Iris B. Carlton-LaNey , A.M. ’74,  Ph.D.:
So hello. It's a pleasure to be here. I'm
going to talk with you about things that I
like talking about. I often don't have an
audience so I am very pleased to have one
so that you'll listen and engage with me as
I talk about some of our pioneers that we
hear very little about, that many of us have
no idea about. Although many of you probably
do. So as I talk I'm going to ask that you
participate with me, because while I know
some things I'm sure you have something to
contribute and I'd like for you to do that
as we talk.
So let me say, it's been 40 plus years since
I have been in Chicago and at SSA. 40 plus,
I look good, don't I? So this is like an opportunity
to come home without snow and to just talk
about some people who developed a parallel
system of social work social welfare across
this country during the early part of the
1900s. So I'm going to show you photographs
and I'm going to talk about these people from
the photographs. And again, ask that you participate
with me.
So this parallel system that I'm going to
talk 
about involved the National Association of
Women's Clubs. So African-American women became
reformers and developed social work social
welfare services during the progressive era,
and a little before the progressive era. And
they were followed by the sororities and the
fraternities in the African-American community.
So we have a clear history of social work
social service development and delivery that
somehow doesn't get discussed in our text.
So we're going to talk about it now. So I
start with Mary Church Terrell. So Mary Church
Turrell was a pioneer in the women's club
movement. So much of the work she did was
under the auspices of women's clubs. So look
at her. So she grew up wealthy, both of her
parents were wealthy. Her father was Robert
Church. Her father owned Beale Street in Memphis.
You familiar with Beale Street? So it didn't
look like that when Robert Church owned it.
It was really business commercial hub for
the African-American community. And Robert
Church acquired all of this street during
a yellow fever epidemic when people were fleeing
Memphis and getting rid of whatever they owned
for very little. So that's when Robert Church
made his purchases. Mary Church, Terrell's
mother, was also independently wealthy and
they divorced. So she grew up very privileged
and she was a graduate of Oberlin College.
And she graduated from Oberlin before Oberlin
began to discriminate and segregate.
Because Oberlin didn't do that until after
Plessy v Ferguson. So when she matriculated
at Oberlin she had access to all of the other
services and programs that anybody there had.
So her experiences were often experiences
of privilege, where she did not experience
discrimination. Because of the way she looked
she could pass. She didn't make it a practice
but she didn't shy away from it if it was
convenient. You know what passing is. Do I
need to say anything else? Tell me.
So there were those of us in the African-American
community who had very little melanin and
could easily pass for white. And many, many
African-Americans did and do. We don't make
it a habit of outing people who pass because
they can get killed. And because those individuals
who could pass provided a service that those
of us who couldn't pass needed. So Mary Church
Terrell would pass during those times when
she was in segregated transportation. And
it was uncomfortable and unattractive and
smoky and dirty and she would just sit in
the lady's car which was reserved for white
ladies.
But she had a grandma who helped her to understand
that she had an obligation to her people.
And while she didn't experience directly a
lot of discrimination, a lot of African-Americans
did. And kind of according to Dubois's Talented
Ten, she was taught that she had an obligation
to those individuals. So it was that, that
prepared her to be an activist. And she was.
She was an activist throughout her life. At
age, I think around 77 she was still picketing
segregated restaurants in Washington D.C.
She married Robert Terrell, who was an attorney
and a municipal judge in Washington D.C. So
she continued a life of privilege, but even
with that privilege she was an advocate. Actually,
Booker T. Washington told her husband, you
need to muzzle your wife. Because she was
not one to be quiet. She was an activist and
an agitator for change. So do you have anything
you'd like to add? Is there something that
I have not said that needs to be said about
Mary Church Terrell?
AUDIENCE: She has a doctorate in what? It
looks like Doctor Mary Church Terrell.
IRIS CARLTON-LANEY: If she has one I don't
know what it was in and it could well have
been honorary. Do any of you know? So you
Google people just look that up in a minute
and share that with us. Anybody else? Yes.
AUDIENCE: Can you explain [INAUDIBLE]?
IRIS CARLTON-LANEY: I'm sorry?
AUDIENCE: Can you explain what the women's
clubs [INAUDIBLE]?
AUDIENCE: The women's club.
AUDIENCE: What is the women's club?
IRIS CARLTON-LANEY: It was an organization,
usually called the National Association of
Women's Clubs. These were women's ways of
organizing across the country. They organized
for planned change for political activism
for developing social services and social
welfare programs locally and nationally. Some
people complained that they were a set of
social butterflies on dress parade. And they
looked good. They did dress up. But they were
very clear and purposeful in terms of agitating
and advocating for change.
And so they kind of did what the communities
around them needed, whatever they identified
those things as being. Would you like to add
anything, anybody?
AUDIENCE: The doctorate was the 1948 Oberlin
honorary.
IRIS CARLTON-LANEY: Okey, doke, thank you.
And so when I think of Ida Bell Wells-Barnett
I think of Chicago. You probably know her.
Interesting person, she's actually one of
my favorite people. Raised hell all the time.
A very impatient person. Not one to wait around
and negotiate. She kind of believed that it
was obvious, what needed to happen was obvious.
This woman was a journalist, she owned at
least four newspapers in her time. Because
owning newspapers, it was critical to have
a mechanism for communicating, for sharing
information.
And the easiest and best way to do that was
to have your own newsletter or newspaper.
So she did own four. And her-- the most famous
one, the Memphis Free Speech and Headlight
was on Beale Street. And if you're ever on
Beale Street there is a historic marker for
that newspaper. She was an anti-lynching crusader.
You can download the Red Record, which she
published to kind of chronicle lynchings across
the country. She's an interesting person.
She used her connection with journalists to
get real stories about why lynchings had actually
taken place.
Because, generally, newspapers would kind
of make up something, usually about African-American
men and white women as to why the lynchings
took place. But Ida B. Wells-Barnett relied
on her relationship with journalists across
the country. But she did something else unique,
she hired Pinkerton agents to get information
that she could not access. You remember Alan
Pinkerton, the detective agency? Well Alan
Pinkerton -- well that was a guy named Alan
Pinkerton who had a detective agency.
And Pinkerton had detective agencies who were
African-American as well as white. And she
would hire those agents to go into those places--
where she would lose her life if she went--
to get the real information about lynchings,
why they had occurred. And some of that content
is in the Red Record. She also had a settlement
house on State Street, The Negro Fellowship
League and Reading Room. She kind of liked
men a little better than she did women so
many of her services and programs were geared
toward African-American men.
But she also started-- I think it was in 1913--
that Alpha Suffrage Club, which was a political
organization for African-American women in
Illinois to give them the vote. Because as
she said, white women suffragists were really
aiming not to include African-American women.
So whatever it was they could do to not include
those women they did. So the Alpha Suffrage
Club was a mechanism for making certain that
African-American women had a political organization
that provided them information that taught
them the politics of what was going on so
that they could be better informed and vote.
Anybody want to add something to this? You
all know that she was not a Chicagoan. But
a lot of what she did, she did in Chicago,
in Illinois. Excuse me? She's really from
Mississippi. So one other thing about this
woman. She married Ferdinand Barnett, also
an attorney and an older gentleman. Because
she was kind of difficult and so perhaps Ferdinand
found that attractive. And she married Ferdinand,
I think they had four children, and she immediately
kept doing what she had always done and just
taking her children with her. There was something
else I was going to tell you, I can�t--
Oh, she did say that one good way for African-Americans
to deal with institutionalized and structural
racism was to have a Winchester rifle in their
homes at all times.
And with that weapon constantly available
they would find themselves less likely to
be harassed. She also, like Mary Church Terrell,
she signed the call for the formation of the
NAACP. There were two African-American women
who signed that call, Ida B. Wells-Barnett
and Mary Church Terrell. There were six white
women, like Jane Addams, Florence Kelly, Julia
Lathrop, and I can't remember the others who
also signed the call for the formation. So
they were the initial founding members of
the NAACP.
You might not be as familiar with Charlotte
Hawkins Brown. Primarily thought of as a North
Carolina pioneer, Charlotte Hawkins Brown
established or founded Palmer Memorial Institute
in Sedalia, North Carolina. It was a finishing
school for middle class African-American men
and women. And I have a photograph of the
canary cottage, and that was like the main
house on the grounds of Palmer Memorial Institute.
The canary cottage was where she kind of taught
the students at Palmer Memorial Institute
the social graces.
Because she sort of believe that if African-Americans
could master those social graces then that
would at least eliminate one reason for discrimination
and exclusion. So to that end she published
The Correct Thing to Do, to Say, and to Wear.
It's really hilarious. But it's not all bad.
You know, it has some good content. And it
has some regular kinds of things that some
of us were thought, that maybe people aren't
taught those things. She had things like,
when you entered the classroom, speak to your
professor.
You all do that all the time right? So it
was like, this is one of the things that one
should do that's appropriate. It's just courteous.
So she taught those kinds of things. Also,
you know, how you hold the teacup in one hand
and the crumpet in the-- you know, those kinds
of things. She taught those things as well.
But what she also did was she organized African-American
women in North Carolina through those women's
clubs. So while she founded Palmer Memorial
Institute for middle class African-American
students, she also was a founder of Efland
Home.
And Efland Home was a training school for
African-American girls. North Carolina had
a training school for black boys, white boys,
and white girls. It had nothing for African-American
girls, they went to prison. So Efland Home
became the state training school eventually
after she established it. Is there anything
anybody would like to add? Yes.
AUDIENCE: You're saying they went to prison?
IRIS CARLTON-LANEY: Yes.
AUDIENCE: The girls? The African-American
women?
IRIS CARLTON-LANEY: The girls, uh-huh. Because
there were no facilities for them. There was
no training school, there was no option. It
was just-- prison was the only option for
them. And these weren't-- they were different
from the crimes that are committed today.
They were things like running away from home,
being disrespectful. The literature says they
were just sorry and worthless. I don't know
what that means. But you could be incarcerated
for those things, you know? If you were hanging
around brothels, whether you were into commercial
sex or not, you couldn't get-- you could go
to prison just for being there.
And so Efland Home became that alternative
so that these young women were not put in
prisons. And note the hat, she was quite fashionable.
Her papers say that her carnations on her
suits always looked as though they were dripping
with morning dew. So you know Asa Philip Randolph.
So when I talk about social work social welfare
I'm certainly talking about it in the broad
term, which is the way all of our pioneers
were described. As you think about social
work and social welfare, our pioneers determined
what it was.
These individuals also determined what it
meant. So Asa Philip Randolph was sometimes
referred to as the most dangerous man in America.
And he was referred to as being such a dangerous
person because he was a labor organizer. So
he was an organizer, That was what he did.
He organized the Brotherhood of Sleeping Car
Porters. And the porters came to him to help
them to organize. Now I don't know about Illinois,
but North Carolina is a right to work state,
it's not a union state. You still risk your
life organizing in North Carolina.
But during the time that he organized the
Brotherhood of Sleeping Car Porters, his life
was in danger. And the Porter�s lives were
in danger. The Porters were African-American
men who worked on the trains, the Pullman
trains. There's a movie that's called 10,000
Men Named George, and it's about the Porters
and it's about organizing. And the movie's
name tells you how little the Porters were
considered. Because every Pullman car Porter
lost his name and his visibility. He became
an invisible African-American image of George
Pullman because they were all called George,
all of them, they didn't have names.
They also had no bargaining power. George
Pullman took very good care of people who
worked for him, but not the Porters. And these
men, many of them were college educated because
these were good jobs. They afforded them a
good salary, a steady income, opportunities
to travel and other things. So these were
very good jobs. But they were not treated
well by George Pullman so they organized under
Asa Philip Randolph's leadership. He also
had a journal that was called The Messenger
that he started with Chandler Owens.
And that messenger, The Messenger became the
literary organ for the Brotherhood of Sleeping
Car Porters. Again, the importance of having
your own organ to communicate in writing to
your audience. Asa Philip Randolph's name
is also associated with the March on Washington
because he was a founder, an organizer for
the March on Washington in '65. Is that right?
In '63? In '63. But what happened was that
he approached FDR about labor issues and FDR
reached a compromise with him so that there
would not be a march on Washington.
I think this was in '41. So what FDR did was
said, I will desegregate defense labor so
that African-Americans can have access to
some of those contracts if we don't have a
March on Washington. So later, I think it
was '48, he approached Truman. We're going
to have a March on Washington for freedom
and jobs. And Truman issued an order that
said we will desegregate the military, the
Air Force, the Marines, the Army if we don't
have a march on Washington. So it was in the
'63 that the march finally took place, after
these concessions.
Now we're talking about this man who approaches
two sitting presidents and says, if you don't
do this we will do this. So you have to say
he was dangerous. Somebody perceived him to
be very dangerous. And then you have to look
at the changes in terms of institutionalized
structural oppression. The changes that took
place because of this one man who said if
this doesn't happen, this will happen. Imagine
that. When I think about what I have done,
what I do as a professional social worker,
and then I think about what these people did
was fear less, it makes you not whine.
You know, it makes you just go do the work
you're supposed to do and say, OK, what else
do you want me to do? What else do I need
to do? Because compared to what these people
did I'm really not doing as much as I ought
to be doing. And so I love to talk about these
people because just talking about them motivates
me to do more, to do better, to be a better
advocate, and to pay more� oh you, North
Carolina. My state is just a national embarrassment,
but I don't want to talk about it. But you
know, I don't have to.
All you have to do is just turn on the news
and there we are. But it does make you-- it
makes me feel the need to do more, to do better.
Anybody want to add any extra Philip Randolph
content? Yes, please.
AUDIENCE: Two things. And I'll say this speculatively
so if people think I'm wrong let know. First,
I want to say J. Edgar Hoover-- or somehow
the government had a file on Asa Philip Randolph?
IRIS CARLTON-LANEY: Absolutely.
AUDIENCE: OK, so they had a file on him.
IRIS CARLTON-LANEY: Yes they did.
AUDIENCE: And then also, again speculatively,
I think he might have been a mentor for Bayard
Rustin, and Bayard Rustin is one of the few
that's credited for putting together the 1963
March on Washington. And Bayard Rustin is
also the person who introduced Doctor King
to a lot of Ghandian concepts about non-violence.
IRIS CARLTON-LANEY: Absolutely. Thank you
very much. So you may think nobody has a file
on you, but people watch you. And I think
putting it mildly would be to say that many
of these organizations had people who infiltrated
that the FBI sent. And so sometimes you go--
what is that people say about paranoia? What
is the phrase? I may be paranoid but--
AUDIENCE: [INAUDIBLE]
IRIS CARLTON-LANEY: That's what it is, that's
what it is. So thank you. Yeah, the FBI did
have a file on him and a file on many of these
people that I'm talking about. If you think
of anything that we need to share, please,
please do that. So this is Elizabeth Ross
Haynes. And over next to her that's her husband,
George Edmund Haynes. And this guy sitting
down here in color is their grandson, Dr.
Bruce Haynes. So this is George. So I'm going
to talk kind of about George and Elizabeth
Ross Haynes together. Now I'll go back to
her.
So I did my dissertation on George Edmund
Haynes. Yes, I did a historical dissertation.
I learned a bunch of stuff. Even though I
have three degrees in social work I learned
some things I had never heard of in terms
of the development of my profession. So George
and his wife graduated from Fisk University
in Nashville, Tennessee. They were Fiskites.
And George was the co-founder of the National
Urban League. His wife, Elizabeth, affectionately
called Rossie, Elizabeth Ross Haynes did much
of her work around women and labor issues.
She got her master's in sociology from Columbia.
And she wrote a dissertation on women in domestic
service. That work kind of stood as the seminal
work for 50 years thereafter, before someone
else began to research that same population.
George was the first African-American to graduate
from Columbia School of Social Work. His doctorate
is political science and economics from Columbia.
And their grandson, Dr. Bruce. So I did my
dissertation on George Hanes.
And so as I'm doing this work I asked individuals,
tell me about him. Who in the Urban League
knows about him? Where are their children?
And I found out, belatedly, that they had
one son who was also a social worker. Got
his master's at Atlanta University. And so
I'm still asking people, tell me, there have
to be family members someplace, tell me. About--
and I wrote my dissertation a long time ago.
But maybe about three summers ago I got a
call from Dr. Bruce Haynes and he said, I
understand you do a lot of work on my family.
And it's like, oh my god! You know, so you
go, please let me have gotten it right. Please
don't let this be a lot of-- And of course,
as it turned out, I knew much more about them
than he did because you don't know your family
the way that I did the research to learn who
they were. And so since that time, Dr. Bruce,
who is an urban sociologist and a faculty
member at UC Davis has begun to write a book
about his grandfather. And Dr. Bruce shared
with me that there were three of them, three
boys, three grandsons. One, he's not sure
where he is.
One was killed, and he's the only one left.
And then he told me that he grew up in the
brownstone that his grandparents owned in
New York and he just sold it. And all I could
see was dollar signs. It's like, Dr. Bruce,
you made a lot of money selling that brownstone
didn't you? And so we kind of tried to keep
in touch because I know he has documents that
he's not going to let me see until his book
is published. But I did email him and say,
I need some more contemporary photographs.
Do you have any pictures? So he did send me
this one of his grandmother standing on the
steps.
And I said, I want a photograph of your great
aunt Bertie Henrietta Haynes. Now Bertie was
the first African-American to graduate from
SSA. Bertie Henrietta Haynes. And so I've
written about her in the Social Service Review
but I can't find a photograph of her. And
Dr. Bruce said, I may have a photograph but
I don't know what she looked like. So I'm
not sure that we'll ever get this information
but I also know that Dr. Bruce is holding
things pretty close so we'll see what happens.
The National Urban League was a social work
organization and it was founded to help African-Americans
who were moving from the rural south to centers
in the north to learn to live in cities, to
adjust to life in cities. You may not know
this, but when you grow up on farms-- and
I did-- you work until you can't see. It's
dark, you really can't see. And then you get
up early in the morning and you do it all
over again. But when people move to cities
there was suddenly all this leisure time.
There was a different way of living.
And so what the National Urban League tried
to do was to help people to organize their
lives in a way that was productive to help
them to find employment, housing, to develop
social services, etc. That's what the National
Urban League was founded to do. George Haynes
was also a member of the Alpha Phi Alpha fraternity.
And I'm telling you that because it is really
important to know African-American sororities
and fraternities if you are looking at services
in local communities.
Because all of those organizations have national
service mandates. So sometimes our agencies
run out of resources. Creative social workers
who are trying to help people meet their needs
go to those agencies and organizations that
exist. We need to know what they are and what
they do. And those Greek letter organizations
provide social services. They have a national
service mandate, they have to. We have to
help them to direct those services. We can
do it from inside or we can do it as not members
of those organizations.
But it's important that we know what they
are. And if you know that-- the Alpha Phi
Alpha fraternity was founded in 1906, it was
the first African-American Greek letter organization
founded at Cornell. Most of them were at Howard
but that one was at Cornell. And he was not
one of the original founders but he was one
of the earliest members. And if you look at
the history of the National Urban League and
you look at who the executive directors have
been historically, you'd be hard pressed not
to find an Alpha in those leadership positions.
So think about that.
Anybody want to add anything? Any Alpha Phi
Alpha fraternity men in this room?
AUDIENCE: Yep.
IRIS CARLTON-LANEY: So usually when I talk
about this and I put this man and another
one on, there's always a member of that fraternity
in the room who has a lot to say. This is
Victoria Earl Matthews. So when I show these
photographs to my students and I'm talking
about African-American social welfare pioneers,
and they see Victoria Earl Matthews and they
say, well, that's common. I thought you were
talking about African-American pioneers. And
I am. That's cause race is a social construct.
But OK.
And I know you all talk about that, and you
can talk about that later, I won't. So she
founded the White Rose Home for Working Girls.
Not working girls, but, working girls. OK.
The White Rose Home with a settlement house.
So African-American women who were personal
servants and live-in maids often had one day
off a month. So they lived with the people
they served. So they didn't have housing,
they just had this one day off. The White
Rose Home became that space for these women
to spend that one day.
And they could get their mail there and they
could just kind of go there and kind of chill
and hang out that one day that they had off.
And so the White Rose Home provided lectures
and a library. In fact, by the time the White
Rose Home closed, its library was so extensive
that it became a part of the Schomburg Collection
in the New York Public Library. Would you
like to add anything? Anybody? How much time
do I have? I have how much time? So I'll go
on. OK. So Marcus Garvey.
So we generally think we know something about
Marcus Garvey. But unless you know about the
Universal Negro Improvement Association, you
don't know much about Marcus Garvey. And if
you look at community organizing and models
for community organizing, and you look at
the UNIA, you see kind of the perfect community
organization. It's like community organizing
scholarship could have looked at what Garvey
did and the UNIA and then written what community
organizing ought be. Because he modeled it.
Marcus Garvey was brilliant. Now, see Marcus
Garvey wore plumes. It doesn't take much for
people to decide to devalue you and minimize
you. So when you're parading through Harlem
with plumes on it's like-- he had a tremendous
following. And the scholarship that you see
that says, a few thousand, is really questionable.
And they were not only working class but they
were middle class and upper middle class people
who were members of the Garvey movement. And
of course there are still lots of Garveyites
across the country in most communities today.
Some of you may remember Mark Battle, who
was a pioneer in our profession. I did not
know until he passed away that his name was
Marcus Garvey Battle. His parents were Garveyites.
That helps you to understand a bit about who
he was because it gives you a lot of information
that you may not ordinarily have unless you
know who Garveyites were and their influence.
Is there anything anybody would like? Yes.
AUDIENCE: Mark Battle was the president of
NASW for 20 years.
IRIS CARLTON-LANEY: Yes. Did you hear? President
of NASW for 20 years. Very active with the
council on social work education as well.
Because I think I'm running out of time I'll--
unless you want to add something about Marcus
Garvey. So don't think back to Africa movement,
think Universal Negro Improvement Association.
Through that organization Marcus Garvey decided
he will build a doll factory that would make
black dolls because he thought it was important
that little black kids had black dolls to
play with. We're talking about 1915, '16,
'17.
Now I don't know about Chicago. In Durham,
North Carolina I am hard pressed to find a
black doll in 2016. Having positive images
of yourself contributes a lot to self-esteem,
self-image, self-worth, self-concepts, but
social workers know that. This is his second
wife, Amy. His first wife's name was Amy as
well. He liked Amy's apparently. His first
wife, Amy, and this Amy were friends. So his
first wife, her name was Amy Ashwood Garvey.
And they were married for about three years.
They divorced in 1922. And in 1922 he married
this Amy. This one. So this Madam C.J. Walker.
Now I love to talk about Madam C.J. Walker
because, again, we think we know who she was.
This woman made a million dollars, plus, because
she created skin and hair care products for
African-American women. She did not create
the straightening comb but she did create
skin and hair care products. Which was good.
But in addition she organized the Madam Walker
Beauty Culturists League.
So she gave employment opportunities. She
allowed African-American women to be independent
business women. She gave them job opportunities,
job options. Options to being washerwomen
and personal servants. They could become independent
business women selling those products. And
they sold those products door to door. And
Madam Walker was training sales women and
organizing sales women two years before Mary
Kay was born. And she was giving prizes to
those organizations that contributed the most
to their communities.
She taught these women to not just be independent
business women, but to be political in what
they did. To understand the politics that
surrounded them, that dictated their opportunities.
And to organize in ways that confronted that
oppression. Anything? Yes.
AUDIENCE: I've been where Madam C.J. Walker,
that is not her real name.
IRIS CARLTON-LANEY: Her name was Sarah Breedlove.
AUDIENCE: And then she changed her name to
Madam because when she went to the banks and
conducted her business she wanted people to
know that she meant business. [INAUDIBLE]
changed her name to Madam [INAUDIBLE] respect
her--
IRIS CARLTON-LANEY: Absolutely. Thank you.
Lugenia Burns Hope. Lugenia Burns Hope started
the Atlanta Neighborhood Union. Again, a community
organization in Atlanta. She was married to
John Hope who was the president of Morehouse
College. And she used the men's students at
Morehouse to help her organize the communities.
She also started the first social work education
program for African-Americans in Atlanta,
the year before Atlanta University opened
in 1920.
And her entire curriculum was kind of picked
up and became Atlanta University's social
work curriculum. Another thing was, the Highlander
Folk Center, which is a community development
training retreat area in Tennessee. The Highlander
Folk Center is still there. The Highlander
Folk Center also used her strategies to help
community organizers during the 1960s. The
Highlander Folk Center started around 1932
around labor issues, still exists and has
kind of changed its focus as community needs
have changed.
Would anybody like to add anything? This is
Eugene Kinckle Jones, the second executive
director of the National Urban League. Eugene
Kinckle Jones is one of the founders of the
Alpha Phi Alpha fraternity. Eugene Jones,
unlike George Hanes, if you noticed the photograph
of George Hanes, while he's handsome, he looks
a bit anal. Well Eugene Jones, on the other
hand, was middle class, he had professional
parents, far more suave and sophisticated.
I also think he had a nice mustache. But he
was far more comfortable interacting with
people who were different than George Hanes.
And because of that he was able, I think,
to make a few more inroads for the National
Urban League. He was the second executive
director. And Eugene Kinckle Jones was also
a member of FDR's black cabinet.
