Welcome friends to another edition of
Economic Update weekly program devoted
to the economic dimensions of our lives
jobs incomes debts our own those of our
children
I'm your host Richard Wolff. I've been a
professor of economics all my adult life
and so I hope I'm ready to offer you
these insights into what's going on in
the economy we live in and depend on and
it's all around us I want to begin today
with a kind of basic lesson and carry it
through the program the problems we have
economic problems we have stem
fundamentally from the particular
economic system we have capitalism it's
easy to get caught up in the headlines
of this or that particular policy and to
imagine that the politician speaking or
the journalist or the academic really do
control in some sense what's going on
they may wish to but they very rarely do
let's give some examples Donald Trump's
government, the Republican administration
he leads boasted that it's going to make
America great again by hitting
foreigners with tariffs and in
particular focusing on the Chinese our
ostensible competitor or worse and
hitting their goods that come into the
United States with a hefty tax that's
all a tariff is it's a tax on goods that
come into the country from outside not
at all surprising if you know anything
about the history of this sort of thing
the Chinese don't stand by idly and
watch this damage being done to them
because obviously if United States taxes
the goods coming from China they'll be
more expensive for Americans who have to
pay the price plus the tax and the
Americans will therefore buy fewer of
them which will hurt the Chinese
producers by the way that's true of one
of the Chinese producer is in fact the
Chinese citizen or as about half of the
stuff coming in from China, it's the
product of an American company that went
over there
for reasons we will return to in this
program. In any case the Chinese,
surprise-surprise,
retaliated: you put tariffs on all goods
coming into America, we will put tariffs
on your goods coming into China; and now
the unexpected, only again if you don't
follow this material, which is why I'm
presenting it to you: it turns out that
the three most important German
automobile companies Daimler-Benz, who
produces the Mercedes, the VW corporation
producing VW's and Audi's and the BMW
Corporation, I'm sure many of you are
very familiar with them, they all it
turns out have factories they built in
the United States to produce automobiles
not only for the American market, but
also for export you guessed it - China,
and if the Chinese retaliate by putting
tariffs on cars, which they have done,
because the government of the United
States put tariffs on their goods coming
in, guess what, it hurts the German car
companies because they can't sell cars
in China the way they used to, because of
the tariffs the Chinese retaliated with.
Tit-for-tat.
But here's the problem: China is the
biggest automobile market in the world
right now, and everybody knows that over
the next 10 to 20 years the Chinese
market will grow for cars bigger than
any other market in the world. The
Germans don't want to be squeezed out of
that opportunity, so guess what, they're
cutting back production of BMWs, VW's,
Audi's, Mercedes here in the United
States, moving production to China so
they don't have the problem of the
tariffs hurting their access to the
Chinese market; and guess what that means:
fewer jobs particularly in the American
south, a big bastion of mr. Trump and
the Republican Party's support, which
will now lose jobs, lose income, lose
taxes paid to local communities because
of the reaction, the retaliation what the
president said he would do, and what the
results are, the results are determined
by the system that works this way.
Another example of how the system is
crucial is, we're reading all about mr.
Trump's noisy activities in Europe; he's
dishing Europeans, making deals with the
Russians, and everybody's shifting
alliances. We used to be with these
people, they used to be with those people;
it's shifting. The alliances of
capitalists are always shifting. When
Russia went back to capitalism from the
USSR back in 1989, they became a
capitalist country, like every other and
they're looking around for deals and
alliances like every other capitalist
country and so the alliances shift but
for most of us that doesn't make much
difference it's the same system it's
just its players are changing uniforms
and changing numbers but it's the same
game it's the same system what happens
to working people the majority will be
affected by this system not by the
particular alliances among them there
are of course examples where policies do
affect the system as a whole the people
and not just the shakers and one example
is the China, excuse me, the Irish, the Irish
parliament recently made a decision:
the government's funds will no longer be
invested in any company that is engaged
in finding or processing fossil fuels.
Their commitment to a future that isn't
polluted for everybody is going to be
now enacted. Virtually unanimous, all the
major parties agreed. There's an example
of a policy that isn't about working out
some deal among the people who run the
system it's an actual real change for
most
people now back to the way the system
works as if we needed a lesson well
sometimes good things happen and when
they do I want to bring them to your
attention you may not know the name Bob
Ferguson he's the Attorney General in
the state of Washington and he just
worked out a deal and got fast food
companies I'm gonna give you the list of
them to agree to something that he would
have imposed on them legally if they
hadn't agreed anyway here's the thing
that they've been doing that the
Attorney General of Washington Bob
Ferguson says is a no-no each of the
companies let me give you the list of
them cuz you know them very well
McDonald's the hamburger folks Auntie
Anne's Arby's Carl's jr. Jimmy John's
Cinnabon and Buffalo Wild Wings those
are the companies who signed the deal
with the Attorney General of Washington
and the deal says they will no longer
write contracts with the franchisees the
local people who operate the restaurants
the thousands of them that these
companies run what was the deal that
these franchisees had going well you'll
be interested to know they wouldn't hire
people from one another in other words
if franchisee number one mr. Smith a lot
of McDonald's in a city like Seattle if
someone wanted to leave mr. Smith's
McDonald's and go get a better job at
another McDonald's he couldn't get the
job they had a deal no poaching they
called it from one another's workers
well you know what that means it means
that a worker who haven't gotten some
experience at one McDonald's would like
to get a higher salary because he knows
how to do the job better at another
McDonald's couldn't get such a job now
here's what I like about this story and
why I tell you number one this is what's
called a restraint of trade you can't do
that either people are free or they're
not and if you're free it means you can
leave one job and go get another without
a deal among the employers that they
won't hire you number two
those employers of the people who love
to tell you about the virtues of a free
market everybody should be free to buy
and sell whenever they want to except if
it's my employee looking to get a better
deal because then I'll have to pay him
more to keep him because he could get a
better job someplace else
so let's prevent him from getting a
better job at another outlet of the
company he's learned to work in
restraint of trade no free market
because it's profitable the system makes
corporations work like this the system
makes employers work like this something
that good people are bad people they do
what the system rewards them for and
that's why they behave like this and
sure one state Washington got a few of
these companies to stop doing something
so flagrantly bad for working people and
just good for their profits but there
are lots of other companies that haven't
signed on yet and there are 49 other
states beside Washington some of whom
had do this but many of whom don't and
so you see the system works in ways like
this and even if you got it to stop with
a federal law there'd be 50,000 other
things that employers would be doing to
screw the people again not because
they're good or bad people because
that's what the system rewards well as
we wind down this first half of the
program there's a new feature I didn't
know quite what to call it it bothered
me so much I knew I would talk to you
about it
so for lack of a better term I've
decided to call it stunning crap yes you
heard that correctly let me tell you
what a mean when mr. Trump was over in
Europe this last week he attacked
Germany and mrs. Merkel their leader in
particular he also attacked Teresa may
the leader of Brittany attacks a lot of
folks as you've probably noticed but
here's what he did he attacked the
Germans and he was the argument they buy
a lot of gas he didn't get the quantity
quite right but who quibbles they buy a
lot of gas from Russia and they pay
Russia a lot of money so mr. Trump had
the nerve to say you're not an
independent
country he said you've been captured by
Russia you're controlled by Russia
because you pay them all that money and
you depend on their gas I found this
absolutely stunning although most of the
mainstream media didn't seem to catch it
and so I'm telling you here what am I
telling you yes the Russians sell gas to
Germany and get lots of money billions
of dollars from the Germans but that's
small potatoes compared to the amount of
money the United States sends regularly
to the People's Republic of China and I
know this Americans seem not to want to
face that here let's go through it the
United States runs a deficit it spends
more money as a government and it takes
in in taxes and the way it does that is
to borrow the difference from whom does
it borrow anybody willing to lend who's
the biggest lender to the United States
over recent decades the People's
Republic of China they own over a
trillion dollars more or less of
America's public debt and you know how
they hold that money in the form of
Treasury securities and you know what
the federal government has to do it has
to pay interest on those Treasury
securities to anybody who owns them the
biggest recipient of many billions of
dollars every year paid out by the
United States government for its debt is
the People's Republic of China we are
more dependent on them in this way than
the Germans are for Russian gas and oil
so who's calling who dependent and
captured depends only on having a press
and a public that doesn't know what it
ought to know and so allows things to be
said that have no justification at all
and here's another one that's why I call
it stunning crap it goes like this
those nasty Chinese people have been
stealing intellectual property
technologies that we developed here in
the United States they have somehow
quote-unquote stolen now let's do the
economics folks
nobody stole anything here's the way it
works an American company produces some
commodity and they want to sell it in
China because the Chinese are the
biggest growing market in the world and
they say we would like to go to China to
produce it because China has very low
wages that's a wonderful combination a
tremendous growing market on the one
hand and low wages so the American
companies come in and say we'd like to
go
the Chinese say fine but in order to
come here and use our workers and sell
to our people you have to share your
technology your call you don't want to
do it don't come you want to do it
that's the deal
nobody stole anything and by the way
this is what all poor countries have
always done for a thousand years the
United States did it with England when
we were a small poor country well we've
come to the end of the first half of our
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stay with us we'll be right back welcome
back friends to the second half of
economic update well I am very happy
today to welcome to the microphone with
us Moumita Ahmed she is the co-founder
of Millennials for Revolution which is
the new name for what was Millennials
for Bernie Bernie Sanders she's a
digital campaign strategist working in
Queens New York City she's also a member
of the New York progressive Action
Network & of Democratic socialists of
America generally known as DSA, so it's with enormous interest that
we're going to explore what this
organization is about what it seeks to
do and what that might mean for the
American economy welcome very much
marina for joining me
let's start with the simplest why do you
call it Millennials for revolution make
sure that we all understand what you
mean by they very term Millennials who
are they
well Millennials are people like me
young people between the age of 25 34
generally are people with student debt
and the issues facing Millennials today
and so that's the Millennials and then
we're called Millennials for revolution
because we are a group of Millennials
who came together during the Bernie
Sanders campaign to support his bid for
presidents President and afterwards we
decided to continue the political
revolution so we kept the revolution in
the name but we wanted to accept a
larger movement that exists that whether
it's against Trump their resistance
whether it's the Democratic Socialist
everyone that's fighting to make this
country a better place to live in all
right so let me begin by asking you to
tell us is it your feeling from what
you've looked at at your experience that
folks your age Millennials are somehow
more progressive for lack of a better
term than other parts of the age
distribution is there really a
difference in the mentality the attitude
towards politics in this society is that
the case and tell us a little bit about
it absolutely there's a new YouGov poll
that came out that showed 42%
Millennials would like to live in a
socialist world a greater percentage of
Millennials lean progressive they voted
for Bernie Sanders who had a platform
that was very progressive and
left-leaning than most Democrats so I
think that we do we are more progressive
than the previous generation we are also
a lot more diverse
so we care about certain issues that
previous generations are not as you know
like great you know systemic racism like
we know that we the previous generation
we've passed civil rights but the work
that still needs to be done when it
comes to like income inequality and like
the prison system and how people of
color and immigrants are treated how
we're institutionally institutionally
oppressed or not given the same rights
as other people and the nuance of it a
lot of people won't from the previous
generations do not understand because
they see it as well people aren't saying
the n-word in public so that means
racism is gone but that's not true like
we throw up we're like we have the
largest prison system in the world and
we're incarcerated people of color and
higher rates than any other races so
that's something Millennials deeply care
about our group especially care a lot
about that all right this is a program
about economics so I'm gonna tilt a
little bit and ask you to talk about
that in a way that hasn't happened
almost for half a century in the United
States people are now willing to talk
about capitalism the system that we have
and largely thanks to Bernie I mean
there were other factors too but Bernie
certainly did by not running away from
the label socialist to make it possible
for people to begin to think and even
talk publicly tell me Millennials for
revolution what is the approach of the
kind of Millennials that gather around
what you're trying to do what do they
feel about capitalism the system we have
before we go to the alternative is there
a position about capitalism or at least
can you describe for us how capitalism
is is understood and and what people
feel about it I think our group
specifically fee are pretty
anti-capitalist in that we reject
capitalism as a system that
to be saved or fixed I think as the
system we believe it's unsustainable
because of the crises with our
environment it doesn't address the issue
of climate change properly also this the
way the system is designed it is
designed to like give CEOs and the
bosses more more leverage and profit
over the workers and the working class
Americans who actually provide the labor
to keep our economy going who are
actually the ones driving the profit
they're not getting any of the profit or
that's being made by be CEOs they're
making 300 times more than the average
American worker which is Inc
it's an unbelievable level of inequality
that exists and capitalism only
perpetuates it further which is why we
believe that since that's completely
unsustainable system and you know we are
we don't believe in labels we believe in
like issues and so to us like under
capitalism we don't have a health care
system like we have a market health care
system and it's hurting working-class
Americans so these CEOs they go in right
and they don't give any they don't give
a living a living wage to their workers
they don't give the workers any rights
and then on top of that they buy
politicians to pass policies to benefit
them instead of the workers who put in
their labor right like the labor that
increases their profit the reason why
they make profit is because people are
working ok now let me turn it around the
issue of being interested in socialism
the well it raises immediately questions
for me and I think for many in our
audiences first what do you mean by so
what what is like you the answer the
question why you are opposed to
capitalism and that's clear what is it
about socialism or the kind of socialism
let's say
you have in your mind what is it you
mean by that as the thing you're
interested in has an alternative tell us
a little bit about that I think for us
the reason why we believe in Amer so
that believe in socialism as the humane
sustainable system that needs to replace
capitalism is because we believe that
government should be organized in a way
that takes the that prioritizes workers
and working-class Americans and people
at the bottom of the who are at the
bottom of like the economic system and
and organizes our government to help
those people and so we we see socialism
is just like an approach at ending you
know tackling certain issues whether
it's income inequality whether it's
racism whether it's climate change
currently that is not the approach
currently the donor class their views
are being taken into consideration over
working-class Americans so we just see
socialism as a master redistribution of
like you know that imbalance like
actually balancing the scale and a
redistribution of like whether it's
wealth or power to working-class
Americans who we are the majority we are
the 99%
they're the top 1% so you know that's
why I like socialism it's the approach
it's that Marxist approach of looking at
things that's like there is an
inequality issue there is a class that a
billionaire class and a working class
and we need to like about work
government needs to make sure that the
scales are like the it's even that's
equal as equal as it could be to help
working-class people oh ok that's clear
and that's good let me ask let me push
you a little bit ok here we have now a
year and a half or more since the end of
the election and in the election for
people who like capitalism let's say
they found at least a person who got a
lot of votes named Donald Trump
and folks like you found somebody who
got more votes than anyone expected he
ever could when he started Bernie
Sanders what do you think about these
two as standard bearers as symbols of
which way the country could go now there
were a year and a half later that how do
Millennials for revolution respond to
Trump and Bernie now that we've had a
year and a half since the vote I think
we are responding the way we should be
responding by electing Millennials who
are democratic socialists into office
like Alexandria Ocasio and because the
argument is Bernie was way too radical
and that's why he didn't he didn't win
and we are proving the establishment
wrong we are showing them no like
everything Bernie was saying resonated
with thousands of people especially
people who never voted or weren't voting
weren't engaged but are you know part of
this country just as much as all the
other people that do vote and so our
response is to push people more further
to the left even to the left of Bernie
on some issues and then with Donald
Trump we see him as sort of validating
what we already knew about this system a
lot of people treat Donald Trump as an
anomaly we don't see him as the anomaly
we just see him as a symptom of were a
you know of capitalism of late stage
capitalism essentially yeah okay here's
a question in a way that you may get
often I don't know used to be we would
hear this question a lot and the idea
goes like this when you're young you can
somehow be critical of society but
somehow as you get older you lose it and
almost with age comes the loss of your
radicalism or your social criticism and
you become stodgy and status quo
oriented from your vantage point where
you are now do you think the Millennials
of your generation are headed in
for direction will they hold on to this
in the years to come and it's a guess I
mean no one knows the future but what's
your feeling is this is this deeply
enough rooted that this really is a
change in what America is becoming both
in its head and its actuality that isn't
gonna be faded away with time absolutely
I would say I can't speak for everyone
but I would say that I started out a lot
less radical in my approach to politics
than most people and I would actually
most people are like me where they
supported Obama I supported Barack Obama
I canvassed for him I organized for him
when I was 18 years old and I've voted
it within the Democratic Party but over
time I just got really tired of their
establishment politics where they
weren't addressing things that actually
working-class Americans were dealing
with like income inequality like they
had nothing to say about that and the
wall street bank bailouts really you
know hip hit it home for me and with
climate change increasingly getting
worse and worse I think more of us are
going to be looking towards a more
radical approach to changing our systems
I don't think it's gonna become less
like diluted and mealy-mouthed you know
I think we're going to keep becoming
more and more radical as a generation
well you know I I always come to this
point in our interviews where I have to
apologize to the guests like I'm going
to do with you that we've come to the
end of this section of the program and I
really want to thank you for joining us
and telling us about an important
organization with an important and
society changing orientation so thank
you very much for enjoying enjoying I
hope yeah joining us thank you thank you
so much and for all of you I want to
thank you for joining us as well and to
remind you that make use of our websites
democracy at work dot info join us again
next week when we will run
this program again and I also want to
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to you again next week
