AMBIKA SINGH: I think the data is really clear,
there is no straight path to becoming an entrepreneur
or becoming successful in the tech industry.
NARRATOR: Retail's big show, the 2018 National
Retail Federation, or the NRF Conference,
is returning to New York City from January
14th to the 16th.
For more than a century, NRF's annual convention
has been an important gathering for industry
leaders.
Microsoft is one of the largest sponsors of
this event, and this year we are looking forward
to having an in-depth conversation around
home and online, front of house, back office,
and connected supply.
For more information about the event, visit
www.nrfbigshow.com.
NARRATOR: You're listening to the Women in
Business and Technology Podcast from Microsoft.
In each episode you will hear from women in
amazing tech and business roles, as well as
male allies who are helping make the industries
more inclusive.
We are diving into programs that promote greater
diversity in the pipeline, and bringing you
tips on how to build a successful career in
a supportive community.
Welcome to Women in Business and Technology.
COLLEEN O'BRIEN: Welcome to episode ten of
Women in Business and Technology.
I'm Colleen O'Brien.
SONIA DARA: And I'm Sonia Dara.
COLLEEN O'BRIEN: We're starting the show in
our community connect segment with a conversation
that I had with Nicole Fawcette and Kathryn
Storm, two awesome members of the Xbox team,
and coordinators of the Women in Gaming community.
SONIA DARA: And then we'll jump into an interview
I had with Ambika Singh, the CEO of the, quote,
"Wardrobe as a service company," Armoire.
COLLEEN O'BRIEN: Finally, we'll wrap things
up in our cutting-edge segment with a discussion
about an article investigating emotional labor,
from issue number one of No Man's Land, a
new publication out of the New York headquartered
women's coworking space, the Wing.
SONIA DARA: Well, I don't know about you,
Collen, but I'm just about ready to head home
for the holidays.
How are these last few weeks of 2017 treating
you?
COLLEEN O'BRIEN: It's definitely a busy time
of year.
Of course you know there are a lot of parties
to plan for, and gifts to buy, on top of already
busy work schedules, trying to wrap up before
the end of the year.
But you and I have awesomely carved out some
time to do a bit of life and career planning
as well.
SONIA DARA: Absolutely.
We're using the Girlboss Workbook by Sophia
Amoruso to guide some of that reflection and
goal-setting.
The book is a self-proclaimed, quote, "interactive
journal for winning at life."
COLLEEN O'BRIEN: I love that.
I've been a fan of Sophia Amoruso since learning
about her unplanned rise to entrepreneurial
success as the founder of the retail clothing
company Nasty Gal.
She had some recent stumbling blocks, including
Nasty Gal's bankruptcy, but I really appreciate
that she's continued to be a public figure,
who talks about navigating those ups and downs
of building a career.
I even went to the inaugural Girlboss rally
in Los Angeles in February to try to really
connect with that community in real life.
SONIA DARA: This Girlboss Workbook is an extension
of the work that Amoruso is doing with her
sophomore company, Girlboss Media, and a DIY
version of her first book, Girlboss.
It's meant to get you thinking about your
strengths, your weaknesses, role models, and
the reputation that you really want to build.
COLLEEN O'BRIEN: The workbook is a little
bit scattered, it's kind of all over the place.
SONIA DARA: Totally.
COLLEEN O'BRIEN: It has these prompts that
will get you thinking about career building,
but also romantic relationships, political
activism, and even the strategy behind buying
vintage clothing, which of course kicked off
Sophia Amoruso's initial company, Nasty Gal.
But if you're headed into the new year looking
for a new direction, this book will definitely
help you diverge before you decide on a definite
path.
SONIA DARA: So a few of my favorite parts
of the book include a section where you can
jot down the books you want to read, or another
prompt was five things you want to learn to
do.
The pages really encourage you to write directly
on them.
And articulating the things that I want to
do, and documenting them in this way definitely
helps me stay a little bit more accountable,
which I liked.
COLLEEN O'BRIEN: To find the closest independent
bookstore selling The Girlboss Workbook, head
to IndieBound.org.
You can find more great girlboss editorial
content, including a killer podcast, and information
about their upcoming events at Girlboss.com.
NARRATOR: Community Connect: Get involved
and stay connected.
COLLEEN O'BRIEN: I'm joined in the studio
today by Xbox Senior Product Marketing Manager,
Nicole Fawcette, and Xbox Interaction Designer
Kathryn Storm.
Welcome to the studio.
NICOLE FAWCETTE: Thanks.
Thanks for having us.
KATHRYN STORM: Thanks for having us.
COLLEEN O'BRIEN: Nicole, can you start off
by telling me what is Women in Gaming?
NICOLE FAWCETTE: Women in Gaming is a team
here at Xbox.
We have about 30 volunteers, all women, from
across the organization, from engineering,
finance, biz dev, marketing, PR, you name
it.
And really we're an organization that is working
to empower women across the games' industry
by growing the games industry, attracting
women here to Xbox, and retaining great leaders
and awesome women that we have already on
the team.
And then also trying to make a difference
out in the community by doing some outreach
to school and colleges and young girls who
might be interested in coming to the game
industry.
COLLEEN O'BRIEN: Excellent.
NICOLE FAWCETTE: Yeah.
COLLEEN O'BRIEN: And it sounds like you've
addressed a few of these, but Kathryn, can
you fill in a little bit who are the audiences
that Women in Gaming serves?
KATHRYN STORM: We're looking at three of those:
women who are working at Microsoft at team
Xbox looking to provide community support
and engagement, women in the larger industry
promoting leadership and cultural change,
and also women and young girls, so inspiring
the new generation of women that are joining
and contributing to the industry.
COLLEEN O'BRIEN: And Nicole, I'd love to hear
why this community is important to you.
I know that the state of gaming has not always
been welcoming to women.
Why do you invest so much of your time in
building and maintaining this community?
NICOLE FAWCETTE: For me it really is about
connection to others.
For a lot of my career in the gaming industry
I have been kind of that lone woman at the
table, the kind of one woman on a game team
of 40 men, and all the experiences that comes
with that.
I've also been, you know, the one person playing
Halo online with a very female gamertag, and
all that comes with that.
So whether you're a player, streamer, you
work in the industry, being a woman in the
gaming industry is still very unique and comes
with a lot of challenges.
And so connection is really what powers me.
It's meeting other women that are just as
passionate about gaming as I am, that are
passionate about their career, that want to
have a voice, want to have a seat at the table.
And despite a lot of the great changes that
are happening in DNI space here at Xbox --
COLLEEN O'BRIEN: DNI meaning diversity and
inclusion.
NICOLE FAWCETTE: Diversity and inclusiveness,
yeah.
There's still a lot of work that needs to
happen, and we still need to rally together
as a community to champion each other.
And I really believe in the power of women
to uplift each other.
And so that's really what drives me day after
day is bringing the network together, and
really sharing in each other's successes.
COLLEEN O'BRIEN: And how did this organization
come about?
Has one of you been here a little bit longer?
Do you know about the origins?
NICOLE FAWCETTE: Well, both of us have not
been along at Xbox as long as Women in Gaming
have.
It actually started over 20 years ago.
I don't know, Kathryn, I can say we've been
at Microsoft for 20 years quite yet.
But really our main founders have been Shannon
Loftis (ph), who's not a GM of publishing,
Bonnie Ross, who's a CVP at 343 Industries,
and Kiki Wolf Kala (ph), who is also a studio
head at 343 Industries.
And ultimately, Women in Gaming started with
them and a few others -- it's a small group
-- actually as a lunch at E3 one year.
And really what ended up happening is they
went as a collection of women to get together
to talk about the industry and socialize.
And then the next year, each women brought
another friend and another friend and another
friend, and kind of culminated over these,
you know, past 20-plus years, and now we have
this really massive kind of Women in Gaming
larger community that all feel connected to
it, as well as our sort of core group here
at Xbox.
COLLEEN O'BRIEN: And I know that that lunch
at E3 has been a pretty persistent part of
the programming.
Can you describe some of the programming that
Women in Gaming has expanded to coordinate?
KATHRYN STORM: In the last 16 month, we've
held a variety of events, from things like
leadership training to network dinners.
And we've even had a self-defense class.
COLLEEN O'BRIEN: Wow.
KATHRYN STORM: So we're continually listening
to our community to understand their needs,
and how we can best support and connect one
another.
COLLEEN O'BRIEN: And you have a big announcement,
a big event coming up.
Is that right?
NICOLE FAWCETTE: Yeah, we do.
This is about the time every year that we
announce our involvement at the Game Developers
Conference, so GDC.
That little lunch at E3 has really kind of
shifted to Game Developers Conference or GDC.
What we're actually doing is we're taking
that luncheon idea, and we're making it bigger.
We've heard from our community that more people
want to come to women-centered events.
We're in the position to offer that to our
audience.
And so this year, we're actually changing
from a luncheon to a rally, which I'm super
pumped on.
KATHRYN STORM: I love that word, rally.
NICOLE FAWCETTE: I know.
And this is the year to rally around each
other and uplift each other.
This is definitely 2018 is our year.
So we're moving from this two to three-hour
luncheon format that we host at GDC to a full
day of programming, which includes some interactive
panels, discussions.
We'll have a keynote speaker.
And it's really a day to come together with
other women in the industry, connect, be inspired,
and really uplift each other.
And so the 2018 Women in Gaming rally is going
to take place on Tuesday, March 20th, in San
Francisco, at the Contemporary Jewish Museum,
which is just a gorgeous venue right across
from the Moscone Center where most of GDC
takes place.
We're really pumped about it.
COLLEEN O'BRIEN: So if anyone listening is
interested in attending that event or is maybe
looking to partner, what's the best way to
get in touch with you or to find more information?
NICOLE FAWCETTE: Well, if you are listening
from Xbox and you are going to GDC, definitely
reach out to Kathryn and I, and make sure
you get on the list to come.
If you are in the gaming industry or going
to GDC, the cool thing is the rally is open
to everyone.
It's a free event, and all you need to do
is sign up and let us know you're coming.
So we've announced that Tuesday, March 20th,
is the rally.
We'll be opening registration in the New Year,
so stay tuned to that.
COLLEEN O'BRIEN: Is there anything else that
you want to leave our listeners with?
NICOLE FAWCETTE: Definitely follow us on social.
We've got some amazing social posts.
We do Motivation Mondays, Women Crush Wednesdays.
It's a really cool inside look at Xbox and
the gaming industry.
So definitely give us a follow.
We want to hear from you, we want to connect
with you.
KATHRYN STORM: Yeah, and we have some really
great male supporters, too.
And I know that a lot of them are not shy
about like, hey, how do we get involved.
And there is a place for you, too.
So if you support Women in Games, be an ally
for developers, streamers or even your friends,
like we're welcoming to -- we're not like
going to shut you out for wanting to help.
KATHRYN STORM: Absolutely not.
COLLEEN O'BRIEN: Well, thank you both for
making the time to come talk to us today and
sharing more about Women in Gaming.
I'm incredibly excited for your rally, and
I'll be following you on social in the meantime.
KATHRYN STORM: Thank you.
NICOLE FAWCETTE: Yeah, thanks!
COLLEEN O'BRIEN: And now let's get on to the
interview.
SONIA DARA: I'm thrilled to welcome to the
studio the Armoire CEO or Chief Boss Lady,
as she calls herself, Ambika Singh.
Ambika, welcome to the show.
AMBIKA SINGH: Thank you so much.
I'm so excited to be here.
SONIA DARA: So Colleen and I met you a few
months back during the Create and Cultivate
event, which is where we learned about your
company.
But would you mind filling in our listeners
about Armoire?
AMBIKA SINGH: Absolutely.
So Armoire is the dream closet for the power
women.
So wat that means is the closet is infinite,
but it doesn't live in your apartment, it
lives somewhere else.
It's guided by a personal stylist.
So someone will give you recommendations on
what to wear.
And there's no maintenance, because we do
all of the shipping and the dry cleaning.
And because we're here at Microsoft, I can't
help but to make the connection between the
Azure revolution, because this is exactly
how we talked about it in the early days.
I was also a Microsoftie, and so --
SONIA DARA: Nice.
AMBIKA SINGH: -- we talked about taking a
way the bulkiness of the servers, taking away
the heaviness of serving them, and taking
away the need for so much expertise around
it.
And that's exactly what we're trying to do
with your closet.
SONIA DARA: So is it a subscription basis?
How exactly does that work?
AMBIKA SINGH: So the way it works for a consumer
is the basic subscription is four items at
a time that you can swap out whenever you
want.
And that's $149 a month.
The clothes are high-end.
Again like sticking with the idea of like
really making this revolution work for people,
we're carrying things that are super high
quality, they're unique, so they're desirable,
but not necessarily the things that you want
to be cluttering up your apartment with.
And we also have a premium and a less item
subscription, depending on what people want.
We're really trying to meet women where they
are.
If you really fall in love with the clothes,
you can buy them, but we encourage you to
buy less, live more simply.
SONIA DARA: So you have your undergraduate
degree from Dartmouth in History, Economics,
and Microfinance, casual.
But after a few rolls in the tech industry,
you decided to go back to school and get your
MBA from MIT Sloan.
Congratulations, by the way.
Sheryl Sandberg has famously said on Quora
that, quote, "MBAs are not necessary at Facebook,
and I don't believe they are important for
working in the tech industry."
Do you agree with that statement?
And maybe you can explain a little bit more
why you decided to go pursue that degree.
AMBIKA SINGH: I think the data is really clear,
there is no straight path to becoming an entrepreneur
or becoming successful in the tech industry.
They're varied, and people keep trying to
draw strong lines that say like if you do
this, you'll certainly get here, and it hasn't
been something set we've been able to prove
from a data perspective.
So in that way I think it's still a very personal
decision and it works for people, depending
on where you came from and where you're trying
to go.
So I think that I could have started a company
without getting my MBA, for sure.
Would I have started this company?
Likely no.
And that's because there's all sorts of happy
accidents, and sometimes unhappy accidents
that kind of add up on a path to a startup's
inception and life.
And so I think that I ended up here because
of my MBA.
It's not necessarily the only path to starting
a company.
I don't agree or disagree.
SONIA DARA: So you've held a couple marketing
and business development roles at TravelPost,
Rover.com, Aditi Technologies, and, hey, even
Microsoft, like you mentioned.
I was surprised, though, to see that you didn't
have a background in fashion or retail.
So what prompted you to pursue that industry
after graduating with your MBA, and can you
tell us a little bit more about the company's
origin story?
AMBIKA SINGH: Yeah, and this is another great
question where I feel like there isn't a right
answer, there's only a right answer for you.
In business school we talked a lot about,
hey, if you really want to be an operator,
you should be able to run any company, and
as a true manager your interests should be
in building great teams and getting people
to be energized and excited.
And for me coming out of business school particularly
I wanted to find something that I was particularly
passionate about.
The team is what keeps me going and why I'm
there, but working on something that was deeply
interesting to me was motivation and passion
around trying to figure out what it was I
wanted to do.
So that led me to the Bosslady.
We think a lot about the Bosslady.
She is a professional woman, she's busy.
You guys probably know the data; she takes
on way more in the home, she takes on more
at work, and is unfortunately normally less
rewarded in both cases than the other gender.
And so I was really passionate about trying
to figure out how do we talk to this woman.
I like her, I know her, I want to spend my
time thinking about helping her.
So that led us to the Bosslady first.
Secondly, I had worked at Rover, which you
knew, which was on the edge of kind of thinking
about collaborative consumption beyond just
apartments and cars.
And so collaborative consumption was in my
blood, and I liked it.
As a Millennial I'm very much in the "would
love to pay for experiences over ownership."
There's all the data around like instant gratification,
that we seek those kind of like off-the-wall
experiences, and that part and less so on
the ownership model like really stuck with
me.
So that secondly led us to collaborative consumption.
And the fashion part is I think super interesting,
because I liked clothes, and I had way too
many of them.
At that point, I was living in Boston, and
I had literally a full closet at my parents'
house on the East Side, one in Seattle and
one in Boston.
So I like them.
It wasn't my passion space, but I did see
how it was something that brought me joy,
and let me express my individuality.
It also did positive things for my career,
which is something that I think is one of
those things that is a tough pill to swallow
sometimes for me, but clothes are an important
part of women's careers, for better or for
worse.
If you are dressed the part, that means something
very different than what it means for a guy
who can own two pairs of pants and three shirts
and swap them out.
SONIA DARA: It's so true.
AMBIKA SINGH: And if you do that, you can
still do it, but you're making a statement
instead of it being sort of like part of your
professional.
So there was that part of it as well where
I was cognizant of this maybe undue burden
on professional women.
So those three pillars, Bosslady, collaborative
consumption, and this appreciation for fashion
led us to what we're hoping we're solving
with Armoire.
SONIA DARA: Was it a project you mentioned
a little bit at MIT?
That's where Armoire had kind of the birth
of it.
Do you mind sharing a little bit about that?
AMBIKA SINGH: So one of the great things about
business school is you have some time for
all of the other --
SONIA DARA: Really?
AMBIKA SINGH: -- holders of graduate degrees
where I think there can be a lot more sort
of classwork and intensity.
There's a lot of encouragement in business
school to spend time with your classmates,
which can mean time in the classroom and also
time out of the classroom.
And there's a lot of encouragement to work
together.
Most people have come there with some kind
of professional background, and there's an
understanding that you'll develop a professional
relationship in the context of working on
projects.
So I worked on lots of projects.
One of the first ones was trying to figure
out a digital community for older people who
were becoming increasingly isolated.
We worked on something related to that where
it was caretakers, trying to figure out how
to give them services and support.
So they were really --
SONIA DARA: It's a range.
AMBIKA SINGH: Yes, wide range.
And then started to like go down this path.
And actually the way that we really zeroed
in on this was that we interviewed 500 women,
which is another great thing that business
school gives you is that access to other people
who have incredible networks.
So we put a survey out, and we did this both
like from one step removed from like a Survey
Monkey, as well as like in person, and just
talked to people about like, hey, what are
the issues in your life that could be solved,
and like what bothers on you a daily basis.
This issue with the closet with women kept
coming up.
So that led us down this path.
One interesting data point, we asked people
how do they feel when stand in front of their
closet.
And this is mind-blowing to a lot of men but
not to women, the most repeated word was "guilty."
SONIA DARA: Yeah, not surprised.
AMBIKA SINGH: Women are very cognizant of
the fact that there's so much stuff in there,
and feel bad about it, but there's still the
other counter data point is what was your
favorite day in the life of a dress or when
do you remember feeling great, and it's always,
"Oh, tried this and it was new, and it was
exciting."
So the newness counterbalanced with the guilt
of the full closet, these were things that
we really learned through talking to people.
And so from there we started a small project.
Actually a true but hilarious story is that
about five of my full classes worked on Armoire
in different capacities.
SONIA DARA: Nice.
AMBIKA SINGH: So like in finance --
SONIA DARA: Utilizing, yeah.
AMBIKA SINGH: -- in marketing, in operations.
Hopefully, when we're rich and famous, these
guys don't all come back to me.
And even if they do --
SONIA DARA: Teachers are asking for credit,
yeah.
AMBIKA SINGH: -- I'll get something.
So yeah, so tons of support from my classmates,
and I think, I hope that's one of the places
that led us to this rich solution, because
we were able to get so many people involved
at an early stage.
SONIA DARA: In the interview you did with
Ypulse they proclaim Armoire to be the, quote,
"anti-fast fashion Millennial startup," in
direct opposition to inexpensive and trendy
retailers like H&M and Urban Outfitters.
Do you agree with this positioning?
AMBIKA SINGH: I absolutely agree with that
positioning, because what fast fashion has
done is they're trying to solve the same problem
that we are, but the way that they're solving
it is not great for the consumer, the environment,
or the industry.
And they're essentially the only winners in
this paradigm.
And so we're also trying to give women the
opportunity to try trends and the opportunity
for newness.
We know that it's exciting to try that stuff
on.
But we wanted to figure out a more sustainable
way to do that.
And frankly, that's one of the messages that
we see land most strongly in Seattle, which
is no big surprise, but women are extremely
conscious here of the fact that apparel is
the second most polluting industry in the
world, and that's already when fast fashion
is still relatively new.
So you think about if we draw the straight
line out and nothing changes, fast fashion
by the time we're looking ten years out is
really going to be a huge problem.
And so I absolutely agree with that positioning.
SONIA DARA: Who would you consider your competitors
in this space?
AMBIKA SINGH: Ah, so anyone taking share of
wallet from the consumer is a competitor.
And that's actually an interesting thing.
When we were conceptualizing this, a well-known
competitor in this space, Rent the Runway,
has been around for many, many years now.
And we thought we might be coming into the
industry to compete directly with them.
In fact, and I don't know Jen but I think
she would probably agree with me, we are not
fighting a battle head on with any of the
rental companies, we're fighting a battle
against behavior change, that it is valuable
to rent your clothes, and it's valuable to
put the same kind of budget behind that as
you would with clothes that are purchased.
Because something that is surprising I think
to consumers is that it's quite expensive
operationally for us to rent high-end clothes
to you, because there is a real cost behind
it.
And fast fashion is training consumers that
a shirt costs $3.
A shirt never costs $3.
SONIA DARA: Never.
AMBIKA SINGH: Never.
Like the costs are buried in all sorts of
nasty places that if you thought it, you would
not feel good about it.
So if we show you the real cost of operating
this, which includes our fabulous drycleaner
who is a small business as well, Capitol Hill,
family owned, the real cost of the building
that we work in that I know we're going to
talk about, the real cost of our labor, which
we pay living wages and our local all women
from the area, all of that adds up.
So rental is not cheap, it's a way to achieve
what you're looking for with hopefully a budget
that works for you.
SONIA DARA: So funding has been an incredibly
interesting topic that we discuss with entrepreneurs
on our show.
It also seems like a very polarizing topic.
Some founders are not interested in taking
on the debt or the additional oversight, and
then you have others who are only interested
in crowdfunding.
And even more can't fathom building a business
without the additional capital.
What has been your approach to funding?
AMBIKA SINGH: I think it's of course attractive
to imagine that you could bootstrap your business.
And I coming into this, having worked at two
venture backed startups, really thought it
would be great to bootstrap our business.
In actuality, one, our business is not a candidate
for bootstrapping, because of the fact that
we do own all of our inventory, and we are
buying high-end clothes that we have to pay
people for.
So there's a real cap-ex requirement that
doesn't allow us to be a bootstrapped company.
The other thing I didn't anticipate is that
-- and this is a staggering statistic that
we are extremely proud of -- 48 percent of
our investors are women.
Either the woman or the team that invested
in us was led by a woman.
And that is in complete opposition to what
industry standard statistics are.
And those women have been our biggest supporters.
SONIA DARA: That's awesome.
AMBIKA SINGH: So the micro team that actually
is on the ground is our first line of sort
of brand creation and what we're doing.
Our investors are this like happy hug around
us who have been huge supporters.
And so that's something that I didn't anticipate
and I'm super grateful for.
And one of the reasons that I think we've
been able to achieve that is because we're
solving a core problem that resonates with
them.
I think it's very exciting.
SONIA DARA: Did you have people management
skills prior to becoming the CEO of Armoire?
What's your philosophy around people management?
AMBIKA SINGH: If my team was here, they would
be like, does she have any?
(Laughter.)
SONIA DARA: That's awesome.
AMBIKA SINGH: I'm working on it, honestly,
one of those things where everything in a
startup is generally new, you've done a little
bit of it before.
I'd worked on some tech before, I'd worked
on some operations, I'd sold some stuff, but
I hadn't done it to this level, this deep.
And so my philosophy is essentially I am lucky
and proud of the fact that we've hired people
that are incredibly good at what they do,
and I think my job is to hire well, definitely,
and then get out of people's way.
Like let them do what they are best at, support
them if they need it, provide whatever air
cover I can, but I very much try -- and this
is where like it is tough, but I very much
try to get out of people's way.
SONIA DARA: Diversity and inclusion is such
an important topic in the technology world
today, with large companies reporting on demographics
and initiatives year over year.
As a startup CEO how do you ensure that you're
building a team that represents different
experiences and thinking styles, and how do
you maintain a work environment that allows
different individuals to bring their whole
selves to work?
AMBIKA SINGH: On this topic of diversity and
inclusion I think my perspective is shared
by a lot of female CEOs and executives and
people in the workplace.
I include all sorts of diverse perspectives,
not because I feel like it's a charitable
thing to do or it's something that I should
do, I do it because it's an arbitrage opportunity.
If people are somehow not included in the
mainstream because of whatever reason, and
I can give them a place where they feel happy
and they can bring their whole selves to work,
that's just me having an ability to hire people
that other people can't.
So I certainly just look at that as a talent
arbitrage.
It's the same thing I feel like about female
founded businesses that particularly are looking
at the female consumer.
You've heard lots of male investors -- and
investors on both sides say, I invest in businesses
that I'm passionate about or that I understand.
Like if you're not passionate about the female
consumer problem, and you don't understand
it, that means that there's all this greenspace
that I can go out there and solve a problem.
And so I think for people who are looking
at problems that are looking at the female
consumer or the female founded team or the
female entrepreneur, you should look at her
as an arbitrage opportunity.
SONIA DARA: So you mentioned the buzzword
earlier, female CEO.
Does your experience as a CEO have that gendered
lens, and do you identify as a female CEO?
AMBIKA SINGH: I do.
And I think it comes back to what I mentioned
about the arbitrage opportunity.
I think of it as an opportunity that I have,
and it's a tool in my toolbox.
And I will say that that is like an evolution
of my thinking, because if you would have
asked me before starting this company, particularly
having come from tech and an all-male environment,
I would have said, hey, like there's nothing
different about what I do than what my male
coworker does, so I don't understand why this
gendered lens is being like placed upon me.
What I've realized, I think, as a startup
CEO is like you should take any toolbox like
add-in that you can, any kind of like side
path or small road or cut-through or whatever.
And what that means to me is that, one, we
looked at a problem that male CEOs weren't
looking at and didn't understand.
It gave me access to a network of both female
talent.
So we're 90 percent women on our team.
SONIA DARA: That's awesome.
AMBIKA SINGH: And it gave me access to this
investor network that I wouldn't have previously
had access to.
So I think of it as my version of being a
great golfer who like hangs out with other
golfers.
Like would you run away from that?
No.
Like you would embrace it, because it gives
you all of these advantages.
So that's how I think about it.
SONIA DARA: You mentioned kind of those communities.
Any other communities you've invested in to
find support and guidance as a CEO?
AMBIKA SINGH: All of them.
I'm like anyone that I have access to.
Certainly, I'm Indian American.
So I grew up on the East Side, and so I've
got a great Seattle network, which is one
of the reasons that we brought Armoire back
here.
We started it at MIT, but we brought it back
to Seattle.
The Seattle community has been incredibly
receptive to things that are homegrown, both
on the investor and the consumer side.
A lot of our customers are just really excited
that we're a homegrown fashion experience.
Seattle's been amazing, being an Indian American
has been amazing.
That community has grown incredibly in my
lifetime, very much thanks to Microsoft that
we're here, and Boeing.
SONIA DARA: Amazon.
AMBIKA SINGH: Amazon, yeah.
And so a lot of us have found a place here,
and that community has been awesome as well.
SONIA DARA: So you mentioned your decision
to bring it back to the Pacific Northwest.
What should entrepreneurs be thinking about
when it comes to potential destinations for
their headquarters?
AMBIKA SINGH: I think you go somewhere that
is home.
Whatever home means to you, and it might mean
different things, somewhere that you have
some start of a community, because -- and
again like I think this is particularly relevant
if you're raising money and if you need access
to a lot of customers, because both of those
things for us were really effective.
A lot of our management team has lived in
Seattle for a long time.
So we found all of our early customers through
sports teams, through high school networks,
through college networks, through our husbands'
workplace, like all of that stuff.
So going somewhere where you have a community
-- and that's just on the business side.
On the personal side, as I'm sure many of
your guests have said, this is a hard road.
And being able to have personal support around
you so that you can take the Saturday afternoon
off and just like do something with people
who care about you and who know who you are
and all that kind of stuff I think is very
important in keeping the startup alive, both
personally and professionally.
SONIA DARA: What would be your advice to entrepreneurs
who feel that startup is synonymous with Silicon
Valley and where you can kind of get that
concentration of people as well?
Like what would be your advice to them for
that?
AMBIKA SINGH: That's a great question.
SONIA DARA: There's a pressure there, right?
AMBIKA SINGH: There is totally a pressure,
and you'll definitely feel it from fundraising
perspective, because it is actually a fact
that the money that gets doled out in Silicon
Valley is way more likely, especially at an
early stage, to go to a local company.
That said, we are an example of where that
didn't happen.
We got a lot of angel money from Seattle,
and we got a lot of institutional money not
from Seattle.
SONIA DARA: That's great.
AMBIKA SINGH: So it's possible.
And I would say that beyond getting wrapped
up in the Silicon Valley thing, I would look
at the other things that I mentioned about
like finding somewhere that you feel good
both personally and professionally.
It's also very expensive in the Valley.
SONIA DARA: Yes.
AMBIKA SINGH: Watch out for that.
SONIA DARA: Duly noted.
AMBIKA SINGH: Not that Seattle's cheap, unfortunately.
SONIA DARA: So you mentioned home base.
Your office is currently headquartered at
the Riveter, which is a coworking space in
Seattle focused on women and wellness that's
currently expanding to other cities.
Why did you decide to locate your office at
the Riveter, and what are the benefits that
coworking has offered to your organization?
AMBIKA SINGH: We had never considered coworking
before.
We were in a tiny apartment.
And this comes back to why it's good to move
home.
It was like my buddy from high school who
had -- there was a break in the tenants, and
we just got in there and ran the business
out of an apartment.
And the thing that we found was that it was
very isolating.
And this is again like good for consumer companies
to think about.
For us to get out and talk to our customers,
we couldn't really invite them to the apartment
because it's weird that we'd have to go --
SONIA DARA: Can you leave your shoes at the
front door?
AMBIKA SINGH: Right, totally.
This is somebody's bedroom; just ignore that.
So we'd have to get out and meet them, and
it just was like it was a break in the day.
It was somewhat artificial, because then they
know they're coming to give you feedback instead
of it sort of being like part of --
SONIA DARA: Conversation.
AMBIKA SINGH: Yep.
So being somewhere where you can see them
on a daily basis is super awesome.
The other thing about being at the Riveter
is that it's incredibly motivating for us,
because we are again like back to we're looking
at the female consumer, we're surrounded by
these investors who are women and advocates
who are women, and they're all the Riveter
has given them a home base.
And so one of the things, and I think this
is like so related to all the questions you
asked about the gender lens and stuff, WeWork
is awesome for dudes, for bro working.
There's dudes everywhere.
And if you're working on a consumer problem
that has to do with dudes, like you should
go there and like be in your customer lab.
But what we are creating, thanks to the Riveter,
is a place where we can do some she-working
--
SONIA DARA: I love that.
AMBIKA SINGH: -- and work on problems that
are particularly relevant.
And I can't tell you the value of having customers
come by, literally all the time, with ideas,
with feedback.
We just see them live in our clothes, so it's
like we can observe them all the time.
It's awesome.
SONIA DARA: So last year, you became a board
member with the Ministry of Supply, a company
that produces radically engineered dress clothes.
In 2015, the Women on Boards report showed
that women held just 19.1 percent of board
directorships here in the United States.
It seems almost silly, given the catalyst
data collected from Fortune 500 companies
between 2005 and 2009, which shows that companies
with the most women directors outperform those
with the least, along with the parameters
of return on sales, equity, and invested capital.
Did improving representation at all influence
your decision to join the board, and what
were your other motivating factors?
AMBIKA SINGH: My main motivating factor is
that the management team at Ministry has been
great friends to us since the beginning.
And I'm super passionate about what they're
doing, and about them as individuals.
And so we've talked a lot about female advocates,
and how great our community of women have
been.
Our community of men have been just as lovely.
I think --
SONIA DARA: Shout out to the boys.
AMBIKA SINGH: Yes, exactly.
These last couple weeks and months have been
rough for the good guys, and there's many
more of them than there are the bad guys.
Ministry from the beginning, Aman has been
a big supporter, but when all we had was a
PowerPoint, he was encouraging.
They came out of MIT as well, so they're a
few years our senior from Sloan.
And so he had a similar background, and just
has always been a bit advocate.
He was the first brand to sign on a partnership
agreement with us.
SONIA DARA: Nice.
AMBIKA SINGH: And I mean, at that stage like
when you -- they didn't need us, we needed
them.
So my main --
SONIA DARA: You have to start somewhere.
AMBIKA SINGH: Yes.
My main motivation was Aman felt like I could
be helpful, and I wanted to do my part to
be helpful, if I can.
That said, one of the reasons Aman felt I
would be helpful is because Ministry launched
a women's line a few years ago.
I'm not getting the exact timeframe right
here, but a few years ago.
And at the time, they had no women on the
board, and no women on the executive team.
So it's tough to be -- and Aman, kudos to
him, was very cognizant of that, and wanted
to fix it.
So in the board meeting I don't represent
the women's voice, I think I represent the
voice of the operator, because I'm the only
operator on the board.
I'm also the earliest stage clearly, so I
have a sense for what is plausible and what
is a pipe dream.
And also I think I bring some of the optimism
of the operator, because to be an operator
you have to be somewhat radically optimistic.
That said, I have a perspective about the
way that the women's line should and could
land, particularly from a marketing perspective.
That's my background.
And so I guess long story short, to your question,
it didn't drive my decision to join the board.
I think it is a value that I bring to the
board that Aman saw in me before asking me
to join.
SONIA DARA: Any advice you have for our listeners
who may be considering an entrepreneurial
venture?
AMBIKA SINGH: So I do have some advice, and
this is particularly for female CEOs or would-be
founding teams, because I think the founding
team -- and I don't know if we covered this,
but I have a big founding team, which I'm
super grateful for.
It's not just about being the CEO.
Like being a founder of a startup, you're
all equally insane.
SONIA DARA: How many founders to you have?
AMBIKA SINGH: We have four.
SONIA DARA: Four?
AMBIKA SINGH: Yeah.
SONIA DARA: That's awesome.
AMBIKA SINGH: And which I'm a huge advocate
of, because there is enough work to go around.
And if you're going to make it, you're going
to make it big, and so there's enough spoils
to go around also.
SONIA DARA: That's great.
AMBIKA SINGH: But to female CEOs I think there's
a lot of talk of the data, which is scary.
You get less money, you get less access.
It's all like less, less, less -- less success.
But my point would be is that you also have
these advantages that you just have to figure
out how to turn into that.
For example, you've got these incredible networks.
You may not even know they exist, but I promise
you if you look deep, they're in there, of
women who want to support you.
And they will understand what you're trying
to build in a different way, where all of
you will be creating this arbitrage that we
talked about that is just simply an advantage
to you that's not available to someone else.
And I think this is our moment, and so I would
encourage you to look beyond just the ways
that things are done, and find those kind
of like aha moments that maybe have been overlooked
because people haven't been focused on this
consumer set.
And don't worry about the bad data, because
it just means that it's our opportunity, and
this is our moment.
SONIA DARA: Ambika, where can our listeners
find you and Armoire online?
AMBIKA SINGH: So you can find us at www.armoire.style.
You can also visit us if you're local anytime
at 12th and Pine at the Riveter.
It's an awesome building, so you should come
by just to see it, but also come by to visit
our stylist.
And give our service a try, because I would
certainly appreciate it.
This is also how we help each other grow.
SONIA DARA: Awesome.
Thanks, Ambika.
AMBIKA SINGH: Thanks so much.
NARRATOR: Cutting-edge, our take on stories
in the business and technology world.
COLLEEN O'BRIEN: Sonia, as you know, I have
a lot of interests.
SONIA DARA: That's an understatement.
COLLEEN O'BRIEN: Communities, stories about
entrepreneurship, and supporting women are
among them.
So I was really excited when I heard about
the launch of the Wing just over a year ago.
As you know, it's a coworking space for women,
and a self-proclaimed "home base for women
on their way."
Last year, I just so happened to be in New
York in November for a Women at Microsoft
event, and I was able to visit the Wing's
Flatiron location.
Thank you to my friend and wing-woman Roxanne
for taking me on a tour of that space.
SONIA DARA: I've been fortunate to check out
the space as well a couple of times, and it's
absolutely amazing and beautiful.
And it's also incredibly cool that they do
so much programming in the facility.
Diane Von Furstenberg gave a talk there earlier
this month, and they frequently have panels
of women in different industries to come and
speak to their members.
I keep up via their Instagram, being here
on the West Coast, so definitely a good follow.
And today, we're going to talk about an article
from a publication that is coming out of the
Wing, entitled No Man's Land, the Fall 2017
edition, issue number one, launched November
13th.
COLLEEN O'BRIEN: Obviously, I bought the issue
immediately.
SONIA DARA: Of course.
COLLEEN O'BRIEN: And have been working through
some of the really great content there.
One of my favorite features of this publication
is the inclusion of excerpts written by young
women affiliated with Girls Write Now, W-r-i-t-e
Now, a national literary mentorship program
that pairs young women with established writers
as they're working on their pieces.
There's also an article called Stacking Bread
that I think is particularly relevant to our
audience here.
It features tips on money management from
Call Your Girlfriend podcaster Aminatou Sow,
Shark Tank Shark Barbara Corcoran, and media
mogul Mona Scott-Young.
SONIA DARA: The feature we wanted to highlight
in No Man's Land is entitled This Women's
Work by Emily Friedlander.
And it covers the point of view that women
are shouldering an invisible burden of emotional
labor in the modern workplace.
The author starts off the piece by defining
how emotional labor impacts her life.
For instance, she relays an experience when
she missed a therapy session, because she
got caught up coaching a friend on career
strategy and responding to a Twitter DM from
a freelancer asking for help.
Here, the definition of emotional labor is
taking the time to attend to the needs of
others before attending to your own, assisting,
comforting, and nurturing people around you.
COLLEEN O'BRIEN: Friedlander's story is about
personal emotional labor, you know this instance
of not being able to make it to a therapy
session on time, but she also references University
of Akron sociologist professor Rebecca J.
Erickson, who explains that there's research
to support that women and men operate under
different emotional rules in the workplace.
Women tend to be rewarded for expressing happiness
and supportiveness at work, whereas men tend
to receive a status bonus when they express
anger or assertiveness.
They also receive a humanized bonus when they
express concern or fear.
So obviously they have this much broader range
of acceptable emotions in the workplace.
The narrower range of acceptable emotions
for women can force us into proxy parenting
roles, characterized by sugar coating, smiling,
or even diminutive body language.
SONIA DARA: One of the most powerful examples
of emotional labor in the feature is from
a friend of Friedlander, who was managing
young writers at a pop culture website at
the time.
To quote, "They're never going to say 80 percent
of this will be convincing a sobbing editorial
assistant that her career is not over because
a reputable reporter made fun of her on Twitter.
You're basically doing maternal babysitting
as work to make money for a company and get
the job done."
COLLEEN O'BRIEN: Erickson, that University
of Akron sociology professor, explains why
this matter.
One of the hidden injuries of emotional labor
is the way it siphons off energy that could
be otherwise spent hitting the sort of work
milestones that are recognized in a boardroom
and rewarded with a promotion or raise.
So keep an eye out, particularly in the workplace,
for emotional labor traps, conversations or
working relationships that require you to
assist, comfort or nurture, instead of doing
your job.
Address your own responsibilities before you
expend your time or resources to help others.
To quote the public speaker and educator,
Eleanor Brown, "Self-care isn't selfish.
You cannot serve from an empty vessel."
SONIA DARA: This was a fun episode to work
on.
I loved hearing from the team behind Women
in Gaming and learning a bit more about the
social science of emotional labor.
COLLEEN O'BRIEN: And of course you had a great
interview with Ambika.
I'm a super-fan of her company now.
Big thank you to Britney, the head of styling
at Armoire, who helped me look and feel great
for last weekend's holiday party.
And of course thank you to everyone who made
this podcast happen.
SONIA DARA: And to our listeners, this is
a reminder to rate, review, and subscribe
to the show.
If you think a friend might enjoy this content,
please let that person know.
As always, you can find us on Apple Podcasts,
Google Play, Spotify, or wherever you listen
to podcasts.
If you have any feedback or questions, please
e-mail us at WIBT@Microsoft.com, or tweet
us at Microsoft Women.
COLLEEN O'BRIEN: And finally, your mission,
if you choose to accept it, is to do some
of your holiday shopping at a local minority
or women-owned business.
The marketer in me wishes there were a simple
call to action here, but frankly this is going
to take a little bit of searching.
I had the best luck when pairing the search
term "MWBE," and acronym for Minority or Women
Business Enterprise, with "city and state
name."
Look for a dot-gov search result, and narrow
your directory search to see the minority
or woman-owned businesses that your location
and shopping list needs.
Vote with your dollars and happy shopping,
and -- happy holidays [in unison].
SONIA DARA: Happy Holidays [in unison].
END
