Coming up on American
Black Journal,
a longterm study
on mortality rates
among seniors in Detroit
reveal some startling facts.
We're gonna talk
about the report
and the urgent call for action.
Plus a closer look at the
history of sundown towns
and their anti-black policies.
That's all next on
American Black Journal.
It starts now.
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♪♪
Welcome to American
Black Journal.
I'm Stephen Henderson,
a report from the
Detroit area agency
on aging reveals
alarming statistics
about mortality rates for older
people in the Detroit area.
The report is called
dying before their time
and it analyzes data collected
over a 19 year period
in Detroit and eight
neighboring cities.
The research shows
that the death rate
for residents aged 60
to 74 is 48% higher
than the rest of Michigan.
And for people aged 50 to 59,
they're dying at
a rate 122% higher
than other areas in the state.
I talked with the agency
CEO, Ronald Taylor,
about the reasons behind the
disproportionate death rates
and what can be done
to change the numbers.
Ronald Taylor, welcome to
American Black Journal,
Well thank you so much
for having me, Stephen.
So I found this report
really interesting
and not in a good way.
The numbers in the report
are just harrowing.
I wanna start our
conversation there.
These are gaps that
I think most people
are not aware of number one,
but that point to
incredible danger
for people of color and
African Americans in particular
and older African
Americans especially
to just spend some
time talking through
what you found here.
Yeah, this is the third edition
or the third iteration of the
down before your time report
that was initially
completed in 2002
by the Detroit Area
Agency on aging.
And when that report was
initially commissioned
one of the things in which
we were curious about,
and I had to get my
predecessor, Paul Bridgewater,
a great deal of credit
for having the foresight
to commission such a report,
but we were concerned
about the out migration
of the population.
And what we found in
the study of the report
was very startling.
And the fact that our population
had excess mortality rates,
which were two to two
and a half times greater
than their cohorts within the
rest of the state of Michigan.
And it and as you
stated, Stephen,
this is troubling
that after 19 years
of longitudinal data,
that we're still seeing
that some of the same trends
are in place as related
to we have folks
that are 50 to 59
that are passing away
at much, much greater rates
than their counterparts
in the rest of the state.
And then also the
number of individuals
that are dealing with what
we call chronic illnesses
and especially dealing with
three or more chronic illnesses.
We're talking about close to
40% of our senior population
that is very startling
and it's very troubling.
Talk about some of
the risk factors
that that help
produce these numbers.
What is it that
we're dealing here?
I would say some
of the risk factors
is there's a buzz word
out in the industry now
and what we call social
determinants of health,
and the social
determinants of health,
essentially take a look
at those conditions
or those factors that can
influence the health outcomes
of an individual or community.
And so when you take a look,
as far as the education
or the food availability
or access to healthcare,
also, you take a look at
as far as the opportunities
for employment,
environmental concerns,
those are all
factors that impact,
you know, folks generally
say that you could tell
by a person's zip code, what
their health outcomes will be.
And those are some
of the factors
that go into that consideration.
Right now, of course,
we're dealing with a
once a century perhaps
kind of health crisis
that of course makes
everything more urgent
and makes everything
more critical.
Talk about the effect of the
pandemic on these numbers
that you're seeing in this
there's longitudinal survey.
I think the COVID-19
or this pandemic
in which we're dealing with
has really pulled the scab
off the wound in many ways,
or is really a placed
a magnifying glass
on the conditions of
those communities of color
and especially within the
African American community.
And I say that because we're
dealing with the community
in many ways that are dealing
with this all pandemic
as related to the
health disparities
or the chronic illnesses in
which folks are dealing with.
And when you layer
that on top of
what I would say would
be some systemic issues
that my community has faced.
It truly has magnified
all the various injustices
and disparities in which
unfortunately we're still
having to deal with today.
And of course, in response
to George Floyd's murder,
the highlight on
systemic racism,
Black Lives Matter movement
really brings into focus
some of these things that
you're talking about,
the fact that if you are
born black in this country,
if you are over the age
of 50 in this country,
it just looks different.
Everything you're dealing
with is sort of processed
through the lens
of bias and racism
and that has consequences
for the people who are a part
of those communities for us.
That's correct.
That's correct.
You know, I've
been thinking about
as related to my own upbringing
and some of the things
in which my grandmother
who was born in Mississippi
and just some of her
concerns and fears,
and then also some of the
stories in which she shared
about the opportunity to
receive healthcare services
and how it really wasn't there
and how they had to
really travel around
to get those services.
And, you know, you take a
look as far as growing up
and becoming a little
older as far as a teen
and you see some of your parents
not parents, but
your, your loved ones.
Aunts and uncles and others,
and they're passing
away at early ages.
And whether it's because
of hypertension or diabetes
or whatever that
condition may be like,
and we come in
and then we're at this
particular point in stage,
and the fact that we're still
dealing with these issues
at that same level as
when I was a child,
it's kind of alarming.
And it seems like it's a
face is being placed upon
these chronic illnesses
and recognition is there
that the social
determinants health
and has an impact on
the chronic conditions
in which our community faces,
but the gap in regards to
addressing these issues
are still great.
Yeah, I mean, again,
those numbers just blow
your mind when you know,
how dramatic they are.
I wanna spend the rest of the
time talking about solutions
and things we ought to
be really focused on
as ways to move the needle
both in the short term
and then of course,
as you point out longitudinally,
right across time,
how we get to close that
gap with other communities.
Yeah, there's a number of,
I think, as you indicated,
short term and long
term action steps
that we'll probably
have to be pursued.
And I believe the first step
and is one in which
this community
and other places throughout
the country have tried before,
but we have to continue
to take a swing at the bat
as related to addressing it,
but we have to collectively
come together as a community.
And we have to collectively
come together across industries
and across sectors to really
come up with solutions,
to improve our
availability of food,
to improve the
access to healthcare,
to improve the
employment opportunities,
to improve the
environmental factors,
to improve the, you know,
just the various factors that
enhance the quality of life.
And that's going
to be a collective
and collaborative effort.
But one thing in which
I will say Stephen,
is I also believe it has
to be an intentional effort
and it has to be intentional
in fact, that it
has to be a priority
and something that is...
addressed on a continuous basis.
So that's one of the aspects.
And so that would entail
that we would have
to improve the stock
as far as healthcare
professionals
within the community
and access to care.
But some of the things also in
which we're taking a look at
is that we also need to
do provide activities
and services and
awareness type of programs
that addresses the lifespan.
It really does us no good
to try to address
the chronic illness
when the person
who turns 50 or 60,
we need to be looking
downstream in the lifespan
and raising awareness
to our youth and to our,
to our young adults,
as related to these are some
of the preventative things
that can take place or
that you should be adapting
to have an enhanced
quality of life.
The second part of it is
that we're taking a look in,
or what we're proposing
is that we really need to
provide additional supports
and resources to caregivers
and reason in which,
and also grandparents
raising grandchildren.
And the reason in which we say
that we need to provide those
supports to our caregivers
is because informal caregiving,
it is the backbone of
our healthcare system.
And we need to
provide those supports
to those individuals that are
really provide the services
and the support to individuals
dealing with chronic illnesses.
The third aspect of things
is that we really
believe that funding,
more funding needs
to be allotted
to what we call human
community based services.
And essentially what
that entail is that
we can probably
address more services
or more lives by providing
services in the community.
And the other aspect
of that equation
though Stephen is that,
we need to get the resources
to those community
based organizations
that people of color
will probably trust
and probably respond to
as related to
addressing their needs.
And then the fourth aspect
that I would say really
needs to be taken a look at
is that most of our
allocation methodologies
from a federal and
a state perspective
they're provided
based upon population
and some other factors,
the factor of need really
needs to be brought
into the discussion
and brought into the equation
when allocating resources
from the federal
and state levels.
And now look at sundown towns.
That's the phrase you
use to describe cities
that historically did not
permit African-Americans
to live in their communities.
Black people were told
to leave by sundown
or face possible
violence or arrest.
One Detroit's Will
Glover spoke with
Bridge's Detroit's
Bryce Huffman,
about his report on
the Detroit suburbs
that are wrestling
with the legacy
of being sundown towns
with anti-black policies.
What is a sundown town?
And you know, why did you
decide to write this article?
So a sundown towns
are towns where either
one paper in a law or
in housing contracts,
black people basically
weren't allowed to live there.
They're called sundown towns
because oftentimes black
people were allowed
to work there usually in
butler or nanny capacities,
but they weren't allowed
to own homes there.
So if they were
there after sundown,
they would either be escorted
out by law enforcement,
escorted out by the threat
of violence, by an angry mob,
or actually faced real violence.
And I wanted to write about
this because a lot of the time
when we talk about racism
and our country's
history with it,
we don't talk about how
racism looked in the North.
We often think about, you know,
the dogs and the fire hoses
and the civil rights
movements down South.
But we don't think
about the fact that,
you know, as me,
I'm someone who lives in Detroit
about a mile from Grosse Pointe.
We don't talk about the fact
that if this was 60 years ago,
me living a mile from Grosse
Pointe would mean my life
had all sorts of factors
that I would have to think
about on a daily basis.
Right and so just, I guess,
to explain to some people,
what is the difference between
what we're talking about
when it comes to sundown
towns versus segregation,
or as you referenced the racism
that people were
facing down South?
So I think the big difference
is the legalities, right?
So sundown towns didn't
all have the same laws
and same practices,
but what kind of gives
them the term sun downtown
is that somewhere they were
explicitly being anti-black,
whether it was in
housing policies,
for instance, a lot
of the Grosse Pointe
and a lot of Detroit suburbs
had it in housing contracts
that you weren't allowed
to sell this home
to a black family,
even, you know, when black
families could afford
to buy the house, or other times
there were laws literally saying
black people aren't allowed
to be here after dark.
So when we think
about segregation,
a lot of the time
we're talking about
sometimes accidental
segregation,
where people lived
in these areas,
'cause they came in groups
when they migrated to
Detroit and migrated North.
But with the sun downtown,
it's very purposeful.
It is very much so if you are
a white middle class family,
we are gonna give you this
house even if the black family
that wants to buy it
can pay us more money.
What policies bolstered the
ability for sundown to exist?
What laws were, you
know, assisting in that,
you know, oppression.
Red lining is
certainly one practice
that contributed to it.
But I think the one that we
really don't talk about as much
is lending policies.
Like I said,
even when black families could
afford to buy these homes,
banks wouldn't give them loans,
not to live in these
communities anyway.
And when you think about the way
that wealth is generated
over generations,
home ownership plays a
big factor into that.
So what essentially
happened in Detroit
and a lot of other
places up North
is you'll take a look
at the urban core
and you'll see that, okay,
there's all of these black
families that live in this area.
And then you look at
the more affluent areas,
right outside of where they live
and black people weren't
allowed to generate wealth
in areas that didn't already
have all of these problems,
that big cities had.
So it's just one
contributing factor
to the chronic
segregation we see.
The current economic
divide that we see,
and quite frankly,
the current racist attitudes
of a lot of people in America.
So obviously today,
black people aren't
being escorted
to the edge of town
by police officers,
or, you know, being ran
out by an angry mob.
But how are some of the
remnants of this sundown towns
and that segregation still,
you know, with us today?
So the one way that I
saw it a lot growing up,
especially when I
got to high school
and started driving to
hang out with friends
that lived in some
of these suburbs
was racial profiling in police.
And it's something that
people really pushed
back on this idea,
but it's actually quite simple.
If you live in a suburb that
is 90 plus percent white,
and you see a group of black
kids driving through it,
the police automatically
look at them as outsiders.
People who don't live here,
what are they doing
here this late at night?
Why are they driving, you
know, in groups of young teens?
You know, and I think
that actually is
where a lot of the implicit
bias against young black men
particularly comes from when
it comes to law enforcement.
It's you're in an
area that historically
you have never been in,
what are you doing here?
It automatically
brings up suspicion.
And instead of, you know,
seeing me as someone who's
going home after
visiting a friend,
I'm now someone who's seen as
a suspect in some wrongdoing.
So how are these suburbs
changing their
respective histories?
How are they working to,
you know, desegregate
to actually make places
as welcoming as
some would claim.
Like, have there been
any tangible results
that you came across while you
were putting this together?
Yeah, so the
tangible results part
is kind of up in the air,
depending on who you are.
If you're a very cynical old
Detroiter you're probably like,
"Yeah, they're not
really doing enough."
And I would probably agree
with that perspective
that they're not doing enough.
But what you're
seeing is efforts
to really educate
people on the history
and efforts to really have
people in these communities
talk about race and
talk about racism
and look at all right,
why does our neighborhood
look this way?
I talked to a woman
from Grosse Pointe,
which is probably one of the
more notoriously racist places
in the area.
Not that they were
anything special.
Like when you look
at their history,
they weren't doing anything
way worse than other places.
But when Detroiters talk about
where not to drive at night,
you know, Grosse Pointe's
probably one of the first places
that comes to mind,
but I talked to
people who live there
and they say that a lot of
the effort isn't necessarily
on the city officials or
the elected officials,
because they're so busy
with just kind of the
general day to day operations
of the city and
keeping things going
that a lot of the time falls
on the neighborhood groups
to be more welcoming
and to call out racism
when they see it.
When I was a kid in the
2004 election was happening,
you would drive
through Grosse Pointe
and you would just see Bush,
Cheney sign left and right.
And you would almost exclusively
see white homeowners.
Now, you know, it's still
very majority white,
but you see kind of an influx
of young black homeowners
in these places
that historically
they wouldn't have
been allowed to be.
And I kind of think of it
as like the domino effect.
You know, when one,
all white suburb starts
to integrate more,
it starts to happen around.
So as far as efforts,
some cities like Ferndale
have really changed
their reputation.
Ferndale to many
people's surprise
when I published the
piece, was a sundown town
but now Ferndale is seen
as this very progressive
liberal place
where everyone is
accepted in large part
because their acceptance
of the LGBTQ community.
And I don't know about you,
but when I see a pride flag,
I feel a lot safer
because I'm like, I'm
saying they like gay people
there's chance they
don't hate black people.
(laughs)
Its not always true.
Just a little bit--
It makes me feel
just a little bit more
comfortable, you know.
Absolutely.
So, yeah, I think a
lot of these suburbs
have really changed
their reputation
just with the influx of
new people coming in.
And finally, today,
we're gonna leave
you with a song
to uplift your spirits a bit
during these challenging times.
The song is titled
"America coming together"
and it's written and
performed by Erica Johnson.
She's the granddaughter
of the late entertainer,
Jackie Wilson.
Stay well and we'll
see you next time.
♪ America, we must
come together ♪
♪ If we want change
is for the better ♪
♪ No one man stands alone
♪ But united in strength
we can move on ♪
♪ From a land filled
with strangers ♪
♪ To one full of friends
♪ And inside of everyone of us
♪ Is where it begins
♪ We must decide to love
♪ Decide to win
♪ We must stand up
and be counted ♪
♪ And only then
