everyone I'm gonna call to order the
February 10th 2020 Royal Oak City
Commission meeting to order
we're gonna begin with an invocation
given by Commissioner Gibbs followed by
the Pledge of Allegiance please stand if
you can as we gather here tonight to
discuss the issues of our city I thank
you all for your participation for
coming to the meetings for watching on
TV and just communicating with all of
the elected officials and city employees
during the week when you see them at
Starbucks or proving grounds for me it's
the residents and the business owners
the business owners and operators that
are truly the heart of the city and
truly the backbone of the city so thank
you all right that brings us to item
number 4 on our agenda which is a
proclamation commemorating the 100th
anniversary of the American Legion
Franklin Lin posts 253 and I see we have
a lot of members here tonight I'm gonna
come down there and read the
proclamation I think we have I see
John's here I see Ed and we have Jack
and Don as well
Jona if you want to come on up people
read it up here and present it all right
this is truly a great honor for me to
read this
a lot of Royal Oak history here this is
a proclamation commemorating the 100th
anniversary of the American Legion Frank
Wendland post 253 whereas at the
conclusion of the First World War
soldiers returned to Royal Oak and could
be seen gathering in groups around town
to talk with each other about their war
experiences and whereas On February 10th
1920 lieutenant colonel Augustus get
Ganser of a city gave a stirring address
225 ex-servicemen in the auditorium of
the Royal Oak High School and whereas
inspired by the words of lieutenant
colonel Ganser the ex-servicemen founded
American Legion Post 253 whereas Frank
Wendland was a well-known Royal Oak
resident who had been one of the first
to answer the call to duty and whereas
Franklin once served his country with
bravery and distinction and one of the
most dangerous assignments a soldier can
have he was a sharpshooter in the United
States Army and answered his last call
in October 1918 and whereas since its
founding the Frank 1 1 2 3 has been
welcoming veterans from all branches of
the armed forces carrying out their
mission to implement goals aspirations
dreams peace blessings for our country
friends and families and whereas the
importance of the Frank Wendland post
253 to the Royal Oak Community is beyond
measure and Royal Oak is honored to be
the home of Frank Wendland post 253 now
therefore be it resolved I'm mayor
Fournier and the members of the Royal
Oak City Commission on behalf of the
entire Royal Oak community hereby extend
our congratulations to the American
Legion Frank 1 Lynn paws 253 on their
100th anniversary and wish them another
hundred years of continued success sir
and my fellow colleagues I humbly and
proudly accept his Proclamation on
behalf of Franklin post 253 American
Legion today is a very special day for
the members of our post first with
recognition by the city of our 100-year
anniversary and secondly it was exactly
100 years ago today February 10th 1920
that 25 veterans from World War one
assembled and held their very first
meeting of Franklin American Legion Post
at the then Royal Oak City High School
since that first meeting members of our
posts have contributed tens of thousands
of dollars and many thousands of hours
of work to assist fellow veterans when
they needed a little bit of help and
secondly we have always kept in mind to
make sure that the community would
consider us an asset and will look upon
us as the veterans organization that
they could be proud of
Thank You mayor I'd like to ask John
wehmanen is our post historian that
please come to the podium
done as our historian I'm gonna turn the
stewardship of this proclamation over to
you would you please see that it's
displayed prominently and proudly thank
you it's nice to see such a strong
attendance from Franklin Post here
tonight your ever present in our
community I can't think of a community
event that I'm not at where either
somebody is participating offering
guidance or in a lot of cases with John
taking pictures we appreciate everything
you do in our community and certainly
the the network that you provide for our
soldiers coming home so thank you for
everything you do in Roy Loeb so this
brings us to item number five which is
the Detroit Institute of Arts
presentation of the 2020 community
programs I think Julie McFarland is here
today hi Julie hello good evening my
name is Julie McFarland I'm a public
affairs officer at the Detroit Institute
of Arts
Dave Flynn who's also in public affairs
was hoping he could be here and he sends
his his apologies for not being able to
make it tonight I'm here with my
colleague Sharon Harrell who is a
community engagement officer at the
Museum as well so thank you for making
time on your agenda tonight I know that
you have a full schedule so I will be
brief the purpose of my visit here
tonight is just to provide an overview
of the four main ways the DIA serves
residents of Oakland County and
highlight just a few specific ways we
work with the residents in Royal Oak
here before diving in a little bit about
what makes the DIA such a special place
every year we welcome
thousands of visitors to the museum for
all kinds of reasons first of course to
see the art attend live music events
enjoy a film in the film theater do art
making in our Studios lots of different
reasons people come down to the museum
we have 65 objects in the collection
from around the globe from Asian
cultures to current times we even have a
little frog named Kermit who's on
display so if anyone wants to see Kermie
he's kind of an old guy doesn't get out
for very long so if you have time the
next month or so come down and visit him
so in 2012 probably many of you know
voters from Wayne Oakland and Macomb
counties approved a millage to support
the DIA part of that process after we
received a positive millage vote was the
three counties established governing
bodies so there's a governing body in
Wayne Oakland in Macomb counties and
they put together what we call service
agreements our guidelines for services
that we provide to County residents in
consideration of the millage so there's
four areas free admission education
program senior programs and community
partnership programs and I'm just going
to touch really briefly on each so the
first one is free general unlimited
admission so as an Oakland County
resident you are entitled to come to the
museum every single day that we're open
to the public without paying for your
admission since 2012 we've had over two
million Tri County residents take
advantage of their free admission
benefit and in 2018 we had over ninety
seven thousand visits from Oakland
County residents the second service is
our education programs we try to tell
people as much as we can that and we're
still working on making sure all schools
know this but K through 12 field trips
are free to the museum so students come
down
they get at or have lunch and
transportation is free so we pay for
that transportation for all the students
in Oakland County to come down to the
museum it's really been a game changer
for a lot of schools who otherwise
couldn't afford a visit to the museum
since 2012 we've brought nearly close to
a half a million students to the museum
on free field trips with transportation
part of the service agreement sets some
parameters so in Oakland County we need
to bring down 16 thousand students a
year from the time the millage started
that has not been a problem we hit that
16,000 number and then we just keep
going till everyone's been able to come
to the museum so in 2019 we had over
21,000 students come from Oakland County
we had a little bit over 1,400 students
from Royal Oak come so lots of the
schools in Royal Oak are taking
advantage of this benefit of the millage
in addition to that the other part of
our education program is teacher
professional development so we have lots
of options for teachers to come down to
the museum from really light touch
things like sneak peeks at exhibitions
to teacher appreciation breakfast
revitalize restore mornings to sort of
deeper dives things like 3d visual
thinking strategies workshops and other
workshops that help them take that
experience in the museum back to the
classroom and make connections to the
work that they're doing so the field
trip experience extends beyond just the
day that they come to the museum so
those are the first two areas the third
part of the Service Agreement deals with
senior programs so every Thursday we
have a Senior Program at the museum this
also includes group transportation so if
a senior group wants to come down they
have 25 people or more we'll send a bus
for them as well this is every Thursday
we have a variety of activities it
rotates
museum tours to art making classes films
lectures musical performances our team
is always trying to think of different
things to invite our seniors down to on
Thursdays if you're not part of a group
you're certainly welcome to join us with
your own transportation we have lots of
groups that come from Royal Oak Royal at
Manor co-op Royal Oak Senior Center and
village of Royal Oak all came for
multiple visits in 2019 and then the
last area is our Community Partnership
programs we've done a lot in Royal Oak
in with Royal Oak we just signed a
three-year partnership with OCC last
fall and that is going to include just
really helping OCC define this royal
campus as their arts and culture campus
we support Arts Beats and eats by
programming the children's stage drop-in
art making workshops I know we're at
clay and glass and fire I think it is
every year so community partnership
programs are just our way to bring dia
experiences out into the community but
also help community organizations
enhance arts and culture in their own
neighborhoods
and then the other another example of
community partnership programs is our
Inside Out program which many of you may
be familiar with we bring high quality
reproductions of work from the museum
over a hundred different outworks
into the community and kind of turn
these communities into outdoor art
exhibits that sort of highlight things
that are going on in the city landmark
locations and such
we brought inside out to Royal Oak in
2012 in 2014 and it looks like I think
what that inspired some of the work that
the Royal Oak Arts Commission is doing
with the artwork in the community that
you guys have today that's sort of the
end of the overview of my presentation I
just want to emphasize how
transformative the millage has been from
the museum and helping make all these
wonderful programs possible and we hope
that you'll share this information with
your neighbors friends constituents so
that more people can take advantage of
everything that we have to offer through
the millage thank you any questions
comments yeah thank you for making it
out here tonight I can't speak obviously
for any other community but I can think
first hand here and Royal Oak we've been
a direct beneficiary of the work that
you're doing through the millage so
we're very grateful for what you do at
the DIA so thank you for all your
efforts thank you I have a few materials
I'll probably just leave here you're on
that you can take and learn a little bit
more and ways to connect with us and
contact information to connect with some
of these some activities perfect we
appreciate that thank you all right
alright we got everybody on one side of
the room and left alright this brings us
to item number six which is public
comment a few words before we begin
public comment the City Commission
values and relies on the input of our
fellow citizens to help make decisions
now is the time set aside for the public
to address the City Commission both
issues on the agenda and issues that
aren't on the agenda a sec comments be
directed to the commission as a whole
and not to individual commissioners in
addition to public comment there'll be a
public hearing at tonight's meeting if
you're here to comment on the city
taverns request for approval a plan of
operation you can wait till that time
and we'll have another public comment
all the same rules apply if you wish to
speak tonight either a public comment or
at the public hearing please wait until
recognized by me the mayor please come
to the podium state your name and
address for the record because the City
Commission wishes to hear from anyone
who wants to speak tonight comments are
limited to three minutes or less and we
have a timer at the podium to help you
keep track of your time if you don't
wish to speak tonight that's alright we
typically get emails throughout the week
or even up to the the Commission meeting
so email is fine telephone calls are
fine as well please note that the City
Commission won't directly respond to
questions during public comment however
we are taking notes and when that topic
comes up we'll ask those questions on
your behalf and if you're up here
talking about something that isn't on
the agenda tonight our city manager's
taking notes and follows up accordingly
with your questions and concerns so with
that who's first tonight well I saw the
fast hand of mr. Cole oh come on out mr.
Cole Oh
we Dumas I'm eight to five west Estonia
and I'm here to represent the library
tonight and I am here with Brandon colo
from the library board we are here
tonight to present the library's annual
report that covers our fiscal year from
2018 actually starts in July 1st 2018 to
June 30th 2019 just a little bit about
what our annual report covers its
financial information that covers our
revenues and expenditures for the year
and also statistical information that
that um talks about our operating
activities it also includes a director's
letter and a Year in Review that
highlights some of the good things that
have happened throughout the year there
will be copies available online but also
anybody in the public who's interested
can pick up a copy in the library I am
going to turn it over to Brandon who's
going to tell you about some of the
report highlights from this last year
thanks Emily
mr. mayor members of the Commission the
library had another great year for the
second year in a row we saw summer
reading increase again and again more
kids are coming out more families are
coming out so it's a it's a really good
time for the library in the report as
Emily said there's statistical
information along with financial
information is required by city code we
reported this every year the library
enjoys a millage thanks to the citizens
where Alok keeps us funded keeps us
providing these great new opportunities
in the last year we saw like I said the
increase in summer reading we also open
up the 11 mile road entrance for the
first time things to a very generous
grant from the central park development
group that $10,000 allowed us to revamp
the doors and open them up and our nice
new neighbors helped accommodate that in
addition to that we also saw the number
of programs increase by 13% that was 67
more
programs I believe and a 48 percent
increase in the tents of these programs
so rural occurs again out there and
taking advantage of the great
programming the Emily and her staff are
providing speaking of Emily we have a
new director so yeah it's been very busy
year Mary Carson retired in January she
let us know she was leaving we had a
really nice search and Emily was the the
best choice we could make so Emily is a
native we're looking he's done a great
job leading the library so beyond that
the statistics you see are a little
skewed we had a door counter that
stopped working so it looks like our
visitors have decreased so we
acknowledge it we see it but if you look
at every other metric or increasing
we're loaning out more items we have
more people coming programming so we
believe that there is a blip that will
be corrected this year so coming back
around this year real statistic plan we
realize the value is teaching planning
how important it is to be involved with
their staff to make sure that they share
the same goals and values that we do and
one of those goals and values was a
improvement so we're in the process of
there right now and Emily wants to tell
you about it yes we're gonna have a
major interior improvement in the
library it's going to cover new
furniture new flooring new carpeting
paint a remodel of the teen area a
makerspace a remodel of the downstairs a
creation of a bigger play area some
things are like a new computer a new
laptop bar a new lounge area a fireplace
so lots of great things coming what I
wanted to remind people of is that we
are seeking public input beginning on
Monday February 17th at 11:00 a.m. we're
gonna have our first session we're
inviting the public in there's gonna be
a self-guided tour around the library
and then the public will have a chance
to ask questions of the library board
and myself and also give feedback but
what they'd like to see in the new
library the first session is February
17th 11 a.m.
later that night there's going to be one
at 7:00 p.m. and then
Saturday February 22nd there will be one
at 11 a.m. we did many great things this
last year too but looking ahead there
are many things on their highs and that
we're very excited about the biggest one
would probably be the library interior
improvement but also we have a book sale
coming up that is hosted by the Friends
of the library the Friends of the
library is a group that they generate
revenues from the sales of books that
support all library programming for all
ages the book sale will be March 5th
through 8th it begins on March 5th with
the Friends of members only preview but
memberships can be purchased at the door
starting at $10 gently used books and
DVDs will be on sale for as low as 25
cents each and also we are going to be
digitizing the formerly The Daily
Tribune now the Royal Oak Tribune it's
only been available in microfilm at the
library and an actual newspaper copies
dating back to 1866 it's going to be
digitized for the first time it's going
to be fully indexed searchable and
available on our website for anybody who
wants to access it that is it for us I
believe you have anything else to add
Brandon alright thank you so much thank
you
got a lot of work cut out for you this
year good luck nice work all right who's
next
yes sir
yeah if you can drop them off with our
city clerk Alice she'll make sure that
she passes them down for us sir thank
you thank you robert bruce photography
at 1412 east eleven Mile Road Royal Oak
Michigan I've had my business in Royal
Oak for an 11-mile for the past 18 years
and this is my first time coming in
front of you guys with any kind of
complaint so it's not a complaint but
it's a concern
so we've averaged out there's about
4,000 cars across the lane going east on
11 mile road in front of our building
during our hours of operation on a bad
snow day but as you can see from the
photographs the force from the snow
water salt rocks and ice hitting my
building is so great that it literally
shakes the building from pooling water
cause from bad road gutter point
directly in front of our building as far
as I know I'm the only business on 11
Mile Road between Maine and Campbell
that has this issue I had two broken
windows from this and numerous
complaints from customers being sprayed
I have not submitted any damage cost to
the city and have taken care of this
matter on my own up to this point this
is damaging to the windows brick mortar
and signage to my building not to
mention an eyesore as you can see from
the photos from the salt segregation and
mud on the facet of the building
throughout the winter it is also a
hazard to pedestrians and patrons
entering my building and simply walking
down the street it is impossible to keep
the sidewalk clear of ice and snow
because it is immediately thrown back on
the entire sidewalk as shown in the
pictures within seconds after I remove
it numerous clients have been hit with
force for water and mud while entering
through my front door and if you know
our studio we work with everybody from
Prime Minister Tony Blair Paul did some
and babies and kids so anyhow this is an
issue caused from bad guttering in the
curb the road that is causing a pool in
front of my building it's level and flat
directly and for my building it's the
only spot an 11-mile it doesn't have
a level to go down to the sewers and
then I've had a private inspector come
by who's a supervisor that works for the
city and county roads with MDOT who's
inspected it and verified my findings I
haven't been addressing this issue to
for the past three winners Jason Krieger
who was also the previous owner has
addressed this issue to the city during
his time of ownership I understand an
11-mile may or may not would be redone
by the year 2025 if this city is
unwilling to do the curb grade to create
a slope needed because of the slope
being level in front of my building
because the water does not flow east in
front of the building to go down into
the sewer then I asked that I can have a
variance to continue to put this vinyl
barrier up during snow periods to
protect my building and customers from
being injured or damage to my property I
did submit photographs to the city and
plans eyes did submit to engineering to
bill that should be on your desk the
next week or two and I have you know
paid the $350 I think so basically you
guys probably driven by my building and
seeing that I had this vinyl thing on
and we've had a contractor make sure
everything is you know to code but just
to kind of protect it because I know the
rolls costly and I was the president of
a lot of model has it also I know you
know that right now is probably not a
good time for royal to do it so I'm just
trying to prevent you know this kind of
a reoccurring thing until we can get
that portion or all of 11-mile done and
it is temporary I can put it up and take
it down within four minutes my
intentions are only to do it when I know
that the snow is going to hit and then I
take it down once that the picture you
see two of the curb it that was from
Saturday when we had an inch of snow it
gets way worse if it pulls what a lot
further out but I did that was a current
photograph so but I thank you for
listening thank you Robert and I know we
exchanged an email or two on it and I
have a little follow-up to do and I'll
be talking with the city manager I think
we just haven't connected yet on it sure
thing okay great thanks you can thanks
you guys mr. Halleck good evening mayor
and commissioners appreciate your time
I'd like to address item n on your
consent agenda which is approval of
proposed first amendment to Billy's
place Planned Unit development and
before I get going I would like to
acknowledge that the developer hired an
absolutely fantastic construction crew
they do everything they're supposed to
they notify us they keep it totally
clean they everything is gone at night
when they go home they never start early
they never run late they never run on
Sunday they do everything they're
supposed to it's the best construction
crew I've seen around the city ever
that being said at the beginning of
every meeting we are told that public
input is appreciated and we we like it
however when this project went up it is
70% larger than its supposed to be and
our objections from the neighborhood for
the two storeys taller than it's
supposed to be was completely ignored
you didn't actually even address a
single word about it and that was what
our complaints were was not that that
was going in there and three stories
would have been fine but you utterly
ignore it anything that neighbor had to
say and here we have a modification to
it which will put balconies on the fifth
floor aimed at our neighborhood and you
have no idea how loud that's going to be
when you do that and it's something I
regret
is when they put up the North Main did
you know that you can stand in front of
our house over 400 feet away and hear
everything they say on those balconies
like you're standing right here with me
you can have a conversation with them
that's the kind of noise that you get
from the size of the building echoing
back and here you're putting this
modification to put a balconies up on
top there are larger patios on the
consent agenda it's not going to the
Planning Commission there's no public
hearings there's no nothing
you're just sliding it by we don't get
any notification nothing that's
completely disreputable you have no
business operating like
that if you're going to do a
modification to a few D that a 70%
bigger than its supposed to beat again
but again with you need to talk to
people you need to get some input I know
you're going to vote for it anyway
because what happened last time but how
about at least putting through the
appearances of trying to pay attention
to what your residents actually want or
have to say thank you thank you mr.
Halleck all right who's next yes ma'am
Margaret colt 538 Mount Vernon I'm here
about permits 18 months ago I had to
have an air conditioning unit replaced
and went with a company that had a 39
year reputation I had worked with before
they had a stellar everything went fine
unfortunately I recently learned that
both mechanical and electrical permits
on that air conditioning replacement
expired I didn't know what that meant so
I called I believe it was the building
area the woman that I talked to said
there was something I could do about it
because a permanent was between the
contractor and the city and I would have
to contract I would have to connect with
the contractor this is where everything
went south I contacted the contractor
and found out that this gentleman sold
his business his name his phone his
contact list in his reputation to a less
than reputable heating and cooling
company who has less than a stellar
reputation who is operating under their
name the gentlemen who I initially
contacted with he or his son they share
the first name so I'm not able to
determine who it is it's still working
for that company under the old name they
will not I understand that from when a
permit expires that it has to be really
issued they will not they refuse to
reissue the permit because they said
they didn't do the work and therefore
they won't stand behind it even though
they're operating under the same name
they won't I have a workmen warranty for
both the work and the labor that's still
in effect won't honor that I called the
building department back and the woman
said she couldn't she didn't know
so she transferred me to Jason Jason
Craig excuse me he was not available and
I left a message and he never called me
back I had a second Congress
with the new company which went about as
bad as the first conversation I called
Jason Craig back again left another he
again wasn't available I again left a
message and again I heard from no one
my complaint with this is that if a city
requires a homeowner to get a permit in
the permit and the homeowner has no
say-so over that permit there should be
some way that the city notifies the
homeowner when there's a problem with
that permit this is not my first
go-around with permits four years ago I
came before the city commissioner four
of three I know for sure and I believe
it was for sat right where y'all are
sitting now in different seats but in
the same place I had a roof install that
failed an inspection the only way I knew
about that failed inspection was the
contractor put a big yellow permit on my
front door and said don't remove that
permit until the city comes out
physically rights on that permit that it
has passed and don't throw that sign
permit away a month went by didn't hear
anything from the city nobody signed off
on my permit I called the city inspector
and was told hey you were failed I said
well when were you going to notify me oh
we don't notify it's a kind it's an
issue between the contractors you're
gonna have to get in touch with the
contractor called the contractor the
contractor had no idea that the roof had
failed because he had not been notified
that issue got resolved but when I
called the woman back to tell her that
the contractor did not know that the
roof had failed her less a fair comment
to me was well I guess it just slipped
through the cracks well it was a major
problem would have been a major problem
for me because that's going against my
parcel ID I have I'm upset because I'm
back here four years later with the same
issue with permits and not in the
homeowner not having any say-so several
concerns one being that I think in this
day and age it would be very easy for
the building department to automate
to homeowners when there is a pending
dismissal or failure above I don't I
can't I lost the word now who who's lost
the failed inspection or who has an
expired permit coming up there's no
reason you send out letters for
everything else I don't understand why I
paid for those permits it was written
into my contract I understand finish
your list okay give me a couple minutes
I cannot get this resolved I also have a
problem with city and when you say call
and we'll get back to you nobody called
me back nobody delegated an initial
person to call me back and if you're
gonna be out of the office for a period
of time I think you can put an
out-of-office on your on your voicemail
at this point I don't know what I'm
supposed to do I'm caught between a rock
and a hard place I did a little search
in my little neck of the woods and a
whole lot of other neighborhoods around
Royal Oak and notice that there are a
whole lot of folks who are sitting on
expired permits and a lot who are
sitting on failed inspections who I bet
don't know any more than I do and
they're gonna be in for a big wide whoa
when it comes time to do a title search
on their parcel ID in it and they can't
clear it I don't know what to do anybody
has a suggestion I'd really like to hear
it but my bottom line is I think you
folks need if you're gonna take and
require permits and I can look out my
window and see that I have neighbors who
do not get permits over and over and
over again and I play by the rules and
I'm caught something's really really
really wrong and four years ago you
didn't listen to me either
I think mr. Gillam yeah I've got your
infamous Coppola talked to mr. Craig in
the morning now get a report for the
Commission all right who's next
going once going twice all right we're
gonna bring the meeting to this side of
the table for those of you who wish to
speak on the public hearing tonight
another
opportunity to speak will be afforded
under the same rules so this brings us
to item number seven which is the
approval of the agenda mr. Douglas
approval of the agenda a motion by
Commissioner douglas second by
commissioner du buc discussion all right
with none I'll call from the vote all
those in favor say aye
aye those opposed motion passes all
right that brings us to item 8 which is
the consent agenda does anyone wish to
pull anything off the consent agenda
Commissioner Levasseur items F and in F
Adem
okay the consent agenda now consists of
City Commission meeting minutes January
27th claims from January 31st approval
of purchase order declaration and
disposal of surplus property word of
contract cap 2001 2020 concrete pavement
replacement award of contract cap 2005
2020 concrete pavement repair program
word of contract cap 2010 2020 water
main improvements award of contract AB
2025 2020 joint ceiling improvements
award of contract cap 2035 2020 Road
reconstruction improvements award of
contract cap 2050 which is a 2020
Community Development Block Grant judson
Avenue paving improvements grant of
easement a public water main on 5125
Meyer Drive contract modification
contract s-1 903 spot sewer repairs and
receive and file the non action items
which this time includes a January 2020
investment report is there a motion
motion by Commissioner Maisie seconded
by Commissioner Perosh discussion all
right with none I'll call for the vote
on the consent agenda as presented all
those in favor say aye aye motion passes
picture Levasseur item F and then item n
thank you with regard to item F this is
with regard to a bids for sidewalk
improvements and we received an email
today from a resident who had two
concerns and just to paraphrase them
summarized them number number one he was
looking at the bid amounts and seeing
that there was a huge despair
try understand why why there might have
been such a huge disparity between the
two beds that was number one concern
that the resident race number two was
essentially a quality control issue with
regard to previous work with with the
the low bidder and just we're looking
for some feedback from the engineer era
and those two issues good evening mayor
and commissioners there is a quite a
large disparity between the two bidders
on this project there's only these two
companies that do sidewalk work in this
type of quantity anymore so Italia has
traditionally been lower than Audia and
they both bid on the project we found
that for the most part Italia does
fairly good work and how do you does
fairly good work dealing with both
contractors in the past and they both
had contracts with us in the past we
we've had issues not quality issues but
more like timing issues getting them to
finish the work in a timely manner and
we because this is a much smaller
project than we've run in the past in
the past we've had more than a million
dollars with the sidewalk work annually
this is a little more than half if you
take Italia's prices as as far as
comparing to past projects they seem to
think they'll get the work done by
sometime in July this year and not
continue to go on into the fall months
so we we do have some more safeguards
we've written into our contracts as far
as quality goes and the fact that they
have to make sure that if they go beyond
the days that they say that they agree
to and they're scheduled and they're
gonna pay us additional costs or costs
come out of their contract for the
delays in their work and of course
that's always a negotiated thing because
there can be delays due to weather and
and other types of factors that are
reasonably expected in any type of
construction project but we are
confident that I tell you I can do the
job and they can do it for the prices
they have here and get done in a timely
manner and we'll definitely have staff
available to watch and make sure that
they do things the way they're supposed
to okay so looking at the two bids
you're confident that they're both
biddings apples and apples and there
wasn't some misunderstanding as to the
scope of the work or writing of that
nature between these two it yes and in
the past
odious prices were you know when we did
awarded to them we were we were we had
dealt with Italian in a row they had
gone over the time of completion and
into the following spring to finish
their work so we decided to try it out
with Audi and the prices were
significantly higher they've always
traditionally been higher as a as a
contractor I'm not saying that relays
into a better quality product they we
also had issues with them as far as the
timing and and their requests for extras
that they wanted to be paid but both
companies are good companies it's just a
matter of we believe that this is the
best value for the for the homeowner and
you know we certainly don't want to
charge people more than the minimum that
we can you know the reason right now the
issue they had with the quality control
is not so much with the timing I'm done
with the concerns the resident had has
expressed an email now so much in the in
the timing as in the quality of the work
product and and just can you explain to
us the safeguards to do follow-up if
there's some defect in the work product
well I'm not familiar with the the
homeowner who contacted you what their
what their issue is with quality we hear
complaints from everybody rig for many
people regarding the the quality of the
finished concrete the fact that you know
the when you saw through the sidewalks
the splatter gets up on their lawn or
their fences or or other areas yes those
things happen and they end up on a punch
list and they have to be corrected
before the contractor before our
contractors close out and they're
allowed to start their warranty period
so their warranty doesn't start until
the day we've accepted all of their work
is being complete and that includes the
punch list item so if there's any items
of work that need to be done whether
it's
the lawn areas they get damaged adjacent
to the areas where we're building
sidewalks those things I'll get repaired
eventually how long is the warranty
period the warranty period is for one
year pressure may see semester Callahan
even told us previously that the
standard for the mix you're using and
the sidewalks as changing I think this
year but maybe in the recent years
because my memories their head that mix
you were using had been one that was
approved maybe for highways did you go
through that again well there hasn't
been another mix developed well we can
certainly work those things out with the
contractor they are responsible to keep
this to build a sidewalk that's going to
be acceptable to us from flaking scaling
that sort of thing the mixes that MDOT
uses for freeways has some small
percentage of a material that can cause
those things the vast majority of the
sidewalks that we build don't have those
problems so usually it's a typical to a
particular zone or a day that they might
have done something it's not always
related to the materials they're using
it can be related to the fact that the
homeowner when I put on salt on it which
we recommend that they don't do that can
also cause the same problems to occur so
we have to reiterate to people to not
salt their new sidewalks which is hard
to do because you know for replacing one
piece in front of your house how do you
not salt that one when you solve the
rest of them to keep the ice off but
it's not it's not a big problem and as
far as the vast majority of sidewalks
that we do that we see these minor
surface issues and if you're a resident
who you know the sidewalk is late and
then within you know weeks or something
you see this popping crackling they
contact absolutely okay and that's and
that's the kind of thing that could be
replaced yes those aren't expected those
aren't normal and that would be
something that the contractor would have
to you address Misha Levasseur a couple
things number one do we have any routine
method of communication with residents
first alerting them as to not to use
salt after
a new sidewalk flag is put in and number
two do we have some method in case with
residents informing them how to alert us
if there's if they see a problem with
some new sidewalk in front of their home
well we give out a letter to people with
the actual cost estimate for what's in
their property and it has a limited
amount of information thanks to Judy
over there we've kind of scaled back
what's how much information is in that
letter but it says if you have any
concerns or problems at all call the
engineering department that phone
numbers in there the link to the website
which has a lot more information about
sidewalks how we build them what they
can look for what to do and what not to
do and there's that is our main mailing
to the homeowners and surprisingly
people still lose and dispose of those
letters but we work with the people as
best as we can we do not send them a
second mailing to to remind them that of
things that they should be doing so it's
generic as far as hey if there's problem
let us know but it doesn't specifically
reference salting and it doesn't
specifically reference hey we have a
warranty period contact us if there's an
issue so that we can do something about
that all that stuff is on the website
if it's not on the letter it's on the
website is there also a door hanger I
feel like I remember from my time that
right before they came I also got a door
hanger you get a door hanger on your
door the day before if we have to block
off your driveway we don't want you to
be blocked on your driveway too if we
remove those those sidewalk legs across
that area people have appointments to
get to and work and things and so we
give you a door hanger that says bye you
know midday tomorrow we're gonna be
taking out the sidewalk in front of your
driveway so please you know park in the
street as best as possible
so I make sure we stay germane to the
topic at hand which is the contract in
front of us so if we want to talk about
the process of the sidewalks which
several of us have endured over close to
a decade now but we do have a contract
in front of us that was brought out I
think the question was why are we going
with the lowest bidder I think the
answer is evident I think the engineer
confirmed
you know there's really only two
contractors that can do this scale of
work we had a complaint from a resident
about some quality we literally have
thousands of flags every year that are
replaced and some are gonna be you know
not meet the test that's the nature of
construction and concrete and there's a
year of warranty and they get fixed and
engineering holds to the best of their
ability the contractors accountable for
their work even withholding payment
until things are completed in remedy so
its own let's make a motion to move
forward on the contract commissioner d
but yeah the understanding that there's
two qualified bidders and staffs
recommend the lowest qualified bidder
and we have experience with both of
these companies I'll move for the
resolution as proposed by staff motion
by Commissioner buck is Earth's second
second by commissioner Poosh any further
discussion on this all right with none
I'll call for the vote
all those in favor say aye those opposed
motion passes
Commissioner Levasseur and from the
consent agenda
thank you what I'm concerned about is
the placement of the the proposed
placement of the decks or balconies on
the west side of the building that
immediately neighbors a a single-family
residential neighborhood and I'm
wondering what the process would be to
approve this but to eliminate those
decks I don't know if we have anyone
here from planning no mister doing it a
personal conflict tonight so I mean that
the balconies that are proposed it's two
on the north end of the building and two
on the south end one on the east side of
the building one on the west side on
both the north and south so a total of
four different balconies I suppose if
the action the the Commission wanted to
take would be to approve the amendment
with the elimination of two of the
balconies you could do that we would
have to bring back I think probably the
cleanest way to do it would be to bring
back under a revised amendment to the
agreement for
approval at a subsequent meeting I mean
the language than the resolution that's
been presented makes the final terms of
the amendment subject to the approval of
the City Attorney but if there's
specific direction from the City
Commission as to what should be
permitted and what shouldn't be
permitted I'd feel more comfortable
bringing back a revised amendment would
you need a motion along those lines to
make it happen some kind of motion would
be appropriate and that's to set to the
plank commissioner or where we send this
I think what were your what it would be
would be referring the issue back to
staff to revise the proposed amendment
to the PUD agreement so I mean I suppose
if you wanted to you could ask that this
go back to the Planning Commission but
there is no specific provision in the
zoning ordinance that would require this
type of an amendment to a PUD agreement
to go back through the Planning
Commission process so I know um it's
it's a little bit atypical here but
before we go through that process you
know I'd like to hear I see the
architect is here tonight and the
petitioner maybe we learn a little bit
more if the Commission doesn't object to
it
I'll take executive privilege here and
learn a little bit more about what they
want to do before we make any decisions
because you have a project that's
already under construction right now
from my understanding this is a nice
small add-on to you know improve the
property it's not a catastrophic change
to the design of it and I'd like to hear
from the petitioner before we you know
delay construction eliminate the idea as
far as we know this could be a really
good thing in our downtown you know for
these residences so you know this isn't
something that you know the ground
hasn't broken this is a small audible
that's been called and requested so
we've done this before we had another
project on 11-mile where they came in
during construction and wanted to add
some balconies and that was fine
near a residential neighborhood so I'd
like to hear from the petitioners if
they're willing to come up tonight and
talk a little bit about it anyone object
to that
okay I see mr. Nadal ski and mr. Klatt
here mr. Krieger yeah I'm good evening
my name is Jason Krieger with career
that architects 21 2011 mile and lended
all ski with LL land doing the project
so you know I'll just give you a brief
on how this all came about and let if
you want to expand on it please do so as
you know we're constructing the project
and initially we were approved to have
balconies on the west side okay once the
fifth floor got put on and frankly LEM
walked out said look at these views we
can make this an even better project and
improve on the penthouse units which is
what these will affect let let's let's
go for it and let's try and make this a
home run even more so than it already is
so what we are absolutely sensitive to
adding balconies on the west because the
neighbors our proposal is to add the
balconies on the north and on the south
the area that will connect the existing
aki-nee's on the west to the proposed
balconies on the north and south is
really a walkway it gets you to these
other areas to sit at these are high-end
units they are these these proposed
terraces or balconies are just for those
units only so just me for those
residents there is a like a social
balcony but it faces Main Street and
it's completely enclosed by the building
so we saw this and there's a simple
small addition something that does not
change in essence what was previously
approved because we already do have the
balconies out there on the west and on
the east but what it does is it creates
a stronger better amenity for those who
are going to be renting these high-end
units so that that's really the essence
of why we're here we're trying to
improve on it you think you can get
better rents and make it more attractive
and one thing important to notice 144
square feet so there
very small and it's not open to the
public and we really put him out in the
north and the south end so that's a
walkway through the neighborhood in fact
if anything it's gonna be a little
quieter because they won't use their
balcony facing the neighbors they'll
actually go to the side balcony it's
enough to put a little round table with
four people to sit was the whole idea
we saw the views and the look on top of
that rooftop and just said we got to do
something this really really enhances
the look these units typically rent for
about thirty five hundred dollars a
month so you're not gonna have just it's
gonna be a class people too they don't
have a big wild parties that's not the
idea for as well we're also going to
screen it a little bit we're gonna have
some screening because we don't want
them to come out on the roof and stuff
we want to keep it pretty contained mr.
posh you may have mentioned this and I'm
I missed it how wide is that walkway
portion that's along the west side it's
about four feet okay each one of those
little squares that you see are two feet
in you're missing there's a wall there
too
correct yeah there's a there's a 42 inch
high or actually 48 inch high wall as
well you're gonna walk by around the
exterior yeah yes so you so to sit there
and actually have a view it's a 48 inch
wall you wouldn't really want to sit
there and do that so as a walkway you'd
go to the side view to the east on the
west side of it okay thanks would
wouldn't be much of a view unless you're
standing there where if you want to sit
down and have a barbecue or something on
a table you'd go to the side acts is
what that's for
questions Thank You mr. Nidal sleek mr.
Krieger oh I see so I'm looking at the
walkways
but then on both sides both the North
and the South it still seems that that
balcony that's face it that's
technically on the north and south is
still kind of facing that back direction
right so the openness is going to be
more toward Main Street or toward Main
Street and looking out east in the north
there's a guardrail and that conditions
no different than what we previously had
approved
it's just that areas not intended to sit
at its intended to walk by to go to the
sitting area that's on the north or on
the south
the four balconies that face west on the
west side do they also have that for
football they do okay so this would just
be a continuation of what's already
there for those balconies right okay and
the units in the middle you know they're
I would use the term landline remember
we stuffed the building and to try and
reduce the massing initially and because
of the size of a lot and everything so
much we can do with the building so
unfortunately they can't benefit from
this but on the north and in the south
you know we're hoping that we can do
this to give them a better outdoor
seating area yeah mr. Gibbs correct me
if I'm wrong the one facing West is the
one looking over Main Street correct the
one the West faces the neighborhood the
West faces the neighborhood correct okay
wait
don't you see a problem with balconies
looking right down into people's
backyards no it's five stories up and
there's if there's a half wall to help
screen it okay so little kids wouldn't
be able to to look over it but an adult
can easily look over a four foot well
most adults can easily look over a four
foot
Wow and you're looking rated down into
people's backyards probably not into
their house because of the angle but you
know there's families with swimming
pools that it can't be a very favorable
you know that can be a very unfavorable
opportunity for people who shouldn't be
looking into backyards with swimming
pools and you currently have that in the
blue decks already approved that are
there we're actually moving it a little
more further and that's a walkway to get
there so I also count 33 balconies
already facing the west so I mean I
think we went through the set planning
we went through it up here and we
approved the project what this is
essentially doing is taking the
penthouse units and saying hey I mean it
almost to a benefit where you the blue
spaces that are up there that are
already facing you know the neighborhood
are now gonna be activated on the north
and south which those face
I think the Greek Street food cuisine oh
yeah and then I believe the parish to
the north right yeah so you know in
reality what you're doing is you know I
could argue that you're making the it
better not that there should be issues I
mean this is something that's you know
right in downtown so I don't see I think
I see it as a request that helps you
know make the project better and nicer
and more marketable and it takes
residence and it moves it and it's not
creating a new problem I mean there's
already balconies there and you know we
went through this analysis so that's my
thought I probably wasn't in favor of
the balconies being there over the
houses the first time through that's
done commission a lesser I'm not
comfortable moving forward with this
without knowing that there's been some
discussion with the folks in the
neighborhood to address their concerns
my motion is going to be to refer this
back to staff to bring us a an
alternative proposal that would
eliminate the proposed extension of the
balconies on the northwest and the
Southwest corners of the development
motion by Commissioner Levasseur is
there a second I'll second that second
by Commissioner Gibbs discussion we're
sure Douglas I think the fact that staff
put this on the consent agenda initially
is telling they're usually pretty
sensitive to any major changes putting
it on the discussion agenda I don't find
these additions to be in terms of the
overall project to be an overreach at
all I look into my neighbors backyards
all the time so I mean yard they have a
yard so I mean I just don't see this to
be a big deal in the grand scheme of
things and so I will vote against the
motion and should my views prevail I
will move to approve the beauty team mr.
du Bois yeah I grew of commissioner
Douglas I don't think this is that
substitute of a change to bear it in a
mountain of government bureaucracy it
seems like very simple request to
improve quality of life and the value of
those units and if the biggest concern
is yeah your neighbor might be OSI in
your backyard well that goes ready when
the Loews next to a two-story home your
native neighbor from their bathroom or
their bedroom can see in your backyard
that's that's what it's like that
neighbors and and I can tell you any
night when I didn't summer when I sleep
with my windows open if any of my
neighbors is talking on their front
porch I can hear them like they're
sitting next to me in my bedroom that's
just that's that's having neighbors
we're not talking about putting a
nightclub up there or a restaurant or
something this is so a couple people
live in the unit can sit out there and
have a cocktail or you know a little
dinner on their patio
I don't think that's such a nuisance
that we have to make a you know a
federal case out of it so I'm happy to
approve this because it is not a
substantive change or requires us going
back to the drawing board amazing so
when I when I heard this brought forward
I was thinking that it was adding
balconies to a side facing neighborhood
that didn't exist before and I didn't
like this look through planning and
somehow it seemed like it was a little
bit of a trick dad balcony is where
there hadn't been something facing the
neighbors but I've spent a long time
trying to figure out which way this map
is going and now my understanding is
that there already are balconies facing
this exact direction I don't know that
I'm totally convinced that the walkway
is just going to divert all of the
people away from that because it's still
there's still a little balcony spot
there but to me that would be what the
concern should be is the balcony spot
that's already existing and that's
already there and the extent this does
anything it maybe moves them to another
spot so I'm gonna be voting against this
motion and in favor of the change
sharpers not to prolong this part of the
discussion a lot longer but I also like
commissioner Douglas looking into
everybody else's backyard I know you
have open fences we don't have privacy
fences the houses are close together we
see what everybody else is doing unless
they have a huge privacy fence and in
terms of being up high and looking down
the Royal Oak Manor the Barton Towers
those have 12 stories of balconies that
look right into blacks of backyards all
the time so this is nothing new having
tall buildings with the ability to look
over somebody else's yard that's been
going on for 30 years so that's just
part of living in an urban area with a
lot of close by neighbors not only
houses but also multi-family residential
this is a lot more quiet a use than what
has been there historically when it was
an automotive dealership for a long time
ago or portions of that so the fact that
it's now residential as opposed to
commercial is improving the noise factor
right there
so I also don't see this as adding any
additional balcony space so
speak into these areas they're going to
be moving to the north end or the south
end of those those balconies they're not
going to be hanging out for the most
part on those little four inch strips
along the side so plus there's balconies
already on the west side so anyway I
will not be voting in favor of the
motion okay anything else I'll call for
the vote all those in favor say aye aye
aye those opposed no motion fails share
Douglas move approval of the revision to
the PUD as proposed a motion by
Commissioner Douglas is there a second
second by Commissioner Macey discussion
with Commissioner Macey just like my
neighbors to know that I do not look
into that right there watching just in
case you live on the corner I think it's
the other way around
oh so now they're all kind of weirded
out by our colleagues here being
behaviors I'll call for the vote all
those in favor say aye
hi those opposed today okay the motion
passes thank you gentlemen for
explaining the situation a little bit
all right
this brings us to item 9 the first non
consent agenda item the Michigan Liquor
Control Commission licensed
establishments public hearing City
Tavern Royal Oak LLC request to approve
new plan of operation mayor City
Commission we do have a request to
review a plan of operation from City
Tavern Royal Oak LLC they're requesting
to transfer the ownership of the Class C
and SDM liquor license currently used by
Hamlin Corner and strata the applicants
will be doing business at City Tavern
located at 376 and 386 North Day getting
to that okay so the applicants request
to drop the space located at three six
six a North Main formerly occupied by
strata the applicants also request to
cancel the 2 additional bar permits
catering permit and specific food permit
City Tavern Royal Oak LLC is owned by
John Mar senior John Mars
you're Victor pollution
pollution I believe Ron Nikolas and City
Tavern holding LLC City Tavern holding
LLC is owned by John Mars senior John
Mars jr. and Victor pollution
the applicants will spend two hundred
and ninety thousand dollars approached
its purchased the assets including the
liquor license and spend an additional
fifty thousand dollars in renovations
and leaseholder improvements and the
breakdown of the financials are located
are included in the memo they'll be
taken over the current lease and will
pay paying that lease with with through
sales the applicant City Tavern began in
nineteen twenty nineteen in the space
that was formerly mr. B's Rochester
Michigan City Tavern concept is based on
a cheer styled neighborhood
establishment which serves great food
with exceptional service the applicants
john mars senior and junior and Ryan
Nichols have been in a restaurant
business for over 23 years they have
owned mr. B's Rochester in Michigan in
Rochester Michigan for last 23 years and
the mr. B's Roadhouse in Independence
for last 15 years they've had a handful
of ml/cc violations and they're included
we spoke with law enforcement reps from
both communities and they said they're
well-run establishments and have very
responsive owners Victor has been
involved in several businesses including
briefly business in Royal Oak he has
held interest in old Detroit burger bar
and Orion Township Clubhouse 81 in
Auburn Hills old Detroit City Grill in
Royal Oak and Moe's Pete in Flint
Township his ml/cc violations are
included also and of course we have
spoken with the other law enforcement
reps in those communities and they all
spoke positively a victor in addition to
the applicants they will have three full
time managers to run day to day
Ron nickel Niomi Valley and Tim Bernard
where they have extensive experience and
they will be running the day-to-day
operations if a prove they want to
operate as an upscale sports themed
restaurant offering full service kitchen
and bar hours of operation will be 11
a.m. till 12 a.m. Sunday through
Thursday and 11 a.m. through 2 a.m.
Friday and Saturday they'll have a full
service kitchen the kitchen will open up
30 minutes prior to closed or I'm sorry
kitchen will be open until 30 minutes
prior to closing last service will be 20
minutes prior to closing they were
basically the same footprint as Hamlin
Corner one with one less bar seat the
applicants are requesting a dance permit
the dance permit will which is probably
10 by 20 and the applicants are also
requesting an entertainment permit they
will offer occasional live music DJs and
interaction with trivia and sports
personalities all live music will end at
1:00 a.m. the applicants will close all
the windows and doors when there is live
music or a DJ and the applicants have
agreed to sign and strictly adhere to
the city's entertainment and dance
permits the applicants are employing an
experienced management team including
one of the applicants who will actually
oversee day-to-day operations our
findings indicate the applicants meet
the necessary requirements of the police
department and we do not oppose this
request if approved however the
applicants will have to comply with all
planning zoning and building
requirements and restrictions questions
for the chief chief are you aware of any
interaction or discussions that are
taking place between the applicant and
the residents of the building above yes
the applicants have made contact with
the rep from the condo association and
it's my understanding that they don't
oppose this change
okay well then our other questions for
the chief to the petitioners want to see
miss Allen here representing tell us a
little bit more about the concept and
open themselves up for for questions
good evening mr. mayor members of City
Commission I'm Kelly Allen on behalf of
the applicants tonight I want to
introduce you to the team here you're
gonna get to know them John where's jr.
you stand up
where's okay and Ron Nikol he's also a
member and this is no Amy she's gonna be
managing and this is to bed nerd he's
gonna be managing as well all three
partners okay so you guys can have a
seat
and as usual lieutenant and the chief
have done a great a great job on this
write-up everything is correct I do want
to make a point that the folks from the
condo association are here and John
reached out to them and and met with
them and talked about what they want to
do there and who they are it's really
something they have been in Rochester
for 23 years so I mean my kids were in
you know diapers in that place and they
have almost a perfect record they have
one substantive violation in 23 years in
Rochester and I think it's also very
illustrative that you know the chief and
and lieutenant Spencer reached out to
all of law enforcement all of the places
where Victor and the Mars family have
operated and really no problems at all
so the the Stratos face is going away
this will take over this will be the
city tavern Royal Oak and I'm sure that
you will find it to be a very exciting
new concept in the downtown questions
for miss Allen or the petitioners mr.
Douglas what do you say the Strada place
is going away they're not taking the
Stratis face the Stratis face is there's
a for lease sign in that additional area
that the Hamlin corner had taken on and
and concept it as strata so they're only
taking the primary Hamlin corner space
okay good things going away in terms of
this applicant right
any other questions
all right well what I'll do is I'll open
up the public hearing same rules apply
that we had on public comment please
come to the podium once recognized by me
you got three minutes and there's a
timer at the podium to help you keep
track of your time anyone wish to speak
tonight let's go mr. Halleck good
evening again
I wish the City Tavern and a lot of
success live right directly across the
street and I have to tell you in case
you didn't know at Hamline corner was
the most miserable neighbor anybody has
ever seen they played music live music
and DJ till two o'clock in the morning
many days a week that with their windows
and doors always wide open
and mr. Craig would never even respond
to neighborhood complaints let alone do
anything about it and they had exactly
the same rules and they never ever shut
them down or complained or made them
close their windows or made them shut up
stop at one o'clock like they were
required to I really hope this City
Tavern will actually follow the rules
I'm not sure how much I'm going to hear
anymore because I now have five story
building in front of me but I assure you
there's going to be 70 tenants they're
going to be really angry if they
continue to do that because they're
going to be right on top of it and
that's going to echo right through their
place as a major way so I'm hoping City
Tavern will be themselves and if not I
hope the city building department
actually will do their job and respond
to them when they complain Thank You mr.
Hallett anybody else wish to speak
tonight at public comment or at the
hearing mr. Keller
in the in the building right there and
lived through the nightmare of the
Hamline corner so it was right below us
and I actually got involved with it and
Peter Ulrich is our HOA president that's
here and actually had to get involved
with the city and the police and started
showing the videos and going through
there and in fact I think you guys have
responded and have kind of turned this
thing around now I've had the
opportunity to meet with the team went
down there chatted with John actually
invited us down to see what was going to
happen down there I actually brought
another board member of from our HOA
that had spent time in the restaurant
business and went through the whole
litany of what is what are you talking
about is it bottle service what are you
gonna do to avoid exactly what you were
saying cuz it was a complete nightmare
and my take on it is these guys really
do seem responsible we've done our own
background checks on them ourselves and
where they've been in business and did
our own little you know social
background type thing and kind of a test
to what you're saying that I think these
guys are pretty good upstanding citizens
they're their business model that
they've had on all of the other places
has exactly what they've been operating
to this Cheers environment the answer to
the Strada thing was one of my deepest
concerns because when that was opened up
that's when this whole thing turned out
to be a nightmare and Strada
to my understanding the way it's going
to get constructed now can't even get a
liquor license because it was attached
to Hamlin to begin with so it's going to
be a standalone place these guys have
walled it off they were not interested
in doing a nightclub they were
interested in doing a Cheers the place
that we think the building would support
to go down and so we're looking to be a
neighbor and bridge that that type of a
community the other thing that I like to
hear is in the places that they also
have they are community members they buy
t-shirts they get the softball the
Little League they have you know breast
cancer awareness turkey trots that kind
of thing that's the kind of neighbor
that we were looking for so I can't
guarantee everything just like you said
but it sure sounds a heck of a lot
better than what we had with ham one
where we got zero response so that would
just be the input 1/2 yeah thank you mr.
Kelson anybody else wish to speak
tonight at tonight's public hearing
alright I'm gonna close the public
hearing and bring the discussion to this
side of the table any additional
questions for the chief or the
petitioners Commissioner Levasseur uh
see if you heard the complaints about
Hamlin and a lot of get your perspective
whether that there was an enforcement
issue or whether they were acting within
the scope of what they're allowed to do
but there was no answer we didn't take
or if there's some other explanation oh
yes I will tell you there was a mention
of code enforcement it's a Police
Department's responsibility and we we
were responsive when Hamlin first opened
up there was some growing pains that we
work through and that's why they're
required to keep their doors I think
they're the only business that has that
requirement in their plan of operation
to keep their their things all shut we
did make sure they did that we also you
know especially lately there was a a
change when they got strata and then
lately we had a couple of high profile
incidents and we were I think we're here
today because of the response we had
with them and what would we tolerate we
require everyone to sign an
entertainment and agreement and dance
permit and they've had businesses all
over and I'm guessing they've never
signed anything like that before and
that gives us a lot of authority at
Hamlin we pulled their dance permit and
that helped us to get to where we are
today where maybe we've got a more
responsive operator but you know our our
our job when we come in we try to work
with new business owners to get them to
understand that we're serious when we
say a plan of operation we're holding
you to it but there's a point where it
goes too far and then we'll do the
things we need to do to to address it if
we find that there's problems for the
residents above what steps should they
take what steps can we take well it
depends on what the problem is there's
some like like you have to if they have
loud music and and their windows are
open it's past 1:00 they should call the
police and say they're not a lot
to do that and want someone to go why
and check it out our problem is when we
go by there they have to actually be in
violation and a lot of times or not if
there's a vehicle in front of their
business with loud music and it's not
actually their business that it's not
really on them
if they can't manage their crowds coming
and going and that becomes an issue
we'll try to work with them so my
suggestion would be is if there's an
issue call the police explain what the
issue is we'll go look at it and
everything every time we do that it's
very well documented and pretty in the
next month you'll see the annual report
with all these documentation of all
these calls we get but if they don't
call us a lot of times we don't know
there's a problem other questions from
the petitioner noise sound no just the
overall I'm having flashbacks to when we
first approved Hamelin corner and we
kind of need the brand right because how
many horizontally there's a contingent
in our city that's always like outside
everything's a Trojan horse for a
nightclub right and nine nine hundred
times it has not been but in this case
it was it like quickly became a
nightclub much to the dismay of the
people in the building of the
surrounding neighborhood so I see here
you know DJ and live music and I'm very
much Pro live music I think that's very
cool I just want to we Handley when
Hamlin came in was very much the same
context high-end sports bar sports bar
is kind of what we do I'm just warning
where does DJ fit in to that model and
live music fit into a model that's a
fair question to ask before we vote on
approval no you're on the wrong night
Chloe yeah I know the wrong with that is
I want to understand exactly what we're
talking about there mr. mayor
Commissioner thanks for having us
tonight and definitely want to address
that on behalf of my partners I'm Ron
nickel and I currently operate the mr.
B's Roadhouse in Clarkston and just
whatsoever and having any type of
nightclub atmosphere
we have live entertainment in Clarkston
and actually it got to a point where it
was kind of snowballing as far as the
crowd was getting a little rowdy out
there and a little out of control we
changed our security and we started
pointing out people like they've had
problems in the past let them know
they're not welcome in our establishment
one by one you know in a matter of a
month we cleaned up the place got rid of
you know any of the crowd that had
created a problem and brought the level
back down to a nice comfortable live
entertainment people can relax have a
drink it was starting to turn in to the
nightclub we turned it away from that
because that's not what we wanted
currently our model out there is like
70% food 30% alcohol that's comfortable
that's where we're at and you know we
don't we definitely don't want to upset
any of the neighbors around us above us
we want to be a part of the community
for a long time and the last thing we
are gonna do is come in here and tell
you something that we're not it is who
we are and we're gonna be a nice
friendly place that's going to serve
great food and some good drinks and
comfortable relaxing atmosphere for
everybody in the community and all our
neighbors you folks I mean we we're
gonna keep it very low-key there and
just gonna have a good time where
everybody can relax I mean so no
interest at all in a nightclub so gonna
how often how frequent is it would you
say that you have the sound that you
have on is a game that's being viewed in
Clarkston yeah would you would your
intention be here in your other
establishment well generally right now
if it's you know a Michigan Michigan
State game we'll put the sound on unless
it's uh it's not a big game or you know
Lions games we put the sound on because
that's what the people want and we don't
put the so none for every single game it
just depends you know on the event if
it's a big game we'll put the sound on
for that otherwise have some music going
in the background and well you know we
have the sport zone I don't think I'm
picking at you it's really just our
experience with this place and I'm not
even picking on nightclubs there's a
place for that just probably not
underneath the residential right yeah I
mean I had no I
there was so much history at that
location but over the last couple months
have definitely heard some stories and
they sound like nightmares more than
stories actually so yeah we want no part
of that at all thank you you sure you
that any other questions thank you
all right if there's no other questions
someone's willing to make a motion the
body can entertain it Commissioner Poosh
I'll move approval of this a motion by
Commissioner proof second by
Commissioner Dubuc discussion of
Commissioner Bruce we have a daughter
and son-in-law that live out in the
Rochester area and we know that you are
sponsors of a number of the locals
little sports teams and so on so we know
you're good community partners and the
communication in the communities where
you work so to me that's a big selling
point then you're willing to to actually
commit to the community and donate the
time and effort to do that kind of stuff
so on that basis as well as the good
operations that you've had in your other
establishments I'm I'm very happy that
you're coming into this location I'll
just add seems that your business model
over the past number of years doesn't
really relate itself to some of the
issues maybe that resulted from the
previous tenant so I think your history
or experience what you're trying to do
will fit well in the event that it
doesn't we have some safeguards with the
volunteer dance permit and entertainment
permit contracts that you've signed into
so you know and I also believe that we
have one of the you know best police
departments in the state and you know
our first objective is to always you
know resolve issues and work with
operators and work with neighbors so if
anything does pop up unique that is
unanticipated I'm confident that you're
gonna get you know the full support of
everyone involved to resolve it and so I
think we have some stop gaps and we have
some operators I have a good reputation
a good models so I have no problem
supporting this motion
alright call for the vote all those in
favor say aye aye those opposed motion
passes
congratulations when the winds uh open
time start dates March 1st yeah yeah
it's an important date to meet all right
that brings us to item number 10 the
Commission for the Arts annual report
mr. getting jurors here mr. Kazan yes
good evening mayor and City Commission
tonight we are here to present the
annual report as required by the
Commission for the Arts ordinance
quickly go through a couple of the
highlights for the last year
number one participation in the
programming continues to grow and when I
mean participation I'm talking about the
sponsors volunteers the artists who are
involved each year we keep seeing a
growth with that the programs themselves
the summer concert series this year I
think was the best we've ever had
constant odds on Center Street the art
explored continues to do well bring in
high quality art Luca piano project has
become a staple of summer in downtown
Royal Oak this year we also put together
the first artist laureate program in
which we selected two artists to serve
as the co artist laureate and they are
currently working on their public art
project so with that I have with me a
chair of the Commission for the Arts
Jason getting her who will give you a
little bit more mister getting her
how's it going everybody Jason getting
her we have a fantastic group of people
that get together every month and talk
about things and then go off and do
wonderful projects for our city and we
have great leadership from you guys in
James and I would like to publicly
recognize that how great he's been for
us over these last number of years with
us fantastic I every year things get
better we have more and more interesting
things I'm not exactly sure where that
public art project by our artist
laureates ends up but I think we've
talked about it hopefully ending up
maybe in our new facilities over here at
City Hall so a wonderful support I'd
love to answer any questions anybody has
about the arts and things we've done
this year and take any of your comments
questions we sure I do but I mean I
guess my first comment would be like
this you know who's born what five five
six years ago we passed the ordinance
six years like it maybe seven or eight
at this point and I was one of the first
things we did after after we were first
elected in 11 it was in the first year
or two and the evolution of it and the
product of the impact that we're seeing
on the community is awesome and you've
been at the helm and recognize you Jason
for that and James for all the awesome
work you've done but can we just
highlight a couple of things like the
growth of the piano project which came
out of your mind
and is volunteer driven and let's let's
just highlight that and what not just
the aesthetic that it brings to the city
and the coolness but the community
involvement around making it happen if I
should note I mean for for neighbors
that are polite like we've helped a
number of other communities now do
similar things there's a piano and in
Birmingham now we did consulted with
Ferndale about a piano like it's not a
new idea we definitely took that idea
from other communities around the world
but it was it was new for our city to
even broach that topic prior to the
Commission for the Arts existing
we would have to stand here for hours on
a Monday - for you guys to debate a
piece of artwork in front of in front of
a business on a sidewalk we now have a
process for that that allows for arts to
be a part of our community without
without it it tying up you guys's
resources which only goes to as long as
there's rules and for for how it
operates it makes wonderful things
happen almost on their own there's I
mean every every other month there's
somebody coming with a mural project I
mean we do I don't think we put that in
that in the in the thing but if
somebody's painting a mural on the side
of a building it comes in front of us
and then it comes into your consent
consent agenda just to make sure that it
conforms to the rules that we wrote
those things didn't exist eight years
ago so it is great to watch all of that
happen most of the projects that I've
gotten off the ground personally for the
Commission have just been to demonstrate
hey guys we can do this the first year
he did the public piano thing I did one
piano and it was in front of our
building and I was like it'll work and
everybody's like I don't know what do
people destroy it or we'll fix it or
whatever and we've had we've had a great
a great number of years with the piano
is now and it is something I hear about
all the time even I've had a lot of
meetings in Detroit recently and they're
like oh Hollywood Holiday Market that's
where the piano is at right like there's
a bunch of those kinds of comments so it
is fantastic to see all that stuff
happen I do hope that more people come
up with ideas and bring more things to
the table a lot of times they think that
there's a big pot of money sitting
around for those things and that's not
the true nature of this organization
it's it's it's to encourage and support
sometimes that's with money but more
often than not it's just the connections
to make sure that somebody could get
their project to happen
there's talk at the moment of a
sculpture park at some point which it
would be a significant undertaking and
it changed to a big a big piece of real
estate in our town which would be
amazing so all kinds of fun stuff that
would never have existed had we not
created this commission
the arts a number of years ago so that's
kudos to the Commission for making those
things happen as we look to the future
we are in its a situation of transition
in leadership in this community and I
hope that you guys remain steadfast in
your support of this this body and from
a staffing perspective and from a
resource perspective as we transition to
a new city manager later in your agenda
this evening when you discuss those
things I hope you keep the Commission
for the Arts in mind and all the
wonderful things that it's brought to
the community I mean there's garbs
across the street if you need a scarf at
the library that a bunch of knitters
make which is pretty amazing up we
wouldn't be able to make those
connections and those things happen if
not for support from the Commission and
our and our staff so it's a beautiful
project one other thing I wanted to ask
was given the growth of the Commission
and its influence and the things that
spring to the community and the Artic
sport project downtown where we have
artists from around the region proposing
installations for us do you feel like
are the draw is growing for artists in
the region like is it bringing value to
those artists or artists talking to
artists about the value of having their
work on display and Royall out so the
discussions at the moment in terms of
sculpture is and I always knew this to
be the case you just get started and
then we get to a better place later
sometimes artists or anybody with an
opinion about about the quality of
something stress the quality of
something when we're starting let me say
that how do I say that it's one thing to
be a fan of art it's another thing to
just get started so the first year we
did the public piano project we were
like what should we paint on the pianos
I'm like I have no idea like here's a
bunch of paint I got a bunch of paint
and a bunch of people and we had some
pretty awesome looking pianos as we
continued they get better and better
because now it's like ah hey why don't
you paint this one and hey why don't you
paint that one and and you know it
starts to get better over time so
similarly in terms of our sculpture and
years ago oh and Stuart meek was here
before James I had somebody yell at me
at a summer concert about the sculpture
in our city and
was somebody who lived on a street in
town and he was he who told me he was a
sculptor and he has works in the Louvre
in Paris and all over the world and he
creates works for communities all over
the planet and that we have the worst
sculptures on the planet in our and in
our in our program and I said well
that's wonderful
you come to our meetings and help us get
some better sculptures but at the same
time he's never come to a meeting so
this is not about our one art is better
than other it's about encouraging our
entire community to step up their game
and be a part of the Arts and that can
be a kid with a little scrap of paper
and a pencil and he writes he draws
something and it becomes something on on
a wall at the celebration of the arts
that we do in the spring which got a
sponsor today which is awesome thanks to
ideation I'm wonderful they're gonna
donate some yard signs or it can be a
sculptor that's world renowned so in
terms of the project I was just
referencing some people researching or
researching the ability to create a
sculpture park in our community with
world-renowned sculptors it'll take
significantly more resources than we
have but it's the type of thing that
people will will come to support if we
should find them so we're at that level
of people in our community that really
want to do some interesting things so
it's always my first question is is oh
that's awesome
what do we need Oh quarter-million
dollars I don't know where that's gonna
come from but uh but if you make a plan
maybe maybe we could get there so it
might take 10 years but it just gets we
have to get started so I'm happy to see
eight years of us starting I don't think
in my lifetime will ever be done and I
don't think any of you think we're ever
done with the city either but also we
can do is start the process and then ten
years from now we'll be even in a better
place so well thank you both for your
leadership and for all the cool things
you've done so far and the many things
I'm sure you're gonna do is to continue
to move this forward it it I love I love
I love that sentiment there's hundreds
of people on in this report that
made the arts a significant part of our
community tonight even the last
petitioner is going to put hearts in
there in their establishment in terms of
live music which i think is a wonderful
thing so it's it's all of us as a
community that are committed to this we
just get to be here and put it in a
pictures and hand it to you so even our
Commissioner representative Pett is
amazing and you were great when you were
there too so it wouldn't happen without
all of us so thank you guys for that a
couple of things first of all I also
would like to thank Jason for his
leadership on this Commission for the
years that I've been a representative to
it he's an extraordinary musician and
but is open to all different kinds of
explorations in different art medium and
he's a tremendous asset to this
community and to this organization I
also want to thank James because he is
not only a an administrator here in the
city but as the administrative
representative to the commission of the
Arts he is out there working with
projects beyond the normal workday just
because that's the nature of the
projects when the pianos have to be
moved in the summer downtown and then
moved back into the warehouse when it
gets cold James is out there helping
move them when we're setting up and
handling the celebration of the Arts
which is the usually the first Saturday
in June James is there that's a Saturday
completely occupied by all kinds of art
activities and he gives himself the the
pop-up parks on Center Street with the
concerts James is there those are after
hours and he is fully embraced all of
the crazy ideas that the Commission for
the Arts has come up with and has helped
many many many of them come to fruition
so we can't say enough about the good
things that James has contributed to
this commission and I think the
Commission really really appreciates the
work that you've done over the years we
will we will never forget it the other
thing I want to mention is that when
Jason was talking about the number of
volunteers that you see in the program
those are the actual volunteers that
have contributed to one or more
aspects of summer our program my name is
on the list because I I crochet hats and
they end up on that pole out by the
library but that's all I can do
artistically is that but but others
contribute not only their own artistic
efforts and they're they're brilliant at
it but because they are connected to
other artists in the community not only
in Royal Oak but in this region we have
been able to pull in all kinds of other
resources to facilitate the programs
that we have here in the community we
have an incredibly talented group of
people who are very very very well
connected with the artistic community
and that has been a tremendous help to
be able to broaden what we do beyond
just you know the little things that we
can do as individuals so I agree with
Jason this has been a banner year in
terms of the number of volunteers that
have volunteered the number of projects
that we've undertaken and successfully
accomplished we have a lot of ideas on
the drawing board for example the
sculpture park idea which is just in the
percolating stages right now but it's
it's really an exciting group to be
involved with I think the community
should be very proud of the work that
the Commission as a whole has done over
the years because it's added a lot of
value to the to the culture within the
community for a very low cost I mean we
do most of these things by the seat of
our pants without a whole lot of money
so it's really a great organization and
thank you both for everything that
you've contributed thank you yeah I'll
just add I mean Jason and James you guys
do a fantastic job and you mentioned a
little bit Jason about process procedure
policies but I was so glad that you
really summed it up with people
literally hundreds of people this is
really a good program which is just a
small framework for the catalyst of
individuals that you know come together
in the spirit of making our community
better and through your stewardship this
is possible and we just look forward to
more and more creative ideas and more
and more experiences that we get to
add to the quality of our life here in
Royal Oak so very grateful for you and
everybody that partakes in the programs
and it helps contribute it's really
remarkable so thank you
we sure do button so with a much
appreciation for you guys and everyone
that serves on the Commission and well
the volunteer is an artist I will move
to accept this motion by commissioner du
buc is there a second second by
Commissioner Bruce discussion all right
we'll call for the vote
all those in favor say aye Hey those
opposed thank you gentlemen thank you
for sticking around tonight
all right this brings us to item number
11 which is the approval of a license
agreement 2209 been set a boulevard mr.
Callahan back there mr. Callahan where's
yours
during the course of permits that were
pulled for the house construction at
this address on vinsetta we observed
that extensive landscaping a bit
installed in the public rights-of-way
of Murdoch and Lloyd adjacent of this
property
the landscaping includes over 60 trees
of significant size which were planted
without the city's consent on the right
away the property owner asked that the
landscaping be allowed to remain in the
right-of-way we worked with the property
owner to see if there was a possibility
of him removing his trees and planting
them on his private property as opposed
to the right away and he did not want to
follow that road he asked for a license
agreement
like most license agreements staff
recommends not approving this license
agreement is not something that is
beneficial to the city of Royal Oak who
could cause a significant cost later on
if we ever were to put utilities or a
sidewalk here and just the cost of
maintaining these trees that now become
ours because they're on City right away
can be significant the license agreement
that we did develop what the property
owner makes the response the the
property owner responsible for all these
trees the cost of maintaining them
moving them have become an ill health
removing that if we ever decide we have
to have a public utility or sidewalk or
anything else in the public right-of-way
there adjacent to his property we've
developed two sets of resolutions here
the first one is a set of resolutions to
deny the request is the first set of
resolutions however if you wanted to
grant the license agreement the the last
resolution is listed there on the page
the property owner was notified that he
could come forward tonight he's sorry I
didn't see him earlier but he sent it
back if he if you wanted to ask him any
questions but it's up to you to decide
what you'd like to do with this we think
that at least staffs opinion is if we
allow people to start landscaping the
right away in a manner that the city
doesn't approve and doesn't authorize in
advance we could get other people doing
exactly the same thing and going through
similar issues of granting permission
after the fact and making our right
aways less usable to the public hold on
one question the property we're looking
at I don't know if you can see here on
my screen yes he's not surrounded by
water but it's in this what we're
talking about tonight 'land yes it's
bounded by public streets on three sites
there are no other properties within
that triangular-shaped lot it's probably
one the more unique properties in the
city out of it yes it is okay mr.
Levasseur do we know how long these
trees and plantings have been at this
location not that long over the course
of the last three years they've been
planted was what I'm gonna guess a lot
of them are planted ball though just in
the last year have we noted any specific
problems between current user or current
situation because of these plantings
it's not the way that it is now but like
I said you know so we never know what
we're gonna need to do in our on the
city property in those locations
mr. macey um they all 60 need to go or
some of them are not so I get that
they're all on the right of way but it
sounds like some of them are blocking
sidewalks but maybe some or potential
sidewalks and some are not does that
that's correct
some of them are just there's the
combination of deciduous trees and
evergreen type trees conifers and we
typically don't allow those types of
trees to be planted in the right away
they have shallow root systems they can
lift the roads and and sidewalks if
sidewalks are nearby they just are not
conducive to something that we allowing
the right away so if you ever see a pine
tree or something on the right away it
was not authorized by the city and we
don't necessarily go out and police the
right-of-way to determine if there's a
tree somebody planted it's not approved
however in this situation this property
did have right away permits in order to
construct a house and during the course
of that time we do our final inspections
and we see something has obviously
changed the I mean we went through all
of the properties while a future
Commission could you know decide to put
a sidewalk there I mean at least a
couple times I've been up here when
we've gone through it we've elected not
to put or install sidewalks here on this
property that's correct so but down the
road if our Commission decided to do it
then you know those trees would have to
be removed
etc right now I mean we've already
elected consciously that we didn't
believe on an island I mean there's one
sidewalk that goes down been set up to
connect and set a bit on Murdoch and
Lloyd there are no sidewalks but we kind
of just a reiterate this was not off the
radar this was something that we looked
at decided as a commission not to put a
sidewalk there at some point you know
yeah heck in 2015 or so right 2014-15
okay
we're amazing that decision seems like
you remember it what's made because
there's no need for a sidewalk in this
strange island is that I remember more
that we went through every single place
in the city over six years and we
determined at you know it was almost
every month like okay we went through
the staff would identify where we should
put sidewalks where we shouldn't we
would decide yes or no we went on field
trips drove around and well I don't
remember this property specifically I do
remember that we went through in all
properties and you know we sectioned off
the city I think in six blocks or six
different groups yes and just every year
we'd hit up one group okay I mean I'm
not doubting the process but it it just
seemed like there were a few exceptions
and I'm wondering if anyone remembered
why this was one I think yeah I think I
do
it's a weird it's it's a big plot but
it's as someone pointed out its
triangular shaped and they're I mean I
think at the time we said that you know
if if something ever gets built there
that may affect our decision to include
sidewalks but when there was nothing on
that piece of property there was no
reason for people to be walking on it I
think was the logic so this house is
this house there was no house there no
there's no never a house there okay no
recent memory there was a house there
for a long time and it was eventually
demolished it was vacant for a while was
demolished the property was vacant for
quite a while I don't know how many
years it was vacant but then it was
obviously approved for for development
by the Farhat family I have a problem
with allowing these trees to continue I
it would mean taking down living trees
and that's something that is that that's
a really really really hard decision but
we have a real experienced builder here
who knows the rules and who understood
I'm sure that there's a public right
away and then he was planting in public
right away and it violated his right
away permit that he had the right away
permit that he had
allow him to plant landscaping in the
city right away and I granted a license
agreement as its drafted provides that
he has a lot of obligations to maintain
the trees and to get them out of the way
if we ever decide to put in a sidewalk
and so on and so forth he has to
maintain liability insurance but I think
it's a really bad bad precedent to say
it to set to say okay it you seriously
violated our rules and we're going to
let you get away with it by just signing
a license agreement I have difficulty
with that and so I'm not going to be
voting to approve the license agreement
if it comes to a vote which I do but
yeah I struggle with with how we landed
in this situation cuz I I agree the
petitioner is probably well aware of the
right away rules but also aware of our
affinity for trees and hey I don't want
to grant a pass where people can
essentially annex public land by
planting trees there and then preventing
the public from using that public
right-of-way so I mean we're kind of in
a tight spot but I'm curious to hear a
little bit more about how we ended up
here what was the purpose in planting
the trees knowingly planting the trees
in right-of-way that belongs to the
public knowing that this is where it
would end up all uh the Commission
doesn't object
I'll take chair privilege and if mr.
Farr has willing to come to the podium
I'll invite him to do so and kind of
explain the situation from his
perspective or head to toe and I've been
said uh I apologize that I'm pretty
unprepared tonight because until mr.
Callahan just told me that he was
suggesting a denial of this request I
was under the impression that he was
going to suggest that the Commission
supported this so I am a little confused
but I'm gonna do the best that I can to
try to explain and answer some of the
questions that you guys have asked over
the last few months my attorney along
with the city attorney have been
drafting a license agreement the entire
time we've been going back and forth
about language responsibilities duties
we finally came to a final draft it was
signed off by me
sent into the city and I was told that
the approval will come from the
Commission tonight so I fully came here
thinking I had full support of the
engineering department so I apologized
that I'm a little less prepared than I
should be to answer a few questions I
purchased the property in 2012 and the
property was torn down right after I
think if I recall correctly about 10 of
the trees were planted in 2012 and the
remainder of the trees were planted in
2016 or 2017 I know for a fact that none
have been planted within the last few
years
it wasn't until I pulled a permit for
the construction of our new home about
18 months ago that I was even aware that
there was an issue with the city I am a
licensed builder in the city of Royal
Oak and I have built many properties
I've not built any property on a lot as
unique as this before anything was done
I came to the engineering department and
inquired if there were any sidewalks
that were ever gonna go in on the Lloyd
and Murdoch side of the property I don't
have the drawing in front of me but I
would assume you do okay so I checked
with the engineering department to see
if there are any plans to install
sidewalks along those two stretches and
at that current time there was a
replacement program that was currently
going through the neighborhood that
exact neighborhood that I live in and
they elected to not put them in I then
went and asked are there any future
plans and was told that we I cannot be
guaranteed that there will be no
sidewalks ever put in but at this moment
there is no immediate need because
there's a sidewalk that runs along Lloyd
along Murdoch and for anyone to even get
to a sidewalk that could be along the
two sides of instead of they would be
inadvertently crossing a street to then
have to cross another Street to get
right back to where it is because there
is no other property in that space the
trees were planted because if you notice
the property is an island and there are
houses that face it from all directions
kind of what I would call like a
fishbowl and what my wife and I decided
was that we did not want to have a
privacy fence we kind of felt that would
look like a prison yard and it's a very
iconic Street and a lot so we chose to
use some natural
we both grew up in Royal Oak and know
that the neighbors in the city is very
keen on trees I believe and again I'm
sorry that I'm not prepared I believe
there are closer to 80 trees not 60
there's a variety of evergreen multi
stem single stem it is my understanding
that the ones that are of issue are the
Evergreen and the multi stem I believe
the single stem are okay but mr.
Callaghan would have to address that cuz
I'm not 100% sure the reason they were
put in is because I'm aware that between
the sidewalk and the street the reason
that no multi stem or evergreen can be
installed is because there is a vision
issue if somebody is coming down a
sidewalk somebody's backing out of a
driveway
it can cause issues with sight because I
was told no sidewalks are ever gonna be
installed on those two spaces nor does
the driveway that we have coming out to
vinsetta go out that way there's no gate
access there's no driver or sidewalks to
enter those two sides I probably made an
assumption which was a mistake and I
realized that now but what I was told by
the engineering department when I tried
to close up my right-of-way permit a few
months ago was that my two options were
either to have a licensing agreement
with the city that says that I'll be
responsible for removing the trees if
they decide to put a sidewalk in the
future which I have signed or remove the
trees I think I understand some of the
objections of the people up here or
concerns but I should have known better
and if I have to remove the trees to get
my right-of-way permit closed I will do
so but I would just ask that the
Commission drive by the property or view
the property and look at what's there
and ask themselves is removing all of
those trees what's best for the
neighborhood you know I don't know how
these decisions are made or what things
were taken into account but there was no
malicious intent there was no I'm gonna
try to pull something over obviously I
knew that at some point in time I was
going to build a house on this residence
and the city would be involved so it
wasn't like something could be hidden or
or whatnot so that's to the extent that
I can explain the best that I can again
I apologize for not being prepared I was
I was completely under the impression
that I had this
part of the engineering department when
I walked in the door today mr.
Commissioner Levasseur I'm gonna make a
motion I'm gonna move that we adopt the
second resolution which approves the
proposed Laysan agreement as drafted the
motion by Commissioner Levasseur is
there a second I'll second that
second by Commissioner Gibbs discussion
mr. Douglas yes thank you very I would
like to hear from the city attorney on
the subject of setting a precedent here
applicants request is a you know
sensible but I mean what risk do we face
that if we just grant the right-of-way
permit here that everybody else is gonna
come to us with the same request and we
will not have a legal leg to stand on
the devil would be in the detail if you
move forward and approve this particular
license agreement you're approving this
agreement with the attachment and the
plan that's laid out for this particular
piece of property so from a strictly
legal standpoint you're not in any way
obligated to approve the next license
agreement a request that comes down the
road having said that if you choose to
deny the next one
the important thing is going to be
drawing distinctions between this one
and that one as to why you're denying
that one when this one was approved and
so on and so on and so on I mean I think
in addition to the idea of setting
precedent to having to have him to
approve just generally this kind of a
license agreement I can't speak for mr.
Callahan but my sense in talking with
him over the months that we've been
trying to to hammer out the details of
the license agreement I think he's been
just as concerned about the precedent of
basically allowing someone to come in
and ask for forgiveness instead of
asking for
the first place unless I'm understanding
the layout of the property I'm looking
over it at the City Attorney's diagram
site plan of the it'll been just as easy
to create the screening that you want to
create inside the property line just
moving it right inside the property line
it's not like we're talking about a
50-foot right away here we're talking
about a typical right-of-way that is
around the streets and I think if you
wanted to be in compliance with the
rules and not install them on the right
away and still had that screening you
could have just moved them just a few
feet into the interior of the property
and you would have been okay and
unfortunately that didn't happen I'll
just add that you know it's an
interesting point as well because I
think you know these trees weren't cheap
to plant right and I think if one had
the intention of you know misleading the
city or purposefully asking for
forgiveness later they wouldn't make a
twenty thirty thousand dollar mistake
like that sixty thousand so I don't
think that you know to me I well there's
good argument about precedent there's
good argument about you know managing
one-off agreements I think that the
intention you know to me I mean unless
some you know people just have a lot of
money to throw around I don't see
someone spending $60,000 at the chance I
could see planning one or two trees and
trying to mark their spot or prevent a
sidewalk down the road we saw that on
you know Sunnybrook but I don't think
that you would see that you know in this
particular situation where you know
sixty thousand dollar investment was
made whether it was the right decision
or not where they're complied or not
it's a whole different question or
whether someone was you know ignorant I
don't think it was you know malfeasance
here Commission Levasseur I do see this
as kind of an unusual situation unusual
property so I'm a little bit less
concerned with the precedent certainly
we don't want people simply as you as
you say seeking forgiveness as opposed
to permission
we do have unusual circumstances here so
I'd be inclined to make that exception
I do think also that these trees enhance
the quality of the neighborhood and so
that plays into it as well we sugar but
I mean I just feel like we're in a
really tight spot here because I mean
this is not a private property rights
issue right this is basically the
private claiming of public space that is
intended for public use whether it was a
mistake or intentional that's still the
issue that's before us it's a unique
plot of land I recognize that but is it
the alternative to the license agreement
is that we order the trees be taking out
we're gonna reap the whirlwind for that
or we crab which you know which that's
what frustrates me about this like I
don't want to send the signal like
planet ramp public property able to give
it to you so that's that I I'm
struggling with this I don't like the
concept whether it was intentional or an
accident that if you plant a tree on
public property the city will then this
you've got the city pinned against the
wall and they're just gonna license the
property to you but it is a weird
property I'll grant that mr. macey it's
also it's not that the city doesn't want
trees any on our right-of-way in any way
like if their permission had been sought
it feels like we could some of those
trees could have been placed or some
other types of trees could've been
placed in approximately that same area
on the right-of-way but perhaps not
exactly where they were and I don't I
agree I don't know if it was intentional
or not I do think that history is a
builder in the city makes it more likely
that he did know the rules but
regardless I think we have the rules and
I I'm I'm not inclined to allow
something that we just just because we
have a weakness for trees allow people
to break the rules for that reason sure
Douglas so when someone comes to the
city and when one wants to plant a tree
in the right-of-way
huh how does that phrasing my question
well how does that quote that that
process transpire and are there
circumstances here or elsewhere where
somebody could have you know planted
trees in the right-of-way that we find
acceptable is is the problem the
selection of materials are there
specimens here that we would allow and
in fact welcome in the right-of-way yes
more than likely so we have issues with
the placement they've they've basically
blocked off all fifteen feet of the
grass area with randomly spaced trees
not at a set spacing that gives most of
the trees the adequate room to grow and
mature properly so eventually some of
these trees are gonna be crowded out by
other trees that are probably stronger
and healthier and some of them will have
to be removed or they'll suffer the root
systems will intermingle and probably
compete with each other for water so we
have some rules about how closely spaced
trees to gather on the city right away
especially ones that we're going to be
taking care of so we have some issue
with the spacing and the location and of
course the type of trees we typically
don't like conifers pine trees in the
right away because of the things that
the root systems can do for adjacent
pavements if somebody wanted to plant
trees if this property owner came to us
and said I really want to plant some
trees around my property we would have
worked to find places for his trees at a
spacing that was agreeable to the city
and we would have accepted those trees
once they were planted as ours and
taking care of them in the future we can
work with anybody to to get trees
planted in the right away.the DPS plants
trees for property owners who want a
tree plant in there right away I
understand the price went up this year
but the city does all the work to plant
that tree in the right way and all you
have to do is pay them upfront and they
go and order the tree from a set of a
dozen types of trees for you if they're
available and plants it for you
we make sure that there's no utilities
in the way there's no gas lines there's
no water lines that can be you know we
do we pull the MIS Diggs so that we know
that
we're not going to run into some
something underground that caused a
problem if we were to dig up and break
it so there's a lot of work to going
into getting that tree planted if we do
it we don't know that occurred but we
didn't find that anything was broken out
there at this particular site we can
issue permits to people to plant trees
and we could have probably issued an
amendment to the permit that was pulled
for this property to an trees to it when
a new house is built in Royal Oak it's
not on an unusual lot like this if there
is no tree on the frontage we require
the property owner add uh tree as part
of that permit and we tell them you know
you can choose from these type of trees
these are the ones that you can plant
and we will accept it as our tree later
on and if it dies will replant it part
of our tree planting program so this is
not a particular property there were
trees on all three frontages in the past
so we didn't require any trees to be
headed to the permit when this was
initially put together I just wonder if
there's any stomach at the table for
having the property owner removed the
conifers and the multi stem plants that
those materials that are not acceptable
to us and allowing any species that are
acceptable to us planted in the
right-of-way I have some stomach sorry I
have some stomach for it okay I don't
know what those numbers are as well I
mean maybe they're all conifers and no
just looking at yeah they're not no
there are other trees that can read it a
lot better the green ones that look like
conifers are kind of frozen though those
other round things are what are some are
not kind of a Jewish trees yeah but the
church makes reference to trees that
under the diameter column that are an M
which is multiple trunks matter there
are those trees potentially an issue -
I'm not quite sure some of them are
probably like birch trees that typically
come
in a clump then and that's the nature of
birch trees and and you know I don't
think birch trees are on our list of
right away trees but I've seen different
types of birch trees planted in the
right-of-way and they seem to be healthy
so long as they have enough space around
them to to grow there we're amazing yes
that's the other thing to Commission
Douglass's point is that I think one of
the main concerns is the spacing so
maybe also removing somebody to sum that
word that cause a problem with the
spacing we're concerned for that reason
as well I mean I also I have some
stomach for thinking about this for
another meeting perhaps now that mr.
fried knows that were perhaps not
inclined to go forward the licensing
agreement you can bring forth this best
arguments and also maybe work with mr.
Callaghan I want to identifying the
trees that would be most likely to be
kept if we were gonna break it down in
that way it's another thought I think
for me but there's a couple different
arguments that I heard you know I don't
know if we want to take a parcel of land
and start dictating like a you know
spending two hours on a private piece of
property because it's also a use of
public time to say this tree that tree
not this one this and that well okay
fine it is on public land that is true
I understand the argument that you know
are we setting precedent I don't know
that I feel that way given the
uniqueness of the property then the only
other argument is are we setting
precedent where you just plant it and
then pave it over or ask for forgiveness
later you know I think in this
particular case with the license
agreement if we do decide to do anything
put a sidewalk do whatever they're gone
so you know there is no permanency to
the fact that you know if we make a
decision to move forward with the
license agreement
I think looking at these trees I'm on I
don't know when the Google views were
captured September 2018 it looks like
these trees are already decent-sized and
that was two years ago
a year and a half ago so I haven't had
any complaints from any of the neighbors
that have come out and cried foul and
said you know these trees are terrible
and I don't like the screening and
they're causing problems for my
neighborhood so I agree that it puts us
in a predicament but I think this whole
you know parcel that we're talking about
is in itself predicament it's just
unique so I don't know that we want to
spend hours and hours and hours but just
call the vote and see over time there's
a motion amazing and so maybe no
complaints from these neighbors but we
have had complaints in the past from
people who are not happy about us
pulling up their full-grown trees to put
sidewalks there and this is asking for
that to happen again if we ever decide
to put sidewalks here we're giving them
the license to this I understand the
license allows us now and they can't
complain but I think once all those full
trees are up you're gonna hear a lot of
neighbors start complaining if we pull
them up and put a sidewalk in there I
mean this is there's a reason we have a
process and the rules is a reason we
have a right away this is our own land
so I mean I agree with Commissioner
Dewback you can call the vote part of my
suggestion on delay is if he doesn't
have the votes you might prefer to wait
well there's a motion on the table so
someone doesn't withdraw it then we have
to I mean votes gonna happen but I'm not
inclined to withdraw the motion now that
doesn't mean we have to move on the
first resolution if my motion fails
that's true that's a true statement
that's a true statement so I guess are
there any other comments discussion so
the motion is to grant the right-of-way
license
knowing that they have to maintain it
and if there was ever a decision to that
we need access to that right away then
the homeowner has to make the
appropriate accommodations remove the
trees do whatever at their own expense
Dave can I ask you a question if the
motion fails to grant the license
agreement what is the scenario if nobody
wants to take up the other motions the
trees are allowed to stay and they
become ours and it's done with or what I
can do that to you I mean something's
gonna happen
mmm I think I think we're gonna postpone
the decision exactly the Matt's point
American no question so if if we grant
the license agreement and some of these
trees fail who's responsible for
maintaining them or if they need pruning
does that mean we are going to go in or
we are going to mean how do we go to the
property owner and say that fir tree is
dead remove it that's a lot more work on
staffs time to do that but the License
Agreement says that we have the right to
tell him that a tree has died and he has
so many days to remove it under the
license agreement otherwise DPS will
have it scheduled to be removed cut down
whatever pruned whatever type of
maintenance needs to be done to it and
the bill goes to the property owner okay
so they can turn around and bill bill it
to them under the license agreement all
right thanks mr. Levasseur and just to
follow up on that last point would the
License Agreement provide that any such
bill would be a lien against the
property
sorry mom I don't think it specifically
does know I didn't see a lien provision
in there though could something be put
in there in that respect that provides a
lien could be placed and it could be
collected in the same manner as property
taxes that would be an easy add yes yeah
I will make that supplemental motion to
my motion amended motion to the original
motion by Commissioner Levasseur there a
second second by Commissioner Gibbs so
right now we're not the the motion is
that in the event that the previous
motion has passed it will include
language that puts any cost as a lien on
the property so it's not actually
approving the just changing the
agreement for approval all right I'll
call for the vote all those in favor say
aye aye those opposed it even amendment
to the motion passes
which brings us back to the original
motion which includes the agreement that
we have in front of us with the language
that any cost spared by the city to
enforce the contract will be put as a
lien onto the property any other
discussion mr. Douglas I think that
sways me in favor of the motion I think
that's a think that's a good move I'm I
just feel like I'm in between a rock and
a hard place here and not happy at
having been painted into this corner all
right I'll call for the vote all those
in favor say aye
aye those opposed no I see a hand of the
nose so the motion passes so we'll enter
into the license agreement so we'll make
the revision and then go from there yep
if I could mayor mr. far head before you
leave is there any issue as far as you
know right now with the certificate of
occupancy for the house or not I think
there was a new there was a question at
one time so I was told that the only
issue would be refunding the
right-of-way bond which is $7,500 of the
engineering department is currently
holding but not holding up a certificate
of occupancy now okay I just wanted to
check so that's all that is correct
thank you mr. fry it thank you alrighty
this brings us to item number 12 which
is the 2020 public right away ordinance
first reading okay how you stack those
ones well I had to do something and go
out with a bang you know this has
actually been in the works for several
years this code 650 which was originally
called the street and sidewalk ordinance
was a 56 page behemoth of things that
you couldn't enforce rules that are
superseded by state law
poorly written violation clauses that
couldn't be you couldn't get anyone to
issue a ticket for a violation say if
you went out and planted 60 trees in
there right away you couldn't issue a
ticket for that because the violation
Clause was so poorly written we kind of
like took a very deep dive into this and
and got rid of got it down to 24 pages
and even we kept some things in here
such as the new rec newsrack ordinance
which which we haven't had to use in the
last eight years because print is dead
from what I've been told and nobody has
newspapers or Flyers or even the Metro
Times they'd rather be in somebody's
doorway instead of in a box on a street
and and so we listed 11 major changes to
this code that changed it so
significantly that it
better what we did is we said we we
rewrote it instead of amending it to a
to get rid of the old code and adopt
this new one so I'm here to answer any
questions and I don't know that anybody
went forward and read the old code or
the new code but I'll do my best answer
any questions we've been answering some
questions from residents online about
who's responsible for what because it's
might have been a little bit clearer in
the old code but it it's still there in
the new code our sidewalks goes anyway
so questions for mr. Callahan mr. macey
this was a super boring way to go out
with a bang I would hope that everyone
had taken us home and read it last night
before bed you know several times
several times put you right to sleep
there's nothing that we tried to insert
this into this that's too controversial
we gave the City Engineer some
reasonable some some guidelines that he
can set reasonable policies for how the
right-of-way is used such as giving
people more directions on license
agreements which wasn't written in here
before and now it is setting some
policies about how people landscape the
right of way so that they're not doing
things that we wouldn't that would cause
us problems in the future a lot of
people like to put rocks and bricks and
boulders and timber walls and things out
there that we've kind of ignored in the
past because there was nothing really
clear in the ordinance about those
things and now it's very clear
hopefully that people have some better
direction and some additional policies
will come out of this that will be easy
to enforce and and notify people and I
always want to tell people that whenever
we have a code and there's a set
violation it says yea thou shalt not do
X Y & Z we always give people the
opportunity to fix this first by giving
them a warning in a letter telling me
exactly what the problem is and giving
them a reasonable time to fix it
before we ever issue anybody a violation
citation
is there anything in here mr. Callahan
that you can foresee causing issues with
like grandfathering so somebody did have
something for 20 years
30 years like and all of a sudden now we
make these changes and we're gonna go
through and say oh you know we changed
the rules and clean it up and get it
done can you talk about those situations
maybe or what those situations might
entail well you know we can point out
some some specific examples but what are
what the new code actually better
defines and how somebody can move into
getting a license agreement you know I
can go out and show you a 60 inch
diameter tree that appraoch between a
sidewalk in the street in a very large
area where the property owners built
like a 3-foot wall around it and
certainly it there the homeowner likes
that that retaining wall they're taking
good care of that retaining wall it
doesn't appear to be a problem with the
city's use of the sidewalks or the
street but it's something that we want
to make sure that we're never on the
hook for you come through and do a
sidewalk program or a road improvement
we have to take part of that wall down
to build our street
we shouldn't be obligated to Pam text
dollars money to go and pay to put it
back up because we did not put it there
in the first place so we have a
provision to work with property owners
and get them the proper license
agreement and you know we more than
likely would rebuild that wall but we
would get the property owner to pay for
the portion that we would have to do at
it but and it all depends every
situation is unique every time somebody
does an encroachment or something on
city property we have to evaluate
whether it's a safety concern whether it
prevents us from doing what we need to
do with our own infrastructure and you
know it will be up to the your brand-new
city engineer who's sitting behind me to
take a look at all of these instances
and come back if if there's some sort of
agreement that needs to be drafted you
know we have we worked with the people
to get those things done so it's just
adding some clarity and some formalities
to what we're actually doing today when
these issues pop up and how we resolve
them with the homeowners at least we
more of a rubric and a standard to go to
versus kind of always dealing with
everything on a you know individual
ad-hoc basis or some tools that allow
the City Engineer to enter into
agreements and you know clarify things
so there's no misunderstandings as far
as what we need it doesn't change the
fact like if okay well we want to you
know we could put the wall back someone
built a wall but we're just not gonna
pay for it it's not your wall it's on
city property and here's the process
here's the license agreement and really
formalizing those things we're doing
today yes mr. Macy
a motion by Commissioner Macy second by
Commissioner Bruce discussion I with
none I'll call for the vote
all those in favor say aye those of you
don't know mr. Callahan is retiring
after a very illustrious career 24 years
with the city of Royal Oak 9 as the city
engineer Wow Wow their first trip to Las
Vegas will I take a first trip I have
leave Friday at 5 o'clock but to drive
to California from there to go to a
wedding well you know what I mean
hopefully when you're settled down you
come back for a proper ceremony as
opposed to 10 o'clock at night you know
after this Commissioner Macy said less
than spectacular ordinance change we
appreciate all the work that you've done
it's been a privilege
working with you over the last number of
years and I've learned a lot and you've
kept me on track to some extent and you
know wish you the best in retirement
thank you and please be kind to Kali
alright alright man thanks you this
brings us to our last agenda item
tonight which is item number 13 which is
a city manager executive search update
mr. Gilliam Barron city commissioners I
had reported in our meeting two weeks
ago that we had received over a hundred
applications for the position of city
manager I think the number was a hundred
and fourteen applications and 111 the
actual resumes our consultants of Gov HR
have been working diligently going
through and evaluating and reviewing all
the applications that came in
James Fort Reno from Gabe HR had
developed a series of recommendations
regarding the the pool if you will and
then pursuant to provision in the Open
Meetings Act we did meet in closed
session tonight to review the
qualifications of the candidates that
had submitted their applications and
confidence if the Commission is ready
tonight if you could identify the
candidates that you believe that mr.
Petrino and I should make arrangements
to have interviewed at a future date
that we'll have to work out then we'll
move forward with that again at this
point in time the applicants that we're
talking about we discussed in closed
session have all submitted their
applications in confidence so in terms
of identifying them for purposes of
future interviews I would ask that you
identify them by number that is the
number that we were using in our
discussions in closed session
we'll then follow-up or actually James
will then follow up with those
candidates to confirm that in fact
they're still interested in going
through the interview process if they
are we'll get the interview scheduled
one of the interviews are scheduled the
identities of the candidates will then
become public and any interviews that
the Commission does for those positions
going forward will be held at a public
meeting
I got Commissioner may see and then
Commissioner Levasseur so should I make
sure ok so I move that we move forward
with seeking interviews with candidates
1 3 4 6 7 9 special vesser or say
goodbye Commissioner Levasseur
discussion will start Commissioner
Levasseur thank Commissioner crews I'll
just reiterate what mr. Gilliam
indicated right now we are not
identifying them by name one of these
things where some people may not want it
to be made public that they're pursuing
this position if they accept our
invitation though for interview their
name will be become public they have to
be made public but if any of these six
say no I've changed my mind they will
remain confidential and their names will
not be disclosed yeah all right
Commissioner personally the only thing
that I would add is that we were very
very impressed as was our consultant
with the quality of applicants that
applied we knew that because of the way
we're locusts been going the last couple
of years its financial status exciting
things going on in the neighborhoods in
the in the downtown and so on that we
would get good applicants but we really
really really got some fantastic
applicants so we're fairly confident
that we're going to end up with a very
good city manager all of us are and
it'll be an interesting process to go
through the interview process
this point forward and as commissioner
alabaster says the from this point
forward it will be public but rest
assured we got some really good
applicants so we're very pleased mr.
Macey I'm just gonna follow on both of
those and say the next piece of this
project process as far as we understand
it will be a first round set of
interviews with these six candidates
we're hoping to do them on-site we do
have some some that are closer than
others but we're hoping to get them all
here for that and then we'll do a second
round possibly in the same period of
time and possibly later I think we're
still consultants figuring that out for
us I think it's also important to add to
that that you know as promised you know
our employee groups and our community
members are gonna have the opportunity
to weigh in and provide their thoughts
and input suggestions all of that so we
have that information when we're
especially whittling down the candidates
so how that process exactly at what
point that happens and it's best to
happen we're gonna get a plan from our
consultant and we'll look forward from
there Commissioner D but I just want to
check on that we have this great pool of
candidates which is having an indication
that the consultant has very much been
worth the investment there is some
scuttlebutt about you know that
lengthening the process or whether or
not that's worth it you know why don't
we just post for her and and I think
that the caliber candidates in the
process thus far have been very much
worse than worth in investment I think
that's worth noting that you know we've
kind of paint over that decision and I'm
feel very confident and where we've
landed thus far with input and
leadership I'll just add to just if
there's any questions I mean we had 114
applicants 116 applicants 114 applicants
and the numbers that were given today
aren't and the order of which they
receive these are just ones that you
know you know rose to the top as far as
the the criteria and things that you
know collectively the body had
I've been looking for so the numbers are
irrelevant in fact they're alphabetical
order and all these different things so
there's no significance in the numbers
that were proposed today other than it
means something to us and that in the
labeling for the confidential nature of
it so the motion on the table any other
discussion I'll call for the vote all
those in favor say aye
aye those opposed motion passes all
right that brings us to the end of our
agenda tonight
Commissioner Douglas I'm the leader a
motion by Commissioner Douglas you have
second by Commissioner Gibbs discussion
mr. Levasseur before we do adjourn and
you know throw this at mr. Gilliam is
our consulting expecting us to give up
some proposed dates for interviews at
this point or is that good I handled a
different way next steps I think now
that there's been a motion identifying
the candidates that the Commissioner
would like to interview
I believe mr. patrina will be following
up with them and then confirming that
any or all of those six are still
interested in the interviews and then
once we have an exact number of
candidates for the interviews then your
with the recommendation as to the exact
process for dates
okay so perhaps the next meeting will be
setting those dates if not before yeah
yeah all right motion to adjourn any
other discussion all right I'll call for
the vote all those in favor say aye
aye those opposed motion passes
adjourned
