MIKE SPINELLI: A new breed of
hybrid-driven supercars from
McLaren, Ferrari, and Porsche
are indeed mind-blowing in
their sheer complexity,
computing power and of course,
their price tags.
But do these so-called hypercars
truly represent the
highest echelon of road
car technology?
Or has all that technology
merely compromised three
outstanding gasoline
powered road cars?
It's the hypercar paradox.
That's today on "AFTER/DRIVE."
[MUSIC PLAYS]
MIKE SPINELLI: So, for some
car enthusiasts, it's
precisely the gasoline-electric
hybrid
systems that define the latest
round of hypercars, the
Ferrari LaFerrari, McLaren P1,
and Porsche 918 Spider.
And yet one could just as
easily make a case that
hybrid-drive systems are the
very least interesting thing
about these three very expensive
and very complex
sports cars.
Here to help me sort out what
these cars mean to the
hyper-carbine world, also
known as the 0.00001
percenters, and what their
technology reach could mean to
the rest of us eventually,
if we wait a bit longer--
like a decade or two.
Travis Okulski, Travis.
TRAVIS OKULSKI: Mike.
MIKE SPINELLI: Good to have
you here on "AFTER/DRIVE."
TRAVIS OKULSKI: Good
to be here.
Thanks for having me back.
MIKE SPINELLI: You read that.
That's how you know
where you are.
All right, so I want to show
you two, three cars.
TRAVIS OKULSKI: Three cars.
MIKE SPINELLI: Yes
TRAVIS OKULSKI: OK
MIKE SPINELLI: There's
a Ferrari.
TRAVIS OKULSKI: Nice.
MIKE SPINELLI: There's
also a McLaren.
TRAVIS OKULSKI: Cool.
MIKE SPINELLI: Right--
and a Porsche of some sort.
TRAVIS OKULSKI: These are all
the new, newest cars that are
coming out.
MIKE SPINELLI: They're what
you call hypercars.
Oh, wait a minute.
These aren't the ones that
we're going to be talking
about today, but speaking
of which, hypercar
supercar, is that--
TRAVIS OKULSKI: I tend to think,
and Raphael, also at
Jalopnik, we both tend to think
that hypercar is a--
does it mean anything?
It's a made-up word, because
how can you have something
above the top?
Supercars have always been the
top of the top, the top
technology, the top performance,
everything that
you want in a very fast
car is a supercar--
so, like the Countach, Diablo,
F50, F40, things like that.
Hypercar is made up, so now
the lower cars, everyone's
calling them supercars, and
above that, they're calling
them hypercars.
MIKE SPINELLI: Right, but is
it superfluous naming?
I think, I think it is.
And I think it was
fine at supercar.
People calling them hypercars
just because the
numbers seem insane.
TRAVIS OKULSKI: Right
MIKE SPINELLI: I
think we should
just still use supercars.
And really what we're talking
about today is that cars, are
these hybrid supercars that
we were talking about-- we
actually haven't shown yet,
as everybody knows--
TRAVIS OKULSKI: Right.
MIKE SPINELLI: Are they the
apex currently of road car
technology?
And that's the question we sent
out to the viewers, too.
But we're going to be talking
about that today.
We're going to be showing
those three cars.
But that's ultimately what we're
here to try to figure
out today in hopefully not too
long, so we won't bore the
crap out everybody.
All right, so, Ferrari
LaFerrari--
I mean, it's nice, super-nice.
TRAVIS OKULSKI: Yes,
nice is one word to
use to describe that.
MIKE SPINELLI: Especially
this is its angle.
This is the hero angle for
this car, definitely.
TRAVIS OKULSKI: I never even
noticed how long the nose is
before, either.
MIKE SPINELLI: What does it have
in common with the next
car, the McLaren P1?
KERS, right, Formula One based
sort of hybrid systems.
TRAVIS OKULSKI: Right, more
than 900 horsepower.
MIKE SPINELLI: Right
well, yeah.
TRAVIS OKULSKI: --various
things like that.
We'll get into more--
MIKE SPINELLI: Get into more
of the details, but yes,
exactly, right.
So the two Formula, basically
Formula One racing-intensive
companies right now, coming
out with two.
And then there's Porsche--
TRAVIS OKULSKI: Right.
MIKE SPINELLI: --with
the 918 Spider.
All these are coming
out this year.
All of them have battery-based
hybrids, not the
flywheel-based hybrid that we
had seen in some Porsche--
TRAVIS OKULSKI: Or the
RSR version of that.
MIKE SPINELLI: Yes,
right, exactly.
Or also in the 911.
TRAVIS OKULSKI: GT3.
MIKE SPINELLI: --GT3
version, right.
So, Ferrari LaFerrari,
amazing V12.
Ferrari just makes
V12s as art.
It's insane, the sound,
all that stuff.
950 horsepower-- this is total,
by the way, these are
total horsepower figures with
the electric stuff.
950?
Right.
I mean, come on,
gimme a break.
TRAVIS OKULSKI: That's a lot.
MIKE SPINELLI: Right
TRAVIS OKULSKI: That's a
substantial amount of
horsepower.
MIKE SPINELLI: Right, 903 for
the McLaren, which has--
TRAVIS OKULSKI: That's nothing
to sneeze at either.
That's a lot of horsepower,
as well.
MIKE SPINELLI: So their
I-C-E there is right--
their internal combustion engine
is a kind of a variant
of the one in the 12C--
a little bit different block,
different intake, larger
turbos, that kind of stuff.
TRAVIS OKULSKI: Pretty
substantial reward.
MIKE SPINELLI: Pretty
substantial.
So basically, I mean,
900, 722 for them.
We're going to talk a little
bit more about the weight
stuff, because weight is kind
of one of the issues.
And then of course, Porsche,
the RS Spider--
TRAVIS OKULSKI: The engine is
based on the 3.4 liter from
the RS Spider.
MIKE SPINELLI: Right, exactly.
TRAVIS OKULSKI: Then, it's got
those electric motors which do
more, I guess, than
in both the P1--
well, than the LaFerrari.
The P1 has slightly the same
capabilities as the 918, but--
MIKE SPINELLI: But kind of
different, This is more--
they're a little more boost-y,
kind of, and this is sort of a
more comprehensive system where
efficiency is kind of
what Porsche is going
after also.
887 horsepower.
They started out in the 6's and
7's, and then they boosted
it because I guess these numbers
came out they didn't
want to be completely--
Now this 920 lb-ft, this is a
Chris Harris reported number.
I obviously trust Chris Harris
quite a bit with that number.
If that number is true--
TRAVIS OKULSKI: That's
unbelievable.
MIKE SPINELLI: Peak
torque is insane.
Right, that's insane.
Right, and just consider all the
computers they have, kind
of making all this stuff work.
All right, so before we get
too much into that--
TRAVIS OKULSKI: Also, it's
the bargain basement
value of the bunch.
MIKE SPINELLI: Right.
TRAVIS OKULSKI: If it's
for the poor people,
the 918 is for the--
MIKE SPINELLI: It's for the
"po." Right, exactly.
TRAVIS OKULSKI: It's for
the lower eschelon.
So $845,000, $945,000 for
the white sock edition.
We'll talk about that
in a second.
These are kind of, they're
probably not exactly what the
prices are going to be, but it's
1.2 million euros right
now, it's 1.5 million for the
LaFerrari, 1.15 million for
the McLaren.
So, it's a kind of big
price-- hundreds of
thousands of dollars--
in price difference.
TRAVIS OKULSKI: Right.
So let's, we'll talk about
that in a second.
But I wanted to point out
that we went to our
social media people.
TRAVIS OKULSKI: You,
the people.
MIKE SPINELLI: Y'all, right.
TRAVIS OKULSKI: Yeah.
MIKE SPINELLI: And asked you the
question we raised at the
top of the show, which is are
these cars the apex of
motorcar, or road car technology
right now, or are
they compromised in some way?
So Benjamin Oliver Wellington
Nash-- and we
went to Facebook first--
where do you, what country do
you think Benjamin Oliver
Wellington Nash is from?
No, I'm just guessing.
I don't know.
TRAVIS OKULSKI: I'm
not sure, either
MIKE SPINELLI: I don't
know, either.
TRAVIS OKULSKI: I don't
want to speculate.
MIKE SPINELLI: Yeah,
we won't speculate.
"The future doesn't just happen
automatically." He
actually has an excellent point
here. "The future just
doesn't happen automatically.
We have to do things
to create it.
I look forward to the day when
we have lightweight,
all-electric cars with
thousand-mile ranges that can
be recharged in 10 minutes." So
you have to, if this is the
way, automotive technology
doesn't just
appear out of nothing.
You have to actually spend
the time on it.
But is--
TRAVIS OKULSKI: I mean, it's
taken us a hundred years to
get to the point where we are
now, 115 years, I guess.
Or however, what was it, 18...
whatever, something like that.
But yeah, we've gotten to where
we are now, and we're at
unbelievable performance
and efficiency.
And imagine in another hundred
years, what will
happen to the car.
MIKE SPINELLI: Right
TRAVIS OKULSKI: --because the
change has been incredible.
MIKE SPINELLI: So, Steve
"Ski-volley" or "Shi," no,
"Ski-volley."
TRAVIS OKULSKI: "Shi-volley"?
MIKE SPINELLI: "Shi-volley"?
TRAVIS OKULSKI: "Chiv-o-lee"?
MIKE SPINELLI: I don't know.
TRAVIS OKULSKI: It's OK.
Hey, Steve.
MIKE SPINELLI: We'll let Steve
correct us, angrily, later.
"It has become too much about
chasing numbers and less about
what made these supercars
in the first place."
And that's kind of--
this is sort of the
alternate side.
"Sure, shave off another 0.05
seconds in the standing zero
to 60, or add a few more miles
per miles per hour to the top
but who cares?
I want a driving experience."
So have we gone too far with
the technology that it's
actually taking away from the
driving experience?
TRAVIS OKULSKI: It is not an
involving experience anymore--
these cars driving themselves
now, and we're just kind of
there to help tell them
which direction to go.
MIKE SPINELLI: Right,
and that's probably
true in a lot of ways.
Cal Mummert--
Cal Mummert, I believe, also a
longtime reader and commenter,
"These are the"-- viewer--
"these are the prototypes of
immature technologies just
beginning to take hold.
When mature, this stuff will
be better and naturally,
better than naturally aspirated,
forced injection,
and the rest." It's
a strong point.
TRAVIS OKULSKI: It's a great--
I think it's a great point
because that's where we--
that's what--
the test-bed.
We'll get into that, too, that
these cars are the test-bed
for the future.
MIKE SPINELLI: Really the
point being that if--
is hybrid technology where
companies should be spending
all their time right now?
That's, I think, the key.
I think a lot of people feel
that hybrid-drive systems are
compromised anyway, so why use
them to reflect your highest
level of technology?
TRAVIS OKULSKI: Right.
MIKE SPINELLI: But anyway, we'll
also Facebook Adam Joe.
"If the tech makes the car
perform better in multiple
aspects, how can you argue that
they are not the pinnacle
of road cars?" All right,
so there you go.
That's the last word
from Facebook.
On Twitter, Seamus Hickey, "They
have been compromised."
That is, Seamus is not
fooling around.
"The engines have more than
enough power and the weight of
the batteries is unnecessary."
Our own Chris Harris came to
the same conclusion when he was
driving the 3,700 pound
Porsche 918.
TRAVIS OKULSKI: Right, but
that's also 3,700 pounds, but
you've got the McLaren and the
Ferrari, which both have
battery packs aboard of around
about 3,000 pounds.
So there are different ways to
do it, which would bring the
weight down.
MIKE SPINELLI: Are we going to
be able to answer that today?
I don't think so.
TRAVIS OKULSKI: Right.
MIKE SPINELLI: But let's just
see what everybody else says,
and then we'll start talking
about it more.
Jason Williams, they
are the "apex.
They are limited, but not
compromised by battery tech.
Lighter batteries will see a
renaissance in road car tech."
That's a strong point because
how can you get the technology
to be more favorable unless
you spend the money on
developing it, right?
TRAVIS OKULSKI: Right.
MIKE SPINELLI: But, OK, cool.
And I think one more, Elias
"Kar-wash-ee-an", Karwashan,
"Hybrid hypercars
have to happen.
F40 and 959" Ferrari and Porsche
"lead to RX-7 and
3000GT." Trickle down.
TRAVIS OKULSKI: Right.
MIKE SPINELLI: "Who knows what
918, LaFerrari, and P1 will
bring?"
TRAVIS OKULSKI: And that's
a great point.
MIKE SPINELLI: That is the point
that we need to kind of
consider today.
TRAVIS OKULSKI: Right.
MIKE SPINELLI: What are the
technologies from these cars
that are going to eventually
trickle down, right?
So, there's a Ferrari.
So, just saying, there it is.
TRAVIS OKULSKI: This is awe.
So what is it about
the LaFerrari--
that, what are some of the
things about the LaFerrari
that make it the apex of
Ferrari tech right now?
TRAVIS OKULSKI: I mean,
look at it.
The first, I mean,
MIKE SPINELLI: It;s
the design tech
TRAVIS OKULSKI: It's
the design tech.
It's just glorious looking--
but it's got the HY-KERS, I
believe is what they call
their KERS system.
It's got the double-clutch
trans.
It's got all their specially
updated traction control
management, the manettino.
MIKE SPINELLI: You know,
it's interesting.
So I think one of the things
that-- you know it's funny
because the things that are
going to trickle down out of
all these, right,
weight savings.
TRAVIS OKULSKI: Definitely.
MIKE SPINELLI: And we'll get
to that more in a couple of
the other cars.
But it's all about how could you
mass produce carbon fiber
to make regular cars just a
strong, and safe, and also
really light and
more efficient.
If you're talking about Ferrari,
you have to then talk
about the trickle down from
Ferrari to Alfa Romeo.
The 4C is going to be the first
kind of affordable car.
I mean.
TRAVIS OKULSKI: It's going to
be like $60,000, I think.
MIKE SPINELLI: Yeah, 60 and up,
but it'll have the carbon
fiber monocoque.
TRAVIS OKULSKI: That's
amazing.
It is pretty amazing to see that
technology already has
trickled down to there.
And so you can imagine it
eventually getting to the
$30,000 range.
Yeah, it'll keep getting lower
and lower until we have a
[INAUDIBLE]
FRS made of carbon fiber.
MIKE SPINELLI: All right, so
let's just take a look quickly
at their, what their
hybrid system is--
batteries on the floor, right?
TRAVIS OKULSKI: Lower
center of gravity.
MIKE SPINELLI: Lower
center of gravity.
Beautiful, gorgeous-sounding
V12, and no all-electric mode.
TRAVIS OKULSKI: Right, because
that's against
the ethos of Ferrari.
Even though they probably could
do it they just won't do
it, because they don't believe
in Ferrari being silent, which
I agree with.
MIKE SPINELLI: Right, and we can
talk about how Ferrari and
McLaren both are coming down
from F1, and Porsche's coming
down from sports car racing, so
there is a little bit of a
different ethos as you said
from being influenced by
Sprint racing to being
influenced
by endurance racing.
TRAVIS OKULSKI: Right.
I think that eventually when we
take a look at the Porsche,
you'll see where the endurance
at least it seems to me that
the endurance racing
technologies are more evidence
in that car than--
TRAVIS OKULSKI: Oh,
definitely.
I think so, too.
MIKE SPINELLI: Than the way that
these guys are doing it.
All right so the P1.
TRAVIS OKULSKI: I like the P1.
MIKE SPINELLI: I like
the P1, too.
It's much more, it's not as
classically beautiful as the
Ferrari, but it's got its
own air-shaped kind of--
TRAVIS OKULSKI: McLaren's a
newer company though, too, at
we; least in this space.
This was only their third road
car, so they can carve out
their own thing.
They don't have to harken back
to the past, and that's what I
love about it is that
they're all--
MIKE SPINELLI: But that's
a nice picture of you.
TRAVIS OKULSKI: Thank you.
MIKE SPINELLI: Where'd
you get that bag?
TRAVIS OKULSKI: That's when I
drove the P1 at my, by my
Infinity pool and my
very square hedges.
MIKE SPINELLI: By the way
I applaud how you
got that so, so square.
TRAVIS OKULSKI: My
guy's great.
I have a good guy.
MIKE SPINELLI: You got a guy?
TRAVIS OKULSKI: I
got a good guy.
MIKE SPINELLI: But so, you know,
the shape is basically--
TRAVIS OKULSKI: Ugly?
MIKE SPINELLI: From what we've
talked to these guys, I mean,
it's almost completely air,
wind-tunnel shaped, right,
whereas Ferrari still has, has
kind of had to add some of
their own DNA shapes in it.
OK, so talking about this,
speaking of active-aero,
right, so this wing
is insane, right?
TRAVIS OKULSKI: So it's
an air break.
MIKE SPINELLI: Right.
TRAVIS OKULSKI: It generates
downforce, and it
un-generates downforce.
MIKE SPINELLI: So at what, is
it 160 miles an hour, it
generates something like 1,300
pounds of downforce.
TRAVIS OKULSKI: It's
ridiculous.
MIKE SPINELLI: Yeah, I mean
it's like, not quite F1
levels, but it's--
TRAVIS OKULSKI: It's
pretty damn close.
MIKE SPINELLI: I mean, for
a road car, forget it.
TRAVIS OKULSKI: It's
unbelievable.
MIKE SPINELLI: This also,
so the pitch of the--
TRAVIS OKULSKI: Well, there's
a button on the wheel.
MIKE SPINELLI: Yeah.
TRAVIS OKULSKI: That you
push, it says, it says
DRS, doesn't it?
So it's like being in the--
you're permanently in the DRS
zone, I guess, on one track.
You push it, the wing stalls.
So I imagine people are going
to be driving these in
Manhattan with the wing stalling
while they're going
down Sixth Avenue or whatever.
MIKE SPINELLI: But so
that's interesting.
So trickling down, what could
trickle down to a road car is
active-aero.
You could have like
a Prius, right?
You could reduce the aero to
maximize your fuel efficiency
when you do that, and then you
can, for a sports car, and you
could add downforce if you're in
a situation where you want
some more traction.
TRAVIS OKULSKI: We're seeing
it on lower cost cars, too.
There's cars with active
shutters in the grille to
increase fuel efficiency.
It doesn't do the same as
this wing, but we're
already seeing that true.
I think the new--
I drove the new Mazda
3 the other week.
I'm pretty sure they said it has
that as well, down there,
more sky-active.
MIKE SPINELLI: Right,
so it's already,
it's already happening.
So there's the interior.
Talking about carbon fiber.
TRAVIS OKULSKI: It doesn't
have enough carbon fiber.
MIKE SPINELLI: It's funny
because a lot of these
technologies feel like they have
already trickled down to
the point where-- maybe carbon
fiber's not ready for full
production prime-time, but BMW,
with their city cars, are
using much more carbon fiber
than anyone had in that
segment before.
TRAVIS OKULSKI: Right.
MIKE SPINELLI: OK, so this is
kind of interesting because
this is, this is the P1's
battery pack and
hybrid-drive system.
TRAVIS OKULSKI: So the battery
pack, which looks like
Ceausescu's castle,
in Romania.
MIKE SPINELLI: It definitely
has like a Politburo
building kind of--
TRAVIS OKULSKI: It feels very
official But it's mounted,
instead of-- on the Ferrari,
it's very low.
On the P1, it's low and wide.
Here of the P1, it's stacked
above the mono cell.
But it's still--
MIKE SPINELLI: So the Ferrari
one also weighs the least--
60 kilograms.
TRAVIS OKULSKI: Well, I think it
also has to do the least of
the three, because the McLaren
can go a few miles--
I think it's six,
seven miles--
on all electric.
And then it also-- which I think
is incredibly cool-- it
can make up for torque
deficiencies during shifting
to apparently make it go
even faster in the
900-horsepower car.
MIKE SPINELLI: That
is excellent.
I mean, zero to 60 on these
things are going to be--
TRAVIS OKULSKI: 2 and 1/2?
MIKE SPINELLI: About
2 and 1/2.
But really, it's going to be 60
to 120 where these things
are going to be just
unbeatable.
TRAVIS OKULSKI: It's five
seconds faster than the F1 to
that speed.
MIKE SPINELLI: Yeah.
TRAVIS OKULSKI: The
McLaren F1.
That was the fastest car in the
world for a while, FYI.
MIKE SPINELLI: And by the way,
isn't it the speed is limited
at 218 miles an hour?
TRAVIS OKULSKI: I think so.
Yeah.
MIKE SPINELLI: Yeah, which,
you know, OK.
All right.
So Porsche.
Just kind of run through this.
So Porsche did not use the
flywheel system, as a lot of
people seem to think-- well,
a couple people thought.
TRAVIS OKULSKI: Couple
people hoped.
MIKE SPINELLI: And a lot of
people were hoping, because
that is kind of interesting.
So of course, you would have to
not have a passenger seat
if you want to do that.
TRAVIS OKULSKI: You'd have to
have a rotating mass next to
you going, like, what is it,
50,000 RPM next to you.
MIKE SPINELLI: Right.
Exactly.
It's a little bit high.
TRAVIS OKULSKI: That would
be terrifying.
MIKE SPINELLI: This is
a little pixelated.
But anyway, so electric motor
in the front, electric motor
in the rear.
Electric motor in the front is
1 to 1 ratio, so it has to
decouple rather than overdrive
it, right?
You can't change the ratios.
So it has to decouple and,
like, a hundred and--
TRAVIS OKULSKI: I think it's
100-- is it 100 KPH?
MIKE SPINELLI: 100 KPH, yeah.
TRAVIS OKULSKI: Is that it?
No, it's higher than that.
MIKE SPINELLI: No, it
is higher than that.
It's 146, something like that.
TRAVIS OKULSKI: That's right.
Yeah.
MIKE SPINELLI: JF?
JF MUSIAL: Yes.
MIKE SPINELLI: Yeah, OK.
We'll fact check that.
But it does have a rear
electric motor--
TRAVIS OKULSKI: It can go--
MIKE SPINELLI: --that does
more of the torque
boosting and stuff.
TRAVIS OKULSKI: This
one can go the
furthest on all electric.
It can go 15 entire miles
on all electric.
MIKE SPINELLI: Indeed.
At 93 miles an hour?
TRAVIS OKULSKI: Yes.
MIKE SPINELLI: In all-electric
mode.
TRAVIS OKULSKI: That's crazy,
because there's the first
videos of the first
rides in the car.
You have them going around
Barber all electric
for, like two laps.
MIKE SPINELLI: That was cool.
TRAVIS OKULSKI: Yeah,
that's really cool.
MIKE SPINELLI: But a little
bit gimmicky, because--
well, all right.
When you think about it-- let's
look at it this way.
So what can a hybrid drive
system do for you?
If you're Ferrari, you can put
in a high, high revving V12
that doesn't really get torque
until 3,500 or 4,000 or 5,000,
and then just to make it easier
to drive around town,
you just fill it--
TRAVIS OKULSKI: Just
give it that extra
torque in the low end.
MIKE SPINELLI:--in with
extra torque.
I mean, to me, that sounds
pretty legitimate.
TRAVIS OKULSKI: The P1 does it
roughly the same, but it also
adds the ability to drive brief
amounts on all-electric
power, which is good if you're
doing a track day, and you're
coming in to the pits or if
you're doing around town for
your shopping.
MIKE SPINELLI: Yeah, you're
doing some shopping in your
million-dollar supercar.
TRAVIS OKULSKI: But the P1 can
also do a range-extended mode,
where it just forces the engine
to charge the battery,
which then uses gas to charge
the battery for certain
things, I guess, so you can
then set a really hot lap.
MIKE SPINELLI: Well, the other
thing is, they don't need--
by the way, the twin turbo
3.8-liter V8 already produces
a fair amount of torque
down low.
TRAVIS OKULSKI: Yes.
MIKE SPINELLI: So they don't
necessarily need the same kind
of thing that Ferrari needs.
But let's just say--
by the way, if you go
back one, this is
the Weissach edition.
TRAVIS OKULSKI: Weissach.
MIKE SPINELLI: Weissach, which
is, as we said before,
$100,000 more but a little
bit lighter--
100 pounds lighter.
So what, $1,000 a pound?
TRAVIS OKULSKI: Yep.
Cool paint job.
MIKE SPINELLI: Also cool
paint job and--
TRAVIS OKULSKI: Wings.
MIKE SPINELLI: Yeah.
What, these little buggers?
TRAVIS OKULSKI: I think so.
MIKE SPINELLI: JF?
JF MUSIAL: Yes.
TRAVIS OKULSKI: The spats.
MIKE SPINELLI: Yes.
So ultimately, though, the
negative about having the
hybrid system is just
basically weight.
TRAVIS OKULSKI: This is
almost 1,000 pounds
heavier than the Ferrari.
MIKE SPINELLI: You could see
it the most in here.
So 1,000 pounds heavier--
almost.
I mean, at its heaviest, not
the Weissach edition.
That's 36 something.
TRAVIS OKULSKI: It's
37 something.
MIKE SPINELLI: 3715 for
the non-Weissach.
TRAVIS OKULSKI: The Ferraris
are the 28s.
MIKE SPINELLI: Yeah.
So yeah, this is the
Weissach package.
So let's just give
a quick overview.
What did we just see?
A $1.5 million Ferrari that's as
close to a Formula One car
as you've ever been
able to buy.
TRAVIS OKULSKI: I'm going to--
MIKE SPINELLI: Disagree?
TRAVIS OKULSKI: --disagree and
say the P1 is the closest to
an F1 car that you ever saw.
MIKE SPINELLI: All right.
I'll give you that, too.
Why, though, would you say
there's that big a difference
between the two?
TRAVIS OKULSKI: I think that
it's a big difference because
it's got the driver-activated
DRS.
The driver activates
the curves.
It's got movable--
the wing opening, to me, I think
that's the most F1 tech
we've seen on the road, because
you don't see active
aero that the driver controls.
You see active aero that is
efficiency related, usually.
You don't typically see
something to make the car go
[INAUDIBLE].
MIKE SPINELLI: OK.
I'll give you that.
Having DRS at your fingertips
on the street--
TRAVIS OKULSKI: That's
ridiculous.
MIKE SPINELLI: --is kind
of ridiculous.
Yeah.
But Porsche, then--
cheapest.
TRAVIS OKULSKI: Cheapest.
Yeah, sure.
MIKE SPINELLI: You could say.
But also different methodology,
completely
different methodology,
making power and
using the hybrid system--
TRAVIS OKULSKI: It's
more of a range.
It's range related.
It's torque related, because
the Porsche puts out 920--
if it puts out that
920 pound-feet.
That's 200 more than we've seen
from the other two cars,
which is almost enough to make
up for the weight deficiency.
The car could go the furthest
on the battery power.
It's still incredibly quick
for being the heaviest car
there, still under three
seconds to 60.
MIKE SPINELLI: Better
efficiency, least amount of
CO2s, right?
TRAVIS OKULSKI: Low CO2s.
MIKE SPINELLI: Yeah, we didn't
talk about CO2s.
TRAVIS OKULSKI: CO deuces.
MIKE SPINELLI: Ferrari's the--
CO deuces.
TRAVIS OKULSKI: Sorry.
MIKE SPINELLI: Did you
really say that?
TRAVIS OKULSKI: I did.
Yeah.
MIKE SPINELLI: Ferrari spits
out the most CO2s.
P1 is about half-- well--
TRAVIS OKULSKI: It's
the middle.
MIKE SPINELLI: Middle.
Kind of middle.
But the Porsche is much,
much, much less.
So about half again
from the P2.
So if you look at--
it shakes out as the F1 guys
versus the endurance-related
Le Mans sports car racing.
TRAVIS OKULSKI: It's the
sports car guys.
Yeah.
MIKE SPINELLI: Anything
else, would you say?
TRAVIS OKULSKI: No, no.
That's it.
MIKE SPINELLI: That's
all you got.
TRAVIS OKULSKI: That's
all I got.
MIKE SPINELLI: Anyway, but have
we discovered, have we
figured out whether these cars
are the apex of modern
automotive technology for road
cars, as we know it right now?
TRAVIS OKULSKI: I don't see
how they couldn't be.
MIKE SPINELLI: Couldn't be?
TRAVIS OKULSKI: I
think they are.
That's a simpler way of saying
what I just said.
But I think that
they are apex.
They have the most tech, the
most comp-looking you say
they're not going to be
complex to drive.
They're going to be incredibly
hard to drive
really fast, still.
You say the driver's taken
out of the equation.
If you've got 900 horsepower
and you're driving a car at
its limit, you're involved.
You're very involved.
MIKE SPINELLI: Well, at its
limit, that's going to be a
whole other discussion.
TRAVIS OKULSKI: OK, so
not at the limit.
But if you're still driving the
car around town or driving
it quickly, I still think that
you're going to be very
involved in the experience.
I think that that's
BS to say no.
MIKE SPINELLI: Yeah, well
ultimately, these cars are
like owning a piece--
it's sort of the closest you can
come to owning jet fighter
kinds of tech and have it in
your garage and be able to
drive it around.
TRAVIS OKULSKI: As we say, like
owning a Tesla, I guess,
it's also owning the future for
other types of road cars,
because there are other
solutions than
all-electric cars.
But none of these have hydrogen
power, because that's
not a thing.
I don't think that's going
to be a thing.
MIKE SPINELLI: It doesn't
look like that's
going to be a thing.
TRAVIS OKULSKI: No,
but you've got--
the early adopters always
pay more to be the
first to get something.
So these are the first cars that
have battery packs that
enhance performance by not a
negligible amount but by a
pretty substantial margin
over their regular cars.
They've got very lightweight
construction, especially in
the case of the P1 and
the LaFerrari.
They're beautiful.
I think all three of them
are great looking cars.
It's just the sort of things
where all this tech costs
money, and eventually
we'll see it trickle
down to where we are.
But right now, I don't see a
way that you can argue that
something like an Aventador
or something is on the
same plane as these.
MIKE SPINELLI: Right.
It's also half as much as the--
but also, using a lot of
those technologies, other than
the hybrid stuff, the carbon
fiber stuff and a lot of
the other engine tech.
Anyway, so what do
you guys think?
We already started the
thread on Facebook.
So why don't you go and tell
us what you think.
Are these cars the apex
of road car technology
as we know it today?
Or are they compromised
sports cars?
Let us know.
And that's it for "AFTER/DRIVE"
today.
Travis Okulski from
"Jalopnik."
TRAVIS OKULSKI: Thanks
for having me by.
MIKE SPINELLI: Well, you didn't
let me thank you yet.
TRAVIS OKULSKI: Well, I'm
thanking you for--
MIKE SPINELLI: Thanks, man!
Thanks for coming.
TRAVIS OKULSKI: You're
welcome.
MIKE SPINELLI: All right.
Yeah.
Don't forget, @drive on Twitter,
facebook.com/drivetv.
/drive.tv is where you'll
find all kinds of stuff.
TRAVIS OKULSKI: What about
drive.jalopnik.com?
MIKE SPINELLI: And as
I was going to say--
TRAVIS OKULSKI:
drive.jalopnik.com.
MIKE SPINELLI:
--drive.jalopnik.com, where--
TRAVIS OKULSKI: On
the internet.
MIKE SPINELLI: On
the internets.
TRAVIS OKULSKI: Dot internet.
MIKE SPINELLI: And that's
"AFTER/DRIVE." We'll see you
guys next week.
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