AMY DACEY: Noon everybody.
I'm Amy Dacey, the
executive director
of the Sine Institute
of Policy and Politics
here at American University.
We're so excited for you
to join us this afternoon
in our Sine of the
Times summer series
as we explore issues of the
day with prominent leaders
from various communities.
And today we're
so excited to have
our discussion about
Pride as Protest,
making pride during
two pandemics.
And as we celebrate
Pride this June,
we're asking how has COVID-19,
the financial crisis,
and the rash of
racial violence we've
seen in recent weeks
affected the LGBTQ community?
At Sine, we bring
together various sectors
to talk about public
policy solutions
in a nonpartisan [AUDIO OUT]
And in addition,
we are cosponsoring
this with our AU Pride.
AU Pride is American
University's premier LGBT
student group, and we're
excited to have them with us.
They helped us with
some of the topics
that we're going to cover today,
and I know many of the members
are on with us today as well.
I am so excited and proud
to have our guest speaker
today, Alphonso David,
who is currently
the president of the
Human Rights Campaign
and doing incredible work
with that organization.
I will say that I've
always been overwhelmed
with Alphonso's long
commitment to social justice.
He's an accomplished
and nationally
recognized LGBTQ civil
rights lawyer and advocate.
He's first civil
rights lawyer and then
the first person of color to
serve as president of HRC.
But he's also had a long
history at the forefront
of the movement for
more than a decade
and worked with both the
state and national level.
He was counsel to New
York Governor Andrew Cuomo
and in his administration in
several different positions.
And we're so excited to have you
here today with us, Alphonso,
to share your thoughts about
what's happening in the world.
And certainly it's
been interesting time
since we first even discussed
having you come and talk
to our students in our
community here at AU,
so much has changed.
So I think it would be
best to really start
with your general thoughts
about what's happening,
what's happening in
the environment today,
and so many things.
And in a wonderful way, we're
having this conversation
during Pride Month, which
so much of the celebrations
and acknowledgments have had
to be virtual in these times.
So thank you for
joining us, and we're
so excited to have your
thoughts and your ideas today
about what's happening.
ALPHONSO DAVID: Thank you.
Good afternoon.
Good afternoon.
And thank you to
the Sine Institute
at American University.
And Amy, thank you for inviting
me to speak with you today.
This afternoon we're
going to talk about pride.
And when we talk
about pride, we also
must talk about protest because
pride began with protest.
We're celebrating
Pride Month this year,
and we're celebrating at a
unique moment in our history.
We have seen our nation's
highest court recognize
LGBTQ people are protected
from discrimination
under federal civil rights laws.
And we've seen the court
block Donald Trump's attack
on Dreamers.
We've seen a rash
of horrific violence
against black and
transgender communities,
and we have seen amidst a
pandemic, righteous protesters
take to the streets to make
sure that their voices are
being heard loud and clear.
To uphold the legacy of pride
and to achieve full equality,
we need to commit to joining
protesters and all those who
are fighting alongside them
to defeat discrimination,
to defeat racism, to
defeat white supremacy,
and to defeat the broken
systems that allow injustice
to flourish.
We cannot forget that Stonewall,
and the pockets of resistance
and riots that proceeded at
Cooper's Donuts and The Black
Hat and Compton's Cafeteria were
a response to police brutality.
These acts of resistance
were led, in many places,
by transgender women of color.
These early leaders
lived every day
with the threat of police
brutality and oppression,
and they refused to give up.
They refused to accept violence.
They refused to
accept oppression
as the only possible means
for them to live through.
We must recognize that their
resistance laid the groundwork
for the modern LGBTQ movement.
But we must also
recognize that today,
that the movement is
moving forward largely
without effectively answering
the cries of those who first
threw those bricks, those who
were and still are largely
targeted by police, LGBTQ
black and brown people.
It has fallen to black
and brown leaders,
and specifically trans
leaders and movement partners
to center the most
marginalized among us.
Now we have to start again.
We have to center ourselves
in a radical and fundamental
understanding that we will
not be free until all of us
are free.
Black Lives Matter leaders
have known this all along.
In their leadership,
they have accomplished
something really vital.
They have forced
non-black people
in this country to
use their voices
to fight against injustice
that black people have lived
with for a very long
time, and unfortunately,
continue to do so.
The only way that we
can make lasting change
is if we see beyond ourselves.
It has been a vital
part of the success
of the LGBTQ civil rights
movement are allies seeing
themselves in a same sex couple
fighting for equal marriage
rights, in a mother of a
transgender kid fighting
for the safety of her child,
in a bisexual teacher fired
for simply coming out.
By seeing the humanity in our
neighbors, we reaffirm our own.
This radical understanding, this
moral evolution and revolution
requires us to embrace
anti-racism and take action
to end white supremacy, not
as necessary correlations
or corollaries to our
struggle, but as integral
to the fight for full
equality for all of us.
That is what our
movement in this moment
demands of all of us.
And that is ultimately
what pride is all about.
It is about taking
pride in our actions.
It's about taking pride
in our right to vote,
a constitutional right
that we all have.
It's about taking pride in
our power to make change,
and it's about taking
pride in the victories that
are yet to come.
We have achieved so much, but
we have so much work to do.
And I'm so happy
to join you, Amy,
in having this
conversation about pride,
having this conversation
about protest, and in having
this conversation about our
respective roles in advancing
the struggle, the quest
for full equality.
AMY DACEY: I can't think
of a better overview
or insight into the world
that we're looking at.
I think you mentioned
the Supreme Court ruling.
I mean, on June 15, there was
this landmark Supreme Court
ruling.
Were you shocked?
And how important are
the courts in this?
You know, you say it
starts with protest,
but how important are
the courts in general?
And then how important
was this decision?
ALPHONSO DAVID: Well, let me
answer your second question
first because I think it
provides a little bit more,
for me, context.
Protest is so
important, but so is
exercising our
Constitutional right
to vote in order to
effectuate change.
What I'm saying is pride
plus vote equals change.
Why is voting so important?
Because when you vote
for elected officials
to represent your interests,
and they're pro-equality elected
officials, those pro-equality
elected officials
are not going to
appoint justices
to courts who will try
to erode your rights
and your protections.
Those elected
officials will actually
interpret the law in
a way that provides
equality for all of us.
So peaceful protesting
is incredibly important,
but we have to exercise
our rights to vote.
Now having said that, the
Supreme Court decision
is a landmark decision
for many reasons.
The court basically affirmed
federal court decisions
that have said for
more than 20 years
that LGBTQ people are protected
under federal civil rights
laws.
Many have challenged those laws,
arguing that LGBTQ people are
not protected.
The court rejected those
arguments and said,
we have this principle
called the rule of law,
this principle
called stare decisis.
We're respecting decisions
that have interpreted
the civil rights law, Title VII,
to be inclusive of protections
along the lines
of gender identity
and sexual orientation.
And it's a significant
decision because LGBTQ people
in many parts of this country,
and in fact, around the globe
are fearful when
they go to work.
You get married over
a weekend, and you're
fearful of taking
your wedding picture
and putting it on your desk.
You're afraid of
coming out of work.
You're afraid of disclosing
who your friends are
because you might be outed.
And so this decision
effectively provides the dignity
to LGBTQ people in the
workplace that we all deserve.
We still have a
lot of work to do,
but the judiciary, to
your earlier point,
has always served as
a significant pillar
of government that
provides protections
to marginalized communities.
And we are heartened to see
the Supreme Court decision.
Another very important decision
was the Dreamers decision
that came out last Thursday
that basically said--
AMY DACEY: It was
quite a week last week.
ALPHONSO DAVID: It
was quite a week.
AMY DACEY: It was quite a week.
ALPHONSO DAVID: But
that is a testament
to we have to believe
in the rule of law.
We have to believe
in stare decisis.
We have to believe
in the judiciary
because it has been
a place that we
go to to make sure we
can vindicate our rights.
AMY DACEY: I think it's
important to note, too,
that as you mentioned
with the vote,
we have to be ever vigilant
as well because securing
these rights, or having
legislation passed,
or protesting is one thing.
But this is something
that we have
to protect once we have it.
And sometimes that might
even be the harder fight
is to make sure that
it's not taken away
once we have some of these.
I mean, it's still
a possibility.
ALPHONSO DAVID: It's such an
important right that we have.
And in many cases, it
is being taken away.
Look at what happened in
Georgia a few weeks ago.
Look at what happened
in Wisconsin.
And for people who don't
know, please look it up,
but I'll give you
a brief preview.
In Wisconsin, polling
stations were closed
in largely minority districts.
So if you are a racial
minority and you're
going to cast your vote, and
your polling station is closed
and you have to travel to
actually cast your vote,
are you going?
And you may not have the
resources to do that.
So our right to vote is being
oppressed in so many places.
In Georgia, the absentee
ballots were not mailed in time.
They didn't have
sufficient poll workers.
They had long lines.
The machines didn't work.
Those are voter
suppression tactics
that have been used against
black and brown communities
in this country for decades.
And we have to be incredibly
vigilant to make sure
that our right to vote is
protected because there are
many forces that are trying to
muzzle us from having our votes
count.
AMY DACEY: It's
interesting, Alphonso,
because some of the things
that you mentioned--
the challenges for
voting, or access--
some of those things
are, either healthwise
or financial, sometimes
barriers, too.
So my question
is, with COVID-19,
with coronavirus, has the
pandemic disproportionately
impacted the LGBT
community in those areas,
then creating other challenges
as well, like you said,
with possible voting?
But what how has
the LGBT community
and other marginalized
populations been
disproportionately affected
by this situation we're
in with this global pandemic?
ALPHONSO DAVID: So the
coronavirus pandemic
has really
disproportionately impacted
black and brown communities,
and also the LGBTQ community.
With respect to the
LGBTQ community,
many people don't know this.
One out of five LGBTQ
people live in poverty.
One out of five LGBTQ people
have not gone to see a doctor
because they cannot
afford to see one,
meaning they don't have
access to health care.
More than 40%, 4-0,
40% of LGBTQ people
work in industries that
have been disproportionately
impacted by COVID-19, meaning
they've lost their jobs,
they've been furloughed,
or they have reduced hours.
40% of LGBTQ people are
in that sort of paradigm.
And as we think about
how COVID-19 is affecting
the community, if you
have lost your job,
if you are unable to
pay your mortgage,
unable to pay your rent,
unable to actually provide
meaningful resources
to your family,
it affects, in some
cases, whether or not
you have the ability to go and
exercise your right to vote.
And so we also want
to make sure that we
are making it easier for people
to vote, which is why the Human
Rights Campaign has launched
a campaign, Vote Equal, Vote
Safe, to make sure
that people can vote
and they have the resources
available to them to vote.
One of the tools that
we have is vote by mail.
It shouldn't be the only
option available to people.
But if you are unable
to leave because you
have an a weak immune
system, if you're
unable to leave because
you're an elderly person,
you should be able
to vote by mail.
In many states that
is not an option.
Absentee balloting is an option,
but there are so many strings
attached to absentee balloting.
One, you may never
receive the ballot.
Two, in some instances,
you are required
to have a witness assign
the absentee ballot.
And third, you have to
have a legitimate reason
for submitting to absentee
balloting in some states.
We have to remove those
restrictions so people
have the ability to vote.
AMY DACEY: Well, it's
exciting that you're
doing this new initiative.
I imagine so much of it,
in the LGBT community
and other communities,
is about education.
It's literally about having
them understand, and have a plan
to vote.
I think I recently was
talking about it's not
enough to say you're
going to vote.
You have to have a plan
because some of those barriers
and challenges
exist, and you have
to know what is happening
in your own community.
ALPHONSO DAVID: Yeah.
And for some people,
just showing up.
We are trying to orient
people so they understand
you might face challenges,
you might face long lines,
it may be raining,
it may be snowing.
But you have to stand in line.
You have to make sure
your voice is counted.
We have to push back at
systems that are trying
to oppress marginalized voices.
And that's what we have
to do, particularly
for this election this
is an opportunity for us
to really effect change
on a grand scale.
And in order for
us to do that, we
need to make sure that
everyone has an ability
to have their voice heard.
AMY DACEY: It's
interesting you mentioned--
obviously, coming
out of protest,
I think we've seen, with
the death of George Floyd
and communities coming together,
one of our AU Pride members
asked, how do allies
help with the movement,
and how did they support efforts
for equality because obviously,
it's stronger if more
voices are heard.
So how are allies
coming together?
How can they impact this
conversation right now?
ALPHONSO DAVID: I think first,
it's important for allies
to think about how we might be
able to change our mindsets.
So being an ally
is really great,
but I would rather
you be an advocate.
Be an advocate for change
so that you are taking
on this fight as your own.
Volunteering.
At the Human Rights Campaign,
we have volunteer opportunities.
There is community hub, which
is a site that you can go to.
If you go to the Human
Rights Campaign's website,
www.hrc.org, you can go into a
hub called Community Hub that
identifies all of the
volunteering opportunities
in your home district.
You can participate--
every Tuesday
we call into the swing states,
Arizona, Michigan, Nevada,
Ohio, Pennsylvania,
Wisconsin, and Texas.
Those are the states
that we believe,
based on last
year's projections,
hold the keys to
this year's election.
We call them the swing states.
Florida is also
included in some cases.
Another includes North Carolina.
But we are working
in those swing states
to reach out to
equality quality voters.
Equality voters
are those who are
inclined to prioritize
LGBTQ issues, equality
issues at the ballot box.
But we need to engage with them.
We need to make sure
they have the information
that they need in order
to adequately understand
and appreciate how
important this election is.
We are all bombarded with
a lot of information,
a lot of information that people
don't have time to process.
So our objective is making
sure that we provide them
with the information,
the resources,
so that they can exercise
their rights to vote.
But I would say for those
who are thinking, how can I
get involved, please
envision yourself
as being an advocate and
not necessarily an ally.
And also, volunteer.
You can donate to organizations
like the Human Rights Campaign.
We're a not for
profit organization.
We're doing this work.
And it helps us actually do
both the electoral work as well
as the program work.
AMY DACEY: I love
the word advocate
because it's so proactive.
And I do think
that's what we need
is to have people being active.
And I think the great
thing about the volunteer
network you're talking about
is, in an interesting way,
somebody in the
LGBT community might
live in a community that's
more open and accepting.
But we can't assume
that that's like that
throughout the country.
So this is a way to help
in other communities
to really share that,
expand the knowledge,
and help people in maybe
not your own community
to have access to
that information
they need so that they're
making the right decisions,
or they can get involved.
ALPHONSO DAVID: And Amy, just
to put a finer point on that,
in 29 states in
this country, there
are no comprehensive
nondiscrimination protections
for LGBTQ people.
So if someone says, well,
what does that really mean?
So in 29 states in
this country, there
are no state law protections
to prohibit discrimination
in housing, in public
accommodations,
in credit, in education, which
means that if you're LGBTQ,
you could face discrimination
in those states
and you would have no
recourse under state law.
So then your response is,
well, of course federal law
would protect us.
The answer there is,
in some cases, no.
There is no federal law
that provides protections
for LGBTQ people in terms
of non-discrimination
as it relates to
public accommodations.
Go into a dentist's office.
Go into a movie theater.
Transportation hubs is another.
So if I get into a lift or to
an Uber going from work home,
or going from home
to a social event,
I may live in a state that
has no state law protections,
and there are no
federal protections,
which means that if
I face discrimination
through a transportation hub,
I would have no recourse.
So it's important for us
to reach out as advocates
to advance this
information to those
who may not know so that we can
effect change on a broad scale.
AMY DACEY: Well, and it just
proves another point, that it's
so important to understand
who your public officials are,
who is representing you locally,
because these decisions,
sometimes, I think, we assume
are made at the national level.
But again, elections matter,
who's representing you.
But also, to be aware of
what legislation rules are
on the books in your
own state, which
might be different from somebody
else, a family member that
is in different states.
the fact that it's not
universal and that they
can have an impact, I
think, is really important.
ALPHONSO DAVID: You have
same sex couples all over
the country-- just
the last point--
who are married and
are thinking about,
if we move to another state,
are we going to be compromised?
AMY DACEY: I can't
even imagine that that
would have to be-- when they
should be deciding, what know,
is the best school system?
Where are we near family?
But to have that be still
a deciding factor when
you're making those decisions.
It's
ALPHONSO DAVID:
It's frightening.
AMY DACEY: To your point,
there's still a lot of work
to be done.
But I guess one question
I have is for HRC,
you do so much as
an organization.
What are the tools
in your toolbox?
What is most effective?
We talked about protest.
But legislation, the courts,
the business community
and having to partner
with them, public opinion,
making sure the right elected
officials are working with you.
It seems like all of
those are important.
That's a lot of
different layers to get
to the place we want to be.
ALPHONSO DAVID: Yeah.
I would say, because we are
the largest LGBTQ civil rights
organization in the
world, we do so much.
For people who may not be
familiar with the organization,
I would say it's
probably simple to put it
into three different buckets.
The first bucket is
electoral public policy,
where we support
public officials,
we endorse candidates,
we engage in elections
all over the country,
up and down the ballot
from the presidential
races to local races.
The second bucket, I
would say, are programs.
We provide resources and
support to LGBTQ people
and non-LGBTQ people
all across the country.
So we have 11 different programs
that range from the HIV/AIDS
program to the Historically
Black Colleges and Universities
program to Welcoming
Schools, which is making sure
that we have inclusive
LGBTQ curricula for schools.
And then finally, the
last bucket, I would say,
is education and
outreach, where we
do an incredible
amount of work, create
a lot of resources and research
to make sure that influences
and informs public policy.
We want to make sure that
elected officials have
the facts when they're
evaluating public policy.
I often say that public
policy is driven by fear, not
by facts.
And we have to
shift that paradigm.
Public policy has to be
driven by facts, not fear.
But in terms of the
tools that we have,
through the electoral
space, we have
more than 57 million
equality voters
who are going to engage
in this election,
and they hold the
keys to this election.
So we're working
with them to make
sure that they are engaged not
only in the presidential race,
but Congressional races
and local races as well.
In terms of our programs,
we're working with businesses,
we're working with other
not for profit organizations
to leverage our existing
resources so that we can reach
as many people as possible.
We have a program called
the Corporate Equality
Index, and that Corporate
Equality Index effectively
evaluates whether
or not companies
have inclusive policies.
We have more than
1,000 businesses
that are participating.
Why is that important?
Well, important
because if I'm LGBTQ
and I'm looking for a job, I
can look to see whether or not
that company is listed on
the Corporate Equality Index,
and I can see whether
or not that company has
very good LGBTQ policies.
And that can influence my choice
as to Company A versus Company
B.
So that's another
tool in our toolbox
that we use to not only inform
the public about services
and resources that
are available to them,
but also to hold businesses
accountable to make sure
that they are providing
inclusive and safe work
spaces for their employees.
And there are so
many different tools.
mean we have tools in the
electoral space, tools
in the programmatic space,
as well as in the education
outreach space.
AMY DACEY: Well, I think it's
important for, obviously,
all those to come together.
But it's important
that each sector--
the business community
has to step up.
Certainly our elected
officials have
to step when we're having
these conversations.
It's interesting.
One of the students
asked a question,
and I'm very curious to hear
what your answer to this
would be.
They asked, in the face of the
commercialization of pride,
what can queer young people
do to find their way back
to the roots of the
community while celebrating
their identities/ They always
ask the best questions.
ALPHONSO DAVID: That's
a fantastic question.
What I would say is we
all need to find a way
to personally own pride and
take a look back on our history.
And when we think about
personal advocacy,
yes, pride has
been commercialized
over the past few years.
But we cannot forget the
people who took us here,
the people who died as a result
of the struggle to get here.
So I would say, as we think
about the commercialization
of pride, think about your
personal advocacy in advancing
pride and how we
can use our history
to inform every single person
who [AUDIO OUT] important
of that history.
Most people may not [AUDIO OUT].
They may know about all of
the civil rights leaders who
came before us who
were responsible,
and are responsible,
I should say,
for the modern civil
rights movement.
AMY DACEY: I think
it's important
because as each generation
comes to these issues,
they're faced with
a different reality
as far as what Supreme Court
decisions are being made,
what elections.
So for young people
now, it seems to me
that this is an opportunity--
like you mentioned to voting--
this is really an
opportunity for them
to understand the
importance of that.
And certainly that
that has to become
a part of just what they do,
and not if I'm going to do it.
So again, it's a way
to use your voice.
I think it's so important
to have Pride in June
to talk about the history,
and certainly the fights
that the community has had.
But every month,
there should be a way
to make sure that
we're doing that.
And certainly some of
the months coming up
are going to be pretty important
to have that conversation.
ALPHONSO DAVID: Indeed.
AMY DACEY: And another question
they asked, which I think
is interesting, we are
in this place where we're
going through this pandemic.
There's health implications,
financial implications.
We are having this
conversation around race
in this country that
we haven't, I think,
had that we've seen before.
One of the questions was,
what should the priorities
of primarily white
LGBTQ organizations
be in promoting racial justice?
And so how can some of
the non-black members
of the community help to
support this conversation
around race and equality?
ALPHONSO DAVID: I
think they should,
and in many cases are,
making race core and central
to our struggle for equality.
A few weeks ago, I
had the privilege
of drafting a letter with
another colleague of mine
from Equality Florida.
And the letter has now been
signed on by more than 600
LGBTQ organizations.
And the core takeaway
from that letter
was that LGBTQ
organizations were
saying that racial
justice was not
going to be a necessary
corollary to their missions,
but was going to be core
and central to their mission
in effectuating equality.
That's what we need to do,
and in so many different ways,
from the programmatic work
to the administrative work,
from thinking about who you
hire to who you promote.
And white LGBTQ leaders
can also appreciate
that for much too long,
black and brown voices
have been stifled.
Black and brown voices have
been left out in the cold.
We have not been the ones
who most people would listen
to when we talk about
equality and justice
despite the fact that
history proves otherwise,
despite the fact
that history shows
that black and brown
members of our community
have been the ones who have
been leading the charge.
And I think that is something
that white leaders could
and should do.
How can I make sure that
the focus of our mission
is really [AUDIO OUT]
to manifest itself
in our program work.
It's also going to manifest
itself in administrative work.
We have to do both.
AMY DACEY: It's also
interesting to me,
like I mentioned in
your introduction,
you had a long career
in public service,
and you were inside an
governor's administration
in New York.
How do you think your work
in the public sector--
and thank you.
I always like to thank
people who take that on
to work in the public sector--
how do you think
that's helped you
to take on this role as an
advocate in a nonprofit group
to try and influence
that side of--
because I know a
lot of young people
have said they're trying to find
ways that they can influence
the system, whether
they go to work
in the public
sector or nonprofit.
And I think you've got such
an incredible perspective
of having both, so I'm
wondering how that helped you
for some of the things
that you're taking
on now for the organization.
ALPHONSO DAVID: So
I would say this.
I have experience in the public
sector, the private sector,
and not for profit sector.
And all three bring value
to my thinking on how to be
[AUDIO OUT].
I'll give you a little story.
I worked at [INAUDIBLE],, which
litigated the marriage case
in New York, for three years.
We won at the trial
court and ultimately lost
at the high court in New York.
And I had a choice
to make at that point
whether I thought it would
be more effective for me
to continue doing that
work from that perspective,
or do it from a
different perspective.
And I went in
government because I
thought there was a
moment in time where
I could advance LGBTQ
equality and really
advance the rights of other
marginalized communities
because we had a leader, in
Andrew Cuomo, who was really
supportive of LGBTQ rights.
And there was an
opportunity for me
to really advance the
rights of LGBTQ people
from the inside as
opposed to outside.
Now there are pros
and cons because there
are certain limitations
that you have in government.
You have to make sure that you
are applying the rules in a way
that you would to anyone.
You have to make
sure that you are
being an objective evaluator
of whatever the proposals
or initiatives are
that come to your desk.
You are not focused
only on one community.
You are focused on
the entire population.
But you can, if you are
working with the right people,
advance the cause
for justice if there
are like minded people that
support those principles.
And as a result, I was able
to draft the Marriage Equality
law in New York.
So it was a bookend where I
got to work on the litigation,
and also help to draft the
legislation in New York.
And I couldn't have done
that from the outside.
I wouldn't have had the access.
I wouldn't have had
the ability to work
on that piece of legislation
from the outside.
So as young people think about
where can I have the most
impact, I really think
it's a difficult question
to answer because it all
depends on the context.
Where do you live?
What are you considering?
Who would you be
working with and for?
Because that is going to inform,
to a large degree, which choice
is a better choice than
terms of effectuating impact.
And also keep in mind that
each position that you take on
may have a or lifetime band--
I'm trying to get
the phrase right.
A timeline is what I'm thinking.
There may be a timeline that's
attached to a certain position.
And understand that going in.
Understand it may
not be forever.
Understand it maybe for three
or five or 10 or 20 years.
But understand that in
every position you go in,
that there may be limitations
with respect to time
and what you can achieve.
AMY DACEY: It's interesting.
I'm sure you've had the
same experience, especially
when talking to young
people, I try to tell them,
it's not really a ladder and
it's not a straight line.
I'm sure your career has
been more of a jungle gym
than an actual ladder
when you think through how
you got to these places.
But you talk about
some of the work
that you did when you were
in the administration.
I think would be really
interesting to know,
for people that are in
the community, people
that aren't in the
community, what do you see?
The Supreme Court decision
was a huge decision.
It was a huge milestone.
But what issues
would we be surprised
about are still a
challenge for the community
that you're focused on
at your organization
and still advocating for to try
and change for this community
that we might be surprised by?
ALPHONSO DAVID: There's so many.
One is HIV.
One out of two black men who
identify as gay or bisexual
will contract HIV
in their lifetime.
One out of two.
So this idea that HIV is
dead is a flawed concept.
It is very, very much alive in
many parts of our communities.
And specifically, we're
seeing a spike in the south.
It's affecting black men
is affecting Latinx men,
disproportionately so.
And that is something
that we need
to address in a much more
impactful and meaningful way.
We also have to address
the plight of violence
that is facing members of
the transgender community.
The Human Rights
Campaign has been
tracking the killings of
transgender people since 2013.
Since 2013, we
have at least 178.
1-7-8.
178 transgender people have
been killed in this country.
Most of them are
people of color.
Most of them are black women.
Last year at least 27
people were killed.
This year at least
16 have been killed.
So there is a crisis that
is facing the transgender
community.
We've launched a transgender
justice initiative.
We have a national director who
is managing that program that
focuses on employment, capacity
building, anti-violence work,
as well as education
and outreach.
But there's a lot more work that
we have to do in that space.
We also have to make sure that
the conservative right is not
able to use flawed
religious arguments in order
to roll back LGBTQ rights.
And we've seen that
happen, in some instances,
where the argument
is, well, we're
going to deny a same
sex couple the right
to be an adoptive
parent, or parents,
or serve as foster
parents because it offends
the core tenets of our faith.
My answer is, then don't
provide services to the public
because you can't say
I'm providing services
to the public, and
yet I want the right
to discriminate against
which members of the public I
provide services to.
So that is going to be an
issue that we have to address
moving forward as well.
And then finally, I would say,
at its core-- and what drives
so much of this--
is our democracy.
We are fighting
for our democracy.
And make no mistake.
This election is one of
the most consequential,
if not the most consequential
election of our lifetimes.
And we have seen a
strategic chipping away
at our democracy and
the institutions that
support our democracy, from
the Department of Justice
to the media.
And we have to seize
back our democracy.
Otherwise, we will lose it.
I, unfortunately, have
experience in that.
I lived in a country where
it was a democratically led
government that shifted
over to a dictatorship
in the course of
a few hours, where
there was a military coup.
So our democracy is fragile
of we don't invest in it.
And we have to make
sure we invest in it
and make sure those pillars
are very strong in order
for this construct to support
us living collaboratively,
supportively, and under
the principles of equality
and justice.
AMY DACEY: I so appreciate
your willingness
to share that personal
experience because I think some
of the frustration that
sometimes people have organized
is that people take for
granted that these systems are
in place, and they're strong,
and that we have nothing
to worry about.
And I do think
that's the question.
Are they putting questions
on what is our democracy?
We're having really
good conversations
about the police
and law enforcement
in this country as well.
I think in every aspect of
our social institutions,
how are we having
that conversation?
And so I appreciate you
being willing to share
that because I think sometimes
people have a perception,
especially because we
have such a short lifespan
compared to many other countries
about what we're able to do.
It's got to be
challenging, though,
being a leader of a
national organization.
You must have two
fronts, though.
You're fighting for
national legislation,
but individual states you
want to make an impact in,
do you partner with
community organizations
in states to try and
make an impact there?
Do you find that
there's that ability
to have organizations
within their own state
that are trying to also
work on these issues
that people should know about?
ALPHONSO DAVID: Yes.
So we partner with organizations
in the electoral space,
in the programmatic space, in
the educate outreach spaces.
My objective, coming and
running this organization,
is to really drive one of the
most fundamental principles I
adopted a long time ago, is if
you work collaboratively, you
can achieve impact quicker and
in a much more impactful way.
If you operate in a silo, and
you operate with blinders on,
you may achieve a
success, but that success
will not be sustainable and
you will not have [AUDIO OUT]..
And I feel very strongly about
the importance of thinking
about creating
those collaborations
and those relationships
where we may not all
agree on what the answer
is, but we should certainly
have conversations about
how to approach or create
a path to getting
to the right answer
because I value dissenting
voices, constructive dissenting
voices.
And I think that as we advance
the movement for equality,
there's so many
different perspectives
that people bring to the table.
And understanding
those perspectives help
inform your view and help
you achieve a much more,
I would say, a sustainable
impact, as opposed
to getting a win,
but that win is taken
away from you two years later.
We have to make sure we
are building systems,
and those systems
are sustainable.
So you can only do
that in collaboration.
AMY DACEY: And I just
want to remind people
that we're taking questions,
so please keep them coming in.
One question for
you, Alphonso, is
about students
going into college
and coming out of their
community that they grew up, in
and they're going
off to college.
How can they make
an impact if they're
passionate about these issues,
are a part of the community
or want to support
the community?
I'm sure that you have youth
programs as well at HRC,
or you mention.
And we will certainly
post as well
the ways to volunteer
and to help at HRC.
But as a young
person, what would you
advise if somebody who cares
about this, how they can get
involved and make an impact?
ALPHONSO DAVID: So we do have
the Youth Ambassadors program.
We have both a global program
and a domestic program.
So I would ask folks
to get on our website.
They can learn more
about those programs.
We can certainly
send specific links
so that they can go
directly to those programs.
I would say evaluate those
programs to see whether or not
they're helpful.
We also have fellowship programs
and internship programs.
Those, unfortunately,
are not being
advanced in the same way
they were in the past because
of COVID-19.
But those are certainly
programs that we have.
Those programs
exist, and we will
be expanding those
programs in the future,
so that also is
another opportunity.
And I would say
follow your passion.
And if you're interested
in this work, volunteer.
If you're interested
in this work,
contact us and
say you would like
to engage with us in some way.
We certainly would welcome
the help and the engagement,
and specifically from people
who are committed and passionate
about the work because we
have a lot of work to do.
So there are many
ways to volunteer.
There are many ways
to get involved.
I would encourage people to
explore all those options.
AMY DACEY: Here's
another good question
that we're going to keep you
on your toes here, Alphonso.
Is there any specific
moment in the course
of the movement that
has made the most impact
or was the most
significant milestone?
ALPHONSO DAVID: Ooh.
AMY DACEY: That's a tough one.
ALPHONSO DAVID: That
is an unfair question.
I cannot answer that question
without dying of 1,000 cuts.
AMY DACEY: Well, let me rephrase
a little, maybe, to help you.
Was there one that was a
building block that then
helped really move things out?
ALPHONSO DAVID:
There were so many.
Evan Wolfson arguing the case
in Hawaii to allow same sex
couples to marry,
which completely
changed the cultural zeitgeist.
The state of New
York passing a piece
of legislation allowing
people to marry,
which once again changed
the cultural zeitgeist.
Joe Biden talking about marriage
equality on Meet the Press.
AMY DACEY: It was a big moment.
ALPHONSO DAVID: It
was a huge moment.
And that's only
marriage equality.
We can talk about
Matthew Shepard,
who was unfortunately
murdered, and what
that did for the movement in
terms of advancing hate crimes
legislation.
We can talk about transgender
rights specifically,
and something as recent
as Pose, the television
show Pose, which
has really opened up
the eyes of many people
who may not have interacted
with anyone who is transgender.
And they are getting a chance
to see a certain perspective.
It's not reflective of the
trans experience writ large,
but they're seeing a certain
perspective that they may not
have seen before.
Or Sylvia Rivera, or Marsha
P. Johnson fighting back
at Stonewall, is a
moment that I think
defined the moment
and the movement
that I would have
to mention as well.
Or James Baldwin,
who is on my wall,
writing about equality and
justice and about value,
and how the US construct, as
we call it, the experiment,
has really done a disservice
to black and brown people.
When he started writing
about those themes
in the '50s and the
'60s, it sort of
changed what people
thought about.
So there are so many
different landmarks.
It's difficult to
point to one that I
would say is defining
of the movement
because we are really operating
on a very strong foundation
of leaders and luminaries
from the past who
created a path for
us that we're on now.
AMY DACEY: It's
unbelievable how many people
have contributed over
the decades to moving us
to this point.
And as you mentioned,
the fight still goes on.
You brought up Pose.
I'm very curious.
There must have been times
when the entertainment
industry, the music
industry, have helped
and hurt the cause as well.
It's such a large platform.
So I think holding the industry
accountable to make sure
that the community's
represented in the right
way has to be a big
part of making sure
that people's perceptions
aren't skewed,
or they are not getting the
true meaning of what this is.
ALPHONSO DAVID: Yeah.
An example is the
Human Rights Campaign.
We have this Corporate
Equality Index
that I mentioned to
you before, which
really evaluates
whether or not companies
have inclusive policies.
And recently, we had to take
a position against Hallmark
because Hallmark,
there was an ad
of two women kissing
at a wedding.
Hallmark took down the
ad under some pressure.
And as a result,
our position was,
then you're not an
inclusive company,
we've and we will
not rank you as high
as we ranked you before.
And as a result of the
actions that we took--
and other organizations
were involved as well--
Hallmark changed their position.
And they apologized to the
community for removing the ad.
But to your point,
we've also seen
really offensive
representations of LGBTQ people
in media for quite some time.
It has certainly changed.
But we've seen really offensive
and non-representative images
of LGBTQ people as victims,
as the ones who always die,
as the ones who are
attackers, as the ones who
are attacking young kids.
And none of that is
reflective of the facts,
where we've seen people sort
of conflate concepts and ideas.
So a lot of work
that we've done.
Will and Grace was certainly
a significant landmark.
And I think there
are many other shows.
I don't want to
leave any out out.
Noah's Ark is another
that I personally
enjoyed as a black man,
seeing those images reflected
on the screen, and seeing how it
is so important that we respect
the representation of
marginalized communities
and accurate representations
of them on the screen.
Philadelphia.
I mean, the list goes on.
Things have changed, but I still
think we have a lot of work
to do.
And the Human Rights
Campaign and others
are involved in
this to make sure
that we hold businesses, and
largely the media, responsible.
AMY DACEY: I think so
many people can also
use their voice to
call that out when they
think it's not appropriate.
But you've also got so many
incredible spokespeople
from the community
that are from various--
whether it's sports or
entertainment or the business
community or media.
How important is it that
they use their voices
to help bring enlightenment,
and to bring, also, individuals
to support the cause?
And you must use those voices,
in a way, to kind of help.
It's important for everyone
to be able to see somebody
in their community
that looks like them,
represents them, that's a
part of the LGBT community.
ALPHONSO DAVID: It
is so important.
Not only LGBTQ people,
but non-LGBTQ people
to use their voices to push
back against LGBTQ bigotry
and anti-LGBTQ sentiment.
Jesse Tyler Ferguson,
as an example,
who is on Modern Family,
has used his voice
so brilliantly to make sure
that he elevate LGBTQ voices.
There are many others.
Sally Field has
done the same thing.
Meryl Streep has
done the same thing.
So we have celebrities who
have risen up and appreciated
that their voice will have an
impact in the public discourse.
And they think that they can
serve as effective advocates.
We work very closely with them.
And then we also work
with CEOs of companies
who understand also
that they have a voice
and that they can
influence cultures.
They can influence the
culture within their industry.
They can influence the
culture within their business.
And we want them to use
their voices to effect change
as well.
AMY DACEY: And so
for individuals
who want resources,
who need support,
who might be facing challenges
as they talk about their being
a part of the LGBT
community, whether they're
with their families--
does HRC also provide
support for individuals
who find it difficult sometimes
within their own community
to share their identity?
ALPHONSO DAVID: Yes.
So as I mentioned before, we
have 11 different programs.
And those programs range
from birth to death.
We have programs
that provide services
to those who are elderly.
We have programs
that provide services
to those that are in middle
school and junior high school
and high school and college.
And so all of those
services are available.
One of the issues that
causes me some concern
now that we're going
through COVID-19
are young people
who are at home.
And maybe they're not
out to their family.
And maybe this is
the first time,
and they're
concerned about being
open and out to their family.
Some have contemplated suicide.
So we've worked with other
organizations like the Trevor
Project to make sure that we
are providing support, providing
resources, connecting people to
the resources that they need.
And at the Human Rights
Campaign we're doing that.
Other organizations are as well.
AMY DACEY: It's interesting.
You mentioned how
COVID's impact is
young people who might be living
at home with their parents.
I think for a lot of people, we
talk about the economic risks
as well.
That statistic you said
about 40% of the community
in these industries that
are the most impacted.
Do you have any kind
of information about,
or we need to support small
business owners who are also
LGBTQ or in the community
because I'm sure
that they're being
impacted as we
move into different phases
in these different states.
I'm sure there's a lot
of the individual worker,
but also business
owners, I think,
would be seriously impacted
in this way as well.
ALPHONSO DAVID: Yeah.
Business owners have
been seriously impacted.
And so we have been providing
support to those business
owners to make sure to the
extent they have questions,
we're able to
potentially connect them
to the resources
that are available.
One concern that we had
is the stimulus packages
that have been issued by
Congress, they were great.
But in 29 states
in this country,
there are no
nondiscrimination protections.
So the statute may be fine.
The implementation may not.
AMY DACEY: It's literally
unequal in implementation
because there's not continuity.
ALPHONSO DAVID: Correct.
So we have been
pushing to make sure
that the stimulus
packages include
non-discrimination
protections because we're
fearful that in some states,
those protections, because they
don't exist, LGBTQ people may
have challenges gaining access
to basic resources that we
believe that everyone should
be entitled to.
AMY DACEY: It's interesting.
I even came to you
and your team and said
it would be great to have
this conversation during June,
and it's Pride Month.
As the leader of one of the
largest LGBTQ organizations,
what's July 1 like?
I mean.
You still have to
fight these fights.
So what do we want
people doing July 1,
because there is a challenge.
Every month we should
focus on these issues
and move them forward,
and it's great to have
the awareness with June.
But how do we keep having this
conversation and making sure
that we're making people
aware of the challenges,
we're also telling them what
the opportunities are to make
change as we move forward.
ALPHONSO DAVID: You will be
hearing more from the Human
Rights Campaign
about our priorities
for the next few months.
But if there's one
thing I would say
that people should focus
on July, August, September,
October, November, where
we're there in five months.
And we need to make sure
that our voices are heard.
I don't have to get
ideologically specific except
to say that we want to make
sure that people can exercise
their rights to
vote, and we need
to make sure that the resources
are there for them to do it.
And so we are working with
the Leadership Conference
on Civil and Human Rights.
We're working with [INAUDIBLE].
We're working with Vote Latino.
We're working with a
variety of organizations
to make sure that people can
exercise their right to vote,
which I believe is going to
be key and central to seizing
our democracy back
and really making sure
that it's reflective of what
we all believe it should
be in the Constitution.
AMY DACEY: Yeah.
It's going to be such a focus.
We are in an election year.
And in a great way, we've
seen some primaries recently,
there are some people
from the LGBTQ community
that are winning primaries
that are running.
There are certainly,
if you also want
to support candidates who
are from the community who
identify, it's a great way
to also-- we want diversity,
certainly, in our
elected officials
so that everybody
can see themselves,
whether it's in the
halls of Congress
or in their local counsel,
there are opportunities.
And I think that
there's a lot of energy.
Some of these
young people should
consider running, or being a
part of leadership somewhere
that helps move that forward.
Every chance I get to tell
somebody to run for office,
I'm like, do it, do it.
ALPHONSO DAVID: Well, I'll give
them a little bit of a prodding
just so they understand that
the equality voters are there.
In most cases, LGBTQ voters
account for about 4.5%
of the population in each state.
For the primaries,
they accounted
for 10% of the voters.
AMY DACEY: 10%.
ALPHONSO DAVID: 10%.
In some cases, 12% of the
voters, although they only
account for 4.5% of the
voters in those states.
So LGBTQ voters are punching
above their weights.
And we need to make sure that
others who support equality
are picking up the mantle to
represent their constituents,
to represent their neighbors,
to make sure that we have
inclusive policies because that
is so important moving forward.
AMY DACEY: If you
don't mind, one
of the questions
from the young people
was more of a personal
one from your experience.
They wanted to know if your
career in social justice,
was it because of
where you're from
and the challenges to
democracy in the country
that you grew up in?
Did this really kind of instill
in you to go down this path?
Or was there a moment when you
said, I want to do this work?
ALPHONSO DAVID: I think
there were two or three
moments that refined my
current path and trajectory.
One was living in Liberia,
living under democracy,
losing it, and living
under a dictatorship,
and living under house arrest
for close to three years,
having my father
be in prison simply
because of his
political ideology.
My uncle was
assassinated because
of his political ideology.
So I was initially
being groomed to be
a surgeon, to be a doctor.
I was supposed to go to Oxford
and then come back to Liberia
and practice medicine.
That changed after the war.
And I think that led me
on the path of the law
because I understood that our
lives are governed by the law.
Nothing else really governs
us as much as the law.
And as a kid I was thinking,
well, the traffic lights,
they go from red,
yellow, to green.
But then at a certain time of
night, they start flickering.
Who decides that?
And my dad said, the law.
AMY DACEY: Flat out, the law.
ALPHONSO DAVID: The law.
You know, somebody
decided that that's
when, at midnight, the lights
are going to start flickering.
And for me, after the
war, it became clear to me
that the law can be manipulated.
And we've seen it
manipulated for a long time.
Dred Scott, a
Supreme Court case,
said that I, as a black
man, was not a full person
under the Constitution.
Bragdon versus Abbott considered
me to be a criminal under law.
So we've seen the
law manipulated.
And I wanted to make
sure that I use my gifts,
be that what they are, to
advance the cause for equality
because I wanted to
manipulate the law in a way
that it is going to benefit
those who it's been structured
to benefit.
It should be
manipulated in a way
to achieve equality and
inclusively because many
have read it to be exclusive.
Many have read the
law to say you're not
a part of this when, in
fact, the intent was, just
on the page, there was
no intent to exclude.
But nevertheless, they
have manipulated the law
to exclude people.
And I'm trying to
use the law in a way
that it was intended to be used.
And that is why I do what I do.
But there are many
touch points that
helped me refine my
vision as to what
I wanted to do with my life.
AMY DACEY: Well, we just have
time for one more question.
I'm going to take the liberty
to ask it because I'm curious.
So much of what's
happening now is,
it seems like the
weight of the world
is on us, between the health
crisis, the financial crisis,
certainly the challenges
with race in this country
and the conversations
that we're having.
And anybody with
your background,
with what you've seen, could
be despondent or let down.
What inspires you?
What are you hopeful
about that this moment
might push us toward?
What do you think
could come out of this
that you're hopeful about?
ALPHONSO DAVID: I am hopeful
that this moment forces
us to see beyond ourselves.
And if we're able to do that,
we're able to achieve equality.
It sounds simple.
But for some people, it's
much more complicated
because it forces
you to take a break
and stop, and say, how
can I, as an individual,
see beyond myself?
How can I identify
priorities that
affect my neighbors although
it may not directly affect me?
That's immigration
for some people.
That's LGBTQ rights for others.
That's women's
rights for others.
When we think about
marginalized communities,
we often have
marginalized communities
fighting for themselves.
How do we get to the point
where the masses are also
fighting to make sure
that we have equality?
I am encouraged by the images
that I see of the protesters
all across the country.
Many of the faces are
not black and brown.
So those people
who are protesting
are seeing beyond themselves
in the act of protest.
We need to make sure
we carry through
in the act of legislation,
in the act of voting.
We need to make sure that people
are seeing beyond themselves so
that we have equality, and
that equality is sustainable,
because if we win tomorrow
and lose the next day,
we haven't achieved anything.
AMY DACEY: Well, thank you.
You've made me hopeful.
You've made me inspired.
On behalf of the Sine
Institute and AU Pride,
thank you so much for--
we know how busy you are--
taking time and having
this conversation with us.
When we can be together
again in person,
you are welcome onto
the university campus,
and we'd like to have
you come and spend
some time with our students
when you're able to.
So thank you for sharing
your personal story,
the work of HRC.
We will make sure, here
at the Sine Institute,
that we're sharing information
about how you can either get
involved or learn more--
I know there's some great
information on the website--
and stay in touch.
Thank you for spending time
with us during Pride Month,
and we really do look
forward to getting you
on campus again soon, Alphonso.
ALPHONSO DAVID: Thank you.
Thank you so much
for having me, Amy.
AMY DACEY: Take care.
