Host: You guys, both of you have created a
remarkable Empire.
That’s why I wanted to talk to you because
I think you have changed the culture.
You’ve changed social media, you changed
marketing, and you changed the way we all
think about so much of this, just to give
everybody a little bit of some stats here.
Kris has trademarked momager as it manager
between Kim Khloe, Kourtney Kylie and Kendall.
There are 600 million Instagram followers
for this family.
Kylie’s business is worth a billion dollars.
You just started skims, and I’m told sold
two million dollars of product in literally
the first couple minutes of it going live.
And it’s just an extraordinary thing that
has happened over these past close to 20 years
that so many of us have watched you grow up
frankly on TV and now social media and so
where I wanted to start with you, in terms
of how you’ve built this and it’s not
just you’ve done it once you’ve done it
now many times as the ‘momager’ of this
family and with so many things that you’ve
been doing is, what the plan was or was there
ever a plan for this to happen?
Kris Jenner: Well, I think you know, I think
it’s important to remember that when we
first got started and started filming our
show back in the early 2000s, there was barely
Twitter, and I remember Ryan Seacrest calling
me up and saying, “You got to tell Kim about
this little thing called Twitter because she
might find it really helpful and you know
some business stuff.”
And Kim really was the first one in my family
that really taught the rest of us how to navigate
that platform and then all the other ones
that were out at the time and, we were just
my kids were barely off this thing called
a two-way.
That was the phone and pagers and all this
other stuff.
It was so funny because the technology was
happening so fast.
So, when we first started and we realized
that the show was going to be a success.
That was basically the foundation for everything
else that we were able to do, and Kim and
I would sit at the end of….
Kim Kardashian: Remember you said that, and
then when you guys see season 18, please all
tweet her and remind her said that our show
was the...
Kris Jenner: Foundation.
Kim Kardashian: The foundation.
Things have changed.
Host: Let me ask you about that foundation
and the change because one of the things we’ve
been talking about a lot recently is this
issue of a fragmented media.
You guys started, and I think to some degree,
created a franchise on TV traditional linear
TV first.
Right?
Kris Jenner: Yes.
Kim Kardashian: Yes.
Host: And I wonder if you were to do it today
using just social media, whether you think
it would work, whether we work the same, whether
it would be different?
Kim Kardashian: I’m guessing my mom would
say it would work the same.
She is a big fan of, like building a brand
and social media and using your voice and
believing in yourself that you can make it
happen through that platform.
I think I’m a little bit more traditional,
where I think there was some magic of us starting
on TV, and; really building up an audience
and then the magic of timing of being around
at the same time that social media was created
I think there was just like a hit with the
TV and then another hit with social media
and so when I choose to promote a product
where some people I think maybe younger generations
will just use social media I love doing traditional
TV.
Host: What would Kylie do?
Kim Kardashian: She would probably do just
social media.
If she’s launching a product, it would be
strictly on social media.
I love to go and do the rounds and do the
night shows.
I mean, I was, I was talking to Kendall and
Kylie about, you know the days of Leno and
Letterman, and they looked at me and was like,
who?
And I was like mortified.
I was so mortified.
And, but it’s really funny, and it just
shows you know.
Kris Jenner: But there is something to be
said about, the way we started the audience
that we have now and the people that follow
us, and the consumers that buy our things,
are the people that became emotionally invested
in the family.
And there was always a family member that
somebody either, you know, loved or you know
wanted to watch their journey.
And everybody saw the kids grow up on TV for
the last decade or so.
Host: Well, that’s what’s so interesting
to me.
Because it’s generational.
Right?
I mean you…
Kris Jenner: Totally.
Yes.
Host: And you’ve actually now, sort of almost
segmented out.
If you will, so many different demographic
markets in terms of both age and all sorts
of, and just how people approach the family.
So that’s what I was thinking when you guys
create products now.
Do you guys sit around and say my brand might,
the Kim brand represents this.
The Kylie represents this.
The Chloe brand represents, they’re all
spaced out.
How does this work?
Kris Jenner: Well, they’re all separate
businesses for sure.
And I think everybody has their own completely
different demographic.
And even if you think about Kim and Kylie,
for example, they’re what 16 years apart,
and you know that’s 2, 17, there’s two
different generations basically.
And, so I think that we do examine and I treat
it like an absolute CEO or COO of the family
brand because you do.
We have so much incoming and things to choose
from and banks and…
Kim Kardashian: but they’re all very separate
as well.
Kris Jenner: Yeah!
Kim Kardashian: I don’t say…
Kris Jenner: Separate.
Kim Kardashian: ….and discuss with Khloe
or Courtney.
I mean, to give advice absolutely.
But as far as like the day-to-day managing
of our own brands and what we’re naturally
drawn to and how we operate our businesses
is completely individual.
Host: You feel like you’re competing against
each other?
Kim Kardashian: No.
We really, honestly, don’t we’re very
supportive.
I mean Kylie and I both have beauty brands.
If we happen to be at each other’s houses
and see products laying around, we’ll discuss
it, but otherwise, well, we’re very mindful
and on our calendars; to not launch a product
on the same time.
But, if she’s launching concealers and I’m
launching concealers.
They would actually be such a different product.
We have different you know skin, age, demographic,
exactly what she was talking about.
So we use our products so differently that
there has not been any competition, even in
sales-wise.
We can see our analytics; there hasn’t been
any crossover.
Host: How does this work?
I’m assuming there are hundreds of companies
that are coming to you every day saying I
want you to do a paid post on Instagram, or
I want you to invest in my thing, or become
the spokeswoman.
All of these people are coming.
How do you sort of, sort it out?
What do you accept that you want to do?
What don’t you want to do?
Take us inside the Kardashian-Jenner Empire.
Kim Kardashian: Well.
For a paid post, I am really cautious about
like, what I spend.
So if I overspend on something and a paid
post happens to come in at that time, I’ll
weigh it out and think okay.
Well, I have to pay for X, Y, and Z.
So this paper…
Host: You mean your own personal?
Kim Kardashian: Yes.
My own personal expenses.
Or if I’m even like, okay, you know, we
have schooling projects, and now it’s a
little bit more personal for me.
If I have a paid post that comes in and I
think okay, well, this can fund X amount of
people that are behind bars that can help
free them with simple legal fees that they
just can’t afford.
Then that would be worth it to me even if
the post might be a little bit off-brand for
me.
I really weigh out different things now than
I used to.
Host: What’s on-brand for you?
Kim Kardashian: Umm, any beauty as long as
it doesn’t compete Fitness, health stuff,
maybe just any health products.
If I you know, when I mentioned I was having
a CBD baby shower, because I needed some calm
before the storm of a fourth kid coming.
Every CBD company on the planet reached out,
and you just, it’s you know it’s kind
of this joke also that I do if I really want
something and I’m a bit lazy, I can tweet,
“I’m loving Oriya.
I’m craving Oreos right now.”
And then, on my doorstep later, Oreo will
show up.
Kris Jenner: it’s true with her name on
each cookie.
Host: So are there other companies though
that come to and you say look, I just this
is not, this is not me?
And I’m not going to do it, or I just can’t
do it for whatever reason.
Kris Jenner: Well, absolutely.
I mean, I think we’ve really learned by
trial and error to an experience.
I mean there was a time, when I was about
to say earlier that Kim and I, in the beginning,
would sit and have these goals.
We would write down for the year, and what
we really wanted to do the first thing that
we talked about, and Kim’s passion was,
from the very beginning, was fragrance, and
that was so just her thing, was fragrance.
Growing up, she loved fragrance so that was
one of our first goals that we wrote down
and something that we were able to accomplish.
And that felt so good.
I’ll never forget, her and I, sitting at
the Beverly Hills Hotel at this meeting and
the guy handed us a check and…
Kim Kardashian: We went in the bathroom stall,
shut the door, we’re screaming,
Kris Jenner: We’re screaming like woohoo!
And it was so exciting and satisfying, and
rewarding.
But there’s been a lot of, you know we’ve
kissed a lot of frogs along the way and thrown
a lot of spaghetti at the wall.
You know there…
Host: What hasn’t worked for you?
Kris Jenner: Well, I mean listen, one-one
great example that I like wanted to tell you
the other day was the Goat Milk campaign.
I thought Kim would be so great in like, a
goat milk campaign.
Remember, like everybody did these goat milk
campaigns and I thought, Oh, well she’s
like perfect for that.
I don’t know where that came from, and I’m
sure I was a lot more excited and enthusiastic
about this idea.
Then the goat milk people were so; that really,
never came to fruition and then at the end
of the day.
A couple years ago, Kim was in a music video
and she was taking a milk bath and I thought,
you did it Kim!
You got milk all over that body.
So that was kind of like a fun thing.
But there’s been things that talk about
off-brand.
In the very beginning, the girls did, Oh!
Kim Kardashian: We did everything.
Kris Jenner: Quick trim, and at the end of
the day, you really just wanted to be curvy.
Kim Kardashian: Cupcakes.
Kris Jenner: Exactly.
Kim Kardashian: We did everything you could
possibly imagine if someone came to us with
a product.
We were just so excited that they were interested
that we would do things that were really off
brands, and I think that even that stage in
our life.
I look back and think that was such a learning,
a growing process for us, and I feel like.
In the last few years, I finally found my
voice on what to say, no to.
What to really stand up for, how to really
focus in.
There could be amazing deals that come our
way, financially, on-brand.
Everything you know fits my criteria, but
if there’s just no time like now, I feel
like there’s a power in saying no and having
a little bit of time, you know, for my family
and self and everything else, to have a balanced
act…
Kris Jenner: That, you have to have that brand
work, to be able to put that kind of energy
and time and creativity into a brand or an
idea that somebody wants you to be a part
of and if, what; they’re you know if she’s
signing up for something that she’s never
going to have time to do.
It’s only going to be a disservice to everyone.
Host: So how does this work, though?
So did somebody calls you and say I’ll pay
you X amount of money for a post?
Is there, what’s the market, what’s the
market right now, for an Instagram post?
Kris Jenner: Hmm, Well…
Kim Kardashian: I don’t know this kind of
money.
Kris Jenner: I think that what we do have
is, I started to say earlier, is this great
incoming of offers and deals that come through
whether it’s a private equity, a brand,
a VC, a bank, you know, there’s just so
much coming in that.
We and she, my kids, all have to be their
own CEO.
I might act as the CEO of a bigger picture
and just weigh each thing that comes in if
it’s.
Kim Kardashian: I would say a cute story since
my husband’s here.
So, there was a fast-fashion brand.
A few of them, and they would knock off easy.
All the time, his color palette designs and
so this fashion fast fashion brand offered
me a million dollars for an Instagram post.
And I thought okay, well that’s you know,
easy just to wear clothes that, you know,
I can pick anything that I wanted it’s a
quick post, and when I told him about it,
he asked me not to do it, and said you know
without respect, I don’t think that we should
be giving them everything they copy.
Everything.
It’s, you know.
I completely understood why he said no.
I gladly said no.
And then for Mother’s Day he handed me an
envelope, and it was a check for a million
dollars saying, “Thank you for not posting
before the other brands,” and then, I don’t
know if I’m supposed to say this or if I
have and, a contract to be an owner is easy
as a thank you so.
Kris Jenner: Yeah!
Kanye.
Kim Kardashian: So, there is power and saying
no sometimes.
Host: There is some power saying, you know.
How do you think about your influence on the
marketplace broadly in terms of, what you
project out to the public, and the reason
I ask is and you know when Kylie tweeted at
one point if you saw this, that she tweeted
that she did when she didn’t use snap anymore?
I stopped using snap market value literally
dropped by 1.3 billion dollars.
Kris Jenner: Oops!
Host: More than Oops, but; so when you post
or when you speak, I mean it’s hard to sometimes
probably remember, who you are to some degree
what the influence is.
Kim Kardashian: Yeah, this is always something
that I struggle with.
Because I believe that people should be themselves.
Even if it’s not what you agree with, even
if it’s not your beliefs and values.
I believe in being yourself and so, when you
start thinking about how you have to censor
yourself so much.
Because it could; I mean, I personally might
not say bad things about people unless I’m
provoked.
And I have to stand up for, you know family.
But generally, I try not to talk about like,
other brands.
If I didn’t like a particular ice cream
or something you know, that I feel like could
hurt a brand.
I just kind of stay away from it.
Kris Jenner: It’s a big responsibility.
Kim Kardashian: However, I do believe that
people should speak freely, and if that’s
not what Kylie was doing and that was authentic
to her, then I don’t think that there’s
something wrong with that.
So but I struggle with that because it’s
like, I do, I always really do care about
people’s feelings, and I’m really compassionate
about a headline like that.
I would feel bad about it.
But you also just have to be yourself at the
same time.
Host: How much you think about your brand
and his brand.
And I’m looking at Kanye right now, in terms
of how you guys work together and I know that
you were part of really actually remaking
the way Skims actually turned out.
Kim Kardashian: Yeah, I mean our brands, we
respectfully let each other have our own voices
and our own brands and create our own brands,
but we’re very much together in every last
decision and detail that we make so like for
Skims.
You know he drew the logo; he, our packaging
was one way and I thought it looked amazing
and then he walked in and had about a two-hour
conversation with my whole Skims team about
why it was not so amazing.
But it was really inspiring, and really when
you look back, it was really trendy.
The old packaging.
And it I would have been sick of it by now
and he really gave us like, amazing advice
on how we want it to be classic and timeless
and all the packaging that the team was bringing
us of other products in the marketplace.
They were saying, “isn’t this better than
that?” and Kanye’s main advice was, “why
don’t you go get packaging that is, that
you think is the best of all time?”
It doesn’t have to even be in the marketplace,
but any product and you should strive to be
on that level.
Why are you striving to be better than the
worst?
And it really clicked to the whole team.
We all went back to work and he picked like
our photographer was involved in the castings
for the models for skims and colorways.
I mean everything you could think of.
So we really are, he’s like my ghost stylist
and my ghost creative director.
And it’s amazing to have someone that you
really respect and value their creative opinion.
Host: What do you think about your impact
on culture?
And the reason I say the impact on culture
is, there is a sense, and social media has
been a big part of it.
But I think a lot of people have looked at
you and your family as role models in many
ways.
Where people, where everything is now just
exposed.
You put it all out there, and there’s something
very authentic about that.
But I think there’s also people, especially
of different age groups who have misgivings
about that and sort of where the line is for
privacy and how much to really share or to
overshare?
Kris Jenner: Well, I think from the beginning,
one of the things that we said to ourselves
was, we wanted to have a successful show.
If we were gonna do this and put ourselves
out there, then we really needed to do that.
And so we said, let’s just show everything
and just be ourselves and…
Kim Kardashian: Can’t you guys remember
that episode, I’m talking about better audio
for this.
I need this on a loop too…
Kris Jenner: Oh my God!
Kim Kardashian: When this episode comes out.
Kris Jenner: Okay, I had a bad week a couple
weeks ago.
Just remember that too.
Okay, guys!
Kim Kardashian: Few months.
Kris Jenner: Yeah.
So this is going to turn into a family feud.
So, in the beginning, we and that’s I think
was, you know, this whole thing is the perfect
storm.
I think being able to work with the family
and having everybody on board.
But all at the same time willing to show,
you know, the good the bad and the ugly.
Host: What do you think we’re going to talk
to Kevin Systrom in just a little bit who
co-founded Instagram, and there’s lots of
questions about mental health-related to social
media?
Whether it’s giving people good or bad body
images, in terms of how they, how they think
about themselves?
Whether liking is actually a good thing?
Kris Jenner: Right!
Host: You know there’s so many people, I
mean, young people today, who say I just want
to get famous as quickly as possible; get
as many followers as possible, and I’m going
to figure out a way to monetize that.
Kris Jenner: And nobody has a Plan B. That’s
the problem.
If you really put all of your eggs in this
basket.
You know, I tell everybody that I speak to,
is really have to have something to hang your
hat on and create something for yourself that
sustainable, and a business that can grow
it’s just not about being famous.
For us, we happened to be lucky enough and
blessed enough to have a show, and that kind
of started everything else.
Okay, don’t say it again.
So, umm, you know that’s very valuable,
and that’s something that continues to be
very successful in almost 200 countries around
the world and as many languages.
So we got very lucky.
Kim Kardashian: It is kind of tricky, and
it is, you know, I think about when I raised
my kids and screen time, phone time, what
to post, what not to post.
You know even posting things in real-time.
I learned from a bad experience that I had.
When I was robbed that, people really knew
my every move they knew what I had, they knew
where I was, what I was doing, you know, and
that to me really changed maybe the things
that I post, and I still want people to feel
like they’re along that journey with me.
But I might video something and then post
it like 30 minutes later when I’ve left
the location, more for privacy.
But as far as mental health, I mean it’s
something that you know I think taking the
likes away and taking that aspect away from
it would be really beneficial for people and
I know that the Instagram team has been having
lots of like, inner conversations with a bunch
of people to get everyone’s take on that,
and it’s taking it really seriously, and
that makes me happy.
Host: Do you read all your comments?
Kim Kardashian: I do not.
But I find myself to be extremely mentally
strong, and I have people, friends that are
obsessed with reading the comments, and I
find that to be really unhealthy.
So I have to.
I struggle with like having to step outside
of how I feel and thinking about like, what
if one of my children was like one of my friends
that wasn’t as mentally strong and would
really be affected by the comments.
That would really affect me.
Kris Jenner: Can we get some water?
Host: We’ll get you some water for you.
Get some water.
I had a separate question which relates to
this a lot of a conversation we’ve been
having this morning is about CEOs; thank you
so much, about CEOs who have felt like they
are now taking or being pushed to take positions
either political positions or positions in
terms of culture and what’s happening in
society in a way that, perhaps they didn’t,
just a couple of years ago, you’ve gotten
very involved in the mass incarceration topic.
But I’m curious actually from as a form
a brand perspective and terms of how far you
think you’re willing to go on, you know
we’ve had people we’re going to talk about
gun violence in a minute actually, after this
after this session.
But you know whether it’s immigration or
all these other issues that are very political
and we live in this sort of very politicized
world.
You’ve now spent some time with the white
house.
How do you think about that?
Kim Kardashian: I am a really firm believer
that you should be who you are.
Believe in what you want to believe in, and
as a brand, I’m the type of person that
I could separate political beliefs from brands,
and I believe that people should have the
right to believe in whatever they want to
believe in.
And so if I don’t really push politics on
my brands, I also believe that like Kim Kardashian-West
is also a person not just like the KKW brand.
So I will speak up personally on politics
when I have to and when I want to.
Host: Did you get pushback, though?
There’s some people who like the president,
and there’s some people who can’t stand
the president?
Kim Kardashian: Yeah.
I mean, for me, I focus on prison reform,
and the president has done amazing things
in prison reform.
I will also speak up when I feel like something
is not how I feel like the world should be,
and that could be immigration or other things.
I’m very focused there’s a lot that we
have to get done in prison reform, and I believe
I will be more beneficial if I just focus
on that at the moment.
So I’m grateful for that relationship in
that area, and I focus on that.
But that was a big thing where people, so
many people advise me, don’t go to the White
House.
And it didn’t, that didn’t make sense
to me because I was like a life, if someone
can get out of, you know, prison and get their
life back versus my reputation of going to
the White House, where there is only one person
on this planet that can make the decision,
and that would be the president, and that
was even a question of, you know, for the
media.
That just absolutely didn’t make sense to
me.
I would go see anyone in power that would
have that decision to change someone’s life.
Host: Please join me in thanking Kim and Kris
and Kanye.
