[Andrew Chang] Well summer is in full swing
and with that many of us can't help but think about travel.
Except, of course, in a pandemic it's a bit complicated.
We're all eager to escape our bubbles but
there are major risks involved
and perhaps the biggest travel conundrum of all
the United States.
All the way back in March the Canada-U.S. border closed to non-essential travel
and every 30 days for the past four months
the two countries have agreed to keep that border closed.
Poll after poll has suggested Canadians are happy with that decision
but the border won't stay closed forever
and so the question we are asking tonight.
What happens when it reopens?
Joining me now to help answer that, two infectious diseases specialists.
Dr. Isaac Bogoch who we saw earlier in the program
and Dr. Raywat Deonandan.
Hello to the two of you.
So Dr. Deonandan maybe I'll just start with you so that we're all on the same page.
I mean it's easy to skim through media coverage in the United States
and think oh my gosh things are really out of control but give me that sober assessment
of how Canada and the U.S. compare.
Well we like to think of our two countries as being very similar.
We have similar demographics and their language is similar.
Entertainment tastes.
But pandemics have a way of revealing the truth of a society.
The frailties and the strengths.
What this pandemic has revealed of the United States is a fractured society.
Now it's difficult to to describe one nation in aggregate when it's so diverse.
50 different states with 50 different experiences
but we're seeing ideological splits, we're seeing tribalism.
We're seeing distrust of authority.
We're seeing the the rampant rolling through society of pseudoscience.
In Canada on the other hand for the most part we've seen a unified vision
We've seen most Canadians lining up behind our leaders.
We've seen people willing to sacrifice for the betterment of a society.
So this pandemic has really for me delineated a cultural difference between the two countries
around how we're willing to behave to keep each other safe.
In the United States, that's gone truly.
And I take your point that that we're talking about two very diverse countries here
so it's hard to sort of brand either one in a sort of a singular way
but Dr. Bogoch, when you look at the numbers.
I mean is the pandemic in the United States sort of clearly and measurably worse than in Canada?
Oh absolutely and basically by all outcomes.
Even if we just look at the sheer number of cases in the United States
they have somewhere between 70,000 to 75,000 new cases per day.
We have individual states like Florida with anywhere from about 10,000 to 15,000 new cases per day.
And when we think about Canada as a country
in general we're getting between 200 to 400 new cases today from coast to coast.
So Canada has done a much, much, much better job getting their epidemic under control
compared to the United States.
Ours is rather controlled right now.
Of course we're seeing a little outbreak here and there
but in the United States it's still a raging forest fire.
So then Dr. Bogoch, I mean what's at stake here?
I mean if the U.S.-Canada border were to reopen
I don't know say it's a tomorrow
what would the health consequences be of that?
Oh it would be a disaster.
I mean we would certainly risk importing infections across this border
and we have a huge land border.
And of course in pre-COVID-19 times
there was a tremendous amount of travel across that border
both with Canadians traveling to the United States
and Americans coming to Canada for business, for pleasure
and it would just pose a scenario where we would reimport a lot of it
as we saw before the border was closed
and it would essentially undo all the hard work that we've done to get our epidemic under control.
Dr. Deonandan, do you see it as being that dire?
Because I mean at the moment there is travel happening to and fro.
Certainly not tourist travel but we see
essential travel...
...truckers, for example, driving back and forth.
I mean what's at stake in your mind
and I suppose what would you want to see before that border reopens?
I think that our focus should be 100% on finding a safe way to open schools in the fall.
Anything that distracts us from that goal is ultimately a disservice to keeping our economy open.
The best way to keep schools open safely in the fall is to have our caseload low
in the community and in the single digits if we can.
Opening up the border in no way serves that goal.
In fact in many ways that introduces new seeding events.
Every American traveller that comes across that border is possibly the source of a new outbreak
and possibly as Dr. Bogoch was saying, a
small forest fire.
I don't see this helping our long-term cause in any way shape or form.
There's nothing good that can come of it except for the travel of essential goods
as you mentioned via truck drivers and so forth.
Recreational travel might be economically interesting for a few.
But the the risk is far too great in my mind.
So if the potential risks then Dr. Bogoch
as you put it is is the undoing of the progress that Canada has made so far
in controlling the pandemic.
I mean what would you want to see in terms of I don't know either testing numbers
or hospitalization numbers or death numbers in the United States
or even from a policy perspective.
What is it that you would want to see before that border reopens?
Yes certainly it would be great to see some central leadership
and with good central leadership both at the federal level and at the state level
we hopefully watch them get their epidemics under control
and there'd be a constellation of metrics.
Reduction in the number of new cases per day.
A sustained reduction in the number of new cases per day
and public health policy that really facilitates that a low number of cases
can be sustained.
But until that happens I think yeah for fans of Canadian football
we're just gonna have to keep punting this decision month by month by month
down the field and delaying the border from reopening
because quite frankly, even if they did everything perfectly today
it would still take months for them to get their epidemic under control there.
We'll have to see how it plays out.
Doctors, thank you so much for this. I
appreciate it.
