THE A YEAR AGO THERE WERE
MASSIVE PROTESTS OUTSIDE THE
FACILITY.
PROTESTERS CLAIMING AT THE TIME
THAT UNDOCUMENTED IMMIGRANT
WERE FORCED TO STAND IN THE SUN
FOR HOURS ON END WAITING TO BE
SEEN FOR THEIR MONTHLY CHECK IN
SESSION .
MORE NOW ON DEVELOPMENTS IN
VENEZUELA.
A SHORT TIME AGO YOU WERE
SECRETARY OF STATE MIKE POMPEO
TOLD CNN THAT NICOLAS MADURO
WAS PREPARING TO LEAVE
VENEZUELA BUT WAS TALKED OUT OF
DOING SO BY THE RUSSIANS.
WE'RE JOINED NOW BY A
PROFESSOR OF POLITICAL SCIENCE
IN THE DEPARTMENT OF POLITICS
AND INTERNATIONAL RELATIONS AT
FIU.
THANK YOU FOR LENDING YOUR
EXPERTISE TO US THIS EVENING.
FIRST, LET'S TALK ABOUT RUSSIA.
WHAT INTEREST DOES RUSSIA HAVE
IN KEEPING MADURO IN THE
COUNTRY AND ALSO IF YOU COULD
EXPLAIN WHAT INTEREST THE U.S.
HAS IN OUSTING HIM.
THERE FOR TWO THINGS TO
EXPLAIN RUSSIAN INVOLVEMENT.
ONE, IT'S STICKING IT TO THE
U.S. THIS IS A WONDERFUL
OPPORTUNITY TO DO SO. BUT ALSO
RUSSIA OVER THE COURSE OF THE
LAST 20 YEARS HAS BEEN BUILDING
UP NOT ONLY MILITARY RELATIONS
WITH VENEZUELA, VERY STRONG
ONES, BUT ALSO ECONOMIC,
PRIVATE ECONOMIC INTERESTS,
ESPECIALLY IN OIL.
ABOUT 50% OF VENEZUELA'S OIL IS
NOW IN RUSSIAN HANDS.
THAT OF COURSE MAKES IT, I
THINK, A VERY LARGE CHIP TO GET
OUT OF VENEZUELA.
U.S. INTEREST IN VENEZUELA,
WHICH IS OUR BACKYARD SO TO
SPEAK, WE HAVE BEEN TALKING
ABOUT THE MONROE DOCTRINE.
SOMETHING VERY FEW
ADMINISTRATIONS HAVE BEEN
WILLING TO TALK ABOUT FOR MANY
YEARS.
IT WAS A BAD THING TO TALK
ABOUT.
AND YET TODAY UNDER THIS
ADMINISTRATION WE ARE GOING BACK
TO THIS LANGUAGE OF THE 20th
CENTURY, EARLY 20th CENTURY.
I HAVE TO SAY THAT THESE ARE
SOME STARTLING REMARKS THAT
I'VE SEEN. IMAGINE NICOLAS
MADURO WOULD BE READY WITH A
PLANE TO GO TO CUBA.
WHY WOULD THE RUSSIANS AT THE
LAST MINUTE -- DOES THAT'S
UNBELIEVABLE TO YOU TO SAY
STOP, STAY WHERE YOU ARE?
I THINK THAT PLANE IS ALWAYS
THERE.
THE PLANE IS ALWAYS READY AND
IT'S BEEN READY FOR A WHILE
BECAUSE I THINK IN FACT THE
GOVERNMENT OF VENEZUELA IS IN A
VERY WEAK SITUATION.
IT'S PROBABLY ACCURATE TO SAY
THAT THE MAJORITY OF
VENEZUELANS ARE READY FOR A
CHANGE AND THEY ARE READY TO GO
OUT ON THE STREETS AND DEFEND
MADURO.
-- . GUAIDO HAS ENOUGH SUPPORT
TO MOBILIZE A SIGNIFICANT
PORTION OF THE POPULATION AND
HE ALSO CONTROLS A VERY LARGE
PORTION OF THE MILITARY AND
MOST OF THE REST OF THE STATE.
YOU THINK RUSSIA HAS THE
KIND OF CLOUT THAT THEY COULD
SAY YOU STAY THERE?
I THINK SO.
ESPECIALLY BECAUSE VENEZUELA
HAS SUCH A LARGE DEBT TO
RUSSIA.
A LARGE ECONOMIC DEBT TO RUSSIA.
I THINK IT'S VERY MUCH THE CASE
THAT RUSSIA CAN CALL THE SHOTS.
WE'VE HEARD ALL DAY THIS
BACK AND FORTH ABOUT WHETHER
THIS IS A CREW.
GUAIDO SUPPORTERS INSISTING
THIS IS NOT A TO THAT HE IS A
LEGITIMATE LEADER IN COUNTRIES
AROUND THE WORLD RECOGNIZE HIM
AS THE LEADER.
OTHERS SAY THIS HAS ALL THE
HALLMARKS OF A COUP.
IS IT OR IS IT NOT?
I THINK IF YOU BEGIN WITH
THE PREMISE THAT NICOLAS MADURO
IS AN ILLEGITIMATE PRESIDENT,
THAT HE WAS ELECTED IN A
FRAUDULENT ELECTION AND THAT
HIS TERM, THE TERM HE WAS
LEGITIMATELY ELECTED TO AND DID
JANUARY 10, AFTER JANUARY 10 HE
IS NO LONGER A LITTLE BIT
PRESIDENT OF VENEZUELA
THEREFORE ANY ACTION AGAINST,
AS THE OPPOSITION CALLS IN,
THIS MAN WHO HAS USURPED POWER
IS REALLY AGAINST A DEFECTIVE
GOVERNMENT SO THEREFORE I AM
MORE CONVINCED BY THE ARGUMENT
THAT IT IS NOT A TO THAT IN
FACT IT IS A VERY LARGE CIVIC
MOVEMENT THAT BEGAN IN LATE
JANUARY AND CONTINUES TO THE
PRESENT.
I'LL BE GOING BACK NOW TO
THE COLD WHERE WHERE WE THINK
THE UNITED STATES TOOK ANY
MILITARY ACTION AGAINST
VENEZUELA IT WOULD BE AN ACTION
AGAINST RUSSIA?
I THINK WE'VE BEEN THERE FOR
A LITTLE BIT.
WE HAVE BEEN LARGELY REPLAYING
THE COLD WAR ALTHOUGH WITH SOME
REALLY DIFFERENT SETS -- RUSSIA
IS NOW NOT ON THE LEFT.
IT'S CLEARLY ON THE RIGHT AND
OUR INTEREST IN VENEZUELA, WE
ARE CLAIMING THAT THEY ARE
INTERESTED IN RESTORING
DEMOCRACY THERE.
BUT THE USE OF THE MILITARY --
THE MILITARY IS THE KEY.
WE HAVE A VERY UNFORTUNATE
HISTORY OF SUPPORTING MILITARY,
RIGHT-WING MILITARY COUPS IN
THE REGION.
THIS WILL BE AN INTERESTING
CASE WHERE WE ARE SUPPORTING
MILITARY ACTION TO RESTORE
SOMEBODY WHO COMES MORE FROM --
THIS IS ONE OF THE GREAT
CONFUSIONS.
GUAIDO IS A SOCIAL GRANDMA
DEMOCRAT.
HE COMES FROM ONE OF THE LAST
IS LEFTIST PARTIES IN VENEZUELA.
IT'S AN INTERESTING THING WE
HAVE A RIGHT-WING PRESIDENT IN
THE UNITED STATES SUPPORTING
ACTION IN FAVOR OF RESTORING A
SOCIAL DEMOCRAT.
DO YOU AGREE THE MILITARY IN
VENEZUELA REALLY HOLDS THE KEY
TO RESOLVING THIS?
I THINK IT DOES AND UNTIL
THE MILITARY, AT LEAST THE
LARGEST PART OF THE MILITARY
DOES NOT TURN OVER, THIS IS
