Hello everyone and welcome
to Library and Archives Canada.
Good afternoon and welcome to
Library and Archives Canada.
Welcome Minister and
distinguished panel members
and our moderator.
I'd like to thank the Honourable
Patty Hajdu for graciously
agreeing to be with us today
and offer special thanks to our
partners at the University of
Ottawa for making this event
possible and for
being here today.
We are very pleased and honoured
to be hosting all of you on this
historic day in the year that
marks the 100th anniversary
of the women gaining the
right to vote in Canada.
As I was sitting thinking
about this historic moment,
I was also thinking about my
daughter who is in university
and voted for the first time
in the Federal election
this past Fall,
and I don't think it would
have even occurred to her
that she wouldn't be
allowed to have the vote.
She just takes it as her right
as a young woman living in
Canada that she can vote and be
part of the political process.
You know, the world is an open
book for young women like her
and we have the efforts of
many dedicated persistent and
hardworking, forward-thinking
women over the past 100 years to
thank for the opportunities that
she and her generation have.
We've come a long way, but
there is more progress to be
made and I'm very excited
about our future and all the
accomplishments that
we have to come.
In addition to the Minister,
today we will hear from three
distinguished faculty members
from the University of Ottawa.
Ruby Heath, Professor of History
and Associate Vice-president
Research at the University of
Ottawa who will be our moderator
today, and she will be
joined by two other speakers.
Caroline Andrew, Professor
Emeritus and Director of the
Centre on Governance at the
University of Ottawa and
Stéphanie Gaudet, Professor in
the Department of Sociology
and Director of the Centre for
Interdisciplinary Research
on Citizenship and Minorities,
again from the
University of Ottawa.
I look forward to hearing
all of your presentations.
A quick word before I welcome
the Minister up to the podium.
I wanted to take a minute
to mention that LAC has been
working with the Canadian Museum
of Human Rights on an exhibit
called "Let Them Howl."
It's a collection of portrait
reproductions to celebrate the
100th year of women suffrage and
you'll see at the back of the
room the 12 reproductions that
will also appear
on the Canal Skateway under
the Bank Street bridge.
So, if you're out skating with
your families be sure to go
and have a look.
Enough from me,
without further ado,
I'd like to invite the
Honourable Patty Hajdu,
Minister of Status of Women
to come to us and speak today.
(applause)
Hon. Patty Hadju:
It's dry everywhere right now.
(laughter)
Interesting story about your
daughter because, actually,
I had two young voters
this year that voted;
my son and my step-daughter.
It was part of the joy, I think,
of this election was seeing
the rejuvenation of youth
and how in-tune youth were
with this election.
It continues as I get mobbed
for selfies and more so,
our Prime Minister of course,
but I even had a young person
ask me for my autograph
the other day which is
hearkening back sometimes.
Thank you so much for the
introduction and before I begin
I would like to recognize and
thank the Algonquin Nation
on whose traditional
territory we're gathering.
It's very much my pleasure to
be here and I'm so honoured
to celebrate this important
milestone with you.
Even a 100 years after women
were first granted the vote
in Manitoba, we know that the
struggle for gender equality
is far from over.
Women still earn less, they hold
fewer senior positions
and they face
ongoing vulnerability
in an often violent society.
And, the poorer the woman,
the more risks she faces
and the harder she must work
to break through the barriers
that are often
invisible to others.
As a single mother who raised
two boys I can tell you
first-hand that the
struggle is real.
In my case, opportunities
like education,
increasingly good
jobs as a result
and access to strong
female mentors
contributed to my success;
and circumstance also
played a large role.
I did not have abusive
parents, I was never hungry,
and I had caregivers that
stressed the importance
of education.
These protective factors
are often invisible,
but they contribute
greatly to better outcomes.
There's still much to do to
create a society where women
are safe and valued equally.
100 years ago in Manitoba,
women fought to have
their voices heard.
Led by Nellie McClung a
five-person delegation met
with the Manitoba Premier
and two years later that
Premier was voted out,
and the new government
led by Tobias Norris
passed legislation that granted
the women the right to vote.
The story is an interesting
one with many twists and turns,
but what it says to
me is two things.
One, we are stronger together.
That collaboration is
essential in reaching our goal,
and secondly, to use the words
of another visionary
Martin Luther King,
"the arc of the moral
universe is long
but it does bend
towards justice."
Over the past few months,
our Prime Minister has
elevated the conversation
and, even more importantly,
taken visible action to
continue that arc of equality.
His decision to appoint a
Cabinet through gender parity
received worldwide immense
positive attention
and his affirmation of
the contributions that
women make to Canada
is steadfast.
As part of that commitment I
am the first full Minister
of Status of Women.
So for me,
this anniversary is not just
a celebration of a moment in time,
it is a chance for
all of us to recommit
to the greater goal
of gender equality.
His voice has amplified the
value of gender equality
but also highlighted the
work that needs to continue.
Before I was elected, I spent my
career working in the community
with organizations that were
focused on improving individual
and community wellness
of those most vulnerable,
including women.
It was in my last role of
running a homeless shelter that
I most poignantly witnessed the
effects that intergenerational
inequality has on
women and girls,
including deep and often
daily victimization.
For me, the issue
of gender equality
is interwoven with independence.
I struggle to put myself
through school as an adult,
often while working
multiple jobs,
and I did this for two reasons:
I wanted to give my
children a way out of poverty
and I wanted to know that
I could rely on myself.
The education I gained
unlocked new career choices
and soon I was
contemplating politics
as a way to further
the social advocacy work
that I was conducting
at a local level.
And here I am, much
to my surprise.
One of the most important
lessons I learned
is that those in power are
often reluctant to change
the way that things are done.
You may have experienced this
reluctance in your own work.
Indicators of the reluctance
range from general protests
of cost or capacity,
to very personal resistance
that focuses on
maintaining control.
Words applied to women fighting
for equity are often negative
with an intent to silence.
Words like "pushy",
"aggressive",
"shrill"
or even worse.
So it is with great respect
that we acknowledge the women
in our past and present
who continue to forge forward
despite often very personal
attacks that they face.
Lest there is anyone who
thinks that the push for gender
equality is solely about
what is just for women.
I remind you that increased
gender equality, and pay,
and opportunity, and leadership
directly and positively affect
the performance of our economy
and creates long lasting,
generational change that
benefits our country in ways
that we sometimes
can not imagine.
We need to continue reaching
for a critical mass
of women leaders, not only in
the corridors of power
but in communities to help shape
Canada in a way that supports
the advancement of women in all
sectors of society.
The important ingredient towards
the increased participation
of women is empowerment.
Empowerment means more than
just having the right to vote
and run for office.
It's about knowing your rights.
It's expecting that
you have the right
to live free from violence.
It's knowing that you
have access to education.
It's getting involved
in your community,
and becoming
financially independent.
Empowerment is having the tools
you need to make better choices
for yourself and your family
and it's essential
for gender equality.
In a couple of months,
we will celebrate
International Women's Day
and this year's theme will
be "Women's Empowerment
Leads to Equality".
Empowerment isn't always
to define so we're asking
Canadians to put a face on it
by using social media
to tag a woman who inspires them
using
#YouAreEmpowerment hashtag.
I would ask all of you to do the
same and from what I see here
it will be easy for you to find
women to tag - and other people,
sorry (laughter) - but we
could start with women.
I was so encouraged and inspired
to be in the presence of such a
diverse and passionate group of
young people and older people;
all who care deeply
about gender equality.
You are the future of equality
and I know that we can count on
each other to keep pushing for
the rights and creating
the supports that women
need and deserve.
And, as we increase women
leaders in our political
systems, on our Boards,
in our communities,
Canada will continue to shift
to a country that supports and
deeply values the advancement of
women in all sectors of society.
Today, we are reminded
that we must continue
what our great-grandmothers
started a century ago.
We have a responsibility to
carry on their important work.
Like our Prime Minister, let's
proudly call ourselves feminists
and look forward to
what we can achieve
in the next 100 years.
Thank you.
(applause)
Ruby Heap:
Thank you so much Ms. Hajdu
for these very inspiring
thoughtful words,
but you are also giving
us an action plan
and things to do
in the coming year.
A good combination.
Thank you again for being here.
I am Ruby Heap from the
University of Ottawa
and I'm very happy
to be the moderator
for the rest of today's event.
I'd like to thank Renée,
where is she, pardon.
For of course being involved in
the organization of this event
and I just like to
point out that in June,
our President Allan Rock signed
a Memorandum of Understanding
with LAC.
The first of its kind
actually in the country.
The idea behind this Memorandum
of Understanding is to
collaborate together
in organizing
great and exciting events and
this is the first one,
and I'm sure there
will be others to come.
I hope we'll see you again
at one of these events.
Thank you again to
Guy Berthiaume
and to our friends at LAC.
I would like to acknowledge
the collaboration of,
he's walking in the
back over there,
François Gagnon who worked very
hard to organize this event
and I truly enjoyed working
with you François.
Now we'll proceed to the
presentation of our
two panelists.
I know that Renée has
introduced them briefly,
I would just like to tell you
a little bit more about them
because we're very proud of
Stéphanie and Caroline
and I'll just add a little bit
more information on them.
Caroline is a Professor Emeritus
and Director of the Centre
on Governance at the
University of Ottawa.
She's a political scientist
by training
and her research interests and
numerous publications center
around the functioning of
partnerships that bring together
community-based
equity-seeking groups,
local social service
delivery agencies,
municipal governments
and university-based
researchers.
She's conducting currently two
projects and participating
to that end with the City
for all women initiatives,
working with the City of Ottawa
and involving the co-production
of the equity and inclusion
lens and youth future.
Professor Caroline Andrew
has been awarded several
prestigious prizes
throughout her
illustrious career
and I want to mention
two of these prizes:
Order of Ottawa in 2013
and the Order of Canada,
most recently, in 2015.
Our next panelist will
be Stéphanie Gaudet.
(French) Stéphanie is the
Director of the Centre
for Interdisciplinary Research
on Citizenship and Minorities,
also known as CIRCEM, which is
one of our most active
research centres at the
University of Ottawa.
She is a Sociology professor at
the School of Sociological
and Anthropological studies.
Her research focuses on new
social and political engagement
practices, social
citizenship and life paths.
She works in collaboration with
numerous civic organizations
aimed at youth and social as
well as political participation.
Professor Gaudet's most recent
publications discuss the various
dimensions of social
participation in Canada,
such as volunteering and
social entrepreneurship.
She has also written on youth,
the entry into adult life
and national policies
and the life course.
I will invite both our
panelists to sit down
and Caroline to begin.
I would ask that you
to pick up your earphones.
When the time has come for
Stéphanie's presentation,
you can put them on immediately
because she will be
presenting in French.
Stéphanie will present in French
so I will invite everybody who
needs to have the translation
to go and get your equipment.
Thank you very much.
Go ahead, Caroline.
Caroline Andrew:
Hello, I'm delighted to be here.
What I really want to talk about
is a 100 years in the struggle
for Women's Rights;
Where Are We Now?
I'm going to start by the
importance of anniversaries.
I was struck when thinking
about what I was going to say,
how important anniversaries are.
They are times that we
celebrate often, anniversaries.
They're also sometimes
times that we mourn,
that we remember
important tragic events,
but they are also, they're
also a time to reflect.
I think that what's good about
the 100-year anniversary
is that we can look back to know
where are we coming from
and time to look forward.
Where are we going and
where do we want to go?
And so, I'm going to talk
about a 100 years ago,
women's right to vote in
Manitoba and of course,
it is - as was mentioned -
it is a formal step to formal
political participation.
But when I started
thinking about it,
I thought that it was also
interesting to think about
what "not voting" meant.
I couldn't decide whether I
should call it the no-right
to vote or the non-right
to vote or whatever,
but I started thinking about why
is that so important to remember
back when women didn't
have the right to vote.
And I think, there are a number
of points that I think
are really significant
to think of.
Clearly, it was women not being
in the public sector
and the Minister pointed
out that it meant that
you actually
belonged to somebody else.
You were an appendage somehow.
In terms of public participation
usually described as being good
in private circumstances, but -
or cooking and washing -
but you were not seen as
being somebody who existed
in the public sector.
You were an appendage to
usually your male spouse.
I think the other thing that is
very interesting to think about
is in that sense is that it was
also a sense that women
really couldn't think about
questions of public concern.
Often when we see women
going into public life,
there is often greater
hesitation where the question
seemed to be theoretic or
"big thinking" that women are
sometimes described
as not being...
I think it's very interesting
to think that the reason we
couldn't vote or the resistance
to thinking that women
could vote, is they probably
couldn't think clearly
about issues, big issues.
They could think maybe
clearly about small things.
There is some wonderful
literature that has been done on
- there's been a lot of
political science literature
that talks about women's
political sense of efficacy
and when the question
is always asked;
can you change
things in politics?
The fact that women said
no more than men did,
until somebody started doing
the analysis of what they said
afterwards and what they
said afterwards was;
of course one single
person can't do it,
but if we all get together
boy could we change things.
The reason the question
was wrongly asked,
because in fact it
does take a lot of people
and what's so great
about the women's movement,
women's liberation is that
we have realized that being
together and in
solidarity got more.
I think it's interesting to
think of all that meant in the
minds of people at that
point in time of why,
what not voting meant.
Now, time to look forward,
the first slide
of "Time to Look Forward".
Women have taken a significant
place in the public sector,
the not-for-profit sector
and the private sector,
but has the full
diversity of women
taken as significant a place?
Indeed, no.
We know it hasn't and we know
that much more needs to be done
and again, the Minister gave us
some very eloquent sense of the
context, specific context, and
how specific context means that
there are specific groups
within that community
who had been more
distanced from opportunity.
We know that we have to
work very hard and in very
context-based places to
understand what kinds of
programs supports, what can we
do in order to make sure that
the diversity of the Canadian
society is a diversity all over.
Indeed, that was one of the
lovely things about the Cabinet
which, 50% that sounds good, but
I think that we got a long way
to go moving forward.
A long way to go.
A lot of energy!
What is good is that
there is a lot of energy.
There is a lot of people who are
thinking about it and trying to
do work, but we have a lot that
needs to continue to go
if we want to get the kind of
diversity that exists
in the Canadian society and is
going to grow, and grow,
and grow into all the
sectors of Canadian society.
This is "Time to
Look Forward Too".
There's much more that needs to
be done about ending violence
against women.
Canada has done more than
many other countries,
but there is so much more
that needs to be done.
The more we do, the more we
realize how much there is to do.
I think that that's,
again, the more energy we have
the better it is
because we can find
we can go further and further
into the questions of;
what are
the repercussions of that,
how can we build programs at
different points
in people's lives so that they
get over that bump,
or they can move
onward from that.
We have done more than a
lot of other countries,
but there is still
so much do be done.
Then my last slide is "Time
to Look Forward Three".
I think it's also time for
Canada and it's a wonderful
sense to get back
out into the world.
We've been sort of not so
prominent lately in the world
and not so well-liked.
I think it came to a surprise
to a lot of us when we saw the
pictures - or the repercussions
of the summer's events with the
refugee crisis - was suddenly to
realize that people didn't much
like us internationally.
And, Canadians have always - our
great myth of Lester Pearson and
etcetera, etcetera - we always
thought that everyone loved us
internationally.
We were a small country,
not much resources,
but we were really loved.
Then we discovered this summer
that we were not really loved
and we'd been doing a lot of
irritating things to people.
I think one of the lovely things
now in looking forward to
the next two years, the next 10
years, the next 100 years is;
it's time to get back to
walk-the-talk
of women's rights internationally.
I've got three ideas, not very
new, not very revolutionary,
but important.
One, it's got to be an important
- it's got to go back to being
important, and a really
important component
of Canadian aid.
It can't just be
tick off the box.
It's got to be
really - think "Okay,
how can we work in different
contexts, to really work,
and what makes sense to them is
the next step to making women's
rights" - and to make
Canada known as being,
thinking intelligently and
contextually about improving
the condition of women across
our Canadian aid program.
Two, obviously we've go to do
much more again internationally
on violence against women.
Again, this is a huge question.
When we look at the places where
there is - we are beginning to
know - but again this
takes us doing intelligent,
contextually smart decisions
on how to play a role
internationally.
How to play a role with
the United Nations?
How to play a role with
individual countries?
How to create an
intelligent plan?
And third, we've got to
remember that educating girls
and women is
extremely important.
Again, when we look across the
world there's lots of places
where there needs to be a real
emphasis on making sure
that we are educating
women and girls.
I think both girls and
women, we must not stop,
educating young girls
is really important,
but we must
continue the education
all through people's lives.
We've got to start them off
right with good daycare
and good, young education,
but we've got to continue
that through the life cycle.
That's my very brief comments on
why it's exciting to think about
anniversaries because it does
give you a chance to think;
OK, we've got another 100
years coming up to us,
lets see what we can do.
Thank you very much.
(applause)
Hello, I'm
going to speak very slowly
for the translators at the back.
Thank you to Caroline
for her inspiring words.
Thank you to Madam Minister.
Today we celebrate
the 100th anniversary
of women's right to vote
and I want to acknowledge
the third month
of our equal
representation government.
I want to acknowledge this
because it is a historical event
of equal importance
to the 100th anniversary
of women's right to vote.
Today, I won't necessarily talk
about women's participation
in politics, I will talk about
another form of political
participation and that is the
reason why my first slide
is entitled "Evolving from the
political toward politics".
In every day life we all
function within the political
realm because we think and act
on issues that concern the just
and the well-being of the
people that surround us,
such as our family,
our community and,
on a greater scale, society.
Traditionally, women have played
social roles such as mothers,
helpers, educators
and caregivers,
and that's the reason why
women's social participation
in the political realm has
always been extremely important.
Unfortunately, even today, there
is a lack of recognition
of this significant contribution
to the political realm.
Therefore, this contribution
to the political realm
which takes the form of helping,
supporting, giving time to
our social circle, to militant
political volunteer groups
represents the first
step in a path of social
and political commitment.
You can not
become a female politician
from one day to the next.
You have to build a path.
A life path that brings
you toward politics,
but the majority of Canadian
women act within politics
every day and it is extremely
important to acknowledge this
because this experience
within politics,
it is an experience
of diversity,
an experience of discussion,
of making democratic decisions,
of empowerment and of
solving collective issues.
That being said, I want to
emphasize the importance
of social participation
before getting
to political participation.
Lets first examine what
sources of inequality shape
these barriers or, rather, allow
further social participation
in the Canadian population.
What we know from
scientific literature
is that people who
are involved in society,
are involved because they
were approached to do so.
Therefore, these people have
rich and diverse social networks
where there are opportunities
to get involved.
Having a school-aged child
is also a characteristic
of Canadians who are
actively involved,
because school is a type
of social organization
that frequently
approaches parents
and when we look at who
participates in the schools,
often times it's the mothers.
Age is also an extremely
important factor because
what we are noticing is that in
the Canadian population,
for the past 20 years,
as people get older,
the more they participate.
And young people, groups of
young people are reducing their
rate of social participation
from one cohort to the next.
If less young people from
one generation participate,
the less likely they will be to
participate as they get older
therefore, if there are less
young people getting involved
we can see that, at a
generational level,
there will be repercussions
in the long-run.
The immigrant status is also a
barrier to social participation.
You can imagine why: different
language, physiognomy,
culture, can be barriers.
The social class can also be a
factor that can act as a barrier
or an incentive.
By social class, for example,
we can also divide further
with income, level of education,
employment status.
And now I'm going to present
some of my data from my research
focusing on social
participation.
Since we are celebrating
women's participation,
I think it's important to
acknowledge that
within the Canadian population
for the past 20 years,
the people who are
socially involved,
the group of people whose
social participation,
as much in militant
political groups,
community or support groups,
are women between the ages
of 50 to 64.
There is a common thread and
I think it's important to
acknowledge this because women
are extremely involved citizens
and it's important to
recognize their contribution.
I would also like to point
out that their contribution is
consistent despite the fact that
the rate of social participation
in Canada has decreased
over the past 20 years,
which shows that women
in this age category
are always very
socially involved.
Unfortunately, we notice that
over the course of the last
20 years the participation of
women of child-bearing age,
meaning women between
the ages of 25 and 49,
that specific group,
has decreased.
We could think that the
issues linked to balancing the
work-family dynamic explains
the decrease in participation
because over the past 20 years,
the number of women
in the workforce full-time
has increased.
When we look at factors that
can represent a challenge,
or say a factor that can reduce
the rate of participation,
it's the fact
of being an immigrant,
more particularly,
a female immigrant.
When I look at the average rates
of social participation in the
Canadian population, when I look
at the rates of participation in
general, what I notice is that
the people living in Canada that
show a higher rate of
participation are women with
school-aged children.
And this group, and here
you can see on the right,
I have circled it, I am very
sorry for the communications
people, I didn't have time to
create very appealing graphics.
So, they're a little
bit scientific,
a little more difficult to read.
But, on the right we can see
the right-side column:
it shows women with children.
At the other end
of the spectrum,
we notice that people who have
the lowest rate of participation
are women with
school-age children.
So, for certain
Canadians born here,
for women born in Canada
children are facilitators,
vehicles of social participation
while for women who
are not born in Canada,
school-age children represent -
we can imagine that
it is more difficult for them
because they might
have more responsibilities,
difficulties
leaving their home,
difficulties learning the
language, for example.
When looking at
social inequalities,
especially where it
concerns social classes,
we always want to know
what the main influence is.
Is it education?
Is it income?
Or is it multiple sources of
individual characteristics?
And, what I was able to see
through my analysis is that age
remains the most influential
factor on the level of social
participation, so once again,
the more we grow older,
the more we participate,
therefore it's rather positive.
But what I found to be extremely
interesting, in all cases,
from a political point of view,
is that social relationships
are more influential than
income or education.
What does it mean?
We know that the
more money we have,
the more education we have,
the more our social
relationships are diverse.
That is obviously linked, but
what I notice is that social
relationships are more
influential and that it is much
easier to take action with
regard to social relationships,
to diversify our
social networks,
than to make changes to
income or, for example,
education in a short time frame.
What are our challenges?
I think that one of the
challenges for women in general
is finding a balance
between their work
and their personal life.
I think that's a challenge for
a mother with young children,
but also for women who
take care of the elderly.
It's also important to note that
there are many young people that
are taking care of the elderly.
Between
the ages of 14 and 25,
one Canadian out of four who
takes care of an elderly person,
30% are women.
We have to realize that there
are many young people who are
taking care of individuals
with certain problems
whether related
to aging or health problems.
So supporting and recognizing
women's informal social
participation through which
they will gain experience,
empowerment, to one day move
forward into a more
political participation.
Supporting youth participation
because it is the age group
that participates the least
in formal organizations,
and immigrant women.
I think that helping citizen
organizations be open to
diversity based on social
relationships, gender, age,
ethnicity and social class would
be an important factor
because then, we
could have more of an influence
on the diversity
of social networks.
Thank you for your attention
and I'll give the floor to Ruby.
Ruby: I'd like to thank all
of you for being here and
I'd like to again, ask you to
applaud our two great panelists.
(applause)
Renée thank you very much
for coordinating everything,
and to François who is
at the back over there.
And I know the Minister
and her aides or entourage,
they're gone but if somebody
could transmit to her how much
we enjoyed meeting her.
She is really a wonderful woman
and her own life story
was quite inspiring.
And if you can tell her that
each of us in our own way are
ready to help her and support
her during her mandate.
Can I count on you for
transmitting the message?
I'm seeing the photo of Thérèse
Casgrain there and I invite you
to go and look at these
wonderful pictures.
She was a role model for
my mother, I'm from Quebec,
a Quebecer from Montreal, and I
remember when I was younger
of course she said "Ah
madame Casgrain,
madame Casgrain" who was
struggling for women's vote
in Quebec and she was also
in the peace movement.
She was a role model for my
mother which shows how important
role models are and I just want
to quote a role model for me
is Ursula Franklin.
The great woman scientist,
pacifist and feminist who wrote
a piece in the 70s and 80s and
it was called - she was talking
to one of her students, she was
an engineering professor at the
University of Toronto, and her
student came to her and she
said; Madam Franklin how can I
be an engineer and a feminist?
She couldn't reconcile the
two, it really scared her,
and Ursula said you know, please
don't leave your feminism at the
laboratory's door because, of
course she was an engineering
student, and so she has been a
source of inspiration for me and
I think we all need role models.
I have here all sorts of things
written that I will put in order
on my computer and being asked,
at universities you wouldn't
believe how this has been
the beginning of many
of my colleagues' -
and I can say maybe myself,
an attraction to
administrative jobs.
We never thought, you know,
people would be interested in us
or we could do it,
and you know what?
Caroline is the one who asked
me about Women's Studies,
I remember vividly, she said
do you want to take over as
Director of the program?
And I said, me?
My god I couldn't believe this,
and I thought about it
and I said yes.
You shaped my career madame,
and I haven't looked back.
Thank you once again,
have a nice evening,
and I hope that we can meet
again to discuss
and continue the conversation.
Thank you. Bye.
(applause)
