Famine devastated North Korea
Ji Seong-ho knew he needed to get out
But what he found in China, was even worse
Hi, welcome to China Uncensored,
I’m Chris Chappell.
I bet you don’t usually think a place could
be
much worse than North Korea.
But for many North Korean refugees,
life in China is a nightmare.
They have no rights, no voice,
and the women are often sold into sex slavery.
But North Korean defector Ji Seong-ho is trying
to change that.
And there’s a way you can help.
I sat down with him on the sidelines
of the 2018 Oslo Freedom Forum in Taiwan.
Thank you very much for joining me today.
So, you were a child when the famine hit North
Korea.
What was the country like during that time?
If I describe it in one sentence,
it was like we were hit by a tremendous natural
disaster, or a war.
I could see dead corpses who died from starvation
on the street.
Houses were destroyed because people who were
too hungry to go find fuel,
burned parts of their homes for warmth.
I also saw many children who were suffering
from malnutrition.
Getting something to eat was the only thing
on everyone’s mind.
Can you tell us how you lost your arm and
your leg?
I couldn't find any food in the mine where
I was living,
so I had to go searching somewhere else for
something to eat.
I mean, I couldn’t survive by eating only
grass and tree bark.
One way to find food was to steal some coal
from the trains,
and then sell the coal in town.
I could buy a little bit of dried corn with
that money.
Well, one day, I was hanging onto a train
train headed downtown,
but I lost consciousness because I was so
hungry, and I fell off.
The train ran over my arm and leg.
That’s how I lost my arm and leg and that’s
how I became crippled.
When did you realize you needed to leave North
Korea?
Even after so many years of famine, the situation
wasn’t getting any better.
I learned that the North Korean government
was lying about the situation
when I visited China to find some food.
I started to think that I have to leave North
Korea to survive.
In 2006, I made up my mind to escape,
even though I knew it would be almost impossible.
China is a critical stop for North Korean
refugees.
How are they treated in China?
China is a horrible country for North Korean
refugees.
 
If they make one mistake in China,
it can lead to their death by Chinese police.
It’s ironic since they escape North Korea
in order to survive,
but end up facing death in China anyway.
Some refugees just want to get some food and
go back to North Korea,
and some refugees want to go to South Korea
to seek freedom.
So many people got arrested and sent back
to North Korea.
So many people got killed and thrown in prison
in North Korea
after they were sent back.
That's why when we think of China,
we think of a country of terrible pain.
What was your experience like getting out
of China?
Is there like some kind of underground railroad
to help North Korean refugees escape?
There is no underground railroad system for
North Korean refugees
to get out of China.
Since I couldn't go directly to South Korea
from China,
I tried to get out of China by going through
its neighboring countries.
I used every possible type of transportation.
And sometimes I had to walk for a long time.
I had to get out of China.
If I got arrested in China,
I knew I would be sent back to North Korea
and would be killed there.
I had to travel in China covertly,
and it took a long time to arrive in Southeast
Asian countries.
Can you give us some more detail of that?
Like, especially your experience?
Because I didn't have any ID in China,
I couldn't buy any kinds of tickets
for transportation on my own.
There are some people who
will help you to get to South Korea if you
pay them.
I got help from them here and there.
They bought me a ticket when I needed one.
 
They helped me a lot.
I had to travel to certain places to be safe
sometimes.
Sometimes they provided a taxi for me.
I used a lot of different ways to move around
in China.
And when you weren’t riding a train,
you were on crutches for the rest of the time,
correct?
That’s right, I had to use crutches all
the time,
and it was giving me more problems because
of it.
 
There is no one in China who uses such run-down,
hand-made crutches like mine.
Chinese people had artificial legs or nice
crutches.
I had no hand and tied some old wooden crutches
from North Korea to my arm.
 
A lot of people were looking at me funny.
Since I don't speak Chinese,
I was very afraid.
If any of them were to tell the Chinese police
about me,
I would get questioned.
Since I don't speak Chinese,
they would know I was a North Korean refugee,
and send me back to North Korea.
The very idea terrified me.
So, what was your process like?
You went from North Korea, to northeast China.
How did you go through China,
and how did you end up in South Korea?
I crossed the Tumen river from North Korea
and tried to move
to a safe place in China.
But, I encountered a lot of Chinese military
at the border,
and I had to hide from them for many days.
When I arrived in Yanbian,
I had to worry about the next route to travel,
and other problems I might face in the future.
After going through few big cities in China,
I finally ended up at the border of Laos.
I traveled through Laos, Myanmar, Thailand,
and finally I was able to get to South Korea.
The most dangerous country was China.
If they arrest any North Korean refugees,
they send them back to North Korea.
I was so scared, I couldn't even eat food.
I lost so much weight and became weak.
China was scarier than North Korea?
Yes.
Because it was bad enough to
escape from North Korea to begin with,
but If I got caught, and was sent back,
I would be in a worse situation than before
I escaped.
Every time I heard a sound of police cars,
sirens,
or even the sound of an ambulance,
my heart started pounding so hard.
I was so scared,
I couldn't hide my fear from showing.
You created the group Now Action Unity for
Human Rights
to help North Korean defectors.
What have you accomplished?
A lot of North Korean female refugees are
kidnapped
and sold in the Chinese countryside.
They are denied human rights,
resold over and over again,
and abused by their husbands.
And they suffer through all this pain only
because they are from North Korea.
They are in a vulnerable situation because
everyone in China knows
if they get caught and sent back to North
Korea,
they will be killed.
I am trying to rescue these women and bring
them to South Korea.
A lot of women were able to come to South
Korea and find their freedom.
Sometimes we bring the children who were born
in China
and unite them with their mother.
Even a Chinese husband—
if they had a good relationship—
can be united with the family.
We also try to let the international society
to know
the terrible human rights violations happening
in North Korea.
We provide information through radio broadcasting
into North Korea to induce the change within
the society.
We try to educate South Koreans about
the terrible human rights violations in North
Korea.
We also try to educate people in South Korea
to prepare for democracy
in North Korea after the reunification of
the two Koreas.
How, specifically, do you get a North Korean
woman out of China?
I hope you can understand that I cannot tell
you all the details,
since we still use the same routes to rescue
women from China.
There are so many women who are still waiting
to be rescued and freed.
It is a fact that many North Korean refugee
women
are still in pain and their human rights are
violated in China.
Unfortunately, we can not help every woman
who contacts us for help.
It costs money, approximately 2000 dollars
per woman.
We have to give them food, clothing , transportation,
and sometimes shelter on their way to South
Korea.
We are trying to raise funds so we can rescue
more women.
Although there are too many requests for help
coming from all over China,
we have to focus on women,
whose situation is worse than others.
How do you feel about how President Trump
has handled North Korea?
I think he is doing a great job.
I think it’s president Trump
who backed North Korea into the difficult
situation it’s in right now.
His policy of strong sanctions forced
North Korea to come out from their cocoon.
I think time is on president Trump's side.
The situation in North Korea is bad.
It is getting worse for Kim Jong Un.
Kim Jong Un has to show
some positive results to North Korean people
such as plenty of food.
Instead, because of sanctions,
they have to suffer economic difficulties,
and they are irritated and upset now.
If this kind of situation lasts longer,
North Korean people will be unhappy with their
government
and be resentful toward Kim Jong Un.
Kim Jong Un needs to get the sanctions removed
as soon as possible,
and president Trump can insist on denuclearization
and improvement of human rights
while maintaining these strong sanctions on
North Korea.
I think he is doing a good job.
What can people around the world do to help
the people of North Korea?
Specifically I’m kind of interested in the
Flash Drives for Freedom.
People are changing in North Korea.
 
People became more curious when the government
tried to control things and shut down influences
from outside world.
We are sending USB flash drives to North Korea,
because we believe information will change
people.
People in North Korea are starting to realize
that they are on a wrong path.
They are starting to be aware of human rights
violations in North Korea.
North Korean diplomats and high ranking party
officials
already know they are doing something wrong
because
they are more exposed to the outside world.
People inside North Korea get educated on
human rights,
and democracy, and individual rights by the
information
contained in these USB drives that we’re
sending.
That is why it’s very important
to keep sending USB drives to North Korea.
I believe more information will bring about
real change for North Korean people.
I understand you still carry the same crutches
you escaped from North Korea with.
Why do you do that?
Every time I look at my old crutches,
it reminds me of the terrible time I had to
endure in North Korea,
and it makes me cry.
However, it is a good reminder of the fact
that there are still
some people like me in North Korea who are
oppressed
by the North Korean regime.
There are so many people in North Korea who
are still suffering,
and the government is the cause of their pain.
I think of my old crutches as a symbol
of freedom for the people in North Korea.
It is a good reminder of why we have to keep
pointing out the human rights violations in
North Korea
and keep pressuring the North Korean regime
to change.
I will keep carrying my old crutches until
the day when North Korea
is changed and the people get their freedom.
Thank you very much for joining me today.
Thank you.
