I don't even know if I'm a muted no you
guys we're good here so we realize yeah
oh so we're gonna turn off volumes off
on the YouTube thing if we're watching
back on that and going to zoom hey guys
how you doing thank you for tuning in
welcome back to the long lockdown or
saying these guys I feel increasingly
like a talk-show host
and yeah we doing all kinds of strange
talk-show bits throughout this chat I'm
joined by three amazing writers that I
wanted to bring on today and talk about
the theme of home and what it means to
you maybe literally but also just in
your work what does it mean a lot of us
with kind of complex identities we
always seem to be searching for home and
where do we belong and right now with so
many of us who are lucky enough to have
a home or at home there would be a good
chance to talk about it so we're here
got nikka shook la falta my boot door
and Ruby core and guys I guess I'll just
start off by asking you where is home
for you groupie yes okay home I I feel
like for me the first time I kind of
answered that question I had to talk to
do when they asked me where is home and
at that moment I was kind of moving
around all over the place and I just
couldn't figure out where home was
physically and thought I'm I feel like
I've spoken to you about this I feel
like I don't I'm not connected to a
physical place when it comes to home
maybe because I was born in a different
country
my dad's a refugee I'm an immigrant and
we've moved the ton growing up and now
my work makes me like I'm constantly
moving and living out of a suitcase and
so home has really kind of become
has maybe always been of state of mind
and always trying to make sure my mind
and body are connected and when they're
connected better where I am I feel home
well amazing amazing I want to chat to
you in a bit about how you kind of get
to that place of feeling at home feeling
at home in your own skin layer and
particularly with everything that's
going on right now I'm fired tomorrow
what about you this is a question that
you've been asked is this a question you
asked yourself a lot either in your work
or in your mind yeah it's um it's quite
a bit of what Ruby said I was I was born
in Afghanistan I grew up in Damascus
Syria I'm from Pakistan so I grew up in
Karachi but it wasn't until I was older
that we returned home and so home for me
has always been a very romantic idea
it's a place of longing and a place of
imagination more than being anywhere and
as as a kind of rootless person that
idea of where you are meant to be versus
where you are is something that I've
spent a lot of time thinking about
personally but but also writing about
and I think actually for me home is not
one place home is where people you love
are and those people are always gonna be
scattered and so we live scattered lives
and and we have to imagine things in a
scattered way I love that I also love
the idea that you're just touching on
about this idea that the space the home
occupies for you in your mind and in
your writing isn't the place that you
are or a place that you ever reach it's
a place you're always seeking so I guess
it's that kind of sufi idea of always
you know being the seeker or yourself
being the focus rather than ever getting
there
I said that's that's interesting I'm
gonna come back to that as well in a
minute Nikesh what about you please just
say just for one word answer like how
after that you know it's that manager
it's not where you're from its way right
like
in Bristol you grew up in London and
there's there is this thing about Greek
you know my mom passed away 10 years ago
this year and I often think that grief
often freezes you freezes your
relationship at the point at which we
love you last had a moment of intimacy
together and so I feel like home for me
is London in October 2011 which is when
I moved out and it was like those dying
days that I was I was living there and I
was no I knew I was about to leave but I
was sort of working around this with you
know with those sort of tear-stained
eyes going might take a mental picture
this is gonna be the last time you you
experienced this and then you know every
time I go back to London now it feels
like a place that belongs to other
people now I don't live there so for
home to me is London to 2011 late great
I'm already crying yeah thank you
I mean that's beautiful it's kind of
interesting though in whatever I mean
none of you guys are tying your sense of
home to a place and I and I guess and
particularly like Nikesh and Baltimore
for you home is a place that you can
never get to in the way that you're
defining it you seem to have kind of
made peace with that definition and
actually redefine the whole concept of
home it's somewhere that you're not ever
meant to get to it's somewhere in your
past for Unicare sure it's somewhere
abstract for you for tomorrow and it's
the kind of journey of seeking it that
there is a focus is it that journey of
seeking home that kind of animates your
writing and your fiction because for me
I always feel that home is a place that
we build through fiction home is a place
that we make through our and in some
ways do you feel like that's what you're
doing I mean even you reap you're saying
it's when your mind and body feel in
sync
I've seen the way you perform and the
way you perform the way you recite your
poetry is so physical it feels like your
mind and your body are in sync is his
writing is fiction an act of kind of
trying to create a home and if and if it
is is that a home for you or is it also
for others right I mean I think what's
interesting is you know we were chatting
off-camera
about the fact that we're all desi so
our relationship to time is abstract and
unusual and I think in a way maybe space
- I mean for me fiction fiction is the
place where I where I can put home down
so I mean The Runaways was a novel
really about where one belongs and the
seductions of belonging and where we
feel welcomed and those places might not
be the right places or the safe places
or the places we grew up in there might
be turbulent terrain but but we seek
them out because we want so desperately
to be somewhere and so I think for me as
a writer I don't know if Nikesh and and
Ruby feel this way writing fiction is
the one place where I can have a
one-word answer to your question where
as in life as Nikesh said life you know
the Karachi of 1993 when I moved there
is not the Karachi of 2020 or 19 or it's
not even the Karachi of yesterday it
changes so much I find I find that sort
of people was so creations of home and
how that how they depict home often
often spin me off in two different
directions trying to recreate something
in my own in my own practice you know
and you know segue into the The Long
Goodbye but you know watching the actual
film and watching the first act of the
short film I kind of felt this strange
nostalgia for my childhood I'm you know
in a really visceral way that I hadn't
felt before like you know that the
overlapping conversations the television
constantly on like staff everywhere and
then you move stuff from one room but
you did enough to fit into another room
where there's stuff and I could smell
the like it was it was so visceral and
you know what I've been planning a novel
for the last year I knew exactly what it
was gonna be I had it down to a tee and
I watched I worst The Long Goodbye and I
was like you know what I feel brave
enough to write about about home in a
way that I'm not
I've been sort of running away from in a
real long time and I just i junked this
thing that was ready to work on and just
started waiting something really
naturalistically but in this way that i
just really wanted to capture my that
thing that you'd kind of awoken to me
segue into thank you man wow that's
amazing I'm glad I had that impact it's
weird isn't it it's when we kind of see
those realities reflected it kind of
emboldened us to also kind of speak
about them it kind of emboldened us to
say ok so it does matter that experience
does count it is a valid space to
explore which is which can be kind of
tricky if you don't see yourself
reflected back in the culture right you
often not sure whether anyone cares
about that experience or if it's you
know you should be exploring that or not
um I just want to touch on what you had
something to say a moment ago Ruby right
when we were talking about whether is is
home what you're trying to kind of build
through fiction is that what animates
you is it that journey or is were you
just at peace with with the home
question and it's other things
what role does it play well I think that
I didn't mean to do it this way but in
search of finding home what my identity
meant I think I ended up finding my
voice so when I started performing I was
performing I was lost I was confused I'd
like hit rock bottom it was like a
really bad time in my life I was 17 or
16 and I just didn't have any support
around me in terms of family and friends
and so it was that feeling of walking up
to a microphone I don't know and just
hearing my voice and feeling heard for
the first time that is when I feel most
at home and I so often say that I feel
so at home on the stage and for some
reason over the last couple years I've
felt so separated from my body
maybe because life has just become so
turbulent that I just feel like my mind
and my body are disconnected and I'm
working on that but the moments where I
feel like the two do come together is on
that stage that's when I'm most present
and
I was laughing when Fatima was speaking
earlier because this past summer I was
having a conversation with her because I
was been struggling with the idea of
home so much and I asked her because I
know she also lives between two places
and I always ask her these ridiculous
questions I'm like she has the answers I
know she does and I asked her I was like
so where do you feel more at home is it
London or is it Karachi and she just
looked at me and she's like I always
feel home at the place that I left
behind so you're always longing for the
place you look behind and I just threw
up my hand that I was like damn it all
right fine
which was a s I can relate to that
cuz I feel like she put words to the
experience I was having it was a little
bit sad but it was also comforting so
now I think about that when I'm homesick
and it helps me just feel a little bit
more at ease I love this idea actually
of do you introduce Fatima of home being
a feeling of longing yeah right it's not
something you ever necessarily arrive at
but it's something you're always kind of
seeking either in your past as you said
Nikesh or the place you just left behind
or something you're seeking on stage I
guess that kind of speaks a lot to this
idea of heartbreak isn't it if home is a
kind of heartbreak I mean or a nostalgia
right I mean the longer buy album is
kind of framing this relationship with
Britain relationship with country with
the country that you call home as a
heartbreak and so I guess I'm just
wondering if if hollom is something in
the past if home is something that you
never quite get to is home also that
feeling of heartbreak can you relate to
that feeling that I kind of explore the
long goodbyes of feeling like you're
going through a breakup with your home
with your home country where you know
the place or the people that you grew up
with
because it seems under your definition
for thermite that's that's kind of
standard home is always a heartbreak
where is the
I was trying to flame frame it in the
angle in the album was this idea of okay
this is heartbreaking because I'm being
kicked out of my home or the place that
I call home
well that thought was my own so what's
your take on this father
I just late to the party and it's hot
break what's the deal I think and I
don't know if you feel this way but I I
think that when we talk about love and
the things we love that can't just be
one thing it's not one static thing but
that has within it intense beauty and
intense wonder and amazement and joy but
it has to include heartbreak and and
pain and and for me the notion of home
always did include heartbreak because I
grew up in exile and and so as a young
child I would ask why are we not home
you know I grew up in Syria I thought
for a long time that I was Syrian and my
father was at great pains to remind me
constantly that I wasn't and and every
time he succeeded he would then have to
answer the other question which was well
why can't I be where I'm really supposed
to be you know why can't I be where I
belong and that's going to include some
pain in it and that's going to include
some sadness but I was thinking about
you raised and I I wonder if there is a
moment there is a moment where you felt
your heartbreak with your country
because I think I think there can be
moments where you feel you don't
recognize the place anymore and then I
also think it's mad to expect that a
place should be recognizable at all
times but but it will of course turn on
you and betray you and wound you like
any other living thing might know like
any relationship right it has those kind
of ups and downs but I guess it'll only
be a heartbreak if you care about it if
you do feel some attachment and some
investment to that place I mean how you
guys I mean just answer your question if
there was a particular moment I don't
know if you guys have felt this as well
I'd love to hear if there was a
particular moment for you and you were
like actually we need to kind of discuss
this relationship
you know we need to kind of have have
that conversation for me I think it was
around kind of 2016 with the election of
Trump and also Briggs it I kind of found
myself in rooms sort of you know
probably well-adjusted successful people
different ethnic groups saying I don't
know if I should stay in the u.s. I
don't know if I should stay in the UK
even though I'm born here I'm not sure
if I should have kids here grandkids by
the time it gets to my grandkids will it
still be safe here you know for people
like me who look like me you have my
religion and I thought that was that was
hard breaking first because I never
heard people at all like that secondly
because I really recognized that as I
thought that I had as well and so I
wanted to explore that and explore that
as a kind of Heartbreakers
but I guess what you know into a point
far to my every relationship shifts
every relationship has these ruptures
and every home in every relationship in
some small way will break your heart so
how how do you guys dealt with your home
countries or the places where you're
from kind of breaking your heart have
you had that experience and and how have
you kind of worked through it have you
kind of redefined your sense of identity
from it I feel like well I feel like the
both are true for me like the kind of
experience that you're describing as a
heartbreak rizz and then this how
thought the Mun describes home as well
like both can be true at one time like
I'm saying home as a state of mind but I
also really want to buy a house and like
make it wonderful and feel comfortable
for me and so it's like I'm pursuing and
I'm believing both of those things to be
true and alive at once and so I mean I'm
from I'm in Canada right now and that's
where I was raised and so I feel like
it's a little bit there hasn't been that
breakup moment but I think the moment
that I felt like oh I'm different is
probably post 9/11 because we got a lot
of you know the hey
xenophobia also what came up here my dad
who's a truck driver and he is a turban
bearded man and so to see his
relationship shift with his work and him
coming home and talking about where was
safe to sleep where was not where was
safe to pull over and where was not and
then constantly like before that we
didn't really hear stories about the
violence it was more so just like oh yes
we're here and then there's racism and
then a couple of other things but then
it was just like we were under a
microscope and so I think that was when
I first started to feel like wow we're
really really other and what does that
mean and that I didn't see your sense of
like actually maybe home is a shifting
idea maybe belonging is something I have
to find inside myself through my prefer
eyes to my voice because you go back
home and it's not the you know it's not
the place that your parents described to
you like I went back I moved here when I
was four and then I couldn't go back
home till I was in a trance so I don't
know maybe I'm gonna say 13 years old
and so I was like where the hell are
really hello you spent 13 years telling
me home was like this like this like
that and this is like nothing like how
you described it and it was because my
parents were stuck in the years that
they left and romanticizing that and
holding onto that as a way to just
survive and so we all showed up in like
my dad's village confused as hell and so
I always try to keep that in mind to
just home is totally so romanticized
yeah it's um it's kind of inspiring
actually to hear like you know all you
guys are really successful at what you
do as writers and you build these worlds
and you've got these voices and it's
kind of comforting to hear that for all
of you guys the idea of where all is
completely like it's like well how long
have you got you know what I mean like
where do you want me to start it's it's
somewhere that I kind of deliberately
define as
residing inside myself and it comes and
goes depending on how in my body I feel
or it's somewhere in my past I can never
get back but I can tap into if I really
close my eyes and put on the right tune
and smell the right smells at my heart's
house or it's somewhere that I'm never
supposed to get to and the whole act of
making work is kind of seeking it out
it's kind of amazing because in a way
it's that disconnection from harm or
that searching for home that kind of
seems to be creating and guiding so much
of your work and I would say kind of is
what leads to such amazing work from
people with complex identities or you
know without with a complex answer to
this question um I wanted to ask a
little bit about how you feel your
relationship to belonging or home or has
shifted with this moment with everything
that we're living through right now I
kind of wanted to just touch on his
point like you know over the last few
years as I said kind of particularly
with about 2016 or so I really felt like
I had to
I thought visibility's not enough you
know people have to be vocal as well
about their values in the face of all
this rising intolerance and other Inga's
you put it repeat and so you know I
start off sweatshop boys and we did that
and I just kind of found myself whereas
before I was maybe bite my tongue a
little bit not great deal but a little
bit now I kind of stopped doing that
altogether and um and I kind of felt
like I'm not a believer in tribalism
that's all right I don't believe that
the goal is like my team people who look
like me who have names like me you have
my faith or ever need to end up on top I
just believe in kind of equality and
sometimes you have to kind of get into
the the vehicle of your identity right
in order to help level that playing
field I kind of feel like after Corona
I wonder what role identity politics
will play I kind of wonder if it'll be
even more relevant than ever or whether
it will become less and less relevant to
those of us who want an equal society
because I remember people would say you
know what racism won't end until we have
an
invasion I mean I'd like to believe that
true I don't know if it is we can talk
about that but Corona feels like the
alien invasion right it feels like that
thing that's reminded us all we're just
all human it's a great equalizer no
matter where we come from do you feel
like your work or how you kind of engage
with your identity and stuff my really
shift after this or what do you foresee
around some of the conversations that
that do you know you talk about in your
work kind of evolving after this has it
crossed your mind or yeah I've been
thinking a lot in the last couple of
weeks about who I'm writing for and at
what moment and I think the thing that
the thing of fiction gives me is clarity
and the thing that prose gives me is a
method of interrogation and I think I've
just spent the last week working out
that everything that everything I write
doesn't need to have an audience I don't
need to write to kind of put out into
the world sometimes I can just look
within and that's okay and I've been
thinking a lot more about just sitting
with sitting with my feelings a lot more
and writing stuff just just for me just
to kind of give myself some sort of
clarity in some sort into interrogation
to how I'm doing and that's okay that
doesn't need to see the right day I
think I think there's been so much to
this sort of weird like hostile culture
versus I just want to sit stare into
space culture going on online and it's
okay to do and that's what I've been
thinking about not like it's I'm not
gonna be working on stuff that I'm gonna
what the novel I've always wanted to
write and I'm gonna sell it for millions
and millions of pounds and I can't just
sit with my feelings and that's alright
I haven't felt like that for a long time
yeah what about you guys yeah how you
feel how do you feel your work might
respond to this moment
has it already started doing that or are
you still processing like where's your
head out because I feel that that kind
of yo-yoing as well indication I feel
like you know what I want to stay
connected I want to stay engaged I want
to kind of convene these conversations I
want to start writing
I also kind of feel like man I just want
to like hibernate and curl up and go
what the hell is happening you know and
I do wonder how my work will change from
this I think all of our work will
probably change from this in ways you
probably don't understand but yeah I
don't know how I'd be interested in
hearing how cuz you have to cancel tour
and everything how you're envisioning
that or maybe changing it moving forward
but back to your other question well I
was in the process of I've been in the
process of writing my third book which
the deadline is fast approaching and so
I these months were supposed to be like
the moments where I'm finishing it so I
had all these like elaborate plans of
where what sunny destination am I gonna
go to to finish this thing that's
kicking my ass and the world is so funny
because you know it just ended a full
circle like this is a house that I left
it to start off this journey of mine and
this is like now where I ended back this
is where I end up this is the last place
I wanted to write this book you know
with like my parents off and fighting in
that corner and then a sibling doing
this and the blah blah blah and the
neighbors losing their mind and so it's
just really funny to me and so actually
it's I've been doing a lot of that
yo-yoing - and I'm actually
a little bit
grateful and I'm just sinking into the
irritation and the annoyance and the joy
and all the emotions that come with that
yo-yoing because I don't know I just
realize there's probably never gonna be
another opportunity in my life where the
six of us come together like this ever
again ever and so that's kind of been
the silver lining of it and so I'm still
trying to finish the book it's actually
interesting cuz I'm writing the book the
chapter I'm working on right now is
about loneliness it is about that fear
it's about all the things that I think a
lot of us are feeling so it's easier to
tap into for sure remember one well I
just remember once croupier asked you
like who are you writing for do you have
a clear idea of writing for me remember
we kind of were having a chat this chat
or the dinner once and you were like and
you had I remember you had a very
specific answer to that question and I
just wonder I mean it doesn't have to be
a cons answer that you share it may just
be something that privately guides you
but do you feel like that might shift or
that might evolve in the wake of this
this lightning ball that has reminded us
that we are all the same and we're all
in it together
what does will this lightning ball will
probably affect different people in
different ways so it's still about you
know seeking out yeah I think it's made
it more clear for me like I started to
write for myself as a form of medicine
to try to process the experiences I had
in life and then what happened was
somehow and at a publishing book and
then I had this like audience and
throughout that time I was like you know
you have to make sure that you stay true
to yourself and your writing for you
blah blah blah but I couldn't stop the
people from coming in even though I
thought I was doing a really good job of
it they had broken down the doors and
the gates and whether I like to admit it
or not I mean now I realize it but I had
suddenly stopped writing for myself and
now I was writing for the people at I'm
writing for my publisher as I'm writing
for my team my
manager I'm writing for the people who
are constantly like where's book three
where's book three where's book free and
so I think who I'm writing for just
became clear because I know I've been
trying to write for myself but it's so
hard in a busy world where there's so
many expectations and now that the world
has stopped and there was a moment of
pause and stillness I'm forced to come
back to myself and so a couple of days
ago I was having a total messy breakdown
and I was on a call was the zoom call
with a bunch of other artists and they
were just like when was the last time
you felt happy writing like you really
really just enjoyed it a hundred percent
and I told them I was like the last time
I felt a lot of joy writing was before I
got published which was five years ago
well and she though said okay so I want
you to just take a second you've been
doing these this workshop and I gave on
IG live I gave everybody this prompt to
write a letter and she's like I want you
to use your own prompt and write a
letter to yourself from 2014 before you
published and it's been like one of the
most therapeutic things that I've done
and I'm just trying to remember that
every day so who I'm writing for has
become more clear it hasn't it's just
changed back to who I was supposed to be
writing for and I hope that doesn't
shift because so easily without us
realizing it can shift because the
external world sort of takes over
amazing so beautifully said yeah I'm
sure we can all relate to that can't we
is that sense of other people entering
your creative process for
second-guessing their reactions and
responses how do you guys deal with that
for tomorrow how do you yeah well I
wanted to touch on something Ruby said
something you said R is I think you know
writing I don't know if you go through
this when you're working on your albums
but or Nikesh I wonder if you and Ruby
agree with me but it is a lonely
occupation it's a solitary occupation so
for a lot of us whose job is to sit in a
room quietly for seven hours a day I
feel lucky to be able to
new my work in the middle of this
strange and surreal moment but then to
go back to what you said earlier is
about identity I think it's so
interesting that you wanted us to talk
about home and especially at this moment
where it seems that half of us are
divided between people who are lucky
enough to be at home and the other half
who just aren't you know we're talking
also about countries like India like
Pakistan where this pandemic is
presenting itself in unusual ways in new
ways so we're not just seeing people
wonder how they're gonna stay sane at
home but we also see migrant communities
migrant workers subsistence workers
daily wage workers who just don't have
the luxury to be at home or who cannot
get home and how this moment has forced
all of us I hope to think about others
to think about people who are
incarcerated I mean it's it's it's
something I think about because I can't
remember the last time anyone else had
to collectively think about prison
populations because the population at
risk now affects all of us which should
be the case in healthy times but but
just never is you know and so we've seen
you know countries like Iran like I
think Jordan even they've released
prisoners in Pakistan a lot of
provincial courts have given orders to
release prisoners but the Supreme Court
just stopped that and people are talking
about it and I kind of wonder why we've
waited for this to talk about it you
know why did we just clung to our
identities for so long when isn't the
thing to do to drop them to just be a
million identity that wants which is
what we are anyways but yeah and I saw
there's some conversation right now
about Rikers Island prison in New York
which I kind of researched a lot for the
night of and if there's a conversation
happening there about inmate should be
released or not a lot of people in
Rikers actually awaiting trials they
have never been found guilty of anything
so but in a way kind of way of saying is
that well at least what I'm kind of
taking when we were saying is that
what's happening right now with corona
reminds us that we're all the same we're
all in it together we only think about
each other but also the circumstances of
what's happening are really showing that
actually we're not all in the same boat
at all it's really kind of throwing up
the inequalities in our society and in a
crazy way something that I'm worried
about is how after this yeah you know
what kind of world will be being will we
be in a world that is more equal or more
unequal you know I said a world of
closed borders or a world of we're all
in it together people become complacent
like right now everyone's like it's easy
for us to say oh we're all in it
together we're all in it together but
then the moment things go back to the
way that they were and we're comfortable
in our lives again we just become
complacent yeah and so how do how do you
not become complacent how do you make
sure that people remember it's a good
it's a good thing to remember this
moment where we require everyone to be
well in order for us to be well I mean I
I agree with you Ruby I'm slightly
terrified at the moment this is over
everyone wolf again and we'll just go
back to looking inward that is that is
the fundamental isn't it like our
well-being is interconnected our
well-being is something that we have to
kind of calculate realistically it's not
just about my well-being it's about we
are one organism you know I don't know
if we will be able to forget this
anytime soon to me this feels like the
kind of event it's like what you know
World War two scale event you know the
whole world is going through this
together
think that you know what's gonna happen
to our economies and you know the lives
that may be lost I think this is one of
those moments when we're gonna kind of
reimagine certain aspects of society and
I guess yeah like in the face of all
that can sometimes feel a bit daunting
about like what the hell is our role in
that you know the hell is me saying in
my room writing have to do with that or
is it actually an absolutely essential
part of it if kind of what you've been
saying is you know through your pens
where you
you're creating home is is not is
possibly is now the moment where we can
really dream up a home through the pen
well we can co-create a vision of what
the future can look like right well I
think what this has shown us is how like
fickle capitalism really is and so
clearly it didn't work it doesn't
doesn't work so are we gonna go back to
how things were I don't think the world
can so I agree with you on that but then
what does the next thing look like and I
think that's really interesting as well
yeah I I've been thinking about how this
is helping me to be more present and I
think being present has been the last
few years when it comes to like you know
you're thinking about I've got to get
this so I've got to be in this place
I've got a you know working to do X Y
and Zed but you know I've got to two
kids and having this opportunity to
build a relationship with them was
really really incredible at the moment
because I get to be present with them
and that for me has been a real
eye-opener I've been thinking less I've
been worrying less about the future and
no I'm worrying less about the past and
actually just being in the moment being
Windows to people is that that moment
then there's all the matters to that you
know so it should be it should be the
only thing that matters to me in that
moment
that's beautiful Nick it's beautiful are
you homeschooling your kids nagesh yeah
yeah we are we get stuff from from the
from the school that you know we go
through and we're kind of also you know
today I we took them on a virtual trip
of new to New York to kind of you know
because you know all the websites that
are opening up their digital doors to
kind of show different exhibitions and
stuff and so we kind of curated a day a
day out in New York which is quite fun
you know while concentrating on the
spate of having to exist in the space we
can take those opportunities to do go on
flights of whimsy and you know utilize
our own imagination and that and that's
kind of the fun thing about being a
writer is that I get to I get to use my
imagination in ways I haven't in a
really long time that you know that idea
of play yes degree yeah I've been trying
to like because I get so trapped in work
work work go go go thinking about the
future in the hustle culture that I have
been trying for a long time to like
escape that and have my romances play
and this is definitely this definitely
helps because there's many moments when
there's nothing to do except you know
open up an old box of you know old art
supplies that I haven't touched in years
or old books and so ya know but that is
isn't that a great lesson I mean because
that's essentially the only way to
survive anything is to focus on the
moment and to be there for what's
happening then and to take everything
day by day I think again it's one has to
keep saying how lucky we are to be able
to do that huh and there's an incredible
privilege and we're incredibly fortunate
to go day by day but it does feel it
does feel like a strange
pause doesn't it in some way and I I
really hope we're able to sustain it
although I kind of feel like I'm still
doing what I always did in a way which
was yes I feel like it this is the same
I'm like I realize I socially distant
all the time no not about it because
they somebody's telling me I can't go
out I know this is the last two weeks
have really done I've really shown a lot
of people in various creative industries
that a lot of meetings just be emails
yeah and they can be done and that's
that's been interesting do you guys have
a routine
you tryna stick to a routine you're just
sort of taking these day as it comes
well and I struggled for the first
little bit just felt like everything is
soup
you know when the future feels like it's
foggy then it's harder to make sense of
the present and so I wasn't really sure
exactly how I can help what I can do
turn our way we can help is by just
staying home
you know maybe trying to provide some
distraction some connection for people
and now I've come up with an absolutely
insane kind of like for like writers
trying to figure out technology that's
never gonna work so um yeah I mean so
basically now I'm just like getting up
at 8:00 trying to like just get my head
right
trying to meditate I'm really bad at
sitting still so I'm trying to get
better at that so I'm trying to do there
that try and do some creative work from
nine till twelve and at twelve I work
out with a friend on on skype or
whatever and having someone else there
except bounce off and to just push you
is just it's really the highlight of my
day really just getting to kind of move
around yeah then I'll have lunch and
afternoons for for emails and stuff I'm
supposed to meditate again at 4:00 I
don't do that that never happens what
really happens that's what it's supposed
to happen what really happens is I have
a bit of lunch I get my phone out and I
go down a kind of news wormhole or a
social media wormhole and then I feel
kind of anxious in the middle cause
someone then you're worried about family
and you know all that kind of stuff and
really I guess that before I'll be able
to stick to any proper routine I'm
trying to just put my phone down a
little bit mmm crazy it's like that's
the only kind of connection yeah I'm on
my phone more than I've
in a very long time that's the last
thing that the planet that humans needed
right was a push towards living more on
their phones and feel like this virus is
gonna make it worse because now all
these I feel like industries and
corporations are gonna figure out find
out ways for us to like hold a bee on it
more in case something like this happens
again I know we're not trying to stay on
there our phones but can I just say if
you are on your phones
then it would be great if you check out
this series that we're doing which
roofies been a part of ana cash is gonna
be a partner we talk about it man it's
amazing what's up
so son of my hair is another karate
writer and sure at this incredible book
called a woman like her which is about
can deal below Chan it's about honor
killing and celebrity and virality in in
Pakistan and sanam had a bunch of events
lined up for that book now and I am
supposed to be on runaways paperback
tour which is about a bunch of people
who run away to join Isis so these are
all like really uplifting topics that I
don't think anyone wants to talk about
during corona but we found ourselves
kind of stranded and we were thinking
you know this has happened to us what's
happening to a lot of younger writers to
writers who maybe are coming out with
debut books or you know who works on
projects for years and now they find
themselves drowned under this CNN news
wave and also we were wondering about
lowliness and what do people do when
maybe they don't have people to check in
with and so we reached out to a whole
bunch of writers who we love and who we
read and who were curious about and
including rupee and Nikesh and and asked
them to read to us to just make small
videos where they read to us for three
minutes either from their own books or
from books they loved or from both and
we're sharing those online so our screen
time is really like it's out of control
but it's called stay home stay reading
and you can find it through the hashtag
on Instagram we were trying to convince
rizz but maybe you can do like some of
your some of your music or some of your
own well you know that's one thing
I have to admit is I've always had I've
always I've never really been a massive
reader I've just never developed the
hobby I always found it hard to sit
still I always had quite a bit of like
kind of a DD going on and I was kind of
you know it did well at school but I
didn't I just the act of sitting down to
read it's something I've never made part
of my my daily routine of my life if I
always felt like I'm sitting down I
should be writing should be writing
lyrics or making something rather than
absorbing and it's something that I'm
just kind of trying to turn the corner
towards more now so actually maybe that
should be my kind of Corona commitment
to myself is read man try and read some
books it's amazing that you're doing
that for tomorrow what what are you guys
kind of reading right now to kind of
help you yeah digest to escape what's
going on right now handily I've got
loads of books here at my desk so this
this comes out in Kate Amara I just want
to give it a plug it's called sway by
pradya agrawal it's it's an it's a
nonfiction book about unconscious bias
it's really really interesting really
readable book about unconscious bias so
calls again knickers
sway unraveling unconscious bias and I
always say just because I have them here
that reminds me by Dara cabooses a
really beautiful book of poetry about
mental health debut by Paul Mendes
called rain by milk and my dear friend
Nikita Lalwani has a book called new
people that comes out that's basically a
thriller about illegal immigrants
working in the restaurant in the
restaurant economy in North London it's
really amazing so those are the books I
just want to give a shout out to that
amazing amazing recommendations why you
had them at the ready wise Nicola said
yes to doing this talk so how many of
those do you publish how many of those
develop okay
by the rest of you guys there anything
that you've picked up boy that you're
hoping to pick up I'm getting some book
recommendations in the comments guys in
the comments if you've got any book
recommendations or if you've read any of
this stuff there's a great poem Riz
which I which I think you should read
actually it's written by a Assyrian poet
called nazar Ambani
and he writes this beautiful poem and
it's there's a section where he talks
about living in England away from
Damascus and his mother would send him
letters and inside the letters she would
place tarragon which is a which is a
herb that reminded him of home and that
they used to inspect his letters and
they would call Scotland Yard and say
what is the meaning of this thing in
your letter and what is it code behind
it and he writes in this poem about
trying to say to these investigators
that it means I miss you you know it
means come home it means when your you
know your your family thinks of you your
home thinks of you and they kept
searching for this sort of explosive
message of the tarragon so I think that
should be on your reading list okay I
actually have a copy of that once on you
I love Barney I think he's gonna have
one of my favorites yeah told me to
check out the returned by Sean Murtagh
that's very good - yeah yeah similarly
about someone kind of returning back -
yeah yeah that sense of longing learning
a pattern with what you're into here for
tomorrow yeah what about you repeat I am
reading I just started this morning I
started when things fall apart by I'm
gonna pronounce her name wrong Pema
Chodron
she's I think she's a Buddhist teacher
it's been on my desk for a while that's
one of the new books I picked up I've
been avoiding reading anything
triggering okay because I know you want
to find stuff that's a bit more Morgan
yeah or something that I already
something that's comfortable so actually
I did I went through a list for stay
home stay reading I'm reading a lot of
Sharon old poetry as I'm you know trying
to write and then I'm reading a lot of
there's this like really funny there was
one evening this week or maybe it was
last week I was just having a really bad
night and then I just read these really
funny comments they're comics about
adulthood because I think I hit like I
like left school and I was like why I've
arrived like with my little degree
what's what what's next and then I was
like wow they all liked me there's
nothing I know nothing
and so that's kind of yeah we do feel
like we're living through that moment
isn't it oh yeah we don't know anything
I'm getting some great recommendations
in the comments here Nikita gills poetry
Nikita join us earlier also
post-colonial banter by sohail omens or
amazing spoken word always here from the
UK just mercy yeah a lot of amazing kind
of recommendations guys because some
Alisha fog
Chiron keeps coming into what's that
tell us about that this is one of my
favorites that I I don't know if I
included in a stay home read stay
reading but this really great book about
so Lisa spent 10 years writing this book
and she went and she lived with three
different women and the book just talks
about desire and sexuality and what that
means to these three different women and
it's just like one of the most striking
and gutting prose I feel like I've read
in a really long time one of the girls
or women in the story is a woman who as
a 14 year old her teacher had a
relationship with her and so how she was
kind of Houston from society because of
that and then there
two other stories and it's just it's
really beautiful on some of them most
like getting that of course I bread so
this is one I'm revisiting as well well
amazing I'm trying to just make up you
know if you seen that scene in
succession where there's a dinner party
and he goes what are you reading right
now and he just kind of makes up a fake
book yeah it's called guys just before
we kind of like you know left I wondered
whether there was anything no matter how
sure that you guys might want to share
and read so everyone is tuned in I know
rupee a lot of people would be very
eager to hear anything that you wanted
to read of your own work but not to put
you on the spot if you wanted to read
anything for anyone else is it could be
really brief it could be a sentence it
could be a paragraph
you've all I know have lots of books and
unlike me remote control I didn't bring
anything which does the problem so I
don't know if there's anything that you
kind of well I just want to point out
that both Nikita and Prague Yahoo Nikesh
mentioned are doing readings for stay
home stay reading amazing and wait and
just remind us how can we get on the
stay at home stay reading you just
follow you it's it's sanam on instagram
and she's at top bastard or it's me and
I'm me and I'm at F Berto or you could
just follow the hashtag which is stay
home stay weeding and you'll find the
videos that way okay pull something
about to pull out a little something
yeah so I'm going through the page
proofs of my next book which is out in
we're supposed to be out in February but
it's now been pushed sorry it was
supposed to be I mean in September
there's been push there everybody's
called brown baby a memoir of race
family and home
I was just read a little bit from the
opening paragraph how to bring you into
this world I never considered becoming a
parent myself until my mom died I'd like
to think there was a moment when the
switch flicked on or the force field
came down or the upgrade happened
between the hours of 1:00 a.m. and 4:00
a.m. plugged into a power source
Wi-Fi switched on there was nothing like
that nothing dramatic happened there was
no tearful staring out over a field of
bluebells no pristine cake chewing
revelation no need to cement my legacy
you didn't appear to me in a dream I
didn't read a saccharine poem about
inheritance I didn't hold a friend's
baby and have that big final chorus and
Barry Manilow's and looks like we made
it or up to my head you just arrived one
minute your mom and I were getting drunk
at Christmas and the next there you were
in my arms Wow adulthood really is a
myth really dynamically amazing so when
is when is this book is it out now in
the kitchen no it's come here in
February 21 it was first command there
are a lot of books that were supposed to
be on now though being pushed to the
autumn and so we got it so the decision
you know crowd people not not overcrowd
the book buyers we like more staff so
maybe a call wait beautiful
can't wait amazing rupee did you have
something to hand that you wanted to
share yes I will
I'm just gonna share I think this is the
one that's probably most relevant it's
just the last one and my book the year
is done I spread the past 365 days
before me on the living room carpet
here's the month I decided to shed
everything not I'm deeply committed to
my dreams the day I refused to be a
victim to the self-pity here's the week
I slept in the garden the spring i rung
the self-doubt by its neck hunger
kindness up took down the calendar the
I danced so hard my heart learned to
float above water again the summer I
unscrewed all the mirrors from their
walls no longer needed to see myself to
feel seeing comb the weights out of my
hair I fold the good days up and place
them in my back pocket for safekeeping
draw the match cremate the unnecessary
the light of the fire warms my toes I
pour myself a glass of warm water to
cleanse myself for January here I go
stronger and wiser into the new love
that take the mirror down from the wall
no longer need to be seen you know yeah
is interesting isn't it it's that now a
lot of us is always kind of been we've
had our audiences taken away you know
how good or we are sitting with
ourselves how good are we when there's
no one to kind of validate us and give
us that round of applause and where
there isn't an audience can you can you
still be an artist without an audience I
don't know that's just one thing that
just popped into my head as you were
saying that that's really beautiful
rupee is that the last poem in your last
book that came out yes yeah this is just
a hardcover so it looks a little bit
different than the paperback I don't
know where that one is amazing beautiful
did you know of course my absolute
pleasure phantom oh you didn't you said
you didn't have anything to her you know
what I don't have the runaways with me
annoyingly but I did want to read you a
poem that I loved and I used as an
epigraph for my last novel and it's a
poem by Nazim hikmet and I think it's it
speaks to what we've all been talking
about and it's a tiny little verse which
starts my country I don't have any caps
left made back home nor any shoes that
trod your roads and I've worn out your
last shirt quite a long time ago it was
made of Sheela
now you only remain in the whiteness of
my hair intact in my heart in the lines
of my forehead my country beautiful just
to end on thoughts of home yeah thank
you so much guys it's been really
inspiring conversation it's really
beautiful to hear how you know your
complicated answers to where is home
I've actually inspired such incredible
work they inspire so many people and
it's really it's really beautiful just
to hear the kind of you know your human
experience right now I'm dealing with
this crazy moment we were living through
I'm not sure what lies on the other side
of this crisis that we're all facing but
I think that you know your voices and
your pens will be part of kind of
writing the next chapter of what we will
are living in together so thank you so
much thank you for taking out a time
everyone thank you everyone who tuned in
and yeah we'll be back for another long
lockdown on Friday we will be going in
depth on The Long Goodbye album with
Bilal Qureshi so tune in with any
questions everyone stay safe stay home
wash your hands
you
