hello
and welcome back to pass the torque i'm
your host katy cawdrey
this week we have a very special guest
for you nasa administrator jim
bridenstine
he's here to talk to you about all
things artemis let's go ahead and jump
in with the first question
what does a nasa administrator do so the
nasa administrator
on any given day is working with
international partners working with our
congressional supporters
in both the house and the senate working
with the national space council
and the office of management and budget
so
on a day-to-day basis i spend most my
time thinking about
how are we going to get the resources
necessary to achieve the objectives that
we've been given to achieve
and of course there's all kinds of other
decisions and meetings that have to take
place day in and day out
um but it's interesting in the pandemic
um
the amount of outreach that i'm able to
do has gone up significantly just
because i don't have to have
face-to-face meetings i'm not traveling
to the various nasa centers i'm not
traveling internationally
um instead all of the meetings are
happening uh
just like this just teleconferences
um and so so the the the amount of
engagement and outreach i've been able
to do has gone up significantly even
though we're in the midst of the
pandemic
um but at the same time i would really
like to be able to go visit people face
to face
um as well um obviously the big things
that we just recently accomplished
launching american astronauts again
on american rockets from american soil
launching the the mars perseverance
rover
bringing our astronauts bob and doug
back home
these are things that have required me
to travel
recently um so those are just some of
the things that
that that i do day in and day out
can you tell us about artemis and what
the different stages are
yeah so the artemis program is america's
moving forward to the moon i don't like
to use the word
return to the moon we're going forward
to the moon because under the artemis
program we're going to stay
as much as we love apollo the problem
with apollo is that it ended the artemis
program
is a sustainable return to the moon
we're going to go with commercial
partners we're going to go with
international partners
we're going to learn how to live and
work on another world for long periods
of time
and we're going to take all of that
knowledge we're going to use the
resources of that world in this case the
moon
and then ultimately we're going to take
all of that knowledge ultimately to put
humans on mars that's
that's the objective um when we think
about the artemis program
uh we need a number of different
elements of it we need a really big
booster that can get our astronauts
all the way to the moon that's the sls
rocket
we need a capsule the orion crew capsule
that will take our astronauts
to what's called the gateway in orbit
around the moon and then from the
gateway
which is think of it as a space station
that's in orbit around the moon
for 15 years like a reusable command and
service module if you will
from the apollo era although this will
be a 15-year
capability um and then we need landers
that can go back and forth
from the gateway to the surface of the
moon over and over again reuse
reusably and so ultimately if we can
achieve
each one of those elements we're going
to have a sustainable return to the moon
uh the key in all of this is driving
down costs
and increasing access for this for the
sustainable return
or the sustainable going forward to the
moon um
and and that's uh that's what the
artemis program is all about
what is the rationale for going to the
moon again
so there's a lot of reasons to go
forward to the moon um
just purely on the science side if you
look at it from a heliophysics
perspective
um you know the the sun has been
you know sending subatomic charged
particles into space for billions of
years
um and when it comes to the earth very
few of those particles most of the
particles go around the earth because of
the magnetosphere
around the earth when those particles do
come in contact with the earth we have a
very active
geology a very active hydrosphere a very
active atmosphere
and so none of those particles are today
where they would have been billions of
years ago
the moon does not have an active geology
it doesn't have an active hydrosphere
it doesn't have an active atmosphere and
so anything that impacted the moon
billions of years ago
is today right where it was billions of
years ago and that includes asteroid
impacts
but it also includes subatomic charged
particles
ions you know from the sun which means
we can get a lot of data and information
it's a repository of the early sun
it's a repository of data and
information of the early solar system
so we think about the moon as a place to
go and get science
of our solar system the sun we think of
the moon as a place to go
get astrophysics data from the far side
of the moon
we we can actually see not just back uh
to the first light
in the universe after the big bang but
from the far side of the moon it's so
quiet from an electromagnetic spectrum
perspective
that we can see in fact all the way back
to what we call the dark ages
before cosmic dawn there there was a
period of time after the big bang before
first light appeared
we're going to be able to see that from
the far side of the moon that we could
never see
any other any other place so from a
heliophysics perspective from an
astrophysics perspective
um these are these are capabilities that
i think are important
for our agency to to go and get it's
also important to note that because
we're sending humans to the moon
we're going to have a communication
architecture at the moon that makes
these astrophysics missions
even more valuable because you know
there's a mission that i like to talk
about
called dapper and and the idea is you're
going to see the dark ages after the big
bang before the first light
that particular mission called dapper
would it would normally be a 500 million
dollar mission
but because we're already going to have
a communication architecture at the moon
we can significantly reduce the payload
we can significantly reduce the power
requirements we don't have to have a
large aperture antenna
and all of a sudden the mission goes
from 500 million dollars down to 90
million dollars
so it's about heliophysics it's about
astrophysics it's about human
exploration the moon also very i mean we
know
you've heard me talk a lot about the
fact that there's hundreds of millions
of tons
of water ice on the south pole of the
moon water ice
is life support it's it's air to breathe
it's water to drink
and it's also hydrogen which is which is
rocket fuel and it's available in
hundreds of millions of tons on the moon
um so when we think about you know why
why is it important to go to the moon
um there's so much science and
capability
that that we can the discoveries that we
can make it's also
it's also a way of doing earth science
you know a lot of nasa scientists would
tell you and and they're right
that the moon was at one time a part of
the earth
and so and so we can actually learn a
lot about the early earth
by going to the moon what are the
biggest challenges of going forward to
the moon
so you know there's there's no shortage
of challenges when you talk about going
to the moon
um sustaining life off the planet is
difficult
uh we're going this time in a way that
we've never gone before sustainably we
want to be able to live and work on
another world for long periods of time
so creating the ability to use the
resources of the moon to live and work
is a big challenge and that's going to
require a lot of power
it's going to require habitation
capability it's going to have we're
going to have to better understand
human physiology a lot of radiation
there in deep space
when you get onto the surface of the
moon you actually cut the radiation in
half just by definition
when you're in space you're getting
radiation from all sides but when you're
on the surface of another planetary body
you're getting radiation only from you
know up
so when we think about um the challenges
of going to the moon
uh certainly uh space flight in general
is difficult
surviving off the planet for long
periods of time is difficult
doing it on another world is another
order of magnitude
but but we're going to need to be able
to protect the human physiology
we're going to need large amounts of
power and of course we're going to need
habitation capabilities
and if we can master all of these things
we're going to be in good shape
what does it mean to be the artemis
generation so i'm the first nasa
administrator in history
that was not alive when we had people
living and working on the moon
my whole generation has missed out on
that amazing achievement
now i i remember watching in elementary
school our teachers bringing in the tvs
and and having us watch neil armstrong
and buzz aldrin walk on the moon
but the last moon mission was in 1972
and i was born in 1975
so i never got to see any of this real
time we we have
we have failed my generation
and what we have to do is we have to
make sure that we don't fail another
generation
we need to make sure that from this
point forward you know we've had
astronauts living and working on the
international space station now for 20
years in a row the question is
that that demonstrates an amazing amount
of success a sustainable program
that can last into the future that we
can build upon we can we can learn
and iterate iterate experiments
technology
development capabilities and science
the question is can we can we create
that kind of success
for sustainability at the moon i think
the answer is absolutely yes we can
we've got the budget requests now to
achieve it we've got bipartisan support
in the house and the senate
and for the first time since 1972 right
now
for the first time since 1972 we have a
human landing system
funded to go to the moon and we have
three human landers
that are under development that hasn't
happened since 1972 so
amazing progress we're very excited
about it but this is the artemis
generation
the other thing that's unique about the
artemis generation
is if we go back to the apollo
generation as much as we love
apollo in those days all of our
all of our astronauts came from fighter
pilot backgrounds or test pilot
backgrounds
and in those days there were zero
opportunities
for women and so under the artemis
program artemis in greek mythology is
the twin
sister to apollo she was the goddess of
the moon
and so this time when we go to the moon
we go with all of america we go with the
very diverse
highly qualified astronaut core that
includes women and we go
under the name of apollo's twin sister
her name is artemis
and this time when we go we're gonna
stay
in what ways do you think servicing
assembly and manufacturing play into the
sustainable model of space exploration
so when we think about the servicing
of satellites in space even robotic
repair of satellites in space
this could have a transformational
impact for for
um a lot of the challenges that we have
number one it's extremely expensive to
launch a satellite
um and and and if every time you know if
you launch a 500 million dollar
satellite to geostationary orbit
and it comes to the end of its useful
life basically
the process is to supersync it you send
it into deeper space
and you just get it out of the way but
it never comes down
so you've got a 500 million dollar asset
asset floating around in space
that is that is now basically space junk
well if you could re-service that same
satellite
um and in fact keep it alive for another
10 years or
20 years number one it saves a lot of
money
and number two it doesn't become junk
it doesn't become debris so you know i
just gave an example of a 500 million
dollar satellite in geostationary orbit
but you can apply that of course to low
earth orbit which is what osam one is
all about
basically servicing a landsat satellite
now in in low earth orbit we've got
these constellations that are being
developed right now that are
thousands of satellites big and that's
going to result
whether we like to admit it or not it
will result in lots of space debris
a lot of those satellites are not going
to work depending on their altitude
they could be they could be in orbit for
years
or even decades depending on what
altitude those satellites
happen to be living at so it's important
for
us to say number one how do we save the
resources of the american taxpayer
how do we save the of resources of
people who are providing
um internet broadband from space
historically that's been done in
geostationary but now that's moving down
into low earth orbit
how do we how do we mitigate um space
debris how do we prevent these
satellites from becoming
space junk that can result in collisions
and of course
collisions result in breakups which
result in more collisions
so this is a big part of space
sustainability
but it's also a a big part of
driving down the cost so that ultimately
we can get more benefit from space
and you know that right now you know
it's the us government that's pushing
forward on this
but eventually we want to see
a number of companies that are taking
the technologies developed
at the goddard space flight center under
the osam program
take those technologies license them and
create fleets
of robotic repair capabilities that can
all be launched into space
uh to preserve satellites for the
duration um so i think it's it's
meaningful
for uh just the the economics uh in the
long term but it's also meaningful to
prevent debris
what was the significance of the first
american launch of humans from american
soil
since shuttle how did you feel that day
you know i remember back in 2011 when
the last
shuttle flight flew and i remember
thinking that we're going to be flying
again here
in a year or two and time just kept
going on
and the budgets weren't materializing to
achieve
a commercial crew successfully and
things got dragged out
and here we were nine years later
without a human space flight capability
so what this really does for us is it
opens up opportunities from an
international perspective
nations around the world want to partner
with the united states of america
nations that are not part of the
international space station program
want to join in our effort whereas
before they were looking at other
countries and wanting to join the
efforts of other countries
so this really puts us back in a
position of leading again
it also gives us more access with more
people to the international space
station
so the amount of time spent on science
and technology
development capabilities all of that all
of that crew time
it it's it's going up you know you know
three-fold or four-fold
and so all of that is beneficial um to
to ultimately
um achieving longer duration stays in
space and ultimately going
to mars so um so having that capability
is critically important i want to be
clear
um that's just one half of the
commercial crew program
boeing is the other half of the
commercial crew program we need in
america's space program we need
dissimilar redundancy we need the
ability
to have two providers so if one has a
setback the other one can continue to go
forward
we don't want to go a day in this
country where we don't have access to
space with humans
which is why we need dissimilar
redundancy where the
where the providers are not using the
same supply chains
um and in fact uh very very different
ways of of getting to to low earth orbit
and getting to the international space
station
so it has been successful uh we're
excited about where we are we've got a
lot of work to do
but ultimately we we have the ability to
to have
dual redundancy with two providers what
are your thoughts on
nasa's role in the world and
relationship with international partners
i really believe nasa as an agency is an
amazing tool of diplomacy
and it opens channels of communications
and relationships that otherwise would
not exist
we think about the science mission
directorate we have
over 700 active agreements with nations
all around the world within the science
mission directorate
we think about the international space
station uh we have
15 nations that have been operating the
international space station now for
over 20 years we have um
we've had astronauts from 19 different
countries
so and and now you know when we go to
the moon under the artemis program
you know we had a forum before the
pandemic we had a forum at the
international astronautical congress
and um i invited heads of agencies
from around the world to come and and
and share with us
you know if they'd like to be a part of
the artemis program we had 26
nations come some nations didn't even
have a space agency
but they still sent representatives to
the meeting because they want to have a
space agency
um we're seeing countries like australia
and the united arab emirates and
luxembourg um
that are they're showing up and saying
hey we we not only want to be part of
the artemis program
we we want to be we we want to be a
specific
relevant factor in the success of having
humanity move
off the planet to the moon and
eventually on to mars
so i think it's it's really uniting and
it's not
it's not just uniting the nations which
i think is cool
um you know we get bipartisan support
republicans love what nasa is doing
democrats love what nasa is doing
um and and so you know we look at
some of the challenges in the nation
right now um nasa is this bright shiny
object that says hey when we work
together we can
we can achieve amazing things and we've
got that strong bipartisan support right
now
what has been your favorite experience
since you became the nasa administrator
what are you most looking forward to you
know my favorite experience
is probably uh it's it's got to be
launching american astronauts
it was just an amazing opportunity we
had members of congress and senators
we had half the cabinet there the
president the vice president
the whole world watched it it kind of
it united us for a moment in time where
people could see
um america do something stunning in the
midst of some
very challenging times um so
that that i think has got to be the
highlight of my time at nasa for sure
um but there's a lot more to come we
look at the future um
there's so much more to do we're
building the program to go to the moon
and then on to mars
and not only building look in the past
we've had a lot of rhetoric about going
to the moon and on to mars
since 1972 nobody has funded it like now
we have
the funding um and so we're it's very
real
it's not it's not just smoke and mirrors
it's very real
um it's been it's taken a lot of work um
but but if this is going to be a
sustainable program
and you know i don't i don't know you
know
let's say 10 years from now 15 years
from now if the artemis program is still
moving forward
um and my daughter um who's now 12 years
old if she sees herself as having an
opportunity to go to the moon
then we will then we will have achieved
success
have you always been interested in space
and science what path did you take to
get to where you are today
so you can see based on the pictures
behind me that i was always
interested in aviation i grew up wanting
to be a pilot from
my earliest memories i wanted to be a
pilot um
you know when i was summer camps i would
do you know wind tunnel camps and
uh you know those kind of things uh and
that's that's really where my heart has
been my whole life
when i got to congress as a member of
the u.s house of representatives
i was on the armed services committee
subcommittee on strategic forces which
deals with all of our national security
space capabilities
i was also on the science committee
subcommittee on the environment which
oversees noaa
and and 40 of noah's budget is is
space-based investment
whether it's understanding climate or
understanding weather
and then when we when we think about the
space subcommittee i was on the space
subcommittee as well which oversees nasa
so it seems like no matter what i was
doing dealing with in the house
i was always dealing with space issues
and at one point i got frustrated and i
put together a very comprehensive space
reform bill
we called it the american space
renaissance act and the goal was
how does the united states of america
remain preeminent in space exploration
and put us in a position to lead the
world
i don't know i don't know really exactly
how my name
was given to the administration i've
i've heard a number of different
directions that it might have come from
but when asked if
if i would be interested in that i
immediately said
yes not believing that this opportunity
would ever arise but
i'll tell you i think i have the best
job on the planet
and i am grateful every day for
this amazing opportunity and
the reason it's so amazing is because
nasa is just filled
with just such talented people
that are doing such amazing work and and
you know
when a new a new discovery is made for
example discovering
um that there's the methane cycles on
mars match the seasons of mars which of
course
increases the probability of finding
life on another world
and being at the having a front row seat
to those kind of discoveries
um is just is just amazing when a 17
year old
intern discovers a planet orbiting and i
think this happened at goddard
discovers a planet orbiting a binary
star system
you know 1300 light years from earth
um those are the kind of things that um
you know you just wake up in the morning
you're like how do i have this amazing
opportunity i've just been so blessed
what do you do for fun outside of nasa
so i've got
a 14 year old boy 12 year old girl and
an 8 year old boy
so i spend the preponderance of my time
outside of nasa
with them um generally doing the things
that they do
you know my my girl plays piano and
she's a swimmer
my two boys are involved in lots of
sports
neither one of them have wanted to take
a piano but uh i can't i can't control
that
um but i'll tell you they um they they
take up the preponderance of my time so
so being at home with my wife and kids
is uh
is probably the thing that i spend the
most time doing
when i'm not working thanks so much
administrator bridenstine
and thank you for tuning in to another
episode of pass the torque
don't forget to check back here next
week for another brand new episode
see you then
so you can see behind me here you've got
an f-18 on the wall
um and then this is an e2 hawkeye so
these are the planes that i flew in the
navy
but a lot of people don't really know
what an e2 hawkeye is all about so this
is a big radar
on top um and it's it's used for
detecting and tracking
um you know the enemy uh whether they're
on the ocean
or in the sky it's a this is a naval
aircraft so it takes off and lands on
aircraft carriers um and and we do
command and control of a theater of
battle
um so you know when when we go into
war our troops are in contact with the
enemy and and we're talking to them on
the ground and making sure that they
have
the resources they need the goal is to
get the right bomb on the right target
at the right time
um so that our troops can continue to to
move forward and succeed be successful
in their mission
so it's a massive coordination effort
that happens in this airplane
um i had the opportunity to fly in
afghanistan back in 2002
and then in iraq in 2003 um
and and being a part of those missions
was something that was
a really big deal in my life i had uh i
had the opportunity to transition from
the e2 hawkeye to the f-18 hornet which
is behind me
um and i i flew at the naval strike and
air warfare center
which is where that picture came from uh
and um
and and there i i i did red air for
i was a bad guy i simulated enemy enemy
tactics
and i was a target so i got shot down i
got shot down bravely
very frequently but my job was my job
was to be a target for the top gun
instructors
that were transitioning from from flying
f-18s to f-16s and so
i had a great experience doing that so
the navy was a big part of my life
and now nasa is a big part of my life
