I also personally am impressed by how
many people show profound interest in the CERN. I have
seen papers 300 to 400 pages long.
It's a wonderful endeavour in principle. It's also nice
to see so many people that are suddenly interested in
this kind of science.
Right.I mean they start learning, they start reading books,
they start discussing.
Yes. It's suddenly so that every young person can become a
specialist in danger theory. In this particular area. So
it turns out that science is again something that anyone
can lay his or her hands on.
I agree. This is an interesting point. I have a daughter
who just has turned 11 years and she loves experiments.
And I think when I remember when I was a child I
loved experiments.
It's wonderfully nice activities of human beings. It's not
war (laughter). It's not making money. It's just something
that helps everyone know more on the planet. The essence of
science.
The CERN is now turned on again.
I'm afraid it will be turned on next week, actually.
They said last week but then tomorrow but now yesterday but
maybe next week might it be really turned on. And I think
the plan is to stay with it, make no winter breaks. Just go
on for 18-24 months. That's what I read.
And maybe they will even reach the maximum energy this month
already which is a reason of great worry.
This is half of the total energy which is planned.
Right. It is not 14 - which will be the maximum in 2 years time
but it's already 7 Tera electron volts. It would already be
something like 4 times more than has ever been
achieved in the past.
And my understanding is they don't go to full energy just
because they have design problems. It has been written in many
articles that they need to make changes in their design to be
able to go to the...
...14 TeV goal. Yes.
But it is not because of the CERN critic’s movement or because
they think themselves we should go slow.
No, I agree. It's a reasonable decision because the machines
are too old and have proven to be less reliable than they thought.
The CERN LHC will be turned on again next week and they want to
stay at this high energy level for up to 2 years without a break.
That is what I think they say right now.
I don't know.
Why this haste? Why so quick? What do you think?
Maybe the fact that interviews like this are taking place is one
of the reasons. They are so much in the defense, they are
trying to create - it is called in French 'Un fait accompli'.
To accomplish some thing which is no longer reversible, which
cannot be turned back again. Of course once the criticism turns
out to be right, it's no longer possible to avoid what they
want to do.
Yes. That would mean that your theory, the publicity that the
critics movement in general has gained ...
... might be the reason for an accident for example. Yes.
... has created a certain awakening.
Yes, this also, yes. But if it comes too late of course it
would in the End have a negative effect rather than a positive effect.
Yes, because we are basically pushing them. we are indirectly
pushing them, because they say 'Oh my God. We don't act now we
may get hindered!'.
Yes. So the real director of CERN would be me at the moment and I
would be responsible for 'him' making the mistake (laughter). 
How sad it is - I did not think of that before.
There is a lot of praise in the media on the CERN. I mean most of
the media. For example, the Spanish press calls the CERN 
'La maquina de dios'. The machine of God. The God Machine
or the Gods machine.
And the Internet is of course a fruit of CERN's. The internet is
a blessing. CERN gave the World a beautiful present. Yes.
Yes. Well you can see it both ways. In a way the father of the
internet, the mother of the internet, is CERN and this gives them
some leeway but on the other side the internet is also what has made
the critics movement possible.
That's so, yes. But that’s only fair. I mean, certain people might
be disappointed by this fact.
As a non-scientist I have difficulty understanding exactly what for
we need this. That is maybe a little bit a special point. But you
know, the CERN says 'We want to find the Higgs particle', 
'We want to find the God particle', we want to do this and that.
I'm personally, I'm fine if I have a good bottle of wine and some
nice cheese with me and a nice evening with my family, go hiking
in the mountains. I don't need to find the God particle. What does
humankind need this for?
It's this secret or miracle of science. Unfortunately it has this
military side to it. It has these 2 sides. One is medicine - 
the other is military. And any so called basic research is important
for both sides. And the atom bomb, atomic bomb, proves that something
is wrong with the whole principle of unhibited fundamental research.
Unhibited fundamental research. Nonetheless I would not be a critic
of it, basically, as soon as there is no reason to be concerned.
That one can hope that the fruits will be worth it.
Yes. If my daughter likes to do an experiment, I'm also not against it.
As long as she does not destroy the World with it.
And especially medicine proves that it is possible to have this
collective effort for progress. Real progress. And it is only the
bomb which kind of - how should I say - has reduced this hope in
science. And it's a great pity. And now there is a danger here that
not enough caution is being used. That is all I'm calling for.
I want to be disproved with my proof that there is a danger here.
And not to disprove is being uncautious. And uncautiousness cannot
be justified in retrospect. Why not be kind and why use violence
by preventing a question from being answered before it is too late.
There is nothing that can be said against that.
That is true. I have read quite a few times that people think that
you and in general the CERN critics movement...
