
Japanese: 
クリス・ガーロックと
マイケルレドモンドで送る
alphago対世界シリーズ19局
今日の犠牲者は見たことあるぞ！
柯 潔の二局目です
素晴らしい対局に見えたが、AI分析すると
一貫して形勢が悪かったようですね
世界チャンピオンだから
このシリーズで3局しか打たなかったのは残念
もっとも後で五番勝負打ったけれど
そうだねそうだね
このシリーズ終わったらそれも解説して

English: 
alright folks welcome back Chris Garlock
back with Michael Redmond this is our
alphago versus the World Series game 19
and we're just working our way through
all 60 Michael who's our victim I think
we've seen this fellow before haven't we
its KeJie playing the his second game against
alphago and so he played a pretty
amazing game the first time ya know when
you do the AI analysis it turns out he
was having a hard time it was a very
exciting game but so he gets a second
chance to play alphago and he is a world
champion so I think he deserves it in
fact it's sort of disappointing
disappointing that he only played three
games in this series but then he got to
play and the Chinese summit thing oh
that's right that's right so we'll be
taking a look at those and another point

English: 
we're gonna get done with these so in
this game Ke Jie has the black stones and
you can see he's playing the human way
because you might remember that in this
opening we've seen it in various
orientations like with sometimes with
the Black 3-4 point in the upper left
corner so for some players it might be a
bit confusing but this is the point
where alphago likes to play the large
knights shimari and this is the one move
that was like it was a pattern that
alphago played every time in this
board position and in the first game
that Ke Jie played he played
here so alphago played the high shimari
so that's different but when White plays the
3-4 point here AlphaGo was gonna play this
move so Ke Jier was not going to copy
that he wanted to play his own move here
so white plays a kakari too and black
pincers on the side and you might

Japanese: 
今回は柯 潔が黒です
人間らしい打ち方です
AlphaGoの得意布石は
向きは色々あったが
星と大ゲイマシマリでした。
繰り返し出てきたパターンです
柯 潔の一局目は白で星を打ったので
AlphaGoは高いシマリでした
小目なら大ゲイマシマリ
柯 潔は真似をしなかった
白もカカリです。そして黒ハサミ

English: 
remember after alphago gradually pincers
have sort of disappeared from
professional play it's because when
black pincers we've had a lot of
problems with white pressing here and it
turns out it's it's going to get really
really complicated but in
many cases pressing here is a very
effective move for white so that's
that's the main reason why pincers have
sort of disappeared in this board
position actually people are just gonna
be pressing here this this is the
suggested move by AIs and it's also
move that has become extremely
popular so pressing here and then just
allowing white to crawl and this is a
strategy that was around for a long time
at least several decades before alphago
came to the scene but the fact that
white is getting solid territory and
will be playing to the right side with
the next move somewhere maybe splitting
the side like this would be the standard

Japanese: 
alphago登場以降、子のハサミは流行らなくなった
プロが打たないのです
カケでどうも黒がよくない
複雑な変化になるが、
多くの場合は白のカケが効果的です
だから黒のハサミは打たれなくなった
今は黒カケが多い
以前からある布石だが
少なくとも数十年前から
ただ白に地を与えるので
そして白は右辺にも先行できて
当時の流行でワリウチとしますか

English: 
move at the time some people thought
that maybe it was okay for white with
white getting a lot of territory on the
lower side and stuff like that it turns
out the computers just give back a good
percentage if black plays this way and
not so good if black plays a pincer like
this hmm
and so the pincer is sort of going out
of fad in the game white actually
pincered on the left side so we have a
very unusual position here in which I
think still black should be thinking of
pressing so this would probably be
blacks best move and white might play
this way in which case black can just
cover along the top and this would be
sort of similar to the way that alphago
would play this with black like just
making this thick shape towards the
center giving white the territory on the
third line and trying to attack this
white stone next it looks perfectly okay
for black I think this would have been

Japanese: 
白悪くないと考えられていた
AIの査定では
黒がいい
ハサミを打つとそんなに黒よくない
だからハサミは打たれなくなった
白もハサミを打った
これでもカケがあるでしょう
白がこのように打てば
上から押しきって
AlphaGoが黒ならこんな感じでしょうか
三線の地を与える
黒不満ないですね

English: 
Istill even game maybe and the game
black plays this pincer and AIs just
don't like pincers so much they're not so
good so white kicks once this is pretty
standard and if black extends white will
probably just jump to the side so that
that's making a base in the corner and
threatening to attack black on the side
so Ke Jie plays the pressing move here
and with these black stones here black
can fight fairly strongly so for
instance if white is going to cut like
this black and probably play the fight
in this case just because black is
backed up with these two extra stones
here so this is playable for black so
that's the idea what Ke Jie maybe did not
expect is white to play the hane here
because the
ladder favors black and then play here
because if white connects here then the
ladder is gonna favor black obviously

Japanese: 
実戦はハサミ返しだったが
AIの好みではない。白コスミツケは普通
黒ノビなら白トビでしょう
隅で安定して辺の黒を攻める狙い
柯 潔はケイマにかけて、
白出切りなら下辺の黒石が働く
この戦いは黒打てる
以外にも白ハネだしです
シチョウは黒有利だが
白ツギだとシチョウ成立です

English: 
that doesn't work with when white plays
here and black takes the corner I don't
think we really knew that this is
supposed to be slightly better for white
this is a position where with AI
analysis very subtly like just two or
three percent difference it gets better
for white usually it depends of course
on board position but quite often this
this is a local position that changes
white score improves white score just
very subtly so like after this KataGo
was giving white 53% winning percentage
Wow
so that's a very small difference like
fifty three percent two forty four forty
seven percent it is something that I
would not be noticing in the game and
it's just it's something that I would
not be able to judge my positional
judgment is not that fine
and I think that that's true with most
of all the Go players actually and so
something that we've been learning from

Japanese: 
しかし白アテ打って、黒が隅を取る変化は
実は白有利です
AI査定では2－3％白有利に動くイメージがある
全局的な配置にもよるが
部分的な形としては白有利に動く
この変化で KataGoは
白53％の勝率と査定した
僅かな差ですが
わたしなら気付かないかな
そこまでの判断はしていない
棋士はAIの使用でこのあたりの感覚が変わって敏感にきている気がする
AIの査定を見ることで

Japanese: 
変化している
だから黒はこう、失礼
このように打って
このサガリは考えられた
今後詳しく解説する場合は研究してもいいが、複雑ですね
どちらかの黒二子は取られるので、
難しい打ち方です
わたしも研究しなおして
今度解説しましょう
どっちみち少し白有利です
白のツケは良い手です

English: 
computer programs it's we're getting a
new sense of these positions and so that
would mean that maybe black sort of oh
sorry maybe black should have been
playing this move after all this would
have found a normal way to play
otherwise black could have tried this
but this is this is something I might go
in into a more full analysis it
just goes into a lot of complications
it's a very subtle
difference usually locally this is not
going to work either these two black
stones when White connects here one of the
two sets of black stones is going to die
so it's really difficult to intuitively
see how this is gonna work for black so
that's something I'll try to explain any
more full analysis in this case I'll just
it's enough to say that this is a very
slight almost impossible to notice
advantage for white I remember I really

Japanese: 
黒の左下は強いから
区rをさらに固めて
凝り形にしようと
このように
たくさん打たせて下辺の黒をを重複させる
黒これが白の作戦です
柯 潔はそれを嫌って手抜きした
左下の黒が強いから
下辺を打ちたくないと
白はもう一手打って、いい形です
このように手抜きが多いと複雑になるので

English: 
liked this move the moment I saw it just
the fact that black already has a very
strong position here white is trying to
allow black to play more moves there
just to make it more solid and hopefully
to make it into a over concentrated
position like white could continue with
something like this just as many black
stones as possible in this general area
to make what will be a slightly over
concentrated shape for black it's not a
big difference but this is White's plan
here actually black could have played
this way Ke Jie he gets a bit adventurous
at this point he just ignores that move
with the basic idea that since black is
very strong here maybe the lower side is
not worth playing after all but white is
perfectly happy to play another move
here and here this kind of play with
black playing away from the lower side
it makes the game more complicated so

English: 
for a human player this would make it a
lot more confusing -yeah- but it didn't
didn't really faze alphago very much
 AlphaGo plays away and this is a point
where black sort of just answered this
is a big point White will probably follow up
with it something like this and white
does have a very subtle advantage but it's
still playable for black and the game
black played away and you can see I
think it's just because his idea of
trying to complicate the game something
that worked well for him in his human-human games is just complicating it it
doesn't seem to work against alphago
it's more difficult for the human to
keep on going and this move in the
corner not only does it settle the white
group it also does take
away the base from blacks group so it
was a very big move I think at this
point already we're seeing alphago

Japanese: 
人間が相手だと混乱することもあるが
AlphaGo は平気ですね
ここで黒が受ければ
このようになってちょっと白優勢ですが
まだ黒戦える
彼が複雑な打ち方をするのは
人間相手なら効果はあったが
alphagoに対しては問題かな
この隅の一手は
双方の根拠の急所だった
地としても大きい

English: 
having more than 60% winning percentage
and now that black group is in trouble
of course yeah Ke Jie is ready to handle
that he has a plan but as the game
continues like this at this point
already White has something over 70% so
according to KataGo White's
already ahead before komi so on the
board you might say so even without
komi white seems to be ahead I'll stop
here in this version
it is a game where the tactics that
Ke Jie was using was they're very
exciting and interesting but they were
not having much effect on alphago I
don't think -no no no yeah must be so
interesting for the players to - did you
get a sense of that at the time was
subsequently you know because I know you
were hugely excited to see you know
there's this treasure trove of games but
I assume that they must have had the

Japanese: 
AlphaGoの勝率が60％を超えた
黒石が攻められている
柯 潔にも考えはある
しかしここまで来ると白の勝率は70％を超えた
KataGoに言わせるとコミがなくても白勝ちだ
盤面で白がいいわけです
ここまでにしよう
柯 潔のこの後の戦い方も迫力はあったが、
alphago には通用しなかった
このシリーズの対局者はどう影響を受けた？
マイケルはｋぽの60局を見て昂奮していたようだが
宝の山の様でしたね

Japanese: 
1930年代の新布石時代の様子を思わせる
呉清源と木谷実の新研究で、
だれもがその発想を自分の碁に組みこもうとした
プロの打ち方が大きく変わった
今回は対局者も影響を受けたが
囲碁界全体が変わった
当時はまだAIを自分のコンピュータに入れて研究はできなかったが
数十局の対局を研究出来て、
alphagoから学ぶことが出来た
囲碁の歴史的な瞬間ですね
だからマイケルは全局の動画を作りたかったのか

English: 
same well it was sort of like the Shin-Fusekii in the 1930s when Go Seigen and
Kitani played some very innovative
openings and then everyone started
trying to figure out how to use that and
the moment these games came out a
professional play changed dramatically
and it was most obvious in the players
themselves but other players also and
just completely changed the way they
played getting their games even though
we didn't have AI programs that we
could put in our own computers at that
time we the fact that we had this fairly
large group of games of 50 games to
study that were absolutely new and the
way alphago was playing and it did
change the way we played go dramatically
such a historic moment in the history of
this game so which is one of the reasons
why you wanted to really you know do all
of the alphago games even though I am

English: 
beginning to feel like geez have we 
bitten off more than we can chew but no I'm
sure we will we will be just fine so
you guys hang in there and we will as
well thanks for watching this hope
you've enjoyed it and we'll see you next
time

Japanese: 
ちょっとやり過ぎかと思ったけど
何とか最後まで頑張ろう
ご視聴有難う
楽しんでいただけましたか？
また会いましょう
