[MUSIC PLAYING]
[APPLAUSE]
MICHELLE PHAM: Hi
Wendy and Dr. June.
Tell me a little bit more
about yourself and your work.
WENDY NGUYEN: Yeah.
Dr. Chin?
JUNE CHIN: Should I start?
WENDY NGUYEN: Yes, please.
JUNE CHIN: Sure.
So my name is Dr. June Chin.
And my story is I was actually
a patient, a cannabis patient,
before I even
became a physician.
When I was a teenager,
I was diagnosed
with a crippling
arthritic disease
of the spine called Ankylosing
Spondylitis, or AS for short.
And what ends up
happening is your spine
literally fuses together.
It's almost like Krazy Glue.
You lose the ability to
flex, to extend, to rotate,
to turn your head.
And I went through conventional
treatment, of course,
as a teenager.
I did NSAIDS that are
nonsteroidal anti-inflammatory
medications.
I did muscle relaxants.
I did over-the-counter
acupuncture.
I even did epidurals.
And I'd wear this back
brace all the time
to give myself stability.
And by the time I got
to medical school,
I was having such a
hard time standing,
and I was so disheartened
because I was surrounded
by wonderful physicians,
great medical minds,
but no one could really help me.
And one of my attendings, one
of my mentors, Dr. Levine,
pulled me aside one day.
And he was a specialist
in HIV and AIDS.
And he said, what's going on?
You're always wearing
this back brace.
You're having a hard
time standing in the OR
or helping deliver babies.
You're not going to make it.
You're not going to make it
through med school like this.
I explained that I
had AS, explained
that I was in excruciating
pain all the time,
but I really couldn't
take any medication,
especially while working in
the hospital or while studying.
It was so sedating, and it got
in the way of my academics.
So he handed me this
tincture bottle.
It was marijuana.
And I remember he
said, don't freak out.
I'm going to give you something
that's out of the box.
And he handed me this tincture.
And he said, my HIV and
AIDS patients use it,
and it really, really helps them
with the pain and discomfort.
And I knew I had reached
this fork in the road,
and I knew if I
didn't try something,
that I was going to have to
drop out of medical school.
And to my surprise, when
I took it, it worked.
I took it over a weekend
when I wasn't working.
And by Monday morning,
I knew it was working.
So from then on, I decided to
dedicate my career in learning
about this plant medicine.
And here I am decades later.
I integrate medical
cannabis in my patient care.
I help patients work
with other physicians,
work with their specialists,
and integrate cannabis safely.
WENDY NGUYEN: I'm also
a chronic pain survivor.
My story is just a
little different.
But when I was 5 and 12 and
14, I was actually abused.
And from the abuse, it
led to a severe trauma
to my pelvic floor.
So I've had pelvic muscle
spasms the last 20 years.
Because of the abuse too, I was
actually placed in a group home
and also a foster
home at the age of 15.
So I was diagnosed PTSD and
depression at 15 and 1/2
and was medicated at 20.
And I've tried everything.
I talked to Dr. June a lot
about this too as well.
I was put on a lot
of pain meds and put
on a lot of
antibiotics, and that
made me really, really nauseous
and sick most of the time.
So for me, my journey to CBD
is quite natural in a sense,
to where I'm just our clients
that walk into Artemis.
I've tried everything, and
nothing's really worked for me.
This is my last stop.
But I am very realistic
also about CBD,
and I know that it's not
a necessary cure-all.
For some people, it is.
But for me, it was
a gradual journey,
and it's really carefully
monitoring everything.
I have a sheet at
home to make sure
that my dosing works with
my chronic pain issues
and everything.
But I think that's how I fell
in love with CBT, because it
really increased
my quality of life.
And that's how I love Artemis,
because every one who walks in,
whether they're a pain
survivor, PTSD survivor,
I just have this incredible
connection with them.
So that's how Artemis was born.
We have a shop in
the West Village.
It's a curated CBD-only shop.
And we've been open for
about 2 and 1/2 months now.
MICHELLE PHAM: It's only a
10-minute walk from here,
right?
WENDY NGUYEN: Yes it is, yeah.
MICHELLE PHAM: Thank you for
sharing such personal stories
about how you came to be in
the work that you are today.
I know it can't be easy to share
with a big crowd of strangers
you don't know.
So in health and
wellness, I think
2019 has been a very big
year for CBD as a buzzword.
You see skin care retailers like
Kiehl's marketing CBD products.
I know that Barneys recently
opened the High End,
a luxury CBD business
out in Beverly Hills.
So I'm really
curious to know, what
is actually the
science behind CBD,
and what does it do for you?
JUNE CHIN: Sure.
I can address that.
So the cannabis plant is a
very, very complex plant.
It's a plant medicine with
over 500 unique compounds.
And THC and CBD are the most
researched and the main players
of the cannabis plant.
Now, CBD-- what's
wonderful about CBD
is it doesn't make you high.
It's a wonderful
pain reliever, anti--
muscle relaxant.
It's a muscle relaxant.
Anti-pain.
Anti-inflammatory.
Really potent anti-inflammatory.
It helps with seizures.
It has anti-tumor properties.
It also helps decrease
anxiety and uplift your mood.
So it's a really safe
part of the cannabis plant
without altering
your mind or making
you feel sedated or euphoric.
MICHELLE PHAM: Amazing.
So I'm curious--
Wendy, I went to visit you
at Artemis after seeing
that you stocked Potli.
Two of girlfriends started
a honey and CBD product out
in California, which you stock.
Candidly, I had no idea
about the science behind CBD.
I never really used to
as a product formally,
before joining
you at your store.
What are important
questions to ask
when you are shopping for CBD?
What should our
audience be asking?
WENDY NGUYEN: And
just to kind of
mentioned earlier when you
talked about Kiehl's, Kiehl's,
did launch a facial
oil and actually has--
oh, my gosh.
That's just an
example of what it
would look like if you
shot through the window.
That's not-- and I'm wearing
the exact same thing too,
so that was not--
that's just a coincidence.
I'm so sorry.
[LAUGHTER]
The reason we did
that was that we--
oh, I'll go back to your
questions too as well.
When we built the
space, we knew--
I'm actually from
the social world.
Basically, my career started
on YouTube and on blogging.
I've been a blogger and
YouTuber for about 10 years now.
I was actually one of the first
fashion-dedicated YouTuber.
And we grew our audience
to over 90 million views,
and also about five million
supporters in general.
And I was able to also find
another passion and leverage
those online websites
to the CBD world.
But the reason why we had--
going back to that photo--
the reason why we had
the window the way we did
was that we knew that
bloggers and social people
might be interested
in coming in.
So we built the window
to be very photogenic.
That was the only reason.
So a lot of people come in
requesting for that shot.
So we would literally
move the books around
to make sure that they'll get
the shot through the window.
So that's just a
sample shot that we
do for influencers or
bloggers who visit our store.
But the store itself, we
actually curate the store
so that it's very easy.
I remember when I first
got into CBD, we happened--
Colin and I happened
to be in Amsterdam.
And when I went through,
I just didn't understand
what I was looking
at, and I was really
confused most of the time.
So from that, when we came
back, I went to every store
in New York, San
Francisco, and LA,
and I still had
the same confusion.
So when we built
Artemis, we wanted
to be a very curated shop that's
really made for our clients,
really for you.
So we have a discovery wall,
which is what you see here.
And that's curated by ailments.
And we actually work with
incredible people like Dr. June
to help us curate this as well.
So it was very--
more of an easy process as
you walk through the wall.
After the discovery wall, we
have basically a education
board that we co-wrote
with Dr. June.
And the education board
would mirror the categories
on the second wall
that we have, mainly
because we wanted this to be a
very easy experience for anyone
who walks in and not
have the confusion that I
had when I first started.
The questions that you should
ask when you go into any shop
or anything like that at all.
Is that--
Honestly, I think it's
very intuitive more
than anything else.
What's in the bottle?
I think that's really,
really important.
What exactly is in the bottle?
What is the profile
that's in the bottle?
I think a common
misperception is
that all CBD tinctures and
oils are created the same,
and it's not.
It depends on the cannabinoid
profile, the terpene profiles,
and everything around it.
The compound itself-- as they
say that CBD is CBD is CBD.
The compound is the same.
But what surrounds the compound
makes it very different.
Are there other cannabinoids
in the formulation?
Are there other terpenes
in that formulation?
What's the carrier oil?
All those questions are very
natural that I think everyone
that works in the CBD
shop can answer for you.
So I think that's
very important.
Another thing is
that what we do is
that we do recommend serving
size and also dosing size,
and they should be able to
help you with that calculation
sometimes it gets a
little fuzzy and weird.
So they can walk you
through all that.
And then also, ask them,
what is the best delivery
method for you?
Inhalation affects
you very differently
from a tincture that's
taken sublingually.
That's very different from
a patch that's transdermal.
So it just really
depends on what
is it that you're looking for
and how the person at the shop
can curate the relief for you.
JUNE CHIN: Yeah, exactly.
And CBD doesn't
work for everyone.
So when patients come to
see me and they're asking,
how do I incorporate CBD
into my health and wellness,
I really look at
it in the context
of a full, holistic
medical practice.
So you have to look at the
medications that you're taking,
because CBT can interact
with the medications
that you're taking.
CBD can also elevate
your liver enzymes.
So you want to make sure that
your physician, your health
care provider, looks
at your blood work,
looks at the list
of medications,
looks at contraindications,
things that
might get in the way of CBD.
CBD can cause a
little bit of nausea
sometimes, a little
bit of loose stools.
So these are things that
we talk about when patients
want to come in and integrate
CBD with their health
and lifestyle.
MICHELLE PHAM: So I
have a quick question
to follow up on your patient
history and experiences.
Can you maybe walk
me through a case
where you've seen positive
effects on a patient,
like the before and after?
I know you do a lot of research
with children for epilepsy
and also autism.
So I'm really curious
to hear more about that.
JUNE CHIN: Sure, sure.
So one case that I can think
of is a 15-year-old boy
came into our clinic
with his parents.
He was diagnosed with
ulcerative colitis,
and he would make about
20 bathroom trips daily.
Everything revolved around
him going to the bathroom.
He didn't want to go
out and socialize.
There were certain
restaurants that he would only
go to where he knew
where the bathroom was.
And he couldn't figure
out what the trigger was.
He cut out gluten
and dairy and coffee.
He was practically not eating,
and he'd lost so much weight.
And his parents brought
him in because one
day he told his
parents that he got
some cannabis from a friend.
And he started
using the cannabis,
and remarkably, he stopped
running to the bathroom.
He was able to sleep
through the night.
Originally, he easily
got up four or five times
a night running to the bathroom.
He didn't get a
full night's rest.
So when he started
cannabis, he started
sleeping through the night.
His stomach didn't upset
him as much as it used to,
and he felt like he was
getting a life back.
And his parents knew, with
or without their consent,
he was going to
continue using cannabis.
So they brought him in so
that he can, number one,
be legal, get a legal
medical card, and number two,
get some guidance.
Because when you're getting it
from the unregulated market,
cannabis or CBD, you just
don't know what's in it.
Like Wendy had
mentioned, you have
to know what the
ingredients are.
Stuff on the street could
be laced with something.
The synthetic stuff.
There could be fentanyl.
God knows.
Any microorganisms
could be in there, mold.
So coming to a designated
shop, coming to a health care
provider is the safest way to
begin your CBD and cannabis
journey.
And that's what we did.
We helped him get a card.
He's able to take it at school.
And if he's drug
tested in any way
and it comes up positive
when he starts employment,
at least he has a chart, a
medical chart and a physician
by his side to support him.
MICHELLE PHAM: Thanks
for the responses.
I'm curious too.
And maybe for those
in the audience who
are newer to CBD, what is
the legal limit in New York?
Because you sell these
products in your stores,
but not all products are
accessible on the shelf.
So I'd be curious to hear
your perspectives about that.
WENDY NGUYEN: Yeah.
So the Farm bill passed
In December of last year.
So the legal limit
is actually 0.4%
derived from the hemp plant.
So cannabis sativa
is the parent plant.
And you get the hemp plant,
and you get the cannabis
and marijuana plant.
So for the hemp plant
side, you get rich in CBD
and just very, very
little THC, under 0.3%.
So it won't get you
high in any way.
But if you're very
THC sensitive,
then you can actually
move to a formulation
that there's no THC at all,
and that's just pure CBD.
You can travel with it too.
It's travel safe as well.
MICHELLE PHAM: So you can
travel around all the states
with this dosage.
WENDY NGUYEN: With CBD, yeah.
With under 0.3%.
MICHELLE PHAM: Got it.
So I want to move
to the next slide.
WENDY NGUYEN: God.
MICHELLE PHAM: So I am really
curious as well to understand--
I've noticed that CBD
has really been marketed
towards women in particular, as
well as in popular mainstream
culture.
Beboe over there, I think
that's a product that
heavily has a female demo.
I'm curious to understand
what you think,
what your opinions
are about that,
and whether you see the
industry moving that way.
WENDY NGUYEN: How
about you go first now?
JUNE CHIN: Sure.
So in general, I would say
women are overprescribed
and overmedicated.
One in four women are
given an antidepressant.
And this could be
females complaining
of insomnia, chronic pain.
They end up with
an antidepressant
or some anti-anxiety medication.
And I think women
as a whole, we take
care of our spouses,
our partners,
we take care of our
children, and then
we have to take
care of ourselves.
So we tend to think
outside of the box
and be more
resourceful in looking
for alternative methods,
for more natural methods.
And I think that's
why a lot of female--
a lot of my patients
are female gravitate
towards plant-based medicine.
WENDY NGUYEN: That's
actually very, very true.
A lot of my girlfriends
have actually
been calling me about CBD
because they'll go to a doctor
and they'll say, like, I
haven't sleeping correctly,
I haven't had that
much good sleep.
And for a few my friends,
they're actually new moms,
so naturally, they're not going
to get that much good sleep,
or they're just
anxious because they're
worried about so many things.
And immediately, it's
actually an antidepressant
that they're being prescribed.
So they'll call and be like,
can I look to something else?
And then we go through.
Are you breastfeeding?
Because you're not.
Then we look at the
helicopter view of everything.
But for us in the store,
because I'm there all the time
and I love being a woman,
and we have a little category
for your PMS relief
too as well, which
is not very common
in the CBD shop side.
But we created this because
we thought, honesty,
it was just fun.
When I'm bored, I wanted
to do something really
fun for our women.
So this is the most Interesting
Women in the World Kit,
mirroring the Most
Interesting Man in the World.
Was it a beer advertisement or
a commercial, whatever it is?
So the story is
that-- we actually
have a story with this.
And when people are
interested, we actually
tell the whole story.
But she must be very
busy, this woman.
So she probably is just a
little anxious at times,
and so there is a
tincture to go with that.
That's just a daily
supplement that she
can take for acute anxiety
or maybe just an acute moment
of panic attack.
Inhalation, that's one of
the fastest ways for us
to actually relieve that.
So there's a pen,
which is Beboe.
Beboe is also the
Hermés of cannabis.
Laura Jones is there
too as a gummy.
Most people like to use
that after their work
hours to help them sleep,
so that's why it's there.
She travels a lot.
Therefore, there's a
little bit of a honey stick
there for her to put it
with her tea or coffee.
She probably wears heels
a lot, so there's actually
a balm to help her with any foot
ache or backache or any aches
or injuries that she has.
Of course, and there's a little
lip product there for her too.
So anyways, you get the full
story when you're there,
and Colin tells it very well.
I tell it OK, but
he's really into it.
MICHELLE PHAM: And is Colin--
let's hear about Colin.
WENDY NGUYEN: Yeah.
So Colin is the
co-founder of Artemis.
So we started together.
He has incredible experience
in the culinary world.
He's been in culinary
for about eight years
now working at top
Michelin star restaurants.
So for him-- and his passion is
farming, growing, harvesting.
So he's really just very
invested in just the hemp
plant in general.
But for him too, when
he reads the labels
on all of the
ingredients, he actually
understands exactly what it
does for our bodies because
of his culinary background.
MICHELLE PHAM: Perfect.
So when do-- you
are the owner of
the first woman-owned,
minority-owned CBD
shop here in New York.
Historically in America,
cannabis criminalization
has led to incarceration
for many Americans.
Mainstream sentiment
has really started
to embrace marijuana,
in particular CBD,
into everyday
lifestyle products.
What are common misconceptions
people have about CBD,
and how do you think we can
combat these misconceptions
moving forward?
WENDY NGUYEN: I think I
just have a quick touch
on the decriminalization part.
I think that's a great
start, but I honestly
think that's just not enough.
Studies have shown that white
Americans take and enjoy
cannabis as much
as people of color,
but the incarceration
numbers, the possibility
to lose your employment,
housing, that does not
add up to those numbers.
So decrim is great, and
it's a really good start,
but I think we just
need to do more,
whether that's just to
imply more entrepreneurship
opportunities for those
who've been impacted,
or whether that's just to
create funds for communities
that have been impacted or
for dispensaries and companies
to actually implement just more
employment for those who've
been impacted in that sense.
But I think that's
just the best that
we can do for social
equity, is actually move
more than just the decrim side.
But when it comes
to misconception,
I think the biggest one is
what we mentioned earlier,
is that not all CBD
is created equal.
And we have plenty of
customers who come to shop,
and they'll say, I've
been taking it for a year,
and it's done
nothing for me, which
I love that question because
the best thing I can respond
is, can you please bring
in anything and everything
that you're taking
for me to look at?
And most of the time,
when we read the bottle,
it's literally hemp seed oil.
And there's no CBD in
hemp seed oil, which
is-- you can purchase that
on Amazon and basically
in bodegas everywhere.
So for us, it's just an
investigative process
to actually figure out what
is it that's not doing well
for them, and then
we can actually
curate right products
for them in that sense.
JUNE CHIN: Yeah.
The biggest misconception
that I come across
is, because CBD is
derived from the marijuana
plant, the cannabis
plant, and also hemp,
patients always ask me,
can I get addicted to CBD?
Is there a dependence?
And because CBD does not make
you high, CBD is not addicting.
In fact, the World Health
Organization recently
concluded that CBD
is non-addictive,
no withdrawal symptoms, and
it has a great safety profile.
So they actually went
further and recommended
that CBD be removed from
international drug control
because it's so safe.
So that's a really
big delineation when
you're using CBD versus THC.
A lot of patients can
use CBD during the day.
They can function.
I use CBD during the day for
my muscle aches and pains.
And you don't have to worry
about the sedating effects.
Now, THC does have
therapeutic value.
I don't want to dismiss THC.
But since we're
focusing on CBD, CBD
does have a wonderful
safety profile.
MICHELLE PHAM: So
how can you tell
whether the CBD
product you're buying
is actually what's advertised?
And what regulation,
if any, exists?
WENDY NGUYEN: Yeah.
Good question.
That's the question that
we get a lot at the shop.
So for us at
Artemis, we actually
request lab tests and COAs from
every brand that we on-board.
And for us too, the
curation is very tight,
so if we on-board
a new tincture,
we usually drop a tincture,
so then we don't basically
create consumer paralysis when
you're actually in the shop.
But we also look at profiles are
very different for everything
tincture.
So every bottle has a different
story and a different lab test
and a different profile
than another bottle is.
But most brands are
actually triple tested.
They're tested at
the farm level,
they're tested at the
extraction facility,
and they're tested
when they get bottled.
And we request for
all of that lab tests
once it enters into our store.
So that for us has
been, honestly,
the best way to
approach this industry,
is just to be as
transparent as possible.
And we share this information
to our customers and our clients
when they walk in the door.
JUNE CHIN: Yeah, absolutely.
I agree 100%.
MICHELLE PHAM: And what
about the regulation piece?
Is there anything that would
prevent someone from doing,
let's say, false advertising?
Because you have a
curated set of products
in your store, but maybe not
all stores adhere to that.
So how can you really tell?
Or is there a
resource that people
can look into to determine for
themselves for their consumer
safety?
Do of any?
JUNE CHIN: It is hard to tell.
I was at the pizza shop
the other day with my kids,
and I saw at the cashier there
was a CBD shot for energy.
And I was just looking at it.
I said, I can't believe this.
I'm at the pizza shop.
And I look at the back, and it
says cannabis sativa seed oil.
So there was no CBD in it.
And you go to your smoke
shops and you can see CBD.
And it's everywhere.
Amazon has CBD tinctures
that may or may not
have CBD in them.
So because we're in this
legal gray area right now,
it is very hard to
figure out what's
what, what's exactly in it.
So you really have to
be a smart consumer.
Look at the back of the label.
Go to the original website
for these products.
Make sure they're
third-party tested.
A lot of the reputable
brands are very transparent.
So they will show
you, seed to sale,
what exactly the process is,
the three levels of testing.
So when you get a Whole Foods
and Trader Joe's, you're
looking at the back
of your food label.
You're making sure there's
no high fructose corn
syrup and non-GMO,
things like that.
So you're going to do same
thing with CBD products.
WENDY NGUYEN: Yeah.
And I think, actually, the CBD
industry and the CBD market
is very consumer
friendly in that sense.
I took probiotics, and it
says it's for gut health.
I haven't taken it long
enough to know yet,
but I can't contact my
probiotic brand and be like,
can I see your COAs?
That's not going to happen.
Sephora sells a
lot of supplements,
and it'll say, great for
hair growth or nail growth.
CBD, usually, packaging
wouldn't necessary say that.
Usually the milligram measure is
on there, the ingredient list,
their serving size suggestion.
But they usually don't
make those type of claims
that traditionally
supplement industries would.
But again, going to Sephora and
buying those things, moon juice
or whatever it is, I think if
I ever request for any of COAs,
they would just ignore me.
But for hemp based CBD
brands, most likely,
it's already on the website.
And secondarily, if you need
it, they will email it to you.
MICHELLE PHAM: Can you
clarify for the audience
who may not know what's a COA?
WENDY NGUYEN: Oh yeah.
It's just basically lab results.
It's a Certificate
of Authenticity.
So in there, they'll show you
the amount of cannabinoids
that's in there.
Most likely there's
terpenes in there too.
They'll show you that, how
much of it that's in there.
Any toxins.
Any contamination.
Any heavy metals.
It'll show all on there too.
It's actually not too hard
to read in that sense.
MICHELLE PHAM: So to
close everything up,
I'm curious, what's the biggest
question or the most common
question that you
tend to get asked
in your daily work related to
CBD or cannabis and health?
WENDY NGUYEN: Yeah.
I think for me at the shop, it's
usually, will this get me high?
Which, it's a no.
Another question-- I think,
because everyone's so curious,
the waves of questions
are very, very different.
I end up, honestly, repeating
a lot of the answers.
And I don't mind
doing that at all.
When I was eight years
old, I had a pet rock,
and I talked to
that all the time.
So now, talking and repeating
the same thing to human beings,
that's actually very
pleasurable for me.
So I just try to say it in
different ways every time.
But in general, it's
usually do I get high?
How much should I take?
So we always recommend
micro-dosing,
just to start slow and steady.
And then we build
and we titrate up.
And then, honestly,
for us, we're
extremely, extremely
lucky because one
of our ethos at the store
is just to do no harm.
So if we can't
find you a product,
we're not going to
recommend anything for you.
If your pain level is
like a 10 out of 5,
you might need something
just a little bit stronger
than what we can offer.
So we're very, very lucky to
have partners like Dr. June
that we can actually
refer them to,
to at least getting them to the
right direction in that sense.
JUNE CHIN: So for me--
CBD has been really touted as
this magical miracle elixir.
So last year, the FDA
approved a plant-based CBD
extract to treat
children with epilepsy.
But then you look at
Budweiser, and they are
investing in a cannabis beer.
If you go to your
neighborhood cafe,
you can get a CBD
shot with your latte.
And then Sephora has
this great CBD mascara
that's supposed to thicken
and elongate your lashes.
So you're looking at this.
CBD cures anything that moves.
So it's really not the case.
CBD is a great, great
anti-inflammatory.
It can treat a lot of
things because inflammation
is the root cause of many of
our diseases and symptoms,
from migraines to
PMS to arthritis.
So the most important thing is,
when you are going to use CBD,
is to really talk to your
health care provider.
Look at the ingredients.
It's really nice to have
a place like Artemis,
a brick and mortar store where
you can go and talk to someone
and really become educated.
There's a lot of misinformation
out there, miseducation.
So I think that's really
the biggest thing.
MICHELLE PHAM: I actually
want to follow up on something
that you mentioned, Wendy.
What is microdosing?
WENDY NGUYEN: Yeah.
So from all of the
research that we've done--
I think, Doctor, you might
talk more about this too.
There's usually three levels
of dosing-- microdosing,
standard dosing, and
therapeutic dosing.
So microdosing is just
starting very slow and small.
You're talking
about 5 milligrams
to about 20 milligrams
and building up.
Standard dosing is
usually a little bit--
when you know you're
dosing already,
then you can actually
adjust to your body
and how you metabolize.
And then, therapeutic
dosing is for patients
which are much higher dosing.
So for me, for example,
on a normal day,
I usually take about 15
milligrams during the day.
And I feel great, alert.
My heart rate doesn't
come out of my chest.
I took some before I sat here,
and my heart rate's great.
And on days when I
have my pelvic spasm,
I take up to 61 milligrams.
So because I
document everything,
I know what my dosing,
so then I can actually
adjust as I go along.
JUNE CHIN: Yeah.
That's an excellent
question, Michelle.
So everyone has a different
optimal therapeutic dose.
It's plant-based
medicine, so there's
a broader therapeutic
window than, let's say,
prescription medications.
If you're on Xanax,
1 milligram, you
know it's going to give
you this certain outcome.
If you're on high blood
pressure medications,
it's going to give you
this certain outcome
with a 10-milligram pill.
But when you're looking
at plant-based medicine,
everyone's different.
Everyone's liver
enzymes are different.
Everyone's metabolism
is different.
So you really have to take
control of your own health.
You really have to journal
how much you're taking
and how it's affecting
your symptoms.
So less is more.
If you take too much
of a good thing.
Then you will get toxic.
Same thing with vitamin
A or vitamin B or iron.
If you take too much, it can
lead to nerve damage, coma,
and death.
Well, the same thing with CBD.
If you take too much,
you'll get nauseous.
If you take too much,
you can get anxious.
If you take too much,
you can get the runs.
So a little goes a
long way, and that's
where microdosing comes from.
You want to take the
optimal therapeutic dosing
by taking little bit
increments, almost
to where you can't feel it, and
then to journal your progress.
MICHELLE PHAM: Dr.
Chin, that reminds me,
you have a book that
recently came out.
So tell us more about it.
JUNE CHIN: Sure.
So this book came out in June.
And it's a really
comprehensive guide
that talks about
cannabis and CBD,
why it works, and most
importantly, how to use it.
So I think it's really great.
Even if you're not interested
in using cannabis and CBD
for your health, it talks
about plant-based medicine
and how this can become an
integrative part of your health
and wellness.
WENDY NGUYEN: One
thing I really love
about Dr. June's book
is that she actually
gives you case studies.
And she'll give you a
description of what the dosing
looks-- not the dosing, but--
yeah, the dosing, I guess.
And the cannabinoid profiles
or the terpene profile
for those particular
cases studies.
I've read a lot of
books by now about CBD,
and this is actually
one of the few
that actually
gives you real case
studies of what she's
doing, so I think
that's incredibly helpful.
MICHELLE PHAM:
Thank you so much.
So at this point,
we're going to open up
to questions on the floor.
So anybody who'd like
to ask a question,
there's a mic on this side.
AUDIENCE: So thank you.
I wanted to ask you if you
can provide some more accurate
information about what
conditions has CBD been studied
to actually cure or alleviate.
I know that generally, national
level research into cannabis
was not prevalent because
of the illegality of it.
But what has been actually
researched in terms
that we could compare to
conventional medicine?
JUNE CHIN: I get asked that
all the time, especially
by my colleagues, my fellow MDs.
If you look at PubMed, if
you look at journal articles,
there's over 20,000
journal articles
that reference cannabis,
cannabis receptors,
the pharmacokinetics behind it.
There's over 150 peer
reviewed studies.
So a lot of these studies
have been outside of the US,
unfortunately.
But there are a lot
of studies out there.
AUDIENCE: Just to follow up.
So when we look--
I'm trying to compare--
for someone suffering from
some chronic condition
and they're looking
for some remedy,
if they go to a individual
doctor, doctor you can say--
conventional medicine,
with all its deficiencies
notwithstanding,
the doctor can say,
you know, the latest
research that we
have shows that this helps
this percentage of people.
These are the
known side effects.
They appear in this
percentage of people.
Are you able to make these
claims and statements
about any of the products
that you've discussed?
JUNE CHIN: The biggest
hurdle that we have is it's
still federally illegal
for cannabis, THC, CBD.
CBD just got--
through the hemp plant
we can use as a nutraceutical
as an over-the-counter.
We know it has a lot of
therapeutic properties.
But that is our biggest hurdle
for our clinical trials.
If you want to go to
my website, my website
has a research section, and
I have every ailment and all
of the research articles
pertaining to cannabinoids
and why it might work on
a pharmacokinetic level.
So I always have--
if you're talking
to your physician,
you can always point
them to that direction.
AUDIENCE: Thank you.
MICHELLE PHAM: Yes?
AUDIENCE: Can you speak
to the interactions
between SSRIs and THC?
Also SSRIs and CBD?
JUNE CHIN: Sure.
So a lot of my patients are on
anti-depressants or on SSRIs.
Cannabinoids will affect
the serotonin receptors,
so it's very smart to
talk to your physician
about integrating it safely.
Sometimes, my patients,
especially female patients,
because of our
estrogen levels, we're
very sensitive to both THC,
and if we're on an SSRI,
it just makes it that
much more delicate.
That's why, compared to
our male counterparts,
you might find that
you reach euphoria
or you're very, very sensitive
to cannabis in general.
It's because of our
estrogen levels.
And if you're taking
an SSRI, if you've
taken it for a long time, your
brain chemistry has changed.
Your brain chemistry
has adapted to the SSRI.
Or if you're taking
anti-anxiolytic,
same thing applies.
So you want to be
very careful when
you're integrating CBD and THC.
If you take too
much, it can lead
to actually a very depressive
state or sedating state.
You want to take,
again, microdosing
with optimal therapeutic dosing.
AUDIENCE: What's known
about the effects,
both positive and
negative, on sleep?
JUNE CHIN: Sleep.
Insomnia.
My goodness.
That's a good one
because we all have it.
WENDY NGUYEN: That's the
biggest one that we have.
JUNE CHIN: So insomnia
is the difficulty
either getting to sleep
or staying asleep.
And what's beautiful
about both CBD and THC
is that it can really
help with insomnia.
So how can CBD
help with insomnia
if doesn't make you high,
if it doesn't sedate you?
CBD can actually help
calm your nervous system
through what's called your
GABA receptors in your brain.
And GABA is a really
calming neurotransmitter.
It tells your body it's time
to power down, it's time
to shut off the day, and
just basically ground you
at the end of the day.
A lot of times, my
patients will reach
for a glass of
wine or a cocktail
because they're so wired, but
they're tired at the same time.
But alcohol is actually the
worst thing that you can do,
because that's why you get up
in the middle of the night.
So with CBD, you can
take it during the day.
It helps your body
self-regulate so
that you can go into that sleep
state a little more easily.
And depending on your
formularies, the delivery
methods, you can use inhalation,
you can use tincture,
or you can use a
capsule or an edible
depending on if you
need help falling asleep
right away, in which case
you would use an inhalation
method like a vape pen.
Or if you need help
staying asleep,
then you would use a
capsule or tincture
so that you're not waking up
at 2:00 AM, 3:00 AM, 4:00 AM.
AUDIENCE: If I could follow
up, what about, then,
dependence for sleep on CBD?
JUNE CHIN: So this is published
by the National Institutes
of Drug Abuse.
This is a really nice
graph that you can look up.
CBD is not-- there's
no dependence on CBD.
But if you just
look at cannabis,
so you're looking at all the
cannabinoids, including THC,
there's a 9% dependence rate,
which is the same as caffeine,
so same as your cup of coffee.
AUDIENCE: But I'm
specifically talking
about dependence for sleep.
JUNE CHIN: For sleep?
AUDIENCE: Yes.
JUNE CHIN: Oh, needing it all
the time for sleep you mean?
Oh, so using it
regularly, like you
can't sleep without the CBD?
That's a great question.
AUDIENCE: Hypothetically.
JUNE CHIN: Yeah.
OK, hypothetically.
So what's wonderful is because--
[LAUGHTER]
What's wonderful is because
CBD is working on your GABA,
your body is self-regulating.
Your body is going towards this
equilibrium, this homeostasis.
So a lot of times, my patients
will use it for the first three
months, and then they might
use it on a Friday or Saturday
night if they've been out
and their sleep hygiene
is not the greatest.
So you're not using
it all the time.
Xanax and sleep aids
also work on GABA,
but it's more of a synthetic
way of working on GABA.
So it's the same mechanism,
but more natural.
AUDIENCE: My question
is around inflammation.
We know that, for example,
sugars are super bad for you
because it creates
cancers and da-da-da.
Now, I know that CBD is
supposed to reduce inflammation
for pain.
Does it have the same mechanism
of reducing inflammation
for all the bad stuff
that sugar creates?
I.e., will it make you live
longer through lower cancer
rates and heart attacks?
[LAUGHTER]
JUNE CHIN: The magic elixir.
So when I help
patients integrate CBD,
it's not that's it.
You still have to live
a healthy lifestyle.
So I always talk about an
anti-inflammatory diet,
cutting out the
sugar, really limiting
gluten and dairy, a more
alkaline diet, if you will.
Of course, exercise is a key.
So CBD for my patients
and for myself
really just breaks the storm.
It's sort of a parting
in the cloudy skies,
and it allows you to
exercise a little bit better.
It allows you to sleep better.
It allows you to
become healthier
so you can integrate the
other things in your life.
AUDIENCE: But is it, for
example, as efficient
as, say, blueberries, which
are also anti-inflammatory?
JUNE CHIN: I don't know
if it's more efficient,
but I think it could be a
part of your repertoire.
AUDIENCE: Hi.
[LAUGHTER]
Thank you guys so
much for being here.
I'm actually curious
about the relationship
between THC and CBD.
We know what the Farm bill--
the legal limit is 0.3% THC.
But in a future state,
perhaps, of total legalization
of cannabis, like we see
in legal states today,
the CBD that's
sold perhaps, it's
cannabis-derived
versus hemp-derived.
It has a much higher
percent of THC in it.
And I've read some things
about how that helps
activate the benefits of CBD.
So I'm wondering, are
there real health benefits,
in the future when that's
commonly more sold,
of having a higher
percentage of THC in the CBD
that we're taking?
JUNE CHIN: That's
a good question.
Because you had
asked about that too,
about it would be great
if you can incorporate THC
into your store.
WENDY NGUYEN: It's
just a little bit more.
Yeah.
But I think, for some clients
that we have, 0.3 is perfect,
and that's what
they need to go on,
and then they can
actually-- it's
very functional during the day,
and then it's enough for them
to go to sleep.
If you're a chronic
pain sufferer,
you might need a little
bit more THC for that,
and that's just something that
we cannot offer at the store.
That's why we have Dr.
June here for that.
But on the legal states,
it's usually by ratio.
It's like 100 to 1, 20 to 1,
1 to 1, or whatever it is.
In New York, it's just 0.3.
So yes, I think that would
be be nice for us to one day
get to a much higher
THC level just
to help with the microdosing
and the daily pains.
But that's something that--
do you think that
that is something
that people need in their
lives, more than 0.3,
or is 0.3 a good number
for functional adults?
JUNE CHIN: Well again,
everyone's individualized.
So sometimes my elderly patients
can't tolerate anything,
and they do really
well with CBD,
whether it's derived from
hemp or the marijuana plant.
Sometimes my patients that
have extreme pain, my cancer
patients, my epilepsy patients,
my irritable bowel disease
patients, need a
little bit of THC,
and you can activate
the CBD with the THC.
And there are ways that you
could create those tinctures
on your own.
So some of my patients
will go to Artemis,
buy their CBD tincture,
and then get a medical card
through myself and then go to
the dispensary, the designated
dispensary in New
York, and purchase THC.
So they're mixing and matching.
WENDY NGUYEN: Do you
find that the CBD is
more effective at the
higher level of THC,
or is it as effective with
the current level of THC
that we have now?
JUNE CHIN: It really
depends on the patient.
If a patient has a
broad spectrum CBD
product from the
hemp plant, they
can get some really
good mileage with that.
But it depends on their
disease and their symptoms.
Sometimes, it doesn't
touch it at all,
and you really need
THC and CBD and all
the other minor cannabinoids
and terpenes in it.
AUDIENCE: Hi.
I'm [INAUDIBLE].
Thank you so much for coming
in and just sharing your story.
A thing I'm really
curious on, there's
been so much change and
so much entrepreneurship
that's been within the cannabis
and CBD industry as a whole.
What were some of
the key challenges
that you faced-- maybe a
question more for Wendy.
Some of the key challenges
and how you overcame that when
you start a business?
WENDY NGUYEN: Yeah.
So I think for us,
when we got the space,
we started building out thinking
it was a normal business.
And it's a very special
business in that sense.
But little things
were a little harder.
Like insurance for the
building is much higher
for a CBD retail
space, even though it's
very normal in that sense.
Security is a little more
expensive in that sense too.
Also, I think the biggest
hurdle we have right now
is that merchant card is
just not available test.
So we cannot accept
a credit card.
We want too badly,
but we just cannot.
We've been going through five
different banks, major banks,
and also small community
banks in legal states as well,
and they just wouldn't take us.
So we're waiting for a beta
testing from another merchant
card service provider.
Hopefully, we'll get that.
But things like that,
we did not anticipate.
Honestly, we didn't.
We have a solve for that now,
which you see at the store,
but just little things like
that we didn't think about.
But overall, though,
when it comes
to just community
and client based,
it's been very, very welcomed.
We're usually the
first stop for people
who are very interested in CBD,
they heard the buzz about it,
and they're coming in
to ask more questions,
or the last stop
for people who've
tried everything traditional
medicine can provide,
and they haven't found relief.
And now they're here
for just more education
and more learning.
Yeah.
Thank you for the question.
AUDIENCE: Hello.
Thanks for coming in.
I had a question around either
the physiological or molecular
impact based on the
delivery method.
So if you could talk
through, briefly,
what should people be using
inhalation for, tincture,
gel cap, whatever it might be?
Maybe a high level
there would be helpful.
WENDY NGUYEN: Yeah.
That's an excellent--
JUNE CHIN: We had a great
episode on that on our podcast.
WENDY NGUYEN: Yeah.
So Doctor and I have
a podcast together,
and we talk a lot about
this, and we really love it.
I think that's actually one
of the biggest questions
that we get at the
store too, as well.
So we have a little
board at the store
that will walk you through
all of the different delivery
methods.
But just a helicopter overview.
Usually, delivery methods
are divided by the onset
time and the duration.
So for example, inhalation has
one of the fastest onset time,
but the shortest duration.
Tinctures usually have an
onset about 45 minutes or so,
and the durations
about six hours or so.
So people usually like
tinctures because they
can microdose many
times throughout the day
if they wish to.
And it's much more accurate.
You can actually dose at 5
milligrams, 10 milligrams, 20,
whatever you want to,
because of the dropper.
Edibles, because it
goes through our gut
and also our liver before
it hits our blood stream,
it takes about an hour
and a half to kick in,
and it'll stay with us for
about eight hours or so.
So if you want to
layer it together,
usually people
would do an edible
and then a pen to
help them-- the edible
will help them stay
asleep, and the pen
will help put them to
sleep, if that's the case.
Transdermals are patches.
There's usually an
emulsifier attached
to the patch that will grab
the active ingredient all
the way to your blood level.
Transdermal's the
longest because of that.
The patch can be worn
for 12 hours to 24 hours.
But it's microdosing
you very slowly
throughout the whole process.
And there's also CBD in
beauty products too as well.
For Kiehl's, there's
no CBD in there.
[LAUGHTER]
But we do have CBD beauty
products at the store.
AUDIENCE: So I'm
someone that's lived
with chronic pain for
probably about six years
after a back injury from sport
and had surgeries and PT three
times a week that I still do.
One of my last resorts
was to try CBD probably
about two months ago because
my nervous system gets
really crazy and can't sleep.
I tried tablets or the capsules.
Didn't make me feel great,
so I just stopped it
after taking two or three.
You mentioned going
into the store,
you're going to microdose as
probably a starting point.
Can you talk me through,
knowing those things,
how are you going
to stop someone
on a microdose, what
the best method to take
that would be as well.
JUNE CHIN: Sure.
So when you're taking
capsules or edibles, what
happens is your liver enzymes
metabolize the cannabis.
So it can become really
uncomfortable or too strong.
So when I have patients
starting off for microdosing,
I usually recommend either a
tincture or using the vaporizer
so you're inhaling.
Or you could use
topical as well.
With edibles and capsules,
it's a little bit harder
to microdose because,
if you're especially
new to CBD or cannabis,
you might have
a different expected outcome.
WENDY NGUYEN: Yeah.
For example, if you went to
the store, my question to you
is, what did you feel
when you were taking it?
How many milligrams
were you taking?
And what's the carrier oil
that's in the capsule as well?
Maybe if you had
a stomach upset,
it might be MCT oil that
gave you that stomach upset,
so we'll change
to something else.
You took three tablets or
three capsules you said.
AUDIENCE: I just took one--
WENDY NGUYEN: Oh, one.
AUDIENCE: --and
tried it three times.
WENDY NGUYEN: Oh, got it.
AUDIENCE: Yeah.
So I just took one each time.
JUNE CHIN: So it
might be the formula.
It might be the actual CBD
capsule, the name brand,
that is not agreeing with you.
And maybe there's
other additives to it.
A lot of times, people are
sensitive to the carrier
oil that's in there.
AUDIENCE: So have you seen--
and this is for Dr. June.
So for your patients, have
you seen patients actually
stop using THC after--
CBD, sorry-- after a
while of being on it?
And have they remained
that way, stable, balanced?
JUNE CHIN: Yes.
Again, with CBD, there
are no withdrawals.
There's no dependence.
And even-- that guy mentioned
the World Health Organization
did a report on that.
So it can be used safely.
It can we used situationally.
If patients that-- like,
for me, if I travel,
there are certain countries that
I just won't take products to,
and then I just stop taking it.
And then you'll notice a
week or two you're achier.
Maybe you'll have
more inflammation,
and I'll have to supplement
with other things.
But you can definitely
stop safely with CBD.
WENDY NGUYEN: So when
you stop with CBD,
doesn't your body just go
back to how it was before?
JUNE CHIN: No, because you're
taking away that inflammation.
This is not a Band-Aid.
You're not just
masking the symptoms.
You're actually getting to
the heart of the problem.
So you're really taking
away that inflammatory,
that chronic
inflammatory, that brewing
inflammatory response
that originally got you
in trouble in the first place.
AUDIENCE: Thank you.
JUNE CHIN: And for those that--
I always get, my doctor says
there's nothing out there.
I want to get educated.
There's an educational platform
that Joe Dolce, my business
partner, and I put together for
physicians, for pharmacists,
for dispensaries.
It's called Medical
Cannabis Mentor,
and you can look that up.
And it's well cited.
It's an online platform,
so your health providers
can take it at their own time.
So that's really a poor
excuse when I always
hear my colleagues say, well,
there's just nothing out there.
How do I learn about it?
There's not enough research.
And that's just simply untrue.
AUDIENCE: Hi.
Thank you for coming.
And thank you, Michelle,
for organizing.
It's been great.
Can you please tell us more
about the negative sign
effects of CBD?
And a second question
is, how do you see
the FDA regulating this space?
Because it seems like a little
bit the Wild West right now.
How do you see the FDA
playing a big role in there?
JUNE CHIN: I think
it's challenging
because this is unprecedented.
Here we have this plant-based
medicine that people
have been using for centuries.
So we have the medicine
first, and now we're
trying to backtrack
and create it--
I just fit it into a
pharmaceutical model.
So that's the challenge
that the FDA has.
We're sort of backpedaling.
And in terms of side effects,
if you take too much CBD,
you can get a stomach upset.
You can get nauseous.
Your liver enzymes can increase.
You can get runny stools.
Sometimes, patients
that take too much CBD
will get anxious because it
is energizing at larger doses.
But again, that's the same
thing with other neutraceutical
supplements.
Just because it's natural, that
doesn't mean it's harmless.
Again, I mentioned vitamin
A or vitamin B with niacin.
A lot of doctors will
prescribe that for cholesterol.
But if you take too much,
you'll get dizzy and confused,
and you can get nerve damage.
If you take too much
iron supplements,
it increases your risk of
cancer and heart disease.
So it's important to talk to
your health care provider,
take small doses,
and really keep
track of how it's making
you feel with your symptoms.
AUDIENCE: A quick followup.
So the negative side effects
are always with high doses.
There are no side
effects with microdosing?
JUNE CHIN: There are less side
effects, less adverse effects
with microdosing.
I can't make a blanket
statement and say
there are no side effects,
because everyone's different.
Some of my patients get funny
on Tylenol or magnesium.
But if you take smaller doses,
there's less side effects.
There's a really great
article in "Forbes" recently,
and it talked about a study
that-- a preclinical study,
so they did it on rats,
about CBD killing these rats
and shooting up liver enzymes.
Well, these rats were given 3
to 10 times the recommended dose
of CBD.
So of course, if
you're over-consuming,
you're going to get
these side effects.
So the key is less is more.
Start slow.
Start low.
WENDY NGUYEN: They
tested on five rats.
One made it, but the--
[LAUGHTER]
Sorry.
My rock cat talking.
But the four, they did--
yeah, they gave them
2,500 milligrams.
JUNE CHIN: Yeah,
10 times the dose.
WENDY NGUYEN: Yeah.
And it's like, humans
really don't take that much.
JUNE CHIN: Yes.
And the rats that were given the
low to moderate dose did fine.
WENDY NGUYEN: OK.
There you go.
AUDIENCE: Thank you.
[APPLAUSE]
