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CPAC - created by cable for
Canadians
 
>> THE FOLLOWING IS A CPAC
DEMOCRACY PROJECT PRESENTATION.
>> Peter: FROM FOREIGN
INTERFIERCE AND FAKE NEWS THIS
ELECTION YEAR 2019 IS GOING TO
BE DIFFERENT.
WE KNOW OUR DEMOCRACY IS NOT
PERFECT.
THIS YEAR IT WILL BE TESTED IN
WAYS WE HAVEN'T SEEN BEFORE.
THERE'S A LOT AT STAKE.
>> Karyn: OUR DEMOCRACY NOT
FULFILLED ITS PROMISE TO MANY AS
QUALITY OR JUSTICE.
MANY ARE SATISFIED WE CAN'T
AFFORD TO BE SMUG.
TRUST AND TRUTH ARE ON TRIAL IN
2019.
>> Peter: THAT'S WHY CPAC WITH
MORE THAN 25 PARTNERS LAUNCHED
THE CONVERSATION ABOUT THE
FUTURE OF OUR DEMOCRACY.
WE CALL IT THE DEMOCRACY
PROJECT.
>> RIGHT NOW ALL AROUND THE
WORLD DEMOCRACIES ARE UNDER
TREMENDOUS THREAT.
>> PART OF WHAT WE'RE SEEING
GLOBALLY IS THIS SYSTEMIC EFFORT
TO BREAK DOWN, TO CRACK PILLARS
OF DEMOCRACY.
>> FOREIGN INTERFERENCE PLAYS A
BIG ROLE IN THIS.
THERE ARE SOME FOREIGN STATE
ACTORS THAT ARE LOOKING TO
DIVIDE AND EXACERBATE EXISTING
TENSIONS WITHIN SOCIETY.
>> I WORRY THAT THE BOTTOM IS
FALLING OUT ON TRUTH AND
RELIABILITY IN OUR PUBLIC
SPHERE.
>> WORKS FOR THE 1%.
CERTAINLY DOESN'T WORK FOR THE
DISABILITY COMMUNITY.
>> I FEEL LIKE THE ADVANCEMENT
OF CANADIAN DEMOCRACY STANDS IN
OPPOSITION TO INDIGENOUS
MOVEMENTS FOR SOVEREIGNTY AND
SELF DETERMINATION.
>> THE DIVISIVE LEGACY OF WHITE
SUPREMACY STOOD IN THE WAY OF
DEMOCRATIC EXPANSION AND ALWAYS
TIED TO CLASS, ALWAYS TIED TO
GENDER, ALWAYS TIED TO SEXUAL
ORIENTATION WHEN YOU'RE TALKING
ABOUT HUMAN BEINGS AS A WHOLE.
>> AS CHURCHILL SAID DEMOCRACY
IS THE WORST SYSTEM OF
GOVERNMENT KNOWN TO MAN EXCEPT
FOR ALL THE OTHERS.
>> DEMOCRACY NEEDS A MAJOR UP
DATE.
THE WORD I WOULD USE RIGHT NOW
IS FRAGILE.
>> Karyn: TONIGHT ON THE
DEMOCRACY PROJECT LIVE ESSENTIAL
GUESTS DAVID RODE, MACDA EBI AND
JENNIFER DITCH BURG AND HAYDEN
KING, DAVIDMOUS CRAFT, AND
ROBERT WRIGHT.
COME TOGETHER FOR A CONVERSATION
ON TRUST AND TRUTH AND VOTE
2019.
[ ♪♪♪ ]
>> Karyn: SO WELCOME.
AS YOU CAN SEE WE HAVE A GREAT
LINE UP FOR YOU TONIGHT.
THE CONVERSATION IS GOING TO
CONTINUE OUTSIDE THE HISTORICAL
LONG BOAT HALL.
WE HAVE A LIVE AUDIENCE JOINING
US FROM FORT MCMURRAY, ALBERTA
AND A LIVE AUDIENCE JOINING US
FROM HALIFAX.
WE WILL HEAR FROM THE FOLKS
HERE.
YOU CAN JOIN US AT HOME.
JUST TWEET US.
TWEET #DEMOCRACY LIVE.
LET'S GET THE CONVERSATION
STARTED.
PETER.
>> Peter: THANKS VERY MUCH
KARYN AND WELCOME TO YOU IN
TORONTO AND REMOTE LOCATIONS IN
HALIFAX AND FORT MCMURRAY AND WE
WILL START THE CONVERSATION WITH
MY FIRST GUEST WHO IS DAVID
RHODES THE EXECUTIVE EDITOR
NEW YORKER.COM.
GOOD TO SEE YOU.
>> THANKS WERING HERE.
>> Peter: LET'S SET THE TONE
FOR THE CONVERSATION AND TWO
TIME PEWTER PRIZE WINNER AND
REPORTED FROM WAR ZONE IN BOSNIA
AND KIDNAPPED BY THE TALIBAN AND
HELD HOSTAGE.
HERE YOU'RE WITH US IN TORONTO.
LOVELY YOU'RE HERE WITH US.
BEFORE WE GO MUCH FURTHER THE
REASON WHY IS YOU'VE BEEN A
WITNESS TO SOME OF THE
TREMENDOUS STRESSES ON
DEMOCRACIES AROUND THE WORLD.
WE WANT TO GET YOUR VIEWPOINT TO
START OFF THAT CONVERSATION
TONIGHT.
I SHOULD POINT OUT BEFORE WE GO
FURTHER DAVID IS FROM MAINE.
HE'S KIND OF CANADIAN.
[ Laughter ]
RIGHT?
HE'S KIND OF CANADIAN AND GREAT
TO HAVE HIM HERE.
LET'S START WITH -- LET'S START
THERE.
BASED ON YOUR EXPERIENCES, HOW
PRECARIOUS DO YOU THINK
DEMOCRACY IS RIGHT NOW.
>> I THINK IT'S VERY
PRECARIOUS.
IN THE INTRO THEY TALKED ABOUT
WE SHOULDN'T BE SMUG ABOUT WHAT
WE HAVE.
WHEN I COVERED THE WARS THIS
BOSNIA AND AFGHANISTAN, I
THOUGHT THAT OUR DEMOCRACY WAS
PRETTY SAFE AND A DIFFERENT
SITUATION HERE.
BUT THINGS HAVE CHANGED.
THE BIGGEST CHANGE I THINK IS
TECHNOLOGY.
AND TECHNOLOGY AND OUR INABILITY
TO SORT OF KEEP UP WITH THE
CHANGE AND VET INFORMATION IS
UNDERMINING OUR DEMOCRACY.
>> Peter: HOW SO?
WHAT IS THE BIG THREAT?
>> KIN CAN PUT ANY CONSPIRACY
THEORY THEY WANT ONLINE.
IN THE PAST, YOU KNOW, YOU
COULDN'T ACCESS SOME CRAZY
THEORY WITH 6 OR 10 KEY
STROKES.
YOU KNOW, NOW YOU CAN.
I SAW THIS WHEN I COVERED THE
CONFLICTS OVER SEAS.
I THINK WE'RE ALL SUSCEPTIBLE TO
IT AND IT'S HUMAN NATURE AND
EASIER TO BLAME A CONSPIRACY
THEORY AND FOREIGN PLOT THAN TO
SORT OF FACE THE FAILINGS OF
YOUR CULTURE AND YOUR POLITICAL
NORMS IN YOUR OWN COUNTRY AND
EVEN YOUR OWN FAILINGS.
I KIND OF SEE THAT CREEPING IN
IN CANADA AND THE U.S. AND IT
ALARMS ME.
>> Peter: I THINK PEOPLE WILL
SAY LOOK WE'RE NOT BOSNIA AND
AFGHANISTAN.
>> THAT'S VERY TRUE.
THERE'S NOT VIOLENCE TODAY.
BUT I DO THINK THAT SOME NEWS
JOURNALISTS AND SOME POLITICAL
LEADERS FIND THAT SORT OF
PLAYING TO PEOPLE'S FEARS AND
YOU KNOW SMALLER NUMBER OF
PLAYING TO CONSPIRACY THEORIES
GETS THEM YOU KNOW VOTES.
>> Peter: WHAT DO YOU -- THE
EVENING IS ALL ABOUT TRUTH AND
TRUST AND LOOKING AHEAD IN
PARTICULAR TO THE CANADIAN
ELECTION CAMPAIGN AND SOME OF
THE THREATS AROUND THAT.
I'M CURIOUS TO KNOW FROM YOU
WHAT YOU THINK IS HAPPENING TO
THOSE TWO KEY PILLARS, TRUTH AND
TRUST.
>> I THINK THEY'RE BEING
UNDERMINED.
I THINK SOME OF IT IS EXTERNAL.
I THINK THERE'S AN EFFORT YOU
KNOW BY DIFFERENT AUTHORITARIAN
RE JET STREAMS AROUND THE WORLD
IN REFERENCE TO RUSSIA AND CHINA
SPREADING THE MISINFORMATION AND
GETTING CANADIANS NOT TO TRUST
EACH OTHER.
ONE OF THE OUTCOMES OF THE
DEBATE OF RUSSIAN INTERFERENCE
IN THE U.S. IT'S -- NO ONE WILL
KNOW IF IT CHANGED VOTES BUT
IT'S BEEN ENORMOUSLY SUCCESSFUL
TURNS AMERICANS AGAINST EACH
OTHER.
>> Peter: TELL ME ABOUT THAT.
WE GO BACK TO 2016 AND I'M NOT
SURE WE KNOW THE WHOLE STORY OF
WHAT HAPPENED IN 2016 IN THE
U.S. ELECTION.
IS THERE SOMETHING WE CAN POINT
TO THAT WE KNOW FOR SURE ABOUT
THE EFFECT OF THAT THREE YEARS
LATER?
>> WE DON'T KNOW THE EXACT
EFFECT.
YOU KNOW, TOMORROW MORNING THE
MUELLER REPORT WILL FINALLY BE
RELEASED.
BUT THERE'S ALREADY THIS
JOCKEYING HOW MUCH IT WILL BE
REDACTED AND HOW MUCH NOT.
FRANKLY NO MATTER WHAT THE
REPORT SAYS, AMERICANS ARE SO
DIVIDED, YOU KNOW, I THINK ONE
SIDE WILL SEE THE REPORT AND
THINK IT MEANS ONE THING AND THE
OTHER SIDE WILL THINK IT MEANS
ANOTHER.
BUT WHAT WAS DONE AND THE BOTS
AND DIFFERENT RUSSIAN EFFORTS
WERE TO QUESTION VOTE TOTALS AND
TO PUT OUT CONSPIRACY THEORIES
ABOUT VOTER FRAUD AND TO PLAY -B
ON PEOPLE'S FEARS THAT THEIR
VOTES DIDN'T MATTER.
>> Peter: LET'S TALK ABOUT
THAT FOREIGN INTERFERENCE.
THE CANADIAN GOVERNMENT TOLD US
WE SHOULD EXPECT IN THIS COUNTRY
FOREIGN INTERFERENCE IN THE
CANADIAN ELECTION.
BUT LOOK AT THIS INFORMATION ON
YOUR SCREENS HERE.
WHEN CANADIANS WERE ASKED IN A
PUBLIC OPINION SURVEY FROM DAVID
OF ABACUS DATA WHO THEY THOUGHT
WOULD BE INFLUENCING MANY
CANADIANS THINK THAT THE UNITED
STATES WILL TRY TO INFLUENCE THE
ELECTION OUTCOME THAN THE
RUSSIANS.
WHAT DO YOU THINK OF THAT?
>> MAYBE WELL DESERVED OF THE
UNITED STATES.
IS THAT NUMBER HIGHER OR HAVE
CANADIANS THOUGHT THAT ALWAYS
ABOUT THE SOUTHERN NEIGHBOURS?
NO.
PRESIDENT TRUMP IS AGGRESSIVE OF
ATTACKING CANADA AND THE
DANGEROUS DAIRY FARMERS TRYING
TO CHEAT AMERICANS.
BUT UNDERSTANDABLE REACTIONS
THAT CANADIANS HAVE THAT VIEW.
AND THAT THESE -- YOU KNOW,
THERE'S SO MUCH NOISE, THERE'S
ALL THESE CLAIMS BY THE
PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES
AND WEBSITES OUT THERE IS THE
CIA SECRETLY TRYING TO INFLUENCE
THE CANADIAN ELECTION?
YOU COULD FIND THAT ONLINE RIGHT
NOW IF YOU WANTED TO FIND IT.
THAT'S WHAT'S CHANGED.
AGAIN, I THINK OUR LAWS, OUR
CULTURE AND OUR JOURNALISM
HASN'T KEPT, YOU KNOW, PACE WITH
THE TECHNOLOGICAL CHANGE.
>> Peter: TWO THINGS YOU
RAISED THERE:  LAWS AND LET ME
DIG A LITTLE DEEPER ON BOTH THE
LAW PIECE AND THE JOURNALISM
PIECE.
BUT ON THE LAW PIECE, WHAT ARE
WE SEEING IN TERMS OF ONE OF THE
GREAT PILLARS OF OUR SOCIETIES
TENDS TO BE THOSE INSTITUTIONS
AND THE THINGS THAT WE RELY ON
IN TIMES OF CRISIS AS A NATION
YOU IN THE U.S. AND US AS
CANADIANS AND WHAT CHANGED WITH
THE DIALOGUE OF THOSE
INSTITUTION A AND WHAT THEY
REPRESENT TO A LIBERAL
DEMOCRATIC SOCIETY.
>> I THINK EVERY INSTITUTION IS
OPEN TO A POLITICAL ATTACK.
AND TALKING ABOUT THE AMERICAN
CONTEXT, DONALD TRUMP HAS
ATTACKED FRONTALLY THE FBI.
THE FBI WAS ONE OF THE MOST
RESPECTED INSTITUTIONS AMONG
REPUBLICAN VOTERS IN THE UNITED
STATES FOR DECADES.
THAT FLIPPED.
THAT'S GONE FROM THE VAST
MAJORITY OF REPUBLICANS TRUSTING
THE FBI TO THE VAST MAJORITY NOT
TRUSTING THEM.
AND WHAT IS UNPRECEDENTED IS
THAT EVERYTHING IS UP FOR GRABS,
JUDGES MAKING BIASED RULES AND
BASIC FACTS AND HOW MANY
IMMIGRANTS ARE COMING INTO THE
U.S.
IT'S THIS KIND OF HYPER
EVERYTHING IS POLITICIZED AND
EVERYTHING CAN BE QUESTIONED.
AND FACTS DON'T MATTER.
ONE OF THE REPUBLICANS WHO LED
THE BENGHAZI INVESTIGATION THAT
WAS ATTACK SITUATION LEFT
POLITICS AND WENT TO BE A LAWYER
IN SOUTH CAROLINA.
HE ENJOYS PRACTICING LAW BECAUSE
IT'S A FACT FINDING EXERCISE.
HE DECIDED THAT POLITICS WAS
SIMPLY NOW IN THE U.S. WIN AT
ALL COSTS.
>> Peter: WHAT IS THE POINT OF
ATTACKING THOSE INSTITUTIONS
IN.
>> TO WIN THE NEXT ELECTION.
IT'S ALL ABOUT WINNING.
THE FACTS DON'T MATTER.
YOU KNOW.
IT'S A LEAF MA THE OTHER SIDE IS
BELIEF THAT THE OTHER
SIDE IS DOING THE SAME THING.
IT WAS A DEEP BELIEF IN
REPUBLICAN CIRCLES THAT HILLARY
CLINTON WAS HIDING SOMETHING IN
BENGHAZI AND THE SERVER HAD
SECRETS ON IT AND WHAT SCARES ME
THE MOST IS THE DANGER AND DEEP
DISTRUST AGAINST EACH OTHER AND
IT'S SORT OF CAN WE GET
CANADIANS TO TRUST EACH OTHER
MORE THAN FAKE WEBSITES YOU KNOW
PUT OUT BY FOREIGN --
>> Peter: IS THAT THE BIG
CHALLENGE.
>> YES.
>> Peter: HOW WOULD YOU
DESCRIBE THE LEVEL OF POLITICAL
DISCOURSE IN THE UNITED STATES
NOW?
WHAT'S THE VALUE IN IT?
>> IT'S COMPLETELY -- IT'S
DEEPLY POLARIZED.
AND ECHO CHAMBERS, I THINK THE
CANADIAN MEDIA HAS DONE A BETTER
JOB THAN THE AMERICAN MEDIA BUT
YOU SIMPLY HAVE A FOX NEWS OF
CNN AND MSNBC ECHO SYSTEM.
THE MUELLER REPORT WILL COME OUT
TOMORROW.
ALMOST NO MATTER WHAT IT
SAYS --
>> Peter: SOMEBODY WILL FIND A
NARRATIVE THAT SUITS THEM.
>> WON'T MOVE PUBLIC OPINION.
THAT'S -- THAT SCARES ME AND MY
BIGGER FEAR AND THIS GETS BACK
TO COVERING THESE WARS, YOU
KNOW, IS THAT I DO WORRY THERE
COULD BE, YOU KNOW, POLITICAL
VIOLENCE ON A SMALL SCALE.
>> Peter: REALLY?
>> IT IS NOT --
>> Peter: WE HAVE SEEN SOME
HAVEN'T WE ALREADY?
>> HERE IN TORONTO AND PARTS OF
CANADA, YOU HAVE THIS AMERICAN
MAILING, YOU KNOW, MAKESHIFT
BOMBS THAT DIDN'T WORK TO
DIFFERENT, YOU KNOW, GOVERNMENT
OFFICIALS AND ANALYSTS, THAT
PERSON WAS AGAINST CNN, BUT YOU
HAD A LIBERAL WHO WAS ANGRY
ABOUT ENVIRONMENTAL POLICIES
OPEN FIRE AT THIS REPUBLICAN
PRACTICE ON A SOFTBALL FIELD
OUTSIDE OF WASHINGTON BEFORE THE
ELECTION.
SO IT'S -- YOU KNOW, MY TIME IN
AFGHANISTAN AND PAKISTAN WAS
STRANGE, I -- WHAT SCARES ME IS
IT ISN'T THE HUMANS LIKE TO DO
THINGS THAT ARE WRONG AND LIKE
TO BE VIOLENCE, IT'S OUR ABILITY
TO RATIONALIZE THAT WE -- THAT
WE'RE SOMEHOW UNDER ASSAULT.
OUR WAY OF LIFE AND OUR FAMILY
IS THE VICTIM OF SOME SORT OF
CONSPIRACY THEORY.
I HAD BOSNIAN CEREMONY
EASTBOUNDS SAY THAT AND HAD THE
TALIBAN SAY THAT IN AFGHANISTAN
AND I WORRY ABOUT PEOPLE
RATIONALIZING HERE THAT THEY
HAVE TO ACT FOR THESE
CONSPIRACIES.
>> Peter: WHAT DO YOU DO IN
THIS COUNTRY AND TOLD TO BE
CONCERNED ABOUT FOREIGN
INTERFERENCE?
I MEAN, ARE THERE LESSONS YOU
HAVE SEEN IN THE UNITED STATES
THAT -- I KNOW YOU DIDN'T COME
TO THIS TOWN HALL TO TELL A
PUNCH OF PEOPLE HOW TO DO THEIR
THING HERE IN CANADA.
YOU'VE HEAR BECAUSE YOU'VE SEEN
SOME STUFF FIRSTHAND.
DO YOU HAVE ANY ADVICE TO IN
PART IN THIS COUNTRY HERE IS HOW
YOU CAN DEAL WITH SOME OF THESE
THREATS?
>> I WILL NOT DARE SAY THAT THE
UNITED STATES HAS LESSONS FOR
CANADA PARTICULARLY RIGHT NOW.
I WOULD SAY FOR ANYBODY, YOU
KNOW, IN ANY -- I DON'T KNOW --
LIBERAL DEMOCRACY TO KNOW THERE
IS A CONCERTED EFFORT BY
ATHOUSAND TARIAN REGIMES TO
SPREAD THIS INFORMATION AND TO
READ SKEPTICALLY AND CHOOSE YOUR
INFORMATION SOURCES SKEPTICALLY
AND NOT BELIEVE THE WORSE CASE
SCENARIO THERE'S GREAT
CONSPIRACY BY THIS PARTY OR THAT
PARTY, TO TRUST AND THAT MIGHT
BE A STRETCH HERE, I THINK --
AND IT WAS JUST THE SCANDAL HERE
IN TERMS OF -- BUT TO TRUST SORT
OF NONPARTISAN PUBLIC SERVANTS
THAT ART PART OF A POLITICAL
PARTY.
THERE ARE PEOPLE THAT GO INTO
PUBLIC TO HELP THE PUBLIC.
THERE'S BAD EGGS IN JOURNALISM.
I DO TRY TO KIND OF SAY THE
TRUTH AT THE END OF THE DAY.
SO DON'T GIVE UP ON THAT
IDEALISM THERE ACTUALLY COULD BE
PEOPLE TRYING TO DO THE RIGHT
THING.
BECAUSE AGAIN THAT CYNICISM AND
THAT APATHY THAT'S WHAT PEOPLE
ATTACKING DEMOCRACY WANT.
>> WE TALKED ON SOCIAL MEDIA AND
ABOUT THE ROLE OF TRADITIONAL
MEDIA.
LET'S END OUR CONVERSATION ON
THAT AND WHAT YOU THINK -- YOU
TOUR TEACHED ON IT
EARLIER WHAT ROLE COULD THE
MEDIA PLAY AND WHAT SUPPORT
SHOULD BE GIVEN IN THE MEDIA AND
WHAT KIND OF I GUESS WHAT KIND
OF LICENCE SHOULD COMMON PEOPLE
ATTACH TO WHAT JOURNALISM IS
WHEN IT'S STACKED UP AGAINST
WHAT THEY MIGHT BE SEEING ON
SOCIAL MEDIA.
>> I WOULD -- YOU KNOW, I THINK
JOURNALISM FAILED.
I THINK A LOT OF MAIN STREAM
JOURNALISM FAILED.
I THINK A LOT OF ATTENTION IN
BOTH COUNTRIES ARE ECONOMIC
ISSUES AND GROWING INEQUALITY
AND PEOPLE FEELING THE 1% IS
WINNING OUT.
I KNOW THE AMERICAN MEDIA DIDN'T
GET OUT AND COVER THOSE CITIES
 ARE SUFFERING AND
FACTORIES ARE CLOSING AND I
WOULD GIVE A LITTLE BIT TO
TRADITIONAL MEDIA AND TRUST THEM
MORE THAN A RANDOM WEBSITE.
WE NEED TO BE MORE HUMBLE IN THE
NEWS BUSINESS AND MAKING SURE TO
GET OUT AND COVER THE OTHER
SIDE.
THAT HASN'T HAPPENED.
WE TEND TO BE LOCATED IN CITIES
AND EVERYTHING SEEMS TO BE GOING
FINE.
BUT CLEARLY A LOT OF PARTS OF
RURAL CANADA AND RURAL AMERICA
SUFFERING.
>> Peter: IF SOME PEOPLE ARE
OPEN TO MANIPULATION BY FOREIGN
ENTITIES ON SOCIAL MEDIA, MUST
BE A REASON WHY THERE'S AN
AUDIENCE FOR THAT.
MUST BE MESSAGING THEY'RE OPEN
TO.
>> YES.
>> Peter: DOES THAT SPEAK --
PART OF WHAT YOU'RE SAYING THEN
WE NEED TO GO AS JOURNALISTS WE
NEED TO DO A BETTER JOB OF
TELLING THE STORIES OF WHAT IS
NOT WORKING ABOUT DEMOCRACY FOR
PEOPLE IN THIS COUNTRY.
>> GO OUT AND TALK TO PEOPLE.
I MEAN, THAT'S THE THING TOO.
THE EASE OF TECHNOLOGY.
I KNOW WHAT IS GOING ON.
I CAN JUST WATCH MY TWITTER
FEED.
THERE IS NO REPLACEMENT OF
GROUND TRUTH OF GOING TO THE
SMALL TOWN IN NOVA SCOTIA OR
ALBERTA AND TALKING TO PEOPLE
AND UNDERSTANDING THEIR LIVES
AND PART OF THE CRISIS IN
JOURNALISM IS THAT OUR BUSINESS
MODEL HAS SUFFERED.
I WOULD YOU ENCOURAGE PEOPLE TO
PAY SUBSCRIPTIONS PAUSE WE DON'T
HAVE AS MUCH MONEY TO GO OUT AND
REPORT THESE STORIES.
SO MUCH OF TV JOURNALISM IN THE
UNITED STATES IS TALKING HEADS
YELLING AT EACH OTHER IN
STUDIOS.
I ONCE SAID IS THE FIGHTING --
HIGHER RATINGS IS THAT WHY THE
NETWORK DOES IT?
SOMEONE TOLD ME, NO, HAVING
TALKING HEADS IN THE STUDIO IS
MUCH CHEAPER THAN SENDING A
JOURNALIST INTO THE FIELD WITH A
CAMERA.
WHEN IS THE LAST TIME YOU SAW A
JOURNALIST STANDING OUT THERE
ACTUALLY INTERVIEWING PEOPLE IN
THE SMALL TOWN.
THAT'S OUR RESPONSIBILITY TO DO
MORE OF THAT.
>> Peter: THANK YOU FOR YOUR
TIME TONIGHT TO GET THE
CONVERSATION STARTED.
DAVID WILL BE WITH US THROUGHOUT
THE EVENING AND BACK WITH US
HERE.
THANKS FOR GETTING THAT
STARTED.
RAISED A LOT OF INTERESTING
THINGS TO HELP FIELD THE
CONVERSATION TONIGHT.
WE HAVE A LOT OF CANADIAN VOICES
IN THE PROGRAMMING TONIGHT.
LET'S HEAR FROM SOME OF THEM
NOW.
[ ♪♪♪ ]
>> THE BIGGEST THREAT TO
DEMOCRACY IN CANADA RIGHT NOW IS
DEFINITELY THE INFLUENCE FROM
OTHER PARTS OF THE WORLD.
SPECIFICALLY THE UNITED STATES,
BUT ALSO WHAT'S HAPPENING IN
EUROPE AND I THINK IMMIGRATION
IS A BIG WORLDWIDE ISSUE.
I THINK THAT INFLUENCE SLIPS
INTO CANADA.
[ ♪♪♪ ]
>> SOCIAL MEDIA CAN BE USED TO
INFLUENCE POLITICS, IT WOULD
APPEAR LIKE IN THE STATES AND
HERE AS WELL.
[ ♪♪♪ ]
>> I THINK FAKE NEWS IS
DEFINITELY MISLEADING AND CAN
OFTEN CONSTRUE
MISINTERPRETATIONS OF
REALITIES.
>> I AM CONCERNED ABOUT FAKE
NEWS BECAUSE THERE'S SO MUCH
INFO OUT THERE ALREADY WITH
WIKIPEDIA LEAKS AND EVERYTHING
GOING ON, LIKE, YOU NEVER KNOW
WHAT KIND OF SOURCE IS TRUE.
>> I MOVED COMPLETELY OFF OF
FACEBOOK JUST BECAUSE I SEE SO
MUCH GARBAGE STUFF THAT I KNOW
IS NOT TRUE.
>> ALTERNATIVE NEWS, ALTERNATIVE
FACTS.
THAT'S A BIG CONCERN.
>> IT CAN CERTAINLY BECOME THE
TRUTH IF EVERYBODY BELIEVES IN
IT.
[ ♪♪♪ ]
>> Karyn: SO I'M HERE WITH
DAVID CLADO WHO IS THE FOUNDER
OF ABACUS MEDIA -- DATA, SORRY.
THOSE ARE THE NUMBERS WE ARE
LOOKING AT THAT YOU COLLECTED.
YOU DID A DEEPER DIVE FOR US AND
TAKING A LOOK AT WHAT SOURCES
CANADIANS TRUST FOR
INFORMATION.
>> YEAH, WE DID.
WHAT IS INTERESTING IS YOU KNOW
WE LIVE IN A WORLD WHERE IT'S
SEEMINGLY WE DON'T TRUST VERY
MUCH AT ALL.
ONE OF THE INTERESTING THINGS WE
LEARN IN THE SURVEY WE DID A FEW
WEEKS AGO WAS THE RISING TRUST
THAT CANADIANS HAVE IN NEWS
ORGANIZATIONS.
61% SAID THEY EITHER HAVE A
GREAT DEAL OR SOME TRUST IN NEW
NEWS
ORGANIZATIONS AND WHEN WE
COMPARE IT TO OTHER INSTITUTIONS
LIKE GOVERNMENT AGENCIES AND
DEPARTMENTS, ELECTED OFFICIALS,
 EVEN PEOPLE
THEY FOLLOW ON SOCIAL MEDIA YOU
CAN SEE THAT THE NEWS HAS A MUCH
HIGHER REACH AND MUCH HIGHER
CONFIDENCE LEVEL WHICH I THINK
IS A SUGGESTION AND WE HEARD
SOME OF THE VOICES ACROSS THE
COUNTRY THEY'RE NOT SURE WHERE
TO TRUST ANYMORE.
IT SEEMS THAT THE PENDULUM IS
SWINGING BACK AND INCREASINGLY
THE CANADIANS ARE LOOKING BACK
TO THE MEDIA AND THE MAIN STREAM
NEWS MEDIA AS A SOURCE OF
CREDIBLE INFORMATION.
>> Karyn: OKAY.
BUT YOU SAY 69%.
I GUESS I SHOULD FEEL -- 69% OF
PEOPLE TRUST ME?
>> THAT'S ACTUALLY UP AND IT'S
BEEN RISING IN THE LAST FEW
YEARS.
OTHER SOURCES BECOME
QUESTIONABLE RIGHT?
NOT JUST SOCIAL MEDIA.
I MEAN, THE FACT THAT ONLY 51%
OF CANADIANS TRUST GOVERNMENT
AGENCIES TO TELL CREDIBLE AND
ACCURATE INFORMATION I THINK IS
WHAT WAS PETER AND DAVID WERE
TALKING ABOUT EARLIER AN
INDICATION OF LACK OF TRUST IN
LARGE INSTITUTIONS.
BUT THE NEWS MEDIA IS FILLING A
GAP THAT CANADIANS ARE LOOKING
FOR.
>> Karyn: WELL, THAT IS GOOD
NEWS.
WHAT ABOUT THE INFORMATION THAT
PEOPLE SEE ON SOCIAL MEDIA?
DO CAN'TS TRUST THAT?
>> HERE WE SEE MUCH MORE
NEGATIVE NUMBERS AS I SAID.
ONLY 41% ARE CONFIDENT THAT
INFORMATION THAT THEIR FOLLOWERS
ARE SHARING ON SOCIAL MEDIA IS
ACCURATE AND RELIABLE, RIGHT?
SO THERE'S A GROWING SENSE OF
CYNICISM AND I THINK OF LITTLE
BIT OF FILTERING GOING ON THAT
EVEN THOUGH I'M CHOOSING TO
FOLLOW SOMEBODY, I'M NOT
COMPLETELY SURE THAT WHAT
THEY'RE SHARING OR WHAT THEY'RE
SAYING IS ACCURATE.
SO I THINK THERE'S A GROWING
RECOGNITION PERHAPS THAT NOT
EVERYTHING I SEE ONLINE IS
TRUE.
>> Karyn: SOME OF THAT IS
CYNICISM IS ACTUALLY GOOD NEWS?
>> I THINK IT IS.
BECAUSE IF YOU'RE -- IF YOU'RE
QUESTIONING AND IF YOU ARE
WONDERING AND IF YOU'RE DOUBTFUL
WHAT YOU ARE SEEING, THE HOPE IS
YOUR LENS AND YOUR FILTER GETS A
LITTLE BIT STRONGER AND YOU'RE
ABLE TO WEED OUT WHAT IS GOOD
AND WHAT IS NOT.
>> Karyn: WHAT DOES IT TELL US
ABOUT HOW SOCIAL MEDIA AFFECTS
DEMOCRACY TODAY?
>> WELL, I THINK AS THIS SLIDE
POINTS OUT IS SOCIAL MEDIA
COMPANIES GET KIND OF THE WORSE
BREAD.
71% DON'T TRUST SOCIAL MEDIA
COMPANIES TO CONTROL THE QUALITY
OF MEDIA, WHY YOU'RE SEEING
GOVERNMENT AROUND THE WORLD AS
WELL FILL IN THE BIGGER CAP.
ON THE BIGGER QUESTION OF
DEMOCRACY AND WE ASK CANADIANS
IS SOCIAL MEDIA MORE HELPFUL
THAN HARMFUL OR HARMFUL THAN
HELPFUL, MAJORITY SAY THEY THINK
IT'S HURTING THE DEMOCRACY.
THERE'S A RECOGNITION THERE AND
MAJORITY OF CANADIANS FEEL ALL
OF THE NOISE WE'RE SEEING ON
SOCIAL MEDIA AND WHAT WE'RE
SEEING IS NOT IS HURTING THE
DEMOCRACY.
>> Karyn: FUNNY YOU SHOULD SAY
THAT.
STAY THERE.
I HAVE SOME TWEETS.
>> OH.
>> Karyn: GOING TO START OUT
WITH ONE FROM ERIC LADEN, SOCIAL
MEDIA AS A SET OF TECHNOLOGIES
IS NEUTRAL.
THE CURRENT STRUCTURE WHERE
PRIVATELY CONTROLLED BY VERY FEW
PEOPLE AND ADVERTISING DRIVEN
AND BARELY REGULATED AND
POPULATED BY ARMIES OF POTS IS
BOTS IS NOT GOOD FOR
DEMOCRACY.
SOCIAL MEDIA GIVES US IMPRESSION
WE'RE INFORMED EVEN THOUGH ALL
WE HAVE ARE THE BARE MINIMUM
FACTS WE DELIVER IN CLICK BASED
FASHION.
SOCIAL MEDIA IN THE PRESENCE
FORM HAS BEEN TERRIBLE FOR
DEMOCRACY.
WHAT DO YOU THINK OF THOSE
COMMENTS?
>> I THINK THAT'S A REFLECTION
OF WHAT WE'RE HEARING ACROSS THE
COUNTRY, RIGHT, IS THAT PEOPLE
WHO ARE PAYING ATTENTION AND
SEEING HOW -- WHETHER IT'S THE
ELECTED OFFICIALS OR WHETHER
IT'S ORGANIZED INTERESTS OR
BOTS, RIGHT, AND FOREIGN
INTERESTS CAN TAKE HOLD OF THIS
AS ONE OF THE TWEETS DESCRIBED
NEUTRAL PLATFORM AND USE IT AS A
WEAPON.
OF AND I THINK THERE'S A GROWING
RECOGNITION.
THE MORE WE TALK ABOUT THIS, I
HOPE THE MORE CANADIANS WILL BE
MINDFUL AND THINKING ABOUT WHAT
THEY'RE CONSUMING IS IT REAL OR
NOT.
>> Karyn: I CAN'T LEAVE IT ON
A NEGATIVE NOTE.
LET'S TALK ABOUT ONE THINGS THAT
RUDY THINGS THAT TWITTER HAS
DONE.
>> IT ALLOWS PEOPLE TO ESCAPE
AND ONE VOTE EVE FOUR TO FIVE
YEARS AND ELECTED REPRESENTATIVE
OR MP WHO TOWS THE PARTY LINE
ONCE IN OTTAWA AND FORGETS
CONSTITUENTS.
TWITTER HAS MORE POWER THAN US.
>> THAT IS INTERESTING AND WHAT
TWITTER HAS DONE IS OPEN UP
ACCESS TO LEADERS AND WE KNOW
WHAT THE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED
STATES IS THINKING ABOUT AT
3:00 A.M. WHETHER WE WANT TO OR
NOT, WE HAVE ACCESS, RIGHT?
SO WE CAN RESPOND.
WE CAN LET OUT A LITTLE STEAM
SOMETIMES.
I THINK THERE IS CERTAINLY A
BENEFIT AND IT'S A VERY
DEMOCRATIC PLATFORM.
BUT I THINK IT'S ALSO, IF YOU
LET IT RUN WILD WE HAVE SEEN
WHAT IMPACT IT CAN HAVE.
IT'S ABOUT FINDING A BALANCE.
>> Karyn: OKAY.
WE HAVE A POLL THAT WE PUT OUT.
SO WE HAVE ASKED TWO QUESTIONS: 
WE HAVE ASKED THE AUDIENCE TO
VOTE IS SOCIAL MEDIA GOOD FOR
DEMOCRACY?
IS CANADA VULNERABLE TO FAKE
NEWS AND MISINFORMATION IN THIS
UP COMING ELECTION?
LET'S TAKE A LOOK AT THE RESULTS
HERE.
WE HAVE 72.3% YES AND 27.6% NO.
AND 77.5% YES AND 22.4% NO.
THINK MIGHT HAVE BEEN AN EXTRA
VOTE IN THERE.
SO WE ARE NOW GOING TO GO OVER
TO OUR LIVE AUDIENCE IN HALIFAX
AND WE'RE GOING TO LISTEN TO
SOME QUESTIONS THERE.
>> THANK YOU KARYN.
HERE IN HALIFAX, THE
UNIVERSITY.
GOOD EVENING.
>> GOOD EVENING.
>> HOW ARE YOU DOING.
>> I'M DOING GREAT THANKS.
>> WHAT DO YOU THINK ABOUT THE
CONVERSATION SO FAR.
>> I THINK IT'S BEEN REALLY
INTERESTING.
YOU KNOW, WE'RE TALKING A LITTLE
BIT ABOUT THIS WHOLE PROCESS OF
SOCIAL MEDIA AND HOW IT AFFECTS
DEMOCRACY AND IN MY OPINION, I
THINK WHAT IT DOES IS AMPLIFIES
TENSIONS THAT ALREADY EXISTS IN
CANADIAN SOCIETY.
ULTIMATELY, SOCIAL MEDIA WHETHER
OR NOT IT'S BEING MANIPULATED BY
FOREIGN AGENTS ALLOWS CANADIANS
TO EXPRESS WHAT THEY FEEL.
AND IF WHAT THEY FEEL ARE SOME
OF THE TENSIONS, I THINK WE HAVE
TO LOOK MORE SERIOUSLY ABOUT HOW
OUR SOCIETY GOVERNS ITSELF AND
THE KINDS OF THINGS THAT ARE
HAPPENING HERE.
>> OKAY.
I HAVE ANOTHER QUESTION FOR
YOU.
NOW, WHAT DIVISIONS IN CANADA DO
YOU THINK COULD BE EXPLOITED OR
MADE WORSE BY FOREIGN MEDDLING?
>> CERTAINLY ISSUES OF CLASS,
ISSUES OF RACE, ISSUES OF
GENDER.
IF YOU LOOK AT THE WAY THAT
FEMALE POLITICIANS, FOR EXAMPLE,
ARE TREATED ON SOCIAL MEDIA, BY
PEOPLE, FOR EXAMPLE, ON TWITTER,
IT EXPOSES SOME OF THE DEEP
ISSUES OF MISOGYNY THAT EXIST IN
OUR SOCIETY.
AGAIN, IF YOU LOOK AT THE
EXPERIENCES OF VISIBLE PEOPLE
WHO ARE IN -- RACIALIZED PEOPLE
WHO ARE VISIBLE ON SOCIAL MEDIA,
AGAIN, IT'S A CONTEXT WHERE, YOU
KNOW, YOU START TO SEE A LOT OF
THIS KIND OF DISCRIMINATION AND
THESE SENTIMENTS.
PEOPLE ARE ABLE TO EXPRESS THOSE
KINDS OF SENTIMENTS.
>> YEAH.
ALSO, WHY IS THIS SUBJECT
IMPORTANT FOR YOU PERSONALLY?
>> IT'S IMPORTANT TO ME BECAUSE
I THINK THAT, YOU KNOW,
ULTIMATELY SOCIAL MEDIA CAN ALSO
PROVIDE A LOT OF GOOD.
WE CAN CREATE SPACES OF
VISIBILITY AND OF SOLIDARITY FOR
COMMUNITIES WHO HAVEN'T HAD
THOSE SPACES BEFORE.
ESPECIALLY, YOU KNOW, WHEN WE'RE
TALKING ABOUT KIND OF EXPOSING
OR DISCUSSING INJUSTICES THAT
HAPPEN IN OUR SOCIETY.
SOCIAL MEDIA HAS ALLOWED US A
PLATFORM AND OPPORTUNITY TO BE
ABLE TO ARTICULATE SOME OF THOSE
CONCERNS IN WAYS WE'VE NEVER
BEEN ABLE TO DO.
IT'S IMPORTANT THAT WE TAKE THAT
OPPORTUNITY SERIOUSLY AND WE
TAKE THE RESPONSIBILITY THAT WE
HAVE AS CITIZENS TO KIND OF
NEGOTIATE HOW THAT HAPPENS.
SO, YOU KNOW, IT'S A BIG
CHALLENGE BUT I THINK IT'S ONE
THAT WE CAN START TO OVERCOME
OVER TIME IF THAT MAKES SENSE.
>> WELL, THANK YOU VERY MUCH.
TORONTO OVER TO YOU.
>> Peter: THANK YOU VERY
MUCH.
AND I THINK THAT'S PART OF THE
REASON WE'RE DOING WHAT WE'RE
DOING HERE IS WE'VE TALKED ABOUT
SOCIAL MEDIA AND FOREIGN
INTERFERENCE.
BUT I THINK OPENING THE
CONVERSATION HAS CREATED A
LARGER CONVERSATION ABOUT WHAT'S
GOING ON IF THE COUNTRY AND WHAT
WE ACTUALLY ALL THINK OF THE
STATE OF OUR DEMOCRACY AND WHAT
WE THINK NEEDS TO BE DONE TO
KEEP IT STRONG OR MAKE IT
STRONGER.
SO IT'S TIME FOR THE FIRST
PANEL.
BESSN A AND JENNIFER AND MATH.
GOOD TO SEE YOU.
LET'S DRILL DOWN TO THE AREAS.
LET'S LOOK AT FOREIGN
INTERFERENCE.
YOU LOOKED AT THAT.
WHAT DO YOU SEE?
THE GOVERNMENT SAYS WE SHOULD BE
CONCERNED.
HOW CONCERNED SHOULD WE BE?
>> LET'S LOOK AT THIS A LITTLE
BIT.
WE SHOULDN'T BE WORRIED THAT OUR
VOTE DOESN'T COUNT.
IT WILL COUNT.
THAT IS IMPORTANT.
OUR ELECTION SYSTEM IS STILL A
PAPER BALLOT SYSTEM.
THERE'S NO WORRY HERE OF
ELECTRONIC INTERFERING OR
SOMEHOW MY VOTE OR YOUR VOTE
WON'T ACTUALLY GET COUNTED.
THE FEAR IS IN MANIPULATING
PEOPLE'S PERCEPTION AND
DISINFORMATION THAT IS OUT THERE
THAT MAY BE PROVIDED THROUGH
FAKE NEWS AND FRANKLY PLAYING UP
ON POSSIBLE DIVISIONS AND WEDGE
ISSUES.
I THINK THERE'S PLENTY OF
EVIDENCE THERE ARE MANY
GOVERNMENTS TRYING TO TAKE
ADVANTAGE OF THE FACT THAT WE
ARE GOING TO THE POLLS, THAT
THIS IS NATURALLY A TIME WHEN
THERE IS HEATED DEBATES AND
CONVERSATIONS.
AND I THINK EVIDENCE IS CLEAR
THAT THERE ARE COUNTRIES THAT DO
WANT TO SEE PERHAPS A FAVOURED
CANDIDATE, PERHAPS A GOVERNMENT
FALLING, PERHAPS EVEN THAT
CANADIANS DO NOT CONTINUE TO
REPRESENT THIS BRIGHT EXAMPLE OF
PLURALISM AND MULTICULTURALISM.
LET'S NOT FORGET A BIG SENTIMENT
OUT THERE IS THAT IMMIGRATION
AND MULTICULTURALISM IS A BAD
THING.
THERE ARE A LOT OF PEOPLE
WORKING PARTICULARLY AUTOCRATIC
STATES THAT WANT TO UNDERMINE
THAT PRINCIPLE.
WE ARE THE BEACON OF THAT QUITE
FRANKLY TODAY.
>> Peter: I WAS GOING TO ASK.
WHY PICK ON LONELY CANADA?
WHY WOULD FOREIGN ENTITIES BE
INTERESTED ON TARGETED CANADA?
YOU TOUCHED ON SOME OF IT.
TO WHAT END?
DEPOLARIZE AND DESTABILIZE AND
WE'RE NOT A GREAT PLACE TO BE?
>> ABSOLUTELY YOU SAY IT.
AS THEY THROW CHAOS IN A
PEACEFUL PLACE LIKE CANADA IT
MAKES THEM LOOK GOOD.
THAT'S WHAT AUTO CRAFT WANTS.
THAT'S WHAT PUTINS AND OTHER
GOVERNMENTS WANT YOU TO THINK.
LOOK AT OTHER DEMOCRACIES AND
LOOK AT EUROPE AND NORTH AMERICA
THEIR A MESS.
THAT'S THE MESSAGE THEY WANT.
THEY LOOK NICE AND SHINY AND
FRANKLY VERY STABLE WHEN WE LOOK
CHAOTIC.
>> Peter: SHOULD FOREIGN
INTERFERENCE BE THE BIGGEST
CONCERN.
>> I DON'T THINK SO.
I JUST STARTED COVERING THE
FIFTH PRESIDENT CAMPAIGN FOR
ROLLING STONE, I THINK WHAT THE
REASON THAT WE'RE HAVING THIS
CONVERSATION RIGHT NOW BECAUSE
WE HAD AN ELECTORAL RESULT IN
2016 THAT WAS DEEPLY CONFUSING
AND THERE WAS A HUGE DISCONNECT
ESPECIALLY WITH AFFLUENT
AUDIENCES WHO DIDN'T UNDERSTAND
WHY IT HAPPENED.
BUT IF YOU'VE BEEN COVERING
ELECTIONS IN THIS COUNTRY FOR A
LONG TIME, YOU SAW THAT THERE'S
AN ENORMOUS AMOUNT OF DISCONTENT
AND RAGE IN THE POPULATION THAT
HAS BEEN BREWING FOR A LONG TIME
AND HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH
FOREIGN COUNTRIES TRYING TO
INFLUENCE OUR OPINIONS.
PEOPLE ARE ANGRY.
THEY'RE ANGRY ABOUT THEIR LACK
OF JOB SECURITY IN THE UNITED
STATES, THEY'RE ANGRY ABOUT
HEALTH COSTS.
I HAVE MET PEOPLE WHO HAVE
ATTEMPTED SUICIDE OVER STUDENT
DEBTS.
NONE OF THAT IS FAKE NEWS.
THAT'S ALL REALITY.
I THINK WHAT WE'RE TALKING
ABOUT --
>> Peter: YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT
THE UNITED STATES BUT SOME OF
THEM ARE PORTABLE CONCERNS AND
THEY CAN TRAVEL THE CONCERNS.
WE HAVE SOME OF THE SAME
 CONCERNS HERE IN
THIS COUNTRY.
AND JOB SECURITY IS A BIG ISSUE
FOR A LOT OF CANADIANS AND ENTER
IN THIS CAMPAIGN AND A BORDER
BETWEEN THE TWO COUNTRIES BUT
SOME OF THE SAME THINGS EXIST.
>> OF COURSE THEY DO.
I THINK WHAT HAPPENED AFTER
DONALD TRUMP GOT ELECTED AND THE
ENTIRE MEDIA CLASS MISSED THE
STORY, ALL THE PUNDITS SAID HE
COULDN'T WIN THE NOMINATION.
THERE WAS A COLUMN IN THE
"WASHINGTON POST" THAT GOT
PROMISED TO ACTUALLY PHYSICALLY
EAT HIS COLUMN, HE DID IF TRUMP
WON THE NOMINATION.
NOBODY PREDICTED IT.
NOBODY SAW IT COMING.
EVERYBODY GOT THE STORY WRONG.
AUDIENCES WERE COMPLETELY
UNPREPARED.
NATURALLY AFTER TRUMP GOT
ELECTED WE LOOK FOR
EXPLANATIONS.
MUST BE RUSSIA, MUST BE FACE
NEWS.
IT IS NOT.
THERE IS WIDESPREAD ANGER ON
BOTH SIDES OF THE AISLE
RESPONSIBLE FOR THE SAUNDERS
CAMPAIGN AND TRUMP CAMPAIGN
REVOLT AGAINST REPUBLICANS AND
OTHER SIDE.
I THINK WE NEED TO LOOK INWARD
THAN OUT WARD.
>> Peter: THIS COMES BACK TO
JENNIFER AND EXMORPHY PLOYATION
AND WHAT IS IT THAT FOREIGN
ENTITY WOULD TRY TO EXPLOIT WITH
DIVISIONS.
THAT IS A LOT OF CASES
CHALLENGES FOR OTHER COUNTRY IS
CHECK THE FOREIGN INTERFERENCE
OF TAKING THE PULSE OF YOUR
COUNTRY AND SAYING WHAT IS IT
ABOUT YOUR MESSAGE THAT IS
FINDING AN AUDIENCE?
>> I WOULD AGREE WITH
MATT IN THE SENSE THAT FIRST OF
ALL I WOULD SAY WE CAN'T OVER
LAY WHAT WOULD HAPPEN IN THE
UNITED STATES WHAT HAPPENED WITH
CANADA.
WE HAVE A VERY DIFFERENT
THANKFUL GOODNESS MEDIA
ARCHITECTURE IN CANADA.
WE DON'T HAVE A FOX NEWS.
WE DON'T HAVE EQUIVALENT TO
BREITBART AND THE WHOLE KIND OF
WARPED SYSTEM THAT HAS NO
STANDARDS ON THE FAR RIGHT.
THANKFULLY IN CANADA WE HAVE A
MEAD SYSTEM THAT IS BASICALLY IN
THE CENTRE AND JOURNALISTICKED
THES AND PUBLIC EDITORS AND
PUBLIC COUNCILS.
THERE'S A LOT WRONG WITH THE
MEDIA THAT WE MIGHT TALK ABOUT
TODAY.
I WILL SEE THE CLASS IS HALF
FULL I THINK WE HAVE A PRETTY
GOOD DEMOCRACY IN CANADA.
WE NEED TO BE VIGILANT ABOUT
WHAT IS HAPPENING WITH THE MEDIA
THE FACT WE LOST 12,000 JOBS IN
MEDIA IN THE COUNTRY AND CAN'T
COVER THE COUNTRY THE WAY WE
USED TO.
>> Peter: LAY IT OUT FOR US
WHAT IS THE CONSEQUENCE IF
YOU'RE COMPETING AGAINST A
SOCIAL MEDIA PLATFORM AND
INFORMATION PEOPLE CAN FIND
THERE AND A DIMINISHED AND
WEAKENED TRADITIONAL MEDIA
SERVICE?
>> WELL, I WOULD STILL SAY THAT
I THINK MOST PEOPLE WHETHER THEY
GET IT THROUGH SOCIAL MEDIA OR
NOT THEY'RE GETTING THEIR MEDIA
FROM TRADITIONAL MEDIA.
BUT THE PROBLEM THAT I THINK IS
AT THE CORE OF WHAT WE SHOULD BE
WORRIED ABOUT IN CANADA IS
SOCIAL COHESION.
IF YOU LOOK AT WHAT THE ROLE
THAT THE MEDIA PLAYS IN KEEPING
US TOGETHER AS A COUNTRY IT'S
VERY IMPORTANT ONE IF YOU WANT
TO READ ABOUT WHAT IS HAPPENING
IN RED DEER AND YOU LIVE IN
St. JOHN'S YOU DEPEND ON THE
"CANADIAN PRESS" AND CBC AND CTV
AND THE PEOPLE THAT HAVE THE
MEANS TO TELL YOU WHAT IS
HAPPENING IN DIFFERENT PARTS OF
THE COUNTRY.
SO WHAT HAPPENS -- AND THIS IS
OUR REALITY IN CANADA.
WHAT HAPPENS WHEN YOU HAVE FEWER
JOURNALISTS ACROSS THE COUNTRY
TO TELL OUR STORIES TO EACH
OTHER IN A RESPONSIBLE WAY?
IN A WAY THAT IS REFLECTIVE OF
THE COUNTRY?
THAT GOES TO THE PROBLEMS I SEE
IN OUR MEDIA SYSTEM.
>> Peter: RIGHT.
>> SO I THINK THAT WE HAVE A
VERY PARTICULAR PROBLEM IN
CANADA AND WE HAVE A PARTICULAR
PROBLEM IN PARLIAMENT AS WELL
WITH THE EMPOWERMENT OF OUR MP
SUCKS.
IRONICALLY YOU KNOW THE SENATE,
THE NEW SENATE AND I SEE SENATOR
OMABAR HERE THEY ARE DOING THE
CONSENSUS NONPARTISAN WORK WE
WOULD LIKE THE MEMBERS OF
PARLIAMENT TO DO.
THAT'S ANOTHER AREA.
OUR POLICY MAKERS.
THERE WAS A REFERENCE TO
IMPORTANCE OF PUBLIC SERVANTS.
OUR POLICY MAERAKESHS ARE HAVING
TO WORK HARD TO KEEP WITH ALL OF
THE CHANGES AND NOT JUST SOCIAL
MEDIA AND ARTIFICIAL
INTELLIGENCE.
WHAT WILL THAT DO TO DEMOCRACY
WHEN THESE TECHNOLOGIES
ADVANCE?
WHAT IS THAT GOING TO DO?
TORONTO IS DEALING WITH AN ISSUE
HERE THAT PART OF THE CITY THAT
MAY BE AFFECTED BY AI AND THESE
ARE IMPORTANT ISSUES WE HAVE TO
TALK ABOUT.
>> Peter: I WANT TO LOOK AT
THE CLIPS AND DEAL WITH SOCIAL
MEDIA AND COME BACK AND GET YOUR
REACTION TO IT.
THE FIRST IS FROM TWITTER'S
REPRESENTATIVE FOR GOVERNMENT
RELATIONS HERE IN CANADA
MICHELLE AUSTIN.
WE ASKED HER ABOUT SOME OF THE
ISSUES THAT ARE NOW BEFORE US AS
A COUNTRY ABOUT REGULATING
SOCIAL MEDIA AND RESPONSIBILITY
OF SOCIAL MEDIA AND THE ROLE
THEY PLAY.
HERE IS WHAT SHE HAD TO SAY.
>> SO NOBODY LIKES TO BE
REGULATED.
I THINK THAT'S SAFE TO SAY WHEN
YOU'RE A PRIVATE BUSINESS.
SOCIAL MEDIA COMPANIES OPERATE
UNDER OTHER ORGANIZATIONS IN
CANADA.
THERE ARE HATE LAWS IN CANADA
AND WE HAVE TO OPERATE WITHIN
THEM.
WHEN DISINFORMATION HAPPENS OR
MISINFORMATION HAPPENS,
CERTAINLY THERE'S A DEGREE OF
RESPONSIBILITY FOR TWITTER THAT
PEOPLE HAVE TO OPERATE WITHIN
OUR TERMS OF SERVICE BUT WE
REALLY DEPEND ON THE PUBLIC TO
STEP IN AND MAKE THOSE
CORRECTIONS IN REALTIME.
WE'RE FAST.
WE'RE PUBLIC.
AND ALSO WE'RE LIVE.
SO PEOPLE COME TO TWITTER WHEN
THERE'S BIG EVENTS HAPPENING.
BIG EVENTS INCLUDE ELECTIONS.
BIG EVENTS INCLUDE DEMOCRATIC
EVENTS LIKE PROTESTS OR THE
HOUSE OF COMMONS OR DEBATES.
SO I THINK TWITTER IN PARTICULAR
IS REALLY IMPORTANT TO
DEMOCRACIES WHEN ELECTIONS ARE
HAPPENING.
>> Peter: ALL RIGHT.
THAT IS ONE PERSPECTIVE.
NOW, JUST BEFORE WE GET BACK TO
OUR CONVERSATION I WANT YOU TO
HEAR ANOTHER PERSPECTIVE.
THIS IS CAROL CAWALADER WHO IS
ONE OF THE JOURNALISTS WHO
HELPED EXPOSE THE FACEBOOK
CAMBRIDGE ANALYTICAL DATA
SCANDAL.
I THINK MOST PEOPLE ARE FAMILIAR
WITH THAT GOING BACK A COUPLE OF
YEARS.
SHE WAS IN SILICONE VALLEY
EARLIER THIS WEEK TALKING TO AN
AUDIENCE ABOUT THE
RESPONSIBILITIES AND DUTIES OF
THE BIG SOCIAL MEDIA PLATFORM
PLAYERS.
HERE IS PART OF WHAT SHE HAD TO
SAY.
LET'S HAVE A LISTEN WHAT SHE
THINKS WHAT IS GOING ON AND WHAT
NEEDS TO HAPPEN AND WE'LL COME
BACK AND TALK ABOUT IT.
>> THIS TECHNOLOGY THAT YOU HAVE
BEEN INVENTED HAS BEEN AMAZING.
BUT NOW IT'S A CRIME SCENE.
AND YOU HAVE THE EVIDENCE, AND
IT'S NOT ENOUGH TO SAY THAT YOU
WILL DO BETTER IN THE FUTURE.
BECAUSE TO HAVE ANY HOPE OF
STOPPING THIS FROM HAPPENING
AGAIN, WE HAVE TO KNOW THE
TRUTH.
BECAUSE WHAT THE BREXIT VOTE
DEMONSTRATES IS THAT LIBERAL
DEMOCRACY IS BROKEN.
AND YOU BROKE IT.
THIS IS NOT DEMOCRACY.
SPREADING LIES IN DARKNESS PAID
FOR WITH ILLEGAL CASH FROM GOD
KNOWS WHERE, IT'S SUBVERSION.
AND YOU ARE ACCESSORIES TO IT.
AND IT'S NOT ABOUT LEFT OR RIGHT
OR LEAVE OR REMAIN OR TRUMP OR
NOT.
IT'S ABOUT WHETHER IT'S ACTUALLY
POSSIBLE TO HAVE A FREE AND FAIR
ELECTION EVER AGAIN.
BECAUSE AS IT STANDS I DON'T
THINK IT IS.
>> Peter: OKAY.
TWO DIFFERENT POINTS OF
VIEW ABOUT THE ROLE OF SOCIAL
MEDIA.
LET ME START WITH YOU.
PICK UP ON HER SUGGESTION IT'S
NOT POSSIBLE SHE THINKS TO HAVE
ANOTHER FAIR ELECTION, WHAT DO
YOU THINK?
>> I THINK IT'S POSSIBLE TO HAVE
ANOTHER FAIR ELECTION.
BUT WE NEED TO BE VIGILANT.
THE KEY WORD IS THAT WE NEED TO
UNDERSTAND THAT THE INTERNET HAS
ALLOWED ALL OF THIS INFORMATION
TO COME TO US ALMOST
UNFILTERED.
I MEAN, I RESPECT THE FACT THAT
WE HAVE FANTASTIC JOURNALISTS IN
THIS COUNTRY BUT WE'RE NOT
LISTENING TO ONLY THE
JOURNALISTS IN THIS COUNTRY.
THAT'S THE CHALLENGE.
THERE ARE SO MANY VOICES AND SO
MANY OPINIONS AND MANY OF THEM
HAVE BACKERS THAT INCLUDE
GOVERNMENTS THAT DON'T
NECESSARILY, YOU KNOW, HAVE GOOD
INTENTIONS WHEN IT COMES TO OUR
DEMOCRACY.
WE NEED TO BE COGNIZANT OF
THAT.
I THINK THIS IS WHERE WE CAN'T
BE NAIVE.
WE CAN'T BE NAIVE WHEN WE LOOK
AT SOME OF THE ELECTIONS THAT
HAPPEN IN EUROPE, FOR EXAMPLE,
YOU CAN SEE A MONEY TRAIL BACK
TO RUSSIA.
THAT IS IMPORTANT.
THAT IS FUNDAMENTAL.
AND I THINK WE CAN SEE TODAY
WHERE EUROPE IS EXTREMELY
DIVIDED, IT COMES FROM THE
INTENTION OF A FOREIGN
GOVERNMENT TO MEDDLE QUITE
DIRECTLY.
I DON'T THINK THAT WE, CANADA,
THIS COUNTRY THAT WE OFTEN THINK
IS TOO NICE FOR ANYBODY TO PICK
ON, ON THE CONTRARY.
WE HAVE TARGET NUMBER 1 IN MY
HUMBLE OPINION.
>> Peter: REALLY.
>> BECAUSE FRANKLY WE ARE OUT
THERE.
OH, YEAH, BECAUSE WE ARE OUT
THERE CHAMPING HUMAN RIGHTS AND
WE ARE SAYING WE HAVE A FEMINISM
FOREIGN POLICY ANDRE DE GRASSE
AND RESPECT THE RULE OF LAW AND
NOT TURN OVER THE C OF THE O AND
THAT'S THE CHALLENGE.
THE STAND THAT WE HAVE TAKEN IN
THE PAST YEAR ARE ONES THAT ARE
MAKING THE ENEMIES FURIOUS.
>> Peter: CAN WE HAVE FAIR
ELECTION?
>> I THINK WE CAN.
I THINK I'M CONCERNED ABOUT THE
REGULATION OF SOCIAL MEDIA.
OF I THINK I'VE ONLY REPORTERS
THAT REPORTED ON CIVIL LIBERTY
CONSEQUENCES OF SOME OF THE
REACTIONS HAVE BEEN TO THE FAKE
NEWS ISSUE.
WE HAVE SEEN IN THE LAST COUPLE
OF YEARS THE SENATE HAS HAULED
IN ALL THESE COMPANIES, TWITTER,
FACEBOOK, GOOGLE BROUGHT THEM
INTO WASHINGTON AND SAID WE WANT
YOU TO COME UP WITH A PLAN TO
PREVENT SEWING OF DISCORD THESE
COMPANIES HAVE ZAPPED
INDIVIDUALS WILLY-NILLY.
>> Peter: WE HAVE HAD THAT IN
CANADA AND SOME PEOPLE KICKED
OFF SOCIAL MEDIA PLATFORMS FOR
THE VIEWS THEY EXPRESS WITH THE
SOCIAL MEDIA COMPANIES SAYING
THEY'RE FOLLOWING THEIR POLICIES
AND THEIR STANDARDS THAT DON'T
ALLOW IT.
YOU THINK THAT'S A PROBLEM?
>> WELL, LOOK, THE LAWS IN
CANADA AND THE UNITED STATES ARE
DIFFERENT.
WE DON'T HAVE THE SAME KIND OF
HATE LAWS THAT YOU DO.
>> Peter: RIGHT.
>> BUT THE ISSUE IS RELATIVELY
SIMILAR.
IN THE UNITED STATES WE HAD A
VERY SLOW BUT I THINK VERY
EFFECTIVE SPEECH REGULATION
SYSTEM FOR A LONG TIME.
IT WAS LITIGATION-BASED.
WE POLICED THE SPEECH, NOT THE
SPEAKER.
IF YOU COMMITTED LIBEL, IF YOU
ARMED SOMEBODY WITH YOUR SPEECH,
THERE WAS FINANCIAL
COMPENSATION.
NOW, BECAUSE OF THE WAY THE NEWS
IS ORGANIZED, YOU CAN SIMPLY
TAKE AN ACTOR AND REMOVE THEM
FROM A COUPLE OF INTERNET
PLATFORMS UNELECTED STAR CHAMBER
OF PEOPLE WHO YOU KNOW WE DON'T
EVEN KNOW WHO THEY ARE.
THEY WILL BE TAKING PEOPLE OFF
THE INTERNET.
AND YES PEOPLE ARE GOING TO
APPLAUD IT WHEN IT'S ALEX JONES
OR THAT KIND OF A FIGURE.
BUT YOU KNOW WHO IS IT GOING TO
BE TEN YEARS FROM NOW?
THAT'S WHAT WE HAVE TO WORRY
ABOUT.
>> Peter: WHAT DO YOU THINK?
THE GOVERNMENT IN THIS COUNTRY
HAS BEEN UNDER A LOT OF PRESSURE
TO REGULATE SOCIAL MEDIA
COMPANIES.
THEY'VE DONE SOME THINGS
INVOLVING THE ELECTION.
BUT AS RECENTLY AS THE LAST
COUPLE OF WEEKS, THE MINISTER OF
DEMOCRATIC INSTITUTIONS HAS SAID
I'M NOT SATISFIED WITH THE
EFFORTS SOCIAL MEDIA COMPANIES
ARE MAKING.
BUT SO FAR, HAS YET TO REALLY
CRACK DOWN AND TALK ABOUT
REGULATING THEM AND HASN'T DONE
IT.
THE ELECTION IS PROBABLY TOO
CLOSE TO REGULATE BETWEEN NOW
AND THE NEXT FEW MONTHS OF
PARLIAMENT.
WHAT DO YOU THINK?
WHAT SHOULD WE DO HERE?
>> WELL, I THINK THERE ARE
THINGS THEY CAN DO TO BRING MORE
TRANSPARENCY TO WHAT IS GOING ON
ON SOCIAL MEDIA.
SO MAYBE NOT REGULATING THE
SPEECH, BUT REGULATING FOR
EXAMPLE POLITICAL ADVERTISING.
I DO THINK THAT THEY IN ONE OF
THE PIECES OF LEGISLATION HAVE
THE IDEA OF REGISTRIES.
SO ANY AD THAT APPEARS ONLINE,
YOU HAVE TO SAY WHO IS PAYING
FOR THE AD, BECAUSE A LOT OF
TIMES THAT'S THE PROBLEM.
YOU DON'T KNOW THE AD THAT
YOU'RE SEEING DURING AN
ELECTION, WHO IS ACTUALLY PAYING
FOR IT.
WHY ARE THEY DIRECTING IT AT
ME?
THAT ALSO --
>> Peter: EVEN THAT IS KIND OF
UNEVEN BECAUSE SOME SOCIAL MEDIA
COMPANIES SAY THEY WILL TRYING
TO DO -- GOOGLE SAID --
>> I'M OUT OF HERE.
>> Peter: THAT'S TOO RICH FOR
US AND NOT ALLOW POLITICAL ADS
ON GOOGLE.
IS THAT WHAT WE WANT?
>> IF GOOGLE CAN DO WHAT THAT
SMALL THING THAT IS SAYING WHERE
THE ADS WERE COMING FROM, I
DON'T KNOW.
THE OTHER THING IS WHERE BOTS
COMING FROM?
>> THE LAST ELECTION THERE WERE
11,000 BOTS WORKING FOR IT FOR
THE GROUP IN QUEBEC.
AND WHO IS OPERATING THE
ACCOUNTS AND I THINK THAT IS
SOMETHING THEY COULD GET BEHIND
AND NOT RESTRICTING SPEECH.
IT'S JUST LIKE ADS ON TV.
WHO PAID FOR THE AD?
WHY ARE YOU SHOWING IT TO ME
NEXT TO THE HUDSON BAY AD ON THE
SCREEN.
REASON WHY PEOPLE DIRECT ADS AND
THE ALGORITHMS THEY USE AND THEY
THINK IF THEY SHOW US BEHIND THE
CURTAIN THAT WOULD HELP A
LITTLE.
>> Peter: LET'S SAY WE DON'T
REGULATE.
LET'S FINISH ON THIS.
HOW COULD A VOTER KNOW -- ONE OF
THE THINGS I SAID TO MYSELF AND
ONE OF THE THINGS I ASK MYSELF
WHO IS THIS SPEAKING TO
ME?
IS THAT A PLACE TO START?
WHAT CAN THE AVERAGE PERSON SAY
I WANT TO BE MORE CONCERNING
PICKING UP ESPECIALLY GETTING
INTO THE ELECTION CAMPAIGN, WHAT
DO I DO TO FIGURE OUT WHAT IS A
REAL THING AND WHAT IS NOT A
REAL THING?
HOW CAN I FIND THAT OUT?
>> LOOK, IT'S HARD.
WITHOUT A DOUBT.
YOU KNOW, WE DON'T WANT TO BRING
BACK GATE KEEPERS BUT WE NEED
MORE CURATORS.
I THINK IT'S IMPORTANT TO HAVE
IMPORTANT PEOPLE THAT ARE --
INFORMED PEOPLE THAT YOU CAN
TRUST.
SO FOLLOWING PEOPLE WHO ARE DARE
I SAY EXPERTS, RIGHT, WHICH IS
BAD WORD NOWADAYS BECAUSE NO ONE
HAS TRUST IN EXPERTS.
BUT IT'S A PART OF THE
CHALLENGE.
THE CHALLENGE IS THAT
UNFORTUNATELY ANYBODY CAN GRAB
THE MEGAPHONE.
ANYBODY CAN CREATE THE ACCOUNT
AND PUT OUT THEIR PERSPECTIVE
BUT OFTEN IT'S MISINFORMED AND
FRANKLY NOT EDUCATED VOICE.
SO THERE IS AN OPPORTUNITY FOR I
THINK CANADIANS TO REACH OUT TO
EXPERTS TO ASK THE QUESTIONS AND
TO -- GETTING BACK TO THE VERY
FIRST SEGMENT THAT YOU HAD WITH
DAVID IS THAT SOMETIMES IF IT'S
TOO CRAZY TO BE TRUE, IT'S
PROBABLY CRAZY.
WE NEED TO STOP.
>> Peter: ALL RIGHT.
MATT, WHAT IS YOUR VIEW OF IT IN
THE CONTEXT OF GUESS YOU TOUCHED
A BIT ON THE REGULATION PIECE AS
WELL.
WHAT CAN I DO AS A CONSUMER TO
KNOW WHAT IT IS THAT'S REALLY
AND WHAT IT IS THAT IS NOT?
>> I THINK WE GIVE CONSUMERS TOO
LITTLE CREDIT.
EVER SINCE THE INTERNET EXISTED
PROBABLY THE FIRST THING ON THE
INTERNET IS FAKE NEWS.
SASQUATCH SPOTTED OUTSIDE OF
SPOKANE.
>> Peter: WHAT?
THAT'S NOT TRUE.
[ Laughter ]
>> THE PROBLEM NOW IS -- AND
I'VE DEALT WITH THIS BECAUSE
I'VE BEEN TALKING TO PEOPLE FOR
A LONG TIME ABOUT IT.
VOTERS ON THE CAMPAIGN TRAIL.
PEOPLE ARE LEAVING TRADITIONAL
NEWS SOURCES BECAUSE THEY DON'T
TRUST US ANYMORE BECAUSE WE
SCREWED UP TOO MANY STORIES FROM
WMD AND FAILURE TO WARN PEOPLE
ABOUT THE CAUSES OF THE 2008
FINANCIAL CRASH AND FAILURE TO
EXPLAIN THAT CRASH TO PEOPLE
AFTERWARDS AND FAILURE TO
PREDICT DONALD TRUMP COMING.
THEY JUST DON'T TRUST US
ANYMORE.
SO THEY'RE GOING TO OTHER NEWS
SOURCES AND OTHER QUOTE UNQUOTE
NEWS SOURCES.
I THINK THE FIRST THING WE HAVE
TO DO TO BRING THE CONSUMER BACK
INTO A GOOD PLACE IS TO DO OUR
JOBS BETTER.
AND I THINK DAVID
ALLUDED TO THAT.
I THINK WE HAVE TO REGAIN THE
TRUST OF NEWS CONSUMERS.
>> Peter: JENNIFER, FINAL
COMMENT TO YOU ON THIS.
>> WELL, JUST A COMMENT ABOUT
THE TWO CLIPS THAT YOU SHOWED
THERE.
REALLY INTERESTING RESEARCH IN
THE UNITED STATES THAT SHOWS
THAT THE STUFF THAT WE FEAR THAT
IS COMING FROM THE PERIPHERY BAD
ACTORS, IT WAS -- IT'S
AMPLIFIEDED BY THE BIG ACTORS.
THAT'S WHERE THE REAL DANGER
IS.
SO AS JOURNALISTS WE HAVE TO BE
VERY CAREFUL ABOUT WHAT WE SHARE
AND THE INFORMATION THAT WE PUT
OUT THERE.
AND THE CONSPIRACY THEORIES THAT
ARE SEEPING INTO OUR FEEDS WHICH
OCCASIONALLY AS YOU KNOW SOME
JOURNALISTS FALL PRAY TO
INCLUDING HERE IN CANADA.
>> Peter: THANK YOU ALL.
YOU WILL BE BACK LATER IN THE
BROADCAST AS WELL.
WHILE WE'VE BEEN TALKING ROBERT
WRIGHT HAS BEEN LISTENING IN
FROM BERKELEY CALIFORNIA.
FORMER U.S. SECRETARY OF LABOUR
AND AUTHOR OF 15 WEEKS INCLUDING
COMMON GOOD AND TEACHES PUBLIC
POLICY AT THE UNIVERSITY OF
CALIFORNIA.
THANKS FOR BEING WITH US.
GOOD TO SEE YOU TONIGHT.
THANKS FOR TAKING TIME.
>> DELIGHTED TO BE HERE.
I ENJOYED YOUR DISCUSSION SO
FAR.
I HOPE I HAVE SOME IDEAS TO ADD
TO IT.
>> Peter: LET ME ASK YOU, WHAT
IS THE BIGGEST CONCERN ABOUT
DEMOCRACY?
>> WELL, THERE'S SO MANY
CONCERNS.
IN THE UNITED STATES, ONE OF THE
BIGGEST PROBLEMS IS MONEY IN
POLITICS.
BIG MONEY IN POLITICS.
AND A NUMBER OF RESEARCH
EMPIRICAL STUDIES HAVE SHOWN
THAT THE AVERAGE AMERICAN IN
TERMS OF AFFECTS ON ACTUAL
POLICIES AS A JUST NOW ABOUT
ZERO IMPACT RELATIVE TO LARGE
CORPORATIONS, WALL STREET AND
VERY WEALTHY PEOPLE.
SO WE ALREADY HAVE A DEMOCRATIC
CRISIS OF DEMOCRACY EVEN BEFORE
WE GET TO SOCIAL MEDIA.
>> Peter: WHAT DO YOU SEE?
YOU STUDIED A LOT OF LIBERAL
DEMOCRACIES AROUND THE WORLD?
WHAT DO YOU SEE AS THE BEST WAY
TO TRY AND BUILD TRUST AND
TRANSPARENCY IN A DEMOCRACY?
>> WELL, EDUCATION IS CRITICAL.
I MEAN, DEMOCRACY EVEN THE
FRAMERS OF THE CONSTITUTION OF
THE UNITED STATES UNDERSTOOD AND
CANADA HAS A LONG AND
DISTINGUISHED TRADITION IN THIS
RESPECT AS WELL, THE IMPORTANCE
OF AN EDUCATED POPULOUS WITH
REGARD TO HAVING A DEMOCRACY.
DEMOCRACY IS NOT JUST ABOUT
VOTING.
A DEMOCRACY IS ABOUT
DELIBERATION.
IT'S ABOUT THE QUALITY OF
DISCUSSION ABOUT ISSUES.
AND SO WE NEED TO LOOK AT OUR
EDUCATIONAL INSTITUTIONS AND
EDUCATION PROCESSES AND EXAMINE
ONCE AGAIN AND MORE IN DEPTH
THAN WE HAVE IN THE BACK GROUND
IN RECENT MEMORY WHETHER OUR
EDUCATIONAL INSTITUTIONS ARE
DOING WHAT THEY NEED TO DO
TO KEEP UP WITH ALL OF THE
CHANGES INCLUDING SOCIAL MEDIA
AND TECHNOLOGY.
YOU KNOW, ONE OF THE THINGS THAT
IN LISTENING TO THE DISCUSSION
SO FAR HAS NOT COME UP IS -- OR
AT LEAST I HAVEN'T HEARD IT IS
ALGORITHMS.
WHAT WE HAVE ARE PLATFORMS.
THESE BIG PLATFORMS ARE
DIRECTING PEOPLE TO MORE AND
MORE INFORMATION TAKING THEM
DOWN RABBIT HOLES ESSENTIALLY
TOWARDS WIDER AND WIDER
CONSPIRACY 2013 RESIDENTIAL
AREA.
THE ALGORITHMS THEMSELVES AND
BECOMING AN EDUCATED PERSON OF
ALGORITHMS IS DIFFERENT THAN
WHAT THEY SHOULD BE.
>> Peter: YOU HAVE WRITTEN
WITHOUT SHARED TRUTH DEMOCRATIC
INSTITUTION ISN'T POSSIBLE, WHAT
DO YOU MEAN?
>> WELL, UNLESS WE ALL AGREE ON
THE BASIC FACTS AND WE ALL AGREE
ON THE PROCESSES FOR DECIDING
WHAT IS TRUTH AND WHAT IS NOT
TRUTH, WE DON'T HAVE A BASELINE
FOR EVEN HAVING AN INTELLIGENT
DISCUSSION.
IT'S NOT SIMPLY A MATTER OF
BALANCING THE FLAT WORLDERS
AGAINST THE ROUND WORLDERS.
IT'S A MATTER OF UNDERSTANDING
THAT THE ROUND WORLDERS ARE
TELLING THE TRUTH.
IT'S NOT A MATTER OF RELATIVELY
HERE.
I MEAN, THERE ARE FACTS AND
LOGIC AND ANALYSIS.
THERE IS A PROCESS OF DECIDING
AND DECIPHERING WHAT IS TRUTH
AND WHAT IS NOT TRUTH.
AND BY LOSING THAT AND LOSING
RESPECT FOR THAT PROCESS, WE ARE
ACTUALLY PARTICIPATING IN THE
SACRIFICE OF DEMOCRACY.
>> Peter: YOU'VE WRITTEN A LOT
ABOUT INEQUALITY AND THE RISK OF
TOO MUCH INQUALITY TO THE
DEMOCRACIES AND THIS IS PROBABLY
APPLICABLE TO DEMOCRACIES AROUND
THE WORLD.
HOW CLOSE ARE WE TO THAT TIPPING
POINT?
>> WELL, I THINK THE BEST NEWS
AND PERHAPS THE BEST THING I CAN
SAY ABOUT THE TRUMP
ADMINISTRATION IS THAT WE HAVE
IN THE POST-WAR ERA, POST-WORLD
WAR II ERA MOST PEOPLE TODAY
HAVE TAKEN DEMOCRACY PRETTY MUCH
FOR GRANTED.
I THINK WE ARE BEING SHAKEN OUT
OF COMPLACENCY WHAT IS NOW
HAPPENING.
IN THE UNITED STATES AND MAYBE
IN CANADA AND CERTAINLY AROUND
THE WORLD IN EUROPE, MANY OF THE
BABY BOOMERS AND POST-BABY
BOMBERS WHO GREW UP
THINKING DEMOCRACY WAS A WAY OF
LIFE ARE BEGINNING TO SEE IT IS
NOT.
AND IT CANNOT BE TAKEN FOR
GRANTED.
I THINK THIS MAY BE A GOOD STEP,
A GOOD THING.
ONE OTHER POINT:  WE NEED TO
UNDERSTAND, I THINK, THAT SHARED
VALUES ABOUT NOT JUST TRUTH BUT
ALSO EQUAL OPPORTUNITY, ABOUT
WHAT A FAIR SOCIETY IS, EVEN
WHAT THE RELATIONSHIP IS BETWEEN
CAPITALISM AND DEMOCRACY NEEDS
TO BE EXPLAINED AND EXPLORED.
MATT BEFORE MENTIONED THAT IN
THE UNITED STATES THERE IS A
GREAT DEAL OF ANGER THAT DONALD
TRUMP EXPLOITED AND TO SOME
EXTENT BERNIE SANDERS THAT
EXTRAORDINARY SUCCESS IN 2016 IN
THE DEMOCRATIC PRIMARY IN THE
UNITED STATES WAS ALSO A
FUNCTION OF THAT ANGER AND THAT
 ANGER IS RELATED,
NOT DIRECTLY, I MEAN, THERE ARE
OTHER FACTORS AS WELL.
IT IS ARE LATED TO THE FACT THAT
THE MEDIAN WAGE IN THE UNITED
STATES HAS BARELY RISEN AT ALL
IN THE LAST 40 YEARS AND
ADJUSTED FOR INFLATION AND MORE
AND MORE WEALTH AND MORE AND
MORE POWER HAS MOVED UPWARDS TO
THE TOP.
WHEN PEOPLE SEE THAT FAILURE OF
CAPITALISM THAT IS DIRECTLY
RELATED TO FAILURE OF DEMOCRACY
BECAUSE WITH WEALTH COMES POWER
AND POWER TO CHANGE THE RULES OF
OF THE GAME TO ADD EVEN MORE
WEALTH AT THE TOP, THEY BECOME
DISILLUSIONED AND ARE VERY
EASILY PERSUADED THAT THE GAME
IS RIGGED BECAUSE IT IS.
>> Peter: ALL RIGHT.
THOSE ARE YOU'RE TALKING
PERSPECTIVE OF WHAT IS HAPPENING
IN THE UNITED STATES.
I THINK SOME OF THE COMMENTS YOU
MADE APPLY TO THE SAME
CONVERSATIONS WE ARE HAVING IN
THIS COUNTRY AS WELL.
LET ME FINISH ON THIS:  HOW
OPTIMISTIC ARE YOU THAT
DEMOCRACY WILL FLOURISH?
>> WELL, ON MONDAY, WEDNESDAY,
AND FRIDAY AND SOMETIMES SUNDAYS
I'M VERY OPTIMISTIC.
I HAVE MY BAD DAYS.
I THINK THAT AT LEAST IN THE
UNITED STATES WE'RE GOING TO
KNOW A LOT MORE OVER THE NEXT
YEAR AND A HALF AS WE MOVE INTO
THE GRAVITATIONAL PULL OF THE
2020 CAMPAIGN.
I DO THINK THAT THE INSTITUTIONS
OF DEMOCRACY IN CANADA IN THE
UNITED STATES IN MUCH OF EUROPE
ARE VERY STRONG.
AND I'M TALKING ABOUT THE FREE
PRESS AS WELL AS A JUDICIAL
SYSTEM AND EVEN OUR SYSTEMS OF
CHECKS AND BALANCES OR
LEGISLATION, THEY ARE STRONGER
THAN PERHAPS WE REALIZE WHEN WE
ENTERED INTO THIS, VERY ANGRY
TRUMPIAN ERA AND THE QUESTION
REALLY IS CAN THEY CONTINUE TO
SURVIVE?
IF THE DIVISIONS BECOME GREATER
AND THE ANGER ESCALATES, IF
THE -- THE THEORIES ABOUT
CONSPIRACY CONTINUE TO BE FUELED
BY PEOPLE IN VERY HIGH PLACES,
TEN THOSE DEMOCRAT INSTITUTIONS
ARE GOING TO BE TESTED TO A MUCH
GREATER EXTENSE.
 EXTENT.
AGAIN HALF THE TIME I'M
OPTIMISTIC AND WISH I COULD BE
MORE.
>> Peter: I THOUGHT I HEARD
YOU SAY MONDAY WEDNESDAY AND
FRIDAY.
>> YES.
>> Peter: SO TODAY IS
WEDNESDAY SO YOU'RE OPTIMISTIC.
THANKS FOR IT APPRECIATE IT.
>> THANKS.
>> Peter: LET'S HEAR FROM MORE
CANADIANS ABOUT SOME OF
THE PROBLEMS WITH OUR
DEMOCRACY.
>> I THINK THE FUNDAMENTAL STATE
OF DEMOCRACY IN CANADA IS GOOD.
WE HAVE SEEN IN RECENT YEARS A
FEELING BY MANY VOTERS RIGHTLY
OR WRONGLY, I BELIEVE WRONGLY,
THAT THEIR VOTE DOESN'T COUNT.
[ ♪♪♪ ]
>> I KNOW YOU HAVE CHALLENGES
WHEN IT COMES TO MY PRECIOUS
INDIGENOUS BROTHERS AND
SISTERS.
I KNOW YOU HAVE CHALLENGES WHEN
IT COMES TO WORKING PEOPLE,
PEOPLE OF COLOURS FROM JAMAICA
AND OTHER PLACES.
[ ♪♪♪ ]
>> DEMOCRACY WORKS FOR SORT OF
THE WHITE SETTLERS THAT ENTERED
THIS PART OF THE WORLD AND
ESTABLISHED THEIR OWN SYSTEM OF
GOVERNANCE AND AUTHORITY ON TOP
OF THE PRE-EXISTING SYSTEMS OF
AUTHORITY AND GOVERNANCE.
IT MEANS THAT OTHER PEOPLE WERE
SORT OF USED AT THE EXPENSE OF
THE DEVELOPMENT OF THE
ACCUMULATION OF WEALTH.
[ ♪♪♪ ]
>> THE GREATEST THREAT THAT I
SEE TO DEMOCRACY TODAY IS
ECONOMIC INEQUALITY.
WE DON'T HAVE THE ABILITY TO
PARTICIPATE IN PUBLIC LIFE IF WE
CAN'T PUT FOOD ON THE TABLE.
>> IT'S THE FEELING FROM A LOT
OF PEOPLE THAT THEY'RE NOT
GETTING THEIR SLICE OF THE PIE.
THEY AND THEIR FAMILIES ARE NOT
GETTING THAT SLICE OF THE PIE.
>> Karyn: SO WE WILL TAKE A
CLOSER LOOK AT TRUST AND TRUTH
AND VOTE IN 2019.
WE JUST HAD AN ELECTION.
ALBERTA JUST HAD AN ELECTION.
WE ARE GOING TO GO THERE.
IT'S ONE OF THE ELECTIONS WHERE
ONE THING THAT WAS CLEAR ACROSS
PARTY LINES IS THAT A LOT OF
PEOPLE IN ALBERTA DIDN'T FEEL
LIKE THEY WERE GETTING A FAIR
SHAKE FROM CANADA OR THE
ATTENTION OF CANADA.
WE WILL GO THERE NOW AND GLEN
MCINNIS IS STANDING BY.
>> HI.
WE'RE JUST ONE DAY OUT OF THE
PROVINCIAL ELECTION HERE IN THE
PROVINCE OF ALBERTA.
WE HAVE GUESTS OF COURSE HERE AT
THE CANO THEATRE IN
FORT MCMURRAY ALBERTA FOLLOWING
THE CONVERSATION AND LISTENING
IN.
ONE OF THOSE GUESTS JOINS ME NOW
ROB BY IS A LOCAL BUSINESSMAN.
AS YOU CAN SEE AN OIL SANDS
ACTIVISTS.
HELLO.
>> MY.
>> MY QUESTION TO YOU IS WHY ARE
YOU HERE?
WHY DO YOU THINK IT'S IMPORTANT
TO GET INVOLVED IN THIS
CONVERSATION TONIGHT?
>> WELL, I'M VERY GRATEFUL THAT
WE LIVE IN CANADA.
AND AS BAD AS WE THINK WE HAVE
IT, WE ARE BETTER THAN MOST
PLACES IN THE WORLD.
HOWEVER, I'M DEEPLY CONCERNED AT
THE DISCONNECT FROM DIFFERENT
REGIONS IN THE COUNTRY AND
CONCERNED THAT CERTAIN BENEFITS
BENEFIT FROM OTHER PROVINCES
WITHOUT HELPING PROVINCES IN
PIPELINES AND CASES OF APPROVAL
AND THAT TYPE OF STUFF.
OVER ALL I'M OPTIMISTIC AND
WE'RE IN DANGEROUS TIME AND
PEOPLE THAT ARE YOUNGER DON'T
UNDERSTAND HOW GOOD THEY HAVE IT
AND THEY'RE RISKING SCREWING IT
UP.
AT THE SAME TIME I'M GRATEFUL
WHERE WE ARE.
BUT WE'RE SUCH A BIG COUNTRY AND
WE'RE THE SECOND LARGEST LAND
MASS IN THE WORLD WITH THE SMALL
POPULATION.
I DON'T THINK WE UNDERSTAND EACH
OTHER LIKE WE SHOULD AND FAIR
TOO MANY INFLUENCES AND NOT JUST
UNITED STATES BUT IN GENERAL AND
EVERYTHING HAPPENS THERE AND WE
NEED TO FOCUS ON OURSELVES.
>> I WANT TO ASK YOU WHAT IS
GOING ON ON THE GROUND IN
ALBERTA.
HOW ARE ALBERTANS FEELING?
DO TAY FEEL THEY BENEFITING FROM
DEMOCRACY IN THIS COUNTRY OR
ALBERTAN FEELING ALIENATED WHAT
DO YOU FEEL.
>> ALLEE YES NATION WE HAVE LOST
OVER A HUNDRED THOUSAND JOBS AND
YOU HEAR THEM WORRIED ABOUT SNC
FOR 8,000 JOBS AND BREAK RULES
AND GET RID OF THE ATTORNEY
GENERAL AND DO ALL THESE
THINGS.
THE AMOUNT OF TRANSFER PAYMENTS
WITH WE PAY TO QUEBEC.
WHY IS ALBERTA NOT LIKE NORWAY
BECAUSE OF THAT MONEY?
QUEBEC GETS HUNDREDS OF BILLIONS
OF DOLLARS FROM US.
IT'S NOT FAIR.
I DON'T THINK WE'RE AGREEDY.
I THINK ALBERTA IS THE LAND OF
OPPORTUNITY.
PEOPLE COME FROM NEWFOUNDLAND
AND ONTARIO AND QUEBEC TO WORK
HERE AND MAKE BETTER LIVES.
AT THE SAME TIME, WE NEED A
PIPELINE.
AND QUEBEC HAS NO PROBLEM TAKING
OUR MONEY AND SAME WITH BRITISH
COLUMBIA AND PEOPLE LIVING IN BC
COME TO WORK HERE BUT NOT
HELPING US HELP THEM BE
SUCCESSFUL.
AND I THINK THAT THAT IS THE
BIGGEST PROBLEM.
WE WANT TO TALK ABOUT FOREIGN
INFLUENCES.
WELL, THE ROCKEFELLER FOUNDATION
SPENT MILLIONS A AND MILLIONS OF
DOLLARS TRYING TO INFLUENCE OUR
ENERGY INDUSTRY TO STOP US
GETTING THE OIL TO MARKET.
IN THE MEAN TIME THE UNITED
STATES COME TO THE BIGGEST
COMPETITOR AND BUILT ENOUGH
PIPELINES TO GET AROUND THE
WORLD TWICE.
WE'RE NOT ABLE TO GET OUR OIL TO
MARKET BUT OKAY FOR THEM TO.
THERE'S A LOT OF THINGS
HAPPENING THAT I THINK ALBERTANS
ARE TIRED UP AND CONSIDERING
WHAT WE CONTRIBUTE TO THE
COUNTRY WE DON'T GET THE FAIR
SHARE.
AT THE SAME TIME I'M GRATEFUL I
LIVE IN CANADA AND WE HAVE THE
ABILITY TO VOTE PEOPLE OUT.
I WISH TOGETHER WE HAVE A BETTER
CONVERSATION TO UNDERSTAND THE
CHALLENGES ACROSS THE COUNTRY.
>> LET ME ASK YOU THIS:  WHO DO
YOU THINK DEMOCRACY WORKS FOR?
>> I THINK DEMOCRACY WORKS FOR
EVERYBODY.
AND IT BENEFITS MORE PEOPLE THAT
HAVE MONEY AND INFLUENCE.
AT THE END OF THE DAY WE CAN SAY
WHAT WE WANT.
THERE IS PROGRAMS FOR PEOPLE.
WE HAVE TO BE GRATEFUL.
THIS PROVINCIAL ELECTION HERE.
THE NDP GOT IN LAST TIME AND
DEMOCRACY WORKED AND THEY DIDN'T
WANT NDP AND JASON KENNEY GOT
IN.
I THINK SOCIAL MEDIA IS THE
GREATEST THING IN THE WORLD.
AND WAYS TO INFLUENCE SOCIAL
MEDIA AND PROVIDES PEOPLE WITH A
PLATFORM THAT TYPICALLY WOULDN'T
HAVE A PLATFORM.
I THINK WE'RE LUCKY AND AGREE
WITH WHAT THE ONE LADY SAID IF
I'M CONFUSED ABOUT SOMETHING I
WILL GO TO CBC OR CTV AND CHECK
THAT STUFF OUT.
THERE'S THE REBEL AND THEY HAVE
A PURPOSE AS WELL.
TONS OF NEWS THINGS IN THE
COUNTRY THAT I THINK SERVICE
BETTER THAN THE UNITED STATES.
WE'RE LESS POLARIZED.
BUT BOTTOM LINE IS PEOPLE WANT
TO FEED THEIR FAMILIES.
IF THEY FEEL THEY CAN'T DO THAT,
THAT'S A PROBLEM.
I FEEL THERE IS A BIT OF A
DISCONNECT ESPECIALLY IN OTTAWA
TO UNDERSTAND WHAT IS GOING ON
IN SMALL TOWNS IN ONTARIO,
ALBERTA OR WHERE EVER.
BUT THAT -- I THINK THAT CAN BE
FIXED IF WE SPEND MORE TIME
FOCUSING ON OURSELVES AND LESS
ON TRUMP AND WHAT IS GOING ON IN
THE UNITED STATES AND MORE ABOUT
GETTING OUR RESOURCES TO MARKET
AND BUILDING OUR INDUSTRY.
>> ROBERT, PICKARD, I WANT TO
THANK YOU FOR JOINING US TONIGHT
AND WISH YOU BEST OF LUCK IN
EVERYTHING YOU DO.
>> THANK YOU.
>> BACK TO YOU IN TORONTO.
>> Peter: THANK YOU VERY MUCH
GLEN MCINNIS AND FORT MCMURRAY
ALBERTA AND LOTS OF PERSPECTIVES
BROUGHT TO THE CONVERSATION HERE
IN THE DEMOCRACY LIVE TOWN HALL
TONIGHT FROM TORONTO, BUT
INCLUDING HALIFAX AS WELL.
AND IF YOU WANT TO BE PART OF
THE CONVERSATION, YOU CAN DO
THAT.
JUST FOLLOW THE #DEMOCRACY LIVE
AND YOU CAN HAVE YOUR SAY AS
WELL.
I'M HERE WITH MIKE, THE RESEARCH
DIRECTOR.
GOOD TO SEE YOU.
>> GOOD TO SEE YOU.
>> Peter: ONE OF THE DEMOCRACY
PARTNERS AND YOU RELEASED YOUR
360 REPORT ON CITIZEN ENGAGEMENT
AND YOU HAVE SHOWN THAT
CANADIANS ARE PRIMED TO BE PART
OF DEMOCRACY.
LET'S START THERE AND WHAT
CANADIANS ARE THINKING ABOUT.
THE LEVEL OF SATISFACTION AND
HOW DEMOCRACY WORKS, WHAT DID
YOU FIND?
>> WHAT SURPRISINGLY WE HAVE
FOUND THAT CANADIANS AT LEAST
RECENTLY ARE BECOMING MORE
SATISFIED HOW THE DEMOCRACY
WORKS.
WE SURVEYED CANADIANS ABOUT A
YEAR OUT FROM THE LAST FEDERAL
ELECTION IN 2015 ABOUT 65% OF
CANADIANS WERE SATISFIED WITH
DEMOCRACY.
>> Peter: IT'S GONE UP.
>> IT'S GONE UP.
WE ASKED THE QUESTION JANUARY OF
THIS YEAR AND 75%.
SIGNIFICANT JUMP IN THE SAME
WINDOW WHEN SATISFACTION IN
DEMOCRACY HAS BEEN FRANKLY
PLUMMETING IN OTHER PLACES LIKE
OURS LIKE THE UK AND U.S. AND
AUSTRALIA.
AND IN OUR OWN COUNTRY TELLING
OUR OWN STORY AND EVERYBODY
EVEN HAVING SAID THAT WE
ARE FINDING DEEP AND ABIDING
LEVELS OF CYNICISM AND
SKEPTICISM AND DISAFFECTION AS
WELL.
>> Peter: NOT EVERY ONE IS
SATISFIED.
LET'S LOOK AT THE OTHER
FINDINGS.
WE HAVE A PIECE OF TAPE TO SHOW
PEOPLE AND THEN WE WILL COME
BACK.
[ ♪♪♪ ]
>> I DON'T
THINK I TRUST POLITICIANS.
>> THEY DON'T NECESSARILY LISTEN
TO THE PEOPLE.
>> YOU KNOW, THE GREED TAKES
OVER.
>> THEY JUST SAY THINGS TO MAKE
PEOPLE HAPPY.
[ ♪♪♪ ]
>> I THINK THERE'S A LOT OF
PANDERING GOING ON TO SMALL
MINORITY GROUPS AND SETTING
PRECEDENT OVER THE MAJORITY OF
THE POPULATION.
[ ♪♪♪ ]
>> Peter: ALL RIGHT.
SO SOME MORE INFORMATION ON YOUR
FINDINGS THERE.
WHAT DOES ALL OF THIS MEAN FOR
THE DEMOCRACY MOVING FORWARD?
>> WELL, I MEAN WE HAVE SOME
PROBLEMS.
CLEAR MAJORITY OF CANADIANS
THINK THAT THE GOVERNMENT
DOESN'T CARE ABOUT THEM.
ABOUT 65% THINK THAT THE MPs
ARE OUT OF TOUCH.
THAT'S BAD.
THOSE NUMBERS ARE WAY TOO HIGH.
I THINK IT'S IMPORTANT TO NOTE
THAT WE HAVE SEEN THOSE NUMBERS
COME DOWN OVER TIME.
SOME OF THESE MEASURES OF
POLITICAL DISCONTENT PEAK IN THE
90s AND RESEEDING SOMEWHAT
SINCE.
I ONLY SAY THAT BECAUSE I THINK
WE HAVE TO BE CAREFUL ASSUMING
THAT WE HAVE CROSSED A THRESHOLD
AND POPULOUS REVOLUTION IS
COMING.
NEVERTHELESS WAY TOO MUCH
POLITICAL DISCONNECT.
>> Peter: THE LAST GRAPHIC AND
46% OF CANADIANS THINK IT'S --
ARE SAYING THEY THINK THAT
DEMOCRACY IS GETTING WEAKER.
>> YEAH.
THIS IS A PROBLEM.
WE ALSO FOUND EVEN WHEN WE'RE
SATISFIED IT'S TRAGEDY JAIL
SATISFACTION AND WE FOUND IN THE
MIDST OF THE SNC-LAVALIN
CONTROVERSY SATISFACTION OF
DEMOCRACY COME DOWN WHERE IT WAS
IN JANUARY.
THERE IS FRAGILITY THERE AND
OBVIOUSLY CANADIANS ARE WORRIED
AND WE NEED TO BE ASKING
OURSELVES WHY NEARLY A MAJORITY
OF CANADIANS THINK THAT
DEMOCRACY IS GETTING WEAKER AND
WHAT WE CAN DO TO RESTORE OUR
FAITH IN ONE ANOTHER AND IN OUR
FUTURE AS A DEMOCRACY.
>> Peter: THANK YOU FOR YOUR
TIME TONIGHT.
>>> JUST BEFORE WE GO TO THE
PANEL TO TALK ABOUT THIS.
LET'S BRING YOU UP TO DATE ON
WHAT THE AUDIENCE IS SAYING IN
THE ROOM IN TORONTO AND IN
HALIFAX AND FORT MCMURRAY.
WE HAVE ASKED THEM TO WEIGH IN.
IS CANADA MORE DID SITED OR
UNITED AS A COUNTRY?
>> 53.7% OF THE AUDIENCE
SURVEYED SAYS DIVIDED.
28% SAID UNITED.
AND UNSHIRE 17.9%.
CAN CANADIAN DEMOCRACY GROW
STRONGER THIS YEAR IN 2019?
ALMOST 90% SAY YES AND 11% SAY
NO.
LET'S GO TO KARYN NOW.
>> Karyn: THANKS.
DAVID, LET ME START WITH YOU.
WHY DO YOU THINK THAT ALMOST
HALF OF CANADIANS THINK THAT
DEMOCRACY IS GETTING WEAKER?
>> IF YOU ASK ANY GROUP OF
PEOPLE ANY QUESTION, 20% OF
PEOPLE ARE GOING TO ANSWER IN
THE NEGATIVE.
[ Laughter ]
ALSO A GROUP OF PEOPLE AND YOU
ASK HOW ON EARTH COULD THAT MANY
PEOPLE THINK THAT WAY?
I HAVE NEWS FOR YOU, ALWAYS THAT
MANY PEOPLE THINKING THAT WAY.
WHAT IT INDICATES TO ME WILL IS
A CONCERN THAT THE FUNDAMENTALS
OF OUR DEMOCRACY ARE FRAUGHT AND
MORE FRAGILE THAN YOU MIGHT
THINK.
AND THE LONG HISTORY OF
DEMOCRACY IS THE LONG HISTORY OF
US WORKING FOR IT BUILDING IT
OUT, MAKING IT MORE INCLUSIVE
AND THEN IT FALLING APART.
THE CURRENT EXPERIMENT WITH
LIBERAL DEMOCRACY IS
UNPRECEDENTED.
MASS DEMOCRACY THROUGHOUT THE
WORLD DEEPLY INCLUSIVE.
WE'VE NEVER DONE THAT BEFORE.
THERE'S NO GUARANTEE IT'S GOING
TO WORK.
WE'RE BIASED TO THINK IT'S GOING
TO WORK.
WE CAN'T POSSIBLY LOSE IT.
REMEMBER THE AFTER MATH OF THE
FALL OF THE SOVIET UNION
AND THE WORLD WAS DEMOCRAT AND
IT IS OVER.
AND MAYBE IT IS NOT OVER AND
THERE WAS A FUTURE SITUATION IN
WHICH THAT DEMOCRACY DOESN'T
REIGN ANYMORE.
HUNDRED YEARS AGO DEMOCRACY
WASN'T THAT COMMON.
SO I THINK PEOPLE ARE
PICKING UP ON THE FACT THAT WE
COULD LOSE ALL OF THIS.
I'M PEACES MESS TICK AND
CONCERNED WHEN THE RISK OF
CLIMATE CHANGE ARRIVES ON ALL OF
THIS IT LOOKS DISCONCERTING.
>> Karyn: DO YOU THINK IT'S
FEAR OR FRUSTRATION?
WE JUST HEARD FROM A LOT OF
PEOPLE THAT SAY POLITICIANS
DON'T LISTEN AND WE HEARD FROM
ALBERTA THAT OTTAWA DOESN'T
LISTEN?
>> WHAT YOU GET SOMETIMES IS
QUESTIONS BECOME PROXY WITH
SOMETHING ELSE.
ARE YOU SATISFIED WITH DEMOCRACY
MIGHT BE A PROXY THAT PEOPLE
DON'T EVEN THOUGH THEY'RE
SUBSTITUTING FOR DO YOU LIKE THE
CURRENT GOVERNMENT OR ARE YOU
DOING WELL ECONOMICALLY,
ET CETERA ET CETERA?
WHEN THINGS ARE PEAR SHAPED
IT GOES DOWN WARD BECAUSE THEY
ARE VOICING CONCERNS.
IT'S NOT A SINGLE CONCERN THAT
PEOPLE ARE EXPRESSING, IT'S
PROBABLY A NUMBER OF THINGS.
IF THE NUMBERS ARE GOING UP IT'S
SHOWING A DEEP ANXIETY FROM
PROBABLY A FEE PLACES.
AGAIN, AS LONG AS THINGS ARE
FUNDAMENTALLY OKAY, THAT'S
FINE.
IF BROADER INSTITUTIONAL DECAY
HAS SET IN, THAT IT HAS BROADER
GLOBAL TRENDS ARE DISCONCERTING
THAT THEY ARE AND WE ARE FACING
THE UNPRECEDENTED CLIMATE CHANGE
AND THOSE NUMBERS ARE
POTENTIALLY CATASTROPHIC.
>> Karyn: HAYDEN --
>> NOT TO BE TOO CYNICAL OR
PESSIMISTIC OF COURSE.
[ Laughter ]
>> Karyn: THANK YOU FOR
BRIGHTENING THAT UP.
HAYDEN, WHAT DO YOU THINK?
IS DEMOCRACY GETTING WEAKER?
>> IS DEMOCRACY -- I DON'T
KNOW.
FROM MY PERSPECTIVE, DEMOCRACY
THE WAY WE'VE BEEN DESCRIBING IT
HERE AND THE ASSUMPTIONS THAT
WE'VE BEEN MAKING HERE THAT
WE'RE ALL ONE HOMOGENOUS
POLITICAL COMMUNITY NEVER REALLY
RESONATED WITH ME AND I DON'T
THINK IT RESONATES WITH ME AND I
DON'T THINK IT RESONATES WITH
INDIGENOUS PEOPLE IN CANADA
WHERE WE HAVE BEEN
DISENFRANCHISED FROM DEMOCRACY,
THE INSTITUTIONS, AND THE
PROCESSES OF DEMOCRACY IS REALLY
ONLY UNTIL 1961 THAT NATIVE
PEOPLE COULD VOTE FEDERALLY IN
ELECTIONS AND SINCE THEN ONGOING
DISENFRANCHISEMENT AND CANADIANS
HAVE ELECTED 23 PRIME MINISTERS
DOUBLE THE AMOUNT OF GOVERNMENTS
THAT CONTINUE TO DISCRIMINATE
AND MARGINALIZE AND PUSH
INDIGENOUS PEOPLE OUT OF THE
WAY.
AND YOU KNOW THERE WAS THIS
INTERESTING DATA THAT WAS
PRESENTED AND 40% OF CANADIANS
THINK THAT MAJORITY SHOULD
PREVAIL EVEN IF IT RISKS THE
INTERESTS OF THE MINORITY AND I
THINK REALLY THE FUNDAMENTAL
PROBLEM OF DEMOCRACY IN CANADA
IS CANADIANS FROM AN INDIGENOUS
PERSPECTIVE.
[ Laughter ]
BECAUSE THOSE INTERESTS ARE
ALWAYS GOING TO CLASH.
THE MAJORITY'S INTERESTS ARE
ALWAYS GOING TO BE DIFFERENT
FROM THE INTERESTS OF INDIGENOUS
PEOPLE.
SO THIS IS A DIFFICULT QUESTION
FOR ME TO ANSWER.
ACTUALLY IT'S A VERY EASY
QUESTION TO ANSWER THAT I DON'T
HAVE A LOT OF TRUST OR FAITH IN
THE TYPE OF DEMOCRACY THAT WE
WERE DISCUSSING HERE.
NOW, WE CAN TALK ABOUT THE
OLDEST DEMOCRACY IN THE PLANET
IN 1982 AND THE HODO CONFEDERACY
AND I HAVE FAITH IN THOSE FORMS
AND SYSTEMS.
>> Karyn: THEY EXIST ON SOME
LEVEL AND NOT RECOGNIZED BY THE
CANADIAN GOVERNMENT
NECESSARILY.
>> THE CANADIAN GOVERNMENT
ACTIVELY TRIES TO EXTINGUISH
THEM.
>> Karyn: SO I WANT TO PICK UP
ON SOMETHING THAT HAYDEN SAID.
60% DISAGREE AND 40% AGREE THAT
THE WILL OF THE MAJORITY SHOULD
ALWAYS PREVAIL EVEN OVER THE
RIGHTS OF MAJORITY -- OR
MINORITIES.
HOW TO YOU INTERPRET THAT?
>> WELL, I MEAN, I THINK I'LL BE
HONEST I THINK THAT THIS IS
OFTEN THROUGH THE LENS OF WHITE
CANADIANS.
AND ITS COMES AT THE EXPENSE OF
WHAT PEOPLE THINK OF WHAT THEY
THINK WHEN THEY THINK MINORITY
WHICH ARE IMMIGRANTS.
THAT'S REALLY TROUBLING.
YOU KNOW, WITH THE RISE OF ALT
RIGHT POPULISM AND VERY STRONG
ANTI-IMMIGRANT SENTIMENT
THROUGHOUT EUROPE I FEEL THIS IS
COMINGER HOO.
 COMING HERE.
WE HAVE SEEN IT IN THE INCIDENTS
OF HATE CRIMES IN THE COUNTRY
AND SEEN IT IN THE INCIDENTS OF
MICRO AGGRESSIONS IN THE
COUNTRY.
WE HAVE A CHALLENGE.
I THINK WE ARE TOO COMPLAISANT
BECAUSE WE HAVE THIS IDEALIZED
IMAGE OF THIS COUNTRY.
IT IS A BEAUTIFUL COUNTRY.
BUT WE OVER ROMANTICIZED THE
UNITY AND THERE ARE FORCES,
PARTICULARLY EXTERNAL FOREIGNS
THAT ARE FUNDING AND AIDING AND
AMPLIFYING THE VOICES OF CERTAIN
INDIVIDUALS THAT WANT TO SEE
THIS COUNTRY FAIL.
THAT'S REALLY PROBLEMATIC TO
ME.
I THINK THAT THAT PARTICULAR
POLL REALLY SAYS THAT WE ARE
GOING DOWN THAT PATH THAT I SEE
EUROPE GOING DOWN TODAY WHERE
THE DIVISIONS BETWEEN IMMIGRANTS
AND NON-IMMIGRANT IN PARTICULAR
IS SO PROBLEMATIC THAT IT IS
TEARING THE COUNTRY APART.
SO WE CAN'T BE -- IT'S JUST THIS
COUNTRY IS TOO VALUABLE TO BE
COMPLAISANT FRANKLY.
>> Karyn: JENNIFER, I WANTED
TO ASK YOU, ARE CANADIAN
INSTITUTIONS STRONG ENOUGH TO
WITHSTAND THESE INTERNAL
CHALLENGES THAT WE'RE FACING?
>> I THINK ON THE WHOLE, YES,
BUT THERE'S SO MUCH ROOM FOR
IMPROVEMENT.
AND I MEAN PARLIAMENT IS MAYBE
THE ONE THAT WE SHOULD START
WITH.
SO AS I MENTIONED EARLIER --
WELL, ONE THING IS PLAINLY NOT
ENOUGH WOMEN IN PARLIAMENT.
PARLIAMENT IS NOT REFLECTIVE OF
CANADIAN SOCIETY.
NOT ENOUGH RACIALIZED PEOPLE IN
PARLIAMENT AND INDIGENOUS
PEOPLE.
ALSO, OUR MPs DON'T HAVE
ENOUGH POWER VIS-A-VIS THE
CENTRE, THEIR LEADERS.
AND THERE'S BEEN EFFORTS TO
REBALANCE THAT.
BUT, YOU KNOW, SO FAR IT HASN'T
BEEN ABLE TO GET VERY FAR.
AND I THINK IT'S BECAUSE ONCE A
PARTY IS IN POWER THE PEOPLE IN
CHARGE DON'T WANT TO RELINQUISH
ANY OF THAT POWER TO THE MEMBERS
SO WE'RE SORT OF IN THIS ENDLESS
SPIRAL.
BUT THERE THINGS THAT COULD BE
DONE.
UNFORTUNATELY WE DIDN'T GET FAR
WITH EXAMINING THE ELECTORAL
SYSTEM IS AND POTENTIAL FOR
PROPORTIONAL REPRESENTATION AND
SO ON.
ALL OF THOSE THINGS.
BUT YOU KNOW TO ALLEGATION GET
BACK TO WHAT THE INSTITUTION
THAT I KNOW MOST ABOUT IN
DEMOCRACY IS THE MEDIA --
>> Karyn: THEY SAID THAT IN
THE BUDGET --
>> I THINK THAT WE HAVE A LOT OF
SOUL SEARCHING TO DO AS AN
DEMOCRATIC INSTITUTION AND
TOUCHING ON WHAT HAYDEN WAS
SAYING I THINK THAT WE IN THE
MEDIA HAVE LOOKED AT CANADA
THROUGH A PARTICULAR LENS FOR A
LONG TIME.
AND WE'RE STARTING NOT FAST
ENOUGH BUT SLOWLY TO TRY TO
CHANGE OUR PERSPECTIVES TO
INCLUDE MORE PEOPLE IN THE
NEWSROOMS.
BUT IT'S PA THREATICALLY --
STILL A PATHETIC SITUATION.
BUT TO BE MORE THOUGHTFUL ABOUT
DIFFERENT PERSPECTIVES IN CANADA
AND THAT ALSO I HAVE TO SAY ALSO
INCLUDES SOCIAL CONSERVATIVE
PERSPECTIVES.
IT INCLUDES PEOPLE ON THE LEFT.
IT INCLUDES INDIGENOUS PEOPLE.
IT INCLUDES RACIALIZED
CANADIANS.
IT HAS TO EVOLVE MUCH QUICKER
THAN IT HAS.
BUT IF WE REALLY WANT MEDIA TO
BE A STRONG INSTITUTION,
DEMOCRATIC INSTITUTION IN
CANADA, WE HAVE TO FIX THOSE
THINGS INSIDE OUR INDUSTRY.
>> Karyn: OKAY, THANK YOU FOR
THAT.
WELL, WE GO TO A BIT OF TAPE
NOW.
NEXT, ONE OF CANADA'S BEST KNOWN
COMPEDDIANS JOKING ASIDE HE'S
ACTUALLY PRETTY SERIOUS ON
DEMOCRACY.
HE SITS ON THE BOARD OF SAMARA
CENTRE OF DEMOCRACY AND WE ASKED
WHAT DEMOCRACY MEANS IN 2019.
[ ♪♪♪ ]
>> I'M RICK MERCER FROM St.
JOHN'S NEWFOUNDLAND.
THE BIGGEST CHALLENGE FACING
CANADIAN DEMOCRACY ALL DEMOCRACY
ANYWHERE IN THE WORLD IS
COMPLACENCY AND INDIVIDUAL'S
COMPLACENCY AND PEOPLE WHO WALK
AROUND AND SAY I DON'T VOTE
BECAUSE IT DOESN'T MATTER.
IT ONLY WORKS IF EVERY ONE IS
ENGAGED.
CITIZENS, THEY'RE THE GAS IN THE
TANK.
WITHOUT THE GAS, IT DOESN'T
WORK.
THERE'S NO DOUBT ABOUT IT THAT
MANY CANADIANS THINK THAT THE
MPs ARE IN IT FOR THEMSELVES
AND GOVERNMENT DOESN'T LISTEN TO
THE PEOPLE AND SAY IT DOESN'T
MATTER WHO YOU VOTE FOR, THEY'RE
ALL THE SAME.
I WOULD SUGGEST IF YOU FEEL THAT
WAY YOU HAVE TO GET ENGAGED AND
YOU CAN FIRE THOSE PEOPLE AND
REPLACE THOSE PEOPLE.
BUT THAT'S THE SECRET.
DEMOCRACY WILL ONLY GROW
STRONGER IF MORE CANADIANS GET
ENGAGED.
THAT MAY SOUND TEDIOUS.
DOESN'T MEAN THAT YOU HAVE TO
STUDY WHAT IS GOING ON IN OTTAWA
OR YOUR PROVINCIAL CAPITAL EVE
SINGLE NIGHT.
YOU JUST NEED A LITTLE BIT OF
ENGAGEMENT IF THAT IS TEDIOUS
I'M SORRY THAT IS THE PRICE OF
ADMISSION TO ONE OF THE GREATEST
DEMOCRACYS IN THE PLANET.
THAT'S THE ADVICE FOR CANADIANS
YOU NEED TO DO THE HEAVY LIFTING
AND GET OUT AND PARTICIPATE AND
GET OUT AND VOTE AND GET
INFORMED.
LET ME GET YOU AN UP DATE OF THE
TWEETS FROM PEOPLE EXPRESSING
THEIR POINT OF VIEW AS WELL.
HERE IS ONE FROM POLITICAL
CUPID.
I LIKE THAT.
OUR POLITICIANS SET THE TONE.
WHEN THEY ACT LIKE COMMON TROLLS
WHY SHOULD THE REST OF SOCIETY
BEHAVE?
ONCE UPON A TIME THEY WERE HELD
TO HIGHER STANDARD BECAUSE OF
PUBLIC TRUST.
WHEN ANYBODY WITH A PULSE IS
ALLOWED TO VOTE, DEMOCRACY
DOESN'T WORK.
VOTING NEEDS TO BE RESTRICTED
FROM THE INCOMPETENT
ELECTORATE.
MOST PEOPLE ARE NOT LEADERS THEY
ARE FOLLOWERS AND HAVE NO
BUSINESS VOTING.
DIFFERENT PERSPECTIVES FOR YOU
AND GET MORE PERSPECTIVES AND GO
BACK TO THE REMOTE AUDIENCE IN
HALIFAX, NOVA SCOTIA.
LET'S GO BACK THERE.
>> HI.
WE'RE BACK HERE IN NOVA SCOTIA
AND I'M HERE WITH KATE
MACDONALD.
HOW ARE YOU.
>> I'M GOOD THANKS HOW ARE YOU.
>> I'M GOOD.
HOW ARE YOU.
>> NOT TOO BAD.
>> YOU HAVE SOME THOUGHTS FOR
THE PANEL.
>> I THINK THE PANEL IS
INTERESTING AND DEMOCRACY THE
SYSTEM OF GOVERNMENT THAT AIMS
TO INVOLVE THE WHOLE POPULATION
VOICE OR ELIGIBLE MEMBERS OF THE
STATE AND WE LOOK AT WHO IS
ELIGIBLE AND WE HAVE
CONVERSATIONS OF SYSTEMIC RACISM
AND WHO IS MADE INELIGIBLE OF
SYSTEMIC RACE OF THE GOVERNMENT
AND ALL OTHER SYSTEMS THAT ARE
GOVERNMENT RUN.
>> OKAY.
I WANTED TO FIND OUT WHAT DO YOU
THINK OF THE PEOPLE IN HALIFAX
THINK ABOUT THIS CONVERSATION IN
GENERAL?
>> WELL, I THINK THERE ARE TWO
BIG WORDS THAT HAVE BEEN
DISCUSSED THIS EVENING WHICH ARE
TRUTH AND TRUST.
AND I THINK THAT THERE ARE A LOT
OF SYSTEMS THAT OPERATE HERE IN
HALIFAX AND IN NOVA SCOTIA THAT
REQUIRE GAINING A LOT MORE
COMMUNITY TRUST AND EXPOSING A
LOT MORE TRUTH TO THE RESIDENTS
THAT LIVE HERE.
>> CAN YOU EXPAND ON THE TRUST
ASPECT A LITTLE BIT MORE?
>> WELL, WHEN WE'RE LOOKING AT
THE CRIMINAL JUSTICE SYSTEM I
THINK THERE'S A CERTAIN LEVEL OF
TRUST THAT NEEDS TO BE REGAINED
BACK FROM A MULTITUDE OF
COMMUNITIES AND WE HAD A STREET
CHECK RELEASED BY SCOTT WARTLY
AND YOUNG BLACK MEN FROM THE
AGES OF 178 AND 35 WERE SIX
TIMES MORE STOPPED BY THE POLICE
AND 12 YEAR SPAN WE SAW THE ONE
THIRD OF THE POPULATION CATCH A
CRIMINAL CHARGE AND MAKE THEM
INELIGIBLE FROM PARTICIPATING IN
DEMOCRACY.
BACK TO YOU.
>> THANK YOU.
>> Peter: WE WILL NOT SPEND
MUCH TIME IN TORONTO AND TAKE IT
BACK OUT TO FORT MCMURRAY AND MY
COLLEAGUE GLEN MCINNIS AND HAS
MORE REACTION FROM FORT MAC
GLEN.
>> THANK YOU VERY MUCH PETER.
RIGHT NOW I'M JOINED BY ONE OF
THE AUDIENCE MEMBERS FRANCIS.
YOU WORK AND LIVE HERE IN
FORT MCMURRAY.
>> YES.
>> WHAT IS YOUR QUESTION.
>> I THINK IT'S A SENTIMENT THAT
A LOT OF THE YOUNGER POPULATION
DOESN'T COME OUT AND VOTE.
I THINK THE VIEWPOINT FROM MANY
OF US THAT THE VOICES AND
CONCERNS AREN'T USUALLY HEARD OR
TALKED ABOUT WHEN ELECTION
PERIOD COMES AROUND.
LIKE, WHAT ARE THE THINGS THAT
PEOPLE CAN DO OR LEADERS IN
GENERAL CAN DO TO HELP ADDRESS
THIS ISSUE?
>> YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT THE
YOUNGER POPULATION THAT JUST
DON'T SEEM TO GET OUT AND THEY
WOULD MAKE A BIGGER
A BIG
DIFFERENCE IF THEY GOT OUT AND
VOTE.
>> YES, I WOULD AGREE.
ESPECIALLY WHEN THE DOWN TURN
HAPPENED A LOT OF YOUNGER
MILLENNIALS DIDN'T HAVE JOBS
AFTER UNIVERSITY OR BUYING
HOUSES ARE DIFFICULT COMPARED TO
SAY OUR PARENT'S GENERATIONS AND
WE DON'T NECESSARILY SEE A LOT
OF THOSE ISSUES BEING TALKED
ABOUT WHEN IT COMES TO ELECTION
OR DEBATE SEASON.
>> I MIGHT ASK YOU THINK,
FRANCIS:  WHAT ARE IDEAS OFF THE
TOP OF YOUR HEAD THAT YOU MAY
HAVE TO GET MORE YOUNGER PEOPLE
INSPIRED AND GET OUT THERE AND
CAST THEIR BALLOT AND VOTE?
>> WELL, I DEFINITELY THINK THIS
YEAR, THE ALBERTA ELECTION THEY
MADE PREREGISTERING THE EARLY
VOTE A LOT EASIER.
I THINK THAT WAS A STEP MADE
EASIER FOR ME TO COME OUT AND
VOTE.
GOING SOMETHING IF POSSIBLE WITH
ONLINE PLATFORM.
I KNOW THAT'S WHERE A LOT OF US
DO OUR DAY-TO-DAY ACTIVITIES,
DOING SOMETHING LIKE THAT WOULD
ALSO BE ENCOURAGING AND HAVING
SOMEBODY THAT ACTUALLY SPEAKS TO
SOME OF THE CONCERNS AND ISSUES
THAT WE ACTUALLY CARE ABOUT.
>> WHAT ARE YOUR THOUGHTS ON
SOCIAL MEDIA AND HOW IT APPLIES
TO YOUNG PEOPLE AND POLITICS AND
VOTING AND BECOMING POLITICALLY
AWARE?
>> I THINK A LOT OF US ACTUALLY
USE SOCIAL MEDIA QUITE A BIT.
I KNOW SOME PEOPLE WHO ARE MAYBE
MORE FAMILIAR OF THE DIFFERENT
TYPES OF FALSE ADVERTISING THAT
CAN HAPPEN ON SOCIAL MEDIA.
WE DO TRY TO VET IT MORE WITH
ACTUAL NEWS STATIONS OR NEWS
ARTICLES.
BUT SOME PEOPLE DON'T
NECESSARILY HAVE THE TIME.
SO I KNOW FOR LIKE MAYBE MORE OF
MY GENERATION THE SOCIAL MEDIA
DOES IMPACT A LOT OF THE
VIEWPOINTS THAT WE DO HAVE.
>> WELL, FRANCIS, I WANT TO
THANK YOU VERY MUCH FINISH YOUR
FOR YOUR COMMENTS
AND THOUGHTS AND BACK TO YOU IN
TORONTO.
>> THANK YOU, GLEN.
WE'RE ON THE LAST LEG OF THE
JOURNEY HERE TONIGHT.
MATT, YOU'RE BACK WITH US.
I JUST WANTED TO START WITH YOU,
IS THIS A DIFFERENT CONVERSATION
WE WOULD HAVE IN THE UNITED
STATES.
>> I WAS JUST THINKING THAT AS A
FOREIGNER.
>> Karyn: I READ YOUR MIND.
>> I SEE AN EVENT LIKE THIS AND
DO IT WITH A SENSE OF WONDER.
WE CAN'T DO THIS IN THE
UNITED STATES.
WE DON'T SIT DOWN AND CALMLY
DISCUSS OUR PROBLEMS.
[ Laughter ]
WE PREFER PHYSICAL COMBAT IF WE
CAN.
I MEAN, ALL JOKING ASIDE, THE
PROBLEMS THAT WE HAVE IN TERMS
OF DIVISION IN THE UNITED STATES
ARE MADE SIGNIFICANTLY WORSE BY
COMMERCIAL SYSTEM OF MEDIA THAT
MONETIZING ANGER THAT
INCENTIVIZES THE PRESS ON BOTH
SIDES, REALLY, TO WIND PEOPLE UP
AND MAKE THEM ANGRY WITH EACH
OTHER.
BEING HERE IN CANADA AND SEEING
HOW CIVIL AND CALM AND
REASONABLE THESE DISCUSSIONS
ARE, THIS IS SOMETHING YOU
SHOULD ALL TREASURE AND HOLD ON
TO.
>> Karyn: THANK YOU.
>> AND JUST BE WARNED BY OUR
EXAMPLE THAT THE WAY THAT WE GO
ABOUT THINGS, THE WAY THAT WE
CONDUCT OUR MEDIA BUSINESS IN
PARTICULAR LEADS TO TREMENDOUS
DANGERS AND YOU COULD LOSE
SOMETHING THAT IS VERY, VERY
WORTHWHILE.
>> Karyn: LET'S GET A FINAL
QUICK THOUGHT OFF OF EVERYBODY.
WE DISCUSSED HOW THIS ELECTION
IS GOING TO BE A LITTLE BIT
DIFFERENT FROM OTHER ELECTIONS.
WE DISCUSSED THINGS THAT ARE
REALLY UNIQUE TO THREATS ABOUT
DEMOCRACY.
IF THERE'S ONE THING WE SHOULD
FIX OR TRY TO FIX IF WE COULD
BEFORE THE ELECTION, WHAT WOULD
IT BE?
>> BEFORE THE ELECTION, THAT'S
TRICKY.
BECAUSE I'M A FIRM ADVOCATE IN
STRUCTURAL CHANGE AND
TRANSFORMATIVE CHANGE.
AND DRAMATICALLY ALTERING THE
INSTITUTIONS OF THE STATE
ITSELF AND OUR ECONOMIC SYSTEM.
ASKING A QUESTION WHAT TO CHANGE
IN THE NEXT EIGHT MONTHS IS
DIFFICULT TO SAY.
I THINK THAT -- I THINK THAT THE
BEST THAT WE CAN DO AT THIS
POINT IS CONTINUE TO ENCOURAGE
THE MEDIA TO COVER INDIGENOUS
ISSUES AND INDIGENOUS STORIES
AND REALLY MAKE THIS ELECTION
ABOUT THE CHALLENGES AND THE
INJUSTICE THAT INDIGENOUS
COMMUNITIES IN CANADA CONTINUE
TO FACE AND HOPE.
AND THAT'S REALLY A LIMITED
ASPIRATION.
BUT REALLY JUST HOPE THAT THAT
BECOMES AN ELECTION ISSUE.
>> Karyn: AND JENNIFER, 30
SECOND THOUGHT, WHAT WOULD YOU
DO BETWEEN NOW AND THE
ELECTION?
>> WELL, AS A CITIZEN, I THINK I
WOULD PLAY CLOSE ATTENTION TO
THE MEDIA SOURCES THAT I READ
AND MAKE SURE THAT THEY'RE ONES
THAT HAVE STANDARDS.
DO THEY HAVE A PUBLIC EDITOR?
DO THEY HAVE AN ONLY BUDS
PERSON?
DO THEY HAVE JOURNALISTS THAT
HAVE CREDENTIALS?
I THINK THIS GOES BACK TO WHAT
DAVID WAS SAYING AT THE VERY
BEGINNING IS THAT OUR NEWSROOMS,
I'M NOT A REPORTER ANYMORE, SO
IT'S EASY FOR ME TO SAY, BUT OUR
NEWSROOMS SHOULD GET OUT IN THIS
ELECTION.
THEY SHOULD GET OUT OF THE
OFFICES FOR GOODNESS SAKE STOP
REPORTING ON A POLL EVERY DAY.
AND GO OUT INTO DIFFERENT
COMMUNITIES WHICH ACTUALLY CPAC
DOES.
SO I HAVE TO TIP MY HAT TO
THEM.
THEY TALK TO PEOPLE AND MAKE
WHAT THEY'RE SAYING MATTER.
SO THAT WOULD BE MY WISH FOR THE
NEXT ELECTION.
>> Karyn: DAVID.
>> WELL, MORE EVENTS LIKE THIS.
PEOPLE ARE GOING TO TAKE THEIR
CUES IN PART FROM ELITES, FROM
MEDIA ELITES AND POLITICAL
ELITES AND BUSINESS LEADERS AND
CIVIL SOCIETY LEADERS.
THOSE COULD FOLKS COULD WAKE UP
TOMORROW AND DECIDE THEY WANT TO
TALK ABOUT POLICY FROM NOW UNTIL
THROUGH THE ELECTION.
THEY WANT TO TALK ABOUT CLIMATE
CHANGE.
THEY WANT TO TALK ABOUT
PHARMACARE.
THEY WANT TO TALK ABOUT CHILD
CARE.
THEY WANT TO TALK ABOUT HOUSING
AFFORDABILITY.
THEY WANT TO TALK ABOUT THE
THINGS THAT IF WE GET IT RIGHT,
WE WILL SUPPORT OUR DEMOCRATIC
INSTITUTIONS, AND MAKE SURE OUR
DEMOCRACY IS AROUND FOR A
HUNDRED YEARS AND HUNDRED YEARS
AND HUNDRED YEARS STILL.
OR TALK ABOUT STUPID PROCESS
STORIES AND HIGH DRAMA AND
TROLLING ON SOCIAL MEDIA.
IF ALL OF A SUDDEN THE FOLKS
WOKE UP AND SAID WE ARE GOING TO
TALK POLICY AND LEAD THAT
CONVERSATION, YOU KNOW WHAT WE
DO?
WE TALK POLICY.
SO I WOULD CHALLENGE INCLUDING
MYSELF OTHER JOURNALISTS AND
ACADEMICS AND POLITICAL LEADERS
AND BUSINESS LEADERS AND CIVIL
SOCIETY LEADERS EVERY ONE TO
WAKE UP TOMORROW AND DO THAT.
BECAUSE THAT IS SOMETHING WE
COULD CHANGE TOMORROW.
>> Karyn: SHOULD WE SEE EVERY
ONE GOING ON TWITTER TOMORROW
AND TALKING POLICY?
>> YOU KNOW, I THINK WE FIXED
IT.
[ Laughter ]
>> I THINK THAT'S A WRAP.
>> Karyn: I DON'T KNOW.
SHOULD WE MAYBE GIVE BESSA A
CHANCE.
>> YEAH.
>> TO THE MILLENNIAL IN
FORT MCMURRAY, I MEAN, WE NEED
YOU TO VOTE.
WE NEED YOUNG PEOPLE TO VOTE.
IT'S SIMPLY A SHAME THAT ALL OF
THESE AMAZING ISSUES THAT
THEY'RE SO PASSIONATE ABOUT, YOU
KNOW, AS A PROFESSOR I SEE IT IN
MY CLASSROOM.
THEY'RE PASSIONATE ABOUT THE
 AMAZE ISSUES
AND WONDER WHY THEY DON'T HAVE A
GOVERNMENT THAT REFLECTS THEIR
ISSUES.
YOU'RE NOT VOTING.
GO OUT THERE AND VOTE.
IT'S YOUR DEMOCRATIC PRIVILEGE
AND IT'S WORTHWHILE AND GET TO
KNOW THE INDIVIDUALS RUNNING FOR
ALL THE MAJOR PARTIES OUT THERE
AND EXERCISE THAT RIGHT.
THERE ARE PEOPLE IN
AUTHORITARIAN REGIMES DYING TO
HAVE THAT PRIVILEGE.
PLEASE GO OUT AND VOTE.
>> Karyn: I WANT TO JUST GO
BACK TO HAYDEN FOR A MOMENT AND
AMONGST INDIGENOUS PEOPLE NOT
EVERY ONE CHOOSES TO VOTE AND
PARTICIPATE IN DEMOCRACIES.
WHAT ARE OTHER WAYS THAT PEOPLE
CAN PARTICIPATE IN DEMOCRACY
BESIDES VOTING?
>> I THINK VOTING IS THE LOWEST
THRESHOLD OF DEMOCRACY, REALLY.
I THINK THAT THERE'S
NO OTHER COMMUNITY OR DEMOCRATIC
COMMUNITY IN CANADA THAT IS
ENGAGED IN DELIBERATE WAY THAN
INDIGENOUS COMMUNITIES AND
WHETHER THAT MEANS PARTICIPATING
IN DISCUSSIONS IN THE PUBLIC
SQUARE.
WHETHER THAT MEANS ORGANIZING
WHETHER THAT MEANS GETTING ON
THE STREETS WHETHER THAT MEANS A
BLOCKADE.
I THINK WE WILL CONTINUE TO SEE
MORE OF THAT AMONG INDIGENOUS
PEOPLE.
I WOULD LIKE TO SEE ALLIES IN
CANADA IN SOLIDARITY DO THOSE
THINGS TOO.
AND ELEVATE THEIR DISCOURSE
BEYOND JUST VOTING.
THEIR PARTICIPATION BEYOND JUST
VOTING.
WE DEFINITELY SEE MORE
DELIBERATIVE DEMOCRACY IN
CANADA.
>> Karyn: I WANT TO THANK ALL
THE PANELISTS TO BE HERE.
THAT'S NOT QUITE THE END.
WE WILL GO BACK TO PETER FOR
FINAL THOUGHTS.
>> Peter: THANK YOU VERY
MUCH.
BACK WITH DAVID RODE.
WHAT DO YOU THINK?
HAVE WE GOT IT ALL FIGURED OUT?
DID WE STRAIGHTEN IT OUT DAVID?
>> NO.
I THINK THE MESSAGE IS CLEAR: 
VOTE, CLEAR, SIGHT, BE
IDEALISTIC AND TRY AND I THINK
WE CAN IMPROVE THINGS.
I REALLY FEEL ENERGIZED HERE.
IT'S IMPRESSIVE WHAT CANADA HAS
TON.
I AGREE WITH MATT WE HAVE OF A
LOT TO LEARN AS AMERICANS.
IF WE GIVE UP, YOU KNOW, WE WILL
FAIL.
IT'S IMPERFECT AND WAYS TO ALL
MAKE A DIFFERENCE.
I'M ENCOURAGED BY TONIGHT AND I
HOPE EVERY ONE THAT WATCHES IS
ENCOURAGED AS WELL.
>> Peter: THANK YOU FOR
PARTICIPATING AND ALL OF THE
PANELISTS TONIGHT.
DAVID WAS TELLING ME EARLIER HIS
DAD PARTICIPATING IN HOW MANY
MARATHONS IN MONTREAL IN
QUEBEC.
>> MONTREAL MARATHON IS THE
FAVOURITE MARATHON.
WE LOVE THE MARATHON AND THANK
YOU FOR INCLUDING US.
>> Peter: KEEP THAT IN MIND.
IN THE CONVERSATION WE HAD IT'S
NOT A SPRINT BUT A BIT OF A
MARATHON AS WE TRY TO BRING
ABOUT THE KINDS OF CONVERSATIONS
WE NEED IN THE COUNTRY AND KINDS
OF COMMITMENT WE NEED TO OUR OWN
DEMOCRACY.
THAT WILL BE OUR PURPOSE WITH
THE DEMOCRACY PROJECT THIS EVENT
AND OTHERS.
AND IF YOU WANT TO KNOW MORE GO
TO THE WEBSITE WHICH IS THE
DEMOCRACY PROJECT.CA.
WHERE YOU WILL SEE LOTS OF GREAT
CONTENT THERE TO INFORM THE
CONVERSATION AND DRIVE THE
CONVERSATION.
AND MAYBE WE GO FORWARD FROM
THIS ROOM AND IN FORT MCMURRAY
AND IN HALIFAX AND SPREAD THAT
WORD.
HAVE A CIVIL CONVERSATION ABOUT
WHERE POLITICS IS HEADING AND
WHERE DEMOCRACY IS HEADED WITH
YOUR FRIENDS AND FAMILIES.
EVEN ON SOCIAL MEDIA.
DO IT THERE TOO.
I'M PETER VAN DUSEN.
THANKS SO MUCH FOR BEING WITH US
TONIGHT.
AND WE'LL SEE YOU NEXT TIME.
[ ♪♪♪ ]
