won the real issues in america is in
infrastructure issue and that's our
educational infrastructure what we can
do better educational infrastructure
what are we gonna do about
although our public schools right now
have the highest graduation history
there up
the United States the highest
literacy rate upon graduation in the
history the United States
the highest the going on to college rate
in the history United States
almost bumped up against by a just after
world war two with the GI Bill
have distorted things because everybody
go to college for free but
still you know they're doing well and
yet
as we talked about last week you know
where with the summer the brown the
board stuff i mean there are there are
still schools that are not doing well
that are failing and very often there
seems to be
a component of a race component
associated with that
so what do we do about that
neile close key is on the line this is
the associate director at the Center for
Educational freedom
at the former Charles Koch Institute now
known as the cato institute
author up Fed's in the classroom how big
government corrupts
cripples and compromises American
education the website
kato .org a meal credo and
I'm well INR I I read your piece in
and it seems it tell me if I'm wrong it
seems like you don't think that the
businesssave the government you said you
know even George Washington was in favor
those
I'm not sure if you know about Thomas
Jefferson University Virginia but
um the and I'm not sure also delayed
production to get into a
a debate about 17 ninety
7 or 1806 but
I it seems to me that you think that we
should not have
government schools the way that the
school's out party the Commons that we
shouldn't be collectively pain for the
education for children to have it right
grew on me when I wrote for special
regards to Brown v Board is that it's
very clear the right now we have a
system where
lots of people have school choice to be
generally wealthy people who choose a
school by being able to buy an expert so
fast
what I said is work we need to fund
education different way we need to
attach money to students
and then give their parents and real
power
to go to school because they have the
money trap strips much
sent to a specific school and they can
choose a school rather than we say to
people especially low-income people
sorry if you want to get to a good
school you have to be other buy a house
in a good districts and and see you
talking about you sir
that's talking about yours here well I
can be vouchers a IR my preference is
that we have donation
tax credits were you donate to
scholarship growing organization
and then they give scholarships reason
that's preferable as you can choose
whether or not you want to donate to
choose
for you want to donate two and then
you're not being compelled masterly to
send some
a child to school you may not like long
ago and far away I went to public school
and it was a block away from my house
and my elementary school and
it was a great school I got a great
education there was
you know this was in the nineteen
fifties there was no debate about
G he should have a choice there was a
Catholic school it was about a
quarter-mile away I could have gone
through
had i been Catholic but the Catholic
school pretty much the only people want
there were catholics it wasn't like
people are trying to flee the public
schools
arm what we're seeing now is the six PLO
Jinnah private for-profit schools
and it seems typically that one
advocates a quote school choice and put
like yourself
come on programs like this or others
what you're really talking about is
somebody ought to be able to make a buck
of Education
and that doesn't seem to me like a
reasonable thing I it seems to me that
education should be part
love our public comments and in your
explicitly saying it's not that that our
government
it's not me he said education's not
mentioned in the Constitution
I mean which brings up Alexander
Hamilton's objection even having a
a bill of rights attached to the
Constitution he
he felt that people might think these
are the only things that we
that we the honor when in fact you know
the the new
they've beginning the first and and the
last
paragraphs Article one Section eight er
incredibly all inclusive as is the
preamble
um I don't get it I just don't get why
what instead of saying our public
schools
in some cases particularly in those
neighborhoods where they're paid for
with property taxes
and there's such poverty that the school
suck cuz I got no money
why incentive instead of saying
therefore we should give people about
your and let some guy coming brought a
private school make a buck off this
why don't we simply fund at the schools
we have appropriately when we come up
with better funny message mechanism for
them
you know it's interesting that you
mention the Catholic schools and
particularly when we combine this with
the brown reports
anniversary which is that it's very
clear that public schools government
schools didn't serve huge
segments of the population clearly they
didn't serve
certainly not equally african-americans
for a long time after
after they were allowed even to use a
public schools and Catholics
established a huge cover story system
because the public schools were
defective product institutions
well really wanna so I'm if you wanna go
back really wanna sister horseman
Verde everybody you connect money the
kids and let them choose schools
Matt say you really have to use the
system that
hasn't treated equally equally through
most of its history
wealthy I will give you that Horace Mann
the eighteen nineties
eighteen eighties pitched public schools
to the good people of Massachusetts as
a way of breaking the backup up the
Catholic immigrants in Boston
and and that the Catholic schools came
about in in that at that point I'm as a
as a reaction to that name
this all came out that no nothing
society and I'm assuming you know this
history
but that has I don't see what that has
to do with the day I I don't understand
why we don't
why we're not have any conversation
about appropriately funding public
schools so that there is no need
for choice there's this so-called choice
me know why not have all of our schools
in America
be as good as all the schools me there
is
I lived in Germany for your there's no
discussion about school choice
we did our show for two weeks from from
Denmark only visited a bunch in their
schools
they at they have a month among the best
educational comes in the world
node no need for choice there's not even
discussion about white because their
public schools
work but why don't we simply make all
our public schools where there's no
discussion about it now
and most European countries because most
European countries you have choice you
can choose
a religious school productions good
Catholic school non-religious cool
and extract the matter is there because
public schools are not feeling
centuries of conflict over religion
at work what i'm saying is not only
should we empower
people the two schools because it's good
it really gives them power in the
shootout I disagree
for a first-ball Neil when we as back
early people they have
if you're talking about million not know
if you're talking about
taking my tax dollars and giving it to a
parent so that they can send their kids
to a religious school
I'm totally opposed to that well dark I
don't hurt only person I think it's a
violation of First Amendment
this is why is why James Madison's James
Madison vetoed this
it was a first veto of his presidency it
if you really need to look into
to this history will be progress for one
thing horseman was in the eighteen
thirties
feats and its so clear when you look at
american school history
that shoots while other people simply
were I'm sure
or even served adversely by the public
school system
if you look abroad school choice is the
nor
now of american National Standards but
you choose the
shortest know you're distorting what I'm
saying yes people can choose to send
their kids to a pub 28
if to a religious school but a the
government is not paying for it
in europe today urged now absolutely yes
lookup almost any European country
article in places like
sweeping which you think over sorta can
today be
belt buckle up well first thing you'll
find a mildly they don't have a first
amendment like John
think we should be well you know I mean
if you want to use witnessed the
example any on your way out I i think we
both pair points no mccluskey
on him to second male going a step down
here this is the Thom Hartmann program
your mccloskey he is the associate
director for the Center for Educational
freedom over the cato institute kato
.org website thanks Neil
very it up
