
Turkish: 
Çağ 1990'ların başında.
SGML'nin farkındaydım - eğer istersen ... 
Metin Kodlama Girişimi gibi şeylerde teknik olarak kullanılması.
Tim Berners-Lee’nin SGML’yi kullandığını duydum 
Web sayfası işaretleme teknolojisi,
ne yazık ki 'HTML' olarak adlandırılan.
Sadece 'Hypertext' demiş olsa çok daha iyi 
İşaretleme ', HTM,
hatta birisinin söylediği gibi, 'Tim'in Kendi Taget'i' 
TOT - buna ne dersin!
Ama sonunda 'ML' değil!
Bunu tam olarak aynı anda hatırlamak zorundasın.
neredeyse, 90'ların başında, PDF ortaya çıktı.
Ve Adobe ile çok iş yapıyordum.
Demek ki 'Avrupa Köprü Metni' toplantısı yapıldı.
Eylül 1994,
Bilgisayar Makinaları Birliği sponsorluğunda, 
Temelde Amerika Birleşik Devletleri'nde bizim profesyonel organımızdır.
Ben de düşündüm ki: "Her şey SGML ile ilgili olacak, 
HTML ve tüm bu tür şeyler,

English: 
The era is the early 1990s.
I was aware of SGML - aware of, if you like, the very 
technical usage of it in things like the Text Encoding Initiative.
I'd heard about Tim Berners-Lee's usage of SGML 
technology for Web page markup,
in the unfortunately named 'HTML'.
So much better if he'd called it just 'Hypertext 
Markup', HTM,
or even, as somebody said, 'Tim's Own Tagset', 
TOT - how about that!
But not 'ML' at the end!
You have to remember that at exactly the same time,
almost, in the early '90s, PDF came about.
And I was doing a lot of work with Adobe.
So there was this 'European Hypertext' meeting in
September 1994,
sponsored by the Association for Computing Machinery, 
which is basically our professional body in the States.
and I thought: "Wwell, it's all going to be about SGML, 
HTML, and all this kind of thing,

English: 
The era is the early 1990s.
I was aware of SGML - aware of, if you like, the very 
technical usage of it in things like the Text Encoding Initiative.
I'd heard about Tim Berners-Lee's usage of SGML 
technology for Web page markup,
in the unfortunately named 'HTML'.
So much better if he'd called it just 'Hypertext 
Markup', HTM,
or even, as somebody said, 'Tim's Own Tagset', 
TOT - how about that!
But not 'ML' at the end!
You have to remember that at exactly the same time,
almost, in the early '90s, PDF came about.
And I was doing a lot of work with Adobe.
So there was this 'European Hypertext' meeting in
September 1994,
sponsored by the Association for Computing Machinery, 
which is basically our professional body in the States.
and I thought: "Well, it's all going to be about SGML, 
HTML, and all this kind of thing,

English: 
but just to say that there are other notations for documents, 
and other things where you can embed hyperlinks, even,
I want to talk about PDF!"
because my group here was, I think, the UK's first ever beta 
test site for PDF. We've got a lot of experience.
And I thought: "Just as balance, I'll put in a paper about 
the use of PDF", and it was accepted,
So, I think the organisers realised you needed a bit of 
a balancing discussion.
I gave my talk and it went down very well,
although I think some of the more 'who cares about 
appearance?' brigade were...
"PDF, it's so messy! It looks beautiful, but inside 
it's a mess! It needs more structure!"
They just wanted the markup.
The fact that whether you want to do it in Times Roman 
or Palatino or Optima, "That's for graphics artists to worry about.
All we're concerned is... y'know ... it's a Heading."

English: 
but just to say that there are other notations for documents, 
and other things where you can embed hyperlinks, even,
I want to talk about PDF!"
because my group here was, I think, the UK's first ever beta 
test site for PDF. We've got a lot of experience.
And I thought: "Just as balance, I'll put in a paper about 
the use of PDF", and it was accepted,
So, I think the organisers realised you needed a bit of 
a balancing discussion.
I gave my talk and it went down very well,
although I think some of the more 'who cares about 
appearance?' brigade were...
"PDF, it's so messy! It looks beautiful, but inside 
it's a mess! It needs more structure!"
They just wanted the markup.
The fact that whether you want to do it in Times Roman 
or in Palatino or in Optima, "That's for graphics artists 
to worry about.
All we're concerned is... y'know ... it's a Heading."

Turkish: 
fakat sadece belgeler için başka notlar olduğunu söylemek için, 
ve hatta köprüler gömebileceğiniz diğer şeyleri bile,
PDF hakkında konuşmak istiyorum! "
çünkü buradaki grubum, sanırım, İngiltere'nin ilk beta 
PDF için test sitesi. Çok fazla tecrübemiz var.
Ve düşündüm ki: "Aynen denge gibi, hakkında bir bildiri koyacağım 
PDF kullanımı "ve kabul edildi,
Yani, organizatörler biraz ihtiyaç duyduğunu anladılar. 
dengeleyici bir tartışma.
Konuşmamı yaptım ve çok iyi düştü.
Her ne kadar biraz daha fazla umursadığımı düşünüyorum da. 
görünüm?' tugay ...
"PDF, çok dağınık! Güzel görünüyor, ama içeride 
bu bir karmaşa! Daha fazla yapıya ihtiyacı var! "
Sadece işaretlemeyi istediler.
Times Roma'da yapmak isteyip istemediğiniz gerçeği 
veya Palatino'da veya Optima'da "Bu grafik sanatçılar için 
endişelenmek.
Tek endişelendiğimiz ... bilirsin ... bu bir başlık. "

English: 
So at the end of my talk, I had a lot of very interesting 
questions - because PDF was pretty new technology.
But marching up the aisle towards me - and I did recognise 
him from photographs,
It's the only time we've ever met - was Tim Berners-Lee, 
now Sir Tim.
He came up, shook my hand, said "I really enjoyed that."
He said, "You know, it won't go down well with everybody here,
but I think we're in for a document universe where we've got 
to try and make detailed, tight appearance, co-exist with structure,
and it's going to be a struggle."
How right he was! We're still struggling with those 
20, 30 years later.
So he said, "You know all this flak I've been getting about 
calling it HTML,
and why couldn't I've done my homework more thoroughly 
before I defined it?
We're having a panel session, we're going to try and 
get all these issues sorted out,
Would you like to come along?"
So I said "Yeah, sure, fine."
So I went into this big hall and there were parallel 
panel sessions, but this was by far and away the most popular.
Believe me, viewers, I was there.

Turkish: 
Bu yüzden konuşmamın sonunda çok ilginçti. 
sorular - çünkü PDF oldukça yeni bir teknolojiydi.
Ama bana doğru olan koridorda yürürken - ve tanıdım 
fotoğraflardan onu
Şimdiye kadar tanıştığımız tek zaman - Tim Berners-Lee, 
şimdi Sör Tim.
O geldi, elimi sıktı, “Bundan gerçekten zevk aldım” dedi.
"Bilirsin, buradaki herkesle iyi sonuçlanmayacak" dedi.
ama sanırım sahip olduğumuz bir belge evreninde olduğumuzu 
detaylı, sıkı bir görünüm sergilemek, yapıyla bir arada var olmak,
ve bu bir mücadele olacak. "
Ne kadar haklıydı! Hala onlarla mücadele ediyoruz 
20, 30 yıl sonra.
O da dedi ki: "Aldığım tüm bu saçmalıkları biliyorsun. 
HTML olarak adlandırmak
ve neden ödevimi daha iyi yapamadım 
tanımlamadan önce mi?
Panel oturumumuz var, deneyeceğiz ve 
tüm bu sorunları çözüme kavuşturmak,
"Gelmek ister misiniz?"
Ben de "Evet, elbette, iyi" dedim.
Bu yüzden bu büyük salona girdim ve paralellik vardı 
panel oturumları, ancak bu uzak ve en popüler oldu.
İnan bana, izleyiciler oradaydım.

English: 
So at the end of my talk, I had a lot of very interesting 
questions - because PDF was pretty new technology.
But marching up the aisle towards me - and I did recognise 
him from photographs,
It's the only time we've ever met - was Tim Berners-Lee, 
now Sir Tim.
He came up, shook my hand, said "I really enjoyed that."
He said, "You know, it won't go down well with everybody here,
but I think we're in for a document universe where we've got 
to try and make detailed, tight appearance, co-exist with structure,
and it's going to be a struggle."
How right he was! We're still struggling with those 
20, 30 years later.
So he said, "You know all this flak I've been getting about 
calling it HTML,
and why couldn't I've done my homework more thoroughly 
before I defined it?
We're having a panel session, we're going to try and 
get all these issues sorted out,
Would you like to come along?"
So I said "Yeah, sure, fine."
So I went into this big hall and there were parallel 
panel sessions, but this was by far and away the most popular.
Believe me, viewers, I was there.

English: 
It was wonderful!
At the front were...
people... two rival armies almost!
Standing up at the front, making their pitch.
And I classified them straight away
as either being "theologians" or "browser pragmatists".
And you've got to remember that this was two years 
after Tim first did the HTML thing.
And companies like Netscape, who were the leaders 
at the time,
and, getting in on the act, Internet Explorer from 
Microsoft,
saw immediately the potential of this standardised 
markup, which they hoped really was standardised --
or maybe they didn't hope,
because it became very clear that Netscape and IE 
[Internet Explorer] having got hold of this,
would love to be in a market-dominant position.
You know, extra tags were needed inside this HTML
It's good for a start, but there's all sorts of 
things you could do with it.
Let's add a few more tags!
And it goes without saying

English: 
It was wonderful!
At the front were...
people... two rival armies almost!
Standing up at the front, making their pitch.
And I classified them straight away
as either being "theologians" or "browser pragmatists".
And you've got to remember that this was two years 
after Tim first did the HTML thing.
And companies like Netscape, who were the leaders 
at the time,
and, getting in on the act, Internet Explorer from 
Microsoft,
saw immediately the potential of this standardised 
markup, which they hoped really was standardised --
or maybe they didn't hope,
because it became very clear that Netscape and IE 
[Internet Explorer] having got hold of this,
would love to be in a market-dominant position.
You know, extra tags were needed inside this HTML
It's good for a start, but there's all sorts of 
things you could do with it.
Let's add a few more tags!
And it goes without saying

Turkish: 
Harikaydı!
Ön tarafta ...
insanlar ... neredeyse iki rakip ordusu!
Ön tarafta ayakta dururlar, adımlarını atarlar.
Onları hemen sınıflandırdım.
"ilahiyatçılar" veya "tarayıcı pragmatistleri" olarak.
Ve bunun iki yıl olduğunu hatırlamalısın 
Tim'den sonra ilk HTML şeyini yaptım.
Ve lider olan Netscape gibi şirketler 
zamanında,
ve, harekete geçerken, Internet Explorer’dan 
Microsoft,
bu standardize edilmiş potansiyelini hemen gördüm 
ümit ettikleri markup standardize edilmiştir -
veya belki de umut etmediler,
çünkü Netscape ve IE’nin çok net olduğu anlaşıldı. 
[Internet Explorer] bunu ele geçirmiş
piyasaya hakim bir konumda olmayı çok isterdim.
Biliyorsun, bu HTML’de fazladan etiket gerekli.
Bir başlangıç ​​için iyi, ama her türlü 
onunla yapabileceğin şeyler.
Birkaç etiket daha ekleyelim!
Ve demeden gider

English: 
that the Netscape additions were totally different 
to the Internet Explorer additions,
and this whole thing that we covered in the last 
video about the underlying technology of SGML
allowing you to omit tags so long as you thought 
it was safe to do so - well, guess what?
Netscape and Internet Explorer had different 
omittability specifications.
And one way or another, it meant that a thing 
that worked beautifully in Netscape
was going to fall over - all over the place! -
in Internet Explorer.
What was to be done about this?
There was no standards body at the time.
So... they were doing their own thing, 
but in the meantime,
the opposing army was a bunch of people 
who'd been with SGML ever since day one, 
and loved it dearly,
and were very fond of carrying around this book,
['SGML Handbook' - Charles F. Goldfarb]
as if it was a sort of... some kind of precious 
holy book.
['SGML Handbook' - Charles F. Goldfarb]
This had the full spec.
['SGML Handbook' - Charles F. Goldfarb]
Things really started going downhill

Turkish: 
Netscape ilavelerinin tamamen farklı olduğunu 
Internet Explorer eklerine,
ve en son ele aldığımız bu şey 
SGML'nin temel teknolojisi hakkında video
etiketleri düşündüğünüz sürece çıkarmanıza izin vermek 
Bunu yapmak güvenliydi - peki, tahmin et ne oldu?
Netscape ve Internet Explorer farklıydı 
ihmal edilebilirlik özellikleri.
Ve öyle ya da böyle, bir anlamı vardı. 
Netscape'de güzelce çalıştı
her yere düşmek üzereydi! -
Internet Explorer’da
Bu konuda ne yapılmalıydı?
O zamanlar standart organı yoktu.
Yani ... kendi işlerini yapıyorlardı. 
Ama bu arada,
muhalif ordu bir grup insandı 
kim ilk günden beri SGML ile olmuştur 
ve çok sevdim
ve bu kitabı taşımayı çok severlerdi.
['SGML El Kitabı' - Charles F. Goldfarb]
Sanki bir çeşit değerliymiş gibi 
kutsal Kitap.
['SGML El Kitabı' - Charles F. Goldfarb]
Bu tam özellik vardı.
['SGML El Kitabı' - Charles F. Goldfarb]
İşler gerçekten yokuş aşağı gitmeye başladı

English: 
that the Netscape additions were totally different 
to the Internet Explorer additions,
and this whole thing that we covered in the last 
video about the underlying technology of SGML
allowing you to omit tags so long as you thought 
it was safe to do so - well, guess what?
Netscape and Internet Explorer had different 
omitability specifications.
And one way or another, it meant that a thing 
that worked beautifully in Netscape
was going to fall over - all over the place! -
in Internet Explorer.
What was to be done about this?
There was no standards body at the time.
So... they were doing their own thing, 
but in the meantime,
the opposing army was a bunch of people 
who'd been with SGML ever since day one, 
and loved it dearly,
and were very fond of carrying around this book,
['SGML Handbook' - Charles F. Goldfarb]
as if it was a sort of... some kind of precious 
holy book.
['SGML Handbook' - Charles F. Goldfarb]
This had the full spec.
['SGML Handbook' - Charles F. Goldfarb]
Things really started going downhill

English: 
when one of the theologians held this up, pointed 
at the chap from Netscape and said,
"If only you'd read this carefully from cover to 
cover before you wrote a SINGLE line of code,
we'd be in a lot better state than we are now!"
Oh boy, yes!
And of course, there was the immediate response,
saying "Some of us, buddy, don't have ten years 
to take in all of this stuff!"
And then it got even worse, because they said,
"The difficulty that you people are in, IE 
and Netscape with all this,
you know, it took Tim a while for us to convince him,
you must give a spec of when tags are omissible,
you must give the spec of what's a legal tag"
We call this a DTD - a Document Type Definition.
"Such a shame that people never thought to write 
one of these properly before they started to code!"
And so the guy said, "Look, are you seriously saying

Turkish: 
ilahiyatçılardan biri bunu yaptığında, 
Netscape’in başındaki ve
"Keşke bunu baştan sona dikkatlice okusaydın 
bir TEK kod satırı yazmadan önce,
"şimdi olduğumuzdan çok daha iyi bir durumda oluruz!"
Ah oğlum, evet!
Ve elbette, anında cevap geldi.
"Bazılarımızın dostum, on yılı yok 
tüm bu şeyleri içine almak için! "
Ve daha da kötüye gitti, çünkü dediler ki,
"Sizlerin içinde bulunduğunuz zorluk, IE 
ve tüm bunlarla Netscape,
Bilirsin, Tim'i ikna etmemiz biraz zaman aldı.
etiketlerin ne zaman müsait olamayacağına dair bir açıklama yapmalısınız,
"yasal etiketin ne olduğunu belirtmelisin"
Buna DTD diyoruz - Belge Türü Tanımı.
"İnsanların asla yazmayı düşünmediği böyle bir utanç 
Bunlardan biri düzgünce kodlamaya başlamadan önce! "
Ve böylece adam dedi ki, "Bak, cidden mi diyorsun?

English: 
when one of the theologians held this up, pointed 
at the chap from Netscape and said,
"If only you'd read this carefully from cover to 
cover before you wrote a SINGLE line of code,
we'd be in a lot better state than we are now!"
Oh boy, yes!
And of course, there was the immediate response,
saying "Some of us, buddy, don't have ten years 
to take in all of this stuff!"
And then it got even worse, because they said,
"The difficulty that you people are in, IE 
and Netscape with all this,
you know, it took Tim a while for us to convince him,
you must give a spec of when tags are omissible,
you must give the spec of what's a legal tag"
We call this a DTD - a Document Type Definition.
"Such a shame that people never thought to write 
one of these properly before they started to code!"
And so the guy said, "Look, are you seriously saying

English: 
that it's not just checking whether this markup 
inside the Web page forms a tree and a sequence,
You want us to be looking, all the time, at the 
tagset spec to see what's omissible, and what isn't?"
"Yes, of course!" said the theologians -
you know, in unison - "Of course!
You keep the DTD with you while you are parsing."
The man from Netscape did a John McEnroe!
VOICEOVER (McENROE): "You can't be serious, man.
You CANNOT be serious!"
>> DFB: "You cannot be serious! You want me to be looking 
over my shoulder ALL THE TIME at the language spec while 
I'm just trying to display something?"
"Oh by the way..." said Lead Theologian,
"something else we ought to mention.
"When you get a partly correct Web page, but with mistakes...
...you're displaying part of it to people!
Don't do that!"
Total disbelief from the other camp,
jaws dropping - "What do you want us to do?"
"Easy! Behave like a compiler. Issue an 
error report.

English: 
that it's not just checking whether this markup 
inside the Web page forms a tree and a sequence,
You want us to be looking, all the time, at the 
tagset spec to see what's omissible, and what isn't?"
"Yes, of course!" said the theologians -
you know, in unison - "Of course!
You keep the DTD with you while you are parsing."
The man from Netscape did a John McEnroe!
VOICEOVER (McENROE): "You can't be serious, man.
You CANNOT be serious!"
>> DFB: "You cannot be serious! You want me to be looking 
over my shoulder ALL THE TIME at the language spec while 
I'm just trying to display something?"
"Oh by the way..." said Lead Theologian,
"something else we ought to mention.
"When you get a partly correct Web page, but with mistakes...
...you're displaying part of it to people!
Don't do that!"
Total disbelief from the other camp,
jaws dropping - "What do you want us to do?"
"Easy! Behave like a compiler. Issue an 
error report.

Turkish: 
sadece bu işaretlemenin olup olmadığını kontrol etmiyor 
Web sayfasının içinde bir ağaç ve bir sekans oluşturur.
Her zaman, bizim 
etiketleme özelliğinin neyin mümkün olmadığını ve ne olmadığını görmek için belirtin. "
"Evet tabi ki!" ilahiyatçılar söyledi -
Bilirsin, hep birlikte - "Elbette!
Ayrıştırırken DTD'yi yanınızda bulundurun. "
Netscape'den adam John McEnroe yaptı!
VOICEOVER (McENROE): "Ciddi olamazsın dostum.
Ciddi olamazsın!"
>> DFB: "Ciddi olamazsın! Bakmamı istiyorsun 
omzumun üzerinden TÜM ZAMAN dilini belirtirken 
Sadece bir şey mi göstermeye çalışıyorum?
“Bu arada…” dedi Kurşun Teolog,
"Söylememiz gereken başka bir şey var.
"Kısmen doğru bir Web sayfası aldığınızda, ancak hatalarla ...
... bunun bir kısmını insanlara sergiliyorsunuz!
Yapma bunu! "
Diğer kamptan tamamen inkar etme,
çeneler atıyor - "Ne yapmamızı istiyorsun?"
"Kolay! Bir derleyici gibi davranın. 
hata raporu.

Turkish: 
'Web sayfasındaki hata:  etiketi atlandı 
buna izin verilmediğinde
ya da böyle bir şey. Tıpkı bir derleyici gibi 
Bilirsin."
“Her şeyden önce,” dedi Yüksek Rahip, “Hiçbir şey göstermiyorsun!
Çünkü eğer bir şeyi gösterirseniz, 
yanlış, kötü alışkanlıklara yol açar. "
[güler] Ve sanırım bana bir süredir söylediğiniz gibi 
Sean, bu insanlar ne tür gerçek dünyada yaşıyorlardı?
Çünkü, elbette, bunun yorumlanmasıyla 
Sistem, herkes Web sayfaları konusunda çok heyecanlı.
Tarayıcı üreticisi için gideceksin 
senin yetersizliklerini tolere eden,
Çünkü şimdi el kodlu Web sayfalarından bahsediyoruz.
Size tahammül ederse ve size biraz fikir verirse 
ne oluyor
Ve nereye yanlış gittiğimi anlayabilirsin, tamam!
Ama uzun bir liste ile sona ermek için 
derleyici hata mesajları
"Sayfanız eksik. Tekrar deneyin. Yeniden Derleyin",
ve bunun gibi,
Belli ki iyi gitmeyecek.

English: 
Say, 'Error in Web page:  tag omitted 
when this is not allowed'
or something like this. Just like a compiler, 
you know."
"Above all," said the high priest, "you display nothing!
Because if you display something, when it's 
incorrect, it leads to bad habits."
[laughing] And I think as you've said to me many a time, 
Sean, what kind of real world were these people living in?
Because, of course, with this being an interpreted 
system, everybody's very excited about Web pages,
You are going to go for the browser manufacturer 
who tolerates your inadequacies,
Because we're talking about hand-coded Web pages now.
If it tolerates you and gives you some idea of 
what's happening
and you can sort of see where I must've gone wrong, fine!
But to sort of end up with a great long list of 
compiler error messages
saying "Your page is deficient. Try again. Recompile",
and so on,
it's obviously not gonna go down well.

English: 
Say, 'Error in Web page:  tag omitted 
when this is not allowed'
or something like this. Just like a compiler, 
you know."
"Above all," said the High Priest, "you display nothing!
Because if you display something, when it's 
incorrect, it leads to bad habits."
[laughing] And I think as you've said to me many a time, 
Sean, what kind of real world were these people living in?
Because, of course, with this being an interpreted 
system, everybody's very excited about Web pages,
You are going to go for the browser manufacturer 
who tolerates your inadequacies,
Because we're talking about hand-coded Web pages now.
If it tolerates you and gives you some idea of 
what's happening
and you can sort of see where I must've gone wrong, fine!
But to sort of end up with a great long list of 
compiler error messages
saying "Your page is deficient. Try again. Recompile",
and so on,
it's obviously not gonna go down well.

English: 
>> SEAN: I can imagine if Safari, Firefox or Chrome 
just didn't display anything
because there was a mistake on it,
I'm not gonna use that browser.
>> DFB: No! Exactly so!
And I mean the other thing that the high priests 
were getting really upset about
was - we all know that inside a well-constructed 
Web page -
You open a , and you close a 
[with a forward stroke] for a paragraph.
But inside that, you say,
"Oh I want all of this to be in bold."
So you open up a bold tag, and you should 
close the bold tag.
But what happens if you do it in the wrong order?
You open a , you open a ,
   
but then instead of closing  and closing ,
   
 
...you do that.
   
 
That's called an overlapping hierarchy -
You turn off 'paragraph' before you turn off 'bold',
it should be the other way around.
Again, absolute fury from the theologians -
"You are allowing overlapping hierarchies! 
Just ignoring..."
...and all this kind of stuff(!)
I mean... oh, it was wonderful!
And to my great dismay, I actually had to leave 
the meeting early.

English: 
>> SEAN: I can imagine if Safari, or Firefox or Chrome 
just didn't display anything
because there was a mistake on it,
I'm not gonna use that browser.
>> DFB: No! Exactly so!
And I mean the other thing that the high priests 
were getting really upset about
was - we all know that inside a well-constructed 
Web page -
You open a , and you close a 
[with a forward stroke] for a paragraph.
But inside that, you say,
"Oh I want all of this to be in bold."
So you open up a bold tag, and you should 
close the bold tag.
But what happens if you do it in the wrong order?
You open a , you open a ,
   
but then instead of closing  and closing ,
   
 
...you do that.
   
 
That's called an overlapping hierarchy -
You turn off 'paragraph' before you turn off 'bold',
it should be the other way around.
Again, absolute fury from the theologians -
"You are allowing overlapping hierarchies! 
Just ignoring..."
...and all this kind of stuff(!)
I mean... oh, it was wonderful!
And to my great dismay, I actually had to leave 
the meeting early.

Turkish: 
>> SEAN: Safari veya Firefox veya Chrome olup olmadığını hayal edebiliyorum. 
sadece bir şey göstermedim
çünkü bir yanlışlık vardı.
Bu tarayıcıyı kullanmayacağım.
>> DFB: Hayır! Aynen öyle!
Ve ben yüksek rahiplerin olduğu diğer şeyi kastediyorum 
Gerçekten sinirleniyorlardı
öyleydi - hepimiz biliyoruz ki burası iyi inşa edilmiş. 
İnternet sayfası -
Bir  açarsınız ve bir  kapatırsınız
[ileri vuruşlu] bir paragraf için.
Ama bunun içinde diyorsun ki
“Ah, bunların hepsinin kalın olmasını istiyorum.”
Öyleyse kalın bir etiket açarsın ve yapmalısın. 
kalın etiketi kapatın.
Ama yanlış sırayla yaparsan ne olur?
Bir  açarsınız, bir  açarsınız,
   
ancak daha sonra  ve kapanma  yerine,
   
 
...onu yap.
   
 
Buna örtüşen bir hiyerarşi denir -
'Paragrafı' kapatmadan önce 'paragrafı' kapatırsanız,
Öbür türlü olmalı.
Yine, ilahiyatçıların mutlak öfke -
"Örtüşen hiyerarşilere izin veriyorsun! 
Sadece görmezden geliyorum ... "
... ve tüm bu tür şeyler (!)
Yani ... oh, harikaydı!
Ve büyük dehşetime, aslında gitmek zorunda kaldım 
Toplantı erken.

English: 
Believe it or not, later that day, I was flying down 
from Edinburgh to Birmingham
because I was down, somewhere, to give a talk about PDF.
It was essentially a very similar one to the one 
I'd given in Edinburgh.
So I went away and just thought, "This is incredible",
but realising this was a watershed.
It was really THE meeting to be at and when you 
looked at the title of it, y'know  -
'Is it Poison or Panacea', HTML?
Panacea, of course, is a Greek word, I think,
for a cure-all, isn't it?
>> SEAN: Yeah, that's it, yeah.
>> DFB: Yeah 'cure for all ills', I think, 
is what it means,
And it was a very good choice of title, and it 
was THE most significant confrontation I think 
I've ever been to in my life.
And I think Tim sent me an email afterwards, or 
maybe somebody told me about this, but anyway,
I got a message but I had to go to Birmingham, cursing 
having to get the plane.
And I sort of said, "Well, what happened?"
He said: "Easy!" [inhales] "Told them all they were all 
correct, and took them off to the pub,
and bought lots of pints of beer.
We had a very good meeting that went on into the evening."

Turkish: 
İster inan ister inanma, o günün ilerleyen saatlerinde aşağıya uçuyordum 
Edinburgh şehrinden Birmingham
çünkü PDF hakkında bir konuşma yapmak için bir yerdeydim.
Aslında bir birine çok benziyordu 
Edinburgh’da verdim.
Ben de gittim ve düşündüm ki, "Bu inanılmaz",
ama bunun farkına varmak bir su havzasıydı.
Gerçekten ne zaman ve ne zaman olacağınızla tanışmak oldu. 
unvanına baktım, biliyorsun -
'Zehir mi, Panacea mı', HTML?
Panacea, elbette, bir Yunanca kelime, sanırım,
tedavi için, değil mi?
>> SEAN: Evet, işte bu, evet.
>> DFB: Evet 'tüm hastalıklar için tedavi', sanırım, 
ne anlama geldiğini
Ve çok iyi bir seçimdi. 
sanırım en önemli çatışmadı 
Hayatımda bulundum hiç.
Ve sanırım Tim daha sonra bana bir e-posta gönderdi. 
belki biri bana bundan bahsetti, ama neyse,
Mesajım var ama küfrederek Birmingham’a gitmek zorunda kaldım 
uçağı almak zorundayım.
Ben de dedim ki, "Ne oldu?"
Dedi ki: "Kolay!" [inhales] "Hepsini hepsine anlattı 
düzeltip onları bara götürdüler,
ve bir sürü bira aldın.
Akşama doğru çok güzel bir toplantı yaptık. "

English: 
Believe it or not, later that day, I was flying down 
from Edinburgh to Birmingham
because I was down, somewhere, to give a talk about PDF.
It was essentially a very similar one to the one 
I'd given in Edinburgh.
So I went away and just thought, "This is incredible",
but realising this was a watershed.
It was really THE meeting to be at and when you 
looked at the title of it, y'know  -
'Is it Poison or Panacea', HTML?
Panacea, of course, is a Greek word, I think,
for a cure-all, isn't it?
>> SEAN: Yeah, that's it, yeah.
>> DFB: Yeah 'cure for all ills', I think, 
is what it means,
And it was a very good choice of title, and it 
was THE most significant confrontation I've think 
I've ever been to in my life.
And I think Tim sent me an email afterwards, or 
maybe somebody told me about this, but anyway,
I got a message but I had to go to Birmingham, cursing 
having to get the plane.
And I sort of said, "What happened?"
He said: "Easy!" [inhales] "Told them all they were all 
correct, and took them off to the pub,
and bought lots of pints of beer.
We had a very good meeting that went on into the evening."

English: 
And what Tim asked was for Jon Bosak of Sun Microsystems
and Tim Bray, a very respected SGML user and guru,
to please lead a committee of experts -
first of all, actually for HTML itself -
"Please will you write me a DTD?
I know I should've done one,
but is it possible to write a DTD that makes 
it SGML compliant?
But then, can you tackle the problem of saying 
SGML is problematical because it allows omitted end tags?"
plus all sorts of other things, minor things.
Can you within 18 months, no more, do a very quick report 
on how to do a subset of full SGML
that's cleaner, which insists on end-tags being there,

Turkish: 
Tim'in sorduğu şey Sun Microsystems'dan Jon Bosak içindi.
ve saygın bir SGML kullanıcısı ve gurusu olan Tim Bray,
Lütfen bir uzmanlar komitesine liderlik etmek için -
her şeyden önce, aslında HTML'nin kendisi için -
"Lütfen bana bir DTD yazacak mısın?
Bir tane yapmam gerektiğini biliyorum.
ancak bunu yapan bir DTD yazmak mümkün müdür 
SGML uyumlu mu?
Ama sonra söyleyerek sorununu çözebilir misin? 
"SGML çıkarılmış son etiketlere izin verdiği için sorunlu mu?"
artı başka türlü şeyler, küçük şeyler.
18 ay içinde, daha fazla, çok hızlı bir rapor yapabilir misiniz? 
tam bir SGML alt kümesinin nasıl yapılacağı
Bu, daha temiz, ki bu da son etiketlerinin orada olması konusunda ısrar ediyor.

English: 
And what Tim asked was for Jon Bosak of Sun Microsystems
and Tim Bray, a very respected SGML user and guru,
to please lead a committee of experts -
first of all, actually for HTML itself -
"Please will you write me a DTD?
I know I should've done one,
but is it possible to write a DTD that makes 
it SGML compliant?
But then, can you tackle the problem of saying 
SGML is problematical because it allows omitted end tags?"
plus all sorts of other things, minor things.
Can you within 18 months, no more, do a very quick report 
on how to do a subset of full SGML
that's cleaner, which insists on end-tags being there,

Turkish: 
- izin vermez - SGML’nin yaptığı gibi - için 
Büyük harflerle küçük harflerde  ile aynı şekilde ele alınır,
Bu, delikli kart günlerinden bir akşamdan kalma. 
Zaten her şeyin büyük harfle sonuçlanma eğiliminde olduğu,
ve her türlü korkunç şey - sivriltebilirsiniz 
Bir etiket bildirimi ortasında parantez yorum.
Çeşitli özelleşmiş kabuslar 
Bu video ile gitmek için beraberindeki notlarda ortaya koydu.
Ve temelde, kabul edildi - "Bunu almalıyız 
hızlı bir şekilde dışarı "- XML ​​olarak bilinen şey.
Ve sözleri kadar iyiydiler. sanırım öyleydi 
1996 ilk XML taslak spec teslim edildiğinde.
İki şey buldular: XML - bu bir altkümedir, 
temiz, soyut altküme -
Ama onlar vardı iken yaptıkları ikinci şey oldu 
"Doğru, size HTML’nin SGML sürümü için bir DTD yaptık.
"Size DTD'yi yazdık Tim. 
yıllar önce yazılmış

English: 
which doesn't allow - as SGML does - for the fact that  
in capitals is treated the same as  in lower-case,
This is a hangover from punch card days, you see, 
where everything tended to end up in upper case anyway,
and all sorts of horrendous things - you could put pointy 
bracket comments in the middle of a tag declaration.
Various other more specialised nightmares which I'll 
put out for you in accompanying notes to go with this video.
And basically, it was agreed - "We've got to get this 
out quickly" - what came to be known as XML.
And they were as good as their word. I think it was 
1996 when the first XML draft spec was delivered.
They came up with two things: XML - which is a subset, 
the clean, abstract subset -
But the second thing they did while they were at it was 
to say "Right, we've done you a DTD for the SGML version of HTML,
"We wrote you the DTD, Tim, that you should've 
written years ago,

English: 
which doesn't allow - as SGML does - for the fact that  
in capitals as being treated the same as  in lower-case,
This is a hangover from punch card days, you see, 
where everything tended to end up in upper case anyway,
and all sorts of horrendous things - you could put pointy 
bracket comments in the middle of a tag declaration?"
Various other more specialised nightmares which I'll 
put out for you in accompanying notes to go with this video.
And basically, it was agreed - "We've got to get this 
out quickly" - what came to be known as XML.
And they were as good as their word. I think it was 
1996 when the first XML draft spec was delivered.
They came up with two things: XML - which is a subset, 
the clean, abstract subset -
But the second thing they did while they were at it was 
to say "Right, we've done you a DTD for the SGML version of HTML,
"We wrote you the DTD, Tim, that you should've years ago,

English: 
"But just notice how much cleaner and nicer the tag set 
spec is when we do it with XML
and we don't let omitted end tags happen, ever!"
And everybody was convinced,
and said, "Oh, who cares about extra disk space? 
It doesn't cost anything these days."
>> SEAN: These kind of conferences and panel discussions 
and confrontation,
Do they accomplish as much as a night in the pub?
>> DFB: [laughs] I think you needed both.
You needed the full and frank exchange of opinions,
but then you needed a calming-down period with lots 
of beer in the pub,
And I think the assertion that actually there was 
right on both sides is absolutely correct,
A lot of good lessons were learned from that, yeah.
I think it was Tim and others, but they chose well in 
asking Jon Bosak of Sun, and Tim Bray,

Turkish: 
"Etiket kümesinin ne kadar temiz ve güzel olduğunu görün 
spec XML ile yaptığımız zaman
ve hiçbir zaman çıkarılmayan etiketlerin olmasına izin vermeyiz! "
Ve herkes ikna olmuştu,
ve "Ah, fazladan disk alanı kimin umrunda? 
Bugünlerde hiçbir şeye mal olmuyor. "
>> SEAN: Bu tür konferanslar ve panel tartışmaları 
ve yüzleşme,
Barda bir gece kadar başarılılar mı?
>> DFB: [güler] Sanırım ikisine de ihtiyacın vardı.
Dürüst ve net görüş alışverişine ihtiyacınız vardı.
ama sonra çok sakinleştirici bir süre gerekli 
barda bira
Ve sanırım aslında var olduğu iddiasını 
Her iki tarafta hakkı kesinlikle doğru,
Bundan çok iyi dersler alındı.
Bence Tim ve diğerleriydi, ama iyi seçtiler. 
Jon Bosak'tan Sun ve Tim Bray'e sormak,

English: 
"But just notice how much cleaner and nicer the tag set 
spec is when we do it with XML
and we don't let omitted end tags happen, ever!"
And everybody was convinced,
and said, "Oh, who cares about extra disk space? 
It doesn't cost anything these days."
>> SEAN: These kind of conferences and panel discussions 
and confrontation,
Do they accomplish as much as a night in the pub?
>> DFB: [laughs] I think you needed both.
You needed the full and frank exchange of opinions,
but then you needed a calming-down period with lots 
of beer in the pub,
And I think the assertion that actually there was 
right on both sides is absolutely correct,
A lot of good lessons were learned from that.
I think it was Tim and others, but they chose well in 
asking Jon Bosak of Sun, and Tim Bray,

English: 
some very respected authorities to actually try and 
get the basic tagset technology sorted,
the XML to be a proper subset of SGML,
And in one of the requirements spec it says,
"Brevity is to be of minimal importance."
In other words: "Don't go bananas about missing out 
all your end tags because it halves the size of your files.
We don't care any more. If they're tough to parse, fine."
And the thing they ended up with in XML was what the browser 
people wanted all along.
To say, "I don't need to know the full tag set spec in 
the first instance,
I just want to check if what you've given me - that  all 
the tags match and it's a tree?
I don't care what it says in the tags, but do they match 
up correctly to form a tree structure?
I don't need to have the DTD to tell if it's a tree 
structure, whereas with SGML you did."

English: 
some very respected authorities, to actually try and 
get the basic tagset technology sorted,
the XML to be a proper subset of SGML,
And in one of the requirements in the requirements 
spec it says, "Brevity is to be of minimal importance."
In other words: "Don't go bananas about missing out 
all your end tags because it halves the size of your files.
We don't care any more. If they're tough to parse, fine."
And the thing, of course, that they ended up with in XML 
was what the browser people wanted all along.
To say, "I don't need to know the full tagset spec in 
the first instance,
I just want to check if what you've given me - that  all 
the tags match and it's a tree?
I don't care what it says in the tags, but do they match 
up correctly to form a tree structure?
I don't need to have the DTD to tell if it's a tree 
structure, whereas with SGML you did."

Turkish: 
Bazı çok saygın yetkililer, aslında denemek ve 
Temel etiket kümesi teknolojisini sıralayabilir,
XML'in uygun bir SGML alt kümesi olması,
Ve gereksinimlerden birinde gereksinimlerden birinde 
"Brevity en az öneme sahip olmalı" diyor.
Başka bir deyişle: "Kaybetme konusunda muz atma 
tüm bitiş etiketleriniz, dosyalarınızın boyutunu yarıya indirir.
Artık umrumda değil. Ayrıştırmak zorsa, tamam. "
Ve tabii ki, XML ile sonuçlanan şey 
Tarayıcı kullanıcılarının başından beri istediği şey buydu.
Söylemek için, "alanındaki tam etiket kümesini bilmeme gerek yok 
ilk örnek
Sadece bana ne verdiğini kontrol etmek istiyorum - hepsi bu 
Etiketler eşleşiyor ve bir ağaç mı?
Etiketlerde ne yazdığı umrumda değil, ama eşleşiyor mu? 
bir ağaç yapısı oluşturmak için doğru?
Bir ağaç olup olmadığını söylemek için DTD'ye ihtiyacım yok 
Oysa ki SGML ile yaptınız. "

Turkish: 
İşte ordayız. Birkaç bira bira gücü, 
harika değil mi

English: 
So there we are. The power of several pints of beer, 
isn't it wonderful?

English: 
So there we are. The power of several pints of beer, 
isn't it wonderful?
