

### Relationship With God:

### Faith & Prayer

### By

### Jesus (AJ Miller)

### Session 1

Published by

Divine Truth, Australia at Smashwords

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Copyright 2015 Divine Truth

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### This ebook is a transcript of a seminar delivered by Jesus (also known as AJ Miller) on 11th May 2013 in Murgon, Queensland, Australia, as part of the Relationship with God series. In this seminar Jesus describes the qualities and attributes of faith; that faith is based upon facts, faith is based upon past experiences, how to develop faith through experimentation, and the most important areas in which to gain faith.

### Reminder From Jesus & Mary

### Jesus and Mary would like to remind you that any document produced by Divine Truth containing any information from Jesus, Mary or any other person includes only a portion of God's Truth that they have personally discovered.

### It does not and cannot contain the entire of God's Truth since God's Truth is infinite and humankind will forever continue to discover more of God's Truth as we progress in receiving more of God's Love.

### Please remember that due to these limitations information contained within this document may need to be revised in the future.

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Table of Contents

### Faith & Prayer: Session 1 Part 1

1. Faith is based on past experiences, God's Laws and facts

1.1. An example of the Law of Gravity and the Law of Aerodynamics

1.2. The direct relationship between faith, law and facts

1.3. An example of the Law of Gravity and the Law of Aerodynamics (continued)

1.3.1. Discovering the laws underlying controlled flight

1.3.2. Discovering principles of the Law of Gravity

1.4. Characteristics of faith

2. Discovering facts without prior assumptions

2.1. Knowing laws as certainty

2.2. Having inspiration to discover laws

2.3. Both science and faith are based on facts

2.4. The importance of continuing to seek facts

2.4.1. An example of treating physical sickness

2.5. AJ's experience with discovering facts about God's Laws

2.6. Discovering the laws underlying controlled flight (continued)

2.7. AJ's experience with discovering facts about God

2.8. Focusing on God rather than God's Laws

3. Faith is based upon facts (continued)

3.1. Discovering facts is a process that involves making mistakes

3.2. Faith is not based upon opinions

3.3. Discovering facts is a joyful process

3.4. Discovering facts involves personal experience

3.4.1. An example of listening to Divine Truth

3.5. God is constantly presenting us with facts

4. Our actions are driven by a belief that they will be of personal benefit

4.1. Rebelling against God's Laws

4.1.1. An example of being angry with the Law of Attraction

5. Experimenting to gain faith

5.1. Finding incentive to experiment with spiritual and soul-based laws

5.1.1. Determining how long we spend discovering new laws

6. Solomon's Padgett message regarding Divine Love, faith and prayer

6.1. Focusing on faith and prayer

7. The experience of love

8. Faith and prayer lead to love

8.1. The benefits of focusing on discovering the laws of Divine Love

8.2. Gaining faith by experimenting with the laws of Divine Love

### Faith & Prayer: Session 1 Part 2

9. Faith is based on past experience, God's Laws and facts (continued)

9.1. Readily accepting physical laws that are obvious

9.2. Difficulty in accepting undiscovered laws such as interstellar transportation

10. Gaining faith by experimenting with the laws of Divine Love (continued)

10.1. An example of a participant who is disappointed with her previous experiments

10.2. Faith is not innate within our souls and needs to be developed

10.3. Desiring God to take our pain away blocks a connection with God

11. Necessary areas in which to develop faith for a relationship with God

11.1. God exists

11.2. God loves

11.3. God's Laws are loving

11.3.1. God loves me

11.4. God's Attributes and Qualities

11.5. Jesus is trustworthy

11.6. Desire, longing and prayer would be natural if we had faith in God

11.7. The truth about the human soul

11.8. Jesus is trustworthy (continued)

11.9. The truth about the human soul (continued)

12. An exercise to examine and build faith

12.1. Faith carries us over false beliefs about love

13. Closing words

Faith & Prayer: Session 1 Part 1

Welcome today. The plans are that we talk to you about Faith today and tomorrow we'll be talking about the subject of Prayer. So they are the two topics we'd like to discuss with you today and tomorrow.

1. Faith is based on past experiences, God's Laws and facts

What do you feel faith is? Have you given it much thought? The way I see faith is probably different to the way most people see, faith. I see faith in every single aspect of our day-to-day life. Most of us have learned faith by the time we are three years of age, in fact. Not just faith in God, but we have faith in many other things.

For example, most of us, by the time of three years of age have some faith that somebody is going to feed us when we are hungry. Why do we have that faith? Usually it is because of the past experience that we have been fed every time that we were hungry. And so after a while we get to the point where we realise that we don't need to worry about hunger so much, particularly in the Western world.

Now of course there are people in other countries who do not have that faith, and the reason why they do not have that faith is because they have not had the experience of being fed every time they were hungry. And because of that they don't necessarily have a faith that they are going to be fed whenever they are hungry. Can you see straight away from that little illustration that faith is based upon what has happened to us previously, to a degree? [00:06:27.07]

1.1. An example of the Law of Gravity and the Law of Aerodynamics

Let's say you're three or four years of age, and you decide to jump up into the air. Now all of you have a faith that you're going to come down again. You don't know the Law of Gravity, in the sense of understanding it technically and scientifically, but you do know it from a personal experience. You know what the Law of Gravity is going to do because by that age you have become so used to the fact that every time you jump you're going to go down rather than up into space.

Now imagine a life where you were worried about jumping for a moment. "I can't jump today! I can't jump today! I might fly out into the universe if I jump today!" Can you see that faith is based upon some kind of law as well? So in the case of the Law of Gravity, what happens is that we have faith that whenever we jump we will return to Earth, and we know it as a certainty. And the reason why we know it as a certainty is because it is one of God's Laws. One of the laws of the universe is the Law of Gravity, and so the Law of Gravity will determine what happens when we jump.

We come to trust these laws, these physical laws in particular, every single moment of our lives, without any thought whatsoever. They become a part of our very existence in fact. Every one of them requires our faith to a degree but because we now know it as a certainty, we don't consider it to be faith.

Now if you look at what has happened historically with regard to the Law Of Aerodynamics; how many of you decided when you were children that you wanted to flirt with the Law of Aerodynamics, and you strapped a pack to your back, or something like that, or tried to jump off a building with something above you that would hopefully flare out and catch you by the time you hit the ground? How many of you have tried that? And how many of you are men? (Laughter) Quite a number, yeah. That's normally the way it is.

Well I used to do that too. I'm very lucky to be alive actually in a lot of ways (laughs) because I loved the whole concept of flight ever since I was a child. So what I did was I made this kite and then I'd jump out of a tree, and it's fortunate that actually the trees weren't very big where I grew up otherwise I would have probably come to a lot more grief than I actually came to.

I was fascinated too by balance and those kinds of things. I remember seeing as a child the whole concept of somebody doing a tightrope across Niagara Falls. Did you ever see those pictures? When I saw those pictures I was just fascinated. I decided I wanted to be a tightrope walker. So what I did was I got up onto our fence, which was one of those old wooden fences with wooden slats about six foot high, and I got out one of my father's bars, which was a steel rod bar that was about twenty or thirty feet long, and I was balancing with this bar, walking along the fence. And of course I fell off and broke my wrist. So that's what happened to me. [00:10:03.01]

So like I said, most of us have probably experimented with these kinds of things - flirting with the laws. If you think about the Law of Aerodynamics, what caused man to decide to try to build a flying machine?

Participant: Birds?

The birds. Watching the birds. Most of us, when we're little, we watch it with fascination. It's like this underlying fascination. And inside of us builds this feeling, this feeling starts to develop of, "I would like to be able to do that." There are all sorts of reasons why we have that feeling when we look at a bird. For example we have the feeling of freedom and many people who become pilots have that sensation, where they love the sense of freedom that they feel when they're piloting.

So many people historically decided to flirt with the laws to find out whether there were any laws that controlled flight. Now obviously the fact that birds could do it had a huge impact upon our choices - the fact that we knew something was doing it meant that we could have some trust that it could be done. And of course that makes faith a lot easier if somebody illustrates that it can be done before we actually go ahead and do it. That helps us have a lot more faith that we can personally do it.

Participant: I wonder if we're influenced by the fact that in dreams sometimes we fly?

Yes, certainly. There are all these kinds of events that do occur in the sleep state. When we're asleep obviously our body separates from our physical body and we are in the spirit world in that state, and in the spirit world we can fly of course; we can move about quite easily. So there is feeling or a desire to do it when we're awake, which obviously has influenced mankind for a long time.

The earliest recorded time in history where there was some kind of reference to flight was 1700 years before my first century life, 1700 years B.C. And my suggestion to you is that it happened a lot earlier than that, but that was the first thing that we actually have a record of now. But if you look through history, we flirted with kites and then we flirted with gliders and then we flirted with balloons, and then we flirted with what was called "lighter than air" flights, which was all the balloon type flights, and then we started flirting with "heavier than air" flight, and learning how to control that.

This is where people like Whitehead and the Wright brothers and other people like that in history were flirting with the laws that control flight, the laws that control the three or four ways in which you can manoeuvre a craft. And as they did this, they were building on their knowledge of law.

1.2. The direct relationship between faith, law and facts

There is direct relationship between faith and law. I'm not talking now about man's laws, I'm talking about the laws of the universe - the laws that govern our very existence. So for example, with the Law of Gravity, which most of us are aware of, and we become aware of at a very young age - that is a law that is a fact. It's a fact. It's one of the scientific facts of the universe. The fact is that every single law that we have developed trust in, is based upon facts that we can measure scientifically, that we have some kind of justification for believing in. Otherwise we wouldn't believe it, would we? We wouldn't accept it. [00:14:23.11]

1.3. An example of the Law of Gravity and the Law of Aerodynamics (continued)

Now with the guys who started working on the other laws, the Laws of Aerodynamics - they are all laws, they are all facts; it's the science of discovering what laws govern the manoeuvring of a vehicle that is in the air i.e. flying. These are laws all based around facts; things that we actually know. Now we didn't know them at a time. For example, it wasn't known until quite recently in recorded history that gravity could be measured in terms of its acceleration. So it had a speed and acceleration that would occur through gravity on the Earth and that every mass would have a different value of gravity, depending on the size of the mass. Those kind of things were discovered fairly recently, in the last five or six hundred years. And it was only by people doing what we now call experiments, that we came to understand the laws involving the Law of Gravity, for example.

If are against experimenting with your life then I suggest you're not going to find out many laws of the universe, and you'll be reliant on other people who are more courageous than yourself, who are willing to experiment. My suggestion though is to have the courage to engage in experiments because the more we experiment with life, the more we begin to learn about the laws that govern our life. As we learn the law that governs our life, we then come to see those laws as facts and once we see them as facts we have some faith in what will happen in our future based on those laws.

Faith isn't this thing that most religions tell you it is. Most religions tell you that you have just got to believe and there's no reason behind it. Or you've just got to accept it, and there's no proof, when there is no proof. That is what they will tell you. And what I am suggesting to you is that if we look at our physical life, we can see that this is not true. The reality is in our physical life we have learned different laws, through a process of experimenting and finding out eventually that there are facts that involve the process of discovery of law. And these facts determine what we can have faith in, in the future.

So for example, with the Wright brothers, with their design of their aircraft, they realised that if they had this shape of a wing that would cause more air to flow over the top and therefore be thinner than underneath, then it would create lift. There was the principle of lift. And this was a law that they discovered through the design of gliders; before they actually made their own aircraft that was powered, they designed gliders. And there were many experiments for almost a hundred years before they came about that had proven these facts. So from their perspective, building an aircraft was not something that was beyond imagination. All they realised is that they understood the law.

Now when we were children, do you remember those little helicopter things that you could buy? I don't know if you remember; they're usually made of plastic with a handle and you pull the handle and it spins this blade that's got a certain shape and all of a sudden the blade takes off and flies around. Yes? You remember those? I suppose they don't have these toys much anymore but anyway. I'm showing my age now. But you pull it and off it flies and lands down, and it's fascinating for children to watch all of these laws in action. And so when most children get one of these devices at a very young age, like the Wright brothers, they go, "Wow!" There's the spark of their interest in some of the laws.

1.3.1. Discovering the laws underlying controlled flight

In the case of the Wright brothers they wanted to discover more about the laws because there were certain things that were not discovered, and that was how to manoeuvre and control flight. There were plenty of people who were going up in hot air balloons and then coming down somewhere where they didn't necessarily want to come down at some point in the future. They were comfortable with the whole concept of a hot air balloon flying, because of the lighter than air concepts, but they didn't know how to control their flight, and man, after that point in time, wanted to focus on control of flight. So this is where a lot of experiments were done by Whitehead, the Wright brothers, and others who were attempting to control flight.

Now the very first flight only went for something like nine seconds or twelve seconds - I can't remember the actual figure - and they only went for something like ninety feet. But it was a controlled flight where they could manoeuvre the craft. Within two years or three years or so, they were flying twenty minutes at a time, with their craft and flying up to forty-five or fifty kilometres in terms of distance.

Do you know how far we fly now? Well we fly all around the world, don't we? And there are aircraft now that have eight hundred and sixty plus passengers flying at nine hundred kilometres per hour for fifteen thousand kilometres: so that transition has been made in just over one hundred years; just over one hundred years for that entire transition. But all of that transition was based upon laws and facts.

Now the people who were so-called visionary could vision the future of this. So you had people like Leonardo Di Vinci, for example, who would construct or design or draw flying machines. Now this was hundreds and hundreds of years prior to it actually occurring. So they had dreams that it could occur, and imagination, but it was not based upon some kind of weird science, or some kind of disturbed mind that caused them to believe all those things. It was based on what they could observe as facts.

1.3.2. Discovering principles of the Law of Gravity

So what I'm trying to get at here is that there is a direct relationship between faith and facts; a direct relationship between faith and laws. Now on Earth we haven't always known of the law, and so what we have had to do is we've had to imagine certain things and then try experiments that would determine what the law would be. And then once we measured the results of these experiments, we decided to experiment some more with greater experiments and bigger experiments but using the same law. So there was a focus on understanding the law. [00:22:32.13]

We determine the Law of Gravity is a law by the time we're three years of age; we are fully conscious of its operation even though we are not necessarily aware of the intricacies technically regarding the law. So most of us we wouldn't know, for example, when we're three that the acceleration of the Law of Gravity on Earth is 9.8 meters per second per second. We wouldn't know that. And most of us as adults are probably not that aware of that either! (Laughs) Unfortunately. You were probably told that sometime in your history when you were at school.

Now we know that because it's been measured - the acceleration of the Law of Gravity. We know that. We also know that it's developed by the differentials in mass. So we know that if something's bigger it has a greater gravity than something that's smaller. This is why when they calculated all the calculations regarding going to the moon, they were aware that they'd be able to make a step and sort of fly through the air a bit before they hit the ground because the mass of the moon is much, much lower than the mass of the Earth, and so therefore there is less gravity. And because of the calculations of the relativity between mass and gravity, we can actually work out the actual gravity of any mass. So there are a whole lot of scientific principles and technical principles associated with knowing the law that defines gravity and the relationship between that law and mass itself, and the creation of gravity from mass.

And of course we know that every material has a different mass so if something's made of a gaseous ball, for example, it's going to be much, much lighter and therefore have less gravity than something that's made of a solid core that is much heavier, and will therefore have more gravity associated with it. These principles can all be calculated.

We are still in fact coming to understand gravity. Did you know that? There is still quite a lot scientifically that we do not know about gravity. For example, there's a measurement of what is called dark matter that determine gravitational fields, that's matter that we cannot measure using any normal techniques. But we know it's there.

Now these are all principles where we're still coming to understand the Laws of Gravity. And of course it also brings us to the Laws of Gravity and how it affects light. So how it affects the things we see. It actually curves light if the mass is great enough.

So for the little child who is three, if we just go down that one level of investigation of "let's find out everything that we can possibly find out about gravity," by the time they're a scientist at forty, they'd still be working through many, many things that they need to know about this one single force or law. It's very different knowing the technicalities of something, is it not, compared to actually being involved in its operation? So the child at three is involved in the operation every time it jumps into the air, but it doesn't know the technicalities of how it affects the operation of the universe at that point. There are more things to discover. [00:26:05.14]

And so it all with all of God's Laws in fact. All of God's Laws are facts, but the more we investigate them, the more we realise we don't know, and that is generally the case with most scientific discoveries. And it's also the case with most of these principles that we can discover in terms of physical principles.

1.4. Characteristics of faith

Now why have I raised all of that in a discussion about faith do you think?

Participant: I was just getting a feeling of my own soul's gravity and magnetism and how it relates to Law of Attraction and God's Laws and experimenting.

Alright, you're way too technical for me already. I'm sorry! (Laughs) Why do you think I have presented this firstly as an introductory concept to the term of faith, do you think?

Participant: That we gain faith through experience?

We gain faith through experience and experimentation, yes. Is there anything else that we can gain from this analogy?

Participant: That it's not like wishing or a hope that there's something that exists - it's a fact, it's proof, it's a law.

So faith isn't blind, it's not a wish, it's not a hope. Yep, I agree with all of those things. Joy?

Participant: The fact that it's based on facts and so there are so many more observable facts, whereas I know I have lived my life just in opinions, which are not the same as observable facts.

Exactly. So it is very different to an opinion. So these are all things that faith isn't. It's not an opinion, and it's not a belief. Not a belief. Not an opinion.

For instance there are many people historically who believed that the Earth was square - that's a belief. We discovered through circumnavigating the Earth that it's round - that's a fact. There's a big difference between belief and fact. So we need to understand the difference. It's no good believing in something that's false because that's not a fact.

People say that you can have faith in something's that false. I don't agree. That's not faith, that's wishful thinking. It's not the same as faith. Completely different. And I'm not here to encourage you into wishful thinking, that's not what we want to do here.

So these things - blind, wishful, hopeful thinking, opinions, beliefs - these are all things that are not the domain of faith. Faith does not accompany these things. They're all different kinds of qualities - some of which are good, in other words having hope is a great thing; and some of which are not necessarily good, like when we have a belief in something's that completely false it can mislead a lot of our life if we're not careful. So that's not helpful. So I'm not suggesting to you that you have faith in things that are not based on facts. This is very important to understand. [00:29:57.21]

2. Discovering facts without prior assumptions

Participant: I see the analogy that you're starting to paint that in God's Universe, He and She has created all these laws.

Exactly. Let's say at the beginning we don't even know if it's a He or a She.

Participant: No.

And we don't even know if it's a God. (Laughs)

Participant: Exactly.

If we really start properly.

Participant: Yeah. And in my investigation on the scientific side as opposed to the spiritual side, I've found that when I start to investigate the laws I think you touched on it, that you can spend forty years just trying to understand gravity, and I have a little sort of aphorism that everything that God creates is infinite.

But even that might be a supposition right at the beginning.

Participant: Yeah. Exactly, that's just something I intuitively feel.

Yep.

Participant: That He doesn't, or She doesn't, have limits.

That again is another supposition! (Laughs)

Participant: Is an assumption.

Can you see what we do? I know you're getting to a point, Graham but we often start discussing matters and we make a lot of suppositions, many of which we personally might feel that we have established but the audience themselves may not have established, the person who is listening to us may not have established these particular things.

Can you see with every discussion unless there is some establishment of factual evidence, it really is pointless to continue the discussion, isn't it? It's like saying, "You've just got to trust that I'm talking about gravity." Now with gravity it's easy because it's a physical thing that we can all experience. We jump up, we fall back down to the Earth - we've experienced that in that moment. Obviously there's a law in place that controls that, and it's a fact. It controls it a certain way on Earth every single time, and that's a fact.

You know how in the 1800s a lot of people used to strap feathers to their arms and then flap and hope to fly? Well a scientist in 1800 finished up calculating through mathematical formula that it's impossible for a person to strap a heap of feathers to themselves and try to lift their own weight off the ground through the power of their own arms. Every single thing that becomes fact can be justified through some kind of mathematical or scientific process.

Is there a point you wanted to make, though?

Participant: So if we discover the facts relating to these laws, we get more faith through experience of those laws.

Yes. Well, I want to take the analogy of faith a lot further than that actually because we want to break it up. So when we talk about faith, and this is where I'm leading towards, we want to see what is involved with faith completely, not just this initial discussion.

2.1. Knowing laws as certainty

So what I'm illustrating firstly is that with regard to physical laws, most of us have quite a strong and in fact such a developed faith with these physical laws that we know them as certainty. In other words, faith is no longer necessary because now we know for certain that that belief is true. We don't know everything about it necessarily but from an experiential perspective we do know that's it is true or certain, and we have complete trust in its operation - so much so that we're willing to send people from the Earth 250,000kms away from the Earth to the moon and back again knowing that they'll be able to come back. And that the astronauts who were coming back had complete confidence in the laws knowing that those laws would bring them back home as long as they engaged the laws correctly. [00:34:28.03]

Now in their case they had to engage lots of laws. They had to engage the laws about what they would be able to do in terms of manoeuvring the craft, how they land on the moon, how they would exit the moon. How they'd land back on Earth. They had to engage all the laws and principles of sling shotting around and acceleration; principles of gravity controlling all of these particular things. There were huge amounts of laws that were engaged in one operation and yet we could do it with complete confidence that it was going to come about - it would be certain.

2.2. Having inspiration to discover laws

Participant: AJ, the facts start in your mind, don't they? And then the faith comes from your soul?

Well this is one thing I want to talk about is that: before the Law of Gravity and the Law of Aerodynamics were discovered, somebody had some kind of feeling that they were able to be discovered. They might not have known the Laws of Aerodynamics, for example, but they had a feeling that they could be discovered. They didn't even know all the Laws of Gravity, they didn't know that they could measure it, for example, but somebody had a feeling that that could be discovered too.

So where did this feeling come from? Now these feelings don't just come from our mind, because there are all sorts of places they come from. Even little children have these feelings and they don't necessarily have a developed mind enough to engage those particular feelings. So these feelings come from other places obviously - let's call it our soul, shall we, because we don't even know whether we've got one, do we? (Laughs) If we really approach the universe around us as a completely blank slate, we don't know anything when we begin, and there are things that we learn through the process of experimenting and flirting, if you like, with the laws that are involved, discovering the laws. That's the key part. There is a relationship between this and faith and then I want to talk about spiritual faith.

2.3. Both science and faith are based on facts

Now Graham made a comment just earlier that he felt there was a separation between science and faith. I cannot agree with that. I believe that there is no separation between any scientific principle and faith and spiritual development and physical development and soul-based development. All of them to me are all based upon law. That means they are all based upon facts. Now if they're all based upon facts, it's just a matter of whether I'm willing to engage an experiment to discover the facts, that matters. And if I'm not willing to engage the experiment, then it's highly likely that I won't discover all the facts. But if I'm willing to engage the experimentation process, then it is highly likely that I will discover more and more and more facts as a result. Those facts will lead me to having faith about new things that I didn't have faith about before, and then I have a desire to develop and find out about those facts that govern the operation of those particular things. [00:37:56.04]

2.4. The importance of continuing to seek facts

So I see it as all aspects of our life are completely based upon facts. And in fact, if it's not based upon facts or reality, my suggestion to you is that it's just an opinion, it's blind and wishful thinking, and it's pointless as well. You're far better off not having an opinion rather than holding on to an opinion that is not based upon a fact. Often a person who doesn't have an opinion is willing to receive the fact before a person who has a pre-conceived opinion.

This is a problem that we find with most of our development on the planet. We finish up developing a certain process down a certain path and then everybody starts believing that's the fact, and that's the only fact, and as a result we stop investigating. We stop investigating the new facts, the new truths, the laws that govern these particular things. And when we stop investigating what do we do? We stagnate - not only just ourselves \- the whole of humanity stagnates in different areas as a result of the whole of humanity having a concept that is fixed in a certain belief system that is not necessarily a fact.

2.4.1. An example of treating physical sickness

To give you an example of that; the majority of the medical profession today will tell you that every physical sickness has a physical cause and scientists are constantly focused on finding the causes of physical diseases so that they can fix them with a physical solution. How many of you are sick? And these physical solutions do help, do they not? Temporarily, many times? But we still grow old and we still die anyway, so that doesn't seem to be stopped at any point. Although scientists are even working on that now - how to fix up that gene that's in our body, the death gene, that causes our body to go into this place of not replicating its cell structure properly and dying. They're even working on that because there are physical laws associated with that too.

But if we examine all of these physical laws, we are so focused on the physical that we forget the concept in our mind that there might be other laws that govern this; other laws that we're not aware of that are governing what's really going on.

Now if we're not a blind person who has a lot of wishful thinking and we believe in things and have opinions about things that might be true or might not be true, and we stop worrying about all of that, then we would be willing to engage in experiments to find out the truth about the matter. However, if all of us collectively decide at a certain point in time that we've already found out all the truth that we need to know about those particular things, or we all believe that such truth is not available at all, then you can see that no one is going to stretch the limits, and move into a new domain of law that is previously undiscovered?

2.5. AJ's experience with discovering facts about God's Laws

Now the reason why I love the scientific principles is because I'm a scientist myself. The trouble is on Earth at the moment there's no university that you can get the kind of degree that I'm interested in. Now the reason why I say that is because I have always, all of my life, been interested in the principles governing the laws that control the individual person, and what happens to the individual person.

Quite early in my life in the first century, I understood these principles of the Law of Gravity. While I did not know that gravity was 9.8 meters per second per second in terms of its acceleration, I did understand the principle of gravity and I saw that as a fact, as a law. And then I knew that there were laws that we had not yet discovered, but I saw all of those laws were attributed to the physical existence of man. And I started thinking - what if there's a whole other existence of man? What if there's a spiritual existence of man? And by spiritual I didn't use that term - I asked what happens when a physical body dies, what happens if life continues on? We now call that the spiritual life of man.

Then I went even further and said, what happens if there's this thing underneath all of these physical and spiritual things, and I came up to term the soul that many people before me had called the soul.

My interest wasn't generated by, "It all came up in my mind, where I thought maybe there is such a thing as a soul". I just looked at all of the writing that I could read in the first century; all of the different things that I read in the prophets of the Bible and things like that, and I thought, hmm, maybe there is a soul too and maybe there is a spirit body as well as a physical body.

While I knew there were physical laws, it made sense to me that there must also be spiritual laws, and there must also be laws that govern the soul. That's a fairly logical supposition, isn't it? Given the fact that we all are bound by physical laws, it would make sense that if there is a spiritual existence or a spiritual part of man that there must be whole set of laws that govern that. And it would also make sense that if there is a soul-based part of man, that there must be a whole set of laws that govern that.

And so I set about, through my relationship with God, to discover those laws. That's a pretty logical decision, don't you think? It's amazing how many of us don't decide to do it though. But it is a very logical decision... and I know, Rob, you just said courageous, to me it didn't feel like any courage whatsoever, because I just felt like, well no, I've trusted these physical laws all of my life, why would I not trust there would be other laws governing these other parts of us? Of course it makes sense logically. [00:45:07.18]

So there are laws that govern these other parts of us, and it just requires that people set about trying to find them, doesn't it? Like being willing to undertake the experiments that finish up finding these particular laws that govern them.

Participant: I could accept that if there are physical laws, there are spiritual laws and soul laws, but what I can't get to is how did you discover from physical to spiritual to soul?

Exactly, it's a very good question. And the answer is really simple. I realised that if there was so much law there had to be somebody who created them. So all of those things told me that if there were laws that governed my physical existence, which I could see in operation all the time, and I could feel in operation all the time, and I could engage with complete trust. I then assumed that there must the same for the spiritual and soul-based conditions. I thought this is proof, and in fact to me it is one of the major proofs, of the existence of God. Because theoretically, if God didn't exist, then we live in an anarchy-based universe, and in an anarchy-based universe there would be no laws, theoretically. The fact that there are laws that govern our universe tends to indicate that there was a person who formulated these particular laws. Do you see the relationship? Most people don't see the relationship actually, I feel. Most people don't understand that we are governed by laws that are solid and firm. In fact in our country, if you think about it, here in Australia, we have hundreds and thousands of laws. Who created them?

Now most of them don't govern even our physical existence, most of them. They are just figments of our imagination but they do control our lives because we all agree to observe them. In the case of physical, spiritual and soul-based laws, what I observed was that whether we chose to observe these laws or not, we were forced into observing them. So the person who decides to step off a cliff without the aid of aerodynamics found that gravity had its effect. It was an immutable Law of God, it was something that would not and could not be changed under any circumstance unless there was a higher law, which negated its effect.

2.6. Discovering the laws underlying controlled flight (continued)

So in man's case at the moment, the Law of Gravity can be negated through these Laws of Aerodynamics. And when I say negated it's not like the Law of Gravity ceases to operate; the Law of Gravity continues its operation but the Law of Aerodynamics, being a powerful law in itself, can overcome the forces of gravity under certain circumstances, and all we had to do was discover the circumstances. Somebody had to do a heap of experiments, sometimes at the result of the loss of their own life, in order to discover the circumstance.

Do you know with the Wright brothers were never married? Both Orville and Wilbur Wright didn't get married, they didn't have children, and they made an agreement with their father that they would never fly together because they had all this knowledge about the Law of Aerodynamics and they thought if both of us die at the same time then the development of these laws would all be haltered or made stagnant. So they decided instead to have one fly one time, one fly the next time, one fly the next time and so forth, and there was only one time in their entire life when they flew together.

They did have accidents by the way. There was a time; a couple of years after their first flights, when I think it was Wilbur had quite a large accident. He was flying with a passenger and his passenger died. So it's not like they didn't have trouble in the process of the discovery of these laws and putting them into application. But if you think about it, they were willing to engage the experiments. [00:49:57.21]

2.7. AJ's experience with discovering facts about God

Now what I'm suggesting is, it makes sense if there are laws that govern the physical universe they had to have come from some source. There has to be something that created them. It also made sense to me that the same source that created the physical laws probably also created the spiritual laws that govern our existence. And the same source that controlled our spiritual existence also created the laws that controlled our soul. It made sense to me that that would be the same source.

Then I made one assumption, and it's a very simple assumption. What if that source is good? And what if that source wants to share the truth about all these laws with me? And then I started going, ah, maybe my better option was to stop trying to find the individual laws and to focus on the source of them first because the laws involving the source would actually probably tell me a lot about all the other laws. So from that time on I focused my attention in finding out the laws that govern my connection with the source.

2.8. Focusing on God rather than God's Laws

So can you see from a logical perspective, it makes complete sense in your life to firstly experiment with the laws that govern your interaction with the source of all laws than it does to actually experiment with the laws that that source has created?

Now what mankind does, and we've become addicted to doing this by the way, is we've decided to forget about the source because most of us believe that such a connection with the source, where the source wants to tell us everything, is not possible. We've told ourselves a belief and in the process of telling ourselves this belief, we've closed down all investigation or experiments into that, and we've given up the process of experimenting in that particular area. Instead what we've done is we've focused more of our attention on trying to discover the laws themselves.

Now given an eternal and everlasting and infinite universe, which science has now discovered is continuously expanding, it would make sense that if it's continually expanding and it's infinite, that it would make sense that the laws that are created within this universe are probably also, if not expanding, already infinite in number. And I don't know about you, but if I spent forty years studying the Law of Gravity, and then forty years on the Law of Aerodynamics, and then forty years on who knows what other laws I might be discovering, can you see my life might be chewed up pretty rapidly? Particularly my life on Earth. [00:54:03.24]

Then let's say I pass into the spirit world, which I know exists, but let's not assume that it exists, because most people don't assume that it exists; for most people there's only eighty years for most people to discover most of these laws. So what do they do? They go, "That's all a waste of time, I might as well just have some fun!" And this is where a lot of our viewpoints of life come from - this idea that it's impossible for us to discover everything so why bother trying to discover anything? Why not just live in it? And many of us have chosen to do that actually. Many people on the planet choose to do that.

But I'm suggesting that if the physical laws are infinite in nature, the spiritual laws are infinite in nature - it would make sense that that's the case - and the soul-based laws might be infinite in nature too, then boy, that's going to be a lot of my time chewed up trying to find out about these laws. And in the end I still won't know the source. I still won't know the source of the laws. What if I have the option of knowing the source of the laws and the source of the laws tells me all the laws? Now that would be a much better option I feel. And that is where I feel it's a much more logical thing to try to do - to work out whether there is such a thing a connection with the source.

3. Faith is based upon facts (continued)

If we get back out discussion about faith, can you see that the kind of faith I'm speaking of is not the kind of faith that is blind; it's not the kind of faith that's just a belief system without any backing; it's not the kind of faith that's just a concept in your own imagination, but it's actually based on reality. It's based on scientific, verifiable, facts. That's the kind of faith that we need to have.

Participant: I see there's a problem with facts.

Sure.

Participant: Some people choose to believe some things as facts and other people will choose to believe they're not facts.

Yeah see I'm not speaking of that. What I'm speaking about is; what is the actual fact.

Participant: Yes, I know but you're quoting science all the time and even scientists can't agree. I was reading in The Australian this morning how a few decades ago scientists were saying that the fact was that people with schizophrenia were no more likely to be violent than normal people. And now scientists are saying they can be up to nine times more violent than normal people. So what was scientifically agreed facts a few decades ago was different to what is scientifically agreed now.

I agree, but if somebody didn't do the experiment, trying to find more facts, we would never know that.

Participant: But like if you have a belief in something, you tend to find facts that support that belief.

But sooner or later, with the way God's Universal Laws work, if you have a sincere desire to experiment, you will soon find out through a process that everything that you previously believed about that particular thing might be wrong. So I can't see how that is different to what I'm saying.

3.1. Discovering facts is a process that involves making mistakes

Participant: It just seems to me it's a long drawn out process discovering what are actually the facts.

Oh I agree! I agree. Like with the Law of Aerodynamics, it was a 3700 year process. So I'm not disputing that it's a long process. What I'm saying though is that in the end we now trust it with our very lives, do we not? And we know it to be a fact because we experience it. And it's very different experiencing it than just theorising about it.

What I would suggest to you is that the first example you gave were people just theorising without having the facts at their disposal. But once they measured the facts by getting all the so-called schizophrenic people together and working out what happened with their life, once they could measure the facts then they realised that original postulation was incorrect. And this is okay, I feel. It's the discovery of facts like that.

Participant: Yeah, I know, and I agree with you totally. I'm not trying to...

So what's the emotional problem you have with it? Can you see the emotional problem you have with it is you don't want to take that long. Can you see that? And you want to know what is the actual fact right now.

Participant: Yeah.

And I'm telling you it's impossible for anybody to give you that information, even God can't give you that information, given the current development. All future discovery will be a process. Now again it's logical, and this is something I feel you don't really understand at the soul level. Many of you do not understand this at the soul level because if you did, you wouldn't be so frightened about hearing truth. And you wouldn't be so frightened about making mistakes. Because if you understood at the soul level that your life from now on is going to be a process of discovery of new things, you wouldn't decide to wait around until somebody tells you the truth of it - you'd be a part of the discovery. [00:59:42.07]

Many of us don't do that and the reason why we don't do that is because we're afraid, and this is where our fear has a major impact upon our willingness to engage the process of our life. If you truly understood the truth that we live in an infinite universe, and that only God knows everything, because God is the source, the one who created it; if we understand that fact, then we would not be so hung up about the fact that we don't know things, and we would not be so hung up about making mistakes. We'd be perfectly okay with making mistakes.

Many of you are not okay with making mistakes at all. I know that because when you ask me for my opinion about Earth changes, for example, and I tell you this is what I feel today, you then go away hoping it's a fact. What have I just said about opinions?

3.2. Faith is not based upon opinions

What did I say opinions were? They're just suppositions, but they are not facts. When you asked me for my opinion about something, and if I don't know if it's a fact, I tell you well this is my opinion at the time, and yet you go away thinking or wanting it to be a fact. That's totally ludicrous. Why would you do such a thing?

I know certain things are facts because I've had my own experience with those particular things, and faith is one of those things that I know is a fact; that we're talking about today. Tomorrow we'll be talking about prayer, and I know it works as a fact. I've had a whole life of it as a fact - two thousand years of life of it, as a fact. I know it works, I know what it does.

These are facts that I'm presenting to you. That's different than you asking me for my opinion about what might happen in the future. I've got no idea - that's a fact. (Laughter) I've got no idea. I only have an opinion, just like you might have one. Because nobody would know that as a fact, except perhaps God who created all the laws involved that create the future. But I don't know. I cannot predict your future. Many of us want the prediction of a future. Why? Because we're afraid to engage our day-to-day life discovering and experimenting with our life to determine what the facts are. That's why we don't engage. And this is the problem that we have. So opinions are not worth much.

3.3. Discovering facts is a joyful process

So when the scientific community says, "We believe..." to me they are just presenting their opinion without knowing the full facts yet. So I am not totally addicted to going, "Well that means that's true and I can base my whole life on that." I would suggest to you that you're very unwise doing the same because there is so much more for us to discover, and in a infinite universe it makes sense that we're going to have more to discover, does it not? Every single day there'll be more to discover. Do you want to engage the discovery or are you just going to sit back and have your experiential life without discovering more, waiting for other people to do all the discoveries for you? The irony is who's the person that is going to enjoy those discoveries the most? It's the person who discovers them, not you. And that's a fact. [01:03:43.11]

The reason why that's a fact is because the people who come along afterwards have not had to go through the process, and since they have not had to go through the process, they don't have a full appreciation of what's involved in understanding these facts. And if you don't have a full appreciation you don't have gratitude and you don't really engage it. So I'm suggesting that unless you're willing to live your life like this, as an experiment, and unless you're willing to discover more and more and more of God's Laws as an experiment for you personally, you are not going to have the same kind of joy as a person who does those things.

3.4. Discovering facts involves personal experience

There's also another reason, and that is this. If I'm a person who's a pianist, and I'm playing the piano and I play it beautifully, and you come up to me and you say, "I would love to be able to play the piano like you do," I can tell you as a fact that you are able to play the piano as good as anyone who's ever lived. Now that's a fact. But is it ever going to be your reality unless you have some faith that you can make it your fact?

You see just because facts are presented to you, it does not mean that you believe them or that they will affect your life in a positive direction. A person can get up in front of you like I am and tell you fact after fact, but unless you personally engage something where you want to experience that particular thing, you will not ever have the benefit of those facts in your personal life.

Participant: It just doesn't seem very efficient. Like the Wright brothers discovered the Laws of Aerodynamics, and we all benefit from those, so we can't rely on Jesus to discover all the laws of the soul...

By the way they didn't discover all the Laws of Aerodynamics. It started many, many thousands of years prior to them in fact.

Participant: So there was a succession of people who had that desire.

Yes.

Participant: And they discovered those laws.

All with limited lifetimes.

Participant: And now we all benefit. What I'm saying is that we don't need to discover the Laws of Aerodynamics for ourselves.

No, but when you fly you certainly appreciate knowing them and understanding them as a fact, do you not?

Participant: Yes.

Okay.

Participant: I'm still feeling like, well to me the fast track is to find Jesus because he's worked out all the laws of the spirit life (laughter) and the soul and learn them from him, as opposed to wanting to experiment myself.

But what I'm saying is even if you find Jesus, and you listen to every single thing he says, which is quite difficult as you know from personal experience (laughter), and apply absolutely everything, unless you engage a process that he describes, you will never know these things as a fact. So this is a problem.

Now don't take the analogy too far with this physical thing that I'm talking about because we've got to get into the discussion about faith and what that really is, as a part of this. But it's important for you to realise that you can listen to somebody present to you fact after fact after fact after fact and have no appreciation for it whatsoever, have no appreciation for how it's going to change your life in any way, have no appreciation of how it's going to affect your future, and have very little desire to engage any of it. That's a fact too. You can choose to do all of that. So it requires more than just the presentation of facts and listening to somebody present facts to you before you will engage the process of changing your own life: far more. And this is where faith is involved.

3.4.1. An example of listening to Divine Truth

Participant: Which is proven by the fact that we've listened to you for four years and not necessarily done the first thing that you've shared with us.

Yes. Many of you come up to me four years later and go, "You know that thing you said four years ago? I'm just realising that I don't know anything about it!" (Laughter) And I go, "Yeah, that's right!" That's what it's like unless you engage this other process, which we want to talk to you about.

Already you as an audience are starting to see the flaws with the normal types of faith. See what I'm talking about is this faith based on facts, but you're starting to see the flaws. The flaws are, well the trouble is I only have a certain amount of facts. So at any one point in time, I've only got a limited number of facts. I haven't got all the facts. So therefore I don't know all the reality, I only know a limited reality. You're starting to see that.

You're also starting to see that unless you personally experience something, while it might be a fact, it doesn't mean it's a fact for you. So it might be a fact in terms of how the universe operates and how everything works, but it might not be a fact for you personally until you go through some kind of different process. [01:09:18.03]

This is why we start presenting facts after fact after fact after fact, and many of you now have come along to enough sessions to have quite a lot of facts presented to you. But some of you have done that without changing at all. Why? Because it has yet to engage something inside of you that causes you to desire to actually take some action based upon these facts.

So now we're starting to see that there is a relationship between the fact, the actual reality, and whether you will choose to act upon them. Isn't that interesting? (AJ looks at "facts" and "acts" on the whiteboard) Acts, facts. Hmm. Funny, the English language sometimes.

3.5. God is constantly presenting us with facts

You see quite often we are presented with fact after fact after fact in our personal life, and God's doing this, by the way, with you every single moment of every single day of your entire existence, whether it's here on Earth or in the spirit world, God is presenting you fact after fact after fact after fact.

So when you have an accident, like I did this morning - I was just working on a redundant array server, and it had a very sharp edge and it cut me across my left hand and I go, "Hmm, that's an interesting fact." God is just telling me something here. No accident happens by chance. I've learnt that enough about all of the other laws to know that me cutting myself on my left hand just before a seminar, and having to patch myself up with superglue so that I don't bleed everywhere, has some kind of significance. And I've just got to find what that is. I've just got to find what that is. [01:11:20.18]

4. Our actions are driven by a belief that they will be of personal benefit

Now often we can listen to a whole group of facts and never act upon any of them. What are the facts you act upon? Have you given that much thought? I'm not asking what ones they are; I'm asking what group of facts do you act upon?

Participant: Usually the ones that I'm not afraid of.

The ones you're not afraid of, yes. Let's make a bit of a list here. Ones we're not afraid of.

Participant: Family beliefs.

Yeah but I would say that a lot of them aren't facts. (Laughs) I'm talking about the actual facts that you act upon. What are the ones you act upon?

Participant: The ones that keep me inside of my comfort zone?

Well let's not analyse it too much. What is it about the ones that make you comfortable? What is it?

Participant: The ones that I already know.

They're the ones you already know, but some of the ones that you don't know you act upon, so that's not always the case. But think back to your comfort zone thing. What is it there? You like them, don't you?

Participant: Yes.

And your like of them causes you to act upon them. Isn't that true? And that's what causes us to act. You see the way God's presenting us the truth is that God's presenting us the truth of millions of facts, so many facts that we don't know them all, and one person in a lifetime can hardly discover any of them. And what causes us to act upon them, is not the facts themselves, it's if we feel there is a personal benefit to acting upon it. And if we feel there's a personal benefit, we will act upon it but if we don't feel there's a personal benefit, then we will not act upon it?

Participant: You said something a long time ago that I don't think I had faith in but I hoped and over the time I verbalised that hope, I felt, I haven't acted on it really although I verbalised it to other people, and other people were convinced that I had total faith in it, I believe at the time. But God in my Law of Attraction is showing me now it's the truth.

Yeah. Well this is what we want to talk about more - how faith and hope finish up as trust, which is the end result where we have full complete confidence; how these things are all related and what motivates. But what we're trying to get at, at this point, and this is the important point that I'm trying to make, is that your deciding to act doesn't depend upon the facts so much, it depends upon whether you feel there's a personal benefit. That's what it depends upon. So many of you are willing to act upon things that are not facts because you believe there's a personal benefit. And many of you are willing to actually try to break God's Facts in order to get the personal benefit. And that's a problem if we're really ever going to become harmonious with the laws that govern our very existence.

4.1. Rebelling against God's Laws

So a lot of the times what we're trying to do is we're not really trying to discover law. You know what we're most of us trying to do instead? We're trying to rebel. That's what we're trying to do most of the time.

Why do we try to do that? Because we do not believe that finding and discovering more laws that God has created, will give us freedom. We believe what it will do is constrain us. We believe it's going to restrict us further by knowing the laws. And so we've come up this term, you know the term \- "ignorance is bliss". Isn't that the term that we often use?

I can tell you as a fact that ignorance is not bliss. Bliss is knowing all of the laws and living by them. That's bliss. So it's not ignorance that's bliss, it's knowing everything, all the laws that govern your existence and living by them, that brings you bliss. [01:17:02.01]

Participant: Wouldn't it be more wanting to live by the laws is bliss? Because I can live by the laws but I can be really, you know, angry about it or anxious about it or...

But the reality is, Jennifer, and this is something that you have yet to really understand I feel. The reality is that if you want to break the law while you're living by the law, you'll never experience the bliss that comes from living by the law because there's a law that governs that as well. And most of us have yet to discover the laws that cause our own pain as a result of our own rebellion or not even as a result of our rebellion - many of us are reluctant obeyers. We reluctantly obey.

How many of you would classify as a person who reluctantly obeys? You think about the laws of the land, how many of them do you reluctantly obey? (Laughs) Yeah.

So God's made this beautiful universe full of laws that are all created that will allow us to experience bliss if we engage every one of them, but the majority of us are not interested in finding the physical ones, we're not interested in finding the spiritual ones, and we're not interested in finding the soul-based laws because we want to be a rebel... without a cause! (Laughter) And there is no reason for doing it, but we want to be a rebel and the things we can't rebel against without getting a real problem, we reluctantly obey. Now under those circumstances you are never going to experience bliss, ever.

Mary: I also feel we'll never experience faith.

Exactly.

Mary: Because it seems to me that faith comes when we experience the facts, not when we hear them.

Yes.

Mary: And if our heart really wants to rebel then we never actually experience the fact, which builds our faith.

Exactly. For that reason the majority of you here in the audience have no faith in anything that I've presented to you because you're yet to want, to want to experience it. You reluctantly engage it many times. You go, "Oh there's the Law of Attraction again in my life," and you get all upset about it, as if God's making a mistake. "God made a mistake with that law, you know! I'm getting this attraction and my soul attracted it... I wish I'd never heard that! I wish I'd never heard that my soul attracts these events."

4.1.1. An example of being angry with the Law of Attraction

We were having a conversation the other day, someone was just angry that they were attracting that thing. That's the rebellion. You don't want to accept that there's a law involved that's perfect and that it's only our disharmony with it that causes these attractions. We don't want to accept that. We go, "No, no that's not my fault." If it's not your fault, then whose fault is it? If you've attracted something into your personal life and it's not your fault, then whose fault is it? Well to be honest, most of you believe it's God's fault - He shouldn't have made the law. "If He made the law different, I'd have a different outcome." This is the way that we often view it.

But we don't understand - the Law of Gravity is fact but it has some beautiful result, hey? Yeah. It meant that your very life lasted longer than about twenty-five seconds because otherwise you would have popped out of mum and flown off into space. (Laughter) That's a loving outcome - you had a longer life than twenty-five seconds. And there goes the Law of Gravity, another loving outcome. And the Law of Aerodynamics has loving outcomes. Even all the physical laws have loving outcomes. So why wouldn't you then assume that all of the other laws that govern the other parts of your existence all also having loving outcomes if you understand them and engage them. Why wouldn't you assume this? Because you know what? We're totally addicted to having what we believe are our "desires" met and so we only listen to the facts that meet up with our desires. We are totally dismissive of all the other facts, including dismissive of the very facts of what's happening to our life. [01:22:22.21]

So we get a sore or some ache here, a pain there, whatever - we're totally dismissive of these facts that are being presented to us, not understanding. The reason we are dismissive is because we want to rebel, we're reluctant obeyers of the law. The majority of us have to work on that because if you truly want to ever have any faith about God and the future, you're going to have to learn to move from being a reluctant obeyer into wanting to understand the law and obey it, because it's the desire to understand the law and obey it that's given us the beautiful things that it's already given us.

So, we benefit from somebody deciding that they wanted to understand the Law of Aerodynamics. How many of you would have ever flown on your own desire if somebody else didn't discover the Law of Aerodynamics? How many of you would have attempted to go through what, say, George Whitehead went through or the Wright brothers went through where you spent a whole life discovering one particular thing, just so you could do it? How many of you would be willing to do that? I'd suggest not very many of us. There are some of us, but not very many of us, that are willing to do that.

And the reason why is because we feel certain things about law. We feel it's going to restrict us. Now there is no real reason why we could ever think that. Every time mankind has discovered a physical law that's an actual fact of the universe, it has always resulted in more freedom for mankind. So how can you then go, "If I discover or know about a law that applies to me personally, that's going to result in less freedom"? How can you do that? You can't. Not logically.

5. Experimenting to gain faith

5.1. Finding incentive to experiment with spiritual and soul-based laws

Let's move on to the point that I'm trying to make about faith, shall we? We've seen this relationship now that there are physical laws; we know that for certain; possibly there are spiritual laws, and possibly there are soul-based laws and somebody has to do some experiments to find out. Otherwise none of us are ever going to find out. And what I'm suggesting to you is what is going to make you be one of those people who experiments? You're going to have to see somehow that there is a personal benefit to doing it because that's the only thing that's going to drive you to do it.

Now the problem with most religious philosophies on the planet is that there does not seem to be much personal benefit to follow them because they feel restrictive, they feel they're imposing more and more constraints upon you generally. That's why for the majority of people they feel like, "I don't want to know more about religion. Every time I find out something more it feels like there's another restriction on me and another and another and another and another." And in fact there are whole books written about what restrictions should apply to an average person with faith.

If we examine faith generally on the planet, and now I'm speaking more about faith about the bigger things in the universe. At this point I've illustrated that we all have faith in physical things, and our day-to-day lives are proof of the faith that we have in physical things. Very few of us have faith in spiritual things, and almost none of us have faith soul-based things. That's the reality. What I'm suggesting is to gain faith there's got to be some kind of experiment, and our focus needs to change. Instead of focusing on the physical as we do, and we experiment often every single day with the physical, and instead of doing that, we need to start experimenting with the spiritual and with the soul-based things that we are attempting to experiment with. [01:27:02.05]

And there has to be a reason for you to do it because without the reason you won't do it. Without there being some desire that causes you to move forward in this regard, you won't do it. It doesn't matter how many facts are presented to you about the spiritual, and it doesn't matter how many facts are presented to you about the soul, you will not do anything about them. You will not unless you believe there is a personal advantage to doing it. If there's no personal advantage then there's little point in doing it, that is the way most of us would feel.

Now some of us have the more collective viewpoint in that we say if there is no advantage to humankind then I wouldn't do it. But that's just an extension of the individual restriction that we've placed, and what I'm stating is that if we are truly ever going to experiment with what is going on with our life, and what's actually happening in terms of God's Laws and so forth, what we need to start doing is experimenting with the truths of the universe rather than just focusing on the physical. And I'm suggesting there are far more truths than the physical.

Let's look at the relationship between these now and we've established that there are physical laws, and those physical laws, the more of which we've discovered, have created freedom to a degree. In the process of discovering freedom, they give us more joy in our life - supposedly - in some cases. Isn't it fantastic that you can go from one country to another country and see the world now when a hundred years ago to do that you had to do it by a ship? For the previous five thousand years you had to do it by a ship and you had to be pretty brave because a lot of the ships weren't that stable and safe.

Yet now we can just go, "I'd like to go to Bali." You fork out a few hundred bucks to whichever carrier is going to carry us, and they've engaged all of the laws involved, getting us safely from Australia to Bali and back home again. We can go there in two weeks, and when we say in two weeks, I'm not saying that it takes two weeks to get there - it takes four, five hours to get there and then we're back home, we spend all of the time enjoying that particular location and come home, so it has improved our joy and our freedom. [01:29:48.20]

And I'm suggesting to you that the discovery of spiritual laws results in even greater freedom with even greater joy, and I'm suggesting to you that the discovery of soul-based laws results in the most intense freedom you can ever experience and therefore the most intense joy you will ever have. That's what I'm suggesting.

The problem is most of us don't believe it, and your day-to-day life is fact that you don't believe it actually. If you look at the amount of time you spend engaging any of these laws in an understanding manner in your day-to-day life, what would you find? Remember in a previous talk I said, "What is your treasure?" We talked about what is your treasure, and I said add up the amount of time you spend on something and that's how dedicated you are to finding out about that particular thing.

5.1.1. Determining how long we spend discovering new laws

So let's look at the amount of time we spend discovering new physical laws. How many of you do that? Discovering new physical laws? How much time in a week would you spend? For the majority of us it would be zero hours on that because we're very reliant on: "A scientist does that for me." We're reliant on other people doing it, so we do zero hours.

How much time do we spend trying to discover the spiritual laws of the universe? These are the kind of things that affect the relationship between the spirit body and the material body, what happens in my spirit body, what happens in my physical body, what's going on between these two bodies? How is it that my physical body gets disease? How is that related to my spirit body somehow? What's going on in my spirit body that causes those particular things? All of these kinds of investigations. Communicating with people who have passed, people who live in the spirit form only, seeing them, connecting with them, sharing moments with them. In a conscious manner, how many hours a week would on the average would we spend doing that? For many of us it's zero there too. But let's say for some of you it's not the case so you might spend a few hours a week, let's say.

Can you see we're not going to end up finding out very much with this kind of a lifestyle? Let's go on to the soul-based laws. So this is the kind of thing where we're experimenting with how the soul affects the spirit body, and how the soul affects the material body and what things inside of the soul are working. What laws can I discover that govern the operation of my own soul and govern how my soul works and exists and experiences things in the universe? How information is fed into the soul, how the soul union can be engaged, how the other half of your soul can be engaged and so forth. How many hours a week would the average person spend on that do you think? Well again, it's probably zero. Now, for many of you, you've now started that process, yes? But if we're sincere about it, we're probably only spending a few hours a week, many of us. So we might spend two or three hours a week.

How many hours do you spend eating? (Laughter) For a lot of us, we'd like to eat the whole day. We graze, shall we say. But if you compare the amount of time, let's look at it. Let's say breakfast is quarter of an hour, lunch is twenty minutes, half an hour maybe, dinner time you might spend half an hour to an hour on that, so it's about two hours a day. Let's say two hours a day, times by seven days a week, fourteen hours. We spend more hours eating than we do discovering the very laws that govern our entire existence.

How many hours do you spend having a cup of coffee? Zero? Cup of tea? (Laughs) Can you see that quite often we are engaged in the things that we believe we're benefiting from, but the reality is we as a human race and personally would benefit far more from the examination of these laws than we can even imagine at this point in time. Yet we don't engage the process. We don't engage the process. Why don't we engage the process? Because we do not have faith. That's why we don't engage the process. We do not believe, truly, in our heart, that engaging the process of the discovery of these things - physical, spiritual and soul-based laws \- will bring us any personal benefit. And this is the kind of faith we're going to have to develop if we're truly going to change. And the laws that are facts - these are facts of the universe.

There are facts that govern the physical universe; there are facts that govern the spiritual universes. There are facts that govern the soul-based universes, all of which are important to your future existence, and unless you develop some kind of faith, which incorporates a desire to discover them, you will never change. You will never discover them. When I say you'll never change, of course you will change because the whole of God's Laws are governed towards you changing. Sooner or later you're going to have to change, even if you don't want to, but it's going to be a slow, laborious process unless you engage this faith.

6. Solomon's Padgett message regarding Divine Love, faith and prayer

Now in the Padgett messages there's a very, very short message by Solomon. Myself and Mary have discussed it and we've placed a recording of it on the Internet, which you will see probably arrive there next week. It's a message from Solomon from 1915 that was given in the Padgett messages. But basically it says this.

Padgett said, "What are the most important things in all the universe?" Now that's a pretty big question. Now can you imagine yourself sitting down there, writing to a spirit who was channelling to you, and you saying, "Please tell me what you believe are the most important things in all the universe." What would you be expecting to get as an answer? Well Padgett never expected his answer because Solomon said to him, "Three things. One on the part of God and two on the part of man." The thing on the part of God he said was the most important thing in all the universe was God's Personal Love for each individual human, the Divine Love. That is the most important thing in all of the universe that you could ever engage. That's what Solomon said.

And by the way, this is a guy who's lived three and a half thousand years, actually he's lived a bit longer than that, and therefore has a fairly good idea that he's saying the truth. And then he said that on the part of man there are two things that are the most important things in all the universe. You know what he said they were? The first one was faith and the second one was prayer. He said this because Divine Love, God's Love, is the thing that you can receive that will transform your entire life and it leads to complete bliss. And faith and prayer are the only two things you need in order to receive it.

And this is a man who has spent three and a half thousand years examining the laws of the universe. So I don't know about you, but I think it would be wise to have a listen to what he's got to say with regard to what he thinks is the most important things. He's saying that from God's perspective, the Divine Love is the most important thing that you will ever work your way through to experiencing in your entire life, in your entire existence. It is more important than your cup of tea and even more important than your meal, actually. It's more important than anything you can imagine in terms of transforming your life. [01:39:22.10]

Solomon said that there are only two things that you need in order to receive Divine Love. Faith is one of them and prayer, which is the longing of your heart, the desire of your heart projected towards God to receive it, is the other. They're the two things you need. And I've gone a long way around to saying it, but that's why faith is our topic for today, and prayer is our topic for tomorrow - because they're the only two things you are ever going to need in order to discover all of these things. All of these things will come to you through this process of discovery and proper application of faith and prayer.

6.1. Focusing on faith and prayer

Now what I see is that many of you are worried so much about all sorts of things in your day-to-day life. You hear the Divine Truth and you get it presented to you and then what you do is you go, "Ah I've got to think about the Law of Attraction here and I've got to work out how that's affecting me there and what addiction I'm in here and what's going on there." No you don't! Do you think I do all of those things? All I'm doing is telling the truth about those things, and they all influence these two things - faith and prayer. The reason why we've talked about them is because they all influence faith and prayer.

Your faith is so severely influenced by so many things that you'd be totally shocked, in fact. Many of you for example have this feeling in you of rebellion. Remember just before I asked about that and almost everybody put their hand up about that one. Do you know how much that feeling affects your faith? You have a direct desire to not know the truth - that's what rebellion is about - a direct desire to not understand, a direct desire to not understand the law.

Now do you think you're going to ever get closer to the creator of the laws if you've got a direct desire to rebel against every law that that creator created? That doesn't make too much logical sense to me and I'm sure it doesn't to you either if you think about it. But this is what we do. We are constantly trying to avoid the creator, the source, and avoid the experience of Divine Love, and as a result we can't grow, we can't change.

7. The experience of love

One of the things Solomon said in this message was this. He said when the love comes then faith will come along with it. So what did he mean by that do you think? What is love? Let's describe it as an emotion. How does it feel? How does it feel to you - love? How would you describe it as a quality? Can you describe the kinds of things that you give a feeling of love?

It's interesting, isn't it, that we've discussed love for five years and when we start talking about it we still are pretty confused, yeah?

Participant: It cleanses and purifies, so...

Yeah see now you're talking about its operation. I'm not wanting to know about its operation, I want to know about its feelings. What's the feeling?

Participant: Warmth.

Participant: For me it's a surrendering, it's a giving up to...

That's another operation. It's not a feeling.

Participant: From what I've experienced it feels soft and gentle and...

So it has a gentleness to it. I would agree with that. A gentle softness. Like a pillow is soft as well. So I don't know...

Participant: I was going to say it's softening as well but also that it touches; it kind of melts the heart.

It does, but that is an operation again. It's similar to the operations before. Do you know why you're having so much trouble knowing? Because you don't experience it very often. That's sad, eh? That just tells us how sad it really is, isn't it.

Participant: For me it's a feeling of security where there is no fear. It nullifies fear.

Can we see how each of us are going down this track of going it's not this and it's not that and it has this operation and it has that operation but we're not actually describing the sensations are we, in terms of qualities.

Participant: Pleasure?

So there's a joy or a pleasure in it, isn't there? That's a quality, certainly. What kind of joy or pleasure is it though? What kind of joy or pleasure? There's a flavour to it, isn't there?

Participant: I feel supported and understood.

Yep. But somebody can understand you and have no love for you at all. So that doesn't necessarily guarantee love either, does it?

Participant: Generosity?

It's got a generosity to it, yes... shall we call it giving.

Participant: Along those lines I was going to say it's a gift from God.

It's a gift; let's call it a gift. Many of you don't see it as a gift; you see it as an expectation, that's why you don't experience it very often. You go, "I want my husband to love me and if he runs off with another woman then he doesn't love me" - that's your expectation... that didn't go down well! (Laughter) [01:46:47.05]

Participant: It's not very peaceful to hear that!

Not very peaceful to hear that! You see if you truly loved your partner it would not affect you when they went off with another person. You would still love them if it was truly present. You would still have feelings for them of kindness, compassion. These are the kind of things that we need to be listing here - qualities like kindness, compassionate. Yeah, those are the kind of qualities that are really about love.

Participant: Forgiving?

It's forgiving, yes. But really that's an operation, isn't it. We're looking for feelings here.

Participant: Feeling inspirational, enthusiasm.

So it inspires, and you've missed out one really good one. It's about enthusiasm but it excites, doesn't it? Like how many of you go, when you were teenagers and you fell in love and you went (AJ says in a bored voice), "Oh yeah, I'm in love. Yeah." As if! As if. It just excites you with a passion, doesn't it? It creates passion, longing. Longing within the soul. These are all the things that love does.

Participant: Could I say bliss?

Bliss but yeah, bliss is an overused word nowadays, isn't it. Like people say they're in bliss when I look at their life and I go, "You're not in bliss!" (Laughs) You know. I feel we need to be more specific.

Participant: For me it often is electrifying and enlivens. You know my whole body comes alive and I can't sit still. It's like there's a million things going on, and even though I'm really tired, I can't possibly sleep because I'm just so alive.

Yeah exactly. It is like that, isn't it?

Participant: It feels delicate and sweet to me.

Sweet, yeah, delicate. Nice words. Sweet. Delicate.

Feelings associated with the experience of love

When you think about it, it's not often that we experience these feelings, unfortunately. The reality is that all of these feelings, if you think about those feelings, they are all a measure of how enjoyable your entire life will be.

8. Faith and prayer lead to love

What I'm saying to you is that faith and prayer are going to lead to these qualities of love.

Now do you know why the majority of you are not finding those things in your experience of the Divine Truth? Because you're hearing facts without having any faith or prayer. You're hearing facts, you're having fact after fact after fact presented to you in these kind of discussions, but because they're not becoming a personal experience in any way it's not going to lead to any joy. And instead you become traumatised. So many of you are worried. The more you hear the more worried you become. Have you noticed that for some of you? "Oh am I doing this? What am I doing? Have I broken that law? Oh I don't know! What am I doing now?" Isn't it how it is for many of you? You go, "Oh no, what's happening now? This and that." And the reason why we're doing all of that is because we are so worried about making mistakes and the more truth we hear, the more worried about making a mistake we become.

Now do you think a person who's living in faith worries about making mistakes? No. The reason why is because they know they've got nothing to worry about. The more things we can faith about, and the more this faith moves us to action - and prayer is an action, a feeling that comes from our soul, so it's something we have to act upon - and the more Divine Love that we receive, the more feelings of love becomes our result.

Now I say to you - who wouldn't want these feelings of love? Unfortunately most of us have no faith we're going to get them if we engage prayer. We believe we're going to get them by engaging something else, for example by figuring out the Law of Attraction. Has that worked for you? Do you feel happier doing that? No? I don't know anybody who feels happier doing that. Or somebody who's trying to live by the law, thinking - what law's this? What law am I breaking here? What law am I breaking there? What do you become? (Laughter) Paranoid? Yes I agree with that one. Neurotic? Yes. I agree with that one. That's what you're becoming. Some of you are becoming that. Have you noticed? Have you noticed your own neurosis developing? (Laughter) That's not Divine Truth. That is you being afraid of the laws. You're afraid of God, you're not willing to address those particular emotions.

The more emotions you're not willing to address, the less of the feelings of love you will finish up receiving and having and possessing as a part of your very life. Faith and prayer, these are the two things that are going to lead you there.

8.1. The benefits of focusing on discovering the laws of Divine Love

So what I'm saying to you is while it might not make sense to you yet, it makes sense to me that if when mankind discovers more physical laws that results in more freedom for mankind, and as a result it results in more joy of the experience of life, then I am suggesting to you that if you focus on also discovering these soul-based laws in your day-to-day life that this is also going to result in more freedom and more joy in your day-to-day life. And I'm suggesting to you that the biggest law possible that you could ever discover is the Law of Divine Love. [01:54:38.08]

I'm suggesting to you that if you focus most of your life and attention on the discovery and application of that particular law and you find out everything you possibly can find out about it; and you put it into practice, not just think about, but put it into practice - not because there is no benefit but because there is going to be a personal benefit to you that's the greatest benefit to your entire future existence, then I suggest you will engage those laws. If you understood the power that these soul-based laws have upon your very existence now and for your eternal future you would not hesitate to engage these laws.

Before when we were talking about how many hours we spent engaging the laws, how many hours would we spend? How many hours in a week is there? Let's help you. It's 24 x 7. What is it?

Participant: 168.

That's exactly right. Many of us don't even know how many hours we've got to discover the laws let alone discover them.

Now you think about it. When you're asleep you're still awake - you're awake in the spirit world. Now if you have a longing in your own soul to discover law you would want to discover law 168 hours of the week. If you knew that it had such a powerful effect on your future existence that's what we'd probably want to do.

Now we can discover law while we're having a cup of tea - that's the beauty of this. You can still eat and you can still sleep and you can still do all these other things that you need to do for your very life and still discover laws 168 hours of the week. You can discover laws while you're asleep in your sleep state. Many of you won't know that until you go to the spirit world and you remember your sleep state, and then you'll realise that you were discovering laws then too. [01:57:08.14]

But the majority of us we're not discovering laws, we're avoiding them. And what I'm suggesting is if you truly had faith in God's Love, you would not be avoiding law, you would not be avoiding prayer. It would become a high priority in your day-to-day life and existence.

8.2. Gaining faith by experimenting with the laws of Divine Love

Mary: So just going back to what you said at the start of the talk about the Law of Gravity, you were saying we all have like unquestioning faith in the Law of Gravity. That's because we experience it all the time.

We experience it all the time and experience the benefits of it. We can feel the benefits of it all the time.

Mary: Right. So that tells me in order to grow faith I must have an experience.

Yes. And this is what Solomon was saying.

Mary: Yes.

If at the moment, let's admit to ourselves, shall we, that at the moment we don't have a very strong faith in God. For many of us we're not even really sure whether God exists yet, if we're really honest with ourselves. For many of us we don't spend much of our time in the course of a day asking or talking to God about anything. Isn't that true? So that might be the average state that we have. Now can you see that if I just engage the experiment, and what's the experiment? The experiment is longing for Divine Love and seeing whether you receive it, and if you don't, trying to understand the laws that are involved why you're not receiving it. That's the experiment. And if you engage that experiment once it happens once and you know it, do you think you would then have more faith or less faith in it? More, of course, wouldn't you?

It's like if I said to you, "Look you can all run at that wall and you can all run straight through it," and for the first person who runs to the wall bangs into it, it wasn't possible. So the very first person who does that is going to get a feedback system knowing that it wasn't possible for them. Does that mean it's not possible? It doesn't, does it? It just means that I don't understand the laws engaged as to why that would happen. [01:59:42.23]

So if I'm not receiving Divine Love it's exactly the same. So if I think I'm praying and I think that I've got some kind of longing for God and instead what I do is I'm hitting that wall and bouncing off and nothing's really happening aside from me feeling like I'm hurt, then I must understand that I still don't understand the law that engages the reception of Divine Love.

So you see this is why it's very important for us. We need to engage the desire for prayer and when we realise that we don't get a response then we need to know that there's something that we don't understand here. There's some kind of law that we're not getting because there's millions of Celestial spirits who have gotten this law. So that tells us it's possible. There are plenty of other people that have done it; that tells us it's possible. So if it's possible but we don't do it then there's got to be something to do with our engagement of the law, our understanding personally of the law.

Mary: When everyone listens to you I feel their faith increase and I feel that's because they see a demonstration of fact in yourself. But that's not the real thing that grows our faith.

No.

Mary: It's having the experience for ourselves.

It's having the personal experience yourself.

Mary: But it keeps occurring to me as you're talking that we can also have faith in the process of experimentation.

Exactly.

Mary: And this is what you're describing. A lot of us feel like the experiment part is our faith, don't we? And then we go, "Ah, faith feels like I'm stepping out into the unknown and it's a big risk." From what you've said actually it's based on fact and that leads us to experiment, which is not faith, that's experimenting.

Yes.

Mary: And I can have faith that if I just keep experimenting...

Yes. Experimentation is important for us to eventually gain faith because without experimenting we will never have any faith.

Mary: We don't have an experience.

We won't have an experience. So we need to experiment. But the problem with experimenting for most of us is we are terrified of experimenting. You think about how much terror you have in your day-to-day life of trying something new, which is an experiment. The majority of people have huge amounts of terror involved with something new.

For instance if I said to you, "Right just stop for a moment. What I'm going to do now is in five minutes time I will starting out picking out people from the audience and you've got to come up here for five minutes and explain the principles of Divine Truth to the audience of two hundred people." How many of you would willingly and with great joy engage that experiment? Can you feel the fear? Now I know there are some of you that might but can you feel the fear? The fear goes, "Woooo." And what does fear do? It stops you from being willing to make mistakes.

That is involved with experimenting; a willingness to make mistakes. I'm willing to make thousands of mistakes. I love making mistakes. (Laughter) I'm serious! I do! Do you know why? Because without them I can't find out the answers to my experiments. So to me making mistakes is a very important part of this. You've got to be willing to make mistakes. Most of us are so unwilling to make mistakes that we don't even develop a desire to do something even when we have a spark of faith. We go, "My faith would motivate me down that track but I'm too frightened," so I go down this track instead. What's what we do. [02:03:54.18]

So what we would like to do after we have a break is we want to talk more about faith but this time what to have faith in, what kind of things are going to help us in the laws of Divine Love; the discovery of the greatest law. Remember I said to you that the laws of Divine Love are the greatest laws; the greatest laws of the universe are the laws of Divine Love. They will have the biggest effect on your future existence. At the moment most of you have no idea what I'm talking about and that's okay. I'm just trying to encourage you to believe, or at least have some faith, that this is the greatest law you could ever find out about. And what I'm suggesting is experiment with it. Allow yourselves to do the experiment, the big experiment, which is this connection with God.

Remember I said the connection with God is the thing that is going to give you all other truth. All the other facts of the universe will come to you through this connection. If you engage the connection first, that's going to be a very rapid process. If you do not engage the connection first, you know what will happen instead? What will happen instead is you'll have to do the individual step-by-step thing where you've got nobody telling you about what are the laws of the soul, and you have to discover each one of them personally.

Now many of you are engaged in this process unwillingly. Every single moment of every single day you're engaged in the process of unwillingly experiencing the results of God's Laws on the soul without wanting to know what's going on. Many people on the planet are doing that and most in fact people in the spirit world are still doing that. And what I'm suggesting is we need to change our tack, have some faith in God and start experimenting with this greatest law.

So after the break I want to talk some more about faith, what to have faith in, and then we'll leave it open to tomorrow with the discussion about prayer, and what we need to do with regard to prayer. Thanks, guys. (Applause)

Faith & Prayer: Session 1 Part 2

Okay let's get back to our discussion about faith. This is part of the Relationship with God series, if I haven't mentioned that to you before. What we've learnt so far is that there are certain things that we could call are the actual facts of the universe. So can we call them absolute truth? And absolute truth is the domain of God. So it's God's Truth. God of course knows everything that God has done, and therefore knows all of the absolute truth about the universe.

So fact is a very important part of having faith.

9. Faith is based on past experience, God's Laws and facts (continued)

We gave the illustration of when we were younger, learning the fact of gravity, which is a fact that we learned and experienced way before we actually understood it from a technological or from a scientific perspective. And this is one thing we need to come to understand; once we experience something, once the fact becomes an experience, then it becomes a fact for ourselves. And we don't have to know everything about the experience, all we need do is experience it and it's now a fact. We don't need to know that gravity is 9.8 m/s/s, we can feel that if we let something go or drop something off a cliff or something like that, that it accelerates towards the ground. We know that occurs, and of course the higher you are, the more the acceleration and therefore the larger the impact. So if I fall from a desk three feet high, that's going to be a lot different effect than falling from a building that's thousands of feet high. It will have a different effect because I'm accelerating until I hit what's called terminal velocity, which is the wind resistance preventing me from continuing to accelerate.

These things are absolute facts. You can't change them. They are therefore the Laws of God. They're parts of the Law of God's Creation. When they become my personal experience, now I feel this absolute fact. That's the personal experience. So experience is a very important part in developing faith about future things because once I've had the experience about a past event, that gives me faith about a future event. And when I say a future event, a future probable new piece of knowledge that I can learn. [00:19:06.05]

So, once I've had an experience I then start to have more faith in future possible experiences. Can you see that if you don't have any experience at all, it's very, very hard to have faith in future possible experiences? So for this reason the first experience becomes a key factor in developing our faith.

9.1. Readily accepting physical laws that are obvious

Now we referred all of this of course to physical laws, didn't we? We were focused on the physical laws before. The laws that are physical in nature and operation, and all of us have a large degree of faith, so much so that you could say our faith has become certainty. This is what happens with faith as it grows and grows and grows through experience; eventually you get to a point where you know for certain what the outcome is going to be.

Now with regard to the Law of Gravity, we know for certain what the outcome is going to be, living here on Earth for the period of time that we have, we have a certain type of experience and this experience tells us with certainty that if I jump off of anything I'm going to fall to the ground at a certain speed, or a certain acceleration is probably the more accurate term. So these are physical laws but interestingly enough with the physical laws I don't go, "Oh, I don't believe that," because it's obvious. We just automatically believe it whenever it's obvious. And we've grown up with it and through our experiences it teaches us that it's obvious and so we automatically believe it.

9.2. Difficulty in accepting undiscovered laws such as interstellar transportation

The other thing that we've spoken about is if nobody has experienced anything on a certain subject, then it's very, very hard for the first person to have faith on that subject. Can you see why that would be the case? So if none of us had any experience whatsoever with, let's say, interstellar transportation.

Have any of you got experience of that yet? (Laughter) No? Okay. So interstellar transportation, let's call it that. Well to be honest if you were all reincarnated beings you would have had some experience with that. The fact that you haven't had any experience with it tells me that you can't be reincarnated beings for a start. So interstellar transportation - it's a way of moving yourself through space to another location in space and in between there is no atmosphere in order to exist. So there are what we would call boundaries of light years of space between all of these locations.

Now not many of us know much about interstellar transportation from an experiential point of view. You imagine you're the first person trying to find out about the law, what would you do? Well can you see what you would do is what mankind has already started doing - that's why the space thing began. Mankind had to learn how to live in a vacuum by producing some kind of like craft. So that's the beginning of the exploration of the knowledge of interstellar transportation. We've already begun it as a human race, ironically. We've already begun the investigation of space type of transport but we've had to learn a lot of laws in the process.

You think of how many physical laws they had to learn in order to put man on the moon. There are literally thousands and thousands of physical laws that were engaged to put man on the moon. Systems that had to be created for the survivability of mankind in a vacuum, systems that had to be created for the survivability from atmospheric matter heating their craft and potentially damaging the craft, systems of support of life, systems of how they were going to eat, how they were going to sleep, how they were going to pee, how they were going to poo. All sorts of system that were all put together and that's the beginning of the investigation of this process. We're very passionate about these things. We're so passionate that NASA spent billions and billions and billions and billions of dollars on this in order to be these people that got to the moon and back, and there was a whole series of learning that had to occur through that process. [00:24:51.08]

But that's only a small part of the entire process of interstellar transportation. Can you see that once you do it once the next time you do it is going to be much easier? And then the next time it's going to be easier again. And if you found through this process some laws that govern the physical, spiritual and soul-based part of man that allow you to do it, why, wouldn't you be engaging it every day? If you knew there was an Earth, 600 light years away in a constellation somewhere out in space, where there's people that you could meet, and you could travel there at the flick of a switch, wouldn't you do it? Why wouldn't you? Can you see it would enhance your life as well, wouldn't it? You'd get to meet people in a whole different Earth, like a different environment. That would be pretty amazing, getting to talk to them, find out what their life is like, find out whether they're ahead of us or behind us in development. All these things. There are so many fascinating things, in other words there are so many joys that we would have as a part of that discovery.

10. Gaining faith by experimenting with the laws of Divine Love (continued)

What I'm suggesting to you is the biggest thing to discover has been discovered, because it was discovered in the first century, but has yet to be fully engaged by the majority of people on Earth, is the actual fact, which is God's Truth, the absolute truth, about Divine Love, God's Love. That is the most important thing you can experiment with.

Now to have the experience of receiving Divine Love, two things are required. I mentioned them before, and they are faith and prayer. But before you're going to find out anything about it personally, you are going to need to experiment.

Can I state to you the biggest issue that we have is that most of us are totally not willing to experiment. We are a part of this society where we expect instant results and as a result of this instant result philosophy, whenever we don't get an instant result we believe someone else other than ourselves is at fault.

So whenever somebody mentions to us, "Have faith in God and have faith that this Love is available to you, and long for the Love," and you sit there for five minutes longing for the love and say, "I don't feel anything! That means it's just a crock of shit." That's what the average person might believe. Or, "I don't feel anything. This is just because it doesn't work. It's not true."

Now I'm saying to you that the reason why this happens to us is because we're not willing to experiment long enough. A really dedicated scientist doesn't come up with a concept or an idea, spend five minutes tinkering with it, and then go, "Yeah it's a crock of shit." (Laughter) Does he? The whole principle of that would be ludicrous if you were a scientist. And yet that's what we do with our soul. We do that with our soul. It doesn't make any sense. We need to stop doing that and realise that if we wish to have an everlasting future existence and we wish to grow everlastingly in this existence that we've engaged, what we want to do is to start seeing the importance of our own development and therefore focus on developing the experiment. [00:29:19.16]

The experiment is very simple. Have some faith in a few things, which we'll mention in a minute, and pray. We have to define prayer in this process obviously, which we'll talk about tomorrow. But we'll talk today more about what kind of things to have faith in.

10.1. An example of a participant who is disappointed with her previous experiments

Participant: I have difficulty with faith in that I went and did several different things for many, many years, experimenting - what I thought was experimenting - and giving it my full only to feel that I went down the wrong path and many, many years in that. And now I've come to at least intellectually realise that I must be doing something wrong...

So you're disappointed?

Participant: Yes.

Yes. And you know what happens with emotions that we don't allow ourselves to feel? (Laughter) Well you should know by now! We've talked about it for five years. Whenever you don't allow yourself to feel disappointed you carry around your disappointment. So instead of letting it go, you carry it around. And when you carry it around it infects your next engagement. And this is what's happening for most of us with regard to our relationship with God. The reality is most of us have not experimented strongly with our relationship with God. We've had moments in our life where we have, but it's not been a great passion of our lives most of the time because we have had times of disappointment in the past when we've tried to engage a relationship, it hasn't worked.

So what have we told ourselves? "Maybe it's not possible. I'm tired of having to go through the grief of disappointment." But can you see that if I was willing to experiment, if you imagine I'm a scientist and I'm there with my experiments, with all of my apparatus there, experimenting something, and I try one experiment with one substance, doesn't work. Does he go, "Argh! I'm not doing any more now!"? Does he do that? No, see his faith and his passion drives him through that disappointment. He might even have a big cry. You look at a lot of scientists do have very emotional times throughout their developmental phases of whatever they're developing because it's pressure, pressure, they don't get the results they want, all of sudden they're having emotional experiences. They feel, "Argh it's all too overwhelming! I'm losing money; I'm worried about finances now." All of these emotional experiences continue happening but what keeps driving them is their faith that they will eventually find the solution. And they don't stop just because they're disappointed.

Participant: When we're talking about the qualities of love before, one of those ones that we didn't mention was patience.

Yeah. And it is true that we are always patient, even with ourselves - especially with ourselves, when we love. Yep.

10.2. Faith is not innate within our souls and needs to be developed

Participant: Hi, AJ. I've always believed that faith was a quality that was created in my soul when I was created. Just something indescribable, it was just there. There were no words.

And it's not. Remember the original message that I quoted was from Solomon, and in that original message he said, what is the thing on God's Side? It was the Divine Love. And then he said the thing on the human side was faith and prayer. Faith is not something that God had instilled in us by nature; faith is a quality, like many other qualities, that we are going to have to develop in our life. And whenever we have a feeling within us that's there already that we haven't developed, usually it's not from ourselves. It's usually from our guide, like our spirit guide or our spirit guardian giving us that impression. But it's not our own. [00:33:43.15]

There have been many people come up to me the first time they've met me, and say, "I know you're Jesus." And I go, "How do you know I'm Jesus?" "I just know!" And I say to them, "I'm sorry, mate, but you don't know. You've got no idea. You weren't with me in my first century life, you weren't with me in the spirit life, you know none of my experiences, and you have got no idea. All you've got is a spirit telling you that they know, and you think it's your feeling."

Many of these feelings that we think we have are not actually our own. They're feelings that come from other people, spirits that we cannot see, many of them.

Spirits with us can give us feelings that we falsely believe are our own

What I'm suggesting is faith is a personal quality, not a quality that's given to you. It's something that you're going to have to develop within yourself. Nobody else can give it to you.

Participant: So is that like a Christian belief that faith is just there.

Yeah there are many Christian beliefs. One of the Christian beliefs is that God even chooses the people who have faith. That is not true. There is this whole concept of the chosen people, or the chosen race. That is not true. None of these things are true. And if you think about it, if God is a loving parent, none of these things could be true because a loving parent would give the same opportunities to every child, not just to a few. So all of us have the same opportunities available to us to develop faith but it is a quality that we need to develop by choice through a process, not a quality that we're going to be able to even intellectually develop, and it's not a quality that we're going to be able to have somebody give us.

The reality is, I could levitate before you and it would still not cause your faith to grow. Why? Does anyone know why that would be the case?

Participant: Because we haven't experienced it.

Exactly. Just because someone else can do it, it doesn't mean you can. It just means they did. And it doesn't mean you believe you can. True faith is all about you believing you can, not anybody else telling you that you can, not anybody else explaining to you that you can, not anybody else convincing you that you can, but actually you coming to believe within yourself that you can, and that is a personal experience. That's not something anybody can give you, that's something that you need to embrace for yourself.

It's like somebody can play the piano and you can come along and say, "That's beautiful playing of the piano. I know I can do it." Fair enough, you know you can do it, but until you do it, you won't believe you can. That's the reality. And this is why the personal experience is essential with faith. If you try to avoid the personal experience you will not gain faith. You can't have somebody else develop your faith for you.

Participant: Quick question, AJ. I thought the seed of faith was always in us? Because like in my experience I always had some sort of faith but like...

But like I just said, Fab, for a lot of us, here we are, sitting on Earth, we have a spirit guide who has faith because they have had a personal experience and all they're doing is telling us, "You can do this. You can do this." They're trying to encourage you to do it for yourself but until you do it for yourself faith won't really exist. All that's happening is you're being influenced by someone who's a positive influence on you, and they're showing you that it's possible.

So when you come along to these discussions with me, all I'm doing is trying to show you that it's possible but I can't do it for you because nobody can. Even God cannot do it for you because to do so God would have to break the Law of Free Will. So even God cannot do it for you. You are the only person that can do it for you.

There are so many qualities actually within you that you have the potential to develop that only you can develop through a process. And only you can do it. Nobody else can do it for you. So many of us want everyone else to do it for us. We're addicted to other people doing lots of things for us. That's how we live our lives most of the time. [00:38:52.11]

10.3. Desiring God to take our pain away blocks a connection with God

In the break Graham came up and he was asking me about why he wasn't feeling God's Love entering him, even though he believes that God exists and so forth. I described that it's like this. Most of us have these holes within us; let's call them a hole full of pain. What we want is the pain to go away, so we choose all sorts of methods for the pain to go away. One of the methods is we project out to other people, "Please make my pain go away," and they then give us a feeling that makes our pain go away. Now that's called an addiction.

We use addictions to help cover up our pain

You know what most of us expect from God? We expect God to meet our addictions. In other words what we want in a relationship with God is when we're longing for God's Love we're not really longing for God's Love most of the time, what we're longing for is for God to make our pain go away. Is that not true? You think of how many times you've actually prayed to God in your life, most of the time isn't it when you're longing for God to make your pain go away?

Now the beautiful thing about God is that God never feeds your addictions. Other people will come along by the way and feed them, but God will not. What God wants is for you to get to that pain and get rid of it. So when you have faith and you really long for God's Love, God's Love starts entering you and then the pain is exposed, not covered over. It's exposed.

Now when many of you start having your pain exposed, what do you do? You try to cover it back over. And that shuts down the entire process. Because you do not have any faith that the pain can be released, you want God to make the pain go away. In other words you want God to enter an addiction with you. And God's going, "No, no, no. I'm not entering any addictions with you. I would like you to let go of this pain that's like your big black hole so that it's no longer there anymore and trust that when you do this I'll be with you, helping you through this process with you." But most of us don't want to do that.

God helps to expose our pain so that we can release it

What we do is we finish up doing this - we start having the pain exposed and we want the layer back, so we try to get the layer back. When we get the layer back, we close down the process. When we close down the process, we're no longer experiencing Divine Love. Experiment with that. Experiment next time. Next time, instead of going, "God I want You to get rid of my pain," instead of doing that, go: "God I want You to help me feel my pain." And see how much Love you receive during that process in comparison with the processes that you've already been having. Do the experiment. All we need to do is do the experiment.

If we do the experiments, you will find that the way God does everything is with pure intention. So what happens then is if I have this feeling of wanting God's Love, which is prayer, and I do not receive it, I know there's something in me blocking it. And I know that it's got to be something about my pain because that's where I always try to put a cover over, and I know that for sure.

11. Necessary areas in which to develop faith for a relationship with God

What I would like to do with you now is talk about some of these things that we need to have faith in if we're truly going to engage this relationship with God. Now I'm not talking about the faith that we can have generally about physical things, about, physical laws. Now I'm starting to talk about the real big law, the universal Law of Divine Love, and how you can go through the experiment by having some faith in some basic things about that law. So let's go through them.

Now of course the things that you have faith about you don't necessarily know are true at this point. It's just a faith that you're going to experiment with until such a point that it's demonstrated that it's true to you. So if we're talking about our relationship with God and receiving Divine Love, what do you think logically is the very first thing to experiment with? Any ideas? From a logical perspective?

Participant: Have some faith that God actually wants or desires to have a relationship with you.

Yeah, I'd put that down around four or five, probably. What's number one?

Participant: Desire?

Yeah I'd put that even further down, actually.

11.1. God exists

Participant: That God exists.

Ah! That is a big one, is it not? How can you have a relationship with a God that you don't believe exists? I'd say that's pretty hard, myself. It's like saying, "Look Joy doesn't exist." How can I ever have a relationship if I don't believe Joy exists, with Joy? Impossible. So this is the very first thing to experiment with. Don't you think? This is the very first thing to concentrate some effort on. Does God exist or not? It's a big question. There are certain things that I can do to find out whether God exists, but it's worth answering that question first, isn't it? Okay.

So having some faith that there is the potential that God exists and then making some experiments that might prove to yourself that God actually does exist would be a great way to start. Forget about the religious indoctrination you've had in the past, forget about the religions and what they believe about it all, forget about all of those different things, focus on firstly on this thing - do you feel inside of your heart that God exists and if you don't, how can you ever have a relationship with a God that doesn't exist? Impossible. To you, whether God really exists or not is immaterial. If God doesn't exist to you, you're never going to have a relationship with God. [00:46:21.14]

So firstly we need to start looking at whether God exists.

11.2. God loves

What's next, do you think?

Participant: That God loves?

God loves. This is where most religions on Earth have already failed - point number two. What do most religions on Earth believe what about God? That God is angry, punishing, will destroy the wicked, destructive, and so forth. All of those things are not about love. Already the test of most religions has failed in regard to faith because they haven't established a faith in a God of love.

To be honest, the majority of you have yet to establish a faith in a God that loves. It's not that easy establishing that kind of faith because in the day-to-day life that we have, we often feel like we're being tormented or punished for something, and all these other feelings that we have, and so we don't necessarily see it as it truthfully is. So in the end we start thinking that maybe God's this angry God, like my daddy was, who punishes me every time I step out of line and only rewards me when I do the right thing. That's how we see God. That's not a God of love. What we're seeing is a god, what I would call an autocratic god. We're not seeing a God of love; we're seeing a god of rule, of iron, usually.

All of these Bible concepts that Jesus would come and destroy the wicked, and God will bring the great day of the war of God the almighty to the Earth, and that's actually a quotation from the Bible, believe it or not - that God is a god of war and will actually bring destruction to the Earth. There is a Christian belief from many Christians that they believe that the Earth will be burned with fire in the last days. A mass murderer - that's the god they believe in. God is no such thing.

If we can't accept a God of love how could you ever ask for love from God? The majority of us have huge blockages to understanding that God is a God of love. If we just had some faith, and if we went, "Right, okay, I'm going at least even start with some intellectual concept that God does love and whenever I feel that God does not love, I might be out of line with that concept," would be a great place to start.

11.3. God's Laws are loving

What would you say would be the next thing? Three?

Participant: God wants to have a relationship with me personally?

Yeah, I'd put that further down the list somewhere. What's the structure in which you live? Here's your clue.

Participant: That God did create everything in the universe.

Okay, which means that God created what?

Participant: Me!

No before the universe could exist something had to...

Participant: He created the laws.

Yeah. There had to be a structure in which the universe could exist in order for the universe to exist. The structure is the laws. So here's number three - God's Laws are loving.

Now if we had some faith that God's Laws are loving, we would be very circumspect about our lives if we had some of that faith. Every time we had a negative event, we'd be going, "Well there's a law involved here that's caused this negative event to be a part of my life. There's got to be something in me that attracts these events. There's some law that's in operation here causing these events." If we trusted that, we would believe that, if we had faith in that.

Most of us don't have faith in that. What do most of us do? We go, "Something bad happened, God's a bastard." They even call things that happen "acts of God". The whole insurance industry has it all written in legal terms about "acts of God". Who's an insurance broker here? Is that not true? "Acts of God," all in legal terminology.

Mankind has this presumption that anything that's bad happens must be God's fault, and many of us have this emotion inside of us about our personal lives. Anything bad that happens must be somebody else's fault and the underlying viewpoint that we have is that ultimately it must be God's. [00:51:49.05]

Now that is going to stop you from ever wanting a relationship with God, if you believe that. Why would you want a relationship with a God who's a mongrel and makes terrible laws? (Laughter) It's like saying, "Oh I want to have a relationship with Stalin because he's such a nice fellow." (Laughter) Stalin was a mass murderer, yes? Well God's a far worse mass murderer according to the Bible. At one time in the Bible history it says that God destroyed everyone except for seven people. Now isn't that what you call a mass murderer? Now if you believe in a God like that, do you think you're going to want to have a relationship with them? Or do you just think you'd be scared shitless about having a relationship, as we say in Australia. Scared. And this is why most people in the world are totally frightened of God - because there are these concepts of God that are almost in every religious faith.

Do you know on the planet at the moment there are 2.2 billion Christians? There's about 1.9, I think it is, billion Muslims. If you add up the religious faiths, it turns out that I think it's about 84% of people on the planet actually have a religion. The majority of people do have a concept that there is a God that exists, so they have no trouble with number one - God exists, but the problem is number two - God loves, and number three \- God's Laws are loving. They have no concept that there is a God of love that exists or a concept that all of God's Laws are loving.

How can you expect to ever want a relationship with a God that has no love for you, and is willing to punish you till hell freezes over, as the saying goes? It's going to be very, very hard for you to want a relationship with such a person I would suggest. There is this constant thought that God is arbitrary in the way that God delivers punishment. In other words, God decides, "Ah I like that fellow, I'll let him get away with murder. I don't like that fellow very much, he's just got to swear and I'm going to punish him." There is this concept that people have on this Earth that God is arbitrary in the way in which God delivers justice. If we believe these things, that God is love and that God's Laws are loving, that would not be possible.

There are also these concepts where some religions view themselves as more important than others. They see themselves that we're the ones who are saved. Now if God loves all of Her children, who's God interested in saving? All of Her children. Not just the children who have a certain intellectual concept or a belief system or a doctrinal structure, but rather children who just want to have a relationship with God. God would even want to save the ones that don't want to have a relationship with God, and in fact God has a whole way of saving such people. But most of us don't believe it. Most of us don't believe any of those things because we've grown up in an environment, in a family environment generally, where sooner or later somebody punished us whenever we got out of line, and they rewarded us whenever we were in line, and so that's what we think God is - a person who rewards us and punishes us, depending on whether we're in line or out of line. That's what we believe.

Participant: Would it be important to clarify that there is one true God?

Yeah, well that's what I was speaking of here when I say, number one - God exists. There can only be one, I would suggest. If there is one at all, there only can be one, not hundreds and thousands and millions of them. There is one Supreme Being who was the source of all things, if there was ever such a being, there has to only be one. If we believe there's hundreds of thousands of gods, then my suggestion is sooner or later you'll find behind all of those gods there is one who all of those people, or all of those gods, accede to. But again you don't have to make the assumption, you can do the experiment. Try to believe in a hundred thousand gods and try to connect with every one of them and see where it takes you, and see whether that takes you in the same direction as connecting to one of them and seeing where that takes you, the one that's supreme. [00:56:25.23]

We make an experiment of every single thing. Every single thing. But it's a personal experiment. No amount of somebody talking to you is going to convince you unless you go through your own experiments. Now you can get together and share your experiments with others and they go, "Oh, that's a good experiment. I'll try that too." You could easily do that. But in terms of telling someone the results of your own experiment, then all you're doing is doing what I'm doing (laughs), and it's not very effective, is it? Have you seen that? How many of you have had the personal experiment that you know for certain you've received Divine Love after five years of listening? How many of you know? That's not a large percentage is it? So having someone tell you doesn't make much difference, it's only when you engage the experiment that things will change.

What else could we have faith in? So we've talked about God exists, many of us here have flirted with that one and sort of have a tick on it. Many of us here are not so certain about this one - God loves, or this one - God's Laws are loving. In fact on a daily basis I hear many of you cursing one of God's Laws, called the Law of Attraction. You don't like that law very much at all. So that's not a belief that God's Laws are loving, is it? And in fact the majority of us still are flirting with the idea or concept that there is a loving God. I can understand why, because historically for tens of thousands of years on this planet there is the underlying idea and concept that's been prevalent that God is a punishing, wrathful God, who destroys people that we've got to sacrifice for. Years ago they used to sacrifice their own children, the first borne of their own children, for this God. And they felt that whenever they did that they would have a good harvest, they would have a good life next year and so forth.

What's the difference between that and the sacrifice of Jesus for God? Not much. It's now one person sacrificing his life for God. Does God require a sacrifice at all? No, but many of you believe you are sacrificing every day still with your relationship with God. So that means you still believe it \- that God requires sacrifice.

You see just because you're told something, it doesn't mean that anything changes in your heart. You can be told thing after thing after thing, the truth even, facts about God, and not believe them. You're only going to believe them when the facts that God exists, God loves and God's Laws are loving start to become your personal experience with God. And the only way you're going to do that is to have a personal experience with God, and that's completely independent of anybody else that's ever lived or ever will live. There are things people can do to help you, they can tell the truth of their own experience, but even that is not going to convince you. Something inside has to change before you'll be convinced to try the experiment.

11.3.1. God loves me

Let's go for another thing we need to have some faith in. So far the list is about God universally. Now let's look at God personally as some of you have already raised. So what was one of the ones that you mentioned, Graham? That God loves me. Now can you see that if I believed that God is love the only thing limiting my belief of that God loves me is whether I feel I am loveable. Can you see that if I actually knew that God was a God of love in my heart, then the only reason why I would not believe that God loves me is because I feel that I am unworthy of being loved. And even then it would be a challenge, wouldn't it? If you accept that God is love then you surely would have to accept that God loves me.

11.4. God's Attributes and Qualities

Participant: So on that thought if I had a feeling that God just slipped off on the assembly line on that day and made me a bit faulty...

Made a faulty mould?

Participant: Yeah!

Just for you!

Participant: Just for me! Because I'm special.

Yeah God's an idiot sometimes, eh? He just has a day off, bang! Look what happens! (Laughter)

Participant: It was that seventh day that He rested, you know.

The seventh day He rested! You were made on the seventh day that He rested! Who made you then?

Participant: Exactly!

Exactly.

Participant: So that would come under believing God is a God of love, who is perfect?

Exactly.

Participant: It's the same kind of thing?

Yes. Exactly. We could even put that above God loves me on our list.

Participant: Yeah God is perfect. Okay.

But let's globalise it and say, what we're seeking for is what are God's Attributes and Qualities? And one of those attributes is perfection.

Participant: Or infallibility, I guess I'd call it too.

Yeah, pure infallibility. Perfection. See none of us will ever have that. We all seem to think we will at some point but we won't because we're continually growing towards God. God is the one that has it and we can become more perfect, but whenever you expect yourself or someone else to be perfect, you're way out of line with God because only God's perfect. We can approach perfection. You must become perfect as your Heavenly Father is but at the end of the day, we must acknowledge God's attributes and qualities at some point. We need to know what they are. How can you have a relationship with someone that you don't know what they are and don't even trust what they are?

So these are still universal issues, and I'd like to put a few more universal issues that probably none of you are ever going to come up with. Any more universal ones do you think we could add to this list that are not a part of those things?

Participant: That God is an entity? Or personable?

Yeah I feel this is all about God's attributes and qualities.

Participant: Infinite.

Infinite? Yeah I feel that's a part of God's qualities and attributes as well.

Participant: God loves all His children equally.

Yeah I think that's a part of God loves actually.

Love is not something that can be unequally displayed. If it's unequal then it's not love. Do you follow me? Then it's a bartering system or some kind of transaction where we're getting something back from this person that we like better than the other person. If you truly love, you love everyone the same. God truly loves us, so God loves all of us the same. And it's immaterial what we do, whether we're evil or whether we're good or whether God loves us still. We might not feel that love of course, because of our condition, and in fact many of us don't feel God's Love because of our condition.

Participant: I was going to say God was impartial, but that comes under just what you said.

Participant: God rules.

Yeah I think that's a part of God's attributes and qualities and part of God's Laws are loving. I don't think you're going to guess my next one because it's not about God. (Laughs) So now that I've given you that clue do you want to have a guess?

Participant: That faith might actually work?

Well that's why we're having faith, is to work out that things might actually work.

Participant: Or prayer might actually engage this and work?

Yeah, no I'm thinking more universal still, not individual yet. Not individual yet. Do you want me to tell you? Okay.

11.5. Jesus is trustworthy

(AJ writes on the whiteboard - Jesus is trustworthy) (Laughter) I told you none of you would guess it! (Laughs) (Applause) The reason why I bring it up though is because I've had a personal experience with God, a personal experience that many of my brothers and sisters in the spirit world have also had. And when I talk to you about God I'm saying to you that God exists, that God is a God of love, that God's Laws are all loving, I'm telling you about God's Qualities and Attributes, and what I'm saying to you too is you can trust me with it. You can trust a lot of these things.

When I say that I'm giving you a personal opinion, so when I say that, so when you ask me questions about Earth changes and other things like that and I say I'm giving you a personal opinion, don't trust that! (Laughter) You follow me? Because it's just my personal opinion. It's as much value as your own personal opinion, and I'd say that's next to no value at all, just like mine. (Laughs) [01:07:06.12]

But when it comes to the Divine, the experience that we've had, now you can trust that. You can trust these truths. Do you understand? Many of you don't trust me yet. You know how I know? Because you haven't started the experiment with God yet. Many of you have come along for five years listening, and why are you doing that? Because you like what you hear a lot of the times. That's why you do it. But you don't like it enough yet to do the experiment. But it's only the experiment that will give you the faith and then the certainty.

I wanted to remind you that what I'm talking about here can be trusted. And that's a universal thing. There are a lot of people on this Earth - 2.2 billion people on this planet - who have based their belief systems on some things that they thought I said 2000 years ago, that I did not say. I'm suggesting to you, if you're going to have any faith at all in God, trust what I'm saying to you about God. You don't have to trust me necessarily, although in the end you're going to have to come trust me sometime. You're going to listen to me for five years, what's the point of doing that if you don't trust me? At some point you're going to have to believe that I am trustworthy. You're going to have to accept that at some point. And when I say have to, I don't mean that you have to be forced to, I'm saying that sooner or later you'll have to come to see what I'm saying about God as being truth if you really want to have any faith.

Now most of you are still resisting that quite a lot. So when I talk about a loving God, you sit there inside going, "Grr, I don't like God at all. Look what God's done to my life." There's so much rage inside a lot of time. Igor and I had a lovely chat about this and Igor said, "You know I just realised the other day I've got so much anger about God. I just need to tell God God's a bastard and get it out of my system." And to be honest that's how many of you need to do things first. You need to let go of this pain that is inside of you, through this experience that you've had that's been out of harmony with love and truth, where you've believed things in the past about God that are completely false but you've accepted them so much so that you're lived your life by them for a long period of time and had a lot of pain as a result. You're going to have to let that go somehow emotionally if you're ever going to have a relationship with this God of love.

So I'm saying you can trust me and sooner or later everyone on this planet, if they want to have a relationship with God, is going to trust somebody who already had a relationship with God. And the reality is there are lots of Celestial spirits now who have a relationship with God and all of them are trustworthy.

11.6. Desire, longing and prayer would be natural if we had faith in God

Okay, so once we've got through all of that, can you see that the desire for God, or shall we call it what it really is, a longing for God, which is, if we want to define that as well, prayer, would be natural, would it not? If you fully understood everything about God, even before you understand yourself, would you not want to have a relationship with this God, if such a relationship was possible? I would suggest that we would. [01:11:06.06]

11.7. The truth about the human soul

Now below that - desire, longing and prayer - there are many other things that we need to start having faith about, and may I say they all revolve around yourself and your own capacity? You need to have some faith that you can change. You need to have some faith that you can become more loving. You need to have some faith that if you give up your addictions you're going to be happier, not sadder.

There are a lot of personal things that you need to develop faith about that are all a part of finding out the truth, the actual facts, about the Laws of Divine Love. We need to have some faith that when I ask for love and don't receive it that it must be something going on with me because it certainly wouldn't be anything going on with a God of love who's perfect, who made perfect laws that govern how the operation of love works. It has to be me that's blocking that all, and I need to have faith in that - that it is me; that I have the power, through my will, to change the future of my existence if I engage this faith.

So I need to start having some faith in myself. Many of you are willing to start engaging some faith in God and at the same time you're still trying to avoid any faith in yourself. You can't do that and obey the Laws of Divine Love, which are the highest laws in the universe.

### 11.8. Jesus is trustworthy (continued)

Participant: I'm sort of struggling with the Jesus is trustworthy comment. From the perspective that I'm not too sure that I trust anything much at all.

I'd agree with that. Most people don't. And in fact the problem is worse in the Western world than it is in any other place; we've become so jaded. As a society, we think that everyone's got their own agenda, we think there are no good people, there are only people who are going to manipulate us and so forth. Why do you think the media have been on and on and on at us about cult and all that kind of stuff? For the majority of the time it's because they're afraid because they do believe there's no one you can trust, and you certainly can't trust a guy who says he's Jesus. There's been plenty of experience of that in the past too, hasn't there?

Participant: But it's not so much you; it's my doubt or my jadedness.

Exactly. So when you guys think of me as AJ, have you noticed that you can trust me more? Isn't that interesting? I find that interesting. But when you think of me as Jesus you start thinking you can't trust me at all. Can you see the problem?

This is the problem we've had with the growth of Divine Truth - as soon as I say to a person who I am, most people run away. The media wants to say that they come to me because I'm saying who I am. No, for most people it's opposite. My personal experience has been the opposite of that. Do you remember the very first time I said to you that I was Jesus? Some of you were present, remember in Peter's hall there that Peter's got on the side of his house, on that very first time that I said it publicly, five and a half years ago. Some of you were there. And you remember the feeling? I remember Mary told me that she was just going, "No, no! Don't say it! Don't say it!" (Laughter)

Mary: I wasn't even there! I was watching the DVD! (Laughs)

Exactly! (Laughter) If I just said, "I'm AJ, and I'm going to teach you these truths," many of you might have accepted them by now. But because I'm saying I'm Jesus many of you still have a large problem with accepting them. I'm saying to you, if you can at least see my character is trustworthy, you would at least start the experiment. I'm not asking to have anything from you aside from starting the experiment. I'm not even asking that from you. Many of you have yet to engage the experiment and I've talked to you for five years. Surely by now you'd realise that I don't have much investment in you doing it! (Laughter) I just present material, present material, that's all I'm doing to you, and hoping that at some point in time there will be a spark of faith inside of your soul that causes you to engage the experiment.

11.9. The truth about the human soul (continued)

I feel a part of this experiment is the next thing I'd like to talk to you about, and that is the truth about the human soul. In the process of engaging the experiment with God, you will come to have some faith in the human soul. You will have faith that you have a soul and that you are one half of it. At the moment the majority of you still have no faith in all of these other teachings that I've taught you. They're just intellectual concepts that you've been presented with and there's not been a personal engagement of them because there's not a personal engagement with God. [01:16:47.00]

12. An exercise to examine and build faith

So this is what I would like to leave you with tonight. Make a personal list of the things in which you know you don't have faith. So instead of trying to run away from them all, face them. Make a list of all the ways in which you don't have faith, starting with God, and be honest with yourself about it - really brutally honest with yourself about it. And then when you see that list, have faith that you can get answers to every single one of these issues you have with regard to God and your own self and your own life.

Now I suggest to you that if you have that kind of faith, the next thing that you will do is act. You will no longer be putting off actions. You will no longer be waiting for someone else to do it for you. You will no longer be reliant on someone else, including Jesus, to do it for you. You will wish to engage a personal relationship with your own parent, God, because you start to have some faith that there are going to be personal benefits in your own interaction with God.

At the moment many of us do not believe this, and that's why we are addicted to doing all the things we're doing on Earth, addicted in our relationships with other people, because we're so focused on getting all of these things met through those addictions, because we don't want to go through this experience with God for lots of different reasons. What I'm suggesting for you to do as a higher priority is to note down the areas where faith is lacking and start developing some experiments where you can figure out how to get some faith in those areas.

First you want to know where faith is lacking, and then you want to make some experiments for yourself that nobody else has control over, that you are willing to engage because you want to experience your own life rather than rely on other people to experience your life for you.

My suggestion would be to experiment with all of these truths about God first - that God exists, God loves, God's Laws are loving and God's Attributes and Qualities. You can forget "Jesus is trustworthy", experiment with all these truths about yourself next. That would be my suggestion to you.

Faith is going to be a key part in dragging you through all of those experiences. It will also provide joy. It's very rare that you see me in a down and out condition, is it not? Now I do cry but I cry as the result of receiving Love, having the pain exposed and letting the pain come up when I'm receiving it. I don't cry just because I'm frustrated and I didn't understand this law and I didn't understand that law, and all these kind of things. It's unheard of for me to now cry in those particular areas because I've found that all I need to do is receive Love and all of these pains will come out of me.

I'm suggesting to you to trust that same process - receive the Love, allow the experience of all of these painful things that will come out of you. It will come out of you if you let it. If you don't let it, it will stay in you and you'll be like this bottled up person frustrated that you're trying to receive Love, frustrated that your faith isn't growing into full confidence, into full awareness, into full trust. In five years time we'll be talking about this and you'll be going, "Yeah I still don't know if God exists," and that would be a shame. It doesn't matter what happens to me, it would still be a shame for you to come down five years later and say, "I still don't know if God exists yet." It would be much better if you knew for certain one way or the other. And if you feel for certain that God doesn't exist then try that as the experiment. [01:21:49.07]

12.1. Faith carries us over false beliefs about love

Participant: What about faith in love itself? If we have false beliefs about love, they're going to prevent us from receiving God's Love.

I agree, it's a big issue, isn't it? Like most people on the planet think that love is weak, love has no strength at all, there is no security in love, people fall in and then go out of love all the time, and you can't rely on it. If you're talking about love with a partner then there's no reliability with it, I agree. But do you know what's going to help you get over that? You'll start receiving God's Love and find that it's totally reliable every time.

Participant: Doesn't that require for me to deal with my false beliefs about love to receive God's Love?

Certainly you're going to have some faith that God loves you all the time. That's where the faith will carry you through the false belief. It will in fact carry you over the false belief. The false belief is that maybe God doesn't love me, or maybe that you can't trust love. But if you have faith it will carry you over the false belief. You won't live by your false belief anymore, you will live by faith.

Faith carries us over false beliefs

If you live by faith that means that you have a false feeling, a false belief, but you're willing to accept that maybe it's not true. Most of us are not doing that yet. Most of us are still saying, "I've got a false belief that you can't trust love, and I'm right! Don't you tell me that I'm wrong!" That's how most of us react when it comes to love. And I'm saying, no, if you really have received some Divine Love you will gather some faith that the false belief that love is not strong, that love hasn't got any stability. All of those false beliefs will disappear if you go through this experiment with God and you won't live by them anymore.

The majority are still by living by them. They're still going to themselves, "Yeah, there's no power in love. You look at what happens, last week somebody said he loved me and this week he's off with some other woman. That tells you there's no power in love." No it doesn't, it just tells you he's a fickle person who didn't love you in the first place! That's all it tells you. It doesn't tell you anything but you're believing it as a false belief. If you had faith and you actually had experienced some of God's Love, you would understand the constancy of it, and that it never disappears.

Participant: And it never takes from you.

And never takes from you, which is your primary fear, yes? That love is going to take from you. You'll find that. Of course love doesn't feed your addiction either, which is something you also want to have happen, so you'll find that God's Love doesn't do that either. So there you are wanting the addiction, swearing at God because He's not meeting your addiction. Feel all of that, let it all go, and have some faith that God, when you feel God's Love, it's when you're in a pure space.

What I find is that a lot of these false beliefs would just disappear from people if they had this allowance, and they always focused on the faith, a faith which involves the heart and the mind together - the logic and the experience. If they had some faith that God is a God of love. I can trust God. God's Laws are all loving; I can always trust that they're working perfectly. Always. And so if something's not working in my own life I know it must be because I'm out of harmony with the law somehow. I trust that even though I might not believe it yet. I have a faith that that is true.

When I say true belief, what I'm talking about now is actual fact will eventually come to me if I go through the experience and the experiment. So the actual fact is love is not weak like you believe it to be. But you won't know that fact until you first experience love like that. The majority of us on this planet have never experienced a love like that. All we've experienced is fickle love, and that's not love. But we called it love, and we believed it was love but it was just fickle addictions being met. When it's true, when love is true it's constant. [01:26:29.15]

If you notice it doesn't matter how angry you get with me, it doesn't matter how annoyed you get with me, how many terrible emotions you project at me, the next week I still love you. Have you noticed that? Many of you haven't noticed that yet. It's been five years and you still haven't noticed that. (Laughs) But if you noticed that you'd go, "Okay, if AJ's just got a little bit of God's Love in him, God must be infinitely more like that." God's not fickle with God's Love. You can be angry with God and God's still going to love you. You can be sad with God and God's going to still love you. You can be ashamed of God and God will still love you. God's not fickle. The only time that you will actually feel that is when you're open to the experience with God.

So my suggestion with regard to faith is, as I said, note down all of those things that you feel you do not have faith in, and then produce some experiments over the coming months that will help you develop faith in these areas through experience, by actually finding out how the laws operate yourself. Not anybody else - you, yourself. You can ask questions of people and work out things and read things and do all sorts of things to find these answers but do it as a high priority. Stop putting it off. Stop going to yourself, "Yeah I don't know if anybody can really work out whether God exists. I don't know if a God of love really does exist. That's not been my personal experience. I don't know if all God's Laws are loving. I don't know what God's Attributes and Qualities are, so I'm just going to ignore the whole thing and hope that at some point in the future it all comes to me somehow." It's not going to come to you that way.

No scientist, of which all of you are, has ever sat back in his lounge chair watching the telly and waited for the laws of the universe to be discovered by sitting on his backside. He might have discovered a law about the soreness of his backside at some point, however. (Laughter) The issue is we have to act if we truly want to find out for ourselves, what is the truth. We have to.

It's the same as you if you were a scientist looking at physical laws; you'd have to do something, you'd have to act. You'd have to have experiments. So treat your soul the same way. That's what I'm recommending to you. Have some faith in God's Goodness, and where you don't have faith, work on faith first because faith is what's going to draw you into your desires and draw you into a desire of having a relationship with God. Faith is going to do that. Faith is the underlying motivation for you to develop a relationship, and that's what I would like to suggest to each of you to do with regard to faith. [01:29:38.04]

13. Closing words

So as I've said, we produced a discussion about Solomon's message about faith, "20130410 Padgett Messages - 19160420A Solomon" and it will be on the Internet next week. My suggestion is incorporate that as a part of your understanding about faith. Have a listen to that presentation about the importance of having faith in this relationship with God.

Thanks for your time today. Thank you. (Applause)

