-I'm Amy Tobin
and it's a pleasure to be responding
and chairing the fourth session today
which is focused on friendships and groups.
The two speakers Lesley Ma
and Jovan Nicholson
who I'll introduce, both before they speak.
Lesley Ma is a curator of Ink Art at M+
Hong Kong's museum visual culture.
She curated the weight 
of lightness Ink Art at M+ in 2017
which explored a cross-disciplinary
and trans-cultural perspective on the subject.
She received AB in history 
and science from Harvard College
an MA in museum studies 
from New York University
and a PhD from the University
 of California, San Diego
with a dissertation 
on abstract painting Post-War Taiwan.
Our second speaker will be Jovan Nicholson.
He's an independent
 art historian and curator
who studied at London University in Russia.
Worked for Christie's 
and between 1990 and 2000
organised exhibitions
 for the British Council in Russia
and the former Soviet Republic.
More recently
he's curated and written the catalogues
for art and life Ben
 Nicholson Winifred Nicholson
Christopher Wood, Alfred Wallis
William Staite Murray 1920–1931
which taught many wonderful institutions
including Kettle's Yard
where I work and many other
 exhibitions on Winifred Nicholson.
He's got a forthcoming exhibition
 and monograph on Kate Nicholson
which will be published in May.
The exhibition will be 
at Falmouth Art Gallery.
He's the grandson of Ben 
and Winifred Nicholson.
I'd like to ask Lesley to join me up here.
Lesley paper is titled Taipei, Bologna: Li Yuan-chia's Beginnings.
-Good afternoon.
Taipei, Bologna
Li Yuan-chia's Beginnings.
Li Yuan-chia is an artist 
who had many beginnings in his life.
Each beginning was marked by his arrival
in a new place physically, geographically
culturally and artistically.
Each beginning was also marked whenever
and wherever he drew a point
which took a variety
 of visual forms, round graphic dots
calligraphic brush circles, fabric patches
or magnetic photographic discs.
A poem by Li much cited
 throughout an exhibition and conference
"The point is the beginning of everything
and also the end," 
signifies the multiple beginnings
and the relations with one another.
In this paper
 I will discuss his beginnings in Taipei
and in Bologna, two places 
that lay the groundwork for his career.
The paper will centre on the artistic
and cultural groups 
with which Li was associated in Taipei
and Bologna as well 
as the social network and artistic milieu
in which his work was produced and considered.
At the same time, it will examine
the works Li produced in the two locations
to understand the formation 
and evolution of his ideas.
These beginnings of Li will shed light
on his later multifaceted 
friendship-based activities in Cumbria
about which we have learned so much today.
The beginnings discussed
 in this paper span from 1952 to 1966.
Between the year
 Li began a formal art education
at a Taipei Normal College
 and his departure for the UK from Bologna.
In 1952, China was deep in recovery mode
after the epic struggle 
against the Japanese invasion
between 1937 and 1945
followed by the 
brutal civil war that resulted
in a communist takeover of the mainland
and the nationalists retreat to Taiwan in 1949.
Li fled with over 
a million other refugees to Taiwan
where cultural reorientation after 50 years
of Japanese colonisation had begun to unfold.
Against the backdrop of Cold War geopolitics
and the threat 
of military conflict with the PRC
the Nationalist government 
in Taiwan implemented a staunch conservatism.
Martial law dictated
 all aspects of quotidian life.
The arts' establishment 
maintained the support
for oil painting styles 
developed by the Japanese
which is the ones on the left.
At the same time
the government's preservation
as cultural policy championed
 classical Chinese ink paintings
in particular, landscape paintings
a genre favoured
 and developed by scholar artists
since the 10th century 
that embodied the tenets
of Chinese philosophy and aesthetics
and projected a harmonious
 attitude toward nature.
It is in this climate that the first wave
of avant-garde in Chinese art was born.
You see the examples
 of the landscape paintings
in the post-war Taiwan period on the right.
On November 5th, 1957
He Fan the influential columnist
and editor of United Daily News
one of the most circulated 
newspapers in Taiwan
penned an article titled 
The Bandits’ Painting Exhibition
[Mandarin].
Published over two consecutive days
in advance of the inaugural exhibition
 of Ton Fan society in Taipei
the article introduces the arrival
of modern paintings spearheaded
by eight unknown artists in their 20s.
What seemed like a sensational headline
in fact, was an announcement
of the changing of the guard in Chinese art.
By calling the young artist bandits
[Mandarin]
a term for robbers on horseback
in the bygone days
who would shoot howling arrows
before approaching their target
He Fan emphasised 
the audacity of these outlaws
who had no money 
or social status, only a grand vision.
A seasoned journalist and taste-maker
in the literary and cultural circle
He Fan was a proponent of modernity
and reform to bring Chinese society
and culture on par
 with his international counterparts.
While aware of the new style by young artists
may upset the cultural establishment
He Fan used his social clout to argue
for their rightful existence 
of modern painting
and to promote the group 
which included his nephew Xia Yang.
His article was, in fact, that the forceful
howling arrow 
warning the cultural aristocracy
of the bandits' arrival.
Established just one year before in 1956
the Ton Fan society 
consisted of eight young painters
all but one of mainland origin
who graduated 
from the Taipei Normal College
and took lessons from artist Li Zhongsheng.
The artistic nutrients of this Cantonese-born, Japanese-educated Li Zhongsheng
came from classical Chinese ink paintings
early 20th-century European
 avant-garde paintings
underground anti-academic art in late 1920s
Tokyo and the Cosmopolitan 
modernism of 1930s Shanghai.
Li's instruction for his students was guided
by a liberal spirit
 that favour an expressionist style.
One can see easily from these examples
on the slide why the students sought
his instructions outside of the academy.
Though the image behavior of a bandit
seems extremely unfit for the personality
and the type of art Li Yuan-chia's known for
one can see how his work 
signified a new visuality in Chinese art.
A painting by him titled As in Art
on the left was exhibited
 at the Fourth São Paulo Biennial in 1957.
A loose grid with irregular lines and patches
of colour in the spaces between.
The work has strong traces of influences
from Mondrian and Kandinsky
yet it also has qualities of ink wash
an arrangement of blank space
typical in traditional Chinese painting.
Li described his artistic
 pursuit at the time entails
"Searching in oracle 
scripts and inscriptions
on bronzes 
for the distinguished characteristics
of our country's abstract art
in order to find the key element
that defines our modernity
the distinguished trait 
of our national character
and the spirit of the modern."
While the statements 
submitted to the Republic
of China Commissioner
for the São Paulo Biennial sounded
uncharacteristically official in tone
and seemed to overlook the paintings
over European modernists flavour
it summarises 
Li's pursuit in this period.
That abstract art was a stylistic goal.
The ancient Chinese
 script was a key formal
and symbolic inspiration and that a Chinese
characteristic was necessary for new art.
The title of the work, As in Art
also suggests these ambitious exploration
in the existential truth for art.
Instead of the Literati convention
that dominated Chinese art for centuries
the Ton Fan artists look 
to pre-modern culture for inspiration.
Ton Fan in Chinese means 
Eastern so from the east.
A later work by Li, here on the top left
along with several others
 by fellow Ton Fan artists testify
to the effort in integrating ancient symbols
or oracle bone scripts
deconstructed characters, stroke combinations
surface qualities of bronze sculptures
calligraphic movements 
and exploring their potential
as the basis of abstraction and the marker
of a globally legible modernity.
Concurrent with the Ton Fan society
was the Fifth Moon society founded in 1956
the same year as the Ton Fan society
by graduates of the art department
of the National Normal University
and named after Salon de Mai
an avant-garde group in 1920s France.
The artists of this group sought
to combine the spirit and aesthetics
of Chinese ink painting with the language
of abstract expressionism.
They pushed the boundaries
of what landscape painting could constitute
and provoked the cultural establishment
in favour of classical landscape painting
best represented by the masterpieces 
in the Palace Museum collection
that were brought to Taiwan
 by the Nationalist government.
Many artists in this group
 explored the materiality
in their painting
 by using unorthodox techniques
instruments or materials
 to diversify the surface texture.
In doing so, they also expanded the vocabulary
and visual styles for abstract painting.
Perhaps because of their abstract landscape painting
directly reference and in some ways
reiterate the monumentality and idealism
of classical landscape painting.
The Fifth Moon artists received more support
from the establishment
as well as from foreign 
scholars of Chinese art
identifying them as the
 torchbearers of modern Chinese painting.
The art of Ton Fan and Fifth Moon
can be understood as recuperative efforts
in establishing deeper connections
with one's cultural roots
and identity after major national crises
while pursuing modernity
 in universal terms.
The spirit of experimentation
 and the resulting
new visuality electrified
 the social atmosphere.
At the same time
was the emergence of modernised poets
who joined the collective effort
of defining the voice of a generation.
The poets, also mainland 
born and experienced
the horror of war and for separation
sought to break away from traditional 
formats of classical Chinese poetry.
They imported ideas
 from symbolism and surrealism
absorbed existentialist philosophy
and conveyed their 
own experiences of displacement
nostalgia, rupture
and complex emotions in their poems.
As they fought
 the traditionalist on language and prose
they found in their 
painter peers kindred spirit
and visualisations of their words.
At the inaugural 
exhibition of Ton Fan society
The Bandits' Exhibition
 modern poets including Chu Ge
Xin Yu, Xiang Ming 
and a leader of radical modernist poetry Ji Xian
were among the most enthusiastic supporters.
Other poets like Lo Fu
Ya Xian, Lo Men and Yu Guangzhong
were closer to painters 
in the Fifth Moon society.
The report between
 the artists and poets were remarkable.
Artists made illustrations
 or design book covers
for the poets, and the poets wrote criticism
of the art for newspapers and magazines.
Here are two examples 
of the crossovers of the two communities.
Worth noting is the military
 background of many poets
and painters during this time.
Four founding members
which is half of the 
Ton Fan society were in the Air Force.
Two of the Fifth Moon artists were in the Navy
In post-war Taiwan
 the military was a powerful cultural producer.
They funded arts 
and literature periodicals
and magazines and encourage artists
writers and poets in service 
to publish and circulate their work.
While their original purpose
was to promote patriotism 
and traditional culture
progressive and experimental viewpoints
also proliferated through that platform
and like-minded artists encounter
 each other's works through it.
Another network 
within the diasporic population
is a school for the orphans 
of nationalist military officers
which brought Li to Taiwan.
Among its attendees were Li's fellow
Ton Fan artist Huo Gang 
and the Fifth Moon artist Liu Kuo-sung
They, as well as those in the military
were bound by the experience of war trauma
displacement, nostalgia
 and shared experience
under the auspice of nationalist government
that was both nurturing and restrictive.
The stories of the mass migration in 1949
and its aftermath have been well documented
but most significant for the purpose
of our discussion 
is how the period of pain
and suffering and extreme ennui
in a martial law society had created
a robust creative community 
and artistic expressions.
Within these this network of young
restless and passionate artists
cross-disciplinary exchanges
and synergy ushered
in a golden period of arts 
and literature development in Taiwan.
Modern media
 in the post-war Taiwanese society
was also a pivotal platform for publicity
and exchanges between artists
and their friends from other disciplines.
As He Fan's explosive article
 then United Daily News
can attest modern media 
played an important role
in the dissemination
 of the ideas in modern art.
In many other communities 
from America to Japan to Brazil
the modern media also played big roles
in the popularization of modern art and ideas.
Two important monthly 
literary and arts publications
Wenxing and Bihui
here I show the inaugural 
issues of both magazines
were key platforms of publishing
and disseminating
 of modern art and poetry.
Wenxing established in 1957
on the left was edited 
by He Fan the author of the bandit article
and he hired open-minded 
writers to manage the art content.
The magazine had become a major source
of information on Western literature and Chinese
and Western art and art history.
In one instance, it shows a juxtaposition
of Kandinsky Pollock with masterpieces
of Chinese cursive calligraphy by Sun Guoting and the monk Huai Su
The visual affinity of abstraction
is thus established 
while it gave theoretical justification
to the calligraphic
 abstraction of Li and his peers.
While it is difficult to prove that Li
had browsed through these pages
it is within reason
 to assume that the information
of abstract art 
from foreign sources circulated
amongst the cultured class and were debated
along traditional calligraphy.
The magazine also defined 
as the zeitgeist at the time
the short-lived literary 
magazine Bihui edited
by yet another orphan school alumnus Yu Tien-t’sung
was the first literary magazine
to display both Fifth Moon and Ton Fan work side
by side in 1960 
as the two groups garnered much reputation.
The works show a shared 
interest in surface texture
gestural movements
abstract forms, and messy
anxious raw emotions unfamiliar
in the classical Chinese painting lexicon
and thus push forward 
aesthetics of a new generation
bound by a collective 
nostalgia of the homeland
yet manifested in different ways.
This generation of art has
 harnessed a perpetual sadness
and mystery in their work
which might explain why they chose abstraction
of landscape painting which symbolises both
an interiority and literally the land
and archaic symbols 
as departure points in the first place.
You can see Li's work right here.
Most of the Ton Fan artists 
left Taiwan in early 1960s for you--
Wait, sorry, I conclude this Taipei section
by looking at a few works
 that would summarise
his artistic explorations in the Taipei period.
Here you see on the left more
of a Mondrian-esque, Kandinsky-esque
exploration in the early 1950s.
To the right, the more calligraphic expression that he had made.
I think there are about 300 works that exist.
I must talk about this work from 1960
which is in the M+ collection.
It's a long-form, kind of 
in the scroll form, about seven metres long.
I think a few of you have
 seen this in my exhibition last year.
What's interesting
 while it's so long, I made these in two sections.
There's a signature here on the left end
but also a signature on the right end.
It suggests that you
 can read it from left to right
and from the right to left.
Traditional Chinese hand scrolls
are read only from the right to left.
He's really making this 
a circular activity, as well as intimate.
It's impossible to show this work on the slide
so it really re-creates a request
 for an intimate viewing experience.
Of course, you can see the composition
of this painting reminiscent 
of landscape painting
but as well as a musical score 
that breeze through the space.
If you really study this closely
they're about 100 kinds of dots
on this really interesting little painting.
This is also the first work 
I bought for the museum.
Most of the Ton Fan artists left Taiwan
in the early 1960s for Europe
primarily because 
one of the founding artists
of the group Xiao Qin
 moved to Spain in 1955
and then Italy the year after.
In 1962, Li Yuan-Chia embarked
on a new beginning in Bologna
under the invitation 
of Dino Gavina, the furniture designer
and patron whose social 
circle included prominent artists
architects, and designers 
at the forefront of modernist innovations.
Marcel Duchamp
 Lucio Fontana, Carlos Scarpa
Marcel Breuer and Pier Giacomo Castiglioni
all were frequent guests 
of Gavina house and workshop.
Li established a studio and home
on the Gavina premise 
and began a few fruitful years
of artistic production
where he made acquaintances
 with senior artists and designers
an experience that allowed him to glean
the most cutting edge ideas
 from design and architecture for his art.
In Bologna, he further distilled his ideas
of the point 
and reduced the gestural calligraphic
abstractions 
to even more minimalist markings.
Li, for a while, prepped craft Canvas for Fontana.
Though their abstract impulses 
have very different sources
from their work
you can see the meeting of sensibilities
as Guy Brett has well-argued in his essay
the work by Li and by Fontana share
a "Cosmological element in their work."
From Fontana's piercing of the surface
like Li's cosmic points embody 
contradictions in a singular gesture.
Actually in the background here 
is Fontana at work in the Gavina house.
Being in a foreign environment prompted Li
to look for inspiration 
from his mother culture
a trope not unfamiliar to immigrant artists.
One of the major innovations Li made in Bologna
was the new format 
and constructive frames of his paintings.
Concertinas, as we had talked about before
are reinterpretations 
of Chinese folding albums.
Framed paintings here on the left
two paintings
 and relieves elongated rectangles
take the proportions of Hanging Scrolls.
Most significantly, the large relief diptychs
or triptychs inherited the form
of the traditional Chinese altar arrangements
or interior wall furnishings
that include a pair 
of couplets and centrepiece.
What I'm describing is here.
As tradition households
you will see a centrepiece
 with couplets hung that way.
This outdoor image from the Gavina archives
on the left. One sees Li at work
 with a painted wooden relief triptych.
Perhaps it is the environment
of the Gavina's furniture business
and the discussions around modern design
for the home that prompted Li to take
on the form of the triptych.
The argument is also supported by the fact
that Li was never so interested in high culture
but more drawn 
to vernacular customs and beliefs
so taking cues from interior decorations
of common Chinese households is possible.
Through Ton Fan society's Hsiao Chin
Li was involved in activities 
of the Punto group in Milan and Bologna.
Established in 1961
 the members included Antonio Calderara
Kenjiro Azuma, Lucio Fontana and Hsiao
Chin and Li Yuan-chia. Hsiao Chin labeled their central philosophy
“Mindful Contemplation” (jingguan),
a Daoist inspired understanding of the process of making art.
They value subjectivity and control
 not the spontaneous expressions.
The point in the Punto's belief is
"Solemn, pure, positive
eternal and constructive."
From these works, one can see the sources
and affinity of Li's aesthetics and process.
Now you see here on the left 
a work by Hsiao a point appears
the Chinese writing translates to chaos
which is the primordial 
beginning of the universe
in both Daoist beliefs and Western science.
That's also an M+ collection.
My paper sought 
to outline Li Yuan-chia's collaborative
and cross-disciplinary way of working
the chapters of his artistic career.
I explored artistic networks and communities
of artists in Taiwan 
as well as the artistic networks
in Bologna and Milan that had been crucial
to the formation of Li's career.
His career from 1952 to '66 provide
an important way
 of conceptualising cross-disciplinary
cross-medium alliances 
in post-war modernist art.
His personal trajectory also enabled us
to think more deeply about a global network
of post-war art movements 
in non-centres such as Taipei
Bologna, Milan, then to London and Cumbria
even to Sao Paulo 
that have yet to be fully explored
in current art-historical studies.
I look forward 
to the next beginnings of research
that Li's work will continue to inspire.
Before I conclude
I would like to thank lots of people
a community of people 
that help with these research
that includes
 the LYC Foundation, everyone in it.
Yu Wei and Kaiwei who are two researchers who spent
seven years cataloguing
 the LYC Foundation Holdings.
Colleagues at Taipei Fine Arts Museum
artists poets and editors
 in Taiwan that I talked to.
Sylvia Gavina
daughter of Dino and researcher Chiang Po-shin
in Taiwan and Lucy Steeds.
Thank you very much.
[applause]
-Good afternoon.
Wow.
There's been so many interesting talks
and such an interesting dialogue
that I want to try 
and pick up on one or two ideas
that we've been talking about 
so if I sound ad-lib a bit
please forgive me.
First of all, thank you very much
for the organisers from a wonderful work
that's been done and also for inviting me.
It's a real privilege to come
 and talk about Winifred and Li.
[clears throat] Excuse me.
I find it very interesting process 
to think about this more deeply.
Sorry.
I'm also very conscious 
that those who knew the LYC--
I know the LYC Museum and Art Gallery
but it's always referred to as the LYC.
I'm very conscious of those who knew
the LYC have very strong
 opinions about the museum
and I hope that what I'm going
to say will chime with their memories.
We also refer to him as Li.
Others knew Li extensively, in particular
Niki Sawyer, Donald Wilkinson
Mark Jones former director of the V&A
Richard DeMarco, Andy Christian, and Joy Dee.
I'm indebted to them all
 for discussing the LYC with me
on a number of occasions 
and it's an absolute delight
to see Nicky and Joy here today.
When Li arrived in Cumberland as it was in 1968
I have to point this out, I'm sorry
as a native Cumbrian
as it was then in 1968
 Winifred was in her only 70s.
You might have been surprised an artist
who'd come to prominence
 40 years previously, she'll be interested
in a young Chinese conceptualist.
However, Winifred came 
from an open-minded background.
Her brother Wilfred Roberts
 when he was a Liberal MP in the 1930s
he later post-war became Labor
had been instrumental
 in bringing vast children refugees
from the Spanish Civil War to the UK.
Some of whom Winfred taught painting.
When Winifred lived at Boothby
which during the war 
which was then her parent's house
there were Jewish refugees 
in the house as well as a white Russian.
Significantly
when Winifred visit America in 1964
she infused about 
the opera she had seen there.
She earned a kinetic multiple by Takis
all poles and flashing lights.
Her daughter
 Kate Nicholson, who's also a painter
was very familiar with what was going on
in the Signals Gallery in London.
Most importantly
Winifred Hardwood, Ben Nicholson
her former husband described 
as a gift of friendship with artists.
At various times she befriended
 of that Christopher Wood
William Staite Murray, Alfred Wallis
Mondrian, Arp, Helion, and Gabo.
I think it's significant 
that she commissioned Gabo
to a particular moment
 when he was low in his affairs.
Given this, it was natural 
that she should be friendly.
Now this photograph as I said
it's by Richard DeMarco from 1975
but it's the library at the LYC.
I will talk a moment about the library.
Boothby, Li's studio is up here.
Sorry.
You approach it 
by a staircase which came up this way.
There's obviously something wrong with that.
Which Winifred took 
her grandchildren to go and see him.
We used to go and play ping pong.
I should point out that Winifred lived
in these rooms when she came to Boothby after the war.
Because of their size
they were known as the cat killers.
If you're really looking closely
it's on photographs we've seen
you would have seen Li's ping-pong table.
This came to Winifred's house 
after he moved to the Bankside.
I'm sorry, it's quite large 
so it's not that easy to photograph.
The fun in this is that 
depending where the ball lands
it bounces differently.
The Little Missenden Festival
this was run 
by Pat Harrison who was the mother
of Winifred's daughter-in-law.
I think Winifred had a key role
in organising this Little Missenden Festival
which is in Buckinghamshire in 1970.
Already, we're seeing Wilfred
 is organising exhibitions for him.
I hope you can see this.
I was really pleased 
to see this in the film upstairs.
Winifred couldn't sell the Bankside.
There was a crack.
Now I'd always thought a crack.
Can you see that? 
That's what you caught a crack.
One of the things I do want to point out
is although Winifred sold Backside to Li
at an extremely favourable rate
he paid it to her over a period of time.
I remember him coming at one point
and paying the last installment
and Winifred being slightly 
surprised that he paid on time.
She did stipulate one thing and that
is that he should run it 
as a museum for 10 years.
I think although by 1982
he was probably 
as people have said quite exhausted
he had also fulfilled his commitment.
Now, this is the exterior from 1982
but you can just see here
it's got this structure
 to support the outside.
Li has taken on this building 
with this enormous crack
and I love this idea which Li has taken
on this project which everyone else had baulked at.
I think it's a wonderful symbolism
of the way in which the museum starts.
One of the things he does
it has this open-access library.
I only know one museum 
which has an open-access library.
That's Kettles Yard.
It's rather interesting that it should be there
because of the link with Kettles Yard 
and Winifred Nicholson.
I'm pretty sure this is one of Winifred's books.
I think she gave him a whole series of them
from the source which she and her husband
were collecting in Paris in the 1920s.
Now interesting thing here 
is the BN at the top.
These are lovely really early editions
with beautiful
 black-and-white photographs.
Again, here we've got Renoir 
and look at that Nicholson.
Imagine going into the LYC in the 70s
and seeing extremely interesting books.
I think it's so generous of Winifred
to share them with a wider audience.
Winifred had five cosmic point multiples.
We loved playing with these as children.
She showed them in her main room.
This is her main sitting room, obviously there's--
But look at this
 it's right next to Ben Nicholson's six circles.
I love this piece.
It's been a real joy to have to look at it again.
It's about nine inches wide.
After a while, it sits and it's static.
When you first put it up, it moves.
Depending on where the light is coming from
because it's so white, it reflects the light.
I think it's extraordinarily beautiful.
Also, it's very interesting last talk
we're talking about Fontana
I like this hole and the shape.
It's got this rather beautiful 
signature on the inside of the hole.
I should say, this has come from
Winifred Nicholson's collection and you have
to think she must have loved these white pieces
because these are the white reliefs
which her husband was making in the 1930s.
It has a companion piece which is black
and there are a number 
of these white and black works
which links up to one of the discussions
we were having about Backside 
of the room or something.
I took this photograph 
of the family gathering
about Christmas time
 because I was interested in the people.
It turns out it's actually now
much more interesting for what's not behind.
Winifred has three of these hessian wall hangings.
We've been talking about interaction.
These were curtains
 so you'd open during the day
and there are two large windows behind them.
I loved this when I was growing up
and they are for me still some 
of my most favourite Winifred works.
I'm sorry that there hasn't
 been more emphasis put on.
I think is interesting one of the questions
we have before is about calligraphy.
They relate very much 
to all sorts of Chinese things.
I think there's an interesting
 relationship with Don Sylvester.
This one is now in Tullie House in Carlisle.
-[laughter]
-If you need better images
please contact me later on.
This is a snapshot I took 
in someone's house recently
purchased by one of Winifred's friend
who are major collectors of Winifred's paintings.
She's encouraging her friends to buy his works
and they don't have just one, they got two
aren't they gorgeous?
I even say humorous too.
Great fun and such imagination and large.
Now, Winifred 
encouraged many of our friends
to come and share the LYC.
Valerie Thornton
 who was a printmaker lived in the south.
This is the Bewcastle Cross
which if you know
North East Cumberland 
is what persons who describe
as the finest monument 
in Europe from the 9th century.
She also showed
 with her husband Michael Chase.
This is Mary Newcomb who shares the show
with Winifred at the LYC in 1979.
Again, Mary Newcomb lived in the south.
Winifred knew her through
 the Crane Kalman Gallery
because they both showed there.
She's bringing these other artists in.
This is Thetis Blacker 
who was more really a friend
of I think Kathleen Raine.
She's a batik artist.
I was thrilled to see this 
in the black and white film.
It's tantalising for sure.
It was a very short piece 
which shows Thetis Blacker's exhibition.
I think the person 
on the right is Thetis Blacker.
Also, Kate Nicholson
Winifred's daughter had two shows at the LYC.
My brother, Winifred's grandson
had a show, as did my mother.
This was my brother 
just before he went to Newcastle College.
This is a rug again.
Again occasion might have very only
on the Frederick Ross which
 and I was very pleased
to see that it's in thought was talking about.
It's a north country tradition
Winifred was very keen on this
and she really tried 
hard to reestablish these.
She designed these, and they were made
by other people 
with these strips of reused fabric.
This was bought
by the UEA in 1975 from LYC.
At that time, there were rug making workshops
but interestingly
Li actually also himself designed a rug.
I think this one moment almost symbolizes
to me, the whole way 
in which this connectivity going on.
Li made the frame for his picture by Winifred.
It's beautifully made in pristine white
but I just want you
 to hold the image of that Winifred.
This is the picture 
that she was making in the 1970s
and we'll see, for me
there are so many
 interesting things going on here
but what I come to the end is the way
in which I think she totally 
changed what she was painting.
Flower tales
which she produced in edition of 500.
Winifred wrote a lot of stories
beginning I think post-war.
There's still a number 
which hopefully, at some point
will be published but these are the only ones
which have been published and it was due to me [?].
Again, this was something that he was doing
which was very important for her.
Sorry I have to move on 
from my notes a little bit.
This is [?]
She had a trip to North Africa in 1970.
She wrote to Ben.
Ben and Winfred had a very 
interesting correspondence right
throughout their life
 after they separated, "I adore criticism.
I'm very grateful for it.
I get all too little up here.
The only person
 who gives me is a young Chinaman.
He's exhibited 
in Rome Florence and in Signals.
He makes things
 that the spectator participates
with that is large white magnetic panels
on which one places 
wooden circles to ones liking.
When Li places them, they have meaning.
When other people 
move them, they had none."
"He said to me yesterday
'The way you paint fast 
what you feel and want to paint
is fine for making a good picture
as you can, but to take 
the next step and make a masterpiece
you must know what you do
 not like and what you cannot do
and think, not only feel, “how can one do that?”
by painting very slowly.
When you are painting what you feel
you can and must paint very fast as you do
when you are painting after that
with your thoughts you must paint
 very, very, very slowly."
I'm not sure she took 
the last bit of advice that we have.
The owner of this picture told me
that Li said to Winifred
"Every painting must have
 a bit of red in it" and look.
[laughter]
Isn't it great?
I don't know what it was doing there
but she loved experimenting.
She would take upon
 all sorts of ideas from me.
As we've heard
Winifred had four shows at the LYC.
The most I find of anyone else is two.
The last one was posthumous.
I have to say, the 1976 show
she showed her abstract paintings
which she'd mostly 
made in Paris in the 1930s.
She's showing some 
of her most avant-garde works here
at this time and really experimenting
gaging people's opinions
 of what she's up to.
Winifred met, through the LYC
 the artist Donald Wilkinson.
This is where it begins 
to get really interesting.
Donald knew that Winifred had been
to the Isle of Eigg in Hebrides in the 1950s
with Kathleen Raine
and he said to her, "Let's go".
So in 1980, they went up.
[coughs]
Donald Wilkinson and his family
for the first week, Valerie Thornton
and Michael Chase for the second
and for both weeks, Kate.
This is one of Winifred's 
most best loved pictures
and without me, I don't think we would have it.
Similarly
Winifred owes a huge debt 
to him but there's more to come.
This is the opening of her exhibition in 1979.
She's talking to Godfrey Bennett here
he was a friend of Larry, a amateur artist.
He's also someone who showed at the LYC.
The end of his life he lived in Carlisle.
Behind, we've got Kate
 and this is Donald Wilkinson.
Here at the opening we've got 
four people who showed at the LYC.
I don't know who the others are
so if Nikki or Joy do know I'd be most interested.
Also, we've got one of his very
 recognisable pieces of furniture.
What's interesting 
about this show is that Winifred
beginning to show some 
of her most experimental arts.
Sorry, I was going to go on and say about Eigg
Kate made four trips
 to the Isle of Eigg, the last one with myself.
It had direct influence on me
and that's what I like to think
of this cascade of influences going on.
What had been going on, you have to think
Winifred is living 
two minutes drive from the LYC.
I'm sure she went to just about every opening.
There were shows by Paula [?], David Nash
Andy Goldsworthy twice
 James Hugonin, Shelagh Wakeley
to mention just a few.
There was paintings
sculptures, pottery, photographs
installation, felt-makers, tapestries, weaving
and as we've had from [?] yesterday, video.
I was really interesting talking
 to Madeline afterwards.
She went and met Winifred 
on a number of occasions.
The word she used was "open"
and I think that's so interesting.
[?], who assisted the LYC
recalls Winifred sitting in the front row
during a performance by a young artist.
Winifred was wearing
 her plastic knee-length, red boots.
Performance by young artist
Gary C. Cooper shelves materials here.
I haven't managed 
to find anything more about him
but I think this is wonderful
 and I would love to see it repeated.
I think it's very apposite today.
He came in with a tool bag, took out his tools
screwed a shelf to the wall
and placed the tools on it.
I'd love to know what Winifred
 was thinking as she watched Gary C. Cooper
but I bet she appreciated
 the humour and the irony.
All these things going on
what effect did they have on Winifred?
I'll have to quote from Kate
"I look at modern things, but stick to my own idea
but somehow having looked at the modern things.
Something that they have gets
 absorbed into one's own work".
My thesis is that LYC and Li gave Winifred
the encouragement to express 
herself freely in her late pictures.
This is Plant for a Present.
She'd always been interested in prisms
and the way in which they used light.
She says, "I found out what flowers know.
How to divide
 the colors as prisms do into longer
and shorter wavelengths
and in so doing giving the luminosity
and brilliance of pure color
in the ordered sequence 
of the octave of colour".
She's really experimenting
and you can see the way 
in which these bright rainbow colours
are being infused into her work.
I particularly wanted to show this work
because you can see it here on the wall.
That's Plant for a Present.
Also, here's the plant's white Streptocarpus.
Which incidentally, it's sitting in a white
very classical, Chinese vase
which her friend, EJ Hooper.
Who had been in China in the 1930's
and was also a stalwart supporter of the LYC
it's sitting in this Chinese vase.
So there we have Plant for a Present.
Winifred was extraordinarily
 experimental in these last pictures.
I'm just going to show you two.
Hover, this is so different
 from what she was doing before.
I think this willingness to experiment
and trying new things 
comes straight out of enthusiasm
and the energy and the excitement
that she's experiencing in the LYC.
[?], one of my absolute favourites.
You can see the way in which she's using the prism
she split up the prismatic colours.
On the bottom right-hand corner
there are these two
I think they're Greek shells
 they're about this big.
You tend to find the yellow
 and the red colours get dispersed
and the cooler colours
 are up on this wafting shape.
These prismatic pictures
 were extremely important for Winifred.
She showed a few at the LYC just to see in 1979
and then the main show 
was in the Crane Kalman Gallery in 1981.
Sadly, three weeks after she died.
The problem with them is
 there are none in public collections.
It's very difficult
 to see them and access them.
LYC, there were doll-making workshops
puppet-making workshops
tapestry weaving, glass engraving
Saturday evening art and music workshops
they were more social 
than anything else I seem to remember
felt-making workshops.
I must point out that
 there's a photograph which is regularly shown
it's described as rug-making, it's not
it's felt-making with Jenny Collins.
Poetry readings including Kathleen Raine
close friend of Winifred's
 and also Francis Horowitz and others
and the wonderful children's room.
Amongst others
 there was work by Chinese, German
Norwegian, and American artists.
One of the things 
we were talking about previously--
thinking about Lee's
 really unique achievement
was to create an open space 
which allowed anyone
to express their innate creativity.
I think this is Winifred and Li in the house
by Richard DeMarco in 1975.
If you think Li
 is sitting slightly precariously
it's because he's on a William Morris chair.
Winifred, she's changed 
the proportions of the legs
and if you sit back too far you flip over.
[laughter]
I think for Winifred
if you weren't creating, you weren't alive.
I think that's something 
that comes through with Li
and I think they were chimed--
-with each other on that.
Also I think she would've loved this idea
of having a gallery run without a committee.
[laughter]
We heard earlier on 
about Li sending out his catalogues
to his friends and also his calendars.
I counted up there are about over, in 1980
there were 203 friends 
that are actually listed in the calendar.
So you can see who were friends.
I love this idea as we were talking about
it's very democratic and it's very extending everything.
I wanted to end by quoting
 from the calendar from 1980.
She's got [?] name at the bottom here
but I think this comes straight from Li.
What Lee has made is more than a building.
It embodies all his space of time life ideas
and his desire to share them.
People who regret the apparent end
of Li's artistic output should see
that the drive behind the building
is the same as the one behind 
the watercolours and the wood structures.
It is a work of art.
When it's finished something
 else will take its place.
Thank you.
[applause]
-Well, I think friendship
has come up numerous times
 actually through the day
and I'm particularly thinking 
of that very emotive newspaper
clipping looking for friends.
Li is looking for friends 
which is very heart rending.
Just this idea
 that you were just saying out there
that there was 203 
did you say friends in the gallery.
There's different stance that we use friends
to mean these people 
who help or assist in an institutional basis.
How those friends 
can be kind and beneficent
but also they can limit you.
This kind of idea 
of not wanting to run by committee
but wanting to have a sense of freedom as well
from one's friendship or from groups.
I just want to run 
with this idea that maybe friendship
and group work can be both 
really satisfying and wonderful.
We want to evoke this idea of conviviality
but also that it can be difficult
 and dangerous and full of conflict.
This has also come up 
before I think today as well.
This idea that that poem that we saw
where there was unrequited love and no woman
no friends for Christmas.
This idea of at once 
having all of these great friends
and all of this support for Li
but also a lack of belonging.
I was thinking about
 the different ideas of group
and friendship that both 
of your papers gave us or discussed.
This sounded like the formative moments
of Li practice in your paper, Lesley
and then in your paper
 this idea of give-and-take
between Li and Winifred.
I was so fascinated
 with this idea of agreement
and disagreement 
and him feeding back to her as well as--
I suppose she talked 
to him about his work as well.
This idea of them having
a dialog across generation
across very different practice 
is totally fascinating and rare.
This also this is also [?]
where you've purposely tried to disrupt
all of these curatorial narratives
 that we might want to fixate upon.
Then also just because
 I'm thinking about Kettle's Yard.
You mentioned Kettle's Yard a few times too.
In the sense that there are other institutions
which are built around 
this idea of being a friend to artists.
A friend to artists 
is what Jimmy had always called himself
he was the founder of Kettle's Yard.
This idea of living with artworks
he showed us a lot 
of artworks in Winifred's house, [?].
Just how these private
 collections or artworks
that circulate between friends offer us
very different ideas 
of conversation or dialog with artworks
different ideas about history, potentially.
Also, practically she brought 
artworks to support people
and Jimmy did the same as well.
Those are some trails that I wanted
to pick out between 
the papers that you presented
but I just wanted to hear more, Lesley as well.
What you thought the impact 
of those groups was on Li.
Do you think that was the dialogue and exchange
that really shaped his work 
[?] do you think Winfred
had an influence on Li and his work?
-Thank you for your question.
I think the early period of the [?] group
as I showed they were all exploring
these pre-modern motifs 
from scripts, oracle [?] and such.
It's a collective exploration
everybody looked at the same sources
but then each took away something different.
In the end they all were trying to look
for this mystical beginning 
of this ancient culture.
Which not necessarily has to be Chinese
but is universal and ancient
 in Chinese at the same time.
I think you see those motifs
 coming back in his tapestries, rugs and later
these kind of almost universal symbols
 as simplified hieroglyphs, if you will.
I think that collective pursuit early
on his career was informative.
It also planted the seeds for later works.
When you said earlier that group work could be
satisfying and dangerous.
I think when you're in 
a small group of artists bound
by certain circumstances
 there are competitions
there are people
 who are more vocal than others.
Some are more fortunate and things like that.
Li is actually quite
 a silent member of this group
even though I think his work is very explosive.
Each of them left Taiwan at different times
and care for each other's work
but I feel when I talked to them
there is a little bit of competition, I think.
Anybody who worked with groups understand
this kind of curiosity of what others are doing
but at the same time competitive 
in a perhaps constructive and friendly way.
That's inevitable in looking
 at painting societies or groups.
We should also think
 about the groups banded together
in exhibitions by circumstance
but also by necessity.
Because there weren't many 
places for exhibitions
during that time in Taiwan.
It was totally self-organised.
Those are, when you have like-minded people
in your private lesson group
of course if you get invited
or there was a chance
 you would exhibit together.
You'll see their work developed
 in totally different routes later on
but in that early beginning
 they have the same point of departure.
-It's a really quite dynamic
 friendship and over 68 to 81.
There's a good period of time and things change
and they go up and down, and so on.
Li wasn't always the easiest of people.
If you talk to Andy Christian[?] he says that Winifred
had a wonderful understanding 
of what he was saying.
How much she actually influenced 
what he was doing I don't know.
I suspect--
-Can I just say from what he said to me
that her friendship 
was terribly important to him.
I'm quite sure that one
 of the things that contributed
to his loneliness towards
 the end of the LYC and the closure.
I think he closed it
 it may have been later if she had've lived longer.
I think she was a completely 
important part of LYC and of Lee's feeling.
It was a wonderful friendship.
It was mutually beneficial.
-Just a recap she died earlier in 1981.
He closed at the end of 1982-
-[crosstalk] said to me.
It was almost a contributing factor to closing.
-Perhaps we could open out.
Does anyone have any questions? [?].
-Hi, just a question for Lesley
about the publication 
of the [?] society with painters
and writers contributing voice.
I was just wondering [?] about [?] implications
and that relationship.
I was wondering if this was a common practice
probably the norm at the time.
[?] publication made 
in collaboration with writing poetry [?]?
-The two publications that I talked about
the two that I showed the covers.
One of them is self-funded
the more short-lived one.
The other one- -was also private funding
but the person had some backings 
in the journalistic community.
These two, I should have clarified
they're not military-backed
but there are other
 military-backed publications.
They're all these different circulations
of publications that were going on in Taiwan
at the time that allowed 
for these creative experiments.
I think my thesis or hypothesis
is that because of this publication
culture is quite prevalent during that time.
Youngsters who are creating
or going to exhibitions
or making poetry will be very well aware
of who's being published this month 
and who's making what publication.
Perhaps that has succumbed 
to Li's later on work.
Where this is a place where you could create
a virtual community by mail
 or by inviting people
how you could create
 sparks amongst different
disciplinary practitioners.
-Thank you.
-I'd just like to ask a follow-up question
about the circulation of those journals.
Because I see very similar juxtapositions
between abstract expressionism
 and with calligraphy
ink painting but also this new kind
of cultural painting practice happening
 in a couple of Japanese journals.
[?] are also doing these kinds of juxtapositions
and I'm wondering, to what extent 
do these journals circulate within Asia?
-A very good question and I know you work
on the Japanese journals.
I've asked the artists, a lot of them
that I work on are still alive in their 80s.
They are-
[coughing]
-aware of the Japanese publications at all.
The magazines that I featured
in this presentation circulated
amongst the Chinese communities in Asia.
I know this because their prices
 in the mass head listed Taiwan
Hong Kong, Singapore, Malaysia and the US.
These overseas offices
 that they had are in fact
friends they have in those locations.
[laughs] 
I think it's very similar in a lot
of the publication practices in these groups.
There was almost no knowledge of their--
My dissertation 
had a whole chapter on this
but they know something 
of Japanese arts and culture
but not the [?] group, not the calligraphers-
-They might have known
about [?] from Japan, right?
-Some of it, yes.
[?] came in from the [?] .
Also their teacher and from the publications
that are at the American libraries
we call it USIS libraries 
that are in these Pacific regions.
Sort of indirectly.
I guess Hsiao Chin also 
was already in Spain and Italy in 1950.
He was actually very actively writing reports
from Europe to send to United Daily News
the first newspaper that I mentioned.
It's a very individual news broadcasting
for artistic movements from abroad
through these very singular channels [?].
-I have another question for Lesley.
I was really curious, it sounded like Lee
had a really great thing going on in Taipei.
I'm wondering why he moved to Bologna
and also considering 
his humble origins, I wonder how he--?
-The legends had it that Hsiao Chin
his friend was already 
showing in Italy, living in Italy
and exhibited a work of these.
Apparently Dino Gavina went to see the show
and said something like
 "I would love to meet this artist".
Somehow a letter got to Lee.
The legends had it that Lee showed up in Bologna
and said, "I'm this person 
that you wanted to meet".
Gavina was open and welcoming
and hence started his residency in Bologna.
-I think what happened is also that Dino Gavina
actually sponsored him to be able to go there.
-Again, it's a singular channel of serendipitous.
-What do sponsor financially or in terms of visa.
-In terms of Visa.
I think the impetus for Li to go was literally
they had this kind of creative
arts scene amongst this small group
but this was still
 a very politically impressive place.
For someone 
who always wanted the space of freedom.
I keep on referring back to space and freedom
because these were really
 two important concepts in his life.
Having been to these military orphanages
over and over again to end up 
in Taipei Teachers College
which is also military run.
He was still living that institutional life.
The art circles was a different thing
but it was very politically depressive
there was a lot of poverty.
It wasn't the best life.
I think he wanted to get 
away from that and that's my understanding.
-I think there's also the artistic atmosphere
was vibrant in the sense of
there's a lot of creativity 
coming out of this impoverished situation.
As I also alluded to the Fifth Moon Group
was much more endorsed by the establishment
as a rivalry between groups
 I mean they all know each other.
The Fifth Moon artists some
of them got Rockefeller grants to go to the US.
Because of the education system
National Normal College teaches
after you graduate
you teach high schools or universities.
Whereas the college that Li went to
and his friends went to
 you become an elementary school teacher.
So differences in salary and social status.
There had been researchers
 in Taiwan had argued
that because of the more humble beginnings
and less strong backing 
of [?] that lead them
to leave Taiwan when they can.
I'm a little bit doubtful of that argument
because they also had strong
 support from people of influence.
I think a lot of them was driven
 by personal reasons if there's--
In fact, during that time if you have to means
you will go abroad 
and there was only the one-way ticket
it's not coming back.
I think the outside world, in the Chinese saying
"The moon outside is rounder"
[laughter]
So there's perhaps that, too.
-I had a question.
What [?] particularly just inspired
by the photograph that is behind us.
We've seen some really 
incredible photographs
of both Lee and Winifred's lives today.
I just wonder, is it that serendipity
and that people were around them taking these photographs
and we do have this kind 
of documentation of their worlds?
Or were they interested in that 
as well as having documents of their life
and their friendships
and to prompt it, that recording.
Because often you wish when you're working artists
that you have photos
 of exhibitions and openings
and they're never in the archive
but it seems like
 there's such a rich archive here.
-Have you met Richard DeMarco?
[laughter]
This one that I showed
 in the beginning with Richard DeMarco.
I know a lot of the ones Hammad showed
There's a big archive there
we owe a huge debt to him.
Winifred wasn't interested 
in taking these sort of photographs.
It's quite, if I can talk about it a bit more
it's quite interesting
 that she's sitting on the fabric
which would've been made
 by the Edinburgh Weavers
which was run by a friend of hers, Alice [?].
The cups are from Leech pottery St Ives
 and the blue picture behind is by Kate.
From the sort of thing that 
she would've showed in her show at Li's.
I think it was '74, '75--
-[crosstalk] the yellow table cloth
 there is a good yellow vibe isn't there?
-Oh she liked bright colours.
It's very symptomatic.
One things that we were talking about before is
perhaps she moved pictures around all the time.
She loved to bring up her
 most recent pictures and put them up.
It was constant
 in a sense that her house was her studio but--
-Richard Demarco is extraordinary
and I remember him giving
 a talk at the LYC about his--
He'd taken a group of students 
around the west coast on a sailing boat
the west coast of Scotland on a sailing boat.
I hope that-
-Yes, it's interesting thinking 
about documenting friendships and-
-The one of the three, I took that [?].
-It's a beautiful photo.
-No, I wish I'd taken more.
-Yes, well it's a good reminder to us all.
[laughing]
-Well it's so much easier.
I had a cheap little
and it's expensive then to go and process it.
-Under the gaze of the camera
and with an eye on the time
I think we should 
maybe move on to the next session.
That's okay, but please join me
 in thanking our speakers.
[applause]
