♪
>> Doug: HELLO AND WELCOME TO
"FR. SPITZER'S UNIVERSE" AT THE
INTERSECTION OF FAITH AND
REASON.
I'M DOUG KECK YOUR TRAFFIC COP
HERE.
AND YOUR HOST COMING TO YOU FROM
OUR EWTN STUDIOS IN THE HEART OF
MOTHER ANGELICA'S BIRMINGHAM,
ALABAMA, IRONDALE STUDIO.
THIS IS THE MOTHERSHIP, WHERE
MOTHER STARTED IT ALL.
AND IT'S WHERE WE ANCHOR
EVERYTHING THAT WE DO HERE AT
EWTN.
THIS PROGRAM DOESN'T WORK
WITHOUT YOUR QUESTIONS.
EMAIL US, THOSE QUESTIONS AT
SPIRITS' UNIVERSE, ewtn.com.
POST YOUR QUESTIONS ON OUR
FACEBOOK PAGE AND POST THEM AT
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AND NOW, INFORMATION ON THE
SCENE FOR FACEBOOK, TWITTER, AND
AGAIN, DON'T FORGET THE
magiscenter.com BECAUSE YOU CAN
FIND OUT EVERYTHING ABOUT FR.
SPITZER AND WHAT HE'S DOING.
magiscenter.com AND BEFORE WE
GO OUT TO FR. SPITZER, I WANTED
TO MENTION THE WONDERFUL BOOK
THAT WE'VE JUST REPUBLISHED,
LATEST NEW EDITION, FIRST TIME
EVER IN SOFT COVER, MOTHER
ANGELICA'S ANSWERS AND NOT
PROMISES AND WONDERFUL WORK OF
HER.
FEATURING STRAIGHT FORWARD
SOLUTIONS TO LIFE'S PUZZLING
PROBLEMS AND ALL NEW FOREWORD BY
FATHER MARY JOSEPH WOLF AND THE
WAYS TO -- BELIEVING IN MIRACLES
IS OUR TOPIC TODAY AND WE ONCE
AGAIN JOIN OUR HOST, FR. SPITZER
OUT IN THE WEST COAST AT CHRIST
CATHEDRAL STUDIOS IN ORANGE
COUNTY, CALIFORNIA.
HELLO FR. SPITZER ON THIS FOURTH
OF JULY WEEK.
>> Father: GREAT TO BE HERE,
WITH YOU.
>> WE'RE TALKING ABOUT GOD'S
EXISTENCE, MIRACLES, THEN AND
NOW.
GIVE ME A QUESTION, I UNDERSTAND
THE MIRACLES OF JESUS THEN.
WHAT DO DO YOU MEAN WHEN YOU
CAME UP WITH THE MIRACLES OF
JESUS NOW.
ARE YOU SAYING JESUS IS STILL
PERFORMING MIRACLES TODAY?
>> Father: ABSOLUTELY!
AND OF COURSE, WE KNOW THAT
JESUS GAVE HIS APOSTLES THE
POWER TO PERFORM MIRACLES
THROUGH THE POWER OF THE HOLY
SPIRIT IN HIS NAME.
SO, IT'S IN THE NAME OF JESUS.
AND OF COURSE, WE ALSO BELIEVE
THAT, YOU KNOW, JESUS CAN WORK
MIRACLES THROUGH THE
INTERCESSION OF HIS MOTHER AND
THROUGH THE INTERCESSION OF
SAINTS AND PROSPECTIVE SAINTS.
AND THAT'S ONE OF THE WAYS IN
WHICH A SAINT, AS IT WERE,
BECOMES CANONIZED, THROUGH THE
WORKINGS OF THESE MANY MIRACLES.
INDEED, YES, YES, JESUS
DEFINITELY CAN, THE NAME OF
JESUS IS STILL A POWERFUL THING
AND THE POWER OF JESUS IN THE
HOLY SPIRIT, VERY POWERFUL,
AGENCY OF HEALING AND OF
MIRACLES TO THIS VERY DAY.
>> IT'S INTERESTING TOO AND I
KNOW ONE OF THE THINGS WE TALKED
ABOUT, THE EXISTENCE OF GOD AND
THE WHOLE SECULAR WORLD AND THE
SOUTH THERE, YOU THINK IN TERMS
OF MIRACLES TODAY, SOMETIMES
SEEN AS SOMETHING THAT MAY HAVE
EXISTED IN THE PAST.
THEY DON'T EXIST ANYMORE,
THEOLOGICALLY OR MISSION
UNDERSTANDINGS, SOME OF THE
PEOPLE THAT WE HEARD BEFORE,
LIKE SPIN OWESSA, SPINOZA, AN
EVENT THAT WAS UNABLE TO BE
EXPLAINED BY OTHER VENTS TO
EXPERIENCE.
BECAUSE IT'S ALL ABOUT
EXPERIENCE.
AND PEOPLE LIKE LOTT.
AND IS THAT A REASON WHY WE SEEM
TO HAVE A SKEPTICAL THINKING
WHEN IT COMES TO MIRACLES TODAY?
>> Father: YEAH, I MEAN, THERE
WAS A WHOLE LEAD-IN TO THIS KIND
OF SKEPTICISM.
YOU KNOW, PART OF IT HAS TO DO
WITH AN OVERREACTION TO THE
BEAUTIFUL NATURAL SCIENCES.
RIGHT, NATURAL SCIENCES TAKEN TO
THEIR ENDS CAN BE THE WAY OF
VALIDATING A MIRACLE.
AND THERE'S A MOVEMENT CALLED
SANETISM, SCIENTISM WHICH
APPEARED FOR PHYSICAL REALITY.
AND YOU KNOW, THAT WHICH I
DESCRIBED BEFORE IS SELF-REF
UTATIONAL BECAUSE AS SOON AS YOU
MAKE THE STATEMENT, ALL REALITY
MUST BE OBSERVABLE, YOU CAN'T
PROVE THE STATEMENT BY MEANS OF
OBSERVATIONAL EVIDENCE BECAUSE
OF COURSE YOU HAVE TO KNOW WHAT
YOU DON'T KNOW IN ORDER TO SHOW
THAT EVERYTHING IS
OBSERVATIONAL.
AND IF THERE'S SOMETHING OUTSIDE
OF OBSERVATION AND EVERYTHING IS
REDUCIBLE TO OBSERVATION, YOU
WOULDN'T KNOW IT.
SO IT'S A COMPLETELY REFUTABLE
STATEMENT.
THAT SCIENTISM IS WHAT GOT OFF
THE GROUND.
AND ANTECEDENTS TO THIS, SPINOZA
AND HE RESOLVED AHEAD OF TIME,
IF IT'S LOOKING LIKE A MIRACLE,
WE DON'T KNOW THE NATURAL CAUSE
THAT CAUSED IT.
NOW, ESSENTIALLY, THERE'S NO
SENSE OF QUANTUM PHYSICS,
EVERYBODY THINKS THAT THE
SCIENTIFIC LAWS ARE HUMANISM.
WELL, NOBODY BELIEVES THAT
TODAY.
NOBODY BELIEVES IN COMPLETE
DETERMINE NISM TODAY.
IN FACT, THE UNCERTAINTY
PRINCIPLE OF HIGHSENBERG, THE
WHOLE AREA OF QUANTUM PHYSICS IS
ALTERNATIVELY CALLED THE
PRINCIPLE OF INDETERMINE NANCY.
RIGHT?
I MEAN, THERE'S INDETERMINACY
AND ALL OF THOSE ARGUMENTS, EVEN
THE IMPLIED CONTIAN ARGUMENTS
AGAINST MIRACLES BASED ON
SCIENTIFICALLY DETERMINISTIC
LAWS OF NATURE ARE COMPLETELY
THROWN OUT THE WINDOW.
I MEAN, NOBODY BELIEVES THIS
ANYMORE.
EVEN STRICT NATURALISTS BELIEVE
THAT.
QUANTUM THEORY DISPROVES IT.
AND OF COURSE, THIS KIND OF VIEW
PERSISTS.
THERE'S A LOT OF SCIENTISTS OUT
THERE WHO PREFER TO REMAIN
NATURALISTIC.
AND WE'LL TALK A LITTLE LATER ON
IN THE PROGRAM ABOUT ALEXIS
CARROLL WHO IS AUTO NOBEL PRIZE
WINNER AND VERY MUCH AN AGNOSTIC
WHO DIDN'T WANT TO BELIEVE IN
MIRACLES.
BUT IN THE END, HE COULDN'T DENY
IT.
AND IT WAS RIGHT UP TO HIS NECK
AS IT WERE.
AND THE MAIN THING, THERE WERE A
LOT OF PEOPLE THAT HOLD THAT AS
A NATURAL PREJUDICE AND THERE'S
SUCH AMPLE EVIDENCE BASED ON
GOOD SCIENTIFIC ANALYSIS.
MEDICAL ANALYSIS.
PHYSICAL CAUSATION THAT SHOWS
THAT THERE ARE ARE SOME KIND OF
TRANS PHYSICAL CAUSES AT WORK
THAT ARE NOT REDUCIBLE MERELY
INEXPLICABLE OR NATURAL CAUSES
BUT REAL TRANS PHYSICAL CAUSES.
THAT OF COURSE, WE CAN TALK
ABOUT THOSE MODERN MIRACLES THAT
HAVE BEEN TESTED OUT AND WE CAN
CERTAINLY ALSO TALK ABOUT SOME
OF THE ANCIENT MIRACLES LIKE
RAISING FROM THE DEAD THAT JUST
CANNOT ACCOUNTED FOR ANY NATURAL
TERMS.
AND WE'VE BEEN TALKING ABOUT
THAT TOO IN THE SHROUD OF TURIN,
HOW DOES A DEAD BODY PRODUCE
SEVERAL BILLION WATTS VACUUM OF
RADIATION FOR 1/40TH -- CREATING
PERFECTLY THREE DIMENSIONAL
PHOTOGRAPHIC IMAGE IN 1/40TH
BILLION OF A SECOND.
TELL ME HOW YOU EXPLAIN THAT
WITH UNKNOWN NATURAL CAUSES.
IT'S NOT GOING TO HAPPEN.
>> SO FOR ALL INTENSIVE
PURPOSES, I THINK THERE'S
REASONABLE AND RESPONSIBLE
EVIDENCE FOR MIRACLES TODAY AND
CERTAINLY ULTIMATE SCIENTIFIC
JUSTIFICATION FOR IT AND THE
PRINCIPLE OF INDETERMINACY WHICH
IS INTRINSIC FOR QUANTUM THEORY
>> Doug: OKAY.
LET'S PICK THIS UP ON AN EMAIL.
HAVE ANY MODERN DAY MIRACLES
BEEN BROUGHT TO THE ATTENTION OF
SCIENTIFIC DEBATE ON WHETHER OR
NOT GOD EXISTS.
HOW WOULD AN ATHEIST IN THE
FIELD THAT YOU WERE TALKING
ABOUT BEFORE RESPOND TO THE
REVELATIONS OF MIRACLES.
WHAT'S YOUR EXPERIENCES WITH
THIS?
FATHER, PLEASE, SHARE WITH US.
DEVON FROM IDAHO.
YOU TALKING ABOUT PEOPLE THAT
HAVE BEEN INFECTED OR IMPACTED
BY THIS.
GO AHEAD.
>> Father: H-MM.
YEAH, THERE'S A LOT OF
SCIENTISTS PERSONALLY IMPACTED
BY IT.
BUT THEY DON'T GENERALLY USE
MIRACLES AS A PROOF OF GOD.
I'M NOT SURE WHY.
PEOPLE DON'T USE NEAR DEATH
EXPERIENCES AS A PROOF OF GOD.
I DO NOT KNOW WHY.
THINK THERE'S KIND OF AN
AVERSION TO IT IN THE SCIENTIFIC
COMMUNITY.
RIGHT NOW, WHERE THE ARGUMENT IN
THE SCIENTIFIC DEBATE ARE TAKING
PLACE ARE IN FOUR MAJOR AREAS
THAT ARE MORE GLOBAL SCIENTIFIC
THEORIES.
SO, FIRST OF ALL, THE BIG BANG
THEORY UNIVERSALLY BELIEVED,
GIVEN THAT, AND AS I TALKED
ABOUT BEFORE, THE BOARD OF
LINCOLN AND GOOF PROOF, A BIG
AREA THAT PRODUCES A LOT OF
SCIENTIFIC DEBATE ABOUT GOD.
IF YOU BELIEVE THAT THE BOARD OF
LINCOLN AND GOOF PROOF SHOWING
THAT EXPANDING OF MULTI-VERSE,
STRICT UNIVERSE AND YOU
INTERPRET THAT AS THE BEGINNING
OF REALITY IS IMPLYING CREATOR.
THE EVIDENCE OF ENTROPY IS NOT
ONLY THE EVIDENCE FOR THE
BEGINNING OF THE UNIVERSE BUT
THE BEGINNING FOR ANY PHYSICAL
SYSTEM WHICH LIKE WISE WOULD
IMPLY A CREATOR.
AND THEN YOU HAVE WHAT'S CALLED
A VARIETY OF DIFFERENT ARGUMENTS
ON THE BASIS OF ANTHROPIC
COINCIDENCES, THIS IS FINE
TUNING AT THE BIG BANG OF THE
UNIVERSE THAT'S INTERPRETING AS
EVIDENCE OF CREATION.
AND THESE WHERE THE BASIC
DEBATES ARE TAKING PLACE.
BUT ALAS, AN ANSWER TO THE
QUESTION.
IT'S NOT TAKING PLACE ALONG THE
LINE OF MIRACLES.
THINK IT SHOULD.
THINK IT SHOULD TAKE PLACE ON
LINE OF NEAR DEATH EXPERIENCES.
I THINK THIS IS REALLY AN
IMPORTANT AREA THAT IS
ACCESSIBLE TO OBSERVATIONAL
EVIDENCE BUT THESE ARE DONE AND
NOT DONE SEEMS TO BE AN AVERSION
TO PUTTING THE DEBATE IN THAT
AREA BUT NEVERTHELESS, YOU KNOW,
MIRACLES ARE CERTAINLY A PLACE
TO START.
IF YOU WANT EVIDENCE OF TRANS
PHYSICAL POWER IN THE NATURAL
WORLD, WHICH IS DONE THROUGH THE
NAME OF JESUS, THERE IS AT LEAST
A REASONABLE AND RESPONSIBLE
IMPLICATION OF JESUS' DIVINITY
AND HIS CONTINUED POWER MANIFEST
OF THE HOLY SPIRIT IN THE WORLD.
AND THE SAME THING WITH NEAR
DEATH EXPERIENCE.
THERE'S REASONABLE AND
RESPONSIBLE BELIEF THAT YOUR
TRANS PHYSICAL SOUL SURVIVES
THAT BUT ALSO APPROACH A LOVING
WHITE LIGHT OR DECEASED
RELATIVES OR JESUS HIMSELF IN A
STATE OF PARADISE AND OTHER
WORLDLY DOMAINS.
THEY REALLY DON'T ENTER INTO THE
SCIENTIFIC DEBATE AS THE
QUESTIONER.
I WAS READING AN ARTICLE IN
PREPARATION FOR THIS PARTICULAR
PROGRAM THAT WE'RE DOING ON
MIRACLES.
THIS PERSON POINTS OUT IN THE
ARTICLE SIGNIFICANT THAT WHAT
THEY CALL THE REIGN OF LAW IN
NATURE, ATTESTING THE NATURAL
OCCURRENCES OF MIRACLES.
THE QUESTION IS, IS THAT A
CONTRADICTION OR ARE WE SAYING,
THE NATURAL LAW, REIGN OF LAW
AND THAT'S WHY THINGS WORK THE
WAY GOD SET IT UP AND YET, WE'RE
OKAY WITH GOING OUTSIDE OF THE
NATURAL LAW.
HOW DO WE JUSTIFY THAT POSITION?
>> Father: YEAH, THE REIN OF
LAW IN NATURE, THAT DOES NOT
MEAN ANYTHING LIKE WHAT WE MEAN
BY A PHYSICAL CAUSATION AND
NATURAL LAWS IN THE SCIENTIFIC
SENSE.
IN THE BIBLICAL WORLD VIEW,
JESUS IS, YOU KNOW, INTIMATES
THAT GOD IS VERY ACTIVE IN THE
WORLD CONTINUOUSLY AND THIS IS
THE BELIEF ALSO IN THE OLD
TESTAMENT IS THAT GOD IS CAUSING
THINGS TO HAPPEN.
NOW, JESUS DOESN'T SAY, GOD IS
DOING THIS, HE SAYS, FOR
EXAMPLE, GOD CAUSES HIS SON TO
SHINE OR RISE ON THE EVIL AS
WELL AS THE GOOD.
AND HE CAUSES HIS REIGN TO FALL
ON THE RIGHTEOUS AS WELL AS THE
UNRIGHTEOUS.
SO, THE IDEA OF DIVINE CAUSATION
IN NATURE IS VERY MUCH A PART OF
THE WAY THAT THE BIBLICAL
SCRIPTURES VIEW NATURE.
AND SO, HAVING GOD, YOU PERFORM
A MIRACLE WAS GOD'S SPECIAL
INTERVENTION IN THE NATURAL
WORLD BUT WAS, YOU KNOW, THERE
IS NOT THIS IDEA OF
DETERMINISTIC PHYSICAL LAWS.
THAT STARTS THE CHANGE WITH
ARISTOTLE AND ARISTOTLE'S WORKS
COMING UP INTO EUROPE.
AND WHEN THIS HAPPENS, IT'S ST.
THOMAS AQUINAS HIMSELF WHO FORMS
THESE LAWS OF SECONDARY
CAUSATION FROM THE WORKS OF
ARISTOTLE WHICH IN TURN, OUR OWN
ST. THOMAS IS THE ONE WHO PAVES
THE WAY FOR THE IDEA OF NATURAL
LAWS THAT CAN OPERATE
INDEPENDENTLY OF DIVINE
CAUSATION OF COURSE GOD IS
CREATING THE LAWS BUT HE'S NOT
MAKING THE LAWS OPERATE.
THEY HAVE SECONDARY CAUSATION.
THEY HAVE AN EFFICACY IND DEND
ENT OF THE -- INDEPENDENT OF THE
DIVINE POWER BECAUSE THAT'S THE
WAY GOD WILLED IT AND WANTS IT
TO HAVE SECONDARY CAUSES.
SO, IT'S ST. THOMAS AQUINAS THAT
GETS IT OFF THE GROUND AND PAVES
THE WAY FOR THE NATURAL
SCIENCES.
AND THEN, OF COURSE, LATER, WE
SEE THE NATURAL SCIENTIFIC
COMMUNITY RUNNING WITH IT.
SO, NO, THERE'S NO CONTRADICTION
IN THE SCRIPTURES AN THERE'S NO
CONTRADICTION IN THE MODERN
WORLD VIEW BECAUSE PHYSICAL LAWS
ARE NOT VIEWED AS DETERMINISTIC.
SO THAT'S THE ANSWER.
>> Doug: LET'S TAKE A BREAK ON
THAT POINT.
WE'LL BE BACK WITH MORE WITH FR.
SPITZER TALKING ABOUT OUR TOPIC
TODAY, THE MIRACLES OF JESUS,
THEN AND NOW.
MUCH MORE AHEAD!
STAY WITH US RIGHT HERE ON "FR.
SPITZER'S UNIVERSE".
♪
♪
>> Doug: THANKS FOR STAYING
WITH US HERE AT
FR. SPITZER'S UNIVERSE,
WE'RE TALKING ABOUT THE TOPIC
OF MIRACLES
AND AS WE JOIN FATHER ONCE MORE
LET ME ASK YOU THIS QUESTION,
FATHER, JUST THINKING
ABOUT THE WORD MIRCALE
AND THE LATIN MEANING TO WONDER
AND THEY SAY, I WONDER,
DOES THAT MEAN THAT WE CAN'T BE
SURE THAT IT'S REALLY THE WORK
OF JESUS OR OF GOD, IF IT MEANS
TO WONDER?
WHAT'S YOUR TAKE.
>> WELL, ACTUALLY, I THINK THAT
THE WHOLE IDEA IS THAT IT CAUSES
WONDER AND AWE AND SO, IT'S A
SLIGHTLY DIFFERENT THING.
IT'S NOT SO MUCH THAT IT CAUSES
ME TO QUESTION, BUT WONDER HAS
ANOTHER MEANING AND IT'S, LIKE,
BEING AWED BY SOMETHING, I MEAN,
IT'S WONDERFUL, AWE-INSPIRING
AND OF COURSE, IT DOES CAUSE
WONDER IN THAT SENSE, THAT
POINTS TO GOD.
THE OLD TESTAMENT AND NEW
TESTAMENT FOR GOD ARE DEED OF
POWER.
SO, SOMETIMES, YOU KNOW, WHAT
YOU SEE, IT'S GOD'S POWER AND
THIS IS A DEED OF POWER.
IT'S A MANIFESTATION OF GOD'S
POWER AND THESE ARE TWO TERMS
THAT ARE USED.
BUT THE LATIN IS DEFINITELY,
CAUSES OF, CAUSES WONDER.
AND THE OTHER THING, JUST BEFORE
I ANSWERED QUESTIONS ABOUT SOME
OF THE NEWER MIRACLES OUT THERE,
THE TOPIC OF THIS IS AGAIN
MIRACLES OF JESUS, THEN AND NOW.
WHY ARE THEY CONSIDERED MIRACLES
OF JESUS WHEN WE SAY THAT.
I UNDERSTAND WHAT OUR LORD SAYS,
WHY ON THE PENTECOST WASN'T THAT
A MIRACLE OF THE HOLY SPIRIT.
AND TODAY, WHY ISN'T IT THE HOLY
SPIRIT WHO GETS CREDIT FOR A
MIRACLE OF JESUS OR AM I
SPLITTING HAIRS?
>> WELL, I WOULD SAY THIS.
IT IS THE POWER OF THE HOLY
SPIRIT THAT'S BEEN GIVEN TO THE
APOSTLES.
AND THE HOLY SPIRIT IS THE POWER
OF GOD HIMSELF.
SO, ESSENTIALLY, HE IS THE POWER
BEHIND THE MIRACLE.
BUT THE MIRACLE IS PERFORMED IN
CHRISTIANITY, IN THE NAME OF
JESUS.
AND EVEN IF, FOR EXAMPLE, DONE
THROUGH THE INTERCESSION OF
MARY, IT'S STILL DONE THROUGH
THE NAME OF JESUS, THAT IS TO
SAY, THE ESSENCE AND THE
AUTHORITY OF JESUS.
ASSOCIATION THE HOLY SPIRIT IS
WORKING THROUGH THE AUTHORITY OF
JESUS TO PERFORM THIS DEED OF
POWER THROUGH A PARTICULAR
APOSTLE OR TODAY THROUGH A
PARTICULAR CANDIDATE OR
PARTICULAR PERSON.
SO, THE IDEA IS, YES, IT'S THE
AUTHORITY OF JESUS, IT'S THE
POWER OF THE HOLY SPIRIT THAT
CAUSES THE MIRACLE TO WORK.
>> OKAY.
VERY GOOD.
AND NEXT UP, AN EMAIL, FATHER.
SEEMS LIKE JESUS PERFORMED SO
MANY MIRACLES DURING THE TIMES
OF THE EARLY CHURCH WHICH WE SEE
IN THE BIBLE AND IN THE
SCRIPTURE.
BUT NOW WE NEVER HEAR ABOUT
CURRENT MIRACLES, AT LEAST NOT
SO MUCH.
AREN'T CHRIST'S MIRACLES ALIVE
AND KICKING TODAY.
PLEASE DISCUSS, AND THIS IS
MARIANNE FROM TAMPA.
>> Father: WELL, MARY ANN,
ABSOLUTELY, SO WE NOW TODAY
WE HAVE THE CAPACITY TO ACTUALLY
VALIDATE THESE MIRACLES.
AND SO, OF COURSE, THE
VALIDATION OF THE MIRACLES
THROUGH SCIENTIFIC OR MEDICAL
MEANS ARE REALLY REMARKABLE.
LET ME GIVE YOU ONE EXAMPLE.
ST. JOHN PAUL II.
OKAY.
SO, WE HAVE A WHOLE MEDICAL
TEAM, SEVEN MEDICAL EXPERTS THAT
VALIDATE THE MIRACLE THAT TAKES
PLACE IN THE 1990'S, TO A WOMAN
NAMED FLOORY BETH MORA.
SHE HAS A BRAIN ANEURYSM.
AND SHE'S INSTANTLY CURED OF THE
BRAIN ANEURYSM.
AND THE TEAM HAS TO CONCLUDE AT
THE END, THERE'S NO PHYSICAL
CAUSE TO EXPLAIN THIS.
I MEAN, AGAIN, THE ONE WITH
FULTON J. SHEEN, THE MIRACLE
THAT HAPPENED IN 2010 WITH
THENING STROHM FAMILY.
RIGHT?
ENGSTROM FAMILY.
THIS BABY WAS BORN STILL BORN,
WITHOUT A HEART BEAT FOR ONE
HOUR AFTER HE IS BORN!
AND THEN, ON TOP OF THIS, HIS
HEART STARTS BEATING ONE HOUR
AFTER HIS BIRTH, WHEN THEY START
PRAYING THROUGH THE INTERCESSION
OF FULTON J. SHEEN.
AND OF COURSE, THE SCIENTIFIC
BOARD OF SEVEN, SCIENTIFIC AND
MEDICAL CONSULTANTS CONCLUDE,
OH, MY, GOODNESS, CAN'T BE
EXPLAINED IN TERMS OF A PHYSICAL
CAUSE.
AND POPE PAUL VI, ONE OF THE
MIRACLES BEHIND HIS
CANONIZATION, FUTURE
CANONIZATION IS THAT HE WAS
LITERALLY, THERE'S A CHILD IN
UTERO WHO HAS SUBSTANTIAL BRAIN
DAMAGE, RIGHT?
THEY PRAYED, PARENTS PRIDE
THROUGH THE INTERCESSION OF PAUL
VI.
AND THIS CHILD LITERALLY NOT
ONLY COMES OUT PERFECTLY SOUND,
WITHOUT ANY BRAIN DAMAGE, BUT
TODAY, HE'S A LIVE, FUNCTIONING
PERFECTLY NORMAL PERSON.
HOW DOES THIS HAPPEN?
AND INEXPLICABLE IN TERMS OF
PHYSICAL TERMS.
NOW, THE 69TH VALIDATE HAD
MIRACLE, AND OF COURSE, THERE'S
THOUSANDS OF MIRACLES TAKEN
PLACE IN LOURDES BUT THERE'S A
WHOLE PROCESS SET UP BY THE
LOURDES MEDICAL COMMISSION TO
EXAMINE THESE AGAIN WITH THE
COMMITTEE OF DOCTORS AND
SCIENTISTS WHO ARE SPEAKING
ANY -- SEEKING ANY KNOWN
PHYSICAL EXPLANATION FOR THE
MYRRH KLINGS.
AND THE 69TH VALIDATED ONE AT
LOURDES JUST GOTAPPROVED.
IT WAS A WOMAN, I BELIEVE,
CATHALINO HAD SEVERAL SURGERIES
FOR TUMORS AND GOING BACK FOR
THE FOURTH FOR ANOTHER TUMOR AND
OF COURSE, THE END OF THE ROW.
AND SHE DECIDES, INSTEAD OF
GOING TO THE SURGERY, SHE GOES
TO LOURDES.
AND OF COURSE, SHE COMES OUT OF
LOURDES AND ABSOLUTELY NO
MANIFESTATION OF THE TUMOR
CONTRARY TO ALL OF THE X-RAYS,
CONTRARY TO ALL OF THE OTHER
KNOWN PHYSICAL CAUSES.
THAT WAS JUST APPROVED VERY
RECENTLY.
ALEX ITION CARROLL MIRACLE IS
REALLY A TERRIFIC ONE.
ALEXIS, GOING BACK TO 1902 AT
THE BEGINNING OF THE LOURDES
MEDICAL COMMISSION.
BUT ALEXIS CARROLL IS A DOCTOR
WHO HAD ONE NOBEL PRIZE.
AND NOT ONLY THAT, THIS IS THE
GUY THAT DISCOVERS THE HEART
PUMP.
DISCOVERS HOW TO SUTURE BLOOD
VESSELS.
THIS IS A GUY WHO KEPT LIVING
TISSUE ALIVE SO THAT IT COULD BE
UTILIZED AND REPLACED, YOU KNOW,
IN A BODY.
THIS IS A BRIGHT CREATIVE GUY
AND CONVINCED, I LOVE TO SAY THE
IRONY OF IT, CONVINCED AGNOSTIC.
AND THIS FELLOW LITERALLY IS ON
A TRAIN.
OKAY.
SOMEBODY CONVINCES HIM TO HELP
TAKE MEDICAL PATIENTS FROM PARIS
TO LOUDZ.
SO, HE GETS TALKED INTO IT.
HE GOES ON THE TRAIN AND HE
MEETS THIS WOMAN WHO IS ON THE
TRAIN WHO IS LITERALLY IN THE
PROCESS OF DYING.
SO, SHE'S ON THE TRAIN.
SHE HAS A COMPLETELY DISTENDED
ABDOMEN, LUMPS IN THE ABDOMEN
AND ALL OF THE TUBERCULOSIS
SIGNS OF LUNG INFECTION, RIGHT.
SHE'S OBVIOUSLY AN ADVANCED CASE
OF TUBERCULAR PERITONITIS AND
SHE'S ON THE TRAIN WITH DOCTOR
AND HE GIVES HER MORPHINE TO
HELP HER IN THE PROCESS OF
DYING.
AND HE GOES, WOW, THIS PERSON IS
GOING TO DIE RIGHT WHEN SHE GETS
TO LOURDES.
SO, OF COURSE, HE DOESN'T
CONNECT WITH HER HER.
SHE GOES TO LOURDES, BATHED IN
THE WATER THREE TIMES AND LOSES
COMPLETELY THE ABDOMINAL
DISTENSION.
SHE LOSES ALL OF THE EFFECTS OF
THE TUBERCULOSIS IN HER LUNGS.
SHE LITERALLY WALKS BACK ON TO
THE TRAIN FROM LOURDES UNDER HER
OWN POWER.
ALEXIS CARROLL IS LOOKING AT
THIS AND GOING, NO WAY.
NO POSSIBLE WAY.
SO, OF COURSE, NOW HE'S STUCK.
OF COURSE, HE DOESN'T WANT TO
ADMIT THAT, YOU KNOW, THERE'S
NOT SOME POSSIBLE EXPLANATION.
SO, HE KIND OF HOLDS ON FOR A
WHILE.
AND EVENTUALLY, YOU KNOW, HE
WITNESSES ANOTHER MIRACLE OF AN
18 MONTH OLD BOY, BLIND FROM
BIRTH AND RECEIVES HIS SIGHT
INSTANTANEOUSLY.
THAT DID IT.
HE COULDN'T RESIST ANY LONGER.
HE FINALLY SAYS, NO, NO, THERE'S
A TRANS PHYSICAL CAUSE HERE.
THERE'S A GOD HERE AND IT'S
RELATED TO LOURDES.
IT'S RELATED TO THE MOTHER OF
OUR LORD.
AND FOR ALL INTENSIVE PURPOSES,
HE BECOMES A CATHOLIC.
WRITES A BOOK CALLED THE VOYAGE
TO LOURDES WHICH OF COURSE IS
TRANSLATED.
BUT THESE ARE THE KINDS OF
THINGS THAT ARE HAPPENING.
AND MODERN EUCHARISTIC MIRACLES
AS WELL.
AND THAT ONE WITH POPE FRANCIS
IN BUENOS AIRES, I THINK IN
1996, THAT'S A COMPLETE BAFFLER.
HOW DO YOU EXPLAIN THIS ONE?
HERE, YOU HAVE POPE FRANCIS,
WELL, HE WAS NOT INVOLVED IN IT.
I MEAN, A PRIEST BY THE NAME OF
FATHER ALEJANDRO AND A LADY
INFORMS HIM THAT A CONSECRATED
HOST WAS DISCARDED AND LEFT IN A
CANDLE HOLDER.
AND THE WAY TO DISPOSE IT IS TO
PUT IT INTO A GLASS OF WATER
UNTIL IT'S DISSOLVED.
AND HE TAKES THE HOST, PUTS IT
IN A GLASS OF WATER AND PUTS IT
IN THE TABERNACLE FULLY
EXPECTING THAT IN A COUPLE OF
DAYS IT'S GOING TO BE COMPLETELY
DISSOLVED.
THEN COMES BACK AND IT'S NOT
DISSOLVED.
IN FACT, IT SEEMS TO BE
TRANSFORMING.
AND OF COURSE, IT WINDS UP THAT
AFTER A MONTH, THIS THING,
INSTEAD OF DISSOLVING HAS TURNED
INTO A PIECE OF FLESH!
SO, OF COURSE, THE GUY GOES AND
TAKES PICTURES OF IT.
AND HE SENDS IT AT THAT TIME TO
ARCHBISHOP BERGOGLIO WHO IS
ABOUT TO BECOME POPE FRANCIS.
AND OF COURSE, BERGOGLIO SAYS,
TAKE THESE PICTURES AND YOU
KNOW, WE'RE GOING TO VERIFY THAT
THIS IS HAPPENING.
SO, HE TAKES THE PICTURES.
AND THEN, THEY ACTUALLY TAKE
THIS, THEY KEEP IT IN THE
TABERNACLE.
FORGET THIS, THREE YEARS.
THEY KEEP IT IN THE TABERNACLE.
AND THEN, THEY TAKE IT OUT OF
THE TABERNACLE.
AND NOTHING BUT DISTILLED WATER
TO PRESERVE IT.
AND THEY SEND THE SAMPLE TO A
WORLD FAMOUS CARDIOLOGIST IN NEW
YORK AND THEY DON'T TELL HIM
WHAT IT'S ABOUT.
THEY JUST SAY, WOULD YOU PLEASE
TEST THE SAMPLE AND TELL US WHAT
IT IS.
AND THEY DIDN'T KNOW WHAT IT IS,
THEY DIDN'T KNOW IT CAME FROM
THE HEART.
AND THE GUY COMES BACK AND SAYS,
OH, THIS IS DEFINITIVELY, A
PIECE OF FLESH, TISSUE THAT HAS
COME FROM THE HEART, FROM THE
NEXT VENTRICLE PRECISELY WITH
BLOOD TYPE AB.
AND HERE'S THE BIZARRE PART.
OKAY.
THE WHITE CELL COUNT IS THIS IS
EXCEEDINGLY HIGH AND THE ONLY
WAY IN WHICH THOSE WHITE CELLS
COULD EXIST IN THE HEART AT THAT
TIME WAS IF THE HEART HAD BEEN
ALIVE WHEN THE TISSUE SAMPLE WAS
REMOVED.
IN OTHER WORDS, THIS WAS A LIVE
PIECE OF HEART TISSUE!
THAT WAS IN THERE AND THE WHILE
CELL COUNT DEFINITIVELY PROVES
THIS.
WHEN HE WAS TOLD THAT IT CAME
FROM A HOST THAT HAD BEEN IN
DISTILLED WATER FOR THREE YEARS,
I THINK IT JUST KNOCKED HIM.
NOW, I DON'T KNOW WHAT THE
HISTORY OF THAT PHYSICIAN WAS.
BUT I HEARD A STORY THAT MAYBE
HE FOUND A FAITH THAT HE DID NOT
HAVE BEFORE.
I HAVEN'T VERIFIED THAT.
BUT CERTAINLY, IT WOULD HAVE
VERIFIED MY FAITH!
I MEAN, RIGHT THERE, HAVE YOU A
EUCHARISTIC MIRACLE IN WHICH
POPE FRANCIS IS INVOLVED.
AND IT HAS REMARKABLE SCIENTIFIC
EVIDENCE ATTACHED TO IT.
SO, WE'RE LIVING IN A VERY GREAT
PERIOD OF TIME, WHERE FOR ALL
INTENSIVE PURPOSES WE CAN GET
VERIFICATION OF THESE AND MANY,
MANY, MANY MORE MIRACLES WITH
GOOD SCIENTIFIC AND MEDICAL
MANIFESTATIONS AS TO THE ABSENCE
OF A NATURAL CAUSE IMPLYING A
TRANS PHYSICAL OR METAPHYSICAL
OR DIVINE OR SUPERNATURAL CAUSE.
ASSOCIATION COME EAT.
>> LET ME ASK YOU ABOUT THIS,
FATHER.
I'M NOT FAMILIAR WITH THAT, THE
LATE GREAT BOB AND PENNY LORD,
DID A WHOLE SERIES OF BOOKS
RELATED TO EUCHARISTIC MIRACLES.
AND THERE'S A COUPLE OF SERIES
ON THAT.
IT'S ALWAYS VERY POWERFUL AND
PEOPLE SAID, GEE, HOW COME WE
DON'T HEAR MORE ABOUT THIS, THIS
PARTICULAR MIRACLE AND I CAN'T
SAY OUTSIDE OF WHAT YOU HAVE
SPOKEN ABOUT TODAY THAT I KNEW
THAT MUCH ABOUT IT AT ALL.
IS THERE A RETICENCE THAT
SOMETIMES IN THE CHURCH THAT
PROMOTES THESE THINGS?
ARE THERE PEOPLE OUT THERE WHO
ARE ALMOST A LITTLE EMBARRASSED
OF THESE THINGS OR ARE AFRAID
THAT THEY ARE GOING TO TURN OUT
TO BE NOT TRUE.
IS THAT THE IMPACT OF SECULARISM
OR IMPACT ON THE CHURCH, PEOPLE
IN THE CHURCH
>> Father: YEAH.
EXACTLY.
AND AS A MATTER OF FACT, I WOULD
HAVE TO SAY THAT YOU KNOW, FIRST
OF ALL, THERE ARE PEOPLE WHO ARE
A LITTLE BIT ASHAMED OF THEM.
AND YOU KNOW, THEY DON'T WANT TO
BE SNICKERED AT BY THE NATURAL
WORLD.
ALSO, THERE ARE PEOPLE THERE WHO
ARE WORRIED ABOUT FRAUD, THAT
SOMEBODY COULD PERPETRATE A
FRAUD, LIKE THE ONE, I BELIEVE,
IN SALT LAKE CITY AND THERE WAS
A EUCHARISTIC HOST AND IT TURNED
OUT NOT TO BE.
SO, IF YOU WANT, YOU KNOW, ALL
HAVE YOU TO DO IS TYPE IN PEZET,
1996 BUENOS AIRES, POPE FRANCIS
EUCHARISTIC MIRACLE.
IT WILL COME UP IN 50 DIFFERENT
PLACES ON YOUR GOOGLE.
AND I'LL TELL YOU, BOY, THE FACT
THAT THIS HAD TO BE LIVING HEART
TISSUE THAT WAS TRACTED FROM A
LIVE HEART IN ORDER TO GET IT
THERE BY NATURAL MEANS INSTEAD
OF BY, OF COURSE, THE HOST
DISSOLVING INTO IT.
THAT'S STARTING TO GET INTO
PRETTY REASONABLE AND
RESPONSIBLE EVIDENCE THAT
SOMETHING IS GOING ON HERE.
UNLESS YOU ARE GOING TO SAY THAT
FATHER PEZET WENT AROUND AND
KILLED A PERSON TO TAKE A PIECE
OF LIVE HEART TISSUE TO GO AHEAD
AND MANUFACTURE THIS DEAL AND
PUT IT IN HIS TABERNACLE NEXT TO
THE EUCHARISTIC PRESENCE OF
JESUS, NOT.
AND THAT JUST SEEMS TO BE THE
PAYOFF, BEYOND THE PAYOFF.
YOU GOT A GOOD ONE HERE.
>> AND IT REMINDS WHAT HE YOU
SAID IN THE LAST WEEK, ST. PAUL,
WHAT'S THE UPSIDE FOR US TO DO
THIS.
I MEAN, HERE WE ARE, WE'RE GOING
TO PUT OURSELVES UP FOR
RIDICULE, IN THE MODERN WORLD.
LET ME ASK YOU THIS QUESTION.
WE HAVE A COUPLE OF MINUTES
UNTIL WE TAKE OUR NEXT BREAK.
SEEMS LIKE WHAT I HEARD IN
DIFFERENT TIMES IN CHRISTIANITY
AND MIRACLE OF AGE AND SORT OF
ENDED WITH THE CLOSE OF
SCRIPTURE AND THE NEW TESTAMENT
AND THOSE KIND OF THINGS CEASED.
AND YOU ARE GOING TO GET SOME
WHO SAY, WELL, I MIGHT BELIEVE
IN A MIRACLE BUT HOW COME I
DON'T SEE SOMEBODY GROWING AN
ARM OR A FOOT WHO DOESN'T HAVE
AN ARM OR A FOOT.
WHY IS IT ALWAYS THESE THINGS
THAT YOU CAN'T SEE AS CLEARLY.
WHY ISN'T IT SOMETHING SO
OBVIOUS.
WHAT DO YOU SAY TO SOMEBODY LIKE
THAT.
>> FIRST, THE AGE OF MIRACLES
DIDN'T CERTAINLY STOP WITH THE
NEW TESTAMENT OBVIOUSLY.
MINE, IT CONTINUES TODAY AND THE
CHURCH IS EXTREMELY CAREFUL
ABOUT THE MIRACLES EXCEPT WE
HAVE A SCIENTIFIC COMMISSION OF
SEVEN DOCTORS AND SCIENTISTS
THAT NORMALLY EXAMINES ANY
MIRACLE, ESPECIALLY ONE THAT'S
USED FOR THE CANONIZATION LIKE
FULTON J. SHEEN OR THE LOURDES
MEDICAL COMMISSION CERTAINLY
MORE THAN SEVEN DOCTORS OR
SCIENTISTS EXAMINING THESE
THINGS AND THEY ARE VERY CAREFUL
ABOUT WHAT THEY VALIDATE AND
ACCEPT.
SO, I WOULD HAVE TO SAY THAT,
YES, PEOPLE HAVE, I HAVEN'T
HEARD TOO MUCH ABOUT PEOPLE
GROWING AN ARM OR SOMETHING OF
THAT NATURE WHERE YOU HAVE A
MIRACULOUS PRODUCTION OF A NEW
ARM.
HOWEVER, I MEAN, THE REVERSAL OF
CANCER IN CERTAIN CASES LIKE THE
CASE OF ALEXIS CARROLL, COMPLETE
AND REVERSAL OF TUBERCULAR
PERITONITIS AND GOING TO RESULT
IN DEATH AT ANY HOUR AND THE
WOMAN GOES BACK UNDER HER OWN
POWER TO THE TRAIN.
I MEAN, THIS IS SPECTACULAR.
NO REALISTIC WAY TO EXPLAIN IT.
SO MANY EXAMPLES OF BLINDNESS.
LITERALLY, HAVE YOU A PERSON WHO
IS BLIND FROM BIRTH AND HEALED
FROM THEIR BLINDNESS.
AND THIS IS A VERY TYPICAL KIND
OF MIRACLE THAT HAPPENS THROUGH
THE POWER OF THE HOLY SPIRIT IN
THE NAME OF JESUS.
HAPPENS ALSO AT LOURDES.
IN FACT, IT WAS WAS THE SECOND
ONE AND IN FACT, IT WAS THE
SECOND ONE THERE, AND YOU SEE
THE MIRACLES OF LOURDES BECAUSE
BLINDNESS, WE DON'T HAVE A
NATURAL CURE FOR BLINDNESS.
THERE'S NO REVERSAL OF DEAD
TISSUE.
MY RETINAL DOCTOR, MY EYE
DOCTOR, DEAD IS DEAD.
IT DOESN'T COME BACK FROM THE
DEAD.
AND SO, I GOT THE MESSAGE.
AND SCIENTIFIC PEOPLE, SAYING
DEAD TISSUE NOT GOING TO BE A
REVITALIZED INTO LIVE TISSUE YET
PRECISELY THAT'S WHAT HAPPENED
IN THE CASES OF BLINDNESS.
I SAY, THERE'S SPECTACULAR
MIRACLES AND I GUESS, NOT
PREFERRED BY JESUS, THAT'S THE
ONLY EXPLANATION I HAVE.
BUT ALTHOUGH I HAVE HEARD SUCH
MIRACLES OCCURRING IN 15TH, 16TH
CENTURY AND NOT HEARD OF ANY
VALIDATED ONES IN THE 21ST
CENTURY.
>> Doug: BEFORE WE GO TO BREAK,
SOMETIMES IT SEEMS LIKE
EVERYTHING IS DONE WITH A
CERTAIN AMOUNT OF FAITH STILL
NEEDS TO BE INVOLVED TO
APPRECIATE THE MIRACLE.
THAT OUR LORD DOESN'T ALWAYS
MAKE IT SO BLACK AND WHITE THAT
ONE ABSOLUTELY JUST SAYS, WELL,
THERE STILL HAS TO BE SOME LEVEL
OF FAITH AND I'M TRYING TO
REMEMBER, YOU WOULD KNOW THE
SCRIPTURES WHERE OUR LORD TALKS
ABOUT THE FACT THAT THEY
COULDN'T BEFORE ANY WORKS
BECAUSE OF THE LACK OF FAITH OF
THE PEOPLE THERE HAD?
IS THAT RIGHT?
>> Father: YEAH, YEAH.
AND ONE OF THE UNIQUE
CHARACTERISTICS OF JESUS
MIRACLES, HE DEMANDS FAITH ON
THE PART OF THE PERSON WHO IS
REQUESTING IT.
FAITH MEANS TRUST IN HIM AND
TRUST IN THE FATHER WHO HE IS
REPRESENTING ON THIS EARTH
BRINGING THE KINGDOM OF GOD TO
THIS EARTH.
SO, THAT TRUST IS, NO OTHER
MIRACLE WORKER IN THE ANCIENT
PERIOD REQUIRES THIS KIND OF
TRUST.
BUT WHEN IT'S THERE, AND WHEN WE
PUT OUR TRUST IN JESUS, THE
MIRACLE DOES OCCUR.
SO, I LOOKED AT IT FROM THE
OPPOSITE WAY AROUND, TOO.
GOD IS NOT ALWAYS GOING TO GIVE
YOU AN OUT IF YOU DON'T WANT TO
BELIEVE.
SO, FOR EXAMPLE, LIKE, WITH
ALEXIS CARROLL.
HE DIDN'T GO, WOW.
THIS IS COMPLETELY IMPOSSIBLE.
WHAT'S HE DO?
HE CHECKS FOR 10 YEARS TO SEE IF
THERE'S A NATURAL EXPLANATION
HOW A TUBERCULAR PATIENT COULD
BE HEALED LIKE THAT AND GIVING
UP ON IT AND SEEING THE BLIND
CHILD RESTORED TO SITE WHERE THE
TISSUE WENT FROM DEAD TISSUE TO
LIVE TISSUE.
I MEAN, THAT DOES IT.
SO, FINALLY.
HE IS OPEN AT THAT POINT TO, YOU
KNOW, ALREADY, IN FACT, RIGHT IN
BETWEEN THAT IN BETWEEN PERIOD,
THE LADY WHO GOT THE CURE AND
BECAME A SISTER OF CHARITY AND
LIVED A VERY HARD AND RIGOROUS
LIFE.
SHE DIED IN 1937.
AND I'M CONVINCED THAT SHE GAVE
ALEXIS CARROLL ANOTHER
MINI-MIRACLE.
BASICALLY, HE FOUND A PRIEST WHO
COULD REALLY BELIEVE IN.
AND OF COURSE, YOU KNOW, FOR
WHATEVER REASON, PRIESTS AD
SCIENTIFIC BACKGROUND AND ALEXIS
CARROLL, THEY GOT ALONG JUST
GREAT.
AND WHEN THEY STARTED GETTING
ALONG, HE WAS OPEN AND HE BEGAN
TO SEE THE PRIEST BEGAN TO SAY,
HEY, THERE'S MORE TO LIFE THAN
SCIENCE, RIGHT?
THERE'S A COULD SAY MILK
STRUGGLE BETWEEN DARKNESS,
LIGHT, GOOD AND EVIL, BETWEEN
GOD AND THE DEVIL.
AND OF COURSE, ALEXIS CARROLL IS
FINALLY BEGINNING TO ALLOW A
KIND OF SPIRITUAL REALITY TO
COME INTO HIS LIFE.
AND AT WHICH POINT, I DON'T
THINK I HAVE A DIARY OF THIS FOR
SURE.
BUT OF COURSE, I THINK HIS OWN
DARKNESS BECOMES SO APPARENT TO
HIM THAT AT THAT JUNCTURE, HE
DECIDES TO GO AHEAD AND SEEK,
YOU KNOW, THE CHURCH ITSELF AND
HE DOES BECOME A CATHOLIC.
AND THEN, OF COURSE, HE WRITES
THE BOOK, THE VOYAGE TO LOURDES
WHICH IS REALLY HIS OWN FAITH
VOYAGE TOWARD THE LORD
>> Doug: OKAY.
WE'RE GOING TO TAKE A BREAK.
WE HAVE A FEW MINUTES LEFT ON
THE SHOW AND TALKING TO FATHER
ROBERT SPITZER.
AND YOU KNOW, THIS IS AVAILABLE
THROUGH THE EWTN RELIGIOUS
CATALOG AND AGAIN, THE BOOK, GOD
SO LOVED THE WORLD.
MUCH MORE AHEAD RIGHT HERE ON
FATHER SPITZER'S UNIVERSE.
STAY WITH US.
♪
♪
>> Doug: WELCOME BACK
TO FR. SPITZER'S UNIVERSE.
AND DON'T FORGET ALL THOSE
WONDERFUL BOOKS
THAT ARE AVAILABLE THROUGH
THE EWTN RELIGIOUS CATALOGUE.
MOTHER ANGELICA'S BOOK OF COURSE
"ANSWERS, NOT PROMISES".
AND THERE'S A WHOLE LITANY
OF FATHER'S BOOKS
INCLUDING GOD SO LOVED THE WORLD
THAT WE MENTIONED
A LITTLE BIT EARLIER
AND A WHOLE LISTING
OF OTHER BOOKS
THAT HE'S GOING
TO MENTION TO US
WHEN WE GO TO HIM
BECAUSE HE'S GOT A COUPLE
THAT HE THINKS ARE
QUITE RELEVANT
TO WHAT WE ARE TALKING
ABOUT HERE.
NOT THAT THAT WILL BE A MIRACLE.
IT WILL BE A MIRACLE
IF WE CONTINUE THIS SHOW.
SO, FATHER, HOW ARE YOU DOING
AS WE CONTINUE FROM OUR
WEST COAST FEED.
LET ME ASK YOU, FATHER, ABOUT
THE WHOLE IDEA OF MIRACLES.
HAVE YOU EVER SEEN ONE YOURSELF?
>> Father: YES.
ONE ACTUALLY VERY, VERY
RECENTLY.
I HAVE A VERY GOOD FRIEND.
LET'S JUST CALL HIM MIKE.
HE WAS UP AT THE NAPA INSTITUTE.
AND THEY HAD BROUGHT A SHAWL
THAT HAD BEEN TOUCHED AND BEEN
LAID WITH OUR LADY OF
GUADELUPE'S PICTURE IN MEXICO.
THESE BROTHERS CAME UP, BROUGHT
THE SHAWL UP AND WERE PUTTING
THE SHAWL OVER PEOPLE AND
PRAYING FOR HEALING.
MIKE HAD FOURTH STAGE CANCER.
AND HE HAD NOT REALLY TOLD
ANYBODY EXCEPT FOR THESE
BROTHERS WHO CAME OVER WITH THE
SHAWL.
THEY PLACED THE SHAWL ON TOP OF
HIM.
AND OF COURSE, THEY PRAYED OVER
HIM.
HE LEFT THE NAPA INSTITUTE.
THIS IS TWO YEARS AGO.
AND OF COURSE, WITHIN ABOUT A
MONTH, HE GOES TO HIS DOCTORS
FOR A CHECKUP, EXPECTING THAT,
WELL, HOPEFULLY SOMETHING
HAPPENED.
AND HIS CANCER WENT THROUGH
IMMEDIATE REMEDIATION.
I MEAN, LITERALLY, IT TURNED
AROUND.
AND THE CANCEROUS TUMOR WAS
REDUCED PRACTICALLY TO NOTHING.
OF COURSE, HIS DOCTORS WERE
COMPLETELY STUPEFIED BY THIS
TURN OF EVENTS.
AND MIKE CAME BACK AND TESTIFIED
AT THE NAPA INSTITUTE THE NEXT
YEAR, TO THE WHOLE MIRACLE THAT
HAD TAKEN PLACE, THE PREVIOUS
YEAR.
AND IT WAS REALLY KIND OF
SPECTACULAR.
THIS GUY IS A GOOD FRIEND OF
MINE AND THANK GOD HE'S STILL
ALIVE, WELL, AND, YEAH, VERY,
VERY WONDERFUL MIRACLE.
>> AND HOW WOULD YOU SAY,
BESIDES THE PHYSICALITY OF IT,
HOW DID IT IMPACT YOUR LIFE AND
HIS LIFE ONCE THAT HAPPENED?
>> Father: WELL, I THINK THAT,
YOU KNOW, I BELIEVE HONESTLY,
THERE'S SO MANY INDICATION OF
GOD'S PRESENCE IN MY LIFE.
AND SO MANY INDICATIONS OF
JESUS' MIRACLES IN HISTORY AND
SO MANY INDICATIONS OF MIRACLES
ALREADY IN THE SHROUD OF TURIN.
I JUST HAVE TO TELL YOU, THIS IS
NOT A SHOCKER THAT IT HAPPENED
AND WHAT WAS THE SHOCKER WAS
THAT IT HAPPENED TO MY FRIEND
MIKE.
AND I WAS GLAD THAT IT DID.
AND AGAIN, YOU KNOW, FOR HIM, I
THINK THAT GOD IS PRESENT IN MY
LIFE AND NOT ONLY IS GOD PRESENT
AND EXISTING, BUT GOD CARES
ABOUT ME AND I MUST HAVE SOME
ARE SORT OF MISSION LEFT TO DO
THAT HE THOUGHT ME WORTHY OF
HAVING SOME SORT OF INTERVENTION
TO DO WHAT I'M DOING AND KEEP ME
ALIVE TO DO MORE OF WHAT I AM
DOING.
SO I THINK IT'S, YOU KNOW, THOSE
THAT SEE MIRACLES HAPPEN GO ON
TO DO TRULY SIGNIFICANT THINGS.
THE LADY WHO HAD THE TUBERCULAR,
SHE BECAME A SISTER OF CHARITY.
AND WE KNOW FATIMA, SISTER
LUCIA.
AND WE KNOW OF SAINT BERNADETTE
AT LOURDES AND SO FORTH.
SPECTACULAR KINDS OF THINGS THAT
DO HAPPEN AND PEOPLE ARE SO
HIGHLY IMPACTED AND BY THE
MIRACLES IN THEIR LIFE.
AND IN THE FAITH LIVES OF THEIR
FAMILY, IT'S AMAZING.
>> AND HERE'S A QUESTION THAT
TIES INTO THAT WHOLE IDEA OF
EXPERIENCING OF BEING HEALED AND
HOW IT EXPECTS YOUR CATHOLIC
FAITH.
>> Father: YOU KNOW, DIANA, I
JUST DON'T THINK THE LORD WORKS
THAT WAY.
I HONESTLY DON'T THINK THAT HE
CAUSES ANY KIND OF PAIN TO
HAPPEN IN KIND OF A RETRIBUTION
FOR YOU NOT ATTENDING TO HIS
CALL.
AND THE MIRACULOUS CURES THAT
YOU HAVE, GOD LEAVES YOU FREE TO
CHOOSE.
HE'S NOT GOING TO FORCE YOU TO
CHOOSE.
NOT PUSHING YOU TO CHOOSE.
NOT GOING TO MAKE YOU CHOOSE TO
COME TO THE CATHOLIC CHURCH AND
KIND OF MAKING A HARDSHIP THAT
YOU COULD GET ALLEVIATE HAD.
HE JUST DOESN'T OPERATE THAT
WAY.
GOD ALWAYS OPERATES TOWARDS
FREEDOM.
HE WANTS YOU TO FREELY BE WITH
YOU, CHOOSE TO FREELY BE WITH
HIM.
USE THOSE SUPERNATURAL
GROUNDINGS THAT YOU HAVE IN
THESE TWO MIRACULOUS CURES.
AND YOU KNOW, I SAY, THERE'S A
CALL THERE THAT HE'S WAITING FOR
YOU TO MOVE TOWARD COMING INTO
THE CHURCH.
AND I KNOW THERE'S A GREAT DEAL
OF NERVOUSNESS BUT IT COULD MEAN
A CHANGE WITH RESPECT TO YOUR
FAMILY OR CHILDREN OR SOMETHING
OF THAT NATURE.
BUT I JUST SAY, BOY, IT SURE
FEELS GOOD WHEN YOU TAKE THE
LEAP AND JUST DO IT.
FIND A PRIEST OR A PARISH OR
WHERE YOU ARE REALLY AT HOME AND
PART OF THE RCIA.
DON'T DO IT IN ORDER TO GET
HEALED AND IF GOD STARTS
TOUCHING YOUR LIFE WITH THE HOLY
EUCHARIST, GOD TOUCHES YOUR
LIVES THROUGH THE HOLY SPIRIT,
YOU ARE GOING TO EXPERIENCE A
WHOLE NEW WAY OF LIFE YOU ARE
GOING TO BE TAKEN INTO DIVINE
PROVIDENCE AND INSPIRATION AND
MAYBE YOUR HEALTH DON'T IMPROVE.
BUT IT'S A MOVE OUT OF THE
DARKNESS INTO THE LIGHT AND
SOMETIMES, YOU KNOW, WE FEEL
LIKE WE'RE SO ALONE IN A COSMIC
SCIENCE.
WE'RE SO ALIENATED IN A COSMIC
SENSE AND SO EMPTY, IN A COSMIC
SENSE.
AND WHEN WE MAKE THAT MOVE
TOWARD THE LORD, TOWARD COMING
INTO A CHURCH, IT'S NOT JUST
PSYCHOSOMATIC, A GREAT, STARTS
COMING INTO YOUR LIFE WHERE YOU
GET THAT EMPTINESS FILLED IN AND
THAT LONELINESS STARTS BEING
OVERCOME AND THAT DARKNESS
STARTS BEING OVERCOME WITH A
SENSE OF COMFORT AND LIGHT AND
SENSE OF THESE LITTLE PANIC
ATTACKS, EMPTY ATTACKS, THEY
START BEING OVERCOME AS WE
COOPERATE WITH THE LIGHT.
SO, IN A SENSE, THEN, YOU ARE
GOING TO GET A SPIRITUAL HEALING
AND NOT NECESSARILY ANOTHER
PHYSICAL HEALING.
YOU MAY GET ONE BUT YOU MAY NOT
GET ONE.
BUT REMEMBER, THE LORD ONLY
OPERATES THROUGH FREEDOM AND THE
GIFT THAT YOU WILL BE GIVEN AT
THE END OF THE DAY IS SPIRITUAL
FREEDOM, SPIRITUAL HEALING AND
YOU ARE GIVEN A WAY OUT OF THE
DARKNESS INTO THE LIGHT.
AND OF COURSE, IN MY OWN LIFE,
YOU KNOW, THAT ABILITY TO JUST
SAY MY PRAYER, DEAR LORD, PUSH
BACK THE FOREBODING.
DEAR LORD, I PLACE ALL MY TRUST
IN YOU.
LORD, MAKE SOME GOOD COME OUT OF
WHATEVER HARM I MIGHT HAVE
CAUSED.
ALL OF THESE THINGS ARE
ABSOLUTELY TERRIFIC SPIRITUAL
BLESSINGS THAT YOU ARE GOING TO
BE GIVEN.
NOT TO MENTION DIVINE PROTECTION
AND DIVINE GUIDANCE AND DIVINE
INSPIRATION.
IT'S A WHOLE NEW WAY OF LIFE.
IT'S WORTH IT IN ITSELF AND YOU
COME CLOSER TO THE GOD WHO LOVES
YOU.
>> NEXT WEEK, WE'RE GOING TO BE
TALKING ABOUT SUFFERING ON THE
PROGRAM AND TALKING ABOUT THE
SITUATION IN THE MIRACLE AND
TAUCHED ON IT IN OTHER SHOWS.
LET ME ASK YOU THIS.
DO YOU PRAY FOR A MIRACLE ON A
PRETTY REGULAR BASIS.
AND DO YOU PRAY FOR SOMEBODY TO
BE HEALED?
SHOULD SOMEBODY DO THAT
>> Father: YEAH.
YEAH.
ABSOLUTELY SOMEBODY SHOULD END
UP, JESUS DID IT HIMSELF.
HERE HE IS, IN THE AGONY IN THE
GARDEN AND LITERALLY OF
CONTEMPLATING WHAT HAPPENS, HE
TURNS TO HIS FATHER AND SAYS,
FATHER, LET THIS CUP BE TAKEN
FROM ME.
AND THE CUP IS THE CUP OF
SUFFERING.
LET THIS CUP OF SUFFERING BE
TAKEN FROM ME, BUT IF NOT, IF
IT'S NOT YOUR WILL, THEN YOUR
WILL BE DONE.
BUT ULTIMATELY, YOUR WILL BE
DONE.
SO, THE KEY THING IS, YES.
OF COURSE, PRAY FOR A MIRACLE.
DO I PRAY FOR A MIRACLE.
ABSOLUTELY.
I WANT MY EYES TO BE HEALED.
BUT I WANT MY EYES TO BE HEALED
IN A WAY NOT TO BE UNDERMINED
THE VERY GOOD SPIRITUAL
BLESSINGS THAT GOD IS GIVING ME
THROUGH THIS DIFFICULTY WITH MY
EYES.
BUT I DO, I PRAY, I SAY, LORD,
IF IT BE YOUR WILL, JUST LIKE
JESUS IN THE GARDEN, IF IT'S
YOUR WILL, TAKE THE CUP OF
SUFFERING FROM ME.
BUT IF NOT, I WANT THE BLESSINGS
TO CONTINUE.
THE SPIRITUAL BLESSINGS TO
CONTINUE 2 CORINTHIANS 12, ST.
PAUL, THORNS THAT KEEP
DELIVERING TO ST. PAUL IN THE
FLESH KEEPING HIM FROM GETTING
PROUD AND MAKES THE STRENGTH OF
CHRIST WITHIN HIM.
MORE THAN ENOUGH.
OF COURSE, I LOVE MY AUTONOMY
BUT I LOVE MUCH MORE NOW THAT I
AM RELYING ON CHRIST AND MY
NARCISSISTIC TENDENCIES HAVE
BEEN TEMPERED.
AND NOW, INCLUDING THE EMPATHY
THAT I HAVE AND THE HUMILITY
THAT I HAVE BEFORE OTHER PEOPLE
WHO REALLY DO HELP ME AND WHOSE
HELP I REALLY DO NEED.
SO, THAT'S MY PRAYER.
MY PRAYER IS, LORD, GIVE ME THIS
MIRACLE.
BUT IF THERE'S A LOT MORE
SPIRITUAL BLESSINGS THAT YOU
NEED TO GIVE ME THROUGH THIS
MALADY, THEN KEEP GIVING THEM TO
ME BECAUSE I PREFER THAT TO THE
MIRACLE.
AND OF COURSE, IF IT'S TIME OR
IF IT'S EVER TIME, YOU KNOW, OH,
I WOULD APPRECIATE ONE.
EVEN IF I HAVE TO HAVE A RETINOL
PROSTHESIS
>> Doug: RIGHT, A MIRACLE OF
MODERN SCIENCE, YOU NEVER KNOW.
THANK YOU, FATHER SPITZER.
WE'LL SEE YOU NEXT WEEK WHEN WE
TALK ABOUT SUFFERING.
I WANT TO INVITE EVERYBODY TO
TALK CHECKING OUT ewtnRC.com.
AND SEEING THE BOOKS THAT FATHER
SPITZER HAS.
AND HERE IS ARE HIS BOOKS.
DON'T FORGET, GO TO
ewtnRC.com.
AND THEN YOU CAN GO TO
magiscenter.com.
SEND US EMAILS, FACEBOOK,
TWITTER, AND WE'LL ANSWER YOUR
QUESTIONS ESPECIALLY ABOUT
SUFFERING.
SO, I'M DOUG KECK.
THANK YOU FOR JOINING US.
AND NEXT WEEK, WE'LL TALK ABOUT
WHY, WHY DOES GOD ALLOW
SUFFERING.
THANK YOU SO MUCH.
UNTIL NEXT TIME.
♪
