- Hi it's Gabby,
I'm here in the Test Kitchen
today to have a secret
conversation about Chris Morocco.
Once again,
we're going to put Chris
super-taster abilities to the test.
This is Bobby Flay's mac
and cheese Carbonara.
We're challenging Chris
to replicate this dish
with all the ingredients in just two days.
He will be able to smell it,
touch it and taste it,
but at no point he will be able to see it.
So at the end of the second day,
I'll come back and I'll be the judge.
[intense music]
- [Chris Morocco] Oh God.
Is this some weird like
Phantom of the Opera [bleep]?
It can't be something that's
gonna freak out my kids,
okay?
I can certainly smell it.
[sniff]
It smells intensely cheesy,
like sharp cheeses,
mac and cheese,
like in that world.
It's reminiscent of bacon,
but there's something so firm and so dense
and so salty about it.
And also quite porky.
There's a lot of it kind of
dotted around on the top here.
I'm thinking it has to
be a cured pork product,
something in the realm of like Guanciale.
There's also kind of a
layer of very assertively
flavored cheese.
Seems to be little bits of pasta.
Little elbows here.
We then have a bechamel based sauce.
You know maybe started
with a base of butter,
flour,
a roux,
that's then cooked out and with milk,
or some combination of
dairy products added.
I feel like there's gotta
be some Pecorino in here,
there's just so much
kind of umami and sort of
peppery bite to it.
One possibility I'm thinking through,
that there could be egg in this as well,
and that this is some kind of
like riff on pasta carbonara.
There could also be a softer,
more meltable cheese like Fontina in here,
something that's sharp.
The cheese that's on the top of this,
I don't know,
dairy is my downfall.
I'm not guaranteeing you Fontina,
nor am I frankly guaranteeing
you Parm for that matter.
- [Man Off Camera] Can you live with that?
- [Chris Morocco] Yeah
I can live with that.
Make the graphics go away.
I would call this
Carbonara Mac and Cheese,
and I would say its,
no idea.
I mean I feel like I know
what's happening here.
I feel like that's the dangerous
situation to be in though.
Main elements are elbows,
I would be slightly surprised
to see Guanciale there,
black pepper,
gonna go in hard with a bechamel,
butter, flour, dairy,
and I would be temped to
try just all heavy cream,
Pecorino, Parm,
I'm gonna look for a couple
other options like a Fontina.
Wow this pen is just
really letting me down now.
[sighs]
Another cheese like Asiago,
then egg yolk.
So I've got my list,
seems deceptively simple.
Could be good,
could be bad.
Gonna head to the supermarket.
[intense music]
We've got a lot of
important decisions to make
about dairy here.
Its probably one of my
least favorite things to do.
Oh God.
Oh God.
There's literally so much
cheese in this supermarket,
this is terrible.
Just when you think your
done with the cheese section,
it continues.
What's Danish Fontina?
Asiago,
everybody's heard of it,
nobody knows what it is.
I'm gonna get a couple chunks of Pecorino.
We're gonna get some Parm as well.
Do you guys sell Guanciale?
- [Butcher] Yes we do but
we're out of it at the moment.
- Ah interesting.
Its probably all back
in the test kitchen no?
You guys probably bought it all.
In that case,
just a big chunk of Pancetta.
You think you're so [bleep] slick,
all of you.
I forgot to brush my teeth this morning,
so this is gonna be my office toothbrush,
Dan said he'd buy it for me.
I don't have time to go
to the drugstore later.
Alright we got eyes on cream.
Eggs, butter, pasta.
Oh for [bleep] sake!
We're on a tight timeframe,
you really wanna say something?
Just like literally sitting there,
watching me be a jack [bleep].
Alright just got back
from the supermarket.
I'm gonna start making
some blender cheeses.
So here is our Pecorino,
the classic cheese used in
a traditional Carbonara.
Next cheese is Parmesan.
Danish Fontina.
Feel like there's better things that have
come out of Denmark.
This is Fontina Val D'Aosta.
This is richer,
its nuttier,
it's like a higher quality Fontina.
And then we're gonna crack
the code on this here,
Asiago.
I'm calling bull [bleep] on Asiago.
So I don't know,
here we got our Pecorino,
textbook Carbonara.
And you got the Parm
which is like so rich,
so nutty,
and then the Fontina
maybe to round it out.
Lets see how wrong could we be.
So I'm gonna start with the Bechamel base,
butter, flour.
This is a cup and a half of heavy cream.
I feel like the pasta
was cooked not even like
two minutes shy of al dente.
I just need to thin this out a little bit.
I'm throwing in a half a cup of milk.
Here's our Pecorino.
So this is Parmesan.
This is Fontina,
the one that we liked,
throwing in about a quarter cup.
Some salt.
We can start to see it
get that kind of ropiness,
that stretchiness.
This is at four minutes.
I am gonna run this under some cold water
just to stop the cooking.
You know what we actually
need to be doing?
Is cooking some Guanciale.
This is Pancetta,
but it's an unsmoked,
cured pork belly.
Doesn't particularly feel
like the right texture here.
So this is Guanciale.
Piggy.
Guanciale just has way more personality.
Absolutely leaning towards
the Guanciale there.
Gonna cook these off side-by-side.
So you see the amount of fat
that came off that Guanciale?
It seems a little bit
weird not to use this fat,
but then again I just
don't know that we need it.
I know this will be like one
of those things where like
"oh well of course you use
the fat and just dump it
right into the dish".
And then this is Pancetta.
This Pancetta doesn't taste as good,
however it is saltier.
I don't like Pancetta.
Sometimes Pancetta too,
it's like [bleep].
- [Brad Leone] Yeah yeah yeah,
unless you know where it's coming from.
- Unless you know where it came from.
- It's a sad cow.
- It's just a sad
- Factory farmed cow.
- Or pig.
- Yeah that's what I mean.
Even if you're wrong it's right Chris.
- Thank you thank you.
You know what,
I can live with that.
I've been going back and
forth but I think I'm
still sticking with Guanciale here.
So I'm just preparing my pan.
I don't know that there's
necessarily butter in it
but it's just a good
policy to add a little bit
of fat to your pan.
So I'm just folding the
pasta in with our sauce.
I'm gonna throw some
black pepper in there,
but I'm not gonna overthink it.
Fontina has a little bit of gym locker,
and I'm getting a big whiff.
The Pecorino is not helping lets be clear.
I have not yet put in our egg yolks,
I'm gonna put in a couple now.
Aww man!
I'm gonna put in two yolks
and see what happens.
Its definitely changing the color.
I'm not feeling a terrific
sense of clarity about
the cheese that goes
on the top of the dish.
I'm gonna do a combination of the two.
Parm and Pecorino.
We're just going in hard.
Why not a little bit more black pepper.
In the oven,
375 'cause why not,
and I'll see you guys in like 30 minutes.
I mean,
I think we're kind of there.
Okay we're calling it.
I do wonder if maybe we'd
bake it closer to the top
if we would've gotten a
little bit more browning.
The texture of the cheese
on top hasn't formed
those kind of like stretchy,
tendrils of cheese that I
tasted in the original dish.
This looks like mac and
cheese but with something
else going on.
And to that end that seems correct.
Like this is giving me mac and cheese,
but it's not quite delivering
perhaps on the promise of,
you know,
kinda like Carbonara mac
and cheese which is what I
believe it to be.
Lets check in on our nugs of Guanciale.
Feel good about that.
Ingredients I'll say 80 percent.
Taste,
look honestly,
I'd say we're at like 75 percent.
Technique,
I'll go back up to 85.
Appearance,
88.
So that basically
averages me out to an 82.
I've got one more chance
to try the original dish
before I really have to
make some tough decisions.
And I guess we'll just
see how it goes tomorrow.
[intense music]
We're watching the Top Gun 2 trailer,
the newer one.
Well now we're gonna flip it.
- Okay
- [Man Off Camera] But why
are you watching the trailer?
[gasp]
- Because Top Gun's probably
the greatest film of all time,
and they took an extra year
so that Tom Cruise could
learn to fly a Meg for this,
so I think maybe he
deserves our attention.
Okay we live in a world
that is so cruel that
we have to wait until
June to see that movie,
I just don't know that I can take it.
- It's okay,
it's gonna be here before you know it.
- Is it though?
- It will.
- Mic can you hear this?
[whistles]
One of the more interesting
things about this dish
is just how sharp and
distinctive the aroma is.
You get that salty, peppery, funky
cheesiness.
I feel like if it were broiled,
it would be more of a
defined top kind of crunchy
layer,
and I don't really get that right now.
And now I'm like having Guanciale doubts.
I suppose you could have like
a reasonably high quality
Pancetta.
You get such an intensity of flavor,
that it almost reads as
though it were kind of like a
red chili pepper.
In Bechamel,
often I'll put like a
pinch of Cayenne in there.
- I like the mask.
- Thank you.
Hold that thought,
but I think I just got a
piece of parsley that was
buried down in the dish itself.
It just isn't following
the Carbonara rules.
Could there be some like
cheddar or something
that's just kind of like
a little bit milder,
but kind of nutty and
still with the sharpness.
Yeah I don't know.
- [Man Off Camera] There's
a big piece of something
on your middle finger.
- This one Dan?
[laughter]
- Oh my God!
- So I've got version two
about to come right up here.
- Do Guan stick to the gut!
- I'm doing it for you Brad!
So just a tiny bit of olive oil,
just to get the Guanciale started.
While the Guanciale is cooking,
I'm gonna work on my sauce here.
Now we got our butter.
So we're gonna go down to
one tablespoon of flour.
Its got a little too
much thickness yesterday.
So heavy cream's going in,
I'm gonna go with a little bit more today.
Using a little bit of milk
to thin out the sauce.
I said yesterday I wanted more Pecorino,
and I'm putting in more Pecorino.
Parmesan.
Using just a touch less than yesterday.
Getting there.
Salt.
I'm gonna put in a pinch
of Cayenne and I'm gonna
give a generous amount of black pepper.
The cheddar honestly
I could go either way,
I feel like it's fifty-fifty.
So imagine you have
Carbonara mac and cheese,
but some genius has put parsley in it.
- Why? Why?
- So clearly they're not
playing by the Carbonara rules.
- No
- Who's rules are they playing by?
Do you add cheddar,
just for the sake of it?
For the sake of maybe if we're in
the world of mac and cheese
- I mean maybe
[groans]
- Okay this is a tricky one.
Right now I'm saying no.
No Fontina no cheddar.
Alright pasta goes in for about
four and a half minutes here
I'm gonna stir it around,
I'm gonna taste it,
season it.
I feel like we still need more Pecorino.
Carbonara and parsley are
two very different things.
Mac and cheese and parsley
are two very different things.
I just don't think you need it,
I don't think you want it,
and yet here we are.
This time I'm doing three
yolks instead of two.
Definitely noticing some more sauciness.
I'm gonna push some down in.
So for the cheese on top,
really like honestly,
I've got nothing here.
This is some Pecorino and I
think I'm gonna do a little
Parm as well.
So this is gonna go in a 325 oven.
Its been 20 minutes,
we're getting some gentle bubbling.
This is it version two.
I feel like we got like a
good blend of saucy creamy.
I feel like I just want a
little bit more from the cheese.
Call it cheddar regret,
call it the ghost of what might've been.
I like the pepperiness,
I like the heat.
I think that Cayenne
helped us kind of bring
everything together and amplify all the
elements we have here.
It tastes good.
It almost tastes like too good.
There's still a little bit of a gap,
you know,
between this dish and the original dish,
but I'm just not sure how to
account for the difference.
For ingredients I'd
say I'm at maybe an 80.
Taste I think we went from 75 to an 82.
85.
Technique I'm going back down to an 81.
Something about the texture
on top that's bugging me.
I still feel good about appearance,
holding firm at 88.
We're gonna call that an 84 overall.
I have one more chance to
get this right before I serve
it to Gabby.
[evil laughter]
Last chance coming right up.
I'm still feeling good about Guanciale.
Now we've got our butter going in.
Start our base of a sauce.
Gonna go with a mix of cream and milk,
I just want a balance the
fact that the cheddar's
gonna make it a little bit tighter.
So I've got half cup of Pecorino.
Reggiano Parmesano.
Lets talk about cheddar.
So here we have two cheddar options.
Maybe I'll throw little bits in there.
This ones a little bit milder.
So ins gonna come the cheddar.
Once this goes in,
can't come back.
You can't unring the bell.
What?
So the cheeses are in there,
the flavor has not come out yet.
'Cause nothing is seasoned.
So we need to kick this up a notch.
Sorry Emeral.
where's my [bleep] pepper mill?
Remember that video where
he's just walking around
the office,
sprinkling salt on people.
That was the best thing we've ever done.
- That was a good one.
- That was so good.
- Oh my God he was going
around baming people.
- Bam! Bam!
- Damn that was a good
one I forgot about that.
- Bam!
- So I've got salt.
- Bam!
- Black pepper
- Bam!
- Cayenne pepper
- Shabam!
- In the immortal words of Tupac,
"Only God can judge me."
just don't tell Gabby how
many yolks I put in okay,
can we just leave it at that?
Some of our Guanciale.
So I ended up going with a
blend of Parm and Pecorino
on the top.
It's bubbling all the way through.
Still wish I had a little
bit more color on it,
but I don't know,
we'll see what happens when
we get inside this thing.
But that's it,
version three,
done.
In the bag.
- [Man Off Camera] If you had
to guess who made this recipe
- Tom Cruise?
[laughter]
- Hi Chris!
- Here we go.
- How do you feel?
- I feel okay.
- Just okay?
- Yeah just okay.
- I want to present you,
Bobby Flays Mac and Cheese Carbonara.
- [bleep] Bobby!
[bleep] he does have some
melty cheese bull [bleep]
on top.
Is that Pancetta?
- Yes.
- Bobby's not following the rules here.
- Yes it's a little bit out
there I have to be saying
I read it and I was like "what?"
- I'm also just struck
by like how blonde it is.
- [Gabby] Yes you have more color.
I mean looking at the top,
you're being more generous with the bacon
or whatever situation.
- I used Guanciale.
I went back and forth
- [Man Off Camera] Its
rutabaga all over again.
[laughter]
- Its not rutabaga all over again.
That is not what this is.
- Why not taste Bobby Flay's first.
- [Chris] Okay.
- [Gabby] Just to refresh your memory.
- Is there garlic in here?
- [Gabby] He adds garlic into the fat.
- Into the fat,
and is he using the fat from the Pancetta?
- [Gabby] Yes.
- Y'know I questioned it,
I just felt like it was overkill,
and I was concerned about
adding too much fat to
this mixture.
- Right.
Alright.
I really like yours better.
I'm not saying because you are here,
but how many cheeses you add in there?
- I have Pecorino, Parmesan
and I ended up going
with a mild cheddar.
- He also had a second cheddar and Asiago.
And no Pecorino.
- No Pecorino?
[bleep]
I'm sorry that's not a [bleep] Carbonara.
[bleep]
Yeah I think I just sort
of locked in the Carbonara
paradigm a little bit too much,
and tried to interpret it
a little too literally.
I can live with the wrong dairy,
the blend of cheeses.
But just like missing the overall balance,
that's what kinda dogs me.
- Alright for ingredients
I'm gonna give you 86.
- Okay.
- Happy with that?
- After I cry for a few
minutes in the walk-in,
I'll be all right.
- For technique I wanna give you a 95,
your technique is correct.
You did the right way,
you just use a different type of fat.
- Sure.
- Next one is taste.
And it has to be how
close you got to this,
no how good this is.
- Its okay you don't have to butter me up.
- I know but I want to,
you know the extra fat,
here.
For taste I'm going to give you a 78.
- Okay.
- You get that sharpness but
from the wrong ingredient.
- Appearance.
You're a far cry from this one,
but I love yours.
You're missing the parsley.
- Its inside.
- Its inside.
All right 82.
- Okay can live with it.
- You got a total of 85.
- Oh okay, all right.
Thanks Gab,
appreciate it.
- Until next time.
Aw thank you.
- I feel drained,
I feel spent.
I just like,
you know the [bleep] cheeses.
I just feel like with
cheeses in a blend like this,
you're just [bleep] guessing,
and anybody who says otherwise is crazy.
Its gonna take me a little bit
to kind of recover from this.
You know,
I don't want to get a trophy everyday,
like I want to get better,
I want to learn more.
I want to fly faster than
I've ever flown before.
I'm just not gonna be
happy unless I'm going
mock 2 with my hair on fire.
And that's a [bleep] fact,
you know?
[inspirational music]
- Bam!
