Rob Markman:
What's up, Geniuses?
Welcome back to For the Record.
I'm your host, Rob Markman.
We are still at home, we are still practicing
safe and social distancing, but there's still
things to talk about in music and in culture.
And last week, okay, we saw footage of Doja
Cat reportedly in these...
racist and
alt-right time chat rooms.
That surfaced online.
In addition, a bunch of internet sleuths unearthed old
Doja Cats songs, specifically one from 2015
called "Dindu Nuffin," which people think it's
about her making light of victims of police
brutality. All right?
She's since apologized in a written statement
with her and her team on Instagram and then
she aimed to clarify herself on IG live.
In times like this, I think a lot of things
happen on social media.
Rob Markman:
There's a lot of memes.
I want to separate the facts from the memes
and talk to the people who I really kind of
trust with this topic and where I think at
the end we could have some real understanding
about what's going on and where do we go from
here.
So we've got a great panel.
First up, we have culture writer, Ivie Ani.
She has some of the best, most interesting
and woken takes on social media.
I love reading her writing.
She's written for Teen Vogue and Okayplayer,
and it's her birthday week, and she got the
fly Yankee bucket on.
Ivie, welcome to For the Record again.
Ivie Ani:
Thank you for having me again.
Rob Markman:
No, of course, man, I love it.
Next up we have music writer Kiana Fitzgerald.
You've seen her work in Complex, Vibe, and
Rolling Stone, also no stranger to the show.
Thank you for joining us, Kiana.
Kiana Fitzgerald:
I'm happy to be here.
Rob Markman:
Dope.
It's not your birthday week too, is it?
Kiana Fitzgerald:
No, not till August.
Rob Markman:
Okay, so we'll have you back on in August.
We're going to have a big celebration.
And finally we have HuffPo black voices editor,
Taryn Finley.
You've covered everything from the significance
of black hair, to women in hip hop, and everything
in between.
So I love to read your writing.
I love to have your opinion on the show.
So thank you for joining us.
Taryn Finley:
Thank you for having me.
Rob Markman:
No doubt.
Let's just get into it.
When we first started hearing the news about
Doja Cat, this isn't the first time that she's
been engaged in an online controversy stemming
from problematic behavior.
In 2018, some of her past homophobic tweets
had resurfaced online.
What did you just think when this news just
started popping up, of the Tinychat rooms,
mingling with alt-right and racist users and
Tinychat reportedly, this "Dindu Nuffin"?
Taryn, let's start with you.
What did you first start thinking about when
this news started surfacing?
Taryn Finley:
Initially, I didn't even want to engage.
Honestly, it's too much going on already.
We've had the deaths of Breonna Taylor, George
Floyd, and so many others.
And so I just really didn't even feel like
I had the emotional capacity to even do so
initially.
But when I dove into it, I realized that it
was...
Before we were talking about there were a
lot of memes or a lot of jokes.
There was a lot of rumors and speculations
about what happened and what didn't.
And I think the most disturbing part for me
was the song, Dindu Nuffin, especially because
I know that she recorded it in 2015, she was
19 then, but it feels very much horrible timing
for it to come out right now, just from an
emotional standpoint where black people just
all around don't feel safe, not only because
of the violence that we're facing by the state
and by white supremacy, but also by COVID-19.
Taryn Finley:
We have to deal with this during a pandemic.
So that on top of her allegedly mingling in
these chats with white supremacists.
We know that Tinychat is a breeding ground
for incels.
And we know that she said that she's been
kind of in these chats.
Whether or not she did everything that she
was rumored to be doing is another conversation,
but the two going hand in hand right now,
it just makes her look really funny in the
light.
It honestly is very disappointing for me.
Rob Markman:
Ivie, let's go to you.
What were your first thoughts?
And Taryn, I think you make a dope point about
the timing of this too, but I want to go to
Ivie because there's a lot going on in the
world and though we're discussing this
I have CNN on right now.
It's just like a-
Ivie Ani:
It's a lot.
It's a lot to take in, but I do think that
unfortunately we've been
programmed to deal with more than
one thing at a time.
So I do think people were processing this
Doja Cat news alongside all of this other
news.
And in tandem, it is really disappointing
that a song like that would resurface at a
time like this, that a situation like that
in terms of her engaging with white supremacists
and this whole subset of internet culture,
which I think is really, really important
to talk about, especially because of her age.
Doja Cat is 24, I believe.
So I believe she's in the generation Z category.
So, that's a whole generation of young people
who literally grew up on the internet.
And there's a subculture of the internet in
which these conversations in these chat rooms
take place.
And Doja Cat, for example, has spoken about
how she's been online since she was a child,
she's been in these chat rooms since she was
a teenager, she dropped out of school and
spent all this time in these chat rooms.
Ivie Ani:
And that speaks to how much of her identity
was formed on the internet and in spaces where
it probably didn't benefit her to be in.
And I saw a separate conversation happening
online about how young black kids can sometimes
get sweeped into these spaces unknowingly,
and then they make the decision to leave,
or they don't understand where they are.
So there's a whole other conversation happening
in terms of that, her generation, what the
internet means for a subset of people growing
up during this time.
And that coupled with all of Doja Cat's other
identity, quote, unquote identity issues,
I think people were trying to make sense of
that in terms of her not necessarily relating
to her blackness, in terms of her talking
about being distanced from her father and
her South African side, her black side, in
terms of her talking about her hair and her
skin and all these different things.
Ivie Ani:
There's so many different elements.
But when I first heard it, I didn't process
it as something immediate that I should be
concerned about because of all these other
things.
But I immediately thought about how men in
hip hop have made similar transgressions and
worse, and what has come from that.
And also the timing of, I know people like
to bring up the timing of when someone makes
a successful feat during their career, all
of this negative commentary and all of this
hyper critique is aimed at them, but that
comes with the territory.
Ivie Ani:
If you're in the limelight at a certain period,
all of what you do is in the limelight.
So there's so much for people to pull from.
So she did get a number one.
There's many eyes and ears on her now.
People are doing a little bit more research
on her now.
But I think that also speaks to this issue
in particular with women, especially women in rap.
We take them up and then we take them down
really, really fast.
And there's no grace, there's no grace period.
As quick as we prop them up is as quick as
we take them down.
And that's an issue in itself as well.
Rob Markman:
Right.
No, you've made some amazing points and some
things that I really want to come back to.
One, I look at intent a lot.
And you make a good point.
You make several good points, but you make
a good point about the timing of this and
her success, and then people what they call on
the internet doxxing, when you start going
into somebody's past and digging up stuff.
And it came after she got the number one,
it came after she jokingly promised to show
her boobs if she got the number one.
And then when she got the number one, she
said, “guys, I was just kidding.”
And there was definitely a section of the
internet that felt entitled to see her body,
which was weird.
It came after the Lana Del Ray Instagram posts,
which she was mentioned, and she responded
to.
And then there was kind of a back and forth
with some Barbs.
Rob Markman:
These are all also products of stan culture
and really what you said, the generation who
was raised on the internet.
So was a lot of this stuff when Doja's past
uncovered to get to the conversation and get
to the truth, or was it uncovered to hurt
her?
And I think the intent, the reality is the
reality, and you can't escape that, but you
have to also factor in the intent.
Who uncovered this stuff?
Why did they uncover this stuff?
Why was it positioned?
What was the timing of it?
And how is this conversation being framed?
Also affects how people react to it, I feel
personally.
That was a lot.
Kiana, I want to get to you also and give
you a chance to just kind of unpack what your
initial thoughts was and what your initial
feelings were.
Kiana Fitzgerald:
Yeah.
I mean, these two ladies have already really
touched on a lot of how I felt.
But in general, when things started to kind
of creep out slowly one by one, and I was
keeping up with Twitter and seeing just how
people were reacting to it, my initial thought
was, here we go again.
Like you said before, she's already had a
brush with cancellation, quote unquote.
And it was really just my initial gut feeling
was disappointment.
I wasn't shocked because she unfortunately
has had some issues in the past with how she
expresses herself online, but that still didn't
take away from the fact that there were things
that were hurtful about what was initially
coming out.
And then of course, I started to learn, as
we said before, some of those things are not
true.
Some of those are half-truths.
What is really true at this point?
It's still up in the air.
Kiana Fitzgerald:
It's only been a few days or a week or so.
So I think we're still getting to the bottom
of what is actually the truth.
But for me, it was just tough because I am
someone, I'm from the South, I'm from Texas.
I've had many an issue with white supremacy
here, with issues that involve my identity,
my color, my gender, everything like that.
So to see someone who did ascend to a status
of having a number one, someone who does have
a lot of visibility and a lot of impact on
a lot of young black girls, her making those
kinds of decisions at this point in her career
where she does have a lot of eyes and ears
on her, I just felt like it was really silly.
I know that there was one instance I was pointing
out in which she was in a TinyChat the same
day that she was on an IG live.
Kiana Fitzgerald:
And it was a week prior.
And there's nothing wrong with her engaging
in the spaces that she wants to engage in,
but she does have to be more responsible because
she's incredibly famous at this point.
You can't turn on the radio, you can't go
on Twitter, you can't go on IG without someone
talking about her or seeing her or seeing
a clip of her or something.
So at this point, I just maintain that she
is 24, she is young, but hopefully her team
is helping her to acknowledge that there is
a level of responsibility that comes with
her career at this point.
Rob Markman:
And accountability.
No, I think that's a great point.
And it's so funny how quick and heartbreaking,
even almost, how quick, it was an exciting
conversation when we were talking about four
black women being in contention for the number
one record on Billboard between Doja and Nicki
and their collaboration and Meg the Stallion
and Beyonce and their collaboration.
And they actually both ascended to number
one in different weeks, which was amazing.
And I remember the social chatter being this
excitement, like “yo, we have four black
women in contention.”
Yes, this is what it's been.
And now the charts are actually reflecting
black women's contribution to hip hop and
music and culture overall.
Let's celebrate this.
And how quickly we went from that to down
this hole that we went to.
Rob Markman:
It felt deflating from a cultural level.
Kiana makes a good point about accountability.
She apologized, she said the initial Instagram
post that she did was crafted by her and her
team, but she wanted to get on IG live and
to explain herself and do it in a way that
she's always done, and that felt true and
authentic to her and the fans that came up
with her.
What did we think of the IG live apology,
explanation she came with?
Bullet points, she kind of addressed everything
one by one through her own eyes.
I mean, what did that feel like to you, Ivie.
Ivie Ani:
That to me spoke to how artists, especially
artists of her generation and just artists
in general now, kind of circumvent the press
in that way and tend to use social media or
whatever platforms that they have in a singular
way to speak directly to their audiences,
to communicate directly with their audiences.
And I've seen other public figures do the
same.
They'll have a drafted up PR statement.
And then they'll kind of refute that and then
literally go on live and say whatever they
want to say.
But I think they should also be cognizant
of the fact that them being on Live speaking
directly to their audience does not make that
conversation insulated, and it will be public.
So whatever comfortability that they have
in that space and speaking in that space to
their audience, I'm not sure if they're thinking
about how big that would be and how public
that will be, but it made me think about artists
circumventing press and that conversation.
Ivie Ani:
And also, again, this is how she grew up.
That's how she directly communicates in general,
it seems.
There's a whole generation of people who communicate
via the internet, via social media.
And it seems that she's most comfortable on
the internet.
And I personally think that she's still reckoning
with what comes with fame and celebrity because
celebrity culture in 2020 is different than
celebrity culture in 1980.
You can be famous online and never step foot
outside, and never go to a meet and greet,
never go to do a show, never have to be in
front of an audience.
So I think there's that element of being on
the internet 24/7 and engaging in a way that's
different from the real world that has this
effect on the way artists communicate with
their fans and the way they handle apologies
and the way they handle any transgression
that they make.
Ivie Ani:
So that's what I thought when she went on
Live, and she did seem to tackle a lot of
issues that were coming up.
And she debunked a few things and fact checked
a few things.
But also her apology on live was still critiqued
as well, and people found fault in that as
well.
But it's just very interesting to see all
the vitriol be aimed at her and very interesting
to see someone like Dr. Luke, who worked on
her number one record and who also has rape
and sexual assault allegations, virtually
silent, and the conversation redirected there.
Rob Markman:
Yeah.
And dodges all criticism, it's under a pseudonym,
another name that he's producing under and
most people either don't notice or don't care.
So, no, I think you make a good point.
Taryn, the IG live, what did you take from
it?
Because I'm not going to lie.
My first interaction with her IG live was
the clips that were cut up and then spread
on social media.
And I'm like, "Oh my god.
This is a mess."
Then when I actually watched the whole thing
and sat down and watched it, to me, it wasn't
as bad as the memes made it seem.
It wasn't as bad as the highlights that people
cut out to fit whatever narrative they wanted.
And in a lot of ways, I agree with Ivie is
that, if you've been following her, this is
how she addresses things.
This is how she interacts with her audience.
It didn't seem to me as bad as the memes.
What did you take away from it when you saw
the IG Live.
Taryn Finley:
Yeah.
I'll relate because I did first see the lies
or some of her soundbites broken up.
But when I watched it all the way through,
it was like, “Okay, this is just like a
standard Doja Cat live.”
I watched her on live before.
She usually talks in these like very disjointed...
She has, I guess you could say, a style when
she does these lives, and the apology was
in that style of her going down her, using
her...
Like not even using, but employing her edgy
identity.
That she was trying to...
Not even trying because I think the intention
was there to be real and to be authentic.
She said that she had recorded videos, tried
to do this rehearsed thing initially, but
it didn't feel right.
So let me turn to live.
I think Ivie made a really good point with
that because that's just what is authentic
to her.
Taryn Finley:
Now, as far as what she was saying, I appreciated
the bullet points and her trying to set the
record straight on certain things.
Do I necessarily think that she fully understands
the gravity of a lot of the things that people
are saying that they're hurt by?
No.
I think that there's room right here, and
I do believe that we should be giving her
grace.
I do believe that there is this huge layer
of misogyny that I don't think that we've
really addressed when we talk about Doja Cat
and should she be canceled and all of that.
But she is very young.
From what it seems from the live and just
from knowing her history, she is out of touch
with certain parts of blackness.
Taryn Finley:
It feels very much like she is lost.
It really saddens me that she found solace
specifically.
Because I know a lot of people, like a lot
of us, have found solace being on Twitter
or Instagram or these different online communities,
but it really saddened me that she didn't
go in deeper as far as why she found solace
in these chats.
Because I looked into the chats and watched
some of the videos and some of the aftermath
and they're like, "Oh, well I'm not racist.
This isn't a racist chat."
Well, I don't know many racists that are going
to admit they're racists, to be honest.
Taryn Finley:
I say all that to say about her live.
I think that it was a first step.
I'm not going to say if it's a good first
step or a bad first step.
It was a first step that felt authentic to
her and how we know her brand.
But I do think with her turning off the comments
in the live, I do think with her not necessarily
further engaging now, I don't know if, like
Ivie said, if she's still trying to process
and grapple with everything that's going on
and this side of fame, but I would love to
see an engagement component because I think
that is where you truly start to learn as
an artist, especially if you're cutting off
certain lanes of communication from press
or whatever.
I think that is one way that you learn about
your missteps is really engaging with the
fan base that's been loyal to you.
Rob Markman:
And listening to people.
Talking and listening is the other important
part, figuring out where the hurt came from.
There was some things that I relate to.
Ivie had brought up her being mixed race.
Like I myself am mixed and there are periods
that you experience.
Blackness in America is painful as we see
when we turn on the news anyway.
It's filled with pain.
But also the pain of not knowing or having
or feeling like you have to choose or feeling
like I'm not one, I'm not the other.
And then there's different times and spaces
where I'm comfortable here, but I'm not comfortable
here.
That may be part of it.
Then the other really important part is the
generational thing of...
She's incredibly talented.
Rob Markman:
I think you cannot deny that.
Right?
Then I think her talent coupled with the way
that she is a child of the internet, that
she knows how to use the internet, that she
knows how to position her music and her art
in ways to grab attention and get the mass
amount of people to listen and pay attention.
They all go hand in hand.
So it's almost like...
And then the same thing that makes you laugh
makes you cry.
Well, why does she know how to use the internet
real well?
Because she's in it.
Like deep.
You know what I'm saying?
There's good and bad that can come from that.
Rob Markman:
Vulture wrote a story, and not that I'll go
around quoting Vulture a whole lot, but the
headline was interesting.
The story was actually just a timeline of
what happened and how we got here.
But the headline read, "Doja Cat's controversial
career from overnight star to cancelled overnight."
That headline alone was interesting to me.
We kind of touched on it, and I'll go around
the horn.
Is she canceled?
Is anybody ever truly really canceled?
I feel like we throw that around.
And does that work?
Ivie Ani:
She's clearly not canceled.
She still has a strong fan base.
As soon as she made her apology, even before
she made her apology, there are people coming
to her defense.
There are people wanting to understand the
deeper elements to why she did what she did.
She's not canceled.
Nobody ever gets canceled.
And if people did get canceled, we wouldn't
have all these men who have done heinous things
in the past still making money, still touring,
still succeeding, still on the charts, still
producing number one records.
Nobody gets canceled.
But I think that speaks to the conversation
that I mentioned before about how quickly
we prop people up and how quickly we take
them down and why that's an unhealthy way
to produce stardom, I would say, especially
for women, especially for young women.
Because where is the middle ground?
Where is the middle ground to assess where
you come from and where you are now?
Ivie Ani:
I don't think Doja Cat had a period of assessing
the level of fame that she ascended to.
It's been packaged as she's this overnight
success story, especially when “Mooo!”
came out.
She's not an overnight success story.
She had a whole catalog before “Mooo!”
came out.
She had a strong fan base before “Mooo!”
came out.
She just expanded to a different level of
stardom.
I think people need to recognize how much
of fame right now for musicians is based off
this concept of micro communities.
So someone can have millions of followers
and none of us can know who they are, but
they're still successful within that micro-community.
So someone like her may have been transitioning
from that to kind of national and global stardom
and never processed it because she never had
to leave her laptop or her phone or what have
you.
There's that element.
And she's not canceled.
I'll just say that.
We have this conversation so many times about
cancel culture.
She's not canceled.
Kiana Fitzgerald:
Yeah.
I agree.
I don't think at this point...
It's 2020, we've been talking about cancel
culture for a few years now.
If we really looked at all the people who
were brought up in those conversations, how
many of them were actually canceled?
Aside from the major figures, like a Harvey
Weinstein or an R. Kelly who are actually
facing or in jail or prison.
The people who are canceled quote unquote
have a rough couple of weeks and then their
fans rally and then get right back on the
charts.
So they get right back on IG and they're like
popping off and saying whatever they want
to say.
As Ivie pointed out, there are tons of men
who have done incredibly terrible things and
we still see them on playlists shared by some
of the biggest stars in the world.
We still see them having their chance at opportunities
that people who have been grinding for years
and people who are genuinely good people will
never get a chance to see because they've
been there or because their fans are rabid
or what have you.
Kiana Fitzgerald:
We have a Kanye West who has done and said
a whole bunch of stuff at this point.
For example, I went to his listening session
for ‘Jesus Is King’ last October and people
that I know personally, people that I follow
online, nobody messes with Kanye at this point.
But there were fans upon fans buying merch,
supporting, screaming, doing this, doing that.
People who couldn't be more excited to see
him in person.
They are still there and they're still going
to be there.
Kiana Fitzgerald:
To bring it back to Doja Cat, I watched the
IG live on YouTube.
It was like archived there.
I just scrolled down to the comments, which
I usually don't do, but I was like, "You know
what?
Let me just see what's there."
Literally I read maybe like 50 comments and
every single person was like, "I still stan.
I support her.
She made a mistake.
People are taking this too seriously.
Twitter is a cesspool," which I agree to a
certain extent, but for the most part, people
are still going to be there.
They're still going to support the people
that make their bops, the people that feel
like they connect to whatever, those people
are always going to be around.
Rob Markman:
No, you made great points and especially about
cancel culture and men and I'm of the opinion
of R. Kelly canceled.
But it was also how convenient?
Because he wasn't making hits anymore either.
It made it easier to get him out the paint
or Bill Cosby, obviously...
And not to bring Doja Cat and R. Kelly in
the same conversation, because these were
actual crimes that were tried in court with
actual real victims versus maybe an ideology,
a thought, a song, misplaced thought, misplaced
intent.
Two worlds, different things, but we go...
Cancel only even becomes real when we don't
need you anymore.
Anyway, I just don't know it’s real.
In America, we can still profit off of you.
If you can still make a bop or a song that
we like, 9 out of 10 times, 9.5 out of 10
times, all things will be forgiven eventually
if a hit song comes behind it.
Ivie Ani:
I think that's an interesting point.
Especially because if we look at who Doja
Cat's audience is, I would say she has a large
white audience at this point who may not be
as concerned as we are or as concerned as
some of her fans are, or as concerned as some
of our critics are with this particular subject
matter.
They're neither here nor there.
I think that she may have a connection to
them in this sense of that generation of people
who kind of came to form when blackness was
the default of pop culture.
So anything you see on the internet is a derivative
of blackness or is a black cultural production.
If Doja Cat is biracial and detached from
her black side, she may have very well learned
about blackness through pop culture the same
as these white kids did, if she didn't have
black people around her.
They may have a connection in that way where
they're not going to disown her or cancel
her over this because they may not be that
concerned to begin with.
Rob Markman:
Right.
No, and I feel that, and we see it all the
time.
I think now that we have the numbers to back
up when we talk about hip hop specifically,
but really black music, the most popular ... You
go on Spotify and you'll see how popular a
song is before you even know how it sounds,
or you go on YouTube and you see how many
views.
The data now backs up what we've known all
along about hip hop music, the biggest, most
influential music in the world.
With that comes a lot of fans on the fringe.
They like it because it's what's hot, but
because everything is so revolved around clicks
it becomes democratic, so whoever gets the
most clicks is king.
But who's giving those clicks?
What are their values?
Rob Markman:
You see that with the Tekashi situation, hip
hop is against it.
For the most part, people are pissed and upset,
but somebody is clicking it.
For a lot of people, they don't care.
They don't hold the same values as street
people.
You know what I'm saying?
I think it's a very similar thing of what
you're talking about here.
The value system is different so it's not
as important to you.
Rob Markman:
Taryn, any closing thoughts?
This has been a tremendously ... I love this
discussion, man, because Twitter can be stressful
sometimes.
One thing I just want to say, and I do want
to go to you, is I understand it.
I think some of this, especially on Twitter
and social media, is misplaced.
Obviously we talked about the fan armies.
Rob Markman:
But I think a very important thing also is
people also frustrated and black people in
particular are frustrated, again, because
when you turn on the news and you see Ahmaud
Arbery, you see Breonna Taylor, you see George
Floyd, you see blackness under constant attack
every time you turn on the radio, turn on
the TV.
Man, it gets to you.
Rob Markman:
And then you see some shit like this and it's
like, "Man, fuck out of here."
That outrageous is while we're here I think
to separate, like I said, the fact from the
memes, some of that outrage is real.
Those feelings are real feelings of frustration
based off of everything that's going on in
the world, from my perspective, at least.
But Taryn, I wanted to go to you and just
get your thoughts before we wrap.
Taryn Finley:
Yeah.
I mean, you're absolutely right.
There's so much going on right now.
We are consistently under attack and in an
unsafe place in a regular time period.
But especially during a pandemic, it feels
especially hard for a lot of people on my
timeline, for a lot of my friends.
Taryn Finley:
I'm really hoping that we get to a point where
we do see some kind of light at the end of
the tunnel and that we do see that Doja specifically,
starts to learn and start to understand.
I mean, I saw that she tweeted out petitions
and GoFundMes for some of the victims this week.
I don't think she's canceled.
I don't think she's canceled.
I don't think she should be.
However, I do think that if there are people,
especially black people, who are hurt by what
she said, hurt by what she's done and don't
feel like they can rock with her anymore or
have to give her some time to breathe, I think
that's okay.
That's okay.
Taryn Finley:
But I'm glad that we're having conversations
like these, where we can separate the fact
and make sure that we go into the layers because
not only is cancel culture, a lot of times,
not only is that misused and a lot of people
just don't even understand exactly what it
is, if it comes into play, et cetera.
But I also think that we have room to be mad.
We have room to hold people accountable.
We also should have the grace, our artists,
especially our black women artists, because
I saw some things, talking about “Oh
Doja’s a white woman.”
No, she's not. She's a black woman.
Let's get that straight first and foremost.
Taryn Finley:
Black women artists should have the room in
hip hop to have that grace to, all right,
I messed up.
Now, let me bounce back, let me learn and
let's go at it again.
Because like we said time and time again,
we give it to men.
So yeah, I'm glad we had this conversation.
Rob Markman:
No, I'm glad too.
I'm grateful for you all and shout out to
Rahel who produces the show.
And when we had this conversation about having
the show and who we wanted to have on, it
was very important for us to have voices and
people who kind of represent really getting
to the bottom of the things, really getting
to the heart of the matter, the truths.
Sometimes on these shows, and this show in
particular, sometimes we speak in pull quotes,
the thing that you're going to say that's
going to go viral and it's fun and there's
room for that too.
But we just felt in this time with what's
going on in this topic, there wasn't room
for that, that we just needed the right guests
to have this conversation with who were going
to speak the truth as they saw it.
Rob Markman:
I'm really grateful to have all of you on
and to have this conversation with you.
I hope it helps not only us, but I hope it
helps defense and I hope it helps us go forward
and how we reconcile with these things and
how we go on.
So, I appreciate you all.
Kiana Fitzgerald:
Definitely. Thank you.
Taryn Finley:
Thank you.
Rob Markman:
No doubt.
And y'all welcome back anytime for sure.
And of course to the fans, I appreciate y'all
for watching.
I'm a little afraid to get into the comments
when we post this thing.
I'm going to get into the comments with you
guys.
If we could have some real discussion, anybody
who's watching, get into the comments, let's
have a real discussion and discourse about
it.
I want to hear from a genuine place.
If you trollin,’ we just going to ignore
you anyway.
So you're just wasting your Twitter fingers.
Thank you all for watching For The Record.
See you next week. Peace.
