JUDY WOODRUFF: And now we turn to the analysis
of Shields and Brooks. That's syndicated columnist
Mark Shields and New York Times columnist
David Brooks.
So good to see both of you. Thank you for
being here this Friday.
So, let's start with some interesting poll
numbers. They show not only President Trump
running somewhere between eight, 12, even
14 points behind Joe Biden, but the president's
disapproval ratings are at record highs.
This is from the new Marist poll the "NewsHour"
does with NPR and Marist, 58 percent disapproval
for President Trump, the highest it has ever
been. And then you see on this second graph
his ratings, disapproval ratings higher than
President Obama at his -- at this stage of
his presidency or President Bush 43 at this
point in their first term in office.
David, how significant is this?
DAVID BROOKS: Oh, pretty significant.
The numbers are devastating for the president.
But, you know, big things have happened. We're
looking at possible really serious and long
economic recession or depression. We're losing
the battle against COVID. We're having a racial
reckoning.
And a lot of white Americans are learning
what daily life is like for African-Americans.
These are just gigantic things that are happening
in the country. And on each one of them, Donald
Trump is considered an inadequate leader by
a lot of people. So he's losing college-educated
women. He's losing some high school-educated
white men, just across the board.
In our New York Times poll this week, Biden
was winning by 14 percentage points. These
are -- there's no way, other than to say that
some seismic shift is happening in the electorate
right now, and a lot of people want to fire
Donald Trump.
JUDY WOODRUFF: Mark, what do you see in these
numbers, and how significant do you think
they are?
MARK SHIELDS: Well, I think they're encouraging
for the Democrats.
But, at the same time, Judy, for those who
want to put the champagne on ice, I would
remind them of the wisdom of Ann Richards,
the late governor of Texas, who said, July
results do not make a November election.
And, you know, this is not the first time
that Democrats have had a large lead in the
summer, and not managed to win in November.
But I think for Donald -- I think David's
absolutely right about Donald Trump. He -- right
now, this election is a referendum on him.
And he is failing that test on virtually every
major ground.
There's only two times it's good to be a United
States president, one, when things are going
so swimmingly, prosperity, and there's peace
in the world, and you get to that -- bask
in that warmth of the era of good feeling.
The second time is, strangely enough, when
there's a catastrophe not of your making,
an earthquake or a pandemic, as we're having
now. And that's when a president can console
and lead and comfort a nation and be really
a figure who brings everybody together. Donald
Trump has failed that, and failed it miserably,
and I don't see a recovery.
JUDY WOODRUFF: And, David, the president,
though, is having his first rallies. He was
out in Tulsa last weekend. He was in Arizona
a few days ago getting thousands of people
to show up, in Tulsa, what is it, 6,000.
He's dismissing, if you will, the COVID virus,
though. I mean, he's saying that, if more
testing -- if there were more testing done,
there wouldn't be a virus. He is trying play
to his base.
DAVID BROOKS: To some part of his base.
There's some of the base that likes him. They
like the showmanship of the rallies. They
like the jokes. They like him spending 20
minutes talking about walking down a ramp,
which he did in Tulsa.
But there's a part of his base -- and these
are people who have supported him in the past
-- who hate all that stuff. They vote for
him for judges or for some other issue, or
because they think he's decent on the economy.
But now he's not decent on the economy.
And they really don't like the idea of voting
for a president who seems racist. And so they
might be with him on other issues, but -- so
you're seeing him -- people flake away from
him for really serious issues, for really
serious reasons, not for some temporary tweet.
And so I agree with Mark. This is not the
time to celebrate. But we have had such a
stable set of polls over the last three years,
where Trump has just hung basically solid
vis-a-vis other people. And now things look
different. And they look different because
big things are happening.
JUDY WOODRUFF: Mark, I mean, could his arguments
about the virus appeal to enough people to
somehow persuade them that he's got the right
argument going here?
MARK SHIELDS: I doubt it, Judy.
He has not been a national leader on this
issue. I mean, in fact, he's been a sniper
on the sidelines too much, criticizing governors
in Michigan and Minnesota and Virginia for
taking measures to -- in their states to lead
to a lockdown, in hopes of curtailing it.
Somehow, there seems to have emerged a choice
between public health and a strong economy.
And Donald Trump says, well, I'm for a strong
economy. Open up that economy.
But the reality is, we will not have a strong
economy without restored public health. I
mean, that's the route and the road to it.
And I just think that he's going down a dead
end. And it shows terrible indifference to
the people who are his most loyal supporters.
Those 3,000 kids in Arizona without masks,
without any social distancing, that's a -- that's
a terrible prospect of illness forthcoming.
JUDY WOODRUFF: And that's the image that the
administration's projecting, David.
The vice president today defending those rallies,
saying there's a First Amendment right to
assembly, people have a right to go out and
support the candidate of their choice.
DAVID BROOKS: Well, I sort of have some sympathy
for that.
If we're going to have the George Floyd protests,
which I think we should have had, you can't
say to one group of people, you can protest,
but, to another, you can't, obviously, once
that precedent was set.
JUDY WOODRUFF: Right.
DAVID BROOKS: Though, you know, the more I
think about this whole administration, there
was a crucial moment, when the president basically
chose Jared Kushner over Steve Bannon.
And what's interesting about the Bannon populist
wing is, they were very quick on this COVID
situation. They were saying, this is a major
crisis way back in February. They were: Let's
take this seriously. Let's be the side of
order. Let's be the side of the health hawks,
if you want to put them that way.
And Trump went the other way early in his
administration, away from the populists, and
toward more Wall Street people. And he said:
No, it's nothing, because I don't want to
hurt the market.
And that shift in the administration, looking
back on it, was one of the pivotal shifts
in the administration. And I hate to be a
praiser of Steve Bannon, but I think, frankly,
the president would be a -- in better shape,
both substantively and politically, if he
had listened to people on that wing.
JUDY WOODRUFF: Interesting. We have forgotten
about that.
And, Mark, on top -- to top it all off, it's
what we talked about early in the program,
the administration going to the Supreme Court
to try to yet again do away with the Affordable
Care Act.
Is this something that's likely to win him
friends and admirers at this stage of his
reelection effort?
MARK SHIELDS: No, Judy.
John Boehner, the former Republican speaker
of the House, was very candid on this subject,
said, 25 years as a Republican in the House,
not once, never once did Republicans ever
agree on a health care plan. And he was absolutely
right.
There's never been a Republican health care
plan. They're trying to repeal, replace the
-- the Affordable Care Act, but at a time
when 20 million people are turning to it,
having lost their jobs, and at a time when
it is more popular than it ever was when Barack
Obama was president, and with every health
care group of any significance and hospitals
and doctors and -- except the American Nurses
Association -- opposing the administration
this.
What happens if they win and there is no Affordable
Care Act, and there is no preexisting condition
coverage? And I just -- it's an absolute political
folly.
JUDY WOODRUFF: I want to ask you about that,
David. And then -- and then I have got two
or three other things I want to ask.
So, go ahead, if you want to comment -- comment
for us on the Affordable Care Act and the
administration trying to -- yet again to get
rid of it.
DAVID BROOKS: Well, just quickly, if you're
a Republican Senate candidate in Arizona or
Georgia or wherever these close races are,
suddenly, you have got to defend the idea
of taking away this insurance for preexisting
conditions, at a moment when having had COVID-19
could become a preexisting condition.
It's political poison for any Republican Senate
candidate in a close race.
JUDY WOODRUFF: David, I'm going to stay with
you.
Police reform. After all these rallies around
the country, it's clear there's a lot of sentiment
for looking at ways to improve policing in
this country, the House and the Senate completely
-- Republicans and Democrats completely at
odds over this. What's going on?
DAVID BROOKS: On this one, I blame the Democrats,
frankly.
I think Tom (sic) Scott, the Republican from
South Carolina, who was the Republican sponsor,
put together a good-faith bill. It had not
everything the Democrats wanted, obviously,
but it had some stuff. It had the -- making
lynching a federal hate crime. It had -- against
choke holds, more transparency for police
misconduct.
And then Scott said, we're going to let you
vote on amendments. And so maybe -- and he
said that maybe I'd support some of these
amendments.
And so he had a pretty open process. I'm a
big believer, if you can take half a cake,
take half a cake. And then, if Democrats win
November, they can get the whole cake. I think
they should have compromised on this and accepted
half a cake. It would have been a step forward
to a better police force.
JUDY WOODRUFF: Mark, should the Democrats
have tried to sit down with Tim Scott or any
of the other Republicans?
MARK SHIELDS: Well, I think Tim Scott -- I
think Tim Scott, who is an authentic figure
on this and absolutely a man of reality, talked
about his own personal experience of being
stopped seven times by Capitol Hill Police,
he, a United States senator, and being asked
for identification and papers.
And so he showed a sensitivity to it. But
I think there was a skepticism about how much
he could deliver.
But I did honestly think there was a chance.
I thought that -- for legislative compromise
on this. I'm less confident of that today
than I was last week. It's an election year.
The Senate is about to take two weeks off.
The closer we get to election, the less chance
there is.
And I'm sad about it.
JUDY WOODRUFF: And just very quickly to both
of you, what year will the District of Columbia
become a state?
David?
(LAUGHTER)
DAVID BROOKS: I will live here and die here
and never see it.
(LAUGHTER)
DAVID BROOKS: So I'm pessimistic about it.
JUDY WOODRUFF: And Mark?
MARK SHIELDS: I'm more -- I'm more optimistic,
Judy.
I mean, District residents pay more in taxes
than 22 states, the residents of 22 states
combined. They -- at the same time, they die
at a rate higher than Americans in 14 other
states in wars.
At some point, they have got to be accorded
citizenship. And I'm hoping that it'll be
in the next administration.
JUDY WOODRUFF: Citizenship, yes, but no voting
representation.
Mark Shields, David Brooks, we will leave
it there. Thank you both.
