JUDY WOODRUFF: Given this tragic pattern,
one could throw up his hands and think there
is nothing to do.
But we have to believe, for the sake of our
children, there is a way through this.
How do we think about it?
To examine that question, we turn now to Daniel
Webster, director of the Johns Hopkins Center
for Gun Policy and Research, Katherine Newman,
author of the book "Rampage: The Social Roots
of School Shootings," and a professor of sociology
at the University of Massachusetts.
Robert Draper, writer-at-large for "The New
York Times" magazine, he has studied the history
of the NRA.
And Kristina Anderson, she was 19 years old
when she was wounded in the Virginia Tech
shooting rampage in 2007, and has since founded
an organization called the Koshka Foundation
for Safe Schools.
And we welcome all of you to the program.
I think it's -- I think we all agree we don't
accept the idea that we can just give up.
We have to keep trying to solve this, to make
it less likely that these terrible shootings
happen.
I want to ask each one of you, starting with
you, Katherine Newman, what is one way we
should be thinking about this right now that
could possibly move us forward?
KATHERINE NEWMAN, University of Massachusetts:
I think we have to understand I think we have
to understand these shootings are planned,
often long in advance, and that the shooters
usually leave a trail of threats or suggestions
about what they're going to do.
We need to make it easier for people who hear
those threats to come forward to people who
can make a difference, to the adults in their
environment, to police in their environment.
It was remarkable to me in the research I
did how much information was actually available,
so much so that, in some instances, kids didn't
come to school on the day when those shootings
occurred, but no adult was ever informed.
Understanding what retards kids from coming
through with information and getting it to
the right source is an important task, and
I do think there is something we can do about
that.
JUDY WOODRUFF: So, if that is one way to think
about this, Daniel Webster, what would you
say?
DANIEL WEBSTER, Johns Hopkins University:
Well, I would say that we -- the United States
is unique not with respect to troubled youth.
It's unique with respect to our inability
to address easy access to firearms.
It can seem as though that's impossible in
a country with so many firearms.
But there are reasonable measures.
You focus on appropriate standards for legal
gun ownership.
And I think what was particularly relevant
in this case is -- and in many other cases
that lead to mass shootings, and that includes
domestic violence -- there are warning signs,
as Dr. Newman suggested.
And there are new legal tools, new laws called
extreme risk protection orders that work very
similar to the way a court does with domestic
violence restraining orders, where evidence
is examined, and judges and law enforcement
can act swiftly to protect individuals' lives,
when someone is amassing firearms and planning
something very diabolical.
JUDY WOODRUFF: So, taking preventative action
in the moment, in effect.
Kristina Anderson, as someone who is a victim
yourself, as we said, of the shooting at Virginia
Tech, you have spent a lot of time thinking
about this.
You work on it on a regular basis.
What would you suggest we start to think about
now?
KRISTINA ANDERSON, Founder, Koshka Foundation
for Safe Schools: I would add an echo to the
feelings of the importance of prevention and
look at, how do we holistically embody the
values of security and safety and culture
throughout the entire community?
So, adding on to Katherine's point, how do
we educate and prepare and train the staff
of these institutions, from the janitors,
the bus drivers to the teachers?
We have the campaigns of see something, say
something, but more proactivity and acceptance
that it's OK to speak up, and make sure they
understand what their options are for reporting,
what that process looks like, if there's a
formal threat assessment team in place to
monitor and kind of look at that individual
of concern, and then, long term, looking at
recovery, how do we take care of our communities,
because, in this case particularly, we're
going to have the students that were injured,
but also those that were in the building that
heard the gunfire.
You don't have to be physically injured to
be impacted by this event.
JUDY WOODRUFF: No question about it.
Robert Draper, you have spent a lot of time
thinking about another aspect of all this
that gets raised and then often gets shoved
aside, because people say it's not time to
talk about it, but it's guns.
It's the availability of guns.
Daniel Webster just mentioned it.
Why has it been so hard to do anything about
the extraordinary access to guns?
ROBERT DRAPER, "New York Times Magazine":
It can be summarized in one word, NRA.
The National Rifle Association is the most
powerful lobbying organization in America.
It's powerful not just because of the money
that it has and membership that is, but quality
of the membership, which is to say that they
make their opinions heard, make their opinions
count more quantifiably, I think, than any
other organization in America, attested to
by the fact that the last time we saw any
major legislative effort mounted to control
guns, any kind of gun safety law, was almost
exactly five years ago at this time in the
wake of the Newtown shooting.
There have been numerous such shootings since
then, and no political will whatsoever to
seek a legislative remedy.
And that is clearly because of the efforts
by the NRA, who have made it clear to Republicans
in particular that they will pay a high political
price if they were to sign on to such legislation.
JUDY WOODRUFF: Daniel Webster, I heard you
suggesting that there may be a way in here,
if you could be very specific about when you
move on someone who may be thinking about
doing something terrible.
DANIEL WEBSTER: Yes.
And the restrictions with respect to firearms
do not need to be lifelong.
Sometimes, these risks are really acute.
And it's been more acceptable -- and we have
research evidence to show in the case of restraining
orders for domestic violence that remove firearms
and have firearms restrictions.
It leads to fewer homicides.
We have demonstrated that actually in several
studies.
And so I think this is -- this policy is simply
an extension of that same concept, of recognizing
at a point in time there's danger.
Ready access to lethal weapons makes that
something you have to act on.
JUDY WOODRUFF: But, Katherine Newman -- or
and, Katherine Newman, what you're telling
us is that a lot of this is going to depend
on others speaking up who have some reason
to believe there's a reason to be really concerned
about somebody.
KATHERINE NEWMAN: That's exactly right, because
we need the information in advance.
And there are ways we can encourage that to
happen.
In high schools, where kids may feel they're
going to pay a social price for being identified
as teachers' pets or tattle tales, having
trusted adults like school resource officers
in the area, in the cafeteria, people who
get to know the kids, so that they can come
forward to someone who doesn't appear to be
connected to the school's disciplinary authority
system.
We found students in high school were very
able to do that and felt more comfortable
with that, because they thought that those
school resource officers would take this seriously,
would investigate quietly, and would take
action where it was warranted, because we
must remember, nine times out of 10, the threats
they hear will not mean anything.
They will be idle.
But the one time out of 10 when it really
does matter, they need someone to come forward
to that they feel comfortable doing so with.
JUDY WOODRUFF: Kristina Anderson, how then
do you get the word to these young people
who are growing up?
Every parent wants their child to believe
that they're going to be safe.
How do you get word to young people when it's
time to speak up, when it's time say, something
is wrong here, we need to -- and to go to
an adult?
KRISTINA ANDERSON: I think you begin by having
really candid conversations that can begin
at the dinner table in your own home to really
to the teacher in the classroom, and being
willing to have sometimes uncomfortable and
difficult discussions, and meeting them in
a way that they feel comfortable.
So, a lot of schools use anonymous tip lines,
Web-based tools, mobile applications.
Some schools do paper surveys.
And they just ask, who in the school do you
think needs -- is being bullied or needs some
attention, and just slide that under someone's
desk.
There are ways that someone can feel comfortable
and empowered, if they feel their identity
is going to be protected, if they have to
come forward initially, and, to Katherine's
point, if they feel they are going to be heard
and taken seriously and given feedback and
response to whatever that threat may be.
One thing we often say, is the minute you
have that gut feeling, to honor that and to
speak up.
And just with my experience with law enforcement,
I have often heard they would rather respond
to 1,000 red herrings that become absolutely
nothing than one event like Virginia Tech.
And so often it's building those partnerships,
knowing that there is multiple people that
one can go to before it's necessarily the
local police officer, although an SRO is a
wonderful candidate as well.
JUDY WOODRUFF: Robert Draper, I'm going to
come back to you on the gun question, because
it's being raised already.
Are the folks who have been advocating for
gun control measures been going about it the
right way?
Is it the approach, do you think, that's been
a problem?
How do you look at it?
ROBERT DRAPER: Well, let's be clear, it's
not the main problem, but it is a problem.
The real problem, frankly, resides with the
Republicans, who have really shown nothing
in the way of political will to address this
problem, even when it happens in their own
state.
And we have in the White House a president
who understands his political base all too
well.
It consists of evangelicals and gun owners,
and he is loathe to cross them.
But it's true what you're saying -- or what
you're suggesting, Judy, that I think that
proponents of gun safety legislation need
to be careful and not fall into a trap that's
arguably laid for them by the gun lobby by
overstepping and proposing legislation that
wouldn't be a remedy for a particular instance.
In this particular case, the alleged Florida
shooter purchased an AR-15 legally.
Closing universal background checks wouldn't
have done anything to remediate that.
So, in the wake of this, if people are to
propose legislation that really has nothing
to do with a particular crisis at hand, it
will lead gun groups to say, see, they are
obviously just using this as an excuse to
take away your Second Amendment rights.
JUDY WOODRUFF: Which is the argument we hear.
And, Daniel Webster, we go back to what happened
in Las Vegas, bump stocks.
This was this device we learned about which
could increase the capacity of a gun, and
yet nothing was done there.
DANIEL WEBSTER: Well, it is very frustrating.
And I think it's exactly for the reasons just
expressed of why we have been spinning our
wheels.
I think there is some action at some state
levels.
And I do think that part of this is putting
together something that makes sense and has
evidence behind it.
And I think in the case -- one thing that
is not being discussed in this particular
case is, you have a 19-year-old -- or, actually,
I believe he purchased the AR-15 as an 18-year-old.
We don't allow 20-year-olds to buy a beer,
but we allow 18-year-olds to buy as many semiautomatic
weapons and as much ammo as they would like.
I think something is wrong with this picture,
and I think that should be part of the discussion.
JUDY WOODRUFF: OK.
In the little bit of time we have left, I'm
going to around and ask each one of you, just
so that we can begin to think in a way that
could possibly be productive here, what is
one thing that you think could be done in
the short term to begin to address this?
And I'm going to come back to you, Katherine
Newman.
KATHERINE NEWMAN: I would enable more school
resource officers, often, sadly, the first
thing to be cut in a budget slash.
I would enable those school resource officers
to remain on the job, because they are the
people that young folks will feel comfortable
turning to, to deliver the information we
need to prevent these shootings.
JUDY WOODRUFF: Kristina Anderson?
KRISTINA ANDERSON: I would ask that schools,
school boards, school principals take the
time to create written all hazards emergency
response type plans for all types of threats,
whether it's with a firearm, a truck, a knife,
whatever that might be, and make sure that
they are practiced diligently and with local
law enforcement throughout the entire year.
JUDY WOODRUFF: And Daniel Webster?
DANIEL WEBSTER: Well, I would say extreme
risk protection orders to address -- to allow
court action to remove firearms when someone
is -- clearly has a lot of signals that they
are planning something very dangerous.
And that is the type of policy that extends
well beyond the schools, because if this young
man didn't shoot up a school, what else would
he have shot up?
So, the issue really is, you have somebody
with really mal intent, and you're allowing
them to amass firearms.
JUDY WOODRUFF: And, finally, Robert Draper.
ROBERT DRAPER: Sure.
Unless politicians are persuaded that there
is a cost to be paid by not supporting gun
safety legislation, they won't do anything.
Therefore, I think it's going to require outside
groups, frankly, shaming politicians, particularly
those communities that have been affected
by such tragedies.
They -- the Newtown parents got involved.
It's the closest we have seen to legislative
remedies.
And I would expect that that's probably going
to be the best way for politicians to understand
the emotional power of some -- such legislative
remedies.
JUDY WOODRUFF: And I heard a mother in Florida
today looking at a camera and saying to Washington,
you have got to stop these guns from getting
into the hands of these children.
Well, thank you, all four of you, Robert Draper,
Daniel Webster, Katherine Newman, and Kristina
Anderson.
Thank you.
