Thanks for coming out tonight
to the Aga Khan Program Lecture.
The Aga Khan
Program is dedicated
to the study of Islamic
art, architecture, urbanism,
landscape and conservation.
And also to the
application of knowledge
from that study and research to
contemporary design projects.
So, you will soon see that
having Marina Tabassum here,
is kind of perfect
for that description.
Last autumn, Marina Tabassum
won the Aga Khan Award
for architecture for
the Bait-Ur-Rouf Mosque
and Community Center
in Dhaka, Bangladesh.
The Mosque was completed in
2012 and designed at the behest
of her grandmother.
It's been noted
for its, quoting,
"Quietly spectacular
manipulation of brick, light
and air".
But it's also been spoken
about for certain features that
have become part of the
conventional architectural
vocabulary for Mosque,
mainly domes and minarets.
And it's been noted for
its conspicuous absence
of those conventions.
Tabassum's design seems
to derive from two
intertwined investigations.
One, into the historical
uses, developments
of Mosque in the Islamic
world, at large, and maybe
in the Bengali
context in particular.
And I think of
things like program,
materials, but also
program and materials
framed by historical concerns.
And the second, it seems,
is a much more personal
understanding of the
nature of the sacred
or the spiritual
communal spaces,
needs of users and worshippers,
and community members.
Ms. Tabassum graduated
from Bangladesh University
of Engineering and Technology.
And then, shortly afterwards,
founded the architecture firm
Urbana with Kashef
Chowdhury in Dhaka.
In 1997, that firm
won the commission
for the Museum of Independence,
and the Independence Monument
in Bangladesh.
With a master plan that included
a 50 meter tower monument.
I think we will see that, as
well as an underground museum
and urban plaza, and
other components.
In 2005, after having worked
as a partner and a founder
of Urbana for 10
years, Ms. Tabassum
established her own practice,
Marina Tabassum Architects,
also in Dhaka.
She's currently the
Academic Director
of the Bengali Institute
of Architecture, Landscape
and Settlements.
She served as a studio
professor at Brock University,
at University of Asia
Pacific, as well as
a visiting professor
of the University
of Texas in Arlington.
Please welcome Marina Tabassum.
[AUDIENCE CLAPS]
Thank you, Michael.
Thank you all for being
here, and thank you, Mossan,
for inviting me to share my work
and my pursuit in architecture.
Quite often, when I do a talk,
I'm asked where was I educated,
and I quite proudly say that
I am entirely organic and made
in Bangladesh.
But there is, I mean, I don't
know how true that would
be because, though I have
never moved from my location
to be educated elsewhere.
But the school where I
went my formative years,
were in an American missionary
school, the Holy Cross.
So, I was exposed to a
multicultural, multi-religious
atmosphere from
a very early age.
And then, again,
the school where
I went for my architecture,
the Bangladesh University
of Engineering and Technology,
that was also set up
by Texas A&M. So, the
curriculum, which was followed,
was entirely an
American curriculum.
So, never been to America,
but in many ways, there
is a certain kind of an
interesting impression on me
of that.
So, I graduated in the mid
90s with this entire scenario.
When I went into
practice, and was
looking for a language
of architecture,
what should it be that
would be my language?
That's when I think a
sort of a crisis hit me.
What would be my language?
What would be the language
that I would like to pursue?
And that's when
actually I started
looking into the land and
the landscape, the history.
And, in many ways, I
think that shaped the way
I think and I try to
pursue my architecture.
That's why I always
like to start
my presentation by giving a
small introduction to where
I come from.
So, that's Bangladesh.
If you see here, that's
the Himalayan Range,
and from Himalayan Range,
are these two major rivers,
the Brahmaputra and the Ganges.
And these two rivers are coming
down to the Bay of Bengal,
that eventually goes
into the Indian Ocean.
And as these two rivers have
been flowing over centuries,
they've accumulated silt,
and that silt basically
created the land,
which is Bangladesh.
2/3 of Bangladesh is
delta, the Ganges Delta,
and it is the largest
delta in the world.
So, you see it has more than
700 rivers crisscrossing all
around the entire landscape.
And what you see here, you
see water and land is just
an entirety.
You cannot distinguish
between water and land.
What is land is water and
what is water is land.
It's so soft and fragile.
And, as these mighty rivers
change their courses,
quite often they
erode the banks.
And, again, in some
places it emerges as land.
So, there is a constant play
of emergence and erosion
that takes place.
And it's a very alluvial
soil, so very fertile.
It's green, as you can see.
The Earth is almost like
magic, you pop some seeds
and it comes out as the plants.
And, since the rivers
are the major feature,
you can see that life has a
certain kind of living entirely
on water.
So, what is water can become
land during the dry season.
And, again, during the
monsoon, that becomes water.
So, there is no distinct
line between water and land.
And in many ways,
this is the reason
why you see a lot of
informality and impermanence.
People have a certain kind of
a psyche that, over a year,
as the land changes, when
water becomes the landscape,
people tend to move to the
city to look for a living.
And then, again, when
it becomes dry again,
and there is a possibility
of growing crops,
they go back to the landscape.
This, I find quite interesting.
You see that there is a lot of
negotiation and appropriation,
optimization that goes on.
What you see here as
green, is actually water.
It's the water hyacinth.
And, quite often, when there
is lack of flow in the water,
it becomes entirely filled
with water hyacinth.
And it's impossible to dig the
boats crossing from one side
to the other.
And what the boatmen
do is, they basically
bring all their boats together
and create a boat bridge.
So, that's how you negotiate
with land and water.
And I find that that's a
very interesting example.
Optimization.
How much do you really
need to make a salon?
A wall and a footpath,
and that's just about it.
So, Tropic of Cancer basically
crosses through Bangladesh.
That's where it is.
You see the line?
And that's the reason why we
have a subtropical climate.
A high hot and high humidity
during the summer months.
That's why rain is something
we celebrate during the monsoon
season.
And the dry season,
which is at a time when
we don't have any rain at
all for a few months, no rain
and an absolutely dry, because
the wind comes from the north,
from the Himalayas, and so
it has no moisture in it.
So, this becomes a
very dry landscape.
So, this is, actually
in many ways,
this was something I
learned from Gazi, in a way.
About this image, here.
The Banglar Agony.
And it actually shows
what you really need,
or how much you actually
need to live in this land.
With a moderate temperature and
rain, all you need is a roof,
all you really need is
a roof to cover yourself
from the elements,
and the high plains
to keep you away from the water.
And that's basically it,
that's all architecture
needs to be in the
land where I come from.
And then, again, of course,
this blurring of the edges,
which you find quite
often, long verandas.
Where the rooms are basically
for sleeping and keeping
your belongings,
there is one space,
which actually acts
as the main living
space for the entire year.
And this is an element
which I find quite unique.
Even when we grew up, we were
living in houses like that,
but you don't see that
anymore in the landscape.
So, one of my first projects,
when I was in Arbana,
was a pavilion apartment.
And there, we tried to work
on this idea of opening up
the walls.
And you see here that
the walls are entirely
opened up to create this
semi-open, semi-covered space.
It was designed or
conceived as a pavilion.
And, as you open the doors
here, it opens to the outside,
so the room becomes a veranda.
This is the courtyard
where I grew up.
And courtyards in our
kind of climate and space,
is a very important
and vital element,
which is almost like the lung
of the building, that actually
lets it ventilate.
And, in a way, that
courtyard, to some extent,
came back in this project here.
You see this high
volume, two story volume.
What it does is basically
it creates a stack effect.
So, the hot air goes up and
it creates low pressure.
And what you'll see
is the draft of air
is being created from all sides.
So then, the building is
constantly ventilated.
And ventilation, a
draft, is absolutely
necessary for the hot, humid
climate where we come from.
So, that's the basic
section of the building.
You see stacks of floors, quite
a very common section in Dhaka,
and that's where the
apartment was located.
That's the high volume.
And we tried to open
up all the edges here,
so the air could make a move.
The quote from above.
And this, again,
another small project
to the outskirts of Dhaka,
where we've used this nine
square grid plan.
And you see there's a
courtyard in the middle
and there are
courts on the sides.
And these are the
basic living areas.
There was a pond and a small
cut that goes to the water.
The building, done in brick.
A very small, low-budget
project, as a weekend house.
And what you see here is those
courtyards, the corner courts
of the nine square plan.
And that's the court that
basically ventilates the spaces
and creates the draft of air.
And that's actually the
main shaft in the middle.
And on top, we have these
open pavilion-like spaces
where you can sit
in the afternoon
and enjoy the surroundings.
So, as you just saw, brick is
actually one of our materials.
Because, being a delta, we don't
have any other stone but brick.
So we have either to
build with mud, mud
as you can see in the
vernacular architecture,
or you can bake the mud and
make it brick and use it.
So, this is one of our
16th century old monastery,
Buddhist monastery.
And in that time, brick
was the relevant material
for any kind of
permanent construction.
These are temples,
Hindu temples, here.
And the terracotta also done
exquisitely detailed in brick,
and then baked, created
into terracottas.
So, Brick construction is
a tradition that we have.
And you see here.
This is one of my
projects, also.
And these are the
brick masons or master
craftsman from the northern
part of Bangladesh.
They are the best brick
masons that you can find.
And this guy is one of the
Aga Khan Award winners.
So, you'll see a lot of brick
kilns in our entire landscape,
dotted with it.
And because they have
a high carbon emission,
one of the projects
from UNDP was
to reduce this carbon
emission, and to create
a new kind of
hybrid Hoffman brick
kiln, which would
reduce the carbon
emission into the atmosphere.
So, this is one of such kiln.
And one of my
project was to design
a small residential facility
right next to the brick kiln,
to show that it does
not really emit as much.
And it really doesn't.
You don't see any
smoke coming out.
They have reduced the smoke
by adding coal into the brick.
So, that really
works quite well.
So, I designed a
small pavilion, which
was designed with the same idea
of a brick kiln construction.
So, what you see here is
that capsule-like thing,
which is entirely made from
that construction technique.
And a residential, some sitting
area courtyard in the middle.
This was what we had in mind.
And this went into
construction halfway through,
it's still not complete
yet, but hopefully we'll
be able to finish it soon.
So, handcrafting is an important
phenomena which you see.
Because every building
that you see in
Bangladesh are all handcrafted.
There's rarely any
machine being used.
So, as such, handcrafting
and the imperfection that
comes with it, is a quality.
It's something that
needs to be celebrated.
And, well, that's
what you just saw.
Basically, this is
what it turned into.
And these are one
of such craftsmen
who work with their hands.
And our connection,
specially we architects,
when we work, you just
don't give a drawing
and ask them to build it, it has
to be a connection with them,
almost like a family.
Because you have to explain, you
have to directly talk to them,
and then create
something out of it.
There he is on the site.
And with his
handcrafting, you see
this is what he has created.
No machines, nothing.
Just pure, basic handcrafting.
And these are the kind of
drawings we generally give,
so you really see that
there are proper AutoCAD
drawings with dimensions.
But at times, you just
have to go to the site,
draw something,
explain it to them,
and that's how it gets built.
So, this is Dhaka.
The land here, you
see, that's Dhaka.
On two sides, there
is low-lying water.
And in the south, we
have a river, Buriganga.
And on the north,
there is Turag.
You see, the Parliament Complex
of Louis Khan is right there.
That's our airport.
And basically, all the
pink areas that you see
are absolutely dotted
with buildings.
So it's a densely-built
city, a mega-city
that's growing constantly.
A city of 16 million, and
in 300 square meter of area.
So you see that the landscape
of Dhaka, the cityscape.
So, it's about 45,000
people per square kilometer.
So, that's the
density of Dhaka city.
And that's where I
actually practice
and do my projects quite often.
Many of my projects are there.
So, that's quite a
challenge, actually,
when you work in a
landscape like that.
We don't have the luxury
of building houses,
we only build apartments.
So that there is enough
people to abilitate.
So, what you see here,
is a basic section
that you'll find anywhere.
When you get a project anywhere
in the Dhaka cityscape,
these are the kind of sections.
You'll have a basement,
to place your car,
and then there will
be a ground floor,
and then all the
floors are either
apartments, commercial blocks,
or anything that comes with it.
One such project that I
did, was actually located
right at this point
here, which is
right next to the major
spine, which goes north
and south of the Dhaka city.
This is one of the major spines.
That's the major spine of
Dhaka city, right here.
And you already see
in the Google Image
that it's dotted with cars.
And it quite often remains
absolutely, completely
blocked with cars and traffic.
So, that was the
site, right here,
and it's an apartment
building, which
I knew that would never be
used as an apartment building
because, though the land use
plan tells us it has to be one,
and that's how we
designed it also.
What we did was, basically,
that's the plan you see here.
The court in the middle, you
have the elevators and stairs,
and these are the two
apartments on two sides.
What we did was, we
opened up the edges,
as I mentioned about the
pavilion apartment and the idea
of breathability, and
how you need to breathe,
make your space breathe.
We tried to open the
edges on the sides
to let it have that airflow
and the draft of air.
And that's the building, you
see the traffic jam is already
there.
And what we did is we
created a facade, which
is more for the public.
So it's a public facade.
Which actually gives
something back to the city,
and not entirely
for the apartment.
That's a developer-built
project, a real estate
development.
So that's the kind
of image we created,
and that's the building.
This is a competition which was
for the Building Development
Authority.
Which we designed.
It is again, in the city.
You see the city on
here, that was the site.
And what was required, it's
again, another urban plot.
That's the plot we had.
And we were asked to
design their office.
As the city is moving
towards north, it's growing.
So, they had their headquarters
in the southern part,
and wanted to move to the north.
So what we did--
it was a competition where
they wanted their offices,
and also to take up
as much built-up area
as are there, to give them
certain other different kinds
of use.
So we suggested a business
hotel because in that location,
they really needed
something of that sort.
So, this, what you
see here, is the plan.
So, we basically made
four built forms.
If I go to the next slide,
you'll probably see better.
So, this is where you enter.
And, first, we created a podium.
This is the parking
in the underground.
Three basements.
And the way we did
the design was,
there were four blocks and a
podium in the ground level.
And then, we cut the
building in a way
that allows the air to flow in.
And the depth of the
building was such
that you could have natural
air and natural ventilation,
and light.
Into that space.
So, there was this shaft
that we had created.
These are the shafts
that take up the air.
And at the same time allows
light, natural light.
And you can see the cores.
And these are the offices.
This would be the
business hotel.
That's the basic section.
And that was the
design we created.
That the building was actually
shaping, in a certain way,
that it allows air to
flow into that space.
Well, we did not
win, but I thought
of sharing because it was one
of the large projects where
we have tried out this
ventilation shaft.
This project,
which is absolutely
to the south of Dhaka.
You see this part?
This is the densest
area in the whole city.
This is the river.
And around here, the
member of the Parliament
of this area, which is a client
of mine, he's now the minister,
once gave me a
phone call asking me
that he had this election
pledge of making a few community
centers and schools
in this area.
And just gave me a
call and said, "Can you
give me a design very quickly?
I'll give you two weeks.
Come up with the design
of a community center".
And, at times you
have to do some things
to satisfy your client.
So I said, "All right,
I'll give you a design.
Send me the site".
So he sent me the site
location and everything.
This was the site.
And it's entirely
built on the edges.
And it was a very basic program.
Just as some large, open
spaces for different kind
of activities to take place.
So, we basically placed all
the services at the back,
and we left the
main spaces open.
So, these are the
spaces that we had,
and the service at the back, and
the stair that takes people up.
The basic section.
An atrium.
And you have the floors.
And from the top.
This is the 3-D image that
I gave him for his election.
And then, he won.
Not because of this
image, because he already
was quite popular in that area.
And after three
years, we get a phone
call that we need some details.
And then, I said,
"What details?",
and then, "What details?
Well, we are building this
project, we need some details.
There's some missing".
And then, for the first time,
we heard that they've already
laid the foundation.
It was already on site.
The foundation was done.
And that was the
first time I said,
"It was like a real disaster".
So we went, for the first
time, to see this site.
And there was this image
in a large billboard
with my name on it.
[AUDIENCE LAUGHS]
So you can imagine, I was
already famous in that area
because I was building
their community center.
But I have never
visited the site.
So this is the
first project ever
I've done where I
haven't been to the site.
But it's finally getting built.
So, that's where you see it.
That's the-- you see how densely
built the surrounding is.
And it's coming
towards completion now.
As it is still
under construction,
so the site is
pretty much there.
Another project,
which I like to show
because it's one of
my very favorite ones
that I've ever designed.
Which is the French
German Embassy.
So, in Dhaka, we have
this area which is
dedicated to all the embassies.
This one here is the American
Embassy, the Canadian Embassy
right next to it, that's
the British Embassy,
Chinese Embassy.
So, in between Chinese and
Thai Embassy, this is the area.
That land actually belongs
to the French Embassy.
Germans do not have a land,
so they came to a deal
that the Germans will
pay for the building,
and the French
will give the land.
So now, it's a
French-German Embassy.
Which then went
into a competition.
And we were pre-selected
of five different offices.
And the interesting thing
is, since it's an urban site
and there is a
small school behind,
then, as it's a very
high-security area,
they needed 25 meter
setbacks from all sides.
So, what happened
is, basically, we're
left with a very
small footprint.
So, there is no way of making
distinctly different embassies
for the French and the Germans.
They have to be in one single
building in a small footprint.
So, that's what we worked on.
Basically, that's the
school back there.
And this is the 25 meter
setback from all sides.
This is the footprint
that you get.
And what we did was, we created
an atrium in the middle.
Again, a small atrium.
And that's the square plan.
All the Passport section,
the cafeteria services,
are all on the sides.
But the main high-security
zone was in the middle.
And what we did was
created a central atrium,
and we cut the corners to allow
the light and the ventilation
to come through.
As this section.
And we won first prize for
this project, but later on this
was given to a French
architect to build.
So, that's a sad story.
OK.
So now, the next project.
Before moving into
the next project,
I'd like to give you a little
detail about Bangladesh's
history and how it
came into being.
This is the map of the Indian
subcontinent, as you can see.
And this map basically
shows the Hindu population
and the density of
Hindu population.
And this image shows the
density of Muslim population.
And you can see, this is
the densest Muslim area,
and these are the
densest Muslim areas.
So, based on these Hindu and
Muslim density, to some extent,
the whole subcontinent was
divided into three parts.
So, one part, of course,
we know became India.
This and this together
became Pakistan in 1947.
And, as you know
in history, this
is one of the largest
forced mass migrations
that took place when India
and Pakistan was divided.
And Bengali was also divided.
Now, my family actually
comes from the other side.
So we had to move entirely
to Bangladesh because
of our Muslim background.
And from 1947 to 1971,
it was a struggle.
Because, though we had our
common religion, the rest
of the things, like our
culture or our language,
nothing really matched.
So there was always
a constant tension.
And finally, in 1971, Bangladesh
or East Pakistan at that time,
wanted to become a free nation.
And that's then it
turned into a revolution.
In a way, a struggle.
And that led to a war
starting from March 25th
to December 16th.
And it was an intense war where
an enormous amount of life
was lost.
And this very ground, where this
whole event started and ended,
to some extent, is
where my site is
located for the project of the
Major Museum of Independence
and the Independence Monument.
This image you see
here, this is the ground
where Sheikh Mujibur Raman, our
Father of the Nation, actually,
gave the first speech where he
said that we want to be free
and we want to be liberated.
And in 16th of December,
the Allied force,
Indian and Pakistani forces,
in the same very ground,
actually, had this event of
surrender of the Pakistan
forces.
This is also a place
where we have this--
It used to be horse
racing ground.
So, this was actually a
public gathering area.
And even on our Occupy
Movement, or any kind
of gathering that you see,
takes place right here.
So you see the amount
of people that is there.
So, this site, which is
actually located here.
Is one of the rare
green areas that
is left in the city of Dhaka.
As you see, that it's
densely built all around.
That's our parliament
complex, right there.
And this is probably one of
the last surviving green areas.
So, to build a
museum and a monument
in a park, an existing park, did
not seem like the right thing
to do.
So, that was one challenge
that came with this project.
The other thing is
that it is actually
a ground which is surrounded
by all different kinds
of cultural spaces.
Like we have our museum
here, the National Museum,
we have the public
library and all
these other different
functions are located.
So, surrounding
this area would be
a lot of public and cultural
activities that takes place.
So, in that sense, it made
sense to create something
in that space.
So what we did, actually,
was we took the smallest
footprint that is necessary for
that whole event to take place.
That's the design we did.
We had a water body, which is
a reflecting pool, and a plaza,
and a elliptical
walkway to go around
to have a view of that image.
So, that's our master plan.
So, this was an existing
park that was there.
We created a connection between
this site and that site.
And a journey, you come
here and that's the plaza.
And basically-- so, this is the
plan, actually, what you see.
The way we thought
about this design
was that we wanted to keep the
horizontal edge of the park.
So it does not visually
become a building,
but it turns into a
non-building approach.
And we thought of this
whole design as a journey.
That you start your journey
from here, you walk up,
there is a small monument
to the 7th march,
and then there is this
water, a circular water
body that is actually
commemorating this nine month
long struggle and war.
And at the end is the tower.
And there is a wall
that guides you,
it takes you down
into the museum.
The reason for doing this
is that the plaza would
be for celebration, any kind
of celebratory activities
would be on the plaza.
Because, as we thought of, that
the freedom dream, aspiration,
has a preferred direction,
which is upwards.
Anything that relates
to infinity generally
takes an upward leap.
And, then again,
memory or sadness
always urges the subterranean.
So, we took the
whole, entire idea
of the museum, or the
sadness or the history,
which we tried to
embed into the ground.
So these are the different
elements, as you see here.
That's the museum.
So, what happens if
we dig the ramp down.
First, is an audiovisual room.
You come down and then, these
are the different museums
spaces.
That's the central water
that you see on top.
Becomes a central
chamber down here.
And the museum below.
And it draws in a certain water.
The water actually
comes into this base
and becomes a column,
or water column.
And then you go up
taking these ramps.
So, this project, which was
commissioned to us in 1998,
quite right after our
graduation from school,
took us 16 years to complete.
And finally with the tower,
it was finished in 1993.
And since the build project was
stalled over the period of time
because of the government
interest in the project or not,
it has those signs.
As you can see, it bears the
signs of this long struggle
of its own building process.
And one other thing that
the government never
made an initiative,
of collecting
all the documents of the war.
So, what we had is just images.
So we imprinted the
images on the glass
and created this
whole space entirely
made up of the art of images
of the whole event of war.
And that's the
central chamber, where
we don't have any exhibit,
but just a water column.
One should just stand there
and remember the people
who were lost in the war.
And then, you come out and
basically, with the ramp,
you go out into the plaza.
I have this small
video I would like to--
[MUSIC PLAYING]
[WATER FALLING]
[BIRDS CHIRPING]
So, as you go up
into the plaza, you
see the Independence Monument.
And the Independence Monument,
the way we thought of,
is a tower of light.
So, the Tower of light, the
best expression of freedom
we thought would be light.
And the way we designed
it was a tower, which
was made out of glass.
And glass was not used like
a panel or a sheet of glass,
but glasses were stacked
on top of another
and it created a panel.
And as you see here,
these are the panels
of single-panel, which
had thick glass layered
on top of another.
And it was clad onto
the space rim structure.
This is where you see, here.
Right here you see the panels
and the thickness of it.
And it's clad on
to a space frame.
The reason was, we
wanted the light
to be refracted
during the daytime,
so there is refraction of light.
And that's why it
creates a certain kind
of prismatic effect.
And in the evening, this is the
tower, which is 150 feet tall.
And in the evening, it's
lit artificially with light,
so that it is basically a
glowing light, tower of light,
which is a beacon of hope
for this young nation, which
is Bangladesh.
And this is the 16th of
December, our Victory Day
celebration, where you
see people being gathered
and the celebration
takes place on the plaza.
So, this is the city of Dhaka.
And, in a way, one thing
that I have found out,
my way of approaching
architecture in the city
is to bring order into chaos.
And, in many ways,
that's what I try
to do with all the different
projects that I've showed you.
And the other thing, what I'm
working on in two or three
different projects
at the moment, where
I'm trying to introduce
this whole idea
of a sense of ownership.
And, in many ways, the Mosque
project is one such project.
So, I'll be showing
you the Mosque, here.
So, here is the city
of Dhaka, as you see.
That's where the
Mosque is located.
This is the absolute end of the
city limit, marked by a river.
And that's the other end.
And the Mosque, here,
which used to be
an absolute farmland,
and not within the city
limits of Dhaka.
And if you see the images
here, 2004 to 2015,
how the whole area is
slowly getting urbanized.
And its landscape
in transformation.
It's constantly
transforming from farm land
into urban settlements.
And that's my grandmother,
who actually commissioned me
to this project.
The family owned some
land in this area.
And as the city was
growing towards that edge,
and there were
settlements being created,
there was no facilities
being provided.
So, she decided to
donate part of her land
to build this Mosque.
And this, you see here, that's
our first groundbreaking
ceremony.
And you see her sitting there.
And at that time, it was
still very village atmosphere
with farmland all around.
But as we started construction
from 2008 onwards,
it slowly became more urbanized.
So, as I got the project from
my grandmother with a small sum
of money to initiate
the project,
I started looking into the
whole history of Mosque,
and how it came into being.
And if you see, Mosque, how
it was initiated in Islam,
it was basically--
you see here, that's the first
Mosque form, which is actually
built out of a house form.
So, house form was
developed into a Mosque.
So, initially, it had never
any kind of symbolic elements
that we generally identify
ourselves with Mosque.
It was basically a space, which
is a space for congregation,
where people would gather to
say a congregational prayer.
And it was not only used
as a space for prayer,
but also for other
activities that took place.
It was a space for
administrative activities,
it was judiciary, it was
communal, social, so all kind
of activities used to
take place in the Mosque.
And slowly over history,
these activities
have been separated
or taken out,
and slowly, it just
turned into a place
where people worshipped.
So, in a way, I thought,
in a place like Bangladesh,
where you do not get
facilities, and you are just
getting a space, to only use
that for prayer would not
be the right thing to do.
So I decided, in a
way, that this space
should be not only
used as a prayer space,
but also would encourage
other form of activities
in that location.
And, of course, in
terms of architecture,
we see the wonderful
legacy that is there
in the Islamic history.
The Mosque of Cordova.
Hagia Sophia, though it's
not a Mosque, basilica.
But then again, the
spiritual character
of the space and
the light is just
enormously inspiring for me.
And if you look into my
landscape, which is in Bengal,
you'll see these
beautiful Mosques
from the sultanate period,
from the 13th to 14th century
Mosques, when Islam
actually came to Bengal.
And at that time, these Mosques
were the first, let's say,
authentic Mosque form that
you find in our country,
or in our landscape.
And this is the situation of
Mosques now, in Bangladesh.
It's just basically
stacks of floors.
It has entirely lost its
morphology or typology,
however you want to put it.
It's just not there anymore.
It's invisible.
And, see what happened
to the symbols.
So, as if to have a Mosque, you
must have these little things,
however you put it.
So, that's what I
wanted to address.
That you don't really
need these elements.
And so, in a way,
extracting what
is essential from the earlier
Mosques, which were actually
the authentic Mosque
form, to coming
to a Mosque which is much more
of a contemporary expression.
And if you see
here, these images I
find quite interesting.
Taken from a book, {} number
that was compiled with old
architecture of Bangladesh.
This, here, you
see the monastery
that I showed you earlier.
A Buddhist monastery.
This is a Hindu temple that's
the sultanate buried Mosque.
And that's our
parliament building.
So, all different religion,
including the democracy
is a religion, this
is what you get.
And basically, this is what
I came up with, as a concept.
That we had all
the, I would say,
the additional or extra
facilities on all these areas.
And then, I introduced
a circular form in a way
to facilitate this whole
rotation of the prayer hall,
because, as you
know, Muslims pray
in a certain direction,
which is to Kaaba.
So, that's the
qibla, we call it.
So to enhance that
qibla, I had to introduce
this circular volume here.
And to make that rotation
of the prayer hall.
And all the edges that
you see around here
are open to sky,
to let the air flow
and to have the entire
atmosphere open.
These are the
different drawings.
So, as you enter from this side,
these are the entrance court.
From there, you basically don't
enter into the prayer hall
immediately.
You turn, either from
coming here and then taking
that route.
Or you could come from here.
Or you could go and
do the ablution,
which is this area,
washing, and then you
can come from that side.
So, that's how the whole
entire thing was designed.
And one thing I must
mention is the fact
that the project was
built entirely with money
generated from the community.
So, everybody
living in that area,
they are basically lower
middle-income families.
So, they basically gave
whatever amount of fund
they could possibly give,
or in whatever form.
In a way, I encouraged
that in this whole project,
because it was important to
create this sense of ownership.
That once you have that,
once I've built this project
and I'm out of that,
they need to maintain it.
So, if there is not
a sense of ownership,
this will never be
maintained properly.
So that's why it was
important to engage them.
And in a way, that
engagement actually helped.
And since it was built
with their money.
I had to be really,
very responsible
about the resources I had.
So this entire area,
which is holding
all the different
functions and facilities,
are built with brick.
Entirely load-bearing brick
structure with perforation
to enhance the airflow.
And in the central space,
which is the prayer hall,
is the only space
which is in concrete
because it had to be a
column-free and large space.
So, you see here in this
image, how the whole area is
transforming slowly.
With new buildings coming up.
The landscape which used to be
farmland is not there anymore.
And that's the building,
within its landscape.
So, you don't see any symbolic
elements in this building.
You don't see the
dome or the minaret.
As I wanted to create that
connection of reviving
this whole notion
of the Mosque to be
used as all other different
kind of activities.
That was the reason
why I initially
decided not to encourage
this whole idea of symbolism
into the architecture.
That's the entrance.
That's one side.
And these are the
children who actually
learn to read Quran,
also in that same space.
You see the side,
open to sky spaces
from where you get the
light, and also helps
with the ventilation.
Also with the acoustics.
And during the day, this
is how the light basically
comes through.
Since we did not have any
budget to have it ornate,
we thought of using light
to ornate need the building.
Light is for free, and it
did not cost us anything.
So, it's all the
different kind of light
and the play of
light in that space.
That's the prayer.
And this is very recently,
when we had sort of an Aga Khan
celebration.
With all the community.
Everybody was there, so we had
a nice lunch in that space.
You see the children who
actually learn Quran.
And there, everybody
else from the community.
And it was a wonderful feast.
You see Farook there.
Farook was there to celebrate.
And, yeah.
So, we've basically
transformed the space.
And then, this idea
all of a sudden,
came of, why don't we
use it for weddings?
There is not enough
space in that location
to have wedding facilities,
so why not a wedding?
So, yeah.
So, that's how we'll slowly
start using that space
more than just for prayer.
And for other things, too.
One last project,
and then I'm done.
So, basically,
this project, where
we've tried to address this
issue of pride of place,
wisdom of the land, and
minimal intervention,
it's a resort to the
southern part of Bangladesh.
This is south of Bangladesh.
You see it's almost
like a painting.
This is the Bay of Bengal.
And this dark area that you
see, is the mangrove forest,
the largest mangrove
forest, Sundarbans.
And that's where the royal
Bengal tigers actually
come from.
So, my client, who has
this land right up here,
decided to make this resort.
Which is absolutely in
the delta farm land.
The idea was to celebrate the
delta, and the life and living,
and the authentic
experience of Bangladesh.
And to bring people from
the site to the Sundarbans
through the river ways.
And people could come
and spend some time
and go back to the resort.
So, that's the site right here.
You see how beautifully green,
and all entirely farm land.
And that's the river, which
is called Phataker and then
there's another river which is
very narrow, goes through here.
And that's the site
where we were to work on.
And from the side, this
is the view you get.
It's absolute farmland.
And there's a bridge
right across here.
And surrounding the site,
are all these fields
of [INAUDIBLE], and
this is our winter,
where you see the mustard
seeds become absolutely yellow.
And this is a very,
very fertile area,
from where all
kinds of vegetables
grows everywhere
around Bangladesh.
So, Bangladesh is basically
fed from this land.
So, in that sense, it's an
important and unique landscape.
And once you get
out of Dhaka, it's
really a very
different landscape.
Life is slow-paced.
And everything is so much
more natural and so different,
that I, at times,
feel like a foreigner
when I go to the
villages myself.
So, in a landscape
like this, how
do you build with the kind
of architectural education
that I was educated with?
Does it really give me
that kind of knowledge
to go and build something there?
That's where my dilemma
was with this project.
And that's why it
was very difficult
for me to even draw a line.
How do I address this?
What do you do?
Because the moment
you build something,
you immediately disrupt the
whole dynamics of that place.
So, that became a kind of a
challenge in this project.
So this is what I
wrote to my client.
"Rural Bangladesh is
uniquely beautiful,
the soul of the delta land.
It feels like a crime to invade
the silence with the roaring
noise of architecture.
This project gives
an opportunity
to bring back the
lost pride, and belief
in the wisdom of the land.
Crafted over hundreds of years
of dwelling in the delta".
And so, what we did was,
we started a research,
and we had some wonderful
interns from the Cornell
University, who went and
stayed there the whole summer
and helped us with this
whole process of research.
What's interesting in
building in the delta
is that the first
construction is to dig a pond.
So, you dig a pond, you dig the
earth out, you create a mound.
And on the mound, basically
you place you in buildings.
What you see here,
you dig a pond,
the earth goes up here,
it creates a mound,
so that, when it rains, the
water goes into the pond again.
And on that, you
place your small huts.
And that's absolutely ingenious.
That's all you need,
basically, to build there.
This is one of the
villages, which
was right across our site.
And this is the village
that they actually
made an extensive study on.
What you see here are the
huts, these are the huts.
Small huts.
And these huts are actually
enclosing a courtyard.
It's not a distinctly
demarcated courtyard,
but there's a notion of a
space, and the space basically
flows from one to the other.
And that's how it's
created all over.
That's the construction.
You see thatch roof
and mud buildings.
And this is how it's built
entirely in that landscape.
So, mud architecture with mud
walls, and either tiled roofs,
or thatch roof.
And if you look into
the architecture,
and this is one thing
I try to also dig again
into the history, to look into
what we had in the vernacular.
Basically, this is
a roof form which
is known as the bangla roof.
And from bangla comes
the word "Bungalow",
and that's something the British
brought out of that location.
So, this bangla roof is
a very unique roof form,
from our delta.
And this form was
also taken by Akbar
in the Mughal architecture.
And you see that also in our
temples, which were recreated.
But this is something
which is now lost.
You don't see that anymore.
So, I thought this could
be a thing of revival
in a contemporary manner.
And this is the idyllic
image of a village home
in [INAUDIBLE] in Bangladesh.
So that is something which
is, I found, quite unique,
as well to work with that.
These are the pallet of things
that we found in the landscape.
The colors, the textures.
So, that's how it all began.
So, that's our site.
We had a roadway that
would bring our goods
to the back of house facility,
which we decided to place here.
And people would
come from down here.
This is where the
car would stop.
And they would take a boat
ride and come to the site,
enjoying this whole
water scenario.
And the resort itself
is called Panigram.
Pani means water,
Gram means village.
So, it's a water village idea.
So, this was my initial plan.
Before I started
with the site, I
had to show something to the
client, so this is what I did.
And after we've
done the study, this
is what it sort of turned into.
What we did was, we
created these huts
that would be resorts.
So, you have room
for a bathroom.
And these are all
placed in a certain way
that the space flows
from one to the other.
So, you see the plan here.
These are all 30-inch
thick mud structures.
And with thatch roof.
And another issue
that we tried out
on this project, which
is working out really
well is, again, this whole
idea of sense of ownership
and including the villagers
in this whole project.
So this boy, who is from
this village, potter's son.
And generally, a boy
of his age has always
the dream of going to the
city and starting a job,
taking some kind of a job,
and then just, in a way,
getting lost or out of
this whole landscape.
So, what we try to do is
engage them in this project,
in different capacity.
So this is his household.
And that's the pottery village.
So, you see that's
what his family does.
And that's the village
that he's from.
That's his grandfather.
Making pottery.
So that's the boy.
We basically tried to engage
him and we started giving him
the job of whatever we needed.
And he has no knowledge
of making pottery,
so he went back
to his grandfather
and there was a connection.
Again, created that actually
got lost because of the fact
that he was not interested
in the skill anymore.
So, that is something
which is really unique.
This is our construction.
You see, we are using
basically sun-dried mud bricks,
taken from the kilns
before they're fired.
So, these bricks are brought in.
That our plaster, mud plaster.
And that's how its
construction is getting done.
The roof.
And the whole
project is entirely
being built by the villagers.
So all the villagers are there.
And they are building
the whole thing.
That's our thatched roof.
Our roof consultant.
That's our organic
farm consultant.
Our plaster consultant.
And that's the
consultants in a meeting.
So, this is the project.
I don't know if you would call
it architecture, because I
go there, and I just go
to the villages houses
and have a nice feast.
And the rest of the
project is entirely
being built by the locals.
I don't know if you'll
call it architecture,
we could have a debate on this.
But, to me, at this
point, in that location,
this seems to be
the right answer.
[RAIN SOUNDS]
So, that's the monsoon.
And I'll end it here
with this monsoon rain.
Thank you.
[AUDIENCE CLAPS]
Would you mind some
questions and comments?
No, not at all.
So, Marina has agreed to take
some question or comments.
Maybe I could just start--
Absolutely.
Maybe-- can I get a mic?
So, this last point about the
respect for indigenous building
techniques.
I mean, you started with
the respect for brick.
And, for a lot of
the early projects,
I was just comfortable
in the idea
that the brick techniques,
from making the brick,
to laying the brick,
and even the forms,
were hundreds of
years, centuries old.
But then, when you got
to the monument in glass.
And, in a way, the
tower was not high-tech,
but it was certainly,
it seems to me,
pushing beyond what any
crafts person would do.
And then, I became
more attentive.
And by the time we were at the
Mosque, which is, again, brick,
and in some photographs
looks completely
blended in with the village.
In others, there seemed to me
to be the tales and brick laying
techniques that are
not traditional at all.
And so, and then, we come
to that last project.
And so, I'm trying
to understand,
when do you push the tradition?
When do you try to
make, as it were
the bricklayer's, innovate?
When do you pull back?
Do they go with you
in the innovation?
Or do they resist?
Could you talk a
little bit about how
those kinds of
decisions are made.
Well, basically every
project is different, right?
So, every project comes with
a very different challenge.
With the site,
location, the program.
So, every project is
a different research
into the different morphology,
typology, however you call it.
And, so, based on that research,
like in the Mosque, of course,
we had this whole idea of taking
the essence from the past.
Sort of extracting what
is essential of a Mosque,
and to take that, and give
it a contemporary, much more
contemporary expression.
And contemporary
meaning contemporary
in Bangladeshi landscape,
not in a world scene.
Contemporary which is possible
with the craftsmanship
of the hand that is being
produced in that location.
So, that's how I try to work.
And, well, definitely, as
you've seen in the brick--
in the Mosque
project, we've tried
to create this perforation.
And it had to be a lot
better in structure,
which is about 25 feet high.
This whole brick work we tried
out a few different options.
So, it's always done on site.
So, we have the brick masons.
I tell them, "Let's
do it this way".
So, at times, we bring
in brick in the office.
Or at times we do it on site.
So, we build it to
a certain extent
to see how it works, whether
it resists rain water,
does it let it flow in?
So, those kind of
experiments we do.
And making samples is very,
very necessary, definitely.
And with the mud architecture.
The mud one was the
most difficult for us
because we did not use the local
technique of mud construction.
Because if you go with that,
and with such a big project,
it would not be feasible.
Then it would take 10,
15 years to build it.
Because it goes very slow.
And we had to employ someone
who can build it fast,
who has the knowledge
of brick construction.
So, in a way, it's mud
brick construction.
So, it's again, that
brick construction,
but done in a very
different way.
So, that also needed a
lot of experimentation.
So, how much you can
build with mud brick,
and whether it
breaks or not, when
to plaster it, how much moisture
should retain in the bricks
so that when you plaster,
it does not crack.
So, there are a lot of small
innovations and research
that goes into that
project as well.
And if you see the tower
that is made out of glass.
We never call it glass tower,
we call it tower of light.
So, light, definitely, you
cannot build with light,
but to bring in the effect of
light, glass became our medium.
And even the glass was stacked.
So, in a way, that's
also brick in many ways.
So, I think that actually works.
You can find a certain kind
of similarity in all of that.
So, questions, comments?
Thank you, Mrs. Tabassum.
That was a truly
impressive presentation.
Thank you.
And you took me away
to my childhood.
I'm originally from the
land of Rumi, from Konya.
The city of Konya, in Turkey.
And I went back to
those brick kilns.
How people actually
put that into form.
How they were baked, and
how they were taken out.
That was beautiful.
Thank you.
And I've never
been to Bangladesh,
but I was impressed with the
environment, with the nature,
there.
But I have one
technical question.
And one, maybe a sort of
philosophical question, maybe.
The technical question is
that those white spans,
where you don't use the
columns and then the Mosque.
Do you use post-tensioning
techniques, there?
No.
It's basically beam
and column structure.
Beam and columns.
OK.
The architecture and
the symbolic parts
of a Mosque, the minarets.
Well, I think they're important
because I see the minarets
as the lighthouses.
Lighthouses, you know, in
the sea, they guide you.
And whenever I go around,
if it's time for a prayer,
I look for a minaret
because they're higher up.
And spiritually,
they also guide you.
So was there any react--
I'm not reacting, I respect
your design and everything.
I thought it was a great,
multi-purpose sort of Mosque
there.
But was there any reaction
to having your Mosque
without the minaret?
Well, in Ottoman Mosques,
you already always
had this idea of minarets like,
from the Ottoman times, right?
Yes.
These Mosques that we've seen.
Beautiful Mosques that
you have in Turkey.
I love the Mosques.
I've been to many of those.
And I think that's a
very unique feature.
But when I see Ottoman
Mosques being replicated.
Let's say in Dubai or in
Abu Dhabi, or even in Dhaka,
or Bangladesh.
This doesn't seem like
the right thing to do.
If you've seen our old Mosques
in the Sultanate period,
there were no minarets.
It was just a regular Mosque.
OK.
We never had minarets.
And if you look into even
in the Arabian Peninsula,
all the Mosques that
you see, starting
from Saudi Arabia to
all the early Mosques,
because I did a study on
the Mosques of the Arabian
Peninsula, the early Mosques.
Which actually became a document
for the Abu Dhabi Mosque
Development
Regulation Guideline.
And at that time,
also, it really
helped me to see the
entire early Mosque
scenario in that area.
And you'll see, rarely,
you find minarets.
Dorms there were none.
Except for one small Mosque,
which was made out of mud,
but it was built when the
Turkish came and built it.
So they had these small domes.
Otherwise, they were
all flat Mosques.
So, there was no dome.
But there was, at times,
you'd find minarets.
Which are stout.
And very tiny, small minarets.
In Bangladesh, we
never had that.
But later on, as
it was a demand.
To identify, as I mentioned,
with this whole notion
of these forms that it came in.
I did-- there were,
from the community,
they wanted to have a minaret.
But then, we went to do
the debate of why would you
need a minaret.
Except for the fact that,
as you mentioned that,
it acts to identify
that there is a Mosque.
In a way, in Dhaka,
you don't need that,
because people generally
know where their Mosques are,
because they are going
there almost regularly.
On a regular basis.
And, if not, then you always
find the Mosque somewhere.
It's a city of Mosques.
There are numerous
Mosques, there.
And one thing is,
as I mentioned,
that we did not, of
course, have the fund
to build a beautiful minaret,
even if we wanted to.
But the idea was that
when you call for prayer,
there is the sound.
So, the sound goes everywhere.
Do we really need a
minaret in that sense?
When we could use that
money to do something else.
Do I really need to
build another form, which
is really not that necessary.
Because minarets were
for the whole idea
of the sound of the call
for prayer to go around.
That was the original idea
why it came into being.
But now, with the kind
of sound systems we have,
you don't really need that.
So, that was the
dilemma where we
decided that we don't needed.
Thank you very much.
In fact, I agree with you 100%.
When you go to the--
I love the Sinai style Mosque.
But when you go to Qatar,
or Abu Dhabi, Dubai,
it doesn't really fit.
Absolutely, it doesn't fit.
One of my companies, a
construction company.
We'll just finish our
fifth Mosque in Qatar,
in the Salwa Beach Resort, OK?
And I really would like to
talk to you about your designs.
[AUDIENCE LAUGHS]
Thank you so much,
it was wonderful.
Yay!
I got a job.
[AUDIENCE LAUGHS]
Thank you.
Thank you very much.
Other comments or questions?
Hi.
Thanks, very much.
I noticed in the
picture of the Mosque,
where you were using it for
the Aga Khan celebration,
that people had their shoes off.
And was interested in, as
you think about using it
for a wedding or
for other spaces,
are you running into issues
with how people use a Mosque
or is that problematic at all?
And then, to draw that
question more broadly,
as you push traditional
bricklaying techniques
or traditional
architecture methods,
do you get any sort of
push-back from craftsmen
or local traditions that are
seeing a change that they're
not used to?
And if you do, then,
how do you deal with it?
Well, we haven't
had a wedding yet,
but I'm sure women will come
in their high heels and saris.
We'll have to find a way.
Maybe we could have carpets.
I don't know.
Only for that purpose.
And then, later on,
you could take it out.
I'm sure we could come
up with something.
But I'm not pushing it, yet.
Let's see.
We have to go slow, you know?
About the brick techniques
or any kind of material
that we work with,
it's basically
working with the
masons or those who
are actually working in that.
So, I'm not a mason.
I do not know how
brick would react.
I can only give certain
hypotheses, perhaps.
But it's always
working with them.
That's why it's very
important, the relationship
that we create with the
person who's building it.
I'm just drawing a line.
He's making that wall.
So, he's the more important
person than me, actually.
So, that's why
it's very important
that this relationship.
So, in that way, we,
whatever idea we have,
we basically give it to them.
They give us their feedback.
Yes, it's possible.
Yes, it might
work, may not work.
And then, of course, the
engineers also get involved.
So, it's almost like a teamwork
of architect, engineer,
and the workmen or the
masons, or whoever.
The craftsmen, I would say.
So it's a teamwork.
And that's how it gets done.
I've never seen any
push-back in that sense.
Not really.
No.
People like innovation.
And if it's done, I
mean, a brick wall
could be laid just a regular
brick in a normal fashion,
or you could create something
which actually gives you much
more than just a brick wall.
It could be a breathing wall.
It could be a lot
of different things.
So then, that's a small
innovation, but changes a lot.
So, I think when you do
that, people appreciate.
It's never, I've found any kind
of push-back in that sense.
Maybe I can get in with just
asking you to educate us
a little bit more about what's
going on now in Bangladesh.
You put yourself in a
number of traditions.
I mean, I was always
impressed that you
do a lot of historical work,
but you also place yourself,
it seems to me, in a
tradition of modernism
where geometrical organizations,
the nine square grid
appears a lot, the circle, where
geometrical organizations are
also at work and mixing
with the tradition.
And the closer you
look, and as you work,
the later work is even
more, I would say,
more personal, I think,
than the early work.
Is this part of a general
trend of a new generation
of architects in Bangladesh?
Is your work or are there
other people doing such work?
Or are there different
trends emerging just
in general, how a younger
generation is practicing now
in Bangladesh?
I can talk about those who
are contemporary to me.
There are quite a few
architects who are working--
I mean, you know that we have
a tradition, our architecture,
modernist architecture
was established
by Muzharul Islam in the 1950s.
And, in a way, to
some extent I would
say that we are
basically following
that same legacy in many ways.
After Muzharul Islam,
there was Kazi, Zaif.
With Muzharul Islam, they formed
this group called Chetana.
And from Chetana,
they made a number
of really unique
beautiful publications.
And, in a way, that is
also another generation who
has immense respect,
have shown respect
for the local architecture.
Much, much more rooted there.
And I think our generation is,
to some extent, from that time
it's much more in
a contemporary way
coming out with another kind
of architecture language.
But I think its there is a
certain kind of continuity.
And it's not only me, of course.
We have quite a
few architects who
are doing tremendously,
really good work.
And, as you mentioned earlier,
that we have this Bengal
Institute, which we formed very
recently, and through this,
we are trying to engage
young architects, which
I think is very necessary
now in Bangladesh.
That we engage
these young minds.
With different kind of
multidisciplinary architectural
ideas.
And engage them not only
in buildings, but also
to develop the
whole environment.
So, that's also something
we are working on.
So, there are a lot
of young architects.
Especially awards like
this Aga Khan Award.
actually helps.
And not for me, but for
the younger generation
in many ways, it's a
very encouraging thing.
Yeah.
Thanks.
What about female
architects [INAUDIBLE]
Well, we have about
2000 architects who
are registered as architects.
And among them, I would say,
at least 40% are female.
So, we have a huge female
architecture professionals.
But in practice, you don't see
many of them coming like me,
let's say.
The number wouldn't
be too many, who is
running an office on their own.
So, that is something lacking.
But I think that's
something really to work on.
Because, if you go into
the schools of architecture
these days, you'll see 50%
of women, 50% are male.
In fact, at times, male
is less, and more females.
So, it's turning into a
female profession, slowly.
Especially in Bangladesh's case.
So, I think it's important that
we kind of try to engage them
more into the practice, rather
than just working in offices.
That's very important.
Otherwise, at one point, we'll
end up with no practitioners
anymore.
That would be really something.
Yeah.
Maybe we can convince
Marina that this
won't be her last time.
And she can come as a role
model for future practitioners.
So, warmly ask her to
return and thank her.
Thank you.
Thank you so much.
[AUDIENCE CLAPS]
