I now want to welcome you all to here
Tony Marsh and so I'm very proud on
behalf of NC Kedah introduce him who is
giving our closing lecture today Tony
has taught lectured and exhibited his
work extensively throughout Asia
United States and Europe he has been the
educational driving force behind the
ceramics program at Cal State University
at Long Beach for over 20 years
mentoring multiple generations of superb
artists tony has showed his work at the
metropoliz Art the Museum of Art and
Design in New York the LA County Museum
the Gardner Museum in Toronto and other
highly regarded art galleries and
institutions all over the world and in
2018 he along with a few select others
who are here received the United States
Arts Fellowship Award for 50,000
recognizing the most compelling artists
working and living in the United States
and all disciplines at every stage of
their career and we are honored to have
Tony give our closing thank you so much
please give them a warm welcome
okay thank you everybody I was really
nervous in the lead-up to this but now
I'm not because failure has found me and
that's what we know right I feel like
I'm in the studio now my my presentation
crashed an hour ago and I grew up
playing baseball and so I know about
failure I transitioned into working with
clay I know about failure so this is
gonna be I'm gonna wing this a little
bit because what's in my brain and
what's gonna be on the screen might be
two slightly different things so bear
with me on that please but anyway I want
to I want to thank in particularly Josh
green for thinking that I should be the
person up here to do this and and also
the Doreen Nielson for being so patient
and kind and the text here to really
wonderful and I also need to thank a few
other people some guides you know that
I've had and I've talked to and that
have helped me John Gill Bobby Silverman
Leslie Ferran Doug Jack people like that
helped me shape my ideas for what this
talk might be now we'll see what the
talk is right so I'm here really you
know after so many years in the field
I've been teaching for over thirty years
making things for over 40 and so I want
to share some of that and ways in which
I've kind of the fields shaped me and
making has shaped me and the things I've
come to understand and how I feel about
education and making and especially from
a West Coast perspective where I am in
Los Angeles Southern California I want
to start with these two gentlemen
because that's kind of where my I think
really important things started
happening for me and that's that is
Tetsu's Oshima oka and showed you helmet
on the screen and they were living
national treasures neither of course is
alive they were living national
treasures in Moscow the only Potter's to
be named such there and I had the good
fortune to be there and study with Shima
oka in the 70s and so I'm gonna tell a
few stories about that and the ways in
which that experience shaped and
prepared me so
I was an undergraduate at Cal State Long
Beach where I teach and I currently
teach and I went to a lecture by Shi
mocha because his daughter was blowing
glass at Long Beach State and he came
and so at the end of the lecture he said
very kind of abruptly if anyone would
like to come to Japan and work in my
pottery you can do that if you have the
permission today the the teacher here
and and then and then he said would
anyone like to come this is all you know
it's an audience of students and I had
just graduated and I had no debt I had
no clue about grad school no idea about
that and so I thought why not
you know and so I raised my hand and was
hoping you'd call on me and right behind
me my friend raised his hand just a
second before me and it was Greg
Escalante who went on to found
juxtaposed magazine and and so she moko
went right over the top and called on
him and I thought he was you know
calling me but he said to Greg how long
will you come and stay if you you know
if you go to Japan and Greg said I'll
stay for three months
well I immediately rose my I put my hand
up in the air and I did didn't even wait
to be called on I just said I'll stay
for three years and it was like and then
I distinctly remember putting my head in
my hands and thinking what have I just
said out loud you know what have I done
like why did I do that and and so I went
you know and I felt like the I felt like
the fool that backed into a Christie's
Auction you know scratched my head and
bought a painting or something just bike
so anyway I went from 78 to 81 it was
really brilliant very very difficult or
brilliant experience for me and she MOCA
gave me a house to live in and a salary
to support myself for three years as a
worker in in the pottery so after I was
there for a year and a half I worked
really hard I was just strictly focused
on being there you know
and I worked very hard after a year and
a half of being there he came up to me
outside one day and just said um listen
you can go home after two years you
don't have to stay for three you will
have gotten what most foreigners come to
Japan to get in two years and he knew it
was hard you know and it was very hard
for foreigners there and so but I said
immediately I just said no I don't want
to do that because I felt like
everything was speeding past me like
you're in a train and everything
everything's going by so fast you can't
understand it and it had to do with not
speaking the language as well as I
wanted to and so I just said no I'm
gonna stay for three thank you very much
you know and he liked that answer
because he liked the clarity of it and
then he also liked that I was going to
be there for another year and a half and
what it meant was he could give me more
responsibility and so that meant that I
could make I could make money for him
you know so it was good so I like that I
like the additional responsibility and
that I could contribute to this really
beautifully it was a well-oiled machine
you know everyone knew what they were
doing so it was so amazing to be there
and and then I got a raise and life was
great and and I think I think he liked
my clarity on that you know I had no
hesitation so I was there it's about a
month later he came up to me and said
please come to my house to dinner
tonight and that unnerved me a little
bit you know but I did and he said at
dinner he said look my apprentice is
graduating I don't I won't have an
assistant I'd like you to come and sit
on the wheel next to me and help me with
my work for the rest of your time here
and also do the work of the pottery and
so I was a little bit overwhelmed by
that and and and I did it and that was
truly about the hardest year of my life
and just trying to understand how to
help someone like that and yet also
being able to watch a Potter like that
work every day was really a brilliant
thing I felt like in some ways and this
is not blasphemy you know but I felt
like in some ways that in ways that I
appreciated he was a better Potter than
than Hamada
he wasn't as romantic
and sentimental miss homina and don't
get me wrong I mean I think how men it's
the greatest Potter you know and of that
era in the main game movement for a lot
of reasons but there was something about
Schumacher's work I really appreciated
its modernity and lack of sentimentality
so I was I did that and he gave me a
graduation exhibition and in Tokyo at at
the the Takumi craft gallery and I and
gave me time off to work and gave me the
whole chamber and his climbing kiln and
and so I made about six hundred pieces I
think and had a show and it was and all
together those three years were a great
clarifying experience in my life you
know and it helped me understand more
about who I was as a person and
especially displaced from west to east
you know that's a really interesting
thing to do and also as a maker in
particular and so that kind of clarity
helped me understand how to make
decisions about my life moving forward
especially when I was coming back to the
States
and I had to start making really
interesting decisions about where and
how it's gonna make this is a you know
me I mean I think most people might know
that it's a green tea cup that's handle
this and I just want to tell a little
story about it because it was very
important to me and it was the shape
that I first started making when I was
there and it was complicated because it
was so simple you know simple shapes are
sometimes hard to make and I had a model
for it I had all the tools I was
learning to throw clockwise their way
and so things were hard the clay is not
the greatest and and I couldn't get it I
just didn't I couldn't get this shape
you know I kept making the shape I
wanted to see and it gave me a model and
they were waiting for me to get it right
so they could start using it and I just
had a hard time with it you know and so
eventually the apprentice at the time I
was early it might stay there sat down
next to me and he said look take a look
at this cup he said that on this cup the
the lip that's flared is the widest
point
and the breath of the cup and he said
that's because we have a phobia about
spilling green tea on ourselves because
that green tea is as hot it's boiling in
water and we're afraid of being scalded
and he said we drink green tea four
times a day sometimes we serve green tea
to people and this is a general phobia
that's out there and this cup is
designed so that if it slips in your
hands you have a last-gasp chance to
save yourself it's not true you know but
he said it plays subconsciously in the
thinking of the user and that the cup
somehow alters the the phobia and the
psychology of the user it influences
that by its shape and I was I was in my
20s you know but I was dumbfounded by
that I thought that was remarkable you
know I thought I was just making a cup
and and but I was making something that
had a delicate cultural agreement in it
that was about influencing the
psychology of the user the shape and
that to me was profound I you know a
mundane coffee cup doesn't have that
kind of stuff encoded in it where I came
from
so all of a sudden I understood the cup
I could make it and I also thought that
I could make that cup for the rest of my
life because it felt meaningful it felt
like a profound meaningful engagement
with the culture and and isn't that kind
of all what we're looking for as makers
you don't want especially potter so you
know you don't want to just make stuff
that no one cares about no one uses no
one knows about and so I think that was
something that was important to me
because I had to think about what I was
gonna do when I came home you know and
and of course things like that kind of
created some doubt because I didn't know
if I could find that kind of a
meaningful engagement when I returned
home as a Potter in the States versus
what I was experiencing there when I was
really you know you're connected to the
culture when you're doing things like
that there's an immediacy there it's
important and I don't think comparing
pottery culture in any country is a good
idea when you're comparing it to
Japanese you know pottery culture it's
kind of Mecca
there's no way it's another story here
and this was a show of 30 platters that
were made by the workers in the pottery
and decorated by Schumacher their big
Masada you know and there's 30 they it
was in Osaka in a department store and
these exhibitions are one week long not
a month like we know and the Potter goes
with them and comes back at the end of
the week and deals with you know all
them all the fanfare does an exhibition
and then the exhibition is over and when
he came back he only brought two
platters with him he sold 28 and in 1978
those platters were priced at $5,000 so
if you do the math in 2019 that's over a
half million dollars in gross sales and
that was just a blip on the needle for
the kind of things we were making there
it was almost it almost came and went on
not unnoticeable but we were so deeply
engaged in making so much work and it
was going all over the place and she
mocha was very successful financially
and otherwise and that also became
started to become apparent that the
culture had this just wonderful deep
embrace and celebration and support for
its Potter's and it also raised the
question in my mind what's gonna happen
when I come back you know and so these
are all good questions of course you
know pottery handmade pottery in Japan
is in most households you can have a
cogent conversation with people on the
street probably it's really woven into
the fabric of daily life and in Japan
and so that means that if you're a
Potter you're engaged in a social
practice it's very meaningful and and
very important and so you know I had to
ask myself what happens when I come home
so
I might have stood a better chance of
being a Potter it I not got to Japan in
a way you know so this is the workshop
and it's beautiful space and this is
where we worked and the first wheel was
my wheel and when I first got there I
would go in at night and work at the
wheel just because I loved doing that
and after hours during this day we had
to I worked for the pottery I made
pottery shapes and such and whatever
they were doing we did it so I would go
in and essentially kind of play you know
get certain amount of clay put it on the
wheel mess around and she like I saw the
light on one night so he came over he
just looked right across the way and he
opened the door came in and said hi and
stood there and watched me for a while
and it was kind of unnerving you know
and he finally just said Tony - what are
you making and I looked up at him and I
I was kind of shocked that he asked me
because I'd never been asked what I was
making halfway through to making out it
you know I just I just finished my
undergraduate degree and I said I don't
know and he said he just looked at me
and said well if you don't know what
you're making how can you make it and
they walked out and and you know I was
gonna ask him that question when he was
making he would know you know exactly
what it's making and I was thinking well
as soon as I'm done making it on know
what I'm making but I'm not gonna know
before I start you know so it really was
just kind of pointing to the difference
in the way I was thinking and where I
came from and the way he was thinking
the way Potter's think in the way people
who are not Potter's think and so all
these things were adding up you know to
me and I felt like Schumacher's work is
was really important we all we knew it
then it became even more important in
Japan and internationally and it's
important because it's a filter and it's
a distillation you know that's what good
pottery is it's encoded you know with
the beliefs and the dreams of its
cultural place and time and of course he
was making work with clay out of his
backyard too you know and and so I had
to think about that I really admired him
he was it was a heroic kind of a
presence in my life and
so when I was ready to leave at the end
of three years I knew that I wanted to
be like him I because I admired him
deeply and and but I didn't want to make
his work and I didn't want to make
Japanese ceramics and that was clear to
me and thankfully because as I said that
process of being in Japan for three
years and having all these things come
at me and having to deal with them was a
clarifying as a clarifying three years
and so I went home very clear about the
fact that I wanted to be like him and I
wanted my work to be important and
encoded with the beliefs and the dreams
of my cultural place and time and and so
I'm I did but I didn't want to be a
Japanese football so this is a setup you
know I've been setting this up for
younger people and people in the
audience that are in the process of
trying to understand who they are as
makers you know and I think you have to
go through that clarification process
because what you're doing is you're
establishing kind of a bedrock
foundation that hopefully with
increasing clarity you know you're going
to build the house of your work on and
so how does a young person become the
maker they're supposed to become you
know first of all it's a lot of hard
work and continuity and those three
years in Japan for me you know asked a
lot of important questions and I had to
deliver answers and those young makers
need to do the same they need to bring
as much clarity as they can to bear on
their the process of learning and you
know know thyself here's one of our more
interesting problems you know we kind of
deal with this as a field and we work
side by side and university programs and
studios around the country and some
people make tea cups and some people
make figurative art some people make
sloppy crafts phenomenological
experiments that ruin the equipment and
some people make props for performative
installation and more and more you know
I mean it's a it's a it's an expanded
it's an expanded field and
the things the list of things we're able
to do is is really great and even more
so this is all done in the same studio
using the same materials taught by the
same teachers using the same equipment
side-by-side so you know it's confusing
these things have different histories
different maker strategies different
discussions that need to revolve around
them different aims and desired outcomes
you know for each of these assorted
practice so it can be really wonderful I
like that kind of creative chaos in the
studio I think that people can feed off
that but it can be confusing and I think
especially in that group the people that
are disadvantaged are the potters the
true potters that people want to you
know be Potter's just an observation
over the years so people need to define
territories of interest and enter the
discourse of their choice or their work
leads them there it's not a choice you
know that's your it's a calling and I
don't know what's more important than
that you also need to seek out kindred
spirits you know and inform and this is
gonna be a refrain but you need to form
and I'm gonna say something like fierce
community I think that the older I get
the more I understand the value of that
I don't know that I understood it even
you know ten years ago or 20 years ago
but I think that it is paramount
importance and can't be oversold the
idea that you're not by yourself you
need to find people that believe what
you believe and support what you support
and you support each other and take care
of business that way so what I'm going
to do next is kind of read you this list
and for a frame of reference when I say
crafter or Potter I'm talking about
people that are making pottery for daily
use I'm not talking about the pot isn't
as a as an object or all the other
things that pottery does you know or as
a subject I'm talking about it that's an
object for daily use and functional
ceramics utilitarian ceramics okay so
this list is a little bit polemic
just to be clear and
and it discusses the idea about the
difference between and I'm showing you
Jamarcus stuff still I'm just kind of
rambling talking as you look at images
they're not really connected so don't
don't think they are necessarily this is
for polemics this is for clarity and and
so of course I'm gonna try to clarify
that later but this is so you get that
in your own mind think where am I and
all this where do I reside where do I
come down how do I land what do I
believe what don't I believe Who am I
you know so an artist might not know
what she or he is about to make Potter's
need and want to know what they're gonna
make that was she milk this question you
know what the heck are you making
there's a certain level of anxiety and
making art while dealing with the new or
the unknown and that can be addictive
there's a certain kind of relief that
Potter's sometimes feel that comes with
tasking an entire day or week to
repetitive skill based making and that
can be addictive art is largely a
cultural critique craft pottery is a
cultural affirmation crafters protect an
honor tradition artists want to send it
to the dustbin or creates doubt craft
reassures good craft reassures crafters
Potter's surf culture artists serve
their own artistic ideas starting to get
the idea where do you land in all this
and you know who are you as a maker are
you engaged in a practice that's
attempting to move the field forward or
are you engaged in a practice that's
attempting to live up to and maintain
historically high standards in art
sometimes the subject is beauty but
that's complicated because art doesn't
like that topic and craft more often the
object they don't like it because it's
messy it's really hard to define and
it's it's too it's too subjective in
craft more often the object might engage
notions of beauty and pottery and that's
not tricky at all artists are frequently
we're focused on the meaning of what it
is they're making crafters are
frequently more focused on how it's made
what is made of how well it's made and
rather it what and how well it's made
rather than what it might mean some of
the best art grows out of an informed
discussion or disagreement with the
history of its type some of the best
craft and pottery is a celebration of
all the great traditions and informant
and grows out of an agreement with what
came before a good crafter will pack his
or her parachute with an inspection list
and that's the parachute they're gonna
use the next day and a jump and they
need to pay attention to that and you
got to get it right because it's about
self preservation an artist will just
jump out of the plane and say uh-oh
better make a chute before I hit the
ground you know it's more about risk in
your practice are you risk tolerant or
are you risk averse which do you more
believe ceramics punishes risk takers
with failure ceramics rewards risk
takers with failure ceramics punishes
people that want to come up and speak
and blow up their PowerPoint the
ceramics community appreciates the
expression of skill with the material
the fine arts community appreciates
ideas so that's the list you know and
that's that has been you know that's a
very polemic list in a way just for
clarity but it's important to understand
the distinctions between these things as
well as the similarities the crossover
territories where hybridizations taking
place in the fields of art designing
crafts and and then where you land in
all this
it requires rigor you know and that's
another community and rigor I think are
my refrains today you know and I hope
that school and the experiences that you
engage in and out of school are great
clarifying experiences for you in terms
of who you are you know and who are you
that's the question
so my friends were Potter's
and don't get me wrong I love putters
I'm just not one you know I understand
Potter's I understand pottery and I
really love it but I'm just not a Potter
in my in my spirit you know when I was
young
pottery was an anti industrial romantic
escape that so many flocked to and I'm
talking about the 60s and the 70s you
know somebody flocked to it as a
counterculture way of life completely
unprepared those were called hippies
I think Potter's today need to be
prepared they need to have a good
business business model or understand
business well somehow and there's still
romantic however the hand still matters
they better have fortitude though and
most importantly I think they need to be
culturally engaged so they can do what
Potter's have done since the beginning
of civilized time and that's to be
community builders and in the biggest
way if you're if you do the research
you'd know your history you'll
understand that there's some of the
biggest community builders that culture
is known and for lots of really
interesting reasons and they've also
been some of the most entrepreneurial
folks on the planet and you need to
remember that and know that and Potter's
today need to be bold and find ways in
which the community that they serve
we'll find them valuable useful and
necessary whether that's by identifying
local problems of Potter's have always
done and inventing ceramic solutions or
by using the vehicle of pottery to
insist on provoking thought and
hopefully some change maybe check the
work of Aaron tool Julia Galloway
especially her latest work and the
practice of Ayumi Horry a and many many
others that's pottery as meaningful
social engagement and that is a path
forward and a very interesting one and
once again build an ecosystem of support
community around you it might be one of
the more important things that you do
okay so I also kind of the second half
of this and this is where it really goes
off the
my everything goes off the map here but
I want to talk about my history as a
teacher you know and what what's going
on on the West in the West on the west
coast at Cal State Long Beach and some
of the things we've done and how I've
grown to understand where we are as a
field and this is one of our kiln yards
we're lucky the weather is good we can
work outdoors so we got a lot of kilns
outside and and I've been there for over
thirty years now and I've been inviting
artists with increasing frequent
increasing frequency since the mid 1980s
in fact to come and work along with
students and faculty and no-cost
residences for up to two years in about
the past 10 years I've favored inviting
painters and sculptors with mature
artistic vision who were trained in
other mediums but wanted to work with
clay there's a collective wisdom in our
building just because we've been through
so much with all kinds of different
makers and there's just so much activity
there all the time but that collective
wisdom is wonderful and we all kind of
own it and so that anybody in the
building who's there can make use of it
and fabricating and finishing their work
no matter how I so tarik that work is
we'll give it a good shot and I do
encourage artists to be ambitious
sometimes I regret it and to take
advantage of our special equipment and
our facilities and what we know and I
encourage them to make work that they
couldn't or otherwise wouldn't make if
they weren't there and when someone
presents me with a crazy idea I've taken
no out of my vocabulary I just don't say
no and the overly dogmatic crafter in me
wants to say no that can't be done
that's a bad idea you know but
instinctively I don't know and we just
try to find a way around that and I tell
them you know if you don't mind a little
failure failure along the way you know
we may find a way to get this done you
know so that's kind of the approach I've
taken and working with lots of different
people in 2017 we institutionalized what
you see up there the CCC the Center for
contemporary ceramics on campus after
many years of running it
of underground which I preferred to be
honest with you and the goal is simple
identify artists whom we think can
assist in growing in who we think we can
assist in growing the ambition in the
outcome of their work and conversely
those whom we feel will model valuable
artistic behavior and our studios to the
students it's very it's kind of organic
so the the artists benefit it's it's not
structured it's not academically
structured you know so artists benefit
they get to come use great equipment for
free they engage other artists there
which is of benefit many times helps
them build community and
cross-pollination of ideas and they also
it's really great for our students
because our students work side by side
with these artists and sometimes are
hired by them to help them create bodies
of work that are for exhibition and
that's all over the world you know so
it's win-win-win I think the field also
benefits because especially in Southern
California we want to bump the needle
and make ceramic art more present and
more viable and more exciting so I'm
gonna be showing slides images of work a
fairly recent artist because I didn't
have an iPhone on me 25 years ago and
now I walk around just popping pictures
all the times great but a lot of times I
mean so much stuff happened there so
many people have been through over the
years and unfortunately it wasn't really
documented well if at all so everything
you see is mostly relatively fresh you
know but there's a few older images I
was able to find but again I'm just
going to be talking through my ideas
however Scramble they are now and
showing images that I'm not going to be
addressing per se but there are images
of artists who have worked there and the
name is up and sometimes the gallery
affiliation or places they made work for
exhibition and so you know that's you'll
be looking and listening and different
to different things really so there's
things you notice you know when you work
with a lot of artists the most
successful artists I know are the
hardest-working people I know Pierre
and some of the most notable art being
made today using clay that's recognized
by those outside of our community is
being made by artists who are not
trained in the field you know whether we
like that or not on the whole these
folks are a different class of
personality type then I'm accustomed to
being around and ceramics we're so
communal and we've been largely
conditioned by our respectful crafts
culture because we've got to be in the
building together right
the equipment's there you go to the
equipment sculptors painters
photographers don't go to they don't
have to be together they don't even want
to be together what we do so we've got a
respectful crafts culture and these
artists come in there and they're less
communal and they're really disruptors
you know so that sometimes is rough for
us you know but I think it's interesting
and they're generally very open they're
very curious about what they're doing
they have a much higher tolerance for
risk and failure they're thinking about
making it was never shaped by the do's
and don'ts of crafts Dogma you know and
so that that you know frequently
accompanies our education and ceramics
and so I think that their influence in
our studio is an important and a
necessary thing that's healthy and and
so that's why it's it's been there I
feel like we the faculty certainly know
how to present ceramics but to offer the
flip side of how other people might
think about things just so we have a
really diverse discussion in the studio
having these people there is very very
valuable to us I think the thing that's
really interesting about them too is
that they they they don't mess around
you know their priorities are set to
favor
optimal studio conditions and they don't
care about many other things and they
don't they don't play you know and to me
the thing that's really beautiful is
that they're regularly willing to enter
into absurd artistic schemes without
first knowing that they're going to be
successful and also without knowing that
there's going to be any reward for it
whatsoever
and I think that's really important too
you know and these folks are human
though you know they suffer in varying
degrees from the fear of failure or the
fear of success that we all do but I've
noticed that they typically move forward
anyway it doesn't really matter it's
like they have no choice the the fire
behind them is bigger than the fire in
front of them you know and it boils down
to this really as I've seen it over the
years those that want to make make and
those that don't find something better
to do and once again the thing that
keeps coming back to me that's very
important that's why I keep saying that
is they build and maintain strong
connectivity to a support of arts
ecosystem especially these people
outside the studio and that serves them
well they open their arms to the
universe I don't know how to say it any
other way
it sounds a little new-age you know but
they do they just open their arms to the
universe and they say yes a great deal
more than they say no and they answer
their phone it's more important than you
think so
Ceramics punishes risk takers but many
of these artists are not risk-averse so
they're not drawn back into coloring
between the lines when things fail as
they inevitably do in ceramics and you
know that is also an interesting lesson
for our students they're actually
excited by it there's a lot of they're
excited by failure they see something go
wrong it's just a whole new raft of
opportunities for them they're energized
and excited by it not demoralize that
all their works been ruined so a
question you know do you want to be
relevant are you interested in being
relevant okay I heard you all answer
so then the question is what artistic or
craft discussion do you want to be part
of you know and that's in your work
what discourse might you ultimately help
shape with your work and your ideas and
conversely by the way that discourse
shapes you too and so it's it's it's a
rich it's a rich environment to be in
but you know you need you need to
eventually boil it down to that if you
want to be relevant I can speak to what
I've seen happen on the west coast in
Los Angeles and the time I've been there
and I think it's kind of extraordinary
there used to be a natural gallery home
for most ceramic art and if you were
interested in presenting your work and
ceramics it generally had to happen
there you know there were medium
specific galleries the champions for
Emma card and with a few exceptions now
most everywhere those galleries are
disappearing unfortunately the change
has been a long time in coming
but seriously underway for about the
past ten years and accelerate it in
about the past five in my opinion
currently one would be hard-pressed to
find a contemporary fine art gallery in
Los Angeles perhaps New York as well
that does not exhibit art made of clay
and carry the work of several artists
who do I still think there's a quota on
us you know I don't see galleries
counting painters you know how many
painters are we carrying we can only
have three clay people it's a growing
thing and and actually I'm very excited
by it if it's any barometer to go
gouging gallery which you may have heard
of or not a multinational corporate
institutional conglomeration which
operates 15 galleries around the world
has an operating budget of a billion
dollars every year carries maybe five
which I think's obscene by the way I
just want to add that but it carries
five maybe six artists who use art who
use claim to make art this recalibration
is underway I don't think that it's a
fad or a trend that's going to go into
reverse and take us back to where we
were nothing
long ago art made of clay has shown up
frequent with frequency at the Whitney
being on the Venice Biennale and other
blue-chip arts events around the globe
like never before it's kind of shocking
to me after watching it for so long it's
one of the most powerful developments to
occur in my adult lifetime in the field
is this you know if any any of you
wishes to exhibit your art made of clay
in Southern California I speak about
that because I know it or even perhaps
New York and hopefully increasingly
anywhere you will now this is the thing
you'll now need to compete with other
artists to do that that's a big deal
yeah not just other folks for working
with clay and if you once base an
attention that's the way it is I'm not
sure if our schools are prepared to help
students understand how to do that yet
but there's a shift in that too
I think it's one of the most exciting
developments in the evolution of
contemporary American ceramics in my
opinion and it will present before
unattainable opportunities to many more
people and those people though you've
got to be ready for that and I do think
it could change it could change the
shape in the perception and the
orientation of how what we know about
ceramics in the future however here's
the thing it's not gonna be available to
everybody
unfortunately it's really because it's
the same thing as true for painters and
sculptors you know you don't just
because you make it doesn't mean you get
to show it you know it's gonna require I
think a different level of rigor both in
and outside the studio that's what it's
going to require and there's a strain of
anti-intellectual persistence in our
field that are not going to benefit very
many people unless of course that
becomes some kind of defensible artistic
strategy you know
I think it's really popular it's easy to
lay this anti intellectual anti
intellectual anti intellectualism at the
doorstep of Pete focus and yes he
deserves a heap of it I think because of
the way he behaved you know but I felt
I've always felt like you know I don't
disagree with that entirely I felt like
he was kind of more symptomatic than he
was causal and I feel this way also that
collectively were a nation of very sweet
people and I'm grateful for that
actually and working with clay by nature
offers us a primary sensual physically
challenging kinesthetic experience with
the material that records action and
emotional primacy and offers
experiential learning like no other
material aren't making material painting
for instance is mostly cerebral it
exists in the mind it's an illusion and
it's from the wrists on it's not that
physical unless you're Jackson Pollock
or something
so painting tends to attract people who
are probably more interested in a more
highly intellectualize art making
experience and I'm not certain I'm not
sure the clay attracts the personality
types that are that interested in a
deeply intellectual engagement it does
some for sure of course you know I'm not
saying we're not we're not smart you
know I'm not saying that I'm just trying
to understand these things as I've
watched them the kinds of people that
come through my classroom year after
year after year and then I work with in
the arts year after year and understand
why they're attracted to that material
and I think that's part of it I think
plus we've got deep roots in craft
culture you know and that may also begin
to explain our resistance to
intellectualizing our experience in the
way that other artists intellectualize
their experience so I think those that
harness all that and bring a higher
degree of intellectual rigor to their
practice are much more likely to succeed
in the art world it's opening its doors
to clay and so let me be clear about
that what I'm what I'm not saying is you
have to I'm not saying that the
intellectual part has got to come first
I think that what you need to do
if that's not the case for you is make a
lot of work and then there's going to be
a certain amount of evidence that is
what your work is about and you need to
understand how to divine into that and
be able to discuss it and identify it
and kind of know where your work lands
on the spectrum of all things of its
type that have been made so that you
have a sense about it's what it is and
what its place is in its in the history
of its type so that you can talk about
it intelligently and deal with it and
frame it you know and I think that's
what art it requires you know be careful
what you wish for you know I talked to
Steve Lee about this kind of stuff all
the time and he's like yeah you really
want to hang out with us people you know
be careful what you wish for
something that's also very important
that I'm talking about here is that when
you write or speak about your art think
about how you assign language to your
work words really matter in that world
and as much as possible each maker
should try to control the narrative and
certainly one has opportunities to do
that more so now than ever with kind of
the social media platforms that are out
there and waiting for you to use the
word descaling comes up all the time or
we tired of that word yet sometimes I
get tired of it but I'm just kind of
interested in all this stuff so the deal
is when the issues of high skill set
craft are generally removed from the
discussion by low skill set work it kind
of takes part of the discussion away
when you're talking about this sloppy
craft or descaled work you know whatever
you want to call it and so you're not
talking about the craft or how it was
made because that's not amazing and
really all that's left is to talk about
artistic ideas or the expression of
ideas or something like that you really
only have an art discussion left so
therefore it's art I think it's a
brilliant strategy you know that the
conversations not derailed by craft
that doesn't make a good art by the way
so but it but it's it's a I think that's
kind of what's happened what they
skilling and the way it's been accepted
and generally by the art world one that
one of the problems at times with high
skill set craft is that skill becomes
the content and it renders the subject
matter as less relevant and whatever the
subject matter might have been and
simply a foil for the exercise in the
virtuoso
skills and the arts community is not as
interested in somebody's virtuoso skill
set they're interested in ideas they
already assume that artists are skilled
it's not that they're not concerned with
that so it's the value and the relevancy
of ideas and artistic expression
that's where the discussion is with them
we're impressed by that we're impressed
by high skill set craft because we know
how hard it is to control this material
you know and we want to celebrate all
those victories when we see them but
there are the contemporary fine art
world is not always so interested in
that I want to say a few things about
technology and you know because we've
watched this just tremendous revolution
in our world in general and it's also in
art and in ceramics and I think I saw a
Garrick rim here scared here somewhere
there she is yeah so technology is
interesting and I think there's a lot of
money on schools available for
technology it's easy money and there's a
lot of interest in it because kids are
growing up but a phone in their hand
computer in their hand and I've kept an
open mind about it I'm 65 now all right
we'll be this year so I'm not I'm not
always as in sync as everybody but I've
kept an open mind about the interface of
technology and hands off creating in the
studio because I think the day will
arrive I'm not sure it's here yet
and I don't maybe I don't follow closely
enough but I'm sure the day is gonna
arrive when a maker will make something
make work and that's gonna force the
field to stop turn their head and pay
attention and you know when that thing's
been fabricated by a programmed piece of
high-tech equipment I think it's
difficult it
so much tedium you know when you've got
a program something and just watch it
work you know it's amazing in a way but
it's also there's tedium there it's
difficult and it's hard I think for that
subset to compete with the primacy and
the intimacy and the excitement of
putting an unruly material in the hands
of an idiosyncratic maker you know
that's exciting
so hopefully the person who's gonna
change everything has already been born
and working on it and perhaps as this
all shakes out it's an orientation in
ceramics that's gonna tilt more towards
naturally towards design and by the way
I do not take Dell Harold lightly I
think he's very important and very kind
of a wonderful man and a wonderful maker
too I've always felt that rocku never
really rose above the status of kind of
an amazing party trick and I hope the
future sorry if you guys love rock goo
anyone out there I hope that the future
is not going to hold the same fate for
digitally programmable fabrication and
clay amazing party trick status I hope
it goes better than that I want to talk
about power and influence it's really an
interesting shift there and it's not
that long ago it was a relatively small
group of experts gallerists magazine and
book publishers collectors and a small
handful of writers who largely decided
what the top of the field looked like
pretty amazing they got to say who and
what was exhibited which images were
delivered to the public in books
magazine advertisements posters
exhibition invitations catalogs and the
like and the message was largely
controlled by them in to some degree
this influenced which works were
institutionally acquired and also which
works became iconic you know in our
field collectively these folks had a lot
to do with shaping the Canon there's
there's no evil conspiracy there and
Garth doesn't help dressing like that
but
that's just the way that it worked you
know I really mean it there's no
conspiracies nothing evil about it a lot
of people didn't like the way it went
but that's the way you know that's the
way it always is and that's just the way
it worked everything had to filter up
through a select group of taste makers
and outside of their presentation back
to us it was extremely hard to know what
was going on broadly in the field unless
you travel constantly with your eyes
open all the time and I say thank God
for these people because they cared you
know nobody was getting wealthy on it it
was largely passion driven and
collectively they kind of put us on the
map but that model for us wasn't gonna
hold a few more makers here Megan Smyth
I'm not Megan's here and I think now
more than there are custom some of these
folks are fighting for oxygen and like
we all are and I don't think that's
unhealthy at all I think it's a good
thing social media platforms have been a
great democratizing force in my opinion
walls are crumbling silos the walls are
crumbling ceramic arts culture is being
built more horizontally and vertically
and things don't filter up in the same
way that they used to I think
Instagram is one of the keys to this
great leveler of influence and our field
is increasingly decentralized and
becoming horizontal it's kind of a
mirror to the world we live in in a way
of course the new landscape we find
ourselves in includes pop-up storefront
exhibits laptop publishable capability
online virtual galleries and constantly
new vehicles for comers private
nonprofit flex spaces waiting for
creative proposals and self-appointed
social media experts who will show you
the way you know there's artists run
projects and of course every gallery
result now is working with artists who
use clay and it's quite a menu and a
smorgasbord compared to 20 years ago
even and the hybridization of all these
things might make one dizzy you know or
excited you know
and how can i how can I say this if you
can't find the opportunity in all this
you're probably being too passive say it
kindly
you're being too passive you should you
need to wake up if you think there's not
enough opportunity out there I'm not
sure how ceramic magazines a staple in
the field not that long ago or coping
how can an image in a monthly magazine
compete with the immediacy of a
minute-to-minute stream of the latest
images from around the world that's
custom tailored on a daily basis by the
viewers interests and whims and not to
mention you can keep the damn thing in
your pocket and check it a hundred times
a day if you want how do they compete
with that and further those feeds are
being filled in open competition for
attention with the wisdom or the
nonsense of the anonymous the unknown
the gnome and the social media
influences of course the whole thing is
genius
really and I think everybody should be
on it and and guess what it's free I
mean it's not really free yeah I think
you pay a big price for it but not money
so here's the thing you know if you're
interested in a large number of
followers there's ways to accomplish
that there's algorithms you can follow
in these things you can do if you're
interested in quality followers I think
you need to be rigorous with your feet
and basically what you need to do is
enlighten people and then interesting
people will be attracted to that
perhaps the magazine's will need to do
what Instagram doesn't do well and
that's create context historical and
otherwise Kim Dickey was a resident with
us and a long time ago when we didn't
have cameras around but I found this
image and I hope it's right I hope it's
not the right epoch I think it is so
history you know my fear is that the
importance of history is slipping and
that's reinforced by the way that
Instagram works in offering viewers a
continual stream of the new and the
exciting that's what America is addicted
to and in love with the new you know and
what comes into your feed moment a
moment is what matters what's downstream
is washed out to the ocean to the cosmos
and it's done and of little relevance
the back feet and anybody's Instagram
account
is almost hardly ever looked at
instagrams my story and snapchat
celebrate the erasure of digital history
you know I think young young folks think
that digital history is problematic I
mean a lot of people are starting to
think it's problematic but and so I
worry about history and the relevance of
history and things why is that worth
mentioning to me because as a maker I
think to truly enter any meaningful
discourse with rigor one absolutely
needs to be at least aware of the deep
and more recent histories of the
artistic territory that you're mining
and that's just for starters you need to
know what you agree and disagree with so
you can enter into meaningful
conversations or arguments with those
histories through your work your works
the argument right your works the
proposition the agreement the
disagreement or the argument and by the
way you don't just take the class in
this in school and then you get it
building and breaking arguments and
agreements and learning about history in
your practice as it relates to your work
is a serious lifetimes work it takes a
lot of commitment and a lot of rigor a
word of warning about Instagram I think
the galleries used to control the image
and the message on behalf of artists in
measured and strategic ways they're pros
at it this is their business now an
artist can become a 24/7 365 uncensored
self promotional machine and the old
school in me says don't allow your work
to become an overexposed prop for your
Instagram feed that is then the tail
wagging the dog but the audience isn't
small anymore or fixed like it used to
be it keeps expanding
that's what Instagram allows you so
maybe the jury's out on that but maybe
I'm wrong
importantly again
Instagram offers a sense of community
support recognition perhaps celebrity
and potentially the benefits of Commerce
and really all of the trappings of the
external reward system that artists need
it's I don't think it's just me but
maybe more importantly you need the
internal rewards
of discovery that being curious and
creative offer I think that's the
lifeline the lifeblood and the source of
energy and renewal as a maker and you
need that so you need you need to have
are we back yeah I was gonna get out
here and just belt it out you know so
where was I
it's it's it's really about this balance
between the internal needs of a maker
and the external needs of a maker you
got to have both you know and you got to
keep them in equilibrium it's a delicate
ecosystem and it's easy to forget one or
the other or move or rush to one of the
other rush to all the external rewards
that Instagram offers as opposed to
remembering that you need to nourish the
internal and keep keep that in balance
that's where your lifeblood is right
that's how you get the best outcomes in
your practice teaching I'm gonna say a
few things about teaching us this all
one's down you know and thank you all
the teachers out there who have the
responsibility of building the cosmology
of an educational program no matter how
good the facility how deep and
comprehensive the curriculum how shiny
everything is is still all about people
it's people to people that's what
matters so build a culture where in some
fashion everybody teaches everybody
learns understand that the demographics
of many university programs are changing
faster than the turnover and faculty and
it's imperative that the needs of
current and future generations of
students are understood and met like
they always have been about four or five
semesters ago I had a class and and when
I called roll for the first day I
checked it before we started class I had
students from nine different countries
in 124 student class and that's the new
normal for us you know at Cal State Long
Beach State College and I think it's a
beautiful thing but yeah that's right
yeah don't that's where it's going and
those needs need to be met they'd really
do we need to work harder than ever to
open doors and assist those that need
help and we need to plug gaps in the
academic model I'm not a true believer
and in all academics I don't think that
that will prepare people for what
they're gonna face when they're done
there you need to have all kinds of
programming that's why the CCC exists
that's why over the last 25 years we've
sent 300 students abroad to study not in
study abroad but to just travel on their
own not a non-academic experience the
university doesn't let us do it anymore
there it's too risky to do that just to
send people out in the world you know
and pay for it
because then we're liable but we have so
many students that are first-generation
to college and a lot of them never been
on an airplane you know my god never
been out of the country never been out
of California and Americans more than
ever I think need to get off the rock
and see how other people think and live
and dream
so I think those kind of things where
you've got the energy to do it they need
to be built into an education so you're
really preparing people as best you can
you give them more than they bargained
for
and it's and honestly you know for me it
was never hard to raise money for people
like that to stand up and talk about
that kind of thing is is great and
people love it and want to help actually
and what they don't need are more
abstract academics and their program
they need real-life experiences like
that and like working with artists so in
my opinion educators are not just hired
to show up and teach a subject I could
care less about just teaching the
subject and then issue degrees in a
Halloween costume
oops might being too harsh all right
career teacher you know but but that's
the way I feel they need to use the
institution to build a model for
education that helps students develop
talent their natural talent and prepare
them for what they're going to be faced
with when they leave finish their formal
education and their real one begins you
know
on my campus too many teachers where
their prefix titles as badges of power
professor dr. blah blah blah I think for
me as is vastly more interesting and
powerful actually and constructive to be
influential than it is to be powerful
than just to simply acquire power
accumulate power but the problem with
that is the people that seek power on
campuses anyway I'm just going to leave
it at my on my campus is what I've seen
over the years what they do is is they
act when everybody's looking you know
and I think people that want to be
influential are always acting especially
when people aren't looking and doing
things that need to be done to help
people and influence the lives of
students and I think I've only ever had
one preeminent goal in mind and I
encourage everyone to think some of the
same thoughts and that is to use the
full bearing of the institution to offer
students more than they paid for and
simply stated you want to change lives
that's really what it's all about
so I've put a lot on the table you guys
are gonna have to sort through all that
stuff my last words open your arms to
the universe answer your phones don't
drink too much of anybody's kool-aid out
there build precious powerful
communities and bring more rigor to
whatever you do and safe travels and
thank you
