
English: 
Hello everyone.
Thank you for your patience.
We'll spend the next hour or so
with the musician Otomo Yoshihide.
Mr. Otomo Yoshihide.
Hello everyone.
And I'm Kunisaki, your host for today.
I'm the executive editor
of Sound and Recording Magazine,
which is a monthly mag
for people who create music.
First, by way of introduction,
I'd like to tell you
a little bit about Mr. Otomo here.
I said earlier that 
Mr. Otomo is a "musician",
but he actually has many faces.
First, he's a guitarist.
Yes, I play the guitar.

English: 
He plays the guitar.
And he's also a turntablist.
I'm probably one of the first in Japan
to use turntables in that way.
So a turntablist. Recently,
he's worked on sound installations.
Yes, I have.
Installation art, as it's known.
What else do you do?
I write soundtracks for movies and TV.
He's a soundtrack composer.
I'm also a producer.
Not only of music but also of events.
And that's about it.
He's involved in a wide range
of activities, so
it's hard to cover them all one by one.
But first, could you start by introducing
some of your music to us?
Right. My music first. OK.
What should I start with?
Then... If you don't mind,
I'd like to start with this.

English: 
This is Fukushima in 2011.
To elaborate, the 3.11 Earthquake
that struck also triggered
a nuclear disaster. The habitability
of Fukushima City was a major concern.
This is the outdoor festival
that we held in Fukushima City.
Please take a look.
This is what it was like.
The festival itself took place throughout
the entire day, and my part
was for about an hour.
This is a little excerpt from that.
I performed with the people in the 
audience. The audience included
regular, ordinary people as well as
musicians who participated
like Ryuichi Sakamoto and
other famous people like that.
The sound recording's not good,
but here's an excerpt

English: 
from the TV documentary.
Let me show it to you.
Thank you so much for coming! 
This is "Project Fukushima"! 

English: 
This is probably what my collaboration
with you will be like.
There were 280 players participating
in this festival.
I'll skip ahead.
I conducted a group of regular people,
including those who can play
and those who have brought instruments
there for the first time.

English: 
That's Kazumi Nikaido, a famous Japanese
singer. Skipping ahead...
I used several hand signals to conduct
an orchestra that anyone,
no matter what their playing skill,
could participate in.
I'll explain why
I decided to do this later.
That dancing person is Kazumi Nikaido
who I mentioned earlier.
The recording is lousy
so it might be hard to grasp.
The person I gave the loudspeaker to is
Michiro Endo, the pioneer of punk rock
in Japan. He's 64 years old now.

English: 
It's not coming across but it was really
loud, although everything was acoustic.
Apparently there were
about 16,000 people there.
I'm pretty sure this was the first big
event held in Fukushima post-disaster.
Sorry for the lousy sound.
In that segment, you were using your hand

English: 
to give out various cues like a conductor.
Did you and the musicians...
well, everyone who participated,
rehearse beforehand to match
the signal and action?
Yes, we did.
We rehearsed for about an hour.
Only my part was shown just now,
but the conductors interchanged
and each one could conduct
according to his or her own rules.
Like what, for example?
Really simple ones.
One finger means a short sound. Bam.
Five means a long sound.
Keep going, and stop.
Three means beat out a rhythm.
This means copy somebody else's sound.
This means keep doing what you're doing.
This means stop.

English: 
It's possible to do various things with
only about eight different signals.
So both professional and amateur
musicians came to participate?
And even those
who'd never played before.
Is it possible to make music
even with such people in the group?
That's what I'm aiming for. For example.
An orchestra typically has a musical goal
to achieve,
so the players strive to improve and
be creative. But this isn't the same.
Unless everyone can participate
with the skills they have,
a hierarchy is born between the players
and non-players, which I didn't want.
I find that strange.
You're a professional musician.
So that hierarchy is your livelihood.
Right. The hierarchy is more lucrative.
Isn't it? So why get rid of it?

English: 
Musical hierarchy isn't all bad.
Everyone here aspires to be a pro,
and by doing things that amateurs can't,
they might create great music
and maybe make money.
But music isn't something
that's reserved for professionals.
Music was originally... how to put it?
It was something everyone did.
In particular, before records began
to be sold and radio was born,
I think performing music was more common.
During the last hundred and something
years of music being a commodity,
professionals and amateurs have become
split. Especially in Japan.
Ordinary people don't do music
besides karaoke.
Karaoke is all right,
but over the past decade or so,
I've been thinking that
there should be places where

English: 
ordinary people can enjoy music
in other ways.
And this orchestra is such an attempt.
Is it an orchestra?
It's an orchestra. Though the style was
different at first and I tried other ways.
When I first went to Fukushima
after the disaster...
I grew up in Fukushima, so I frequented
there post-disaster to help.
There's no music scene or pro musicians
to speak of in Fukushima
so making music with the people there
meant involving mostly amateurs.
So I had to devise a way for
those people and the pros from Tokyo
to stand on equal ground
and make interesting music.
Especially because this was
the first post-disaster festival,
the people in Fukushima had to stand up
and do something about their plight,

English: 
not wait to be saved or be moved
by some musicians from Tokyo.
To achieve that through music,
the people of Fukushima had to do it.
To participate and make music.
They had to create the festival itself
with their own hands.
So for this festival,
they did all the preparations themselves.
Making way for a system like that
was the important thing.
From what we just saw,
everyone who participated
looked like they were having
loads of fun. Was it a blast?
It was a blast, but at that time...
Honestly speaking,
the situation was dire. It still is.
Certain parts of Fukushima
are off-limits because of radiation
and while the festival grounds
was miraculously not so bad,
we had to decide if people should
gather there.
Whether or not it should be done.

English: 
Exactly. Of course it was something
that had to be discussed,
and we had to measure radiation levels.
The reason why we started this
was because the government
had been hiding the radiation levels
for a month or two post-disaster
and I felt something needed to be done.
To set up a system where we all
could measure radiation levels ourselves
and make our own informed decisions.
An outdoor festival seemed the best way.
To show that there were places
where the radiation was low enough?
That too, but more that it's OK
to measure radiation on your own.
Instead of waiting.
Exactly. Measure it and discuss
the result with scientists
and other people. We had a table
at the festival to do that.
To discuss the propriety of the event?
Right. We were encouraging people

English: 
to think. Not to tell people
that it was OK to live in Fukushima,
but to use the event to present a way
for people to think about
how to live their lives under such
circumstances. Oops, e-mails coming in.
So that was the purpose of the event.
Something we tried out at the festival
at the time was the project
to cover the grounds with furoshiki cloth.
Today's audience wouldn't know...
Furoshiki is hard to explain.
They might not get it.
I'm sure the interpreters are explaining
what a furoshiki is right now...
Um... not this one.
Sorry, where would that be...
I have photos of the furoshiki somewhere.
They're nodding. They've explained it.
Really? Thanks. Hold on one second.

English: 
I'm not very organized
so I can't find the photos.
Where are they? This one? Ta-da!
There we go. The furoshiki.
As the interpreters have explained,
a furoshiki
is a piece of cloth about this big
that's traditionally used for wrapping
and carrying things.
Most Japanese households have one.
We sewed lots of them together
to cover the entire grounds,
over 6,000 m2 of grass.
This is a photo of what it looked like.
This is a photo of the process.
Can you show it? It's on.
It's on over there, too.
We took pieces of cloth about this big
and dozens of people
sewed them together
over the course of three weeks.
They're laying them down before the
festival. The reason we did this was,

English: 
in August 2011 in Fukushima,
most of the radioactive isotope cesium
was on the ground.
Not in the atmosphere.
So to prevent the cesium on the ground
from flying up and getting on people,
we laid down sheets of furoshiki
to cover the entire area. Like this.
This is the sewn-together furoshiki.
By covering the surface,
we wanted to visually demonstrate that
radiation existed in Fukushima.
So we held the festival after taking
necessary precautions.
When we promoted it,
we never once said
that it was safe to come.
We presented the accurate radiation levels
and said there'd be risks.

English: 
You gave the facts and
said you'd try to reduce the risk
by covering the area with furoshiki to
prevent cesium from getting on people.
To prevent inhaling or ingesting it.
We also checked all the concession
that was sold at the festival
and presented the data.
I'm sure we were the first to be open
about that in Fukushima.
But at the same time,
though the event was in Fukushima,
not all of it is contaminated. We chose
a place with relatively low radiation.
People live in areas
that are far more contaminated,
so I thought it might actually be better
for them to come. So a lot of thought
went into this festival and
the process was kept open.
Why did it have to be a furoshiki, though?
There are more useful materials
to cover the ground.

English: 
At first we considered
using plastic sheets to do this,
but Fukushima City gets really hot.
If we put down plastic sheets in August,
everyone would die from the heat
before being harmed by radiation.
So it had to be cloth.
And Japan has a common saying,
"Spreading a big furoshiki."
And what "spreading out
a big furoshiki" means is that
you're setting goals that you can't
achieve. So it was a double meaning.
We were criticized a lot for that.
But the people living in Fukushima
need humor to keep going
so we chose "Big Furoshiki"
as the title for the event,
which was a word that a Japanese person
would notice as a bit of a joke.
Also, it was better to spend
some time on it,

English: 
with people cooperating. Buying the cloth
would be meaningless.
If some supplier...
...did all the work, it'd be simple.
But we thought the process should take
a bit of effort, so we got people
to donate the cloths and
sew them themselves.
We thought it'd be great if both amateur
and pro musicians could all
stand on it and make music together.
Then the orchestra that
you'll be doing with this audience
will be an extension of that festival?
It's an extension.
It's been four years, so
the method's changed a bit.
Plus, most of you here aren't amateurs,
and can play instruments to some degree
so I'll probably
raise the bar a bit. Also,
I don't want just one person to be
in the center controlling things,
so the conductors will interchange.

English: 
Why do you want them to change?
Because I feel uncomfortable
always being in the center,
so there's that, and the music changes
when the people change.
It's far more interesting that way
with this method.
You mentioned types of music. While
there's the kind with precise scores
to be performed according to
the composers' intents,
the kind of music that you described
is spontaneous
and unintentional. You don't know how
or where it will end up.
No, I don't.
Does that...
Can't be reproduced, either.
So that kind of music give you pleasure
as a musician?
Of course. I wonder why...
Probably because my influences
were originally

English: 
free jazz and improvised music.
And also psychedelic rock.
So none of these styles of music
have scores, which is probably
the biggest reason. The other one,
and this most likely has to do
with my character, is that
I get bored when I get people
to reproduce something
that I completed in my head.
You get bored.
Very quickly. It's far more interesting
when the unexpected occurs,
and it doesn't work if I do it by myself.
If I do a solo with my guitar,
it'd be nothing more than what I do.
So I love making a machine run wild
or getting feedback on a guitar
because I can't control them.
Making music with other people isn't
about control. They bring other ideas,
meaning you don't know what'll happen.

English: 
For some reason, 
I seem to enjoy it when things 
seem to come and go
unpredictably.
I see.
You mentioned guitar feedback just now.
You play "noise music",
and for that you create noises
with your guitar
as well as with a turntable like this one.
This is super easy.
You don't need any skill. Like this.
Even just this is interesting enough.
Why is this gold? Never seen it before.
For example...
Whoops.
Now when I adjust the tone control,
the sound changes like this.
Cool, isn't it?
I guess not. I think it's cool.

English: 
I love it. And you can change
the cartridges, too.
This isn't worth applauding.
I can't do it today, but
turntable feedback is awesome, too.
I wonder if the engineer will get mad
if I create feedback?
See?
Isn't it great?
Like that.
This isn't worth applauding.
This is awesome.
The subwoofer is fabulous.
There is a Genelec subwoofer back here,
and it's like body-sonic audio. Awesome.
How many of these did they have to sell
to buy this subwoofer?
Awesome.
But...
You talked about enjoying
the uncontrollable and noise,

English: 
but you seemed to be controlling
the turntable impeccably.
That wasn't very serious,
but I do control it in my own way
when I perform.
You know from experience what will
happen if you scratch certain places,
or touch the cartridge or the needle?
Not all of it, but I know about 80%,
and the rest depends on
the sound system and
how the venue itself sounds.
And I can tell those things as well,
but I think I better not.
You prefer not being in control.
I like not being in control.
Unfortunately, people have memories.
But I'm sure I'll become forgetful
as I grow older,
and then I'll enjoy making music more.
Forgetting experience and starting anew?
Right. I'm hoping it'll be like that.
In any case, even when I'm playing solo,

English: 
I prefer the uncontrollable like this.
I try to create an uncontrollable factor
when I play solo.
I really don't like doing 
what's already been set up.
You don't like being asked to do
what's been set?
When things are set, I stay within bounds
but do something that'll turn people off,
something different.
I see. You use turntables to perform,
and you also do sound installations.
Yes.
Could you tell us about that?
Sure, let's see if I can find one
on YouTube.
Let's see...
This is an installation called
"Without Records."

English: 
Isn't it fun?
Over a hundred of these were switched
on and off by computer.
This is the sound of feedback.

English: 
So I think there were maybe
about 120 of them then?
120 turntables.
120 of them being turned
on and off randomly.
And true to the title "Without Records,"
there are no records
on any of the turntables?
None. And from each turntable...
I didn't set this up myself.
Dozens of people worked on it.
Planned it out.
Whoops, my guitar solo came on.
Let's stop it for now.
I'll stop it. Let's see...
I asked the participants of a workshop
to create a mechanism of producing sound
from empty turntables.
So the participants set it up?
Yes. They spent about three days.

English: 
People ranging from schoolchildren
to elderly men cooperated.
Then we set them up in the room and
a computer switched them on and off.
In various ways, like turning on
just one, or all together,
or on and off from there to here
like the wind blowing.
Set in motion
according to various settings.
You used Max/MSP,
the Cycling '74 software for this.
Yes, that's right.
From what we just saw,
it appears as though
the turntables are being operated
at random,
but they're actually being controlled
to some extent with Max.
That's correct.
A single one might play like a soloist,
and various other settings. But
the frequency was random, so even I
didn't know what would come next.
Not everything was set from start to finish.
No.
Some randomness left.

English: 
It was programmed to never repeat
the same pattern,
and the turntables were all old,
from the '50s, '60s and '70s,
so they often broke or changed
from the initial settings.
It was impossible to maintain
the same sound.
We kept them going for five months.
Was this in Yamaguchi?
At YCAM in Yamaguchi. All 120
were playing at first, but in the end
only about 80 were left, and their
breaking down was also part of the work.
To explain a bit about YCAM,
in Yamaguchi Prefecture in Japan there's
the Yamaguchi Center for Arts and Media...
A museum, could it be called?
Yes, I think so.
With a focus on media arts. Many creators
such as Carsten Nicolai,
to give a familiar example,

English: 
and Ryoji Ikeda, who'll be
at the reception later on today,
have worked in residence
on various works of art at YCAM.
"Without Records" was such a project.
Yes, that's right.
It's a project I did there in 2008.
It's located far from Tokyo,
in western Japan.
In Yamaguchi City.
Nowadays people from overseas
skip Tokyo and go there.
What's amazing about YCAM is that
it's not just a venue. They've got great
engineers and technicians there.
So you can team up with them
to bring your ideas to fruition.
That's the best thing about it.
In media art, which I'm sure today's
audience is interested in,
while it's possible to just program
something alone,
it often involves labor-intensive
methods to bring it together

English: 
with the help of many people
to make things and
do the programming. It's necessary.
It's definitely necessary. So the title
of the overall exhibit for that
was "Ensembles," the pluralized form
of ensemble. Meaning,
not only musicians but also technicians,
artists, and many others create the work
like performers playing in an orchestra.
From what you've told us, you really
seem to have a strong desire, a wish,
to work with various people including
even the ones you can't control
and create something
that even you find surprising
while enjoying the communication.
I work alone, too, of course,
but I quickly get bored of working alone
so I enjoy working with others.
Is there a knack in working with others?

English: 
A knack?
No, because the experience
differs from person to person.
I don't think there's a single ideal way
to work with others, but perhaps
the key is to not demand
a quick solution.
You mean don't write someone off quickly
after meeting them and
tuning up together, for example?
Oh, that happens sometimes.
Some people I'd rather not work with.
But what I mean by not demanding
a quick solution is that
it's more interesting if the result
of the collaboration between that person
and me isn't obvious.
And also, I enjoy the process
of the collaboration
so if I push what I want to do too hard
onto the other person,
it would no longer be an ensemble.
So the back and forth between
that person and me... How to put it?

English: 
Not aiming for a set goal
from the start is the key.
To discover the goal
through the process.
I see.
So you held an exhibit
entitled "Ensembles"
at the Yamaguchi Center for Arts
and Media, YCAM.
Like everyone here today, many people
from Tokyo couldn't go see it then.
Hold on one sec.
This might be hard to get,
but there are four screens there.
Positioned to form a box in the center.
The silhouettes of improvising musicians
are shown randomly there.
I named it "Quartets" because the four
sides usually shows four musicians.
But it's not possible to see
all four sides simultaneously.

English: 
Because it's being shown
on the sides of a white cube.
That's me on guitar. That's Jim O'Rourke.
And the images of minute,
microscopic things moving in reaction
to the sounds is shown
on the opposite wall. So there are
eight screens in total,
all playing randomly.
That's a Japanese instrument.
It's a "sho." A traditional Japanese
instrument called a sho.
This is Kahimi Karie, the vocalist.
This is Jim O'Rourke on synthesizer.
This is Sachiko M generating
electronic noises and sine waves.
I'm playing the guitar there.
Martin Brandlmayr of Radian is on drums.
Axel Dörner on trumpet. He's from Berlin.
On percussion is Doravideo.

English: 
The silhouettes of the viewers
are shown as well.
This goes on and on endlessly,
and while it's playing, even we
don't know what the combination will be.
These are things like small balls placed
on the speakers or oil covering them,
moving with the vibration and
reacting to the sounds.
I think these are extremely fine threads
placed on the speakers.
Close-up shots of such things are
magnified on the screen.
So you can actually see
the physical movement of sound
along with the silhouettes
of the musicians like this.

English: 
This will be shown
from November 22 in Tokyo,
so although you probably
have to fly home,
if you can extend your stay
and see it, that'd be great.
So on the four sides of the cube,
the musicians appear
on the screens randomly?
Randomly.
You don't know who will appear?
There were eight musicians
but you never know who'd appear.
Sometimes two overlapped
on one screen like an error,
and sometimes there was nobody.
It was programmed that way.
Did each of the eight musicians originally
play according to some kind of guide?
No. The musicians recorded a few takes
of solo playing in a proper studio
while having their silhouettes taken.
They didn't hear anybody else's music?
Each recorded two to four takes
of solo performances

English: 
ten to 30 minutes in length.
So these can stand on their own
as perfectly fine solos. I just told them
we'd be playing their recordings
with other musicians'
so to leave some space for that
when improvising their music.
That was all I asked.
So four are randomly selected from eight
and the combination changes?
Yes, the combination changes rapidly.
And sometimes it's played solo.
Oh, just one person?
Sometimes, yes.
There are periods when nobody
is playing purely by chance,
and similarly, sometimes the players
overlap so there are than five.
Errors were programmed to occur.
You can only see two sides at a time.
Right. Two at a time is the limit.

English: 
Because it's a cube. But the sound
from all four sides...
You hear the sound but you can only
imagine what's going on over there.
But what's happening on the other side
is displayed as the things
moving on the speakers.
The close-ups.
You can see the materials instead.
I see.
I saw this installation at the time. I
thought it was impressive and beautiful.
Wasn't it? I made something
beautiful for a change.
Unlike the violent noises
that we heard earlier,
it was very delicate and lovely.
I'd wanted to see it again.
It's been five years since the last time.
I see.
I made a point of explaining
that you have a "beautiful" side.
We've introduced a couple
of your sound installations
and such event-like projects so far.

English: 
Now I'd like to focus a bit more
on your music.
The kind of music we've heard so far
could probably be called experimental,
and while you do such work, you've also
written soundtracks for TV and film.
This isn't to make more money
on the side, is it?
No, but I get that a lot.
I'm sure you do.
Because I had a hit last year.
There's a morning slot for series of TV
dramas broadcast for 50 years
on NHK, the public
broadcasting network in Japan.
I wrote the soundtrack for one of them
that aired for 6 months.
It became a huge hit,
so I get that a lot now.
I've known you for a long time and know
that you've always written soundtracks.
Yes, I have.

English: 
I don't think that abstract music
is the only kind of music.
I love jazz like anyone else.
There was a time I learned samba
from a Brazilian.
I've played various kinds of music
so I like those too. Love them.
So when you're asked to write
a soundtrack, you don't
change your frame of mind, so to speak...
To switch over from your usual
experimental music?
Not really. What takes priority
when I work on soundtracks
is finding the music
that best matches the drama
from the stock I have within.
It's not about expressing my own music.
So if noise matches the drama
then I'll use it but if it doesn't...
For example, that hit of mine last year
was a comedy starring a teenager.
Not noise material.

English: 
No. So I focused on the teenager
for the first half.
Let's listen to it, then.
The drama is called "Ama-chan."
Oh, here it is. This piece.
It's my big band.

English: 
It's like that.
So different from that violent noise.
Completely different.
Shockingly so.
I'm shocked, actually.
Because it's so different.
When did you develop the skill
to write music like this?
This kind of... I hate to say
proper music, but...
I've never properly studied music.
I got started playing music in a band
in high school for the school festival.
So I could play rock and pop songs
on the guitar then,

English: 
though I wasn't very good at it.
I developed the formal skill
to write such music after I turned 30.
After I began getting work
writing music for soundtracks,
I learned how to arrange music
because I had to.
You'd have to write scores
for this kind of music.
Yes. Normally it'd be necessary
to write scores for this,
write out every note for all the parts.
But in my case, when I selected
my members, I chose musicians
who didn't need scores. Though everyone
you saw just now are classically trained
and can't improvise.
But they were all interested
in my kind of music so I chose them
and had them do something they'd never
done before, play without scores.
I see. You didn't hand out music?
Oh, I did. I handed them out,
just simple ones

English: 
with only the melody, chords,
and counter lines, and told them
we'd discuss and build up the rest
like a rock band.
To do the rest themselves? So you chose
musicians who could do that.
Yes, exactly. If I'd chosen
only professional studio musicians
it wouldn't have sounded like this.
For example, that triplet rhythm
in the hook of that piece
wouldn't have turned out like that
from just the information
on a sheet music. So we discussed
everything on the spot,
like the nuance of the rhythm.
Or about how to play,
exactly together or shift it a bit?
We discussed such things as we went along.
I'm sure it's a completely different method
of working from ordinary professional
composers of TV and film soundtracks.
It's great that there are musicians
willing to work like that.

English: 
Yes. So about 70%
of those musicians I chose
were classical ones who regularly
use scores
and the rest were rock and
jazz musicians.
So I bring such people together
and watch what happens.
I want to see the unpredicted result
of such combinations when I compose.
Is it actually possible, though,
to obtain that kind of skill past 30?
I imagine that for many people,
including those in the audience today,
who are used to programming,
for example, EDM-like sounds,
it would be very difficult to learn
to write scores for big bands like this.
Maybe. But when I was in my 20s
and learning to play the guitar,
I became discouraged from trying.
The reason was because,
for example, I wanted to play like
Jim Hall the jazz guitarist but couldn't

English: 
and that distance between my skill
and my goal was too far.
So there was a period when
I'd quit playing for about 7, 8 years.
But you don't have to aspire
to be like somebody.
For example, trying to write a big band
score like Duke Ellington's is too hard.
That's pretty daunting.
Right? But if you don't set that
as your goal,
if you focus on trying to write
something good in your own way...
It can be daunting if you set a certain
goal, but it's manageable if you don't.
So you try to enjoy the process,
and like you mentioned,
you have confidence or a conviction in
your choice of music for that image?
But it's difficult each time,
and I've got to say
I don't have confidence.

English: 
I discuss things with the director
as I go along.
Every time. I've written about
80 soundtracks for TV and film
during these 25 years.
But I still worry about things
and the right answer never comes easy.
So the images don't necessarily
trigger ideas.
Sometimes I lie and say that they do,
but no, it's never that easy.
But when I do come up with something,
it's often instantaneous.
Do you enjoy collaborating with people
who specialize in moving images?
Yes, it's fun. Because the people
who specialize in images
don't use the same vocabulary
that we musicians use.
They communicate a much vaguer nuance,
so the process of translating that
into a musical vocabulary
is really interesting to me.

English: 
Could you give some examples?
Let's say we have an image
of a high school student,
and of a blue sky.
When I'm requested to compose music
like that blue sky,
I don't understand what that means.
People interpret things differently,
and sound is colorless to begin with.
But I translate that request
in my own way.
Why was the sky referenced?
Because the teenager's emotion
is reflected in the distance
between her and the sky.
So musically, placing this sound here
might express that.
That's my thought process
when I'm working.
Have you ever come across a scene
where you thought noise would work?
I have, actually. On that NHK
morning drama series,
scenes of the 3.11 disaster
were depicted.

English: 
For those I used noise...
my usual kind of music,
and I think it worked really well.
To be precise, I didn't set music
to the disaster itself,
but to the various events
that occurred afterwards.
So at one point in 2013,
my kind of experimental music
was heard every morning
in Japanese living rooms.
That was surreal.
But everyone was focusing
on the drama and not the music,
so I never got any complaints.
Do you consider that a good thing?
That people don't focus on the music?
I believe that a soundtrack has failed
if people notice it on their first watch
because it's there to enhance the drama.
So yes, it's a good thing.
I see.
Well, you've gotten a glimpse
of Mr. Otomo's
wide-ranging music activities.

English: 
The time is now almost 6 o'clock,
so we'll move on to the Q&A. 
Mr. Otomo will answer
any questions you may have.
He's involved in noise music.
He creates sound installations.
He spoke about the "Chaos Conductor,"
and about composing soundtracks.
He's got many sides, so if any of you
have any questions
about any of them, ask away. 
Anybody?

Japanese: 
こんにちは　ありがとう

Japanese: 
さきほどの お話の中で
サインを使う話が出ましたよね
指揮をする際にメッセージを
ミュージシャンに伝える方法です
それは あなた自身が
発明したものなんですか？
それとも別の人の
アイデアですか？
また そのサインを
採用した理由とは？
我々の演奏でも
同じサインを使いますか？

English: 
Well, about this idea...
I got a hint of this method in the 80's.
I think it was a work in '84 of...
a musician in NY, Lawrence Butch Morris.
I remember he passed away last year or
two yeas ago?
I got a hint from his work 'Conduction.'
He conducted using various signs

English: 
and that are so complex so we need to
rehearse for 3 days.
First, I knew it listening to his record...
and when he came to Japan twice in the 90's
I performed with him as a member of
the 'Conduction.'  
It was my first experience creating music
alone with signs of a conductor.
That was a big influence on me.
But the signs were too complex to be
introduced to amateur musicians right away, 
so I made them simple, like reducing
from hundred to one.
Selecting one percent out of the signs and...
changing them simpler to introduce them
to people without instrument skills.
I've been trying various ways
in these 10 years...
but this experiment is still in the process.

English: 
I'm working on it with amateur musicians
and...
the process is a real trial and error.
About the trial and error,
could you tell us an example
what was difficult or easy?
For the people without instrument skills...
it is difficult to pick up on quickly
the nuances of improvisation.
they're not full of ideas for creation
and their ideas are simple,
it is rare for amateurs flashing
ideas like professionals.
Even though we had less various ideas
I needed to try to enrich their sound
as a professional musician.
I see. Thank you very much.
A microphone, please.

English: 
Well...I have two ways to answer that.
The first one is...
to make the matter simple,
I called my experiment 'noise'...
and called others 'traditional.'
Actually, any music can be noise and
any sound can be music.
That is the way I think, for example,

Japanese: 
ノイズ･ミュージックと
トラディショナルな音楽を
分けて考えていますか？
より重視するのはどちらですか
自宅でもノイズを
聴くのでしょうか
特定のタイプの音楽を
集中して聴くことは？

English: 
Um..., everybody regards it as music,
like the Beatles,
their 'Yesterday' is wonderful music.
Even though it's great,
if you play the song for...
someone who is trying to sleep, 
it will definitely become noise.
Depending on the situation of the listener,
anything can be noise.
We could say the opposite too.
Something not regarded as music
can possibly make you feel better.
In that sense, I don't have clear division
'this is noise and this is music.' 
This is my first answer.
And I have another answer but...
I understand what I'm going to say 
doesn't cover everything.

English: 
Of course, there is a difference between
some music that follows traditions and...
music that doesn't.
For example...
let me show you some example.
This sound, I don't regard this same as
traditional sounds.
This is because, the sounds that are
organized by traditions and history...
and the sounds that come out incidentally
are different, I think.
However, the traditional sounds are
recognized only when the listener knows
what the traditional sounds like.
I mean, not simply the sound itself has
all messages in it,
but the message is always created by 
the relationship...
between listeners and composers,
This is what I believe.

English: 
In that sense, when I create experimental
sounds or 'noise' like this...
I'm always trying to elicit a feeling 
inside of...
person's memory that betrays the fixed
idea of 'this is real music.' 
And there is another thing
we need to recognize,
I've been listening to 'noise music'
since I was young, so...
listening to rough sound makes me
extremely happy.
It means that the sound is already
traditional to me.
I feel in that way, sometime.
Let me show you, the music I listened to...
when I was young, my favourite great
guitarist, Masayuki Takayanagi,
he performed this piece... where is it?
Err... the music that he performed was...
like 'noise music,' what can I say...
I'm gonna show you.

English: 
I guess, here it should be.
Um... where is it...? oh.
Wait a minute. Yes, this is it.
I've found this on YouTube now,
performed by legendary musicians,
Masayuki Takayanagi and Kaoru Abe.
They are the first musicians played
free jazz in Japan, but for me,
it sounds noise music, this performance is
in the '70s. Bit lousy.
Here you go.
Well, since this lasts another 50 minutes,
I stop this here,
but I love their music so much.
I love this so much that I could die for it.
So, I mean... what I can say is...

English: 
It means this sound is not a noise at all.
Traditional..?
Yes, this is a traditional music for me.
So I think, it really depends on
how one takes what traditional means.
Okay?
While listening to your talk, I noticed...
that you always care what situation
the listener is in or...
how the listener feels the music has
great effect on...
the music itself,
do you think in that way?
I think music cannot only be defined
by what the musician plays.
Music always stands in a relationship
between players and listeners.
I think that is music, swinging endlessly.
So even though you play a noise
to make everybody hate it, still...
it is possible to make somebody
love the noise, like me.
It tells us we can never control listeners...

English: 
and we cannot control ourselves
as a listener.
That is music, I guess.
I think that, in these 10 years,
listeners have greatly changed.
What I'm saying is, as you showed us 
the 70's sounds right now...
by searching it on YouTube,
is typically telling us.
We can find and pick up 'old sounds'
as 'new sounds' to listen through the net.
That's right.
Without recognizing it as historical,
all music seem like lining up flatly
in front of listeners.
That would be good in a way, or...
in other way, we can say like this,
'context of music is ignored.'
How can we see this sort of 'flattening'?
Well, it is not only the matter of
YouTube but...

English: 
I felt honestly confused when the internet
started delivering music service.
I felt like something very significant
to me, being lined with trash. 
On the same shelf?
Yes, it is, but...
I listen to various music
through YouTube almost every night...
and this is a very happy and welcoming 
situation, on the other hand...
it is not a mere matter of display but
way of listening.
Most of us these days
use earphones, don't we?
I think these really cause a problem.
Sure, these are good and...
useful for us... but when I was child,
I was listening to music through speakers,
mother scolded me, it's too noisy.
Definitely they did.
In that situation there is someone
between the music and myself. 
I can say it is an impure relationship
with music because it has some noise. 

English: 
There is always a noise, 'a mother.'
We could not listen to music in an
exclusive way, those days.
Nowadays we can listen to it, so we feel
as if we are doing it purely.
In fact, I think it's better listening
with noise.
It is nice to have a mother complaining
'it's noisy.'
Or a girlfriend saying 'Try listening this.
it's better.'
Not remaining in one-on-one relationship
with music and...
allowing a various elements 
between you and music.
I rather prefer that I cannot create
a relationship with music easily.
Now everyone can listen to...
music very directly and exclusively alone.
We can listen to music all over the world
with just one click.
It's great but I still want to snip
everyone's cables
from their back with scissors.
On a train? 
Snip-snap...

English: 
As a creator of music, is there anything
you are conscious about...
this 'flattening era' now we are in?
The biggest change inside of me for
the flattening...
was that I quit making albums.
Why was it?
If you make a CD or LP...
I think especially in making CDs,
everything can be lined and...
displayed flatly in the internet.
Our consideration of the order of tracks...
and the length between the numbers,
like 5 seconds, becomes useless.
That made me think that the album itself
has no meaning.
Did you think about creating albums
that nobody can cut a part?
Exactly, that's why I started to perform 
installation.
Headphones never bring you the experience
of an installation does.
What I showed you through YouTube...

English: 
was not an experience for you and
you need to visit.
You can mix music by stereo like this.
You can put it into earphones but
something you cannot mix by stereo...
that you cannot catch by recording
that I'm interested in trying to perform
installation...
or the event I showed you at the beginning,
you can see it as video picture...
but we cannot reproduce like the acoustic
pressure.
So that made me more intrigued to things
we cannot reproduce or record.
At the same time, I really love YouTube.
Every night I'm excited listening to
like the 40's Duke Ellington's.
So this is good, computer stuff is very great,
I mean...
both are good.
We are under a situation in which
we need to be aware of both.
Thank you. Any other question?
You, over there.

English: 
Therapy...
For therapy, I would rather get a massage.
Not prefer collaboration?
I like to collaborate with a person
massaging me though.
Of course it is not easy all the time.
And sometime it doesn't work well.
I always work with many different people so...
I don't think about it much.
Many things won't go so easy anyway.

Japanese: 
たくさんの人と
コラボレーションされてますが
やはり苦労が多いですか？
それとも違いを受け入れて
楽しめる感じですか？
また 演奏活動を
セラピーと考えることは？

Japanese: 
こんにちは
ノイズ･ミュージックの
世界では
日本人ミュージシャンが
重要な位置を占めていますね
日本という国は
長い歴史の上に成り立っていて
日本人は礼儀正しく
物静かな人たちだと思います
もしかして
ノイズ･ミュージックを
作りたいという欲求は
そういう社会への反発から？
こんな質問で すみません

English: 
So I don't tend to 
care about them that much.
Alright? Thank you.
One more person. Over there, please.
Microphone, Okay?
No problem. I would like to ask you back
but did you find...

Japanese: 
たとえば 私の祖国の
アイルランドは
酔っ払いだらけのイメージです
それと比べると日本人は
物静かで 常に
おじぎをしている印象です
でも真夜中の
渋谷などを歩けば
酔っ払ったクレイジーな
日本人が大勢いますよ

English: 
Japanese are quiet when you came here?
You are really right.
Err... let me think.
I suppose most of Japanese...
are not in positions they can see
themselves objectively. 
I mean, few Japanese can compare and say
what is the difference...
between foreigners and Japanese, I guess.

English: 
This is because, first, a language problem.
and the other is...
...if you see TV programs, most of them
are domestic ones.
We live in very domestic circumstances.
In my idea, few Japanese people compare
themselves to other countries.
That may become our drawback and also
our advantage. 
Talking about noise music and
why this happened is...
Backlash is one possibility and other is...
I assume wrongly conveyed information
was a reason.
I regard myself as being in the first
generation of noise musicians.
All of my generation who play noise
are influenced by rock music.
When we listen to rock...
we had few chances to see real American
or British bands' playing.
We all listened to them through records. 
Sitting in front of speakers and
listened to them.

English: 
We all thought rock is extremely loud.
In my brain, in my head an aspiration and...
a dream for rock was swelling and soaring.
Rock is radical and loud and...
players move violently like a storm on stage.
Those images alone were amplified
in our brain.
We saw on TV, Jimi Hendrix crashes his guitar.
The Who's breaking their guitars,
we believed it was cool!
This part of our memory was swelled.
Then we got an amplifier for 
our guitars and...
went to a club.
A club in Japan is so small compared to
ones in the U.S. or Europe. 
Even though they used 
Fender Twin Reverb or...
Roland Jazz Chorus 120.
So when they played 
turning its volume to the max,
the sound was so loud that
microphone feedback occurred.

English: 
That maybe because I think we...
extremely misunderstood rock or free jazz. 
Then we imagined rock and jazz must
be very very loud.
As a matter of fact, We did 
performances with its volume at the max,
I'm wondering if that was
the true reason for it.
We composed music without
right information...
and in addition, there were
extreme misunderstandings.
I imagine Japanese noise music was...
probably born by that biased information.
So you think it would rather be created
by coincidence but...
backlash against something.
When Japanese noise music was born, English
guitarist Derek Bailey played a role.
He visited Japan for his concerts.
Many noise musicians were influenced
by his concert here...

English: 
...like this band "Hijokaidan" was 
influenced by him and I was too.
When listening to this music,
this sounds nothing close to Hijokaidan.
This is such a wonderful performance
of improvisations.
First number, right?
I remember this number was in 1976...
or 1977?
Err... excuse me, it was in 1978.
Derek Bailey came to Japan
when I was still in high school.
He had concerts 
in dozens of cities in Japan.
None of us could understand him at all.
We honestly couldn't get it
but what we thought was...
Even if we cannot play the guitar,
we can be on stage.

English: 
We misunderstood in that way.
He played this with super high technique,
but we couldn't realize it then.
A year after his visit to Japan,
small clubs in Japan were
full of musicians like me copying him.
Stop it please.
The club owners told us "No Derek Bailey."
There are some music stores
on Denmark Street in London, 
they post a bill saying
'No Stairway to Heaven.'
Like the music stores in London,
once stores in Japan banned copying him.
Among the many musicians copying him...
and remaining misunderstood,
it has evolved so much.
That is one of the features of
Japanese noise music.

Japanese: 
すみません
ありがとうございます
最後の質問ということなので
ご自身の将来の展望について
お話を聞いてみたいです

English: 
Limited information made misunderstandings
and illusions.
The situation was different from now. 
That was.
Less information...
Because of little information...
we didn't have a chance to know
what Derek Bailey was saying. 
For example, a 12-year-boy imagines
"what is a girl?"
that kind of imaginations, we had.
I guess like this.
Thank you for a solid example.
Time is running out,
so this is the last question.
Anybody? Then you, go ahead please.

Japanese: 
目標としていることなどを
教えてください
よろしくお願いします

English: 
Talk about my future.
I'm 55 years old now.
I'm rather thinking about...
my health, I'd like to work
with good physical condition.
Musicians around me,
around our age, often lose their health.
I see someone become ill. 
I don't want to die yet.
Well...
I know, I know.

English: 
At our age when we think about future, 
'death' comes to mind.
In your age, the future is full of hopes,
and many possibilities.
for us, possibilities are diminishing.
though, er...
There maybe nothing but music
that I want to do. 
All I think about is music.
I hope I can play the guitar
till the end of my life.
But in this age, I prepare myself
that someday I cannot play anymore. 
I hope I play.
Another thing I felt
after the Great East Japan Disaster,
I used to hesitate speaking in front
of people or...
...giving a lecture like this.

English: 
But since the quake, I'm more
for doing this if I get an offer.
The reason I changed my mind is...
I would liket to take that 
music dies when people die,
and I still think of it this way.
For example when Charles Mingus died,
we don't need a musician like him...
in the next generation.
He left recordings anyway.
So after my death,
we don't need a musician like me.
Or there is no need to tell what I did but...
I'm telling this
not especially for musicians...
but also telling for non-musicians.
I'd better tell them what I've seen 
in the world...
in my career of 30 years.
The world I've seen is...

English: 
that I have been playing eccentric music
in various places through my tours.
the world I saw during my career is
different from the view of people
who live in one place.
There is a world they still don't know.
As I said, in Japan, I see many people
not noticing the world outside of here.
This is not a problem of Japan alone,
but now, some people make hate speeches
against Korean and Chinese...
who lives in various places in Japan.
While seeing such people's 
violence and acts of discrimination,
I'd better show or tell people 
I'm the one...
who creates and plays music
with "my" philosophy, not "theirs".
I play music that sounds violent
so if thre's something wrong,

English: 
my music could be taken 
as a message for excluding others.
I'd like to raise my voice and tell
that my music is different from them.
I try to speak out.
Okay? Thank you for the time with us.
A few days later, you will perform with us. 
Yes, I'm looking forward to
playing music together with you all.
Thank you very much for today,
Mr. Yoshihide Otomo.
