what is happening y'all welcome to
another episode of PG radio on this
episode of my podcast I have Leo, how do you finish your name?
Ssemakula.
I was very unsure cuz I haven't turned on my phone. It's like two S's in the beginning, right?
Yeah.
Where is this name from? 
It's a Buganda name.
Buganda. 
Yeah.
From Uganda
Yes.
Very cool.
So that's your dad's last name then, I'm assuming.
Yes correct.
okay so Leo runs an organization called
Slant New York City or is it just Slant?
Slant NYC, that's what we go by.
Slant NYC and correct me when I'm wrong
Because I do mess up introductions all the time.
It's a media organization that aims at making
the discourse in America less
inflammatory
You are some form of an opinion
aggregator where you bring together
people from a random array of fields and
a random array of professions to
come together and contribute to the discourse, bridging the gap in some sense between
what people think is the case and what
really is the case with respect to
opinions. Am I correct?
Absolutely yeah! It's a great introduction!
And my name is Prakhar Gupta, you've heard of me before. I'm just kidding.
So Leo um I am eternally fascinated by this
venture. I remember we have met before
when you were coming up when you were
giving birth to an idea for yourself in
terms of a project that you'd want to
undertake and it was always along the
similar lines of, you know, having discourse as
its central theme and being able to
communicate the essence of arguments
instead of the strawman's of argument,
which is also very similar to what we do
at Colloqua. I was very
interested then and then I saw the
transition from some sort of a website
is that what that's what we're working
on initially that's still very much on
the table although we are transitioning
now and focusing more on web content.
Aha! Okay. And so this web content is more
video based. yeah it's video
based. 
So tell me where did this idea come from?
A lot of places, mainly just
out of my frustration at the state of
political discourse on a public level
currently and just really a sense of
obligation to do something about it.
Is this infection particularly Columbia
borne is this like you saw some stuff at
Columbia that you were
not happy with or is it the general
American situation that you're not happy with?
I mean both. For sure. We both
go to Columbia we both know how things
work there but I won't say that's
Columbia's specific. They're things that
I've seen online that are happening
across the nation and really just how
political narratives are put together in
the media that are huge cause of
concern for me. For an Indian, for
somebody who is never
exposed to the traditional forms of
media in America because by the time I
moved to America stuff had already gone
out to YouTube in podcast and that's
what I was getting my information from. I
was in Chicago late July and I remember
sitting in hotel because I never get
hotels otherwise I'm usually a hostel
backpacker kind of a hippie guy you can
probably guess by the man-bun I have.
But I was sitting and I was changing channels and suddenly at CNN
and then the next channel was Fox, and I saw
them reporting the same news from two
different sides. 
Right!
Yeah! I was like so weird! This is absolutely so weird!
That's crazy and it's great that you brought that up because I'll
describe what I find to be wrong with a
current state of political discourse
well you have right now with the media
and social media is a system that
consistently churns out stories that
purposefully make people fearful and
angry because that's what gets the clicks,
that's what gets the ratings and
you know that's pretty well known
I mean people are aware of
this but what's not talked about enough
really is just how irresponsible this
kind of system is, because I mean
citizens of this country rely on those
stories to make sense to make to make
sense of the world and perhaps more
importantly to make political decisions
right so a question we all have to ask
ourselves is do we really want the
people voting in the most powerful man
or woman in the world to be whipped up
into a frenzy of anxiety and I mean my
answer would be no as I'm sure yours
would be to so that's why I hadn't
dedicated
to find ways to counteract that I'm
always confused as to what what
nomenclature I should give this behavior
right and I'm a fan of nomenclature I
don't know if you heard of Nicolas
Nassim Taleb or Einstein and have not I
think I think I saw Eric Weinstein on
Joe Rogan's podcast that's my phone oh
my heroes Eric if you listening to this
please contact people who like to dress
concepts and phenomena soften names and
I'm a fan of that - very interesting
names for them and tell me which one you
aligned with most one is I call it the
marketing idea of communicating news the
other angle is is a tabloid format of
communicating news so here is where they
both come in in the late 90s I believe
in when the whole Princess Diana Prince
Charles things was unraveling Rupert
Murdoch was an Australian media mogul
that's what they use he started sending
his newspaper the son after Princess
Diana everywhere Princess Diana's
personal life was up in the air and when
Rupert Murdoch was asked in the British
Parliament as to why you're doing this
he's like I'm just giving the people
what they want
right with on the other hand the
marketing idea is similar to it's it's
really like this is what people will
react to I'm giving I'm giving people
entertainment I'm giving them stimulus
this is one they want and it makes me
wonder two things as a matter of fact
the first thing it makes me wonder is on
some real twisted Freudian
psychoanalytical unconscious level we
desire that conflict on a continual
level and the second thing that makes me
wonder is for people like you and me
people who are actively making an effort
to bridge the gap is that the sense
making apparatus of our times has failed
tremendously because it is pushing out
inconsistent ideas and beliefs non-stop
what do you think about the four things
I know it's a lot to get through but all
very interesting and I mean to a certain
extent yes this is the content that's
turned out right now the you know
excites people can be described as you
know fulfilling some kind of demand but
just because there's demand for
something doesn't necessarily mean that
that's what should be put out
right and you know I personally believe
that there are ways of giving people
what they want without necessarily being
irresponsible and you know I kind of
want to draw the line between tabloids
and hope and well not necessarily that
but like between the tabloids and
political news right and news on
politics I think you know if it's a
public figure or if it's a celebrity the
tabloids work fine right and you know
there's a lot kind of parse through
there but I think you can kind of brush
that aside as entertainment but as soon
as you have a kind of dynamic in place
where you are agitating people
constantly in a sphere that has like
very real a very real effect on how
history will unfold on like a political
level that's when it gets kind of
dangerous right well increasingly
there's less and less of a distinction I
think Trump and the Trump era of
politics is like is amazing yeah nice
tone yes absolutely and and you can in a
way you can kind of blame the media for
that and you can kind of like blame the
media for the state that we find
ourselves in
currently right Eric Weinstein
interestingly enough talks about shocks
to systems as a theory of redoing the
way we consider of things we work on
things and he says right in the recent
past America has had three big shocks
one of them was 9/11 the other was 2008
financial crisis and third of them was
Trump being elected in some sense and
and they all tend to become markers of
culture that follow right so post 2000
and 2001 is something else opposed 2008
is something else in post 2015 16 16 16
is absolutely a different ballpark of
understanding how the American culture
is operated but when you mentioned this
distinction and it helped me
conceptualize the idea of the
psychoanalytical drive that we have
towards you know this
this massively misrepresented new cycle
kind of a fashion of yeah for media
delivery that we have it's the same
thing we like our heroes to rise up this
underdog that's good to be the David in
the David in the Goliath certainly at
the top of Halle and then we like to
destroy them right if you want to watch
the fall there's an awesome South Park
episode about that
I forget the name now but um after this
all I'll look it up what happens I know
it basically touches on exactly what you
described it's like this it's almost
this like tribal desire to like build up
the celebrity and then like breaking out
yeah it's it's it's it's liek mattifying
in India we call this the page the page
three and I think it's a British
borrowed term tabloid is more like an
American usage of the same yeah
expression yeah very interesting
so tell me I was also talking about did
you right before research on the mic
about how your background plays into
this this is interesting you hear from
Uganda in Belarus yes what part of your
family is from you yes you grew up there
yeah you move to America only around the
same time as I did which was 2017 yes
why is it that you have not only
committed yourself to American values in
terms of a career prospect but you can
find yourself to be an American I think
what is this trust of motivation that
you have for this project
absolutely yeah that's a great question
I mean firstly I grew up in two separate
dictatorships so not the freest
societies yeah surprisingly enough it
turns out that the Tator ship wasn't
conducive to freedom um but no so I mean
America is always represented a level of
freedom to me and I think a lot of
Americans who grew up here and this is
all they've known don't necessarily
appreciate how special all of this is it
really is special and you know just the
freedom to live your whole truth and you
know be as eccentric as you want to be
as is very rare so I just feel the need
to you know bolster those values the
I think our to serve except the right
values
well values that I believe in and you
know in whatever way I possibly can I
want to preserve them absolutely because
I you know I know how much they mean to
me
- Utley know how much I enjoy being in
this kind of environment where I'm
intellectually free and I could not
necessarily say the same thing in both
Belarus in Uganda right I mean you can
be intellectually free privately but you
know yep it's called preference
preference falsification in economics
your private references and you know
many preferences are different all right
I don't know about the term but that's
pretty interesting - mmm I'm just
getting to him bro localized the context
that you just gave so ok of this
intellectual freedom that you speak
about in terms of think about
intellectual fair free ground being the
case in calc at Columbia there is a it's
a heavy question for sure I definitely
would say that there is um a more there
there's a widely accepted narrative that
you are go against at your own risk
for sure and if even if you approach
that from not necessarily a position of
belief but just purely on inquiry you
know there's a lot to be said about that
but you know I think there definitely
are spaces that you can navigate that
don't necessarily existence yeah and I
think it's great that you guys at stoah
or setting up
a more formalized space the that can
happen right I I want to get to the
essence of what you do but I think I
might forget it and I think it's that I
communicate no I might forget what I'm
going to say now and I think it's very
important that I can mitigate because I
don't think I truly truly truly truly
truly don't think the founders of
colloquia including myself and including
all the other absolutely brilliant
people that I am a part of the team ever
saw what what has happened to colloquia
and what will and I don't think some of
them even realize it now because it's
not the most obvious thing here's what I
think we managed to do at colloquia and
then I want to I want to ask you how you
plan on doing something akin to that
something similar to that trait I think
we have managed to on a very small scale
on a very very small scale managed to
absolutely democratize the not
absolutely but massively massively
democratize the process of intellectual
discussion we've created this potluck
buffet model of things where you don't
need to have an opinion you might just
have three lines of the hex hexagon that
you have with six lines you might have
right but a decagon of ten lines but you
have only three lines three points in
there
and you come to the table and everybody
else brings their three line decagons
and you with that construct a potluck
where you fill the table up with the
different varieties of food everybody
it's a great analogy and then you've
been taking whatever the heck you want
with you back home no questions asked no
compliance needed compliance needed and
it's done in a way but you can
absolutely suspend your individual
belief so with the same decagon I have I
have a negative image of that decagon on
a mirror which is like the opposite view
that to which I hold and even with that
I've said four out of the ten lines I
need and so you can place that on the
table for somebody else as well we
managed to create truly an absolutely
amazing exchange of ideas without
creating the element of social
compliance in them or we've tried how is
it so how is it that slant approaches
this concept of discourse political
discourse I'll tell ya um so we're
basically championing a new way of
covering political discourse on a public
level that's outside of punditry outside
of you know the hysteria of the
political comment
so about two months ago we started
filming a video series called the people
speak where we approach pedestrians and
public spaces and ask them to give us
their opinion on political events or
issues and you know that's been pretty
insightful I I definitely have learned
quite a bit for myself still learning
because the series is still going on but
really then tent behind the series was
to I mean show our viewers and ideally
America that you know most people aren't
militant political activists like CNN or
Fox would have you believe they're
regular people trying to get by like you
know like most people and they just have
some opinions you know they're not the
super inflammatory commentator the the
news will have on to boost ratings yeah
absolutely
they're not that you know those are
outliers most people are children's are
strongman's on their site right you know
don't stir I'm not familiar straw
Manning is is the art of putting your
argument out in a way that where I take
the weakest form of your argument right
right so like the progressive narrative
is strong and fit effect when people
speak above what you see and Twitter is
a straw man of the problem okay gotcha
what you see of the right-wing activists
on Twitter is the sort of man of the
right-wing argument for charade I prefer
the right and center left is really
where the discussion the more
substantial discussion for values is and
you know also the least anxiety-inducing
right the least combative and you know
that that's what we're really trying to
highlight with our series that you know
even if someone has a different
political perspective than you for the
most part they're more similar than they
are different and that's really what
we're trying to demonstrate and that's
one thing we're working on and another
thing that we're working on that I'm
very excited about is another video
series called movements of America and
we're still approaching political
discourse from a very like individual
human level
although we're not approaching just
anyone on the street we're reaching out
to representatives of political or
politically involved organizations and
you know we're just gonna be following
them around you know finding out who
they are as people what they do on a
daily basis and really kind of get to
the root of why they believe what they
believe like what happened in their
lives that push them to represent this
group and that's gonna be really cool
because I think on one level it will
demystify certain organizations though
we see on the news all right so the
reason why Franco the wizard behind the
camera miss you I miss you Franco sorry
yes the reason he couldn't be here is
because um he's actually filming footage
for our first episode with Planned
Parenthood so for example like what what
drives people to work for Planned
Parenthood and you know push their
agenda forward and what we're trying to
demonstrate and you know what we'll be
clear as soon as we start putting
content out is that you know these
aren't the the super villain desk groups
the yeah exactly they're just um there
are regular people who've organized and
are trying to make the world a better
place how they see fit based on what
they've seen in their own lives um based
on you know the worries and the hopes
that they have for the future which are
you have no different for most people's
right and yeah and that's and that's
really what we're trying to capture with
select just the commonality between
people and I think our our format is
great for that because you know it's in
a sense it's just regular people
engaging with each other without the
anonymity of the internet you know it's
it's you're not distilling someone to
their two-dimensional essence you know
like they have a Twitter and it's do 80
characters
pictures yeah and then that's what your
going off this is this is this is a
person you know who's just was just yeah
who's just you've got off of work and
you know it's tired or you know just
went for a jog you know there's like
regular people living their lives we
really just want to bring you know just
Norton like humanize the discourse once
again I read the paper on freedom
liberty political freedom and so on over
the summer for a class that I was taking
and I feel like that paper was such a
phenomenal point for me in terms of
understanding some of the more
interesting aspects of the political
spectrum and here's how that happened
right
I think the summarize the summarize of
the extreme the people who were Swartz
and guns ready for battle on the extreme
ends right they forget that the very
reason why Liberty was fought for for so
long the very reason why he girls end of
history is still so far away is because
we did not fight to be right we fought
to be free most of the people really do
not even have the extent of political
opinions they they really don't want to
pop like the true freedom is to not be
bothered about politics at all true
freedom is not to be bothered at all so
I yeah I don't care is what the right
response to politics is is the ideal
response to politics I'm not sure about
that not right now I mean I mean in a
philosophical eventualities right where
systems work in a way but I don't have
to care for them I can go about doing my
own job mmm what do you think about that
it's very interesting um I wish that
could be the case I'm not too sure
whether that could ever be a reality I
think that one because I think you know
politics political systems have to
evolve to meet the needs of the time and
you know whatever they may be
it could be social economic whatever the
case and I think that requires a
constant engagement between people and I
think that you could you could expand on
that because it's very interesting and I
wonder how that would work but um I
think that political systems have to be
continuously re-evaluated over
and that and that requires caring and
talking about them and yeah and requires
individuals who are consistently
involved in the process although I wish
that we could just you know never worry
about politics ever and I just do what
we feel like in every moment of every
day but you you know political systems
are just how we relate to each other and
how we negotiate living in the same
space and negotiating our behavior
amongst one another so I don't know
whether we could ever do without that
right I think again of course it's
biologically not possible sociologically
it are possible and so on and whatnot
but then there is this philosophical
dream that are sort of garden in my own
self which is in which I think politics
is very much like chasing your own tail
when what you need to be doing is either
running forward or backwards so this is
what I think I think the true pursuit of
human beings in this time an era in an
ideal world is either what is out there
what what is being here what is this
consciousness where is the history of
humanity what where are we coming from
like answering those questions I think
the true enterprise humans have is
understanding what politics is in the
system that facilitates that
understanding in a peaceful fashion for
sure but when we get to engage with
politics may end up just chasing a tail
and never getting to the questions at
hand now if there's politics in the
physics department 100 years 120 years
since Schrodinger rode his wave theory
wave wave equations for quantum we still
haven't known what the nature of reality
is even in a question mark with what is
the nature of reality
I get what you say and I actually I do
agree with that I do agree with that of
course that's a tangent for as far as
your purpose or answer and you are
trying for us to not Ju yeah yeah
absolutely I definitely do think that
perhaps politics is too pervasive in a
lot of aspects of our lives and I think
that it does lead to that kind of
dynamic where we're chasing our own
tails because
I mean certain certain intellectual
pursuits might be held back because of
political motivations and imagine if all
the neurons in the world but online into
thinking about quantum physics do you
think you know like you that's why we're
waiting for AI to emerge that is
undeterred by political ad undeterred by
it so that's a little scary it's on the
turn but um that's a comforting doing my
is it no emotions no need to guess for
another party right yeah I will ask you
particularly what is landing about snack
why the names land so I I mean it's kind
of hilarious um no no no mom we weren't
high my mom no you know we're thinking
about names and you were talking about
people's political slants and how you
wanted to put a spotlight on them and
perhaps display how you know they
weren't as extreme for the most part as
people would have you believe and you
know slant just slant NYC has a nice
ring to it right so also you probably
might be able to add this little part
you can say that in the process of doing
slant we realized that the slope wasn't
as deep as we thought it was oh wow
that's that's what you can I hire you as
part of our marketing team can you find
me somebody who do my marketing inside
I did good one line is because I used to
be a portent oh yes that's very
interesting
so tell me and this is sort of a harsh
question it's intended to be a harsh
question because in sort of parsing out
an idea that might be some more
homogeneous regardless somebody do you
think everyone's opinion has a place
because everyone does not do that
homework before making an opinion why
must you have the line if you don't have
the conjugate responsibility I love that
question I love and I think about that a
lot I think everyone has the right to an
opinion
and it kind of relates to what I was
talking about earlier because well you'd
want doctors or engineers to have to
pass a certain bar before they're able
to carry out their responsibilities
right so you'd what you'd want someone
performing surgery to have gone through
Medical School and be experienced and
you want someone who is building a
bridge that millions of people are going
to use to be qualified but I think
there's a real risk in the political
sphere for rushing people aside and
saying that they don't have the right to
an opinion because they aren't well
educated or you know well-read on
specific issues primarily because again
politics is just a means for us to
relate to each other and it's a it's a
negotiation of how we're all going to
behave towards one another
well ends it society plus deception plus
deception you know I don't know what I
think about that I I tend to have a more
I tend to have a more optimistic view
out there there is always deception in
politics I feel right but um I think
that the less the better for sure but
you phrase the question asti the great I
agree with what you're saying right I
just want to finish up that thought so
so really politics will affect how
everyone organizes their lives to a
certain extent and I believe that
everyone inherently has a right to
organize their lives as they see fit so
I think if you brush people aside and
say oh like we're not going to value
what you're saying because what you
believe is contrary to the greater good
it's a very dangerous dynamic that
you're setting up because all of a
sudden you have individuals who get to
dictate dictate what everyone else will
do without any scrutiny absolute
and I agree that I totally am behind
that motion on a personal level and on
an intellectual level but let me
rephrase this to elevate this khandhas
this issue and make it more refined
right okay here's what I think we've
managed to find a way to embed rights in
a legal framework we managed to embed
we've managed to find a way to embed
rights in a compliance framework right
we can offer rights to people
however we haven't managed to find a way
to embed responsibilities in the legal
framework right so as an American you're
only a civil responsibility or your
civil Duty is the jury duty yeah in
India we have a conjugate amount of
basic fundamental rights and fundamental
duties but we still haven't managed to
do that for the political graph and here
is how I mean it if my opinion by any
met by any medium be that the the the
loudness of my voice the the the number
in my bank account any of that if my
voice is to be heard and is to be heard
on an influential level how do we make
sure that voice has a certain scrutiny
behind that right how do we make sure
that the rights that are exercised are
in due process with the responsibilities
that come behind that what do you think
about that I think it's a very
interesting idea for sure and I
definitely do think that everyone is
responsible for upholding a system that
allows them to have certain rights you
know even if I'm even though I'm not
from here I still feel responsible to do
whatever I can to uphold the liberties
that I believe in so I definitely do
think perhaps there needs to be a
greater call for responsibility right um
in America for upholding the values
right I think I think the in congruence
that is that rights are legally provided
by responsibilities are supposed to be
set for zoom and we haven't been back to
that yeah and you know and that's it's a
fine line right because because you you
don't you don't want to again prescribe
responsibilities yeah this place and
especially in America I mean the whole
you know a big part of the
consciousnesses freedom annuity yeah and
a fundamental aversion to working with
the government or as the government is
the even yeah we can see this manifest
and you know the the health care debate
for example and I completely understand
I completely on between two different
dictatorships I can wholeheartedly
empathize with a certain level of
apprehension over allowing yourself to
be told what to do by the government
because I know how much that it sucks it
sucks but you a balance needs to a
balance needs to be found I'm not an
absolutist in any sense and I think that
the right answers are rarely
two-dimensional and yeah and really
advanced there's somewhere in the bin
says yeah my friend my friend Phil says
the truth is always somebody in the
murder
yeah right and that's why I called the
extremists I call them extreme samurais
because they're always willing to fight
you know like I'm going to start using
on the issue of balance what do you
think is a balance between the personal
and the political to what degree is the
personal responsible for being political
or what do you use the call of action
for the person to be political when can
i recuse myself from that is very tough
question i don't know yeah III don't
know whether I have a definitive answer
but um I would say that I think it
varies based on the time like you said
right like currently you know people are
definitely a lot more involved in the
political process and perhaps
the time calls for it but I do agree
that perhaps
the most ideal setup is an environment
where you can focus as much as possible
on your own pursuits and your own ideas
or visions of freedom or pleasure right
and you know and that's that's really
what I think of it oh so I was reading
up a paper by a DES startled and and
then the Benjamin constant was a French
philosopher after the post French
Revolution age and even comparing the
the the level of freedoms back then and
and this is how so during the ancient
Athens during when Aristotle was alive
being a citizen meant exercising
political rights exercising political
freedom you had to be for the sake of
being a citizen you were somebody
because everything else was managed by
traitors and slaves and whatnot right so
yeah the upper a Cleon got the
opportunity to exercise political rights
and so you had to be involved in the
stores you had to be more than the
discussions you have in the public
square to speak about it only then are
you a citizen it's a circular one is to
one relationship where citizen political
discussions political discussion citizen
kind of a thing very interesting however
I'm guessing that was very limited right
only yeah only a slight sliver of people
got that okay but then when we came to
the post French Revolution era he was
like listen we want the kind of a
political system where the person does
not have to be political right what we
want is the Liberty from exercising
political freedom that is true Liberty
the Liberty of from all responsibility
is true Liberty where and and and it's
sort of as like that's such an
interesting swing of things you know
more like mmm-hmm and it makes me wonder
because I was I was militarily political
not really political in the sense but
you around you yeah I want to do
something for the political future of my
country or the area that I belong to be
that America
I can empathize with that but then I was
like um I don't know man I think I want
I want to be free and that means being
free from this constant its constant
night and you know and that's and that
really goes back to we're talking about
just now about the balance between
rights and responsibilities have you
ever come across people in doing with
their madness and we don't want a
comment on politics it's too tight oh
absolutely
um you know honestly it's kind of
surprising how many people are willing
to talk to us you know the stereotype is
that pathetic American who doesn't care
about politics but we've certainly it
was great to find so many people willing
to talk to us although there certainly
are a large number of people who like
hey I don't have an opinion I don't care
about this enough we have come across
them and you know what I don't mind that
they don't to certain extent because
that falls in line with my idea freedom
right I believe the people should have
the right to say hey I don't get I don't
care but I do think that there perhaps
needs to be a bare minimum of conscious
of consciousness and political action I
think it's it's completely irresponsible
to denounce yeah yeah absolutely yes
because I mean that that then negates
reality that then is saying that yeah
it's it's it's glossing over the fact
that all of this works and will continue
to work if we continuously negotiate the
terms of our collective existence with
one another
and that can only function if we're all
involved we so I guess really it's all
about figuring out what the bare minimum
is and perhaps that's a conversation
that needs to be yeah like what's the
bare minimum amount of 40-degree
consciousness that you must yes it's a
vague district topic yeah
that you should be concerned yes because
that sort of bleeds me into one of the
things we discussed when we met like
earlier this week as well and I think
that is the fatal flaw or let me put it
this way I think representative
democracy as we know it across the world
has in my view very recently it has come
to my notice that there might be a
monopoly on the idea of democracy so I
put out a model of democracy with
respect to colloquy I'll be absolutely
unscalable at this point and very very
limited in and it has a very conscious
involvement for its functioning and it's
over only of one one and a half hour
period of week and you know all of those
limited constrain factors but it's a
different form of a democracy I think
representative democracy has a
mathematical flaw embedded in it system
and the flaw is that of cost-benefit
analyses right imagine that is n number
of participants in a representative
democracy and there is X number of
issues and it have to represent it X
number of X amount of work right the
cost total cost of that nation is n into
X n members have to do X amount of
homework well the power is won by any
yeah yeah I really like that analogy
right I really like the way you broke it
down um yeah that that's a very real
problem and perhaps explains why there's
so much apathy the occurs roughly I
don't know not smart but the job of
philosophy is to show us that the part
of the question might be the problem
itself yeah I mean it's it it's tough
man because you have a nation of what
three hundred and fifty seven million
people is it right now how do you get
everyone to have a unified vision of the
future right how do you get everyone to
cooperate but that would be communist
Anna yeah yes without like whipping
people into shape right having them like
willingly cooperate that's tough and is
that possible like on a biological level
like are we hardwired to be able to
operate with three hundred and fifty
million other people I don't know
but and maybe the answer the answer I'm
kind of toying with at the moment is
just breaking it down to smaller and
smaller units right if you if you have
governance on a smaller level
and perhaps set up a network I mean it
that's kind of the whole idea behind
States having their own rights to govern
as they see fit uh I think that's a
great idea and I think that that perhaps
needs to be revisited now especially
with social media connecting us all on a
very like unified level we tend to we
don't look at what's going on in our
cities anymore or even in our like
neighborhoods right or like you know
what's going on with our neighbors it's
more so what's going on with the world
right what's going on in the global
community village yes and and I think
that one might be conducive to
stagnation because you deal with
problems that are so large that they
might as well you know you might as well
throw your arms up in the air and say
you know I'm not going to deal with
these yeah yeah and it also like deep
personalizes the problems so I I
definitely do believe in that and I
guess you can see how that philosophy
would tie into slant right bring
everything back down to a human level
yeah yeah yeah
so to just just you know let's let's
look at what's around us right let's you
know on it on a very like real level and
yeah I don't know how how functional
that would be I'm not a politician in 20
years old what do I know about how a
country should be run but I mean that
that's how I look at things right now do
parts do that okay do very end engine
thoughts right first I think I see a new
wave which the person and the political
can dance together in a romance yeah it
is the Communist China model and we were
just talking about it right before yeah
what what China does is what you were
talking about this tribal coordination
whether manageable or not what if the
entire entity was one organism what if
the entire political was one person
right so I could give my new it's a
minut amount of pain for delayed
gratification
to the person which is not possible in
any other democracy I cannot say
willingly with all right enlightenment
reasoning behind my back that I can
punish the Kashmiri right now for the
integration of India as a whole I cannot
say I cannot I want to punish Alabama
with whatever form or fashion or Flint
Michigan for the pharmaceuticals that
gets circulated to the rest of the
country that's just not how democracy
with the Enlightenment rationale works
but China can be liberal we can we can
punish Hong Kong right now for the
integration of China as a whole you see
it's like I will take the pain here in
my bicep for my body to be functional as
a whole yeah right like this immediate
pain localized immediate pain for the
long-term benefit of myself sure it's
not it's inverted and democracy you
cannot do that without being questioned
without without having to introspect
yeah I think so I I agree but I don't
know what I I'm always hesitant to buy
into the greater good kind of framework
um because one who decides what's the
greater good right greater good for who
and you know I think that kind of way of
political organization is just counter
to freedom and I think it's a very it's
a very slippery slope and again the like
I said before I don't buy into absolutes
but I think when you have you know
certain things do need to kind of follow
that like education for example I think
it's in everyone's interest to have like
a well educated populace but with most
things I think it's it's best to leave
people to their took to their own
devices in it yeah the second thing that
came to my mind was oh that was this as
this ex-navy see who has his own part
gasquatch equivalent garden if you've
heard of joke oh I have a joke was very
interesting Joe Cole wrote a book on
extreme ownership crime he's a
leadership blue and from there everyone
so check him out once he wrote extreme
leadership
like then he wrote a book on that that
caught me I forget to say where he sort
of places the factory with the
counterfactual when it comes to
leadership so when you say I am twenty
years of age what do I know
but I'm the same hand you say I am
twenty years of faith I need to start
taking responsibility for my
surroundings right it's it's it's like
it's like there is always two pulling
forces in opposite direction that you
might have if you take too much
responsibility you become if you start
thinking you know the best for not just
for yourself but everybody around you
yeah yes right yeah this is like I don't
know anything you become an anarchist
right yeah and so you have to find this
this little in the dialectical for sure
behind this middle path yes that's right
also I but I think it's important that
you have the freedom to be able to work
that out fear so Oh apps working you
yeah I am all for that but which reminds
me I'm and I want to get I would have
gotten to that once you were talking
about content and branding for your
whole thing I think you should start a
podcast for yourself as well oh that's I
mean voice hahaha you're too kind Parker
Oh apart from that it's it's a better
medium of putting your ideas out when
you continue doing everything that you
can I mean I'm open to the idea for sure
if we can um you know talk to the team
made me figure something out you I think
where we are with the basics as well I
appreciate that is you have fun doing
this today this is a great time okay
goodbye this is great and honestly we're
always looking for new ways to reach out
of champion our vision right so whatever
form that may take we'll see
right here's my next question what is
what is it what is the content that you
come across in the process of taking
slant some ballet what is the kind of
opinions you've come across what would
you do a wide range of them I mean like
I said before like a key insight that I
gained is just how you know how willing
people are to speak and how ready they
are with their opinions right like they
truly do think about this stuff and
their free time you can tell we've I
mean we've covered
a bunch of topics we covered climate
change reparations for slavery that was
a particularly um yeah very very charged
and we decided to go to Harlem Marcus
Garvey park and you know reach out to
the african-american community there to
see what they think that was very
interesting
they they believe that reparations were
something that were required like this
should happen but it again it wasn't
this a militant perspective they will
see on the news right it
it was the they were parsing through
that question on like a very rational
sane level where you know they didn't
you know there's those this lady I
forget her name now she was great and
she was really just talking about the
disparity and resources between certain
communities she was a mother in Harlem
who had to send her kids to a different
neighborhood to go to school because she
wanted a better future for him and
that's hard man yeah that's very hard
yeah so and that that's all that's all
that she was really complaining about
she said we listen we don't want a
thousand dollars deposited in our
account we want just societal changes
and we want the government to invest in
our in our communities so again it's a
very rational thoughts that are going on
here like like no one's super crazy
about anything
same thing with climate change the same
thing wouldn't go to control what do you
think is the phase even it comes to
reparations well I well anything that
would perhaps call for the burning down
of the White House or you you know you
what do you think about me putting my
van
on my Instagram telling ya when when we
for five bucks 250 bucks for you being
white and me being black is that
something that's happened I saw that
crazy was that me was was that was that
a oh wow was that like a genuine thing
was it a joke I mean that that's kind of
crazy and I don't know what the context
there was maybe they're just being kind
of ironic and maybe they were you know I
wish I hope they are but yeah but but
that but that would kind of fall under
the category of just a little
over-the-top
right right especially because while me
and you might be able to look at that
and say like hey maybe it was ironic
maybe it's not someone else might look
at that and be completely or completely
put off by it I think that's dangerous
and I also the grander point that I was
trying to drive with all of this I do
not disagree that there is a massive
inequality in America there's no and
it's it's localized around race and
community to a great degree and for
shirts to a great degree but if you can
afford being at Columbia or even a loan
for Columbia for you to ask for five
dollars and 150 dollars you know that
makes you want to be like yeah I don't
know if if that is it's it's it's the
intersectionality of race and privilege
there right absolutely and you know like
I I struggle to kind of fall in opinion
for that myself because I don't black or
white and you know it is interesting
because I mean walking through America I
am a black male right that's what people
see that being said I'm from East Africa
so my family history is very different
from that of a African American right so
I didn't necessarily feel the same kind
of trauma the descendants of slaves
would so there's there's one thing and
again culturally and very different and
especially since um I'm also from
Belarus that plays into it but but
that's kind of an aside how does that
work out in
dog considering you were light-skinned
fuck yes I mean you in Uganda I'm white
I was gonna say I'm condemned yeah I
have green eyes oh you know people look
is a beautiful man in case I'm just too
kind
please keep going here but no I yeah I'm
good the term is Muslim goo in blue
yonder and no no I won't even call it
that like it's not it's not necessarily
yeah it it's not meant to be offensive
no and Zulu yeah and and now what its
kind of turned into is more of like a
term for foreigner then it is just for a
white person what is going on in Hindi
yeah means farad right yeah but now I'm
saying it you wanna go down yeah yeah
that's that's what it's kind of evolved
into and yeah but when I go to Belarus
for example like I'm considered black
right I'm considered an African so it's
my experience with race has been very
fragmented kind of crazy and you know
what it's it's just given me I guess
like a unique perspective it's like like
like like what is my home ya know is my
home I mean both places you know like
even though you know even though perhaps
even though perhaps I don't fit in
perfectly within in either of those
places
I still feel strong connection to both
of them and they've both made me who I
am and I've both I I've met like
incredibly beautiful people and both and
people show me nothing but kindness so I
appreciate the gratitude yeah that's
massive if anybody's listening to this
that this gratitude is the is the hack
that you need to your psychology is what
keeps you going man and I mean that in a
very epigenetic level there is a there's
a researcher called dr. Joe Dispenza and
it's and is a really dr. Bruce Lipton
and they research on
epigenetics and they've found some
phenomenal stuff with respect to
graduating thought observation and
epigenetic expressions you change your
genes with gratitude crazily imagine
that crazy
ok I'm gonna practice that more you
should look into him Wow yeah all of
those cases I will know I'm yeah that's
a me on a bit at a very basic level it
makes you feel good yeah we could say
that that's a level that I for sure I
will understand it up but yeah um so
home is both places for sure what have
you found with other issues climate
change and you know the same thing
really like people are just we all share
like I said similar anxieties and hopes
for the future and about the future and
you know we really are just trying to
get by and secure a reasonable future
that that's really it
do you not feel like the content that
you're making the stuff that you're
doing puts you in this very unique place
where the only way you can leverage this
capital into Fame and success or for
that matter reach if that is your metric
of success right hunter I would have to
emerge from an existing perversion and
here's what I mean by that it's not
naturally appealing to hear moderation
is not naturally appealing to us hence
why why would you say that I mean I I I
tend to think that the people would want
something that's more balanced I think
now I think oh I think a lot of people
are kind of craving a more like
down-to-earth kind of coverage and it is
only the politically conscious because
of that I think that's what the local
works with I don't know I don't know and
and I think perhaps even if people
aren't necessarily conscious of the fact
that you know that's what they're
looking for I think as soon as they
start engaging with our content they'll
start seeing the benefit of it and we
really are going to try very best to
kind of communicate our value and kind
of communicate why what we're doing is
you know I think
everyone kind of deserves to have a more
level view of the world and you know a
more sane view of the world and I you
know I personally believe that people
are looking for it so I don't
necessarily think we have to buy into
the the kind of hysteria we're working
where we're counter that what we're
going against the hysteria here's how I
put it okay there's two existing models
of being successful as far as your area
in my view goes right the Facebook
Twitter and CNN MSNBC and Fox model
which is create a stereo throw shit or
something you know and then there's the
humans of New York thing which works on
gear I should write which works on
grounding humanity in humanity right for
sure this is how human this person is
right now the trick with this is you I
think you fall in the later camp
especially you for sure would be the
political humans of New York in some
sense right yeah and in the way that's
what we are not yeah the right to do
humans or so and so so and so a lot of
them have defected to the side because
this side is at the base at the
biological level more of being to be
here so how is it that you plan on
getting people to be interested in your
stuff how do you are reaching people are
well one we're gonna be traveling we're
gonna be going to all these places I
mean I we I mean we starting off we're
starting off in New York but we
eventually want to travel around the
East Coast to start with like you know
really engage with people on the ground
and depending on how things go travel
elsewhere in America like we really do
wanna I mean we're called slant NYC but
we want to go nationwide it's really the
idea if you ever need a
conversationalist you know yeah for sure
for sure for sure we will
and to so there's one approach that
we're gonna take and - we're just gonna
generate great content and we're gonna
keep finding ways to kind of really get
at the root of why people believe what
they believe and just really tell human
stories and I think that I think those
are appealing I really do believe that
Oh America and to certain extent like
the world is just yearning for this
determination yes I guess political
moderation perhaps but just you know
this is just this sense of unity right
this sense of like a collective this
anxiety in the face of you mean yeah
yeah because I'm there there's a lot to
be anxious about in the world but
there's also just a lot to be thankful
for
back to the gratitude and and and I
think that it's we are living in a crazy
crazy time but there's um there's a lot
that I mean just just think about how
far we've come over the past five
decades grade a lot of progress has been
made so yes here's another notion for
you I divided the camp into the foxes in
the Facebook's on one and there is a
synthesis to this dialectic which is the
who is America have you seen the TV show
no oh is that Sacha Baron Cohen yeah
that's not Netflix is it it's on like
man is it HBO I'm not sure I look into
my brother that sure is a fuckin feet of
genius this is what Canadian and this is
what's land this is what all the other
scientists have to watch it you know and
Sacha Baron Cohen capitalized in it
brilliantly here's what he did
what's the premise okay here's what he
did he peddled the hysteria from camp
one using the model of camp two years of
years re-register he plays five six
different characters very very charged
characters and Israeli army man who's
extremely program read a professor who's
hyper liberal who apologizes because
he's white every time he says something
and he brings out the worst in people he
meets oh he will becomes a professor go
to a Republican place Republican house
where he'll be like I let my daughter
free free free bleed when she's on her
period on the flag of a
and we realized that it becomes a flag
of China and these guys are just like
what the fuck did you just say he's like
crazy and he pedals all this hysteria in
a very human format hmm with humor in a
way that's unparalleled my friend
he made the Sacha Baron Cohen's a genius
my man he's goin is my when I saw that
charade as like I don't believe this I
think this is all scripted he made this
the state representative from Georgia
shout the n-word out on oh oh wow I
think yeah I've seen that and I think I
saw him talk about that on a talk show
or something yes and he's like he's like
that is one word in America that if you
say it gets attention
say it now the terrorists sir I'm doing
a bad job at the Israeli accent if
they're attacking you what is the word
and this guy starts shouting the n-word
he's like no shut up that's disgusting
the word is nuni
so he just uses that I mean I need to
watch that you would love that I need to
watch that love you know I'm gonna look
I'm gonna look it up fuck who is America
Russia America okay for sure and you
know just uh on a tangent we had one of
my favorite questions to ask people was
um what does it mean to be an American
we've got some great great responses for
that and you know um that I guess to a
certain extent that's a question that
we're continuously trying to find out
with slant like like what like what is
what are people doing on the ground
like everyday right like like what is
like the defining identity markers of
American yes yeah and like and what's
gonna like bind everyone together like I
yeah I definitely need to I definitely
do feel like um there is a strong need
for more unity and so what have you
found what are the general contours that
you can pull out in terms of what
connects people yeah what is what
doesn't being American for people in
America oh it is that the definition
changes based on who you ask and I based
on the kind of cards they've been dealt
oh sure except liberty freedom and the
pursuit of happiness have you found some
some some people would go so for us to
say that those three things that you
mentioned don't exist any don't exist
and like never did for a certain segment
of the population which is
understandable
did you know I
have the word pursuit of happiness in
the kind of freedom of acquisition of
something to do with I mean was it
initially night doing property right to
own property to move it's fine crazy I
ain't crazy and then can you deny that
America was not founded during
discrimination no way that's true and
again I'm always hesitant to be like
this is a perfect nation now because
like because there is whenever I do say
that like I believe in the principles of
this country and I believe in this
country and the people there is an
inclination to kind of always like throw
like like what you just did at me where
it's like you know like this this
country is not perfect I know it's not
perfect but I do think that it's a great
working model and I think that it's
demonstrated its ability to change right
and I think and I think and I think the
principles that I believe in are what it
allowed it to change over time you know
that you know the women's suffrage
movement the name of speech man yes to
you know civil rights movement right and
the ability to be same Yeah right
absolutely an assembly absolutely it's
all powerful that's and that's what I
believe in I don't believe in any of the
and racist crap what Americans need to
realize is not just that that has taken
America to what place it has but it has
also taken the rest of the world to the
pressure you're at for sure right yeah
these ideas that we speak about globally
as so many of them and not just ideas
but technologies not just technologies
but practices that we speak of globally
were given birth in America China has
managed none of that even though they've
come at par in terms of competing on a
one-on-one level yeah America has sort
of it sort of does have this
responsibility of bringing everybody up
visit with the ideas that it produces as
a matter of consequence from this
intellectual wrestling match that is
engaged in constantly I agree you know I
agree okay let me ask you this what in
an ideal world what is the future of
slant is it the walks model of future I
won't necessarily structure
I will necessarily call our ideal
structure the Vox mask I mean
that's a great question I mean my vision
for the future right now is just you
know reaching as many people as we can
coming up with awesome new ways of
demonstrating the human experience in
America and having a vast array of
content you know we're doing movements
of America and we're doing the people
speak but we want to expand and you know
there are we are currently talking about
the development of an online platform
although you know that perhaps is more
long-term and it's something that we
really have to you know be very
responsible about from like an ethical
perspective you know because anything
that like involves you know politics and
technology right now is just you know
it's it's all over the place thank you
yeah no so I mean we're mainly if we
were ever to pursue that we have to go
about it from a very very transparent
and very and very ethical way and we're
thinking about ways we can do that but
but really what we're focused on it's
just our core mission and whatever
however that will manifest over time
remains to be seen but it really is just
finding ways to bring the political
discourse back down I mean just a few
pegs down from like Shar Armageddon sha
sha sha I truly do miss Franco the other
brain behind the project here but I
think you've done a fair enough job at
earning my respect for your project
thank you that means a lot that's not
trivial at all but let me ask you this
and I wish again Franco was here for
this but in the world of as we progress
five years down the line it will be
parent than it is now but to be very
honest the callings been coming for 15
years that this world's now what we
called a personal branding word
everything's personal brands if it's not
the t-shirts future t-shirts will not
say Apple or Google any longer they
would say Ray Kurzweil and seeing jobs
and Joe Rogan and you know and and
PewDiePie they've insane names of people
right yeah but I think you know that
already kind of hit well right that's
just like one step like password what
we're saying right now absolutely my
point is not a bit progressing it I had
a hyperspeed type of velocity towards
this content creation personal branding
world hmm how do you plan on directing
dogging your content in the future how
do you plan on being Leo and not a slant
or slant and not Leo how I mean to
certain extent I feel like I'm very much
connected to slant because I mean it it
represents my beliefs about the world I
don't think I can ever holy jesus
separately from it you know it's my baby
I feel very connected to it very happy
father jokes but know that that's a
great question and I don't know whether
I have an answer for that that's
something I guess yeah no but yeah
that's my job if I can make it yeah if I
can very thought very thought-provoking
I know that's my job my job is to make
my guests think make my guests feel like
they know about that project better than
they did before they watch you've done
your job I hope I have man is there any
question you have for me any questions
oh so I actually brought over some slant
stickers so I guess the question that I
have is whether you could if I find a
place to put them and you're beautiful I
could just grab my backpack okay at the
end of the podcast please yeah please do
I'm great down for any future
collaborations if
I wouldn't idea I would be to leaving
your project really appreciate that and
also offer space for you at colloquia
anytime you want to come or do a
workshop or any of them that would be
awesome
you know like let's let's let's talk
about that absolutely but this has been
absolutely fucking phenomenal there's a
lot of my favorite conversations in a
while man thank you pressure we brought
out some of the more interesting convert
questions about democracy and and the
political scenario right now instead of
falling back on the same drops of
questions that have existed in the
marketplace of ideas for long enough for
sure I think you've done a phenomenal
job at answering a lot of them and I
think I owe a forgot to mention you're
also one of the biggest fans I happen my
podcast yeah you know I love what you're
doing then and and I'm very you know I'm
a very huge fan I'm I'm I am a fan of
you were saying that man I'm flattered
thank you so much this has been amazing
man all right it's truly been amazing
thanks
