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I have this intellectual thing where I say
to myself, you know, I would date a transgender man.
I also know that I don't know what that would
be like.
[Music]
hey guys, it's Kat it's time for another episode
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But before we do, I would highly suggest as
I usually do to go to your kitchen and grab
yourself some tea.
Now personally I am drinking some youthberry
tea.
If you can't tell from the pink hue of um,
my drink and it is very, very warm in this
apartment.
So I'm probably going to be sipping this quite
a bit.
I might even jump up and get some more tea.
I don't know.
But y'all are just going to have to bear with
me because I'm melting.
So let me take a big sip and then let's get
into this video.
So we're going to have your conversation that
a lot of people have requested that I have.
A lot of you guys have asked me to talk about
this.
But to be honest, Ive been a little nervous
about discussing it.
You know, I don't want to sound ignorant.
I don't want to say things that are hurtful,
but true tea's all about me being honest and
real.
And so I felt like I would be honest and real
about this subject and maybe accept the blow
back if I get any!
'
We're going to be talking in this video about
why I have not dated a transgender man.
So [laugh] I want to say that, um, I'm nervous
about having this conversation because there
are so many parallels, right?
To how people could talk about me.
And I don't want to say things that make people
dysphoric or make people upset.
But again, this was a really requested video
and I felt like, you know, I needed to come
and say how I felt.
Um, so one of the reasons why I made this
video is because I've throughout this series,
spoken a lot about men
and a lot of times when I've discussed men
on it's been cis men, right?
I haven't, um, I guess...
I remember I got a comment that was like,
you don't mention trans men.
When you mentioned dating men,
do you not think that trans men are men?
And to be honest, I didn't really understand
that particular reading of my conversations
about men.
You know, I am a very social woman who is
unfortunately quite tragically straight and
I go out a lot and men talk to me and it,
you know, it is what it is.
And most of those men are cis, right?
It's not like I've actively rejected trans
men.
It's not like I have on any of my dating profiles.
Trans men don't contact me.
It's just that I haven't really had a lot
of experiences.
Now I will be very, very forthcoming and honest
with you guys and say that.
There was definitely a time in my life where
I did write trans men off completely and totally.
But right now, um, I definitely have recognized
that I could date trans men.
Now, one of the things that, um, I think is
so relevant in a lot of conversations we have
about dating preferences
is that I personally sort of believe that
a lot of people, a lot of people's minds are
opened up when they're exposed to certain
things.
You know, when I sort of had my opinion that
I would not date trans men, the sort of trans
men that I met just happened to be trans men
that I wasn't attracted to.
But since then I've been exposed to several
trans men that I have found attractive and
that's helped me sort of put the pieces together
and understand that I would probably date
a trans guy.
I just haven't met one yet that I would.
Now there's a parallel here because in my
own personal life I've definitely been a lot
of men's first transgender experience
and that's always been something that I...
Well not always.
There was definitely a time where when I was
younger and I was a guys' first time experience,
it was like a badge of honor, you know, like
it was something to be proud of.
Now with time recognize that men are not worth
that amount of, you know, excitement.
But for a while I really sort of felt like,
you know, um, if I was a guy's first, it was
this sort of big thing right?
Now the problem that I, that I've kind of
experienced with being men's first is that
when you are someone's first experience,
there was always that risk that they may try
something and totally withdraw.
They may actually be interested in you.
They may actually be attracted to you,
but when it comes to doing anything, you know,
they may shut down.
And I've had several experiences like this.
I've had several experiences where I'm talking
to a guy, he's really, really interested in
me.
I'm really, really interested in him.
He's attracted to me.
He either knows that I'm trans, um, or I tell
him that I'm trans and he's like, cool, I'm
okay with that.
And then, you know, I...
we get down to business and he freaks out,
just freaks out and can't do it, right?
Can't do it.
And as a trans person that's been particularly
painful,
I mean honestly I sort of have to go through
life right now sort of swallowing the fact
that I'm going to have a lot of exchanges
and interactions with men
who are very, very attracted to me but are
unwilling to pursue me because I'm not cisgender.
I have several men in my life right now who,
um, you know, we get along, we like each other.
There's mutual attraction, but our relationship
can only go so deep because they can't get
over the trans thing.
Now that doesn't mean that they're not nice
to me.
That doesn't mean that they're not kind to
me.
But it does mean that ultimately they are
not willing to be what I want.
And that is sometimes really upsetting.
It's sometimes very upsetting for me to be
in a situation upon situation upon situation
where I'm given this sort of like...
I see what could happen, right?
I see where we could go.
And what I could do and what sort of relationship
I would have.
And then my transness completely contradicts
it or completely cancels it out.
You know, men would be willing to give me
the world.
At least they said that they would, but then
they find out that I'm trans and it's suddenly
like, oh, well hmm.
And that's really, really, really painful
for me.
So I'll be honest and say that I'm definitely
attracted to trans men.
I mean I, um, matched with this trans guy
on Okcupid the other day.
I have my, my okcupid set to include transgender
men.
Um, and he was really, really handsome,
and I will say, and this is part of the problem
with this conversation, I think it is relevant..
And I know that this is something that's probably
really hurtful to hear for some people, but
the trans men that I tend to be attracted
to look like the CIS men that I tend to be
attracted to.
You know, I am very kind of attracted to the
kind of men that look like they could throw
me across the room.
Okay.
They know.
That sounds, um, you know, but I like what
I'd like, you know, I like what I like, you
know, I like a good bearded, man, you know,
maybe a guy who's a little thick, a little
bit,
you know, a little cuddly or whatever.
I like a big sort of, you know, man.
Um, and the kind of trans men that I have
found myself attracted to look like that.
And I know that there's, there's a conversation
here about whether or not that is transphobic
or cis-sexist or you know, all these other
things.
But that's how I feel.
And one of the issues that I've had with having
this conversation and having other conversations
is that I find that people often want to over
politicize some of these conversations about
attraction.
You know, um, a lot of times we have these
conversations and people say, Oh, you know,
if you were really onboard with all this stuff,
none of these things would matter.
I mean, we have a similar conversation, um,
when it comes to discussions of trans women.
I remember when I did a video with my ex,
right?
And it got re posted on all these LGBT sites.
Right.
A lot of people were upset because he was
willing to claim to openly claim a trans person,
but a trans person who was passable or who
was read as cis, right.
That's who he was willing to claim and he
probably wouldn't have had a similar relationship
with someone who wasn't that way.
You know?
And so the sort of frustration I get when
we have this conversation is, I don't really...
I understand the criticism of, you know, sometimes
when we express these things, it says that
it makes it seem like the only people who
deserve relationships are the people who pass
the only can call deserve relationships with
people who look, cis, I do get that.
I also don't really know where we could take
this conversation because to be honest, I've
been in a lot of situations where, again,
men have made exceptions for me.
They like cis women, they, they are, they've
all throughout their life, been exclusively
interested, interested in cis women.
They meet me and they're attracted to me.
They're interested in me.
They want to go and they wanted to pursue
something with me.
But what ends up happening is it's too much
of a square peg in a round hole.
You know, they will go, they will in what
their mind might be put aside their usual
preferences,
put aside their general desires to pursue
something with me.
Um, and often times because I'm not what they're
used to because I'm not what they usually
like or what they usually want.
It doesn't work out.
And so my sort of thing with a lot of people
who do this like, well you shouldn't, you
know, we shouldn't have these conversations
or people shouldn't have certain preferences
is I personally,
cause I've been through it several times,
think that it's a lot more hurtful to date
somebody who sort of has these feelings about
something.
And had to put them aside
only to have them ultimately be like, yeah,
I like what I like, you know?
It's not, that's not a dynamic that I want
to be in.
Right.
And so I have this intellectual thing where
I say to myself, you know, I would date a
transgender man.
I also know that I don't know what that would
be like and I'll be real and say that sometimes
my hesitation with pursuing transgender men
does come.
From what I know, it feels like to be a person
who
someone is attracted to physically, but they
just can't do it.
To me that's so painful.
That's so hurtful.
And I worry about putting trans men in a position
where maybe I am attracted to them.
Maybe I do have an interest in them.
Maybe we do really get along, but maybe, I
don't know actually because I've never been
in this situation.
Maybe I just can't do it.
I don't know.
And that I not, I don't know, sort of space
makes me feel really nervous because again,
I don't want to hurt someone in the way that
I've been hurt.
Um, and so that's been really the reason why
I haven't dated a Trans Guy.
Um, the guy that I matched with on, OKCupid
the other day.
Um, he was very, very cute and, um, unfortunately
it was just visiting.
I don't, I mean, I do know...I was about to
complain about people who use dating apps
while they travel.
But then I remembered that when I was in London,
I went on like three dates with, with guys
on Tinder.
So I'm gonna hit, I'm a hypocrite.
What else is new?
He was just traveling, so, you know, he may
or may not be back in town, I don't know.
But that's kind of a rare, uh, uh, a rare
situation.
It's very, very rare that I have even come
across, first of all, even come across a trans
guy.
I mean, even in all of the, all of the sort
of sex positive, you know, I'm gothy, body
positive BDSM-y spaces that I exist in,
, even in all these, these spaces.
I think I've probably only ran into maybe
three trans men at tops, at least that I've
known of.
Probably three.
I think three's a good number.
I've been out here for two years, you know,
I just don't find that I, in that I've run
into trans men very often, you know?
Um, and I'm the sort of person where I do
like for things to be sort of organic.
One of the reasons why....
You guys have...
I've been caught now because I just revealed
that I had undeleted my Okcupid,
which is.....
Not...still not going well...
I was going to say that I like to organically
meet people and the reason why I deleted my
OKCupid pages,
because I recognized that a lot of times when
you meet people from, you know, these dating
sites, you're not really meeting people who
could integrate into your life.
You're meeting people who often exist completely
outside of your own experience and completely
outside of your world.
And you've got to either bring them in or
you've got to come into their world.
Right?
And I just kinda got tired of that and decided
that I wanted to sort of try to date people
who are actually in my world.
Right?
And so I'm not going to go out of my way to
find a trans guy to prove a point.
You know?
I would rather if I met a trans guy and we
connected and there's mutual attraction, see
where that goes.
But I still don't quite know where it could
go or where it would go.
I don't know.
And I'm still afraid of sort of putting a
trans guy into that situation.
So that's what I had to say on that!
So I'm very, very curious to hear what you
guys have to say about this.
I would love to hear from Trans men if you've
been in similar situations I've been in where
you date somebody who is attracted to you,
who just can't do it.
Cause I've heard that a lot with um, trans
women, but I have not heard that a lot with
trans men.
I'm very, very curious if you've been in that
situation.
And I'm also curious to hear how you guys
think about what I said.
Um, because honestly
I don't want it to sound ultimately problematic
because I would date trans men.
I just haven't met one that I would,
you know, I've met several trans men.
I think I meet the most transgender men when
I do my speaking,
you know, because that's just where people
go.
But in general, I just don't run into them.
And so that's a big reason why it hasn't happened.
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