Hey, everybody.
Today, we'll be talking about scambaiting:
the practice of talking to scammers,
pretending you don't know what's going on,
wasting their time, and
having a big laugh about it on the internet.
(KITBOGA as NEVAEH)

Woo, woo! Chugga-chugga-chugga…
(SCAMMER)

(KITBOGA)
What about you, can you do it?
(SCAMMER)
Woo, woo. Chugga-chugga-chugga…
(BIG JOEL)
But, I'm gonna talk about it in a way that
I think might make people a bit uncomfortable.
So, I wanted to start off by saying two things:
First, scammers are doing a really bad thing.
They steal from innocent people,
and prey on the elderly, and all that.
Second, scambaiting is a fine thing to do.
It's good, even, to waste the time
of a person doing a bad thing.
So, now that we've made these moral claims,
I want us to forget about them.
I watch scambaiting videos
all the time, and I'll tell you right now,
I don't do it because scammers are bad
and scambaiters are virtuous.
Rather, I watch them because I like them.
Because they're funny, because they're art I enjoy.
And this is how I want to talk about
scambaiting: as a kind of art.
As a series of signs and relationships that
communicate something to us.
For the rest of this video, I want you to imagine something:
that these videos are all fictional.
A play written by somebody who wanted
to create a meaningful experience.
And, if you imagine that, the next question is clear;
What's the play about? What's going on in it?
Part One — Setting the Scene
Okay, let's begin this conversation by asking a question.
What is the average American's relationship to
the working-class people of somewhere like India?
Now, of course this question is cursed from the outset,
because there is no one answer.
There are people with Indian friends and penpals,
there are Indian-Americans with
family in India, and the list goes on.
But, let's blur our eyes here, and give an answer
that probably most people can relate to.
We know the working-class people of India
through customer support.
When I have a problem with my internet,
or want something returned, or something like that,
I can very easily find myself talking to
an Indian person who will help me fix it.
This is a strange relationship, right?
The first word that comes to mind to describe it is robotic.
The conditions and training involved in being an Indian customer support worker obscure the sense
that the worker you're talking to is a person,
a person who lives in another country.
Many of these people work the graveyard shift,
essentially live their lives on American time in India, because they have to receive our calls.
They are taught not to speak with an American accent exactly, but to be accentless, easily understandable to us.
And they practice English and practice
losing their accents for hours at a time.
They're taught to give a Western name because,
as one customer support trainer says,
"Tell an American your name is Raja, and
an F-word pops out. Better to use a fake name."
And, just in general, much of
their labor is emotional in nature,
as they have to patiently and calmly deal with
irate American clients who want to be serviced,
and who are often mad that they're speaking to an Indian.
So, in all ways, the interaction between
an American and an Indian customer support worker
is defined by a performed absence.
The worker's identity, their time, their emotions,
their accent, their culture, their name,
are all obfuscated as much as possible,
so as to create a homogeneous, accessible,
and non-threatening experience for the American user —
— and this is the relationship that
a scammer is interested in.
There are a lot of scams out there.
From the standard, "I'm a Nigerian prince,"
"and if you send me $300, I'll give you $10,000,000."
to the newer identity theft scams, where
somebody pretending to work for the IRS says
"Your identity has been stolen and
you need to send money to fix the situation."
But in this video, I want to focus on one scam
you often see coming from Indian call centers:
customer support scams. Your computer fails,
or you want to refund or to cancel a payment,
so you look up a number on Google and find one that's close to the top, and you find yourself talking to a scammer
who ends up hijacking your computer and stealing
your money through any number of methods.
So, I want to start off by saying
a kind of simple observation:
that the work of a legitimate customer support worker
and that of a scammer are eerily similar,
both in terms of methods and aesthetics.
They both follow a script, a tightly organized
series of steps and procedures.
They both have to be incredibly
patient with Western clients,
often teaching them the very basics
of how to operate a computer.
They both speak with a helpful and somewhat distant tone.
They both use a fake name.
None of this stuff is a coincidence, of course.
The entire point of a customer support scam is
to convince people that it's the real thing
so you can get their money. But even as this point
might be obvious, it is very strange, I think.
Just a few minutes ago, I was saying
that to the American consumer,
the existence of an Indian tech support worker
is founded on an absence,
on service with an enforced lack of identity
or perceptible culture.
And, if that is the case, then what are
we supposed to make of this scammer?
This figure who plays the same part that a customer
support worker plays, who evokes that same absence,
but who is lying about their
purpose on a fundamental level,
trying to extract your money,
to gain power at your expense.
And, if the customer support worker is interpolated as
a robot, then what exactly is a scammer?
Part Two — The Plot
Well, it seems to me that the work of a scambaiter
exists, on some level, to ask and explore that question.
And, in this part of the video,
I want to explore that exploration.
So, I basically just said that the work of a scammer is similar to that of a legitimate customer support worker,
but I think this statement was slightly
misleading, and that's for one reason:
scammers aren't particularly hard to spot.
I don't want to judge anybody for falling for
one of these things, it can happen to anybody.
But, the truth is, if you're internet literate and know
a few basic things, you'll be fine 100% of the time.
A legit customer support worker
will not ask for bank details.
They won't try to take over your screen.
And, I mean, look, the way a refund scam works
is to give your mark the impression that you
accidentally sent way too much money, freak out,
tell them you'll lose your job if the money isn't returned
to you, and then get them to go to a department store
and buy thousands of dollars worth of gift cards for you.
This is all to say, from the outside,
a scammer does not appear to most people as
a copy of a real customer support worker,
but instead as this strange simulacra,
doing things and behaving in ways
that are completely strange and alien to
a legit customer service relationship.
Sure, a scammer might look like
a normal worker if you blur your eyes,
but they are obviously and fundamentally different,
and this difference is where the scambaiter lives.
Today, we're gonna be focusing on Kitboga.
Probably the most famous scambaiter, and
one who mostly does customer support scams,
And to watch one of his videos is to see him
methodically pull at every string possible,
engage with, and illuminate all
of the strange things about scammers,
while pretending like he has no idea what's going on.
Looking at a video, like "'Ethical Hacker'
Called Out When His Scam Fails,"
we can see that Kitboga asks about a million questions.
"Why do you need me to fill out this strange form
with all of my personal information?"
(KITBOGA, as NEVAEH)
Like, you called me to give me
my money back. Why would I fill this out?
(KITBOGA)
Can I just have my—? Can I have my money, please?
(BIG JOEL)
"Why do you need me to log into my bank
on my computer, as opposed to my phone?"
(KITBOGA)
I'm actually… Yeah, I'm actually
logging on my phone right now, hold on.
(SCAMMER)
Not from the phone, madam.
You have to do it from the computer.
(KITBOGA)
No, it's fine. Sksksks.
(BIG JOEL)
"What normal reason could you possibly have for that?"
"Why aren't I allowed to turn my computer off?
It's malfunctioning."
(SCAMMER)
Did you turn it off?
(KITBOGA)
Yeah, I told you, I turned it off.
(SCAMMER)
Why?
(KITBOGA)
Because…? It was flashing
on and off and on and off again.
(BIG JOEL)
"Why are you writing those strange numbers?"
"How did you end up sending me all this money?"
"Wait, why do I have to go to Target?"
(SCAMMER)
We want Target gift card.
(SCAMMER)
We want Target gift card for $3,500.
(KITBOGA)
…Why do you want a Target gift card?
(BIG JOEL)
At every step, the scammer and
his practice are interrogated,
until the dysfunctional and almost absurd
nature of his work is brought into light.
And, what does this interrogation mean?
What does it accomplish?
Well, we might say that it's
a break from the established order.
I mean, think about it this way:
Everything that's mechanical
about the relationship between
an American and an international
customer support worker is stripped away here.
The real customer support worker often seems to follow
a step-by-step guide to help you solve your problem.
But, because the scambaiter asks so many questions,
The scammer is forced to go off-script.
(KITBOGA)
So, you give me my refund, on your computer,
(KITBOGA)
and I'm not gonna write it on
a piece of paper like a cave-woman.
(SCAMMER)
Okay, okay, no problem—
(KITBOGA)
I'm gonna type it like a modern…
modern girl, like I am, on my notepad.
(SCAMMER)
Okay, I will give you, I will give you. Okay.
(SCAMMER)
I'm typing it for you, okay?
I am typing, you don't do anything.
(KITBOGA, to his audience)
I'm doing this just to ruin his whole scam, like,
(KITBOGA, to his audience)
obviously it doesn't make sense.
He doesn't— he wouldn't need to use my computer.
(KITBOGA, to his audience)
But, I'm just giving him a hard time.
(BIG JOEL)
The legit worker is both detached from and
a representative of the company they work for.
They don't see the profits of Microsoft, they aren't particularly invested in what the company does or makes.
Yet, when you speak to them, it's implied that their words
somehow come from the company itself.
Its authority. Its desires.
But, with this interrogation, the scammer
is revealed to be acting entirely for his own benefit.
As the scambaiter points out and laughs at,
there is no real authority behind the scammer's requests.
Microsoft doesn't take payments in Steam gift cards.
He's asking you to do things because
he wants you to do them. That's it.
The legit worker never shows much emotion or personality.
As we've already described, their job
is uniquely catered towards
treating Americans and other
Western clientele with kid gloves.
But, by the end of many of these videos,
the scammer can no longer keep up that fiction.
After being picked at and picked at,
sometimes for multiple hours,
The scammer is often outwardly angry,
insulting the scambaiter, justifying their actions, etc.
(SCAMMER)
You are a f—ing idiot, and you are out of mind. Okay?
(BIG JOEL)
In every possible way, these scambaiting
interrogations remove the façade that
the worker you're talking to has no identity. No agency.
And so, the Western audience is presented here with a vision that unsettles its understanding of international labor.
Looking at a video like this, I can't see a non-threatening, culturally neutered, mechanical interaction
that is tailored exclusively to my needs.
No, what I see is that system in dysfunction.
A broken robot. A person.
Part Three — Climax
Watching a scambaiting video,
it's obvious who we're going to root for.
I mean, as I said at the very beginning,
scammers are doing a very bad thing, harming people,
and so it's only natural for us to want
them to lose, want the scambaiter to win.
What's more, there's no real suspense in a video like this.
Before we even start watching,
we know that nobody's about to get scammed,
that the scammer will be duped, and by
the end of the video, all we do is laugh at the dude.
At his flimsy plot. At his deluded belief that
he was actually gonna pull his scheme off.
At how mad he gets when he realizes
it won't work. At how shitty he is.
As such, the video provides
a sense of closure and reassurance.
Sure, the scammer presents a threat,
a threat to our money, and more importantly here,
a threat to our understanding of international labor,
but, that's all being taken care of now.
The scammer has lost. The story is over.
And any sense of his agency can be put in this neat
little prank call box, enjoyed and forgotten about. Right?
Well, I'm not so sure it can be as simple as that.
Because, even though we can laugh with
these videos and feel morally vindicated by them,
there's something kind of sticky and
haunting about the whole thing, isn't there?
And, to explain why I say that, let me end this video
by telling you about the moment
I decided to make this video.
At one point as I was watching
the video, FIGURE IT OUT LATER,
the scammer, now in control of Kitboga's computer,
tries to open up his webcam and look at him.
(SCAMMER)
I'll open this web camera.
(KITBOGA, as NEVAEH)
Um…
(KITBOGA)
No, there's better… I'm not really—
(KITBOGA)
I don't really look good right now, but thank you for asking.
(SCAMMER)
No problem, ma'am. No problem.
(KITBOGA)
I have better pictures. There's
a lot better pictures on my computer.
(KITBOGA)
Okay, yeah. Well, no, I just, I don't want…
(KITBOGA)
I don't want you to see me without
makeup or anything, you know—? Hey, no!
(BIG JOEL)
This is a fairly common thing
for scammers to do, apparently.
You can see it here:
(SCAMMER)
Do you have a camera on your computer? No?
(KITBOGA, as HIMSELF)
Um… no, I'm sorry.
(BIG JOEL)
And here:
(JIM BROWNING)
They continue to watch her for several minutes.
(BIG JOEL)
And, I find this practice scary in every sense of the word.
It's scary viscerally, of course, because
it's a complete invasion of privacy,
This voyeuristic, non-consensual act.
But, it's also scary in a more abstract way, I think.
See, our relationship with workers of the Global South
is defined by a series of transactions;
transactions which we don't really think about for
the most part,
beyond even customer service, which I've obviously already talked about.
What mental image do we in the Western world have
in the places where our coffee is picked?
The manufacturing of our iPhones done?
The materials for our computers mined?
Well, if you're me, not a very clear picture at all.
And, so, in this moment between
a scammer and a scambaiter,
we see something outside of this strange system
of transactions we've become so accustomed to.
There is no big reason for the scammer
to look at the face of the person he's talking to,
at least not one that I've heard.
There is no money to be gained there.
Rather, him doing that can only be explained with
two incredibly simple, incredibly human facts:
First, when you call up some number
with your customer support needs,
a scammer or a legit worker,
they don't know what you look like.
Second,
they might want to.
So, that's the end of the video.
I thought this is kind of a weird
niche one and maybe a bit confusing,
but, I hope you liked it.
And if you did, feel free to like, comment,
subscribe, give me money on Patreon, etc
The art for this video was done by Mothcub
and you can find her link in the description.
And now, finally, it's time for my
Patreon question of the video:
doffy asks,
"Do you have any interesting takes on Kung-Fu Panda?"
That would be a fun video. You know, I haven't
really seen the Kung-Fu Pandas in a while,
but I thought they were good.
Does that count as an interesting take?
That was a terrible answer.
I'm gonna answer another question.
Jacob Freedman asks,
"What podcasts do you listen to?"
Zero podcasts.
That's two shitty answers for the price of one. There.
Alright, enjoy it. Enjoy your lives. Bye.
