hey everyone norm here a little bit of a
spoiler warning before we start this
episode because today we are going to be
reviewing and talking about Star Trek a
car the pilot episode that will be
dropping today on CBS all access now if
you're watching the video we will be
talking about the show and when we get
to spoilers at around the 20-minute mark
we will turn the TV behind us red and
when spoilers are done the TV will
switch back to the tested logo if you're
listening to the audio and you want to
skip all talk of spoilers you can skip
ahead to around the 47 or 48 minute mark
of the episode or you want to jump
directly to spoilers you can go jump
ahead to around the 20-minute mark just
a little bit of heads-up and in the
future episodes we'll save all our
spoiler talk to the end of the episode
enjoy for Thursday January 23rd 2020
welcome to this is only a test the
official podcast of tested
hello and welcome to a very very special
episode of the Sicilian tests we are
through the Nexus I'm norm here with
Jeremy Williams hello Norman and Shaw
hurry hello
could you imagine gentlemen 17 years ago
that we 17 years later in the year 2020
in the 21st century we would be talking
about a season premiere of a Star Trek
show starring Sir Patrick Stewart mmm
himself jean-luc Picard because the card
is out that's a good question that's a
good question would you have imagined at
the time
no that that Patrick Stewart would be
everyone's favorite captain 20 years
later oh I think in if you don't
remember in the early 90s when Star Trek
next generation concluded he was the
favorite captain already right but at
the time you saw more Star Trek's coming
in the future yes yeah well ds9 was
already airing and Cisco was a very
unconventional captain of course
favorites for many people Janeway was
still the horizon first female captain
for leading a TV series and the
enterprise yeah and then no one really
liked pike the way we like pike right
now post Star Trek discovery you know
and of course it's a it's it's a topic
worth revisiting at some point
reevaluating now both movie and TV
captains maybe for a future episode but
today we're gonna talk about Star Trek
Picard because as you're listening to
this right now as this episode is
released who knows when you're listening
to this hopefully as soon as the episode
drops but Star Trek Picard is out
globally or at least the United States I
don't know I don't know recently
scheduled globally but CBS Interactive
drop them at 9 p.m. through Wednesday
night Pacific 1200 and a.m. Eastern Ave
recording lists a day early so maybe our
fingers are crossed there were no
problems with the release of the
episodes but it doesn't matter because
folks are here to tell ya the three of
us in this room we've seen the future I
appreciate that
early in 2020 the
producers at CBS decided this year as
garbage we're gonna transport you to the
2300 s at the end of the 2300 it's gonna
be the turn of the century at some point
yeah they're gonna go to the 25th
century Star Trek is so for so long been
about the 24th century late 23rd century
that I'm excited for them to bridge into
the 25th century how are we gonna talk
about Picard now we can't let's be
upfront I'm being honest we have seen
the show we've seen the first three
episodes of the show there are reviews
out right now other people have talked
and and for subscribers of the channel
we're gonna do a full offworld episode
still to be recorded work ashore UI and
Ariel will do a deep dive into the
episodes and also perhaps partake in
some shots whoa Picard red wine 2386
good vintage good vintage indeed I think
we should it's not 84 that gave our
general thoughts and then do a kind of
spoiler dive into episode 1 okay so
let's have the premise for people whom
if we've not been following the
development of the show this is on CBS
Interactive subscription base streaming
service it's gonna be eight episodes so
that what is called lis interactive I
thought it was all access sorry CBS all
access CBS I named the company we're
talking about it's separating a receive
us all access my apologies it's eight
episode at nine episodes so right I
thought it was eight I thought it was
eight to I'm but release weekly much
like Star Trek discovery it is starring
Patrick Stewart
we know that members of next generation
cast members will appear you've seen
them in trailers most notably if you saw
the comic-con trailer from last year
rights minor makes an appearance as data
in some capacity but it's largely about
his his some omission he takes with a
relatively new cast of characters it is
said of course twenty years after Star
Trek nemesis and one of the reasons that
Patrick Stewart said he wanted to find
the returns Picard not only because it
felt right in today's day and age
Star Trek being a beacon of hope and
so science-fiction being a mirror to
reality as it always is but also there
were storylines and parts of the
character he felt it was unfinished and
now was perhaps a right time to tell a
new story to reflect on those arcs and
those threads which the show does so
thoughts all right let's start with
Jeremy because Jeremy you most recently
binge watched as a family your entire
family Star Trek next generation were
you able to catch up on the movies not
recently I would say over the past five
years we meet but we've watched all of
next generation and then this past week
I did my homework with my son we watched
all four next generation move tell us
about that
how did he and you exude never seen the
more bad of course I've seen some of the
movies I thought I'd saw three of them I
knew I hadn't seen nemesis okay which by
the way most important film to watch him
Picard that's a really good point right
well I'd seen generations when it came
out and I had seen obviously first
contact we watched those enjoyed them
they were fine they don't I wouldn't say
the special effects aged terribly well I
think first contact special effects aged
really well they're fine they're fine
but then you go on to interaction
special effects not some why not some
deals until nineteen fifties when there
was when the enterprise crashes into the
planet and you got I mean that's not
your actual effect it feels like an
episode exactly that's in generation and
know that's an insurrection when they
correction when they know generations at
the end is when the saucer section
crashes the arrive trees you are
absolutely right you know they blur
together when you watch after another
the insurrection does feel like extended
episode which i think is not a fault no
I actually I'd like tan introduction I
felt like insurrection went back to what
you were saying like a mirror to you
know society and it certainly had a
point to make and I like that about Star
Trek I like that it tries to make a
sociological point tries to show you
something about you know your world that
you live in and make you think a little
different yes steps off it steps on its
future soapbox that said it's an odd
movie the odd number which makes it a
bad one and it did get like a fifty
something rotten tomato I
as did nemesis which I thought was much
better you like nemesis I did have a
system it's perhaps the most
controversial is it because it's the
most action oriented people really Star
Trek fans yeah some Star Trek fans
really don't like the tune buggy is real
weird it was written by I think Sean
Logan who had done like Last Samurai who
and a bunch of big epic sweeping epic
movies and yeah and it felt like a lot
of I mean we're gonna put spoilers for
nemesis because that's a 20 year old
movie but the death of data was left the
bitter taste in a lot of people's mouths
so yeah they discover a new Android
that's uh named before oh how clever
which is a data look-alike prototype yes
I'm not like Laura though right which
was odd and but and clearly not as
mentally capable as data and data at one
point this is interesting
downloads his entire memory into before
his and Graham's thinking maybe that
will make before like me and it doesn't
however naive there is that element
going into Picard of data has been
backed up and I wonder how that's going
to manifest that's one of the most
interesting threads to me because that's
that's the one thing of data that that
still exists it's a lingering thing in
at the end of its it's a little bit of a
flicker of hope because despite the
sacrifice you have to if you look at the
character before it it's a very I think
it's one of the best scenes in the movie
despite all the shins on stuff and yeah
that's that's the Tom Hardy clone of
Picard Romulan tell gr plot that very
overact very yeah not not great at all
you know it's intrigue in a way that I
did not want intrigue it tried to do
Star Trek 6 to discover the country
which was political intrigue in a very
Shakespearean way with the Klingon
Empire but here it's way way too
overwrought but the the consciousness
transfer thing reminded me a lot of
bones in Spock sorry yeah absolutely I
think that was intentional and it's a
very poignant moment when at the very
end of the movie not only do you have
Riker and Troy married now moving off
the enterprise finally yeah I mean it's
it's kind of unbelievable that you know
in this instance time of post Dominion
war that right
would not have taken a command of his
own ship but because of his loyalty him
he could have he had the option of
commanding his own ship for so many
years throughout the season throughout
the series but they finally take I
believe the Titan is where they leave
the enterprise and so there's a whole
changing of the guard and Picard has
this moment in his ready room where he's
telling before about data and the
importance of data to Picard yeah it was
his son the son he never had
yeah and we know family and legacy is
this huge thread for for Picard's
journey and which is shown not only in
the Star Trek episode family after
espera throats Park - when he goes back
to where you first see the Chateau
Picard and you see his nephew Rene but
they also in Star Trek generations when
you hear that his brother and his nephew
had died in a fire and he is essentially
the last Picard you know so data is his
surrogate son sacrificed himself and so
now he has this kind of we you know kind
of you know dumbed down not as advanced
Android no real personality but it's not
data even though it maybe has some
element of data right and when in that
scene were you talking about in nemesis
where he tries to communicate the data
how important before I'm sorry when
trust communicated before the importance
of that relationship and before just
doesn't get it I know it's so sad yeah
you can see Picard realized that like
the line of communication is broken and
and he feels sad about that and I feel
and not to spoil anything but there that
exists that that kind of scene exists in
Picard and I love that I love that
Picard is trying to reach this high
minded level with people that can't
reach him back hmm
so did you like it I can't tell ya what
I'm just saying I did my homework the
homework part okay so yes I do I did
I thought Picard was was really good I
thought it was dense I thought it was
very different from Star Trek we've been
warned about that if you watch any of
the interviews with Patrick Stewart you
see that he very clearly says this is a
reaction that he has as Patrick Stewart
to the state of the world today and that
not everything is right with the
Federation 20 years later it's not all
good and and I felt like that was what I
prepared
having seen a little bit of discovery
yeah I felt like I wasn't expecting more
of a pg-13 kind of so vibe discover is
really great comparison cuz CBS all
access now has it may have in the works
we talked about this multiple start
live-action Star Trek shows including an
animation show as well discovery is the
show you're watching if one you love the
kind of TOS era because of course it has
the original enterprise you've got Spock
and Pike but also it's a show about a
crew on a ship right it's a classic Star
Trek show a crew on a ship on a missions
a season-long mystery Ark that they then
have to go solve you have kind of aliens
of the week you go on away missions
that's your classic template for a Star
Trek show Picard it seems like is very
different in that it is not that as it
seems so far I mean the first episode
happens on earth if he's on the vineyard
it's about a one man's journey and it
really is almost not only just a more
personal story and that regard but the
perspective isn't an ensemble
perspective right it is just him and and
he is helpless he doesn't have all the
resources that he did he couldn't just
say make it so and and have you know a
bridge crew to advise him on all the
writings he's almost just wandering it's
not jean-luc Picard that we left by any
stretch you've you meet jean-luc Picard
as kind of I would almost say a broken
spirit like he's you can clearly see
he's disillusioned he is isolated he
lacks sort of the charisma and just sort
of Verve that he had when he was captain
of the enterprise
and in a way it's like melancholy I love
how the show so far treats him as if he
is 20 years older because the pacing of
the show the things that he's able to do
the way people interact with him treat
him as this kind of like older person
and in a way push him aside
many points were you is really hard to
see because I think a lot of people when
we first heard the card coming back we
know him as the captain I think in a lot
of our heads we imagine okay he's gonna
be in command of a ship we're gonna get
all the feelings of this brightly lit
enterprise-d you know or even Enterprise
II feel you know is it's not but it's
not that it's not next generation it
feels like a complete different episode
oh we see familiar faces we hear
familiar names and it's shot very
differently I mean I was watching with
with Danica and it's like it's it's shot
almost like an HBO show that's I feel
like that's a matter of just technology
improving and you know camera technology
can becoming more accessible and just
you know it qualen the budgets of shows
like this getting higher I think not
only that but because it's not on a
studio set lot it's not in on a set
right it's not even like discovery where
you have a bridge and you could only
shoot and when you shoot an ensemble
crew on a bridge set or a ready room set
or the engineering you know Bay it looks
a certain way here it's on location I
this is a part of the show I didn't
actually like is how it was shot it was
reminiscent of the 2009 Abrams reboot
there's a lot of like lens flaring it
kind of like general like over
saturation I thought so that wasn't my
favorite thing but that's a minor point
compared to the story and the pacing it
sets up a story I would say without
getting into spoilers episode one paints
a picture picard as a very different
jean-luc Picard and it sets up some
minor mystery conspiracy I would say and
leaves you on a quite the little
cliffhanger so you know Jeremy you
mentioned you in the homework before we
get into spoilers because we will turn
on the red alert light and in talking
about the first episode yeah we let's do
that on the TV let's talk about some
essential homework because if you are
maybe holding off or if you have it
rewatched Star Trek in a long time and
you want to get into Picard or you have
maybe someone you're gonna watch it with
I think you can still watch the show and
they kind of they they tried
to the watchman thing and feed you
enough exposition to let you know what's
going on but they're definitely things
they're gonna miss if you haven't seen
some particular episodes so I'm just
going to list off if you have time in
the weekend if you can hold off on
watching the first episode of car or if
you want to watch episode one first and
then rewatch the stuff and go back i
recommend or wait to the end of the
season and bin Jamal oh yeah that's ten
episodes by the way not 8 episode 10
episodes of Picard I would absolutely
recommend that you watch and doesn't
have to even be in this order best of
both worlds part 1 & 2 that's the
episode next generation season finale of
season 2 and our source yeah 2 3 season
3 and then yes opening of season 4
measure of a man absolutely should watch
now are these 1 are these just great
episode you're recommending or ones that
tie into I think art both that tied to
his character okay and also some plot
points okay
you should actually watch Eyeborg for
sure that's the episode where hue hue
appears and of course Hugh we know is
Jonathan until our Co is on on the show
mm-hm
you should also watch the reunification
episode I would say yes reunification
part 1 & 2 totally from nemesis
absolutely chain-of-command part 2 to
see him broken yes inner light I think
it's worth watching and then also I'm
gonna name two episodes that I think you
should watch The Offspring which is
season 3 episode 16 this is a data
centric episode as well as the battle
I'm gonna say you guys ask a lot of your
students that's the Stargate or the one
with the Stargate that's a lot of
homework guys just watch Star Trek
nemesis story nemesis I think is
absolutely maybe the watch that as the
last thing you I mean honestly going in
watching the car watching Picard I
really felt like the whole team on
Picard watched Star Trek nemesis and
said what do we do now like I really
felt like they'd be a bit there's
there's parallels that go beyond like
the plot like that well we had talked
about last week how the the JJ Abrams
Kalvin verse you know the place in which
the Calvin verse diverts from the main
Star Trek continuity that itself is a
big kind of plot point and and a thing
that's reference and and definitely
talked about in picard which is of
course the destruction of Romulus the
supernova that which that happens after
nemesis so much yeah much many years
after nemesis we if you read the
countdown comics that led up to the 2009
Star Trek you find out that not only was
Spock it was Spock and the you know
various members of the crew of the
enterprise D in the next generation
we're trying to save Romulus from the
save the Romulans from the structure in
Romulus Spock of course fails in sending
the red matter into the Sun he's too
late so I'm go supernova and that's what
causes Nero to adopt Borg technology go
back in time and and then create the
Kelvin verse right but that event that
event in common to both is consequential
for for Picard and not only for Star
Trek 2009 yeah and the Kelvin verse okay
but the countdown comics aren't
technically continuity anymore
for example in the countdown comics I
think before has if you want to know
what happens to be for in the fans head
Canon if you read the countdown comics I
believe you VL elevates to become a
captain well it becomes data essentially
at some point and that is not a path I
think this show is it's necessarily
taking well alright is it time for
spoilers yeah you gonna put some on the
screen we got what you got I'll put up
and I'll make it read hey gun can you
make it flash let's not make things
flash okay
that's good idea okay okay well sure is
making the background red how do we
usually want it there we go it's red
it's red for sure how do we want to talk
about we're gonna talk about the first
episode first of all you guys are
gluttons I can't believe you did it when
you were given access to three episodes
you didn't have to watch him no one else
in the world is gonna be able to watch
all three episodes all we can see is the
first one plenty of people have watched
three episodes the reviewers if you are
given three Star Trek episodes featuring
Patrick Stewart you watch three episodes
of
this is a test it's not like CBS Alex's
PR is like we're gonna put three
episodes in front of you and test your
restraint and and you get the reward if
you show that you can only you only
watch one you guys are a couple of
hyenas who found some carrion on the
highway and you couldn't help yourself
this is a testament to the quality of
the show right we were on slack when we
didn't watch it together we're at home
independently and we were on the slack
and we started roughly the same time in
three hours you know two hour two and a
half hours later these are 44 or 45
minute episodes both cash or an hour
like well I guess we watched things like
I want to be able to talk about it with
all the mystery that is left at the end
of the first episode with our friends
and teacher history our friends who have
also seen the first episode will also be
on that page I don't want you to like
have a look in your I was like just you
wait I know I don't know anything after
three episodes
all right helping all right all right
for the record though I've only seen the
first one okay
twice I liked it I was surprised really
surprised at the pacing and I was
surprised how quickly yes we got dana
linger on mystery it wasn't the cart is
not a dumb person and I'm so glad the
writers move the story along where it's
not like Picard scenes of him like
asking questions for so long like what's
going on what's going on they got to him
deducing who people were and what the
plot was and it got us got it so moving
in the first well we should talk about
the first scene first thing we get data
and we get Mars blowing up in the first
scene mm-hmm the poker scene yeah and
this is obviously a dream which you see
but at the point it sets up the entire
like mystery arc of the show immediately
and you get his even though it's not
revealed till later you get his
disillusion the moment of his
disillusionment yeah yeah the card says
at one point that the the dreams are
wonderful but the waking up is what he
doesn't like mm-hmm yeah so you
definitely you know still living in the
past somewhat or at least that's where
the baggage is it's or you say I said
that the data appearance is a dream
sequence the two brent Spiner
appearances I loved it I know I thought
it makes
more sense if you know I being spoon-fed
fanservice by Star Wars over the last
few years yeah this was such a good use
of fanservice where it was light touch
in service of a story it's not like it's
not a data coming back to life and like
look it's data it was like and brent
Spiner is listed as a special guest star
which means he's not gonna be on every
episode yeah that's right and there will
be social guest stars for the other cast
member cincy well data for data's sake
it was leveraging their relationship to
further the story of where Picard is now
right and and also it helped communicate
some of the new plot development they
filled out some of the details so of
course they tie one of the big events is
the destruction of Romulus they go right
at it there's this Federation News
Network interview this hallow channel
interview where Picard who has not
spoken publicly about this he's given
lectures about his time as captain
Admiral but is upfront about you know
the what's he sees is the tragedy of the
Federation abandoning the Romulans and
this goes to this is where we get the
allusions to modern day world right this
is about one of those powerful you know
organizations nations you know the
Federation as a peacekeeping entity and
a you know it's kind of like the UN of
space space UN not helping with this
rescue and Refugee effort and abandoning
one of their enemies I like how the
exampie mate they did not let that be
black and white either what the the
whole like you got his righteous anger
about the Federation abandoning all
those Romulans so they're gonna die in
the in the supernova but you also heard
from the other side there was like tens
of thousands of people that died on Mars
that day and so wasn't this like oh like
the cards definitely right there's some
element of of gray there which I think
makes it even more powerful I don't know
though I think that that there is more
to it than that like I mean in terms of
Picard being right
think he is more right than that I don't
think it's as even as 50/50 because at
one point the newscaster who who I think
is probably my least like my most hated
person on the entire episode despite the
fact that there are murderers yes no no
doubt that that she's glib and has like
a punchable face yeah look - and she
manipulates Picard and she crosses a
line that she promises not to cross in
that interview but at one point you know
she says you know but there were you
know Picard says there were millions of
lives at stake and it almost was 900
million yeah it was like the numbers
don't like that all right and and she
says you mean Romulan lives and he says
no lives yeah and I just felt like that
was so such a powerful moment and and
that speaks to like where the Federation
might have been head wise as I've been
thinking of Romulan lives as less than
yes and the Utopia I mean the kind of
goes against a little bit of the gene
Roddenberry utopia but the world is more
complex now than ever and the show
really leans into that the Federation is
not this beacon of his perfection right
and we and many Star Trek shows have
kind of shown the dark side of the
Federation but this is even like a
covert dark side this is just Federation
policy and they have to make these tough
decisions and it's all it is politics
and but you also have this Mars
revelation this is a new plot point
where at the same time that the Romulan
plant and the Romulus was was going was
being destroyed the rescue operation was
comprised of ships that were being built
at the Federation shipyards on Mars
which is something that's been long
eluded to know off planet shipyards and
that shipyard was destroyed by a group
of rogue synthetics so this is the other
big plot line not only we've already
talked about Romulans we're also talking
about there's a lot of new world that
we're robots like data are banned
because of this this mysterious attack
a terrorist attack right on the
shipyards which claimed the lives of
90,000 people right do we know what
happened to those synthetics that
attacked were they all destroyed don't
know we don't know don't know but we
know that that whole project in
Federation to create and research
synthetics is shut down
yes and presumably these are synthetics
I think it borrows some of the storyline
from the EMH storyline from Voyager
so in Voyager the data characters
essentially the emergency medical
hologram played by Robert Picardo right
he is the the robot the the avatar that
tries to learn to be human but really
his computer system has its own version
of a personality that's the kind of the
data
Spock type archetype and in one of the
subplots you have this idea that the EMH
system was flawed because all the
programming was not great because it was
a reflection of the Creator Zimmerman
named after the production here Star
Trek Herman Zimmerman I believe and and
I was you know the the the personality
characteristics of the EMH hologram were
too vain and they weren't great doctors
or whatever and you saw in Star Trek at
first contact you had the EMH make an
appearance or everything harsh because
I'd swear never used one of these in
service and they bring up the EMH one of
the Voyager episode showed that the
Holograms themselves gets like in the
episode measure of a man they are
subjugated they are relegated to this
less than human subservient status and
they are sent to work in the mines
essentially it's kind of a far-fetched
idea you send these you oh well we have
these extra Holograms that used to work
on ships now what do you do with them
let's sum them to work in labor camps
and in these mines and it's kind of on
the nose but the Voyager EMH becomes a
this kind of a heroic Spartacus figure
for them and his independence and his
development as a character gives him
inspiration to kind of not necessarily
you know become more self-aware and
self-sufficient and where I think that
storyline is grafted onto the synthetics
here where you have the lingering
effects of but you never find out what
Federation the really thinks of data
outside of the episode measure of a man
once you mentioned earlier right he's a
unique Android we know there are no
androids like him that's owned created
aside from lore we don't know before boa
and before right but it turns out now
that androids were created to be
subservient in the Federation right
before of course the Mars attack 14
years ago before Picard Show and so you
didn't have androids on uh non bridge
crews would you as officers of ships
you mean after data after data now would
you consider data to be subservient no
because you know in measure of man these
fights for his independence and and
exactly myself are a you know
self-actualized person why wouldn't that
then be a part of Federation policy
because they couldn't I don't know if
they could have created more datas
because there was no so many more surely
saying that the androids that they
created didn't have that sense of that
is presentation and independence yes and
that is I think what we're learning is
that the fact in the very fact the
matter that the Android the synthetics
that they're calling them on the show
were you know were maybe they did have
some kind of a Geneva they led this
revolt or let this attack right right
but the fact that they were not on
bridge cruise and you did see you know
we've seen in Star Trek on bridge cruise
like characters that look like they may
have been robots but they're all if you
look at the backstory and what's been
written on on memory alpha they're all
kind of augmented you know humanoid
characters they're not fully full
synthetic characters he this kind of
lays out the show's vision of what has
happened to the state of robot human
affairs in the 24th century what did you
think of his like handlers his helpers
the rhyme II love them they're great
there's some saw best favorite
characters on the show so I love the
juxtaposition of taking his most ardent
enemy from TNG and making them his
strongest advocates in this show they
are like the voice of his conscience his
memory of who he was they constantly are
building him up yeah and then previously
when we saw the the news of the casting
and some of those synopses you assume
that they're just kind of the shop hands
and they helped run the vineyard but
they're much more than that they're
advisers who of the clearly refugees
they're clearly remnants of the
you know the rescue operation and so
these are a man and a woman Alaris and
as a bond and they are badass
I really like their characters they are
the number they are the Ryker and Troy
of this show so far I definitely want
more of them like I really the way that
they believe in Picard is if there is
clear and I want to see them more in the
in the show I don't know if they end up
being in the show more because as we saw
in the trailers he goes off world so I
don't know if how much of a fact you
know how much of a factor they are but I
hope more Jeremy would you think of the
cliffhanger what do you mean the twin
mm-hmm
first of all I think that that the whole
twin thing was was really well inter
woven into the show you know with the
foreshadowed by the two paintings mm-hmm
and the symbol itself of the
interlocking rings I thought that was
great I didn't see that coming but I
thought that was beautifully in her
woven and on the one hand I III think
that the fact that there is this twin
out there that at the end of the show is
Leeds is great for the for the plot but
I I was a little taken aback by how
relieved Picard was to discover that and
as if that relieved some sorrow about
the passing of doge of - gosh yeah the
Tosh character is I think it is tragic
because so much of this first episode
focuses on her and clearly like her
tragic life right and and it feels like
stunts plotting where they introduce a
character you think is gonna be main
character and suddenly she's killed off
right and yeah and sadly because like we
love her like that she's incredible to
watch when she activates right and she's
like Jason Bourne and the fact she
doesn't know she has these abilities and
you want more of that I would the the
ending well I guess the the first ending
of the show where she dies was really
surprising because you think she's gonna
be a main character I definitely was
like I out ably was like what yeah did
that just happen and then
like it like fades to black because they
built in commercial bright now we're
experiencing what Gary felt when he said
he used to watch Star Trek next
generation in the UK and they had
different you know BBC do sky one
whatever whoever broadcast next
generation did not have commercials
between those so fade the block and he'd
understand why right no streaming
service viewers well like we will have
that same experience because we were not
getting the syndicated commercial break
it was a particularly live long pause
you know I felt that too I was like
thank god there's more to this show yeah
yeah but so we go to the ending and
she's aboard this Romulan reclamation
reclamation site that's a big plot point
okay oh my god so we end up there this
is the last scene of the this is the
last shot this is a cliffhanger and this
this mysterious man who appears to have
some sense of authority walks up to the
twin yeah who has you know different
hair but it's clearly the same actress
yes and and introduces himself and he
tries to forge this friendship and he
supposed to be manipulating her into
becoming into opening up to him and then
the camera pans back pulls out and out
and out and out and out and the
reclamation sites like a power of 10 yes
it is it's it's cubed
it's a Borg cube right and cubed is it a
Porky's abort abort but it's not the
Borg cube from first contact is it so
this is unknown right because the pork
cubes have been shown on next-generation
there's definitely the one that was
showed obviously the very appearance of
the Borg the QED episode but the most
famous one is the one at Wolf 359 that's
the the one that was put to sleep by
writers man it did explode and then the
one in the first contact also exploded
and what was left was was the sphere
which then was also destroyed in the
past right so there are many many cute
different give well I would also say
that was brought back with Voyager flew
through that and destroyed it so I would
think this is a cube that in around
faith I don't know
odd that it has like that second Death
Star missing part of it well what does
reclamation mean where's a still under
construction or has it been destroyed I
think disassembled makes a lot of sense
I think that if you're a if you're the
Romulans and your home's been destroyed
and you are kind of rebuilding what used
to be a great Empire and one of the
things you're known for is you know
military might and you have one of the
most powerful weapons in the galaxy on
your doorstep in your what used to be
your space who knows but you of course
take it apart and it goes to why Nero
you know Nero's ship the Narada had Borg
technology explained in the compound
comics and maybe this is where that came
from
you see I never thought of the cube as
being a Death Star I thought of the Borg
themselves as being devastating like
ants but you think about the resource
isn't just the raw materials and there's
a it's a massive baby compared the Borg
cube to any starship right the amount of
mass okay can be harnessed people drones
right there's clearly drones that you
know that are there that they can do
something with you know or parts who
knows yeah but also you're missing the
point is that these twin sister is not a
Romulan yeah why is she there are the
Romulans working with the Federation
here that's what struck me about the
cliffhanger is that it didn't seem like
a CIA black site kind of place it was
like a salvage job well and we like an
organized like corporate salvage job we
didn't talk about the people who are
after uh Josh yeah who are Romulan yes
and yet her twin sister is working on
this ship with Romulans yeah so there's
some there's a disconnect there are
there are Romulans who are who have gone
rogue on one side or the other
yeah and I think this is again going
back to the Nemesis story this goes back
to the Romulan the the the covert ops
the Romulans brought the tau C R and
when Picard comes you know is revived
and he comes to his regains his
consciousness
they tell him that he was the only one
on the feeds so clearly Federation yeah
is is in on this too that was a big jump
where I thought I wish they'd written us
in cuz he wakes up from that explosion
and that was a big explosion yeah like
like Patrick Stewart's kind of old and
you can tell when they swap in a stunt
double for the running James yeah
right but that was a mask he's like
thrown yeah right and you know he seemed
walking with a cane earlier on the
episode it's like oh it's brutal brutal
it something he wakes up back in France
I'm like does he have some like
emergency teleporting tech where as soon
as he's in danger that's funny he gets
teleported back to back home to his his
caretaker isn't it
it is cool how fast they can get from
Paris to Boston - oh yeah okay now we
have transporter technology of course I
love that there was a police report he
woke up in a hospital you know what I
was thinking about what and when that
happened though I was like doesn't the
Federation give a crap about his
jean-luc Picard being like wandering
around on top of their buildings and
getting blown up well it's a cover up
like they're they're clearly covering
that up if they're saying he's the only
thing that was on their feets cuz it's
not a matter of having a cloaking device
like there were explosions mm-hmm
let's talk about who else appears in the
show is his new characters sure learning
of the twin that happens at this
Institute which is clearly a lot of this
is shot in Anaheim right at the Anaheim
Convention Center so that I knew I was
like I recognize one building I don't
know Starcraft 2 finals were here and
that Stadium yeah it's not Okinawa it's
it's Anaheim yeah and and also you know
the you've seen in the trailer they are
on Convention Center we're like
WonderCon and d23 is like that is that's
what they use for Starfleet headquarters
so fleet command of Allison pills in
this show and she's a new character dr.
Agnes jarate one of the last remnants of
the synthetics operation yes and you
get and up here you get your you get the
answer
Jeremy I do - what what - what well you
know you're wondering if this is in
episode one or not it's here it is
that's happening yeah that's the case
he's doing some math I'm mad
that's an interesting character yeah
with an N I'm I'm hopeful that she's
knocking me relegated to a plucky
scientists comic relief that we did get
for with the Tilly character and it's
discovery and but so far I like her
character the well is revealed that they
have before their that's what I'm
talking about young get the answer to
the b4 question and and apparently
almost all of what data downloaded into
before has been lost yeah
so before did not make it to grow and
become data but she talks about how it
given a thousand years they would have
attained this is synthetic purely
biological synthetic with a personality
and independent says lay your ascension
right intentions if they had another
thousand years but if they only had
access to a bit of data in theory they
could have done it that's a little bit
of Voodoo tech yeah but you know it's
wit you watch the intro cinematic you
know the CG thing that they do for the
credits yeah and that's exactly what's
happening there's a little sharp piece
of skin mm-hmm that then gets
manufactured you see the DNA you see the
I I didn't make that connection I formed
hmm
let's talk about the sidebar that for a
second the the intro oh and the theme I
found it unremarkable I did not care for
the theme either
I was really I'm with my heart set like
stomach sank I'm like it's it's not that
evocative Star Trek music it isn't I'm
really miss Jerry Goldsmith in that
moment I read it at the same time yeah
this show isn't that isn't that kind of
show any of you look like the the tone
of the feed for Burkhardt it's a tone of
mystery it definitely has a mystery
angle to it and then it goes into these
strings that are almost lower the ring
like like let's look into his legacy in
past but it wasn't triumphant I kind of
if they were gonna go something more
somber I wish that they had done like
inner light
the song the song and then kind of like
too much fanservice turn that into
something more orchestral I don't know I
like it's not my favorite but maybe it's
gonna match the tone of the show last
thing I'll say is I liked how the first
episode didn't get smashed in with all
these characters we saw in the trailer
we didn't see Jerry Ryan right we didn't
see Ryker we didn't see Troy like all
these things that we saw like leading up
in the trailer didn't show up and I
appreciate the restraint me too we also
got a sense of who the villain of the
show might be Romulans like I mean
they're the ones shooting him coming
name-dropped it's it's Greg Maddux Bruce
Manik Bruce mater he's set up as a as a
hero he is behind the synthetic
operation ruse Maddox is not a hero okay
but he is set up as somebody who Picard
would have supported because Picard was
against the disassembly of the synthetic
operation and he was behind it my
reading of that is that first of all
Bruce Maddox if you don't know is the
villain in the episode measure of a man
he's the one who makes the case that
data has nothing about property oh wow
is he play the same character oh I mean
I mean not he's not in the Bruce Mannix
is the character needs the character
name is it the same actor
I thought he does not shelgon he's not
in this episode I was trying to trick
you see if it's come up yet
but if you get if you read into the
history that one he was against androids
and synthetics having any agency dude
that's huge
I didn't realize he was that character
he was that kid that says a lot about
where the synthetics were headed that's
exactly it where I think if he runs if
he was one who the brilliant scientist
who ran the Federation synthetic
research division yeah of course he
would then create you know a class of
androids that were just subservient to
the Federation that's good
yep gotta kick those thoughts I think
that's as much as we want to say about
the card yes let's put this out to
listeners out there and viewers out
there
do we want week by week recaps well
we're not going to be able to
on the first three because we won't be
able to see them until what we can do
one one week later yes we could do one
week later yeah I have one last question
how do you think this held up versus
other Star Trek premiers um I thought it
was I thought I'd hold up pretty well
it's still not my favorite premiere it's
the first Star Trek premiere that's a
continuation of a that you get all the
benefits and baggage of the past
character so I don't think you can
evaluate it on the same playing field
but it's way better than Farpoint which
was weird
yes I mean they yeah it's better than a
lot of Star Trek premieres I don't think
necessarily was better than you know uh
yes nine or Voyager I think emissary was
a pretty good show yeah yes nine is
horrible dude oh my god it's only good
once you get going there for me I'm
still no good because the premiere sets
up these storylines if you go back
you're like oh that is that that is a
character are people knew what they were
working on isolating a premiere you
isolate it you have to getting you
excited yes the Voyager premiere was
also very good in that way too I think I
think it's fantastic I think it's a
wonderful first episode and by the way
of the Patrick Stewart's acting is
fantastic apparently that guy connect
who knew I mean seriously though I think
it's better than Star Trek but no it's
very good it's more nuanced than yes
jean-luc Picard M TNG no doubt all right
let's go offer an alert because that
concludes our top story this week all
right
all right uh who we're doing so many
things to go for this week let's go just
down the slate on what we have laid out
here in the Marvel Universe we have
MODOK coming to the small screen now
MODOK
one of the weirdest character villains
in the Marvel Universe is a giant head
that floats that floats we get a visual
on this and it's an acronym standing for
the mobile organism designed only for
killing there he is there yes he's a
giant being slash like brain looking
kind of thing that has a headband that
can shoot telekinetic kind of power it's
a head with hands yes the hands and feet
and he's on a jetpack how money floats
around he's kind of this like one of the
weird characters that really only should
exist in comics but has been a favorite
for comics fans and and video games and
the fighting games and now he will make
the small screen but the bigger
announcement is that this is Marvel TV
now under the umbrella of the MCU and
Hulu doing their new animated show so
this is on Hulu it's gonna be Marvel's
MODOK and there's some casting most
importantly the voice of MODOK is gonna
be Patton Oswalt now I'd correct cast I
think that the only the only person that
could have casted better than Patton
Oswalt would have been John Hodgman
correct with his long ago document a
bead for to be to do the voice of MODOK
but Patton Oswalt I think is just as
good and I'm very excited to hear his
take Why ask why is there Marvel on Hulu
well yeah that's why I thought is this
some sort of cast off like a Disney's
like I we don't want it well it's kind
of like a Ghost Rider was gonna be on
Hulu it's part of that ABC ABC has a
stake in Hulu and Disney owns ABC so
this is have shield there but the Disney
could have said we want it for d+ but
they'd said now it correct okay alright
and I bet you it'll show up on d+ yeah
yeah ventually I'm still gonna go tout
the virtues of The Witcher toss a coin
it's your Witcher ho value of plenty oh
and the Netflix says now said The
Witcher is probably
most one of the most viewed new shows in
the past year that the bigger story here
isn't that Netflix or that The Witcher
is popular because it is popular you
guys should watch it it's really good
but the way Netflix accounts for reviews
and the way they show their ratings has
changed and they've kind of been a
little more relaxed I'm not a such a big
fan of this it might be showing Netflix
is concern about services like Disney
Plus maybe Apple TV Plus definitely HBO
max coming out later this year being a
competitor in the eyes of shareholders
previously Netflix which never talks
about ratings and sometimes only very
rarely drops numbers when it's hugely in
their favor they evaluate whether a show
has been viewed by how many people watch
up to 70% of the show if it's a movie
you got a watch 70% of the movie in
terms of minutes or if it's show you
know watch 7 out of 10 episodes for them
to count it as a view that's a high bar
to meet but internally that makes a lot
of sense because if you have someone
watch 7 out of 10 episodes of which sure
guess what they've seen The Witcher
they're into the show and it can give
them a great barometer for the quality
of the show not just this random metric
of whether someone has you know flipped
it on and played the first couple
minutes now they're taking a step back
from that new metric to give themselves
a little portray themselves a little bit
better because now they're talking about
if you watch something for at least two
minutes they are gonna call that you've
indicated that your choice to watch that
show was intentional you've made an
intentional choice to watch something if
you have watched something for two
minutes okay so if you've watched the
first two minutes of the crown and
didn't turn it back on guess what you
chose to watch it and so they're saying
by this new metric 73 million people
have chosen to watch the crown 73
million people have watched at least 2
minutes at Super they chosen to watch it
Jeremy they've chosen to watch it okay
and 76 million households have chosen to
watch The Witcher in the first month of
release that's a big number okay it's 35
date and to be fair they've been upfront
that this new metric the way they're
evaluating the ratings so to speak of
the show they're doing it to kind of by
this measure has inflated their numbers
by 35% and they've said as such so take
them take it all with a grain of salt
yes take it with a grain of salt but I
do think this is spot-on that we need to
reinvent what these metrics are standard
and it's not possible to because they're
not gonna have a centralized auditing
system our polling system like you did
with the Nielsen ratings which
eventually has inboxes set up in
people's home but Nielsen was flawed
just like any other service because who
you know for many many reasons yeah
long story short watch The Witcher move
on to other exciting news big news at a
Lego Lego truck word that they will be
releasing an International Space Station
set on February 1st for a very I think
reasonable price of $70 yeah it's
interesting cuz it's a sizable set but
it is sizable in a way that's affordable
so typically the way you measure the
value of LEGO sets is if you look at
number of pieces and kind of you
evaluate it's may $0.10 per brick so if
a set has a thousand pieces then you
assume that standard laker price is a
hundred bucks and that's including what
you know obviously all the mark-up does
not cost Lego ten cents to manufacture a
single brick all's you got to look at if
you go deeper the size of the bricks
diversity of bricks colors and all that
stuff you know basically how well you
could re use those pieces to build
anything else if you're that type of
Lego builder this Lego ISS has eight
hundred and some-odd pieces and so the
fact that it's $70 pretty good yeah
pretty good and it doesn't come with a
minifig it doesn't does come with a tie
nice it's not minifig scale obviously
yeah but it does come with a tiny
shuttle that's cool yeah it's smaller
scale than the Saturn 5 rocket for those
that might have bought that one this is
awesome
Jeremy and I are going to
like gravity with this eye and by that
mean like active scenes from movie it'll
be awesome I said we should hang it from
the ceiling and you wanted I think their
legged like now well I think I think
want to figure out a way to hang it from
the ceiling maybe maybe clue the pieces
together
give it some structural rigidity yeah I
can't wait to see people build the my
own creation version of the seven eaves
version of the ISS using these parts the
expanded version or maybe two Valeri in
the city of thousand planets and kind of
use that as a template to expand and
build your city of a thousand planets
off of the ISS lots of options they are
excited for the set it's gonna be out
February first also uh you know going
back to Netflix other news that's
important for some of you out there who
don't live in the Canada US or Japan
Netflix has secured the rights to
distribute the 21 films from the studio
ghibli archives awesome great news for
those Netflix subscribers hey awesome
for everyone except us except for people
who live in Japan Canada or the u.s. now
we know VPNs are a thing and you could
absolutely use VPNs presumably to log in
and say you're in the UK or you know
wherever else Netflix serves but in the
US the rights are under HBO HBO max is
the service that will have the studio
ghibli film I would have thought Disney
would have it because they bring a lot
of them to the u.s. they do but it's a
separate deal streaming DVD releases all
different now what won't be on a show
max to make this a little more confusing
even HBO max is owned by a teensy Warner
Brothers is the Harry Potter films
what considering HBO max this is a City
area of Time Warner Media Warner meaning
Warner Brothers which produced the Harry
Potter exactly instead it's tied under a
distribution deal with NBC Universal
which is launching their own streaming
service oh thank goodness
peacock coming out later this year it's
gonna cost more than cable eventually
isn't it well peacock will have free ad
based and be Hulu like terms of the many
tiers of pay but yeah the ala carte
model I mean it's not that the ala carte
model
makes sense it's that the ala carte
model has given these media companies
the gumption and the motivation to
produce more content than ever so it's
not like if you go back ten years and
look at what you're paying for cable
yeah you might be paying close to if not
more than that now but you're not just
getting reruns of Seinfeld these days
you're getting yeah you're gonna rerun
Seinfeld and Friends if you're buying a
bee services but you're also getting
more live TV and TV produce than ever if
you want to so call it TV Disney Plus
launching a week literally in the UK and
other streaming news that's great for
those of you who want to start watching
the mandalorian oh sorry
yeah I know that what's funny is that
all the stories mentioning this all have
baby Yoda's like their title big reveals
thanks a lot all right well it was
already ruined but yeah that's funny yet
it's gonna be launching March 24th in
the UK a week earlier than originally
planned you know we are I don't know if
it's time for a Disney Plus you know
month in post-mortem it's been over a
month but it's really the archive that's
selling it right now I now understand
why they were charging undercutting
Netflix and HBO buy so much and doing
these two year three year package deals
this is because outside men Lorien and
some shows at launch they're not
releasing stuff at the pace and cadence
as Netflix not nearly oh god no it's
it's an archive it's it's you're
subscribing to really an archive until
the Marvel stuff comes out this year
look at Apple by comparison I mean
that's a bigger problem yeah no library
still outright apples in trouble
like let's just call it what it is I
don't know about that but I mean I've
known Plus T V Plus is in trouble yeah
it's a hobby whereas I think Disney pus
is gonna be fine I mean you have to like
think back to what it was like when
Amazon Prime first launched prime video
as a comparison to Disney Plus their
cadence of shows coming out was much
less and now you see them kind of hit
their stride and their show after show
after show leading you on Netflix is at
a higher cadence than that but you know
it takes time to build there they
made the investments early you know we
thought it was ridiculous five seven
years ago when the Netflix bosses says
we're gonna take these hundreds of
millions of dollars that we would have
given to stars and other licensee
licensed ORS to be a licensee of content
and we're gonna invest in original
programming and you're right it takes
years to spin that up you can't just
hire talent and which companies have
done to develop you need the production
companies place you need the
relationships in place and the content
the buffet of content is the evidence of
that do you know if the UK is getting
all of the mandalorian episodes dropped
at once I believe they are they are they
are they must there's no no reason not
to that would be a slap in the face
yeah yeah yeah speaking of Disney they
announced that the 20th Century Fox
brand
well it's dropping the name Fox it's
just gonna be called 20th century yeah
and isn't Searchlight - aren't they
taking a soft Searchlight yeah and I
mean to avoid confusion because they
don't own the Fox TV network yeah but
that's a what is what a strange thing
the whole relationship between Disney
and Fox and that acquisition you know
yes they got a lot of classic Fox things
like The Simpsons on Fox TV is still
gonna be Fox TV that they own but it's
it's such a weird relationship it's all
very strange but it's sort of a natural
thing to drop that name given the TV
don't work yeah I wanna go with HBO for
a little bit with a couple new shows on
HBO now that Watchmen and His Dark
Materials have concluded first of all
Watchmen there will be no season two as
far as HBO is concerned I haven't
watched it yet but you guys talk about
it like it's the best thing on TV in
years and it is the best things I'm
shocked here there won't be season two
after hearing you reviews I have to say
this great choice really awesome choice
this is the right choice I totally want
more this is one of the best series to
come out in the last decade it ends on a
perfect note and if you don't have a
story to tell don't do it yep don't do
it and even though you could say it ends
on a cliffhanger
sorts you know where you your appetite
for more that is exactly how the
original Watchmen was written as well
and it's how it was a complete
intentional table in Lofton this his
team of writers really envisioned this
to be a single-season show the stand on
its own which I think it absolutely does
and Lindelof has said he doesn't he
didn't he doesn't have motivation he
hasn't have an idea a German idea to
tell a season two he would have been
happy because obviously he doesn't own
the rights he would have happy to watch
a season two if someone else took the
reins and ran with it
and the fact that HBO was showing the
restraint on such a critically acclaimed
show I think it tells you there's no
good idea
well that that they still value the
quality over just the quantity and I
don't think a studio movie studio would
have that same restraint no Hugh bad
voice for but I think the door is open
years down the road if they come back
and have a good idea though I think HBO
would totally be in and I'm sure Damon
Lindelof would be from the line for
someone to come up with that guy idea
having work with that material and this
store this version of the story for so
long
HBO's to do shows the have you guys any
of you seen Avenue five nope I don't
watch it yet this is from the creator of
veep and if heap is concluded so it's a
space the science fiction show it's
about like a almost hitchhiker to the
guy hates hikers Guide to the galaxy
like in a comedy comedy yep it stars
house m.d. yeah Hugh Laurie in space
okay yeah as the captain I believe the
space Cruise is using his natural accent
um no American America Dex huh and I
haven't seen either so actually don't
know okay but that's out there also
Kirby enthusiasms back season ten one of
the best shows ever oh man so long
between this year that was like three
years
yes ins yeah yeah it's like the second
time it's come back after Larry David
said he's done done with it and it's
still good
into movie news this is deep in the
rumor mill but it's rumor that Tyco ytt
may be working on a Star Wars film at
least he's been approached and this is
following on his direction of the finale
which was so well received the
mandalorian and also being in the
already in the house of mouse with
director of Thor 3 Thor Thor for this
feels like Disney not taking that full
pause on a Star Wars well thinking that
they probably should you need that
runway it's not like the movies didn't
come out next year there were four is
coming out next year yeah so he's worth
he's gonna be out of commission in terms
of filmmaking you know if he was to work
on a Star Wars film it wouldn't be for
four years so really it's about does he
want to make that type of commitment I
think this is grabbing at a trend
instead of focusing on a story I think
it's getting talented people locked in
to develop hopefully ideas that they can
review with and not just then discard
because of creative differences that's
it
yeah I mean that's what comes to mind
when I see this headline is that the
fear that three years from now or two
years from now they sort of Lucasfilm
you have differences that but he's the
one I mean this is we talk about the
Doctor Strange in the amount of madmen
on the multiverse of madness director
scott derrickson leaving the hourlies
director's seat of the film because of
creative differences and Marvel that it
worries me because on one hand tyka they
get let tyka make Thor Ragnarok which is
such a departure from Thor 1 & 2 being a
straight-up comedy and then they another
hand they won't let presumably we don't
know if the story is scott derrickson
make a horror film and they're playing
it safe their Star Wars the franchise
where I cannot imagine them not wanting
to play it safe on the big screen
because the stakes are you know you need
to make two billion and not 1 billion
really I mean I that's presumably why
they you know they didn't have the
directors of solo on
Lord yeah but who knows that's a lot of
inside baseball we don't know about
I would I from one would love to see
Tiger ytt write and direct a Star Wars
film doesn't need to be part of that any
saga standalone Star Wars film I don't
know like like I said watching mandolin
I think you would we don't want to go
into Star Wars like deep right but I
will say that the comedy in the last
episode of Mandalorian struck a chord
with me like that's something that could
be done exactly and if taiko white titi
could do that yes could bring comedy to
Star Wars way that's just like let's
just go in on this mm-hmm I think it
could work but I don't think that that's
playing it safe I think that that is a
departure that's what I'm saying and I'm
but the fear is that again that may be
what they will allow on TV in the
Mandalorian and or the comics or the
cartoons you know the animated stuff is
not what they would allow on the big
screen because the stakes are higher
yeah yeah because it's not just about
viewers watching one episode of a show
that they ever bought into and pay the
school ship in subscription fee for but
you need to get people to pay 8 10 bucks
20 bucks for IMAX to watch and make a
billion dollar billion plus you know the
fact that the rise of Skywalker cross a
billion dollars and people were not
trumpeting that is success it says a lot
says that the expectations are way too
high they're not they're not I mean it's
a golfclap of a you made it you inched
over a billion dollars that's you yes
that's so sad the film today and will
could make a billion dollars worldwide
and and not be seen as a it now to be
objectively it is a success that's money
in the bank right yeah but I know from a
shareholder and probably from
expectation standpoint what was the
husband from what was it 200 million
like that it was probably closer to half
a billion you think you include
marketing 100% cheese yeah yeah I mean
they look at endgame three billion
dollars I think they wanted that
difference for the billion to three
billion two billion dollars
where we're going next
oh hey some speaking Star Wars Oscar
Isaac has found his next project we're
wondering where one of these Star Wars
actor is gonna do now that the Rises now
with the Skywalker saga is over I can't
wait I mean I I really I love the new
cast so much I can't wait to see what
john boyega's gonna do what did uh what
uh Daisy Ridley's gonna do what Kelley
retreads gonna do and Oscar Isaac who's
already had a lot of success outside of
Star Wars what he's gonna do and the
thing he's doing next it's another it's
a comic book adaptation this is this is
funny the movies called the great
machine and it's based off of a comic
book by Brian Kavon called ex machina do
you mean isn't that the title of a movie
that Oscar Isaac and in in Exum ex
machina is the title of a movie
completely unrelated that Oscar Isaac
also started it's gotta be the same can
see you key you don't write the title ex
machina or dos ex machina without the
same basic conceit well the conceit of
the comic book is completely different
than that ex not gonna film it's not
it's just a phrase the conceit of the
comic book-y I think obviously they have
to call it the great machine because
it's not the ex mama don't confuse it
with ex machina which a lot of people
love and I think it's a great film but
it's I mean it's a mayor of New York who
is the world's only superhero who can
communicate with machines and one of the
twists is that he was able to stop one
of the planes from hitting a building in
9/11 Oh what is this in comics this is
written it like in lived 10 years ago
and so there's one tower left he has
this like jetpack he stopped one of the
planes and he ran for mayor and through
some fluke he got basically 100 percent
of the vote and it's it's he's a
politician that's also used to be a
superhero
it goes back and forth between his time
as a superhero and it's time it's
politician I don't know how that's gonna
adapt it it's actually a really great
comic book I'm not doing great service
by describing it this way some
it's twists and turns how was the comic
book received very well yeah it's very
very well sprite cave on who did why the
last man
he's known for writing these long epic
stories that are too sensational despite
you know the this applauding here but
I'm excited to see Oscar Isaac getting
this role
Jeremy you always ask when is gonna be
the moment when comics go too far reach
that moment for me yeah kind of feel
that way although I will say this
reminds me of a comedians in cars
getting coffee episode where Matthew
Broderick gets taken out in a
Lamborghini and he makes the point about
the producers that when the producers
was made it was only 20 years after the
Holocaust and that they're making a lot
of fun out of Hitler really really
recent you know after the after the
tragedy and that would be like making a
comedy now about 9/11 it's not a comedy
though there's supposed to be a drama
maybe it's I hope it's gonna be like
West Wing with superheroes because it's
about the politics next door even worse
it's I hope it's gonna be good okay back
to Star Wars to pursue a life in pop
culture rise and resistance is open to
Disneyland yes I thought you're gonna go
Jeremy I'm gonna go have you seen the
crowd I thought you were here to go for
opening day yeah I'm so glad I did you
saw that you did people waiting in line
the night before there is like some type
of reservation system yeah when that
open people in line waiting to get into
a park you know 3 a.m. you can you
didn't even log in it's on your app you
don't think go too fast pass on your app
and you get in line into a queue yeah
and you know you have to be within the
park boundaries to do it I don't know uh
I'm gonna wait I'm gonna I'm waiting but
hopefully the you normally midweek in
January is pretty light and so I'm
hoping that that'll light enough maybe
I'll take a trip down later there's no
such thing as light at Disney anymore
yeah no no but but compared to the
weekends it's a relative thing I'm
really curious what the lines will be
like on the East Coast at Disney World
where rise of resistance has been open
for a little bit already not only good
effects that
you don't think you don't think it
effect is Neal and I don't think that
the opening and Disneyland will affect
the Disneyworld mom I'm saying like what
that what the disparity of minds are
yeah right
because when galaxy's edge opened the
there were no big lines because everyone
stayed away I wasn't planning to go to
this until I watched the last episode of
Imagineering documentary the managing
story on Disney Plus and it got me
really excited about it it's a by all
accounts you know arguably the best ride
at Disney like this is a big deal if you
if you're into rights and the Disney
Imagineering you know what they do and
it's an 18 minute ride you're giving
away too much already
well no not this everyone knows this I
don't yeah I think it would be a nice
surprise from Billy Coen even cooler
right what but I mean I yeah it's in
that I just know that from the
documentary if you'd really don't want
to know anything sure go for it but it's
a it's a very long ride that
incorporates part of the experience into
the line itself in a new way which I
like you know it's a good way to keep
the audience entertained but the ride
itself supposed to be quite good and I
can't wait I wonder if they meant to
have this open with galaxy's edge and
just couldn't get it done in any case
this is this was always intended to be
the main attraction the galaxy touch the
Millennium Falcon was supposed to be
this for the second ride Wow
so this is it I can't wait I want to get
down there I will hopefully come back in
three weeks with the report from Walt
Disney World because that's where I'm
going in in two weeks Super Bowl week
you know I'm gonna test that myth that
Super Bowl day is the worst day best day
to go to Disneyland it's not Disney
World it's in SeaWorld
yeah you are in Florida I will be like
300 miles away for more Super Bowls
happening your home teams in it that's
right it's a crazy man go Niners
and our last story we've been big fans
of derecho gallio's show in and of
itself Adam talked so much about it and
amongst the show concluded a wrap-up
it's run on Broadway they were filming a
documentary during its run and that
documentary will make its debut at South
by Southwest this year I'm so excited
any opportunity to relive any moment
that show and when they just kind of
jump face you should watch Jeremy in and
of itself like the highest
recommendation I mean it's always a
little bit of a trick translating what
you see on stage just something in
person and from what we gather it's
gonna be completely different wait wait
this is a documentary about the show
yeah I don't think it's gonna be the
show it can't be the show I think it's
about the making of the show maybe
they'll intercut with bits from the show
I'm it's 90 minutes it's documentary as
you enter the show you take a nametag or
a tag that has an adjective that
describes yourself it's an identity play
yeah you have to grab a card that says I
am yeah there's a million different you
can't do that at home I don't think it's
gonna be the show yeah sure
his name is crusher yeah I think well
identity playwright I think it's about
the impact the show had about his
journey writing the show and a Frank I
was directing it and some of the
audience reactions to it I think it's me
about that the show's over right it's
done it's a I don't think he can I don't
think it's gonna be a straight
documentary I think there's it's gonna
be a little weird like it's a magic
trick
Derek is like a strange guy Frank Oz is
not gonna direct something kind of down
the middle at this stage he directed
this he directed the directed the magic
show really yeah he would sit in the
back and watch i sat next to forever
Frank Oz set behind me what I saw that's
yeah
well man I mean you the wait when you
talked about it having come back from
New York and see that it's very envious
so I will I will certainly watch that so
I understand the show better I have
there some you know few things in my
life that I regret one of which is
missing Hamilton when he was in New York
with the opportunity to see it like
literally we were looking at shows to
buy you could have been cool and it
could have been so cool now you're so
cool like Daniken said we should go see
this thing all Hamilton I read a review
York Times like uh how about see
something else or we know the tickets
are so expensive whatever reason we
missed the opportunity so Bob one of
those regrets and I made up for peace
with God we flew to New York to watch
this show you flew there to see this
well we flew for like something like a
the anniversary thing and we saw it and
well when the documentary comes out
we'll talk more about
perhaps I went by myself and I felt
super awkward and then loved every
minute of it was that your descriptor
you were I am alone a loner we will have
the spoiler of this show I want at some
point well I'd have a spoiler field
discussion do you know if it's coming we
do is still untitled on this yes but why
don't we describe the actual no you
didn't hack said you wanted to because
it was still alive yeah I wanna spoil is
this coming to theaters or it must be I
think it's gonna go it be itself by with
the it's a station of someone picking it
up it might be a Netflix you might be
Amazon you know it's one of the this is
one of those things that I'd be happy to
watch 30% of it to kill then to banette
two minutes two minutes you've selected
to watch it all right before we move on
to our next segment
we got a long show so far already I'll
let you know that this episode of the
Senate s is made possible with support
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all right let's get through tech news
relatively quickly but it's not as
important its pop culture well there's a
lot more power I see a lot more Picard
this began there's a lot of VR so I
wanna make sure we have time to get to
that too first of all on the Apple side
there is potentially a low-cost iPhone
coming this was long rumored and
Bloomberg's mark Kerman has reported
that it's entering a mass production in
February the prevailing theory is that
it will look similar to the iPhone 8 so
not the iPhone 10 not edge to edge
screen and that it will incorporate a
touch ID as opposed to face ID so 4.7
inch screen and it will also use the
same processor as the iPhone 11 so
latest speed latest processor but a
worse display and also no face ID no
edge edge screen and the station of the
cameras that actually doesn't sound too
bad like isn't the iPhone 8 is what
probably about 500 bucks or something
like that right now it's I believe 450
so are we thinking about something in
that range of price maybe $50 less 399
it would be might be a compelling point
for the masala dad so I have no doubt
that a price point of 399 for iPhone is
gonna be hugely attractive and it will
sell a ton of units also apples you know
the the long-play theory is that they
raise the minimum product that the price
of smartphones to $1000 the new norm and
got other people one they were able to
sell phones at a thousand bucks plus
like the iPhone 11 pro max is what like
12 1212 50 or something just start it's
absurd amount if you think about how
much the smartphones were costing what
subsidies 10 years ago now but people
are paying it we're paying it there's
the whole loan program and the whole you
know multiply the upgrade program you
know
figuring out a way to make more money
making phones that carts cost marginally
more than the phones are making for them
in years past at the same time got the
market to raise to follow suit got
Samsung to start selling $2,000 phones
right and at the same time one of the
theories is that while Samsung has sold
a bunch of phones at $1,000 and famously
not being able to sell like with galaxy
fold premium phones at over $1,000
Apple has then snuck in and you know
renamed the 10r into b11 and sold the 11
for a reasonable relatively reasonable
price of 800 bucks and now coming in
potentially selling in with a low cost
phone of maybe $400 it's interesting
that normally Apple has no problem
having samsung follow suit and copy them
yeah and you're spinning that as a
positive this time around that they
conned Samsung to raise their prices to
a point where only has a problem with
that either
what the field Samsung maybe did sell as
many as they whatever maybe they could
have that's implicit their prices 800
they might have done better in the
market in terms of market share but they
fall suit and so one of the the you know
they could have injured their way into
owning not only the high end but also
the mid range at $400 now you got to
make a comparison to the iPhone se right
which was the iPhone 5 with a faster
processor and a daily cost was a big
appeal to the se buts that different
than the 5c yes the 5c that was plastic
the 5s and that was the low cost phone
right right this feels more like if if
they are gonna put a low cost phone with
iPhone 89 this feels more like a 5c then
it feels like the 5s see so that's using
and if I can't understand this like this
is what Jobs came in and like wiped out
when he came back to half and simplify
the skiers yeah my argument is or my
question I guess is is Apple discounting
the popularity of small form-factor
and missing an opportunity to sell a ton
of these
new phones by going with an iPhone 8
chassis because iPhone a chassis and I'm
sure they've done the market research
and I'm sure people love big screens and
people like oh okay for three dollars
450 for an iPhone 8 size phone with a
fast processor a good camera sign me up
I'm in for that but I know there's got
to be a segment of users who are looking
at the growing size of phones
and once something like the 5s see in
the SE once something like you know
nothing fast processor I don't need a
giant phone so instead of 4.7 inch like
where are you time 4 and a half inch one
and a half but also the aspect ratio
being a little taller a candy bar phone
I don't think so I don't feel like I'm I
mean I know who those users are that
doesn't mean they don't exist but I
think we're at the place where like that
for net and that four and three-quarter
sizes and I'm is dead
you think it's dead I mean I I think
it's I think it's unfortunate I think if
I gave you a iPhone 5 which was the
thinnest phone they've married and the
smallest lightest phone they've made and
as a iPhone user now I'm like I've
accepted the fact that the phone is this
big right the 11pro is that big 11 is
that big I love it even bigger but I'm
holding a five I missed that how light
that phone was I miss how small that
phone was and maybe Apple will go back
to that sometime in the future and maybe
they'll charge more for it maybe that's
not a maybe that's the MacBook Air
equivalent or the MacBook you know when
they read into the MacBook it may in
charge a premium for thin and light
anyway that's all in the rumor rumor
mill Apple also made a lot of news this
week in terms of its privacy policy and
there's a story out of Reuters that said
that Apple may be in it and if you even
follow us news you know that Apple is
kind of in a at odds with the Justice
Department right now over the unlocking
unwillingness to unlock a suspects phone
but the report from Reuters is that
Apple dropped plans to encrypt backups
on iCloud after the FBI complained or
maybe to appease perhaps the FBI what do
you think Apple's internal designs are
for cooperating with the government
because they can't do it publicly
I say it's a Chinese Chinese got rid
they'll do it the Apple can't come out
and say okay FBI we will unlock that
phone they won't they'll never do
they'll never and and why are our tools
that the FBI could use yes I lock the
photos what I'm saying maybe there's
there's another way you know there's
like back channels to teams of people
who's the entire company is hacking
iPhones they could feed them a method or
I don't think they do lady nor not block
an exploit that they've discovered you
know soon enough
in order to block them from beyond the
unlock a store that's a real slippery
slope and that's bad policy regardless
well hey what do you think they are
selling is private privacy and we have
encrypted backups if you backup your
phone locally on a computer so you think
iTune do you think Apple's genuine Vince
in that they will never cooperate with
unlocking any kind of phone and they
will do everything they can to lock all
this whole I think they've done so far
their stance and their big marketing
message is that that's different than an
internal stance and if we want to be
realistic about it I'm inclined to
believe that they will give in
especially they have shown they will
cave you know to pressure which is
disappointing if that's what their
message has been I so I wonder if this
is just them capitulating to public
perception or the risk of public
perception if they are seen as not
eating law enforcement in some way like
actually stopping crimes
do you think that's the message that
will come out from the FBI in law
enforcement
like we need this to stop crimes from
happening
yeah and Apple doesn't want to be in
like a PR war around that that's been
the message from the president already
yeah I mean I think oh and like the
president today announced that he wants
to work
Apple on encryption so that there's like
a public stance going back and forth
here I don't think they lose in the
court of public opinion unless
information is leaked unless there is
some type of data leak which there
hasn't been so far and I don't think
unfortunately I don't think the vast
majority people even those who follow
the Apple in news care that their data
is not encrypted server side a
reasonable solution might be to offer
that and let it be opt-in and maybe not
by default that's terrible but Google
does it Google does encrypted both ways
your your data your your Google backup
because it's so much more than what's on
your phone it's the whole cool ego it's
where you live yeah yeah all that your
location yes sir all like that's
encrypted on their side and your side
with keys that you generate locally but
on iCloud it is not secure I mean email
isn't secure either you know it's to be
honest yeah right this feels very
wishy-washy from Apple like go one way
or the other it feels like this is just
a loophole to you know straddle the line
I think this is gonna be settled in
courts more than is gonna be settled by
local policy because I'm sure we're
gonna get into court cases where where
law enforcement is gonna be able to
compel your face to unlock your phone
hmm thinking about that that's really
gets real messed up I have my my kids
already like hold the phone up to my
face and before I can tell what they're
doing it's unlocked it all it takes you
were to get to some of the valve news in
VR of course with half life Alex but a
little bit of maybe news is that at CES
Android police had a chat with a
director of project management for
Chrome OS on the Google side and one bit
of news that was released is that they
are looking into bringing the steam to
Chromebooks the steam client this is
craziness
they can't what like steam runs in the
cloud or is like a local local on the on
the Linux kernel okay so the question is
what would you able to what would you
play well
what everyone's team whatever the
Chromebook could run and Chromebooks are
pup are powerful there are some books
that you can get on the high end that
are powerful certainly games that that
don't require powerful PC let's team as
well most people that have Chromebooks
do not have powerful Chromebooks they
have the kind of low-end kind of use for
school kind of but there are plenty of
you know
2d games that you could potentially get
it's just another storefront it's a it's
a big deal because this is laying them
perhaps it's the install native App
Store for games because go maybe it's
not as viable on the on the chrome store
right now
chrome a store all this games can I just
can't I just wonder if steam will ever
launched a stadia type service or you
can just play every game on Steam strand
that's a huge engineering undertaking
and you know if you go by and I think
companies like Microsoft and PlayStation
have the backend and the helper support
to perhaps launch that google has showed
it struggled already with stadia you
know maybe over-promising the the
feature set and very high expectations
given how much resources they put into
it but in sturms of stadia news there is
news and stadia they said that they are
going to have a hundred and twenty games
coming in 2020 that's tracking right now
and that also probably includes the
backlog that catalogs but their
partnership with you be soft and there
you play plus doom Eternals come into it
yeah yeah are you excited for doom
eternal I wasn't until I watched this
recent noclip podcast interview with
dude from it'd he's an excellent
interview and they post-mortem the first
doom which I didn't dig a whole lot and
I related to the post-mortem they like
kind of admitted what I found at fault
with it and which is what you could play
it wrong you could play you could play
it with the double-barrel shotgun just
run up to people and blow them up and
you didn't have to do a lot of you know
strafing behind and you know weapons
switching and you know jumping around
and acrobatics and they apparently you
know that they strive to fix that and
the game now forces you into the fun
zone and
it sounds like a game that I will enjoy
more hmm you if I have time for it yeah
it's like that yeah you know you want it
I want the time for yeah I'm actually
really glad about our next story because
cyberpunks been delayed and I know it
sucks for building long waiting for it
but it's been pushed till the fall but
better to get it right what who was it's
Miyamoto that said you know late game is
potentially good every game released too
early is always bad that's that's
absolutely right yes so push till to
September 17th cyberpunk 2077 still
crossing fingers for some type of VR
support eventually that's a game that's
that's the next game I'm not they've
never they've never said that crossing
yeah one could dream yeah one can dream
if Microsoft can have its opinions
changed and incorporate VR it's a flight
simulator you know maybe maybe CD
Projekt people have wanted GTA 5 since
that came out in VR and there's been
hacked yes you can you can do it with a
mod but yeah it's not native no that
would be that's if it's gonna happen to
some game like that you'd think that
would be it yeah yeah I will say though
Lofa if you want that kind of Blade
Runner vibe
low fine looks quite good and you can
buy it you can get by early access right
now if they're also the developer it's
gonna promises to he has a little arcade
with playable arcade games in it it's
gonna put Star Wars in it oh are you
serious wow that's cool yeah yeah not
not playable just League happen it can
that be there it's cool yeah when you
provide them the model or they're like
Mike and Sean provided assets Wow nice
Easter Egg I got to play that now all
right that does it for technology news
before we move on to our next section I
won't let you know that this episode is
also made possible by Capital One
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now it's time for a moment of science
all right there's a ton of VR news so
I'm gonna keep this brief but first
breaking Piccard news whoa
so Patrick Stewart went on the view
today and he was talking about the
season and he have fishel II invited one
of the view co-hosts to be on season 2
oh I can guess who that is yeah that's
one of my wife's favorite characters
what do we think about guidin coming
back I'm Pro gyno and we're in the Nexus
Allen we're in the Nexus folks yeah she
got emotional and got up and hugged him
oh my goodness like this was really did
you get like to get this and said it
wasn't planned hey even if it's
contrived I bought in there all right
so just a couple stories this week we
first have to talk about what's
happening in Wuhan in in China this is a
city of about ten million people it's
essentially on lockdown right now public
transportation is shut down through
Thursday at 10:00 a.m.
flights are canceled in and out of this
city because they detected about a month
ago maybe like even eight weeks a
transmission from a animal market that
had fish and other livestock a virus
that went from animals to humans
it's a corona virus which is this broad
class of viruses that includes stuff
like SARS and MERS that tend to when
they cross over to humans cause
respiratory ailments now in the case of
the corona virus and Wuhan they've
demonstrated that it is being
transmitted human to human typically
through coughs and sneezes and that's
why they've shut down all the
transportation around Wuhan to try to
stem the spread of the disease there's
already been a confirmed case that has
landed in the u.s. so that all right
yeah in Seattle they set up screening at
airports where they're taking people's
temperatures
there'll be infrared cams that are
she's looking for people that have
fevers walking through the reason
they're taking this so seriously is
because of what happened with SARS years
ago where we had I think there was just
short of a thousand deaths from SARS in
about eight thousand cases if you
remember that a while ago that scientist
Jo Durie C was on still entitled talking
about all sorts of viruses and stuff
scare us episode ever Jo is largely
credited with one of the scientists that
first characterized stars and one of the
reasons SARS was a bigger deal is we had
a hard time tracking that virus down we
just tracking the infection the vector
of the entire spread in this case the
corona virus has already been identified
that's causing this we don't know how it
went from the animals to humans at this
point so they still have to understand
that but it's essentially already been
isolated so while they're nervous about
it we're like leaps and bounds ahead of
where we were with SARS but because of
SARS are taking these huge precautions
about its spread made of seen in the
news lots of stories about the spike in
the number of cases at this point we
aren't sure if that's actually because
there's been more cases or just more
characterization of the cases like more
just diagnosis but at this point we're
in the low few hundreds of cases being
identified at this point about 15 to 20
percent have serious respiratory
ailments where they'll have to go
essentially on a ventilator and a number
of patients have already died but at
this point I think we're actually in
like weirdly I'm very optimistic about
where we are around this like the
Chinese government has been apparently
pretty transparent about what's
happening here there's been a lot of
coordination across country lines to
contain this and a lot of shared
information so far in terms of the
science so we can actually stem the tide
it's a really serious issue but not one
that I think anyone should be panicked
about and be wearing masks everywhere
you go
but it seems like we are starting to get
a handle on it and probably in the
coming weeks we'll we'll learn more but
this is essentially imagine this world
that we're living in that coronavirus in
1918 because that's what killed there's
a flu virus that spread in 1918 that
killed off a million-plus people and
essentially because we couldn't track
the vectors we didn't understand where
it was coming from
we couldn't quarantine people's
transmission we had just million like
near a million people died from that
entire spread so you can see how much
progress we've made in sort of
containing this situation still really
such a serious situation to the point
where they shut down transportation
about ten plus million person city
that's what I mean logistics about is
crazy because it all it takes is a few
people to get through and the fact that
that works is a testament to just like
how will organize like you said we are
today yeah on a different note let's
talk about rockets going exploding oh
boy in a good way
SpaceX is a weak expected way launched a
a test where they blew up some of their
own Falcon 9 rocket as part of safety
testing for their new Dragon capsule and
what they demonstrated in this series of
tests is the Dragon capsule ability to
be to eject and like demonstrate it's
like ability to parachute off and then
detonate the Rockets remotely before it
reaches orbit super successful great
visuals a huge success moment and sets
up another success on the way for SpaceX
to actually put the Dragon capsule into
place this is a pretty key safety bar
for them to hit for this to go forward
so I was pretty excited about that slow
D and last thing NASA is looking for
names okay for their next Mars rover and
it's not a boaty mcboatface situation
but it's close they have set up an
online poll where kids in in grade
school have
up with have submitted a list of nine
names for the rover okay so alright tell
me which one you like the best
okay are we gonna list them I'm gonna
list them now this list order
I think bias is a little bit but we're
gonna read them as they're displayed
it's fortitude ingenuity tenacity
perseverance promise endurance vision
clarity and courage so just note when
you refresh the page they'll change the
order oh nice
at least mine was in a different order
than you mm-hmm I also say it looks like
each name came from a different grade
set yeah so there's like k23 and then
you know high school and middle school
okay kind of levels if you have a
favorite out of the nine yes
which one vision vision no for a rover
yeah
because I feel like that's what it gives
us and I realize the others are more
heartfelt but but the vision seems more
literal and I like that I'm on the
either perseverance or fortitude because
I think the Mars landscape is very very
challenging place to be and so I like
the the Mark Watney style work the
problem situation I look at fortitude up
my imagine if this was open to the
public you know the the Mars rover
fortnight might have been was chosen
I like ingenuity oh look it we all chose
very different things yeah when I look
last night there had only been about
5,000 votes in this and NASA said
they're gonna take the name that you
vote on under consideration so no
promises no promises that's boaty
mcboatface for you but you should all go
vote and mean do I have to sign in don't
know oh I voted you know it's a sign in
okay done great thanks NASA
and is it for a moment of science the VR
minute virtual reality this week all
right
hey let's let's not talk about half-life
Alex's yet still parsing through so much
of the comments in the AMA let's talk
about Pavlov well sure it's not
technically news is it but it's part of
the discussion we have been playing a
lot of Pavlov on quests that is the news
Pavlov Shack is out
well yeah cuz it fell on to it was
always intended to be on side quest and
it finally showed up almost a month ago
maybe three weeks ago and and I'd played
it with you on PC and I enjoyed it but
I'd always I kind of thought the quest
version wouldn't be as good so like I
was late to that party I never seeked it
out and I didn't even stall it when it
showed up on side quest right away but
my son loves counter-strike I'm so I
said to hey I might have a game for you
try this and he fell in love with this
game like this is all he wants to play
now so hence I'm playing it a lot
inviting you to play it a lot and it's
not funny your son is 12 years old it's
well 13 in a couple weeks you and it
wasn't beat saber
oh no he's like you know he's like super
good at beat saber right but yeah in
fact he'd probably still be playing beam
saber had I not given him Pavlov
but Pavlov and he's a Minecraft and
four-night player previously but in
terms of great but now with this is the
one thing he wants to play yeah yeah
he's crazy that's crazy no I completing
the same boat where I love paying Pavlov
on the index I love the image quality
the fast refresh rate and I was
suspicious about the playability on
quest but I'm really enjoying on quest
as well the performance is really good
yeah I mean I when he played it he was
like why isn't this in the store this is
really good now some of the graphics on
it one of the maps in particular is
pretty rough and there's lacking some
features you can't form parties sure
have to hit join at the same time you
know start a boys chat and just join you
also can't group I feel like early
access can't group mute you can't turn
your mic off in the game these are all
things that they have you got modes like
TTT zombies you got search-and-destroy
I've got the gun game stuff all the
weapons are there all the reload
mechanics work real mechanics work the
sniper stuff they're using just the
hollow scope as opposed to outsite and
ESPO sexual scope that might be a
performance issue as well make sure
which makes it easier to snipe on the
quest but is that the real mechanic is
that the big thing right it's the how
dexterous your your hands need to be
yeah to use these these firearms in this
you know in the games and when you got
full servers of 5v5 like this feels like
counter-strike more so than even Pavlov
on desktop VR he was like I mean not in
terms of the the the search destroys the
same game mode but in terms of where it
is in the VR world like whatever
represents for VR is what counter-strike
represented for PC gaming back in 1999
that's what Pavlov feels like now the
excitement over it the kind of mod
aspect of it that's not from established
publisher it's not an official story a
side load this the rough graphics of it
the ongoing development this is also
reminiscent to the counter-strike
community which was one of the things
that drove PC gaming people buying
graphics cards people getting faster
internet connections the whole
communities built around that in not
that early arms in 99 2000 that's what
Pavlov feels like now with the benefits
of all the piggyback and all the
mechanics that have been developed since
that time yeah I would I've never played
Counter Strike because I've always been
bad at it because before I should say
because the community has always been so
good at it and it is the main mode of
Counter Strike is perma def until the
end of that round and I don't know maybe
it's that Pavlov the community is still
so new that eyes don't suck so much and
I can compete that I'm enjoying it a lot
more is there's not cross play yet with
the PC users is that a real big problem
because your frak
during the community well it would be
better if it works cross-play but it's
there's plenty of players cuz it is free
there's always players online there's
always people playing and if not it
drops bots in who aren't half-bad
although it's far better with people but
like you said all the modes are in there
and we're having a really good time like
it and I want I wish that I was better
than formed about this at one point it
was not coming to the store and as far
as I know that's still the case and it's
going to be on sidequest
and that might be the end of it but I
think onward is coming to the store and
maybe I'm curious if anybody can let us
know has Pavlov been submitted subnet
well-accepted hmm yeah chewed through
the end is eventually coming properly to
oculus quest because that would only
improve the user base and I think that'd
be a really good thing
yeah that's clearly finished I'd be I'm
curious why they wouldn't accept it I
think it's playable I don't know would
you'd say finish
no absolutely things that all those
things I mentioned still have to be
added yeah but stick bra gameplay like
you can tell if if I were an oculus I
would be like yeah just fix these things
and you're in yeah it seems good yeah
I'm not sure exactly what the short
requirements are but it's super easy to
sideload it there's a whole naming thing
where you got a use side quest to change
your name if your character and loud for
microphone input and but it works it's
super playable super fun I would say you
know we're beat Sabre is the mainstream
killer app potentially for for for quest
yeah and VR this is that a little more
of the hardcore it's a general killer
yeah and if I could make one request to
the developers if you're out there I
have a 13 year old playing the game I
would love if you put in the menus of
the game itself mic muting and voice
chat muting that'd be awesome because
right now he has to do it manually for
everybody like I'm sure we all agree
voice chat isn't always pg-13 that's
right yeah it almost never also on side
quests there's update to tea for god i
wish i could tell you that you didn't
play it no but it's a massive update and
this is a beloved game this is one of
those games that like does something no
one else has done before which is
creates ease non-euclidean
worlds where you turn a corner and you
walk in a circle and it's a whole
different space it has to be
single-player it is using yeah exactly
redirected walking but like you said not
including the worlds it's breaking the
rules of physics and space yes in a way
that you can only do in VR and it's
customized for your play space which is
a very rare thing in VR procedurally
generated environment and it what
they've added is just a lot more
complexity and an interest see to what
you can do in the world and interact
with you like the menus and it's
supposed to be very good I'm sorry I
don't have more of a review for it but I
saw it was on SciQuest I can't wait to
play it so one of the updates in there
changelog is that they are actively
working on hand tracking support as well
yeah controller free hand tracking
support and which a lot of developers
are doing right now with a quest we've
seen a lot of great videos put out of
people manipulating hand tracking for
physics space interactions but also you
I you know mapping things in the real
world
also we've just reached the tip of the
iceberg for the potential of hand
tracking on a mass user device like the
quest and you can install some very
basic demos inside quest and you're
curious about what a hand tracking can
do oculus has not yet released anything
official on the quest or using hand
tracking they didn't expect developers
to have anything ready until later well
until this year so also sorry
SciQuest there's updates I quest I'm
looking for it yeah and I don't know
yeah they had a big announcement this
morning it seems like there's going
they're going to start having paid games
inside quest which is interesting
because it is really the alternative to
the official quest store and they've
never charged for anything they there
have been games for sale but they've
been through each dot IO and they just
simply link to that store it seems like
they will be having a I button in there
which we know which is which is fine
which is great as long as oculus is
still cool with this and they don't
start banding side quest or you know
side loading which knock on wood they'll
never do cabal the updates want to
mention budget cuts to which was
released late last year has now been
updated with modifiers so you can kind
of play the game as you want and also
most importantly
free locomotion which was one of my
biggest requests for this and this might
get me to actually get through the game
because I I mean it's an option I don't
know it's the game probably isn't
designed with that for all the
challenges of the puzzles but I'd like
the fact that it's it's there lets me
get into those precise positions where I
want to peek around the corner yeah and
then use the total court mechanic after
that its I feel less restricted me do
budget cuts to I felt and budget cuts
one you know constrained without people
walk around the game for sale inside
Quest is to the top to the talked was
famously denied my ocular stoop all
right admitted into the quest store
however they did say they would welcome
their sequel and so they're friendly but
they had they had ported to the top to
quest and it wasn't accepted well now
you'll be able to not only play but you
can actually support the developers by
buying it inside quest this is fantastic
I hope to see the same from climie and
knock on wood the same from jet from a
jet island
I love jet island that is we can give
free and wild locomotion the best is the
best locomotive I'll well okay
echo VR is the best but in terms of like
moving around on the planet I'd love
Jedi yeah uh you know we've been
wondering when major Animation Studios
would start experimenting in VR for
something to be seen publicly I know
Pixar's announced and Disney's now they
have some projects going on but one of
them is frozen - we'll have a VR short
that will be unveiled at Sundance this
this month what is a VR short these days
is it Henry is that I think it's more
with like your Angelica I think your
Angelica so far as my pinnacle of VR
store telling the VR short at 360 right
what why is it why is it
well is it through is that all that it
is it's a story that happens all around
very true because Henry was converted to
just 360 video and you could enjoy the
story the same way you never really did
interaction no Henry had some
programmable aspects program aspects
were hadn't keep his eyes on you as you
move your head around I contact stuff
somebody that you need VR or two and
with eye tracking even better but you're
right it's mostly three
kind of 360 video will you embody one of
the characters like will you be Olaf and
you're walking around interacting with
people I don't I don't know um you guys
aren't gonna get it cuz you haven't seen
frozen - nope you won't get it
no only only frozen one he dreams of
summer that's right what does this
snowman do in summer yeah he doesn't
recap a frozen one in frozen - that's
one of the funniest parts of the whole
movie just letting you know you still be
still a hit Josh GAD hmm yeah yeah I
wish we were at Sundance to see it I
hope there will be opportunities for
other people to see it I think it's a
it's a it's a caustic like why invest
money in these projects you're not gonna
let people see it well I just don't get
it I mean I don't I don't know what this
is I'm glad they're experimenting with
VR
I just don't think of VR as being a
passive experience I don't that's why I
don't want to necessarily see movies
maybe created a VR VR I mean there's the
argument who made that like you could
watch you could be in a theater watching
a performance and that would be more
like real life but I don't know if I
want to go through this struggle and
discomfort of wearing a headset in order
to experience a passive experience like
that but that's a short-term problem the
friction of yeah headsets is something
that you presume and as a current
problem it is it is but they still got
to work on the content maybe that's not
the problems the thing I mentioned
experiments in inquest and hand tracking
Greg Madison on Twitter posted a video
sharing his experiments I believe it's
his experiments using unity and the
quest and mapping his own real space
real living room in a quest environment
including a tabletop surface that could
be used as a alternate reality interface
yeah and school ID grabs the map and
moves it around this is really really
cool I mean it seems it's interesting
that he's using VR for this because this
really is more of an augmented
experience yeah and of course you you
miss map anything you miss map the
Guardian system and and every any type
of misalignment screws this up
completely
yeah obviously with latency as well but
it's it went viral and the credit should
be there
I don't think this is how we'll be using
VR and hand tracking in the future no I
think that this is more of a a are
improving concept I do think that there
is opportunity to do some local slam and
slam it's already local but in terms of
using the cameras on a VR system if
you're gonna have some type I pass
through to also add geometry which they
kind of do right now with the
reprojection it wouldn't be this high
fidelity it wouldn't be this high
fidelity but also just recognizing
basically flat surfaces yes please my
right now VR menus is because people
have experimented with you I spend kind
of you know Ray casting and pinching and
grabbing things and maybe popping up a
UI on your hand your virtual hand but if
it could use slam to see that there is a
flat surface big enough whether it's a
wall or a tabletop to then plant a menu
on then having that tactile feedback
based in the real world in some type of
pass through a UH VRA our would be
certainly a different type of UI make UX
something I would love to try out man
it's so exciting that this technology I
love being at the beginning of it we've
been dating for a long time and so a
long ways we we worked the beginning
into video games for a long time the
early 80s and it continued to be
exciting like it was yeah yeah
Iron Man VR which we're excited to play
on PSP are delayed until May 15th again
same thing goes play game essentially be
good rush game will never be good wait
I'm sorry Iron Man's delay till when May
15th okay just a couple months yeah yeah
and are we ready to talk about Oh
otoscope permanent price cut one hundred
forty five hundred forty nine dollars
yeah it's gonna go away soon and removed
from their enterprise yeah I think so
they're not offering like super
corporate deals where they'll be able to
make cool experiences they're pushing
them to quest mm-hmm
what's back in stock though is the vive
deluxe audio i don't want it say that
you know it's not gonna be by the time
this airs are you sure yeah this is went
back on sale a few uh it's still it's
still available it's worth checking if
it was available it is it's still for
here Add to Cart all right good luck
people nine nine bucks well the best
upgrades you can get to a quest does
that add to cart' button
work for you oh maybe not
worth checking and something we'll
definitely be asking HCC about like it
was actually in stock on the Amazon and
according to Reddit do but yeah so
there's the weird stock coming back keep
your IO path of the warrior co-op
launched oddly you and I both tried it
the day was supposed to come out and we
didn't have the option in our menus we
will you know maybe it's got update got
it well you just installed it yet EA so
I don't know yeah I'm sure I'm sure that
was a few days ago it's probably live we
should try it I look forward to trying
it you know coops fun yeah yeah yep
and now we get to our valve news the nan
Alex news is that half-life games or
what one no left 4 dead 3 they've come
out and said you mean wall to go there
no still not working left for dat VR
yeah and it's not something there they
hadn't working on there was that rumors
that it was you know their next secret
project it is not one of the VR games
are working on right and also until
half-life Alex comes out the entire
suite of traditional half-life
flatscreen games from half-life 2 2
episode 2 that will be free to play on
Steam they well that's huge news yeah
including the mods to so you could
actually play the VR versions the VR
fan-made versions yeah you mean on Steam
or on quest
oh no I mean on either right yeah
because you can play half-life 1 on
quest by in side loading the executable
and then copying the source files over
there yeah if you own it on Steam and
it's completely legit and it's wonderful
they're the reason why they came out
with left 4 dead 3 isn't happening it's
because there was a weird leak from HTC
or somebody yeah I think there was a
PowerPoint presentation on HTC roadmap
to set in 2020 you know VR is gonna be
big because of things like half-life
Alex and then also they throw up their
left for dead lol ft3 years but it was
purely speculative on there what a weird
thing to happen very weird yeah yeah and
what and then they came out saying it
was just we're just guessing we really
don't know anything but clearly like
it's not happening yeah I don't think
valve is just doing a red herring uh and
then it lets
talk about the half-life Alex AMA so you
can go to Reddit right now read the full
thread it's a long thread the half-life
Alex team spent a couple hours answering
questions they drop a lot of information
we haven't even had a chance to parse
through all of it yep I'm gonna go
through some of the highlights including
the fact that they are on tract that
they believe for release in March not
right the game is done
they're not planning on shipping a full
SDK they'd like to see it released at
some point but it's a ton of work
because source 2 is a new tool set and
this is how they've done SDKs in the
previous source release making the game
takes precedence and after that they
looking at they look at what's next the
game is done 80 developers at valve
working on it their biggest development
team yet play testers at valve played
two entire game multiple times right now
they're doing polishing and fixing bugs
which is where they hope to be at this
point of the development cycle they plan
on releasing gameplay videos leading up
to launch so in the next month or so I
hope to see gameplay videos to showcase
not only gameplay elements but also VR
specific elements like the different
movement options so you dress new
movement options what else did they say
locomotion and comfort features are all
done including things like ceded game
play left handed mode and they have
almost all their accessibility work done
but there's a little more like they want
to build and support for one-armed play
so it would make reloading really very
different and they're gonna have videos
they said showing the different
locomotion options specifically this
interesting they say they don't render
arms fruit for all the good reasons that
I think we know about we talked about
before a lot of people miss that you
know I think that's you're missing the
point but they say that they actually do
simulate invisible arms yes which
connect from your hands back to your hmd
and we use those to detect impossible
things like completely closing a drawer
over your wrists oh yeah that makes
sense
so they used the uik yeah but the ika is
not shown because you don't want the
mismatch in the visuals if they can't
precisely show where your elbows are
mm-hmm for example the barnacles do you
saw them in the tested video some more
details they say they don't kill you
instantly you'll deal with them in
familiar ways and barnacles what do they
think of the ceilings yeah Sachin and
the opportunities afforded by VR give
you new methods use against them they
don't move the player so they don't grab
you and pull you your head up you just
take damage while you're underneath them
and the tongue is on you because they
don't want to disorient you and make you
uncomfortable I hope they're not playing
it too safe because I could I don't I
don't think I'd have a problem with that
you wish that was an option to turn on
yeah yeah yeah interesting yeah it
doesn't sound like that's gonna be there
yeah and they said as with many aspects
of working on this game they had to find
new ways to make well-worn mechanics and
other half-life's tables into the
specific framework of VR now they say
specifically calm when soldiers return
but in a form you've previously seen as
well as new variations that keep the
players busy and take advantage of VR
take advantage of VR how Jeremy I know
creatures respond to audio more than
other some creatures respond to some
creatures respond to audio more than
others others they don't want spoil
anything but there's an example of this
but they're particularly excited about
no what does that mean
I don't know hyper phone use that would
be cool as I've read I've hold your
whistling whoo oh that mean need like if
you if you have to do it certain things
over your voice or if it's part of it it
could there be an audio puzzle I mean it
doesn't have to be a saudi oh that you
create you could be knocking things over
the physics object and yeah I mean
distraction is the easy way to think
about it but yeah and then the answer to
why there's no jump in the game because
the game includes ability to mantle in
continuous motion so if you need to get
obstacle over an obstacle like a crate
or so forever you just mantle which
means you cannot leap over it by just
walking over it Wow
somebody is asking about horror and VR
and when Tristan one of the dev says
personally I admit I cannot deal with
headcrabs in general
and definitely not in VR if I'm testing
the game and I'm in an area where I know
one of those things is around I will
move the headset hold it off my face as
I play in 2d on a monitor what I mean
you can't talk about that but you
encountered a headcrab yourself I would
imagine any yeah yeah gosh well I mean
there's so many responses here and it's
well worth reading
weapons the weapons all require only one
hand but they can be optionally grabbed
and steadied by your offhand they wand
really wanted to focus on simultaneous
two-handed play throughout the game so
we need the player to always be easily
able to have a free hand so that's why
there's not traditional two-handed
weapons like a shotgun you hold with
with two hands and you brace and they
keep the free hand busy with the gravity
gloves and movement world interactions
flashlights and so on maybe we should
get this game sound good what's the call
again half-life Allen guy yeah I'll
preorder it I think came a pre-order
with your index purchase oh what a deal
what a deal indeed that might do it for
our episode this week I think I might
have an episode of projections and the
week depends how far along I get for
through the walking dead saints and
sinners which I've been playing and for
a review they say it's a 15 hour game
and it is a long game so far that's all
I can say about right now let us know
what you think of the card yeah yeah
apologies for those of you who have not
a chance to had a chance to watch it we
did it put our spoilers spoiler section
early on if I can make a suggestion for
the audio listeners maybe you could post
in the show notes the time code yeah our
discussion ends because but they won't
have the benefit of the rest screen
yeah you know what what am I do is I
might record a separate audio segment to
stick at the front of the episode to say
we have spoilers in the beginning you
jumped at this time yeah an audio
warning for the supress poi lers that
will require some symmetric work
we had a lot of great stuff on the site
it's what is this Thursday when this is
coming out oh you got to check the video
that we're supposed to put up on
Wednesday that we had T's on so entitled
is actually coming up Thursday hope you
guys enjoy
is this it that it will be this theta
part of it yep yeah yep
and um a lot of good stuff I guess all I
can say hey you guys you guys want to
promote talk about my daughter's turning
10 on Friday oh happy birthday and then
your am i sending 13 a couple weeks
later how does that work like in terms
of their like biologic does it work well
or not well in terms of siblings having
that's great birthdays are so close for
a couple weeks there are only two years
apart and I think she enjoys that oh you
know younger one yep enjoys it yep
got it yeah there's still maybe just a
little too close to Christmas but
besides that Wow
it's all good okay and do we been out
TRO this week potentially right Jeremy's
gonna look for that why does that I was
filibuster looking for more a bit
half-life Alex info I think in the
future if we had a chance to recap
Picard episodes we might do it toward
the end of the show and have a dedicated
segment so if you are a audio engineer
audio editing not mixing and you want to
create a segment interstitial music
piece for us for a Picard discussion
really welcome it I'm sure there's
plenty of fodder from this episode here
that's all it's tickets tablets and make
it so dan gay make it so engage you
can't do both go ahead engage tea
Noro gray sorry you're saying you were
doing the dramatic pause you go you go
there are four lights tea Oh gray hot no
chalk is that Klingon it seems likely on
da mock and you know
do you know what it's not me it's tested
calm
apparently the forums are officially
down oh so we have no out room I have no
access to out dress Oh No
okay we're gonna come up with another
place to put the outros if that truly is
the case or just do you think it's
permanently down dodo if it's not
loading you know what the site might be
down right now or it could be our
internet connection let's see if it
tested itself yeah tested itself is not
responding yeah
woof all right sorry no outro what
you're gonna get is what you just heard
our attempts at Picard sound effects hey
thanks for listening this week we'll be
back next week and we'll be probably
discussing Picard episode to seal and
