 
:

### Interview With Jesus:

### Humility

### By

### Jesus (AJ Miller) &

### Mary Magdalene (Mary Luck)

### Session 5

Published by

Divine Truth, Australia at Smashwords

http://www.divinetruth.com/

Copyright 2015 Divine Truth

Smashwords Edition, License Notes

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### This ebook is a transcript of an interview that took place between Jesus (also known as AJ Miller) and Mary Magdalene (also known as Mary Luck) on 5th September 2012 in Wondai, Australia on the subject of humility. In this interview Jesus and Mary discuss how we resist humility, including living in fear, doubt, seeking power and glory, jealousy, commiseration, and false humility. This interview follows on from "Interview with Jesus: Humility Session 1", Interview with Jesus: Humility Session 2", Interview with Jesus: Humility Session 3" and Interview with Jesus: Humility Session 4".

### Reminder From Jesus & Mary

### Jesus and Mary would like to remind you that any document produced by Divine Truth containing any information from Jesus, Mary or any other person includes only a portion of God's Truth that they have personally discovered.

### It does not and cannot contain the entire of God's Truth since God's Truth is infinite and humankind will forever continue to discover more of God's Truth as we progress in receiving more of God's Love.

### Please remember that due to these limitations information contained within this document may need to be revised in the future.

### Many other ebooks have been published by Divine Truth, including ebooks translated into a variety of different languages.

### Please visit <http://www.Smashwords.com/profile/view/DivineTruth> or www.divinetruth.com for further information.

### Additional sessions on the subject in this book can be found on www.Smashwords.com/profile/view/DivineTruth

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### Table of Contents

1. Introduction

2. How we resist humility: living in fear

2.1. Living in fear prevents desire and happiness

2.2. Living in fear supports the maintenance of false beliefs

2.3. People in a complete state of love never respond in fear

2.4. Fear is not real from God's perspective

2.4.1. An example of a boy who's in a violent situation

2.5. The stages involved in recognising and releasing our fear

2.6. Addictions and false beliefs keep us from feeling our fear

2.7. Taking action challenges our fears

2.7.1. Releasing fear involves softening into fear, rather than conquering it

2.7.2. Desires can draw us through our fear

3. How we resist humility: doubt

3.1. Doubt is created by a lack of humility to fear, and is triggered by taking action

3.1.1. An example of a couple having arguments

3.2. Erroneous societal beliefs about doubt

3.2.1. Children learn rapidly because they are not in a state of doubt

4. How we resist humility: seeking power, position, glory, respect or value

4.1. An example of musicians seeking glory and attention

4.1.1. The effects of seeking power, glory and attention on other people

4.2. How to release injuries surrounding seeking power, glory and attention

4.2.1. An example of family members seeking power, glory and respect

5. How we resist humility: jealousy

5.1. Emotions that drive jealousy

5.2. Acknowledging our jealousy and other dark emotions

5.3. Jealousy can be about our perceptions rather than reality

6. How we resist humility: commiseration

6.1. Commiseration results from not wanting to take personal responsibility for our creations

6.2. Commiseration creates stagnation

6.3. Differences between commiseration and compassion

7. How we resist humility: false humility

7.1. Emotions that drive false humility

7.2. If we're truly humble our lives will change

7.3. True humility feels edgy, uncomfortable and like being alive

7.4. Differences between humility and false humility

8. Closing Words

8.1. AJ describes his personal experiences in becoming humble

8.2. The relationship between humility, truth and love

8.2.1. The importance of humility

Appendix: Humility Sessions 4-5 Outline

1. Introduction

**Mary:** Okay, well today's my fifth in the series of interviews. Last week we started talking about the resistances to humility. So today's interview is just wrapping up the resistances that we have to humility.

**AJ:** Yeah if everyone remembers, last week we mentioned six resistances to humility, and today we'll probably cover another five or six resistances to humility. But I don't feel they're the only resistances that we have. [00:01:06.13]

**Mary:** How would you describe the list that we're covering in these interviews?

**AJ:** Well, they're the common problems that people have with regard to becoming humble, but I don't feel that they're the only problems that we have. In the interview we've tried to generalise a little about the underlying issues, and to give people enough feedback so that they can understand where their resistances are when it comes to their own humility. [00:01:38.00]

**Mary:** Yeah, and my feeling for the interview series has been that I'd love to really help people understand what humility is from both sides. We spent a few interviews just describing the quality of humility and how it impacts on our life and I also feel that by understanding the common resistances we have to humility, we'll begin to see when we're not being humble. So hopefully we're giving people some really practical tips and information about how to live in more humility.

**AJ:** Yeah, and if people remember that the point of these discussions is that humility opens up this doorway into truth. Without humility you cannot emotionally absorb more truth in your soul. Even though you might be listening to truth, and listening to more truth, listening to more truth, it's impossible to actually absorb it while the soul remains in this state of having a lack of humility. As soon as the soul opens up to humility, now the listening is translated into beginning to feel the truth. And once you begin to feel the truth then that opens up the gateway to receiving love.

**AJ:** So without this feeling of humility, rather than a facade of humility, or without going through this process of opening up completely to truth, it's impossible to actually absorb new truth. And I find it interesting how people spend a lot of their day-to-day life trying to discover truth, while at the same time they spend a lot of their day-to-day life suppressing the emotions that they have, which cause them to be closed towards receiving new truth. It's like many of them are intellectually working directly against the emotions that are present in the soul. [00:03:31.05]

**Mary:** Setting up a battle internally.

**AJ:** Yeah, and that's why people can come along and hear truth after truth after truth after truth but it never really touches their life. It's only going to touch our life when we become humble and actually get rid of the resistances to the truth, and allow this truth to become absorbed in the soul. It is only when the truth is absorbed in the soul that we will act upon it. Before then we will talk about it, and we'll listen about it, we might be fascinated by it, but at the end of the day we're never going to act upon it. And if we don't act upon it, our life will never change. It's only by acting upon it that our life changes. The drive to act upon truth comes from the underlying development of this quality of humility. [00:04:25.11]

2. How we resist humility: living in fear

**Mary:** Okay well, in terms of resistances to humility so far I think we've discussed arrogance, anger towards others, hatred, and the facade, or the ego. So to start off today I wanted to ask you about fear, and specifically this idea of living in fear.

**AJ:** Yes, I feel fear is one of the most difficult emotions that people have to process, and also one of the biggest resistances that a person has to being humble. Today it's taken as a negative if you feel afraid about anything, and yet the world and people in it are full of fear about everything. But we continuously try to satisfy this fear by creating safety, or security, which is really a way of making out that the fear is not there. And as soon as the safety or security is taken away the fear is exposed.

**AJ:** If persons looked at that, what we're really doing is living in fear. We're not actually feeling the emotion of fear, we're honouring our fear, holding it within us, and then asking the environment to pander to the fear that we have inside of ourselves. If we truly want to be free, and also truly want to be humble, we need to actually go through the process of feeling the fear rather than living in the fear.

**AJ:** And this is very, very difficult if we are justifying to ourselves that the fear exists, or we're minimising to ourselves, "Ah, yes, I have some fear but it doesn't really have a large impact on my life." Or we're shifting the blame of our fear, "You caused my fear all the time," or "You made me afraid and so now I can be angry with you," or "Now I can just reject you from my life because you've made me afraid." And these kinds of attitudes towards our fear cause us to deny our fear. One of the points we generally covered last week was denial, and now we're seeing that if we deny our fear we will live in it. We will actually create a life where all of our fears, or as many of them as possible, are satisfied by some kind of safety or security thing that we need to go through.

**AJ:** For example, on the Earth today you've got people who are afraid of financial insecurity, so they create a financial buffer. In the Western world many people are very interested in not living week to week anymore because they feel they need this financial buffer. And so they save up money and they place that money in the bank, and of course this allows our funds to be misused in all sorts of ways, but it is all driven by this underlying fear. And if you take the money away from them, out of the bank, it's a major disaster in their life, which means that the fear itself hasn't actually gone, it's still present. In fact we finish up attracting events to trigger the presence of the fear inside of ourselves because God wants us to release it. God wants us to have no fear inside of our soul.

**AJ:** But while we have this fear, and we're living in it and justifying it and minimising it and shifting the blame of it onto other people, we are in reality placing our fear as our god. Instead of God being the God, and all of God's Laws being important, our fear becomes the most important thing. And we're willing to do anything else in our life until our fear is exposed. And as soon as our fear is exposed, our fear becomes god, and whatever integrity we had just flew out the window, whatever courage we had just flew out the window, and whatever of these other very beautiful qualities that we have, love, kindness, compassion and all these other qualities, all of them fly out the window as well while we're living in this place. In the end we're just living honouring our own fear rather than actually feeling the fear itself and going through the process of releasing it by experiencing it properly. [00:09:02.12]

2.1. Living in fear prevents desire and happiness

**Mary:** It sounds like you're saying that when I live in fear I allow the avoidance of my fear, or the prevention of my fear, to guide and direct just about everything. And it's only when I've done that enough that fear is absent, that then my higher ideals might come into play; my desire for God, my desire to love or be good, or to give.

**AJ:** Yeah. I think that it's good to say at this point that when we live in our fear, desire is also suppressed. And this is a very important thing because desire is the source of most of our happiness. If we're suppressing our desire because we're afraid, then of course we're also suppressing the potential of our own happiness because we're afraid.

**AJ:** For example, if a person's living in a relationship that they're not happy with, but they're afraid to leave it because of financial or physical security reasons, then they're going to be a very unhappy, suppressed individual while they remain in that particular relationship, unless the source of their unhappiness changes. In other words unless the other person in the relationship changes what they do, they are going to remain very unhappy. They've now made their life entirely dependent upon the other person's choice to be loving, which is not a very wise thing to do in the long run. They've also made their own happiness almost impossible because they're suppressing their fear of the financial insecurity, of the physical insecurity; they're suppressing this fear by staying. But when you suppress one emotion, like fear, you are also going to suppress desire. Fear itself actually suppresses desire.

**AJ:** While I am so afraid, I am not going to feel any desire. This is one reason why many women in their relationships do not feel sexual desire; because they have a lot of deep underlying fears that they're suppressing through the relationship, such as financial and physical security issues. They're using the relationship to suppress those particular things, but while their fear is being suppressed their desire, even their sexual desire, will also be suppressed.

**AJ:** So living in fear and using the external environment to suppress the feeling of fear, rather than just going through and experiencing the feeling of fear is a source of much unhappiness on the planet. It's also a major impediment to a person being humble to receiving any truth because they want to justify the retaining of their own fear every single time. You think of how many conversations we've had where you've wanted to justify why you should be afraid and why I should honour that fear that you have. [00:11:58.01]

**Mary:** Absolutely.

**AJ:** And the majority of people that we meet are very similar; they want to justify why they shouldn't have to be loving in certain circumstances. They want to justify why they shouldn't have to do certain things. Even things that are blatantly unloving, they will justify because their fear has become their god.

**Mary:** Yes, certainly I relate to that from my own experience. You mentioned that so many people are unhappy and something that surprises me as I go on and I am beginning to face more fears is how much I really equated happiness with feeling comfortable and safe. I was actually quite unhappy but I understood this feeling to be happiness. And it's only as I begin to challenge more fears and strive for humility that I find, "Oh no, there's joy in happiness. There's this other quality that was missing in my life. I feel more alive." And many people I observe are just walking through life thinking, "Oh this is happiness," and it's almost like they've settled for something less than a life because they just equate safety with happiness. [00:13:09.20]

**AJ:** Yes, and also fear is a great excuse for not acting. A lot of our joy comes from our actions, from what we decide to do with our life and what we finish up creating. And when we are in a process of not feeling our fear but living in our fear, we finish up suppressing this desire to act. We finish up having a life where we are very stagnant, where we do the same things every day, and it's quite boring. We only do what's safe. We don't extend ourselves in any way. We aren't able to grow. And if we do not grow we can't be happy either.

2.2. Living in fear supports the maintenance of false beliefs

**AJ:** In addition there's this other problem, that fear prevents us from accepting truth because fear tells us that the false belief is true. And it doesn't matter what fear we have; whenever we have this feeling of fear it is telling us that the false belief is true. What I often see is that people are constantly justifying to themselves that their fear is true. They're telling themselves that their fear is the truth. Most women tell themselves that they should be afraid of men, as if that is a truth. And they act like that's a truth.

**AJ:** Now many of these same women who are afraid have never been harmed by men. There are some women who are afraid because they have actually been harmed by a man, and of course all the other women look at that and then they go, "Ah, they've been harmed so I could be harmed," not understanding how harm is actually created or any of those kinds of things. And in the process of doing that they decide that their fear is justified; "It's important to be afraid of men; you must hold on this fear of men."

**AJ:** And many men do the same thing with women of course, with different beliefs, but they're just based on fear. Many men who have an attractive woman as a wife or a partner are afraid that she will go off with somebody else. Underlying all of that is their own fear that they don't actually have the worth to keep the woman that they're with, and the suppression of this fear causes them to live in a state of jealousy. We see these kinds of things happening all the time. This is because the fear itself causes us to be totally blocked to truth because we're actually believing a "different truth" than what is God's Truth. And I put the "different truth" in quotation marks because it's not really a truth.

**AJ:** Even right down to the fear of death; we believe that death is a traumatic experience. Many people are afraid because they do not believe there is any such thing as a life after death, and they see death as the termination of their complete existence. And the other people, who do not believe that, have no determined or clear viewpoint of what their life after death would be like, and so they are very afraid of it. As a result of that we fear death so much we'll do almost anything to avoid death. The majority of people will do anything to avoid death, even if it means allowing themselves to be raped or lying or stealing or cheating or all of these other things, if they're faced with death, they'll do it most of the time. And if they won't do it when faced with their own death, they will certainly do it when faced with the death of someone they love.

**AJ:** This is all an indication of a false belief that they're living in, every single day. People who live in fear, who live in false beliefs every day, are easily manipulated. An external person or a society can manipulate that individual into doing whatever the society or external person wants them to do. So it's not a state of freedom either. It's a state where you're allowing manipulation because you're afraid. All a person has to do is trigger that fear or expose that fear, and all of a sudden you'll act a certain way.

**AJ:** You and I have noticed recently how many adverts there are on television for cleaners that clean 99.99% of the germs. Like, there's still 0.01% of the germs, and it only takes one germ to get into your body and at the end of the day you're still going to get something! (Laughs) But there's this feeling in people of fear, so what's the fear? The fear of being sick, the fear of having your life interrupted through sickness of whatever, not understanding the truth that all sickness is created through something's that's going on with denial of the soul. Not understanding that truth they then decide, "Oh that's the product I have to buy because that's going to give me the greatest feeling of security," not realising in that moment they're buying a product that is only to avoid their fear of becoming sick. [00:18:21.06]

2.3. People in a complete state of love never respond in fear

**Mary:** Can we rewind a little bit to some of things you've just mentioned? When you say that fear is not real and then at another point you talked about people justifying their fear, are you saying that when we understand truth nothing adverse will happen in our life?

**AJ:** No, I'm not saying that. If we are in a state of complete love, a state of at-onement with God, that means we are also in a state of understanding the truth about a lot of things. It's not understanding the truth about everything at that point because there are still many truths to learn, but once we're in a state of complete love, fear itself does not exist to us. It doesn't mean that we won't attract events because of other people and what they choose to do. Events might come to us that the average person would be afraid of but we will just not feel afraid of them. And therefore we will attract fewer events. We may still have events happening to us that other people would be afraid of, but the reality is that we would not feel afraid in exactly the same circumstances.

**AJ:** If there's a spirit-influenced person in a rage with us, with a knife in their hand and looking like they're going to do something with that knife, we won't feel afraid in that state. We'll know exactly the things that we need to say or do to ensure that the situation remains safe. And if we can't maintain the safety we're not afraid of our death. We're not afraid of being hurt because we can heal ourselves, but we're also not afraid of dying because we know there's no such thing as dying, and we're not afraid of the pain either because we know we can manage pain in that state.

**AJ:** So there is literally nothing to be afraid of in that state. We're not afraid of violence anymore. Someone can threaten us with violence but it has no effect on us. If we're living in fear it's completely different. In the same situation if we're living in fear we'd go, "He's got a knife. I need something to protect myself. I need to run or I need to attack," and often this is what does cause us to attack. If I've got a gun I'll pull it out and shoot him because he was going to attack me. These are all actions based around our fear of our own death, our fear of being harmed or someone we love being harmed, and these fears are now driving our actions. [00:20:52.01]

**Mary:** Basically from what you're saying, when we justify fear we will never reach the state that you're describing now because we will never enter into a process of feeling it; we will live in it.

**AJ:** Yeah.

2.4. Fear is not real from God's perspective

**Mary:** Is that what you mean when you say fear is not real? Because certainly it's an emotion that exists, isn't it?

**AJ:** Yes. Please understand when I say that fear is not real, I'm not saying that it's not an emotion that exists within the person, because it certainly is an emotion that exists in the person. It's just not real from God's perspective. The emotion was created by a false belief or a lack of love some time in their history. From God's perspective the emotion of fear was created by a false belief perpetrated against the child, or an emotion of a lack of love perpetrated towards the child that causes the child to now believe that its fear is real. From God's perspective the fear is not real. It's not the truth. There's nothing the child actually needs to be afraid of. Nothing at all, in fact. But the child is going to feel afraid while it's had these unloving and untruthful things perpetrated against it until it releases it.

**AJ:** So the fear exists in reality inside the individual, but from God's perspective it is not the truth about the situation. However the person believes that it's the truth about the situation. [00:22:18.06]

**Mary:** Yeah, I see that there's an error in perception, can we call it that? I really want to hone in on this issue.

**AJ:** Well, one of the reasons why is that you're still emotionally going through this process of coming to accept that the fear is not real.

**Mary:** And I see it reflected around me also. So we can move on from there...

**AJ:** No, no, it's an important question because most people believe the fear is real. Therefore they act upon it, they live in it. They do not do anything about experiencing it. They don't go through the emotional experience of feeling it. [00:22:54.20]

2.4.1. An example of a boy who's in a violent situation

**Mary:** You could give the example of the small boy who is in a situation where there's a lack of love, perhaps there's violence in his parents around him. You mentioned that from God's perspective he has nothing to fear.

**AJ:** No.

**Mary:** Okay. What is happening in that situation?

**AJ:** If the boy is harmed in any way, then most of the time his spirit friends will help him go out of his body while he's being harmed, so there'll be very little physical pain associated with the harm. Secondly, God is always trying to help the individual themselves, even if they are a child, to avoid the pain of being harmed by others. That's something that God will support the spirits who are guiding the child in doing. In addition if the child does pass, he will be in a very loving place in the spirit world. The child has nothing to fear about its future. He has no need to fear that he's not going to be loved. Unfortunately the child believes he's not going to be loved because he's been told he's not going to be loved by the parents. And because of the parents' belief systems that there is no afterlife or there is no future, of course the child also feels that as a truth.

**AJ:** And so the child is afraid in a violent situation because he has already been taught the truth, soul to soul, from the parents to him. Naturally he is now afraid of the situation. If the child had no emotional injuries in the situation, if he did not have this belief that if he died he was going to be dead forever, if he did not have the belief that he would be unloved, then the child would not actually feel afraid in the situation of violence. That's the reality. The reason why the child does feel afraid is that he already has all of these beliefs inside of him that he obtained from the parents from the moment of conception onwards. All of these beliefs colour the child's perspective of what is real.

**AJ:** What the child sees as real is not what God sees as real. There's usually nothing the child can do about it as a child, but there are certainly many things we can do about it as an adult. As an adult we can choose to experience the fears that have been placed upon us by our parents and our environment during the time we were growing up, we can choose to experience them and release them, and not live in them anymore. That will give us this sense of complete freedom and help us to absorb the truth. And the truth will set us free. The truth will set us free from any of these feelings that cause us to feel like we are constrained in any way. It will also allow us to follow our desires and passions without restriction, because fear places a restriction.

**AJ:** And we even need to allow ourselves to see that the only reason the child is afraid in any situation is that it already has the same societal and parental false beliefs that the parents and society have within themselves. These false beliefs have also now entered the child, and that is the reason why the child is afraid. If we could as adults release these fear-based emotions, the next generation of children would have less fear, and eventually we'd get to a generation of children that had no fear whatsoever; even if somebody was angry or upset, they'd still not be afraid. They would not even expect anybody to ever attack them and as a result of that, there'd be fewer people who would attack them as well.

**AJ:** They would be in this complete state of freedom. That's the gift we can give to the next generation if we choose to experience our fear rather than live in it. When we live in it, we have no way to give a gift to the next generation. In fact we're giving the next generation the same impediment that we ourselves have been given by the previous generation. [00:27:09.21]

2.5. The stages involved in recognising and releasing our fear

**Mary:** Okay, well obviously from what we've discussed many people are living in fear and many of us, such as myself, were living in a lot of fear and not even recognising that the avoidance of fear was guiding everything in my life. What are some clues or tips? If I'm such a person and I hear Jesus talking about living in fear, how would I come to recognise that I might be living in fear?

**AJ:** Well, with all emotions that exist within us, we have to go through a process of realisation of what's within us. Now the only way that we can really do that is firstly intellectually accepting that there is probably some fear within us. If at the beginning we believe there is no fear within us, I feel that that is a state of complete delusion, and many people on the planet are living in that state of complete delusion. But once we allow even just the intellectual thought that perhaps there is fear within us, the way that God's Laws work is that our soul then starts to attract, through the law, events that show us what our fears actually are, at least at an intellectual level. [00:28:31.20]

**AJ:** Once our fears are exposed at an intellectual level, we can now at least be conscious that we have them. And once we start looking at the fact that we have them, we can now start allowing ourselves to feel about having them and allow ourselves to have the experience of having them. The problem there unfortunately is that, because of society and our parents denying their own fears as well, we've been taught from a very young age that the important thing in life is to deny that you have any fear. And so once we start feeling or experiencing the fear that we actually have, we are probably going to go through a process of being attacked by the world around us and our parental system, even as an adult. Because they will say, "No, you shouldn't go down that track. That's a dangerous place to go," and so forth.

**AJ:** But the reality is that we need to go there if we're going to experience our fear. We have to go through this whole process of reducing all of these impediments to feeling our own fear, and these impediments are all a series of false beliefs that we have imbibed from society and the world around us that are now a part of us, false beliefs such as, "I'm not able to feel all of my fear. My fear will completely overwhelm me and I'll be so emotionally distraught that I'll feel like I'm going crazy." A fear of going nuts is also going to cause us to not allow ourselves to feel our fear.

**AJ:** Then there are also a lot of emotions about being humiliated when we're in a state of fear, and often people do choose to humiliate us when we feel fear. In addition, our body is generally shaking when we feel fear and most people around us who are terrified of feeling their own fear, look at a person whose body is shaking and go, "If you haven't got some kind of disease then there's something wrong with you." They want to associate it with some kind of motor neuron disease rather than actually go, "No, you're actually having a feeling of fear," People get very stressed out around you and you've got to go through all of those impediments of all the people and what they think about your feeling of your fear.

**AJ:** Once you've done all of that, then you'll probably get to your fear. And that is a process, and it's a very different process for each individual because each individual has had a different history. Each individual has had a different home life, and a different society life, and it depends on which country we are in as to our viewpoints, what we suppressed and what is allowed and so forth. It just depends upon the environment that we've grown up in as to how we get to that point. But it will go through those processes that I've mentioned. [00:31:23.01]

2.6. Addictions and false beliefs keep us from feeling our fear

**Mary:** You've just described all of the different resistances we might have to experiencing fear; essentially other fears of what would happen.

**AJ:** Yeah. Many of them will be beliefs as well, which have entered us as an emotional belief. We believe it so strongly that we have an emotional reaction when somebody challenges that belief.

**Mary:** All of those beliefs that we have around fear, are they the things that cause us to justify fear or live in fear?

**AJ:** Yes. Our false belief systems around our fear are the things that cause our fear to be completely locked down. And so instead of experiencing the fear we then choose to live in it. What I mean by that is that the fear is really the underlying emotion that needs to be felt and then on top of that we have created a whole series of addictions so that we don't have to face these fears. And these addictions can be anything from substances right the way through to emotions, and relationships even, an entire life to avoid the fear.

**AJ:** In fact most people when they first realise this have actually created an entire life in addiction to avoid their fears. And once you start going through and breaking all of that down of course your life has to change, and most people are terrified of that as well because some people like their life as it is because it helps them avoid all of their fears! (Laughter) [00:32:52.14]

**Mary:** They think it's happy when really they just feel comfortable and safe.

**AJ:** Yeah, that's right, it's all about safety and security. If you ask the average woman in a relationship what's the primary reason why she's in a relationship, then for many women it would be a feeling of safety and security.

**Mary:** If we were all that honest, perhaps.

**AJ:** If we're all honest, yeah. The problem with fear of course is that very few people are honest about it. And they'll justify all sorts of things. We had a discussion last night where a person was shutting themselves down completely, shutting down every desire, and they're telling themselves they don't know why they feel numb. The reason they feel numb is that they are unwilling to feel their fear. They know all this fear is in there now, and now they're trying to shut it all down. And so they suppress their fear, and that shuts down everything; it shuts down desire, and now they feel numb. They're just going through life in a bit of a daze, and it's even a very angry state surrounding their fear; not wanting to go into the fear and then going, "Oh, you know, everything is pretty hard to see." And then you start developing doubts as well because this is what fear does. You start saying, "I don't know if it's the truth anymore. I don't know if it's the right thing to do." And off we go down this track.

**AJ:** And before we know it we've convinced ourselves to take a completely different course of action in our life other than a passionate course of action, to have a passionate life. And the main reason we've done that has got nothing to do with the fact that we like it. It's got everything to do with the fact of how terrified we are and what we want to avoid. [00:34:28.08]

2.7. Taking action challenges our fears

**Mary:** From what you're saying, if I were to launch into not living my life in fear but dealing with fear, I would be looking at these addictions but I would be taking action. Is that another way that we can start to challenge ourselves to experience fear rather than live in it?

**AJ:** Yeah. I feel it's one of the best ways of experiencing fear actually; to write down a list of everything that you intellectually know you're afraid of, and to be frank, the majority of the list, if we're honest with ourselves, will turn out to be emotions rather than actual events or circumstances or situations. Most of our fears actually revolve around certain emotions that we are afraid of experiencing that we feel we cannot experience, that we will be overwhelmed or we won't be able to cope with the underlying feeling. The majority of our fears are all about emotions in the end.

**AJ:** We could write down all of our fears about situations that we're afraid of, and then choose every single day to have one of those situations occur, particularly when these situations are not what I would classify to be damaging to us. If you're afraid of rape I'm not suggesting that you go and get yourself raped just so that you can feel the fear of being raped. But if you're afraid of opening your heart to a person, then I would definitely suggest that you choose a person who you feel attracted to and start developing a relationship and let yourself open your heart and see where it takes you. [00:36:11.17]

**AJ:** We obviously have fears where it would be unwise to attract the situation to confront the fear, but there are literally hundreds of fears that we have where we can completely attract the situation. And it would be positive for us to attract the situation and actually desire the situation so that we worked through the potential fear.

2.7.1. Releasing fear involves softening into fear, rather than conquering it

**AJ:** But we shouldn't go through it in a way of, "I'm going to conquer this fear," feeling. This is the way people often go through it. They have a situation and it's all about conquering fear. No, it's not. It's all about experiencing the fear, which is a softening to the fear, not a feeling of anger towards the fear and that you're going control it, survive and suppress it.

**AJ:** If we go into this process of confronting our fears with the other attitude, this angry attitude of conquering the fear, then in the end it won't benefit us at all. We'll still have all the fears inside of us after we've finished all of the events we've had on our list.

**AJ:** Even if we're just afraid of something like speaking up in a situation with men or women, then when the situation comes up where I have a different opinion and there's a group of men or women there, I'd speak up and let what happens happen, and go, "Ah, that's the reason why I'm so afraid of this particular event, because I got attacked there and I was condescended to there and I don't want to feel those feelings."

**AJ:** And we can literally make a list of hundreds of our fears if we wanted to and actually go through the process of creating situations or being conscious of situations we are already creating, because that's usually the case anyway, and allowing ourselves to actually feel and experience the fear and the reason why we have it in those particular situations. And that's very, very different than going into it with an attitude, "I'm going to conquer this fear so I'm going to become a public speaker. I'm afraid of public speaking, I'm going to become a public speaker no matter how hard it is." That kind of feeling is not softening to the experience of your fear.

**AJ:** Once you experience your fear of public speaking, for example, you will realise what it's all about. And most of the time it is about people thinking you're an idiot, the way people look at you, how they're condescend towards you as you're speaking, all those other things; they're all to do with people's perception and opinion of you. Once you release those fears you'll be able to get up in front of an audience who are throwing eggs at you and you'll still be able to say what you want to say without having any fear. [00:38:47.10]

**Mary:** I suppose, as you're speaking about these things, that I'm reflecting on my own experience even in the last four years, and my own attitudes to fear and my living in fear. It very much feels like when I recognised even intellectually that I had so much fear in me, I did go into this place knowing, "Okay I've got to deal with it," and it was almost an anger about having fear, and a bullying of myself to get through experiences. And I got through some experiences and I didn't grow at all and I've had to have many more experiences of the same type in order to really soften into the experience. And now I feel like I'm even less afraid of experiences and events, it's like a peeling back. I'm getting through some of those fears and now I'm left with this very raw terror of actual emotions inside of me.

**AJ:** Yeah. And when we confront our fears, that's what it's going to be like. In the end we'll go through this angry place probably where we want to control and confront them that way. And then we'll realise that we never released anything. And then we'll get to the point where we soften to them and allow ourselves to be out of control, and then we allow ourself to experience it. [00:40:09.14]

**Mary:** It's about remaining present during the experience.

**AJ:** Yeah. I feel that's where most people will go in the same direction eventually. I see a lot of people who believe they have no fear at all, they're in complete denial of it, or they acknowledge their fears without having any desire to actually feel their way through them. Both of those places are a complete lack of humility, and they're also living in the fear. So every single day your life will be creating things to actually begin to expose this fear to yourself or you've actually created an entire life to prevent anything from being exposed to yourself.

2.7.2. Desires can draw us through our fear

**Mary:** And this final question on fear, obviously it's a big theme for me, but you mentioned the magic kind of relationship between fear and desire. And when we live in fear we're basically desire-less. But something that I'd love your input on, which I'm recognising lately, is that when I'm led by desire into experiences then my fear is released from me more naturally. If I decide, for example with public speaking, "I'm afraid of public speaking so I'm just going to go and do it," and get up there and do it, nothing much seems to happen. But if I feel in my heart and I think, "You know I'd really love to share Divine Truth with people..." [00:41:35.11]

**AJ:** Or, "I'd really love to share the subject of cooking with people."

**Mary:** Yeah, or whatever it is.

**AJ:** Bike riding, or how to make a car, or whatever the subject is.

**Mary:** "And I've got this idea of how to do that. It's going to involve public speaking," but if I go into it, led by a desire that's more loving, my fear seems to exit me more naturally.

**AJ:** That is only the case under one circumstance though, and that is when the desire is greater than the fear. If our fear is greater than our desire, our desires will be completely suppressed by the fear. We will not act upon them. What we need to do is grow our desires enough and, through understanding the truth about fear, lessen our fear enough so that our desire exceeds our fear. Once our desire exceeds our fear, we will definitely go ahead and do something that we're afraid of. And our fear is no longer our god. What we desire becomes more important to us than what we fear. [00:42:38.05]

**Mary:** That's the magic sliding scale, isn't it, because many people are frozen with desire under fear?

**AJ:** That's correct.

**Mary:** Is the answer to grow desire?

**AJ:** Well, it's to do both. It's always to do both. Grow the desire so that you feel your desire, you feel passionate about your desire, you see how important your desire is, you see what it might give you, in other words you're going to have to have some faith about the future and where your desire will take you, and you're going to have some trust in that, so you develop these qualities that help support your desire. And then at the same time you start chipping away at the untruth related to your fear. You need to chip away at it to the extent that your fear starts going down and your desire starts going up.

**AJ:** Once they pass that equilibrium point and the desire exceeds the fear, now you will act. And it will be a natural action. It won't be something you've been pushing yourself into doing, trying hard to do, but it will be a natural action that can be taken. [00:43:48.04]

**Mary:** Thank you.

**AJ:** Fear is a big, big block to humility. In fact if you look at many of the other things we've discussed, like anger, for example, that all comes from fear anyway. If you look at hatred; that all comes from fear. Many of these blocks to humility are actually fear-based in nature. I think the next one you're going to raise is fear-based in nature as well.

3. How we resist humility: doubt

**Mary:** Well yes, that's what I was going to raise related to fear. This is doubt, which often we don't necessarily associate with a fearful experience. So my question is, what is doubt?

**AJ:** I don't know whether doubt is a feeling. I feel more like doubt is a state that we place ourselves in, or to be more specific, that our fear places us in, in order to prevent us from taking actions. In other words we often doubt when we're in a situation where we don't know what to do, we don't know what action to take, and most of the time we're in that place because there is seemingly no good outcome from any of the possible actions. A situation or circumstance appears where we're faced with a choice or decision, there appears to be no choice that will end up with a happy or joyful outcome for us, and so we do not want to make any choice. We go into a state of inaction. We don't want to take a decision just in case that decision may cause our situation to become even worse.

**AJ:** And when we do not see any potential positive for any of our choices or decisions, we then decide to support the state of inaction. And doubt causes us to be able to support the state of inaction. We don't have to act upon anything when we're in the state of doubt and we don't have to get ourselves out of the state of doubt. In fact we will have all sorts of justifications to ourselves in the state of doubt. We will say to ourselves, "Ah, it's impossible to know the truth about that," or, "No, it's impossible to act upon that because no matter what happens it's going to turn out bad." We don't see any light at the end of the tunnel, if you like. In fact doubt is closely related to the emotion of hope in the sense that if we feel hopeless we will often create many doubts to support our hopelessness. When we have hope, it actually causes us to have a desire to act in one direction. But when there is no hope, we often have no idea what to do then, no idea what actions we can take. [00:46:32.22]

**Mary:** Would you say that hope is related to faith?

**AJ:** Certainly. Faith, hope, love are all very, very closely related to each other, along with courage, integrity and other emotions. All of what the human race views as these positive emotions are very closely related to each other in that they support each other. Doubt is one of these emotions that supports our fear and so it causes us to be indecisive and we finish up being unable to make choices that will produce positive, or actually any outcomes in our life.

**Mary:** From what you're saying it sounds like doubt is a place we go to when we want to avoid any emotional experience.

**AJ:** And avoid any action. In that place of doubt we attract other people who have the same doubts. I don't know if anybody's ever noticed that but that's normally what happens. When you start expressing and feeling the doubts that you actually have, all of a sudden there's heaps of spirits and people on Earth who just gather around you and say, "Yeah, it is like that, isn't it?" And, "Yeah, that's how I feel too." So now we have a support group for our doubt, which is a support group for us to have no action. I often see many groups that have been created on Earth that are actually supporting each other to have no action; to remain in a state of doubt, just to talk and talk and talk and talk without doing anything. [00:48:04.23]

3.1. Doubt is created by a lack of humility to fear, and is triggered by taking action

**Mary:** Are you saying that when we're in a state of doubt we can't ever reach a resolution? Is that inherent in this state?

**AJ:** Well, I feel that the fastest way to trigger doubt is to act. Taking an action will actually help us with our doubt. However we need to understand what the underlying cause of our doubt is. The underlying cause of our doubt is our resistance, a lack of humility towards our own fear. That's the underlying cause of doubt. It's a resistance or a lack of humility towards taking action in our life, to being responsible for our personal life.

**AJ:** Now God is trying to teach us constantly to take responsibility for our personal life and we're often in this state where we feel like, "Oh if I do that then this will happen, and I don't like that outcome. If I do that, this will happen, and I don't like that outcome. If I do that this will happen and I don't like that outcome either. So it's better for me just to go, 'I don't know what to do,'" and then I don't have to choose any of those potential outcomes.

3.1.1. An example of a couple having arguments

**AJ:** I can give a more practical situation. You might be in a relationship where you're having lots of fights and arguments. Fights and arguments are always caused by at least one of the persons in the relationship not wanting to be humble, not wanting to look at the actual emotion that exists within themselves. And so in this relationship we fight, we fight and we fight. Obviously we like fighting. [00:49:38.04]

**Mary:** Or we wouldn't do it?

**AJ:** Or we wouldn't do it. And one of the reasons we like fighting is that fighting gets us out of acting differently. We don't have to do something different. It's something that we're comfortable with, and we don't have to do anything different. We don't have to come to a resolution of why we are fighting. And doubt causes us to avoid the underlying reasons as to why we're fighting. Unfortunately, many people in a relationship focus on the problem being the fight and the subject of the fight rather than seeing that actually it's all about the avoidance of specific emotions inside of themselves that they're in fear of feeling. Their inability to make a different choice is due to their doubt. They don't know what different choice they can make only because they don't like the potential outcomes of the different choices.

**AJ:** For example, you're fighting and if you choose differently you could choose to walk away. Why don't you walk away? There's got to be a reason. It will turn out to be uncomfortable for you. So what do you choose to do? You could sit there and take the other person's rage and feel how bad that feels. But why don't you want to do that? "Oh, because that means that I'll be humiliated or somebody will be harming me, and I want to defend myself, I want to be rebellious to that." I don't like that outcome.

**AJ:** And I could choose to separate from the person. "Oh, but then all my emotional insecurities and all my financial insecurities are all triggered; that doesn't seem like a very good outcome." So what am I left with? Fighting. And I'll stay fighting for as long as it takes for me to realise that I have another choice. But I don't want to take any of those choices. I'd rather doubt that those choices will ever lead anywhere. So I say, "Oh that won't work. That won't work. That won't work. That won't work," and I'm left with fighting. And I like that. [00:51:41.01]

**Mary:** So you're really saying perpetual fighting is being in a state of doubt?

**AJ:** Well it's about resistance to taking another action. The only reason we would resist taking another action is that we're afraid. The only reason we don't want to act is that we're afraid, and in between the two feelings, the fear and the fighting, is our doubt that any other action will actually fix the problem.

**Mary:** I see.

**AJ:** We don't believe the actual problem will be fixed. We have a feeling of hopelessness associated with the problem actually being repaired, and we keep doing the same thing over and over - the definition of stupidity: doing the same thing over and over again. We keep doing it because we do not wish to take another action, and therefore we lack humility. [00:52:32.11]

3.2. Erroneous societal beliefs about doubt

**Mary:** Okay. A couple more questions about doubt. In this post-modernist world I've heard it said that doubt is actually a good thing.

**AJ:** (Laughs) Yeah, doubt has become an attractive, bohemian lifestyle attribute, basically.

**Mary:** A mark of your intellect.

**AJ:** A mark of a person's intellectual prowess and philosophical state. And the reality is, no, it has just masked a whole heap of fears that the majority of those people do not want to face. They don't want to face that they don't know the answers. Or they don't want to face that the answers are not very pleasant, for example. We can then go into a state of, "Oh, maybe this is true, maybe that's true, but I don't know." When I don't know I don't have to make any decision. I don't have to make any choice. I don't actually have to do something to fix the problem. I can just keep remaining in this place for as long as it takes. For as long as it takes is often our entire life, unfortunately.

**AJ:** And this is how the world stays in a state of very little change, because the majority of people love to feel that there is no solution because a solution requires them to change, and they don't want to change. They're afraid of change. Why are they afraid of change? Because they're afraid of all the emotions involved in change. And so they then go into a state of, "I doubt that there's any solution. Now I can live in this state of hopelessness and justify it completely to myself as a state of inaction and therefore nothing around me will change, the world won't change either in that state." And I could talk about it, philosophise about how the world is and isn't it terrible how it is, and yet I am a primary contributor by remaining in my fear to taking action and by justifying my doubt to myself. [00:54:27.00]

**Mary:** Yeah. I often see that the idea of having a firm belief is considered to be naive and that doubt is somehow seen to be synonymous with questioning. And from what you're saying, questioning and doubt are two very different things?

**AJ:** Yeah, doubt is a place where you've already made up your mind. It's not a questioning attitude. You've already made up your mind there is no good outcome. There is no outcome that isn't going to trigger a fear that you have inside of yourself, and so you've already made up your mind as to what the truth is, and that there is no truth on the particular issue. That's what you've actually decided inside of yourself when you're in a state of doubt. You've already decided there is no truth and you're just trying to look for some justification of that being true. (Laughter)

**Mary:** So it's the opposite of asking a question really.

**AJ:** It's the opposite of asking a question.

3.2.1. Children learn rapidly because they are not in a state of doubt

**AJ:** Look at how a child learns. The reason a child learns so rapidly is that a child has no doubt to fight with through the process of learning. Generally it has very little fear associated with learning and therefore it creates no doubt. It creates no desire to not act. It's going to act upon what it learns. A child knows that. Every single day it acts on what it learns from the moment it gets up.

**AJ:** Look at how a child learns to walk. It gets up, wiggles, wobbles, wobbles, wiggles, and wobbles, bang! Hits its head, cries, feels the emotion; it's not afraid of being hurt. It's not afraid of falling down the stairs; even though it can't walk it's still not afraid of falling down the stairs. And it falls down the stairs and it bumps and bounces. It's got all these injuries and bruises but it gets up again every single time because it's just released the emotion associated with it and it still has no fear. [00:56:20.14]

**Mary:** It doesn't sit there and say, "I doubt whether I was created to walk." (Laughs)

**AJ:** Yeah. "I doubt whether I was created to walk because I'm having so many injuries while it's happening." It doesn't say that at all. It doesn't use any intellectual process like that. Instead it allows itself to go through a process. It stands, wobbles, falls over, gets hurt, and even when it gets hurt it doesn't hold onto the hurt. It just has a big cry, usually mum or dad gives it a hug as well, and gets a bit of love in the process. And five minutes later where is it again? In the same situation standing up again, often in the same dangerous situation standing up again, and having the same dangerous effect. It processes its hurt every single time and eventually it learns how to walk. Once it learns how to walk it's got confidence and usually this happens within a period of three months or less for the average child. In three months, its life has changed.

**AJ:** Now if, as adults, we had the same action as that, we would learn very rapidly and if we had that attitude we would also do very many more powerful things than we are currently doing. The problem is that the majority of us don't do that. We are so afraid of being hurt and the child isn't. The child gets a hurt, bang, hurts itself, has a big cry, it's all gone. The hurt's even gone. It can go and play and laugh after it's been hurt and after it's had that cry, because it has released the fear associated with it. And once it's done that, it then acts again, acts again, acts again. It continually acts. And we grow up thinking we're now adults and we're all bohemian and... [00:58:07.10]

**Mary:** Worldly.

**AJ:** Worldly, and we've got all of these lovely qualities and one of them is our philosophical doubt and we hold on to this as if it's some kind of sign of development of our maturity and sometimes a sign of our growth. But the reality is that it's a sign that we're in a state where we do not want to act and we do not want to make a decision. That's the sign. [00:58:31.22]

**Mary:** And no growth ever happens...

**AJ:** Growth cannot happen. In this state of doubt, we lack humility to every other emotion in that state. We even lack the humility to feeling our emotions of a lack of hope, for example. A feeling of "No matter what I do, I'll fail. No matter what I do, I will be unhappy." Now these are very strong feelings of grief that exist within the average person that we get to not feel because we can stay in this state of doubt and philosophise about our state of doubt in order to avoid those emotions.

**Mary:** If I found myself in a state of doubt, I would need to recognise that I'm actually just avoiding some other emotion that I'm afraid of?

**AJ:** Doubt is an addiction covering our fear. We need to see it as such. It's something that we're addicted to so that we do not have to act. It allows us to remain in two or three or five or ten or fifteen or twenty or a hundred minds (Laughs) and never make a final choice or decision. Many of us are totally afraid of making final choices and decisions. When we made decisions when young, oftentimes if it was the wrong decision in terms of society's viewpoint or our parent's viewpoint, we got severely punished, many times violently. So we have a lot of fear of violence associated with our desire to doubt. [01:00:00.10]

4. How we resist humility: seeking power, position, glory, respect or value

**Mary:** Okay. The next topic is also fairly meaty (Laughs).

**AJ:** As they all are, generally. We have what we believe are good reasons for not being humble usually. (Laughs)

**Mary:** Yes, absolutely. (Laughs) And I can feel the resistance; even as you're answering some of the questions it brings things up in me and I think, "Oh, yes, there's my resistance to humility, right there!" Well the next one I wanted to talk to you about was a group of things; it's about seeking power, seeking position, glory, respect or value. It seems to me that many of us are taught by society or our families that we should seek at least one of those things, if not all of them. [01:01:02.19]

**AJ:** Yeah. I think the problem is deeper than that though, babe. I feel that the problem really comes from most of those things not being present in our life, particularly during our childhood. For example, when we're children we're often taught that because the parent is bigger than us they have power over us. And the parent wants the child to do its will, the parent's will, because the parent generally does not respect the free will of the child.

**AJ:** And so the child feels a feeling of powerlessness. In addition the parent in that state is already in a state of powerlessness themselves and that emotion has also entered the child. So the child's got two problems. Firstly it's got the emotion that the parent has, that it's powerless, which probably came from its parents and the environment that they grew up in. In addition to that, the parent takes power over the child, which further exacerbates this particular problem inside of them emotionally.

**AJ:** And so the child is feeling powerless, and a child who's feeling powerless will seek power elsewhere. If they're powerless with a parent, they will seek power elsewhere. If they did not have respect of the parent, they will seek respect elsewhere. If they did not have the feeling of worth from the parent, they will seek worth elsewhere. If the parent was jealous of them, they will seek positive emotions elsewhere. All of these particular things, our seeking power, glory, position, wealth and so forth, all of these seeking emotions that people have that they believe drives their desires are not pure because they're driven by the underlying lack-based emotion, the opposite emotion that exists within the individual. These emotions drive so much unloving behaviour on this planet because we're unwilling to feel the hurt of the deeper emotion, the grief associated with the deeper emotion.

**AJ:** We have a grief associated with powerlessness, we're afraid to feel that grief, so we have a layer of fear over the top of that grief, and then we enter the addiction of seeking power so that we don't have to feel the fear associated with a lack of power, for example. All of those emotions you mentioned, they all have the same relationship. [01:03:31.04]

**Mary:** When we seek power, glory, value, respect outside of ourselves, is that always a resistance to humility?

**AJ:** Yes. Always.

**Mary:** We never do that in a pure state?

**AJ:** No. A person who's truly humble never seeks any of these things. Those things might come to that person, but the person doesn't seek them. There's a difference between seeking them or desiring them than their coming through a natural process. For example, if you are passionate in a certain field of endeavour and you are so passionate that you finish up discovering new things that the world has never seen before, then it's highly likely that you will finish up gaining the respect and the honour and other emotions from other people because they honour your achievement, but not because you were driven to get it. A person who's truly humble and in a state of true desire and love will actually not be doing it because they want to get that power or position, rather they'll be doing it because it's their love; it's what they love doing. And because they love doing it, it happens. Now that is a state of humility. A state of a lack of humility is seeking prominence, power, glory, attention, approval and so forth, by taking specific actions in order to get those particular things.

4.1. An example of musicians seeking glory and attention

**AJ:** We see this happening with a lot of people who want to be musical or professional singers, who want that kind of glory and attention. They are driven by very, very dark unhealed emotions associated with a lack of respect, a lack of attention, a lack of approval. Instead of feeling those emotions, they are driven to get the attention that they desire. And some of them we know are willing to sacrifice anything for it. They'll sacrifice their own sexual integrity, they'll sacrifice their relationships, they'll sacrifice their personal self in terms of their looking after themselves physically and emotionally. They'll take drugs if the people they want the approval from are taking drugs. They'll do anything that their environment dictates if they want to be successful.

**AJ:** This is how much people are willing to sacrifice inside of themselves in order to seek these particular emotions, which indicates how high the level of grief associated with not having these particular feelings comes from their childhood that they're unwilling to feel, that they don't have any humility towards. [01:06:14.20]

**Mary:** So that's the relationship with humility; we would be avoiding it. Through taking these actions, we're avoiding quite a lot of emotion.

**AJ:** Yes. Every one of these actions is an addiction to help us avoid our fear associated with the grief, the deep grief that every one of these emotions and desires are being driven by. It's our desire to not feel powerless that causes us to seek the power. It's our desire to not feel the lack of glory or honour in our life that most probably occurred in our childhood that causes us now to seek glory and honour.

**AJ:** A person who's humble doesn't seek those things, they just engage their desire for love, they love what they do and if glory comes along, it comes along. But if it doesn't come along, they're not disappointed because they're motivated by their desire to do what their love is.

**Mary:** It occurs to me that we might see two people leading seemingly very similar lives in terms of the respect or the power or the value they have in people's eyes, and yet one could be in a very humble state and another in a complete state of addiction and a lack of humility. [01:07:36.08]

**AJ:** Yes. You see this a lot in the music industry, where sometimes you meet very humble people who just love their music; they love just producing it. They love creating it, they just enjoy playing it. Even if they're not getting paid they still play it, they just love doing it, and that's the way it is. They're often very humble people, they're not trying to prove anything, they're not trying to sell anything. They're not trying to make money out of it, they're not trying to get attention or approval or glory from it and they're just such beautiful people to be around while they're playing their music. They're not into drugs and they're not into some kind of support of the profession in terms of getting spirit help through some kind of addiction. And these are rare people but when you do see them, you can feel that they are in that place.

**AJ:** Then you often meet others who maybe have the same amount of glory, the same amount of attention, the same amount of approval, but they are driven totally by lust for those particular things. And it's a terrible thing to be with those kinds of persons generally. [01:08:42.14]

**Mary:** You say that it's a terrible thing to be with those kinds of persons, but they are receiving a lot of attention from people. Why do we see this phenomenon, when someone who's very humble might gain success and someone who has a complete lack of humility might also gain success? What is the phenomenon that's occurring there?

**AJ:** Well, the person who lacks humility is gaining success through the unhealed addictions of the people who support their success. Many of the people who support the person who wants glory, for example, are looking for glory themselves and they want to honour a person in that regard. They want glory themselves, they realise they can't do it, so they attach themselves to somebody who they personally feel will do it. They honour that person, give that person their funds, attention and time and honour them in order to avoid their own emotions.

**AJ:** This is a very common thing, as you know. In addition the person who's in, say, the music industry, will often have a lot of quite dark emotions of anger, rage, grief and all those kind of emotions, which they express through their music. And these kinds of emotions attract people with the same kinds of emotions to listen to their particular music. And often the people who are supporting the musician feel, "Oh they must know me because that's exactly how I feel." They have all these emotional longings towards the individual, which feeds the addiction for power or glory or attention or approval in the person.

**AJ:** That's very different to the humble person because the humble person's not worried about any of those things. A humble person's not creating his music so that everybody can listen to it; he's creating his music because he loves creating his music. He's not doing it because of the desire of attention and approval he gets, he likes the fact that people want to listen to his music, but he doesn't view that as a sense of his own worth. In other words he has worth even if nobody listens to his music. And the people who listen to his music are generally of a much wider audience. Instead of having specific emotional addictions they have a wide variety of emotional addictions, but they're not all honed in one or two or three places. [01:11:06.15]

**Mary:** They're not necessarily having their emotional addiction satisfied through their association with the singer, for example.

**AJ:** They might have their emotional addictions satisfied through the music he creates, but not through the singer himself. Not through some kind of strange personal relationship with the individual that they don't even know, as they would with a person who lacks humility.

4.1.1. The effects of seeking power, glory and attention on other people

**Mary:** Sure. So then for this person who's not humble, who's seeking to avoid a lot of things through getting glory and attention, what effects can it have on the people that they are interacting with? You mentioned that this addictive relationship can form but, say with children or other people in their environment, what kind of things does it create? [01:11:53.10]

**AJ:** Well generally the people seeking these kind of emotions are very narcissistic. They lead a very self-absorbed life. If they have children, for example, the children will feel very neglected and not very honoured, and they will often grow up with exactly the same emotion of course that the parent has been seeking all of its life. The sad thing about it is that these kinds of people generally can't hold relationships well, they can't hold friendships well; everything in their life, aside from the glory or attention or approval they get, is pretty much a mess. And this is why many people who have very public lives have very messy private lives; because there is a whole heap of addictions supporting their public life that they don't get met in private.

**AJ:** Oftentimes there's a lot of unhappiness in their life, which then causes them to seek these things even more. And oftentimes they eventually finish up, by the time they pass, feeling very alone because the reality is that very few people can emotionally support them throughout their life. It's common for a narcissistic person to continue getting friends; they get new friends, new friends, new friends; they're chewing up friends like they're going out of fashion, and sooner or later they end up with very, very few friends as a result, or people who are just friends because of some addiction that is met. [01:13:25.20]

**Mary:** Yeah, sure. You mentioned earlier about the example of the narcissistic singer and you were saying those kinds of people are quite unpleasant to be around. And it occurred to me that that's because you don't want to enter an addictive relationship with them, so you feel it as a demand or an oppressive feeling to be around them. [01:13:45.14]

**AJ:** Whereas their fans would love to be around them because there would be a co-dependent addiction that gets met inside of the fans by having some kind of association with that person. Their fans would actually feel very different to what I feel about being with the same person.

**Mary:** And that led me to think about a child of that sort of a person. They obviously don't enter the world seeking an addictive relationship, so they must also feel quite similar.

**AJ:** They will feel very similar. The child will find it very difficult to have a relationship with that person. Yeah. Very difficult to have a fulfilling relationship.

**Mary:** And I imagine feel quite oppressed.

**AJ:** They would feel oppressed, and also neglected, unloved, unwanted, uncared for, many, many different emotions. And this is why many of the children of people who have been wealthy, powerful, or popular have a lot of deep grief to go through before they can become stable emotionally. [01:14:45.09]

**Mary:** Yeah. Is that also why we often see substance abuse in those kinds of situations?

**AJ:** Yes. Substance abuse is another layer of adding physical addictions to the process, besides the emotional addictions.

**Mary:** And avoiding the oppression of the parent or the abuse situation.

**AJ:** Yeah. In trying to avoid the oppression of the parent, you want something that helps you avoid the emotion of how unloved you feel, how unwanted you feel, how pushed around and powerless you feel in the relationship. [01:15:23.19]

**Mary:** Okay. It sounds like in this set of resistances to humility that we only give of ourselves under very specific conditions, if we were in that state. Is that true?

**AJ:** Yes. A person who's seeking power, glory, attention, position, approval, is only ever going to give in a situation where they'll get those particular things. In other words, it's an emotional bartering system that they enter with every single individual. If you're not prepared to enter the barter with them, you'll never be their friend. That's the reality. They cannot love you; they do not love anybody actually. They only love the feeling of power, position, glory, attention, approval. That's what they love.

**AJ:** Similar to how a person who's living in fear has made fear their god, a person who's living in these things has made these things, glory, attention, and approval, their god. And they'll do anything to get that glory, attention and approval. It's impossible to have a relationship with integrity with such a person because they will always sacrifice the relationship for some kind of attention or approval or power. It's impossible to have a fulfilling, long-term relationship with the individual unless you're totally willing to do exactly what their addiction demands. [01:16:46.01]

4.2. How to release injuries surrounding seeking power, glory and attention

**Mary:** Yeah. So if I had this set of injuries, what would I need to do in order to reach a state of humility?

**AJ:** Well again, they're very difficult injuries to release, to get to a state of humility, because with these particular problems the addictions are usually firmly in place by the time the person's become an adult. Their world around them is trying to loosen up this problem and help them to feel it, but unfortunately the addiction is demanding, "No, I only want to create a life that will give me these particular results." It requires a lot of sincerity on the part of a person who's living this kind of a life to actually break down through the addiction and into the layer of fear that they have about feeling the underlying grief, the fear about feeling the grief of powerlessness, the fear about feeling the grief of being unwanted, the fear about feeling the grief that "Nobody notices me," these kinds of powerful grief from our childhood.

**AJ:** Of course they're also positions of untruth, in the sense that the irony of life is that when we feel a sense of internal worth, we won't seek the worth externally. When we feel a sense of internal power, we won't seek the power externally. When we feel a sense of internal glory, where we honour ourselves, we won't seek honour and glory externally. In the end there is this emotionally healed position that we have to reach where we have a feeling or a sense of internal power, a sense of internal worth, and these particular feelings only come when we release the opposite feeling that created this driving desire for these particular emotions to be fulfilled. [01:18:39.18]

**Mary:** So it's really acknowledging a lot of truth, from what you're saying. We need to at least open up to the fact that there's a different truth.

**AJ:** Yeah, and unfortunately most people who are in such a condition don't open up to the truth until they've created a life that's been quite damaged. And then they come to recognise some of the truth about how they created this damaged life. They then have some kind of self-reflection, some kind of therapy or some kind of psychological help, which helps them see the reason why they had such a desire for glory, for example, and the sacrifices that they were willing to make of their own self, and others, to reach this pinnacle of glory.

**AJ:** Once they start seeing that they start seeing the emotion as a drug rather than just seeing the emotion as something that's good to have. They start seeing the emotion as a problem that has caused the majority of their underlying problems that have been caused through this addiction. And then they start working their way through it emotionally.

**AJ:** It's rare for a person to consciously see, "Oh! I'm seeking power," and then consciously work their way through their fear and into their grief of how powerless they feel, without there being some kind of negative external effect in their life first. [01:20:05.07]

4.2.1. An example of family members seeking power, glory and respect

**Mary:** Yeah. We've given the example of someone seeking fame and glory in the big wide world, but I also see that many people set themselves up in positions of power, glory, respect and value in terms of their own family. They're the head of the household; they're the father, the mother, the wise old grandparent who has really created many of these things in a way that perhaps gives them less feedback about their true condition.

**AJ:** Yes. We were in Brazil recently and both of us noticed the power of the mother there; the matriarchal system where the mother believes everyone in the family eventually has to basically just do what she says or do what she wants. And she's glorified as this beautiful woman as a result of that. The reason why is that she has inculcated into her children this very, very strong desire to please her. Generally nobody in her immediate environment confronts the desire because they all know that if they confront the desire mum's going to be an angry ogre who might finish up ex-communicating them from the family if they're not careful. And so they always get themselves back into line.

**AJ:** Now such a person has no consciousness or awareness of what they are seeking through those addictive relationships. They need to come to some personal awareness that such behaviour is actually unloving and uncalled for in a family. And then they need to go through this process of opening or becoming more aware that these emotions are driving them and what the underlying reason for the emotions driving them are.

**AJ:** Now of course a person's already got to be fairly humble before they can actually go and do something like that. They have to have some degree of humility to look at themselves. And it's rare for such a person to do that. When we were in Brazil we talked to some spirits who had passed into the spirit world and I asked them where their families were, and they couldn't find them. And so they adopted another family on Earth so they could do the same thing to it, not asking themselves the question, "Why has my family deserted me? They've all passed, why have my family deserted me?" Well, don't you think it's got something to do with how oppressive you are? (Laughs) And once we started talking about that with that group of spirits, and taking them through the process of what was actually happening, there was initially a lot of resistance, just like there would be with people on the Earth in the same condition. [01:22:43.16]

**Mary:** And so really the family is a place where we might breed these kinds of addictions in ourselves or in our children. I'm thinking now of the favoured child, the golden child, or the long-wanted child. Suddenly they're born and they're already given a lot of power, attention, and glory.

**AJ:** Many of these "golden children" grow up being very narcissistic, doing some very damaging things. Some even turn to rape and murder and other very damaging actions as a result of being treated with this favouritism that has developed within them.

**Mary:** So it's going to take a lot of humility for someone to really begin to look at themselves and look at, "What is the attention that others are giving me? Does it give me a sense of feeling glorified or superior?" Or if I've had a family, I suppose, "What are the results in my family? Do I have children who do substance abuse or are finding it difficult to live in their life?" They may be some of the indicators I would look for, shall we say? [01:23:48.12]

**AJ:** Yeah. But also, I feel a person who is truly humble feels whether they're being honoured for something they have actually done or whether they're being honoured in a worshipful way. There is very, very big difference between this worshipful honouring or glory or attention or power to being honoured for what you have actually achieved. A person who's humble will accept being honoured for what they have actually achieved but they would reject being honoured for things they have not achieved. They would actually not agree with or enter into the co-dependent emotional addiction for things that they have not achieved. And they'd also recognise the holes or the problems that they have in their own life or their own family or whatever it is as well.

**AJ:** When we're truly humble, we may receive honour but it will be for what we've actually done, not for what everyone imagines we've done, and not for what everybody thinks we have done without any assistance. We'll also honour the assistance we've received if we're truly humble. There are ways to see whether the honour or the glory or attention or approval we're receiving is actually based around a real emotion or whether it's based around some kind of addiction.

**AJ:** When we become truly sensitive and humble, we'll actually feel the dishonourable addiction as a very sleazy feeling that we're being drawn from or taken from in the interaction, and we will find it very difficult to engage. [01:25:45.01]

5. How we resist humility: jealousy

**Mary:** Okay. Great. Let's move on to jealousy. Can you describe jealousy for us?

**AJ:** Well again, jealousy is the result of us not being humble to certain emotions. Jealousy is when we are in a rage or feeling angry or unhappy or hurt through some external event that we had generally no control over, and it's usually related to a person, place, individual or some kind of action. For example, we can be jealous that somebody else has a big house. We can be jealous about our partner and what they're doing with their life. We can be jealous for our partner in the sense that I feel like my partner is mine and anytime she shows anybody else any level of respect or attention then I'm jealous of her.

**AJ:** There are also other forms of jealousy related to when we feel our worth is being attacked. This often happens in a partnership where if a partner shows some sexual attention to another person and we feel a large amount of jealousy because we feel our own sexual worth is now being attacked by her giving her attention to another. And the reality is, it is being attacked but the reaction of jealousy is a denial of the underlying grief. [01:27:50.17]

**AJ:** These emotions of jealousy can come up from many different situations and they involve things that include feelings that are related to jealousy, such as coveting a person.

**Mary:** What's coveting?

**AJ:** Coveting is when we feel jealous that another person has a thing that we do not have, and so then we want that thing. And often we want that thing from that person as well. There's a lot of rage in the covetous desire, if you like. Covetous is an old word, I suppose, that you don't hear very often lately because it has biblical connotations. But the reality is that it's an emotion of jealousy where we want something from another that we usually don't have ourselves and that we feel that we're missing. And when we covet it, we're actually willing to take action to get it as well. We take the extra step not only of just being jealous but taking an action that gets the feeling satisfied, which is often very destructive. And people have murdered for that emotion. People have stolen for that emotion. People have raped for that emotion. There are all sorts of very heavy emotions involved in those particular aspects of jealousy. [01:29:14.06]

5.1. Emotions that drive jealousy

**Mary:** Would you say there's a group of key emotions that we would be avoiding when we become jealous?

**AJ:** Yes. Most of the emotions we avoid are about ourselves. The emotions that we are avoiding are always related to ourselves and our own lack of worth. It could be related to our own lack of sexual worth that we're unwilling to feel, or our own lack of physical worth, or financial worth. It's often related to security, but with regard to our personal worth with the security. We're not worth being safe. We're not worth being secure, and so forth. And so because these emotions have deep feelings associated with worth, they're often very prevalent in society as a result. [01:30:01.14]

**Mary:** I'm thinking here now of things like shame and feeling dirty; that's all related to our worth, isn't it, and very icky kinds of emotions to actually connect to?

**AJ:** Yes, and so jealousy is the rage associated with our addiction not getting met, whatever the addiction is. The addiction might be, "You give me a sense of sexual worth. If you don't give me a sense of sexual worth then I attack you." That's an act of jealousy towards you. If you share your sexual feeling with somebody else, then I no longer feel any sexual worth, so now I desire to attack you. In that rageful place I am now exhibiting my jealous emotions, which is a denial of humility. Because the reality is that if I were humble I would feel hurt at how you don't feel I'm sexually worth staying with, and that is a very different emotion; that is a grieving-based emotion. When we're afraid of feeling that level of grief-based emotion, we go to the jealous rageful-based emotion.

5.2. Acknowledging our jealousy and other dark emotions

**Mary:** I feel that this is a really murky area: jealousy and the emotions we avoid that create jealousy. It seems to me that a lot of us have issues just acknowledging that we're jealous. It's even such an unpleasant emotion for ourselves, that's why I hesitated when I was going to ask you the question about what the emotions lying underneath it are, because often I feel the real work we have to do is to acknowledge that we have it.

**AJ:** That we feel that way, yes. I agree. The biggest problem with many of these emotions is acknowledging that we have them. It's the same with fear, same with anger, same with wanting to feel powerful and all of what people call these seven deadly sins or something. Many of those emotions listed there are the emotions where everybody feels a bit sleazy inside of themselves when they feel they have them. It's the level of discomfort and judgement that we have about these particular emotions that causes us to not face what's underneath them. Unless I acknowledge that I am jealous I am never going to get to the emotion underneath it. Unless I acknowledge that I'm afraid, I will never get to the emotion underneath it.

**AJ:** So part of humility is acknowledging that the emotion exists; it is present and alive within us, and it is dictating our life to us. That is a very strong part of what we need to do if we're going to become humble to these emotions.

**AJ:** We need to admit to ourselves how dark we are before we can become lighter. This is what I would call a process, and it's the beginning of a process of repentance actually; to admit to ourselves what things we actually have inside of us is a very important part of actually growing out of those things and becoming different. You can't change something you cannot see or feel. In particular, you cannot change what you cannot feel. If you're denying to yourself that you have a feeling of jealousy, this dark emotion of jealousy that could maybe even turn into rage, anger and murder in the end; if you're denying it, you're never going to actually change it. You're never going to release it. And you're never going to find what the underlying cause of it is. [01:33:31.16]

**Mary:** And as we talked about in the fear section, then we actually give it more power in our lives.

**AJ:** Of course, and unfortunately the power is unconscious as well. Not only have we given the emotion, let's say it's the emotion of jealousy, more power by not acknowledging its existence, but also, because we do not acknowledge its existence, it will dictate our life to us. We'll live in the emotion of jealousy most of our life and we will not even realise what negative things it's creating because we'll be justifying to ourselves retaining the emotion of jealousy under certain circumstances.

**AJ:** So the man who feels that it's right for him to go into a rage with his girl who has just sexually interacted or flirted with another person is already justifying rage to himself, a very unloving act towards another, for the sake of the denial of his own grief about what it meant for him, sexually inside of himself, that he was now being treated as something that's of lesser value. And so he is automatically in great denial of the deeper grief that he doesn't want to choose to feel. [01:34:44.07]

5.3. Jealousy can be about our perceptions rather than reality

**Mary** : Okay, just finally about jealousy. Are we always jealous of things that people actually have or can we perceive...?

**AJ:** That's the sad thing, isn't it? We're often jealous of what we imagine they have but a lot of times it's not even real. We were talking to someone recently where they were jealous of another person because they were young (laughs) and had a pretty face or whatever. Even those things are not real in the sense that the person's not acting in a manner that would cause them to be jealous, they're just jealous of something. Jealousy is always driven by a feeling inside of ourselves that is generally related to this big emotion of worth, and a lack of worth. It might be a lack of sexual worth, physical worth, emotional worth and it can even be related to spiritual worth. Often jealousy creates many imaginings inside of the human mind. Often it imagines things that are not even happening. (Laughs)

**Mary:** Yep, but from what you're saying it's created by avoiding certain of these worthless feelings.

**AJ:** We'd prefer to imagine the damaging situation that never occurred, than feel our grief about it potentially occurring. Isn't that amazing? We'd rather have the rage about it never having happened but believing that it has, than we would feel the grief that it might happen, or has happened in the past, and that's a sad thing about such emotions. Such emotions always demonstrate a lack of humility, because they're the addiction associated with the fear associated with the actual emotion that we need to feel. So it's three or four layers removed from feeling the actual emotion. [01:36:59.16]

**Mary:** And it seems that most of us operate in that top layer most of our life unless we really do this work.

**AJ:** Yes. Hence psychologists have come up with this concept that we live in our subconscious because these things, which could be conscious, are actually subconscious in most people. Most people are not consciously aware they have underlying grief-based emotions which trigger these kinds of addictions. So instead of feeling the grief-based emotions, which are the creator of all of these things, they are living their life in addiction, not even really knowing or understanding why. The reality is that we're all capable of understanding why, we're all pretty intelligent as humans, certainly much more intelligent than the average monkey, and so we have capacity to understand why it's all happening, but we have high levels of denying why it's happening. [01:37:56.05]

6. How we resist humility: commiseration

**Mary:** Let's move on to commiseration. What is commiseration and how does it prevent humility?

**AJ:** Well, commiseration is the underlying desire that another person supports my belief or emotional state. It could be supporting anything, actually; supporting something that gives me some kind of validation. Commiseration usually means in the end that we start to grumble for attention, we want approval, we complain how bad everything is so that everyone will tell us that it can be better and so forth. We want others to agree with our own assessment of things, just because it makes us feel like our assessment had some value. And we want others to make us feel good about ourselves by agreeing with us all the time; even when they feel it's impossible to agree with us, we still want them to agree with us. And even when we're wrong, we still want them to agree with us. We want them to commiserate with our state, our life, what we've created.

**AJ:** The main reason why we wish to do all of this is that we don't want to take personal responsibility for anything that we've created. We want some kind of global acceptance of our own creation, and everybody we accept into our life should agree "What else would we have created, given the circumstances?" [01:39:18.10]

6.1. Commiseration results from not wanting to take personal responsibility for our creations

**Mary:** (Laughs) Yep, well that was my next question I suppose. Why would we become addicted to commiseration? And you've probably just answered that.

**AJ:** Yeah, it's because we're refusing to take responsibility for our own creations. We're refusing to be humble to our own emotions of what we have created. We are refusing to see that our own assessments of things are actually flawed or are based in error. We're refusing to see our own denial. We want everybody else around us to support our condition of denial. In reality we're wanting everyone around us to support our own lack of growth, our own stagnation, our own life. We're basically saying, "Here's my life, you all need to agree that it's good." Even when it's bad you need to agree it's good. Even when it's untruthful, we all need to agree it's good. And that way the person feels, "Ah, I'm good now," and we can avoid a lot of emotions in that place.

**Mary:** Can it work in the opposite way? Can I want everyone around me to agree that it's bad?

**AJ:** Totally! Like Hanrahan, in the Australian poem: "We'll all be ruined," said Hanrahan. As it progressed, when there was no rain coming: "We'll all be ruined. We'll all be ruined." And then when the rain comes, "We'll still all be ruined"! Because he basically just had a pessimistic attitude about the whole of life and he wanted everybody to agree with him. Many people are like that. They get some emotional support from this level of personal agreement that others have with them. It's actually a very unpleasant emotion to be around in a lot of ways because you get pulled into the web of the person. The person is only going to give you any love or attention or approval if you agree with them and if you support their life.

**AJ:** Now obviously if the Earth is in so much error that means people are in a lot of error. If people are in a lot of error, then somebody's going to have to disagree with the error before people are going to change. And if we're addicted to commiseration, that means we're going to be addicted to everybody staying the same. We're going to be addicted to everybody having the same opinions. Things are not going to change if everybody has the same opinions. The world itself, if we look at it honestly, has a lot of problems. And if all of us have the same opinions about it, and all of us commiserate with each other about it, none of us are going to get out of the problem and experience a different life here on Earth.

6.2. Commiseration creates stagnation

**AJ:** Commiseration is, I believe, a very weak emotion and it causes so much damage to this planet. It causes so much damage to individual relationships as well because nobody ever challenges the status quo. And look at what happens to the person who does challenge it; every time you don't agree with something you get attacked, because people are addicted to this commiseration emotion. Everybody wants you to commiserate with them, everybody wants you to agree with their opinion. And it's very difficult to agree with opinions that are wrong, but they still want you to! (Laughter)

**AJ:** Imagine it from God's perspective. God knows the Absolute Truth of everything, and God's looking at the Earth going, "Yeah, pretty much everything you're doing is wrong." (Laughs) Now, consider at some point if God commiserated with it all and said, "Yeah, you're doing everything wrong but that's okay." It's not okay! The reality is that it's not okay. While God allows it to occur because we have the gift of free will, God's not up there going, "Oh yeah, I agree with that choice. I agree with that choice." Obviously there is a truth that we can change. And the problem with commiseration is it causes us to be completely blind to the truth. We even desire blindness to the truth. [01:43:18.20]

**Mary:** Obviously in our life we're fairly committed to speaking truth with people. What I observe is that firstly many of us start out in this state of wanting to be blind to the truth that we can change and wanting commiseration for that, and then perhaps you point out that there is a truth that they can change, and then there's a desire for commiseration that it's too hard to change.

**AJ:** Exactly! Now they want me to say, "Ah, it's good that you didn't know that you were wrong. And it's good that now it's too hard to change." No it's not good! How can you say those things? It's not. None of those things can be commiserated with. And there's a very strong one that seems to be prevalent, "Oh, but I had a bad childhood, surely you can realise that this choice that I've just made that's unloving came from my bad childhood." Well, no, it didn't come from your bad childhood. I've seen many people who have had a terrible childhood still make loving choices. So it didn't come from your childhood, it came from your willingness to justify not dealing with the emotion from your childhood, that's what it came from. It's very difficult to commiserate with people under those circumstances and in fact impossible if you love them. It's impossible to commiserate if you love somebody. [01:44:33.14]

6.3. Differences between commiseration and compassion

**Mary:** Could you then contrast for us commiseration and compassion?

**AJ:** Well compassion understands the truth associated with the condition. Commiseration is not interested in the truth associated with the condition; it wants to deny the truth associated with the condition. They are completely different emotions. When I have true compassion for what a person is going through, I understand the truth completely about why they're going through what they're going through. If I am commiserating with them, I don't understand the truth completely and I support their error. And that's a very unloving action to take.

**Mary:** How would there be a difference in my behaviour between the two states? Or my feelings?

**AJ:** When we have compassion, it's a feeling of love for the person. The feeling of love is a feeling based on complete understanding of what's going on. Commiseration is not interested in understanding; it's interested only in giving them a feeling of approval. It's an addictive bartering system to give the person a sense that they're right. Compassion in a situation where somebody is wrong would still be compassionate, but they would tell them that they're wrong. Commiseration in a situation when somebody is wrong would have a facade of compassion and tell them that they're right. [01:46:08.05]

**Mary:** Even if it's just emotionally.

**AJ:** That's correct.

**Mary:** The feeling coming from them is...

**AJ:** "Ah, you're right to have that. Yeah, it's okay for you to be so angry. It's okay for you to be so upset. It's okay for you to be so afraid." It's not okay; these are all error-based emotions that need to leave. We need to feel them but it's not okay that they're there. We need to understand why they're there.

**Mary:** Whereas if we are compassionate, we're accepting that they're there.

**AJ:** We accept they're there, we have compassion for how it got there, but we do not agree with them being there. We do not support the person retaining them, which is a very different state to commiseration. In fact we confront the person who wants to retain them, and we can still be compassionate doing that. A truly humble person wants to feel everything. A truly humble person wants to know the truth about every situation. A truly humble person is willing to feel the truth about every situation, not avoid it. A person who wants commiseration, they don't want to do any of those things, so they're definitely not humble. They can act humble, "Oh, my life's so terrible," and they act all downtrodden and meek and mild but the reality is that they're not humble at all. [01:47:23.07]

**Mary:** So when we're truly humble, how would we respond to others wanting to commiserate with us or our problems?

**AJ:** We would never commiserate with an individual when we're truly humble because we understand that the danger of doing so causes them to retain the emotion that's suppressing their true healing. So we would never commiserate with them. We would have compassion for them, but we would disagree with them. We would have a feeling of compassion for them, but we would still disagree with their untruth.

**Mary:** And what about if someone attempts to commiserate with me?

**AJ:** If we were truly humble we would also feel that to be a very sleazy emotion. And we would not engage it. We would probably ask the person to go away rather than to project such emotions at us. Also we would question them as to why they're commiserating when we're trying to feel something that is actually to do with a healing-based emotion. Why are they trying to commiserate with me? Because it's an attempt to shut me down. When we commiserate with other people we are shutting down the expression of their causal emotion. So it's actually damaging on the giving and receiving end, as are many of these emotions, yes.

7. How we resist humility: false humility

**Mary:** Yes, so we've seen. Okay, well the final point I wanted to speak to you about today is something that I've just labelled as false humility. I suppose that you've been teaching for some time now, and there are large numbers of people listening. You emphasise the importance of humility, which is essentially about having a willingness and a desire to feel ourselves and our own emotions. Something I observe happening is that people get into a tear tally. (Laughs)

**AJ:** Which is an indication of a lack of humility, (laughs) that they're tallying it, for example.

**Mary:** Perhaps that's my joking way of saying it. But there's a feeling that we must cry all the time at any moment and that any expression of emotion is an expression of humility.

**AJ:** Which is very false, isn't it?

**Mary:** Yes, I believe that this is a false expression of humility.

**AJ:** It's a facade of humility without the substance and often invites spirit influence as well. For example, a person who's seeking glory and attention on the Divine Love Path wants to have everybody else on the path... and I don't know why they call it "The Divine Love Path", it's probably "The Way that God encourages us to connect to God." It's all about our relationship with God in reality. But a person who's seeking attention in that process will go, "Oh yes, I cried five times today, and four times yesterday. And I cried about this and I cried about that," and it's just another way of seeking attention and approval. It's got nothing to do with reality. And oftentimes they open themselves up to spirits as well; they often feel the emotion of a spirit just so that they can say they had an emotion. And it's very damaging to them, very damaging. [01:50:46.09]

7.1. Emotions that drive false humility

**Mary:** What are the emotions that are driving this kind of behaviour?

**AJ:** Well all false sense of humility comes from some of these other emotions we've already mentioned. It comes from a rage about having to feel your own emotions. It comes from a desire to have commiseration. It comes from a desire for glory, attention or approval, just in a different way, so in the end it's still the suppression of the same. Any time we have a facade of humility, we still have exactly the same levels of resistance that we're already discussed. We're just being less honest about it.

**Mary:** Exactly. And to me that's even more concerning. That's actually creating a facade upon a facade at times.

**AJ:** Of course. It's like a layer of facade upon another layer of facade. It's just another layer we're going to have to deconstruct at some point and look at why we are deciding that fake is actually preferable to real. The reality is that for many people fake is preferable to real. The way to see whether we're actually progressing towards God is to look at our life over the last two or three years. If we've done a lot of crying and there's little change in our life, then all of that crying was a facade. All of it. It was all a lack of humility, the whole lot of it.

**AJ:** Humility is not crying. If people believe humility is crying, they are very, very mistaken. Humility is feeling all of the emotions that are present. For many people the emotions that are initially present are addictions and they need to feel those. And above that often there's anger. Above that there's often denial. All of those need to be felt. And you're not going to be crying when you're feeling those. You're going to be feeling angry and upset and rageful and uncomfortable, all these other types of feelings.

**AJ:** And then they've got to get into their fear, and fear is another level of emotion. And you need to feel your fears. But you can't justify it to yourself or commiserate with everyone with, "Ah, I felt this fear the other day, isn't this wonderful how I felt that fear the other day." My question is, "Well, has your life changed in that direction? If it hasn't changed then you didn't feel anything." And this is what I find quite strange with people. It's just creating another way of life, similar to a religion, in a way. What many people are doing with the "Divine Love Path", what we've been trying to teach, is they're going to themselves, "Yeah I'm on the Divine Love Path." In other words it's sort of like saying, "I'm a Catholic now." It's exactly the same thing. "I go to church every weekend." "Oh, I go to the meetings all the time." So there's the comparison. And, "I pray every day." "Ah, I talk to God every day." [01:53:35.00]

**Mary:** "I cry every day."

7.2. If we're truly humble our lives will change

**AJ:** Yeah, and then, "Ah, and I treat everybody nicely", and there are all these comparisons but in the end it's all facade. The whole lot's facade, for many of them. They have not made a substantial change in their entire life for the last period of time that they've been following the "religion." Let's say it's a religion, any religion. If a person hasn't made substantial changes in the way in which they live their life in the last five years with any religion, then the religion is not benefiting them. It's not bringing them into more harmony with love, more harmony with truth, more growth, more humility, more anything.

**AJ:** Now the same applies to any person who's listened to the Divine Truth. If it hasn't substantially changed their life in the last two, three, four or five years that they've been associated with it, then they haven't done anything. They haven't made any sincere changes. Their soul's not growing, so nothing's changed. What's the difference being in that way of life to being like any other religious or any other thing that we could actually pursue? None. None whatsoever.

**AJ:** We need to understand that when we get into this truthfully, we're going to be going through some very real experiences. And to be honest, to talk about them demeans them. The majority of people do not realise that the reason why I do not share my emotions with people except in a teaching environment is that I find to talk about my emotions, even in a teaching environment, demeans the experience. The actual experience was often far more powerful than what I can describe, and far more life-changing than what I can describe, and had a far bigger effect on the rest of my life than what I can describe. All I'm attempting to do is describe it so that people can understand that that's what it's going to look like, there's going to be change. [01:55:32.15]

**Mary:** It's trying to contain a sunset into two sentences.

**AJ:** Yes. You know it's like last night in our interview, when you were asked what's been your life since you met me, and you were expected to give an answer in one minute. It's impossible really, it's an impossibility because the reality is that these are very huge experiences emotionally that cause your whole life to change. If you are truly progressing on any path, scientific, religious, or otherwise, you will have changed in the last few years. And if you have not changed, then you are not sincerely doing it. Or the path itself is not actually working, it doesn't work. It's one of those two things.

**AJ:** Now, I know from my personal experience that the path works. And that's why I'm teaching it. But I have not seen many people make sincere changes on the path. There's not a large number of people on the planet making sincere changes and the reason why is that they're not being sincere about their true feelings. In other words they are not being humble, that's the problem.

7.3. True humility feels edgy, uncomfortable and like being alive

**Mary:** Yeah. I suppose I feel that in the times when I'm experiencing humility, life feels edgy. You know, I'm on the edge of my comfort zone all of the time.

**AJ:** All the time.

**Mary:** And that's what humility really feels like.

**AJ:** But it's also good - you get used to that after a while almost, and it's like everything's always edgy after that.

**Mary:** And the feedback is so profound.

**AJ:** And instant.

**Mary:** And instant. You know, you operate on the edge of your comfort zone. You face something and you know you're different forever.

**AJ:** And your world changes. Everything changes around you instantly too. Like within a day everything's changed. Yeah.

**Mary:** And there's freedom and more joy but then if you're really humble and sincere you'll be on the edge again.

**AJ:** Yeah, with another issue.

**Mary:** Something else.

**AJ:** Yeah. And the reality is that if you're truly humble and you become at-one with God, you're still going to be in the same place; on the edge all the time discovering new things. You're in your passion now, there are not all these really harsh negative emotions associated with the discovery of new things, but you're still feeling this passion of life. Like, you know you can't avoid it. If you're truly humble you will not be in a state where you go, "Oh, life's a bit ho hum today." (Laughs) [01:58:19.04]

**Mary:** And to me it does feel like the contrast between living and being in a coma.

**AJ:** Yes.

**Mary:** And the difference is this humility factor. If I'm humble I'm alive.

**AJ:** I think the reason why there are so many zombie movies today is that most people are in a coma. (Laughs) And the zombie feeling sort of appeals. (Laughs)

**Mary:** (Laughs) Yeah.

**AJ:** It's exciting when they run around with a knife. (Laughs) But it's a sad statement of humanity's condition really, in that the average person who's in passionate desire with their life is often criticised, looked down upon, condescended to. If we've got a childlike passion in any area or endeavour it's often beaten out of us in this world that we live in. And that's because generally in the world there is this terrible lack of humility. The reason we've got so many problems in the world is that we lack the humility to see that we created them. That's the main reason why.

7.4. Differences between humility and false humility

**AJ:** And I said at the beginning of this series of interviews with you, a lack of humility causes our own death. The reality is that if we're all completely humble, none of us would ever die because we'd feel all emotion. Any negative experience we had would all be gone from us; it would not create any physical problem within us. We'd be humble in our relationship with other people so we'd never attack them, we'd never harm them. We'd be humble in terms of what we notice happening around us. We'd understand science, we'd understand the world around us, we'd understand the Earth's systems and how they all work. We'd understand when it's going to be a bit damaging and it's good to get out of its way. We'd understand all of those things automatically because we're humble, and so there's no real chance of us even dying under those circumstances.

**AJ:** So in reality, a lack of humility causes our own death. If people understood it, that's how strong the lack of humility is, the power that the lack of humility has to create our own death. The power of humility is that it can create your own eternal life; even here on Earth it can create your eternal life, along with all of your happiness and everything else humility can create. But mankind has just such a terrible viewpoint of it, and ridicules it, and can't accept it; it can't accept that state of fully feeling, experiencing everything within themselves, and remaining humble to the entire experience, and having a feeling inside of yourself of an accurate position of your own condition in relation to everything. I know that I am equal to you. Not higher than you, not lower than you; equal to you. And humility creates that. Humility accepts truth. It accepts it without resistance. It's just a beautiful quality. [02:01:39.11]

**Mary:** With regard to false humility, this phenomenon we're talking about now, it feels to me like there's an inertia on the planet surrounding the resistance to truth, resistance to humility, that even when you come forth and present a teaching that is based on humility, it takes such an effort to overcome this inertia that people end up actually sliding back into it and creating a false humility rather than actual humility.

**AJ:** Yeah, an arrogance really. How many people who believe they're on the path go around saying, "I'm on the Divine Love Path"?

**Mary:** "I know the truth."

**AJ:** "And I know the truth now," when in their heart they know hardly anything really. They're yet to have a real physical change and heartfelt change. It's because of their own arrogance; it's not humility for a person to do that. It's arrogance to go, "Oh I know the truth now. I heard the truth from Jesus and I know it." What's the difference between that and a person who's a Christian saying, "The Bible's the truth," or a Muslim saying, "Oh, the Koran's the truth and I know it now"? There's no difference, and one of the reasons why we have so much conflict between each one of these religions is because they're all going, "I know the truth now, aren't I good?" And, no, you're not good. Often you've just come to your senses for the first time. [02:03:02.05]

**Mary:** If we're still living in a state of arrogance, we haven't even begun, have we?

**AJ:** No, not at all. We have no idea or clear concept of our true position in life or our true position in the universe when we have a lack of humility, and our own condition in relationship to God and relationship to the power of the universe that God's created. We have no concept of it if we lack humility. We can't actually learn anything if we lack humility. We can intellectually absorb, but we can't actually emotionally learn it.

8. Closing Words

**Mary:** Which probably brings me towards the end of the interview. Really, you are the most humble person I know and have ever known.

**AJ:** Thanks, babe. (Laughs)

**Mary:** I observe you in our life, you cop a lot of criticism, anger, people justifying their rage at you and their ridicule towards you. Their cynicism gets projected at you; all of their insecurities and fears become projected at you. I observe this happening a lot and I observe you being very humble to it. You don't place resistance, you don't get angry back. You very much grieve if that's what those experiences bring up for you. But I also see that you've been so humble that even now you can receive these things and a lot of those emotions have left you and you're able to just be in a state of love with everyone around us. That is a beautiful example, and one I feel very honoured to share with you in your life. (Mary starts crying) [02:04:48.16]

**AJ:** Thanks, darling.

**Mary:** I see you are someone who has overcome that inertia which seems so great on the planet. But I do know that you have overcome it. You weren't born in this state and you have developed humility and to me this is one of the most inspiring things about our discussion. It's not that you are just telling me a bunch of facts, but you are telling me things from your lived experience. I know that if I were to interview you about that in detail perhaps it would be a whole other interview. But would you mind sharing with us something of that journey or some of the things that you've had to deal with in order to be humble? [02:05:36.21]

8.1. AJ describes his personal experiences in becoming humble

**AJ:** Well the reality is that I've probably had to deal with almost everything we've listed over the last five sessions really (laughs). I've had every one of those emotions at some point. I've had to go through the experience of finding out why, and even desire to find out why, even though everyone around me doesn't want me to. And I've also had to choose to do it alone, a lot of times, without support because on the planet most of the support is in the opposite direction. And I've had to do it with lots of criticism, under lots of pressure and usually under fire.

**AJ:** Because of that though I've learnt the importance of my relationship with God, and that my relationship to God gives me the truth that will get me through everything. As a result of that, I gave up relying on everyone around me. I gave up relying on somebody supporting me or helping me through the process. I just focused entirely on my relationship with God about that. I feel that's what most people are neglecting in this drive for truth; they still want somebody holding their hand, not realising they've got the master of the universe, God, holding their hand. If they accept the hand of God; they'll have God holding their hand.

**AJ:** I also feel that God loves to hold the hand of a humble person. I believe that there's this quality in God, that God can see a person who is truly humble because the person's starting to see themselves as God sees them. Because of that linkage, there's a deep connection between God and yourself when you're truly humble. You don't have to be at-one with God yet to have a connection with God when you're truly humble. When you're truly humble you feel God more and of course God can feel you more now. God always feels us but there's all this addiction and other crap that we project at God generally, and we don't feel ourselves very well. But once we are humble, we're starting to feel ourselves, we're feeling ourselves as God feels us, and I feel it's what most people neglect here. Most people who are seeking false humility are actually entirely neglecting their true relationship with God and still wanting addictions met through their environment.

**AJ:** So I've had to give all that up. Part of the issue of teaching something that's new, and different, is that you're never going to get acceptance right at the beginning. In fact it can be many centuries or even millennia later that acceptance comes. And you have to be humble to everything that happens in between as well if you really want to maintain that relationship with God and stay in connection with God.

**AJ:** I've had to learn to give up all of these things, all of these resistances. I've even had to give up somebody supporting me in the process. I've had to give that up. And I still don't feel that I've completely given some of that up in the sense that emotionally I can still feel that there are a few more emotions for me to work through with stuff like that. At first you often get criticised, judged, condemned, in every possible way, and if your desire for God is strong enough and your desire to be humble with God is strong enough, you'll go through all of those things and still stay humble.

**AJ:** I also feel that most people don't recognise that humility is a choice. It is an emotional choice but it's a choice. We can be in any situation and choose humility over any other position, including arrogance. We can choose to actually feel what's really going on rather than avoid what's really going on. We can choose to see our life as it truly is. I see the faults in my body as they truly are, right now. I know what they are. I find it interesting when somebody else comes and tells me about them and I say, "Well are there any others?" and they don't know of any others, and I can list them all. I'm actually more humble to my own condition than other people, who can come to tell me things, are. That's a part of it too, to actually see yourself truthfully and to not need other people to see you truthfully. [02:10:37.13]

**Mary:** I also observe that you're very conscious of yourself and if there is an issue or something's not working or something's not resolved, you're always asking for more truth about it.

**AJ:** Always.

**Mary:** I see people somehow have a perception of you that you are not seeking more truth and I observe you daily seeking more truth and recognising God, the sovereignty of God, I suppose; that God has the knowledge and that you are the person seeking it.

**AJ:** Yes.

**Mary:** And receiving it because of this humble state you have surrounding it.

**AJ:** Yeah, and if we can remind everyone that humility is not an intellectual decision. It's an emotional state. It's a state of being able to absorb new truth and give up what you believe is true. People often say to me, "This Divine Truth of yours..." and I go, "I'm sorry, it's not mine." I see myself as being like a scientist discovering truth about a specific subject. Let's say I'm a scientist discovering truth about the atom, I'd have to be open to any possibility, and I feel with regard to God and the universe, and all those things where I'm passionate about discovering new truth, I am open to any new possibility. If somebody can prove that what I'm saying is wrong, I'm perfectly able to accept that it's wrong if it's able to be proven. Perfectly able. I have no emotional investment in being right at all, although many people think I do. I do not have any emotional investment in being right.

**AJ:** I do have a deep emotional investment in desiring truth from God. I have a very, very strong desire to know what the truth is from God. It's not my truth, it's never going to be my truth in a sense because universal truth existed before I existed; if I ever pass away it will exist. I don't think I'll ever pass away now because of being in the condition of receiving God's Love, and if I passed away then God would have to pass away too. But I do know for certain that as long as I exist there'll be more universal truth to discover and the way I see it right now is that I know very little of it. I know a lot more in comparison to many people on the planet, and that is a statement of truth, but it also is a statement of humility in the sense that it's not mine. It's not mine. I've only learnt it. And I've only learnt it because of this quality. It's not because of having any greater intellectual power than somebody else or having any greater imagination or receiving more help from spirits, because I have not received help from spirits discovering any of this truth. It's all about the fact that I've been humble enough to accept when I'm wrong and to accept something new from God. And that's really what humility does for you; it allows truth to be absorbed. [02:14:01.03]

8.2. The relationship between humility, truth and love

**Mary:** Yes. I wanted to round out the interview I suppose, by asking you about how humility relates to truth and I think you've just mentioned that. Also I see that you have a commitment to speaking truth to others but you don't view it as your own truth.

**AJ:** No. Speaking truth to others is also a state of humility. I know many times that if I speak the truth they will not believe me, they'll be condescending towards me, they'll disagree with me, they'll attack me. They might even harm me physically. They'll attempt to harm me emotionally in almost every case, and yet if I'm humble I will accept all of that as emotional projections that I just need to feel if I have any more feeling associated with them. But I still need to tell the truth because once I'm in a state of humility, I recognise the importance of God's Truth. It's more important than I am. It's far important than my life, it's more important than my welfare, it's more important than my security. It's not more important than my happiness because it will always create my happiness. And it's not more important than love because it will always create more love in my life. But it's more important than many other things that most other people place importance in. And the fact that I honour that is a state of humility; that I honour the importance of God's Truth, Divine Truth. [02:15:28.01]

**Mary:** Just finally, what's the relationship between love and humility then?

**AJ:** Well, as I've said in many discussions already, and I think it's a great place to finish off this interview, humility is the only doorway to truth. Without humility you will never be able to discover new truth, ever, in any field of endeavour. And it's the truth that creates freedom. Once we know the truth, fear disappears, all these other things start to disappear. But the truth also creates something even more powerful than that, and that is the ability to connect to God and receive love.

**AJ:** Truth is the doorway to Divine Love. That being the case, you could say Truth is God's, Love is God's, but humility is mine. Humility is the only quality that I can personally develop that helps me develop my relationship with God and my relationship with the universe. If I develop humility, then truth will come to me, and I'll be able to absorb it. And if I develop humility, and absorb this truth, love will come to me, and I'll be able to absorb it. The Love is not mine, it's from God. And the Truth is not mine, it's from God. But the humility is mine. It is the quality that exists within me that enables these particular things to occur.

8.2.1. The importance of humility

**AJ:** In that regard you can be happy that there is one area where your relationship with God is dependent upon yourself, and that is the humble exercise of your own will. The development of this quality of humility will have the largest effect on your life imaginable, more than any other quality, more than any other thing that can be developed inside of yourself, by yourself. I personally don't believe that love can be really developed by yourself. If you're ever truly going to become loving, you're going to need to receive God's Love. If you're ever truly going to know the truth, you're going to have to receive God's Truth. These things are God's, not mine. But humility is something I can develop. It is the thing inside of me upon which everything else is dependent, and that's why it's so important. [02:18:04.18]

**Mary:** Would you call it the way that we offer ourselves to God? Or the way that we submit to God's process is just humility?

**AJ:** Yes. Well, I feel humility is "The Way." The actual way to God is this process of becoming completely humble. That is The Way. And once you become humble you start feeling it and accepting the truth in you. You'll acknowledge the truth that God exists; you'll acknowledge the truth that God has Love to give. You will then desire that love even. Once you're humble, all of those truths can come to you. Humility is the primary foundation of the way to God. Without this quality being developed it is impossible to get to know God, and it's impossible to become at-one with God without it. Humility is the cause of our being born again. And so, yeah, I just feel that if everybody understood that better, then humility would be a far more important topic of conversation on the planet than what it currently is. [02:19:06.00]

**Mary:** Yes. Thank you, my love.

**AJ:** Thanks, darling.

Appendix: Interview With Jesus by Mary Magdalene - Humility Sessions 4 & 5 Outline

### RESISTANCE TO HUMILITY - Why We Find Humility Difficult

Q. We've spent a few interviews now discussing true humility. So, could you give us an overview of why, as souls made by God, we collectively seem to find this truly humble state so difficult?

What are some of the ways we resist humility?

### Arrogance

Q. What is arrogance?

Arrogance comes from a basic untruthful emotion that I feel I am better than others: Arrogance; an offensive display of superiority or self-importance, overbearing pride I am automatically judging others as lesser than myself

Q. How does God view arrogance? How does our viewpoint of ourselves when we are arrogant conflict with God's Truth?

I am setting myself up as having authority over others, usurping God's position

I am blasphemous & treating God's children as lesser than myself

Q. How difficult is arrogance to release from ourselves?

Releasing arrogance is VERY difficult emotionally, & arrogance betrays a VERY dark condition

Arrogance is therefore an indication that I am not being humble

Q. What are some of the reasons we develop this injury?

Mostly it is done to avoid the experience of personally painful emotions

When we put others down we get to feel better about ourselves

Q. How much does this emotion darken our souls?

Since arrogance involves the denigration of another, it damages others besides ourselves Therefore it rapidly darkens the condition of our soul with regard to love Every time we are arrogant, we are generally being unloving to others

### False Ego

Q. How would you define 'false ego' for the purposes of this discussion?

It is the Façade, the Image of Yourself that you want to hold onto (parent created)

Q. Are there other words you have used to describe this state? True Ego is the centre of self that God created within you False Ego is the centre you have within yourself that you have personally created to avoid the hurt that society (parents, environment) has created within you:

Ego is the false impression of myself created by my environment

Both my environment & I wish to retain ego so I do not have to feel myself as I truly am

Q. Why is this state so attractive to so many of us?

We do not have to confront society We do not have to confront our parents with truth We get the approval of others agreement

Q. What do I 'gain' or how do I feel 'good' when I live in this state?

I am unwilling to see myself as God sees me, & retain a view only as society or I see myself I become addicted to feeling good by doing what others want, or avoiding what others ridicule Ego causes us to become addicted to admiration from others, & may even cause "false" humility

Q. I am reminded here of the section in the last interview where we discussed humility involving a willingness to be as I am truthfully am. Are my blocks to simply being 'real', simply the addictions to others good opinion of me, or is there more to it than this?

We have severe emotional investments to avoid our own emotional pain Our false ego helps us to maintain our denial and experience of painful emotions, to avoid the painful truth of our life, and helps us to get pleasure from our environment

How could I make concrete steps to challenge my façade and be my true self?

Always openly tell the truth Let yourself see what your soul condition is attracting through the Law of Attraction Examine your own disease, and be humble to the fact that something within creates it

### Judgment & Criticism

Q. What is judgement?

More has been said on this subject in the talk "The Human Soul - Emotions, Truth & Judgement" The Judgment being discussed here is not:

Discernment; noticing the truth & then acting on that truth in a loving manner I must openly state emotional Truth to all people who I interact with The statement of Truth about situations or people is a requirement to remain at-one with God e.g. I can state you are not being loving, that may be a Divine Truth, and is not judgmental

Judgment is the emotion of feeling someone else is lesser than or better than me: It is the emotional treatment of someone as more lowly than myself (or higher than myself) It is the emotional treatment of myself as if I am superior to others (or lower than others) It is being belittling, condescending, snobbish, denigrating, patronizing

Q. What causes us to judge another or ourselves?

We have been trained to judge others by our environment Anything that seems outside of our societies viewpoint of normal is judged Judgement is a method of control, manipulation, of avoiding the fear of something different So it's basic underlying cause is the emotion of FEAR

Q. How does judgment relate to our seeing and speaking truth?

Fear and Truth are opposites. Truth always exposes our fears. Judgement helps us to avoid our fear, and also helps us to deny the truth about how we feel Judgement also helps us to avoid personal responsibility for our own emotional response

Q. Why are judgement and criticism such big blocks our humility?

While I am busy judging and criticising others, I am unable to see myself as I truly am I will not feel my own emotions, nor will I be able to see the Truth

### Intellectual & Emotional Denial Of Unloving Thoughts, Words & Actions

Q. What are the ways we commonly use to live in denial?

More has been said on this subject in the talk "The Human Soul – Denial Of The Soul" Intellectual & emotional denial of my own unloving thoughts, words & actions causes me to:

Justify; "I know that happened, but everybody does it" Minimize; "I know that happened, but it's wasn't really that bad" Shifting The Blame; "I thought/said/did what I did because of you"

Q. How does the denial of God & Gods Laws indicate a lack of humility?

Deny God's Laws; basically explaining to myself that I don't have to follow God's Laws at all

Deny God; my own opinion of what is right is more important to me that God's Truth

Q. How does this impact upon us?

It is the pinnacle of arrogance to think, feel and act as if God's Laws do not matter Denial of the laws allows us to avoid developing a desire to live in harmony with Love It also sets us up, in our own mind, as being God's ourselves, which was the first human error This underlying emotion creates almost all pain on the earth, and within ourselves

Q. Denial seems to be the place where many of us start when we begin any kind of endeavour to discover ourselves and God. Is the world invested in us remaining in a state of denial?

Certainly there are huge investments in denial, and self-reliance is the underlying goal of denial We wish to believe that we do not need God, and can live a life without listening to God's Laws

### Anger With Others

Q. If humility is about feeling all of our emotions, how can our anger (with others) indicate a lack of humility?

More has been said on this subject in the talk "The Human Soul – Anger Is Your Guide" Anger projected towards others is usually:

The result of the denial of my own fear or sadness, The result of personal expectations or desires I feel others should satisfy for me, The result of my addictions not being met

Q. So what does anger indicate about our emotional state?

An indication that I wish to blame others for my own painful emotions

An indication that I wish to blame others for my own personal desires not being met by others

Q. If I am angry, what must I let go of in order to reach a state of humility?

We must be prepared to see, acknowledge, and feel how unloving our addictions are We need to be prepared to give up our unloving addictions in order for the anger to subside

### Hatred Towards Others

Q. Can you describe the emotion of hatred?

Hatred or resentment towards others is usually: A severe feeling of blame aimed towards others to help me avoid my own painful emotions A desire to destroy what I believe is the source of my own unhappiness or pain A desire to cause as much pain to another person that I believe they caused to me A very strong emotion resisting Love (either from God or from others) from entering us

Q. Hatred feels to be such a strong emotion and yet one we often see played out in our world and personal relationships? What leads us to hate?

I hate because I feel others must fix my own severe emotional pain I hate because I wish to deny the experience of my own emotional pain I hate because I do not wish to forgive

Q. What would be required to shift from a state of hatred to one of humility?

When we are humble, we wish to forgive others rather than hold onto hatred of them When we forgive, we also benefit ourselves, since we no longer feel terrible emotions To forgive, we must release the cause of hatred, which is a desire to avoid our own fear and grief

Living In Fear & Doubt

Q. How would you describe the state of 'living in fear'?

Very different to feeling and experiencing fear

Living in fear is when we justify the fear to ourselves, and then live pandering to the fear

Q. How does this cause us not to be humble?

More has been said on this subject in the talk "The Human Soul – Fear Is Your Friend" Living in terror or fear usually:

Is an excuse I use to prevent myself from feeling deeper much more painful emotions Is holding onto a belief that the false is True & resisting the emotional release of the false Is projecting damage to all living things around us & therefore not taking emotional responsibility Is making the people around me pander to and support my fears Is working around my fears rather than confronting them physically and emotionally

Q. I know that many of us find fear to be a difficult emotion. Do you have any tips on how to recognise we are living in fear rather than confronting or releasing it?

When we are modifying our life to suit our fears, then we are living in fear We must recognize that we are justifying our fear Then we must confront the fear with the Truth, God's Truth We must not look to others to support our fear, or agree with us holding onto fear

Q. When we stop living in fear do we then automatically begin the process of releasing it?

In fact experiencing and releasing our fear can only begin when we no longer live in it

Q. Can you describe doubt? Is doubt a real emotion?

Doubt is basically a state, rather than an emotion Living in doubt, rather than allowing the emotions (fears) under the doubt to surface:

I seek other people who are in doubt in order to support my own condition of doubt I seek to cause other people to doubt to avoid my own fear of action Doubt prevents us from living the Truth by giving us an excuse to avoid action

Q. So it sounds like doubt is something that helps us avoid our true feelings? Is this true?

Yes, doubt helps us avoid our fears, and helps us get away with inaction Doubt is a state that allows for inactivity Doubt is a justification to avoid any action because of fear But, because we do not face our fear, we choose doubt as our denial of fear Doubt prevents us from acting on Truth we already feel in our own heart Doubt is both a lack of humility, and a lack of courage

### Seeking Power, Position, Glory, Respect or Value

Q. It seems that many of us are taught by society or our families to seek some, if not all, of these things. How does seeking these things prevent our humility?

Giving of yourself to others only for a feeling of glory, being noticed, respected, valued: Often our motives for so-called "loving" action are totally selfish & self-focused Rather than "acts of love" our actions are often addictions disguised as love We take these actions because we actually want something, and outcome of some kind Whenever we act in an addiction, we are automatically lacking humility

Q. What am I avoiding when I seek these things?

I seek emotions from others in order to feed my false ego, feed my false opinion of self I seek emotions from others to avoid my own deeper causal emotional experience I am avoiding the emotion of powerlessness, or being alone, no-one noticing me I am avoiding the pain of feeling deeper emotions or facing the real truth

Q. What kinds of effects can we have on those around us, especially our children, when we project these emotions?

This is a major emotional cause for our children to seek addictive substances It is oppressive emotionally for others to always be required to emotionally support us If others wish to be in our company, they are forced to pander to the emotions we are seeking When we do not get these emotions satisfied, we are hurt or angry

Q. It sounds like in this state we only give of ourselves under very specific conditions. Is this true? What are those conditions?

Giving of self only to get something emotionally in return is not a position of humility

It is, instead, an emotional addiction

Q. So how would we reach a state of humility if we had this injury?

When we seek these things, it is because of deep emotional hurt from childhood We can choose to accept and experience the emotional hurt, rather than satisfy the addiction

### Jealousy

Q. Can you describe jealousy for us?

Being unhappy, angry, resentful or in a rage that others are (seemingly) happy: I project anger or needy emotions at others when others have things that I do not have I am unwilling to experience the deeper emotions within myself about myself I do not desire the best for others, but rather feel upset when others have success or joy I feel that others should not be successful or joyous unless we also can be the same

Jealousy is an indication that we are not being humble

Q. What causes jealousy?

Jealousy is created when we avoid or resist deeper emotional feelings of; Being less than others, being shameful or dirty, feeling powerless

Q. Can we be jealous not just of things that others truly have, but things we perceive that they have?

Of course, most of our emotions are about our perspective, rather than reality

Q. How could a person let go of jealousy?

We must be more humble, and allow ourselves to feel the deeper emotions of being less than others, being shameful or dirty, feeling powerless, rather than trying to make other people lesser than ourselves, or change the actions of others through our anger

### Commiseration

Q. What is commiseration and how does it prevent humility?

When we want others to commiserate with, agree with, or support our emotional state: We grumble for the sake of attention We complain about how "hard" everything is We want others to agree with our own assessment of things

We want others to make us feel good about ourselves by agreeing with us Commiseration is not taking responsibility for our own emotions & therefore not a state of humility

Q. Why might we have become addicted to commiseration? (What emotions might I be preventing by living in a state of always wanting commiseration?)

When we get agreement from others, we feel justified in our own course of action When others disagree with us, then we may feel condemned and lack courage

Q. When we are truly humble how would we respond to others desiring to commiserate with us and our problems?

When truly humble, we want to feel all of our own real emotions When truly humble, we accept Divine Truth even when others may disagree with it When truly humble, we are willing to be alone on an issue of Truth When truly humble, we want to feel everything that is actually within us, rather than avoid it

Q. So when we are all humble will there ever be a place for agreement with how others feel? How does commiseration differ from compassion?

We can never agree with emotion that is out of harmony with love We can always feel compassionate that someone has emotions out of harmony with love We can always understand how these emotions were created But we would never agree with them holding onto these emotions for any reason

### How Do I Know I Am Being Humble?

If I let go of all of these resistances (that we have discussed today) will I automatically be humble?

Obviously it will help a great deal When we let go of the resistance to humility, it becomes almost automatic to feel the real emotion We also become more open to Divine Truth, in fact we desire it rather than resisting it

How will I know I am humble, living a humble life?

I will feel a passionate desire to feel & experience all of my own emotion without damaging others I will feel a passionate desire to take responsibility emotionally for everything happening in my life I will have a passionate desire to be as I really am with everyone around me I will have a deep desire for God to teach me everything I need to know

I will have a deep desire to see myself as God sees me I will receive direct and indirect counsel, criticism & assistance without resistance I will enjoy being childlike even when those around me judge me or treat me condescendingly Divine Truth's will enter me easily without a struggle

How does humility relate to truth? What is the relationship between love and humility?

Without humility, Divine Truth cannot enter the soul emotionally Without Divine Truth entering the soul, Divine Love cannot enter, and we remain resistant to God's Love A lack of humility creates all human suffering, including our own death Humility brings us to life, happiness, Truth and Love

