(heavy metal music)
♪ Coiled forever in
the darkness below ♪
♪ They await for the
right time to strike ♪
♪ Defending the truth
and protecting the lies ♪
♪ Reptilian,
shedding their skin ♪
♪ They gather in masses,
encrypting the stars ♪
♪ To breed slaves sworn to war ♪
♪ The thrashing and bashing
and blistering burns ♪
♪ Death brought
forth to the world ♪
♪ Serpent's eyes ♪
♪ Always watching you ♪
♪ Without a trace ♪
♪ The covenant of the snake ♪
♪ Succumbing unto your fate ♪
♪ They've been watching you ♪
♪ Through shape-shift eyes ♪
♪ In Sumerian disguise ♪
♪ By the gods who
decree our faith ♪
♪ By the gods who
decree our faith ♪
♪ De-luvium religions
of monarchs and gods ♪
♪ The hideous
hydra takes shape ♪
♪ The bloodline descendants
of its original form ♪
♪ The dragon of Egypt awakes ♪
♪ They've taken the tablets
and hidden the scrolls ♪
♪ To deceive the
ones they protect ♪
♪ The truth of creation,
mutation of man ♪
♪ Entombed in the
Vatican walls ♪
♪ Serpent's eyes ♪
♪ Always watching you ♪
♪ Without a trace ♪
♪ The covenant of the snake ♪
♪ Succumbing unto your fate ♪
♪ They've been watching you ♪
♪ Through shape-shift eyes ♪
♪ In Sumerian disguise ♪
♪ By the gods who
decree our faith ♪
♪ By the gods who
decree our faith ♪
♪ The gods decree our faith ♪
♪ By the gods who
decree our faith ♪
♪ We are the ones who dominate ♪
♪ Five thousand years
silent control ♪
♪ Societies to subjugate ♪
♪ Eternity complete control ♪
♪ The brotherhood of the snake ♪
♪ And they will always
assume control ♪
- Right on.
Everybody, Mr. Gene
Hoglan on the drums.
- Hi everybody, how are
you, good to be here.
- Gene welcome to Drumeo, man.
- Man Ash it is so amazing to
be here, thank you brother.
It's incredible to be a
part of the Drumeo family
and really cool, got
the array of drummers
that you guys have around here.
I'm a total scrub
compared to all you guys
so it's really
awesome and hell, you
and I have been family forever.
- Yeah yeah we've known
each other for a minute,
that's kind of why I'm here
with Jared and Dave's blessing,
they let me sit in and come
and teach a lesson today.
- Well thank you Jared
and Dave, awesome,
couldn't be in better
hands right now.
- For those of you who
don't know who Gene is,
he in fact is no scrub.
Just so you know,
he is an absolute
living legend in the heavy
metal drumming community.
He's played in some of the best,
most fantastically,
legendary bands,
such as Death,
Strapping Young Lad,
Zimmers Hole, Dethklok,
Fear Factory, Meldrum,
I have a list here because
I can't remember them all.
- I can't either.
- Yeah he currently
plays with Dark Angel,
which is your first band right?
- That's right.
- Come back around again.
- Yeah we're back
at the beginning.
- Yeah as good as ever,
as well as Testament,
what you just heard
was a Testament song.
And you also play
with Galaktikon.
- Darn tootin'
- Which is with Brendon Small.
- That's right.
- Awesome.
Great, yeah again my
name's Ash Pearson,
I play in a band
called Revocation,
and Gene and I are
old pals, in fact
he sort of taught
me how to play drums
back in the day when he
was living in Vancouver.
- Awesome.
- So here we are and
also we'd like to thank
some of the sponsors,
we got Sabian cymbals,
we got Pearl drums, we
got Pro Mark sticks,
we got Evans heads, is there
anything that I'm missing.
- Boy we got some Dan
Meyer beater balls
but these are 35
year old beater balls
on these brand new
Pearl red line pedals
but that's about that,
Roland thank you Roland.
- Roland.
- Appreciate that very much,
thank you for the triggers
and stuff, we got
some Alesis here
but they're not a
sponsor, come on Alesis,
kick down some
triggers over here.
- And we'd like to thank the 35
year old Dan Meyer beater balls.
- Yeah man.
- Thank you, cool.
For those of you who
don't know what Drumeo is
or what we do here, we
do this kind of thing
all the time, we bring
out some of the most
rockin' players from
all around the world
to give you guys
lessons and we've got,
from the United States,
we got Gene here,
but we bring out people
like David Garibaldi,
Matt Garstka, Dennis Chambers,
all sorts of excellent players
and we're also gonna be filming
some course material
with Gene as well
so go to Drumeo if you want
to check that stuff out.
Also, I wanted to mention
Gene's online presence,
he's got a Facebook,
Instagram, and Twitter
and all that stuff,
and his own website
so he's got
hoglanindustries.com,
he's got Facebook,
GeneHoglanOfficalPage,
Instagram is TheRealGeneHoglan,
and Twitter is @GeneHoglan,
and that's that.
He's also been on the cover
of Modern Drummer magazine,
which is no small
accomplishment and you also have
your own DVDs, he's made two
DVDs and self released them,
and they're awesome so I
recommend you check those out.
- Darn tootin' they are
called the "Atomic Clock"
and the "Atomic Clock
the Clock Strikes Two"
and they're both available
from hoglanindustries.com
as well as Amazon,
stuff like that,
so definitely check
them out 'cause
they're a whole lot of fun.
- Today's lesson, ten metal
drumming tips from Gene Hoglan.
We're gonna be talking
about a bunch of different
stuff, some practical
applications for the kit,
but also some
conceptual stuff too.
So what do we got
here, I got my list.
Alright so Gene I'll
let you take it away
but I'll set you up, I
wanted to get more into
some of your warmups,
what you do before
you start playing a show.
- Well my warmups have
evolved over the years,
there used to be
the time when I used
to have these big
giant leg bones
that I would warmup with just
'cause they were really heavy.
And these days for
my hands I've always
used big heavy weighted
sticks or something
but these days I just,
my tech Jeff just
has thrown together
three sticks.
And this is a real
decent way to just
get the weight into your hands.
The entire concept of
my whole warmup thing
is to make things, obviously
easier when you're on stage
but also make things
lighter, and that's
one way that things
become easier.
I don't know if you can
tell but you put here,
I got the leg weights on
so, I keep the leg weights
on when I play a
lot of the times.
A lot of the times
I'll play a few,
well we'll get into leg
weight stuff in a little bit
but this is essentially
my warmup these days
is I just sit with
Testament I'll just
sit here for ten
minutes before the show
and do stuff like this.
Testament doesn't have
a lot of crazy rudiments
or anything like that
that I have to really
be on top of but
the energy is there
in the songs so I just,
for instance that last
track I just played,
"Brotherhood of the
Snake," that's been our
opening number for
the past few tours
and I'm sure it'll
remain our opening number
for a while, and
that song itself
is a good little warmup.
If you noticed, I didn't
do a big fat warmup
before that one and
that song's in the
wheelhouse to play but
I just take some heavy,
I use 2B sticks, so
I just, we've taped
three of them
together and that's
essentially my hand
thing but a lot of times
what I'll do super
quick to warmup
is I'll just do, and I
showed this on my first DVD,
little warmup, all
it is is I just do
double strokes on
the hands and I'll do
single strokes on the kicks,
and here's an example of it.
(plays drum)
There's an example
and then if you want
to start kind of
chopping things up a bit
you can start,
here's an example.
(plays drum)
And one thing that
that little exercise
does is it allows you to start,
if you notice I'm
a left foot lead
when I do stuff, we can
explain that at some point.
But if you notice in the
little (imitates drum noise)
that I was doing on the
kicks, that's one thing
that I worked on a
lot when I was younger
is that follow through,
it's coming back
to the one with things
instead of just going,
(imitates drum noises)
it's like you want
to be able to come
back to the one
because you always gotta
come back to the one
when you're playing double bass.
So when you're doing
any kind of rudiments
to help warm yourself
up or when you're
playing your patterns
anyway, fills and stuff,
you always want to be
able to come back out
onto the one so that's why I
always try to bring that extra
snap down with my left foot,
probably your right foot
and yeah so that's
a real decent,
quick little warm
up, gets you going
and it also starts creating
the synchronization
I suppose, between your
left and your right
and when you got
that all locked in,
then hey you're good to go.
- Yeah I actually
learned that from you,
I use that some times
when I'm warming up
it's good for a
coordination warmup.
- Cool.
- It's awesome.
And you got the ankle weights,
you got the sticks what else?
Do you mess around
with energy drinks
at all or anything like
that before you play.
- Well I used to be a Red Buller
and these days I don't
do that too often
but what I do have
is there's this guy
names Dr. Schulze
and he has this stuff
called Super Food,
and there's a whole
lot of super foods
out there but I happen
to be real partial to this
Dr. Schulze's super food,
you'll find his
stuff on herbdoc.com
but his super food just gives me
a super pile of energy
and that's helpful.
A lot of guys, especially
back in the old days
they would do drugs to get
up, do drugs to get back down
and I suppose Red
Bull and caffeine,
hell I used to pop
caffeine pills,
I'm sure those are all
druggy to some point
but now I'm doing the
natural super natural energy
from all that sort of
stuff and I try to turn
as many people as
I can on to it.
For instance I
turned Paul Bostaph
on to super food right
before a Slayer show
and I remember I spoke
to his tech Gene,
right after the
show and I was like
hey man how'd that super
food work out for Paul,
and he was like I
love it it's great
but I can't reign
in the ballads.
And I just started
laughing 'cause
I'm like first of all which
Slayer song is a ballad.
What are you talking about?
But anyway I'm turning
it on to a whole bunch
of people and it's
just a good quick
energy thing for me anyway.
- Speaking of that,
another part of your warmup
that it seems
counterintuitive, but I see you
sleep before you play.
- Yeah man.
- So what gives you a
benefit of sleeping?
- That's just, you
get your energy going
and I'm a huge napper,
I got my little
nap time before the show
and I try to wake up
about 50 minutes before the show
and there's been many times
back in like the Strapping
days when I was sleeping
off the hangovers
for god's sake, you
know Byron would be
knocking on my head like
dude we are in five minutes,
come on let's get this going.
And you're playing all
foggy and stuff like that.
So now I try to wake up a
little bit ahead of time
and get myself in the
zone and I don't do
a lot of prep, like I'm
not a brood in the corner
kind of guy, I'm pretty
gregarious and engaging
when I'm warming
up so I need my,
G needs his space or
anything like that,
but there's also stretches
that are fantastic
and this is one thing
that super helps
with the warm up is for
years I've done this stretch.
I start off with,
usually I use it with the
big old heavy sticks there,
the triplet stick or whatever.
I just do a little
action like that
to break the left
wrist, crack it anyway.
And then the right wrist
that's a good way to go.
That's not easy to do, you know.
When I first tried it I was like
oh god this is terrible
and now pretty quick.
And also this
little stretch here
that there's one, it's
a series of three,
that was the first
one and then down,
and like I've said
before you really feel
it right here and
then you flip it over
and you do that and you
feel that right there.
And I explained that
one on my first DVD,
check that one out.
But you're good to go instantly,
like if you can't
warm up, you know god
I need 20 minutes of
pad work or anything,
if you don't get that 20 minutes
and you do that little stretch
you're good to go in 30 seconds.
- Awesome, alright great.
So that's most of what
you do for warming up,
that leads me into
the ankle weights.
You kind of wear those
before you're playing
and you even leave
them on when you play.
- Absolutely, if
the set list allows
to have a bunch of, I suppose,
easier songs to warm up
with I'll keep them on
for six or seven songs,
I'll keep them on
until that hauling song
and the double bass
is really flying.
Like I said a million
times before you just
pop off the leg weights
and that is a warmup
right there, you are good
to go you're ready to fly.
And if you've ever
had any sort of issues
with, man I do need
six or seven songs
to warmup for that
hauling double bass song.
If your set list starts
off with the hauling
double bass song, if
the rest of your band
are a bunch of sadists
on the drummer,
then warmup with
them a little bit,
do your things and
you know one of my
warmups is that Dom
Famularo side to side
sort of thing if you're looking
at the feet right
now, I do that a lot.
That's a fantastic
warmup I don't know why,
I've always said this
is rather odd looking.
You do this little
thing with leg weights
and you get them
going pretty fast
and you just crack
all your adhesion,
you feel those
stretches going on.
You pop those leg
weights off and you're
good to go right off the bat.
Give it a shot,
give it a chance.
I used to use three
pound leg weights,
now I'm up to five
pounds on each foot
and that's cool,
I'm cool with that.
- I wanted to ask, when did
you first start doing that,
did you hear about that
from another drummer
or did you just think
about that yourself.
- No that was
totally from my own,
it was from my own
personal sports experience
is back in 1988 I was going into
record my second
record with Dark Angel
and you weren't
even two years old
at the time probably, you were
just barely two years old.
About a week before
we entered the studio
I lost my legs, a
lot of double bass
on the Leave Scars
record was what we were
about to go record and
I just lost everything,
I was struggling to play
everything and I'm like
what in the world is going on.
So I thought well,
when I played baseball
if for those of you who
are familiar with baseball.
- I love baseball.
- Yeah okay, well when
the on deck batter
is in the on deck
circle, which means
you're the next guy to go
up, usually you're there
with an array of heavy
bats or what they call
batter's donuts, which
just slide onto your
bat, you take a one pounder
a two pound sort of weight,
swing it around a little
bit and you pop that donut
off and your bat is super light.
So I just kind of
applied the same,
sort of, I guess it's an
isometric exercise or something,
to my feet, bought
some leg weights,
warmed up with them
and popped them off
for all these fast
hauling Dark Angel
songs that we were
doing and it worked.
And I later realized
when we were recording
the record that I was
probably just rehearsing
them too fast, we
weren't rehearsing
to a click or recording
to clicks back then.
I was probably just
playing them too fast,
you know you can play so
fast, it's still comfortable
to you but it's just
right out of your
little wheelhouse there, I think
that was probably my
issue but at least
in my head these
leg weights worked
and they've been a part
of my regiment ever since.
I suggest giving it a shot.
Most people I've turned
on to the leg weights,
they've gotten back
to me and I told him,
in a week your feet are
gonna be doing things
they just were not doing before.
And sure enough
next time I see them
they'll be like dude, those
leg weights really work.
In a week just like you
said I was doing things
I could not do before
and I can do them
all the time now, so it's
like hooray leg weights.
So they do work.
- Do you think that
your speed might
slow down if you stopped
using them for a while.
- Well I do go for
extended periods
of time without using them.
Like for instance on
this last Testament tour
I started letting
my warm up routine
get a little lax and
I don't think I was
going on stage with
them and if I'm popping
off beforehand, that's
a good question.
I think I do go for a long time,
it works for me and
I know it's also
a mental exercise
for all of this
so yes your feet will get slower
if you don't use leg
weights, so use leg weights.
- Try them out.
Yeah I mean Strapping
Young Lad was one of the
fastest bands I have
ever heard and you played
some pretty fantastic
speeds with that band
so I don't doubt that you needed
them for some of that stuff
- Yeah, totally.
- Actually that
kind of brings us to
the next point,
energy conservation.
You've been on tours
before where you're doing
two, one to one and a
half hour sets a night.
I mean you did
Testament and Anthrax,
you did the Sounds of
the Underground Tour,
you were playing Strapping
Young Lad and Opeth.
So not only is that a lot
of music to just remember,
but I mean that's a lot
of music to be playing
at full capacity, full
volume every single night.
So how do you stay
centered and balanced
with your energy, how do you
not tire out by the second set.
- That's a real good question
and 'cause that's one
thing that I have, through
energy conservation
and I suppose I do
have what is known
as an autonomy of
motion, I'm not very
demonstrative with big wavy arms
but I swear I will take
the Pepsi challenge
with anybody in
terms of velocity.
I might look really
relaxed back here
but that doesn't mean I'm using
some serious power
back here, it's loud.
So that's one thing
that I feel helps
the energy conservation,
if you're not being
extraneous with extremities
you get to focus
all your energy towards
your outer limbs.
I'm able to focus my
energy into my wrists
and my fingers as well
as my ankles and my toes
so that's where energy
conservation really helps.
It allows you to
play with more power
because you're not wasting
power for the show.
And I understand
the show part of it,
I definitely get that
I try to bring some
of that in there too,
however I try not
to do it at the
expense of the parts.
So that's one thing that I've
always tried to concentrate on.
So I can look like I'm
being very calm and sedate
but I'm actually
whacking the hell out
of these things so
that's pretty good.
- Absolutely, I remember
hearing about this one time.
That you use to play or
practice with a garbage
bag wrapped around you?
- Yeah I did.
- For the purpose of?
- Weight loss.
- Okay.
- That was strictly
for, and you know
we throw some vegetables
into the suit,
we make a soup out of it.
Yeah that was just,
hey let me try to,
try to apply athletics
towards this,
this is a very aerobic
thing that we do,
especially the heavier,
faster drummers out there,
the more extreme of us.
Try to apply some
of the athletic
kinesiology I suppose
towards things,
it's all aerobic,
it's all an exercise.
So hey, I see guys that
work out on the treadmill
or whatever and they
got they're little
sweatsuits on so it's like okay,
instead of wrapping
myself in saran wrap
every jam, I just
cut a trash bag,
poked holes in it,
played in the trash bag.
- It's funny, when I
first started hearing
about you before I first met you
I heard stuff like that because,
oh you should've seen
him it was Vancouver
at the Cobalt, he
was playing a show
and then he just had
a garbage bag on him
and he took it off and
sweat just poured out.
I'm like, this
guys sounds crazy,
I thought you were nuts.
- And at that time I
was a lot larger than
I was now, so the
bag fit really tight
and it was always
a real challenge
when you'd stand
up and just flood.
'Cause it'll trap
itself in there when
you're all sitting
down and all chunky.
But as soon as you
stand up and straighten
out it just, oh gosh.
- Okay we can move on from that.
Actually I had a question about,
you talk about fingers and
you talk about toes too.
And people might not
think about people
using fingers for
speed for your hands,
sure that makes
sense, we can see your
fingers moving but
you're wearing shoes,
people don't normally
see your toes moving
but I have personally
been in a living
room with you before when
you had your shoes off,
you were barefoot and we
were listening to music
and I was looking at your toes
and you were playing
rudiments with your toes.
Not even for real,
just how anyone would
be playing a
rudiment on a table,
he was just air playing
with his big toe.
- Air toeing.
- And I was kind of blown away
because you were doing it with
such accuracy and everything.
Do you think about
using your toes
when you're playing live?
You're like okay
this is the part
I gotta use my toes
'cause it's really fast.
- You know there are some times
when it's, I've mentioned
this in the last DVD
where sometimes you do
kind of have to grip,
you do find yourself,
at the moment I can't
think of any certain
passage in any of the
songs where it's like,
this is where I do this and
this is where I do that.
But there are times
when you're actually
playing when you're like,
I'm using the outside
of my toes right now,
I'm using the little
pinky toes and
stuff and this time
I'm digging in and
I'm using my big toe.
And one thing that I do
find helps with the toes
is that it's like when
I am lying on a couch
working on a part, just
got my eyes closed,
I do my little finger
tapping like this,
or I'll be tapping on
my chest or anything,
and I'll be doing that and
I got the toes doing it,
it's one of those
things if you can do it
with your toes you can
do it with your feet.
If you can do something
with your fingers
you could do it with your hands.
I think that's kind of why
is started developing that
like hey if I can
be really lazy,
get a workout not on
the kit, on the couch,
you gotta do something
to make it work out
in your brain anyway
so you got your
toes doing little
rudiments or whatever,
then it's one of
those things it'll
translate and
transfer to your feet
and your ankles pretty easily.
- Gotcha that's pretty cool.
Let's move on to the
rides, you got two rides.
And I know you're
ambidextrous but we'll
save that for later
but right now I just
wanted to address
that, have you always
played with two rides
or is that something
that you just came
up with later on.
- I suppose I started using two
rides in the latter
portion of Dark Angel's
career, the last couple
of years of that.
And that really came
about because in
I guess it was 1989, Dark Angel
was opening for Overkill
and there was an opening
band for both of us
and that band was
called Wolves Bane
and that's the band
that Blaze Bayley
who later went on to
sing for Iron
Maiden, he was with
that band at the time
and their drummer,
Stevie Danger, had
a four piece kit
maybe it was five piece,
but it was a really
tiny kit and there
were times when
it's like if Overkill
has their kit
set up and then Dark
Angel sets up in front,
Stevie who was a very cool guy,
there would be no
room for his kit.
So there would be
times when I'd be like
okay let's just set
up your kit for this
so you could play,
I'll play your kit,
your little five piece
kit, little double bass
and pedal and all that
and I was kind of like
well hey let's not
even move the ride.
Because I had been, a
couple years earlier
before that I had woken
up one day on the bus
where my left arm was
completely dead asleep
for two weeks, I
pinched some nerve
and so I could barely
do that with my hand.
And so I had to, but
I could play kind
of a beat with it
and Dark Angel,
very thrash polka
beat oriented band,
I just started moving over
here and playing stuff
off the ride and so
that started working
on the ambidexterity
stuff, it's like okay
you could do it over here
you could do it over there.
And it's not a bad thing to be,
well I'm sure we'll
get into ambidexterity
at some point but
it's not a bad thing
to have two rides,
and also I just
I love two rides
because there're so many
times that I'll
bang on a ride bell
or just something
just to keep a time
or just as little accents,
and hey you got two,
you got two tones.
And one thing that
secondary ride
definitely came in
handy with was in Death,
that's when I really
started using the two rides
because since I am
a left hand lead,
it's kind of hard
to cross over and do
like disco beats
because I'd have to do
like that sort of
thing Sean Reinert
on songs off of Human, like
Flattening of Emotions,
there's a lot of
where he's doing kind
of a double high
hat sort of a thing
and he's moving
over to the ride.
I just couldn't, my
high hat is so low
and at that time
my gut was so big
that crossing over
was not easy to do
I learned how to do
kind of paradiddles
so I could come
back with the right,
most people would be playing
the solid or whatever,
I'd be playing the
paradiddle to do it
just to be able to
come over on the right.
And this way you can
play that disco beat
okay and not have to
worry about crossing over
and it just comes in handy,
it's great for double accents,
and you could do a bunch of
tasty stuff with two rides.
- You mind showing us
a couple of examples,
of you just ripping
double ride beat,
even something off
of a record you just
played on if you
just want to riff.
- Yeah let my try something.
(drumming)
You get to do cool stuff
when you got two rides,
you don't have to go
all the way over here
and a lot of guys
it's not fun to go
all the way over here, if
you get to go like that
then you get to open yourself up
and playing this
way is a whole lot
easier than playing that
way or anything like that
so two rides are beautiful.
- Yeah I mean you've used them
to such an awesome
degree in a lot
of the bands you played in.
- Cool.
- Yeah man, it's awesome.
Tuning drums, what's your
philosophy on tuning a drum?
- That's a real good
question because I
come from the era of
huge sounding drums
where even in pop
songs in the 70s
you had massive sounding drums
and the drummers
would play the drums
it wasn't like a
looped beat like it is
nowadays in pop songs,
but I like the big
de tuned, low, heavy,
thunderous drums
and one thing that I
do when I tune a drum
and perhaps we'll get
into this a little later,
I tend not to use
a key very often.
I'll just finger tighten,
I'll start with the bottom
and if I'm using a drum just
totally from top to bottom,
I'll start with the
bottom head and I'll just,
you know press down,
I don't know if you
can see any of this
but you take your
drum, set it on the floor,
set it on a flat surface,
something where you can
get some pressure on it
and you just press
around, finger tighten.
You get everything kind
of finger tight to start
and then you start working on it
and you press down while you're,
it'll build up a tiny
little callous right here,
let me tell you man
you're gonna feel it
the first few
times you try this.
I have a callous from
30 years of doing this
but you just take your
fingers and you grind on the,
you tighten from the thread
of the bolt here, of the lug
and you press down and
do it and you just get
it all the way
around and everything
just kind of turns out even.
It always helps to
have clean lugs,
little bit of WD 40
on the lugs and take
your fingernail and squeeze
that lug all the way through
just thread it until
you've degunked it
and that makes this style of
tuning really easy for you.
And perhaps over the course
of this weekend here at Drumeo
I'll be able to get a
little bit more into that.
But you get a
beautifully tuned drum
every time and you're
not messing around
with keys and the little
dials that do stuff for you
that's a very quick
way to get things done
and this is, you
don't need a lot of,
and one thing I don't
tune to any sort of notes
or anything, I just make
them low and heavy sounding.
With Testament however we
tune them up just slightly
because there's a lot of
(imitating drum noises)
with the riff and
Testament guys like that
a little bit higher so
we accommodate Testament
in that regard like
with the Dethklok
we just go full heavy,
Galaktikon whatever,
Dark Angel really Heavy,
Death, super heavy.
- Big old tub sound.
- Yeah man I just
love that, I love
thunderous sounding drums.
- I haven't really heard
of someone not using
a drum key to tune a drum.
- Figures, most people
don't wear leg weights
and play with big
bones either so.
- You are a special case
so I'll give you that.
So with Testament you
tune to intervals maybe,
between you and Jeff
do you pick notes
or do you try and make
it (imitates drum noise)
something like that.
- No there's nothing like that,
it's pretty much just
whatever I like it at,
let's tune it up a
little higher than that.
A lot of the times the
sound guys appreciate
that because they're like
I can really get that
attack through and
Testament has a little
bit more attack, a little
bit more on the top.
But that could also,
I mean there are times
when I'm like are
you guys even paying
attention any more,
we're tuning them down.
So that's cool, but I do notice.
When you do tighten things up
you do obviously get a
little quicker bounce back
and there are times,
especially when we're
doing one of those
fly in festival shows
where you have
never seen the kit
until you're
playing it on stage.
And there's been
times where it's like
oh I see we didn't get
to the tuning of this,
we didn't tune it
up because some of
those (imitates drum
noise) takes a little
bit more effort to
get them to come out.
So that's where there
is little bit of,
obviously different
velocities when you are,
different tightnesses
create different
feels in your own playing.
- I think sound men
appreciate that too
when there's actual pitch
differences and stuff,
it makes it a little easier
for them to dial things into.
And with that in mind,
that's why when I'm
using a three tom setup
now and that's why
I put an inch between each tom,
that's a 10 that's
a 12, that's a 14
rather than going 10, 12
,13 or something like that.
Just for that
reasoning right there,
sound men love you for it.
- That's awesome, yeah yeah.
I wanted to talk
about how freaking
ambidextrous you really are.
(laughs)
Your kit is almost
a mirror image,
you're missing a second
crash on that side
and a high hat on that
side but you're doing
everything open
handed, I've barely
ever seen you cross over.
I know you've done it but
you barely ever do it.
That's pretty amazing to us
regular drummers you know.
So I mean would you throw
a baseball left handed,
were you just always
like that as a kid
and you just were always it
came naturally to you that way.
- I think so and
I've always said this
but I think there's
ambidexterity in everybody,
I think everybody's ambidextrous
and there are things
that I noticed
when I was kid,
everybody else was eating
right handed and I
was eating left handed
and I notice as
I've gotten older
I shave left handed, I
brush my teeth left handed
and I'm sure a lot of
people to little left
handed things, like I'm
not even thinking about it.
That's ambidexterity.
It was really when I had
that injury back in 1991
where it's like okay
well you really cannot
use this hand so you
better start getting
good with this hand and
I really just thrown
into the fire of this
tour is gonna last
another two or three weeks
and gotta do something.
We tried taping the
drumstick into my hand
and the stick went
flying the first song.
Now I'd super glue it,
you know walk around
with a stick after the
show just all night.
But it's ambidexterity
or at least applying
what you know over here
for right handed drummers,
if you apply all that
to you never know
when you're gonna
have to get through
a gig, get through
a song or something,
your arms cramped
up and oh my god I,
for whatever reason
it's something
that does come in handy so if
you do learn a lick over there
you should probably
figure it out over here.
It's just not a
bad thing to have
and one way I practice
ambidexterity is when I air drum
and that's quite often,
I air drum right handed.
That's a good practice
of ambidexterity,
I'll just try to do
everything right handed
and you're not
making any sounds but
in your head you
are and as long as
what you're hearing in your head
is matching up with what
you're doing flipped over,
then you're giving yourself
a lesson right there
in ambidexterity
and that's something
that really is a good thing.
- That's awesome, you know
I've always noticed that
players who are either
open handed or left handed
players always have some
really cool ideas as well.
I don't know if it's
because from the perspective
they can write a part
from the perspective
of somebody who can
do something starting
on this side, or do something
staring on that side
you know what I mean?
- Absolutely.
- So people like you,
people like Tom Hunting
from Exodus or
something like that,
I'm like man that
guy's really good,
oh he's a left hand player
isn't that interesting.
- Yeah sure.
Well that's where I
think if you're a left
handed player I think
what you're doing
is just applying
everything a right handed
player would be
playing just backwards.
And I've sat on Tom's kit before
and yes it's odd having
a high hat over here,
gotta open that thing,
but that's one thing
I've learned how to do,
like if you're gonna play,
can I play right now?
- Play, man.
- Yeah if you're gonna play any,
even a kick drum
part, (drum music)
Right there is you
notice playing everything
together, that's a
great way to develop
some ambidexterity for yourself
and there's been
many a time during
a gig where the kick
head will break,
the pedal will fall
apart, something
will just go wrong over
here and while I've got
Jeff down there fixing
it like a mad man,
you gotta switch over
and play everything with
your left foot and you
have to double bass things,
(drum noises)
Even that, to get
through (cymbal rings)
- Whoa.
- Even that to
get through a part
so yeah just if you
could play it with
your right foot, try
it with your left foot
and it doesn't hurt
'cause there's gonna
be the time when
you lose that kick
drum for whatever reason
so you gotta do everything
for this with the left foot
for the duration of a song,
or the duration of the
set which it's happened
like that before and
there've been times
when the band has come back
and said I didn't even notice
yeah I didn't have a kick drum
for the last entire two songs
and they're like,
we didn't know.
- Man that's funny,
that would ruin
most people's shows, you know
that would cripple most people
when they're on
their set like that
but when you think about
it a lot of drumming
is like working on
your weaknesses,
if you want to get better,
if you're not too familiar
with shuffles or swing
or anything like that,
those are the things
you need to work on
if you want to become
more well rounded.
And that makes good
sense if you're used
to playing a show this
way, like practicing
a rudiment, leading
with your right
and leading with your
left, why not practice
your beats that way
too, you'd only become
a better player from
that and then also
it might actually come in handy
if something goes wrong too.
- Absolutely if
you've played as many
shows as I have, which a
lot of you probably have,
a lot of you guys out there
played thousands of shows,
you know you're gonna have
problems at some point.
Something's gonna happen
where it's like uh oh,
move it all over here
and get through the song.
So yeah it totally
comes in handy.
- That's great.
I wanted to touch on some
of your favorite drummers
and also talk about
swing, shuffles,
triplet feels all that stuff.
I've been told that
your favorite drummer
is Stevie Wonder, is that true?
- Yeah absolutely.
Yeah yeah totally
to this day, fully.
I think it's because and
I've said this before
I think he is from
Mars so he definitely
has a martian
approach to drumming
which he just does
things that no other
drummer was doing at the time.
Just the way he
would approach drums.
You know I know that
maybe he's not the most
technically proficient,
I don't know
if he could do linear phrasing
or threes over fours
or anything like that
but his feel and his taste is
so perfect for what I love.
And believe it or not,
you can equate some
Lars Ulrich type things
to Stevie because
Stevie will just
drop some weird off
time weird stuff
right in the middle
of everything,
kind of like Lars
would do however Lars
creates that I'm not sure, but
Stevie's actually playing it
and that feel did not
make any sense there.
How was we able to
come like fills in
"Living for the
City" for instance,
this big old fill and that thing
where you're just like
oh god this is nuts.
But he comes right out of it
and what I've always wondered is
is that Stevie trying
to get a drummer
to play what he's
hearing and the drummer's
like man I'm trying
but I don't think
I'm getting what
you're trying to say
and Stevie's just
like oh give me those
sticks I'll do it myself.
That's the way I feel
it happened with Stevie.
But I come from an era
before thrash metal,
before extreme metal
so that's just,
the guys I grew up on
like Tommy Aldridge
and Cozy Powell, and
yeah I learned my early
stuff from guys like
Peter Criss and--
- Dean Castronovo?
- Yeah Dean came along
a little bit later,
I really discovered
Dean in 1987 so I was
19 at the time, and I applied
a lot of Dean immediately
as soon as I heard that
Wild Dogs "Reign of Terror"
record, that's a
landmark drumming album
and he later went on to
play with Marty Friedman
on the Dragon's Kiss record
and I've always admitted
I stole the chorus for
"Symbolic" from Death,
I do it on a double
ride, I think he did it
on a single ride and you know
that (imitates drum noises)
with the double basses
going on underneath it,
that's right from "Forbidden
City" from Marty Friedman.
And a lot of the other stuff,
you know the five
records that Castronovo
has played on, just
incredible drumming.
He's such a great drummer
and really inspiring
and he brought out a lot
of the traditional metal
stuff for me, huge influence
on the "Symbolic" record.
And a lot of the guys that
I grew up listening to
one thing I noticed
was Tommy Aldridge,
he was known as this
double bass drummer
but you never heard him
going (imitates drum noises)
like a Judas Priest
style of double bass
or anything, he just
played double bass
super tasty and super
funky, super groovy,
always super incredible pocket.
I would strongly
suggest drummers
go out and check out
Pat Travers live album,
it's called "Live Go
For What You Know."
Absolute landmark drumming album
so listening to metal
drummers, rock drummers
with taste and I've gone back to
Alex Van Halen, super tasty
drummer, super amazing,
Frank Beard, I've stolen so
many licks from Frank Beard,
I've talked about
that on the last DVD.
Just anybody that had
a tasty little chop
or anything that
influenced me and that's
why I think it's
interesting still
to this day, being a
thrash metal drummer,
or an extreme metal
drummer or anything,
and I'm still incorporating
elements of classic rock
and stuff like that
and that just brings
another dynamic out
to your playing.
And that's not a bad thing.
- That's awesome,
so you were into
a lot of Motown
records and stuff too?
- Absolutely.
- And you know when
I see you warming up
and just jamming along you're
usually playing shuffles,
which you might not expect
from a guy you might
think is exclusively a
thrash player, double bass
blast beat guy, but
you're just rocking along
on tons of different
shuffles and triplet groups
and stuff, so I don't
know what does that
do for your playing?
- You know what,
one thing it does,
I think it brings kind of a
suppleness to your playing,
adding some ghost notes
in, a lot of shuffles
have the ghost notes
going on and you can apply
ghost notes to all
the rock stuff,
I got a lot of ghost
notes from Frank Beard,
from ZZ Top, totally,
I didn't even know
that his ghost note,
I turned that into
my ghost note, my standard go to
ghost note for a rock beat.
But playing a shuffle,
playing anything
where you're getting a
little bounce on both hands
it just brings a
suppleness to your playing
that allows forte sense of feel
that a lot of thrash
metal and extreme metal
drumming does not call
for for it's regimentitis
for all it is really,
that's always fun
when you can show that
you have the chops,
you can play all the
stuff at the speeds
and the tempos
that are necessary.
But if you're able
to just bring some
flavor to it, that's
one thing I find
that shuffles help
me with is getting
some flavor to your playing
and also it's nice
to show people that,
yes I am known for
this kind of playing,
extreme stuff and
I'm fine with that
but I have an arsenal
of other things
and I think a lot of
other drummers do.
You know who's a
great shuffle guy
is Matt Byrne from Hatebreed.
- Oh yeah man.
- He's a shuffle master, man
I love listening to him play.
- Yeah he's a great drummer,
fantastic, very underrated.
I had regimentitis
one time actually.
- Oh okay.
- Yeah I think I
need a shuffle groove
actually, could you give
me a shuffle groove?
- I can give one a shot man.
- Make me feel better.
- Yeah baby.
(drum music)
- That cured it by the way.
- Oh yay cool man.
- Thank you thank you.
That it's funny I watched
you play in the shuffle
and then you morphed
into what I thought
was a Strapping Young Lad beat.
- I think so yeah.
- I think it was but you know
I saw the connection
all of sudden,
I'm like oh geez that is a
bit of a man that's so cool.
- Excellent.
- You might not think
that those things connect
but there you go,
it's right there.
- Yeah man.
And that's one thing
that's also fun
is doing some of
the ghost notey kind
of things with a little
bit of double kick
going on underneath
it, and a lot of times
it gets lost, the top gets lost.
For instance, in "Love" I'm
doing a bunch of ghost notes
in that and with
many Strapping songs
a lot of those
ghost notes got lost
in the mix 'cause we
got layer upon layer
going on there and I
understand why that happens
but if I can ever bring out
ghost notes there you go
but there's a lot of
times when I'm playing
hauling double bass stuff
and there's a ghost note
going on underneath
it, I'm sure a lot
of the shuffle approach
has helped with that.
- Yeah that's awesome.
I wanted to move on to
taste but we already
touched on it a little
bit when we were talking
about imitating
other tasty players.
But just in a nutshell
what does the word
taste mean to you,
'cause I've heard
you say it a bunch of
times, tasty drumming,
what dos that mean to you?
- Well I guess
that is, I suppose,
'cause I never really
think about this question,
that is just I guess when
you have an arsenal of things
where you can go
for the super blasty
thing and hey I'm definitely
guilty of that a lot
but if you try to pull it
back from that approach
and drop in some
splashes or kangs
as I have or some
ride bell stuff,
and it's also it's
just an approach
to where maybe
you're not playing
a mind boggling fill
but you're playing
something that's like wow,
that really stuck out.
That was really cool and tasty.
Like for instance,
on your magnus opus
Drumeo thing he did there're
so many tasty grooves
on that where you're just
dropping in tasty little
splashes and things
like that and god
one of my favorite tasty
licks and it's so silly,
I used to drive Steve
Di Giorgio crazy
with this 'cause when we
were just getting together
doing the original
Death record that I did
was "Individual
Thought Patterns,"
Stevie D and I were
sitting there playing,
you know I like this
he's playing me stuff
he likes and there's a
song by Gino Vannelli
called "Wheels of
Life" that's on the
Brother to Brother
record, and he was really
excited that Anthony
Jackson was playing
bass on that, one of his guys.
And in that song
"Wheels of Life"
there is a lick
where the vocal is
Wheels of life
are turning round,
(drum music)
Just that, it's just
that, it's a flam
on a floor tom but that just
it gets me every single time,
the bass has got a nice
little (imitates bass)
with it and he's like
why do you like that,
all he's doing is
that and that, why?
I'm like dude it's
just so tasty.
- It just makes you
go like, (groans)
- Totally.
It fits, it sits, it's awesome.
It hits.
- You know you did some
really tasty drumming
on Devin Townsend's
solo record in Infinity
and Terria and stuff, it's
just very ethereal playing
where I'm like, oh there's a
whole other side to this guy.
You're just playing
really open and you can
actually hear a lot of the
tasty stuff that you're
trying to do, you know
ghost notes and stuff,
you're not playing a
million notes a minute,
your moving and grooving
on that stuff I love it.
- Awesome thank you.
- Feel and meter, I
wanted to touch on that.
So you play to a click
live with Testament or?
- No.
- No you don't.
Okay is there any band that
you do play to a click?
- There definitely have been.
For instance Dethklok,
for those of you
who are familiar with
Dethklok and for those
of you that have seen
Dethklok or anything
you're aware of the
big screen behind us
that is synced up to
what we're playing,
we are sort of the orchestra
for what's happening
on the screen behind us.
For instance with Dethklok
shows we purposely
keep the lighting
rather minimal on us
because we do want yo watching
that screen behind us.
And I run the whole
show, the whole
show lands on my shoulders,
if I get off the click
then that thing
starts getting off,
people are like whoa
what's happening.
- It's a lot of pressure.
- Yeah and I've
mentioned this before,
there have been times when
the click has gone down,
we're starting the show
and there is no click,
but I remember that's the
only time I could kind of get
away with it okay
because we start the show
with the Death theme for
those of you who are familiar
with it, you know
the song and so
there's this
(imitates drum noise)
and while on the screen
that was a flash behind
me of just a spotlight behind
of just a white screen.
And so when we start the
set and it's like oh god
there's no click and
I know it's starting,
I know we're, okay
there's no click.
I would line up, I
can't see the screen
but I could see the
flash and that would be
my kind of visual meter
to lock in with that,
find anything to help
yourself lock into
'cause a lot of times
the muscle memory,
the mental memory,
I'm like any drummer
sometimes I want to speed
up and lean into things
and it's like with a
Dethklok or some of the other
bands like Fear
Factory or whatever,
songs that are played
to track to click,
you gotta be spot on with
those so that's what helps.
And one thing Devin pointed
out and I've mentioned
this before, really
Dethklok I think cured
me of this was I used to play
32nd note behind the click
and Devin really
enjoyed that he was like
god 'cause you really sink
into whatever the riff is
you can really lean into
it and lean back on it
and that gives it some breadth
so don't change anything
so I'm like okay that's good.
I never really noticed
that, that that's what
I would do but Devin's a
smart man and he's the one
that pointed it out
so I'm like okay
well I understand
that and when it came
to recording Dethklok
albums, those have to be
like super tight so
that's where I just taught
myself all these tricks
to be able to work
with a click because
before I ever worked
with a click, Strapping
was the first band
I worked with a click
for and I had heard
that a click can turn
drummers into crying babies
you know just
puddles in the corner
and I'm like wow I don't
want that to happen to me.
Fortunately I took to
the click pretty well
and I started just I
guess using the click
when you're not on the
drums, I've just everybody
probably knows this
your turn signal,
that's a great click track.
Especially the turn signal
that do the shuffle,
(imitates turn signal)
those are awesome,
I love those turn
signals and you know
dripping water
there's another one,
the tick of a clock
obviously just anywhere
you can find a meter
happening whether it's
your fan blade
turning and it does
a little click on every
millionth revolution
or whatever, just try
to pull anything in
to always work on your
feel for the click.
- That's great, I know
the answer to this
but I wanted to ask you,
do you think playing to
a click makes you stiff?
Or makes you sound stiff?
- Well that's I guess
one of the challenges
of the click and
perhaps that's why
I would play a 32nd note
behind because I didn't
want it to sound
stiff with the click
and I do find that it
is really dependent
upon the project, dependent
on the individual song
to where it's like
no this does need to
be just butted right
up on the click,
just do not waver from it.
Then there are times
where you get to
just kind of sit back
and that's kind of
what my internal feeling
is with the click.
'Cause I tend to sit
back, I do have to
kind of make myself
step up to the click
'cause I do want to just
rest just behind it,
it just feels good, but
sometimes the project
does not call for
that so you just want
to be able to move whichever way
the project or the song goes.
Clicks are fun, I
mean for me you get
to turn your brain off you
don't have to think that much,
play to the click and
you're good to go.
- Awesome, that brings
us to our last tip
with Mr. Gene Hoglan,
you touched on this
a little bit just a second
ago, mental exercises.
So that could be anything
from playing along
to your turn signal like
you were talking about,
I heard you mention
one time that you would
wait for a clock to
go to 60 and then
you'd close your eyes
and you'd count the
seconds in your head and
you'd open up your eyes
when you thought it was
bang on the one again.
- Yes and that's a
really fun trick to try,
that's a mental
exercise that you could
spend ten minutes
on or an hour on
or two minutes on, you
can always do that.
And it's one thing to...
I do this in the hotel room
when I got nothing else
to do, sit there and
look at the clock
and watch it, and do
what you just explained
and it's just a good
little mental exercise,
it can't be a bad
thing and the one thing
is that you don't want to cheat,
you can go, say if
you find yourself
I think I'm falling
way behind so you start
counting a little faster
just to make it end
on that zero, don't
do that, you know.
Just take yourself, just
put yourself in the wrong.
It's okay to be too
fast or too slow,
like last night for
instance, I tried this
last night in the hotel,
I was just sitting there,
this worked and the
first time I tried it
I was ten seconds over
'cause I haven't tried
this exercise in
quite some time.
And the next round through
I was four seconds behind.
And when I was four
seconds behind I was like
I think I'm falling
behind, do I speed myself
up just so I land on that zero.
I didn't, and then the next
couple of rounds through,
the next minute it
was like okay well
open my eyes, there it was.
Okay I'm still a
little fast, and then
the fourth time
through it was like
okay it's spot on
so that's good.
But don't be afraid to mess up
that's okay because
this is an exercise
and exercises are for
building strength,
building mental strength
so don't be afraid to
get it wrong for
two hours at a time
if you're getting it wrong
but this is all working
on just your internal clock
and that's never a bad thing.
- That is awesome, and
that is why you've earned
the nickname the Atomic Clock.
That brings us to
the end of ten heavy
metal drumming tips
with Gene Hoglan.
Gene, I really appreciate you
coming out and helping us out.
I'd love to see you
play another song.
- Sure.
- What you got for us?
- Well let me see,
we were gonna play--
- Well I'll tell you
what, let's wrap this
whole thing up and
we'll get you to play
us out with one other song.
How about a Galaktikon song.
- Sounds good.
- That'd be great.
Again, can't thank you
enough for not only coming
out her but man just
being one of the
best examples of
good, well rounded,
heavy metal drumming,
you've done a lot for
everybody who
plays in the genre,
you changed my life
when I was a teenager
when I first heard your music.
And then I was
fortunate enough to get
to meet you and get to know you.
And I can't thank you
enough for setting
me off down that path
and I know a lot of us
out there feel exactly
the same way so--
- Aw, well that's very cool.
- We couldn't be happier
that you're here man.
And again on behalf of
everybody in the heavy metal
community, thanks
for all that you do
and I'm so stoked that
you're just keep doing.
- That's awesome man,
I appreciate it man.
That's very cool,
I appreciate it.
- Well we love you man,
thanks again for coming
to Drumeo, I'm gonna split and
this is a Galaktikon
song, enjoy, everybody.
(heavy metal music)
(screamo music)
