[MUSIC PLAYING]
[APPLAUSE]
NATE GANA: Thank
you guys very much.
How are you guys doing today?
AUDIENCE: Pretty good.
NATE GANA: You all
big whisky fans?
AUDIENCE: Yeah.
NATE GANA: Awesome.
Very cool.
Well, we've got one
of the best guys
I know in the industry,
period, Mr. Ian Chang.
So he is the master
blender of Kavalan Whisky
as well as the
distillery manager.
So one thing that drew me to
Kavalan was, one, the quality,
but two, the climate
in Taiwan, which
allows you to produce whisky
much differently than you
would traditionally.
But also, being at Google, this
is probably the most fitting,
it is the most technologically
advanced distillery
in the world.
So I think that's
a really cool point
to speak about given
that we're here.
So Ian, how are
things going with you?
IAN CHANG: Things
are doing well.
NATE GANA: Good.
Yeah, you've been busy.
You've been very busy.
IAN CHANG: So far, yes.
NATE GANA: So you're here
from Taiwan for Whisky Fest?
IAN CHANG: That's right,
and also next week, we
go into DC for Whisky
Fest DC as well.
NATE GANA: Very cool.
IAN CHANG: And after
that I go back to Taiwan.
NATE GANA: You're not stopping.
IAN CHANG: Ready for the
next trip, which is Spain.
NATE GANA: Really?
IAN CHANG: Yes,
yes, that's right.
NATE GANA: Big market for you?
IAN CHANG: No.
Spain is mainly to visit
our sherry cask supplier.
As you know, within the
Kavalan portfolio we have,
I would say, the most
comprehensive sherry
portfolio--
NATE GANA: Yes.
IAN CHANG: in the
whisky industry.
Right from Fino Sherry Cask,
Manzanilla, Amontillado,
and so on.
NATE GANA: Yes.
IAN CHANG: So every
year, I actually
go to Spain twice
a year to inspect
the quality of our cask.
NATE GANA: OK.
IAN CHANG: See if
they are ready or not
for the maturation
of our whisky.
So that is something that
I'm really looking forward
to because as you
know, in Spain,
the weather is very good.
NATE GANA: It's fantastic.
IAN CHANG: And the
food is good, as well.
NATE GANA: The food
is very good, yes.
Yes.
Spain is one of my
favorite places to be.
But tell me about how this
came about, Kavalan in general.
IAN CHANG: So as Josh
mentioned just now,
Kavalan started in 2005.
At that time, we were the one
and only whisky distillery.
So like our Japanese
neighbor, where
they have Suntory, which
started the Japanese whisky
industry back in 1923.
Kavalan actually started the
Taiwanese whisky industry,
but as late as 2006.
But the reason for that, it
was actually quite simple.
Because anytime before
2002, we couldn't
have any private wineries,
distilleries, or breweries.
NATE GANA: Really?
IAN CHANG: Because of
the monopoly system
that we used to have in Taiwan.
So only our government
at that time
could produce, import, and
also sell anything alcoholic.
So Mr. Lee Sr., who is about
80 years old this year,
he was really frustrated when
he was a young man 40 years ago,
when he wanted to set
up his own distillery,
but he couldn't do so.
And that's why we waited
for almost 30 years.
In 2002, finally,
the whole regulation
was changed due to WTO.
Because once you
join WTO, you have
to embrace fair
competition, and also you
have to open yourself
up to the whole world.
NATE GANA: Yes.
IAN CHANG: So that's why when
Mr. Lee was really chuffed,
so he quickly set
up a small team
of engineers, folk
technologists, even architects,
because he has to design
the shape of our distillery.
NATE GANA: Yes.
IAN CHANG: So we even came to
US, Canada, Japan, Scotland,
and also Ireland to
gather information,
and also to see how to set
up a distillery of our own
in Taiwan.
So between 2002
and also 2005 that
was what we call the
intelligence gathering
phase of the setting
up of the distillery.
So finally in April 2005,
we started construction.
And guess?
What it took us only nine months
to build a whole distillery.
NATE GANA: What?
IAN CHANG: Which I was
told that it was a record.
NATE GANA: I think it's a
record for a lot of things.
IAN CHANG: Exactly.
So as Mr. Lee senior
always describes,
it's like having a baby
born in nine months' time.
So that's his baby.
NATE GANA: It is his
baby, absolutely.
IAN CHANG: So ever
since then, we've
been producing whisky 24 hours
a day, seven days a week,
365 days a year,
nonstop until today.
NATE GANA: Oh, my god.
IAN CHANG: Yeah.
NATE GANA: So speaking of the
distillery, when I went over
there, I learned a lot of
things, and one thing I learned
was that the second
most popular distillery
in the world in Scotland
has about 150,000 visitors
per year.
You guys have a million
visitors a year?
IAN CHANG: Approximately,
yes, that's right.
NATE GANA: You are number
one by a long shot.
IAN CHANG: But
also in a way, that
shows you how alcoholic we are--
[LAUGHTER]
In Taiwan.
NATE GANA: OK.
That's true.
That's true.
IAN CHANG: Because among the one
million visitors, 80% domestic,
20% foreign.
NATE GANA: 80% domestic.
IAN CHANG: That's right.
NATE GANA: Wow.
IAN CHANG: That's right.
Our domestic
consumers, when they
don't have anywhere else to go,
they come to our distillery.
NATE GANA: Oh, my god.
So then with the products
that you're creating,
how did you get
into whisky making?
IAN CHANG: So it was actually
by, I would say by fate.
NATE GANA: OK.
IAN CHANG: Because in 2004, no,
sorry, I should say early 2005.
During that time, my
father, he was really ill.
So my mom asked me to come home,
and to look after the family.
NATE GANA: Where
were you at the time?
IAN CHANG: I was actually doing
small businesses in China.
NATE GANA: OK.
IAN CHANG: So I
came back to Taiwan.
We finished everything in China.
And at that time, I
didn't know what to do.
I was actually really panicking.
So every day, I remember
from January to April,
every day I was searching
on the internet,
through Google as well,
looking for a job.
And in Taiwan we have this
so-called 104 website,
which is the website you go
to look for job vacancies.
So one day I saw, it was
3 o'clock in the morning,
I couldn't sleep.
And I saw that King
Car Company, which
is the group that
is behind Kavalan,
they were looking for someone
to be a spirit researcher.
So it wasn't quite
a blender yet.
So I sent my CV, and three
weeks later, a gentleman
whose name is Peter--
he's the special assistant
to our chairman, Mr. Lee--
he called me and he said, "are
you still looking for a job."
I said, "yes, I'm
desperate for a job."
So he said, "come
to our headquarter,
and do interview,
and see how it goes."
So the next day I went, and
the very first question he
asked me was if I had
any previous experience
in the whisky industry or any
alcoholic beverage industry.
And as you can tell, I'm
a very honest person,
and the answer was no.
So I said no, and
I thought that was
the end of the conversation.
But then I did emphasize
to him that for the eight
years studying in
the UK as a student,
I was drinking
almost every night.
[LAUGHTER]
And that should count
as very much being
part of the industry, as well.
So he said, why
don't you take a test
on your nose to see if
you can differentiate
all of these flavors.
As you know that when we drink
whisky, I would say the most--
and they would agree with me--
the most fascinating and also
interesting thing about whisky
is that every distillery has its
own unique flavors, qualities,
and so on.
So in front of me I had 15
of the so-called whisky notes
that you can expect
from single malt whisky.
And the rule was very simple
I could only nose them once,
and then you have to write
down the descriptors.
So apparently I was very lucky
that I had the highest score.
But also it was then I knew
that my nose actually works.
[LAUGHTER]
I could differentiate all these
different flavors from whiskys.
NATE GANA: Right, right.
IAN CHANG: And once
I joined the company,
I was really lucky once again,
very fortunate that Mr. Lee,
he sent me to
Scotland for two years
to study with the world famous
whisky expert of Dr. Jim Swam.
NATE GANA: Jim Swan.
IAN CHANG: So for
two years that was he
was the person who taught
me everything about whisky,
and life in general as well.
So he's my Mr. Miyagi in a way.
NATE GANA: Yes.
IAN CHANG: And I'm
the whisky kid.
[LAUGHTER]
NATE GANA: That's
an amazing story,
because I know now that--
I mean, I don't want
to say the number.
But how many whiskies do
you taste per day now?
IAN CHANG: So on a daily basis,
if I'm not traveling, which
is very difficult these days.
Because I always say to
our audience and consumer
that these days I'm
more into the show biz--
being a brand ambassador,
going around the world.
NATE GANA: Yeah.
IAN CHANG: To all tastings.
But whenever I go back to
Taiwan, on a daily basis,
I have to nose samples in a
range of between 200 to 400.
NATE GANA: Per day?
IAN CHANG: On a
daily basis, yes.
Because I have to catch up
with when I'm not there,
because the production
doesn't stop.
NATE GANA: No.
IAN CHANG: So every day we have
new batches of the new make,
and also you have matured
products in the casks.
NATE GANA: Yes.
IAN CHANG: All
waiting to be nosed,
to be determined
whether they are matured
or not, or if we need to
do something differently.
NATE GANA: Yes.
IAN CHANG: For example,
transferring from refill
cask to say port cask.
NATE GANA: Yes
IAN CHANG: And so on.
So it's very interesting.
Even though I have so
many samples to nose,
but I never get tired.
I would say it's the
best job in the world.
NATE GANA: Absolutely the
best job in the world.
IAN CHANG: If you like to drink.
NATE GANA: If you
like to drink, yes.
Yes.
And so is Kavalan producing
any other products other
than whisky?
IAN CHANG: Yes, last
year 2018 in November,
we launched our latest gin.
NATE GANA: Wow, congratulations.
IAN CHANG: So this is
our gin number one,
and this year we are
working on gin number two.
So in the future, as we talked
about just now before the talk,
in the future.
I think in addition
to whisky, Kavalan
and we also do gin and also
some other alcoholic beverages
as well.
NATE GANA: Oh, wow.
IAN CHANG: So these
are all the surprises
that we have for our
consumers for the future.
NATE GANA: Fantastic.
Well, I know that
the Distillery Select
is new to the American market.
What was the purpose of
creating Distillery Select?
IAN CHANG: Right, so
the Distillery Select,
which is the one here, this
was also launched last year,
similar time to our gin.
NATE GANA: OK.
IAN CHANG: I would say
this is the brand new entry
level for any consumers who
wants to either try whisky
in general for the first time or
try Kavalan for the first time.
Because in the past,
Kavalan has always
been described as quality
only and no quantity.
NATE GANA: Right.
IAN CHANG: Because
the consumers always
say that Kavalan
is a bit pricey,
but Mr. Lee knows that quality
is actually our number one
priority.
NATE GANA: Absolutely.
IAN CHANG: But in order to have
a volume maker for Kavalan,
for quantity, we need to
do something differently.
NATE GANA: Yes
IAN CHANG: In order to
bring down the cost so
that the final end price for our
consumers can be competitive.
For example here in
Chicago, at Binny's.
NATE GANA: Yes.
IAN CHANG: I saw
this one on the shelf
for $49.99, which is, I think,
a very competitive price.
NATE GANA: Reasonable
price point, yes.
IAN CHANG: And even though
the price is competitive,
we don't compromise
anything on the quality.
NATE GANA: Quality, yeah.
Absolutely.
IAN CHANG: So what we do is
by using refill casks, which
are casks that have been used
repeatedly for many years.
Some can be as old as
40 to 60 years old.
But the thing is, once again,
because of the location
of Taiwan, which is subtropical,
in our very hot summertime,
the heat actually
managed to push
more wood related flavors and
also colors into the whisky.
So later, after the talk, we
have the so-called happy hour.
Feel free to try the
Kavalan Distillery Select.
When you look at the
color, you'll be amazed,
and you won't think that it is
a single malt whisky matured
in very old refill cask.
And that is all to do with the
combination of quality new make
and the heat of Taiwan.
NATE GANA: Yeah,
the heat of Taiwan.
I mean India, is producing
a lot too right now.
IAN CHANG: That's
right, that's right.
NATE GANA: It's such a unique
climate to be producing in.
IAN CHANG: That's right.
NATE GANA: So how did you
go from essentially zero
bottles in 2005 to
500,000 bottles annually?
Is that what you're
at right now?
IAN CHANG: 500,000 is
actually the old number now.
NATE GANA: Wow.
IAN CHANG: So we now do
nearly one million bottles.
NATE GANA: One
million per year, wow.
IAN CHANG: Per year.
But we still have
a long way to go.
Yes, but I would say two very
unique qualities of Kavalan
is that on the nose Kavalan
offers you that very refreshing
and also very clean,
fruity, floral characters.
But then on the palate,
Kavalan offers you
a nice, natural
sweetness, but also
the creamy and oily
character on the palate when
you drink the whisky.
NATE GANA: [INAUDIBLE].
IAN CHANG: So that makes
the whole experience
really enjoyable.
NATE GANA: Yes, and I agree.
Because as a judge in the
spirit of competition recently,
we tasted through 150 spirits
on the Friday and the Saturday,
and then top 83
spirits on the Sunday.
And we came out
with a $30 bourbon
as the world winner of
the best whisky, right?
IAN CHANG: That's right.
NATE GANA: And so it beat out,
I think, 300 other whiskies
overall.
And you think to yourself
that, you know you think whisky
or you think you know wine,
and you do a blind taste,
and the $30 bottle comes out.
So I think it's
important to have
your quality in your high end
but also quality in a lower end
price point that allows people
to get familiar with the brand,
and then move their
category and their palette
up to a higher place.
What would you say
the favorite of yours
is that you have produced?
IAN CHANG: Within our
portfolio, every one of them.
NATE GANA: That's cheating.
IAN CHANG: I mean, it all
depends on the occasions
and also depends on the
mood that you are in.
For example, the one
in the middle here,
this is our Kavalan classic.
I think this is a very good
everyday drinking whisky.
This is something that I have
in a decanter in my office.
Whenever I go back to the office
to prepare for the next thing
to do, whenever I
have a break, I always
have a small drum
of the classic.
NATE GANA: Wow.
IAN CHANG: But then
if you like something
that is all about
complexity harmony,
just like another brand
called the H something.
NATE GANA: Yeah.
IAN CHANG: This is
our answer to that.
NATE GANA: I see.
IAN CHANG: So even though
this one is a single malt
whisky, when you drink it,
you won't realize that this
is a single malt whisky.
You'll think that it is a
blend because it is so complex,
with so many layers of flavors.
Because in the
method of blending
this particular
expression, we have
used certain types
of casks to mimic
the effect of grain whisky.
NATE GANA: Right.
IAN CHANG: And then combined
with other types of casks,
it's like grain and malt
blended together, which
is just like a blend whisky.
So this is something
for our consumers
to try if they want
complexity and also
heavier weight in terms of body.
NATE GANA: Right.
IAN CHANG: Of the whisky.
NATE GANA: So oddly enough,
I first learned about Kavalan
here in Chicago.
I went to Binny's, and I
saw this beautiful setup.
And I thought, what is that.
And so you see Kavalan
now everywhere,
but one of the things
that is interesting
that's been a
common misconception
is the Solist line.
IAN CHANG: Right.
NATE GANA: So the Solist line
is sort of the higher end
range of the casks that
they have at Kavalan,
but one thing you've
noticed is that in America,
none of the bottles
say Solist on it.
Yet it is the identical
bottle without the writing.
So maybe you can clear this up.
IAN CHANG: Yes.
So in addition to these
three that we see here,
we have also another
series, which
is called the Solist series.
And what the Solists
series is about
is that they are
all cask strength.
Because in Taiwan, we
have many consumers.
I would say the majority
of our consumers,
they like to have their
whisky at cask strength.
Can you believe it?
Straight from the cask.
So normally the--
NATE GANA: Is that just
Taiwanese, or is that everybody
in general?
IAN CHANG: Taiwanese, and
also certain parts in Europe,
as well.
NATE GANA: Interesting.
Yes.
IAN CHANG: We have
a saying in Taiwan,
"there is no such thing
as a strong alcohol, only
weaker man."
[LAUGHTER]
No, I'm joking.
NATE GANA: I'm going to put that
on a notepad, and put that up,
and you look at it every day.
IAN CHANG: So they like
to drink cask strength.
And so it's all about
strength in the range of 53
to some even as high as 59.
So when we entered into the
US five or six years ago,
we also want to enter the
Solis series into the US.
But unfortunately we
were told that there
has been another company,
they have already
registered in the name Solist.
Here in the US.
NATE GANA: OK.
IAN CHANG: So that's why it's
a pity that we cannot use
the word Solist.
NATE GANA: Understood.
IAN CHANG: But if you go to
professional wine and liquor
stores, like Binny's
and other ones.
NATE GANA: Total Wine.
IAN CHANG: That's right.
Total Wine and so on.
If you ask them for Solist, we
do have them here in the US.
NATE GANA: You do, OK.
IAN CHANG: It's just that
they are not called Solist.
They are called, for example x
bourbon cask strength, or Vinho
Barrique cask
strength, and so on.
That's right.
NATE GANA: Yeah,
because I'm from Canada,
and in Canada we
have the Solist.
So I saw it here, and
I thought, OK, well,
that's the same thing.
It has to be.
Then I would look at
the labels, and they
would have the same, or if
not higher, alcohol content.
You know that's it's
going to be cask strength.
It's going to be
from the Solist line.
Interesting.
So what's next for
Kavalan in terms
of what you guys are producing?
IAN CHANG: So the next for
Kavalan, as mentioned just now,
we will produce also gins.
And also for the future, I
think beer is another product
we will produce.
NATE GANA: Really?
IAN CHANG: Yes, but
it's not called Kavalan.
It's called something else.
It's called [INAUDIBLE],,
[INAUDIBLE] beer.
So I think King Car
company, once again,
the company behind Kavalan, we
are thinking of moving forward
into the future with more
and more alcoholic beverages,
a bit similar to
a Suntory Japan.
NATE GANA: Right.
IAN CHANG: So in addition
to our non-alcoholic food
and beverage, I
think Mr. Lee, he
wants to go into the
alcoholic beverage industry.
That's, I think,
our long term goal.
NATE GANA: Interesting,
interesting.
So what is the reason that you
guys have never produced an age
statement whisky?
IAN CHANG: Yes, this is
a very good question.
We have consumers
asking us everyday,
are we going to
produce whisky with age
statement in the future.
At this stage, I would say no.
But having known Mr. Lee so
well, he's very unpredictable.
So you never know in the
future if we will do it or not.
But the thing is,
personally, I think it is not
really necessary to do so.
Once again, if you look at the
hot climate of Taiwan, which
is subtropical, if you come
to Taiwan in the summertime
between May and
October each year,
it is normally 38
degrees Celsius, which
I would say 90 Fahrenheit.
NATE GANA: Right.
IAN CHANG: Something like that.
So our evaporation is
actually quite high.
As you can imagine, if you
store your new make in a cask
for, say, 15 or 20 years--
NATE GANA: Yes.
IAN CHANG: With 8% to 10%
evaporation each year,
by the end of 20 years time,
you don't get much left.
All you get left is something
that is very woody and also--
NATE GANA: Makes sense.
IAN CHANG: Out of balance in
terms of fruitiness, floral,
and so on.
Because when you drink whisky,
you want the whole package
with the fullest
flavor and complexity.
NATE GANA: Absolutely.
IAN CHANG: But by
the end of 20 years,
with so much evaporating
into thin air,
I think we don't have much left.
And also we lose the balance.
NATE GANA: Yes.
IAN CHANG: So unless we can
do it in a different way,
but I think we cannot really
produce whisky with age
statement.
NATE GANA: Right.
IAN CHANG: Yeah.
NATE GANA: Well, I mean it
seems to be working for you
without the age statement.
IAN CHANG: Because
having said all this,
it's not really
necessary either.
Because when you try our whisky
later, like you have already
is tried to whisky for
within the [INAUDIBLE]..
NATE GANA: A lot of
your whiskies, yes.
IAN CHANG: You noticed
that, even though whiskies,
they are matured for a
short period of time.
But the maturity, the
complexity, they're
all there for you to enjoy.
Normally I usually use one
example to describe this.
When you go to Taiwan,
from north to south
it's 400 kilometers.
And before we had
the high speed rail,
it took five to six hours
time to take the train from
north to south.
But these days with
high speed rail,
you can complete the whole
journey in 90 minutes.
NATE GANA: Wow.
IAN CHANG: And why?
Because high speed
rail trains, they
have extra power, extra
energy, to run faster.
And we think of our maturation
process like a ordinary train,
but being pushed by the heat.
NATE GANA: Yes.
IAN CHANG: To go
much faster forward.
So by the end of
the process, you
will reach your destination--
which means in
terms of whisky you
will get everything
from the wood,
or from oxidation process,
from extraction process,
from the interaction between the
spirit and the wood, and so on.
They're all there
for you to enjoy.
So it's not really necessary
to mature our whisky
for a long, long time just
for the sake of having
a number on the bottle.
NATE GANA: Good point, and
actually speaking of that,
you just released the Kavalan X?
Is that is that
what it's called?
The 10th anniversary.
IAN CHANG: That's right.
So last year, it was the
4th of December on 2008,
that was the time when we first
launched our Kavalan Classic.
NATE GANA: OK.
IAN CHANG: So last year was the
10th year to celebrate that.
So Mr. Lee has decided
that also 10 years ago
when I went with him
to France, to Bordeaux.
NATE GANA: Oh, OK.
IAN CHANG: We actually went
to see the so-called the five
main chateaus in that area.
I'm not allowed to say the names
because of the nondisclosure
agreement and so on.
So basically these
five main chateau,
they produce very good wines.
At that time, we bought some
wine casks from these people.
NATE GANA: OK.
IAN CHANG: So when you mature
Kavalan new make in these wine
casks, the end
result is something
that is very exceptional.
NATE GANA: Yes, absolutely.
IAN CHANG: I always
say that it's
the combination of young
new make with the tradition
of these old chateau.
NATE GANA: Chateaus.
IAN CHANG: So the flavors
are really complex.
NATE GANA: Well,
you did a Pauillac
and a Margaux, is that correct?
IAN CHANG: So far.
NATE GANA: Right.
IAN CHANG: Yes.
NATE GANA: So far, oh.
IAN CHANG: We have another
three in the pipeline.
NATE GANA: Oh, OK.
I did not know this.
This is good.
Yeah.
Those two were phenomenal.
IAN CHANG: So these are
coming soon to the US.
NATE GANA: They are?
OK.
IAN CHANG: Yes.
NATE GANA: Yeah.
I got the chance to
try it in Europe.
So I'm very excited for
it to come to the US.
Yeah, but it's a
very limited run.
IAN CHANG: Very limited.
So in total 5,000 sets
for the whole world.
Because once again, if you look
at these five special producers
in Bordeaux, they don't really
release their casks easily--
NATE GANA: To anybody.
IAN CHANG: To whisky
industry or to anybody.
So at that time
we could only buy
limited numbers of these casks.
NATE GANA: Well,
I think that might
be the most creative combination
of whisky with chateau Margaux
and Pauillac.
I don't think I've seen any
brands do that too often.
IAN CHANG: There are some
distilleries doing that,
but I would say that
the results are not
as satisfactory
as when you mature
something in subtropical heat.
Yeah.
NATE GANA: Would you
say that the 2015 World
Whisky of the year that
was given to you guys
was a contributing factor
to the success right now?
IAN CHANG: The 2015
world whisky award.
NATE GANA: Yeah.
IAN CHANG: Awarded the
Vinho Barrique cask strength
as world's best
single malt whisky.
I would say that really
made Kavalan famous.
NATE GANA: Yes.
IAN CHANG: Both
here and in the US,
and also in Europe, and
also rest of the world.
So I think we are really
lucky to have that award,
to be awarded to Kavalan.
So.
NATE GANA: That's actually what
got me into Kavalan in terms
of what I tasted first.
IAN CHANG: I think it really
draws people's attention.
NATE GANA: Well it's a
red and white wine cask.
IAN CHANG: Yes, that's right.
NATE GANA: That was
previously used,
and was finished for you guys.
That's spectacular.
That was the first time
I'd had any cask that
did red and white wine
in it at the same time.
So it's very, very good.
IAN CHANG: That one
is very special.
If you would like to try it,
like Nate mentioned just now,
we use both red and also white
wine casks for the maturation
of that particular expression.
But if you look at the color--
it's not here, but if you look
at the actual whisky itself,
the color is a bit red.
So many consumers they
would think immediately
that matured in red wine cask.
But the thing is, we can
also create the same effect
with white wine cask.
Because at that time in
2008, once again together
with Dr. Jim Swan, we developed
this brand new innovation
of doing the so-called
STR process, which
means you have to do shaving,
toasting, and recharring.
NATE GANA: Of the barrel.
IAN CHANG: To the barrel.
The the wine cask.
NATE GANA: OK.
IAN CHANG: So that everything
becomes with a uniform quality
by the end of maturation.
NATE GANA: OK.
Wow, interesting.
So when we have here for
you guys today I think
is interesting because I
would say that the Distillery
Select is you can do both
whisky on its own neat,
or in a cocktail.
IAN CHANG: That's
right, that's right.
NATE GANA: Which is
kind of interesting.
IAN CHANG: Distillery
Select is actually
designed to be a very
versatile single malt
whisky, whether you like
it neat, or on the rocks,
or in cocktails.
Through the creation of
these artworks of cocktails,
of these mixologist, this
one is the perfect choice.
NATE GANA: I think
it's interesting
because I would say that
for me Chicago, personally,
is the best place in the US to
drink whisky or to find whisky.
IAN CHANG: Yes, I agree.
I agree.
NATE GANA: I think
the bar scene here
is incredibly diverse,
incredibly unique.
You can go anywhere
and find some
of the best malts
on the wall and have
some of the best cocktails.
I don't think any
other market in the US
really compares to that.
You've got New York,
which is great,
but New York knows what it has.
It knows that it's got
the financial ability
to charge these exorbitant
prices for certain things.
And I think that here in
Chicago, you come, and you
get a drink, and very good
quality drink, for a very
reasonable price.
And I think that's the
true sign of the industry
here that it's such
a diverse place
to get these types of products.
And so I just love
it here, and I
love that this is where
I met Kavalan, and fell
in love with it out here.
So Ian thank you
so much for this.
IAN CHANG: Thank you.
NATE GANA: I really appreciate
this thank you very much.
IAN CHANG: Thank you.
And thank you for
coming as well.
Cheers.
NATE GANA: Thank you
guys all for coming.
[APPLAUSE]
At this time I'd love to
open it up to you guys
if you have any questions
for Mr. Ian Chang here,
AUDIENCE: In your
introduction you
mentioned that Kavalan is one
of the most technologically
advanced distilleries.
Can you speak about that?
IAN CHANG: OK, so
what Nate meant
was at Kavalan,
because as you know,
we are a very young distillery.
This is only our 15th year
in the distilling operation.
So what we do is we
think that in order
to make sure that we
can obtain the quality,
we pay a lot of
attention to details
by using scientific methods.
For example, when it comes
to the milling process, which
is the first stage
that we do at Kavalan,
where you use mills to
break the multi barley into
define the course and the
flour, the three portions.
We always make sure that
our quality control people,
they do the this
size determination
work on a daily
basis to make sure
that this is at a
so-called golden ratio
of our golden ratio.
So that for the next
stage of our mashing,
we manage to extract the
maximum amount of starch
into glucose by the natural
conversion of internal enzymes
of the malted barley.
And this is, once
again achieved by using
very precise temperature
control equipment
that we have at the distillery.
So that during the mashing
process from the first water,
which is always 63.5
degrees Celsius, and then
the second water to be 85,
and a third one to be 90.
And then followed
by the fermentation,
where we also use the
so-called jacketed vessel,
so that we can run cold water
in the outside of the jacket
to control the temperature
during the fermentation
process.
Because this is,
once again, it will
affect the quality
of your wash, which
is the alcoholic, which
is also called beer,
can have a very high
content of alcohol.
Also very fruity, very
complex, the note.
So these are all just
some of these examples
of what we do to in order to
obtain quality in our product
by using scientific method.
And also when it comes
to the final stage,
we also use our
GCMS and also HPLC,
all these high tech
chemical analysis
to determine whether we have
the right amount of wood related
flavors, the right amount
of oxidized compounds
in order to contribute
to your good mouth feel,
and also the good fragrance
when you nose the whisky.
So that's what we do at Kavalan
in terms of scientific methods.
Thank you.
AUDIENCE: Are there any plans
to introduce a peated malt,
like a heavily peated malt?
NATE GANA: Oh, good question.
IAN CHANG: Wow.
I can see that you are a
connoisseur yourself, sir.
AUDIENCE: It's Chicago.
IAN CHANG: Yes.
When Kavalan first started
we produced 100% unpeated.
But after five years
ago, once again Mr. Lee,
he's unpredictable.
But one thing about
him is that he listens
to consumers' comments
and also consumers' needs.
So these days, we see that more
and more consumers globally
who like peated whisky.
So that was three
years ago, so 2016,
we started to produce
our peated new make.
So these are now in the process
of maturation in a warehouse.
Hopefully by early
next year, we should
be able to launch our very first
peated expression of Kavalan
for you to enjoy.
AUDIENCE: Please make
sure it hits the US.
IAN CHANG: Yes, yes.
Definitely.
NATE GANA: We'll make sure you
specifically get something.
So Josh, keep us in
touch, and we'll do it.
IAN CHANG: Yes.
NATE GANA: Wow.
That's really cool.
IAN CHANG: But one thing
about our peated whisky
is that if you like whiskies
like Ardbeg or, say--
NATE GANA: Laphroaig.
IAN CHANG: Laphroaig.
These are quite heavily peated.
NATE GANA: Yes.
IAN CHANG: So Kavalan's
peated single malt whisky,
I would say it is
very mildly peated.
So in terms of the so-called
the phenolic level, in terms
of parts per million, PPM, it
is about five to 10 PPM only.
So just enough for you
to notice on the nose,
but when you try it
on the palate, that's
when the all these
peated molecules and also
the fruity, all these
complexities will become alive.
So something very different
and also very unique as well.
AUDIENCE: So you guys talked
about your scientific process
and how you guys have a
lot of quality control.
And then you also paralleled
the tropical environment
towards the reason why you guys
are doing five year, ten year.
IAN CHANG: That's right.
AUDIENCE: But have
you guys considered
doing a temperature
controlled environment
in order to age
them in the barrels
to keep the evaporation
from happening,
or do you feel like the
tropical environment is
what really leads to
the distinct flavor
and personality in the Kavalan?
IAN CHANG: Yes, this is
a very good question.
This is all about finding
the so-called, the optimum,
the balance between
natural environment
but also refrigerated or
temperature controlled
environment.
As we know, if you can lower
the temperature of the warehouse
or the surrounding area
where you mature your whisky,
you can actually reduce
the Angel's Share, which
is the evaporation, but also
you can prolong the maturation
time.
But the thing is, when it comes
to the regulations in Taiwan,
we cannot really move
the unfinished product.
Where in our case, in
the case of whisky,
our government
considered whisky,
I mean new make in the cask,
are considered to be unfinished.
So you cannot move the content
and also the cask away from
a distillery.
Otherwise Mr. Lee
has actually thought
about moving our casks
with the new make them up
into the mountains, into
caves, or somewhere cool.
But once again the thing is he
also cannot wait for the whisky
to be mature so that we
can sell our expressions.
So these days I'm
actually working
on a very, very
special, I would say,
method or implementation
that we can
try to reduce the Angel's
Share without prolonging
the time of maturation.
So at the end of the day, once
again it's all about quality.
If we just want to put
a number on the label
to say that this is 12 years
old, 15 years old, or 20
years old, we would need
to do a very different way
of maturing our cask.
Our new make in the cask.
That is something that we
always think about internally.
Yes.
I know that since we launched
into the global markets
also in the sectors of duty
free and travel retail,
one of our very good partner
which is CDF, which operates
the duty free shops in
Hong Kong the airport,
they always want
Kavalan to come up
with a 12 years old
or 15 years old whisky
so that they can sell
in Hong Kong airport.
But so far Mr. Lee
still thinks that is not
really necessary to do so.
Thank you, sir.
Also a connoisseur
because you know
the balance between these two.
NATE GANA: Yeah.
AUDIENCE: Actually I did
have one more question.
IAN CHANG: Yes, please.
AUDIENCE: Have you guys
considered, since you
guys are considered the most--
technology-- wow,
I can't even speak.
Well, I work here, I promise.
It's considered an advance
distilling process.
There we go.
IAN CHANG: Yes, yes.
AUDIENCE: Have you guys
considered any kind of movement
based maturing processes?
I know that I think it's
one of the distilleries,
they stated that they could
be able to speed along
the effects of maturing
by putting casks
on like ships in the ocean
and the movement of the waves.
NATE GANA: The Jefferson.
AUDIENCE: Jefferson, exactly.
IAN CHANG: Yes, yes.
That's right.
NATE GANA: That's
a good question.
IAN CHANG: So we actually
have done something like that
already for the past 14 years.
Because if you come to see
us in the future to Taiwan,
you'll see that our maturation
warehouses, at the moment
we have two.
So both of them are
five story tall,
and within the
warehouse you actually
have temperature differences
between floors to floors.
So when I say that a hot
summer between May and October
each year, when the outside
is 38 degrees Celsius,
the inside can
actually be as warm
as 42 to 45 degrees Celsius.
So that is something
also very hot
just like on a boat if you put
everything in the trunk inside.
So the temperature is
very high in there.
And that's how we manage
to extracts the nice colors
from the wood into the whisky.
And also we purposely
shut all the windows
during our summertime so that
we can drop the heat in there
to create the so-called
artificial greenhouse
effect within the warehouse.
So that is something that
we do similar to the product
that you have
mentioned just now.
Yes.
But that's only good for color.
In wintertime, we have to open
all the windows to encourage
the cold air coming from
Siberia through Japan
and then come to Taiwan, which
is about today here 6 degrees
Celsius outside.
This is our super
winter in Taiwan.
So this is when we
encourage the cold air
to go into the warehouse so
that oxidation process will
take place really nicely.
Yeah.
Oxidation is inversely
proportional to temperature.
So if you want
good oxidation, you
need to keep your casks with
the content inside in a cooler
environment.
So warm summer,
relatively cold a winter
for about four to
five years time.
That's how we manage
to get that maturity.
NATE GANA: Thank you.
Yeah.
AUDIENCE: Here we go.
AUDIENCE: So I actually want
to change gears a little bit
from process and talk more
about the culture in Taiwan
around whisky and
alcohol in general.
This is a really
interesting case
since it was relatively
recently passed,
when the WTO changes occurred
[INAUDIBLE] opened up.
So yeah I'd love to talk
or hear your thoughts
on how you feel the
drinking culture has changed
or industry culture has changed
over the past 15, 20 years.
IAN CHANG: So since we joined
WTO, consumers in Taiwan
drink even more.
[LAUGHTER]
Because you can have opened
imports from around the world.
Before used to be
only our government,
they select what to import.
For example, at
that time, I don't
know for some reason
they really like cognac.
So cognac was the biggest
spirit in Taiwan before 2002.
So after we join WTO, we do
see a market that is more open,
and also consumers able to
try more different varieties
whether whisky, or wines,
or beer, and everything.
So the drinking
culture in Taiwan
is very much business related.
For example, we have to
entertain our clients.
So when we go to
business dinners,
that's when the volume
is really generated
because we have this culture
of doing Ganbei, which
means bottoms up in one shot.
I think Nate has experienced it.
NATE GANA: I have
experienced this, yes.
IAN CHANG: We all know
the distillery's Mr. Lee,
who is the ultimate
drinking machine.
NATE GANA: Yes.
Well, it's funny.
When we went to Taiwan, we
went to the German beer house
that you guys own.
IAN CHANG: That's right.
NATE GANA: What was
it called again?
IAN CHANG: It's [INAUDIBLE]
NATE GANA: Yes, yes, yes.
OK, so we went to a
German beer house,
and I thought this
is very different
for a Taiwanese whisky
company to be taking us
to a German beer house.
But sure enough, they had
all of the Kavalan whiskies
on the wall there.
And to speak to your
point, one thing
that I think that I
love about the brand
is that it's the only
brand in the world that
has their own stores.
So you go to Taiwan now
and there's Kavalan stores
throughout Taiwan.
Whereas you go here, and
there's a liquor store, right?
So it's liquor, we were talking
about yesterday, Liquor park,
or Binny's.
They're actual
liquor store names.
Over there, the Kavalan stores.
And so I found that really,
really interesting that
was the only market.
What was the reason for that?
Oh, because to be
honest, initially,
when we launched our very
first whisky, which is this one
here, back in 2008, on
the 4th of December,
I remember very clearly we
invited media people and also
wine and liquor shop owners.
No one was interested
in Kavalan because they
used to think that mainstream,
after all is, scotch.
And when it comes
to scotch, it's
always about 12 years old,
15 years old, 20 years old.
And they talk about the
tradition and the heritage
of hundreds of years.
So at that time, no one wants
to sell Kavalan or buy Kavalan
domestically.
So Mr. Lee Sr., he was
actually quite upset.
So he decided that, OK, if you
don't want to sell my products,
I'll sell them myself.
So he set up his own stores,
which is throughout Taiwan.
We now have 100.
NATE GANA: You have 100 stores?
IAN CHANG: Yes,
from north to south.
NATE GANA: Wow, I didn't
know it was that many.
IAN CHANG: So
these are the shops
where you can go and experience
the complete flavors of Kavalan
and also anything that
King Car group produces.
NATE GANA: Yeah, they're
brilliant stores.
They're very well
laid out, and I
think that speaks to the
Taiwanese culture post WTO
as well.
Because I don't know
of any other country
right now that
would allow a brand
to have a store apart
from the distillery
store on the distillery itself.
Right, so yeah.
Very open culturally
in that respect.
IAN CHANG: That's right.
So please come and see us
in the future if you can.
From Chicago, you
have direct flight
to Taipei, which is
13 hours, and then
from the airport
to our distillery
is less than two hours.
So in less than 20
hours, you'll be there.
[LAUGHTER]
And if you come,
as I always say,
I'll make sure that you
drink until you drop.
[LAUGHTER]
As much as you want.
You can even bring your
container with you.
I'll let you take away some.
NATE GANA: Anymore.
IAN CHANG: It's all
about moderate drinking.
[LAUGHTER]
NATE GANA: Drink responsibly.
Yes.
Good advertising for drinking
responsibly at the end of this.
Well, thank you guys so much.
This has been spectacular.
Really appreciate you guys.
And Ian, thank you
again for this.
IAN CHANG: Thank you, Nate.
NATE GANA: It was really good.
Thank you.
IAN CHANG: And before we end I
would just like to thank Google
once again for having us.
We really appreciate it.
NATE GANA: Thank you all.
Josh, you've done
an incredible job.
Fantastic.
IAN CHANG: That's right.
Thank you.
NATE GANA: And of course, I
hope you guys stick around
for a trial of all
these lovely whiskies
because they have
some fantastic stuff.
Thank you guys very much.
IAN CHANG: Thank you.
[APPLAUSE]
