♪ [THEME MUSIC] ♪
>>> AND HELLO AND THANKS SO MUCH
FOR JOINING US TODAY, I'M CAROL 
JENKINS, THE PROGRAM IS "BLACK 
AMERICA."
IT'S OUR PLEASURE TO WELCOME DR.
EDDIE GLAUDE JR., CHAIR OF THE 
DEPARTMENT CENTER FOR 
AFRICAN-AMERICAN STUDIES AT
PRINCETON UNIVERSITY.
DR. GLAUDE IS THE AUTHOR OF 
DEMOCRACY IN BLACK: HOW RACE 
STILL ENSLAVES THE AMERICAN 
SOUL.
THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR BEING HERE
TODAY.
WE'VE BEEN WAITING FOR THIS 
OPPORTUNITY FOR, TO HAVE YOU 
TELL US, WHAT DO WE DO NOW?
A SIMPLE QUESTION, DOCTOR.
>> WE HAVE TO TELL OURSELVES, A 
DIFFERENT STORY ABOUT HOW WE GOT
TO THIS MOMENT AND FACE THE 
TRUTH OF WHAT IS IN FRONT OF US.
AND THAT IS TO MOBILIZING AND 
ORGANIZE IN ORDER TO FIGHT FOR A
MORE JUST SOCIETY.
AND WE CAN TALK ABOUT THOSE 
PARTICULARS.
>> WE ALWAYS START BY ASKING OUR
GUESTS TO PLACE THEMSELVES IN 
BLACK AMERICA, IT'S MISSISSIPPI.
>> COUNTRY BOY. 
>> COUNTRY BOY. 
>> COUNTRY BOY FROM THE COAST IN
A SMALL TOWN NAMED MOSS POINT,
NAMED FOR THE MOSS DANGLING FROM
THE MAGNOLIA TREES.
>> AND YOUR DAD WORKED FOR THE 
POST OFFICE.
>> SECOND AFRICAN-AMERICAN 
HIRED AT THE POST OFFICE IN
PASCAGOULA, MISSISSIPPI.
AND DECIDED TO MOVE HIS KIDS 
FROM ONE SIDE OF TOWN TO THE 
OTHER. 
>> NOW WHERE YOU WERE LIVING IT 
WAS SUBJECT TO FLOODING.
YOU TALKED ABOUT THAT AND WRITE
ABOUT THAT.
>> WE LIVED IN A SMALL 
NEIGHBORHOOD AND EVERY TIME IT 
RAINED, IT WOULD FLOOD, I MEAN 
LITERALLY.
YOU COULD LITERALLY WADE IN THE 
WATER.
AND IT HAD EVERYTHING TO DO WITH
BAD PIPES, A LOT OF FOLKS WORKED
AT THE PAPER MILL THAT'S NOW 
CLOSED AND THE SHIPYARDS AND 
CHEVRON AND HOUSES WERE SMALLER.
THE SIDEWALKS WEREN'T PAVED.
THE BASEBALL DIAMOND WASN'T CUT 
REGULARLY.
THEN WE MOVED TO THE OTHER SIDE 
OF TOWN AND THINGS WERE A LITTLE
BIT DIFFERENT. 
>> THINGS WERE A LITTLE BIT 
DIFFERENT.
SO WHAT, WHAT PROPELLED YOUR DAD
TO DO THIS?
IT'S ALWAYS INTERESTING, THAT 
KEY OF HAD YOU STAYED IN THAT 
PART OF TOWN YOU
MIGHT HAVE BEEN A DIFFERENT 
EDDIE GLAUDE.
>> YEAH, I MEAN I THINK MY DAD 
IS BRILLIANT IN EVERY WAY.
COMPLICATED MAN, BUT HE'S 
BRILLIANT.
AND YOU KNOW, HE WENT OFF, LEFT 
HOME EARLY LIKE I DID, RUNNING 
AWAY FROM HIS FATHER, LIKE I 
DID.
WENT TO THE NAVY.
AND CAME BACK AND HAD MASSIVE 
AMBITION.
BUT HIM AND MY MOTHER AS 
CHILDREN, HAD CHILDREN SO MY 
MOTHER WAS PREGNANT WITH MY 
OLDER SISTER, AT AND HAD HER IN 
THE NINTH GRADE AND MY FATHER 
WENT OFF TO THE SERVICE AND CAME
BACK HOME AND RAISED FOUR KIDS.
TWO OF WHOM WEREN'T HIS, BUT 
THEY ARE MY BROTHERS AND 
SISTERS, BUT HE RAISED THEM WITH
HIS NAME AND HE SAW THAT WE WERE
ALL REALLY, REALLY TALENTED.
AND THAT BRILLIANCE AND AMBITION
EVIDENCED ITSELF IN IMAGINING A 
BETTER LIFE FOR HIS KIDS.
SO I REMEMBER GROWING UP, WE 
WOULD HAVE TO LINE UP OUTSIDE OF
THE LIVING ROOM AND HE WOULD 
CALL US IN EACH, ONE BY ONE AND 
ASK TO SEE OUR REPORT CARDS.
AND MY SISTER GRADUATED 
VALEDICTORIAN OF OUR HIGH SCHOOL
AND WENT OFF TO SPELMAN AND I 
CAME BEHIND HER AND WENT OFF TO 
MOOREHOUSE AND MY BROTHER WAS A 
FULL TIME RETIRED SERVICE MEMBER
OF THE AIR FORCE AND MY OLDEST 
SISTER, THE FIRST BORN.
MY MOTHER HAD GERMAN MEASLES AND
SHE'S STILL HOME, SEVERELY 
HANDICAPPED AND MY MOTHER IS 
STILL CARING FOR HER, 54 YEARS.
>> AND YOU RAN AWAY FROM YOUR 
DAD?
>> MY DAD IS A FORCEFUL, 
FORCEFUL, COMPLICATED GUY.
YOU KNOW.
I'VE BEEN AS JIMMY, JAMES 
BALDWIN GRAPPLED WITH HIS 
STEP-FATHER, I'VE BEEN GRAPPLING
WITH THIS OVERWHELMING PRESENCE 
IN MY LIFE SINCE WAYS A YOUNG 
KID AND I LOOK EXACTLY LIKE HIM 
AND I WAS DEATHLY AFRAID OF HIM.
BECAUSE HIS RAGES WERE -- WERE 
PRONOUNCED.
AND DEEPLY FELT.
HE COULD JUST LOOK AT YOU AND 
YOU WERE SHUDDER ON THE DEEP 
INSIDE.
BUT AT THE SAME TIME, I GET MY 
DISCIPLINE FROM HIM.
I GET MY RESOLVE FROM HIM.
I REMEMBER IN THE FOURTH GRADE I
WAS IN MISS DAVIS' CLASS AND I 
THOUGHT SHE WAS BEING A BIT 
RACIST.
AND I REMEMBER JUMPING UP AND 
YELLING, "YOU'RE A RACIST."
AND I WALKED OUT OF HER CLASS 
AND MY DAD DIDN'T TOLERATE THAT 
KIND OF BEHAVIOR, LEAVING CLASS,
THAT IS.
AND I WENT HOME THINKING I WAS 
GOING TO GET KILLED.
AND HE ASKED ME, WHAT DID SHE 
DO?
AND I TOLD HIM, AND HE SAID 
EVERY TIME SOMEONE DOES THAT TO 
YOU, YOU DO THE EXACT SAME 
THING.
>> AND YOU'VE BEEN DOING THAT 
EVER SINCE, JUST LAST WEEK.
PERHAPS JUST THIS MORNING. 
>> I'VE BEEN TRYING TO LIVE UP 
TO THAT CROWN HE PUT ON ME.
>> FROM MOOREHOUSE TO -- 
>> THAT, THAT LEAP FROM 
MOOREHOUSE TO PRINCETON, HIGHLY 
PRESTIGIOUS PROFESSORSHIP, IN 
AFRICAN-AMERICAN STUDIES AND 
RELIGION, HOW DID YOU MAKE THAT 
CONNECTION?
>> I'VE ALWAYS BEEN SOMEONE WHO 
LOVES THE SOLITUDE OF READING.
SOMEONE WHO REVELS IN THE LIFE 
OF THE MIND.
I WAS AT TEMPLE AT THE TIME AND 
I WAS HAVING A DIFFICULT TIME AT
TEMPLE IN THE AFRICAN-AMERICAN 
STUDIES DEPARTMENT.
I WENT OVERSEAS TO STUDY WITH 
THE LATE GREAT STUART HALL AND I
WAS PART OF READING EVERY DAY, 
PORTIONS OF THE BLACK BRITISH 
INVASION.
I WAS AT A CONFERENCE IN 
UNIVERSITY OF WISCONSIN, 
MADISON, AFRICAN-AMERICAN 
STUDIES.
SKIP GATES WAS THERE, ASANTE.
MOLEFI ASANTE,
THE LATE MANNI MARBLE.
ARNOLD RAMPERSAD,
NELL PAINTER AND I DELIVERED A 
PAPER AS A GRADUATE STUDENT AND 
CORNELL WEST HEARD IT.
>> WHEN HE WAS AT PRINCETON.
WAS HE AT PRINCETON AT THE TIME?
>> ASKED ME TO COME STUDY WITH 
HIM. 
>> THERE YOU GO.
>> THAT'S THE CONNECTION. 
>> THAT IS THE CONNECTION. 
>> YEAH. 
>> SO I KNOW THAT SO NOW WE KNOW
WHERE CALLING A RACIST A RACIST 
COMES FROM.
BUT YOU'VE CALLED DONALD TRUMP A
NEOFASCIST.
TELL US, WHAT DO YOU MEAN BY 
THAT AND WHAT DO WE DO WITH 
THAT?
>> WE HAVE TO LOOK AT HOW HE 
CAME INTO OFFICE.
WE HAVE TO LOOK AT THE WAYS IN 
WHICH HE EXPLOITED OUR FEARS.
HIS OWN UNDERSTANDING OF 
GOVERNANCE THAT IS NOT IN SOME 
WAYS COMMITTED TO THE 
INSTITUTIONS OF DEMOCRACY.
THE WAYS IN WHICH HE FIGURES 
HIMSELF AS KIND OF A STRONG MAN 
WHO IS GOING TO RESOLVE THE 
PROBLEMS THAT HE TAKES TO BE AT 
THE HEART OF THE COUNTRY.
HE LOOKS LIKE A LOT OF THE 
FIGURES OF TOTALITARIANISM.
HIS RELATIONSHIP TO THE PRESS.
HOW HE USES DELIBERATIVE SPACE 
FOR PARTICULAR SORTS OF ENDS.
AND HE'S NEO, IN THE SENSE THAT 
IT'S NOT KIND OF BLATANT 
FASCISM, IN THE OLD SENSE OF 
MUSSOLINI AND HITLER, RIGHT?
IT'S THE WAY HE TAKES ADVANTAGE 
OF POPULAR MEDIA TO PRODUCE A 
CERTAIN KIND OF IMAGE OF HIMSELF
AND A CERTAIN UNDERSTANDING OF 
WHAT IT MEANS TO BE A PART OF A 
SOCIETY WHERE THE CITIZENS, THE 
NOTION OF CITIZENSHIP TO MY MIND
IS GUTTED.
AND WHAT WE GET INSTEAD ARE 
FOLLOWERS.
FANS.
>> SO AS CITIZENS, WE'RE 
FOLLOWERS OR NOT. 
>> FOLLOWERS OR NOT.
SO THIS KIND OF THE POPULISM 
FROM THE RIGHT, IT'S ALWAYS BEEN
SO UGLY IN THIS COUNTRY.
AND WHAT HAPPENS WHEN THAT 
POPULISM HAS BEEN CHANNELED TO A
FIGURE, A PERSONALITY LIKE 
DONALD TRUMP.
AND TO MY MIND, YOU HAVE TO 
START TELLING THE TRUTH.
YOU CAN'T TRY TO NORMALIZE THE 
GUY.
WE CAN'T TRY TO MAKE HIM 
SOMETHING THAT HE'S NOT.
WHAT IS HE, TO MY MIND, IS A 
NEOFACIST.
>> WHAT DOES BLACK AMERICA DO IN
THAT?
I GET THE FEELING THAT BLACK 
AMERICA HAS RECEDED AS, AS A 
TOPIC, AS AN ISSUE, AS A 
CONCERN, AS WE'VE GRAPPLED WITH 
THIS HUGE PERSONALITY.
>> DO YOU FEEL THAT AS WELL?
>> IT WAS PRECEDED BY AN 
EXPLICIT CONVERSATION, IN SOME 
WAYS THAT BEGAN WITH PRESIDENT 
OBAMA AT THE LEVEL OF POLICY, 
RIGHT?
SO IT WAS VERY DIFFICULT FOR 
PRESIDENT OBAMA TO ADDRESS THE 
CIRCUMSTANCES, THE PARTICULAR 
CIRCUMSTANCES OF BLACK PEOPLE, 
WITHOUT BEING ACCUSED OF 
ENGAGING IN THIS, YOU KNOW, 
DISPROPORTIONATE TREATMENT, 
UNFAIR TREATMENT OF WHITE FOLKS 
IN THAT SENSE.
BUT WHEN YOU LOOK AT WHAT 
SESSIONS IS DOING, IN THE DOJ, 
CALL THAT THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT
SHOULD NOT INTERVENE IN LOCAL 
POLICE ENFORCEMENT OR LAW 
ENFORCEMENT MATTERS.
OR WHAT YOU LOOK AT WHAT 
SESSIONS HAS DONE WITH REGARDS 
TO WANTING TO REVIEW THE 
AGREEMENTS SET UP WITH LOCAL 
POLICE FORCES LIKE THAT IN 
FERGUSON AND BALTIMORE.
>> THE MILITARIZATION. 
>> THE CONTINUED MILITARIZATION.
WHEN YOU THINK ABOUT EXECUTIVE 
ORDERS.
WHEN YOU THINK ABOUT THE WAY IN 
WHICH THEY'RE GOVERNING BLACK 
FOLK ALL OVER THE PLACE.
WE'RE BEING THOUGHT ABOUT, JUST 
NOT IN ANY DIRECT AND SPECIFIC 
WAY.
I THINK PART OF WHAT WE HAVE TO 
DO IS KIND OF LOOK AT WHERE WE 
ARE, UNDERSTAND OUR LOCAL 
POLITICS, UNDERSTAND WHAT IT 
MEANS TO BE ORGANIZED.
IN RELATION TO THOSE ISSUES THAT
ARE RIGHT IN FRONT OF US AND 
BEGIN TO CHALLENGE.
AS ACTIVELY AND DIRECTLY AS WE 
CAN, RIGHT?
THE STATUS QUO.
>> YOU TALK ABOUT LOCAL.
BECAUSE I THINK THAT'S WHERE ALL
OF THIS IS GOING.
I JUST WANT TO BACKTRACK FOR A 
MINUTE TO THE ELECTION AND I 
KNOW WE NEED TO LOOK FORWARD AS 
OPPOSED TO BACK.
YOU AND YOUR SON LANGSTON ON 
"DEMOCRACY NOW" WITH AMY 
GOODMAN, HAVE THIS ADVICE, 
VOTING ADVICE THAT WAS SOMEWHAT 
PROVOCATIVE AT THE TIME.
LET'S TAKE A LOOK AT THAT.
>> I BELIEVE IN THE PLANET IS 
WARMING, I DO, I'M NOT A CLIMATE
CHANGE DENIER, BUT IF YOU LOOK 
AT MY HOUSE AND LOOK AT MY CAR 
AND LOOK AT THE LIGHT BULBS IN 
MY HOUSE, YOU WILL THINK I THINK
THE PLANET IS OKAY.
I'M MAKING CHOICES DAY IN AND 
DAY OUT THAT CONTRIBUTE TO THE 
WARMING OF THE PLANET.
BUT I'M NOT RUNNING AROUND 
LOUDLY SAYING, NO, NO, THE 
SCIENCE IS WRONG.
THAT'S JUST THE WAY RACIAL 
INEQUALITY WORKS.
IT'S NOT ABOUT INTENTIONAL 
PREJUDICE, IT'S ABOUT A CULTURAL
PRACTICE, PROFESSOR IMANI PERRY 
SAYS. 
>> I WANT TO END BY ASKING YOU 
AND LANGSTON ABOUT YOUR CHOICE 
FOR PRESIDENT.
BERNIE SANDERS JUST ENDORSED 
HILLARY CLINTON AND YOUR 
THOUGHTS ON THAT.
AND THEN WE'LL HAVE A POST-SHOW 
QUESTION. 
>> I BELIEVE IN SEEING THAT 
WONDERFUL NOVEL WRITTEN BY A 
PORTUGUESE WRITER, NOBEL PRIZE 
WINNER 1996 THAT WE SHOULD BLANK
OUT.
THAT THOSE OF US WHO ARE NOT IN 
THE BATTLEGROUND STATES, THAT 
THOSE OF US WHO ARE IN BLUE 
STATES OR RED STATES THAT WE 
SHOULD JUST LEAVE THE BALLOT 
BLANK.
I AS MELVILLE'S BARNABY 
SCRIVENER SAYS, I PREFER NOT.
I CAN'T STAND EITHER ONE OF 
THEM. 
>> LANGSTON, YOUR THOUGHTS ON 
THE ELECTION?
>> I AGREE 100%.
THERE NEEDS TO BE A STANCE 
AMONGST THE PEOPLE THAT WE ARE 
NOT GOING TO SPLIM ACCEPT THE 
STATUS QUO ANY LONGER.
ESPECIALLY WHEN THE STATUS QUO 
IS THE VERY THING THAT IS 
COSTING OUR LIVES AND OUR 
LIVELIHOODS, SO I PERSONALLY 
DON'T FIND EITHER ONE OF THE 
CANDIDATES FAVORABLE IN ANY 
SENSE, BECAUSE AGAIN A CHANGE 
NEEDS TO COME ON BEHALF OF THE 
PEOPLE AND I DON'T BELIEVE 
EITHER ONE IS PREPARED TO BRING 
THAT CHANGE.
>> YOU'RE PROUD OF YOUR SON, 
LANGSTON AT BROWN UNIVERSITY.
SO HOLY SMOKES, EDDIE, YOU KNOW,
HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS, IF NOT 
MILLIONS OF PEOPLE SEEM TO HAVE 
DONE EXACTLY THAT.
THEY MAY HAVE VOTED DOWN-TICKET,
BUT LEFT THE PRESIDENTIAL PIECE 
OF THAT OUT.
SO LOOK WHAT WE GOT.
I MEAN DO YOU RETHINK THAT?
>> NO, I DON'T, ACTUALLY.
I THINK WE NEED TO UNDERSTAND 
THE ELECTION FOR WHAT IT IS.
AND THE ELECTION, WHITE FOLKS 
ARE RESPONSIBLE FOR DONALD 
TRUMP, NOT BLACK FOLKS.
I WANT TO BE VERY CLEAR ABOUT 
THAT.
IT SEEMS TO ME WHEN WE LOOK AT 
THE FACT THAT HILLARY CLINTON 
BEAT HIM BY THREE MILLION 
POPULAR VOTES, ACTUAL VOTES, 
WHEN WE THINK ABOUT YOUNG FOLK 
IN SOME WAYS, WHAT HAPPENED TO 
HILLARY CLINTON, AND HAD 
ANYTHING TO DO WITH YOUNG 
VOTERS, VOTING THIRD PARTY.
HAD SOMETHING TO DO WITH VOTER 
SUPPRESSION.
IN PLACES LIKE NORTH CAROLINA, 
VOTER I.D. LAWS IN PLACES LIKE 
WISCONSIN.
HAD EVERYTHING TO DO WITH THE 
POLICIES OF THE CLINTON 
CAMPAIGN.
AND THE BACKLASH.
SO WHAT WE, WHAT I WAS SAYING 
WAS THAT THE ONLY THING THE 
DEMOCRATIC PARTY HAD TO DO, THE 
ONLY THING THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY 
HAD TO DO WAS COME OUT WITH AN 
EXPLICIT AGENDA TO ADDRESS THE 
SUFFERING OF BLACK PEOPLE.
ROLL IT OUT IN DETAIL AND 
CONVINCE US THAT NOT JUST YOU 
HAVE HOT SAUCE IN YOUR PURSE, OR
NOT JUST SIMPLY CUTTING, TRYING 
TO DO THE -- 
>> FAMOUS -- 
>> TRYING TO DANCE OR DO 
WHATEVER. KIND OF APPEALING
A EMOTIONS, LET'S LOOK
AT THE POLICY ISSUES AND THEN WE
CAN MOBILIZE.
THE WHAT WE SAW WAS THE 
CORPORATE FACE OF THE DEMOCRATIC
PARTY.
AND WHAT RESULTED WAS A KIND OF,
A KIND OF CHOICE THAT WAS MADE 
BY NOT GOING TO THE POLLS.
OVER 40% OF AMERICANS DIDN'T 
VOTE AT ALL.
AND THEN YOU LOOK AT REPUBLICANS
ON THE OTHER SIDE, THERE WERE 
LARGE NUMBER OF REPUBLICANS WHO 
OPTED OUT AS WELL.
THEY DIDN'T LIKE THE CHOICES.
SO I THINK WHEN YOU LOOK AT THE 
FUNDAMENTALS, THIS WASN'T A 
WORKING, WHITE WORKING-CLASS 
REBELLION.
CORNELL BROOKS LATEST BOOK LET'S
US KNOW THAT'S NOT WHAT 
HAPPENED.
AND IN SOME WAYS WHAT HAPPENED 
IS THAT YOUNG FOLK DECIDED THAT 
THEY WERE GOING TO VOTE THIRD 
PARTY.
THAT BLACK VOTERS DECIDED NOT TO
TURN OUT.
VOTES WERE SUPPRESSED AND 
HILLARY CLINTON IN SOME WAYS 
FAILED, HER CAMPAIGN FAILED.
AND OF COURSE -- 
>> EVEN THOUGH BARACK OBAMA 
POLITICKED FOR HER, BEGGED 
PEOPLE TO VOTE FOR HER, THEY DID
NOT FOLLOW.
WHAT WAS THE DISCONNECT. 
>> I WAS HEARTENED BY THAT.
OFTENTIMES THERE'S THIS SENSE 
THAT FOLK TREAT US LIKE WE'RE 
CATTLE CHEWING CUD.
THAT'S ALL WE HAVE TO DO IS PUT 
SOME FIGURE, BEYONCE IN FRONT OF
US OR LeBRON JAMES, IN FRONT OF 
US OR BARACK OBAMA IN FRONT OF 
US AND WE'RE JUST GOING TO 
FOLLOW THE CELEBRITY FIGURE.
WE'RE GOING TO FOLLOW THE 
LEADER.
AND WHAT WE SAW IS THAT THAT 
KIND OF CELEBRITY DOESN'T 
REALLY, DIDN'T IN THIS INSTANCE,
SPEAK TO THE SUFFERING THAT 
BLACK COMMUNITIES WERE IN FACT 
AND STILL ARE EXPERIENCING.
WE NEEDED SOME MORE CONTENT.
AND I THINK AS LONG AS THE 
DEMOCRATIC PARTY TREAT US AS IF 
WE'RE CATTLE CHEWING CUD, TO BE 
HERDED TO THE POLLS EVERY TWO 
AND FOUR YEARS, WE'RE GOING TO 
CONTINUE TO SEW THIS KIND OF 
RESPONSE. 
>> THAT MAKES A LOT OF SENSE.
DID YOU ACTUALLY CALL BARACK 
OBAMA A SNAKE OIL SALESMAN?
WHAT QUOTE WAS THAT?
>> I LOVE HERMAN MELVILLE.
AND IT CAME FROM MELVILLE'S "THE
CONFIDENCE MAN."
I SAID HE'S A MELVILLIAN 
CONFIDENCE MAN SELLING THE SNAKE
OIL OF HOPE AND CHANGE.
I GOT IN A LOT OF TROUBLE. 
>> I KNOW, A LOT OF TROUBLE.
WHAT, WHAT, WHAT, YOU STILL 
STAND BY IT?
>> YEAH.
PART OF WHAT I SAY IS THAT YOU 
KNOW IT'S IMPORTANT, IT WAS 
IMPORTANT, THAT WE ELECTED AN 
AFRICAN-AMERICAN TO BE PRESIDENT
OF THE UNITED STATES.
THAT'S MY BABY.
THAT GROWN MAN GREW UP WITH THE 
BLACK MAN IN THE WHITE HOUSE.
BUT HE ALSO GREW UP WITH TAMIR 
RICE, MIKE BROWN, ERIC GARNER, 
SANDRA BLAND.
HE HAD TO COME TO TERMS WITH THE
CONTRADICTION THAT HE'S ALSO 
GROWN UP WITH THE FACT THAT 
STUDENT LOAN DEBT HAS SURPASSED 
CREDIT CARD DEBT.
HE'S GROWN UP WITH THE 
FUNDAMENTALS OF BLACK LIFE, 
RIGHT, LITERALLY, UNSTABLE IN 
EVERY SHAPE, FORM OR FASHION.
GREW UP IN THE CONTEXT OF THE 
HOUSING CRISIS.
WHERE EIGHT YEARS OF POLICY 
DIDN'T ADDRESS THE RACIAL 
DIMENSIONS OF THE FACT THAT 
BLACK AMERICA HAS LOST WEALTH AT
A LEVEL WE HAVEN'T SEEN SINCE 
THE COLLAPSE OF THE FRIEDMAN'S 
BANK.
WHAT I WAS SAYING ABOUT BARACK 
OBAMA IS ONCE THE REPUBLICANS 
TOOK OVER CONGRESS AND ONCE 
MITCH McCONNELL SAID THAT HIS 
OBJECTIVE WAS TO MAKE HIM A 
ONE-TERM PRESIDENT, ONCE HE SAW 
ALL OF THE BLACK -- I WANTED HIM
TO GO BIG, I WANTED HIM TO GO 
BOLD.
TO PUT FORTH AN AGENDA THAT 
COULD CHANGE THE COURSE OF THE 
NATION AND HE DIDN'T DO IT.
AND THE QUESTION IS WHY, WE HAVE
TO ASK THAT QUESTION. 
>> YOU SOUND A LOT LIKE DONALD 
TRUMP, THAT'S WHAT HE SAYS ABOUT
BLACK AMERICA THAT WE'RE IN SUCH
BAD SHAPE, WE'RE BLEAK, THE 
SITUATION IS BLEAK, ET CETERA.
YOU'RE SAYING ESSENTIALLY THE 
SAME THING THAT DONALD TRUMP.
WHAT'S THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN?
>> WELL YOU KNOW, DONALD TRUMP, 
YOU CAN TRADE IN STEREOTYPES, 
ALL STEREOTYPES HAVE A MODICUM 
OF TRUTH.
CHANGE THE JOKE, SLIP THE YOKE.
I KNOW DONALD TRUMP BRINGS UP 
THOSE ISSUES ONLY TO CONFIRM 
CERTAIN PREJUDICES ABOUT BLACK 
FOLK.
THAT WE CAN GET SHOT IN OUR 
NEIGHBORHOODS, THAT THERE'S NO 
CLASS DIFFERENTIATION WITHIN OUR
THAT I'M NOT DOING WELL THAT 
WE'RE ALL SUFFERING IN THESE 
OPPORTUNITY DESERTS AS IT WERE.
NOW TO REJECT TRUMP'S 
STEREOTYPICAL INVOCATION OF 
BLACK SUFFERING IS NOT TO DENY 
THE REALITY OF BLACK SUFFERING.
I CAN TALK ABOUT THE FACT THAT 
I'M WALKING AROUND IN MY BLUE 
GLASSES AND HICKEY FRIEDMAN 
SUIT.
RIGHT?
BUT AT THE SAME TIME I GOT TO BE
ABLE TO TALK HONESTLY ABOUT THE 
FACT THAT PEOPLE ARE LOSING 
THEIR HOMES.
THAT FOLKS ARE NOT JUST SIMPLY 
UNDEREMPLOYED, THAT SOME FOLKS 
HAVE SIMPLY DROPPED OUT OF THE 
ECONOMY.
>> WHAT DO YOU CALL THE BLACK 
DEPRESSION.
>> THE GREAT BLACK DEPRESSION. 
>> THAT WE'RE IN NOW.
>> THAT WE'RE IN.
AND EVERYBODY TALKS ABOUT HOW 
THE NATION CARED ABOUT THE 
ECONOMIC DEVASTATION OF 2008.
WHEN IN FACT WE'RE STILL 
CATCHING HELL.
>> AND YOU TELL THE STORY OF ONE
WOMAN WHO LOST HER HOME AND 
POLICE CAME IN AND RAIDED.
I MEAN OVER A FINANCIAL ISSUE AS
IF SHE WERE A CRIMINAL.
>> MY COLLEAGUE DOUG AND 
OTHERS WROTE AN EXTRAORDINARY 
PAPER DETAILING THE RACIAL 
DIMENSIONS OF THE HOUSING 
CRISIS.
HOW PEOPLE WHO WOULD ORDINARILY 
BE, BLACK MIDDLE CLASS, WERE 
DIRECTED TO THESE VERY OBSCURE 
MORTGAGES THAT LEFT THEM IN THE 
LURCH.
NOT THEY OVERREACHED AS CHARLES 
KRAUTHAMMER AND OTHERS WERE 
TALKING ABOUT, THAT THEY WERE 
LITERALLY TARGETED FOR THESE 
EXOTIC MORTGAGES.
CHRISTINE WASN'T THAT, WASN'T 
EXACTLY THAT CASE, BUT WHAT 
HAPPENED WAS HER HUSBAND PASSED.
OF DIABETES.
SOMETHING THAT DISEASE THAT 
RAVAGES OUR COMMUNITIES.
AND SHE FOUND HERSELF STRUGGLING
TO KEEP UP WITH THE MORTGAGE.
AND THEY IMPLORED THE POLICE, 
IMPLORED THE POLICE TO PULL THAT
YOUNG MAN, THAT PHYSICIAN OFF 
THE AIRLINES, TO COME INTO HER 
HOUSE AT 2:00, 3:00 IN THE 
MORNING.
PICK THE LOCK.
KICK THEM OUT OF THE HOUSE, 
PICKED UP ALL OF THEIR 
BELONGINGS, A LIFETIME WORTH OF 
MEMORIES AND THREW IT OUT IN THE
YARD.
AND THEY DIDN'T HAVE ANY SPACE 
FOR HER.
BUT THEY CALLED ANIMAL CONTROL.
>> JUST EXTRAORDINARY.
>> A PLACE FOR HER DOGS TO GO, 
BUT NOT FOR HER.
>> YOUR BOOK, YOUR BOOK IS 
FASCINATING, BECAUSE YOU DON'T 
LAY BLAME ONLY ON WHITE AMERICA.
YOU TALK ABOUT BLACK AMERICA'S 
RESPONSIBILITY IN ALL OF THIS.
WE HAVE A CLIP OF YOU TALKING 
ABOUT WHITE SUPREMACY AND LET'S 
TAKE A LOOK AT THAT AND THEN 
WE'LL TALK ABOUT IT ON THE OTHER
SIDE. 
>> THE PHRASE WHITE SUPREMACY 
CONJURES UP IMAGES OF BAD MEN IN
HOODED ROBES WHO BELIEVE IN 
WHITE POWER, BURNING CROSSES AND
SCREAMING THE WORD, NIGGER, 
RIGHT?
BUT THAT'S NOT QUITE WHAT I MEAN
BY THAT PHRASE, RIGHT?
ON A BROADER LEVEL WHITE 
SUPREMACY INVOLVES THE WAY A 
SOCIETY ORGANIZES ITSELF.
AND WHAT AND WHOM IT CHOOSES TO 
VALUE.
APARTHEID IN SOUTH AFRICA, THE 
JIM CROW SOUTH, NAZI GERMANY ARE
CLEAR EXAMPLES OF WHITE 
SUPREMACY AND IN EACH CASE THE 
BELIEF THAT WHITE PEOPLE ARE 
VALUED MORE THAN NONWHITE PEOPLE
SHAPED EVERY ASPECT OF SOCIAL 
AND POLITICAL LIFE.
IT DETERMINED WHERE YOU LIVE, 
WHICH SCHOOLS YOU ATTENDED AND 
WHICH JOBS WERE AVAILABLE TO YOU
AND REMINDED YOU DAILY OF YOUR 
STATUS AND STATION IN LIFE.
AND THAT'S WHAT WHITE SUPREMACY 
IS.
WITHOUT ALL THE BLUSTER, IT'S A 
SET OF PRACTICES INFORMED BY THE
FUNDAMENTAL BELIEF THAT WHITE 
PEOPLE ARE VALUED MORE THAN 
OTHERS.
NOW IN NO WAY DO WE LIVE IN A 
SOCIETY LIKE NAZI GERMANY OR 
APARTHEID SOUTH AFRICA.
BUT WE DO LIVE IN A COUNTRY 
WHERE EVERY-DAY BLACK PEOPLE 
CONFRONT THE DAMNING REALITY 
THAT WE ARE LESS VALUED.
>> SO THAT WE, THAT WE ARE LESS 
VALUABLE.
WHAT YOU SAY IS THAT WHEN YOU 
TALK ABOUT THE VALUE PIECE OF 
THIS IS THAT WE ACTED, AS BLACK 
AMERICANS OURSELVES.
TALK A LITTLE BIT ABOUT THAT.
>> MY COLLEAGUE, IMANI PERRY
AT PRINCETON.
>> I LOVE HER.
TRY TO GET HER ON THE SHOW.
TELL HER.
>> SHE WROTE AN EXTRAORDINARY 
BOOK "MORE BEAUTIFUL, MORE 
TERRIBLE." SHE SAID THAT
WE NEED TO THINK ABOUT RACIAL 
INEQUALITY AS A CULTURAL 
PRACTICE.
IT'S NOT JUST SIMPLY A 
DISTINCTION BETWEEN STRUCTURE 
AND INTENTION.
THAT IT'S BOTH AND.
AND THE WAY THAT WE PARSE THAT 
IS THE VALUE GAP.
THE VALUE GAP IS THIS BELIEF 
THAT WHITE PEOPLE MATTER MORE 
THAN OTHERS AND THAT BELIEF 
ORGANIZES OUR SOCIAL AND 
POLITICAL ARRANGEMENTS AND THAT 
BELIEF IS NOT THE POSSESSION, 
SIMPLY ALLOWED RACISM.
TO THINK IT IS AND THE 
POSSESSION OF LOUD RACISM IS TO 
LET US OFF THE HOOK.
I BELIEVE THE PLANET IS GETTING 
WARMER.
BY EVERY MEASURE THIS WAS THE 
HOTTEST YEAR ON RECORD, LAST 
YEAR. 
>> CRAZY WEATHER SEASON.
>> LAST YEAR WAS THE HOTTEST 
YEAR ON RECORD.
THE YEAR BEFORE THAT WAS THE 
HOTTEST YEAR ON RECORD.
I BELIEVE THE PLANET IS WARMING 
AND I BELIEVE IT'S BECAUSE OF 
WHAT WE'RE DOING IN PART, HUMAN 
BEINGS ARE CONTRIBUTING TO IT.
IF YOU LIVED IN MY HOUSE, YOU 
LOOK AT MY CAR, YOU LOOK AT MY 
LIGHT BULBS, YOU WOULD THINK 
THAT I THOUGHT THE PLANET WAS 
JUST FINE.
THAT I WASN'T -- 
>> BECAUSE YOU HAVEN'T CHANGED 
YOUR BEHAVIOR.
>> MY CHOICES ARE ARE REFLECTIVE
OF A SET OF THE RULES THAT THE 
PLANET IS JUST FINE.
THAT'S THE WAY RACIAL INEQUALITY
IS REPRODUCED.
PEOPLE ARE MAKING CHOICES.
I WANT MY KIDS TO GO TO THE BEST
SCHOOL.
WHEN WE KNOW ACCORDING TO THE 
SOCIAL SCIENCES, WHEN WE HEAR 
THAT, THAT'S A PROXY FOR HOW 
MANY BLACK AND BROWN KIDS GO TO 
THAT SCHOOL.
I WANT TO LIVE IN A SAFE 
NEIGHBORHOOD WHERE MY PROPERTY 
VALUES ARE STABLE.
WE KNOW WHAT THAT IS.
PEOPLE ARE MAKING CHOICES DAY IN
AND DAY 0-OUT THAT WE PRODUCE 
THE COULD BE TEXT OF VALUE.
IT'S SOCIALIZING US TO LIVE IN A
WORLD WHERE WHITE PEOPLE ARE 
VALUED MORE THAN OTHERS.
EVEN AS THEY SAY THEY ARE 
COMMITTED TO RACIAL EQUALITY, 
RIGHT?
AND YOU LEARN RACIAL INEQUALITY 
BY DRIVING AROUND WHERE YOU 
LIVE.
YOU CAN LITERALLY TURN A CORNER 
AND CROSS THE TRACK, YOU LEARN 
RACE SPATIALLY IN THE UNITED 
STATES.
AND WHAT DO WE DO?
>> WHAT DO WE -- I'M LOOKING FOR
THE BLACK AMERICAN RESPONSE TO 
THIS.
WHERE DO YOU THINK WE PUT OUR 
EFFORTS NOW TO CHANGE THIS, WHAT
YOU AND DONALD TRUMP WOULD 
DESCRIBE AS BLEAK CONDITION FOR 
MANY BLACK AMERICANS?
>> I CAN'T STAND TO BE LINKED TO
DONALD TRUMP.
>> I KNOW, I KNOW.
AND I DEFINITELY -- KNOW THE 
DIFFERENCE.
>> I THINK IT'S IT REQUIRES A, A
BETTER NARRATIVE, A BETTER STORY
OF WHERE WE ARE.
GIVING US A FULLER ACCOUNT OF 
THE CURRENT MALAISE.
AND TWO, IT REQUIRES REIMAGINING
WHAT IS POSSIBLE.
POLITICALLY.
AND THAT'S GOING TO BE 
ORGANIZING.
AND THAT'S GOING TO BE 
ORGANIZING AT THE LOCAL LEVEL.
MY HEROINE IS MISS ELLA BAKER.
"END OF DEMOCRACY IN BLACK",
WHO'S INFORMING THE POLITICS.
>> BEFORE YOU GO AND I HOPE 
YOU'LL COME BACK, WE ALWAYS ASK 
OUR GUESTS TO FINISH THE 
STATEMENT, STRENGTH AND POWER OF
BLACK AMERICA LIES IN -- WHAT'S 
THAT FOR YOU.
>> THE STRENGTH AND POWER OF 
BLACK AMERICA LIES IN US.
WE ARE THE LEADERS, AS MISS 
BAKER SAID.
WE ARE THE LEADERS WE'VE BEEN 
LOOKING FOR AND WE BELIEVE THAT.
WE CAN CHANGE THE WORLD.
>> AND THE LEADERS I KNOW IN THE
BOOK YOU MENTIONED CHARLENE 
CARRUTHERS OF BYP 100
AS THE EXAMPLE OF THE
FUTURE OF WHAT WE NEED.
WHY AND SHE'S BEEN ON THE SHOW.
WE ADORE HER AS WELL.
>> BYP 100 IS UNASHAMEDLY LGBTQ 
ORGANIZATION AND UNASHAMEDLY 
BLACK ORGANIZATION.
THEY WANT US TO UNDERSTAND IF WE
ARE GOING TO CHANGE OUR NATION, 
WE HAVE TO CHANGE THE 
UNDERSTANDING OF WHO WE ARE AS A
PEOPLE.
WE HAVE TO BE MORE WELCOMING, 
MORE OPEN.
WE HAVE TO UNDERSTAND THE 
COMPLEXITY OF WHAT BLACK AMERICA
ACTUALLY IS AND BEGIN TO 
ORGANIZE AND REFLECT THOSE IN 
OUR COMMUNITY WHO ARE, WHO ARE 
WHAT KATHY COHEN CALLS SECONDARY
MARGINALIZATION.
THOSE WHO ARE IN THE MARGINS OF 
OUR COMMUNITY.
THOSE WHO ARE IN THE SHADOWS, IN
THE GAPS.
WE HAVE TO HAVE A FULLER, MORE 
COMPLEX AND NUANCED 
UNDERSTANDING OF WHO WE ARE AS 
BLACK PEOPLE.
AND ORGANIZE FROM THAT VANTAGE 
POINT AND BYP 100, THOSE YOUNG 
FOLK.
>> BASED IN CHICAGO.
GREAT GROUP. 
>> THEY ARE -- EXTRAORDINARY 
EXAMPLES OF THAT KIND OF 
POLITICS.
>> WE CAN, COUNT ON THEM FOR THE
FUTURE AND WE COUNT ON YOU FON 
YOUR SCHOLARSHIP IN TERMS OF 
LEADING US IN THE RIGHT 
DIRECTION, EDDIE GLAUDE JR.
AND THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR 
JOINING US AS WELL, THE BOOK IS 
DEMOCRACY IN BLACK: HOW RACE 
STILL ENSLAVES THE AMERICAN 
SOUL.
AND I THINK WE GOT TO SEE AND 
HEAR SOME OF THAT TODAY.
AND THANK YOU FOR JOINING US.
I'M CAROL JENKINS, THE PROGRAM 
IS "BLACK AMERICA," WE'LL SEE 
YOU THE NEXT TIME.
♪ [THEME MUSIC] ♪
