Hi, I'm Nikki La Croce and you're listening
to the WhoTheF*ck? Podcast. Inquisitive, authentic,
unapologetic. A safe space for self-exploration,
questioning the status quo, and finding out
who the fuck you are.
Hey gang, you're listening to the latest episode
of the WhoTheF*ck? Podcast. Our guest today
is Rob Lawless, and if you're not yet familiar
with Rob and his mission to spend an hour
with 10,000 different people, I'm excited
to introduce him and his work to you. Rob
created Robs10kFriends with no particular
motive, other than to expand his own connections
and open other people’s minds to expanding
theirs. With each meeting, there is no structure
or agenda – it is simply two people getting
to know each other. So rather than taking
our usual approach to the interview, this
episode is going to be a bit of a hybrid,
taking a page from Rob’s book and letting
the conversation lead where it may, without
the typical structure.
We connected when I randomly reached out to
him after seeing his interview on The Kelly
Clarkson Show and I’m excited to have him
on the podcast today!
Rob, why don't you share a quick summary of
what inspired you to start "Rob's 10k Friends"
and where you are currently in the process?
Then we can learn a little bit more about
each other.
Yeah. Works for me. Thank you for having me
on the show. I appreciate it.
For sure. I'm excited.
So yeah, I started this project in November
of 2015 and it was kind of born out of two
main things. One was my time at Penn state.
I was really involved as a student there.
I was involved in a bunch of different clubs
and activities. And so despite that being
a campus of 40,000 people, it became very
much like a home to me. I was always running
into people that I knew on the streets or
out of the bars and whatnot, and I really
enjoyed that atmosphere. And then it was kind
of taken away when I graduated and went out
into the real world. So part of it was me
wanting to recapture that sense of community.
And then the other thing was I majored in
finance in school, but I minored in accounting
and entrepreneurship. And for me, like accounting
and finance for the safe, secure route, entrepreneurship
was the dream.
And I always felt like I could do my own thing
and be successful in that. And so after going
into finance, I did consulting for Deloitte.
I kind of still felt inside of myself that
I wanted to try my own path. And so taking
that passion for entrepreneurship and that
passion for community from Penn state, I kind
of came up with this idea to try and meet
10,000 people. And I just thought it would
put me on a really fun adventure that I, with
like modern day platforms like Instagram,
that if people were interested in it, then
I could turn that into my career as opposed
to sitting behind a computer for the next
30 years.
Yeah.
So we're on that journey still seeing if we
can make that work.
Yeah, it's super relatable to me because actually,
I went to school for documentary filmmaking.
I graduated with a diploma and the recession
hit. So it was sort of like, "What do you
plan to do with your life now?" And much like
you, I fell into what was probably a safer,
more secure route. I ended up in the tech
space. I actually, I saw that you were at
RJ metrics at some point and I used to work
at a startup where one of our former VPs actually
ended up going to RJ metrics. And so when
I saw you, when I saw your interview, just
the concept alone of what you were doing really
resonated with me because the whole reason
that I started this podcast was to create
more connection with people. The tagline that
I have is that this is a podcast designed
to create connection, fuel compassion, and
activate change.
And so my goal is to talk to people who are
going to have unique and/or hard conversations
that people aren't having; to try to build,
like you said, more community. Partially for
my own fulfillment because again, like you,
I really just love creating those relationships
with people. I went to a much smaller school.
I went to Quinnipiac up in Connecticut, if
you've ever heard of it. Our polls are very
popular, but you know, I grew up in the same
area, I believe really close to where you
did. I lived in Bucks County, in the Doylestown
area most of my life. Were you in North Penn
area? Is that where I think I saw?
The high school is like 10 minutes from my
house, but I grew up in Norristown.
One of the things that really drew me to you
and your mission was the fact that it's so
bold, right? 10,000 people is...a lot of people.
And I didn't have the context necessarily
around why that came to be, particularly with
Penn State. I know plenty of people who went
there, obviously growing up in Pennsylvania.
And I know what a large campus it is. And
it's really cool to see how you transitioned
something that really impacted you in your
college years into adulthood because making
friends as an adult is arguably really challenging
because you're not in all of these forced
social situations. Like that's for me why
I wanted to build more connection as well.
So I, I'm glad to know that we have that in
common. It makes me feel more like part of
a community of people who also want the same
thing, which is cool.
Yeah. That's nice.
Yeah. So, so I'm kind of curious because I
don't want it to turn into just like a full
on interview and I have just a ton of questions
unrelated to just really diving into who we
are as people. Do you have a specific kind
of starting point for people since you don't
usually, I guess, kind of meet them before
you meet them? Right. So, do you just kind
of dive in and say "Hi, I'm Rob. Hi, I'm Nikki.
Let's go."
Kind of, I mean it's almost like with us it
was very natural when we first talked, you
know, we were just like jumping on the line
and start talking about whatever. I'm always
curious, although it doesn't, I mean maybe
like 50% of the time, I'm just curious of
how people found my project to begin with
because I'm always having so many conversations
in DMs before I actually meet that person.
And so for sure I rarely I do any research
on people before I meet them. But when I meet
people in person, it's always like, are you
originally from this area? And then that kind
of helps me build out the story of their life.
Cause it's like if you're not, then where
are you from and how did you get here? If
you are, have you always been here? Have you
left and if so, why?
And what brought you back?
Exactly. Yeah. I think now a lot of it has
been like how is the quarantine where you
are? Because over the last two months I've
talked to people from like 40 different countries
and like 25 different States. And so I hit
a lot of different geographical areas.
It might be more more convenient at least
from that perspective, as far as being able
to rally through various geographies. But
I'm sure that it doesn't really fit the bill
when it comes to actually creating that connection
in a a three dimensional realm.
Yeah, it's much different. And it's funny,
like here, my setup. We just moved into this
place like a month and a half ago, and I'm
moving out back to my parents in Philly in
two weeks. And so my stuff, like my suitcase
is unpacked and that's the printer. And so,
I'm in a two bedroom apartment in Hoboken
and like my window faces a brick wall. And
so my light on my face is from the lamp. But
today the first guy that I talked to, his
window was behind him and so he was back-lit
and I could barely see his face and what he
looked like. And those are just some of the
struggles you deal with when you're connecting
with people through technology as opposed
to in person. It's like some of the experience
is taken away, whether it's the back-lit face
or it's the connection is unstable and it
goes out and we sound like a robot and you
can't hear what they're saying. So yeah, but
it has been awesome too really. I just got
off the phone with someone from Pakistan.
I move a lot to a lot of different places
now in this time.
Yeah, that's really cool. Especially because
some of people that I've been connecting with
on Instagram, like you said, is a really great
platform for just gaining exposure and not
even from just purely a marketing standpoint,
but having that visibility into people who
are not locally near you. And I've connected
with people from, I want to say Jordan was
the one place that I was really surprised
to hear as a location. And so, I always say
to people, part of why I want to do this is
because I really believe that there is more
that brings us together then that which separates
us. And If we can highlight that and make
people understand that this isn't me versus
you, this isn't us versus them. We are all
people and the quarantine right now, obviously
the pandemic being something that a lot of
people are referring to as a great equalizer.
I understand in many cases that it's not [the
great equalizer] for obvious reasons as far
as inequalities, but as far as just being
human and having the emotions that go with
this, in a lot of ways I, I believe we're
all feeling very similar and that inability
to actually engage with people in person is
challenging. I mean, I work from home typically
for my day job anyhow, so that's not too much
of a change for me. But if I wanted to go
into the office or go to a restaurant or literally
do anything that involves social interaction,
I could go do it. And now it is trying to
kind of augment the way our life is now with
those genuine interactions. And it's not necessarily
that it's unnatural in the way the conversations
flow but it's definitely a little bit daunting
when it comes to how are you going to relate
to those people, if you are building a relationship
that you intend to continue after the fact?
Because it's almost like we're all online
dating at this point. If we're meeting people,
what is it going to be like when I see you
in person? Are we going to have the same dynamic?
Will our conversations flow the same way?
Do we have the same perspective on things
once we're out of this weird bubble that we're
in right now?
Yeah, it's very, very interesting and who
knows when will be able to go back and, yeah,
my roommates and I were just talking about
this. It almost just seems weird because even
if we start to see people gathering together,
it's like you start to question like, well
why are you getting together? Like is that
safe? And it makes, it makes me question when
as a society will be comfortable with seeing
each other interact again and be in large
group settings. Cause I think the last couple
of months where you become so conditioned
to I guess fear that in in a like an obviously
rightful way like yeah, like you're trying
to stop a pandemic but yeah, it's just become
something I think that we're so used to like
not doing right now that it would be interesting
to see when we get back to doing it comfortably.
Totally. And I wonder too, one of the things
that has always been really fun for myself
and my wife, we actually met in Philly at
the TLA, at an Adele concert before anybody
knew who Adele was cause she was playing at
the TLA, which holds like a couple hundred
people maybe. And concerts are just so meaningful.
They bring people together around music, which
is just so universal to begin with. And I
think that's where a lot of people who do
maybe not think the same way can come together
and have something that unifies them. And
thinking about how live music that scene's
going to totally change - and sporting events.
Like you said, when are we going to feel like
it's lifted? And we can resume our lives because
going out and seeing people in masks all the
time, I mean, we're wearing them too.
So I'm out in Seattle and we got hit with
like the big wave to begin with. Right? You're
in Hoboken, so you're near New York, you're
getting a lot of it now. So when it started,
it felt very disarming. But now we're going
to the grocery store and we have masks and
people are wearing gloves and they have all
these, you know, coverage for the, for the
cashiers and things like that. But when you
can't see somebody's face, when you see like
this, you see there, they're like eyes and
forehead. It's, I can't decide how unsettling
it is because some people have those masks
that have like faces on them, which is just
utterly alarming. And I'm like, I don't know
if you're just an average person or if you're
going to hold this place up.
Right.
And then the other piece of it, and I said
this to my wife yesterday, was I think people
are learning to smile with their eyes more
because you're trying to like let people in
without being able to show that typical sign
of affection that you would show.
Or even just meeting people in person and
being like, "Hey, I'm going to stay a comfortable
six feet away from you." It's just a very
bizarre dynamic that changes the way that
it will be in the future. To your point, like
I don't see it being an all of a sudden, okay,
this is lifted and we're going to get out
there. We're going to be around people anymore.
It feels like it's going to be a bit more
challenging like you said. So I'm excited
and nervous for that I guess because I don't
want to lose that feeling of comfort that
we have around people. Something that clearly
drives you to do what you do and I feel similarly
drives me to do what I do, but I, you know,
we're the people that are putting ourselves
out there saying "meet us, talk to us". We
want to hang out and there's other people
who are already sort of closed off. So I wonder
what that's going to be like for them.
Same. Yeah. And I think for the purposes of
my project, even after social distancing and
whatnot, and I'll still continue to be virtual
or stay virtual for a bit past that because
it's funny because my project used to be such
a nice headline for people like, Oh guys going
around meeting people and now it's like that
would be such a negative headline if it was
man going out and meeting 10,000 people in
person. And it's like, shoot, I was not expecting
that.
They're like, quarantine that guy. Get him
out of it.
Yeah, exactly. So I've tried to like I stopped
doing the project on March 11th, which was
a couple of days before. It really felt like
everything started to hit the fan, at least
here in the Northeast. And then I think I'll
have to go a little bit past. But fortunately
for me, I still get to meet people and I don't
think my audience minds, if they see me next
to that person in person or if they see me
next to them virtually.
Yeah, I think people who follow me are more
so interested in the stories of the people
I'm meeting and not so much how I'm meeting
them or whatnot or the things that I, I care
more about. But that's, it's nice.
Yeah. Well, so when you think about how this
all came about for you, was there anything
that you we're afraid of and meeting other
people? I thought about this when I was looking
through just the ton of people that you've
met already. Actually how many people have
you met already before you even go there?
Do you, I'm sure you have a number?
You are 3,396
That's a great number. 3,396 here we are.
Yeah. So that's crazy. And that's over the
course of about five years. You were saying
you started in 2015?
Yeah, November will be five years and then
eight months after I started it I took it
full time. So this July will be four years
full time.
Well I have plenty of questions on that. Maybe
offline. But I kind of feel like as a female
I would be more apprehensive to be meeting
just a bunch of random strangers. Do you think
your gender plays into your comfortability
with being willing to just meet complete strangers
or like especially if you don't know a lot
about them to begin with? Like that to me
is one of the prominent thoughts that I had.
Oh yeah, for sure. I think like obviously
being like a straight white men doing this
project, there is like a bit of privilege
to go out and not have to think about things
that other people would have to think of.
I don't necessarily, I don't necessarily think
that that means other people of different
genders or different races couldn't go out
and do the same thing because I think at a
point my credibility came from the number
of people that I've met and not me as a person.
Like in the beginning, yeah, it was easier,
but then people started to be like, Oh, well
he met my friends so I'll meet him or I saw
him through this news thing, so I'll meet
him. So it's like yeah, there's, there's both
aspects to it. But yes, I mean I've driven
across the country six different times and
on each of those drives I've stayed with strangers
in places like El Paso, Salt Lake City, Las
Vegas, San Diego, a lot of different places.
And I'm always aware in those situations.
And also when I go out to meet people. But
I do think that it's something that I think
less about, but I am still aware of at the
same time. And for my actual meetings with
people, a lot of times I'm meeting them in
public places like coffee shops or bars or
something like that. And so I think it's yeah,
keeping your wits about you. And it's also
a lot of times the people that I meet with
are prequalified in a way, where they found
me through someone else that talked to me
or something like that.
Yeah, that makes sense.
Just something I keep in mind, but I don't
think something that is always on my mind.
Yeah. So, you said you drove cross country
so six times, so that's a lot. Was that because
you were meeting people across different places
and it was just kind of part of the adventure
to go from point a to point B and meet people
in between?
So I was living in the Northern liberties
neighborhood affiliate when I started this
project and the first year and a half were
there. And then like I was laid off eight
months into starting the project and then
I had like 11 more months on my lease in Philly.
And so I finished out my least. And filling
in that ended, I knew I couldn't afford to
continue paying rent and doing this full time.
So I left Philly, like I put my stuff back
in my parents in North town, but my roommate
from Penn state had invited me to go stay
with him in long beach, California. He had
an extra bedroom. His apartment was like he
could afford it on his own. So he just said,
Hey, if you want to come out here, I can host
you and you can meet people on the West coast.
And my older brother had moved up to New York
city and his car, which he had already paid
off, is just sitting at our parents' place.
So actually, no, it was with me in Philly
and I would just use it when I would go back
and forth to visit my parents. And so I asked
him if I could take that and he said yes.
And so
It was really just a commute more than anything
else to get from Philly to LA because I needed
a car out in Los Angeles and I couldn't afford
to fly out there and have the car shipped.
And so the best option was to drive and it
also just kind of made sense towards the storyline
of what I'm doing that I would like stop in
different cities and meet people. So I, yeah,
I would like just plan out routes and see
where I had friends in certain cities and
stay with them. I had some hotel points leftover
from my consulting days, so I'd always booked
like a random cheap hotel, like outside of
the city limits so I could stretch the points
further. Yeah. And then I would stay with
strangers who like I would, it's funny to
me because I think I rode trip much differently
than a lot of other people would. Like I didn't
know my route until the week before. I was
leaving her a few days before I was leaving
and sometimes the route changed in the middle
of the trip. Mmm. But I would just throw up
on Instagram, I schedule and look for people
to meet and sometimes it was people would
host me. Sorry. Just stay with them in whatever
city.
That's super cool. What is the hardest part
about doing what you're doing full-time?
Yeah. The hardest part about doing it full
time. I think for me it's like the lack of
stability. It's also, it's like it's a pro
and a con. Like by doing this full time, like
I'm 29 a lot of my friends have gotten married
and they're settling down with their houses
and their dogs and whatnot. And so, and I'm
just so far away from that stage of life because
I've chosen to put my time into this and do
something that requires a little bit more
freedom for the time being. So I think it's
that, cause there's some times where it'd
be nice to have financial stability. Mmm.
But in my situation, like I have to believe
that that's going to come at some point and
just continue to work towards it and enjoy
the journey.
Like it's very much having a lot of faith
in yourself. And so sometimes it's, it feels
like, at the end of last year when I was reached
out to by the Kelly Clarkson show and also
in that time, like the New York post had written
an article about me and CBS New York did a
story that was getting spread around the country
and is easy to do the project in those times.
It's difficult to do it in the times when
like the number of people who were following
you starts dropping and stuff and like the
number of partnerships dries up because there's
a pandemic and those types of things.
Yeah.
It's like mentally you have to, in my situation,
I have to be prepared to do a year of this
project or something like that with absolutely
no growth. But believing that the things that
I'm doing now are going to play out, I will
be able to harvest them down the road. So
I think it's staying motivated in that sense.
And then the reality of making sacrifices
and that some of those things that other people
have, you don't get, at least for the time
being.
Yeah, that's totally fair. I can understand
that. I've been unemployed at points in my
career prior to now a couple of times. And
I think one of the biggest challenges is exactly
what you're pointing out, which is having
faith that it will turn up and that it will
become what you want it to. And I think that
your way of approaching it and acknowledging
that that is part of the journey is something
that we all have to try a little bit harder
to do. It's not easy and it's super uncomfortable,
which is the hard reality behind it. Right?
It's very uncomfortable. But if you're able
to drive with your passion, then I see it
becoming something really huge and that's
what you have to live for. Right? That's the
fulfillment factor.
For sure. Yeah. And then it's like, I think
at the point that it does work out all of
the, you forget the pain of what it was like.
And so I think it all becomes worth it. It's
just getting to that point. But yeah, it's
a lot of faith and I would say going through
the struggle has made me feel more like I
will earn whatever does come to me and I would
rather go down this path and be able to feel
that way then to have just done it. And it
worked from the beginning and all these companies,
one of the partners knew like, I don't think
there's any like glory without the struggle
in a way.
I like that. That's super relatable I think
to a lot of people, especially right now because
there's so many artists, there's so many,
you know, stylists, there's any myriad of
people right now who aren't getting the business
that they would typically get and it's going
to be painstaking for a while. But there is
this outcome that everybody's sort of anticipating,
which is if you keep working at it while you're
in a downturn, then you have the potential
to really gain that much more momentum potentially
when there is the uptick also like you don't
dry up when everything else does and that's
the hardest part, at least for me, that's
how I've been feeling. This is the most motivated
I've been to do anything in a really long
time and it's because I get to interact with
people and learn more and hear their stories
and your story is something that is arguably
one of the more relatable things I've really
been able to encounter, especially because
you're actually the first person that I'm
interviewing that I don't know yet.
Nice.
In some way, shape or form, whether it's a
small way or a big way and so like having
this conversation with you, for me, is a milestone.
You're really, to me, a level of inspiration
for where I can get to as far as holding onto
that hope and that desire and that need to
create this life that you want and not something
that's prescribed to you, which sounds like
we sort of had that similar mindset growing
up. That this is the path that I need to go
down and this is the thing that I'm going
to do and as long as I do that, everything
will be okay. And it's like nobody told us
that fulfillment was part of that. Nobody
was like, you got to make sure you feel really
good when you're doing it. You know? And I
think that that's a really big miss today.
That's something that we have to uncover on
our own and to the detriment, a little bit
of the education system and focusing so much
on like, this is the hard and fast way that
things are done. Do it this way, follow your
path, get there, move forward. You know? And
you get so caught up in the rhythm of what
you're expected to do that you start to lose
sight of what you actually care about and
want to do. And sometimes those dovetail but
not always.
Yeah, I think it's very interesting. And also
it just reminded me, I'm listening to this
podcast called the happiness lab where they
talk about the science behind happiness.
Oh, that's cool. I haven't heard of that one
yet.
It's cool. It's like this Yale professor who's,
just talks about like scientifically what
makes people happy and talking about people
losing sight of what they truly want to do.
And also like in the podcast they talk about
the fact that people sometimes they think
they want things that don't actually serve
them. Like money is a really good example.
I guess the main example, and they were talking
about how like people think that they want
so much money to be comfortable and stuff.
Then people who get a lot of money are really
sad because they can't relate to all of the
people around them who don't have it. And
it puts them in this weird position. And so
I've tried to to think about that in my life
too. Like what do I want in life or what do
I want from this project? And I always say
like, I want a house no bigger than the one
that I grew up in. Or like a modest car and
just my wife and kids and the time to be able
to invest into hanging out with them. And
just, I think for me a big thing is relatability
being able to relate to the most amount of
people I think is cooler than having the most
money because then you actually, you get to
enjoy things with people as opposed to just
having like this thing that people aspire
to that it doesn't connect you.
That's a really beautiful sentiment. I couldn't
agree more. I feel very similarly as far as,
you know, I don't need the mega mansion and
the yacht and all the things I, there's a
level comfort that I would like to achieve
financially. So to your point, I don't have
to think about it. Like, that's sort of the
threshold for me is I just need enough money
that I don't have to worry about having money.
That's like the dream and it doesn't need
to be an excess. And those relationships that
we build over the years in our lives are just
so foundational. I've said to people I even
work with today that my dream is not to create,
you know, a legacy that I need to be micromanaging
a company of millions of people being, you
know, one of the richest humans in the world.
Like that doesn't interest me at all.
I work in software. And so for a while I felt
like, okay, well then maybe I'll just work
with some friends and build an app and then
we'll cash out on the app and then that'll
be the pile of money that we live from and
that'll be great. And that's all I'll need.
And the more I thought about that, and I've,
you know, I've kicked off some ideas. I've
had some LLCs - I just haven't been as invested
in them emotionally because I didn't feel
connected to it. It felt like I'm trying to
get money at the end of this. It didn't feel
like I'm trying to create something that I
feel, I mean obviously I want to feel proud
of, but something that I feel like really
connected to or fulfilled by and like you
can solve somebody's problem and you can make
money from solving that problem, but it doesn't
necessarily mean that solving that problem
gave you some greater experience or good or
feeling. And when I really think about my
own experience, like I would rather know that
when my time comes, and I'm no longer here,
that people can look back and say, I appreciate
the relationship that we had, whether you
know it was professional or personal or familial.
There's something there that I want people
to be able to say, yeah, this was a good person
who had good intentions. And I want to be
able to look at people and say the same thing.
We're not perfect. Nobody's gonna get it.
All right. Some people suck. Sometimes I'm
one of them. You know, we all have our moments,
but when we set that aside and allow ourselves
to see each other for who we are, genuinely,
there's just a really different dynamic that
happens. And that power dynamic that you're
talking about with money is so, so much what
drives society today and people like you and
myself, and the Brene Browns and the Glennon
Doyles and like all of these people, I mean
doc Shepherd's podcast, he interviews just
so many people of different backgrounds like
you, you pull in all these people who are
relatively like-minded thinkers and you start
to ask yourself like, why aren't these the
people in charge?
These are the people we want to be leading
us in the direction of a greater good for
humanity and not focusing on what, what is
that dollar sign? How do we get one more penny
out of these people? Because I'm a firm believer
that if you do the right things, the rest
will come. Similar to how you described your
own journey. I feel like at a macro level
that also applies.
For sure. No, I totally agree with that.
So I don't know what's what else is on your
plate since we're, I'm, I'm flying by the
seat of my pants here, Rob.
Cool. well I'm curious, I just was curious
earlier, who is the VP that went to RJ from
your company? Oh yeah. Finance.
Yeah. Yeah, that's funny. He yeah, he and
I worked together at a company now called
phenom. But previously I'm momentous and I
was there before the name changed, so I was
there very early on and, and we parted ways
I think roughly the same time. So I actually
worked with his sister then at my following
job, so I knew them pretty well. And yeah.
So you were at RJ metrics and then you just
dove right into this?
Yes, I, I started this while I was there and
then went into this after they were bought
out cause I was laid off and they were bought
out.
Oh, nice. Oh yeah, that was Magento, right?
Yes. Yeah. But it was good.
That's great though, that you had the opportunity
to commit to this full time. Was that a hard
decision for you to make? To actually say
like, I'm gonna put it on the line and this
is where I'm going to go with it.
No, surprisingly not.
That makes me happy.
I think that's just something I've learned
about my personality. Like I make big life
decisions I guess career wise on a whim or
like, I dunno, I guess I just trust myself
because when I was at Deloitte, the program
that I was in, I was a strategy and operations
consultant for them and you do two years as
an analyst and then one is a consultant and
then you go get your MBA full time and then
they pay for it. So you commit two years back
to the firm. But it's like a hard program
to get into. And then they're like, one of
the only companies that I know of that is
covering the full cost of MBAs and I from
our days of them like going to the firm and
seeing if that was where we wanted to commit
to, they would show the schools that they're
that there are people went to for the MBAs.
And it was like Columbia, UVA, Wharton, Harvard.
And so that seemed like a really attractive
thing. And I thought for sure that I was going
to go down that path. But when I heard about
RJ metrics through a consultant that I worked
with on a project in Kentucky, I learned more
about it and like the data analytics space
was really interesting at the time and it
kind of satisfied that entrepreneurship bug
within me. Mmm. And I remember like I, I had
to pay $5,000 to Deloitte to leave because
that was part of a bonus that I would only
get to keep if I stayed there for two years.
And it was only a year and three months.
Oh, it's harsh. Yeah.
I had to pay $5,000 to leave to take a pay
cut, go to this risky tech startup. And for
me it was like, yeah, of course. Yeah, that
makes sense.
I mean it seemed to play out well enough for
you that you are self-employed at this point.
You know, you mentioned some of the challenges
with where we're at today in the economy,
obviously playing a role in that, but it's,
it sounds like you've sort of always had in
mind that you needed to get to kind of take
the next thing to figure out where that's
going to lead you.
Yeah, and I think people, I think people see
those types of decisions is more black and
white than they actually are. Like someone
might look at me and be like left everything,
like put everything on the line to go into
this project full time. But in reality it's
like I decided to do this full time and if
it didn't go well in those first couple of
months, I would have interviewed back at Deloitte
and said, Hey, I took a chance to go to this
tech startup. I started my own project. Here's
what I learned by interacting with all of
these people and here's how I can apply it
back to the firm and I have experienced with
working here before. So it's like I think
when people think of you going into your own
thing full time, they feel like every other
option is removed from the table.
But those are all still there as fallbacks
and I'm lucky to have had a good education
and a good start to my career and also a support
system where I've always felt that like rock
bottom had a big pillow on top of it where
if I got even still at like if I ran completely
out of money, which has come close a couple
of times in the project, I got over the fact
that that was something that I should be afraid
of. Obviously it's uncomfortable, but if I,
if I ran out of money today, I could put up
a GoFundMe and be like, Hey, if you followed
my project, you know, I've been doing this
for a long time. I ran out of money. If you
could help me for a month or so. I'm sure
some people would contribute to that or yeah,
I had to put out a story, "Hey I ran out of
money. If anyone has a part time job or a
full time opportunity, they could connect
me with...", like I have that as an option
as well.
A network.
Yeah.
You have probably arguably one of the bigger
networks that people have. So that has to
be a bonus. And I think speaks to the effectiveness
of what you're doing, too. Is that it's beyond
just creating those personal connections,
these are supporters of the business that
you're, you're running essentially, right?
It's hard because it's a project, but it's
also, I mean, foundationally, this is your
job, this is what you're doing to create a
livelihood for yourself.
Correct.
So there are some parallels between like I'm
meeting people with no intention, but if it's
so happens that down the line they can become
a resource or an opportunity, then that's
really just all for the better. And I think
validates what you've been doing and why it's
important.
Absolutely. Yeah. And I do, I think of that
with every connection. I'm happy to meet with
people whether they turn into someone that
like takes me into like something that could
turn the project into the next level or if
we just get to meet and chat. And I think
because of that, authentically I believe in
that and, and show up for people like that,
that that's how those things work. I don't
know because, I think sometimes people do
things authentically, but then it's like when
it really comes down to being authentic, it's
like, Oh well actually I wanted something
out of it.
Totally.
I feel like for me, like I've always understood
and live that way that I am going to meet
people, whether it turns into something or
not, I'm just very curious to see what happens.
And I can say from my project, like the fact
that I have had partnerships in that it has
been covered by some bigger press sources.
Like if I'm looking at the data of it, it's
trending in what seems to be a direction where
it will be able to stabilize at some point.
But I just don't know. It's kind of going
into the darkness.
Yeah, it's a bit ambiguous right now, but
I think most entrepreneurs feel that way.
I wouldn't have fancied myself an entrepreneur
prior to becoming an adult in the real world,
but I realized very quickly that I should
not be working for other people. I just don't
really vibe with the corporate concept. I
think it's a bit antiquated necessary in some
ways. Absolutely. I mean, companies are able
to provide us with a lot of resources now
that we wouldn't have otherwise given the
pandemic, but I also feel really strongly
that there's so much value in the smaller
business space because you, it is more intimate
and you do get to know people more personally
and everybody doesn't feel as disposable.
When I think about how we grow as people in
with that context, like it's not easy to feel
like you're starting something new and that
you can't really chart your path. But like
you said, it is the journey and it's figuring
out like what are the good things, what are
the bad things about what's happening right
now? How do you become this version of yourself
that you want to be? And I think one of the
questions that has been sort of floating through
my mind as we've been talking is what do you
feel has really come out of this for you personally
more than anything else? Like is it just getting
to know people who are so different and having
that worldview or is there like a specific
moment that resonates with you as sort of
like, this is like just a monumental moment
for me in meeting somebody and having a new
perspective?
I think it's like both to an extent. It's
cause every person I meet with changes my
life in some way or another. Like, it might
just be like, sometimes I'll meet with someone.
For example, I met this guy the other week
and he is in high school when we were talking
about music and I was like, what is popular
amongst high schoolers right now? And he told
me about this artist called No Name. And so
I looked the artist up and then there's a
song that she has that I ended up really liking,
so now I've been listening to it. So like
my life in a way was altered just by that
conversation with him. And it might just be
that I listened to that song for two weeks
and then I forget about it. Or it might be
something that I've listened to and years
down the road I'm still listening to it. But
like I wouldn't have found it if it wasn't
for him. And so when that happens, like in
trivial ways like that. Or I met a girl a
few weeks ago who was the victim of a mass
shooting in Serbia and she was shot seven
times and went into a coma.
Oh my gosh.
In her coma they had to amputate her leg and
she had nerve damage in her arm. So hearing
her story changed my life in a way where it
helped me understand what I should and should
not considered to be a problem. Like being
in a quarantine and, and being stressed about
partnerships when you have a big support system
and stuff is not that bad. Getting shot seven
times and losing your leg is, and even she
might be like, it's not that bad, but it's
much worse than like sitting at home with
the comforts of Netflix and stuff. And so
talking to people has given me a lot of reference
points for my life as to what I should and
should not be grateful for. Actually, I don't
think about what I should not be grateful
for, but it just makes you think about what
you should be grateful for. And I think when
you understand what the spectrum of life is
and where you fit on it, then you start to
be like, "Oh, I have this, this person doesn't
have this. I thought everyone had this." And
things like that.
And doing the project has just changed my,
I mean it's leading the direction of my life.
I never intended to live in Los Angeles, but
I went out there because I had a friend who
was willing to host me and I ended up staying
there for over three different periods of
time, a year and three months. And so now
I have a network of like 700 people in Los
Angeles and I feel very comfortable in that
city. And same here in like the New York city
area. I have like a network of probably like
400 people here and I feel very comfortable
in this environment. And like these are just
opportunities that have popped up because
I started the project, like my friend was
willing to host me there and now I had a friend
who was willing to host me here. And so sometimes
I'm just following the lead of it.
Yeah. Well, it's like where's life flowing
and just going with it and letting that happen.
I've become much more of a believer in that
mentality that you should just kind of follow
it as opposed to trying to resist it or construct
it to firmly because frankly it leads to disappointment
a lot of the time because we anticipate something
that will never be or could never be and not
because we're not trying, but I just think
there's 99% of the time you're going to have
a wrench thrown in your plan. And so what
do you do in that wrench is thrown in there?
I mean, when you were speaking about the woman
that you spoke to who had been shot and then
the coma, you know, it really resonates because
I've had a tremendous amount of trauma in
the last year that has sort of unfolded with
my wife and I, and there have been just a
multitude of things that have come out of
that where it started, this is like a really
hard reveal for me.
But it started with last March she was sexually
assaulted and I found her and I was in the
bar on the other side of the wall. And like
I had no idea what was happening. And there's
this reality that just all of a sudden clicked
for me about what is important and what is
not. And Julia Louis Dreyfus had a quote on
Dax Shepard's podcast that I just, I, I can't
forget which was, she had I think, gotten
nominated and won the Emmy [for VEEP] the
night before she found out that she had breast
cancer. And she said, when you experience
true fear, that's when you are able to understand
what's truly precious in life and it's not
money and it's not the things that you have.
It's really these experiences that you are
entrenched in and those people that get you
through it.
And when you describe, you know, rock bottom
as having a pillow on top of it. I like that
because I agree. It's something that you have
to be open to share these experiences that
haunt you, that hurt you, that create joy,
that create pain. Because by sharing that
we're able to create more understanding and
more compassion in this world. And that's
like, that was like the tip of the iceberg.
The following 11 months were also a myriad
of crazy things that like I couldn't even
begin to describe. And when it all sort of
tied up my wife and I have both been going
to therapy and I talk about this a lot on
my podcast because it is super transformative
when you start to not only reference the perspective
that you gain from other people, but also
reflect it back onto yourself and ask, you
know, why is it that I think this way?
Am I thinking about this with the most context?
Should I have more context to formulate my
opinion on this or how I feel about it? And
then also learning how to heal from those
things. The fact that this woman was willing
to share her story with you, that's part of
healing. That's sharing something that is
so, so personal and so painful, but she's
saying like, I want other people to understand.
I want people to see me for who I am and what
I've been through doesn't define me. But it's
also something that creates a better of humanity
that like, it's all relative, right? Like
being unemployed and not having money is stressful
as shit. I've been there like way too many
times, but you also have to think about, okay,
there's other people going through these types
of things and acknowledging that one isn't
necessarily more than the other.
It's all relative to our perspective and trying
not to minimize how we feel even if that relativity
makes it seem like that person's thing is
so much bigger. How could I possibly be complaining
about this? You can't be like, well, because
I could be getting shot today. Like there,
you know, like it's trying to kind of find
that balance in your own mind about like where
do you put the priority on that perspective
in a given moment is sort of how I see it.
Like if it's the moment that you're living
right now and you need to feel what you're
feeling, feel it, but also pause and give
yourself a chance to see that maybe it isn't
as bad as you thought or that if you know
these things about other people, there are
ways that you can help them.
Yeah, I totally agree. I wanted to ask, I
don't know if you share your background on
your podcast, but...
Go for it. I'm happy to. This is what makes
it a unique episode also.
I know you're from Bucks County, you went
to Quinnipiac in Connecticut.
Yep.
And then at some point you made your way to
Seattle, but what, like what has been your
path? Where did you go to high school? What
did you study in college? Where did you go
after that? How did you end up in Seattle
and then how did you start this podcast?
So I went to school at Central Bucks West.
Ok nice.
Then, I went to Quinnipiac. I went with the
goal of being a film editor, I wanted to specialize
in documentary filmmaking because I love telling
people's stories. I've always really gravitated
towards just nonfiction, more human stories.
Even just as a kid, I used to read biographies
all the time. Like, I mean, a young child,
I'd have like children's versions of like
Helen Keller Thomas that isn't like whatever,
Harry Houdini, I just remember being so excited
to learn about people and have facts as opposed
to fiction.
And then so when I was in school, I had interned,
you know, I had a plan to go down that path
and I had done some nonprofit work with some
professors from Yale and some other organizations
in new Haven for helping people who are in
rehabilitation for for drug abuse and mental
issues, mental health issues. So that was
something that I became really passionate
about. But like I said, you know, I was handed
my diploma and the housing market crashed
and they were like, good luck with your lives.
You've just spent a fortune on an education
that's virtually useless. So I remember at
the time before when I was still in school
saying to my parents that, you know, I wanna,
I want to be a filmmaker. And my mom said,
who was in media for quite some time? Actually
she's from New York and she lived in Manhattan
during the seventies. They're stories that
I will never know.
I'm sure.
She was like, absolutely not. So when I told
her that, she said, you know, I applaud it
and I'm glad that you're doing something that
you love, but it's just, it's not going to
most likely be the most financially stable
thing that you can do. And I was like, I don't
care if like I don't have any money if I'm
living in a box, as long as I'm doing what
I love. Then cue the economy crashing and
me having no job and no prospects at the time.
And I was like, so that was wrong. I don't
think I'd be okay with that. Hence my standard
of living doesn't need to be a ton of money,
just want to make sure we don't have to think
about it. And then, so when I I sort of fell
ass backwards into technology because I had
been using so much software and technology
to do filmmaking and editing that at the time
it was still on CD ROMs.
It was like final cut pro and like a 10 pound
box of disks and books on how to use it and
hours and hours in editing bays. And when
I came out of that experience and the tech
boom was just really starting to happen again,
particularly around mobile. I had a couple
of jobs in between, nothing super notable,
but one that really for me became just such
an obvious point of transition for me was
how I was working at a company in King of
Prussia that had been an ad agency. And they
started to transition all of the work to overseas
and we were becoming more of a call center,
which sort of like the inverse of what you
usually see happen. I swear my dogs are barking
more today than they ever have on any call
ever, which is only mildly annoying by the
way.
And so, and I literally had to punch a clock
and I just remember this feeling of just like,
Ugh, I can't do this. I make not connecting
with people. There's nothing strategic about
this. There's nothing that's like making you
want to wake up every day. And so I ended
up getting into the mobile tech space when
I started a job at Careerbuilder, intended
to be like a marketing position but turned
into a product management role. And that sort
of was like the rest of the story for me as
far as the trajectory of my career. It was
really focusing on what are the things that
I want to do in technology and helping in
a way, it felt philanthropic to me because
it's helping people find jobs and I was unemployed
for a period of time. So it felt like very
relatable to me and I wanted to help people
by creating better technology and the iPhone
had just sort of started to make headway at
that point. So it was all really new. And
the experience obviously on a smartphone,
so much different than a desktop and more
personal to people, I had the opportunity
to leave there, I went to the startup that
I discussed earlier who actually was like
our vendor for careerbuilder at the time.
And so I was there for a couple of years and
I was getting sort of pigeonholed into a customer
successful and it wasn't, again, strategic
enough for me. It was very reactive.
I transitioned out of that role and I had
another one that was sort of just a stepping
stone intermittent thing and ended up going
to a digital agency, which speaking of people
meeting and kind of the diversity of people,
they were headquartered in Greece. And so
I had the opportunity to travel there quite
a bit and stay there for like three weeks
one summer, and really not only get to know
the people there, but the culture and feel
just really integrated in that life.
I had actually studied abroad in college as
well. Which is probably surprising that I
didn't just say that because everybody I know
jokes around with me that that's like all
I mention. So when I spent a semester in Italy,
like that really opened my eyes to the world
and made me feel like there's so much more
for me out there and there's so many more
people and things that I don't understand
that I want to know about. And so when I came
back that became just such a point of hyper-focus
for me. How can I continue to, similar to
you...Actually I think I'm kind of having
a revelation right now. It's like a therapy
session. It's like I wanted to recreate that
feeling of connectedness and understanding
that it's not just about even feeling only
connected to people, but like what are the
things that I'm doing and am I being intentional
about these things?
Like the way food tastes is better. I cooked
more, I did these things more habitually just
because the environment in Italy allowed me
to do that. And I felt like that rebooted
a lot when I spent time in Greece. And so
before that time came to an end, I was let
go. I had about six months of time to spare
and see what I was going to do with my life.
And when I lost that job, everybody, my wife,
my mother and my best friends all said to
me, fight the urge. You have to fix this problem
right away because I know what you want to
do is turn around and go get another job because
you don't want to panic because you know what
it's like to be unemployed. And I was like,
"Yes, exactly!" And so I ended up taking a
road trip from Philly to Florida by myself.
My wife is super, super supportive. She was
like, go do your thing, regroup, find yourself
and come back with a better idea of what it
is that you want to do. And if that requires
a stop gap to be at a corporate job, again,
that's what it is. But at least you sort of
have a point of focus that you can go towards.
And so when I did that, I drove from Philly
to Maryland, met up with one of my friends,
then North Carolina, stayed with some other
friends there. Then I stayed in Savannah for
a night by myself. Similar to you on the outskirts
trying to spread my time and money properly.
And they met some really interesting people
there while I was hanging out by myself at
a restaurant. And that was a pretty uncomfortable
thing for me because even though I love meeting
people, I loathe nothing more than not knowing
anyone and walking into a room and being like,
"Okay, like am I going to have to interact
with these people and what's it going to be
like?"
And I spent a lot of time growing up also
being bullied. So I, there's definitely this
fear of rejection where it's like I walk into
a room and I'm already like, "I think I know
what they're thinking about."And so I'm trying
to get better at that. But by the time that
all sort of wrapped up and I was, I headed
to Florida stayed with some friends there,
had some period of self discovery and just
calm that I was able to get to because I love
the beach and that's just like my place to
be when I need
to think.
And then I came home and I remember sitting
in my car calling my mom to let her know I
had gotten back and having her say to me,
"Nikki, when we're not here anymore, like
nobody thinks to themselves, 'I wish I would
have worked more.'" And I thought that that
just since then has resonated so much with
me with the exception of maybe if this becomes
my full work, then, you know, I would love
to work more. But I, you know, breaking yourself
and feeling so disconnected from who you are
for a job is the worst possible feeling in
the world. And I've had it more than once.
And so I spent the next couple of months after
that trying to create anything, any opportunity.
But I do feel like I learned a lot from that
because we had an unsuccessful crowdfund and
there were things that, you know, you need
to think about after the fact and, and look
on and say, okay, how can I do this better
next time? And when I finally reset, I had
basically had a job offer on the table in
Pennsylvania, in Plymouth meeting actually.
And I wasn't super thrilled about it, but
I was running out of time and I needed a paycheck
again. Like I just purchased a house with
the mindset of, well, I guess I'm not going
to move to the West coast like I had always
hoped. I guess I'm just gonna, I guess it's
just going to be what it is. And and we're
going to live here.
And then I got a call from my current employer
and basically said to Holly, my wife, I was
like, I'm going to go, I'm going to interview.
I don't know that I expect anything to come
of it, but like worst case scenario, free
trip to Seattle and I've never been so cool,
let's do it. And I went and the interview
went well and within two days I had an offer
and I had to say, okay, so you want to like
wing it and move to Seattle with me and we
can go on a housing visit? And she said, "If
you're going, I'm going, I don't need to go
see it. If you think it's a good place for
us to live, then then let's go and let's be
there." And so we basically just up and left
a little less than three years ago and honestly
haven't really looked back since even despite
like the last year that I described. Thinking
about that more circumstantially and less
about like where we are and thinking about
the relationships that we've built here.
And even just coming into my own experience
here has been really amazing because I'm opening
up a lot more to connecting with people because
I'm finally comfortable with myself and able
to have dialogues that are less predicated
on that feeling of anxiety that I was describing
when meeting new people. And more about, just
like you said, what is that authentic connection
between people and maybe it's not there all
the time, or maybe it's not a good vibe. We
don't have to always have that, but it's definitely
given me a stronger sense of self and a desire
to create something that really builds those
relationships out and I had been blogging
for about a year and some of the more recent
posts that I'd written were about the event
that I mentioned and when I came away from
that I just started thinking, gosh, I really
want to engage with people. I don't want to
just be telling people about my life. I like
sharing it. I appreciate that we're having
this dialogue now.
I actually had a friend of mine ask me, are
you going to have people interview you on
your podcast or ask you questions? And I was
like, absolutely, let's do it. So thanks for
leading the way on that one, Rob. But I, yeah,
so that's all a lot of words. Just to say,
you know, I started this because I, I realized
that it's always been important for me to
communicate and connect with people coming
at it from sort of a one way street where
you're blogging and really you need people
to engage with that felt too impersonal. And
I really just wanted to hear more about other
people and be able to parlay certain elements
of my life into those discussions, but have
somebody else's story driving the conversation.
Because I think that it's just really important
that we share those things about us for whether
they're good, bad or indifferent. You know,
it's not easy to be who you are in a world
that's constantly telling you who you should
be. And I want people to feel safe and comfortable
having conversations with me and hopefully
when they leave the conversation feeling like
they have something that they can feel more
comfortable with or share with the world more
openly.
Good. And how long have you run the podcast
then?
I think I started it in September or August
of last year and I hadn't been producing as
much content. I was maybe like one every month,
month and a half. Just for time commitments
sake.
Yeah.
And then when this pandemic started, I had
already constructed a list of nearly a hundred
people to talk to, most of whom I could secure
as soon as I say like give me a date and a
time.
Mmhmm.
And the issue that I face is more time to
produce than it is actually recording and
trying to make sure that if I record a lot
upfront that the content doesn't become stale
and then sort of irrelevant. So, I'm still
sort of trying to strike that balance. Like
I rapid fire recorded a handful of these and
then I was like, okay, we're going to get
those out. And I'm releasing every two weeks
now because I don't have the bandwidth with
my full time job to be able to produce every
week right now. But that would be the, that
would be the ideal scenario.
And are you still in the tech world when it
comes to employment?
Yeah, so I currently work creating software
solutions for an enterprise company that I
don't mention on my podcast.
Yeah, that's fine.
But yeah, it's been a, it's been a journey
and I do actually feel like despite the fact
that I'm not huge on the whole corporate mindset
of things, I have a really great boss and
team that make going to work fun and interesting.
So it feels like if I have to split my time,
I'm in the ideal scenario to be able to split
my time with a group of people that I really
love and respect and challenge me professionally
and also translate that into, you know, feelings
of connection that can become something for
the podcast. I've actually interviewed one
of my coworkers and have a couple more of
them on the list to talk to. One of the, sorry,
one of the episodes with my friend Dustin
about coming out and he and I are actually
coworkers and we've known each other for years,
but just recently started working together
and every time we're in a meeting now, he
and my other friends, excuse me, who listened
to the podcast, are promoting it shamelessly
for me.
I guess maybe a little context on why the
name might also be helpful because I started
the blog with the concept of who the fuck
am I? Just to, I wanted to write to discover
myself and go deeper into that. And then when
I wanted to translate that into a podcast,
I wanted it to just be who the fuck? Like
who the fuck are you? Who the fuck am I?
I curse a decent amount. It's explicit, but
I try to, I try to contain it a little bit
more on the podcast than I do in my regular
daily life. But I liked it because it also,
I think has that intention of being bold and
drawing people in and also saying, you know,
while at first glance it might seem to be
something profane and inappropriate. It's
actually something that's really about uniting
people and having, you know, authentic conversations.
The, it's inquisitive, authentic, unapologetic.
That's the goal, right? Like trying to ask
questions, understand each other and not feel
bad about it. Just have the hard conversations.
What happens if we don't?
Yeah. That's cool. Oh, and then I wanted to
ask as like a cap to everything, do you plan
to go into documentary filmmaking still or
do you think that you have found like that
type of fulfillment through this path?
Yeah, that's a really great question Rob.
I am torn. I think that this is something
that is really fun to do and I started at
joking around with my friends that if there's
anything I should get paid to do, it's talking
because I never shut up. So anybody I know
will attest to that, particularly family.
And at the same time I do still really have
a strong passion for telling other people's
stories with that visual component to it.
I'm thinking that one of the things that I
want to do to try to sort of transition into
that maybe from the podcast is starting to
do more video content. This is a great jumping
off point for that, I think virtually speaking.
But especially when I am able to have more
in person interviews again.
The dream I think still exists. Maybe not
for a full time job to be a documentary filmmaker,
but I'd love to be involved in some projects
surrounding that because I think that's how
you get people invested in each other and
the visual component is really important for
that. I think it's super valuable to be able
to see people as well as hear from them.
Nice. Yeah, I, I can, I feel that with the
way that I've been doing my project recently
too, with the adding those clips in. So yeah,
it's really cool.
It's really cool to see the process that you've
gone through and use it sort of as a frame
of reference for myself. To be honest, I really
am grateful that you, you have this so that
I can see it and understand a little bit more
about your approach.
I know that we're a little over our hour,
but I did want to ask one more question.
For sure.
Out of curiosity / obligation, because I don't
feel like I would be a good spouse if I didn't
ask. What is Kelly Clarkson like? Is she as
nice as everybody says she is?
She is. So, my experience, I didn't meet her
until I went out onto the stage to do my piece
with her.
Yeah.
So I feel like I blacked out through the experience.
Sounds like something I would do.
Yeah. Cause it was a lot of pressure of, that
was the first time that I was going to be
on national TV in the, in the States. I think
still it was like the only time that I've
been on national TV. And yeah, like I walked
out and I introduced myself to Joe Koy and
Jane Lynch and Kelly,
Was it surreal? Just totally surreal?
It was. Are you Catholic?
Yeah. I grew, I grew up catholic for sure.
I don't know if you feel the same way, but
for me it kind of felt like the day of like
Holy communion, like the day of confirmation
where you like, I know this is a special day,
you know? So it was that type of experience
where, I dunno, for me it was like also very
special because the audience was made up of
people that I'd met.
And so it was like all people that you had
met? Or were there handfuls of people there?
It was like the audience is probably like
a hundred people, probably like 90 of them
were people that I met. The goal was for all
of them to be people that I met. But some
people had to drop out last minute because
of work and whatnot.
That's crazy though, that they actually catered
it to like the audience of people that know
you.
Yeah. So in a way, it felt like the episode
was kind of built around like that was the
stick of that particular episode was like,
this guy's meeting 10,000 people. Oh, by the
way, this audience is all people he's met.
And so to walk out onto the stage and to like
see all those familiar faces and people who
took time out of their day to come was really
cool.
Yeah.
And then Kelly was, yeah, like, I don't know,
I was excited to meet her, but she's not as
big a part of my life and so I maybe didn't
put her as high.
No, that's, that's totally valid. I was curious
because I mean you, you hear even just celebrities
on the show saying like, "Oh gosh, you're
just so down to earth, you're so real." We
actually went to a taping because I decided
to try to surprise my wife and and take her
to LA. Literally we like took a flight from
Seattle to LA and back in a day, like we went
for the taping and then he came home. And
so it was like a super brief thing, but it
was, it was cool to just kind of see that
as well. I've never been to a studio like
that, so I had no idea how it was going to
work. And it's very weird being in the audience
at a show like that because you're seeing
all the like little details in between things
that you don't catch when you're actually
watching it. So I think I had seen your episode,
I want to say I saw it before we went down
there. But it was one of those things, too,
where I can understand like where you're coming
from, where it's like, Oh my gosh, just to
see if people faces that you personally know.
And then to be in an environment surrounded
by, you know, Jane Lynch, Joe Koy, and Kelly
Clarkson. Like, I mean that's just a really
big moment for you.
Yeah. Yeah. And it was, she was very down
to earth like us talking, cause we talked
in between the segments. Like they interviewed
me about my project and then they did like
a thing where they had me point out people
that are talking about the people that I'd
met and in between those things, like she
and I were just talking and it was no different
than you and I talking right now.
That's awesome. That's sort of what you hope,
I think when you meet people who are in the
public eye is that they still have that raw
human reality to them.
Yes. And I have met people who like through
my project who were like big in a way like
their small niche thing and you can tell sometimes
people treat you like they're doing you a
favor being in your presence. And she was
not that way at all. She was like, I felt
like she genuinely wanted to get to know me.
That's super cool. Well I'm really glad to
hear that and I'm glad that you shared that
with me and I can relay that positive experience.
Yeah, of course.
Well Rob, I really appreciate your time today.
Thank you for going a little bit over with
me. It's been super fun to chat. I would love
to stay connected and maybe just even talk
offline a little bit more about kind of your
journey and what you're going through person
to person as I'm sort of exploring mine. So
if you're down for that, I would love to chat
more.
Yeah.
Cool. Well good luck with your move. Hopefully
everything goes swimmingly. I also hope that
everybody around you stays well during this
crazy time. And I'm excited to share this
with people. So we'll connect again and I
hope you enjoy the rest of your day. Thank
you so much, Rob.
Well gang, that’s all for this episode of
The Who The Fuck Podcast. A big thank you
to Rob for sharing his story and is time.
If you’d like to meet Rob shoot him a DM
on Instagram at @robs10kfriends or visit robs10kfriends.com.
Plus, don’t forget to visit whothefck.com/donate
to support @pennstatethon and help fight the
battle against childhood cancer. And if you
haven’t yet, make sure you subscribe to
The WhoTheF*ck? Podcast on your preferred
streaming platform, and if you like what you
hear, feel free to rate the show while you’re
at it!
