okay
why don't we go ahead and get started
it's just about a almost five minutes
after
good morning and good afternoon thank
you so much for joining our event today
i'm mary beth kilten on the cmo for pmx
as most of you know four pmx is a global
brand performance agency and we are
lucky enough to be joined by one of our
partners
at weiland which is an audience and data
company that specializes
in being the best at predicting consumer
response
before we start we of course want to say
that we hope everyone is doing well
your families your friends your
colleagues we all sound like a bit of a
broken record but we know that 2020 has
presented us with
and continues to present us with
unforeseen challenges from an economic
perspective
from a health perspective from a social
perspective
so and at the same time marketers are
being simultaneously
faced with the rise of a different kind
a very different kind of way data can be
used in their marketing programs
so today given that relationships with
consumers are more important than ever
we thought it would make sense to have a
conversation around the future of data
in the marketing ecosystem
um we as i said we have a great channel
that i'm going to get to
that um of experts across martech
data strategy and the intent really is
that
we want to share our insights as well as
brainstorm with you about
not only how we can overcome these
challenges but how we can really
look at this as an opportunity to create
even more connected and more responsible
relationships with our consumers
so here's our panel as i said um it's
going to be moderated by sarah pollack
who's our director of marketing at 4pm x
um we'll have about 45 minutes of
interactive conversation
and then we're going to go to q a um if
you have a question please feel free to
add it in
through the questions function on the
toolbar and then we can certainly answer
at the end of the event
or follow up after so with that let's
get started i'm going to stop sharing my
screen and turn it over sarah
thanks marybeth so i am really happy to
be here
with this incredibly smart group of
panelists today
this is a hugely important topic this
year for businesses i think even before
the onset of covid
and all the challenges we've faced this
year
but getting your data management in
order is a very much a here and now
thing um
not something for the future so we're
definitely going to dig into that
so first i will introduce my panelists
we are joined today by fabio barboza
forwardpmx's head of martech
and fabio plays a crucial role in
helping clients with their martech
infrastructure and data strategy
next i'm so thrilled to have rob reger
chief revenue officer of wiland joining
us today
bringing his expertise at the
intersection of brand and performance,
consumer insights and data next we have
lesley duncan
our associate director of planning and
strategy out of emea and lesley is an
expert at helping brands
understand and apply
consumer insights to drive growth
and finally last but not least we have
tim lippa
who is forwardpmx's svp of strategy
out of north america and tim is an
expert in all things consumer-centric
strategy
thanks for being here everyone oh
tim i think you might be on mute
great so we have a lot to dig into today
um i would love to get started with
all these headlines so
whether it's apple itp which were
headlines from a few years ago
google killing the third-party cookie
idfa changes
all recently last week the big four
being in the hot seat in front of
congress
i think we've been just totally
bombarded with all these headlines
fabio if i could start with you is all
this doomsday talk
here really warranted
Doomsday talk
so yeah let's start with
one step back what are all these changes
in the industry and what are all this
IDFAs, what ITP does with cookies now
chrome is bringing
changes it's our way different ways
ways to
collect data about the user to identify
the user to identify the consumer so we
could continue doing
personalization, measurement and then
targeting the consumer
all these ideas are somehow phasing out
in one way or another not because it's a
technical issue or
industry change on the technical side is
just a response
for the demand towards transparency
we as an industry do communicate
with our consumer and prospects in a
personalized way we invest our media and
we've been doing this through different
channels since the birth of advertising
using cookies, using IDFA, using all
these signals un-consented
is what brought us to this situation
where
consumers demand transparency they 
demand to know
where their data is coming from so
it's not doomsday it's not a negative
impact
it's just changing the way in how
operate as an industry
we, basically we
continue talking to the consumer we as a
brand or in the agency side supporting
the runway to this communication
um it's just not going to have these
shady signals and different ways to
reach the consumer without the consumer
having the concept without having this
transparent relationship
so i don't believe this is a technical
issue to be solved i don't believe is a
way to
try to mitigate in a way or another it's a
way
for us as an industry to grow up and
start to
communicate with the consumer directly
and this communication
responsible this communication should be
owned by the brand
the brand is the
entity communicating is what gonna drive
our change
so it's no doomsday it's just
a different way what is the answer for
all this is work with
personal data and interact with the
person
i think you're going to go to the
details later but
yeah i don't i don't see doomsday, I
just see a change that was necessary and
brings advertising to where it should be
yeah Sara, I also believe that you know
the industry has to embrace this uh
doomsday is a strong word but it arose
because it was a surprise and
forcing a very large group of people to
pivot and to think differently about how
they're doing things i believe that this
is going to lead to a better ecosystem
and you know people are going to find
ways to identify consumers and measure
marketing performance in a little bit
different way than
than we did before and it's going to be
more accurate and more compliant
and probably hopefully more consumer
experience friendly
but um we're uh suggesting that the
industry is already doing so
um there's some recent data that was
reported by martech today that said
more than 70 of digital ad dollars flow
to direct links now
to identifiable consumers rather than
just cookies so there's a lot of
movement already in that direction
and but what's happening is is demand
for first party identity graphs is
really starting to begin
to scale you know i think that when the
news originally came out people were
like oh boy
i need to really work on my first party
identity uh
resolution and and graphical
infrastructure
and they're gonna need to focus on
accuracy and relevancy
and and with signals that are privacy
compliant and i think those are really
positive things for both the industry
and the
the end consumer um insights activation
and measurement
are still going to be big important
campaign pillars more than ever
um but as fabio said i think more second
party partnerships between brand
branded media owners is going to
definitely be more important
in addition to heightening um
enriching first party data and there was
a winterberry study uh
recently uh a survey that was done and
it's even extending down to the chief
data officer role
where um they are really working now and
expanding their roles
trying to break down historical silos
um and owned media to try to identify
um better ways of of
getting to attack this problem yeah
okay so you know a little anxiety but we
are embracing this there's positive
momentum happening
um leslie if i could get your
perspective here
you know i think these announcements
have fueled this movement and these
changes but would you say
that what's happened with covid and the
rapid acceleration of digital do you
think
that um businesses are focused more on
getting this done
more quickly yeah definitely and i think
um there is some resistance but it's
only coming from a place of new
territory brands like us was a little
bit nervous about
they're adapting to change i think it's
just that premise of it's a little bit
scary we don't really know if we're
going to do it correctly so there is a
kind of
kind of step back but actually it's more
opportunity than ever
before to lean into the process and i
think that urgency
only comes from the fact that there's no
better time to do it because of covid
if you start to think about historically
we haven't always got access to the
right data points when we think about
media
it could be a part of a different data
team the data team don't
speak to the tech team and and vice
versa
so i think that now more than ever our
clients are actively actively engaging
in the data and tech conversation um and
i think it's just kind of
put a lot more ownership on the digital
teams within clients because i think
that as of four months ago where
everyone was in lockdown
that was pretty much the only revenue
stream so cmos was really focusing
on um online because that was only like
where everyone was
locked down people only were allowed out
with absolutely necessary
i mean it's sad to say but obviously
businesses that were only bricks and
mortar
they obviously had the hardest time
because businesses that were on the
channel
that you could call clicks and bricks
were able to just shift their focus
online
so whilst it's a topic of data i think
it's also worth mentioning about user
experience and customer experience
because if you think about it websites
or your app is the only gateway or has
been at least and
actually it doesn't seem to be shifting
too much to your customers
so it actually gives you a time to think
about like what are your usps online
what are you actually aren't
like asking of your customers where does
that value exchange which
um fabio mentioned i think it's worth
flagging that in survey data recently
that 46
of shoppers said that free delivery is
their single most biggest factor
to influence them globally going online
so it's a good worth
like to say step back and think okay
historically you would charge for
returns historically you'd like
have like only exchange only so it's a
good time to think about like what are
you offering
and i think that it even comes so more
of when shops reopened
everyone thought that would be an influx
of footfall again
whereas actually in the uk we were down
50 percent year on year
and i think people are more focused on
the kind of leisure element going to
bars
restaurants and really kind of
experiencing their friends and family
and not going to shops because you can
get access to your travel
to your um shopping all online i think
that sixty percent
um i've seen in the gwy data that who
tried a new behavior
um will continue to um facilitate that
behavior
and i think that there is that still
element of 60
uh sorry is that two-thirds of people um
across
18 different countries are still very
nervous and they're very
still scared about this second wave so i
think people aren't really taking that
many risks
um one thing i would like to say and
it's a funny story
but it just shows you about how
important this new data set is
is my great uncle he's 84 and he's
totally technical never like never it
hated it
and he has he now does his food shopping
online
he shops on amazon and he bought his
fridge freezer from john lewis
now you could say that you'd never be
able to get an 84 year old person online
and i think this giving you a real life
example shows that there's new data sets
and new people online that would have
never done before
so i think it's that it's just this
opportunity to
really take some ownership of knowing
who your customers are
so i would just like to say like i think
as an agency and potentially as
customers
we really need to focus on that
retention element of all these new
people that are going online
and the only way to do that is by having
a really cool streamlined data strategy
so um yeah i would say get on top of
your program think about your loyalty
program
and also about how the the shop or the
offline and online experience
um can really play a part in it
yeah absolutely i think that is a huge
behavioral shift that's going to stick
yeah
i think it just you know when people
realize they can get a better experience
online they're going to keep coming
online and it's so important to
understand how to deliver that
experience definitely
tim from a u.s perspective um what are
you seeing
well um so i was going to say leslie
your great uncle is not alone
um i promise i'll try not to do too much
buzzword buzzword bingo here but um
what we're seeing here i think the stat
is that in the us 50
plus of people who are 55 or older made
an online purchase for the first time
during um coved during the last three
four months and a lot of that was in
like cpg or grocery where traditionally
they would just go to retail to get that
and what they're seeing is about half of
those people that went online to make
that purchase
is a sustained purchase um so it's not
going to change it's here to stay
and and just to think about that you
know globally and what that means
we've seen now in china asia emea
pre-post closure retail foot traffic is
down about 20-25 percent
and online traffic permanently is up
about 20-25
so it's a permanent change um and i
think we have to we have to adapt to
that from a data perspective now
um as data marketers or if you're
thinking about it from that perspective
it's a great it's a great permanent
change in the sense that we have more
influence and control
but that does mean i think that people
who haven't quite figured out their data
strategy
and i know it's really difficult right
because we've got we've got
legacy systems we've got erps here comes
the buzzword bingo
you know there's stuff in a sql database
here or there right there's google
stacks
it's a lot of stuff going on um but i
think it's time right now where you have
to figure out what your data strategy is
and
where we come around that it to me it's
like what's loyalty
right loyalty is that whole word we've
always used focusing on your best
customers
how you activate them how you reactivate
them how you nurture them how you create
a good experience and a good journey
across
all your shopping um marketplaces
on-site off-site that's what's going to
be important
right and it's and and that what that
strategy is
because a lot of the growth um since we
had shutdowns
has been from the best customers coming
back and repeat buying
right so that's got to be a focus and
then you know the the golden um
you know the golden egg or the holy
grail is how do we
how do we get new prospects at a better
rate well what we can use for that to
apply to it is going to be how we think
about it going forward
um and it's all at your fingertips the
question is how do we harness it right
so yeah rob from a while in perspective
um would you say that there are certain
verticals that you were seeing that you
know may have been
resistant a little more resistant to
digital transformation in the past and
you know now they're like well now i
really need to figure this out and work
towards this
yeah absolutely i mean we see across all
industries really
um a couple of trends so um
some were earlier than others um right
like um
industries like you know retail
digitally native direct to consumer
brands were like right in there because
their businesses were digital to begin
with
um but there's other industries that
were maybe a little bit slower and some
of it is related to
the demographic question you know
typically
areas like insurance and non-profit has
all have an older demographic
and they've had to increasingly go
digital because their
customers now are increasingly going
digital there's offerings in those areas
they're trying to go
as well but one of the biggest trends
i'll say that i see across
all industries is that brand marketing
and targeted closed loop marketing
across channels is no longer
you know all the way to the left and all
the way to the right and how they're
operating now you know it used to be
reach
reach and scale versus measurable
measurable performance very bifurcated
it's two different things
they're converging now there's increased
responsibilities increased
responsibility on cmos
to have measurable outcomes and improve
those measurable outcomes
so we're seeing a greater focus on
measurability and things like tim just
talked about about measuring across
campaigns and trying to get you know
attribution
properly and also trying to you know
in the cookie-less world it's not going
to be as easy to have a unified
identifier so what are the things that
people are doing um
so i think that you know we're seeing a
definitely a move
in all industries toward that um you
know some of the ones i just mentioned a
little bit behind
but the whole announcement of the um
of the changes going on additionally
with ccpa was a real wake-up call for
everybody saying wow you're
willing to get my data in order um we
see media companies that are monetizing
content a lot
differently now um and you need data to
do that you need to figure out you know
what are the types of advertisers you're
gonna try and attract your
to your site and making sure that
content is relevant to the people that
you
have as a consumer base so i don't think
the industry is sleeping i think people
are adapting
um you know marketers know that the gaps
are going to exist in a world lacking
the universal identifier so
um the inability to easily collect from
wild gardens is going to continue um
and where a lot of this talk is going to
say you know the biggest generalization
beyond that
sort of removal of bifurcation of
performance and
more reach and scale of brand marketing
is there's a lot of talk right now about
consumer experience and
user experience and trust is really a
key word
our clients are asking us to help not
only with data and audiences which is
historically what we're known for but
also
working on business intelligence and
data-driven partnerships
how do we help them figure out which
clients could be
matched together and how do we help
which brands and agencies
can help figure out um what second party
data candidates are the best ones to
choose
so those are the sort of things that
we're experiencing
now obviously in a privacy compliant
environment and making sure that people
can create a relevant experience for
customers
especially for retail brand marketers
right now which
you know in the covet situation has
definitely been a challenge
yeah absolutely so
you know positive momentum incredibly
important changes but i think
they're not easy changes right um
it's not just you know a martech
infrastructure question or
having a better handle on your first
party data but it's really
an organizational shift to a much larger
degree so
tim if i could ask you what are some of
the major
challenges you see brands facing right
now
yeah for sure and i think rob set up
perfectly and i'm you know my sir my
team's got a wall of fame so when you
say
rob said my favorite word bifurcated so
it's like i can't you know
he made my day i'm happy now um but i
think he said it perfectly it's like
what's brand and performance is coming
together you know we're brand
performance agency or brand informants
my favorite smash word
what does agency exactly mean once when
i have something new um
you know i'm not recycling but yeah what
does that mean and i think rob said a
perfect it's like
how all that's coming together right the
journey is is
is different um you know pure brand of
just like
you know reach frequency and go out
there has changed it's how do we bring
that together from audiences and
and it's it's hard like i said before um
there's disparate data sets it's
disjoint
it's it's very it it's very hard to put
it all together
in a coherent strategy that's also
maintainable executable
integratable with creative and messaging
um but that's the key
you know and i think i think my mentor
said this to me about
10 years ago and it pops back up and
he's like
you know how many segments are the right
amount of segments and i'm like
well it should be one-to-one marketing
right and all that fun stuff which we
all know is impossible now but that was
a great
buzzword back then and the answer is it
should be whatever makes sense for what
your business is right
and and what your customer base is and i
just think i think that
how we tie executable audiences together
connect it to that that whole digital
journey now
um and and we iterate and get good good
performance and results and build up
um that's what's important for it and
it's it's putting in place
you know the data the tech what you need
for what your situation is
right you can go out and you know the
biggest not everybody needs a
lamborghini right so how do we do that
and
and execute from it the right way um
that's what's important and then having
a process to
test learn have incrementality around
that when you
when you try to identify these audiences
um that are disjoint that's how you're
gonna win
there's not one thing that's gonna gonna
solve it all for everybody
right fabio what's your view here
yeah um so in the in the matex stack
can get really complicated and we start
we
as an industry have been discussing
about cdp's
data identity resolution platforms
and data cleanups and yes
we need all this and and coming from the
principle that
the universe identifier that rob said
earlier
um we have a lack of a universal
identifier in the digital industry
i think actually we do we do have one
universe identifier that
is fabio the person in the moment we
talk about first part data we are
communicating using this data
we know who fabio is so what is the
challenge for the brandon mr tech
perspective
it's not trying to stitching the data
and making
the building dmps on the go on the cloud
is have a clear understanding that i'm
talking to fabio
this is my identifier i'm responsible
for this data
and i need to build a new structure that
can handle
their personal the personal data and
that i can activate that i can manage my
consent and so on
for a lot of brands i talk they can
start talk about identity graphs and
cdps
and x y and z and yes is necessary
identity graphs
cbp the whole pyramid of
how you're gonna interact with the first
parade is necessary
but as uh tim mentioned no one needs the
lamborghini and i believe actually
everybody needs a lamborghini
but let's work for the lamborghini
what that means is let's take the stack
here
you have let's see in-house you talk
about for smart data
so it's about the in-housing process
let's make
the most let's apply a data strategy
that has a long term and a short-term
road map
and throughout of this process you what
we are doing you are
changing the way you operate you change
the way that
the brand dialogue with its customers
change the mindset in the brand i think
team mentioned about the need of a
cross-channel interaction
so yes we are talking about first part
data but this is a cultural shift
that has to happen in the brand itself
in the agency side
that can be gradually put in place with
the existing stock
adding more elements and eventually get
the lamborghini they end with an
identity graph and
orchestration cross-platform and so on
but
having analytics platform, ad server crm
start to interact with data playing with
uh so interact with the wall gardens to
your data cleaning rooms
measure that audience segment better get
the return
change the way you you activate
change the mindset prove the value and
start to work hours
um yeah i mean for me i just feel like
brands don't really know
how powerful and rich their first party
data is and they just
at the moment aren't making the most of
it so it's yes it's really important to
obviously have a good consent management
you have that opt-in choice at least in
europe anyway
but i think it's about gaining that
trust and that relationship
like if you are taking someone's email
address and mobile
that value exchange it's not just about
that weekly newsletter anymore
i think it's about really kind of
embracing the brand and consumer and
making sure that there is that kind of
like found respect for both brand and
consumer
and i think that when we talk about like
data and we talk about digital maturity
it's worth saying that only two percent
of businesses
according to bcg report are at that
multi-moment fully digital mature
there's still a lot i'd say less about
63
are still below emerging so i think it's
more just that
the fact that whoever's here listening
to this webinar now
you're you're attending the right type
of events just continue to lean in
keep pushing because it's now now is the
time to take ownership
take advantage of these challenges turn
them into solutions
work with your legal team make it easy
to update your privacy policy
and and actually think about your
partnerships and almost make sure that
they're also
accountable for and share your privacy
values
yeah and one one quick tech i'm sorry
sorry to go off script here for a second
but
fabio has helped me see the light um you
know first party data isn't just i'm a
i'm a i grew up in retail and in brand
marketing
so first party data isn't just your
transactional log of who your customer
is and what they bought
right it's what we know on site about
them it's what else we know about in
market it's all those different signals
so i just think thinking about it
differently and how you're approaching
your your audience your message your
target putting that together
and and bringing it up a level is going
to be the new the new
norm and all the things like they said
are absolutely correct about
identity graphing and connecting in
walled gardens but i think i think
everybody needs to start thinking about
it that way um which
this has been insightful for me so thank
you for that
i know but are you talking about a
physical lambo are we talking tech still
yes and if anybody from lamborghini is
on we absolutely need it and want it so
it's good
well thanks sam actually i think that's
a that's a good segue to the next
question
um rob if i could take it over to you i
think
there's some real anxiety about how data
can and will be used you know what are
the opportunities there what am i still
allowed to do from a
third party data perspective um do i
have to be totally reliant on first
party data and what does that actually
mean so can you talk a little bit about
in the future how you see brands
utilizing first-party second-party and
third-party data
yeah and you know right now maybe
at least in the u.s the confines aren't
extreme but they're going to be getting
more
more extreme and we're soon be working
within those
those confines i think it's important
not to close ourselves off
today from what's possible now do what
you can do today
to um enhance your um
your customer um identities and
and you know there's a phrase you know
creativity is white space well i think
it was
um i can't remember who it was but
basically um
there's a greater uh scale of creativity
when you're operating within the box
and how do we solve challenge challenges
that we know around these
these types of data sources there's ways
to direct your second party data
direction with your first party data it
can inform you what type of second party
data partnerships you want to form
and for example how do you create what i
would call partner relevancy
you know you can use all three of those
types of data to fill your gaps in today
to make actionable decisions whether
it's targeting or segmentation or
building personas
or using behavior data um whatever
whatever it may be because the world's
going to move
to already has moved to where consumers
have more control
they're desiring more trustworthy
relationships
and i think what's going to happen
and what is sort of already happening is
you're going to start to see future
collaborations
of brands to share their data in
complementary fashion
and to uh you know this is going to have
the indus this would be massive change
in the industry you're going to have
people who
historically weren't talking to each
other but where there could be
complementary relationships
um and it's going to result in a whole
new kind of different types of marketing
so i think there's gonna be more
industry collaboration and partnerships
and it's gonna get people talking
as far as uh consumer experience goes
which is part of this
there was a pwc study that found that 65
of customers said a positive experience
with a brand
was more influential than just general
grade advertising
so to me this suggests how do you how do
you create that positive experience well
brands need to use first party data to
create a trusted relationship
it can be enhanced with second and
third-party data and there can be
partnerships that happen still
today you can prepare yourself for
tomorrow by being actionable with all
three types of data
um you know because me as a consumer
whatever signals you know about me
should and maybe in the past didn't as
much but now
will enhance not detract from my
customer experience with you as a brand
and as a consumer i'm okay with that
because i permitted that i permitted
allowable use of certain um certain
types of data
so that i can have a better customer
experience and that's where things are
going so that's why i think i'm very
positive around it
um you know and in a nutshell my advice
to all the folks on the phone
is continue to work on your identity
backbone that's a forest
called i'm using all three types of data
that's permissive
uh relevant and actionable and you know
that's what we help
our our clients do
yeah and i had a lot of discussion with
team in the last few months
about third party data and the
collection and the usage
in the moment you were working with
first part data
you have your data set in place as a
brand your objective is collecting more
first update have a better interaction
use the second party data what rob said
the interaction between brands the
interaction with
retailers online retailers have a wealth
of knowledge
of of consumers a brand that sells in
a retailer they know their first part
data against
their own brands what a retailer website
has is the knowledge of
that consumer with that brand that brand
and that brand
these relationships start to get really
powerful
amazon build the empire on that
but now brandon's gonna start to
interact with
these retailers interacting with other
partners and
start to collect data and interact with
the consumer in other ways as well
having pii before the user learning to
the site
before the user purchase through
chat box and
sign up forms and other added value
and other programs you're going to start
to increase this data set
and they will start to understand the
consumer that what becomes really
important is activation
activating brand and activating inferno
we start to be more intrinsic
connected and these budgets and the way
that you activate these components
start to have a secondary kpi that is
a data collection and third party data
doesn't need to be that dodgy pixel that
we had in
in websites around there are consumer
insights there is research
data there is a lot of ways to acquire
and leverage data with your first card
data that is consented that's
transparent
that we're going to enhance and from
that enhancement
going to a wall garden and use their
second part data to extend and build
look-alikes and then customize their
uh become much more streamlined
i believe that the biggest challenge is
the brand and the agency's understanding
of
this interconnectivity of activation
data retention
and the traditional kpis of brand
performance
yeah i think it's it is interesting to
think about that nuance between
third-party data targeting and
third-party data insights
and using that to really enhance the
first part exactly
and we discussed that a bit of today and
collecting data in a shady way for
targeting later is is that it's not
going to happen again right
for enhancing sites and extenders of
different
different interactions right
so on that point wesley
if you could share being that the
traditional way of targeting is going
away
do you think it's going to be more
difficult for brands to reach their
customers
in a targeted way at scale
um i suppose the short answer is yes um
i think the only reason why i've become
more difficult
because at the moment the choice of
third-party data
is really super accessible and i don't
necessarily think it would be harder to
reach but it's just going to be the
different
types of data you're leveraging to kind
of fabio's point the fact that you're
going to
utilize data driven insights through
panel data so part of
harris poll who's our sister part of our
stagwell tech
they can dig into customer data so
what's their behavior
their lifestyle preferences do they
prefer be on on a desktop or an
app and what are even down to their
attitude statements like do they prefer
tv ads over the social media ads so
i think there's going to be a lot more
in terms of accountability on the media
planners both in terms of offline and
online
to really truly understand who your
customer is i think it's fair to say to
any brands that are listening like
don't ever think that you always know
who 100 of your customers are
because i would always say like adopt a
test and learn strategy
always kind of sign up for being more
innovative try new formats try betas and
alphas because
that is really how you get heads and of
your competitors is by trying to push
the agenda
and i would also probably say that even
the fact that showing targeted
and scale in the same sentence they're
two different kpis so
i think that sometimes we forget that we
do need to think about them differently
because you can't really have a
hypertardity campaign and then have a
with scale so vice versa they kind of
naturally don't fit
one in the same and i think that kind of
alludes to the fact about having the
correct measurement framework in place
that matches up to your media objectives
matches up to your business objectives
and i think now more than ever it's only
more prevalent because
of third-party data cookies kind of
being
dead in in a couple of years but as kind
of
um rob's alluded to it gives us this
opportunity
to create these really amazing lean
partnerships that have never really been
useful before so if you think about what
second party data is
it's still first party data it's just
someone else's first party data
it's someone else's demographic data or
their site data or their behavior data
so i think it creates this like really
good opportunity to capture data signals
or search signals
that in a in essence wouldn't
necessarily be available before
so that is where you kind of create it
at scale and where you get
personalization at scale
so it's fun to think like as brands okay
well who has really complementary
data points who could tell me something
interesting about
my my brand who um i don't know yet so
i think it's not to say that there won't
be third party data
i think the usage uh would obviously go
down because the richness goes down
but i think it's going to be more um the
people that are accountable for
keeping it the recency and the freshness
of the data so anyone that potentially
as i say uses survey data
or that part exchange data that's where
the kind of um
relationship goes so i would kind of
just say like
as i say don't think about all your
customers in all walks of life
more now more than ever and actually
start to leverage your first party data
um now because this is the time to do it
start testing out
really segmented lookalikes because
before we
over like at the moment we do overly on
third party data so let's get to a point
where
you can start to leverage look-alikes or
or things like that from your first part
of data because then you're already kind
of ahead of the curve
yeah so no reason to go back to the days
abroad
targeting rules right
no and i i would just throw into it real
quick um
you know it we should do as much as we
need to do and not do any more one of my
famous like timisms right
so like you know whatever that means for
for getting newer
or converting loyalty and i think what
it's going to be is
it's still going to be very granular
like leslie said i have my own opinions
about look-alikes because to look-alike
is only as good as
whatever you're liking off of so i mean
i promise i won't soapbox that that
could be the rest of the call but um
i would just say that like you know i
think what's important here is that
figuring out what the triggers are right
if it's someone's gonna go
on vacation and they're gonna buy
something as part of that and this is
the trigger you see to get at that
audience
and then you can deliver them thoughtful
creative message
you know and and connection to the
product right because it is about people
and about your products
it's about connecting the two that's
what's going to be important
yeah and i've just said it isn't just
about product i feel like
we've probably over um compensated
retail like it can be with travel
it can be with insurance it can be with
loads of different verticals
and i know we probably spoke bit will
retail because it's just the kind of
um the one that as kind of rob mentioned
that has had to accelerate
quicker than any other because they
there is no other opportunity to shop
yeah that's a really good point um so if
we could bring the conversation
back uh for a minute to these changes
and all the headlines
um you know we definitely agreed that we
as an industry should be embracing this
it's about improving the consumers
experience our relationship with
consumers
we want the consumer to win in the end
but speaking of winners and losers there
have to be
some winners and losers here in this
situation you know how does this shake
out
for major players in the industry from
the wall gardens to the publishers to
the ad tech players
um second party data co-ops are there
winners and losers here rob
not sure i understand well jimmy didn't
um you know i'm an optimist i believe
there's a way for
for everyone to win here but yeah um you
know my advice to folks on the phone
is you know this is ultimately going to
create a better ecosystem at the end of
the day
and these changes are happening whether
we like it or not
and it's not just about complying with
consumer wishes there's a lot more
enforced accountability you know
externally
um with some of the privacy compliance
regulations coming down but
i you know my advice is to internally
make it a priority to get your house in
order so that you can be on the winning
side
um and what what does that mean well it
means thinking beyond traditional
matching identifiers like mobile ids
location ids
connected tv hashed email etc
the holy grail here is a single customer
view across all channels and touch
points
right so how do we do that um you know
i'd encourage the folks listening how do
you use a variety of relevant
permissive signals to get a real picture
of a real person
and um because enhancing that is going
to be an ongoing process
and an ongoing effort on your part but
also you need to build it so you can
maintain that view of the customer over
time
and have it be dynamic so that it can be
enriched
you know my my mantra would be to answer
that question get the data right
get the identity right across channels
get your customer experience right and
be compliant and then you'll be
successful to deliver a personalized
meaningful brand experience
uh for your brand and and be on the
winning side
is who is giving something in exchange
against data
um publishers have been doing this for a
while now
i remember when the first publisher put
a paid wall i think
hearing okay with the times and everyone
moaned and so on
but i'm happy to i'm happy to give them
api
to to the newspaper that i read my news
they are
getting paid to write news and i
want to access the data i want to access
that information
and if the price is a pay wall or
surrender api i'm happy to surrender my
pii pay
let's see the new york times i was
talking to you sarah you did bring this
to the attention that they phase out
their part data
and they are starting to to work closer
to
the added value that the consumer i have
no issues with
google targeting they give me gmail for
free and they give them a lot of
services for free
so we're gonna win yes wall gardens they
provide a massive service everyone use
publishers and anyone that is giving
value to their interaction
this data is really valuable and can be
trade
retailers amazon has been meaning from
ages they have
huge amount of data sets and they do a
lot but retailers can get specialized
and they can start to understand their
data better
and one day they're going to realize
actually this is a huge asset
so anyone that is
basically giving something in exchange
of
of data and these data gonna have
interest to brands somehow and then
start go back to
what rob was saying the relationship
between partners
and data training of the data trading on
the second
party market so
yeah big winners big changes i believe
that
is exciting not doom and gloom
who wasn't quick to to change their mind
shift
who is still doing retargeting like
crazy and
spray and pray and actually not driving
traffic or collecting like so we lose
yeah i would argue break down the silos
because if you remain siloed in your
organization
that's only going to hold you back
you've got to get talking to each other
and that that's the collaboration piece
that's perfect yeah i always bring this
but as a matter of fact i feel like we
were talking
yeah all right well
about ten of um i think that this has
been really really
good discussion i think what businesses
really want to know though
you know there's buy-in in all this
right this is the right thing to do
better ecosystem for it
uh what am i supposed to do now what are
the deliverables
how am i supposed to tackle this what
are the things i can do now
let me get to this one
um yeah for the the first step
is is in-house where you're not like
stuck make
take advantage of this put a data
strategy in place
with what exists and put a roadmap start
to
building that uh that
system that you can manipulate for start
data
start leveraging the secondary data
start to streamline your media
activation
with the mindset of data collection as
well especially brand activation not as
a primary kpi of course
but having the secondary kpi there
and then is what rob said is channel
integration on from planning stage
onwards
because i had a meeting with the team
academy of the pc team displayed in a
social team
before a client engagement and they all
deliver their strategies
and the my input to the meeting was
guys have you realized you're talking to
the same
person and then yeah okay so talk to
charlie
um because the channel strategy and the
channel budget eventually gonna start to
become
one we're talking to the same people
it's it's a person is no longer a
identifier
yeah i'll just say i think it's
important to you know we've got to
embrace change
um i think it's important for for brands
i
mentioned earlier about breaking out of
silos engage with your partners engage
with your agency engage with other
brands
it may feel like right now we're kind of
building the plane in the air
because there's not like an immediate
go-to
solution um you know that's the same for
everybody it's not a one-size-fits-all
strategy depending on you know every
brand has a different strategy
but the cookie crisis uh if you want to
call it that is just another window of
opportunity for us all
um as responsible data stewards um
responsible with compliant marketers
um but in the end we're going to improve
this ecosystem no matter what because
we've got to yeah
this is really powerful you know how can
we
as an industry be looking at each other
to help figure this out in new ways huge
opportunity there
rob and i are going to exchange
euphemisms after the call because i
usually say
building the bike as we write it but i
like the plain one too so we can all
have another session on that
awesome guys well um i do want to leave
some room for audience q a
but before we go to that um
if you had a final thought you could
share with the audience here
excuse me um what would you want to
leave them with
yeah i would just say i would just say
you have to have a connected strategy
right
the more you can do to connect your
business strategy to your data strategy
um and then set it up to make it to make
it be
real and possible is is what's important
and where to start i kind of saw one of
the questions come in so
that's kind of like a precursor to that
but i would just say like
it really is you know without shameless
plugs here as little as i can
sarah um you know that that's part of
kind of how we tackle it right it's like
let's
figure out what the white space is
because we know some people may have
more or less data or or you might be
direct seller you might be
completely channel based sale right and
you're not going to have that
so how do we figure out the white space
how do we put it at actionable segments
that we can test
so we can execute media get real results
and then know what worked or didn't
um so that we're doing better with it
that that's to me the key
to the whole thing no matter what the
solution is
yeah i'll echo that and just you know
being specific to data
um this is kind of a a little bit maybe
of a
of a cliche but um you know more data is
not always better data but relevant data
is the best data
so when you're working with data and
you're working with data partners you're
working with you know
your agency when you're trying to find
in that white space what's
what's important i think relevancy is
really important what's the relevance of
your brand you've got to communicate
over communicate what your van brand
value proposition is what you're trying
to do what your growth goals are all
those things are important as feeders
into it
and it goes beyond just a single
campaign i think um
you know as as being really responsible
with data means looking holistically
um at data but also how does it how does
it um
fit in with your with your brand
objectives
so that's just something i'll add
yeah it's good advice well just on the
vertex side
um start with what you have in place
by integrating what we have by starting
with the basics in place
the active you change the activation you
change the way that you're operating
and aim for the lamborghini yes one day
they again but there is a lot can be
done in the short term
and these will change the mindset
throughout
the process yeah i think just to end
that then
i just think it's worth remembering that
the customer
is the purpose of your day's work you
shouldn't
treat them as an interruption of it so
as brands as
agencies as clients services whatever
you're doing
you absolutely should be putting the
customer at the heart of what we're
doing because this is why we've woke up
today and got on this webinar to listen
right so
um use think about data as your
customers
awesome um that was great guys we
so we do have a couple of questions
actually from the audience
um so we'll take some time to answer
those first question
is what's the advice for startups that
don't have ample first party data or b2b
companies with a small
client base
i would say uh probably invest in a
social listening tool
um just because there's a lot that you
can get
from just listening to your industry so
if
for instance you're obviously a startup
and you're coming into the b2b space
um thinking about that and they're not
even too expensive but you can get
keywords to then
imply on your messages you can
understand where they are or are they
active on twitter are they active on
facebook um
and then i would also say is like as a
b2b
become a brand publisher think about
your content that you're seeding
thinking about your presence within the
space because it kind of goes back to
what we've been talking about
is is that value exchange you kind of
get
through word of mouth you get through
recommendations thinking about your
trust pilot or thinking about anything
that portrays you to that customer
it is about like offering them something
so if you know what your unique selling
point is
shout about it because then soon enough
people will start to gain traction
but yeah i would say like think about
how people are talking about your
industry and your competitors
because competitors if they've been a
long round for a long time they've been
doing something right
so we have this there's a book that i
read about rebel ideas
and it's about combination innovation so
if someone has a really good idea
think about how you can adapt it evolve
it and then run with it
i'll just add to that too from a data
perspective
you know you rather than if you're not a
big established brand
their challenge is they've got a ton of
data it may not be organized in the
right way there may be data in different
places
and you don't have a unified uh
persistent key or it's just an id to
bring the data together so
um you're starting if you're a startup
now you've got the opportunity to
have cross-channel identification
right from the get-go and depending on
the different channels you're using to
market
if you can set it up now it's a whole
lot better to set your architecture up
now to make sure that you're going to be
able to have
that single view of the of the customer
that every that's the holy grail as
opposed to having to
get pieces of the body together they're
scattered all around the
playing field so um you know don't don't
fret you've got opportunity actually to
give you a leg up
on established brands if you do it
smartly yeah and i think
i think startup and b2b are the hardest
right so that's a great question
um i think leslie said it perfectly the
social and in market is important
whatever we can do
there's tons of in-market audience that
you can apply to it right based on like
competitive
and look alike um i know we don't have
time but there's a lot of stuff we could
talk about there with that
um and i think like rob said getting a
partner um
you know like that that can they can put
that together um there's always a way to
get at the data right and we we use a
bunch of tools to
to do that in different ways so i mean
but yeah there's ways to do it but
i think those are those are perfect
answers to that
remember second part data
one data is people forget is ppc search
data
they give a wealth of data by starting a
pc activation campaign and collect data
about yourself
uh and performance and how they
incorrectly
um we do have another question actually
segues kind of nicely
so for an organization that's struggling
with silos and competing budgets
what are some of the recommendations you
have about being able to use first party
data
with a true cross-channel approach
uh well it's interesting that you i'll
just take this from a from a data
perspective and since i talked about
silos
you know we do spend time in our
organization
at companies trying to get the right
people in the room so that they can talk
to each other
um you know you'd be surprised at how
many well-established brands it probably
is some of the older well more
well-established ones that are more
siloed
um but you've got to have uh consensus
with decision
making because otherwise you're going to
have the i.t person fighting against the
marketing person
because they're not allowed to use you
know certain data in certain ways and
um for an internal reason not because
they're not because a marketer isn't
allowed to do it
so i think getting getting the right
people in the room and talking about
we've got to be in this together is
really important
um now that being said um
you know maybe there's ways that you can
collect
uh data that you did historically in a
different form
um and you know those are more kind of
specific scenarios but
um if that i would love to talk to that
person offline if we don't have time
yeah yeah there's there's the politics
part of it which i think you dressed
well
and then there's the then there's the
unified view of how the performance is
right which isn't
which isn't easy right and it's right
attribution isn't the only way
we're gonna we're gonna fix that right
um otherwise it would have been fixed
already so um it's really i just think
it's the merging of brand performance
too
right um and the more you can do to
think of that holistically
within your company bringing people
together that's the one side because
budgets live in different departments
and finance so i won't go there
but um yeah i think the more you can
think of it as
here here is our our brand performance
of how to activate on a customer
um that's where it starts it's not ecom
or brand
or content or influencer and
that is the role of the agency because
the agents
can drive their activation whether
that's very
decided people they
just can drive this strategy i would
just also mention
like everything can pretty much be
bought programmatically now
and tv over the top tv connected tv
digital out of home podcast youtube you
name it digital radio
so it's more about kind of not
forgetting the fact that
brand might or tv budget would have been
siloed like it's more about just like
actually using this to think about
budget fluidity
think about how you can generate media
generated data that is actually
first party data so it's more that your
front end doesn't need to
change but the back end in which you're
doing it to connect the guts and
generate that data should change
and there's inventory there i have my
mlb tv running on my phone and
it went to a commercial app and there
was nothing and i'm like what is this
it's a blank screen
so it's a good way to you know to get a
tim at least
um so we are just at about time um
for everyone who's tuned in we will be
distributing this recording after the
event
um so rob lesley tim fabio thank you so
much
for being here thank you it's been great
thanks everybody
