[MUSIC PLAYING]
[APPLAUSE]
ALEX BANAYAN: Thank you so much.
Hi, guys.
[LAUGHTER]
SPEAKER: Welcome to Google.
ALEX BANAYAN: Thank you
so much for having me.
SPEAKER: So I loved the book.
The book opens
actually with something
I did myself in college, which
is that I went to "The Price Is
Right."
ALEX BANAYAN: No way!
SPEAKER: I did.
ALEX BANAYAN: I
did not know that.
SPEAKER: I did.
And I didn't get on
"The Price is Right."
I actually-- my friend
got the door prize.
And that was as
close as we came.
But you--
ALEX BANAYAN: Wow.
SPEAKER: You made it on
"The Price is Right."
ALEX BANAYAN: Yeah.
SPEAKER: And that's
a big-- the impetus
for a lot of what
happens to you after.
So I'm just curious if you were
so good at hacking "The Price
Is Right," why don't you do
this with other game shows?
ALEX BANAYAN: Well,
I actually have
something very funny
to share that I
haven't talked about much.
SPEAKER: OK.
ALEX BANAYAN: So after
the whole book journey--
and this is like last year--
I realizing the book
tour is coming up.
And I needed some money
to fund the book tour.
So a couple of friends
of mine got a message
that a game show-- a brand new
game show was filming like 10,
15 minutes from where we live.
And it was-- we checked online.
And the final tickets were for
the next morning at 6:00 AM.
So we cancelled our plans
the next morning, showed up.
We use the same "Price
is Right" strategy.
And four hours later, I walked
away with a brand new car.
[LAUGHTER]
And sold the car.
And that helped
fund the book tour.
SPEAKER: So--
[LAUGHTER]
So maybe your next
book should be
about how to hack onto
national television shows
where you can win money.
ALEX BANAYAN: It's
worked out pretty well.
I'm 2 for 2 so far.
SPEAKER: So you
stopped out of college.
You were at USC.
And you talked about the
idea of a dream university.
And that's sort of
why you interviewed
a lot of these people.
How do you feel about
alternative education
and taking a nonlinear path?
ALEX BANAYAN: So I had two
different things pulling at me
when I started college.
So this whole journey
started when I was 18.
I was a freshman in college.
And I was spending every day
lying on my dorm room bed
staring up at the ceiling.
And to understand why I was
going through that life crisis,
you have to understand
that I'm the son
of Jewish immigrants,
which pretty much means
I came out of the womb.
My mom cradled me in her arms.
Then she stamped M.D. on my
ass and sent me on my way.
And in third grade I wore
scrubs to school for Halloween.
I went to pre-med summer
camp, studied for the SATs.
And by the time
I got to college,
I'm the pre-med of premeds.
And that was the goal.
Work as hard as you
can in high school.
And you get to college.
But very quickly I remember
lying on this dorm room bed,
looking over at this towering
stack of biology books,
feeling like they were
sucking the life out of me.
So first I assume maybe
I'm just being lazy.
But then I begin to wonder,
maybe I'm not on my path.
Maybe I'm on a path
somebody placed me on.
And I'm just rolling down.
So when we go back to the idea
of traditional universities
versus a nonlinear
one, I wasn't finding
the answers I was looking
for in traditional classes.
So I just did what I
thought was natural.
I just started googling it.
And I started googling it.
And I started going through
business books and biographies
and self-help books.
But eventually I was
left empty-handed,
because what I
was looking for is
I wanted to figure out when
nobody knew their name, when
nobody would take
their meetings,
how did they find a
way to break through?
How did Gates sell
his first piece
of software out of his dorm
room when nobody knew his name?
How did Spielberg become
the youngest studio director
in Hollywood history when he
was rejected from film school?
So to me I actually don't
think they contradict.
Being in a
traditional university
and taking a nonlinear education
can actually go hand to hand.
For me I made my own hybrid.
I was in school.
And I went to go find
the answers myself.
And what I've learned is that
when you take your education
into your own hands,
that's when you actually
start going on the path that's
going to change your life.
SPEAKER: That's awesome.
And I think that's great advice
to sort of have both and weave
them together.
So this is sort of my take
on the book a little bit.
"The Third Door"-- you almost
use your own third door
framework to create this book.
So it's kind of meta, because--
[LAUGHTER]
--you're talking about how all
of these major, powerful people
use the third door.
But you, yourself, kind
of had to use a third door
to find them.
Is that sort of how you envision
this book, because that's
the journey that I sort of
saw when I was reading it?
ALEX BANAYAN: It's
a good insight.
And I didn't even realize
that until I was looking back
on the book in hindsight.
So the whole premise
and thesis of the book
is that after spending seven
years tracking down the world's
most successful people--
you know when I had started,
I had no zero desire
to find that one key to success.
We've all seen those Ted
Talks or business books.
And normally I
just roll my eyes.
But what I ended up realizing
is that every single one
of these people treats life
and business and success
the exact same way.
And the analogy
that came to me is
that it's sort of like
getting into a nightclub.
There's always three ways in.
There is the first
door, the main entrance
where the line curves around
the block, where 99% of people
wait around hoping to get in.
And then there's the second
door-- the VIP entrance--
where the billionaires and
celebrities go through.
And what school and
society never talk about--
they always make you feel you
either have to be born into it.
Or you wait your turn
like everybody else.
But what I've learned
is that there's always,
always the third door.
And it's the entrance
where you jump out of line,
run down the alley, bang
on the door 100 times,
crack open the window,
go through the kitchen.
There's always a way in.
And what I've realized
is that not only
did all these
people I interviewed
take the third door when it came
to launching their own careers.
I had no choice but to do it
too, because to my surprise
Bill Gates doesn't do interviews
with random 19-year-olds.
So that's why it took this
long process of running down
the alley, getting
muddy, getting
bruised up to make it happen.
SPEAKER: Awesome.
Well to me you epitomize
the third door theory.
So--
ALEX BANAYAN: Thank you.
SPEAKER: --one of the things
that I sort of took away
is I'm often reaching
out to people
and punching over my
weight a little bit
in terms of who
you reach out to.
And one thing that's
amazing is your ability
to find these people,
get them to respond.
Tim Ferriss is a
great example who
teaches you a little
bit about reaching out.
So I was wondering if you could
share some insights with us
about how to reach
out to busy people.
And if you do
actually get to them,
do you find that people actually
are decently responsive?
ALEX BANAYAN: Yes, so one of
the people who gave me one
of the most practical pieces of
advice on this journey was Tim
Ferriss, the author of
"The 4-Hour Workweek"--
SPEAKER: Who's been in here
to do talks, by the way.
ALEX BANAYAN: Well--
[LAUGHTER]
ALEX BANAYAN: --he's incredible.
And with Tim I was 19 years old.
And I ended up having
to-- as you know--
I crouched in a
bathroom at a conference
for 30 minutes waiting
to jump out to meet him.
And I eventually
got the interview.
And what I learned
with Tim Ferriss
is that he started his career
essentially using cold emails.
He emailed the CEO of a company
he wanted to work with 32 times
until he got the job.
And then when he wanted
to become an author
he cold emailed best-selling
authors for advice.
So when I was interviewing
him, I naturally
had to press him on
his cold email secrets.
And he gave me a template
that works unbelievably well.
And it goes like-- if any
of you guys are curious,
it goes like this.
Dear So-and-So, I know
you're incredibly busy.
And you get a lot of emails.
So this will only take
60 seconds to read.
And then you put in the next
paragraph one to two sentences
max of who you are and what
context you have that's
relevant to the person.
And then next paragraph-- one
to two sentences max again--
of a very specific question
they can answer right away.
You know what book do you
recommend a first-time author?
What advice do you
have for someone
who's new to managing teams?
And then the closing
paragraph is the clincher.
[LAUGHTER]
I totally understand if
you're too busy to reply.
Even a one or two-line response
will completely make my day.
All the best, Tim.
And what's been remarkable
about that cold email template
is I've gotten interviews
for the book using it.
I've gotten mentors.
Pretty much the
whole book launch
was brought to you by
that cold email template.
And like you said
it is remarkable
that when you are thoughtful
about how you message someone,
people are really
receptive to helping.
SPEAKER: Because there's nothing
worse than getting a really
long email, especially--
ALEX BANAYAN: Right.
SPEAKER: --if you're
an important person.
But--
ALEX BANAYAN: The long
essay life story emails.
Yeah.
SPEAKER: What you found
is, if you don't ask,
you don't get, right?
So it's a little bit
of a numbers game.
But I think that's awesome
advice and something
I definitely took with me.
So you talk a lot
about mentorship too.
And you were mentored by Elliott
Bisnow from Summit Series.
And I was sort of wondering
if you are now a mentor
having the success
that you've had
and how mentorship has
changed your vision.
ALEX BANAYAN: So what I've
learned about mentorship is--
when you study the world's
most successful people
in any industry--
you can look at finance
with Warren Buffett.
His entire career
changed when he got
mentored by Benjamin Graham.
You can go to any
single person who
I've research and interview.
And there's always
been a mentor who's
changed the entire course
of someone's trajectory.
And what I've learned
about mentorship
is that the most powerful thing
a mentor can do for someone--
of course, there's introductions
and opening doors and advice.
But at the end of the
day what I've learned
is that a mentor can change
what the mentee believes
is possible.
And what I've
learned is that you
can give someone all the best
tools and tactics in the world.
And their life can
still feel stuck.
But if you change what
someone believes is possible,
they'll never be the same.
And that's the most powerful
thing a mentor can do.
That's what I'm trying
to do now that I'm--
the book's out.
And I'm helping out others.
SPEAKER: That's awesome.
You've got to find
your one mentee
who you can really mold--
[LAUGHTER]
Right?
So I'm interviewing
you about an interview
you did with Larry King
who you interviewed.
So this is very meta,
because there's a lot--
ALEX BANAYAN: Very meta.
SPEAKER: --of
interviews in here.
What was that like
to-- you interviewed
Larry King for the book.
You met him at
Nate 'n Al's, which
is one of my favorite
places in LA.
And then he interviews
you about your book.
What was that like
to have that happen?
ALEX BANAYAN: Well, you have to
understand the context of this.
The whole way I met Larry
King is I was sitting
on the sidewalk--
and talk about meta--
I'm sitting on the sidewalk
with one of my best friends.
This is after the eight-month
quest to get to Warren Buffett.
And it ends in a
complete disaster.
And I'm sitting on the
sidewalk completely depleted.
And I'm complaining to
my friend about how hard
not only it is to
get interviews.
But even when I was
doing interviews
they weren't going
the way I wanted.
And as I'm complaining
a car pulls up and out
walks Larry King.
And I end up chasing him
through the grocery store.
And instead of a
restraining order
he ends up inviting
me to breakfast.
And at breakfast not only
do we become friendly,
we end up doing an interview.
And I've been to breakfast
with them over 50 times
over the past five years.
And it gets fully full circle
when the book came out.
And he was the first interview
I did for the book tour.
So it was truly a
remarkable experience.
And the one thing
Larry has taught me--
the secret of interviewing.
And it doesn't matter
if you're doing--
SPEAKER: Good.
It's good for me right now.
ALEX BANAYAN: Yeah, if you're--
OK, ready?
And you're already doing
about whether it or not.
And it doesn't matter if you're
interviewing someone for press
or if you're interviewing a
job candidate, this is the key.
You know Larry looked at me.
And he has that
gruff, Brooklyn voice.
And he's like, the problem
that you kids have--
and he's telling me that all
these young interviewers make
a monumental mistake
from the very beginning.
He said the thing
they do is they
look at all the
interviewers they admire,
whether it's Larry or Oprah
Winfrey or Barbara Walters.
And they look at their styles.
And they try to emulate it.
It's a natural thing to do.
And Larry said that's the
biggest mistake you make,
because you don't know
why those styles exists.
Larry likes to ask
the simple questions
everybody is curious about.
Oprah uses all this enthusiasm.
Barbara Walters
is very strategic.
Larry said if you're
focusing on the style,
you're missing the point.
The reason each
person has that style
is that that is what makes them
most comfortable in their seat.
And when you're
comfortable in your seat,
the interviewee is
comfortable in their seat.
And that's what makes
for the best interview.
SPEAKER: I think that's awesome.
That's great advice for
those of us who interview
and in all sorts of
different contexts.
So you've heard from
Larry obviously.
Have you heard from other
folks that you interviewed?
And what was their
response to the book?
ALEX BANAYAN: It's
been really fun.
One of the most fulfilling
ones for me is--
one of the most
surprising interviews
was with Quincy Jones.
I knew what most people
know about Quincy Jones.
I knew he's the most nominated
music producer in history.
And he's shaped entertainment
over the past 50 years.
But he's the only interview
where I walked in one person.
And I walked out another.
And I ended up spending 2
and 1/2 hours in his house.
And even the chapter itself
I still read sometimes weekly
just to like refill myself
for the inspiration.
And when the book
was about to come out
we had the early galley copies.
And I got a message.
I sent the galleys to
everyone who was in the book.
And I got a message
not from Quincy.
I got a message from someone
who works at his company,
like a random cold message
saying, hey, wanted
to let you know I work for
Quincy Jones productions.
And I love your book.
And I'm like, how did you
get my book, because this
was before it was on sale?
And he goes, oh,
Quincy's been walking
around the office handing your
book person to person saying,
this kid's up next.
You've got to read this.
And to my surprise, Quincy read
the entire book in three days.
And to get that kind of--
I didn't write the book for him.
I wrote it--
[LAUGHTER]
--the reader.
SPEAKER: You didn't?
ALEX BANAYAN: You know I
wrote it for the reader.
But still he's one of
my heroes and the fact
that it resonated with
him makes it so special--
SPEAKER: Maybe he reads
his own inspirational
[LAUGHTER]
--words every week too to
sort of refresh himself.
Now that's great.
That's awesome.
And it is a testimony to
the power of this book.
So I think one
thing that I thought
was difficult probably
when I was reading
it is a lot of the people who
you interviewed already have
sort of extensive biographies.
They already have a
lot of literature,
videos, all of these
resources where
you can find out about them.
What did you feel like you had
to add to that conversation?
And how challenging
was that to sort of add
to what already exists about
Jane Goodall and Bill Gates
and Warren Buffett?
ALEX BANAYAN: So that's
a great question,
because that actually was the
hardest part of the interviews.
I didn't anticipate it.
But when you're going in
to interview Bill Gates you
can't--
well look, you can take an
interview however you want.
I knew that if I only
have one hour with him,
I wanted to make sure that I got
the most value out of that hour
and ask him questions he's
never been asked before.
And to make sure you
don't ask anything
that's been asked before
you have to read everything
about him.
And his biography
is 800 pages long.
And there's hundreds of
articles and interviews.
So before every
major interview I
spent anywhere from
3 weeks to 3 months
fully immersing
myself in each person.
And what I've learned is that
the most powerful insights
from every interview
came from a question
that even the interview
subject didn't
know the answer to
initially, where
they had to go within
themselves and think.
And those are the
moments, whether it
was with Bill Gates talking
about his negotiations in Japan
or if it was Jane
Goodall talking
about when her mentor started
making sexual advances--
when you get someone to
look within themselves
that's when you
get something new.
And that is what's
powerful in the end.
SPEAKER: And you got
really, really good at that.
But I think what
you're saying, which
is important is that you
did a lot of research
and preparation,
because when you only
have a finite amount
of time with someone
you want to make sure you
have that focus there.
ALEX BANAYAN: 90%--
SPEAKER: Not wasted.
ALEX BANAYAN: 90%
of an interview
happens before you
walk into the room.
It's about how well
you know the person,
how comfortable you're
feeling about the topic area.
And when you're in there
if you're fully prepared,
you can completely relax.
And magic will happen.
SPEAKER: That's awesome.
Cool, well, I hope I
know enough about--
[LAUGHTER]
This book to sort of
make it worth your while.
So you talk about low
points in the book.
We've talked about
some challenges.
But you had some-- you
talk about Larry King just
now coming off of Warren
Buffett, personal traumas that
were happening.
How did you get
past that and say,
I'm not going to
give up on this book.
This book's important to me.
It's going to happen.
ALEX BANAYAN: I think
one of the hardest parts
not only if you're
writing a book,
but if you're going out
to start anything new,
whether it's a company,
or whether it's
a new project within
an organization,
the very aspect of
starting something new
inherently has tremendous
amount of rejections built in.
If you're not getting
rejected, you're
not trying something ambitious.
And the wilder the idea,
the more you're going to get
rejected.
And to my surprise 90% of this
journey was me getting the door
slammed in my face.
And it got to the point--
let's say with Warren Buffett--
where I spent eight
months writing him letters
and calling his office.
And week after week
after week getting a no.
You have to understand
I had left school.
I'm working full time
from 6:00 AM to 11:00
PM my only job is asking Warren
Buffett for an interview.
[LAUGHTER]
And you know at month 3
it gets pretty depressing.
By month 6 of that's the
only thing you're doing,
it gets to the point where your
insides are black and blue.
And it feels like you're
going to cough up blood.
And what I've learned at
the darkest points, where
there was no hope in
sight is that two things
saved this mission.
The first is that-- you guys
remember the movie "Castaway?"
By a show of hands, who
remembers the movie "Castaway?"
OK, perfect.
So remember Tom Hanks
is on the island.
And he has the
volleyball Wilson.
There have been many
points in this journey
where I felt I was Tom
Hanks on that island
and no phone, no communication,
completely alone.
And my Wilson-- the
volleyball I would talk to--
would be the core reason why
I had started this journey
in the first place.
And I had a belief from
the very beginning--
SPEAKER: Did you have
a real volleyball?
[LAUGHTER]
ALEX BANAYAN: No, but
it would be in my head.
This conversation
would be in my head.
When you're doing
something new you
learn your best friend are
the voice in your head.
And I just believe from the
very beginning that if all these
people came together-- you
know not to promote anything,
not for press but really just
to share their best wisdom with
the next generation--
young people can
do so much more.
And at the points I
wanted to give up,
because my life was
miserable on this process,
I realized this isn't about me.
And it was holding
onto that idea.
It didn't re-energize me and
make me say, this is awesome.
It just helped me not let go.
And the second
thing that I think
is grossly underrated,
especially now in 2018--
you can turn on YouTube or--
you will find a million
business authors yelling at you,
never give up, 24/7.
Keep up the hustle.
How about take a nap?
How about take a fucking break?
And I think there's tremendous
value when you're getting
rejected, when you're getting
your-- you know, just--
life is just handing it to you--
taking the afternoon
off sometimes is
the thing that
keeps your mission
going, whether it's having
a bowl of ice cream,
going on a bike ride,
or even just turning off
your phone for an hour.
Yes, it's not good
to just waste time.
But the worst thing is
to give up altogether.
And sometimes taking
a short break--
SPEAKER: Sure.
ALEX BANAYAN: --is
the key to keep going.
SPEAKER: Yeah, and that
helps you be more productive,
because you've rested.
Who do you wish you
would have gotten to?
You didn't interview
Sergey or Larry.
I'm sure you have
a long, long list.
ALEX BANAYAN: There's a
funny-- there's the cameo--
Larry has the cameo in the book.
[LAUGHTER]
It's a weird cameo.
But it's [INAUDIBLE]
SPEAKER: Read it.
And find out.
ALEX BANAYAN: One of the--
it's another bathroom story--
[LAUGHTER]
ALEX BANAYAN: --one
of the people who I do
wish I could have talked to
or hopefully I can talk to
in the future is Barack Obama.
And of course, I've admired
his leadership ability,
his political savvy, and his
public service over the years.
But it wasn't until about a year
ago when my dad passed away.
You know when a parent passes
away you sort of find yourself
in this hole where you
don't even know what's up
and what's down.
And I remember the first
week after my dad passed.
You know right when it happens
in your life is sort of filled
up with the funeral and
the memorial and the shiva.
And when that stuff ends
you're just left with grief.
And no one is around you.
And it's-- I still can
remember that feeling.
And I remember waking up
one morning not knowing
what I was going
to do, because I
took a little time off writing.
And I saw this book on my
shelf, "Dreams from my Father"
by Barack Obama.
And I had never read it before.
And just because of the title
I ended up reaching for it.
And I spent that whole day
reading that book and crying.
And reading about how
he lost his father
made me feel less alone.
And if I do have a chance
one day to interview him,
that's what I want
to talk about.
SPEAKER: That's awesome.
I think that that--
like you've done with so
many of these interviews
finding something
specific that has not
been talked about before
is such an important angle.
I think that's an awesome goal.
So I hope you get there.
I hear he'll be back
in Chicago soon I hope.
So you've interviewed some
really, really famous people.
You interviewed some sort
of lesser known but really
important business people
like [? Key. ?] You talk about
[? Key ?] [? Time ?]
from Microsoft.
Do you think there's sort of
lessons all over the board
all the way from Lady Gaga,
who has infinite sort of fame
to some of these
executives who are famous
but not in the public eye?
And so what's the
difference there in terms
of interviewing someone
who's a little bit less
in the public eye?
ALEX BANAYAN: So you
brought up Chi Liu.
And sometimes like my
friends and I will joke,
because we wrote this book--
I wrote this book when I
was 18, 19, 20 years old.
We used to think of
the book sometimes
as like this Coachella
lineup, where you
have the big names at the top.
And then you have the
smaller names at the bottom.
But it's the smaller
names sometimes--
the smaller bands that always
blow you at a music festival.
And one of the people who
you brought up-- his name
was Chi Liu.
And he grew up in a--
almost nobody knows his name.
And he grew up in a rural
village outside Shanghai, China
with no running
water, no electricity.
People were so
poor in his village
that they walked around with
deformities from malnutrition.
And we think our education
system's bad in America.
In his village for
every 300 students,
there was one school teacher.
But she was very smart
and worked really hard.
And by age 27 had made
it to the university
and was making the most
money he's ever made--
$7 a month.
Fast forward 20 years later, and
he's a president at Microsoft.
And it's one of the most
remarkable stories in tech
that you've never heard.
And what I've learned
is exactly what
you said-- that while there's
tremendous value, of course,
in the Bill Gates and Lady
Gagas in the world, sometimes
it's the Chi Lius that
throw you back in your seat.
And wisdom exists anywhere
where there's a good question.
And if you're asking the right
questions and if you're curious
you'll find answers
to things you
didn't even know you needed.
SPEAKER: I agree with that.
So I'll try to ask
a good question.
So you talk about the third
door obviously as a mindset.
There are people who
we know have made it
through the third door--
Steven Spielberg, Lady Gaga.
Can this be applied to anyone?
Or is this just for gifted,
extraordinary people?
ALEX BANAYAN: I believe that--
like you said the third
door is a mindset.
It's a framework.
All these books that offer
you recipes or blueprints
for success, I
don't subscribe to,
because I think everyone's
life is different.
But you can have a mindset
that opens possibility.
And what I've learned is that
the power of the third door
framework is that it
applies to anybody who wants
it to apply to their life.
So anybody who's going out
to start something new,
anybody who's trying
to make a dream happen,
whether it's
career-wise or personal,
whether you're trying to make
new friends or find a spouse,
get a dream job--
anybody out there who wants
to make something happen
and doesn't want to wait
around and hope life's
going to hand you
what you're expecting,
the third door
mindset is for you.
Now the hard part
that people don't
talk about when it
comes to the third door
isn't actually the process of
getting into the third door.
The hard part is leaving
the line for the first door,
because that's where you were
placed when you were a kid.
That's where you were raised.
That's where-- school
has to function there.
It would be chaos
if kids were running
around all day in high school.
And in many times human
beings have a natural desire
for certainty and comfort.
But what I've learned is
that no one achieves a dream
from the comfort of certainty.
And that's the hardest part.
SPEAKER: I'm going
to invite everyone
to start lining
up for questions.
I have a few more.
But I'd like to open it up.
If anyone has any questions,
please line up at the two mics.
Have you sort of
heard from people
who have been
inspired by the book
and have gone through
their own third doors?
And do you have any
specific stories
that made you feel really good?
ALEX BANAYAN: So the best
part of the book launch
by far has been getting
responses from readers.
Like even yesterday I spent a
couple of hours just reading
different messages.
And I can't not cry,
because in many ways
this dream wasn't about
this, because this is just
sheets of paper bound up
with ink splashed on it.
The whole point of this--
SPEAKER: It's nice, though.
ALEX BANAYAN: It's nice.
[LAUGHTER]
The whole point of
this mission, though,
was for that effect
on the readers.
And there's been a lot
of different responses.
There's a few that
I'll never forget.
One person was exactly 18 years
old, a freshman in college.
And he wrote-- and the
fun part is sometimes
you get messages as an
author directly to you.
And sometimes they just
post it online not knowing
you're going to read it.
I like those, the ones
they don't even know.
Like I'll spent a lot
of time on Google,
like on the 23rd page of Google.
The 23rd O is my
favorite O. That's
where the interesting stuff
happens on the internet.
And there was this
one kid who wrote,
reading this book felt
like meeting the best
friend I always wished I had.
SPEAKER: Oh, are you
going to meet him?
ALEX BANAYAN: I
tracked him down.
[LAUGHTER]
This is like a 19-year-old
kid in his dorm room.
And I tracked him down--
SPEAKER: And you
got your mentee.
ALEX BANAYAN: His
name is Connor.
I reached out to him.
I wrote him this long message.
And that really touched me.
And so I read that
one a month ago.
And last night I read one
those really powerful.
It was from a woman who--
she wrote me and explained that
she was in an abusive marriage.
And she ended up
escaping from her husband
when her two kids were infants.
And she wrote that
reading "The Third Door"
felt like the universe
was giving her
exactly what she needed.
And it brought her to tears.
And the reason that one touched
me so deeply is truthfully I
wrote the book for Connor,
for the 19-year-old,
because that was the
struggle I was going through.
And to hear last night
that it was helping people
who are suffering from something
I can't even imagine just
was fulfilling in a way
that's hard to explain.
SPEAKER: Please.
JASON: I don't really know
how to segue from that one.
So I haven't finished
the book yet.
And you may have answered this.
But the Barack Obama kind
of who you want to interview
made we think is there--
out of all the list
that people that you've
wanted to interview--
and you've done
all this research.
You get through the research.
And you're like, I don't
really know what to ask them.
I mean has that happened?
Like--
ALEX BANAYAN: First of
all, what's your name?
JASON: Jason.
ALEX BANAYAN: Everyone, give
Jason a round of applause.
[APPLAUSE]
Give him some love.
So Jason, that's
actually the first time
I've ever been asked that.
And it's something I
thought about a lot.
So I'm very impressed.
It's a really good question.
SPEAKER: Which is important--
to have a good question.
ALEX BANAYAN: No,
it was really good.
When I hear a question that
I've never been asked before,
I'm very impressed, because
it's very insightful.
And the answer is yes.
There have been people who I've
researched, who I was like--
fuck it.
I'll say the name.
It was Elon Musk.
You're writing a book
on successful people.
He's a natural person to float.
Look, he's done
remarkable things.
I read his biography.
I've watched his interviews.
And I was like, he's
done a pretty good job.
He sort of explained it.
And I've learned
that when it comes
to getting these
interviews for the book
I personally need to have this
immense fire in my curiosity
to get these interviews,
because it's not
like I can just call up
someone and get the interviews.
So I need to be really
passionate to make it happen.
For like you said Lady
Gaga it took three years
to make it happen.
So with Elon Musk I read it.
And I was like, you
know, his biography
did a pretty good job.
[LAUGHTER]
And I sort of just let it be.
I like sent a message.
But at that point I
sort of just let it be.
That's a great question.
SPEAKER: You speak at
a lot of corporations.
We talked about that earlier.
What do you tell people
in corporate America?
What's the message?
You're sitting at Google.
What's the message for
people at big companies?
How can we apply the
third door mindset?
ALEX BANAYAN: So I've
realized that when
you're in a corporation--
and it's been fun
in the book tour,
because you sort of just get
thrown across the spectrum
of corporate America.
From IBM to Snapchat you
sort of see the whole system.
And what I've realized is that
one of the biggest things that
holds people back
in their jobs--
no matter what
level they're at--
and I've been hearing this from
C-Suite to the intern level--
is there's a tremendous
amount of fear--
fear for trying
something new, fear
for reaching for a
new position, fear
for sort of rocking the boat.
And there's all these
ideas that exist
in the company, all this
entrepreneurial energy that
sort of gets tucked away.
And one of the
questions I get asked
most is like, how do
you become fearless?
Like that's like
everyone's thing.
They're like, how do
you become fearless?
And when I started
this mission I,
too, was filled with
tremendous amounts of fear.
I was like the scaredest
kid in the world.
I had like a nightlight
until I was 12.
You know I was that kid.
And what I've learned is
that all the people who
I interviewed when
they were starting out
were actually tremendously
scared in the beginning.
So it's not fearlessness that
you should be looking for.
It's courage.
And the difference is
incredibly important.
You know fearlessness is
jumping off of the cliff
and not thinking about it.
That's idiotic in my opinion.
Courage, on the other hand,
is acknowledging your fear,
analyzing the consequences,
and deciding you still
care so much about it you're
going to take one step forward
anyway.
So that's the biggest
thing I could share.
SPEAKER: And-- oh, question.
ZIJI: Hi, so you talk about
when you were at your low point.
And then you just kept going.
And eventually you succeeded.
But there are some times
that the road is just not
going anywhere.
And some projects are
just going to fail.
And then you just have
to cut it at some point.
And how do tell the
difference of the two?
Like when do you
decide, OK, this
is just not going anywhere.
I have to end it.
And how do you decide
like, OK, maybe this
could succeed someday and
that I will just keep going?
And my second question
is, now that you
have written the book,
what's the next for you?
And what's your next goal?
ALEX BANAYAN: Great,
and what was your name?
ZIJI: Ziji.
ALEX BANAYAN: Everyone give
her a round of applause.
[APPLAUSE]
Give her some love.
So that's another
great question,
because that's a
big question I had,
because when I was just getting
in that eight-month rejection
from Warren Buffett when
there was no hope in sight,
the natural thought is, at what
point do you cut your losses,
because there are some
things that just don't work.
So I ended up doing an interview
with one of the greatest
inventors alive today.
His name is Dean Kamen.
And Dean Kamen invented the
segway and the bionic pump
and the iBOT electric
wheelchair and the insulin
pump and the Slingshot
water purifier.
And I'm sitting down
with Dean Kamen,
a guy who has 400
patents to his name.
Bill Gates goes to
Dean Kamen for advice.
And I'm sitting down
with Dean Kamen.
And I had that exact question.
At what point is it
the right time to stop?
8 months, 10 months--
you know when do you stop?
And he's like-- he's like,
you want to know the answer?
And I'm like, yeah.
He leans forward.
And he's holding this
like dark cup of tea.
And he leans forward.
And he's like, I don't know.
[LAUGHTER]
And I'm like, are you
fucking kidding me?
Like, I came all the
way to New Hampshire
to talk to the
smartest guy on Earth.
And your answer is I don't know?
And you know he leans
back in his chair.
And he actually
looks sort of sad.
And he's like, you know, that's
the thing that keeps me up
at night the most.
And you know, we
ended up talking
about this for a long time.
And his answer was
incredibly profound.
But at the end, you know I
wanted something practical,
something that I could
almost use as a checklist.
So when I'm in that situation
I can refer back to.
So I sort of kept prodding
him until he came up
with this checklist of three
things to ask yourself.
When you feel you're at
your-- the end of the rope
and there's no hope
in sight, these
are three things
you can ask yourself
to decide whether
it's time to give up
or if you should keep going.
And these are the three things.
The first thing is-- and
he's a mechanical engineer.
So his first piece of advice
was go back to first principles.
Ask yourself, is it physically
impossible for this thing
to work.
Does it defy the laws
of Newtonian physics,
the laws of thermodynamics?
Try to prove yourself
it's impossible.
Let's say I wanted
to interview Gandhi.
You know the laws of physics
and biology say it's impossible.
So ask yourself that.
But for me with Warren Buffett
he does interviews with people
all the time.
So that one didn't work.
So he gave me a second thing.
He said, the second
thing you should
ask yourself is before you go
and try it 150 different times,
take a step back.
And look at all
the different kinds
of solutions,
because what you'll
realize is although some people
say persistence is the key
and just use brute force, Dean
Kamen was like brute force
is for brutes.
It's not the best strategy.
So if you step back instead of
banging on 1 door 100 times,
look at the different
kinds of doors.
OK, we can try the kitchen.
We can try talking
to the bouncer.
We can try the window.
And then try one of each.
And before you go knocking on
1 100 times, try one of each.
And see if you can make
any progress there.
So that was the second
piece of advice.
And this third was the most
interesting in my opinion.
He told me a story
of the STEM crisis
in America, the science
and technology problem.
And when it came to
education, a decade ago
people were thinking this as a
natural education crisis, where
the answer was, let's hire more
teachers, update curriculum.
But still we weren't making
the progress we needed to make.
So Dean Kamen
thought, what if this
isn't an education problem?
What if this is a
cultural problem?
And as soon as he
reframed the question,
new answers began to appear.
And he created a thing
called First Robotics, where
he created this program where
scientists became celebrities.
Engineering became a sport.
And it became this phenomenon
having impacted millions
of students across America.
SPEAKER: Engineers are cool.
ALEX BANAYAN:
Engineers are cool.
And they are.
And what Dean Kamen said
is that the third thing
on the checklist is
sometimes the most important,
where if you
reframe the problem,
sometimes that opens you up
to new kinds of solutions.
So those are three
things I could give you.
SPEAKER: Do we have any
other questions right now?
If not, I have questions.
Oh, we do.
ALEX BANAYAN: And
really bring the heat.
[LAUGHTER]
AUDIENCE: All
right, I'll try to.
So I mean I was just curious
like in all the interviews
that are done were
there any sort of themes
that you might have observed--
[INAUDIBLE] maybe
it's just me thinking
and I didn't want to write
about that in the book.
So I'm curious about
things like that
that you thought
it may be a theme.
But it might not be.
So in the end you decided
to not write about them.
ALEX BANAYAN: Like people
who I interviewed who
I ended up not writing about?
AUDIENCE: Not people,
but I mean say--
and full disclosure I
haven't read the book--
I just have a jist
from the talk.
But I mean like are
there any themes
that you observe in the people
that you interviewed that you
weren't sure if that's a trend
or maybe just that's maybe
some eccentricity.
Or maybe a few people that
you thought, OK, maybe it's
not a trend.
And so you can't aggregate that
or like some data point right?
But at the same time it was
on the back of my mind, like,
could that be possible that
somebody who was successful
might also have this
side of an attribute?
So I'm just curious.
The answer could be no, as well.
I mean--
ALEX BANAYAN: Yeah, when
it came to different trends
and different teams of
people that I looked at--
the good thing about this
book is that you naturally--
it had its own
filtration process
that I didn't even
know about, where
the people who
might-- and you talked
about this in the beginning--
the dream university.
So the way the list
of people came about,
the people who I set
out to interview--
you know, when I started
the book, I got--
I won "The Price Is Right."
I got the money
from the sailboat.
And I asked myself, who are
the most successful people?
And I don't really believe
in that whole Forbes
algorithm of--
I don't believe you can have
an algorithm for success.
So I called my best friends.
And I told them to
come over one night.
And I said, guys, if we can
make our dream university,
who would be our professors?
And they started
shouting out answers.
Bill Gates would teach business.
Steve Wozniak would
teach computer science.
Buffett would teach finance.
And that went on.
And that's what
created our list.
And what I've noticed
about that list
is that there are
successful people out there
that weren't on that list.
So when I looked back at it the
people we were curious about
were the ones who weren't
handed it from the beginning.
They weren't-- and there's
nothing wrong with that--
working in a family business
or doing something like that.
But we were interested in
someone who had to start from--
Peter Thiel calls zero to one--
the people who went
from zero to one.
And during all the
interviews what
I've realized is there was a ton
of different tactics they used.
And I actually included
them all in the book.
But the overall
themes were the same.
AUDIENCE: Thank you.
ALEX BANAYAN: Yeah.
AUDIENCE: Hi, I
wanted to follow up
on a question that
was asked earlier.
What is next for you?
Is there a burning
question that you have
or a new idea that
you want to pursue?
ALEX BANAYAN: So what's next?
So I've been working on
this for seven years.
And seven years went into it.
And then I'm one
month out of it.
So it's still very new.
What I've realized, though, is--
I heard this story
somewhere in my research.
I can't even remember
where I read it.
But it's the story
of a teacher who was
teaching for Teach for America.
And she was teaching at
a school in Baltimore.
It was a really
rough neighborhood
at a really tough school.
And she's teaching about I
think a third grade class.
She realized all right, these
kids need some inspiration.
So she's like, all
right, today instead
of doing our math
exercise, I'm going
to pass out sheets of paper.
And everyone is going to draw
a picture of the thing you
want to be when you grow up.
So she passes out the paper.
And all the kids are drawing.
And there was this
one boy sitting
in the back of the class who
wouldn't pick up a crayon.
And the teacher was concerned.
And he had a sad
look on his face.
But about halfway through
his eyes light up.
And he starts drawing.
And at the end of the
class, the teacher
collects all the papers.
And the kids go home.
She's going through them.
And she sees that kid had drew
a picture of a pizza delivery
man.
And she was concerned.
So she called the
mother that night.
And the mother said
she wasn't surprised.
She said that the
only male figure
in his life who's not
in jail or on drugs
is his uncle who delivers pizza.
And what that story taught me
is that young people will always
reach for the highest
branch they see is possible.
So it's our job, whether
it's schools or families
or the media or technology
to illuminate more branches.
And that's the mission
moving forward.
As the book evolves--
we're on month 1, month
2 of this mission--
as it evolves what
I'm committed to
is illuminating more branches.
SPEAKER: That's amazing.
Well, you have an
amazing memory.
And the book's great.
Let's give you a big round of
applause for you being here.
Thank you.
Everybody, please go out.
Buy "The Third Door."
It's a phenomenal read.
You won't regret it.
Thanks so much.
