[♪♪♪]
>> Announcer: This is
a CBC News special presentation.
[♪♪♪]
>> I have a dream.
Where the N-word isn't what
society likes most about us.
I'm about to go in.
Can I call you a N-word?
Hell no!
But you can call me a king.
Or you can call me brother.
Or maybe you can call me by
the name that my mama gave me.
I'm a school teacher.
And I'm a dad and I'm a son.
And I'm Black.
And I'm here
because I want change.
In my 37 years of life, I
believe that for the first time,
it's happening.
[♪♪♪]
>> Asha: Those words from
Edmontonian Andrew Parker,
inspired by Martin Luther King
Junior's iconic speech, "I have
a dream".
Hello, I'm Asha Tomlinson and
this is Being Black In Canada.
The police killing of George
Floyd in Minneapolis, Minnesota,
stunned the world.
It was eight minutes and 46
seconds of agony caught on
video.
Floyd saying over and over
again, "I can't breathe".
Since that day, protests have
gone global, on the streets and
online.
People are demanding action from
those with privilege and power.
Demonstrators have been calling
out the injustices of anti-Black
racism and that includes
conversations around the N-word.
It still rears its ugly head in
2020, and the use of the word,
the attitudes behind it are part
of a reckoning in offices and
boardrooms across the continent.
We've also had to address
it within our own workplace.
Two Black journalists have come
forward to share their stories
about the word being used in
editorial meetings at two CBC
shows.
To talk about the N-word and
the wider discussions around how
systemic racism plays out, I'm
joined now by TSN anchor Kayla
Grey, Josh Grant, a social media
and digital marketing manager,
and by Beverly Bain, a professor
of Women and Gender Studies at
the University of Toronto.
Kayla, let's start with you.
You believe it is
never okay--
>> Mmm-mmm.
>> Asha: --to use the N-word.
Why?
>> It is never okay and, you
know, while I'm so happy that we
have Josh and Beverly here who
can really dive into it, I'm
here for those two
Black journalists.
I'm here for Black
Canadians in media.
Those who have spoken out
and have been silenced.
I'm not here to engage in this
conversation because frankly,
having a conversation still to
this day lets me know that we're
more concerned with-- with
having this conversation like
it's a cocktail conversation as
opposed to getting to the real
work.
So I am done validating my
feelings as a Black person, as a
human being.
I'm here to hold
people accountable.
So, you know what?
If we're gonna get out with it
and have these conversations,
let's get out with it.
Talking about, does systemic
racism exist in Canada, can
white people use the N-word
which they know they very well
shouldn't.
Otherwise they would use it all
up and down the place, is run
around for the
real conversation.
What are we going to do?
>> Asha: Josh, you have a bit
of a different perspective.
Take me through it.
>> Yeah.
While I don't personally use the
N-word, I might use it if I'm
rapping along to a song or
singing along to a song.
I think that's a decision that
Black people are allowed to make
for themselves since it's a word
that has been used historically
to hurt our community.
But I just feel like, if you're
not Black, you shouldn't be
using the word and I agree with
Kayla that, you know, it's kind
of ridiculous that we are having
this conversation right now in
2020.
Anyone who tries to say that
they don't understand why they
shouldn't be allowed to
use the word...I don't know.
It's kind of hard to
believe at this point.
>> Asha: Professor Bain, we've
heard the argument time and
again, right, that musicians use
the word and perhaps-- well, I
was quoting someone.
Does context matter?
>> Yeah, context
and who matters.
Listen, the word-- the N-word
actually has derived-- it is,
you know, from slavery in
relation to how Black bodies
have been dehumanized.
Right?
And it traveled all the way to
the civil rights, you know, and
the structure of
the Jim Crow system.
And it continues as part of
the afterlife of slavery.
This is what white people today
in newsrooms, in institutions...
where it comes out
as if it's casual conversation.
I-- I think when the N-word is
used by rappers in music, it is
speaking to a particular kind of
history and a particular
kind of struggle.
>> Asha: How do we
address this in the workplace?
>> Address it. Address it.
>> Asha: You've had
experiences, you've had them.
>> Let me tell you something.
Address it.
You know, I don't think
in any context,
white people should
be using the N-word period.
And that you feel so comfortable
to say these words at meetings
lets me know exactly what type
of culture has been
created in certain workspaces.
So, for all these people that
want to put out their public
statements, their action plans,
it doesn't start when you feel
comfortable to do so.
Enough protecting your people.
Don't be talking and try to
use context as your excuse.
And let's be very clear, because
now we're talking about if Black
people are gonna have this
conversation about a word that
we've reclaimed.
I don't use the N-word.
We need to have a conversation
as to why white people feel like
they want to use that word.
That is the crux of
the conversation.
>> Asha: And that is
where we have to leave it.
Kayla, Josh,
Professor Bain, thank you.
These are the types of
conversations that are happening
as the Black Lives Matter
movement gains momentum.
We've seen communities coming
together in solidarity and
they're all saying
enough is enough,
that the time for change is now.
Here's how we got
to this moment.
♪ ♪
>> They executed my
brother in broad daylight.
[Chanting]
>> Asha: The anger
over Floyd's death first spilled
onto the streets in Minneapolis.
[Shouting]
>> Asha: And then the
demonstrations erupted in dozens
of cities across the U.S., many
wearing masks against COVID-19.
They filled streets and public
squares, packed bridges and
parks.
Global protests saw everything
from a toppling of statues in
the UK...to a silent protest in
Senegal at a site remembering
victims of
the Atlantic slave trade.
Thousands in Rio de Janeiro
rallied against police killings
and in Tokyo, demonstrators
shouted, "Dismantle the police".
>> [Chanting] Hands up,
don't shoot!
>> Asha: In this country,
protests and vigils have been
staged in every
province and territory.
In Halifax, protesters called
for unity and acknowledgment of
a history of
intolerance in Nova Scotia.
In Montreal, demonstrators
marched through the streets
calling for changes to
police tactics and provincial
government policy.
>> Asha: Toronto has
seen protests at sites ranging
from City Hall to the
provincial legislature to police
headquarters.
>> [Chanting] Black
lives matter!
Black lives matter!
>> Asha: Up next, a conversation
with members of the movement.
But first...
Dub poet Des Mckenzie felt
compelled to write about these
times, and what it means to
be Black in Canada right now.
Here's part of her poem.
[♪♪♪]
>> ..because what the world and
what the Canada no one wants to
believe exists has taught us,
is that peace can look a lot of
different ways.
For Black people, perhaps,
it's being able to exist, skin
undressed from caution tape
when to others, peace can be
delivered at school, in days
at home, in riding the bus.
Peace can be delivered by simply
calling the cops but not for us.
Not here...not
now...not ever, actually.
No wonder there's protests in a
pandemic when danger rolls off
of Black people's backs the same
way Black Lives Matter rolls off
of tongues when it's convenient
because anti-Black racism has
been the pandemic long
before the one we're living.
So, what do you do
to stop the spread?
You can start by listening.
Removing your body from comfort.
Taking a look at this country's
broken reflection and finding
yourself in its mirror shards,
taking each limb apart to expose
what's been planted in you until
you are broken and there will be
no more, saying "Let's make it
better for the next generation"
like mine is a write-off.
[♪♪♪]
>> Asha: Welcome back to
Being Black In Canada.
Black Lives Matter started out
as a hashtag back in 2013, after
the acquittal of George
Zimmerman in the shooting death
of Trayvon Martin, an unarmed
Black teen in Miami, Florida.
It has now grown into an
international movement, bringing
attention to police
brutality and systemic racism.
Here in Canada, there are some
well-known young activists who
have been raising
their voices for years.
We spoke with Sandy Hudson,
Syrus Marcus Ware, and Desmond
Cole back in 2016 about
activism and the movement.
Syrus, you use art as
a tool for activism.
How does that inspire
future generations?
>> One of the things that we, I
think, really need to do in our
activism is to not only focus
on the things that we want to
change but to start to paint
a picture, perhaps literally,
about what kind of future
communities we want to live in.
What do we want the
world to look like?
How do we want to interact?
What do we want those one on one
conversations to be about in the
future?
>> Asha: If you could say
something to a person who
believes there is no longer
a need for Black activism in
Canada, how would
you respond to that?
>> In Canada, there's this myth
of this country being this place
where people ran
away to be free.
Black people did, and it's the--
it's this haven and, you know,
if you just-- you know, maybe
there's some problems in your
community but, like, just work--
work hard and you'll be fine.
And I think people need to
understand that that-- that
history, that telling of
history in that way, is a myth.
>> Now everybody talks about
the 60s and the Civil Rights
movement, and they're
talking about the United States.
So they're not
talking about Dudley Laws.
They're not talking
about Viola Desmond.
>> Mmm-hmm.
>> They're not talking
about people in this country.
>> Yeah, yeah.
>> So they're talking
about this mythical past.
And I think that people,
especially white people, have
the idea that all the white
folks were with Dr. King.
That all the white folks saw
that somebody sat down at the
front of the bus
and were like, yeah!
You know, it's about time.
People hated that, just like
they hate our activism, resent
our activism today.
>> Asha: That was
just four years ago.
We wanted to connect with our
panellists again for their take
on where the Black Lives
Matter movement is now.
So let's start with you, Sandy.
You co-founded the Toronto
chapter of Black Lives Matter.
What are your thoughts about
activism now and where we are
today?
>> I mean, I am feeling so
inspired by what is taking place
around the world right now.
And I think that maybe people
who are watching this through
their television screens and
getting the news of all of the
Black activism and agitation
around the world are probably
thinking that this is a moment
that's perhaps disconnected from
previous moments where the media
was really paying attention.
But I think that something to
remember and take note of is
that 95% of the work that we
as activists do is unseen, and
exists between those moments.
And so, you know, I am just
really heartened to see a lot of
our work come to fruition, and
seeing the way that culture has
shifted around the issues that
we've been bringing to the table
for so so long.
People are talking
about abolition.
People are talking
about defunding the police.
And people are finally, you
know, all of these things that
we've been talking about for so
long, ready to take action on
that.
And that feels really inspiring.
>> Asha: Yeah, and it feels like
universally, people are
listening this time around.
Syrus, considering everything
that has happened, are you
hopeful?
>> Fundamentally, I am driven
by a profound sense of hope.
I really believe-- you know, I
think about our ancestors and
how they hoped and dreamed and
worked and laboured to make sure
that we were
freer than they were.
And I know that that's what
we're doing for our children and
for our great-grandchildren.
We're trying to make a world
where they get to be free, and I
know that we will do this.
I listen to the words of
our ancestors, Marsha P.
Johnson and folks who are still
with us like Assata Shakur, who
remind us to stay hopeful and
not to be driven by a distorted
sense of fear.
We have to believe
that we will win.
And I am hopeful that we will.
>> Asha: Desmond, did you ever
think the movement would get
this far?
>> Not this soon.
Not this quickly, no.
And because that has
happened, it is really exciting.
It is a tribute to the work
that has been done before this.
And I think that there have been
moments in the past...you know,
the resurgence of the Black
Lives Matter movement in the
United States, Idle No More,
Standing Rock, that you pop up
and you see this energy, but
it's always there building when
people are not watching.
I think the big sign that we're
doing so well right now is that
politicians feel like they
have to give us an answer.
And in many cases, that answer
is token and it's superficial.
So we're going to have to fight
very hard to keep the foothold
that we have just gained so that
we can continue the work that
has put us in this position.
>> Asha: Sandy, what do you
think it'll take to bring about
lasting change?
>> You know, I think it's such
an important question, like, to
make sure that the change is
enduring, to make sure that it's
long lasting, because even if
decision makers make a change,
like, another decision maker can
come in and make that-- change
that back.
And I think that the thing
that makes things enduring and
sustainable is the cultural
shift, the change in culture
where people are so educated
about an issue like what
policing really is-- a
constraint on Black people, a
constraint on Indigenous
people-- that they now know this
makes it impossible to go back
to a world where people don't
know that.
And people will not be accepting
of decision makers who won't
address that and won't be
accepting of decision makers who
want to roll back any changes
that have been made because of a
recognition of what
policing truly is.
>> Asha: Syrus, your thoughts?
>> Yeah, I mean, this is a
movement that is not just a
Toronto movement,
it's not just a U.S.
movement, it's not just Turtle
Island and Inuit Nunangat, this
is a worldwide movement.
And the monuments and the
artworks and the demonstrations
and the rallies and the murals
in the streets are so vast and
so loud that you can
see them from space.
They're so large that you can
literally see them from space.
So when we say the whole world
is watching and the whole world
is part of this movement,
we literally mean that.
I mean, people outside of the
universe can look in on our
planet and see this action.
So this is a tremendous
moment of-- of uprising.
And I think that it will bring
about some lasting changes.
>> Asha: It paints
a powerful picture.
Desmond, I leave it with you.
>> Well, I think that our hope
is that the cultural change that
Sandy has mentioned will then
translate into a change
in our priorities.
The changes in the ways we spend
money, the changes in the times
we punish people rather than
giving them support and care.
That's when we really are going
to know that our values and that
cultural shift is in place,
is when we say, you know what?
Spending money on policing,
prisons, immigration detention
centre, ripping families
apart through the child welfare
system, it didn't work.
It's never going to work.
Let's spend that
money on childcare.
Let's spend that money
on transit and social
services, on housing.
Like, let's give people
what they need rather
than criminalize them
after they don't have it.
>> Asha: So great
talking to you all again.
Appreciate your insight.
Thank you.
>> Thanks very much.
>> Thank you.
[♪♪♪]
>> Asha: Coming up next, we'll
hear from two Black women who
are dismantling systemic
racism one boardroom at a time.
First though, we checked in with
the next generation of young
voices about what it
means to be Black in Canada.
♪ ♪
>> Being a Black Canadian means
that I have to work 10 times
harder just to be half as
good as everybody else.
Plus, I'm a girl.
When I watch the news, I become
afraid because I see people that
look just like me being hurt.
It makes me want to change the
world and I wish people would
realize that love is so
much stronger than hate.
>> Being Black in Canada means
I have to work twice as hard to
reach goals, to prove
people wrong, and to succeed.
I have to devote time to educate
others on what racism is and why
it exists in Canada.
I have to invest energy in
breaking the false stereotypes
of Black male youth.
>> One thing I wish to see
for our Black community for the
future in Canada is a historical
and modern day education and
awareness is to be incorporated
into our education systems.
I hope to see this in the future
in our education systems to help
with micro-aggressive
mindsets towards our
Black community in Canada.
[♪♪♪]
[♪♪♪]
>> Asha: Welcome back to
Being Black In Canada.
The recent protests across the
country have refocused attention
on systemic racism in our
country's institutions.
And there are two women who are
leading the push for inclusion.
Joining me now is Jaqui
Parchment, CEO of Mercer Canada
and co-founder of the Black
Opportunity Fund, and Gilary
Massa is an equity and human
rights educator
with Inclusive Leaders.
Welcome to you both.
>> Thank you.
>> Great to be here.
>> Asha: Jackie, let's start
with systemic racism and how it
shows up in your work.
>> It shows up in the
differences in where we see
people at different
levels of corporations.
The fact that you see very few
Black and Brown people at senior
levels, and that has a huge
impact on the impact that we can
have for society.
Having a less diverse
workforce at the top means less
productivity and less-- less
moving forward for Canada as a
whole.
>> Asha: Gilary, what about you?
>> Well, for me,
I wear two hats.
In my work at the school boards,
you know, it's really about what
does curriculum look like,
who's teaching it, how are they
equipped to teach
diverse curriculum subjects?
And in the work of not for
profits and helping different
organizations think through
what...you know, equity and
inclusion looks like
for those organizations.
>> Asha: I think it can be
especially hard when there are
people who don't
believe it exists.
How do you deal with that?
>> You know, there's a little
bit of pain porn that happens.
You know, you have
to tell your story.
There seems to be something
about having-- having someone
that you know and respect
tell you their experience versus
reading it in a book.
So it's difficult, but being
transparent and open about--
about the fact that it does
exist and how it affects you
personally, I find is helpful.
>> Asha: I'm hearing this again
and again, how do we move this
conversation forward now?
Gilary, what are your thoughts?
>> I mean, I think it
takes some boldness.
I think that people need to
start re-imagining what our
institutions can look like,
what they need to be doing
differently, how they can
support the marginalized
communities within our society.
And really, that is taking
a hard look at ourselves as
organizations, as leaders how
are we contributing to a culture
that has excluded
folks for so long?
>> Asha: Jaqui?
>> You know, they're really
practical, tangible solutions.
So I'm involved with the Black
Opportunity Fund, first fund of
its kind in Canada.
A fund that is going to be
managed and controlled by Black
people for the benefit of
funding great Black institutions
moving social justice forward.
>> Asha: Thank you so much for
being a part of this program.
>> My pleasure.
>> Our great delight, thank you.
>> Asha: We're going to take a
short break but when we come
back, a roundtable chat with the
director and cast from The Book
of Negroes mini series.
>> All the information
will be kept in the ledger.
>> What will this
ledger be called?
>> The Book of Negroes.
>> I do want to go to this
Nova Scotia, with my husband.
>> Consider passage
guaranteed for the two of you.
You have my word, Ms Diallo.
>> And I accept.
[♪♪♪]
[♪♪♪]
>> Asha: Lawrence Hill's novel
The Book of Negroes became an
instant classic back in 2007.
It centred on a West African
born woman named Aminata Diallo.
Her journey is heartbreaking.
Kidnapped as a child and forced
into slavery in South Carolina,
she eventually helps the British
in the Revolutionary War and
that gets Aminata's name in
the book kept by British naval
officers, and it allows
her to get to Canada.
Then through her eyes, readers
relive the earliest chapter of
the Black
experience in our country.
The Book of Negroes has won
numerous awards around the world
and it was a Canada
Reads winner as well.
And I'm joined now by the
man behind the powerful words,
author Lawrence Hill.
Thank you so much for being
a part of the program again,
Lawrence.
>> Delighted to join you, Asha.
Delighted see that the
miniseries will be rebroadcast.
>> Asha: For sure.
And we spoke about the mini
series back five years ago but
thinking about it now in this
historical moment and context,
is there a renewed
relevance do you think?
>> I think so.
I don't want to oversell the
value or the influence of art,
and sometimes art is
kind of like a friend.
It takes a while for the value
of that friendship to sort of
enter into your life.
But I guess if I were to imagine
most deeply what-- what the
potential art is, whether it's a
novel or a film or a mini series
or a sculpture, is to sort of
encourage a person's
humanity to expand.
Encourage your
empathy to expand.
Encourage them to be able to
imagine walking in the shoes of
another person, and hopefully
the mini series allowed viewers
to imagine the-- the
dimensionality of a life of a
West African woman who is
brought into slavery and
hopefully it sort of peels back
the layers and allows us to see
a real person-- imaginary, but
sort of a real person there in
that situation and the relevance
I guess is that it might also
inspire people today to imagine
that there are real people
behind this Black
Lives movement.
Real people are getting shot and
killed and choked to death, you
know, in this country and in
other-- and in the United States
and other parts of the world.
Real people who are suffering
and who-- whose humanity needs
to be recognized today.
>> Asha: And there seems to be
a heightened awareness and a
hunger for this type of content.
So much has
happened, as you mentioned.
I mean, from George Floyd's
killing to the daily protests to
the ongoing calls for
change, for action.
What are your thoughts about
this moment and the movement
right now?
>> Well, there's always a little
bit of wariness that I feel.
Is this going to
be a passing fad?
Will the institutions that sort
of dominate our economy and our
society, will-- will the people
inside those institutions, the
leaders and just the regular
people, will we truly change as
Canadians and step more deeply
into the work of anti-racism?
Or is this a passing fad that we
will quickly and conveniently as
Canadians forget in
the next 12 months?
And so that is
something of a concern to me.
>> Asha: I never forgot this,
when you told me years ago that
we need to know our history.
It should not be
swept under a rug.
So what can we learn from the
Book of Negroes, and why is it
so important to
have that knowledge?
>> Well, there's something
distinctly, quintessentially
Canadian about the-- almost the
hunger, the need, the emotional
reflex that has us point an
accusatory finger at those
nasty, dastardly Americans.
If we only luxuriate in the
acquisition of others, we are
unable to really move forward
and to assess coolly, without
blame but just assess coolly and
logically where we are and what
we need to do, what we need
to change in this country.
And most Canadians can easily
tell you something about Martin
Luther King, but nothing about
the Civil Rights movement in
this country, the fight to
desegregate and eliminate
slavery in this country.
Then it's very hard to really
grapple with the present as
well.
>> Asha: How do we
move forward, Lawrence?
What would you like to see?
>> Obviously, we have to
move forward in the arts.
First and foremost, as a-- as a
working Canadian, I'm an artist,
a novelist and occasionally a
co-screen writer, and artists of
course shape and influence the
way we see ourselves, the way we
see our country, the way--
the way we see ourselves in our
country.
So creating more spaces for
Black artists to thrive is
something that I
care about very deeply.
Obviously, we need to keep
looking at the school system,
not just eliminating the
most overt forms of racism but
attacking the more subtle,
insidious, micro-aggressions
that can chip away at a child's
self-confidence, that can make
or force or induce a child to
choose a non-academic stream
instead of an academic stream,
not that the academic student is
necessarily better but so many
Black kids have these choices
made for them, not because
they made them themselves.
When I was a young boy, teachers
told my parents that I was
developmentally challenged and
that I'd never really be able to
succeed in an academic setting.
I don't know what led them to
make that assessment, but that's
what they told my parents and
I think many Black parents and
many Black children received
those sorts of messages in
school.
And so we have to address, you
know, the dignity and also the
challenges that we want to issue
to Black children among others
so that they feel stimulated and
challenged and respected, and so
they can flower just as
fully as they're able to do.
>> Asha: I'm so glad that you've
forged ahead because what a
national treasure you are to us.
Lawrence, it's
great talking to you.
Thank you.
>> It's wonderful
speaking with you, too.
Good luck.
>> Asha: We're going to take a
short break but when we come
back, a roundtable chat with the
director and cast from The Book
of Negroes mini series.
[♪♪♪]
>> Asha: The Book of Negroes
mini series is
coming back to CBC.
The show brought Lawrence Hill's
classic novel vividly alive for
millions of viewers
in Canada and the US.
Filmed on location in South
Africa and Nova Scotia by
director Clement Virgo, it
featured some unforgettable
performances by a
star studded cast.
Aunjanue Ellis, Shailyn
Pierre-Dixon, and the legendary
Lou Gossett Jr.
I'm joined now by Aunjanue
in L.A., Lou Gossett Jr.
in Atlanta, and Clement
and Shailyn are here
with me in studio.
Thanks for being here.
We can call this The
Book of Negroes reunion.
>> Yeah.
[Overlapping agreement]
>> How's everybody doing?
>> It's going good!
Good to see you again.
>> Asha: We're living in some
interesting times, needless to
say.
>> Very interesting times.
>> Asha: From COVID to, of
course, you know, that brutally
raw video of George Floyd
being killed by a white police
officer.
So many were shaken
by that to the core.
How did it impact all of you?
>> I think our only survival is
for us to take better care of
one another.
The only thing that's
gonna save mankind is mankind.
So when a man sees fit to
take his knee and put it on
somebody's neck and let them
stay and let them die, he is
making one less chance
for his life to be saved.
Just like The Book of Negroes.
What you did every day was
take care of the entire tribe.
First things first.
That's the only way we are gonna
survive today, is if we take
better care of
ourselves and one another.
>> Asha: Well said.
Aunjanue?
>> Well, I'm-- for me...I'm
still in the-- in the throes of
it.
You know, I think it'll take
me several months, perhaps some
years--
>> Lou: Years.
>> --for me have some clear
words about what that did to me.
I have not watched the entire
tape because I-- I can't-- I
can't take that, I
can't stomach it.
So, but I know-- I
know what it has done.
I know what it did to my body, I
know what it did to my soul, but
I'm interested now in what
it's gonna do to my mind.
And I feel that-- I feel
convicted by that, and I-- and I
shamelessly say that The Book of
Negroes is a seed for that and
I'm just so excited that, you
know, that it will air again.
Because Lawrence Hill wrote
that, not knowing that he had
George Floyd in those pages, in
those words that he was writing.
>> Yes.
>> Asha: Powerful.
Clement, I mean, as a director,
you understand images and how
they affect people.
So what were you
thinking about that moment?
>> Of course, seeing that image
of this man calling out for his
mother on the ground, and having
the spectators calling out to
the officer saying he's dying,
you know, get off his neck, he
can't breathe...that image is a
very-- you know, seared in my
memory.
And I think in all
of our memories.
And that image, I think,
shook-- shook the world and it's
changing the world.
You know, it's opened up a lot
of conversations and I think
it's opening up a
lot-- a lot of eyes.
So, no amount of
words could express it.
You know, all you have to do is
see that image of the man on the
ground and it tells a story.
>> I felt bad in my
stomach when I saw that man die.
I felt bad in my stomach
when I saw Trayvon Martin die.
But it's an indication of
the devil for us to react in a
vicious way where nobody wins.
We're talking about the
salvation of mankind now.
We're talking about
our mutual salvation.
And there's a lot to offer if
we get rid of this...adversarial
attitude and this fear.
Something's happening if we
are paying attention to it 24/7.
All that fear has
got to go away.
And be replaced with a
mutual...contribution to our
mutual salvation.
>> Asha: Shailyn, listening
to Lou, he's seen it all.
>> Yeah.
>> Asha: But for you, you're
17, you're coming of age in this
Black Lives Matter movement.
>> Yeah.
>> Asha: What do you
think about it?
>> Well, when I first saw
the video...my
heart was very heavy.
I didn't really know how to
process it, and especially since
I'm in the age of social media,
I'm constantly seeing these
things.
And at some point, I felt a
bit desensitize-- desensitized,
sorry, because of all the
things that's being fed to me.
And I didn't really know how to
process my feelings because of
this, which is something I
think a lot of people my age are
dealing with and it's going to
take time, like Aunjanue was
saying, to really just continue
to process it and hope to see
this change so that we don't
have to continue going through
this terrible and tiring, um...
>> Asha: Yeah,
time and time again.
>> Yeah, exactly.
>> Asha: Same old story.
>> Yeah.
>> Asha: Okay.
We're going to
leave it there for now.
We're going to take a quick
break but when we come back,
we'll talk to the cast and
director about the significance
of the mini series The Book of
Negroes in these times, why it's
so relevant.
Plus, we'll reveal whether or
not there is a sequel
in the works.
[Lou chuckles]
>> Asha: Stay with us.
[♪♪♪]
>> Asha: Welcome back.
I'm Asha Tomlinson, and I'm
joined by the director and cast
of The Book of
Negroes mini series.
Aunjanue Ellis is in L.A.,
Lou Gossett Jr. is in Atlanta,
Shailyn Pierre-Dixon and
director Clement Virgo here with
me in studio.
So we're going to pick up the
conversation again and Aunjanue,
I just want to talk to you about
what's going on with the Black
Lives Matter movement.
How are you-- how are
you participating in that?
What have you been doing?
>> Well, I have a more specific
concern with
contemporary Confederacy.
And I'm from Mississippi and I
have lived with a culture, a
political structure, a
socioeconomic structure of the
Confederacy that has
survived the Civil War.
And-- and so one of those things
that's, you know, relevant to
The Book of Negroes is that
while we-- when we were awarded,
I think the best
movie of the year?
>> Not to toot my--
our horns, but I'll make this
relevant, trust me.
I wore a dress that said,
Take It Down-- Take It Down
Mississippi, to that--
to that awards show.
And the direct result of the
murder and torture of George
Floyd was the response on the
part of the NCAA, the SEC, and
all these organizations that put
pressure on Mississippi in a way
that my dress could not do.
>> And--
>> Speak for yourself!
>> And so, the result of that--
what happened was is that three
weeks ago, the state of
Mississippi voted to take the
Confederate flag down.
So Mississippi was the remaining
state to hold the Confederate
flag as its official symbol,
and it no longer has that.
And it's-- it's sick that a man
had to die in this way for that
to happen but it happened, and a
lot of people worked a long time
to make it happen including me
wearing my little, silly dresses
on these red carpets.
But yeah, I mean, I count that
as-- I count that as a victory
but it's a-- it's a
removal of a flag.
It's not a dismantling of a
culture, it's not a dismantling
of a system.
And that's why we have to--
that's why we have to stay on
task.
>> Asha: Mmm-hmm.
Lou, you have said that The Book
of Negroes is this generation's
Roots.
>> Yes, it is.
>> Asha: Why is it-- why is it
so important for us to know this
history, this story,
especially right now?
>> There's so many stories like
it, and it's time for people to
know all the stories
about us to get a
all-around picture of
who we really are.
Some of the stories about us
have been taken out of our
history books, all the
way through the centuries.
Everybody needs to
know about everybody.
We have this power, we were the
earliest civilizations ever on
the planet.
So our children
need to know they are.
They can represent themselves
properly, and join in the
diverse success of the salvation
of the planet and mankind with
where they belong in society.
So this Roots and this Book of
Negroes and Watchmen and all
that stuff, is-- it's
a breath of fresh air.
>> Asha: Clement, you shot
the series partially in
South Africa--
>> Right.
>> Asha: --and also in
Nova Scotia.
Halifax, to be exact.
Why did you do that?
>> Well-- well for me,
that-- that history is key.
That-- the history of Canada,
Nova Scotia, is key to the
series because I think a lot of
people don't know that a lot of
Americans came up and
settled in Nova Scotia.
A lot of Black Loyalists
who fought for the American
Revolution came up to
Nova Scotia and stayed.
And so-- so a lot of the Black
folks that you see in that part
of the world, that's how
they, you know, landed there.
And so it was-- for me, it was
key to kind of show that history
to Canadians and so that they
know that part of their own
history.
There's a kind of tendency to
think that it's Black history,
but it's only one history.
You know, it's-- you know, we
all have just the one history
and it's-- and it's for us
to all know that one history.
>> Asha: Shailyn, as a young
Canadian, you know, what did you
know about this history before
you filmed The Book of Negroes?
>> Honestly, little to nothing.
In school, we weren't learning
about it very much and I-- it's
only because, before filming,
I'd read the book that I even
really was able to immerse
myself in a little bit of
education on this type of topic.
And luckily, my mom is a big
part in, like, Black Lives
Matter movements and just
activism in general, so that's
where I was kind of getting
little bits of my information.
But I was never really
noticing different types of
micro-aggression and really
being able to identify these
instances before actually being
a part of The Book of Negroes,
which is why as a young person,
I think it's really important
for us to put this
type of film out.
>> Asha: You know, there's been
many calls for action and change
and that includes being the
author of your own history,
something Aminata
Diallo herself addresses.
So let's take a look at that.
>> As your confederate in the
struggle to end the slave trade,
I have decided...I will
write the story of my life.
>> Certainly, but...you will
require our guidance to ensure
that--
>> Without guidance.
Thank you very much.
My life, my words, my pen.
I am capable of writing.
>> Ms Diallo, it is not a
question of your literacy but
rather, an issue of
ensuring authenticity.
>> That is precisely why nobody
must tell my story, but me.
>> Asha: I get goosebumps
watching that again, Aunjanue.
[Laughter]
>> Asha: Wow.
>> Me too, me too.
>> Asha: Wow.
How does it feel
watching that scene?
You're covering your eyes!
Why?
It was just so powerful.
[Laughter]
>> Asha: How are you all
feeling seeing that scene?
I mean, that was a
poignant moment.
>> Yeah.
>> Well, it's just amazing to
see Aunjanue's work in this, and
to see how-- just how powerful
she was in that scene, you know.
I just-- she was in every
single scene, Aunjanue.
Every single one.
>> Lou: Absolutely.
>> Clement: She did
not have one day off.
And we shot for
like, almost 70 days.
>> Yeah.
>> Clement: And, you know, she
was in the heat of South Africa
and she was in the
cold of Nova Scotia.
And so, you know, seeing that
scene again just sort of-- you
know, and that power
and that story, yes.
Yes.
You know, Aminata had
to tell her own story.
>> Asha: Yeah.
>> Quite powerful.
>> Asha: Lou, when you look back
on the making of The Book of
Negroes, what's your takeaway?
>> My take was the last
day of shooting,
I looked at all the crew.
They'd come from everywhere
around the world, starting
in South Africa
and ending in Nova Scotia.
I said, you don't
know what you've done.
They looked at me like I was--
they didn't know what I was
gonna say.
There's people from all around
the world and where you come
from, some of them are
fighting one another.
You've worked very hard to get
this properly-- this quality,
high quality movie on, and
you're holding hands, working
for one common
purpose, and you succeeded.
I congratulate you all.
And they looked at each other
and they hadn't realized what
they'd done.
But under other circumstances,
they wouldn't be working
together.
They've created this miracle
with all these actors in this
place.
They created history, and they
all cooperated best they can.
That's...the secret of our
living together on this planet.
>> Asha: Yeah.
Clement--
>> Asha: --I hear that
there is a sequel in the works.
Can you confirm?
>> Yes, there is.
CBC has asked us to think about
making a sequel to The Book of
Negroes, and we are.
We're in the process of writing
that series now, and it's a
story about...Aminata's
granddaughter, and it's set in
Nova Scotia, in Africville.
And so we're gonna tell the
story of Africville and that,
and it's a coming of age story
of a young woman who comes into
her voice.
And so yes, we will be having a
new Book of Negroes on the CBC
come next year.
>> Whoo!
>> Asha: That is wonderful news.
Yeah, let's do it.
[Laughter]
>> Asha: Let's celebrate.
Aunjanue, you had
something to say.
>> Yeah, you saw
my mouth opening.
>> Asha: I did.
Yeah, I want to hear
what you got to say, girl.
>> I just-- being, you
know, talking with these three
incredible people and these
three people who have been just
instrumental in my life in more
ways than I can-- I can say and
express, I'm just so grateful
that I had this opportunity to
know the three of you.
And I'm so
grateful to the CBC...
..for giving us an
opportunity to do this together.
I'm so grateful, I'm so glad you
guys are gonna show it again.
That's all, I'm sorry I cried.
[Laughter]
>> Asha: You were
starting to make me teary eyed.
>> Yeah.
>> Asha: Shailyn, before we wrap
up here, I just want to give you
the last word because we're
about to watch the series--
>> Yeah.
>> Asha: --in a few
minutes time.
You were a big part of
those early episodes.
What do you remember about
filming, especially the first
lines of the mini series?
>> Honestly, the first thing I
remember really was how amazing
the cast and crew were.
The-- the atmosphere was so
welcoming and really beautiful,
and just seeing all-- like Lou
said, the different people just
working together
was really amazing.
And I think it's important
to see what her life was like
before going through her journey
as, like, a slave and then
becoming free, is really
important to remember that.
Not just slavery in
our history, you know.
>> Yes.
>> Asha: Yeah, for sure.
>> Yes.
>> Asha: Thank you, guys.
Lou Gossett Jr.
>> Thanks, everybody.
>> Asha: Aunjanue Ellis, Shailyn
Pierre-Dixon, Clement Virgo, I
want to thank you so much for
being a part of this panel.
>> Thank you.
>> Asha: The Book of
Negroes starts now.
