- Devin Kenny is a Chicago-born artist.
Interdisciplinary artist, writer, musician
and independent curator.
Formerly of New York City,
currently living and working
in Houston, Texas as a
resident in the Core program.
Kenny's work uses any
means possible to explore
and complicate ideas on
contemporary culture.
His work exists as websites,
vlogs, video posts,
and audio files that employ the trope
of social media-driven youth culture
to reach a base audience
and allow the work
to convey broad ideas, while subversively
inserting political and
philosophical theory.
Kenny uses the internet as
a source material and venue
to present his work with an ironic stance
that separates what he
makes from pop culture,
the pop culture that it mimics.
Consuming and producing
cultural production
to reveal it anew to his audience,
his work looks at the way
inequality and privilege,
inclusivity and exclusivity
impact our world view
and how that perspective
impacts the reading
of visual culture, including art.
Kenny became engaged with art
and other works of culture
via mediation and the
special type of vortex.
Is it mediation or meditation?
- [Devin] The same thing.
- Okay. (laughs)
And the special kind of
vortex type of research
facilitated online.
His work is also informed
by modernist, post-modern,
and contemporary discourses.
Devin makes his audio
work under the alter ego,
Devin Kkenny, spelled K-K-E-N-Y.
- Kkeny.
- Kkeny.
Creating music that combines
sounds from rap, hip-hop,
electronica and dance genres with lyrics
that refer to art making and art history.
Kenny has continued his practice
by working closely with the
Bruce High Quality Foundation
and University, Skowhegan School
of Painting and Sculpture,
SOMA Mexico, and through his performances
at various art and music
venues in New York, Chicago,
L.A., amongst others.
And actually if you guys
were here for the lecture
where Gordon Hall and
Yongjun Choi were doing
a co-performance lecture I think,
Denny recently did a performance lecture
with Gordon Hall's project, which is,
can you remember the name?
- Yeah, Center for Experimental Lectures.
Yeah, me and Jason Hirata did a thing.
- Yeah.
He received his MFA in 2013
from the New Genres Department
at UCLA and is an alum
of the Whitney Independent Study program.
Please join me in welcoming Devin Kenny.
(audience claps)
(ominous electronic music)
(vocalizing)
♪ She was simply stemming her lips ♪
♪ And making a smile (laughs) ♪
(ominous electronic music)
(vocalizing)
♪ Now, let me write about that to honor ♪
♪ This woman who helps us to survive ♪
- Two two two two.
♪ Miss Rosy, through your
destruction, I stand up ♪
♪ Fam on the block, auction ♪
♪ Sugar, rice, tobacco, cotton ♪
♪ Human labor raising stocks ♪
♪ With wet nursing, force
breeding, or raising livestock ♪
♪ And with no decrease, with no decrease ♪
♪ With no decrease ♪
♪ Fam on the block ♪
♪ Auction, sugar, rice, tobacco, cotton ♪
♪ Human labor raising stocks ♪
♪ With wet nursing, force
breeding, or raising livestock ♪
♪ And with no decrease,
runaway slave catchers ♪
♪ Became the police ♪
♪ Whips and chains, inducing
slow streams at best ♪
♪ Or past life low leaks at worst ♪
♪ But first, slave labor produced
the Wall Street and NYC E ♪
♪ And cross-country E ♪
♪ In Tulsa, 50 years
post-dementia patient ♪
♪ There's a black Wall Street E ♪
♪ Burned to the ground
'cause her folks like these ♪
♪ No chains on neck ♪
♪ Nor chains on feets ♪
♪ Screaming all lives matter ♪
♪ Well, our lives need attention ♪
♪ Because of pilgrims in the street ♪
♪ And the gunshot
ringtones that go so hard ♪
♪ And that go so damn deep ♪
♪ Breaking bad habits ♪
♪ Get really bad fucking
with methods to the madness ♪
♪ To make something out of
nothing or whatever is left ♪
♪ Cash on deck ♪
♪ Or for a check ♪
♪ Put a gun to your face and
say you're bound to respect ♪
♪ And I guess I deserve a rest ♪
♪ 'Cause of the tone of
my flesh too, right ♪
♪ I guess I deserve a
rest 'cause of the tone ♪
♪ Of my flesh too, right ♪
♪ I'm too hyped for casual chats ♪
♪ Black market raps ♪
♪ On the subject, at a premium ♪
♪ Like Louis, Aziz, and
them, but I'm no comedian ♪
♪ But some of these
things is just hilarious ♪
♪ If I don't laugh, I'll cry ♪
♪ If I reach for my comb ♪
♪ For a Toblerone ♪
♪ If I reach for my phone ♪
♪ I just might die ♪
♪ No questions asked ♪
♪ Just ears on asphalt,
concrete suit sleeves ♪
♪ Bare cheeks and sanitary grass, y'all ♪
♪ If I don't laugh, I'll cry ♪
♪ If I don't laugh, I'll cry ♪
(hip-hop beats)
♪ If I don't laugh, I'll cry ♪
♪ If I don't laugh, I'll cry ♪
♪ If I don't laugh, I'll cry ♪
♪ If I don't laugh, I'll cry ♪
♪ If I don't laugh, I'll cry ♪
♪ If I don't laugh, I'll cry ♪
♪ If I don't laugh, I'll cry ♪
(hip-hop beats)
♪ If I don't laugh, I'll cry ♪
♪ If I don't laugh, I'll cry ♪
♪ If I don't laugh ♪
♪ If I don't laugh ♪
♪ If I don't laugh, I'll cry ♪
(Devin Kenny laughs)
♪ If I don't laugh, I'll cry ♪
♪ If I don't laugh ♪
♪ If I don't laugh ♪
♪ If I don't laugh, I'll ♪
♪ If I don't laugh ♪
♪ If I don't laugh, I'll cry ♪
(hip-hop beats)
♪ If I don't laugh, I'll cry ♪
♪ If I don't laugh, I'll cry ♪
♪ If I don't laugh ♪
♪ If I don't laugh ♪
♪ If I don't laugh, I'll ♪
♪ Ain't shit funny though ♪
♪ Ain't shit funny though ♪
♪ Ain't shit funny though ♪
♪ Ain't shit funny though ♪
♪ Ain't shit funny though ♪
♪ Ain't shit funny though ♪
♪ Ain't shit funny though ♪
♪ Funny though, funny though,
funny though, funny though ♪
♪ Ain't shit funny ♪
♪ If I don't laugh, I'll cry ♪
♪ If I don't laugh, I'll cry ♪
♪ If I don't laugh, I'll cry ♪
♪ Ain't shit funny ♪
♪ Ain't shit funny,
ain't shit funny, funny ♪
♪ If I don't laugh, I'll cry ♪
(hip-hop beats)
- Last year, friend and
colleagues Hannah Black
and Parker Bright came
under fire for speaking out
against the display of
the now-infamous painting
based on a well-known
photograph of a victim
of extrajudicial mob violence.
I first became of the
piece through an image
on Rafia Santana's Instagram.
After which, I wrote this status update.
I don't want to see
depictions or interpretations
of black trauma made by
those with no proximity
to that experience.
There should not be an appetite for that,
let alone a market.
Three months ago, Carolyn
Bryant Donham admitted she lied,
resulting in the gruesomely violent death
of a 14-year old black child
named Emmett Till in 1955.
Till's mother briefly had
an open-casket funeral,
and the images that circulated
afterwards help goad
Civil Right movement of that era.
Now, some 60 years later,
the same image and tragedy
is used as inspiration for an abstract
but not non-objective
painting by Dana Schutz
shown at this year's Whitney Biennial.
A few things come to mind for me.
One, who's the audience for this painting?
Two, what action does
this work purportedly
and actually doing?
Does it inform, shock, goad connection?
Help a new audience
understand either emotionally
or intellectually the
complex set of factors
all falling under the
umbrella of white supremacy,
sexism, and anti-blackness
that led to this young person's death?
If no, what element of the
history is being tapped into
and depicted?
If not regarding the history
referenced in the image
and instead, about the
culture of photography
and its circulation in general,
why was that particular example chosen?
Three, how are the formal
decisions aiding the aims
of the creator of the work?
#rosethekeys
I mention this not because I want to prod
an open wound, but because
these are among the questions
I ask myself when making
work, and often, I too
am responding to preexisting
material or temporal culture
in the world.
As a black American, the
hypervisibility in pop culture,
albeit with a quite
limited range of depictions
and even fewer instances
of stories produced
by actual black people along
with the continual erasure
of black contributions
either as agent or as subject
is something that isn't so
much constantly on my mind
but the very air I pass
through consciously or not.
So, spaces of self-determination
are major points of interest.
- [Man] Some activists
might wonder what the point
of protesting is if it
has no impact on success.
There is, however, another
way to look at structuralism
that is invigorating
rather than paralyzing.
Assume that human action,
the form of protest
or organizational style,
has no significant impact
on whether a movement will succeed.
To recap, all that matters
is that a contesting group
exists prior to and
continues protesting during
a world historical crisis.
Let's go further and
propose that the outcome
of the revolution is not up to human will,
and therefore, inaction
when the food price index
exceeds 210 will have the
same chances of hastening
a revolutionary victory as action.
Now, what do you do to change the world?
How do you act?
A few people may choose to do nothing,
twiddle their thumbs and
just wait for the revolution
to happen.
The German philosopher
Friedrich Nietzsche, however,
once observed that a person
would rather will something
than nothing, and I suspect the majority
would still choose to act.
And if choosing a tactic
based on effectiveness
is not possible because
all forms of protest
are equally effective in a
purely structuralist world view,
the best course of action
would be to choose the tactics
with superior secondary benefits.
If protest can't haste a
revolution, activists are free
to protest in ways that bring
happiness or vibrant community
or beautiful art.
What do you do when
organizing a global march,
painting an urban mural,
or feeding hungry people
during a world crisis have equal chances
of sparking social change?
You choose the action that speaks to you,
the action most authentic
to becoming yourself.
(electronic beats)
This possibility gestures
towards how new tactics come
into being spontaneously,
and it helps us understand
anomalous protest tactics, such
as the ghost dance of 1890,
a prophetic circle dancing ritual
performed by indigenous
people in North America
that originated in a
bit to hasten the return
of their sovereignty.
The ghost dance was explicitly understood
by its participants as a ritual
with political consequences.
The dance was effective enough
to warrant being violently
suppressed by the U.S. government.
A rational voluntarist would
be hard pressed to explain
why dancing in a circle
far away from cities
would be a threat to government.
(electronic beats)
- "The End of Protest" by Michael Wyatt.
(electronic beats)
(bass beats)
♪ Take me to the manager ♪
♪ Take me to the church ♪
♪ Take me to the back ♪
♪ Put you in the dirt ♪
♪ Show you what it's worth ♪
♪ What is it all worth ♪
♪ Puttin' in the work ♪
♪ Puttin' in the work ♪
♪ Take me to the manager ♪
♪ Take me to the church ♪
♪ Take me to the back ♪
♪ Put you in the dirt ♪
♪ Show you what it's worth ♪
♪ What is it all worth ♪
♪ Puttin' in the work ♪
♪ Puttin' in the work ♪
♪ It'll all be over soon ♪
(man vocalizes)
(man vocalizes)
(man vocalizes)
- Early on in my study
of art, I was fascinated
by the possibility of reaching
several audiences at once
through employing various visual codes
from seemingly despared sources.
Perhaps an analog to the
kind of code switching
I felt I had to use to survive.
I did graffiti and street
art that drew parallels,
sometimes intentionally, sometimes not,
between early and post-war avant gardes
and the happen-stance
sightings in metropolises
like Chicago and New York.
In 2006, I started working
on performances and music
under the name Devin Kkeny.
The music was responding
to my love of hip-hop
and my being thrust into
an art education system
with some geographic proximity
to iconic hip-hop sites
like the Palladium, which
was soon to be an NYU dorm
and other hip-hop clubs on
14th Street, made famous
in decades prior while
also being a world away.
I crudely worked to connect
three sites and temporalities.
The loft scene of early
1970s downtown Manhattan,
the hip-hop parties and
scenes of the south Bronx
in the early 70s, and
where I was coming from,
the southside of Chicago,
Hyde Park/Kinwood area
in the 90s and early 2000s.
I would do this by having
songs made on the fly
in a neo-Dodist fashion,
rapping backwards,
entirely off the top
sets, slide beat-making,
and other experiential modes.
Devin Kkeny, the name,
was based on three parts.
The way that a name is often misspelled
before you become famous.
I saw a skate video where Eric Koston
was spelled K-O-S-T-E-N.
Andy Warhol's name is a typo,
and there weren't many rappers
at the time using their own name.
KanYe West was the only one on the charts
with Mike Jones, Will
Smith, and Eric Sermon
having come before.
I'd only seen rare intersections
of hip-hop and fine art,
mostly relegated to the 80s
no-wave and East Village scenes
with Baskia, Rem LZ, Michael
Holman, Jamie Holser,
Rock Steady Crew, with Lady Pink, Lee, A1,
and various other graffiti writers.
Participation in sub-culture
is a way of collapsing
the question of who am
I and what am I in a way
that seemed very helpful
to me as a young person
coming into their own as
an adult, one who could
and should be able to
control their own destiny
and impact the world
around them, individually
and collectively.
- [Narrator] Graffiti writing
in New York is a vocation.
It's traditions are handed down
from one youthful generation
to the next.
To some, it's art.
To most people, however, it
is a plague that never ends.
A symbol that we've lost control.
- Yeah, that's the first,
that's about the third
scheme piece I did this year,
and that's the tick-tock I did in Gunhill.
- What'd you do last night?
- We did whole cars.
It was me, Dez, and me, three, right?
And the first car had small letters.
It said all you see is and
then, you know, big big
block silver letters that said
crime in the city, right??
We just took up the whole,
yeah yeah, it was the whole car
and shit that it a scroll-like.
You know one of them scrolls?
Then on the next car, it was a scheme,
and it had, you know, a cop character.
You know, a police nigga
with a stick and a bat.
He was running.
- [Man] What side you put it on?
- Society should down in the
subway and lock 'em all up
because they don't have
any business down there.
It is dangerous down there.
People that work down there 25
and 30 years have accidents,
but his contention is
that he's immortal I guess
like most 17-year olds
are, immortals, right?
- It was a matter of
getting a tag on each line
and each division.
It's called going all-city.
People see your tags in Queens,
Uptown, Downtown, all over.
(woman laughs)
- I can only, really, I can
only laugh to keep from crying
because what happens is that
he really, I don't really think
he knows how silly that sounds.
He's going all-city.
I mean, to what end?
And when I ask him, he says to me,
"Well, just so people see
it, and they know who I am."
Nobody knows who he
is, and so they see it.
- Nah, it's not a matter
of so they know who I am.
- So, they see, and then,
after they see it so what?
- It's a matter of bombing,
knowing that I can do it,
you know.
Every time I get in a train,
almost every day I see my name,
I say, "Yeah, you know it.
"I was there, I bombed it."
It's a matter, it's for me.
It's not for nobody else to see.
I don't care, I don't care
about nobody else seeing it
or the fact if they can read it or not.
It's for me and other graffiti
writers that we can read it.
All these other people who
don't write, they're excluded.
I don't care about them.
They don't matter to me.
It's for us.
(train screeching)
- Ain't writin' on the train.
I said, "What's this
stuff here, you know?"
Niggas doin' they names, big.
Said, "Let me do one at least," you know
'cause I was down with art already.
And I did me a piece,
just for people in general
to get to know who I am.
- I was raised on the Upper
East side of Manhattan.
I went to a sort of strict prep
school in the Bronx, right,
Riverdale Country School.
In attending that school,
we've drenched the city
with our names, right?
We're trying our damnedest.
- The Cat ruined the twos and fives.
The twos and fives used
to go to the two yard.
It would be like a masterpiece
art gallery of burners
from all these dudes from
the Bronx and Brooklyn
with def wild styles.
Now, you go to the two
yard, it's all destroyed.
This guy named Cat with
his Lucille Ball hairdo.
- Cat, I don't know some
big black boy, I don't know.
(crowd laughs)
I don't know, I don't wanna know him.
Yeah, that's why he's doin'
it, tryin' to get attention
and revenge 'cause people
go over his throw up.
You know, people do burners.
You see a throw up, you gonna go over it.
Who thinks Cat's throw ups
are worse being on a train?
(men chattering)
- [Man] What you write (mumbles)?
- I write mare, man.
Mare.
- [Man] Mare?
- [Man] Yeah.
- [Man] M-E-A-R?
- M-A-R-E.
- [Man] M-A-R-E?
- Yeah.
- [Man] Mare.
- Mare.
(crowd laughs)
Mare, mar is M-A-R, but nah, seriously.
You know, you gotta kill
him dude's who doin' that.
- I would later create
a long-running Tumblr
and series of mix tapes
called "Studio Workout",
which compared the masculine,
which attempted to compare
the hyper-masculine rapper
figure with a heroic
male painter trope.
Largely, trying to figure
out why every time I went
to a fine arts studio
why did non-black people
would be playing clips
or drill or trap music.
This was 2010, 2011.
And these photographs, upcoming,
are by Patricia Udico Casteneda.
Trying in that like prison of luxury zone,
you know what I'm saying?
(hip-hop beats)
♪ "Studio Workout Volume 2" ♪
♪ Hour box music ♪
♪ Let go ♪
♪ Haters on the wall get a red dot ♪
♪ Paintings on the wall get a red dot ♪
♪ Haters on the wall get a red dot ♪
♪ Gallerinas get a head shot ♪
♪ Haters on the wall get a red dot ♪
♪ Paintings on the wall get a red dot ♪
♪ Paintings on the wall get a red dot ♪
♪ Gallerinas on the
floor get a head shot ♪
♪ Draw a conclusion like the
lotto or (vocalizing) divas ♪
♪ Clamor they hate me that wild diva ♪
♪ 'Cause I refrain from lame
name cocaine wishes, wow ♪
♪ Right between David Hemings ♪
♪ And Chris Brown hitting licks on canal ♪
♪ Wow, right between David
Foster Wallace and Christopher ♪
- So, yeah, any video art fans?
You probably recognize this
electronic arts intermix aesthetic.
Yeah, black art forms of
all kinds are crucial.
It seems the category of
human since the Renaissance
is defined with black as its counter term.
There's a deep melancholy
I gain at the possibility
that the project of humanism
was built synchronically
upon the attempted enslavement,
cultural destruction,
displacement, and death of
Africans and the attempted
extermination, absorption,
and displacement
of the indigenous peoples of
the Americas and the Caribbean.
If art is a shorthand for self-expression
amongst other things, then,
categorically, it would not
be available to those without a self,
those sub-humans deemed suitable
to be dominated or killed.
So, maybe I felt myself a
rebel by entering such a field.
- [Man] We got so that we
wouldn't plague cliches.
You know, that was over.
- But for the most part,
jazz has over the years
what avoided the mainstream
of American music?
- I don't like that word jazz.
- You don't?
What would you call it?
- I think social music.
- Tonight, I want to explore the idea
that resistance to and
persistence despite social death
is one of the drives of
black cultural production,
which encourages the use
of network technologies
and this is seen in my own art.
Social alienation and worker
itemization that impacts
other subjectivities is a
derivative less totalizing version
of what the slave experienced.
Some say this is why Marx's
position, the proletariat,
as the prime revolutionary
agent, not the slave.
A slave is figure removed
from the network of kinship
and its protections, but
brought into the possession
not family despite the given surnames
or less-than-affectionate
epithets of boy and gal
of the slave owner.
Slavery is a social
relation, not just an event.
Property could be
protected, bought or sold,
but could not self-determine.
This is what Orlando
Patterson terms social death.
To what extent does that
legacy affect the present
in terms of psychic impact and otherwise?
Figures like Michelle
Alexander have contextualized
extensive research showing that the prison
industrial complex
recuperates many elements
of the Antebellum U.S. in the present.
Looking at the 13th amendment,
the one that ostensibly
ended child slavery
here, one finds a clause
that exempts bondage for all
persons except prisoners.
Considering many of
those sold into slavery,
either personally or ancestrally,
were prisoners of war
in Western and Central
Africa, ironic does not
at all describe the tenor of cruelty.
♪ That peculiar institution
was a humble brag ♪
- Early on in street skateboarding
and hip-hop graffiti,
I found something that
would be indispensable
to my later art practice,
a way of noticing.
One that applies to giving
attention to aspects
of the environment that
are supposed to be ignored,
taken for granted, or looked down upon.
(upbeat music)
(upbeat music)
(upbeat music)
Early on in street skateboarding
and in hip-hop graffiti
as well (mumbles) street
art and street skateboarding
also gave me an outlet for
my burgeoning questioning of
and resistance to authority.
How convenient!
I should also mention that the two
aforementioned subcultures
have their own issues
with misogyny, transphobia,
and homophobia,
and toxic masculinity, as well as racism,
particularly when we
consider the relative ease
that white graffiti writers
experience compared to
their always
already-criminal-before-committing-a-crime
black and brown counterparts.
(moans)
But the reason I focus on
them here, the prime catalyst
within them was the idea
of a person being able
to make something of
the world around them,
individually, directly, and creatively.
A little while later, I
began reflecting on the fact
that my first forays
into these subcultures
was through the internet,
primarily Web 1.0 message boards,
P2P file sharing services like
Kazaa and Napster, Limewire,
etc., and being the first
generation of heavy Facebook users
ditto Twitter, etc.
For those that can't see,
this is a hard drive,
which has an archive of all of Geocities.
When it was originally
shown, it also had a
like a rapid copying
apparatus so you can plug in
maybe like four different
USBs and copy it yourself.
The shift sparked by Web
2.0 was youth subcultures
built on platforms that are
or seek to be corporate-owned,
monetized, and controlled.
Cultural rebellion coopted
earlier than ever and willingly,
and yet, still, the psychic
space I think is one
that's rich with possibilities.
How does the surface web
and more specifically
the social internet change
the way we see ourselves
and as a result, interact with
and even bond with others?
As I reflected on the web's shift
from an alternative
platform to the dominant one
and mass culture changing
as a results as I had seen
previously with skateboarding
and hip-hop in the late 90s,
I had first recoiled and sought
to look at the transition,
excuse me, and then, focused
on the aspects not covered
by mass media.
Those marginal voices
creating significant changes
in the world around them,
collectively in a mediated manner,
and those being affected
by the seat change
while not being acknowledged.
Now, some of that work was
territorial as in this is
an exhibition called "Expansion Foam",
which is a space called
67 on the Lower East side.
So, that's Anama Correa and Aria Dean.
These objects are Anama Correa's as well.
Aria Dean and Alex Faloso.
Some flyers for the event.
So, that was a show
partially made in the wake
of the explosion of alt lit
and noticing that most of those
getting attention were white males.
Though they were a minority so
this instance was an attempt
to refocus on the artists who
my experience were actually
the biggest contributors, most
of whom were women, trans,
and non-binary artists and writers,
primarily people of color.
There was also a book made
with Temporary Agency,
shown here, and concert and
cabaret show at C'mon Everybody
as part of the multiplatform exhibition,
which included Giavanna Olmos, Cryptolect,
Greem Jellyfish, Kenya
Johnson, Dorthy Howard,
Anama Correa, Nandi Load,
Jojo Lee, Aria Dean,
Alex Faloso, Ivy Holdemon,
Lea Satira, Shireen Ahmed,
Morgan Green, and Amy Koreama.
This exploration also continued
in an online exhibition
that is done through the
New Museum in Rhizome
called Real Live Online,
which I co-curated
with Luca Pinero, and in my
art practice, this exploration
took the shape of sculptural objects,
books, and video, as well as
technological performance.
So, this is at the (mumbles) Theater.
I don't know if y'all
can see that, but yeah.
See, like a thing using the marquee.
I'm gonna be a deal
breaker next Halloween.
The new party has 200
hosts, three performers,
and an audience of 203.
The revolution will not be
televised, not be televised,
not be televised, but the
audience will be recorded.
True love is way more
powerful than conceptual art.
Twerkin' is shorthand
for gesamtkunstwerkin'.
Tyler Perry, The Creator.
How lazy guys get ripped.
Social Madea's Family Ruinin'.
Yeah.
And also in an album
entitled "Alone We Play",
which was funded by KickStarter,
released on BandCamp
with these kind of acura-esque
Tylenol, USB drives.
Like that, that's how
the record was put out,
and also, it was also put out on New Hive,
which was still versioning at the time.
Here, a couple quick tracks from it.
This is called "Checklist".
(hip-hop beats)
♪ Crashing wavy ♪
♪ I got everything I need ♪
♪ Protection, charger, keys,
phone (vocalizing) and ID ♪
♪ I got everything I need ♪
♪ Protection, charger, keys,
phone (vocalizing) and ID ♪
♪ I do whatever it is that I please ♪
♪ As long as I can tell
you I do what I please ♪
♪ Over the wet works, yes sirs and madam ♪
♪ I'm from (vocalizing) like an expert ♪
♪ And itemized for the feed ♪
♪ Stay hungry ♪
♪ My predecessors,
bless 'em, stay clunky ♪
♪ Black tar, feral fluid,
you knew it, but not junkie ♪
♪ I started crashin' wavy ♪
♪ Now I am under waters spelunking ♪
♪ Yeah, I gotta stunt 'cause
everything is doubled ♪
♪ In the cloud and if I'm
lovin' through the air ♪
♪ There ain't nothin' to slow me down ♪
♪ I gotta stunt 'cause
everything is doubled ♪
♪ In the cloud ♪
♪ I'm wylin' and (vocalizing)
think I'm wylin' out ♪
(truck rumbling)
(man vocalizing)
- [Man] Yeah, yeah, my
bitch, man, I don't know.
She be actin' retarded, I'm tellin' you.
Yeah, with the statuses on Facebook like,
"I can't wait 'til my man get home."
And I know sometimes she
be fuckin' with (mumbles)
from time to time so she
might feel some type of way
she's fuckin' with me, yeah, word up.
I don't know, let me tell you something.
Let me tell you something.
When you walk into these buildings,
you might not be coming out.
This is sniper time, son.
These niggas know (mumbles)
You could be waitin' up
tryin' to get the (mumbles)
you know, these niggas
jealous of your boy.
(man mumbles)
(bass beats)
♪ DIY-Fi ♪
♪ Why try ♪
♪ That's wifi, yank price life (laughs) ♪
(phone dialing)
- [Man] Yeah!
♪ Look, all I can't control ♪
♪ Endless scroller, wonder hero ♪
♪ I'm fly, gamin' lamin' flamin' blamin' ♪
♪ Trolls stayin' in my console ♪
♪ DK that guy aimin' plays
'em out the council ♪
♪ Like I'm free ♪
♪ T-Y-B-G, I still trap though ♪
♪ I'm still trap though ♪
♪ I still wrap those routers in the foil ♪
♪ And I'm quick to get
lit in the (vocalizing) ♪
♪ Used to hit a lick but that got old ♪
♪ (vocalizing) what I did not know ♪
♪ Gotta a three dot glue
(vocalizing) misconduct ♪
♪ So if it's free, best
believe (dialing) ♪
♪ You are the product ♪
(bass beats)
(man shouts)
♪ This world mine ♪
♪ This world mine ♪
♪ This world mine ♪
♪ This world mine ♪
♪ This world mine ♪
♪ This world mine ♪
♪ This world mine ♪
- That cinematography on
that was by Jared Turner
with Henry Mason Dent, and yeah.
Wrote and directed and acted in that.
The Lanyard's video shows
a fictional art agency
hired to rebrand the NSA
after it was discovered
that they had been surveilling
Americans without warrant
or suspicion.
The printed matter and graphics were from
the Chelsea Manning leaks.
Throughout all this was a
burgeoning popular interest
in the internet persona,
the profile, etc.,
states of being, which were
present in the black experience
from long before telecommunication.
If we consider code switching,
double consciousness,
and the like as a forerunner, in addition
to the acknowledgement
of the plantation itself
as a surveillance state.
While theorists and journalists
raved about the creation
of a new subjectivity
afforded by the internet,
there are many ways in which
the technology reiterates
things already present.
Responding both to the
internet meme of Trevoning
I found on Tumblr, a
perverse variance planking,
which in itself may have been a reference
to the middle passage body storage methods
and to the line in Migos
featuring Drake's "Versace"
which sounded eerily
like the attitude held
by George Zimmerman.
♪ This is a gated community ♪
♪ Please get the fuck off the property ♪
♪ Rap must be changing
'cause I am on top of there ♪
♪ No one on top of me ♪
- I performed the day after the acquittal
of George Zimmerman while in Mexico City.
The duration was set by the length of
"Versace Versace" playing three times.
The piece was called "Cliffa",
a reference to a drug
that some kids were using
what sometimes cause them
to nod out in public places,
and I had an experience
with one of these kids on a crowded train
saying in prostrate and fearing him dead
until two tall dapper
businessmen nudged him
with their wing tips to
make more space to stand.
Black speech is always coerced speech.
According to Frank
Wildrowson, two homologies
between the libidinal dichotomy of debate
and libidinal dichotomy of the plantation
are negrophilia and negrophobia.
Both of which are subtended
by gratuitous violence.
Negrophobia and negrophilia is catalyzed
by an unimaginable
encounter with blackness.
Gratuitous violence is well
theorized by Orlando Patterson
along with two other constitutive
elements of social death,
natal alienation and general dishonor.
(drum beats)
(horn blows)
(smooth jazz music)
- Hey, Robbie, would you
drop me off at the bus stop,
if it's not out of your way?
- Sure, Bill, I'll be glad to.
- Don't be at my party tomorrow night
'cause you bring all your friends.
(people chatter)
- Bye, everyone.
Yeah, I'll see you tomorrow
night at the party.
- I'll give you a ring
first thing in the morning.
- Better make it by eleven if you can.
- Night.
- Night.
- I oughta be going to.
It was awfully nice of
you to invite me here.
You know this is the first time I've been
to anything like this,
and thanks a lot, Bruce,
for showing me how rock'n roll is jazz.
- Bruce, did you tell her
that rock'n roll is jazz?
- Yeah, sure, that's what I told her.
There's something wrong with that?
- Bruce, how square can you get?
Rock'n roll is not jazz.
Rock'n roll is merely an
offspring of rhythm and blues.
- Now, look here, whatever your name is.
Who are you to know so much?
- Natalie, Natalie--
- Cutting in like this.
- You haven't met Alex?
Alex here is an arranger for
the Paul Sieverson Group.
- So what?
Oh, that makes him an authority?
- Almost anyone knows
rock'n roll is not jazz.
Hello, Alex.
- Well, if jazz is not
rock'n roll, what is jazz?
So tell me what jazz is, Alex.
- Jazz is merely the Negro's
cry of joy and suffering.
Now, wait a minute, Luis.
You talk as if Negroes were the only ones
who could've created jazz.
- Not only did they create
jazz, they were the only ones
who could've created jazz.
- Now, look, that's unfair, Alex.
There are a lot of fine white
musicians that play jazz.
Remember, you and I heard some last night.
- Sure there are, but the
Negro and the Negro alone
created jazz.
He created jazz from
the special slant he has
on the American scene.
- [Man] That's how we tell this story.
- [Man] Only a part of it.
- [Woman] It's clear to me
that the Negro created jazz,
but still, is he the only
one who could've created it?
- Yes, the Negro was the only
one with the necessary musical
and human history could create jazz.
- No, if you mean the Negro has suffered,
everybody's suffered,
and who's suffered more
than the Jews?
- Yeah, how can you answer that one?
- Well, a Negro can be Jewish or Catholic.
Now, you can lose a leg, I can lose a leg.
Whatever happens to you can happen to me,
and in addition, I am Negro.
- All right, all right,
but I wanna know about is
what about all the fine white musicians
who have contributed to jazz?
Jazz is American!
You guys are trying to
make a racial distinction
where there isn't one!
- Look, John, all the fundamental
and basic contributions
to all the various kinds of
jazz have been made by Negroes.
The white musicians you
think of are merely playing
follow the leader.
- Well, Alex, what is
there about the Negroes
where you're making music
which is crucial to jazz?
- To answer that, Bob, I'd
have to go into the nature
of jazz, and I don't know that
there's that much interest
around for anything that deep.
- Oh, well, anyway, Alex,
she asked what jazz is,
and we've been talking
about everything else.
So, why don't you tell me?
- Sure thing.
Suppose I make a comparison
between joy and suffering
in Negro life and jazz as a music.
All of you have seen various
aspects of Negro life
at times, right?
Take for instance the area
right around where we had
our jam session yesterday as a starter.
Let's look at some of these
manifestations of Negro life
and compare them to jazz, okay?
(rumbling)
(piano plays)
As Luis put it a moment ago,
a Negro is potentially capable
of experiencing everything
that all Americans experience
plus Negroes have to go
the hazard of being Negro.
The hazard of being
Negro begins before birth
and extends beyond death.
The difficulty in being
Negro resides in being able
to accept all the hazards of
being Negro and simultaneously
to triumph over these hazards.
(lively jazz music)
Jazz is the musical
expression of the triumph
of the Negro's spirit.
(lively jazz music)
The Negro cry of joy and
suffering in jazz is based
on a contradiction in jazz.
This contradiction is between
freedom and restraint.
Let's talk about restraint in jazz.
The feeling of restraint
in jazz is caused in part
by the way jazz form operates.
The basic formal unit of jazz,
which is called the chorus,
repeats itself endlessly
without getting anywhere.
That is why the chorus is restraining.
This endless repetition is
like a chain around the spirit
and is a reflection of the
denial of the future to the Negro
and the American way of life.
(lively jazz music)
Another restraining factor
in jazz are the changes.
Like any other structure,
the chorus is held together
by certain materials and their patterns.
These materials and their
patterns are termed harmonies.
A jazzman calls them changes.
The changes are stated
through the rhythm section,
especially the piano and guitar.
The pattern of the changes is
repeated over and over again.
(lively jazz music)
(lively jazz music)
- One could try to attribute
the poignancy of black arts
and culture along with a
proclivity for network aesthetics
to a long-developing and
multivalent coping mechanism
against the physical and psychic assaults
from white supremacy, but
that would be reductive
and would not address
the richness of models
found in myriad cultures
across the continent of Africa
before European contact.
I guess I should also
mention it's funny, yeah,
James Baldwin hated this movie.
I think that's pretty cool.
Though we can certainly see
the, I like James Baldwin,
but I just think that's cool.
Though we can certainly
see the proliferation
of anti-black violence in
media and black erasure
in popular music, etc. in a continuum
with the minstrel show and
the postcards circulated
after lynchings to say it's
only the new form of that
would be shortsighted
at best and at worst,
create a causal relation between
the systematic oppression
and aesthetic potency.
(upbeat music)
- This is something that
bring everybody together.
You know, common cause, common objective,
and I think probably just
for the individuals too,
it just makes you a little bit more,
have a little more stamina.
You know what they say, you
know, if it doesn't kill ya,
it makes your stronger. (laughs)
- We may have dictator, but
that's gonna make for some
great art, music, and comedy
for the next few decades, right?
Growing up, I would hear people
drawing conclusions often
between the figure of the griot and the MC
when I became a hip-hop head.
Found throughout Central
and Western Africa,
but with similar roles also
present in North Africa
and elsewhere that may be known as
(foreign language) groups.
On the one hand, the
griot, lots of controversy
on even using this term.
Partially because its origin is unclear,
and it may be a mispronunciation
by Portuguese traders
that spread to the French
that was then reintegrated.
Alas, the griot is a role
that is not gender-specific
but is hereditary and
almost a class of its own
within the community.
They may become very wealthy
and be celebrated in public
like (foreign language) here,
but many also face
discrimination and are held
at arm's length because
they hold a kind of power
that other, more modern
political leaders desire.
They function as master of
ceremonies at celebrations
in the community, including
weddings, births, naming,
installation of chiefs, not
unlike Jay-Z and Beyonce
at the inauguration of Obama,
and times of well wishing.
They also function as the
historian of the village,
as seen dramatized here in
roots, where Alex Haley,
played by James Earl Jones
encounters a village elder.
- He said begot him a son
called (foreign language).
- It's been hours.
How far are we?
- I don't know.
(foreign language)
When he had 30 reigns,
(foreign language)
he married (foreign language),
who gave him four sons,
and they were named Kunta,
Lamin, Swadu, and Madi.
(foreign language)
And about that time, the
king's soldiers came.
The eldest son, Kunta, left
the village to cut a tree
(foreign language)
to make himself a drum,
and that was the last time
that he was seen.
- What?
What?
Say that again.
Tell him to say that again.
Tell him to say that again!
(foreign language)
(foreign language)
- [Man] The eldest son left
the village (foreign language)
to make a drum, and that was
the last time that he was seen.
- My god.
Again, again, again!
(foreign language)
(foreign language)
- [Man] The eldest son,
Kunta, (foreign language)
left the village (foreign
language) to cut a tree
(foreign language) to make himself a drum,
and that was the last
time that he was seen.
- And he say
(foreign language)
he was out in the woods,
not far from his village,
cutting down a tree to
make himself a drum.
(foreign language)
And when he was doing that,
that's when the slavers
caught him and never see
his mama and his papa again
in his whole life. (laughs)
You owe Africa!
I found you, Kunta Kente!
I found you!
I found you!
I found you! (laughs)
(foreign language)
(foreign language)
- [Man] Praise be to Allah,
the one long lost to us,
who Allah has returned.
Welcome, son of Kente.
(foreign langue)
Welcome to your village.
(whistling)
(foreign language)
She says, "We are you, and you are us."
(foreign language)
(baby cries)
- In this fictionalized
account, he attempts to undo
the loss of (mumbles) alienation.
With some overlap and some
contrast, the MC was charged
with being the voice of the
voiceless, skillfully telling
the stories of people in the neighborhood,
painting a portrait of the happenings,
and having a proximity
to a variety of people,
especially those maligned or even admired,
like the drug dealer,
the pimp, the sex worker,
the gang member, the college dropout, etc.
The griot also hold the song
heritage of the village,
not only in voice but instrument too,
but across the wide variety of cultures,
the kinds of activities the
griot is responsible for
is wide, leading for
some scholars to fight
for more specific terms.
With that said and with
acknowledgement to the wide set
of rules taken by the griot, a posit them
not like the rapper but
instead, the network hub.
Like an aggregator, they're
available to make declarations
of happy birthday,
congratulations, but also be
a town crier, sharing news,
as well as music, humor,
and other means to build
and reinvigorate community.
Seeing Alex Haley nearly pass
out after hours of listening
to the veritable database of knowledge
possessed by the elder,
one can certainly imagine
the experience of scroll fatigue.
I have been looking at a variety
of activities and materials
from the lens of multiple
aspects of my identity,
and more recently, attempting
to look at black strategies
across the diaspora as a set
of network cultures developed
to both covertly and otherwise,
such as these paintings
I've made whose compositions
are based off of graphic codes
allegedly used black people
seeking and escaping slavery
during the underground railroad.
This was along with looking
at ways that activities
are attempted to be
curtailed by individual
and state forces.
This is a closeup of a piece
called "Drunk Tank Pink".
Looks an installation.
If you can't read it, it
says "Not Chris Dorner,
"please do not shoot."
This is called "(foreign
language), Run, Come Save Me",
and this is made with anti-climb paint.
I'm inspired by the idea of a
martial at masked as a dance
as in (foreign language)
and the vandal tool,
both anti-social and
social masked as media.
And this is a piece called
"VHS Mop", where, yeah,
it's a marker.
It's just a giant marker,
made out of a VHS tape.
I wanna close with a
recent work in progress,
a spectrographic song with embedded images
of killer cops who were
acquitted of charges,
Betty Shelby, Bryan
Encinia, Jason Stockly,
(mumbles) and Peter Leon.
(distorted music)
(vocalizing)
♪ What's up (rapping) ♪
♪ Protected by the thin of the line ♪
♪ Body cams lookin' like the
new image to my postcard ♪
♪ Cameras (rapping) ♪
♪ What a time to be alive ♪
♪ This is the new genre to
click bait black lives ♪
♪ It ain't right ♪
♪ I can't abide ♪
♪ 'Cause when these fucks bring
an innocent black (rapping) ♪
♪ In cuffs alive if we're lucky ♪
♪ Just a slap on the wrist and
the whispers sweet nothings ♪
♪ Of (rapping) just misquoting ♪
♪ Hammer, you can't test this ♪
♪ Gavel slams ♪
♪ No (rapping) sketches
for grieving families ♪
♪ Whose taxes pay for the casualties ♪
♪ But even if there was ♪
♪ Watercolors to help
reflect and breathe ♪
♪ There's still the deed ♪
♪ And paid killers walk free ♪
♪ Can't they see ♪
♪ It's all a lie (vocalizing) ♪
♪ It's a tough job ♪
♪ And they got a seven-figure settlement ♪
♪ And we got some paid days off ♪
♪ What more do you want ♪
♪ Not this ♪
♪ Not this ♪
♪ Not this ♪
(distortion echoes)
♪ Not this ♪
♪ Not this ♪
♪ Not this ♪
♪ Not this ♪
♪ Not this ♪
(hip-hop beats)
- All right.
- What?
- [Man] This you?
- Sir, I don't know what
you're talkin' about.
Everything you see is me.
- [Devin] This is from the
For the People Arts Collective
in Chicago.
This was a protest for Rekia Boyd's, well,
after the acquittal of Donte
Cervan who was found to be
the killer of Rekia Boyd
after he was acquitted,
they did this Vogue party
on the Blue Line in Chicago.
This was last year.
♪ Just shine because they hate us ♪
♪ Floss 'cause they the greatest ♪
♪ We tryin' to buy back our 40 acres ♪
♪ For that paper, look how low we stoop ♪
♪ Even if you in ♪
♪ Freedom ♪
♪ We buy a lot of clothes, but we ♪
(firecrackers popping)
- I had an interview scheduled
at a very prominent hotel.
I came in with my raincoat
and a couple of other things,
and I went to the check booth,
and I simply was going to
ask her where I could find this person
that I was to be interviewed from.
She took one look at me, and she said,
"Oh, we don't take those here.
"You have to go around the back."
So, (laughs) I looked
at her, and I smiled.
And I said, "Excuse me, but
I was not going to ask you
"To take my coat and check
it, which is your job.
"I simply was going to
ask you for direction,
"but I will take this
moment to let you know
"just in case you don't
that everyone of us
"that look like me are not all
in a position of servitude."
I don't look for anything or
ask for anything other than
to be treated like a
human being, that's all.
- All right, great, that's it, thanks!
(audience claps)
- [Woman] Yes, I'm curious,
since you work with sound
as well as video, do you
have a preference of medium?
- Hmm, no.
(audience laughs)
Well, well, yeah, I
mean, I guess, a lot of,
not all of the video pieces,
but the vast majority of them
that I use do incorporate
sound whether it be music
or other kinds of sonic elements so yeah.
I mean, I think more often
I am doing sound-based
or music-based projects than
video, but I wouldn't say
that I like it more than the other.
It's just I use them for
different things think.
- [Woman] Yeah, I think,
I asked it wrong. (laughs)
I think a better question
was as you begin your process
of creating a work, do you
begin with sound or with video
or is it, I guess you answered it.
It's a mixture of both.
- Yeah, it's more like
I begin with an idea,
and then, I go to whatever medium, yeah.
- [Man] When you talk about skateboarding
and particularly street
skateboarding, are you referencing
the way you see the world
through the eyes of a skateboarder?
- Unfortunately, yes. (laughs)
I can't undo it.
- [Man] Yeah.
- I like walk, and I'm like, "Oh!
"This weird part of the
curb goes down this way,
which could be used in this way," or
"Oh, there's this slight crack or crevice
right before this thing," which yeah.
But I guess there is no
one mind of a skateboarder
I would say 'cause I think
the way that different people
approach different terrains
makes a huge difference.
Like if you look at
someone like Bobby Poleo
or Ricky Oiola, or like Jamal Williams,
these people look at skating
and ad-hoc architecture
in a way that's almost like
on a continuum, you know?
So, I think just the
notion of taking something
that was not intended to be
used in this particular way
and in many ways, sometimes
they're designed to be like
not used like when you
think about the way that
a skater will use a public
plaza or something like that,
which was, yeah, like
these things which were
sometimes just created just so
that the whatever corporation
gets a small, I'm tryin' to
think of what's the word.
(sighs) budget (snaps)
anyway, they get an incentive.
They get a monetary incentive
for having something
which is ostensibly for the public good.
However, they also wanna design something
for the public good that
is not going to allow
for homeless people to stay
there or for certain kinds
of foot traffic so they
design certain things
which are made for people
to not actually use it.
And then, someone on a
wooden board says like,
"Oh, I can use this if I do
this to it or this to it,"
you know, so that, I
think that, it's metaphor
unfortunately, yeah.
- [Man] That question answered a lot of,
it answers some things for
me because I was lookin'
at your pathways, like how
you came to different images,
how you came to different
videos, how you came to
creating different
conversations, which is all
the same conversation
and artworks and music
that went along with it.
Would you say that your
mindset as a skateboarder
influences the way that you create art?
The reason why I say that is
because when you talk about
this crevice, this corner, and
how to approach that corner,
how to approach that
crevice, and then, the things
that you would see in the
underworld of skateboarding
that the regular person
wouldn't see because I'm not
looking for a space.
- Sure.
- [Man] To skateboard.
Would you say that that,
those actions then influence
the way that you dig for
records, dig for information,
and then use it in a videoscape?
- Yeah, I mean it's all,
all those things have a
through line of connection,
which is like repurposing.
- [Man] I wanna say that--
- I would say like yeah, that.
- [Man] I wanna say
this has been brilliant.
- Oh cool.
- [Man] Thank you so much.
- I'm glad you got somethin'
out of it, yeah, rad.
- [Man] So, you like post
all your stuff online,
basically right?
- No.
- [Man] You don't like music I mean?
- I post a lot of stuff online though.
(audience laughs)
- Yeah.
- Like a lot a lot.
- [Man] Are you, do you ever think about,
or like are you cool with
the fac that it might
just kind of get washed
away with everything else
in terms of the internet?
Just like going on, like
how do you treat that
as a thing, do you?
- Yeah, I guess I'm cool with it.
At the moment, I try to,
well, actually, a lot of
certain things I just
produce and I put it online
so that I know it's there,
and other things I produce
and I try to get other
people to look at it.
But I'm really into I guess
this is also related to
skateboarding or graffiti
or also somewhat relates
like video games too.
The Easter egg, you
know, the hidden thing,
like if you're looking
for it, you can get it,
you can find it.
Like you know there's channels on YouTube
where there's videos that
have under 100 views.
(audience laughs)
Right, isn't that awesome?
Sometimes those videos are good too, yeah.
- [Woman] I actually just
wanna say while you were
giving your presentation I remembered,
I was tryin' to remember how
I became aware of your work
because I feel like I've been
following you on Facebook
for years, and I actually
remember someone commenting
on your Facebook and
saying, "This is like taking
"a masters-level course
in media and culture."
And I was like, yeah, this
makes me, I learn something
like everyday from what
you post on the internet
so I just wanna tell all the students that
you should follow Devin--
- Oh yeah, follow my Facebook.
- [Woman] And look at
the stuff that he posts.
- I put mad stuff on there.
- [Woman] And his, you know,
and also just the writing
that you put on Facebook
too and the conversations
that you start with
people 'cause you're often
the first person to post about
something that's happening
in art or just in current events.
But yeah--
- Sometimes.
- [Woman] Sometimes.
- Other times,
people like Rafia are,
you should follow her too.
- [Woman] You're at the
origin of all knowledge
on the internet, but. (laughs)
- Yeah, I get lucky sometimes, yeah.
- [Woman] But yeah, and I
also made the connection
that I first started following
you because we were both
in Apogee Magazine Legacy Russell curated,
and she's coming here in I think in April,
and she says hi, so.
- Awesome, yeah.
There was a piece that was
in this that she curated
into a show that black swirly
anti-climb paint piece,
"(foreign langue), Run,
Come Save Me", she curated
and kind of commissioned that
to happen so that was cool.
- [Woman] Awesome.
- Legacy is great.
- [Woman] Thanks.
- Yeah.
- [Man] So, from Chicago.
- Hey, sup.
- [Man] Studied in
Chicago, studied in L.A.,
and now, you're in New York, or?
- Yeah, well, I, most of my,
up to 18, most of that time
was in Chicago, like 14 of
the 18 years just about.
- [Man] And down in Hyde Park, right?
- Yeah.
- [Man] Okay.
- Hyde Park/Kinwood.
- [Man] So, I mean, do you see
some demonstrable differences
between the skateboarding
cultures and the rap cultures
and whatnot, and do you adapt
to them or you just kinda?
- Wait, when?
- [Man] Whenever, I mean,
have you made changes
when you've made moves
for school and living
and things like that to kind
of feel, do you feel you adapt
to the individual cities?
- I would say that the, I
mean the hip-hop community
was really really strong
in Chicago when I was there
and pretty diverse as well.
However, and that has continued.
There's like people from
many different tracks
that have been able to
continue, and now, that has
a lot more visibility,
which I think is great.
So, you have somebody
like G-Urbo, G-Herbo,
and then, you have Chance
the Rapper, Chief Kief,
or like all these
different people that are,
have various, way different
approaches and all coming from
you know, Chicago.
- [Man] But do you find
that you change depending
on the culture that you're within,
personally about your
style and the neighborhood
and the culture of the city itself?
- Well, I, yeah, I guess I
have to learn certain ways
of being for certain neighborhoods.
Like the particular
neighborhood I grew up in
and the age I was and
the ability to vote or
buy alcoholic beverages.
All these things changed
my I guess my approach,
but yeah, it's, there's definitely
some influence for sure,
but I think there's a way
in which it's also I can see
it also on a continuum too.
- [Man] I think building
off a lot of these questions
that people are kind of talking about
and kind of synthesizing
them into something
that I'm really interested
in within the work is that
there's a sort of momentum that
goes into every single thing
that you do, and that
momentum because we exist here
on Earth is a kind of temporary thing,
things come to a halt.
Your reaction time is really significant.
A lot of the works you
showed, to my knowledge,
are all one-offs, aside
from a couple of things
that have been like redone--
- Part of other series, yeah.
- [Man] In other places or
a part of a series, so--
- Yeah, very few are done
in other places yeah.
- So, I didn't have a
way of really asking this
as a like a straight up question,
but what's your relationship
to something that exists
temporarily kind of through internet?
It can exist there as a
place, but then, translates
into a real-world situation
where say you have to
create the piece and then have
it just exist in a location
again and again.
For instance, like a "Drunk Tank" piece.
- Oh yeah yeah.
- [Man] Which is maybe
site-specific installation,
but then becomes redone
in another institution,
and I think maybe could you
talk about that a little bit?
- Sure, well, I guess with
that one in particular,
it was an idea, and then,
it became a site-specific
installation, which is I
guess kind of like a painting.
I kinda wanted to, I had a
wall, and there's a bunch
of panels made of homosote
board, and each of those panels
were like adhered to the wall,
or sorry, screwed to the wall
and then painted and then
that goop was put on top of it
with the idea that you could
then take it off and sell
the individual panels, but
yeah, that didn't work out.
But in the (laughs) in
the later iteration, yeah,
you can't do that at all.
It's just there, and
then, you scrape it off
and throw it away.
- [Man] Okay, so then--
- Yeah, so I guess
it was a different approach
for a different setting
also based on different
amounts of money I had
for making the work, yeah.
- [Man] Okay, so then, in the
inverse, say for the things
that are more temporary or
exist in more of atemporal world
do you think of websites
as site-specific situations
for your work?
- I should start thinkin' of them
as site-specific situations
'cause you see like,
I mean, I had that piece
where it had all of Geocities
on this physical archive
because those things are on,
it's data, you know.
It can be erased.
The servers can fail.
A variety of things can happen.
It can be purchased by someone
who doesn't want anybody
to ever see it again, and I
think institutions like Rhizone,
and there's also lots
of people who are doing
independent work of
archiving web material.
But then again, it begs
the question of okay,
we're saving this towards
what end, you know?
We save it so that other
generations or other audiences
can access it?
But in a way, sometimes
if you're producing things
which are for your immediate
contiguous community,
it may not merit that.
It may not need to have that
for it to have the intended
purpose, sorry, the intended impact, yeah.
So, I think about that,
and I don't really do a lot
of archiving of my own stuff, so yeah.
I'll probably be kicking myself
in maybe like a year or two
for that (laughs).
'Cause I'm looking at these,
a lot of these are 72 dpi jpegs,
and I'm like, yes, sick,
but maybe the future,
it'll be like, "Whoa!
"72 dpi jpeg!" versus like, you know.
"Yeah, you can't even get
something that low-res anymore.
"This is crazy!"
Yeah, hey!
- [Man] Hey.
Do you still skate?
- Yeah.
- [Man] You skate around here?
- No.
- [Man] Where do you skate?
- I mean I still cruise
through the streets.
I'm, oo, oo, whoa, whoa.
Tricky one, yeah, 'cause
if I said where I skated,
and then, this is going on to
like a documented archive thing
then that spot might get blown up,
and then, it won't be fun
to skate there anymore.
- [Man] Right, so do you
film yourself skating?
Do you fuck with self-documentation?
- That's super interesting.
I, the reason why I say that's
interesting is 'cause like
from the time period when I was skating,
you didn't film every time.
You had to set aside
time to film, but now,
everyone's filming all the time.
From when you first start
your kick flips to being able
to do stair sets or whatever,
and I think that's interesting
'cause they're, and it's much more doable.
You don't have to have your one friend
that has the whatever
G-X 1000 or whatever,
and the editing console.
You can just do it on your phone,
and I'm super into as a result
of that there being lots more
crew videos like on YouTube,
you can just have a crew,
and you just make a great skate video,
and you just put it out.
You don't have to be
sponsored, have resources
from other people to put
your material out there,
and I think that's great.
But to answer your question, no.
No, I don't film my
own self skating, yeah.
I'm thinking about it.
I'm thinking about it for
certain purposes, but yeah.
But no.
- [Man] There's a balance
between perpetuating your own energy
and then kind of tripping yourself out.
- I mean, yeah, I guess,
but it really depends
on how you approach skating
from like 'cause I think
a lot of folks that start
skating now in the last
five, six, seven years,
it's all on a continuum.
Like the mediated version and
them doing the actual thing
are all yeah, and it's not just skating.
I mean, I saw some guys
talking to each other
about their scooter footage, and I was,
no, he literally jumped like
a 20-stair on a scooter,
and I was like, this is insane!
This is insane.
It was like 11/15 stairs, but
that's still really crazy.
I'm like whoa, I yeah, yeah, yep.
- [Man] Thanks.
- [Woman] Thank you!
- Great, thanks a lot!
(audience claps)
Oh wait, wait wait wait.
Also, there's a project
I'm involved with, newly,
called "Bail Bloc".
You should download this
app on every computer
you have access to.
Basically, it mines a
cryptocurrency called Monero,
and then, that money is
then exchanged for actual
U.S. dollars, which is
used to bail people out
via the Bronx Freedom Fund,
and there's other instances,
like similar projects.
One is called Appalition,
but yeah, Bail Bloc.
B-A-I-L space B-L-O-C.
You should download it.
It runs in the background
of your computer.
It just like there.
It doesn't take up any,
like hardly any memory.
Yeah, do that and install
it on every computer
'cause the more processing power it has,
the more power it has to like
get people out of you know
jail and whatnot, so.
(audience claps)
