 
OTHER INTEREST GROUPS ARE THEY 
WORKING FOR.
WHAT OTHER INDUSTRIES HAVE THEY 
MADE PROMISES TO.
ARE THEY GOING TO BRING IN 
PHARMACARE OR BEHOLDENLTS TO 
THE PHARMACEUTICAL INDUSTRY.
ARE THEY GOING TO TACKLE THE 
PROBLEMS THAT MAY SEE CLIMATE 
PRICES OR BEHOLDENLTS TO THE 
OIL AND GAS INDUSTRY, MUCH LIKE 
THE CONSERVATIVES ARE.
WE'RE DEEPLY CONCERNED ABOUT 
WHAT THIS SAYS ABOUT THE TWO 
STATUS QUO PARTIES.
>> Reporter: [INAUDIBLE].
>> [SPEAKING FRENCH].
>> Interpreter: MINISTER 
TRUDEAU WORKING FOR THE RICHEST 
CANADIANS.
THEY ARE TRYING TO MAKE LIFE 
EASIER FOR MULTIMILLIONAIRES, 
WHICH MEANS THAT IT IS MORE 
DIFFICULT FOR EVERYDAY 
CANADIANS.
AND THAT IS EXACTLY WHAT WE SAW 
WITH THE CONSERVATIVE 
GOVERNMENT AS WELL.
BOTH THE LIBERALS AND THE 
CONSERVATIVES ARE WORKING TO 
FACILITATE THE LIVES OF 
MULTIMILLIONAIRES AND MAKE IT 
MORE DIFFICULT FOR OTHER 
CANADIANS.
>> Reporter: [INAUDIBLE].
>> THE PUBLIC WILL MAKE A 
DECISION ABOUT HOW THEY SHOULD 
IN THE UP COMING ELECTION.
WE WANT TO MAKE SURE THAT NO 
GOVERNMENT AND AS SOON AS ANY 
CORPORATION IS FACING A 
CRIMINAL CHARGE, THAT THEY ARE 
NO LONGER ALLOWED TO LOBBY WITH 
THE GOVERNMENT.
THAT WOULD BE A CLEAR RULE AND 
THAT IS AN ENGAGEMENT, A 
COMMITMENT THAT I PUT IN MY 
VISION DOCUMENT THAT IF A 
CORPORATION IS FACED WITH A 
CRIMINAL CHARGE, THEY'RE NO 
LONGER ALLOWED TO LOBBY AND 
MEET WITH THE GOVERNMENT IN 
THAT MATTER.
THAT IS ONE STEP WE CAN TAKE.
BUT REALLY WHEN IT COMES TO 
THIS MATTER, WHETHER WE HAVE 
THE CONSERVATIVES OR LIBERALS 
IN POWER, BOTH OF THEM SEEM TO 
HAVE THIS TRACK RECORD WHERE 
THEY DON'T GET THAT THEIR JOB 
IS TO WORK WITH PEOPLE, NOT FOR 
THE PEOPLE AT THE VERY TOP.
AND THEY'RE NOT WORKING FOR THE 
BENEFITS.
-- BENEFITS OF EVERYDAY 
FAMILIES BUT FOR MILLIONAIRES 
AND THAT IS WHAT'S AT THE HEART 
OF THIS MATTER.
>> Reporter: [INAUDIBLE].
>> THAT IS EXACTLY IT.
HOW CAN THEY BE TRUSTED IS THE 
QUESTION I HOPE CANADIANS ASK 
THEMSELVES WHEN THEY'RE VOTING 
ON OCTOBER 21.
HOW CAN WE BELIEVE THAT MR. 
TRUDEAU MAKES ANY COMMITMENT ON 
PHARMACARE?
WE'RE COMMITTED TO THAT T.S IF 
HE MAKES THAT COMMITMENT, HOW 
CAN WE BELIEVE HIM?
HOW CAN WE BELIEVE HE IS MAKING 
A DECISION THAT BENEFITS THE 
PHARMACEUTICAL INDUSTRY.
IF HE MAKES A DECISION OR 
COMMITMENT ON THE ENVIRONMENT, 
HOW DO WE KNOW HE IS NOT GOING 
TO CAVE INTO THE DEMANDS OF THE 
FOSSIL FUEL SECTOR.
WE KNOW RIGHT NOW WE HAVE 
PROOF, WE HAVE EVIDENCE THAT HE 
CAVED TO THE DEMANDS OF 
SNC-LAVALIN, TO A POWERFUL 
CORPORATION, TO CHANGE THE 
LAWS, EFFECTIVELY GET THEM OFF 
THE HOOK AND HOW DO WE KNOW HE 
IS GOING TO DO THAT AGAIN?
WE DON'T.
I'M ASKING CANADIANS TO MAKE 
THAT CONSIDERATION WHEN THEY 
CHOOSE THEIR NEXT ELECTED 
OFFICIALS.
I THINK THAT IT IS BEST FOR 
PEOPLE TO MAKE A DECISION THAT 
IS IN THEIR BEST INTEREST AND 
NOT ONE THAT CONTINUES THE 
STATUS QUO, WHICH IS FAVOURING 
THOSE AT THE VERY TOP.
>> Reporter: [INAUDIBLE].
>> [SPEAKING FRENCH].
>> Interpreter: THE LIBERALS 
BECAUSE RIGHT NOW, WITH WHAT WE 
HAVE JUST SEEN WITH THIS 
REPORT, IT IS QUITE OFTEN THAT 
THE LIBERAL GOVERNMENT AND THE 
PRIME MINISTER ARE WORKING TO 
MAKE THINGS EASIER FOR 
MULTIMILLIONAIRES.
AND THAT MEANS IT'S MORE 
DIFFICULT FOR EVERYDAY 
CANADIANS.
HOW CAN WE BELIEVE HE WILL KEEP 
HIS PROMISES IN THE FUTURE?
WE CANNOT BELIEVE A LIBERAL 
GOVERNMENT AND WE CANNOT 
BELIEVE THE PRIME MINISTER.
SO I AM ENCOURAGING PEOPLE TO 
CHOOSE A REPRESENTATIVE WHO 
WILL BE WORKING FOR THEM, LIKE 
THE NEW DEMOCRATS.
>> IN HONG KONG, WE'RE SEEING 
TROUBLING REPORTS OF HUMAN 
RIGHTS VIOLATIONS.
WE'RE SEEING PEOPLE WHO ARE 
DISSENTING, WHO ARE PROTESTING, 
BEING TREATED WITH VERY 
HEAVY-HANDED POLICE TACTICS.
THIS IS DEEPLY TROUBLING.
WE'RE WILLING TO SEE OUR 
GOVERNMENT IS GOING TO CALL 
THAT OUT, SAYING THIS IS WRONG.
PEOPLE SHOULD BE ALLOWED TO 
VOICE THEIR CONCERNS AND NOT 
FEAR VIOLENCE FROM THE STATE OF 
THE HANDS OF THE POLICE SIMPLY 
BECAUSE THEY DON'T AGREE WITH 
THE GOVERNMENT POLICIES AND 
TRYING TO ADVOCATE FOR MORE 
DEMOCRACY.
[SPEAKING FRENCH].
>> Interpreter: WITH WHAT IS 
HAPPENING IN HONG KONG, I 
BELIEVE THE CANADIAN GOVERNMENT 
SHOULD SAY THAT WHAT THE 
CHINESE GOVERNMENT IS DOING IS 
SIMPLY NOT ACCEPTABLE.
IF SOMEONE WANTS TO EXPRESS AN 
OPINION OR IS IN DISAGREEMENT 
WITH THE GOVERNMENT, THEY HAVE 
EVERY RIGHT TO DO THAT.
>> Reporter: [INAUDIBLE].
>>'S REALLY CLEAR.
THIS IS NOT JUST A ONE-TIME 
EVENT.
THERE IS AN ONGOING TREND WHERE 
MR. TRUDEAU SEEMS TO BE WORKING 
TO USE HIS INFLUENCE AND HIS 
POWER NOT TO HELP PEOPLE, BUT 
TO HELP THOSE AT THE TOP.
ANOTHER CLEAR EXAMPLE IS A 
PHARMACEUTICAL INDUSTRY.
HE MAKES COMMITMENTS TO REDUCE 
THE PRICE OF MEDICATION.
HE ABANDONED THOSE COMMITMENTS 
AFTER BEING IN GOVERNMENT FOR 
FOUR YEARS.
AFTER MEETING WITH THE 
PHARMACEUTICAL INDUSTRY OVER 
600 TIMES, THE LIBERAL 
GOVERNMENT THAT WE KNOW OF 
THAT'S RECORDED, MET WITH THE 
PHARMACEUTICAL INDUSTRY AT 
LEAST 600 TIMES AND THEY 
ABANDONED COMMITMENTS TO REDUCE 
THE COST OF MEDICATION.
NOW THEY'RE MAKING THAT PROMISE 
AGAIN.
THE SAME THING THEY DID IN 2015.
AGAIN, HOW DO WE BELIEVE THEM 
WHEN WE SEE THAT THEY'RE 
WORKING TO USE THEIR INFLUENCE 
IN POWER, NOT TO HELP PEOPLE, 
BUT TO HELP THOSE WHO ARE AT 
THE VERY, VERY TOP.
AND THAT IS JUST WRONG.
>> Reporter: [INAUDIBLE].
>> YEAH.
>> Reporter: [INAUDIBLE].
>> THUMBS UP ALL AROUND.
WE HAVE ONE MORE QUESTION HERE.
OTHERWISE, FEEL FREE TO TAKE 
B-ROLL OR DO WHAT YOU HAVE TO 
DO.
NO PROBLEM.
STARING OFF INTO THE DISTANCE.
OH, YEAH.
I'M MEETING WITH -- THAT'S A 
GREAT QUESTION.
I'M MEETING WITH OUR LOCAL 
CANDIDATE AND A CITY COUNCILLOR 
WHO'S DEEPLY PASSIONATE ABOUT 
THE ENVIRONMENT AND WE TALK 
ABOUT HOUSING.
IT IS ONE OF THE BIGGEST 
CONCERNS THAT I HEAR ABOUT WHEN 
IT COMES TO THE UPCOMING 
ELECTION, WHEN I'M KNOCKING ON 
DOORS FROM COAST TO COAST TO 
COAST.
PEOPLE ARE WORRIED ABOUT 
HOUSING AND HERE IN B.C., ON 
THE ISLAND, IT'S NO DIFFERENT.
PEOPLE ARE REALLY WORRIED ABOUT 
THE COST OF HOUSING AND WE'RE 
GOING TO HAVE AN ANNOUNCEMENT 
ABOUT WHAT WE WOULD DO TO SOLVE 
THAT PROBLEM.
>> Reporter: [INAUDIBLE].
>> WHAT IS THE ANGLE.
LIKE THAT?
OK.
[PLEASE STAND BY]  APPLIED INAP 
PRESSURE TO BENEFIT A POWERFUL 
CORPORATION AND TO HELP HIS OWN 
RE-ELECTION AND THAT IS WRONG.
THERE WILL BE SOME EVIDENCE OF 
WHAT IS GOING TO HAPPEN IN THE 
FUTURE.
THAT SHOULD HELP PEOPLE MAKE A 
BETTER DECISION ON OCTOBER 21st.
THE PEOPLE REJECTED THE 
CONSERVATIVES AND NOW THEY'RE 
NOT GOING TO TRUST THE LIBERALS.
MAYBE THEY NEED TO CONSIDER 
MAYBE IT'S NOT A CHOICE BETWEEN 
THE LIBERALS AND THE 
CONSERVATIVES, BUT LOOK AT THE 
NEW DEMOCRAT PARTY FOR HOW WE 
CAN MOVE FORWARD.
>> WE NEED TO HIGHLIGHT THAT.
NO ONE WINS WHEN OUR PRIME 
MINISTER IS FOUND TO HAVE 
VIOLATED A CONFLICT OF INTEREST 
ACT.
THEY'VE GOT THE POWER TO CHANGE 
THAT.
THEY DON'T HAVE TO ACCEPT THE 
STATUS QUO.
THEY DON'T HAVE TO GO BACK TO 
THE CONSERVATIVES OR BE STUCK 
WITH THE LIBERALS.
THEY HAVE A CHOICE.
THEY CAN CHOOSE A NEW LEADER WHO
IS COMMITTED TO FIGHTING THE 
CLIMATE CRISIS AND TACKLING THE 
HOUSING CRISIS AND I'M CONFIDENT
CANADIANS WILL MAKE THAT CHOICE.
THANK YOU ALL.
>> THAT IS NDP LEADER JASMEET 
SINGH REACTING TO THE NEWS THAT 
WE ARE FOLLOWING TODAY THAT THE 
PRIME MINISTER JUSTIN TRUDEAU 
CONTRAVENED THE CONFLICT OF 
INTEREST ACT OVER THE 
SNC-LAVALIN AFFAIR.
YOU'LL REMEMBER THIS WHEN JODY 
WILSON-RAYBOULD, FORMER MINISTER
OF JUSTICE AND ATTORNEY GENERAL 
OF CANADA SAID SHE WAS 
IMPROPERLY PRESSURED BY THE 
PRIME MINISTER AND THE PRIME 
MINISTER'S OFFICE AS WELL AS THE
CHIEF OF THE PRIVY COUNCIL.
AND THE CONFLICT OF INTEREST 
OFFICER HAS SAID THAT THE PRIME 
MINISTER DID BREACH THAT 
CONFLICT OF INTEREST ACT.
WE HEARD FROM THE NDP LEADER 
THERE WHO JUST SAID THAT PEOPLE 
SHOULD BELIEVE HER, PEOPLE 
SHOULD BELIEVE JODY 
WILSON-RAYBOULD, THAT TRUDEAU 
SHOULD APOLOGIZE.
TRUDEAU HAS NOT APOLOGIZED TO 
JODY WILSON-RAYBOULD FOR THIS 
WHOLE AFFAIR.
AND THEN TALKING POLITICALLY 
ABOUT THE ELECTION, THAT IS 
ABOUT TEN WEEKS AWAY THE NDP 
LEADER SAYING THE CHOICE HAS 
BEEN IN MANY PEOPLE'S MIND 
BETWEEN THE CONSERVATIVES AND 
THE LIBERALS.
MAYBE IT IS TIME NOW FOR PEOPLE 
TO THINK ABOUT VOTING FOR THE 
NDP.
THAT THIS IS A NEGATIVE FOR 
CANADA.
NO ONE WINS WHEN THE PRIME 
MINISTER IS FOUND TO HAVE 
CONTRAVENED THE CONFLICT OF 
INTEREST ACT.
>>> JANICE MACGREGOR JOINS ME.
YOU'VE BEEN PORING OVER THE 
REPORT.
IT'S A LONG ONE, BUT THERE ARE 
SOME VERY KEY POINTS IN THIS.
BRING US THE HIGHLIGHTS.
>> GOOD LUCK.
63 PAGES OF FUN.
INTERESTING, A FEW THINGS.
I WILL TELL PEOPLE AND BY ALL 
MEANS GO READ IT IF YOU CAN, 
ESPECIALLY IF YOU SAT THROUGH 
ALL THE TESTIMONY LAST WINTER 
FROM THE KEY PLAYERS WE WERE 
ABLE TO HEAR FROM.
SOME OF IT IS REPETITIVE OF 
THAT.
SOME OF IT IS CONSISTENT WITH 
THAT.
BUT MOST INTERESTING TO ME, THE 
PRIME MINISTER WAS INTERVIEWED 
DIRECTLY.
WE NEVER SAW A REAL GRILLING OF 
JUSTIN TRUDEAU HIMSELF OVER 
THIS.
OF COURSE HE WOULD TAKE 
QUESTIONS AT DIFFERENT MEDIA 
NEWS CONFERENCES AND THINGS LIKE
THAT, BUT TO HEAR THE PRIME 
MINISTER'S WORDS ON THESE 
VARIOUS POINTS HAS MADE FOR 
INTERESTING READING FOR ME SO 
FAR.
TO REMIND OUR VIEWERS THAT THE 
ULTIMATE CONCLUSION HERE IS THAT
THE PRIME MINISTER DID 
CONTRAVENE THE CONFLICT OF 
INTEREST ACT.
I THINK WE HAVE A BOARD OF THE 
MONEY QUOTE FROM THE REPORT 
WHICH I WILL READ FOR EVERYONE.
 "THE PRIME MINISTER DIRECTLY 
AND THROUGH HIS SENIOR OFFICIALS
USED VARIOUS MEANS TO EXERT 
INFLUENCE OVER MS. JODY 
WILSON-RAYBOULD.
THE AUTHORITY OF THE PRIME 
MINISTER AND HIS OFFICE WAS USED
TO CIRCUMVENT UNDERMINE AND 
ULTIMATELY ATTEMPT TO DISCREDIT 
THE DECISION OF THE DIRECTOR OF 
THE PUBLIC PROSECUTIONS AS WELL 
AS THE AUTHORITY OF MS. JODY 
WILSON-RAYBOULD AS THE CROWN'S 
CHIEF LAW OFFICER."
THERE IS MORE THAN ONE POLITICAL
CAREER ON THE LINE HERE.
A NUMBER OF KEY POLITICAL 
STAFFERS THE OPPOSITION WANTED 
TO HEAR FROM DID NOT TESTIFY, IN
PART BECAUSE LIBERAL M.P.s DID 
NOT AGREE CALLING THEM BY 
WITNESSES.
THEY WERE REVIEWED BY MR. DION 
FOR THIS REPORT.
SOMETHING THAT'S OCCURRED TO ME 
AT LEAST THAT I FOUND 
INTERESTING WAS IT GOES THROUGH 
HOW WE GOT HERE.
THE FACT THAT JODY 
WILSON-RAYBOULD NEVER WANTED TO 
CHANGE THE RULES IN THE FIRST 
PLACE.
THERE IS A SECTION WHERE IT GOES
THROUGH HOW SHE REFUSED TO 
COOPERATE WITH THE OMNIBUS 
BUDGET BILL THAT MADE THIS 
DECISION TO HAVE A DEFERRED 
PROSECUTION AGREEMENT, 
REMEDIATION AGREEMENT EVEN 
WRITTEN INTO CANADIAN RULES.
THAT OF COURSE WAS WHAT 
SNC-LAVALIN WANTED TO USE TO 
AVOID A CRIMINAL PROSECUTION.
AND WHAT ALL THESE OFFICIALS 
WERE APPLYING PRESSURE TO TRY TO
GET HER TO RECONSIDER -- HER 
DEPARTMENT TO RECONSIDER 
INTERVENING TO ALLOW THIS TO 
HAPPEN, TO MAKE USE OF THIS NEW 
TOOL.
THERE IS A PARTICULARLY 
INTERESTING THING AS PERTAINS TO
FINANCE MINISTER BILL MORNEAU 
AND HIS CHIEF OF STAFF.
THIS BILL WON'T TAKE EFFECT 
UNTIL LATE SEPTEMBER.
ONCE IT DOES, SNC-LAVALIN IS 
GOING TO BE FORCED TO COME 
FORWARD.
THAT'S GOING TO BE IN THE MIDDLE
OF THE QUEBEC ELECTION CAMPAIGN.
A LOT OF PEOPLE, POLITICAL 
ADVISORS VERY WORRIED ABOUT 
THAT.
SO IN AUGUST THERE ARE 
DISCUSSIONS BETWEEN BEN CHIN AND
JESSICA PRINCE WHO WAS MS. JODY 
WILSON-RAYBOULD'S CHIEF OF 
STAFF.
NOW I'M READING FROM DION'S 
REPORT.
 "MR. CHIN STATED HE HAD BEEN 
SPEAKING WITH SNC-LAVALIN AND 
THAT THE COMPANY'S PERCEPTION 
WAS THAT THE PROCESS OF 
NEGOTIATING A REMEDIATION 
AGREEMENT WAS TAKING TOO LONG."
REMEMBER, THE BILL HADN'T TAKEN 
EFFECT YET.
 "MR. CHIN ASKED IF ANYTHING 
COULD BE DONE TO EXPEDITE THE 
PROCESS."  AND CLEAR FROM THE 
TESTIMONY THAT ON VARIOUS 
OCCASIONS PEOPLE WERE TOLD 
CLEARLY THAT DIRECTING THE 
DIRECTOR OF PUBLIC PROSECUTIONS 
WOULD BE INAPPROPRIATE.
AND THEN THIS IS THE PART I FIND
INTERESTING.
MR. CHIN, OF COURSE HE SUBMITTED
SOME DOCUMENTS TO MR. DION, 
STATED HE DID NOT RECALL WHAT 
LED HIM TO MAKE THIS INQUIRY OF 
JODY WILSON-RAYBOULD'S CHIEF OF 
STAFF.
NOW, THERE WERE SOME E-MAILS 
THAT ENSUED THAT WERE FORWARDED 
TO BILL MORNEAU.
BILL MORNEAU WAS INTERVIEWED BY 
MR. DION FOR THIS REPORT, BUT 
HIS TESTIMONY TO THE 
COMMISSIONER WAS THAT HE DOESN'T
RECALL READING THE E-MAIL ABOUT 
THIS CONVERSATION.
SO THE REPORT IS STILL A GEM.
I'M PULLING OUT ONE EXAMPLE, 
PERHAPS UNFAIRLY.
THE REPORT IS FULL OF EXAMPLES 
THAT MAKE YOU THINK, HMM, THAT'S
INTERESTING.
>> I WANT TO ASK YOU BECAUSE I 
THINK WHAT YOU SAID AT THE 
BEGINNING IS INTERESTING.
YOU'RE SAYING A LOT OF WHAT THE 
ETHICS COMMISSIONER IS REPORTING
IS BASED ON INTERVIEWS OR A 
CONVERSATION HE HAD WITH THE 
PRIME MINISTER THAT WE'RE 
HEARING ABOUT FOR THE FIRST 
TIME; RIGHT?
>> THAT'S RIGHT.
SO THE FINAL PAGE OF THE REPORT 
WAS KIND OF ONE OF THE MOST 
INTERESTING ONES FOR ME TO READ 
BECAUSE IT GOES THROUGH WHO WAS 
INTERVIEWED AND WHO SUBMITTED 
DOCUMENTS.
WE REMEMBER FROM LAST SPRING 
THERE WAS THIS BIG CONVERSATION 
ABOUT WHO WE NEEDED TO HEAR FROM
IF WE'RE TO PROPERLY UNDERSTAND 
WHAT IS GOING ON HERE.
WHEN I'M READING IT TELLS US 
WHAT TWO KEY OFFICIALS IN THE 
PRIME MINISTER'S OFFICE SAY 
ABOUT THEIR INTERACTIONS WITH 
SNC-LAVALIN ABOUT THEIR ROLE IN 
VARIOUS MEETINGS THAT WE KNOW 
WERE VERY KEY TO THIS 
CONVERSATION.
AND IT'S INTERESTING TO KIND OF 
GET THEIR PERSPECTIVE.
THEY WERE VERY CAUTIOUS IN THE 
WAY THAT THEY PORTRAYED SOME OF 
THESE CONVERSATIONS.
YOU CAN SEE EFFORTS BY THEM TO 
SLIP IN TO THEIR TESTIMONY TO 
THE ETHICS COMMISSIONER THAT 
THEY UNDERSTOOD THEY WEREN'T 
SUPPOSED TO INTERFERE.
THEY MADE IT CLEAR THEY 
UNDERSTOOD WHAT THE ROLE OF THE 
ATTORNEY GENERAL WAS.
THOSE SORTS OF LINES.
BUT NEVERTHELESS THE FACT IS -- 
AND MR. DION IS CLEAR ABOUT IT 
THIS IN HIS FINDINGS, THESE 
OFFICIALS WERE SPEAKING TO 
SNC-LAVALIN ABOUT WHAT 
SNC-LAVALIN WANTED DONE IN ITS 
CASE AT THE SAME TIME AS THEY 
WERE HAVING THESE CONVERSATIONS 
WITH JODY WILSON-RAYBOULD, WITH 
HER CHIEF OF STAFF, MS. PRINCE, 
AND OTHERS.
AND I THINK WHEN YOU KIND OF 
BOIL DOWN EVERYTHING MR. DION IS
PARSING HERE, THIS IS THE BIT 
THAT HE IS FINDING SORT OF IS AT
THE HEART OF THE 
INAPPROPRIATENESS OF WHAT WAS 
GOING ON.
OBVIOUSLY THERE IS A FINANCIAL 
BENEFIT FOR SNC-LAVALIN TO 
AVOIDING A CRIMINAL PROSECUTION.
THEY ARE FRAMING THIS IN TERMS 
OF POLITICAL CONSIDERATIONS FOR 
THE CANADIAN ECONOMY, LOSING 
JOBS, THAT SORT OF THING.
BUT WE ALSO KNOW THE POLITICAL 
CONTEXT THAT WAS MADE CLEAR IN 
THESE CONVERSATIONS TO MS. JODY 
WILSON-RAYBOULD AS A MEMBER OF 
TRUDEAU'S CABINET, THAT HE WAS A
MONTREAL M.P.
YOU KNOW THERE IS A QUEBEC 
ELECTION ON AND THIS VARIOUS 
TESTIMONY THAT'S KIND OF APPLIED
THAT POLITICAL PRESSURE AT 
VARIOUS POINTS.
>> SO, JANYCE, JUST TO CLARIFY 
THAT LAST POINT YOU JUST MADE.
YOU'RE SAYING DION, THE ETHICS 
COMMISSIONER, FOUND THAT THE 
P.MO. STAFFERS, THE TWO KEY 
PLAYERS IN THIS, WERE AWARE THAT
IT WOULD BE INAPPROPRIATE TO 
SPEAK TO THEN-JUSTICE 
MINISTER/ATTORNEY GENERAL JODY 
WILSON-RAYBOULD AND CHOSE TO 
ANYWAY?
>> MAYBE NOT EXACTLY LIKE THAT.
SO THEY TALK ABOUT THEIR 
PREPARATIONS FOR THE PRIME 
MINISTER, FOR EXAMPLE, BEFORE A 
KEY SEPTEMBER MEETING, WHICH IF 
YOU REMEMBER 
MS. WILSON-RAYBOULD'S MARATHON 
TESTIMONY AT COMMITTEE, THAT 
CONVERSATION BECAME VERY 
IMPORTANT IN THIS CONTROVERSY, 
PARTICULARLY HOW THE TWO 
INDIVIDUALS LEFT THAT 
CONVERSATION.
THEY SAID THAT WHEN THEY WERE 
PREPARING THE PRIME MINISTER, 
THAT THEY DID SORT OF HAVE VERY 
MUCH ON THEIR MINDS THE 
APPROPRIATENESS AND HOW TO 
PROCEED ON THIS.
BUT AT THE SAME TIME, ELSEWHERE 
IN THE REPORT AT SEVERAL POINTS 
THEY MAKE IT CLEAR THAT THEY 
WERE KIND OF SURPRISED THAT 
HAVING CREATED THIS TOOL, TO 
HAVE A REMEDIATION AGREEMENT, 
THAT IT WOULDN'T EVEN BE 
CONSIDERED OR USED.
FRANKLY, IN THAT RESPECT THERE 
ARE ASPECTS OF THE REPORT THAT 
ARE QUITE CONSISTENT WITH THE 
TESTIMONY WE HEARD FROM GERALD 
BUTTS ABOUT THIS.
SO I WAS ALSO FINDING THAT PART 
INTERESTING BECAUSE IT KIND OF 
SHOWS YOU KIND OF AN INSIGHT 
INTO WHAT WAS ON THEIR MINDS.
INDEED, THERE WAS ONE PART WHERE
THIS IS SORT OF TRUDEAU HIMSELF 
TALKING, BUT HE TOLD MR. DION 
THAT WHATEVER 
MS. WILSON-RAYBOULD WOULD 
DECIDE, HIS CONCERN, THAT BEING 
THE PRIME MINISTER'S CONCERN, 
WAS WHETHER THIS DECISION COULD 
BE EXPLAINED TO OTHERS IN 
GOVERNMENT AND TO THE AFFECTED 
CANADIAN PUBLIC.
SO THAT ULTIMATELY PART OF WHAT 
WAS ON THEIR MIND WAS THE 
COMMUNICATIONS CHALLENGE AROUND 
THIS.
YOU KNOW, IF SNC WENT DOWN AND 
WE LOST JOBS, WHAT WOULD WE DO 
IN THE MIDDLE OF AN ELECTION 
CAMPAIGN OR ABOUT LOSING JOBS IN
GOVERNMENT.
HER TESTIMONY IS REINFORCED IN 
THIS REPORT THAT WILSON-RAYBOULD
HAD A VERY STRICT FOCUS ON WHAT 
SHE FELT WAS PROPER FOR HER TO 
DO AND WHAT SHE FELT THE 
ATTORNEY GENERAL WAS AND WAS NOT
ALLOWED TO DO AS FAR AS 
CONVERSATIONS AND ANY PERCEIVED 
DIRECTION OF THE DIRECTOR OF 
PUBLIC PROSECUTIONS.
I HOPE THAT WASN'T TOO 
COMPLICATED.
IT'S IMPORTANT TO UNDERSTAND THE
DETAILS BECAUSE OTHERWISE YOU'RE
NOT GOING TO BE ABLE TO 
APPRECIATE WHAT THE PRIME 
MINISTER IS ABOUT TO EXPLAIN 
WHICH IS COMING UP SOON.
>> IT IS.
WE WILL HEAR FROM HIM.
JANYCE, THANK YOU, WE'RE GOING 
TO CONTINUE SPEAKING TO YOU 
THROUGHOUT THE DAY.
>>> ONE OF THE KEY QUESTIONS IS 
HOW IS THIS GOING TO PLAY OUT IN
THE COURT OF PUBLIC OPINION.
THE FEDERAL ELECTION IS NOT FAR 
OFF.
WE HAVE A PARLIAMENT HILL 
REPORTER WITH US MUNICIPAL 
HAVING YOU HERE IS FANTASTIC.
LET'S TALK A LITTLE BIT ABOUT --
LET'S PULL BACK JUST A LITTLE 
BIT.
YOU HAVE BEEN GOING THROUGH THIS
REPORT AND YOU HAVE FOUND A FEW 
AREAS WHERE THE ETHICS 
COMMISSIONER -- BASICALLY IT'S 
THE HEART OF WHAT THE ETHICS 
COMMISSIONER HAS FOUND IN TERMS 
OF FINDING THAT THE PRIME 
MINISTER CONTRAVENED THIS 
CONFLICT OF INTEREST.
>> RIGHT.
WHAT THIS IS IS HE SUMS IT UP 
ESSENTIALLY AS FOUR ATTEMPTS TO 
BEND THE WILL OF THE FORMER 
ATTORNEY GENERAL AND JUSTICE 
MINISTER JODY WILSON-RAYBOULD.
SO FOR THE FIRST ONE, THIS IS 
WHERE TRUDEAU AND AT THE TIME IT
WAS HIS TOP BUREAUCRAT, MICHAEL 
WARNICK WHO WAS IN CHARGE.
THEY HAD A MEETING AND TALKING 
ABOUT THOSE JOB LOSSES, YOU 
HEARD JANYCE SAY, LOOK, IF WE 
CAN'T GET THIS FIXED, THERE 
COULD BE JOB LOSSES AT 
SNC-LAVALIN IN QUEBEC.
THAT'S ONE OF THEM.
>> THAT'S ONE BREACH. 
>> ALSO INCLUDED IN THAT MEETING
IS WHEN TRUDEAU TALKS ABOUT, 
HEY, I AM ALSO A QUEBEC M.P.
I DON'T KNOW IF YOU REMEMBER 
THAT AS WELL, I HAVE TO FIND THE
EXACT PART.
BUT THESE ARE EXACT THINGS. 
>> AND THERE COULD BE JOB LOSSES
IN MY RIDING OR IN QUEBEC.
>> ABSOLUTELY.
THE SECOND ONE, TWO ATTEMPTS BY 
SENIOR OFFICIALS TO HAVE JODY 
WILSON-RAYBOULD INTERVENE IN 
THAT JUDICIAL REVIEW.
WE JUST HEARD FROM JANYCE THERE 
TALKING ABOUT THE SENIOR 
OFFICIALS GOING TO HER AND 
SAYING, MAYBE YOU WANT TO 
CONSIDER THIS.
THIS IS ALSO CONSIDERED 
INAPPROPRIATE PRESSURE BY THE 
ETHICS COMMISSIONER.
AND THE ETHICS COMMISSIONER IN 
THE THIRD CASE SAID THE PRIME 
MINISTER'S OFFICE WAS PRESSURING
HER TO SEEK EXTERNAL ADVICE ON 
THE MATTER.
THIS IS WHEN THE PRIME 
MINISTER'S OFFICE SAID MAYBE YOU
WANT TO GET THE ADVICE OF A 
FORMER SUPREME COURT JUSTICE ON 
THIS, AND THEN YOU CAN MOVE 
FORWARD THAT WAY.
THAT'S ANOTHER ONE.
BUT THE BIGGEST ONE HE SAYS IS 
REMEMBER THAT PHONE CALL THAT 
WAS TAPED BY JODY 
WILSON-RAYBOULD.
>> 17 MINUTES. 
>> IT WAS ON DECEMBER 19TH WITH 
THE COUNTRY'S TOP BUREAUCRAT, 
MICHAEL WARNACK, AND IN THAT 
CONVERSATION HE DIDN'T KNOW HE 
WAS BEING RECORDED, BUT HE TOLD 
JODY WILSON-RAYBOULD THAT THERE 
WAS RISING ANXIETY ABOUT THE 
FATE OF THAT MAJOR EMPLOYER.
SO THIS ISN'T THE FIRST TIME 
HE'S MENTIONED THAT TO HER.
HE HAD THE ONE-ON-ONE MEETING 
AND THIS IS THE PHONE CALL.
HE SAID HE -- JUSTIN TRUDEAU -- 
IS QUITE FIRM ON GETTING THAT 
DEFERRED PROSECUTION AGREEMENT.
AND I THINK HE'S GOING TO FIND A
WAY TO GET IT DONE ONE WAY OR 
ANOTHER.
THROUGHOUT THAT PHONE CALL JODY 
WILSON-RAYBOULD SAYS:  THIS IS 
REALLY INAPPROPRIATE.
I DON'T FEEL COMFORTABLE WITH 
THIS.
THAT IS WHY SHE SAID SHE DECIDED
TO RECORD THAT PHONE CALL.
IT HAPPENED WHEN SHE WAS IN 
VANCOUVER.
SHE SAID SHE DIDN'T HAVE ANY 
STAFF WITH HER AND SHE FELT SHE 
HAD TO RECORD IT. 
>> THIS WAS FOLLOWING A FEW 
MONTHS OF SAYING -- 
>> ALL OF THE PRESSURE SHE FELT.
THE ETHICS COMMISSIONER SAYS I 
FIND ALL OF THESE TACTICS 
TROUBLING WHEN REFERRING TO 
TRYING TO BEND THE WILL OF JODY 
WILSON-RAYBOULD AND, HE SAYS, 
THE MOST FLAGRANT ATTEMPT TO 
INFLUENCE HER WAS THROUGH THAT 
PHONE CALL.
>> YOU HAVE REACHED OUT TO JODY 
WILSON-RAYBOULD.
WE WERE GOING TO INTERVIEW HER 
TODAY.
TELL US A LITTLE BIT ABOUT HOW 
SHE'S REACTING. 
>> YEAH, WE WERE GOING TO 
INTERVIEW HER TODAY AND THE 
REASON WHY SHE'S NOW RUNNING AS 
AN INDEPENDENT IN VANCOUVER 
GRANVILLE AND LAST NIGHT THE 
LIBERALS NOMINATED THEIR 
CANDIDATE TO RUN AGAINST HER.
SO WE WERE GOING TO TALK A BIT 
ABOUT THAT, BUT OF COURSE SHE 
WON'T BE TALKING TODAY BECAUSE 
SHE SAYS SHE WANTS TO READ THE 
FULL REPORT.
SHE WILL GET A COMMENT BACK TO 
US AS SOON AS SHE GOES THROUGH 
THAT REPORT.
BUT LISTENING TO JANYCE, IT'S 
PRETTY THICK. 
>> ARE WE GOING TO HEAR FROM HER
TODAY?
>> WE DO HAVE A CALL INTO HER.
SHE SAYS AS SOON AS SHE GETS 
THROUGH THE REPORT SHE WILL GET 
BACK TO US. 
>> THANK YOU, HANNAH.
THERE ARE SO MANY ASPECTS TO THE
STORY.
IF YOU'RE JOINING US HERE, IT IS
JUST A REMINDER OF SOME OF THE 
KEY POINTS FROM THE ETHICS 
COMMISSIONER.
THE REPORT FOUND THE PRIME 
MINISTER CONTRAVENED SECTION 9 
OF THE CONFLICT OF INTEREST ACT.
THE P.M. USED HIS AUTHORITY TO 
CIRCUMVENT AND UNDERMINE THE 
PUBLIC PROSECUTOR'S DECISION.
YOU MAY RECALL THAT WAS THE KEY 
REASON NOT TO OFFER SNC A 
DEFERRED PROSECUTION AGREEMENT.
THE PRIME MINISTER AND THE TOP 
OFFICIALS SOUGHT TO HAVE THE 
ATTORNEY GENERAL'S DECISION, 
JODY WILSON-RAYBOULD'S 
OVERRULED.
THE REPORT ALSO FOUND THE STAFF 
WOULD NOT HAVE ACTED WITHOUT THE
PRIME MINISTER'S KNOWLEDGE ON 
THE SNC-LAVALIN MATTER.
THE COMMISSIONER ALSO STATED 
PARTISAN INTERESTS WERE PUT 
BEFORE THE ATTORNEY GENERAL FOR 
HER CONSIDERATION IN THE CASE.
>>> I WANT TO BRING IN THE 
CO-FOUNDER OF DEMOCRACY WATCH IN
OTTAWA.
DEMOCRACY WATCH WAS THE FIRST TO
FILE AN ETHICS COMPLAINT IN THE 
SNC-LAVALIN CASE.
WHAT IS YOUR REACTION TO THE 
ETHICS COMMISSIONER'S RULING?
>> THE ETHICS COMMISSIONER'S 
RULING IS GOOD AND BAD.
GOOD ON THE PRIME MINISTER, IN 
THAT HE WAS GUILTY OF VIOLATING 
THE ETHICS LAW.
THAT'S THE POINT AND THE 
ARGUMENT WE MADE IN OUR 
COMPLAINT AND THE RULING 
COMPLETELY AGREES WITH THE 
COMPLAINT FILED BACK ON 
FEBRUARY.
BAD A ON THE OTHER P.M.O. AND 
OTHER GOVERNMENT OFFICIALS WHO 
PARTICIPATED IN PRESSURING THE 
ATTORNEY GENERAL.
THE ETHICS COMMISSIONER SAYS 
THEY COULDN'T INFLUENCE HER 
BECAUSE THEY DIDN'T HAVE POWER 
OVER HER AND I'M GOING TO LET 
HER OFF THE HOOK.
>> SO THAT'S INTERESTING.
JUST UNLOAD THAT A LITTLE BIT.
WHEN YOU SAY GOOD ON THE PRIME 
MINISTER, GOOD THAT THE ETHICS 
COMMISSIONER IN YOUR OPINION 
FOUND THAT THE PRIME MINISTER 
CONTRAVENED THIS SECTION OF THE 
CONFLICT OF INTEREST ACT WHICH 
YOU BELIEVE TO BE THE CASE?
>> YES, THAT WAS THE ARGUMENT WE
MADE IN OUR FEBRUARY COMPLAINT, 
THAT IT'S IMPROPER TO PRESSURE 
THE ATTORNEY GENERAL BECAUSE 
THERE IS THIS CONSTITUTIONAL 
PRINCIPLE OF INDEPENDENCE OF THE
ATTORNEY GENERAL, YOU CAN SEND 
INFORMATION BUT THAT'S ALL YOU 
CAN DO.
THROUGH THEIR VARIOUS SPINS, 
PRIME MINISTER TRUDEAU AND 
GERALD BUTTS AND MICHAEL WARNACK
HAS THESE SPINS AND THEY ARRIVED
AT THE SPIN THAT NO 
INAPPROPRIATE PRESSURE WAS PUT 
ON THE ATTORNEY GENERAL.
THEY WERE ADMITTING TO 
WRONG-DOING WHEN THEY SAID THAT 
BECAUSE NO PRESSURE IS ALLOWED.
THERE IS NO APPROPRIATE THING 
ABOUT PRESSURE.
THEY PUT PRESSURE ON HER ALL 
TOGETHER AND THAT WAS IMPROPER 
AND IT WAS FURTHERING 
SNC-LAVALIN'S INTERESTS.
THAT'S WHAT THE RULING SAYS YOU 
CAN'T INFLUENCE SOMEONE'S 
DECISION TO FURTHER SOMEONE 
ELSE'S INTERESTS.
THAT'S WHAT THEY DID AND THEY 
WERE CLEARLY GUILTY.
AND THE ETHICS COMMISSIONER 
FOUND THEM GUILTY.
>> THE PRIME MINISTER 
E
CONTRAVENED SECTION 9 OF THE 
CONFLICT OF INTEREST ACT.
HE ALSO FOUND THE PRIME MINISTER
USED HIS AUTHORITY OVER 
MS. WILSON-RAYBOULD TO INFLUENCE
HER DECISION TO OVERRULE THE 
DECISION ABOUT WHETHER 
SNC-LAVALIN SHOULD BE ALLOWED TO
ENTER INTO A REMEDIATION 
AGREEMENT.
THAT IS THE KEY ASPECT OF ALL OF
THIS.
>> YES.
>> HOW SIGNIFICANT THIS FINDING?
>> IT'S A VERY SIGNIFICANT 
FINDING.
LOTS OF EVIDENCE IN THERE THAT 
RAISE SERIOUS QUESTIONS NOW FOR 
THE R.C.M.P., AND THEY SHOULD 
BE, ALONG WITH THE PROSECUTORS 
THAT THEY ARE CONSULTING, BE 
PROVIDING THE PUBLIC WITH A FULL
PUBLIC EXPLANATION IF THEY 
DECIDE NOT TO PROSECUTE THE 
PRIME MINISTER FOR OBSTRUCTION 
OF JUSTICE.
BECAUSE THERE IS LOTS OF 
EVIDENCE HERE THAT POINTS TO 
CROSSING THAT LINE INTO THE 
CRIME OF OBSTRUCTION OF JUSTICE.
AND THERE IS NOT -- IT IS NOT A 
SOLID LINE WHAT OBSTRUCTION OF 
JUSTICE IS.
THE CASE LAW ON IT REALLY LEAVES
IT AS SOMEWHAT VAGUE.
SO IT EASILY COULD BE SEEN AS A 
SITUATION THAT CROSSES THAT 
LINE.
IF THEY'RE NOT GOING TO 
PROSECUTE THE PRIME MINISTER 
BASED ON THE EVIDENCE IN THIS 
REPORT, THEN THEY SHOULD BE 
PROVIDING THE PUBLIC AN 
EXPLANATION AS TO WHY. 
>> OKAY, DUFF, LET'S BACK UP A 
LITTLE BIT BECAUSE I THINK WHAT 
YOU'RE SAYING IS INTERESTING AND
POTENTIALLY VERY DAMAGING TO THE
PRIME MINISTER.
SEPARATE FOR US, IF YOU WILL, 
WHAT IT MEANS TO CONTRAVENE A 
CONFLICT OF INTEREST ACT, WHICH 
IS AN ACT OF PARLIAMENT, VERSUS 
A CRIMINAL OBSTRUCTION OF 
JUSTICE CHARGE.
>> RIGHT.
WELL, THEY'RE BOTH ACTS OF 
PARLIAMENT, THEY'RE BOTH LAWS.
VIOLATING THE CONFLICT OF 
INTEREST ACT, THAT'S A FEDERAL 
ETHICS LAW.
THE ONLY PENALTY IS PUBLIC 
SHAMING BASED ON THIS REPORT AND
THE POLICE COST OF THIS REPORT 
AND RULING COMING OUT.
BECAUSE POLITICIANS HAVE WRITTEN
THIS LAW FOR THEMSELVES, AND 
PART OF THE PROTECTION THEY PUT 
IN IT WAS THAT THEY WOULDN'T GET
ANY PENALTIES.
SO PRIME MINISTER TRUDEAU SHOULD
BE PAYING AT LEAST A SIGNIFICANT
FINE FOR VIOLATING THESE RULES.
THE CONFLICT OF INTEREST ACT IS 
AIMED AT PREVENTING CORRUPTION 
BY PREVENTING POLITICIANS FROM 
DOING THINGS LIKE FURTHERING 
PEOPLE'S INTERESTS -- THEIR OWN 
OR FAMILY MEMBERS' OR OTHERS -- 
IMPROPERLY.
MR. TRUDEAU CROSSED THE LINE -- 
THAT'S WHAT THE ETHICS 
COMMISSIONER FOUND -- BY 
IMPORTION FURTHERING 
SNC-LAVALIN'S INTERESTS.
IN THIS CASE THE WAY HE WAS 
TRYING TO DO IT WAS INFLUENCE A 
PROSECUTION AND THAT RAISES A 
PART OF THE CRIMINAL CODE RULE 
THAT SAYS YOU CANNOT OBSTRUCT 
JUSTICE.
AND THAT'S WHY WE NEED AN 
EXPLANATION FROM THE R.C.M.P. 
AND THE PROSECUTORS THERE 
CONSULTING THAT IF THEY DECIDE 
NOT TO PROSECUTE PRIME MINISTER 
TRUDEAU FOR AN OBSTRUCTION OF 
JUSTICE, A FULL EXPLANATION WHY 
THEY WOULDN'T DO SO GIVEN THE 
REPORT. 
>> WHY WOULD YOU SAY, AND WE 
HAVE HEARD FROM ONE LIBERAL 
STRATEGIST SO FAR, WE WILL 
PROBABLY HEAR THIS FROM THE 
PRIME MINISTER, SAYING, LOOK, 
ALL I WAS DOING WAS HAVING 
CONVERSATIONS WITH THE ATTORNEY 
GENERAL, TRYING TO PROTECT JOBS 
IN QUEBEC, LOOKING AT A 
DIFFERENT OPTION, AT A 
DIFFERENT -- THE DEFERRED 
PROSECUTION AGREEMENT, AT A 
DIFFERENT POPULATION FOR 
SNC-LAVALIN BECAUSE THERE WERE 
THOUSANDS OF JOBS THAT WERE AT 
STAKE IN THE COUNTRY.
>> WELL, FIRST OF ALL, SEVERAL 
REPORTS AND INVESTIGATIONS 
LOOKING INTO THE SITUATION HAVE 
PROVEN THAT THAT WAS A FALSE 
CLAIM.
THEY REALLY HAD NO REASON TO 
BELIEVE THAT THE PROSECUTION 
ITSELF WAS GOING TO CAUSE SOME 
PROBLEMS FOR SNC-LAVALIN IN 
TERMS OF LOSING JOBS.
AND THE JOBS WOULDN'T BE LOST 
ANYWAY BECAUSE IT WOULD HAVE 
BEEN THAT THEY'VE BEEN BARRED 
FROM FEDERAL GOVERNMENT 
CONTRACTS.
SO OTHER COMPANIES WOULD BE 
PICKING UP THOSE CONTRACTS.
AND IF SNC-LAVALIN EMPLOYEES 
DIDN'T HAVE ENOUGH WORK TO DO 
AND WERE LAID OFF, THEY COULD 
HAVE BEEN HIRED BY THOSE OTHER 
COMPANIES.
THAT'S NUMBER ONE. 
>> WHY WOULD THE PRIME MINISTER 
RISK SO MUCH FOR THIS IF IT WAS 
FOR, AS YOU'RE POINTING OUT, 
NOTHING?
>> THAT'S A QUESTION FOR HIM.
SNC-LAVALIN HAD A HISTORY OF 
DONATING A LOT TO THE LIBERALS, 
AND MAINLY TO THE LIBERALS, 
INCLUDING MAKING ILLEGAL 
DONATIONS THAT WERE RETURNED AS 
THE COMMISSIONER OF ELECTIONS 
CANADA FOUND OVER A SEVEN-YEAR 
PERIOD MORE THAN $100,000 FLOWED
ILLEGALLY THROUGH MEMBERS OF 
SNC-LAVALIN AND THEIR FAMILY 
MEMBERS.
MAYBE THAT BOUGHT ENOUGH 
INFLUENCE WITH THE PRIME 
MINISTER TO HAVE HIM STICK HIS 
NECK OUT IMPROPERLY.
MAYBE THE PRIME MINISTER DIDN'T 
KNOW YOU WEREN'T SUPPOSED TO 
INFLUENCE THE ATTORNEY GENERAL.
THAT'S ENTIRELY POSSIBLE.
HE'S NOT A LAWYER AND MAYBE NO 
ONE EVER ADVISED HIM.
BUT IT SOUNDS LIKE PEOPLE WERE 
RAISING ALARM BELLS, SO I DON'T 
KNOW HOW HE CAN CLAIM AT THAT 
POINT THAT HE DIDN'T KNOW.
HE MAY NOT HAVE KNOWN WHEN HE 
FIRST STARTED TO PRESSURE HIM, 
BUT CERTAINLY DID AFTER THAT.
IT WON'T END UP BEING WORTH IT 
INCLUDING THE POLITICAL COST AND
THE POSSIBILITY OF BEING 
PROSECUTED FOR OBSTRUCTION OF 
JUSTICE, WHICH WILL NOT ONLY BE 
A POLITICAL COST BUT ALSO RESULT
IN POSSIBLY A CONVICTION UNDER 
THE CRIMINAL CODE.
VERY SERIOUS FOR A PRIME 
MINISTER TO EVEN FACE CHARGES 
LET ALONE A CONVICTION.
>> DUFF, GOOD FOR YOU TO TAKE 
THE TIME.
DUFF CONACHER IS THE CO-FOUNDER 
OF DEMOCRACY WATCH.
[♪♪♪]
. 
>> Andrew:  WE'RE GOING TO 
BRIEFLY TELL YOU ABOUT SOME 
OTHER NEWS TODAY.
IT'S EARLY MORNING IN HONG KONG 
RIGHT NOW AND THE CITY IS QUIET,
BUT JUST A FEW HOURS AGO THE 
STREETS SAW ANOTHER FLARE-UP.
PROTESTERS HAD GATHERED OUTSIDE 
A POLICE STATION TO PROTEST WHAT
THEY SAY IS POLICE BRUTAL CITY.
SOME DEMONSTRATORS AIMED LASER 
POINTERS AT THE BUILDING.
POLICE USED TEAR GAS TO DRIVE 
THE CROWD AWAY.
IT WAS THE FIRST INCIDENT SINCE 
AN OUTBREAK OF VIOLENCE 
YESTERDAY AT THE HONG KONG 
INTERNATIONAL AIRPORT.
THERE ARE STILL SOME PROTESTERS 
THERE, BUT THEY ARE RESTRICTED 
TO A SMALL AREA AND FLIGHTS HAVE
RESUMED.
>>> WE HAVE A FREELANCE 
JOURNALIST IN HONG KONG.
WHAT'S THE DEGREE OF SUPPORT THE
PROTESTERS HAVE AMONG THE 
POPULATION OF HONG KONG?
>> WELL, I WOULD SAY IT REMAINS 
STRONG AND THE SUPPORT IS 
BROADENING.
EVERY TIME POLICE UNLEASH TEAR 
GAS IN DIFFERENT NEIGHBOURHOODS,
HITTING NOT JUST THE PROTESTERS 
BUT ALSO BYSTANDERS AND LOCAL 
RESIDENTS, PEOPLE GET ANGRY.
SO MORE AND MORE PEOPLE ARE 
COMING OUT.
MEANWHILE, IRONICALLY, THE 
MOVEMENT HAS BEEN SUSTAINED MORE
BY HOW TONE DEAF TOP OFFICIALS 
HAVE BEEN.
SO FAR THEY HAVE REFUSED TO EVEN
ACKNOWLEDGE SOME OF THE PEOPLE 
MIGHT HAVE LEGITIMATE COMPLAINTS
ABOUT POLICE MISCONDUCT.
ALL THE WHILE THEY'VE BEEN 
DEFENDING THE POLICE TIME AND 
AGAIN AT PRESS CONFERENCES, AND 
THERE HAVE BEEN MANY, AT LEAST 
ONCE A DAY.
SO MAINLY THERE HAS BEEN CLOSING
RANKS BETWEEN THE PROTESTERS AND
THIS HAS GOTTEN EVEN MORE PEOPLE
ANGRIER.
>> Andrew:  WHAT WOULD IT TAKE 
FOR PEOPLE TO STOP THEIR 
PROTESTS?
>> WELL, IT'S ACTUALLY NOT THAT 
FAR.
IF ONLY, SAY, THE GOVERNMENT 
WOULD SET UP AN INDEPENDENT 
PANEL TO LOOK INTO POLICE 
CONDUCT, THAT WOULD ACTUALLY -- 
WOULD MAKE A GOOD SEGMENT OF THE
PROTEST MOVEMENT HAPPY.
OR THEY CAN ALSO, YOU KNOW, 
FORMALLY WITHDRAW THE 
EXTRADITION BILL WHICH IS THE 
START OF ALL NINE WEEKS OF 
PROTESTS, INSTEAD OF JUST 
CALLING IT DEAD, MEANING IT'S 
BEEN PUT ASIDE.
WHICH MEANS IT MAY WELL BE 
BROUGHT BACK TO THE LEGISLATIVE 
COUNCIL.
OR IF CHIEF EXECUTIVE CARRIE LAM
WOULD RESIGN, I THINK THAT WOULD
ACTUALLY MAKE A LARGE SEGMENT OF
THE PROTEST MOVEMENT VERY HAPPY.
UNFORTUNATELY, NONE OF THESE IS 
LIKELY TO HAPPEN BECAUSE FOR ANY
OF THESE TO HAPPEN, THEN HONG 
KONG AND BEIJING, BY EXTENSION, 
WOULD BE CONCEDING TO WHAT THEY 
ARE NOW CALLING EARLY SIGNS OF 
TERRORISM.
>> Andrew:  HOW CONCERNING IS IT
TO PEOPLE IN HONG KONG THAT 
THERE APPEARS TO BE TROOPS, YOU 
KNOW, AT THE BORDER OF THE 
TERRITORY?
>> IT HAS BEEN REPORTED A COUPLE
WEEKS AGO, BUT TO BE HONEST THE 
POLICE FORCE HERE HAS BEEN 
TRAINED AS A POWER MILITARY 
FORCE FOR HALF A CENTURY.
THEY HAVE AT THEIR DISPOSAL A 
LOT OF WEAPONS.
JUST TWO DAYS AGO THEY 
DEMONSTRATED THE USE OF 
ANTI-RIOT WATER TRUCK IN FRONT 
OF A GROUP OF LEGISLATORS.
SO IT'S REASONABLE TO ASSUME 
THEY PLAN TO DEPLOY THESE 
VEHICLES PRETTY SOON ON TOP OF 
THE RUBBER BULLETS, SPONGE 
BULLETS, TEAR GAS THAT THEY HAVE
SINCE BEEN UNLEASHING ON NOT 
JUST PROTESTERS AS I SAID BEFORE
BUT ALSO BYSTANDERS AND LOCAL 
RESIDENTS. 
>> Andrew:  VIOLET, THANK YOU.
THAT IS VIOLET LAW IN HONG KONG.
>> THANK YOU, ANDREW.
>> Andrew:  A REMINDER NOW OF 
THE BREAKING NEWS THIS HOUR.
CANADA'S ETHICS COMMISSIONER HAS
RELEASED HIS REPORT ON THE 
SNC-LAVALIN AFFAIR AND FINDS 
FAULT WITH THE PRIME MINISTER.
MARIO DION SAYS THE PRIME 
MINISTER BROKE THE CONFLICT OF 
INTEREST RULES USING HIS 
AUTHORITY OVER FORMER ATTORNEY 
GENERAL JODY WILSON-RAYBOULD.
HE SAYS TRUDEAU USED HIS 
INFLUENCE TO PRESSURE JODY 
WILSON-RAYBOULD TO DEFER 
PROSECUTION AGAINST THE 
SNC-LAVALIN COMPANY.
>>> HANNAH, DOES TODAY'S REPORT 
CHANGE THINGS?
>> I THINK IT DOES.
IF YOU LOOKED AT THE POLLS BACK 
IN APRIL WHEN THIS WHOLE SAGA 
BEGAN AND CONTINUED TO UNFOLD, 
YOU COULD SEE THAT THERE WAS A 
LOT OF BLEEDING IN THE NUMBERS 
FROM THE LIBERAL PARTY.
THE POLLING NUMBERS STARTED TO 
DROP AND FELL BEHIND THE 
CONSERVATIVES WHEN IT CAME TO 
THAT.
THERE WAS A LAST LITTLE BIT WHEN
THE STORY STARTED TO DIE AWAY, 
THEY STARTED TO PICK UP STEAM 
AGAIN AND IT LOOKED LIKE THE 
NUMBERS WERE STARTING TO GO BACK
IN FAVOUR FOR THE LIBERALS.
HOWEVER, WHEN YOU GET A 
SITUATION LIKE THIS, REMEMBER, 
JUST LESS THAN TEN WEEKS FROM 
NOW IS THE FEDERAL ELECTION.
THIS IS GOING TO BE THE CHANCE 
FOR CANADIANS TO ULTIMATELY 
DECIDE:  IS THIS SOMETHING THAT 
AFFECTS THEM WHEN THEY CAST 
THEIR BALLOT, THIS TYPE OF 
BREACH OF ETHICS WHEN IT COMES 
TO THE PRIME MINISTER?
SO IT'S GOING TO BE INTERESTING 
TO SEE.
YES, WHEN YOU LOOK AT ALL OF THE
OTHER LEADERS, THEY ARE ENSURING
THAT IN THIS PRE-ELECTION PERIOD
THEY MAKE THIS AN ELECTION 
ISSUE. 
>> Andrew:  WE SHOULD LET OUR 
VIEWERS KNOW THAT MOMENTS FROM 
NOW WE ARE EXPECTING 
CONSERVATIVE LEADER ANDREW 
SCHEER TO GO UP TO THAT 
MICROPHONE IN REGINA, IN 
SASKATCHEWAN, HE IS GOING TO 
SPEAK.
WE SHOULD ALSO LET OUR VIEWERS 
KNOW THAT AT 2:00 P.M. EASTERN 
TIME WE ARE EXPECTING TO HEAR 
FROM THE PRIME MINISTER.
PRETTY MUCH GUARANTEED EVERY 
QUESTION IS GOING TO BE ABOUT 
THIS. 
>> WHEN IT COMES TO ANDREW 
SCHEER TOO ONE OF THE THINGS WE 
ARE GOING TO CALL HIM CALL FOR 
AND YOU HEARD IT FROM DUFF C
CONACHER THAT THERE SHOULD BE AN
R.C.M.P. INVESTIGATION.
WE HEARD ANDREW SCHEER CALL FOR 
THIS BEFORE AND WE EXPECT HIM TO
REPEAT TODAY BECAUSE NOW THE 
ETHICS COMMISSIONER HAS COME OUT
WITH THIS REPORT. 
>> Andrew:  WHAT'S INTERESTING 
ABOUT THAT IS WE DON'T KNOW IF 
THE R.C.M.P. IS INVESTIGATING OR
NOT.
CONACHER IS SAYING THEY SHOULD 
IF THEY ARE.
IF THEY'RE NOT, EXPLAIN.
IF THEY ARE, EXPLAIN.
HE IS PART OF THE GROUP 
DEMOCRACY WATCH. 
>> THEY NEVER CONFIRM OR DENY IF
THERE IS AN INVESTIGATION.
ONE OF THE OTHER THINGS TOO WHEN
IT COMES TO THIS, YOU KNOW NOW 
MARIO DION HAS FOUND THE PRIME 
MINISTER IN BREACH OF THIS.
WHAT IS THE PENALTY FOR THIS?
THERE IS NO FINE FOR THE PRIME 
MINISTER.
THAT MIGHT BE INTERESTING TO 
SOME.
THE CONFLICT OF INTEREST ACT 
DOES NOT PROVIDE FOR THE 
IMPOSITION OF SANCTIONS FOR 
CONTRAVENTIONS FOLLOWING AN 
EXAMINATION CONDUCTED BY THE 
CONFLICT OF INTEREST AND ETHICS 
COMMISSIONER, MARIO DION.
THE ONLY PENALTIES UNDER THE ACT
ARE ADMINISTRATIVE MONETARY 
PENALTIES WHICH THE COMMISSIONER
CAN IMPOSE, BUT IN THIS CASE 
THEY SAY THESE PENALTIES DO NOT 
APPLY.
SO NO FINANCIAL PENALTIES.
I THINK WHAT WE'RE WATCHING FOR 
IS THAT THIS HAPPENING IN THIS 
PRE-ELECTION CAMPAIGN TIME AND 
THEN HOW IT WILL PLAY OUT IN THE
CAMPAIGN OF PUBLIC OPINION. 
>> Andrew:  WE'LL WATCH FOR 
THAT.
HANNAH, THANK YOU.
THIS IS WHAT WE'RE LOOKING AT.
WE'RE LOOKING AT LIVE PICTURES 
OF REGINA, WHERE THE 
CONSERVATIVE PARTY LEADER, 
ANDREW SCHEER, AS I'VE BEEN 
SAYING WILL BE MAKING A 
STATEMENT FOLLOWING THIS 
BREAKING NEWS INTO THE 
SNC-LAVALIN AFFAIR.
CANADIAN ETHICS COMMISSIONER 
RULED THAT TRUDEAU BROKE THE 
CONFLICT OF INTEREST ACT AND ANY
MOMENT NOW AS WE'VE BEEN TALKING
ABOUT, ANDREW SCHEER WILL GIVE 
HIS REACTION LIVE.
STAY WITH CBC AS WE CONTINUE TO 
FOLLOW THIS STORY.
HANNAH IS HERE WITH ME.
SO WE'VE HEARD FROM THE NDP 
LEADER JASMEET SINGH. 
>> WE'VE HEARD FROM SCHEER AS 
WELL.
HE DID TWEET.
THIS IS ESSENTIALLY WHAT WE'RE 
GOING TO HEAR FROM HIM THERE.
LIKE I WAS MENTIONING, HE HAS 
PREVIOUSLY ASKED FOR AN R.C.M.P.
INVESTIGATION INTO THIS.
I'M LOOKING FOR HIS TWEET HERE 
TOO.
HE DID TWEET OUT SOMETHING 
ESSENTIALLY SAYING THAT THEY'RE 
NOT HAPPY WITH THIS.
THEY GO ON TO SAY -- 
>> Andrew:  THE ONLY PRIME 
MINISTER TO BREAK THE CONFLICT 
OF INTEREST ACT NOT ONCE BUT 
TWICE. 
>> THEY SAID THAT -- YOU KNOW, 
THEY GO ON TO SAY HE SHOULD BE 
ETHICAL AND ACCOUNTABLE AND 
ANDREW SCHEER IN THIS TWEET SAID
HE USED THE POWER OF OFFICE TO 
REWARD HIS SUPPORTERS, PUNISH 
HIS CRITICS.
AND HE GOES ON TO SAY HE'S THE 
ONLY P.M. IN HISTORY TO BE FOUND
GUILTY OF BREAKING THE ETHICS 
LAW NOT ONCE BUT TWICE.
THIS IS THE SECOND TIME.
THE FIRST TIME WAS WHEN HE WENT 
TO THE AGA KHAN'S ISLAND.
THE COMMISSIONER DAWSON AT THE 
TIME FOUND THAT TRUDEAU'S VISIT 
TO THE ISLAND, THAT HE WAS 
GETTING ABOARD A PRIVATE 
HELICOPTER, BROKE SANCTIONS OF 
THE CONFLICT OF INTEREST ACT AT 
THAT BECAUSE IT PROHIBITS A 
MINISTER OR ANY MEMBER OF THEIR 
FAMILY FROM ACCEPTING GIFTS OR 
ADVANTAGES THAT COULD REASONABLY
BE SEEN AS INFLUENCING 
GOVERNMENT DECISIONS.
AND ALSO, TRUDEAU DIDN'T 
PROPERLY RECUSE THEMSELF AT THE 
TIME FROM OCCASIONS FROM THE $15
MILLION GRANT TO THE CENTRE FOR 
GLOBAL CENTRE FOR PLOOURELISM.
THAT WAS THE SECOND TIME.
THIS IS THE SECOND TIME.
IT IS THE ONLY TIME THE PRIME 
MINISTER HAS BEEN FOUND IN  -- 
GUILTY OF THE ETHICS CODE.
>> Andrew:  HE SAID PEOPLE 
SHOULD BELIEVE HER.
>> THERE WAS A LOT OF BACK AND 
FORTH AT THE TIME.
WAS SHE ANGRY BECAUSE SHE WAS 
DOING WHAT SHE WANTED AND THIS 
IS AN H.R. ISSUE, WHERE THE 
PRIME MINISTER SAID YOU GO DO 
THIS AND SHE DIDN'T WANT TO.
OR WAS THIS INAPPROPRIATE 
PRESSURE.
THAT WAS ONE OF THE QUESTIONS, 
AND IT WAS A DEBATE HAPPENING 
ALL THROUGHOUT THE INTERNET AS 
WELL.
>> Andrew:  AND ALSO, HANNAH, 
YOU KNOW, THE NDP LEADER IS 
SAYING THAT JUSTIN TRUDEAU 
SHOULD APOLOGIZE BECAUSE JUSTIN 
TRUDEAU HAS NOT APOLOGIZED -- 
>> HE HAS NOT.
>> Andrew:  -- TO JODY 
WILSON-RAYBOULD OVER ALL OF 
THIS.
HE SAYS THERE WAS A PROBLEM IN 
COMMUNICATIONS, THAT THEY COULD 
HAVE DONE THINGS BETTER.
BUT IN TERMS OF SAYING:  "I'M 
SORRY, I SHOULDN'T HAVE DONE 
THIS," HE HASN'T DONE THAT.
>> HE HASN'T.
HE HASN'T SAID SORRY TO HER.
I THINK HE PROBABLY HAS -- I'M 
TRYING TO REMEMBER THE EXACT 
WORDS, HE REGRETTED HOW IT 
UNFOLDED, BUT THAT SORRY WAS 
NEVER IN THERE.
IT WILL BE INTERESTING IF HE 
APOLOGIZES TO HER.
REMEMBER, SHE WAS ONE OF THE 
CABINET MINISTERS AND ONE OF THE
HIGHEST-RANKING MINISTERS IN THE
CANADIAN GOVERNMENT, SHE WAS THE
ATTORNEY GENERAL AND JUSTICE 
MINISTER.
SHE WAS THEN MOVED TO THE 
PORTFOLIO OF VETERANS AFFAIRS.
SHE SAID SHE TOOK THE PRIME 
MINISTER'S WORD FOR THE MOVE 
OVER TO VETERANS AFFAIRS THAT IT
DIDN'T HAVE ANYTHING TO DO WITH 
THE SNC-LAVALIN CASE.
THEN SHE SAID I REFLECTED ON 
THAT AND WHEN THE PRIME MINISTER
STOOD OUT THERE AND SHE STOOD 
BEHIND HIM, AND THIS WAS AT A 
PRESS CONFERENCE IN B.C., SHE 
SAID, HOLD ON, NO MORE.
SO SHE STEPPED DOWN AT THE 
MINISTER.
THEN HER AND JANE PHILPOTT, THE 
OTHER MINISTER WHO BACKED JODY 
WILSON-RAYBOULD, GOT BOOTED FROM
THE LIBERAL CAUCUS.
SO WILL THE WORD "SORRY" COME 
OUT OF HIS MOUTH, THAT'S A VERY 
GOOD QUESTION. 
>> Andrew:  IT IS A GOOD 
QUESTION BECAUSE THE PRIME 
MINISTER UP TO THIS POINT HAS 
SAID, LOOK, WE COULD HAVE DONE 
THINGS DIFFERENTLY, BUT THAT HE 
DIDN'T BELIEVE HE HAD DONE 
ANYTHING WRONG.
YOU APOLOGIZE IF YOU'VE DONE 
SOMETHING WRONG.
NOW YOU'VE GOT A ETHICS 
COMMISSIONER COMING OUT AND 
SAYING, YOU DID SOMETHING WRONG.
IT WILL BE INTERESTING TO SEE IF
THAT APOLOGY NOW HAPPENS IN A 
WAY THAT IT HAS NOT HAPPENED 
OVER THE SIX, SEVEN, EIGHT 
MONTHS OVER THIS.
>> THERE WERE A LOT OF 
REPERCUSSIONS FOR THOSE TWO 
WOMEN AND WILL HE FEEL LIKE HE 
NEEDS TO APOLOGIZE.
BUT ALSO THERE'S A LOT OF 
REPERCUSSIONS MAYBE POTENTIALLY 
WHEN IT COMES TO HIM.
WE'RE TEN WEEKS AWAY FROM THE 
FEDERAL ELECTION CAMPAIGN.
THEY STILL HAVEN'T DECIDED WHEN 
THE WRIT WILL OFFICIALLY DROP.
WILL IT BE A LONGER OR SHORTER 
CAMPAIGN?
THAT MAY COME INTO PLAY INTO 
THEIR MINDS NOW.
DO THEY NEED MORE TIME?
WE KNOW IT'S GOING TO HAPPEN ON 
OCTOBER 21.
WILL THE WRIT BE DROPPED THE 
WEEK OF THE LONG WEEKEND OR THE 
WEEK AFTER, SHORTER OR LONGER.
THAT WILL BE SOMETHING 
INTERESTING TO KEEP AN EYE ON.
>> Andrew:  WE KNEW THAT THE 
ETHICS COMMISSIONER WAS 
INVESTIGATING THIS, BUT I THINK 
IT CAUGHT SOME OF US A LITTLE 
BIT BY SURPRISE THAT THIS REPORT
CAME OUT TODAY. 
>> I WOULD SAY YES, AND THE ONLY
REASON FOR THAT IS YESTERDAY AT 
A PRESS CONFERENCE THE PRIME 
MINISTER WAS ASKED A QUESTION 
BECAUSE WE KNOW THAT FORMER 
JUSTICE MINISTER MCCLELLAN WAS 
DOING A REPORT FOR THE PRIME 
MINISTER AS TO WHETHER THE ROLE 
OF THE ATTORNEY GENERAL AND THE 
JUSTICE MINISTER SHOULD BE 
SEPARATE, LIKE THEY HAVE IN 
OTHER COUNTRIES.
HE WAS ASKED WHETHER HE WAS 
GOING TO RELEASE THAT REPORT, 
AND HIS RESPONSE WAS:  I'M NOT 
RELEASING IT UNTIL AFTER THE 
ETHICS REPORT COMES OUT.
SO DID -- IT DOESN'T SOUND LIKE 
HE KNEW THAT THAT WAS GOING TO 
HAPPEN TODAY.
THEY TYPICALLY DON'T GET A 
HEADS-UP WHEN THESE TYPES OF 
REPORTS COME DOWN, BUT THIS HIT 
LIKE A BOMB-SHELL TODAY AND IT 
WILL BE INTERESTING TO SEE HIS 
REACTION.
IN FACT, WATCHING HIS BODY 
LANGUAGE AND HOW NERVOUS HE 
FEELS ABOUT THIS.
>> Andrew:  THIS IS INTERESTING.
HANNAH, HOLD ON, STAY THERE.
WE'RE GOING TO CONTINUE OUR 
DISCUSSION.
IF YOU'RE JUST JOINING US, HERE 
IS A REMINDER OF SOME OF THE KEY
POINTS FROM THE ETHICS 
COMMISSIONER.
THE REPORT FOUND THE PRIME 
MINISTER CONTRAVENED SECTION 9 
OF THE CONFLICT OF INTEREST ACT.
THE P.M. USED HIS AUTHORITY TO 
CIRCUMVENT AND UNDERMINE THE 
PUBLIC PROSECUTOR'S DECISION.
YOU MAY REMEMBER THAT SNC SEEMED
TO BE HEADING TO COURT AND THE 
COMMISSIONER FOUND JUSTIN 
TRUDEAU AND HIS TOP OFFICIALS 
SOUGHT TO HAVE THE ATTORNEY 
GENERAL OVERRULE THAT DECISION 
BY THE PROSECUTOR.
THE REPORT ALSO SAYS SENIOR 
STAFF WOULD NOT HAVE ACTED 
WITHOUT KNOWING THE PRIME 
MINISTER'S POSITION OVER THE 
SNC-LAVALIN MATTER.
AND THE COMMISSIONER ALSO STATED
THAT PARTISAN POLITICAL 
INTERESTS WERE IMPROPERLY PUT 
BEFORE THE ATTORNEY GENERAL FOR 
HER CONSIDERATION IN THE CASE.
[♪♪♪] 
>> Andrew:  THESE ARE LIVE 
PICTURES OF REGINA WHERE THE 
CONSERVATIVE PARTY LEADER, 
ANDREW SCHEER, IS GOING TO BE 
MAKING A STATEMENT FOLLOWING 
THIS BREAKING NEWS INTO THE 
SNC-LAVALIN AFFAIR.
IT WAS EXPECTED TO START AT 
1:30.
WE SHOULD BE HEARING FROM ANDREW
SCHEER ANY MOMENT NOW.
AGAIN, THE CANADIAN ETHICS 
COMMISSIONER RULED THAT THE 
PRIME MINISTER BROKE THE 
CONFLICT OF INTEREST ACT.
WE HAVE HEARD FROM ANDREW SCHEER
ON TWITTER REACTING ONLINE, BUT 
WE ARE EXPECTING HIM TO MAKE 
SOME REMARKS AND PROBABLY TAKE 
SOME REPORTERS' QUESTIONS.
WE'LL BRING THAT TO YOU LIVE AS 
SOON AS THAT HAPPENS.
WE ARE GOING TO HEAR FROM THE 
PRIME MINISTER HIMSELF.
THAT IS EXPECTED AT 2 P.M. 
EASTERN, ABOUT 15 MINUTES FROM 
NOW.
WE WILL TAKE THAT LIVE AS WELL.
>>> I WANT TO BRING IN TRACY 
RAMSAY SHE IS A VICE-CHAIR OF 
THE JUSTICE COMMITTEE.
HERE WE HAVE FORMER CONSERVATIVE
CABINET MINISTER PETER MACKAY 
AND OUR OWN HANNAH THIBEDEAU.
>>> WHAT WAS YOUR REACTION WITH 
SEEING THE ETHICS COMMISSIONER'S
FINDING THAT THE PRIME MINISTER 
CONTRAVENED THE CONFLICT OF 
INTEREST ACT OVER THE 
SNC-LAVALIN AFFAIR?
>> THIS IS A BOMB-SHELL BECAUSE 
THE PRIME MINISTER HAS BEEN FOR 
MONTHS NOW MAINTAINING HE DID 
NOTHING WRONG, THERE WAS NOTHING
TO SEE HERE.
LET'S WAIT UNTIL THE ETHICS 
COMMISSIONER COMES WITH THE 
REPORT.
THIS REPORT TODAY TELLS 
CANADIANS EXACTLY WHAT THE NDP 
HAS BEEN SAYING ALL ALONG, THAT 
THE PRIME MINISTER WAS NOT BEING
TRUTHFUL AND WE NOW KNOW THAT HE
BROKE THE LAW AND HE POLITICALLY
INTERFERED WITH THE DECISION OF 
THE ATTORNEY GENERAL OF CANADA.
NOT ONLY THAT, MS. SMEARED 
MS. WILSON-RAYBOULD ALL THE WAY 
AS HE WAS GOING THROUGH THIS, 
REALLY KICKED HERSELF, KICKED 
OTHER MEMBERS OUT OF CAUCUS, 
JANE PHILPOTT OUT OF CAUCUS.
THIS HAS JUST BEEN FROM THE 
LIBERALS AN ATTEMPT TO KEEP THE 
TRUTH FROM CANADIANS, WHETHER 
THAT WAS IN THE JUSTICE 
COMMITTEE, OR NOW WE SEE IN THIS
REPORT THAT THE ETHICS 
COMMISSIONER IS SAYING THAT THEY
WERE KEEPING THINGS FROM THE 
ETHICS COMMISSIONER.
THEY WEREN'T EVEN PROVIDING ALL 
THE INFORMATION THERE FOR THE 
ETHICS COMMISSIONER TO DO A FULL
REPORT.
THIS IS DISTURBING.
IF CANADIANS WANT LIBERALS, 
YOU'RE GOING TO GET CORRUPTION 
BECAUSE THAT'S WHAT IT'S GOING 
TO EQUAL THIS FALL IN THE 
ELECTION.
THIS REPORT CLEARLY STATES THE 
MANY, MANY WAYS THAT HE 
INAPPROPRIATELY PRESSURED THE 
ATTORNEY GENERAL, JODY 
WILSON-RAYBOULD, AND SOME OTHER 
VERY DISTURBING ELEMENTS COMING 
OUT ABOUT THE FACT THAT AGAIN 
THEY'RE TRYING TO KEEP THE TRUTH
FROM CANADIANS.
THIS REPORT -- I DON'T KNOW HOW 
CANADIANS ARE GOING TO SEE THIS 
AND NOT FULLY UNDERSTAND NOW 
THAT HE BROKE THE LAW, NUMBER 
ONE; THAT HE INAPPROPRIATELY 
PRESSURED; AND THAT HE DID NOT 
TELL THE TRUTH TO CANADIANS.
HE WAS TRYING -- 
>> Andrew:  SORRY TO INTERRUPT, 
TRACY, WE'RE GOING TO TAKE YOU 
LIVE TO REGINA WHERE 
CONSERVATIVE LEADER ANDREW 
SCHEER IS SPEAKING.
>> TODAY'S VERDICT IS IN AND 
IT'S A GUILTY VERDICT.
JUSTIN TRUDEAU IS GUILTY AGAIN.
HEADING INTO THIS ELECTION, 
TRUDEAU HAS ALREADY BECOME THE 
ONLY PRIME MINISTER IN CANADIAN 
HISTORY TO HAVE BEEN FOUND 
GUILTY OF BREAKING ETHICS LAWS.
NOW WE KNOW HE'S DONE IT AGAIN.
EARLIER TODAY, AND FOR THE 
SECOND TIME IN JUST FOUR YEARS, 
THE ETHICS COMMISSIONER HAS 
FOUND TRUDEAU GUILTY OF 
VIOLATING THE CONFLICT OF 
INTEREST ACT IN CONNECTION WITH 
HIS ROLE IN THE SNC-LAVALIN 
CORRUPTION TRIAL.
TODAY JUSTIN TRUDEAU'S BECOME --
HAS BEEN FOUND GUILTY OF 
ILLEGALLY INTERFERING TO BLOCK 
THE FRAUD AND BRIBERY TRIAL OF A
LIBERAL-LINKED CORPORATION.
NOW, HIS FIRST VIOLATION FOR 
ACCEPTING A PAID VACATION ON A 
LUXURY ISLAND FROM SOMEONE 
LOBBYING HIS GOVERNMENT WERE 
SHOCKING.
THIS ONE IS UNFORGIVEABLE.
THE COMPANY WHICH HAD GIVEN 
$100,000 IN ILLEGAL DONATIONS TO
THE LIBERAL PARTY ITSELF IS, ON 
ITS OWN, CHARGED WITH DEFRAUDING
SOME OF THE POOREST PEOPLE ON 
EARTH OF OVER $100 MILLION.
WHAT WE HAVE NOW IS A CLEAR 
PICTURE OF WHO JUSTIN TRUDEAU 
TRULY IS.
IT'S NOT WHO HE PROMISED HE 
WOULD BE.
HE PROMISED HE WOULD BE 
ACCOUNTABLE AND ETHICAL.
INSTEAD, TIME AND TIME AGAIN, HE
HAS USED THE POWER OF HIS OFFICE
TO ENRICH HIMSELF, REWARD HIS 
FRIENDS, AND PUNISH HIS CRITICS.
AS THE ETHICS COMMISSIONER NOTES
IN HIS REPORT:
 "THE AUTHORITY OF THE PRIME 
MINISTER AND HIS OFFICE WAS USED
TO CIRCUMVENT, UNDERMINE, AND 
ULTIMATELY DISCREDIT JODY 
WILSON-RAYBOULD."
HE PROMISED HE WOULD BE OPEN AND
HONEST, BUT LET'S REMEMBER ON 
THE DAY THAT THIS STORY FIRST 
BROKE JUSTIN TRUDEAU DENIED IT 
COMPLETELY.
HE SAID THAT THE STORY WAS 
FALSE.
HE THEN SAID THAT HE NEVER 
PRESSURED JODY WILSON-RAYBOULD.
WE NOW KNOW THAT IS FALSE.
HE ALSO SAID THAT SHE NEVER CAME
TO HIM WITH HER CONCERNS.
AGAIN, WE NOW KNOW THAT WAS 
FALSE.
AND HE SAID THAT HE WOULD BE 
HAPPY TO WORK AND COOPERATE WITH
THE ETHICS COMMISSIONER, AND NOW
WE KNOW THAT IS FALSE AS WELL.
HE PROMISED HE WOULD BE 
DIFFERENT.
INSTEAD, WE NOW KNOW, BEYOND A 
SHADOW OF A DOUBT, THAT JUSTIN 
TRUDEAU IS NOT AS ADVERTISED.
HE HAS STATED SO MANY FALSEHOODS
THAT NO ONE CAN BELIEVE ANYTHING
HE SAYS.
NOW, TRUDEAU MAY NEVER FACE A 
COURT OF LAW FOR HIS ROLE IN 
THIS SCANDAL, BUT HE WILL HAVE 
TO FACE THE CANADIAN PEOPLE OVER
THE NEXT FEW WEEKS.
AND ON THE EVE OF THIS ELECTION,
THE CHOICE BEFORE CANADIANS HAS 
NEVER BEEN MORE CLEAR.
BETWEEN A PRIME MINISTER WHO 
ABUSES HIS POWER, BENDS THE LAW 
FOR HIS FRIENDS, ATTEMPTS TO 
SILENCE HIS CRITICS, AND 
DESTROYS THE REPUTATION, AND A 
CONSERVATIVE GOVERNMENT LED BY A
PRIME MINISTER WHO WILL UPHOLD 
THE RULE OF LAW, RESPECT OUR 
DEMOCRATIC INSTITUTIONS, AND 
HELP ALL CANADIANS GET AHEAD.
[SPEAKING FRENCH]. 
>> Interpreter:  ONCE AGAIN, 
JUSTIN TRUDEAU IS GUILTY.
BEFORE THIS ELECTION, JUSTIN 
TRUDEAU WAS THE ONLY PRIME 
MINISTER OF CANADA IN THE 
HISTORY OF CANADA TO HAVE BEEN 
FOUND GUILTY OF BREAKING ETHICS 
LAWS AND HE STARTED AGAIN.
TODAY FOR THE SECOND TIME IN 
ONLY FOUR YEARS, THE ETHICS 
COMMISSIONER HAS FOUND PRIME 
MINISTER TRUDEAU GUILTY OF 
CONTRAVENING THE CONFLICT OF 
INTEREST ACT IN RELATION TO THE 
SNC CORRUPTION TRIAL.
HIS FIRST MISTAKE WAS TO ACCEPT 
A PAID VACATION ON A LUXURY 
ISLAND, AND THAT WAS SHOCKING.
THIS SECOND ONE IS ABSOLUTELY 
UNPARDONABLE.
WE NOW SEE WHO THIS PRIME 
MINISTER IS, AND THIS IS NOT THE
PERSON HE PROMISED HE'D BE.
HE PROMISED TO BE ACCOUNTABLE 
AND ETHICAL, BUT AGAIN AND AGAIN
HE USED THE POWER OF HIS OFFICE 
TO ENRICH PEOPLE, REWARD OTHERS,
AND PUNISH OTHERS AGAIN.
AS THE ETHICS COMMISSIONER 
STATES IN HIS REPORT, THE 
AUTHORITY OF THE PRIME MINISTER 
WAS USED TO CIRCUMVENT, 
UNDERMINE, AND DISCREDIT JODY 
WILSON-RAYBOULD.
HE PROMISED TO BE ALL OPEN AND 
HONEST, BUT THE DAY WHEN THIS 
SCANDAL BROKE IN THE GLOBE AND 
MAIL, HE SAID IT WAS FALSE.
HE SPENT TWO MONTHS SAYING THAT 
THINGS -- THAT IT WAS NOT TRUE 
AND CONTINUED TO SAY FALSEHOODS 
TO CANADIANS, STATING HE HAD NOT
PRESSURED MS. WILSON-RAYBOULD.
HE HAD PROMISED TO BE DIFFERENT,
BUT WE NOW KNOW, BEYOND A SHADOW
OF A DOUBT, THAT JUSTIN TRUDEAU 
IS NOT AS ADVERTISED.
HE MAY NEVER FACE A COURT OF 
LAW.
HOWEVER, HE WILL HAVE TO FACE 
THE PEOPLE OF CANADA IN THE NEXT
FEW WEEKS.
AND BEFORE THIS ELECTION, 
CANADIANS' CHOICE HAS NEVER BEEN
CLEARER NOW:  BETWEEN A PRIME 
MINISTER WHO ABUSES HIS POWER 
AND BENDS THE LAW FOR HIS 
FRIENDS, IN THE PROCESS 
SILENCING HIS CRITICS; AND A 
PRIME MINISTER WHO WILL UPHOLD 
THE RULE OF LAW AND RESPECT OUR 
DEMOCRATIC INSTITUTIONS AND HELP
ALL CANADIANS TO IMPROVE THEIR 
DAILY LIVES.
THANK YOU VERY MUCH.
[END OF TRANSLATION]. 
>> [ INDISCERNIBLE ] -- 
OBSTRUCTION OF JUSTICE 
INVESTIGATION?
>> I CERTAINLY BELIEVE THAT 
THERE IS ENOUGH EVIDENCE HERE TO
WARRANT AN R.C.M.P. 
INVESTIGATION.
JUSTIN TRUDEAU HAS ATTEMPTED TO 
DISTRACT THIS SCANDAL FROM 
CANADIANS.
HE HAS USED THE POWER OF HIS 
OFFICE TO SHUT DOWN MULTIPLE 
PARLIAMENTARY INVESTIGATIONS.
WE NOW WE NOT ETHICS 
COMMISSIONER'S REPORT THERE WERE
SEVERAL KEY WITNESSES WHO WERE 
UNABLE TO TESTIFY TO THE ETHICS 
COMMISSIONER BECAUSE JUSTIN 
TRUDEAU BLOCKED THAT FROM 
HAPPENING.
SO I CERTAINLY DO BELIEVE THAT 
THERE IS ENOUGH HERE TO WARRANT 
A FURTHER INVESTIGATION BY THE 
R.C.M.P.
>> I JUST WANT TO ASK, THERE WAS
A FINDING HERE THAT THE LACK OF 
ACTION TO WAIVE CABINET 
COMPETENCIES IMPEDED 
INVESTIGATION BY THE ETHICS 
COMMISSIONER.
WHAT DO YOU CALL ON THE P.C.O. 
AND THE GOVERNMENT TO FIX THAT 
SITUATION?
>> Answer:  REMEMBER, HE TRIED 
TO CONVINCE PEOPLE THAT HE HAD 
LIFTED THE VEIL ON THIS BY 
HAVING A VERY SELECTIVE WAIVER, 
ONLY ALLOWING JODY 
WILSON-RAYBOULD AND OTHERS TO 
TALK ABOUT A VERY NARROW PART OF
THIS SCANDAL.
WE NOW KNOW TODAY THAT THERE 
WERE OTHER WITNESSES WHO HAD 
RELEVANT INFORMATION WHO WERE 
PREVENTED FROM SPEAKING BECAUSE 
TRUDEAU REFUSED TO GRANT THAT 
FULL AND COMPLETE WAIVER.
SO I WOULD RENEW MY CALL TODAY 
FOR THAT TO HAPPEN.
IF JUSTIN TRUDEAU BELIEVES HE 
DID NOTHING WRONG AND HAS 
NOTHING TO HIDE, HE SHOULD LET 
THE LIGHT OF DAY SHINE UPON THIS
ENTIRE SCANDAL.
>> Question:  EARLIER THIS WEEK 
TRUDEAU SAID HE'S COMMITTED TO 
RELEASING THE REPORT BY ANNE 
MCCLELLAN ONCE THIS REPORT WAS 
OUT.
HOW MUCH CREDENCE SHOULD 
CANADIANS GIVE THAT SECOND 
REPORT?
>> Answer:  I WAS NEVER PREPARED
TO GIVE THAT ANY CREDENCE.
JUSTIN TRUDEAU ASKED A FORMER 
LIBERAL TO INVESTIGATE HIS 
HANDLING OF THE SNC-LAVALIN 
SCANDAL.
SO I DON'T BELIEVE CANADIANS ARE
INTERESTED IN THE FINDINGS OF 
LIBERALS WHO INVESTIGATE OTHER 
LIBERALS.
THIS REPORT BY AN INDEPENDENT 
OFFICER OF PARLIAMENT CARRIES 
MUCH MORE WEIGHT AND SO 
THAT'S -- AND I MADE MY 
STATEMENTS TODAY DRAWING ON THE 
CONCLUSIONS FROM THIS 
INVESTIGATION BY THIS OFFICER OF
PARLIAMENT.
>> Question:  EARLIER THIS YEAR 
YOU CALLED FOR JUSTIN TRUDEAU TO
RESIGN -- 
>> Answer:  WELL, AT THIS POINT 
JUSTIN TRUDEAU NEEDS TO BE 
DEFEATED AND CANADIANS WILL HAVE
THAT OPPORTUNITY ON OCTOBER 21. 
>> Question:  WHY DID YOU CHANGE
YOUR POSITION, THOUGH?
>> Answer:  HE CLEARLY PUT HIS 
OWN PARTISAN INTERESTS AHEAD OF 
THE DEMOCRATIC INSTITUTIONS THAT
HAVE SERVED THIS COUNTRY SO WELL
FOR OVER 150 YEARS.
HE MADE THE DECISION TO STAY IN 
OFFICE.
NOW THE DECISION IS IN THE HANDS
OF CANADIANS' ON OCTOBER 21, AND
I BELIEVE CANADIANS WILL MAKE 
THE RIGHT CHOICE TO GET RID OF A
SCANDAL OF A PRIME MINISTER WHO 
USES THE POWER OF HIS OFFICE TO 
REWARD HIS FRIENDS AND A 
CONSERVATIVE PRIME MINISTER WHO 
WILL UPHOLD THE RULE OF LAW.
>> Question:  IF A PRIME 
MINISTER IS FOUND TO BE IN 
VIOLATION OF SOMETHING LIKE 
THIS, WHAT DO YOU THINK IS THE 
CORRECT RESPONSE?
ARCHTS WELL AT THIS POINT IN OUR
PARLIAMENTARY CYCLE THE CORRECT 
RESPONSE IS TO VOTE OUT A PRIME 
MINISTER WHO STILL CANNOT ACCEPT
RESPONSIBILITY FOR HIS ACTIONS.
CANADIANS WILL HAVE THAT 
OPPORTUNITY ON OCTOBER 21.
I'M CERTAINLY EXCITED ABOUT 
PUTTING FORWARD OUR PLAN TO 
RESTORE INTEGRITY TO CANADA'S 
GOVERNMENT AND MAKE SURE WE'RE A
GOVERNMENT WORKING FOR ALL 
CANADIANS.
JUSTIN TRUDEAU IS USING HIS 
OFFICE TO HELP A VERY SELECT 
GROUP OF HIS VERY RICH AND 
POWERFUL FRIENDS.
THAT'S NOT WHO THE GOVERNMENT OF
CANADA SHOULD BE WORKING FOR.
A CONSERVATIVE GOVERNMENT WILL 
HELP ALL CANADIANS GET AHEAD. 
>> Question:  WHAT IS THE 
CORRECT RESPONSE?
>> Answer:  HE SHOULD BEGIN BY 
ACCEPTING RESPONSIBILITY.
HE STILL HAS FAILED TO DO THAT.
HE REFUSED TO STEP DOWN WHEN 
THESE FINDINGS WERE FIRST PUT 
FORWARD TO PARLIAMENT WHEN WE 
HAD SWORN TESTIMONY AT THE 
JUSTICE COMMITTEE BY JODY 
WILSON-RAYBOULD THAT PROVED WHAT
JUSTIN TRUDEAU SAID WAS FALSE 
AND HE KNEW IT WAS FALSE AND HE 
REFUSED TO TAKE RESPONSIBILITY 
FOR HIS ACTIONS THEN.
I DON'T EXPECT HIM TO DO THAT 
TODAY, BUT CANADIANS CAN HOLD 
HIM RESPONSIBLE ON OCTOBER 21.
>> Question:  SO IN A SITUATION 
LIKE THIS YOU WOULD FEEL 
STEPPING DOWN WOULD BE THE 
CORRECT THING FOR A PRIME 
MINISTER TO DO?
>> Answer:  I THINK ANY TIME A 
PRIME MINISTER IS FOUND GUILTY 
OF BREAKING THESE RULES, THAT IS
THE CORRECT THING TO DO.
I THINK I MADE IT CLEAR MONTHS 
AGO WHEN JUSTIN TRUDEAU TOLD 
THINGS TO CANADIANS THAT WERE 
CLEARLY NOT TRUE.
WHEN HE WAS USING HIS OFFICE TO 
SHUT DOWN INDEPENDENT 
INVESTIGATIONS.
I MADE THE CALL FOR HIM TO STEP 
DOWN AND DO THE RIGHT THING 
BECAUSE HE LOST THE MORAL 
AUTHORITY TO GOVERN.
THIS REPORT REMOVES THAT BEYOND 
A SHADOW OF A DOUBT.
I DON'T EXPECT HIM TO DO THE 
CORRECT THING, BUT CANADIANS 
HAVE THE OPPORTUNITY TO HOLD HIM
RESPONSIBLE ON OCTOBER 21.
>> Question:  YOU WENT SO FAR TO
SAY HE USED HIS OFFICE TO 
PERSONALLY ENRICH HIMSELF.
I DIDN'T SEE ANYTHING LIKE THAT 
IN THIS REPORT.
CAN YOU EXPLAIN HOW YOU MADE 
THOSE ALLEGATIONS?
>> Answer:  FIRST OF ALL, WHEN 
HE ACCEPTED THE ILLEGAL GIFT, 
THAT WAS OF BENEFIT TO HIM.
IN HIS CONVERSATIONS WITH JODY 
WILSON-RAYBOULD, HE TALKS ABOUT 
HIS OWN SEAT BEING AT RISK, 
PUTTING HIS OWN PERSONAL 
AMBITIONS AND HIS OWN PERSONAL 
IDEAS AHEAD OF THE RULE OF LAW.
AND THE FOCUS THERE IS BEING 
THAT HE HAS INTERFERED IN A 
CRIMINAL INVESTIGATION TO 
FURTHER HIS OWN PARTISAN 
INTERESTS, HIS OWN PERSONAL 
INTERESTS IN HIS CAPACITY.
AND OF COURSE THE OTHER 
ACCEPTING OF ILLEGAL GIFTS PRIOR
TO THIS REPORT CERTAINLY SHOW 
THAT HE HAS A PATTERN OF 
BREAKING THESE TYPES OF LAWS.
>> Question:  
[ INDISCERNIBLE ] -- IF A MEMBER
OF YOUR CAUCUS WOULD BREAK 
ETHICS COMMISSIONER RULES, WHAT 
WOULD YOUR COURSE OF ACTION BE, 
WOULD THEY BE EXPELLED FROM 
CAUCUS IF THEY'RE FOUND GUILTY?
>> Answer:  OBVIOUSLY WE'RE 
GOING TO HOLD OURSELVES TO A 
HIGH ACCOUNT WHEN IT COMES TO 
INTEGRITY AND ETHICS.
I EXPECT ALL MEMBERS OF MY TEAM 
TO FOLLOW THOSE RULES.
I CAN ASSURE YOU THAT NEITHER 
MYSELF NOR ANYONE IN OUR 
GOVERNMENT WILL USE THE POWER OF
THEIR OFFICE TO INTERFERE IN 
INDEPENDENT PROSECUTORIAL 
DECISIONS.
THIS IS WHAT THIS WHOLE QUESTION
IS ABOUT.
WE HAVE A COMPANY THAT'S FACING 
SERIOUS CORRUPTION CHARGES FOR 
DEFRAUDING SOME OF THE WORLD'S 
POOREST PEOPLE.
WHEN THEY ARE BEING HELD 
ACCOUNTABLE IN CANADIAN COURTS, 
THEY LEAN ON JUSTIN TRUDEAU AND 
THEIR FRIENDS IN THE PRIME 
MINISTER'S OFFICE TO INTERFERE 
TO GET A SPECIAL DEAL.
THAT'S -- TO GET THE TRIAL 
STOPPED.
THAT IS AN UNFORGIVEABLE ASSAULT
ON THE INDEPENDENCE OF OUR RULE 
OF LAW AND THE INDEPENDENCE OF 
OUR JUSTICE SYSTEM.
THAT IS WHY JUSTIN TRUDEAU NEEDS
TO BE HELD ACCOUNTABLE AND I'M 
CONFIDENT THAT CANADIANS WILL DO
THAT.
>> Question:  
[ INDISCERNIBLE ] -- 
>> Answer:  WELL, OBVIOUSLY -- 
LOOK, THIS IS A LIBERAL PARTY 
PROBLEM.
THIS IS A LIBERAL GOVERNMENT, A 
LIBERAL PARTY THAT HAS NEVER IN 
ITS HISTORY BEEN ABLE TO TELL 
THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN WHEN THE 
LIBERAL PARTY OF CANADA STOPS 
AND THE GOVERNMENT OF CANADA 
THAT'S MEANT TO GOVERN FOR ALL 
CANADIANS STARTS.
IN FUTURE GOVERNMENTS ALL 
MEMBERS OF PARLIAMENT WILL BE 
EXPECTED TO LIVE UP TO THE VERY 
HIGHEST STANDARDS OF ETHICS AND 
ACCOUNTABILITY AND WE'LL MAKE 
SURE THAT HAPPENS.
>> Question:  
[ INDISCERNIBLE ] -- 
>> Answer:  SO ABSOLUTELY.
I WAS JUST ASKED A QUESTION ON 
WHETHER OR NOT THE R.C.M.P. 
SHOULD LOOK INTO THAT.
WE DO BELIEVE THAT IS 
APPROPRIATE.
WE CALLED FOR THAT TO HAPPEN AT 
THE TIME THESE ALLEGATIONS WERE 
FIRST BROUGHT UP.
WE'LL BE LOOKING AT WHAT OUR 
OPTIONS ARE IN THE COMING DAYS 
AND WE'LL HAVE MORE TO SAY ON 
THAT IN THE NEAR FUTURE. 
>> Question:  MR. SCHEER, DO YOU
THINK CANADIANS ARE INVESTED 
ENOUGH IN THIS ISSUE FOR THIS TO
BE A KEY POINT IN THE FALL 
FEDERAL ELECTION?
>> Answer:  I DO BELIEVE 
CANADIANS CARE ABOUT THE JUSTICE
SYSTEM AND THEY CARE WHEN THERE 
ARE PEOPLE IN POWERFUL OFFICES 
TO FURTHER THEIR OWN SELF 
INTEREST AND TO UNDERMINE ONE OF
THE PILLARS OF THE DEMOCRATIC 
INSTITUTIONS.
CANADIANS UNDERSTAND WE HAVE TO 
BE VIGILANT AGAINST THOSE WHO 
WANT TO ABUSE THE POWER OF THEIR
OFFICE AND ENGAGE IN THIS TYPE 
OF CORRUPT BEHAVIOUR AND I DO 
BELIEVE THIS WILL BE TOP OF MIND
IN THIS ELECTION.
>> Question:  
[ INDISCERNIBLE ] -- 
>> Answer:  WELL, WE NEED TO 
KNOW THE FULL DETAILS.
JODY WILSON-RAYBOULD HAS ALREADY
SAID MULTIPLE TIMES THAT THERE 
IS MORE THAT SHE WOULD LIKE TO 
SAY BUT CAN'T BECAUSE THAT FULL 
WAIVER WAS NOT GRANTED.
WE WOULD NEED TO KNOW WHAT SHE 
WOULD ADD TO THIS.
WE KNOW THERE ARE MULTIPLE 
PEOPLE THE ETHICS COMMISSIONER 
ATTEMPTED TO CONTACT AND THEY 
WERE PREVENTED FROM TESTIFYING.
WE NEED TO KNOW WHAT THEY WOULD 
SAY.
THE FACT THAT JUSTIN TRUDEAU IS 
GOING TO SUCH GREAT LENGTHS TO 
COVER UP, TO BLOCK 
INVESTIGATIONS, TO CANCEL 
INQUIRIES INTO THIS MATTER TELLS
ME AND ALL CANADIANS THAT THERE 
IS MORE TO THIS STORY THAT 
CANADIANS NEED TO KNOW. 
>> Question:  IF YOU WON THE 
ELECTION WOULD YOU SEPARATE THE 
ROLES OF THE ATTORNEY GENERAL 
AND THE JUSTICE MINISTER?
>> Answer:  THIS IS NOT A 
PROBLEM OF WHAT OTHER ROLES JODY
WILSON-RAYBOULD HAD.
IN ORDER TO PREVENT THIS FROM 
HAPPENING IN THE FUTURE, WE NEED
TO REPLACE THIS PRIME MINISTER.
JUSTIN TRUDEAU BULLIED THE 
ATTORNEY GENERAL.
IT DOESN'T MATTER WHAT OTHER 
TITLES THE ATTORNEY GENERAL HAD.
HE WAS SPEAKING TO JODY 
WILSON-RAYBOULD IN HER CAPACITY 
AS THE ATTORNEY GENERAL BECAUSE 
SHE HAD THE POWER TO INTERVENE 
IN THIS CRIMINAL PROSECUTION.
THAT IS THE ESSENCE OF THIS 
PROBLEM.
JUSTIN TRUDEAU MAY TRY TO SAY 
LATER ON TODAY OR IN THE DAYS 
THAT COME THAT THIS WAS THE 
RESULT OF SOME KIND OF 
STRUCTURAL PROBLEM IN THE 
CABINET, IN THE PRIME MINISTER'S
OFFICE.
THAT IS COMPLETELY FALSE.
THE STRUCTURAL PROBLEM WAS THAT 
JUSTIN TRUDEAU ATTEMPTED TO 
INTERFERE IN A CRIMINAL 
PROSECUTION.
THAT WOULD HAVE HAPPENED NO 
MATTER WHAT TYPE OF DYNAMIC 
EXISTED WITH WHO -- WHAT OTHER 
ROLES THE ATTORNEY GENERAL HAD.
SO AGAIN, THE FOCUS HERE IS THE 
WAY THAT JUSTIN TRUDEAU BULLIED,
ATTEMPTED TO INTERFERE, AND THEN
DENIED SO BLATANTLY, SAYING 
THINGS THAT WERE SO BLATANTLY 
UNTRUE TO CANADIANS FOR WEEKS 
AND MONTHS AT A TIME.
KNOWING THAT THE TRUTH WOULD 
EVENTUALLY COME OUT, IT'S SO 
DISAPPOINTING TO SEE A PRIME 
MINISTER DESPERATELY ATTEMPT TO 
CLING TO POWER BY SAYING SO MANY
FALSEHOODS.
WE JUST CAN'T BELIEVE ANYTHING 
THIS GUY SAYS ANYMORE.
THANK YOU VERY MUCH, EVERYONE.
>> Andrew:  THAT IS CONSERVATIVE
LEADER, ANDREW SCHEER, 
RESPONDING TO THE ETHICS 
COMMISSIONER'S REPORT THAT WAS 
RELEASED JUST A COUPLE OF HOURS 
AGO IN WHICH MARIO DION FOUND 
THE PRIME MINISTER TO BE IN 
CONTRAVENTION OF THE CONFLICT OF
INTEREST ACT OVER THE WHOLE 
SNC-LAVALIN AFFAIR.
AND WHICH YOU'LL REMEMBER IN THE
FALL THERE WERE ACCUSATIONS, 
ALLEGATIONS BY THE FORMER 
MINISTER OF JUSTICE AND ATTORNEY
GENERAL, JODY WILSON-RAYBOULD, 
THAT THE PRIME MINISTER AND HIS 
OFFICE AND THE CLERK OF THE 
PRIVY COUNCIL INAPPROPRIATELY 
PRESSURED HER TO INTERFERE IN A 
CASE -- A PROSECUTION AGAINST 
THE MONTREAL ENGINEERING GIANT 
SNC-LAVALIN.
ANDREW SCHEER SAYING THAT THIS 
IS THE FIRST TIME THAT A 
CANADIAN PRIME MINISTER HAS BEEN
FOUND, NOT ONCE BUT TWICE, TO BE
IN CONTRAVENTION OF THESE 
ETHICS.
SAYING THAT THE FIRST ONE WAS 
RELATED TO THE TRIP IN THE 
CARIBBEAN OVER THE CHRISTMAS 
HOLIDAYS A FEW YEARS AGO, THAT 
THAT WAS SHOCKING, BUT THAT THIS
BREACH IS UNFORGIVEABLE.
JANYCE MCGREGOR IS JOINING ME.
WHAT'S YOUR BIG TAKE-AWAY FROM 
WHAT ANDREW SCHEER SAID?
>> I FOUND IT INTERESTING, HIS 
USE OF A LOT OF WORDS THAT WE 
WOULD SEE IN A COURT OF LAW, 
GUILTY, GUILTY VERDICT AGAIN 
FROM THE ETHICS COMMISSIONER.
OF COURSE IT'S NOT WHAT THE 
ETHICS COMMISSIONER SETS OUT.
THIS ISN'T ABOUT A CRIMINAL 
PROSECUTION.
YOU KNOW, WANTING TO KIND OF 
ESTABLISH IN THE PUBLIC'S MIND 
USING A WORD LIKE THAT I THOUGHT
WAS AN INTERESTING 
COMMUNICATIONS CHOICE ON THE 
PART OF THE CONSERVATIVE LEADER.
YOU HEARD HIM SAY THINGS LIKE:  
HE MAY NEVER FACE THE COURT OF 
LAW, BUT HE WILL HAVE TO FACE 
THE VOTERS THIS FALL, REALLY 
WORKING WITH THAT ANALOGY.
THEN LATER IN THE NEWS 
CONFERENCE, MR. SCHEER ASKED ONE
OF THE QUESTIONS OF THE MOMENT, 
WHICH IS WHETHER HE BELIEVES 
THERE IS ENOUGH EVIDENCE TO 
WARRANT AN INVESTIGATION OF 
OBSTRUCTION OF JUSTICE.
I'M HAVING TROUBLE SAYING THAT 
WORD, SORRY.
YOU KNOW, THEN IT WOULD BE A 
CRIMINAL MATTER IF IT MET THAT 
BAR, SCHEER SAYING THAT IN HIS 
OPINION, YES, THERE IS ENOUGH 
EVIDENCE.
OF COURSE WE HAVE HEARD 
CONSERVATIVES SAYING THAT ALL 
ALONG.
THEY STARTED RAISING THIS AND 
MAKING THIS POINT EARLIER THIS 
SPRING AS FAR AS WE KNOW.
AS HANNAH HAS BEEN TELLING YOU, 
THE R.C.M.P. NEVER TELLS US 
WHETHER THEY'RE INVESTIGATING 
ANYTHING OR NOT.
AS FAR AS WE KNOW, THOUGH, THAT 
HAS NOT GONE FORWARD YET.
THAT WAS WHAT STRUCK ME MORE, 
THE FRAMING OF THIS, KEEPING IN 
MIND THAT EVERYBODY IS GOING TO 
THE POLLS IN THE FALL. 
>> Andrew:  JUST ONE OTHER 
POINT, ANDREW SCHEER HAD BEEN 
CALLING ON THE PRIME MINISTER TO
RESIGN.
NOW WE'RE TEN WEEKS AWAY FROM AN
ELECTION.
NOW HE SAYS HE SHOULD BE 
DEFEATED ON OCTOBER 21.
SO THAT'S A DIFFERENT -- 
>> AND THAT IS THE CHALLENGE FOR
THE CONSERVATIVE TEAM, RIGHT?
THAT IS THE CHALLENGE AHEAD OF 
THEM.
THEY NEED TO MAKE THAT CASE 
EVERY DAY OF THE ELECTION 
CAMPAIGN TO COME.
THIS IS NOW -- THIS REPORT FROM 
MR. DION NOW A BIG WEAPON IN THE
HANDS OF THE CONSERVATIVE PARTY 
AS THEY GO TO THE PEOPLE TO MAKE
THAT CASE. 
>> Andrew:  THE CBC'S JANYCE 
MCGREGOR FOLLOWING THIS STORY.
I WANT TO BRING IN TRACY RAMSAY 
AND WE HAVE FORMER CONSERVATIVE 
CABINET MINISTER PETER MACKAY 
AND OUR HANNAH THIBEDEAU, 
WELCOME TO YOU ALL.
TRACY, WE SPOKE WITH YOU JUST 
BEFORE WE HEARD FROM THE 
CONSERVATIVE LEADER.
HANNAH, WE'VE BEEN WATCHING 
ALONG WITH PETER MACKAY IN THE 
STUDIO.
>> I THINK ONE OF THE BIG 
THINGS, I WANT TO BRING IN PETER
MACKAY WHO IS A FORMER ATTORNEY 
GENERAL AND JUSTICE MINISTER.
WE WERE TALKING ABOUT THE FACT 
THAT ANDREW SCHEER IS SAYING, 
LOOK, THERE SHOULD BE AN 
R.C.M.P. INVESTIGATION.
YOU ARE ONE OF THE FORMER 
ATTORNEYS GENERAL WHO ALSO WROTE
TO THE R.C.M.P. ASKING FOR THIS.
WHAT WOULD THE CHARGE BE AND CAN
YOU SEE THE LIKELIHOOD OF THIS 
HAPPENING?
>> IT WOULD BE UNDER SECTION 139
OF THE CRIMINAL CODE.
IT WOULD BE OBSTRUCTION OF 
JUSTICE.
KEEP IN MIND THAT THE BAR FOR AN
INVESTIGATION BY THE R.C.M.P. 
AND THE LAYING OF A CHARGE IS 
DIFFERENT THAN WHAT A PROSECUTOR
WOULD EXAMINE OR WHAT A JUDGE 
AND A JURY PROPERLY INSTRUCTED.
SO IT'S BALANCE OF 
PROBABILITIES, PROOF BEYOND A 
REASONABLE DOUBT.
WE DO HAVE MORE EVIDENCE NOW AS 
A RESULT OF THIS INVESTIGATION 
AND REASON TO BELIEVE THAT THERE
COULD BE MORE EVIDENCE STILL 
BECAUSE OF WHAT MARIO DION SAID,
IN THAT HE DIDN'T GET FULL 
DISCLOSURE FROM ALL OF THE 
WITNESSES AND MINISTERS AND 
OTHERS, CLERK OF THE PRIVY 
COUNCIL.
SO THERE IS REASON TO SUSPECT 
THERE COULD BE MORE EVIDENCE OUT
THERE.
THERE IS CERTAINLY EVIDENCE AS A
RESULT OF THE CONVICTION, IF YOU
WILL, UNDER THIS LAW, SECTION 9 
OF THE CONFLICT OF INTEREST AND 
ETHICS ACT THAT SAYS THERE WAS 
INAPPROPRIATE PRESSURE APPLIED, 
THAT THERE WAS AN EFFORT TO 
BRING ABOUT PERSONAL GAIN ON THE
PART OF SNC-LAVALIN.
SOME COULD GO FURTHER AND SAY 
PERSONAL GAIN ON THE PART OF THE
PRIME MINISTER, THAT CAME OUT AT
ANDREW SCHEER'S PRESS 
AVAILABILITY.
>> ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT 
RE-ELECTION THERE?
>> ABSOLUTELY.
I'M TALKING ABOUT -- 
>> BECAUSE YOU SAID QUEBEC M.P. 
>> ABSOLUTELY.
THE AVOIDANCE OF FURTHER 
SCRUTINY AND THE FALLOUT FROM 
WHAT WE NOW SEE IS A BIG 
POLITICAL SCANDAL.
IT'S ARGUABLE THAT THERE WAS 
ADVANTAGE TO HIM, THAT THE 
DEFERRED PROSECUTION AGREEMENT 
BE GRANTED, THAT SNC-LAVALIN IS 
ESSENTIALLY OFF THE HOOK TO A 
LARGE DEGREE.
LET'S NOT FORGET SOME OF THOSE 
FATEFUL WORDS OF GERALD BUTTS 
THAT SAID THERE IS NO SOLUTION 
WITHOUT INTERFERENCE.
AND A LOT OF THE EVIDENCE I 
THINK -- AND THOSE MEMBERS OF 
THE PARLIAMENTARY JUSTICE 
COMMITTEE, THEY WERE TRYING TO 
ADDUCE MORE AND MORE EVIDENCE, 
THAT WASN'T REALLY THE TYPE OF 
EVIDENCE THAT YOU WOULD GET IN A
COURT OF LAW OR BE COMPELLED TO 
ANSWER.
IT'S NOT THE KIND OF EVIDENCE 
THAT YOU WOULD GET TO GET 
SUBPOENAS TO GET E-MAILS, TO GET
LETTERS, TO GET EXCHANGES OF 
INFORMATION THAT WEREN'T 
AVAILABLE.
THE LAST THING I'LL SAY IS 
PERHAPS THE MOST DAMNING 
EVIDENCE IN ALL OF THIS THAT WE 
KNOW SO FAR ON THE PUBLIC RECORD
WAS THE ILL-FATED PHONE CALL 
BETWEEN THE CLERK OF THE PRIVY 
COUNCIL AND JODY 
WILSON-RAYBOULD, WHERE IT WAS 
APPARENT IN TONE AND IN TERMS OF
WHAT WAS GOING ON THAT SHE WAS 
FEELING PRESSURE.
SHE VERY MUCH FELT INTIMIDATED 
AND SHE COULD LOSE HER JOB, AND 
GUESS WHAT, SHE DID.
>> JUST GOING THROUGH MARIO 
DION'S POINTS THERE, THE 
ATTEMPTS TO BEND THE WILL OF 
JODY WILSON-RAYBOULD THERE IN 
THE PHONE CALL, THAT WAS THE 
MOST FLAGRANT ATTEMPT TO 
INFLUENCE HER. 
>> Andrew:  DO YOU THINK THIS 
WARRANTS AN R.C.M.P. 
INVESTIGATION, TRACY?
DID THE PRIME MINISTER 
POTENTIALLY OBSTRUCT JUSTICE?
>> WE'LL LEAVE THAT UP TO THE 
R.C.M.P.
WE DON'T WANT TO INTERFERE AND 
AS PARLIAMENTARIANS DIRECT THE 
WORK OF THE R.C.M.P., BUT I 
WOULD IMAGINE THEY'RE LOOKING AT
THIS EVIDENCE TODAY AND LOOKING 
AT WHETHER OR NOT THEY'RE GOING 
TO BRING CHARGES.
TO BE HONEST, WE WOULDN'T HAVE 
THIS REPORT WITHOUT THE NDP AND 
WITHOUT THE WORK OF THE 
COMPLAINT FILED BY CHARLIE ANGUS
AND NATHAN COHEN.
THE LIBERALS SHUT DOWN THE 
JUSTICE COMMITTEE, WOULD NOT 
ALLOW ANY FURTHER TESTIMONY.
THEY ONLY ALLOWED JODY 
WILSON-RAYBOULD A SMALL WINDOW 
TESTIMONY OF TIME.
THEY DID EVERYTHING POSSIBLE TO 
STOP WHAT THE REPORT CAME OUT 
TODAY FROM SAYING WHAT HE HAD 
DONE IS ILLEGAL AND WHAT HE HAS 
DONE IS BROKEN THE LAW.
THEY REALLY TRIED AT EVERY TURN 
TO DEFLECT AWAY FROM THIS AND TO
BE SURE THIS TRUTH WOULD NEVER 
SEE THE LIGHT OF DAY.
THE NDP AND THIS COMPLAINT IS 
COMING FORWARD WITH THE TRUTH 
FOR CANADIANS, AND THAT IS WHAT 
WE HAVE BEEN FIGHTING FOR ALL 
ALONG IS THE TRUTH TO COME OUT.
NOW WE KNOW THE LIBERAL PARTY 
WILL NEVER FIGHT FOR THE TRUTH.
THE ROOT OF THIS IS THEM GOING 
TO BAT FOR A CORPORATION OVER 
THE INTERESTS OF PEOPLE AND 
GOING TO THE EXTREME OF 
POLITICALLY INTERFERING IN THE 
ATTORNEY GENERAL'S BUSINESS.
SO WE KNOW THAT THEY'RE WILLING 
TO DO THAT.
PEOPLE KNOW THAT THE 
CONSERVATIVE PARTY WILL BOW TO 
THE WILL OF CORPORATIONS.
SO WHEN ANDREW SCHEER IS SAYING 
THAT THE DECISION TO BE MADE 
THIS FALL IS TO GO WITH ONE OF 
THESE TWO PARTIES WHO WILL 
CONTINUE TO BEND TO CORPORATE 
INTERESTS, I BEG TO SAY THAT 
IT'S GOING TO GO TO THE PARTY 
THAT'S GOING TO STAND UP FOR 
CANADIANS AND STAND UP FOR 
PEOPLE OVER CORPORATE INTERESTS 
WHO KEEP GETTING THESE 
SWEETHEART DEALS FROM THE 
GOVERNMENT WHO IS WILLING TO GO 
TO THE EXTREME OF BREAKING THE 
LAW. 
>> LET ME BRING IN PETER MACKAY 
HERE ON ANOTHER ISSUE.
YESTERDAY THE PRIME MINISTER WAS
ASKED ABOUT THE REPORT BY THE 
FORMER ATTORNEY GENERAL AND 
JUSTICE MINISTER, LIBERAL, SHE 
WAS ASKED TO LOOK INTO WHETHER 
THE ROLES OF THE ATTORNEY 
GENERAL AND JUSTICE MINISTER 
SHOULD BE SEPARATED.
THAT REPORT JUST CAME OUT. 
>> SURPRISES, SURPRISE.
>> WE KNOW THE PRIME MINISTER 
WILL BE ADDRESSING IT.
THE REPORT DATE IS JUNE 28 WHEN 
IT WAS COMPLETED.
THE QUESTION IS THAT IT SAYS, 
NO.
SHE SAYS THAT THOSE TWO ROLES 
SHOULD STAY ONE SINGULAR ROLE.
WHAT'S YOUR THOUGHT ON THIS?
>> MY FIRST THOUGHT OVERALL IS 
THAT IT'S A DISTRACTION.
IT'S A SMOKE BOMB.
IT'S AN ATTEMPT TO MUDDY THE 
WATERS ON THIS ISSUE.
THIS REPORT, WHATEVER ITS 
FINDING, HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH 
THE ISSUES ITSELF OF WHETHER THE
ATTORNEY GENERAL WAS PRESSURED, 
WHETHER THERE WAS, IN FACT, 
OBSTRUCTION OF JUSTICE.
THIS IS AN ISSUE THAT DEALS WITH
BASICALLY THE INTERNAL MASH 
NATIONS OF THE DEPARTMENT AND 
THE ATTORNEY GENERAL.
THE BIGGEST ISSUE IS SOMETHING 
THAT HAS BEEN DEALT WITH, AND 
THAT WAS TAKING THE DIRECTOR OF 
PUBLIC PROSECUTIONS OUT OF THE 
A.J. AND MAKING IT ARM'S LENGTH.
IT WORKED.
IT ALLOWED HER TO MAKE DECISIONS
INDEPENDENT OF POLITICAL 
INFLUENCE.
NOW, THE ATTORNEY GENERAL HAD 
OVERSIGHT AND THE ABILITY TO 
OVERTURN THE DIRECTOR OF PUBLIC 
PROSECUTIONS AND SAID, NO, I'M 
NOT GOING TO DO THAT.
IT WOULDN'T BE APPROPRIATE.
IT WOULD BE INTERFERENCE AND IT 
WOULD BE DONE FOR ALL THE 
REASONS -- 
>> WHAT DO YOU SAY -- 
>> SHE HAD TO HAVE MADE THAT 
DECISION TO OVERTURN AND 
GAZETTED IT. 
>> IT WOULD HAVE BEEN MADE 
PUBLIC.
WHAT DO YOU SAY TO THE 
ARGUMENTS, MR. MACKAY, THAT THIS
WAS HUMAN RESOURCES THAT THE 
PRIME MINISTER SAID I WANT YOU 
TO GO FIND ANOTHER OPINION, 
POTENTIALLY OF A SUPREME COURT 
JUSTICE, AND JUST TAKE A LOOK AT
THIS?
>> BECAUSE, HANNAH, IT'S BASIC 
COMMON SENSE.
YOU DON'T CALL JUDGES AND YOU 
DON'T CALL PROSECUTORS WHEN 
THEY'RE IN THE MIDST OF MAKING A
DECISION, ESPECIALLY AFTER 
THEY'VE MADE THE DECISION.
SO THERE WAS A BLAZING RED LINE,
FULL STOP, FLASHING:  DON'T GO 
THERE.
THERE WAS NOBODY IN THE P.M.'s 
OFFICE THAT TOLD HIM THAT.
IT SHOULD HAVE BEEN THE WORK OF 
THE CLERK OF THE PRIVY COUNCIL, 
BUT HE WAS COMPLICIT IN THIS 
ONGOING EFFORT.
SO WE NOW HAVE MORE FACTS THAN 
WE HAD BEFORE IF THERE IS TO BE 
FURTHER INVESTIGATION.
BY THE WAY, THE O.E.C.D. HAS 
WEIGHED IN AND THE WORLD BANK.
SO THIS HAS FAR-REACHING 
IMPLICATIONS THAT AFFECT 
CANADA'S REPUTATION.
THIS IS BAD REPUTATIONALLY IN 
THE JUST FOR THE PRIME MINISTER 
AND THE LIBERAL GOVERNMENT, BUT 
THIS IS BAD FOR CANADA AND A SAD
DAY FOR CANADA.
>> Andrew:  TRACEY RAMSEY, YOU 
WERE NODDING AND SHAKING YOUR 
HEAD.
>> BILL MORNEAU, IN SOME WAYS 
HE'S TRYING TO CLAIM HE DOESN'T 
REMEMBER THESE THINGS HAPPENING.
WHO DOESN'T REMEMBER THIS AS A 
MINISTER IN GOVERNMENT WHERE 
THIS IS THE BIGGEST POLITICAL 
SCANDAL THEY'VE SEEN.
YOU'VE GOT STAFF IN THE P.M.O. 
IN THE MINISTER OF FINANCE'S 
OFFICE WHO WE HAVEN'T HEARD 
FROM, WHO WERE CERTAINLY NAMED 
IN TESTIMONY.
WE HEAR AGAIN THE VERY 
CONCERNING REPORT TODAY WHERE 
THE ETHICS COMMISSIONER IS 
TELLING US THAT EVEN THROUGHOUT 
THE INVESTIGATION THEY WERE 
BEING BLOCKED BY THE PRIME 
MINISTER'S OFFICE FROM RECEIVING
ALL THE INFORMATION THEY NEED.
SO EVEN THIS REPORT TODAY IS NOT
BASED ON THE ENTIRE STORY.
WE STILL DON'T HAVE THE WHOLE 
TRUTH AS TO WHAT HAPPENED.
THERE ARE PEOPLE LIKE KATIE 
TELFORD, MARQUES, THERE WERE 
PEOPLE WHO PLAYED A KEY ROLE IN 
WHAT WAS GOING ON AND THEY WERE 
PRESSURING IN THIS WAY.
OF COURSE WE HAVE THE E-MAILS 
AND EVERYTHING TO PROVE THAT.
WHAT ABOUT THOSE VOICES?
WHAT HAPPENED THERE?
BILL MORNEAU PLAYED A KEY ROLE 
IN THIS AND HE'S TRYING TO STAY 
AWAY FROM IT.
LET'S NOT FORGET THE FACT THAT 
JODY WILSON-RAYBOULD AND 
MINISTER PHILPOTT KICKED RIGHT 
OUT OF LIBERAL CAUCUS, RUNNING 
AS INDEPENDENTS BECAUSE OF THIS.
THERE IS AN ATTEMPT TO RUIN 
THESE WOMEN'S CAREERS AND ALL 
BECAUSE THEY HAD THE GAL TO 
STAND UP TO THE MOST POWERFUL 
PERSON IN THE COUNTRY. 
>> Andrew:  WHAT IS YOUR 
REACTION TO THE REPORT ON 
WHETHER OR NOT TO SEPARATE THE 
ROLE OF THE ATTORNEY GENERAL AND
THE MINISTER OF JUSTICE, AS 
HANNAH WAS MENTIONING SHE IS A 
FORMER ATTORNEY GENERAL AND 
MINISTER OF JUSTICE AND LIBERAL.
SHE SAYS IN HER REPORT:  "I DO 
NOT BELIEVE THAT FURTHER 
STRUCTURAL CHANGE IS REQUIRED IN
CANADA TO PREVENT PROSECUTORIAL 
INDEPENDENCE AND PROMOTE PUBLIC 
CONFIDENCE IN THE CRIMINAL 
JUSTICE SYSTEM."  WHAT I THINK 
THAT MEANS IS SHE DOES NOT 
BELIEVE WE NEED TO SEPARATE 
THOSE ROLES.
WHAT DO YOU MAKE OF THAT REPORT?
IT WAS DATED THE END OF JUNE.
>> IT'S BEEN HELD FOR MONTHS.
>> Andrew:  FOR IT TO COME OUT 
ON A DAY LIKE TODAY?
>> THIS WAS SOMETHING THAT THE 
LIBERALS CHOSE TO DO TO TRY TO 
CHANGE THE CHANNEL IN THE HEAT 
OF THE SNC-LAVALIN SCANDAL.
IT DIDN'T WORK THEN, IT'S NOT 
GOING TO WORK TODAY.
THIS IS NOT WHAT THE STORY IS 
ALL ABOUT.
THAT THEY APPOINTED A FORMER 
LIBERAL CABINET MINISTER I THINK
SPEAKS VOLUMES.
CANADIANS RIGHT NOW HAVE A TRUST
ISSUE.
THEY KNOW THAT THEY CAN'T TRUST 
THE PRIME MINISTER BECAUSE HE 
HAS BEEN SAYING FOR THE PAST 
SEVERAL MONTHS, YOU KNOW, I 
DIDN'T DO ANYTHING WRONG.
SHE EXPERIENCED THESE THINGS 
DIFFERENTLY.
HE HAS BEEN DOING EVERYTHING IN 
HIS POWER TO SAY THAT HE DID NOT
BREAK THE LAW, AND WE NOW KNOW 
THAT HE HAS.
SO THIS REPORT THAT'S COMING 
FROM HER REALLY, QUITE FRANKLY, 
IS NOT GOING TO CHANGE THE 
CHANNEL AT THIS POINT IN TIME 
EITHER AND IT'S NOT WHAT THE 
ROOT OF THIS STORY IS ABOUT.
THIS IS ABOUT A CORPORATION 
GOING TO THE PRIME MINISTER AND 
ASKING HIM TO POLITICALLY 
INTERFERE WITH THE ATTORNEY 
GENERAL, WHICH THEN HE DOES.
WE ALL KNOW THE EVIDENCE THAT'S 
COME FORWARD, BUT AGAIN, WE 
STILL DON'T HAVE THAT FULL 
STORY.
WILL WE EVER GET A NATIONAL 
PUBLIC INQUIRY, WHICH IS 
SOMETHING WE'VE CALLED FOR FROM 
THE BEGINNING?
OR WILL WE JUST CONTINUE TO SEE 
EXCUSES AND DEFLECTION IN TRYING
TO SAY THIS IS A HUMAN RESOURCES
THING, THAT THERE WERE 
PERSONALITY CONFLICTS, SMEARING 
JODY WILSON-RAYBOULD, TALKING 
ABOUT THIS REPORT TODAY.
THESE PIVOTS THAT, QUITE 
FRANKLY -- YOU KNOW, CANADIANS 
DESERVE BETTER.
CANADIANS DESERVE THE TRUTH. 
>> I WANT TO BRING IN PETER 
MACKAY AND ASK ABOUT YOUR 
PERSONAL THOUGHTS ABOUT JODY 
WILSON-RAYBOULD.
SHE USED TO BE ATTORNEY GENERAL 
AND JUSTICE MINISTER.
SHE GOT KICKED OUT OF LIBERAL 
CAUCUS AND NOW RUNNING AS AN 
INDEPENDENT.
WHAT ARE YOUR THOUGHTS ABOUT HOW
THAT UNFOLDED AND HOW IT'S GOING
TO UNFOLD FROM HERE ON IN?
>> I THINK THE POLITICAL OPTICS 
ARE TERRIBLE FOR THE PRIME 
MINISTER, FEMINIST, WORKING FOR 
THE INDIGENOUS PEOPLE.
THAT BLOWS THIS OUT OF THE 
WATER.
ASK JODY WILSON-RAYBOULD HOW SHE
FEELS HIS CREDIBILITY IS ON 
THOSE TWO ISSUES.
THE OTHER THING TRACY JUST 
REFERENCED, HE EXPRESSED IT 
DIFFERENTLY.
WE HEARD ABOUT THE GROPING 
AFFAIR THAT WAS A SERIOUS ISSUE 
THAT CAME AND WENT.
BUT THIS ATTEMPT TO DEFLECT AWAY
OR SOMEHOW CHARACTERIZE IT AS 
SOMETHING DIFFERENT THAN WHAT 
REALLY HAPPENED.
JODY WILSON-RAYBOULD PAID AN 
ENORMOUS POLITICAL PRICE, LOST 
THE JOB THAT SHE LOVED AND 
COVETED AND NOW RUNNING AS AN 
INDEPENDENT.
SOMEBODY SAID TODAY WILL THE 
PRIME MINISTER APOLOGIZE.
WILL HE INVITE HER BACK INTO THE
CAUCUS?
NO, HE WON'T.
THE LIBERALS JUST NOMINATED THE 
CANDIDATE IN HER RIDING.
SHE HAS PAID THAT PRICE.
HAVING WORN BOTH OF THOSE HATS 
OF ATTORNEY GENERAL AND JUSTICE 
MINISTER, THIS FINDING BY ANNE 
MCCLELLAN IS INTERESTING BUT HAS
NOTHING TO DO WITH THE ISSUE, 
THAT IS CORRUPTION, SNC, AND 
INTERFERENCE IN THE CRIMINAL 
JUSTICE SYSTEM AND PRESSURING 
THE PROSECUTOR.
>> Andrew:  TRACEY RANSEY, WE 
WERE EXPECTING TO HEAR FROM THE 
PRIME MINISTER AT 2:00 P.M. 
EASTERN TIME, THAT IS OBVIOUSLY 
RUNNING A LITTLE BIT LATE, BUT 
WE CAN EXPECT A LOT OF QUESTIONS
TO HIM ABOUT ALL OF THIS.
A KEY QUESTION MAY BE FROM 
REPORTERS:  ARE YOU SORRY?
ARE YOU GOING TO APOLOGIZE TO 
JODY WILSON-RAYBOULD.
IS THAT A KEY POINT FOR YOU?
>> YEAH, THERE WERE ATTEMPTS TO 
GET THIS OUT OF HIM BEFORE, 
RIGHT, AND HE, QUITE FRANKLY, 
COULDN'T BRING HIMSELF TO SAY 
HE'D DONE ANYTHING WRONG. 
>> Andrew:  NOW THAT THE 
COMMISSIONER HAS SAID, YOU HAVE 
DONE SOMETHING WRONG AND BROKEN 
THE LAW, DOES THAT CHANGE IT IN 
TERMS OF HOW WE EXPECT HIM TO 
REACT?
>> THE PRIME MINISTER KNOWS HE 
DID SOMETHING WRONG.
HE KNEW IT BACK WHEN HE WOULDN'T
APOLOGIZE.
HE'S KNOWN IT ALL ALONG WHEN HE 
WAS TRYING TO TURN THE CHANNEL.
HE'S KNOWN IT WHEN HE WAS TRYING
TO SMEAR HER.
HE KNEW IT WHEN HE KICKED HER 
OUT OF CAUCUS.
HE KNEW IT WHEN HE KICKED JANE 
PHILPOTT OUT FOR STANDING UP FOR
HER.
HE'S KNOWN IT ALL ALONG.
HE'S BEEN CAUGHT IN ALL THIS 
STORY THAT HE'S CREATED AND 
FABRICATED.
SO WILL AN APOLOGY TODAY REALLY 
SUFFICE FOR JODY WILSON-RAYBOULD
OR, QUITE FRANKLY, FOR THE WOMEN
OF CANADIAN.
WOMEN ALL OVER WERE INFUR 
RATIATED  -- INFURIATED BY THIS 
TREATMENT.
YOU HAD WOMEN WHO WERE WIDELY 
RESPECTED ON ALL SIDES OF THE 
HOUSE, AND LOOK AT HOW THESE 
WOMEN WERE TREATED.
WOMEN IN CANADA ARE STILL VERY 
ANGRY ABOUT THAT.
AN APOLOGY AT THIS POINT IS TOO 
LITTLE TOO LATE BECAUSE THE 
DAMAGE HAS ALREADY BEEN DONE.
>> WE KNOW THAT ANDREW SCHEER 
HAD CALLED ON THE PRIME MINISTER
TO RESIGN IN THE PAST.
THAT'S NOT SOMETHING THAT'S 
LIKELY TO HAPPEN HERE AND 
THERE'S LOTS OF REASONS FOR IT.
WE'RE IN A PRE-ELECTION CYCLE.
BUT THERE'S NO REAL WAY TO GO 
FORWARD TO REMOVE A PRIME 
MINISTER HERE. 
>> WE DON'T HAVE IMPEACHMENT 
PROCEEDINGS.
PARLIAMENT FOR ALL INTENTS AND 
PURPOSES HAS BEEN DISSOLVED.
THERE ARE WAYS TO BRING IT BACK 
IF WE HAD TO RATIFY THE 
FREE-TRADE AGREEMENT UNDER SHORT
NOTICE.
BUT YOU'RE RIGHT, WE ARE UNDER A
DIFFERENT PLACE THAN WHEN THIS 
ISSUE FIRST CAME FORWARD.
WE'RE IN AN ELECTION, 
PRE-ELECTION MODE, SOON TO BE A 
WRIT, AND I DON'T THINK IF I'M 
ANDREW SCHEER I WANT THE PRIME 
MINISTER TO RESIGN.
I WANT TO RUN AGAINST HIM.
I WANT TO STICK ALL OF THIS TO 
HIM AND HOLD HIM TO ACCOUNT AND 
HOLD THOSE SCANDALS UP TO THE 
CANADIAN PEOPLE AND SAY:  THIS 
IS WHAT YOU GET.
I'M A FRESH FACE.
I'M A NEW PARTY.
I HAVE NEW IDEAS.
THEN TALK ABOUT HIS PLATFORM.
BUT HE WANTS TO RUN AGAINST THIS
PRIME MINISTER IS MY BET. 
>> Andrew:  TRACEY RAMSEY AND, 
PETER, YOU CAN RESPOND TO THIS 
TOO.
PEOPLE HAVING ASKING WHAT KIND 
OF PENALTY OR FINES COULD BE 
APPLIED TO THE PRIME MINISTER 
FOR CONTRAVENING THE CONFLICT OF
INTEREST ACT AND WE HAVE HEARD 
THAT THE -- THAT DION'S OFFICE 
HAS TOLD US THE COMMISSIONER CAN
IMPOSE FINES IN SOME CASES, BUT 
THOSE PENALTIES DO NOT APPLY 
HERE.
THE CONFLICT OF INTEREST AND 
ETHICS COMMISSIONER DOES NOT 
HAVE THE POWER TO IMPOSE 
SANCTIONS IN THIS CASE.
WHAT DO YOU MAKE OF THAT?
>> WELL, WE'VE CONSISTENTLY 
CALLED FOR MORE POWER, FOR MORE 
INDEPENDENCE, FOR THE ETHICS 
COMMISSIONER TO HAVE THE ABILITY
TO DO THAT BECAUSE, QUITE 
FRANKLY, THIS PRIME MINISTER HAS
BEEN FOUND TO BREAK THE ETHICS 
RULES PREVIOUSLY.
HE BROKE THE CONFLICT OF 
INTEREST ACT.
THIS ISN'T THE FIRST TIME THAT 
HE'S DONE IT.
CERTAINLY THIS IS MORE EXPLOSIVE
I WOULD SAY THAN THE PREVIOUS 
ONE, BUT THEY'RE BOTH EQUALLY 
WRONG.
SO WHAT HAS HAPPENED UNDER 
PREVIOUS GOVERNMENTS AND THIS 
GOVERNMENT IS -- THEY HAVE TAKEN
ALL THE POWERS AWAY FROM THE 
ETHICS COMMISSIONER TO HOLD HIM 
ACCOUNTABLE.
EVEN IF THERE WERE TO BE SOME 
SORT OF FINE, THEY CAN WAIVE IT 
FOR THEMSELVES.
SO THEY'VE MADE THEMSELVES THIS 
GOLDEN NEST WHERE NO ONE CAN 
TOUCH THEM NO MATTER WHAT THEY 
DO.
EVEN IF THEY'RE FOUND GUILTY IN 
THESE CASES, THERE'S NO 
REPERCUSSIONS.
WHERE IS THE DETERRENT FOR 
GOVERNMENTS DOING EXACTLY WHAT 
THEY'VE DONE AND EXACTLY WHAT 
JUSTIN TRUDEAU HAS JUST BEEN 
FOUND GUILTY OF?
>> THAT'S RIGHT.
THERE IS NO REAL ACCOUNTABILITY 
AT THE END OF THE DAY BASED ON 
THIS FINDING.
THE ACCOUNTABILITY WILL COME IN 
AN ELECTION CAMPAIGN.
BUT HAVING -- THE PRIME MINISTER
ARGUABLY IS A PRIOR OFFENDER 
NOW, HAVING BEEN FOUND GUILTY 
PREVIOUSLY, AS WAS THE FINANCE 
MINISTER.
AND I THINK IN HIS CASE THERE 
WAS A FINANCIAL PENALTY SET OUT 
AGAINST HIM.
WHAT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT HERE IS
THE COURT OF PUBLIC OPINION AND 
THE ETHICS COMMISSIONER HAS NO 
ABILITY TO SUBPOENA RECORDS AND 
NO ABILITY TO COMPEL WITNESSES.
THAT'S ARGUABLY ONE OF THE FLAWS
OF OUR PARLIAMENTARY COMMITTEE 
SYSTEM.
THERE ARE ARGUMENTS, MACHINES OF
GOVERNMENT ARGUMENTS, HOW WE CAN
MAKE THE ETHICS COMMISSIONER 
OFFICE MORE ABILITY TO DELIVER 
RESULTS.
BUT A $200 FINE IS A NICE BOTTLE
OF WINE.
>> Andrew:  THANK YOU BOTH VERY 
MUCH.
THAT IS TRACEY RAMSEY JOINING US
AND ALSO PETER MACKAY AND CBC'S 
HANNAH THIBEDEAU.
I AM SEEING IN ONE OF MY 
MONITORS HERE A SHOT OF NIAGARA 
ON THE LAKE WHERE WE ARE 
EXPECTING TO HEAR FROM THE PRIME
MINISTER ANY MOMENT NOW.
THERE IT IS.
THAT IS THE PODIUM FROM NIAGARA 
ON THE LAKE.
WE ARE EXPECTING TO HEAR FROM 
JUSTIN TRUDEAU.
WE EXPECT THERE TO BE A 
STATEMENT OR AT LEAST QUESTIONS 
FROM REPORTERS, AND THEY WILL 
PROBABLY ALL BE FOCUSED IN 
AROUND THIS.
IF YOU'RE JUST JOINING US, A 
REMINDER OF SOME OF THE KEY 
POINTS FROM THE COMMISSIONER.
THE REPORT FOUND THE PRIME 
MINISTER CONTRAVENED SECTION 9 
OF THE CONFLICT OF INTEREST ACT.
THE P.M. USED HIS AUTHORITY TO 
CIRCUMVENT AND UNDERMINE THE 
PUBLIC PROSECUTE'S POSITION.
SNC WAS FACING A CRIMINAL TRIAL.
THE COMMISSIONER FOUND THE PRIME
MINISTER AND HIS TOP OFFICIALS 
SOUGHT TO HAVE THE ATTORNEY 
GENERAL OVERRULE THAT DECISION 
BY THE PROSECUTE.
THE REPORT ALSO SAYS SENIOR 
STAFF WOULD NOT HAVE ACTED 
WITHOUT KNOWING THE PRIME 
MINISTER'S POSITION ON THE 
SNC-LAVALIN MATTER.
THE COMMISSIONER ALSO STATED 
THAT PARTISAN POLITICAL 
INTERESTS WERE IMPROPERLY PUT 
BEFORE THE ATTORNEY GENERAL FOR 
HER CONSIDERATION IN THE CASE.
LET'S GET SOME MORE ANALYSIS.
WE'LL STAY IN OTTAWA.
JOINING ME NOW IS THE HOST OF 
POWER AND POLITICS VASHI 
KAPELIS.
ANOTHER BIG DAY.
THIS WAS BIG IN THE WINTER/EARLY
SPRING, THEN IT WENT AWAY.
NOW IT'S BACK.
WHAT'S YOUR FIRST REACTION TO 
THE ETHICS COMMISSIONER'S 
FINDINGS?
>> IT'S INTERESTING BECAUSE THIS
WAS SO TOP OF MIND FOR SO MANY 
CANADIANS AND IT AFFECT THE THE 
POPULAR SUPPORT FOR THE LIBERALS
BACK IN FEBRUARY, MARCH, APRIL.
IT AFFECTED THE TRAJECTORY.
RECENTLY WE'VE SEEN A CHANGE OF 
FORTUNE, SO MUCH THAT I TALKED 
TO OUR POLLS ANALYST AND HE WAS 
SAYING FOR THE FIRST TIME SINCE 
SNC IT'S MORE PROBABLE THAT THE 
LIBERALS WILL WIN MORE SEATS 
THAN THE CONSERVATIVES.
NOW THIS.
THIS IS DEFINITELY SOMETHING 
THAT CAN CHANGE THE CHANNEL ON 
THE ONE HAND THE TIMING IS 
PRETTY BAD FOR THE LIBERALS.
ON THE OTHER HAND MAYBE IF THIS 
HAD DROPPED OCTOBER 17 IT COULD 
BE A LOT WORSE.
CERTAINLY THIS ALLOWS THE 
OPPOSITION, AS YOU'VE JUST HEARD
FROM MR. MACKAY AND MS. RAMSEY, 
MR. SCHEER, MR. SINGH, TO SAY 
THIS IS THE LIBERALS HELPING OUT
THEIR FRIENDS IN HIGH PLACES.
THIS IS A PRIME MINISTER WHO IS 
NOT AS ETHICAL AS HE PROMISED OR
NOWHERE AS CLOSE TO ETHICAL AS 
HE PROMISED TO BE IN THE LAST 
ELECTION.
THAT IS HOW THEY ARE GOING TO 
FRAME THIS ISSUE DAY IN AND OUT 
FOR EVERY SINGLE DAY UNTIL 
OCTOBER 21. 
>> Andrew:  FOR THOSE OF YOU 
JUST JOINING US, WE'RE SHOWING A
LIVE SHOT OF NIAGARA ON THE LAKE
IN ONTARIO.
THE PRIME MINISTER WAS EXPECTED 
AT 2:00.
MAYBE THERE IS MORE TIME HOW HE 
IS GOING TO REACT TO THIS.
THIS IS BIG NEWS.
I WANT TO ASK YOU, VASSY, DOES 
THIS CHANGE THINGS FOR HIM IN 
TERMS OF HOW HE'S GOING TO 
RESPOND?
I KNOW WE HAVE TO WAIT AND SEE.
YOU CAN'T PREDICT THE FUTURE.
WILL THERE BE AN APOLOGY?
THAT'S A KEY QUESTION.
THE PRIME MINISTER, YOU CAN 
REMIND US OF THIS, HE DIDN'T 
FEEL HE DID ANYTHING WRONG.
MAYBE IT COULD HAVE BEEN HANDLED
DIFFERENTLY, BUT HE NEVER 
APOLOGIZED TO JODY 
WILSON-RAYBOULD BECAUSE HE SAYS 
IN HIS OPINION HE DIDN'T DO 
ANYTHING WRONG.
THE ETHICS COMMISSIONER SAID, 
NO, PRIME MINISTER, YOU DID DO 
SOMETHING WRONG.
>> YOU HIT THE NAIL ON THE HEAD.
HIS RESPONSE THAT WE'RE 
ANTICIPATING NOW IS SO KEY IN 
THE WAY THIS STORY DEVELOPS.
I REMEMBER THAT DAY HE GAVE A 
PRESS CONFERENCE AND WE HAD ALL 
ANTICIPATING THERE IS GOING TO 
BE SOME KIND OF AN APOLOGY.
AND THE LIBERALS TELEGRAPHED THE
NIGHT BEFORE THERE MIGHT BE.
THERE WAS AN ACKNOWLEDGEMENT 
THAT THINGS COULD HAVE BEEN DONE
DIFFERENTLY.
AND THERE WAS NO APOLOGY.
WE KNOW THAT THEY INSISTED THEY 
WERE DOING THIS BECAUSE OF JOBS 
AND BECAUSE OF THE POSSIBILITY 
OF NEGATIVE ECONOMIC 
CONSEQUENCES, BUT SPECIFICALLY, 
YOU'RE RIGHT, HE REALLY DID SORT
OF NEVER ADMIT TO DOING ANYTHING
WRONG WHEN IT COMES TO THE WAY 
HE COMMUNICATED WITH JODY 
WILSON-RAYBOULD OR THE ACTIONS 
HE TOOK IN THIS CASE AND WHERE 
SHE WAS CONCERNED.
SO WILL THIS BE SORT OF LIKE THE
TIME WHERE THE ETHICS 
COMMISSIONER RULED ON THE AGA 
KHAN WHERE HE ACCEPTS THESE 
FINDINGS AND SAY LET'S MOVE ON.
WILL HE ACCEPT WRONG-DOING?
I THINK THAT IS THE KEY QUESTION
AS WE LOOK TOWARDS HIS COMMENTS 
IN THE NEXT MINUTES.
WILL THE PRIME MINISTER SAY I 
DID SOMETHING WRONG, THE ETHICS 
COMMISSIONER IS RIGHT, I'M SORRY
FOR MY CONDUCT IN THIS MATTER?
I WOULD BE -- I'M NOT SURE WHAT 
TO PREDICT, BUT I WOULD BE 
SURPRISED TO SEE THAT ALL THESE 
MONTHS LATER.
FROM A COMMUNICATIONS STANDPOINT
IT WOULD BE INTERESTING TO SEE 
DOES THAT HELP THEM MOVE FORWARD
OR KEEP THE ISSUE LIVE.
I'M NOT SURE.
IT IS A HARD ONE. 
>> Andrew:  IT IS.
AND THE DIFFERENCE I THINK IN 
THE WINTER AND IN THE EARLY 
SPRING IS THAT -- IT WAS THE 
WINTER AND THE EARLY SPRING.
IT WASN'T TEN WEEKS OUT FROM A 
FEDERAL ELECTION.
SO NOW THAT KIND OF CHANGES 
THINGS, AND WE SAW THAT THE 
LIBERALS DID TAKE A HIT IN THE 
POLLS IN THE WINTER AND EARLY 
SPRING.
THEN THEY SEEMED TO BOUNCE BACK 
IF YOU BELIEVE THE POLLS.
THE ONLY REALLY IMPORTANT POLL 
IS ELECTION DAY.
BUT IT RAISES THAT QUESTION 
AGAIN.
IS THIS AN IMPORTANT ISSUE TO 
CANADIANS?
IT'S THE MIDDLE OF AUGUST.
ARE CANADIANS EVEN PAYING 
ATTENTION TO THIS ISSUE AND DOES
THIS STICK AND DOES THE PRIME 
MINISTER AND THE LIBERALS, WILL 
THEY PAY A POLITICAL PRICE?
>> YEAH, I THINK THERE'S A LOT 
THAT GOES INTO ANALYZING WILL 
THAT BE THE CASE.
IT'S THE TIMING OF IT.
IT'S HOW MUCH THIS SORT OF FITS 
A NARRATIVE ABOUT THE PRIME 
MINISTER.
DOES THIS AMP UP THE IDEA THAT 
HE PROMISED US ONE THING AND 
DELIVERED SOMETHING ELSE.
I THINK YOU'RE RIGHT THAT THIS 
IS CLOSE TO THE ELECTION AND 
THEREFORE EVERYTHING THAT 
HAPPENS NOW COULD POTENTIALLY 
HAVE MORE OF AN IMPACT THAN IT 
DID MONTHS AGO.
BUT EVEN MONTHS AGO WHEN PEOPLE 
WERE INSISTING NOBODY CARES, 
THIS IS JUST A DISPUTE BETWEEN 
TWO PEOPLE.
THAT MAY BE TRUE TO A CERTAIN 
EXTENT.
BUT PEOPLE DID CARE.
THOSE POLLS, WHILE THEY'RE NOT 
EXACT PREDICTORS AND THEY DO GET
IT WRONG, THEY DO MEASURE HOW 
CANADIANS FEEL ABOUT AN ISSUE AT
A POINT IN TIME.
WE DID SEE A DEVIATION FROM THE 
WAY THINGS HAD BEEN GOING FOR 
MANY MONTHS PRIOR TO THE SNC 
STORY BREAKING.
IT BREAK IN FEBRUARY.
ALL THE WAY UNTIL A FEW WEEKS 
AGO IT HAS THE LIBERALS TRAILING
THE CONSERVATIVES.
AND SPECIFICALLY IN THE 
EFFICIENCY OF THAT VOTE, HOW 
MANY SEATS YOU NEED AND HOW MANY
YOU NEED TO WIN OR FORM 
GOVERNMENT, IT SHOWED THAT THE 
CONSERVATIVES HAD A HIGHER 
CHANCE OF DOING SO AND THAT WAS 
SPECIFICALLY SINCE SNC.
AS I MENTIONED OFF THE TOP THAT 
SWITCHED IN THE LAST FEW WEEKS 
AND THE LIBERALS WENT BACK TO A 
PLACE WHERE THEY WERE MORE 
LIKELY TO WIN MORE SEATS.
YOU'RE ABSOLUTELY RIGHT.
I'M NOT SURE WHETHER THIS WILL 
CHANGE THE DIAL.
I THINK THE HEADLINES WILL DO 
THE PRIME MINISTER NO FAVOURS.
I MEAN, THE CONCLUSION THAT THIS
ETHICS COMMISSIONER REACHED IS A
DAMNING ONE AND THERE IS NO WAY 
AROUND THAT.
THIS HEADLINE WILL STICK FOR A 
NUMBER OF WEEKS.
THAT SAID, CAMPAIGNS DO MATTER 
AND WE'RE NOT IN THE OFFICIAL 
CAMPAIGN.
THERE ARE A NUMBER OF WEEKS TO 
GO.
THE NARRATIVE CAN SHIFT.
IT WOULD HAVE BEEN WORSE IF THIS
HAD HAPPENED FIVE DAYS OUT FROM 
THE ELECTION, I CAN GUARANTEE 
THAT.
IT DOES DEPEND ON A WHOLE HOST 
OF FACTORS. 
>> Andrew:  VASSY, THERE ARE SO 
MANY THINGS TO FOLLOW.
AT THE SAME TIME, ANNE 
MCCLELLAN'S REPORT ABOUT THE 
ATTORNEY GENERAL AND THE 
MINISTER OF JUSTICE BEING THE 
SAME PERSON.
ONE IS A POLITICAL ROLE AND ONE 
OFF TO THE SIDE AND NOT 
POLITICAL.
TELL US ABOUT THAT REPORT AND 
THE SIGNIFICANCE AND THE TIMING 
OF THE REPORT TODAY?
>> ALL FOR ONE, TWO-FOR-ONE 
PACKAGE TODAY.
THE BACKGROUND OF THIS REPORT IS
IMPORTANT BECAUSE IT SPEAKS TO A
LOT OF WHAT THE DEPOSITIVE  -- 
GOVERNMENT WAS SAYING TO DEFEND 
THEIR ACTIONS.
THE ATTORNEY GENERAL HAS A 
SPECIFIC FUNCTION IN THAT THAT 
ROLE IS NOT SUPPOSED TO CONSIDER
POLITICAL THINGS.
IT'S SUPPOSED TO BE ALL ABOUT 
THE RULE OF LAW AND UPHOLDING 
THE RULE OF LAW.
THE JUSTICE MINISTER PERFORMS, 
THOUGH, AS ANY OTHER CABINET 
COLLEAGUE WOULD.
YOU SIT AROUND THE CABINET 
TABLE.
YOU THINK ABOUT -- YOU ARE 
PERMITTED, LET'S USE THE WORD 
LOOSELY, TO CONSIDER THINGS LIKE
POLITICS, THINGS LIKE ECONOMIC 
CONSEQUENCES.
ALL THOSE THINGS THAT PEOPLE 
SITTING AROUND A CABINET TABLE 
USUALLY CONSIDER.
WHAT THE GOVERNMENT HAD SAID IS 
THEY ASSUMED WHEN THEY WERE 
COMMUNICATING WITH JODY 
WILSON-RAYBOULD ABOUT THOSE 
TYPES OF CONSIDERATIONS WHERE 
SNC WAS CONCERNED AND THE 
POSSIBILITY OF THE D.P.A. OR A 
CRIMINAL CONVICTION, THAT THAT'S
WHAT THEY ANTICIPATED THEY WERE 
TALKING ABOUT.
THEY SAID, OH, THIS IS THE 
JUSTICE MINISTER.
THIS IS SUPPOSED TO BE WHAT YOU 
CONSIDER AS A MINISTER OF THE 
CROWN IN CANADA.
JODY WILSON-RAYBOULD'S RESPONSE 
WAS, NO, IN THIS CAPACITY I WAS 
THE ATTORNEY GENERAL AND I WAS 
APART FROM THOSE TYPES OF 
CONSIDERATIONS.
SO THIS LED THEN TO THE PRIME 
MINISTER ASKING THE FORMER 
LIBERAL CABINET MINISTER TO LOOK
INTO THIS AND FIGURE OUT WHETHER
OR NOT THE TWO ROLES SHOULD BE 
SEPARATED.
THERE HAVE BEEN OTHER JUSTICE 
MINISTERS IN THE PAST THAT HAVE 
ADVOCATED THAT.
THERE HAVE BEEN CONVERSATIONS 
AROUND THIS TOPIC IN THE PAST.
THIS IS NOT THE FIRST INSTANCE 
OF THAT.
THE ETHICS COMMISSIONER GOES 
OVER THAT IN HIS REPORT, BUT 
WHAT ANNE MCCLELLAN WAS TO 
DETERMINE WAS WHETHER OR NOT THE
ROLE SHOULD BE SPLIT.
THAT WAS INTERESTING.
YOU HEARD PETER MACKAY AND 
TRACEY RAMSEY SAYING THIS WAS 
ALL A DISTRACTION.
AND THAT WAS THE OPPOSITION'S 
RESPONSE THAT THEY'RE TRYING TO 
MAKE THIS ABOUT THE JUSTICE 
MINISTER AND THE ATTORNEY 
GENERAL.
>> Andrew:  IT IS INTERESTING 
THAT IT'S DATED JUNE 28 AND THAT
IT COMES OUT TODAY.
THAT'S SOMEWHAT INTERESTING.
WHY TODAY?
>> SHE WAS SUPPOSED TO -- WE HAD
ACTUALLY HAD CONFIRMATION FROM 
THE PRIME MINISTER'S OFFICE THAT
THEY RECEIVED IT.
IT'S FUNNY THAT IT CAME OUT 
TODAY.
I KEPT ASKING WHEN WOULD THIS BE
RELEASED.
THEY KEPT SAYING THEY HAD 
NOTHING TO ADD.
I ASKED IF THERE WAS A TIMELINE 
TWO WEEKS AGO.
THEY HAD NOTHING TO ADD.
THE CONSERVATIVES ACTUALLY PUT 
OUT A RELEASE SAYING WHERE IS 
THIS THING.
AND THE PRIME MINISTER IN 
RESPONSE TO A REPORTER'S 
QUESTION SAID IT WILL BE TIMED 
WITH THE ETHICS COMMISSIONER'S 
REPORT, THAT THEY SUBMITTED THAT
TO THE ETHICS COMMISSIONER AS 
PART OF THEIR REPORT.
I THEN WENT BACK TO THE PRIME 
MINISTER'S OFFICE AND SAID IS 
THAT THE ETHICS COMMISSIONER WHO
ASKED YOU TO DO THAT OR ARE YOU 
DOING THIS OF YOUR OWN VOLITION 
AND AGAIN WAS TOLD THEY HAD 
NOTHING TO ADD.
THEY HAD IT IN THEIR HANDS FOR A
LITTLE WHILE.
I THINK THEY WANTED TO HAVE IT 
DROP AT ONCE AND TAKE THE WORST 
OF IT.
I DON'T KNOW THAT FOR A FACT.
FROM A COMMUNICATIONS 
PERSPECTIVE IT WOULD MAKE SENSE.
WHAT THIS WOULD DO IS TAKE AWAY 
FROM THE ARGUMENT.
IT DEFLATES THIS.
THAT THIS DIDN'T ALL HAPPEN 
BECAUSE THE ROLES WERE MUSHED 
TOGETHER AND NOT CLEAR ENOUGH 
THAT THERE WERE OTHER FACTORS AT
PLAY.
SHE DOES GO OVER SOME THINGS 
THAT SHOULD HAPPEN IN ORDER TO 
SEPARATE THE TWO AND BETTER 
FAMILIARIZE CABINET COLLEAGUES 
WITH THAT, AND THAT IS CHANGING 
THE OATH THAT THE ATTORNEY 
GENERAL AND THE JUSTICE MINISTER
TAKE.
BUT NOTHING HUGE HERE TO SAY 
THERE IS A BIG PROBLEM AND WE 
NEED TO SEPARATE THESE ROLES. 
>> Andrew:  VASSY, ANOTHER BUSY 
DAY.
HER SHOW IS STARTING IN A COUPLE
OF HOURS.
THIS WILL BE THE BIG STORY 
TODAY.
SHE JOINED US FROM OTTAWA.
>>> THIS IS THE SCENE LIVE IN 
NIAGARA ON THE LAKE IN ONTARIO 
WHERE ANY MOMENT NOW THE PRIME 
MINISTER IS EXPECTED TO ADDRESS 
THE ETHICS COMMISSIONER'S 
REPORT.
IT FINDS THAT TRUDEAU BROKE THE 
CONFLICT OF INTEREST RULES IN 
THE SNC-LAVALIN AFFAIR.
HOW WILL THE PRIME MINISTER 
RESPOND?
WE'LL BRING THAT TO YOU LIVE.
>>> FOR MORE ON ALL THIS I WANT 
TO TURN TO MY NEXT GUEST.
OMAR KHAN PREVIOUSLY SERVED AS 
CHIEF OF STAFF IN SEVERAL 
LIBERAL MINISTER OFFICES.
AND WE HAVE HANNAH THIBEDEAU IN 
STUDIO WITH US.
>>> OMAR, WE'VE BEEN SPEAKING TO
CONSERVATIVES AND NDP.
WE DID SPEAK -- I THINK WE SPOKE
WITH A LIBERAL STRATEGIST A FEW 
HOURS AGO.
BUT NOW IT'S BEEN A WHILE.
NOW THAT YOU'VE HAD TIME TO LOOK
AT THIS REPORT AND THE ETHICS 
COMMISSIONER AND ITS FINDING 
THAT THE PRIME MINISTER BROKE 
THE LAW, WHAT IS YOUR REACTION?
>> IT'S NOT GOOD, AND YOU'VE 
BEEN DISCUSSING THIS.
HAVING SOMETHING LIKE THIS DROP 
TEN WEEKS BEFORE A GENERAL 
ELECTION IS NOT SOMETHING ANY 
POLITICAL PARTY WOULD WANT.
FROM A POLITICAL PARTY 
PERSPECTIVE, I SUSPECT THAT A 
LOT OF CANADIANS HAVE ALREADY 
MADE UP THEIR MINDS ON THIS 
ISSUE.
MOST OF THE INFORMATION THAT 
WE'RE TALKING ABOUT TODAY HAS 
BEEN IN THE PUBLIC DOMAIN FOR A 
VERY LONG TIME. 
>> Andrew:  TO BE FAIR, THE 
ETHICS COMMISSIONER -- THE PRIME
MINISTER HAS ALWAYS SAID:  I 
DIDN'T DO ANYTHING WRONG.
I'M NOT APOLOGIZING TO JODY 
WILSON-RAYBOULD BECAUSE I DIDN'T
DO ANYTHING WRONG.
THE ETHICS COMMISSIONER IS 
SAYING, NOT ONLY DID YOU DO 
SOMETHING WRONG, YOU HAVE BROKEN
THE LAW.
>> THE PRIME MINISTER HAS SAID 
THERE'S LEARNINGS HERE AND I 
AGREE.
THERE'S DEFINITELY THINGS THAT 
HAPPENED THROUGHOUT THE COURSE 
OF THIS SAGA THAT COULD HAVE AND
SHOULD HAVE BEEN DONE 
DIFFERENTLY.
I THINK THE KEY FOR THE PRIME 
MINISTER AND HIS TEAM MOVING 
FORWARD NOW WILL BE TO ADMIT 
THAT, ADMIT THAT THERE ARE 
LEARNINGS AND CHANGES THAT NEED 
TO BE MADE.
I USED TO WORK FOR AN ATTORNEY 
GENERAL IN ONTARIO.
I DO THINK THE ROLES SHOULD BE 
SPLIT.
BUT TALK ABOUT WHAT IS UPCOMING 
AND IMPORTANT FOR CANADIANS, 
WHICH IS A GENERAL ELECTION 
CAMPAIGN WHERE THEY WILL BE 
ASKED TO MAKE AN IMPORTANT 
DECISION.
THAT DECISION IS DO YOU WANT TO 
SUPPORT A PRIME MINISTER WHO 
BELIEVES IN CLIMATE CHANGE AND 
WHO BELIEVES IN PLAYING A GLOBAL
ROLE ON THE FIGHT AGAINST 
CLIMATE CHANGE OR GO BACKWARDS.
DO YOU WANT TO GO TO A PRIME 
MINISTER THAT IS BACKWARDS.
LET'S JUST PUT IT ALL INTO 
CONTEXT. 
>> DO YOU THINK THAT'S GOING TO 
BE THE REAL CHOICE BEFORE 
CANADIANS?
>> I THINK CANADIANS NEED TO 
HAVE ALL THE INFORMATION ON THE 
TABLE.
AS THE ETHICS COMMISSIONER 
POINTED OUT, THERE IS STILL A 
LOT OF MATERIAL THAT WASN'T 
PROVIDED TO THEM EITHER THROUGH 
INTERVIEWS OR DOCUMENTS BECAUSE 
THE GOVERNMENT REFUSES TO WAIVE 
CABINET CONFIDENCE.
ALL THE INFORMATION HASN'T BEEN 
PRESENTED TO CANADIANS.
THE FACT IS THE PRIME MINISTER 
BROKE THE ETHICS CODE.
THIS ISN'T THE FIRST TIME HE'S 
DONE SO.
THE FACT IS HE PUT PARTISAN 
POLITICAL INTERESTS ABOVE THE 
LAW AND HE CAMPAIGNED ON 
TRANSPARENCY AND ACCOUNTABILITY 
AND HE HASN'T DELIVERED.
>> Andrew:  I WANT TO REMIND 
VIEWERS WHAT THEY'RE LOOKING AT 
ON THE RIGHT OF THEIR SCREEN.
>> WE CAN SEE THE PRIME MINISTER
WALKING UP THERE NOW. 
>> Andrew:  WE'RE GOING TO HEAR 
FROM JUSTIN TRUDEAU, THE PRIME 
MINISTER, AS HE IS APPROACHING 
THE MIC FOLLOWING THIS REPORT BY
THE ETHICS COMMISSIONER.
LET'S LISTEN IN.
>> GOOD AFTERNOON, EVERYONE.
MY NAME IS BETTY DESERO AND I AM
THE LORD MAYOR OF THE TOWN 
NIAGARA ON THE LAKE.
I AM JOINED TODAY BY MY -- 
[ APPLAUSE ]. 
>> THANK YOU.
I'M JOINED TODAY BY MY FELLOW 
MAYORS, MAYOR STEELE, MAYOR 
UGELINI, MAYOR JUNKEN AND OUR 
REGIONAL CHAIR JIM BRADLEY.
I'M ALSO JOINED TODAY BY MY 
COLLEAGUES OF COUNCIL, 
COUNCILLORS WEENS, BURROWS AND 
ARSENAULT.
WE WOULD LIKE TO WELCOME THE 
PRIME MINISTER AND HIS ENTOURAGE
TO NIAGARA ON THE LAKE.
AS YOU KNOW, PRIME MINISTER, 
NIAGARA ON THE LAKE IS THE FIRST
HOME TO ENGLISH IN CANADA AND 
HOLDS MANY FIRSTS FOR PEOPLE IN 
OUR COUNTRY AND AROUND THE 
WORLD.
IF I CAN TAKE A MOMENT TO BOAST 
LAURA SECORD'S WALK STARTED OUR 
NATION.
WE WERE THE FIRST IN THE BRITISH
EMPIRE TO START THE ABOLITION OF
SLAVERY.
AS WELL, WE ARE BLESSED WITH 
RICH SOIL THAT ENABLES OUR 
FARMERS TO HAVE AMAZING ORCHARDS
AND VINEYARDS.
BECAUSE OF THIS WE SEE MILLIONS 
OF TOURISTS EACH YEAR AND OUR 
POPULATION IN OUR SETTLEMENT 
AREAS IS GROWING.
AS A MUNICIPALITY, WE WORK ON 
TRYING NOT ONLY TO MANAGE THAT 
ECONOMY, BUT FIRST AND FOREMOST 
OUR OBLIGATION -- 
>> Andrew:  ALL RIGHT.
SO YOU ARE LOOKING AT THE SCENE 
LIVE AT NIAGARA ON THE LAKE IN 
ONTARIO WHERE YOU CAN SEE THE 
PRIME MINISTER, JUSTIN TRUDEAU, 
IS THERE ALONG WITH SOME OTHER 
REGIONAL LOCAL OFFICIALS THERE.
WE ARE EXPECTING THE PRIME 
MINISTER TO APPROACH THAT PODIUM
ANY MOMENT NOW, AND HE WILL 
UNDOUBTEDLY BE ASKED BY 
REPORTERS HIS REACTION TO A 
FINDING TODAY BY THE ETHICS 
COMMISSIONER THAT HE CONTRAVENED
THE CONFLICT OF INTEREST ACT.
THIS IS ALL AROUND, IF YOU'RE 
JUST JOINING US, THE 
INAPPROPRIATE PRESSURE THAT THE 
FORMER ATTORNEY GENERAL AND 
MINISTER OF JUSTICE, JODY 
WILSON-RAYBOULD, FELT THAT SHE 
FELT WITH REGARD TO A DEFERRED 
PROSECUTION AGREEMENT WITH 
REGARD TO TO SNC-LAVALIN.
WE'RE GOING TO TAKE THE PRIME 
MINISTER'S REMARKS AS SOON AS HE
APPROACHES THAT MICROPHONE AND 
SEE WHAT HE HAS TO SAY ABOUT ALL
THIS.
WE HAVE OMAR KHAN, A LIBERAL, 
SHAKIR CHAMBERS A CONSERVATIVE.
I'M SHORTHANDING.
LET'S LISTEN IN.
LET'S LISTEN TO THE PRIME 
MINISTER.
>> Rt. Hon. Justin Trudeau: GOOD
AFTERNOON, EVERYONE.
IT'S GREAT TO BE HERE AT NIAGARA
ON THE LATE.
THANK YOU, MAYOR, FOR THAT 
INTRODUCTION.
YOU ARE TRULY AN INCREDIBLE 
VOICE IN YOUR COMMUNITY.
I ALSO WANT TO RECOGNIZE MAYOR 
MCGARVEY, THE PRESIDENT OF THE 
ASSOCIATION OF MUNICIPALITIES OF
ONTARIO AND THE PRESIDENT OF THE
CANADIAN MUNICIPALITIES.
SPEAKING FOR THE VOICES OF THE 
NIAGARA REGION, A BIG SHOUT OUT 
TO OUR M.P.s HERE THIS 
AFTERNOON.
PEOPLE HERE KNOW THEY CAN COUNT 
ON THE M.P.s TO WORK HARD EVERY 
DAY ON THEIR BEHALF.
IN FACT, DELIVERING REAL RESULTS
FOR THE MIDDLE CLASS IS EXACTLY 
WHY WE'RE HERE TODAY.
[SPEAKING FRENCH]. 
>> Interpreter:  OVER THE LAST 
FOUR YEARS OUR GOVERNMENT HAS 
MADE SIGNIFICANT INVESTMENTS IN 
THE NIAGARA REGION, WHETHER IT 
WAS TO IMPROVE TRANSIT OR TO 
BUILD AFFORDABLE HOUSING, WE 
HAVE BEEN WORKING WITH LOCAL 
LEADERS ON CRITICAL PROJECTS.
IN MARCH, WE ANNOUNCED EVEN MORE
SUPPORT FOR NEW LOCAL PROJECTS.
[END OF TRANSLATION]. 
>> Rt. Hon. Justin Trudeau: WERE
DOUBLING THE AMOUNT OF MONEY 
THAT MUNICIPALITIES GET THROUGH 
THE FEDERAL TRANSFER.
WHAT THAT MEANS FOR PEOPLE IN 
ONTARIO IS FUNDING THAT GOES 
DIRECTLY TO MUNICIPAL FUNDING 
PRIORITIES, PROJECTS THAT MATTER
TO YOU.
THE REALITY IS THAT SOME 
PROVINCIAL GOVERNMENTS HAVE 
DECIDED TO PLAY POLITICS AND 
WITHHOLD INFRASTRUCTURE DOLLARS 
MEANT FOR COMMUNITIES.
I DON'T HAVE TO TELL ANYONE IN 
ONTARIO WHAT CUTS TO FUNDING 
MEAN FOR FAMILIES, STUDENTS, AND
FOR SENIORS.
JUST TAKE THE MILLIONS OF 
DOLLARS ON THE LINE FOR THE NEW 
NIAGARA SPORTS FACILITIES TO 
HOST THE 2021 CANADA SUMMER 
GAMES, AN INITIATIVE THAT'S IN 
JEOPARDY BECAUSE THE PROVINCIAL 
GOVERNMENT WON'T PRIORITIZE IT.
WELL, OUR GOVERNMENT KNOWS THAT 
IT ISN'T BY REFUSING TO FUND 
LOCAL PROJECTS THAT WE MAKE LIFE
BETTER FOR THE MIDDLE CLASS.
IT'S BY INVESTING IN CANADIANS 
AND IN THEIR FUTURE.
LOOK NO FURTHER THAN RIGHT HERE 
IN THE NIAGARA REGION.
WITH ALMOST $14 MILLION FOR THE 
NIAGARA AREA THROUGH THE 
MUNICIPAL TOP-UP, WE'RE GETTING 
SHOVELS IN THE GROUND FOR 
IMPORTANT PROJECTS.
FROM IMPROVING PUBLIC TRANSIT 
AND HELPING FAMILIES GET AROUND 
FASTER, TO MAKING SURE THAT 
SENIORS HAVE A SAFE AND 
AFFORDABLE PLACE TO LIVE, THESE 
INVESTMENTS MAKE A POSITIVE 
DIFFERENCE IN PEOPLE'S LIVES.
MY FRIENDS, WHEN WE WORK 
TOGETHER, WE BUILD A STRONGER 
ECONOMY, GOOD MIDDLE-CLASS JOBS,
AND THRIVING COMMUNITIES FOR 
PEOPLE TO RAISE THEIR FAMILIES.
[SPEAKING FRENCH]. 
>> Interpreter:  ONCE AGAIN, 
IT'S FANTASTIC TO BE HERE IN 
NIAGARA ON THE LAKE.
I WOULD LIKE TO TURN IT OVER TO 
MAYOR MCGARVEY AND I WOULD BE 
HAPPY TO TAKE YOUR QUESTIONS.
[END OF TRANSLATION]. 
>> GOOD AFTERNOON, BONJOUR.
MY NAME IS JAMIE MCGARVEY 
PRESIDENT OF THE ASSOCIATION OF 
MUNICIPALITIES OF ONTARIO.
>> Andrew:  THERE WE HAVE THE 
PRIME MINISTER ADDRESSING THE 
CROWD THERE.
HE IS GOING TO TAKE SOME 
QUESTIONS.
HE DIDN'T ADDRESS THE KEY 
QUESTION THAT I THINK IS ON THE 
MIND OF A LOT OF CANADIANS RIGHT
NOW.
OBVIOUSLY HE'S THERE AHEAD OF AN
ELECTION CAMPAIGN IN NIAGARA ON 
THE LAKE IN ONTARIO.
WE ARE GOING TO TALK TO ONE OF 
OUR CORRESPONDENTS.
WE ARE GOING TO TALK WITH HANNAH
THIBEDEAU IN THE STUDIO.
OMAR, I WANT TO ASK YOU:  DO YOU
THINK THE PRIME MINISTER SHOULD 
APPROACH THAT MICROPHONE AND 
SAY:  I WAS WRONG.
I'M SORRY TO CANADIANS.
I'M SORRY TO JODY 
WILSON-RAYBOULD?
>> I THINK HE SHOULD SAY WHAT HE
SAID BEFORE, WHICH IS THAT 
THINGS SHOULD HAVE BEEN DONE 
DIFFERENTLY.
THE IMPORTANT THING TO KEEP IN 
MIND HERE IS THE INTENT BEHIND 
WHAT WAS DONE.
YOU CAN ARGUE WHETHER WHAT WAS 
DONE WAS APPROPRIATE OR 
INAPPROPRIATE.
THE INTENT -- AND THIS IS PROVEN
THROUGH ALL OF THE E-MAIL 
RECORDS AND THE TESTIMONY AT THE
SELECT COMMITTEE, THE INTENT WAS
ALWAYS ABOUT MAKING SURE THAT 
THOUSANDS OF CANADIANS WHO WORK 
FOR THIS COMPANY HAVE NO 
RESPONSIBILITY TO BEAR FOR ANY 
PAST MISDEEDS THAT MAY HAVE 
OCCURRED WITH RESPECT TO THIS 
COMPANY ARE NOT PENALIZED BY 
LOSING THEIR LIVELIHOOD -- 
>> Andrew:  THERE'S SOME 
QUESTION ABOUT WHETHER OR NOT 
THAT WOULD HAVE BEEN CASE, THEY 
WOULD HAVE HAD JOBS WITH OTHER 
FIRMS. 
>> PERHAPS.
BUT NOBODY CAN ARGUE IF YOU LOOK
AT THE RECORD IN WRITING AND IN 
TESTIMONY, THAT THE OVERARCHING 
OBJECTIVE BEHIND ALL OF THESE 
DISCUSSIONS WAS ABOUT DOING 
WHATEVER COULD BE DONE OR 
EXPLORING WHATEVER AVENUES WERE 
AVAILABLE TO TRY AND PROTECT 
THOSE JOBS OF HARD-WORKING 
CANADIANS.
>> OMAR, I THINK YOU CAN TALK 
INTENT, BUT WHEN WE WERE YOUNGER
YOU WERE TAUGHT IF YOU DID 
SOMETHING WRONG AND YOU WERE 
CAUGHT DOING SOMETHING WRONG, 
THE EASIEST THING IS TO 
APOLOGIZE AND MOVE FORWARD.
WOULDN'T THE EASIEST WAY BE TO 
ACKNOWLEDGE AND APOLOGIZE AND 
MOVE FORWARD?
>> I THINK FROM A COMMUNICATIONS
POINT IT'S HARD TO ARGUE WITH AN
INDEPENDENT FINDING OF A 
LEGISLATOR.
THEY ARE NOT THE VOICE OF GOD, 
BUT IT IS DIFFICULT POLITICS TO 
DO THAT.
THAT BEING SAID, HE HAS ALREADY 
SAID THAT THINGS SHOULD HAVE 
BEEN DONE AND COULD HAVE BEEN 
DONE DIFFERENTLY.
I THINK CANADIANS ARE OPEN AND 
FORGIVING ENOUGH TO ACCEPT THAT 
AND TO REALLY LOOK TO THE 
GENERAL ELECTION.
THERE'S ONLY TWO PEOPLE ON THE 
BALLOT WHO CAN BE PRIME MINISTER
AND THAT'S ANDREW SCHEER AND 
JUSTIN TRUDEAU.
IT'S A CLEAR, CLEAR DIFFERENCE 
IN THEIR VISION FOR THIS 
COUNTRY.
ONE WANTS TO FIGHT CLIMATE 
CHANGE.
ONE WANTS TO PUT HIS HEAD IN THE
SAND.
ONE WANTS TO LIFT PEOPLE OUT OF 
POVERTY INTO THE MIDDLE CLASS.
ONE SUPPORTS PREMIERS ACROSS THE
THIS COUNTRY WHO ARE MAKING CUTS
TO SUPPORT THE MIDDLE CLASS.
>> Andrew:  SHAKIR, IT'S 
IMPORTANT YOU USED THE WORDS 
THAT CANADIANS ARE FORGIVING.
ANDREW SCHEER SAID THIS IS 
UNFORGIVEABLE.
THE AGA KHAN TRIP WAS SHOCKING 
AND THEN HE CALLED ON THE PRIME 
MINISTER TO RESIGN OVER THIS 
WHOLE SNC-LAVALIN.
HE SAID, NO, I DON'T WANT HIM TO
RESIGN.
I WANT TO DEFEAT HIM, BUT THIS 
FINDING IS UNFORGIVEABLE.
IS THAT HOW YOU WOULD 
CHARACTERIZE THIS INVESTIGATION 
IN THIS REPORT?
>> IT IS UNFORGIVEABLE.
AT THE END OF THE DAY CANADIANS 
ARE GOING TO MAKE THEIR CHOICES 
COME ELECTION DAY.
WHEN OMAR TALKS ABOUT THE 
INTENT, THE INTENT WAS MADE 
CLEAR.
EVERY POLITICIAN WANTS TO 
PROTECT AND CREATE JOBS.
BUT CREATING JOBS IS NOT ABOVE 
THE LAW.
THE LAW IS CENTRAL TO CANADIAN 
SOCIETY.
AND FOR THE PRIME MINISTER TO 
THINK THAT HE AND HIS STAFF CAN 
GO AROUND THE LAW TO PARTISAN 
POLITICAL INTERESTS ABOVE 
CANADIAN LAW, I THINK IT'S JUST 
WRONG.
IT'S UNFORGIVEABLE, AS 
MR. SCHEER SAID.
>> Andrew:  SHOULD THE PRIME 
MINISTER APOLOGIZE TOO?
>> I THINK HE HAS NO CHOICE BUT 
TO APOLOGIZE, NOT JUST TO 
MINISTER RAYBOULD WHO SUFFERED 
GREAT POLITICAL CONSEQUENCES, 
BUT TO CANADIANS.
HE CAMPAIGNED ON BEING DIFFERENT
AND DOING POLITICS DIFFERENTLY.
>> I DON'T THINK THERE'S ANY 
EVIDENCE THAT'S BEEN PUT FORWARD
TO SUGGEST THAT THE PRIME 
MINISTER OR THOSE AROUND HIM 
FELT THAT THEY WERE OPERATING 
OUTSIDE OF WHAT'S KOSHER 
LEGALLY.
YOU CAN ARGUE THAT THEY WERE 
RIGHT OR WRONG, BUT I DON'T 
THINK ANY EVIDENCE HAS BEEN 
PRESENTED TO SAY THAT.
>> THE COMMISSIONER SAID THEY 
WERE WRONG. 
>> I'M TALKING ABOUT INTENT.
I LIKE WHAT FORMER DEPUTY PRIME 
MINISTER AND ATTORNEY GENERAL 
CAME OUT WITH TODAY.
I DO THINK THERE IS A GREATER 
CLARITY REQUIRED AROUND THE 
SEPARATION OF THE ROLE OF LAW, 
OFFICER OF THE CROWN, WHICH IS 
THE ATTORNEY GENERAL AND THAT OF
JUSTICE MINISTER.
I THINK WE NEED MORE PROTOCOLS 
IN PLACE TO ENSURE THAT THOSE 
ROLES REMAIN SEPARATE -- 
>> BUT HOW IS THAT DIFFERENT IN 
THIS CASE?
>> WELL, LOOK, IT CAN BE 
CONFUSING.
I HAVE BEEN A SENIOR ADVISOR TO 
AN ONTARIO ATTORNEY GENERAL.
IT IS A DUAL ROLE.
SO AS THE ATTORNEY GENERAL YOU 
ARE THE CHIEF LAW OFFICER OF THE
CROWN.
SO YOU ARE RESPONSIBLE FOR THE 
ADMINISTRATION OF JUSTICE.
BUT YOU ARE ALSO THE MINISTER OF
JUSTICE, WHICH IS A POLICY 
FUNCTION.
IT IS A POLITICAL CABINET 
FUNCTION.
WHEN YOU ARE BEFORE A CABINET 
AND DELIVERING LEGAL ADVICE, 
IT'S HARD SOMETIMES TO SEPARATE 
THOSE TWO ROLES.
I'M NOT SAYING THAT IT'S 
IMPOSSIBLE, BUT THERE ARE OTHER 
JURISDICTIONS LIKE THE 
UNITED KINGDOM AND OTHERS, WHERE
THEY HAVE SEPARATED OUT THESE 
TWO ROLES, SPECIFICALLY FOR 
THIS -- SPECIFICALLY BECAUSE OF 
THIS ISSUE AND TO AVOID SOME OF 
THE CONFUSION I THINK THAT WE 
HAVE SEEN IN THIS INSTANCE.
>> Andrew:  BUT, SHAKIR, IS THAT
THE STORY TODAY?
>> THAT'S NOT THE STORY.
IF YOU LOOK AT THE DATE ON THE 
REPORT -- 
>> JUNE 28.
>> IT'S QUITE A COINCIDENCE THAT
IT CAME OUT THEN BUT BEING 
RELEASED TODAY ON THE DATE THIS 
RULING CAME OUT.
>> Andrew:  SORRY TO INTERRUPT.
HERE IS THE PRIME MINISTER.
LET'S LISTEN.
>> Rt. Hon. Justin Trudeau: I'M 
HAPPY TO TAKE QUESTIONS FROM 
MEDIA.
>> Question:  IF YOU COULD 
ANSWER MY QUESTIONS IN ENGLISH 
AND IN FRENCH.
THIS IS IN REGARDS TO THE ETHICS
COMMISSIONER REPORT.
YOU PROMISED TO DO POLITICS 
DIFFERENTLY.
MILLIONS VOTED FOR YOU ON THAT 
BASIS.
WHAT WOULD YOU SAY TO THOSE 
DISAPPOINTED AND WHAT 
RESPONSIBILITY DO YOU THINK YOU 
HAVE ABOUT WHAT HAS TRANSPIRED?
>> Rt. Hon. Justin Trudeau: 
FIRST OFF, I WANT TO THANK THE 
ETHICS COMMISSIONER FOR HIS 
REPORT.
EVEN THOUGH I DISAGREE WITH SOME
OF HIS CONCLUSIONS, I FULLY 
ACCEPT THIS REPORT AND TAKE 
RESPONSIBILITY FOR EVERYTHING 
THAT HAPPENED.
WHERE I DISAGREE WITH THE 
COMMISSIONER, AMONGST OTHERS, IS
WHERE HE SAYS AND TAKES A STRONG
PERSPECTIVE THAT ANY CONTACT 
WITH THE A.G., THE ATTORNEY 
GENERAL, ON THIS ISSUE WAS 
IMPROPER.
MY JOB AS A PRIME MINISTER IS TO
STAND UP FOR CANADIANS AND 
DEFEND THEIR INTERESTS.
YES, IT IS ESSENTIAL THAT WE DO 
THAT IN A WAY THAT DEFENDS OUR 
INSTITUTIONS, THAT UPHOLDS 
PROSECUTORIAL INDEPENDENCE.
WE NEED TO BE ABLE TO TALK ABOUT
THE IMPACTS ON CANADIANS RIGHT 
ACROSS THE COUNTRY ON DECISIONS 
BEING MADE.
BUT I ACCEPT THE REPORT THAT THE
COMMISSIONER PUT FORWARD AND 
EVEN IN ADVANCE OF THIS REPORT A
NUMBER OF MONTHS AGO I TASKED 
FORMER ATTORNEY GENERAL ANNE 
MCCLELLAN TO GATHER A GROUP OF 
EXPERTS, INCLUDING MANY FORMER 
ATTORNEYS GENERAL AND ACADEMICS 
AND POLITICAL EXPERTS TO WEIGH 
IN ON THIS QUESTION, TO FIGURE 
OUT HOW TO MOVE FORWARD IN A WAY
THAT ALLOWS US TO UPHOLD THE 
INTERESTS OF CANADIANS AND 
ADVOCATE FOR THE INTERESTS OF 
CANADIANS WHILE AT THE SAME TIME
FULLY RESPECTING PROSECUTORIAL 
INDEPENDENCE.
I LOOK FORWARD TO IMPLEMENTING 
THE VARIOUS RECOMMENDATIONS SHE 
MADE BECAUSE WHAT HAPPENED OVER 
THE PAST YEAR SHOULDN'T HAVE 
HAPPENED.
I TAKE RESPONSIBILITY FOR IT.
WE NEED TO MAKE SURE THAT MY 
GOVERNMENT OR ANY GOVERNMENT 
GOING FORWARD NEVER IS IN THAT 
SITUATION AGAIN.
>> Question:  IN FRENCH, PLEASE.
[SPEAKING FRENCH]. 
>> Interpreter:  FIRST OF ALL, I
WOULD LIKE TO THANK THE ETHICS 
COMMISSIONER FOR HIS WORK AND 
HIS REPORT, EVEN THOUGH I 
DISAGREE WITH SOME OF HIS 
CONCLUSIONS, I DO ACCEPT THAT 
REPORT FULLY.
BUT WHERE I DISAGREE IS ON HIS 
CONCLUSION THAT ANY CONTACT WITH
THE ATTORNEY GENERAL ON THIS 
ISSUE WAS NECESSARILY 
INAPPROPRIATE.
A FUNDAMENTAL PART OF MY JOB AND
THE JOB OF ANY POLITICIAN IS TO 
REPRESENT AND DEFEND THE 
INTERESTS OF ALL CANADIANS, THE 
PUBLIC INTEREST.
AND WE HAVE AN OBLIGATION AND WE
MUST BE ABLE TO DEFEND THE 
PUBLIC INTEREST WHILE AT THE 
SAME TIME RESPECTING THE 
PROSECUTORIAL INDEPENDENCE AND 
THAT'S WHY FOR SEVERAL MONTHS I 
ASKED THE FORMER ATTORNEY 
GENERAL TO DELIVER A REPORT AND 
SHE CONSULTED WITH MANY, MANY 
EXPERTS BEFORE MAKING HER 
RECOMMENDATIONS ON HOW TO 
IMPROVE THE SYSTEM.
CURRENTLY NO GOVERNMENT SHOULD 
BE IN THE POSITION WHERE THERE'S
A CONTRADICTION BETWEEN THE 
PUBLIC INTEREST AND OUR JUDICIAL
SYSTEM.
[Voice of interpreter]:
AS A RESULT, WE WILL BE
MAKING RECOMMENDATIONS,
AND ACTING ON THE ONES IN
THE McLELLAN REPORT.
>> THE ETHNICS
COMMISSIONER FOUND THAT
THE OFFICE WAS USED TO
CIRCUMVENT AND ULTIMATELY
DISCREDIT THE PUBLIC
AUTHORITIES, AS WELL AS
MS. JODY WILSON-RAYBOULD.
WILL YOU FIRE ELDER
MARKQUÉ AND MATTHEW
BOUCHARD?
>> Prime Minister Justin
Trudeau: I TAKE FULL
RESPONSIBILITY, AND THE
BUCK STOPS WITH THE PRIME
MINISTER.
I ASSUME RESPONSIBILITY
FOR EVERYTHING THAT
HAPPENED IN MY OFFICE.
THIS IS IMPORTANT BECAUSE
I TRU
WE, AT THE SAME TIME, HAVE
A SYSTEM IN WHICH WE HAVE
TO MAKE IMPROVEMENTS.
THERE ARE MANY LESSONS TO
BE LEARNED ON THIS, AND
THAT'S WHY WE WILL BE
MOVING FORWARD WITH THE
RECOMMENDATIONS ON HOW TO
BOTH ADVOCATE FOR THE
PUBLIC INTEREST AND DEFEND
THE INTEGRITY AND THE
INDEPENDENCE OF OUR
JUDICIAL AND PROSECUTORIAL
PROCESSES.
THOSE THINGS TOGETHER ARE
IMPORTANT LYNCHPINS OF OUR
SYSTEM, AND THEY SHOULDN'T
BE PUT INTO CONFLICT AS
THEY WERE, AS SPELLED OUT
BY THE ETHICS
COMMISSIONER.
SO I RECOGNIZE THE LESSONS
TO BE LEARNED.
I TAKE THEM VERY
SERIOUSLY.
I TAKE, OBVIOUSLY, THE
ETHIC COMMISSIONER'S
REPORT VERY SERIOUSLY, AND
WE WILL MOVE FORWARD TO
MAKE SURE THAT THIS NEVER
HAPPENS AGAIN UNDER ANY
GOVERNMENT IN THIS
COUNTRY.
[APPLAUSE]
[Speaking French]
[Voice of interpreter]:
WE TAKE THIS SITUATION
VERY SERIOUSLY, THIS
CONFLICT BETWEEN THE
PUBLIC INTEREST AND
JUDICIAL INDEPENDENCE.
THAT SHOULD NEVER HAVE
HAPPENED.
AND THAT IS WHY I TAKE
FULL RESPONSIBILITY FOR
WHAT WE DID, BUT I ALSO
TAKE RESPONSIBILITY ABOUT
THE FACT THAT WE NEED TO
CHANGE OUR PROCESSES AND
SYSTEMS, AND THE WAY NOT
ONLY OUR GOVERNMENT, BUT
ANY GOVERNMENT IN THE
FUTURE, ACTS IN A SIMILAR
SITUATION.
>> MATTHEW BOUCHARD WILL
STAY ON, AS WILL GERALD
BUTTS?
>> Prime Minister Justin
Trudeau: WE ARE FACING A
MOMENT IN A COUPLE OF
MONTHS WHERE CANADIANS GET
TO MAKE A CHOICE ABOUT THE
KIND OF GOVERNMENT THEY
WANT TO SEE LEAD THEM, AND
THEY WILL MAKE JUDGMENTS
BASED ON MERITS, BASED ON
EXPERIENCE, BASED ON
PROPOSALS AND PLANS.
I AM LOOKING FORWARD TO
CONTINUING MY
CONVERSATIONS WITH
CANADIANS ABOUT HOW WE'VE
DELIVERED FOR PEOPLE, BUT
HOW MUCH MORE WORK THERE
IS TO DO.
AS WE ROLL UP OUR SLEEVES,
AS WE LEARN LESSONS, AND
AS WE CONTINUE TO DELIVER
FOR THE MIDDLE CLASS AND
PEOPLE WORKING HARD TO
JOIN IT WITH THE GREAT
TEAM THAT I HAVE BEHIND ME
AND ALL AROUND ME.
[Speaking French]
>> Prime Minister Justin
Trudeau:
[Voice of interpreter]:
I'M LOOKING FORWARD TO
BEING ABLE TO PROPOSE TO
CANADIANS OUR VISION FOR
THE FUTURE IN THIS
ELECTION YEAR.
IT WILL BE AN OPPORTUNITY
FOR CANADIANS TO CHOOSE
UNDER WHAT GOVERNMENT THEY
WISH TO CONTINUE TO BUILD
THEIR COUNTRY.
I'M VERY PROUD OF ALL
WE'VE DONE, AND I'M VERY
CONSCIOUS, AS WELL, ALL OF
THE THINGS WE HAVE LEARNED
OVER THE PAST FOUR YEARS.
BUT I KNOW WE STILL HAVE A
LOT OF WORK TO DO TO MAKE
EVEN MORE IMPROVEMENTS TO
THE SITUATION OF THE
MIDDLE CLASS, THE
ENVIRONMENT, AND TO HELP
EVERYONE IN CANADA.
AND THAT'S WHAT WE INTEND
TO DO IN THE COMING
MONTHS.
AND THAT'S WHAT I HOPE TO
BE ABLE TO DO OVER THE
NEXT FEW YEARS, IF
CANADIANS STILL WISH.
[End of translation]
>> Reporter: IN TODAY'S
REPORT, MR. YOUNG POINTS
OUT HE WAS UNABLE TO FULLY
COMPLETE HIS INVESTIGATIVE
MANDATE BECAUSE HE WAS
IMPEDED IN GETTING
INFORMATION, CABINET
CONFIDENCES BY THE PRIVY
CLERK, WHICH HE MAKES NO
BONES ABOUT.
IT WAS A TREMENDOUS
STUMBLING BLOCK TO REACH
THE END OF HIS
INVESTIGATION.
DO YOU THINK THAT'S AN
APPROPRIATE ACTION BY THE
PRIVY CLERK'S OFFICE, AND
WHAT WILL YOU, IF
ANYTHING, DO ABOUT IT?
>> Prime Minister Justin
Trudeau: THE CABINET
CONFIDENTIALITY AND
ATTORNEY-CLIENT PRIVILEGE
ARE TWO OF THE FUNDAMENTAL
ELEMENTS THAT UPHOLD OUR
DEMOCRACY AND OUR SYSTEM
OF GOVERNMENT.
SO IT WAS NOT A SMALL
THING FOR OUR GOVERNMENT
TO DECIDE TO WAIVE BOTH
SOLICITOR-CLIENT PRIVILEGE
AND CABINET CONFIDENCE IN
THE MATTER BEING STUDIED
BOTH BY THE COMMITTEE AND
BY THE ETHICS
COMMISSIONER.
WE TOOK THAT DECISION
BECAUSE WE KNEW THAT IT
WAS IMPORTANT THAT
CANADIANS, AND OBVIOUSLY
THE ETHICS COMMISSIONER,
WOULD BE ABLE TO ACCESS
ALL INFORMATION AND HEAR
ALL TESTIMONY IN REGARDS
TO THE MATTER AT HAND.
WE DID EXACTLY THAT, AND
THAT IS WHY WE WERE ABLE
TO HAVE SUCH FULSOM
PARLIAMENTARY STUDY AND
SUCH A FULSOM ETHICS
COMMISSIONER'S REPORT.
THE DECISION BY THE PRIVY
COUNCIL TO NOT FURTHER
EXTEND INTO LESS RELEVANT
OR NON-RELEVANT ELEMENTS
OF CABINET CON.
CONFIDENTIALITYAND SOLICITOR-CLT
PRIVILEGE IS AN IMPORTANT
ONE THAT MAINTAINS THE
INSTITUTION, AND OUR
CAPACITY TO FUNCTION AS A
GOVERNMENT WITHOUT SETTING
TROUBLESOME OR WORRISOME
PRECEDENTS.
[Speaking French]
>> Prime Minister Justin
Trudeau:
[Voice of interpreter]:
WE TOOK UNPRECEDENTED
STEPS WHICH WERE TO SET
ASIDE THE CABINET
CONFIDENCES AND CABINET
CONFIDENTIALITY, AS WELL
AS SOLICITOR-CLIENT
PRIVILEGE.
WE KNEW THAT WAS IMPORTANT
IN ORDER FOR THE ETHICS
COMMISSIONER AND THE
PARLIAMENTARY COMMITTEE TO
BE ABLE TO DO THEIR WORK.
THAT WAS A SIGNIFICANT
ACTION, TO ENSURE
TRANSPARENCY AND ALLOW
CANADIANS TO KNOW WHAT
HAPPENED.
WE RECOGNIZE THAT THIS IS
SOMETHING VERY IMPORTANT
FOR GOOD GOVERNANCE IN
THIS COUNTRY, THIS TYPE OF
CONFIDENTIALITY.
BUT WE SET IT ASIDE AS
PART OF THE INQUIRY ON
THESE ISSUES BECAUSE WE
REALIZED IT WAS IMPORTANT.
AND THERE MUST BE LIMITS
WHEN IT COMES TO WAIVING
THIS PRIVILEGE AND THIS
PRINCIPLE.
BECAUSE WE HAVE A DUTY TO
CONTINUE TO HAVE A SYSTEM
THAT WORKS PROPERLY IN
ORDER TO PROPERLY GOVERN
CANADA.
[End of translation]
>> Reporter: DO YOU TAKE
RESPONSIBILITY FOR WHAT
HAPPENED IN THIS AFFAIR --
IT HARKENS BACK TO
SOMETHING YOU WROTE ON
TWITTER AND 2013, WHEN YOU
SAID IT IS HARD NOT TO
FEEL DISAPPOINTED IN YOUR
GOVERNMENT WHEN THERE IS A
NEW SCANDAL EVERY DAY.
THIS PARTICULAR ISSUE HAS
BEEN BEFORE CANADIANS NOW
FOR MANY, MANY MONTHS.
YOU'VE COME INTO SOME
INTENSE CRITICISM FROM THE
COMMISSIONER TODAY.
WOULD YOU SAY YOU TAKE
RESPONSIBILITY?
WHAT DOES THAT ACTUALLY
LOOK LIKE IN CONCRETE
TERMS?
AND WHAT DO YOU SAY TO
DISAPPOINTED CANADIANS WHO
MAY NOT WANT TO VOTE FOR
YOU NOW BASED ON WHAT
THEY'RE READING TODAY?
>> Prime Minister Justin
Trudeau: TAKING
RESPONSIBILITY MEANS
RECOGNIZING THAT WHAT WE
DID OVER THE PAST YEAR
WASN'T GOOD ENOUGH.
BUT AT THE SAME TIME, I
CAN'T APOLOGIZE FOR
STANDING UP FOR CANADIAN
JOBS BECAUSE THAT'S PART
OF WHAT CANADIANS EXPECT
ME TO DO.
THEY EXPECT ME, ALSO, TO
STAND UP FOR OUR
INSTITUTIONS, AND AS THE
ETHICS COMMISSIONER
POINTED OUT, THOSE TWO
ELEMENTS CAME INTO
CONFLICT IN AN UNFORTUNATE
WAY FOR WHICH I TAKE FULL
RESPONSIBILITY.
BUT MORE THAN JUST TAKING
RESPONSIBILITY FOR WHAT
HAPPENED IN THE PAST, IT
MEANS MAKING SURE THAT
THIS MISTAKE NEVER HAPPENS
AGAIN.
AND THAT IS WHY MONTHS
AGO, EVEN BEFORE TODAY, WE
ASKED A PANEL OF EXPERTS
TO SUBMIT RECOMMENDATIONS
ON HOW OUR GOVERNMENT AND
ALL FUTURE GOVERNMENTS
WILL BE ABLE TO BALANCE
AND NAVIGATE THROUGH THE
VERY IMPORTANT PRINCIPLES
OF DEFENDING THE PUBLIC
INTEREST AND RESPECTING
AND UPHOLDING
PROSECUTORIAL INDEPENDENCE
AND THE INDEPENDENCE OF
OUR JUDICIARY.
THOSE RECOMMENDATIONS,
WHICH ARE OUT TODAY, ARE
VERY MUCH THINGS THAT WILL
ALLOW US TO MOVE FORWARD
AND MAKE RIGHT WHAT
OBVIOUSLY DIDN'T WORK OVER
THE LAST YEAR, AS WE TRIED
TO BALANCE COMPETING
INTERESTS AND FELL SHORT,
AS THE ETHICS COMMISSIONER
POINTED OUT.
[APPLAUSE]
[Speaking French]
>> Prime Minister Justin
Trudeau:
[Voice of interpreter]:
TAKING RESPONSIBILITY IS
FIRST AND FOREMOST
RECOGNIZING THE WAY WE
ACTED AND REALIZE THAT IT
WASN'T THE RIGHT WAY TO
ACT, EVEN THOUGH OUR
INTENTIONS WERE THE BEST
POSSIBLE.
WE WERE SEEKING TO DEFEND
THE PUBLIC INTEREST WHILE
AT THE SAME TIME
RESPECTING JUDICIAL
INDEPENDENCE.
WE HAD A DUTY TO DO THINGS
DIFFERENTLY, WE SHOULD
HAVE DONE THINGS
DIFFERENTLY, AND THAT'S
WHY I ASKED A GROUP OF
EXPERTS TO MAKE
RECOMMENDATIONS ON HOW OUR
GOVERNMENT, AND ANY FUTURE
GOVERNMENT, CAN ENSURE
THAT THOSE TWO THINGS DO
NOT COME INTO CONFLICT
AGAIN.
AND THERE HAS TO BE BOTH
BECAUSE THAT'S WHAT
CANADIANS EXPECT.
WE MUST BE ABLE TO DEFEND
CANADIANS AND THEIR JOBS
WHILE AT THE SAME TIME
ENSURING THE INDEPENDENCE
OF THE ATTORNEY-GENERAL.
>> Reporter: I'M FROM
THE CANADIAN PRESS.
THE REPORT TODAY SHOWS
THAT YOUR GOVERNMENT
CHANGED THE CRIMINAL CODE
AFTER THE SNC-LAVALIN
HEAVILY LOBBIED YOUR
OFFICE AND MEMBERS OF YOUR
CABINET FOR A LEGAL ESCAPE
HATCH.
HOW CAN YOU CONVINCE
CANADIANS THAT THIS IS NOT
PROOF OF SOME POWERFUL
CORPORATE INFLUENCE OVER
YOUR GOVERNMENT?
>> Prime Minister Justin
Trudeau: THE DEFERRED
PROSECUTION AGREEMENT IS
AN ELEMENT THAT IS IN
PLACE IN MANY, MANY
COUNTRIES AROUND THE
WORLD.
MOST OF OUR IMPORTANT
ALLIES HAVE THESE.
IT ALLOWS A COMPANY THAT
HAS BEEN FOUND GUILTY OF
WRONG-DOING TO PAY FINES,
TO MAKE RESTITUTION, TO
FIX THEIR BEHAVIOURS, TAKE
RESPONSIBILITY FOR THEIR
BEHAVIOURS, ALONG WITH
SOME VERY SEVERE AND
WELL-ESTABLISHED CRITERIA.
THIS IS A MEASURE THAT
MANY OF OUR ALLIED
COUNTRIES HAVE THAT CANADA
DID NOT HAVE IN PLACE.
THIS WAS SOMETHING THAT
WELL BEFORE SNC-LAVALIN,
CANADIAN GOVERNMENTS HAVE
LOOKED AT AND HAVE
CONSIDERED.
IT WAS AN ELEMENT LACKING
WITHIN THE TOOLS WE HAVE
AT OUR DISPOSAL TO ENSURE
PROPER BEHAVIOUR BY
CORPORATIONS AND
OPPORTUNITIES FOR JOBS AND
GROWTH IN THE COUNTRY, AND
THAT IS WHY WE MOVE
FORWARD ON BRINGING IN
THESE AGREEMENTS.
[Speaking French]
>> Prime Minister Justin
Trudeau:
[Voice of interpreter]:
THE MEASURES THAT WE
INTRODUCED WERE MEASURES
THAT ARE FREQUENTLY USED
IN MANY, MANY COUNTRIES
AROUND THE WORLD, WHICH
WOULD ALLOW A COMPANY THAT
HAS MADE MISTAKES OR
VIOLATED THE LAW TO PAY A
PENALTY, CHANGE ITS
BEHAVIOUR, WITHOUT
AUTOMATICALLY IMPERILING
ALL OF THE EMPLOYEES OF
THAT COMPANY, WHICH ARE
NOT RESPONSIBLE FOR THE
MISTAKES MADE BY THE
MANAGEMENT OF THE COUNTRY.
THIS IS A MEASURE THAT
EXISTS IN MANY COUNTRIES,
AND FOR A NUMBER OF YEARS,
WELL BEFORE THIS ISSUE
AROSE, CANADA LOOKED AT
THE IDEA OF HAVING THIS
TOOL TO BE ABLE TO DEAL
WITH OUR COMPANIES.
[End of translation]
>> Reporter: BRITTANY
CARTER FROM THE LAKE
REPORT.
I WAS WONDERING WHAT YOUR
PLAN IS TO TRY TO BRING
THE RIDING TO THE
LIBERALS, LOCALLY
NIAGARA-HAMILTON.
>> Prime Minister Justin
Trudeau: I'M VERY EXCITED
TO BE BACK HERE ON THE
NIAGARA ON THE LAKE.
AND THE TWO M.P.s HAVE
BEEN DOING A GREAT JOB OF
REPRESENTING THIS WHOLE
REGION IN THE HOUSE OF
COMMONS.
AS YOU POINT OUT, IT WOULD
BE ABSOLUTELY WONDERFUL
FOR THE COMMUNITY OF
NIAGARA ON THE LAKE AND
NIAGARA FALLS TO BE
WELL-REPRESENTED BY A
STRONG LIBERAL
CANDIDATE.AND I VERY MUCH LOOK
FORWARD TO WORKING VERY
HARD OVER THE COMING WEEKS
AND MONTHS TO MAKE SURE
THAT THE RIDING OF NIAGARA
FALLS TURNS RED ON OCTOBER 21st.
[APPLAUSE]
>> Reporter: WHAT IS
YOUR PLAN TO, I GUESS,
MAKE THAT HAPPEN?
>> Prime Minister Justin
Trudeau: WHAT WE'RE
FOCUSING ON IS INVESTING
IN COMMUNITIES, WHETHER IT
IS INFRASTRUCTURE
ANNOUNCEMENTS, LIKE TODAY,
WHERE WE KNOW THAT IT IS
ESSENTIAL FOR GROWING
COMMUNITIES TO INVEST IN
WASTE WATER, INVEST IN
PUBLIC TRANSIT, INVEST IN
HOUSING, INVEST IN THE
KINDS OF NEEDS THAT
PARTICULARLY AREAS WHERE
THERE IS TREMENDOUS AMOUNT
OF TOURISM, AND THEY NEED
TO INFRASTRUCTURE TO BE
ABLE TO SUCCEED.
ON TOP OF THAT, WE KNOW
THAT CREATING JOBS,
CREATING OPPORTUNITIES FOR
CITIZENS, GOES WITH
INVESTING IN THOSE
CITIZENS THEMSELVES.
THE CANADA CHILD BENEFIT
HAS BENEFITED NINE OUT OF
10 CANADIAN FAMILIES RIGHT
ACROSS THE COUNTRY, AND
HAS LIFTED HUNDREDS OF
THOUSANDS OF KIDS OUT OF
POVERTY.
ON TOP OF THAT, AN AREA I
KNOW THAT IS VERY
IMPORTANT FOR THIS REGION,
WE HAVE SIGNED MAJOR TRADE
DEALS WITH ALL OF OUR
OTHER G-7 NATIONS,
INCLUDING, AND ESPECIALLY,
SECURING OUR TRADE WITH
THE UNITED STATES, OUR
MOST IMPORTANT PARTNER, AT
A TIME OF PROTECTIONISM
AND UNCERTAINTY IN THE
UNITED STATES.
THESE ARE THE KINDS OF
THINGS WE CAN DO WHEN WE
ALL WORK TOGETHER.
AND HAVING A STRONG VOICE
FOR NIAGARA ON THE LAKE
AND NIAGARA FALLS IS GOING
TO BE EXTREMELY IMPORTANT
TO MAKE SURE WE'RE
CONTINUING TO DELIVER FOR
THIS COMMUNITY AND
COMMUNITIES LIKE IT RIGHT
ACROSS THE COUNTRY.
>> Reporter: JUST
BRIEFLY, BACK TO
SNC-LAVALIN, LISA POLESKI
ON BEHALF OF GLOBAL NEWS.
CAN YOU SAY WHETHER D.P.A.
IS STILL ON THE TABLE?
>> Prime Minister Justin
Trudeau: THAT IS A
DECISION TO BE MADE BY THE
ATTORNEY-GENERAL AND
MINISTER OF JUSTICE, NOT A
DECISION FOR THE PRIME
MINISTER TO MAKE.
[Speaking French]
[Voice of interpreter]:
MR. TRUDEAU, THIS IS THE
SECOND TIME THAT THE
ETHICS COMMISSIONER HAS
CONCLUDED THAT YOU HAVE
VIOLATED THE LAW.
I THINK IT IS THE FIRST
TIME THIS HAS HAPPENED TO
A PRIME MINISTER.
HOW CAN CANADIANS HAVE
CONFIDENCE IN YOU AS PRIME
MINISTER?
>> Prime Minister Justin
Trudeau:
[Voice of interpreter]:
WELL, THE FACT IS THAT
BEING IN GOVERNMENT MEANS
MAKING DIFFICULT CHOICES.
AND WE WORKED VERY HARD,
BOTH TO DEFEND THE
INTEGRITY OF OUR JUDICIAL
SYSTEM, WHILE AT THE SAME
TIME DEFENDING THE
INTERESTS OF ALL CANADIANS
AND ALL CANADIAN WORKERS
WHO MIGHT BE AFFECTED BY
SUCH A DECISION.
OF COURSE, AS THE ETHICS
COMMISSIONER POINTED OUT,
WE DID NOT FIND THE RIGHT
BALANCE IN THAT SITUATION,
AND THAT'S WHY WE ARE
MOVING FORWARD BY CHANGING
OUR SYSTEM SO THAT WE CAN
ALWAYS DEFEND THE PUBLIC
INTERESTS WITHOUT THERE
BEING ANY VULNERABILITY
FOR THE ATTORNEY-GENERAL.
[End of translation]
>> Prime Minister Justin
Trudeau: I THINK ONE OF
THE THINGS -- LET ME PAUSE
AND RETRANSLATE IN MY
BRAIN.
I THINK WE RECOGNIZE THAT
WHAT WAS DONE OVER THE
PAST YEAR, AS WE TRIED TO
BOTH DEFEND JUDICIAL
INDEPENDENCE AND
PROSECUTORIAL INDEPENDENCE
AND STAND UP FOR CANADIAN
JOBS AND WORKERS, WASN'T
EXACTLY THE RIGHT WAY TO
DO THINGS.
AND WE THANK THE ETHICS
COMMISSIONER FOR THE HARD
WORK THAT HE DID IN
HIGHLIGHTING THAT.
BUT IT IS NOT ENOUGH TO
JUST RECOGNIZE THAT WE DID
IT THE WRONG WAY.
WE HAVE TO BE ABLE TO PUT
IN PLACE SOLUTIONS SO THIS
DOESN'T HAPPEN AGAIN BY
OUR GOVERNMENT OR ANY
OTHER GOVERNMENT.
WE NEED TO BE ABLE TO
STAND UP FOR JOBS AND THE
PUBLIC INTEREST IN A WAY
THAT DOESN'T, YOU KNOW, GO
AGAINST PROSECUTORIAL
INDEPENDENCE.
AND THAT'S WHERE THE
McLELLAN REPORT, WHICH
HAS BEEN RELEASED TODAY,
LAYS OUT VERY CLEAR STEPS
THAT WILL BE FOLLOWED TO
ENSURE THAT THIS KIND OF
CONFLICT NEVER HAPPENS
AGAIN, BY THIS GOVERNMENT
OR ANY FUTURE GOVERNMENT.
>> Reporter: THANK YOU
VERY MUCH.
>> Prime Minister Justin
Trudeau: THANK YOU ALL SO
MUCH FOR BEING HERE.
[APPLAUSE]
>> Andrew: AND THAT IS
PRIME MINISTER JUSTIN
TRUDEAU IN NIAGARA ON THE
LAKE IN ONTARIO, ANSWERING
QUESTIONS ALMOST
EXCLUSIVELY ON THE ETHICS
COMMISSIONER'S FINDINGS
THAT THE PRIME MINISTER
CONTRAVENED.
THIS IS THE AFFAIR WHERE
FORMER JUSTICE MINISTER,
JODY WILSON-RAYBOULD, SAID
THAT THE PRIME MINISTER
AND MEMBERS OF HIS STAFF
INAPPROPRIATELY PRESSURED
HER TO APPROVE A DEFERRED
PROSECUTION AGREEMENT FOR
SNC-LAVALIN, WHICH IS A
MONTREAL-HEADQUARTERED
ENGINEERING FIRM.
WE HEARD THE PRIME
MINISTER SAYING THERE THAT
I DISAGREE WITH SOME OF
THE CONCLUSIONS OF THE
REPORT, BUT I TAKE FULL
RESPONSIBILITY.
I DISAGREE THAT ANY
CONTACT WITH THE
ATTORNEY-GENERAL IS
IMPROPER.
MY JOB IS TO STAND UP FOR
CANADIANS AND THEIR
INTERESTS, AND HE SAID, I
RECOGNIZE THAT THERE ARE
LESSONS TO BE LEARNED, AND
THIS SHOULD NOT HAVE
HAPPENED THE WAY IT
HAPPENED.
HE WAS ASKED WHETHER HE
WAS GOING TO RESIGN OR
APOLOGIZE.
IT SHOULDN'T HAVE HAPPENED
THE WAY THAT IT HAPPENED,
THAT HE TAKES
RESPONSIBILITY FOR THE
MISTAKES.
"I WAS DOING WHAT I FELT
WAS THE RESPONSIBILITY OF
THE PRIME MINISTER TO
DEFEND THE PUBLIC
INTERESTS."
AGAIN, REPEATING "IT
DIDN'T HAPPEN THE WAY IT
SHOULD."
WOULD HE FIRE SOME OF
THOSE PEOPLE IN HIS
OFFICE, ELDER MARKQUEZ?
AND HE SAYS, "THE BUCK
STOPS WITH THE PRIME
MINISTER.
I TAKE FULL RESPONSIBILITY
FOR WHAT HAPPENED IN MY
OFFICE."
AND HE WAS ASKED AGAIN,
WOULD YOU FIRE SOME OF THE
PEOPLE INVOLVED, INCLUDING
HIS FORMER PRINCIPLE
SECRETARY, GERALD BUTTS,
WHO IS BEING BROUGHT BACK
ON TO THE CAMPAIGN?
AND HE SAID CANADIANS WILL
HAVE A CHOICE ON
OCTOBER 21st.
AND ALSO ASKED WHETHER OR
NOT A DEFERRED PROSECUTION
AGREEMENT FOR SNC-LAVALIN
IS STILL ON THE TABLE?
AND HE SAID THAT IS NOT A
DECISION FOR THE PRIME
MINISTER TO BE MADE.
IT IS THE DECISION FOR THE
MINISTER OF JUSTICE AND
THE ATTORNEY-GENERAL,
DAVID LAMETTI, WHO HAS
REPLACED JODY
WILSON-RAYBOULD.
LET'S BRING IN THE CBC'S
"POWER AND POLITICS" HOST
VASSY KAPELOS.
WHAT DO WE MAKE OF WHAT
THE MINISTER HAD TO SAY.
>> Reporter: WE WERE
TALKING ABOUT WHETHER HE
WOULD UNEQUIVOCALLY COME
OUT AND SAY, I WAS WRONG
AND I APOLOGIZE.
THAT DID NOT HAPPEN.
ESSENTIALLY THE LINE
WAS -- LET ME PULL IT UP:
"EVEN THOUGH I DISAGREE
WITH SOME OF THE
CONCLUSIONS, I FULLY
ACCEPT THE REPORT AND TAKE
RESPONSIBILITY FOR WHAT
HAPPENED."
THEN HE WENT ON TO TALK
ABOUT WHAT HAPPENED
SHOULDN'T HAVE HAPPENED,
AND THAT'S WHY THEY HAVE
THE McLELLAN REPORT.
AND THE McLELLAN REPORT
SPECIFICALLY IS TO DO WITH
THE IDEA OF SEPARATING THE
ATTORNEY-GENERAL FROM THE
JUSTICE MINISTER.
MY INTERPRETATION OF WHAT
THE PRIME MINISTER WAS
SAYING WAS THAT THE ROLES
WERE CONFUSED, AND THAT'S
WHY THINGS UNFOLDED THE
WAY THEY D-AND THEY THEY DID, AY
SHOULDN'T HAVE.
BUT HE WASN'T TAKING A LOT
OF PERSONAL
RESPONSIBILITY, I DIDN'T
LIVE UP TO THE ETHICAL
STANDARDS OR MY STAFF
DIDN'T LIVE UP TO THE
ETHICAL STANDARDS.
THE ETHICS COMMISSIONER
LAYS OUT FOUR STANCES IN
WHICH HE SAYS THERE WAS
OVERREACH, AND HE FELT
THAT THE PRIME MINISTER
WAS DIRECTING HIS STAFF TO
TAKE THOSE ACTIONS.
HE SORT OF GLOSSED OVER IT
AND DECIDED THAT WHAT HE
WOULD APOLOGIZE FOR OR
WHAT HE WOULD ACKNOWLEDGE
MISTAKES AS THEY PERTAINED
TO HIM, WAS, INSTEAD, THIS
IDEA THAT THE TWO ROLES
WERE CONFLICTED OR
CONFUSED AND THAT LED TO A
LOT OF THE SORT OF
NEGATIVE CONSEQUENSES OR
CONCLUSIONS FROM THIS
WHOLE CONTROVERSY.
THERE WAS NO BARE-BONED I
APOLOGIZE, I WAS WRONG.
INSTEAD, A CONTINUED
INSISTENCE HE WAS
DEFENDING THE PUBLIC
INTEREST, HE WAS LOOKING
OUT FOR THOSE POTENTIAL
JOBS.
HE SAID HE DISAGREED WITH
THE CONCLUSION THAT THE
ETHICSCOMMISSIONER DREW ON THAT.
"THE REMADEIATION
AGREEMENT REGIME MAKES IT
CLEAR THAT ONLY THE
PROSECUTOR MUST WEIGH OR
EXCLUDE THESE FINDINGS."
THE ETHICS COMMISSIONER IS
SAYING THAT THE PRIME
MINISTER SHOULD NEVER HAVE
BROUGHT THOSE
CONSIDERATIONS TO THE
ATTORNEY-GENERAL.
THE DECISION WAS SUPPOSED
TO BE MADE BY THE DIRECTOR
OF THE PROSECUTIONS, THAT
THE PRIME MINISTER SHOULD
NEVER HAVE GONE AND SAID,
HEY, THESE ARE A BUNCH OF
OTHER THINGS YOU SHOULD BE
CONSIDERING WHERE A D.P.A.
IS CONCERNED, AND THAT IS
WHAT THE PRIME MINISTER
SAYS HE DISAGREES WITH IN
THIS REPORT.
>> Andrew: FINALLY,
VASSY, THAT IS A KEY, HE
SAID, I DISAGREE THAT ANY
CONTACT WITH THE A.G. IS
IMPROPER.
DOES THE ETHICS
COMMISSIONER SAY THERE
SHOULD BE NO CONTACT
WHATSOEVER?
>> Reporter: BASICALLY
THE PARAGRAPH IN WHICH
THAT LINE I READ OUT COMES
IS AFTER HE GOES OVER THE
ARGUMENTS THAT THE PRIME
MINISTER'S OFFICE HAS
MADE, AND THOSE ARE
PRIMARILY AROUND THE FACT
THAT -- AND THEY HAVE SAID
THIS PUBLICLY -- THEY
WANTED TO DO WHAT THEY
COULD TO SAVE THE
POTENTIAL JOBS THAT COULD
BE LOST AS A CONSEQUENCE
OF WHAT SNC-LAVALIN WOULD
FACE IF THEY WERE
CONVICTED OF THE CRIMINAL
ALLEGATIONS OR THE CHARGES
THAT THEY FACE.
AND HE SAYS, "IN MY VIEW,
IT REMAINS UNCLEAR WHETHER
THESE FACTORS ARE TRULY
NATIONAL ECONOMIC
INTERESTS WHICH MUST BE
EXCLUDED FROM
CONSIDERATION OR ARE
LEGITIMATE FACTORS THAT
HAVE TO BE WEIGHED."
REGARDLESS OF HOW SUCH
INTERESTS ARE CLASSIFIED,
THE LARGER PUBLIC
CONSIDERATIONS ARE INEX
INEXTRICABLY LINKED.
AND THEN THIS GOES ON TO
SAY THAT SHOULD BE LEFT TO
THE PROSECUTOR.
WHAT THE ETHICS
COMMISSIONER HERE IS
SAYING IS REGARDLESS OF
WHETHER THIS SHOULD HAVE
BEEN CONSIDERED OR
SHOULDN'T HAVE BEEN
CONSIDERED, BECAUSE ANY
CONSIDERATIONS OF HOW THIS
AFFECTS THE PUBLIC WOULD
BE LINKED TO THE PRIVATE
INTERESTS OF SNC-LAVALIN,
THE PRIME MINISTER SHOULD
NOT HAVE COMMUNICATED WITH
THE ATTORNEY-GENERAL.
THAT IS MY INTERPRETATION
OF WHAT THE ETHICS
COMMISSIONER LAYS OUT.
AS I SAID, WE HAVE HEARD
FROM SOME LAWYERS WHO HAVE
A DIFFERENT
INTERPRETATION, AND WE'LL
BE TALKING TO THEM LATER
ON.
OBVIOUSLY, THE PRIME
MINISTER DISAGREES WITH
THAT VERY CENTRAL FINDING.
EVEN THE PRIME MINISTER
DEFENDING HIMSELF AND
SAYING, EVEN IF YOU
DISAGREE WITH THAT, THE
ETHICS COMMISSIONER GOES
ON TO LAY OUT THE SORT OF
POLITICAL CONSIDERATIONS
PUT FORWARD BY THE PRIME
MINISTER AND BY MEMBERS OF
HIS STAFF, AND THAT IS
CONSIDERED EVEN
SEPARATELY.
AND HE COMES TO SOME
PRETTY DAMMING CONCLUSIONS
ON THAT END AS WELL.
SO THERE IS SOME WIGGLE
ROOM FOR INTERPRETATION, I
UNDERSTAND THAT, BUT THERE
IS ALSO A LOT LAID OUT
HERE THAT GOES OVER
ETHICAL VIOLATIONS
ACCORDING TO THE ETHICS
COMMISSIONER, THAT WEREN'T
REALLY ADDRESSED IN THIS
PRESS CONFERENCE BY THE
PRIME MINISTER.
>> Andrew: THANK YOU,
VASSY.
THAT IS VASSY KAPELOS, THE
HOST OF "POWER AND
POLITICS".
>>> OPPOSITION LEADER
ANDREW SCHEER HAS ACCUSED
THE PRIME MINISTER TO
REWARD PEOPLE AND PUNISH
CRITICS.
HE SPOKE ON THE
COMMISSIONER'S FINDING
EARLIER FROM REGINA.
>> THIS ONE IS
UNFORGIVABLE.
THE COMPANY, WHO HAD GIVEN
$100,000 DONATION TO THE
LIBERAL PARTY IS ON ITS
OWN CHARGED WITH
DEFRAUDING SOME OF THE
POOREST PEOPLE ON EARTH OF
OVER $100 MILLION.
WHAT WE HAVE NOW IS A
CLEAR PICTURE OF WHO
JUSTIN TRUDEAU TRULY S-AND
IT IS NOT WHO HE PROMISED
HE WOULD BE.
TIME AND TIME AGAIN, HE
HAS USED THE POWER OF HIS
OFFICE TO ENRICH HIMSELF,
REWARD HIS FRIENDS, AND
PUNISH HIS CRITICS.
AS THE ETHICS COMMISSIONER
NOTES IN HIS REPORT,
QUOTE, "THE AUTHORITY OF
THE PRIME MINISTER AND HIS
OFFICE WAS USED TO
CIRCUMVENT, UNDERMINED AND
ULTIMATELY DISCREDIT JODY
WILSON-RAYBOULD."
>> Andrew: AND THAT WAS
ANDREW SCHEER REACTING
EARLIER.
JOINING ME NOW FROM OTTAWA
IS JANYCE McGREGORMENT
JANYCE McGREGOR.WHAT SHOULD WE ,
JANYCE, OF WHAT WE'VE
HEARD.
>> Reporter: ANDREW
SCHEER LAYING THE GROUND
WORK FOR WHY HE HOPES
CANADIANS WILL TAKE FROM
THIS THAT THEY CANNOT
RE-ELECT PRIME MINISTER
JUSTIN TRUDEAU'S LIBERAL
GOVERNMENT THIS FALL.
TRYING TO EXPLAIN TO
PEOPLE WHY IN THIS VIEW
THIS AMOUNTS TO A GUILTY
VERDICT ON THEIR CONDUCT
IN THIS AFFAIR.
AND INTERESTING, YOU KNOW,
HE WAS ASKED WHETHER HE
BELIEVES THAT THERE IS
ENOUGH HERE FOR AN
OBSTRUCTION OF JUSTICE
CASE, AS PERTAINS TO THEIR
INTERACTIONS WITH
SNC-LAVALIN, AND WHAT THEY
WERE ALLEGEDLY TRYING TO
DO.
IN TERMS OF INFLUENCING
THE EVENTUAL CRIMINAL
PROSECUTION OF THIS
COMPANY.
AND SCHEER TODAY SAID,
YES, HE DOES THINK IN THIS
REPORT THERE IS ENOUGH
EVIDENCE OF THAT.
I WANT TO SAY, THOUGH, AS
I'VE KEPT READING THIS
REPORT, I'VE BEEN TRYING
TO SEE KIND OF WHAT POINTS
SCHEER WOULD HAVE FOUND
THAT WOULD HAVE LED HIM TO
CONCLUDE THAT.
THERE IS AN INTERESTING
PARAGRAPH NEAR THE END,
SORT OF WHEN MR. DION IS
WRAPPING UP AND MAKING HIS
MAIN ARGUMENTS.
I THINK IT IS IMPORTANT TO
NOTE -- IT SAYS -- THIS IS
DION WRITING: "THE FACT
THAT MS. JODY
WILSON-RAYBOULD WAS NOT
DIRECTED TO INTERVENE
LIKELY PREVENTED THE
OCCURRENCE OF ACTUAL
POLITICAL INTERFERENCE IN
THE MATTER, BUT IT DOES
LITTLE TO ASSIST
MR. TRUDEAU IN THIS
EXAMINATION, WHICH, OF
COURSE, IS NOT A CRIMINAL
EXAMINATION BUT AN ETHICAL
ONE."
AND TO HAVE THE
ATTORNEY-GENERAL FIND A
SOLUTION, EVEN IN THE FACE
OF HER REFUSAL TO
INTERVENE IN THIS MATTER,
LEAVING THEM TO CONCLUDE
THAT THESE ACTIONS WERE
TANTAMOUNT TO POLITICAL
DIRECTION.
SO WHETHER THIS IS
ULTIMATELY A MATTER OF
CRIMINAL OBSTRUCTION OF
JUSTICE OR WHETHER IT IS
SOMETHING THAT IS GOING TO
PLAY OUT IN THE COURT OF
PUBLIC OPINION, WHICH IS
VERY MUCH MR. SCHEER'S
POINT TODAY, EITHER WAY
CANADIANS HAVE TO CONSIDER
THESE NEW THINGS BROUGHT
FORWARD TODAY AND MAKE
THEIR CHOICE.
NOW, N.D.P. LEADER JAGMEET
SINGH WAS ON THE WEST
COAST TODAY, AND HE
REACTED QUITE A BIT
EARLIER TO WHAT THE REPORT
WAS SAYING.
LET'S TAKE A LISTEN.
>> WHETHER WE HAVE THE
CONSERVATIVES OR LIBERALS
IN POWER, BOTH OF THEM
SEEM TO HAVE THIS TRACK
RECORD WHERE THEY DON'T
GET THAT THEIR JOB IS TO
WORK FOR THE PEOPLE, NOT
FOR THE PEOPLE AT THE VERY
TOP.
AND THEY'RE NOT WORKING
FOR THE BENEFIT OF EVERY,
EVERYDAY FAMILIES.
>> Reporter: HE WANTED
CANADIANS TO KNOW IF
THEY'RE NOT HAPPY WITH THE
LIBERALS' CONDUCT, THEY
HAVE ANOTHER CHOICE, THAT
BEING HIS GOVERNMENT.
AND IMPORTANT TO NOTE, YOU
HEARD HIM SORT OF TRYING
TO PORTRAY THE LIBERAL
GOVERNMENT AS COZY WITH
THIS CORPORATION.
THIS REPORT GOES THROUGH
AND EMPHASIZES THAT THERE
WERE FINANCIAL
CONSIDERATIONS FOR
SNC-LAVALIN IN THIS AND
THEN DOCUMENTS HOW THERE
WERE REPEATED
INTERACTIONING WITH SENIOR
STAFF, WITH LAWYERS AND
KEY PERSONNEL, AT THE SAME
TIME THEY WERE HAVE
CONVERSATIONS WITH JODY
WILSON-RAYBOULD AND HER
STAFF, TRYING TO FIGURE
OUT WHY THEY WERE
DETERMINED NOT TO
INTERVENE IN THIS CASE.
I THINK ULTIMATELY, AT THE
END OF THE DAY, THAT IS
KIND OF THE MOST DAMAGING
IMPRESSION YOU TAKE AWAY
FROM THIS REPORT, THAT ON
THE ONE HAND THEY'RE
SAYING WE DIDN'T WANT TO
INTERFERE; ON THE OTHER
HAND, THEY'RE STILL VERY
MUCH ENGAGED IN THIS
COMPANY AND HEARING THIS
COMPANY'S ARGUMENTS ABOUT
WHAT IT WANTS THE
GOVERNMENT TO DO.
>> Andrew: AND THEN,
JANYCE, WE HAVE ANNE
McLELLAN, THE FORMER
JUSTICE MINISTER, WHO WAS
TASKED WITH TRYING TO
FIGURE OUT WHETHER THOSE
TWO ROLES, THE
ATTORNEY-GENERAL AND
JUSTICE MINISTER, SHOULD
BE SEPARATED.
IT SHOULDN'T JUST BE ONE
PERSON.
AND THAT REPORT CAME OUT
TO THE PUBLIC AT LEAST
TODAY, AND THE PRIME
MINISTER WAS ASKED ABOUT
THAT.
>> Reporter: YEAH.
LOTS OF READING FOR
EVERYONE THIS AFTERNOON.
SPEED-READING, THAT'S WHAT
WE DO HERE IN OTTAWA.
I WAS HAVING FLASHBACKS TO
THE PRIME MINISTER'S NEWS
CONFERENCE LAST SPRING
WHEN HE FIRST KIND OF
PROPOSED THAT McLELLAN
WAS GOING TO LOOK INTO
THIS ISSUE.
THE CONFERENCE WAS VERY
MUCH ABOUT TREATING THIS
AS A LEARNING OPPORTUNITY.
WE'RE GOING TO TAKE A LOOK
AT THIS, WE'RE GOING TO
EXAMINE THE OPPORTUNITIES
FOR EDUCATION TO FIGURE
OUT WHAT WENT WRONG.
THAT WAS STILL THE MESSAGE
TRACK WE HEARD FROM JUSTIN
TRUDEAU THIS AFTERNOON ON
NIAGARA ON THE LAKE.
IT WAS TAKING
RESPONSIBILITY, YES, BUT
TRYING TO FRAME THIS AS WE
CAN DO BETTER, WE CAN
LEARN FROM THIS.
McLELLAN NOT
RECOMMENDING THAT THE TWO
ROLES, ATTORNEY-GENERAL
AND MINISTER OF JUSTICE,
BE SPLIT, SAYING SHE
DOESN'T SEE FURTHER
STRUCTURAL CHANGE BEING
NECESSARY, BUT SHE IS
FRAMING WHAT NEEDS TO BE
DONE VERY MUCH IN TERMS OF
EDUCATION, CLARIFICATION,
SO THAT SENIOR STAFF KNOW
MORE OF WHAT IS
APPROPRIATE AND WHAT ISN'T
IN TERMS OF INTERFERENCE
IN PROSECUTIONS.
AND ALSO RECOMMENDING
CHANGING THE NAME OF THE
DEPARTMENT TO MAKE IT
CLEAR THAT THE
ATTORNEY-GENERAL IS RIGHT
UP THERE FRONT AND CENTRE,
RECOMMENDING THAT THE OATH
OF OFFICE FOR THIS JOB BE
CHANGED.
BUT I THINK THE MOST
IMPORTANT THING THAT SHE
IS POINTING OUT IS THAT IN
HER VIEW, IT SHOULD BE
CLEAR THAT THE
ATTORNEY-GENERAL MAY ISSUE
DIRECTIVES OR TAKE OVER
PROSECUTION ON
PUBLIC-INTEREST GROUNDS,
OR BECAUSE THERE IS NO
REASONABLE PROSPECT OF
CONVICTION.
THIS, I THINK, IS REALLY
KEY BECAUSE HERE IS
McLELLAN SAYING, LOOK,
THE ATTORNEY-GENERAL NEEDS
TO KNOW THAT IT IS OKAY
FOR HIM OR HER TO GET
INVOLVED IN A CASE WHEN
THERE IS A PUBLIC-INTEREST
ARGUMENT TO BE MADE.
THAT IS EXACTLY WHAT
TRUDEAU AND HIS PEOPLE ARE
SAYING HERE, THAT JODY
WILSON-RAYBOULD SHOULD
HAVE GOTTEN INVOLVED
BECAUSE THERE WAS A
PUBLIC-INTEREST ISSUE AT
PLAY IN THIS PROSECUTION.
JODY WILSON-RAYBOULD FELT
OTHERWISE, THAT TO DO
ANYTHING WOULD BE
INAPPROPRIATE.
McLELLAN IN THIS ASPECT
DEFINITELY SIDING WITH THE
GOVERNMENT.
>> Andrew: JANYCE, THANK
YOU.
THAT IS THE CBC'S JANYCE
McGREGOR LIVE IN OTTAWA.
>>> WE'RE GOING TO BRING
BACK OUR PANEL.
MY NEXT GUESTS, WHO HAVE
BEEN HERE THROUGHOUT THIS
AFTERNOON AND WHO HAVE
BEEN WATCHING WITH
INTEREST, OMAR KHAN, VICE
PRESIDENT OF PUBLIC
AFFAIRS AT HELM AND
NOLTON, AND HE PREVIOUSLY
SERVED AS CHIEF-OF-STAFF
IN SEVERAL OFFICES, AND
PIERRE CHAMBERS,
PREVIOUSLY HE HELPED CRAFT
THE ONTARIO P.C. PLATFORM
DURING THE DOUG FORD
CAMPAIGN, AND, OF COURSE,
OUR HANNAH THIBADEAU.
OMAR, WHAT IS YOUR
REACTION TO WHAT THE PRIME
MINISTER HAD TO SAY WITH
REGARD TO THIS ETHICS
COMMISSIONER'S REPORT?
>> I THINK HE STATED
AGAIN, AS HE DID BEFORE,
THAT CLEARLY SOMETHING
WENT OFF THE RAILS HERE.
THINGS COULD HAVE BEEN
DONE DIFFERENTLY, AND THEY
SHOULD HAVE BEEN DONE
DIFFERENTLY.
BUT, MY GOSH, MY HEAD IS
HURTING FROM ALL OF THE
LEGAL ARGUMENTS BACK AND
FORTH.
I WORKED IN GOVERNMENT FOR
10 YEARS, INCLUDING FOR AN
ATTORNEY-GENERAL.
CAN YOU JUST IMAGINE THE
GENERAL PUBLIC OUT THERE?
IT IS REALLY IMPORTANT TO
TAKE A LOOK AT ANNE
McLELLAN'S REPORT.
THERE NEEDS TO BE A CLEAR
DIFFERENTIATION BETWEEN
THE TWO RULES.
WE ALL HAVE OPINIONS ON
THAT.
MY GOSH, CAN YOU IMAGINE
IN THE HEAT OF THE MOMENT,
WHEN YOU'RE TRYING TO MAKE
DECISIONS THAT HAVE AN
IMPACT ON POTENTIALLY
THOUSANDS OF PEOPLE'S
LIVELIHOODS, IT IS VERY
CONFUSING.
AND IT'S -- WHAT APPEARS
TO ME THAT HAS HAPPENED
HERE, THERE HAS BEEN A
LOT -- THAT THERE WAS
CONFUSION ON THE ROLE OF
THE ATTORNEY-GENERAL, THAT
SPECIFIC NON-POLITICAL
ROLE, VERSUS THE OTHER
ROLE THAT JODY
WILSON-RAYBOULD HELD,
WHICH IS AS A POLITICAL
CABINET MINISTER, THE
MINISTER OF JUSTICE.
IT WAS CONFUSING.
THESE PEOPLE PERHAPS
SHOULD HAVE HAD BETTER
CLARITY AND UNDERSTANDING
AROUND WHERE ONE ROLE ENDS
AND OTHER BEGINS.
I THINK MS. McLELLAN HAS
GIVEN A DECENT ROADMAP ON
SOME WAYS TO MOVE FORWARD
TO ADDRESS THAT.
>> WHAT DID YOU THINK OF
THE PRIME MINISTER'S
RESPONSE TO THIS?
HE SAID THE BUCK STOPS
WITH HIM.
IT DIDN'T SEEM LIKE HE WAS
GOING TO GET RID OF THE
STAFF WHO WERE NAMED IN
THIS REPORT AS WELL, BUT,
ALSO, HE WOULDN'T
APOLOGIZE.
DO YOU THINK IT'S ENOUGH?
BECAUSE HE SAID HE WAS
TRYING TO PROTECT JOBS.
>> WHAT I DON'T UNDERSTAND
IS THAT THE PRIME MINISTER
TAKES RESPONSIBILITY, HE
KNOWS HE MADE A MISTAKE,
HE KNOWS HE CAN DO THINGS
DIFFERENTLY.
IF THAT'S THE CASE,
APOLOGIZE FOR YOUR
WRONG-DOINGS AND MOVE
FORWARD AND DO THINGS
DIFFERENTLY.
HE IS NOT GOING TO FIRE
ANY STAFF, I UNDERSTAND
THAT, BUT COME
OCTOBER 21st, I THINK
CANADIANS WILL FIRE HIM
FOR HIS BEHAVIOUR.
I THINK THERE WILL BE A
CHOICE TO BE MADE, AS HE
MADE OUT VERY CLEARLY, AND
THE ELECTION IS COMING.
THERE IS A CHOICE BETWEEN
ANDREW SCHEER AND JUSTIN
TRUDEAU, AND WE'LL SEE
WHAT HAPPENS ON
OCTOBER 21st.
I THINK THE PRIME MINISTER
NEEDS TO ACKNOWLEDGE HE
DID JODY WILSON-RAYBOULD
WRONG, THERE IS GREAT
POLITICAL DAMAGE DONE TO
HER.
GREAT CONSEQUENSES DONE TO
HER.
I THINK HE NEEDS TO
ACKNOWLEDGE THAT AND SAY
HE IS SORRY TO HER AND TO
CANADIANS.
>> WE KNOW THAT JODY
WILSON-RAYBOULD AND JANE
PHILPOTT, THEY'RE NO
LONGER CABINET MINISTERS,
THEY'RE NO LONGER IN THE
LIBERAL CAUCUS.
DO YOU THINK THAT IS FAIR?
>> YEAH, WELL, THE REASON
THEY WERE KICKED OUT OF
THE LIBERAL CAUCUS THROUGH
A VOTE OF THE LIBERAL
CAUCUS IS BECAUSE THEY
WERE DIVULGEING --
>> IT WASN'T A VOTE.
THE PRIME MINISTER HAD
SPOKEN TO THE DIFFERENT
REGIONS --
>> THERE WAS A COLLECTIVE
DECISION MADE AT CAUCUS.
WE CAN GO BACK AND READ --
>> WE CAN.
>> IT WAS BECAUSE THEY
WERE DIE VULING CAUCUS
CONFIDENCES.
THERE IS ONLY GOING TO BE
TWO PEOPLE ON THE BALLOT
WHO HAVE THE OPPORTUNITY
TO BECOME THE PRIME
MINISTER OF THIS COUNTRY,
AND THAT'S ANDREW SCHEER
OR JUSTIN TRUDEAU.
WHAT THE PRIME MINISTER
SAID BEFORE, OF COURSE,
EVERYONE IS HUMAN, PEOPLE
MAKE MISTAKES, BUT
ULTIMATELY IT COMES DOWN
TO DIFFERENT VISIONS.
THERE IS ONE VISION THAT
FOCUSES ON LIFTING
HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS OF
PEOPLE OUT OF POVERTY AND
INTO THE MIDDLE CLASS.
THERE IS A POSITION OF
FIGHTING GLOBAL CLIMATE
CHANGE.
AND THERE IS ANOTHER
VISION THAT WANTS TO TAKE
US BACK TO STEVEN HARPER.
THE VALUES OF THAT
GOVERNMENT WERE SOUNDLY
REJECTED COAST TO COAST IN
THE LAST ELECTION.
>> Andrew: AND THERE IS
NO QUESTION WE'LL BE
TALKING ABOUT THOSE
IMPORTANT ISSUES TODAY.
THE NEWS IS THERE WAS THIS
BIG SCANDAL, RIGHT, THAT
WENT ON FOR A COUPLE OF
MONTHS, AND MAYBE
CANADIANS IS MADE THEIR
OWN DETERMINATIONS ABOUT
THAT, OR MAYBE THIS WILL
CHANGE THEIR MINDS.
WE'LL WAIT AND SEE.
BUT IS THE DIFFERENCE HERE
THAT UP UNTIL NOW, AN
INDEPENDENT COMMISSIONER
HAD NOT RULED ON WHETHER
OR NOT THE PRIME MINISTER
BROKE THE LAW.
TODAY THE ETHICS
COMMISSIONER DID, AND SAID
THE PRIME MINISTER DID
BREAK THE LAW.
THERE WAS A CONFLICT OF
INTEREST CONTRAVENTION
THAT TOOK PLACE.
WERE YOU SURPRISED AT HOW
HE REACTED TODAY?
BECAUSE IT SOUNDED QUITE
SIMILAR TO HOW HE REACTED
MONTHS AGO?
>> I WASN'T SURPRISED BY
THE PRIME MINISTER'S
REACTION.
THIS IS TYPICAL OF
MR. TRUDEAU.
HE IS NEVER GOING TO ADMIT
HIS WRONG-DOINGS OR SAY HE
IS SORRY FOR HIS ACTIONS.
HE SAID THEY'RE NOT GOING
TO MAKE THE SAME MISTAKES
AGAIN.
AT THE CORE OF THIS ISSUE
IS HE VIOLATED ETHICS
RULES.
THIS IS THE SECOND TIME HE
HAS DONE THIS.
SO SAYING YOU'RE NOT GOING
TO MAKE THE SAME MISTAKES
AGAIN IS FALLING ON DEAF
EARS.
PRIME MINISTER JUSTIN
TRUDEAU IS GOING TO MAKE
PROMISES AND NOT DELIVER
ON HIS PROMISES.
HE CAMPAIGNED ON BEING
TRANSPARENT AND BEING
ETHICAL.
AND SAID ON THE MATTER OF
CABINET CONFIDENCE, HE
DIDN'T WANT TO REVEAL TOO
MUCH BECAUSE THE PEOPLE
INVOLVED IN THIS ARE LESS
RELEVANT ACTORS.
IF THAT IS THE CASE, WHY
NOT ALLOW THE COMMISSIONER
TO INVESTIGATE AND DO HIS
JOB?
WHAT IS THERE TO HIDE?
>> Andrew: OMAR, WHAT
ABOUT THIS POINT, THIS IS
THE FIRST PRIME MINISTER
NOT ONCE, BUT TWICE, HAS
BEEN FOUND TO CONTRAVENE
THESE ETHICS BREACHES.
CANADIANS ARE GOING TO
SAY, WAIT A MINUTE, CAN WE
TRUST YOU?
CAN WE TRUST YOU TO LEAD
THE COUNTRY IF YOU'RE
BREAKING THE RULES?
>> WELL, I THINK EVERYBODY
MAKES MISTAKES AND
EVERYBODY IS HUMAN.
I THINK CANADIANS WILL
JUDGE THE PRIME MINISTER
AND OTHER POLITICAL
LEADERS ON HOW THEY REACT
AND HOW THEY MOVE FORWARD
FROM THESE ISSUES.
GOING BACK TO PROMISES
KEPT AND PROMISES MADE,
THE FIRST THING, ONE OF
THE FIRST THINGS THIS DID
WAS IMPLEMENT AN ELECTION
PROMISE THAT CALLED FOR
RAISING TAXES ON THE 1%,
SLIGHTLY, SO THAT
EVERYBODY ELSE COULD PAY A
LOT LESS.
AND, YOU KNOW, I THINK
JUXTAPOSING THAT VISION
THAT IS FOCUSED ON
BENEFITING THE MIDDLE
CLASS OF THIS COUNTRY,
VERSUS WHAT WE'RE SEEING
FROM OTHER PROVINCIAL
GOVERNMENTS ACROSS THIS
COUNTRY, CUTS TO EDUCATION
SERVICES -- IT WILL BE A
FAIRLY CLEAR CHOICE FOR
CANADIANS ON ELECTION DAY.
>> THE COURT ISSUE IS HE
WAS FOUND IN VIOLATION OF
THE ETHICS RULES.
HE IS THE FIRST PRIME
MINISTER TO BE FOUND IN
VIOLATION TWICE -- IN FOUR
YEARS.
THERE IS SOMETHING TO BE
SAID ABOUT THAT.
>> FOR SURE.
IT IS ABSOLUTELY NOT AN
IDEAL SITUATION.
I'M NOT GOING TO TRY TO
SUGAR COAT IT.
BUT FOR ME, AND I'M A FIRM
BELIEVER THAT EVERYONE
UNDERSTANDS THAT EVERYONE
IS HUMAN.
AND PEOPLE MAKE MISTAKES.
IT'S HOW YOU REACT AND
MOVE ON FROM THOSE
MISTAKES, AND WHAT CHANGES
DO YOU IMPLEMENT TO MAKE
SURE THOSE MISTAKES DON'T
HAPPEN AGAIN.
>> HE CAN START WITH AN
APOLOGY.
HE CAN SAY HE IS WRONG AND
HE APOLOGIZES --
>> I THINK WHAT HE SAID IS
QUITE CLEAR, THAT THINGS
SHOULD HAVE BEEN
DIFFERENT, AND HE WILL
MAKE THE CHANGES TO MAKE
SURE THIS DOESN'T HAPPEN
AGAIN.
>> Andrew: HE DIDN'T
APOLOGIZE.
HE SAID, I CAN'T APOLOGIZE
FOR STANDING UP FOR
CANADIANS' JOBS.
>> THE NUMBER ONE JOB
DESCRIPTION OF ANY MEMBER
OF PARLIAMENT IS TO FIGHT
FOR JOBS IN YOUR
COMMUNITY.
THAT IS NOT SOMETHING I
PERSONALLY WOULD EVER
APOLOGIZE MYSELF EITHER
FOR.
>> Reporter: SHAQIR,
WE'RE 10 WEEKS UNTIL
ELECTION DAY, HOW BIG A
FOCUS DO YOU THINK THE
CONSERVATIVES WILL
MAINTAIN ON THIS
SNC-LAVALIN ETHICS BREACH?
>> I THINK IT WILL BE A
FOCUS ON THE CAMPAIGN.
BECAUSE IT IS A BROADER
NARRATIVE, CAN YOU TRUST
JUSTIN TRUDEAU?
CAN YOU TRUST HIM TO
DELIVER ON HIS CAMPAIGN
PROMISES?
AND I THINK THE ANSWER IS
NO.
THIS IS THE SECOND TIME OF
ETHICS VIOLATIONS, AND
THEY NEED TO UNDERSTAND HE
IS CAMPAIGNING ON ETHICS,
ON ACCOUNTABILITY,
CAMPAIGNING ON
TRANSPARENCY, BUT HE HAS
SHOWN HE WON'T DELIVER.
I THINK CANADIANS NOW ARE
REALIZING THAT --
>> THE FIRST THING HE DID
WAS DELIVER IT ACROSS THE
BOARD --
>> BUT HE ALSO CAMPAIGNED
ON ELECTORAL REFORM, AND
HE --
>> WE CAN GET INTO THE
NUANCES OF WHETHER OR
NOT --
>> WELL --
>> WE CAN GET INTO --
WELL, EVERY PARTY RUNS ON
A PLATFORM, AND YOU DO
YOUR BEST TO IMPLEMENT THE
CORE ELEMENTS OF THAT
PLATFORM.
AND THE FIRST THING THIS
GOVERNMENT DID WAS RAISE
TAXES ON THE 1%, JUST A
LITTLE BIT, SO EVERYONE
ELSE, YOU AND I AND
EVERYONE ON THIS TABLE,
CAN PAY A LOT LESS.
THAT'S ONE OF THE THINGS
CANADIANS ARE GOING TO
JUDGE HIM ON AND --
>> OMAR, WHEN YOU LOOK AT
THE POLLS BACK IN APRIL
WHEN THE SCANDAL FIRST
HIT, EVERY TIME IT WAS
SPOKEN ABOUT, YOU COULD
SEE THAT THE LIBERALS WERE
BLEEDING NUMBERS.
YOU'RE 10WEEKS TO ELECTION
DAY, HOW DOES THE LIBERAL
PARTY ENSURE THAT THOSE
NUMBERS DON'T GO DOWN
AGAIN?
>> AS I SAID EARLIER, I
SUSPECT A LOT OF THIS IS
BAKED INTO THE ELECTORAL
CALCULUS NOW THAT
CANADIANS HAVE MADE IN
THEIR MINDS.
I WAS ON THE PANEL ALMOST
DAILY FOR A MONTH, OR EVEN
MORE, AND I DON'T THINK
THERE IS A CANADIAN OUT
THERE WHO HASN'T HEARD
ABOUT THIS, RIGHT?
SO IT IS ALL OUT THERE.
I THINK WHAT IS GOING TO
BE IMPORTANT FOR THE PRIME
MINISTER AND THE LIBERAL
TEAM NOW IS TO REALLY
PIVOT AND TALK ABOUT THE
CHOICE THAT CANADIANS
FACE.
IT IS CHOICE "A" OR "B."
IT IS SCHEER OR TRUDEAU.
>> YOU CAN HEAR THOSE
LINES ALREADY.
>> I'LL SAY IT AGAIN, YOU
HAVE A PRIME MINISTER WHO
HAS BEEN AGGRESSIVE IN
FIGHTING CLIMATE CHANGE,
ON PUTTING A PRICE ON
POLLUTION, ON TAKING MONEY
FROM POLLUTERS AND PUTTING
IT BACK INTO THE POCKETS
OF CANADIANS, WHO HAS
LIFTED HUNDREDS OF
THOUSANDS OF CANADIANS OUT
OF POVERTY.
AND YOU HAVE ANDREW
SCHEER, WHO HAS ALIGNED
HIMSELF WITH JASON KENNEY
AND DOUG FORD.
>> Andrew: OKAY, THANK
YOU VERY MUCH.
AND, THANK YOU, HANNAH
THIBADEAU, HERE WITH ME.
MUCH MORE AHEAD ON TODAY'S
BREAKING NEWS.
CANADA'S ETHICS
COMMISSIONER SAYS THAT THE
PRIME MINISTER BROKE THE
ETHICS ACT DURING THE
SNC-LAVALIN AFFAIR.
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