In my church group in Greenfield, Massachusetts
at the age of about 16 or 17, I had made a
deal with my mom and dad—I was very, very
close to my mom and dad.
I'm a real momma's boy and got along with
them my whole life, hardly even rough periods.
And they went to the Congregationalist church:
The Church of the Covered Dish Supper in Greenfield,
Massachusetts.
Massachusetts is an old enough state that
you could not charter a town without having
a Congregationalist church and this was the
first one in out town.
I mean, from back 200 years ago.
And I made a deal with my mom and dad that
I wouldn't have to go to church services Sunday
morning if I went to youth group Sunday night.
So we had a pastor—that minister at that
church—that was fairly hip, you know, he
was trying to deal with the children, play
a Jim Morrison song once in a while.
Played the Beatles.
Far out!
And he sincerely wanted us to do some inquiry
into theological questions and I took it very
seriously.
I may have been the only in the youth group
that did take it seriously and I read the
Bible cover-to-cover and I think that anyone
who is thinking about maybe being an atheist...
if you read the Bible or the Koran or the
Torah cover-to-cover I believe you will emerge
from that as an atheist.
I mean, you can read "The God Delusion" by
Richard Dawkins, you can read "God Is Not
Great" by Hitchens... but the Bible itself,
will turn you atheist faster than anything.
Question: Why would reading the Bible make
you an atheist?
Penn Jillette: I think because what we get
told about the Bible is a lot of picking and
choosing, when you see, you know, Lot's daughter
gang raped and beaten, and the Lord being
okay with that; when you actually read about
Abraham being willing to kill his son, when
you actually read that; when you read the
insanity of the talking snake; when you read
the hostility towards homosexuals, towards
women, the celebration of slavery; when you
read in context, that "thou shalt not kill"
means only in your own tribe—I mean, there's
no hint that it means humanity in general;
that there's no sense of a shared humanity,
it's all tribal; when you see a God that is
jealous and insecure; when you see that there's
contradictions that show that it was clearly
written hundreds of years after the supposed
fact and full of contradictions.
I think that anybody... you know, it's like
reading The Constitution of the United States
of America.
It's been... it's in English.
You know, you don't need someone to hold your
hand.
Just pick it up and read it.
Just read what the First Amendment says and
then read what the Bible says.
Going back to the source material is always
the best.
When someone is trying to interpret something
for you, they always have an agenda.
So I read the Bible and then I read Bertrand
Russell and I read a lot of other stuff because
in the Greenfield public library the 900's
of the Dewey Decimal System...
I mean, one of the few people that still remembers
it, the 900's are theology.
They're only about this long but that's all
on camera.
Only about this long, the one armed guy who
caught a fish this big.
They're only about this long and so I read
a lot of them.
I started going go to class and, to his credit,
the pastor who was a wonderful man, wonderful
man would let me talk to him about this stuff.
And finally after—I don't know, it's so
long ago—but after months of this platonic
questioning every night at youth group, the
minister called my mom and dad and said, "You
know, I think maybe Penn should stop coming
to youth group, he's no longer learning about
the Bible from me.
He is now converting everyone in the class
to atheism."
So I was asked to leave—very politely, very
nicely—youth group.
And then with the help of Martin Mull, Randy
Newman, Frank Zappa, the idea that these three
men were out-of-the-closet atheists was so
inspiring to me and so important to me.
And reading interviews with somebody...
And I remember being somebody in a religious—and
not a religious community like wack jobs,
but, you know, in a community where most everyone
was Christian—having those people in interviews
say the simple sentence "There is no God"
meant the world to me and gave me joy and
gave me passion and gave me love and gave
me confidence.
And I think the first time I was interviewed,
as presumptuous as this seems—and please
forgive me—I remembered Frank Zappa's interviews.
And I wanted to give a chance for someone
else reading that to not feel they were alone.
Now that's less important now.
I mean, the population of atheists in this
country is going through the roof.
I mean, I'm now on the side that's winning.
It's over 20 percent by some polls and I believe
if you counted atheism as a religion it's
the fastest growing religion in the history
of the United States of America.
So now I'm on the team that's winning which
is an uncomfortable position for me.
But back, you know, 30 years ago, 40 years
ago, it still felt like it meant something,
you know, it's... we're several years behind
gay rights but we're following a much faster
path at acceptance.
