like them and some others are about
misinformation
Ok so we can start? Yeah.
Okay and
so we had this opportunity to meet you as
a cooperator of the magazine
znetitaly, This is why, first of all
we would like to thank you on behalf of
znetitaly crew etc.etc.
and IOPS associated and we would like to start our interview
asking your impression
of the evolution of the Occupy movement
and about
Znet and IOPS as a tool
to awake some of the 99 dormant percent
I mean is this a tool, this could be a tool
to help them to understand what's going
on
or or maybe we're just the trying to do
something but it's useless
we talk each other
Depend, same, you can ask the same question about the Occupy Movement and Znet and IOPS
to what extent can they reach
out beyond the already committed
sections, so take Occupy
It was pretty start when development
when, if they would ask me, fortunately they didn't, but if they would ask me was a good idea
I would have said "it's crazy" 'cause I didn't see any possibilitie
that it could succeed. But it.. a little spark
spread all over the United States
very quickly... occupy movements
many cities  spread all over the world
Sidney, Australia, and the England, and Europe
and it significantly
changed just a general
discourse in the U.S. and part of the world
 and thanks to Occupy the crucial questions
move to the center of the national Agenda
for much of the population, even for the media
and concepts like 99% and 1% just get common discourse now
mainstream media get some support from the
business
the
they just kind of deflame
evidence are waiting
of course occupy is a tactic
it's not a strategy
you can't occupy for very long especially in the northern United
States
sitting under two feet of snow so
it was a planned tactic go on for
a couple of month tactics, a kind of a half life
they worked for a while
their effectiveness declines and has to move on to something else
like moving into the neighborhoods organizing
and
turning to the concerns into concerns that
people
have there  like in the U.S. foreclosure
unemployment or immigrant problem
and so on reconstitution after
Sandy hurricane, things like that, and to an extent
that's happened be nice and beyond
it's happened, and that's the way movement dwelled
Take a look at the civil rights movement
And it was going on for, in some way, for a century
throught the ninety fifties and the ninety sixty in the U.S. it began
spread a little bit, a boycott
a couple of other things, really took off
with the ***** in ninenty sixty
freedom
Mass movements succeed with a lot of things
if you listen to speeches of Martin Luther King a couple of days ago
they end with his
"I have a dream speech" in
1964 but Martin Luther King didn't stop there
He went on the raise class issue and talked about
racism in the north and its connection with
class organizing poor people movement
So he was assasinated in the middle of this... supporting of
sanitation workers strike
organizing march to Washignton
to support poors people movement
Of course racist class are pretty closely correlated in the U.S.
As soon as he started condeming war in Vietnam
Soon he came moved in those directions
he fell of the radar screen
Northern Liberal were perfectly happy to see him condeming racist scene in
Alabama but don't talk about us
please and what we do. So that part of his life
which was the most important part for him has out of the commemoration
the same with Nelson Mandela
Which was enomously praised for eliminating
Apartheid but a couple of things are missing and they won't be
discussed
one is that as soon as
Mandela was released from prison
and was able to speak the first thing he did was
express a tremendous praise for
Cuba which was an inspiration for
words sometimes quoted, nobody knows was talking about
It was talking about Cuba liberated.. Africa
played an enormous role in defending
Angola from South African aggression himself aggression come beating back
the even a psychological role
black soldiers defeating
famous white invcible southafrican
forced South Africa force, maybe,
apartheid to end. You can't talk about that in the
United States and probably here either.
But that's a major... that's Mandela
that's gonna like... later years
unaccetable, here is where movements make the difference, they have to go on
they have achievements so the end of the Apartheid is a
major achievments... for the black southafrican will change that much
the civil rights movement in the U.S. was an
achievement
many, there is progress, but it hits
barriers that take much different kind of work to overcome
So take Occupy, it did bring
questions of inequality, wall street, criminality and so on
right to the fore... the inequality is growing up
big banks are
richer
powerful so there's plenty to do. 
Ok that's where
Znet and Iops come in, they are supposed to.. what their aim is to be
at least carry this struggle forward
of couse Znet goes foreback
and it's been...had its success, it's international
communications and education system
people communicate, there is a
debate discussion groups like around about parecon issues and other
issues all that's important
but that it has been pretty steady
take a look at the subscriptions in Z magazine... is substantial
for a small magazine but it wont grow up.. (yeat, that's what happened)
And IOPS is the same
it's a good idea,
interesting possibilities but hasn't lit real spark yet
Ok, that's what
activist are for... to create and carry those things
Making a reference to the
change in communication the way of 
communicating, the use of words
to communicate... what do you think of the
the real meaning in future of the word
"imperialism". In the past it was something from
the army, from
state trying to overdue other states.
The imperialism which we can see to to be reached
with media, with
information
What do you think would be really the intent?
Wa have plenty of
options but the questions who's the owner
like the Internet is maneuver whose
views on
who's gonna use it and how. So if turnes out to be
dominated by "call"?
you know... Fox News will be harmfull
So the opportunities
there because firms footage there with
print meed
Znet twenty years ago
Zmagazine was print maded
they were used
they had an effect but hasn't had the effect of bringing about
major sociale changes. In fact the past 30 years has been
period of regression but it's not the first time, it's
what social struggles are about and take civil rights again litteraly goes back hundred of years
Women's right, that was an issue
of some groups in the early ninteen century
and wasn't brilliant in '60
and take United States to 1975, litteraly,
women were not considered
consume peers they could than fitter
federal jury for human beings it's only
about 30 years ago
things are done, and you got to keep working
Can I make you a personal question if you allow me
you greatly considered person very brave
and many of us envy such quality of your personality
do you have any tips on how to build up
the courage for people who do not have it
I don't think I have any particular qualities that every
person doesn't have if they want to use
even if there's any tips it's been kept deep dark
secret for a thousands of years.
You mean is not something spontaneus but
it's something...
I think
it's something everybody has.
I mean, sometimes people use, sometimes they don't
I mean if
you pass by an accident in the street, somebody is 
laying on the ground bleeding
and there are people who go over to help and there are other
people
who drive pass
These are personal choices
But there are no special tricks or magic
or personality carachter. It's just the way you decide
to act like a human being.
Here in Italy we see that the communication system
very often
make distorted or questionable use
of the real meaning of the words. If we are to discover
the reality
only on the basis of what all mainstream show
the public would
just believe and trust
what they propose
without putting any questions and considering there 
is no alternative
there is no other way
to the things than what they are doing.
There is no other way
to approach politics or ecology or so on.
Do you think that there are many people who
are aware
to be sadly to an instrument of a media bombing
which exploit the psichological and scientific
knowledge of the human brain
not only for commercial reason but
particulary
for
political purpose. Do they understand
or not? 
The general population? Yeah
I can't talk about Italy, because I
haven't studied it
In United States (where I've studied)
it turns out that people, first of all,
they are kept in ignorance but on the other hand
look at their attitudes. Their attitude 
are not the attitude
presented by establishment
propaganda system
media
