>> Sreenivasan: HOW SHOULD
MUSEUMS, UNIVERSITIES AND
GALLERIES TREAT PRICELESS
CULTURAL WORKS OF ART IN THEIR
COLLECTIONS THAT CAME TO THEM IN
WAYS WHICH WOULDN'T PASS MUSTER
TODAY?
SHOULD THEY BE GIVING THEM BACK?
ONE OF THE MOST FAMOUS EXAMPLES
INVOLVES A 200-YEAR-OLD DISPUTE
BETWEEN THE UNITED KINGDOM AND
GREECE OVER THE WORLD FAMOUS
SCULPTURES THAT ONCE ADORNED THE
PARTHENON IN ATHENS.
NEWSHOUR WEEKEND SPECIAL
CORRESPONDENT CHRISTOPHER
LIVESAY REPORTS.
>> Reporter: A HIGHLIGHT OF
LONDON'S BRITISH MUSEUM IS ONE
OF ITS EARLIEST ACQUISITIONS,
THE PARTHENON MARBLES.
THESE SCULPTURES ONCE DECORATED
THE GREAT FIFTH CENTURY B.C.E.
TEMPLE ON THE ACROPOLIS IN
GREECE.
CONSIDERED AMONG THE GREAT
ACHIEVEMENTS OF THE CLASSICAL
WORLD, THEY DEPICT MYTHICAL
CREATURES, STORIES OF THE GODS
ALONG WITH AVERAGE PEOPLE.
>> THEY ARE VERY SIGNIFICANT AND
IMPORTANT MASTERPIECES, REALLY,
OF THE ANCIENT GREEK WORLD.
>> Reporter: HANNAH BOULTON IS
THE SPOKESPERSON FOR THE BRITISH
MUSEUM.
SHE ADMITS THAT HOW THESE
CLASSICAL WORKS CAME TO BE IN
ENGLAND IS A SENSITIVE SUBJECT,
ONE THE MUSEUM TAKES SOME PAINS
TO EXPLAIN.
>> I THINK IT, OBVIOUSLY, HAS
ALWAYS BEEN A TOPIC OF DEBATE
EVER SINCE THE OBJECTS CAME TO
LONDON AND INTO THE BRITISH
MUSEUM.
IT'S NOT A NEW DEBATE.
>> Reporter: THE STORY STARTS IN
THE EARLY 1800s.
THE PARTHENON HAD FALLEN INTO
RUIN.
HALF THE MARBLES WERE DESTROYED
BY NEGLECT AND WAR.
THEN, A BRITISH AMBASSADOR, LORD
ELGIN, MADE AN AGREEMENT WITH
OTTOMAN AUTHORITIES WHO WERE IN
CONTROL OF ATHENS AT THE TIME TO
REMOVE SOME OF THE STATUES AND
FRIEZES.
HE TOOK ABOUT HALF OF THE
REMAINING SCULPTURES.
>> AND THEN, HE SHIPPED THAT
BACK TO THE U.K.
FOR A LONG TIME, IT REMAINED
PART OF HIS PERSONAL COLLECTION,
SO HE PUT IT ON DISPLAY.
AND THEN, HE MADE THE DECISION
TO SELL THE COLLECTION TO THE
NATION.
AND THE PARLIAMENT CHOSE TO
ACQUIRE IT AND THEN PASSED IT ON
THE BRITISH MUSEUM.
SO, WE WOULD CERTAINLY SAY THAT
LORD ELGIN HAD PERFORMED A GREAT
SERVICE IN TERMS OF RESCUING
SOME OF THESE EXAMPLES.
>> Reporter: BUT GREEKS DON'T
SEE IT THAT WAY.
FOR DECADES NOW, THEY HAVE
ARGUED THAT THE OTTOMANS WERE
OCCUPIERS, SO THE DEAL WITH
ELGIN WASN'T VALID AND THE
MARBLES BELONG IN GREECE.
WHY DOES GREECE WANT TO HAVE THE
PARTHENON MARBLES BACK IN
ATHENS?
>> IT'S NOT JUST BRINGING THEM
BACK TO ATHENS OR TO GREECE.
THAT'S WHERE THEY WERE CREATED.
BUT THIS IS NOT OUR CLAIM.
OUR CLAIM IS TO PUT BACK A
UNIQUE PIECE OF ART, TO PUT IT
BACK TOGETHER, BRING IT BACK
TOGETHER.
>> Reporter: LYDIA KONIORDOU WAS
GREECE'S MINISTER OF CULTURE
FROM 2016 TO 2018.
WE MET HER AT THE ACROPOLIS,
WHERE THE PARTHENON TEMPLE
STANDS OVERLOOKING ATHENS.
SO, FIRST, IT WAS LORD ELGIN WHO
REMOVED 50%.
>> ALMOST 50%.
>> Reporter: ALMOST 50%.
ALL OF THE MARBLES, SHE SAYS,
HAVE NOW BEEN REMOVED FROM THE
MONUMENT FOR PROTECTION FROM THE
ELEMENTS.
AND THEN, IT WAS GREECE THAT
CONSCIOUSLY DECIDED TO REMOVE
THE REMAINING.
>> YES, THE SCIENTISTS THAT WERE
RESPONSIBLE DECIDED TO REMOVE
AND TAKE THEM TO THE ACROPOLIS
MUSEUM.
IT WAS NINE YEARS AGO WHEN THE
ACROPOLIS MUSEUM WAS COMPLETED.
>> Reporter: IN FACT, THE
NEW ACROPOLIS MUSEUM WAS BUILT
IN PART AS A RESPONSE TO THE
BRITISH MUSEUM'S CLAIM THAT
GREECE DID NOT HAVE A PROPER
PLACE TO DISPLAY THE SCULPTURES.
THE GLASS AND STEEL STRUCTURE
HAS A DRAMATIC VIEW OF THE
ACROPOLIS, SO WHILE YOU'RE
OBSERVING THE ART YOU CAN SEE
THE ACTUAL PARTHENON.
THE THIRD FLOOR IS SET UP JUST
LIKE THE PARTHENON, WITH THE
SAME PROPORTIONS.
THESE FRIEZES, FROM THE WEST
SIDE OF THE TEMPLE, ARE NEARLY
ALL ORIGINAL.
ON THE OTHER THREE SIDES, THERE
ARE SOME ORIGINALS BUT ALSO A
LOT OF GAPS, AS WELL AS WHITE
PLASTER COPIES OF THE FRIEZES
AND STATUES NOW IN BRITAIN.
>> WE BELIEVE THAT ONE DAY WE
COULD REPLACE THE COPIES WITH
THE ORIGINALS TO SHOW ALL THIS
UNIQUE ART IN ITS GRANDEUR.
EVERY BLOCK HAS TWO OR THREE
FIGURES, AND HERE IS ONLY ONE.
>> Reporter: DIMITRIOS
PANDERMALIS IS THE DIRECTOR OF
THE ACROPOLIS MUSEUM, WHERE THE
STORY OF THE MISSING MARBLES
DIFFERS WIDELY FROM THAT OF THE
BRITISH MUSEUM.
PRESENTATIONS FOR VISITORS
PORTRAY LORD ELGIN CRITICALLY.
ONE FILM SHOWS THE MARBLES
FLYING OFF THE PARTHENON AND
CALLS IT THE "UNCONTROLLABLE
PLUNDERING OF THE ACROPOLIS."
YOU HAVE THESE VIDEOS THAT
ACTUALLY SHOW HOW THE PIECES
WERE REMOVED.
ANOTHER FILM DEPICTS HOW ONE OF
THE MARBLES WAS CRUDELY SPLIT BY
ELGIN'S WORKMEN.
>> HE DAMAGED THE ART PIECES,
YES.
>> Reporter: HE DID DAMAGE SOME
OF THESE PIECES.
>> OF COURSE, IT WAS TO BE
EXPECTED.
>> Reporter: THE BRITISH MUSEUM
DISPUTES THE CLAIM ELGIN DAMAGED
THE SCULPTURES.
IT ALSO SEES IT AS A PLUS THAT
HALF THE COLLECTION IS IN
BRITAIN AND HALF IN GREECE.
>> I THINK THE SITUATION WE FIND
OURSELVES IN NOW WE FEEL IS
QUITE BENEFICIAL.
IT ENSURES THAT EXAMPLES OF THE
WONDERFUL SCULPTURES FROM THE
PARTHENON CAN BE SEEN BY A WORLD
AUDIENCE HERE AT THE BRITISH
MUSEUM AND IN A WORLD CONTEXT IN
TERMS OF BEING ABLE TO COMPARE
WITH EGYPT AND ROME AND SO ON
AND SO FORTH.
BUT WE FEEL THE TWO NARRATIVES
THAT WE ARE ABLE TO TELL WITH
THE OBJECTS BEING IN TWO
DIFFERENT PLACES IS BENEFICIAL
TO EVERYBODY.
>> Reporter: BUT PANDERMALIS
SAYS RATHER THAN BEING IN TWO
PLACES, THE SCULPTURES SHOULD BE
REUNIFIED-- LITERALLY.
HE SHOWED US EXAMPLES AROUND THE
MUSEUM, INCLUDING ONE THAT IS
ALMOST COMPLETE SAVE FOR ONE
THING.
>> SO, THIS SCULPTURE IS
ORIGINAL EXCEPT THE RIGHT FOOT.
>> Reporter: AND THIS, THE CHEST
OF THE GOD POSEIDON.
SO, THE MARBLE PORTION IN THE
CENTER WHERE WE CAN SEE CLEARLY
DEFINED THE ABDOMEN, THAT'S
ORIGINAL.
BUT THE SURROUNDING PORTION IN
PLASTER, THE SHOULDERS, THAT'S
IN LONDON.
SO, THE PIECE HAS BEEN
COMPLETELY SPLIT IN HALF.
>> YES, YES.
>> Reporter: AND PERHAPS MOST
DRAMATIC, THIS FRIEZE.
SO, THE DARKER STONE IS THE
ORIGINAL; AND THE WHITE PLASTER,
THAT REPRESENTS WHAT'S IN THE
BRITISH MUSEUM.
>> YES.
EXACTLY.
>> Reporter: AND HERE IT IS IN
THE BRITISH MUSEUM, THE MISSING
MARBLE HEAD AND CHEST FLOATING
IN A DISPLAY SPACE.
>> IT JUST DOESN'T MAKE SENSE.
IT'S LIKE CUTTING, FOR INSTANCE,
"THE LAST SUPPER" OF DA VINCI
AND TAKING ONE APOSTLE TO ONE
MUSEUM AND ANOTHER APOSTLE TO
ANOTHER MUSEUM.
WE FEEL ALSO IT'S A SYMBOLIC ACT
TODAY TO BRING BACK THIS EMBLEM
OF OUR WORLD, TO PUT IT BACK
TOGETHER.
>> Reporter: IF YOU BRING BACK
THIS EMBLEM, AREN'T THERE UNTOLD
OTHER EMBLEMS THAT NEED TO BE
BROUGHT BACK?
IS THIS A SLIPPERY SLOPE?
>> WE DO NOT CLAIM... AS GREEK
STATE, WE DO NOT CLAIM OTHER
TREASURES.
WE FEEL THAT THIS IS UNIQUE.
THIS CLAIM WILL NEVER BE
ABANDONED BY THIS COUNTRY
BECAUSE WE FEEL THIS IS OUR
DUTY.
>> Reporter: AS FOR VISITORS TO
THE ACROPOLIS MUSEUM: HOW DO YOU
FEEL ABOUT THE FACT THAT HALF
THE COLLECTION IS IN THE BRITISH
MUSEUM?
>> NOT GOOD.
>> Reporter: THE ROSCOE FAMILY
IS FROM OHIO.
WHAT DO YOU GUYS THINK?
>> I THINK IT WOULD BE NICE TO
HAVE THEM IN ONE SPOT WHERE THEY
ORIGINATED.
>> YOU'RE COMING HERE TO SEE THE
HISTORY OF IT, SO IT WOULD BE
NICE TO SEE THE COMPLETE HISTORY
RATHER THAN REPLICAS.
>> Reporter: YOU'VE SEEN THEM IN
THE BRITISH MUSEUM.
>> YES.
>> Reporter: SO, WHAT DO YOU
THINK ABOUT THE FACT THAT THE
COLLECTION IS KIND OF SPLIT?
>> IT'S SAD, WHEN YOU SEE THIS.
I THINK THIS MUSEUM IS A
PHENOMENAL PLACE TO DISPLAY
THEM.
IT'S BEAUTIFUL.
AND THE WAY IT'S BEEN BUILT--
ALMOST WAITING TO HAVE THEM
BACK-- I THINK IT'S INTERESTING.
>> Reporter: AS RECENTLY AS MAY,
THE GREEK PRESIDENT, PROKOPIOS
PAVLOPOULOS, TOLD PRINCE CHARLES
THAT HE HOPED THE MARBLES WOULD
BE RETURNED.
AND THE BRITISH OPPOSITION LABOR
LEADER, JEREMY CORBYN, HAS SAID
HE, TOO, IS IN FAVOR OF
RETURNING THE MARBLES TO GREECE.
BUT THE BRITISH MUSEUM'S
POSITION IS, THE MARBLES IN ITS
COLLECTION ARE LEGALLY THEIRS.
THEY WOULD, HOWEVER, CONSIDER A
LOAN.
AFTER ALL, THE BRITISH MUSEUM
REGULARLY LOANS PIECES FROM ITS
COLLECTION TO OTHER MUSEUMS
AROUND THE WORLD.
>> I THINK WE WOULD CERTAINLY
SEE THERE BEING A GREAT BENEFIT
IN EXTENDING THAT LENDING AND
TRYING TO FIND WAYS TO
COLLABORATE WITH COLLEAGUES, NOT
JUST IN GREECE, BUT ELSEWHERE IN
THE WORLD, TO SHARE THE
PARTHENON SCULPTURES THAT WE
HAVE IN OUR COLLECTION.
>> Reporter: BUT SHARING THE
SCULPTURES IS NOT WHAT THE
ANCIENT GREEKS WHO CREATED THEM
WOULD HAVE WANTED, CLAIMS
PANDERMALIS.
>> THEY WOULD BE VERY ANGRY.
>> Reporter: THE ANCIENT GREEKS
WOULD BE VERY ANGRY?
>> YES.
>> Reporter: WHY?
>> BECAUSE THEY WERE CRAZY FOR
PERFECTION.
IT WAS A PERFECTION, BUT TODAY
IT'S NOT.
>> Reporter: AS FOR WHETHER HE
WILL EVER SEE ALL THE REMAINING
PARTHENON MARBLES TOGETHER UNDER
THIS ROOF...
>> I'M SURE.
>> Reporter: YOU'RE SURE THAT
YOU WILL SEE THEM?
>> BUT I DON'T KNOW WHEN.
