- Well hi, Tiddly, how you doing?
- Well hi, Taylor, how are you?
- I'm good, glad to have you here
and thank you so much for stopping by.
- Thank you so much for having me.
- You are a really awesome creator.
You play a lot of Destiny,
you play other games.
You also have a segment you
do called "Death By Song"
and we'll get into all of that, but first,
can you tell me how you got here?
- Between May of 2015 and January of 2016
I watched Twitch and I was active
and I modded on channels
and I got to know people.
It was really great
because I had been social
in the Destiny directory before
I started streaming myself.
So I was a moderator
for a partner streamer.
The first month I was on Twitch
I think she was getting between
500 and 1K viewers at the time.
- Wait, how did that happen?
You networked into that immediately
and then it was like, bang!
- I did!
She was newly partnered
and I was being friendly.
During that time I actually
built up 60 followers,
just me being friendly!
That's how I started out
and I think it's interesting
because I think I built a lot of skills
in terms of reading chat
as a moderator on Twitch.
And the chat was very active
and we had a very small modding crew.
Actually, I met my husband
on the modding crew also,
which was kind of cool.
- Really?
So you were modding and then you said,
okay, it's time for me to stream.
What was that moment for you?
- I just, like, new year,
new me, let's try this!
It sounds like fun, I
love playing video games,
I love talking to people,
I love Twitch chats.
So I decided to just press
the button and give it a go.
And my first stream was January 1st 2016
and I was working full time.
I had fun my first stream.
I had over 60 concurrent and
it was hugely successful,
so many people came.
Basically 2016, until I moved out
to Minnesota I was streaming part time,
so just on the weekends, kind
of like Saturday, Sunday,
or evenings when I could make it happen.
I think 2018 I started
streaming full time.
I quit my job, my day job.
Not to stream but just to
move in with my partner.
I streamed, just to keep some
kind of regular schedule,
I streamed Monday through
Friday, eight to 12,
which is the schedule
that I currently have.
And I kept that schedule
super, super consistent
and grew my stream and the
numbers kept on going up
and eventually I was hitting
50 concurrents regularly
and then 70 concurrents
and then 100 concurrents
and then I applied for partner.
And it took me about a year when I started
streaming regularly to get partnered,
from 2018 to 2019.
So I started streaming in 2016
but I streamed sporadically.
Took a long break, I took
like a six month break
off from Twitch--
- Can you tell me about
you taking a break?
- Yeah, I can.
- And why you did, and what happened?
- Sure.
I took a break because Twitch was becoming
too dramatic for me and I was
having a hard time at my job,
my full time job at the time,
and I wasn't having fun streaming
and I wasn't having fun
hanging out in chats because
it was basically just additional stress
over the job that I had,
which was already stressful.
So that's why I took a really long break.
And it was really, really
healthy and during that break
I didn't really engage in
chats, I didn't really stream.
I mostly just watched Twitch
and I would watch like
really big streamers
and just kind of have that
more video to person experience
than the interactive experience,
which was a really great thing.
It was a really good time
for me, really relaxing time.
And I started again when I was ready.
I took a really nice long break
and I think for me, I needed that.
I needed that for my own
sanity and mental health.
Any kind of platform like Twitch
is a social experience, right?
And then people are challenging
and you're dealing with
drama with the mods
or drama with regulars or, you know,
people have suicidal ideation
and you're their best friend
and you have to help them.
Like, these are all things
that happened to me.
And at the end of the
day, you're a streamer.
You're an entertainer.
So taking on all of this emotional weight
and being able to kind of have
a good work-life balance, so
to speak, when you're streaming
is not letting that kind of engulf you.
I kind of got engulfed for a
minute and I took a step back.
And then when I came back I
basically did it full time
and it went really great.
- Your whole Twitch
journey is now your life
where you started content creation,
or you modded for a stream.
- You did content creation--
- Yeah, on Twitch.
- You met your husband,
and now you're a full content creator.
- Yes.
- In terms of you getting to this point,
was there any sort of tension in your life
to get to this point now?
- Overall I wouldn't say anything was
overly awful (laughs) or
traumatic or stressful.
- Well, you started from
a place of strength.
- I think so, I really
never had to experience
what a lot of people go through
when they start streaming.
When they stream to like one person
and then they can't get the chat going
and then they're really frustrated.
I never had that, I always
had an active chat out.
I always had people show up.
I think a lot of that
has to do with networking
and networking within Twitch
with communities that I liked.
I mean, I like talking to
people so just generally
keeping questions going,
and keeping chat active,
I've always been really
lucky in that regard.
I've never really struggled with with chat
or with viewership.
- And so now, you are a full time creator.
Can you talk about what
that looks like for you?
- I treat it like a job actually.
I like structure, I mean,
I actually worked full time
before I started streaming full time.
I have a doctorate.
- What do you have a doctorate in?
- My doctorate's in education,
which is interesting.
- Oh!
- And has nothing to do
with telling fart jokes
on the internet, which is what I do now.
- But you are communicating
in a way with education.
- It's true, I think, I'm not necessarily
being didactic in stream, but I love the--
- Didactic.
- I feel like YouTube more
that Twitch is didactic
because you're consuming a
pre-produced content, right?
- Right, right.
- The reason I love Twitch
is that it's more like
Paulo Freire, it's kind
of like a co-created space
it's kind
of like a co-created space
where you're making this experience,
this learning journey together.
It's not something that you're
just giving the viewers.
And I think that definitely
differs depending on the size
of the stream, obviously,
like if you're looking at
somebody who has 50K viewers,
they're kind of more creating
a video experience for their chat
even though there are
live moments that can happen
which are exciting, I
think, which is different.
But I think that I love having a stream
that's still accessible
in terms of the chat.
I could read all of my chat, I
can interact with my viewers.
I can kind of have that
co-created experience where
they feel like they're
part of making something.
Any excellent learning
environment is a co-created space
where the students learn by
teaching the teacher sometimes,
and they kind of create that
learning experience together.
- When you're watching a video,
you're watching television.
It's a very kind of one-way experience
and you can be asynchronous with comments
and send messages but, you know,
Twitch or live streaming is
a very two-way experience
and you co-create content in that way.
Can you kind of maybe give
your philosophy or your tactics
to get people to interact and to get
that kind of co-creation going?
- The most important thing
obviously is consistency,
'cause I think essentially
what a streamer does
is they open a space and then fill it
with a community, right?
So you're opening up your coffee shop
and then all these people filter in
and they start talking
to each other, right?
And that's the ideal environment for me
is not just when I'm
talking to the viewers
but the viewers are
talking amongst themselves
because they're regulars
and they know each other
and they come every single day
and they know what to expect
and then we have these rituals
that we always do together
and that's exciting and
it's comforting, too.
It's comforting to have that experience.
So I think that's the most
important thing to start
is to be consistent and
create that space consistently
so people come and have
that chat experience.
Beyond that, I think
saying hello to everybody.
I'm asking questions and then
I'm also trying to engage
and not just getting them
to laugh but also to react
because if I'm feeling that reaction,
whether it's a bunch of emotes happening
or they're just making faces
and they're just, you know,
I will do that.
Like, for instance, I'll give
you good example of that.
I have a particular viewer
who is very triggered
by the Mariah Carey song "All
I Want for Christmas Is You."
And so whenever he comes by the stream--
- That's the only Christmas song I like.
- I love that song!
It's so good, right?
It's really excellent.
So, I basically, every time he's there,
I will play it and then basically say,
Happy Christmas in July!
And then the thing is,
people are super triggered by that
'cause they're like,
it's not Christmas yet!
Stop playing that damn song!
And I love that 'cause it gets people,
even if they're reacting like, oh my God,
I can't believe you're doing this!
They're still engaged and it's really fun
when you're having that moment together.
- But you're also creating a ritual.
- I have lots of rituals, absolutely.
I think, I always start
the stream the same way.
I do opening song and then
I do a period where I chat
with people and hang out
and catch up with them.
People come at the beginning of the stream
'cause they like chatting with each other
and they like hanging out with me.
And then I also have my
pet troll banning ritual
which is really fun and
then "Death By Song"
is definitely just replete with rituals.
It's something that has kind
of developed over time for me.
- Well, talk to me about this
development of "Death By Song"
because that's like a
cornerstone of your content.
- It's fun.
- Yes, you do play games, but
this "Death By Song" concept,
which I think is phenomenal,
how did that come about?
- It actually came from watching MOONMOON
who is an amazing content creator.
He used to do this thing, I'm
not sure if he still does it,
where if this person
came in and criticized
his musical choice, he would
basically turn around to them
and say, hey, well, why
don't you play me a song
that you like and see if chat likes it.
And basically if chat liked it then
he would alow them to stay
and if they didn't like it
he would permanently ban
them from the channel.
- Wow!
- So that was kind of
the inception of the idea
and I've always been kind
of fascinated by music taste
because I'm a very
open-minded music person
and I've like dated some
guys that were like,
I hate all that kind of music
and your music taste sucks
and blah blah blah, you know.
And I'm kind of like,
well, that's so personal,
how can you say your opinion is wrong?
I think that's really funny.
And music something that people
absolutely engage in
and are interested in.
But song requests, when
you turn them on in stream,
generally, you get trolled so much
and people just request random crap.
So "Death By Song" was, kind
of that was the inception
of the idea 'cause I was like,
that's a really fun thing,
maybe I can turn that
into kind of like a game
or a game show.
So I just tried it one stream.
I was like, okay, guys,
today we're gonna play a game
we're gonna call it "Death By Song."
You're gonna pick music
and then we're gonna
vote PogChamp if you like it
and WutFace if you don't like it,
which is great, 'cause I'm
engaging them with emotes.
And it was just really good.
It went really well, it was really fun.
I had no graphics, I had no
structure, I had no poll.
I was counting the PogChamps by hand
(laughs) it was very basic.
- Oh, my God! (laughs)
- It was very, very basic.
And the thing is, it just evolved.
When you're creating content, I think,
a really important thing to remember is
to lean into things that are working,
maybe even if it's unexpected.
So I leaned into that super
hard and I made it an event.
And then I repeated it
every Wednesday as a ritual
so people would know what to
expect, to look forward to.
And then it's grown to the extent
where people actually tell me
that they're hanging out in the shower
or they're in their car and they're like,
oh my God, Tiddly, I found
the best "Death By Song" song
and I can't wait to play it for you!
It's great, it's come to this point where
it's something that people look forward to
every single Wednesday
and they prepare for
and they get excited about.
And it's just really funny because
I will also, I'd kind of take on a persona
in that stream where I act like
supreme overlord, the Tiddly-arc.
And then I put on the crown
and I overrule them. (laughs)
Like, I love it, 'cause
my normal stream persona
is not necessarily that,
but it's really fun
to do in that context
because I'm essentially poking fun
at people who are super critical of music
because I'm not that way at all. (laughs)
But I think it's really
entertaining when people are like,
oh, your music taste sucks!
Your opinion is wrong!
'Cause I'm like, that's
so stupid. (laughs)
Like, there's no wrong taste in music.
Different people like
different music, it's okay.
- You said something
interesting about getting people
to use emotes to vote and in chat.
Can you go into why maybe
that's important to you
or why you think that's important?
- I think an emote is better
because it fits better
with the Twitch culture of spamming emotes
to kind of build excitement.
And I think it's more fun,
I think it's more fun when
you're spamming PogChamp
because it's expressing
an emotion visually
which is great, and
that's why I love emotes.
Emotes are so much fun versus
a number which is very dry,
it's not as exciting as,
like, somebody playing a song
and everyone's like, ugh, WutFace,
you know, you can see it represented,
the disgust and chat's spamming
and it's like filling up,
and you're like, oh, God,
that's terrible, you know?
I love that, it's so fun.
It's so much more fun than just a number.
- Well, people connect with it,
with faces, they connect with emotions.
- Yeah.
- People feel a reaction
if they see WutFace
and that's their favorite song.
- Right, right!
It gets contentious
sometimes 'cause people,
people will get upset, being like,
you WutFaced my song?
How dare you? (laughs)
- Which is totally different
than you number two'd my song.
- When your streaming, it's
kinda hard to describe,
but you have those really amazing moments
where things kind of synergize
and everyone is spamming the same emote
and it's just, you're like, whoa!
It's not like groupthink
but it's more like
kind of this common shared experience
that you're having together.
Which is really exciting
and fun and I feel like
"Death By Song" provides that in spades.
- So can you talk to me a little bit about
how you're able to drive
Discovery to your channel?
- Well, I think initially it
was just grassroots networking
and being friendly, at
least of terms of Discovery.
At this point I try to make
my graphics really interesting
so the thumbnail's interesting
when I'm talking about
Discovery on Twitch.
- So that when someone
scrolls through Discovery
and they see you, it's
visually interesting for them
as opposed to something that
looks like everybody else.
- Absolutely, and that's
why I also make sure
that I dress professionally
and fun for every stream
because I want everything on stream
to have an certain appeal and look.
And everything is very carefully curated
from my playlist to what I wear
to the environment behind me,
it's all created intentionally
to create a particular type
of experience for the viewer.
And I'm not trying be like (laughs)
ooh, puppeteer, or anything
but it's I just know
what type of experience
I want to provide.
- You're building a show.
- Yeah, I am.
I'm creating my own show.
I'm the producer, you
know, the CEO, CFO, tech,
director, I'm all of it.
I'm the marketing director,
I'm everything for my show.
- So for you, the only piece
of Discovery you use is Twitch,
is networking and thumbnail.
- Yeah.
- That's all you use?
Do you use social media,
Twitter, do you use YouTube?
- Oh, I do use Twitter I use Twitter
and I just started an Instagram.
I'm not as good at
marketing myself on Twitter.
But one thing for me that's
really important on Twitter
that whenever I tweet,
I actually tweet content
and I'm not just tweeting my go lives.
I'm never just usually tweeting just text,
like I always like to engage with visuals
and I think partly that is because
I'm very visually attracted to things.
So for me, making sure that
people have a visual experience
when they see a tweet from
me is really important.
I also, and this is a kind of funny tip,
I don't know if you know this,
but for social media using square pictures
is actually the best
picture format to use.
And I just, I went to a marketing talk
and some kind of big
marketing director was like,
yeah, always use square
pictures on social media.
So I took that and I
take that very seriously.
I usually use square pictures on Twitter
and everywhere else in social media.
Because apparently they crop better.
The images work better.
I feel like for me, a lot of what I do
is just create the space
where I share my
experience with my viewers,
so I'm approachable.
And I think that's really important to me
in terms of Discovery, is that people feel
that I'm approachable,
that they can talk to me
and they're comfortable with me.
So sharing details of my
personal life is important
because it makes me more approachable,
that's why fart jokes
for me are also important
because every time I self-deprecate
or do something super
ridiculous or silly on stream,
it makes me more
approachable to the viewer
because they're like,
oh, she's not some person
on a pedestal that I can't
talk to or engage with.
You know, she's just like me.
She's absolutely ridiculous. (laughs)
- And that leads us into engagement.
So why don't you tell me
how you can get people to engage with you
and when they land on your channel,
they stay, they don't just bounce away.
- Absolutely.
I think for me it's really important
to have kind of your elevator speech,
your Twitch elevator speech prepared,
like if you get raided or if you have
somebody new come by.
So I really strongly recommend
trying to think about
the best way to describe
your channel in the way
that's unique about you and your stream.
So you can basically sell yourself to
somebody new that comes in
or a new group of people who get raided.
'Cause I get raided frequently,
I have a lot of friends, caster friends,
and some of the communities
are super similar
so it's not a lot of people,
but sometimes I'll get raided
by somebody that I don't know
and I'll have a lot of new people come in
and I think that's your moment, right?
That's your moment to
kind of make it stick,
that's your moment to engage
them, to get them to follow.
So I will give 'em my elevator speech.
I'll thank them for being there.
I'll make sure to welcome
them in name by name
if I can get all of their
names. I'll say hello to them.
And then kind of go from there.
But I definitely pick
up on new people in chat
and I engage with them and
I think another great thing
is that I don't have to do it alone.
I actually have selected
amazing moderators
and they're fantastic in helping integrate
new people into the community.
If there's somebody new
and they're hanging out
and they're a really good fit,
like they're making funny comments
and they're really getting along
with everybody else in the group,
then the moderators will notice that.
They'll give them a sub which a wonderful,
wonderful tool to integrate
people into your community
or welcome them and say, hey,
you're great, we like you.
Here, have this gift
and maybe you'll stick
around and come back.
- You're trying to reward the people
who are making your content better.
- Oh, for sure!
And also punish people,
get them the heck out
that aren't good for your channel.
That community development is so important
and having amazing mods
that will do that for you
will help you when you're
streaming, like 1000%.
- Can you give me your elevator pitch?
- My elevator pitch?
Okay, sure.
Hi, I'm Tiddly, and I stream
mostly Destiny content.
We do "Death By Song" on Wednesdays
which is an interactive song competition
if you'd like to come for that
you're welcome to do that,
we do have that every Wednesday.
I have a doctorate and I tell fart jokes
so if you're interested in this channel
we basically have about
pretty average game play
but we have a lot of fun here
and I hope you're interested in
checking it out if it's for you.
So that kind of thing,
that's what I'll do.
I'll do like, this is what I stream,
this is what I'm providing,
and I never try to oversell,
like I'm never like, follow me now!
I never do that.
I think it's really important
that you don't encourage people
to follow to just follow.
I don't want everybody to follow.
I only want the people to follow
that are gonna work for the community.
- You're building your store,
you're building your local shop,
so that when people come in
they know what to expect
from the people there
and what they're getting.
- One of the wonderful things about Twitch
is that it is such a diverse platform
and there's so many
different kinds of streamers.
There's ones that are really super chill,
my stream is not super chill,
we're a very high energy morning stream.
But if you're looking for a chill stream
my stream is not gonna
be a good fit for you
and that's actually okay
and I'm super, super
comfortable with that.
I don't want my content to
be the best for everybody.
I want to create the best
possible content that I can
for the people who are a
good fit with my community.
- Obviously, there's a
revenue component here.
Is there something where you say,
this is the value I'm giving
and this is how I'm able to
get people to then spend money?
- No, I hear what you're saying.
I don't really think
about the financial aspect
of it too much, even though I'm full time.
My husband supports me so
I don't need it for income.
I definitely have merchandise
but it's more for fun and less for income.
Most of my money comes
in through subscriptions,
which is great.
Which I think demonstrates
sort of the loyalty
that I build in the channel.
- You've built up enough
trust and engagement
that people are willing to say,
I wanna make sure that you keep streaming,
so I'm going to subscribe,
I'm gonna give bits,
just as a way to say,
hey, I appreciate you
or that the content you have created
is something that I want perpetuate.
- The best way to engage people
in terms of if you're trying to build
sort of the financial
aspect of your stream,
like, if you get stuck in thinking about
what your community can do for you,
then that's completely the
wrong way to go about it.
It's kind of like when you
get those marketing mailers
and they give you free address labels?
It's exactly that.
Like, you should be thinking instead
what you can do for your community.
They're not going to give you anything
unless they see a value add, right?
You have to give value to get value.
I'm always trying to think,
what can I do for them?
How can I make my stream better?
- And I did subscribe to you for a while
and I will say I am very upset
that the value that I was
getting from your stream--
- The banana! (laughs)
- Was the three part banana,
and you removed the three part banana.
- Isn't that funny, how people
get so emotionally attached?
And I change emotes a lot
and people get so personally offended,
they're like, you took my favorite emote.
- Well, it's like the
emotes you're creating
are like t-shirts that
people love, you know.
- I never think you should be stuck.
I think that you should always
keep trying to push forward
and I do that with my emotes
which has not always gone over
well with community members.
- And that's all we have.
Thank you so much, Tiddly, for coming in.
So great to talk to you and I hope
the people got a great
understanding of your story.
And for all of you out there,
thanks for watching and
keep making great content.
See ya!
- Bye!
