AMY GOODMAN: Noam, I wanted to, before we
get to your book, your latest book, ask you
about this latest development in the United
States.
The director of the Central Intelligence Agency
gave his first major address, and he focused
on WikiLeaks.
And it looks like now the U.S. is preparing
an arrest warrant for Julian Assange, who’s
been holed up in the Ecuadorean Embassy in
London for almost five years now.
Pompeo calling WikiLeaks a "hostile non-state
intelligence service," calling Julian Assange
himself a "demon," and said he’s not protected
by the First Amendment.
Your thoughts?
NOAM CHOMSKY: Well, I think it speaks for
itself.
WikiLeaks has released lots of information
that governments don’t like.
It’s overwhelmingly information that citizens
should have.
It’s information about what their governments
are doing.
And perfectly natural that systems of power
don’t want to be exposed, so they’ll do
what they can to prevent exposure.
I think it’s a disgraceful act.
In fact, I think it’s disgraceful even to
keep Julian Assange holed up in the Ecuadorean
Embassy.
I did visit him there once, but you can guess
yourself.
It’s, in many ways, worse than imprisonment.
At least if you’re in prison, you can see
other prisoners, and you can get out and look
at the sunshine now and then.
He’s in a small apartment, where he can’t
go out.
You know, he can go to the balcony, but that’s
about it, a small—basically, a couple of
rooms inside a small apartment.
It’s not a big embassy.
The embassy is like a kind of an apartment
in London, surrounded by police and so on.
There’s been no credible basis for any of
this.
And to go on to try to raise it to the level
of criminal prosecutions, I think, is, again,
one of these efforts to look tough at home,
and the kind of effort that a government would
carry out that is dedicated to trying to protect
itself from exposure of facts that citizens
should have, but systems of power don’t
want them to have.
I think that’s the crucial issue.
AMY GOODMAN: The suggestions are it has to
do with his aiding and abetting perhaps Chelsea
Manning and also Edward Snowden, doing that
with Edward Snowden, which he openly admits,
while he’s trapped in the Ecuadorean Embassy.
NOAM CHOMSKY: If the charge is true, he should
be honored for it.
Chelsea Manning and Edward Snowden carried
out heroic, courageous acts.
They fulfilled the responsibility of somebody
who takes citizenship seriously—that is,
who believes that the people of a country
ought to know something about what their government
is up to.
OK?
Like if their government is carrying out murderous,
brutal attacks in Iraq, people should know
about it.
Takes us back to Martin Luther King’s talk
in 1967.
If the government is, and corporations, too,
incidentally, are listening in to your telephone
conversations and what you’re doing, you
know, tapping this discussion and so on, we
should know about it.
Governments have no right to do things like
that.
And people should know about it.
And if they think it’s OK, fine, let them
decide, not do it in secret.
And I think people wouldn’t agree to it.
That’s why it’s kept secret.
Why else keep it secret?
You know?
And these are people who exposed it at great
risk to themselves.
So those are heroic, courageous acts.
If WikiLeaks was abetting them, more power
to them.
That’s what they should be doing.
AMY GOODMAN: I mean, President Trump endorsed
WikiLeaks, right?
He said, "I love WikiLeaks," during the campaign.
NOAM CHOMSKY: Yeah, when it was releasing
things that he liked, yeah.
Any system of power will do that.
"You release information that I like, it’s
great.
But I don’t want to be exposed."
AMY GOODMAN: That’s MIT professor Noam Chomsky
speaking on Monday at the First Parish Church
in Cambridge.
To see our full conversation, go to democracynow.org.
That does it for our show.
I’ll be speaking at Middlebury College in
Vermont today at noon, then on to the Vermont
College of Fine Arts in Montpelier at 7:00.
Tomorrow, Thursday, at noon, I’ll be at
Bennington College, tomorrow night at the
Unitarian church on Pearl Street in Burlington,
Vermont.
Then, on Saturday night, after Democracy Now!'s
5-hour broadcast of the People's Climate March
in Washington, D.C., I’ll be speaking at
the Plymouth Congregational Church.
