LBW: The time that the state of Israel from what I can understand and please correct me if I'm wrong for the state of
Israel when it first came into existence was after the Holocaust after World War II.
and to me the World War II or the Holocaust specifically was like the culmination of
It was like the the horrendous crescendo to all that had been building up around the Jewish populations around this group
of people that have been maligned for hundreds or thousands of years and because of the various conditions that were
emerging in Europe at that time.
Fascism rose and the Jews were seen as the scapegoat and seen as the as the vehicle for the Nazis to gain
control of the state and expand their empire basically and out of that came this horrendous thing called the Holocaust right
Now to me it doesn't seem like a coincidence that the state of Israel would have emerged.
almost
within a very short time after that event ended do you see it a direct connection between what happened in the
Holocaust and what is now the state of Israel?
YOAV LITVIN: Well this connects to something that I actually was going to clarify which it's important to remember that Zionism was very
unattractive to most Jews.
Most Jews decided to emigrate most Jews who faced the pogram and this is why I
initially
Initially discussed these defensive strategies because most Jews.
who could escape escaped
that is a
very basic fundamental defensive strategy if you can leave.
violence you leave violence, right? So the Jews who could leave to the US or to the or to the UK or other locations
did it did not choose Zionism Zionism seem to most Jews like I'm
You know like we look at
Messianic Christianity, right and we're like this is this is just crazy this kind of manifest destiny philosophy that
thinks that something that is written in a book from thousands of years ago applies to today and that we have a
right over other people, you know is it's fundamentally racist and most Jews ejected it as such
the Holocaust presented Zionists with an opportunity that they made just didn't have it was kind of a
A golden opportunity for them. You know, I'm not saying that.
they were cheering for that or
for Adolf Hitler
though and I've documented this and I've written about it and others have documented the fact that zionists.
collaborated with fascists with anti-semites and still do until today because there are many joint interests.
The number one joint is interest is this vision of global apartheid right where the Jews are all in Israel
and
And the white people are in their white countries in the black people are in their black countries, right?
So this is kind of notion fascistic notion of global apartheid is something that was always present in the Zionist
movement it's a Cornerstone of it, but back to your question the Holocaust presented Zionist with this.
unbelievable opportunity to actually fulfill their
Vision and it looks like it wasn't going to happen.
Not a lot of Jews were falling for it
and many Jews were very critical of
Of Zionism in the end and I reviewed the book written by.
Moses Menuhin who's the father of the violinist Yehudi Menuhin as well
same last name and it's a very anti-zionist family and who pretty much spoke in very clear certain terms about
Injustice that was going on in Palestine very early on way before the state of Israel.
The Holocaust just kind of
made opportunity happen for
Jews who for example, my grandfather was escaping the Nazis and
the only place he could go was Palestine.
It wasn't that you had a choice.
So he went there because otherwise he would have been killed.
He wasn't the Zionist.
He just wanted to live his life.
and I think most Jews who escaped the  Nazis were like that. They weren't his kind of fervent.
You know like that like that early Zionists who came to Palestine were very idealistic. Most of them use who came in
during a World War II we're just trying to get away.
Yeah, so the Holocaust was kind of an and also a huge propaganda.
boost to design to the Zionist Project right because you
We need a Jewish state. They're killing us everywhere else. We need somewhere we can be safe etcetera etcetera.
ROB SEIMETZ: So a question I had is you.
you've talked about this as well, and I'm wondering how is this successful is this fusion of self and Nation with Zionism,
especially because
A lot of Jews initially rejected Zionism. How is that been successful?
the fusion ofZionism with nation and self
YOAV LITVIN: Yeah, that's that's
You know extremely successful even claim probably one of the most if not the most successful.
State propaganda efforts in modern history at least
Well, it starts very young.
Okay, so you have to start from a very very early age.
And you have to go against the truth.
pretty much
Right propaganda is is the antithesis of Truth into it's a revisionist kind of version of History.
And you present you present it from a very early age.
Then you make the entire population and accomplice to the crime.
And this you do by just obligatory military service
Right. Everybody is part of the crime.
Doesn't matter if you were serving coffee in Tel Aviv to your commander. You were still some screw in the big machine
Okay, that is the Israeli military, which is oppressing. It's a force which oppresses another people.
Then you use fear constant fear
Constantly and this is I have to kind of charts that I used in the in a talk I gave.
One is this cycle that I talked in your previous question, which is the transition from defense to offense. And the other
one is just a theory and statement cycle.
Right, you take a population that's already traumatized.
And you constantly reinstate the fear.
They're constantly coming to kill us that they want a second Holocaust they want to slaughter
us all they want to erase us and said if every if you look back at the history of Israel, there was always an existential threat.
Okay, and now it's now for example to Iran, right? It doesn't matter that the evidence is contrary to what
Netanyahu keeps
hammering about
talking about in the UN etcetera and people are ridiculing him because it's
He takes one statement from Ahmadinejad
and twists the word the kind of reminds me of the
of the smear campaign against Ilhan Omar, but he twists the words and and and he uses that to claim that Iran is going to
Listen, how absurd it Iran is going to enrich uranium.
Create a bomb.
and then
Launch it to Israel. I mean
you have to you have to be so completely out of your mind to do something like that because
3 seconds later. There's no Iran.
You know, I mean it and for what is it just doesn't make any sense why it doesn't matter as long as you keep fear
mongering. You have the the population by the balls so to speak.
