my name is Elizabeth Heald and I'm the
president and CEO of the Kitchener
Waterloo Community Foundation I'm so
pleased to be joined today by one of
KWCF'S board members Andrea Harding who I will introduce in a moment
and throughout the next hour you'll hear
from six black and indigenous leaders in
our community around important topics
that are prevalent today
these speakers include Ruth Cameron, 
Ciann Wilson, Fitsum Areguy, Lori
Campbell, Donna Doobie and Amy Smoke as I
mentioned in the essence of time we have
been sharing their bio's in the chat
function so please take a look to learn
more about these incredible leaders this
is not a presentation it's a
conversation with people with lived
experience and experiences sharing their
stories we encourage you and thank you
for taking the time to educate
yourselves and on that topic of
educating yourselves most of you will
have received an email yesterday with a
link to a video series by Kike Ojo
called challenging systemic barriers
over the last year the team at KWCF
has been using these tools as prompts
for some open authentic conversations
about very important topics like racism
we will be sharing a link to the videos
in the chat later today if you have
other resources that you want to share
that would be useful in our collective
quest to educate ourselves please feel
free to share using the chat function
one last comment before I invite our
guests to join I heard this quote on the
radio over the weekend and I wanted to
share it with you today treat racism
like COVID 19,  assume you have it
listen to experts about it don't spread
it and be willing to change your life to
end it so thank you for joining us over
the next hour and for your willingness
to learn and be a part of the change
that's critically needed I would now
like to invite Andrea Harding and our
guests to join us
Thank You Elizabeth before we get
started we acknowledge that the land on
which the speakers gathered today is the
traditional territory of the
Anishnawbe , Haudenosaunee and Neutral peoples. We acknowledge the
presence of the indigenous people with
whom we share this land today their
achievements and their contributions to
our community we offer this
acknowledgement as an act of
reconciliation between indigenous and
non-indigenous peoples of Canada as we
are virtual you may be joining us from
another territory today and if so I
encourage you to do some research to
find more about the land you live work
and play on
as a settler it is my responsibility to
understand what truth and reconciliation
means and my part in it it is a constant
process of learning and an unlearning
that I take responsibility for on a
daily basis the reading reflection
research and participating in
conversations such as our dialogue today
I take this responsibility very
seriously and I'm calling on my fellow
settlers to do the same thank you for
joining us today as part of your
learning before we start with the
questions I wanted to give Donna an
opportunity to share some reflections
 
good afternoon hello welcome to this opportunity for
us to share our thoughts with the
community I would like to start off with
reminding the community that we have for
many years tried to work with various
levels of government and with the Royal
Commission report and recently the Truth
and Reconciliation documents and the
recommendation the 94 calls to action I
would like to use that as a forefront
for our community to start off with as to
recognizing some of the calls to action
that the various levels of government
can follow through on and this is the
time for you to follow through on those
recommendations so I would like to turn
this over to somebody else at this point
because unfortunately I'm having a
problem with my computer and my modem is
gone so I will be cutting in and out and
I hope that I came across from beginning
to end of my conversation and let's have
an awesome truthful respectful
conversation today
thanks Donna luckily your internet held
up at least on my end and we were able
to hear your message so I appreciate it
and hopefully you can jump in a little
bit throughout this our first question
that I'm going to start off with is why
this focus on black and indigenous
realities and experiences of systemic
racism in this moment in Canada why is
this important and what do
non-indigenous and non black people need
to know I'm going to turn it over to
Ruth to kick the conversation off Thank
You Andrea I hope that I sound clear to
everyone I wanted to start off by
thinking about black and indigenous
current realities in Canada as being
very much informed by the differences
and the linkages in our history in
Canada and when I think about that as an
individual I think back to our histories
as causing us to both be something I
call hyper visible in Canadian history
and in Canada and also invisible in
Canadian history and in Canada and those
things show up differently for our
communities I think about the fact that
the history of Canada starts with a
corporation the Hudson's Bay Company and
that Corporation starts with an
expedition to set up a fort clear land
of its original inhabitants and that
expedition is financed with money from
the Royal Africa Company which was the
corporation's set up by the King of
England at that time and his brother was
we called it Rupert's land I
think we all were learn talk that around
grade 8 in history class that expedition
and that fort the soldiers and the start
of the precursor to the Northwest
Mounted Police in Canada whose purpose
was to clear land
for exploitation for profit that was all
financed by proceeds from the
transatlantic slave trade in the
Caribbean so to me that start of Canada
which starts with trafficking and
enslavement of Africans and you know and
clearing indigenous people from their
territories so that the land could be
enclosed within a fort and taken in for
profit tells a lot about what is going
on and informs what's going on with us
to this very day so now the stories that
are told are that there are not many
indigenous people in Canada 
and in that way indigeneity is we're
told doesn't exist but also that there
was not slavery in Canada and that for
black Canadians our history is very
recent when it is not it was part of the
start of Canada so I'm gonna just stop
there and allow someone else to speak
I'll build on that and thanks so much Ruth
for that opening in terms of
starting that that context and building
on that just to sort of build on what
what you've talked about in terms of the
fact that Canada did have enslavement
they did have enslaved African people
and so just sort of acknowledging that
history and naming that out right I
think that Canada does a really great
job of telling a story of being a part
of the Underground Railroad and that's
the part of the story that they feel
that they've whitewashed and are really
proud to share while not acknowledging
their participation and continued
participation in indigenous genocide and
the enslavement of African people
throughout the history of the
building of this nation-state if we were
talking very frankly we
have to talk about Canada as being part
of the British North American Empire
building project right and that includes
the Canada United States and the UK and
so really you know specifically naming
that I think that in the larger Canadian
consciousness again erasure is a part of
that
a conversation in a whitewashing of
history and so to Ruth's point we have
to acknowledge that these nation-states
are built on genocide that they are
built on enslavement and acknowledging
that bloodshed and acknowledging that
really vicious and violent history I
think is the only way that we we come to
really understand the uniqueness of
indigenous erasure the uniqueness of the
fight of indigenous people for
sovereignty and the uniqueness of
anti-black racism that persists in these
nation states to the current moment as
Ruth has articulated and so that really
sheds light I think about the
specificity of the issues that we're
talking about today the specificity of
some of the the violence's that
we still face as to peoples and we'll
talk a little bit later about some of
the context within which we've built
solidarity and connections out of this
history and that also being a really
important part of our stories just to
build on all that really
important historical context like that
continually is erased you know
there's a local history as well with
black people living here for a really
really long time there's the history of
Queens bush settlement that was settled
by black people for a very very long
time as and as early as 1850 and were
driven out by the British you know three
decades after they had settled there
that history is always erased in the
retellings
of Waterloo's mythical norms to use the
phrase from Audrey Lorde we talk
about mennonite histories we talk about
German settlement histories we do not
talk enough about indigenous histories
here and I mean deep indigenous
histories here and we do not talk enough
about black histories and this plays out
in the current day institutions and
organizations that get a lot of respect
and which translates into funding to
support work that they do here and it's
just a cycle that keeps that keeps going
I feel really lucky that I learned a
very tiny bit of the history and land
connection and land significance of
Victoria Park within the last week and I
was just part of a conversation that was
ongoing and I hope that I don't get any
of this incorrect but that one that land
right there was a gathering place but it
also was a place of ceremony for
marriages you know and we think about
the current you know use of the pavilion
people get married there people love the
beautiful park but it was a
place for for unions to come together
for much much longer than that
you know and I feel such gratitude and
being able to know that about this place
with those histories that really connect
to land and place and who had
relationship with this land I want to
know more of that it has to inform how
we go forward together. That's a really
great place for Amy because is Amy's
in Victoria park. Yes I am and I apologize for
the wind it's pretty windy today this is a hub of activity
between the knot and the unit's now
being a host jöhnny economic trade
feasting thermal kinship relations when
we brought our children here a very
variable age we developed bigger circles
of kinship with the other communities
and it grew out from here the Germans
arrived and found out about this hub of
activity here all of the trading going
on and all that and we traded with them
and told them how to live on the
land here and then they built the Joseph
Schneider house just down the street and
the city built out from this place from
our little hub here and yeah I
think it's important that people
recognize that's the
reason why Kitchener exists today and I
think there's a small plaque at the front
of the park that says something about it
it's unfortunate that there is not
enough history about the actual economic
hub and the activity that was going
on here which is to be completely erased
by the rest of Kitchener it. And to
build on that you know as far as monuments
go with the myths and the
mythologies that keep getting respected
and revered here the same thing sort of
goes with Schneider's factory you know
Schneider's factory and you know the people who started that business
gave a lot of people in this region work
but it also took up a lot of space and
even as it gets torn down and I lived
down the street from that factory as it
gets torn down what is gonna take its
place is a beautiful new development called
the Mets in honor of Joseph Metzger
Schneider who started the building and
so we see these things continue and
these histories again just get embedded
even as people know now to do land
acknowledgments and to say
the words we still see monuments being
put up in honor of settler colonialists
I think even more about this history and
how it gets erased and what I originally
spoke to about the start of Canada then
we see going from this particular
history lesson that we just started here
how all these things feed into our
current realities here in Canada 
so if we start out with indigenous
peoples being cleared off their land by a
prototype police force
and then we see black individuals
enslavement trafficking being used to
finance this police force we see how we
get tied we get tied into the current
violence through the military through
policing in Canada and that those forces
were actually created to control us to
eliminate us when we weren't
economically useful and to make sure
that we didn't get access to land so
that others could profit off land
not prosper on land in relationship to
it but profit off it by keeping others
away from land so hopefully through
going from A to F to Z just like that
people can see how inextricably tied up
our current realities are with
paramilitary and policing violence and
other systems that use the same kind of
violence what we call carceral systems
systems of punishment our child welfare
system sometimes our mental health
system and see how those echo that same
kind of punishment and control of bodies
and then you see how this is all tied up
in our really complex history and why we
in particular see each other in this
violence and know that we must work
together because of our our well-being
and our thriving is tied to one another
I do throughout history and because we
are actually both recognize each other
as indigenous peoples - black people are
also indigenous peoples just not from
here and thank you Ruth I think that
ties in really nicely to the next
question which will have Laurie kickoff
and I think I saw Ciann was ready to
chat about it as well but I wondered if
you could speak specifically to the call
from your communities to defund the
police and why is that important to
Center in this moment
all right thank you I apologize I got
kicked out once if it happens again I'm
gonna go on data off my phone but
hopefully I'll stay in on this and thank you everybody for what you
shared I wanted to elaborate just a
little bit more on when Ruth was
speaking of the clearing of the plains
and you know most people I remember I
grew up in Saskatchewan and you know
having that glorious opportunity of
going to tour the Royal Canadian Mounted
Police Museum that is in Regina and F
division and where they train and the
sanitization of history around
the formation of that organization was
not included in that museum and so the
originally the Northwest Mounted Police
were specifically created by Sir John A
McDonald the first Prime Minister of
Canada modeled after the Royal Irish
Constabulary which was a quasi-military
group that was heavily armed and was
used to basically beat down the poor
Irish who were revolting and so he very
consciously was aware of the
organization that he was creating and so
enlisted two hundred men to go out west
and part of his reasoning was as it was
really expensive for the military and so
he created this other organization to go
out there and to clear the plains and by
clearing of the plains it was clearing
it of the indigenous peoples that were
there and so indigenous peoples
wasn't the people that
Canada needed they wanted the resources
and to exploit the resources and so in
Canada right that's how we got confined
and locked up on reservations and
cleared off the plains and part of the
the work that was done to do that was
also in particular out west was the
slaughter of millions of Buffalo which
were our sustenance to everything from
food to ceremony to clothing and shelter
and just left to die in the fields and
so that clearing occurred but the Northwest Mounted Police were who
secured us and kept us on the force the
police force the force was against
indigenous peoples the service is for
the settler and colonizers who were
coming out there right and that's always
been
the system and on the first question you
can ask something sort of specific about
systemic racism and I think it's really
important to think that no equity
diversity or inclusion or reform program
is going to give us the outcome of what
we're looking for when there's systemic
racism built within the system itself
and so we really need to think about
looking outside of that indigenous
peoples we've always I hear
those stories from my old auntie's and
their stories that heard before and the fights that
they've been doing intergenerationally
but have been many times and currently
like trying to get the services the
resources that we need so that we can
have the services that we need to keep
us healthy and safe and to build our
communities again and you know language
recovery culture recovery we had very
complex legal systems education systems
kin systems all of those things that
were you know working on recovering that
we know make us healthy and literally I
was just listening to MPP speaking in the house I was in earlier
this week and you know the premier
walked out as he stood up to speak
essentially standing there begging for
us as indigenous peoples to have our
basic human rights met and that
absolutely rips my heart out to see
how we are treated in that way when we ask
or are requesting services that are also
within entrenched within our treaty
rights that were agreements made nobody
responds or very very few people respond
I would say very few people respond
within the positions of power to provide
to meet those agreements when we do
things like put up blockades and shut
down Canada and people get upset about
the indigenous peoples being Restless
that gives us a little bit of attention
for a small while when we
speak about defunding the police when
the defund the police hashtag started
going out that
got a response from people and so it's
still asking and my understanding
still asking for much of the same thing
the police have never been a service to
us they've never protected us they have
been the people who hunted us confined
us dragged us back and onto the reserves
so we need the resources that we
can then develop and work on our own
systems and recovery of our own systems
to keep ourselves healthy having police
come in and start surveilling us or
trying to take our kids out to a camp is
is disgusting and further breaks up
those kin systems I've shared the
example before of you know I'm a 60
scoop survivor I came out here to
Ontario partly to connect with one of
my brothers that I had not met before
because of the 60 scoop and last summer
for the first time my brother and I and
two of his sons went camping for the
first time my brother and I are almost
50 years old neither of his two children
live with him full-time they couldn't
have gone with him if I had not been
there and I can tell you the benefit
to my nephews and to my brother and to
us as a family far outweighed any
benefit that would have come from taking
my two nephews and sending them off with
some stranger to go have that experience
so that's just one really practical
example I'm going to leave it there and
let some others jump in on that
go ahead Ciann. Thanks so much
Laurie for bringing us to that
larger scope of what the RCMP have meant
in the Canadian history historical
context as they were established in 1873
and definitely were about clearing
land for white settler colonialism we
also know that the first publicly funded
police in the United States were called
the slave patrols and they were
established in the 1790s and as their
name sort of suggests their
entire objective was to you know control
and surveillance enslaved African people
and hauled them back to their masters
should they seek
freedom, seek to be free
and fully functioning human beings
fully you know living their lives and
and and unable to live their lives and
so these are just some of the things
to think about that when we you know
call for the defunding of police I think
a lot of people their back gets up
against the walls and there's a lot of
alarm like they can't imagine themselves
outside of this white settler construct
called the police and when they hear
this a lot of alarms go off for people
people get really concerned and they
also don't know that history that
history that impacts our communities
that is deeply wrought in indigenous
erasure and the annexing of indigenous
peoples off those territories and deeply
entrenched in anti black racism and
violence right and so just really
highlighting that history again for
folks that we often hear the words
defund police or abolition and folks are
so deeply entrenched in white settlerism that they cannot for the life of
them imagine and conceptualize a world
without the police even though
there's much evidence to suggest that
you know the police are not only it's
not only structures of white supremacy
that we're talking about that have
deeply entrenched perceptions of
indigenous and black people but that
they're causing harm and if they're
causing harm in the communities that
there
harming are saying this is not okay this
cannot continue and we will not support
the continued funding of of these bodies
a part of white settlerism is that
defensiveness and that protectionism and
white solidarity to protect these
predominantly white institutions and I
want to just highlight that that a lot
of what I see in the media is this sort
of uproar at this idea and what I
challenge folks on on the line today and
listening today to think about is how
committed we are to white settlerism
when we think that these ideas are out
of the box and crazy and just not
feasible or possible and despite the
folks that are on the ground that are
feeling those harms saying we must
because it's harmful because it's
violent and that violence has
historically entrenched in our
intergenerational trauma and our
intergenerational memories as peoples
and so I just want to highlight
that that piece for folks who are
listening today
you know and thinking about you know
where we find ourselves presently and
the greater knowledge and
the public of what they're now believing
I think we also really need to
challenge  because you know those
of us as guests this is
knowledge that we've known and grown up
knowing right about the violence
perpetuated against us and our relatives
in by the police services and you know
and our entities and
uncles and parents have you know tried
to teach us various specific things to
not get killed by the police and we
still do that and that's a very
different narrative than what are white settler Canadians are
teaching their children about the police
and again you know I was thinking back
to in Saskatchewan more very
prominent cases around like the
starlight tours that were occurring you
know where they were the police were the
perpetrators of the violence and taking
indigenous peoples out in the middle of
winter out of the city and dropping them
off and some freezing to death and
somebody being able to walk back
from that
the missing and murdered indigenous
women inquiry as well and from the TRC
before that in the Royal Commission on
Aboriginal peoples before that which
were also brought up all of this
information is in there for all you in
this region I hear there's a lot of
Buffy sainte-marie fans she's out here
all the time those of you who listen to
her song my country tis of thee thy
people are dying she spoke about the
violence the state violence against
indigenous peoples in that song the
stealing of the children the violence by
the police the violence in the
residential schools so you know I just
I think that's important to realize that
people aren't listening or are choosing
not to listen and or not believe what's
going on. I think Donna wants to jump in
here for a second
Donna do you want to unmute. Thank you
you know things happen in our community
regularly we shared a story this morning
where one of our community members many
of our community members have obtained
severe trauma because of the residential
school and because of the 60 scoop and
now we've got another big scoop happening
which is a Millennium scoop where our
children are being taken out of their
home right now from Family and Children
Services we had an incident where we had
called for some help for help for one of
our community members who is suffering
from severe mental health issues because
of his trauma and because of that he was
using some alcohol to be the band-aid
for his well-being and it was time for
the organization to close down we stayed
open long longer than normal but he had
collapsed outside on the boulevard in
front of the organization but over one
house when the police pulled up we had
given him a blanket also to cover
himself because it was cold out this
just happened before COVID started so in
February of this year when the police
showed up they didn't bother to see if
he was breathing if he was bleeding or
if he was even alive they took the boots
to him and tried to kick him to
aroused him and he was way he was
wau gone in his addiction and he was
passed right out but if he would have
stayed on the street he would have froze
to death or he could have rolled on the
road and somebody would have run him
over with their vehicle but instead
trying to arouse him they kicked him they
pulled him up by his arms in his back
area to try and get him off and they
accidentally dropped him worse
he went face-first into the snow and
into the pavement they did it again they
picked him up and this time his head hit
the police car when we talked about
defunding the police when we called for
support services for people who are
suffering from the mental health issues
from their trauma we don't need to have a
gun pointed in our face we don't need to
be tased we just need to know that we're
in a safe space we need to know that
we're speaking to an individual with
compassion and understanding when
somebody's standing over you in a
uniform and you're at eye level with
their guns and their batons and their
tasers that triggers the individual to
have a fight-or-flight response the
defunding of the police means put the
money into the services that are truly
truly going  to benefit the people
who need the compassion and the respect
and the healing services that those
individuals need to help them move on to
the next hour in their lives the next
five minutes of their lives they can't
do that when they're being abused even
before they get into the police car
they're being abused once they're in the
police car and then when they get to the
hospital they get abused over there by
the staff looking at them thinking that
here comes another drunken Indian coming
to the hospital
you know wasting our time because look
at them now we don't need that anymore
we don't need that anymore
I know on a daily basis healing and
seven generations has helped individuals
who suffer from that extreme trauma on a
day-to-day basis every single day and
when we require services from mainstream
like the police or maybe Family and
Children's Services Family and Children
Services knows right off the hop if
they're going to go and apprehend any
children in our community they bring the
police because they're again just like
residential school the parents are
fighting to keep a hold of their
children and they bring the police the
stand on guard that if any one of those
parents are going to fight for their
children that the police are there and
if things get out of hand they draw
their guns they bring out their stun
guns they don't they bring out their
authoritarian voices to tell the people
to back down while we steal your
children these are the things that we're
talking about when you talk about
defunding the police  defunding other
services out there that are continuing
to create the harm in the very
communities that they come in to thank
you. Yes thank you Donna. I see in the chat that
some individuals are talking about
police reform and when we say defund we
mean abolish and I want to make that
unequivocally clear the police were
created to kill us in the name of profit
the police are an invention and all of
us all of us here black indigenous other
racialized individuals and white people
whiteness is an invention and
coincidentally whiteness was invented
just prior to capitalism being invented
and then police being invented they are
all linked together before the invention
of whiteness before the invention of
capitalism and before the invention of
police all of our societies had rules
laws practices of how to look out for
one another and how to deal with
individuals who transgressed norms and
caused
great harm we all know how to take care
of one another in a world without police
we just have to go back and find it as
well as invent new futures where we
learn how to again take care of each
other
without police reform means continuing
to kill us in fewer numbers I will not
have a conversation where someone tries
to blend reform and abolition because
you're saying it's okay to just hurt a
smaller number of us or just continue
hurting us a little bit less these
institutions were created for harm they
cannot be reformed. Absolutely Ruth I was reading
through some of the comments and noting
that about this reform and you know
where I started we're saying there's no
equity diversity and inclusion policy it
does not matter if we bring in black and
indigenous police members this system is
what drives their actions and that
system that keeps getting improved and
reformed keeps on it doesn't actually
decreased our deaths it is actually
increasing our deaths and our
incarceration rates indigenous women are
thirty five percent of the incarcerated
population in this country in total
indigenous people all indigenous people
we are less than 5% of the national
population and that has on women's and
men has increased
exponentially with every improvement and
reform that the police do there was also
another comment about whether or not
it's the responsibility of black and
indigenous peoples for the education I
am very grateful and appreciative of the
work and the emotional labor and the
trauma that my relatives have gone
through and other indigenous relatives
and ancestors to share their truths that
were documented in the TRC and also in
the missing and murdered indigenous
women and girls in two-spirit inquiry
people need to take accountability I am
NOT interested in sitting down to talk
to somebody about residential school or
the murdered and missing indigenous
women Our people have done that work
so that it is made available so other
Canadians can read that and learn from
that I don't need to know you don't need
to come have a conversation with me that
you've read that I don't need to witness
that you've read it what I need you to
do is to you support the actions that
black and indigenous peoples are taking
up provide us the resources and and let
us get down to our work stop keeping us
in that rut of having to always
continually tell you the stories about
how horrible the system has treated us
and how traumatized we are from that
because we are organizing and you know
we're taking action and yeah. To add a
little bit to what Laurie was just saying
the whole camp situation down here
in Victoria Park we actually have a non
indigenous sort of a settler liaison
that will be mine for the settler
non-indigenous non-black person who is
coming up to the camp possibly to enter without any
masks no social distancing no really
respect for the circle formation that we
have but her top is to take on
that work to help to educate the
non-indigenous setler folks approaching
us before they get to us because I 
might not do it as well as someone else
they should be educating each other
check your own people once you've read
tell your non-indigenous and non-black about that. Its traumatic to have somebody race right up to me
and what are you guys doing here and you
know their tone is quite hostile I would
rather the settlers in support of us do
that work for me
It's difficult to have to explain it
over and over and over again and then
have them go well you know it
was just the sign of the times back then
that's the way that we called
everybody Indians back then like it
doesn't make it doesn't make that okay
so it's it's easier for us to have non
indigenous and non black folks who've
done the work educate their
friends in their community and their
families. Very quickly to build on that
on the topic of education
you know I saw in the comments also that
someone said you know are we going
towards a chaos defunding the police
does not mean that we are sacrificing
community safety it means we are
building new models we are building new
futures and that's the thing that we're
going to talk about more later as one of
the questions to our group but what
I keep seeing is a failure of
imagination and a blatant disregard for
the mountain of research and writing on
this subject this is not new work these
are not new calls they're just at the
forefront right now so I'm for people to
go and read you know go read Ruth
Gilmore Wilson go read you know Angela
Davis all that stuff is online it's 2020
you can find it. I'll just
build on that I you know I couldn't say
it better myself
just you know we are also calling for
the reallocation to you know services
that are dealing with mental health that
are dealing with social services and
health services that are led from an
anti-racist and an anti colonial
framework and folks that are
knowledgeable in these areas that's
where this money should be spent it
shouldn't be put back into training
police as if training police has ever
you know we've trained police that
that's what we've done we've trained
them over years and we haven't really
seen the results of that that hasn't
improved you know the death tolls in our
communities and so there's a lot to be
said there's actually a really
interesting story that comes out of the
United States where one of the actual
trainers of the police also was a part
of the protests tha erupted afterGeorge Floyd's murder and
he was actually shot at by police
so just to you know fully bring that in
circles training means putting more
resources into the very systems that
have proven to not
work for our communities so that's not
what we are asking for we are certainly
asking for the reallocation of reach of
these resources to services to people
who are professionals and trained
professionals at that to you know carry
out all of the
social and health services that
actually do serve our our communities
and do you deal with upstream factors
that do cause or or lead to folks being
in dire situations that may lead them to
committing petty crimes for example or
or that nature of things so really
dealing with the these sort of sources
of some of the challenges in our
communities is what we're looking at and
re-envisioning what you know community
accountability looks like and these
things that you know that fits um
has eluded to I think are some of the
calls our parts of this larger
conversation about reallocation of
resources to communities that we are
talking about I also wanted to build on
what Lori was talking about earlier in
terms of not wanting to teach we are
exhausted we are tired we're also
fighting for our own survival in that of
our own communities and hell I don't
have time to teach you when I'm fighting
for my own survival and that of my
community sorry that's not what we're
here for I also think it's a really
interesting form of trauma porn that
white folks get to indulge in when we do
that when we unpack
you know these traumas in our lives
these experiences in our lives that are
really you know we're putting them out
there where you are surfing them and
there's no what what do we do with that
it's great for you you get to listen and
go home and feel great about yourself
but you know that leaves a lot of scars
for us and so I'm not really you know
encouraging of that and I'm quite
hesitant of it in terms of its utility
we've told countless narratives
countless you know giving countless
examples of evidence and evidence you
know we're always asked for more and
more evidence and that's another piece
of the larger white supremacist sort of
structure always asked to prove and
provide evident evidence and no matter
how many stories how many testimonies
how much evidence we provide we're still
asked for more and even then nothing's
actually changed or done and so there is
a point at which folks are asking for
change we're done with the bullshit
let's let's look at the action
We also need the time to take on like I
you know Amy and I I know we've had
conversations about this but the amount
of time that we're investing to try and
relearn what was stolen from us means we
need to engage with our elders to do
that or old ones our auntie's our uncles
and at the same time you know I work as
director of the indigenous Student
Center at the University and the
students are coming in our door and
they're needing us to help them on their
journey and so if I spend all my time if
Amy and I spend and Donna spend all our
time doing education over and over all
the same thing to settler Canadians then
we continue to get further and further
away from our own learning and our own
health and well-being and and again you
know many many indigenous peoples have
put that down there is you know 30 years
ago oh it was challenging to find
indigenous authored stories and
scholarship about our experiences that
is the case no more there are a lists
all over out there and
know in the black community and then the
crossover between black and indigenous
in Canada and like it's amazing so yeah
like get that thanks Laurie
For those of you who've been
following along in the chat there have
been a ton of great resources put down
here some of ou panelists have jumped
in other people have shared them I
encourage you to take a look but also
the community foundation will be pulling
them all together and sharing them as
well for you but like everyone has said
this is our responsibility to be doing
that and a ton of information has been
shared with you today so hopefully
you're gonna take the time to really
learn and and take that
responsibility for yourself and move on
to the next question now how have you
built indigenous and black solidarity
within and between your communities and
how has this been transformative for
your mobilizing we'll start this off
with Fitsum. Yes and I'm seeing how much
time we have left so I'm gonna try and
keep it brief and to the point
to allow the panelists to jump in but
some the lingering effects of
colonialism and the racist logic of
enslavement have made it so that it has
been difficult to connect you know
within and across our communities not
impossible because we find a way to
resist and connect despite that but it
has been difficult but you know these
are complex issues that require you know
solidarity is a complex thing and I find
that art offers a fantastic way for
solidarity between and across indigenous
and black people and that's what I've
done in my own work with textile
magazine where you know I've partnered
with indigenous artists to deliver our
programming to indigenous and black
youth in our region and through that art
answer some tough questions and you
know come to a place of
understanding where we can connect on
these issues but also communicate what
it means what black indigenous
solidarity means to us to the wider
community and and why it's important so
last year we did a mural downtown
Kitchener where indigenous youth answer
the question how do you want settlers to
acknowledge the land as opposed to doing
a land acknowledgment mural that's not
for indigenous people to do how the land
needs to be acknowledged is this
something that each said there has to
sit with and figure out for themselves
and so that was a great piece we're
 undergoing a few other
projects but um you know when it comes
to mobilizing I find that art has been
an amazing way to do that and also an
area that's been severely underfunded I
can say even from my own experience that
it's been incredibly difficult to find
funding to support art for black
indigenous solidarity and  it's
really really disheartening to hear
people give lift surface but not funds
Ill just vibe off of that in terms of arts based work so a lot of my work ends up being
community and arts based research big
surprises there in terms of my work with
indigenous in black and racialized
communities and one of the projects that
I'm super proud to have been a part of
and have partnered with some amazing
folks in in in doing is the proclaiming
our roots project which was an arts
based digital media project that really
focused on centering the lives realities
and histories of indigenous black people
in Canada and and sort of writing those
stories into being in the Canadian
consciousness because not a lot of
people understand the rich wealth of
history and connections between
indigenous and black people throughout
Canada's history that communities have
been created movements have been created across the Americas and across Turtle
Islands everything from the Haitian
Revolution to the Seminole Wars of the
1860s to you name it there have been
some really pivotal social movements
that have been leveraged
on the backs of indigenous and black
people and mixed indigenous black people
in on Turtle Island so I just want to
sort of highlight that shout out and sort
of like you know that work that I've
been you know again so privileged to be
part of and the stories that I've been
so again honored to be able to
facilitate and sharing with the world in
turn more in Canada just to again tie
those connections of arts-based work and
indigenous and black solidarity in
Canada. We have thank you so we are
gonna end up going over but I think this
is a really important conversation so
we're gonna keep going but figure will
probably be about 10 minutes over just
letting all of our viewers know if you
do have to go to something else this is
being recorded it will be shared and the
resources will be shared but I don't
want to cut this conversation off
because it's such an important one so
for the final conversation this talks
about where we're gonna go and so where
do we go from here as it pertains to
black and indigenous futures and what do
we envision for our communities and how
do we get there Amy do you want to start
us off.  Yea thank you this is the
occupation um here at Victoria Park this
is what my co-founder and partner are
envisioning land-based land back first
off but land based education or urban
indigenous black community members as
well we're expanding sort of our
scope into um elders from everywhere
coming in to do some virtual teaching if
that's how we're gonna do things
zoom these days but in particular you
know what I see for the future is is
exactly what's only what happened here
in the last four days we've had youth
come out open so disconnected from their
communities one youth visibly indigenous
said no I'm white and it actually broke
my heart like it broke my heart you know
we had a ceremony with some youth we
birthed a drum we've had fire keeping
around our sacred fire here just this is
exactly why we are doing these things I
had a wonderful conversation with
another youth who stopped by who had you know sort of lost track of their
teachings and they're coming every day
now these are these are the kinds of
things that we need defunding the police
the all the other services will impact
all of those things the mental health
the self esteem the identity the
reconnection to the land having spaces
partnered with us from community
organizations I'm just gonna say it rare
and the community gardens have that
clock back from us after the youth and
the indigenous community members do the
work to feed our community that's that's
we're at the whim of the landowners were
at the whim of the colonial governments
I think John I mentioned in the post
earlier you know when we want to use the
pavilion here in Victoria Park for our
solstice and equinox the equinox feasts or a national indigenous people day or
multicultural festival let's see we we
have to you know yet
in advance booked in advance pay we pay
$500 for the pavilion for an afternoon
which is not staffed there's no cleanup
it'll simply unlock the door we bring
our own food we do everything ourselves
but for five hundred dollars for a few
hours twice year national indigenous
people day we maybe get a piece of the
islands there's a number of other days
you know it's Father's Day as well other
groups get their own space we have to book in advance multicultural festival we
have to pay for a booth
we usually get one near the back of the
park near the religious booths and
everyone else gets to celebrate the
multicultural community here in in
Kitchener Waterloo but not ours
there's no we have no platform as a
matter of fact we had what we thought
was the center under the clock tower
space for a drum circle we didn't they
meant near the back of the park
so that's particularly what we see here
in this space being such a historically
um significance Bay to reclaim that to
Allow the youth a space that will not
be clawed back that we don't have to pay
for these our ROI ends and we could bury
you know everyone in some bureaucracy
there are Supreme Court decisions that
allow us to exercise our treaty rights
with absolutely every right to do so and
we are simply doing that here and I'll
speech a couple other things I've seen
in the chat there
I know Laurie pointed out the Neal stone
child on the starlight shores my brother
was taken on a starlight tour that's not
something that happens years and years
and years and years ago he made it back
to town before he froze to death that's
a very current reality unfortunately we
had an incident here where somebody had
to be taken to the hospital in an
ambulance and the dispatch obviously you
know she's an indigenous woman she was
picked up in Victoria Park and it went
horribly wrong from there this woman
does not use drugs or alcohol would
never and it was immediately assumed
that she had passed out she had od'd
something along those lines and the
treatment she received at st. Mary's
Hospital
was just abominable no I she was more
traumatized by that I think than be the
infant itself it just goes to show that
the disparities in these systems that we
have we can see them they are clearly
affecting us and I think that the
resources we put into policing should be
put into the systems that we had prior
that worked for all of us
my daughter has not stopped now dancing
drumming singing she has
been participating in every ceremony
she's sleeping like a baby in the tepee
I have lost weight I'm tan this is what
we need to be doing this is a hundred
percent what I envision the future to be
land back and not just symbolically
but I am not I'm not comfortable with oh
you can build a sweat lodge on the edge
of my farm and you know maybe a year
from now I might sell it and I might
change my mind or maybe I'll start
charging the banks and we're at the whim
of landholders and were're the
original caretakers of this space I do
unfortunately have to leave you at that
we do have some more folks joining us I
would invite you all to come down and
join us
we'll be drumming later we'll be here as
long as we can be as long as it takes
and unfortunately with their radio
silence from the city we're gonna
stretch it out as long as we can and
we're gonna continue to build and
continue to bring in more people more
elders and in then in solidarity with
our black community members as well
offering them this space all of our
resources supplies anything we need so
that we can begin teaching the youth
everything that we've lost and I'm gonna
go I have to leave it at I mean we're
about to have dinner
we're about to have a feast so I do have
to leave it at that but I will check out
the recording afterwards and you know
follow our page follow the hashtag land
back and I do appreciate being asked to
contribute to this conversation I know
that wind is its you probably can't even
hear me very well=
'm gonna take my leave of you
and I still appreciate this now on
Canada's go mutton thank you very much
thanks Amy
While amy is leaving i will turn it ruth
routes something that I think is
important to think about is I want to
ask people what they think about when
they think about indigenous futures and
I want to ask them what they think about
when they think about black futures in
the popular imagination there are no
black and indigenous people in the
future okay sci-fi sci-fi you know
fiction or entertainment
doesn't imagine a future that is
indigenous that is brown and black we we
don't exist in that future I think that
that says something about capitalism and
resource extraction and environmental
destruction and environmental racism
okay if I think about a black and
indigenous future I think about
about reclaiming much like you said
Laurie going back to reclaim knowledge
that has been stolen through the
transatlantic slave trade through
colonialism and through settler
colonialism histories of cooperation
that have been erased
as well as spoken to by ucn so I think
that it's really important this question
about futures because of it talks about
building a better way a gain I go back
to what I said before that all of us
have ways of living with each other
living on land that is not extractive
and cooperating with each other to build
safety and make sure there is enough for
all and we have to remember that that is
thinking back to before colonization and
settler colonialism happen and that is
thinking back to before whiteness was invented
Wee can tick all of that
knowledge we don't only have to look
but we can also then think forward into
building new systems new functional
systems that work for all of us okay the
here and now is a trap the focus on
capitalism the way that we are forced to
work under capitalism limits our
imagination it causes that failure of
the imagination that you mentioned ISM
in this time because of the way people
have been forced to slow down because of
COVID it's a lens it allows us to see
all the inequality that happens around
us in even more of a sharper relief in
highlight and it also has given those of
us who have the luxury of working from
home who aren't essential workers who
are put at risk by a COVID to think
deeply about how we want to live so it'sD
given those of us who have privilege the
luxury of time to think deeply they cut
in the ways we can't in the capitalist
grind and so we have a real opportunity
here those of us with privilege to think
about how we live with those who have
very little privilege and build a better
future for all of us with leadership
from those who are most affected by
everything that's going on right right
now and I'm gonna leave it at that
Thanks you know the Reserve System was
not intended to be here today it was not
intended to exist right
because indigenous peoples like we said
like we were not intended to still be
here there was no future Canada there
was no Canada 2020 that had indigenous
peoples in it and you know and so you
know when I hear you know others
complain about you know what are they
just you know come off the reserves or
there's floods or all these other things
that are occurring and stuff you know we
got to remember that the settlement
project actually did not imagine us just
to even exist so that should have never
happened when the treaties were made
there was no indigenous future so that
was never meant to have to uphold those
agreements but obviously that isn't the
case right I would also add though like
people need to take on so
much more accountability you know like I
said if you have not at least read the
summary report of the missing and
murdered indigenous women and girls in
two-spirit inquiry then you're not at
all ready to have a conversation with me
I wasn't born first of all knowing
because of the sanitization of the
education system wasn't born knowing who
I was so I had to learn first of all our
mainstream education system and how
Canada is set up in functions
I also took on all this learning I
actually took an entire four-year break
specifically between two of my
undergrads because I did two undergrads
because I didn't think indigenous
peoples went to graduate school so I have two under God's my Master's know now my PhD
but I took a four-year break to go learn
with elders in my community
intentionally and then also because of
the sanitization of black history and
contemporary realities in our education
system I am also trying putting in a
time to bring myself up to speed because
I need to know that this is part of this
is part of what brings us collectively
to where we are today and I just I don't
see as many settler Canadians
intergenerational settler Canadians
taking on and doing that work so they
aren't ready mostly to come to the table
to have conversations with us to take
action in the meantime we're doing that
work you know I see that in conversation
with with you know my peers here on the
call and and I'm not from this territory
so I also have additional work of
learning about the haldeman tract in the
territory that I'm in I'm from 2d6
northern Saskatchewan very different but
and we're like putting in that time and
effort it's not we're not it's not a
project it's it's not a it's really you
know thinking about the future and
actually you know a future that we are
able to thrive in not just still try to
survive or worse yet not exist in
Donna do something you want to add in
yes I did I think for me for us to move
For us to move forward for things to happen in a very positive way the individuals that we
need to have a conversation with need to
be the decision-makers
they need to be at the table and they
need to not provide us with lip service
they need to do true action and say if
this is what's going to happen in our
brothers and sisters who are black in
their community and they in the native
community we need to see the action
happening not waiting one year five
years ten years down the line before we
see anything positive happening in our
community we have been conversing with
many different decision-makers in our
communities
20 and during that time nothing has
happened in this region of Waterloo we
have to make change not not only us but
the broader community the mainstream
community that we call it because it has
been us in them for years and years and
years more than four years and I can
think of way before we had cities the
way that we do now before when the
visitors first came that's when
colonialism first started we need to get
back to a better place where it's not us
in them we need to speak for ourselves
we don't need non-indigenous non black
people to speak on our behalf we can
speak on our own behalf we have shared
over and over what our needs are and I
think it's been said previous that
don't come to us and ask us for us where
do we start what  are your needs are
you all all of them all those
All of those decision-makers already know that
All the way to the top they already know
what the needs are we need to
start seeing some action and we need to
start throwing bias and racism out the
window it's not about that it's not
about who's God and who's not the very
very common statement about when the
indigenous community applied for
anything or the indigenous people are
out in the community Oh
them Indians they had they get
everything for free we certainly do not
get anything for free we definitely do
not I would like to leave that with
everybody to think with before you come
to us and ask us how you can help come
to us with a solution already and say
this is what we want to do
you what do you think about it and we
can go from there thank you for inviting
me to this platform today thank you for
listening to my voice. Thank you Donna
those for your final comments there
I think Ciann had something she wanted to
add before we signed off yeah just to
build on something that Donna and Ruth
have said we've put our cards
on the table
we've made our demands the question now
is are you willing to part with white
privilege are you willing to part with
white settlerism and white supremacy in
terms of honoring those asks and 
yes and that is the question for me
on the table and that is what I'll leave
the audience with. I want to adjust one
more question that I see just popped up
about can the city provide that Park
Pavilion to indigenous black or minority
groups as a year-round Education Center
or museum that is not what we're asking
for here the land or the education camp
that Amy is running in the work that
we're doing is for us there's plenty of
resources out there for others to learn
about us and to learn about the history
of colonization violent colonization has
had on indigenous and black people in
this country so that's your work this is
our work and we're going ahead to do our
work. We're almost 15
minutes over but I wanted to see if
anyone had any final comment they wanted
to say I guess Fitsum and Ruth is there
anything you wanted to add if not we'll
turn it over to Elizabeth. Nothing other
than I'm deeply honored and excited that
these are the kinds of conversations
that are being centered I get to
talk in conversation with my
indigenous siblings and I get to talk
with my mentors and talk about
things that really matter
frankly things that have not been given
center stage in our region so we're on
the cusp of change but we need the
political will to really see that
through
what I want to touch on and saying you
know my good-byes for this
conversation as it comes to a close is
we aren't envisioning our futures as
only intertwined we're thinking about as
we walk in parallel beside each other
we're thinking about where we diverge
and where we come together right
we aren't coming up with this off the
cuff we are tying back into the deep
knowledge that exists within our
communities we are both on paths of
reclaiming because of all the
intentional disruption done by white
supremacy that separates us from
ourselves from our wealth and wells of
knowledge and we have work to do
together and apart and we are not
interested in a gaze upon that work that
is voyeuristic or looking to appropriate
or quite literally profit off of that
knowledge because of under capitalism
everything is monetized and people take
our knowledge and quite literally turn
it into profit that's not what we're
here for
I think that the only other thing I want
to say is that I put something in the
chat about if you have done your work
and you want to envision futures you are
welcome to envision futures with us if
you have done your work outside of that
I will say my goodbyes by saying what
good which has meaning. Thank you so much Ruth, Fitsum, Donna Ciann, Lori and to Andrea
for hosting this conversation I know
that I mentioned this is the first in a
series of these conversations I really
hope that when we come back next time we
can share the actions that have occurred
I think you've provided us so many
resources food for thought situations
that have occurred that quite frankly I
know I didn't know all about all of them
and so
I really really just want to thank you
so much for joining us
