[MUSIC PLAYING]
[APPLAUSE]
MICHAEL SMITH: Thank you.
MAGGIE STANPHILL: Yeah.
So to kick off, you've had
a pretty amazing career.
We were just chatting,
and it's been
a couple decades of hard work.
I'd love to hear
a little bit more
about that journey, kind of
spanning e-commerce to news,
to gaming, and the road
that took you to Calm.
MICHAEL ACTON SMITH: Yes.
So thank you for
having me, everybody.
Wonderful to be here.
I'm the co-founder of
Calm, not the sole founder.
I have a wonderful
co-founder called
Alex Tew, who we
set the business up
together about seven years ago.
And so, yeah, my journey
before that was very different.
I just love startups, and
business, and technology,
and finding ways to have fun
and do good using technology.
So if we go way back
to the beginning,
I was one of those
very annoying kids
that was always coming up with
harebrained business ideas.
And one of my first
was selling rocks
outside my house in the UK,
a very unsuccessful business.
The margins were amazing.
Cost of goods was zero, but
I learned a pretty valuable
lesson, that you have to add a
little bit of something extra
to make people buy.
So that was an
early tricky time.
Then I went to university.
And back in '98, which I think
was the time that Google was
set up, just as the internet
was kind of bubbling away,
me and a buddy
thought it would be
amazing to create an
online site selling
toys, and gadgets, and games.
And these products were so
hot they were bursting out
of the boxes, literally.
That was our logo.
So we called it Hotbox.
And we registered the
domain hotbox.co.uk.
And in our naivete,
we didn't think
it mattered that hotbox.com was
one of the world's largest porn
sites.
MAGGIE STANPHILL: Oh, boy.
MICHAEL ACTON SMITH:
I see a few heads
nodding in the background.
That was definitely a problem.
Because my mom was so proud
that I'd got off the sofa
and launched a business,
she'd tell all her friends
to check out Michael's
new company, Hotbox.
MAGGIE STANPHILL: Oh, boy.
MICHAEL ACTON SMITH:
So they thought
I was a porn baron
for a little while.
So we had to change
the name to Firebox.
And I learned the value of
good domain names, which
is why we love Calm so much.
Calm.com, such a beautiful,
simple, universal word.
And then before Calm, the
other business I set up
was a games company.
And we created an online
world for children
called Moshi Monsters,
which was a bit like a web
version of Tamagotchi.
And kids could adopt a monster,
go on adventures, play games.
And it grew rapidly with
tens of millions of users.
We made books, and
stories, and movies.
And we thought we were
going to be the next Disney,
but we learned another
valuable lesson
that the kid space
moves very quickly.
You can be red hot one
minute, and not the next.
So that was a very
stressful time.
We had to lay a
lot of people off.
Revenues collapsed.
And it was during that period
that I discovered meditation.
And it's the single
most valuable skill
I've learned in my life.
And it changed the way I see
everything-- my perspective,
my awareness, the way I
interact with other people.
So that was a real
tipping point.
And so with Alex,
we set up Calm.
MAGGIE STANPHILL: It's amazing.
Yeah, I can see the journey
to acquiring those meditation
skills after going through
a big change like that.
So Calm, obviously, is
very different from some
of those other business
models that you described.
MICHAEL ACTON SMITH: Yes.
MAGGIE STANPHILL:
And what I've heard
is that it is being held the
mental health unicorn, which
is quite a statement.
And seeing as I care a lot
about people's well-being,
I'd love to hear
a little bit more
about how you've built
such a sustainable business
model around also supporting
people's well-being.
MICHAEL ACTON SMITH: Yes.
So one of the things we're proud
of is the two aspects to Calm.
One is that it's genuinely
doing something very positive
for the world, helping people
understand their own minds,
helping them sleep
better, helping reduce
anxiety and stress.
And I think we've had
about a million five star
reviews in the app stores,
which is pretty incredible.
So much variety in how
different people use it,
from little kids, to
stressed executives,
and everything in between.
So I think that's
amazing and wonderful.
But when you can
marry that positivity
with a really strong
economic engine,
I think that's when
the magic happens.
And meditation and
mindfulness has been around
for thousands of
years, but it hasn't
had as wide distribution
as we think it should.
It's such a life-changing skill.
So when you can create a
sustainable, successful
business model, when you can
create a product that genuinely
changes people's lives, they're
very happy to pay for it.
You have a very
delightful transaction,
and everyone is happy.
So the margins are very high
in a business like Calm,
because we create the
content ourselves.
It's a reliable, recurring
subscription revenue stream.
I love a good
subscription business.
And again, when the
audience is happy,
when the business
is happy, then you
can create something
extraordinary.
So we have this great
positive flywheel spinning,
and we became the world's
first mental health
unicorn with a billion
dollar valuation.
And we used to tell
investors in the early days
that we think we could
build one of the defining
brands of this generation.
Could this be one of the most
valuable and meaningful brands
in the world?
And I think people would raise
their eyebrows and kind of roll
their eyes a little
bit, but I think
that's becoming, hopefully,
less kind of crazy
as the business grows.
And we think there's
huge potential upside
in growth from here.
So we have 2 million
paying customers,
but we don't see why this
couldn't get to 100 million
plus.
Could this be as
valuable a service
as a Netflix or a Spotify?
So that's our longer
term ambition.
MAGGIE STANPHILL: Very cool.
Thank you so much
for sharing that.
That value exchange
is really impressive.
And one of the
things that we really
rooted our beliefs on at Google
is really focusing on the user,
and all else will follow.
That's kind of a mission
statement of sorts
that we've followed for years.
And when I was looking at the
book, which is very enjoyable,
a great bedtime read,
beautifully designed as well,
I was struck by the fact
that you paid close attention
to usage of your app.
You saw 11:00 PM
spikes, and that
was kind of a turning point for
you in terms of your strategy.
And so I'm curious to hear
a bit more about that data
to product feedback
loop that you follow.
And we're a bunch
of product people
here, so I think we would really
benefit from learning more.
MICHAEL ACTON SMITH: Yes.
So like Google, we're
very user-centric.
But Calm started as
a meditation app.
That was the skill that we
wanted to teach and share.
We wanted to make it
simple, and accessible,
and distribute it far and wide.
And as you say, we
noticed something
really interesting in the
data a couple of years
ago when we were looking at
time for different time zones
around the world,
because people use Calm
in 190 different countries.
We saw it was just before
11:00 PM, about 10:45 at night,
there was just this big
spike every evening.
And we were
scratching our heads.
And we recognized
that it was people
that were using Tamara's
voice to help them drift off.
Everyone's mind is racing
and whirring away at night,
so they just love to
listen to her voice.
But internally we
were like, well,
that's not how you're
meant to meditate.
You're not supposed to lie down.
And it's not meant
to send you to sleep.
So instead of trying to fit
our world onto our audience,
we stepped back and went, well,
maybe there's a signal here.
What if we were to
reinvent the bedtime story?
We've all loved having stories
read to us when we were kids.
Why should that stop
now we're grown-ups?
So we created these
stories that were
kind of part
meditations, part poems.
Nothing too dramatic
happens in them.
It's not like a traditional
three-act structure.
But we mixed in sound effects.
We mixed in music.
We looked very carefully,
once we launched them,
when there were drop-offs, when
people would stop listening.
And we noticed things
like if we mentioned food,
people would kind of
sort of jolt awake.
I think a lot of people
misunderstand these sleep
stories that we've created.
They think they're
just boring tales,
but actually the magic is
that they start in a really
engaging interesting way so
your mind is connected to it,
but then slowly, imperceptibly
as the story goes along,
it becomes more soporific.
The pauses become longer.
And before you know it,
you've fallen asleep.
So we put this live.
It was a bit of a test.
And we've had almost 250
million of these stories
listened to now.
And it's as big a part of
the app as the meditation.
So it's been a huge hit.
MAGGIE STANPHILL: Very cool.
Thank you.
So the book is a huge product
of all this sleep research.
And I would love to
hear a little bit more
about what has made the most
difference in your own sleep
habits.
MICHAEL ACTON SMITH: Wow.
Well, before I set
up Calm, I was a kind
of stereotypical,
frenzied entrepreneur
trying to squeeze the juice out
of every minute of every day.
I'd go to bed trying to
get a last few emails out.
The number of nights
where I'd wake up
with the phone sort of
glued to my face was many.
And so I think developing
a meditation practice,
being a bit more thoughtful and
mindful, instead of mindless,
about how I use my devices
has made a massive difference
in my life.
So with sleep in
particular, I try not to--
I don't do this
every single night--
but I try not to
use my phone in bed.
I put it on airplane mode.
I think one of
the other big ones
is mornings are
incredibly important.
That is the foundation,
the start to our day.
But I read a study recently
that said something--
I think it's over 50% of
people, the first thing
they do when they wake up
is reach for their phone
and immediately just get
sucked into how many likes
they got on their
last Instagram post
or checking out crazy
stuff going on Twitter.
And as soon as you
do that, you're
sucked into a
different mind frame.
What I try and do is
not to turn my phone
on until I've left the house.
And that sort of 30, 40
minutes in the morning
when you just come
up from sleep,
you think about what
you dreamed about, you
scribble in your notebook, I
think it changes everything.
And it gives you a really
powerful foundation
for the rest of the day.
And then as soon as I get into
a coffee shop or get to work,
and [MAKES EXPLOSION SOUND]
the digital tsunami hits me.
But you just have
that little bit
of breathing space that
helps set everything up.
MAGGIE STANPHILL:
That's awesome.
It's very helpful to hear how
you've made that journey, given
your hectic schedule
and the fact
that tech's been persistent in
your career for two decades,
it sounds like.
And the notion that
I presented earlier
around the digital well-being
initiative's mission
around intentionality
is just that,
having a very kind of
presence of mind with respect
to how you're using tech.
So switching gears, your
point about getting to sleep
and setting your mind at
ease came up in the book.
And one of the
things I observed,
which I try to practice myself,
is journaling and gratitude
practice.
I'd love to hear
a little bit more.
If, indeed, there are
folks in the audience--
I might be one of
them-- who sometimes
has occasional insomnia,
what are the top three
recommendations that you've
seen really work for people?
MICHAEL ACTON
SMITH: Well, I think
journaling is having a real
moment, which is great.
It's valuable to take
out the stuff that's
bubbling and rumbling
around your head
and put it down onto paper.
So I think doing that as
a practice in the evening,
I think, is very valuable.
"The Five Minute
Journal" is brilliant.
If anyone has seen that,
it's very, very simple.
And connected to that
one, if you haven't
got any deep, meaningful
thoughts you want to journal,
a very simple
thing to do is just
to write down three things
you're grateful for.
As humans, we kind of have
a bias for the negativity.
It's kept us alive for
tens of thousands of years.
We focus on the danger
and the threats.
But that can obviously
be damaging for us
if it leads to constant
worrying and chronic stress
when we're trying
to go to sleep.
So switching that
and intentionally--
which I think is such an
important way of thinking
about it-- thinking about
something positive, even
if it's just to say I'm
grateful that it was sunny,
or I'm grateful that
I can walk to work,
or I'm grateful for a friend,
or whatever it might be,
it just changes your mindset.
And sometimes when I--
I don't necessarily
always write it down--
but if I'm struggling
to get to sleep,
just thinking of things I'm
grateful for is very valuable.
It's good with kids
as well, helping
them reflect and fall asleep.
So that's one little tip.
Other things that are helpful
for getting a good night's
sleep is not having
caffeine after midday.
Caffeine crops up in a
lot of different ways
that people don't always
know, from chocolate
to tea, not just in coffee.
Exercise is so important.
We're all so busy, but we
don't have time to do it.
But getting the body
moving during the day
is very valuable.
Obviously, getting
out into sunshine.
Blackout curtains, and being in
a room that's very, very dark
makes a big difference.
Temperature-- often people
misunderstand the level
that their room should be.
And it's usually
colder than you think
it should be to help the body be
in an optimal state for sleep.
So those are a few of them.
MAGGIE STANPHILL: Great.
Thank you.
So coming into more of
a cultural zone here,
one of the things that I really
recognized with this book,
and I think a lot of
the work that many of us
are doing in tech
right now is kind
of sounding an alarm about
the importance of sleep.
And one of the things that I
would love to hear a little bit
more your perspective
about is this notion
of balancing the physiological
needs, such as sleep,
such as exercise, such as family
and communing with others,
with the cultural norms
around working a lot,
being available 24/7.
Obviously, different cultural
norms exist, but more and more
there's a prevalence there.
And certainly at
Google, we've tried
to do things, as you mentioned,
around preventing tech
to help people turn off at
night, Wind Down on Android,
things like app timers.
If you have a pesky app that
keeps you up after hours,
we have those as well.
But I'm curious about the
system that we're living in
and how or if we
can change that,
because I do think
that some of that habit
has to do with the give
and take of relationships.
And we see that in
some of our research
with respect to if
somebody texts you,
there's almost a demand,
an immediate demand
for a response.
And so some of
this is really big.
And it's bigger, certainly,
than self-control.
So I'd love to hear a little bit
more about your thoughts there.
MICHAEL ACTON SMITH: Yeah.
This is huge.
Yeah, how do we
change the system?
MAGGIE STANPHILL: No small deal.
MICHAEL ACTON SMITH:
No small challenge.
I think we all feel this.
We've had a front row
seat to it at Calm.
For the first few years
of the company when
we were trying to
raise investment,
I think we got a lot of nos.
The problem wasn't quite
as big as it has become,
and it's extraordinary how
fast it has become a big issue.
We have these magic boxes
with us everywhere we go.
They're extraordinary.
They enhance our lives in
so many different ways.
But if we use them mindlessly,
they can do a lot of damage.
We have news cycles of 24 hours.
We have constant
information coming at us.
We're leading these
always-on, accelerated lives,
and it's very easy to just get
sucked along and blown along
by that.
So we, as individuals,
have a responsibility
to take a little bit
of control back and try
and live more intentionally
and more consciously and be
more aware of how we
use our technology.
I think technology companies
have a responsibility as well.
And I think it's fantastic
what Google is doing,
and Apple, and
Facebook, and others,
to try and help give
their users tools
to help them have more balance
with the technology they use.
But I think this
is one of the ways
why meditation is such a
valuable practice, because it
enables us to change our
relationship with our devices,
not just our devices and
technology, but everything
in our life, so we're more
conscious about how we use it.
And tech and mobile
phones get such bad press
and such negativity, but
they are merely tools.
And if we are more aware of
when we get our devices out,
so we use them when
and how we want,
rather than just being
dopamine-frazzled zombies,
whipping them out
every spare moment
and just scrolling through,
it changes everything.
And it improves our
lives enormously.
But a lot of that
responsibility does fall on us,
as individuals, to
do that in the way
we manage a lot of other
very powerful substances
in our life, from alcohol,
to drugs, to gambling.
We have responsibilities,
and so do the companies
creating these products.
MAGGIE STANPHILL: Agree.
Yeah, be the change
you hope to see.
I love that.
So along those lines, I
read in the book 46% of 18-
to 24-year-olds cite
work stress as one
of the most problematic areas
for them getting to sleep.
And so I'm curious, as
a founder, co-founder
of such a startup
environment, do
you have any
cultural norms you've
imbued within your culture
that you could share with us?
MICHAEL ACTON SMITH: Yes.
So we're very ambitious at Calm.
As I said, we want to build
this extraordinary company
over many, many decades
and change the world,
so we're driven, and we've
got a lot of work to do.
But I think it would
be a bit self-defeating
if we burnt everyone
out on that journey
and turned them all
into husks of humanity,
working 18 hours a day.
So we try and strike a
balance, so it's definitely not
a 9:00 to 5:00 sort of culture.
And we try and act
responsibly, as leaders,
and set a good example.
So I think a great place to
start is just the environment.
And I think Google is
great at this as well--
creating a space
that people want
to show up in and feel
healthy with greenery,
and great lighting,
and ergonomic chairs,
and beautiful
things on the wall.
I've loved Astroturf in all
the companies I've ever set up.
And it just creates
a lovely presence
when you walk into a workspace.
So those are some
of the elements.
We do a 10:00 AM group team
meditation every morning.
And I remember telling
a British journalist
a few years ago about this when
I'd moved out to California.
And he laughed his
head off at me.
And he said, Michael, you've
become so Californian,
like meditating with
your team every morning.
And I said, well, I am
running a company called Calm.
[CHUCKLES] It is part of
our product and our DNA.
And if you think about it,
most of us arrive at work,
and we barely get a
chance to say good morning
to our colleagues.
We're doing our first
email before we've
put our coffee cup down.
And something really
special happens when
you meditate with your team.
It's only 10 minutes,
but you kind of
get all on the same level.
You mediate, and then
you all say good morning
to each other afterwards.
And I think that's been one
of the secrets to our success.
So we've seen a huge shift
over the last few years
of this movement around
wellness at work.
Four or five years ago, the
idea of CEOs signing off
on yoga or meditation
apps for their workforce
would have been a bit strange.
But now, it's becoming almost
table stakes to attract
and retain top class talent.
And it's not just a good
thing to do for companies,
it impacts the bottom line,
it's responsible behavior.
So we love this trend
that's happening.
MAGGIE STANPHILL:
That's amazing.
Yes, we definitely have
meditation rooms here.
And we've got a
great program called
gPause, which really promotes
mindfulness and meditation,
which is amazing.
MICHAEL ACTON SMITH:
I think Google
was very early and forward
thinking around this.
Actually, the Search
Inside Yourself
program was a real trailblazer.
MAGGIE STANPHILL: Exactly.
MICHAEL ACTON SMITH: Big
respect for you guys.
MAGGIE STANPHILL:
Yeah, it was great.
I feel very, very honored to
be able to learn that at work
and to actually have a
community of people who
honor that, which is amazing.
So you've obviously
lived through
and navigated some highs
and lows in your career
and made some amazing
and admirable pivots
in that strategy.
What advice would you
give for folks listening
about when to move
on, and how to do that
gracefully and, hopefully,
leaving everyone better for it?
MICHAEL ACTON SMITH: That's
a tough, tough question.
So yeah, I've built many
businesses over the years.
And some have worked, and some
have been utter disasters.
And I've learned
a lot from those.
And it's really
tricky, because you
can spend a lot of time
just immersed in the data
and with your face
at the coalface,
thinking that this should work.
And you have a lot
of responsibility
to your investors
and your employees.
And I remember one of my
businesses a few years ago,
we were winning awards.
And we were just in
the press all the time.
But I would wake up every night
at 4:00 AM in a cold sweat
and just stare at the ceiling.
And my gut instinct
was, this is not
working, even though
the outside world is
saying this is amazing.
It's a bit of a cliche, but
listening to that inner voice,
and I think that was
very, very valuable.
And I think, again, one of
the practices of meditation
is that it just allows you
to slow down, and pause,
and create a little bit of
space amidst the constant noise
that we're surrounded by.
And when you're
truly silent, that
is when the stuff that your body
really is trying to tell you
can have a chance to
bubble up to the surface.
So I think listening
to that inner voice
is vital to make those big
decisions of whether to keep
going, whether to throw in
the towel, whether to pivot.
MAGGIE STANPHILL: Totally.
Yeah.
And along those lines,
your book talks a lot
about how sleep is oftentimes
the moment at which huge ideas
come about-- amazing music.
And I love that section.
And so to that
end, you also need
to sleep to be
able to acknowledge
that you're learning and to
remember what you've learned.
MICHAEL ACTON SMITH:
Very important.
There's so many examples
of great creatives
throughout history being very
intentional and thoughtful
about how they
sleep and how they
use it to let ideas bubble up.
So I think it was John
Lennon and McCartney that
kept a notebook by the bed.
And they would have
many of their best songs
and melody ideas in the
middle of the night.
I think Salvador Dali would take
naps in the middle of the day.
And he would have a
metal plate on the floor.
And he'd hold a metal
spoon in his hand.
And as he'd nod off
and fall asleep,
the spoon would hit and clang.
And it was at that moment
where he'd wake up,
and he'd have a lot of
his most creative ideas
in that kind of magical space
between awake and sleep.
MAGGIE STANPHILL: Yeah, yeah.
Totally.
Super interesting.
And so within that,
there were a couple very
interesting ties
between sleep and memory
that I think folks in
this room would definitely
be interested in
hearing more about.
Can you share a
bit more about how
sleep helps you process
memories from the science
that you have in there?
MICHAEL ACTON SMITH: Yeah.
So there have been many
studies shown around this.
I mean, just from
ourselves, we know
if you get a bad night's
sleep, you show up
to work the next day, and
you're a lot less focused.
You can be more irritable.
Your immune system
is usually depressed.
And this can happen immediately,
not after multiple days
of sleep, but a single night.
So the interplay between
memory and sleep,
there's a lot of parts to it.
One is that sleep
helps us consolidate
the memories that we are laying
down from the day before.
And if you don't get
a good night's sleep,
some of those memories
are not encoded properly.
And then the second part is if
you have a bad night's sleep,
during the next
day, you are less
good at remembering things.
Your focus is not as strong.
So it kind of impacts
on both areas.
But sleep is just linked
to so many studies
out there, linked to so many
different aspects of health.
Matthew Walker's
book is brilliant--
I think you may
have had him here--
"Why We Sleep," which goes into
tremendous detail, everything
from sleep helping with
memory, improving creativity,
and longer term issues as well.
And I think some of these
studies that are starting
to emerge now are fascinating.
Around one of the theories
is that non-REM sleep,
there's almost like
a car wash that
happens where some of the
amyloid plaque that builds up
in the brain that can tangle and
get entangled with our neurons,
which happens over
many years if we're not
getting correct sleep, can lead
to Alzheimer's in the future.
So some of this
research is still
at a relatively early stage,
but that's incredibly important.
MAGGIE STANPHILL: Yeah.
Really, really interesting.
Another thing that
you had in the book
that I thought was
fascinating is the importance
of the environment, which you
started to hit on with respect
to darkening shades, et cetera.
And again, for those of us who
want to optimize our sleep,
what are some of the most
important assets in your sleep
repertoire?
So pillows, I read
room temperature.
Any other environmental changes
you would highly recommend?
MICHAEL ACTON SMITH: So I bought
a bed recently called Eight.
I don't know if anyone's
got an Eight mattress.
It's fascinating.
I remember someone
telling me that--
obviously, we spend a
third of our lives in bed,
and most of us don't give much
thought to the mattresses.
Companies like Casper and
others have bubbled up.
But someone said, what if we
could create a mattress that
was as well thought out and had
as many data points as a Tesla
car?
And so Eight have developed
this extraordinary mattress
that changes temperature
throughout the night.
And it learns when you're
asleep and when you're awake.
It watches your movement
around the bed very accurately,
and then changes the heat
to help you fall asleep
and then gently wake
up in the morning.
So that was pretty fascinating.
Temperature's an important part.
Other areas is blankets.
There's a company
called Gravity.
I don't if anyone has
slept under a Gravity
weighted blanket.
And this has been a huge boom.
Thousands of those
have been sold.
And I was very curious to know
what the science behind it was.
And I think it's connected
to that feeling of when
we're in the womb, and
when we're compressed,
and we feel safe.
As adults, the idea of having
a weighted blanket where
we can't move that much, I
think, is quite comforting
and helps the body relax,
and unwind, and fall asleep.
So those are a
couple of examples.
But then there's a zillion
different folktales,
and techniques, and tips
that different people have.
There are many from history.
We talk about some in the book,
but some more modern ones are,
I think, cherry
juice has been shown
to be a good way
of falling asleep.
Chamomile tea,
obviously, is good.
Taking a bath at night to
help change your temperature
before bed.
So a lot of different ones.
But insomnia is such a huge
issue in the Western world.
MAGGIE STANPHILL: Yeah.
Yeah.
MICHAEL ACTON
SMITH: So It's big.
MAGGIE STANPHILL: It is.
Thank you, for that.
So switching gears to your hacks
for digital well-being again.
And I know you mentioned
a few for sleep,
but you also mentioned
setting your day correctly,
which I think is
incredibly important.
Are there any others
that you've used
to navigate this busy
lifestyle that you must lead?
MICHAEL ACTON SMITH: Yeah.
I think one of the biggest
is around notifications.
And it's very easy when we sign
up for lots of different apps
and have all these wonderful
valuable services on our phone
to suddenly being digitally
tapped on the shoulder
every 10 minutes.
And I think this is a
massive issue in society.
This has happened quite
quickly, and we've almost
sleepwalked into it.
And one of the
consequences of it
is that it is now much harder
to get into a flow state.
Mihaly Csikszentmihalyi,
who wrote the original book
on flow, flow is
one of the optimal,
most beautiful, wonderful states
for human beings to be in.
But because we have these
devices with us all the time,
because we're constantly
getting nudged,
we don't have the time or the
brain space to get into those.
So I think that's a very
important thing to think about.
So I've tried to turn off,
pretty much, all notifications
on my phone, apart
from a handful that
are related to almost always
when it's a human being trying
to notify me, rather
than a machine notifying
me of something.
When I go into a
coffee shop and work,
I put my phone on airplane
mode, because it's just so easy
to check your phone
every few minutes,
or just to be nudged
out of your flow state.
So I think that's
very, very important.
And all my best business ideas,
all my best breakthroughs
in life have happened
when in that flow state.
MAGGIE STANPHILL:
That's amazing.
Yeah, with respect to do not
disturb, if you get a chance,
try Focus Mode on Android.
MICHAEL ACTON SMITH: OK.
MAGGIE STANPHILL: You
can de-select which apps
or notifications you
don't want coming through.
And I think it's an interesting
angle on getting to flow.
And we've been thinking a
lot about both notifications
and also just that
self-ordained Do
Not Disturb mode,
what's right for you,
depending on your needs.
Because for some people, they
do need an emergency break
through line for certain people.
But again, there's
flexibility, which is cool.
I think that's been
the biggest learning
for us is, one size does
not fit all with this stuff.
MICHAEL ACTON SMITH: Exactly.
Yep.
MAGGIE STANPHILL: Yeah.
Cool.
Well, this has been amazing.
I think we're about
to transition to Q&A.
But first, I just
wanted to say thank you.
And let's give him a round of
applause for all this info.
[APPLAUSE]
So with that, we're going
to take some questions
from the audience.
AUDIENCE: Thank you, so much.
Very insightful.
You mentioned that the
single biggest skill in life
was learning to meditate.
I have a five-year-old,
AND she's
going to start kindergarten.
And I wish there was a world
where we gave the single most
important skill to our kids.
Right?
And at that age, when you
pass on an important skill,
it sticks easily, like the
way you learn languages.
And you want to
learn them early on.
And there, you have a person for
life who is going to do that.
MICHAEL ACTON SMITH: Yeah.
AUDIENCE: And a lot of schools,
especially in the Bay Area,
just the
social-emotional learning
is picking up as a
very important skill.
Unfortunately, not all
schools are doing--
and even the ones that are
doing really a good job
could learn and improve.
Do you have thoughts about
how to get it to schools?
And digitally, as a
parent, I don't want
to put a device with my kid.
Right?
So how can we break the
barrier of having a device,
and yet having kids
meditate and get the skill?
And I'm curious how you
learned your meditation.
Was it through an app?
Or was it through a
teacher teaching you?
And how can we bridge
this gap as well
where you need a
person to actually
teach you the subtle
aspects of meditation?
Maybe the app will do
it, but sometimes you
need a human touch.
MICHAEL ACTON SMITH: Yeah.
A lot of important
questions there.
If you want to
change the world, you
start with the
youngest generation.
And a few years ago,
we saw this quote
that the Dalai Lama
made, which said,
if we want to eradicate
violence in a generation,
let's teach every eight-year-old
in the world how to meditate.
And I was like, wow.
And that really stuck with us.
So we decided to make Calm free
for every teacher in the world.
And we launched this
schools initiative.
And it was a bit too successful.
It went viral, and had
hundreds of thousands
of teachers from around the
world signing up to Calm.
And we love this.
We get so many wonderful
stories and pictures
of teachers starting their
days, their classroom,
with a little bit of meditation.
So you're right.
Teaching it at that young age
is really, really important.
And again, this is an example.
Five or six years ago,
this wasn't really done.
I think there was a lot of
skepticism and cynicism around.
Was it bringing religion
into the classrooms?
Was it fully understood from
a scientific perspective?
But I think that penny is
dropping and changing now,
dramatically.
So I would love to
see-- and I think
we're going to get there
within the next sort of decade,
hopefully-- every school
having some kind of meditation
or mindfulness practice
woven into the curriculum.
I think that would
be huge for society.
So that's one thing.
And the way to teach kids--
the last thing kids want to
do is sit down, and close
their eyes, and meditate.
But we've been experimenting
and testing different ways
to teach them.
One great way is sleep,
because they all sleep.
And so weaving in some
meditation and mindful practice
while they're listening
to a sleep story.
Another thing that
Tamara does is
she creates little
stories for kids.
So she talks about breathing
as if they're blowing out
candles on a birthday cake, or
breathing into a balloon, which
kids are quite excited to do.
So a lot of little
techniques like that.
And then your
final question, how
I learned myself was
I read a lot of books
and a lot of research papers
and got my brain engaged.
And then Alex, my
business partner,
helped talk through some of
the more practical sides of it.
But I have not been
away to India or Tibet
and gone on any long
six-month programs.
At some point in
the future, maybe.
Yeah, it's a good question.
AUDIENCE: I noticed
there's a couple
of blue boxes by that book.
Can you talk about
what those are?
MICHAEL ACTON SMITH: Yeah.
So this is Sleep Mist, available
for $29.99 at all retailers.
[LAUGHTER]
A couple of years
ago, we thought
it would be good to start
creating some physical Calm
products.
We love the digital
world, but we want
to be the Nike for the mind.
So creating products and
services was on our roadmap.
And this is the first
product we created.
And scent is obviously
pretty powerful.
And so we thought, what if we
could create a scent that you
spray on your pillow at night
that creates aromatherapy,
and it is mixed
with audio therapy?
So you listen to a story
read by Stephen Fry set
in the lavender
fields of Provence,
while smelling the lavender.
And so that double hit kind of
immerses you and, hopefully,
sends you to sleep.
So that was the idea.
Yeah.
It's brilliant.
A lot of people swear by it.
And it's a really
fun, simple product.
AUDIENCE: I come
from a country where
they speak a different
language, a lot of people.
And all over the
world, you can make
it any other country, right?
And not everybody is so
comfortable with English.
And I don't know.
I apologize if
your app is already
available in
different languages.
Maybe that's the solution.
But is it?
And if not, how can we
expand this to folks?
MICHAEL ACTON SMITH: Yes.
So we want to reach everybody.
About 50% of our downloads
are in North America,
and the rest are spread
all around the world.
And about a year ago we
started translating Calm
into different languages.
So currently, we're in French,
German, Portuguese, Spanish,
and Korean, with
ambitions to go elsewhere.
And it's very interesting.
Different cultures have
different views of meditation.
And in the Far East, they're
much more comfortable with it.
And it's much more ingrained
into their society.
Much less in the West.
But sleep is,
obviously, universal.
So that's definitely been a
very important thing we've been
leading with everywhere we go.
MAGGIE STANPHILL: And are you
localizing the sleep stories?
I'm curious about how well
those are universalized.
MICHAEL ACTON SMITH: We are.
Yeah.
So what is the
phrase that we use?
It's not translating.
MAGGIE STANPHILL:
Translocalization.
MICHAEL ACTON SMITH: Transloc--
AUDIENCE: Creation.
MICHAEL ACTON SMITH:
Transcreation.
MAGGIE STANPHILL: Yeah, yeah.
MICHAEL ACTON SMITH: So
instead of just taking
it and transcribing
it word for word,
we try and change it so that
settings, and the themes,
and the names are
culturally relevant.
So yeah, that's
been very popular.
MAGGIE STANPHILL: We do
that with some of our work
at Google, too.
So yeah, very cool.
MICHAEL ACTON SMITH: Yeah.
[INAUDIBLE]
MAGGIE STANPHILL: It's tricky.
It's not just the
translation of the language.
MICHAEL ACTON SMITH: No.
MAGGIE STANPHILL:
And to her point,
the meaning would be
lost without that.
That's great.
MICHAEL ACTON SMITH: Exactly.
MAGGIE STANPHILL: Very cool.
AUDIENCE: Hey.
Google has,
obviously, large reach
across a bunch of
different products.
We're doing some stuff
already with Digital Wellbeing
on Android.
But are there areas you see
that Google could do more,
or you wished Google did
more in other product areas
to promote meditation,
mindfulness, and sleep
awareness, that type of stuff?
MICHAEL ACTON SMITH: Yeah.
I think continuing to
promote Calm every way
possible through
all your products
and touchpoints
would be perfect.
[LAUGHTER]
And you guys already
do a great job on that,
SO we're very grateful.
But yeah, the more, the merrier.
No, I think that
there has definitely
been a very conscious shift
in the last few years of--
I've seen it at Google and
other tech companies as well
where you guys are
recognizing that there
is a tremendous responsibility
with the incredibly
powerful products
that you create
and the huge
distribution you have
of giving people those
tools to use them in a more
thoughtful, mindful way.
So I think, yeah, Google's
made great, great progress.
I can't think of
anything specific,
but I think it's all
very positive so far.
MAGGIE STANPHILL: Great.
AUDIENCE: Hey.
I'm [INAUDIBLE].
You alluded to the fact that
several cultures or religions
have different ways of
approaching meditation.
Does Calm take a
particular approach?
Or have you guys normalized the
approach Calm takes across all
of these different cultures?
MICHAEL ACTON SMITH: YeAH.
So we want to be very
respectful and thoughtful
of meditation and its roots
in many different religions.
But one thing we very
consciously decided early on,
one of our brand
values is rational.
And one of the reasons we
felt that meditation had not
become so widespread
in the West was
a lot of people associated it
with religion, AND dare I say,
woo-woo, and things that
just didn't resonate
with the average person.
So what we've tried
to do, as I say,
is respect the tradition of
mindfulness and meditation
where it comes
from, but adapt it
so it can work in a more simple,
accessible, relatable way
for people in the West.
And I think that's
one of the reasons why
Calm, and Headspace,
and other apps
have done so well, because
they have disconnected it
from religion.
So yeah, that was kind of
how we thought about that.
MAGGIE STANPHILL: It's
an interesting question.
Do you have a board of
advisors who help with that,
for lack of better
words, the curriculum
around the style of meditation
that you're developing?
MICHAEL ACTON SMITH:
Well, we have Tamara, who
is our narrator and teacher.
She's our head of mindfulness,
so she's extremely experienced
and creates, pretty
much, all the content.
She has a wonderful network of
others who are great teachers.
And she brings some of them
into the app from time to time.
We also have a
scientific advisory board
that published
several papers now
linking Calm with various
different health outcomes.
And we're very excited about
doing more work in that area.
So calm.com/science is where
we publish those papers.
MAGGIE STANPHILL: Yeah.
MICHAEL ACTON SMITH: So yeah.
MAGGIE STANPHILL: Very helpful.
MICHAEL ACTON SMITH:
Very important part.
MAGGIE STANPHILL:
I'll check that out.
OK, cool
AUDIENCE: Hi, Michael.
Thank you, for
speaking with us today.
I feel very calm
right now, so thanks.
MICHAEL ACTON SMITH:
You look very calm.
AUDIENCE: I noticed you
mentioned a couple recommended
group meditation exercises.
And I'm wondering
if you've found
any differences, any
significant differences,
between group meditation
and your personal practice.
And similarly, if you've
practiced flow state in groups
and if you've noticed
differences there.
MICHAEL ACTON SMITH: I haven't
practiced flow state in groups.
That's really intriguing.
I need to look into that.
Meditation, I personally
find it valuable solo.
Obviously, there's
more friction involved.
And It's harder to gather
people together and meditate all
at the same time, but say we
do it at 10:00 AM every day
at work.
But when you do
manage to do that,
I think there is something
special about all
connecting on the same level.
And I don't want to get
too non-scientific here,
but it is wonderful to do that
practice together, and then
maybe afterwards talk about
it and share what came up
or what someone is feeling.
So yeah, I think
either is great.
And one of the reasons
why Calm has grown,
and Headspace and
others, is that it
is these lessons, these
teachings that we create,
the Daily Calm and others,
are available to you
anytime, whenever you want,
in the middle of the night,
in the morning,
wherever you might be.
And I think that has helped
people develop a practice.
It's so much easier than having
to gather people and do a group
meditation.
MAGGIE STANPHILL: That's true.
Very portable.
AUDIENCE: Hi.
I have three teenagers.
What would be your pitch to
them to go to bed earlier?
[LAUGHTER]
MICHAEL ACTON SMITH: Wow.
Well, goodness me,
that's a tough question.
I mean, there's a lot
of studies showing
that at different stages
and ages in our life
we need different
levels of sleep.
Teenagers need quite a bit
more sleep than the rest of us.
And we talk about
it a little bit
in the book where
a lot of schools
start at a much
earlier time than is
right for the teenage brain.
And in studies where schools
have delayed the start
to the day, they've seen
quite significant increase
in exam results, lowering
truancy, and bad behavior,
and so forth.
So I know that doesn't
answer your question.
Wow.
How do you get them to sleep?
What is it?
[LAUGHTER]
You don't?
AUDIENCE: They stay
up and [INAUDIBLE]
MICHAEL ACTON SMITH: Yeah.
AUDIENCE: I think they stay
up too late, basically.
I think they're staying up
too late, because their school
time hasn't moved to later.
MICHAEL ACTON SMITH: Yes.
Yeah, that may be it.
So getting schools
to be more thoughtful
and maybe starting later.
Because forcing teenagers
to go to sleep earlier than
they're ready is not great,
because they won't sleep.
And it will be
frustrating for everybody.
So I think, yeah, finding the
immovables, such as the school
start date, and seeing
if that can be moved
could be the one route there.
But yeah, I wish you good luck.
AUDIENCE: Hi, Michael.
Thanks.
Sorry.
First of all, I want to
say, my seven-year-old
is a big fan of your narration
of "Alice in Wonderland."
MICHAEL ACTON SMITH:
Ah, fantastic.
Thank you.
I'm glad someone is.
[LAUGHTER]
AUDIENCE: On the
same lines, just
was curious to know how
you pick the people that
narrate these stories.
I get the deep voice and
the calming down voice,
but is there anything
else the team does to pick
who gets to read that story?
MICHAEL ACTON SMITH: Yeah.
So we've been fascinated,
again, looking at the data.
We thought there
would be one size
fits all-- like most
people would gravitate
towards one style of voice--
but it's an incredible mix.
The men are slightly favored
over female narrators,
but only by 55 to 45.
Nonfiction stories are equally
enjoyed as fiction stories.
The most popular nonfiction
is train-related stories,
which is interesting.
There's something
special and magical
about the clickety-clack
of a train track
that people love to listen to.
We have about 10 different
train stories now,
which are super popular.
So we just try out a
lot of different voices.
And we love celebrity
voices as well,
because they're quite
soothing and relatable.
Most celebrity voices,
not all of them.
[LAUGHTER]
There's definitely some
we don't want in the app.
One of our big breakthroughs,
a real tipping point
was when Matthew McConaughey
agreed to do a sleep story.
I don't know if anyone's
listened to his story "Wonder,"
but it's just been huge,
incredibly popular,
particularly with more
females than males.
[LAUGHTER]
We get a lot of men
writing in saying,
all my wife wants to
do these days in bed
is listen to Matthew
bloody McConaughey.
[LAUGHTER]
We're very sorry about that.
MAGGIE STANPHILL: Awkward.
[LAUGHS]
MICHAEL ACTON SMITH:
So he's been great.
And then, yeah, we're very
keen to add more celebrity
narrators, because they
really create PR buzz.
And people love
to listen to them.
MAGGIE STANPHILL: So
we've had a couple
of those voices on the
Assistants, which has been fun.
MICHAEL ACTON SMITH:
Did Samuel L. Jackson
do one or Morgan Freeman?
MAGGIE STANPHILL: So there
have been a few different ones.
MICHAEL ACTON
SMITH: John Legend?
MAGGIE STANPHILL: Yeah,
John legend was the one
that I was thinking of.
MICHAEL ACTON SMITH: Yeah.
MAGGIE STANPHILL: So yeah.
Very cool.
Cool voice.
Yeah, yeah.
MICHAEL ACTON SMITH:
His voice is fantastic.
We'd love him for a sleep story,
if you can send him our way.
MAGGIE STANPHILL: OK!
We'll put you in touch.
MICHAEL ACTON SMITH: Thank you.
We'd appreciate that.
MAGGIE STANPHILL: Our people
will talk to your people.
MICHAEL ACTON SMITH: Great.
MAGGIE STANPHILL: OK,
one last question.
AUDIENCE: Great.
Thanks.
So another business question.
You mentioned that you
do meditation at work
and that you try to really
support that balanced life.
I'm curious how that actually
works in practice, for one.
And two, we've recently
heard from another author
that talks about being
more efficient at work.
If you get better sleep,
you're more efficient.
You don't need as many hours.
You might not even need
eight hours of a workday.
Have you noticed anything like
that or that trends change
in the workplace?
And where do you go from there?
MICHAEL ACTON SMITH:
We've definitely
seen, just in the
last few years,
this big increase in companies
reaching out to us saying,
how can we bring Calm
into our workplace?
How can we create a
healthier work environment?
And I think there was
pushback originally
when it was framed around
the idea of meditation.
We all get it here in Google,
in Calm, and in California.
But for the rest of the world,
I think still a lot of CEOs
might be hesitant at the
idea of their teams learning
to meditate.
But when it's
framed as increasing
the resilience of your
workforce, reducing the stress,
increasing the emotional
intelligence at the workplace,
helping your employees
sleep better,
which has all these
positive outcomes,
then the light bulb goes on.
They're like, well,
that's a no-brainer.
So I think it's
just a reframing.
And something we talk
a lot about at Calm
is this idea of mental fitness.
And so who doesn't
want to be mentally fit
or have a mentally
fit workplace?
And I took mention
of Nike earlier,
but they've surfed this
wave over the last 50, 60
years around physical fitness.
We all get how valuable it
is to look after our bodies.
And this new wave
is just developing.
And we think it's
got such a way to go
where people will
recognize you've
got to look after your mind.
And meditating every day is like
going to the gym for your mind.
And so, yeah, I
think that's kind of
been a very positive trend.
Thank you.
MAGGIE STANPHILL: Well,
thank you, everyone,
for your questions.
And thank you so much,
Michael, for coming out.
Let's hear another
round of applause.
[APPLAUSE]
MICHAEL ACTON SMITH: Thank you.
[APPLAUSE]
