this is Jocko podcast number 74 with
echo Charles and me Jocko Willick good
evening echo good evening now I always
dug music and I'm pretty sure it started
when my dad would play Hank Williams
senior on the 8-track in his I think it
was a 1971 Barracuda and he played that
track that tape just over and over again
and I still know those songs by heart
and then you know I God that was when I
was a little kid and then I got a little
bit older and like a lot of kids all of
a sudden I was listening to the Beatles
sure
Elvis thought they were great I still
think that song while my guitar gently
weeps is a good song but that a war out
kind of quickly and it was something
wasn't there in that music something
just wasn't quite there the music didn't
sound how I felt
and then in 1980 ac/dc back in black
came out and it was popular right it was
popular and so it went into my ears at
some point and I said dang alright
better closer
warmer we're getting there and then I
washed around in the Hard Rock for a
while
Hendrix Led Zeppelin and I can't help
throwing it on a little Jack Black when
I say that if you watch that tribute
that he did to them and that you know
some of the kids that I hung around with
in New England they rode that train down
to hip edom you know we're talking
crosby Stills and Nash and Janis Joplin
and the Grateful Dead and all that I
couldn't relate wasn't there didn't get
there
didn't seem to reflect the world that I
was beginning to see myself I got on the
other train matter and we're talking
about Van Halen yes this is the 1980s
you know if you were a kid in America
age 13 we got issued the album 1984 by
Van Halen that was just a given you are
gonna get that that is your diver down
boom you need to listen to this this is
rock and roll people
this is Eddie Van Halen listen to that
guitar so eruption listen again do it
again
Iron Maiden right actual song called
trooper you know you got it
listen to that when you're a kid and so
now I'm heading in the right direction
I'm feeling it starting to reflect what
things are like in my head and then
there was that day where I got an album
called Black Sabbath by a band called
Black Sabbath and this first song is
also called Black Sabbath and I put that
on and boom I had found something that
sounded like I was thinking and from
there I was definitely on the right
train then it was Motorhead and soon
after the Ramones boom and then that
leads to the Sex Pistols because you're
just going harder that's what you do
that's what I was doing what's a little
bit harder than that what's a little bit
harder than that Sex Pistols bodies no
feelings they're singing songs no
feelings okay I hear what you're saying
louder more anger and then finally we
get to Black Flag my war side to still
one of my all-time favorites Minor
Threat get a hold of a little band
another little band from DC called the
Bad Brains some Detroit hardcore
negative approach
and then so I was you know I was kind of
in the game right I was there and so 87
rolls around and one of my friends who
is actually more of a metalhead at this
time he gives me a cassette tape because
it's a turkey the day when you were just
going to have to listen to cassette
tapes and they were usually dubbed 47
times from somebody else but this was
the real tape man this is the real deal
they're in an actual original with the
full cover on it everything and the
cover of this tape was just a giant
mushroom cloud of death and destruction
and above the mushroom cloud in large
old English script blazing across the
top it said cro-mags okay and then
underneath the mushroom cloud and a
little bit smaller script and Old
English it said at the age of quarrel
okay so I put in my tape deck and I
press play and the first track it hit me
like a train and it's the first track
was called we got an O and let me just
tell you the lyrics struggling in the
streets just trying to survive searching
for the truth just to keep us alive
gotta break these chat shackles got to
break these chains the only way we'll do
it is if we use our brains there's got
to be some meaning to the purpose of
life I know there must be more than the
struggle and strife looking for the
answers and I need a clue but my mind is
so disturbed now what do I do
now I can tell you I was not struggling
in the streets but like most teenage
kids I did feel some shackles right feel
the shackles of things and I was looking
for answers and I needed a clue and so I
was like hmm
yeah we're onto something the next title
track had me a little worried a little
concerned because you know like I said
there was a lot of kids who'd taken the
hippy route and so I was not into that
the next song title had me a little
concerned it was the song was called
world peace as I was kind of low uh red
flag and then I listened to lyrics
lyrics all you hippies better state
start to face reality are you all your
far-fetched dreams of anarchy to better
start to see things the way they are
because the way things are going they
won't be going far world peace can't be
done
it just can't exist world peace can't be
done anarchy is a mess okay and the rest
of the album kept up that assault on my
brain on my attitude and that was it I
had found something called hardcore
music and it and I never really left it
and I listened to cro-mags and a ton of
other hardcore bands from that time
until now and that's pretty much
essentially the soundtrack of much of my
life and I had a pretty big influence on
me and it was an attitude that I kept
throughout my life and it was my own
interpretation I can tell you that right
now is my own kind of you know you
listen to the lyrics and you kind of
apply what it means in your world that's
what I did which to me was pretty simple
because to me
hardcore meant hardcore that's what good
that's pretty simple
hardcore everything you do work hard be
aggressive don't back down fight for
what you believe in hold the line and
that's kind of what I did in my life and
I don't know like a year ago or
something somebody asked me something
about you know on on the interwebs
someone said oh you what what what band
should I listen to they know I said Oh
bah blah blah cro-mags you know check
them out whatever and you might want to
do that and eventually you know it's the
internet is an incredible thing and
eventually I
a the founding member of the crow max
guy by the name of Holly Flanagan yeah
he like reached out said hey what's up
man how you doing and I had heard over
the years you know that Harley was a
jujitsu guy black belt in jujitsu and so
you know he just kind of hit me up and
eventually you know we were talking and
he said hey I got a book coming out send
it to and I said cool yeah and he said
man the books crazy and I was kind of
like yeah you know yeah I know man cuz
you know house around that school I get
it it's kind of crazy and he's like no
no no man it's it's crazy and I said
okay cool
so he sent it to me and then I read the
book and damn just kind I had I had no
idea actually I had a semblance of an
idea you know cuz in the hardcore scene
people know each other I mean like you
know that you know you after show you
talk to everyone and it's the band
members it's people everyone kind of
knows each other so I'd heard stories
but the book when the reality behind the
stories was was way more intense and
crazier than I could have thought it was
and there was one point when I was
reading the book I'm gonna read a little
excerpt right now and it said this this
is Harley when I started working on this
book I was staying in a hotel in the red
light district in in Amsterdam the
working title was the longest suicide
note ever written I was trying to
document the madness from as far back as
I can remember until the end the story
of my life as an insane suicidal Joyride
of rock and roll depravity and demise
until the final crash and burned it was
going to be a book that all the great
fuck-ups never got to write because they
died first
so I began working on it
I figured the end would have come sooner
than later but I was wrong
and once I got done reading the book I I
reached out to Harley and I said hey man
there's a lot in this book that's crazy
and the fact that you lived through it
the fact that you got through it and the
fact that you got to the position that
you're in now with your life I think a
lot of people can learn from it and it'd
be awesome if you come on the podcast
and Harley said let's do it
so Harley Flanagan welcome to the show
that's it's great to be here thank you
for having me on
yeah it's awesome and I saw you several
times when I was a kid and we were
trying to figure out names of clubs
where I saw you but that was pretty cool
and it's pretty cool to be sitting here
I guess we're talking about 30 years
later you know cuz I was seeing you when
I was in my teens 14 13 15 around there
and here we are pretty amazing trip
we've had since done yeah yes and
usually I when I ask people hey you know
talk about where you come from quickly
and kind of where you grew up and we
don't spend a lot of time there because
most people didn't really do anything
significant that had any long-term
impact on their lives when they're like
8 9 10 years old right but for you I
mean when you were 8 9 10 years old
shit was already crazy yeah yeah it was
pretty much crazy from the start yeah
I'm gonna I'm gonna just kind of pull a
little something here out of the book
just to give a little bit of background
this is from Harley's book hardcore life
of my own
I was born at San Francisco General
Hospital on March 8th 1967 at the start
of the summer of love my mom's name is
Rose Marie
falou Phil you fell you and my dad's
name was Harley Wayne Walker Flanagan my
mom was a hippie my dad was a drifter
and somehow the paths crossed before the
hippy days my mom was into all the early
rock and roll stuff Motown and pretty
much all the music that was happening
when she was young her father one fell
you guess one fill you wan fell you came
from the dr the dominican republic came
to america through ellis island by
himself when he was in his early teens
and one of the first wasn't one of the
first Dominicans to join the United
States Army served in World War two
where he played in the military band
that's how he got his citizenship by
serving in the military he was one of
the funniest people I ever knew he
worked all kinds of different jobs
everything from building a building
super to a longshoreman he was a
charming guy with a thick Spanish accent
so that's the beginnings do you speak
any Spanish curse a little bit that
wasn't it so you got that yeah yeah now
you continue on my mom was a go-go
dancer and like so many people she was
caught up in the whole drug culture of
the 60s when I was a kid she was still a
stripper I remember going to work with
her a few times when I was little that
was weird looking back on it now there
was even a short period of time when she
was a dominatrix but that was later my
dad left home for good around the same
age as me maybe 14 or 15 and started
riding freight trains
he liked to live from moment to moment
and from everything I've heard he had a
serious drug and alcohol issues most of
his life he was always in and out of
prison it's hard to accept that your dad
chose heroin and alcohol over you it
really does kind of hurt even now I
guess that might be one of the reasons
why I turned out the way I did my mom
and me did a lot of hitchhiking and
stayed with a lot of different people a
lot of crazy should happen on those
trips at one point a friend of hers was
going to Europe and asked do you want to
come and my mom was like I'm getting the
fuck out of here she did and I went with
her
I was probably around three or four that
was that I never saw my father again
a state in Europe pretty much until I
was about ten but I come back to the
states every year or so we settled down
in Denmark 1971 Denmark and Danish
culture are very wholesome it's a great
place to grow up but of course there's
an underside too in the 60s and in my
case the late 60s and 70s it was cool in
certain aspects and wasn't so cool and
others you had all these people fucked
up on drugs and all the free love
everybody's fucking everybody and it's
not really the best environment for a
kid to grow up in and as cool as some of
the things and a lot of the people were
a lot of them were at least some of them
were just fucking lost and yeah all the
kids were wild what do you expect I mean
we were just in imitating the grown-ups
so as a result I was getting laid and
doing all kinds of other crazy shit
before I even reached puberty you
basically had a lot of little kids is
going off you got all these hippie kids
with their hippie parents seeing all
kinds of craziness adults running around
naked people doing drugs being insane
that shit rubs off on kids damn yeah
did you completely think that was normal
at the time we got just the way the
world was well it's the way my world was
I didn't realize really that we were so
different from the rest of society until
my parents tried to put me into a
regular school and of course I could
start getting fucked with a lot by the
kids because I had long hair and you
know I didn't I didn't really fit in and
my parents looked like freaks and that
was when it really hit me it was also I
went from being at that hippie school to
being in a very strict school in Denmark
which was like real old-school and very
rigid so it was total
whole queue here and he's like what the
fuck you know and so I started cutting
school a lot and going back to the free
school to visit all my friends there and
just hang out and that free school
that's that's where you started me
that's where he started playing pretty
much you know I mean I was always into
music that was really the first place
that facilitated it you know like they
that was one of the cool things about
that school was they really pushed the
arts you know they whatever the kids
interests were they would give you the
ability to pursue that unfortunately
they were also very lack so if like you
didn't have the interest in pursuing
math or whatever they'd be like oh well
you know he's just not interested in it
you know he wants to be a musician and
it's like you know as me as we all know
as parents is like you know fuck that
you need to image you need to do your
math you need to know your shit you need
to that you'd not use your brain you
know it's not just about you know
gratifying your artistic and creative
interests because that's not going to
always pay your fucking bills yeah so no
but it was it was cool it was it was
cool in certain ways whether I said you
know the my math teacher he was actually
from the state she was from the promise
and he was a jazz drummer and played
stand-up bass and he really was a big
inspiration on me musically and so you
know it gave me some tools you know that
came in handy later in life yeah for
sure
so you were listening to actually got
your first gigs in like like you were
playing little Santana covers yeah in
the gang covered I was in my school band
yeah my school band was cool they would
let yeah yeah no they were fucking legit
I mean we were like you know funky stuff
you know I mean we were playing but like
I said that my math teacher he was one
of the band leaders so you know you got
a guy from the Bronx who's a jazz - he's
going to be teaching all these little
Danish kids musically what's really
going on right because in Denmark at the
time things that you know Abba aquas
would get you know so you know I mean so
it was like
fuck you know so yeah my school was cool
as far as music and counterculture and
all that shit but then you know then
well as you may have seen in the book
really then when my mother of all people
turned me on to the Sex Pistols that's
what really that changed everything
there me you know thanks mom that was uh
that was that was in Iowa
oh yeah we heard the Sex Pistols oh yeah
yeah changed everything for me
and and at that time like you got one
second he said I remember coming off
stage you're playing with the band that
I think the school band at this point I
remember coming off stage one night
these girls know yeah that I was hanging
out with they were like you know that
lady you came with which was your mom
she's in the bathroom she's not feeling
too good I went in the bathroom and my
mom was throwing up all over the place
that kind of shit was a kind of come
down yeah that's reality that after a
lot of mom hold yeah yeah it's fucked up
you know little things like that they
stay with you forever
but um you know to uh she did she did
sober up eventually and you know she
sobered up for about in the 80s until
the day she died she was clean and uh
you know yeah you know people fall
victim to journalists alcohol and
sometimes it's hard to pull yourself out
you know but eventually she did you know
unfortunately I had to witness a lot of
real ridiculous shit but um you know I
don't think there's such a thing as a
perfect parent you know no no no doubt
about that and your mom she did like you
said she gets you the Sex Pistols well
yeah he'd like you said in here you said
well that was that yeah yeah it's almost
conscious what I was saying here we go
go into your book here until that point
I hung around with all these little
hippie kids I had long ass hair so we
were really already little freaks we'd
walk around the streets people would
give us looks and trip out on us our
parents and teachers had long hair and
beards and shit like that but
then punk rock came about and this was
more appropriate for me it wasn't all
peace and love it was just more me the
music was raw and the imagery and the
craziness appealed to me it was
energetic and a big factor for me was
you didn't have to inspire to be Jimi
Hendrix you'd have to be Carlos Santana
so you you listened that music and you'd
say you know what I can just play it I
couldn't I can do this you can play that
I know this I can have fun and do this
shit like this is you know you don't
need to Rack your brain to figure out
how to do this you can just do it you
know it's your power chord yam and you
know it's like you just need some sanity
man that's all you need man that's all
you fucking me it was funny is I always
tell people this about music if you go
to a guitar store anywhere in America
and you put up a little flyer in there
that says you know I need someone that
can play every note on the following
three albums you know and you pick
complex you pick rush and cart and
they're a - it'll be said Obie you'll
get ten people that'll say yeah I can
play all that stuff I'll play a play for
you right now but there's bill and all
those guys made a lot of those guys
unless they have that thing less they
have that sincerity that you're talking
about and they have that little spark of
creativity it doesn't matter how
technically you are you don't have that
heart you could be technically amazing
and have not one ounce of inspiration in
here fucking body you know and I mean
look man you know the Ramones were you
know some of the worst greatest
musicians ever you know those guys could
barely fucking play and they wrote some
so they wrote songs that are still
anthems you know songs that you will
still hear played it like major sports
arenas or and whatever I mean you know
yeah you know musics fucking weird thing
that it is it is and not yet your first
band called Little Big Boss we hadn't
reference to you I mean away if we must
have a hero now it must have been
because the other two guys in the band
were adults and they named the band so
looking back they probably named it
after me because I was like I guess
already
a tyrant to play with you know I do
playing drums at yeah yeah hammering on
the door yeah and then you guys move
back to back to New York yeah and you're
going back and forth yeah we are yeah me
and my mom we lived in Europe but we
would come back every like year or year
and a half or so to see my grandparents
and my aunts and stuff and so we always
had that connection to New York we
always came back and I know and I I was
here during all like the pivotal moments
in history in New York like you know I
remember Son of Sam which was huge if
you were here you know I remember the
blackouts
which were also huge if you hear I
remember the garbage strike which was
also insane because you had like you
know 20-foot mountains of garbage every
fucking where I mean the city stank I
mean you know like I remember all the
madness of New York I mean I moved back
here for good in 79
like I guess fat January or February of
79 I was like the weeks had died
actually the stimulators were supposed
to play maxes the one weekend that he
was playing any guide before the show
but um yeah you know it was a much
different place back then you know you
guys know you know but um you know a lot
of people who have only been here over
the last 20 years they they have no clue
they don't know it is a different
placing and I mean you know in the book
you got crazy pictures like you and Andy
Warhol yeah because you were just you're
it was your aunt Denise that was running
with them oh no actually he doubt or
that did a ran my mom actually knew him
she had been in one of his movies when
she was young when she was like 15 or
something and that picture was just
taken at the class show like I used to
run into people like him at different
clubs and stuff this was backstage at a
clash gig the first time they played we
don't you look like you're about and I
was I was actually 12 in that picture
but yeah I mean I was at all the clubs
all the time you know I mean it was
actually it was a you know
shit huh thinking back on it cuz like I
mean when I went on I did a thing with
Anthony Bourdain in a while back and he
was like you know he's like I remember
standing front of clubs like Max's and
trying to get in and you know here
become this like 12 year old kid just
like walk through the fucking door like
the bouncers would just like let him in
like it when you know like he belonged
in there and I'm like fuckin why the
fuck is this child here like who let him
in and who the fuck is he and why are
they serving him like he's the fucking
mayor you know and uh you know thinking
back it is yeah it's fucking a little
strange you know I mean I was I was the
youngest kid that you around on the club
scene back then and then you know as
time went on you know my band the
stimulators really I had a lot to do
with it the crowds that the show started
getting younger and younger because like
you know we started pulling a very young
following you know go figure twelve year
old in the band and people like the
Beastie Boys they started coming to see
it before they were the Beastie Boys
they were like they were just fans of
ours friends of mine they were like some
of my best friends growing up and and
then a lot of other people who went on
to start a lot of the first wave of New
York hardcore bands were fans of the
stimulators kids were all like you know
in their early teens when they used to
see us play and then they went on to
start a lot of the bands that um you
know set off that now how long did you
play with the stimulators for I had only
played with them from like 79 to like 80
maybe the beginning of 81 and then I was
done with it because at that point I had
already you know the Bad Brains had come
to New York and I was already and I was
it all that first hardcore that came out
from you know Black Flag to Circle Jerks
Minor threatened of course bands like
discharged from oversea from England you
know and all that shit was starting to
really take over my my my soul and so I
was like you know I can't play with the
fuckin stimulators and shit is too poppy
- like it's heavy it's just not it's not
where I am and at that point I had
already you know the life I was living
on the streets and the life that the
other band members were living was not
really the same I was just hitting my
teens and as we all know that's when the
problems began you know that's when you
start getting in trouble so yeah and the
music that I started writing really
reflected the the feelings that that I
was having and uh you know because of it
not just the environment but just you
know everything leading up to that point
and had created this person and it was a
really violent neighborhood it was a
really violent neighborhood and I I ate
a lot of shit for being white and which
is ironic because you know I'm a quarter
Dominican and I'm Cherokee and I'm
Choctaw but if you look at me especially
you know in all Puerto Rican
neighborhood I'm a white boy you know so
I really ate a lot of shit I really you
know until I started fighting and
actually started getting more I hate to
say it but start getting more violent
that started to earn me a little bit of
respect and I guess the fear and the
credibility kind of went hand-in-hand
like when Pete you know people knew that
they couldn't fuck with me I started
getting respect and I don't really think
that's a really healthy for a young mind
to associate popularity with violence
and aggression you know yeah and I mean
New York at that time and like you said
and I used to come down to New York
sometimes when I was younger and it was
completely different you know in the in
the mid-80s and you were there earlier
than that but for me in the mid-80s when
you'd come down here it was completely
dead and I mean were sitting here right
now in Times Square Times Square was
fucking nuts around a nice man there was
like you take Tuesday every two steps
somebody often you drugs
you know I used to come here when I'd
cut school and just watch people get
picked
could it watch the hookers turning
tricks and the guys selling drugs and
the people getting into trouble and yeah
it was it was madness it was a fucking
free-for-all I'm sorry it's really and
where you were living
you were living there were strict yeah I
was waiting way worse it was way worse I
mean I was talking to ice-t the other
day we were talking about you know some
of our experiences and just in my area
alone I mean there was about five or six
gangs within a you know 10 15 block
distance you know everything from the
hit men on my block were fucking really
out of control until the Hells Angels on
Third Street who back then were like
legitimately no fucking joke I mean you
know I mean I could tell you some fucked
up stories but you know you could tell
me fucked up so it's there so where does
that go goes into you know I just it's
it's hard to uh if people go to New York
now it's just completely dead yeah
rhiannon if not it's impossible to
really get it I mean the best thing you
could do is look at like some old movies
that kind of try to capture the then you
got our pictures in the book that shows
a neighborhood yeah and there you can
tell you can tell they look like a war
zone yeah I mean I wouldn't know but uh
they look as close to look like a war
zone you take it from me or else I look
like a war zone
I mean dude I was living in a squat we
literally had no running water no
windows no well how would we even you
like moved out ah I left home when I was
like 14
you know because basically I was getting
into so much trouble in school that they
were about to basically take me from my
mother and put me in like Spofford and I
was like fuck this you know I had lost
interest in school and and all that shit
it's actually funny out some I want to
tell you when I was 15 actually just
write down there and there was a
recruiting center
army Marines Navy the whole bid and I
was 15 I I tried to enlist in the
Marines you know because like I at that
point I was already I was very I guess I
had a lot of pent-up aggression
and I was just like you know I just want
to fucking you know I probably shouldn't
say this it probably sounds bad for the
military but I just wanted to kill
because that's what I just wanted to
fucking kill and I wanted to be able to
like I just was so fucking ah you know
and it didn't help that my mother was a
hippie so you know just it's natural for
a teenager to rebel against everything
their parents believe in I mean I had
like fucking recruiting you know
catalogs and shit under my bed whereas
most kids probably had you know their
Playboy's and shit like my mom would
find my military recruiting shit you
know it's better like hold it up the
fuck is you know pinup is like is my son
to be no soldier another fucking if he's
looking there's a lot of guys you know
like fuck this through the years you're
a hundred percent right because through
the years there's so many guys in the
military and you meet some guy you're
like hey how's it going you you know you
learned their last name at first but
then to cook you know you get to know
them a little bit you're like you know
oh what's your first name and they'll be
like oh my first name is rainbow you
know my first name is you know ocean
yeah oh yeah my parents were here yeah
and and so many kids rebelled against
their deepest I'm going to go read
orbital I'm going in the engine issue
that's a very common so your honor
percent right it's a way to rebel and I
even say this you know for me you know
hardcore was a rebellion no yeah and and
going in the military for was rebellion
against the the norm you know was
everyone's going to a I'm going to go be
a hippie smoke dope go to college get a
job and I was like now I'm gonna go be a
commando and just get after it
fuck no yeah so you know what it's
fucked up because it's like had I
followed those instincts you know I mean
you know in some ways my life would have
been probably a million times better I
know how to add a lot more you know
discipline I would have had a lot more
focus I would had more positive shit you
know going on I would learn some skills
and shit but at the same time I wouldn't
have fucking written a jerk war Allah
whatever hidden best wishes I wouldn't
have been full
people like you to bid you know to go
above and beyond what the fuck I could
ever fuckin try to do you know so it's
like I feel like in in my own way I
managed to do my service to you know
humanity if you will you know although
it was a disservice in a lot of ways
because I did inspire a lot of people do
a lot of really fucking wrong shit you
know but but nonetheless the inspiration
that it was real it was genuine I think
that's why 30 years later people still
give a fuck about that record and and
people are still out making money on
that record and you know people still
cover songs off that record you know and
and it's funny because I was telling you
earlier is I mean that lineup that
played on that record only lasted for
one fucking record you know it's amazing
how short it already live yeah yeah you
know and it's like and you know it was
something special because still now
thirty years later people still talking
about and not many people can say that
based on one fuckin album do you know so
it's good shit I got it I'm just gonna
go like were talking about your
neighborhood this is just kind of a
sample of what you were livin around and
in back to the book I remember one night
lying there hearing some chick down the
street getting raped yeah and knowing
there wasn't really nothing to do it was
like a helpless feeling you knew that if
the cops got called it wouldn't matter
because they probably wouldn't show up
and if they did it would be too late and
they probably wouldn't find her yeah one
night my mother's then-boyfriend got the
tip of his nose almost shot off by a zip
gun he has a scar to this day just
because he was white looked a little
freaky and was walking down our block I
remember coming home one night and my
aunt and my mom my aunt and Ann
Gustafson the stimulators basis got
jumped by six dudes with golf clubs and
shit trying to pull her guitar out of
her hands you don't really think about a
group of guys jumping to chicks and a
kid but that shit happened they didn't
give a fuck you've got a figure a lot of
these guys would hang out and Huff glue
and
shit and when you Huff glue and you
smoke a lot of dust you get pretty grim
and lean towards violence yeah
so there's your there's your
surroundings there's your environment
yeah I mean it's you know it's I'll tell
you man it's it's uh it's almost harder
to hear it being read back to me now
especially in your voice but uh but it's
like you know it's real and it brings
back a serious emotional response in me
you know you know as I was reading that
I was just thinking myself because you
and I know in the scene there was always
guys that had dogs right in pit bulls
everyone had pit bulls and as I was
reading that you know you and I both
know if you take a pit bull and you
bring it up and you beat it and you
torture it and you heard it that dogs
going to be a mean evil bastard and if
that dog's brother can get brought up
and get fed and get taken care of and
you know sweet it gets treated good and
that that dogs as well might be nice and
you know I just thinking you take a
person a human being and you put them in
an environment where that's what they're
living with and that's what they're
seeing and that's what's around them
they're going to tend towards that
direction yeah and it's gonna be hard to
break out of that shit it is you know
and it's you know look around at the
world man you know look at all the all
the fucking ghettos everywhere look at
all the you know all the you know a lot
of people don't get outside of this
country you know they live here so
people don't realize how well they have
it yeah and even you know I used to
laugh I was talking to my friend
melly-mel and we were saying I was
saying you know I don't even understand
what the fuck's up with all that like
westco's gangbang and shit I mean these
guys paid first of all they don't even
have to deal with winter okay hey you
know a second floor
and they all got like yards and garages
and fucking barbecues and shit like we
grew up in like apartments with fucking
rats and roaches and you know concrete
everywhere and you know what the fucking
you so pissed about that you need to go
and shoot at each other and kill each
other you have fucking bored like it
just you know it is an interesting
dynamic here in New York City the way it
is that's been in touch it's I mean even
now that it's like you know soft this
fucking baby shit it's still intense
yeah you know like III just I feel
confined when I'm here you know yeah now
that I know now that I've grown up when
I come here and I live in Cal I live in
a home yeah yeah
and you're right I got a yard and I got
a barbecue they shit and my neighbors
have yard and it's a good morning and
and it's like you just you have space
yeah yeah yeah real thing and animals
you know you can't put an animal little
tiny cage to get pissed off yeah we do
eight million people in New York put
them in little tiny cages but it's her
getting pissed off yeah especially when
you know the good majority of them broke
as shit yeah yeah yeah but this whole
time as you're doing this
at the same time you're still you're
listening to music you're going to shows
all the time and like you said the Bad
Brains show up yeah yeah those changes
that was a game-changer they were as
groundbreaking as far as for me they
they rocked my world as much like the
Sex Pistols like that they is like all
of a sudden it was a new chapter I you
know the way you wrote you wrote about
the Bad Brains so the Bad Brains trilogy
that don't know is a band from DC and
they were pivotal in changing music
really the generation of music and
there's all kinds of bands that
reference them like big bands that
reference the Bad Brains but here's what
you said about the Bad Brains oh well
that's we think about the distance for
those who don't know they were not only
one of the innovators of what we call
hardcore pawn
but they were all black and they were
from DC and it you know there was not
many black kids on the scene there
always was black kids on it was always
boring
it was always everybody you know we
always it was always mixed diversity on
the scene but they were like the best
they were the tightest they were the
best they were the fucking stay with his
shit man and a lot of times when people
first heard their first 45 you know just
because of the style of the music people
didn't even know they were black and
they'd go see them maybe like oh shit
these guys are black now that may not
seem like a big deal now we're talking
about fucking 19 you know 80 yeah you
know and yeah they were just the fucking
they were the shit man and then they got
into Rastafarianism and then you know
even further made it even more bizarre a
bunch of fucking rosters from DC playing
hardcore yeah you know what the fuck is
that and playing it better than
everybody like fucking smokin
motherfucker yeah yeah you know uh you
know I think if you got to see the Bad
Brains back in the day you you're lucky
yeah I mean I remember seeing the Bad
Brains and just being you just just yeah
I mean it's it'd be like seeing that
James Brown back when he had Bootsy
Collins on bass like back in the old
like when he was like all over this -
like in HR - like James Brown meets
Johnny Rotten yeah you know here's what
you said back to the book you hear a lot
of crazy stories about HR HR is the the
singer from the Bad Brains throat in the
Bad Brains but as crazy as HR can act at
times back in the day he was
inspirational beyond belief he and the
Bad Brains had the entire New York are
Keirsey hardcore scene talk talking like
fucking Jamaicans for the longest time
everybody was like fire burn in blood
clock as a circle bands like the mob
were so heavily influenced by them that
the bass player started growing dreads
and wearing a Rasta hat a whole
contingent of white Rasta started
popping up on the hardcore scene they
took things to another level it was
impossible not to be inspired by the Bad
Brains the only way to describe HR would
be like James Brown beats Johnny Rotten
meets Bob Marley he was such a dynamic
frontman HR could do a standing back
flip and land
right at the end of the song nail it
right at the last beat it was like oh my
god did he just plan that I remember one
time at a7 which was a tiny club within
the first two minutes or so of their
show
he had already knocked the sheet rock
ceiling out and bent the mic stand in
half the amount of explosive energy that
would come out of that motherfucker you
couldn't help but be blown away
especially since we were all young and
here was this guy that was in shape he
used to be a javelin thrower back in
high school he was always athletic so he
had a bunch of scrawny punk rock
motherfuckers and this dude's up there
that was an athletic powerhouse going
completely apeshit and he could sing his
ass off and he could hit notes HR came
out there with a purpose
like he was on a mission every show I
saw theirs back then was amazing I
remember I saw him up in Boston one time
and he was like going if there was I
guess like fire pipes or whatever a
sprinkler pipes and he's leaping up and
swinging on those things and jumping off
in the crowd it was not he was a
motherfucker man he spent half the show
in the crowd
like he was yeah you know but you can't
you can't you just can't even you know
yeah man there was something everybody
has that moment though that that period
where they really you know
well not everybody but everybody who's
like intense you know you know you think
about your life you can think of that
one period where you were just on
fucking point you know and they when I
was like 16 it ended like last week I
would lasted quite that long that's not
some of us but but yeah there was a
period when they were just fucking
untouchable and and you know you seen HR
now yeah I've seen him over the few and
he actually like seen him talked to him
I last time I spoke to him and he came
out to my house was probably around 2011
or 2010 and you know he's definitely you
know he's he's got some issues yeah he
had suffered some seriously he has like
mental issues you know I mean I don't
know what his diagnosis is I'm not going
to stay in here and pretend to know but
it's you know if you can tell there's a
clear change again that guy from yeah
yeah as a guy now there's something that
is definitely clearly something large
grown you know and I can't just blame it
all on drugs because you know some of us
have done plenty of them and they're
fine so I mean it's something I know
it's just a minute yeah you know it's
really it's really sad you know the
place well you know I don't I don't know
I don't know when or what they're doing
and playing I mean and God bless them
you know I mean doctor no you know he
suffered a stroke and a heart attack and
he had to like learn how to use his hand
again and I never to actually did a
benefit show us a record that's
available on PledgeMusic it's the only
place you can get you can't even buy it
in stores and 48% of the music goes to
help him just help him all you know to
whatever he needs help with you know
because God knows he's pledged music
yeah what do you search played yeah
pledged music Carla Flanagan and the
song will come up it's one of the songs
is called friends like you and but
anyway yeah I mean they were those guys
were intense I mean it'll never be what
it was you know I'm glad that they're
you know doing their thing you know what
not there but I think my memory of them
is from that period yeah and you
probably how many times you see I cuz I
have no idea I saw them so many times I
saw them out on the west coast and you
know excuse me
yeah I saw them in Tijuana really yeah
but HR wasn't with him so it was kind of
like oh yeah yeah but not that cool no
menacing or not I had other singers who
were really do great dudes great singers
but it's really hard to follow someone
like footsteps I mean it doesn't fossil
and that's a rough yeah yeah no so
meanwhile you did a trip to England this
is the first time you saw skinheads
before well I saw higher loud yeah I got
my head shaved in Ireland I had seen
skinheads one time before in London but
I didn't know what the fuck they were
like what the file like I could tell
that there was something they had an
interesting look like they you know and
but the shaved head thing was what got
me and yeah so I met skinheads in
England in the 70s but I got my head
shaved in Belfast in 1980 and here's
what they told you going back to the
book I always remembered what the
Belfast skins told me teach America
about skinheads the first few friends of
mine to shave their heads and included
Adam Yauch well you know that is from
the Beastie Boys and a few others who
weren't really skinheads in the
stereotypical thug way they just liked
to look in the music I mean we were all
into the early oil style music cockney
rejects and bands like that even though
it wasn't really called all yet the
2-tone thing was happening with all the
ska bands jumping off like the specials
and selector and madness and they were
all popular with the skinheads early on
but there still wasn't a skinhead scene
in New York just a few friends of mine
who were up on it but in a couple years
all that would change so obviously the
the typical person when they that
doesn't follow the music scene at least
at a deeper level when they think skin
had the immediately think of sort of the
the branch that went often and got the
most press which was the the neo-nazi
skinheads but the original the origins
of the skinheads is actually black dudes
rudeboys ska bands like The Specials
and madness and that's kind of what you
saw and yeah I mean I actually talked
about a little bit of that in the book I
give a little bit of the historical
information just to give people a
clearer idea yeah but you know the media
always let latches onto whatever is most
sensationalistic you know they try to
always grab the worst aspects of what
people are doing and you know yeah you
know that is you got it you know yeah
yeah I mean I'll say one more thing the
New York scene had always been more die
versed in most hardcore scenes that
always been Spanish kids black kids
Asian kids a lot of the early New York
hardcore skinheads were Spanish yeah
Roger from agnostic front which if you
don't know agnostic front is probably
they might be considered like the oh
they're definitely one of the biggest
sort of see ahead bands from America and
they were absolutely the first real like
New York skinhead and you know I mean
but yeah you know and he's Cuban logic
you know I mean Diego was Puerto Rican
as was Jose from the mob and so were a
lot of skinheads that came around later
even back in the maxis days you had the
Bad Brains pure hell by influence or one
of the first real New York hardcore
bands and they were all black yeah I
think where you just pulled up I was
just talking about the diversity on the
scene in New York New York has always
been different from other places as you
know you you know it's one of the things
that's cool about it here yeah I could
say you could say it's fairly diverse
here in the Atlantic fuck you know this
is Gabbie one mo I bet you did I know
you have to look at this but is New York
City one of the most diverse places in
the book on the planet
it sounds like different languages get
out of okay I mean one thing I noticed
that you know but you can eat any type
of food here yeah you know so if I have
people that yeah yeah like so I mean we
had moved here like three weeks ago
that's one thing I loved about here you
know we just had Gangnam style uh uh
dumpling dumpling we she yeah
dumplings and sushi serves I buy Gangnam
style actual go oh and meanwhile it you
know at this time back to the book I was
drinking a lot huffing glue taking pills
and lots of LSD and whatever else so
this whole time that's what's is
prevalent in the scene
yeah row yeah New York was a very much
our scene liked to get fucked up in DC
they where they invented straightedge
you know they were they were all about
uh being clean and sober and and god
bless him and you know that caught on
like wildfire in other places you know
the straightedge movement spread and
whatnot and we always went the extreme
opposite we were like well you know they
had a song don't drink don't smoke don't
fuck we used to sing you know we we
drink we smoke we fought fuck you
you know and yeah a bunch of us fucking
idiots I mean you know it unfortunately
you know at that point in my life and in
the hardcore scene it was often cool how
fucked up you could be you know and I'm
sure it's that that way in a lot of the
world and a lot of youth culture and a
lot of you know Cruz and gang culture
and you know I don't mean to theorize
but I'm gonna do it a little bit of
philosophizing
you know like cultures back back in the
day or some cultures even today when you
want to prove that you are will
sacrifice yourself for the tribe a
little bit like I'll go hunt that line
or I'll go out and do something that's
hard and I'll take risks for the group
and I'll prove that that hump that I
don't care what happens to me yeah I I
should have been replaced I think that
hey I'm gonna prove that I don't care
what's happened to me watch me drink yes
watch me shoot this watch me smoke this
and whatever no I agree I think that
that instinct that's still in us doesn't
have a place to be used properly and
I'll tell you where I got that
philosophy from
in the SEAL Teams man when I came in it
was like the way that you kind of proved
that you were tough was drinking and
fighting right you thinking inviting
everything to a fucking extreme will you
fucking drink five I'll drink ten yeah
you fought two motherfuckers I'll fight
fucking five motherfucker and that's
what it was yeah and when the war
started it's not like that stop because
that stuff still goes on but it
definitely in my mind it in my mind I
was thinking and we still drink I'm
still party didn't got after it but it
was different man it was different - all
of a sudden be saying hey look you know
what I need to prove myself as on the
battlefield
I need to be ready for that so I when I
apply that to like all of society it
seems like a young kid like you who's 15
16 years old how do you prove that
you're tough how do you move your
manhood oh you think you can drink 12
out of 20 exhibiting it yeah yeah and
and you know you talked about like the
straightedge movement and those guys
interesting but they took it to another
level - they stopped fucking David they
stopped and again swung it and fuck and
then how do they how did they did then
prove that they were tough they would go
out and fight and beat up people that
were drunk and shit like that
well that happened without it happening
in some scenes and there because like in
DC those guys were always they always
tried to be more PC they always had a
little bit more consciousness but in a
lot of other places you had bands like
you know you I got I got in trouble with
Ian MacKaye remember when Lulu gauzy
came on the air so Bobby one of my
buddies from DC what is America today
and one of those guy one of my buddies
one of our bodies sent me a demo tape
like hey this is this is Ian's new band
ed you're alive he's awesome so I was
like cool I did great album I liked it
right now and so we went and saw him in
Brooklyn me and my boys went down to
Brooklyn to see him and we went berserk
cuz and he wasn't feeling he was like
and yet like longer curly hair and and
he's standing there and he's like me
play the first song that we just cleared
out throwing everything was knotted he
was like like um hey I think what'd he
say so he knows I'm not bullshitting if
he ever hears this he said something
along the lines of like let's leave our
let's leave our machoism and our egos at
the door you know if you're gonna dance
be cool or something like that and so
then I was like like dude what do I do
now music rock I want to break stuff and
I couldn't so yeah and I remember when
he started going that route and you know
what god bless him no matter you got a
lotta fuckin cool yeah you know and he
has always had his integrity and as he
as he matured it you know his way of
thinking yeah and you know what you've
got a
back to me yet held aligned with what he
did as record they never sold out you
know what hats off really he's fucking
legit man for sure I got none direct for
now at this giant used to break his
balls fucking relentlessly though but
that's just the way I am if I if I if I
like someone I respected chances are I'm
gonna really fuck with them whenever I
have the opportunity yeah you know so
you know arms a fuck you yeah duh
at that time you you kind of came up
with the name of the clear night you
came in crow magazine and you started
like tagging everything with yeah I'm a
guy right in a aware yeah useful you had
a kick-ass man it's like when we talked
about my first the hardcore band called
Bronson's children first thing we did no
music for we didn't sure yeah no you
know you got it is a good merchant so we
know that's what we did
what you're doing say things just right
here that we play music and I was in uh
see we'll go with this one so you start
you start coming put together the band
and then things started getting a little
bit crazy you beat someone up
who's some friend of someone else and
all of a sudden you heard that you had
like a price on your head I was actually
before the cro-mags really was the Opry
at the nation were nothing yeah and
that's actually why I wound up heading
out to California I had to take a little
break for my neighborhood
uh-huh yeah it was pretty intense man
this dude um hi there was a gang on my
block called the hit man and this is
back in you know I remember them from
the 70s through to the 80s I mean this
is when they still used to wear colors
you know patches on there in fact the
Puerto Rican gangs looked more like
bikers like Puerto Rican bikers without
bikes back then like they all had like
patches and jeans and like MC boots and
you know they'd wear like the f-troop
hats and it would total old-school you
know like you know of wolf tails and
shit you know like of fur collars it's
like ridiculous if you look on old
YouTube and
no photos of New York gangs I'd be like
okay that's what he's talking about
anyway yeah these guys were fuckin they
were no joke and they're one of the hit
men was Pigman and he you know they did
hits they weren't called the hit men you
know because they you know wrote hit
songs they you know they besides selling
heroin they did hits and Pigman I'd
known about him my whole childhood he
was like a Lower East Side NIF like you
you know everybody had heard of him but
no one knew you know because if you saw
him it was most likely the last thing
you saw you know but he would wear a
pig's mask that's why it was called pigs
Pigman and he would pull up in his blue
Nova and fucking blast you with a
shotgun and it was that simple
and they actually kicked in a friend of
Mines door and put shot ease in people's
mouths and guns to their heads where
it's Harley and one of the skinhead
apartments looking for me and they came
to my squat and pulled someone into a
corner and put knives to the throat
switch apartments Harley in and Pigman
was cruising by my friends with the
masks on and didn't see me so kept
driving I guess so it was real
and I'm like us you know it's like
fucking 15 you know I mean I'm 15 I got
fucking Pigman looking for me I mean
that's fucking no joke this is Pigman
was a fuck jido Pigman
I'm like telling the locals on my block
I'm like shit man my mother lives on 12
Street you know what the fuck I know
what about her I don't worry about your
mom everybody loves your mom this is not
personal man there's money on the horses
business but you should get out of here
man you should hang low
these are your Puerto Rican brothers
telling you that yeah like the guys
named black just people who knew me from
school like people like you know my
friends uncles and shit like that you
know like dude you should get the fuck
out of here so I'm like I can't know
what I think I will yeah so that's just
that's cuz you beat somebody up yeah I
used to I used to get a lot of fights
and I used to also you know yeah I'd
beat someone up and it turned out he was
a who's this guy who's
one owner of one of the after-hours
clubs on the Lower East Side and a lot
of these after-hours clubs like you know
save the robots and the pyramid and all
these other places they had like no they
like they will the late night freak
clubs where everybody doe lyke till 6:00
in the morning and they would all be
doing blow and doing coke so I guess
that's how they knew the hit men because
they all used to all the club freaks
used to dial their drugs from the Puerto
Ricans in the neighborhood so we were
kind of fucking up their business too
because we were like fucking up all all
the new freaks that were starting to
come to glory side all the new white
people that we were like you know fuck
you we just made this motherfucking
neighborhood safe now you motherfuckers
all think it is the gang busters like
y'all just the flood is fucking fuck
this is our neighborhood now you know so
yeah you know I was an asshole I mean
you know I have to admit that you know
looking back if you know if you ever
gonna man up you have to be able to say
yes I was an asshole you know but that
shit uh yeah big man was no joke and
what the California shit died off I came
back dude you went to California and I
was reading that part of the book yeah
what in God's name is going on yeah you
talk about the bats yeah man I roll we
were living in an abandoned brewery
there was you know couple hundred kids
living there probably we were all living
in the actual vats that they used to
have the Buick rubber coated square
rooms like what a manhole to get in and
out of and you know we were living in
the air vents and yeah I was fuckin
crazy man and everybody was fucked up on
drugs everybody was a runaway everybody
was you know it was what amazes me about
the 80s is the lawlessness you know in
New York and in San Francisco you know
like you could really get away with just
about fuckin anything and it would be
like no police involvement no
repercussion you know I mean you'd get
into a fight and she could go on for a
half a fucking hour like from one area
to another and back and forth you know a
guns will fight yeah like I mean you
would fuckin start fighting on Avenue a
you'd end up on First Avenue over on
seventh Street and back over
history and back down to having you and
it's like mad screaming and you know
stabbings and bottles breaking and no
cops
you know and it was like you know I mean
shit happens now man you fart too
fucking loud on the street here you get
arrested yeah I just have so are we
you're 15 years old you livin in enough
in fact ya in San Francisco with a bunch
of everyone's running around everybody's
math whistle meth fuckin shootin crystal
left right front Center dropping liquid
acid in their eyeballs yeah how's that
even like how do you process bad and
other the weird thing is is like you're
surviving like yeah yeah you're you're
getting food somehow right stealin food
shot her lifting and panhandling and
mugging people do you know ya figured it
out
figuring it out and that's what everyone
in this fat these guys are doing yeah
well I mean there was only a couple of
us that were out mugging people because
there was only like me and Mark dagger
and a couple other people who were like
hard asses everybody else was either out
panhandling or turning tricks you know
it was like you you know you either out
mugging someone sucking a dick or
begging for change you know and and we
were at did you just think like okay
this is what life is like yeah that's
what life was like you know I really I
remember like eating at soup kitchens
you know with like adults and I'm like
15 and that being weird and like almost
getting into fights with like dudes who
were like ex-cons and you know like
dudes who had just got out of prison who
were like to them they were still in the
prison lunchroom you know and to me I'm
just like trying to you know get some
food you know and yeah it was it was
pretty intense you know
I mean but to be fair I had a great
fucking time you know I mean I had a lot
of fun you know the the debauchery the
violence the drugs I had fucking blast I
would I recommend any of it No
what I wish it on my kids or my worst
enemies no did I have a great time yes
okay I how I fucking made it I don't
know but you know I guess it's I guess
is that like when people talk about well
when people say to me oh I think this is
the same thing because I'm sitting here
going how can that be fun but I guess
yeah not dude be worried about like the
or not think about the most intense
situation I've been in it's like the
adrenaline the fucking ahh like dude the
last time I got in like a real fucking
crate no not the last time the third or
fourth the last time I got in a really
bad violent situation like the one it's
in the book when I got had like that I
fucked up this dude was in a gang and
next thing I know I got like 30 dudes
fucking coming after me with pipes bats
toppled by smashing out our windows and
I'm running into the crowd of them to
save a friend of mine now see like dude
I was fucking like high for like a week
off of the adrenaline and then when I
finally came down I was like woah what
the fuck was that man I could have died
you know but like for literally a week
after that shit I was like yeah you know
and and you know that's like but that's
the difference between certain type of
people like you know I will run into a
fucking violence to save a friend yeah a
lot of fucking people that I grew up
with will fucking Punk out I've seen
people that I respected fucking run and
leave their friends behind and it's some
real pussy shit especially when they're
trying to be all badass skin hit get
twos and now I'm yes I'm now you ain't
nothin but a bitch you know and a man
and you know and that's one reason why
I'm really fuckin proud to be here you
know because it's like you guys one of
the things I respect the most is someone
who will put themselves on the line for
someone else like when you will put your
own life at risk for another person
there's nothing more Admiral
and that so hats off to you guys and to
all all the military out there you know
serving this country and serving their
brothers their sisters their families
and everybody you know hats off man it
takes a lot of fuckin balls and I
respect and I'm not you know even law
enforcement you know and I'm not a big
fan of the police in many circum friends
with a lot of cops since I started doing
jujitsu Joe changes a lot of things for
the pilot but but however you know I
still have my reservations but I respect
again anybody who is willing to put
their life on the line for others and
for the greater good you know and this
really meant higher yeah you know yeah
well like obviously I come at work with
the police and get it there the same way
man they're there and they got a gosh
they got there one of the hardest jobs
now look I say that with you know little
bit tongue-in-cheek you know I mean it's
like I've grown up always being on the
shitty end of the stick when it comes to
the cops and you know still to this day
even like when I'm trying to get
something achieved and accomplished and
I try to go to them for guidance they
still look at me like they're they want
to slap the cuffs on me more than
fucking help me out you know so you know
but you know I addictive but for
everybody but but I do understand you
know I I what they deal with on a
regular basis so I get it but I also
think that a lot of people are attracted
towards lives of work that give them a
position where they can abuse their
position you know I think that have I
been teaching human race though I mean
why it's like go do a ride-along with
some cops man oh yeah it is I couldn't
do it man cops is just they what they
deal with on a day to day basis what it
does to the brain
hey man it looked at you know hard-ass
job it some people don't understand I
mean it's like there's a certain level
of you know once you've seen some some
shit you're always on that edge yeah you
know and that fight that fight or flight
you know and unfortunately they don't
have the choice they have no choice you
have to deal we've got a fight
so you know you know and they got to
protect you don't know of course you see
oh all we always see the negative thing
yeah cops but now they are trying to
work within certain guidelines and that
man I'm our tenth of the time they're
there going no hey sir please put the
bat down put the knife down that is to
do an idea you know sucks - hard-ass job
hard-ass but you know again I got a you
know
I also got a play I gotta keep my one
foot grounded in the streets I still
have my yeah you were uh yeah you're
conditioned yes from your childhood yeah
that the man you were is more on the
other side you on the other side that
exam you decide and so now that's how
your condition us weird just like when
they when they see you well I don't know
if they see see now well you know yeah
things are a little different now but
you know yeah hey you know what the fuck
you're gonna do well I'll tell you what
I do when the cops they do something so
I do it
not a fuck around I'm like look of it's
no problem that's not no no problem
that's a male Friday I see my little
fucker gradual I go fuck that shit I was
fuckin wrong with you all you had to do
is say yes sir how fucking difficult to
that you know motherfucker you dad
stupid yeah um man we haven't even
gotten to like the cro-mags yet have we
who the crow max oh yeah like put
together the first ALP you know to me
yeah shit
so you guys finally get together here we
go back to the book they've been three
years since Paris and you so Paris the
guy was used the guitar stars from The
Crow Max hooked up and started writing
November 2nd 1984 and on February 16th
1985 the cro-mags went into high five
studios on 27th Street Park Avenue
recorded 12 songs the age of choral
cassette which is released on CD called
before the coral yeah that was the
original version of the album before we
actually went recorded the album age of
quarrel so that's 84 yeah that that's
going down
yes and that's a good recording I have
that thank you I I actually like it a
lot better than the album I was telling
you before I can't I
I don't like it someone granted my head
that I expect little things that aren't
there I thought I like the first one
better because I think it's just more
raw it is more it's more explosive I
think it's more true to what we actually
sounded like when we played live you
know yeah the other thing the other one
had you know a lot of production shit
that I wasn't too happy about but yeah
so now this is where now you think the
story's been crazy so far echo
I'll just throw you under the bus right
now the story's being crazy now it goes
just takes another kind of what I
consider us an even more bizarre turn
than everything we've talked about so
far so going back to the book I was into
vegetarianism but it took me a while to
get into Krishna at first John this is
the the singer from the cro-mags or one
of the singers that sang the crow max
John and me used to go to the trucks
where they served free food and
competence Square Park which was a big
hangout back again and everyone used to
go there and hang out a lot of hardcore
kids did I mean I was living in a squat
I was vegetarian I had no money and here
was free vegetarian food they also had a
few preaching centers on the west side
that me and John used to go to to eat
but still it took a while for to give a
fuck about what they were saying I was
there for the free food I wasn't looking
for religion I was just hungry and
trying to survive we would always show
up late John would tell us when the good
time was just to get the food after the
reading and preaching and everything but
over time I really started getting into
the philosophy in the beginning people
didn't take John and Krishna seriously
it was kind of something the hardcore
scene laughed at but as my friends and
me started getting into Krishna it
started to change so you guys started
getting into Hari Krishna yeah yes which
is pretty real funny looking back now
tell me the fundamental philosophies I
mean obviously Hari Krishna's are
vegetarian because they don't want to
like hurt you know animals actually is
more to
than that that's actually not why it's
because now I'm going to start fucking
talking all their shit well give me a
little bit like you know they only eat
food that are offering to God and you
can't offer God a rotting carcass to eat
okay there's there's nothing that has to
do with like hey we don't want to hurt
them oh there's all this karmic stuff
you know everybody likes to you know not
make more Karma for them so it's good or
bad see that's what I'm saying like this
is why this is why it gets more bizarre
to me and I gotta say more come on yeah
well see that's the thing is with the
amount of karma I had already hated
myself I was trying but this is where it
gets even more fucked up and twisted
because you got me and my friends who
are like recovering skinheads lack of a
better way of putting it now dudes who
used to go out and get in like you know
20 fights in the night you know put 19
people in ICU just because you know just
walking from the east side to the west
side what you looking at guy you know
fuck you I all night just fucking wild
and you know and then all that shit with
Pigman and this and that and God knows
how many other things you know how many
bodies I found and came across and and
you know how many how much madness I had
experienced you know like we were
talking about it you know it's like
sometimes you know you when you're
dealing with life and death on a regular
basis you know sometimes you're like you
know God we start calling out to God you
don't even know what the fuck God is and
you're just like god help me God you
know please you know guide me help it's
the call of desperation you know and I
would have never been into the
Christianity and this and that I just it
all just sound like a bunch of bullshit
to me and and here I was actually
hearing some things that made some sort
of sense to my teenage mind you know
karma woo you know all these other
things that like we're like resonating
with me you know and it's like I needed
that shit you know I needed some sort of
guidance and had I not had something
like that I mean it could have been
fucking Buddha it could have been
whatever you know but I needed something
that was
greater than you needed um kind of
guidance and you know I needed guidance
I needed a whole discipline I needed
hope oh ho yeah you know and when I
started going out to their farm for a
little while like they were getting that
we were getting up at like 5:30 in the
morning and meditating and watching the
Sun come up and like it was like this
whole you know it going from like being
like hunted by the gangs in my
neighborhood to that it was just like I
can't even really explain it it really
it was like I don't know how to fucking
put it and it was just like it was like
here I am at peace like yeah I can say
he sounds like I came for the first time
like wow you know so that but then that
the more I was involved in it anymore I
seen you know that people in religions
in general are typically a bunch of
fucking hypocrites you know you get a
lot of people preaching a lot of shit
that they don't all fucking follow and
all rules don't really fit all people
you know every human is different and
not everybody can follow the same
guidelines and and when is when the
things start becoming just belief what
the fuck is belief anyway it's just what
you choose to believe you know unless
it's like this is real you know this is
really cutting my face that's really
blood this is you know I really have to
eat food and breathe air belief is just
that you know and keine I still have you
know my spiritual inclinations I still
believe in some sort of I don't like to
say the word God anymore because I don't
I don't have that overview that I know
any fucking thing I just know I know I
got a lot of love in my heart for the
people I care about and I know I want to
try to do good things you know I've done
enough bad thing
I'd like to try to prevent some people
from experiencing what I experienced and
at the same time I would like to share
the the great experiences that that I
had with people you know yeah well one
of the one of the great experiences and
one of the things that great things that
you share to people is that that out
that that albumen will go to here going
back to book the age of coral some would
call it one of the most if not the most
influential New York hardcore and
crossover albums it was recorded and
mixed in under 100 hours over a 14 day
period January February 1986 at East
Side sound by Steve remote and Chris
Williamson our manager and so-called
producer but it was really Steve so 86
comes around and you guys put together
da Jack wall yeah this is the one that
got released on a big way I was like the
first harder profile yeah it was
probably one of the first hardcore
records to ever be put out on a real
major label like something that wasn't
like discord or slash records or
something underground yeah and and now
this is you guys are you guys are
starting to get a big trough being huge
outside of New York City yeah we were
starting the tour at this point and
doing you know we our first big break
was touring with Motorhead and then we
got you know we went on to play with
many other metal bands at around that
time the whole crossover thing right so
yeah for those of you who don't know
crossover when he's talking about that
that's the crossover from hardcore to
metal and kind of combined it was really
when little metalheads started
discovering hard right when people like
Metallica started wearing gb8 shirts and
coming to see the cro-mags
yeah when people like anthrax started
daring to come to CBGB's you know and
that's really but the hardcore bands
started getting more metallic well yeah
because late metalhead started shaving
their heads and getting in the hardcore
like the kid like yourself my kids who
had been listening van Halen when they
were little
who started getting into hardcore bands
started getting more mature no no we
definitely I mean did
ignosi yeah yeah no they'd a lot of
people tried to them jump ship you know
I guess you know I don't say that kind
of jokingly but I guess you know it
seemed like there was more opportunity
to actually make a living
bigger on a bigger audience you know
actual record deals
you know Pantera Pantera fucking great
bands Pantera and one of my favorite
bands probably you know Don bag fucking
love that dude one of the worst
tragedies imaginable to music is a
motherfucker got shot on stage right and
by a fucking psychotic fan I mean it's
like you know what the fuck man yeah
that was awful you know yeah it's uh
yeah I mean not to not to talk about not
to get in the you know the whole crow
mag beef and this and that but like one
thing I will say is you know it really
bothers me that a dime bag died like
that and that they never because I know
they would have buried the hatchet by
now and they would have done an amazing
reunion tour and they were they would
have just kicked this shit out of
everybody and they'll never have that
opportunity now because he was robbed
from us and to know that my band was
such a bunch of stubborn immature
fucking old assholes that they could
never actually embrace each other purely
based on what we did achieve together
and how many fans would be so happy you
know because once once you're gone
you're done and you know it's very rare
that four or five people will have that
chemistry for a moment in life so you
know just based on that alone
it's pretty fucking sad pathetic you
know yeah it's weird run that you guys
have got you guys you guys you guys were
on the verge yeah I mean yeah and and
when I you know when I remember you guys
touring and I didn't see you on the age
of coral tour because that wasn't really
fast toward you and yeah but night we
had an opportunity to see you but I saw
you on the best wishes tour which was
the next album that came out and you
guys were big I mean you guys were
influenced just to kind of put in
perspective for people like I think the
places where I saw you play and this is
kind of a national brand is the House of
Blues if you've ever been to the House
of Blues yeah a place don't as big as
the House of Blues nice to play there a
lot okay I didn't know you actually
there but like that kind of venue so
that's in my mind you know that's yeah
that's it and in that venue yeah I mean
when you're playing places that size you
can make a living and you and if you
keep going and stay consistent you know
you can do fairly well for yourself so
now this is the cook so you know age of
oil comes out you guys popular you
toured Europe you know you're getting
after if you you're filling up places
best wishes you're feeling stuff you're
headlining best wishes but you're
playing with Motorhead too before
yeah you're supposed to play with Black
Sabbath one time yeah by the way that
would actually be the ultimate show of
all time I have to fucking agree for my
favorite movie and I just knock it yeah
that real good after yeah like that it
did yeah yeah yeah that's it we got the
floor the fire alarm goes off dude yeah
you know I made it on a flyer with
blacks a motor gay could die now well
here's the crazy thing as I was reading
the book I couldn't believe this you
come home from those tours yeah and you
have no money yeah yeah and you hear
this this is kind of like a rock and
roll myth right oh the guy signs the
contract of the producer and I've
watched a bunch of programs about this
and what the what the record companies
do is they say hey look we're gonna give
you $100,000 advance for your next album
and then you go awesome so they give you
a hundred grand and you start spending
you and then they back charge you for
your studio time and a promotion but
next thing you know literally at the end
you haven't even gone on to it you owe
them 20 that day or not
you're working to pay it off yeah later
this morning with interest and so that
kind of shit that was happening with you
and you come back off these tours you're
famous because also at this time now
that I think about it you and the
cro-mags you guys were like on the cover
of like the metal Maggie Lewis and all
those stupid metal bands man you'd turn
would be like Skid Row on one page and
awesome next like psycho fuck yeah Ozzy
on one page me on the next yeah
so you were there I mean yeah we were on
the cusp little right about to break it
you know and you were still broke
still yeah I'm hoping stores and still
be living on the streets I would I would
be coming off those tours and trying to
figure out where I was staying or I'd be
showing up at my grandmother's house
he's a whore I'd be like you know yeah
we got pretty fucked but you know you
don't know what you don't know you know
so it's like when you're a kid and you
ain't got no guidance nobody looking out
for you you know and you make a lot of
mistakes and also back then they had a
much better monopoly there but yeah in
here there nowadays how to screw you I
say oh you know what I'll just make my
own record and I'll be able to
distribute it through ya the Internet
and Little Debbie do all the cost you
know that would have been helpful in
those days as far as you know but um you
know I think that the Internet and
everything is also really kind of fucked
music up because it's like people don't
have to have any lineage or any
connection to their roots anymore it's
like people don't know anything can just
google it and cut it and paste it and
call it their own and the next thing you
know they're an artist and it's like no
you're not a fucking artist you're a
fucking cut and paste motherfucker who
has never actually experienced the
fucking thing and you don't even know
the history of what you're imitating
well know that you're into it right now
so you're imitating it right now the
other crazy thing is you know it was
hard to get like these records when I
was kid yeah you had to know you
couldn't order them yeah you had to like
get somebody that was going to go to New
York and hey if they have this album can
you pick it or you go to believe your
Bob's and yes
and it was like that couldn't just but
nowadays you can if you say oh the
kromaggs are cool cuz I heard a song you
put them into Google you get cro-mags
you get every other band that's been
related to them you get bound to Sam
like them and you can just download them
all the media it's no factor it's kind
of crazy that's why for me like you know
how many record total record albums I
had and I love music I probably had like
80 records right 80 records on my
computer right now on my phone I
probably got 10,000 records no cat got
all kinds of songs right every band
that's ever existed I got him on my
phone and you you would shit if you saw
my fucking shit going on would shit you
would fucking be like like a kid in the
candy store man you put him cuz I got
everything from back then I got it all
I got like Motorhead test pressings I
got like your water go yeah it's test
present early I was watching this video
with Rollins uh cuz you know Rollins
yeah he has my first single he bought it
from me I think he might have one of the
most epic record clear probably yeah he
likes weird stuff yeah like stuff that
like I wouldn't want it but he got you
know first pressing yeah
pressing he's a freak yeah
and he's got money too he's a good dude
yeah yeah
uncle people you end up trying to try to
sue a little bit I think he tried to sue
the record company something you end up
just going into legal what cause what we
were chatter happened was we were trying
desperately to get off of our record
label and get away from our management
because uh we got to a certain point
where we were just on the verge of
blowing up and profile was was still
treating us like chumps you know we
wouldn't get no money we weren't getting
anything we were getting treated like
fucking dog shit and someone who was
working at Elektra was interested in
signing us so we were like Elektra
Metallica haha here's our fucking shot
so we like gotta file
profile was a metal ish right no profile
was actually a hip-hop label so what
they did with us was really kind of out
there out there because they had you
know their big band like Century Media
I came after Nam and a profile was big
for Run DMC that was who there and then
like Rob bass it takes to take two that
was like there was big they that was
their hits
Run DMC was their main shift speaking of
crossover Run DMC yeah they brought the
metal riffs yeah I mean you know they've
those guys were great man I first saw
them played so many times back in the
day I remember seeing them with the
Beastie Boys at the garden that I was a
fucking great show it's fun man it's
like oh the Beastie Boy is brutal like
the little white kids and Lindy and SIBO
the black kids and the black kids were
just wandering around robbing all the
way late for class and like I could take
off do you play watching people just get
yoked to the fucking Isles I like this
it is hilarious 40 of them so you're
trying to get off that label yeah and
trying to get on to electrode am because
electrodes yeah yeah that would have
been a good move for us but profile
didn't like us and they would have
rather taken you know they couldn't
offer them enough money to give us our
freedom like fuck these day yeah we had
some issues with some of the head people
in and then you end up so with uh with
Alpha Omega yeah and by the way I didn't
say this but you sang on best wishes
yeah I sang on like half the album oh
garrulous no and then me and John both
sang on off on off Omega and I got to
read this from the book cuz I got a kick
out of it oh boy there he goes back to
the book you know how you can always
tell when a heavy band is starting to
lose their edge when they start using a
fucking keyboard yeah we did I had to be
fair I was eating a lot of mushrooms at
the recording session so like things
sounded a little bit different to me and
later sound and did the keyboard sound
cool man
yeah housing all kinds of mushrooms a
drinking mushroom team house like an
that shit sounds cool yeah roll with
that you know now Lizzy at least I can
look back and laugh at myself you know
like if you can't fucking laugh at
yourself and you're an asshole
in some other I think I'm gonna breeze
through it but there's another point
where you're talking about how spinal
tap is like all the even that spinal tap
is right we started yet yeah yeah you
know yeah so it did you what it is a
really fucking play I mean me me and
Doug watched spinal tap with John one
time just just to show you a little bit
about his intellect
alright we're watching about halfway
through that movie John turns to me and
Doug goes yo man these guys suck I've
never even heard of them
how did they make a movie about them me
and Doug just look at each other like
this motherfucker think this is a real
documentary oh my fuckin anyway so I had
to hey you know I've seen I've seen
spinal tap twice live oh I saw him once
yeah yeah I have a spinal tap like yeah
I brought my wife and you know when they
play big bottoms they all play bass yeah
faces yeah that's a those are fucking it
really in all over movie I remember like
being in those clothes where you find
trying to find the stage you're walking
around you think all right Cleveland
alright everybody likes fucking walk
around you wind up outside the club you
like with my magic yeah
now I'm you're still man you're still
struggling yeah yeah you know I
struggled up until pretty much not long
ago two weeks ago like you wrote you
wrote here before I get into this next
chapter
I'm telling you that I had to lose a lot
of stuff from this era because I have
kids now and I don't want them to know
exactly how insane things got or to
think I'm a worse piece of shit than
they already will or do but again this
is proof that you can plummet to the
bottom of the worst depths of hell
and still come back and try to become a
better person there was enough filth
drugs orgies violence and crime during
this period to write a book about
nothing else as insane as it was and as
much fun as I thought I was having deep
down I was looking for a way out I think
that's why I took everything to such an
extreme I don't think I cared if I lived
there were times I don't think I wanted
to I'm not proud looking back on it now
if anything I'm so surprised I survived
Hevy closed up here and you read that
shit bro like it makes me go but yeah
man it's true you know you know I've
seen some of my friends that they start
to I think get the same outlook they
start doing shit that is not you know
high survival rate activities yeah and
it's like they're walking that line of
you know well it's kind of like you want
to die but you're not going to take the
pussy route and kill yourself so you're
just going to do everything you can to
kill yourself without actually putting a
rope around your neck so instead of
putting a rope around your neck you put
a rope around your arm and stick a
fucking needle in it or you know smoke
dust until the world is just a fucking
illusion you know I'm gonna read this
right here because this is this is you
know here you go back to look at one
point I was broke as shit this is after
you have three albums signed by a major
record contract toured all over the
world played with Motorhead on tour here
we go back to the book at one point I
was broke as shit and I got busted
shoplifting food at a supermarket I
didn't have any ID so the kids I was
with ran back to the house and came back
with three of my CD covers his ID I was
sitting in this holding area in the back
of the store in the store
we're looking at me all confused they
were like this is your ID I was holding
up pictures from the age of coral best
wishes Alpha Omega and I was like see
look at the picture and look at my
tattoos this is me they were like you're
kidding right this is all the ID you got
yeah yeah yeah I didn't even have a fuck
I had no idea I had nothing dude you
know what else I just realized that I
completely breathe breezed over is like
I'm saying that you had this record you
had this record yet you're also a sick
basis I mean like an on a legal basis
you know like like she has this
incredible musical town you play drums
too but I mean your bass playing I'm
actually a better drummer but that's
well not as good in you but your bass
playing will staying there you had all
this talent yeah and you had records and
you had fans and you had all the shit
and you're still down in the down of the
dirt I had a thing to shock this is
fuckin smoke and ice dude
a man you know it could have been worse
man I mean look at fucking people like
Jaco Pastorius I mean that motherfucker
was like the the motivators of yeah like
the and Jimi Hendrix you know he was the
Jimi Hendrix of bass and look at Jimmy
and him and it's like you know you can
have all that talent and if you're you
know if you're suffering on the inside
man you know I mean fucking chakra
there's another tragedy motherfucker got
beat to death by a bouncer you know who
didn't know who he was this is a knock
this Jocko this is different okay it's
Jocko Pistorius lii he actually got
tried to get up on stage at a Santana
show because he was friends with Santana
and he tried to get up on the stage and
he was so fucking messy at the time that
nobody could recognize him and the
bouncers threw him out and he kept being
belligerent and they beat him to death
you know so it's like you can have all
the talent in the world but you know
it's just it's sad because really the
people who are have that gift usually
are people who are really emotionally
well that's why they have that gift
because it's a fucking emotional you
know I think ya know and that can really
become destructive if you don't have a
positive place like if you're really the
only times in my life where I haven't
been all fucked up on drugs was when I
had
think constructive to do something that
gave me a purpose and when you have that
creative emotional self-destructive
thing in you as it really can become
self-destructive if you don't have a
place to put it I mean shit man if you
wouldn't have fucking gone into the
military god knows what the fuck you
would have done with that intensity ya
know the military I've talked about you
know I mean it's like it's a beautiful
thing it's a beautiful thing for me yeah
I mean in Hollywood have been coming to
I just wanted up but you know instead I
want to being soundtrack to you yeah but
a lot of a lot of Fighters you know you
had you know a lot of us in fighters and
stuff and a lot of those guys have a
rough time you know absolutely girl you
know it's hard to be that type of an
intense person and to go to to such
extreme emotional dumps because you know
one second you're just a tough guy on
the street the next second you're a
tough guy in front of fucking thousands
people and there's lights flashing
everywhere you know and then you know
and then some people it's like your
career is done and you're still that
tough guy who still will fuck shit up
but nobody gives a fuck and now if you
fuck somebody I've been going to fucking
jail you know and it's like you know and
drugs become an easy way to deal with
Fame and the confusion of popularity and
the depression it's a heavy thing to go
from to the silence of your room and
your mind there's a buddy mind plays in
a band called Slightly Stoopid and
they're actually a big band and they
play in front they're from San Diego and
one of the guys in he was you know we're
just you know he's got a little kid he's
normal guy but he plays and Slightly
Stoopid and he was you know they just
got back from tour and you know I just
said something about how wasn't he goes
man it just never gets old you know
getting it up in front of 10,000 people
that are singing your songs man he said
it's just like unbelievable I tell you
that I haven't been in tour on tour in a
really long time and I'm last time I gig
doubt
I think the last time I did a tour was
like 2011 or 12 and then a lot of shit
went south in my life go figure
and I needed time to pull myself back up
and get my shit back together I'm going
on tour in about nine days I'll be
playing in Berlin first I'm going to be
playing a bunch of shows in Germany I'll
be playing in Venice in Italy and I'll
be playing in Switzerland I believe in
Belgium in the UK I'm gonna have about
there 12 or 13 shows in 13 or 14 days
I'm really really looking forward to
this I'm not looking forward to driving
five six hour drives I'm not looking
forward to not sleeping in my bed I'm
not looking forward to not waking up
next to my wife I'm not looking forward
to all that shit but I am really fucking
looking forward to doing my thing again
you know I got so involved with jujitsu
and teaching jujitsu and stuff that
music actually started to take kind of a
backseat especially when I had my kids
and I really couldn't tour and stuff
anymore and while I was a choice I made
I mean I could have done whatever the
fuck I wanted but I chose to be there
for my kids now they're older and so on
and life is uh as made uh is possible to
do again I can't wait man and uh you
know this is affecting people the way I
you know you do with music it's a you
make a connection you know you know you
you know what man I'm sitting across
from you now because were fucking out my
did 30 fucking years ago was that book
until you laugh you know good you're
going back to book here you're
you're at that point you know you this
is the Oh same time period where you're
getting arrested for shoplifting here we
go I was in a state of depression and
the drugs helped me stay in it I was
trying to get better as far as wanting
to get off drugs at least half the time
and I would for a few days or a week or
so here or there but I was just too
depressed and one thing would lead to
another then back into the abyss the
death spiral into emptiness nothing and
nowhere nests of course I was all into
Alice in Chains and Nine Inch Nails and
all that fucking depressed drug music
but even as fucked up as I was there was
this wheatgrass juice stand on mission
and I'd still make sure to go get a shot
of wheatgrass juice every day because I
figured hey at least we grass juice is
equal to eating tons of vegetables I was
trying to sort of stay healthy like I
was like okay I know I'm not eating
regularly and I'm not eating very well
so let me at least try to you know and
this is there's nothing I said again I
think it's just a tune I showed him
again do it heroin is like and because
hahaha I'd go to music stores and
pretend I was going to buy shit just
play instruments I'd hang out as long as
I couldn't and leave I actually got
offered gigs while I was playing in
stores I got offered gigs for doing
sessions for different producers but I'd
be all fucked up and missed the session
because I wouldn't know what day it was
and then realized a day or two later I
boozed their business card or whatever
so you just can't get you shit yeah just
I was pretty fucking it was embarrassed
and that was by the way that was taking
place out on the west coast yeah yeah no
and then just go it sounds like I went
to San Francisco to clean get clean off
drugs as like the worst citro fuck ever
clean I don't you've heard of Idaho
we're gonna check out Idaho or yeah
Montana okay then you move back people
move back to New York and now you start
kind of bringing it back together I'd go
for these long runs at night because I
couldn't sleep your girl lived down by
the Twin Towers and I'd run from there
to Central Park and back on the way and
stop by Coney Island high on st. Mark's
Place as he was hanging out for a few
minutes say hi then keep running uptown
to the top of the park I'd run a few
laps around the reservoir then turn
around and head back down on the way
back down and stop at Coney Island high
again and there would be the same people
everyone's pretty much in the same place
just slightly more shit-faced and I'd
hang for a few more minutes and then
keep running it was kind of good to see
that as I was getting my shit together
to see all these people not really doing
anything but standing around getting
fucked up as they got older and did
nothing with themselves it gave me
motivation to keep my shit together
so yeah that's when I started pulling
myself back up you know in one of the
things that helped out with that first
of all you guys got Def Jam you guys got
signed to Def Jam that right we had a
gave you advance yeah we got in advance
to record something for them and then
the deal wound up falling apart so we
wound up being left with the recordings
in our possession that we were able to
then put out ourselves what when I was a
revenge okay which I thought was
actually a really good album but um you
know
it is what it is they should never
manage to stay together bands just had
fucked up karma and around this time you
started your jujitsu career yes yeah
well that's you know I've said it many
times man hen's oh really fucking saved
my life in a lot of ways because uh you
know even though I was doing those you
know twelve mile runs and shit like that
I mean I worked my way up to really
doing long ones I started off doing like
three or four miles I got into it but I
would still have my moments of dislike
depression and him just and I'd want to
get fucked up and stuff but I had
jujitsu and I was living in my rehearsal
studio I didn't even have a fucking
shower I was like bathing on the roof
with filling up two gallon buckets I'd
go up there with like four or five
buckets and just like bathe I was living
in the rehearsal studio I wasn't you
know life was not great but every day
I'd go on a train and that gave me a
place to define myself again you know
when was this with you I was like
January February of 96 okay like I when
I came back I discovered a um ma from
UFC one and two when I was out on the
west coast I'm like what da fuck did he
just do to him like I was probably you
know hit a thousand people in the face I
think a thousand people in the head and
a head butted and bitten whatever but I
never seen a triangle choke stop fuck is
an armbar you know and I made up my mind
this is when I was still on smack I was
like I made up my mind I was like yo if
I ever get the chance to learn that shit
I'm gonna fuck them learn that shit so
when I came back to New York I just kept
going through like black belt magazine
kung-fu mags I'm like one of these
motherfuckers got to move out here
sooner or later this is New York I mean
they can't all stay in California
they're fucking raised these are like a
very big family one of them is I have to
move out here so hen zou get moved I
found an ad hens Oh Kukoc Gracie Kukoc
had said Gracie Cougars still with his
old partner and yeah man I went down and
I met hands on that that changed my life
and that was 21 years ago you know yeah
and and a lot of people are they think I
don't know why they think it but I think
you get there's going to be you know
kind of when you walk in it's going to
be intimidating and it you know I could
tell from the way you wrote about it
handles just like hey what's up rod yeah
other before yeah he just makes you feel
so welcome and so
at home and um he's you know I can say
this and mean it you know I really love
that man you know he he was there for me
through some of the toughest parts of my
life and he didn't give up on me and he
believed in me and sometimes really
that's all you need is somebody to
believe in you and not give up on you
and you know when I got arrested in 2012
and I was all over the papers and the
news and everywhere you know they a lot
of people were shying away from me let's
just say that for those of you don't
know I got jumped by about five or six
guys and I wound up biting a nice chunk
out of one of their faces and slicing a
couple of them and poking one of them in
the process of the me getting jumped I
got 40 stitches I was stabbed and you
know a lot of people were like you know
I can't believe he did that baba bhot
I'm like who did what you know got
jumped you know I got fucking jumped and
then fucking tell me about slicing cut
and stabbed and fucking told me shit
about shit until you got five or six
motherfuckers trying to take your
fucking life you know then you can start
talking about how could you discard you
to fuck you you know you got five dudes
kicking you in your face stomping on you
you had better be willing to stab the
bite or rip someone's balls off you know
that's what people don't fucking
understand who have never experienced
real violence or real potential of death
you know when I first got into jujitsu
it was all about the fighting you know I
was like yeah learn more ways to fuck
people up yeah all right now I really
it's it has nothing to do with fighting
for me anymore I mean I just love the
art I love the relationships that I've
made through the art I love sharing what
I've learned if anything i'm
again you know the fight-or-flight man
I'm Way more likely to run than fight at
this point because I know how bad things
can go yeah you know like I definitely
actually my told the story before there
was a badass marine and his name was da
that's what everyone called him and da
in in the military da store for short
for direct action but that was his
initials too but it just always just
worked and he looked like a superhero
he's a total stud and he was a
gangbanger from Texas and but you know
he joined we're even to be like you
right but he joined bleeds a black kid
but he joined the Marine Corps and he
was in Force Recon he was a total badass
and I said hey man you gotta come and
try to Jitsu out he started training
they like after like six months he came
up to me okay hey man you know cuz I was
like still deploying and he's I wouldn't
see him a lot nice I was like man how
you like your Jitsu he was like man it's
kind of fucked up I already named bro
it's awesome he goes because no man cuz
I used to feel like a real badass
now everybody I see I'm digging my I
might be a pussy is funny it's it's very
humbling you know it is very it is a
very humbling game to play it really is
but you know at the same time though I
to me it is it is that though it is a
game for me it's like when when I think
of fighting or when I think of
self-defense i i believe in jiu-jitsu i
mean i am a hundred percent believer but
jiu-jitsu is fun for me it's not about
violence or self-defense or fighting
there you know yeah because fighting and
violence to me is about ending something
that's ending somebody you know I mean
because I know I could die doesn't I
tell people all the fucking time I'm
like you know you don't got to worry
about like a you know a black belt
kicking your ass
because he's a black belt he's already
matured past the need to kick your ass
you got to worry about that 90 pound
mother
who will stab you without you even
having a chance to say dude we don't
need to have a problem right you know
you got to worry about that dude who's
just so don't give a fuck that before
you even have a chance to say buddy your
shirts wet and you're like oh shit you
know yeah and like we talked about that
on here you know people say like oh I
was gonna get new this guy said
something to my wife what should I have
done I'm like just grab your wife go
home and buy her you know a nice dinner
and ya say honey I love you yeah you
know it's not worth getting stabbed in
it yeah it's not we're and it's not
worth having to stab that junkie in the
neck either and I just know from my own
experience that there's always the
potential that I could go to that
extreme I don't think for one second
because I'm a jiu-jitsu blackbelt that
like I'm just going to submit this guy
and hold them down until the police get
here because you know what that guy may
have three other friends standing in the
shadows behind you or that guy may
fucking start stabbing you when you're
looking to fuck and you're trying to you
know submit him and all of a sudden
you're like why why is my t-shirt wet
boy you know why is my pants wet oh my
god that's fucking red you know yeah I
mean that's just life you know that's
that's why I'm you know now as good as
jujitsu isn't as good as you felt doing
it you go on tour and just before we go
on tour you break up with a girl at the
time yeah blah blah blah back to the
book without the feeling of being needed
I didn't feel I had much purpose in my
life I started falling back into fuck up
mode I was seeing several different
chicks around at that time actually was
it so I don't have to dwell put hey I
wrote the blend I'm gonna say I'm
correcting you yeah no no it wasn't even
so much over just a breakup of a chick I
was actually I'd been with this chick
for a while and she had a daughter and I
had raised her daughter so it was like
you know also not just feeling like
betrayed and everything else that goes
along with the breakup but as any father
or stepfather stepmother you know you
have a
and you know you develop love for a kid
even if it's not yours you know and that
was really what was hard on me more than
anything because the mother was all
fucked up on drugs and I had actually
taken the kid from her and I was raising
the kid for her while she was off just
being a fuckup and then the grandparents
and me gotten contact so I wound up
doing you know but you did it you know
this is your family this is your blood I
think you got to grow up with your
family so that was that's why I was
struggling you know it was because it
was like you know I was I never had a
father that gave a fuck about me so
every time I've been in a child's life
it has really mattered to me you like to
to be to protect them because no one
protected me you know so so that was why
I really started to lose my way again
you know because I was like you know I
don't have a purpose there's no one for
me to love no one for me to care about
no one to feel my my love you know so
yeah the drugs started to fill in the
gap again you know but fortunately that
didn't last forever it's funny man some
of the fucking some of the toughest
motherfuckers actually got the biggest
hearts and that's what a lot of people
don't realize is you know I'm sure that
underneath this rugged exterior you're
quite a sensitive motherfucker you know
and Cree talking about me then I'm
talking about the guy behind you but uh
you know I mean seriously some of the
most illest motherfuckers I've known in
my life have been some of the most
sensitive people on the inside and I
think that part of that illness has been
a shield you know to protect themselves
I know and it probably was with me in a
lot of ways you know if I wasn't as
violent as I was my neighborhood would
have devoured me my environment would
have devoured me if I wasn't as yep okay
so to your point I agree with you and
that's one of the reasons why I think
going back to jiu-jitsu or boxing or
wrestling or muy Thai but when when you
me when we're kids young men going back
to whole thing about proving yourself
how you gonna prove yourself that you're
tough when you're a kid you go out you
fight and you beat people up because you
do the shit you stupid stuff when you do
jujitsu you know you're tough and and
you know when you look at some guy in
the street like hey that guy might stab
me but if he doesn't I'm gonna I will
choke him out to take me 15 seconds so I
don't have to do anything to prove
that's why I think it's for me and I
think it was Tim Ferriss asked me this
question he's like what makes a man or
something like that and I was like to
your point for me learning how to fight
so learning jujitsu getting married in
having kids and going into combat those
are the three things that I was like
okay those three things they were
evolutionary to me and they were the
three things that happened where I said
okay I don't have to walk around trying
to prove myself to this guy or that guy
I know how to fight I I don't even not
need to impress that girl over there I
got a girl you know and I got and I got
mouths to feed so I can't act like an
idiot and I know I'm not a coward in if
shit goes down I know that I will do the
right thing I know that hundred percent
so those are the things that to me gave
me like security as a man and so the
same thing that you're saying how you
know when we're young and there's you're
out there just to try and proven and
protect and shield your your emotion
your sensitive yeah you know yeah that's
what you do and so a good way to get
over that in my opinion is instead of
having to fake it you learn it for real
I wish I would have to get to when I was
yeah
a young kid that would have helped me
immensely you know then um well I mean
just to just one person I'll just
and briefly is a high-end Gracie another
brother that I truly loved and you know
he died in 2007 was a very tragic and um
here's a guy who was feared by 99.9% of
the people that knew him and the 1% of
people that knew him fucking loved them
and he was you know it's like town
saying like you know you got these
people who are fucking dangerous
motherfuckers you don't even want to
look at them wrong or for too long you
look but if they fucking love you man
nobody better fuck with you ever go
there you got a partner in the book we
were talking about he came home we
fought in Japan yeah comes home he gives
you you know you just had your first kid
you two grand yeah not for nothing just
for being you
and I didn't want to take it and he's
like shut the fuck up
it's for the baby you know I mean I know
motherfuckers my whole life we didn't do
that for me you know yeah yeah no Dean
Dean Lister you don't want one of my
games and training partners and all that
but he's got some funny stories about
high in any he that high and was fuckin
crazy
yeah black Heinz know he was a crazy
motherfucker but but but to be honest
though I never had any crazy experiences
with him because I feel like when he
looked into my eyes he knew he didn't
have to prove anything to me yeah you
guys kind of counted it out what psycho
yeah there was absolutely today well it
was like you know I don't have to prove
I'm a bad as to you you don't have to
prove you're a bad as to me let's just
go out and chill that's good you know
we'd go out and like go to stupid movies
like you know we go out and just work on
his English you know like I've never
heard you know yeah we had fun you know
but we never like gotten brawls and got
you know right
but I mean you know he died oh yeah he
got hot he got arrested yeah it was all
bad scene but you know again it's like
you know again this is somebody who's
very emotional and sadly
you know like many people started using
drugs as a way to deal with shit I guess
I don't want to say to dealership but
maybe just as a little bit of an escape
you know you got to figure what kind of
fucking uh you know I mean his favorite
song was a boy named Sue by Johnny Cash
and he really felt like he was living
that life by being him you know with the
name Gracie and having to be you know
always having to step up always having
to prove himself and always happened to
be a badass and I think that when you're
forced to react and deal with things on
that level all the time and especially
when you are actually a nice person at
heart or a sensitive person at heart
when you're forced to always take that
stance at SH it's a fucking tough one
and you know that's a hard road to
travel and you know I always have him
with me always I always have him sitting
on one shoulder and handle sitting on
the other and you know when their lack I
yet when I have big when I'm confronted
by you know serious shit I think about
you know how one would react and how the
other would react and and then I try to
find my own sense in there yeah yeah I
mean it is kind of a classic example of
everything that we're talking about me
yeah for all for all practical purposes
you shouldn't be here right now
usually a loser dead or in jail or
whatever else any he did he did yeah
that was going down the same path but he
didn't get made into makeup you know and
that's you know that's the that's the
thing man I feel really fortunate that I
had music because I think that it gave
me a tool to to gave me a paddle to row
my way through the shit but it also came
with its own look shit you know it's
funny because you know I probably should
have encouraged my kids to learn more
about music and be more musical but I
encouraged them to be jiu-jitsu guys
because I felt that you know mm hey sway
safe work it was less awkward
yeah that exes you know you might get
punched in your face a bunch of times
but at least you won't you know at least
it won't be life punching you in your
face you know and there's a you know all
kinds of drama around it you described
it again a spinal tap
you know just the rock and roll crap
cro-mags comes to an end for the most
part and you end up putting that out a
record Hartley's war yeah and um good
good rock and roll music baby and now
and also during that time you you had
some kids yeah and you know you met the
mother of your kids and she wanted to go
to school and so you took off some time
to just yeah I pretty much put my
musical career on hold you know to take
care of your kids yeah and you know one
of the paragraphs that you wrote in here
is awesome talking about your kids and
you say and this is something I
completely related to I'll tell you the
first time I looked down at the other
end of the mat and saw my boys training
there's one of the greatest moments of
my life my youngest son spent his
birthday at the Academy with George st.
Pierre and all the rest of the fellas my
eldest son had his birthday there with
all the graces and about 30 kids a full
house and a cake with the hens of Gracie
Academy logo on it my sons have grown up
with hens alike and uncle Egor holes
gregor daniel Neiman all the guys treat
my boys like family they've known their
instructor magno gamma since birth he
came to the hospital to see them hours
after they were born and hens oh they
have known since they were days old my
eldest and I have been on Greyhound
buses in the middle of the night
traveling hours away to represent our GA
and ki Manzo Gracie I have competed with
my son's net nationally ranked grappling
submission in jujitsu events one of my
proudest moments was when we both
competed at the same event my son took
first place in his division
and I took second place in the expert
masters division in the 30 to 35 year
old age bracket although I was 44 hen
zou joked when he first saw my son this
is the proof that even though the fruit
is rotten the seed can still be good
that's uh yeah we we all know that one
and you know I I guess it's when you see
your kid doing anything that you love
doing and you see get to see your kid do
it echo you got that in your future when
you see your kid I'll let you see your
daughter on the mat right now and that's
that's cool when you see your kid like
training and I'm to the point right now
my son's a big kid he's 14 but he's I
can roll with him and like I legit like
roll with him taller than me yeah he's
good my 14 years six foot buck 80 yeah
oh it happen eh yeah and it's awesome
when you when you get to Train and you
know the other thing I noticed while I
surf and with my son as good as it feels
to surf like it's good there's a really
good feeling you serve as good as that
feels it feels just as good if not
better to be paddling back out after
catching a wave and see my son just just
just getting after it it's so awesome
it's like jeez I love you sit there a
lot you know I'll just like that was
like watching him and and you try not
you try to like contain yourself movie
is so awesome it's so cool and and you
know you see no but I got a bunch of
daughters too and seeing them do when
they basically when you see your kids
kicking ass it's tough man it's numb and
it makes you feel fucking good you know
yeah I mean you see them doing positive
shit especially bang because God knows I
mean I've done so much negative shit
that when i see my kids doing something
positive you feel really good no going
back to the book talking about your dad
my dad my father died from a fire so
your fuck your father and we didn't talk
about him much he'd gone away and then
he'd like had intermittent
back with you over the wells actually
once he was out of my life I you know my
mom left him when I was really young you
know I never saw him again and I only
actually spoke to him twice on the phone
I got like one letter from him and it
was a like one or two pages and a
cassette of him playing guitar in a
halfway house and basically is
apologizing a lot and yeah you know he
knew he made a lot of bad choices but um
fucked up though because you know I mean
he was all you know he's fucked up on
heroin and he was an alcoholic and not
he he actually like kicked my mother in
the stomach when she was like very
pregnant with me you know and um yeah
that's how much he didn't want me so
you know that's a hard pill to swallow
you know when your father would rather
be strung out on heroin and be your
father
but uh but I've managed to turn it
around you know because I love being
with not just my kids but I teach the
kids at the ends of Gracie Academy and
so the childhood that I didn't really
have I get to experience and live
vicariously through all these other kids
and I get to be a role model to them
whereas I didn't have any and you know
I'm teaching these little boys and
little girls how to defend themselves
and how to fight how to fight and have
honor and how to lose with honor and
always to shake their opponents hand
it's a good job whether they win or
whether they lose and how to have that
respect for their opponent as well as
themselves you know when I teach these
kids that you know there's like they say
in jujitsu is no losing intricate shoe
you win or you learn and when I can take
a kid who you know I've worked with a
lot of kids who have you know varying
degrees of spectrum disorders whether
they've had autism or physical issues
and to see the improvement that they
make not just in jujitsu but in in their
social skills you know kids who are so
insecure that they won't look at you and
now they're making eye contact with you
talking to you collecting on your face
and shaking your hand and their chest is
out their shoulders are back and they're
now you know that you know so where I
didn't have certain things you know at
the end of the day it gave me something
else it gave me the ability to value
that that relationship that you can have
with children and a lot of people take
for granted a lot of I even get
disappointed with a lot of the parents
that
bring their kids to jiu-jitsu because I
feel like you know you a lot of people
hand their kids off to everybody else to
teach them how to do everything you know
they don't work on stuff at home with
them they don't sit there and teach them
you know I get you know when you have a
kid that doesn't know how to do it
fucking jumping-jack you're like what
the fuck the cupid do with you they
don't roll around with you they don't
teach you how to do a somersault I have
to teach you which is your left in your
right hand like really you know I don't
think people value that time enough and
I have said it before it's like you know
your your good job made your career may
change several times in your life your
spouse may not be your spouse for
different but your kids are always going
to be your kids so you really have to
cherish and value that and the time that
you spend with them because they'll
always be your kids and that woman that
you think you're in love with may leave
you you may fall out of love your job
may you know fold but your kids you want
to be your kids forever and they'll
always need you even if it's just
emotionally to know that you're there
even if they're not seeing you every
year or every six months or even if you
don't speak to them they you know you
still have to be an emotional and
spiritual backbone even from afar you
know I know I mean I you know I forgive
you dad yeah
uuhh when he died you actually flew down
to Texas to uh you know yeah basically
the berry area and that was cool too I
got to finally meet his mother and
learned about my father's side of the
family so there was some closure in that
but I buried him myself I wouldn't let
anybody throw dirt on top of him and uh
and as it turned out I want to bury my
mom too with my with my youngest son
you're um you're now you kind of
wrapping up this book when you were
writing it and and you know you kind of
closed it out and when you closed out
you said this at the end of the book I
guess part of being a father is learning
how to eat a certain amount of shit you
do it for your kids because they need
you you just throw a little on a little
salt and pepper and maybe some Tabasco
and smile because you got to be there
for them one thing my father said was
I've got all these years of experience
experiences that I don't know what to do
with and that's kind of how I feel with
my boys how do I come in for a graceful
landing after so much fucking turbulence
in my life hopefully I can guide them
better than I was guided or at least
maybe they will learn from my mistakes
God knows I've made enough for everybody
and if I remember correctly you that was
the kind of the end of the book and then
you were moving on and then and then
2012 comes along and there's like a
hardcore fest you know they're kind of
bringing back like I don't know if it's
like a reunion fest bringing back a
bunch of old bands and the chrome acts I
should say a formation of the crow mags
or
members of the cro-magnon man you call
it the faux mags let's just keep it real
they say we're gonna play a fake ass
band that does my songs with one of the
old members you know and they were going
to play yes and you were like okay um
you know I'm gonna go check it out and
you know what I'll bring my bass maybe
get on stage I mean you know what there
was actually two members of the original
group playing at night and my intention
was to go and to extend my hand and say
you know what guys I heard I love you
guys as much as I hate you I love you
you know and just because I like to
think that at the end of the day two
people that we're friends can laugh at
their own foolishness you know I'd like
to think that that people are able to
look beyond their egos and forgive each
other for being idiots because God knows
we all are at times so yeah I went to
that show with the hope of maybe even
being invited up onstage to play a few
songs with them and well the rest is
history yeah you show up and then here
you go you're walking through the place
you go to the you get invited up the
dressing room hey come say hi and then
here we go back to book as soon as I
walked in I literally walked into the
room took two steps the door shut and I
got punched from behind out of the
corner of my eye I could see was some
big dude with tattoos it was like BAM he
hit me hard I saw a bit of a flashbulb
like you see when you get hit out of
nowhere and you don't expect it and then
it was a rain of fists and kicks that
were coming from every direction of the
room and this was a small room it's a
dressing room and I started falling
forward I fell onto the couch and rolled
onto my back and started throwing up
kicks just instinctively to get people
off me I was getting jumped by at least
four or five guys probably more there
was a bunch of people in the room I
think I counted seven or eight although
I couldn't even really count in all the
chaos at that point I reached into my
pocket I had a little knife I pulled it
out and it still had its sheath on so I
just tried to punch the first person
that was in front of me and get them the
fuck off me everybody started screaming
I saw the door of the dressing-room open
and I started yelling security security
and then I left and then I saw somebody
pull the door shut and I thought to
myself fuck these dudes their intention
is to fuck me up and they don't want no
one to see it they're trying to beat the
shit out of me and I've seen all these
dudes in a pack kicking people to the
point where their brains don't fucking
work and I knew right then if I didn't
get the fuck out of that situation I was
not going to make it home in one piece
so I started flailing the knife as
furiously as I could just to get myself
the fuck out of that situation and
toward the door everybody's screaming
he's got a knife he's got a knife and I
don't even know who it was or how they
ended up in my face I guess it was when
they were lunging in my arm I bet
whoever was in front of my face I tore a
big piece out of his cheek
it was obvious it was a setup when I saw
the door pulled shut I was fighting for
my life these guys wanted to kick the
shit out of me stomped me out and no one
would see it there would be no West
witnesses and that would be that but
that shit was not going down I bet the
one guy's face I just tore his fucking
cheek open right below his eye he was
screaming blood was running down his
face I bent someone's wrist as they were
trying to get the knife out of my hand I
just didn't bite it I tried to tear a
piece out that's when the bouncers broke
into the room at this point I was on the
bottom of a pile trying to stab and kick
and everybody started trying to grab my
hand they're like give me the knife
give me the knife I'm security I ended
up getting dragged out onto the balcony
getting kicked I got one good kick in my
right face and I'm surprised it didn't
knock my teeth out one dude scream get
on your stomach get on your stomach put
your hands out in front of you and this
one big guy stepped on my back with both
of his feet and another guy was looking
at my face and squeezing my throat I
don't know who the fuck was who one guy
looked at me and said motherfucker I'll
kill you I'll kill you I will kick you
in your fucking face until you are dead
motherfucker
if you don't stop moving I saw Pete from
sick of it all in the crowd of people
next to us with a freaked out look on
his face he was gesturing with his hands
for me to calm down and stop resisting
he kept mouthing the words hardly killed
Harley please stop kill Harley that's
when one guy said put your hands out in
front of you I asked her you a cop he
was like yeah so I said show me your
badge and at that point the boys in blue
came running up
stairs I was like fine I'm not moving
anymore cuff me I stuffed my hands out
in front of me face down on the floor I
feel to know that I've been stabbed I
got 40 stitches in my leg thank God it
was in my leg only the cops cuffed me
turned me over and that's when I saw the
wound in my leg
it was grotesque the blood was bubbling
out of it the fashion attendants were
literally hanging out of my leg that's
why people started saying that it was a
compound fracture the cops cuffed me
they put me on a chair carried me down
the stairs and put me in the ambulance
it wasn't until I got cleaned up in the
ambulance that they realized it was a
stab wound it was fun night so and you
kinda already talked about this I mean
they basically arrest you immediately
yeah total melee yeah and actually when
I got arrested I thought we were all
going to get arrested and there was this
going to be like a bar fight everybody
got pulled in but all these fucking guys
started making statements that were
basically that I've launched into the
room and started just stabbing people so
you know you got a roomful of people
saying he did it he did it even and you
have one of me saying what the fuck
happened and who the fuck you think is
gonna get walked out in cuffs yeah and
you end up on Rikers yeah
Rikers Island for those of you don't
know from around the world is a jail
new york jaya Rikers Island and
meanwhile the media you you know is put
now all these diversion that's getting
out to the media which is that you
instigated it you were horrible person
and etc etc and now you had a try cause
Island going back to book all night you
hear people screaming and talking shit
the youth offenders were in the same
building as us right next door so all
night you hear them screaming suck my
dick motherfucker I'll fuck you up suck
my dick somebody
fuck you stop by the hour fuck all night
riot cops came in all the fall fucking
night then as soon as the Sun would
start coming up and they'd finally shut
up the seagulls would start making noise
it was non-stop ironically it was the
best sleep I've gotten in a while ever
since I started going through the
bullshit if my ex my life had truly
become a nightmare I remember at one
point I was looking out through my
window through the gates it was a
beautiful sunny day and I could hear the
birds and a butterfly flew past my
window and I was like damn right then
and there that butterfly represented
freedom what I wouldn't do to be free
right then I had no idea what it was
going to happen my lawyer told me I was
possibly looking at two and a half years
in jail rough yeah I remember that
butterfly very they would be happy oh
yeah get that yeah I get that
I don't want a pen laughter you know
it's also the favorite prison yeah yeah
it was not in France yeah it's like
whatever I was yeah yeah they were on
the prison I was a fucking no joke in
prison Tyler yeah no joke prison and at
you know we always find the good in
things and you got a visitor that came
to this yeah yeah a woman by the name of
Laura yes he was now goes by the name of
Laura Lee Flanagan and she was she had
interviewed you for yeah for what for
what website she had a website called
New York natives calm and yeah they did
a lot of stories and then you know about
things happening in the city and
interesting people and this and that and
blogs and stuff and she interviewed me
as a native icon because um you know you
wouldn't know it from looking at her in
or by her career I mean she's a lawyer
and she's you know from the Upper East
Side she's
amazing and um she used to be in the
hardcore for a brief moment in her
childhood so she knew of the cro-mags
she had seen his play and a friend of
hers they were doing she did a story on
see squad squad that I used to live in
you know and um it was really good story
it was very interesting and one of the
people she spoke to around that time
said you should speak to Harley he used
to live there and he'd be interesting
for it you know you interview and she
pursued it and we started talking we did
the interview and I started sending her
some chapters of this book that I was
still working on at the time and I don't
remember how exactly it came about I
mean she has a PhD and she's done a lot
of writing and stuff in her life and a
lot of editing and stuff and she really
enjoyed the book and I needed some help
in the editing I mean I have a seventh
grade education so there was in the book
was basically one sentence and I gave it
was she gets the award for life and it
is challenges no shit I mean it was it
was one day with what I met her tonight
I was like yeah you edited the book and
then we cuz I was an English major too
and we had a moment of like you I gave
her a moment of mutual respect and
admiration over her hamper you know I
know how much you see or imagine I mean
this book with okay it's like 300 pages
it would have been a thousand pages and
it was like I said it was one sentence
and and we literally had to like okay
we've got ten stories about fighting now
can we lose these other 20 okay we've
got ten stories about like almost
overdosing can we lose the other thirty
okay we've got you know so if there was
a you know I mean it would have been a
fuckin endless book I mean I took a lot
of fights and a lot of drugs and a lot
of rock-and-roll dumbness and just a lot
of actually good stories didn't make it
in you know but I think I
think we got left with a pretty good
picture of everything you know everybody
it's actually funny because when I had
the book signing a lot of people that I
went to school with in like fifth and
sixth grade from my neighborhood showed
up and they were like dude you nailed it
man you described the neighborhood so
perfectly and the funny shit is actually
one of the hit men the guys from my
block was at my book signing and I
actually asked him I was like dude who
the fuck was big man and he's like oh
man that was crazy Eddie and Crazy Eddie
was a brand of PCP we always smoke back
then so I'm sure that's why he got the
nickname but um he's like a man you know
he's got an auto body shop down
grandkids 505 like well like with all I
said what's up yeah but it was funny
because literally like all that actually
mattered more to me than the reviews of
the book was when I had people who were
shared those experiences and people who
grew up in the neighborhood I mean even
more so than the cro-mags parts of the
books like the people who are like yo
you fuckin nailed it man this is exactly
what the city was like I try to tell
people all the time and they don't get
it so I bought them a copy just so they
could fucking see for themselves that
was when I knew that I nailed it you
know that that was what that was you
know there was a couple publishers that
didn't want to put it out there like yet
we can't touch this ya know I like an
agent you don't know how you know um
your wife had to lose like twenty two
fights Terry's and I had to do for this
podcast I got rid of there you know we
discussed a fraction of the crazy shit
that ya know I mean we haven't even
touch that mean we could sit and talk
for the fucking - you know yeah Morrow
and you know but uh but I do you know I
just the book gets it across and that's
why like I said I thought I was familiar
with the hardcore scene and factually I
mean I went to CBGB's I don't know that
hundreds of times when I was a kid and
all shows all over the East Coast Boston
yeah so but I still didn't recognize
that there was this much chaos
and speaking of chaos I'm going to go
back to the book here you're sitting in
jail and here we go because of all the
people talking shit and trying to frame
me the record label I just signed with
was having second thoughts everything
was coming to a head and now I had to
prepare for a court date facing four
felony counts of second-degree assault
and weapons charges for biting and
stabbing people if there was ever and I
teach the kids if there was ever a time
that I was about to lose my shit I'd
have to say it was around this time if
there was ever a time someone would
relapse into drugs alcohol or some
self-destructive shit it was a time like
this
I actually went out and got drunk a few
nights which I hadn't done in a long
time I was really depressed I was really
at the bottom I could have easily spun
out of control but I said to myself fuck
that I'm not gonna let myself go and do
that to myself or my kids or give in and
give the satisfaction to my enemies I'm
a black belt I have more control than
that now I'm not who I once was I'm
stronger than that and then the next
court date I wound up getting an
adjournment again because they didn't
have a case against me and again it got
pushed back while the DA continued to
try and build it until finally in
December of 2012 they contacted my
lawyer and said to appear in court on
Friday December 14th when the entire
case was dismissed yeah and yeah it you
at that point you know you kind of get
back on track yeah and you're teaching
jujitsu like you said and there's a good
quote here when you're teaching jujitsu
after you had the incident and at
Webster Hall and one of the parents said
you know so in the ear he comes back to
start teaching the kids class again
after he's been all over the front page
of all the papers everybody's looking at
me like oh shit I walked in the Academy
and like every half the people were
super happy to see me in there they'd
have looked at me like like a guns
just walked it I was like you know
cooking wild with one of them one of the
moms one of the moms those quarters is
saying well at least I know my kid isn't
getting taught you Jitsu by a pussy
yeah that was what that look at they
Denso lack and yet there's still um
there's still hard times because at this
point you're you're losing custody of
your kids
yeah and that was you know that's you
know I got to tell you I mean I that
that has been the biggest trial and
tribulation I have dealt with and
obviously I've dealt with many but you
know especially someone who didn't
really have responsible people like
really raising me you know I it really
hurts to not be there for your kids
everyday you know because I really I
used to cherish those moments more than
anything I mean just walking into school
in the morning and the little
conversations we would have on the way
to school and you know taking them you
Jitsu and you know I really was the the
main caretaker I was with them all day
you know I did everything with them took
them to the parks museums the basis of
that ISM and to then have that taken
away it's difficult to again to not
start fucking off you know especially
when you're you know dealing with
depression and and all that shit and
again you know just like like I said you
know we now have someone to love and to
feel that that uh reciprocation and you
don't feel needed
it's hard to not feel needed you know
but I I you know I went through all the
process of family coordinates and then
you know unfortunately they don't live
with me full-time but I see them a lot
and um
you know through
knows who's been through a divorce and
as kids unfortunately I was never
married to their mother in lujah but
anybody who's had been in that situation
knows it's not easy and it comes with a
lot of challenges and so now my
challenge is is to try to be involved
with my kids lives as much as I can and
to try to give them some moral guidance
and manhood guidance from from a
distance you know and sadly they didn't
see you know me and their mother act
like complete and total savages towards
the end of the relationship because
people when they break up they typically
don't know how to act or behave even in
front of their kids so but you know what
even all of this is made me a stronger
and wiser person because I feel that it
is again forced me to look at myself and
you have choices in every situation how
you're going to react and now you you
know what you're going to do and now I
really think about the consequences of
everything I know I can't just uh react
explosively if somebody does or says
something to me on the street because I
know that that could cost me my freedom
it could cost that my kids their father
could cause my wife her husband so you
know even even losing my kids has been a
a learning experience that I hope God
forbid they ever you know wind up with
kids and separated and this and that but
hopefully even this bad stuff can help
then become better men and smarter men
and hopefully better smarter than I was
you know and I just try I try to believe
really that in the end love wins you
know
yeah um there was still one more thing
that you had to overcome in the book and
you know sometimes man I just read a big
chunk of the books that I'm reviewing
because it's just a way it's written in
a way it goes together and the story
that it tells I just don't really want
to change and I just want to put it out
there so I'm kind of going to do that
right here after all the madness in my
life and the recent drama surrounding
Webster Hall my arrest losing my kids
starting a new relationship getting my
kids back in my life and dealing with
all the drama of family court
my mom was stricken with terminal cancer
after a major operation in what seemed
like a recovery things took a turn for
the worse through it all she remained
supportive in my battle for my kids and
I started spending a lot more time with
her it's fucked up when you know your
mom or dad is dying you go through your
whole life with all the baggage and shit
that they put on you and all the shit in
the world and your friends put on you
and then there comes a time when you
realize you have to put it all down then
just let it all go I was with her as
much as possible during the last few
months we spent more time together than
we had in years we even left the city
one day just a month before she died to
spend some time at a horse stable she
loved horses and she hadn't been around
them since you as a child she said it
was the most beautiful day in her entire
life
and later she spent the night and then
the next three nights at my apartment we
had such a good time that she completely
forgot to take her pain medication I
hope I can face death with as much
dignity the way she has handled it I've
never seen a braver person in my life
she makes all the men I know look like
cowards
sadly she only saw my kids twice during
her last few months but the time that
they spent together was amazing and very
meaningful and picked up her spirits and
I don't know and I know that she took
great comfort in the fact that I'm
finally in a place in my life where
things are coming together in a positive
way I just wish she could have been here
with us longer she died Monday June 15th
2015
at the funeral her ashes were carried
out and placed on a table they were in a
box not meant to be buried a beautiful
statue of a crying angel we all took
part in reading from Bible verses I held
on to my son Jonah and he cried quietly
my son hardly stood behind me with my
girlfriend trying to keep his composure
as tears rolled down his face at the end
of the service a slight drizzle of rain
started again when everyone was done
consoling each other and people started
walking away I looked at the box sitting
on the table surrounded by flowers with
the hole in the ground beside it to
cemetery workers arrived with shovels
and a rake and I walked back and asked
if I could cover her with soil myself as
I had done for my father 13 years
earlier I explained that I didn't feel
right about someone who didn't know my
mother covering her with dirt they
understood
I thank them I took the box with the
angel off the table I kissed it my sons
kissed it and I got down on my knees and
put it in the ground one of the cemetery
workers handed me a shovel and I started
to fill the hole my youngest son who had
been crying came over next to me got on
his knees and started to help me fill
the hole with his hands grabbing pieces
of soil and putting them in picking out
rocks so none would damage her box as we
filled it and his tears stopped I put
down the shovel and we both finished by
hand and then I raked the soil over and
we patted down the earth with our hands
and it was done they were so sad and so
beautiful the next day was Father's Day
when I started writing this book I
didn't know what the end was going to be
or what I wanted to say besides telling
the story of my life and setting the
record straight but now it's so obvious
what is about closure
and that that wraps up the book yeah and
look no one has lived a perfect life
we've all made mistakes involved done
things that can't be undone and we've
gone places that we should not have gone
but we all have the opportunity to
redeem ourselves and it starts with
confessing what we've done it starts
with owning it and then getting on the
right path and staying on the right path
and staying on that path the correct
path it takes discipline and it takes
utility and it takes courage and it's
hard but what is the other choice
what else can we do let the darkness
completely consume us live for instant
gratification wherever we can find it be
over taken by temptation and vice know
do not accept that I hear from a lot of
people that struggle with all these
things they're caught they're drowning
they're folding under the weight of pain
and suffering and misery and addiction
then they ask me what I think
but what I think and what Harley proves
is that you are better than that you are
better and you can triumph over these
dark forces you can become better you
can be better for yourself and for the
people around you for all of us
hold the line stay clean and never
surrender
you overcame a lot of stuff man I have
enough still trying you know yeah I
guess everyone is yeah this is the time
in the podcast why we have that go here
one of the many reasons okay where do we
get a chance to decompress a little bit
fully asleep yeah you get to ask a
couple questions yeah yeah the one you
know if they played my mind a little
quick yeah you know like when after the
think
where'd they start wearing I got you
guys in my leg it's you can see when I
walk oh yeah yeah like low early yeah
cuz you think the thought or they
thought is a compound right yeah go see
sure is white yeah yeah hanging out so
everybody thought that was bone may
sticking yeah that makes sense dumb
member kind of by your shin liking a
type like Ron how fracture that yeah no
I didn't even know it happened until I
scuffed on the floor crawl see it's not
so crazy like when you're in like the
moment so much you can get straight up
stabbed yeah dude stab with your stuff
hanging out happen to be hanging on yeah
like what what yeah okay what's next
okay I was it all my days off all thing
okay so crater here's your eyeball
thanks yeah I mean that's why that's why
I'm so sketchy when it comes to like as
much as I you know I gotta admit it like
that shit was fun I like a good
adrenaline good scrub like a good
violent confrontation a good fight it is
fun but it was also like life and death
you know so it's like you know like I
said you know like I had that one fight
in California where I'm running into a
mob of all these dudes like
you know I was high off that shit for
like a week my adrenaline was like I
felt like I could make it grow
yeah uh and then like a week later my
what the fuck man yeah what the fuck was
that shit yeah you know so like as much
as you know yeah it was fun how often do
you get to have a street fight anymore
you know shit especially at my age fuck
you guys yes for like a good time it
play with all the other shit all the
fucking ripple effects that came along
we rock I mean I see my kids fuck I may
be in jail fuck over the next three
years like fuckin you know protecting my
ass from bubbles over here yeah yeah a
fuckin you know those shit was like damn
I can't we forget can't we just all get
along can't we all just have a street
fight it's like okay we all just happen
to be fine just get on with our shit you
know but you know let you know shit
happened oh yeah we gonna do man yeah
yeah we put everything into perspective
the whole getting into street fight
doesn't seem quite as dope yeah you know
it changes when you got responsibility
yeah that's the responsibilities you
make a speaking a response you know
responsibilities we're not getting any
younger um so we'll talk about on it
first as always um
so on it supplement you know you know
but on it know most people used to know
but on Oh in the West because they do I
think that's how you motherfucker so big
as your honor I need to get ready
I need to get on it yeah yeah what the
fuck is I put on it actually true but
here in der and that's what I thought
too
with supplements where it's like yeah it
takes up him until get you big I found
that that's not necessarily the case
so the supplements that I take that we
take mm-hmm therefore like you got a
suitcase with some in America we're
talking I'll get you out I'm getting on
it motherfucker yeah well the reason I'm
in another shit I'm gonna get out
business stuff is illegal
I want to be all the right stuff oh yeah
yeah you only used a movement towards
the night yeah and the light is on it is
this is the way from with our delight
yes but you know like you do for example
the one the ones that I take meeting now
who's krill oil oh yeah yeah yeah right
another inflammation yeah exactly right
about that crow so the so on it is like
a real reputable company that like you
know you're getting because you can get
supplement are you able today yeah you
get like they say krill and you're
getting like working you know rattle
yeah it's rats well yeah shit you know I
like yeah that's cool yeah
yeah like then we watch it you know the
rest of its all vitamin E Joe yeah
exactly right so this on it's like known
to be the best I'm you know I forget
down
actually I read the the you know the
main guy his like he has a extensive
background in like uptake you know how
like you can get a calcium supplement
but that supplement won't deliver the
uptake so your body doesn't you're not
even breaking it down or absorbing it
yes exact so there's only snow there's a
lot of different vitamins and all that
should I try to get all my vitamins
through food
yes you know if I can you know yeah
that's optimal yeah so that's that's
kind of the point there were like yet
when you get it with food you know that
you're gonna get the best uptake but for
the most part you know if you if you're
getting your you know I don't know
protein from soybeans or something yes
yeah I don't get as much protein as you
animals over here I'm a vegetarian right
I have been since like 82 what's it like
that well yeah I also think is one of
the reasons why I managed to maintain a
certain level of health and sanity just
identified all the drugs I think that
that actually you know helped me the
wheatgrass
hey everybody we broadcast if you're
shooting
heroine maker we craft and always wear a
condom when you're shooting a good lord
but ya figure that's optimal from the
food but on Italy they like they do a
good job in knowing like the optimum way
to uptake like the nutrients see I found
that out nice so you know so you know
that's a good one anyway one of the
reasons so we do krill oil
Strongbow new and I just started Jacque
always does it for you for your joints
so you did you know now I have some
joint issues yam and after a while
that's how and yeah then the crew helps
a lot a lot a lot that's good I'd say
that's the number one one thing so I
would recommend huh
I'd recommend a few more other things
too but just for different reasons like
that this one warrior bar it's buffalo
you're vegetarian so never mind a
buffalo meat lob maybe you know like
they make not I know buffalo meat better
for you I mean I know you know it
doesn't have all the fucking hormones I
don't know if you could necessarily
offer it to the gods with God you're
offering it in some Native American
guide you could all go there's a lot of
guys out there the warrior bar no it's
good
I know that one yeah you know the fear
Hindu there's enough God pick from this
room I got plenty hey you know I think
they'd be down for the shrimp tech as
well which is stuff it's made from a
mushroom you know the mushroom name
different kind of mushroom your
initiation I was doing enough Omega
where is important started this out do
it but it is just to help you up take
oxygen we're not athletic yeah yeah you
are yeah yeah yeah no yeah I collagen
level you need it especially as you get
older your oxygen look it doesn't travel
as well and yes I just realized there's
great there's no greater joy for echo
then when someone's on the on the on the
podcast as a guest that wants to know
about this stuff
Pablo because well now meet me at Pratt
like when I'm training or whatever they
look really what's with the crew or like
you do your thing and they brought I'm
like doing a sales pitch to know it
seems like it anyway and get them a
krill shirt yeah
I'm gonna get a wheel I asked me about
the crude oil
she knows I don't don't change I'm
telling you in the mornings I told the
story before chuckle any times in the
mornings my daughter she's she's like
for now but you know when she's like
three she'd come in which the only
person in the world that hasn't heard
the story is Harley fuck yeah you and me
talked for three hours right there HECO
get to talk for an hour now about the
bailout go yeah you can Tory and I was a
good girl here my anyway she jumped that
she'd she'd wake me up jump on my back
so you know now I gotta stand up out of
bed cold sore from whatever with a
three-year-old on my back and it be
stiff I got to do the correct form to
get up otherwise you know you turn your
back your knees all that stuff after
like it was just under a week krill oil
no factor it's like I was already warm
that's the feeling you want some krill
oil no I was just gonna interject I
gotta give my father-in-law some
approximate he rest in peace she turned
me on to the krill oh all right - no not
your father
all right let me see I love yellow top
father-in-law's they've been around yeah
they've been around a little longer than
us ya know he turned me on and even
though you know I am a vegetarian I do
take the official the krill oil and
whatnot because you know I mean look I I
started off as a vegetarian for whatever
spiritual reasons and whatever health
reasons now I I believe it's best to
have a mainly vegetarian diet but if my
body starts saying mother fucking needs
some fish like you you are like about to
drop dead if you don't get some serious
protein surge like I will do what I what
my body tells me to do yeah yeah yeah I
think humans are designed to be able to
do vegetarian and meat that's why we
have two different kinds of teeth I you
know when we were hunter-gatherers you
know you were gathering a lot more than
you were hunting realistically because
one thing wasn't always easy with a
fucking spear yeah you know so you know
I listen to my body a lot to you and my
body usually tell
you know crops up total frost it well
the good thing about the krill weather
this mean however much this means how
they harvest the krill is also yes yeah
so I'm out there that though it is good
they use like eco-friendly chips what
you watch the video friendly shit yeah I
told Adam robro I'm a really big robot
gonna do yeah not a go friendly shit
look at the video is good okay
Lauren to maybe just me down their own
podcast called the echo on it pod
I'm gonna people need to know I mean you
gotta fucking to make your own line echo
foil something no man on it one I think
they have a nailed it a traitor
all right on it I'm gonna get on it
interestingly enough how your
father-in-law turns up my father not
turn me into it I didn't listen to him
by the way I only do it when jock was
like yeah I take girls I was like okay
I'm going to take my father-in-law yeah
whatever yeah anyway anyway on it calm
/aa code that's how you can get 10% off
of all your stuff whatever you like well
I'm just gonna ask him directly
get me the table it's like yeah that's
what that's what I did in the beginning
to take your sugar oil yeah also good
way to support Amazon click-through so
what's all that if you shop Amazon right
I guess I have yeah we're okay that's
how you ever how I just said you're the
only person that hadn't heard like a
little so now you're the only person
that world is not getting everything
they buy off of Amazon well I live in
the city I go ahead little man okay I
get just different here we want it we go
out to go and get it you can walk yet
you can walk everywhere
that's not like that like I said huh we
got yards yeah you got all the cues and
yards
look y'all muhfuckas all miserable bad
for ya no winter he is as much snow
defin he could say we have a winter what
yeah you know he's from Hawaii right
we don't have a thank you from
California goes one step further my mom
says that oh yeah and the winner it
rains a lip route I need to know if
that's true rains a little batshit that
don't qualify it I know what anything
you mean it eases the plans or what is
that you know where's the fucking
monsoon I don't hear mm I hear that
thing exact things but yeah so Amazon
call you right every real Amazon all
these things you turning me on the event
of you chopping on Amazon and it's good
for everyone before you go to Emily you
click through the website through our
website your website yeah so it's like a
little yeah before when you I you get a
thing from out on saying hey thanks for
referring you know spree that's pretty
dope they give us a little bit a little
piece of that yeah and you know what it
caught the Victor Cole thing is because
you can set up things for for like
podcast that's basically gives me money
mmm just give me money but yeah I'll
really like asking people for money yeah
you don't even it doesn't your price
doesn't go up it's actually my book it's
kind of a good way to stick it to the
man because Amazon gotta kick a little
bit down to the podcaster over here but
it's kind of not because wait a minute
you stick it to the man - oh you also
got the roof it is integrity but wait a
minute I am amazing in that way fuck man
yeah there is it
yeah little bit of confusion there yeah
cool but I mean either way you know when
you do do this I think it does benefit
Amazon cause like a referral you know I
mean okay so you're saying that somebody
might order something from another
online retailer but instead someone says
I'm gonna support the podcast yeah fuck
that so forth the podcast like I yeah
don't be a bunch of bitches you got to
support the home team and fuck that I
feel the same Marley on that data
shit but Emma's actually pretty cool
like that like they'll offer everyone's
a lot like little things like oh you
want to donate like you round up like
let's say your thing costed like 889 you
a you're got 11 cents to the next dollar
you donate that 11 cents to like
something like charity anyway I don't
feel good like that anyway no support
the podcast do the amazon click through
go to the jack o podcast web play which
is jakka podcast calm and click on the
support or the amazon banner then do
your shopping that's a good way some
people don't do it and then like the
little those to get a screenshot of it
and they'll send it to me on twitter
ya know that that is cool that is dope
it's like on formation yeah and it's
kind of like like they say hey i'm
support the but and i see i feel that
like the literal direct support from if
you wanna give I know Charles a good day
as you have for the fuck outta here with
a little what social media cuz it a lot
of times they'd I don't see like the
price or nothing
they'll just say Oh it'll be a
screenshot pretty ambiguous it could
very well not even be them supporting
the podcast necessarily I just feel like
Holly I'm just trying to clear up did
maybe it works it works on I like
something to do that makes me feel good
I feel like they care Reese oh yeah very
easy anyway you can subscribe to the
podcast iTunes if you listen to it on
iTunes and stitcher Google Play all
these one yeah that helps leave a review
if you're in the mood like what jock was
saying or Harley thing like give a
review on this specific one we have a
YouTube channel if you have not
subscribed to that but subscribe to that
if if you like the video version of this
podcast but the excerpts
know people been kind of giving me crap
about st. excerpts a lot do I say
excerpts you say it a lot and you put
your tone on it well yeah you don't say
I don't think you did a lot no you don't
say hey you know we've got some excerpts
that we put on you go I made a couple
excerpts you go you go escalation voice
level 12 yes yes well I think those
you're right was that your idea excerpts
yes yeah there you go yeah because
people don't want to watch - yeah
they're not going to watch three hours
yeah three hour
gasps if there's some point oh hey jaanu
cool thing with Harley Flanagan he was
talking about this yeah they want to see
Harley for three minutes they want to
send it to their buddy that they listen
to hardcore with they can't send them
hey watch this three and a half hour
podcast in the next during your lunch
break yeah I'm more into it now got a
set a little clip listen to Harley
Flanagan talk about a street fight yeah
yeah yeah exactly right
maybe you should do a bunch of excerpts
of yourself talking about on it and
exercise a neck sir yeah no that's not
very shareable but that was a good idea
thank you doctor for that so if you want
to see excerpts of random lessons not
random they're not random sorry on annum
innum ennum excerpts of lessons
individual lessons selected selected
from the podcast flown that's on YouTube
and also if you want one
Calico on social media hey make this
time period on this podcast into an
excerpt and put me on there too because
that way I can harass him now we get
through to every single one quest yeah
straight every single one but some of
them I see and I go yeah I go come on
man
yeah or ask I agree you post wheatgrass
and heroin yeah see yeah that'll be a
fun one
yeah I think we're gonna I ain't gonna
do that hahaha but never game you
Paddington one well that's t-shirt
because everybody that's another thing
they want excerpts but people also want
to have t-shirts for everything every
like anything that some visitors know
where wooden arrow yeah somebody find
something funny or interesting or
whatever and it's a we need to make that
into a teacher yeah and then it gets
escalated to a certain point where
enough people ask for it and then we
break down echo break down yeah and it
makes it teachers it up to who works to
click on yeah it's good anyway yeah this
is so the excerpts good idea Thank You
YouTube but if you do the request if
you're requesting that the you know what
that facility and what X or be sure you
know which which excerpts are already on
there because sometimes people hey do
this on and then it'll already be in
there just sayin
yes sometimes people tell me to do a
book review and it's already been done
uh yeah if you're doing a review like
yeah I don't work
yeah I get a lot of requests like that
yeah then I have to look up and see
which one it is and then send it back to
him and say hey man I already did on
this one yeah actually that's a good
like how we were going over today that's
a good thing about how we put the the
time stamps on all the subjects own and
that feeds into the search term so if
you you're like hey since to joke about
guess art of war it'll go boom to that
episode yeah 23 you know actually coming
on top of this book there's a book out
about HR right now for the Batman yeah
and the reason I'm thinking of this is
cuz one of my buddies who's into the
podcast who was a hardcore kid growing
up and his name is NACO but he's a he's
a cop in LA and he was a cop in New York
and so it's I'm just thinking about that
like here's a kid that grew up listening
to the crow max who's been like syncing
hardly all you gotta you know he's a cop
he's a badass cop and then his girls a
cop too and don't forget I got from
Exeter cops man yeah okay long yeah you
know people they'll be like hey no I
don't eat cops I have friends in urk I
got a picture me but it had to be
Dresden bug yeah good um okay chocolate
the stores called jockle store these
shirts chocolate weird yeah man I go I
need to get out of these danique was
freedom motherfucking Church you know I
wrote a song recently yeah that I named
discipline equals freedom yeah yeah and
and just I gotta fucking say because you
know I I don't give a fuck I'm gonna say
it and that's that
yo when I found out that Jaco was in the
hardcore and when I found out that he
was into my band the cro-mags
I was I was very proud and all and and I
asked this motherfucker you ever thought
about singing in a hardcore
and my fuckin reaction I got out of this
motherfucker if my computer screen could
like just turn into like a fucking
screaming look ah the motherfucking the
the the the response anyway I am very
proud to say that uh what we're going to
be playing besides doing this European
tour I'm going away in a week I'm
playing all over the place and we're
coming back and in June I'm going to be
playing in LA and we have invited Jaco
to come and make a special guest
appearance when we play at the fury fest
in LA so for all you motherfuckers out
there who want to see me playing with
one of the baddest motherfuckers walking
this fuckin earth certified by the u.s.
fucking government they're not under you
you you you were going to see some
fucking badass shit because I'll tell
you I have not gotten I haven't been
able to just play the bass and not be
like chained to the microphone in a
really long time and that was one of the
things that was intense about the
cro-mags back in the old days was that
me and the singer both used to go
fucking apeshit when we played and it's
funny because you know I was I've been
thinking for the longest time and if I
could get a singer like I'm like you
know shit like I'm like you know Henry
Rollins and his prime was fucking badass
you know Phil Anselmo and his prime was
a fuckin badass
jock so we'll see what happens with my
kids up in my ears we would have
whenever you go to Fargo's and what is
my shit you know I used to have a fake
seal sing in my band now see what
happens if I the mic ends up in my hands
well I may have to slap more than my
anyone happens it oh yeah it's in sing
the or with those shirts on yeah lynnie
cool sweet little working right yeah oh
yeah man chuckles story that's where you
get them I got you
whatever sure you need oh yeah for sure
but if you're in the mood to support
vodcast purchase a shirt or whatever we
have other stuff on there chocolate or
calm water up those mugs you made yeah
those are some good mugs so I shouldn't
have even said this he's been amped
about these coffee mugs we got or what I
call travel mugs trap
tumblers of her real thing alright I
won't go that deep into it this time
next time I'm going deep extra deep this
time I'll go just kind of deep this is
straight up the best cop I've ever cause
it look it look like his head I got a
handle on it battery actually we kept a
little bit you know it's just black on
black like black matte and then the big
design you know it looks like this on
one side then it's shiny black anyway
looks super dope but 30 ounces so big
enough but small enough to fit in your
cup holder boom I'll be drinking some
motherfucking coffee so so here's the
thing but the coffee it's it's those
ones that are like I don't know how they
make them you know the inside and I
don't know they're stainless steel
bpa-free all this you know good stuff
I don't know what all of that means but
it's I know it's dope just grill
involved yeah it's so where you know
down realize the trillion is involved
but it keeps it like you're cut if you
like your coffee hot it'll keep it on
for like eight hours or something like
that I don't know if it keeps it the
same temperature for eight hours
it might I don't know I never had I'm a
cold coffee guy
alright well here's a good news about
that processor but put quick how's this
I put ice water in it and I was drinking
it I drank like almost all of it there's
a little bit in the bottom and I forgot
about it went to sleep the next day I
was cleaning up us calm I cut from last
night boom ice still in there you know
usually in a regular cup it's like water
it'll keep it cold for 24 hours boom not
losing any coldness anyway I want to go
way deeper next time but this is
straight a lot of special podcast for
you to talk about them that copper bill
covers
yeah one episode will be the cuff the
other episode will be the oil yeah oh no
oil presenter everything I'll go to
start with the oil bro I'll go with a
krill oil right now if we have to I
don't know anyway is essentially what it
is doing
yeah oh yeah chocolate started some cool
stuff on their travel mugs are out those
are good there's some bumper stickers
some women's stuff on there some patches
some rash guards one new rash guard and
it's not it'll be out but nonetheless
I'm not gonna promise anything quite yet
but new rasterizing me out hoodies are
on there there's some good stuff hey
just take a look if you like what's on
there you want to support in that way
get something also psychological warfare
okay all right hardly might not know
about psychological war for someone
explain it
go see it's not it's not that deep so
basically it's an album with three hours
and 18 minutes in degrees right it's an
album a doesn't care
echo don't care don't care we go here
three hours and keep listening no I'm
just saying this part is kind of
important too many people are out there
getting after it
waking up early some people some of us
sticking to the program sticking to the
diet sticking to the workouts right
every once in a while you wake up or you
don't feel like waking up early that day
or you don't feel like working out that
you're kind of tired you had a hard day
whatever mmm
so when it's time to it when it's go
time you're like HAMP maybe I'll skip
today you know when you're sleeping on
the program I know that feeling yeah boy
we all do for you skip your wheatgrass
exactly right so man get this it's
against the album called psychological
refer to Jocko it's not the music just
tracks with Jocko telling you how to
overcome those weak moments in your
programs oh boy
but it's in telling when I when I am
having a weak moment the last thing I
want to fucking hear it don't fucking
tell me to get after it is Robbie well
fuck really yeah right now I got to do
that heavy plug good look like it we
fucking love it here four hours
fuck me you know I like sleep I don't
know what fuck is wrong with you guys
but whatever it's all good yeah hey you
know echo like speak to people I'm sure
I like dreams no I like to pet don't
sleep is the enemy most and I like babe
it's like it's like the last clusen
genic I can take is leaves I dream my
brain goes bananas love it yeah yeah my
dreams you want to swim I prefer to be
awake and I hear yeah okay I get it but
it goes for the work that you do so not
just asleep so you can skip the sleep
one so you go but like me is like the
work that way yeah tell you don't skip
to work anyway it's good very helpful
100% chance of success but doan that's
okay
psychological warfare and also by the
way when you click through Amazon you
can click through you can buy this book
right here
the book it's called hardcore life of my
own it is written by Harley Flanagan and
we'll have it up on the website but me
rephrase that it's on the website
oh he is waiting to be perfect and there
you go pick it up on Amazon you can also
get some jock a white tee I hear now
there's some things in the book that
Harley does not recommend he tried them
but he does not recommend some of those
things that he clearly states in the
book he literally says I do not
recommend for instance I do not
recommend angel dust I do not recommend
heroine I do not so there's a lot of
things he doesn't recommend now here's
something that I will strongly recommend
that's jock a white tee it's going to
get you a lot better results than
anything any of the supplements that
that Harley's taken in this book you go
with jock a white tee instead you're
gonna have a much better trip okay I'm
gonna tell you that right now also we
talked a lot about jujitsu today and we
talked about jujitsu a lot you know you
just use a big you know get to the
powerful thing and there's a book that's
out right now
and it's geared it's written kind of
written for kids
it's called way the warrior kid it's
available everyone that's bought it
already thank you I appreciate the
support thanks for spreading the word
thanks for letting kids get a little
insight into life and I'll tell you
there's something about this book that
is that a when I wrote it the the debt
the father the book is about a kid who's
you know fifth grade going through life
the father in the book doesn't have a
role now you might think I'm a you know
bad person for not giving the father the
role but you know that all he says
there's one line about the father in the
book she says my dad's gone a lot with
work and stuff it's that ambiguous and
and there's a couple reasons why did
that and the number one reason is
because not everyone not every kid
that's got a dad I mean what you're
saying is actually very real yeah you
know and a lot of kids have to just deal
with oh yeah my father's not around much
yeah you know and and that's why I did
it and and there's another subtle reason
and you know without going into too much
crazy detail the lead character in the
book his name is Mark and he's actually
named after Mark Lee who was one of my
guys with just an incredible incredible
person
incredible warrior and he was killed in
Iraq and you know he was he'd never dad
his mom raised and you know so it was my
way of saying look you know not everyone
has a dad and and in the book he's got a
strong uncle that comes in and helps him
but at the end of the book his uncle
points out to them and he says who's
going to help me now and his uncle says
to him look you don't need to you know
what the right thing said you are you
know how to stay on the right path you
don't need someone to hold your hand all
the time you can make this happen for
yourself and that's my the message you
know that I'm trying to get across to
kids that might not have a dad they
might not have an uncle they might not
have a mom but you can find out what the
right path
as you can get on it you can stay on it
and that's that's why I wrote the book
that way and and you know it's it's
interesting because I've gotten asked
many times over the years you know about
what do you think about fatherhood and
and the important roles that fathers
playing again you know I go back to for
instance mark leaves a great example of
a kid that was raised in have a dad and
his mom's a strong woman and a
incredible person and she raised a
warrior so that's why I did that in that
book and you know another thing I did in
that book is you know jujitsu plays a
prominent role but you could replace
that with wrestling with boxing with
with more Thai but Jiu Jitsu is really a
big part of it but so is studying you
know learning learning how to learn and
having and and as a kid seeing what the
opportunity is in being educated because
a lot of kids myself included when
you're going to school you're 10 years
old or 15 years old you don't care
leaders don't care and it's I want I
want kids to realize that it's
beneficial to get stronger faster
smarter and better so that's a way of
the warrior kid get it and get it for
your local library too because they need
it because there's some kid that will
grab that book in the library and you'll
get them on the right path also
discipline equals freedom Field Manual
you can find it by itself in the get
after it section of any bookstore or
online book retailer if you're looking
to get after it section this is a big
empty shelf there's one book there it's
called discipline equals freedom Field
Manual we are petitioning now to make
that happen at Amazon they just need
like when you drop down business
lifestyle health and fitness get it
every there's that one book they better
get in the game and also there's extreme
ownership the book that kind of started
all the laid off by the way thanks
appreciate it it's about leadership and
it's about combat and it's about taking
fucking responsibility and it's about
taking responsibility apps and that is
fucking huge well as huge it's something
that I think is one of the hardest
things for most people to do
and you know I actually highlighted that
a bunch of times in your book where
you're kind of explaining things that I
guess you would say maybe resulted in
something happening bad in your life and
you'd say hey this happened and this
happened and this happened and every
time you went laid that out at the end
of it you'd say but it's my fault and I
should have done I I made this happen to
myself so it's pretty uh and you wrote
this book before you probably say no you
write this book the same to our I was
right in that book when I was basically
fucking trying to kill myself drugs and
everything else is when I started it and
even in that state
you always say you know it's my fault I
should you know hey my dad all right
make a habit out of looking for other
people to blame I mean it's important to
identify the roots of the problem and so
on and and what made you the way you are
so you can fix them exactly
so now exactly and a big a big part of
being a man is accepting responsibility
for gear fuck-ups yeah and I thought
that was awesome you know again you know
when you were talking about what you
learned from your dad not being around
and how you apply that to help other
kids that are in that situation teaching
them jujitsu and taking care of them and
building relationships the best you can
with your kids and with other kids that
around man that's that's exactly what
you're talking about
so that's extreme ownership and also
don't hoard the knowledge you might
think hey I'm gonna get extremely shape
for myself I'm gonna read it at night
and then I'm gonna become a good leader
and I'm gonna do better a torque don't
do that that's the wrong move what you
wanna do is you want to actually
distribute it to your team yeah and that
way they all get on board and now the
whole team starts kicking ass that's
what you want to do up and down the
chain of command then if you need more
than that you can hire our leadership
and management consulting company
echelon fun
we are the premier leadership consulting
company in the entire world
so we're the ones that teach that the
methods and the techniques and the
tactics and procedures from extreme
ownership proven in combat so you can
email contact us info and echelon front
comm we just had the muster number two
in New York City awesome event if you
missed it come to Texas July 13 14 on
the Barton Creek Resort and Spa and
again forget about the spa you're not
going to spa you'll come to the spa
not happening but well what will be
happening is leadership we'll talk about
combat leadership and how to apply that
to your business and to your life and if
you can't make Texas it's okay we got
back up we got contingency operations if
you can't come to Texas September 14th
and 15th we will be back in San Diego on
my home turf where there is no winter we
got big yards and barbecues oil mother
purses
it's all right you're entitled to be
spoiled at this point in your life I'll
take you I'll give you a pass on that
until the musters we can be found
actually on the interwebs on Twitter on
Instagram and in that phase Porky's
gonna find it there Harley is at Harley
F Flanagan and Flanagan it spelled F LA
and a gan Harley F Flanagan echo is at
Echo Charles and I am at Jocko willing
echo you got anything else nope that's
it man
my pleasure gentlemen it was real
pleasure absolutely got any other
closing comments you want to make I
definitely wouldn't advise smoking PCP
taking a list not seriously not thanks
for having me on man it's real pleasure
you know I you're you become a big
inspiration
I love reading your quotes and your
books and listening to podcast it's
sometimes it's exactly the kick in the
ass that I need and I appreciate that
and again I'm very honored and proud to
have been a part of the soundtrack to
your life indeed yes indeed I'd also
like to give a shout out to my better
half who without her I definitely
wouldn't be doing so well my book would
not be as good it would probably suck
and my life would definitely suck so
Laura Lee Flanagan I love you and if my
sons are listening to this podcast I
love you boys and not keep up all the
good work and keep your training going
and not keep checking out Jacko's
podcasts you might learn a thing or two
awesome that well Carly obviously thanks
for coming on the show and such a
pleasure man thanks for the years of
music that you gave to me and millions
of other kids that needed to hear it and
thanks for making it through what you've
made it through and coming out on the
other side with a with a positive
outlook and a positive impact and a
positive message that it's it's never
too late that is never too dark and that
we can always turn things around as long
as you're alive there is hope yes indeed
thanks to everyone else that's listening
and supporting and spreading the word
and as always to the folks in the
military out there we salute you and
thank you all for holding the demons at
the gate and to the police and law
enforcement and firefighters and EMTs
and first responders thanks for fighting
the demons here at home and to anyone
else that's out there that's listening
that's started to go down down in that
hole down into that maw trapped in the
chains of depression or addiction or
rage when you're down in that hole look
up look up look up and recognize that
there is a way out there is a path for
you to take then it's not an easy path
it'll be a fight it'll be a fight that
demands focus and work and tenacity and
of course discipline but it is that path
that hard path that hard path of
discipline that will lead you to freedom
so stay on that path
and until next time this is Harley
Flanagan adecco and Jocko
