- Okay.
So, the bad news is
you're stuck with me again. (laughter)
The good news is
we have these wonderful experts
whose names and organizations
and even twitter handles,
I see you can see behind you.
So, I just want to get right into it
so we have time for them to chat
and more time for questions.
So, I just want to re-cast
the question we started with
in a little bit of a different way.
As has been said, education was not
anywhere near the top of the totem pole
during the election and yet,
after its result, when I
see conversations going on
and people talking about it,
it seems as though people
are thinking about it
in such a fundamentally different way
in terms of what could happen,
and the types of issues that people
are thinking about,
Even aside from policy,
how much has the election impacted
the way people are
thinking about education,
the issues that are,
sort of, front of mind?
How much has that changed?
And I will let anybody start.
- I'm happy to start if
you wanna just either
go down the row or have people
kind of popcorn chef.
- Sure.
- I actually think for the AFT there are
a couple different reactions, right?
Part of it is, when you're
talking about the election
at large we actually saw
some significant victories
locally and in some states.
When you look at the
messages sent in Georgia
and Massachusetts, when you look at some
of the school board
races across the country.
When you look at some of the
local levy referendum being funded,
I think you see a very different message
happening locally of people being awake
and investing in their schools
and eager to support their schools.
When you look at the last winter
the folks in the community coming together
to support and expose what was happening
in Detroit public schools
and some of the conditions
in Detroit schools
and then really fight for some solutions
that our kids needed there.
So there is one where I do think
there are some things
happening that we need to
reinforce, we need to encourage
and we need to support
where they're happening
and then nationally I think there
was a national narrative building up
around community schools,
around schools as either the heart of
a lot of what kids deserved
and the delivery of that.
I think we saw that come
to a screeching halt
and that's where there's a lot of
what next happening.
- Sure.
- But when you look on the ground
there's a lot of really good work.
- Liz, how do you see the
role of schools changing
in this particular environment
after the election?
- So I think one of the
things that's really hard
and important to keep in mind is
how much schools have become the location
for a lot of the hateful violence
and intimidation and harassment that
people are experiencing.
You know, the country is changing,
the population of the country is changing
and our schools are more diverse
than even our adult population.
I think what is most
concerning about this election
is rather than celebrating diversity
and thinking about what
great things there are
to come for this country
that brings people from all over the world
who have all different
religious perspectives.
Diversity of identities, we saw
a normalization of some
really, really awful ideas.
White supremacy especially,
but other things as well and
we're seeing children bearing the brunt
of that in their school and that is
very, very concerning
from our perspective.
What has not changed
is the priorities of the Civil
and Human Rights community.
What has not changed is what children need
in schools and what they deserve
and what the law entitles them to.
So from our perspective,
we are gonna keep
fighting with our partners
to protect children from discrimination
and to move forward on building
an inclusive and diverse democracy.
We're all gonna have to
be more vigilant in a way
that I think we weren't even before
and that's really, really concerning.
And we're gonna have to do that work,
but one of the bright spots out of
what is a really, really
hard time for a lot of us
in the civil and human rights community
is the validation of the coalition model
and bringing diverse people together.
That's what we're seeing
within our communities
is the unity among diverse communities
and acknowledgement that an attack on one
is an attack on all
and a determination to stand together
and fight against
discrimination and intolerance.
- Sasha, Carissa, I could,
either of you can respond
to this but, you know,
I would imagine that
maybe thanks in part to ESSA
and from the practitioners
perspective maybe
no matter who had been elected
the message might have been just carry on.
We have a new policy environment,
we know what we need to do.
Is that your thinking
right now essentially?
- Yeah, if you don't mind,
I wanna just pay you back
on what Liz said about
protecting kids and I think
we saw a lot of our state chiefs and
local superintendents come out and make
a clear statement about
that it wasn't okay
for this to be happening in our schools.
They stepped up to make sure that
kids are protected and that's a pretty
fundamental thing for our state chiefs.
You ask early on about
what this election meant.
I mean, our states have been,
for over a year now, been
working on implementing ESSA.
They've been doing stakeholder engagement.
They've been in their communities.
They've been working on,
"What does this law look like
"and how are we gonna implement it?"
So at the end of the day,
election not withstanding,
that does change the game a little bit.
The law is still the law
and implementing this is still important
and we're still moving forward on that.
We look forward to working
within administration
to make sure that, you know,
we actually have some,
the law is enhanced in a way
that states can implement
the way they want to.
We really appreciated that about the law
in the first place and we hope
that that's the case
with this administration.
- Sasha, does that sound right to you?
- Yeah, absolutely.
I think just to echo what Carissa's point,
you know, our members are excited
about the possibilities of ESSA
and what they can do and
looking to January when they can have
conversations with
their state legislatures
and their state boards to really
put this vision of more of state
and local control into reality.
I know that they understand
the critical year ahead of them.
'17-'18 is the first year
they'll have an opportunity
to implement this new law
and that's really what they're focused on
regardless of what Washington
is focused on right now,
'cause they have an opportunity
to really have meaningful conversations
with stakeholders about,
"What is school equality in our state?
"What does that look like?
"How should we be evaluating teachers?
"How should we be judging
student achievement?"
So that's really the
crux of what our members
are talking to me about.
- Let's chat about Betsy
DeVos for a second.
Took me a while to get
the pronunciation down,
but I think I've got it, Betsy DeVos.
So you know, on the one hand I was
thinking about her background.
On the one hand you could argue that
with roughly two decades in sort of
republican mega donor circles,
and her connections in
the political world,
she's sort of an establishing person.
She's familiar to many republicans
who have been around a long time,
but when we're talking
about education policy
a lot of people are looking at her
and saying her goal is
to significantly change
the system that we have and that's
maybe what she has the potential
to do at the departments so sort of
maybe a radical change agent.
Which side of that is
resonating more with you
and where do you see her
biggest opportunities
to do that and maybe
I would also ask what's sort of at the top
of her to-do list at the department
or what should be, I guess?
- Well, I'll start.
I think there are definitely a few things.
The approach we're gonna take
at the AFT is definitely one
that we're assuming
she will be as activist
as she can be, right?
So there are a couple things
that are questions in that.
Part of that is how much attention
her boss has to education in general.
So how much bandwidth she may have there,
but she's been very transparent
about the fact that, you know,
like all of money she has poured into
different elections, different
ballot measures, etc,
that she actually expects
something from that
and so we have every assumption that
she will take this opportunity
and run as far and as
fast as she can with it.
With that said I think we've,
from what we have seen we, you know,
of her support for
for-profit charter schools
in Michigan, for her support on
private, on vouchers, so public dollars
for private schools, I think
we are going to see a...
We've already seen her
priorities, actually.
And I think we are assuming that again,
she will move as fast
and as far as she can.
And we're preparing for
that and we're exposing it
as quickly as we can as well
because it is going to be
really damaging to our students.
- So I know you guys,
especially you Carissa,
have state plans on your mind.
You're members, so how
much flexibility are you
expecting from a Trump
education department
when it comes to what
can be in those plans,
creativity and meeting requirements?
What are you hearing, what
are you expecting from that?
- Yeah, well you know,
contrary to popular belief
that states would just
like all rules to go away,
that's really not true.
That boundaries and accountability
and all those things are important
and there is a federal rule on education.
I think as we think about the plans
we wanna have some space to do
what's best in a local context.
I think we've seen that
having a particular way
in which to do something across a nation
isn't necessarily the
best way to get it done
and if we wanna improve schools,
if we wanna continue and improve education
for all kids, we gotta have a little bit
of flexibility to do it right in say,
a rural context versus an urban context
versus, you know, somewhere else.
I think it comes in a
lot of different forms
and we're very hopeful
that that will continue
to be the case that we're able to
expand a little bit in that way.
- Liz, I saw you give a thin smile.
(talking over each other)
(laughter)
- A lot of my comments.
No, you know, on this question
of flexibility I think
it's always hard to
think of flexibility as a
policy value in and of itself, right?
We are, of course, concerned
that there will be a failure to follow,
to enforce the law as required
under the constitution.
I mean, actually, there is a law
that includes requirements, particularly
condition for receipt of Title I Funds
and we are concerned
that those requirements
not be enforced.
I think it doesn't serve any of us
to have an unpredictable environment
where you don't know what the rules are
and where there's an effort to rewrite.
I mean, there's a lot in
ESSA that we supported.
There's a lot in ESSA that we didn't like,
but it is in fact the law that we have
and I think it's, regardless of sort of,
where you fit in the
constellation of people involved
in education, you need to know
what the rules of the game are
and you need to know what it is,
is going to be expected.
Our advocates need to know,
the Department of Ed just put out
an accountability regulation which is not
everything that we wanted,
but you know, they made some trade-offs.
It is something, I think,
that we could probably
all work with and it needs to
continue to be in place so people
know what they're dealing with.
So advocates know what
they're dealing with
when they organize themselves
and educators and administrators know
what they're dealing
with when they set about
their responsibility in
implementing the law.
So I think that's gonna
become really important.
I will say we're deeply concerned about
enforcement around
federal civil rights law
in addition to things like ESSA.
We're incredibly concerned about consumer
protections and higher education.
That's been a really
important point of progress
for this administration is
students were being exploited
by for-profit colleges
and getting them the
remedies that they're owed
and preventing the situation in which they
acquire a lot of debt
for a meaningless degree
or even if they complete at all.
So we are expecting robust enforcement.
We are gonna continue to
push for robust enforcement
of ESSA and of IDEA, for Pete's sake,
and of all of the nations
civil rights laws.
- So on the Office for Civil Rights,
the Obama administration
has been very proactive
in that area and they're saying that
their case load has
gone up in recent years.
Part of that may be a function of
the public stance that they've taken
towards issues like
transgender students rights
and sexual assault.
I'm wondering if just
the Trump administration
and Trump himself, his comments
about some of these issues
might have a chilling
effect and might cause
fewer complaints to flow into that office.
So if there could be sort of a
reciprocal effect of maybe
budget cutting in that area,
but also people just not thinking
that the Trump administration will
respond very favorably to
a lot of those complaints.
Any thoughts on that or
is that going too far?
Is that unfair?
- I think it's an interesting hypothesis.
Part of me also wonders if
just gauged on to what Liz alluded to
the number of hate crimes and incidence
of discrimination we're
seeing post election
on our K12 and higher ed campuses.
If part of the increase in
the Office of Civil Rights case load
is actually a hope people feel,
that there's a snowballs chance
something will be done about
the complaint I lodge, right?
That they're actually feeling like this is
a receptive Office of Civil Rights.
Because we've been working with the
Southern Poverty Law Center
for the last few weeks
and we've lodged over 900 complaints
collectively that we've seen
and we know from our conversations
with leaders on college campuses
and in K12 settings that
those aren't even all the...
Like they're not all
actually getting lodged.
Like they're not all getting filed.
Often times it's a college
professor who says,
"You know what, I just tore down
"all of the posters that
we had swastikas on them
"on my way to class and
I dumped 'em in a garbage
"and then I taught and I
didn't have time to report it."
Like we're experiencing some of that
so I think what we may see is
we may see a confidence
in lodging complaints.
I would hope they would continue to use
the Office of Civil Rights that way.
I share the expectation
that they will then
act on those complaints with integrity
and I think you will see organizations,
such as, LCCR or Southern
Poverty Law Center
or ACLU and others take
on those complaints
and fight for rights as well.
- The other thing I'd add, Andrew,
is that, you know, I think
the Office for Civil Rights
has a lot of important functions
and so remedying
complaints is one of them,
but providing direction to educators
who want their campuses
to be non-discriminatory
inclusive places is an
incredibly important function.
This is the other thing
we're hearing a lot
is school leaders and district
leaders who are saying,
"I don't want this to
happen, what can I do?
"This happened, how do we heal?"
I think that's the other
thing we really need to see
from an Office for
Civil Rights is not just
when a law has been broken,
when a student has been
discriminated against
is there appropriate action taken
if the school or the district fails
to follow through on their responsibility,
but for those school and district leaders
who reach out proactively and ask for help
and guidance, are they getting that?
Or are they just meeting
at Department of Education
that refuses to engage and provide them
the support they need to ensure students
are protected from discrimination.
- If you have a question you can
be the first at the microphone.
So have your questions ready.
Sasha, can we switch gears a little bit
and maybe talk congress.
So we've been focusing a lot on ESSA,
but there's a lot, I
think, on congresses plate
when it comes to education
including some things
that got some traction
in this session of congress
that's winding down
that maybe a good candidates to get
over the finish line,
what are you hearing?
What do you think is gonna be at the top
of the list when it comes to education?
- I think initially the
start of next years congress
is gonna be more of looking
back then looking forward.
I know there's a lot of interest in
moving the higher education authorization
and the Perkins CTE Act re-authorization,
but I think that the focus for
republicans who are, again,
the majority of both chambers
is gonna be looking back at regulations
and guidance to probably that were issued
under the Obama administration
and trying to resend some of them using
kind of a technical procedure called
Congressional Review Act which I think
was started in 1996,
I think that's when it
was passed originally.
It's only been used once to my knowledge
and it kind of allows them,
kind of a fast track way
of rescinding regulations
before they go into effect.
So these are regulations that the
Obama administration may have issued.
Just like Liz mentioned,
the accountability ones
that just came out earlier this week,
ones that may come out in
the next few weeks as well
they fall under this as well.
In a manner that would ensure that they
don't go into effect
or they're delayed considerably.
So I have a feeling
that given that we have
a Trump presidency and we have majorities
of republicans in the House and Senate
that they're going to look at some of the
regulations and I don't think this is true
just in the education space.
I think it's true in the labor space
and the EPA space
and say, "What do we want to roll back?"
And focus on that.
The problem, of course,
is if they don't have
that much time to do it
because under this
procedure they only have
I think two months, 60 days or so,
to actually rescind them very quickly.
So to use this fast track procedure is a
limited option for them,
but I do think that at least initially
next year the focus won't
be on new legislation
so much as what was regulated on by
the administration recently.
- Carissa, what are states
looking for from congress?
Is it, "Leave us alone, please."
Or more than that?
- What was the question?
Did you ask me to say to tell congress
to leave us alone, no?
(laughter)
No, I wouldn't say that.
I wanna just echo
something that Sasha said,
we'd love to see Perkins re-authorized.
I mean, it started
- Very technical education.
- up this year and you know,
it made it out of the house,
but didn't make it any farther than that.
We, long time, had a
project on career readiness
and many of our states are
working on that right now.
We think it's a really important avenue
that we need to expand on.
I think it helps in
implementing ESSA as well
because it provides
some other opportunities
and other ways to do that.
I think Sasha's right
about what we're hearing
on regulations and moving forward.
I will say that, like I think,
feeling like the game changes all the time
can be disruptive, but I,
what our states are
doing is moving forward
and they've got plans.
They've got an overarching
vision for what they want
for their state and the
education for their students
and they're gonna continue
to move forward on that.
You know, Liz is right,
there's things that are
parameters around that,
but they're gonna continue
to move forward on that
and it isn't necessarily going to matter.
- As you can see it's
question and answer time.
Does anybody other than
me have any questions.
(laughter)
Okay, there we go.
Thank you.
- Hi, Sharon Lynch, I'm a professor
at George Washington University.
One thing we keep on hearing about
this political group wants
this and that one wants that
and you know, there's
all this contentiousness.
What's the role of research
and some of the decision making, you know,
both at the state level
or at the federal level?
Could you talk at all about
what you might predict there?
- I can give you one example of something
that I think will be really critical.
When we think about school
improvement at large,
you know, we've done
accountability systems
15 ways from Sunday, right,
but it's this, how do we take care of
schools once we've
identified them in any way?
Going from fore models to now being
a fairly open system, it's gonna be
really important to know what works
and make sure that we
have honed in on that.
We have the what works clearing house,
but it's also important that we try
some things we haven't done before,
but we need the research to back that up
and the evidence base to make sure that
the things that we're doing in schools
are really making the
impact that we expect
that they're gonna have, so
that would be one example.
- One thing I think I would add there,
is an area where we've
seen some real progress
around school discipline reform and
what we're hearing a lot is that
school leaders and educators,
classroom educators
are really looking for
advice and alternatives
and ways to address
things like implicit bias.
Alternatives to exclusionary discipline
and I think the research there has been
incredibly helpful and
we're gonna need more
knowing what works, what's sustainable,
what implementation
with fidelity looks like
and so I think there are
a lot of areas like that.
There's been some really great progress
on supports for students with
disabilities, for example,
with a new focus in ESSA around
the English proficiency
for English learners.
We're gonna need more research about
how to best meet the
needs of English learners
in all sorts of settings.
So I think there's a lot
of really valuable research
that will help us to make sure that
all schools are serving all students well.
- Can I just, I wanna add one other thing.
Because I think there's
a new responsibility
because high quality research
follows a scientific method
and in the absence of
someone in the White House
who doesn't believe in, you know,
who believes in science I think there is
a new responsibility to make sure
that we understand what high
quality research looks like
and because there are still places
where we need that research
to best meet the needs of kids.
There are places where high
quality research exists.
We just have to make sure we understand it
and we implement it with
the fidelity we can.
And there are places
where we are going to need
to understand, like we are gonna need
lots of people to understand
how to read high quality research
and then how to use it.
- I would just quickly say there is the
strengthening research,
education research bill
that, like many bills
in congress has stalled.
I believe it's designed to sort of better
well together research
on improvement and what's
helping schools actually
use it in practical context.
It has gotten tied up, I think,
in part maybe because of concerns
over a different federal law.
The one that deals with
student data privacy
and obviously you can see
how questions about research
and student privacy might mix together
and cause concern, so maybe
if not in 2017, maybe
2018 to Sasha's point,
one or both of those might be
areas of the law that
members of congress look at.
- We have a question from an Ohio listener
on the livestream.
We're at 500 people in the livestream
so thank you people in watching.
- Yay.
- They're wondering whether
DeVos's previous work
indicates that we should
be concerned about the
fragment, the quote,
"Fragmentation of Education and ultimately
"overlooking some students", end quote.
- Yes.
- Yeah. (laughter)
- Excellent, okay.
- Yeah, so somethings I would say that,
you know, what we do know
about the nominee is not a lot.
We have very, very
serious concerns about her
attitude towards the safety and value
and dignity and respect of LGBTQ students.
That's something we're
deeply concerned about,
but the fact that there is just not much
out there that we know about
how she is committed to
ensuring that students
with disabilities are fully included
and receive the
accommodations and supports
they're entitled to under law,
that English learners are valued
and receive those supports
and accommodations
they're entitled to, addressing race,
dis-proportionality,
desperate impact across areas
ensuring, for example, equitable access
to rigorous courses and things like that.
I think there's a lot.
What we do know is concerning,
what we don't know is concerning.
That is where we are right now.
- And the safety of immigrant
and refugee students
and access to a full and
free public education,
safe, regardless of their
documentation status.
- I would say.
- Yes, please.
- What we know about school choice
is that it's not an option
that a lot of parents
can take advantage of
for a variety of reasons.
Often times with, like a
voucher scheme, for example
you can't find a way of getting your child
to that private school or if your child
has a disability perhaps
the private school
doesn't wanna accept your child
or a history of disciplinary
infractions, perhaps,
they don't wanna accept
your child for that reason.
Or you're not the same faith
if it's a religious school.
So there's lots of reasons for why,
you know, Betsy DeVos,
Secretary of Education role,
we may see some students overlooked.
Those students, perhaps lack the means.
Those students who are
maybe less desirable
to the private school sector.
If she decides that that is
what she wants to promote
as a Secretary of Education.
If she decides she wants
to promote private schools
that is a limitation
that's going to be placed
on the kinds of policies
and in terms of equity
that she can really talk about.
But I will say that she's
going to be limited,
frankly, by her own party in some cases
because she won't have this carrot
that other secretaries
have had necessarily
of a large new funding stream that she
can dedicate towards
promoting school choice
and she'll also be
limited by the fact that
her own party made very clear
they didn't want the
secretary really dictating
or incentivizing policy to states
when it came to the Every
Student Succeeds Act
that's now being implemented.
So she doesn't have as many tools
in her tool kit that
other secretaries have had
to kind of make good on
her school choice promise
or at least the promise that
the president elect has made
of a $20 billion funding
stream that he wants to
trying to push for and
as his lead advocate,
presumably, that she will
wanna push for as well.
- Andrew, I just wanna say that I think
it's premature for me to like
answer the original question,
but just to think about
opportunities for kids.
It comes in a wide variety of ways.
It can come in broadband access like
in places like South Dakota and Utah
that get access to kids of rural places.
It can come in open
enrollment for students.
I mean, we've been talking about the
lightening rod places, but
there are a lot of ways
to provide opportunities for kids
and I think we need to keep
that on the table as well.
- Sure, last question.
Go ahead.
- Hi, I'm Ashley Moore,
I'm a school counseling
grad student here at the NG Shed.
My question is, with some
of the concerns over school
climate and the potential emphasis on
career readiness, do you see the role
of school counselors potentially changing
or having more of an emphasis
in some of the schools?
I guess coming down
from the district level,
that sort of thing.
- Yeah, I think school counselors
are more important than ever before
for both the reasons that you stated.
The fact that we do have this emphasis
on career counseling and
as well as the fact that
the new ESSA law does
emphasize the importance
of kind of school quality as an indicator
that encompasses non-academic factors,
which can include things like, you know,
the school climate that exists within
a school environment so school counselors
play a critical role in
improving school climate
and addressing the mental
health needs of students.
I mean, if anything,
in light of the new law
we need more counselors on the ground
both who can advise students in the more
career and college oriented capacity
as well as who can address those,
the needs that they have
to just achieve generally.
- I would just co-sign what Sasha said
and not only the role
of school counselors,
but the presence to your point
and that is that we still have abysmal
student to a counselor
ratios in most of our states.
- They're among the first cuts
when there are cuts in many cases.
- Absolutely and if it's not already
the library media specialist. (laughter)
So there, absolutely, that is a role again
that in the local and state space
we can make use of people who are already
passionately invested in making sure
that we have the schools
our children deserve
and this becomes one of our opportunities
in fighting for more school counselors.
- Sort of, you know,
thinking about the data point
that came outta the Obama administration
about the availability of counselors
when compared with the presence of police
I think it's really
important to think about that
both making sure that we
continue to have access
to data like that and
that we learn from it.
- Yes.
- And I think
one of the things we're worried about
is what does a law in
order rederick look like
in a classroom full of third graders
and do those third graders get the support
that they need or are they criminalized?
I think that's the other
thing to think about
in this context,
definitely expanding
access to school counselors
and just thinking about the role
that school police might play in schools
and the way in which that
has a negative impact on the
experiences of children.
- All right, well we're
gonna have to leave it there.
Please put your hands together
for our wonderful panel.
(applause)
