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[MUSIC]
>> It cannot be overstated that
just a simple existence of
a person in power that happens
to look like a young person,
that will change a young
person's perspective.
[MUSIC]
>> You are listening to
the Women in Business and
Technology podcast,
from Microsoft.
In each episode,
you will hear from women in
amazing technology and business
roles, as well as male allies,
who are helping make
the industries more inclusive.
We are diving into programs that
promote greater diversity in
the pipeline, and
bringing you tips on
how to build a successful career
in a supportive community.
Welcome to Women in Business and
Technology.
[MUSIC]
>> Welcome to episode four.
My name is Colleen O'Brien.
>> And I'm Sonia Dara
>> And today we're going
to kick things off in our
Community Connect segment by
talking about the Create and
Cultivate Conference,
which recently came to
the Microsoft Campus.
>> And then we'll jump into
an interview I have with
a male advocate,
fellow Microsoft employee, and
fellow podcaster
Scott Hanselman.
And then we'll wrap things up in
our cutting edge segment where
we're going to talk
about CurvyCon,
which is driving inclusivity
at New York fashion week.
>> So, Sonya, you and I recently
attended Create & Cultivate,
which happened this weekend.
>> It was awesome.
>> It was awesome.
Create & Cultivate is this
amazing brand and company with
this bold mission to help
women get their dream jobs.
They create a ton of amazing and
inspirational content
on their website and
on their social feeds, but
they also host a conference that
happens three times a year.
And Microsoft was lucky
enough to host them on campus
this past weekend.
Sonya, you and I were both at
the conference, and I'd love to
hear a little bit more about
your experience there.
>> First of all, it was amazing.
The words phenomenal women just
kept kinda flashing in my head.
I was fortunate enough to
play a roving reporter.
And I got to go around and
interview a couple of
the keynote speakers, panelists
of the women who are attending.
I was so impressed.
It was a single-day conference,
and
there was women coming in
from all over the country.
So women from Florida,
Wichita, like Dallas, Texas,
it was amazing seeing how
many women had come out.
And it was just this energy
that was buzzing around.
And it was infectious.
And got a chance to interview
Brooklyn Decker and
Whitney Casey, the founders of
and get their input on what it
was like to be key note
speakers at such a large event.
I wish I could have talked
to I was like amazing.
But it was just infectious, and
I also loved having
them on campus, and
I get to show them a little bit
of what's going on in our world.
And it was just amazing to see
what drove women to attend, and
all their different reasons.
So some were to provide advise,
some were looking and
seeking advise, and
it was just all around awesome.
And I think we should
get more involved with
opportunities like this.
>> Totally, I was at
the conference as an attendee.
You and I were lucky enough
to witness the interview with
Easter Ray at the end of
the day, her keynote interview.
She's this amazing actress,
writer, director, producer.
She created one of my
favorite shows, Insecure.
So that was [LAUGH]
>> Ultimate slashy as you
call it.
>> [CROSSTALK]
>> Director slash actress.
>> Yeah, totally, and
another great panel that I
caught during the day was about
snackable content, interviewing
women who were using technology
to start their own businesses.
So whether it was the blogger
behind A Cozy Kitchen, or
What's Gaby Cooking,
to local entrepreneurs
Entrepreneur Molly Moon,
who has all of these amazing ice
cream shops throughout the city.
It was an amazing spot for
me to learn from and
get inspired by women
who are using technology
in really innovative ways to
capture a market opportunity.
>> Community Connect,
get involved and stay connected.
>> Sonia and I caught up with
Create and Cultivate attendees
at happy hour the night
before the event kickoff.
One of the women we
met was Karina Fabre,
who works in publishing and
was specifically interested
in getting access to greater
diversity of thought when she
purchased her conference ticket.
>> I decided to come to Create
and Cultivate this weekend
because I feel like we
kind of live in a bubble,
specially in our internet age
where it's difficult, sometimes,
to get outside and
meet other people in person.
And it's, I think,
an exciting opportunity to learn
about the field that I'm in
from women that inspire me but
also about new areas that I want
to kinda build up my skills in,
from people that I admire
a lot in a setting that's very
inclusive and uplifting.
>> Merchandising
analyst Marga Bueno
was attending the conference
with her best friend Druly,
both of whom were looking for
some inspiration.
>> We are starting to work on
one of our ultimate goals,
which is really looking out
what other people are doing,
what mostly women, and
how they're contributing to
the community, and how we
can bring people together,
inspire other people and
just create opportunities for
other women and other
countries that are in need.
I'm from the Philippines and
I really want to start focusing
on bringing more
projects over there so
that I could create
opportunities for
people who don't really
have any connections.
>> Kat Earles, an advertising
strategist, was on the hunt for
some important and
critical conversations
with other attendees
at the conference.
>> Recognizing and acknowledging
the fact that in order for
women to succeed in
today's business world,
there are barriers
we have to face and
not being afraid to talk about
them or get in front of them and
meet other women who
are on the same page.
I think that community is really
important for us all to get to
where we want to go, and these
types events are a really good
way to bring people together, to
kind of move forward together.
>> Producer, Meera Jogani,
was specifically
looking to grow her netowork and
find a supportive community.
>> So Create and Cultivate
is interesting because it is
a brand that really
brings women together.
And I love that idea
of empowering people
and having an environment
where you can have these open
conversations where it's not
necessarily competitive, but
really about growing, like their
name, Create and Cultivate.
So yeah,
it was basically about that,
just meeting women
that are like-minded.
>> The CEO of clothing
rental company Armoire,
was leveraging the conference
to connect with her business'
target audience,
professional women.
>> I wrote a business that's
focused on solving problems for
the women who are here.
So it's really exciting for
me to talk to them,
understand their challenges and
see how we can tailor our
solution to best meet
them where they are.
[MUSIC]
>> So Scott, in addition to
having an impressive and storied
career, you are a podcast host
of This Developer's Life,
Azure Friday and
just to name a few.
You are also a frequent guest
on other shows and panels.
And because you are so prolific,
this could easily be
a marathon of an episode.
But I'm hoping we can really
narrow down the lens and
focus on your work specifically
in diversifying the tech
pipeline, so if we can make our
conversation about that today.
So first off, you've had
a pretty interesting childhood,
I've listened in to a couple of
podcasts where you've talked
about it.
And you managed to get your
hands on the school's single
computer, it sounded
like they only had one.
And you'd keep it on the
weekends to apparently stay out
of trouble with The local
gangs you mentioned,
making fake IDs which I
thought was hilarious.
And I also know you're a fan of
teaching systems thinking at
a very early age.
Can you tell us a little bit
more about your journey into
tech and
maybe any advice to newcomers?
>> Well, everyone has their
journey so, just to be clear,
I'm not trying to compare
my journey to anybody.
It was a fairly middle-class,
blue collar kind of environment.
My mom was a zoo keeper,
my dad was a fireman.
So, working with their hands,
hadn't gone to college, and
I was getting into trouble.
There was some meetings,
basically.
Back in the day, they would get
all the teachers together and
they would have meetings about
different kids that
were problems.
So I was one of the meetings,
right?
And this fifth grade teacher,
Mrs.
Marian Hill, she said, this kid
is worth something and maybe we
can give him some access to the
computer, it was an Apple II.
And they made a deal where,
if I borrowed the computer
over the weekend,
that I could keep it as long as
it was back by Sunday night.
And that one of those moments,
I think we've all had that
teacher, we've all had that
mentor, we've all had all that
boss who looked at you and said,
you're worthy, and they lent
their privilege to you.
She gave me access to something
I would not have been able
to afford.
And then, about a year later,
my dad sold his van and
bought a computer.
Had he not seen me weekend after
weekend working on a computer,
which we couldn't afford,
he wouldn't have done that
amazing thing and sold this van.
So, there is an example
where two different people,
one in the form of my
fifth grade teacher and
one in the form of my dad,
lent their privilege to me that
I would not have had otherwise.
So then, my whole career
afterwards has just been trying
to lend whatever privilege
I have to whoever I can
to try to lift all voices.
>> And I think that also relates
a little bit to what you talked
about, importance of
exposure to technology and
having, it's a privilege,
as well.
Anything you could shed light
on about having exposure to
tech and how you can
take advantage of it?
In our previous podcast,
we talked about the latest NASA
class, which is five women,
seven men, and
one of them grew up next to
one of the space centers.
It was a privilege having
this tech right next door.
Anything you can shed light on?
>> We have these images in our
mind of where two 20-year-olds
arrive at college and
one's a man, one's a woman, or
one is one race and
one is another.
But we don't necessarily see
that maybe one had computers in
their life for 10 or
15 years, and one just simply
had no access to them or
maybe saw them at the library.
That is an exposure, just
an ongoing background process,
I think,
that's running in the mind.
So by me having access to even
a simple computer at age 12,
gave me 10 years jumpstart.
>> Yeah.
>> That I think other
wouldn't necessarily have.
I think we are simplistic to
believe that simply having
a phone means that everyone
has access to computers now,
and that that's
a solved problem.
We have phones that we can
consume information with, but
we don't have maker devices.
How many people are watching
Netflix versus writing programs?
So I wanna make sure that we
understand that production and
creation and creativity around
computers is as important as
simply having access to them.
>> As we were learning
more about your podcast,
Hanselminutes, you share that
nearly 60% of people you
interview are women,
which is awesome.
We talk a lot about the
importance of representation on
our show specifically, and
we really appreciate
that statistic.
Was that actually a goal
you had set for yourself?
And is that something that
you're very closely tracking
stats on?
How easy or difficult has it
been to actually achieve that
gender ratio on your show?
>> So, it's not been a goal.
It just happened, which I don't
know if that's good or bad.
>> [LAUGH]
>> It just happened.
One thing that I would say, and
there have been people who have
noticed that statistic and
that aspect of my show, and
some people have declared that
my show is a women in tech show.
It's not,
it's nondenominational.
>> [LAUGH]
>> But
one of the things that I've
noticed is that I haven't needed
to invite any white
guys on the show.
They introduce themselves to me,
and
they invite themselves
on the show.
I have lots of people
who've said, hey,
I'm working on this great,
cool technology,
I'd love to be on your show,
so I have them on the show.
And it's usually a great show.
In my experience, and
I apologize if I am making
a generalization here, but
in my experience in 600 shows,
very rarely have I received
cold emails from women or
people of color saying, hey,
I've done some great technology,
I should be on your show.
What I have come up with is 50,
60%, where half the people
invite themselves on the show,
and the other half, I invite on
the show because I see that
they're doing cool work.
If I see that you're doing
something cool, I'll email you.
And you might say, I don't know,
I really haven't spoken.
No, no, come on the show!
And just this much
encouragement,
just a tiny bit of
encouragement, and
it turns into a great show.
And what I've also found is that
if you look back in the archives
of my show, you'll find that a
lot of the people who maybe got
their start on my show, that was
the lift that they needed to
start then inviting
themselves on other shows.
So, you can say that
that's personality types,
you can say that's gender
differences, whatever.
But the fact is, some people can
self-promote, some people can't.
But some people can be
taught to self-promote.
And that makes me happy,
so I try to, again,
lend my privilege.
And that term,
lending privilege, I got that
from my buddy, Anjuan Simmons.
He's got a fantastic whole
talk that he did at South by
Southwest that he did
on lending privilege.
And that's what
the show intends to do.
>> Way back in 2012, you hosted
Kimberly Bryant, the founder of
blackgirlscode.com on
your podcast, just a year
after her organization
was actually founded.
Many large tech companies,
even including Uber,
which just released its first
diversity report this year,
are seemingly slow to pick up on
the importance of inclusion in
the industry.
What was your perspective that
lead you to bring Kimberly on
your show so early on?
>> That's a good question.
It has been now five years,
you're right, and
it was really when she
was just getting started.
I think she was just working
on her non-profit status and
things like that, and now she's
a force in the community.
I think that, having been in
the industry now 25 years,
at some point I'd looked
around and realized that I was
mostly just working with people
that came up the same way I did.
Whether it was blue collar
people that went to community
college, or whether they went
to Stanford, it was mostly just
people that looked like me and
spoke like me.
And I don't know,
it got a little boring.
>> [LAUGH]
>> We tend to make the same kind
of projects and software.
You've worked on projects
in college where the team
is just people who
look like you, and
who grew up in the neighborhood
you grew up in.
>> Homogeneous, yeah.
>> You know, homogeny in any
way is not a good thing.
So, recognizing that Kimberly
was trying to break the mold,
I thought it was great and
I wanted to support her
in any way I could, and
we've remained good friends.
>> In that interview
with Kimberly,
you had this great quote.
It cannot be overstated that
just the simple existence of
a person in power that happens
to look like a young person,
that changes a young
person's perspective.
Also in that interview,
you shared that your
children are mixed.
Are you very intentional about
presenting them with role models
who look like them?
>> Yeah, and honestly,
I'm trying to do it in a way
that everyone can understand.
Because if you have seen 42, 43
presidents that are white men,
then it's very easy for you,
as a white man, to say, hey,
I could be president,
totally awesome.
But I've got a picture of my
two-year-old standing in front
of Obama being elected and
pointing at his hair.
Those moments, the Serena
Williams, the Mae Jemisons,
are all opportunities for
someone to go and say,
hey wait a second,
I can do that.
The Hidden Figures,
every single little moment like
that Even what the models look
like at Target when
you're buying clothes.
All of those little moments,
they don't hurt me
as a white man to see
someone else succeeding.
Their success does
not lower mine.
>> In your Hanselminutes
interview with Lamees and
Abeer, two very successful
women IT, you discuss
how nearly 50% of the people at
the Cairo Code Camp are women.
This gender trend is not our
reality here in the technology
industry in the US, however.
How did you learn from those
women, and how can we change
the tide of representation
in STEM here at home?
>> This was at the Cairo
Code Camp in Egypt, and
it was seven or
eight hundred young people, and
it was really like 50
plus percent women.
And this was in a Muslim
country, a lot of people were in
the hijab, and Someone who
doesn't necessarily have
a passport or hasn't had the
blessing to travel that I have,
may not believe these things to
be true, but I have been there.
And while there may
be challenges around
how women are treated
in those countries.
In Egypt, the parents,
the fathers,
the head of the household, the
most amazing thing you can do to
honor them,
is to get into science.
They want doctors-
>> It's cool.
>> They want lawyers,
they want mathematicians.
So if you're a young
woman in Egypt and
you can get into one
of the STEM careers.
That's one of the things
that they talk to all about
the aunties and
all the uncles about.
I think that when we
say it starts at home,
it's that it's tutors for
your kids.
It's making sure, we call
them tapes, the tapes that
run in your children's' heads
in the back of their minds
that are saying I'm not good
at math, I'm not good at math.
My nine year old has started
that tape already, where he
seems to think that because he's
not good at his times tables,
that I'm not good at math.
Ten years of a tape running in
the background saying I'm not
good at x, causes problems.
>> Yeah, and you mentioned
systems thinking at an early
age, can you explain a little
bit more about systems thinking,
how that might help?
>> Systems thinking is this
common idea, but I learned about
at first from this amazing
woman named Kesha Rogers, and
I did a podcast with her and
she says that
everyone's out there trying
to teach kids how to code.
But they're not teaching kids
about how the system works.
And she used the example
of a toaster.
The toaster doesn't work.
It's not making toast.
Well, you can shake it, or flip
it upside down, or plug it in,
or unplug it, and for most
people that's the end of it.
But if you think about
the larger system, the fuse,
the fuse box, the power to the
house, that kind of house-wide
debugging, as you run around
looking for things to reset or
restart, just even simply
rebooting the router.
Is the understanding that
the Internet itself is a system.
Is it my computer?
Is it the router?
Is it something between
my system and the router?
Is it the files into the house,
etcetera, etcetera, etcetera.
I don't think that we teach
people those systems.
>> That's great, any lessons
that you've been teaching your
kids directly about systems?
>> This will sound silly,
but honestly the basics.
My kids want a digital watch.
They can't have one until they
can read an analog watch.
Because you don't want
to grow up to be 35 and
you can't read a clock.
Those little things matter.
>> Of course race and gender are
just two spectrums against which
inclusion can be practiced.
Also in 2012, you spoke on
a South by Southwest panel
entitled, On Pie Chart Diversity
at Technical Conferences.
So do you mind,
explain a little bit,
what pie chart diversity is?
>> In my opinion,
pie chart chart diversity is, or
what I also have called
Power Rangers diversity
is when you are putting
together a team, and
you want it to look attractive,
aesthetically pleasing from
a Power Rangers/United Colors
of Benetton, kind of a way.
>> [LAUGH] Right.
>> Which, okay we're putting
together a team.
We need one black guy.
I've got two
qualified black guys.
Nope, sorry, just have one
because it's the Power Rangers,
there's just one black guy,
right.
>> Right, of course.
>> You get two white people,
a boy and a girl.
You get an Asian person,
maybe a Latino or Latina,
doesn't matter.
And then you've put together
your team you've put them
together to make sure that the
aesthetic pleased someone and
that the boxes were checked,
where they qualified.
>> Right.
>> Maybe you put
together an all white or
an all male team because that's
where the qualifications are,
but are they all white
people that went to Stanford
that grew up in the Bay
area in the '80's.
There are multiple
levels of homogeny.
>> Right.
>> Do you have veterans,
do you have disabled people,
do you have neurologically
diverse people?
There's a lot of different
aspects to diversity and
it does not always make
an attractive pie chart.
So I am encouraging people
to think about diversity and
inclusion at a deeper level,
including disabilities,
including veterans,
including age.
And then also
not trying to build a team of
Power Rangers because that might
not necessarily be
the most qualified team.
>> I know you had some fellow
panelists actually, with you,
and you had some shared stories.
Any other learnings you had in
how we can hopefully diversify
more panelists, or
any feedback you can give
conference attendees?
>> I found that,
I don't like the word diversity,
I like the word inclusion.
I feel that if you use the word
diversity too much you end up
othering people again,
because then you refer
to they're not diverse.
Or you start using coded
language, we're looking for
a diverse candidate, which just
means a non-white guy candidate.
And that's gonna make non-white,
that's gonna make
white guys angry. Right?
So how do you find that balance
and I think you say, we're
looking to really cast a wide
net here and put together
a really inclusive team.
We're looking for all kinds
of people, of all flavors.
That means old and young,
veterans and not,
disabled and not.
We're looking to put together
a team that is not just,
the same people.
What I think we're doing is we
are casting a wider net to put
together a team of people who
think differently than I, and
presumably we'll have
a better product for it.
So another way to look at
it from the pure economics
perspective is you're gonna
have a better product and
a product that represents
more people and
you're not gonna have your
product get into trouble.
All those kinds of
issues can go away.
So, there are perfectly good
reasons not just because
inclusion is the right thing
to do, but economically.
>> And are there any other
examples of conferences, or
any other tactics that you think
employers can tap into for
that exact purpose of getting
more inclusive groups together?
And sounds like We Rise
was a great example.
>> Yeah, We Rise Women in Tech,
the work that Wayne Sutton
is doing with Tech Inclusion
Conference, Afro Tech.
I mean there's dozens and
dozens of great conferences
that are inclusive conferences.
And hopefully we won't have to
split out the inclusive with
the non-inclusive conferences.
>> You mentioned this, We Rise,
Women in Tech Conference,
that was back in June.
Hosted by,
Women who Code Atlanta.
It's a pretty tactical example
of you demonstrating your
commitment to advancing
the careers of women in tech,
especially as a male ally.
For others and our listeners
hoping to strengthen their
commitment to the cause, can you
break down how you got involved
with this organization
specifically,
and how that
opportunity came about?
>> Women in Tech,
they invited me.
So that was one of those things
that I think is after spending
ten years of just kind of
quietly lifting voices.
>> Yeah.
>> I'm trying to do this
in a not overt way.
Because as a man in tech,
you don't wanna
change your profile on Twitter,
and say I support women in tech,
and then start patting
yourself on the back.
I'm not trying to say that
people necessarily do that.
But, you don't simply like
jump onto the other side.
You don't just jump over
some theoretical line and
then declare you're an ally.
You know what I mean.
>> Okay.
>> And even that term ally is
loaded.
I think of it more as like,
Advocate.
Or maybe when appropriate,
accomplice.
>> Okay.
>> You know what I mean?
How far are you
willing to take this?
You know what I mean?
I don't speak on
all-male panels.
I won't go to conferences
that have all-male lineups.
But that doesn't mean
that I'm gonna go and
write mean Medium blog posts and
tweet, subtweet people about it.
I try to work it quietly
from the inside.
So I think that the number one
thing that someone who wants to
be an ally or an advocate can
do, is kind of shut up and
listen, and ask questions
in a non-judgemental way.
And when they get
the answers back,
listen again, as opposed to
waiting for their turn to talk.
>> So mentioned that you'd
prefer using the word advocate
over ally, where do you find
the distinction between the two?
>> It's tough, I mean one
doesn't wanna overly parse words
because sometimes that gets
you into all kinds of politics
around people feeling like
you're overly parsing words.
But I can only
begin to emphathize
what it means to be
a woman in tech.
So, can I align
myself with them?
Can I be their ally?
I don't know.
I can't relate.
I can only advocate for them.
I can only begin to imagine and
to empathize.
>> So it sounds like you were
given the honor of being one of
the keynote openers,
specifically, at
We Rise Women Tech.
But you were a bit
nervous about it,
coming in as a male presenter,
and
you mentioned that you wanted
to avoid mansplaining.
How did you avoid any
accidental patronizing
at gender-aware events?
>> I think that there's
a spectrum right now,
of people who are enthusiastic
about helping women in tech.
And that spectrum can go
from fairly moderate and
harmless things to do, all
the way up to very enthusiastic
people who will swear and
go very confrontational.
Aspects of, they feel so
strongly about that that
this is gonna be a fight.
And I don't want to do anything
other than just help people out.
At the same time, I dont really
feel like parsing my language
too much, so usually I just ask.
If you're working with someone,
and
you don't know their
gender pronoun, you ask.
If you are talking to someone,
and
you say- you start explaining
HTTP, and you say,
" how familiar are you
with the HTTP stack?
And they say,
completely familiar,
then assume that they're right.
>> Right.
>> They said completely
familiar, and then up-level.
From a conference's perspective,
I literally just assume
everyone is an engineer.
Those little changes
make it a lot easier for
me to not mansplain.
>> So, you mentioned you
are the chair of Oz Con and
you've been working to increase
the number of women speakers.
How do you establish that
representation goal and
rally the conference
team to work towards it?
You mentioned earlier about
an inclusive panel, but
how about specifically for
female speakers?
More representation for
keynotes.
>> The number one thing we've
been trying to do is to cast
a wide net and to use a great
quote from a friend of mine
Siran Yutbarac who
runs codenewbies.org.
She says that technology
has always been diverse,
it just hasn't always
been inclusive.
So while some people might
not necessarially believe it,
the women are out there.
The people of color
are out there.
They're coding, it's just
maybe you can't see them.
So I think that the arguments
of there's a pipeline problem or
there aren't enough
people in tech.
I think that there just
aren't enough people in
tech that are working
in visible ways.
And the more visible people
that we can find the better and
it's just going to improve
you know the statistics until
the statistics
are representative.
>> Right.
>> I don't think it's gonna be
a 50/50 thing right.
If you look at for
example black people in America
are 13% of the population.
It's unreasonable to
expect them to be 50% of
the technology population but
if it's roughly representative
where it's know rolling the dice
comes out with some statistical
representation that'a great.
So, while trying to avoid
pie chart diversity,
we're simply trying
to cast a wider net.
We go out to different
organizations and
let people know that the CFP is
out there, that the call for
papers is happening.
>> Specifically for our
listeners, how do you think they
can help create more inclusive
workplace cultures and
help best support diversity
in the tech industry.
We talk about conferences and
panels,
but what about our
day to day coworkers?
>> I feel like it's
the little things.
I'll give you one example, and
hopefully my team won't mind.
I'm on a team right now.
I have a team of four people,
myself included, right.
And I have a young black
woman on my team and
then two men, white men.
You might look at them and say
okay well the two white guys and
Scott are all the same people.
But one's a veteran and one has
an invisible disability and
there is diversity for
lack of a better word there.
But when the young black woman
joined our team, we started
using GIFs and memes to refer to
the things that we understood,
like the movie Office Space,
which is clearly required for
everyone, right?
>> Of course.
>> But
she'd never seen it because
she's in her 20s, right?
>> Mm-hm.
>> The simplistic thing to do
would be to say, well make her
watch Office Space so that
she'll feel part of the team.
But that could encompass
her with our culture and
ignore hers.
Do you see what I'm saying?
So instead we made a team,
our Microsoft team is a group.
We said everyone give us movies
that you think we should
watch and TV shows you
think we should watch.
And we'll all watch them.
And then we'll merge all
of our memes together.
So she said you all
should watch Doctor Who
because she's English and
none of us ever
watched Doctor Who
>> Yeah.
>> Now we're all into it and
now we're mixing memes
with Chewing Gum,
which she watches and Office
Space which we had her watch.
So we made our team culture,
the sum of its parts,
as opposed to forcing her
to join our team and be us.
We don't want her to be us.
We want her to be her.
>> So where can our
listeners find you online?
>> You can google me with
Bing and if you search for
Scott Hanselman,
you'll find hanselman.com.
You can find my Podcast there,
you can follow me on Twitter.
[MUSIC].
I've been online for the better
part of 20 plus years.
I got over 600 almost
episodes of my show.
So if you go to Hanselminutes
it's a 30 minute show,
it's a great commute show and
there's a lot of really
cool women in tech.
So if you like this show I think
that you will like my show
as well.
>> That's great.
[MUSIC]
>> Cutting Edge, our take on
stories in the business and
technology world.
[MUSIC]
>> In this cutting edge
segment we're gonna talk about
an article that was published
in Levo League in mid September
entitled.
Welcome to Curvycon, the body
positivity celebration that
New York Fashion Week
desperately needed.
Curvycon was previously
a gathering of fashion bloggers
who were specifically interested
in plus size fashion.
But this year the conference
officially became part of
New York Fashion Week with
their inaugural runway show.
And the show was met with
a lot of great acclaim.
It was sold out.
Which I think is demonstrative
of this interest and
acceptance of this part
of the fashion world.
>> So this is a trend that
we've seen, fortunately,
gain some traction
over the years.
I remember back in the days
when I was modeling,
they were starting
to enforce some
healthy BMI level restrictions.
So any woman that was below a
level 15, she wasn't allowed to
be part of fashion week
until she got healthy again.
And so we've seen this
now start to accelerate,
I think, in the past few years.
And there's a growing
acceptance of women of
all shapes and sizes.
No pun intended.
But it's great to see a growing
and diverse areas of fashion.
We've seen Ashley Graham
get on the cover for
Sports Illustrated.
All the way to the women taking
it in their own hands and
starting to create
fashion lines themselves.
So Gabi Gregg and
Nicolette Mason launched
a plus sized fashion line.
It's awesome and I'm super
excited to see what happens in
the next couple of years.
>> Totally, you know this
article cites a poll of 1,500
women who wear a size 14 or
larger and
self identify as plus size.
72% of those 1,500 women said
they do not believe fashion
designers create their designs
with the average woman in mind.
And the stat and
the conference itself
sort of points to the
significant market opportunity.
I think that CurvyCon creates
this space for women with
an inclusive perspective
to recognize early on.
In this case super
late in the game
that there's a huge
market opportunity here.
And to capitalize on that by
creating their own lines and
making this
previously restricted
industry in the world open and
accepting of more humans.
>> I love that people are taking
it on and creating their own
lines and I have to give a shout
out to a Surface partner I was
working with previously.
She started a company called
Lab 141 which are going
to existing designers,
equipping them with her tech to
basically make a made to order,
outfits that are of a plus
size woman's specific needs.
So in terms of helping
fit the market there and
understanding that there are
these women who are willing and
able to spend for
existing designers and
they're just having difficulty
finding their sizes.
She's helping fill that void.
But I love seeing all these
women at Curvycon who are like,
you know what, I'm gonna
create my own designs and
I'm gonna make it and
take it into my own hands.
So, I think this is a awesome
step in the right direction.
And like I said,
I'm excited to see what happens
in the February Fashion Week.
Who knows what'll happen then.
>> Yeah so,
shout out to all of these people
creating awareness of the market
opportunity, making more people
feel included in this world, and
making options that work for
a more diverse group of people.
[MUSIC]
>> Another great episode.
Thank you so much for tuning in.
>> As always, you can find us on
Apple Podcast, Google Play, or
wherever you get your podcasts.
Be sure to subscribe and
of course,
please recommend us to a friend
you think would like this show.
We're always looking for
more fans.
>> Of course,
we're also looking for
any feedback or
questions you might have.
You can email us at
wibt@microsoft.com, or
you can even tweet at
us @microsoftwomen.
We look forward to
hearing from you.
[MUSIC]
