- Hello, everyone.
My name is Chris Corley.
I'm interim dean of
Library and Learning
at Minnesota State Mankato.
Thank you for joining us today.
Today's session is a
community listening session.
It's the first of
four sessions that
are dedicated to
responding to community
concerns and our
ongoing commitment
to professional program
review, where our university is
inviting you to a town
hall listening session
on our review of current
criminal justice programs,
including the educational
programs of peace officers
and correction officers.
By way of introduction, Dr. Pat
Nelson, the department chair
of our Department of Government,
will talk about today's session
before we have our conversation.
- Thank you for joining us.
We're very excited
to have you here.
So the purpose of our listening
session has many facets to it.
First of all,
President Davenport
really wanted us
to take some time
this summer and dive
into what our curriculum
is in our criminal
justice programs
at Minnesota State
University, Mankato.
And also, we wanted to
demonstrate our commitment
to the community.
All of our programs
undergo program review
every five years.
And this is the first time
we've invited the community
to have a voice in
our program review
and to give us feedback
on our curriculum.
Again, we do have three
criminal justice programs.
We have the corrections program,
the criminal justice program,
and law enforcement program.
And we'll tell you a little
bit about each of those
before we get to questions.
And I do just want to caution.
We are focusing on
education, curriculum,
and higher education.
We're not going to be
doing any discussion
of any specific events or
cases that have occurred
in the nation or the world.
So by way of
introduction, I'm going
to have each one of the
panelists introduce themselves.
- Hi.
Good afternoon,
everyone-- or, excuse me.
Still, good morning.
My name is Matt Loayza.
I'm the dean of the College of
Social and Behavioral Sciences,
here at Minnesota
State, Mankato.
My career at MSU
began back in 2003,
when I was hired as a professor
in the history department.
There I taught a bunch
of courses on US history,
mainly related to US
foreign relations,
served as interim dean in
2018, 2019, and last year,
dropped the interim
from the title.
So now, it's just dean.
I'm serving on this work
group, because law enforcement,
corrections, and
criminal justice
are all programs in the College
of Social and Behavioral
Sciences.
Part of my role as dean
is talking and working
with the faculty on
curricular revisions,
and development, and
all of those programs.
So welcome, everyone, and
thank you for joining us today.
- Hi.
Good morning, everyone.
My name is Henry Morris,
the vice president
of Diversity and Inclusion.
I'm also a member of
the president's cabinet,
senior leadership advisory
group to the president.
And as Pat said, we've
been having conversations
at cabinet and council of
deans for a while on what
was happening in the
nation and what role
that we felt that we could
do to be part of changes.
And that was decided was needed.
I also-- as you
can probably tell,
I'm a African-American
male, so I
have some personal
interest in the discussion
that we're having.
So I look forward to
these listening sessions
to hear what we need to hear
about how Minnesota State
University can be
part of the solution
and not received as part
of anybody's problem.
- And I'm Pat Nelson.
You've probably heard
of me or seen me
talking about law enforcement.
I joined Minnesota State
University Mankato in 2012
as a faculty member of the
law enforcement program
and came from a
professional position
here in Minnesota as a
law enforcement officer.
I have a deep passion
for law enforcement.
I'm actually a fifth-generation
law enforcement officer
in my family.
I'm also the chair of the
Department of Government
that houses several programs,
including political science,
urban and regional
studies, law enforcement,
and criminal justice.
I serve as the program
director, specifically
for law enforcement
and criminal justice.
And I love to instill
in my students
the passion for being a part
of the community, and with law
enforcement, and
criminal justice.
And I'm really
excited to hear what
you have to give us for
information about our programs.
- Hi, Dr. Sherrise
Truesdale-Moore.
I'm associate professor of
corrections in the Department
of Sociology and Corrections.
I'm the past director of
the corrections program.
My former experience--
I ran a correction program
for the state of Maryland
in the late 1900s.
And I formerly was employed
at the US Attorney's Office
in Division of Narcotics.
I look forward to hearing
some of the things
that you have to say.
I came here in 2004.
And some of the courses
that I've taught
have been Juvenile Delinquency,
Intro to Criminal Justice,
Correctional Counseling, Social
Deviance, Cultural Competency
in Corrections.
I've done study abroad and
to study in South Africa--
the criminal justice
system there.
And I've also taught
race in juvenile justice.
So I look forward to
hearing some of the things
that you have to offer--
our curriculum.
- The next step in
our introduction--
we just want to really
give you a brief overview
of the programs to show you
what we are currently teaching
in there.
Because it might help
answer some questions
and generate some ideas.
So I'm going to turn this back
over to Dr. Truesdale-Moore
to talk about corrections.
- OK.
So first, I would like to
share with you the intent
or purpose of our program.
So the corrections
program was designed
to prepare students for
entry-level professional work
in corrections.
The major is built
upon a foundation
of general education, sociology,
and criminological concepts,
and a commitment to
understanding and transforming
the correctional practice.
So what we hear today
is very important.
The major achieves
its objectives
through the melding
of academic learning
with experiential education.
This program is further expected
to promote within corrections
and to the community at large,
a commitment to the principles
of social justice, respect,
tolerance, dignity,
and worth of all persons.
So our students-- when they
first come into our program,
they usually are taking
very intro classes.
That will be juvenile
delinquency, foundations,
and orientation.
Foundation is to introduce
you to some of the things
that we can offer
into our program,
whether it be non-profit
or in agency of some kind.
They'll give you some
experience in touching
on the discipline in some sort.
Juvenile delinquency--
of course,
it speaks for itself and
also the justice system
and the theoretical practices
behind understanding
the behavioral issues.
And our JOLT Program is a
really fascinating program
where it actually has
our students connected
with probation officers
who are working with youth,
who are on probation.
And one of our students
is assigned to one
of the kids on probation.
And we help them through
the probation process.
They have different
activities that they
may do with the youth.
They may talk to teachers.
They may talk to
someone in a community
that they have interaction with.
But they also work closely
with the probation officer
in the daily tasks
of what they do.
So other types of
courses are usually
what we call the 400
level, is usually
at the junior and senior level.
And that's where we are
actually digging into our major
to understand the applied
approaches to working.
Evidence-- what is
the best evidence
out there that tells us how to
best work with the population
into the community?
Other types of classes
that we have to take--
correctional law that
introduces to legal issues
within the correctional system.
But the interesting thing
about one of my courses
is that I teach cultural
competency in corrections,
where there I'm
teaching students
how to look at the
humanity of the offender
or the at-risk person that
they are working with.
That examines their
own awareness.
We look at skills.
And we look at--
and we start to build knowledge
and building intervention
practices that intersect with
evidence-based practices.
So I don't know where
I should go from here.
Because I could go on and on
and talk about each course.
But I try to give you an
interesting aspect or a lens
into what we do in our program.
- I'm going to move us on to
the criminal justice program.
Because Sherrise and I
worked very hard on this
to get this program at Minnesota
State University, Mankato.
There had been people
working on it before us,
but we were the ones that
finally got it approved.
And this is just the second
year of our criminal justice
program.
The criminal justice
degree is a little bit
different than the law
enforcement and the corrections
degree, but we blend in
classes from both of them.
There is a wide range
of occupations, careers,
associated networks
with criminal justice.
So it's much more than
police and corrections.
As you can see, we do a blend of
corrections and law enforcement
courses.
It is a little difficult
to decipher this layout
on the screen.
I admit that is
one of the things
that we are still working on to
make it a little bit smoother.
But we do have some
common core courses
that include ethics and
leadership, criminal law
and procedure, research, and
understanding drugs in society.
We also include a
cultural competency piece
where they can choose
between the Law Enforcement
Policing in a Diverse
Society course
or the Cultural Competency
in Corrections course.
We make them spend time on
theories such as criminology
and victimology.
And then we try to
tailor electives
into their interest in the
criminal justice system.
Sherrise, am I missing anything?
- No.
- And then our law
enforcement program.
So our law
enforcement program is
accredited by the Minnesota
Peace Officer Standards
and Trainings Board.
We are an official Professional
Peace Officer Education
Program.
Minnesota-- you have to have
at least a two-year degree
to become licensed
as a peace officer.
We're the largest four-year
program in the state.
And we always
encourage our students
to get a four-year degree
not just because they
get to spend more time
with us in the classroom,
but they get a lot more
maturity, more critical
thinking, more decision-making
in those final two years
at the university.
And that's what we promote.
So as you can see, there's a
lot of law enforcement classes.
We have a lot of post-learning
objectives we have to meet.
And we really have it
divided into two sections.
Our lower division
100 and 200 classes--
we consider the
core basic classes.
And these are also
ones that they would
get in a two-year program.
And then our 300 and
400-level classes
are those where we spend
a lot more time, more
in depth on theory,
practical application,
and real-world scenarios.
One of our highlights
is that we've
been teaching a Policing
in a Diverse Society
class for the last 20 years.
We moved it from the 200
level, up into our junior level
about three years
ago, because we wanted
to spend more time there.
And I know it might sound weird
that we have a class called
Law Enforcement Mindset.
But that was the best
title we could come up
with for psychologically
preparing them to communicate
and work in law enforcement.
So we can talk about individual
classes if you have questions.
We have course descriptions
as well on the website.
But I really want to be able
to have more time for questions
for the community.
So if you have any specific
questions, just let us know.
One more thing before
we get into questions
is we are asking for
additional members
to be a part of our criminal
justice program review work
group.
We're looking for some community
partners and subject matter
experts.
And we'll be meeting over
Zoom starting in August.
Right now, we don't have
quite the email address
you can send your
letter of interest to.
But we are looking
for people that are
interested in participating.
And we'll get that
information out,
probably in a press release
and on our website here soon.
So the structure of today--
you could submit your questions
via email to events@msu.edu.
But since you're here in
our listening session,
we would prefer if you
submitted your questions
via the Q&A button, which is
on the bottom on your screen,
probably, or by
raising your hand.
If you raise your hand, we
will get you in the order
that people raise their hands.
We will limit your
question to a minute.
You will be muted until
your question is asked.
And then we'll mute
you again, just so
that we can respond without
getting a lot of feedback.
If you have
additional questions,
you can just raise your hand.
We will remind you that we are
just focused on education here,
so we will stay within
those boundaries.
So at that, I think I will
turn it back over to Chris.
Thank you.
- Thank you very much.
We did have some
questions that were
submitted to us ahead of time.
So I think what we'll do is
start with a few of those,
while our audience is
preparing their own questions.
And feel free, again, to use
the Q&A or to raise your hand.
And we'll get to you
when we're able to do so.
So why don't we start
with Dr. Nelson?
Why don't we start with you
with the first question, which
is, are students taught to
consider their career in law
enforcement as a way to protect
and serve through community
connections and outreach?
- So I will start by saying yes.
And you'll probably
see that I'll
share the program layouts as
we're talking and answering
questions here.
We do not do what is
called fear-based training.
We are focused, really.
We start them off
in a class called
Law Enforcement and
Community Relations,
right in their freshman year.
And we keep carrying
that through.
We talk about human behavior.
We talk about diverse societies.
We talk about psychologically
preparing yourself.
We have a stress course.
So, yes, that is a
common theme that you
hear from all of
our faculty members
is that we are
community members.
There is no "us" versus them.
We are all part
of the community.
And you should be
thinking those people
as your neighbors
and not the enemies.
So that is a very strong
thing that we try to teach.
- OK, we'll go with
another question here.
Potentially, Dean
Loayza, if you would
like to answer this question,
it's a more broad question.
But what can we do as educators
to change the direction
that policing has taken?
- I think what we're
continually trying
to do here at Minnesota
State, Mankato
is to always review our
programs on a regular basis.
Whether or not that's
criminal justice,
law enforcement, corrections,
are considering the question.
All of our other programs
such as history, sociology,
right on down the
line to really think
about how we analyze
society in a broad sense,
look at how policing
fits into just
the broader society that we
live in and participate in.
So looking at policing not just
under a really tunnel vision,
myopic focus, but
just look at how
it plays into many
of the challenges
that we're facing
as a broader society
and looking to address these
inequities on a systemic level
and contributing to
our broader society.
So I think if we can do
that and look at this,
I think, from a holistic
point of view and look
at how all of our university
programs, gen-ed curriculum
to majors can look at
these broader questions
and then, in turn, help prepare
the best professionally trained
individuals that we can, whether
or not they're peace officers,
whether or not they're social
studies or other educators,
engineers, social workers.
Then I think we'll
be much better
prepared to deal with these
variety of issues that
certainly include law
enforcement when we're
talking about, say,
systemic racism,
but go well beyond that.
- OK, thank you.
- Actually, I'd like to
jump in on this one, too.
I think this is
part of why we're
having this listening session.
Because when we
talk about education
and the direction policing is
going, I think it's important
we find out what
those in the community
think about our education.
What do they think we're doing?
What do they think
we should be doing?
So I would open up to anybody
that's on the attendees list.
You don't actually necessarily
have to have a question for us.
You could have a suggestion.
You could have an area you think
that we should be covering.
And maybe we are,
maybe we aren't.
But really, the sky
is the limit here.
I'll flat out tell you
if we can't do something,
because it's outside the law.
But otherwise, really,
the sky is the limit.
And that's what we're
really looking for,
is I want some feedback.
How can we help change the
direction of policing here?
- And I'll just
remind you that feel
free to put
questions in the Q&A.
And we'll address those
or raise your hand.
And we can get to your
question orally as well.
- Chris, can I just piggyback
on that a little bit?
- Yes.
- Again, I think what Matt and
Pat shared, I think, is core.
Minnesota State, Mankato
is a state university--
I think has a special
relationship between what
we do here and the
citizens of Minnesota
as a state institution.
Quite a bit of our budget comes
from the state legislature
through taxes, again
through the people.
And so as Chris said in
our opening statement,
we are responding to what
we heard from the community.
And as a university, we
put out to ourselves,
had conversations.
How can we be part
of this conversation?
What role do we have?
And, well, we teach a
lot of the people that
become officers in corrections.
So are we teaching
all the things
that make them better
employees in those environments
in the foundational level when
we come out of our program?
Are we doing the
best that we can
do to make them the
best people that they
can be in the communities
that they get hired to?
And so we have some
questions about that.
We see what's happening.
We read the newspapers.
We see all those
interesting things.
And so we know.
We have a special role.
We're not just innocent
bystanders looking at it.
We have an active role in
trying to make a difference.
Not the only role and maybe not
even the most important role,
but we know we have a role.
And so that's why we're
here to listen and to see
what we're missing.
And sometime when you're
part of the forest,
you can't see all the trees.
And so that's why we really
call in these listening sessions
for you to share
with us what you
may be seeing from
your perspectives,
that we might be able
to have the ability
to impact and make a difference
in, as we go forward.
- Thank you very much,
Vice President Morris.
The next question-- perhaps I'll
direct to Dr. Truesdale-Moore.
And that's a question about
the kinds of education
that our students
have about working
with people who have physical
or mental disabilities.
The person writing
asked specifically
about schizophrenia
or bipolar disorder.
Could you describe
how our students are--
what kind of experience they
have with that education?
You're muted.
- OK.
All right.
So there are a couple of courses
that we have in our program--
Correctional Counseling
that, actually, we
don't teach from the
perspective of maybe someone
in a mental health program
or a psychology program.
We look at it in terms of
how that particular disorder
affects how it impacts
their interaction with law
enforcement or
particularly probation.
We see it in terms of, what
does this disorder consist
of that create different
types of behaviors
that may impact how someone
sees you, reacts to you?
And then at the same time,
what are the best interventions
or programs that we can
put in place to make
sure that we have the
best types of outcomes?
So some of the exercises--
well, one of the
exercises that we do
is I have them to
research a disorder
and come back to class.
And this is not a
lecture pointing
to the board type of lecture.
This is a lecture
where they come
and they present the
issues about, for example,
schizophrenia.
And then after that
short presentation,
we use it in group
settings sitting down.
And no one is standing
up, pointing to the board.
Like I said, they
present that information.
Then the students
will take notes
as they hear what is happening
with that particular disorder.
And then my conversation, as I
facilitate the conversation is,
what will be the interaction?
Or what are some of
the issues that you
think that are important that
a probation officer should
know about?
So does it mean that
in some disorders,
you may be depressed a lot?
In some disorders, you
may be hyperactive.
In some disorders, you might
have to have medication
to manage you.
I can go on and on.
But at the same time,
once we understand
what those attributes
are, those characteristics
of the disorder, then it's not
necessarily about resistance.
Why should I just immediately
go to my docket and my file
and say, this person resisted?
No.
This person has problems
remembering his appointments.
How can we put
something in place
that challenge that
kind of response
or build better programming
so that he makes it
to his probation officer,
meets with him regularly?
Or we make sure he gets up on
time and gets to his program.
Or if he's acting
out in his program,
what are some of those
issues that we need to--
is group setting the
best place for him?
Or should we do an
individual setting?
So it's those kinds
of conversations
that we have in a
classroom that gives them
some insight on how
to work with someone
with those various
types of disorders.
- And I'll jump in on here.
So on the law
enforcement side, we
do spend quite a bit of time
going over the different types
and categories.
Not only in mental
illnesses, but also,
maybe injuries,
substance abuse, anything
that might impact
normal communication.
What we, I'll put quotes around
that, normal communications
with somebody.
So we actually start that in Law
Enforcement and Human Behavior.
We continue it in Law
Enforcement Mindset.
In fact, the first eight
weeks of that course
is spent on communications,
de-escalation,
active listening,
and mental illness.
And they do even
role-playing, where
they're role-playing
some interactions
in a safe environment,
so they can get feedback.
Now, our interaction on
the law enforcement side
with people that
have mental illness
usually come in two categories.
They're either in crisis, or
they need some assistance.
So we also spend quite a bit of
time on suicide intervention.
As somebody who has some
extensive experience
with crisis intervention,
I always start off
with my students,
telling them, how
do we start a conversation with
somebody who's mentally ill?
And they usually look at me.
It's like the same way you start
a conversation with anybody
else, because it's true.
Most law enforcement
officers do not
know they're dealing with
somebody who is mentally ill.
And the mental illness may
have no impact whatsoever
on the call.
So could we spend
more time on that?
Absolutely.
I could probably spend
every day, every semester
for five semesters trying
to teach this to somebody,
but it's a skill you have to
continually use and build.
But it's something we need to
definitely lay the foundation
for in education.
- Thank you.
We are receiving some questions
coming in from our audience.
So I'll start from the top.
Some of the questions
relate to one another.
But the first question
is, in what course
do students learn about the
history of law enforcement
as a profession?
Specifically, the
ways police have
been used to enforce oppressive
laws like Jim Crow laws.
The historical context
of the profession
seems key to help future
officers understand
some of the lack of trust people
have toward the institution
of policing.
- So you actually have two
classes that answer this.
The very history
of law enforcement,
going back to Sir Robert
Peel back in England
and our Magna Carta--
we start that an introduction
to criminal justice.
So everybody in all
three programs get this.
But the specific ways police
have used enforced law
to be oppressive--
that's our policing
under a diverse society.
And I'll admit, I actually
have a law enforcement degree,
but I don't remember
having any of that.
So I think it's really
good that we have it.
Do we need more?
I think one of my
suggestions-- and I
hope is something I also
hear from the community--
is maybe we need more of
it from a different voice
outside of law enforcement.
That might be one of our
suggestions for a curriculum
change.
And what do you guys think?
Do we need it?
- Vice President Morris, did
you want to speak to that issue?
- Yeah, I think history is an
important thing, because it
helps people to understand why
some communities may see police
to protect and serve.
And some may see them
as an occupying power.
And both truths could be true.
And until you can
understand the perspectives
of both and some time to--
that's where the whole issue
around certain terminology
about--
is your perspective
more right than mine?
They're just different
in that right.
How I perceive the
police, based on how
I was raised and
interact with them,
may be different
than somebody else.
And they're both
true for people.
And so that's why I do
think it's important
that people in the
criminal justice system
understand the different
perceptions that people have
based on their reality
and their history
with those people, who
they are interacting,
whether it's a judge, whether
it's police corrections.
And my wife happens to
be a probation officer--
well, used to be.
She now supervises them,
so we have conversations
from that perspective.
And how she does her role
as an African-American woman
is different sometime than
what her peers may do it.
Yet, so that
history, I think, is
paramount to understanding
why people respond differently
to police and to
correction officers.
- And I'm going to jump on here.
Because Jessica also had
a very similar question
that had just one part that
I would like to answer.
In our general
education component
here at the university,
history is an option
that students can study,
but is their selection.
When you start getting
into our programs,
we have some mandatory history
we build into our classes.
But does everybody
in our program
study the same
amount of history?
No, they don't.
Should they?
Maybe they should.
But then deciding
what part of that
they should be
required to study is
a conversation we need to have.
So I wanted to answer
Jessica, since we were already
on most of her question
there, the one section
that we didn't have.
- Chris, I could just
jump in briefly, too.
Yeah.
I mean, maybe I'm biased,
because I'm an historian.
But I think that everyone
should study history, obviously.
But I think, really, there
are a variety of programs
across the university,
many of them
in SBS that address related
questions on law enforcement.
And I think one
thing to consider
is the individual raising
the question clearly
understands what Jim Crow is.
Our entering freshmen
cohorts don't necessarily
know what that's a reference to.
So that's a very important
part of the equation.
When we think about
urban violence--
I've covered that in
my classes in the '60s.
As we currently do, do
we call those riots?
Do we label them as
rebellions instead?
I think those
questions lead themself
to a very different degree of
understanding of our history.
So I guess what I invite
the participants to think
about is, yeah, give us some
feedback as to, what kind
of perspectives
do you think would
be either necessary or helpful
to our future curriculum,
whether or not that comes
from history, sociology,
ethnic studies?
But, really, what do you think?
What do you want us to include
not just as core disciplines,
but topics such as Jim Crow, a
whole variety of other things?
- Dr. Truesdale, would
you like to speak
to that issue of
elements of history
that are in your program?
- Right.
Teaching the history around
law enforcement good.
However, that is only
one small aspect.
And the course that I think in
our discipline in corrections
is social deviance.
There's a book I use called
All God's Children by Fox
Butterfield that talks about the
history of violence in America
that takes you from the
American Revolution,
on up to present contemporary
life of a family.
And it includes not only
just issues around Jim Crow,
but all of the
nuances that happened
and the legal
issues that happened
around the existence of race
and family in this time.
And I use theory to help explain
some of the issues around it.
I talk about laws.
I talk about the elections
that happened in the late 1800
that created separation of
state and federal government
and what it did for African
Americans during Jim Crow
and why.
So there is so much information
that has to be discussed.
When you start
talking about history,
there's so much information.
But what I think is
important is to zoom
in on the conditions that affect
what our discipline is all
about.
Whether it be corrections,
law enforcement,
what are those conditions
that create something that
give you good or bad outcomes?
There's also a documentary
on Netflix called 13th.
And that gives you
a history lesson
about why these
conditions happen.
So I don't want to
just zero in on what
law enforcement has to do.
I think you're
missing most of what
has to take place
in a history lesson
to understand what
the conditions are
or the curriculum that needs to
take place if that makes sense.
- Thank you, Dr. Truesdale.
We have two related
questions, I think,
that potentially the
program directors
can help us respond to.
One asks if whether
students need to apply
to be in any of these programs.
If yes, are there personality
or psychological screening
of the applicants in order to
be considered to admission?
And a related
question, I believe,
is, how or when
does your program
talk with students
that may not be
appropriate for the
field of law enforcement?
And should they be steered
in a different direction?
So I guess both questions ask
about the application screening
process.
- I'll jump on here for the
law enforcement program.
So they can be admitted
to the law enforcement
program versus a freshman.
But then we get to a block
around their junior year,
where they have to
apply for admission
to finish the program.
And we are bound by some
Minnesota statutes that
have requirements about
a psychological exam
and physical exam
and some standards
there that we have to meet.
Those standards do not identify
specific personality types,
though.
The standards are
that the person
is not a danger to
themselves or others
and will not likely engage
in racial profiling.
I had to look at
the exact language
here, because I
never remember that.
And that is at the opinion
of the psychologist that
meets with the person
after they complete the--
I believe it's the MMPI-2.
And then from the
physical standard
is that they don't have
any pre-existing injuries
or medical restrictions.
So we do have
those requirements.
And we do have to
have that documented
by medical and
psychological professionals.
When somebody is hired
for a police department,
they usually go through
a different type
of psychological exam.
And I think the
second part of that
was, when do we talk to them?
If we are finding somebody may
struggle in law enforcement,
we try to talk to them
as soon as possible.
What do I mean by that?
If they are afraid to
communicate with people,
if they are telling
us they're not
comfortable with certain things,
if they're displaying anything
that we could interpret
as simply being
racist, homophobic,
discriminative behavior,
we'll sit down and talk to them.
Believe it or not,
many of them do not
realize they're
displaying that behavior.
I get that a lot
with role-playing
where they get into a little
bit of a stressful situation.
And suddenly, they are
using terms that are not
accepted in a classroom.
And they don't even
realize they're doing it.
And then we have to have a much
deeper discussion about that.
One of the limitations we do
have is that we cannot really
just tell somebody, you can't
get a law enforcement degree,
if they can meet that
minimum criteria.
Even if, as faculty, we've
sat down and talked to them
and said, this is probably
not the right fit for you
and why, if they can meet
the legal requirements,
we can't tell them, no,
you can't get this degree.
Now, most of those
students are weeded out
in the hiring process.
And it may seem silly
that we can't do that.
But again, we're bound
by legal rules on what
our minimum standards are.
And then we're bound on other
philosophical type of ideas
on whether we
could tell somebody
they can't get a degree or not.
- Chris, if I could?
Well, there's two things.
And one is I want to ask
the audience something.
But the first part of this is
that in my discipline as you
study issues around race
and counseling issues,
there's Dr. Harold Neighbors
at the University of Michigan.
I don't know if
he's retired now,
but he does a lot on
Blacks and psychology.
And in his research--
and you can google much.
He's well-established
in the discipline.
But in his research, he talks
about African Americans being
more likely to be misdiagnosed.
So when we look at law
enforcement and issues
around, saying,
OK, this person--
and a psychologist is
saying, this person
has some mental
health challenges.
Oftentimes, we need to
question, go a little further.
Is that person using
the right instrument?
Is it a culturally
appropriate instrument
that they're examining?
What is their awareness,
knowledge, and skill
set in making those diagnosis?
Because when you make any of
those types of assessments
about someone, there is
a level of subjectivity
around their perspective.
So if you take the consideration
that African Americans are
often misdiagnosed, we can look
at that in terms of offender
and those who are actually
going into the field.
And how many of
these people who are
psychologists, who are actually
making this determination--
what is their skill set as well?
Because we can't assume that
when that person is actually
making that evaluation that
they have the best skill
sets themselves.
Historically, if we go
back and look at history,
mental health has also been
used to control as far back
as slavery to try to escape.
To try to escape would mean
that you had a mental health
disorder.
And there is a level of issue,
concerns about the diagnosis.
So not only are we
concerned about what
African-American community.
Not only are we concerned
about, are there
enough people of color
getting jobs in policing?
Or do they want them at all?
But also, looking at
the offender side.
How does that person--
who is diagnosing that person?
And we're more concerned
in my discipline
in corrections about how we
put those kinds of labels
on people.
And then at the same
time, once they've
been labeled that way, with
it being then misdiagnosed,
then that means you are not
given a correct intervention
for that person as well or
programming for that person.
OK.
All right.
- I think your
comments, Dr. Truesdale,
lead to another question that
was provided here about--
and I assume all
the panelists could
speak to this to some
extent is the kinds
of efforts that are being
made by the university
to enroll students of
color, to enter corrections,
criminal justice, and
law enforcement programs.
And I'll leave it open.
I think many of you might
have perspectives on this.
- I'll jump in.
I know that we, specifically,
for criminal justice, law
enforcement, and,
well, corrections,
because we do corrections
at the same time,
we go recruit in a couple
very specific areas.
The Minnesota Police
Explorers Conference
is one that we go to.
This was our first year
missing it in eight years,
because of the
COVID-19 pandemic.
Our academic advisor,
Trudy Kunkel,
actually goes up to Anoka,
Hennepin Technical College
for an event every fall.
Because they actually
have a high school program
that goes right into
law enforcement.
We have tried to get to
the LEO Conference, which
is the Law Enforcement
Opportunities Conference.
We try to get out there to where
we know that there might be
a larger gathering of students.
We do have connections with
our community colleges.
Because that's a natural
transition from the ones
that are getting their two-year
degree to come and finish
their four-year degree.
But that's about the extent
that I have right now that we've
been doing, specific
criminal justice
program recruiting
out in the community.
- Maybe what we can do is have
the program representatives
talk about how their
programs recruit.
And then we'll hear what
the administrators have
to say about more broadly
recruiting students of color
to the university as well.
So Dr. Truesdale?
- Well, I can tell you.
Our discipline is
mostly one where
they realize what they
want to do once they get
into the university and
take courses like Juvenile
Delinquency, an Intro
to Criminal Justice,
or any one of those intro class.
So we're one of those
kinds of majors, OK?
The second thing that I
wish we would do more of
is to go to different community
colleges and start recruiting.
We are at the stage where we are
making connections with them,
which I think is a good thing.
I do believe to recruit students
of color, particularly Black
and brown students.
The university has
to do a better job
at bringing in faculty
that looks like them.
And the honesty-- that
has been a challenge.
It's just been a challenge
trying to hire someone
at the university.
So I'll just leave it at that.
- I'll answer some of that
as the VP of Diversity
and Inclusion.
One of my primary
responsibilities
is to help the
university recruit
and retain diverse
employees and students.
We are, I think, fairly
good at recruiting students.
We need to get better.
And we are getting better
at retaining those students.
Because to get here,
they have to be
able to get that four-year
degree and leave us.
We do have some programs
that are specifically
to try to get diverse
students into higher ed,
into specific programs.
It may be one of
those we are to do.
Right now, we have some
for diverse students
in the sciences.
Maybe we ought to do some of
these with special recruiting
for diverse students going
into criminal justice,
going into policing,
going into corrections.
So we can and probably should
do a better job of doing that.
Because our
communities, again, are
saying they would just like--
Dr. Truesdale was talking about
the importance of students
seeing role models as
their faculty members.
Many people in the
communities out there
say they would love to see
police that look like them
and think like them
in their community.
So that is something
we, as a university,
can make a commitment to
doing different and better
and following up on some
of these suggestions
that we are talking about.
- I also want to jump in here.
Like in law enforcement,
most of our students
come to the university
knowing they
want to be law enforcement.
And that's part of the
recruiting connection
we need to have with local
law enforcement agencies.
Most students that want
to study law enforcement
have had one of those
experiences with a law
enforcement officer
that they idolized.
They've got a mentor
connection, or they
want to make things better.
I mean, we have a pretty good
relationship with the Mankato
Department of Public Safety.
But we need to be pushing our
relationships more outside
of Mankato and even with Mankato
to help recruit those students.
Because you influence our
law enforcement students
in our high schools.
We can't do that all
as our university.
But if we work with our
partners in the profession,
maybe we could have a better
chance of recruiting students
in high school,
get their interest,
get them into some
programs where
we're working together to
build our student population.
And I know the next question.
I'm just going to
answer it here.
We at the university
reflect the same percentages
of women and officers of
color that the law enforcement
agencies do in
the Upper Midwest.
We're right about 15% for
female and about 10 or 11%
officers of color.
We've run almost
exactly the same
as our law enforcement agencies.
So any recruiting
efforts they do, help us.
And any recruiting
efforts we do,
help our law
enforcement agencies.
And I think that's a partnership
we need to explore more.
I don't know what
that looks like.
And I don't know that
our law enforcement
officers and elected officials
know what that look like.
But it's probably a
conversation we need to have.
We need to be
helping each other.
We really do.
- Can I ask a question of
my colleagues on the panel
as I was listening to you?
And let me say, I'm also
learning about our programs
here.
So I'm also-- when
we are talking
about the psychological
kind of issues and stuff,
do we ask our police to do
too much in our correction?
That seems like a big issue.
I have lots of degrees.
And I couldn't answer
some of these questions
in terms of evaluating.
So do we ask our police
and child programs
to try to figure that
out in our relationship
with police, what
we ask police to do?
- You want to jump on
that first, Sherrise,
or you want me to?
- I think they do.
I think that--
I was raised on the East Coast.
And many people who majored--
yeah, some who majored
in criminal justice, some
did psychology and social
work just like here.
But also, some of
those individuals
came from the
Marines or the Army
and decided that they wanted
to do law enforcement--
trained to kill.
They're trained to use weapons.
We're not just
talking about a gun
that we wear on our holster.
We're talking about people
who also are used to--
use the M-16s and M-60s.
And some also have come
through Desert Storm.
They had gotten law
enforcement jobs.
And some people who want
to work in law enforcement
may have some of
their own issues
that they have to unravel.
Some people may not-- who
work in law enforcement
really, really don't
know how to work
with someone who's dealing
with mental health challenges.
We can say it all day long.
We can just say it all
day long in a class.
But until you go and
have that interaction,
you're really not
sure what to do.
So a trained person should
be the one to go in there
and probably de-escalate.
Because they understand
those people's challenges
more than someone like myself
who's a law enforcement person.
And I'm trained to do
other things, right?
So I think we need
to really think
about who we're sending
in to do certain things.
And then I will say
from a personal note,
I have a cousin who just retired
last year from law enforcement
in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania.
And I asked her when some of
our own incidents have happened.
I asked her.
I said, what kind of
questions did they ask you?
And she said before, when
got hired in the early '90s.
And she said they asked me
about a gender question.
And the question was,
when he goes in--
your partner is a male.
He goes in to deal with
a situation or a crisis.
Are you going to sit in the car?
Or are you going to go with him?
She says, I'm going
to go with him.
Because right now, we're equal.
We're looking out
for each other.
Right.
That's the right answer, right?
But she said to me there was
not one diversity question
that they asked her
in the interview.
Not one.
And my concern is at
the hiring process.
Not just, what is that
person trained to do?
But what kind of
questions you're
asking them to get them prepared
to think about [AUDIO OUT]
that they may have
to deal with, right?
I think that's important.
So to go back to more
specific to the question,
I think we ask law enforcement
to do too much, right?
I do think we ask
them to do too much.
And every single thing
that we come into contact--
call the police, call the
police, call the police.
They could be having coffee.
And they're not where
they're supposed to.
Call the police.
I think that we ask
them to do too much.
- So as somebody who is a
Midwest girl, grew up Midwest,
I was working law
enforcement in the Midwest.
Yes, we have
trained our society.
Over the last 15 to 20 years,
if you need anything, call 911.
And also, we've had our
government structure create
a system where, OK, so
who can answer these 911
calls, no matter what?
Law enforcement, fire, and
emergency medical technicians,
right?
So you have expanded what's
required of law enforcement.
And we also have some laws.
The only profession that
can put a hold on somebody
who is in a mental health
crisis and refusing to get help
is the law enforcement officer.
Even a social worker would have
to call the law enforcement
officer to take that
person against their will
to get medical treatment.
Could we balance out things?
Maybe.
Right?
We also have to do
assessments of where
we think the issues are.
What do we think are the calls
that law enforcement should
be going on or maybe
shouldn't be going on?
And who would be
able to do that?
There's a lot of thought
we need to put into it.
I mean, are we going to tell
people you can't call 911
for everything?
And now, this is the
only list of things
you can call them for?
How would we train
people to not do that,
now that we've trained them to
call 911 if they need anything?
Right?
And our law enforcement
officers are not all the same,
nor do we ever want
them to all be the same.
The point is we no longer
have, what does the perfect law
enforcement officer look like?
Right?
Because we want them to reflect
everybody in the community.
We want them to think
differently and so
think all alike.
We want them to be able to
communicate differently.
A challenge is, how do
we get more of that?
I mean, we have a
lot of people that
are interested in being in law
enforcement that might be--
I'm just going to use a
stereotype for a second.
White males that grew
up in the suburb,
so they don't really have
exposure to diversity.
Well, should we discourage
them from following
the pursuit of law
enforcement because of that?
Or can we help give
them some education
that maybe can help their
cultural competency, that
may turn them in to be a great
community officer somewhere?
I guess that's probably
my burning question,
is, how do we take the
ones that are interested
and want to be a part
of it and make them
better, going into the law
enforcement profession,
or more equipped, or have
more tools, along with making
our programs more
attractive for those
in diverse and
underrepresented communities?
It's a balance
that we need to do.
Because then we go back
to Henry's question.
Are we expecting law
enforcement to do too much?
Well, if we had the right
people in there, we're not.
I don't know.
Because we have some great
people with military experience
that are awesome officers.
You would never have known that
they were over in Desert Storm,
right?
But we also need those that
haven't been in that mentality.
- There was a submitted
question earlier
related to whether there is
a focus in the curriculum
on understanding implicit bias
and processing experiences
with people of color.
It seems like that might
be a related question.
- Well, I would
like to answer that.
My big thing is I think
that if you have not been
raised in a diverse community--
and Midwest is not a
diverse place at all.
This is not.
When I first came
here, I had students
that say they never had an
African-American professor
before.
So I was news to them.
And then moving across the
country from the East Coast
here--
that was news to them.
Some had never been
on the East Coast.
So my encouragement is
to have our students--
whether they're in the
corrections, law enforcement,
criminal justice,
all three programs,
they need to spend time in a
diverse community and not one
that they claim to
be someone that's
going to appease
them in some way
or what they call a
safe space or whatever.
No.
You need to go to
urban America where
you might be patrolling
at some point
or working as a probation
officer at some point
and be a part of that
community, whether it
be working in a
shelter, whether it
be beating a street
with someone,
whether it be doing
some outreach work.
They need to go spend
time in those communities.
I have trouble taking
a student from a very--
a community where
there is no diversity.
And then all a sudden, they
have to work in a community
with lots of diversity and
cultural activities or values
and beliefs that are just
the exact opposite of what
they have.
So it's important that
they understand or have
a comfort level in interacting.
Most-- you have a lot.
Well, I won't say most.
But there are lots of
African-American students
on our campus that
come to this space.
And they're the only
person in their class.
And they can't
relate to anybody.
No one is African
American in their class.
I've seen that many a time.
And sometimes I'm the
only one in the class.
But how does that
student who is white--
how does that person--
they were put in a situation
where they were the only
white person in the class.
How then do you function?
What are the experiences
that you have?
And so they have to become--
get a grip on if they're
going to work in a field that
has a high level of diversity.
Because when you go
into corrections,
you have majority Black
and brown offenders there.
Unfortunately,
that's our reality
that I wish I could change.
But how do you go into a
discipline or a profession that
looks the exact opposite of you?
You say you want to police, but
you don't have any experience.
So how do we give
them that experience
in working with this
population before they
become professional?
I think it's crucial.
- Dr. Morris, would you
like to say something?
- Yeah.
No.
Well, I already
said what I-- there
was something I was looking
at in the questions.
And I was going to ask from
an outsider's point of view.
As an outsider,
my degrees are not
in the majors we're
talking about, more
as a consumer of those majors.
And that was, what do we see
as weaknesses in our programs?
And I can tell you,
when I first started
to ask the question
with my colleagues
here at the university, was,
do we have gaps in our program?
That was the word I used I
think missing there, that
would give our graduates a
better foundation for them
to be police.
Because again, a lot of
things happen to them
after they leave us.
So we can have the
best program here.
And things still
can happen to them
after they leave us,
to move them in a path
that we would not
like and take on.
Oh, that's a graduate of ours.
We wouldn't want to do that.
So that is the question.
Do we have gaps?
And I think that's one of
the things we're looking at.
And that's why we're asking
the community-- from community
members, from people who may
be interested in joining us.
Are there gaps when
you have interacted
with police or to corrections?
There was something
that you thought
was just a miss that would
help us figure out how we'd do
a better wrap-around program.
How do we look at those gaps?
What are they missing?
Now, I think there
may be some gaps.
But you don't know
what you don't
know until you look at it.
There may actually not be gaps.
Again, we don't
control everything
about people in
criminal justice.
So that's one of the things
that is-- we're asking
the question-- are there?
Which I think is the
first thing of learning.
- Another thing-- and
I was going to jump
on Sherrise's there, is part of
our job in education should be
to give our students a chance
to interact positively with
a community that's
different than theirs.
We don't want to just
give somebody a degree
and send them out into
a diverse committee,
whether it's an
immigrant community,
a domestic community.
If their very first interaction
with them is during a crisis
and that's how they
build all of their base
knowledge of that community
is off of a crisis situation,
then we're really doing
them a disservice.
So maybe part of it is
doing the public service
or maybe hearing
voices different than--
we joke in a way,
in our program.
Because we've tried to
hire more diverse faculty,
but we're all white, right?
So our professor that teaches
Policing in a Diverse Society--
he's really into sociology.
He loves the history.
He really focuses on implicit
bias and systemic racism.
But as he says at
the end of the day,
I'm a white law enforcement
officer who's now a professor
telling that to my law
enforcement students.
They need to be hearing
that from a voice
from a different community as
well in building those images,
right?
I think-- I know we
have that as a gap.
I have no idea how to correct
it or fix it at this point.
But they need to be building
positive interactions
with all sorts of
different communities,
not just where we come from.
And that's true of everybody,
not just white people.
It's true of everybody.
And that should be part of
our job in higher education
is to help build
those interactions
and relationships before we send
somebody out into the world.
To be a part of a global
citizenship in a community,
we should be able to relate.
And I wish I knew the magic
answer to fix that right now,
but that's what we're doing.
We're trying to get
some ideas to do that.
- Chris, can I jump in briefly?
I think, again, I don't have
the magic pathway either.
But there's things that
are coming down the road.
We've talked within social
and behavioral sciences
about building some new
structures for collaborations
within the college
that are really
centered around the
idea of public service.
And the general idea
is to whatever program
it has to be, just invite more
opportunities for collaboration
with other departments,
whether or not
it's gender and women's studies,
ethnic studies, sociology.
And then through
those collaborations,
we're making those
collaborations easier.
I mean, some of them
are going on already.
And I really tip my hat
to both Sherrise and Pat
for their work on
criminal justice.
Because I think that's the best
example, most pertinent example
right now of that collaboration.
But if we can make
it easier, then I
think that we
would say provide--
have an opportunity to provide
students and law enforcement
or corrections with
more opportunities,
perhaps through another
instructor and program
to have those
opportunities to engage
with outside communities.
So we're excited about that.
And I think, secondly, the
other thing that we really
have to do as a college
and a university
is really into both
potential students
and to the community, what
it is that we actually do.
And last year in social
and behavioral sciences,
we were able to hire a person
that specifically can assist
faculty in those
programs to reach out
to potential students
with marketing materials.
So it's one thing to
get back to recruiting.
It's one thing to recruit, but
you've got to have a message.
And all of us are very busy
in our own professions.
And we're not born
marketers, most of us.
So I think now that
we have a person that
can assist in that regard,
we'll be better positioned
to reach out to
potential students
and also community
members to explain
what it is that programs
such as corrections,
criminal justice, and law
enforcement actually do.
- Dr. Truesdale, did
you want to speak
to the issue of weaknesses
overall, we were talking about?
- I think we have
to-- as a university,
when it comes to our program,
we have to do a better job
at hiring Black and brown
faculty who are from domestic.
And the reason I say domestic
is because this issue
is very, very concerning to
the African-American community
and Hispanic community.
They've been born here,
raised here, and been dealing
with this all their lives.
And I think we have to do
a better job at building
that kind of community.
If you look at the
[INAUDIBLE] model,
his research talks about when
you have faculty, that teachers
look like their students.
They're more likely to
do better at school.
The conversations that I
have had with my students who
are of color in my office have
been quite different from those
who are white.
Some would be, this is what I'm
experiencing on my internship.
How can I deal with this?
Just last year, someone
was crying about the racism
that she was experiencing
on her internship.
And I had to have that
same conversation with her
that my mother had
with me, you see?
And we have to do a
better job at hiring.
We have to do a
better job at, who
are we connecting
our students to when
they're doing an internship?
I've heard disastrous
experiences
that I wish I could go
down there to those offices
and those agencies and correct.
But I can't always do that.
I can't always do that at all.
One of the reasons
why I created--
started teaching cultural
competency in corrections
is because of something
that I had witnessed myself
in Minnesota.
And I vowed I did not
want any of my students--
Black, brown, white immigrant
to have to go into a workspace
and see that.
So how do I make a
difference as a professor?
How do I make a
difference in terms
of improving not just their
experiences that they have
when they get there.
But you don't become that
professional that I heard.
How do I make a
difference in that way?
So I think about what I
can change in my space.
- We have two very related
questions, I think,
to that, Dr. Truesdale.
I just want to remind
everybody who's
with us that to continue to
submit questions or raise
your hand if you'd like
to express them orally.
We are scheduled to go
till 1 o'clock today.
But there are two questions.
And they both relate
to internships.
One question asks about
corrections, specifically
placing students in
internships amid a pandemic.
And the other question
asks about, is it possible?
Or would it be appropriate to
require a one-year internship
in diverse communities
for all students?
So perhaps we could
address these questions.
- I'll let Pat go first.
- I thought maybe
you wanted to talk
about how you're doing
internships in pandemics,
but I'll go first here.
- We can do both of us.
I was just-- didn't
want-- have all the time.
- Actually, I'll go first here.
I'm at Bess here, if you don't
mind, I'm going to unmute you.
Could you explain what
you would think about--
what do you think a
year-long internship
in a diverse community
might look like?
Because I'd be really
interested to hear about that.
So I'm going to unmute
you if you wouldn't
mind talking about that.
- You're talking to me?
- No, I'm sorry.
The person I allowed to--
- Who is that?
- Here we go.
I think I've got
her unmuted here.
Unmute.
Taylor, I might
need your help here.
- Is that Bess?
- Yes.
- Yeah, I'm trying
to unmute her, too.
- Hello?
- Oh, there you are.
Hi.
- Oh, hi.
- That's all right.
So what do you
think an internship
in a diverse community
might look like?
- Well, just off
the top of my head,
it's, how about spending a
year in north Minneapolis?
See how you can survive,
see how you can interrelate,
see how you can get along.
Or how about in the Somali
community near the U
of M, or the Latino
communities, or maybe take
the Hmong community in
St. Paul, or take turns.
Be in one for two months.
Another one-- maybe
learning another language.
That teaches you a lot about
the culture of the community,
the sensibilities, the way
the community looks at life,
which may be really different.
And I'm not from the
Midwest either, originally.
And I look at things quite
differently than Midwesterners.
So I think you can't learn that.
I know, Chris, you've
been in France.
So it's like going
to France for a year.
And you come out a
different person.
Because you see that your
way is not the only way.
And I think we have
people who don't travel
or who have not
spent time somewhere
else in another community.
They think their way is the way.
There is no other way.
And then they can freak
out if they go abroad.
And it's like, oh, we
have to use the toilet
with a hole in the floor.
How do I do this?
That kind of thing, just
different experiences.
So I think it'd be really
valuable for students
to be immersed.
I don't know if any of
you've seen The Wire on TV.
How would you survive as a
white person who never had
that experience in The Wire--
Baltimore?
So I just think it will give
people a different perspective,
a day-to-day thing.
Not necessarily being
a police officer,
but just living, relating,
buying your groceries,
et cetera, in another community.
- Thank you.
- Thank you, Bess.
I'm sorry to put
you on the spot,
but I wanted to hear
what your point is.
- Yeah, I'm glad
she stated that.
Because I lived in
Baltimore for 13 years.
And that's where
I ran my program.
And it's very true.
I've had to back away
from doors before,
dealing with some
of the population
that I was working with.
But I am interested in seeing,
Bess, how some of our students
would actually function there.
I had a student here
that's from Minnesota
that decided to do his
internship in Chicago.
And he came back
after his internship.
And he said, "Doc!
You weren't lying, honey!
You weren't lying!"
And he talked about his
experience and all the things.
And I said, how did it work out?
And it was eye opening for him.
It really was.
It was something that I
can't teach you in a book.
I can't teach you it all.
You have to go stand in those
spaces and figure it out.
- And then on the flip
side, because I actually
bought and rehabbed a house in
Jordan neighborhood in north
Minneapolis before,
while I was in college.
And I lived there
the first seven years
I was in law enforcement.
The flip side of
that is you realize
your neighbors are people.
You realize the people
in the neighborhood,
which could be multiple blocks,
are not all criminals, right?
You're only dealing with
maybe 3 to 4% of them.
And it's easy to lose
that perspective if you're
working overnight and all you do
is go 911, called to 911 call.
So I actually think
it's a great idea.
And I know there's a lot of
organizations and agencies
that could give both
sides of that perspective
where you could go.
And maybe things are
different than you thought.
Or maybe they are
also people that
are working, and struggling
to live, and making ends meet.
And not everybody is
a bad person, too.
That's our "us"
versus them philosophy
that we hear a lot
about in the media
that we need to try to address.
- And I'm glad you
said that, Pat.
Because the thing about it is
when we talk about The Wire,
there was a time
when I had students
that just automatically
thought that I came from--
I say, quote unquote,
"urban America."
I was raised in rural America,
outside of Charlottesville,
Virginia.
So they are just two
different experiences,
I can tell you that.
I was used to leaving
my door unlocked and all
this other kind of stuff.
But the point that
I want to make
is what Pat said, that
people are people.
And there are, for instance,
African-American churches
in these communities
where I went
to church in Baltimore that
are thriving, very political.
These people were-- if
they weren't the mayor,
they were the assistant to the
mayor, or they were teachers,
or they were janitors, or
they were all walks of life,
people who didn't have a
job, or the homeless man
on the street that decided
to come in and worship.
So I think that it's important
that Pat had said that,
that you will see
that they are human.
And your interaction
in those spaces--
you'll find that they're
still upstanding people who
care about their communities.
They want to have a
drug-free community.
They want to have
a safe community.
They go to church.
They go to school.
Where I got my
master's is not far
from the riots that was
in Baltimore, literally
a block away.
So I think that it was
important for Pat to say that.
- That's actually
something we battle
a lot in all three programs
is the media influence on what
they think is happening.
I mean, you look at all
the entertainment shows.
I mean, if you went off
their entertainment shows,
every police officer
you know would
have been in four shootings
and a chase every other week.
And every person they
arrest is a criminal.
And if you would
go to California--
Watson Compton you couldn't
do anything or even listening
to media in north Minneapolis.
There's such a large
geographic area.
And there's such a small
percentage of actual crime
that occurs there.
Yes, I know Sherrise
does this, too.
We battle the
media all the time.
- I heard Sherrise talk about
internship all over when
she was talking about--
Pat, is that currently
part of your program,
that students have to do
some sort of internship?
- No, we don't require an
internship at this point.
It's not so much that we
don't think it's valuable.
It is.
It would be just finding
the right internships.
Most of them want to do
internships in law enforcement
agencies, which is good.
But that also taxes our law
enforcement agency's ability
to host interns.
I mean, we have
one to two interns
at Mankato Department of
Public Safety every year,
every semester.
And we put them in
Blue Earth County.
The one thing that we
do get concerned about
is if people want--
require internships
up in the metro area.
Well, if they live
full time in Mankato,
how can they get
up to internships?
Or if they live full time up
in the metro area and commute
to Mankato, balancing that out.
It is probably something we
need to look at again, though.
- Would you think--
again, I'm part of the audience
here, is asking the questions.
What about internships?
Is what I think the woman
asked in social services
organization.
There are quite a
bit of non-profits
in southern Minnesota community
organization, so not just
prudence.
And you don't have
to answer it now,
but something I
think as a committee,
we may want to look at as we
evaluate what the program is.
Is there a wider range of
internships if that's decided,
make sense?
- Well, I'll put it on the list.
I think that's a good one.
- If I could respond to him.
And, Henry, I think that
working outside our discipline
as an intern.
If we were to require a
certain amount of time
before an internship.
Because you have
to understand how
to do the applied stuff
that you would get--
being trained to do.
Just have to do that.
But I think the best thing
to understand and learn
the community is what
Bess was saying, is
that go into these communities
and learn the culture.
Because that's
where you understand
how to interact best.
So it could be working
at a food shelter.
It could be working--
a lot of African-American
churches have programming.
It could be
something that you're
doing with the programming.
It could be something
that you're working in.
Not necessarily social work, but
some type of service driven--
where you're interacting
with everyday people.
It could be inside of
a school, something
where you're interacting
with everyday people.
If you're working
in your discipline,
you don't necessarily get that.
- We just have a
few minutes left.
And I know there is general
interest around the country.
And maybe Dean Loayza,
has some perspective
on this in terms
of how internships
in the College of Social and
Behavioral Sciences generally,
for example, are working
in an age of pandemic.
How is that working
for students?
You're muted.
- You're muted, Matt.
- Yeah.
I guess in short, I'd say
that is a work in progress.
And there are certainly
renewed challenges
that we need to figure out.
Without going into
express detail,
I guess I'd say in
the age of COVID, what
we want to do is provide the
best experiences for student
learning that are possible.
So in limited cases--
so again, if there is a way to
have those internships continue
in an online basis, we're
pursuing those opportunities,
just out of concern for safety
on both ends of the spectrum,
whether or not it's the
student or for the participants
in the partner agency.
If there really is no way
to replicate an internship
experience online,
then we've worked
to develop a clear set
of safety protocols
that both the partner agency
and the program and the student
will agree to.
They all expect that
all parties will
attend to CDC guidelines
for social distancing,
so forth, and so on.
So the programs in-- or
the internships in SBS
have followed a wide
variety, based on basically
what might be possible in
a face-to-face environment,
what might be possible
in an online environment
and just take it on
a case by case basis.
So without really
getting into the nuts
and bolts of all
of our programs,
I guess I'd start there.
And if there is
follow-up questions,
can certainly field those.
- Thank you.
We just have a few minutes left.
I don't know if, Dr. Nelson,
you'd like to close us out.
I know we have three
more of these sessions--
July 16, July 20, and July
22 if people are interested.
- And if you have
some ideas, I'm
always happy to take
those ideas, too,
if you think of them later.
Again, we are still
looking for people
to be part of work groups.
And it doesn't have to just be
members of urban communities.
We're looking for members of
all communities in Minnesota.
We have graduates that work
in every type of community
in Minnesota.
That's who we're educating
our students for as well.
So, please, if you're a smaller
community, a rural community,
we're still interested in
what you're thinking as well.
Again, we'll be
putting out information
on submitting a
letter of interest
to be a part of the work group.
And if you want to join us
for the rest of the sessions,
you can.
It's going to be
very similar, though.
We're just really opening
it up for some feedback
and talking about what we do.
And if you'd like to join us or
if you want to pass the word,
we appreciate that.
- OK.
Well, thank you very much.
All of our panelists
are readily available.
You can find them online
at the university.
You could contact them
via email or phone.
If you have any follow-up
questions or thoughts,
I'm sure they'd appreciate
your input as they're
evaluating their programs
and talking about how they
can enhance the educational
experiences of our students
as well.
So thank you very much
for joining us today.
And maybe we'll see
you at a future one.
But if not, please do let other
people know in the community
that they can
participate as well.
Thank you.
