>> WE ARE BACK AT THE TABLE WITH
THIS WEEKS LINE OPINION
PANELISTS.
WOMAN LIBERATIONS FRONT, A
NATIONAL FEMINIST ORGANIZATION,
ALSO KNOWN AS WOLF, IS
ATTEMPTING TO BLOCK NEW FEDERAL
GUYLINES FOR SCHOOLS, FOR
SCHOOLS, THAT CALL FOR
TRANSGENDER PEOPLE TO BE ALLOWED
TO USE BATHROOMS THAT ALIGN WITH
THEIR SELF-IDENTIFIED GENDER
RATHER THAN BIOLOGICAL SEX.
SOPHIE MARTIN, TO YOU FIRST.
THESE ISSUES COME UP OFTEN IN
THE PAST.
SOME STATES PASSED RESTRICTIONS.
STILL IN THIS PHASE WHERE WE ARE
TRYING TO FIGURE THIS OUT,
AREN'T WE?
>> INTERESTING YOU SAY IN THE
PAST BECAUSE THIS IS A REALLY
RECENT TOPIC FOR GOVERNMENT, FOR
EDUCATORS, ET CETERA.
I THINK WHAT WE SEE HERE IS I
THINK THE VERY NECESSARY BUT
VERY DIFFICULT KIND OF STRUGGLE
THAT COMES RIGHT IN ADVANCE OF
SOCIAL CHANGE.
IMPORTANT SOCIAL CHANGE.
SO, I THINK THIS LAWSUIT FROM
WOMEN'S LIBERATION FRONT
ENCAPSULATES THAT.
HERE WE HAVE A VERY COMMITTED
FEMINIST GROUP, I THINK, PERHAPS
MORE RADICALIZED THAN MANY
FEMINISTS ARE.
THEY HAVE A LONG TRADITION OF
ADVOCATING FOR KIND OF
DISSOLUTION OF GENDER
STEREOTYPES AND GENDER
IDENTIFIERS AND AT THE SAME TIME
THEY LOOK TO CREATE PRIVATE
SPACES FOR WOMEN.
HERE WE SEE THIS KIND OF --
THESE TWO IDEALS BUTTING UP
AGAINST EACH OTHER AND IN THEIR
LAWSUIT, I THINK THIS IS GOING
TO GET REALLY WONKY, GOOD WE ARE
ON PBS.
IN THE LAWSUIT THEY TAKE SOME
PAINS TO DISTINGUISH BETWEEN
GENDER IDENTITY AND NEW MEXICO
SUPREME COURT OR NEW MEXICO
CONSTITUTION, DOES THE SAME
THING, BETWEEN GENDER IDENTITY
WHICH IS WHAT THEY SAY IS A
CONSTRUCT.
WOMEN SHOULDN'T HAVE TO BEHAVE
THE WAY WE HAVE ALWAYS BELIEVED
WOMEN SHOULD BEHAVE.
MEN SHOULDN'T HAVE TO BEHAVIOR
THE WAY MEN ARE EXPECTED TO
BEHAVE.
AND BIOLOGICAL SEX.
BASICALLY WHAT THEY ARE SAYING,
WE THINK THAT BIOLOGICAL SEX
SHOULD BE THE DETERMINATE.
WHAT WE SEE FROM SCIENCE IS THAT
EVEN THE IDEA OF BIOLOGICAL SEX
IS QUITE FLUID.
WE CERTAINLY HAVE HEARD STORIES
OF CHILDREN WHO COME OUT OF THE
WOMB INDETERMINATE AND THE
DOCTORS AND THE PARENTS MAKE
DECISIONS FOR THEM THAT WILL
AFFECT THEIR ENTIRE LIVES.
BECAUSE, NO, IT IS NOT TRUE
EVERYBODY COMES OUT THE WOMB
CLEARLY A BOY OR CLEARLY A GIRL.
AS WE DEVELOP, I THINK, THROUGH
SCIENCE AND THROUGH OUR NATIONAL
AND INTERNATIONAL DISCUSSIONS ON
THESE TOPICS, A MORE
SOPHISTICATED UNDERSTANDING OF
GENDER, SEX, ET CETERA, I THINK
THIS APPLIES TO OUR CURRENT
DISCUSSIONS OF RACE.
IT APPLIES TO CURRENT
DISCUSSIONS OF MANY ISSUES.
MY HOPE IS THAT AS WE BECOME
MORE SOPHISTICATED, WE ARE MORE
OPEN, MORE UNDERSTANDING OF
PEOPLE WHO ARE NOT THE SAME OF
US.
>> IN THAT TRANSITION, IN
TALKING ABOUT UNDERSTANDING, IT
IS A BIG PILL TO SWALLOW IN THE
MEANTIME FOR A LOT OF PEOPLE.
THE IDEA THAT SOPHIE LAID OUT,
QUITE BRILLIANTLY, WHAT YOU
IDENTIFY VERSUS HOW YOU WERE
BORN.
THAT IS A BIG ONE.
THAT IS GOING TO TAKE TIME.
>> IT IS AND I THOUGHT SOPHIE'S
POINTS WERE SPOT ON ESPECIALLY
THIS IS NOT A PAST ISSUE, THE
PAST IS THE CURRENT.
THIS IS PROBABLY AN ISSUE THAT
SURFACED OVER THE LAST FIVE
YEARS AND PEOPLE -- ALL PEOPLE
DON'T CHANGE QUITE THAT FAST AS
FAR AS THEIR OPINIONS, THEIR
UNDERSTANDING.
THIS IS REALLY MAKING SURE THAT
THEY KNOW WHAT THE FACTS ARE.
IT IS A VERY POLARIZING ISSUE AS
WE HAVE SEEN --
>> IS IT ABOUT THE BATHROOMS?
YOU KNOW WHAT I MEAN?
THERE IS SOMETHING ABOUT THE
BATHROOM THAT SENDS PEOPLE INTO
ORBIT AS A SPACE WHERE WE ARE
SUPPOSED TO COMMINGLE AS PEOPLE
HERE WITH THIS NEW IDENTITY.
>> THE BATHROOM MANIFESTS THE
ISSUE.
I THINK THERE ARE A LOT OF --
YOU KNOW -- THERE ARE PEOPLE IN
THE WORLD WHO JUST CAN'T GET
THEIR MIND AROUND WHAT IS
HAPPENING.
SO, THEY ARE JUST SAYING, YOU
KNOW, THEY CAN'T GET THEIR HANDS
AROUND THIS, SO, YOU KNOW WHAT,
THE BATHROOM IS OFF LIMITS.
JUST A LACK OF UNDERSTANDING.
>> FOR A POLICY MAKER, WHERE DO
YOU GO WITH THIS?
IT IS NOT THE USUAL THING WHERE
YOU HEAR FROM YOUR CONSTITUENTS
AND YOU THINK ABOUT IT, WORK
WITH YOUR PEERS.
THIS IS WHOLE OTHER DECISION
PROCESS.
>> IT IS INTERESTING AND ONE OF
THE THINGS IT SHOWS A LITTLE
CRACK IN THE GBLT COMMUNITY AND
IT IS KIND OF INTERESTING THAT
SOMEONE LIKE ME WOULD SAY I
SUPPORT WOLF'S ACTIONS, BUT, I
DO, BECAUSE SAFETY IS A TWO-WAY
STREET.
YOU HAVE GOT TRANSGENDER PERSONS
IN A MEN'S BATHROOM AND WE'RE
CONCERNED ABOUT FREEDOM ON THAT
FRONT, BUT THEN WE HAVE GOT THE
POINT THEY ARE MAKING THAT WOMEN
CAN SUFFER GREATER ACTS OF
VIOLENCE AND POSSIBILITY OF
BULLYING AND ASSAULT IN AN
ISOLATED ARENA.
SO, KIND OF INTERESTING
DISCUSSION THERE.
I DON'T AGREE WITH WOLF ON THE
WEBSITE, THEY SAY GENDER MUST BE
ABOLISHED BECAUSE GENDER IS PART
OF A MALE DOMINATED PATRIARCHAL
SYSTEM, BUT THIS WHOLE IDEA OF
STEREOTYPES IS HUGE.
WHAT IS A MAN?
WHAT IS A WOMAN.
WE HAVE STEREOTYPES FROM THE
PAST BUT IN THIS NEW FRONTIER,
ROLES ARE DIFFERENT.
MY DAD, YOU KNOW, NEVER CRIED.
I AM CRYING AT EVERYTHING.
I AM VERY EMOTIONAL.
I FEEL THE FREEDOM TO DO THAT.
SO IT IS INTERESTING.
I THINK PETER, OPENLY GAY
BILLIONAIRE, SPOKE AT A
CONVENTION AND SAID, YOU KNOW,
THIS BATHROOM ISSUE IS REALLY
DISTRACTING US FROM THE REAL
ISSUES.
I THINK THERE IS SOME VALUE IN
THAT BECAUSE REALITY IS TARGET
HAS SOLVED THIS PROBLEM.
UNM SOLVED THE PROBLEM.
WE HAVE MALE, FEMALE AND PRIVATE
STALLS.
THE SOLUTION IS VERY EASY.
THE PROBLEM REALLY IS THE
ABSURDITY BEHIND SOME OF THE
POLITICAL ACTIONS THAT ARE TAKEN
WHETHER IT IS, YOU KNOW, BY
EXECUTIVE ACTION, THE FEDERAL
GOVERNMENT COMING IN AND SAYING,
ALL BATHROOMS MUST BE AVAILABLE
TO TRANSGENDERED STUDENTS.
I HAD TEACHERS TELL ME, YOU
KNOW, MADISON MIDDLE SCHOOL,
WHAT HAPPENS IF A BOY TELLS ME
THAT THEIR IN TRANSITION AND
THEY ARE IN THE GIRLS BATHROOM;
APS.
SO, THE ABSURDITY OF ACTION AND
THEN IDEOLOGY THAT GOES TOO FAR.
FOR INSTANCE, MY DAUGHTER-IN-LAW
IS A DOCTOR AND SHE WAS TOLD AT
SOME OF THE HOSPITALS, PLEASE
DON'T CALL YOUR HUSBAND A
HUSBAND, BECAUSE IT OFFENDS SOME
PEOPLE.
I MEAN, IT IS RIDICULOUS.
>> I WOULD FIGHT BACK ON THAT
ONE.
>> GROW UP AMERICA IN SOME WAYS.
>> ALICIA, MAYBE IT IS NOT THE
BATHROOM.
IT IS A SCHOOL THING.
THIS IS WHERE AMERICA COMES
TOGETHER; OUR YOUNG PEOPLE, THIS
IS WHERE INITIAL FRICTION UP
AGAINST EACH OTHER.
IDEA THAT SENATOR WOULDN'T BE
ALONE ON THE IDEA IF A BOY IS
JUST SAYING, I AM IN TRANSITION,
WHETHER WE BELIEVE HIM OR NOT,
KNOWN THIS IS FACT OR NOT, THAT
BY LAW, LITERALLY, THAT BOY CAN
WALK INTO THAT YOUNG WOMAN'S
ROOM.
IS THAT OKAY?
SOME PARENTS HAVE AN ISSUE WITH
THAT.
>> IT IS INTERESTING THAT THEY
BROUGHT UP THE FACTS OF SEXUAL
ASSAULT.
I FEEL LIKE IF SOMEONE IS GOING
TO COMMIT SEXUAL ASSAULT THEY
HAVE PROPENSITY TO COMMIT SEXUAL
ASSAULT.
I DON'T KNOW THAT IT IS BECAUSE
SOMEBODY HAS WALKED INTO A
BATHROOM AND THERE IS AN
OPPORTUNITY IN PLACE.
WHAT WE DO SEE HERE IS THERE IS
MORE EVIDENCE OF TRANSGENDER
PEOPLE BEING PHYSICALLY
ASSAULTED WHEN THEY ARE FORCED
TO GO TO THE BATHROOM THAT
RELATES TO THEIR GENITALIA.
THAT IS THE OTHER SIDE OF IT.
THE OTHER THING THAT REALLY
CONCERNS ME IS CREATING THAT
THIRD BATHROOM SYSTEM.
IT REMINDS ME ON A LARGER SCALE,
OBVIOUSLY, BLACKS ONLY, WHITE'S
ONLY WATER FOUNTAINS.
IT IS FURTHER STIGMATIZING THOSE
FOLKS.
I AM NOT SURE THAT IS THE
SOLUTION EITHER.
>> IS THE SCHOOL THE PLACE TO
START?
IT IS AN OBVIOUS PLACE TO START
BUT IN YOUR MIND IS IT OKAY TO
START AT SCHOOLS OR SOMEWHERE
ELSE TO TRY TO FIGURE THIS OUT.
>> THEY HAVE STARTED IN OTHER
PLACES, JUST THAT THE SCHOOLS
ARE BEING HIGHLIGHTED MORE
BECAUSE IT IS PROBABLY A BIT
MORE CONTENTIOUS.
WE ARE GOING TO HAVE TO DO IT IN
THE SCHOOLS.
>> SOPHIE, IN ABOUT 30, 45
SECONDS, LOOKING DOWN THE ROAD,
WE ARE AT THE BEGINNING OF
SOMETHING HERE, DO WE HAVE A
THIRD BATHROOM?
IS THAT THE SOLUTION.
>> I THINK IT WILL BE THE
SOLUTION IN SOME PLACES.
I THINK WE ARE GOING TO SEE A
LOT OF KIND IMPERFECT LET'S SEE
HOW WE CAN MAKE IT WORK KINDS OF
THINGS, IN THE MEANTIME.
I DO WANT TO SAY, THE THOUGHT OF
AN 8 YEAR OLD BOY WHO IS NOT
TRANSGENDER, ANNOUNCING, I AM
GOING TO USE THE GIRL'S ROOM
GIVEN THE TREMENDOUS SOCIAL
PRESSURE THAT THERE IS STILL TO
CONFORM TO GENDER NORMS, SEEMS
PRETTY UNLIKELY.
WE ARE SEEING FEAR ABOUT LITTLE
KIDS, YOU KNOW, MIDDLE SCHOOL
AND HIGH SCHOOL AS WELL, I
UNDERSTAND, BUT ABOUT KIDS AND
WE ARE TALKING ABOUT
STIGMATIZATION OF KIDS.
THESE ARE NOT PREDATORS, THEY
ARE KIDS.
>> THE GRAND AMERICAN EXPERIMENT
GOES ON.
THAT IS ALL THE TIME WE HAVE.
THANKS FOR BEING HERE GUYS.
GOOD STUFF THIS WEEK FOR SURE.
>> I AM GENE GRANT, THANKS FOR
JOINING US THIS WEEK NOR NEW
MEXICO INFOCUS.
WE APPRECIATE YOUR TIME AND
EFFORT TO STAY INFORMED AND
ENGAGED.
SEE YOU NEXT WEEK, INFOCUS.
>> FUNDING FOR NEW MEXICO
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CHARITABLE FOUNDATION, AND THE
NELITTA E. WALKER FUND FOR
KNME-TV, KNME-TV ENDOWMENT FUND
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