Hey, you're listening to the
road to a billion podcast.
I'm your host Stefan Georgi and I'm
glad to have you with me here today.
The road to a billion is a call in radio
show style podcast, where you can ask me
questions about freelancing, copywriting,
entrepreneurship mindset, scaling funnels,
relationships, money, really, whatever
the reason it's called the road to a
billion is because my different offers
that I've written copy for will hit
a billion dollars in sales this year.
And my goal is also to make a direct
impact in the lives of 10 or a billion
plus people in the next 10 years.
And that's where that's mental,
emotional, financial, and what have you.
So I'll start taking calls in
about five minutes from now.
The way that works is that you're
going to put your questions into the
Q and A section on zoom, and then.
My friend, Ed Reay will go through, review
those questions and feed them to myself.
And also to my very special guest,
who is Amber Spears, who is here.
If you don't know Amber, she is
recognized as an industry thought leader
in the affiliate marketing arena and
a prolific connector and networker.
Amber is the cofounder of East
fifth Avenue or world-class flight
management education company and agency.
In the last few years, the agency has
generated $68 million in front and launch
sales during over 6 million leads and
over eight figures a year for our clients.
On the education side, East
fifth Avenue has trained over 250
companies and help them generate
over $320 million from her methods.
Amber is a highly sought after
trainer, coach, and keynote speaker.
She has spoken on in keynote stages like
traffic and conversion affiliate summit
west, war room affiliate summit Europe.
I saw clipping platinum, I think as well
was the one that's on there, I noticed.
And her clients past and present
include ClickBank, Agora, Dr.
Mark Hyman, Dr.
Isabella Wentz, the truth about
cancer, energy blueprint, Venus
factor, the tapping solution,
mindful to genetics and many more.
So I say, Amber is a badass.
I really mean it as you can tell.
And Amber is awesome for you to thank you
for joining me and for being here with us.
My gosh, my pleasure.
Anything, when you asked you to do
anything, it's a, it's a resounding
hell yes or no, because you're
one of my favorite humans ever.
And I love talking to you.
So I just, I think this
is gonna be really fun.
And I think this, this format is so cool.
Like most of the you know, most of the
shows I'm on, they're like prerecorded
and they let me know later on, you
know, when stuff's gonna go live
and like, this just seems like so
much more fun and leave it to you to
think of something like this as this
cool.
Yeah.
Oh, well, yeah.
It is a lot of fun.
I'm stoked.
You're here and it's gonna be awesome.
And, as always, we are joined by you know
Ed Reay, my co-host and the fielder of
questions and also the fielder of dreams.
I don't know.
Does that make sense?
It just, it felt right
as it was coming out.
Ed Raey, you wanna go
and give a quick intro?
I don't have a cool bio for you.
Yeah, I'm still working on it.
I'm changing my bio everyday,
but hey, I'm Ed Reay.
I'm the Facebook compliance guy.
If you want to run on Facebook and
scale fast and furiously without
fear of getting banned or shut down.
I'm you got, there you go.
Awesome.
Perfect.
I love it.
Perfect.
Nailed it.
So yeah, we'll start taking
questions in just a minute or two.
And like I said, feel free to
just pop those into the Q and A.
And we'll kind of go through
and, and we'll answer them live.
It'll be a lot of fun.
Sometimes on this show I'd like to
do a kind of an opening monologue.
We're all rant about something.
And it's really fun to do that.
Given, it's like the radio forecast
format, but honestly, I don't
really have a monologue like today.
And I was thinking, I'll just take five
minutes to catch up with Amber cause
I haven't talked to you Amber since we
had dinner at that Mexican restaurant
or something a couple of weeks ago,
but it feels like it was longer.
So it feels like decades ago.
But it was, it was good.
I gotta go back to it.
How are you, how have you been?
I think good.
I, I was in the desert for five days.
Yeah, I just got back.
We were, we were out there.
I can't tell you who I was with,
but I was out there with a bunch of
like industry thought leaders and
movers and shakers for five days.
And we did like our own birdie man.
Some day we dress up in costumes
and just had a ton of fun.
Some like really filled up from that.
Cause I feel like, you know, we've all
been craving, like live events so much.
We've all been like craving
that kind of human interaction.
So my cup spill it over.
But I can't tell you who's there for
multiple reasons being that there
are haters and people that, you know,
they think different things and think
that we should be wearing mask or
not wearing a mask, like whatever.
I'm just going to tell you, I'm
not going to tell you either way
if we wear mask or not, but, it was
delightful and I enjoyed it so much.
That's awesome.
I'm glad you enjoyed it.
Yeah, don't worry about who it is,
but I, I, I know I, when I put in the
one email, I was like, was this true?
I'm like, Amber's network
is way better than mine.
Cause like no more bad ass.
I mean, I'm teasing, but it's like,
you know, even, like at the, the most
mastermind at ClickBank, like our
traffic and conversion last year.
And then like Joe Polish just shows up and
talks for awhile and I'm like, "Oh shit."
Like, you know, it's like, "Oh, you
know, like Amber is a good friend."
So when she said, "Hey, stop by."
And I'm like, "Oh my God, Amber
is just like, she's so cool.
I want to be Amber Spears when I grow up."
I want to be you when I grew up.
It's like, we always want, we, we
don't have, you know what I mean?
I definitely have a different network.
Right.
Cause I, I started out
like in the ClickBank.
Like world.
Like I started in direct response in the
Agora slash big girl, because they came
on with, you know, Craig Valentine, right.
When he had bought early to rise
from Agora and there were still
like sorting all that stuff out
and all of his offers on ClickBank.
So that's where I started.
And then I started going into a
lot of like health biohacking.
Alternative medicine
space and then financial.
So I, you know, I've collected really
cool friends and experiences from being
able to hop in kind of these different
industries and being able to see, you
know, who's like rising and falling
and what's working and like, you know,
all the things in every niche has been
super cool and like educational for me.
So that's why I have this random
collection of assortment of people that
you might not know, because I've been
popping around these different places.
No, that makes perfect sense.
And it's super cool.
Cause one thing I love when I've gone
to Mimosa Mastermind events, and even
just when I did that, when I presented
for your, your tribe, your group,
it's like, yeah, people, e-comm stuff
with influencers, but building these
eight figure companies, sometimes nine
figure companies and they're doing it.
with wait, there's direct response
involved, but then they're,
they're building these like big
consumer brands too, and they're
doing really awesome stuff.
And so I kind of love,
you know, your universe.
And then of course there's the overlap
with like Agora is a big client
of yours and like the people from
ClickBank and, the Brad Howards of
the road and all that kind of stuff.
So, there's an overlap, but I do
love how there's also, we both have
these sort of other spirits too.
It's, it's no pun intended of the
spirits, but it's pretty cool.
Yeah, it is really cool.
I think that's like, That was my favorite
part about this entire industry is
how much of what we do is just super
relationship and connection base.
Like really, like, I, I feel so
secure in my life in a way I've
never felt given like my, you
know, super fucked up background.
Like I feel like, you know, when
I was younger, I had no security
and no safety and no real like
relationships and those no community.
And now, you know, I really feel
a one, a part of a real community.
Like all the people on this call,
all the people in our industry.
Like I really truly feel like
they're real friends of ours.
It's not just like lip service.
And I know that if I stumble.
Or if I fall that like these people are
going to pick me up, not only because
you know, that has actually happened
to me and I've stumbled and I've had
people pick me up, but also like, because
we do that for each other and it just
feels so amazing to be able to make
money with your family and your friends.
Right.
Cause that's really what it feels like.
Yeah.
A hundred percent.
And I, and you, you've done
such a great job of cultivating
that, I don't know, just, just
that, that ethos and everything.
And like I said, even every, like,
it's funny cause you and I like,
I've been to other mimosa events and
you know, we've known each other.
We've had conversations on the
affiliate side and, and obviously
you're speaking at the coming up
upcoming virtual event for copy
accelerator, which I'm super pumped for.
I'm not trying to get you to tease
like a takeaway or two, but, you
know, won't put you on the spot yet.
You can kind of think about it and
then if you don't have anything yet,
you can just make it up, you know?
Well, no, I actually, I'm taking
it really seriously about creating
something super custom for you.
And, you know, I was kind of teasing
it on my email this morning, but,
we're actually retiring my agency.
Oh, well, we're going to have a, we're
going to have a, a retirement party
and everything alone and I, cause we're
like serious, we're retiring the agency.
And, it, that means that when I teach next
week, I'm actually going to be revealing
some of like the dirtiest laundry secrets
of being an agency owner, as well as being
on the other side of, of what I've seen.
Yeah.
Over the last, you know, seven years
doing affiliate marketing, maybe eight.
And you know, also just, you know,
the things that I think owners really
need to know that I normally could not
say, cause I'm filtered and censored.
Right.
And also, you know, the things I want
them to know because I have to be filtered
and censored coming from, you know, the
other side, owning an affiliate management
agency, being a formal of you know, people
still think I'm an affiliate manager.
I'm not, I, I haven't.
Well, I've into infusion
software, pulled links.
They're like done anything and probably,
yeah, three years I oversee the accounts.
Yeah.
They do all that, you know, and I handle
the larger affiliate partners, but,
there's a lot going on, on both sides
that I think we need to get a lot of
clarity on, both as owners and also
as, you know, as affiliate managers
and people that are in that role.
So that's one of the things
that I'm going to be sharing.
I'm kind of nervous about it because
it's you know, it's a fuck, it's,
it's very, it's a very non, like
not politically correct stuff that I
really think, you know, is kind of the
underbelly of, of affiliate marketing.
Also think that it's, you know,
things that no one wants to talk
about, they kind of tiptoe around
it, including things like pay.
Right.
I can't tell you how many
owners text me or call me.
And they're like, "Hey, listen,
you know, this is how much I'm
paying my affiliate manager.
Like, is it enough?
You know, is it too much?."
Like, you know?
Yeah.
Is it competitive?
You know, and like, I have   people
coming to me, like, it's how much
I am paying my affiliate manager.
Like, this is how much I'm getting
paid, you know, is it competitive?
And my whole answer is like, why are
we not talking about this in public?
Right.
Why are we not talking about the rates?
And who should really be paid what, and
who's worth it and who isn't and like
how, you know, what the expectation is.
And like, cause you know, training
over 250 different businesses.
I know what pretty much everyone
gets paid either because they
tell me, or because I'm literally
in the back of their businesses.
I'm seeing their commissions.
You know, this is part of it, it's like,
I want to know if you have a talented
affiliate manager, how do you keep them?
Right.
Because there's so much
turnover in this space.
I mean, why is that?
And it's not just the pay, but
a large part of it is the pay.
And it's not the cocaine.
I mean, it's part of it.
Super hot right now.
Apparently it's super hot.
It's like back in style.
Yeah.
So it's back.
but you know, I think we need to
have these conversations openly,
which is like, what is a going
right, for affiliate managers?
What is the standard or what are
they, you know, what are they worth?
And if you're an owner like.
If you're underpaying them, you
should know that because that's one
of the reasons why people get poached.
If you're overpaying them,
you should know that.
Yeah.
Right.
Like, so, and I just think that
everyone is afraid of saying this
kind of stuff out loud, and I've been
very fortunate to look on the back.
So that's one of the things
that I'm actually going to be
revealing for the first time publicly,
which is what everyone privately
comes to me about and says, and by
the way, the reason why they come
to me is because I'm a Balt, right?
I'm like, I'm never going to share,
who's getting paid what, and, you
know, whatever, because that's
just, it's a bad thing for me.
It's a, it's a break of my own word and
my own trust, but I do see the ranges.
Right.
I do see like, wow, this person is
like, you know, is really overpaid
for the results that they're doing.
This person's really underpaid
for the results and the amount
of work that they're doing.
Like, you know, if you want security,
if you're an owner that's been sitting
around wondering like, "Oh my God,
is my person going to get poached?"
Like, come talk to me and I'm happy to
look at what you're paying and what your
incentives are and you know, everything
else and give you like some feedback,
because I think this is the important,
you know, part of this is, you know, just
it's, it doesn't need to be a secret.
And I think the more that we talk about
this and where we get it out in the
open, the more we can really decide,
you know, and, and have a feeling of
security that we're, we're doing the
right, we're doing right by our team.
And we're doing right by our owners,
we're doing right by our companies.
You know, kind of what they expectations
of success are and how to measure it,
how to measure like what to measure
when you're working with affiliates.
Like if you're an owner on the call or
even affiliate manager, I can't tell
you, I mean, these words are going to
resound with you, but it's like, you
know, so what big affiliate partners are
going to be mailing for us this week?
It's like, dude, you know, these are
like, how many, like seriously, like
if you're an owner on the car to Philly
manager, like how many times as you hear
that, or how many times do you say that?
Right?
This is just like nuts, that's not the
best way to, to get the answers and
the results that you're looking for,
but it's the most commonly used phrase.
Like how do you motivate affiliate
managers and even motivate your team?
How do you incentivize them?
How do you incentivize affiliate partners?
You know, how do you rank them?
Like just all these things that I I'm
going to be covering in the talk that
I'm, I'm already sweating a little
bit and be like saying out loud but I
can say, cause I'm like unmuzzled now.
I'm unmuzzled now.
This is going to be wild.
Dude.
That's awesome.
No, I can't.
I can't wait.
And you're right and there are
so many things like as a, yeah.
One thing that, that a unique thing
I have is that as a copywriter and
working with clients and then teaching,
coaching, but then actively running
different businesses and health
supplement companies and things.
And, yeah, I mean, I see it all the time.
Cause it, well, there's so many affiliate
managers who are sort of not mad.
I mean, 99, I don't know, 95% of the
affiliate managers don't maximize
their relationships and their sort
of thing where it's like, you know,
you hear about, "Well, affiliates
promoted this for a month, but
then they moved to something else."
Cause you know, affiliates have
shiny object syndrome and they,
and it's like, yeah, that's true
but it's like also your job is to
like bring them back to like stuff.
And I think that there's a lot of,
complacency sometimes with a lot
of affiliate managers and then the
affiliate space and so even stuff
around that, like as far as like how
to, yeah, how to get the most out of
your affiliate manager, or if it's
you yourself, who's getting affiliates
for your offer or whatever it is.
I think there's just a lot of important
stuff that needs to be shared there.
So the fact that you're going to
be doing that is pretty exciting.
Yeah.
I've like I said, I'm nervous about
it, but, you know, and I think
that this is like, this is like the
main thing it's like, you know, I
feel so fortunate to be able to see
so many different sides of this.
Right.
Like I started out as an affiliate
manager and I had a ton of success
and that's, you know, we built East
fifth, you know, we, we've blown it up.
I've, I've seen that side of it.
So I, I've done the client
work the interaction with them.
You know, like if you're an affiliate
manager, I, you shouldn't be writing copy.
You shouldn't be dealing with tech
issues, shouldn't be doing alot.
But most of them are right.
That's just a fact.
And then the, the owners are,
you know, harping on them.
"Hey, why aren't we getting this results?"
Well, they're spending 75% of
their time doing admin work.
You know, and what universe you
think they're going to have these
exceptional results and have
time to do other things, right?
There's, there's a lot of, of
that going on, which I understand
from the client perspective.
On the other side, coming in and
training at different companies,
I'm seeing so often that they are
the wrong people in the roles.
Right.
Like, they're just like,
you know, lone as genius.
Yes.
My business partner, co founder of East
fifth, you know, last year she just
took it on herself to go out and, and do
the Colby scores of like 50 of, of what
we considered to be the top four, you
know, just in general affiliate managers
in the space, just to see, you know,
we also had some of the people that we
considered to be the worst performers.
So if you're hearing this, you know,
you're in either camp, just kidding.
I'm sure you're a great, but like,
you know, we've seen a very clear
pattern on this, like, who should
really be in the seat, driving
the affiliate department, right?
Like for example, a high quickstart,
that's the type of person that you
want in the seat, driving the business,
because they're not going to sit there
and obsess over every single detail
of your products and you know, the
cookies at first cook, you're laughing.
No, they're just going to go and
get on the phone and start making
phone calls and that's a type of
person that you need in that seat.
And also, you know, looking at how
you're incentivizing them, right?
Like if you're paying somebody 120K
a year, and they're not incentivized
to raise the revenue of the business,
like you're going to be disappointed.
Right.
And having clarity conversations like
as owners, I see most people don't even
have quotas for their affiliate managers.
And just the thought of saying
that makes them shy away.
And it's like, well, they need to
have quotas because people need to
know what, you know, what to go after.
And they need to know if
they're performing well or not.
Right.
And then the other part of it as
a business owner, I see so often
a business owner might make like
scorecard or KPI or a quota.
And then what they end up
doing is they're so busy.
They just never turned around
and like actually review that.
With their affiliate managers
on a regular basis until there's
something so wrong, numbers are so
off, that's going to take months or
weeks to kind of dig out of that.
And they just, they don't have the time.
But, you know, my thing is like if you're
an, a business owner, you better make the
time for the people who are making money.
You know what I mean?
Like, they should be getting
some of your time because they're
generating revenue for the company.
And so just see all these different
things and then also being a
product owner myself, right?
Like we have our keto cookbook
partnership with Brad Howard, like,
you know, we've sold what 700,000
copies in the last two, like two
and a half years physical product.
Yeah.
So, I mean, it's cause Brad, but like,
you know, we, I also want an owner, so
of a product owner, so it's like, I get
to see all this stuff and I just see
all these places where we can improve.
And I think that's the thing about me
that I'm actually really glad to be
unleash on is like when I first started
training affiliate managers, I said shit
that was very like uncool to them, which
is, I don't think we should be sending
affiliate managers to events to get
fucking wasted on the company credit card.
I don't.
I think that's embarrassing.
To me because I'm associated with them.
I love to get drunk
more than anybody else.
So first and foremost, anybody that
knows me knows I love to party.
Okay.
I love the party.
No one loves the party more than me.
Okay, It's fact.
Freaking fact, okay.
No one loves the party more than me.
Okay.
But the problem with that is, is when
I'm there for work, I'm there to close
and there to represent the company.
I'm there to get business going.
And of course, I'm going to be
passing out drinks and doing the
things in a company credit card,
but that's not the main focus.
The main focus for me is making
sure that we're getting a good ROI.
And, you know, I first started
coming in and say, "Hey, we
need scorecards for the events."
Let's take a seriously.
Who are you planning on meeting?
Why do you want to meet them?
You know, what do you
want to get out of this?
You want them to get in your
auto responders, thank you pages.
Do you want them to join your launch?
Like get clear, right?
Like, you know, just really come in.
And I started noticing that when I first
started doing this, I come into a business
and I'd be looking at these things like.
Why are you not getting
ROI from your events?
Why are we having down months?
Like, what is happening?
Have you tried this?
Have you done this?
Have you done the basics?
And the answer was always like
no, or every excuse in the book.
And so people just didn't, you
know, for the first year it was,
I was like, am I in the right?
Am I doing the right thing?
I trying to call out these things
in the industry and I'd go to
one company and help them fix it.
And that person would leave
and go to another company.
And then that other second company
would hire me to come in and fix it.
Cause they were having good results
and that person would leave because
they don't like the KPIs and they
don't like the quotas and they
don't like the cracking down on it.
But it's not me being mean.
It's.
Let's be proud of the work that we do.
Let's have a lot of fun in the work that
we do, let's have clarity in the work
that we're doing, right, on both sides.
And let's just get better because when
we get better, we reach more people.
We're happier.
We know like what we're doing,
our incomes are growing.
We have harmony on the team and
yeah, it's not as fun, but it ends up
being much more fun in the long run.
So I actually really am excited to be
unmuzzled because now it's like, well,
you know, now I can really talk about,
you know, some of the dark stuff so we
can shine a light on it and we can fix it.
Yeah, I love it.
Dude, there's so much good there and I
mean, everybody's seeing the chat, people
are just so I'm so pumped about this,
which is awesome, but I totally agree.
No, I, even for with, with, with my
first off cell phone company and IMRA
implemented KPI's after a year and a most
who've heard me talk this whole thing
where it's like, I grossed a million
dollars the first year and lost 200,000.
And the next year I grossed 23 million in
net netted a couple of million and like
give me a, you know, Blake Hartshorn,
who was, he transitioned in the second
year, kind of our main affiliate person.
And then I was very active too, which I
think is important for business owners,
especially early on is like, they
probably do need to go out and be the
sales person and help get affiliates.
Bringing them in, and then they
can hand them off to people
who manage those relationships.
But I remember I gave Blake these KPIs
and we started having weekly meetings
where everyone in each kind of department
of my company have KPIs, but even on the
affiliate side and be able to track like,
okay, like here's our top affiliates?
Like here's how many sales they did.
And then look at trends over time, right?
Like, Oh, well last month
this person did this much.
This month is down here.
What happened?
And like, just like looking
at the data and treating it
like gosh for real business.
And like with real measurable outcomes,
was just like, you know, this is a
massive game changer in a huge reason.
Yeah.
We were able to 23X, our, our revenue.
So I just really, really, you
know, it's so funny, people are
saying, just keep rolling on this.
We are going to get his
questions in a minute or two.
But you know, it's, this
stuff is really important.
Like, and I think Amber too,
one thing I talk about is.
Even as a copywriter.
It's like, Hey, you know, people
ask for advice, like I'm an
upcoming copywriter or whatever.
I'm always like just obsessively
focused at being the best.
Right.
And take it really seriously.
Anyone I write copy I think about it.
Like as a bro, I use my sports
analogies where I think about if
like, you know, Tom Brady, who I don't
even like the Patriots or Tom Brady.
So it's always funny.
I use them, but it's like that guy doesn't
sort of like half ass it sometimes.
And he takes some games off.
Right.
It's like that guy's obsessed
with being the best and winning
and then he's like the best.
Like Michael Jordan, wasn't sort
of like never take the season off.
Right.
It's like he came in all the time.
And like, you know, when you do that, like
the, the, when you do those processes and
you focus on that, the outcomes happen.
And it's the same thing with
affiliate management and building
relationships and driving sales.
And, so I just love hearing you say
that, cause you're even that nobody
wants to talk about and, and yeah,
even, gosh, at events, I've had the
same thing where it's like we have, we
send people to an affiliate event and,
and even this is not just affiliate
managers, but our cost center, we did it.
And then you hear that like, they're
like blackout drunk, like getting lost,
like can't find their way to the hotel.
And it's like, okay.
So I just paid for you to go have
your, like, get away from your
family and get blackout drunk and
like, That's why I'm paying you.
So I liked that you kind of came
with a, you know, crack the whip
kind of a mindset a bit there.
It's good.
Yeah.
And I mean, it's like, you're right.
It's stuff that no one wants to do.
And no one wants to talk about, right.
Like no business owner that I know
for the, I mean, for the most part
that I've met, they really don't
want to sit down and, and like make
scorecards and hold their team to it.
They really don't want to manage
their affiliate managers.
What they want is to just wave a magic
wand, to paint experienced affiliate
manager, to come into their business
with their network of contacts, take
over their, their, you know, their
affiliate program and just grow the
revenue of that any problems whatsoever.
Right.
And just like blow it up.
That's what they want.
And I get that and I understand that.
And there are a few people in our industry
that I can think of, you know, just top
of mind that could do things like that.
Right.
You know, people was asking who
were my favorite affiliate managers?
Jamie Mascherano.
She was one of the absolute, best
people I've ever worked with.
She, you could pay her, she
can come in and do that.
Christina McKay, right.
As you can pay her to come in and do that.
These are people that have
had track records of success
over and over and over again.
So, you know, people like
that are worth top dollar.
Right.
And then it's just like
looking at the rest of people.
It's like, how many at bats have they had?
You know, not everybody is a unicorn
and like they need structure, they need
stability, they  need systems, right?
Like.
To really succeed to, to do
what you want them to do.
And then also they need constant
motivation and support, which I just
think that, you know, most people
just can't do from the owner side
or they're not willing to do it.
And I'm always just like I said,
the fuddle, like, why are you
not spending time with people
who are generating money for you?
Why will you not slow down and
see what's working, what's not
working what needs to be adjusted.
And you know, when you're talking
about, I want to go back to what you
said, like as an owner, if you're
just starting and you're the owner of
an offer, you really should be going
around and meeting the top affiliates
yourself and building relationships
with them because that's going to be
critically important to your success.
And then once you hire an affiliate
manager, one thing that I really, you
know, want to make clear to everyone
on the call and in general is sometimes
as a business owner, you're still
gonna have to step in with some of
those relationships because there's,
they're not going to talk to your team.
Some people just aren't.
And then if you keep hammering on
your team, like, why didn't she
talk to this affiliate partner?
I know there's a buddy of mine
who should answer your emails.
It's like, well, I need your help because
I don't have that relationship with him.
This person doesn't look at me as a peer.
He looks at you as a peer
and I need your help.
And then they start
getting salty about it.
And they're like, well,
why do I pay you then?
And it's like, well, you pay me to handle
the 99 other percent of the people.
Right.
And like, motivate them.
I need your help.
And really, I think that's a big thing
that I see a lot in the industry is like,
You know, how do you, how do you kind of
manage and navigate all of this and how
much leeway do you give and how do you,
how do you get these people, you know, on
each side of the aisle, the affiliates,
affiliate managers to collaborate and
play together in, in a good cohesive way.
So you can keep your affiliate
revenue going like this.
Instead of being like a freaking
roller rollercoaster, you're having
like whiplash all the time and
you don't know what's going on.
Part of that is no KPIs, no support,
no continued education, right?
Like you just have to keep watering it.
And that's how it grows
and grows consistently.
Yeah.
I love that one and I think.
Yeah, it's funny.
I was just thinking, as you're talking
about, these are just gonna be like
random examples, but it's like, you
know, Bob Iger, who's the CEO of
Disney and he has a pretty good book.
I liked his book.
Well, like you know, who talk about
when they're opening up their first
Disney park in Shanghai, and he's like,
they're like meeting with different,
like people from the Chinese government
or the strategic business partners.
If Warren Buffett's trying to do a deal,
he goes and meets with people, right?
There's certain people that like
the bit, even these billionaires are
going and trying to wine and dine
or court or develop relationships.
That's like, if they're doing
that, like Jeff Bezos is like the
richest man in history and he'll
go meet with important vendors.
Right.
If he's going to have to
do that, like, why are you.
But for you, it's like your affiliate
manager, you hired two months ago.
Like they should handle everything
and you should just be able to
like, you know, be on the beach.
and again, they'll be able to handle
a lot of it, but, but I, but it's true
I'm totally guilty of that as well.
I've, I've, I've made that mistake
of I'm gonna throw money at it.
I'm going to hire a bunch of affiliate
managers and like, "Hey, go bring in
your book and go, just drive sales."
And then you're like, why aren't you
like, you know, why aren't you doing it?
Right?
It's like they are driving sales,
but there's certain ones where your
personal relationship is important.
So, yeah, I just, I think
that's great advice too, Amber.
Yeah.
And I would say, and I would say, you
know, this is, this comes up a lot,
but when you're thinking about how
hiring an affiliate manager, right.
And you're thinking about bringing
them on board, I would do a few
different things for due diligence.
One, definitely check their track record.
Right?
Like, it's just like so many of these
gurus that we hear about, right.
It's like they had one multimillion dollar
launch and now they're teaching everybody
how to do a million dollar launch.
And it's like, dude, Like come on.
Like I get it.
You have something to teach, but
are you, should you be charging the
same rates as someone who's done
40 multimillion dollar launches?
Probably not.
Right.
Like do your due diligence and
look at it and make sure you
have consistent wins over time.
That's a big one.
So really whether their track record,
talk to the companies that they came
from, it's a small industry really
figure out what their, you know, their
strengths and weaknesses, and then
coming in and just having a conversation.
Hey, you have a book of business, right?
I do.
It's my phone.
Right?
So like, what is my book of business?
Right.
That's why they hire me.
It's like, it's not just the gift of gab.
Right?
It's like the connections and stuff they
have, but I have a real conversation.
Okay.
Let's talk about all the people that
you have close relationships with.
Can you call, are you so close
that you can call them and get
them reengaged into the company?
Are you so close that you can
with confidence, say, yes, I
can bring this person in here or
are you going to need my help?
Right?
Or is this somebody that you just
talked to through your owner, or
you're only see, see them in emails.
You really don't have a
relationship with these people.
Right.
Really kind of figure out.
What this book of business
does, and then sit down and
have a conversation with them.
Like, Hey, if I'm paying you, you
know, four or five, $10,000 a month,
plus a percentage, like how much of
it increase of my current numbers
are, do you predict that you can do.
Right.
And let's have a real candid conversation
about my offers because another
thing I see people doing it's like,
they're like, yeah, hide the super,
super experienced affiliate manager.
Oh my god, crushing it.
He or she has been around for
10 plus years are amazing.
And I look at them like, okay,
well you're in the house space.
And this person came from PD.
Right.
So like, what are you?
You know what I mean?
Like I get, they have a big
book of business, but a big book
of business and another niche.
So like they have the skillsets,
but they don't have the context.
Right.
You know, and just like really looking
at like where they're coming from and
like what your expectation is because
I, if I were hiring, you know, and I
was hiring someone with experience, I
would want to hire someone experienced
track record in my niche, right.
With a bunch of contacts in my niche that
they, they have close relationships with.
I may or may not know, but I know
that my contacts are in good hands
with them, or they bring new contexts
with them that are going to be
valuable, not just a bunch, but like
some really good quality contacts
that can drive a lot of business.
And if not, then , I would say, you
know, hire on attitude, do the Colby
score, build them from the ground up.
You are going to have to give them
your relationships and wash it
closely intense them, but you're
going to pay a lot less money.
Right.
And it's going to be a very different
experience that you have them in house.
And this is just, you know, just kind
of like looking at these different
things, like really understand when
you're bringing someone on what
you're actually doing and also looking
to see if they're a culture fit.
Right.
Like, are they a lone wolf?
You know, are they someone that
bounces around company to company?
I call them mercenaries.
We all know that who these people are.
Right.
I'm not, I don't need to say any names.
We see what affiliate managers bounce
from company to company, to company.
They're mercenaries.
Right.
And there's nothing wrong with that.
By the way, I used to be a mercenary.
So I'm not, I'm not, you know,
throwing stones at glass house
before I started company.
That's what I did.
I was a mercenary.
I, they'd pay me a lot
of money to come in.
I'd bring a big book of business.
I bring in a bunch of traffic.
I bring in a bunch of relationships.
And then I leave.
Right.
And I dramatically impacted their
bottom line and I helped them a lot.
But like, if anybody thought
that I was going to be there for
the long run, they were wrong.
And if I made them think that
that was wrong of me, right.
Because like that wasn't my interest
was to stay into build this company.
You know, with them and to be an in house
in play, I'm not a very good employee.
I'm actually a terrible one, so
you really don't want me in there.
Right?
Like understanding who
you're working with.
Are you working with an evangelist,
someone who loves your company,
loves what you're doing.
They'll do anything for you.
They're just so proud of so excited
to be a part of your company.
You're going to treat them
differently than a mercenary, right?
And then you have like
all these things amazing.
I call them team players, everybody else
in between that are like hardworking,
heart-centered, you know, really
wanting to do well in the space, which
I think by and large that's 95, 99% of
people in our industry, they're fleet
managers, they really want to do better.
They really want to succeed in
their role, but they're bouncing
around a lot of times because.
Maybe they're underpaid
and they're overworked.
Maybe they, you know, they're,
they don't have structure.
Maybe they can never get
a hold of their owner.
You know, maybe they just
still totally isolated alone.
They don't know if they're
actually hitting goals or not.
Right.
Like that's where I see a lot
of the turnover happening.
Yeah, no, I love this.
I have gastric and has such a long
conversation about this and I love it.
This is fire.
So, okay.
That being said, I do want to try to
answer some questions and get to those
and, you know, god, man, we gotta just
get together and record more stuff.
By the way, I don't know just a guitar.
She was like, he replied to my email
about you last night and it was
like Amber's still in San Diego.
I haven't seen her in a year.
So like he mowed your gmail, your
personal one, but now he wants to get,
he wants us all to get dinner, stuff.
I love that.
So  yeah.
Yeah, a hundred percent.
Count me in that's again,
Nobody parties harder than me.
I'll be the takeaway.
Challenge accepted though.
Let's go.
Can we can do this?
Hey Ed, so that being
said, I know you've got.
I got 18 things in the Q and A
and, let's go ahead and answer
some questions and, and do that.
For sure.
Okay.
So I see a good question here from
Christie Johnson asked her parents
when she saw all the signs are good.
It's a good question, Amber, what would
you recommend for copywriters working with
people brand new to the affiliate world?
Nice.
So we're going to let well, let, what
we usually do is we'll, give that the
person who asked the question and we'll
let them kind of come on and we'll unmute
them and let them, kind of give context.
So I know if you knew that Christie
not surprised, not turning on
my video, how are you doing?
Right, how are you?
Good.
I'm always, you know, you know,
you're my favorite people.
I'm always so happy to see
you and interact with you.
Y'all are my favorite people too.
Love you, Christie.
It's such a gem.
She is a gem.
So yeah.
Offer owners who are new to affiliate
marketing, those are the only
people I'm working with right now.
And I'm really clear that this is what
I'm called to do and I'm loving it.
And I'm just curious to know what
kind of recommendations would you
give to a copywriter working with
someone new like them so far, it's
going very smoothly, but just in case
there are, we haven't launched yet.
We launch next week.
So.
Okay.
I love this question.
I love this question because I'm
so glad that it's going smoothly
for you right now, because my
prediction is that it will not.
Oh, okay.
And here and here's, and here's
what I was just gonna say to anyone
on the call, because this is a
sales related thing is laying the
expectation clearly in the front.
Here's the thing, people who are new
to affiliate marketing, they don't
understand the value that you bring in.
They don't, they have no idea.
Right.
They have all these
expectations in their mind.
They think that you're, you know, a wizard
that can do all these things for them.
And they don't really understand a lot of
times what they're actually dealing with.
Right.
So what I would say first and
foremost is sit down and really
map out and take, which is a little
bit too late right now, but I would
do it before the clicks go out.
And the testing goes out for your,
you know, your affiliate funnel.
I would just say, sit down and
really have a conversation like.
You know, what is your
expectation for this?
You know, for me, you know,
like, and here's, I'll give
you a really great example.
We brought on a client, two
years ago, who is amazing.
She's like one of my favorite people.
Right.
And we, we signed her, we signed
her up and we're going through
discovery call with her and we're
like, okay, how many, you know,
how many oftens do you want to do?
Do you want us to do per month for you?
And she's like 40,000 a month.
And we're like, okay, cool.
You know, we've, we've done that
many, many times, like no big deal,
but how many are you doing right now?
Well, my list is 40,000 names right now.
I'm like, okay, so it's taken you
three years to get to 50,000 names.
And you want me to bring you
40,000 names a month without,
without running it ourselves and
knowing how it really performs.
Without knowing if your tech stack can
actually support that much traffic.
Well, you know, all of these things now
without knowing the conversion rate,
without knowing if you pay affiliates
on time without knowing all it.
So the answer is no that's completely
out of the realm of reality.
And I think we should start at
a norm, like, you know, let's
try 4,000 opt-ins a month.
Right.
But like, you would not have known
this, had you not done a real deep
discovery, you know, in the beginning,
what are expectations of me, right.
Or if they had come to you and say,
Christie, you know, at the gate,
I expect a 15% conversion rate.
And you're like, dude, this is like a
brand new, like, you know what I mean?
Like, this is what are you saying?
And they're like, well, I get 15%
conversion rate for my own list.
It's like, okay.
Yeah.
From your own, like, you know what I mean?
Like you really have to, to dig
into the expectations up front
and you need to get it in writing.
Because people will forget.
Right.
And get it really clear.
Is it 15?
Are they paying you 15% of nets?
Are they paying you 15% of gross?
There's a huge freaking
difference and how you're billing
and what your motivation is.
And like all these
different things, right?
Like just really getting clear
is so, so, so, so important.
Do all the hearts up in the front seats.
Here's my, my, what's happened to
me and my life could be my
reality, but everyone wants to
talk about all the good stuff.
Didn't we do this, watch together.
We're going to blow it up.
You know, I'm going to hire you.
You're gonna be my number one
copywriter for the rest of my life.
Like I can't wait, they, we're
always talking about this stuff, but
what we don't talk about is, Hey,
what happens if this goes poorly?
What happens if I completely
miss your expectations?
How many rewrites am I willing
to do and by what time?
Right.
And you know, what are all, what are
all these things that like, you know,
you expect of me, if you, you know, if
you go MIA for three months and then you
come back, you know, three months later
and out of the blue one, an entirely
new rewrite, like how do we manage that?
You know, if you can't afford to pay me,
if, if you're paying me too much on the
backend, what do we do, how do we make
each other whole, these are just like,
these are just things that I just don't
see anybody doing really, really well
for the most part, until they get hurt.
And then they're trying to
figure out how to fix it.
Right.
And it's, it's this, it's the expectation
setting at the very beginning.
So if you're a copywriter working
with the client, talk about the
good stuff and the bad stuff, right.
Both of those matter, and really have a
calmer, have deadlines, have expectations,
you know, network copywriters are
notorious for not making deadlines.
Yeah.
We know this for everyone
on this phone call.
Why not?
Because it's, I have a deadline
for tomorrow then I'm like,
right, right, right, right.
But like, and having
that conversation, right.
It's like, Hey, you know, what
do we do around deadlines?
No, there could be things like
we have an actual deadline,
which is like the deadline.
This is like the dead day deadline,
which is, you know, September 5th.
And then we have like the loose
deadline, which is, I would
like to see it by September 1st.
Right.
And, but I need it by the fifth
because if it's not in by the
fifth, I can't do my launch.
Right.
It's just getting really clear
around all of these things and how
to communicate, you know, what's the
best way to communicate with you.
You know, is it through Skype?
Is it through Slack?
Is it through text?
Is it a phone?
Like, you know, how often
do you want to talk to me?
How often do you want
me to check in with you?
It's like, you know, all these things,
get this all out of the way upfront,
you are going to really, really have a
much through their time, down the road.
And you're also going to know, you
know, I like to do a thing, and this
is from Alona where it's like, what
are you going to be thrilled with?
What are you gonna be happy with?
And what are you going
to be disappointed with?
And let's get really, really clear
on each one of these things so that
I know what to really strive for.
I know it's going to make you
happy if I do this, you're gonna,
you're gonna, you're gonna refer
me to your friends and if we're
here, you're gonna be disappointed.
We need to figure out a way to
make each other whole right.
And just get really, really,
really clear on that.
So thankfully, I did set
expectations with her.
She's had a few failed launches.
She's tried to have traffic driven to it.
She's into rapid trial.
Our challenges, we didn't know like, ooop,
I'm not trying to put you on front street
right here, but I just realized something.
So Stefan, Stefan has the ability
to submit copy for feedback.
I don't think we do.
So we're both a little terrified
because nobody's looked over our stuff.
You know, so we don't know.
You're like, Oh God, what do we do?
So we set expectations.
It'd be great to have eyes
on the copy prior to launch.
I don't know how that might work
in traffic tribe, but, yeah.
Expectations have definitely
been set really, really hard.
I'm setting them almost every day, even
though I set them from the beginning.
Yeah.
Yeah, it's smart.
It's smart.
It's really important for everyone.
And I like that you keep checking
in on those expectations and
having that conversation.
Like what I see a lot of people
doing is they set the expectations
up front and they never revisit them
and they never go back to see, like,
are we on track for these things?
And if we are aware or not, if
we are, we need to make sure
we congratulate ourselves.
Right, right.
Because we just don't do that.
Most of us celebrate until the end.
It's like the, the grind is it should be
celebrated too, if you're moving forward.
And if you're not having that
common, Hey, you know what I thought
I could do it by September 5th.
You know, my house burned down.
I don't even have a laptop right now.
So I'm going to, we know we're going
to need to readjust to this time.
Right.
And just like, I, you know,
just really like continue.
And that's the same thing
with affiliate managers.
Like if you set their quotas at the
beginning of the month, you should
be checking in on them weekly.
Hey, are we going to hit this quota?
Why or why not?
Do you need my help?
You know, who's balking,
who stopped, you know, who's
stopping, who's the bottleneck.
Yeah.
Like let's figure out what's going on
and just keep, you know, keep doing that.
But I would say great Christie,
if you have not had any issues.
But yeah, our expectations,
our expectations are bitch.
You know, and like everyone
has a different vision.
You know, if I tell you right
now, you know, think about a box.
Every single one of us are gonna think
someone's gonna think of a cardboard
box and he have a plastic box.
Someone's going to think of like,
you know, just like different, like
we all think things differently.
And so that's why it's important to
just get it out and get really good.
Get specific from your client.
Not, I want to make a
million dollars this year.
It's like, okay, well, okay,
well let's break it down.
What really is that per month?
And probably month one.
It's not going to do as good.
Right.
So, you know, just like really.
Really getting clarity.
Okay.
If we don't hit a million dollars,
what would you be happy with?
Well, I'd actually be happy with 200k.
Wow.
That's a stretch.
So maybe we can put the
stretches at 300,000.
You're happy at 200,000.
We're disappointed at a
hundred thousand, right?
Just really like that's, that's the range.
That's awesome.
Of course, sorry, I didn't mean
to talk already, but Christie,
thanks for that question.
That was an awesome one.
And always such a pleasure to have
you, yeah, Amber, I, I love that.
Two things that came to mind too, as you
were just dropping crazy massive wisdom.
And then if you look at the chat,
all people were just like, one person
was like, I think Pedro was like,
where, where do I pay the invoice
for the value that I'm dropping on?
I'll send you my PayPal.
Hey, Amber, at, but, yeah,
so I love that goal thing.
Like, you know, Justin and I hired a
Jen Cam and her team tells us about
our events and she's been awesome.
I always seen Jen Cam's praises, and,
they did the same thing with our event
for copy starter back in February.
And then now they're helping
with this virtual event and
it's like even goals for, okay.
We're selling tickets.
So, all right.
What's like the minimum amount of
tickets that we're going to sell.
What's like the.
Yo we're happy one and
what's our stretch goal.
And then obviously people
come to our mastermind.
We're hoping that they all
enroll into our mastermind.
So same thing there.
And it's actually just so helpful.
So for example, for the virtual event,
the goal was like, alright, well, if we,
you know, sold 80 tickets, we'd be like,
you know, that's kind of the MOUs, right?
Cause it's the virtual event.
It's half the price.
A hundred is like, we're really happy.
And if we get to like
120, 130, that's like.
Huge hit out of the park.
And I think we're at 104 hundred
five tickets sold right now.
Awesome.
So it's like, but then just
knowing, having that measurement
of like, okay, perfect.
And it gives you more calm, I
think, because then, you know, like
there's an alignment for like, Cool.
This was my expectation.
I'm doing what I'm supposed to be doing.
It's working and you're not sitting
there sort of freaking out about,
you know, should I have done better?
Should I have done worse?
You've very premeditated.
What those outcomes are?
And of course now there's still 24 hours
and there's always people who come at
the last minute and buy tickets cause we
stopped selling to tomorrow for the event.
And so we'll probably get another,
like, I don't know, five to 10
or even 20 tickets, who knows.
But, but I just think
that's really good advice.
So that was awesome.
What a cool thing I wanted to mention
and this is Brian Spirenella, whose a
copy starter, a full mastermind member.
Sure.
This is for copywriters.
I think you may find this valuable
is having a kill fee sometimes in
your contract from like a royalty
standpoint, things like that, where
it's like, if you don't launch.
Within X amount of time upon me
delivering the final copy to you, then
you basically just give me this money.
Cause like I don't ask for royalties in
the future, but like he always has that.
So I don't know why I came up, I
guess, cause of the expectation,
how things can take a bit longer.
but I actually think that's one of
the coolest things is like, Hey, like.
You know, I'm going to give you
a copy, I'll meet my deadline.
But you know, you've said that you're
going to launch this in the next month
or two months or whatever, but even
then you have to have that conversation.
Okay.
Well, when do you think,
realistically, you're going to
launch this by and like, Oh, you
know what happens if it takes longer?
Well, I could take this off.
Okay.
Well, what happens if it goes
past, even that length of time?
You know what I mean?
Like.
Because I'm, I'm doing it, this rate
because I have this expectation of
royalties, but what happens if that,
but having those, it seems like a
weird thing to have like a weird
conversation or weird thing to put
in, but it's actually super brilliant
because then you're like protected.
You're like, you've had that conversation.
What happens if they get busy or they
decide not to launch it or whatever.
And so just having planning for
the worst as well as the best
is just, ah, I love that advice.
So.
Just awesome stuff.
Thanks.
Yeah.
I agree with you.
I think, I think that's like an, and
I'm just going to put myself in an
affiliate manager shoes for a moment,
like think of how nice it would be for
your affiliate manager to know what your
expectation was for them in terms of
results every single month or every single
week, and really know based on just pure
data and your efforts where you are.
Right, where you are with the company
and same thing for an owner, right.
To just know, and when you get this
clarity with them, where are we in this?
And, and, and Chris Carrera, I
would love for you to meet him.
But Chris has taught me something
that I've been using, like a ton of
my business, which is looking at, you
know, loan and our business partners.
So when we first started, we looked
at, you know, our company is us, right.
It's us.
We're besties, you know,
we're, we're in this together.
It's our company we're driving together.
There's really three of
us in this relationship.
It's her, it's it's me.
And it's the company, right?
Like really we have a
responsibility to the company.
So when we start looking at things,
you know, from that perspective, it
makes it easier for me to take off
my, you know, my friend hat to the
team cause my team, I love my team.
They're like my favorite people, like.
You got a lot.
They're my friends too.
But there's a time ready
to take off my friend hat.
I need to put on my owner hat
and I need to look at it from my
responsibility to the company.
Which is making sure that these numbers
are being hit, making sure that we're
tracking the right things, making sure
that we're doing the right things.
And part of that is that, you
know, what are you thrilled with?
What are you happy with?
You know, what are you,
what are you not happy with?
You know, where we at and looking at these
things objectively, that's why they're
set up so that we can not only know
where we're at, but also to have a little
bit of space from the emotion of it.
And I really think, you know, and I
you'll hear, I do this with my team.
Like, Hey, I'm taking
off my friend hat here.
And I'm putting on my owner hat here,
which means, you know, I'm looking at
this from the perspective of the company,
which means you're under performing.
Yeah.
Right.
And I need to know what's going on here.
Like why is it?
I need to dig in?
Is it a personal thing?
Is it that you're getting
bottlenecked by me?
You know, feel free to tell me
because my responsibility is to
the company at the end of the day.
And it's not me and Alona, because
if it was me and Alona, we would make
different decisions like looking at it
from that, that perspective of the company
has been very, very helpful for me.
And, it's changed the way
that we've run our team.
It's changed the way that I look
at opportunities it's changed
the way that I handle clients.
You know, that won't pay us.
For example, before it's like
client comes to us and like, Oh
my God, I had a terrible launch.
You know, like, or like
I'm extended this way.
I'd be like, okay, well, if you
had a bad launch, you know, we're
taking a piece of the launch.
So we also did not hit our numbers.
Right.
But I'm going to be, you know,
giving you more of a break now.
It's like, sorry.
Yeah.
From the perspective of the
company, we need to get paid.
We already took a loss and, you know,
we brought all the thunder, we brought
all the clicks that we said we would do.
We recruited all the affiliates that
we said we would do, and we need
to get paid what we were promised.
And it's the same thing with employees.
Right.
Like, and I just think like for anyone
on the call, it's an owner, like putting
that hat on, put, looking at things from.
You know, as a company, you
know, even if you're the sole
owner, there's two of you in that
relationship, it's you and the company.
That's a living and breathing entity.
And that's the reason why I like
those things like KPIs and scorecards,
and really knowing where you're at
every day as an affiliate manager.
I know like, let's say that I'm supposed
to be hitting, you know, a hundred
thousand dollars a month in sales
and I'm only hitting 30 every month.
I should be feeling anxiety for my job.
Yeah.
Right.
And if you're the owner sitting there
looking at it every single month they're
failing, that should be an indication
for you that you need to put and look
at things from the company perspective,
it might not even be their fault.
It could be your fault, right?
It could be that you're
not paying affiliates.
And no one wants to work with you anymore.
Yeah.
It could be that you're offering the tea.
Right.
Okay.
Well, but like when you get behind
for a minute and then you're like,
oh, and then it's like, but you
can't be mad at affiliate manager.
Right.
If you're like, something
happens like that.
So, yeah.
Right.
But listen, by the way
that happened to us too.
So like two years ago, we are 1.7
million in the red with the Quito
company that we have with Brad Howard.
And, you know, we still have it
and we've dug out of it, but it
took us a year to dig out of it.
And it was horrible for us
to go and not be, you know,
because we vastly what happens.
We vastly overpaid a CPA on a, we're
doing thousand 2000 sales a day at $19 CPA
for free plus shipping ghetto cookbook.
We thought we could dig out of it and it
took us a year and a half to do it right.
And we were behind.
Right?
So like, it was tough.
It was tough for us to have those
conversations to keep going back into
the room, you know, but no, we were like,
we are going to pay this and we did.
And I'm really proud of us for doing that,
but you know, it was it that happened.
So also understanding what's happening at
a company perspective to prevent affiliate
managers from hitting goals, because
it could be that the fleet manager is.
Hanging out, you know,
we're virtual right now.
It could just be like fucking awful day.
Like you don't know, or it could be
that, you know, they're trying and
trying and trying their hardest,
but they're running into all these
obstacles that the company's put in
front of them, including things like
broken tech or not paying affiliates,
or, you know, the offers fatigue.
You haven't had any new assets.
And for every right there could be just
so many different things, but without
looking at the data and measuring it
and having these clear expectations
and these tough conversations, that's
where it starts to get really muddled.
Yeah.
A hundred percent.
No, that's so cool.
I mean, it's so funny to think
about, and I will get to another
question in five seconds, but, yeah.
It's like I, with my first house up
in company, we got behind a little
bit, not with affiliates as much.
Well, one affiliate because like,
basically my county just didn't
pay them and I thought they did.
And then I realized I had this
big, like a six figure bill.
And then we basically were like, Hey,
we'll pay you over X amount of months and
cash flow to it.
And it was fine.
Then I did, I don't think he would
mind me saying this, but I had the
ventures of Dana Alexander and we had
a bank cease like, you know, several
million dollars worth of money.
And then we got behind,
but we paid everyone back.
And then with my agency happened, cause
a bunch of reasons and like, yeah, it
hasn't really happened with, with Cody,
fortunately, because I think eventually
the experience you get better at it.
But that, that's an important thing
to know too, because you see people
and they have these businesses and
they're doing high numbers and you're
like, Oh, everything must be great.
But even, you know, at a high
level issues are going to happen.
That's part of the nature of business.
And I mean, looking at with
Brad, the story you just
shared there, it's like, Yeah.
And then research has done like 70
million, I think so far since it launched.
And so he's got basically like a $70
million offer and a couple months.
Yeah.
But like, I mean, he's, I, I
cannot tell you how grateful I am
to be partners with him and have,
you know, that mentoring like.
You know, he, he put the bulk of that on
his back, like literally we're 1.7 million
in the red that man put that on he's back.
And he was like, we're
going to figure this out.
You know, I made the
call to do a bigger CK.
We're going to figure it out.
Literally was paying off
people on his own Amex.
Month after month after month, this was
before research, you know, like, like this
man, I cannot tell you like his integrity.
That's the reason why, you
know, one of the reasons, yeah.
I love him so much, but also
because he also understands it's
our word and our reputation on
the line to pay these people.
Right?
Yeah.
And to get it done, I don't care if
it takes me 15 years to pay it off,
but through his brilliance and him
things around and Alona, you know, and
her like, you know, brilliant mind.
And they're just like you focus
with the team, on booking traffic.
Like we'll figure out this stuff with
the money, but like, you know, I still
had to navigate those conversations
because who are they going to talk to you?
Hey, you owe us money.
Yeah.
We want to promote you,
but you owe us 70 grant.
Right?
Yeah.
Know, it's like, yeah.
But that's the thing it's just
like showing up with integrity
and being willing to have those
tough conversations and going to
people and be like, yeah, I get it.
We, you know, we're, we're trying to
pay down that, that bill, but like,
how are we going to pay down that bill?
You don't get more traffic,
you know what I mean?
Yeah.
So it's just, it's such like a balance,
but being willing to stick into it
and stick with it and just keep coming
back and keep doing like everything
that you can to keep your reputation
intact is just like so important.
A hundred percent.
Yeah.
Just having integrity.
And I think, yeah, people will
forgive a lot of your sins
if you have integrity, if you have.
And in being open communicating.
But it's also like not giving up.
I mean, that's the big thing, right?
If Brad gave up when he's 1.7 in the
hole and like, you know, then he doesn't
ever have to research and this huge
success and all that kind of stuff.
And like, I, you know, I can relate to
that for my own ventures where I've had
challenges and I give Dana Alexander
that same credit as well, where, you
know, we had issues and, yeah, man.
So, and that's the thing, right?
It's like, for all like the, the, the
dark days, like never lasts forever.
Right.
But you have to get through them and you
have to go through hell to get to heaven.
And like, it's just
such an important thing.
And the problem for a lot of people is
that they get into hell, say this sucks,
and then sort of just jump out and go back
to purgatory, but they never reach heaven.
Used an elaborate metaphor, but like
you one that I think makes sense.
So that's awesome.
Ed.
Let's do another, let's
do another question.
You're so good.
Holy shit.
I appreciate that.
It's me, unmuzzled.
Aren't you that muzzled?
You're getting book titles from the chat.
You, if you've seen a couple of
them, but it's like, Unmuzzled
the Amber Spears story.
I love it.
Thanks guys.
You guys have the copywriters here?
I'll take it.
Cool.
So you got a question from Conrad.
Conrad asks, how do you determine
the best way to measure success per
emails, earnings per subscriber versus
percentage of revenue or something else?
Yeah.
What's so called Conrad.
We had a car I'd ask.
Yeah, what's up Conrad, how you doing man?
Good man.
Good.
I'm a big kudos to you and Ed for the show
and always bring on these amazing guests.
So yeah, just, yeah, so I
guess a little backstory.
So I'm, I've been writing
emails for a while.
For a long time I was writing for more
so like coaching people, selling courses
and, like coaching and stuff like that.
And so, smaller lists like 10,000
people and stuff like that.
And so we, you know, so you do,
well, anyway, so now I'm right over
the last couple of months, I started
moving into writing for econ people.
And, so smaller, smaller priced
items, smaller ticket items.
Maybe more  items, but,
but much larger list.
Right.
And so.
So, yeah, so I guess
just trying to see, yeah.
How you guys measure email success.
So I guess like one of my main clients
right now, we went from, they just
started emailing in June really?
And so they were at about
14% of revenue from email.
and we've taken them way
up like July was 27%.
Last month was 38%, but we're still
at like 50 cents per subscriber.
Whereas normally, like, again, the stuff
that I was doing before it was, you know,
like a dollar per subscriber or more
of course was, was like the standard.
And it's just, you know, it's kinda.
I don't, I don't even know right now if
we'll get to even a dollar per subscriber,
with, with some of these econ people.
But again, the percentage of revenue is,
is, you know, is, is pretty significant.
and I guess I never even knew that number
before working with the other people.
I didn't know what they
were doing outside of email.
I just knew what we
were doing, with email.
So.
Sweet.
Does that make any sense?
Yes.
A lot of contexts, but then Amber.
Yeah, I know you're you're
already ready to go.
You had, I think you had some
insights there, so I'll let you,
tackle it if you're yeah, I mean,
I, first of all, it's homeschool.
I've never learned math.
So the only math I know is money math.
I'm really good at figuring out how to
categorize, how to get the money, where
to get the money from, you know, what
a good deal is for JVs, all of that.
So I will say that I'm not the
right person to ask because I'm
not an email marketing expert.
What I will say to you, you know, is it
sounds, it's great that you're increasing
the revenue month after month after month.
Right.
Which is like, It's going
in the right direction.
But you know, I think for our
perspective, from an affiliate lens,
what I would say is just rough money
math.
I'd want to see over, you know, a
dollar per click, which in itself
is not the best guesstimate.
You still need to know
on the other side, like.
Well, the open and the clickthrough
rate was on email because
that's a huge factor of this.
Like, did it actually perform well
on, on their side, in addition to
the actual conversion rate on the
page, they often, you know, to lead
like all that stuff is important.
I think most people only focus on,
you know, EPC or, you know, revenue
per user per name, but there's a lot
of other metrics that go into that,
that I would really be looking at.
And I'm a little suspicious
whenever I see someone being like,
Oh, it was, you know, we had a $7
earning per click and am I cool?
Segment must've been tiny, right?
Like let's just like 200 people
we emailed it to, they went crazy,
crash crashed, and it's like, I
really want to know like, what, how
big of a list did you send it to?
How many clicks did you
actually get from it?
What was the opening click through
rate compared to other, you know,
promotions that were being sent, right.
Like really understanding that journey.
And I think, you know, as affiliate
managers and offers, we always want to
showcase our offer in the best light,
but, you know, I'll tell you one and
a half percent, 1% conversion, right.
With a really good CPA is great.
Like that's super freaking good.
I'll take that all day long, like
a gorgeous offers by the way.
You know, I'm back there.
I used to think their offers convert
like five plus percent, but being
back there, they convert usually
around a 1%, but they're offering,
you know, 150 to $250 CPA on it.
So it backs out right?
Like backs up really, really, really well.
And it's something that you can scale
and like, and a girl always pays their
bills baby, which I love about them.
They always pay their bills.
Right.
You never have to worry about them.
When it comes to that.
And I just think really kind of
looking at every part of this and
getting really critical and challenging
yourself when you're looking at these
numbers from an affiliate perspective,
like, you know, if you see an insane
conversion rate, do you trust it?
Do you trust the person
that's telling it to you?
Can you dig a little bit more and
see, like how big was this actual
test before I started bombing away
to my entire email list on it, like
you're just really getting clarity.
And then when you find those right
opportunities double down on them,
because there are some offers, I mean
like research, like why would you not
be sending that every single week?
The offer is crushing it.
You know what I mean?
Like there another one, a
good one is Alex Miller.
She's pretty new on, on the space.
Emily Lark trained her.
She has her public floor offer.
Like the offer is crushing it, right?
So looking at offers, they're
doing well and keep mailing it.
Cause you're seeing
everybody else from on it.
That's another good indicator.
If Mike, Gary, and, you know, Joel Marion,
all these guys keep mailing a certain
offer on email, you know, it's doing well.
So it's a long winded way of saying
that I don't know the exact answer
to your question, but that's how
I be looking at different numbers.
Is that, does that help some Conrad?
Yeah.
Thank you for that answer.
Cause I did expect a, a more thorough
answer than, than I, that I asked.
So, no, that's good.
Just give me some other things to
think about and to take back to the
offer owner, to, you know, talk about
these different metrics as well.
So a hundred percent awesome.
By the way,
yeah, before I forget, Connor
D Braun has, some good, free,
like training videos on her.
I think it's called strategy overdrive,
but if you're not in direct response
marketers group, there, there's a bunch
of she's she's been doing affiliate.
Yeah.
She's great.
She's like the godmother.
Yeah.
She's the guy, the, the grandmother of it.
So definitely I'll put it on the chat.
Yeah.
But I think, you know, that's,
you know, she's really great
at it going into those numbers.
In fact, we also have, you know, Christina
Mckay is another good one, but you know,
I would look at D and I would talk to like
people that are great email marketers,
you know, like Ryan Saplin, Ed Scow,
Mike Gear, you know how their brand,
that like, you know, all those, I mean,
you have natural health Sherpa in here
D represents not their health Sherpa.
You have, you know, Jeff
Radge, I mean, and Mark Stefan.
And like those guys, I would
be asking them questions around
shoot email marketing cause
they're doing it at such volume.
Liss graham is another great one.
Jimmy Kim, you know, guys like that.
Awesome.
Cool.
thanks for the question, Conrad.
I appreciate it, man.
And I did put in a, I put Debra
onboard her name in there, and then
I linked to her, her group as well.
So you can check it out.
Yeah.
See more questions.
Ed Reay who we got next.
All right.
Real quick, Amber, one thing I want to say
is like, I love that, you know, everything
that you've talked about so far,
you're so big on setting expectations.
Just that's so awesome to see.
So thank you.
Yeah, of course.
It's because of when I haven't heard
before I've heard and I've been hurt, so I
think that's like, you know, that's a lie.
Got you.
All right.
Next up.
Can we do VSL with affiliates,
VSL with affiliates?
What's up.
Hi, Stef, what's up?
How you doing?
Yeah, so it was a pretty
straight forward question.
Any more context you want to add to it?
Kimmy?
No, that's it.
Okay.
And Amber, if you don't know,
can we do one of my favorites.
She's a 16, crushing it.
Has all kinds of clients.
It's like, if I, you know, I
joke about wanting to be Amber.
When I grew up, I also want to become me
do when I grow up, I'm like, Oh my God.
If I was her at 16, I would just
be like a billionaire today.
She's awesome.
So always get pumped up
whenever, every time.
Yeah.
So cool.
Do I just say real quick?
I mean, you, you just
need people to test it.
You know, like that, that's the main
thing it's like VSL or long form sales
page or webinar or whatever it is.
Like it needs to convert
point care to the end.
You know, everybody always like
talks to me, like what's the secret?
It's like the secret is
a high converting offer.
Point fear of the end.
I'm not a salmon.
I don't enjoy swimming upstream.
What I mean by that, I don't like it when
things are really super freaking hard.
Right.
For me to book as an affiliate,
you know, person, right?
Like the better the offer, the more
people are going to come to you.
Like when research first came out,
like, you know, they had test partners
because it's the four of them.
Right.
So well known.
And they have all this stuff, but then,
and once it started converting while
they had everybody coming to them.
So if it's a VSL, it's just
another entry point to an offer.
Right.
So I think the main thing
is like get traffic book.
And what if you're new to the space
or you don't have collateral, which is
like a big email list to work off of
which many people do not when they first
start, you need to do a few things.
One, you need to get really
connected into the community.
So joining a group like this, which is so
incredibly valuable and plugging yourself
in, because that's going to shortcut you
to having test partners and having people
be willing to open up their Rolodex.
Oh, gee, joining a tribe like
mine, like traffic tribe, right?
Like where you have the ability
to come in and meet people.
You need to build your network first
and then two, you need to test.
You know, and, and be smart about
where you're testing, really look
at who your test partners are.
If you have, you know, a female public
floor offer, why are you saying yes
to test traffic from a male ED offer?
Like, it just, it doesn't make any sense.
Right, right.
You really need to get like the
right kind of test partners in there.
Set the expectations.
And then also, you know, one thing
that I I'm just gonna tell you,
I just splice and I'm just going
to publicly say it right now.
I don't understand why people spend
so much money on tech, on dev, on
design, on copy, on the product itself.
And then they're not willing
to spend a little bit of extra
money prepaying for a test.
What the hell dude?
Like, why are you not doing that?
Why are you not putting
money aside for testing?
Because you think just because you have
a relationship, they should risk, you
know, their business and their revenue,
their email revenue to mail fee.
He was like, no, some people will do that
because they're kind, and some people will
do that for you based on the relationship.
Some people will use and do a few, all
day long in a small segment of their list.
And that's what they're willing
to give up, but put some.
Money behind testing, because that
is taking the risk completely off
of those, those people and putting
some of it on your shoulders.
Like when you're planning out your
new offers, set aside a little money,
and I would have that conversation
as copywriters with your, with
your, you know, the people that
you're working with is like, Hey,
like we really need to get data.
We need to get data faster on
how this thing is performing.
I mean, if you wait in line for a,
you know, if you wait in line for
calendar space, How long are we going
to be waiting for and how much data
are really going to be getting, if I
prepay for it and get the whole list,
I can split test different things.
You know, I can do a bunch of stuff,
but if I'm just waiting in line for
Q with no connection, guess what?
Bottom of the list, right?
They don't know you
bottom of the list, right?
If you're, you don't have
a track record of success.
Bottom of the list.
You know what I mean?
Like you just, if you want to get data
and you weren't good at that, get your
builder relationships and have the
conversations and set aside the testimony.
No, I don't mean ads.
I mean like buying like email traffic.
So I'm talking I'm about, I'm going to
email traffic, you know, baby booth.
I think email traffic is where it's at.
I'm not really talking about social
traffic or, you know, paid ads.
I'm talking about straight up email
traffic, like set aside some money to, you
know, do bait pay drops on email Kimmy.
Is that, is that helpful?
Yeah, super helpful.
Thank you so much.
I got a lot of good notes.
Awesome.
Kimmy, I heard that you had a,
you may have, may have landed
a pretty, pretty big client.
Is that official yet?
It is.
So we want to, I want to talk about it.
Can I talk about it?
Should I not talk about it?
I don't know.
He told me he was messaging me.
He's like, I went with Kimmy dude.
And I was like, alright,
I'm gonna tell it.
You don't have to tell him if he gets mad.
He's mad at me.
Okay.
I won't blame you.
J, like  JD bolt from credit secrets
was trying to hire a copywriter
who you could like put on retainer
and like mentor and all that.
And like, all of these people
like apply to me seriously.
He only opened it to copy, started our
members full in light, but out of that, a
bunch of members of Copic starter applied.
But out of all his people, he chose can
we do like a 50 million plus company.
And he was like, that girl was bad ass.
Like she did this, like,
her samples were crazy.
She was doing this.
She was doing that.
He was just so impressed with Kimmy.
So, He messaged me all excited
about it and everything.
And, so we congratulations on that.
It's a super exciting opportunity.
Amazing so much stuff.
And like all of this would not be possible
without like the amazing communities.
He felt like I'm feeling
super grateful right now.
Like I'm like out of the room,
like I'm literally shaking.
Like this is incredible.
Thank you so much.
Yeah, no, that's awesome.
And you deserve it though.
You're, you're so talented and smart and
just so excited for you and, and to see
things continue to go awesomely for you.
So, so great work, so cool.
That is so cool.
Congratulations.
Thank you so much, Amber.
That's a huge compliment.
That's huge.
Awesome.
Cool.
Thank you, Kimmy.
Ed, let's keep going.
Let's keep rocking.
She already is this
Boy.
I can't even imagine what, when
she's as old as me, you know,
she's an ancient 20 like Ed Reay.
All right.
So question here for Gregory.
Gregory asked for Amber.
Best strategies for getting
affiliates to promote your offer.
Hi, it goes a little bit similar
to what you just said, right.
But, well, Greg, let's go ahead and
you'll probably will contact Greg.
Yeah.
Well, I'm relatively new to all this.
I've worked with a company and they're
about to launch an offer in the back
pain space, but we don't know anything
about getting affiliates onboard.
Gotcha.
Yes.
So definitely.
I would encourage anybody who doesn't
know much about affiliates and to
not just outsource your knowledge.
What I mean by that is don't just hire an
affiliate manager because you don't know
how to run them or, or the expectations
are what affiliates care about.
So, you don't have to, you know, join
my thing, but I have traffic tribe.
It will teach you all the basics and it
will plug you directly into my network.
There's 147 affiliate managers
or offer owners in that, in that
primarily health, wealth, financial PD.
We do have some education in there too.
It's growing every single month.
So I'd say plug yourself into an
existing network like mine, or plug
yourself into Stefan's group because.
This group is for people that
can book for you to do it.
You still learn the foundations.
Yeah.
I mean, dude, it's it's
$397 a month for mine.
When you have a second
where you link travel.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
I'll, I'll drop it in here, but like,
you know, join my traffic tribe.
Put your affiliate
manager, my traffic tribe.
There's so many experiences there's in
there because the most important thing is
to be seeing each other every single day.
You know, month with regularity
and setting up deals.
So educate yourself as an owner.
You really need to know what's going on.
And you also want, I
mean, educate yourself.
I don't mean that just like the, the
technical part of it, which is, you
know, What happens, you know, or, or
how much CPA that you can give, right?
What the conversion rate is making
your offer better and all that stuff,
but plugging into a network of people
that are also different offer owners,
do you need to be peers with them?
That's what you are.
Right.
So really kind of networking
and understanding like them
and where they're going.
And like, you know, what offers they have.
That's a big one, because if you
understand what offers they have, and
you understand how to play with your
own offers with them, and if it's a
match or not, or if it's more of like
a referral thing, So I would just say,
you know, really educate yourself and
don't just outsource your knowledge.
It's one of the biggest issues
that I see with most business
owners are like too busy.
I'm the creative, I'm the brains.
I'm the person I've just wanna,
I just want to make friends.
It's all I want to do.
I just want to make
products and you know what?
Fuck the rest of everybody else do it.
And then what I see is massive
toner turnover all the time.
They're filling managers because
they don't know how to run them.
They don't know how to motivate them.
They don't know how to keep
them, you know, they they're just
like a constant revolving door.
And then, you know, years later
they come back and be like, man, if
I had just known these few things.
Like it would have been different for me.
And I could have had a great, you know,
a recurring revenue source, which I like
to call it boomerang money, but right.
Like boomerang, mind to
me is affiliate money.
Cause it's like, you know,
I, I take my, my list.
So my offer, I sent it to you,
you promote it, you make money.
I do the same thing.
Then I'd catch your boomerang.
And you're just like doing this
over and over and over again with
your partners and it can be done.
But as the owner, you need to know all
those people because your affiliate
manager's likely going to change.
They're going to be bouncing
around from place to place.
And that's not a bad thing because every
time they bounce from place to place yeah.
You people, and they just keep
adding it to their network.
But like, you're really understanding
here, like what, what are you doing?
And what are the potentials here and
how do you navigate that gate test trap?
You don't get money for a test budget.
I heard, I saw someone asks how
much they set aside for a test
budget, as much as you can afford.
Yeah.
As much as you can afford.
Right.
I would say a minimum put aside $2,000
minimum for some testing, I would like
to see 10,000, because then you can
get lists like, you know, Mike Geary's
and you know, Ryan saplings and these
other guys who really give you volume.
Cause that's what you're
really looking for.
You know, I see so many
offers, just dead in the water.
They're just sitting there because
they can't get anybody to promote them.
And their big thing is like, well,
I paid all this money to be in a
network and no one's promoting me.
It's like, yeah.
But you also don't know how to ask.
Like you don't know how to ask.
You don't know how to follow up,
you know, have anyone following up.
Yeah.
You're all salty sitting there upset
with me because you're in my cohort.
Like, you know, I see it, the same
thing in every group that we're in.
We see people pay 25 grand and being,
you know, Joe Polish's genius, networker.
40 view war room.
And they expect just because they paid
and they showed up that money is going to
fall and slap them all over their face.
No, it's the same thing.
You have to do the followup
and you have to be persistent
and you have to be patient.
You have to put in the work and
you have to set aside the money
you have to pay to play sometimes.
And that's just how it is you
pay to get inside the door.
The rest is up to you.
Right.
And I really think that that's something
that I see all the time in these
businesses is people are just like,
well, now that I'm here, everyone do me
a favor and mail for me and promote me.
No, no, no, no, no.
You still have to learn what you're doing.
You still have to, you know, do all the,
the additional steps to make it work.
Just like in copy.
Right.
Just because you're in affiliate
accelerator doesn't mean that you're
going to like magically thought
produce, an award winning VSL.
Right.
You're just, you're not,
you have to do the work.
If you do the research to do the
writing, you have to, you know, have
people review it, all that stuff.
Yeah.
That's great, Greg, is that help?
Oh my God.
That's so helpful.
I mean, I didn't even know that
existed, so and so, yeah, I,
we, yeah, very, very helpful.
it's expanding my vision of business.
Exponentially in the last hour and a half.
Amazing.
Thank you so much.
Of course.
My pleasure, my pleasure.
And honestly, the, I love to
help, like, you know, I really do
like, this is, this is my passion
is helping people get better.
And, you know, you guys
helped me get better.
And, you know, I wanted during COVID,
this is a switch that we may, and when
I talked about retiring, my agents, see,
like we have retired it, meaning that you
can't hire us anymore to be your affiliate
team, unless we're a partner of yours.
Unless actually we're an
equity partner with you.
Like we are with Brad Howard.
Our team is no longer available for hire.
We finished it with this
last launch with a Gora why?
Well, because I'm making a lot
more money running my own offers.
And I want to build my own business, my
own email list, my own revenue, that way.
However, I'm not going to walk away
from my passion, which is elevating
this space as much as possible.
Having the tough conversations,
getting better as a group.
Like I love our affiliate
manager community.
Like we all have big hearts, we really
care, but a lot of us still need
more training, you know, just like
in coffee accelerator, you guys are
getting trained every day by the best.
Like in order for affiliate manager to
get better, they need to have training.
They need to have support, right.
Which is why we built this.
So we're going to keep
growing the consulting and
training side of our business.
And I'm never going to retire that
because I'm never gonna get tired
of helping and serving and getting
excited about people winning.
So for the first time ever, you know, you
can work with me and my team for three
years, $197 a month in the past was a
minimum of $6,000 up to $25,000 a month.
Yeah know, people pay it because we do
really good work and we bring a lot of
money, but like, you know, the, the.
The point of me being
your sales team for year.
My team being yourselves team for
you is over now because client
work is, can be very difficult.
And once I have, you know, once I make it
enough money over here, you know, with our
own offers, now I can teach and I can just
come from that space of, of, of having
that distance and really not needing them.
I don't need the money anymore.
I don't need the client work anymore.
So this is why you can see me
getting just really honest and
open about what's really going on.
And being able to serve in a different
way, but, you know, so it's, it's just
something that I hope that everyone
kind of thinks about is like, you know,
don't outsource your knowledge, right?
Don't stop learning because if
you're a copywriter, you need
to keep learning about copy.
If you're a business owner, you
need to keep learning about the
different parts of your, of your
business and not just farm it out.
You know, in 2018, I
paid $122,000 to vendors.
Not only did it, did I
make no money from that?
Cause I kept, kept trying to
outsource my boys and kept trying to
outsource all these different things.
Not only did I not make money from
that, it cost me so much money and time.
Because I had to learn, guess what?
I still need to learn
these parts of my business.
I can't outsource it.
I need to know enough to lead.
And that's the same thing with
things like traffic tribe and, you
know, continuing to invest into
your team to get better, right.
Don't just like hire these
affiliate managers and not
invest anymore in the success.
And don't just outsource your
knowledge, meaning like you
don't know anything about it.
And so you're always going to be
at the whim of what everybody else
tells you about affiliate marketing.
Yeah, that's awesome.
God, I can totally see why Stefan
and Amber are on this call together.
You both have that vibe of totally giving
and you certainly helped me personally.
Thank you.
Awesome.
My pleasure.
That's it's the greatest blessing for me.
That's amazing.
and I know we've got a few minutes left
and I know you're going to be kind of in a
minute, but you want to get us set up with
one more question before you bounced that.
And then maybe after that, we'll
do a couple rapid fire ones.
I've got a great question here from mr.
John  John, asks if I'm already writing
email copy for a retainer client,
and I see a hot offer in the market.
I think their list would like,
are they going to be open to me
creating custom affiliate swipes?
To mail for that offer
on a performance basis.
John what's up, buddy?
Let me call John unawares.
He's muted the fire.
I see the flame.
He says Jim is still out here.
Alright.
We can wrap it, answer that one then.
That's cool.
So, let me look at it again here.
I mean, I think the answers
that they'd be open to it.
I mean, it depends on the client, right?
I mean, just really, but there's no harm
in bringing it to them and being like,
Hey, you know, like I see this offer.
I think you're listed with like,
it can, I, you know, I can help
you make some money and whatever,
like maybe I'm coming on it.
Like, I, I guess it just depends on the
offer owner and what their priority is.
That's what I would say.
I'm not sure if you agree, Amber,
if you have anything to add to
that, No, you're the boss there.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Cool.
No, but I will say just kidding.
I do this course.
Yeah.
Yeah.
always customize your site.
You know what I mean?
Like always, you know, I think it's lazy.
Like, of course you want to like model off
of the thing that's performing the best.
So first and foremost, you want to
ask people, you know, what email swipe
copy is converting the bus, of course.
And, but then model it and kind of
change into your voice because, it's
going to have, you know, obviously just
much better resolved in general and
especially around launches or contests.
Like, you know, it doesn't make any sense
for everybody to grab the same email,
swipe, copy, load it in their systems.
And everyone promoted all at once
in a very short amount of time.
I think that's one of the reasons
why we ruined our deliverability.
We didn't have so many issues with it.
So one of them, yeah.
Right.
So definitely customize the copy.
I don't know about, you know, someone
came to me and were like, Hey, I
noticed that your, you know, your
keto resource swipes are fatigued.
Like, you know, I can do, like, here's
a sample that I just wrote for you.
I'd be a lot better than we get these
people all the time, hitting us up.
Hey, like, you know, I can write for, you
know, swipe for you for, you know, $4,000.
And I'm like, okay.
Like, you know, I'd rather have like,
I'd rather have you show me like
something that you, you can do for
me and then say, Hey, if you want
this, you know, here's how much it is.
I'd be like, okay, that's
a little bit different.
Right?
Like that would be better for us just
as someone on the other side of it.
Yeah.
No.
That's awesome.
That makes perfect sense.
I know is going to take off, we'll
take maybe five minutes and do some
rapid answers and stuff like that.
That works.
Nope.
You just honestly told ed, let him
say goodbye, but he just disappeared.
Bye bye.
But just like that.
Oh, I'm going to pick a couple,
just so you know, Tim asks a quick
one, Tim, Tim, no one said, how
do you balance don't reinvent the
wheel, stand out and be different.
I talked about this
from a copy perspective.
So I'll tackle that one real quick.
I think that when I say don't reinvent
the wheel, well, it means like
there's a structure that's like, you
know, common to all these successful
offers or all this successful copy.
And it's like, if you look at a bunch
of like ClickBank weight loss supplement
offers, and they're all doing the same
thing, Then like you should follow that
same structure, you know, how you're
different is you find a more unique story
or you find, you know, a different aspect.
And I think you can still have
differentiators in there, like with, you
know, how supplements, and like my first.
Someone company being a Christian,
like someone, I basically found a way
to like tie in these ingredients, like
the Bible and biblical ingredients.
So it's like, I was targeting the same
thing as in all of these other people
were, you know, already, like there's
plenty of blood sugar supplements
out there, but I'm like, well, why
aren't we doing a biblical twist?
Like cinnamon's all over the Bible.
Cinnamon's amazing at helping to
like, manage all the blood sugar.
Like let's bring those two together,
like frankincense and myrrh.
Both have all these incredible health.
Benefits and like, why don't we just
so, you know, within the copy was not
like a guy created a new type of copy
that nobody had ever seen before.
It was like a standard VSL, but my story
was different and I think that's the
biggest way to, kind of succeed there.
So, yeah.
I'm gonna go ahead just to
put a, that one is answered.
And then done.
There you go.
Okay.
Girly and said, Stephan,
you do a lot a lot.
How do you even remember every
little thing that goes on?
Have you ever forgotten
a project is going on?
This question goes out to
both Amber and ed as well.
Ed is gone.
but Amber, have you ever forgotten
that a project is going on?
not a project.
I don't forget that a
project was going on.
I have high anxiety, so I don't
ever forget about a project.
but I will say that we've taken on too
much, you know, as a company, it's one
of the reasons why, you know, we've
just been chopping and downsizing.
you know, and I felt the need
to do that for a long time.
And then I lost someone really
close to me last year to suicide.
And it just like changed my
perspective on everything.
And I.
You know, taking on so much.
And what I realized is, You know,
saying no is such a powerful tool.
If it's not zoning hell yes.
For me.
And I don't really feel
excited about the project.
I'm just doing it for money.
Like that's how I started doing stuff
and that's okay if you're in that
spot, like yeah, you need to do that.
You have to, there's a
short getting that, right.
It's great to like, get an experience,
but like when you have a ton of stuff
going on, main thing is, you know,
getting really honest yourself about
what you can do and what you can do.
Well, Right.
And, and sorting that out and time
managing it, however works for
you, but also, you know, giving
yourself some grace and space,
you can always renegotiate stuff.
That's one thing that I don't hear, a lot
of people talking about is the ability
to renegotiate what you've agreed to.
I think the instinct is when you say yes
to something, you have to keep it to that.
Exactly.
Jack thing, like exact frame,
and that's not necessarily true.
People are much more open.
And I'm saying this because
I'm doing with experience.
If you are much more open to, to
hearing, Hey, you know what I want?
I said yes to this project, you know,
I, this, my situation was different.
Here's the new thing.
And here's the, I expect to like, have
it done and you know, is that like,
okay, if it's not like, you know, what
else can we do to make you whole just
kind of renegotiating your agreements,
is also something that you can do.
And I don't recommend it all the time.
Because you do it enough
times to use an excuse.
You're going to break a ton of trust and
ruin and wreck your application, which
is gonna take a very long time to do.
But you know, this is something that
you can do with honesty and clarity.
And I'll tell you, like taking on
too much is not great if you're
not good at time management.
And if you're not established,
you can take on more stuff
when you're more established.
Yeah, really like Stefan, like,
I mean, yeah, you have ownership
in all these different companies,
but you are established, you have
been the CEO of multiple companies.
You, you have a rhythm and a flow you're
in and it's, and it's also like the idea
of, of balance kind of bullshit, right?
Because you're not spending
in a 24 hour period.
4.5 hours on copy accelerator, 2.2
hours with Cody you're you're balancing
and all out in like a harmonious way.
Right.
So you're like right now,
copy accelerators next week.
I bet a big bulk of your efforts right
now this week are on copy accelerator.
Right?
Like, and just knowing how to
kind of navigate that flow.
Right.
And your personal life too.
So that's a long way of saying,
you know, just kind of, kind of
looking at, you know, like, do
you need to take on that much?
Yeah.
I mean, go ahead.
Sorry, go ahead.
I was going to say, and I think,
you know, Justin had talked about
this a little bit yesterday.
We did a kind of like an open call
and, yeah, I still struggle with that.
Sometimes they're looking at me
like, have I taken on too much?
Are there certain things
that I need to pull back on?
Or sometimes there's things where
even I have a lot going on, I will
kind of neglect certain things and,
but it's kind of intentional, right?
It's not like I'm not being haphazard.
I'm like, this is just not
that important right now.
So I'd love to work on
this too, but I can't.
So I was like, I'll come back to that
when I have the time, you know, going
back to like, yeah, well, if the copy
accelerator event next week and all kinds
of stuff going on, we just got like this.
Really famous comedian for the VIP dinner
for a full copy accelerator members.
And like they were doing this other
things and all this stuff going on.
Right.
And, and I'm, I'm scram.
Yeah.
We're working on all kinds of, how do
we make this, the best event, you know,
virtual event that's ever been put on.
And so even things like being interactive
in Facebook groups, I'd like to be
more interactive, with people tagging
me and Justin and Ian talk Copy.
I'm trying to read the post, but it's
like, I just don't have the time to go
in and comment and engage right now.
And, and I'm okay if that, And then
the other thing I do now at this stage
of my life, if her career was like,
I'm trying to look at things as you
know, where I can be like the investor.
Right.
So, like for example, I do want to create
a whole company around freelancing.
but I'm like I have I mapped out the
whole kind of architecture for that.
And I shared it with like peak, key
people in my team, but I was like, I
want, I want to be clear about this.
Like, I.
Can't write the copy for it.
I can't make a lot of
the decisions for it.
I'm like, here's like the game plan.
We need to get the right people in place.
And like, I'm wanting to treat
this, like I am the investor in
this company and not like the CEO.
And so as you go through
time, you can kind of.
Yo differentiate those things.
And I have the money and the capital to
be able to do is that because of like, you
know, gains where I've gotten, I wasn't
able to do that earlier in my career.
So that then enables me to do more things
because I can look at it as the investor,
instead of as a CEO, when you're trying
to be like the CEO of five companies
or 10 companies like that never works.
I mean, you know, there's like Elon
Musk kind of does it, I guess, you
know, a little bit and like, but there's
very few people who can pull that off.
So I think focus is, is a
powerful thing early on.
And then.
yeah, over time you can kind of
branch out a little bit more.
So, yeah.
All right.
Well, Hey, I wish we could ask
some more questions, but we cannot
because we're up to, 11:33, my time.
Amber, thank you so much for taking
the time to come on and join.
It was so good.
My pleasure too.
Thank you so much for having me is Epic.
as always anything to do
with you and thank you for,
asking me to speak next week.
I, I take it as a tremendous
honor, cause that's what it is.
And.
And I was joking about, you, my email
this morning saying that you have a
cult happening with copy accelerator.
but you know, all jokes aside, you know,
it is an honor to be here inside of copy
accelerator for anybody who is a member.
and it's an honor to present.
it's such high quality group of
super beautiful, super smart,
super kind, hardworking people,
the best brightest in this space.
So I appreciate you having me from
the group today and just really
excited to present next week.
Awesome.
Yeah, no, I'm so excited and,
and check out a traffic tribe.
I'll put that in the YouTube
description and show notes and then
send the Facebook live of this.
I know some people asked how
they get on your email list.
Amber, I don't know if that's from
your website as well or what the, yeah.
I can shoot it over to
you for the show notes.
They wanna get it.
That sounds good.
Yeah, you should do that for sure.
and yeah, for everyone, we'll
have a lot of people on this call.
We'll be at the event next week.
So looking forward to seeing everybody
and, Yeah, Amber, thank you so much.
Well, and I'm gonna hit you up about
this, this dinner of tutorial, textiles,
text group, text, or something.
Maybe it's the best way to do it.
I love that.
Alright, awesome.
Thank you, Amber.
Thank you, bye.
I guess.
