SUZANNE COX: Hi everyone.
Thanks for coming.
I'm Suzanne Cox.
I'm the program
director of the Master
of Science and
Biomedical Informatics
here at the
University of Chicago.
Thanks so much for joining us.
And I want to say
hi to everybody
who's on Facebook joining
us in the live stream.
Thank you so much
for joining us.
This is our monthly
seminar series
that we have every month.
This time it's
for special topics
in biomedical
informatics, and we're
so glad that you all
could join us tonight
for this special presentation.
We have a great panel
put together tonight.
We're going to be discussing
health care, innovation,
and entrepreneurship
around informatics.
So I'm going to introduce
the panelists really quickly,
and then they're going to
introduce themselves and talk
a little bit more about
their organizations
as we get started.
And then moderating tonight
is our faculty director
Sam Volchenboum, who's
a pediatric oncologist
at the University
of Chicago Medicine.
He's also the director of the
Center for Research informatics
at the University.
And he is the creator
of our master's program,
and we're really grateful
that he could come tonight.
He's also an entrepreneur.
He'll tell you more about
his background as well.
So on the panel tonight,
we have Steve Lehmann,
who's assistant director at the
University of Chicago Polsky
Center, which is our
Center for Innovation
and Entrepreneurship.
We have Arun Bhatia, who's the
program director from MATTER.
And we have Dr.
Cheng-Kai Kao, who
is a hospitalist at the
University of Chicago Medicine.
He's the associate
CMIO at the hospital,
and he's also an
instructor in our program.
And he teaches our health
innovation entrepreneurship
class.
So thank you so
much for joining us.
I'm going to go ahead
and turn it over
to you guys to do a little
introduction of yourself,
and to Sam who'll be moderating.
Thanks.
SAMUEL VOLCHENBOUM: Great.
Thanks, Suzanne.
So I'm really happy
everybody came out tonight,
and I'm glad that we have
this great panel together.
What I'd like to do is I want
to start by having everyone,
myself included, give a
little bit of our origin story
so that you can
hear how each of us
got to this point in our
careers because I think
it's useful for
other people to hear
the serendipitous
and creative routes
that people have taken
to get where they are.
And then we'll spend
most of the time,
I think, talking about
some of the issues
around entrepreneurship and
innovation in health care.
And I think you'll
get a lot of insight
from the folks that are
here, and I'm looking forward
to hearing your questions.
A couple of things about
the rules of engagement--
I would hope that people will
feel free to raise their hands
and ask questions.
We'll have a mic to pass around.
I can repeat the questions.
You can use the
online joinqa.com
to ask questions as well.
And I think we have
a lot of people
that are watching this
virtually that will
want to ask questions that way.
So with that being said,
I think we'll get started.
So for myself, I'm a
pediatric oncologist.
So I went to school
to be a physician
and to take care of
kids with cancer.
And during that
process, I was always
driven to try to do more
things in automated fashion.
And this is now
20, 25 years ago.
So there wasn't a
lot of automated ways
or electronic ways
of doing things.
But I always found
myself drawn to trying
to come up with better
ways to make things happen.
And I'm sure Kai
has similar stories
where for the first
time you take a note
and write it and put a piece
of paper through the printer
and in the hospital
everybody thinks
you're a wizard because you've
written this electronic note.
I think we all have
had those experiences,
and we got to see the revolution
of electronic health records--
both the good and the bad.
And we have a lot of
experiences from that.
So when I finished
my oncology training,
I went ahead and
formalized my education
by doing a master's in
biomedical informatics.
And that really
gave me the tools
that I needed then
to actually speak
with some authority on some
of these important issues
around security and privacy
and HIPAA compliance and all
the things that are
the tools of our trade
that are so important,
things that you would also
learn going through
our curriculum that
are going to be so important to
help you develop this career.
And then for the
last 10 years, I've
been at the
University of Chicago.
And for the last six, I've
been running the Center
for Research informatics.
And CRI is a 40 person group
in the biological sciences
division that really
crosscuts along
many different areas important
to informatics research.
We do high
performance computing.
We do HIPAA compliant storage.
We have applications
development.
We run a data warehouse.
We do bioinformatics.
And by having all these
things under one roof,
we're able to really
matrix our capabilities
and able to do things in
a much more nimble fashion
than many groups because
we can all work together.
It's also given me a
front seat to a lot
of interesting entrepreneurship
and commercialization
opportunities, seeing many
things come through our center
that people use our
group to get data
to develop a research
project which
then can turn into a business.
A great example is Donna
[? Adelson's ?] company
where they took data
from our data warehouse
and developed an algorithm
that could actually
predict patients that were
going to have a cardiac arrest.
And they were only able
to develop this prediction
algorithm by using some really
well curated data from our data
warehouse.
And then by using that data
and developing an algorithm,
Donna was able to start a
very successful company that's
based on using this algorithm
to detect cardiac arrest.
So that's given me
a lot of incentive
to try to be more involved
in these activities
because I can see this is
a really good jumping off
point for people that
want to start businesses.
For my own personal
interests, I'm
very much interested
in clinical trials
and how clinical trials are
run and how we execute them.
There's a lot of inefficiencies
in the clinical trial process.
And one of the things
that I noticed early on
was that we continue
to collect data
for clinical trials in
a very inefficient way
through paper based forms
and through paper surveys.
And so about 2
and 1/2 years ago,
I started a company
called Litmus Health that
is dedicated to using
Fitbits and other wearables
to collect data
for clinical trials
and to do so in a way
that's standardized
and allows the data to be
then used for clinical trials
and then to be shared amongst
the various regulatory agencies
that need those data.
And as a startup, we
have the same problems
that all startups
have with funding
and CTOs that come and go
and all sorts of issues.
But those are all the things
that we'll hear about tonight
and all the issues that come
whenever you start a business.
So that's my story.
And I think I'd like
to go on the line.
I know that everybody
here has a rich history
that they could share.
So if everybody could
spend sort of three
to five minutes going through
how you got to-- you know
got to talk as fast as I
do if you don't want to.
Kai, why don't you why
don't you kick it off?
CHENG-KAI KAO: Thank you, Sam.
Hello, everyone.
Good evening.
Thank you so much for coming.
So my name is Cheng-Kai Kao.
I usually just go by Kai.
Makes it easier for everyone.
I am an internist by
training as also serves
as associates in my own minds
institution, University Chicago
Medicine.
So in this role, I got contacted
by multiple different setups.
When I say setups, I'm talking
about brand new companies
about also sometimes
bigger companies spin off.
And sometimes I think that
some of these products
are amazing ideas.
But sometimes some of these
ideas are just not so great.
And you can see
there's a clear gap
between the solution
they provide
and the problem
they want to solve.
So the reason why I started
this course about health care
innovation entrepreneurship
being the massive program
is hoping that we
can teach students
how to define and
discover a problem for us
before you come
up with a solution
and try to find a
problem to solve.
Because more commonly,
for example, 3-D is hot,
and people starting
to think about it--
can we 3-D print everything.
And then so you really
apply a solution
and try to find a
problem to solve.
But what happens in that
regard is the newest technology
is not always the best
solution for everything.
So you often backfire
later on because there's
a better solution, maybe
much easier, much cheaper.
And eventually, the
startup wouldn't
be successful in the market.
So this is something we want
to teach our students for.
And on top of that, Informatics
has been my passion.
It really helped me a
lot in clinical trials,
helped me to launch the
Telemedicine Program
for international patients.
There's a lot of applications,
a lot of room for innovation.
One thing I open saying
the class is not everyone
need to be entrepreneurs,
but every one of us
should try to be an
innovator in whatever we do,
try to improve things.
It doesn't need to be a company.
But whatever we do,
whatever innovate
can make our life or our
colleagues' lives better.
Thank you.
SAMUEL VOLCHENBOUM: Thanks, Kai.
ARUN BHATIA: OK, good
evening, everyone.
Arun Bhatia from MATTER.
Glad To have you.
Such a full room tonight.
This is great.
So a little bit about
my background-- actually
entrepreneurship was probably
the last thing on my mind
when I first started
off my career.
So I actually started
off in the life sciences.
I was a biochemistry biology
undergrad, did my master's
degree in biotechnology and
worked in academic research
for a number of years
down in St. Louis, up here
at Northwestern, really
interested in the science.
Wasn't terribly good
actually at the bench,
but was really interested
in the science.
Got to learn a little
bit more about what
folks do on the business side.
I was really
interested-- actually,
it was my last class
in my master's program.
I actually took
a marketing class
as part of my
biotechnology program
as strange as that sounds.
And that was sort
of my first foray
into anything commercial,
anything business.
Very interesting--
started to learn
and network with folks who are
on the business side of biotech
and pharma and actually,
through the Graham School,
came here and actually took
a couple of classes at Booth
as a non-degree student,
just to learn what
is business school all about.
And I actually fell in love with
the culture of business school
and so decided to kind of
leverage my science background
and pursue my business
degree here at Booth.
I started off in working in a
very small consulting group.
It's not even around anymore.
It was called Illinois
Technology Development
Alliance, and it was a group--
kind of a consulting group--
that worked with entrepreneurs
in our community trying
to prop up entrepreneurship
in our community.
And that's really
where I started
learning about what
a business plan was,
how to evaluate it, what
do startup companies need
to do as they grow up, and
really just try to leverage
my science understanding
with my business background
to help some of these companies.
Spent about six years after
that at Baxter Health Care
in our innovation strategy
group and our venture group.
And these were many
companies within Baxter
that we were trying
to organically grow.
So I had an opportunity
to work on a couple
of therapeutic programs there.
And then spent some
time at a group
called Illinois Ventures,
which is a venture arm
of the University of Illinois--
again, working with
faculty entrepreneurs,
trying to spin off technologies
out of the university.
And then came to a MATTER, where
basically I'm working with--
again, having come
from the industry
side and the
entrepreneurial side,
trying to link entrepreneurs
with industry in our community.
One thing that we have
in Chicago that's amazing
is all of these resources
when you look at payers,
when you look at pharma,
you look at health systems,
you look at physician
associations, institutions
research institutions,
best business schools
in the country.
It's amazing when you think
about Chicago all the resources
that we have here.
They aren't terribly
connected well, though,
and that's where I
think MATTER comes in.
And some of the
success that MATTER
has had over the
last couple of years
has been really linking
those communities together.
And the premise really
there is, if you're
an entrepreneur, a health
entrepreneur, IT entrepreneur,
but you're interested
in Health Care.
You don't create those
solutions in a bubble.
You don't do it in a vacuum.
You don't do it in a garage.
You've got to be at
the table with pharma,
with health systems,
with payers,
with patients providers.
There are so many
constituents in health care.
That's what makes it both
challenging and very exciting
as well.
And so we help our
entrepreneurs essentially make
those make those connections.
STEVE LEHMANN: Good
evening, everyone.
I'm Steve Lehmann,
the assistant director
of the Chicago Innovation Fund.
I work helping put the first
equity round of financing
into startups based
on university research
both at the
University of Chicago
but also our national labs--
Argone, Fermi, and the
Marine biological laboratory.
I've been in this role
for about two years
and my pathway into it is
probably the most serendipitous
and the least biotechy.
So I started my
undergrad undecided
whether I wanted to be
an aerospace engineer
or a theologian.
So I studied both mechanical
engineering and theology.
And the recession
pushed me into theology
because I was going to
work for Caterpillar,
and they said, sorry, we're
laying off 10,000 people.
So I studied theology
abroad at Oxford University
and then came back and decided
that I needed to make money
and bounced around between a
couple of different industries
and focused mostly
on social enterprise
and social entrepreneurship
in the emerging economies
and in international
development.
My story led me eventually back
to getting an MBA at Notre Dame
and that, since then--
the last seven, eight years--
I've been working
on putting together
startups around deep
technologies, mostly not
health care until
the last two years,
but always founded on really
deep intellectual property.
Before coming to U Chicago, I
worked for a consulting firm
here in the city
called Ocean Tomo
and helped a bunch of
different companies
figure out how to take
their intellectual property
and make companies
out of them or to make
other decisions to buy and
sell intellectual property as
needed.
And I'm really interested in
the early stages of turning
a great idea into a company--
what are the
different factors that
make an idea grow, how do you
put the right team around it,
how do you support it
in all the right ways.
I love doing that.
And the last two
years, I've just
been super focused on getting
up to speed in biotech.
So I'm the person on the
panel with absolutely
no educational
background, but who
is deeply interested
in the space
and coming up to speed
as quickly as I can.
SAMUEL VOLCHENBOUM: Great.
Thank you for those intros.
I have a few of
my own questions,
and I'll turn it over to
the audience in a second.
And you can also put
your questions during QA.
One question that I always get--
in my own startup,
I've often felt
like I've been
behind the eight ball
in not understanding term
sheets and equity, investing,
and seed rounds.
And a lot of it's been--
I feel like I'm learning
it after the fact,
I'm learning it too late.
And at one point in my career,
I thought, well, maybe I
should get another degree.
Maybe I should get
an MBA or something.
And I think I got good
advice where people said
don't get an MBA, read
a book, and everybody
has their favorite book
about starting a business.
But I do think it's
important to try
to figure out what extra
training should people get.
So should people get MBAs?
Should they get
public health master,
or should they get
statistics training?
What do you recommend to
people when they come to you
and say, hey, I need
to fill in some gaps
and an MBA seems
like an easy way out,
but what kinds of
things do you tell them?
I'm sure you all have a
perspective on this, but Steve?
STEVE LEHMANN: Sure, yeah.
So one of my friends
in the audience
is a perfect example here--
Tim, who's a
Northwestern student who
decided that he wanted to
get some startup experience
and didn't even let
institutional allegiances
get in his way from
jumping into a startup.
And he got involved
with the program we
ran last summer at
the Polsky Center
and jumped right into
one of our startups
called O2M and just kind
of open arms and said,
I'm willing to do
whatever needs to be
done in order to grab the
experience that I need to get.
And I love getting that hands
on experience much better
than reading a book, definitely
better than getting an MBA.
He's just an awesome example.
SAMUEL VOLCHENBOUM: Arun.
ARUN BHATIA: Yeah, so I think,
especially in health care--
as I sort of mentioned--
there are so many
different skill sets
that are going to be needed.
And so ultimately,
you can't necessarily
be an expert in all fields.
And I think that, for everybody,
it's a different formula.
There's not a one size fits all.
But I think what
I've seen where I've
seen entrepreneurs
excel is where they have
functional experience or
expertise in one area,
whether it's finance,
whether it's bioinformatics,
whether it's accounting.
Whatever it might be, that
piece of the puzzle and sort
of the entrepreneurship
puzzle, they own that.
They are an expert in that.
But then it's sort
of the old cliche
if you surround yourself
with really smart people.
And I think understanding
things like term sheets,
understanding the business
side, understanding
the bioinformatics side,
I think exposing yourself
to those areas, if those are
not your functional areas
of expertise, understanding
enough about what's
happening in the landscape
to be able to have
an intelligent conversation
is important-- not necessarily
a degree, but understanding
when you're talking to somebody,
OK, this is really where I
need to build more expertise.
I need an expert
in bioinformatics
based on whatever it
is you're building.
So I think it's functional
expertise in one area,
having enough exposure of what's
going on in the other areas,
but then surrounding yourself
with smart people, people
that you trust who have
that functional expertise
to fill in the gaps.
CHENG-KAI KAO:
Yeah, I think this
is where all these
courses come into play
because the opportunity
go out fast.
And two years later, once
you finish your degree,
the opportunities
probably really gone.
So timing is important.
So I think you really want to
get to know what you really
need to know real quick.
This why these courses--
MATTER also offers
a lot of workshops,
and there's lot of
courses online as well.
And at some point, when
your company goal be bigger,
you really want to work with
some dedicated resources.
For example, if you
are in the incubator,
they offer accountant
services and all that.
So it is where you want to allow
all the resources around you.
And this are where
we want to help
you to plug into the
ecosystem that the university
or MATTER can provide.
SAMUEL VOLCHENBOUM: Yet
despite all these resources,
one of the most
common problems I see
is people come with ideas where
there is a critical sector
that they haven't engaged.
And they'll say, we want to
build the latest and greatest
tool to do x, but they haven't
talked to the physicians
or they haven't
talked to the patients
or they haven't
talked to the nurses.
And they have the
tech all worked out
and they have built
this beautiful app,
but yet they haven't talked
to one of the most critical
stakeholders.
And I think you touched on
this in your opening comments--
you how do you
sort of push groups
in the right direction
to make sure that they--
in the right way
to say, hey, maybe
you should get a
doctor or a nurse
or whatever happens to be
on board on your company.
I mean, you guys see
this much more than I do.
ARUN BHATIA: Yeah, I would say,
from a resource standpoint,
I think there are exercises
that you go through
to say, OK, if
you're a technologist
and you have an
idea, typically you
tend to be really focused on
the technology, which is good.
That's where you should be if
that's where your expertise is.
I found that, when
you go out and start
talking with potential
customers, that's
one way to really
figure out very quickly,
is this the only person
I need to be talking to
or are there other folks, other
stakeholders in that puzzle
that I need to be
reaching out to.
I think it's getting
out of that shell
to say, OK, I'm just
in a technology lens.
I've got a technology,
and they will come.
But I think it's actually
sort of pausing sometimes
on the technology and
saying, let me just go out
and start talking to people,
start talking to customers,
start talking to users.
If I'm building something
that I think ultimately
will be sold into
a hospital, let
me go talk to a health
system, let me go talk to--
and then even within
a health system,
it's not just the
physician or the nurse.
They might look at
technology very differently
than a CFO or a CIO within
the hospital might look at.
So really understanding,
without even
knowing who the stakeholders
are-- if you are saying,
I think this is something I want
to go sell into a health system
or something a hospital
would buy, go talk to people
in a hospital and
go figure out--
and not to pitch
your idea, but to say
this is a problem
that I've identified,
have you seen the same problem?
Are you solving that
same problem today?
How are you addressing it?
And you might be
surprised with the answer.
Some people might say,
yeah, that's a problem,
but we found a really
quick work around,
and we don't need anything
new to solve that.
So you'll very
quickly start to learn
how people are
approaching that problem,
how they're solving it, and
who the stakeholders are
that really have a decision in
whether that technology gets
adopted.
STEVE LEHMANN: Yeah, you'll
be surprised at the people
that you can actually get on the
phone if you're gritty about it
and you're willing
to put yourself
in uncomfortable positions.
I totally agree it's all about
getting out there and engaging
with the marketplace.
There are so many
cliches about this,
but ideas don't survive
their first contact
with the real marketplace.
So get out there and start
cycling through and refining
your idea as you talk to folks.
One of the courses that we run
at the Polsky Center, which
Sam has been involved in
I think multiple times
is called I-Corps.
And one of the things that they
say at the national I-Corps
level is you get bonus points
if, as you're reaching out
to the market, you get
kicked out of a building
or you get pushed out of some
sort of meeting or you get
roughed up a little
bit because that's
what successful
entrepreneurship looks like.
It looks like forcing your
way into the executive suite
of a building.
Now you probably
don't want to be doing
that in a hospital setting.
But getting out there,
pushing into the meetings
that you actually need to have--
people generally are
receptive if you're
willing to take that
gritty path and then ask
the right questions.
SAMUEL VOLCHENBOUM: Yeah,
I've gotten pushed out
of some pretty nice
offices in my time
from venture capitalists.
One of the questions
that came in was,
what's unique to starting
in informatics based company
versus say one that's based
on biotechnology or a drug
or something else?
What are some of the unique
challenges that people face?
Maybe you could all
weigh in on this.
CHENG-KAI KAO: I would
say for informatics,
I wouldn't say it's necessary
easier, but at least--
for example, the funds that
you need to jump start up,
and sometimes, it's
easier to do the testing
because there's other things
you can do online, like AP
testing and all that.
It's easy to do some
experiment to test it
out and see whether this works.
But I think the
biggest challenge
is it's often hard to find
who is the person you really
want to talk to.
For example, if you
are developing a drug--
you're developing
a cardiology drug,
you know you want to
talk to cardiologists.
But when you developing
informatics tool,
a lot of people
don't know who they
should talk to in
an organization, who
would look at this product
and say this is that we need.
So I think it's
important to find
your first group of customers.
And I think later
on, we can touch base
how you engage an academic
medical center, which
is where you really want to
talk to the person who really is
going to be the first user of
your products and who also,
in a position, that can voice
for you in an organization.
And that's really how you
get your product across
and, finally, hopefully make a
deal always in an organization.
ARUN BHATIA: Yeah, I would
say certainly the application
is different-- bioinformatics
tool versus a drug or a device.
You have to think about
regulatory reimbursement.
There are different
issues there.
Customer base is different.
But I would actually argue that
the process is really quite
similar, a fundamental
process of identifying a need,
understanding how that's
being addressed today,
understanding what the work
around is for that problem
today, how are folks
addressing that,
and understanding what the value
proposition of your technology
is-- are you really
solving a problem?
And that is a big cliche.
A lot of people say,
understand your market.
And we sort of toss
that out there as,
yeah, just go
understand your market.
But it's surprising to
me how few people really
understand that or really do
that well and really challenge
themselves.
Oftentimes if I'm building
a technology, I have bias.
I'm going to go talk
to the people who
I think are going
to agree with me
and say that my
technology is good
and who are going to
pat me on the back.
And to Steve's point,
you want to go talk
to those people who
say you're full of BS.
You want to hear that challenge.
So I think underlying
process of building
a company of validating your
solution, validating the need,
talking to your
customer-- that process
is almost the same
regardless of application.
But as you start to think
about the technical pieces
of the regulatory process,
the reimbursement process,
the sales process--
those obviously will differ
a little bit from industry
to industry.
STEVE LEHMANN: Yet what I
love about bioinformatics
is that it can scale quickly.
I look at a lot of
pharma related deals,
a lot of biotech deals.
And there are really
neat things about all
those different elements
of health care innovation.
But bioinformatics,
you don't have
to go through a
lengthy FDA process,
although the FDA is
going to be involved
in a lot of these products.
The marginal cost to grow
that type of business
and to offer a new product
is the marginal cost
of code in a lot of aspects.
And so, oftentimes,
what you'll see
is investors like bioinformatics
deals for those reasons
and there's more access
to capital as a result.
So it's a really
great space to be in.
And particularly
today, it's so exciting
with personalized medicine,
all these different trends
that are coming together and how
we have all this massive data
that we can actually
use and bring
medicine to a whole
bunch of different people
with smart code
in a lot of cases.
SAMUEL VOLCHENBOUM: So
to follow on to that,
can you say a few words
about intellectual property
because it seems like,
when it comes to IP,
it's less clear with
an informatics startup
often what the IP is?
When you have a
drug, it's obvious
that you're going to
IP the drug and you're
going to have a patent.
And in early talks
with investors,
it was very frustrating
because they would always
ask you know, what's
your IP, what's your IP.
And sometimes you
don't have IP, and I
think that can be OK for
an informatics startup.
But I'm still
wrestling with that.
Can you give us your
thoughts about that?
STEVE LEHMANN: Sure, not
having IP is absolutely OK.
And really, I guess
every company that's
doing a real innovation has IP.
It just may not be patent IP.
It may be a different type.
It may be a trademark or
a trade secret copyright.
And there are a bunch
of different ways
that you can handle
your IP, but the way
you're going to succeed in
a biopharmaceutical setting
is by grabbing a patent and
getting it through the FDA.
If you've got a patent
and you're through the FDA
and you've got a reasonable
thing that you're treating,
you've succeeded.
That's what it looks like.
In a bioinformatics setting,
when you're dealing with code,
it's really about how
quickly you can move,
how compelling your
product is, and how quickly
you can address a market.
And so speed is really going to
be your ally more than locking
down a space with patents.
You can get software
patents, but it's hard.
It's really hard.
SAMUEL VOLCHENBOUM:
And getting harder.
STEVE LEHMANN: And, yeah,
it's getting harder.
There are some recent
Supreme Court decisions
that have really
just made patenting
in this space a lot harder.
One thing that a lot of
people don't know is 95,
maybe 99% of patents
that currently
exist in the US patent
trademark system
are completely valueless.
Going after a patent
doesn't mean you
have anything
valuable whatsoever.
And it may not be
the right strategy.
Often times, particularly
in this space,
it really is not
the right strategy.
SAMUEL VOLCHENBOUM:
Your thoughts?
ARUN BHATIA: Yeah,
I would end that--
making that a little bit of
a broader point, what is IP?
IP is sort of a
conversation that's
had in the context of
competitive differentiation,
how are you differentiating
yourself from the competition.
And so, as you start
to think about that,
there's a lot of other ways--
IP is one mechanism to
gain that differentiation--
there's a lot of
other ways that folks
are thinking about doing
that-- service delivery
innovation or business
model innovation or customer
experience.
There are different ways that
you can capture a customer
and keep that as a sticky
customer, as a loyal customer.
So the challenge now for
bioinformatics companies
and other companies that are
outside the traditional life
sciences who have
IP is to think about
how do we be more
creative about creating
that differentiation for
our product and our service.
So thinking a little
bit broadly about that
will help you figure
out, if you're
in a space where
there is limited
IP, how best you can gain
a competitive advantage.
SAMUEL VOLCHENBOUM:
So do people have
to worry about sharing
their ideas around?
I've never been
one to require NDA.
We always have this sort of
"frieNDA" kind of mentality
where it's just not been
my culture in the group
that I'm with to actually
ask people ever to do that.
But I noticed that, especially
with larger corporations,
they're are always requiring
these very onerous NDAs to put
in place.
Should people be afraid about
giving talks and presenting
their pitch everywhere they go?
STEVE LEHMANN: I
would say it depends.
It really depends, but mostly
entrepreneurs are more--
especially first
time entrepreneurs--
are more cagey about
sharing their ideas
than they really need to be.
[INAUDIBLE] particularly,
ideas [INAUDIBLE] but no one's
going to come in,
take your idea,
and out execute you from
the start if you're driven.
And if the idea came
from your brain,
just the chances of that
happening are very low.
And so I'm the kind of
frieNDA mentality myself.
I love to talk about
the ideas that I have
and that other people have, too.
SAMUEL VOLCHENBOUM: And
if somebody else does it,
it's market validation.
I mean, there's plenty of
stories where the first person
to do it is not the
one that gets rich.
Totally, in the valley today,
first-mover advantage--
it's all about the second
mover advantage, frankly.
And, yeah, I think that's
the way to go about it.
SAMUEL VOLCHENBOUM: Are
there questions out there?
I've read one or two
off of the online thing.
But we can go ask questions.
And if you don't have
a mic, don't worry.
I'll repeat the
question if I hear it.
Yup.
AUDIENCE: So the health
care industry [INAUDIBLE]
moving towards value-based
reimbursement system,
and I think that system
is putting a lot of stress
on health care providers,
what type of informatics
would potentially be a
lot for these providers?
What is out there in the
current landscape of this
area that is helping providers
address or make the life easier
with the right
[INAUDIBLE] changes
that are occurring in
the health care industry?
SAMUEL VOLCHENBOUM:
So the question
is, with value based care
becoming so important
is putting a great
strain on providers
to maintain all the regulation.
And what sort of
informatics solutions
are emerging, whether they're
coming from [INAUDIBLE]
or whether they're coming
from startups that you see
making an impact in this area?
CHENG-KAI KAO: I really
want to say a lot.
And this is actually
great for entrepreneurship
per se because, whenever
there is a problem,
there is opportunity.
So because we all sort
of try to figure out
how we can survive this
new payment model change.
There's a lot of emphasize on
quality, a lot of emphasize
on improving the outcome,
which creates a lot of room
for different purposes.
For example, from population
health management type of tool,
you can be telemedicine
to increase the access,
improve our quality,
keeping patients away
from the hospital.
It can also be a number of
different quality improvement
initiative in
different department
to help them do their care
or deliver their care better.
So there's really
a number of ways
informatics can help in the new
change over the payment model
change.
ARUN BHATIA: Yeah, I would
totally agree with that.
I think value based
care is really about--
if you're a physician
today, there
was a time in which a patient
was in your hospital room
and, for that 15, 20,
30 minutes of time,
you were responsible
for giving them
a diagnosis and a treatment.
They would walk
outside the door,
and they weren't necessarily
your problem anymore.
Value based care is basically
saying, look, that patient--
this is not episodic care.
This is sort of care
outside the hospital.
And the health systems
and the providers
are now being held
accountable and responsible
for the quality of
care of that patient,
even as they leave the hospital.
So what that means
for physicians,
what that means for
health systems is
we need to do a better job
of tracking that patient,
following not patient,
measuring their diagnoses,
understanding how they're
responding to treatment.
So things around data,
things around connectivity,
care coordination-- these are
the areas where a lot of people
are trying to pay attention to
say how can we make the data
inputs easier for physicians
to continue to track
these patients so that we
can see how they're doing,
so that we can limit
readmissions within 30 days.
So it's those types
of digital tools,
data tools that are making all
of the health system smarter
about patients, about
what's working, what's not--
to Kai's point about the
population health side--
but if I take a
group of patients,
how can I best treat
them so that they're
doing well outside the
walls of the hospital?
So it's really those types
of tools and technologies
that we're seeing
a lot of people
pay attention to
and start to create.
SAMUEL VOLCHENBOUM: And
we struggle with the most
rudimentary parts of this.
So you would think, if
a patient has a knee
replacement at the
University of Chicago
and they go back
home to Rockford
and get admitted to a
rehab facility in Rockford
a week later, you
would think that it
would be easy for us to keep
track of these patients.
We're not even good at
trying to disambiguate
if it's the same patient that
showed up at the rehab facility
that we saw.
So the very simple
nature of having--
we don't have a
universal health care
identifier in this country.
And so the simplest things,
we're having difficulties with
and we need to solve these
through technology and we will.
But before we can tackle
the harder things,
we just have to get to the root
of some of these very simple
things that we have to track.
So that's a great question.
Another question out there?
AUDIENCE: I think
there's a lot more
hysteria around some buzzwords
sometimes, and one of them
is tech.
Everybody is looking
for [INAUDIBLE]
to solve their problems.
Now it's becoming big data.
I'm not saying
they're bad things.
And another one is valuation.
[INAUDIBLE] doesn't really
explain some things, as back
to your point Kai about
what business problems are
you trying to solve,
how are you going
to leverage tech and real big
data to solve that problem.
How are we going to monetize it?
What's the size of the
market for that thing?
And then eventually to
justify the valuation.
A lot of that is just lost,
and they even [INAUDIBLE]
when they talk about
[INAUDIBLE] health, for example.
Nobody really went
through the dollars
and said how they're
going to make money.
They just said,
oh, the valuation
is billions of dollars.
I'm not saying it just
crashed and burned.
And that's one of
my biggest worries
about this whole
health care stuff,
which I think it's great.
But let's just be
careful about it.
SAMUEL VOLCHENBOUM: So for
the folks listening online,
if I can try to reflect
back what you said.
I think you're expressing a
concern that people are getting
so caught up in the
hysteria around data science
and big data and informatics
that they're losing sight
of the fundamentals of
starting a business, which have
to do with customers
and stakeholders
and the true valuation
of a company,
and how do we keep
those in our sights
and not get lost in sort of
the hype of some of the work
that we're doing.
Is that fair?
Yeah.
CHENG-KAI KAO: And just wanted
to add that one thing I always
say in the class is that--
because all of my students
are informatics students.
And it's very easy for them
to come up with something IT.
So I said, when
you face a problem,
hold your internal desire
to jump on some technology
solution.
Just really ask
yourself what's the best
solution to a problem solved
because a lot of things
you will find essentially
a non-IT solution,
which is superior.
And this is just to go
back to my earlier point--
like you can apply technology
in a lot of things.
But they are not necessarily
the best solution.
And eventually, the
market will decide
what's the best solution is.
So you don't always need to
come out with the best solution
per se at the time being, but
at least start with something
that you think workable so
you can share with the others,
get feedback.
Validate a problem
first and then gradually
improve your solution with
time and go from there.
And it's very easy to
get lost in the process
about how much money
I should get invested
and how to run a
company and all of that.
So it's a lot of things
people need to take in.
But I'm glad there
a lot of resources
while in the university
to help with that.
ARUN BHATIA: Yeah, I
would just add one point.
It's a great point, and I
think a lot of entrepreneurs
fall in love with the idea
that technology is the answer
and is the solution.
We had a program recently
where we actually
had a number of health
systems and actually
had a VP of quality of a
health system at a roundtable.
And he said this is the
one thing he struggles
with entrepreneurs is that
everyone comes in and says,
here's a technology solution
that's going to basically take
your job away and obviate the
need for you as a physician.
And he says, well,
think about that.
If somebody came
to you and said,
I have a technology
that will replace you,
I'm not going to be really
all that excited about seeing
what you're going to do.
And his point was, A, OK,
that's not the right approach.
But, B, there's no technology
that will fundamentally
replace the relationship between
a patient and a physician.
And so when you think
about technology solutions
or new solutions,
it's about things
that enable that relationship,
enable that conversation
to be richer, to be more robust,
to be more productive, to get
the patient healthier.
It's not a technology to
replace that relationship.
SAMUEL VOLCHENBOUM: So
if somebody in Chicago
has a health care
startup, it's clear to me
that, if they want to
reach at U Chicago,
I think it's clear that some
of these paths are worked out.
But if they really want to
have an impact over health
care in Chicago land, can speak
to how MATTER and Polsky are
sort of thinking about
Chicago as a region
and how we can have
an impact over lots
of different areas and
different health systems?
STEVE LEHMANN: Sure, yeah.
So the Polsky Center--
I can just speak for our
little neck of the woods
down in Hyde Park.
We love working with folks
from different universities.
One of the investments
we made in our last cycle
at the innovation fund
was from IP coming out
of Michigan State.
We've got folks coming
into our startups,
like Tim from Northwestern.
And personally, I think that
our ecosystem rises or falls
based on Chicago winning in
health care, in data science,
and all of these
different fields.
I have an inclination
of a couple
of areas where I
think we're going
to be particularly well-suited.
And, yeah, working together
and preventing folks,
or at least giving
an alternative
to folks who would
otherwise go to Boston
or to Silicon Valley, who
can stay here and say,
no, there are actually
great opportunities
because there's tons of startups
coming out of Northwestern,
there's tons coming out of
the University of Chicago--
UIC, IIT, they're all here.
And one of the projects
that we're working on
at Polsky particularly
is a research tower
that's going to be
going in 12 stories--
I think 12 stories
is where it is now,
but bringing in wet lab
space for entrepreneurs
from across the city.
And it's going to be anchored
by the University of Chicago.
But our thesis is that we do
better by working together.
And so for me, success
looks like startups
that have folks on the business
team and the science team
from all of the different
institutions that
make this city so great.
ARUN BHATIA: Yeah,
I would add to that.
So echoing what I had mentioned
before, I think when MATTER was
first born, the
idea was that there
are all of these rich
resources in our community.
And when you go to Boston,
you stand in a certain spot
and you're looking at
the Broad Institute,
you're looking at MIT,
you're looking at Pfizer.
See all the industry players
in each other's labs basically.
And that's been one
of the challenges
that we've had in
Chicago-- is, although we
have all these resources,
that connection really
has not been there.
And I think that a little bit of
the secret sauce of what we're
trying to do is sort
of at a small scale
through roundtable
conversations, small group
conversations--
is have an opportunity
for industry and industry
to be at the table together
for industry and entrepreneurs
to be at the table together.
I mean, just think
about this for a second.
If you're developing a
solution, you're an entrepreneur
and you're sitting at
a table with someone
from HCSC who's a payer, someone
from the University of Chicago
on the health system
side, someone from Takeda
or [INAUDIBLE] on
the pharma side,
and these are the
kinds of conversations
that are bringing about the
ideas of what are the needs
and what are the solutions.
And one of the most intriguing
things that I found--
and this is not lip service.
I really do mean this--
I think, honestly,
our industry partners
learn a lot more from
our entrepreneurs
than the other way around.
I think entrepreneurs
will certainly
leverage the resources
that industry has
and the processes that
they put together.
But I promise you, having worked
at Baxter, I can tell you--
we would walk out of the room
after having an hour meeting
with an entrepreneur, and
we would look at each other
and, say, did you know
that that was going on,
did you know that that's the
technology that's out there.
They're learning just
as much, if not more,
from the entrepreneurs.
And so I think the more we
have these interactions--
and if MATTER and Polsky can--
we all serve as a hub
together to engage and have
more of those
interactions-- we're
hoping that more and more
of those partnerships
and collaborations will happen.
And we're starting to see
that more and more at MATTER
where we've got
companies interacting
and partnering and doing
pilots with industry partners.
So it's going to take
a while, but that's
the kind of partnership
and collaboration
that we're going to
see going forward.
SAMUEL VOLCHENBOUM: As
you develop these industry
partnerships, how do you
protect the entrepreneur
and protect their
interests because I
can see how the
industry is always
going to want to have
exclusive rights,
they're always going
to want to retain IP.
What resources are available
to budding entrepreneurs
so that they can go to Takeda
and try to do a study together
but still make sure they're
protecting themselves.
ARUN BHATIA: Yeah,
It's a great question.
So I think there are, from
a resource perspective,
there is work in
programs that we
do with entrepreneurs-- things
like what we call product trial
program.
So this is, if you're
an entrepreneur
and you're selling-- and
I'm just use the example
of a health system, you want
to sell into a health system--
part of it is through
a program at MATTER,
which is-- think of
us as Switzerland.
We're sort of the neutral place.
We're helping to understand
what are the points that
are important to
that health system
as they're doing pilots,
how do they do pilots,
how do they make
decisions on that--
and so facilitating interactions
between startups and health
systems or, if it's pharma
companies, on how should we
be setting up these pilots, how
should we be doing these types
of collaboration.
So having a safety
net, if you will,
that we work with entrepreneurs
to go through that process
is really important, and
having our industry partners
understand that, when they
become partners at MATTER,
they're also going
through that process.
They're also going to
engage with entrepreneurs,
and we're going to sort
of, collectively learn
how to do these
pilots going forward.
So there will always
be issues that
come up in terms of
rights, in terms of IP.
But sometimes, it's just
laying the groundwork
for a process of how we're
going to work together
in order to make it successful.
SAMUEL VOLCHENBOUM: Great.
Are there questions out there?
AUDIENCE: A question for
Steve at the Polsky Center.
You guys are building a
12-story research facility.
It's geared toward university
affiliated entrepreneur's
startups coming here.
How about non-university
and some of the folks
hanging out at MATTER?
STEVE LEHMANN: Yeah,
I'm not actually sure.
So I don't want to answer that
question with any specificity.
But the goal for
the whole building
is to be as open as possible and
to be a resource for Chicago.
Exactly the vectors to get
in, I can't answer right here,
but I can find out and let
you know right afterward.
AUDIENCE: OK, it would a
reciprocal question Arun.
With MATTER, with
the folks in there,
it's lot of IT in
MATTER for those
who need to validate
their idea and use
some sort of
experimental lab space,
you partner with industry or
connection at universities
and trying to get
something up and go
for non-university
MATTER startup.
ARUN BHATIA: Yeah, there
are through partnerships
that we have with universities.
So a lot of even the--
I'll it call-- the
non-university based startups
out of MATTER have
some connection back
to a university, whether
it's the founding CTO
or whatever it might be.
There's typically
sometimes a connection back
to a university.
And so we've often
said, MATTER's
not a place where we're
replacing your university
affiliation.
That's actually
very, very important.
And so, for instance,
when you come to MATTER,
we don't have wet lab
space, and that's not
a goal going forward.
The goal is to say, look, you're
doing work, technical work
within your university
system, and you're
coming to matter to interact
more with the industry partners
to take advantage of more
entrepreneurial resources
that could be of value to you.
But typically, for the
non-university companies,
they have an affiliation
back to a university.
For those that completely
don't and have developed
their company on their own,
there are opportunities
to then engage with either CROs
or other industry partners to,
say, how can we do a small scale
pilot to do some of this work.
But more so in life
sciences' side,
there's a lot more of a
push to do contracting work
outside for a lot of that work.
So there's a virtual
type of process.
SAMUEL VOLCHENBOUM:
Other questions?
AUDIENCE: One of
the challenges when
you've got a startup is
reaching the right people.
A, you've got to identify
what level of the organization
really needs to vet this out.
You don't want to go too high
because [INAUDIBLE] somebody
in the longrun, right?
So my challenge has been because
I'm coming from manufacturing,
and I'm just 25 years
of [INAUDIBLE] this.
I'm bringing this new
stuff to health care.
But I [INAUDIBLE]
CEO level [INAUDIBLE]
from the hospital and
the health insurer.
I've got the hospital
stuff pretty well covered.
Now I'm trying to crack into
the health insurance stuff.
Don't you think there's a need
for some kind of a clearing
house because there's a
lot of noise at there--
1,000 of coming in.
And so there has to
be a clearing house
that somebody goes through
all of these things.
And if you're not
there yet or if you're
going for the wrong
person, doesn't that--
[INAUDIBLE] where
you'd be willing to pay
to connect, to say, OK, yeah,
you've got a valid thing here
and I think we should
hook you up with so and so
and so and so.
Can you see MATTER doing
something like that
because that's something
that would really add value.
I'll tell you a little
experience I had recently.
I was at this hospital
CEO's breakfast for 500,
600 people to go
[INAUDIBLE] network.
So I got over there to
talk to one of the CEOs
at the hospitals.
And I thought, the guy didn't
didn't have too much time.
So I gave a very quick
look, and I told him,
I'm willing to post a stupidity
bond to meet with you.
And he said, what's that?
And I said, I'll
bring a blank check.
If after a one hour meeting,
you tell me this is a dumb idea,
that check is yours.
And he laughed, and said
that's not necessary.
So he gave me his card.
And trying to get
in through the door.
But other than that, this guy--
SAMUEL VOLCHENBOUM: So I think
that the general question
is what sort of resources
are available for people
that are trying to--
whether it's the insurance
industry or the pharma tech
industry.
And I've seen this book
at MATTER and Polsky
that you guys do
serve as matchmakers,
and that's actually one
of the primary functions
of your groups
for helping people
navigate these different areas.
ARUN BHATIA: Yeah, and
it's one of the biggest--
it's one of the biggest
needs for entrepreneurs.
I completely understand that.
I answer it this way.
I think, as an incubator,
there's a certain resource
there that we need to deliver.
And what I mean by
that is there are--
let's say on the payer side
just to use your example--
there are folks that we
continue to meet who, let's say,
come from the medical
coverage side.
So I recently met somebody who
literally that is her job--
is to understand, when
new technologies come in,
how do they evaluate,
how do they review,
and how do they give some sort
of medical coverage decision
on those.
That's really valuable
for an entrepreneur
to understand how that
evaluation is done
and to get that feedback.
Those aren't sort of a--
I mean, those people aren't
walking around all the time.
Part of it is also
meeting those people.
We are almost a
startup of ourselves.
And so we're kind of doing the
same thing that you're doing,
which is we're hustling.
We're trying to find
those people to say, look,
we've got 200 entrepreneurs
who need this type of support.
Here are the kind of people
that we're looking for.
And we're going to our
industry partners and saying,
this is what we need.
So I would answer
that as that is
what we continue to do and
strive to do and improve to do.
Do we know absolutely
everybody in every aspect?
No, of course not.
But where we can help,
given who our partners are,
we do our best to
try and do that.
And so, we can
certainly talk offline
about some specific people--
become a MATTER,
and there you go.
SAMUEL VOLCHENBOUM:
So we're going
to need to pause at 6:00 PM so
that students going to class.
I want to ask a final
question that each of you
can answer, hopefully,
efficiently.
For somebody who
just is starting out
and has never done this and
just wants to sort of get
their feet wet a
little bit, can you
each come up with
sort of a simple thing
that they can do to sort of
take a step into this world
and start to get
more comfortable?
So I don't care what order
you go in, but each of you
should weigh in.
CHENG-KAI KAO: So, Sam,
you're saying basically,
anyone with an
idea or if you have
a product or like a
company or what levels?
SAMUEL VOLCHENBOUM: So for you,
if one of the other residents
or fellows came to you and
said, listen, I have an idea,
I'm not quite sure if it's any
good, I don't know anything
about a startup, what
would you tell them
in terms of starting
to get familiar
with the world of startups?
SAMUEL VOLCHENBOUM:
So, yeah, I would
suggest them to reach
out to different courses
available over there.
Like I said, there should be
different courses as a primer--
from biotech, informatics,
it doesn't really matter.
There should be different
types of introductory course
to help guide you
through the process.
There's a lot of
resources online as well.
For example, Y Combinator,
they have a very
dedicated up course online
that you can look into as well.
So there's quite
a few resources.
But I think the most important
thing is still to find,
like I said earlier, to validate
a problem first and figure out
whether it is something
you really want to do.
It's more important
to figure out
this is something you
really want to work on
and this is really a validated
solution through a problem
rather than spending a lot of
time learning about finances
or how to get funding and all
that goes because all of that
can be secondary if the solution
is not really a good solution
to start with.
ARUN BHATIA: Yeah, I'd give
the same advice somebody
gave me when I first
started at Booth--
network, network, network.
And that's just going out
and talking to people.
And even if you don't even
know what the questions are,
start talking to
entrepreneurs to get
a sense of what a day in the
life of an entrepreneur--
understand what they go
through, talk to customers,
talk to people.
Courses are really important.
I think, as you figure out
what it is you want to do
and you're building knowledge,
subject matter, expertise,
that's where courses come in.
That's where institutional
knowledge comes in.
But if you're just getting
started and you're learning,
get out there and talk to
people as much as you can,
even if you don't
think they're related
in any way to what you're doing.
But go out and start talking
to people, and that helps.
STEVE LEHMANN: Yeah, a
variation on the same theme--
be around.
Be around where entrepreneurs
are putting together products,
where they're pitching.
Be around the classes where
entrepreneurs tend to gather.
At least for the
University of Chicago,
be around the Polsky
Center, the people who get
on the interesting projects.
And there are tons of
interesting projects
at the University of
Chicago that need talent.
The people that get on those are
the ones that are just around,
and they demonstrate value.
And a lot of the times,
it's table stakes
to just walk into the room are
to just do something for free,
help somebody out.
If you help out enough
people, eventually you're
going to get into
something that looks good.
And you don't have
to plot it all out,
but just be around, add
value, and look for things
you can get involved in.
SAMUEL VOLCHENBOUM:
And I think having
mentorship is really important
and finding a mentor that you
can trust, that you can
go to and, say, listen,
they just gave me
this term sheet,
I have no idea what it
means, is this a good deal--
somebody that you can really
lay it all out for and get
some advice from has always
been really important to me.
And it's hard to
find those people.
And if you can find them--
I'm sure you'll see them
at Polsky and MATTER.
If and you can find those
people, it's really helpful.
So this is really useful.
I'm really glad that
you guys came together.
Hopefully, you can stick
around a little bit
and have walkup questions.
But for now, let's
thank our panelists
and let's take a break.
[APPLAUSE]
