[John] I'm John Paradis
senior editor and writer for the VA New 
England healthcare system
And I'm here at the Jamaica Plain campus of the VA 
Boston healthcare system, and I'm with Dr. Mark Logue
He's an Army veteran
and a statistician with the US Department of 
Veterans Affairs and the National Center for PTSD
here at the VA Boston healthcare system
his research interests include the
 genetics of brain disorders such as PTSD, and
Alzheimer's disease, and anxiety.
He's also an associate professor of psychiatry
 at the Boston University School of Medicine
He has published works
 in dozens of academic journals
Some of his research involves the 
VA's Million Veteran Program.
Mark, welcome to our program.
[Mark] Hi, glad to be here.
[John] Mark, well, why don't we we start off 
by if you could talk about your service
in the United States Army.
[Mark] Great. So,
right after high school, I was looking for 
someplace, some way to pay for college
so I thought it would be 
good to join the Army Reserves,
and I signed up and did basic training 
and then partway through my
Sophomore year at University of Oregon,
my reserve unit got called up 
because of Operation Desert Shield
and
I actually went to Germany
 for three months.
I worked in medical supply
and I worked in medical supply
in Germany helping get 
a hospital ready for
casualties that would be sent back and
after three months, I was discharged
 and went back to my reserve unit.
[John] And your time in in Germany, 
in Stuttgart in particular,
during Desert Storm, Desert Shield with that,
what did that involve 
and what did that include
[Mark] So, we were really 
at that point trying to,
the effort was to increase 
the capacity of the hospital,
so they were taking rooms that were 
just on the campus and on the base
used for other things 
and and bringing in beds
and trying to set it up to 
just increase the capacity.
So I worked on that primarily, 
and then for a little bit of that time
I actually worked in a warehouse in 
Permasens near the French border as well.
Again, just trying to help process 
the medical supplies coming in,
just in case there were a lot of casualties
in Desert Storm, Desert Shield.
[John] And then you came back home 
to the Pacific Northwest,
you remained in the 
Army Reserves,
you separated in what year?
[Mark] Uh, I can't remember 
when I was officially done,
but then I moved from Oregon
to Iowa to do graduate work
[John] Okay, so early 90s timeframe
[Mark] Yeah, mid 90s
[John] And what piqued your interest in going into this 
academic career field that you're in?
[Mark] So I my undergraduate degree
 was in mathematics and
statistics seemed to be a good way to apply
those mathematics to real-world problems,
so I like that it that had applicability 
and it helped me understand
what I read in the newspaper 
and it helped me
deal with real data and maybe address real 
problems like health issues and things that
I thought just math theory won't let you do.
[John] Sure. Was your time in the army, 
was there kind of any any linkage to
to what you're pursuing at the time
with your medical kind of a medical field 
and medical corps background or?
[Mark] You know that may have played a role 
primarily, it helped me get through college.
So it allowed me to be able to
keep working on my degree.
[John] Sure. That's important.
[Mark] But I don't think...
I initially didn't start 
working in PTSD.
I started working more in 
general anxiety disorders,
and when I moved to Boston, 
I started working in Alzheimer disease,
and then I made connections with a few 
people at the National Center for PTSD here
and we started working on a
genetic study for PTSD they had data 
and they needed help analyzing it.
I think that paper
 was very successful
and it just snowballed from there and I became 
more and more involved in PTSD research.
[John] So your work is on genetics,
particularly as it applies to those three areas 
PTSD, Alzheimers, and anxiety?
[Mark] Yeah, mostly my work focuses around there.
So we studied the genetics at multiple different levels.
So there's there's the
genetics, genetic variants you 
inherit from your parents.
That's one level of genetics; then
we also look in the cells
and look at what genes are turned
 off and on in the blood and brain tissue
so we're looking at multiple levels of what's
happening with the genes of the genetics.
[John] What's the potential impact
from the work that you're doing in the work 
with the team here at VA Boston with veterans
[Mark] So, there there's 
one level when we're
talking about things you 
inherit from your parents
and that might be useful for identifying 
people at increased risk for forgetting.
PTSD, or Alzheimer's, or age-related disorders.
There's another level when 
you're talking about studying the
the epigenetics or 
the gene expression,
is that that's measuring 
something that's going on
potentially right then in the person 
and so that gives the possibility of
doing
diagnostics if at some point
 based on on these
genetic assays.
Also there there may be
genetics may have implications
for treatment so,
they're there cancer drugs 
right now that are
targeted for
cancer cells that have 
a specific genetic profile
and maybe someday if people 
have a certain kind of PTSD or depression
We can find the 
best drug for them quicker
or the best method for treatment.
[John] So a lot of veterans
certainly know the US Department of 
Veterans Affairs for our health care,
right and in the 
clinical care that we provide.
But the research arm 
of the VA is,
is known throughout the world as as a leading 
cutting edge with a lot of the research.
Is that also applied 
in this in this area?
As far as the PTS work 
that's being done within the VA.
[Mark] Yeah.
I certainly knew research 
was going on at the VA
but didn't know 
until I joined how
extensive that was and and how
much impact it has I mean, it's it's impressive.
So there there are many different 
research groups across the country,
there's also the big genetic push 
within the VA right now
as sort of embodied in the Million Veterans Program.
Which is an amazing
project where
hundreds of thousands of veterans
 have volunteered
to
submit DNA samples
and
also to allow those to be studied by
researchers like me
have those samples linked to their medical records
and fill out surveys and 
health questionnaires
that can be
examined and so we can look for genetic 
effects for these disorders and and it's
Amazing in that it's it's one of the
 largest bio banks of its kind in the world
there are there only 
a few others like
the Thousand Genomes Project and well not
UK biobank, sorry not 
Thousand Genomes, UK biobank
and a few other projects that are
 that are on the same scale.
There's a few more coming online,
but it's it's really impressive to have this
resource built up within the VA system and,
and allow us to do genetic studies on things
that are of particular interest to veterans
[John] How does a veteran get?
Get involved with a million veteran program, and 
and how does that work as far as the process?
[Mark] So I've never been involved in collection, 
but as I understand it there are
collection arms at many VA's across the country 
and desks out or you might see a sign for MVP
And there are people 
out there to talk to you
and and and help you sort of navigate
joining and it just involves taking a blood sample, 
which gets sent to the data
to a core laboratory that's here
 at the Boston VA and
Filling out consent forms and
questionnaires
about
prior studies and then
then that data is amassed and
people like me who have 
an approved project
who have got a grant submitted to study 
something specific and in
the MVP dataset can can access it.
[John] Is there anything 
that you've seen so far with?
within your work 
within a scope of work that
You can share or anything that
 is compelling at the moment
[Mark] So my project is has mostly
just got started in the last year. 
So we're still
collating all the data from 
the medical records particularly
my projects to look at
Alzheimer disease genes
than the known risk variance 
from from other things
and look to see if 
the impact of those genes is
modulated or changed by exposure to 
head injuries and TBI's or combat stress.
So it's looking at if
Alzheimer disease risk is 
increased by interactions
between those genes 
and severe combat stress.
And
We don't have results yet.
We're;
when you're working with data
like this, you have to...
a lot of our data comes
from the medical record.
And that involves actually
going through the medical record
in an automated way 
because you can't read through
500,000 peoples medical
record and decide
this person has Alzheimer disease.
This person doesn't individually,
you have to come up with some 
computer algorithm to decide who has
Alzheimer disease,
who's has mild cognitive
impairment,
who has some other kind of dementia,
and and validate that,
show that your your algorithm
is working very well
and so we're in that stage 
where we're developing that
and we've just got a few preliminary 
diagnosis now with with MCI,
Mild Cognitive Impairment, 
so a precursor stage to Alzheimer disease
and these,
the Alzheimer disease genes and
at least we're showing so far that
the known Alzheimer 
disease genes are increasing
risk for mild cognitive 
impairment in the veterans.
[John] So for the post 9/11 generation,
certainly traumatic brain injury 
is one of the signature
injuries and wounds of war
for the Iraq Afghanistan veterans
a lot of the research you're doing
is looking at kind of the
intersections if you will between
traumatic brain injury, PTS
and
anxiety disorders,
depression, how they 
all possibly connect and
[Mark] Yeah, that's that's the goal like
Now we're of course mostly 
looking at older veterans
if we're looking for things 
like Alzheimer disease
but hopefully we things
we find in those veterans
will help the younger 
veterans that are
Maybe new to the VA system now
[John] For the Million Veteran Program 
is that apply to
to veterans of 
of all errors and in
generations?
[Mark] Yeah, I think all veterans
receiving care at the VA system
are eligible to join MVP
and I think there's a
pilot program and
push now to expand 
beyond that to veterans who
who aren't specifically 
getting care at the VA
Right now older veterans 
are over-represented
in the MVP
which is in some ways
good for my research
looking at Alzheimer 
disease and dementia
but
In other ways we'd like 
to see the younger veterans too
and I think there's 
a push to get them
enrolled as well and 
the more different kinds of people
you can see in the 
bio bank, you know
The more you're sure that 
your results are representative.
[John] So you work in in 
arguably the research hub
for the US Department of 
Veterans Affairs,
you know, VA Boston,
believed as more 
research of any
VA Medical Center 
across the country
How does that make you feel
when you come into work
every day knowing that
you're coming into a place that
You have have 
colleagues that are
working towards the
same common purpose to
help veterans and it 
may not be seen immediately
from some of the work 
that you've described but
Longitudinally, over time,
hoping to see the reaping 
the benefits of the good work
that you're doing.
[Mark] I I think this is just a
great environment to do research.
It's it's amazing how many 
different things are going on here
and the opportunities 
for somebody like me
that's looking for for a new
say data to examine
You know, I was 
immediately, you know
people were knocking on
my door when I showed up and
Asked me if I wanted to 
be involved in studies,
and if I had tried 
this new kind of data,
And so there's just so many 
opportunities to get involved
which I thought was exciting.
We've got the MVP,
a lot of the the 
leadership is here,
and as I said, the 
core lab is downstairs.
There's also the PTSD 
brain bank is here.
A lot of some of those 
people right down the hall
from my office which 
has led to other opportunities.
So the research community 
and the opportunities are great.
It's also I think
very interesting to be
Housed at the VA and 
coming in every day
you see veterans in the 
lobby and in the in the elevator
and
I think that's
Motivating compared to being 
just in your university office all day
and only seeing other researchers.
We see people we're trying to help
on the elevator and the cafeteria 
when we're having lunch so it
I think that's actually 
been another good
Reason I'm happy that I 
came to the VA to do research.
[John] Can you describe some 
of the collaboration work
with with the VA here in Boston?
You're on the faculty at Boston University,
some of the other organizations, 
agencies, academic affiliations,
and how that all plays into the 
research work that you do here.
[Mark] Yeah, so I
came from Boston University 
School of Medicine and then
Joined this full-time and still 
keep an affiliation there.
The work I do here is 
primarily with people in the
National Center for PTSD 
behavioral sciences division.
But we have collaborations 
with other VA centers that
the Track study for which studies,
it's a neuroimaging study of
veterans with TBI (traumatic 
brain injury) so that's just downstairs
so we do a lot of work with them 
and looking at at the veterans
with TBI and neuroimaging and
There's also as I mentioned 
the PTSD brain bank,
we have a project collaborating 
with them and then there's MVP.
So there's
My work reaches out to a lot 
of other groups within the VA.
Then there's also a large
genomics effort that's 
going on in the world
sort of spearheaded by a group called
the Psychiatric Genomics Consortium.
And there's a PTSD group within 
that consortium that's getting together
tens of thousands of 
samples outside the VA system
of just general population samples,
and trying to get 
large-scale analyses of
PTSD cases and controls there 
to try to find PTSD genes,
and we're involved in that as well.
Some of the studies I'm involved in,
I work to try to make sure 
veterans are represented in that
consortium and that veteran 
data is being analyzed,
and incorporating in the models 
being developed by those,
those groups.
[John] With all the work that you do 
here I imagine you get a lot of visitors
*laugh*
[Mark] I actually end up traveling 
more than I get visitors.
[John] Do you? [Mark] Yeah, I'm off 
meeting with people from
Duke to talk about 
neuro-imaging and,
Emory to talk about
epigenetic effects and,
I'm off at conferences quite a bit
and those are good places for these
For these large-scale collaborative 
efforts, there's meetings
before a lot of 
research conferences
to get all the people together 
and try to do work.
So
So, yeah
I'm out and about quite a bit meeting 
with these groups and getting my results.
[John] Would you say there 
is great interest right now
in academia to look at these 
areas of interest: PTS and
TBI and in the gene research that
[Mark] Absolutely. So,
I got involved in this I think around
2014-2015
and the growths been exponential 
in the amount there wasn't a genome-wide
Association scan for for PTSD genes 
before our paper came out
at that stage, and I think 
since then there's been like seven.
Including the the one from 
the Million Veterans Program,
which was the biggest so far.
So it all kind of kicked 
off and snowballed
and then the working groups started 
forming pretty much right after that.
So it's
it's a
a lot of active collaborations going on now 
in this area and TBI especially as well.
[John] So I think for us as veterans 
that's really reassuring
to know that our nation has 
taken such great interest in this
you know for all those of 
us that have served
that there are folks very 
smart intelligent people that
are looking at all the different
consequences from war
with the hope and goal the result that 
it'll improve care and our quality of life,
so we all live long long good lives.
That must make you feel great
If from a from an Army soldier and now 
working for the for the federal VA.
[Mark] Oh, thank you, you know 
that's great to hear. I'm
you know, I
you write papers and you 
work away on this stuff and
you know, that's the ultimate 
goal and the hope
is that someday the work you're 
doing will have an impact and will be
translatable to care in the hospital
or lead to new knowledge 
about brain circuits or
molecular pathways that allow 
a new drug to to hit the market and
I think that's what we're 
all hoping to achieve.
[John] So this comes full circle from the 
time you left high school
[Mark] Yeah, it was it wasn't a planned path,
but in some ways it does seem like like I've come back around.
I was working in medical supply
you know, I was supporting
soldiers on the front 
line or you know trying to
and that was my goal 
in that job and then now
I'm at the VA
in some ways still trying to support soldiers 
maybe even some of the same ones
And help make their lives better and make things easier.
It wasn't the plan but it in some ways it felt
like
Coming back to the VA, 
I had a sense of the bureaucracy,
and being in the military, and the 
government, and the culture a
a little bit which which made it
feel a bit like a homecoming in some ways.
[John] Yeah. Sure. Sure
You know and I think also
I ask every veteran this question is:
Some of those early 
formative years that you've had,
I'm certain in the army have had
impact on you now, you know as far as just 
very basic things that we all learn
through our military service.
Discipline, right? Accountability, being on time
How has all those things worked for you throughout your career?
I mean, going certainly in a Ph.D program,
that takes an enormous 
amount of dedication
and incredible amount of 
discipline I would imagine?
[Mark] I think
some of the things you 
mentioned definitely.
The accountability, being 
on time, that's sort of just
the sense that you're
don't have a normal job and that your actions have consequences,
so you just need to get the job done.
That's the goal that sense
definitely stuck with me in many ways.
And in other odd little ways,
you know, there in basic training
you're trained to check your
dog tags and your
rifle moving, before you move 
from one place to the next
I still you know before I leave work
Check my ID and my cell phone in my 
pocket, you know as I'm leaving the door
I'm like, "okay, I've got to do the check."
[John] I do the same thing
[Mark] you do too?
So definitely there's my military
experiences have shaped my,
my life in all sorts of ways.
Not to mention just the the great impact of 
the support for my education and,
The college afterwards that well that was a game changer.
[John] So for the
veterans that are out there or folks 
that are still active duty or serving,
looking at a
post career
with the VA,
how does that look and
what advice could you offer 
folks as they're looking at
perhaps going into the 
research arm of the VA?
[Mark] I just I can't say I had a plan to end 
up where I am today, so I don't,
I don't think I'm good at 
telling people how to plan
but I think it's good just 
to never stop learning.
I think look for opportunities to 
do new things, to try new things,
and to challenge yourself 
whether that's a college, or just
going to the local library, or
going and finding out, you know
what new restaurants are in your town?
Just being out in the world and and trying 
new things and getting out there leads to
opportunities you never knew were possible.
[John] Dr. Mark Logue, thank you for the 
important work that you're doing
VA statistician here at the 
VA Boston healthcare system.
On behalf of New England Veteran and the 
VA New England Health Care System,
thanks for all the work that you're doing.
[Mark] Oh, thanks for having me, this was really fun.
