Hello I'm Elly Johnson and welcome to
the ASU files I have the pleasure of
speaking to each of the Aussie Speakers
USA members with the goal to bring you
fresh insights and go a little deeper
than what you might read on a speaker
listing or on their sizzle reel and
today I'm delighted to be joined by Gaia
Grant Gaia is a recognized thought
leader and a highly skilled presenter
and facilitator she's the creator of the
unique innovators profile so that's
something I'll ask her more about in
this discussion she's also a researcher
on innovation with the University of
Sydney Business School she's a director
of Tirian Consulting and an author of a
number of books including the Innovation
Race how to change a culture to change
the game an international bestseller Who
Killed Creativity and how can we get it
back so please join me in welcoming Gaia
Grant to the ASU Files
welcome to the ASU files thank you so
much Elly.
Great to have you here now you've spoken
to and worked with some incredible
clients all around the world can I ask
you for an overview of your journey that
has brought you to where you are today
Ah interesting that's a long story
let me try and give you the potted
version basically my partner and I have
been working in leadership development
for over 30 years and more recently
probably over the last 18 or so years
we've become really interested in
creative thinking and innovation because
we believe these are critical skills to
be able to lead for the future so we've
looked into what it means to be a
creative leader how to be more creative
and we've also looked into how to be an
innovative leader and how to lead for
innovation how to create a culture that
supports innovation so the last 10 or so
years I've wanted to dig deeper into
this discipline of strategy, innovation
and entrepreneurship and I've been
researching how exactly do you create
culture that supports innovation and
what leadership behaviors support that
and that sort of led me deep deep deep
into the academic world and it's also
led me you know internationally around
the world to interview over 70 global
leaders who are leaders of highly
innovative companies and to find out
what they do differently I extracted
some of the key ideas and then built
that into a profile tool which I then
surveyed thousands of people
internationally and came up with a
measure a validated measure that helps
to provide feedback to people on what
they can do differently how to lead
differently to support this sort of
future-ready
leadership that can cope with rapid
change so does that help to give you a
bit of background I'm also a director of
a company Tirian a consulting
company and we have worked with global
leaders internationally for over 25
years so everything that I've researched
has been tied directly into practice and
into the clients that we've worked with
so I've grounded everything in in real
life experience which i think is a nice
unique approach to have a foot in both
worlds the academic camp and be a
practitioner at the same time so how
does that fill you in does that create I
know that's a big question to start with
and you could talk for ages because you've done so much and it's incredible with
those leaders that that you interview
to gather to do that in-depth research of
70 leaders was there anything that
really surprised you yes what I
discovered is that highly innovative
leaders who are future ready and who are
the leaders of you know some of the most
innovative and progressive organizations
are ambidextrous and this is a really
interesting concept because I think
traditionally we think that innovation
is all about risk-taking and
entrepreneurial behaviors and looking
for breakthrough solutions which is true
that's part of what it is but there's a
flip side to it that
I hadn't really thought much about until
I went deep into this research and this
is what came out of the the interviews
with these global leaders that as well
as being entrepreneurial and risk takers
they also were able to ground that so
they had this capability of building
systems and structures and routines that
would support sustainable development
over the long term and these highly
innovative leaders could exhibit both
of these behaviors simultaneously so
it's like the innovation paradox you
have to be able to move forward rapidly
and look into the future with
breakthrough innovation but you also
have to be able to incrementally develop
those systems that will support that
rapid growth and just in looking at the
transcripts of the interviews with the
leaders in a single phrase they would
rapidly switch between these two
different orientations and this is what
I called the exploration orientations
and moving forward looking to the future
and a preservation orientation or
maintaining those systems and structures
over the long term and in a single
sentence you can see I could see that
they in their brain they were rapidly
switching between those two modes of
those two mindsets and that set them
apart from other leaders really
interesting finding really interesting
finding and so the measure and or the
tool that you came out with that
that's the innovators profile tool is
that what it's called I guess I refer to
it in general as the innovators profile
tool because I've been able to sort of
get a fingerprint or a DNA stamp of you
know this is what highly innovative
future-ready people look like but it's
it's a really good general tool it's the
official title is the innovative change leaders profile and
the ICLI tool with this inventory
helps to measure ambidexterity so I've
said
it's not one simple black-and-white set
of behaviors that defines highly
innovative future-ready leaders but
instead there's all of these paradoxical
behaviors and where you have
ambidexterity so the ability to pull in
both directions simultaneously then you
have highly agile ambidextrous leaders and then you can find alignment in your
teams and in your organization's around
these different polar positions so we
have these competing demands in this
rapid change complex environment that we
find ourselves in especially with all
the international crises that we seem to
be dealing with and you have to be able
to be aware of those paradoxical
positions and you have to be able to
rapidly adapt switch to adapt and
respect the need for the different
positions so you need to be able to do
that yourself and a good leader can
switch quickly can adapt and can see the
big picture of everything that needs to
be done and they can also pull together
a team and effectively manage that team
so that that team covers all the bases
and is aware of all the issues that need
to be addressed so that tool is designed
to provide feedback for leaders for
themselves I have a team level and I
also have an organization level measure
as well a culture change measure for the
organization so it's a comprehensive
look at how do you do things differently
as a leader very very practical with
guidelines on behaviour that you can
change actions that you can take and
it's it's a great way of understanding
the complexity of this sort of
leadership that's required for the
future and there's something incredibly
incredibly useful and incredibly
powerful now you've authored and co-authored a number of books could you
tell us about about those sure so I'm
co-author with my partner Andrew Grant
so we've been on this journey
together but we've been married for over
thirty years so it's been a long journey
where we've grown together and we
published books together and we often
present together as well but these books
the first one is Who Killed Creativity so
it's looking at how to identify the
potential blocks to creative thinking in
your organization and we take a fun it's
like a detective investigation into
what's gone wrong
why it's gone wrong and what we can do
about it so we look at that identify the
key creativity killers and look at how
to change mindsets and culture to
support more creative thinking and then
the more recent book is is called the
innovation race and that is looking at
how all that's all the research that I
was talking about it's how do you
identify the specific behaviors that
can assist with being an ambidextrous
leader and how do you change a culture
and create an ambidextrous culture that
will support innovative thinking and
problem-solving over the long term
create a more sustainable
leadership style and a more sustainable
organization so there's lots of within
both of those books there's also lots of
facts we do we you know try to put a lot
of research it's very evidence-based our
approach as a scientist I'm very
conscious of that that I want to make
sure what we say is credible but we're
also educators and as I said my partner
Andrew is very highly engaging presenter
and it's very good at grounding ideas so
together we've come up with a lot of
what we think are really original ways
to explain our ideas we use a lot of
analogies a lot of models case studies
questionnaires and that comes into the
way we present as well we have a
background in education so everything is
designed to be highly interactive and
engaging I could imagine the two of you
on stage I haven't seen you on stage but
you'd be
definitely the dynamic duo with the
background and experience that you have
together what we like to demonstrate
what we talk about so the banter we
have between us is showing
that that tension in action between two
polar positions often and we've learned
how to navigate between those two
positions ourselves so I think it's it's
interesting
it creates an interesting dynamic on
stage and I think it helps people to
picture how they can work with other
people more effectively because we're
trying to practice you know what we
preach do it do it in in practice it's
your life in real life I mean people
people want real-life stuff these days
don't they they want to see how does it
play out in the real world and when
you're booked for an event what are some
of those steps that you take to make
sure that it goes well and it's a great
success we put a lot of work in to first
of all understanding exactly what the
client is looking for so and what the
client needs so we'll always do our
background research to make sure that
whatever we deliver is pitched at the
right level and meeting the right needs
once we've done that then we will adapt
our material accordingly to make sure
that we've pulled out and we often work
with the client to do this to pull out
the most relevant pieces and to stitch
it together into a presentation that
really is very targeted to address the
needs of the audience and then we'll
just always ensure that there's not more
than five minutes of information ten
minutes maybe at the most
coming at them before we're switching
styles and engagement approaches so it
might be anything from a poll to getting
volunteers to speak up to talk to the
person next to you about this - it could
be anything we'll use the case studies
we'll have models if we're delivering it
virtually then we'll include the chat
room we'll use
breakout rooms we have a whole lot of
methods that we like to use to make sure
that it's a very highly targeted and
engaging experience amazing amazing so
if you can't get to a stage or a
boardroom or classroom because we can't
fly at the moment what are some other
ways that you reach the clients that
need to hear what you have to offer well
we've already been delivering virtual
sessions for a long time but more
intensely over the past few months so we
have experience in in making sure that
what the what the participant feels is
that we are there with them in the room
so it's it's always a conversation it's
always interactive we're not afraid of
feedback so if something pops up in the
chat that we think is interesting an
interesting point or a counterpoint or
something humorous we'll pick up on it
and we'll play play with it and go with
it and make that part of the discussion
so it's as much as possible we try to
ensure that the camera the TV the screen
isn't the barrier to the relationship that
we develop with the participants and we
try to do that on stage as well we make
sure that it's the participants don't
feel like they're one of a thousand
in the audience but will speak you know
individually to each person and pull out
people and ask people to put their hands
up and engage them and so on
so we've just found ways to transfer
that direct delivery experience to the
virtual online experience and it's been
highly successful so over the past few
weeks we've delivered to top IT
companies top manufacturing companies
we're delivering to a top airline
company a few top airline companies soon
so people are already feeling this is
working it works really well and they've
sort of held on to the face-to-face
experience for a long time but I think
they're realizing well you can actually
capture that same feeling in a virtual
experience too that's amazing it's clear
that you practice what you preach so
with that innovation and creativity
and identity how would a client measure
the return on investment it's a good
question and that's why I think the
measure is so helpful because we can
measure where someone is at in their
leadership behaviors we also have a
whole coaching program that's linked to
the delivery so it's it's not just us
you know delivering as a talking head we
we can you know we talked about the
interaction we also have you know
gamified simulations we have you know
workshops to in-depth workshop sessions
we have a coaching program and all of
this helps to embed the behaviors so
once we've identified you know what are
the target areas that you might need to
work on as a leader we can have people
just go off independently and work on
their profile themselves or we can
assist them with that process and can
assist teams so we have that online
continuity and in terms of return on
investment what you're looking at then
is your looking at well what areas of
behavior do we want to target do we need
to change and how successful have we
been in changing those behaviors and it
can be as specific as you know where
there's an individual who is not
performing up to scratch we want to find
out why not what's going on what do they
need to change and then we can work with
them on changing those behaviors and
then we can you know look at the end of
that journey
what have they succeeded what have they
achieved that's different and we can do
that not only at the individual level as
I said but as a team so we've worked
with teams where there's been issues and
challenges and by helping to to raise
the awareness about the different
perspectives that people take and the
different approaches that people have
and by building respect for those
differences and understanding the
communication styles that need to change
the behaviors that need to change to
support all of those perspectives and
bring out the best in everyone in the team
then we can improve the performance of
the team and we've had teams that have
actually improved their financial goals
significantly as a result of these
sessions where we work with them to
identify you know what are the gaps what
are the challenge areas what are the
greatest points of tension and how do we
how do we channel that tension because
you know tension can be highly
destructive or it can be highly
productive it can actually fuel
sustainable growth and so how do we
channel that harness it and use it to
really fuel a team and I can also do
that then at the organization level so
we can look at a culture measure see
where an organization is at and then
target what areas do we want to develop
what can we do differently and then you
can look at well what's the the outcome
the return on investment for you
know what we've been trying to achieve
so it's very practical and very easy to
look at what do you want done
differently what needs to change here's
how we can measure it very very
comprehensive very powerful thank you
I've got two more questions for you the
first one is a personal one and that is
and this is for all the people out
there that are working with their
partners or intend to work with their
partners you've worked said you've
been married thirty odd ideas and
you've been working so closely together
for a lot of that time so is that how do
you how do you shut off from work is
there like some you know in some of your
work you have like crime-scene tape
around work time in bed is absolutely
forbidden and every so often somebody
will say something just just as we're
about to go to sleep and the other
person will say do not talk about it now, write it down tell me in the morning it's hard very
very hard to do but it's interesting too
because we we have just had to learn to
place boundaries around you know what is
strictly needs to stay in the work space
work time
and what we need to protect for our
family's sake and for our own
relationships sake we have to put some
boundaries around you know what is
personal so we've had an office space
that we go out to in the morning we walk
to it and that's sort of to prepare
ourselves for the day then we come back
home we might work long hours but once
we're home the rule is there's no more
work talk and you don't open your laptop
and this it's absolutely essential
sending something to some other time
zone but we've learnt over time to
stick to those boundaries and to make
sure that we're most productive as a
team when we keep those boundaries
around what we do and we also have
better mental health now I noticed that
one of your keynotes is called how to
convert big ideas into action so if you
could wave a magic wand that would cause people to take just one action that
would make the most difference to their
business and their profitability what
would that one thing be I would come
back to ambidexterity I think once you
understand that you can't just sit in
one extreme position or the other that
you can't just be an explorer who you
know with these great new ideas but not
grounding them or you can't be someone
who's sort of very comfortable with
developing systems and structures but
you're not prepared to open up to new
ideas and new thinking you can't just
sit on one side or the other you have to
learn to recognize the importance of
both and to some extent you have to be
able to stretch yourself in both
directions and I think that's the
biggest key for the future that's what
we all need to know and learn to do
fantastic that is golden there so so
much richness in in what you've said
today so thank you so much thank you so
much for your time and your wisdom and
your openness and thank you for being
part of the ASU Files it's been lovely
thank you so much for the opportunity
Elly bye now bye
