CHRIS GREEN: Attention.
Hi, so my name is Chris Green.
I'm the executive director of
the Animal Law & Policy Program
here at Harvard Law School.
We'd like to thank our
partner organization
for helping organize this event,
the Harvard Animal Law Society.
I've got several members
in the room today.
And as many of you may know,
we started our new Animal & Law
Policy Clinic just
this September,
and yesterday was a big day.
We actually filed
our first lawsuit,
and Boanne Wassink in
the room was very much
involved in that case.
[APPLAUSE]
Suing the USDA over
failure to reply
in a timely manner
about a petition
on the primate psychological
well-being for animals
used in research.
The Boston Globe did a big
story about it yesterday,
so we couldn't be
happier about that.
And part of the reason
the Boston Globe
did a story is because
this year we also hired
a wonderful new communications
manager, Sarah Pickering, who
actually has worked with Leah
in several other capacities.
So, I'm going to head it
over to her and she's going
to introduce our
speaker, Leah Garcés.
[APPLAUSE]
SARAH PICKERING: Thanks so
much, everybody, for coming.
It's a particular
pleasure for me
to introduce Leah because
she's one of my oldest
and dearest friends.
And obviously, by
oldest I mean we've
known each other for a
long time because we're not
all youthful still.
[LAUGHTER]
Leah has been president of Mercy
for Animals for the past year,
and she's been fighting
for better food and farming
systems for nearly 20 years.
She oversaw staff in
more than 14 countries
at the World Society for
the Protection of Animals,
now World Animal Protection,
which is where we first
met some 15 or so years ago.
And prior to that, she worked
at Compassion in World Farming.
She really is one of the most
strategic, and also kindest
individuals I know, and I
think you'll learn a lot.
And I hope you'll ask her some
really challenging questions,
so that we can have a great
conversation at the end
of Leah's presentation.
Thank you.
LEAH GARCÉS: Thank you.
[APPLAUSE]
Thank you so much.
And thank you, especially,
to Chris and Sarah,
who made it possible
for me to be here today,
and moved mountains to make
this room available given
the busy, busy schedule,
as it turns out,
that the issues around
animal interests are.
So, thank you all for coming
and choosing to be here today.
So, how many people have heard
of Mercy for Animals before?
All right, we're in good shape.
Excellent, excellent.
All right.
Well, then you're going
to know a little bit
about our organization,
our vision.
So, I took over
about a year ago.
Before that, for eight years
I had been running Compassion
in World Farming, USA.
And the first thing I did was
work on a new strategic plan.
So, what you're
going to see here
is our new vision
and our mission,
which we've been working
through in the last year or so.
Our vision is very specific.
It is a world where
animals are respected,
protected, and free to
pursue their own interests.
Who shares that vision?
Who thinks that would be
a nice world to live in?
Yes.
Somebody clap?
Yeah, I want to
hear a whoo, yeah!
[APPLAUSE]
Right?
That's a good world.
That's a world I
want to live in.
How are we going to do
that, is our mission.
So our mission-- and this is
very specific wording that
tells you a little
bit about who we are--
it is to construct a
compassionate food system.
And so, we've chosen those
words specifically, "construct."
So, we are not just
a destructive force,
which is destroying factory
farming, which is definitely
bad, but we are also a
positive force in the world.
We really want to construct
a food system that's
good for everyone.
And when I say everyone, I mean
chickens, I mean communities,
I mean eaters, I mean the
planet, I mean wildlife.
I mean everyone.
And we want to do
this in two ways.
One is reduce the suffering
of animals that are currently
trapped in factory farming.
There's 80 billion of them.
So that means getting rid of
things like cages, and crates,
and genetics that drive animals
to their metabolic limits.
And the second part of that
is ending the exploitation
of animals for food altogether.
That means a plant based world.
So that's who Mercy for
Animals, specifically, is.
Still following me?
AUDIENCE: Yeah.
LEAH GARCÉS: Everyone's good?
All right, good.
All right, two slides in and
I still have your attention.
This is good.
OK, I'm going to tell
you a little story.
You guys ready for story time?
All right, it's not nap time.
It's different.
So in 2014, I found
myself sitting across
from a man who, by every
definition, was my enemy.
His name is Craig
Watts, and he's
a chicken factory farmer who
brings chickens to slaughter.
My career is devoted to
protecting farmed animals
and ending factory farming.
And up until this point, I
had spent every waking moment
trying to fight against
everything this man stood for,
and now I was in
his living room.
And as I sat there,
the questions
were really swirling
around in my head.
Why had this man invited me?
Why had I gone?
And to be honest, I had
been trying for many years
to get footage from inside a
chicken factory farm at a time
when it is, and was,
nearly impossible to get
images like that out.
And this was the last resort.
I had no other options.
I needed to get
this footage out.
And that day, I had driven
from my home in Atlanta
to Craig's home in
Fairmont, North Carolina.
And I literally was convinced
there was an ambush.
There would be farmers
with pitchforks,
and they would be
waiting for me.
This could not-- why would this
man invite me into his home,
and to see his farm?
And I remember calling
my husband on the way
there, and saying, OK,
here's the address.
Because if I don't come back,
look for me rotting away
in the chicken litter.
And that day did
change my life forever.
So that day, this man,
the day I met him,
Craig Watts had been
raising chickens
for 22 years for a
company called Perdue.
They are the fourth largest
chicken company in the country.
And when he was a young man,
he was searching for this way
to stay on the land that
had been passed down
through five generations
in his family,
in one of the poorest counties
in rural North Carolina.
There weren't a lot of jobs,
so when the chicken industry
came to town, he thought,
this is a dream come true.
So he took a quarter of
a million dollar loan
out, and with that money he
built some chicken houses,
and he raised
chickens for Purdue.
And with the paycheck
they gave him,
he started to pay off
that loan like a mortgage.
But pretty soon, the
chicken's started to get sick.
After all, it's a
factory farm, and there's
25,000 chickens that are stuffed
wall to wall in a warehouse.
Windowless, living
on their own feces,
breathing toxic ammonia air.
And he started to struggle
to pay off that loan.
And when chickens get
sick and they die,
you don't get paid for them.
So he started to fall behind
on paying off that loan.
And pretty soon, he realized
he had made a mistake,
and he wanted out, but he was
all but an indentured servant
at this stage.
And by the time I met him, he
had reached a breaking point.
The payments seemed
never-ending,
as did the death, and illness,
and despair of the chickens.
If we, humans, had tried to come
up with a farming system that
was horribly cruel,
and dirty, and unfair,
we really couldn't have
come up with something
as horrible as chicken
factory farming,
or factory farming altogether.
80 billion farmed animals
are raised and slaughtered
in horrific conditions
every single year,
stuffed in warehouses, in cages,
never to see the light of day.
And that's not just a problem
for the farmed animals,
of course.
Factory farming is responsible
for more greenhouse gas
emissions than the
world's planes,
trains, and automobiles
put together.
And one third of our arable
land is being used right now
to grow feed for factory farmed
animals instead of us, humans.
And that land is sprayed
with immeasurable chemicals,
and we are cutting down
ecologically important habitats
like rain forests, like the
Amazon burning up right now.
The way things are
going, my three kids
will never have the chance
to see wild polar bear,
Sumatran elephant.
In my lifetime, the number of
birds, amphibians, reptiles,
and mammals has halved.
And the main culprit
is our global appetite
for meat, dairy, and eggs.
And up until that point, the
main culprits, the main villain
for me, was Craig Watts,
but it's really easy
to hate someone you've
never met before.
And as I listened
to his struggles
and his surprising hatred for
a system that I also hated,
my fear and my anger
that I held towards him
was replaced with
something else.
Shame.
I felt ashamed.
I had never once considered
his struggle, his strife,
the choices he had made
in one of the poorest
counties in rural
North Carolina,
where there were no
other job options.
In fact, up until the
point of meeting him,
I had been only angry at him,
blamed him and people like him.
In fact, I had wished him ill.
I'd wished he'd lose
his job, and not
be able to feed his family as
an angry animal rights activist.
I had never once thought,
could he be a potential ally?
I had never thought,
maybe he feels as trapped
as the chickens.
So at this point, Craig and
I had been sitting there
for hours, and mid-day had
turned into afternoon, to dusk,
to darkness.
And suddenly, he asked me, do
you want to see the chickens?
Why had he waited
until darkness?
He did not want to raise
suspicion with his neighbors.
He didn't want maybe his
service tech to see me.
There was a lot of risk for
him, as well, having me there.
And so without further ado,
he led me to a big gray house,
and he swung open
this wooden door.
And we stepped in,
and we were met
with his overpowering smell.
And I just remember every
muscle in my body tensing up,
and my eyes tearing
and coughing.
And I was so overwhelmed with
my own physical discomfort
that I didn't even
look around at first.
But when I did, I was horrified.
I was moved to tears.
All around me were
tens of thousands
of newly hatched chicks
in a windowless warehouse,
living on their own feces, with
nothing to do, nowhere to go.
And I knew within a month
that these sentient beings,
no different than the
cats that I love at home,
would grow at a
terribly fast pace.
They would suffer,
and then end up
on someone's plate in America.
So over the next few
months, I came back
many, many times with my friend
and filmmaker, Reagan Hodge,
and I learned from Craig.
I walked the houses with him
as he explained the problems
to me.
As he picked up dead or dying
chickens that had messed up
legs, trouble breathing,
couldn't walk at all.
And all of these horrors,
all of these conversations,
we captured on film.
And then we decided
to do something
I never expected to do.
We decided to
release that footage,
and that was a big
risk for both of us.
For him, he risks
losing everything.
He risks losing his
income, his land.
He risked his
neighbors hating him.
Everyone around him raises
chickens for Purdue,
so he was outing
the company that
was providing income, food
on the table, for everyone
around him.
And I risked--
I was afraid of getting
my organization,
Compassionate World Farming,
the one I was working at then,
sued.
And I risked being responsible.
I feared being responsible
for him losing everything.
But we decided to do it anyway.
The New York Times broke the
story, and within 24 hours
a million people
had seen our video.
It went viral.
And suddenly, we
had this megaphone.
Our unlikely alliance put the
horrors of chicken factory
farming on the map.
And this really got me thinking,
what other unlikely alliances
are out there?
Who else am I not
sitting down with,
that I should be sitting down
with to really understand
the problem?
And this led me to talk to an
even bigger so-called enemy.
And that was Jim
Perdue himself, who
had been the villain
of my viral video.
Two years later, I got
a call from Perdue,
and they were
interested in talking.
I had been writing them.
They had been
stonewalling me, and they
decided it's time to talk.
We see some truth in
what you're saying.
And after a year of
talking and trying
to understand the problem, they
put out the first animal care
policy of any large poultry
company in the United States.
And through these really
difficult conversations, once
again, and putting myself into
this uncomfortable situation
of sitting down with
someone I thought I knew,
I thought was the
enemy, they agreed
to do some things that we had
criticized them in the video
for not doing, like putting
windows in those warehouses.
And paying for them, not making
the farmers pay for them,
but paying for them themselves.
And through these
conversations, I
began to realize
there's a lot of lessons
that I can pull from
these conversations.
And that one, in
particular, taught me
that we have to be comfortable
with being uncomfortable.
That only talking to
people who agree with us
is not going to help
us get to the solution.
We have to push ourselves
into that discomfort zone.
And after all, these companies
who are your enemy often
hold the power to
solve the problem.
And in this instance, I'm not
in charge of a single chicken.
Perdue is, the factory
farmers are, not me.
So if I wanted to
solve the problem,
I had to sit down
with them to try
to understand what's
going on, to see
what their obstacles are,
try to break them down.
Try to build
solutions with them,
rather than just screaming
from the outside about what
they're doing wrong.
Another lesson I learned
doing this kind of work,
the second lesson, is that
as advocates, we are often
very married to
being principled,
and we really like being right.
And it's coming from a
moral place, moral value.
And so, what we often miss is
that the person we're sitting
down with is a human being.
And quite often,
that human being
has a lot more in common with
us than we would like to admit.
And I'll give you an example.
So, I was invited to meet at
one of the headquarters of one
of the largest chicken
companies in the United States.
And it was the first time they
had ever invited an advocate
to come to their headquarters
and really talk to them.
So my co-worker, Rachel
Dreskin, and I, we went in.
We signed in, and
literally there
were people looking
over the cubicles at us
and hiding because they wanted
to see what we looked like.
I don't know what
they thought we'd--
I looked like.
I looked like this.
It's not--
[LAUGHTER]
I look like them.
I think they were thinking
lots of piercings and tattoos,
and weapons, maybe.
I'm not sure.
And as we walked in
the conference room,
there was the main executive
in charge of the chickens,
and he was sitting there.
His arms were crossed and
he was looking at me like,
don't care, don't like you.
And I was nervous.
I probably didn't
exude a welcoming kind
of feeling either.
I was fumbling with my
laptop, and I pulled it up.
And as I did, the background
of my laptop came up,
and it was a picture of my kids.
And my daughter clearly looks
different than my two sons.
And as I did this,
he unfolded his arms,
and he tilted his head, and he
leaned forward, and he said,
are those your kids?
And I said, yeah.
Yeah, I just got back
from adopting my daughter.
I'd only been back a month, and
I was overwhelmed and feeling
very emotional, so I
really babbled on way
too much for a
professional meeting,
and started talking about this.
And he said, oh,
well, I have two kids
that are adopted from China.
And we started talking about
the ups and downs of that,
and raising kids for 20 minutes.
And we totally forgot why
we were at this table.
And I can tell you, in those
moments the walls came down.
A bridge was built,
and we crossed a divide
as two human beings.
And that company was able
to make more progress,
I truly believe,
because the trust was
built in those moments.
Because we recognized the
humanity in each other.
The last lesson that I wanted
to share with you from my work
is that we have to
look for the win-win
when we sit down with the enemy.
So, instead of thinking--
when I work with
people like Craig,
or any type of factory farmer--
instead of thinking, I want
to put you out of business.
I want to take away your income.
I'm now trying to
think, how can I
help them evolve into a
different type of farming,
like mushrooms, or hemp?
And a farmer I later worked
with did exactly that.
So, Mike Weaver of West
Virginia worked with me
on a very similar film.
We exposed the
cruelty and disease
that was happening
at Pilgrim's Pride,
and we came out with the film.
It was in The New York Times.
And he went beyond that, though.
Not only did he quit
chicken factory farming,
he decided to do something else.
As it turns out,
chicken warehouses
are very useful
for something else.
They require the same
climate control as hemp.
That's hemp.
It's an environmentally
friendly way
to stay on the land,
which is the reason
a lot of these farmers want
to stay in rural America,
and it's a win-win.
It's the win-win
that someone like me
as an activist, and
user of CBD oil,
and a factory farmer
can get behind.
And these are the kinds of
solutions we need to look for,
these win-wins.
So now instead of thinking, how
can I put the meat industry out
of business?
I'm trying to think,
how can I help
them evolve into a
different kind of business?
What do businesses care about?
That's how you have
to come to the table.
They care about
their shareholders,
they care about paying their
employees, their brand,
growing their business,
meeting demands.
OK, so when you sit down
with a meat company,
how can we try to
constructively have
them evolve into a
different kind of business?
And it turns out, companies
that are mainly meat companies
are starting to shift
in that direction.
I have to pinch myself about
this point, but it's happening.
So, companies like Tyson,
Cargill, and Purdue
are moving in this direction.
They are announcing they're
exploring plant based protein,
and incorporating it into
their business model.
Jim Perdue made a statement
that said that, "Our business
model is to provide premium
protein for the world,
and nothing in that says it
has to come from animals."
That's crazy, and
it's wonderful,
and it's the win-win
that we're looking for.
And KFC is testing out
plant based chicken nuggets.
I went to the opening of this.
It opened at 10:00 in the
morning, and me and the team
were there at 10:00 sharp.
And by the time I got there,
you would think they were giving
out Beyoncé tickets for free
because the lines were wrapped
around the entire building.
There was traffic stopped
in all directions.
It was mayhem.
People are really
ready for the shift,
and companies are
following that demand.
It's a very exciting
time to be alive.
So, my message to
you really is, as we
go out and try to
change the world,
and make it a better
place, we really
need to build a tent
that is big enough,
that is wide enough, for
everyone, whether you
be an animal rights activist, a
factory farmer, or the chicken
companies, to be under.
And frankly, these lessons
apply big and small,
whether you're talking
about sitting down
with an ex, a neighbor, a
really annoying mother-in-law.
I have a nice
mother-in-law because I
know this is being recorded.
I really do.
Or really difficult
causes of oppression
and exploitation, like factory
farming, climate change,
or racism, or misogyny.
We will not win by
beating down our enemies.
We'll only win by
finding the win-win,
and forging paths together.
And the real lesson
is that we have
to stop thinking about solving
these problems with an "us
versus them" mentality, but
realizing it's just one us.
And a system that is unjust
that's hurting all of us,
and we have to
solve it together.
And I really think that it's
very difficult to do this work.
I'm not pretending it's easy.
It's messy.
It's uncomfortable.
It's difficult. But I
really feel it's critical,
and it might be the only way to
get to the compassionate food
system, maybe world,
that we all deserve.
CHRIS GREEN: All right, we've
got some time for questions.
We're recording the
event, so please
wait till I get to you
the microphone before you
ask your question.
AUDIENCE: I get the
idea, and I understand
what you're saying about
making a social connection
with potential adversaries.
But in the example
that you just showed,
the farmer was distressed and
he was not making the profit
that he wanted.
And you could
certainly show to him
that maybe making a more
humane environment with windows
is going to keep his population
of chickens healthier,
and therefore would help
him in the bottom line.
The question is
though, how do you
impact a market or a
business like that,
that is doing very well
and has high profits?
And the example you
gave about Perdue
going to plant based is
simply based on the market
is changing.
In other words, if everybody
still was wanting chicken,
they would not be necessarily
making the change.
So my question to
you is, how do you
work with industries
that are doing very well,
and don't really see
the need to change?
LEAH GARCÉS: Very good question,
and it's something we think
about as campaigners and
advocates all the time.
So, the simple answer
is that we make
the part that is
unjust not do well,
and we do that by exposing
it for what it is.
Their biggest Achilles' heel
is their brand and their PR.
And poor animal
welfare, cruelty,
which we show through undercover
investigations or the film
that I put out, it exposes
them and is negative PR.
And they want to fix
that because that
affects their brand.
It affects why
consumers come to them.
So when we did
that viral video, I
have no doubt in my mind that
combined-- so Mercy for Animals
did two undercover
investigations on Perdue
during that year as well, as
did Compassion Over Killing.
So there were multiple
hits on their PR
that brought them to the table.
And this causes them
damage, and it makes
them realize there's a problem.
So exposing the
problem in a big--
I mean, the PR work is
very, very important.
The other part of animal welfare
that is effective and important
is that it raises
the prices of meat.
So when we add windows,
and more space,
and breeds that grow slower,
it means it's not as efficient,
and it means chicken
will cost more.
And the basic laws of economics
are that when price goes up,
demand goes down.
And we see this happening
in the market all the time.
So our job as advocates, by
putting welfare measures in,
partially, is to
raise the prices.
To make it really cost
what it should cost,
and then at the
same time come in
with a really
awesome alternative,
like the plant based
chicken nuggets.
And have that be cheaper,
as good, as available,
as convenient.
And eventually, hopefully,
offset and drive consumers
to that better option.
Does that makes sense?
Yeah.
AUDIENCE: Thank you so
much for your presentation.
How do you advise people who
are working full time, not
at an animal welfare
organization, who
want to help animals?
What's the most
strategic way for people
working full time
to help animals?
LEAH GARCÉS: So there's
a great website called
mercyforanimals.org donate.
[LAUGHTER]
That's a great
place, just saying.
Well, I do think that there's
different ways you can help.
You can donate, help
organizations like ours.
You can also sign up to any of
the organization's activists
site, so The Humane
League, Mercy for Animals.
We have something
called Hen Heroes,
and you can sign up to that.
And we will corral your interest
into targeting a company,
and then put pressure on
that company to make changes.
We have a big campaign
running against MOD Pizza
right now to get them
to change their policy,
so if you join our
hen heroes, we'll
send you actions that
you can do either
through social media, or email,
or any other-- or phoning.
And we'll point you
in the right direction
to join our efforts to bring
certain companies into line.
So that's one way, and
most organizations do.
Did you follow up?
AUDIENCE: Follow up.
So is leafletting
also an effective way?
LEAH GARCÉS: I don't believe
in this day and age of digital
that leafleting is
an effective way,
and we have really scaled back.
We don't really do leafleting.
A lot of our work is digital.
It's faster, it's cheaper.
But you should look up--
Animal Charity Evaluators
has some reviews
of the effectiveness
of leafleting,
and you can find
out for yourself.
And just google effectiveness
of leafleting animal rights,
and you can find out the
effectiveness of that.
AUDIENCE: Hi.
Thanks again for coming.
This was really,
really, interesting.
I am curious from sort of
a strategic perspective,
as an advocate.
I mean, how comfortable
are you, and do you
have concerns
about adopting what
seems like a posture that's very
conciliatory with the industry
that I think a lot a
lot of us would agree,
and I think you would agree,
is sort of part of the problem.
Because I could see
sort of from one angle,
there do seem to have been
some very tangible gains that
have come out of this.
And those are exciting,
but I could also
see a contrary perspective.
And I mean this with
all due respect,
that would be that they've--
LEAH GARCÉS: -- Don't worry.
I've heard it before.
[LAUGHTER]
AUDIENCE: --that
they've successfully
co-opted a much harsher critique
with what could be described
as fairly token measures.
LEAH GARCÉS: Yeah, yeah.
Yeah, I've heard it before.
There's been Facebook campaigns
against this kind of work.
And my answer-- so usually I use
an analogy to talk about when
welfare work is described as
conciliatory, or marginally
better, right?
And it's just a
PR move by Purdue.
So the analogy I
use is, imagine you
are a prisoner on death row,
and you're in a horrific prison.
And would you prefer
someone just work
on ending your death
sentence, or would you
like them to work on both?
Improving the welfare--
you're looking at me like,
no I have I have a
response to that.
AUDIENCE: I, as the
death row inmate would,
but I think if we're taking
a systemic perspective,
the answer might be different.
And there might be short
term costs we'd bear.
LEAH GARCÉS: Right.
So, I morally do not
think we should just
abandon the 80
billion animals that
are trapped in the system
for the foreseeable future.
And that's why Mercy for
Animals' mission is to do both.
So we are working both on
ending the exploitation,
ending the death sentence,
and reducing the suffering.
So for me, we make a
lot of calculations.
Does this reduce suffering?
So for me, part of
my personal mission
is to reduce suffering
on the planet,
and I look at everything
through that lens.
Does this reduce suffering?
And I have walked into those
houses without the windows,
and more crowded
versus the other ones.
Absolutely, and scientifically,
not just my opinion,
it reduces suffering
of those animals.
So, that matters.
That matter to those
animals times 80 billion.
So we have to do both,
and it's hard to.
You have to check your ego
about that, and be like,
I believe in ending it.
I will not take
part in this system.
It's a principle I've
taken, a stance I've
taken, that Mercy for
Animals is taking,
that a lot of social
justice advocates
have taken throughout history.
And they have been
criticized, but I
think the historical path is,
even if you look at Gandhi
or Martin Luther King, they all
took these approaches as they
move forward.
One thing that someone
said to me recently
that's a really good
phrase is, empathy
doesn't mean endorsement.
So when I go to sit down
with these companies,
they know who I am.
They know our goal is to end the
factory farm, industrial animal
agriculture altogether.
They know that.
We don't let up on that
point, but we're also
trying to move the needle.
And staying stuck
in the principle of,
it's black and white,
it's all or nothing,
doesn't help the 80 billion
animals that are trapped.
AUDIENCE: Thank you.
LEAH GARCÉS: Good question.
CHRIS GREEN: Another
example of that
is Thurgood Marshall would talk
about Plessy v. Ferguson being
as flawed as it was.
While working to
overturn it, they still
were able to use
Plessy as a huge club
to go in and make sure things
were at least equal while they
were still hoping for and
working on Brown to overturn
it.
So you can do both
at the same time,
but another question here.
AUDIENCE: With
reference to the cost,
I agree with your statement.
I come from India, where
more than 70% to 80%
of Hindus and Buddhists,
they do eat meat.
Even though their
religion says not to.
But still, they eat.
But they may eat
just once a week,
or even once a month
because of the cost.
When compared to meat,
vegetables are less expensive.
So that is a
supporting statement--
LEAH GARCÉS: Thank you.
AUDIENCE: --of your talk.
And secondly,
about-- you may also
include about health benefits.
You know, what happened
to Bill Clinton recently.
[INAUDIBLE] be a
vegetarian or a vegan.
LEAH GARCÉS: Yeah, we could give
a whole lecture on the health
benefits of plant based eating,
which sometimes resonates with
people.
And sometimes they're like,
I like my fried chicken.
Go away.
AUDIENCE: Hi.
Thanks for coming.
I have been a fan of Mercy
for Animals for a long time.
I check the website every
week, so I'm very supportive.
I--
LEAH GARCÉS: Did
you ever donate?
[INAUDIBLE]
[LAUGHTER]
Just joking.
AUDIENCE: That's for
after law school.
LEAH GARCÉS: OK.
AUDIENCE: I am wondering what
you make of the argument put
forth by some people who might
endorse the type of mentality
that Fred was gesturing to.
Not endorsing himself,
but gesturing to.
LEAH GARCÉS: Who's Fred?
Are you Fred?
AUDIENCE: Yeah.
LEAH GARCÉS: Hi, Fred.
I've got your name
now, that's good.
AUDIENCE: So, it's been said
that the welfare reforms can
drive up the price,
but they can also
drive down veterinary costs.
Such that it ends up
being awash, basically.
And there are
others who have said
that if you invest in
the welfare reforms,
you make people who
would otherwise go vegan
feel more comfortable consuming
animal products because they
think that the practices
are sufficiently humane.
I'm just wondering
what you make of that.
LEAH GARCÉS: So, again, there's
been some research on this.
I don't have it
on hand, but there
hasn't been any true evidence
about that latter point
about raising welfare
makes people feel better.
There isn't any actual
research or evidence
that's been on that.
So I've really looked into it.
It's been a big concern
of animal rights advocates
for a while.
The main thing that drives
people to eat meat in the form
that it is, is price.
Price point is-- there's
a James McWilliams put out
a really good paper.
He's at University
of Texas, I think.
Does anybody know?
AUDIENCE: Yeah.
LEAH GARCÉS: Texas?
Yeah.
Just saying, it doesn't
matter about anything we do.
The only thing that
matters is price.
As long as meat continues
to be really cheap,
that's what people will do
and buy for the majority.
Many of us in this room
might have the privilege,
either from whatever
point of view,
to think through where our
protein is coming through
and make those choices.
But most people are
running around going
to the supermarket, picking
it off the shelf like,
what's cheapest?
What fits my budget?
Go, go, go.
Right?
And if something
else is there that
is made out of plants
instead of animals,
I don't think they're
going to care.
Economics seems to be the main
driving principle for most.
I don't know if that--
I forget if that really
answers your question.
OK.
CHRIS GREEN: Got a
question back there.
But one thing to point out,
too, is that this price
is artificially low.
Because of not only
loans and subsidies
to build out the
facilities themselves,
but also to grow the feed
that goes into the animals.
There's a whole
range of subsidies
that are making it unfair.
LEAH GARCÉS: Yeah, one of main
drivers of cheap chicken is
cheap soy and subsidized soy.
So we followed
the prices of soy,
and it directly impacts
the price of chicken.
It's the most it's the biggest
factor that-- and I'm sure
there's more people that are
ag economists that know more
about this than me,
but it's a huge factor.
And people often say, why
don't we change the subsidies?
We have tried.
The Obama administration
tried, and they failed.
It's not an easy
thing to tackle,
so this is our best effort.
Hi.
AUDIENCE: Hello.
So, thanks for this
super inspiring talk.
I can confirm, I've been
working on social movement
theory for years, and
everything that you've
said about coalition
building and stuff
like that just
proves itself time
after time in lots of things.
But what I'm curious about
is a lot of the solutions
that you worked
with the farmers on
are unique to the
chicken industry, just
the conditions for chicken,
and hemp, and what have you.
Do we have a model for
doing the exact same move,
for example for the
cattle industry?
Can this work for other
aspects of animal ethics?
LEAH GARCÉS: Yeah, I can't say
that I'm an expert in the other
areas.
The only place I've
started to explore
this is in the dairy
industry, where I do
think it could apply.
And I'm working with a
particularly large company that
does mostly dairy in Vermont.
Can you guess which one that is?
And if you've read
the newspaper lately,
or you're into these
issues, you can
see that suicide rates for
dairy farmers in Wisconsin
are at an all time high.
The prices have dropped out.
They don't know what to do.
And they're starting to
grow hemp, some of them.
And that, I think, is
another application
that we could play
with, and we're not.
And I will tell you that
Mercy for Animals on Monday
is launching a new project
called Transfarmation.
Get it?
[LAUGHTER]
Like that?
Very excited, so check it out.
We're doing an exclusive
with The Atlantic,
and it will be about
helping farmers transition.
It will focus on
chicken farmers,
but other farmers will
be explored as well.
And I think dairy is really
ripe for that, as well.
I don't know about-- the cattle
industry's tough, really tough.
It's a different
makeup, but you know--
CHRIS GREEN: And what is the
breakdown between the numbers,
say like the 9
billion in the US?
What percentage are chicken?
LEAH GARCÉS: Right,
we focus on chickens.
And I have, in my career,
focused on chickens
because 90% of all factory
farmed animals are chickens.
And I don't mean laying hens,
I mean the chickens that end up
being eaten for their meat.
So, when you talk about
animal agriculture,
you're basically talking
about chicken farming.
And that's globally, in terms of
individual numbers of animals.
Not poundage of meat,
but individual numbers.
It's 9 billion, in this
country, of the 10 billion
are just meat chickens.
AUDIENCE: I don't know
how to word this exactly.
You touched on the cost.
I guess I'm trying to say, is it
not possible in the big picture
for plant based foods to be less
expensive than animal foods?
And I sometimes
think, wouldn't it
be better for
McDonald's to give out,
if it was large scale production
of plant based veggie burgers,
wouldn't it be cheaper?
It just seems like raising these
farmed animals is not cheap,
no matter what they do.
Isn't it possible that plant
based food would be cheaper?
I guess that's--
LEAH GARCÉS: Yeah, I
believe in principle, it is.
And I'm not the only
one who believes it.
There are economic models
that say as we scale up,
the price will come down.
So right now, it's such a small
volume that's being produced.
So the costs are quite high
of the Impossible Burger
and the Beyond Meat Burgers.
But as we get the
equipment-- the bottleneck
right now in that
industry is around
manufacturing-- so the
big equipment required to,
en mass on volume,
produce these products,
is we don't have it yet.
So there's huge investment
going into that,
and it's scaling up really fast.
So I do think over time,
the price will come down.
And we haven't talked
about this, but lab meat,
or I forget what the term--
there's a new term every week,
but I think it's called now--
CHRIS GREEN: Cultivated?
LEAH GARCÉS: --cultivated!
Thank you.
Yeah, there's a new--
cultivated.
It was clean, now
it's cultivated meat.
So use that word,
and that word only.
Cultivated meat,
which is where you
take a cell from an animal
and you grow it in a lab,
in a brewery kind of scenario.
That, I think,
has the potential,
if we crack the nutrient
base feeding those cells,
to be very cheap.
You just use one cell in
a nutrient base, and boom,
you're done.
None of the inputs required of
a slaughterhouse, and factory
farm, and all of that.
So in principle,
I think it's just
going to take time for the
manufacturing to expand,
and the prices will come down.
CHRIS GREEN: Any other
question for Leah?
Oh, here we go.
LEAH GARCÉS: Hi, Jim.
AUDIENCE: Hi, Leah.
If you could take the
Leah Garcés crystal ball,
and look maybe when
your kids are your age,
combination of optimism and
realism dealing with the Jim
Perdues of the world.
How do you think the
animal food chain
consumer market will look?
LEAH GARCÉS: So, if
you read my book,
the epilogue is my
optimistic vision.
So, my epilogue in
my book, if you just
want to skip right to
there and feel really good,
is me imagining it's 30 years
since my book's been published.
And I imagine my
kids are grown up,
and they have their
own kids, and they're
doing their digital shopping.
And when they go into the
aisle, the digital aisles,
there's clean meat
bluefin tuna on the shelf,
and some plant based nuggets.
And there's a little bit of
maybe restorative generate--
We haven't talked about this,
but regenerative, sorry,
regenerative agriculture
on the shelf,
which is another type
of farming where you--
that's in the book, too.
You can read that there.
So, in my vision in
30 years from now,
there's clean meat and plant
based on 90% of the shelf.
And Mercy for Animals
is having a big party,
and we're shutting down.
And so are all the
animal rights groups,
and we've all gone to work
in plant based technology,
or clean meat technology.
And we're really rich
because we got in early,
and we got all those IPOs,
and made a ton of money
because we knew what
was up early on.
So, that is my optimistic
vision of the world.
And part of that vision
is also that the world
starts to restore itself, like
the bees and butterflies we
thought were extinct come
back from the mountains.
And wild flowers are back, and
we restore the countryside.
And I think the pressures
on our environment
are going to drive us there.
It's like the crisis
we're in, ecologically,
is going to force this,
and it already is.
The conversations that
we're having today
were not the ones we
were having five years
ago about animal ag as a
key problem in this crisis
we're in, and you hear that now.
We didn't hear that.
That wasn't common
knowledge, but it is now.
So I feel maybe that's
my optimistic view
for 30 years from now.
AUDIENCE: First off, thank you
for your words, your wisdom,
and your advocacy.
I do have a question.
I was listening
with great interest
about your idea of raising
the prices to lower demand.
We've seen this movie before
in other realms, where
what seems to happen
is our problems
get sent to other countries
with fewer rules and lower
standards.
And I'm curious whether you've
looked at that because I
know that's happening already.
We're ending up with pigs, and
salmon, and so on, from Asia.
LEAH GARCÉS: No,
very, very good point.
So, Mercy for Animals,
we are working globally.
So we have offices in India,
Hong Kong, Brazil, Mexico,
along with the United
States and Canada.
So this is not just a--
I'm not saying this from
a US perspective only.
I'm saying it's from
a global perspective,
so the principles I'm saying
today apply everywhere.
I'm assuming some of you are law
students in here, just a guess.
One important idea is that as
countries raise the standards,
that they do not permit
the import of products
that do not hold that standard.
So for example, Prop 12
in California is saying,
not only are we banning
cages and crates,
but we're also banning the
sale of those products.
And time will tell
whether this holds
because right now the
North American Meat
institute is suing California
for this, but we think it will.
And it's important not just to--
we can't allow the flood
of products that don't meet
the standards into the country.
We also have to work in every
country to get this standard.
And in my book, as well, in
the end and the epilogue,
I also talk about a UN--
Similar to our actions around
climate change at the UN level,
we have to have a
global approach to this
and recognize the impact
it's having globally.
It's not good enough to--
And this has been going
on for quite a long time.
The Food and
Agriculture Organization
put out a paper in early 2000
called Livestock's Long Shadow.
And it talked about this exact
principle of all of factory
farming is going to be
moving into Brazil and China,
and it has.
20 years later, it has.
It's sad to see these
things actually happen.
And we can't just attack the
problem from one country.
It has to be a global
effort, for sure.
So, good, good point.
CHRIS GREEN: Any other
questions for Leah?
All right.
Well, please again join me
in thanking Mercy for Animals
president, Leah Garcés for
spending some time with us.
Thank you.
LEAH GARCÉS: Thank you.
