[APPLAUSE]
JIMMY CHIN: Cool.
JONATHAN DIBLASI: So
we're chatting earlier--
so I want to start from
the beginning of where
"Free Solo" [DING] kind
of came to be, right?
I wanted to see-- oh, man, I
didn't mute my own phone, here.
AUDIENCE: [GROANS]
JONATHAN DIBLASI: So where did
the beginning of "Free Solo"
start?
Tell us kind of the story
that actually set in project--
into motion, the project.
JIMMY CHIN: Sure,
well, first of all, I
just wanted to say thank
you again for coming out.
And it means a lot
to see everybody
here and so enthusiastic.
I didn't necessarily make films
because I think about who's
going to see them so much.
But to see you all here is very
heartwarming, so thank you.
I did want to ask real
quickly, how many people
here have seen "Free Solo"?
Hm, OK, that's
pretty good, yeah.
Oh, some people
twice, that's great.
Awesome, well, yeah, so
this project, or the film,
I guess, to give
everybody some context,
was originally an idea that
I came up with about three,
four years ago after a
film I made called "Meru."
And just out of curiosity, how
many people here seem "Meru"?
Oh, that's pretty good, too.
OK, so it was really just a
character portrait of Alex.
And, really, his
accomplishments even before he
free-soloed El Cap were
already easily worthy
of making a film about.
And really, Alex as
a character is always
very interesting to me, because
I've been filming and shooting
in the mountain world and
kind of in the vertical space
and Yosemite for 20 years, and
also outside of that in the ski
and snowboard world,
base-jumping--
a lot of the different,
what people call,
extreme or adventure sports.
And many of the top
athletes at the top
of their careers over
the last 20 years,
so I've seen a lot of
different incredible athletes.
And Alex's was just
an anomaly, really,
among a peer group of anomalies.
And he really, really stood out
in the sense that what he did
was almost like he
had a superpower.
There are athletic feats that
are due to talent and training
and discipline and
people might be
predisposed to excel in that
particular respect of sport.
But what Alex was able
to do mentally just
seems not from this world.
JONATHAN DIBLASI: Yeah.
JIMMY CHIN: And
so I really wanted
to examine his
motivations and take
a deep dive in as a character.
JONATHAN DIBLASI: Yeah.
JIMMY CHIN: We didn't talk
about making it about El Cap.
Alex came to us with El Cap.
And my wife and
directing partner, Chai,
was, essentially,
hanging out with Alex
because I knew him very well.
I'd been traveling and
climbing with him for 10 years.
But she didn't
know him very well.
So she kind of was
just meeting with him
to get a sense of his
character and if he'd
be a good subject for
a future documentary.
And he told her-- he's
like, oh, that's--
I'm interested in
making a documentary.
That'd be great because I'm
thinking about free-soloing El
Cap.
And my wife--
JONATHAN DIBLASI: So
casual, not a big deal.
JIMMY CHIN: --is not a climber.
And she's from Manhattan
and she's like, oh, yeah,
that sounds great.
We really have something
to anchor the film,
and all this stuff.
So I called her that evening.
I was out on a shoot somewhere.
And I was like, how did your
conversations with Alex go?
What do you think?
She's like, he's a very
interesting character.
And it's great, he's going
to go free-solo El Cap.
And I almost fell
out of my chair
because I was like,
he said, what?
And he'd never spoken
to his friends about it.
And we were-- we didn't even
really talk about it amongst
ourselves, just because
it seemed like--
we didn't even want to
put it into the ether.
Because we could kind of tell
that everything he was doing
was leading to--
I mean, he'd basically
free soloed everything else
that was of significance,
except for El Cap.
So it's kind of out
there and we didn't even
really want to talk about it.
But so then when he
presented it to us,
we actually had to
take six months off.
We stepped away from
the film because we
weren't sure we wanted
to make that film.
JONATHAN DIBLASI:
Yeah, maybe you
can talk about that a little bit
more during those six months.
I mean, is some of that
the moral side of it?
JIMMY CHIN: Yeah.
JONATHAN DIBLASI: Should
we really film him?
Maybe talk a little
bit about that.
JIMMY CHIN: Yeah, I can do that.
So for those of you who've seen
it, part of the film kind of
tries to tackle
the ethical issues
around the making of the film.
And it's really, in
some ways, a dilemma
that documentary
filmmakers kind of
have to address no matter what.
It's if we are supposed to be
these objective observers when
we bring a camera
into a situation,
it necessarily changes
what you're observing.
And I think it's called
the Hawthorne Effect--
by observing something
you change the dynamic
within what you're observing.
So in this case, the issue
is a little more serious
because we were worried that
we could potentially either
push him into doing something
he wouldn't normally have done,
as some of us called
"Kodak courage."
Like, oh, someone's
got a camera.
I'm going to jump off this cliff
into water that's too shallow,
or whatever.
I mean--
JONATHAN DIBLASI: Yeah.
JIMMY CHIN: Or in an
even worst case scenario,
while we're filming
something would
happen in which we
ended up killing him.
JONATHAN DIBLASI: Hm.
JIMMY CHIN: And
so that obviously
took some time to
digest and we really
had to look at a
few big questions.
And I talked to a
lot of my mentors,
in particular, Jon Krakauer.
The author is a good friend
of mine, someone I look up to.
And he has a very good
perspective on life.
So I asked Jon about
it and he said, look,
is he going to do this
even if you don't film it?
And I said, yes, he very
likely will try to do this
even if we're not there.
And he said, do you think
this is an important moment?
Should it be documented
if he does do it?
And of course, as a
filmmaker, we're--
I said, yes.
And it also came down to do you
feel like you're in the best
position to do it safely?
Because if someone else--
do you feel like--
yeah, if you feel like
you're the best to do it.
And you're just spending
10 years with him
and really getting to
know him and having
a really good working
relationship and trust
between each other.
I know his
decision-making process.
I understand his
process in general
when it comes to free-soloing.
He's very methodical.
He's not-- people always
assume he's a daredevil,
like he is just
pulling off a stunt.
That, to him, is
totally unacceptable.
To him, it's a craft.
It's something that deserves
the attention and kind
of discipline of
craftsmanship, like a fine,
fine, craftsmanship.
And I know that he doesn't
climb for the camera.
And you certainly
don't become a climber
for the money and the fame.
JONATHAN DIBLASI: [LAUGHS] Yes.
JIMMY CHIN: You climb
because you love it.
And I know that he doesn't
care about being famous at all.
I mean, he just he just wants
to climb and do his thing.
And so having that
kind of pure intention
is also really important.
JONATHAN DIBLASI:
No, that's great.
So obviously, last 30
minutes of the film,
it's him actually climbing,
right, going up the route?
You're following along with him.
And when I first watched it--
probably most people--
you know that he makes it.
That's not a surprise.
It'd probably be terrible if you
didn't know that going into it,
right?
JIMMY CHIN: No, you know what?
I've heard that
people-- there are
people that have gone into
this film not knowing.
And I'm like, that
would be horrible.
JONATHAN DIBLASI: Yeah,
yeah, but so with that,
I think that takes a very--
a certain touch on the
editing and filming process
to still be able to build that
tension and excitement of--
we know the outcome, but my
hands are still sweating.
I still feel like
I want to throw up.
Maybe talk about the actual
post-production and filming
side of it.
What went into setting
it up to be what it is?
JIMMY CHIN: So I think
a couple of things--
I mean, we went into the film
knowing that we wanted to make
a vérité film, just to bring
people into the moment.
The scenes aren't constructed.
Vérité filmmaking is really
challenging because you have
to really spend so
much time filming,
and you're there constantly, to
the point where your subjects
eventually just kind of
surrender to the camera
and they don't care anymore.
You just kind of
disappear, and that's
kind of the best case scenario.
But you film with
someone for two years,
so you're just kind of
compiling these moments.
And the reason I'm
talking about it,
because it does come
back to your question,
is that in that
kind of filmmaking,
you're really trying to connect
people with your subject.
I mean, films, really, for me,
are about creating empathy.
And it's also about
transporting people into a world
that they might not know of.
In some cases, it allows
clarity on misperceptions
of a subject or a topic.
So these are all things
that we hope for,
but ultimately,
your hands aren't
going to sweat as
much if you don't
care about your character.
And so really, making the
film, a cinema vérité film,
was to get people to really
empathize with this character
who--
Alex is this-- essentially, he
was this very shy, scared kid
who was more scared to talk,
to ask for a climbing partner,
than he was to go free-soloing.
And that always struck
Chai and I about his story.
It's not like he
doesn't feel fear
and it's not like he's
completely unemotive.
Like inside somewhere in this
person is the same beating
heart we all have and has
the same kind of fears
and challenges that we
all face in our lives.
And I thought that
really getting people
to understand that he didn't
just become this superhero that
could free-solo El Cap.
He worked through all of
these fears methodically.
I mean, for those of you
that have seen the film,
there's this part
where he's like, I was
scared of different vegetables.
I didn't want to
eat them, but then I
made myself systematically
eat every vegetable
until I could eat vegetables.
He says, I didn't know
how to hug people.
I was 23 or 24 and
nobody ever hugged me.
But it seemed like people
enjoy hugging each other,
so I decided to go out and
figure out how to hug people.
And I was there for a
lot of that process.
I met him in his
early 20s and he
used to come up and be like--
and you'd feel his fingers
in the middle of your back,
just tapping you.
And you'd be like, Alex,
Alex, no, no, no, you
got to bring it in.
You got to-- [GRUNTS] like
heart to heart, double-hand,
like [SOUND EFFECT].
And he's just--
I think it's, really,
a beautiful story
about this person evolving.
And then he meets
Sanni, of course,
and falls in love while we're in
the middle of this production,
so--
JONATHAN DIBLASI: Yeah,
I mean, the whole film
feels so intimate as you're
watching him and Sanni as she's
leaving for that last time.
She's crying in the car.
I mean--
JIMMY CHIN: Yeah.
JONATHAN DIBLASI: --when
I was thinking about that,
I was like, man, that
would be terrible.
Is that the last time you're
ever going to hug him?
Like that--
JIMMY CHIN: Yeah, I mean,
those are heavy conversations.
When people are talking
about someone that they love
and maybe not ever
seeing them again.
And those are very
real conversations
that were captured.
But again, back to
your original question,
it really was about building
this connection with Alex
so that when he got there--
and then, of course,
we built up the climb,
all the kind of sections
of the climb that are
important in the narrative,
like the free blast and
the boulder problem.
If you've all-- for the people
that have seen the film,
I mean, everybody
knows that there's
a thumb-hold on the boulder
problem that's very scary.
But you have to kind of give
that a certain treatment,
as well, to--
JONATHAN DIBLASI:
Yeah, so as I said,
very intimate experience for
the viewers and for the crew.
And also I think an
intimate experience for you
and Chai with free-soloing.
So maybe prior--
I think you maybe have
free-soloed before, right?
You've free-soled some things?
JIMMY CHIN: Yeah.
JONATHAN DIBLASI: After
filming this project,
how has your views on free
solo maybe evolved or changed,
or are they the same?
JIMMY CHIN: Yeah,
so I guess really
it's about what are
my views on risk--
JONATHAN DIBLASI: Yeah.
JIMMY CHIN: Ultimately--
I have two small
children, two and five.
Very cute, even though
they jump up on my--
jump up and down on my
head in the morning when
I haven't had any sleep.
But they-- really, the film
didn't necessarily make
me change my evaluation or
assessment of risk for myself,
or my crew.
I think that happened years
ago before I had children.
Because a lot of
people say, does
having children change
your outlook on risk?
And really, I think
I had my change--
my outlook on risk change in
order for me to have children.
So I feel like I'm
pretty conservative,
even though most people
look at what I do and think
it's not conservative.
But I also think risk
is a relative thing.
So you know what might look
very, very scary to someone,
to me--
if I'm doing something, it could
look very scary to someone.
But for me, it feels
very in control and easy.
So--
JONATHAN DIBLASI: Yeah, so
there's a scene in the movie,
it's like two
minutes long, where
Alex is talking
through each pitch,
kind of shows him training
as he's practicing.
He's like, pitch one, talking
about the free blast slap,
going all the way up.
So he has it memorized, right?
He has it written down,
every single move,
every single thumb-hold
that he has to do.
And you also hint
at a little bit
in the film around
the performance
that yourself and the
film crew had to put in.
So I'm curious if you
can share what did--
what was your version of that?
Were you--
JIMMY CHIN: Yeah, yeah,
well, first of all, Alex
not only knew all
the moves perfectly,
on a lot of sections, he would
purposely do them incorrectly
so that if he ever
did make a mistake,
it would feel at least familiar.
So that's how detailed
he went into it.
He wore the same clothing the
entire time we were filming.
You would think it was because
of continuity, as a filmmaker,
but it is really because
he knew that that's
what he was going to wear the
day he was going to solo it,
and so he never wanted to have
to deal with that variable of,
well, waking up in the
morning being like,
do I want to wear the green
shirt or the red shirt?
Or on the climb, he'd be
very familiar with what
he's wearing, so he really loved
to reduce any sort of variables
on any sort of level.
But in terms of our crew,
the first criteria on this,
to be on the
high-angle team, was
that you had to be an
elite professional climber.
And just the kind
of volume of work
that we were going to be
doing in high-angle terrain
meant that I just
couldn't ever have
to worry about them making
bad decisions up there.
And so the other
criteria of course,
they had to be great
cinematographers,
meaning there's, like,
three people in the world
that I could call, all of
which I've known and worked
with for many years, as well.
They're kind of
like my crack team
that I go to if we have a
really heavy high-stakes shoot.
I'm sure when they see my
name come up on their phone,
they're like, oh, boy.
JONATHAN DIBLASI: Not again.
JIMMY CHIN: 'Cause we've done--
we've been all over the place.
But they are, in a lot
of ways, like Alex.
In the kind of upper
echelon of climbing,
it's all about the details.
It's all about
anticipating problems.
It's all about making
hard decisions when
the stakes are high,
and staying very calm
when things are very tenuous.
So the team, the makeup of
the team is hugely critical.
And they also were Alex's
friends, so that it had these--
there's an emotional layer to
it that it was also challenging,
as well as a technical layer.
The technical layer
obviously being
that we had to move very
quickly all the time.
They were professional climbers
meaning that not only were they
very fast, but
we've all spent time
on both sides of the camera,
so we're very sensitive
of what it feels like when
someone else is filming you,
how that works, and what we hate
about bad, slow camera teams.
So we were always
fast and on time
and never had to have him wait.
It always felt very
natural for him
whenever he was moving
because we know what it's
like to be on the other side.
And essentially, he
practiced for two years
to climb the route
and we spent two years
practicing shooting the climb.
So by the time he went
for it, our choreography
for how we were going to shoot
it was pinned down and tight.
JONATHAN DIBLASI:
Yeah, there's a part
where he's talking about
the boulder problem,
he says, autopilot.
JIMMY CHIN: Yeah.
JONATHAN DIBLASI:
And that was probably
the same thing for you guys.
JIMMY CHIN: Yeah, it
was the same for us
because you can't let your
mind wander into the what-ifs.
There's so much to think about.
You've got all your climbing
equipment and safety systems
and you're changing
lenses on the wall.
You're pulling focus.
You're double-checking
batteries.
You got to-- I mean--
and you're coiling all
these ropes, right?
So when you're
filming climbing, you
can't have ropes in
your frame, which
means that as he's climbing
up and you're moving up,
you're hauling ropes.
So if you start filming
1,500 feet down the wall,
and you're moving with him and
he climbs up that 1,500 feet,
well, you're carrying
1,500 feet of rope
by the time you get
to the top of that,
which is a lot of weight.
And so everything has to
be clipped off carefully,
because if one end of the
rope starts to unravel,
the whole thing can
shoot down the wall
and potentially knock off Alex.
So there's just tons of
stuff to think about.
And the directive was that you
just stay focused on your job.
Don't let your mind wander.
Don't forget to press record,
which totally happens,
it totally happens.
And so that was kind
of the technical side.
But the emotional
side was that we
had to be totally
neutral around Alex
because you couldn't be
encouraging or discouraging.
We were we had an
obligation as a filmmaker
to kind of maintain a
neutral space for him,
but still be his friend.
JONATHAN DIBLASI:
Yeah, so there's
also a part as he's preparing to
actually do the final one where
he succeeds in doing it,
where you're talking through
if something goes
wrong, what do we do?
And someone says,
just call 9-1-1.
Tell them what you know--
climber.
Did you have
discussions as a team,
or between Chai and
yourself, or with Alex--
and this maybe is
pretty morbid, but I'm
sure people are wondering--
if he had fallen, was it,
we're going to
scrap the project,
never release this,
never tell anybody.
Or is it, we tell the story?
JIMMY CHIN: Yeah, no, I mean we
had to address this before we
launched into production.
So these conversations were
happening three years ago.
What happens in the
worst case scenario?
We didn't necessarily
have a clear answer,
but we've addressed it.
And then the issue is
that you can't really
know what you're going to do
in regards to this situation
until you're in it.
Because I think
there'll be a lot
of inputs that tell you whether
or not it's appropriate or not.
And it's very sensitive to
a lot of different people,
stakeholders like his family.
And Alex would just be like, oh,
you guys, should just make it.
Because you would have
wasted all this time shooting
and there wouldn't be--
you might as well make--
I mean, he's very practical.
I think people who have
seen the film understand
he's very practical, pragmatic.
So I think it would have been
a very difficult film to make.
But we would have
probably made it,
and I certainly wouldn't trust
anybody else with the material.
But that being said,
we never anticipated--
if we had anticipated
that he was going to fall,
we would certainly never
have been in the project.
The whole idea was
that we trusted
that he would either turn
around or decide not to do it
before he would ever go up
there and try to force himself
to do it and fall off.
If I ever felt like
that was the case,
I would have run away
from the project, yeah.
JONATHAN DIBLASI: Yeah,
so your other projects
like "Meru," the other
things that you've worked on,
I feel like the risks are
obviously still there--
no oxygen, very cold.
But it feels potentially
less immediate
than something like an
incident with free-soloing.
JIMMY CHIN: Yeah.
JONATHAN DIBLASI: And
I think the motivation
behind a film and
the people in "Meru,"
climbing that, it seems
different than Alex's
motivation.
Or is it the same-- maybe
you can go into that?
JIMMY CHIN: I mean, I
think there are certainly
similarities in the sense
that these are both--
like free-soloing and alpine
climbing in the mountains,
at altitude, in the cold--
they're just not what most
people kind of imagine
being really fun, something that
you'd really want to pursue,
spend your life doing.
But sometimes you don't get to
choose what your passion is.
Sometimes it chooses you.
And if you're lucky, then maybe
you are a doctor or a lawyer,
or I don't know-- a hedge
fund manager, I don't know--
certainly not a climber.
But well, not certainly--
I have other opinions about it.
But it's when you find
something that gives you
meaning and purpose and it's
something that moves you
and there's nothing
else that can really
feed that like climbing
can, then in that sense,
they're very similar.
They're just what you love and
what you get meaning out of.
So to what degree should
we be pursuing that?
I mean, that's
probably up for debate.
But it is deeply satisfying.
And we call it conquistadors
of the useless--
you're chasing this thing
that probably doesn't
do that much for the world.
But it is about the pursuit
of perfection and excellence
and dreaming outside of
what you think is possible,
and really pushing yourself
in ways that you might have
been afraid of doing before.
JONATHAN DIBLASI: Yeah.
JIMMY CHIN: So it's a lot
about exploration, as well.
JONATHAN DIBLASI:
Yeah, and there's--
when Alex first tries and on the
free blast slab, he bails out.
After he's talking to Peter
Croft, and he's like, I bailed.
Peter's like, no, it's the
best thing you could have done.
But you can tell
on Alex's face he's
so disappointed in himself.
And he says, it sucks.
I just need it to end.
JIMMY CHIN: Yeah.
JONATHAN DIBLASI:
Like it's this goal
that he feels like
he can attain,
but it's still so far away.
And it's still like a year
until he actually did it.
JIMMY CHIN: Yeah.
JONATHAN DIBLASI: And
is that something that
was tough on your end to see?
JIMMY CHIN: Yeah, that was a
very difficult scene to film
because you're so--
we're also his friends.
The film aside, we
care deeply about Alex.
And when you see someone
who has a great dream
and they've put
so much into it--
I mean, really, he's been
putting in years and years.
In the back of his mind, he's
been thinking about this.
And to have him
really try and fail,
I mean, that's always
hard, as a friend, to see.
And so we felt a lot
of compassion for him.
But yet, then you had
to separate yourself
as a filmmaker and
film this awful moment
that he's just kind
of really distraught.
And you could see it
in his body language.
He's all--
JONATHAN DIBLASI: Hunched over.
JIMMY CHIN: --hunched
over and disappointed.
So those moments were
always difficult.
That was very difficult because
none of us wanted to film it.
I was really happy that our
vérité DP was there filming it
because we all wanted to hide.
But those are the
moments where you
know it's an important moment.
You have to capture it.
And it plays in the film.
JONATHAN DIBLASI: Yeah.
JIMMY CHIN: That's a
classic vérité moment,
where you can feel the moment.
Nobody has to explain to you
that he's disappointed in it,
or anything like that.
You can see it.
And that's like one of those
beautiful moments that I think
about vérité filmmaking.
JONATHAN DIBLASI: Yeah,
that was something
that when I was
watching it, felt
like seeing like a little kid
going up to someone that they
really looked up and it's
like, I couldn't live up to it.
That was tough.
JIMMY CHIN: And it was the
worst that Peter was there,
the guy that he
looks up to the most.
That just is-- and
Peter saying, you
don't ever have to go for it.
JONATHAN DIBLASI: Yeah.
JIMMY CHIN: And
he's like, I know.
JONATHAN DIBLASI: [INAUDIBLE].
You just don't have to go.
JIMMY CHIN: He's like, I know.
I just need it to end.
And I get that, too,
because sometimes, it
makes a lot of sense,
these big objectives.
And then sometimes,
you step back
and you're like,
what am I doing?
And I think that
those are probably
existential questions everybody
runs into occasionally.
But he kind of perseveres
and pushes through it.
JONATHAN DIBLASI: Yeah,
I think that's something
maybe everybody's asking.
I asked you when we
were getting lunch.
What's next?
But is there something
like that for you?
Maybe not necessarily so
like tortured-soul, I just
need this to end.
But there is there
something for you and Chai
that you're kind of striving
for on a filmmaking,
or climbing size, or
something like that?
JIMMY CHIN: Yeah, I think we
just want to make great films
and tell great stories, and
really kind of connect people.
And I think--
I already said this,
but a friend of ours
called films empathy machines.
You're just trying to create a
connection between the subject
and the viewer, and transport
someone, and hopefully
bring to light--
like documentaries
in particular,
they can really
bring to light a lot
of different political,
environmental, and social
issues that are important
to highlight these days.
And the long format seems to
be having a moment right now.
Documentaries this
year-- there have
been more kind of bigger
box office documentary
releases this year than
we've ever seen before.
And I can't tell if it's just
the product of the moment,
kind of our news cycles
being so wildly fast,
and people not being
able to keep up with it.
And then having this kind of
long-form journalism, in a way,
making a comeback
because people want
to see depth and
connect with something
that actually has some weight.
JONATHAN DIBLASI: I mean, I know
that's probably typical film,
in general.
But it feels like an
escape from something.
Like you said, the news cycle,
just everything going on now,
it's so crazy.
And to get to see something
like Alex free-soloing this,
it's so far from,
at least to me,
something that seems
"normal," and you
get to experience it in
such an intimate way.
So I think that--
JIMMY CHIN: Yeah,
I also think it's
nice to see something a
little uplifting these days
and to see someone
actually doing something.
There's a very real
physical challenge,
a very real mental challenge.
And someone trying to
do it and doing it--
it's a little bit more
tangible than a lot
of things that come up.
So I think that's why it's
having a moment right now,
but--
JONATHAN DIBLASI:
Yeah, definitely,
so we were also talking
at lunch about kind
of the types of people
and the types of climbing
that they like.
And obviously, climbing
is very quickly
growing in popularity,
very popular here.
Look at all these people.
But how have you personally
seen, in your own climbing
career, through making this
film, kind of climbing evolve
and what are your
thoughts on that?
Where do you see it going?
JIMMY CHIN: I mean,
I started climbing
because I loved being outside.
I loved the adventure.
I love the movement.
I love the kind of physical
problem-solving, mental
problem-solving of it.
But the main part being
wanting to be outside--
but it's funny now there's
so many climbing gyms
and everybody's climbing inside.
Which I actually love doing--
I went and climbed for a
few hours this morning.
The movement is still
amazing, but I've always
tied it to exploring
the world and going
on these wild adventures.
But I don't know.
I think climbing--
I mean, I love the fact that
people are enjoying climbing
and then it's becoming more of
a mainstream activity, I guess.
I think it's fun
to-- it's a good way
to hang out with your friends.
It's a good way to kind
of go out and literally
be able to interact with an
environment or landscape.
As an activity, I
think, at least for me,
it opened my mind to trying to
go out and seek these places
where I could go and climb.
So it's been like
a great vehicle
to do a lot of fun stuff with
my friends and my family.
So I think it's great.
JONATHAN DIBLASI:
Yeah, now so you
talk about climbing outside.
What are some of
your other projects?
I know with Alex, actually,
you had that "Expedition
Antarctica" coming up, right?
JIMMY CHIN: Yeah.
JONATHAN DIBLASI: Do you want
to talk a little bit about that?
JIMMY CHIN: Yeah,
well, Alex and I
went on expedition to Antarctica
last winter, last December.
And Alex is still
climbing a lot.
He broke the speed record
on The Nose this spring.
A lot of people are wondering
what he's going to do next.
And I think he--
there's just a lot of different
expressions of climbing.
Climbing isn't just
for him, free-soloing.
There's sport climbing
and bouldering
and all these different
types of climbing.
And I think we all enjoy all
the different aspects of it.
And part of the other
thing about people climbing
and getting people to
really enjoy being outside
is I find that
people are much more
in tune with the environment
and environmental issues
when they love
being outside, and I
think that that's a
really good thing.
I think that there's
potential for more
environmental stewardship
just because people learn.
You want to protect
what you love.
And I think when people get
out and spend a lot of time
under this blue sky,
or under the stars,
or in the wilderness,
that's a good wilderness
therapy for everybody,
which I think we all need.
JONATHAN DIBLASI: Yeah, I
mean, last thing, I guess,
before we go to that,
what do you have to plug?
I mean, obviously, "Free
Solo," but what else
is going on with you?
JIMMY CHIN: Not much, I mean--
JONATHAN DIBLASI: Tell
us about the whole--
I don't know if many people
know what actually happens
when you release a film.
JIMMY CHIN: Oh, yeah,
so I'm essentially
on the press junket or tour,
which is like four months long.
So I haven't been home
since the end of August.
And I've kind of just been--
and it's in support of the
film and it can feel tedious.
But of course, the
film's done very well
and we couldn't be
happier, so just trying
to feel grateful and
roll along with it.
Obviously, I really appreciate
people enjoying the film
and connecting with the film.
It's definitely gone
far beyond what I ever
imagined it would do, so we're
just very grateful for it,
yeah.
JONATHAN DIBLASI:
Great, OK, I guess we'll
do some audience questions now.
I'll just take it in the front
'cause that's an easy one.
AUDIENCE: Hi, thanks
so much for being here.
JIMMY CHIN: Yeah.
AUDIENCE: Cool.
And climbing's a
pretty esoteric sport
and it's very rare that it kind
of breaks into the mainstream.
And so I think Tommy's
climb up Dawn Wall
or Alex's climb are a
few of those occasions.
What do you think the
impact of the success
of your film is going to have
on the future of climbing,
like, what people do, how many
people get into the sport, what
risks they take?
JIMMY CHIN: Yeah, I think--
I can't tell if it's the
chicken or the egg thing.
I can't tell if the
film's doing well
because there's
been this huge surge
in the interest in climbing.
But certainly, with
this film coming out,
it's definitely hit
a broader audience
than we've ever seen before.
And I feel good about
people wanting to climb
and being interested in climbing
for some of the reasons I said.
But it's also about
beyond climbing.
I hope people get something out
of that story, about taking--
facing their fears
and really trying
to achieve what they never
thought possible before.
And I think that he embodies
that in such an incredible way
that that's more of my kind of
hope with it beyond climbing,
I guess.
JONATHAN DIBLASI: Great,
we're going to take--
we'll switch between Dory so
that people that weren't able
to make it in person--
so and you can see it up top.
But "when editing this together,
were there creative decisions
made around portraying
this solo as dangerous,
that's not oversimplified
the act of soloing?
Do you worry about
the repercussions
of newer soloers upping their
game after seeing this film?"
JIMMY CHIN: Yeah,
so we really just--
in some ways, are kind of
MO is always restraint.
And we certainly didn't have
to make the free solo seem
more scary than it
already was because you
try to be objective.
You try to-- as a filmmaker, you
try to kind of tell the story
as it is.
You want to give an honest
representation of what it is.
So we were very restrained
on how we covered it.
I mean, my crew, when
they saw the film,
were all like, that is so
restrained compared to what--
JONATHAN DIBLASI: It
should gnarlier than this?
JIMMY CHIN: --they think it is.
Because yeah, I mean, it's hard
to cover a 3,000-foot climb.
Like the number of
difficult moves on that wall
that aren't in the movie--
I mean, that climb
is, in some ways,
notorious and terrifying
to think about even
as a professional
climber, even with a rope.
I mean, when we were
filming on that last week
before he did it, there
was a team from Germany
sponsored by Adidas--
"ah-di-das"-- and they were--
they spent five
days on the wall.
And they never climbed
every pitch clean,
meaning that they fell
multiple times on several
of the difficult pitches
and never climbed
some of those pitches
clean without falling.
And they spent five days on it.
He climbed it in three
hours and 56 minutes, OK?
So it's not like--
I mean, it's just beyond.
So in some ways,
it's very restrained.
I think we get people the
sense of the magnitude
and that's what we
really tried to do.
In terms of worrying about
repercussions of newer soloers,
the way Alex--
I didn't worry
about that as much
just because
free-soloing is kind
of a self-regulating activity.
You can be like, you know what?
I want to go free solo El Cap.
And then you go to
the base of El Cap,
and then you look up at
it, and you're like, whoa.
And then you climb like
15 feet up off the ground,
and you're like,
wait, I can't actually
physically move up any further.
And this is really
scary to go back down.
So I mean, there's
self-regulating in a way.
But I have thought
about a bit more
about if people are
going to push themselves
as free-soloists.
I just hope everybody--
yeah, I mean, I shouldn't
say the Darwin Awards,
but there's certain activities
that might happen that you just
can't--
JONATHAN DIBLASI: Can't
be held responsible for.
JIMMY CHIN: --be
held responsible for.
But--
JONATHAN DIBLASI: Do you have
any plans to actually release
the full four
hour-- do you have--
JIMMY CHIN: People
have asked that.
We do because we certainly
have the whole thing shot
from the long lens
and then pieces
all up and down the route.
But people have asked us,
are you guys ever going to--
I mean, maybe some day.
If you see a release on Netflix
four hours of pure climbing
porn.
Maybe it'd do well.
Maybe we should release that.
JONATHAN DIBLASI:
If it happens, it's
because of this room
of people, right?
JIMMY CHIN: Yes, it could.
This is a very influential room.
It's cool.
JONATHAN DIBLASI: All
right, audience question--
SPEAKER 1: One-- I'm going to--
AUDIENCE: So my question
is about, actually,
"Meru" and your first attempt.
So you mentioned that there
were several times where
you used the team--
near the top, you
guys set several lines
and then proceeded to cross
those lines several times
before finally turning back.
How do you go about making those
decisions, setting those lines,
and deciding which
ones you will cross
and which ones you
will not cross?
JIMMY CHIN: Yeah,
that's a good question.
Because some of it feels--
it's hard to articulate
specific guidelines.
But I mean, that's what
experience comes from, I think.
And you really have to
follow your instincts.
A lot of those
instincts also come
from knowing that you have
to step outside of yourself.
And certainly the
ego plays a role
in making sometimes
bad decisions.
So you really have
to kind of step
outside of yourself,
kind of be objective
about the actual variables or
inputs that you're getting.
I mean, the thing about
it in the mountains
and in life, I guess, there
are variables you can control
and there variables you can't
control, and a lot of it
is identifying which is which.
And our assess-- that's
always very important.
And that meaning that when you
identify the variables that you
do control, that you take
great efforts in managing
those variables the
best that you can.
In terms of crossing
those lines,
it's kind of an ongoing
assessment of the risks.
And sometimes, you set a
line and when you get to it
and you look around, and
you are being objective
about the inputs
that you're getting,
oftentimes they're telling
you to turn around.
But sometimes, you
get to that line
and you're like, oh, actually,
we still have some margin.
And we'll now set another
line as kind of a marker,
whether that's--
yeah, I guess it
would be sometimes
it's a physical line or
an intellectual line.
But and then you kind of
take the necessary steps
to get to that
next line and then
you make another evaluation.
I think it's hard
because people sometimes
assume that you draw the line
and then you're breaking--
you're doing something
that you don't want to do,
or shouldn't be doing
by crossing a line.
But it's actually because
you've gotten to the line,
made another evaluation, and
then decided to move forward.
Eventually, you get to
the edge of that line,
or you get to the edge,
you get to that next line,
and you look at it
again and you think, OK,
this is a turnaround moment.
So--
JONATHAN DIBLASI:
Yeah, I remember
there's a part in the film
where you say Alex is constantly
pushing the edge and eventually
he could find that edge, right?
JIMMY CHIN: Yeah,
and that's something
that you do a lot in the
world that I live in.
But it's kind of
hard to articulate
all the different reasons
why and when you turn around.
Clearly, it's based
on the risk-reward,
or if the stakes are too high.
But those are evaluations that
you're making all the time.
JONATHAN DIBLASI:
Yeah, all right, we'll
do another Dory question.
We've got another high
stakes thing-- "so
at one point in
the film, Alex said
he didn't want cameras on
him for the boulder problem.
I think he said, no
one needs to see that.
Obviously, that part was
filmed and it was epic.
Is that something you
discussed with Alex prior?
Did it take some convincing?
JIMMY CHIN: Yeah, well,
I'm glad people are
paying attention in the movie.
This is a very--
it seems like everybody
that works here
pays very close attention.
JONATHAN DIBLASI: It's Google.
JIMMY CHIN: It is Google.
But yes, he does say that
he doesn't want anybody
to film it at one point.
Then he goes up, he fails
on that one attempt.
And his realization
and learning from it
is that, OK, if I'm going to
climb in front of my friends,
it just means I have to
be way better prepared.
In the film, it's kind of
portrayed that he turns around
because of too many people
around and the cameras
and stuff, but he actually
just wasn't really ready.
His ankle was still swollen
and it was really cold,
that he couldn't feel his toes.
But he did realize,
look, I just have
to be better prepared, which
we all thought was great.
JONATHAN DIBLASI: Yeah.
JIMMY CHIN: So as he
got closer and closer
in his training to the day
that he actually went for it,
it was a very ongoing,
open conversation.
The thing is, I was never
pushing for it because I
didn't need to push Alex and say
we really want a camera there.
We really-- he knows exactly
what this is all about.
And that, of course,
if possible, we'd
have a camera there.
But if not, that's fine.
That's the whole
neutrality thing,
where you could never
let the needs of the film
outweigh the needs of Alex
and his experience, which
is how we went into the film.
We were very clear with
him and with the crew
and with our executive producers
and with the studio that this--
the film, so you understand--
the needs of the film
will never outweigh
his safety and his experience.
So eventually, we
had that conversation
and he was like, yeah.
He's like, definitely,
that's fine.
That's not going to bother me.
But I don't want a person there.
So we put remote cameras
there and it was fine.
And the reason being
that clearly, he didn't--
if he fell, that he didn't
want his friends to see it.
But he knew that he
wouldn't be stressed
that we would be projecting
fear onto him, which would then
change how he was
feeling in the climb.
And so that's why we had
him face the cameras.
JONATHAN DIBLASI: Yeah,
throughout the film,
generally, when you were
shown, you were kind of--
JIMMY CHIN: I was
always stressed.
JONATHAN DIBLASI: Yeah, I mean,
very stressed, understandably.
But you were-- at least
for his final attempt
where he succeeds,
you were at the top.
You weren't really filming.
Were you kind of just
directing there, or--
JIMMY CHIN: [CHUCKLES]
No, I was actually--
it does look like
I was at the top
because I was actually
filming the enduro corner.
But so I was also shooting
a "National Geographic"
assignment for the magazine
during the two years
we were producing
and directing this,
so I had a still camera bolted
to the top of my film camera.
And so after I filmed
him on the enduro corner,
I was shooting stills
simultaneously.
Then he goes up
and he traverses,
but we didn't have enough
cameramen to shoot.
I had one on the top.
Basically, my vérité DP went--
shot him going to the base
and then ran all the way
around and up to the top.
Yeah, it's a long ways.
But that's the basic
expectation now
that you have to be
able to move like that.
But I didn't have a
still photographer
up there, and
obviously, if you're
shooting in a two-year
assignment of Alex free-soloing
El Cap you kind of have
to get him topping out.
So as soon as he crossed above
me and over on the traverse,
I had to put all the camera
equipment away and jug up
to the top.
But it's like close to
1,000 feet, or 800 feet.
And so I'm just going
[GROWLING] as fast as I can,
and he's around the corner.
I can't see him, but
the whole ground crew
was watching in the
long lens and they
said we were going
the exact same speed.
And they were like,
go, Jimmy, go, go, go.
And then the lines
intersected at one point.
So right when I got to this
one anchor, I looked down
and Alex is like
scampering up the rock.
And I was just like, Alex,
just give me 60 seconds.
And he pulled out his phone.
He looked at his phone
and he just said,
I'm about to break four hours.
And we didn't say another
word to each other
because I knew what that meant.
I was like, Alex does not want
four hours and one minute.
And so I just turned
around and I jugged as fast
I could to the top.
And that's why I'm like
sweating profusely if--
JONATHAN DIBLASI: I thought
it was just the stress, but--
JIMMY CHIN: Well,
it was that, too.
JONATHAN DIBLASI: --both?
JIMMY CHIN: Clumps
of hair falling out.
No, but so I had
to get in the top
and shoot the photos
of him topping out.
I beat him by like a
minute, or something.
JONATHAN DIBLASI: Good work.
JIMMY CHIN: Yeah.
JONATHAN DIBLASI: All right,
we probably have time for one
more in-person question.
AUDIENCE: Hi, there.
Thanks for coming.
My questions are two-part.
One is how is your
relationship with Alex
changed since the
filming process
and ending this with him?
And maybe more
philosophically, how do you
think Alex's relationship
with climbing has changed
after he's finished this climb?
JIMMY CHIN: Well, my
relationship with Alex
is about the same.
He likes to throw me under
the bus every so often.
I like to throw him under
the bus every so often.
No, but we've always had
a very good relationship.
And I think Alex--
actually, I think we are closer.
I mean, through--
the process certainly
has brought us closer.
I also think that he is
really appreciative of what
the film is because
he didn't ever
really care about the film.
He cared about
free-soloing El Cap.
He knew that we were
doing our thing,
but I think he's been surprised
at how well it's been received
and that people really
feel inspired by him
or connected to him, and
I think he enjoys that.
He loves going to watch
the end of the film
'cause he's like, oh, I get
to relive the best moment
of my life on this huge
screen with all these people,
all the time now.
But his relationship to climbing
though and free-soloing--
I mean, he is still going to
climb as much as he possibly
can because he loves climbing.
Is he going to be pushing
for huge free-solos?
I doubt-- I don't know.
I think he's just
like most climbers.
You have to be kind of
motivated and inspired
to climb something,
to really go after it.
But I think that he
has in soloing El Cap--
I mean, there isn't a whole--
there isn't a whole lot
else where you can go with it.
He's free-soloed
El Cap, so I think
he'll probably focus
his energy on all
the different expressions of
climbing that are out there
and enjoy his moment.
And he's really--
his whole thing, too,
is that he's like,
fame is useless
unless you can use it for good.
And so he's pivoting
a lot of the attention
towards his Honnold Foundation,
which does solar projects
around the world.
And that is something that
he really believes in.
JONATHAN DIBLASI:
Yeah, that's great.
So I think that is probably all
the time we have for questions.
I mean, with the
remaining few minutes
that we have, anything
you want to plug, pitch?
JIMMY CHIN: No, not
really, I mean, I just
hope you all enjoy the film.
And I really appreciate,
again, that you follow the work
and that you're going to see it,
and that you came out to see me
today.
I guess, I mean, that's awesome,
so thank you so much, yeah.
JONATHAN DIBLASI: Thank you.
[APPLAUSE]
