Lila: Thanks so much for being here dr. Altman
oh I'm so thankful that you asked me to
come can you tell us first how you got
involved with doing abortions well with
not many people realize this that almost
all OBGYNs have done abortions unless
you have opted out on a conscience
clause you have to learn how to do
abortions now at the time I wouldn't
have opted out because I felt an
abortion was really something that was
important for women I felt that no woman
should have to have a baby she didn't
want it I felt it was their right to
have an abortion they should have
control over their own bodies I felt it
was important and I wanted to learn how
to do it and where did that strong
conviction come from that women should
have the right to an abortion I think
that really came from the kind of the
women's lib movement and I was one of
very few women in medicine at the time
so I had to really not fight my way up
but had to try to be better at
everything to get where I where I got I
I wanted to make sure that women had
access to abortion and I thought I could
help with that and use first started you
learned how to do first trimester
abortions and then you selected to learn
how to do second trimester abortions can
you share more about that we had a
attending that I highly admired as a
matter of fact this man had done my
abortion several years earlier and I
just thought a lot of him and he was
doing late term abortions and I decided
that I wanted to learn how to do that I
was challenged by the procedure and I I
really hate to say this but the bigger
the better I I cringed now when I say
that but I wanted to do the biggest ones
I could it was a challenge and
my whole focus was being good at what I
did and stretching the limits when you
were doing those later trimester
abortions the later term board abortions
what was he said the bigger the better
what was the experience for you like
when you were because he's involved
going in with the forceps and and you
know involved dismemberment what was
that like for you as a medical
professional to kind of distance
yourself from this is not a baby this is
just a procedure how did that how did
that work in your mind what was your
minds that while you were doing that I
think when you go through the process of
medical school and residency you learn
to compartmentalize things I think also
in medical school you're having to learn
so much so fast you just take it all in
without question I think I just bought
the whole line that abortion was a part
of women's health care that I didn't I
didn't question it I just bought it I
think part of the problem was that I
didn't see a fetus any different than
the chicken rail the you know chick
embryos that we dissected in college and
I didn't see them as human beings as a
matter of fact and again I hate to admit
this but when I would look at the parts
that I had taken out I was fascinated
with them I thought oh this is these are
so cute and they're great they got
little fingers and toes I actually would
do extra sections through the different
organs when we'd send them to pathology
so that I could look at those pathology
slides later because fetal tissue is
different a little bit different than
mature tissue their cells are a little
bit different and so I just wanted to
find everything out about them I could
but I did not see them as human beings I
I just saw them as embryos and fetuses
and not as people and then what was the
the moment or the experiences that
changed
for you when instead of just this is
like it might as well be a chick chicken
Rio it changed to wow this is this is a
human I got pregnant while I was in
residency and I was moonlighting at an
abortion clinic at the time to emotions
and I was almost proud of the fact that
here I was pregnant and I was still
doing abortions I felt like well my
babies wanted theirs is not they have
the right to abort their babies and so I
continued to do abortions during my
whole pregnancy but then when I went
back after having had my baby there were
three patients there that changed my
mind
the first one was a young girl that came
in and if she was scheduled that morning
I had done three abortions on her myself
the same girl same girl and no she had
had other abortions that they didn't do
but I had done three of them and I told
the people at the clinic that I didn't
want to do it and they said you don't
have the right to judge it's her choice
if she wants to use abortionist birth
control that's up to her I looked at
them and I said yeah but I'm the one
that's having to do the killing so I
ended up doing the abortion and
afterwards I tried to get her to take
birth control and she refused so she
left then the next woman came in with a
friend and sometimes people did want to
see the tissue and the friend said do
you want to see the tissue and she said
no I just want to kill it and it just
hit me
you're like cold water in the face and I
thought what did this baby do to you
it's not the baby's fault and then the
third woman was a mother of four and she
and her husband didn't feel that they
could afford another child and so she
came in for the abortion and she
right the entire time and thankfully she
was my last patient because I just I
couldn't do him after that
I think I had finally made that baby
fetus connection and I realized that
that was a little person just like my
daughter was a little person and the
fact that they were no longer wanted was
not enough for me to kill him but I have
to say it was really sad because I still
believed abortion was a woman's right I
still believed that abortion was
necessary and I still referred for
abortion it wasn't until I started to
see young girls in my practice who had
babies and did really well and I had
always thought that an unplanned
pregnancy for a young girl was the worst
thing that could happen to her and
that's sort of though that's normal
thinking you know that's the narrative
and to see these girls do so well and
then I had other patients who were
seeing psychiatrists or were struggling
with the physical complications of
abortion and it just wasn't what it
wasn't what I expected it didn't jive
with the rhetoric I had you know the
rhetoric that I had embraced you were
experiencing you were seeing in the
clinical you're committing doing these
abortions and you just saw this
callousness in some of the these
experiences you had and then you went
from that to still thinking well I'm not
going to do abortions myself you made
the baby fetus connection as you say but
then you still were referring for
abortion so what were these other
experiences or what happened next that
moved you from I can't do an abortion
but I'm still okay with them to now I'm
a pro-life advocate and I and none of it
is okay
I've to add one more little step in
there and that was that in the process
of all of this my marriage was falling
apart
and I ended up going back to church
I became a Christian but that didn't
change my beliefs I still felt it was
woman's right it was something that was
important to have the other thing that
began to change my opinion was as I saw
children that were born at church were
born to women at church young girls who
very easily could have had abortions if
if I had been taking care of them I
would have recommended they have an
abortion but they didn't and as I
watched those little children grow up
into these wonderful people I began to
again see okay this is these are real
people that that we are killing who
never get a chance to be alive and we
never get to see who they're going to
become the thing that finally did it was
I had friends who were very good friends
and accepted me even though they knew my
position but they were brave enough to
at one point say we understand your
position but would you read this article
and it was an article in the Holocaust
and comparing the Holocaust to abortion
my dad was with the first group that
opened well with the group that opened
the first concentration camp during
World War two and so I grew up with all
those stories and those horrific
pictures and then when I became a doctor
I couldn't understand how the German
doctors could do the things that they
did say your dad was part of that
generation
my dad was yeah he fought in World War
two you know and was there when they
liberated the first came and you were
hearing those stories and I heard those
stories my whole life growing up when I
read that comparison between the
Holocaust and abortion I finally
understood how they could do the
horrible things that they did because
just as I didn't see the fetus as a
person
they didn't see the Jews and the gypsies
and the others as people and if you
don't consider someone human you can do
anything you want that's when I realized
that I was a mass murderer that I had
killed all of these people and that's
when I completely changed my opinion on
abortion and then it took a lot of
Prayer and a lot of healing to get over
all of them tell me more about that you
say you have this the pain of conviction
you see I mean you say it yourself it's
considering yourself a mass murderer on
looking at what happened during the
Holocaust and saying it's happening
today it's happening it is happening
here with abortion so what did you six
million versus 60 million six million
versus 60 million children six million
killed in the Holocaust I mean that the
numbers are horrific
so what did what did you do what was
your journey like once you had that
realization you saw this is our
Holocaust this is the Holocaust in your
part in it
what was that journey like to put even
process that it really took reading a
lot of books and some counseling and
then I actually went to the Christian
Christian healing center there in
Jacksonville and one of the women in in
our church was there and was a counselor
there and prayed with me and it really
took God asking me he said are you more
powerful than I am that I can forgive
you and you cannot forgive yourself and
I I never understood what crying your
eyes down omit meant until that point no
because I literally cried my eyes out
and couldn't stop but after that that
was probably the biggest bit of healing
so you felt forgiven yes yes and
gracious a god we
that he can forgive even that there are
hundreds of doctors or others out there
right now in our in America and
worldwide there are more than that but
in the United States who are committing
abortions mm-hmm that's part of their
daily work
what message especially for you having
this realization of the life in the womb
and then being feeling forgiven knowing
you've been forgiven what message would
you send would you want to share with
all of them that these that these are
people I would want them to have as much
compassion for that baby as they have
for the woman who's in the circumstance
of having an unplanned pregnancy because
in the one in the one case when you
think about about it there there's not
that much time from the point you find
out that you're pregnant to the point
that you deliver months not that many
months so we're you're you're thinking
you're helping this poor woman there are
alternatives for her okay
there aren't any alternatives for the
baby so you're in order not to
inconvenience this person or make her
feel bad about getting her baby away or
whatever you're then taking the life of
this other person who never gets to
experience the light of day never can
grow up and be who they're supposed to
be so have as much compassion for the
baby as you do for this woman and let's
as a society provide the things that she
needs to be able to thrive even though
she's had a pregnancy that was unplanned
so that we can encourage her and help
her and also help this baby beautiful
it's beautiful you have been a member of
the American College of Obstetricians
gynecologist for years so those are the
doctors ACOG the doctors and the medical
professionals of the United States
involved in women's health care they are
pro-abortion they support abortion and
tell us a little bit about your
experience with ACOG having gone from
doing abortions to now being a pro-life
advocate it really saddens me because
they're the ones who really should be up
to bat for women and their babies and
most of Obstetricians care about both
patients the mother and the baby as a
matter of fact and I didn't tell you
this earlier but you know not many
people can continue to do abortions they
may do them during their residency
training but very few of them go on to
do abortions because the normal human
cannot be ripping apart and killing
other human beings for very long it if
you have a conscience and that's why
there aren't that many abortionists it's
because people just can't continue to do
it
something happens along the way where
they see the light and they realize what
they're doing do you think there's a lot
of doctors like that who are members of
ACOG that went to medical school that
had to commit abortions and residency
then stopped you know they don't do it
anymore
but they're not as outspoken as you are
they're not sharing their story what why
do you think that is one because they
don't want their pregnant patients to
know that they did abortions because
here they're trying to take care of
their babies and do all of that and and
most women don't like the idea of
someone taking care of their baby if
they did abortions so I think that's I
think that's a biggie and it's very
embarrassing to say that you've done it
I mean it most people want to hide that
fact they don't want to put it out there
that's why I think you're a story of
forgiveness that you went to God and
received that forgiveness from him is so
important because doctors who may have
had that in their past they were
thinking well it's it's a shameful part
of their their past that they need that
forgiveness and healing from imagine if
all those doctors came forward and say
yes I did abortions during my training
and and it would I regret it it was a
terrible thing to have done
think what would happen if all the women
who've had abortions came forward and
said what it really did to them you know
the devastation that it wreaked in their
lives which doesn't show up on poles and
things like that because women don't
want to talk about it and oftentimes it
doesn't hit them until they've either
had a child later or they haven't been
able to have a child because of the
abortion dr. Altman you've also
testified multiple times including
before the US Senate the House of
Representatives and you've shared as a
former abortionist what actually happens
during a dismemberment abortion so
you're talking about the baby and you're
describing it in in detail but you're
sitting in front of sometimes groups of
legislators who are still in support of
abortion through all nine months yes
what do you I mean it's one thing we
talked about doctors but for legislators
what do you why do you think that is and
how do we how do we change them I think
they were the same as I was
they are Maleeva ng a lie it's a
delusion that is so powerful that it's
very difficult to get past they just
they truly believe they're doing the
right thing they I think some of them
feel that if they become anti-abortion
they'll lose the female vote I think
that's probably a big one but also I
think many of them really believe
they're doing the right thing it's a
woman's choice we've convinced them that
it's a what should be a woman's choice
and so they see it as a choice issue not
a life-and-death issue they don't see
the baby as a baby they see it as an
embryo or a fetus and I think what may
get through to them I think are their
constituent constituents telling them
that they don't agree with their
pro-abortion stand and and hopefully
some friends that might come into their
life who might gently talk to them about
it and
explain why their position is incorrect
it wasn't people yelling at me berating
me trying to make me feel guilty that's
not what changed my opinion it was
people loving me even though I was
pro-abortion
and me respecting them and then them
telling me well maybe maybe you should
consider this and the friends that had
the courage to share that Holocaust
article with article right that's really
what the friends willing to talk to you
about it in a loving way in a loving way
and I think that's what's critical
because I actually used to think all of
you pro lifers were crazy radicals rabid
nasty people and I think that's the
opinion of many pro-abortion people yes
and and as I have gotten to know people
in the pro-life movement I have found
them to be the most loving caring people
that I've ever met thank you so much for
sharing with us and talking with us
we're we're really grateful for your
amazing courage and testimony thank you
I'm just glad that God is using me to do
something good now he absolutely is
thank you
you
