

### The Human Soul:

### Ethics and Morality

### By

### Jesus (AJ Miller)

### Session 1

Published by

Divine Truth, Australia at Smashwords

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Copyright 2014 Divine Truth

Smashwords Edition, License Notes

Thank you for downloading this ebook. You are welcome to share it with your friends. This book may be reproduced, copied and distributed. If you enjoyed this book, please return to Smashwords.com to discover other works by this author. Thank you for your support.

### This ebook is a transcript of a seminar delivered on 13th May 2012 in Melbourne, Australia, by Jesus (also known as AJ Miller) from The Human Soul series, on how to determine what is ethical and moral, and how to live your life in an ethical and moral way.

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Table of Contents

### Ethics and Morality: Part 1

1. Introduction

2. Ethics is to treat others as you would have them treat you

2.1. The Golden Rule

2.2. Ethics is a part of the process of becoming more loving

2.2.1. Example of unethical behaviour: interactions with the National Geographic team

2.2.2. Example of unethical behaviour: interactions with our children

2.3. It is unethical to reflect on other's unloving behaviour towards us but not our unloving behaviour towards others

2.4. Barter is usually unethical

2.4.1. Confusion is a result of not wanting to understand what is in our souls

2.5. The ethics of projecting judgement, criticism, demands and anger at others

2.6. Ethics is doing the same to others as you would like them do to you.

3. The ethics of barter vs. gift giving

3.1. An example of a farmer

3.2. An example of a carpenter and a painter

3.3. Living in a society based on barter vs. gift giving

3.4. Developing an ethical society based on gift giving

3.4.1. The example of AJ's personal life

3.4.2. Emotions and fears associated with money

3.4.3. Providing gifts for free

3.4.4. The example of AJ's and Mary's life continued

3.4.5. An example of food shopping

4. The love and fear internal scale

4.1. Honouring fear creates all unethical behaviour

4.1.1. Applying the Golden rule to violence

4.1.2. Applying the Golden rule to religion

5. Dealing with primary vs. secondary fears

5.1. Dealing with relationship fears ethically

5.1.1. Dealing with primary fears can transform them into desires

5.2. God's perspective on us honouring fears

6. Dealing with fear and anger towards men

6.1. Ethical ways to discover whether we're in a relationship with our soulmate

6.2. Dealing with emotions surrounding abuse

### Ethics and Morality: Part 2

7. Morality is to treat yourself and others how God wants all of His children to be treated

7.1. Ethics and morality need to be implemented together to create loving behaviour

7.1.1. Religions implementing morality alone have been unloving

7.2. The creator determines the purpose of their creations through their intentions

7.2.1. The example of a weapons

8. Experiments that have been done by society to discover what is moral

8.1. Learning what is moral with the human soul and human body

8.1.1. The negative effects of sex on our physical bodies

8.1.2. The positive effects of having sex

8.1.3. Determining morality related to sex

8.1.4. Using pain and pleasure as a feedback mechanism

8.1.5. The ethics and morality of choosing to have children

8.1.6. Contraception can be a natural process if certain emotional errors are removed in both genders

8.1.7. Determining the morality of sex continued

8.1.8. Connecting to God is the most rapid way to discover morality

8.2. The morality surrounding stealing

8.2.1. Anything that creates pain is a moral error

9. Examples of determining ethics and morality using the descriptions given in this presentation

9.1. The ethics and morality of speaking the truth

9.1.1. The ethics and morality surrounding the truth giver

9.1.2. Painful outcomes need to be examined over long time periods

9.1.3. The ethics and morality surrounding the truth receiver

9.2. The ethics and morality of a daughter hitting her father

9.2.1. The ethics and morality surrounding the child

9.2.2. The ethics and morality surrounding the father

9.2.3. Restricting violent behaviour ethically

9.3. Dealing with violent behaviour within a family ethically and morally

10. Restricting children who are being violent ethically and morally

10.1. Phases that children go through when they are being restricted

10.2. Learning from how children react when they are restricted

10.2.1. Dealing with violent behaviour when shopping

10.3. Advantages of being physically involved in the restraint

10.4. Dealing with disagreements between siblings

11. Dealing with the media ethically and morally

11.1. Unethical requirements of the media

11.1.1. The tendency of people to treat the media as more important than themselves is not moral

11.1.2. It is unethical to require a signed agreement while refusing to sign an agreement yourself

12. Closing Words

Ethics and Morality: Part 1

1. Introduction

The subject I wanted to speak with you about today I feel is a very important subject for your own and for other people's welfare. I'd like to call this part of the "Love in Action "series and I'm going to call the talk "Ethics".

Have you ever done much philosophising about ethics? In the first century this was something of primary concern to me because quite frequently you would see in society, just as you do today, a lack of ethics, and what I would call a lack of morality. So let's change the name of today's talk to "Ethics and Morality".

In the first century I spoke quite frequently to groups of people about this principle because I was quite often, as I am today, asked the question of, "How do I know what's loving?" Most people say to me, "I realise now that I'm not very developed in love." Or, "I realise now that I've really got no idea what love is, and I realise now that it's difficult for me to understand how to treat other people lovingly," and so forth. So I would answer them with one primary principle, which in the Bible has now come to be called "The Golden Rule". Do any of you know it? So what's "The Golden Rule"?

2. Ethics is to treat others as you would have them treat you

2.1. The Golden Rule

Participant: As I understand it, it's to treat others as you would have them treat you.

Yes, so let's just write that as a very short summary of what I used to say. So treat others as you would have them treat you. Well, it's more than just loving thy neighbour actually. This statement has a lot involved in it. If you think about it to the degree of which I would like you to think about it actually. [00:04:37.13]

You could say that you could re-phrase it in another way couldn't you? You could say, "Would I like to be treated in the manner I treat others?" You see quite often people say to me, "I don't really know what love is," and in a way it's almost used as an excuse to act in an unloving manner. Saying, "I don't know how to treat people lovingly", is a way of disassembling or disconnecting from how we treat other people. It's a way of getting away with poor behaviour. If you always ask this single question, "Would I like to be treated in the manner in which I treat others?" You would very frequently be able to determine unloving behaviour. Can you see why? Because quite often we complain severely about how other people treat us, or how we observe other people treating other people, when quite often we ourselves are involved in exactly the same behaviour towards other people without noticing it at all. [00:06:28.23]

And the reason why is because generally we have a couple of emotional difficulties and problems. One problem that we have is that we're generally hypocrites, in the sense that we want other people to treat us in a way that we are not prepared to treat them, and to demand something of another person or ask something of another person that we are not prepared to do to ourselves, is a very hypocritical state. We're just being hypocritical in that place.

We are therefore being unloving because when I demand of you something that I am not prepared to give to you, then I am being unloving to you, and I am no longer in a state of ethical integrity. If I am prepared to give to you what I am asking of you, now even if what I'm asking you is wrong, at least I am in the state of ethical integrity. Whereas, if I am not able to give to you what I am asking of you, then I am in no state of ethical integrity. And this is why I wanted to discuss the principle of ethics with you; this is a facet of love that we need to learn. [00:08:14.04]

Mary: This discussion is very topical for me. I feel I want to engage this with my soul. So the first thing that comes up for me is about my family, and the way I grew up. There were a lot of bargains or bartering in my family, so if one person felt something, we should all feel with them. So say we're a family, if you felt something we'd feel that with you and then when I felt something, I'd expect you guys to feel that with me. [00:08:54.17]

2.2. Ethics is a part of the process of becoming more loving

And that is ethical. So if I wanted you to share in my emotions and then at the same time I did not want to share in yours, now I would be unethical. But what I'm pointing out is there are layers of love. The first layer of love is treating others as you would have them treat you. The second layer of love is being able to treat other people in a manner that they do not treat you, but that you would like them to treat you. So that's the second layer if you like, but we can't even get to that layer if we're already unethical. If we're already unethical in our treatment of other people, we are never going to grow in love to a deeper level than that. And so while I'm not saying that ethics is a proof of love, what I am saying is that ethics is a part of the process of becoming more loving. [00:09:56.25]

Mary: And it's an aspect of our self reflective process isn't it?

Very much so!

Mary: If we don't self reflect, we're hardly ethical are we?

Yeah. In fact if you are incapable of self reflection then you are going to be incapable of ethical behaviour. So the reason why I'm raising these particular things is while it's not all encompassing in terms of being able to determine love through ethical behaviour, it will remove a lot of unloving behaviour if you begin this process of engaging ethical behaviour. It will remove from your soul, or confront in your soul when you're being unethical. And we can give many practical examples, which I'd like to give through this discussion, of how often unethical behaviour is engaged without people even realising it. [00:10:57.15]

2.2.1. Example of unethical behaviour: interactions with the National Geographic team

How many of you yesterday did do an interview with the National Geographic team? Four of you! You actually engaged in allowing them to be unethical with you yesterday, without knowing. We'll talk about that in a second and it's something that we're addressing with them. But I would like to discuss with you how that occurred. [00:11:30.09]

2.2.2. Example of unethical behaviour: interactions with our children

Many of you engage in unethical behaviour with your children in particular. In other words you expect your children to do things that you don't expect of yourself. For example; a man whose smoking says to their child, "Don't smoke. And if you smoke, I'm going to punish you," while they themselves are smoking. Now that is a form of unethical behaviour directed at the child. And many times we engage in unethical behaviour with our children. Remember during the discussion yesterday, I encouraged parents to restrict the behaviour of a child who is being unloving? Well as soon as a parent begins doing that, they're often triggered by guilt and the reason why is because they, themselves, would be very upset with another person restricting them in the same manner under the same circumstances. So in that regard if I restricted my child from doing something that was unloving, while at the same time expecting my own personal freedom for the same unloving behaviour, then I am being unethical. [00:12:54.13]

2.3. It is unethical to reflect on other's unloving behaviour towards us but not our unloving behaviour towards others

There are many recommendations that I've made in terms of how to deal with other people who we are often involved in unethical behaviour with. Often what happens is I talk about, for example, the emotional demands that are placed upon other people. So what we do is we look at all the other people who are placing emotional demands upon us. So when I'm discussing a matter regarding emotional demands or unloving behaviour, I'm trying to assist each person in the audience to reflect upon their own behaviour, but most people don't. What most people do instead is they reflect upon how that material affects the behaviour of other people towards themselves, without reflecting upon their own behaviour towards other people. That is unethical. [00:13:47.15]

It's unethical for me to consider Mary's behaviour towards me in our relationship, for example, without me considering my own behaviour towards Mary in exactly the same manner. That would be an unethical thing for me to engage.

But quite often we engage it. We actually say to people, "You're now doing this, you're now doing that," and right at the moment that we're pointing the finger at them, we are engaged in unethical behaviour because quite often, right at that moment, we are angry with them or upset with them for what they're doing, and we're not engaging our own emotions appropriately. And quite often in that very moment, we are engaged in the unethical behaviour that we are criticising the other person for doing towards ourselves. [00:14:35.20]

Mary: So just from what you said before, it seems to me that we can never be loving if we aren't first ethical?

We can be even more loving by extending the ethics to another place, and that is, not demanding of other people what I am willing to give them. So in other words I am willing to give them love, even if they hate me. I am willing to give them love, even when they're angry with me. I'm willing to give them love, even if they don't accept me, they don't approve of me and they try to make my life a living hell. That is an extension of pure ethical behaviour, but that is the next step. The first step is at least equal behaviour where what I engage in with you is exactly what I expect, or would like you to engage in with me. [00:15:30.28]

2.4. Barter is usually unethical

Mary: I think what is coming up for me is about barter, because many people just engage that from a very intellectual addiction based place, don't they? And they say, "I'll give this to you, you give it to me and then we're good," and that's not ethical. [00:15:47.01]

No, but it's also not honest and most barters do not involve exchanging the same thing. If we look at the system of any barter system, emotionally in particular, most bartering does not involve the exchange of exactly the same thing. So, for example, I want your approval, and I will give you your approval. [00:16:14.02]

Mary: If you make me feel safe.

It doesn't matter what the reason is. So for example; if I want your recognition or approval for things that I do that are worthy of approval, if I had an ethical nature I would also at the same time be willing to give you approval for the things that you are worthy of being approved of. However most of the time when it comes to approval, that's not what we do. We want approval from the other person without giving them any. And what we do is we enter the barter with a person who's willing to receive no approval, but is willing to give it. And this is the problem that most barter systems are not ethical in their behaviour right from the beginning. They might outwardly appear ethical, but they are certainly not ethical in terms of the exact requirement of what we want from another person, and what we expect to be able to give them. So I would even argue most of the time that we are in unethical behaviour when we're bartering emotionally with another person. Because we're not expecting the same thing we're giving. We're expecting something different.

So, in another words, a woman who gives to her husband sex wants safety in return. She does not want sex in return, she wants safety in return and so she is not in an ethical relationship with her husband under those circumstances. If she was willing to give sex for the sake of getting sex in return, now she's in an ethical relationship with her husband. And if she wants power, and the way she gets power is by giving sex, now she's in an unethical relationship with her husband. She gives him sex in order to have power over him and he gives her the power; that is an unethical relationship now, which is what the normal bartering system does. [00:18:21.10]

So I would say that the majority of times when we're in a bartering system with family members, with people in our household, with friends, with workmates and colleagues and so forth, most of the time we are in a bartering system, which is not ethical. At least if we were in a bartering system that was ethical, we'd become more loving. [00:18:46.09]

Mary: Yeah and it just reminded me of something I read last week. It was a quote from Harriet Lerner an author, and she said if only we would listen to others with the same passion and desire that we want to be heard.

Exactly!

Mary: And that's been with me all week. How much am I listening because I won't be heard?

So unfortunately people who want to be heard, very rarely listen to others very much at all because the demand they have going out towards others is, "I want you to listen to me, I don't want to have to listen to you." So that is an unethical demand. [00:19:24.07]

Mary: Yeah and very often we want someone to receive our facade, but we want the real them from them.

Exactly!

Mary: And that is unethical too.

And that's unethical too.

Participant: This is confusing me a lot.

2.4.1. Confusion is a result of not wanting to understand what is in our souls

Can I firstly make a statement about yesterday's talk and today's? Yesterday when I presented the two columns of the information about intellectual reasoning and emotional reasoning in "Logic, Truth and Emotions", during that phase many of you felt confused or at least detuned from the discussion. Can I just say something to you about confusion? Confusion always results from fear and a desire to not understand coming from the soul on the actual issue. [00:20:21.29]

It's very important to understand this because I've often said this and I'll state it again: love is logical. Since it is logical, it can never result in confusion without there being some kind of opposition in the soul to love, and so we need to understand that every time we feel an intellectual difficulty in understanding something, that it begins with an emotional difficulty in understanding the same thing. So if you can continue with that. [00:21:01.17]

Participant: I actually realise that.

Yep, that's good.

2.5. The ethics of projecting judgement, criticism, demands and anger at others

Participant: When I apply my logic to this I feel like I've been ethical, but I've been judgemental and critical.

So if you tell me what else you feel you've been.

Participant: Judgemental, Critical, Demanding, Angry!

This is in your relationship with other people? Shall we start with those four? We'll get the general gist by the time we get to the fourth one. Alright, now that means that when I'm judgemental under this statement here, of treating others as you would have them treat you, I'm saying, "Would I like to be treated judgementally by other people?"[00:22:03.28]

Participant: I mean in terms of I'm judgemental of me.

Ah, but this isn't about you; this is about how you treat others. Do you like other people judging you?

Participant: No.

How do you feel about that? So when other people judge you, how do you feel?

Participant: Well sometimes I feel like I deserve it.

Sometimes but most of the time what do you feel when other people judge you?

Participant: I actually sway between, "I did something wrong, I deserve it," and "That's not fair, that's not right."

That wasn't the question I asked. The question I asked was, do you like it?

Participant: No, I don't.

I don't like it. That's all we've got to say; I don't like it. If I don't like it, then I'm being unethical doing it. So unless you love having judgement aimed at you constantly, then you would be ethical if you actually aimed judgement at other people constantly. That would be ethical if you loved receiving it yourself. This is very different to what other people actually do. It's what you would like them to do. So we're not talking about what other people actually do to you, we're talking about what you would like other people to do to you, which is not the same thing. [00:23:30.23]

Participant: But in the beginning you said that if you're doing to other people what you expect for yourself, or do to yourself...

No I didn't say do to yourself, I said what you do to them. It's very different; what you would like somebody to be doing to you. If it's ethical, it would be ethical to do the same thing to them. [00:24:04.00]

Participant: Oh I see.

It's not ethical to do a different thing to them.

Participant: Yep, I get it now.

It's very, very different to what most people initially interpret when they see the statement you see.

So when it comes to judgemental, you don't like being judged but you're willing to judge. So, on that issue you're not being ethical and therefore being unloving. If you don't like being criticised, particularly if it's not constructive criticism or it's unjust criticism, where you didn't do or feel you didn't do whatever, then don't do that to them because you don't like it. You measure everything by what you like. If you do that initially, you'll find out a lot about love because what you like is often loving. It's not what you do that is often loving; it's what you would like to have done to you that's often loving. [00:25:03.01]

So when it comes to being demanding, do you like other people to be demanding with you? If I said, "Elvira stand up now, Elvira sit down now, Elvira do this, Elvira do that," after a while, even probably after the first request, you probably would accede to it. Because you don't like having anything demanded of you. So is it right then to demand something of another person? Of course not, it's not ethical when you get angry with other people, do you like other people being angry with you? Do you like other people screaming at you and yelling at you and telling you things in a rage? No? So then how can you say that being angry with another person is ethical? Can you see? [00:25:50.09]

2.6. Ethics is doing the same to others as you would like them do to you.

It's all to do with what we like or don't like, not what we get. There's a big difference between those two things. You see what other people dish out to us is often what we don't like, and I'm not saying do the same to them as what they do to you. We're saying do the same to them as what you would like them do to you. A very, very different principle! We're not saying do to them as they do to you. Some Bibles have actually shortened it. I'm not saying that at all, that is not an ethical thing to do because if ethics involves your emotions, your feelings, if you feel something that you want from another person, then how can you expect to not give that to that person that you're expecting the same thing from? Would I like to be treated in the manner in which I am treating the other person? That's the question, and most of the time the answer is no. [00:27:00.16]

So you know when somebody comes up to you and they start talking, talking, talking, talking and they don't let you get a word in edgeways and everything else, they just talk, talk and you feel like just being barraged upon. Have you felt that with people? Yeah? So how did you find that? Did you like that? No. So then when you do it with another person, is that ethical? Definitely not! Can you see the relationship? It's to do with what you would like them to do to you. Some people are like this; some people are injured enough that they do like another person to be in their face all the time. Then what you would do, if you were ethical, is you would be in the other person's face all the time as well, and you'd soon find out what they feel about that very rapidly. And therefore you would understand that what you want is obviously a demand that other people don't want so there's something wrong, there's something going on in terms of what you think you like.

The interesting thing about treating ethics in this manner is you will rapidly find out what other people don't like, and what you don't like. You will also rapidly find out therefore what feels unloving for other people and yourself. It's a very, very powerful way of becoming more loving, just by understanding that main principle. Are there any questions about that? [00:28:52.05]

3. The ethics of barter vs. gift giving

Participant: Just on that thing about barter, so you're saying that the world's got it all wrong when it comes to bartering because, just say for example; with a physical trade, and a painter barters with a carpenter to get something, right? But a painter wouldn't trade with a painter. [00:29:10.01]

Yeah. Why would he trade with a painter when he...

Participant: ...when he can do it himself. So bartering is what you're saying is all wrong because...

Well it's all unloving. It's expecting something from another person that you're not willing to give them. So you see this is why a barter system in the long run won't work. A gift system is the only thing that can work. A gift system is different. A gift is I'm a painter and I would love to give you the gift of me painting. [00:29:36.06]

Participant: Without anything back.

Without anything back and that would prompt, usually, the feeling of appreciation and other feelings within yourself, and if you had anything that you felt that I might need, that would later probably prompt you to feel like, "I'd love to give you..." [00:29:54.00]

Participant: You see I grew up in a European family and whatever you do, if you do, it out of giving without anything in return, they feel so bad, and they feel like they're obligated to give you something back.

And the reason why people feel bad when you give them gifts is because they then feel obligated to return, and they don't know how to receive a gift. As a society generally we have not been taught how to receive a gift because we've been taught from a very, very young age that if anybody gives you a gift, you have to give them something in return. That's what we've been taught. You look at Christmas time, how many times have you ever been given a gift at Christmas time where somebody gives you a gift, and you've forgotten to buy them one? How often do you see the reaction to that is firstly your own guilt, you feel terrible, "How can I have forgotten them?" And all these other feelings, and they themselves often feel anger, "Where's my present?" This actually demonstrates the fact that they weren't giving to you in the first place. They were demanding something from you in return. [00:31:05.00]

Now if you were in a true gift giving society, what would happen? I would give a gift without any expectation of getting anything in return. So in other words, we'd have a Christmas tree and I could give gifts to people who are not giving a gift to me, and we'd all be completely happy. In fact the receivers, instead of feeling guilt, which is a fear based emotion, would be happy to receive and their joy would be multiplied by the fact that they're happy to receive, but not in guilt about receiving the gift. So, a true society wouldn't be focussed on bartering, but would be focussed on gift giving.

3.1. An example of a farmer

Let's look at how that might work in a practical example. Farmers produce a lot of our food, is that not correct? Many of us living in high density cities are not able to produce the food for ourselves; whereas farmers usually live in low density areas where they have land that they are able to use to produce food. So, many of the farmers also enjoy doing that as a job. They enjoy being on the land, working on the land and if you've ever done it yourself, you'd realise why, because you feel a deep connection for the land and a deep connection of things around you. And there's a lot of joy you can receive when you're in that place of farming. [00:32:29.09]

We, as a community, expect the farmer to pay for the implements that he farms with. This is an amazing and very stupid and idiotic thing for us to expect actually. We should be giving him the implements to farm with. He is producing one of our essential items – food - without which we won't have very much long term survival ability. And yet instead of helping him do that for us, we ask him to pay to do that for us. [00:33:11.00]

Now of course the farmer then, in receiving this demand, feels that he wants to be paid for his service. Many of the farmers would be very, very happy to produce all the food that they want that their land could produce for free, if they had been given everything they need to do such a thing. In fact I personally know many farmers who would be very happy to do that. Many persons who are in their passion on the land wanting to grow things for other people, wanting to do things for other people would be very, very happy to receive a heap of things; fuel and seeds and equipment to do this for you, for society. And they'd just feel immense joy of not having to worry about money ever again. Ever again! [00:34:02.22]

If it's a bad year they don't have to worry about paying off any debt, they don't have to worry about paying off any land, they don't have to worry about paying off any people because all of the things they need, even during a bad year, are going to be supplied to them, because they have this desire to produce our food. Now that is a gift giving society where the farmers wanting to give the gift of his effort to society, and society wants to give the gift of all the tools and implements and all the resources and everything else he needs to get that done. You imagine that society in comparison to the society that we live in today. [00:34:42.15]

A society we live in today is an economic society based on the bartering system, if you think about it. It's like paying for resources. So the people who produce the tractors get fed at some point by the farmer and yet they want the farmer to pay for the tractor that the farmer then uses to produce the food that the guy who made the tractor needs to live. Now that all could be circumvented if we had a gift giving society, but to have a gift giving society we've all got to be far more trustworthy and trusting than we currently are. [00:35:20.13]

3.2. An example of a carpenter and a painter

If we have a barter society, what we finish up with is the painter and the carpenter negotiating. The painter says, "I'll do three days work for you, you do three days work for me." Now three days work from the carpenter might result in half the wall being done, whereas three days work from the painter might result in a whole house being painted. So how do we evaluate its worth? It's impossible to evaluate its worth properly and realistically. [00:35:57.21]

However, if the painter gives the gift of his time to the person and the painter at the same time receives all of the things he needed to do it; like food, shelter, clothing, paint, resources, whatever he needed to do the job, and then he wouldn't be worried about how much it costs. If he was happy to paint, he'd just be happy to paint, and if he's not happy to paint then he'd find another job that he's happy to do. [00:36:25.13]

3.3. Living in a society based on barter vs. gift giving

And people argue with me a lot about the fact that this is an impractical thing in a social environment. Well I'd argue that all through the spirit world this is exactly what happens for a start. So there are many social environments in the spirit world and this is what happens, so I don't agree that it's not a practical thing. Secondly, if you look at what we're currently doing, what we're currently doing is crazy. Right now you are paying for essential things that you need for your very life to be sustained. For example, here in the city you are paying for your water. Without water you'll die, and yet you're paying for it. You're paying for your food, without food you'll die, particularly if we've got an emotional injury that causes us to eat a lot more. We'd definitely pass in a very quick time without food. [00:37:22.06]

So without those two resources we'll die and yet we have to pay for them. In fact you look at how much of your so called budget for a week goes towards those two resources. Less so towards water, although if you're looking at drinking water that's actually tasting nice to drink... then the average person would need around three to four litres a day if we were honest with ourselves and looked after ourselves. Now the cheapest water you can buy is about a dollar a litre. So we're talking four dollars a day times by seven days, twenty eight dollars a week. If you've got a family of four, that's a hundred and twenty dollars a week for good water to drink. Now this is why many of us don't drink good water. We drink the water that's been treated and it's got all chemicals in it through the treatment process and so forth, because it would just cost too much to even buy decent water to drink. [00:38:20.13]

Then let's look at what we eat. How many of us would spend a good couple of hundred bucks a week at least on food? Particularly for a family, you'd be looking at probably three, even four hundred bucks a week on food easily in some cases. You add those two resources together; let's say there's on average four to five hundred dollars if you actually pay for your water. There'd be four or five hundred dollars of your resources per week that would go on food and water to essential things for your life. We haven't even talked about shelter yet or clothes, which are also needed particularly in a cold environment. [00:38:58.14]

But just those first two things, now how much wage do you actually earn, the average person? Well let's say in Australia the average wage, which is very different from the lowest person's wage, might be around fifty thousand per annum let's say. Take out taxation, now its forty thousand per annum or forty two thousand per annum, and then if you look at six hundred dollars per week how much does that add up to? Six hundred dollars per week, fifty two weeks in the year, is about thirty thousand dollars per annum. So now you've got ten thousand dollars per annum to do things other than the essential things for your life. And when you think about that, you've now got to include shelter and clothing in that other ten thousand dollars and so forth. Can you see why most people are finding it very, very difficult to make ends meet? And so what do they feel? Huge amounts of fear about money. This is part of the problem. [00:39:56.16]

And the reason why is because we're all engaged in this barter system, the whole world has been engaged for millennia in this bartering system because none of us are emotionally capable yet of moving from that system to a gift giving system. And when I say emotionally capable, we're not emotionally capable of becoming more loving it seems for many, many millennia. For thousands and thousands of years we have not been emotionally capable of moving from this low development society where everybody barters with each other constantly, and tries to get as much for as little as they can; to a gift giving society where we're willing to give everything without getting anything in return. It's completely the opposite mentality, and completely the opposite development in love is required for those two states. [00:40:53.05]

When we enter a gift giving system, we are now behaving even more ethically because we no longer have demands upon other people. So we're now in a very ethical transaction with another person. We're doing for them exactly what we would love them to do for us. So that is a very highly ethical proposition, and therefore a highly ethical society. Now we are capable, with our mankind's intellect, we are capable of developing this kind of society. We are capable of its development, as long as we address the emotional impediments inside of us that cause us to be so unloving as to be resistive to such a society. We have the intellectual cleverness and the capacity to love that would allow us to do it, but it's a matter of developing ourselves in such a manner that eventually it gets whole groups of people into that condition.

So the beauty of examining this question of ethics, and the reason why I'm sort of starting to raise the subjects of love in action, like how does love look like when it's acted upon, is because it helps you start to analyse what's happening inside of yourself that causes you to not be able to act in a manner that would be more ethical and therefore more loving. It causes us to be more circumspect regarding yourself. Now I'm not suggesting you need to punish yourself for your past behaviour and inaction. I'm not suggesting we need to do that. What we need to do instead is to love ourselves enough to move from the unethical behaviour that we currently get involved in, into a place of higher ethics and therefore higher love. [00:42:49.26]

Now this matter is immaterial of whether we want to connect to God or not. The only way for our society to actually develop further is for all of us to change the way we view society, and our demands upon it. That's the only way it's going to become better than it currently is. We can continue doing exactly the same thing that we are currently doing, and then we'll end up with exactly the same results as we have ended up with for thousands of years. Do those results appeal to you? Do you like the fact that you spend five hundred dollars a week of your money having to live? Do you like the fact that if you don't earn those five hundred dollars you're stressed, fearful, afraid of the outcome, afraid of what's going to happen to you and afraid of your life? Do you like that? Because if you don't like that, why are we doing it? We need to change what we do. [00:43:48.24]

So we need to become more developed even in our logical way of looking at life. And the reason why we are not more logical is because there are emotions in us that prevent us from becoming logical. We often view everything as normal as what we currently have. It's like what we raised yesterday, in our discussion about "Logic, Truth and Emotions". Remember I started talking to you yesterday about what we view as normal with regards to ourselves, and then what God views as a mess in comparison to normal. And we need to also see it from society, what we view in society as normal.

So it is normal to pay in society. It is normal to pay for your water. It is normal in society to pay for your food. It is normal in society to pay for your shelter. Is it normal in society that if you're distressed that you pay for your medical? You can even be dying and you still have to pay for your medical. Somebody's going to have to pay for our medical because that's demanded of us. Our clothing, all essential items for a society that's developed, and yet every one of those things we have to pay for them. And because we have to pay for it, we expect everybody else to have to pay for anything we supply. [00:45:36.12]

If I've got to pay for water, then of course I want you to pay for water, and if I've got to pay for shelter then I want you to pay for shelter, and if I create your shelter, I definitely want you to pay me for your shelter. But these are all essential items. It doesn't make logical sense in any developed society that we pay for these essential items. [00:46:01.03]

I can understand you paying for non essential items. For example, you want a piece of art on your wall, well your wall can exist and you can exist without a piece of art on it. And if you want a piece of art on your wall, I can understand that you might need to pay for that piece of art to be placed on your wall from somebody who'll make that piece of art. I can understand that you might need to pay for music. You are totally capable of creating your own music and therefore if you want music from another source, then I can sort of understand why a developed society might ask you at some point to pay for that music, particularly if it uses a lot of resources to create. But I do not understand, in a developed society, why we have to pay for our medical, our shelter, our food, our water and our clothing and even our funeral. (Laughter)

Well the reality is that the energy needed to produce all of these things is freely abundant to all of us. That's the reality. And the earth itself has methods that we can use to produce this energy. We receive enough energy from the sun to do all of these things, is that not true? To provide for all of these things for free and yet we don't. And we think we're developed, we think we are actually logical and I'm saying we're definitely not logical, and we're definitely not developed if we think that paying for this makes any sense logically, or ethically. [00:47:49.11]

It doesn't make any ethical sense that a person has to pay for their own medical expenses. You think about the ethical implications. How would you like it if you're incapacitated? Your legs broken, you can't work, you can't do anything and then have to pay for the fact that your leg's broken after you've also been laid up for six weeks and unable to do anything. Now I can understand why a person might need to pay for self destructive medical expenses. In other words, if a person drinks himself into oblivion and then has to have his liver removed and/or kidneys replaced through some donor process, then I can understand completely why he should have to pay for that particular operation. I do not understand why an accident would be something that we'd need to pay for. [00:48:45.23]

Now I know in the end that you could argue that the Law of Attraction has brought you the accident, and there are all these emotions involved in the accident, and there are ways to deal with all of that in an ethical society. However, if we love other people, no matter what accident has befallen them, we'd want to help them, would we not? And we wouldn't want to add to their burden by now asking them to pay for us helping them. [00:49:14.20]

So anybody who provides any of these particular things should be given all the resources and everything they need to provide these things. In a society that is logical and ethical, we should not demand that any person who supplies any of these things actually has to pay for anything, because these are all essential things that we need in society. We need enough water, food, shelter, medical attention, clothing and funerals to be happening because these are all a fact of our current life. Now I'm not saying they are a fact of our future life, but what I'm saying is that they are a fact of our current life, and we can easily raise the entire consciousness of mankind by just changing the way we do a few things with those basic particular things that we need. [00:50:12.22]

So there would no longer be sweat shops where they get paid a dollar a month or a dollar a week to produce your clothes. They'd be given all the food they need, all the material they need, all the things they need, all the equipment they need, all the tools they need to produce your clothes, if they wanted to produce your clothes because that is ethical. We would be doing for them what we would like to be done to ourselves. [00:50:43.06]

It's also logical if you think about it. Why would you want something that you desperately need from another person such as water or food, and then force the person who's producing such a thing that is essential for your own life to actually pay for doing you the service? Why would you ever want that? It does not make any sense whatsoever. [00:51:06.08]

So my feelings are that we are totally capable as a human race to change what we do from this unethical, economical bartering system that we currently have, into a purely ethical, particularly with the basic essentials of life, into a purely ethical delivery of services that we are able to achieve as a human race. We're totally capable of this; it's just whether we want to do it enough or not, as to whether we'll do it. We are totally capable of it. [00:51:48.01]

3.4. Developing an ethical society based on gift giving

Participant: It's all okay listening to it, but how do we start as a society to do all these things? [00:51:55.16]

I was waiting for somebody to ask that very question. We have to change our way of feeling, as an individual, firstly. We need to start with ourselves. I cannot expect water to be provided to me for free while I'm demanding that whatever I provide to the world isn't for free. So in other words we've got to stop this whole concept of working for a wage inside of us.

3.4.1. The example of AJ's personal life

Now I've stopped it inside of me; I don't work for a wage as you know. What happens with myself and what I've been trying to show you through my example is that I give you talks, or all the things I love doing are given to you for free. Now a lot of times people, because of their appreciation of the things they are receiving, they give me some money, which Mary and I can live on and it's just wonderful. I feel our life is so amazingly wonderful because I get to do exactly what I want all the time, and yet other people give me enough funds to do it. They also give me more funds than that and so all of the funds I get in addition, I give back to them. By producing DVDs and doing more things that I'm capable of doing. [00:53:20.02]

I'm actually hopeful in the future that I can have a team of people, a team of twenty, forty, sixty people providing all these same services all over the world and eventually a hundred, two hundred, five hundred, a thousand people. That's how much I would love to receive in order to be able to give all of those things. I would love to receive a lot more than I'm currently receiving so that I can use all of that because my life's happy. I would like to help a lot more other people's lives to be happy in the same manner by doing things for other people in the same manner, and receiving appreciation in the same manner. [00:53:55.21]

Eventually we'll get to the point where it won't even be monetarily based. It'll be like we get all the food we need, we get all the clothes we need, and we get all the shelter we need. We go from place to place and who cares whether you even have a home after that. You know that you're just going to be doing what you like doing in any direction, and there'll be somebody there who loves it enough that they'll want to give you something in return, to look after these basic necessities.

But for that to occur in society, I have to first change. I have to first do it. So a lot of people who have businesses ask me, "How can I bring my business in harmony with God's Love?" My first answer to them is this: "Don't charge anymore an hourly rate, and don't charge for your service anymore." You know what, there's a couple of people I know who've done that, but almost every person who's heard that doesn't take that very first step. The reason why is because they have got so many emotions in them that they can't do it, that they're not prepared to address those emotions and actually release that and work through the issues involved. [00:55:12.01]

So I've had to do that myself and I've done that many years ago where I've released the emotions involved with that. And so that's why myself and Mary have this life now where we can go around doing all these different things, enjoying our interactions with everyone, helping everyone, we just get a lot of joy out of all of that, and on top of that we get so much appreciation that we are able to survive without having to go out and work. Mary's an occupational therapist and she could go out to work and earn sixty or seventy grand a year full time, probably a bit more than that, it depends where. And for myself, I was earning six hundred thousand dollars a year before I began doing this. So I'm capable of earning a lot more money than I'm currently earning doing something I don't like, as are many of you capable of earning things from what you don't like. [00:56:08.11]

But the life we live now, we have about fifteen hundred to two thousand dollars a month that we utilise for ourselves in terms of our food and our clothing. We've paid for our shelter, and the rest of the money that we receive just goes straight back into delivering more of what we can do for everyone else, because we don't need any more than that. But we don't even think about money as a result, aside from we sit down sometimes and have these little sessions of how we can best utilise those funds. So our bank account is generally close to zero. Every single week our bank account is close to zero. At the moment we've just been given a donation from somebody that will enable us to produce probably four or five thousand DVDs. So all we're doing is we get those donations and away we go with that because we don't need it.

Our life's great, we don't need more ourselves. But you have to work in your passion, and as you engage the gift giving kind of life where you're giving the gift of your time to other people, you'll find that it's just incredibly satisfying. You will have changed, even though you're living in a society that hasn't changed yet. So myself and Mary are able to still live in this society that hasn't changed, which is not focussed on gift giving it's focussed on bartering. The main reason why is because people's hearts are involved in the exchange, and when their hearts are involved in the exchange, they feel appreciative, and so we end up getting all the things we need as a result. So that's how you do it. You take the first step of changing how you earn your money yourself. It's very confronting. Almost every person I know who I've said that to has not changed that first step. [00:58:10.12]

3.4.2. Emotions and fears associated with money

Participant: So is it to do with the emotion of why you have to work for a wage? [00:58:15.02]

Honestly, when it comes to money we have a large number of emotions that are associated with money and the reason why we do what we do, the largest emotion that we have, is fear. We are afraid that bills that we have and other things will not get paid. We're afraid of being put in jail, we're afraid of having to declare bankruptcy and then what will we do? We're just so afraid. We're afraid of everything. We're afraid of how it looks to other people. We're afraid of where we are going to get the money from. We're afraid of how are we going to live, how we're going to eat, where we're going to sleep if we don't have all this money coming in. Fear is our primary reason. [00:59:00.02]

Once you confront this issue of bartering in the financial world, you realise that you've got a lot of fear, a lot more fear than you ever realised you had before because we now accept this fear as normal, and so when we go out and earn the money, we're really pandering to the fear. We're really saying, "This is the only way I can make this fear go away." So what we do is we make the fear go away by action. So we take action to make the fear go away, and the action we take is to go and get a job we don't like and work in it for forty hours a week, but we don't want to work in it for forty hours, we probably prefer twenty or twenty five or whatever it is. And to be frank if it's a job we don't like, we probably want to work zero hours. [00:59:46.09]

For most of us, if we had a job we like what would we do? Would you care about whether you worked a hundred hours a week if it was what you loved doing? You wouldn't would you? You'd go, "What do you mean work? I'm not working." Myself and Mary don't think going around doing all of this as work because it's not. For us it's just like this is our joy, this is our passion how could you view it as work? And the reality is the majority of us are not willing to even find something we desire to do that passionately, where we are willing to take the risk of losing everything to do. [01:00:24.13]

So there are so many fears. So when you first confront the emotion inside of yourself of why you do everything for money, the biggest emotions will come up relating to fear. And of course fear suppresses desire. So every time you're afraid, you're going to go, "No I don't really think that I would like that particular job." You convince yourself of things that are not true when you're in that state of fear. [01:00:51.00]

So you go inside of yourself and say, "You know, I'd really like to do music but I don't want to do it that much that I'm broke doing it." Or, "I'd really like to do art, that's the thing I'm really passionate about but I'm not good at it. I don't do it good enough to sell." That's what we initially start out with as well. It's this whole idea that we're not good enough, nobody's going to pay for it and all of these kinds of things which are all just fears that we have. There's a long list of them that we can address by just doing a few basic things with our life and taking action. So that's what I would do. That's what I've done and I can say it works because I've done it. [01:01:37.02]

3.4.3. Providing gifts for free

Participant: For me and my music, people won't even let me do a gig unless I give them a fee. Or with the school that I'm working at, I had to come up with a fee, otherwise I wouldn't be able to be in my desire in that school, because it's part of the ethics of the world at the moment that I need to have a fee to be in the school.

I'd just say to them look you're going to have to work through that issue. I'm perfectly willing to give the gift of my time for free, and I'm willing to do it for free. But the reality is I also need to live and so I can't do it for free if I don't receive anything. You're going to have to work out what you feel it's worth. [01:02:21.24]

Participant: Yeah I've done that. So it's been okay but I'm just thinking some people...

You think what we do in these presentations, what do we do? The reality is, most of you have never heard the truth I'm giving to you before now because it hasn't been presented before on Earth. Secondly it's going to affect your entire life, is it not? Like everything in your life is going to be affected by the things I'm presenting to you. So an essential like Divine Truth is on there as essential, right? (Laughter) I said to Mary yesterday, "I find it really, really interesting the very thing that is the most essential thing in everybody's life they've already received for free." Already receiving it for free, Divine Truth you're already receiving for free. Isn't that wonderful? [01:03:20.10]

So they are essential parts of your life. So the way I view it is that Divine Truth is an essential thing for everybody on the planet. I've got to give it to everybody, and I had a lot of fear at the start. I had a lot of fears about even receiving, so what I did was I got all the money that I'd saved up through this process of working for thirty years; I had houses and other things, and I just sold them and sold them and sold them and used all that money to do it. [01:03:52.03]

Five years later what happened? I was broke because I'd used all the money and I hadn't worked through the receiving part of giving. I just felt terrible amounts of guilt about receiving anything, so I hadn't worked through that. When I had no money then I had to work through that. I had to work through the fact that actually why am I blocking everybody from giving back to me? I had to work through that. What guilt, what emotions in me caused me to block that? I had to work through those emotions in order to be able to receive. Once I started working through those emotions, I started receiving enough eventually for myself and Mary to live on, so that we can continue to do what we're doing. That's what you need to do, exactly the same thing. [01:04:42.20]

Participant: So I'm getting a picture of everybody living from their desire, everybody being in a space of giving and receiving unconditionally... yeah? It kind of reminds me... there's a book about warm fuzzies... [01:05:06.02]

Yes I've read one of those.

Participant: It kind of reminds me of the giving of love and warm fuzzies, and those who get really possessive and fearful actually give out cold pricklies (Laughter). Anyway that's all I wanted to say. [01:05:23.11]

Yeah and that's very true in terms of emotions.

Mary: You're talking about a society where at the moment we're just been driven by guilt rather than gratitude. What happens with you is that people's hearts are involved and the gratitude inspires them. Whereas guilt is a fear based thing, and it constricts everything doesn't it? [01:05:57.19]

Guilt doesn't inspire us; it really destroys our life. When gratitude inspires us it causes us to go in all sorts of directions we wouldn't have imagined before. [01:06:08.02]

3.4.4. The example of AJ's and Mary's life continued

Mary: I was just going to share about the feelings that came up because now I'm in the process of what you went through. So until now I've sort of been relying on you and carrying quietly all my money based emotions. So I made a decision at the start of the year that I wanted to address it, and that affected our collective income or gifts. [01:06:32.10]

Yeah as soon as I just claimed any responsibility for producing anything in our life, and I placed the responsibility on Mary to begin doing some of that, our resources went from having a regular flow of funds where we could produce DVDs and send out things and all these other things, to having nothing in the space of about a week, because I spent everything. I spend everything I get. (Laughter) So it was all spent within a week and there was nothing coming in after that.

Mary: Yeah and that was great because that showed me where I'm at, even though I felt a bit guilty. But what I was going to say, you were talking about fear and I know I had fear, but something that I'm seeing more and more is that I equate money with love. I notice when I feel that I really give of myself in a presentation I actually receive less donation, and that's triggering this feeling I have that if I give my real self I won't receive love. So it's just surprising what comes up when you engage this process. I thought it would be fear of not living or something but it's all about just me, I'm not loveable. [01:07:48.09]

As are all of our creations, yeah. That's very true. So does everyone understand that with Mary? Mary began engaging this process of attempting to address the issues of why she felt she wasn't able to create and therefore felt limited by funds, so Mary has a lot of belief systems about money. She only wants enough; I want mega bucks. (Laughter) [01:08:20.24]

The reason why I want mega bucks is I know exactly what I'm going to do with it, and I've already decided what I'm going to do with it. It's not for me; at the end of the day it's not going to be for me. We're probably still going to live in our little two bedroom home on forty acres, exactly the same way as we're always going to live. We're very, very happy there, and I can't imagine ever changing that. We don't need more personal resources at all than what we're currently getting, we don't need more at all, but I would love to have the funds to do huge amounts of things all over the Earth. Wouldn't you? Of course you would. [01:08:56.03]

So I don't have those blockages, whereas Mary has those blockages about the responsibility of finances. So Mary's got these issues with responsibility, she's got the issue she wants just enough, but not too much. She's got issues of being judged by the world if we have too much or what's perceived as too much. So all of these things prevent the reception of more in terms of gifts, prevent gifts from being given you see as a soul transaction. The problem with that is that we then have to go back to the barter system to survive, which is no good. We want to be fully engaged in the gift giving system, which is ethical. [01:09:43.14]

Mary: And I don't want to do that because I do think Divine Truth, or God, is on that list of essentials. So I don't want to charge anyone.

I feel Divine Truth is on the list as well, but I'll cross it off the list because it's not essential for a physical life. It is essential for emotional health, your long term survivability all through the universe. But the things that are essential for your physical life surely should at least be available to you, and they surely should be given as gifts rather than expectations. [01:10:21.19]

To engage such a life requires a lot of courage, doesn't it? To fully engage ethics, right across the board, requires a lot of courage and it did require a lot of courage for myself. And as Mary is finding out now as she's engaging the same emotions, it requires a lot of her courage as well. And it will require a lot of your courage to actually change and have the courage to deal with the fears that come up as a result. [01:10:50.23]

The beauty of doing it though is that it's so amazing, and this is something that I don't believe anybody in Western society really understands. It is so amazing to live a life where you don't even think about money at all. So you go into a restaurant and you don't ask yourself how much is that? You just don't, you say, "I want this, this and that," and the person says, "Are you sure?" "Yes I'm definitely sure that's exactly what I want."[01:11:26.14]

3.4.5. An example of food shopping

We go into shopping centres now, and you would have noticed this as a common thing happening lately in a shopping centre where you go to buy food, and some food is fairly expensive. Do you remember when bananas were expensive? You know in Australia here I think they were twelve dollars or thirteen dollars a kilogram, somewhere around that figure, and I still went in and bought my twenty five bananas that I buy every week, or twenty bananas or whatever it is that we buy every week. Twenty bananas at thirteen dollars a kilogram works out to be thirty or forty dollars, and they look at you and go, "Do you realise that's forty dollars for your bananas?" "Yes I do." (Laughter) They look at you like you must be crazy or something and you say, "And I still want to eat my bananas it doesn't worry me how much they cost, I still want to eat my bananas. I love my bananas."[01:12:22.13]

If you love things, that's what you do. Of course when they're one dollar a kilogram I don't buy thirty because we only need twenty. I don't buy thirty because they're one dollar a kilogram, I still buy twenty and they look at you then, "Do you love bananas?" "Yes, that's right (Laughter) but I can only eat twenty in a week, so I can only eat twenty." "Why aren't you buying thirty? They are a dollar a kilogram now, you can buy five bucks worth and you know you can have thirty." "I don't need thirty, I only need twenty. I can't eat thirty, so why would I buy thirty?" So it's immaterial to me how much it costs. It's something that I love, it's an essential item I feel in my diet and so I buy it. Wouldn't you do the same, if you did not care about money? You'd to the same wouldn't you? [01:13:21.24]

If you had a million dollars in the bank, now probably you'd care about money less, is that not true? So it's interesting, I find, we often think that we can enter a state of not caring about something when we've got more than enough. That's what we think. It's not so. The reality is I've seen millionaires still penny pinching because they have not yet emotionally even absorbed the fact that they are a millionaire now. I know millionaires who come along to our sessions who are still penny pinching. In their day to day life they won't buy certain things, they won't stay in certain places; they won't do certain things because they're still worried about money. They either feel guilt about having it now, and therefore they don't spend exactly what they want. [01:14:17.00]

I'm not saying that you then overuse the world's resources either because you will not. If you would just focus on what you need, you wouldn't then go out and buy ten things because it's cheap, you'd still buy one thing if that's all that you needed. Can you see that? You'd still do the same thing; your behaviour would not change. Why does our behaviour change? Because we are afraid of missing out, which is just another fear, that's why our behaviour changes. [01:14:44.03]

So when we've got the dollar bananas and we're afraid of missing out, you can only eat a certain number of bananas, but when we've got the dollar bananas we're afraid of missing out, and now that they are cheap we can afford to buy more, so we buy more. Because we have all of these emotions associated with greed. When you can afford to do something, greed is all about, "I want to get as much as I possibly can right now because if I don't get it right now, I'm too afraid that it might not be available tomorrow." [01:15:16.02]

A person who lives in a state of ethical behaviour does not do that. A person living in a state of ethical behaviour will buy the same amount of bananas that he needs every week, no matter what their price is. Because he will have some ethics about his personal love of self, they'll have ethics about other people, the environment, all these ethics will come into play and every single one of these ethics will affect the behaviour. [01:15:45.02]

And it's such an important issue. Love in action is very, very interesting. It's often very different to what people think it is and then when we focus on loving ourselves and loving other people. Remember I gave some talks a couple of years ago about the laws of God involved in loving others, and the laws of God involved in loving yourself. The reality is we can challenge our emotional understanding of love quite rapidly in our life, but many of us are too afraid to do so. [01:16:21.24]

4. The love and fear internal scale

So the reality is also that we are willing to talk about love until the cows come home as the saying goes. We're willing to talk about love and talk about love and talk about love some more, and talk about love some more without even engaging one aspect of love in our day to day life. Do you know why we're willing to do that? Because on one hand our soul is screaming out to us going, "You love, love, you want to live in love!" That's what your soul's saying. And on the other hand your soul's also screaming out to you going, "But you're terrified," I'm terrified, I'm terrified of love. I'm terrified of how love is going to look, how love is going to affect my entire life, how it's going to be in action. [01:17:02.19]

Our souls have an internal pendulum swinging between love and fear

So what I do is I've got these scales inside of myself, this internal scale system. On one side I've got love, and then on the other side I've got fear, and what we finish up doing in our life is we finish up going, "Okay, I do want to love but I don't want to love so much as my fear might get triggered. I want to love but I don't want to love that much that all of my fears are going to have to be given up." That's our problem as a society. It's also our problem individually. [01:17:43.06]

You look at how much individually we're having trouble with actually putting into action the principles of Divine Truth. Why are we having that trouble? The main reason why we're having the trouble is because fear is still the dominant emotion in our life. It's not so much that we have fear; having fear is not the problem. Can you see that? The problem is that we live in the fear. The problem is that we honour it; the problem is that we value it. That's the problem we have. Honouring these emotions and the value of living in fear causes us to act highly unethically. We have no ethics as a result of our fear. [01:18:38.23]

Because if you think about it. If we had some ethics and no fear, it would be so simple to be ethical. Wouldn't it? You'd be able to just do it every day automatically. We wouldn't even worry. We wouldn't be worried about, "But what about the money?" or, "What about this?" or, "What about that?" or, "What about how this looks?" Or any of these other things, because we would be so focussed on the fact that there's no fear. So we'd only be focussed on the love part of the equation, that's all we'd be focussed on. So, life is a lot simpler like that, as you can imagine. [01:19:13.13]

You see at the moment inside of us, I see this happening quite a lot inside of each person, inside of us we have this measuring system just like the scales here. We have this measuring system that's going on constantly. We measure every possible action in our life as to whether it's going to create more fear in our life or not. That's the measuring system we use. And if we believe it's going to create a more difficult life... and we only have to believe it, it doesn't even have to be true. If we believe it, we now then take those actions and we do whatever the fear dictates. It doesn't even have to be true, we do it. That's our problem. And because we do that and we've got his internal scale going, fear/no fear, fear/no fear, fear/no fear, then of course we respond in addictions, which is also unethical. We respond in addictions because we are so driven by our fear. [01:20:21.26]

4.1. Honouring fear creates all unethical behaviour

So if you had to ask the question what causes unethical behaviour? It's not your fear that causes unethical behaviour; it's your valuing fear that causes unethical behaviour. It's honouring fear that causes your unethical behaviour; it's not the fear itself. So many people I see using fear as an excuse, it's not fear that's the problem; it's your unwillingness to see that fear has no value that is the problem. It's your unwillingness to see that you're honouring fear, that's the problem. That's what causes all of your unethical behaviour. [01:21:10.03]

Every single time you honour fear, you are placing fear as your God, and the world is doing this. You know a lot of people say, "The God of the world is money," or, "The God of the world is whatever." No, the God of the world currently is fear, that's the God of the world because that's the thing that every single person on the planet generally responds to first. That's the thing, fear. They value it, they honour it and because they value it and honour it, they live in it. And the result of this fear is that it is the cause of all unethical behaviour on the planet. All unethical behaviour on the planet is caused by fear. [01:22:01.25]

4.1.1. Applying the Golden rule to violence

So can you see that it's so important for us to stop honouring our fear, and start honouring love? This is what the statement treating others as you would have them treat you does. What this golden rule that I gave to people in the first century does is it honours love over fear, because it says in treating others how I would like them to treat me, not how they treat me but how I'd like them to treat me, I am now honouring love over any fear based situation that can occur. So what if they want to kill me, how will I act towards them? Well I don't want to kill them and I don't want to be killed so I would act in harmony with that. That's how I would act. [01:22:54.13]

What if they wanted to destroy my life, how would I act towards them? Well I don't want my life destroyed so how can I consider destroying their life in return? I can't. What if they wanted to torture me, how would I act? Well I don't to be tortured so how could I even consider torturing them? What if they wanted to shoot me, how would I act? Well I don't want to be shot so I certainly can't consider shooting them in return. What if they want to rape my wife, how would I act? Well I don't want my wife to be raped so I would not ever consider raping their wife or child in return. Can you see it's like every single violent action that can be taken against me, if I do this, if I understand this principle, I could never take the action in return? [01:23:57.23]

4.1.2. Applying the Golden rule to religion

What if I'm in a religion and they want to excommunicate me from the religion? Well I don't want to be excommunicated, so why would I ever excommunicate another person? I don't want to be damned for the rest of my life so why would I damn another person for the rest of theirs? I don't want to be criticized and judged constantly by other people so why would I want to criticize or judge anybody myself? Can you see that you can go from the most extreme action a person can consider, to the least extreme action that we consider? And if I'm applying this principle, I'm going to be pretty much loving in every situation because I'm going by what I would like to be done to myself. [01:24:53.13]

And to do that I'm going to have to confront all of these fears that I have about doing that. So I'm going to have to have some courage. Courage is a very important quality to develop. And if I address these fears and I stop honouring and valuing my fear over all other things, I stop making fear my God. So that's no longer my God, and even if I don't believe in God, if I make love my God I'm going to be better off. Can you see? I don't even have to believe in God. I can make love my God instead, and I am capable of changing my life. Then if you start actually accepting God and going through the process of all of those things and receiving Divine Love, its easier then to love, and therefore I become more like God and more like love anyway. But I don't even have to do that if I really want to change, all I've got to do is stop honouring my fear as God. [01:26:10.06]

If we honour love over fear, then love becomes our God

Participant: I live a very fear driven life and I'm not sure how I start addressing that.

Well, what's one thing you're afraid of? [01:26:31.26]

Participant: I clearly have money issues because I'm broke.

So you're afraid of something.

Participant: I'm afraid of being successful and having a lot of money. I'm very afraid of relationships.

Yeah I was going to say the money fears are very low on your list really.

Participant: Yeah, okay, let's cut to the chase. I'm really afraid of relationships and I've just discovered recently that I'm extremely angry with men, which was a bit of a surprise. [01:27:10.01]

So even a friendship with a man is going to be quite difficult if you're extremely angry with men isn't it? Alright, so let's say you pick an area of your life like you've done where what you're really afraid of; you notice initially when we do that we often pick areas that we're not as afraid of and list all of them first. [01:27:28.27]

Participant: (Laughter) Yeah, we're just warming up to it.

5. Dealing with primary vs. secondary fears

And we're just warming up, because there is often a whole list of things that we are afraid of but when I start addressing the real fears that I have, which I would call my primary fears, my secondary fears are involved. So for example, let's say security is a primary fear and a secondary fear is money. And safety is a primary fear and the secondary fear is again money, you can see that these two issues are going to at some point intertwine with each other. They're going to at some point relate to each other. [01:28:31.24]

So my suggestion with any person who wants to confront anything in their life is this. The best things to deal with first are not the secondary things because they will have a lesser affect on your life once you've dealt with them, than the primary things. These things are having the biggest affect on your life, so doesn't it make sense logically to deal with the biggest things in your life first? [01:29:02.28]

So what I would do is I'd go, "Okay, what are my biggest issues?" So relationship is one of your biggest issues. So that's one of the issues you want to focus on first. So forget about the money issue for a while. When I say forget about it, go out and get a job and work to get enough (of your stuff), don't deal with that issue just yet. Whatever needs to be done with your money, do it, even if it's not in a job that you don't like at this point, go and do that because this is a gradual process of change. So do that because the money issue is not as big an issue for you as the issue of relationships.

Participant: I've pretty much hidden for thirty odd years in my house, not going out. [01:29:47.24]

5.1. Dealing with relationship fears ethically

So, all of your spare time needs to go in this relationship issue. Remember this is a part of the experimentation process that we discussed yesterday, in the "Logic, Truth and Emotion" presentation? So what experiments would I create to address this relationship issue in an ethical way? So in other words if I decide, "Ah well I'm just going to go out find a man have sex with him and then I'll start working through relationship issues." Would you like a man to decide that with you? [01:30:32.16]

No. Obviously not! It's not very kind. You're just getting used by somebody, which isn't very kind. So why would you then ethically do that with him? So you can't create an experiment that's unethical and therefore unloving. But what you could do is you could start finding places where men are, and decide to actually enter into friendships with these men and see how that process goes for you, couldn't you? That would be more ethical wouldn't it? To actually desire to get to know them, desire to know what's going on for them? Desire to understand them. These are things you want from men, aren't they? Don't you desire a man to understand you and get to know you? These are things you want from the man so why not give that to a man in a friendship environment initially? You explain that to him right at the beginning if you wanted to. You could say, "Look my problem is that I'm pretty angry with men so I'm not sure that you're going to want to agree with this, but I'd like to get to know you. I'm not wanting to have a physical relationship, in terms of a sexual relationship, I just need to have a few men friends in my life so that I can begin to interact with men and begin to understand men better." The things you want men to do for you. "I can begin to understand men better, I can begin to understand what's going on, how men feel and think and so forth, and I'd like to honestly engage this friendship with you. I don't want to engage in a relationship because I'm not certain that I want to be with you, so I know that I can't engage a relationship with you, but I can engage a friendship with you. Now would you be willing to enter into this kind of arrangement with me so that I can learn some things? And who knows you might learn some things too or you just might learn that I'm a bitch, but either way (Laughter) we'll learn something in the process." [01:33:02.24]

If you approached it in that way you could be very honest, very open and very ethical. What I would then choose to do is go to a place, this would be my experiment, go to a place where people are doing things that I love to do. So if I loved music, I would go to a place and look around at the guys that are there that play some music and I'd just approach them and say, "Look, you know, this is the issue I have." And sooner or later one of them will respond in some way even if they tell you to get lost, they'll respond in some way. A lot of times you can even just sit there in an environment and be approached by somebody else and you say, "This is what I'm here for." You don't even have to go up to them a lot of the times you can just sit there and wait for them to come to you. [01:33:50.15]

But engage the process ethically. In other words don't enter a relationship with them unless you desperately want to love them, and you want to demonstrate that love. Don't enter into a sexual relationship with them unless you desperately want to give them sex, and you desperately want to receive that from them, and you would desperately like to love them. When I say desperately it's probably not the right term, but you want to love them and they want to love you, and don't do anything unless it's ethical but choose to do it; choose to address the fear. [01:34:25.20]

5.1.1. Dealing with primary fears can transform them into desires

Now when you begin addressing a fear that's a primary fear, remarkable things happen in your life because all the emotions that you have related to the reason why you've been afraid of this particular thing in your life start to come up. All of the beliefs that you have that are unloving and unwarranted in many cases start coming up, and all of the childhood history that you have that created these beliefs and emotions all start to appear, and now you're in a process of engaging your biggest fears. And the beauty of engaging your biggest fears is if you release them that no longer becomes a fear. In fact you'll find that most of your fears become desires. So instead of fearing a relationship, you'll work through your fear enough to get to the point where you desire a relationship. And that's a good sign that you've actually dealt with a lot of your fears once you start to actually, from your heart, desire something. [01:35:58.05]

Now some primary fears won't turn into desires at all, they'll be transformed into something else. But you'll be amazed at how many times some of the primary fears that you have are actually in the end going to turn out to be some primary desires. And in fact this is something that goes on inside of your soul quite frequently. Sometimes the things that we have the largest amount of fear associated with, are also the things that we have the largest amount of desire, and the largest amount of fear about our desire not being met. And so this is why it's very good to engage the process. [01:36:37.04]

Now once we engage that process, can you see if you just changed your fears associated with the relationship, you will have helped yourself in your relationship with God, you will have helped yourself in your relationship with your soulmate and you will have helped yourself in your relationship with others, which would include your family, your children if you have any, and your friends. And on top of that you will have helped yourself in your relationship with anybody who comes to you in your environment, as a subsequent result of focussing the energy and attention on that one thing.

What I see a lot of people doing as they know they have emotional issues inside of themselves relating to a specific subject, but they are in so much fear about that particular subject that they do not actively address the fear associated with the subject. As a result of that they remove the potential for growth from their life in that particular area that potential is removed. [01:37:53.20]

Participant: I realise that, after looking at some of your DVDs, I thought, "Oh, whoops I've just hidden myself away very safely so that I don't ever have to feel that fear." [01:38:08.11]

Yes and the problem is that we need to stop doing that. We just need to stop hiding ourselves from things. And by the way this is a very ethical thing to do. The reason that it's such an ethical thing to do is because the problem with having these primary fears in particular, is that we just expect our environment to conform to our fear. So in other words, we're asking everybody else to honour our fear as much as we honour our fear. Now is that ethical? Would you like everybody else around you to make you honour their fear as much as they do? Of course you wouldn't, but unfortunately, as a society, we generally do that with everyone around us. We're asking other people to honour our fear, to value our fear. You'll be surprised how many times, even in a presentation that I give; I get questions asked all related to fear. They want me to honour their fear as much as they do, and when I give an answer that challenges fear, you'll notice their rage or anger because they do not want me to have a lower value of their fear than what they have. [01:39:38.03]

So what many people want from me is they want me to pander to their fear. So they don't want the truth, they want me to pander to their fear. Now to be frank with you, if I pander to everyone's fear, I'd be a very famous person. I'd be a sort of like a Tony Robbins type of character who panders a lot to other people's fear. I'm not a person like that who panders to other people's fears because it's not ethical for me to do so. I don't want you to pander to my fear. I would like you to challenge my fear. So it's not right for me then to pander to yours. I want to challenge your fear. [01:40:18.17]

And I suggest that if you do that, choose the biggest things you fear in your life and work on those first, because if you choose the biggest things you fear in your life and work on those first, you'll have the greatest change in your life in the shortest amount of time. That's a very economical way of using your time. It's not economical to use your time in another direction in fact. It's not economical for you to change a little tiny fear while you leave these big fears unchallenged. It's far more economical in terms of the use of your own time, and the use of your own resources, and the use of the resources of the world in fact; it will be far better used if you challenge your biggest fears first. So it is actually an ethical action you can take by challenging your fears first, the biggest fears you have first. [01:41:21.17]

5.2. God's perspective on us honouring fears

Participant: How does God see fear and when I'm honouring my fear, what happens to God's Laws? [01:41:30.27]

As I've pointed out, when I honour my fear I now have fear as my God. So if we look at who our God is, if fear is our God, how do you think God feels about fear? So what God sees is fear has become a competitor for God's emotions with his children. Fear has become the dominant factor in people's lives. Now God doesn't judge that, but God understands that fear is a result of the false expectations that appear real to society. In fact God understands that the whole fear grew because of the walking away from God. If we hadn't walked away from God in the first place, then fear could never have grown to the extent it has now. Because we'd have some level of trust, we'd have a mummy and daddy, God, who provides for us, looks after us, accepts us and loves us and all of those kinds of things. [01:42:43.03]

So the beauty of it is that fear is the false expectations appearing real are not valued by God at all. So God doesn't value your fear. In fact all of God's Laws challenge your fear. God doesn't value your fear at all. God doesn't say, "Ah, Joy you've got such a terrible amount of fear in there that I'm going to honour your fear for a minute." God's going, "No, I'm not going to honour a single fear inside of Joy for one minute." And don't you feel that when you start recognising a lot of God's Laws in everything? [01:43:22.11]

Can you see the Law of Attraction honouring your fear? No. It exposes your fear every single time. It's like bang there's my fear again, bang there's my fear again. You're afraid of having an accident, you finish up having one. You're afraid of having a broken relationship, you finish up having one. The Law of Attraction just exposes your fears constantly. That's how God feels about your fear. He wants your fear to be gone completely. God also knows that there is no fear in true love. So if you really loved, even yourself, you would not be afraid. If you really loved God, you would not be afraid. If you really loved your soulmate, the other half of yourself, you would not be afraid. Fear is created because a lack of love exists. [01:44:29.01]

So of course God just wants to help you wipe out your fear so there is no longer fear. Instead what is just left then is true love; that's what God wants. God wants us to no longer honour our fear as God, and honour God as God. Honour your Creator as God, honour your Creator as the person who's the source of your existence and the source of your life, and therefore there's nothing to fear. That's what God wants us to do. But that all being said, God doesn't criticize you for your fear. God just knows that your fear is a figment of your own experience and once you release it you won't need to fear anything again. That's what God knows. [01:45:29.04]

6. Dealing with fear and anger towards men

Participant: I'm really angry at men and I'm really scared of men.

Angry at men and scared of men, yes! So it's similar emotions to...

Participant: Yeah, but through my teens and twenties I had a lot of friendships with men, and in fact my best friends were men. I don't understand the Law of Attraction of that. [01:45:56.00]

Did you have relationships during that time?

Participant: Well when I met my husband I did, but I feel like I've had a twenty six year unethical marriage... you know from both of us. [01:46:11.14]

Yep and that's often the case, when we're in a bartering system.

Participant: Yep, and I've been working to address those things and being more honest with him. I've been telling him I don't think he's my soulmate, asking him to think about whether I the right person for him, and opening up a dialogue about it. [01:46:34.19]

6.1. Ethical ways to discover whether we're in a relationship with our soulmate

Can I point out to you though that on this issue that you don't think he's your soulmate, how would you know? [01:46:41.14]

Participant: Well that's the thing, I don't know, I don't know.

Exactly, so why say it?

Participant: Well I said that to him because I thought well I've got to start being honest here. So I said, "Look I don't know... this hasn't been working the way we've been doing it. It's not working; I've been unloving to you..." [01:46:58.11]

No remember you said, I think you're not my soulmate? I just want to address this issue because it's an issue that's happening very regularly. [01:47:18.20]

Participant: Well we've decided to stay together to try to work out whether we are or not. [01:47:22.03]

Yeah I understand, but even the statement is fraught with ethical problems. For a start you're using your thoughts to determine something. As we've discussed yesterday, thoughts and feelings need to be involved in terms of emotions and truth. Secondly, there is a need to experiment as to whether you're soulmates or not, is there not? You're in a relationship already and before you leave this relationship you need to experiment first, rather than just thinking that he's not and stating that you need to first experiment. Thirdly, you've said you're angry with men and that you're fearful of men. Well obviously that's going to be a major thing playing out in your relationship, so this is another part of the information that needs to be confronted. It would be better, wouldn't it, to say something like, "I would like to experiment with whether we're soulmates or not." [01:48:22.08]

Participant: That's basically the discussion we're having but I'm wondering if I'm...

When you say this to a person you sounds like you've already made a choice, you've already made a decision and the decision is not based on any factual or logical evidence, it's only based on a thought. And so therefore presenting just thoughts like that is of course going to have its own results, particularly when you know that you're blocked to men and have been blocked to men for such a long time that you feel anger with men, and you feel in rage with men. [01:48:57.00]

Participant: I was worried I was being unethical still being with him.

Well I agree but you've been unethical for twenty six years being with him and now's not the time to all of a sudden start getting all high and mighty about it, but firstly understanding so let's go back to what I would do in the situation. I'd go, "Okay how to I feel about men generally? My feelings about men are..." You can list some for me Elvira. Just be honest about how you're feeling. [01:49:27.03]

Participant: They're controlling.

They're controlling, okay. And you're not controlling are you? [01:49:34.13]

Participant: Oh, I'm controlling.

Okay. (Laughter) Keep going.

Participant: I think they scare me.

So you're afraid. Do you know why you're afraid? Let's just say they scare me, so there's fear but the questions has to be asked why? Why do they frighten you so much? [01:50:01.25]

Participant: I'm not sure at this moment.

You told me the reason yesterday. What happened when you were little?

Participant: You said I needed to experiment whether that was true or not, I haven't done that yet. [01:50:22.26]

No, but you feel that it possibly is. You feel there's been some form of abuse from a male towards yourself, yes? So of course you're going to fear a group of people who perpetrated abuse towards you. So that's a primary reason for your fear. It's interesting when I ask you why you're afraid, you say, "I don't really know," and yet you've actually already stated the primary reason why you're afraid. What other reasons are you afraid? So you're afraid of men because they can potentially abuse you, so let's write that down. They're stronger than you and therefore can overpower you and hurt you. Is that a primary reason? Any other reasons? [01:51:18.08]

Participant: They're the main ones. I generally like men beyond those things.

Why do you like men? Tell me why you like men. So you have a love/hate relationship with them? [01:51:28.27]

Participant: (Laughter) Yeah.

Let's look at why you like men.

Participant: They're more direct than women.

So you like their honesty and directness?

Participant: They tend to be interested in more things that I'm interested in then most women.

Okay, so they have a wider scope of interest that matches yours. These are of course not my opinions; they're yours I'm writing down. I don't agree with all of them, but I'm happy to write them down because they're yours. [01:52:00.05]

Participant: Well the ones I've come across anyway.

No that's fine because they are going to be the ones you attract of course. Can I see that if these were the only emotions you had towards men, you would never be angry with them? So these emotions of why you like men are not creating your anger. These emotions are like, "I think they are honest and direct; that's really good. I like their scope of interest; that's really good. These are things I like about these fellows, so they're nice to me." And you'd never be upset and angry, worried about what you like.

6.2. Dealing with emotions surrounding abuse

The only areas that are going to cause you to get angry and fear based are the fear based areas. So can you see if, in your situation, I'd be primarily looking at my potential abuse. That would be my highest priority if I'm focussing on sorting out my relationship. [01:53:10.07]

Participant: Well I've experimented with that one a lot and... [01:53:15.03]

Oh, I don't know if I can agree with you there, Elvira. [01:53:17.27]

Participant: Oh God it feels like...

You have not felt the emotions associated with it. You have intellectually come across these things in the past but you've not yet fully felt the emotions, because if you fully feel the emotion, the fear would disappear and therefore the anger with men would disappear. So you are afraid still, which tells me that the emotions are not addressed. So what I find happens with a lot is that the issues with regard to any form of abuse whether its physical, emotional or sexual in nature, any form of abuse, has this general response. [01:54:03.13]

Here's the situation of the abuse and what it's caused; let's call that the wall. Here's the person who's been abused, often it's a woman. She intellectually makes steps and emotionally makes some steps until she gets to the wall. Then once you hit the wall, as the saying goes, everything hits the fan. That's when the real emotions start being triggered, emotions about sex and love and an open heart, and really in the end this wall is what creates the lack of an open heart. You're going to have to open your heart to get through this wall, and that's what you're absolutely terrified of doing, yes? So this is the issue that we face.

An abuse victim makes steps towards the wall of fear, but needs to open her heart to overcome the wall

Participant: I don't even know what that means.

I know, but you've got to be careful here because you're so afraid that you don't say, "I don't even know what that means so I'm going to give up before I begin." You can discover what that means through a process, but you need to engage the process. You've got to be careful that we do not use as an excuse our fear. It's a wall of fear that every time in the past we come up to, we bounce off of, and I've seen this happen over and over and over and over again. You imagine in two thousand years of life helping people to confront their fears, you're going to see this happen very, very frequently.

Participant: I've gone into this so many times, what am I missing? Like I've been shaking and feeling shame and what I am not doing? I'm obviously not doing something. [01:56:09.26]

You don't want to open your heart.

Participant: To men.

Yeah, you don't want to open your heart.

Participant: Because I'm afraid of them.

Well you don't want open your heart; you don't want to trust one of them.

Participant: Because I think I did trust this man.

Exactly that's the reason why, that's what you have to go through; the feeling of all of this. Once you release the feeling that you trusted somebody and they hurt you, it doesn't matter whether it's physically, emotionally or sexually or any other way, you trusted them and they hurt you. Once you go through that emotionally, you'll actually release that from you and now you'll be able to go, "I can't trust that man, but I can trust that man." You'll be able to feel that you can, and you will. You'll feel the man you can't trust because you can feel in him the emotions that this other man had in your life, and so you'll be able to know I can trust my own assessment of this situation. [01:57:12.23]

At the moment, you can't trust your assessment of the situation of any man, because at the moment this underlying emotion guides all of your interactions with every man including, of course, whoever is your partner. So fear is stopping you from opening your heart. Now on the other hand you want your man to open his heart to you don't you? [01:57:36.16]

Participant: Well he's in the same position as me, he doesn't trust women either.

Of course, that's the kind of man that we want so that way we're both happy in living a life where basically we're happy living this life. There's you, there's him, here's the wall and that's our relationship. We get some of our addictions met through this wall but neither of us have to open our heart, neither of us have to actually confront any major issues, neither of us have to be emotionally expressive, and neither of us have to love with all of our being. [01:58:16.11]

A relationship where both parties are injured can sustain co-dependent addictions through a wall of fear

Participant: I mean I've been happy with it the way it is there, where he's not opening up and I'm not opening up and we're pretending to have a marriage, but now I don't want that any more. [01:58:25.00]

Of course, so you can't then say, "I'm leaving you because you don't want what I want," when you wanted him like that beforehand. He's now got to also go through this process of getting used to the fact that you want something different, does that make sense? Because you're saying you want that wall down but to get that wall down, this wall that is only inside of you has to come down. Now if you had released this wall and then said to him, "I don't know if we can still stay in a relationship," I would understand more. But if you have not released this wall and you say to him, "I don't want to stay in a relationship with you," I have to question what your motivation is, because you're still not releasing the thing that causes blockage on your side. [01:59:16.25]

Now I understand that he also has a wall. I don't know if it's as large as yours so I'll draw it a bit smaller, as I feel it's not as large as yours. He has not only a relationship wall; he's got some wall to emotion. So to open his heart he's going to have to be able to feel some grief. You're able to feel some grief at the moment, so you don't have that additional wall to work your way through. He does. [02:00:05.26]

The man in the relationship has a wall towards the relationship (left) as well as a wall towards feeling his emotions (right)

So if I come up to the wall and I bounce off of it, would it be ethically right for me to then expect him to come up to his walls and go through them? When I go up to my wall and I bounce off of it? It would not be ethically right for me to expect that I can go up to my wall and bounce off it any time I want, but he has to go up to his walls and work through them. What would be more ethical for a start for me, would be for me to go up to my wall and actually deconstruct it brick by brick if I need to, and then once I've deconstructed it, I now can say to him, "I'm willing to give you my heart now, but this is the wall you've got." Now I can actually have some ethical desire for him to do the same. [02:01:21.06]

Participant: So the way I face my fear is by opening my heart?

Yes. You're afraid of going into a relationship. The way you address the fear is by opening your heart. Yes, you're going to need to open your heart through processes. It's not going to be something you're going to be able to do overnight. It's not going to be like open sesame! It's going to be a process that you're going to need to engage in, and it's going to be confronting because it's been there for a long time. [02:01:54.21]

Participant: Well the way I've been doing it is by just becoming more honest about how I feel. Is that enough?

No it's not enough because there's got to be a willingness to feel your terror, which I discussed with you yesterday, because the wall is a wall of terror. Honesty is essential because honesty says: "This wall exists." That's honesty. So honesty is saying, "Yes I have this wall." That's a very good step because without being honest, you're never going to do anything about the wall. But the next step is to destroy the wall. The wall is a wall of fear, and to destroy anything emotionally we need to feel it to release it. So we're going to need to feel the terror. [02:02:56.08]

To deconstruct a wall of terror, we need to acknowledge it and experience it

Participant: Have I done pieces of it?

Of course you've done pieces of it. You know you have.

Participant: So I just need to keep doing that?

You would not have even been able to get into grief when I was just talking to you earlier about the subject. Instead you would have gone into rage, because you remember in previous discussions you have gotten into rage. So the fact is now I can speak with you about a subject that before caused rage. The fact that now it doesn't cause rage is an indication you have dealt with some things about the wall. So this is very good; that's progress. That's forward progress. However, what you really want in your life is for the wall to be gone. That would be beautiful would it not? So imagine living a life without any fear of a relationship, without any fear of your heart being hurt, it would just be fantastic. It would be a beautiful thing to experience. [02:03:50.22]

So then the wall doesn't exist, I don't have to feel it anymore because it's not there anymore. Now I've opened my heart, and now this other person who may or may not be my soulmate is faced with some decisions ethically inside of themselves, and we can point that out to them. So that's what I've had to do, and Mary's going through exactly this. So Mary's heart is still blocked towards me. She's got grief to feel that she hasn't felt yet, she's got the wall of fear that she's got about relationships which she's going through, that's why she's walked in and out of our discussion today as she can feel those feelings in her, and she's gone away to feel them. [02:04:38.03]

And she knows I've opened my heart and that becomes more attractive to somebody when you do that. Now I'm not going to say to Mary, "I've opened my heart, now you have to open yours." But I can say to Mary, "I've opened my heart, if you don't open yours, then we still don't have a relationship." I can say that because we don't. We don't until both of us have an open heart. So that's what I would advise.
Ethics and Morality: Part 2

Now let's proceed with the second half of this discussion, which is the issue of morality. [00:00:41.01]

7. Morality is to treat yourself and others how God wants all of His children to be treated

So what I would like to do is define morality quite loosely for you, which is this: treat others and yourself how God wants all His children to be treated.

So with what we discussed earlier with ethics, treating other people how I would like to be treated myself, this would confront a lot of areas of our life, and would help us to become far more ethical and loving in our behaviour towards each other. Morality is an extension of that. We're now extending that into how does God want all of Her children to be treated? That's how I need to treat everyone else and myself; how God wants all of Her children to be treated. So you are out of harmony with morality if you even treat yourself how God doesn't want you to be treated. While you may be in harmony with ethics, you are out of harmony with morality. [00:02:53.10]

Now this issue is a very, very big issue because firstly we need to have some feelings about how God wants all of Her children to be treated. Of course many religions have done that emotionally and intellectually and they finish up treating people very badly. In fact wars have been created about how religions believe God wants them to treat another religion. Complete wars have been created about that. [00:03:28.28]

7.1. Ethics and morality need to be implemented together to create loving behaviour

But of course these two points are not mutually exclusive. Do you know what I mean by mutually exclusive? We're not saying you can be ethical without being moral, or you can be moral without being ethical.

7.1.1. Religions implementing morality alone have been unloving

So if I had this viewpoint inside of myself that God wanted me to punish other people for not being of the same religious faith that I am. Let's say I had that viewpoint and I believed that to be true, asking myself the first ethical question; would I like to be treated like that myself, this would confront that viewpoint because I wouldn't want to be punished myself for having a different religion to another person. So how can I then justify treating another person badly because of having a different religious faith than myself? So we need to add both of these two statements together to create what would be loving actions towards other people. [00:04:30.22]

Unfortunately, most religions only do this. The reason why I raised this first issue with religions in the first century is because most religions implement the morality part of it, and they make a lot of suppositions about what God wants, without any consideration to the first ethical issue. In other words what they do is they say, "God wants me to expel homosexuals from my congregation. That's what it says in the Bible so that's what we're doing." But if they ask themselves would they like to be expelled as a heterosexual from the congregation, they'd probably say, "No I wouldn't like to be expelled for doing anything you're not doing from a congregation." So how can they then justify the second statement as to what God wants? [00:05:43.05]

And the reality is, one of the things God wants is for us to do the first thing. So that's what we also need to bear in mind. God wants us to only consider treating other people how we would like to be treated. That's one of the things God also wants because obviously once we ask ourselves that first question, we have the capacity to understand what kind of treatment most of us are able to accept, and what kind of treatment is unloving that we can't accept. [00:06:19.16]

But this morality issue is very important. The reason why I raise it as morality rather than ethics is because normally what happens on the planet is that people decide what's moral and what's not. What I'm suggesting is the only person who has the right to tell us what's right and what's wrong is God. I'm not saying He's going to do that in a book that people have written because that's open to interpretation, and misinformation and also falsification. The way it's going to have to work is He's going to have to do it by having some kind of communication with your heart. [00:07:07.26]

So issues of morality include issues such as, is lying right or wrong? Is stealing right or wrong? Is embezzlement right or wrong? From who's perspective? From God's perspective!

What about adultery? What about what the Bible calls fornication, which is really just two people who are unmarried having sex? What about homosexuality? And so forth. We can continue listing things to do with sex as well, masturbation and so forth; we can list all of these different things can't we? [00:08:29.20]

7.2. The creator determines the purpose of their creations through their intentions

In the end the person who created us is the person who determines whether any of those things are right or wrong. So if we examine the purpose for which we were created, that is a fast way of determining what's right or what's wrong.

7.2.1. The example of a weapons

So it's a bit like a person who creates a knife. Do you think the original intention of a person who creates a knife was that it's used in a murder? No, because a knife has other roles. For cutting up your food, for example; you need it for doing all sorts of things. So a knife has the potential to be used in an unloving manner to harm, physically hurt or even destroy a person's life, or a loving manner to cut up food and help you eat. So you can see that the intention of a person who created the thing is involved in what its underlying use is? [00:10:08.27]

Now if we examine that with regard to a knife, we could see that there is either a loving use of a knife or unloving use of a knife. A loving use of a knife is to help people in their life, while an unloving use of a knife would be to hinder people with their life. [00:10:32.12]

Now there have been people who created a knife just to injure people. A certain type of knife which is created just to harm people, so what's their intention? It's unloving intention because their intention is to harm. [00:10:49.17]

How about a gun? Can you think of any loving use?

Participant: Depends on your degree of loving but there are people that use guns for sports as a target. An actual sporting target, not to kill something.

Okay so they're using it for fun basically. So you could say that is a loving use of a gun or not? Well what's the difference between that and using a football? There's not much difference is there? No. Everyone has a bit more fear around guns. [00:11:53.22]

So potentially there might be loving uses of a gun, might there? There might be a potential loving use of a gun. For example, I gave a talk recently about the use of free will and in that talk I suggested to people that under certain circumstances firing a gun at another person, not to kill them but to prevent them from acting, might actually be a loving thing to do; if it's done with the right action and the right intention. And so there is a potential loving use of a gun. I'm not sure if there is a potential loving use of an atomic warhead or anything like that. You have mass destruction there, it's not selective. Anything that is selective has a potential loving use generally. And of course most of the time there is an unloving use of a weapon like a gun, turning it into a weapon rather than something else. So an unloving use of a gun would be to shoot animals. [00:13:12.13]

Okay so when we say unloving and loving, who defines that? Because I'm sure a person who goes out shooting every weekend feels that they are still being loving. So can you see it has to be outside of the definition of any human? And the definition has to be related to somebody else basically, and so can you see that the best person who defines how the knife is to be used is its maker? [00:13:54.01]

Mary: Is that also because inherent in the way they make the thing, in terms of its optimal use? So if someone's creating a samurai sword, the whole way they design the thing is to achieve in battle or death. Whereas, if I'm designing a knife that's for cutting up carrots, I'll design it completely differently won't I? [00:14:23.16]

Well the person who designs the samurai sword could have the intention that they want to artistically move their body and display some kind of martial arts, that's why it's called martial arts. Some kind of martial art that demonstrates control and you know they're not afraid of the weapon itself. It can actually demonstrate some quite amazing principles to watch. So the person who makes that one obviously has a different intention. [00:14:55.13]

Mary: Yep, so I guess what I'm asking about though is the design, the maker's intention, affects the design...

Certainly!

Mary: ...which affects the optimal functioning of that thing; which I'm applying to the human soul and God.

Of course!

8. Experiments that have been done by society to discover what is moral

8.1. Learning what is moral with the human soul and human body

So let's now apply this properly to the human soul and the human body. So we apply this same principle, the maker of our human soul is God. He's also the maker of the human body and the spirit body as well. All of the potential genetic designs that come from the amalgamation of two halves of the genetic process all came from this maker; who we are calling God.

Surely then God knows the optimal use of the soul, and the optimal use of the bodies attached to the soul? That's makes sense, doesn't it? And so it makes sense then that if we could find out the optimal use based on how God wants us to use our body and our soul, then we can bring our life into complete harmony with God's morality, or how God designed us to be. [00:16:26.25]

Now remember yesterday's discussion on "Logic, Truth and Emotions" we talked about the things that we are unsure of which we need to experiment with. The things that we're sure of will become clear through the process of experimentation. So what we need to do with regard to these issues is, we need to examine how society has experimented with the issues of morality and the general affects of these issues on society, and the pain that it has created in society. And so we can measure the results of the experiments that society has created. And therefore we can discover what the optimal usage of our body, and our spirit body, and our soul is by examining the results of its use over thousands of years of time. [00:17:24.18]

8.1.1. The negative effects of sex on our physical bodies

So let's look at our physical body. So we've got the male's physical body and the female's physical body. If the male or the female decide to have unprotected sex... and remember from the beginning God didn't design prophylactics or other form of contraception that we know of as a human race, at this point. That being the case, if we decided to all not use any protection at all with our body, which has been done in the past, and we decided to have lots and lots of sexual partners, what has been the result? Let's list the results. [00:18:13.27]

What kind of diseases? STD (sexually transmitted diseases). Yep. Unwanted children yes. What else? Abortions, yes, because of the unwanted pregnancy there's also been abortions, which is the taking of an unborn child's life. Entrapment; there's been an entrapment of say the woman wanting to marry somebody, they get pregnant, have a child and they say, "It's yours now," and the guy feels trapped. Broken relationships? I would argue that broken relationships are caused by other things, not just the act of sex. But when we use this sexual connection between a male and a female, or between a female and a female, or between a male and a male, we get a lot of results and many of these results, if it's done in an unprotected manner, for example; if there's no condoms or anything to protect you from these results, then these are the results that occur. [00:19:51.00]

Now, what I would do with that is I'd say; Okay, if these are the results that occur as a result of us acting in a certain behaviour with the sexual organs we've been given, and since all of things result in one main thing, and that is pain, it would make sense then that many of us, or most of us in some times past have perhaps used these sexual organs in a way that is not loving, and therefore not in harmony. The fact that it creates pain means that it's not loving, and the fact that it creates pain means it must not be in harmony with our original design. And if it's not in harmony with our original design, we can certainly say, through the process of experience, through the process of investigating the history of man, we can certainly say that certain actions can't be how God wants his children to be treated, because how we've treated each other has caused so much pain. [00:21:04.21]

So we can then start understanding that the relationship between the painful results and therefore certain things that must not be moral from God's perspective. Can you see that relationship? Well let's also look at it from the other end, let's look at the pleasurable results of having sex. [00:21:32.15]

8.1.2. The positive effects of having sex

You have some intimacy, that's possible isn't it? Orgasm, which is a pleasurable result yes. You get a wanted pregnancy, which is an awesome result; the creation of another child of God. There's got to be more reasons, otherwise you wouldn't want to do it so often! (Laughter) It's fun, okay. There's an expression of love in there, so that's possible. [00:22:19.27]

Participant: A growing relationship... knowing your own body

Does that result from having sex? Isn't it something you need to know before you have sex probably? (Laughter)

Participant: Knowing when you are ovulating, and not having to use contraception, just a woman knowing her own body.

Well if we took this to the furthest extension, the reality is that we could completely have a way of preventing a pregnancy if we wanted to prevent pregnancy, just by controlling our own bodies. But let's look at what the positive results have been historically that we can see from having sex. [00:23:21.14]

Participant: Growing in self awareness.

So growth in self awareness, I feel that happens. Sharing of self, let's put that in there, which is a very positive thing to do. It's giving the gift of yourself to another person and the gift of your body to another person to use in a loving manner, which is a very loving thing to do. Trust and everything grows as a result. There are even far more than that if you think about them. There's all these issues with regard to soulmates as well that you eventually open yourself up to experiencing. But let's just leave it like that; let's say we don't believe in soulmates, so we'll leave it like that. [00:24:21.16]

So these are all the positive results of having sex. So obviously from that we can see that God actually did design us to have sex. So it would not make sense to then go and be a holy person, where you are required not to have sex. Can you see that, because obviously there are all these positive benefits from having sex? [00:24:46.05]

8.1.3. Determining morality related to sex

So now we've got to amalgamate the positives and the negatives together. The question we need to ask ourselves is under what circumstances do the negatives occur, and under what circumstances do the positives occur? And we need to merge those two things together. Then we'll be able to have a good guess, although we may not know for certain because we're not yet connecting with God. So we may not know for certain, but from this experiment, this human experiment that seven billion people are involved in, we can make some pretty good assumptions about what the original intention about our creation has been. If we amalgamate those two things together, what I'm putting to you is we can say a certain amount of fairly safe things as to what God intended us to do with regard to our sexual relationships, if we don't even believe in soulmates at this point. [00:25:54.14]

The first thing is to have sex. God intended us to do that because we would not have been given sexual organs, and then asked not to use them. It's a crazy proposition to assume that would be the case. So firstly God designed us to have sex. But God designed us to have sex with one partner because the more partners we involve in sex, the more potential there is for hurt, and the more potential there is for unwanted pregnancies, and the more potential there is for disease. Now I could extend some of these things with the knowledge that we have gained from other experiments, but once you look at the human experiment, you can make some fairly basic assumptions about God's original design. Any other things you can think of? [00:26:57.13]

When love is present! When love isn't present when you have sex, it's not very good for at least one party. Very good, mutual agreement is necessary. Mutual... shall we call it mutual desire rather than just agreement, because obviously agreement and desire are very different to each other. So if one part is not very keen on having sex and you get together and decide to acquiesce in the act then, of course the other party to the sex says, "Wow, that wasn't very good sex." Because for sex to occur that's going to be really enjoyable two parties need to have a strong desire for each other, and when one party doesn't have much of a desire, and the other one has a strong desire, the person with the strong desire often feels the lack of desire in the other party. The person who has a lower desire feels a bit oppressed upon, and so you have all of these unhappy emotions as a result. So, obviously mutual desire is a very, very key part. [00:28:16.01]

Participant: To desire to have children that you're going to love. [00:28:27.19]Now if children result then they are loved. Very important isn't it? So this is before we factor in things like contraception and all these other things, through this human experiment that's has happened over thousands of years. We can make some of these basic assumptions about what appears to be the actual design of the designer who created our sexual organs. [00:29:12.03]

8.1.4. Using pain and pleasure as a feedback mechanism

Mary: I'm just wanting to ask a summary question now which is; if you're saying that if there's pain resulting from a certain set of actions, then we have to consider that our designer didn't design us to experience pain? [00:29:27.25]

Well no, our designer has designed us with the capability to experiencing pain as a feedback mechanism, but our designer didn't design us with the intention that we spend a whole life in pain. [00:29:37.15]

Mary: So our designer created pain as a feedback mechanism so... [00:29:42.03]

Telling us that something's is wrong. [00:29:43.18]

Mary: Telling us that something's wrong, but also He designed us for pleasure and love. [00:29:49.05]

Exactly, to tell us that something's right. [00:29:51.22]

Mary: So this equation that you're going through with us is about how to discern what's moral, what our designer wanted from us by examining the pain and the pleasure. [00:30:00.28]

Not just our own pain, but the universal pain through the human experiment. [00:30:04.27]

Mary: Exactly. Who else is suffering or... [00:30:07.01]

Who else is suffering and so forth? Yes. [00:30:13.14]

So let's say you're in a marriage and one party no longer feels to be in love with the other, are we now in or out of harmony with what appears to be God's design in terms of having sex? It doesn't matter whether they're married, or they have a certificate that says they're married or anything like that. They are now out of harmony with the original design. It would not be appropriate for them ethically or morally to continue to have sex with their partner while they're not in love with them. Now that changes the complexion of some relationships if we look at things in that way? [00:30:58.06]

All I'm doing at this point is actually presenting from the human experiment what we can gather. We don't even have to experiment with these ourselves, because this is the human experiment that's been going on for thousands of years. If you amalgamate all of those particular things from thousands of years and you get a very, very good idea of what was the underlying intention in the design.

8.1.5. The ethics and morality of choosing to have children

So this being the case, let's say one person in a couple who is having sex doesn't want to have children. Is it out of harmony?

Participant: I feel that God doesn't necessarily want us to have child after child, no. But if we've got free will. If one person wants to have a child and was open to getting pregnant but the other one definitely doesn't want to have a child, then I feel that those emotions may be needed to work through before... [00:32:48.11]

So there is now an ethical problem; is there not? Can you see the ethical problem? One party, maybe the wife, wants to have a child, the other party, maybe the husband, does not want to have a child and they're still engaging in sex with the potential of having a child. So now there is an ethical issue for both parties actually. There would be no ethical issue if both parties didn't want to have a child, because if both parties didn't want to have a child and they're having sex and they have some way of preventing the conception from occurring, then of course they're both in agreement, and there is no ethical issue. It's still by mutual desire, mutual agreement. All those husbands out there who are going, "Please don't get pregnant, please don't get pregnant," when they have sex with their wife who wants to get pregnant, need to have a look at their ethical relationship with their partner. And of course the wife needs to as well, if she knows that her husband feels that way. [00:34:03.03]

Participant: It would be the same opposite wouldn't it? [00:34:07.22]

Of course!

Participant: So would you look at the emotions of why you would want a child as well? [00:34:12.12]

Of course! If you want the child to love you, now you're way out of harmony with some pretty major ethical issues, and also you're way out of harmony with morality with God, because the whole reason why God created children was for God to love the children. Not for the children to love God. We have the will that we can exercise to not love God and so therefore our own children, when we create them, are able to exercise their will to not love us if they want to, and they are able to do that. If we expect them to love us, as many parents do, then we're already out of harmony with the gift of love, and therefore out of harmony with morality. [00:35:07.05]

Participant: With regards to God wanting us to be with one partner, you were talking before about a couple who had fallen out of love. Is that saying that moving onto another partner is okay? [00:35:27.27]

Yes.

Participant: So it's more or less having one partner at one time. Is it the same with the same sex? [00:35:40.23]

It doesn't matter whether it's the same sex or a different sex. The same applies as long as it is mutual issues. [00:35:46.15]

Participant: It's not moral to have multiple partners at the one time. [00:35:48.28]

Exactly!

8.1.6. Contraception can be a natural process if certain emotional errors are removed in both genders

Participant: You may not have touched on this yet, but you mentioned contraception. Can you talk about the aspect of using some form of contraception when you're having sex, because you're enjoying not using contraception when you want to have children? [00:36:14.05]

Well the reality is that God designed us to have an internal contraceptive system. The reason as to why women ovulate when they don't want to have a child has yet to be scientifically and medically examined. The reality is that it's all to do with emotions that they have from a very, very young age that they're not a woman yet until they have a child. And the reality is, if a woman does not ovulate, she can't get pregnant. So the reality is that we have the ability in our own bodies to control ovulation and also control menstruation for a woman, and therefore control pregnancy that way. A man also has the ability to prevent his sperm from ever entering his ejaculation in his own body. He doesn't of course, because most men have the emotion that they want some progeny, in the sense that they want to create some kind of longevity because they feel that they themselves are not enough, and they want some evidence of their prowess, if you like. So men have a whole group of emotions associated within themselves about not being able to prevent a pregnancy. When the two sets of emotions are properly utilised, there is no chance of a pregnancy actually occurring. So I'm saying under normal circumstances if the soul is not engaged, the body would not engage the process of conception. Now of course mankind hasn't ever experimented with that because they're not developed enough yet to even consider that as a concept, but that was the original intention of God's design. [00:37:58.21]

Participant: So there's nothing wrong with desiring to have lots of sex with your partner without the necessity to have children, or to prevent having children? [00:38:08.10]

Exactly! There's nothing wrong with that. However, we need to look at the emotional reasons why we need to use contraception rather than that happening naturally. There are emotional reasons for both parties, for both a woman and a man. [00:38:22.16]

Participant: So AJ when we start dealing with those emotions of not feeling like a woman... like for myself because I haven't had a child I feel like I'm not a real woman, and I've touched a little bit into that. So in the long run, in the next few years, perhaps then my periods will get lighter maybe they'll... [00:38:49.13]

They'll stop. Once you deal with that emotion, with a group of emotions, your periods will stop altogether. Your body won't even prepare itself for a pregnancy every month, because that's what you're body's doing. [00:39:00.24]

Participant: Wow, I see that as a shock in that if I don't get my periods, then there must be something wrong. So it's even dealing with those fears. [00:39:07.04]

Yeah, because you think you're pregnant. (Laughter) But the reality is that once we deal with a group of emotions that cause these kinds of pregnancies to occur, which are all to do with needing a child and wanting a child to love you. There are all sorts of emotions associated with why a woman is very open from a very young age to becoming pregnant, and why a man is very ready at a very young age to make a woman pregnant. There is a whole group of emotions associated with both the men and the women that need to be addressed. Once we address those particular emotions, you get to the point where you only become pregnant when you have a passionate desire to have a child. [00:39:48.14]

Participant: And that has to be with your soulmate.

Well it would be under certain circumstances. But at this point I'm only looking at the experience of mankind over an experimental period of time, and what we can then assume based on what we've observed occur so far. I'm not even talking about what the future is; only about what we've observed has occurred historically. So in this discussion, I'm not discussing the possibilities of what could occur. I'm discussing what has actually occurred, and what that tells us about our design. [00:40:28.12]

8.1.7. Determining the morality of sex continued

So what this tells us about our design is if these positive aspects of having sex that we have listed are in operation, then you will find that the sexual relationship will be very enjoyable and will be completely risk free. So you could put all of those positive aspects of having sex together and say that they all result in no pain.

And if they all result in no pain then obviously there is a higher likelihood... we don't know for certain at this point because we're just looking an experiment that we've carried out for many thousands of years, but there's a higher likelihood that these assumptions that we've now made about God, and God's design of us with regard to sexual morality must be fairly true, or fairly correct. Because we've had thousands of years to test it, and it's become quite obvious that anything outside of that creates pain. And therefore it becomes obvious that from a sexual perspective, that these particular things must be a part of what we would call God's sexual morality. [00:41:39.13]

Now, as you get closer and closer to God you realise there are other things involved in it as well. In fact you'll find that there's a soulmate, this design issue of the other half of yourself, and there are a lot of other things involved in it. But you might not know that at the beginning of any experiment. All we can do from all of these experiments that man has done over hundreds and thousands of years is to add together the results, and we can compare them to what must be moral.

Mary: I feel I'm engaged in an experiment and so I want to ask something that's probably fairly contentious. I feel it's immoral to have sex with anyone but your soulmate, because I feel that true love cannot be present. I don't feel that true love, not barter or the sharing of addiction in a relationship will not be truly present in a sexual way in its sexual expression, unless I'm with my soulmate. Is that true? [00:42:51.01]

Well that is a truth, yes, but it's not yet a truth that mankind generally has discovered.

Mary: I understand that. I'm sorry if I'm taking us away from that.

I agree completely with what you're saying, as you know.

Mary: Well I wasn't sure on the part about the love being present.

I agree completely with everything you're saying, as you know, but it's not what man's discovered. So if we look just generally through the mankind's experience... you know humankind's experience over thousands of years, we've at least discovered the positive aspects of having sex that doesn't result in pain. [00:43:27.17]

Mary: And my feeling is if we engaged that with sincerity, we would soon discover that last bit. [00:43:33.01]

Exactly, we would get to the point where we would find only one partner with whom we can have sex, whether they wanted to have sex with us or not. It becomes immaterial if they don't want to, as we finish up not wanting sex with anyone else. So we get to that point as we develop. But at this stage, most of mankind are not at that developed place but they have at least worked out these things, (AJ points to the positive aspects of sex on the whiteboard) in terms of sexual morality. And so therefore we can then presume that these things must be part of God's morality, unless we get some further experimentation that proves otherwise. And this is the issue that we have with morality. We are going to have to examine it through the eyes of some kind of experiment, because unless we are connected with God, we are not going to know God's desire, and so therefore we're going to have to experiment. [00:44:32.25]

8.1.8. Connecting to God is the most rapid way to discover morality

The faster way of course to deal with this issue as to what is right with regard to sexual morality is to actually connect to God, because when you connect to God you sort out the issues very, very rapidly. Such as, "I feel bad if I have sex with anyone other than my soulmate," so straight away that means it must be God's intention. "I feel bad even with my soulmate if love is not present. So if I can't have sex, if love's not present even if it was with my soulmate as it feels bad." Straight away I can feel that. All of these things in fact you can feel very rapidly once you connect with God directly. But I'm saying that we all on the planet have the choice to either connect with God, or not. That being the case, there must be a way to measure morality aside from the connection with God, and there is; by examining through the experiment of the human condition what has resulted in pain, and what has resulted in no pain. Then obviously the thing that is no pain is the intention and the desire of the creator. [00:45:40.05]

When I do these intellectual reasoning's you still struggle with some of them. Do I say them so quickly that it's like, "What did he say? What did he say?" Is that what happens? Sorry about that. It is so inbuilt inside of me that it's so easy to say without... and I understand that listening to it sometimes you have to go, "What was that again? What was that again?" So I get that process is a necessary process. [00:46:14.00]

Participant: Can you talk a little bit more about connecting with God? [00:46:18.08]

Sure but I've done that a lot in previous discussions. Have you seen "The Way" presentation?

Participant: I haven't seen, it but I have heard it.

My suggestion is to watch that over and over, because that's a lot about connection with God. [00:46:40.20]

Participant: But you talked about the feeling of something either feeling feels good, or feeling bad when you're connected to God.

Yes what happens inside of you when you have released the emotions that caused any negative feelings to exist inside of yourself, any fear based feelings in other words... So a lot of religions come at what they would call morals from a fear based perspective. I'm not coming at them from a fear based perspective. All I'm saying here with these morals is that through the human condition and experiment, we have found that certain things cause pain and certain things don't. So through that process we need to examine it openly and say. "Okay these things don't seem to cause pain to anybody, children or the mutual partners involved, and so therefore there is a high likelihood that was our original design intention." [00:47:39.20]

Participant: So we need to have an open heart to be able to feel? [00:47:44.00]

Yes, now let's factor God into this process. If God were factored into this process what would happen is this. I would not need to look at anything that's happened to the human condition and experiment. All I need to do is heal my relationship with God. It's only when I heal that relationship that I can feel God. [00:48:38.10]

The way that I go about doing that is I also need to heal my relationship with myself, including the other half of myself, or my soulmate. Now once I heal my relationship with God, and I heal my relationship with myself, and I focus on doing those two things only, I become very certain very quickly in that process of what is right for myself, and what feels wrong for myself. And the reason why I do is because I can feel what is painful and what is not, and so I then know very, very quickly what is right and what is wrong without having to look at the experiments that other people have done. I don't need to do that when I heal my relationship with God. [00:49:38.28]

But in this discussion of morality, I've been suggesting that if we can't do that, we still have these ways of determining what is right and wrong by looking at the human experiment. So we can't sit down and go, "Ah, I'm not connected with God and I'm not connected with myself, so I don't really know what the truth is." It's not true. You can look at the human experiment and see through the pain in the human experiment where the truth is; you don't even have to be connected to anything to do that. You can just sit back and go, "I'm not connected to God, and I'm not connected to myself." But you can still look and you can see what obviously is "right", in the sense of what our original design intention was to be. And what is "wrong", in the sense of what is outside of our design parameters. [00:50:30.20]

When you heal your relationship with God and heal your relationship with yourself, you don't need to examine the human condition over thousands of years. This will not only resolve in you knowing the same things as the thousands of years of experiments demonstrate, but you'll know some more additional things. One of the additional things you'll know is that soulmates exist, and once I am open to my soulmate; I cannot be open to anyone else. That's one of the things you'll discover through that process. But if you decide not to heal your relationship with yourself, or heal your relationship with God, there is still a means of determining our original design for a desire that causes the least pain. So we can't use the excuse of, "I'm not connected with God," or, "I'm not connected with myself, so therefore I do not know," because the reality is if we examine the human condition, we can easily find out in that other people have made the experiments for us. [00:51:43.04]

Participant: With the healing can you go to someone to walk you through it, support you, and hold your hand through your own process, or would you prefer that each individual person does it on their own? [00:51:57.19]

Well initially you can go through getting somebody to hold your hand through the process, but they're not going to be able to hold you through the entire process, because part of the process is letting go of the hand and having to do it on your own. So while it might be good for you to begin the process by having someone hold your hand and educate you and show you what to do, sooner or later you're going to have to stand on your own two feet. That's part of growing up, and that's also part of healing the relationship with yourself. And so at some point in the future you're going to have to be willing to let whoever's holding your hand go, so that you can complete the process. [00:52:39.13]

Now what I personally find is the earlier that you can learn to let somebody else's hand go, but still continue the process, usually the faster you go on the process. This is because while you've got hold of their hand, you've now attached yourself to their will, and you've now attached yourself to what they do in return. So you're still in some kind of addiction with the other person and unless you let go of that, you're not going to fully be in this connection with God. [00:53:11.22]

But there are some advantages right at the beginning in doing that because you need to be educated, you need to be shown, you need to be taught, you need to learn how to do these things and that requires somebody who has, who is in front of you showing you what to do. So this is why in the spirit world there are like literally millions and millions of spirits who are showing other spirits what to do, but they don't hold their hand for the entire journey. They let go of their hand and the person becomes more and more self responsible. And when you become at-one with God, you are now completely self responsible. So you do not need to hold the hand of another in order to reach the condition of at-onement with God. [00:54:02.06]

So if I heal my relationship with God and my relationship with myself, (I won't discuss in this discussion how to heal them), I'll just say that if I do heal them then I can determine, because of my relationship with God and myself now that's established completely, what God's morality is on all sorts of issues. Not just sexual morality but all sorts of issues of morality. [00:54:26.29]

8.2. The morality surrounding stealing

Let's look at some other issues of morality that doesn't involve sex, but rather involve what happens in relationships. So let's say there are two people, there are two guys and the first guy decides that it's right for him to steal from the second guy. Can you describe to me what goes on there emotionally and physically? What is the act of stealing? [00:55:04.02]

One man steels from another man

Participant: It's taking without permission.

Taking without permission! Yeah. What's its result? How does it feel, how does it feel on the receiving end? Who's had stuff stolen from them? Most of us, you can tell me what it feels like. [00:55:41.17]

Participant: It feels bad, like you feel like your trust has been broken with them. [00:55:48.19]

So there's a feeling of broken trust, yeah. There's a feeling sometimes of abuse, yeah. Violation. [00:56:01.29]

Participant: Loss.

Loss. Invasion. There's disbelief a lot of the times; that's for certain. [00:56:14.22]

Participant: I couldn't believe that someone would steal something from me. [00:56:17.15]

Yeah, particularly if it's somebody that you knew or just... [00:56:21.09]

Participant: Well, no I was a young kid and said, "Can you just watch my bike while I go and play this game?" And I came out and it was gone, and it's like why would someone steal my bike? You know I couldn't believe it. [00:56:29.03]

Yeah. Disbelief.

8.2.1. Anything that creates pain is a moral error

So would you say those are painful or pleasurable experiences? Painful. So what does pain tell us? That it's got to be a moral error. So anything that creates this pain has to be a moral error. So stealing must be an immoral act. Isn't that a pretty valid assumption?

9. Examples of determining ethics and morality using the descriptions given in this presentation

9.1. The ethics and morality of speaking the truth

Mary: I'd just really love it if you wouldn't mind giving us the example of truth. We're talking about relationships now, and there are two guys and one guy tells the truth to the other one. [00:57:46.16]

Okay, so two guys. One guy tells the truth, he decides that it's right to tell the truth to the other person. How does everyone feel? How does the receiver feel? [00:58:08.23]

A man telling the truth may affect the man receiving the truth in some way

Mary: What if he tells the truth, "I stole from you mate. You didn't know but I stole from you." [00:58:17.00]

Yeah, that's a good.

Mary: Is that being too contentious?

Well that's even adding some extra complexity to the problem, yes. But he tells the truth.

9.1.1. The ethics and morality surrounding the truth giver

Obviously the truth may affect the person in some way. The person telling the truth may affect the person in some way. So this is now where it starts getting difficult for many people to determine because who feels pain? A lot of times the recipient feels pain. Now of course if this person telling the truth does it with an attitude of rage, fear, resentment, attack, arrogance, then how will the recipient feel? Really bad! So obviously now we're starting to deal with issues of attitude as well as what is moral with regard to our attitude. [00:59:28.14]

So now we're adding both the ethics and morality together. We now have to look at our intentions, which requires a lot more refinement in our condition of love than it does just to look at the results over a period of thousands of years, the general results of something. To look at our attitude we need to know what our attitude is. We need to be developed enough to actually feel what our attitude is. So now we're starting to examine things like attitude, and the attitude of the giver of the truth in this case. [01:00:02.11]

So if the attitude of the giver of the truth is this (AJ points to the list on the whiteboard), then the person who's giving the truth firstly isn't ethical because he's not treating the other person as he would like to be treated. He wouldn't like to receive anger, rage or fear or resentment or attack or condescension, so why is he giving it? He's already out of harmony with ethics. And of course since he's out of harmony with ethics, he must also be out of harmony with morality. So he's got to be out of harmony with both, if the attitude is incorrect. [01:00:39.28]

But let's say that's not the case. Let's say the giver has is an attitude of love, concern for their spiritual welfare, their long term welfare, kindness, compassion, understanding etc. Now we can say the giver at least is in harmony with the first issue at least, and there's a likelihood since he's in harmony with ethics, that he's possibly in harmony with morality. Possibly, there are a number of different additional things to be in harmony with morality. To be in harmony with morality it has to be God's Truth and it has to be done in harmony with the Laws of Free Will. Then he's in harmony with the morality issues. [01:02:15.12]

So if we examine the issue, you could say if he does deliver the truth with these loving attitudes (AJ circles the top group of words on the whiteboard) then he's in harmony with the ethics and he delivers the truth with this attitude, (AJ circles God's Truth and in harmony with Free will on the whiteboard) then he's also in harmony with God's morality. [01:02:41.07]

Mary: So if we use the example of say, I've stolen from Fabio and Fabio doesn't know it, I'm actually acting in harmony with free will to tell him that I've done it haven't I? [01:02:53.22]

You are.

Mary: Because his will may be affected by this truth.

He has the right to know it, and the right to make a choice now that he knows it. [01:03:01.13]

Mary: Yeah because often you hear people talking about things in marriages, infidelity and things like that, and they justify not saying a truth because it will hurt the... [01:03:11.10]

Because they think the other person might be hurt. Remember at this point we've only analysed the giver's emotion here, not the receiver's yet, just the giver. [01:03:27.02]

Participant: If you take that one step further, for example hypothetically; I know something about your relationship, and Mary's done something to you and I'm your friend and I find... [01:03:40.12]

Why couldn't you be Mary's friend?

Participant: No I mean like I'm both your friends...

Of course! (Laughter)

Participant: But being your friend I know this secret that Mary's holding from you, and it's getting very difficult for me to have a relationship with both of you, especially you because I know this secret. So every time we're together I know this secret, I can't say anything, I've been told not to say anything. Does that go into being in harmony with truth by telling Mary to say something to you? [01:04:06.27]

Well wouldn't love of Mary for a start dictate that you say something to me? [01:04:10.23]

Participant: Yes.

And wouldn't love of me dictate you to say something to me? [01:04:13.24]

Participant: Yes, but would I have first told Mary to tell you before...

Of course, you'd give... if you loved her, you'd want her to give her the option of telling me first rather than... [01:04:25.12]

Participant: Out of free will, yeah.

Yep, you want her to give her an option, but I also have the free will that I need to know as well. [01:04:34.09]

Participant: But you may not want to know.

Well no, that's not necessarily true, but you don't know that until you say it; you're not going to know. So my feelings are in that situation it's quite obvious that firstly if you love Mary, you'd want Mary to have the opportunity to tell me and if you love me, whether Mary took the opportunity to tell me or not, you'd want to tell me still. [01:04:59.13]

Mary: Say if someone has entered into a situation like the one just described, that's given me the opportunity to tell you some truth. I haven't taken it, and Fabio tells you and then we both get angry at Fabio. You could easily look at that and go, "Well there's just pain all round." But if you look at it years down the track, there's so much healing and growth that happens from that truth. [01:05:42.13]

9.1.2. Painful outcomes need to be examined over long time periods

Yes, remember pain doesn't necessarily mean that it's instant. We've got to measure the pain over periods of time. This is why when I encouraged you to look at how the world treats each other sexually; I said to do so over thousands of years because we need to examine it over a period of time to see what the general reaction is. [01:06:05.05]

So in the case of a relationship where one person is cheating on the other, there is obviously large amounts of problems over a long period time that results from those particular things, both for the person who's done the cheating with guilt and other emotions that they've not released, and for the person who's not heard about it. There would obviously be a lot of pain once they hear about it. They'd realise that they don't have the relationship that they imagined; this is also an issue with regard to pain. So the reality is the pain began the moment the person cheated, not the moment somebody said something about it. The pain has already begun. [01:06:44.25]

Now in this case what we're doing is we're saying that the truth teller, in this case in your example it would be Fabio, is telling the truth firstly to Mary, "I know that you've cheated on AJ, I know that you've done something in your relationship with AJ that he should know about, which I feel he should know about, and that it's right for him to know about. And if you loved him you'd tell him. I'm going to give you the opportunity to express that love for a week or two, but if you don't express that love to him in a week or two, then I have to express that love to him because I love him too." And Mary then says... [01:07:24.05]

Participant: Mary says that I'm blackmailing you! (Laughter)

Well now, yes, now we're talking about the receiver aren't we? So firstly we want to address the attitude of the giver. So we address the attitude of the giver, and the giver is now in a condition of harmony with ethics. If it was you and your partner was cheating on you, you'd like to know. So you're in harmony with ethics and you're also in harmony with God's morality in the sense that God would like all of his children to treat each other ethically, and God would like all his children to know the truth about their relationships. So you're now in harmony with God's morality and you're also in harmony with pure ethics. So the attitude of the giver is now established as being perfectly in harmony with God, and with morality and ethics.

9.1.3. The ethics and morality surrounding the truth receiver

So now let's look at the attitude of the receiver. If we're going to look at the attitude of the giver of truth, we also need to examine the attitude of the receiver of truth. So let's look at the attitude of the receiver. What is the potential attitude of the receiver if they are out of harmony with these ethics and morality? They might get angry, resentful, feel punishing, they might attack the truth giver; they might try to make his life miserable. They might try to do something in return, to threaten. So they might actually blackmail emotionally or physically the giver. [01:09:34.29]

Participant: Or think that the giver's the blackmailer.

Well that's one way they blackmail, yes. A way of blackmailing a giver is to accuse the giver of blackmailing them. That connects the giver with emotions of guilt in the giver, and then the giver starts thinking, "Am I doing the right thing or not?" And then because there's a question about whether they're doing the right thing or not, the giver doesn't give in love.

Now if that is the attitude of the receiver, can you see the receiver is out of harmony with ethics, because it's not how they'd like to be treated? They wouldn't like to have someone angry with them, they wouldn't like to have someone resentful of them, they wouldn't like to have someone trying to punish them, they wouldn't like to have someone attacking them, and they wouldn't like to have someone blackmailing them. So how dare they blackmail the other person emotionally? [01:10:25.09]

If Mary was the receiver and engaged with you, the truth giver, and said, "You're blackmailing me." You answer "Hang on a sec, no I'm not, and you are now blackmailing me by accusing me of blackmailing you. All I'm doing is acting in harmony with love, which you have not done. And you're now blackmailing me by trying to get me to not act in harmony with love." So can you see the attitude of the receiver instantly is out of harmony with ethics and so therefore the receiver is not ethical and therefore can't be moral? So what would be the ethical attitude of the receiver? Humility, gratitude, perhaps grief; feeling their own grief, and feeling their own fear. [01:11:34.00]

Participant: Humiliation?

Well that's not a humble response is it? They might desire repentance. They'd be self reflective and if they were in harmony with God what would they do? They would desire God's Truth about the cause of why they did what they did. But if they did this at least, they'd be in harmony with ethics because that's exactly what they'd expect from another person who they told the truth to, wouldn't they? So if they had to go and tell the truth to someone else, they'd like them to be humble and to be grateful. They'd like them to feel their grief and feel their fear rather than projecting it at them. They'd like them to go into repentance if they could, and they'd at least like them to be a little self reflective. [01:12:53.14]

And if they were in harmony with God, they would actually desire to get to the bottom of the whole problem. They would want to actually work out what was the reason they did what they did in the first place. As soon as they don't do that, they're not in harmony with morals. And as soon as they don't do that, they're not in harmony with ethics. Can you see everything's quite simple when you boil it down to these two underlying principles of ethics and morality? In a lot of ways it's quite simple to determine what's going on. [01:13:25.10]

9.2. The ethics and morality of a daughter hitting her father

So I feel that one's pretty easy. Here's a more difficult one. The situation is that there is a father and his child, and the child wants to hit her father. Wants to physically punch or hit her father.

A child hits their father

9.2.1. The ethics and morality surrounding the child

So what's the child's attitude? There must be some anger, some aggression and there could be some frustration, disrespect and indignation. This is the child's attitude. She wants to punish, she wants revenge. She resents her father. Fear! I don't know if somebody hits another person it's highly unlikely they're afraid. [01:15:17.16]

Participant: Attention seeking.

Could be, but now we're starting to assume things in terms of what the underlying motive was. We'll just take a look at the action; obviously the action has a number of different things. Now is the attitude of the child in harmony with ethics? No. The child is being unethical. Now we're only looking at the attitude of the child at this point. [01:15:53.00]

Participant: The child is so small that it doesn't really know that it's being ethical or not isn't it? [01:15:57.13]

The child is totally capable of knowing whether it's being ethical, actually. This is one of the misunderstandings we have about children. We think that because they're three years of age and they come up and hit us and bite us that they don't really understand what they're doing. Dead right they understand what they're doing; they know they're hitting us and they know they're causing pain. That's their whole intention. That's why they're doing it. They understand oftentimes far better than we do what the underlying feeling is. We often believe and allow our children to get away with murder, (as the saying goes), because we believe that they don't really understand when they have a great understanding emotionally of what they feel, and we need to focus them on what they feel. So can you see the child is treating his father unethically? So therefore the child is out of harmony with God's morals as well, because it's not right to treat another person unethically.

9.2.2. The ethics and morality surrounding the father

Let's look at the attitude of the father. What is the father's attitude; what would be most fathers' attitudes? They'd be angry in return. Hurt. How many of you have had your child hit you or bite you or attack you in some way? Some of you! Yeah. So you know what the feelings are. What were you feeling? Disappointed, shocked. What if you'd just done something to the child, what would you feel? Guilt, defensive, controlling, unloved – that's a big one women feel when their children hit them. Ashamed, especially in public! Yeah. Bad parent, that's really about shame isn't it? [01:18:52.21]

So now are all of these fear based actions things that you'd like to feel from somebody else? No, so you're already unethical as a parent when you feel those particular things. What would be the ethical feelings of the parent? Well there would be some feelings of love, but let's define them. We have compassion, a desire to correct, to listen maybe. You would perhaps understand. You'd want to be humble in the experience, so you'd want to look at yourself to see what is inside of me to have attracted my child to hit me.

And a lot of times it could just be the fact that the child knows it's going to get away with it, so that might be what's inside of you; this feeling that you should let you child get away with murder. Many parents have that feeling where they're willing to let their child get away with things they'd never let anybody else get away with. Would you let me come up and bop you in the nose? No. You ladies, would you let me punch you in the breast? No. I've seen many of your children do exactly that, punch somebody, a woman, another woman in the breast. You wouldn't let me do it so why would you let them do it? There's something wrong. There's obviously an emotion inside of you where you feel, "It's my child, I'm allowed to let them get away with murder." Would you let your child sexually abuse another child? Would you be happy if your own child got sexually abused? So of course it would be unethical to let another child be abused by your child, would it not? But I've seen that happen too. [01:21:04.06]

So the attitude of a loving father here, which is in harmony with his ethics, would be he'd love the child; he'd have compassion for the child. This is very important; he would desire to correct the child's unloving behaviour with regard to ethics. He would need to do something to correct the child's unloving behaviour. That might involve listening, and it might involve understanding and being humble, but it also might involve restricting the free will of the child, because if the child is exercising its free will in a violent manner, then you've got to restrict it. You've got to somehow stop the child from exercising its will in a violent manner. Of course if you do that and you then realise, "I've exercised my will in a violent manner," then you'd have to deal with your own actions as well. [01:22:07.12]

Participant: Is there a desire to want to teach the child as well as correct them? [01:22:12.01]

Yes, that's what I mean by correct. I use the word correct, but let's define the word correct. I call it discipline and the word discipline comes from the word disciple, which comes from the word to teach. So a person being taught is a disciple, and the word discipline comes from the action of being taught something. So when we desire to correct, we desire to give discipline, which is actually the action to give teaching to the person who needs correction. [01:23:11.20]

Now if he were in harmony with God's morality, what would he teach? God's Truth, God's Laws and Truth and the ethical use of free will. The child by hitting his father is demonstrating the unethical use of its own free will. The parent, if he loved the child, would have to correct the child so that they had an ethical use of their free will. And he'd have to take some form of correction that restricted the child's free will, but in a non-violent or aggressive manner. And in the discussion about free will that I gave a few weeks ago, I discussed what non violence is, and non violence includes no emotional violence. [01:24:24.26]

Participant: This would still be the same if you were the parent observing two of your children doing that to each other? [01:24:30.18]

Of course, yes. These principles apply to every situation that we could ever think of. There is always unethical behaviour usually once violence occurs, and therefore there is something that has to be done by one or both parents involved that something needs to be done or said at least said. Whether in fact the child wishes for that particular thing to happen or not! Because the child itself is unfortunately now learning to utilise its free will in an unethical and violent manner.

9.2.3. Restricting violent behaviour ethically

Participant: Isaac, my son, is twelve now, so he's getting quite hard to hold on to. [01:25:12.11]

He might take three people to hold him down, yes. [01:25:14.13]

Participant: Oh, okay. (Laughter)

What would you do with an adult? You might put them in a padded cell and lock the door to restrict them from their unethical use of their violence, and unethical use of their own free will, certainly. A lot of people think about me, "He's all about love, so therefore he's all about tolerance of bad behaviour." Tolerance of bad behaviour is not loving. This is something we need to come to terms with. Tolerance of emotional bad behaviour is not loving, tolerance of physically bad behaviour is not loving to the person involved, or to the person that they perpetrated their action upon. It's not loving to either of those. [01:26:17.02]

Participant: So would I do the same thing if it wasn't my child, in a family situation with somebody else's children?

Definitely I would. I do it with people I don't even know, and of course they're totally confronted with that. A lot of fathers want to bop me in the nose, but honestly how can I allow a child to come up and hit me without taking some corrective action? I can't. [01:26:41.25]

Participant: And if he hit somebody else?

Well if he hit somebody else, then that person who is hitting needs to take the corrective action. [01:26:48.04]

Participant: And if they don't?

Well then they've got some things to learn about love. [01:26:51.27]

Mary: So in that instance where someone's hitting somebody else, you would give teaching to both people involved in that situation? [01:27:15.29]

Definitely, I would talk to the person who's receiving the hit. I would talk to the parent, if the parent is open to receiving the information. A lot of times the parent isn't, but I would talk to the parent and I'd talk to the child as well if I had the opportunity. If it was happening right next to me, I'd probably say something. It depends a little because now we're talking about what is their free will, and the fact that it's not impacting upon myself is part of the issue. However, the fact that it is impacting upon someone else, particularly if that someone else is a child! It definitely needs to be addressed. If that someone else is an adult, then it would be more inappropriate to act without that adult acting. If that somebody else is a child, it would always be appropriate to act, whether that child is a child of the person perpetrating the action or not. The reason why is because the child does need some kind of protection from the perpetrated act. [01:28:26.27]

9.3. Dealing with violent behaviour within a family ethically and morally

Participant: In a family where the siblings are at each other there has to be action to separate them and sit and talk to them, to correct their behaviour. [01:28:35.26]

So let's look at it in detail. Do you want to raise what you want to firstly? I'll just draw it first. Mum and dad and then there's children which might be two boys and a girl, which is my family. The siblings are bickering, fighting causing problems with each other, yes? [01:29:08.29]

A family with two parents, two sons and a daughter

Participant: Yep and there has to be corrective behaviour by the parents. [01:29:12.26]

There does.

Participant: But in the end there's going to be the parents' emotions that they are just playing out? [01:29:19.28]

Not necessarily because it could also be the emotions of people in the environment, if the parents have gone out to dinner or something, and there are people around the children. It could be their emotions that are affecting the children now, so it might not be just the parents' emotions that are affecting the child. It could also be spirits over cloaking the children, because the parents are going away from their own bodies. It could be an issue of the parents disconnecting from their life and then spirits over cloaking their children, and then causing the children to fight with each other. So there could be a number of possible causes. If we look at the attitudes of the parents in terms of what would love do, or what would the ethical behaviour do. So what would the parents do? [01:30:00.06]

Participant: About the siblings fighting? I would be sort of self reflective if I were the parent. [01:30:09.02]

So self reflection! Self reflection is really what? The quality of firstly going, "Okay, what am I doing right now as a parent that seems to suddenly create this nightmare that goes on between my children?" Now in that self reflection they would have to look at their inter-gender issues, and same gender issues. So in other words they'd need to look at, "are the boys fighting all the time? Or are the boys fighting with the girl? Or is the girl attacking the boy all the time? What's actually going on? They need to look at the inter-gender and same gender issues in a self reflective manner. [01:31:17.02]

So their attitude will be one of humility first. However, there also needs to be action, there needs to be some kind of correction, doesn't there? You can't just sit down there and you watch them fighting each other and go, "Yeah, I'm just feeling my feelings about this." (Laughter) And of course there's now bedlam going on as they're chasing each other around with knifes or something. Obviously you need to take some kind of corrective action. Part of the process is to take some immediate corrective action, but also to be very self reflective in the process and to own your own feelings.

If you notice, for instance, that the girl is attacking the boys or criticising the boys all the time, and then the boys get sick of it and bop her in the nose, mum and dad would have to look at their attitudes towards men and women. Obviously the girl is reflecting an attitude where she feels aggressive towards the male and wants to criticize and pull them down. She obviously feels she's lesser than the male, so mum would have to look at the issue of why she feels lesser than the male and feels the need to criticise the male. Then when the boy bops the woman, dad would need to have a look at the issue of why he feels that violence is justified under some circumstances and conditions, when he gets attacked. So they can be very, very self reflective about those particular issues. [01:32:57.01]

It's ethical for the father and mother to be self reflective, to have humility, to examine the inter-gender issues, but it's also ethical for them to take action. They must act to restrict the free will, because the free will is being used in an unethical manner amongst the children, so there has got to be some kind of action taken. [01:33:31.17]

Participant: So this is my family scenario – I have two boys and a girl. If there is only one parent at home, and all three of them are going off, how do you determine...? [01:33:49.21]

Tara you want to blame the other parent.

Participant: Oh.

How did the emotions arrive in these children?

Participant: From both of us.

From both parents! So it would be wise whether a parent is home or not, for both parents to examine. [01:34:12.00]

Participant: With taking action though to correct behaviour, who do you deal with first? [01:34:16.24]

It's pretty hard when there are three people.

Participant: So even if I try to pick Zia up and just put her in her room to punch her pillow instead of punching her brother while I deal with the brothers. [01:34:27.00]

I wouldn't even do that.

10. Restricting children who are being violent ethically and morally

Firstly, the person who's perpetrating the most violence you grab hold of and restrict. And if that means holding them down on the ground and you sit on top of them, that's what you do. [01:34:41.15]

10.1. Phases that children go through when they are being restricted

Participant: When we hold Zia, she doesn't react she just goes numb, whereas the boys... [01:34:44.22]

That's because you don't hold her long enough.

Participant: Oh yeah, the boys react straight away.

Of course but you don't hold her long enough. She goes, "If I just relax, a minute later my mum's just going to get tired of it." So you sit on her for ten minutes or fifteen minutes until there's a reaction, because there's always going to be a reaction from a restriction if their action has been violently unloving, or in other words unethical. This is what happened to some friends of ours. They did the restriction thing for a day or two and then one of the children realised that he could plead and stop the restriction. He'd go, "This isn't good mummy. You're hurting me; you're making me feel bad..." And it just played on mummy's guilt so much that, what does she do? She let go. Smart cookie! They learn very rapidly.

Participant: I did that with Eisha whose four years old and she went straight into this, "You're killing me dad I'm going to die," and all of this kind of stuff. She had been hitting her mum and then she went sort of limp and after that. [01:36:11.06]

Yes they'll go through all sorts of things to manipulate you because children can feel your emotion and they are very good at working it out. And boys and girls respond very differently of course, usually. A girl generally responds by doing the kind of thing you described. Firstly she says, "Daddy, you're hurting me." [01:36:39.04]

Participant: "I can't breathe, I'm going to die."

"I can't breathe, going to die," all of this kind of stuff which is a lot of crap; it's just something to make you feel guilty. So what does that tell you? You respond to the guilt of the woman. [01:36:51.27]

Participant: But I didn't stop this time I actually held her still.

So you held her and then she goes into what I call the limp phase. [01:36:59.13]

Participant: And I still held her.

The limp phase is, if I go all limp and everything there's no resistance and eventually you'll let go. So then there's usually the limp phase, and then after the limp phase it goes to? [01:37:14.12]

Participant: I still held her and then she cried.

Many then go into rage and then they go into grief. It's the grief that's the healing part, then you can let go of them and just hold them while they feel their grief. [01:37:32.04]

Phases a child goes through when they are being restricted from perpetrating violence

10.2. Learning from how children react when they are restricted

Participant: But when Laura restricted her, Eisha was rapt, she loved it. I'm close to mummy now she is smothered in her and Laura's like, "It's not working, she loves it." (Laughter) [01:37:45.20]

So what does that tell you?

Participant: That she wants to be close to her mum? [01:37:52.11]

Well it tells her that she just generally does not feel loved by her mother, doesn't it? [01:37:57.29]

Participant: Well she's in competition with me most of the time. [01:38:00.04]

Well she's in competition with her mother with you for love. [01:38:07.28]

Participant: Will she still hold her though if she's restricted... [01:38:10.00]

No, she gives her to you to hold to restrict.

Participant: And then I get all the guilt stuff happening. (Laughter) [01:38:16.08]

No you see if one parent restricts the child after it's taken a violent action that is unethical, and the child loves the action that that parent is taking. Then you give the child to the other parent because it's obviously an issue with the other parent.

Mary: If I were in that scenario, if I were Laura, I would go, "Oh, wow, Eisha doesn't feel this. Part of the reason why she might be hitting is that she's not feeling close to me."

Exactly, that's self reflection again. If the parents were self reflective and all of a sudden they were loved, they were held and they felt love, then that tells you what they feel they are missing. So if the parents were self reflective they'd go, "In my normal day to day life, obviously I feel in competition with my daughter and that's why she comes up and hits me sometimes for daddy's... [01:39:33.20]

Participant: Control and...

Yeah! And all that kind of stuff. So when mummy holds me I feel wonderful, that means that's what she's missing. It tells you a lot. This is why a parent has to be humble. It is very important. You learn a lot through this process by doing it in a tactile manner that's non violent. You also learn a lot through the process because you have to be present as a parent to do that. So it's wonderful. [01:40:05.03]

Participant: In that action of holding them, of correcting them, if their anger does start to come up for you though and you've moved from humility to being angry, you then need to let them go. Is that right? You can't keep restraining if you're starting to feel anger, which has happened to us with Noah. [01:40:25.16]

Yeah, you're now in an act of violence towards the child. [01:40:27.20]

Participant: Yeah, so it's better and more loving to then let them go, and go and deal with the anger. [01:40:32.05]

Yeah, you wouldn't like anger so it's unethical to dump your anger on another person, including a child. So give it to the other parent. This is where if there are two parents it's wonderful. [01:40:47.18]

Participant: What if you're a single parent?

Well, if you're a single parent you can always enlist the help of a third party to involve in these kinds of actions, unless of course there is no third party surrounding you at your home. But this is the trouble with single parent households is it's particularly difficult, especially if you've got lots of children to engage with, to then restrict the behaviour of the child in order to teach them. But it's still possible if you enlist the help of others. [01:41:20.07]

Participant: And the complications with that I suppose is, you can't just ring someone up and get them to come over, because half an hour passes. Then it becomes difficult because it has to be done in the moment doesn't it? To be affective! [01:41:30.09]

Yes a lot of it needs to be done in the moment. However, don't shy away from doing delayed action if you couldn't do it in the moment, because the emotion is still present in the child.

10.2.1. Dealing with violent behaviour when shopping

So for example, let's say you're at a shopping centre and the child engages in a certain amount of behaviour that is obviously unloving. So what you do is you grab the child and take it home. So you just stop shopping and just say to people, "I'd like to leave my shopping here," and take the child home. When you get home you could then engage the restriction in a place that's more comfortable for you, you don't feel as many problems. And it doesn't matter what their age, you say to the child, "I'm doing this because half an hour ago you violently hit somebody, so this is why I've come home and I'm going to restrict you now." So you explain to the child, you connect the child with the action that they took and your response. That's all you need do. It can happen a day later even. You could do it a day later but it's best to do it within a few hours or within the next hour if you can. Because there is a connection of their behaviour with the action, and that's what you're trying to achieve. [01:42:44.23]

So I would definitely, if the child was at a supermarket, I'd just pick up the child while its screaming, take it out the door, shove it in its car seat, strap it up, take it home and I'd perhaps just sit there with it in its car seat and explain to the child. And then when it's all done and finished crying, might be two hours later, I would take it out of its car seat go back and try to pick up my shopping wherever I left it. [01:43:12.09]

So a lot of times there are very practical things we can do, but we're just too afraid to carry them out. We could do just a simple thing if we're worried about the amount of racket the child is causing and the distress it's causing the people around. We just take it to the car, sit it in the car seat, and wind up all the windows with us inside with a bit of air. We drive down the road into a parkland, pull over and just sit in the car waiting for the child to finish its screaming in the car seat. But to do that you've got to be an engaged parent. You've got to be a parent who loves their child, and is willing to break or stop your daily activity just for the sake of teaching them something. [01:44:02.29]

Participant: It's a silly question I'll refrain but can you duck tape them to a chair? (Laughter) [01:44:07.21]

Of course!

Participant: It's just not a physical restraint like you're saying with the car seat that's a restraint, but you're still with them in that moment and seeing it through. [01:44:16.13]

10.3. Advantages of being physically involved in the restraint

Yeah, of course there is going to be a lot more power if you actually are physically involved in the restraint. The reason why is there is usually something inside the parent that needs to also be corrected under these circumstances, and it would be wise for you to physically engage the actual action. When we disconnect ourselves as a parent from the physical action, in other words we send them to their room or something like that, we are no longer as a parent really parenting. We're now disconnecting ourselves from the action that we're restricting them with, and therefore there is a higher likelihood of them not learning any lesson from that restriction. [01:44:59.28]

Participant: And is that also distancing ourselves emotionally so it limits ourselves from learning to from that?

That's why we do it. We're angry or upset or whatever and we're avoiding our own stuff generally when we do things like that. The beauty of engaging it physically in a loving manner is that you have to now be present and involved. The other beautiful thing about that is because of your presence and involvement; you are now preventing any spirits from interfering with the process on the child. So there are a lot of advantages to you being presently engaged in the action.

It's exactly the same actually when you're dealing with adults. It's a lot better to be physically present in the action than it is to do something by Facebook or email. With Facebook or email you can't confront the emotions yourself, you can't feel what's going on and it's a delayed response. There are all sorts of problems with such interactions. It's far better if you can have a face to face interaction if it's possible, because you get the full effect of the confrontation which is very, very good.

10.4. Dealing with disagreements between siblings

Participant: What if it's not an act of outright violence, like a hit? What if it's more like a constant niggle, niggle, and niggle, push button, push button until you finally get an eruption like...? [01:46:25.29]

Well you need to look at my definition of violence which I've given in the presentation I did recently on free will, because in that definition I call a little niggle like that an act of violence. So my definition of violence is very wide and encompassing of a lot of emotional attitudes, not just physical violence. [01:46:48.17]

Participant: We often babysit our great nephews and there's a seven year age gap so... [01:46:58.13]

And one just niggles, niggles, pesters, and pesters.

Participant: The big one just pesters the little one, it doesn't happen that much at our place but at home apparently it's all the time and the parents just don't know what's going on. [01:47:10.19]

Well I could tell you what's going on, it's quite obvious. The older child is jealous of the attention the younger child receives and the older child feels less loved than the younger child, and the older child is receiving less love than the younger child. So it's quite obvious that mum and dad have a different attitude toward their younger child than they do towards their older child. So what I would do is I would talk to the older child, maybe even restrict its behaviour, but I would sit down with the older child and say, "You don't feel very loved do you? And you obviously feel like the younger child takes away all the attention." That's how the older child is feeling. [01:47:55.10]

Remember with an older child generally, there's a period of time in their life when they received the full attention of their parents and then when the second child comes along, the older child doesn't receive the full attention. Now if the full attention of the parent towards the older child is one of confusion, fear and violence, then of course the older child would like the shared attention. In other words they're receiving less confusion of fear and violence from the parents, and so therefore they probably enjoy that. But when the feeling coming towards the older child was one of love, acceptance and all of those kinds of things and an engagement of time that is fairly constant, and particularly if there are quite a few years gap between the two children, then the older child learns that it should be the centre of somebody's attention. Then when the second child comes along there is a big confrontation with regard to the aspect of attention. So the older child doesn't feel loved anymore. It doesn't mean that they're not being loved; it just means they don't feel as much love anymore and there's got to be a reason why. [01:49:02.23]

11. Dealing with the media ethically and morally

Participant: My question is about something that you mentioned and I thought, "I'm going to make sure this gets answered before..."

You're going to demand an answer of this are you? Participant: Well, no, no it's...No, I'm just joking with you. (Laughs)

Participant: You said something at the beginning of the day about those who were actually interviewed. [01:49:27.11]

Ah, yes.

Participant: And you haven't said anything about it.

I was just about to because it's nearly time to finish, so I need to say something about it.

11.1. Unethical requirements of the media

So in this case we have an interviewer and an interviewee. What did the interviewer want from the interviewee? He wanted an interview. He wanted a signed agreement. Well he requested that of all of you. [01:50:18.08]

Participant: To actually sign something?

Yeah.

The media required a signed agreement for the interview

Participant: No I didn't. He didn't mention that to me. No I didn't sign anything. [01:50:22.10]

Well you then got away with it, but he actually requested a signed agreement from every person who he interviewed.

Participant: What about those who were on camera?

Well no, remember he read out at the beginning he said, "Anybody who doesn't want to be involved in this process of being on camera, please let us know." And that indemnified him against any claim that you could have made. If you didn't go up to him and say, then that's automatically accepted as acceptance. [01:50:57.20]

Participant: Yeah, I understand that.

Now the reason why I say you engaged unethical behaviour is because you know what happened? He was unwilling to sign the same agreement. If you were ethical with him, you'd have asked, "Well what if I want to use this material however I want to use it, would you sign the same agreement?" Now this is something we raised with him after your interviews and he was very, very upset with us after the interviews. The issue we raised with them last night was, "Why are you so upset when it is a requirement of us engaging this process with you? We require that we are able to use material that might involve you?" [01:52:03.00]

11.1.1. The tendency of people to treat the media as more important than themselves is not moral

You see most people think of media, "Oh media it's wonderful to be in the media isn't it?" It is not true, but it's a feeling a lot of people have, which is a feeling of wanting some attention and wanting some approval, which you don't get in that interaction. But there is also this sensation that we're willing to overlook moral and ethical love based issues in interactions with people who are in positions of authority. And as a result of that, we often allow behaviour from them that they would never engage with us in an equal way. We already put them above ourselves. [01:52:53.22]

So when these two people get together, the interviewer and interviewee, there's usually an automatic acceptance in the interviewee that the interviewer drives everything, and the interviewer then becomes more important to the interviewee, than the interviewee's own feelings are. And in that process we abscond, and we actually withdraw from a moral interaction. We're actually saying that he deserves to be treated in a different manner because he's the interviewer, than I deserve to be treated as the interviewee. [01:53:38.20]

And when he was confronted by myself and Mary that his face would be on the internet because he chose to want to interview us, he wanted to not do the interview, and he was very, very angry and upset with us. He was also a bit angry with his producer because the producer never told him that that was our requirement. So I can understand him being upset with his producer, not so much with us. [01:54:13.18]

11.1.2. It is unethical to require a signed agreement while refusing to sign an agreement yourself

If you think about it, how ethical is it as a business to expect other people to sign a disclaimer saying that you're going to use the material however you see fit, and yet you will not, as the interviewer or as the producer, sign the same disclaimer that the other person can use the material however they see fit. You see if you were ethical, what would you do? You would treat the other person in exactly the same manner you would want them to treat you. So if you want to be treated as if everything's private, then you would never expect the other person to sign the agreement. But if you expect the other person to sign the agreement, then you would have to engage the fact that you might also need to agree to being used, your face or words being used in public. You'd agree to one or the other wouldn't you? Would you not? So that's what you need to do in the case.

Participant: He came and asked me during the break to sign this agreement and I just asked him a whole lot of questions as I just felt this demand coming from him even though he kept saying, "You don't have to. You don't have to," I felt this demand that he was and I said, "Look I can't, I need to think about this." And then he came to me at the end, and in the intervening time I'd had this, "Oh my God I'm going into fear. I went into fear last year because I didn't want to be on YouTube, and you're doing it again. I'll just sign the waiver." He came charging at me at the end so now I don't know what I have done.

Well you don't need to worry about what you've done; you just need to worry about why. Do you understand? Can I just say this to everybody? You don't need to worry about what you have done because you've already done it, you can't change it. So you don't need to worry about what you've done, you only need to worry about why. You only need to look at the emotional reasons inside of yourself that cause yourself to do what you did, that you might feel now is out of harmony with love of yourself, or whatever. So what was the emotional reason? That's all you need to look at. You don't need to punish yourself. You don't need to say, "I've done a terrible thing." You don't need to do any of those things.

Participant: So where did I get it wrong? I obviously got something wrong. [01:56:42.14]

Well what was the emotion that you felt in that moment? When he comes up to you and he's very demanding and very pushy and he's very insistent that he cannot interview you without... [01:56:52.20]

Participant: I didn't do an interview. It was just about being on camera. But like I said I got all confused because I didn't know; should I be facing my fear now? I felt his demand and I got all conflicted, and I'm still confused again. [01:57:17.08]

Well I can only tell you what my feelings are. My feelings are this. I'm perfectly happy to sign his waiver. I read his waiver; it seemed pretty fair enough to me. He wants to use any of the material forever at his own discretion, and I have no claim upon it. That's fine I don't want to have any claim upon it. That's fine. But I want him to sign the same agreement with me. That's my response. [01:57:43.18]

Participant: But I'm not even in a position of caring about using his stuff.

Well if you're not in a position, then signing the agreement's fine except for one thing, would he be willing to sign a similar agreement with you? It's not whether he does or has to; it's whether he's willing. [01:58:00.29]

Participant: And there is also the issue of his demand.

And the demand in him though is a part of his fear that he would not get a story that he was assigned to get.

Participant: Yeah, because I thought, "Why would he care?" It just felt like a disproportionate amount of demand.

That's because he's in a lot of fear about not getting his story. It makes more work when he's got to edit somebody out. He's concerned about a lot of different things. If he could just go and pan across the entire audience without having to blank out that face, blank out that face, blank out that face... there's a lot of work involved in that. He doesn't want to do that work so he's thinking about a lot of different things, which are all very selfishly motivated I agree, and it's up to you whether you pander to them or not. And when I say pander, whether you agree even to them or not. [01:58:53.25]

Now I'm perfectly happy to agree, he can use my face, my voice, whatever he wants as far as he wants. I put all of my stuff on YouTube as you know, all of these discussions on YouTube, so that people can actually listen to the discussions and benefit from them. And in fact my feelings are anybody who does not want to be filmed in a circumstance that we have involved then don't come to the presentation, or don't put up your hand and ask the question. Because if you don't put up your hand and ask a question, there might be a general shot, but there won't be any face on view. [01:59:28.14]

My feelings are if you can engage that process you'll benefit immensely from it. You'll deal with a lot of fear and you'll deal with grief, and you'll deal with your facts or your face being used in an unloving manner, and you'll deal with all of those things emotionally, which will be fantastic, because all of those are fears you can address. However, that doesn't change my requirement of him. My requirement of him now from an ethical perspective has to be his same requirement of me. Do you understand? [02:00:01.21]

Participant: How did you resolve that with him? Like how was...

Well it's not resolved yet. What happened was we said we cannot go ahead with an interview. He wanted to do an interview and I said, "I can't go ahead with an interview unless you agree to this." And in the end he said, "Well what happens if I don't agree to it?" I said, "Well you won't get your interview. It's quite simple. I've stated this to your producer, I have it in writing from your company that you're willing to do this, and on top of that it's the same expectation that you have of me. So how can I not be right? It's the same expectation you have of me." And as a result of that, although he was upset, he still went ahead with the interview because he was concerned about not getting the story you see. [02:00:53.26]

Now we still have yet to fully address the issue because the reality is the amount of distress and the worry that he had is undoubtedly going to cause him later down the track to go, " I might sue them because I haven't written it in writing myself that I've given them permission. I might decide to sue them," So our response to this is going to be myself and Mary cannot proceed any further with any interviews, or any other things with this company until we have in writing now from this particular company and all of the people involved who come and interview us, that we can use the material how we see fit as they originally agreed to in writing. And we won't be able to proceed aside from that. So that's the letter that we're writing to them at the moment, I started writing it this morning. [02:01:53.24]

And the reason why we're doing that is because it's an ethical issue and it's an issue based around love. When somebody expects of me what they will not deliver to me, then they are out of harmony with love. And because I am engaged with them, I have the responsibility to attempt to correct anything that's out of harmony with love. So I do. [02:02:26.10]

So what happens in the situations of where we perceive other people to have power over us, unfortunately we automatically do not require the same ethical behaviour from them as we require from ourselves. We're actually allowing that person to treat us unethically and if we loved ourselves, if we were moral, we would treat others and ourselves how God wants all of his children to be treated. So in other words we would treat other people not higher, not lower but equal to ourselves, and not with condescension. There's a difference between honour and worship, so we wouldn't worship them, but we would honour them. And when we worship somebody we allow them to treat us in a manner that we ourselves would not want to be treated, or that they themselves would not want to be treated either in a lot of cases. So I am perfectly happy to honour all of you, which I would like to do actually now at the conclusion of our talk.

12. Closing Words

Alright, so hopefully in this discussion you've got now a little bit more of a concept of what ethics are, and a little bit more of a concept of what morality is. And also a little bit of a concept that even if you feel that you're not connected to God, you can still determine what's loving, and a concept of how you can determine what God would view as morality through analysing the history of mankind. My suggestion is if you can marry these two principles of ethics and morality together and allow yourself to ponder about it, and think about it in your day to day life, what will happen is you'll firstly start to become very ethical. You'll start to treat others as you would like them to treat you, and you'll look at every area of your life where that is not happening. And that will help you become open to all of the unresolved emotions that cause us to decide to do unloving actions towards others. [02:05:58.07]

In addition, if we have this ability to intellectually analyse the history of mankind and determine the results of certain actions over a long period of time, the beauty of this analysis is that it enables us to see what the generalised pain of humanity tells us, what actions must be more in harmony with morality, and what actions must be less in harmony with morality. That then gives us all the ability, no matter what our development, to determine firstly how we can become more loving, and secondly how we can become more ethical and moral. So I hope from our discussion today that you're able to see those two aspects together and then able, over the coming few months, to try putting these things into practice in your day-to-day life. Because it will help you a lot to become a more loving individual and to notice unloving behaviour, and therefore notice what emotions must be driving the unloving behaviour that we have. So that's been the whole purpose of our discussion today so I hope you've enjoyed that. [02:07:21.29]

We'd like to just encourage you to continue, if you wish, to continue looking at the website in terms of information that is still there, and we'd like to also encourage you to just continue trying to get closer to God and closer to love, even though at times you feel sometimes frustrated with yourself, and sometimes upset and angry with yourself. Sometimes afraid about where it's all going to take you. We would just love to encourage you to continue to do that, because the happiness that comes from doing it in the long term will far out way this painful period that many of you are going through at this point in time, and we'd just like to encourage you to continue that process. [02:09:49.19]

Thanks guys. (Applause)

