“Real Voice” by Thistle Pettersen:
But through the hallways of academia
And on the face of the moon
The footprints of conquest
Haven’t left us any room
To say what we think, or
To speak what we know
To hear different voices
At least a sound from below.
Chante HOLSEY: Greetings and welcome to the
third edition of
Women’s Liberation Radio  News.
WLRN produces a monthly radio broadcast, to
break the sound barrier women are blocked
by under the status quo rule of men.
This blocking of women’s discourse and ideas
we see in all sectors of society, be they
conservative, liberal, mainstream, progressive,
or radical.
The thread that runs through all of American
politics and ties it all together is male
dominance and entitlement in all spheres.
My name is Chante Holsey, and I sit on the
board of Directors of WoLF,
Women’s Liberation Front.
Today’s program focuses on trans politics
and youth culture.
We will hear from Sarah Barr Fraas, a college
student who was told by her professor she
had to take her women’s studies course at
home and not attend lectures due to “transphobia”.
At the end of the program, we will explore the terms and narratives used
to describe both trans and feminist politics in an interview with Catina Hyman,
IT Analyst from San Diego, California.
Thistle PETTERSEN: And hi, I’m Thistle Pettersen,
based out of Madison, Wisconsin.
I wanted to give a shout out of appreciation
to Selene Michaels for the WLRN logo design
that you can now see on the WLRN Facebook
page, Twitter account, and also the WLRN website.
Thank you Selene–it’s beautiful, we love
it.
We hope to make coffee mugs and t-shirts with
your logo design in the future.
Tasha ROSE: And hi I’m Tasha Rose, sitting
in for Elizabeth McKeown this month.
I have a master’s in English Literature
from St. Catherine University, and I’m the
director of “Our Dancing Daughters”, a
teen girl mentoring program in St. Paul, Minnesota.
I’m also the mother of six beautiful children,
and live a radical life in St. Paul
in a family of eight.
Here are today’s headlines and news for
July 7th, 2016.
- ... bodily privacy and dignity, including trans people--
- Transwomen are women!
- 100 transwomen were murdered this year because of the hate that you promote!
- 1600 women were murdered last year!
Where are your voices about the 1600 women who were murdered last year?
- I was sexually abused, and my abuser liked to stand there and watch me in the shower and laugh.
- I was sexually assaulted too, stop scapegoating transwomen!
- 1 in 4 children are sexually abused.
- I was sexually abused as well!
- 1 in 5 transwomen as well--
- And what you are doing with this rhetoric is the same message that many girls and women are given all our lives.
"If you do not give me what I want, you are hateful."
ROSE: A historic press conference called “Women
Speak Out” took place in Tacoma, Washington
on the University of Washington’s campus
on June 16th.
The speakers that included Miriam Ben-shalom,
Maya Dillard Smith, and Blair Tindall faced
the insults and threats of an unruly audience,
as the women tried to engage in civil discussion.
In Minnesota last week, President Obama honored
the Minnesota Lynx
for the third time in five years.
The new NBA champions finished their undefeated
season after edging out
the Los Angeles Sparks, 72 to 69.
In other sports news, legendary University
of Tennessee women’s volunteer basketball
coach Pat Summitt died early morning June
28th at the age of 64.
In Pakistan, clerics have legalized transgender
marriage.
The law grants transgender people full marriage,
inheritance,
and funeral rights under Islamic law.
Gay marriage in Pakistan, however, remains
illegal with life imprisonment.
Amnesty International last week voted in Dublin
to decriminalize sex work to the anger of
many women’s rights groups the world over.
The Supreme Court of the United States made
a large move last week when they banned domestic
abusers from owning firearms in a 6 – 2
decision.
Those committing reckless domestic violence
and abuse
face misdemeanor charges and now ownership restrictions.
Another Supreme Court ruling has angered many
anti-choice voices in Texas, as they reaffirmed
and strengthened constitutional protections
for abortion rights.
In a 5 – 3 decision, they struck down parts
of a restrictive Texas law that would’ve
significantly reduced the number of abortion
providers in the state.
And finally, a story that leads us into the
topic of today’s podcast.
Trans politics has taken a hold in youth culture
across America and throughout the world.
What does this mean for today’s youth growing
up in a society that embraces and even creates
legal protections for gender identity, overriding
the protections
for girls and women based on sex?
WLRN set out to explore the impact of genderist
culture on youth, who are speaking in favor
of it, and also those who are speaking out
against it.
We did a simple YouTube search, with the key
words “young trans” and hundreds of videos
came up featuring young people talking about
their hair styles, their clothing choices,
and their desire to be loved and accepted
as trans.
One young woman tells the BBC that she was
“always attracted to girls” even before
she became trans, but that she always knew
she was a straight male.
What is this sort of identity politics doing
to today’s youth?
Is it beneficial to girls and woman, especially
lesbians, for more and more
to identify as straight males?
When enough young girls identify as transmen,
what sort of long-term impact
will that have on lesbian culture?
We turned to two lesbian youth speaking out
about trans politics,
and what it is doing to their generation.
Max Robinson is a 20 year old lesbian who
used to be a transman until she started noticing
that trans ideology serves the interests of
males and is heteronormative.
She writes on the Fourth Wave Now blog, “We
genuinely believe some off-the-wall garbage
like that its wrong and evil not to be attracted
to penises because of ‘internalized cissexism’.
We have been successfully brainwashed to serve
males at the expense
of our own health and sanity.”
Sarah Barr Fraas is another young lesbian
who is speaking out
against the misogyny inherent in trans politics.
Later on in today’s program, you will hear
excerpts from a phone interview Thistle Pettersen
did with Ms. Fraas about her story of coming
to terms with trans politics and youth culture.
“Just Cells” by Ali Bee:
We’re all just cells when you get down to
the heart of it
If you break it down from the end right
through the start of it
We’re all just one big cluster, you’d
best believe it buster
Yes, we’re all just cells.
Your penis is just cells, your brain is just
cells too
So it doesn’t really matter what you call
yourself or do
You can call yourself a lady, though you’ve
still got a dick
You know it’s all just cells, so it can
be your lady stick
And we’re all just cells when you get down
to the heart of it
If you break it down from the end right through
the start of it
We’re all just one big cluster, you’d
best believe it buster
Yes, we’re all just cells.
And if you’ve got two working legs and you’d
rather they not work
They’re just cells, just call them broken
and deny that you’re a jerk
Just tell ‘em you’ll rape and kill ‘em
if women disagree
Cos there’s a competition, you will be the
best lady
Because we’re all just cells when you get
down to the heart of it
If you break it down from the end right through
the start of it
We’re all just one big cluster, you’d
best believe it buster
Yes, we’re all just cells.
So wave your penis proudly, call it positively
female
You’re a proper modern woman, you’re a
lady not a she-male
Put your high-heeled shoes on, cos that’s
what ladies do
And tell your brother Brian he can be a lady
too
Because we’re all just cells when you get
down to the heart of it
If you break it down from the end right through
the start of it
We’re all just one big cluster, you’d
best believe it buster
Yes, we’re all just cells.
And if you’re feeling sad because your period
won’t come
Just buy a super tampon and shove it up your
bum
And if you need to change it or need to do
a poo
Don’t forget to check which door takes you
to the lady’s loo
Because we’re all just cells when you get
down to the heart of it
If you break it down from the end right through
the start of it
We’re all just one big cluster, you’d
best believe it buster
Yes, we’re all just cells.
I was born this way, it’s biological
I’ve got a lady brain, you see, and so it’s
logical
That I should be in charge of setting women
free
And by women, I don’t mean women, I mean
ladies just like me
Because we’re all just cells when you get
down to the heart of it
If you break it down from the end right through
the start of it
We’re all just one big cluster, you’d
best believe it buster
Yes, we’re all just cells.
And you can call yourself a sister
And deny that you’re a mister
Yes, it’s all just cells
You know it’s really not surprising
They’re so good at menstrualizing
Cos it’s all just cells
Apparently, it’s all just cells.
HOLSEY: And that was Ali Bee of alibeemusic.com
and her song “Just Cells”.
We will now hear an excerpt of the interview
Thistle Pettersen did with Sarah Barr Fraas,
a college student who lives on the west coast
with her girlfriend and her cat Rocks.
Sarah spent a lot of time during her first
couple of years in college advocating for
the admission of men to her women’s college
Smith, under grounds
that they identified as women.
Since hitting peak trans during her junior
year, she has worked extensively on developing
a healthy skepticism for political ideologies
and on creating real sisterhood
with actual women.
She hopes to pursue a career in law, particularly
focusing on sex discrimination.
The excerpt begins with Sarah telling the
story of how she was told by her professor
that the only way she could stay in the women’s
studies course she was enrolled in was to
take it at home “and not be in the classroom
with the students who felt unsafe in her presence
--the "transwomen”.
Students complained to the professor of feeling
unsafe because Sarah raised her hand on the
second day of class and made reference to
how the uterus
is a key importance to female experience.
The full length extended interview can be
found on WLRN’s website
under the “Interview” tab.
Sarah Barr FRAAS: Quickly what happened to
me was that I signed up for a class that was
based around a book by Sylvia Federici called
Caliban and the Witch and it’s a historical,
critical, Marxist look at the witch hunts
of women in Europe.
So we’re going through this book and I’m
really liking the class.
We get to about the second day and someone
points out that Federici does not include
transwomen in this analysis and that Federici
refers to the female body, and that Federici
says that uteruses are a female organ.
And they’re very upset about this.
And I raised my hand and say–because we’re
all going through our paper topics so this
person is going to be writing about how awful
the book is and how exclusive it is.
And I raised my hand and I said, “Well,
maybe I can write about why the uterus is
important to female experience.”
And so, I get an email that day from my professor
saying—and the subject is “A spot of drama”—that
kind of tells you where her, you know, that
it’s all about people’s feelings and not
necessarily about a classroom learning environment.
So, she says basically people are really upset
with what you said in class today—I can
forward you this email too, it’s kind of
too crazy to believe, but she eventually tells
me: Look, the transwomen in this class feel
unsafe when you question gender identity and
she said to me—I’ll never forget—the
idea that transwomen are women
is not up for debate.
PETTERSEN: Right. 
FRAAS: And this is the senior
womens’ studies
professor at my university.
And in many ways, I guess I wasn’t surprised
because she’s a queer studies Foucault scholar.
But I guess I was surprised that it was stated
so blatantly, that I couldn’t
debate or question that idea. 
PETTERSEN: And in writing.
FRAAS: Yes, in writing.
And so eventually she just asked me to take
the class from home because she said that
if I couldn’t, basically, shut up—not
that she said it that way—but if I couldn’t
stop questioning gender identity stuff, even
though our book was supposed to be about female
experience, if I couldn’t, you know, basically
stop doing that,
then I should just take it from home.
So, I paid the regular fee to not go to any
lectures, or any discussions,
and to just send in my papers.
And at the end of the class, we had to write
a political manifesto, and so I wrote a manifesto
about how this, this felt very sexist and
I got credit for that!
But it was really frustrating to not be able
to take the class
because I was so interested in the course.
And I was willing to sit there and have them
think badly of me, I’ve gotten more of a
thick skin so I was willing to do that, but
it was shocking that I was asked to leave,
I guess, yeah.
So my biggest advice to women my age is besides,
you know, before you get in any type of group,
investigate for yourself, question it, don’t
let men no matter what they identify as
tell you what to think.
Don’t let anyone tell you what to think.
But also, I would say, just some other advice,
is that, is to get offline as much as possible.
Talk to people who you disagree with as much
as possible and to form sisterhood as much
as possible, especially with women who you
might not, from the outset agree with on politics.
I found that a lot of my growth as a person
and some of my best friendships are really
with women who, you know, at first I thought
were TERFS!
*Laughs* And things like that.
So I was really encouraged, you know, use
the internet to make groups and then go meet
in person, and then go do real activism.
Don’t get stuck in these insular, safe space
types of liberal communities.
I think in general feminist activism, you
know, needs to be kind of freed
from all of that.
So yeah, I guess just for women to stay strong
and to realize that, you know, you know your
truth, you know you’re not a horrible bigot.
And to just have the, even though it’s so
hard the way we’re raised, to just have
the confidence to assert your own beliefs
and debate them and be open to new ideas because
I think that’s what being in college should
be about.
And I do think I, you know, wasted a lot of
time trying to press my ideology onto others
even though I thought it was, like, for the
greater good instead of listening to all the,
you know, amazing women with different opinions
and all of that.
So, I guess for me it’s really about having
the guts to speak your truth,
but also to be open to new ideas.
That’s really crucial.
And I think that’s very undervalued right
now in campus activism in general.
PETTERSEN: Thank you Sarah Barr Fraas for
a wonderful conversation.
What grade did you get in that class that
you had to take off campus?
FRAAS: I got a great grade.
I think in some ways they might have been
trying to cover themselves— 
PETTERSEN: Their back.
FRAAS: Because I think they knew that if I,
you know, failed this, I mean I think—
 PETTERSEN: Right.
FRAAS: By the college policy, I should have
failed for not going to the lectures, right? 
PETTERSEN: Right.
FRAAS: But I got a good grade, so— 
PETTERSEN: But they gave you a—
FRAAS: I’m definitely uncomfortable with
that and I’ve been talking to the administration
at the school about all of this, about all
of the TERF hunt stuff, and letting them know
that that was unacceptable.
And hopefully some change will happen.
PETTERSEN: And you’ve got a small group
of women who you’re working with, you said
I think—
FRAAS: Yeah, six of us more every day.
"Real Voice" by Thistle Pettersen: 
So speak out, speak over, speak under
Speak through the noise
Speak loud so I can hear you
I wanna know you, I wanna hear your real voice
I wanna hear your real voice, your real voice
PETTERSEN: To conclude today’s program focused
on trans politics and youth in our society,
we have WLRN’s Chante Holsey interviewing
Catina Hyman, Boston University graduate and
IT analyst living and working in San Diego,
California.
Catina is African-American lesbian and the
mother of a teenage son facing the shifts
and struggles in our society regarding gender
ideology.
Chante began the interview by asking her to
tell WLRN listeners why she would like to
speak about trans politics and youth.
Catina HYMAN: I was born and raised in Philly,
to tell you a little bit about myself.
I moved out to California in the mid-90’s
after joining the military.
I met the love of my life out here.
I got married and went on to pursue my B.A.
in broad studies and my M.A. in IT.
I wanted to speak about trans politics related
to transitioning of kids because it’s really
heavily in the media today, and I think these
kids are being affected by what they see,
a lot of the messaging that’s going out
there.
I also wanted to try to give a little human
perspective about how these issues affect
women like me.
I mean, I’ve seen data suggesting that a
lion share of kids who express gender confusion
in their younger years don’t continue to
have these feelings past adolescence.
Plus, a lot of kids that don’t persist in
their gender dysphoria later come to realize
that they are in fact homosexual or bisexual.
The problem I have is that instead of encouraging
questioning kids to take a more conservative
latency approach, kids and their parents are
being told by trans advocates, doctors, and
even politicians that they have to identify
with a gender role as soon as possible or
else there could be harm.
And thinking back to myself growing up in
the 80’s and 90’s, I guess you could’ve
considered me your typical tomboy.
As a young girl, sex roles and their rules
were pretty oppressive.
I don’t really think I was a woman in thinking,
but coming to terms with my lesbianism as
I came into young adulthood pretty much meant
a rejection of most of society’s assumptions
and expectations, specifically those related
to gender and sex roles.
So for me as a young woman, gender roles and
those who enforced them were just overseers,
setting the standards of how as I as a woman
should behave, who I should be attracted to,
how I should dress, even what time I should
be in at night.
So I and many other young lesbian women of
my era rejected them.
Things seem different today.
I’m pretty sure if I was growing up in today’s
social and political climate, I would’ve
been convinced that I must be trans too, which
couldn’t be further from my truth.
As a lesbian and as a black woman, I’ll
probably never conform
to society’s gender roles or expectations.
So I’m here to advocate for a world where
gender plays no part in our lives.
For me, society’s ideals about gender and
their roles have always been something to
be critical of and not embrace.
It’s been great to connect with other women
like you, Chante, and the women of WLRN who
share this perspective.
HOLSEY: Oh, great.
Thank you and it’s an honor to work with
other women as well.
It’s just so good that we can just kind
of get together and share our stories.
HYMAN: Yeah.
HOLSEY: How do we shift the narrative so that
girls and women are not attacked
by trans activism advocates?
HYMAN: Hm, that’s a good one.
I think radical feminists get a really bad
rap.
When we speak on a lot of issues, we get villainized
as “man-haters”
or shamed as “out of touch” or “uptight.”
But let’s be honest, most of that criticism,
whether it’s from the left or the right,
is just misogyny.
The unintended side effect of this is that
people get the impression that we’re somehow
“male rights” and unworthy of defense.
We’re not invincible and we do have emotional
and physical vulnerabilities.
I’m of the view that we shouldn’t shy
away from exposing those vulnerabilities at times,
in order to not only connect with each
other but to make a more nuanced argument
as to how these systems of gender have a very
real negative impact on our lives.
HOLSEY: Next question.
What is “peak trans” and how did you reach
it?
HYMAN: I’d say I hit peak trans when I began
to see how the gender identity craze was starting
to hurt kids, including my own.
I think the moment was actually one day after
telling a gay male friend that my son was
sweet and caring and didn’t really get into
the hookup culture, so that opened him up
to bullying at school.
This guy turns to me and says my son is probably
trans.
I kid you not.
Just based on that little bit of information.
I thought that was the silliest thing I’d
ever heard, and that’s kind of the moment
when I realized that this ideology was not just
harmful to trans-identified kids, but to anyone
who doesn’t live up to society’s silly
expectations of gender.
HOLSEY: Wow, that’s terrible.
It’s not like you can be a strong woman
or a sensitive man.
You have to be some kind of a weird, special
snowflake type of thing.
HYMAN: (laughs) Exactly.
HOLSEY: Wow.
What are some resources online you like to
refer women to to help them grow in their
understanding of gender politics in youth?
HYMAN: I got started reading a lot of radical
lesbian feminist foundational text, specifically
Sheila Jeffreys’ Lesbian Heresy and Gender
Hurts.
It was a good intro to a lot of the perspectives
related to gender identity and lesbianism.
Audre Lorde is also a really good resource
for some intersectional perspective.
I spend a lot of time on social media accounts
like the WLRN Facebook of course.
The website is also a great resource.
Feminist Current on Facebook is a really good
one too, so follow that if you’re not already.
FemalesLikeUs and ActualDykez on Twitter are
go-to resources for me, so I’d recommend
anyone interested in not just lesbian identity
politics but also feminist theory as well
as some of this gender critical stuff we’ve
been talking about today.
I would check out those resources.
HOLSEY: Thank you so much, Catina, for your
time.
Thank you.
HYMAN: Oh, you’re welcome, Chante, it’s
been great.
I look forward to having hopefully many future
conversations with you.
HOLSEY: Alright.
And that concludes our third edition of Women’s
Liberation Radio News for July 7, 2016.
Thank you for tuning in.
If you’d like to get in touch with us to
volunteer or comment, please email wlrnewscontact@gmail.com.
We are looking for other women to join us
and this radio news service, and would love
to see a copy of your resume and references.
Though you need not have experience in radio
to apply, we are all-volunteer run member-powered
radio and are happy to work with you in whatever
level of experience you have in radio journalism.
Thanks again for listening.
I’m Chante Holsey, your co-host.
PETTERSEN: And I am Thistle Pettersen, signing
off from this third edition of WLRN.
Be sure to tune in next time on August 4th.
We’re always interested to hear what you
think, so that email address again is wlrnewscontact@gmail.com.
We’d love to hear from you.
"Gender Hurts" by Thistle Pettersen:
But how will we find our way out of this?
What is the antidote for the patriarchal kiss?
How will we find what needs to be shown?
And then after that
Where is home, tell me
Where is my home?
Cos gender hurts…
