"Oh look", I hear you say to yourself, "it's
a chubby guy with various tattoos and a big,
stupid, hipstery beard. This is some kind of
food show, isn't it?" Well, you're only half
right. Because this is also a science show.
I'm Kevin Glidden from the Tasmanian Institute
of Agriculture and this is Cooking With Science.
I find interesting people who research food
and I match them up with interesting people
who make food. I'm not very interesting at
all, so I balance the whole thing out really
nicely. My guests today are Ole Mouritsen
and Adam James. What are we gonna talk about?
Stick around and you'll find out.
Ole Mouritsen is a professor of Gastrophysics from Denmark's Copenhagen University.
He understands taste on a neurological level.
He can tell you why,
for example, you can look at a picture of
a green apple and feel the sourness
on your tongue.
Sadly, it has little to nothing to do with your being a superhero.
He's also
written several books on food, including a
brilliant look at seaweed and its many uses,
hence this eloquent establishing shot 
of us walking on the beach.
Adam James really, really
likes fermented food. So much so he packed
up and went on what he refers to as a "fermentation
world tour", which I can only assume is what
many, many uni students will now name their
next pub crawl.
Adam's Churchill Fellowship-backed tour took him to places like
Denmark, Korea,
Italy, and Japan
to study ancient and modern fermentation techniques.
KEVIN: I can probably
describe a dish I had 30 years ago, but I
probably couldn't tell you what the oxygen
was like at my 5th birthday party. Do you
think- Why do you think that it is that we're
so obsessed with taste
out of all of our most basic needs?
OLE: When you say taste, it's
actually just as much the nose. Because we're
using all our five senses when we say 'taste'
or 'taste experience.' But it's correct that
taste and in particular odor is very good
to invoke memories. I mean, good memories
and bad memories. And that's because that's
the way it's hardwired in the brain. These
centres that store our memories are close
to the limbic centre, and where also the memories,
the processing centres for taste and odor
are in the same area. So, you can be brought
back to your grandmother's kitchen in no time.
KEVIN: So why do you think that we, we know
the things we like, but we can't quite get
into why we like them?
OLE: It's not always true that we know what we like,
and that's quite clear, for instance, with children.
The preference of food depends on context.
And of course there are some basic tastes
and odors you prefer. We are born to like
sweet and umami. KEVIN: Sure. OLE: And we're
born to dislike bitterness and too much sourness.
But our preferences change over time.
KEVIN: Why do you think that fermented foods played
such a big part in, in other cultures' diets
but not necessarily in the Western diet as
it developed?
ADAM: Pretty much every culture around the world
does have fermented foods
in their diet, um, and has done for a very
long time. But if you look at more, kind of,
you know, for me, my biggest influences are,
kind of, you know, Japan, Korea, China. They
eat fermented foods with pretty much every
meal, be it in the form of a pickle or in some
soy sauce. But again, I think that's something
that has been a part of their food culture.
Families would sit down and, you know,
make kimchi together.
OLE: If we want to learn
about making old-fashioned pickles,
we'll not ask our mothers, we'll ask our grandmothers.
Because the knowledge is lost- ADAM: It is,
it's not being passed on. OLE: Maybe it's
coming back because of you and others who
are actually bringing fermentation back.
ADAM:
Interesting thing about this congee, or what
I really like about making it, is that it's
not using a chicken stock or a duck stock,
which is the traditional, kind of, base. I
chose to use shiitake mushroom, fresh tomato
and bull kelp. KEVIN: It tastes almost- BOTH:
Meaty. ADAM: It does. KEVIN: Beefy. ADAM:
It does, exactly. And that comes from, you
know, those meld of umami-rich flavours.
KEVIN: So, I have to say this is, first of all, by
the way, one of the best congees I've ever
had, hands down. Ole, you are, I would say,
a master of taste and umami and you have written
a book on seaweed. Where does this rank
in terms of congees that you may have 
tried over the years?
OLE: I can definitely say this
is the best I've had. And it's, to me it's
the ultimate umami experience. It gives you
appetite when you stick it in your mouth,
the saliva starts running, it's a very good
way of getting appetite. We have receptors
in the stomach, in the intestinal system,
that signals back to the brain that that is
umami-rich food and it'll eventually tell
you to stop.
KEVIN: So I'm missing those,
is what you're saying, which is why I just
keep shoveling it in my mouth over and over again.
OLE: But, it's actually a knowledge
one could use in order to
make more healthy eating patterns.
KEVIN: You're both obviously
very adventurous and understand taste on a
deep level, but what's the worst thing you've
ever eaten.
ADAM: The most challenging, um,
is called narazushi. Which is I've been told
is actually the precursor to sushi as we now
know it. And it's um, crucian carp, which
is fermented. And basically, inoculated rice,
in like koji barrels. And they bury these
whole fish, again, to preserve them. So there's
not only koji, but there's also lactobacilus
in there. It's incredibly sour. It's kind
of yogurty. Tastes like, kind of like bleu
cheese. Kind of like fish.
KEVIN: You're covering a lot of bases there.
ADAM: It's really an
assault on your palate. Like, it actually,
like the smell was on my hands for days.
KEVIN:
Ohhhh, it would be. It's burned into your brain.
OLE: I think it's probably very similar
to the fermented shark in Iceland and the
fermented herring in Sweden. But it's very
interesting... We've been talking about fermentation,
because most people don't know that sushi
actually originated as a way of preserving fish.
KEVIN: I did not know that, no.
So there
you have it, Cooking With Science.
Who knew that foodies and researchers had so 
much in common?
Well, the researchers knew it. And-
the foodies- the foodies have always known
it. And I knew it, I'm the one who came up
with the idea for the show, so... Oh well,
I hope you've enjoyed it. Oh, and for those
of you who are about to make a joke and say
"this guy's clearly just doing it for the
free food"? You're only half right. I'm also
doing it for the free science.
See ya next time.
