all the
voices coming at you
but I would think you've also got the
discomfort of a lot of people
don't really sing they love to listen
[BD] yeah you know and as a as a worship
leader that's something that you have to
um you have to kind of learn to deal
with because you'll see the guys with
their arms crossed or you'll see
you'll see people not engaging but even
as a as a worship leader as a worship
pastor when i'm in the when I'm in the
congregation
most often I can't sing most often I
become so
overwhelmed by the sound of the people
singing around me and my
my my mind immediately goes if if my
heart is blessed and touched this much
by listening to the people sing around
me
just imagine the heart of God as he
listens to his children sing you know so
there's that balance there's that
balance between participating and
singing but also
taking in what's going on around you and
being encouraged by that as well
[ML] well we're sitting in here talking to
you guys we've got some friends in
who are with us so that we we socially
distant
semi-appropriately um but but it allows
us
to uh realize that we're not just
talking to a camera which is really
tough for me to do
um I don't know about Brent but one of
the people in here is David Capes
who's taught New Testament Greek for
eons and eons
and so I need to ask him in Romans 12:1
the worship word
is that proskuneo in the Greek [DC]  it's not
[ML] get us that word
because what you're talking about does
remind me at least of a Hebrew word
there's a Hebrew word translated worship
that comes from the Hebrew
Shaw-Khaw
which we would say
whoops there we go um the the hebrew
word
means to bow down uh to prostrate
yourself
um it's it's uh what a servant would do
to the king
but it's what someone would do when
they're in awe in front of someone
and you talked about how where you can
be in worship where you're not the
leader
where sometimes you just you can't sing
because
of what's going on inside of you as
you're worshiping the Lord
right it's like [DC] latreuō [ML] yeah it is  latreuō
okay oh you looked at it uh no no no I
was thinking if it wasn't
uh yeah so anyway there are several
Greek words latreuō is one of them
um which which is is
kind of a reflection of what a servant
does to their master
it's a it's a service type of a worship
word
um the other Greek word for worship
that's commonly used
is Proskuneo which just means to kiss
kuneo is to kiss and process toward
it's it's to kiss the ground it's the
same idea of just being face planted
before God but all of those words
involve this idea that we're worshiping
god
in our service in our lips
in our song we're shining his greatness
both in what we say in what we think
and in what we do but we can do that
individually
and then we come together corporately
and there's some special power there
[BD] yeah
[ML] um I don't remember the passage there's a Psalm
that says strength is found before the
throne of God
and when you've drawn us into the
presence of God into the throne
room in worship if you've not had a
chance to worship with Brent
you can do it online and I urge you to
do it in a room where nobody's around to
think you're a fruitcake while you do it
and just sing as soon as you figure out
how to sing those songs and you sing
them
with this gentleman full voice before
the Lord
but you've taken us into the presence of
God and I have walked away stronger
I have experienced that strength
is in the presence of God and when I go
into his presence and praise and worship
I am not the same when I walk out do you
do you find that to be true
[BD] yeah I mean when you are in the presence
of almighty God how how can you leave
the same as you came you know and and
again in that corporate experience
it serves as a reminder of
grace a reminder of life change
a reminder of sacrifice um and
and hopefully the the lyrics that we are
seeing corporately
are encouraging our faith encouraging
our theology {ML] so let's let's talk about the practical
aspects of this then and
if you know one thing that I hear from a
lot of people because  I'm big on singing
and I believe in it and I teach it I
preach it I
just sing to the Lord um it's it's an
instruction in the Bible
it's not a request it's an instruction
[BD] right [ML] we are commanded to sing to the
Lord just like we're commanded not to murder
somebody okay
now I hear a number of people say but I
can't sing do you get that {BD] I do I hear that often uh
you know I the beauty is i it doesn't
matter um I
you know that one of the great things
about corporate worship
as well is people really can't hear you
you know people when people say that I
think what they're really afraid of
is somebody around them hearing them and
and maybe judging them or whatever
because
normally you wouldn't hear that about
about individual worship that's more
about the corporate experience
and and the truth is it's kind of like
it's kind of like when you go
to work out and you're worried
everybody's watching you you know maybe
you you're a little out of shape and
worried about everyone
well really I can't relate not with me
either especially after COVID you know but
really nobody's watching you
at the gym you know they're worried
about themselves same with corporate
worship really people are not
they're not there to listen to you sing
they're there to engage themselves and
um I you know you hear people joke all
the time about make a joyful noise
it's it's kind of like you know when
your child tells you
they love you do you really does it
really matter
how they do that you know does it really
matter if it's not eloquent
does it really matter if it's if it's
you know especially when they're little
if they don't even have all the
vocabulary um
you don't care you know and so it's the
same with singing
God's heart is blessed from from our
heart not necessarily from
the actual sound coming out of our
mouths [ML] and we have an audience of one
[BD] yeah [ML] and if we're singing for the people around us we're singing for the wrong
people anyway [BD] yeah
[ML] I like that I need to I need to I need
to use that add that to my uh
responses um you've got a choir
uh I don't know how many people are in
the choir but there's a bunch because
we've shifted our times for worship for
those of you who are watching
and the class that I normally teach at
11 is moving to 9:30
as we're doing now and then we're
going to have worship at 11
and a number of people in my class
immediately threw up the alarm and said
but wait a minute
we're in choir we've got to get there
and we've got to have time to get there
and get it and ready and da da da da da
so I don't know how many people are
inquired but there's got to be a bunch
because I got a lot of feedback from
that time change
how many people do you have in your
choir {BD] oh
um 700 hundred [ML] so how do you do are
there tryouts how do people
[BD] no there are no tryouts as a matter of
fact
the vast majority of our choir doesn't
read music
the vast majority of our choir is is
less than a professional singer
[ML] and so you let him in anyway [BD] absolutely
[ML] what gives on that I mean yeah well the
[BD] the the choir experience at least at
Champion Forest Baptist Church
is is meant to set the pace
and to to demonstrate visually
demonstrate
and help engage the congregation um it's
not so much about the actual music
it's it's more about the corporate
worship experience
and so anybody who has a heart for the
Lord and
wants to use their voice good bad
doesn't matter uh can jump up in there
and sing with us [ML] oh that's fantastic
and and yet from the perspective of
someone who's at the listening and
singing
end of that you you don't notice
anybody's
out of key out of touch out of rhythm
out of anything
it sounds magnificent I mean the one of
the big
concerns I have at our church is it's
real easy for me to go there you guys
are so good
it's easy to go there and have a concert
experience instead of
me go there singing and engaging and
worshiping the lord
do you struggle with that aspect of it
as well
[BD] yeah we do and one of the things that we
teach our teams
our our lead singers our choirs our
bands orchestra everybody
is that our model of worship corporate
worship
uh some people think that they come in
uh maybe you talked about it last week
even
and they are to sit there and watch and
the people on stage or they are
are the performers and God God is the
audience
well our we invert that and we view
ourselves as the prompters
the people in the congregation are
actually the performers
with God as the audience [ML] wow wow
and so that means you've got to pick
I mean I don't know how you do it I'm
just going to be blunt
we've got a multi-generational church I
can count four generations easy
we've got a multi-cultural church we've
got people that come from um a typical
wide anglo-saxon protestant background
we've got people that come from
african-american traditions we've got
people that come from hispanic
traditions
the hispanic traditions sub break into
central america south america
european uh spanish you've got
such a diverse audience how on earth
do you ever put together a program for
worship
time after time after time again with
that much diversity [BD] i have no idea of work
I mean you know that is a that is the
challenge it really is a challenge
and the beautiful thing about Champion
Forest is
um the the spiritual maturity to
understand
that we are a diverse church which means
um some weeks I may love it some weeks I
may not connect with it
um but but you know trying to
trying to focus on the the theology and
the lyric
and the singability of the song um
that's that's the main focus and then uh
you know trying to be in the big middle
we tell our teams uh if you think of
of worship as a continuum or musical style
as a continuum
uh you've got you know this end way over
here that's super super traditional you
got this one that's
modern and then we just kind of think of
ourselves in the big middle
uh to try to reach as many people as
possible um but you you make a good
point and
um [ML] you've got to get emails all the time from people who say
i didn't like
fair we'll leave that alone um
because I know just from a personal
perspective and I talked about this last
week too
we tend to get set in what we like
and it's really hard for some people to
accept
some newer style music a good friend of
yours and mine on staff is Louis Miori
and Louis is stuck in the 1970s for
music
I mean the Eagles are the pinnacle of
all things musical
and I tried to introduce him to you too
and he was just kind of like I don't
like that stuff
I'm like that is not humanly possible
not to like this music no no if it's not
the Eagles he doesn't want to hear it
and I'm like do you have such bad
musical taste
that you cannot expand and pick this up
and he's kind of like
there's no point life's too short and
and
okay fine listen to your little Eagles
greatest hits album
and miss out on all of the youtube
catalog um
but but I it brings me to this question
you play I mean you sing and lead us
and play such diverse music
where do you get this music from how are
you fed you know
the the older I get the harder that
becomes
[BD] because just like you were just saying
uh the old when I was young I would
spend
all day every day listening to music
researching music trying to find
you know the greatest music I had time
to spend in personal
worship where I could just listen and
and sing all day long the older you get
you know life catches up to you and and
it's harder so one of the things that
uh that I do is I surround myself with
younger folks who are listening to the
to the newest
stuff um but also
um you know there are there are in a
very practical way there are
playlists on on itunes and spotify and
things like that
that are are uh constantly updating and
and putting out new stuff
but also you know we at Champion Forest
we have a pretty big
um one of our priorities is
original songs because we believe that
if God is doing something new in your
life he's giving you a new song
so writing new stuff too that's birthed
out of the journey of our church is
important to us
[ML] that's fantastic I know we've sang
some of those and
and the church has put out you you and
the choir put out some cds and
and things to that effect so
this last week I record these video
thoughts for the day they're just four
to five minute vignettes of
things that I think might be useful for
people to listen we stick them on
youtube and
and have some folks who'll listen to
them um but this last
week what I've done is each day I've
done a scripture with a song
that's an important song in my life
that's that's meant something to me
and and I tried really hard
to I did a um a hymn an old hymn it as
well
um you know and then I did um I tried to
do a
a song from a friend of mine in the
Catholic tradition
John Michael Talbott's healer of my soul
and then I did a song out of the Jewish
tradition Joel Chernoff who sang under Lamb Rivers
of Babylon
and then I tried to do a song out of my
historical contemporary music which was
Keith Green Oh Lord you're beautiful
and then I ended I thought I need a new
song so I did so will I
that Hillsong song which our choir has
just killed that song I mean I'm not
supposed to be audience but i'm just
telling you his audience
it's just like ah but it's one that so
draws me into worship
I can I can that one just
the theology behind that song blows me
away
so give me some of your favorites if you
were gonna be saying okay
here are some songs for people to find
on YouTube
and Brent Johnson's such a wizard he'll
find some of these and link them down
below on this class
give me a couple of songs that you think
just administered to you
[BD] oh goodness Mark that's a hard one uh [ML] yeah and I've given you by the way
zero warning on any of these questions
this little thing is totally live
in terms of he's had no preparation at
all
we're not cutting we're not editing
we're just
running through this for you guys so uh
no this is real time
he had no clue that song that that uh
question was coming
sorry I should have told you that's okay
[BD] this is one I should know it should be
easy right
um 'Waymaker" is a fantastic song
uh 'Waymaker"  miracle worker light in the
darkness
that is that is who you are um Waymaker
is a great song there's another song
called Yes I Will
that really speaks to me and it simply
just it says
yes I will lift you high God even in the
lowest
in the lowest valley there's one called
praise your name
that says I'm going to sing my way out
of the valley and I'm going to shout my
way up to the mountain
and take hold of the promises of of your
word
a lot of the songs that I'm drawn to are
are songs that kind of take my my
personal journey of
ups and downs and someone else who's
more eloquent than me
has put this lyric that I kind of can
adopt and
and make my own prayer make my own story
and so uh songs like yes I will or
praise your name
[ML] yeah those are great so we'll link those
I'm
older than you by a good bit and so my
exposure to
christian music uh contemporary
christian music
started earlier in a sense and and
I'm probably the old people's music in
your mind but um
when did you first start getting exposed
to
newer christian music and who were some
of the artists where you
you started saying hey I'm this is this
is good for me because some people will
look just under artists they'll get on
spotify and type in
an artist who who who has ministered to
you in that way
[BD] uh you mean like in early days [ML] yeah
[BD] uh well I'm I'm a child of the 90s so uh
you know the heyday of contemporary CCM
music
uh Michael W Smith Amy Grant Stephen
Curtis Chapman
Point of Grace those kind of groups [ML] okay
so
I went to church where Michael W Smith
was our worship leader for a while
when I was in college and I remember I
was there on a wednesday night
when he was at the piano
and Amy Grant went to the same church
and he said all right I've just written
this new song
and he says Amy's going to record it and
so we've been practicing it so Amy's
going to come up here and teach it to
you
and uh uh and and he said so it's real
easy and he'd started and first they'd
teach us just a little chorus
and then they teach us and then at the
end he said now at the end
you're I'm going to hit this and there's
a pause before you sing that last note
and you're going to want to sing it
immediately and so
when I hold up my fist that means don't
sing just wait and then I'll pull my
fist down and we'll sing
and it was uh Great Are You Lord and
worthy of honor greater you Lord and
worthy of praise greater you Lord I lift
up my voice
great as the Lord our greater you [BD] which
incidentally started as a contemporary christian song but is
now in our hymnal are you serious that's a whole a whole
other conversation for another time but
wow so the hymnals this this little
puppy's not around that much anymore huh
it really isn't actually I bought this
off eBay they don't even print it
anymore
but I wanted to handle I grew up with
that's it now in the hymnal it is
wow well he uh um
that that that was really cool that's a
cool memory to get to
sing that song before it was yeah you
know it's just just written
um so you listen to that stuff and I say
stuff in a
holy way and then uh you uh
um holy stuff and then you
uh incorporated in
you know that whole Hillsong movement [BD] a
big influence in my life was Darlene
Zschech which the interesting thing about
Darlene is you know she was
she was kind of the uh she started
sort of the modern worship movement uh
but when you sit down and talk to her
I've had the privilege of sitting down
with her a couple of times and
just theology just leaks out of her
uh you know so she's she's she's a
singer but she's very much a
a theologian [ML] does she have a great
Australian accent [BD] she does [ML] so when she
talks theology really sounds good too
yes absolutely
so what was her song Shout To The Lord
[BD] Shout To The Lord
massive song I've told my kids I want it
sung at my funeral
that song came out a good while ago 1993
I think [ML] wow 27 years ago
um well we are almost out of time
so before we leave I want to ask you
this i want you to tell us for those who
are in the Houston area or want to view on
the internet
tell us what we've got uh coming up in
worship right after this [BD] 
10 45 a.m we will
we'll be joining together corporately at
the church if you want to come join us
if not you can catch us online but it's
going to be a great time of celebration
and worship
[ML] and our website is champion forest.org
[BD] yes sir
[ML] and uh you'll be leading singing here
shortly [BD] I will
]ML] and uh did you pick out good theology
and think ability and all the rest [BD] I
hope so
[ML] you gave it a shot that's the plan shot
for the big middle all right would you
say a prayer a blessing over us before
we go out [BD] absolutely
thank you so much goddess thank you for
uh for Mark for
for this class and uh for all those who
are who are watching
Lord I pray that as we gather together
corporately uh or as we gather
individually
virtually Lord I pray that
that the truth of the gospel and the
hope and the redemption
and the the peace and
just the life that we can find I pray
that we would
sing out with all we have in us I pray
that we would offer
our lives as a living sacrifice
of praise and Lord I pray that you would
take all these things
that we've talked about today all the
things that Mark talked about last week
and help us to incorporate that into our
worship and may your heart be pleased
with our song and with our life song and
it's in Jesus name
amen [ML] thank you Brent thank you thank you
Brent God bless you guys
see you next actually watch for the
video thought for the day
starting tomorrow my video thoughts for
the day are going to just be on the
christian basics that will change your
life
so I'll see you tomorrow in the video
thought but if not I'll see you next
Sunday
