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>> Chris: THE BILL AND MELINDA
GATES FOUNDATION IS THE WORLD'S
LARGEST PRIVATE CHARITABLE FUND
GIVING $46 BILLION IN GRANTS
SINCE ITS FOUNDING IN 2000 AND
LITERALLY SAVING MILLIONS OF
LIVES.
THE MICROSOFT COFOUNDER CAME TO
WASHINGTON THIS WEEK TO MAKE THE
CASE FOR AMERICAN LEADERSHIP AND
THE NEED FOR FOREIGN AID IN THE
ERA OF AMERICA FIRST.
WHEN WE SAT DOWN AT THE CHAMBER
OF COMMERCE, THAT'S WHERE WE
BEGAN.
>> THERE WAS A RECOMMENDATION BY
THE EXECUTIVE BRANCH TO MAKE
FAIRLY SUBSTANTIAL CUTS U.S. AID
BUDGET AND FORTUNATELY THE
CONGRESS TOOK THAT PROPOSAL,
WHICH WOULD HAVE MEANT CUTTING
PEOPLE OFF FROM THOSE HIV
MEDICINES AND THEY DECIDED TO
MAINTAIN THE FOREIGN AID LEVELS.
>> Chris: YOUR WIFE MELINDA
RECENTLY TALKED ABOUT, AND I
WANT TO QUOTE HER DIRECTLY, HOW
INCREDIBLY DISAPPOINTING IT IS
TO SEE U.S. LEADERSHIP
DETERIORATING AND THE VIEW OF
THE U.S. DETERIORATING BECAUSE
OF SOME OF THE EGREGIOUS THINGS
THAT HAVE BEEN SAID BY THIS
CURRENT ADMINISTRATION.
WHAT'S SHE TALKING ABOUT?
>> I HOPE I KNOW.
I THINK A PARTICULAR EPISODE WAS
TALKING ABOUT AFRICA AND THE
CONDITIONS IN AFRICA.
NOT IN A POSITIVE WAY, SORT OF
CHARACTERIZING THE ENTIRE
CONTINENT.
>> Chris: YOUR TALK ABOUT THE
BLANK COUNTRIES?
>> EXACTLY.
IN THE U.S. ENGAGEMENT IN AFRICA
AND AROUND THE WORLD, THERE ARE
MANY REASONS WE SHOULD MAINTAIN
THAT.
JUST A PURE SECURITY POINT OF
VIEW ALONE WOULD JUSTIFY THIS
LEVEL OF EXPENDITURE.
FOR MANY PEOPLE, THE
HUMANITARIAN PART OF IT IS ALSO
THERE AND THAT PART IS DRAMATIC
AND SO IT IS DISAPPOINTING WHEN
IT FEELS LIKE THE U.S. IS BEING
SHORT-TERM IN THE U.S. IS ONLY
THINKING ABOUT ITS INTEREST IN A
VERY NARROW WAY AND NOT BEING
THE LEADER THAT SAYS WE ARE
GOING TO HELP THESE COUNTRIES
GET SO THAT THEY CAN TAKE CARE
OF THEMSELVES.
>> Chris: THE PRESIDENT'S
MANTRA IS AMERICA FIRST.
YOU SEEM TO BE SUGGESTING THAT
IN TERMS OF AMERICA'S INTERESTS
YOU'VE GOT TO LOOK A LONG WAY
BEYOND AMERICA FIRST.
>> I THINK THAT THE BROAD
DEFINITION OF OUR INTERESTS,
INCLUDING INVESTING IN ALLIES
AND NOT VIEWING EVERY
TRANSACTION IS ONE THAT WE HAVE
TO MAXIMIZE OUR BENEFIT, TAKING
WORLD INSTITUTIONS AND HAVE THEM
JUST FOCUS ON THE UNITED STATES.
WHAT WE DID IN TERMS OF THE POST
WORLD WAR II INSTITUTIONS HAS
BEEN A FANTASTIC THING.
THAT INCLUDED HAVING A COMMON
VIEW OF THE FUTURE WITH OUR
WESTERN ALLIES.
IF YOU REALLY FOLLOW THAT LINE
OF THINKING, THE IDEA OF HELPING
AFRICA, OF WORKING ON AN HIV
VACCINE TO STOP THE AIDS CRISIS,
YOU JUST WOULDN'T DO IT AND YET
I FEEL EVEN IN THAT NARROW
FRAMEWORK OF OKAY, I ONLY CARE
ABOUT HOW U.S. CITIZENS DO, EVEN
IN THAT FRAMEWORK THESE
INSTITUTIONS, THESE ALLIANCES,
THESE INVESTMENTS AND INNOVATION
ARE OVERWHELMINGLY SMART THINGS
TO DO.
>> Chris: SINCE THE YEAR 2000,
A BILLION PEOPLE HAVE LIFTED
THEMSELVES FOR WHAT YOU DEFINE
AS EXTREME POVERTY.
AND YOU SAY THAT THE FIRST WAVE
WAS IN CHINA AND THE SECOND WAVE
WAS IN INDIA.
BEFORE WE GET TO PLACES WHERE
THE WEIGHT HASN'T HIT YET, WHAT
HAPPENED IN THOSE PLACES?
>> ONE OF THE FIRST THINGS YOU
WANT TO DO IN THIS COUNTRY IS
CULTURAL PRODUCTIVITY.
ALL OF THE ASIAN MIRACLES, EVEN
GOING BACK TO TAIWAN AND JAPAN,
SOUTH KOREA, INVOLVED MORE THAN
TRIPLING OUTPUT PER PERSON.
SO YOU COULD FREE UP THE LABOR
AND MOVE IT INTO THE CITY.
AND IF YOU HAVE THE RIGHT
INFRASTRUCTURE, EDUCATION AND
INVESTMENT, AND YOU'VE GOT A
MANUFACTURING SECTOR OF THE
ECONOMY AND SLOWLY BUT SURELY
YOU GET A VERY LARGE MIDDLE
CLASS.
THE >> Chris: YOU TALK ABOUT
THE SUCCESSES, THE WAVES IN
CHINA AND INDIA AND THEN THERE'S
AFRICA.
YOU SAY THAT BY 2050, 86% -- 86%
OF THE EXTREMELY POOR PEOPLE IN
THE WORLD WILL LIVE IN AFRICA
AND IN FACT, 40% WILL LIVE IN
JUST TWO COUNTRIES, THE
DEMOCRATIC REPUBLIC OF CONGO AND
NIGERIA.
WHAT'S HOLDING THEM BACK?
>> Bill: VERY LOW LEVELS OF
INFRASTRUCTURE, VERY LOW LEVEL
OF PROPERTY AND ONE OF THE
THINGS THAT DRIVES THOSE
NUMBERS, WE MENTIONED, THE
POPULATION GROWTH.
THEY ACCOUNT FOR DOUBLE PORTIONS
OF BIRTHS YOU WOULD EXPECT.
BY THE END OF THE CENTURY, THE
MAJORITY OF BIRTHS IN THE WORLD
WILL TAKE PLACE IN AFRICA.
AFRICA HAS TO DEMAND OUR
ATTENTION.
THAT'S WHERE EXTREME POVERTY IS
STILL TOP.
THAT'S WHERE STABILITY IS
DIFFICULT TO ACHIEVE.
AND WE'VE GOT TO GO AFTER THINGS
LIKE DISEASES, MALARIA, WAS GLAD
TO HELP THEM WITH INFRASTRUCTUR
INFRASTRUCTURE.
WILLEY IN TERMS OF OUR HUMANITY
OF HELPING THE POOR, AFRICA IS
WHERE WE WILL BE MOST TESTED.
>> Chris: HOW DO YOU EVEN
BEGIN TO ADDRESS THESE
CONCENTRATIONS OF MISERY?
>> Bill: ONE OF THE GREAT
ACHIEVEMENTS IN DEVELOPMENT
HISTORY WAS WHAT WAS CALLED THE
GREEN REVOLUTION WHERE NEW
VARIETIES OF THE CROPS, CORN,
WHICH EVERYONE ELSE CALLS MAIZE,
RICE AND WHEAT.
IN A PERIOD WHERE PEOPLE THOUGHT
INDIA WOULD EXPERIENCE MASS
STARVATION BECAUSE THE OUTPUT
WENT UP.
THEY WERE ACTUALLY ABLE TO
IMPROVE THE NUTRITION EVEN WHEN
THEIR POPULATION WAS GROWING.
WE NEED TO DO THAT SAME THING
FOR AFRICA.
>> Chris: IT SEEMS THAT
CLIMATE CHANGE COULD BE THE
ACCELERANT TO ALL OF THE BAD
THINGS IN TERMS OF AGRICULTURAL
PRODUCTIVITY, GLOBAL HEALTH,
INSTABILITY, EXTREME POVERTY.
TALK ABOUT THAT.
>> Bill: FOR A COUNTRY LIKE
THE U.S., NORTHERN, CLIMATE
CHANGE WILL CHANGE THINGS.
MORE HOT DAYS, BUT IT'S NOT A
THREAT TO OUR SURVIVAL.
IN AFRICA, WHERE YOU ARE
COMPLETELY DEPENDENT ON THE RAIN
COMING, IN THE PAST ABOUT
1 OUT OF 12 YEARS OF FAILED
HARVEST, THE PREDICTION IS THAT
WE'LL BE CLOSER TO 1 OUT OF 4
YEARS BECAUSE OF THE HIGHER
TEMPERATURE AND UNFORTUNATELY
WITH CLIMATE CHANGE NOT ONLY IS
IT HOTTER, BUT THE RAIN COMES
ALL AT ONCE, OR IT DOESN'T COME
LONG PERIODS OF TIME.
SO YOU WANT TO SAY WHERE ARE YOU
GOING TO GET MILLIONS OF DEATH
BECAUSE OF CLIMATE CHANGE
BETWEEN NOW AND THE END OF THE
CENTURY, YOU DON'T LOOK TO THE
UNITED STATES.
YES YOU WILL HAVE SOME FOREST
FIRES AND THERE WILL BE SOME
DEATHS.
THE SIGNIFICANT NUMBERS ARE IN
THE VERY POOR COUNTRIES BECAUSE
OF THE FARMING.
>> Chris: WHAT DO YOU SAY TO
THOSE WHO SAY IT'S NOT CLIMATE
CHANGE, IT'S WHETHER AND AT THE
HUMAN COMPONENT IS QUESTIONABLE?
>> Bill: THAT'S IMPRESSIVE IF
SOMEBODY CAN SAY THAT OUT LOUD.
>> Chris: HAVE YOU BEEN TO
WASHINGTON?
>> Bill: A SUPER MEASURABLE
THING.
IT'S IMPORTANT NOT TO OVER CLAIM
WHAT WE KNOW BECAUSE THAT
UNDERMINES THE WHOLE DISCUSSION,
BUT THE GENERAL WARMING AND THE
MECHANISM OF THAT WARMING HAVE
TO DO WITH CO2 AND METHANE
EMISSIONS.
THAT'S REALLY NOT A QUESTION.
>> Chris: I WANT TO TALK TO
ABOUT TOILETS.
SINCE 2011 THE GATES FOUNDATION
HAS LAUNCHED TO REINVENT THE
TOILET CHALLENGE.
EXPLAIN, ONE, WHY THAT'S SO
IMPORTANT, AND TWO, AGAIN,
DEALING WITH THE SPECIFICS, WHAT
HAVE BEEN SOME OF YOUR SUCCESSES
AND FAILURES ALONG THE WAY?
>> Bill: IN MANY OF THESE POOR
COUNTRIES, THE COST OF BUILDING
THAT SEWER, IT'S JUST NEVER
GOING TO HAPPEN.
SO THE SOLUTION WOULD BE TO,
INSTEAD OF USING THAT SEWER, TO
HAVE SOMETHING IN THE TOILET
ITSELF, WHICH IS ESSENTIALLY THE
PROCESSING FACILITY.
TEN DIFFERENT UNIVERSITIES WHOSE
DESIGN WE FUNDED.
WE PUT IN SEVERAL HUNDRED
MILLION DOLLARS AND NOW WE'VE
GOTTEN IT TO THE POINT WHERE WE
HAVE A LOT OF COMMERCIAL
COMPANIES WHO SAY THAT APPROACH
LOOKS PROMISING.
THE PRICE OF THIS TOILET THAT
DOES THE PROCESSING IS STILL TEN
TIMES MORE EXPENSIVE, IT'S ABOUT
$10,000 PER TOILET RIGHT NOW.
TO GET INTO THESE TOUGH PARTS,
THE SLUMS OF THESE AFRICAN
CITIES, WE NEEDED TO BE MORE
LIKE A THOUSAND DOLLARS.
>> Chris: I WANT TO ASK ABOUT
YOUR OLD JOB.
SOMETHING OF A BACKLASH HERE IN
WASHINGTON AGAINST BIG TAX.
IF THE GROWING FEELING IN
WASHINGTON IS THAT BIG TECH DOES
NOT DO ENOUGH TO PROTECT USERS'
PRIVACY AND THAT IT SHOWS
POLITICAL BIAS.
DO YOU SEE MERIT IN EITHER OF
THOSE ARGUMENTS?
>> Bill: I WENT THROUGH AN
EPISODE IN THE LATE '90s WHERE
MICROSOFT WAS SUBJECT JUST
GOVERNMENT INVESTIGATION.
>> Chris: WE REMEMBER.
>> Bill: SO IN A WAY, IN A
SMALL WAY NOW IT'S LESS
MICROSOFT NOW, BUT IT'S BROAD.
YES, THE GOVERNMENT SHOULD BE
TALKING TO THESE COMPANIES ABOUT
WHAT THEY DO.
THERE'S NOTHING INAPPROPRIATE.
I WAS NAIVE.
I DIDN'T HAVE AN OFFICE IN
WASHINGTON, D.C.
I THOUGHT THAT WAS A GOOD THING
AND I EVEN BRAGGED ABOUT IT.
I LATER CAME TO REGRET THAT.
I'M SURE THESE GUYS ARE RUNNING
BETTER THAN I DID BUT THEY NEED
TO COME BACK HERE AND START A
DIALOGUE.
AND THERE WILL BE NEW TYPES OF
REGULATIONS FOR THESE COMPANIES.
>> Chris: AND YOU DON'T HAVE A
PROBLEM WITH THAT?
>> Bill: THE NOTION THAT THERE
WILL BE PRIVACY REGULATIONS,
THAT MAKES A LOT OF SENSE.
THE NOTION THAT THIS ABILITY TO
IDENTIFY ANYONE THAT WERE GOING
TO THINK ABOUT HOW DO BUSINESSES
GET TO USE THAT AND HOW DOES THE
GOVERNMENT USE THAT, IT MAKES A
LOT OF SENSE.
>> Chris: APPLE, AMAZON AND
MICROSOFT ARE RIGHT NOW
JOCKEYING FOR WHICH IS GOING TO
BE THE MOST HIGHLY VALUED
COMPANY IN THE WORLD IN TERMS OF
MARKET CAPITALIZATION.
AT THE CLOSE OF THE MARKET ON
FRIDAY MICROSOFT WAS NUMBER ONE
AT OVER $800 BILLION, APPLE,
$799.5 BILLION.
DOES THAT GIVE YOU ANY PLEASURE?
>> Bill: WHEN I WAS STARTING
MICROSOFT IN MY 20s, THE IDEA
THAT WE COULD CREATE A COMPANY
THAT WOULD BEAT IBM.
THEY WERE THE BIG MONOLITH AND
WE UNDERSTOOD SOFTWARE AND THEY
DIDN'T.
WE BELIEVED IN THESE SHOOTS,
QUEUED SMALLER MACHINES.
IT WAS KIND OF MYTHIC THAT WE
WERE GOING TO BE LIKE THEM.
BY THE TIME MICROSOFT BEGAN, NOW
15 YEARS AGO, IT DIDN'T FEEL
LIKE THAT BIG OF A VICTORY.
SO YOU REALLY -- IT'S REALLY
BETTER TO DEFINE YOURSELF BY AN
ASPIRATION.
CAN SOFTWARE IMPROVE EDUCATION?
CAN SOFTWARE HELP MEDICAL CARE
COSTS IN THE U.S., GOING UP
DRAMATICALLY.
CAN SOFTWARE PLAY A ROLE THERE?
I'M VERY PROUD OF MICROSOFT AND
THE VISION THAT SOFTWARE AND
TECHNOLOGY WOULD MAKE A BIG
THING.
IT HAS LED TO THE MOST VALUABLE,
THE FIVE MOST VALUABLE COMPANIES
BEING THESE TECH COMPANIES.
I DO THINK IT'S AN INDICATION OF
THE IMPORTANCE OF TECHNOLOGY,
WHICH NOW IS COMING WITH A LOT
OF RESPONSIBILITIES AS WELL.
>> Chris: IT'S AN HONOR TO
TALK TO YOU AGAIN.
>> Bill: THANK YOU.
>> Chris: AND IF YOU WANT TO
