Tom: Hi, everybody.
Welcome to "Impact Theory".
You are here, my friends, because you believe
that human potential is nearly limitless,
but you know that having potential is not
the same as actually doing something with
it, so our goal, with this show, and company,
is to introduce you to the people, and ideas,
that are gonna help you actually execute on
your dreams.
All right.
Today's guest is a force of nature.
She is a venture backed, Founder/CEO, and
inventor.
She created her first game changing product
at age 19, and she founded Uncharted Play,
a renewable energy company, at 22, while still
attending Harvard.
Instead of dropping out, like other high profile
entrepreneurs, she just did both, because
well, when you box for fun and consider yourself
a cross between Bill Nye and Beyonce, that's
just how you roll.
I'm not sure that even the superhuman that
would be the Beyonce-Bill Nye hybrid can keep
up with today's guest.
Despite having no formal training in the hard
sciences, not only did she invent a product
that turns a soccer ball into a power plant,
but her company now holds 15 patents, and
patents pending.
She also managed to raise seven million dollars
to supercharge her company's growth, the largest
raise ever by a woman of color, and she's
partnered with Fortune 500 companies to completely
rethink how energy is generated and distributed.
Not surprisingly, Inc. Magazine, named Uncharted
Play one of the 25 most audacious companies
in the world.
Fast Company named them one of the 10 most
innovative companies in the world, and she
personally was named to Fortune's most promising
women entrepreneurs list, Forbes 30 under
30, and when Obama needed somebody to represent
small businesses, when he signed the historic
America Invents Act, he chose her.
Please, help me in welcoming the female innovator,
who has been called the Elon Musk of kinetic
energy, the woman Oprah named to the SuperSoul
100, the real life Riri Williams, Jessica
O. Matthews.
Jessica, thank you so much for coming on.
Jessica: Thank you.
Tom: What a pleasure to have you.
Jessica: Real life Riri Williams.
Tom: Yes, which is why I'm wearing this shirt.
Jessica: That's so dope.
Tom: I completely, really enjoyed doing the
research on you.
When I saw in one of the articles that I was
reading that you dressed up as Riri for Halloween,
I said, "All right".
Jessica: Yeah.
Yeah.
Tom: This is my kind of woman.
I respect that.
I'm huge into comic books, and really believe
that they actually have tremendous power as
archetypes, as mythology, so ...
Jessica: Me too, like anime, and manga, I
remember the first time I read Akira.
I just believe in the ability to use play
to think about the world.
That, to me, is exactly what comic books do.
Tom: All right.
I didn't expect to start here.
Jessica: Yeah, yeah.
Tom: But since you said that, let's dive right
into the Tooth Fairy.
Jessica: Yes.
Tom: Tell us why the Tooth Fairy is meaningful
to you.
Jessica: No, so I believed in the Tooth Fairy
until I was 12-years-old.
Okay, it is generally embarrassing, but I
like to tell people that because I didn't
necessarily grow up in a house where we allowed
certain stories like this to kind of spread,
and progress, and become bigger than life.
My mom was the mom that would be wrapping
up the Christmas presents the night before
Christmas, being like, "Oh, yeah.
Hold this, do this, do that".
Like, Santa Claus was not coming to my house.
I knew exactly what my mom paid for it, I
knew what was going on, I knew the hard work
that went into it.
For some odd reason, given, rather, despite
the fact that I had parents who were very,
I think, direct about the realities of life,
the realities of the world, and the hard work
it takes to get anything, they decided to
move forward with the "fib" of the Tooth Fairy.
For me, because that didn't really make sense,
I just assumed, "The Tooth Fairy must be real.
It must be because my parents would not give
me money for my teeth.
I just don't think they see the value in my
teeth".
I have Nigerian parents, this just doesn't
make sense.
What I love for that, and I have several reasons
for why I love my parents, and everything
that they did, and continue to do, but I think
what really made that something that was special
for me, is that they allowed me to be a person
who believed in magic.
A person who believed in hard work, a person
who believed in science, a person who believed
in how you can create real tangible solutions
towards something that you want, but that
there can also be a bit of an intangible,
unquantifiable sense of what you're trying
to do.
There's a way to make room for that, without
losing your stability and your certainness
on what really matters in the world.
When I finally did realize that my mom was
the one, basically, putting these dollar bills
under my pillow, it happened at the age of
12.
At an age where I had already started to really
dabble in science, dabble in thinking about
how to build robots, or entering different
science fairs, and so my frame of the world,
my way of thinking, had already begun to really
form.
I think it just ended up making me the person
who I am today.
Tom: I love that.
As a company, we're making a big bet that
millennials are doing business in a way that
nobody has done before, and I think that story
really illustrates what I think is happening,
the shift.
15 years ago, when I first got into business,
and you'd go into a board meeting, or you'd
present to a VC, it was so buttoned up, and
so business like, and everybody would've moved
their company to Silicon Valley, to be a part
of that, and I get that, right?
That actually makes a lot of sense, but they
were very happy to sort of subvert themselves,
and who they are naturally, to fit in, to
make the world make sense ...
Jessica: Yeah.
Tom: To maybe overemphasize the science aspect.
What I find fascinating is instead of doing
that, you move to Harlem, and looking at what
your parents did with the teeth, and seeing
wonderment.
I think what you said was, "I found wonder
in the unknown".
Jessica: Yeah.
Tom: Talk about that.
I think that's really intriguing.
Jessica: There's several things there, right?
One, there's the concept of getting to know
oneself, and owning that, and then going down
a path that fits who you are versus kind of
fights against who you are.
Starting first with the last thing that you
brought up, "Wonder in the unknown".
Yeah, there's just so much excitement in figuring
out how things work for me.
I don't know, whether it's people, or the
things around me.
What stresses me out is not hard work, it's
not knowing what work is going to be involved.
You know?
As soon as I have a process in place, or I
have a framework of how something should be,
so I can build up steps to how I want to address
it, it's not stressful.
Think about, I've been doing this now for
almost 10 years.
It's never been really, really intense, or
difficult for me.
It's always been hard, you know, a lot of
work, but because I understand what I'm doing,
I know what I'm doing it for, I know what
I'm fighting for.
I understand the step in terms of what's involved
to make sure that I never lose sight of what
I'm fighting for.
Everything else is just kind of going through
the motions, the motions that I know to be
valuable.
That ties back into what you're saying before,
in terms of, choosing to go to Harlem.
Choosing to be as authentic as possible, in
the way we build this company, and seeing
that, not as something that we were just doing
because it was a nice idea, but because we
really believe that it is our competitive
advantage.
It is the thing that's going to really catapult
our company to being the first billion dollar
tech company in Harlem, and one of the most
meaningful tech companies in the world, if
we keep doing what we have to do.
It all goes back this idea of realizing ... Okay,
I am a black girl, with immigrant parents,
who grew up in Poughkeepsie, New York.
Decent schooling, but nothing spectacular.
Was lucky enough to get into a great college,
mostly just because my older sister was one
of the first people from my high school to
get in there, and she set the path.
She's actually, right over there.
Tom: What's up, sis?
Jessica: Yeah, she set the path where I was
just like ... When you're only two years younger
than your sister, you're like, "If you can
do it, I can do it".
It made it real.
It didn't make it too scary.
I'm not the classic Silicon Valley CEO.
I think that, for me, I used to believe that,
that meant that I could never really achieve
what they achieve.
That there were certain parts of the world,
certain levels of success, certain levels
of business, that were just going to be too
big for me.
It's like, how could I dare say, "I'm going
to run an energy company, that I'm going to
build wealth for a community.
Who the hell am I?"
Tom: How did you get over that?
I think most people have that, but they stop
there.
Jessica: The first thing that I did was not
think too far ahead.
The idea was, instead of imagining from day
one, "I want to build an energy company".
It was more imagining, or really envisioning,
"Why am I getting up in the morning?
What's the point of my day?"
For me, I'm really, really excited by self-actualization.
I'm really excited by the idea of figuring
out ways to one, recruit people to be part
of the solution to the world's problems, because
I truly believe that there is, given how complex
our problems are, there is no one person or
company, that's going to solve all of them.
The only chance in hell that we have is if
as many people as possible are engaged, and
feel empowered to be part of that solution.
I think it's like, how can I then create systems
and products that, I almost want to call them
domino innovations, like they basically beget
other innovations.
They inspire the right people, to start to
solve the things that I can never imagine
solving.
In doing that, they make that one life that
they're living, that one life that they have,
feel like it was worth it, on whatever day
happens to be their last day.
That really excites me, especially also, I
think I would add too, recently, wanting very
much to make sure that little girls who look
like me, believe that they can do anything.
Tom: Yeah.
Jessica: And believe that they can do more
than just media and entertainment, in particular,
and believe in the value of their perspective.
That's what gets me up in the morning.
Everything else, the details, I can push through
that day.
What I found is that, instead of trying to
live a successful life, if you aim to have
a successful day.
If you have 13 out of the 24 hours of your
day, if you won those hours, you won the day.
If you win most of the days in a week, you
won the week.
We just need a simple majority here, right?
If you win most of the weeks in month, there
you go.
Most of the months in a year, most of the
years in a life ...
Tom: [crosstalk 00:11:37]
Jessica: All of a sudden, look at that, without
even trying, you've been able to kind of get
somewhere.
The biggest roadblocks for me were in those
big momentous moments then.
Like, getting ready to raise the round, for
example, was one of those big moments where
I realized that, without knowing it, I had
been building a life up to this big leap.
It wasn't about starting there, thinking about
the leaps, thinking about the big momentous
things that would have to happen.
It's like, you just go hour-by-hour, day-by-day,
week-by-week, month-by-month, year-by-year,
and then all of a sudden, five years into
working on something, I have the opportunity
to raise the largest round any black woman's
raised in history, and I'm afraid.
I'm afraid, despite everything I've gone through
to get there, I'm afraid, and it's because
I still am just like ... Yo.
I know me and Mark Zuckerberg went to the
same college, but that's about it.
I was on the Step Team, I know he wasn't.
You know what I mean?
Tom: Shocking.
Jessica: Yeah.
From what I understand, he wasn't.
I don't ... We have a different life.
I know that ultimately these investors are
looking to invest in people that they understand,
right?
I think, actually, a lot of people, I don't
think I'm special in that.
I think people like to understand things.
In the worst of times in my business, if they
don't understand me, then they're not gonna
understand my decisions.
They're not going to have faith in how I'm
going to get us through this.
Tom: Right.
Jessica: It was, actually, this person who's
currently one of my advisors, works for one
of the top VC's out here on the West Coast,
and he said, without missing a beat, "Jessica,
Mark Zuckerberg could have never invented
the Soccket.
It is your life, it is your unique perspective,
it is who you are, that has brought you here.
Anyone who invests in you, is gonna want you
to be who you are.
They're going to have to trust that being
who you are, even if it's different from who
they are, that's going to be the thing that's
going to take this to the next level, no matter
what".
I think, for me, that was the critical piece
of advice, right?
We all need someone to say the thing that's
been so obvious, but we've just been, too
head down to realize.
We all have our struggle, regardless of who
we are, whether you're male or female, black,
orange, green, who cares?
We all have our struggle, and we all have
our privilege.
I consider it a privilege to be born of Nigerian
parents.
Forget Tiger moms, Lion moms!
I still should be getting my law degree right
now, according to my mom.
You know what I mean?
Tom: Of course, because you haven't done nearly
enough.
Jessica: Exactly, but that's the push, right?
That, to me, is privilege, to have parents
who believe in you, irrationally so.
You know?
I feel privileged to have gone to the schools
I've gone to, right?
In the end, it's about recognizing the value
in our own struggle, being appreciative, and
aware of our privilege, to we can have empathy
for others, and their experience.
We can bridge the gap for them, and then being
able to take all of that, and own it.
Say, "This is who ... " Can we curse?
Can I curse?
Tom: Go for it.
Let's get crazy.
Jessica: I'll try not to, though.
Tom: Trust me, I'm not gonna try not to, so
jump in, the water's warm.
Jessica: This is who the fuck I am.
Tom: There you go.
Jessica: This is who I am.
Hello, to who you are, and to who you are,
that's great, but this is who the fuck I am.
Tom: Right.
Jessica: Take it, or leave it.
I know that no matter what happens, if I stay
who I am, I will feel good about it, at the
end of the day.
You know?
That's the only thing that's going to be constant
in this ever changing world, especially in
the start up space, is who I am.
In really meditating on that, and thinking,
"I don't know what's gonna happen with this
round, I don't know what's gonna happen with
this company, but I do know who I am.
Let's double down".
Most people, they raise money, they get out
of Harlem.
We went to Harlem.
I don't think people really believed it until
I also moved my ass to Harlem, because I don't
like the commute.
I'm all about that walk.
I'm all about around the corner walk.
We moved the company uptown, I move uptown,
and we immerse ourselves.
It was the best decision I made, not just
because again, it reminds us, it's just a
diverse community.
We're talking about building products for
people of diverse experiences around the world,
and the beauty of Harlem is that you'll meet
seven different types of people on the way
from the subway, to the office.
They're living their lives in seven different
types of ways.
From your rabbi on 96th, to your barber on
125th, these are experiences that count.
These are voices that are meaningful.
Honestly, for us as a team, it's like, "How
can we give back as much as we're getting?
How do we make sure that in being here, we're
promoting urban renewal, and not gentrification?"
We've done things like, we created a 501c3
called, "The Harlem Tech Fund", which is entirely
designed to figure out how can we help the
legacy members of Harlem be a part of the
tech conversation, the entrepreneurial and
innovation conversation.
Tom: Tell me about what you think the obligation
of business owners are today?
You've talked pretty eloquently about the
onus that businesses have.
Jessica: I don't know if there's an obligation.
I don't know if I think that anyone has an
obligation just because they run a business.
I just know that I woudn't get up in the morning,
if it's just about profit.
I want to make sure that on my last day, whatever
day that might be, and maybe this is just
more primed for me, again, because of my struggles,
because I remember a year when my aunt, my
uncle, and my grandfather died, just like
that.
I have a younger sister, who died.
You start to realize that there's this life,
and then there isn't because I feel blessed,
despite the hardships we may have had as a
family growing up in Poughkeepsie, and making
sure we'd have enough money to be able to
put ourselves through school, and all these
different things.
My parents always made sure I had what I needed.
I think, I feel like I've had a great life.
I've often felt like, to be honest ... I used
to think that God gave me too much, and that
he did it by mistake, and that the only way
for him not to notice, is if I just was super
productive with everything.
"Keep him busy, keep him busy.
Don't look at me over here.
Let me just invent this Soccket.
Don't worry about it.
Go look at LeBron.
He's too tall.
Don't worry".
You know?
When you are appreciative, and grateful for
what you have, and the life you have, you
want to give back, you want to make the most
out of it, and you want to make sure that
on your last day, you don't have regrets,
because that to me, is the only solution,
to death is, accepting it.
Being 100 percent just focused on profit,
in the end, if you have to look in the mirror,
you have to be with just yourself.
When you close your eyes at night, if that
completes you, dope.
Dope.
You know?
Tom: That's what I love about what's happening
in business, and the changes that are coming
now.
I think in many ways, you're really an amazing
example of that, of somebody who refused to
be anybody but themselves.
I think the quote you gave about not moving
to Silicon Valley was, "I would have to change
who I was in order to survive in Silicon Valley,
and I'm not prepared to do that".
Jessica: Yes.
Tom: I love that.
Then, looking at sort of the business realities
of what it means for you, specifically, to
be encountering a very diverse population,
that you can do that in Harlem, that's really,
really smart to look at it, but you don't
come at being yourself from an obstinate standpoint.
You've already pivoted the company.
Jessica: Yeah.
Tom: Moving from the Soccket, sort of as the
primary vehicle to your more technology.
Jessica: Yeah.
Tom: Walk us through that insight.
Walk us through, because here what I think
people need to really understand, and what
I think is really powerful about you, is being
able to hold these two ideas in your head.
"I'm going to be me" and "I'm gonna listen
to the marketplace".
The ability to do both, is I think, incredibly
liberating, and I think for young entrepreneurs,
especially, to hear that message of, "Yes,
be you.
Yes, you need to know who you are, but you're
gonna run a business, you have to listen to
the market".
Jessica: I think that the parallels are actually
very similar.
Let's say, a startup is ... I don't know,
a young celebrity actor, something like that.
That's how I used to think of the Soccket.
It's just like, super flashy, super amazing,
but are we developing the right way as a business?
Are we actually asking the right questions
of ourselves to make sure we have the longevity,
so we're still getting roles when we're, you
know, 37?
I think, for me, so when I say, "I know who
I am", I guess, the unsaid portion, though,
is like ... For the things I don't know about
myself, I'm open to finding out.
Tom: Right.
Jessica: I think the idea is to think about
our lives as a constant research experiment.
Tom: I love that.
Jessica: Who I thought I was, and what I thought
I wanted when I was 19, is to a certain extent,
similar now, but there's also a lot of difference
in the nuances, and the details of the execution.
I think, what it is that we all have a core
that is like our soul, that is our kind of
ethos that we're born with, that's our ethical
nature, that we get from our families, and
our friends, and where we grew up that ideally,
and hopefully, it's good.
I think that nugget, that's always unchanging,
and you have to figure out who that is, what
that is inside of you, as soon as possible.
I've always been a very reflective person.
I've always been someone who will ask myself,
every six weeks or so, "Am I happy?"
It's a really simple thing.
It's just like, the answers are either yes,
or no.
You know what I mean?
If it's a no, it's like, okay, am I doing
things that while right now, maybe I'm not
blissfully happy, are working towards something
that I know will me happy?
You know what I mean?
Am I generally happy with the idea of the
trade offs that I'm making right now, or that
I have to deal with, does that make me happy?
If that's a yes, it's like, "Okay, cool".
If it's still a no, stop everything.
Nope, this doesn't make sense.
I've always been the kind of person who would
check in.
Again, because I feel like ...
Tom: Do you have a system for that?
Where you literally just say, "Every morning
I'm gonna ask myself this"?
Or ...
Jessica: No.
I think there are two systems I really have.
One, is that I like to make a To Do list almost
every single day, except for weekends when
I just feel like doing nothing.
Tom: Right.
Jessica: Everyone needs rest.
Ever since I was 19, I made the mistake freshman
year of college of going in, and having no
goals.
Freshman year, I actually did horrible in
class, because I didn't know my goals of what
I wanted to achieve academically.
I let my body fall apart.
I lost myself, and because of that, I realized
that I'm the kind of person who needs to work
to know herself, and consistently keep track
of who she is, and what she needs.
Tom: That's so powerful.
Jessica: Okay, also, the high level, when
they tell you, "Hey, we're gonna need you
to leave school, because your grades are bad".
Tom: Wow.
Jessica: And like your Nigerian parents are
like, "So, we're gonna need you to leave our
home".
No, they didn't do that.
They didn't do that.
They were just kind of like, it was more just
like the look.
The silent look of disappointment.
It's the worst.
Any Nigerian kid will tell you, I rather get
arrested then have my mom's disappointing
look.
With that, you're like, "Okay, I need a solution".
So, I started doing two simple things.
One was the check in, which I do just ... It's
more like you can sense.
If you take some time to be quiet, you can
sense when you're not in equilibrium, and
that's when you ask.
That's it.
Just running, running, running, running, running,
without taking a time to just figure your,
know where you are, then there's probably
gonna be other symptoms when you're just overeating,
or overdoing this, or not sleeping.
People will be able to tell you, "Yeah, you
don't look balanced", if you asked.
If you asked them.
That's the time to ask yourself, and the second
thing is, a list.
The key thing about that list, and it's always
more than what I could ever reasonably accomplish
in that day, because I like to push myself.
You always end up accomplishing, still more
than what you think.
I like to never feel satisfied with myself,
and I've been doing those two things for ten
years.
That's why I'm here.
Tom: I love that.
Yeah, staying unsatisfied is something that
I think a lot of people don't, they don't
know how to balance that.
They think if they're unsatisfied, that they'll
be unhappy with themselves, that it's somehow
corrosive, but really, I find that virtually
everything I've accomplished in my life is
because I'm always unsatisfied.
Whenever I set a goal, by the time I get to
that goal, I've already set another goal that's
farther away.
Jessica: Yes.
Tom: I am constantly moving the goal post
myself.
Jessica: Yes.
Tom: Because that keeps me going, it keeps
me hungry, it keeps me pushing, because like
you, it's not about the money, right?
The only promise I can make anybody, you're
gonna feel exactly the way you feel today
about yourself, you will feel, even if you
earned a billion dollars, right?
Jessica: Yeah.
I agree with that.
Tom: Whatever insecurities you have, all of
it, money can't touch that shit.
Jessica: It's like a black hole that you're
filling with the wrong things.
Again, I try not to be too prescriptive in
what people ... I can only speak for myself,
and what I understand in my limited number
of years on this planet about life, but I
don't think there's anyone who said on their
deathbed, "I'm so glad I made that billion
dollars".
Whatever, I don't think that's the thing.
Tom: I want to push you on that a little bit,
and the reason is, I think a lot about this,
because we've chosen not to have kids, so
I often run the scenario of, when I'm on my
deathbed, everybody tells me, I'm gonna be
thinking about the people in my life, and
all of that, so I'm gonna have that moment,
where for sure, I'm gonna be, some part of
me will wish that I had, had kids.
I can already put myself in that position,
and I can get it, but I don't want to live
for that moment, right?
We all have phases, cycles, and things that
we go through, like right now, I will tell
you, this company would not exist, this Impact
Theory is the deepest reflection of what I
want to do in the world, and it is only possible
at this level, because I made money.
Jessica: Yes.
Tom: If I hadn't made money ... I'm literally
thinking, "Thank God, I made that money",
because now I'm able to do what my whole life
has been building towards this moment.
My whole life is about the reason that I mentioned
Riri Williams in the beginning is I believe
that there is ...
We are going to usher in a movement where
people really understand pop mythology and
understand how to become you, because of it.
That there is some girl right now, because
of how we're gonna bring things in, and fuel
that kind of mythology, and all the stuff
that we're gonna wrap around it, that a young
girl who did not believe that she could become
you, is gonna become you, because she read
a comic book that really espoused the kind
of philosophy that you've cobbled together
over the years, to become that.
But, nobody's handed it to them before and
said, "This is real.
Don't read this like a comic book.
Read it like it's real".
To bring it back, all of that is only possible
because I made the money.
I think there's something more interesting,
I think, and you'll correct me if I'm wrong,
but I think there's something that's more
interesting that's driving you.
There's something more interesting that keeps
you on the sort of compass of who you are,
and who you're becoming, and I want to talk
about your concept of thinking outside the
boundaries, right?
Jessica: Yeah.
Tom: How did you not let people define you?
You literally, there's so many boxes people
are trying to cram you in, but you're a real
human.
Jessica: Oh gosh.
Tom: How have you shucked all that off?
Jessica: It's interesting, right?
To your first point about needing resources
to accomplish what you want to accomplish.
I think that, that definitely makes sense.
I think it goes to the idea of saying, sometimes
you're doing things that are hard, and exhausting,
and not fun, and aren't in the moment making
you happy, but you're fine with it because
you know why you're doing it, and that's fulfilling.
I think, for me, when I think about everything
I've been through with Uncharted Play, and
all of the work that's still ahead, because
I know that if I am not, I like to call it,
"Snatching economic edges".
Like, when snatch someone's edges, it's like
with the precision, you're able to snatch
an edge, and just ... It's a black thing,
but it's like, it's just like, "Ooh.
Gotcha".
You know what I mean?
I want to like, there are some people in this
world right now, that I'm just like, "Want
to snatch your edges".
You know that I mean?
Especially, in our government right now.
I just want to ... But the way to do that,
to me, the way I believe I am most suited
to do that is economically.
To me, it's like, you know what?
I can't march.
I can march, but I can't march forever.
I can't, like I'm not that artistic with the
signs.
My signs would be a little lame.
What I can do is very quietly figure out how
to control the energy systems in the world
and be able to figure something out.
Tom: Yeah, but that's crazy powerful.
Jessica: The idea there, though, is I don't
think want to just do that because it's like,
"Oh, great.
Now, I'm powerful.
Now, I don't know.
Now, whoever will like me".
It's more just like, "I can not let the next
generation come into a world where you are
the paradigm.
I can not".
There's just something in me, and I think
... Why have I been able to just stay who
I am, and not be trapped, and it's true, I
always kind of bring things back to my parents.
What they knew, for sure, was that education,
to them, education was the way out.
You know?
That's why I believe that Nigerians collect
degrees.
We just collect them.
It was my older sister who was the one that
said, "Yeah, I'm not gonna take classes over
the summer.
I'm gonna do an internship".
They were like, "Internship?"
She was like, "Internship!"
You know what I mean?
I don't know where she got the balls to do
that, but I didn't have to fight for that.
Like, I didn't have to come up with some magical
way to convince them that it's not just education,
you need experience, you need to understand
x, y, and z.
I came into it with this great opportunity,
and that's the reason why I always think it's
important for even people who can say, "Listen,
I run a company out of an inner city".
Or, "I'm a woman".
Or, "I'm a black person.
I'm the daughter of immigrants".
I still had the privilege of this.
No one is anywhere without somebody helping
them.
We just, we're too quick to tell our stories
without including those people in it.
I think, I'm lucky because there are a lot
of people who have paved the way, who have
come before me, who had to learn things, and
teach them to me, with a quickness.
I think, in a weird way, I was able to stay
who I am by being open to learning about who
I am, from those who had been working to figure
out themselves, as well.
I think it takes a certain sense of humility
to be willing to listen to those people, but
also, I think it takes a certain sense of
logic, I guess, and dynamic thinking to realize
that what they're telling you is simply part
of your full concept of yourself.
Not the all, not the total of it.
That's one thing I think I do pride myself
in being able to do well.
I can hear the advice of a lot of different
people, and say, "Thank you, thank you, thank
you, this is what I want to do", and I'll
stand by it.
I will never blame someone for my decisions.
I just ... No, it's my life.
Tom: I love that.
I love that.
In fact, I gotta shake your hand.
I love that.
That's powerful beyond measure, and most people
get tripped up in ... Yeah, being able to
take ownership for your mistakes, especially
and say, "Look, this was my choice.
I made it".
It keeps you in the driver's seat, which is
why I'm so obsessed with it.
You have this concept called "Thinking out
of bounds".
How do you teach people how to do that?
Jessica: Yeah.
"Thinking out of bounds" came from this idea,
when people would ask me, back when we first
started out, creating energy generating sports
products.
Now we're creating infrastructure level energy
systems that could harness power from motion.
Tom: That's so cool.
Jessica: Everything from floor panels, to
furniture, to power lighting systems and WiFi,
but where we started was just with a soccer
ball.
Being Nigerian, pulling from the experiences
I had in Nigeria with my cousins, and a lot
of people asked me when it first came out,
"How do think that out of the box?
How did you get this idea?
How did you make this thing happen?"
It's funny because I would say, "I didn't
even know what the parameters of the box were.
I didn't know this was a box.
I am not a trained engineer."
The unfortunate thing, I think, sometimes
about the way engineering is taught, is that
you're kind of pushed to scare yourself away
from the bounds of what might be impossible.
You are afraid.
You're taught to be afraid to be wrong.
That I know, so you will do anything you can
to make sure you're right, which is awesome,
and you see this amazing work ethic, and this
amazing precision, in the way engineers will
build things, but god forbid they say something
that's wrong and I'm happy to be wrong.
I'll say something like, "Blah".
I'll be like, "The sky is green".
"No, it's not".
Okay.
Good to know.
I thought it was green, moving on.
Just in case it is green, "Hey, the sky is
green today!
Look at that!
Look who said the sky was green!"
That ability, that freedom to just kind of
fluidly be comfortable with your thoughts,
whether they're right, or wrong, because as
long as you're coming from a place of logic,
hey what's [crosstalk 00:33:32]
Tom: Can you teach people that?
Can you give them the confidence to not be
afraid of being wrong?
Jessica: We're trying to.
We have this really cool curriculum called,
"Think Out of Bounds", and it's actually something
we distribute when we're distributing our
soccer balls, and our jump ropes.
It's designed to teach people how to invent
with limited resources.
The idea is, how could you build someone's
creative confidence?
Ultimately, thinking out of bounds, it's about
creatively working outside of the realm of
what is known, out of the realm of what's
proven, out of the realm of what you believe
to be right.
Considering things like that in a very flexible
way, the older someone is, usually the harder
it is.
Tom: Because they're more dogmatic?
Jessica: Yeah, they're more just kind of like,
"Listen, my life experiences have told me
x".
You know?
Tom: Right.
Jessica: Actually, let me rephrase that.
It's usually not their "life experiences",
it's usually what they've read.
I'll go to an electrical engineer, and I'll
say, "I know that a diode needs to be here,
but entertain me here, what if we don't put
one in?"
They'll be like, you'll see them like, "It's
impossible!"
You know what I mean?
I'm just like, "But, is it?
Have you ever tried it?
You know, let's see".
I'll say those things that you can tell they're
just like, "Is this ... She's crazy.
Our CEO is fucking crazy".
I'm just like, "Yeah, well, you took the job.
You should have known what you were getting
into to".
You'll start to push them, and you'll see
it.
I'm like, "Listen, if you can take the knowledge
you have, and then be willing to kind of play
a little bit outside the bounds".
The key is kind of step-by-step, though.
Tom: I'm gonna ask you a question, because
I have experienced this so many times.
I am so with you.
How do you approach it when it's you on that
end, and somebody comes to you with a crazy
idea?
What do you do mentally, internally, to be
open to that?
Or, are you open to that?
Jessica: I think the first thing I try to
do is just the thing I was mentioning earlier,
where instead of what I've been told to be
true, or what I've read to be true, I first
say, "Do I have any personal experiences that
I'm just like almost in my gut?"
It's almost like you have to fight the intangible
with the intangible.
In my gut, here's why I just don't believe
that makes any sense.
Then, we have a really interesting kind of,
I don't want to call a "pastime", but I guess
for the sake of having another word, a pastime
in my company where I'm always saying, "Listen,
conflict.
Fight back.
I'm saying this, put together your thoughts,
logically, and come back at me.
I want you to convince me that I'm wrong.
Find the holes in my argument.
Find the gap in my thinking".
We'll go, I like to go toe-to-toe.
I think, for me, what I personally do, in
general, to be open to these things is like
... This is gonna sound really weird.
I'm very wary of knowing too much about any
one thing.
Tom: That is really fascinating.
Jessica: I will know enough, so that I can
execute, if I have to, so that I can manage
someone in that space, so I can advise that
person in that space, but I am very wary of
becoming so obsessed about one specific thing.
Tom: Why?
Jessica: Because when you know too much, it's
hard to distinguish between your personal
feelings about something, and what you've
read.
You will take what you've learned, and it
will absorb you and become your way of thinking.
It will overly encompass your way of thinking,
and they'll be no space for that weird, "Could
the sky be green" question, because your mind
is full of the facts.
I try to leave enough space where I could
just fill it with nonsense, and that nonsense
is inspiring to me.
That's hard.
Again, engineers, they have to take so many
classes, they have to do so many hours of
studying, so they end up pushing ... They
barely have enough space for that information,
to say the least, to have 10 percent space
for nonsense.
Yeah, it can be hard, but when you start at
a younger age with someone, they're able to
figure out how to always leave room for that.
It goes back to the story about the Tooth
Fairy.
My parents left a little space for the story
about the Tooth Fairy, and so I'm able to
learn a lot about a lot of things, and still
be like, "But, also the Tooth Fairy can exist".
That, I feel so lucky that I had that experience.
Tom: God, I really hope people are listening
to you right now because there's this really
cool concept that you're putting wonderful
words around, which is an expert is somebody
who can tell you exactly how things can't
be done.
Jessica: Yeah.
Tom: I have that same fear that you have of
becoming that expert, of thinking I know so
much, that I don't stay open.
One of the questions that I wrote down for
you, that we're already talking about.
Your company is so innovative.
Jessica: Thank you.
Tom: Jesus, it speaks for itself.
How you keep an open mind?
How you train your staff to keep an open mind?
I love that it's something as playful as the
Tooth Fairy, and look, I get it.
You've really brought it back down to Earth,
with what's actually going on, which is leaving
yourself open, and the wonderment of not knowing,
but it's been formalized.
Jessica: People will be afraid.
Uncertainty is scary.
New information is scary.
Change is scary.
Everyone has a different way of handling that.
[crosstalk 00:38:40]
Tom: How do you manage change?
Your company has been through some pretty
radical change.
Jessica: Yeah, in the company, I will pivot
when necessary.
I'm like, "Dead end".
Do what you got to do.
I can take new information and adjust the
plan immediately, and have no qualms about
it, and just move, move, move.
The way to balance that is that outside of
work, I really like things to be stable.
I like to date nice guys.
I've never been attracted to the "Bad Boy".
Why in the hell do I want to be with the bad
boy?
Why?
He's like, "I don't know if I'm gonna call
you".
Bye!
I want the dude who's like, "Here's some flowers".
Thank you, honey.
You know?
"Let's go to the movies".
No problem.
"Are we too boring?"
Nope, we are not too boring.
This is wonderful.
This is everything.
I like stability in those ways.
Everyone has their thing, and that's what
helps me.
You do need to have a balance.
You do need to have something that you can
count on.
You need to have that pole, that you can go
back to when everything looks crazy, that
you can reach out to, to hold on to.
Yeah, that's how it works for me.
If I didn't have that, I think I'd be much
more afraid of chaos at work.
Tom: All right.
For somebody who likes stability outside of
work, why do you box?
Jessica: Oh.
Okay.
There's like the feminist answer, and then
there's the nerdy answer, and they're both
true.
Tom: All right.
Let's hear them both.
Jessica: From the feminist answer, I like
to be strong.
Tom: Respect.
Jessica: I like to be strong.
I like to, I believe in mental strength, spiritual
strength, and physical strength.
I think a lot of women don't lift weights,
and I don't know why, because it lifts your
ass, which is awesome, okay?
Do your squats.
Do your squats.
Do your squats!
There.
Tom: Right to the camera.
I love it.
Jessica: You know?
It's just, it's dope.
When you live in the city, you got to carry
your groceries.
Before all of the delivery things, you had
to carry your groceries to your home.
That alone, made you want to get into the
gym.
It's like, "What weight is seven bags from
[crosstalk 00:40:50]?
You know what I mean?
You want to make sure you can carry that.
I like to be functional.
I like to have functional strength.
It's kind of fun to think about also, when
you're in a world where bad things happen
to women, to know that, "All right, I don't
know what's gonna happen ... " I want to look
like, if a predator is walking by, I want
him to be like, "I don't know if I'm gonna
win this fight", and just walk by.
I want him to look at me, and be like, "This
is a tossup", and just keep walking.
"Exactly!"
You know what I mean?
That, I think, is fun.
From the nerdy side of it, though, there was
something, the idea of being a ninja, or like
a superhero ...
Tom: Oh, yes, my friend.
Jessica: Always just seemed really cool.
You'd watch these movies, and just see people
do these dope things, and you're just like,
"That's cool.
That's exciting".
Yeah, so learning a skill, like kind of felt
fun.
I like developing skills ...
Tom: I like that.
Jessica: That really expanded my mind, and
expand the way I can use my body, and I had
never done this before.
My mom would have never let me.
I think that the third thing for me too, is
that I realize that boxing is actually a really
great analogy for business.
Boxing is inherently reactive, and active.
You have to have your strategy, but constantly
be realizing that your strategy will change
in the manner of a second, because once you've
done one thing, they've now adjusted, and
are about to make everything you want to do,
it's almost like chess, in a weird way.
Tom: Where the pieces, punch him in the face.
Jessica: Where the pieces are the punches,
which I think is better because running a
startup is painful.
It's painful when you're sleeping on the floor.
It's not chess, it's boxing, right?
For me, when I think about where we're going
into business now, playing in very dynamic
industries, very scary big industries, I can't
just have my plan, be like, "Here's my plan
for 2017".
It's like, "Here's my strategy for 2017, and
I am prepared to do what it takes to stay
alive".
What I tell my investors is, "All you need
to know is that I will be standing at the
end of this match".
That's it.
If I have to, all of a sudden, do an uppercut
that I've never done, or switch to southpaw,
out of nowhere ... Hey, I'll do what I have
to do because I'm gonna win this fight.
In the end, say whatever you want to say about
someone's fighting style, if they won, they
won.
You know what I mean?
That's what I love about boxing.
It's not only that it requires you to think
on your feet, and also be very light on your
feet, very delicate.
If you plant your feet, and you come around
you, it's just like if you plant yourself
in your ideas about your business, you will
lose.
When you do make that mistake, you feel the
pain.
You don't just think about the pain, you feel
it.
Yeah, it's cool.
Tom: It's awesome.
Jessica: It's cool.
Tom: That's a great answer.
I have one more question, but before that,
where can these guys find you online?
Jessica: You can go to U-PLAY.CO. U-Dash-P-L-A-Y
dot C-O.
You'll see all the stuff that we've been doing
with what we like to call our "Legacy products".
Like how we're actually working to uplift
one million kids around the world over the
next four years ...
Tom: That's amazing.
Jessica: By using our "Think Out Of Bounds"
curriculum, and our Soccket ball, and our
energy generating jump rope, The Pulse, to
inspire one million students from income poor
communities, to realize that they are the
future.
They're going to be the next Einstein, and
backing those ideas.
If you go to U-More.co, that's M-O-R-E dot
C-O, you'll learn about the core technology
that's inside of the soccer ball, and the
jump rope, and that we're using to bring power
to communities across Africa, and soon, all
around the world.
Everything from flooring, to furniture.
That's the two big ones.
If you want to find me, and just follow my
random life on Instagram, you can find me
@JESSOMATT.
J-E-S-S-O-M-A-T-T.
Yeah, you can find me Instagram, Twitter,
I do random stuff on Facebook sometimes, just
Google me that way.
Yeah, no.
We try to keep it real, or you could just
come to Harlem.
You'll probably see us walking around.
I'm always walking around.
Yeah.
Tom: "Just come to Harlem".
That is the best answer anyone's ever given.
Jessica: Come to Harlem.
Harlem's not that big.
Just be like, "Hey, where's that energy company
at?"
One of them will be like, "Over there".
Tom: Nice.
Jessica: Yeah, yeah.
Tom: All right.
Last question.
What's the impact that you want to have on
the world.
Jessica: For me, the impact I want to have
on the world.
I know ... For me, when I all started this
whole thing, what really kind of originally
drove me, was really about self-actualization.
Creating systems and products that streamlined
the way people could self-actualize in their
lives.
Making the journey as valuable as the end
result.
That's something that's still really huge
for me.
Like, how can we make sure people have just
really happy, fulfilling lives.
I think, more specifically now, given a lot
of the things that have happened in this world,
over the last few years.
Rather, a lot of the things that have been
brought to light.
They might have always been happening.
I hate feeling, there are some things, no
matter how much you believe in yourself, that
just suck, especially when you're a black
woman.
They just really ... For example, it sucks
feeling like no matter who you hire, because
you're a young black woman, they're going
to ask you things that they would never ask
an older white guy for.
There's no respect.
I feel like Rodney Dangerfield.
I can't get no respect.
You know what I mean?
Hey, I'm born in '88, I can still make that
reference!
Tom: I was gonna say, that's impressive.
Jessica: Yep.
When you think, okay, let me hire people then
that look like me.
We as black women, we as women, are not awesome
to each other.
Girl, Hillary knows.
Hillary knows.
People just ... Black women came to vote for
you, though.
We came out.
We came out.
It sucks.
It's hard.
It's one of those things where it's like,
we live in a world that's so complicated that
it's not enough to just say, one of us succeeded,
or there's one example.
It's going to take so many different things
happening to really shift the way we, not
only learn how to love each other, but learn
how to love ourselves.
You know what I mean?
Like, as women, as women of color, as black
women.
I want to make a significant step forward
in that direction.
I want my daughter to enter a world where
she doesn't even have to explain, "I know
I'm different, but here's my competitive advantage".
If there's a pattern matching, that people
are looking for, in the tech space, they're
looking for either a Mark Zuckerberg, or a
Jessica Matthews.
Then she could just come out and be like,
"Yup.
Duh.
Obviously".
You know what I mean?
That would be awesome.
I want it to be that like when I'm flying
through, if I'm flying first class, people
aren't assuming I'm Venus or Serena.
That's it.
It's just like, literally, they'd be like,
"I thought you were Venus, but I know you're
not, so what is it that you do?"
When you tell them an energy company, they're
just like ...
Tom: Right.
Jessica: You know what I mean?
I want it to be like, "Ah, indeed.
Like Jessica Matthews, of course.
Of course".
There's more that we can do than that.
I just, I want to expand the way we think
about black women.
I mean, that's all, and what we think young
women can do.
What we think people on the East Coast can
do, because it sucks.
It's exhausting.
It adds this unsaid level of weight.
You know?
Unspoken level of weight on my shoulders,
and the shoulders of a lot of my peers that
it does slow us down, and it is exhausting,
and it is heavy.
No matter how many weights I lift to make
sure I can carry that, in addition to my bags
from the grocery store, I still prefer not
to.
If I can make, like a step forward in that.
If I can really, just again, building on what's
already been done from the people ahead of
me to do that, that would be so dope.
It would just be the dopest.
Honestly.
Tom: Jessica, thank you, so much for coming
on.
Jessica: Thank you.
Tom: That was incredible.
Guys, this woman is gonna take you places
that you can't even imagine.
You're gonna want to look her up in the places
that she told you about.
She is doing something on an infrastructure
level, that I want you guys to really understand.
This is not somebody that dove into the obvious
business.
This is somebody who looked at the world,
and said, "I can do the infrastructure better.
The things that are invisible.
Those are the things that I can, and will
do better".
To have that gumption at her age is miraculous.
To have it at any age is spectacular.
To be able to do it so young, and to have
defied so many definitions that the world
has tried to put on her, and to see her shuck
that off, I think she's gonna be taking steps
to expand a lot more worlds than maybe she's
even aiming at right now because that is the
incredible power that I see in her, and her
willingness to center herself, and who she
is.
Not only who she is today, but who she wants
to become.
To let her companies reflect that, to be as
nimble as she is, to be able to go into the
center of Harlem, and say, "We're gonna build
the first billion dollar tech company here",
is absolutely incredible.
I hope to one day be as brave as this woman.
It's been an absolute honor to have her on
the show.
Guys, as you know, it is a weekly show, so
if you have not yet already, be sure to subscribe
and until next time, my friends, be legendary.
Take care.
Jessica: Thank you.
Tom: Best of luck.
Thank you, for coming on.
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