And my question here is, we reported that at the time and we found it
an interesting proposal, at least a solution, a possible solution
and an entry point for discussion: but, really,
did you make a joke there or was it
completely serious? Is this still an option? Can we do it on the Moon?
It would be too expensive. Certainly.
I have been told quite a few times this.
But on the other hand it wouldn’t be safe enough either. Unfortunately so.
Can you explain that. Is it possible to explain this in such simple ways
that people like me - I'm not a scientist - that we can understand this?
You see, I am a single issue scientist in this context. It’s just the
little black holes that I'm interested in. Not the strangelets
that Walter Wagner is talking about. And as to the little black holes:
If CERN is successful producing them it would be producing about
one per second. Many, many, many of them. And most of them would fly away.
Only one in every million or so would stay inside the Earth because
it would be slow enough not to escape. So its intrinsic velocity and
there will be almost no friction they all would go right through the Earth
and go away, except when it is slow enough. It would then be circling
inside the Earth and if it would be growing fast enough - 
which I think that I can proof - it would eat the Earth from the inside out
in a few years time.
Before I interviewed you today you mentioned that in the End the Earth
would be, you said 2 centimeters...
1.9 centimeters.
Exactly. And you corrected me and said 1.9. 
So apparently this is based on calculation.
Absolutely. The size of any mass, of any black hole which has the mass
of the Earth, is 1.9 centimeters. But of course much of the energy
would be radiated away so it would eventually be a little bit smaller
than 1.9 centimeters. But we were talking about the danger
to the Sun and the Moon. To the moon for example.
So some of these many little black holes that would be radiating away
they would be going in all directions. I didn't know that when I said
the moon would be safe. I learned that from Professor Landua in CERN.
And therefore as to the Moon: Enough would be hitting the moon and one
would be slow enough to stay on the Moon. It's not very probable but
if there are many enough it would also happen with one hitting the Moon
and also with the Sun. So the Sun would go out as well.
I'm a bit surprised, still. Because I remember at the very beginning
the CERN said we produce no black holes.
No. Yes. No. Even before that, they were hoping to produce black holes
and then they learned that there are arguments against the security
argument that black holes are not dangerous - which is Stephen Hawkings
wonderful theory... And then, I don't know why they stopped talking
about black holes as their main goal.
Because it's certainly the most spectacular finding that could
come out of the experiment.
So you do think that at the beginning they actually wanted
to find that black hole?
Yes, it was their best selling point.
And then they found that people said 'We are actually going to be afraid
of these black holes' and then they said 'No,no,no - it's not really
the black hole we want to find!' something else, the Higgs particle maybe.
Yes. and everything one does not know, one can of course hope for.
Is it correct to say: If Einstein is right the CERN is dangerous?
Yes, that is exactly right what you said. Because Hawking
contradicts Einstein. And Hawking's theory is needed to make the
little black holes safe that would be produced at CERN,
because they would evaporate. Now Hawking had a little great idea,
that black holes would evaporate in 10 to the minus 29 seconds or something,
which means that there would be no danger at all.
That's fantastic. But isn't this very convenient?
I see Einstein as THE scientist we had. Now, of course Hawking is
also of course a very, very good scientist but ...
... yes, and a very sympathetic person as well
and he is a hero in his private life.
Absolutely. But isn't it a bit convenient to say we are absolutely certain
Einstein is completely wrong, Hawking is completely right and
just by the way his theory proves that black holes
just evaporate all, instantly.
Yes. And CERN knows that and therefore CERN doesn't repeat
these sentences nowadays. They are retreating on the second safety level
so to speak. But they still know that the real
life assurance is Hawking's theory.
I hear often from people, from people whom I'm just talking to on the street,
maybe the CERN is dangerous but, you know, we can't do anything against it.
But now, what I hear from you is that really we the people that
pose questions, actually made the CERN already several times change strategy.
So we are having an impact. Even if we are not yet millions but we might
be in the tens tousand. When I went 2 years ago on the Internet there
was absolutely nothing about the CERN, apart from Walter and you,
and today I find hundreds of hundreds of thousands of blogs,
of forum entries, of questions on Yahoo 'Is the CERN dangerous' and whatever.
Children talk in school about it.
Yes. That is nice. But it would be wonderful if one could disprove
this main danger that black holes would not evaporate and would therefore
be eternal essentially so they would eventually eat the Earth.
Whether I'm right that it's only 5 years or whether it takes longer
is less important in comparison. But this is the basic question on the table,
and the public should be allowed to participate in a discussion
about this question. I call it a safety conference.
A security or safety conference. And this conference doesn't cost much.
It doesn't take more than a week to arrange. It can be done.
And CERN can wait for this week. And if enough people on the planet say,
why not go the safe way, then everything is fine.
Like when we drive cars - we don't drink. We should just go the safe way.
Right. I want to be disproved. I want to be made a fool. But it does not
feel so good to be a fool but not be shown to be a fool as yet.
I hope I'm a fool. There is nothing better than to be
a fool when you are warning.
I agree. So this safety, this security conference - I think that is what
most of the critics I talked to also want. That seems to be like a common goal.
To say: 'Let's stop for a moment. Let's meet. Let's discuss.
Precisely. Yes.
Let's become clearly sure what exactly the...
