we have Aubrey de Grey here today - introducing him -  he is chief science officer at
SENS Foundation and we're here to talk about longevity advocacy and action in
preparation for Longevity Day which is
on October the 1st - we're going to begin
with Aubrey discussing some of the updates from SENS over the last couple of
years
Yeah, certainly - so first of all thank you very much for doing this especially given
the technical issues we have recently encountered - so yes, over the past 2 years things have been moving pretty fast
really you know when I when I think
about questions like this I'm always
torn between whether I should be pleased or disappointed about the rate of progress
there is always such a variation - but i guess I'm fairly pleased. Two years ago we had really only
had one big success in the lab that had got to the point of an impressive proof of concept that
people had historically thought we would never do - and that was in relation to our project
working on atherosclerosis.  In 2012 we
published a very groundbreaking paper
showing that by introducing a bacterial
gene into human cells we could protect
them against the major toxin, the number one toxin that drives the progression of atherosclerosis.
But it was a bit of a one off - we needed to be doing this across the board - and  now we really are beginning
to get there - the last year we had a similar
but the more impressive action with
regard to engage consumers are systemic
amyloidosis
to be the number one killer of a group
that we've landed we're able to
demonstrate the big programming stuff
using a special couple more things like
that kind of guy that we're getting more
and more locations happening with the
ability and integrity
in addition to that would make a really
great progress of the airport we have an
education initiative small way when you
go on and on
mentoring students who need to get
involved while writing during the past
few years
activity education initiative now in
touch so we have 20 injured some of them
in our lab and other Indian Boston
including one and this is a fantastic
way to bring me into the undergraduate
level people and to get them really
understand what we're going out with the
other outreach thing that's really going
well and we've extended conference
conference series started back in 2003
and 614 we first time running in
california in there and it went
extremely well and we didn't stick ball
back on just one month ago again in the
difference between those conferences
relative to the one that we doing which
i think is the California one lot more
variety in terms of well being pretty
much exclusively academic we have
involving large button and from other
people like you know regulatory experts
policymakers as well so it is rather
more
Virginia 23320
what you got and legitimize the whole
that much more than I could possibly do
standing on stage you getting to be more
important level of scientific other
people and now I think you look at that
time to pro damage and not only in
Dorset reinvented
happy about that
well really only that the hard part of
the Asian place of this makes you need
more of that and that really now what we
need to get on with it
of course not completely really are who
were at national funding and he is
really really think absolutely i mean
like I think he said somewhere where we
had a billion dollars you'd probably be
over 20 you estimate you could have the
solution 10 years earlier but up to you
my number I think money when exactly the
right when I would say we have a 50 50
chance which work well under batista I
will ask to the ball well we have a
really exciting perhaps grab on damage
within about 20 or 25 years from now
whereas if we could change struggle
especially over 10 years only stayed
with it then that's going so slowly I
think even though we will catch up later
on the bus
nevertheless we will be in return
so well I had a look on your skis for
his or her effective altruism
out of 52 votes instead of goodwill and
blogging about science and this is
focusing on areas that they be under
populated and funded and have the
potential for high impact but it's a
little bit difficult to measure the
outcomes dollar-for-dollar and unified
units efforts so how do you prioritize
where two funds when her family you know
wide-ranging on the whole country to
affect about the most in my mind really
that they've all been shown by banks
floods that they also have become what
we do what they want to reach within the
affected communities in with regard to
try to actually wear the long term I
risked our game is something that should
be prioritized members of the more
conservative wing to give welfare
organization that holds a degree of
leverage can generation of games but in
practice the only thing to their to
recommend banding
talked about this and he is firmly
in that she is not just got incalculable
up another word basically you are always
going to be over well we all were up to
me I want you never going to be able to
make what you won't get well be able to
golf community which is actually make
national quantitated
of estimated time for me but now there
are certainly plenty developing and
evaluating commuting to you jacking up
to that even if they later than like
anti-aging way of optimistic still money
because they were in there so I let you
buy it on the last time we talked about
general will tend to gravitate to the
more spectrum but it remains to be seen
it yet but i think is very there is some
interesting impact you too so
astronomical future even if it even if
there isn't like it as much focus on
that is what I would like to see it it
useful because effective altruism does
give at least some recognition to
astronomical impacts and a lot of the
existing charities may not be aware lot
of people who sort of donating to
existing charities may not be aware and
ICF HVAC system is
look at Channel for them to become also
aware of the message should be in fact
about who the community that charity
should not be in motion now of course
the target maybe there is genuine
legitimacy to the idea that charges
should be ok they actually care about
this year while doing some kind of
objective Asia but the same time I think
it's also Federer to recognize that some
subset
network cable or otherwise Jun 21 have
some kind of you know in here and
confidence that the money they are
giving tradition and that set to go for
the ball I wanted by now you know maybe
it's impossible to actually whether the
wedding highway going stuff is good but
it's just a question of how you lookin
at you trust people there's too much you
know if that if it were anyone really
like it may just be really difficult to
decide whether it will really well
whether it makes sense to give you know
I don't know I don't pretend to have
strong just like you claim to have
dropped by about one thing
ok well I mean giving me the impact of
the expected utility
donating to organizations such as sand
and others as well
shouldn't people feel good even though
they'll never have never even met the
people acting or they might but they're
not around now and then what they can
actually see the material comes
ok to be feeling good still working
towards and donating such courses you
took him something really important it's
very curious and I don't be when you
talk to them to do that to a
congressional cause I can almost
envision Africa completely happy with
the fact that never made it or interact
with a pullback benefiting from but when
it comes to meet a huge number of basic
interest in anyone else they're only
interested in them and if they come to
us going to come along with say twenty
twenty-five years ago maybe longer and
we agreed that now they say well I'm
already won by chance which a well not
all that good then he goes well you know
that you care about you
getting it back
they know that people are going to think
how you doing well as causes like we
decide against aging but still slow
computer bushel and so you know
ambitious what the club the office said
they have a concern that they could but
they don't think badly of generating
great because that will 19 legislation
has to be self a two-out like that but
I'm guessing it lol conversation with a
lot of people unfortunately people who
give you money tend to be very happy
about telling you why they gave you
money but they don't give you money tend
to be very reluctant ally while it was
in terms of like the cost of life but
also on public that also the positive
quality of life just quality-adjusted
life years that could be added to each
life saying H life I guess improved
would you put in terms of impact a
dollar if you could write an interesting
question because if you do the
calculation I think you really should
you get completely unequivocal answer
completely literally unequivocal answer
because what you are now turning who's
that most people who benefit from the
first generation rejuvenation parents
are likely to now I don't say that I
generally find it quite ready to talk
about people but the fact that actually
ridiculously conservative estimate we
called it a badge on the outrageously
ridiculous assumption that we are not
going to make any progress
in reducing deaths from other quote if
you take into account the button will
want my program especially after with my
brother today because we've got to carry
more by next track and so on
trivial calculation to figure out that
actually the rate at which one child to
rate will decline to ensure that most
people who have $250 million you can
just get really good at fixing things
like a strong impact on nearby sleep I
know we are only my platform now we can
be certain about it go to be ok with the
calculation gets governorship morning
everybody who had been slightly
politically correct so I don't talk
about it
which brings me to like that a lot of
people using the word immortality and I
don't know if it's actually prove the 11
but living for a very long time I I can
certainly see that happening but what I
say it because the the word immortality
has a lot of religious and other
scientific connotations it might be
selling the message little get there and
I'm worried that people are just using
it to get a bit of attention
whereas they could get attention
elsewhere I know there's a lot of my
bias and that sort of talking point
there but yeah I just wanted to hear
what should I think that really done it
will be able to you were not able to
describe I think we have enough trouble
with the fact that journalists can't
really the problem you can't trivialize
the subject
the boundary between education and
entertain everybody know that is
something very technologically true that
in my Google through some kind of you
know religious actual for all we know
it's dunno travel by air it talk to
talking that can walk well computer of
course from the point of view media
because they know the public and to know
that is providing Beijing and they don't
want to get my hopes up but they do want
to be in so it makes sense for the media
to actually give me your love their
order to maintain some kind of emotional
distance while there are actually
emotional guests in just realized they
were getting people not taking seriously
enough to get involved you got to get
back into the Iraq and research 2012
advocated by then I am sure you know
about this woman began I thought you
know it's okay to be talking about
radical and ravaging radical
ultimately if one doesn't talk about a
question that we won't be going straight
down the question is going on people of
sound biased against their have powerful
media we actually have to be different I
have to actually emphasize
Jones
in particular I got further I thought
only well now I'm actually lying so I
don't get health and longevity on your
side effect people alive in a bad thing
we're going to keep him alive on its
side effect of keeping healthy but the
point is I didn't understand at the
beginning how terribly easy it is
terribly prone people are two missions
time for now I going over John Legg
Mason boy and girl I do not work on a
motel so what happens when people use
your your interview and then I'll if
this man
immortality or we'd also like some sort
of article about immortality or chrome
audiobook your mortality of some
yeah I mean you're right it's a big down
on the question age should we go they
the maximum publicity global ocean will
try to you know a girl I only let people
decide what we do and we try to find a
kind of middle ground between we know
that we need to get the word out yet we
avoid media exposure in occasional
articles which really killed what we do
and I generally try wearing no more
personal aspect then we judged it pretty
well we get more
and you know it's it's the same kind of
maybe a public figure what we've always
done that we have it in my like this
particularly like the fact that you
noticed that a lot of aspects of media
really about trying to keep people
emotionally attached or have emotional
reactions to things cause that's what
really feels most of the industry are
there and as long as they start thinking
critically internationally it you know
they let chances of actually doing it
which is i guess im not sure rendition
of what makes it so let's talk about
like advocacy and action programs and
advocacy but if you were to give people
like instructions on how to be good
advocate know what what can they do what
they need to know and watch them in
order to begin with so I actually talked
about this weeks ago one of the
securities investor
anyway to think with two essential
component to being an effective out with
essential community obviously they don't
agree to way people can detailed
scientific work at most a great mother
and most people were gonna go out there
and and and promote as well not a while
ago but still having the elementary
what we do know why you know the kind of
things I say in 10 minutes of my typical
12:31 back
and if you can get that right then that
much more importance in regard to
knowing you know your stuff in regard to
the concern was like oh well people are
we mentioned all of you get bored I
spend 15 years or more
developing and how and refining really
good and you may not like what you guys
think about all the answers I don't
generally good reason I don't give them
because they're not very good we require
a lot of people are inclined to say that
there are actually really affect
infected broken older brother named one
need to actually learn from especially
my and developing the best and so he is
here
million staff we difference the
energetic and different I'm really good
at what I do but it only have a good
kick in the way of saying things I do
not really gotta that's because I'm too
intellectual bad because I am gonna have
a crazy fuckin British accent you know a
lot of thing trying some people up and
therefore what we interviewed by a
variety of different people with
different institutions in all the
injuries when tonight woodwork twice to
be going on giving essentially the same
message in dhahran what about the right
meaning what were here
I guess taking it in approaching variety
in doing something new and interesting I
guess also take into account the the
points you brought up before about you
know but trying to use words which have
a lot of association with serious I'm so
it will ease your city or emotional
attachment its ok to put your community
things I've always twelves
it would be really great to our people
from the religious community will be
judged community for example from
different least me to get involved
within their own community thing people
media reaction that religious would they
actually really feel that this is
playing guard unit message that nature
while actually not found that book
release date will have an actual text
book that touched it really helpful
you can start from that attack you know
how to play until actually what their
text help you the opposite of what you
got it and so I would love to have more
people will come from religion needs it
actually did that actually getting by
but of course it over and welcome me
that he had to be making whether Muslim
logically it much more community
yeah well I spoken to see people from
the moment transmits Association and you
know i guess im very restful and not
representative of the average more than
go cause I've made a few moments to he
wouldn't be so it's interesting that the
type of people who are engaged in
discussing sends another
causes related to treat role eg on the
average religious person but I do
believe it is worth getting religious
people involved somehow a lot of them
have a lot of money for instance and if
they gonna spend money on impact areas
when you know it's been something that
does as you say resonate quite well with
scripture I let me actually let me
actually follow up on that because we
don't have to bring most people if we
can increase the proportion of people
who really get this message to do
something about it but you know from its
current level of like mind 10,000 people
to like 11 timetable that would be quite
enough that would really actually make
all the difference when the moment you
need this kind of thing actually already
in the morning Tribune News VA shun
represents probably only a moment has
done enough to bring in real money much
of your life long and then a childhood
friend who actually running among Asian
American companies that sell two billion
dollars to create in a variety of monks
is going to explode but that may change
on a particular on the investments that
one thing
monday was a man who cried when his
company should be tested
really good news so lets people are
relatively agnostic about what they what
they want to do what they can do and are
looking for more obvious high impact ABS
to take with it take so yes in in maybe
some less and less populated areas of
longevity research health research or
even focusing director and sends impact
actions people can take a hard question
to answer because different people have
different names depending on the
circumstances depending on what the
point out is about what other people
doing the better choice to show respect
to what research focused on we are kind
of doing right we already very clear
agenda that most neglected in other
words we value most actually came out
you actually journey into you try to
obviously narrow that gap if you giving
us money again you can be done sure that
it's going to go to highly 11 we are you
know we are you the choice of going to
use
we are left the question then age if you
don't have your own money in various
quantities working it had a great impact
and get between the people of all ages
then clearly you can make choices about
which areas to eventually
we got very angry other people how to
buy direct my career which eventually
end up making sure we love that you know
we aren't sure everything will wear it
and of course because she's worried
about getting other people sometimes I
and i'm speaking to a group class they
are there any billionaire that google
mostly right
raise your hand now if you don't know
anyone here and nobody running back and
then they can give us money got great
you probably have a friend who can get
more money in your time you may be well
you know where it came to the better and
also to yes of course I like these
things I would be doing this right but
yeah that's something you know that
money I like a message out there and
hopefully some of the videos are put up
online convincing people push people to
learn all they scare people closer to
wanting to make an impact contributions
to organizations such as your and
leveraging 150 day duration to leverage
lunch every day which is just around the
corner it's on the table and what once
one has celebrated longevity you do
today what to do next question that's
totally welcome to you people do in
preparation to have a good day on
so I'm actually going on to both
questions together because I feel that
the answer is very simple
hope I just had an international data is
to focus people's attention to get some
kind of critical mass together we
normally have been too did you think
that just going to die so why should
answer to the question what do we do
about and what do you do to it is
organized all about hearing all about
bringing people together to work
together and manual that is saved by
others I would rather go you know
scattergun want something it's a real
movement you know it get it get far more
impact among
actually make your problem among people
who want to get really all about here is
my practical on your age people who are
constantly under a week ago what you
should do that we'll be there were few
questions I guess people we wanted to
address a couple of topics and one of
them was a guy in washington needs
selflessness earlier any reading around
and thinks that this bill should be
addressed one of them
metaphor min or time
and which has been described as an
anti-aging pill like a bona fide drug
and current rate it's a current
treatments for diseases relating to
aging not just in exchange for one
disease for the other guy he created it
too much to ask you aware of it
yeah I won't have a good cleaning how to
pronounce my phone had been a bad night
but the thing is that it's an
interesting crowd around a long time not
change in a lot of the same as a bullet
pathway you buy coverage capture guys
coming in and another Charlie doing it
unfortunately that's probably more less
or it may be pretty good drugs eg a
little bit ambivalent a job which he
should be considered the waiting room
but they went about about is that it
seems to be automatically going to be
going to be accurate and we need and not
very interesting reason is that CRX self
doesn't actually work very well and that
we believe it will even less so it's all
very well you know you might if you're
lucky you might get a great deal better
than nothing though it's not going if so
i dont detrimental and I don't really
having a baby
making about it but talking about doing
something about aging well just talking
about understanding aging like now it's
not sure what about nicotine ride and
then what is it then plus get all that
area
ago larry is what makes this really I
have exactly because it began in one way
or another
waves to stimulate saying that they hit
by a car inspection and we have
absolutely no reason to expect that they
will have an aggressor in effect on
health and human dignity self-doubt will
change when it landed another question
was asked is there any issues that we
should be locking the government about
ok so thinking about lobbying ultimately
when you say anything to the government
the way they're going to be listening to
what you say is always extremely
predictable people got that way because
they wanted to get him elected
and that
usually may not actually drugs the
politician to tell we talking to a
pending show Oprah Winfrey or whoever of
you and critical thinking are people
like that should be getting them to be
out on camera making opinions change
got it what will make sure that you know
Mike Johnson ok so he can question is
understanding and treating aging in the
brain and the different from the rest of
the body of the questions yeah okay so
shouldn't you know the rain fell during
child about selling my stuff you know of
course that's only if we go down the
details but the difference between the
brain and other organs is not really any
greater bandwidth but when and how much
do you think
degradation in immune system regulation
drives aging and what methods
rejuvenating immune system do you think
we should be interesting declines huge
question there are two fundamental
number one is we live a particular type
of cell gordon Gee is created
early on in life until about the age of
twenty especially when I know goldenthal
merge its just be grateful that we could
with the way and the region were even
allowed that to happen because the
reason I T cells that the book that the
famous May
away know that they keep us going to
interpreting diversity we need to
recreate that we have a project that and
that's one of our biggest successes in
terms of getting people on board as well
I first listened accumulation of a
different type of memory t-cell in
particular a particularly broken type of
memory would you not really huge number
of and they're going to inhibit the
proliferation of policy so we need to
get rid of that
interview pete Dougherty was one of the
founders of T cells I think so familiar
with and Dr Ling Ling and technology
will you know if we get really good at
Christmas technology like and as you
think it's good and it's got any
particular
delivery of large molecules is a huge
part of anything we want to do against a
very clever ideas for how to get large
molecules in the body and into cells
into parts of cells
yeah that could be really really
exciting because they're by no means the
only people working on that problem
crashes and it could be argued that even
the gondola and actually late but we'll
see how that research is supposed to be
lots of different things going try
because you never know which ones
actually I don't if you if we haven't
much more do I need to go and get the
power supply for my computer so can we
have not yet gone to get a pass when I
guess just a reminder that we are days
on the 1st of October every year
diaries and getting to you and
organizing something talks with leaders
talk to people talk to local people
involved in and medication that could be
useful to say yes yes ok so people like
this question a lot I guess it's one
that people want to hear you say
HIV intuitions as the likelihood of
likely effect of various diets 07 causes
of the sedentary things as far as we can
tell
basically no impact of every kind of
supplement and he can go beyond the big
enough to be measurable of course we
know it's easy to accelerate damage
accumulation in due course problem but I
think that the problem with spending
your entire life is too much but that's
not the problem the problem might have
gotten a short while everyone is so did
you were identical load is like this any
substantial genetic variants in people
that could be used in order to the
medically modify the people's James of
these like you know longevity James
really interesting question very very
little show only ignorant
well known that one particular which
exists in three different forms in human
population and particularly for me
really bad for you if you got that
you like to come down with simon and
Lewis lowered considerably earlier so we
might have to go in with some new
technology target United 16 people
people who are only flaw
get going and change their up only four
games no longer it's very simple trains
at one time and we could do it in the
foreseeable future in a large proportion
in eliminating what benefit would know
the reason detrimental effect occurring
for the fact that could be done all the
damage is done right and the other night
you spend your whole life and Julie
biologically hold their value for up to
that we don't know why did you know now
you know when I'm not to be of very
complicated relationship that we stay
you know it's almost implement but
here's the good news we probably don't
need to worry about any because at least
within the not right
which people accumulate damaged in the
April would only buried by where we are
now beginning to really believe beyond
the edge and almost nobody died of
age-related problems so we are talking
only about a roughly a third group to me
that if we could to try to figure out
which problem which location it could
very well we got all of this
comprehensive damage repair
mansions in actually everybody a bit
more but then they read more rapidly
aging and just live with the fact that
we're treating the less rapidly aging
even diagnosed ok well I guess one more
question and that is what's in the cards
for sands in the next five years
say I mean my dad might be hard to
predict a bit like what do you think
you'll be doing next five years
couple of things i would like to say in
response to a question of course we have
no I have been going to be because
that's all about donations were or
whether we already know which i think is
probably the most important is that we
are saying really in a
into the private tracks where we are
with a non-profit 501 C three public
charity we do have much logging system
they developed country to get my
activation and I need one more about
that but yea charity really were
charging much of what we doing the case
against that will turn you are you
making good progress because we want to
invest and make money at the end nearly
1000 we are seeing a huge tickets only
about us and in relation to our own
project being checked out like a sore
throat is well versed in 2012 but now
only people who has correctly good and
well I think we're going to create
incredibly long though so I think it's
absolutely critical to our mission at
the end of the day
kick-start independence on this is
actually happening since all the way
through my head of source file
initiative some of the output will be
taken on by third parties and developed
over and the private industry
I think maybe 20 go to put everybody
asked me what my ultimate goal is one
word to describe the way you want to be
in my word on that option I want to get
this economy
cause we enjoy every second every
program that needs to be put forward for
another
taken further forward by when judge in
that situation of the chargeable traffic
incidents that we are currently Biden
would be upset but I don't see happening
tomorrow thanks very much you time and
yeah yeah thanks sorry
