 
 WINFREY:  ...for anybody to imagine who's sitting wherever
 they are in their homes that you're sitting in the palace
 and you felt a sense of hatred for yourself.
  That doesn't compute in our princess,
 Cinderella, duchess mind.
 WINFREY:  You understand?
 Ms. FERGUSON: Right.
 FERGUSON:  OK.  So you sh…
 WINFREY:  That's the fairytale.
 Ms. FERGUSON:  That is the fairytale.
 WINFREY:  Uh-huh. 
 FERGUSON:  But then comes the rea--realism that you
 actually ma--you didn't marry to get the fairytale;
 you married your man. 
 You fell in love and you married the man.
  And then you've got to come to terms with the fairytale.
 Now it's not a fairytale;
 it's real life in there--well, so to speak.
 WINFREY:  It's real life in there.
 Ms. FERGUSON:  They think it's real life in there.
 FERGUSON:  You know...
 WINFREY:  So when you moved into the palace,
 were you surprised?
  I mean, the way you described your li--I'm ju--as you
 describe it in the book, I'm thinking it's a little,
 dark room down the hall at Buckingham Palace.
 FERGUSON:  Yes.  It's on the second floor.
 WINFREY:  Where you lived.
 Ms. FERGUSON:  Where I lived.
  And at Buckingham Palace, from--from--from when you look
 at it from the outside, for any tourist that's looking
 at Buckingham Palace, all the windows have to be--only
 open only a certain amount so they are all in line.
 WINFREY:  Mm-hmm.
 Ms. FERGUSON:  And so, of course, I come in and fling
 open all the windows knowing it was wrong, you know.
 WINFREY:  Mm-hmm.
 Ms. FERGUSON:  And--there--no, that wasn't my bedroom, no.
 WINFREY:  Well, what is this?
  OK, because that's how we picture Buckingham Palace…
 WINFREY:  ...but that's not what you described.
 Ms. FERGUSON:  Those are the state rooms.
 FERGUSON:  Yeah. Tho—tho--tho...
 WINFREY:  OK. Parties.
 Ms. FERGUSON:  Yeah.  Right.  That's where all the…
 FERGUSON:  Yeah.  The--the--like, the President
 and Mrs. Clinton would go to th--these rooms
 when they go to visit.
 Ms. FERGUSON:  No, this wa--this wasn't where we put our
 feet up and watched TV.
 WINFREY:  OK. 
 FERGUSON:  No.  And--and that's another state room.
  That--well, that's the Throne Room,
 as you can see, at the back.
 WINFREY:  Mm-hmm. 
 FERGUSON: Yeah.
 FERGUSON:  The Throne Room, yeah.
 WINFREY:  The Throne Room.
 WINFREY:  Now was--the--the--the quarters where you lived,
 were they--you know, did you have the same ki…
 Ms. FERGUSON:  They were like--sorry. Sorry.
 WINFREY:  Were they the same kind of opulence?
  Because I'm looking at the silk on the walls,
 the rugs alone, the curtains.
 Ms. FERGUSON:  No, no.
 WINFREY: No?
 Ms. FERGUSON:  No.  Thi--this is all open for public.
  And the s--the state rooms.
 WINFREY:  Uh-huh.
 Ms. FERGUSON:  And my rooms are about a mile and a half
 from those on the other side of the quadrangle.
 FERGUSON: Yes. Yes.
 And the kitchen was about a mile and a half from my rooms, so…
 WINFREY:  Literally.  Yes.
 WINFREY:  Uh-huh.
 WINFREY:  So you have your rooms, and then to get--I
 remember--you--you are like me.
  I'd be looking for the refrigerator.
 Ms. FERGUSON:  Yeah. Comforting.
 WINFREY:  You walk in and you're in the palace
 and you're really happy to--happy to be there and you're
 really glad the queen's there and everything, and go,
 `But where's the refrigerator?'  Yeah.
 Ms. FERGUSON:  Yeah. Yeah.
  WINFREY:  And it was where?
 FERGUSON:  And it was--well, what you had to do was,
 my--our bedrooms, where--we had one bedroom, two bathrooms,
 a dining room, come study, come nursery, come everything,
 and a--and a dressing room for me.
  That was it-- and a sitting room to watch TV.  That was it.
  And it was all…
 WINFREY:  So--OK.  So they have four rooms, basically.
 Ms. FERGUSON:  Yeah.  And it was a department in the
 environment building, so it's all burgundy and very dark.
  And the light bulbs are only 30 amps,
 so they don't provide any light.
  And--and you can all say, `Well, what…'
 WINFREY:  Is that, like, regulated?
  You could only have 30 amps?
 Ms. FERGUSON:  Yes.  Yeah. Yeah.
 WINFREY:  Really?
 Ms. FERGUSON:  Yeah, because the--the tourist rules
 and regulations--I don't know--all that sort of stuff.
  So--but I, being the pleaser, didn't want to change
 anything, and I've still left--I--our flat the same…
 WINFREY:  So if you got a 75-watt bulb, that would be,
 like, an outrage or something?
 Ms. FERGUSON:  Well, the light would shine through—yeah.
 WINFREY:  OK.
 Ms. FERGUSON:  That would be wrong.
 WINFREY:  Wrong.
 Ms. FERGUSON:  It would be naughty.
 WINFREY:  Naughty.
 Ms. FERGUSON:  And you don't do that.
 WINFREY: Oh.
 WINFREY:  Women suffer all over the world from a lack
 of self-esteem.
 Ms. FERGUSON:  And that's what I've tried to say in that
 is that, `Look, I've been in the most privileged position.
  I've been on that pedestal.
  I've been--you can't get--you can't get more of a dream.’
 WINFREY:  You had a tiara.
 Ms. FERGUSON:  I know.
 WINFREY:  That's--say no more.  You had a tiara.
 Ms. FERGUSON:  I know.  I know. I…
 WINFREY:  You had the diamond tiara.
 Ms. FERGUSON:  I know.  I know.
 WINFREY:  Do they let you keep the tiara?
 Ms. FERGUSON: Yes.
 WINFREY:  Really?  They let you keep the tiara.
 Well, the duchess says that things were different
 for Princess Diana.
  Why do you think things were different for her?
 Ms. FERGUSON:  I think that she was just very good
 at what she did.  She was the perfect princess.
  She is the perfect princess.
  I think that she--that she just glides, really,
 and she's very, very tall and very beautiful.
  And she's been through a huge amount of discovery
 of her own self and a huge amount of problems
 with her own life.
 WINFREY:  Mm-hmm.
 Ms. FERGUSON:  But she just--she just--I--well,
 I always think she just seems to get it right, you know?
 WINFREY:  But she went through her struggles, and the…
 WINFREY:  Yeah.
 Ms. FERGUSON:  Big time.
 FERGUSON:  Big time.
 WINFREY:  And the tabloids, who are vicious--they're bad here,
 but they are vicious over there.
 Ms. FERGUSON: Absolutely.
 WINFREY:  And--and, you know, tried to kill her, literally.
 Ms. FERGUSON:  Yeah.  They have.  They have.
 WINFREY:  Uh-huh.
 Ms. FERGUSON:  And I think that that's what's so exciting
 about two best friends like Diana and I is that we can grow
 together and transform together and we support each other.
 WINFREY:  Did you know--didn't mean to interrupt you,
 but did you know how miserable she was?
 Ms. FERGUSON:  No.
  She was very--she was very good at not showing it.
 FERGUSON:  And then when we--when I was there, living there,
 I sort of got to know more and more the pain--the pain
 she was in. Yeah.
 WINFREY:  Mm-hmm.
 WINFREY:  About--mm-hmm.  Mm-hmm.
 Ms. FERGUSON:  It is--it is very cruel and very painful
 when you are going to try and find the feelings within
 to be in the--such a public stage.
 WINFREY:  OK.  I know a lot of people who don't understand,
 because I--most-- I know, we live in a country--you know,
 we're capitalists.
  We believe that if you just had the money,
 everything is all right.  But most--so most people don't
 understand, if you have all that stuff,
 why don't you just behave yourself, do what you're told,
 keep the 30-watt bulbs--You know what I'm saying?—and...
 Ms. FERGUSON: Mm-hmm.
 WINFREY:...just play the game and go along with the program?
 Ms. FERGUSON:  You could do that.
 WINFREY:  Mm-hmm.
 Ms. FERGUSON:  You could do that.
  And the--and--and if that's what suits you,
 that's what suits you.
 FERGUSON:  But, I'm afraid, for Diana and I,
 we--we--we learn--we're like rivers.  We want to learn more.
  We want to go around the next corner.
  We want--we were hungry for life.  We're very curious.
  We're--I speak for myself here, not for her…
 WINFREY:  Uh-huh.
 WINFREY:  Mm-hmm.
 Ms. FERGUSON:  ...because she's not here.
 WINFREY:  To do this, to have this life means you
 ultimately lose yourself, whatever your self is.
 WINFREY:  That you can play the game--and it is the biggest
 game there is, is it not?
 Ms. FERGUSON:  Yeah. Yeah.
 WINFREY:  That's basically what it is.
 Ms. FERGUSON: Yes.
 FERGUSON: Well you go out there and you---
 WINFREY:  And you have to play by the rules.
 FERGUSON:  ...play by the rules.
  I must explain that--that the--the British press
 at the moment is completely and--and utterly cruel
 and abusive and--and so invasive. 
