A lot of you might not be familiar with the
term MCN so Courtney if you'd like to elaborate
a little bit more what YouTube considers to
be an MCN or Multi-Channel Network.
Sure so Multi-Channel Networks are partnership
companies that aggregate a lot of channels
sometimes tens of thousands of channels on
YouTube for promotional gain as well as to
provide a benefit to channels. So the benefits
can range from cross-promotion, sales, production
facilities, etc.
The networks started because companies saw
that creators were having to do everything themselves. So they had to film, they had to find production facilities,
they had to try to cross-promote themselves and connect with advertisers.
And so these partners have
a tremendous obligation to get kinds of scale
in working with them and helping them so the
only thing they had to do is focus on creating
great content. So some of the original networks
that appear, as I'm sure you're all familiar
with: Machinima, MAKER and FullScreen, and
they were some of our largest aggregators
on the platform in the beginning.
And what you saw is that these networks are
becoming the next generation of media communities.
They're not unlike the TV networks. They are
centered around a demo or vertical And they
build an audience around the value of proposition
and then they're able to sell that targeted
audience plus the brand. So, what we're seeing
is they cross-promote, cross-sell, commission
content, produce it. We're seeing this, that
these types of networks are showing us that
there's been this evolution in the marketplace.
So you've probably seen a lot of activity
lately in terms of some of the acquisitions
and the investments. So you saw Time Warner
invested $3 million in MAKER. And Comcast
and Chernin invested $3 million in FullScreen.
And with some of the acquisitions recently
of Revision3 by Discovery and the acquisition
of Tastemade. I'm sorry not Tastemade. AwesomenessTV.
So what we're seeing is that, even though
there's these really large aggregators on
YouTube we're seeing a different model emerge
which is one that's a little bit smaller.
So instead of our largest one's can have up
to 75,000 channels like AwesomenessTV. MAKER
has 60,000 channels. But this new model is
more focused on really collaboration with
the community. So you're seeing something
like with Tastemade which, so they just opened
a production facility in Santa Monica, 7,000
sq. ft. focused on food. They fly chefs around
the world into LA, and they get there and
they create and they collaborate together
and they also build platforms to ensure that
there's a lot of collaboration. Also BigFrame
is another example of this type of model,
where instead of having tens of thousands
of channels you're maybe having 50 to 200.
So it's really interesting to see this evolution
of networks come to YouTube. Something nice
to know is that we don't want creators to
feel like in order to be successful on YouTube
they have to join a network. And YouTube is
really committed to making sure that we have
a level playing field for both the channels
that are both within and outside of networks
in terms of resources and support.
Yeah I think we need to... get all those...
down there...
Do we exist? Do we exist?
[indistinct] have opinions. Barely [indistinct]
This isn't as bad [indistinct]
Alright well let's just go ahead and jump into the brass tax here. I mean there's a lot of creators out here that just want to
know the question: Should I join a network
or stay independent? Do you think it's easier
to grow as an individual or do you think that
that production support is [mumble mumble]
Well here's what production support really
is. There's lots of asterisks that come with that.
Well every network's different right?
So do you think that there is a specific network
that might work for you as an individual or
what are the pros and cons associated with
that.
I'll still jump back I guess to: should you
join one to be more successful? I guess there
is to a certain degree, it's getting harder
and harder to get discovered on YouTube. So
you have a possibility, if you make sure it's
in your contract, that it specifically states
that they have to find ways to promote your
channel, that they have to find ways to get
you into other people's videos that have 50,000
subscribers, 100,000 subscribers depending
on who you are, and like trying to figure
out that cross-promotion. Don't trust them
that they're actually going to do anything
if it's not in your contract. I don't know
if, I like the old fashioned way definitely,
of just actually reaching out and trying to
find people to collaborate with in an organic
way, but you definitely will have a leg up
if the network has that as one of their values
to work with other people.
You see the type of thing that you know if
you're brand new and starting out, I do not
understand the model of tens of thousands
of YouTube channels to your creator. They're
building these networks off the backs of the
up and coming creators. It's not on the backs
of people like us that have become super successful
on the site. They have to make very specific
deals to even work with us that are mutually
favorable. When it comes to the up and coming
person you're not going to be able to negotiate
the same way, they're going to try to take
more of your revenue, etc. and they're hoping
that you are going to become the next big
thing under a contract that you never would
have signed if you already were the next big
thing, combined with means to aggregate all
of you together gives them a lot of money.
Now that investment is not going to necessarily
boil down to you in the middle. So I don't
really get the idea of joining any network
that has 60 or 70 thousand people in it because
you're not going to get that support that
you're probably wanting from them in the first
place. If you can build yourself up, like
she was saying, you don't need to join a network,
though I have... it's a whole other conversation
about the things that YouTube are doing that
are making it very difficult to be independent,
though that's a different thing for a different
question. But if you can build yourself up
to a certain point then the network can have
some value for you and you can have that leverage
to actually negotiate a good deal with them
because you already have built something for
yourself and it isn't the idea that the network
can say that we're the reason for this happening,
will go away because you've already built
yourself to that point.
Well no one network, no one business model is exactly the same right? There's many different networks out there.
There's many different options or business models. Now Courtney and
Tim both you come from very unique perspectives.
Would you like to elaborate a little bit on..?
Yeah, no, I mean, um...I think there's a lot of validity in what he's saying and I think it's part and parcel why we built our network.
We had a very specific mission to keep it
small. We're a boutique focused on high quality
premium lifestyle content creators. So as
I said we have 50 channel partners. But I
think also, I think you also have to, when
you're thinking about "Do you need to join
a network to be successful?" it really is
determined by what success is for you.
So for us we're not supporting production. That's
not one of our value ads. What we're doing
is equal parts partner management - dedicated
partner management, because we have 50 channel
partners we can have a 1 to 1 relationship
with our channel partners. We help them grow
through doing collaborations within our network,
so you have a very like-minded audience that
you're exposed to. And then direct sales.
Our company focuses on direct sales of east
coast and west coast sellers who are bringing
to bear not only media but branding content
opportunities to our partners, something that
more than likely they wouldn't have access
to on their own. Certainly they could get
branding content deals on their own, but being
able to make that into a 6 and 7 figure deal
is something that you can only do if you bundle
in media. So that's sort of, that could be
a success perspective, what a partner might
be looking at to sort of level that fair [indistinct]
on the platform.
Yeah I think they're, I mean. Going along
with what I think is, it just depends on what
your objectives are, and so maybe cross-promotion
is the most important to you, but if you look
at someone, if you look at one of the networks
as a collective: they started off as a traditional
talent agency. And now they've moved into
producing and distributing content and helping
creators really leverage that direct-to-fan
relationship. And you soon you see what they've
done with Freddie Wong and the Video Game
High School 2. They got him a Dodge promotion
for... that will be featured in series 2.
And then we're also going to be selling that
across different platforms. They also help
partners get in to upper avenues like TV and
movies. They helped Fred with his first long
feature length movie that was licensed by
Nickelodeon and it was the top cable movie
of the year at that time. And then they helped
daneboe, the Annoying Orange, get a 10 series
part on TV. They partnered with toy makers
and some of the brick and mortar companies
like JC Penny to distribute branded products.
So in that sense if that's the thing you're
looking for there's different networks that
offer different services. But we also have
tons of examples of partners that have succeeded
not being in networks. If you look at Michelle
Phan, right? 4.5 million subscribers. She
did an original content deal with us. You
look at Ryan Higa. Right? Toyota just approached
him to help with the Toyota app and used him
in a YouTube commercial. He's our top 3rd
subscribers of all time. You look at Jenna
Marbles. Ray William Johnson just signed a
script deal with Fox. So I feel like there's
a lot of examples where you can be successful
in and outside of a network.
We work with, I'm from Alloy Digital, and we work with less than 100 creators right now. The ones that we've really have hand
selected that we feel really fit in well with
the DNA of our company, so that means ideally
big enough that we can sell brand sponsorships
for, ones that align with our core verticles
of entertainment, comedy, gaming, and women's
lifestyle, and we provide advertiser solutions.
We've been working with the big red advertising
community for over a dozen years. Far before
YouTube was even around. Selling digital marketing
programs across the open web. And we've been
building on that success for a long time.
And so it was really a natural transition
for us to get deep into the YouTube space
to be able to provide those monetization services
to emerging creators. And we've done a really
remarkable job of doing that over the years.
We also provide opportunities for exposure
so if there's an up and coming sketch comedy
act that starting to break on YouTube we can
see that and promote that to our SMOSH community
for example which is huge on YouTube and also
has a huge destination web site that can offer
some tremendous exposure to help creators
gain new subscribers. I feel like we've done
a really good job at that. And so we're not
in the business of working with 100,000 creators
but we feel like for those that we do get
into business with there's a tremendous opportunity
to really develop a digital media brand together.
Some of those examples, like FreddieW and
daneboe, were already established channels,
right? So they already have this massive following
so the expectations in negotiations for a
channel like that versus somebody who starts
out with a few thousand or a few hundred subscribers
is going to be completely different in the
negotiating process. What expectations should
you have for network support versus intellectual
property rights, giving stuff like that up...
What should you expect in the negotiating
process if you're considering that?
Well, you should expect that they're going
to try to take way more percentage than they
should of your revenue for dollar one. They
shouldn't be taking anything from dollar one
unless they're providing you value. When they
provide you with value you can share in those
profits. So that's definitely something you're
going to have to deal with. They're all going
to say that they're going to be taking that
huge percentage from you and just keep fighting
it. If they actually care about you and they
want you to be a part of their company they
should be willing to negotiate with you and
if any of them are s... when you negotiate
with them if any of them just give you that
hard line, it's not going to be a company
that you want to work with if they're working
that way. They'll pretty much just send you
a boiler template contract no matter who you
are. We even still get that sometimes. But
it's just like, they throw it to you and then
it's your job to tell them "ok now we have
to rip this apart and change it all". Remember
they're just... it's part of life. Business
step to send in their standard contract sometimes
and you're supposed to negotiate.
Just fyi - my passion is "being quiet" so
I haven't said anything. I do definitely...
it's so difficult to know if... you hear so
many promises from networks of we're going
to help to build your channel [goes and start
clicking on to you] But it's so difficult
to know what they're actually going to bother
to give you unless you have the experience
of working with them. I find the idea the,
just the question "Is it going to be good
to go with a network of stay independent"
is... that you can do all of your research
but it's so difficult to know unless you've
gone through that. But you also don't want
to just jump into it to have the experience
of learning what it's like to be with a network.
I've been with a network once and I was really
lucky that the contract that I signed with
them was one where I could leave at any point
with a month's notice. And for me that was
a really great opportunity to be like "oh
well this.. well let me try working with them.
I can see what it's going to be like and see
how many of these promises they're actually
going to follow through on." and in my experiences
was that, I was with them for 8 months, and
nothing was different at the end of that 8
months. And so I left.
My advice as someone who deals with a lot
of people that are interested in joining networks
is, ask for partner testimonials. Is there
sombody within your network that I can talk
to to find out what their experience is like.
Or even better, know some people that are
in the network that you can contact directly
because otherwise you might be getting somebody
that is more favorable... has a more favorable
testimonial than somebody else. Also...
I'd add to that. That's very good advice,
as is: it's hard to find because of the way
this ecosystem has worked out: Who left? Try
to talk to the people who left the network
and find out why they left, and that's also
part of the conversation.
SocialBlade, if you guys aren't familiar with
SocialBlade.com that gives you a lot of insight
into what channels are currently with a network.
That's a great point that... much harder to
find who's left. Then again another thing
is too if you feel you're getting that boiler
plate standard agreement and you think that
you want to be negotiating that, it's well
within your right to say, you know this is
a CPM that I'm getting now. Educate yourself.
Learn what a CPM is. make sure that you understand
your YouTube analytics and understand you
current Ad-Sense revenue and what you're generating
now and make the network work for you. Make
them come back to
you and say "Well here's a revenue projection
for the next 2 years of how we're going to
increase your revenue" or if it's a network
that does production support, to your point,
make sure that you can see in writing what
they're proposing that they'll do for you
or what promotions that they're going to give
you like... Make them do the work. For sure.
Yeah never... good, I think easy advice: Never
1-click. There's a lot of networks out there
that are like "Go to this link and just sign
up your channel and you're part of our network
and we never even spoke to you". So don't
ever do that. If anything make sure you talk
to a human. don't just click the button that
gives you the revenue. Something that we talk
to YouTube a lot about is, like hoping and
wanting, I've said this a lot of times: There's
Copyright School on YouTube. You know, you
did something wrong you have to go through
Copyright School in order to continue going
on. I think there should be MCN School and
no channel should be able to join a Multi-Channel
Network without some information being given
to them to make them understand that they're
giving their revenue to somebody else to collect,
they're not a YouTube partner, they're partnered
with them, etc. With these types of things
that they at least had to go through and saw
something to make them understand what exactly
it is and be told that they don't need to
join to make revenue because that is a misconception
that you need to join a network to monetize
your content which is not the case.
So let's go ahead and jump into revenue since
that seems to be coming up a lot. As far as
the different types of monetization for a
network and as an individual, credit integrations
and stuff like that, do you find it's easier
to do try to do the ad sales on your own as
an independent or as the networks here as
far as their ad sales teams are concerned
and stuff like that? What do you have working
on that? How is that helping out with anything,
even your clients?
For Kin Community we have 4 full time sales
people, 2 on the east coast, 2 on the west
coast, that are working full time to bring
deals and opportunities for our channel partners.
Again, we have 50 channel partners. We've
got 4 people working full time for 50 content
creators. I think what I hear a lot from our
current partners is they'll get contacted
by PR reps from different brands a lot. I've
got this product, would you do a video about
it? And what we're able to do is take that,
so let's say it's a kitchen product manufacturer,
introduce us to that contact and let's see
if we can actually make this much bigger.
Because you might be either getting this offer
to do something for free, just here take the
product talk about it and do a giveaway, or
they might be throwing you a couple hundred
or a couple thousand dollars but we have the
ability to go a lot deeper and bundle in media
which is the pre-roll, the display ads, and
everything surrounding that and make that
into a much bigger deal so that not only are
you getting revenue for your talent and your
integration but you're also getting your channel
roadblock from a really high CPM. So I think
that, one of the things that I hear because
we, much like Tim, we're really again selecting
who we're bringing in to our network. We definitely
talk to a lot of content creators that have
big channels that have decided to remain independent
and I think that the one area that they always
talk about, which is their sort of sticking
point, is they're getting a lot of inbound
requests from advertisers that they don't
really have a way to turn that into something
bigger. That's where we feel we kind of help
out.
Also YouTube has a 12,000 person sales team.
We've worked with over 2,000 advertisers.
And the teams are really key in connecting
creators to advertisers. Some of the most
recent ones was JRSportBrief. He's an independent
creator and the sales team worked with Capital
One on the NCAA sponsorship in Atlanta. And
so the YouTube sales team created the three-pronged
sales approach for three creators: two of
them were on the BigFrame network and one
was independent. They went to Atlanta and
filmed original content, posted it on their
site, and then Capital One also promoted it
by playlisting that. They also created branded
content for TrueView and Capital One is really
excited to work with JRSportBrief and will
continue in the future. Another one that they
did was one of our YouTube adventurers, Peter
Bragiel, and it was with Land Rover. Land
Rover came to YouTube, had no intention of
working with the creators. Often times these
advertisers have never even heard of YouTube
networks or understand the power that the
creators can bring. And YouTube sales team
came up with this idea of a road trip called
In Transit that Peter was going to go on.
And so it started off at this Land Rover experience
center where he experimented with a few different
Range Rovers. It was a very intimate, authentic
experience. And again it created a lot of
custom content around it. So we have a lot
of examples where our sales team is bringing
these branding and [collusion] deals to the
creators that are in networks.
At Alloy we have a sales team of about 30
people. About 20 of those are actual sales
reps on the street, you know working with
Fortune1000 advertisers and their agencies
on record. I think that's what probably one
of the most valuable things that a media company,
or MCN, or network can provide to talent that
has size. Because frankly if you're independent
I'm not sure how you would have those relationships.
I mean they take a long long time to develop,
and build and there's a lot of trust that's
involved. One of the advertisers that we've
worked with we've worked with for years and
we get the campaign briefs months ahead of
time and go through a very formalized process
to submit proposals and back and forth negotiation
which could go on for months. It's one of
those very formalized processes within the
advertising community and I don't see how
that could happen unless it's just on a one-off
basis. So I think that's something really
valuable that a network can provide. If you're
someone that fits well within what they're
selling.
I agree definitely in terms of, I have absolutely
no idea how I would express myself, figure
out some kind of big brand integration deals,
going through that process of everything you
talked about. But I'm lucky because I just
don't want to do any of that stuff anyway.
I'm not interested in having sort of big brand
deals in any of my videos. I'm fortunate to
be in a position where I'm making enough money
from what I'm doing that I can live on it.
And joining YouTube my passion was never to
make as much money as I possibly could it
was to make the best videos that I could.
And that's not to say that I've never done
any brand integrations and stuff before but
my preference is always to do that stuff in
a way that I'm not actually earning from anybody
from it if I can. I had one experience where
I went to PIXAR Studios and I made a couple
of videos about that trip. It was when they
were releasing Toy Story 3 so I have no idea
if the videos that I made of that trip have
anything to do with the success of that movie.
Disney liked the videos that I made for them
and I got to go and, at the full experience,
and I didn't want to add anybody from the
trip because I wanted to make sure my opinions
of the film had some integrity behind them.
For me, yeah I think it's an important thing
to think about is if you're and independent,
yeah it's sort of beneficial to me in that
sense because I just [take], have no interest
in [fritzing] out those deals. That's not
who I am on YouTube.
We, I definitely want to be exploring those
options we can't do them ourselves so that's
definitely one of the big value adds up networks
is that ability that they're trying to build
down that whole unit at each of these places.
I think that you would just hope that there's
better terms in your contract than just the
types of things that they don't reach a certain
amount of revenue for you in that regard or
you're with them for a year and they don't
literally do a thing. You shouldn't be exclusive
to them giving you those deals anymore if
they cannot provide you with that. There's...
just you should be able to figure out negotiation
to not make yourself completely locked up
with them forever with how long some of these
deals end up looking when you look at the
contracts. If they're not providing you any
value again, they shouldn't be taking revenue
from dollar one of your own stuff and they
should be splitting those deals that they
bring you. Trying to be much more flexible.
I'd love to see the networks be much more
flexible.
Your sole reason for joining a network should
not be the brand deals. Granted, yes that's
a value they add, but I feel like all the
networks would even agree that they're doing
everything they can in a lot of cases but
they can't guarantee it. They're not going
to necessarily be able to get a brand to do
whatever you specifically do. So that could
definitely be part of your equation. Oh, maybe
there's that opportunity but like he's saying,
if they have failed there should be a way
for them to be able to get great opportunities
in other ways if they are unable to do it
after 3 or 4 times, if that's the primary
reason that you are joining.
Very good. So, before we open this up to audience
Q&A I know there's an established creator
out there. They have a fairly large community
of guys like you that they can talk to if
they're considering joining a network, but
what advice would you guys give a new channel
that's debating on it. Fairly small, maybe
a few thousand subscribers. And what expectations
they should have for certain things going
in to whether or not they should join a network
or not. What advice would you give them?
You want to make sure you're aligning yourself
with a network that [two borrow son and Vince]
said earlier is like similar DNA. Are the
other channels in the network, are they the
same vertical? Will I be able to grow my audience
because now I'm sort of aligned with, whether
it's the channel partners in the network or
the network itself... as I mentioned before:
testimonials and really understanding what
you're currently making and earning on your
channel and what the network is saying that
they should actually help you grow in that
regard.
I would say get to know the people at the
network. I mean that's who you're going to
be working with. That's who you're going to
be talking with on a regular basis. And it's
really important. And like these guys said
earlier, maybe try to find out who else is
in that network or who was in the network
because there's probably a lot of research
you can do before you just jump into a partnership
together. And set expectations, you know?
A lot of our deals are very different because
frankly the creators are looking for different
things. We have creators who don't want brand
deals, who have turned down brand deals from
us. It's just not what they want to do and
that's fine. We have other people that, if
they're in Los Angeles maybe they want, for
a special project they might want to use some
of our space and we're absolutely open to
that. We don't lend production support day-in
and day-out but if there's a special project
or part of a brand deal, you know absolutely.
We're in this together. But just set expectations
for what the partnership is intended to do.
I just want to say, it's important to do your
due diligence. There are some red flags that
you can look for, so things like a perpetuity
contract, alright? Just don't sign a perpetuity
contract, or things like that. And I don't
think it's black and white. I don't think
it's join a network or not join a network.
We have some channels that are working with
5 different networks, and there's not necessarily
underneath a single network. They work with
one for digital rights management, one for
channel optimization, one for sales. Or you
could work with third parties. So there's
so many different options out there I don't
think you need to just say, well I'm either
in a network or out of a network. But again
just do your research. We also have a certification
program. We're requiring that networks pass
a certification to, we'll be able to see which
networks um forget...
Are you able to share what constitutes certification?
Because I've seen horrible things that would
be against it from certified networks. So
where's the judge? Even then, is there really,
this is I guess different, but like is there
even oversight over that? Like if you find
out that there's a perpetuity contract floating
around now somewhere, are you going to now
say that x network that has 10,000 people
is not a network anymore? Is there any consequences
from YouTube's side that they'll actually
go through with to a network if something
like that's happening?
So what are the horrible things you're talking
about? Like the first stuff that you said?
You said there's some horrible things going
on in the networks?
There's perpetuity contracts, there's right
of first refusal stuff that gets very complicated
where like anything that they make if they've
got a deal to put it on another medium they
have to get a right to match it. There's taking...
it's putting value things on there like "Join
us and get a custom thumbnail" there's, don't...
should a lawyer look at this? Eh you could,
but you don't have to. We can have a conversation
offline about a bunch of other stuff of online
[indistinct] like that but...
Or you can yeah or you can, reports like,
if they're actually even, if they're paying
people what say they're supposed to be making.
How can anybody actually know that because
it goes right to them and they're not giving
full reports..?
Right, [rang this present child] right. And
that's something you need to look out for
because even though there's not a lot of transparency
in the networks we are trying to... so for
the certification we do have certain requirements,
you know. Partners have to be in good standing.
When we found out about the things like the
perpetuity contracts we tried to go out into
the marketplace and, I think for the most
part get them discontinued for a lot of the
networks. Because we realized that was perhaps
damaging to the ecosystem. And we do have
the feedback mechanism internally, if you
find some of these networks to be out of line
or to be in bad behavior. Sometimes we need
evidence we can't always get. Now if you are
certified and then you fall out of good standing
we will take that away from you. So we're
working on building a feedback mechanism and
an inner process to ensure that the ecosystem
is protected and we do want to make sure that
it's balanced and that channels don't feel
like they're disadvantaged if they're not
networks. They're outside networks.
Just to add to the... you know, "get to know
the people at the network", get to know a
lawyer also and somebody that understands
this stuff. I don't know what, hopefully a
list will come out at some point of lawyers
that know this space to some degree because
that's also a problem is you go to an entertainment
where they might not know how the digital
space works and they'll [collect] get you
a good deal and negotiate you a good deal.
Also it depends on the type of content you
make because if you're a game play person,
you're doing video games, if you're not with
a network you will not, pretty much won't
make any revenue on YouTube but if you join
a network they already have content ID set
up and such so you won't have to wait for
a week for your video to possibly get monetized.
If you're an independent partner or not even,
or just trying to monetize your videos, if
you're in a network you're going to get monetized
on your game play videos. If you're not, you
know Machinema left a bunch of people in the
dark recently, all those people that were
making a bunch of money had to go and sign
with a brand new network because by themselves
they couldn't monetize their videos anymore.
Well they can. So anyone who mon...
But they couldn't.
That was a few years ago.
No no no no this is not, this is a channel
with a million subscribers that left Machinema
and could not get ads on anything, and we
brought this to YouTube's attention for all
to-do and there is a system that ultimately
yes, they can get them. This is a YouTube
issue where I do feel ties into the networks
because getting to a place now that creators
that we know that are smaller that have stayed
independent or even networks end up coming
to us for help when we don't even have all
the answers, or they're like "this is killing
me, I have to send all this verification to
YouTube for every single video I make now
and there's no reason for it. It didn't happen
before" The auto-ad feature is something that
should have some type of rule for when you're
in network or not or something to be like,
you can turn that off so that's not something
that forces someone to join a network because
it's starting to happen more and more.
So [last years]. So you're talking about the
monetization review policy and as you build
up your quality support, a lot of the network...
But if you join a network you instantly get
it
...but we're actually... so those are some
faults of our system that we're working through,
and those should be fixed very, very soon.
So, I I really you know that's... but but
you do build up your quality support and you
will get through that monetization review
system so you won't be at a disadvantage whether
regardless or not you're in a network.
Alright well let's go ahead and open up some
audience Q&A real fast.
Can I just say for [play] just coming back
to that point of yeah figuring out if you
should be joining a network or not, I think
in lieu of not being able to add, as far as
I'm aware this sort of average contract that
you would get would be like about 80 or so
I don't know of any sort of smaller ones than
that. So in lieu of not being able to just
sort of like "try out" a YouTube network,
my experience YouTubers love to bitch about
the network experience that they have and
so I feel like the best possible opportunity
that you'll have to find out about YouTubers
experiences with networks is right here. So
I would encourage anybody if you've had an
experience with a network to tell it. Tell
that experience to the person next to you.
And sort of just share those experiences [possible]
so we can all learn from each other's mistakes.
Don't be afraid to share your experiences.
It's going to help everything. The only reason
the things the networks have gotten as good
as they have been to this day is because people
have come out and have been willing to put
their stories out there. Because the networks
started in a really bad place and people kept
putting things on reddit and their perpetuity
contracts out there on videos. And that's
what helps teams and space is the more you
do that the more it's going to get better
and better for the creators.
So I have a 2-pronged question: First for
the Fine Brothers [indistinct] Why did you
join a network? And for Charlie: Is there
a scarring in your mind where you would ever
join a network?
I mean we're not, as much as it may seem,
we're not anti-network guys. We've never been.
No we're not. We were involved very early
with MAKER Studios when this was all starting
and had a lot of ideals that existed, excited
for what this can be that we believe in and
think there's amazing things that networks
are even currently doing and can grow to become
better in the future. And I would really love
to see the networks actually own up to them
- saying they're created first or saying that
they're all for the creator. Well let's not
be so traditional media about the way we do
these things and right now it is very very
traditional.
I just say that like being, we've gotten to
a point of where we are with our subscriber
base and with the leverage we have we are
able to completely dictate what that deal
is going to be so though I can't say what
our deal is, you know it's mutually beneficial
for what we are specifically wanting. And
we, when we are able to talk to crowds like
this we try to do our best to scare the crap
out of you so that you don't let yourself
get taken advantage of because we know that
you're not in that position that we are to
be able to dictate those things. And the more
that you can actually show that you do have
a voice, you are the reason that these companies
are even existing, because all of you guys
are joining in these places. So you should
have way more power than they're letting you
have so we try to just tell you everything
possible that you should be in fear of. We
don't tend to really deal with those things
anymore because of where we've gotten we're
able to dictate those contracts.
Charlie.
I've been on the fence about whether I want
to make sure that I'm getting more money from
a network without having to have those sort
of... because when I was with a network I
wasn't earning any extra money from working
with them and they weren't earning any money
from me simply because I knew the way they
were able to make extra money for me was to
r... setting the "premium ads" which were
just those pre-rolls that are unskippable.
The ones that I hate whenever I watch YouTube.
And they will sometimes make or break for
me whether I will even bother watching the
video if there's like a 20 second ad on it.
So for me it's either find a way for me to
make more money without having to have those
really annoying adverts or accept that I'm
going to... that you're not going to make
any money from me unless you really work on
projects with me that are outside that realm
of getting extra advertising and being happy
to be earning less because of that. And also,
just wanting them to care enough to sort of
take the initiative to figure out how they
can help my channel grow because I don't feel
like I have to be the one sort of starting
to have meetings with them and telling them
what it was... that is... yeah... what...
figure... like yeah just poking them to be
like "Can you help me now? What is it that
I can do?" um... and I feel like it's yeah...
so, with that it would be impossible for me
to want to be a part of one of those networks
with an insane amount of people under them.
I would really have to be... I want to be
talking to actual real human beings about
what they could do to help build up my channel.
But as it is I feel like I get more than enough
support by just YouTube on it's own than I...
anything that I could feasibly get from YouTube
network I currently get from just YouTube
the company anyway in terms of having the
creator space in London. We're part of a project,
little CIP, the Creator Innovation Program,
which helped me get funding to make [fuel]
films that I'm currently doing in London.
I feel like YouTube the company themselves,
at least the team in London are willing to
take that initiative to feel like "Hey we
want to, you should be doing this. This would
be better for you" and start poking me in
that way.
We've got 3 minutes before she mugs me in
this back alley here so we want to burn through
some questions really fast.
Sorry. Sorry for that long answer.
So, the perspective of most of the content
creators on the panel is, you guys have built
a large audience right? So you guys have unique
leverage that someone maybe with one or two
thousand subscribers doesn't. My question
I guess is for Courtney: If you're a small
independent content creator on YouTube and
you're trying to decide whether to join a
network or not, you know YouTube has their
own sales force of 12,000 people but they're
selling a bunch of different products as well,
not just YouTube, and there's no way that...
I mean there's nothing to challenge right?
So there's no way a salesperson at YouTube
is going to have... is going to be able to
speak to thousands of channels which with
only a thousand or two thousand subscribers.
So is there in YouTube's point of view or
maybe some of the content creators point of
view, is there a threshold where it doesn't
matter because it appears to me that if you're
a small channel you're going to be better
served by joining a network that maybe can
have more of a personal relationship with
you. When you get to the size of some of you
guys it's another matter. Everybody is going
to be paying attention to you on the sales
side because you guys are the big shiny object.
Because I don't know if you know what that
number is if it's sort of...
So again I mean I really think it depends
on what your objective is as a channel, what
you're trying to accomplish. But if you go
and you join a network that has 75,000 channels
are you really going to get any more support
than if you're working with YouTube? And we
have a really great YouTube Partner Program.
And we do offer support, we have online support,
we have programming strategies, even for smaller
channels. As you build up your subscriber
base and your global audience you'll continue
to get more support from YouTube. But we are
looking at leveling the playing field even
more for these channels. I think you just
need to look at what are you trying to accomplish?
Is it you want to do the branding integration
deals? Do you want to be part of network and
sales team? Will that really help? Is it worth
the cost? But I feel that you can be successful
outside of a network because of how great
the YouTube Partner Program is.
Even if you're a small channel?
Yes.
In the back. We've got like 1 more minute
before she gets the billy club out
So I know or at least the sublet is that networks
get very very detailed nitty gritty demographic
information about who's watching whose channels,
what ads they're clicking, etc. etc. It doesn't
seem that that transparency is going to us,
at least through the MCNs that I've experienced.
Is there any plans to make that more transparency
clear so that we, if perhaps we grow with
the network we get to a certain point where
brands are directly approaching us or we want
to mini-branch out, we can know who out audience
is and what they like and what they're watching,
and what ads they're clicking because right
now I've got no clue? Do you know what I mean?
That... what.. I've... I don't know what...
One there's like two pretty much like things
that, and of course there's ATI things that
other companies are doing you could try. You
could sign up with those and maybe just go
around the network to get that information,
but there's... the network that you're in,
I'm not sure which it is, they should be definitely
supplying you with basic analytics...
They are
...you [should pretty well keep that] analytics,
and then you should, if you didn't, you should
put in your contract to get a breakout of
the TMS monthly report that has pretty much
all the very very specific stats. But even
YouTube is like constantly trying to build
out more tools that get that information...
but yeah I would just keep pushing I guess
on your network. Just keep telling them that
"I want that. I want that"
You get [Tasha] to any stat right here because
Ian, he's the man when it comes to analytics.
So I mean like, YouTube's analytics is, it's
pretty good. But, she's about to beat me up
so, Benny and Raffi will be up here if you
want to mug him for questions or something
like that. I appreciate all you guys coming
out here, and I'd like to thank all the panelists.
