SHELBY: All righty!
Welcome everybody, to our wonderful, magical evening.
Wait why is it...? Is it on my face?
Can y'all see my face?
I just want to make sure I'm doing this
right. Okay, we're good. I'm not one for
technology, y'all. This is not
who I am. Um, again, thank you for coming,
and thank you for watching.
Uh, just a quick little overview, because
we're gonna have lots of good
conversations.
Uh, this panel series is something that
uh the creative team that I'm a part of
at An Other Theater Company, both myself,
Taylor Jack Nelson and Kacey
Spadafora have talked about ways to
keep
our theater alive, and keep going. And one
of the best ways to do that without
risking people's health and coming to
see theater, is to have
important conversations that people can
be a part of. So you can think of this as
a post-show discussion,
you can think of it as whatever. But it's
also a way that the other people,
especially here in Utah, who don't often
get the chance to share things and share the
mic can have that opportunity. So without further
ado, welcome to the Black in Theatre Panel.
We're so excited to be here.
I'll start off by introducing myself. My
name is Shelby Noelle Gist.
My pronouns are she/her. I am prom
predominantly I guess, a director, and I
act,
and I also do hair and makeup. Uh,
Dorsey, I feel like we should do a roll
call. [sings] My name is Dorsey,
yeah
DORSEY: [laughs] Uh, yeah. My name is Dorsey Williams. I go by he/him pronouns, and I'm an actor
for the stage and film. And I also do
scenic design.
That's me. [laughs]
SHELBY: Where are you at?
DORSEY: Uh, I am located in Orem.
SHELBY: Perfect. Awesome. Okay, Alec.
ALEC: Hello, my name is Alec Powell.
pronouns he/him. And
I work predominantly as a music director,
as well as actor, and composer.
SHELBY: Perfect. And where are you located, Alec?
ALEC: Uh, Sandy Utah.
SHELBY: Lovely, all right.
And... Erika? Incachi? What do you want me to...
What would be your preferred? I should
have asked you this before.
INCACHI: Oh, it's okay.
Um, Incachi is my name.
Um, I uh go by she/her. I'm a singer, actor
and creative.
And any place I hang my hat is home.
SHELBY: [laughs] I love that.
INCACHI: Free spirit over here!
SHELBY: Yes. I love that.
Wonderful. Well, thank you guys again for
joining me tonight. I am
incredibly excited. I think this is gonna
be a beautiful conversation, and a very
productive one
as well. Let's jump right in. Um, I don't
wanna
waste too much of y'all's precious time
because
our time is very precious. Um,
first question I want to pose is: I know
that we're really focused on wanting to
create like, you know, the importance of
understanding
where we need to go in the future. What
we need to do first. But I think it's
also important that we can put a frame
of reference on what's going on in our
lives, and what has happened in our lives
as creators.
Of, you know... What has happened to you in
the past? Or what experiences have you
had with directors, stage managers, other
actors,
hair and makeup people, lighting people?
What has happened
in your past that you think could have
been handled better? Or that just like
shook you? Or, things of that nature. Let's
talk about the past, so we can talk about
moving forward to the future.
Who wants to go?
ALEC: I'll go first, if anyone
doesn't mind.
Um, one of the wildest
interactions I had ever had...
And I'll own up to this, I was a little ashy
during a two-show day.
But um, I had done a show,
and my ankles were exposed. And after the show,
an elderly gentleman came up to me and said:
"Now do they have to paint you for
every show?"
[Shelby gasps]
ALEC: And I... [laughs] I should have been so mad.
But it was one...
It caught me so off guard, that I just
went
"No. This is me."
And I think um, in that interaction it
was the first time it was like, Oh.
There might be a little bit of
inequality here. But also,
lack of human decency as well.
SHELBY: Right, though. Oh my gosh.
Well, that's, yeah. And that's an odd...
That's an audience member, that's not
even someone on the production team.
That's...
ALEC: Oh, absolutely. I... In this discussion
tonight, I think
as responsible as theater creators are,
I think we as creators have to
inform our audience what is appropriate,
and what is not, and what is to be
expected. So... yeah. 
SHELBY: Yeah, no I...
INCACHI: What was the... Well I just want
to know like, what was the...
Like was he genuinely...
Did he genuinely think that you were
painted? Or was that just a comment?
Like was that...?
ALEC: Yes. And, to be fair... Or, I guess not to be fair,
but this has been
something at this particular theater
that I had heard a couple times.
Another was
I had done that popular disney show with
the crab,
and I was asked if i was flown out from
Africa.
Which is so incorrect, because he's
Jamaican. But...
SHELBY: [laughs] Not even contextually true.
ALEC: You know, just some genuine ignorance
from a place of not knowing.
SHELBY: Wow. That's... Yeah, I think you're right.
As far as we have to go to make sure
that we're correct.
Like, giving our audience the
impression of what is acceptable 
and what is not.
Also, letting the audience know what
repercussions will happen when something
is inappropriate, 
when something is not...
That... Oh, you you happen to say something
was incredibly racially insensitive to
one of our cast members? We are going to
go ahead and take those season tickets back.
That if you can't conduct yourself in a safe and
appropriate way in our audience, then you
don't get to be in our audience.
Whoo.
ALEC: Exactly.
SHELBY: That's well and I... Since...
And I'll also share an experience that
when I was in college,
I um, was in a show, that I think many... 
I know Erika has heard this story, because
Erika and I have been since...
I don't know, March, been up in these
everythings trying to change things and... 
and whatever else.
So Erika is going to hear me 
just repeat myself a lot.
But it was a show in college. 
Um, in which we were
talking about getting notes from a
member of the staff. I happened to be a
sophomore. So not very many people knew
me, or knew my name.
To which, when they were going around
trying to find me
in the cast, um, the guy
kind of went out and he was trying to,
he's like, "Where's that negro girl?"
This... this white male professor that I had.
Sorry, we can just go ahead:
white, male, mormon,
cisgendered, able-bodied, not deaf or blind
person um called me out in front of the
entire cast like that.
Um that was an educational setting.
And when I went up to the other professor,
who also apologized for his behavior and
asked if we should do anything about it.
He said he'd take care of it.
And as far as my knowledge, and other
people's knowledges, nothing happened.
Nobody said anything. No one... it wasn't
even like, "Oh, where's the girl with the
big hair?"
Like, that wasn't even... like there was no
other qualifier besides
saying that to me
at 19 years old. Ooh.
Wild wild wild. But...
Erika, Dorsey, Any experiences you want to share?
DORSEY: I think for me, it's kind of in that same
vein of like... maybe
ignorance or not knowing? Uh, it's just like,
most of the designers I work with, like
hair and makeup
usually don't know what to do with like
Black hair,
Black skin. And so like, it's usually...
Usually it's me brainstorming with them,
or like me
trying to figure out what what they... what
looks good for them.
And so it's just kind of just like, "Oh". I
remember one time
they were trying their best. Uh, and I
give them, they were trying their best.
And they had a picture of like, a famous
actor. They had
Idris Elba up on like, this mirror. I was
like, Idris Elba looks pretty good, but me
and Idris Elba
are very different complexions.
SHELBY: Yeah.
DORSEY: And so, I was just like, okay,
I will try to get to the Idris Elba look.
But, yeah. I think it just comes from like...
I don't know. Not knowing. You know, you
you know?
You don't hang out with a lot of Black
people or have Black actors, so
you just don't know.
SHELBY: Yeah, the lack of
exposure. For sure. Yeah.
How about you Erika?
INCACHI: Well, goodness.
I mean, to come up with one... and I think
that's like,
the thing too, is that I mean I I've had
something in every show,
like, everything I've been a part of.
But at this point I um...
I kind of just block it out into one
thing and it's mostly just...
feeling like I'm other, or feeling
that... either feeling like I got cast in
something because they needed someone
that's diverse, or
not getting cast in something because
I'm diverse. There's always something.
Like...
And I and I think that's another thing
too. It's like I could never just...
My talent could never speak for itself.
It was always like, "Oh well you got cast
because of this" or, if I didn't,
"Oh it's because of this". Like... and having
to do
like, I remember an audition I got.
It was a film audition
and it was a voice over thing and
um I had recorded a couple times. They
sent it over to my
agency. And they're saying, "Oh, well can
you sound
I don't know, a little, like, sassier?" You
know what I mean. And like...
SHELBY: More urban?
INCACHI: Yeah. For sure. 
And at this point, like I
just have to do me. Like, there's always
gonna... I'm always going to come across
those things. And I have in shows. But um...
I think what sucks is that as a Black
person, I feel like...
like kind of how you felt Shelby, or like...
I'll look like...
When those things happen you kind of
just have to take it on, and like move on,
or like, just deal with it. And
and so... and so, it just becomes another day.
So yeah, I've had a lot of experiences like that.
SHELBY: It's it's it's hard. And I I was at a
Black solidarity summit a few years ago,
and there was a beautiful speaker, Ericka
Hart, who
um, was taking questions from a crowd. 
And there was a preschool teacher who was
like how do I teach my Black students...
and this is in Montana, so there were
like, not very many Black people there in
the first place.
And this... he said, "How do I make my few
Black preschoolers feel
resilient? Or feel like they they can push
past any barrier?"
And Ericka Hart asked the question back
to them and said,
um "Well, why do they need to be resilient?"
And I feel like that's just an attitude that
we have adopted,
is like there's so many people out
here who are like, "I want to make Black
people feel like they can achieve
anything
and that they they should never have to
feel like they have to..." or "They should
know that they can fight for whatever".
It's like, well why do we have to fight?
What barriers are being put up in our way?
And I think we come a lot of that in casting.
I think a lot of us actors are used to
walking into casting calls and being like,
there's a certain demographic for this role.
I know I'm probably not going to get a callback.
ALEC: Um, totally. I... How many auditions have we
been at where it's
I go to the Hairsprays and the Aidas and
the shows where I know
that I have a shot at getting cast?
Whereas, you know, if I walk into
a golden age musical, even though I studied
voice classically, I'm gonna get looked over.
And it's... I already know. So why waste
our time?
But it shouldn't necessarily be like that. [laughs]
SHELBY: Right.
INCACHI: Well, I think what's hard about that too 
is that now you're also competing. Like if
there's only one Black role, you're
competing
for one role. When everyone else like, has
multiple roles to choose from.
So it only becomes more difficult.
ALEC: Oh, totally I...
I have friends who will talk about, 
"So you're going to this show,
and i'm not going to go to that show, so
we're not competing against each other."
Because it is that coveted...
that coveted "ethnic track" in the show.
And I... you know, it's this performative
allyship, where it's...
You don't need just one person or two
people. You can have
as many as you see fit. Or as many fit
the show.
SHELBY: Mhmm.
Or, another thing, though. When you do have
the ethnic roles and then they
are casted with non-ethnic people.
SHELBY: Ooh. Don't get me started.
INCACHI: Showed up to this audition for no reason! Yay.
Love that. It's great.
SHELBY: Yeah, let's talk about... 
Let's talk about that real quick.
Just in... just in case there are some people here
that are unfamiliar
with why it is not okay
to cast non-People of Color in roles
that are for People of Color.
That being: Aida, Lil Inez,
uh Tituba from... what's that one play that
everybody knows that I can't remember?
INCACHI: The Crucible
SHELBY: Thank you.
INCACHI: Celie from Color Purple
SHELBY: Yes! Why? What? Okay, well I mean, I'll start off
because I''m already getting my hands
involved, and i'm already upset.
But for those of you who think that
things like blackface or brownface or
redface or whatever you want to...
color face you want to put out there is,
is the fact... well, for many reasons. But
number one,
is when you do a show in blackface, you
don't understand
that you can put that white person in
that role give them a spray tan,
a different color foundation, a wig,
whatever it may be,
they get to take that off and go home.
That is their job.
That is their role. And then they don't
get to go out to the world and
experience that. And if you're talking
about authenticity on stage,
you can't authentically put somebody on
stage who hasn't experienced those
things, and have your theater be
real or relatable. Because they don't
know. Because they don't walk around like
we do every day.
Whoo. Okay.
[Dorsey and Alec laugh]
SHELBY: So, I think... I mean, maybe that just covers it, and we can probably move on.
As for many reasons, stop doing it.
I'm gonna call you out. I'm gonna send you an
email when you do it.
Watch for me.
DORSEY: I think uh...
You know, Shelby, I think another uh, like...
That's just an actor standpoint, or
director standpoint.
But on the audience standpoint,
I remember going to like,
a few plays. I'm not sure if Black people
like go to a lot of plays or theater.
Uh but I don't remember ever seeing any
like People of Color when I went to like these big, like
colosseums, or
or big stages for these shows.
I only saw like...
I guess, white kids. Or like white, like
males, or like
or beautiful like women. I just, I never
saw a Black man
in a leading role. I never saw a Black
woman in a leading role. I never really
saw an Asian in this
in a leading role. I just only saw...
just one. One niche person.
SHELBY: Yeah.
Which and I mean, I've never... I haven't
personally ever been overseas. But I have
many friends who have been to study
abroad, and so on and so forth but said
that that's almost like the exact
opposite in other countries especially
in England. That like there's usually at
least one Person of Color that's a part
of like the set lead people.
Like, it's very normalized in other
cultures. Maybe not so much American
Westernized culture to have that.
But that's just a given in other shows,
and what happens in other places,
people are like, "Oh this is weird. Why, why
isn't this happening?"
So... but in.... so in regards to all that,
and our experiences and what we've talked
about, tell me about ways that you
would have... you hoped people would have
reacted, or
how they would have apologized for what
they had done, or what actions should
have been taken after
things have happened to you in theater.
I know that's kind of a big question.
DORSEY: Um.. my wish and hope,
um, might be similar to yours uh, Shelby.
Is there was a a moment
where a... where we were at a cast kind of
i don't know meeting and we were just
talking, and in
the play we wanted to focus on like
heritage and
traditions, in this play. And so, the
director thought it'd be like, a good idea to...you know
SHELBY: Yeah, I was here for that. Ooh.
DORSEY: Thought it'd be really cool to like get
everyone's like heritage and understand
like where everyone's coming from.
Um, and so everyone went. Uh...
and as a Black person, or
yeah, as a Black male, I was just
thought...
What am I going to say? Because
everyone's like, "Oh yeah, I'm Irish", or "I'm
like
and then i can trace my lineage to like...
I don't know some tropical like European
spot". I don't know. And then, I thought I
would like, sneak out,
or like, be like missed. Uh... but no.
All eyes fell on me. The director's like,
"So Dorsey,
where are your family from?" I was like, "Ahhh....
Yeah, I don't know [laughs] I don't really know."
Uh and so you know...
SHELBY: And I remember Dorsey...
If I remember correctly, the director was like,
"What do you mean you don't know?" 
Like, genuinely confused
as to why you wouldn't know where your
ancestors are from.
DORSEY: Yeah.
SHELBY: And then you had to explain
to her that there was no record, because
of your heritage. And then like,
the most awkward chill just spread over
the room.
Because... as as I refer to it as,
you brought your Blackness into the room
with you.
DORSEY: Right.
SHELBY: People don't... that's not like, usual
for a lot of different
like rehearsals, is like if it doesn't
specifically have to do with the text
we're talking about then you have to
bring your Blackness in the room with you
by bringing it up, or making it apparent.
DORSEY: Yeah.
SHELBY: Which is...fun.
DORSEY: So I wish that [laughs] that whole situation
never happened. But I also wish that like,
someone would have came up to me and
said, "That was kind of
awkward. I'm so sorry you had to go
through that."
But no one did. And maybe no one
realized it was awkward for me, or maybe
no one cared that it was awkward.
Um, but it was.
And I feel like that's life. That's life
for...
people like us.
SHELBY: Right. so in that terms, that teacher should have done their homework.
That teacher should have read a few
books about
why it's not necessarily the most kosher
thing to just bring up ancestry in a
room full of people, because it can be hard for for some  people to talk about.
DORSEY: Yeah.
The teachers should have had their
had checked their privilege in understanding that question.
But... Erika and Alec, any thoughts?
ALEC: I'll go. Um, I think...
Um, in the experiences that I've had,
it's people validating my
experiences after the fact. After there's
the big blow up, there's the big...
we have the big argument about, you know,
this cis het white person can't play this role
that's not for them, but they
are arguing till the cows come home.
And I... You know,
in my belief that's wrong. And we have
the argument. And after the fact:
"Well, I agreed with you, but I didn't want
to hurt so-and-so's feelings."
Well, you hurt my feelings. And you also
negated, you know, an advantage point
that's not your own.
And it's... my wish is that I didn't have to do
all of the fighting for myself. And I
know that we are our own best advocate.
But how many people don't have to advocate
for themselves day after day,
but also come to, you know, what should be
a safe place theater where we, you know,
it's glorified pretend make believe we
can be whoever we want to be, so
you shouldn't have to validate in such a
creative space.
INCACHI: Um, something I thought about...
It's a little different. Um, I guess...
So even like now, like everyone is kind of like...
Okay, this is gonna sound really, like,
depressing.
Okay. So, right now, everyone's an ally,
right? Black Lives Matter,
hashtag Black Lives Matter.
I just... I still am at this point where
actions speak louder than words. So I
just don't buy anything until
I feel completely safe with someone. So
even saying like, someone could have done this...
I don't care.
Like, I I know I'm a boss like I I can
take criticism. I can take a racist
comment. I can take whatever. Again, like
that is something, like, Black people are
strong. That is something that's
engrained in them. Like, "You're strong so
you can do anything!" but
but really we are strong. So at the end
of the day,
I don't need someone to stand up for
myself. I think it's like,
it is within your best interest to do
something, because
if not, you're a shitty person. Like, it
has nothing to do with
"Oh, like they're an ally!" Like, it's
doing something right,
or doing something wrong. You know?
And that's that's on you.
Like I... But at the same time, like I
remember the people that do
do the right thing, and they're on my
team. I'm like yes, you.
Like, thank you. But everyone else
that just kind of sits in silence? I...
It's like, okay. Like, i'm not expecting
anything different.
And and that's just kind of the reality.
Like, that's something that I
felt growing up for sure. And even now, 
like, kind of more so.
Because everybody's like,
"Okay! Yeah! Like, I care!"
And like, okay. Well, we'll see, I guess.
Like, I hope you do.
But at the same time, if you don't, I have
to live my life. I have to...
Like, I can't rely on you. 
But that's just me.
SHELBY: No I I absolutely agree. That I... yeah.
I mean I don't I don't take apol... like
I'm this sounds also really harsh and
depressing, but i don't take apologies anymore.
But when you come up to me you're like,
"Oh I'm sorry, like I saw that you were
struggling, but I'm sorry I didn't do anything."
And it's like, okay.
Are you...? Like, I can't... I'm so done
absolving people
of their sins. Like of them being like,
"I'm sorry that I said this to you",
"Sorry that I did this to you". 
Like, okay. Now what?
Now what happens? Which takes us into
our next point,
which is great. Um which is what
experiences have you had
here in Utah, or abroad, um
that have like, come to like a full
potential of what you would have wanted.
And I will go ahead and just share a
story about my good friend Erika here
that when I was still figuring out my
Blackness and coming into my Blackness,
we had a theater class together. Erika, I
don't even know if you remember this. But this is my favorite memory of you. But we were in
a scriptwriting class together.
And in that scriptwriting class, we had
a lot of different people, with a lot of
different views
on how um the world worked.
And I happen to be writing a script
about um
a member of the Civil Rights movement um
uh that I... so it was a Black piece.
And when I did my first edit, I wanted
Erika to be in my group to read it,
because I wanted
like, more of... I mean a more diverse,
like, experienced person to read it, other
than just my regular white class
classmates. And when I
told the teacher, I was like, "Oh hey, like
I would actually really like Erika to
be in my group, if that's okay." Because she got assigned to a different group.
And... but Erika had been asked to be in
another person's group to read their
script. So then she was trying to figure
out like, "Oh,
who am i supposed to be part of?" And one
of the students, one of those
male cisgender white man students turn
around and looks Erika in the face and
says:
"Well that's quite the privilege you have!"
And without skipping a beat, Erika turns
around and says, "That's funny coming from
a white man."
And I just lost it. I was like, oh!
I think in that moment I just went, oohh!
It's like so overcome with like
[Incachi laughs]
How's this even? Oh man. It was...
INCACHI: I like vaguely remember...
You'll have to tell me after who that person [laughs] who I said that to...
Oh my god.
SHELBY: So funny. So good. It was... well, it was just one of those moments that like
I saw
you not taking crap from somebody, and
you not taking anybody's shit.
And I was like okay. I gotta match this
woman. Because you brought out a side of
me that I was like,
I didn't even know. Like yes. Call out the
colonizers.
Call out all these people. And it brought more to my education, because I knew how to stand up
to people after that moment. I wasn't
afraid, because I'd seen you do it.
So...
INCACHI: Oh my gosh.
SHELBY: That is my experience
with watching people in my field just
not take the crap. If any... and I'll stop
talking if you guys have some
experiences yourself.
INCACHI: Oh my gosh.
SHELBY: It's a big question. But...
INCACHI: Every day? I don't know. I... like that...
I really, we'll have to talk about that
after
but I don't... I've just never been like
scared to say that?
I don't know. To stand up for myself, I guess.
In any way.
but um... but yeah, it's
even like, oh yeah, so I was living in New
York, and the same thing. Like,
if someone's rude? Like, call them out.
Like, I'm sorry, like, you're being rude.
[Laughs] You know? Um... I...
Yeah. I I guess...
I guess, I mean, it's it's definitely
easier when it's like
plain or if it's funny. That was
probably a funny moment. I wasn't like
like it was like i was making fun of
someone, whatever. But um,
but I think it's easier when when it's
really obvious.
It's like uh, I'm sorry, what?
It's harder when it's really subtle, and
when it's like you don't know you're
being
manipulated. Um, that's harder.
But... but yeah, when it's like abrupt,
always call someone out. For sure.
SHELBY: Mhmm. I think the... like as far as the topic goes of like
experiences you've had in Utah that have
come out for your potential,
and things that people have done in
order for you to
come together, is that I was one... I was in
a class of theater history and
literature,
and that someone had uh made a comment
and the teacher... I don't even remember
what it was. But the teacher called them
out.
in front of the whole class, and was like,
"That's not correct."
And the student came back and was like,
"No, I've read studies!" And the teacher was
like, "I have a PhD."
And like rather than doing that thing
where we get called on in class to be
like, "Hey, Black person in the room, can you talk
about this? Can you bring this experience
to life for us? Can you
humanize this?" And it's like, "Are you
gonna pay me? Am I getting paid?
No? Then no, I cannot. You can ask the teacher
who's teaching the class to do that."
And, yes. Thank you Lisa Hall Hagen... or
Lisa... Lisa Hall, now. Thank you, Lisa Hall
for doing
that beautiful piece of work for me.
Because I remember sitting there being
like, "Oh, I'm off the hook.
I don't have to do that." 
Just do your homework. It's not hard.
INCACHI: Ooh.
SHELBY: But... yeah. How about you, Alec? Have you had any experiences where a
stage manager, director, 
fellow cast member were able to
step in, or make something better or just
had human decency and didn't make
cause a problem at all?
ALEC: Yeah um there's a slight turn on the
question but um
and i'll call this director out by name
because it was an amazing experience
in this regard. But I was doing a
production of To Kill a Mockingbird,
and playing Tom Robinson, and our
director was white.
And I didn't realize this at the time,
but he probably gave one of the greatest
gifts he could, which was
to let a black person tell that part of
the story
in a way that was congruent with the
experience. And
for as much directing happened, it was
very hands-off. It was,
"if there's something egregious, I will
tweak" but also,
"you know the subtext of this better
than I will ever".
And it was just one of those moments
where I went that's
that's not you know "allyship", but a true
allyship. It is letting the experience be
what it should be.
SHELBY: I love that, that's beautiful. Yeah.
I think that happens often, too. And I feel
like... and we can talk about this more,
if we feel the need to go into this part
of the dialogue, but as far as like, uh
theater... Yeah, let's talk about this. What
are your guys's thoughts on like...
because i mean like people are looking
for like Black content, Black theatre, Black
movies, Black everything, to like
understand and you know be like allies
and woke and with the times,
and whatever. But a lot of people are
going to things like To Kill a
Mockingbird
or things to um... the Porgy and Bess that is
like
one i don't know a show... or Ragtime.
That's what I meant. Ragtime. Or people
going to Ragtime, where like
we're looking at stories of like Black
struggle but we're not looking at
stories of Black progression. Do you guys see... do you
guys see that happening often? Do you
think...
Do you have any opinions on that?
ALEC: Yes. Um, I think it's... especially in the
community we live in, in Utah,
it's a lot easier to see Black struggle
when it has a nice cute bow attached to
the top of it.
If this Black person is unassuming and
looks like they fit the model mold of
what a Black person looks like,
then it's all fine. But we don't we don't
see the stories of progression, because
it doesn't fit
the current narrative that theater is
trying to make it out to be.
SHELBY: Very true.
INCACHI: Um, I just wanted to say, like um
all the world's a stage so
it's like a double like inception there
like i
i understand like okay there are too
many shows being produced where there's
back struggle and but
at the same time the shows that i think
about the black shows i think about it's
their struggle involved in the storyline
there's racial division there's
like there's something in it that that
signifies like
oh the the oppressed you know and
and so i think this is a bigger question
of how can we show
stories how how can more playwrights
write
success stories how can we as people
look to the future and i think like
even regarding like afrofuturism has
been something that i've kind of been
more interested in just because it gives
black people a foundation where
where are the possibilities here you
know like what
what what does the world look like
without
this racial divide or racial tension
what
like what can we see what can we
envision because guess what like
it's it's really what you can come up
it's not it's not a history thing it's
like
what you can come up and so that's
that's something what what does the
future
hold for black people and a way to do
that
is by kind of breaking up the past
and kind of looking towards the future
and
rather than like okay let's go back and
retell the story you know and i love a
lot of these shows but
how many times do we have to do a show
and what's the message what's the theme
now like what are we getting out of it
what is anyone getting out of doing the
same show about this
problem and this you know like i'm just
looking forward to
things where i can look at a script and
be like
yeah that fits me it doesn't mention
race once or if it does it's in a
positive light
but it's not the whole premise isn't
about
and they were mad at each other because
of the color of their skin you know it's
just
it's just been done so many times and
the question for me is why do we need to
keep on doing this
what are we doing
yeah i think that's i think that's a
very fair um
statement and i was recently on a um i
would say i don't have a conference call
whatever it is with um other
um black utah high school alumni um for
the
utah theater teachers association and we
were
taking q a and they were asking us like
how do we celebrate
black performance and black playwrights
and
black actors and whatever else when we
don't have any
black children in the room and someone
brought up a beautiful beautiful point
of like well watch
like you have the internet at your
fingertips that like there's
so much out there for you to be able to
experience that yeah afrofuturism
was not familiar with that vocab term
but you better believe i'm gonna
look it up tonight and buy a book like i
love
love that and i think that's what i've
been looking for
and to have conversation like this of
course is important which is why we're
broadcasting it and putting it on the
world
but there's so much there is so much out
there
more than just poor game best the color
purple
raisin in the sun like fences you name
it there's more than just those black
struggles to black identity as well
i think a lot of white people forget
that the black identity is so much more
than strength and struggle
so much more it's it's hard sometimes
because people like you're so strong and
brave
like yeah but i'm delicate okay like i
am also allowed to be
soft too i am allowed to be soft i don't
have to be 100
aggressive going hard all the time i'm
allowed to experience the human gamut of
emotions and some people i don't think
expect that because we have lots of
other archetypal characters who don't
experience that just
that way go ahead alex i think uh you're
hitting the nail right on the head we
have so many tropes that black people
are pigeonholed into in the not even
just the writing but
in portrayals of performances words
we are a you know africa is probably one
of not probably is one of the most
diverse continents which you know we
come from so we are just as diverse as
the motherland why are we telling
stories that are only such a small
gamut of and why why must the black
person always be loud
aggressive sassy angry when it's you
know we're
people too and can feel every single
human emotion
absolutely agree i absolutely agree yeah
i think it's i and whenever i talk to
people about this with like
black people like black people should be
allowed to be weird
and i think i know there's a campaigner
slogan out there i think it's something
i think it's called protect
uh black nerds i think is what it's
called but just the idea that like
black people have to be like cool and
calm and professional
but like we can't be nerds or weird
about it and i think of
types like winston from new girl and
and that idea of him being like obsessed
with a cat and like he's just
a strange kind of a person but that's
who i
that's a black character that i've
related to a lot in my life um but i
also like before we go any further also
like
recognizing because i remember i was in
a theater history class as well i think
i took a million different theater
history classes because i failed wanting
money when i was in school but
then i took a few classes and in it i
remember they were like oh yeah in an
african theater they like had some
theater like some performative stuff
but then like they got colonized so
there was no more theater and then we
moved on to like whatever other region
of the world
i was like that that doesn't seem right
and then i did my own research and
actually did a lecture for a different
teacher for
um a different section of theater and i
found so many different resources on how
african theater worked and how it was
done throughout colonization it was just
changed over time due to colonization
and we have to talk about
storytelling and what roots of
storytelling are
to africa what roots of storytelling to
indigenous people what they are
all over the world and that we as
african-americans black african whatever
you might identify as
are doing theater in a form that has
been created by a colonized
art architecture i don't know what the
word i want is there but
the idea that like memorizing words on a
page
and standing in front of somebody and
somebody telling you how to move is very
different than different
origins in the world and i was talking
to
somebody about this the other day my
good friend courtney don't worry if
you're watching hi courtney gilmore
just that like the origins of
storytelling
have act like originated so long ago
and have been changed and formatted to
wide expectations since
and so understanding that as directors
producers so on and so forth that when
you're
especially doing uh shows that are about
afrofuturism or even african-american
struggle or whatever it may be
understand that like you having six
african-americans sitting in front of
you especially if you're white and
saying like okay we'll try the line this
way
might not be the same approach as what
our bones are telling us which like
sounds kind of
really like spiritual or whatever but
like
those stories like alex was talking
about has have a completely different
experience when we're allowed to take
charge of those does that make sense i
feel like i'm rambling
do you hear what i'm saying yeah you're
not so i'm suing it yeah i hear you
okay great um i'm gonna go on to our
next question
um which is what do you want to see
change
in theater in utah nationwide and
globally
what would you like to see
come to fruition
um for one i would really like lighting
designers to
start thinking about lighting black
people
then have a more accurate color yes
the amount of times i've been on the
stage and they shine that light on me
and i'm like
oh please tell me this ain't the final
color because we're in tech and i
understand that things are going to
change
but i look like a brown paper bag this
is not doing me any favors
i don't think this is what your concept
is trying to achieve that would be my
one thing is that lighting design well
not my one thing
but my number one thing would be that
last designers
when you're when you're doing your stuff
please please i know you've got like
nine people who are white and like two
people who are black and they're
ones mixed and one's dark skin just just
like keep a special eye
just keep an eye on what they look like
as well um but darcy what about you what
do you want to see
change wow i was like we kind of talked
about it before but i just want to see
the narrative of like a black person
play
a disney prince or like you know
into the woods is like one of my
favorite musicals which is kind of a
weird musical but
i just i like it i like the songs and i
just i want to see
one of those princes or both those
princes
be a person of color i feel like that
would be such a cool thing because i
never
saw that as a kid i see tyler perry's
you know
um medea shows and dear things like that
which he does a great job if you haven't
seen tyler perry
go out and watch this stuff but like
i don't see that all i want to see more
i want to see more
black people people of color in major
roles so that
i can feel inspired and that that
narrative progresses
to other things where they see i see us
as like romantic more romantic leads
more like
heroes more more different things it's
just
i want to see the narrative pushed more
and we're kind of going that way
just a little more faster yeah and i
think i'll add to that to dorsey that
like
when i i went to dc for the first time
um a few uh
like almost a year ago now and um
i saw a production of into into the
woods where more than half the cast for
people of color
changed my life and i was like why don't
we have this in utah why can't i find
this in utah
we have the people
but i know we know why but yes i
absolutely hear you on that one
i would love to see more shows like that
um what about you alec mine is along the
same lines as dorsey i
um was thinking as i was driving home
today what was the first time i felt
represented either on stage or screen
and it was the 97 rogers and hammerstein
cinderella with my homegirl
randy winnie houston and you know
how conversely uh to those who aren't
part of the black community when was the
first time
you felt represented because i feel like
it happened
way earlier than that i mean i was
already in elementary school
and you know didn't have that same
experience and that
that was the impetus for me to want to
be creative to want to
you know essentially be magical my
hope and goal is that we start you know
little black girls can be cinderella
there's nothing that says they can't
and they should be able to feel just as
magical putting on
those glass slippers and i know this
sounds so
hokey and uh romanticizing you know a
really serious issue but
um part of that is we we go to
theater to see different facets of
ourself in the shows we watch
and if you if i can't see myself
because either lack of representation or
lack of
honest discourse about that then it puts
people off of theater i was
um not there during laundries i was in
another
uh meeting with some creatives talking
about a different theater in the state
and one of the one of the big stumbling
blocks was this theater
is afraid that their audiences won't see
themselves
in the show which the report was well
wait a second i've you know worked for
this cedar for a while and
i love
myself in those shows that i'm currently
in but i
you know i have to be that person for
someone else and i think that's why
we keep up the good fight but also it
shouldn't have to be that hard
agreed and also like if black people are
supposed to relate to a white hamlet
then you can
relate to a black cinderella like
there's
like that's not fair for that that's not
fair to anybody
to be able to say like well we can't
relate to the experience and it's like
well we're not asking you to
to pretend like you are the experience
but it's not fair that we're supposed to
sit down
and watch i don't know
i don't want some really moving the
notebook i don't know and feel sad like
it's not like oh well they're white so
i'm not upset
because i can't relate to that that's
not something like you they get such an
experience that we're supposed to
understand
yeah um
yeah i guess just i'm excited to see
things
being interesting and less predictable
like
i want to see a role like i want to see
like
not just a black syndrome because then
it's like oh because then yeah
it's like oh well she got cast because
you know whatever like
she's also fat and she also like has a
bald head and she you know like just
kind of going against
the usual like type casting things would
be cool
and interesting yeah breaking those
archetypes
of white assimilation as well
yes stop asking me to straighten my hair
and then curl it to be it doesn't
bothers me to no extent um
another question i have that i know i
didn't send you guys previous to but i
feel like because it's
um uh it happened recently i would love
to share it
um and talk about it a little bit but
just um
since chadwick boseman's passing and how
i don't know if it has affected you some
of you might i don't know i don't prince
a child i don't know him but like
for some of you who do i know i have i
even cried today like it's it hit me
it's hit me really really hard
um if you guys have any thoughts on
what chadwick boseman has done for not
only
the film industry but for our community
um
are you did you take it personally has
it been hard have you just kind of like
let it roll off your shoulders
yes i mean for me yeah i
i remember i mean i feel like this is
gonna be like a black thing
for a little bit uh as time goes on
like where were you when chadwick
bozeman you found out chadwick bozeman
passed away
um and i was at work and i get like
these cnn
like updates uh and i looked at my phone
and i was kind of shocked to see
chadwick's name on there
and i was like okay and i keep reading
and he
i thought he died uh
and i and i felt like
move i felt i don't know how let's
describe it move to almost tears
and i don't know him personally it's not
like i had dinner with him or met him or
guy's autograph or anything like that
but i've seen his his work i've seen
um i felt his like his spirit in those
like
in those roles uh black panther being
like a great movie
not just like it was all all black and
it was all like
marvel and all great it's like a great
story
and to have someone who was like a
champion
really a champion of for the black
community
for for everyone he wanted everyone to
feel good and
feel respected and feel like they they
mattered um that moved me
uh and so when i found out last night i
was like i didn't cry but i could feel
myself being like
worked up to tears
alec or um erica any thoughts
i'm not super tied to movies just the
nature of the beast but what i will say
is you know anyone who's had such a
profound effect on a community that
uh their the loss of them is this
great amongst you know everyone that
that says something i am a strong
believer of the loss of one black
creative
is devastating to uh the black creatures
as a whole i mean
there's not in comparison there's not a
lot of us and so
to have someone who's done so much and
has really had a platform to you know
what black people can do um that loss is
pretty heavy
yeah i think yeah i agree i think
also like kobe bryant passing as well
this year i think
um i think yeah that definitely
does affect the black community but i
think
just knowing how something that's been
really interesting and like
kind of inspiring is that like how close
the community is and when those things
happen
um everybody kind of come together
has been nice and seeing people like pay
tribute
and um talk about
what moved them and how that person was
significant in their life was something
that um
was just cool to be a part of yeah
i uh i obviously have taken the news
quite hard
um personally i because i yeah i came to
trial like all black panther i guess
that's amazing
i actually first like connected with
chassis boseman in the movie 42
um the movie about jackie robinson the
first um uh
professional um uh
baseball the national baseball week
and i remember i went and saw the movie
with my family and like i grew up in it
like
here in utah where we grew up around my
mother's family which is
white my dad's family is on the east
coast of north carolina and another
state so i didn't really get to see them
a lot but i remember we went to see this
movie with my dad and in the movie
um there's an experience where jackie
robinson is up at the plate he's
playing and someone just keeps calling
him the n-word over and over and over
and over again and he eventually goes
into
the dugout area which transitioned to
the locker room away from everybody and
just start
sobbing and crying and i was like whoa
this is really intense i remember
looking over at my black father and
seeing him
in tears and then my dad does not cry
and
seeing him cry i was like okay
and that's part of you being mixed and
me being a light-skinned person being
able to understand the struggles of
someone who is much darker skinny
because yeah i haven't called like the n
word like
a handful of times in my life but it's
nothing compared to my
dark skin brothers and sisters and so to
be able to see that reaction in my
father
brought me understanding of like okay
there is a much larger struggle here
that i need to learn and like understand
and then
other movies came out i can't remember
the movie he's an incredible singer
um that he did and then black panther
came out and then all of the avengers
and everything else and i
just fell in love with him and in his
career and
meant a lot so it was hard to see him go
but yeah i think erica brings up a point
like
even like when kobe bryant passed i was
like whoa that's
hard but i don't i'm not much of a
basketball person so i was like yeah we
lost a
large figure the black community and
then chadwick came and i was like okay
now i
understand what other people were
feeling and how but yeah i think as a
black community
it's brought us together and i posted on
instagram earlier today that said if you
don't say wakanda forever if you can't
say black lives matter
and if you think that the two aren't
mutually exclusive i don't know what
movie you were watching
but the whole the whole like climax of
the movie was talking about what we're
gonna do
as a as the whole world
about black struggle and about
reparations
for black people and like all of these
other things so
thank you for indulging in that um
quick pop-up uh question but
um i think the last thing that i think i
want to hit on because i think it's very
prevalent
to wake up our other white um
allies slash members of the theater
community is
what does it mean to you to be um
like labeled as uh hard to work with
when it comes to shutting people out
when they say something racist or
when someone tries to touch your hair in
a rehearsal room or like whatever that
means
like the fear of being called
um hard to work with do you know what i
mean
does that make sense um actually can you
repeat it i don't know if i understand
yeah um just the idea that like when you
walk into a rehearsal room and someone
says something or does something
and you're you can either like like
retaliate and be like
don't say that but if you do the
the fear of being called oh or someone
else being like
oh i was in a rehearsal that person and
someone tried to touch her hair once and
she like freaked out she's really hard
to work with
and being labeled hard to work with no i
it's never been something that crossed
my mind honestly
i if it's something like that if that's
the context of it
no that doesn't make me hard to work
with and if it does i don't want to work
with you
oh perfect yes
alex jordan what about you guys i'm with
inkatchy on this i
you know if if i'm labeled hard to work
with because i'm
standing up for myself that's not on me
if i
if you know if there are people who
don't like that
i for whatever reason anyone have
feelings
exactly or if when someone says hey will
you rip for me and i go
no no i won't and they get offended
that's not on my
like that's i go to bed fine at night
dorothy i don't yeah i feel like maybe
i'm in the same boat i
i'm trying to think of there's like a
moment where i felt like that from
people
um
there was times where i felt that myself
like oh if i
like if i speak up or if i do something
that like focuses on this point of of my
life
i feel like people will be irritated
about that
but from my experience when those
moments happen
um it brings up a great discussion i've
been
i mean i'm very fortunate to have like
cast members
who have been like super um respectful
some of them haven't
uh don't understand fully like the black
experience
or haven't been around a lot of black
people so they have so they have
questions so
sometimes i have to direct them to like
where to find information if i don't
want to like share fully like
yeah because it's not my job to like
teach people about the black experience
but like i never had like someone come
to me and be like
or behind my back i never heard of
anyone going like
that dorsey is like a heart like he's
really hard to work with because like
every time we like joke or i pretend
it's like i never had that because all
my all everyone i've worked with
the majority of people i've worked with
have been
very respectful um
and have wanted to know how how best to
to learn and to grow
yeah um well then maybe it's just
because i'm a sagittarius and a rising
aquarius i just want everybody to feel
validated and loved
and i care i'm the opposite of you by
the way i'm an aquarist rising sad
so weird we were meant to tyson's moon
taurus man but still still good
um but i'll share a quick experience and
then
get to my point with this question but
as far as i was um involved in a show
uh where there were multiple directors
for multiple different reasons
and we were doing a battle scene where
someone suggested um
to the cast that they do a very
stereotypical indigenous
cr war cry to make it seem more
quote unquote savage um
to which i shut down really quickly and
was like that's not appropriate
um not only is it an incredibly harmful
stereotype but none of these people even
are indigenous so there's
no reason for us to do this and then
later
on in the process i was walking past and
off they were there were two people
sitting in an office and i heard them
talking about me
and how i was too outspoken how it's
really not that big of a deal
and how i was always i want to bring up
contention mind you
i don't like again like i definitely
feel the need of like well then i don't
care like it's
i don't care if you have a beef it does
not matter to me
but i think the point that we're all
that like all three of you have summed
up beautifully is that like
yeah like if you want to if you want to
label us
as hard to work with you need to check
your privilege and what you consider
culture and what you consider to be
standing up for themselves
because if someone if you i don't know
like touching my hair
maybe it's gonna happen today but then
someone touched my hair
and which were in covent so i'm like six
feet away please
came up and touched in here in a
starbucks today and
really oh absolute stranger absolute
stranger just walked up and was like i
love your hair and i immediately
we're still touching the hair we're
still no
yeah we're still touching the hair in
the great city of murray we're still
touching
so maybe that's just why it's fresh on
my mind but that when you turn around
and you see why is she getting so
offended about somebody touching your
hair
stop asking that question turn around
and say
why why oh it's probably like
her need to have her own her own space
and her the fact that she's black and a
woman
the fact that she shouldn't have her own
space according to
american society maybe that's why we
shouldn't touch her hair
like before you deem us as difficult to
work with or hard to work with
check what our culture or what
you know your culture says about two
different things and the difference
between
that might be is what is i guess is what
i'm getting at
absolutely i i think if you know if
theaters or directors or the
people that be want to blacklist
creators for being
hard to work with that's that says more
about the theater company than
um the actor
absolutely yeah i think and anyone
that's tuning in like i think
as an actor you have to know your worth
like if that were to happen what like
really what why would you want to work
with people that think that way
and that treat you that way there's you
know there's a million other problems
you're gonna deal with why deal with
this one
very true very very true
wow yeah yeah what's up
i meant to bring this up earlier and
it's not a talking point but i just
would love to get uh other people's
input so i was so i'm an educator as
well
um and one of the things we're talking
about is the inequity in
uh theater and education and what that
looks like
uh on stage you know it's it's an
expensive
hobby that we do between you know the 50
voice lessons dance lessons acting
training
and frankly a lot of bipod members
you know their their money needs to
other places
how i i guess my question is
what does the ideal look like for that
because you know there's this old school
thought well
these bypak actors can't be in these
roles because they don't have the
experience but they don't have the
experience because they've never been
given the opportunity
because they don't have the financial
means to access it so
what does i i guess financially how does
theater become accessible or what does
that look like
well okay this is something i'm very
opinionated about i need everybody
especially teachers
to stop with this narrative of like
well i mean like she just hasn't
progressed especially when it comes to
bipac
and trans and other people who don't
have the same access to these
the things you're talking about like
voice lessons acting lessons dance
lessons whatever else
and being like we just don't have the
time to teach them how to do all that
you are a teacher
you are a teacher i need you to look at
your rehearsal schedule and tell me when
you are going to teach
this how to do the best thing and there
was
current there was a school in new york
like a few years ago who did hunchback
of notre dame and casted a white
esmeralda
and i got crucified because they casted
a white
woman as esmeralda when that role is
legendarily which also is a whole other
thing
legendarily belongs to the brown and
black community now
it's just a thing you know when they get
used to it but like
stop saying like directors if you're
actually that good and this is coming
from another director directors if
you're actually worth your salt
work with that actor whatever you need
to fit into a contract whatever you need
to make work
work stop using that excuse if you call
yourself woke and say you're an ally to
the bipod community stop stop using that
excuse of like well i just don't think
like understand
how the american society works and move
forward that's all i'm gonna say
somebody else talk
yeah i'll you know i want to talk to the
people that like
are like us um just the idea of like
you know who grew up in these
neighborhoods where like
maybe that dance studio or that
that film studio or whatever the the
theater is like
in the another neighborhood or like
those classes
are too expensive mom can't afford it um
and say you are worth it you have a
story to tell like your
your background is your ex
is your is your talent that
how you grew up your friends you grew up
with everything like that that
it's gonna it's gonna propel you you
have a narrative
that a character is going to like
explode
off the stage off the screen because you
are
who you are whether it's like you
playing
on a playground with your friends
whether you're playing video games
whether you're
in your home writing something those
experiences moments
are that those classes you need to
understand like
there are like those professional
classes sure and they're i'm sure
they're great i've never been a part of
them
um but their
your experience your life experience
your imagination
your if your spiritual god propelling
you through like your growth
and your everything like that or the
universe
guiding you through life that is your
classroom
everything about it is propelling you to
be that character in a show eventually
i don't know maybe maybe i'm like uh off
balance on that but that's how i feel i
feel like nah
i agree i agree with that um
i agree with that and also if you want
something like
bad enough like i think again the
universe whatever like will help you
get to that so if you're like oh i can't
dance or whatever like i feel like
if you really want to like there's so
many dance calls that i should have not
made the show
but i did so like i believe in you you
can do it
that's a big ring
thank you for letting me hijack the
question no not at all no hijacking here
does anybody else have any other things
you want to bring up
talk about some little monday night tea
something that i mean shelby you help me
out with this and then i'll shout out
you know ben hopkins
uh when i'm just starting i i've been
acting for like three years
and one of the things that when i came
to utah was like
being cast in these roles because i felt
like they
wanted a black actor i wanted to be like
i wanted my child to speak for itself
uh i didn't want to be like oh yeah they
got me because like
they couldn't find anyone else or they
wanted to check the box
um and i remember
shelby's like said something like super
like got my ego going i was like
yeah she's like what would you say
you're like
you know get the rules now and then if
they really want you
they'll pay for it i was like okay
um and then ben hopkins just like blew
it out of the park for me he was like
you know i don't think it matters i
think
there's been a history in the industry
of people
of color not getting roles because
they were black or because of the way
the the audience might perceive them uh
and you're getting a chance to change
the narrative
to to be a part of that um
change so you know take it
uh i just like that changed my whole you
know idea i'm not sure if you guys ever
felt that way before but i remember
being like
really scared to go into the auditions
and be like you know if i get this role
is it because of this um but now i just
like you know it doesn't matter
because i'm going to tell my story and
the story of my community
through this character oh yeah
sorry go ahead oh i was just gonna say
absolutely um
same experiences where you know growing
up it was
is did i get this because i'm black or
is it because i'm talented and you know
the older i get it's
no i'm damn talented i've earned this
and to
all of the allies out there were allies
um check yourself if you ever find
yourself saying
or thinking this person got this role
because of race
that that's not allyship that is you
projecting and
it more often than not is a talent thing
yeah like great and to kind of just
try and talk quick just to go back to
the conversation that jersey was just
saying that i had is it jersey
um shortly after i get finished at uvu
about their theater program
dorsey came to my house and we talked
about how to succeed
in the theater program at uvu because we
the two when i was a senior in the
program and dorsey was
um i think it was his first year we were
the only two black students in the
entire program
and so i just sat him down and i just
gave him some pointers i was like when
you get it when you get
to class and they say pull out a
monologue that is this this so
you don't don't feel like you have to
pull out a black monologue
pull out a shakespearean pull out of
whatever you have no bounds
but also like know that you're not going
to do any mainstage shows
about black people so try and fit that
in your education as well i'm just
talking about
having to filter your education to your
experience because
most colleges in utah don't know how to
do that just yet they're still
figuring out how that works which makes
no sense to me but
um yeah that was a conversation which we
do in the black community all the time
like you come over my house i'm gonna
tell you how to help how you can help
yourself and we'll
have dinner and talk and whatever and it
was a very beautiful night that i got to
talk to dorothy but i
i agree actors out there actors
directors hair and makeup designers
whoever you might be in whatever facet
if you feel like you're being taken
advantage of because of your race
bring it up i don't know go to human
resources whatever and don't feel like
you have to stay
either you don't have to put up with
that kind of treatment i know we're all
trying to
fill our bank accounts and put food on
our table but you do not deserve that
kind of treatment you don't deserve to
be a box that gets checked
because you're the one ensemble member
of color you don't deserve that
you deserve so much better also again
get paid it's another thing i told
you which was actually given to me by a
different person
but by the time you get to your senior
college at the least
start getting paid for your work start
getting paid for your work especially if
you have to use your blackness
to relate or bring forth a character
that is
specifically that get paid get paid
that's what we're saying any other
questions anyone talk about anything
else
no we're good i think we're good i think
we can call it um
again percy erica and alex thank you so
much
this was so nice and i love all of your
faces
and this was wonderful and very soul
fulfilling for me so
thank you any last minute comments y'all
want to make any you wanna grab
microphone say anything
no y'all look and leave me like shall we
stop talking someone stop talking
you for tuning in we have so many more
panels to come
um our next panel will be women in
theater which
you know kind of comes as like uh but
women in theater and we talk about
like women the majority of high school
programs theater programs in college are
run by women but
we still have lots of things that we
should make progress on and talk about
so join us next time for the next panel
series
um but for this one we're signing off so
thanks everybody
and we'll see you next time
see now i got myself into this now and
the recording bye
