EL CHAPO IS THE NOTORIOUS DRUG
KINGPIN WHO ESCAPED PRISON IN
MEXICO FAIRLY RECENTLY, AND HE
WAS EXTRADITED TO THE
UNITED STATES, WHERE HE IS
CURRENTLY AWAITING A TRIAL.
HE IS IN NEW YORK, ACTUALLY.
AND SO, THERE IS AN INTERESTING
ARGUMENT BEING MADE NOW BY
HIS APPOINTED LAWYERS, WHO ARGUE
THAT, HEY YOU KNOW WHAT?
MAYBE HIS PRESENT CONDITIONS ARE
A LITTLE BIT TOO HARSH, AND
AS A RESULT WE ARE HAVING A HARD
TIME GIVING HIM A FAIR SHOT
IN OUR JUSTICE SYSTEM.
LET ME GIVE YOU THE DETAILS.
GUZMAN IS RESTRICTED TO HIS
NEW YORK CITY SELL FOR 23
HOURS A DAY, WITH THE LIGHTS ON
AT ALL TIMES.
HE HAS ONE HOUR OF EXERCISE IN A
SMALL INTERIOR CAGE WITH NO
ACCESS TO FRESH AIR OR SUNLIGHT.
HIS CAPTIVITY APPEARED TO BE
UNNECESSARILY HARSH, AND IN
CONTRAVENTION OF MINIMUM UN
STANDARDS FOR THE TREATMENT
OF PRISONERS.
THAT WAS A STATEMENT MADE BY
AMNESTY INTERNATIONAL.
AMNESTY INTERNATIONAL CLAIMS
THEY ARE GOING TO DO
FURTHER INVESTIGATIONS OF THIS,
TO DETERMINE WHETHER OR NOT
HIS PRESENT CONDITIONS ARE FAIR,
AND WHETHER OR NOT IT GETS
IN THE WAY OF TRUE JUSTICE IN
THIS CASE.
"WE WILL CONTINUE TO INVESTIGATE
CASES OF ALLEGED IMPROPER
TREATMENT OF PRISONERS,
REGARDLESS OF WHO THE PRISONER
IS OR WHAT THEY HAVE DONE."
I'M CURIOUS WHAT YOU ALL THINK
OF THIS, BECAUSE WE MIGHT
BE ALL OVER THE BOARD ON OUR
OPINIONS.
RAY, YOU START.
I'M SPLIT, BECAUSE ON THE ONE
HAND I DEFINITELY BELIEVE
IN THE FAIR TREATMENT OF ALL
PRISONERS, AND ON THE OTHER
HAND I KIND OF DON'T GIVE A DAMN
ABOUT EL CHAPO.
MAYBE HIS PRESENT CONDITIONS ARE
HARSH, BUT MAYBE THEY ARE
HARSH COMPARED TO THE MICKEY
MOUSE RESORTS THAT HE
ESCAPED FROM TWICE IN THE PAST.
THE SECOND PART OF THAT IS WHAT
REALLY GIVES ME PAUSE HERE,
BECAUSE IT DOESN'T MATTER HOW
BAD THE GUY IS, WE CAN'T TORTURE
HIM AND DO UNUSUAL THINGS, AND I
THINK SOLITARY CONFINEMENT
IS IN ESSENCE TORTURE.
JERRY SANDUSKY IS A PIECE OF
CRAP, AND LIKE, THE WORST
GUY ALIVE.
THERE ARE 1000
OF THOSE CASES, DOES NOT MEAN WE
SHOULD PUT THEM IN A HOLE
AND LEAVE THEM IN SOLITARY
CONFINEMENT FOR 23 HOURS A DAY.
BUT, EL CHAPO IS A GUY WHO HAS
BROKEN OUT OF MANY PRISONS.
HE SAYS THEY WON'T LET HIM CALL
ANYONE OUTSIDE, WELL YEAH, THE
LAST TIME HE CALLED SOMEBODY
OUTSIDE, THERE WAS A MILE LONG
TUNNEL DUG UNDER THE PRESENT.
SO HE HAS THE WORST CASE TO BE
MADE, AND EVEN STILL IT
SOUNDS A LITTLE BIT HARSH.
I DISAGREE.
THIS IS ONE OF THE RARE
SITUATIONS WHERE I THINK
THESE RESTRICTIVE PRISON
CONDITIONS MAKE SENSE.
HE'S NOT SOME RANDOM PERSON WAS
INVOLVED IN THE DRUG TRADE.
HE WAS, OR IS, A HIGHLY
CONNECTED PERSON, WHO HAS A
NETWORK OF INDIVIDUALS THAT ARE
WILLING TO DO WHATEVER IT
IS TO HELP HIM GET OUT.
AND NOT NECESSARILY GET OUT OF
OUR PRISONS, OR ESCAPE OUR
PRISONS, I WOULD ARGUE THAT IT
MIGHT BE A LITTLE MORE
DIFFICULT HERE, BUT NONETHELESS
HE IS A RISK, AND I THINK
THEY ARE TRYING TO DO WHATEVER
IS POSSIBLE TO ENSURE THAT
HE IS NOT WHEELING AND DEALING
WHILE HE'S IN PRISON,
BECAUSE THAT'S SOMETHING THAT
HAPPENS AS WELL.
YOU HAVE PEOPLE INSIDE STILL
MANIPULATIVE THEIR DRUG
RINGS, SO I THINK THAT IS WHAT
THEY ARE CONCERNED ABOUT.
IT'S ALWAYS RISKY WHEN YOU HAVE
DIFFERENT STANDARDS FOR
DIFFERENT PEOPLE, RIGHT, SO SOME
PEOPLE WOULD SAY, WELL EDWARD
SNOWDEN IS A TRAITOR.
I WAS GOING TO SAY HE'S A
TRAISOR.
HE TREATERED.
HIM OR PRIVATE MANNING.
THEY TORTURED HIM, AND THEY HAD
BULLSHIT REASONS WHY THEY
DID IT.
I'M PRETTY SURE THAT IF YOU ARE
RUNNING A PRISON YOU SHOULD
BE ABLE TO KEEP THE MOST VISIBLE
GUY IN YOUR PRESENCE OCCUR,
AND IF YOU CAN'T, LET'S HAVE
SOMEBODY ELSE COME UP WITH
A PRISON.
I UNDERSTAND, I'M NOT BEING SO
PATHETIC TO THIS GUY I'M SAYING
WHAT THEY CAN THEN DUE TO ñ I'M
NOT BEING SYMPATHETIC TO THIS
GUY, I'M JUST SAYING WHAT THEY
CAN THEN SAY THEY WANT TO
DO TO ANYBODY.
I DON'T KNOW IF THE STATE SHOULD
BE ENFORCING TORTURE ON ANYBODY.
I THINK WE CAN LOCK UP ñ WE LOCK
UP TERRORISTS IN OUR COUNTRY AND
WE DON'T HAVE TO DO THAT TO
THEM, DO WE?
I'M SURE WE ARE GIVING THEM
INSANELY STRICT AND HARSH
CONDITIONS AS WELL.
THERE ARE SOME COMPONENTS OF
THIS THAT I AM WILLING TO
HAVE A CONVERSATION ON.
LIKE WHETHER OR NOT I WANT TO
HAVE A CONVERSATION MATTERS.
THE FBI IS LIKE, HEY ANA I
HEARD YOU WANTED TO HAVE A
CONVERSATION.
BUT IF I HAD TO ADJUDICATE THIS
SITUATION I WOULD SAY, WE
DON'T NEED TO LEAVE THE LIGHTS
ON FOR 23 HOURS A DAY.
BUT THE GUY SLEEP, IT'S REALLY
HARD TO SLEEP WITH THE
LIGHTS ON, WHATEVER IT IS.
BUT I REALLY UNDERSTAND WHY THEY
WANT TO ISOLATE HIM, ESPECIALLY
WHEN YOU UNDERSTAND HOW POWERFUL
AND CONNECTED HE IS.
FUNNILY ENOUGH I THINK EVERYBODY
IS RIGHT, EVEN THOUGH WE
ARE DISAGREEING.
LET ME EXPLAIN.
OF COURSE JIMMY, WE HAVE TO HAVE
THE SAME STANDARD FOR EVERYBODY.
WE CAN'T SAY, WELL I REALLY
DON'T LIKE THAT GUY.
THAT'S THE WHOLE POINT OF A
SENTENCE, YOU SHOW THAT YOU
DON'T REALLY LIKE A GUY WHEN YOU
GIVE HIM A LIFE SENTENCE, OR,
HEY THAT WASN'T SO BAD, YOU GET
ONE YEAR.
THAT'S HOW WE ADJUDICATE.
ON THE OTHER HAND, THERE ARE
SOME UNIQUE SITUATIONS THAT
CALL FOR SOME VERY SPECIFIC
MEASURES.
SO, EL CHAPO IS A GUY WHO COULD
CALL THE OUTSIDE WORD, AND COULD
HAVE PASSWORDS, AND THEY HAVE
HAD IN THE PAST, AND SAY LIKE, I
HOPE JOE IS DOING OKAY, AND THAT
MEANS LIGHT, MURDER JOS…
IN
SINALOA.
IF YOU GET A HACKER, AM I GOING
TO GIVE HIM ACCESS TO THE
COMPUTER AT THE PRISON LIBRARY?
PROBABLY NOT.
SO, YOU CAN MAKE JUDGMENT CALLS
THERE, CASE-BY-CASE.
A REALLY DANGEROUS HACKER,
PRESUMABLY.
BUT, THAT DOESN'T MEAN THAT YOU
KEEP HIM IN A HOLE FOR 23
HOURS, AND YOU DON'T LET HIM SEE
SUNLIGHT.
THERE HAS TO BE SOME BARE
MINIMUM GUIDELINES TO HOW WE
TREAT HUMAN BEINGS, EVEN IF THEY
ARE EL CHAPO.
SO, LOOK, WE ARE ON THE SUPER
RIGHT-WING DRACONIAN EDGE
OF THAT WHEN YOU LOOK AT THE
REST OF THE WORLD.
IN NORWAY, IT'S UNBELIEVABLE
WHAT THE PRISONERS GET DOT IN
BREVIC, THE GUY WHO MURDERED
ALL THOSE PEOPLE, INCLUDING
CHILDREN, IS COMPLAINING THAT HE
STILL ONLY HAS PLAYSTATION
THREE, THAT THEY HAVEN'T
UPGRADED IT TO PLAYSTATION
FOUR YET.
THAT'S THE WORST MASS MURDERER
THEY EVER HAD.
WE GO WAY OVER THE TOP WITH
SOLITARY CONFINEMENT AT THE
TOP OF A HAT, WHEN IT IS FOR
SURE TORTURE.
THIS IS HIS LAWYER, SO I DON'T
KNOW IF IT'S TRUE, BUT THEY ARE
SAYING THAT EL CHAPO IS ALREADY
IMAGINING PEOPLE IN HIS
ROOM AND HAVING VISIONS THAT
DON'T EXIST.
BUT THAT IS BELIEVABLE, BECAUSE
IT BREAKS US PSYCHOLOGICALLY.
8TH AMENDMENT, WE ARE SUPPOSED
TO DO THAT, AND AS HUMAN BEINGS
WE SHOULD NOT DO THAT TO OTHER
HUMAN BEINGS, BECAUSE IT'S NOT
ENOUGH TO SAY THAT THEY ARE THE
BAD GUYS, WE ARE SUPPOSED TO BE
THE GOOD GUYS.
