What’s going on, guys? Today I have a really
cool little interview for you and it is with
Cara Leopold from Leo-Listening.com. So, this
is a really cool interview. This is part 1
where we’re going to be talking about how
she ended up moving to France, how she learnt
French, and how she adapted to the French
culture.
So, it’s a really cool interview, guys.
She also has an interesting accent. So, see
if you can pick where she’s from.
I hope you enjoy this one. And make sure you
stay tuned for the second interview, which
will be out shortly about how to stop using
subtitles when you watch movies.
Stay tuned. It’s a ripper!
****
G'day guys! Welcome to this episode of Aussie
English. I have a special guest for you today,
on today's interview episode, and you might
notice that she has a slightly different accent
from me. Cara from Leo-Listening.com. Thanks
for coming on the podcast and chatting to
us about getting subtitle free.
Hiya Pete, yeah, thanks for introducing me,
and yes, we do have a slightly... a slightly
different accent.
Can you tell me where yours is from? Can you
tell me about...
Well, mine is a bit... Mine is a bit of a
mess... because I... I as a kid I used to
live in Scotland. So I lived in Scotland until
I was 11 or 12, and you know, All my family
are Scottish, you know. And then so when I
was 11, almost 12, we moved to England. We
moved to a city called Nottingham, in England.
So, like, my accent started to change really
rapidly because I was kind of dropped straight
into secondary school, and everyone was like,
you know, "You sound so Scottish!, I can't
understand you!", I didn't have like a really...
You know... I didn't have like a really broad
Glaswegian accent like...
Billy Connolly!
I hadn't even lived... I was born in Glasgow,
but I actually lived somewhere else in Scotland.
So... Like, I actually... like me and my brother
had different accents to my parents, because
my mum is from Glasgow, my dad's from another
place, so like, we all had different accents.
So even the people talking about the Scottish
accent, it's so... Like... It's quite fine
tuning in the UK. Like, you kinda go 20 miles
and it changes, which sounds crazy!
I always wanted to know how does that... how
does that... I guess, continue into modern
day life when the world is so connected, and
you would think in England, that being such
a small island or group islands in the Britain,
that you guys would mix around a whole heap!
But is it just that everyone is spending their
developmental years, as kids, in a very small
region, getting their accent kind of cemented,
and then when they leave they still hold on
to it?
Yeah, it's a good point, because obviously,
like... We're massively influenced by, like...
I mean I've always liked watching TV. Like,
as a kid I would get up really early on the
weekend and, like... Watch programs, and you
know... A lot of them are obviously American
or even Australian. So you'd think our accents
would be influenced as well by like, media.
But I don't know, I think ultimately we're
more influenced by kind of the day to day,
like... Context. So when you're growing up
it's other kids: You don't want to sound,
like... Too different
Yeah, you don't want to be the outsider, right?
Exactly! Yeah, and I mean obviously that was
the case when I moved to England, and I think
I quickly adjusted my accent because I didn't
want to, like, stand out... Too much, and
I wanted people to understand me but I think
they were exaggerating a little bit!
You get sick of repeating yourself, right?
When people are like, "What!? What!? what
did you say!?", and you're just like "ughhhh",
and that pushes you to kind of blend in.
Exactly, yeah. So my... My accent changed
quite a bit. Like, some people... Some people
still know that I'm... They know that I'm
Scottish after speaking to me, even just for,
like, a couple of minutes, like, they know.
And I mean, I've had another Scottish person
say to me, you know... Act like I basically
know which village you're from! Because he
was from... He was from the same area! He
was, like, from the next village. I mean,
that sounds insane, but that's how... Kind
of, yeah, specific . Each... Each accent is.
I mean, yeah... That sounds... That sounds
crazy, because... In Australia, does it vary
very much?
Not the same way. Ours is kind of... There
are three... I just did a video on this...
There are three sort of accents, or dialects.
And it's the cultivated which is more your
upper class, received pronunciation, like
the British, you know? you would speak with
a very... Very clearly. You would pronounce
all the words correctly. Or, at least properly,
like according to the dictionary, and you
would... You would be very well educated.
Have... Tend to be from a rich family. Then
there's the general, which is kind of just
everywhere. And then the broad. And the broad
tends to be associated with people of... Either
from, like, rural areas, where they're away
from the city, or it kind of blends in with
the lower class a little bit. So especially
with guys. Guys who hang out together a lot.
Only Aussie guys. Together they tend to develop
a bit of a broader... broader accent than
uhm... And especially the further away you
get from the cities. But that's what England
fascinates me: Because you guys don't seem
to have the same pattern. And we came from
England, right? So we originally came from...
At least the majority of us, when we colonized
Australia, we're all from small parts, I think,
of England. Some of us kept the Cockney accent.
I think that's part of why we ended up with
Rhyming slang. Yeah. But it' s always funny!
I just... It blows my mind how much difference
there is in England, and how you guys still
have trouble with each other. Because you
would imagine, if you... You know, the average
Australian hearing cultivated, broad or general
will pretty much understand everyone. But
then you hear people like, such as yourself,
who say kids had trouble understanding you
in school. And you're kind of like, "Don't
you guys watch TV and see Scottish people
on TV?"
Yeah... Yeah I don't... I don't think it's
100 percent... I think everyone's exaggerating
a little bit. Like, it doesn't take that much
effort to tune in to someone else's accent.
Especially because, in general, like... It's
only... Like, not everything changes. Not
every sound changes, you know? In Scottish...
In Scottish-English, like, we pronounce our
R's at the end of the words, which you don't
do in other accents of English. Some of the
vowels are different, like... But it's not
massively different. And especially when your
accent is quite... isn't very strong. But
yeah it is weird... It is weird you know...
And now, obviously, it's more acceptable,
like on TV and in the media, to hear all the
different regional accents and some of them
are considered quite cool. So yeah. In theory
we should be a bit better at understanding
each other, but...
It's funny too. I find that, as an Australian,
because we've watched so much media that's
not just Australian, as well as movies and
TV series, we get so used to these accents.
And so we tend to be able to pick where you're
from too in these different countries. Like,
I'm not the best at it, but I can tell north
versus south and, you know... Like, even in
watching Game of Thrones, right? Where they
separate them out based on the Scottish accents
of the north. And, like, everyone else is
down... It's just crazy... But it's funny
when... Do you guys have trouble with Australians
if we go to the UK? Or... Because you guys
have watched a lot of Home and Away and Neighbours,
you guys know the Aussie accent pretty well?
Yeah! I would be inclined to say that most
people, like, even if they don't watch those
soap operas now, like Home and Away and all
that... They watched them... Or at uni, instead
of going to class they watched Neighbours
or Home and Away. So yeah, I think it... I
would imagine that it's less... It's less
difficult. And also, like... Yeah it's funny...
Like, I live in France now and that's probably
also an important part of the accent-piece.
And so last night on French TV, on one of
the channels Crocodile Dundee was on.
Really?
Yeah! Oh you wouldn't believe some of the
stuff they put on French TV.
Was that dubbed though, or was that subtitles?
A good question! I... They probably offered...
Because now, with like... Digital TV sometimes
with the film we can put it into the original
version.
I can't imagine watching Crocodile Dundee
with dubs! Oh my god, that would be atrocious!
It's really common to dub films. And sometimes,
on some channels... because the audience,
you know... For that particular channel or
film isn't going to be English speaking, they
just leave it in French. You can't even put
it in English if you wanted to!
Yeah, exactly.
So, like, last night we came across Kung Fu
Panda. It was on some kid's channel, and it
was only in French! You couldn't switch it
into English.
Oh, wow... But that's the part that I loved
though, as well as I hated, when I was learning
French really thoroughly a few years ago.
I just love the fact that you could download
Game of Thrones with dubs, with subtitles...
All in French, and so... You know, you already
had watched it in English, you knew the story,
but now you could watch it with French voices.
Even though was a bit strange, it was a lot
more helpful for listening comprehension - not
just having subtitles.
Yeah, Subtitles, yeah... that's it, that's....
It's the advantage of France, because they
are... They do do a lot of dubbing. You're
going to be able to find material. and sometimes
it's really well dubbed! Like... Like they
really get it right, in terms of the tone
and the register. So like... So the example
I always go to is South Park! It's a very
rude cartoon! the French dubbing of that is
amazing... it's on point. It's so funny...
The kids are, obviously... They are really
rude. They swear a lot. They insult each other.
And, like... All of that is kept in there,
but with... Like, appropriate French expressions
for...
The equivalent, because that's the hardest
thing to convey, right? With TV shows like
that, where there's so much more depth to
it, pop-culture wise, than just literally
translating what they're saying, you know?
That... I am always mind blown when I have
friends that have come over from Brazil or
France or Spain or wherever it is in the world.
They've learnt English, and then they get
TV shows like South Park or Rick and Morty
or even the Simpsons, because so much of it
is like... Western pop-culture and references
to these... You know, famous people and situations...
Exactly! But yeah, know some... that says
what's good in French and there's lots of
dubbed films that are that are really, you
know, well done. So you don't miss out. But
you obviously do miss out on hearing it in
English, but at least the dubbing is kind
of... It's, like, loyal to the spirit of the
film. I didn't stick around watching Crocodile
Dundee long enough to actually see if it was
an English or the dubbed version because it
would be... I don't know what they do to do
Crocodile Dundee. Like, how did they make
him speak? What accent did they give him?
Like...
What's a broad French accent? The Racaille
or...?
Yeah! Sometimes what they do... Yeah they
could make him speak like... Yeah, no, I don't
think that would work...What they... What
they could do is make him speak like someone
really rural I guess. Or sort of country folk.
I don't know where I was going with my was
my train of thought... Oh yeah! It's like
sometimes... Like you know in South Park there's
a character who's British: Pip.
Yeah, of course.
So what they do in the French version is that
he is dubbed with a strong English accent
in French.
Because, yeah, it's like how do you convey
that message too, of like, Pip has an English
accent on an American TV show with American
kids, which makes him sound incredibly pretentious
and posh. How do you translate that into other
languages and cultures? Because you can't
really just give him an English accent because
people won't get it. The French still leave
him as English, but speaking French with a
strong English accent.
Exactly! Yeah. Oh I'm so annoyed now! I should
have watched a few minutes of Crocodile Dundee,
just to figure out... Because they couldn't
do it like basically a French voice with a
strong kind of Australian sounding, or at
least anglophone sounding accent.
Je suis Crocodile Dundee, Comment allez-vous?!
Yeah, that'd be amazing!
Ça, c'est un couteau!
Yeah! I was about to say that. "C'est pas
un couteau!". That's not a knife!
Ça, c'est un couteau! Yeah, I don't... I
don't... Yeah, I'm going to... I'm going have
to YouTube that in a second and find the dubbed
version just to double check how they... How
they do it.
So how did you end up in France, though? What's
the story there? And how've you found the
language learning experience over in France?
Yeah! So, like, I studied French at university.
Really?
Yeah, so I studied linguistics and I studied
French, and... Yeah I just... I wanted to,
and I had spent some time in France, like,
during the summers, between years at uni,
and I just was like "Yeah! I wanna... I want
to go and live in France, after." So, like,
a lot of people do the year abroad where they
go and study in a French university or something
like this. I didn't actually do that, for
various reasons. And then my university had
like a link with the university in the city
where I live now, which is called Besançon.
So, there was an opportunity for me to come
over after my studies and teach English. So
I was like "Yeah! I want to do that because
I'm interested in teaching English as a foreign
language. I want to live in France and...
You know, there's the possibility of us...
Ticking all the boxes, huh?
It's ticking all the boxes! And it was a really
cool job because it's, like, they pay you
the minimum wage but you have like 12 hours
of teaching a week.
Wow! Okay.
So you're getting paid as if you're doing
35... Wait! Obviously...
The lower end... The lower end of 35 hours
a week right, though? Like, pay-wise?
But yeah... But, like, it's fine if you're
a young single person on the minimum wage
in France. It's like... The cost of living
is okay. So... Yeah it was really cool. I
did. I had a job for a couple of years teaching
in a university, which is quite... It's quite
a steep learning curve when you go to work
in a university in France because it's very
different to the way a university works in
the U.K., and the way I imagine it works in
Australia.
So how does it differ?
It's quite chaotic! Because, like, as long
as you've got the baccalauréat, you can go
to university. This is changing at the moment
and this is why some French universities are
on strike, because they want to introduce
selection before you get into uni. Essentially
what happens in France is loads of people
turn up... The first year is really the year
of selection. So, like, a lot of people just
drop out because they don't really know why
they were there in the first place. Especially
, you know, I was working in the sort of humanities,
languages and faculté. A lot of people just
kind of turn up there because they've finished
school, they don't know what to do, they've
heard that if you study a language or sociology
the workload is a bit lighter: You don't have
as many classes, so they are like "Okay I'm
just going to enroll here!" because it's very
cheap to enroll, or even free, and some people
get bursaries. So it is really good in that
sense, it's really open. But that means that,
like, it's quite chaotic because... you know
they have classes that are supposed to be
kind of seminar style, but, like, one time
in one of these classes I had like 47 students.
Like, obviously they didn't all turn up...
It didn't all turn up, like, fortunately.
But I think for the test, though, they were
probably... They were probably all there.
Yeah that was probably the time I had counted
47. So that's supposed to be like an English
class where they're supposed to be doing oral
expression. And even if the maximum is supposed
to be more like 30, that's still, like, way
too many people.
Well you just don't have enough time, right?
To get them all to talk and to be involved
more deeply.
Yeah, there's a lot of crowd control because
French people, they really like talking. Like,
it's not uncommon for people to talk all the
way through even a lecture! Like... And I
had colleagues from other countries who were
so shocked! Like, I had a Brazilian colleague...
That 'd be a big no-no in Australia. You would
get thrown out.
Oh yeah! Like, it's so rude. And yeah, so
the Brazilian colleague was like, you know,
"I was doing a lecture and people are just,
you know, they don't shut up, like... ," So
yeah it's definitely different. You're sort
of less well looked after if you're a student
in France. You're kind of left to your own
devices to kind of muddle... Muddle through,
you know, and then figure it out. So yeah,
not everybody ends up finishing university.
Like, a lot of people leave or do something
else.
So was there a lot of culture shock though
too, when you went over there? Like, the different
food, the different, I guess, etiquette with
people, right? There's a bit of a difference
there, too and...
Yeah, like, there were some there's some stuff
I knew from spending a bit of time, like...
Like, I'd been to a summer school at a French
university and I'd done some homestays with
French families a little bit. So I kind of
knew what to expect. So that helped a bit.
But, yeah, I hadn't actually spent that much
time in France, like, in... When I was younger.
Like, it wasn't really a holiday destination
for us, like, you know a lot of British people
like to go to Spain.
Exactly.
I probably went there on holiday, or even
just on holiday in Scotland, or whatever,
so... But yeah, so like me the most important
things I knew, but some things were still
really, like, hard for me, when I arrived,
like... Like, you know, it's really important
to... When you going to shop in France you
have to say "Bonjour," whereas in the English
speaking world you can kind of... You can
kind of just sneak in.
Exactly.
So you don't always have to say, unless it's
a really small kind of independent shop, then
you might say something to the person who
is working there. But, yeah, in France it
is really important to announce your arrival
by saying bonjour, or they're suppossed to
say bonjour to you.
So, like, directly to them, or just like as
in "Bonjour!"? Like, is it you walk in and
you're like "I'm here!"
Sometimes I'll go into the bakery. If there's
a bit of a queue, I might be like "Bonjour".
It's just like a general bonjour to everyone.
Some people are a bit like... Like a sort
of... Yeah, some people will come in and be
like, "Bonjour mesieurdames!", you know, they're
kind of addressing everybody in the shop,
you know. I don't I'd walk in there like I
just kinda mumble a "Hello".
It's so funny, the differences I notice too,
because like I'm learning Brazilian Portuguese
at the moment, and they are so relaxed, and
they have these same sort of expressions.
Like, they'll say things like "Oi gente",
which is like "Hi people," or "Oi galera!".
"Oi galera", which is like when you're addressing
a lot of people at once. On Facebook they'll
always write, "Oi galera!" in the groups,
and it means like "Hi, gallery," you know,
like a gallery of people.
Interesting!
I love how that changes but that is it, "Mesieursdames"?
like... It's like "Mr., Mrs., hello,"
"Monsieurdame! Bonsoir, monsieurdame! Monsieurdame".
Yeah... That's something you have to just
be careful with. And then, yeah, because,
like, some things are a bit more formal in
day to day life, so the whole thing of going
into the shop and saying "Bonjour!" And the
thing that always cracks me up, right, I noticed...
I caught onto the fact that if you don't know
someone, even if they're more or less your
age...
You've got to do the "vous" thing, right?
Yeah, well... Not that, but it's, like, the
first time you meet someone you would say
"Bonjour." So even if it's a younger person
around your same age, because I was like "Oh,
surely I can just say 'salut'," which is like
"Hi!". But no! If you've never met you say
"Bonjour."
I never knew that.
I've noticed that, and I'm like, "This is
stupid because otherwise, if you're young
and you meet another young person for the
first time you can't just "Tu". You know,
if you're both 25 you just say "Tu". I mean
I'm 32 now, so I'm probably leaving that kind
of zone of being able to just say "Tu" to
whoever I want. Yeah, and if people perceive
you as younger... Like, I had to go and see
a sort of specialist doctor yesterday, and
it got a bit weird because, you know, he's
calling me "Vous" initially, and then he was
sort of using "Tu", because it's like "Oh,
well she's young." I don't know what... I
was just like "You know, you've got to decide
mate because..."
I guess, for the context of listeners, the
French have "vous," which is like polite,
plural "you", and "tu," which is like singular...
I guess not impolite, but is kind of informal,
right? It's what you would use with friends.
It's how you get closer to someone, you know.
So that concept is difficult for French people
learning English. It's like "Well how do I
show I'm the same level as someone?", and
it's like "Well you can't do it with a pronoun.
You do it with other things."
And the funny thing is that I'm always telling
my students that in Australia you will...
It's like we automatically call everyone "tu"
because it shows that we're all friends, and
that we're all mates. So if I met the Prime
Minister of Australia tomorrow, you know,
like that dude at the top of Australia, he
would probably say to me "G'day mate," you
know, which he would treat me like I was his
best friend and that's just like a weird Australian
thing, where I think it's partly where the
anti-British establishment from when we were
a colony, you know, the last few hundred years,
and as a result of rebelling against the classes
we treat everyone like they're our mates,
and so it's just so weird. Like, I don't know
how I would act in front of the queen, you
know. Like, I mean I probably wouldn't say
"G'day mate," but it would feel like...
Probably not.
"How's it going?".
"You alright, how's Philip?".
Yeah exactly! That's it, I know. But that's
the funny thing: That in Australia the good
thing is that you can get away with calling
people "mate", or even saying "dude".
I noticed recently, going around to different
stores I was filming some stuff for videos,
and I was referring to people as just "Dude"...
"Hey dude, how you going?" Like, you know
and people... They just don't even flinch,
it's just "Yeah, whatever."
That's interesting because French life is
definitely more formal, like... Also the thing...
For a couple of years I worked in a French
company, and I was in... It was industrial,
so there was a factory and then there were
office bits. And it just... It's comical to
me, again, like just spending all day bumping
into people in the corridor going "Bonjour,"
or you like... You run into the HR manger,
"Bonjour," shake hands. You run into the boss
of the factory, "Bonjour!", shake hands, "Bonjour!",
shake hands. And it's just like "Is this like
a Monty Python sketch?" Like, you know sometimes
it just feels really silly to me, some of
this sort of, you know, formal rules. But
yeah the craziest one for me is "Okay, you
don't know this person, but you're about the
same age, you know, but you can't 'sault'
the first time , you must say 'bonjour,' but
after that you can say 'salut' to this person
whenever you want."
That's an unspoken rule, is it too? Where
you don't even... It's not even like "Oh yeah!
Make sure you do this," It's just something
everyone seems to do, is it?
I'm going to have to double check it with
some French people and some Anglophones, but
for me... I've definitely noticed that . Like,
you know, I've said "Salut!" to someone I'm
being introduced to and then they've said
"Bonjour" back! And I'm like "well... that
was awkward." Like...
You could just be like "Quoi de neuf mon pot!?",
you know, "What's up, matey?".
I think I'll try that! Then at the same time
you have to kiss them on the cheek. So it's
like... Alright, so, I can't just say hi to
you but I kiss next to your face? How... This
doesn't make any sense! Like, I should be
able to say “salut” when we're getting,
you know, very close physically but...
Do you get leeway though, too? because you're
obviously not French. Do people at least go
"Okay. Alright, you know, she's not trying
to be rude or anything, she just doesn't get
that we do these things without... that are
unspoken rules, you know?"
Yeah I think I probably get away with... Yeah,
to a certain extent. And also it depends on
the environment. So in the university environment
people do tend to use "tu" with each other.
Very easily between colleagues. Obviously
it it's the dean of the university you'd have
to use "vous". But that's quite... Whereas
some workplaces... I think it just depends
on the workplace culture, like how formal
it is or not.
It's so interesting though, that even obviously
we have these same problems, between two cultures...
Two cultures that you would imagine would
be incredibly close to one another, France
and England, and yet you guys have relatively
big differences that you kind of have to stumble
your way through when you're learning how
to... how to navigate that culture.
Definitely, definitely. Yeah. You can't really
understand it fully, I think, until you've
seen it, kind of, on the ground and you've
tried things out and you have seen the reactions,
when you've observed people. I think you have
to a lot of, kind of, observation of what
other people do and then you kind of go in
and... You know, you can try it yourself but...
Yeah, you have to be a little bit careful,
but yeah, you always you can always play that
kind of foreigner card.
Would you have any... Any advice for French
people learning English and coming to England
or even Australia, or even foreigners in general?
And, sort of, dos and don'ts, or how to get
past this sort of situation? Learn how to
how to navigate these situations.
Yeah! I think, like... You know... Yeah, definitely
look at what other people are doing and what's
kind of, yeah, acceptable or not. Because
ye, some things that are weird from... if
you're coming from any culture where people
kiss each other like in France. So when we
say "Kiss", actually what you do is you just
touch the other person's cheek with your cheek
and then you make a kissing noise. You know,
when you... When you meet someone that you
know and you do the *kissing noises* on each
cheek, right?
But don't kiss them on the mouth! That might
freak them out!
...Like people... In a lot of Anglican cultures
people will hug and I know that's a bit weird
for French people, so...
Yeah, that's something I've encountered quite
a bit. Where people I'll meet for the first
time and I'll just be like "Yea, give us a
hug," you know, "what's up?" And they'll be
like "...What?" And you're just like "but
that's just what we do! we're just friendly,"
you know. Like, we don't shake hands, it's
a bit formal and the kissing, we don't do,
but we hug.
[00:26:07] Yeah, yeah! That's it. Because
it's kind of awkward for my... Like, my partners
French, so he doesn't really... He doesn't
even like doing the kissing, even though it's,
like, in his culture. Although there are some
men that he kisses! Like . .. He's quite into
the concert scene here where we live, and
he knows people who run record labels and
organise concerts, so when he sees them they're
thing is to do the kisses on the cheeks, not
the shaking of hands. It's just... It's just
that in that context... That's what they kind
of do.
See, that's a big point though, right? No
matter what, you know, part of the world you're
going to you kind of have to not just learn
in a book what the context is for what you
should be doing, but get in there. And then
you learn because it might be different for
different groups, and friends, and family,
and could be anything.
This is... Yeah, this is why it's really . .. Even
like the tu/vous thing, when you start learning
about it in books it looks quite straightforward.
You're like "okay." Do I know the person,
or do I not know the person? And then when
you're actually in France they add on like
a million extra rules! It's really, really
complicated! But anyway... But yeah, the hugging
thing... Yeah, it's maybe trial and error,
or, I don't know, if it makes you feel weird
e d out you're allowed to say it, you know,
you're saying that it's...
You need to embrace the fact that you will
get a free pass, you know, if you're a foreigner.
People aren't going to... Their automatic
assumption will never be "this guy's being
a jerk, he's being rude intentionally." Yeah.
So as oppossed to if I did. If I did it to
another Australian, they would understand
instantly that... Well they would have these
assumptions about what I know, and what I
shouldn't do or should do. Whereas for you,
people will give you a lot of leeway often,
because they think you're getting used to
how everything works.
Definitely.
****
Alright, guys. So, that was it for today.
I really hope you enjoyed that interview.
Massive thanks to Cara from Leo-Listening.com.
Remember that we will be back, although, this
guy won’t be back, but we will be back for
the second part of this interview shortly
so stay tuned and wait for that where you
guys will learn how you can stop using subtitles,
how you can get passed having to use subtitles
when you watch TV shows or movies.
See you in the next one, guys. Bye!
