- What I didn't expect,
I thought I was gonna get all this love,
people were gonna agree with me
and instead I just got
this unending torrent of hate online,
which well about.
And then one day I was at my barber,
my friend Jess,
and she called David over
and she took out the mirror
and she said,
"You better look at this."
And I had lost these
massive chunks of hair,
literally to the point where,
at one point it was about 40%,
if not more.
I was spraying on my hair,
painting it on.
That why I left the live video
that I know you've seen,
'cause we've done some
panels together about it,
was in the midst of it
when I was not only just spraying on hair,
but I was on this experimental medication
and I was broken out
and my head was oozing.
And I swear to you,
it's not exaggeration,
I was about to quit.
I was literally like an
hour away from quitting.
(upbeat music)
- Ladies and gentlemen, it is me,
Candace Owens,
the Founder of The Blexit Movement
and I am the thrilled that my friend,
Dave Rubin's book is finally out,
"Don't Burn This Book,"
which as you guys know
for me is extremely tempting
'cause when people tell me what not to do,
I really wanna do it.
(Dave laughs)
But instead I actually read this book,
I didn't burn it
and I'm super excited that I am the person
that gets to present this chapter,
which is Never Surrendering To The Mob,
which is pretty much the
story of my entire career.
So Dave, this is super
exciting for you, this project,
I know you worked so hard on it,
locked yourselves in many rooms,
let's jump right into it.
- Yeah, Candace before anything else,
I just have to say one thing,
which is when I was
figuring out the 10 people
to do these chapters with,
and I'm talking to my
associate producer and David
and my whole team,
we're all looking at number six
like Candace has taken six.
Never sure about Candace is taking six.
All the other ones we debated,
we move people around,
but it was like,
"No, no, we know what's
going on with number six."
- Yeah, and you know what?
I appreciate that 'cause I do think
I'm a big person
of never surrendering to the mob.
And I have to say
what's really unique about this
book is that it gives a lot
of the personal side to you,
which we don't really get
because you're usually the interviewer,
and you don't talk much
about your personal life.
And it was really unique
to hear this experience,
which I had never ever, ever known about.
And just the struggle
of what you went through
I think is really incredible.
And me and my husband were discussing it
a couple of days ago
when we first got the book
and I was going like,
"Did we ever know that Dave
"sort of went through this hardship?"
Which I don't know if I
should get the details out
'cause you want people to buy the book.
- Well, no, I'm gonna assume
that most of the diehards
bought the book already
so they know when I first sort of said,
"Hey lefties, something's not right here,
"like let's be nicer,
"let's be liberal again."
And I did what I didn't expect,
I thought I was gonna get all this love,
like people were gonna agree with me
and instead I just got
this unending torrent of hate online,
which you know well about.
And then one day I was at my barber,
my friend Jess,
and she called David over
and she took out the mirror
and she said,
"You better look at this."
And I had lost these
massive chunks of hair,
literally to the point where
at one point it was about 40%,
if not more.
I was spraying on my hair,
painting it on,
that why I left the live video
that I know you've seen
'cause we've done some
panels together about it,
was in the midst of it
when I was not only just spraying on hair,
but I was on this experimental medication
and I was broken out
and my head was oozing.
And I swear to you,
it's not exaggeration,
I was about to quit.
I was literally like an
hour away from quitting.
I could not take it
and I don't know
what got me to the other side,
something just, it just pushed me through.
Like everyone before me in my family
has had it a lot worse than me.
And was I gonna let
like some hair loss get rid of me
but I am proud to say it's all mine
and Candace as someone
that doesn't surrender to the mob,
I don't wanna say what happened,
but I might've gotten a haircut yesterday.
Just, I'm not saying I did,
I'm not saying I did
or I didn't,
I'm just saying my hair's a little shorter
than it was yesterday.
I don't want anyone snitching on me,
Garcetti or any of that kind of stuff.
but we've all been through
that sort of thing.
Like when you started coming out,
you did that great video
when you were red pill black way back when
coming out as a conservative
and did you expect just to get love
and then next thing
you get some love
but like the crazy hate?
- I would say the thing
that surprised me the most,
and it's something that
I never forgot about
actually Charlie Kirk, I guess,
or I've had more of a vision
that I was going to be very successful
and gain a lot of followers.
You kinda had that sort
of that same vision too. I
didn't see it in the beginning.
I was just sort of doing what felt right
and he sat me down
and he made me read an article
of things that can change in your life
when you gain a little bit of fame.
And I read it sort of, okay,this is good.
Plugged into the back of your mind,
but I don't know if this
is going to actually,
be applied into my life and ,
now my husband actually says to me, Oh,
he doesn't know what,
which Beatles said it, but he's,
apparently, they said,
fame doesn't change you.
It changes everybody around you.
Right. And I think that's just
such an interesting quote.
So one thing that I
experienced jumping into this
was I was the same canvas.
I've always been this canvas.
I've always been the outspoken Candice.
I've been a little different.
I've always been convicted whether I was,
convicted as a liberal,
thinking this is exactly who I want to be
and held my convictions.
I was always the same person.
So to watch people spin
me into a character chore,
and then I think the worst
part was losing family members.
That totally shocked me.
So when I was reading your
chapter and thinking about,
the shock and you speak about someone
who was literally at your wedding
or was invited to your wedding,
- Didn't respond to
the wedding invitation,
but yeah, was invited to my wedding
- went through the exact same thing.
I had family members
who didn't even respond
didn't even honor my a
wedding with a response.
because I was a conservative,
so that was somebody that you just,
you can't deal with anymore.
And I think that is sort of
one of the biggest shocks
I think of of knowing that you
can be the exact same person
and rather than discuss an idea with you,
you're just considered completely done.
You're completely barred
from your close families
and your friends.
And that's such a valid point
when you're giving your list
of things for people to just,
I love that.
The advice that you give,
in each chapter,
knowing that your friendships
are going to change,
your friendships changed a lot.
And I can't even imagine how much,
how much your friendships have changed.
Coming from the terms.
- Yeah, they're probably
changing as we speak.
But the other reason
that I wanted to have you
on to do this one is not just
that you've survived the mob.
Like when people think about the mob,
like the average person,
they don't expect to be the
number one trend on Twitter
and the Kanye thing and have
literally the Twitter moments.
I think he called you far writer
or writer or the rest of it.
But one of the reasons that I love you
not having anything to
do with our public thing
is that you and I,
when we hang out otherwise like
we challenge each other the entire time.
Like it's not, it's not fake.
Like we have argued about every
freaking thing known to man
and it's like we don't
hold it against each other.
And I wonder what do you
think that is psychologically
that some people,
when you disagree with them,
they want to mob you and what
is it about the other people
that don't want to do it?
Because that's the people that
we're really talking to here.
Like, what is it about us that,
yeah.
Do I think that progressives
are wrong about everything?
Am I worried about socialism
and big government?
Of course I am.
But I don't try to send
a mob to destroy them.
I want to expose their ideas.
- Right?
I think what it, what
is different about us
is that we genuinely like to
learn and we have a pursuit of,
we want to pursue knowledge.
and part of that takes a
tremendous amount of humility.
If you're actually interested
in the pursuit of knowledge,
then you have to be willing to accept
that you might be wrong.
Right? So when you, and I love
getting into a room with you
because sometimes I'm just
saying stuff to say stuff.
I don't even necessarily believe it,
but I'm like, I heard this idea
and I want to know what
you think about it.
I'm thinking of a time
where you and I did an event
at some college and I was pushing you on.
It was something to do with gay marriage.
And then you hit me back with something
that like you went up to me and were like,
Oh, I said,
I read somebody who said that
society begins to fall apart
at the very moment that
gay people get rights.
Right?
Oh, homophobe about Jerry even say that.
I didn't even necessarily believe it.
I heard it and I wanted to introduce it
and to debate it and to hear what you said
and then you hit me back and you said,
well then you said,
Oh well then you could
make that same argument
and say that actually it really starts
when women get rights.
Right?
And I said that's actually a
brilliant rebuttal to that.
So I'm trying to learn
and build and part of that
is being able to say something, right?
To actually say something and get feedback
and you're just one of those
people that you like to learn.
We like to grow, we like to build.
We can be wrong.
It's okay to be wrong.
And a lot of people don't
possessed that humility.
- So it's interesting cause
one of the things for you,
is you've dealt with like
the highest level versions
of this, like every member
of the media going after you.
But not just going after you
in many ways going after you
because of your race.
Yes, of course it is what you say.
But if you were saying the
same things as a white woman,
and this is just the perversion
of identity politics,
it's like they would just say
you're a racist and that's it.
But then because you flip
everything on their head,
they feel that this,
it's in many ways they're going after you
purely because of your race.
It's, it's really bizarre.
It's like almost hard to explain.
- Yeah.
I almost present a conundrum
from them because they,
sort of been able to sort
of bolster themselves
on their high horses on this
idea that they're so accepting.
Right?
And then everybody else,
and you talk about this
in your book as a Nazi
and a racist and the sexist,
and then you get someone
who's a black female
agreeing with the alleged Nazis.
and the everybody is Hitler,
right?
And so they don't know what
to do with me because they,
what they do is because
it is essentially saying
that we go out
because we need to defend
people like Candice,
people that look like
Candice seem to be defended.
And when someone that looks
like me says no thank you,
it renders, I'm immediately powerless.
Right? They, they don't
know what to do with it.
And it's a fun to me personally,
it's a fun space to be in because,
I almost demand that they,
think and that they
actually debate with ideas
and they're incapable of doing that
because they don't have any ideas.
They just have anger and rage.
- It's funny 'cause I remember
you got married in August
and I was,
I do my off the grid August,
and the whole month you got married,
was it the 31st you actually got married
on the last day of August?
- Yeah.
- Yeah And I remember the
whole month I was like,
Oh, I'm gonna get,
I'm gonna be off the grid the whole month,
and then I'm gonna show up
at the Candice's wedding,
and there's gonna be all
like the public people there.
And I know somebody's gonna screw me over
and tell me something about the news.
But anyway, that, which
didn't happen by the way,
although somebody tried
to, I won't mention,
I won't throw them under the bus publicly,
but somebody tried to tell me something.
But, when we got to the wedding,
David and I took a picture with you
and I posted it on Twitter or something.
And then I saw all these people,
Oh, it's the outright wedding
and there's the homophobe and
the self hating black woman
and blah, blah, blah. And
it was one of those things
where not only was the wedding,
like one of the most fun
weddings I had ever been to,
but the people that you had,
there were exactly what America is.
There were evangelical Christians,
there were gay people, straight people,
there were Orthodox Jews.
There were every mix and color.
Your husband happens to be white.
So half the party was white
half the party and no,
the idea that anyone would've
cared at any level I had,
honestly, one of the most
interesting conversations
I've ever had in my life was
that night for about an hour.
I was extremely drunk.
I don't think he was, but with the priest,
I had such a great
conversation with the priest
and it was like, man, all of these haters
that would love to send the
mob on any of us and ,you guys,
I'm sure had to have
some extra security there
and the rest of it it's like,
they just have nothing to do with anything
remotely close to the truth.
- Yeah. I briefly touched on my wedding.
I mean, just a couple
of sentences in my book
and I talk about that because
it did represent something
really, it really does disrupt everything
that left breaches and everything
that the mainstream media narrative is
when people just come
together and celebrate love.
Right?
They can't stand that because
it shouldn't work out.
I'm a girl from a poor background.
My family is impoverished.
George comes from more wealth.
His family's more privileged.
I'm black.
He's white.
I'm a woman. He's a male and
none of this should work.
We've got gay people at our wedding.
I got my lesbian cousins at the wedding,
right?
None of this should work,
that it should have just
been an instant war. Right?
Oh, are you gay?
Are you straight?
Are you tall?
Are you short?
and that's not the way the
real society actually works.
And, one of the things
that I always say is,
gosh, this world would be so much better
if everybody could just log off.
Right?
And you talk about that in your book,
why you make the decision to
sometimes occasionally log off
and participate in real life.
Because we actually do get along.
And that is something that I believe truly
that the left hates is us getting along.
- Yeah.
What's your policy on the apology?
Because one of the things
that I try to put in the book
is never apologize with
the only caveat being
if you genuinely do something wrong.
We've all apologized in real life.
I apologize to David all the time.
I mean,
we all have apologized
when it, when it's right,
but I think one of the
mistakes people make
is they apologize when
they're not sorry actually,
or when they didn't do anything wrong
because they think that buys the room.
They think it'll get, get them some cred.
But really that never does.
And I've seen you go
after people on Twitter
or get into something or
someone goes after you.
And then every now and again
I've seen you try to take the upper,
not the upper hand, the higher road,
but what's your policy
generally related to apologizing
when it's relative to the public life?
- Yeah.
I pretty much never
apologize in my public life.
What you realize very quickly
is when they want to take you down,
they will interpret
everything to be wrong.
And here's a perfect example of that.
When they took out of context,
my comments when I was talking about
actually talking about nationalism,
right?
And they wanted me to apologize for that.
The reason why I didn't apologize,
just because there was not a single person
asking you to apologize.
I thought that I was
trying to defend Hitler.
It was disingenuous.
Demanding the apology in and
of itself was disingenuous.
If any person watched
the entirety of the clip.
And you said, hey, Candice, I'm Jewish.
I saw the clip and ,
just really came across on fewer.
Dennis Prager picked up the phone.
It would have been entirely
different circumstance.
But instead, I had you and
Dennis Prager defending me
and then Prager university defending me.
and because they knew that...
- [Dave] Dennis is one of your mentors,
I mean, forget about me.
Yeah.
- It worked pretty good for you.
And, they knew it was foolishness.
And so if, what I did say was
I could have worded it better,
right?
Not sleeping.
We came in on an overnight
flight into London.
Could I have worded it
better If I had known
that four months later,
Busby was going to go
back and find the video
and strip it of the question
and just have the sentences play?
Absolutely.
But was I sorry for what I said?
Absolutely not.
There was nothing to apologize for.
I was not defending Hitler.
And the second you give them
just a little bit of rope,
they will hang you with it.
The second they find out
that you're vulnerable
and care about your P-R and
they're gonna get you on this.
You gotta play that game forever.
So I don't play it with them.
And if I genuinely said something
and then said to myself,
"wow, that came across really wrong"
It was the same with the me too movement.
I was the first one who said,
I don't support this at all.
And everyone demanded an apology.
This means you support
rape left and right.
Hammered me.
I didn't back down 'cause
I knew what I meant.
If you're gonna interpret that to mean
that you think I want women to get raped,
you're being disingenuous, right?
I am a woman, you know I
don't want women to get raped.
So I think establishing really
the terms of the apology,
are they actually seeking an apology?
Are they seeking to humiliate you?
And the answer is always
they're seeking to humiliate you
when it comes to the left,
- Yeah.
What would you say to the people,
this is what I was
trying to get the chapter
to really feel at the end.
I want it to give not the public people
that have chosen to get into this game,
like for all the headaches
that it comes with
and all the great things too, right?
Like we have great lives.
It's good we're doing what
we're supposed to be doing.
But for the people that are,
I hate to phrase regular people,
but for people that
don't choose this game.
But that one day it will
come for them because
that's what I'm trying to show people
is it will come for you one day.
Because if you have it,
any flicker of an original thought,
one day, someone will
use that against you.
Do you have any advice for
like the average person
that isn't going to be out there
defending themselves on Twitter,
but just like the
tactics that they can use
in their own life to get some sort of,
not just defense,
but to actually go on the
offensive with this as well?
- Honestly,
I think it's important
to stand up for yourself
even if you don't have a platform
where you don't think
that you have a big voice.
I think it matters every single time.
I always stood up for
myself when I disagreed
with things that my
professor said in college.
I would say it was ridiculous.
When I was forced to take
a feminism 101 course,
I stood up for myself.
Because what you really find
with the left is that it is,
the emperor has no clothes on, right?
So, well, my teacher wanted
to give me a bad grade
because she disagreed with me
and I was willing to take
it all the way to the head
and have her say why she
disagree with the fact that
I didn't hate men or why
she wanted me to say after.
Right., I am a feminist on the board
because I disagreed with what
she was trying to teach me.
She doesn't want to do that, right?
Because, and that's really what it is.
If they're not in a big group of people,
they really have no clothes on.
and I've learned that
if it's not Antifa with
60 thugs they really have,
the emperor has no clothes on.
So stand up for yourself
every single time.
And I'm waiting for the corporation
when they hit them with these
bogus discriminatory law
discriminatory lawsuits to
say, I'm not apologizing.
This is ridiculous.
And I'm not going to
pay some exorbitant fee
to some black groups when it looks like
I'm dissociating myself from racism,
we need to all start
standing up for ourselves.
If you're not a racist,
you're not a sexist,
don't apologize for being one.
- Yeah.
The other version of
that is with the gays.
Whenever somebody makes some sort of
loosely anti-gay remark or joke,
which is actually not anti gay,
what do you gotta do?
You gotta write a check to glad
and then you're good to go.
Somehow you can pay your way out of it.
How bizarre.
So what, wait one more thing for you,
'cause it really tied
this whole thing together.
I wanted to mention this up top,
but right now you are going
through your own version
of standing up to the mob.
You sent out a tweet.
Do you want to paraphrase the tweet
or maybe you know it by
heart already at this point.
'Cause you're suspended from Twitter
right now as we're taping it.
- Yeah.
I said to the people in Michigan,
open your businesses,
go to work.
Governor Whitner is out of line
and the police officers think,
she's not to, they're not going
to arrest 10 million people
for going to work.
- So...
- and, sentence her
- right.
So, okay,
so let's put aside the specifics,
because actually you're a private,
even though you're a public person,
you're a private citizen,
you're not an agent of the government.
You can say what you want.
But Twitter basically took down your tweet
and now they have suspended you.
So you haven't tweeted in like five days.
You must be freaking out at the moment.
or you're very,
you're probably very happy actually,
but you're not backing down
because all you have to
do to get back on Twitter,
right, is just what,
what do you technically
have to do at this point?
- You have to go through
this process of saying
that you were wrong and you're
going to delete the tweet.
But I wasn't wrong.
I'm allowed to say that
even if I wanted to
say go out and protest,
that's a constitutional rights.
Okay?
So if a peaceful protest
as in going to work,
is considered something
that you're not allowed to say on Twitter,
we need to be worried.
because we're very
quickly trending towards
what you see in a communist society
where you can not partake the government.
I critiqued a politician.
I critiqued governor Whitmer.
And I encouraged the people
to peacefully protest
in their own ways.
And that is something
that Facebook and Twitter
are saying, it's not okay anymore
because it's a risk to public safety.
That's the language you see in socialist
and communist societies.
Disagreeing with the government
is a risk to public safety.
And it's not, it's absolutely not a risk
to public safety.
So, I'm not backing down.
I filed an appeal and I look forward
to hearing back from them
- How,
I mean, so as someone that
probably more than anyone else
that I know doesn't surrender to the mob.
I mean, how long will you
allow yourself to be in limbo?
Because I know you want to
get your thoughts out there
and everything else.
I mean, what if they just
don't respond to you?
Which actually that would be the,
that would be their move right now.
Right?
Like, just, let's just ignore her,
and then she'll Peter out,
she'll disappear.
That's what they're hoping.
- Then I'll lawyer up.
I'm not taking any prisoners this year
and I've been very serious
about going off of the tech companies.
I had a great phone call
with actually a lawyer,
two days ago talking about this and saying
that I think we need to
get serious about this.
We need to put together
a legal defense fund.
This thing is getting crazier and crazier.
and they're widening the down people
that they're trying to sensor.
And , I've had issues with
Facebook this week as well.
Marking things as fake news.
Fake news assessments are being
done by former CNN editors,
for Facebook.
Leadstories.com is run
by former CNN editors of 20 to 26 years.
They're considered unbiased fact checkers.
and all of this foolishness,
the end of the day,
these take up companies
have largely become utilities.
and, and for people like me,
I rely on the ability to get my voice out,
and is my life, and is my career.
If you gonna sensor me,
because I said to people to go to work,
I mean, what are we going to start
like finding parents for
telling your children
to make their bed?
I mean, that's called being
irresponsible citizen, right?
I mean this is like crazy
stuff and in the meanwhile
you've got people that are doing haircuts
that's being put in prison.
The prisoners are being released.
I'm in Twitter jail.
People can issue threats
on Twitter and say,
like that former Sarah Jones,
New York times person "canceled
white people kill white"
All of that's good.
Candice Owens go to work, bad.
So it's just not,
- I keep telling people,
I don't know if you
saw the movie Idiocracy
but I keep telling people
we're about a week away from Whitmer
or Gavin Newsome here telling people
to water the crops with Gatorade.
Like that's how stupid
the whole thing is become.
It really is.
Well, listen, Candice,
you truly like you are the
living example of this chapter.
You've done it.
I know you will never surrender to them
and I look forward to seeing
you on Twitter one day,
but if not, we'll do it in
real life. How about that?
- That sounds good.
We can be people in real life.
Guys, go out and get the book
if you don't have it yet,
and don't be like me and
be tempted to burn it
just because he told you not to.
That would be bad.
- If you're looking for more honest
and thoughtful
conversations about politics
instead of nonstop yelling,
check out our politics playlist
and if you want to watch full interviews
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