[MUSIC PLAYING]
ELENA FAVILLI: Please help
me give a warm welcome
to Francesca Cavallo.
FRANCESCA CAVALLO:
It's great to be here.
Thank you for having me.
ELENA FAVILLI: So
tell us about yourself
and how the idea of
this book came along.
FRANCESCA CAVALLO:
Well, we always
say that this book came
from a place of anger.
Elena and I moved from Italy
to Silicon Valley in 2012
to start our children's media
company called Timbuktu Labs.
And we did the whole drill.
We looked for investors.
We launched a beta version
of our magazine, which
was called "Timbuktu"
magazine, and we
got accepted into 500 Startups.
And we raised a first
seed round of capital.
And then the moment
came where we
needed to access more
funding to scale the company.
And that was a very telling
moment in our personal story
as professionals because we
started seeing consistently
the same kind of
feedback, that--
and I'm reporting
literal comments
that we received when
doing fundraising--
that two girls alone
could not pull it off,
that this was a nice
lifestyle project,
but it wasn't going
to be a big thing,
that people, in any case,
were only interested in buying
Disney content, that they
would never buy our content.
And the feedback that
we got was consistently
geared towards telling us we
don't think what you're onto
is particularly interesting.
But if you did a platform for
user generated content, then
maybe we could revisit
the conversation.
And we were explaining
that user generated
content was not particularly--
look where it led us.
And that was not our
main asset as founders,
that we were very good at
creating outstanding content
even with limited resources.
But the conversation
wasn't going anywhere.
And when you receive the
same feedback over and over
and over again, you start
questioning, you know,
maybe I'm wrong.
Maybe they're right and I
don't have what it takes.
My vision is not
going to happen.
But there was something in the
form this feedback was given
to us that didn't
convince us that it
was coming from a good place.
So we said, OK, let's
leave Silicon Valley here.
This is probably not the right
place for us at this time.
Let's give Los Angeles a shot.
We didn't want to
leave California.
We really love it.
We really love California.
But we wanted to try again.
At that point we had
developed 12 mobile apps,
but we had reached
the point where
we needed either more capital
or we needed to shut it down.
And we moved to Los
Angeles, and for one year
we went into freezing mode.
It was just Elena and myself.
We didn't have any
other employees anymore.
We rented a small one bedroom
apartment here in Venice.
We worked out of our kitchen.
And I wrote horror
stories for a company that
was doing text-based fiction.
And we did some consulting work.
And we got to the point where we
had $8,000 in our bank account.
And we said, OK, we had
this idea of a newsletter
for parents who wanted to
discuss positive female role
models with their kids
at the dinner table.
And the subtitle
of the newsletter
was "Good Night Stories
for Rebel Girls".
We had an email list by that
point of a few thousand users
from the apps.
But we wanted to
start it from scratch
because we wanted it to be
very focused on people that
were passionate about
female empowerment,
not parenting in general,
not apps and education, just
female empowerment.
So we started from
scratch from a newsletter
of 25 people selected
from our friends,
from those friends who we
felt we had a connection
with on that theme.
And this newsletter
started growing.
We did a couple of
things to attract
even more people to sign up.
But mostly it was growing
because people were
forwarding it to each other.
And we got to the point where
we got about 4,000 subscribers.
I like to speak about
numbers, the actual numbers,
because when you
don't say the numbers,
you can think, oh, they already
had so many subscribers,
or when they launched
they had probably 100,000.
No, when we launched the
Kickstarter campaign,
we had 4,000 subscribers.
And at one point we said, OK,
we think this newsletter could
become a book.
And this is how
the book should be.
So we put together a Google
doc with a [INAUDIBLE] link
at the end explaining what
the book would be about.
And it was just text,
like a book proposal.
But instead of sending
it to a publisher,
we sent it to the subscribers
of our newsletter.
And 5% of that list gave us
money based on a Google Doc.
They gave us $35 each.
So we were like, maybe we're
onto something, because this
is a pretty ugly Google Doc.
So if 5% of people
are converting,
then maybe we're onto something.
And we had been looking at the
crowd funding space for a while
because we were
interested in giving
the finger to the
investors who had said no.
And that seemed like a
pretty cool way to do it,
so we had been studying
the platform a little bit.
And when this idea
came about, we
were like, this could be the
perfect idea for Kickstarter.
So we put together the campaign.
And because it was
just the two of us,
we basically had to put
together a domino of things
that needed to happen the
moment that we hit the launch
button on Kickstarter.
So we did all the
things that we could.
We used Boomerang to send the
emails to all the journalists
that we had selected
the day of the launch.
I remember that the
day of the launch, we
had a schedule that was
starting at 5:00 AM.
And it was divided in
lots of 15 minutes each.
And so we had all
of these actions
that we had to do
in order to pretend
that there was a team behind
this thing, a big team.
And so we launched the
campaign with a funding goal
of $40,000, which we raised
in the first 30 hours.
And at the end of the
campaign, after 29 days,
the book had raised
$675,000 from 13,000 backers
from 75 countries, becoming
the most crowdfunded publishing
project in history,
record which held
until "Good Night Stories for
Rebel Girls 2" came about.
And when we launched "Good Night
Stories for Rebel Girls 2",
we raised $100,000,
which was the funding
goal, in the first three hours.
And we had developed before
this book 12 mobile apps
and we had published six
picture books before this,
just so you know what an
overnight success this was.
ELENA FAVILLI: That's
an amazing story.
I'm going to sneak
in a personal story.
I had met Francesca
at a party right
before they were launching
the Kickstarter campaign.
And I remember receiving
a personal email from her,
or a Facebook
message or something
like that, like just soliciting
the Kickstarter funding,
and it seemed so
well-organized to me.
So happy to hear that it
was such a great success.
In fact, these books
are a great success.
The issues are not new, though.
I mean, female
empowerment and kind
of highlighting
the story of women
who did great things
is something that
could have been done long ago.
But this book is
really successful.
And what is this book doing
differently with respect
to the previous--
not too many, but there were
previous attempts of telling
stories of important women.
FRANCESCA CAVALLO: Yeah.
Yes.
First of all, as you
were rightly saying,
there are not so many books that
tackle specifically nonfiction.
So there are a few books
with female protagonists
in the fiction world.
But there's not
so many nonfiction
talking these issues,
especially for this target.
And so this is for
sure one factor.
When we started
working on this book,
I was so sad when
I thought about--
Elena and I thought about our
childhood and about the books
that we liked as children.
And we realized that none of
them had a female protagonist.
And not just that, that
throughout elementary school
and then middle school and then
high school and then college--
throughout high
school, for example,
I didn't study a
single female writer.
If you look at
history and we think
about female figures in history,
or in historical movies,
they're mainly nurses.
They're catering to the needs of
the men who are making history.
And we felt so outraged
by that notion,
and we wondered what would
we be if we had studied
the women who had made history?
Is it possible that we would
have been more confident when
facing so many no's, and
that we would have second
guessed ourselves less?
Would it be possible
that we wouldn't
have taken so much
time to understand
that the problem wasn't us,
but it was the people that
were giving us feedback?
And we thought that if you
bring this personal issue
on a global scale, that
becomes incredibly powerful,
and that learning
the story of women,
real women that before
us have made history,
could be incredibly powerful.
So part of it was when we
got started with "Timbuktu"--
our very first product was
"Timbuktu" magazine, which
was a news magazine for kids.
So we've always had this
passion for exposing kids
to what's happening around them
in the real world in a new way,
in a way that could
spark their imagination.
And this project has always
been political for us.
We've always thought
that people like
to think and to say that kids
are the citizens of the future,
and we've always looked at kids
as the citizens of the present.
You can't consider a person
a citizen when they turn 18
and they start to vote, and
then expect that all of a sudden
they are passionate about
the world that surround them
and that are involved and
engaged in their community.
You have to start
early, and you have
to do all you can to make
them passionate about what
is happening around
them, and not push them
towards these worlds
of fantasy that
are beautiful and important.
But it's not the only
thing that's there.
Reality is fascinating,
and the impact
that your daily work
can have in real life
is one of the things that
make life worth living.
So I think this
is what we wanted
to convey through this book.
So even though there
are other anthologies
of notable women in history--
there have been many
more after our book--
there is a glue that holds
these stories together,
which is this very
deep desire of having
an impact in the world and
having a set of values,
this glue that that is around
these stories that holds it
together, that I
think gets to the kids
and to their parents in a
way that is more powerful
than other books.
ELENA FAVILLI: One
other thing that I
appreciate a lot about the
book is the direct style.
It's not over dramatizing.
But it's also not shying away
to showcase even some figures
that were controversial.
One that, for example, hit me
because it kind of reminded
of my childhood, was
Margaret Thatcher,
a very controversial figure.
Still, she's
featured in the book.
And I loved that
there was a quote
from each woman on each story.
Was this a result of
some stylistic journey,
or did it just come that way?
Or what was the journey
that brought you there?
FRANCESCA CAVALLO: There is this
very interesting piece of data.
In Italy, where I'm from, if
you hadn't guessed, only 3%
of the streets and public
squares are named after women.
And of these 3%, 97% are saints.
So basically, to be
remembered in our country,
you literally need
to be a saint.
So one of the things
that we didn't
want to do when we wrote
this book was to create
a book of saints because--
and aside from the
religious aspect of it,
there are not religious
figures in the book.
You can create a
book of saints even
if you adopt the liberal lens.
You can say a woman needs to
be perfect by my standards
in order to be
featured in this book.
And of course, my standards
are not universal.
So we wanted to make sure that
we featured a variety of women,
and that we did not shy away
from featuring women who
were controversial
and who had been
controversial during their
life because one of the most
dangerous lessons that
we as women are taught
is that we always
need to be likable.
And that is one of
the biggest detriment
to develop leadership
skills when you are a girl,
and also when you grow up.
If you're a good
leader, you have
to accept that at times
you will not be likeable.
You will not be liked.
And if you are not
able to deal with that,
you are going to
be a shitty leader.
That's simply the truth,
because you are there
because you are making difficult
choices that other people would
not be able to
make in your place.
If you're not able to
go through that path,
that is just not
going to happen.
So we really cared to
feature also figures that--
I mean, personally
and politically, I'm
not aligned at all
with Margaret Thatcher.
But still she was one of
the most influential figures
in politics in
Europe in her time.
And she came from a family,
her father was a butcher.
So in the highly difficult
system, class system,
that Great Britain has,
she was able to become
prime minister, which is a
quite impressive feat that
needed to be celebrated.
And the way we thought
about these stories
is also that each story
celebrates particularly one
trait.
And in her case, her story
was the most iconic story
to celebrate a woman
that was able to be
controversial to follow
what she thought was right.
ELENA FAVILLI: So you
started mentioning
how do you select
this, the stories.
So I wanted to know a
little bit more about that.
You're saying that you're
trying to celebrate
one trait for each woman.
What are the criteria?
FRANCESCA CAVALLO: There are a
few criteria that we adopted.
One of them was that
we wanted every girl
to find a piece of
her story in the book.
So we really cared
from the very beginning
to feature women from
all over the world,
and from different ages.
And so the book needed
to reflect the diversity
that women appear in the world.
If you look at cartoons,
this is not novel.
We've seen it on Facebook
one million times.
But usually the way women
are portrayed, also,
in animation is much more
narrow than the way male
characters are portrayed.
So we are led, from
a very young age,
to believe that there is only
one acceptable way of appear
as a woman, which is certainly
not the case because all of us
are different in this room.
And it was important
for us to show
that women can be very
different from each other
and very different
from the characters
that we see normally on
TV and on the big screen.
And another criteria
was that we wanted
to feature women from the
past and for the present.
We didn't want this
to be just a history
book that was just in
the past because it
mattered to us that--
one of our goals was to help
people see the rebel girls
around them, and to
learn how to celebrate
the women and the
girls in their life,
and to learn that incredible
women are our sisters.
They are our work colleagues.
They are our mentors.
They are our
teachers, our parents.
And it was very
important to do that
by mixing past and
present figures.
And of course, we
wanted to show women
from the past to show that
women have always been there.
We haven't looked at them,
we haven't celebrated them,
we haven't recorded them
in our history books.
But they've always been there.
And the other
criteria was that we
wanted to feature women
with all sorts of careers
to show girls that they
can be anything, really.
And we were very
proud when every day
we received letters
from our readers
from all over the world.
And a few months ago,
we received this letter.
They had a career day
in elementary school.
And this girl said
that she wanted
to be a surgeon
when she grew up.
And one of her classmates
said, you are a girl,
you can't be a surgeon.
And she didn't take offense.
She was like, you didn't
read "The Good Night Stories
for Rebel Girls", which is
a reaction that hoped that I
had had during those meetings.
It's like, you don't know
what you're talking about.
Don't waste my time.
ELENA FAVILLI: That's
an awesome story.
So since you're touching
on the reaction of men
or in general, other gender.
So making better for us
women, for all the genders
should not be all on the
under-represented gender.
How about titling the next book
"Good Night Stories for Boys
and Girls About Rebel Girls"?
FRANCESCA CAVALLO: That
would be an awful title.
I don't think it
would sell anything.
Of course, there
is a provocation
in calling the book "Good
Night Stories for Rebel GIrls",
and it's intentional.
But growing up-- and
I'm sure all of us
have read plenty of books
where we were not in the title.
We were not even
inside the book.
So isn't it ironic that--
I mean, this is the
feedback that we
received of people
that are offended
that boys are not in the title.
Isn't it educational to be
passionate about something
when you're not in the title?
This is our point.
When we are asked, are you going
to do a "Good Night Stories
for Rebel Boys", we
say no, because this
is the book for boys.
It's very important to
learn that you cannot be
the protagonist in a situation
and still be involved and still
be supportive.
It's been from the
beginning of history
that we've been supportive
of stories where
we were not protagonists.
So we are not
asking for the moon.
And this is one book.
Insert curse word in the middle.
ELENA FAVILLI: How about
"Good Night Stories
About Rebel Girls"?
FRANCESCA CAVALLO: But this book
is not just about rebel girls.
This book is about courage.
It's about life.
It's not just about girls.
As women, we've been--
you know, female writers
have always struggled
with this and we still do.
When men write a book
about a love story,
they are writing about
love and about life.
When a woman writes
about a love story,
they are writing about their
own personal experience,
and they are writing something
that's very niche and very--
this is nonsense.
I mean, why are we denying
women the possibility
to reflect and to make
assumptions about what
life is also for men?
We've lived all our life
with men making assumptions
of what life is for women.
So it's quite time we start
talking about the issues
that we care about, whether
they are part of our daily life
or whether it's stuff that
we're simply thinking about,
without having to
justify ourselves
and to hold off because
what if boys get offended.
Honestly, who cares?
ELENA FAVILLI: So the
question wasn't too much
about boys getting offended, but
about making sure that actually
boys would read it.
It's a big step to
convince somebody
that this is a book also
for boys, which I completely
agree with.
So what is the path
that we have to take
to make sure that we
have this [INAUDIBLE]
with the other gender?
And what is the
path that we have
to take to make sure that boys
actually do read the book?
FRANCESCA CAVALLO:
Well, first of all,
I want to say that many boys
are already reading this book.
So there are so many
parents around the world
that are buying this book
also when they just have boys.
And they love it, because
this is more of a thing
that grownups think,
that they are not
going to be into it because
it's called "Good Night
Stories for Rebel
Girls", but actually this
is a book of great stories.
So when they are
exposed to it, they just
love the stories just as
much as we love the stories
when we grew up.
So that's a very
important thing.
There is something that
happened to me last year.
I have a friend who is very
passionate about gender
equality, and she
had a daughter.
And so when I bought
clothes for her daughter,
I shopped in the
boy aisle as much
as I did in the girl aisle.
And one year ago she had a boy.
So there I was, a gay
shopping for her son.
And I'm ashamed to say I
couldn't bring myself to shop
for a boy from the girls aisle.
This is a problem
because it means
that as much as I like to think
that I'm awake to these issues,
I still have so much
internalized misogyny
that I felt it would
diminish the value of her boy
if I shopped for him
in the girls aisle.
This is the problem
that we are talking
about when we are
afraid of buying
a book like this for boys.
And there is no easy solution.
We need to realize that this is
the world that we grew up in,
and that this is part
of what we think when
we think about
ourselves and when
we think about our daughters.
And we have to hold ourselves
to a higher standard.
It's going to be uncomfortable
because oppression
and the patriarchy is so deep,
it runs so deep in our veins
that it's going to be
uncomfortable to get over
all these automatic
assumptions that we make
and all these automatic
choices that we make every day.
But this is the
battle of our time,
and we need to be to hold
ourselves responsible
and to have the courage
to do what's uncomfortable
because freedom is at stake.
ELENA FAVILLI: Thank you.
If you would have
had a book like this
to read when you
were a child, how
do you think it would
have changed your life?
FRANCESCA CAVALLO:
I hope it would
have made me shop
in the girl aisle
without thinking about it.
ELENA FAVILLI: That's good.
This book is amazing.
It's been translated
in so many languages,
so there's demand for
it in the entire world.
Is it just the result of demand,
or you had vision behind this?
Did you want to translate it
in all the language upfront,
or did you get requests for it?
How did that happen?
FRANCESCA CAVALLO:
Well, it's not
like you want to
translate something
in 45 languages a
book, and you do it.
ELENA FAVILLI: Right, of course.
FRANCESCA CAVALLO: To be
honest, in our wildest dreams--
that are pretty wild,
I can assure you--
we would have never imagined to
have, between the both of them,
we sold almost three million
copies worldwide to date.
[APPLAUSE]
So we would have never
imagined that the book was
going to be so successful.
And the thought of families
around the world ending
their day reading these stories
in so many different languages
really moves me.
It's something that--
I don't know, it's so powerful
that we could have never
imagined something like this.
ELENA FAVILLI: So you told
us one story about a girl who
had read your book.
Do you have any other
interesting stories?
I'm sure people reach
out to you all the time.
FRANCESCA CAVALLO: Yes, they
do, and it's interesting
how the range of people that are
reading this book is so wide.
Another letters that really
hit me was from a guy--
I think he was in his 20s--
and he was going through rehab.
He was an heroin
addict going through m
and he told us that
he had found strength
in these stories in that path.
So it was very moving
for us because it's
like our readers are giving us
that feedback that these are
not just stories about
girls, because otherwise it
wouldn't happen that so
many people around the world
are identifying
with these people.
But one thing matters
about the fact
that these are all women,
that telling their stories
enables us to speak about
things that have not
been spoken about before.
When you are in the line of
work that you are a writer
and that you work on
stories, many people
like to say that all stories
have been told already.
And this couldn't be
farther from the truth
because there are so
many of our stories that
haven't been told yet.
We haven't heard any of it.
And stories are so important
in shaping a person's identity.
When we think about our
life, we tell ourselves
the story of our life.
We make it into stories.
We divide it, we create causes
and effects and consequences,
and we identify pivotal moments.
But that's just--
I mean, it's not like life.
It's that life can be also seen
as a chain of random events.
And then it's us.
We put order in those stories.
And the fact that women
have been deprived
by the possibility
of being exposed
to the stories of other women
with similar experiences
means that the story that
we are telling ourselves
about our life is lacking.
We have a lot of holes that
we don't know how to fill yet
and that have been filled
with the perspective
that men have on
our stories, even
if they don't have
a clue of what
it's like to go through
this world as a woman.
So we hope that these
stories help girls fill up
those holes with a perspective
that is their own so
that empowering
people, more people,
to own the story of
their life and is
empowering them to choose
what their future is
going to be like.
And this is the
reason why we are
so passionate about
telling these stories
and uncovering new
stories, and tapping
into the huge community of
readers that we now have
and asking them to help us find
new stories because we can't
possibly think
that we can access
all the relevant
stories in the world
just by virtue of being us.
ELENA FAVILLI: I wanted to open
to questions from the public,
if there are any.
That's our microphone.
AUDIENCE: I have a question.
Hi.
Thanks for coming today.
It's been really great
hearing you talk.
My question for you is you
mentioned that you include in
your book women from the
present, which is really
important, as you pointed out.
When you write about them,
how do you figure out
which women to choose?
And are you planning on a volume
three and accepting submissions
for--
not me-- I mean,
obviously Marcia,
but I know a lot
of great women that
deserve to be potentially called
out in this kind of story.
How do you find the people?
FRANCESCA CAVALLO: It's a mix
of historic and journalistic
research.
And also we receive a
constant influx of names.
And what we do is
we write them down.
And then we go through this
list, and we research them.
And we start putting
the ones that
seem to have stories that
we are drawn towards,
we drag them to the top of the
list, and then we start again.
And then we start again.
It's a long process, research.
We always start from research
when working on our books.
And we end up at some point
with a list of roughly 150 women
that we've compiled quite
an extensive research about.
And then we try to
balance the book
so that it has enough
diversity, and also
that we look for stories that
can allow us to touch on themes
that maybe have not
emerged in other stories,
or that allow us to talk about
professions that we haven't
talked about yet in the other
books or in other stories.
And little by little, the
book starts to appear.
AUDIENCE: So do you have to
send the copies to the people
that you're writing about,
since they're actually alive?
FRANCESCA CAVALLO:
We don't have to,
but we like to because of
course, part of our work
is to--
all the people working on
the book-- the researcher,
of course us, the writers, the
editors, the illustrators--
we are all women.
And we like to reach
out to the women
that we write about
because this is also a way
to connect with each other.
We connect with the
artist and the artist
connect with each other.
And so from the very
beginning, we've
seen this book as a platform
to elevate women's talent.
And we're very proud of the
fact that something weird
happened after the first book.
Some people started to
write to us to tell us,
discovered the amazing story
of this woman in your book.
And of course, in
many cases, the story
that they were talking about
was actually in the book.
But there were
also a lot of cases
where they were
telling us I discovered
the story of this
woman in your book,
and we're like, I don't
think we wrote about it.
So at the beginning we
were quite confused.
But then what happened was
that basically the book
was like giving
people the ability
to see stories that
they didn't see before,
to see talent in
people where they
didn't look for talent before.
And this is incredibly powerful.
And we're very, very
proud about that.
So when people write
to us with names,
we always take
note because that's
part of the miracle that is
happening around this book.
AUDIENCE: Thanks for coming
and giving this presentation.
It's really great to
hear directly from you.
My question is are you
working on book number three?
FRANCESCA CAVALLO: We are.
Yes, we are.
I don't know if you
know this, but we also
launched a podcast which has
the same title as the book.
And in that case, each episode
is an extended version of one
of the stories contained
in Book One or Book Two.
And we asked different
women to read
the episodes of the podcast.
We had Poorna Jagannathan
and from "The Night Of".
We had Melinda Gates.
Today we released Freida Kahlo
read by Pamela Adlon of "Better
Things".
We had Allison Mosshart,
the singer of The Kills.
And in that case,
we asked ourselves
what is going to be the
equivalent of the illustrations
in an audio production?
And it was voice, of course.
So it was very important
for us to use the podcast
as a platform to
elevate women's voices
because we are not used
to the female voice.
And when we look at
the impact that this
has on the general population
during elections, for example,
that is very annoying
and dangerous.
So in that case, it's
been very important
for us to feature a
variety of female voices
that tell these stories.
And we're very, very
proud of that, too.
So if you haven't listened
to it, check it out.
AUDIENCE: My question is
sort of following up on that.
You've done two books.
You have another in the work.
You're doing audio books.
What's next?
Is it all just female
empowerment and rebel girls?
Is there some other
area that you're
going to try to shine some
light on and bring attention to?
Are there other
media that you're--
FRANCESCA CAVALLO:
Female empowerment
is a large enough
issue for my life.
I grew up as a liberal woman
in Italy, as I mentioned.
And I always read
liberal newspapers.
And at one point, I realized
that I had spent all my 20s
thinking that all the
important problems were
like in the economy
and health care.
And then when all of
those important problems
would be solved, we could
possibly tackle women's rights.
And for a very long time.
I thought that was true.
Then I was like, how
could I be so blind?
How can I consider this an
issue of secondary importance?
So I think it's very important
that we own the fact that this
is a central part,
and that we do not
vote for people who consider
this like an afterthought.
We are half of the world.
So if half of the world
is being held back,
that is a pretty big problem
for these communities
that we are part of.
Imagine what amazing
things will be
accomplished when
half of the world
will cease to be held back.
[APPLAUSE]
AUDIENCE: I just want to add
to that, that at Google, we
struggle with this all the
time because there's obviously
a lower percentage.
It's not 50% of the engineers
at Google that are female.
That's not even close.
I think it's more like 20%.
And that's something that people
in Google take very seriously,
and they're always
trying to change that.
And the way they
try to change that
is by making sure that we
are open to hiring women
when we're interviewing.
But we're not hiring them
just because they're women.
We're hiring them because
they are able women.
But the problem is that the pool
of women that they come from
is also small because the number
of women who were graduated
from college with a degree
that would help them
in computer science later on
is a small percentage as well.
So the problem comes
earlier in life.
And this is what I've argued
with people for a long time.
You can't just
increase the percentage
of women in
engineering at Google
without fixing the
problem before that,
without fixing it
before they even get
to college, without fixing it
when they're children, when
they're young and they're
trying to figure out
what it is that I want
to do when I grow up.
And this is a perfect solution
to that because this is--
I never had this
problem growing up.
I have three older
sisters and a mom
who are all very,
very strong-willed
and difficult people.
And so when I wanted
to go into computers,
there was never any question,
but I think for a lot of girls,
there is a question.
They're like, I don't know,
is that too masculine?
Is that something
that maybe I shouldn't
be doing because no guy will be
attracted to me because now I
am a nerd?
It's a difficult
problem, and it's
nice to see that you're
addressing that sort of issue
across all these STEM fields,
I imagine, not just STEM,
but anything, right?
Like even literature.
FRANCESCA CAVALLO: Yeah.
And it's also a matter--
I don't believe,
necessarily, in the way we
describe what a scientist is.
So I think that a
lot of girls are
very passionate about science.
But it's just that the
way we look at science,
we don't consider their
way of thinking scientific
unless it meets certain
stereotypes that we
have in our heads.
And that is a way
to discourage girls
from pursuing
scientific careers.
In other words, I
don't necessarily
buy that we need to just
re-skin male scientist
characters with female
bodies, and that
is going to solve the problem.
In children's media
I see a lot of that.
I think it's more of a
matter of reframing what
having a scientific mind is.
I'm sure you all
have experiences.
Well, I don't have a husband.
But I have the experience
of my mother and my father.
And my mom is way more
scientific than my dad
in tackling problems
of everyday life.
But it's just that
we are not used
to recognize a certain structure
in the way of solving problems,
unless it's applied
to computers,
as having a scientific mind.
So for example,
one of the stories,
we met some of the women that
we featured in our books.
And last spring we
were on tour in the UK
and we met Mary Moore,
who is in the second book.
And she's a professional
ballerina and a quantum
physicist.
If you think about
that, normally we
tend, especially in
the United States,
to encourage people to choose
one field and one field only,
and to become the expert of
whatever field you picked.
In her case, she fought
because she loved to dance.
And she was like, I understand
physics better when I dance.
So that's the kind of thing that
can help us attract more women.
And it's not like attracting
women to the STEM fields
as if the STEM fields were a
place that was made for men.
And it's more redefining
what we think about science
and what we think when we think
about having a scientific mind.
That is, I think, solving
the problem at the very root.
AUDIENCE: Thank you so much.
So now that you're
talking about this,
have you ever thought about--
because you are a great
storyteller, and you reframe
things so that normal people
could also see themselves in
the shoes of a great scientist,
or that isn't in the exact
field it's supposed to be in--
have you thought about
creating a template so
that a mom or an aunt, or the
everyday life mom that maybe
won't be able to be captured
in this amazing book
because you're looking for
bigger role models, perhaps--
so that they can
do it on their day
to day, too, so that their
children can be inspired?
So something like a quick
framework, a template, perhaps,
so that they can--
so I have a daughter.
The joke was I have a
daughter and two boys.
But my two boys are
two and four years old
and my daughter is six.
So I'm overcompensating
on girl books.
And so my kids,
my boys, are like,
I don't know anything else.
It's really funny.
I'm like, they don't even know
that it's the other way around
in the real world.
But I was wondering if
there's any chance at all
that you would think
of creating something
so that our sons, or even girls,
could see their moms reflected
there, too.
FRANCESCA CAVALLO: You
mean a platform for user
generated content?
AUDIENCE: I mean, without
having to put it in somewhere.
But at least for them to
tell their own stories
in a way that makes
sense because I
think it's the framework
that is difficult for them
to bring it to life in a way
that makes sense for them.
FRANCESCA CAVALLO: I'm
not particularly drawn
towards platforms.
So I understand.
I mean, you work at Google.
So that's the way you--
yeah.
You want to templatize things.
And I chose a line of work where
I can stay away from templates
as much as possible.
So I would hope that reading
these stories will inspire
your kids when they see
their moms going to work,
because one thing that I
cannot stand when I see movies.
Whenever you see
working moms, it's
always like their kids are
neglected and they are--
I hate that.
And so part of the
reason why we wanted
to celebrate the work
of women in the book
is that we wanted to
offer kids a framework
to read the work
of their mothers
with a different
set of expectations.
And there was
something very touching
that happened during one of
our presentations in Milan.
We were in this
bookstore, and it was
filled to the brim with people.
And so we let the kids
come and sit in the front
so that they could see.
Immediately before the
beginning of the presentation,
one of them opened the
book on the first page,
which is Ada Lovelace.
And he turned to the audience
and said, my mom did this.
He was the son of
the illustrator
who created this portrait.
And to see him standing so
proud of his mother's work
in front of all of the
people was very meaningful.
AUDIENCE: Thank you.
AUDIENCE: Thank you very much.
I relate to a lot of the
stories in my own way,
and I really love it.
And actually I get
this book and give it
to any female friend of
mine that has a daughter now
as just a present.
I think it's the best
present that they can get.
But also, as someone that--
I'm in science and just
climbing up the ladder
and trying very hard--
I always wonder and
who is the rebel?
Am I a rebel?
Or am I normal?
Do we want our girls to think
of themselves, eventually,
that this is the normal,
to be equal to men
and to be getting
the same education,
the same opportunity
should be the norm.
And we are working toward
that to make it normalized,
not giving it the name.
For example, we tend
to name girls bossy
if they are just a good leader,
or they want to be a leader
or they're working on that.
Or we call even people feminist
when feminism is really
believing in equality
of men and women.
And in no other category we
name people that are just
believe in equality a name.
That's just, to me-- is like,
well, isn't the ideal world
that we want to be normal,
the normal means to be equal,
and every part of the
society gets its fair share
of success and progress.
So because you are
working on this,
and this is such a valuable and
progressive work, and every day
you probably meet
so many people,
and so many ideas rush
through you, and so on.
Do you see, in the future,
that this work kind of moves
toward introducing the
education and women in STEM
as normal and not rebel?
Do you know what I'm--
FRANCESCA CAVALLO:
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Sure.
AUDIENCE: Have you
touched that idea?
FRANCESCA CAVALLO:
Yeah, absolutely.
I think that's a great question.
And of course we are
doing all this work
so that in the future,
people will take this book
and be like, why rebel?
The point is that
we're not there yet,
and that for so many
women around the world,
being rebels is
not a matter of--
it's not something
they can choose,
or it's not a matter of
having their tongue pierced.
It's a matter of
survival because we
have so many expectations
and such subtle--
not subtle, but so many
strong, invisible laws
around us that we need to be
rebels in order to survive,
in many cases, and to
thrive, in most cases.
We need to be rebels to leave
an abusive relationship.
We need to be rebels to
choose to go to school when
the Taliban try to
close the school for us.
And if you look at this
from a global perspective,
rebellion is very much needed.
And when you think about rebel
boys, it's like the image
that forms in your mind is just
a very dynamic kind of person,
young man.
When you think
about rebel girls,
at least up until our
book came about, usually
rebel girls don't end up well.
The image that
forms in your head
when you think of a
rebel girl is the image
of a woman that does not have
a bright future ahead of her.
And we wanted to change that,
because to defy society's
expectations is the first step
to gain a freedom that everyone
tries--
not everyone, but most people--
try to deny us every
step of the way.
[APPLAUSE]
ELENA FAVILLI: I want to thank
you very much, Francesca,
for being here with us
today, and for being
so inspiring with your
stories and with your books.
Thanks again.
