

Frequently Asked Questions:

Spirits & Spirit Influence

By

Jesus (AJ Miller) &

Mary Magdalene (Mary Luck)

Session 1

Published by

Divine Truth, Australia at Smashwords

http://www.divinetruth.com/

Copyright 2015 Divine Truth

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This ebook is a collection of answers given by Jesus (AJ Miller) on the topic of Spirits and Spirit Influence. The answers were given in an interview with Mary Magdalene (Mary Luck), who posed frequently asked questions from members of the media and public, on 26th June 2013 in Wilkesdale, Queensland, Australia. In this session Jesus answers basic questions surrounding spirits (people who have died), whether spirits are "real", proof of their existence, seeing spirits, and the influence people who have died have over our lives. Since Jesus & Mary have a large amount of personal experience with this subject, detailed information is given to the reader regarding these questions.

Reminder From Jesus & Mary

Jesus and Mary would like to remind you that any document produced by Divine Truth containing any information from Jesus, Mary or any other person includes only a portion of God's Truth that they have personally discovered.

It does not and cannot contain the entire of God's Truth since God's Truth is infinite and humankind will forever continue to discover more of God's Truth as we progress in receiving more of God's Love.

Please remember that due to these limitations information contained within this document may need to be revised in the future.

Many other ebooks have been published by Divine Truth, including ebooks translated into a variety of different languages.

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Table of Contents

1. What are spirits?

2. What's the difference between a spirit and a ghost? Are ghosts real?

3. Where do spirits exist or live?

4. Why should we believe in spirits? What evidence is there?

5. How can we be certain about the existence of spirits?

6. How can we learn to perceive or see spirits ourselves?

7. How can spirits influence people on earth?

8. Why do spirits influence people on earth?

9. Why has God allowed spirits to influence people on earth?

10. Can spirits be dangerous?

11. What is spirit influence, attachment, over-cloaking & possession?

1. What are spirits?

Mary: What are spirits?

Well, simply put spirits are just humans who no longer have a physical body – that's all they are. In other words anybody who passes from the earth to the spirit world, has with them, or still has, their consciousness, what we call their consciousness, or to put it more correctly, their soul with them, and they also have a spirit body attached to that soul; and the only difference between them and ourselves is the fact that we have a physical body also attached to the spirit body. Whereas a person who has become a spirit no longer has a physical body attached to their spirit body. They only have a spirit body attached to their soul still.

But in terms of their physical functioning and their spiritual functioning, they still have a body, it looks very, very similar, (depending on their condition) to their body as it looked on earth before they passed, and on top of that they have very similar apparatus. So the spirit body has eyes, ears, nose, mouth, it has internal digestive organs (the spirit body does). And so a spirit is a person who has passed over into the spirit world, who no longer has a physical body, but still has a body in which they can experience the universe.

They are not limited by the same dimensional limitations that we have in the physical dimension. So, in other words, they can pass through physical matter; whereas we in our physical body cannot pass through physical matter, as far as it is understood at this point in time.

The spirit can also see things in a different way than we can see them. They see everything from a spirit body's perspective rather than from a physical body's perspective, but essentially they are the same person in a different body, and that's all. There's no great enlightenment that occurs as soon as a person passes, there's no feelings of some kind of recollection of their past lives because the reality is they had no past lives.

And so there is just the same person with the same ideas, the same concepts, the same belief systems, the same emotional problems, the same physical difficulties, with only one exception and that is now they are not constrained by the physical universe they are now able to see both the physical and spiritual universes.

Mary: So just to clarify, has every spirit at one time had a physical body and a physical life on earth?

Yes. However they might not have been conscious of such a physical body because they might have been conceived but never born. So in other words, if they were aborted or they were miscarried, they did have a physical body while they were on earth, but they may not have had the intellectual consciousness of that body because that comes over a period of time.

So every single person who has ever existed and who now exists in the spirit world has had a physical body while on earth but they may not be conscious of themselves having such a body if their body died usually by the age of two years of age or under, or died during gestation, while in their mother's womb - then they would not necessarily be conscious of the fact that they had such a body.

Mary: And just also to clarify, from what you are saying then, when we pass, when we die in our physical body, will we all become spirits?

Yes. Every single person who has ever died has always become instantly a spirit. There's a separation that occurs between the physical body and the spirit body, and this is called a cord that connects the two. You could think of it like an electrical conduit that passes all of the information from one body to the spirit body and then via the spirit body to the soul. And that electrical conduit breaks, it tears apart, and that's called the silver cord, it breaks, and once the silver cord breaks it is impossible for the soul and the spirit body to receive information through the physical body anymore.

So the physical body just becomes like something that decays on earth and eventually returns to the physical elements of the ground and anywhere else it might be. If it's cremated, it might go into the physical elements of the air, but the reality is that the body itself is no longer animated by life because the soul and the spirit body are no longer attached to the physical body.

So, you can think of it as: you've got your soul, your spirit body, and your physical body, and the physical body is attached via a cord, which spirits call the silver cord (it looks like a silver cord) to the spirit body, and then the spirit body is attached to the soul. The spirits can't actually see the attachment but there is a physical attachment, let's call it the golden cord shall we, to separate it but it's like another electrical conduit - if you like - that gets all of the input apparatus of the spiritual body and all of that sensory input is filtered through, through the experience of the spirit, into the soul.

So the soul is a repository of the spirit body's life experiences and memories and such forth, and also the physical body's life experiences and sensory apparatus.

But once the physical body separates from the spirit body, and the silver cord is broken, now from that moment on, the soul and the spirit body can no longer receive information from the physical body. So the physical body just becomes a part of the natural process of decomposition, and the spirit body finishes up being the primary dominant way in which the spirit experiences it's existence.

2. What's the difference between a spirit and a ghost? Are ghosts real?

Mary: What's the difference between a spirit and a ghost? Are ghosts real?

Well, yes, ghosts are real. We need to look at the difference between the spirit person and a ghost. The reality is for most instances a ghost is an apparition of the spirit person's body. In other words it's the spirit manifesting a physical form so that a person can see the spirit with their own eyes, but because the spirit - usually who does this - is not in a very good condition, they can't gather together all of the substances of the universe in order to make a solid form, and so it's a form that you can see through, it's a form that's ghostly in it's appearance.

So for the majority of so called ghost viewings or sightings, it's the actual single person, a spirit, trying to manifest a physical body in order to display itself to a person on earth, but not managing energetically to create enough energy to do it, and as a result it is an apparition, a ghostly type of apparition that the person on earth can see through.

However it is also possible for a group of spirits to manifest one ghostly apparition.

So, a group of spirits can, by the co-operative use of their own energy systems gather together a form, which they then animate through their own expression. So a ghost, if you like, can also be a combination of a collective group of spirits manifesting enough energy in order to create an apparition of some kind.

Now the reason why a group of spirits would be needed to do that is because the energy from one of those spirits is not strong enough to do it and so what they generally do, these kind of spirits - in order to scare somebody or to influence somebody negatively, what they do is they get together as a band of spirits, just for the purpose of creating the apparition and then animating the apparition so that a physical person can see it.

So remember that the apparition is a physical manifestation of energy, it's not a spiritual energy, so it is very, very different from a person who is mediumistic who can see a spirit person's body. If we are mediumistic we are actually looking at the spirit person's body, not an apparition of the spirit person's body \- not a manifestation of a spirit person's body.

Whereas an apparition that can be seen by the majority of people on the planet at any point in time - whether they are mediumistic or not - has to be created by the spirit by drawing the elements in the surrounding parts of the physical universe together in such a way as to form an apparition that the individual can see and then they animate such an apparition in order to communicate, whether it's just to communicate fear or to communicate some other kind of other idea or concept.

So ghosts are real in the sense that they are real happenings but they might not be a real person. They might actually be the manifestation of a number, even hundreds, and sometimes even thousands of persons, who generate enough energy to manifest one ghost if you like.

Mary: So from what you are saying, if I see a ghost, I might be seeing a conglomeration of spirits that have gotten together to create an image, for my physical eyes to see.

Correct

Mary: Or I might be seeing just the conglomeration of some physical energy that one spirit has gathered to represent them selves.

Yes. But in both cases they cannot gather together enough energy to create a solid form.

Mary: Right. Yep. And what I see may not be actually how the spirit actually appears in their spirit body.

Exactly, Yes, most likely it will not be, because it will be a manifestation of their own creation, so it's what they want you to see, not necessarily what they actually are.

Mary: You also made another distinction there where if I see, I can use my physical eyes, my sight, to see a ghost or an apparition. But if I am a medium I might actually be able to see with my spirit senses another spirit.

Exactly, and that's a different form of seeing, and that's not an apparition or a ghost, that's actually seeing the physical body of the spirit itself, in it's spirit form, using your spirit body's eyes to see it. And your spirit body has eyes as well as other senses and so it has the ability to sense, taste, touch, smell, and everything, as a spirit, and as a result we have the ability to see all of these things.

These abilities get turned off often during our childhood, but for the majority of people they still remain under certain situations and conditions. So, for example, when we have heightened emotions such as fear or other kinds of emotions, that's when we become very sensitive to seeing such things.

Mary: So when there's lots of stories, isn't these about people seeing ghosts or seeing apparitions, and really we could then, in those instances with those people it could have been one of two things happening, couldn't it?

Correct.

Mary: Either this sight with the physical eyes, or sight with a mediumistic ability.

Yes. And quite often for most people, they did have a sight with their mediumistic ability when they were children. This is why most children have - you know - friends that they talk to.

Mary: Imaginary friends

Yes, so called imaginary friends, that they talk to and experience life with, that are actually real people, that surround the person; but then, we as adults, we sort of force them to grow out of that, and so by the time a person's become an adult, generally it's not socially acceptable that they talk to invisible people: and so as a result of that they shut down the ability. That being said, there are a lot of people who do have the ability as an adult to speak with the individual people that are spirits. So there is a lot of it still occurring but unfortunately, most of the time we have turned it down by the time we've become an adult.

3. Where do spirits exist or live?

Mary: Where do spirits exist or live?

Well, they live in a wide range of places, in the dimension that's not of the physical dimension. So, in the spirit dimensions \- there are at the moment 36 other dimensional existences including the earth based dimension - and spirits may live in any one of these dimensions, depending upon their condition.

So it depends on their condition of love as to where they actually live. Now, for the majority of people who pass from this earth in the first instance, they generally are not aware that there is a spirit world and so therefore they become very bound to the earth. They want to stay on the earth, usually all of their loved ones are on earth, all of the people they care for are on earth, all of the people they are interested in, their life's still on earth, their life that they were interested in is still on earth, and so what they finish up doing is they focus their energy and attention on staying on earth.

So, we do have a lot of spirits - many, around 20 billion spirits or so - who are currently living on earth with us. They are invisible, and we are physical, they can see us but we can't always, and for the majority of people, none of us can see them. But that doesn't mean that they don't feel that they have productive lives doing all sorts of things because they do. Many of them still work, many of them still think they are going to work, and many of them still think they are digging holes, and many of them still think they are living in a house, and many of them still think all sorts of things actually that are not real anymore. When I say not real that's not what they have to have as the reality of their life. But they choose that reality because they can't cope emotionally or psychologically with accepting any other possible existence.

Once a spirit moves beyond that position he or she - then moves into the first dimension of the spirit world where they are now conscious that they are a spirit; they are conscious that they no longer have a material body; they are conscious that there has been a change in their condition if you like, a change in their experience. But their condition in love determines where they can live.

So if their condition of love is the average person's condition, who passes from the earth to the spirit world, then they can only live in the first dimension of the spirit world; and if their condition of love is worse than that they will live in what's called the hells of the spirit world, which is in the first dimension, they are in the first dimension of the spirit world, but they are places that are dark and dingy without light and often smelly, and the condition matches the condition of their own soul in love.

So spirits range from that condition right the way through to what people would classify as a Divine Angel a person in the 36th dimension, who has completed the soul union state, is an amalgamation of two people who lived on earth, they have still two bodies generally attached to their soul and two spirit bodies attached to their soul, but they've now become one soul again. That particular person is in an immensely beautiful state, full of love and compassion, full of sympathy for all the rest of the people in the other states, and as a result they are able to go through any of these dimensions, through the entire 36 dimensions.

Whereas the spirit in the first dimension has no option of going to the second dimension, unless they raise their condition in love there is no option of going, transcending the first dimension and into the second; so the spirit in the first dimension often cycles between the earth and the first dimension.

And that might happen for hundreds of years or even potentially thousands of years, although generally it doesn't happen for thousands of years, because most of the people they are interested in eventually pass as well, and disappear from the earth, and so eventually most people find through the disappearance of their relatives and their friends from the earth, that they themselves come to see that they've also died and they also must be now a spirit living in the spirit form, and so they come to understand a few of the basic truths of the universe just through that experience.

But in terms of where they live, they can live in the depths of what is classified by the spirits as the hells of the spirit world, in a very dark condition where they can barely manifest a spiritual form, right the way through to the 36th dimensional condition which is a soul union condition where they can manifest hundreds of thousands of forms at the same time, and can also manifest physical bodies on the earth if they wish to come here and express certain things under certain conditions.

Whereas a spirit in the lowest of the hells or who is earth bound: it is very highly unlikely that without assistance they could manifest a form of any kind, unless it is some kind of ghostly apparition.

If they tried to manifest a form that is purely physical they usually don't have enough energy to do so, and also, it degrades the energy that helps them maintain the form of their own spirit body and so most of them can't manage such a thing for any long periods of time.

Mary: So you are saying that spirits can live in a lot of different places, from the earth, they can still remain living on the earth, even after they pass, and then there are these dimensions from one to 36. Where are those dimensions?

Well, now we are talking about sort of dimensional existence, and with the dimensional existence you have the ability to occupy the same space at the same time, to be in a completely different location. And this is something of course, that mathematics has proven, as a possibility, and in fact I think at this stage we have proven on earth through computation that there are around 13 dimensions, through mathematics, but we don't have the computational power on earth at present to prove the existence of the 14th dimension. But what I am saying is there are 36 of them, and these dimensions exist in simultaneous reality. So they are if you like different universes taking up the same space at the same time. Now, when I say that, they are separated through existences, and they can be separated, in terms of space they can also be separated. So they are not always taking up the same space at the same time.

And in fact there are 3 primary things that take up space in the same place at the same time, and that is: the sphere that is the physical, which is the physical universe; then there are the spheres which you would classify as focused on the spiritual which are from the first sphere through to the thirty fifth sphere; and then there's the spheres that look after the soul and that is the thirty sixth sphere onwards.

And so those three particular states of the human soul take up different places at the same time.

So now we are starting to get a bit complicated with regard to the question but the reality is, that any person who passes is still a person - and we must remember that and this is - they are still a person with the same ideals they had before they left earth, or lack of ideals; the same emotions that they had before they left earth; the same belief systems before they left earth; and so forth but, with a few modifications, depending on their awareness of their change in their condition, from death of their physical body to being alive in the spirit body. And sometimes some of the spirits become aware of that instantly, depending on their knowledge they had before such an event; whereas other spirits may take thousands of years to come to that awareness; and there are still some spirits who are currently earthbound who have not had an awareness over fifty thousand years; but that is very unusual and requires some fairly unusual circumstances: they all receive a lot of help to come to an awareness, so there has to be a lot of resistance to help and a lot of resistance to being taught before a person exists in that state for such a long time.

Mary: Okay, and you are also saying, from what you said earlier, that there are all these different dimensions that say I pass now I could go and live in, but that might actually change just like it might change where I live here on earth throughout my life, I can continue to change the place that I live in.

Of course. Yeah, because the place that you live in is dependant upon the condition of your soul in love: so the more loving you become the better the place you can live in in the spirit world; the more unloving you become - and it is possible to become more unloving in the spirit world after you have passed, and many spirits do that - the worse the condition that they live in in the spirit world, or on earth, as they regress.

So we have the potential to regress or progress even after we have passed into the spirit world. There's no such thing as being locked into the condition once we have passed. However there is this state where we do have to 'reap what we sowed' while we were on earth, once we pass. There is a Law that controls, and it is called The Law of Compensation, that controls what happens to us after we pass depending on what we chose to do before we passed. And so of course there are many spirits who are reaping the consequences of that Law after they pass, and that's why many of them feel like they are being punished. The reality is they are not being punished, they created the location and the condition of their soul, and therefore the location where they currently exist will have the restrictions based upon what condition of their soul has been created by them themselves. And so this is a loving Law to help a person come to see the results of their own creations, and the importance of acting more in harmony with love in their lives in the future.

But the conditions of spirits vary widely as you know, from being hellish, demonic in their condition - what the average person on earth would classify to be a devil – a person who is totally malevolent, a person who is totally wicked, unable to sustain any loving thought, or very few loving thoughts, right the way through to a person who has no evil in them whatsoever, only in harmony with all of God's Laws of Love, completely compassionate and understanding, and being able to maintain huge amounts of power in that state and huge amounts of bodies in fact in that state, as well. So, there's a large range from one to the other, of where spirits live and how they live.

Mary: And obviously that condition defines where they live. That's what you are saying.

Exactly, it's always the condition of love in their soul that defines where they live and also defines the conditions under which they live. It's the condition of love that attracts the subsequent environment and God's created it this way so that a spirit can become conscious of the fact that there is a relationship between love and it's environment; and between love and it's own condition; and between love and it's own experience; and God's always trying to teach us this relationship between love and what happens to us. And unfortunately though most spirits are not very conscious, particularly earth bound spirits, the ones, the 20 billion or so that are surrounding earth.

They're not very conscious of the fact that there is this relationship. Usually there are a lot of other spirits trying to assist them to become conscious but unfortunately there is a lot of cynicism on earth and a lot of belief systems that are very rigid on earth and unfortunately most of the spirits carry these - this cynicism and belief systems - into the spirit world and that makes them very resistive to being taught any new truth. And as such, they often remain in these quite dark conditions and quite restrictive conditions for long periods of time, until they realise that they can progress out of those conditions.

4. Why should we believe in spirits? What evidence is there?

Mary: Why should we believe in spirits? What evidence is there?

Well the reality is there's a mountain of evidence for the existence of spirits: of course, every person who dies knows that they become a spirit at some point; so every person who has ever lived on earth and all of the people who currently live on earth, eventually will pass and as soon as they pass, generally or shortly thereafter they will come to realise that they are still alive and so therefore are no longer connected to their physical body, but rather connected to their spirit body. So every single person that is ever alive eventually comes to terms with the fact that there are spirits: the majority of them don't come to terms with it while they are on earth. That's the reality.

The reality is there is a lot of cynicism on earth, there's a lot of disbelief on earth, for lots of different reasons, although I don't believe they are good reasons: they are often reasons based around cynicism and a lot of inaccuracy as well about understanding truth. But if we look at the evidence: there's a huge amount of evidence for the existence of a spirit world as well as the existence of people still alive after they have passed. And we have all of this evidence coming from - mostly a lot of it - from children.

So when a child is usually very, very young they usually see spirits; they talk to them and if you ask them - instead of treating the child like they're just talking to an imaginary friend \- if you ask them who they are talking to they will often give you the name of the person, they will even give you the street address where they used to live, how old they were when they died and everything else if the spirit themselves is conscious of the fact that they've died. And in this way, we can see quite clearly that the child is obviously seeing somebody and obviously speaking to somebody who is convinced exists and the child doesn't see it as a person that's a part of itself.

Unfortunately though, as we get older, we have a tendency to either beat it out of the child or suppress it out of the child through emotional suppression and so by the time the child becomes an adult, it's rare for the child to retain these particular abilities.

Now of course though, there are millions of people on this planet who have retained the ability to see spirits, talk with them, hear from them and interact with them generally; and there are literally millions of people who can do this on the planet. It's interesting that because it's not the experience of the majority of people; the majority of people deny the potential of its existence, although I would argue that the majority of people are quite fascinated by the whole thing because pretty much every body we know who has ever had this concept that when you are dead you are dead, is still very, very fascinated with the whole concept of what happens after your death and also with the concept of why some people seem to be able to foretell things and know things that the average person would never be able to foretell and know without there being some kind of interaction with the spirit world.

There is also a huge amount of evidence related to what happens with physical illness and what's going on with the physical body. We see things, for example, like a grandmother dying of cancer and then a child of three getting cancer within a few months of the death of the grandmother; and we call that - often we call that genetic disposition - but the reality is that it makes no sense that it's occurred within just a few months of the grandparent's death. And so we can see that there's a direct relationship between something going on in the grandparent and something going on in the child after the grandparent has died. And you know, this is what comes up with concepts of reincarnation and other such concepts that cause people to come up with ideas or concepts that try to explain these particular phenomena.

The reality is there are huge amounts of these particular things going on constantly and there's plenty of experiments that we could actually devise to test the validity and accuracy of the fact that there is a spirit world and of the fact that every person who dies becomes a spirit who still exists and often stays around the earth communicating with us for a period of time, but unfortunately most people in the scientific community are very against such experimentation for many philosophical and emotional reasons. I believe that if we release those emotional and philosophical reasons, I think we'd find huge amounts of evidence.

From our perspective, we've seen them. So obviously we don't need any evidence ourselves to support the argument and we've talked to them. We've spent two thousand years in the spirit world observing the interaction between spirits and people on earth. So, you know from our perspective it's a certainty. I suggest to other people it will become a certainty through their own experience, if they allow such experiences to occur.

Of course there are some people who have done that through examining things like séances and having other kinds of interactions with spirits, but unfortunately most of the time they are attracting quite dark spirits or spirits who are bound to the earth and so they don't get a very good concept of the accuracy of what spirits can actually do or see and how they interact with the earth. It's only spirits who have passed over long periods of time and who have progressed in love to higher dimensions generally that can finish up describing in a lot more accurate detail the reality of the interaction between people on earth and people who have passed over into the spirit world.

Mary: So from what you're saying there's not a lot of - there's sort of anecdotal evidence that we have and things that we can draw, we can make some hypothesis about, but we don't have concrete evidence because there hasn't been experimentation in this area. Is that what you mean?

No I feel there is concrete evidence it's just that the concrete evidence has never been engaged in experimentation; it's just been incidental. So for example, we've seen, for example, people have seen objects fly through the air. Obviously something caused the object to fly through the air, but most people saw it and sometimes you can see a group of people seeing exactly the same thing, but of course they don't understand what's behind the movement of the object and there's no experimentation after that point and so of course there is no way of validating what the cause was.

There is plenty of empirical evidence; it's just that there is a deep reluctance from the people who scientifically could analyse these causes to actually accept what the causes would actually conclude. Whereas all the people who know that for certain, have already seen the causes and they don't have any drive to provide the scientific evidence. So this is the problem we have with most systems on earth. The people who know about it, believe in it implicitly because they've seen evidence of it with their own eyes and ears and their own life whereas the people that don't know about it, don't believe in it at all because they've never seen any evidence of it in their own life. And what I'm suggesting is that there could be many studies done to prove the existence and there is much proof that's available but we on earth generally don't engage this proof. And there are very good reasons why this occurs.

Spirits themselves don't always want us to have proof of their existence. Many spirits have a lot of advantages over us by not being able to see or know of their existence and therefore they can influence us as an invisible influence rather than a visible one. It's much harder to influence somebody when they are standing next to you and they can see you than it is to influence somebody when they are standing next to you but you can't see them. And so many spirits themselves have investments in not being seen and have investments in our not being able to see them. And of course this adds to the problems associated with gathering evidence for the truth of such matters.

Mary: And that probably speaks to the first half of this question of why should we believe in spirits. Like, if they do exist, why care? Why is it relevant I suppose?

Oh it is just so relevant to our future existence: obviously it is so relevant to the choices we make in our current life. If we do live after death, after the death of our physical body, then that changes everything: it changes the way we live our life while we are in the physical body; it changes the types of concepts we have about life; the choices we make here; it even causes us to be much more reluctant to engage violence, to protect ourselves from our own death; it also causes us to want to investigate how we progress in the spirit world. How do we develop? How does our life continue? And investigate all of these matters. The reality is if the majority of people on earth actually believed in the spirit world there would be huge amounts of investigation occurring on earth about our future life and also it would have a huge effect on the choices and decisions we collectively and individually make while we are alive on earth.

Mary: And from what you were saying earlier - you were saying that spirits can actually influence our decisions and us not being aware of them means that we would be more open to their influence.

Of course: it's like having somebody whisper in your ear when you can't see the person whispering in your ear. Obviously it's much more difficult to believe that the whisper actually occurred than if you actually saw a person's face with their mouth open in your ear whispering in your ear. And it's very much the same with regard to interactions with spirits. If we understood these kind of interactions and that these kind of influences existed then we would be far more circumspect about the choices that we make and we would wonder far more strongly I suggest about what influences we are under when we make certain choices.

The reality is right on the planet at the moment, many deaths occur, murders occur under spirit influence; many suicides occur under spirit influence; and many of these things potentially would be reduced in terms of the numbers of occurrences if the people involved knew they were being influenced by some third party, by some unseen person who is malevolent who does not have their best interests at heart. When we are in the physical we can see when people don't have our best interests at heart generally - not all the time of course but generally we can - we can see their appearance; we can feel the nastiness coming out of them; we can feel the anger and other emotions coming out of them; we can see their motivations easier because we can see their face and we see their expressions and so forth; whereas if it's a person who has died we can't see generally those particular things, and that leaves us far more open to their influence and it leaves us far more open to deceit.

And so my feelings are, if we knew about the spirit world and we understood it more clearly, the majority of people on earth would be far more careful about their decision making process and they'd be far more circumspect about their choices in their lives.

Mary: Does it also work in the reverse, in that we would be far more cautious about someone whispering something detrimental or negative in our ear but perhaps we'd be more open as well to the benefit of spirits in a higher condition of love being able to assist us.

Of course and this is one of the main things that we should perhaps mention and that is that the reality is if we could see the difference between a nasty spirit and a spirit that was good. In other words see the difference between a nasty person and a person that is good, but see the difference even though they are invisible to our eyes right at this point in time. Then surely we would listen to the person that is good more often than we do and we would listen to the person who is not so good less often than we do.

The problem for us many times is, the persons who are trying to influence us in a positive direction from the spirit world, in a direction of love, have less influence over us because we can't see them and the person who we can't see but who are in a darker condition of love have a stronger influence over us because we can't see them. And if we could actually see them and we interacted with them and understand their existence and understand what their motivations were then we would be far more careful about who we are actually listening to and we'd also be far more open and we'd probably make much more rapid progress as a human race than we currently are.

5. How can we be certain about the existence of spirits?

Mary: How can we be certain about the existence of spirits?

Well often I've heard people who think they are talking to spirits actually just making up the entire thing and projecting something that's not real, so the reality is we can't be certain because unless we can see the spirit who is talking to the individual and feel their presence and understand their personality with any sensitivity then it's highly unlikely that we'll be able to determine with any sense of certainty whether it's the person whose claiming to speak on behalf of the spirit is actually doing so or is just making up things with their own mind. That's the reality.

The power of our human imagination is pretty strong. We are able to create many things from it, design many things from it, architect many things from it and as a result of that we are also able to architect false things from it. So the only way we can do it with certainty is we need to examine things with a lot more care, we need to be much more careful with the way we examine all of these interactions. I've seen many so called mediums not channelling a spirit at all but rather just telling a person, claiming that it's from a spirit because it gives the person more desire to know than if the person heard it from a person on earth by themselves.

So one of the problems that we have on earth is that we are willing to listen to people who are invisible usually much more than we are willing to listen to a person who's visible; and this is a problem.

Mary: Is that because we perceive that they're in a good condition because they're a spirit?

Well we don't know their condition. That's the reality. The fact that we can't see them means we don't know their condition. So the reality is we don't know their condition but for some reason we assume, due to our belief systems, we assume that a person who has passed, must automatically be in a better state than when they passed and that's not the case at all.

In fact in many cases, people who have passed continue to degrade their condition through their choices that are unloving. So we could actually have known the person before they passed and they could now be even in a worse condition than they were when they passed. So it's not always, we make a lot of assumptions on earth because of our belief systems and our belief systems all need to be tried; they all need to be proven. And the only way we can do this is by doing mass experiments. We can't just make one assumption or a group of assumptions without experimentation. So unless you have seen spirits and unless you have talked to them and unless you know that they are the people you are speaking to, and unless you've had the experience like we have of seeing it on the reverse end as well, seeing the spirits talking to the humans.

There is really no other way of determining the truth than through the process of experimentation. And what I'm suggesting is that we have the ability on earth to do wide varieties of experiments in this area of a metaphysical nature, but we have a deep resistance to doing so for lots of reasons. One of the reasons is to do with public opinion; another is to do with religious perception.

So if you look at public opinion as an issue, most people want to deny the existence of a spirit world because they'd be freaked out if they knew about it. So that's a great fear based reason to not find out. Many religious people, particularly of the Christian religious faith - there's things in the Bible that state categorically that we should not and cannot communicate with spirits and under the threat of God basically disowning us and us dying and being punished for such a thing - and so of course that creates a lot of fear in the Christian faith and there's one and a half billion Christians on the planet of course and so they are all being influenced through that belief to not investigate the truth.

So if we add up all of the different types of people who are influenced to not investigate the truth about the spirit world, there's literally two thirds to three quarters of this planet who have an emotional or religious investment in not finding out the truth about the spirit world. So what I would suggest, rather than listening to all of that, is that we need to set up a far more scientific basis for investigation of the spirit world. And that's going to mean putting aside religious beliefs and putting aside emotional beliefs, fear based beliefs, and actually looking at the situation from a purely scientific perspective. And to do that, if we did that, the reality is we would have, if we had done that thousands of years ago, the reality is by now we would know for certain the existence of these things. And we have the ability to do that now but unfortunately because of the earth based resistances that's not happening.

There are also resistances in the spirit world to us knowing for certain whether spirits exist and whether people who have passed over still exist and that is they like having influence over people on earth from an invisible perspective. If we could see them and if we could hear them and if we had instruments to measure them and measure their presence then of course they'd all be exposed and it would be much more difficult for them to deceive us in any way. So my suggestion is that the influences to no find out the truth about the spirit world come from a large number of different areas \- emotional, religious and spirit world motivations that cause us to never discover the truth about the issue.

Mary: So you are actually saying that at the moment the only way to be certain is through our own experience.

And through experimentation.

Mary: And if we're to be - collectively as a human race - certain, we need to experiment and really prove, and it is possible to prove these things.

Certainly and in fact most people who have done an investigation for their own self, to search for the truth for themselves, if they do it properly with people who understand what's going on - they end up believing in a spirit world as a result of their investigations. Most people who investigate it on earth eventually end up believing in it. The reason for that of course is that there is plenty of evidence that we can gather.

However the evidence is not generally allowed for lots of reasons: scientific reasons in terms of the scientific community being very resistive to such a concept; religious reasons, because the majority of the world's primary religions are against any concept of communicating with anybody who has died or who has passed; and there are also emotional reasons, and the emotional reasons are all to do around fear. Fear of - the average person if they knew that they were being watched constantly, with every single thing that they do in their life, every single action they take, when they are naked in bed, when they are having sex, when they are out doing things that they want to cover over from everybody else. And if the average person knew that every one of these things is noticed by somebody, somebody usually in the spirit world, the average person on the planet would generally freak out. They'd get pretty stressed out about that and so there's a huge amount of fear about not knowing - they want to not know these particular things, and of course that drives the ability to investigate.

When there's fear, religious opposition, scientific opposition - in fact the issue with spirits, is one of the few areas in our lives that there is opposition from almost every quarter, even though those quarters oppose each other generally. There's opposition from the spirit world, there's opposition from the earth in the areas of science, religion, philosophy and in terms of emotional opposition, you know from a fear based opposition. And if you look at all of the opposition to finding out the truth about it, it is no wonder that even given all the evidence that is available, we still don't have a certainty about it.

Mary: And yet so many of us are still fascinated. So much of the human race is fascinated aren't they?

Of course, anything that's denied to such a degree but is a truth, of course is going to create a lot of fascination with anybody on the earth and in the spirit world. So the reality is that there are large numbers of people on the earth who are totally fascinated about it even, and there is very good reason why, because it is a truth that we can scientifically investigate, but there is a huge amount of weight towards not investigating it at this point in time in human history.

6. How can we learn to perceive or see spirits ourselves?

Mary: How can we learn to perceive or see spirits ourselves?

Well perceiving spirits is all about developing emotionally and intellectually in certain directions. Obviously if we have huge amounts of fear - as I've indicated in other answers to these questions - if we have huge amounts of fear to the concept of a spirit world, it's highly unlikely we are going to develop any sensory apparatus we might have as a part of our being to determine whether such a world exists and determine how to perceive spirits.

So firstly it's going to depend very much on our open mindedness with regard to our belief systems. If we have very, very fixed and firm belief systems it's highly unlikely that we will want to develop any perception of spirits. So firstly we need to confront our belief systems. Secondly, if our belief systems are very fixed and firm or we have a lot of fear, we are going to resist any evidence that comes to us as to the existence of the spirit world and people in the spirit world, even though it's something that once we pass we will recognise automatically almost. And the problem with that of course is that we finish up ending up with this situation where we're so afraid, we're religiously afraid, we're scientifically afraid, we're afraid on so many levels to investigate the truth so of course we're not going to want to open up any potential perceptive powers that we may have to determine the communication ability between ourselves and spirits.

So our best course of action really, firstly is to look at all of the emotional reasons and belief systems that we have within us that oppose such a concept and look at releasing them from ourselves emotionally. We need to get rid of them if we're ever going to develop any perception powers that allow us to communicate with, see and hear and experience the experience of spirits in our day-to-day life. The more fear we have and the more resistance we have, the less we're going to investigate. That's the reality. So what I would suggest if a person wants to develop this perception is that they must first work through all of these belief systems and fears that cause them to wish that such a thing does not exist, is not true, that it doesn't exist.

Then of course, once we've worked our way through that we can devise a group of experiments that will help us develop these perception powers if they actually exist. So firstly we could imagine what kind of perceptive powers might exist and then we could develop experiments, just like a scientist would, to confront the truth about the issue - whether it exists or not. And some people are doing this currently on the planet, but very few. My suggestion is that it needs to be a much more main stream scientific endeavour than what it is currently.

Once we do that then we have released all of our fears, we've released all of our belief systems that tell us that it's not true and now we have the ability to determine whether it's true or not. Rather than just saying, no it's not true and not even investigating it. Then we need to take a form of investigation that is scientific in it's nature and allows us to develop different characteristics and also study the people who have already, or who already claim to have developed such characteristics and find out what is unique to them.

And in the end you usually find that these people have been talking to spirits ever since they were children and nobody shut them down, nobody turned it off, nobody imposed upon them any rules about it and as a result this communication ability and this sight ability continued from the time they were a child right the way through to the current time.

Alternatively we often see that somebody had a life experience of some kind that caused their perception to change that allowed them to develop certain characteristics within themselves that they wouldn't have previously developed and from that point in time, they could see and hear or communicate with spirits and therefore see the reality of it. These kind of people could be studied: what kind of emotional things happened during that time and what caused the particular thing to occur; and all of these things can be determined through scientific analysis.

However, the majority of people on the planet as I've previously stated are pretty resistive to the scientific analysis of the existence of a spirit world and the existence of life after death and as result of that many of us go around blind to the fact that we have a continuing life after we've passed from the earth.

7. How can spirits influence people on earth?

Mary: How can spirits influence people on earth?

Well because spirits themselves are people, they have the same ability to influence people on earth as any other person on earth has the ability to do. So, at the moment I have the ability to talk to you and I can influence you by what I say. A spirit can talk to you as well and influence you through what they say. You can hear them through your spirit body's ears and sometimes that even gets translated into a physical voice and you can hear them as a result. At the moment you can see me and what I do might influence you. It's the same with a spirit. You can see a spirit through your spirit body's eyes, they can see you and so of course, if they can see you and communicate with you they have the ability to influence you. They might be able to transmit images to you and give you thoughts and feelings and images that cause you to act in a different way than you would normally act.

So they have the ability to transmit information to you whether that be feelings or thoughts or images, pictures, videos and all of these things we have the ability to do right now on the physical and we think for some reason that once a person dies they no longer have that ability but the reality is their ability to do such a thing increases. So now that they have an increased ability to do such a thing, we can see that there's a potential for influence.

Mary: There's a couple of things you were saying there that I find interesting. You were saying first that for example, you, here on earth could influence me by saying certain things or ...

Doing certain things, threatening you with certain things: there are all sorts of methods of influence that I could bring to bear on a person, given if I have the motivation. You know, if I'm not a very loving person and I've got a negative motivation I could even be violent towards you and that might cause you to go into fear and do certain things. So there are all sorts of things a person on earth - that we can see - can do in order to influence another person on earth. The same applies to a spirit. They can do any of the same things: they can threaten you with violence; they can drop thoughts into your mind; they can have you listen to certain things; they can badger you; they can browbeat you; they can push you around; they can manipulate you in exactly the same way as anyone on earth would have been able to do.

Mary: And so you said that they can do it actually more. Why is that?

Mostly because they are unseen and because we're not aware of the fact that they are there: we're not aware they are there and as a result of our lack of awareness we are more open to doing what they suggest. If we could see them we would probably be checking them out a bit more and be more circumspect.

Also because a lot of people assume that anything they hear through their ears or whatever, eyes, that comes from God or comes from, Jesus, or comes from some spirit who they can trust. They can't see the spirit and they can't feel them. So the majority of times, these spirits are claiming to be someone that they are not and yet they are influencing people to do certain things on the earth that the people willingly do because they believe in something completely different. If they could see them they probably wouldn't do it, because a lot of times the spirits doing this are in a very dark dingy condition. They look terrible: they have a lot of emotions of rage and anger and other evil emotions really that we can't generally sense. We are often terrified of them and so we're manipulated into doing what they want often times.

Mary: If that's okay just to ask you some clarifier's about what you just said.

Sure.

Mary: So you give the example of say, you come up to me and say "Oh my gosh, if you don't run out the door the ceiling's going to drop on you right now.

So I'm influencing you.

Mary: Yes. You tell me a statement that ...

May or may not be true.

Mary: It may or may not be true but it incites fear inside of me and that's then, I, then I ...

Then you might act.

Mary: I might act. But if you're in front of me and I can see you I can go "who is this fellow telling me this thing?"

And on top of that you can actually see the sky or the roof falling down. Then of course you'd probably act.

Mary: Yeah for sure but I can discern more based on who's telling me and ...

Whether I'm sincere. You can test my sincerity through my facial expressions, the feelings you feel from me, how I'm acting: all of these ways of testing my sincerity.

Mary: And I also have the added bonus of knowing that somebody's actually telling me this, because you said.

And in our case we've known each other for six or seven years now. There's this level of trust now that I'm never going to lie to you, I'm never going to harm you and so if I'm telling you get out of the house now, there's a pretty good chance you need to get out of the house now.

Mary: I probably wouldn't ask you for many clarifier's because I already trust you.

Exactly.

Mary: But then you said there are two things that can happen when this interaction happens with someone that we can't see. The first you said is that I could just believe that, 'Oh, if I hear a voice inside of my head, God's speaking to me and I should do it or someone very wise and all knowing is telling me this and I should do the will of God or do the bidding of someone who's more important or special and you're saying that that's not very reliable always.

No, but it's also based on a false belief too: the false belief is that God communicates through voice and that's not true; God never communicates to anyone through a voice and God only communicates with the expression of love - God's Love and that's the only way in which God communicates and if we're not sensitive to love we're never going to hear God. The reality is too that whenever it's claimed that we hear a voice that's God's or some other high spirit, most of the time it's not. It's somebody who's being deceiving and that's a sad thing because we generally can't tell. We believe certain things and we can't tell.

Mary: So that's the point that you're making that we can't necessarily discern who's speaking to us.

No, for the majority of people on the planet they don't know. Like I've sat in mediumistic circles where a person says they are channelling a certain type of spirit and I know the spirit that's being channelled, because I see them or feel them, as very, very much darker than the person is claiming them to be and often - like in many cases, I've talked to spirits who claimed initially to be like these angels of light, and eventually I've found - through interaction with them, eventually they admitted that they are in the hells of the spirit world and just were using people to harm different things on earth and were using people to get certain emotional addictions met and they went from being this high spirit in the conversation down to being what they really were and this happens all the time and unfortunately, most of the mediums even who communicate with spirits, have no way of knowing who they are actually communicating with. I've spoken to mediums who spoke to spirits and then during the discussion they worked out that their guide who they believed was in the higher dimension was actually an earth bound spirit who had been with them all of their life. And of course, mediums who hear all of that become very distressed, naturally so because they've been lied to by these spirits all their life and have been deceived and of course that then causes them to be quite concerned and often quite distressed - naturally so. But it's because of the lack of perception; it's because of the lack of ability to scientifically test who they are actually communicating with.

Mary: And there was a second scenario that you gave that I would like to ask you to explain further and that was where you said that actually a spirit can influence me without me even knowing that somebody is saying something to me. So they could scream at me, 'If you don't run out the door the ceilings going to fall on your head', and I don't even necessarily know that a spirit has said that to me but I suddenly feel afraid and that I must run out the door and that's my own feeling, is that the ceiling's going to fall. How does that happen?

Well that happens because of a lot of openness that we may have. We firstly, from the time we were conceived were assigned a guardian by God actually. So we have a spirit permanently assigned to us who basically is there to protect our life, to help us live as long a life as possible and that particular spirit's role is to inform us of impending events that may affect our life and whether we can survive. And those particular spirits usually have a very good rapport with us; they have a very close connection with us all of our life because they've been with us from the time of conception onwards; and therefore they have the ability often to drop thoughts or feelings into us without us even being award that they are the feelings or thoughts of the spirit who is with us.

Now these guardians are not malevolent spirits. They are spirits who have been assigned to us who are in a certain condition of love that exceeds our own and they have our interests at heart. They love us enough to have our interests at heart and they don't have a perception or a conception of their own interest over us and as a result they are assigned to us because they have these particular characteristics. So that kind of a spirit you would often not even know as a person who is influencing you and they would be influencing you, and they'd be influencing you, they could even influence where you drive, what you do, when you step out on the road, you stop all of a sudden and a car comes past. All of those events are all influenced by this kind of a spirit.

Then you have groups of spirits who are malevolent, who are also able to influence you in a similar way and these kind of spirits are influencing us through different emotions that we have that are unhealed within ourselves and these particular emotions might be - we have a lot of fear for example and our fear leaves us open to a specific group of influences. So somebody could constantly threaten our fear, threaten our fear and threaten our fear by using threats against our fear that cause us to choose to make certain decisions that we wouldn't have normally made if we were conscious of that particular fear.

Mary: So how do they do that if I can't hear them?

Well the emotional openness that we have to a certain type of emotion causes an opening to all of our thought systems and all of our picture based systems, all of our imagination as well as all of our feelings. As a result of that a spirit can use any one of those techniques to influence us: they can give us thoughts, they can give us pictures and they can give us feelings that might motivate us to make different choices depending on our emotional openness to receive such things. So for example, just earlier I was being interviewed by somebody and I was being influenced in the interview because of my emotional openness to somebody else's will above my own. As soon as I closed that down, now I can't be influenced by their emotional openness or their will. I'm mainly influenced by my own will and spirits under those circumstances because I have an openness to the will of others above my own, I have an emotional openness still to being influenced along that direction and that's how spirits manipulate and can influence all of the different things that occur in our lives.

Mary: But you're saying that energetically I just have an openness if I'm open to a certain emotion I can receive it from another person or another spirit, even if I'm unaware of that influence.

Yeah, if I give people an example that they can probably relate to better. I don't know if you've noticed - but if you're with a person who's really afraid and they speak about all the things they are afraid of, you will either get to two points. You'll either go along with them eventually and become afraid of the same thing yourself or you'll get so annoyed with them that you don't want to spend any time with them. That's what you'll do. Now the reason why we do that, why do we have such a polarised feeling with them? Well it's because on one hand when we go along with their fears we also have certain fears along a specific vain that they are basically influencing through their discussion and as a result our fear is heightened as they discuss that particular issue.

This kind of thing happened during 9/11 with the attacks on America, in New York. Everyone was watching. There's billions of people around the world watching what was happening and as a result the heightened fear of each individual watching what was going on, watching what's going to happen next and so forth, allows then other people to say "what did you hear about this", and "did you hear about that?", and in those moments drop additional thoughts of fear inside of the person and so it's quite easy to manipulate the person after that point. So if you see what the American government has done since 9/11, it has used this fear to control the American people quite significantly by using that fear based influence, reminding everybody of that fear based influence and then even engaging laws, more laws, and in fact laws that the American people probably wouldn't have passed before 9/11, have been passed since. A restriction of their own freedoms has been passed since as a result of the heightened fear that exists in people about such events. This is a method of control. It's a method of being able to manipulate a person's will into doing something they wouldn't normally have done. Now if you think if you're invisible and have that ability, then of course there are heightened dangers of that occurring. If you've got the ability to suggest thoughts, the ability to suggest pictures, the ability to supply things to the imagination, the ability to actually even communicate orally, you know through the person's ears, then you have the ability to make a lot of suggestions that you might not have had if you didn't have those particular abilities. And if the person doing it is malevolent in their nature or wants to influence the will of another person then they'll take the opportunity to do it. There's no question, they'll take the opportunity to do it and this is what spirits do.

So I feel for the majority of people on earth they are completely unaware of how much they are being influenced by spirits all the time. When we see the spirits around most people, there's usually three or four or five or more spirits in fact around almost every single individual person on the earth, influencing every single choice and decision that they make. And it's only by clearing away the ways in which we are open to it that we will actually close down the influence. And if you think about it, it's exactly the same if it's the influence of a person we can see. It's only by clearing out the ways in which we absorb all of this influence, by clearing away the emotional reasons why we absorb it that we'll actually stop being influenced by a person on earth.

So we've got to stop seeing the spirits as some kind of evil malevolent creatures who are trying to harm us. The reality is they are the same as the people on earth, with similar motivations. You know on earth there are people with motivations that are evil right the way to people with motivations that are good and the same applies in the spirit world. There are spirits who's motivations are evil right the way to spirits who's motivations far exceed the goodness of any person on earth and what we've got to do - or learn how to do - is to be perceptive to what kind of motivations we are under.

Mary: Yes and it's fascinating to me the level of influence we can be under simply through denial of our own condition. I often think about my life up until a few years ago, perhaps even less, perhaps only a year ago and how much my actions and my words were influenced by the desires of others. And that was not something I was conscious of but emotionally I was sensitive to the desires of others and I had a deep fear of displeasing others and so it directed the course of my entire life and my actions. And that was, like I was in denial about that happening but that's what was happening. And it's fascinating to me that this whole thing can happen with spirits also simply through the same dynamic. Through my denial of fear within me which leaves me ...

Or shame or any other emotions, sadness even, you know. You can be manipulated through sadness; if you want to avoid your sadness and I want to get something.

Mary: Something from me.

Something from you - all I need to do is manipulate your sadness and in order to prevent it you'll do a certain thing.

Mary: I think people picking up each other in bars do that all the time don't they?

Of course.

Mary: Someone's sad and someone else wants some sexual company and they exploit the sadness in the other in order to ...

That's exactly what happens in the majority of cases.

Mary: Yes, yeah and so it's fascinating isn't it how our emotional sensitivity is at play all of the time, even if we're not consciously aware of what's going on.

Exactly. And this is the problem we have on the earth, is that because we are suppressing our emotions very strongly most of the time we don't realise how much influence we are under from other people who we can actually see but even more so from other people that we cannot see.

8. Why do spirits influence people on earth?

Mary: Why do spirits influence people on earth?

Well it's the same answer to any question of why do people on earth influence another person on earth. It's exactly the same motivations in the end. It depends upon the motivations of the individual as to why they choose to do it. If their motivations are malevolent or evil in nature, then they'll want to do it in order to get some malicious joy or satisfaction out of it, or to manipulate the person into doing something they want, or to getting an addiction met of some kind. If they are less malicious and just what we classify as a normal person on earth, then usually it's so they can get certain addictions fed and certain fears denied and all of those kind of things.

If they are a good person, a person who is wanting to do things in harmony with the will of others, then they'll be looking more at your personal welfare as to why they might manipulate you and they won't ever choose to manipulate you without you knowing. In other words they won't ever choose to have a conversation with you unless you know you're having a conversation with them, they would always honour the principles of free will for example. So their influence then becomes very benevolent. It's very lovely and often very positive in our lives. It's like having a nice counsellor with us who can give you ideas and concepts of what to do without telling you what to do and there are many spirits who want to do that with us as well.

So it all depends upon the motivations of the individual. Now for the majority of spirits who are earth bound - the twenty billion or so earth spirits that are earth bound, their motivations are exactly the same as the average persons motivations on earth; which means there is some goodness in it and mostly a lot of addictions and so most of the time their motivations are based around their personal addictions. They want something from you so they'll do something. They want you to do a certain thing so they manipulate you because they want it, not because they are thinking about you at all. And that is the most common form of manipulation that occurs in the spirit world.

Then there is the malevolent manipulation. Their purpose is to destroy your life. There are people in the spirit world who, after they have passed are so angry and so resentful and so nasty and in a rage, and all they want to do is to destroy as many people as possible. They are unwilling to feel their rage and they are unwilling to feel their other emotions underneath their rage - their sadness and other deep emotions. They are unwilling to take personal responsibility for what's happened and so what they want to do is project it outwards and damage other people's lives. And so they are malevolent spirits who are trying to damage our lives in order to get some malicious satisfaction.

Then our beautiful, benevolent spirit brothers and sisters are there because they want to help our lives; they want to protect us from harm; they want to protect us from the harm of the malevolent spirits and the spirits who are in addictions with us and they would like to help us have a happy life on earth and in the spirit world. And so their motivations are completely different; very pure, lovely motivations focused on helping our future life, both on earth and in the spirit world, helping us to make wise decisions that will benefit us through our time on earth and also in the spirit world and so their motivations are just very pure and loving and often they have a fairly good effect on our life as a result.

So it really gets down to the underlying motivations of the personal personality of the individual who is attempting to motivate us or push us in a certain direction as to how much we get influenced. And it really is no different for a person on earth listening to other people on earth than it is for a person on earth listening to spirits in the spirit world. On earth we have very many very negative influences upon us - media and other types of influence; even our friends, many of our friends are influencing us to go along with their belief systems.

You can see that frequently when it comes to - when a woman's going through a divorce, she attracts a whole heap of other woman who are angry with men all saying, 'yeah men are bastards, men are this, men are that.' And when a man's going through a divorce, he goes down the pub to drown his sorrows and he's got all the men surrounding him saying, 'yeah women are this and women are that' and this is all part of the standard types of attractions which are all addictive in nature. What they do, is they help us to avoid a whole heap of emotions. So the better thing for a person going through a divorce would be to stay home and have a good cry about it - than go out to the pub or down to the coffee shop with the girls or down to the pub with the guys. Because in the end if they go anywhere other than just feel about it, they are going to be influenced by other people's perceptions through their emotional condition.

Mary: In a previous question you mentioned that there's spirits that live on the earth even after they pass that are disconnected from their physical body and then there's many dimensions that spirits live in according to their condition in love. Does it follow then that more spirits who are in a lower condition and wishing to avoid their home in the spirit world influence the earth, or is there an even mix of spirits?

Well no, the reality is the positive influence upon the earth is greater than the negative influence upon the earth: this has been happening now for quite a few thousand years and this is why we have a slow improvement on the earth; it's a very slow improvement but it is an improvement on the earth; and the main reason why we have an improvement on the earth is because we are having an improvement in the type of influence we are receiving from the spirit world.

And so these more positive spirits, the more spirits who get into a positive condition, have a stronger desire to influence people on earth in a positive direction, and as a result, they are influencing the whole earth in a positive direction. Of course there is the weight or the baggage of these negative influences, the malevolent spirits and so forth, but the power of the positive spirits is much greater than the power of the negative spirits and so slowly humankind on the earth is slowly improving as a result of this positive influence, even though there is quite a lot of negative influence occurring.

And so the majority of the influences on earth that we feel, even though we're influenced by twenty or so billion negative spirits who are in addictions on earth, we are also influenced by millions of positive spirits who have much greater power to influence us than the negative spirits and for that reason we are slowly progressing on this planet.

If the balance was around the other direction our planet would be actually regressing, and there was a time in human history where we went through regression. A devolution if you like where the influences from the spirit world were so negative that it caused a cycle of influence to be very negative on the planet and in a very rapid period of time every single person on the planet finished up getting into a terrible condition, so bad that the majority of people didn't live longer than twenty years.

And then after some of these spirits got into a higher condition, they started to influence these people on earth in a positive direction and thus began the evolution of man, if you like, where they were in this terrible state, the body of men were very, very small - physical bodies very small - in comparison to us today and you can see that as we evolve we are getting taller and larger and bigger bodies as we go. And this is all part and parcel of the evolution again of man, if you can call it that.

All it really is, is that we've been influenced in a negative condition down to a certain point where we couldn't go beyond and then we started getting influenced in a positive direction, and now on earth there is a large amount of positive influence occurring.

This is why we see a lot of shifts, governmentally, socially, towards more equality and so forth. It's shifts that didn't occur over many of thousands of years in the past.

9. Why has God allowed spirits to influence people on earth?

Mary: Why has God allowed spirits to influence people on earth?

I feel this is one of the most interesting questions. From God's perspective there is no difference between a person who lives on earth and a person who lives in the spirit world: they are still a person. As a result, God created this ability for us to communicate; God wants us to know that we still exist even after our physical body dies. So God wanted us to do this and so as a part of God's creation, the laws that govern God's universe, God created laws that govern rapport between people here on earth and in the spirit world and these laws govern how people communicate; how we can talk to each other and listen to each other and actually experience each other.

And God created these laws for very good reason. God wanted us to share with all of that knowledge that's gathered in the spirit world and to learn all of that knowledge before we pass to the spirit world from the earth. And as a result, God's created these laws in order to educate us, to give us a potential of education. So people who have come before us can educate us about what's going to happen - when we go, when we leave the earth here and go into the spirit world - if they have a means to communicate.

But of course, that means that God is impartial. God does everything with equality. As a result, if God's going to open it for a good spirit, there also has to be an opening of communication for a bad spirit. That would make sense. Obviously the law would govern the communication ability and it would govern the communication ability for all people, whether they were malevolent or benevolent or anything in between. So God created these sets of laws that govern communication between us and also governs our seeing and our hearing and all sorts of things with regard to people that have passed from earth into the spirit world and these laws are just standard laws that we can discover.

They are like any other scientific law, like the Law of Aerodynamics, like the Law of Gravity: they are laws that govern the communications between people that are in different dimensions and ourselves and these laws were created specifically by God to give us this ability to grow and to listen to other people who have grown. And so it's a very loving provision actually that God has given us these things.

Unfortunately, like all the Laws that God has given us, they all also have a penalty for their misuse and for example, we know the Law of Gravity has a lot of beneficial effects but it has a penalty when we misuse it and that penalty is we could even die if we misuse it. The same goes with the Law of Aerodynamics. If we engage the law, you know it has great benefits to human kind but if we misuse it, it can cause a lot of damage to humankind, including dropping bombs on people and murdering people and all sorts of things can be incurred through the engagement of that law.

The same applies with the Law of Communication and rapport between different dimensions. God's given us this law that we can use to communicate between the earth and other places in other dimensional existences but, unfortunately if we misuse it and use it out of harmony with Love, then of course there are going to be consequences upon us as a result of our using it out of harmony with Love; and what we're seeing with regard to spirit influence is the results of those consequences of using the Law of Rapport, the Law of Communication between different dimensions, out of harmony with love; and there are many, many, many spirits who wish to use this law out of harmony with Love, just as there are many people on earth who wish to use the law out of harmony with Love; and as a result of their using the law out of harmony with Love, we have the negative consequences that come from any usage that's out of harmony with Love of any Law and we are always going to experience the pain and suffering of that.

So it's interesting on earth at the moment - the pain and suffering is quite intense. There are a lot of mental illnesses for example that are the direct result from the direct use of these laws out of harmony with Love - both for the patient, where they have engaged something that's out of harmony with Love and the spirit who's involved. There are many things that occur on the planet as a result of this law being used out of harmony with Love. There are many religious teachings. There are many scientific ideas and principles and concepts that are being perpetrated on the planet today that are all coming from the spirit world, all from communications that have been out of harmony with Love. But God allows them because God has a Law involved that invokes all such things and also creates a consequence for all such things.

So if a person uses the law out of harmony with Love, there is an immediate consequence on their soul that they will either feel right now, or - if they are sensitive to it, they'll feel it right now - or if they are not sensitive to it they will definitely feel it at some point in their future when they do become more sensitive to it. And the reality is there are many spirits in the spirit world who are very sensitive to it and continue to use the law out of harmony with Love while at the same time feeling an incredible amount of pain, increasingly, as they continue to use the law out of harmony with Love. So God has all these checks and balances in the law but there is this beautiful law that allows for the communication and it's a gift as well as a negative consequence if we choose to use the gift out of harmony with Love.

Mary: So you're saying really God allows it because it's a loving provision to give us information.

Of course, any good parent would want to give information from any person wouldn't they.

Mary: Yes. Information about what happens when we pass and even the possibility of maintaining relationships after we lose our physical body.

Totally, if you think of most of the intense grief that happens on this planet, a lot of it comes from the passing of our loved ones. If we could still communicate with them, still see them, still physically interact with them, and then we would not be in any way traumatised by the death of a loved one. God gave this law so that we wouldn't have to be traumatised by the death of a loved one. Unfortunately, because we've misused the law we often have many negative consequences such as mental illnesses and other types of problems: physical disease and all sorts of problems that come about through misuse of the law.

Mary: And so it's actually the breaking of the law, or the use of the law with a lack of love in our heart that causes anything negative and if we engaged it positively there would only be beautiful benefits.

Exactly. It's like all of God's Laws; they have a positive consequence if we engage them in a loving manner. They have a negative consequence if we engage them in an unloving manner. The reality is there are many people on the planet today who engage the Law of Communication or Rapport with spirits in a positive direction and so they receive many rewards as a result of that engagement. Then there are many people, the majority in fact of people who engage the law in a very negative manner out of harmony with Love and so they receive the consequence of the engagement in a negative direction.

This is a perfect feedback system that God has given us to show us when we are engaging it in the wrong direction. So many people who experience illnesses are the things that are the result of psychotic episodes and behaviours, are often influenced by spirits and they themselves are engaging the law in a negative direction and they need to become aware of that. And if we talk about how that happens and we investigate how that happens and we provide, true and also scientific examples, that have been validated through scientific experiments, how that happens, then of course the majority of people would understand completely what's going on and therefore would not have as much fear about it and would not treat it as something that's unknown.

10. Can spirits be dangerous?

Mary: Can spirits be dangerous?

Well they can be dangerous as much as any person can be dangerous. Again we need to see spirits as just people whom we cannot see but who are still alive and have a body. They have a soul, they therefore have motivations and obviously emotions and just as any other person on earth would have, and they have the ability to use those in particular - their will, their emotions and desires and their motivations, in a manner that's quite against our own survival even. So yes they can be very dangerous. They can be just as dangerous as a person on earth can be. And in some cases potentially more dangerous given the fact that we can't see their influence sometimes. So they can even be potentially more dangerous sometimes than a person on earth could be. Because a person on earth, normally when we see them as a dangerous person, the majority of people on earth would have a tendency to avoid them, whereas it's sometimes difficult to avoid a spirit who has the same malevolent desires and intentions. So for that reason a spirit can often be even more dangerous than a dangerous person on earth.

Mary: So if I think about a dangerous person on earth, I think well a dangerous person on earth could kill me. Can a spirit kill me?

Certainly.

Mary: How can a spirit kill me?

There are a number of ways a spirit can kill you. Firstly they can influence you to take decisions which would destroy your own life. Secondly, they can have certain attachments to your physical body through addictive things that you have in relationship to the spirit that causes the degradation of certain organs in your body that finish up taking your life, and in fact there are many diseases associated with spirit influence, physical diseases that occur in that manner. So they could kill you through a disease for example.

They could kill you through an action that you take; they can also kill you by dropping thoughts into your mind to harm yourself. And there are many spirits who do this with people who potentially finish up suiciding and who are potentials to suicide. Because of certain emotions that we are trying to deny within ourselves that we are trying to run away from, the spirits can manipulate those particular thoughts in that direction and finish up causing us to kill ourselves even. So there are many so called suicides that are actually murders that have been instigated usually through the action of different spirits.

So there are also spirits who can take action to influence people in power to harm groups of people using violent methods. Spirits can also motivate people who are rapists or people who have other types of sexual anger in order to take out their sexual anger on another person. Paedophilia is often, and most often, generated and governed by spirits in terms of the interference of a person through their own emotional injuries relating to sexuality, then spirits motivate them to do things that are not a part of what society would consider loving behaviour or normal behaviour and then people take those particular actions. There are mass murderers that have been totally influenced by spirits who have murdered other people. There have been people who are leaders of governments such as Hitler and Stalin who have been influenced by spirits to murder large numbers of people. And so yes these spirits are very dangerous, or can be very dangerous. I don't know if I would say that they are any more dangerous than the average person on earth though, because although we can't see them, in the end, we can only be motivated by our own unhealed emotional injuries to act on their behalf or to do things towards ourselves or others that would harm us.

So the reality is that if we work our way through the way in which these spirits can manipulate or control us then the spirits have no level of control over us and in fact are only able to control us far less than the average person on earth could control us. So in other words, I suppose another way of saying that is, if we have worked through all of our emotional injuries that cause spirit interference and spirit influence upon our lives, then we're walking around with no influence from any person in the spirit world upon us. It doesn't matter than we can't see them; they cannot influence us at all. Of course a person on earth could still influence us under those circumstances because we are in a physical body. And therefore they could take a violent action towards us or something like that which might harm us but a spirit couldn't do so.

Mary: Right, so a spirit, so this is the difference. If I'm walking down a dark alley and you have very dark intentions.

And I either want to murder you or rape you.

Mary: Yep. You can murder me or rape me because we're in the same alley.

And if I'm strong enough, physically strong enough or I have a method of physically manipulating your fear. So I have a gun or a knife or some other weapon and I have a method of manipulating your fear, then there's a high likelihood that I'll get away with the action in the instance.

Mary: But you just said if I have healed emotionally, and I'm walking down the same dark alley and there are no people around but there could be spirits who wish to do me harm. If I've healed myself emotionally, which is perhaps the subject of another set of questions, then I'm safe from those spirits.

Yes completely safe. They would have no ability to harm you at all in that circumstance. The only way that they could harm you is by influencing another, but the way God's created your soul through its emotional injuries is that any person who tries to influence another towards you has to also be sensitive to the same emotional injury. So it's highly unlikely that you would have any damage occur to you either from a person in the spirit world or on earth walking down a dark alley once all of your emotional injuries are healed.

A person under those circumstances would have to take direct action to harm you through their own motivation and through no other motivation.

Mary: Which person is this?

The person who chooses to harm you would have to take. See unfortunately on earth at the moment much harm occurs because it's spirit influenced harm. Once we have healed this spirit influence, the openness to the spirit influence, the only harm that can actually occur on the earth is the harm where the person uses their own individual will to harm another. And that would be uninfluenced. So therefore it would be highly unlikely to be as violent or as negative as it would be when it's influenced.

Mary: So if we go back to the dark alley and I'm me, a woman, walking down a dark alley with a lot of fear for example, of sexual violence.

Yes it's highly likely under those circumstances you'll attract a whole heap of spirits at least while you're walking down the dark alley. Now they will start being threatening towards you and if they can find a man who's willing to be the same as they are, it's highly likely you would be attacked under those circumstances.

Mary: Well and this was my question. So if I'm walking down the alley with some sexual fear. I'm unhealed emotionally, and you are a man in this example, walking down the alley coming towards me who has some feelings of rage towards women, that you haven't healed, then you would be open to the influence.

And a tendency, a possible tendency towards violence. So I'd have to have a possible tendency towards violence. I'd have to have a tendency towards violence.

Mary: A tendency towards violence. Then those spirits could influence you to harm me.

Certainly. It could be just an opportunistic event taken on the spur of the moment by my being influenced by spirits who are with me, who have the same opportunistic emotions that cause you physical harm.

Mary: And then if you were to change that scenario where there was no spirits influencing you, are you saying that you would have to have healed all your anger with women and propensity for violence for spirits to not influence you in that scenario.

Yes.

Mary: Yeah, and in which case you wouldn't take an action to harm me would you?

Exactly, I wouldn't. No matter how much influence was brought to bear. In addition, if you had healed your fear of sexual violence and sexual rage, then you could walk down that same alley even though I have that particular tendency and the spirits who normally would be able to influence me wouldn't be able to influence me in your company. So the only decision I can take would be my own. So you can see under those circumstances there would be a large reduction in the amount of violence that occurs on the earth if we had healed these particular injuries.

Mary: And it also shows that if I heal myself emotionally, the potential danger from spirits, even if other people haven't healed themselves, is vastly reduced.

Vastly reduced, because now, you've protected yourself and protected the other person in fact. Any person who come into contact with you is protected when they are with you to a degree and it's only their own emotional injuries which can influence them after that point. So they can only make a decision on their own. Not with, or it can be with a group of people on the earth obviously. So if it was a gang of men coming along, they could make the decision as a gang, because they are together and they are in the physical. But if it's a gang of spirits with a man, then that gang of spirits cannot influence the man if you were in a state where you were healed emotionally. It's only the man who can make the choice and decision.

Mary: And is that part of God's Laws operating in a loving way? If I take the initiative to heal myself emotionally of these damages or these fears, then God's provision is, then my interaction is then just with the soul of that person in front of me physically and there is literally a barrier or a protection from other spirit influence on me in that way.

Correct. Correct. So a person who becomes at-one with God can only pass now, through the direct decisions made by people who are on the earth with the person, that are out of harmony with love. They cannot pass through spirit influence because the spirits will not be influencing it. So for example, in my death in the first century: the reality is that all the people who made the choice to kill me in the first century, made the choice through their own decision and it wasn't motivated by dark spirits. That's the interesting thing. So this included Judas, the person who betrayed me at the time. It included the San Hedron, who condemned me. All of those people have had to pay the penalty of their own personal decisions that have been uninfluenced by others when they killed me, whereas that's very unusual on earth. Most times people are influenced by other spirits to do particular things and of course the spirits bear part of the penalty of making the choice and decision. In the case of a person who becomes at-one with God, only the person who is making the choice and decision can make the choice and decision because your soul protects them from being influenced by any other influence other than their own will.

Mary: Very interesting.

So it's a very interesting, this of course means that you reduce the amount of difficulties towards yourself, once you become at-one with God, or even approach that condition, in terms of what harm can be brought to bear towards you. But you also protect the people around you from being influenced by negative spirits when they are with you - only when they are with you though.

So what I find happens now with my life is that quite often I get negative attacks from people who are not with me, but as soon as they are with me, all of the negativity disappears for the time they are with me. Of course when they go away from me then the negativity reappears because I am no longer providing that protection to the person who's being influenced. And this happens all the time in our life as you know. Where, when people are with me, we have sensible conversations without any anger and rage and without any problems and as soon as they leave me then we start having difficulties with that same person; in many cases where they will be violent or abusive or send us abusive emails, and yet when they are with us they act completely differently and that's because of this same principle or law that's in operation.

11. What is spirit influence, attachment, over-cloaking & possession?

Mary: What's the difference between spirit attachment, spirit influence, spirit over-cloaking and spirit possession? What happens to the person and their body in each of those different states?

Right, so that's a pretty big question.

Mary: It is.

We might need to break this question up I think in the future, but what I'll give is just a brief summary of some of those things. The main difference in the question is the difference in degree. So we can say that the average person on earth is basically spirit influenced. Every single person on earth is basically spirit influenced until they become at-one with God and even then they could still be spirit influenced in a positive direction because they'd be open to receiving influence that's from loving spirits. So they would still be spirit influenced it just wouldn't be motivated in an unloving direction.

So the reality is, all of us, whether we're at-one with God or not, are going to be spirit influenced, it's just how we're influenced is dependent upon what kind of condition we are in and what we're open to in terms of how the influence is brought to bear. So that's this aspect of spirit influence.

Then we look at spirit attachment. Now spirit attachment is when a person, a spirit who has passed over into the spirit world, attaches themself, through the spirit body of an individual living on earth, usually it's to the physical body of a person living on earth. Now this kind of attachment often occurs in the womb. So they begin in the womb where the mother is not providing - because of the mother's emotional injuries - she's not providing protection to the child that's in the womb and as a result a spirit, usually and quite frequently it can be a spirit who believes in reincarnation, attempts to attach itself to the body of the child that's already been conceived and who already has another soul and spirit body attached to it. And they attach to the physical body, usually in a specific location, which is driven by the mother's addictions, and they then are attached to the person for the rest of their life generally. And usually the spirit who is attached to the person causes the physical death of the other person they are attached to, usually through some kind of disease of some kind and often the disease is a child onset disease. In other words it's a disease that is triggered at the beginning or early childhood and therefore the child doesn't survive even into adolescence in many cases. If it's a less severe attachment driven by a less severe addiction then the child may live even into old age with this attachment and in some cases believe themselves to be the person who's attached to them until they die - you see that in many cases.

With regard to a spirit obsession or possession, well that's a spirit obsession; to me in my mind is a person who is obsessed with having a spirit with them. And there are many, many people on the planet who love having spirits with them because of the power and other types of emotions that these spirits bring to them. I've met many men who are obsessed, they have a spirit with them who is obsessed with sex and they are completely obsessed with the spirit because this spirit sets up sexual liaisons for them and organises their entire sexual life in fact. I've seen many people who have those kind of emotions that causes this obsession to occur.

Possession is a bit different than obsession in the sense that possession is more about the spirit possessing the person and usually a spirit possessing a person is driven by the fear that exists in the person on earth that allows the possession from the spirit world to occur or a belief system in the person on earth that allows the possession to occur and so possession is quite a common occurrence but is often quite severe so therefore it's often well known in comparison to these other forms of influence.

And then there's spirit malevolent influence and benevolent influence. So if we look at the malevolent influence, that's the person dropping thoughts and ideas and concepts and pictures and everything into your mind, feelings into you that cause you to make decisions that are harming your personal life. And then if there's a benevolent influence, it's a spirit who's wanting to drop different thoughts and ideas and concepts and beliefs into your mind that are going to help you develop in your life. So if you examine all the different types of influence, it's exactly the same as the types of influence we could have while we are on earth exactly the same kind of influence.

Mary: So if we could go through them then because you also missed out one so. There's spirit influence.

Which one did we miss out?

Mary: Over-cloaking.

Oh, over-cloaking, yeah.

Mary: So let's go through them in order.

Sure, sure. Let's do that.

Mary: So influence you just mentioned and that's where someone is either malevolent or benevolent.

Or even just what I would classify to be addictively connected to us. It's often the average type of friendship on earth or the average type of - where we get something from the person, we don't always like them, we don't always think they are a good person or make good decisions but we get along with them because they meet certain of our own addictions and we meet their addictions. And that's the most frequent form of spirit influence.

Mary: Yes so it could be my friend who says, 'yeah let's go shopping, yep, let's go shopping, let's go shopping.' Because both of us get this wonderful feeling when we've gone shopping.

And both are addicted to the chemicals that occur in the brain once you get the shopping.

Mary: The bargain.

The bargain or whatever it is that you're addicted to emotionally.

Mary: Or it could be a friend who says really constructive things to me all of the time like, 'hey, you should take care of yourself.' and 'are you looking out for yourself?'

You're not looking after yourself or you're not caring for yourself or you're not doing what you want to do or something. There's a nice person or a nice friend who's telling you some truths about yourself that you're easily influenced by other people into a negative direction and they are trying to have a positive influence upon your life. Which is fantastic.

Mary: Yep so that's addictive, benevolent and then we can have malevolent. Which is someone who just enjoys seeing me suffer for example.

Exactly. And ironically on the planet there are many people who are closely connected to us generally, physically who enjoy seeing us suffer. You know there are many people in families who enjoy seeing other family members suffer.

Mary: Because they feel jealous or competitive.

Because they feel jealous or competitive or some other reason, so a lot of these basic emotions that you see in families are not loving emotions at all. They are emotions driven by malevolence, by a desire to make somebody else hurt and it's very, very common on the planet to see these emotions inside of families and inside of societies.

Mary: Right, so that's the examples of spirit influence.

Just generally.

Mary: Just generally. That's how spirits often are interacting with us is what you're saying. Okay spirit attachment. That's when you mentioned a spirit could attach to me at conception.

It can happen any time during your life.

Mary: Any time during my life, yep.

Any time during your life for any reason but oftentimes occurs during the gestationary period of the, of, after a person's been conceived, in between then and being born. In that time period often spirit attachments occur depending upon the emotions of the parents because it's the parent's emotions that determine whether the spirit attachment can occur during that particular period of time.

Mary: And what is the effect of that attachment. They are attached to my physical body, not my spirit body.

Yes, they can actually physically harm your development in the womb; they can harm the development of sexual organs in the womb, if it's an opposite sexed spirit connected to the person; they can harm the emotional development once they've been born; they can harm the physical development as they're growing; they can cause diseases that are the results of the attachments in the specific location; they can eventually cause a person's death. I've seen many children with leukaemia as a result of spirit attachments, which have been caused by the parent's emotions.

Mary: All right so that's spirit influence, spirit attachment. Spirit over-cloaking?

Maybe if we just go back to spirit attachment for second. There's probably more that we need to say about it. It does and can usually - occur also when we have certain emotional things happen in our life that we attempt to deny. So I've seen it happen very frequently with people who have lived a certain part of their life up until their early twenties or late teens and they are into drugs or some other kinds of activities. They have wanted to get away from their life but they haven't learned how to take responsibility for their emotions or worked their way through their emotions and as a result what happens is they want to constantly get away from their life and sometimes they want to get away from their life so much that they desperately want a person to attach to them and basically control the rest of their life. And many times under those circumstances a spirit will attach and it's like the person has a change in personality right in that moment: their personality changes; their desires change; they do things they wouldn't normally do, they don't do things they would normally do and that's a pretty strong indication that now a spirit has attached to them and has over cloaked them completely.

And when I say over-cloaked, they now have total control not only over the individual's thinking process and the decisions that they are making but actually over their physical body and what they choose to do in their physical body, the actions they choose to take in their physical body. We often see this kind of over-cloaking occurring with a person who's manically depressed, in their high states. When in a low state, they are not over-cloaked but when they get into a high state they are now over cloaked. They are physically stronger generally too. They go from having the strength of one person to having the strength of ten people as a result of the spirit's energy motivating the physical body. And these are common occurrences, very common concurrences and a very common occurrence in mental illness as well - which is an interview we'll be doing later. So the entire process of over-cloaking is an attachment that occurs that is now strengthened to such a position that the person now is willing to allow the spirit to totally control all of the aspects of their life and in fact many times the person themselves is no longer aware or even conscious of what they are doing in fact.

Mary: And you were saying that that can happen at stressful periods in our life.

If we are avoiding the emotion.

Mary: Yes. So when we want to deny or avoid the stressful period. And how long does it last. You mentioned earlier that it could last till death.

I know people that it's lasted until death. Yep.

Mary: But can it last for very short periods as well. Often you hear about people committing a murder and they can't remember just ten minutes. And that could be the result of over-cloaking?

Yes, But again the person on earth had to be involved in the process. They had to make some choices and decisions. They have to have some supportive emotional conditions that allow the connection to occur. Otherwise it could not occur under any circumstances. It can only occur when a person on earth has certain sympathetic emotions with the person who's over-cloaking them. So, yes a person can murder in that place, they can rape in that place, they can become violent in that place and then all of a sudden switch out of it and this is also the cause of a lot of people who have the dis-associative identity type of things where they flick in and out of different multiple personalities, or seemingly do so. This is all a part of this problem.

Mary: Of over-cloaking basically.

Of over-cloaking under certain specific conditions.

Mary: Okay, the final category that you spoke of earlier was spirit possession. How does this differ from over-cloaking or is this very similar?

Well in the over-cloaking and in the obsession side of things, with obsession and over-cloaking, it's more that the person on earth is driving the behaviour of the spirits to a degree. In other words, the person on earth has a co-dependency relationship, type of relationship with the spirits. The person on earth wants the connection.

Mary: Because they are getting something from it.

Because they are getting something from it and the person on earth wants to be controlled. The person on earth wants to be a different person. They want to be obsessed. They want to have the results of what the spirit who is obsessing them can give them.

Mary: So if I'm a teenager who's just moved to a new school and I'm feeling really stressed out and I don't want to feel it. Socially frightened. If I attract a spirit who wants to have an experience on earth through me who's very boisterous and outgoing.

And you like the idea of that.

Mary: And emotionally I feel like, oh that's a relief. Someone else is going to do this hard work for me then I'm getting something out of it and the spirit is getting something out of it. So that's like an obsession or over-cloaking?

Well that's obsession or attachment that can turn into over-cloaking.

Mary: If they stay for a long time.

If they stay or if I allow the complete possession of my physical body you can now say they are completely over-cloaked.

Mary: Sure. And how does that differ then from possession.

Possession is still an over-cloaking. Usually complete in many cases, but it's where the over cloaking occurs because of the fear of the individual on earth rather than their desire. Or more specifically, we could say it's the avoidance of the person's fear. So the person on earth is terrified of the spirit and as a result the person on earth allows the spirit to do what the spirit wants because they are terrified of what else the spirit will do to them if they don't allow it. So that is possession. That is the desire to accede to the rage and blackmail and bribery of a spirit because you're just petrified of what will occur if you don't do it.

Mary: So again I'm thinking, I'm trying to think of an example. If I'm a woman who's terrified of other women, I feel that a woman's hatred towards me is just, I'm terrified of what they'll do with that. How they'll make me feel or what actions they might even take.

Or even what violent actions they might potentially perform.

Mary: Yep. So and I'm afraid of them and a spirit who's very ...

And you'd like to stay away from them. You'd like to stay away from any type of that person.

Mary: Yes, absolutely. So, but if a spirit like that comes to me and says, 'you should be terribly nasty to your husband', is this working?

Yes, keep going.

Mary: Because he's just a bastard, you should cut him off. I might not have those feelings towards my husband or, but because I'm terrified of what this woman will do to me if I do something other than what she wants, I might still take the action.

Yes.

Mary: Is that an example of possession?

That's an example of allowing a possession. Yep. And during that particular time you actually might not even be conscious of what you're doing. There are people who often say, that oh I just had a big argument with my husband and I've got no idea what I said. And the reason why they've got no idea what they said is because the spirit had possessed them during that period of time. You see people who are drunk often in this state. Actually drunkenness often gets to the point where the person is no longer conscious of themselves anymore and in fact does not even remember what they did. That's a spirit from that point in time. That's a complete possession that's allowed through the process of drunkenness. So the person gets so drunk that they no longer have control over their physical body and the spirit instead takes control of their physical body and does things. And there are people who have lived two or three days like that. Who are controlled by, can't remember two or three days because they got so drunk but people come back and said, 'oh you went here and you slept with that person and you drove here and you went there and you went to work actually' and they can't remember any of it and the reason why is during that period of time they were possessed by the other spirit who was motivating all of the behaviour.

Mary: And so really no matter what we call it. Basically there's like, as you said, it's about degrees of influence and how much our emotional condition is allowing control of people who are in the spirit world over us.

Exactly, so with all of these things, it's all about degrees. Obviously every single person who's ever existed and who will ever exist will be influenced by spirits. Just like every single person who's ever lived and who will ever live has and will be influenced by a person they can see. The question is whether we are going to be influenced in a positive direction or influenced in a negative direction or influenced through our addictions and therefore influenced through our behaviour by supporting our addictions which obviously support our denial of fears and other emotions. So the question really becomes then, what kind of level of influence are we going to allow. And all of what we've just described is the varying levels of influence that people allow. So most people on the planet allow influence within social norms. That's the reality.

We're too afraid to allow influence outside of the social norm so we only allow influence inside of the social norm. Whether the influence comes from a person we can see or a person we can't see is immaterial. We're just allowing the influence within the norm. When the influence goes outside of the norm, that's when the majority of people on the planet freak out. So for example, it's normal for most people when they get too drunk to not remember what they were doing, that's normal, even though it's a possession. It's still normal so we allow it. We don't consider it's a major problem. We don't see it as a problem but when a person is possessed without taking alcohol, we see that as a big problem. We'll even medicate such a person and put them in some kind of psychiatric institution because we see that as outside of the social norm. The reality is a person who is swearing their head off and carrying on because they are angry is influenced by spirits, negatively in fact. But we see that as normal, particularly if it's a man.

Mary: Because we accept men's anger more than we do women's.

We accept men's anger more than we do women's, generally. So we accept that as normal. So if he's there swearing and carrying on and having a big spit and doing some bit crazy things at the time, we sort of go, oh that's normal. When the same person is a child of six years old having a tick called turrets syndrome, we see that as abnormal. It's the same kind of influence and often for a similar reason but we see that as abnormal and we give it a syndrome, a name and do many things to try to correct it. And this is the issue we face when these things are within social norms. When these influences from spirits are within social norms we allow them, when they are outside of social norms then we of course condemn them. Now I'm not suggesting that we need to do something different, what I'm suggesting is, often what we believe is inside of social norms is still out of harmony with love. And often what we believe is outside of social norms is in harmony with love.

Mary: Although not always.

Although not always. So for example, a person just crying in the middle of the street, we often see as outside of the social norm but they are just crying in the street. They are not harming anybody, they're not damaging anybody and it's highly unlikely in that place - if they are connected with their emotions that they are not being influenced by a spirit but most of us will get concerned or even fearful for them in that space.

Mary: So you said that it's highly unlikely that they're not being influenced by a spirit. You mean it's highly unlikely that they are being influenced by a spirit in that state?

It's highly unlikely they are being influenced by a spirit. They are not being influenced by a spirit if they are owning their emotions. So if I said the wrong thing there sorry. But they are not being influenced in that state, particularly if they are fully connected with their emotion. They could be being influenced by a nice spirit actually just to have a cry. But we see that as outside the social norm and therefore we see that, and if it continued for any period of time other than five minutes, we generally see that, oh the person needs some help now and if it continues for two hours, now we think they need hospitalisation. Which is strange considered it's just grief that they are feeling and it's unfortunate too that some things are considered to be outside of social norms that have no harm and yet some things that have a terrible amount of harm are considered to be inside of social norms. So what I'm suggesting is in the future what we are going to have to do if we are going to deal with this problem of influence in terms of both negatively and positively on the planet.

What we are going to need to do is to determine whether the influence is in harmony with Love. Not whether it's outside of a social norm or inside of a social norm. That shouldn't be our criteria. Our criteria should be is it loving for this particular thing to go on. So, if a person has some kind of borderline personality disorder and they are yelling and screaming at people all the time and they are carrying on all the time and being hard to manage all the time and everyone around them is sick and tired of them. Well that's outside not only of social norm, that's outside of love. Something has to be done. If a person is just having a good cry in their room because they've just experienced a death of a loved one and they need to have a good cry for three months, let them have their cry. Don't try to medicate them and shut them down. That's in harmony with Love. Help them believe the truth that the person is still alive. They're probably still trying to communicate with them actually. Help them understand the truth. That's in harmony with Love.

So what we need to do with all of these discussions and questions that we ask in the future on the subject of spirits and spirit influence, is we need to analyse everything from the position of love. If the position of love is that what is inside a social norm isn't very loving, then I suggest what we need to do is change our social norms into being something that's more loving. So if at the moment it's okay for a person to get drunk for three days and not remember anything that they did, to me that's not very loving, either to the person or about the things they did in their state. Something has to be done about that. Now me saying that is outside of social norms. Whereas a person who's crying for three days because they just experienced the grief associated with some event, I don't feel there's any problem with that, and that to me, although it's outside of social norms, is actually inside or in harmony with Love. And this is where I feel we need to go with the questions of spirits and spirit influence. We need to start seeing things as they really are rather than condemning one group of things because of what happens or arguing for another group of things just because they are inside of social norms, normality.

So I feel in the future when we talk more about this question of spirit influence and it has a huge amount of impact upon our life, it does. And there's going to many, many hundreds of questions that we're going to need to answer about this particular question. These issues. We need to come to understand that spirits are just people. They are normal people with normal problems. They are not some kind of special unique creation of God. They don't have any more malevolence than a person who could be malevolent on earth or any more benevolence than a person who could be benevolent on earth, although there are many spirits that are far more than good and benevolent, more perfect if you like than any person on earth. And they are all people. They all want to communicate with us in some way and we can benefit ourselves and we can benefit them through communication if we understand what's going on. But only if we understand what's going on. If we don't understand what's going on or we deny what's going on, the results are just going to get worse.

And this is one of the main reasons why we have a growing amount of mental illness on this planet. Because we're denying what's going on and the system, the world around us, the universe that God's created, the perfect universe is showing us we must be denying some things, denying some truth for this ever growing problem to continue to increase as it's doing. And my suggestion is that we need to change the way we look at this. Come at it from a more experimental and open minded position, rather than from a fear based position, from a position of scientific fear or a position of religious fear. And we need to remove from ourselves these particular fears and investigate it truthfully and come up with all of the proper understandings about the law itself and how it occurs and how interaction occurs and when we do that we will only finish up having benevolent spirit influence. And all of the influences that occur and all of the discussions that occur will benefit everyone involved and I think that's going to be a wonderful time when that begins to happen worldwide.

