And I think that's wrong.
I've encountered white people
who are in a relationship
with people of colour
who are still racist.
What the British Empire did 
 to black people,
when we can stay away from that 
 institution, it's a good thing.
If a man had his bum pinched, 
 he would never be traumatised by it.
I think that Me Too has gone 
 too far.
I don't think there's any connection
 between bum pinching
or knee touching and rape.
Don't you think that's...?
That's so sad 
 that you don't see that.
ALL TALK AT ONCE
The whole thing with Me Too
is that it never started out 
 to just be about rape.
It was a variety of things 
 that women were posting about.
I think it's so disappointing 
 that some men are just
taking that view of it, like, 
 when there's so much trauma.
At the end of the day, I don't know
if this is the direction
 you're going,
but the guys that have 
 done the most craziest,
disgusting things might be 
 compared to the guys who,
still they shouldn't have done it,
but maybe they were treading 
 on thin lines.
But it isn't comparable.
I think it's such a good thing that 
 we're able to have conversations
about smaller instances 
 of sexual mishaps.
They come with a great deal of 
 perspective. It prevents a situation
where every single one of my friends
can name three, four, five, 
 six, seven,
eight times where they felt 
 uncomfortable in a sexual situation.
I don't want my children to grow up 
 in a world like that, my daughters.
There are a lot of things, 
 as well, like catcalling.
Catcalling isn't a form of sexual 
 appreciation a lot of the time
it's done, it's to express 
 an invasion of space and dominance.
Because the minute you register 
 that you're not interested in it,
it can become quite abusive. Yeah.
One thing that I'm interested in 
 cos I think there has been
a kind of cultural shift is 
 that younger women feel as if
they can't stand up to these things 
 in the moment, whereas
a lot of older women think, give 
 them a slap, tell them to fuck off.
I'm one of those people where if 
 somebody catcalls me on the street,
I will shout back to them. 
 I don't have a problem with that.
But it still makes me 
 feel awful afterwards.
I just think it's too passive 
 and we need to really trust women
to negotiate relationships 
 in the moment.
But you've never been in the 
 situation before, have you?
You've never been... 
 You've never seen someone...
A lot of people haven't 
 been in a situation.
I'm not going to lie,
do you feel that there has 
 to be some sort of debate
on the flipside? Because 
 I have heard stories
of the exact same thing 
 happening to males
and I feel, cool, maybe 
 the numbers are not big enough,
but even if it happens to one male, 
 that is wrong.
Have you been catcalled?
What can I say?
This is the difference, isn't it?
When I get catcalled, 
 I'm like, "Oh, my God!"
And he's like, "Hey!" 
 I'm joking.
If any women want to harass me, 
 my DMs are open. Wow!
I promise you that 
 if a man had his bum pinched,
he would never be traumatised by it.
I would not believe them 
 if they said that.
I don't know, I pretty much grew up 
 presenting as a boy
and I did have it 
 and I did find it traumatising.
When I was growing up in school,
we didn't learn about 
 any of this stuff.
Yeah, we did have sex education 
 and whatever, but you didn't
learn about how to treat someone 
 or how to behave around them.
I don't think people necessarily 
 need to have a conversation.
People manage to have 
 sexual relationships
without this kind of formal 
 training. It can be non-verbal.
People have managed for ages.
People have managed, but have women 
 been managing for ages
or have we been ending up 
 in situations?
I feel like 
 we need to remember as well
that for centuries we have had 
 a culture where this has not
had to be discussed because consent 
 was almost a nebulous thing
that men didn't actually 
 have to think about.
And I feel like sometimes 
 the kind of gone too far thing
is like the burden is starting 
 to be handed towards men
to actually process this problem
and everyone gets very defensive 
 about it, it's really frustrating.
To be honest, I feel that
it could improve race relations.
It's in the mainstream,
everyone's going to be talking 
 about it internationally.
A duchess from a certain 
 background who is now
going into the royal family, it's 
 almost like monumental, unheard of.
Cos you've used the phrase 
 "race relations",
I've encountered 
 white people
who are 
 in relationships
with people 
 of colour
who are still racist. Yeah. 
 And I've encountered white people
who have children who are mixed race
 who are still racist.
I think there are too 
 many ingrained issues
to do with racism, 
 prejudice, colourism.
There's been a lot 
 of liberal fawning over
the potential of 
 this marriage,
that the monarchy has kind of 
 finally got a lick of diversity
and therefore it's OK.
That really disturbs me because 
 I think we should be focusing
on the fact that we still have 
 a bloody monarchy.
They're used as, like, charity 
 mascots where we have a government
that doesn't address social 
 injustice, so it doesn't...
If it's not funnelling in money to, 
 say, knife crime, it's like, send in
the royals as kind of like... 
 Again, it's all like benefactors.
The only way 
 they can relate to us, the public,
is through charity, it's as if 
 we're all charity cases, basically.
Actually, as people,
William and Harry have always 
 seemed kind of all right.
I believe that they care about 
 their charity work as individuals.
But the entire system of monarchy 
 is a PR stunt.
Like the whole thing.
I think, with Prince Harry... The 
 British Empire, it's inherently 
 racist.
So some of the problems I don't know
 about, like going into inner-city
black communities... I don't 
 believe that it's like a PR stunt,
like, yeah, I need to go 
 and visit these communities
because it's going to make us 
 look good.
What a lot of people need 
 to understand
is that they are human beings 
 as well.
I don't have a problem with them 
 going in to speak to people
and doing all this crap. I just 
 think people shouldn't listen.
Not because they're 
 black communities,
because it's Prince Harry. 
 I don't totally agree.
He's nothing of value to add 
 to anyone's life.
I totally feel that saying, oh, 
 Harry's getting married to Meghan
so now he's going into black 
 communities, I feel that
when people say that, it can be 
 a very dangerous thing to say.
And I don't totally agree with it.
I don't believe... 
 OK, you know what you need to do?
You need to read 
 Benjamin Zephaniah's essay
on why he rejected his OBE 
 in the 2000s.
Last year, I accepted my honour 
 from the Queen last year. No!
So I'm ready to help. That was 
 such a mic drop moment. Yeah, yeah.
No-one's ever given me anything. 
 I'm expecting mine in the post.
I'm glad you got 
 recognition for that
because of what the British Empire 
 did to black people.
I think when we can stay away
from being involved with that 
 institution, it's a good thing.
Yeah, definitely.
But people need to understand it 
 from the flipside.
I was recognised by the Queen.
I remember when I received 
 a letter in the post
and immediately you do have those 
 thoughts going through your head.
You do hear the empire within 
 the name and all of that.
But from where I'm from, 
 people don't have these experiences,
people don't get to meet the Queen, 
 people don't hear about this.
I'm from Brixton where it's rough.
I always go back to this quote from 
 Solange because pop culture...
She was just talking about how 
 you can build your own institutions,
like make your own awards and be 
 the gold you want to hold, my Gs.
Because, like, for black people, 
 we don't have to be ascribing
to these systems and these 
 awards ceremonies,
we can make our own awards.
Definitely, but... 
 We can recognise each other.
I thought in that way as well, 
 totally,
that can be taken 
 out of proportion.
A lot of people just want 
 to be negative.
Sometimes just live your life 
 and be, like, good.
