- If you were to imagine
10 years into the future,
[laughing]
what might that look like?
- It's crazy 'cause it's,
I would have had a way more
clear answer when I was 12.
And now I don't know at all.
- What would've the answer
have been when you were 12?
- Making music.
Living in California
with a bunch of friends.
As simple as that.
[funky music]
- [Rick] Do you have anything new
we could listen to?
- [Kevin] Yes.
- [Rick] Let's do it.
Let's start talking about
the newest music you've made
and how the process has changed for you
from the earliest days of
making music in your bedroom.
- Yeah.
- What's new in the way
you're doing it now?
- It all starts the same still.
It'll start in the bedroom or in a house.
I'm like more comfortable making music
at home, for some reason.
What's changed the most
is probably just the fact
that I've gotten older
and I've seen more of the
world, touring and stuff.
I'm not just living in South Central
or in Texas, like, making songs
from such a closed-off perspective.
Some of my problems are rooted in more
of like a privileged perspective, maybe.
Which I don't fully love
'cause sometimes I feel like
my stuff can be kind of
self-indulgent in a way.
And it might make the audience
not connect as much as they
used to be able to connect
with the stuff I was saying earlier on.
So I'm trying to like, get to a spot again
where it's just rooted
in something that's real
but so well-written that
it doesn't seem like
it's just related to me.
- How much do you think of the listener
when you're working on the music?
- As I'm writing, I'm not thinking
about the audience at all.
I think it's once I listen
back to the song like 10 times,
I'm thinking about like how it's gonna fit
into a certain climate
or the world in general.
- Do you feel any kind of obligation
for it accomplish anything or not?
- Yeah, I do.
I think that I'm in such a
unique and blessed position,
I should take advantage of it
and make sure that I'm
saying something that I think
would mean something in
this very moment, you know?
And hopefully sit with someone in a way
that I needed music to sit
with me when I was younger.
- [Rick] I'm guessing that
most of the music that you love
was not made with that in mind.
- [Kevin] Yeah.
- So it could be a dangerous limitation.
- I think it's really
dangerous and I feel like
I make my best stuff
when it's rooted in survival, in a way.
Like I need to make this in order to live
and I feel like even when
I make art in general,
it's like that's the only way
I know how to express myself.
So that's survival, but
living in South Central,
it's also like I need to get out
of this environment, that's survival.
And now, it's like, like I said,
come from more of a privileged place,
which is dangerous as well.
There's something cool about
going away for a long time
and living life and then
going back and making music.
I kind of want to get into that,
but I also feel like I put
myself in the position where,
like, I can't stop making music, you know?
And when I keep making
it, I want to put it out.
And people are used to
that, as well, from me.
- It also seems like you
didn't start doing it
so much with a purpose but more
just self-expression and...
- Yeah.
Self-expression, but also always wanting
to be this big star thing.
And I think I go between
the two constantly.
Like reaching to become
one of the biggest artists
but also trying to survive and express.
- Yeah.
- And sometimes those two
shouldn't be together, I think.
- I'm sure over time
it'll become more clear,
like it'll work itself out is my guess.
- [Kevin] Yeah, yeah.
- Do you always start
writing with a beat in mind?
Does it always come from, like,
will you hear a track and start writing
or might lyrics come
before there's any music?
- I always start with the music.
I think, sometimes, though,
my favorite stuff I'll write is
if I'm just walking somewhere
and something comes to my head,
like oh that'd be a cool song idea.
A cool lyric idea.
And I'd write that down and find a way
to put that into an album I'm writing
or something, you know?
- Does it happen often?
- No.
[laughing]
I wish it happened more.
'Cause it's always my favorite stuff.
- Yeah.
When's the last time it happened?
Where you wrote something down?
- 2016.
- Really?
[Kevin laughs]
That's unbelievable.
- [Kevin] Yeah.
- You think the world
around you has changed
or you've changed since 2016? [laughing]
- I think I just worry better now,
when like music is in front of me
and I'm forced to write something.
- [Rick] Yes.
- If a chorus can't come to me,
I just keep going until I get,
I catch the magic, you know.
There's something special about that.
- How often do you start an idea
and then decide not to
continue to finish it?
- It's been happening more often lately,
and that's because I think,
I'm just more insecure and less confident
as an artist for some reason.
I think the little bit
of success I've seen
has had a lot to do with that.
- It's interesting how
it could go either way.
Like success could be either,
wow people like what I do
so I'm free to do that.
- Yeah, yeah, yeah.
- Or, it could do the opposite
like you're suggesting.
- [Kevin] Yes, yes, exactly.
'Cause early on I think,
when we were making
our first three albums,
everything we were saying
was rooted in just expression
'cause no one was paying attention.
- Yeah.
- [Kevin] And that, those
were some of the most
freeing and the moments I consider magic.
I'm trying to tap back into that.
And like, lose all expectations.
- And was that more, would you say
was more about good lines
as opposed to the overall
piece in those days?
When you liked it?
- Good lines, and also just making stuff
that would make us happy.
Or like trying to impress each other.
You know?
That rooted in fun.
- That sounds really healthy.
- [Kevin] Yeah it is.
It is healthy.
- Any ideas how you
could get back to that?
- We've been doing this thing lately.
Every Friday.
We'll sit in our kitchen
and invite a bunch of
our artist friends over.
And we call it Friday Therapy.
And we'll go around in a circle,
and one by one people will just say
like what their week
has been looking like.
Enough of like, things like that.
Communication and conversations
will help us get back to
like the root of why we do what we do.
And I recently became
friends with Shia LaBeouf
who's like my number one inspiration.
And he's been there every Friday with us,
kinda like, guiding the sessions.
Which is cool.
He's like 10 years older than me,
and I can, it's nice to be able to
go to people like him or you for advice,
when I'm hitting them walls, you know?
- About how many people in the room?
- Like 40 people.
- [Rick] Wow.
- And it'll go on for like 4 1/2 hours.
- [Rick] Amazing.
- Yeah, yeah, yeah.
It's awesome.
- I hope you're filming those.
- We do film them.
And then just keep the footage.
- [Rick] Yes.
- No idea where it's gonna go.
It feels really safe.
It feels safe and like warm
and everyone's cool with opening up.
It'll get really emotional though.
You know, people will cry, laugh,
it's like all over the place.
- It's a great idea.
- [Kevin] It's really cool.
- Yeah how many of 'em have you done?
- Three.
- Beautiful.
- Yeah.
- Beautiful.
- We made a song the first Friday Therapy.
Which was cool.
[Rick] Yeah.
- So while people were talking and stuff
we're also making a
song in the other room.
- I'm imagining the energy in the room
must feel really good.
- It does.
Have you ever done anything like that?
Like do you do that often?
Do you talk through things
with people you collaborate with
or like creative partners?
Are they like really heavy conversations?
- Yes, but rarely do we do it
in a big group.
Usually it's more of an intimate group.
You think the fact that
it's as many people
as it is gives it more power?
- Yeah.
Definitely gives it more power.
In a way.
Well I don't know, actually
intimate conversations
I feel like are very powerful.
I guess it depends.
It depends on what you're searching for.
And on Fridays I think we're searching
for like empathy.
So you're kind of forced to
hear everyone's side and
everyone's perspective
and feel for them in a way.
Like a empathy exercise.
I just needed to find ways
to think about something, someone.
Anything other than me.
Even when, you know I
feel like making music
is very selfish as well so,
I feel like I'm not there for my family
in ways where I would like to be.
And I didn't have enough empathy
for like my mom and my sisters you know.
There's a lot of regret and guilt,
I got because, lyrics I've written.
You sing these songs at shows,
and people will like sing
the lyrics back to you.
About your family members
that they don't know.
And to them they're just characters,
but to me they're real people.
You know it just creates
a space for me to live in
where I just feel guilt.
- Did your mom or sister
ever say anything to you.
- [Kevin] About like lyrics I've written?
I think so.
Yeah.
I've definitely had
[coughs]
like arguments and conversations
with them about it.
It's a confusing thing.
'Cause I feel better after
I write these songs, right?
And it is like my experience.
Just such a, I feel, selfish thing to do
to put the entire story.
My one-sided perspective on display.
And then benefit off of it.
And then feel like I'm not there enough
for my mom in a way.
- And have you talked to
her about how you feel?
- Nope.
[laughs]
I talked about it in the
last interview I did.
With GQ.
And it's funny 'cause the guy
I was talking to about it,
he was saying how like,
he's learned that he
has been communicating
with his mom and with his family
through media in a way,
and through his art.
And it's kinda just been like,
their way of communication.
Which I fully identify with.
- Yeah.
- It makes it a little
bit easier in a way.
'Cause I have to put on a mask
any time I talk to anyone.
'Cause I just like, it's the only way
know how to express myself
is like to perform.
So even right now I'm
wearing like a specific mask.
When I talk to my mom
it's a different one.
And I'm trying to get to a place
where I don't have to wear a mask
and I could just be fully
vulnerable and myself.
But, it's a hard thing to deal with.
So many different sides of me I guess.
- Do you ever wear a mask
when you're by yourself?
- I think so.
[laughing]
Yeah I think so.
- And do you feel like
they change over time
or the masks tend to be same ones?
- Changes all the time.
- I bet there's some exercise you could do
where you have a conversation with,
where the inner you has a conversation
with the mask you.
And you can talk to each other.
- Yeah.
- It'd be an interesting exercise to do.
- That's be very interesting, yeah.
- You start with you,
and you imagine the version of you
who talks to your mom
sitting across from you.
- Yeah, yeah, yeah.
- And you tell him something
that you want him to tell your mom.
And you ask him how he would say it.
And maybe that'd be a good way to start.
- That's a great idea.
[laughs]
That's a really good idea.
- [Rick] Might be fun.
- I love that.
- [Rick] And I think, I don't know.
I feel maybe something
good will come from it.
- Yeah.
- And ultimately if, I don't know why,
and I'm making this up.
But I do believe if you
talk to your mom directly,
less mask, it might feel good.
- I believe you.
I need to find the courage I guess.
- Yeah, was it always hard
for you to talk to people
even before everything that's happened?
- Yeah it's always been
harder to talk to people.
But it's been, it was easy to communicate
with my friends.
- [Rick] Yes.
- Even now, it's like I find it hard
to be a good leader in a way.
Because of the lack of confidence.
So when I walk into a room
and we're all making music
I don't feel as comfortable.
I don't know what it is.
And in a way I'm pushing them away
and I'm not really communicating with them
the way I used to.
It's like a intimacy issue.
Like I'll let someone in but not fully.
And as soon as I fully
start to let them in
I want to push them away.
And it's weird because it's happening
with the people that I've known
for like almost the past 10 years.
I'm trying to figure it
out every day I guess.
That's all it is.
'Cause I wanna be around these people.
I wanna be there and I
wanna be a better leader.
And stronger.
And it's just hard to
say how I feel sometimes.
To the people I really care about.
- Another interesting thing to,
thing that comes up for
you to consider trying is,
I'll compare you being the leader
to driving the bus.
And everybody's on the bus,
and you're driving the bus.
And maybe see what it's like
if you take turns.
Have people take turns driving the bus.
- [Kevin] Yeah.
- And you just get to
ride on the bus sometimes
and see what that's like.
- That sounds awesome.
- Could be good, right?
- That sounds awesome.
- You can make that happen. [laughing]
You can make that happen.
- Yeah, yeah, yeah.
- Is there anybody that you're,
anyone in your life that you're around
where you don't feel like
you have to wear the mask?
Or a mask?
I understand that's different
for different people.
- Yeah.
No.
'Cause even if I'm alone,
it's like who am I
supposed to be right now?
And it's not like I'm
actively trying to do it
it just happens naturally.
- [Rick] Yeah.
- Maybe rooted in the
fact that when I was a kid
I was taught to treat
adults a specific way.
And like, you know, perform
in a way in front of them.
At least my earliest memories of knowing
I have to act a certain
way in front of someone,
it goes back to that.
And I've just been doing
that my whole life.
Like constantly.
- Do you remember what
some of those rules were?
- I remember being loud, and
being told not to be loud.
If I was like a wild color,
I was a younger, like the younger version
of myself which I think I was,
I like, became this more grayish thing.
- What I'm hearing you say is a lot
of what's changing is
all happening inside you.
And not necessarily due to what's going on
around outside of you.
So it's really just self discovery,
that's the mission is more
getting in touch with
and getting connected with your true self.
Without feel like you're
being told how to be
or what to do,
or second guessing yourself.
Sounds like the story you talked about,
about being told not to be loud.
The message you got
wasn't just don't be loud,
it's that you can't trust
what feels natural to you.
- Yes.
Exactly.
- So anything that can get you back
in touch with owning your own power
would probably be healthy.
- Right.
- When you start an idea
is it clear whether it's
gonna be for a group project,
or for a solo project?
Or does it matter in those early stages
when you're making it?
- If I'm starting an
idea for a group song,
I'm gonna be a specific version of myself.
'Cause in the group setting I get to,
I can just blend in and
let other people shine.
It's not at all about me
being this vulnerable thing.
So, yeah it just depends.
And I think I let the music guide me,
sometimes the music fits more
into the world of the Brockhampton song
is supposed to be versus
a Kevin Abstract song.
- If you're in the middle
of a Kevin Abstract project,
and you come up with a song that you think
might lend itself more to the group,
would you hold it aside?
- I did that recently and I regret it.
- [Rick] Why?
- Because I feel like it would have been
a stronger moment for the group.
- So, I just want to really understand.
You thought it would be a
stronger moment for the group,
so you held it back?
- I held it back because
I loved it so much
and selfishly I put it on my own record.
- [Rick] Oh I see.
- [Kevin] Yeah.
- So that came during a group session,
but you thought it suited your album more.
- A solo session but I
went in with the intent,
this is gonna be for the group record.
- [Rick] I see.
- I just can't stop making
music it seems like.
I don't know if that's good or bad though.
What do you think?
Do you think like?
- [Rick] I think it's
good to keep making it.
- No matter what.
- [Rick] No matter what.
- Yeah.
- Absolutely.
'Cause it's like you said,
it's a form of therapy for you.
And you get to really express
yourself through music.
It's always healthy to have that outlet.
I think without it,
I don't know how happy you'd be.
- [Kevin] Right.
- How less, how much less
happy you'd be. [laughs]
- Right, so like good or bad,
its expressive and once
it's out, it's out.
And you just move on to the next thing.
- Yeah I think the key is that it's true
in the moment, it's true in the moment
that you make it.
And if you think of it
almost like a diary input,
you know, it's like.
This is a moment in time.
And it's not, this doesn't
have to be forever.
And we all change, all the time.
As long as it's a true reflection
of where you're at in that moment.
That's good.
- Yeah.
- How has your relationship
with the rest of the guys in the group
developed over time?
- It's gotten stronger.
As a whole.
Like as a brotherhood.
Community.
It's like very, very tight.
Me personally, I just feel myself pushing
a lot of people, like out of my life.
Without trying to.
Just becoming more closed off.
- Does that feel like a positive
or a negative to you?
- I think it's positive in the sense
that I can see what it
is and talk about it.
Negative because it
becomes hard to tell people
what is going on in my personal life
or whatever it is.
Or what is is that I'm feeling day to day.
Another positive to that is
I can write about that stuff.
Makes better songs, you know?
Better group songs.
- So you feel like maybe in the past
if there was someone in your life
that it was not a good relationship
you might just not say anything
and just sort of deal
with the discomfort of that relationship?
- Like a passive-aggressive type approach?
- Not intentional, but maybe.
Just like, just not, I'm thinking
more not standing up for yourself
in a relationship.
- In the past.
- [Rick] Yeah.
- For sure.
Yeah.
- So now by changing that.
It sounds like a form of self care,
of like taking care of yourself
in a way that you weren't
able to do before.
- Yeah I guess.
It doesn't feel like that though.
- It sounds like that.
Like it sounds like
what you're describing,
and I see your discomfort in it.
But the discomfort in it is because
someone else's feelings are involved.
And you're empathetic.
So from a empathetic point of view,
it's like if you're empathetic
for your moms feelings,
you're not gonna be loud.
But by not being loud,
you aren't being true to yourself.
- Right.
Right, right, right, right.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
- [Rick] It's like finding that balance
to where you can always be yourself.
And be true to yourself,
but communicate in a way
where those around you don't,
are not blindsided by it.
- [Kevin] Yeah.
- Where you can just say it.
- [Kevin] Yeah.
- And you'd be surprised,
when you get in the habit of explaining,
you know telling people
how you really feel.
Even if you're concerned that
it's gonna hurt their feelings,
that ultimately it leads
to a better relationship
all the way around.
- [Kevin] Stronger?
- Yeah.
And better.
Because if you have these feelings inside
and you're not sharing
them with the other person,
they're going along thinking
you're a different
person than who you are.
So it's almost like a
not real relationship.
And you're not really,
you can be sitting next to each other
but you're not really together
because even thought you're experiencing
the same thing, you're seeing the world
in such a radically different way.
That the only way to bridge that
is to really talk through it.
And it either brings you closer together,
or it brings you clarity in separation
in a positive way.
You know like it's okay that,
especially over time I
think you'll see that
some of your friends will grow
with you on the same path.
And other friends will
just have a different path.
And it's cool.
- And you feel that clarity that you get
after telling someone
how you feel about them
is more important than,
something like crashing and burning.
And it being over.
Say you have a creative partner.
Get into this big argument or discussion.
And the relationship burns.
You think that clarity is more important
than like trying to fake your
way through the marriage.
- Faking your way through is always bad.
- [Kevin] Yeah.
- It's always bad.
- [Kevin] Yeah, yeah, yeah.
You've never seen it work ever?
- [Rick] No.
No.
It's like, it just builds.
What's unsaid builds.
The way you just described it,
of telling someone what you think of them,
maybe that's not the
right way to think of it.
- Yeah, yeah, yeah.
- [Rick] Maybe it's more like,
sharing how you feel.
- Right.
- How we feel is how we feel
and has less to do with anyone else.
It's like people may
trigger something in us,
but ultimately the response is us.
You know its, they do what they do,
it's only a problem if its our problem.
- [Kevin] Yeah exactly.
- You know?
Or if you see your friend
hurting themselves,
and you wanna say, as a good friend,
like yo, I care about you.
Maybe I don't know, you
may wanna watch that.
- Right.
- It's like I'll miss you
if something bad happens you know?
- Right.
That's coming from a place of care, right?
And not like, an attack.
- It is, it's all about
taking care of yourself.
And if you're not taking care of yourself,
you can't take care of anybody else.
It's like the first part is to,
you know when you're on an airplane,
and they say if something happens
if you're with a baby.
Put your mask on before
you put the baby's mask on.
- Yeah.
- You know, so it's like
if you always have to
take care of yourself to be in a position
to help other people.
What are you working on now?
Writing wise?
- The fifth Brockhampton album.
Just trying to make good summertime music.
Better choruses.
I feel like I haven't been
writing good hooks lately.
So I'm trying to tap into that.
As better melodic stuff.
Simple and effective too.
I think that's what's connecting the most
with people right now.
Simple in every aspect
with the instrumental, the words.
Everything, like just very direct.
And familiar in a way.
- Could you imagine ever
doing a whole project
with no rapping?
- Yeah I'd love to.
I wanna become a better singer though.
And I don't mean like
on a technical aspect
where like I blow people away
like American Idol style.
Just a better vocal performance
that I would like to listen to as a fan.
- I will say as a fan,
I really like it when you sing.
- Thank you.
Thanks. [laughs]
Thanks a lot.
- Just as much as when you rap.
- Thanks.
That's cool.
That's great to hear.
- If you were to imagine
10 years into the future.
[laughing]
What might that look like?
- It's crazy 'cause it's,
I would have had a way more clear answer
when I was 12.
And now I don't know at all.
I don't know if it's because it's rooted
in like me wanting to do
so many different things?
- [Rick] Yeah.
- As an artist.
Or if it's just like,
some days I don't want to do this at all.
- What would've the answer
been when you were 12?
- Making music.
Living in California
with a bunch of friends.
Simple as that.
Like that's all I wanted to do, ever.
So maybe I'd wanna be
making stuff in 10 years,
with a bunch of friends.
I don't know where I'd wanna live though.
I love California though.
I love it here.
Do you feel like a lot
of your favorite artists
continued making music?
Like they just kept
going and never stopped.
Didn't matter about age of whatever.
Or was there a moment where they retired?
- I think most of them kept going
out of that, it's what they do
and they wouldn't know
what else to do in life.
- [Kevin] Right.
- So it's less of a choice, and more of a,
it's what we do.
- Andre's one of my favorites. ,
in a lot of his interviews
he'll talk about
how like, some rappers
should know when to stop.
As a fan though, I kind of want to hear
where my favorite artist
is no matter what.
It's interesting to see the growth
and like the change in character.
- And interestingly, I
think Andre would like to
make music and put it out.
You know?
Like he'd like to do that.
He just is dealing with
some issues around it.
- [Kevin] Right.
- Wants to.
When we get advice from people
it's always based on their experience
not our experience.
You know, people are
really wanting to help.
- [Kevin] Yeah.
- In sharing their story,
But so much of the story
is so singular to them.
That the same rules may
not apply to everybody.
- [Kevin] Right.
- Do you think where you grew up
played a role in who you are?
- 100%.
I did this thing where I took a treadmill
to Corpus Christi, Texas,
which is the city I grew up in.
And I put the treadmill in
front of my childhood home.
On Brockhampton Street.
And I walked and ran on the treadmill
for 10 hours straight.
And did a live stream of it,
and tweeted out the address.
So the audience could come and visit me
while I'm on the treadmill.
And like while fans are
coming and being nice
and giving me food and pizza
and making sure that I'm
staying good and healthy.
Childhood friends would drive by,
their parents would
drive by and wave at me.
And like tell me things like,
it's been amazing watching you grow.
And stuff like that.
Made me realize that,
yeah I wouldn't be who I am right now
without being in that city as a kid.
Or being from that place, so.
And that's some of the stuff
I wish I tapped into more on my record.
I think my favorite part about my album
is the fact that it's honest.
And genuine.
I wanna do less over-thinking though.
At the end of the day
I wanna be prolific,
and have all my ideas just out there.
Just move on to the next one.
- [Rick] That sounds good.
That's a good, something
good to aspire to.
- [Kevin] Yeah.
- And it sounds like it would feel good
to live in that reality.
In the case of any particular song,
how much do they change
from the time that you start it
till the time you feel like, there it is.
- I was making this song
on my last album called "Use Me".
And the first version I made in a day.
The second, I think Jack,
the guy who produced the album with me,
spent like another day on it.
So it was like two days
total working on the song.
But the one we made in that first day,
I played it for my friend,
and I compared it to the second version
that Jack did, and my friend was like,
there's something really special
when it feels like a song
is just made in a day,
and that's it.
And it's out.
I want to follow that.
I want to lean into that
and keep making things
that are just right there
in the moment.
I've learned that those type of ideas
always get the best and
strongest reactions from people.
I think it's because it's rooted
in something that's real.
- Do you ever feel like something changes
through the process for the better?
Like the opposite of that story?
Has that ever happened?
- Yeah that happens.
Not as often though, for me.
- [Rick] Yeah.
Do you ever learn anything about the songs
in retrospect that you didn't know
when you were makin' 'em?
- Yeah.
When I'm writing a song
I never know what the song is about.
So yeah. [laughs]
So in like a few months,
I'm like oh that's what
I was tryin' to say.
And I'm in no rush to find out,
it just feels good to
say things sometimes.
Like it feels good to be
in front of the microphone
and be saying a bunch of random words
until the story is set up,
and then that's the hook.
Or reverse the set up.
- Do you ever change any lyrics
when you perform songs live?
- Yes I do.
I do do that.
Because time passes,
so I'll say something that's very in tune
with what's happening currently.
And then six months, a year later
I may not connect to that line anymore
so I'll change it to something
that is more in tune to what's happening.
- Are there any lines
that you look forward
to saying on stage or any that you,
the opposite you know?
Where you just feel like I'd
rather not say that tonight.
- I do feel that way.
There's a Brockhampton
song called "Junkie",
and there's all these lyrics about my mom
and about me being gay,
and like I don't want to perform that song
ever again just because that guilt
I was talking about earlier.
- You feel an obligation to perform it
or you cool not performing it?
- I do because I think that song,
people live with those lyrics
and those lyrics mean a lot to the kids
that identify with our music.
So I do feel obligated in that sense.
But if it's not bringing me peace
I don't wanna do it.
- I think some of those things,
like making the choice not to do a song
that you are as comfortable with
or that makes you feel bad.
Recognizing it, and following how you feel
is one of the things
that's gonna let you do it
for a long time.
It's like building a wall
between you and your art.
- [Kevin] Yeah.
- Have you ever written a song
to a particular piece of music
and then changed the music
to the point where it's not recognizable
to the original thing that
got you started writing?
- Yes.
I do that all the time.
That's how I finish songs.
Normally.
- [Rick] So it sounds like the music's
that you start with, it's purpose is more
as a writing tool, than necessarily
as this is how the record goes.
- Yeah it sets up a scene for me.
In a way.
But that, the background can change.
Once I tell the story,
if that makes sense.
- [Rick] Yeah.
- You know, so.
That's something I
learned from you though.
Any time I get stuck,
And I feel like if the
song is just not moving
the way that I want it to,
we'll just listen to the a capella,
just listen to the voice, the vocal.
And play new chords around that
and see what it inspires.
- Wow, did I suggest that?
- [Kevin] Yeah.
- I have no memory.
- Yeah, yeah, yeah.
- [Rick] Amazing.
- Almost two years ago.
That's how we finished a
lot of Brockhampton songs.
'Cause the issue it was, I told you,
that every time we got to the chorus,
it felt like it wasn't moving.
It just stayed like that the whole time,
and not in a good way.
- [Rick] Yeah.
- You know?
Like you get bored by the
time the chorus comes in, so.
It's the best when it feels effortless.
The change, you know?
- Have you done solo shows?
- Not recently.
No.
Last time I did them was like 2016.
- Do you plan on doing any
shows around the current album?
- I don't know, because
the songs are so personal.
And it's like, awkward in a way.
Just awkward.
The group stuff is fun
'cause we're all these
different characters on stage.
Just having...
- [Rick] Just have a party.
- Yeah, it's like a party, yeah.
- If you don't do
whatever the live version
of this album is, it's gonna evolve into
songs that happen sometimes
in the context of the band.
And it'll be cool in that aspect,
but it'll never be the
quintessential version
of this experience, you know?
- Yes.
Yes, yes, yes.
- Do you think the group songs
are gonna get more personal
based on how the solo album went?
- Yeah.
And I'm doing this thing
where I'm trying to write
really, really personal stuff.
But make it be fun.
So it can fit that party setting
that you're talking about.
- Yeah.
- It's rooted in trauma,
but it's not so dark to
where you wanna listen
to it in the darkness,
you can listen to it
when you're like driving
and sun's out, having a good time.
- [Rick] Yeah.
- That's the goal for me right now.
It's like being real and uplifting
and honest and all that
stuff at the same time.
- Yeah.
That's the way comedy works, really.
- Exactly.
Yeah, yeah, I've been saying that too.
- It's like always talking
about really hard serious stuff
but in a way to be able
to laugh the energy out
instead of cry it out.
- [Kevin] Yeah.
- Were there any particular
traumatic events in your life?
Or was it more of a, not
being seen for who you are?
Or not feeling comfortable
with who you are
in the setting you were in?
Was there any events,
like that was traumatic?
- I think so many different things.
The most recent one that
has really stuck with me,
was kicking a friend out of the group.
Like fully [beep] me up because
it's someone I've known since I was 14.
Almost a decade.
And just like fully cutting someone off
in front of people, the audience.
It's just a wild thing.
Something you think
about every single day.
- [Rick] Have you talked
to the person since?
- [Kevin] Yes.
Once.
- How was that?
- We ran into each other somewhere
and it was really quick.
Heartbreaking in a way, you know?
- [Rick] Do you miss 'em?
- Yes.
Yeah.
Being in a group is weird.
It's weird, it's a weird thing.
Being in a group with people
you've know for a long
time is a weird thing.
I wonder what it was
like for One Direction
to be put together, not
really know each other.
Not have like, history.
- Maybe that makes it easier.
- That's what I'm saying.
- [Rick] Yeah.
- That's what I'm saying.
- [Rick] Maybe.
- Our shit is rooted in like brotherhood.
Like, real family shit, you know?
- You have any regrets about the decision?
- [Kevin] No.
More time to talk, that's it.
I wish that.
I didn't make the the decision so quickly,
even if we made the exact same decision,
I wish there was a little bit more time
to talk is all I'm saying.
And maybe that's because I just missed
how shit used to be.
So it's like I wish there
was a little bit more time.
You know?
Maybe that's where that come from.
- How has it changed the other
relationships in the band?
- I think that's, you know,
that's probably the thing that
has been pushing me away from everyone
in a sense where it's like I just,
it's like identity crisis almost.
Who am I?
What is this?
What's the purpose of this?
- It's funny that your name
is Kevin Abstract and you have
an identity crisis. [laughs]
- Yeah.
It is funny.
[laughing]
- It's almost like you
wrote the character.
- Yeah, yeah exactly.
- It's built in.
I still wanna understand more
about how the relationship
between the band members changed since.
So you said, you feel like
you've lost focus of yourself.
And did it start with that event?
- 100%, yes.
- [Rick] Wow!
- Yeah.
- [Rick] Wow.
- It's made me more insecure.
As a leader, as a artist.
Question what I'm capable
of, creatively even.
But I don't think it's gonna
stay like that forever,
I'm not saying like it's
over for me or anything.
It's just that way I am,
and I'm recognizing it.
- [Rick] Yes.
- And that's making the work
better for me right now.
It's making the songs more true,
and videos and everything I do so,
just saying it out loud does a lot for me.
- Yeah.
It sounds like it's allowing
yourself to go deeper.
Is music the primary part of all of this?
Or is it as much about the visuals,
the artwork, the way you
decide to release music?
How do you see the
importance of the different
aspects of you as an artist?
- I'm obsessed with every aspect of it.
The presentation is like my favorite part.
It's where I have the most fun.
Just 'cause I like world-building,
I like making something
for me and my friends
to look at and be like,
wow that's cool.
That's like a universe we came up with.
Aesthetically it's really cool.
We're like creating characters
and then seeing people at shows
come dressed up as those characters.
- Is that true?
- [Kevin] Yeah, yeah.
- So cool.
- We would be painted blue,
and have these orange jumpsuits on,
and the fans will come
to the shows like that.
Things as small as that,
that does a lot for me.
And then that is all fueled by the music.
You know the music is like the thing
that helps me set up the world.
Visually, yeah.
- With those characters,
I'll call them other-worldly characters
so we know which ones we're talking about.
- Okay.
- How much do you know
about them in the beginning?
Like does it start with just a picture
of a character?
Or is there a backstory?
- It starts with an image.
I just, I'm obsessed with images.
And like things, an idea.
Like a heightened version
of one of my friends.
If the image is striking to me,
or cool, or like interesting, whatever.
- So you may not have
to know what it means?
- I never know what it means.
- Do you eventually
ever know what it means?
Does it usually...
- Yeah, sometimes a
narrative can be created
through the images I'm attracted to.
- [Rick] Yeah.
- The reason we're painted blue,
is because I watched
this Busta Rhymes video.
Directed by Hype Williams
and they were painted red,
and I was like it would be
interesting if we were blue.
So we're blue, but then that becomes like
a story within itself.
A few more videos in, you know?
I think I'd be a stronger writer
if I went in with a little bit more intent
at the very beginning.
That seems like the more
challenging thing to do,
and I'm more comfortable
with just like writing stuff
that just comes out.
But I think I need to
challenge myself more
if I wanna be like
incredible, really good.
And I have all these
like crazy expectations
for myself so maybe I should follow that,
lean into that.
More like challenging route.
- Yeah.
I will say there's no right way, so.
- [Kevin] Yeah.
- That said, it's really
cool to experiment
and try different ways
because you never know.
Especially if you're really comfortable
doing it one way.
Trying it a different way
will at least lead to something different.
And then you can decide
whether it's good or not.
Especially as you make more stuff.
It can be more about finding ways
to not make the same thing.
- [Kevin] Right.
- So sometimes switching
methods switches it up.
- [Kevin] Right.
- Can you walk me through
the process of making a song.
From the very beginning, till it's done.
Every step.
- So, with solo stuff
it'd be me and Romil,
who's like my number one
creative collaborator.
I guess like all the ideas,
it's just me and him in a room.
We'll be on tour, and we'd
stop at random studios
on a off day.
Middle America, like random places.
And we'll just go through musical ideas
until something, until I find something
I connect with emotionally.
- What might those
musical ideas look like?
- Simple and effective chords.
That's what I was going for first.
Something I could just write,
a well written chorus to.
- And on a Brockhampton project,
how would that happen?
Or how has it happened in the past
'cause it might be different this time
as you go deeper.
- [Kevin] Right, right.
In the past it just starts
with a really simple beat.
Five guys in a room, the mic
in the middle of the room,
and like us free styling
and trying to impress each other,
one-up each other.
Who has like the best idea?
Every one will lay down a chorus, a verse.
To see what like, sticks.
- Do you do it in front of each other,
or do you do 'em separately?
- In front of each other.
We have a big whiteboard
and we write the lyrics together,
we'll critique each other's lyrics.
And we really write the
songs together as a group.
It gets very lonely writing solo songs.
For me, 'cause I have so
much fun with everyone else.
I'll sit with like a six minute demo
of all the ideas,
and just jot down my favorite ideas.
What I think would be,
Matt could have like a 16 bar verse,
and there might be,
8 bars in that verse
that might feel really
effective as a bridge
or an altro moment.
So then you just take that
and slide it over there
and the song just starts to get smaller
and smaller over time.
We start cutting people's verses up.
Making like an intro and
altro, stuff like that.
I'm also into this idea
of the group constantly
changing over time.
My goal, is that one day,
maybe like in five years, 10 years.
All the members that are
currently on the roster
will be removed from the group,
and there would be a
brand new group of people.
Under the name Brockhampton,
releasing music.
So like, we could add a member this year,
and then next year add another member.
And then we'll slowly keep leaving.
The OG members, if that makes sense.
- Do you ever talk about any things
in the songs that you haven't experienced.
- I used to.
When I was writing music when I was 17,
everything I said was like, a lie.
Made up.
- [Rick] Fantasy.
- Fantasy.
Now it's...
- [Rick] Hip hop.
It was hip hop.
- Yeah.
Yeah, yeah.
I don't really do that now.
The worst is like writing something
that's personal and it doesn't sound good.
It's like an awkward
thing to listen back to
in front of people.
- The delivery system makes it so good
that you can get past the fact
that it's so revealing.
- [Kevin] Exactly.
Exactly.
- So if it's not working,
and then it's really like wow. [laughs]
I just exposed my soul,
and it didn't work.
- [Kevin] Yeah.
But sometimes I've learned that I can take
those same lyrics and
take them somewhere else.
- [Rick] Yeah.
In the context of a project,
if you hear one song
that's clearly summer fun fantasy,
and then the next one
is a really personal heavy song,
the personal heavy song
might feel even heavier,
because you just heard
something that wasn't.
- [Kevin] Yeah.
- Do you know what I'm saying by?
Sometimes the more every
song touches similar emotions
in a project, it can work two ways.
One, they can amplify each other.
And the whole becomes much more powerful
because it's like
reinforcing this emotion.
And sometimes it does the opposite,
where it's like, hmm.
By the sixth song it's like wow.
It's all like, same energy.
- [Kevin] I've heard enough.
- Yeah.
And again, there's no right or wrong.
It's just the more moves
to the basket you have, the better.
- Yeah.
See that's what I thought was interesting
about Tyler's new album,
was like, every song is
touching on the same thing.
But he found a different
way to talk about it.
Every song to where it's interesting,
and people can listen to
it on loop the whole time.
My issue with writing mine
was I thought every song
was me talking about the same thing.
And it became like
self-indulgent or boring.
- Yeah.
- And, after hearing his album I'm like
maybe I should have leaned into that,
'cause it amplified it like you just said.
For me, as a listener.
- I think they're both great. [laughs]
So, it's okay.
- I just don't wanna
run away from something
that I'm feeling.
And if I was feeling that throughout
the whole album maybe I should have
just done that.
- The good news is you're
allowed to be self-indulgent.
It's one of the great things
about being an artist.
- You don't think it becomes like,
by the time you're on the sixth song
it's like I've heard enough.
- Depends how good it is.
- [Kevin] That's true.
- It's the same, it's like
when you bare your soul
and the tracks not good enough,
it's like oh. [laughs]
- [Kevin] Yeah.
- It's the same.
- [Kevin] If it's good it works.
- Finding the way to make it work.
- [Kevin] Yeah.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
You're right.
I think the first step
is recognizing I'm not there yet.
- [Rick] Yeah.
For sure.
And giving yourself
permission to go there.
- [Kevin] Right.
- Is part of it.
Should we move inside,
listen to some music?
- Sounds good.
This has been great.
- [Rick] Cool.
- This has been cool.
[funky music]
