OUR NEXT GUEST HAS WRITTEN A    
BOOK WITH THE VERY SAME MISSION,
BOOK WITH THE VERY SAME MISSION,
BRINGING HISTORY TO LIFE FOR    
BRINGING HISTORY TO LIFE FOR    
HOOSIERS YOUNG AND OLD.         
HOOSIERS YOUNG AND OLD.         
AND JOINING US IS JIM MADISON,  
AND JOINING US IS JIM MADISON,  
I.U. HISTORIAN.                 
I.U. HISTORIAN.                 
JIM, THANKS FOR COMING IN.      
JIM, THANKS FOR COMING IN.      
>> THANKS FOR BEING HERE.       
>> THANKS FOR BEING HERE.       
>> BEFORE WE GET TO THE BOOK,   
>> BEFORE WE GET TO THE BOOK,   
WHAT DREW YOU TO INDIANA HISTORY
WHAT DREW YOU TO INDIANA HISTORY
IN PARTICULAR?                  
IN PARTICULAR?                  
>> I WISH I COULD SAY I HAD SOME
>> I WISH I COULD SAY I HAD SOME
GRAND BRILLIANT PLAN STARTING   
GRAND BRILLIANT PLAN STARTING   
OUT BUT I DIDN'T.               
OUT BUT I DIDN'T.               
THE I.U. HISTORY DEPARTMENT     
THE I.U. HISTORY DEPARTMENT     
NEEDED SOMEONE TO TEACH A CLASS 
NEEDED SOMEONE TO TEACH A CLASS 
AND I WAS FOR SOME REASONS      
AND I WAS FOR SOME REASONS      
TAPPED ON THE SHOULDER TO DO SO 
TAPPED ON THE SHOULDER TO DO SO 
AND I DID.                      
AND I DID.                      
IT WAS HARD AT FIRST BECAUSE I  
IT WAS HARD AT FIRST BECAUSE I  
DIDN'T KNOW VERY MUCH.          
DIDN'T KNOW VERY MUCH.          
I TELL ALUMNI FROM THOSE YEARS, 
I TELL ALUMNI FROM THOSE YEARS, 
THEY GET A FREE DO-OVER IF THEY 
THEY GET A FREE DO-OVER IF THEY 
WANT TO COME BACK.              
WANT TO COME BACK.              
I HAVE LEARNED A LOT IN 30 YEARS
I HAVE LEARNED A LOT IN 30 YEARS
OF TEACHING INDIANA HISTORY AND 
OF TEACHING INDIANA HISTORY AND 
MUCH IT IS REFLECTED IN THIS    
MUCH IT IS REFLECTED IN THIS    
BOOK.                           
BOOK.                           
>> IT IS "HOOSIERS, A NEW       
>> IT IS "HOOSIERS, A NEW       
HISTORY OF INDIANA."            
HISTORY OF INDIANA."            
THAT WORD "NEW" STRIKES ME.     
THAT WORD "NEW" STRIKES ME.     
WHY NEW HISTORY?                
WHY NEW HISTORY?                
>> THERE IS THE WORD HOOSIERS, I
>> THERE IS THE WORD HOOSIERS, I
FELT LONG AND HARD ABOUT AN     
FELT LONG AND HARD ABOUT AN     
IMAGINATIVE TITLE FOR THIS BOOK 
IMAGINATIVE TITLE FOR THIS BOOK 
AND I CAME UP WITH HOOSIERS.    
AND I CAME UP WITH HOOSIERS.    
THE NEW IS THE IMPORTANT        
THE NEW IS THE IMPORTANT        
QUESTION, DARRYL.               
QUESTION, DARRYL.               
I WROTE A BOOK ON HISTORY 30    
I WROTE A BOOK ON HISTORY 30    
YEARS AGO AND IT IS OLD AND     
YEARS AGO AND IT IS OLD AND     
OUTDATED IN ALL KINDS OF WAYS.  
OUTDATED IN ALL KINDS OF WAYS.  
WHEN I SAT DOWN TO WRITE A NEW  
WHEN I SAT DOWN TO WRITE A NEW  
HISTORY, I REALIZED HOW NEW OUR 
HISTORY, I REALIZED HOW NEW OUR 
HISTORY WAS, HOW OUR 21st       
HISTORY WAS, HOW OUR 21st       
CENTURY PERSPECTIVE OF OUR      
CENTURY PERSPECTIVE OF OUR      
INDIANA PAST IS SO DIFFERENT    
INDIANA PAST IS SO DIFFERENT    
FROM WHAT IT WAS 30 YEARS AGO.  
FROM WHAT IT WAS 30 YEARS AGO.  
AND I'VE TRIED VERY HARD TO     
AND I'VE TRIED VERY HARD TO     
REFLECT WHERE WE ARE NOW, WHERE 
REFLECT WHERE WE ARE NOW, WHERE 
WE'VE BEEN, HOW WE GOT TO WHERE 
WE'VE BEEN, HOW WE GOT TO WHERE 
WE ARE NOW AND ALLOW PEOPLE TO  
WE ARE NOW AND ALLOW PEOPLE TO  
THINK ABOUT THOSE BIG QUESTIONS.
THINK ABOUT THOSE BIG QUESTIONS.
>> I READ SOME OF THE SUMMARIES 
>> I READ SOME OF THE SUMMARIES 
OF THE BOOK, AND IT FOCUSES ON  
OF THE BOOK, AND IT FOCUSES ON  
THESE THREADS THAT CONNECT OUR  
THESE THREADS THAT CONNECT OUR  
CONTEMPORARY HISTORY INTO THE   
CONTEMPORARY HISTORY INTO THE   
DEEPER HISTORY OF INDIANA.      
DEEPER HISTORY OF INDIANA.      
I WAS WONDERING IF YOU COULD    
I WAS WONDERING IF YOU COULD    
SPEAK TO SOME OF THOSE THREADS  
SPEAK TO SOME OF THOSE THREADS  
THAT YOU'VE IDENTIFIED IN YOUR  
THAT YOU'VE IDENTIFIED IN YOUR  
WORK.                           
WORK.                           
>> WELL, THERE ARE THREADS.     
>> WELL, THERE ARE THREADS.     
IN FACT, SOMETIMES I THINK      
IN FACT, SOMETIMES I THINK      
THEY'RE ALMOST STEEL CABLES IN  
THEY'RE ALMOST STEEL CABLES IN  
THE STRENGTH WITH WHICH THE     
THE STRENGTH WITH WHICH THE     
TRADITIONS CONTINUE IN INDIANA. 
TRADITIONS CONTINUE IN INDIANA. 
ONE GOOD EXAMPLE IS PIONEER     
ONE GOOD EXAMPLE IS PIONEER     
DEMOCRACY.                      
DEMOCRACY.                      
IT WAS A DEMOCRACY THAT WAS     
IT WAS A DEMOCRACY THAT WAS     
LIMITED TO WHITE MEN.           
LIMITED TO WHITE MEN.           
WE'VE CHANGED.                  
WE'VE CHANGED.                  
WE'VE ABANDONED THAT NOTION OF  
WE'VE ABANDONED THAT NOTION OF  
DEMOCRACY.                      
DEMOCRACY.                      
BUT WE STILL HAVE A NOTION OF   
BUT WE STILL HAVE A NOTION OF   
DEMOCRACY THAT TENDS TO FAVOR   
DEMOCRACY THAT TENDS TO FAVOR   
GOVERNMENT THAT IS SMALL, THAT  
GOVERNMENT THAT IS SMALL, THAT  
GOVERNMENT IS NOT ACTIVE, THAT  
GOVERNMENT IS NOT ACTIVE, THAT  
GOVERNMENT THAT IS INEXPENSIVE. 
GOVERNMENT THAT IS INEXPENSIVE. 
AND SO WE HAVE IN INDIANA FROM  
AND SO WE HAVE IN INDIANA FROM  
THE VERY BEGINNING DOWN TO THE  
THE VERY BEGINNING DOWN TO THE  
PRESENT A TRADITION OF LOW      
PRESENT A TRADITION OF LOW      
TAXATION.                       
TAXATION.                       
>> CAN YOU SPEAK A LITTLE BIT   
>> CAN YOU SPEAK A LITTLE BIT   
ABOUT THOSE -- THE EARLY YEARS  
ABOUT THOSE -- THE EARLY YEARS  
OF INDIANA HISTORY THAT POINT TO
OF INDIANA HISTORY THAT POINT TO
THAT SENSE OF WHAT GOVERNMENT   
THAT SENSE OF WHAT GOVERNMENT   
SHOULD BE?                      
SHOULD BE?                      
>> WELL, THERE'S AN IRONY HERE  
>> WELL, THERE'S AN IRONY HERE  
BECAUSE WHILE EARLY PIONEERS    
BECAUSE WHILE EARLY PIONEERS    
WANTED INDIVIDUAL FREEDOM,      
WANTED INDIVIDUAL FREEDOM,      
THAT'S THE OPPOSITE OF BIG      
THAT'S THE OPPOSITE OF BIG      
GOVERNMENT, INDIVIDUAL FREEDOM, 
GOVERNMENT, INDIVIDUAL FREEDOM, 
I CAN DO WHATEVER I WANT THEY   
I CAN DO WHATEVER I WANT THEY   
SAID SO LONG AS IT DOES NOT HARM
SAID SO LONG AS IT DOES NOT HARM
MY NEIGHBOR.                    
MY NEIGHBOR.                    
AT THE SAME TIME, THOSE SAME    
AT THE SAME TIME, THOSE SAME    
PIONEERS IN A CONTRADICTORY WAY 
PIONEERS IN A CONTRADICTORY WAY 
WANTED GOVERNMENT TO REMOVE     
WANTED GOVERNMENT TO REMOVE     
NATIVE AMERICANS, WANTED        
NATIVE AMERICANS, WANTED        
GOVERNMENT TO PROVIDE LAND AT   
GOVERNMENT TO PROVIDE LAND AT   
VERY LOW PRICES, WANTED         
VERY LOW PRICES, WANTED         
GOVERNMENT ESPECIALLY TO        
GOVERNMENT ESPECIALLY TO        
CONTRIBUTE TO ECONOMIC          
CONTRIBUTE TO ECONOMIC          
DEVELOPMENT.                    
DEVELOPMENT.                    
THAT'S WHERE WE GET THE EARLY   
THAT'S WHERE WE GET THE EARLY   
CANAL SYSTEM, FOR EXAMPLE.      
CANAL SYSTEM, FOR EXAMPLE.      
IT WAS GOVERNMENT THAT PAID FOR 
IT WAS GOVERNMENT THAT PAID FOR 
THAT.                           
THAT.                           
SO THERE IS A CONTRADICTION HERE
SO THERE IS A CONTRADICTION HERE
BETWEEN THIS NOTION OF SMALL    
BETWEEN THIS NOTION OF SMALL    
GOVERNMENT AND INEXPENSIVE      
GOVERNMENT AND INEXPENSIVE      
GOVERNMENT AND YET EXPECTING    
GOVERNMENT AND YET EXPECTING    
GOVERNMENT TO DO THINGS.        
GOVERNMENT TO DO THINGS.        
>> IN READING SOME OF YOUR      
>> IN READING SOME OF YOUR      
COMMENTS ABOUT YOUR WORK, I'VE  
COMMENTS ABOUT YOUR WORK, I'VE  
SEEN YOU REFERENCING THAT THIS  
SEEN YOU REFERENCING THAT THIS  
WORK HELPS SET UP AN            
WORK HELPS SET UP AN            
UNDERSTANDING OF SOME OF THE    
UNDERSTANDING OF SOME OF THE    
SPECIAL CHALLENGES THAT WE FACE 
SPECIAL CHALLENGES THAT WE FACE 
IN INDIANA TODAY.               
IN INDIANA TODAY.               
WHAT SPECIFICALLY WERE YOU      
WHAT SPECIFICALLY WERE YOU      
ALLUDING TO?                    
ALLUDING TO?                    
>> WELL, I GUESS FOR ME -- AND I
>> WELL, I GUESS FOR ME -- AND I
MAY BE A LITTLE BIASED HERE.    
MAY BE A LITTLE BIASED HERE.    
IT IS EDUCATION.                
IT IS EDUCATION.                
THERE ARE LOTS OF CHALLENGES,   
THERE ARE LOTS OF CHALLENGES,   
BUT FOR ME IT IS EDUCATION.     
BUT FOR ME IT IS EDUCATION.     
WE STILL HAVE NOT CREATED THE   
WE STILL HAVE NOT CREATED THE   
PROMISE IN OUR 1816 CONSTITUTION
PROMISE IN OUR 1816 CONSTITUTION
OF A FREE PUBLIC EDUCATION FOR  
OF A FREE PUBLIC EDUCATION FOR  
EVERYONE AT A HIGH LEVEL OF     
EVERYONE AT A HIGH LEVEL OF     
QUALITY.                        
QUALITY.                        
SO I THINK IT IS EDUCATION.     
SO I THINK IT IS EDUCATION.     
AND WE'VE ALWAYS STRUGGLED WITH 
AND WE'VE ALWAYS STRUGGLED WITH 
THAT.                           
THAT.                           
IT HAS TO DO WITH OUR AVERSION  
IT HAS TO DO WITH OUR AVERSION  
TO BIG GOVERNMENT AND TAXES.    
TO BIG GOVERNMENT AND TAXES.    
IT HAS TO DO ALSO WITH OUR      
IT HAS TO DO ALSO WITH OUR      
NOTION OF INDIVIDUAL FREEDOM.   
NOTION OF INDIVIDUAL FREEDOM.   
WE DON'T WANT OTHER PEOPLE      
WE DON'T WANT OTHER PEOPLE      
INTERFERING TOO MUCH EVEN IN OUR
INTERFERING TOO MUCH EVEN IN OUR
CHILDREN'S LIVES.               
CHILDREN'S LIVES.               
>> AND THE INTERESTING PART FOR 
>> AND THE INTERESTING PART FOR 
ME AS WELL OF THE BOOK AND THE  
ME AS WELL OF THE BOOK AND THE  
PUBLICATION, WE'RE LEADING INTO 
PUBLICATION, WE'RE LEADING INTO 
OUR BICENTENNIAL.               
OUR BICENTENNIAL.               
>> WE ARE.                      
>> WE ARE.                      
>> 2016.                        
>> 2016.                        
YOU ARE PART OF THE COMMISSION. 
YOU ARE PART OF THE COMMISSION. 
>> I AM.                        
>> I AM.                        
>> TALK ABOUT THE RELATIONSHIP  
>> TALK ABOUT THE RELATIONSHIP  
WITH THE BOOK TO THE WORK THAT  
WITH THE BOOK TO THE WORK THAT  
THE COMMISSION IS DOING AND WHAT
THE COMMISSION IS DOING AND WHAT
WE CAN ANTICIPATE SEEING HERE   
WE CAN ANTICIPATE SEEING HERE   
PRETTY SOON.                    
PRETTY SOON.                    
>> THE INDIANA BICENTENNIAL     
>> THE INDIANA BICENTENNIAL     
COMMISSION IS INVOLVED IN ALL   
COMMISSION IS INVOLVED IN ALL   
SORTS OF PROJECTS.              
SORTS OF PROJECTS.              
WE HAVE BEEN WORKING FOR A WHILE
WE HAVE BEEN WORKING FOR A WHILE
NOW TO BE READY BEFORE 2016 SO  
NOW TO BE READY BEFORE 2016 SO  
LOTS AND LOTS OF THINGS ARE     
LOTS AND LOTS OF THINGS ARE     
GOING TO HAPPEN.                
GOING TO HAPPEN.                
WHAT TO ME IS MOST IMPORTANT,   
WHAT TO ME IS MOST IMPORTANT,   
WHAT I'D REALLY LIKE TO HAPPEN  
WHAT I'D REALLY LIKE TO HAPPEN  
IN ADDITION TO THE FUN AND THE  
IN ADDITION TO THE FUN AND THE  
CELEBRATION AND THE HOOHAH, I   
CELEBRATION AND THE HOOHAH, I   
WOULD LIKE TO SEE HOOSIERS      
WOULD LIKE TO SEE HOOSIERS      
THINK, GET TOGETHER AND THINK   
THINK, GET TOGETHER AND THINK   
AND TALK ABOUT THE MOST SERIOUS 
AND TALK ABOUT THE MOST SERIOUS 
ISSUES FACING US.               
ISSUES FACING US.               
AND I'M HOPING THAT MY BOOK     
AND I'M HOPING THAT MY BOOK     
MIGHT BE PART OF THAT           
MIGHT BE PART OF THAT           
CONVERSATION FOR SOME PEOPLE    
CONVERSATION FOR SOME PEOPLE    
BECAUSE I THINK THERE ARE VERY  
BECAUSE I THINK THERE ARE VERY  
SERIOUS ISSUES ON THE TABLE.    
SERIOUS ISSUES ON THE TABLE.    
AND I KNOW AS A HISTORIAN THAT  
AND I KNOW AS A HISTORIAN THAT  
THOSE ISSUES DO HAVE, AS YOU    
THOSE ISSUES DO HAVE, AS YOU    
SAY, THREADS WAY BACK TO THE    
SAY, THREADS WAY BACK TO THE    
19th CENTURY AND THROUGH THE    
19th CENTURY AND THROUGH THE    
EARLY 20th CENTURY.             
EARLY 20th CENTURY.             
>> AND I THINK IT'S IMPORTANT TO
>> AND I THINK IT'S IMPORTANT TO
NOTE THAT WHEN WE ANY ABOUT     
NOTE THAT WHEN WE ANY ABOUT     
COMMISSION WORK, WE OFTEN FOCUS 
COMMISSION WORK, WE OFTEN FOCUS 
AROUND INDIANAPOLIS.            
AROUND INDIANAPOLIS.            
BUT THIS COMMISSION WORK IS     
BUT THIS COMMISSION WORK IS     
TRULY A STATEWIDE FOCUS.        
TRULY A STATEWIDE FOCUS.        
>> IT IS VERY MUCH A STATEWIDE  
>> IT IS VERY MUCH A STATEWIDE  
FOCUS.                          
FOCUS.                          
THERE ARE MEMBERS FROM ALL PARTS
THERE ARE MEMBERS FROM ALL PARTS
OF THE STATE ON THE COMMISSION. 
OF THE STATE ON THE COMMISSION. 
THE COMMISSION HAS ENDORSED     
THE COMMISSION HAS ENDORSED     
PROJECTS THAT MOST OF THE       
PROJECTS THAT MOST OF THE       
COUNTIES, THERE WILL BE THINGS  
COUNTIES, THERE WILL BE THINGS  
HAPPENING IN ALL 92 COUNTIES.   
HAPPENING IN ALL 92 COUNTIES.   
THERE'S GOING TO BE A LOT OF    
THERE'S GOING TO BE A LOT OF    
GRASSROOTS ACTIVITY.            
GRASSROOTS ACTIVITY.            
>> WELL, JIM, THANK YOU FOR     
>> WELL, JIM, THANK YOU FOR     
COMING IN AND TALKING ABOUT YOUR
