You're listening to Health Professional Radio.
My name is Wayne Bucklar and joining me today
is Liana Taylor.
Now Liana is the Director of the Australian
Institute of Applied Mindfulness and she's
also the operator of the Mindfulness Center
and she joins us from Adelaide in Australia.
Liana, welcome to the show.
Thanks very much and glad to be here.
Now, Liana, that's a mouthful.
The Australian Institute of Applied Mindfulness.
I guess it begs the question, what is mindfulness?
It's a very good question.
Twelve years ago, when I started teaching
around Australia, nobody had ever heard the
word "mindfulness" and now, everyone talks
about it and it's kind of part of the common
language.
Fundamentally, mindfulness is a practice of
being able to focus your attention in the
present moment on what's going on and not
getting caught up with the chatter in your
own mind.
That's fundamentally what mindfulness training
is about, learning to do that.
That sounds very easy to say but doesn't sound
quite so easy to do as you were saying and
I was thinking, "Well a chatter in my mind's
often overwhelming."
But tell us how do you apply this?
What is it you do and who do you do it for?
How do I apply it?
Mostly, I teach health professionals around
Australia with the institute.
And I also do quite a bit of corporate mindfulness
speaking though that's more speeches keynotes
and things like that.
And with the health professionals, I'm actually
training them how to learn to do mindfulness,
how to teach mindfulness, what it means to
have a mindful approach and they're mostly
using it to deal with depression, to prevent
depression or to help people come out of depression
more quickly.
And certainly, for a whole range of health
conditions, stress, certainly anxiety, trauma,
anything else that's going on.
Now I didn't mention when I introduced you,
you are a clinical psychologist and the reason
I mentioned that you're a clinical psychologist
here is I don't want people to go, "Wow.
This is something really weird at a left field.”
That it does have a place where it fits within
the scientific clinical practice.
Well, in fact, mindfulness is a mindfulness
training particularly the MBCT which is a
particular program is pretty much the leading
edge for managing depression around the world.
And mindfulness came into the health sector
back in the 1990s when the World Health Organization
were looking to the economic future and what
was going to be the biggest health burden.
They thought that by the year 2020, depression
was going to be the biggest health burden
in the Western world and because of that,
they pulled together a project team to figure
out what kind of therapies could we use to
heal people from depression so that it doesn't
become this major health burden in the Western
world.
And so in fact, it was the World Health Organization
that set up the program and the result of
that project was that mindfulness was the
single thing that made the biggest difference
in people coming out of depression and even
more importantly for not dropping back into
depression.
There's been a huge amount of research on
it for the last decade and a half.
It's something that we've talked about reasonably
often on the radio in one form or another.
And quite often when I'm talking to clinical
psychologists and they're talking to me about
what is their current practice methodology,
they'll be a little shade of mindfulness in
there.
They'll be elements of it tucked away and
it seems to have entered a mainstream practice
fairly dramatically.
Very dramatically I think.
I think for some of us, I was teaching mindfulness
in a meditation center long before, in the
90s.
It started three premeditation communities.
So long before it became so well established
in clinical settings and education settings
and now leadership, even the parliament in
the UK before it was established.
But I think the thing with mindfulness, not
only does it give you a philosophical lens
like a different perspective on your experience
and some tools to help you kind of bring your
focus back into the present.
Not worrying about what happened in the past,
what's happening in the future, not comparing
yourself to others, you're better than/worse
than somebody else's, so just to actually
focus on what's happening at the moment - so
you get the tools to that.
But it also teaches us to be kind and compassionate
to ourselves and should be very present with
what's going on.
And it's interesting because in psychology,
as in business anytime in life, the relationship
we have with other people is the single most
important part of the outcome.
Just as I said in therapy, as in business,
as in life.
And if you're in a relationship with a client,
the more present you are, really just listen
to their story instead of off in your head
and making assessments, or judgments or taking
people down a path that's not really relevant
and because you're not really there paying
attention.
That capacity of being more present is the
thing that is different, the meaningful difference
- the difference that makes the difference.
So that's why mindfulness has become so popular
because there are so many layers to it and
it just ultimately in addition to all the
skills and the philosophical lens, just about
really fully being present to the situation
that's going on.
Yes.
That's one of those things that's easy to
say and hard to do.
It's very interesting because being present
is actually really simple.
It's just not easy to do all the time.
And when we teach it, we often talk to people
about just think in your life about things
you love to do - playing football, or watching
television, or playing musical instruments
or even holding your baby, something you really
love.
In those moments, the chatters have just dropped
away, you're just present with what you’re
doing.
So we all know how to do it and the mindfulness
training helps us learn to do that when we
want it, like when we need it.
So not just when we’re doing the thing that
we love but all the other times.
Well, I interviewed a sportsman and we're
talking about golf.
I made much the same comment and it was easy
to say and hard to do.
He said, "Well but the game itself is simple.
You get a stick and hit a ball into a hole.
How hard can that be?"
It's just that it takes a lifetime to master.
So mindfulness is I guess a practice that
is ongoing, now you mentioned the relationship
with meditation before.
How do the two fit together?
It's a really good question.
Meditation has two aspects and the two aspects
of meditation include really focusing your
attention on something, letting the chatter
of the mind go quiet for those who do get
there and just coming into that real stillness.
And that's the kind of meditation they talked
a lot about in the 80's and 90's post-psychedelic
era and everybody thinks about that as meditation.
But the other important aspect of meditation
is mindfulness.
So that for example, if you're focusing on
your breath or focusing on the sound in the
meditation and a thought arises or another
sound calls at your attention.
Mindfulness is that moment you have that you
really notice what's happening.
You notice the chatter in your head.
Rather than being critical of it or argue
with it or be annoyed, you just let it be
there and bring the focus back.
And so all meditation is kind of like once
you see that you have on one side, the mindfulness
and on the other side, the concentration,
that single point purpose.
And so you're always moving between and some
meditations - formal meditations - and more
in the concentration.
Some form of meditations is more in the mindfulness.
And so mindfulness is an aspect, not a form
but an aspect of meditation.
And as I said, when you're playing golf, or
surfing, or riding a motorbike and you're
having to focus your attention - from an Eastern
tradition perspective, that's a light state
of mindfulness.
A light state of meditation - attention focused,
chatter quiet, just doing what you need to
do.
Liana explained like a true expert.
One of the things that I love about my job
is I get to talk to people who are experts
in what they do and no one else can ever make
complex things sound simple and simple enough
that a child can understand them without it
being when someone who's not an expert tries,
it's always a very long and turgid conversation.
When you talk to someone who's an expert and
you truly are, it's so simple even I can understand
it.
So thank you for that and thank you for being
with us today.
Now for people that we've touched today and
they've gone, "I want to know more about that.
How can I get in touch?"
How can they reach out to you?
They can reach out to us certainly by the
website which is www.theaiam.com.au stands
for Australian Institute of Applied Mindfulness.
Certainly, you reach the website, certainly
can find us in Australia on (08) 8272 0046
or send us an email mind@theaiam.com.au.
So it would be lovely to hear from anybody.
Now if you've been listening to those phone
numbers and URLs and you're confused by them,
they'll be on our website so we'll have the
links there and the phone numbers as well.
Liana, it's been a pleasure having you with
us, as I said thank you very much.
Liana Taylor is the Director the Australian
Institute of Applied Mindfulness and practices
at the mindfulnesscenter.com.
Liana, thank you for being with us.
Lovely to have been here.
Now if you just joined us, then you've missed
a fascinating conversation about mindfulness
and its application.
But the good news is on our website, we have
a full transcript and you can read the interview
from top to bottom.
We also have an audio archive available where
you can listen to it all over again on iTunes,
YouTube and SoundCloud and the links to all
of those are on our website.
You're listening to Health Professional Radio.
My name is Wayne Bucklar and you can find
all that content at hpr.fm.
