[MUSIC PLAYING]
SPEAKER 1: I want to jump
in at the very start.
How did "Critical
Role," really begin?
It grew out of the house
game, but how did you
take it from that to this
massive digital entertainment
conglomerate that you are now?
MARISHA RAY: Oh, man,
that's a big question.
MATTHEW MERCER: I think we're
still figuring that out.
MARISHA RAY: Yeah.
SPEAKER 1: Five words or less.
MATTHEW MERCER: Felicia
Day asked us to.
That's how it started.
We were just playing at home.
I've been playing
since high school.
And I dragged this guy
and a few other people
who had never played
before in for a one
shot that turn into a home
campaign for a couple of years.
So in a conversation between
Ashley Johnson and Felicia
at a party, she mentioned
this D&D game of voice actors
and they were just ramping up
their content on Geek & Sundry,
and she went, why don't you
guys do that on the network?
And we went, what?
People will watch us play D&D?
No.
TRAVIS WILLINGHAM: We were
more skeptics than anything.
We were like, nobody
is going to watch this.
We'll do it one time,
like 15 people will watch.
And we'll be like,
OK, that was fun.
MATTHEW MERCER: And
even then, there
was like some workshopping,
because the initial idea was
pre-Twitch.
It was like, you guys will
play the game for a bit.
And then, for the
boss fight, you
jump into like the
D&D video game.
And I'm like, no.
We just want to play our game.
This is still our game.
MARISHA RAY: Yeah,
it was very hard
describing to people
who didn't really
play "Dungeons and Dragons"
how that completely
broke "Dungeons and Dragons."
And then eventually,
when Twitch came around,
it was just full live format.
We're not changing
anything about our game.
And we're like, OK, that's
pretty much the only way you
could do this,
but no one's going
to watch four hours
a week of D&D.
TRAVIS WILLINGHAM:
Little did they know.
MATTHEW MERCER:
And now we're here,
so life is a strange scenario.
TRAVIS WILLINGHAM: Yeah,
for us as a company too,
it's been sort of perpetual
catch up, we always call it.
We've always been
taken by surprise
at the fan reaction, the
numbers, how it keeps growing,
and how it expands
into new things.
So we've just tried to
play catch up as it grows.
Yeah, I got it.
Have you got that?
MATTHEW MERCER: I got it.
TRAVIS WILLINGHAM: OK.
Over here.
I got this one over here.
We got to bring
people in for this.
Yeah.
MARISHA RAY: Well, and
the Twitch algorithm
is weird, not to out any of our
friends a Twitch or anything.
But when you only see the
concurrent number of viewers
watching at a time,
that's a little hard
to gauge how many
people in total
are actually aware in
watching your show.
So I think it wasn't until
the first New York Comic Con
that we went to and we ended up
having a line around the block,
and we were like--
TRAVIS WILLINGHAM: Oh, no.
MARISHA RAY: Oh.
I think more than 10,000
people watch our show.
I don't think that's accurate,
unless all 10,000 are here
in New York City.
So that took some
time to get used to.
TRAVIS WILLINGHAM: What was it?
It was like a comic
book store, and we're
like oh, we'll just
take the quarter front
part of your store.
And we'll sign some
autographs for anybody
that happens to come in.
And it was out and around the
corner and that cop came in.
He's like, who's this for?
What's this like for you?
Who is this?
And we're like, it's for us.
We're "Critical Role."
MARISHA RAY: We play
"Dungeons and Dragons."
TRAVIS WILLINGHAM:
He's like what are you?
[LAUGHING]
MATTHEW MERCER: It's weird.
SPEAKER 1: Speaking of playing
catchup, as an LA commuter,
the podcasts have
been a lifesaver.
MATTHEW MERCER: Good.
So happy to hear that.
SPEAKER 1: What's been the
inspiration behind some
of your newer offerings,
"Handbooker Helper,"
"Between the Sheets,"
"All Work, No Play,"
what's been the driving
force behind that?
MARISHA RAY: When we first
branched off and decided
to do our own
content, I broke down
into a Venn diagram what
made "Critical Role"
intriguing and successful.
And it's clearly not
just because we're people
playing "Dungeons and Dragons."
There's a lot of D&D
shows, and none of them
have exploded in the way
that "Critical Role" has.
And so if one half is the
fascinating piece of "Dungeons
and Dragons," I think
the other half is
our relationships as friends.
And we've known each
other for so long.
And being voice actors,
we've gotten really good
at the give and take of
interpersonal relationships,
both on stream and off stream.
So I wanted to experiment with
what people were engaged in.
So we broke down the content
into three categories, which
was personality based, which
is like "All Work, No Play" was
pretty much straight
personality based,
gaming based, which is what
"Handbooker Helper" is,
and then kind of
right down the middle
with "Between the
Sheets," we were talking
a little bit about how we came
into becoming storytellers
as professionals.
So it worked pretty well.
We found that people are
engaged in us as personalities.
MATTHEW MERCER:
Which is still weird.
MARISHA RAY: Yeah.
MATTHEW MERCER: I say
this only because, I'm--
MARISHA RAY: It's interesting.
MATTHEW MERCER: I have
my own insecurities
[INTERPOSING VOICES]
TRAVIS WILLINGHAM:
I heart you, Matt.
MATTHEW MERCER:
Oh, you're sweet.
TRAVIS WILLINGHAM: I heart you.
MATTHEW MERCER: But it's
been a fascinating catchup
to try and figure out why things
have gone the way they have
and breaking them down
and then going, really?
OK.
Cool.
MARISHA RAY: So it
was kind of that--
so it was why does
our content work?
And then, the other
later half of the goal,
which is what do we want
to do with our content?
What is the goal of our content?
And we discussed
a lot as a company
that our mission with
"Critical Role," in general,
is to tear down the
barriers into storytelling,
and to let everybody know that
everyone can be a storyteller.
There's a story
behind all of us,
and don't be afraid to get out
there and tell these things,
whether it's in your own
personal "Dungeons and Dragons"
group, whether it's fan
fiction, whether you're trying
to start a vlog yourself.
Try to lower the
barriers to entry.
So that's where "Handbooker
Helper" came from,
was trying to not have
people be so intimidated
by the players handbook, and
to just get people playing.
MATTHEW MERCER:
There's nothing harder
than going to a bunch
of people who have never
played a role
playing game, like I
want to try out some D&D. Cool.
Read this.
[BOOM]
TRAVIS WILLINGHAM:
Yeah, I was out.
I was out. uh-uh.
I opened up like, wizard,
and I was like, nope.
Calculus-- nope.
No, thanks.
I want an axe.
Can I hit things?
Cool.
Just tell me as we go along.
That's all I need to know.
I watched the "Handbooker
Helper" videos and I'm like,
oh.
But three years--
MARISHA RAY: Six
years later, yeah.
[LAUGHING]
SPEAKER 1: But, I mean,
there's so many pictures.
It's practically a
picture book, really,
like all of this player
handbooks, you know?
MATTHEW MERCER: Oh,
straight up, yeah.
This table is technically
a picture, right?
Technically.
A very square, repeated
picture with numbers.
Travis?
TRAVIS WILLINGHAM: No.
SPEAKER 1: And Marisha, you
were mentioning that all of this
was about letting people
tell their own stories
and that's all nice,
but was it really
just a matter of getting
Sam and Liam into a hot tub
and recording that?
Is that the main goal?
[LAUGHING]
MATTHEW MERCER: I mean,
if we're being honest--
TRAVIS WILLINGHAM: Oh,
you cut to the core of us.
MARISHA RAY: What can
I subject my friends to
and say, oh, it's
for production.
People will love it.
It's great.
SPEAKER 1: Cool.
So I want to touch
on a little bit more
of turning this home game
into this internet phenomenon,
and your own relationships with
D&D as a game and as a system,
almost.
So how did each of
you start playing D&D?
What was your
first introduction?
TRAVIS WILLINGHAM: Well, I
can say the first time I ever
played was at Matt and
Marisha's apartment for the very
first game that we ever had.
I had remembered hearing about
D&D from people, other voice
actors, like Gary Lowenthal,
and Crispin Freeman.
And when they talked about it,
I was always really intrigued.
From a video game
perspective, there
are open sandbox
type games where
you can go wherever you want to
and engage in certain missions
as you want, but
you're still limited
by whatever is programmed.
And the first time
that we played,
I was very meek and timid.
And Matt was asking
me things like,
what's your character's name?
And I was like oh, shit.
Uh-- Grog.
And He was like, OK, Grog.
What does your
barbarian Goliath do?
I was like, what do you mean?
He was like, what's
his back story?
I was like, he makes
fine leather boots.
And he was like, OK.
We'll get there.
And later on in the game, when
there was this intimidation
moment with a tavern keep,
he was like what do you do?
And I was like, I mean, can
I do it whatever I want?
He goes, you can certainly try.
And I just-- the first thing
that came off my head and he
just went with it and rolled
with it, and I was like oh my--
oh my god, literally, anything
that pops into my head,
you will try and roll with.
And so the limits off
of like what you can try
were just taken off.
And that to me, was the
real hook, the real drug.
Because it was like,
oh jeez, yeah, I'm
not limited in any way.
And I think I had never
viewed "Dungeons and Dragons"
in that way.
And then came all
the other things
with the complex characters
and the storylines
and just keeping up with what
everybody was doing in the game
and how invested you
become as more clay gets
slapped on the sculpture.
And so that's where I
fell in love with it.
I was like oh, man, I had
a preset idea about what
this book was and maybe how
it was played because of what
media, back in the '80s and '90s
told us, and I was just wrong.
MARISHA RAY: Both
Travis and I were
spoiled because Matthew Mercer
was our first dungeon master.
So that's hard to recover from.
TRAVIS WILLINGHAM:
Yeah, for real.
You're Bey.
Matt Mercer is Bey.
MARISHA RAY: Yeah,
I didn't get that
into "Dungeons and Dragons"
until I moved to Los Angeles.
Because I'm from Kentucky
and the satanic panic
is still very much
kind of a thing there.
It basically eradicated D&D and
now it's slowly coming back.
MATTHEW MERCER: Don't do that.
TRAVIS WILLINGHAM:
Well, Kentucky, Texas,
we got a Southern thing.
It's--
[INTERPOSING VOICES]
SPEAKER 1: I'm
Missouri, so I'm down.
TRAVIS WILLINGHAM: See there.
Double woo.
Slap hands.
MARISHA RAY: But half
of the country-- woo.
And then I was deeply
interested in trying.
And we met through
mutual friends.
And just came to you
one day, and we're
like, can you-- can
you run a game for us?
And then after that, I went
and did a few other games,
but just kept coming
back to Matt Mercer.
TRAVIS WILLINGHAM: Dang it.
MATTHEW MERCER:
First one's free.
MARISHA RAY: Free-- I was going
to say, once you get a taste--
TRAVIS WILLINGHAM: Part
of your master plan.
MATTHEW MERCER: Exactly.
I started in high school.
I was a freshman and was just
joining this anime video game
club called the Popular
Arts Club that I eventually
became president of and
met Sandra here, actually.
The guys who were
running it at the time
were all these like
track and field,
like really fit,
awesome kind of guys.
And they're like, hey,
Matt, want to play some D&D?
I'm like, sure, what's that?
Whatever.
I'll do whatever you want.
You guys are cool.
TRAVIS WILLINGHAM:
Is that homework?
Am I doing it for you?
What is it?
MATTHEW MERCER: And so, they
brought me into the game.
And as soon as I started
reading the books--
I'd seen some of
the art and things,
might have had kind
of an interest,
but never actually dove into it.
And it just consumed
me entirely.
And so I built this
really elaborate character
and this whole theme.
And I was so excited to play.
And then I started
playing with them.
And they're great guys,
terrible, terrible gamers.
I love them to death, but
it was really frustrating
because I was the
only one that seemed
to be trying to push a story,
and they were just like,
I want roll high
numbers and fool around.
I remade Ryu as a warrior.
I'm shooting Hadoukens.
Let's go fight at an In and Out.
I'm like, I don't--
what?
Really?
TRAVIS WILLINGHAM:
At and In and Out?
MATTHEW MERCER:
Yeah, that happened.
We traveled to modern day
and went to an In and Out
and had a burger
and gained a level.
TRAVIS WILLINGHAM: Oh no.
MATTHEW MERCER:
This is legitimately
one of the sessions
that happened.
But I got frustrated
and was like,
I know this can be bigger.
I know this can be better.
So I left that game and
started running my own, invited
two of my good friends to play.
And I've just been dungeon
mastering ever since.
And it's through that
space with my friends
that I've kind of come out
of my shell as a person.
I'd gotten enough nerve
to start doing theater.
I learned a lot about
kind of honing my ability
to be social as an awkward
artist kid growing up.
So I've been D&D, while you guys
were fully formed human beings
by that time it came around
to you, for the most part.
It was very much a
proto experience for me
to figure out who I wanted
to be and take steps
in that direction.
So I'm very thankful for it.
TRAVIS WILLINGHAM: OG.
MATTHEW MERCER:
Not as OG as some.
[LAUGHS] I'm always
like, yeah, I played,
you know, back in the mid '90s.
And then I meet
guys at conventions
that are really awesome
and they're like, bitch,
I've been playing since '73.
And I'm like, yes,
sir, whatever, sir.
Respect.
SPEAKER 1: Do you
remember what all
of your first characters where?
We know Grog.
MATTHEW MERCER: [INAUDIBLE]
TRAVIS WILLINGHAM: Yeah.
MARISHA RAY: I do.
What was her name?
She was a control ranger class.
It was 4E.
MATTHEW MERCER: Right,
because it was fourth edition.
MARISHA RAY: It was weird.
I don't remember
her name though.
But I remember she was
a-- wasn't she a drow?
MATTHEW MERCER: She
was a drow, yeah.
MARISHA RAY: Yeah.
Because everyone's
first D&D character
is always a drow ranger.
TRAVIS WILLINGHAM: Mine wasn't.
SPEAKER 1: [INAUDIBLE]
good drow ranger.
Did you also use two centaurs?
MARISHA RAY: Probably.
MATTHEW MERCER: A
little panther with you.
[LAUGHS]
MARISHA RAY: Yeah.
MATTHEW MERCER: I think my first
character wizard was a wizard.
But I imagined the visual
of Gandalf with a sword
in "Lord of the Rings."
I'm like, I want a
wizard that uses a sword.
And so there was a militant
wizard kit for second edition.
And was I like, heck yeah.
I'm going to be a wizard with a
sword, so when I'm out of magic
I can get to the front lines.
That's a bad idea, by the way.
Second edition
wizards especially.
You have like three hit points.
You should not go to the front.
And his name was
Emeritus Trent, because I
was a big Piers Anthony
Xanth nerd growing up,
and so I used that name.
TRAVIS WILLINGHAM: Wow.
MATTHEW MERCER:
But classic story.
He was a young,
apprentice wizard,
but his parents were
mysteriously killed
and he had-- you know, every
other D&D character ever made.
So that was my first character.
Not my proudest moment,
looking back, necessarily.
But you have to start somewhere.
You have to start somewhere.
TRAVIS WILLINGHAM: It's so
funny how the backstories
are all kind of similar.
I remember before the
second campaign and Matt
was like, when you're
making up your backstory,
don't be afraid to let
your parents be alive.
[LAUGHING]
And I was like, eh, OK.
MATTHEW MERCER: Being a hero
is a pretty dangerous career
in fantasy realms, but being a
parent is twice as dangerous.
The minute you have a
kid in a fantasy realm,
your chances of survival
are cut in a quarter.
TRAVIS WILLINGHAM: Oh,
you're having a kid?
Oh, sorry.
[LAUGHTER]
SPEAKER 1: So what would
you say is your, now,
with all of your experience
creating characters,
creating worlds, what is
the process for which you
could create another character?
When "Critical Role," season
3 happens, or god forbid,
your character dies?
TRAVIS WILLINGHAM: When
we all TPK this week.
MARISHA RAY: Yeah.
MATTHEW MERCER: Shh.
SPEAKER 1: I'm
only on episode 22.
TRAVIS WILLINGHAM:
The fear is real.
MATTHEW MERCER:
Just be smart, guys.
TRAVIS WILLINGHAM: We're
in constant fear of TPK,
so it's OK.
SPEAKER 1: So what
is your strategy
to create your characters?
TRAVIS WILLINGHAM: Mine-- so
Grog was just one little thing
and then the next and the next.
And then I think I kind
of carried that over.
I was one of the last people
to come up with my character.
I just had writer's
block, or whatever.
And it was a flight
back from Australia,
where I was stuck on a plane,
and my wife was asleep,
and I was like, OK,
write one sentence.
I wrote one sentence.
And then I was like,
and then, add to that.
And then maybe he has this.
And it just kind of like
snowballed from there.
So that's kind of how I did it.
I don't have a--
there were some
people who were like I
know the class, the
race, I know exactly what
I want them to look like.
I'm like, ah.
How?
But maybe they're just already
on that ship before it sails.
So yeah.
MARISHA RAY: Yeah,
I think there's
kind of two basic ways
you can go about it.
You can be inside-out
person, and be like,
I know I want to be a ranger.
I know I want to be a dwarf.
I know I want to
be these things.
And then go from there.
Or you can go the
opposite way, and be like,
I feel like I want to be a
circus roadie and I used ropes.
And I'm just really
into collecting knives.
And then you can kind
of go from there.
And then be like, well what
works as like a knife wielding
circus roadie?
And then find a class and
design around that way.
And that's become
the way that I've
become more interested
in building characters.
But it doesn't say that
sometimes I'm just like, uh--
cleric.
I'll be that.
But when I made Beau--
because I think Keyleth was
more of an inside-out person.
I was like I'm going
to be a half-elf druid
and then go from there.
With Beau I was
like, OK, I know I
want to be a little
bit more tactical.
I basically wanted to be
like a D&D Jessica Jones,
like if Sherlock
Holmes was super
messed up and kind of a juvie.
And then I went from there
and built around a monk.
MATTHEW MERCER: I've been
DMing most of my life,
so I don't get to create
a lot of characters.
SPEAKER 1: But they create
characters, literally,
every day.
MATTHEW MERCER: Well, that's--
that's the difference between
trading your player character,
which is a long investment.
MARISHA RAY: You just made Orly.
MATTHEW MERCER: I did.
Well, no, the
community made Orly.
That was a communal effort,
literally, a communal effort.
MARISHA RAY: You contributed.
MATTHEW MERCER: For
me, when I have played,
I tend to wait till everyone
else creates their characters
and then see what's missing.
I'm a fan of filling that void.
I tend to play support,
in that regard.
I want you guys to all
find what you enjoy,
and then I know I'll
find fun in whatever
will make this a well-rounded
experience for everybody.
Besides, there's nothing worse
than going to a gaming table
and everyone shows up
with the same character.
TRAVIS WILLINGHAM: Yeah,
see glue is so important.
And this campaign,
in the first one,
we were like, make sure
that everybody has something
that hasn't been repeated.
But I think you were the only
one for this current campaign
that was like, don't pick that
cause somebody else already
has it.
But we were hiding
it from everybody.
And I was like, I want
to build a team though.
I want to make sure that--
[INTERPOSING VOICES]
MATTHEW MERCER: I didn't say
don't pick it somebody else,
I said you can overlap classes.
Don't worry about
that, because you
can build two of the people
of the same class in very
different ways.
And we're seeing that now
with Caduceus and Jester.
They're both
clerics, but they're
two very different
types of clerics.
But that also involves having
a little bit of knowledge
together.
And you guys were
all being so secret,
trying to keep your
characters from each other.
I was doing this delicate
dance of like, OK, how
do I make suggestions or nudge
them so they don't end up
accidentally showing up
with the same characters,
but not tell them what to make.
So you guys actually
did a pretty good job
of finding different
paths, though, I will say.
TRAVIS WILLINGHAM: We got lucky.
MATTHEW MERCER: Yeah, actually.
SPEAKER 1: So you haven't
created characters super
recently, but I am very
interested in hearing
about how you build up a world.
You have this amazing
gift to just set the stage
and to create these
incredibly vibrant locales.
You're like a wizard
at Dwarven Forge,
You have all these skills
to build up environments
and people and worlds.
How do you approach that?
How do you start?
It's like, well, there's
going to be a town
and there will be
some people in it,
and then this person is a farmer
who has serious father issues,
or whatever.
How do you do it?
MATTHEW MERCER: It depends.
If you're just
building in a void--
if you're just like, I'm
going to build a world.
I don't a story attached to it.
I don't have players
attached to it.
I'm just building a world.
Then it can be very
overwhelming to think
of the large scale of things.
Some people do better creating
the cosmic end of it first.
Let me create the Pantheon and
the gods and the creation myth.
And then from there,
I can work down.
To me, that's very overwhelming
for a lot of people.
It's much better to start
small, like, all right,
I want to make a mining town.
And say, this town makes a
lot of money off its mining
apparently, so there's mines.
It's got other mines nearby.
A lot people here probably
work in some form of mining
or are selling
supplies and tools.
So I'll make some supply
and general stores
that work in that avenue.
People live here, so they have
to have a means of eating,
so maybe there
will be some farms.
And so you start building out
the very, very gentle kind
of ecology of how
that city will work.
And then you start seeing what
different factions in there
might work.
If there's miners, they have,
probably, some sort of union
or a guild that runs them.
And they probably have
competitive elements
inside there.
And if there is
commerce, of course,
there is probably going
to be some people that
work to feed from that commerce,
to try and make a living
without putting in the effort.
Or they couldn't get
a job, so now they're
trying to do what
they can to survive.
Maybe they're organized as well.
So then you start
creating like--
TRAVIS WILLINGHAM:
See, this is why
when I hear that you read rocket
science in your spare time,
I'm not surprised.
What?
What?
It's incredible.
MATTHEW MERCER: And when
you have that structure--
TRAVIS WILLINGHAM: Oh god.
[LAUGHING]
MATTHEW MERCER: Then you start
working on personalities.
And so, if you work on who
are the heads of these guilds?
Who are the major players in
the politics of this city?
Who are the people that would be
the most likely for the players
to encounter to be
positive quest givers,
or in to draw them into
the narrative of what
kind of conflicts you've
created in this town,
and what individuals
might be the antagonists?
What powers outside
of the people
and the political structure
are threats to the lives
of those that live there?
And how does that
tie into the mines?
And so it's starting
with the small structure
and then just
start rationalizing
how it would work
together, filling
in the gaps of what's missing
to make it feel like it's living
and breathing, and
then from there,
decide where the
conflict would arise.
And then you have a town.
And once you have that town
done, you make another.
And what's in between that
journey from town to town?
You have you have a trip there.
Are there hills
where bandits live?
Is there an area where a bunch
of owl bears have been roosting
and the last season they had
a lot of kids or whatever,
and now there's an owl
bear overgrowth where
they're attacking
people left and right.
And then you just
expand and expand.
That's all I think
about these days, guys.
It's a problem.
[LAUGHTER]
TRAVIS WILLINGHAM: That was
five words or less, right?
SPEAKER 1: Yeah, I think so.
I often think of owl
bear ecology as well.
MATTHEW MERCER: See?
Yeah.
The things that
keep us up at night.
SPEAKER 1: So the common
rule of thumb, I've heard,
is for DMs, for
an hour game time,
there's usually an
hour of preparation.
What's that ratio for you?
MATTHEW MERCER: That's
changed over the years.
It used to be that way.
I'd say four hour of
game time, was an hour
of prep for the many years
I was running on my own,
depending on, sometimes, a
little shorter even, if it
was like oh, it's just me
and three of my friends,
and we're just going
to be improvising
our way through this.
It'll be fine.
When we began doing
the show, and it
began to find an
audience, and I realized
that there are people
creating wikis and checking
over all the
consistencies in my world
and having arguments over
forums about different facets
of the universe.
So I'm like oh, no.
I have to make sure this
is all consistent now.
So I'd say my prep time
has probably doubled,
just because part of it
is the creation process
and the other half is me
paying very close attention
to my internal lore and to keep
it consistent with everything
I've already said.
And that involves
sometimes going back
and researching to my old notes
and double-triple checking
things.
And I put out a campaign
guide a year and a half ago.
And that was a new
experience of going through
all my old mad-man scrawlings
from campaigns in sessions
past, and going oh, god, I
have to make this legible
to a normal human being.
Oh, god.
So I had deconstruct all that.
It's been a very unique
adaption process, definitely.
SPEAKER 1: Cool.
So D&D can be a very
personal experience.
The attributes that
you can create or add
to your characters can be
deeply personal, sometimes
of a very sensitive nature.
The moment that is
freshest in my mind
is Sam Riegel playing Nott,
having this real issue
with coming to terms
with being a goblin,
and just feeling
uncomfortable in his own skin.
What are your thoughts on D&D
as being this unique game where
these kind of
issues can come out
and they can be
explored in a safe way?
MATTHEW MERCER: I mean, I
think that's one of its biggest
strengths.
I think it's a safe space,
especially when you have
a group of friends that
you trust at the table
to step into the shoes
of another person,
whether it be someone that
you want to be more like
or somebody that is
not like you at all
but you want to try and
connect with and empathize
with experiences outside
of your own personal ones.
It's a place to explore
these themes safely
and talking amongst each other.
And whenever any
anybody crosses a line,
you discuss that
and talk about it,
and that person learns
about boundaries as well.
It's a really great place
to learn to fine tune
empathy and self-esteem and
really discovering the things
in life that you appreciate and
the things you want to change.
And it's been that for me
for the past 20 plus years.
And even just-- and
at the same time,
finding friends that you
feel comfortable enough
that you can explore that with.
This guy, before
we started playing,
I knew you passingly from
projects we'd worked on.
And it was like oh
yeah, Travis, he's
that big guy who probably
beat me up in high school.
Like you know--
TRAVIS WILLINGHAM: Oh, no.
MATTHEW MERCER: No.
That's what saying-- that's what
I assumed, because you were--
TRAVIS WILLINGHAM: Give
me your lunch money, Matt.
[LAUGHING]
MATTHEW MERCER: End scene.
But through this game, I
trust you with my life.
You find these friends that you
go through these experiences
together and you find
like-minded individuals that
have been through these
adventures with you,
and I don't know?
There's no other bonding
experience quite like it,
in my opinion.
MARISHA RAY: I genuinely
believe that D&D
can improve almost every
aspect of your life,
in some way, shape, or form.
It's helped me with
decision-making under pressure.
It's helped with the
leadership abilities.
I genuinely think-- we had this
realization a few months ago
that our team and our company
worked so well together
and has done so well because
we've been playing and working
together as a team in this
make-believe fantasy setting
fighting dragons and
being in the trenches
with each other for years.
So when we have this imaginary
memory formed together
of us taking down an
empire or fighting dragons,
then you're like, oh, we can
easily tackle this contract.
We could do that.
That's something we can
get through together.
And even to the
therapeutic benefits
of D&D. And we hear a lot-- and
I'm a big supporter in people
using "Dungeons and
Dragons" for special
needs kids or people needing
therapeutic benefits.
Or, like you said, to
work through things.
It gives this
alternate reality where
you can take risks
and experience things
and you can fail without
real-world repercussions.
So it's great.
I love it.
MATTHEW MERCER: I
think to that point
too, a lot of people, when
they start playing the game,
it begins this
fantasy fulfillment.
It's-- I want to make
the best character I can.
I'm awesome.
I'm the hero.
And you begin to learn
that, in most cases,
in order to survive and
to see the story through,
you have to know
what you're good at,
what your friends are good at,
and respect that place when
that is necessary.
And through that, you learn
wonderful team-building
exercises in knowing how best
to work within that team,
know what your strengths
are, when to step forward,
and when to step back and let
somebody else step forward.
And that plays directly to how
we've all come to this company.
When we all decided to--
we realized-- we didn't
decide to-- we realized
we had to make a company.
Like I said, everything's
been reactionary.
We're like OK, what's
everybody going to do?
And that would be a
hard place in many times
in my life with other
people, where it's like,
well, we all want to be this.
We all want to do this.
In this, we are all fit
right into our roles,
because we all knew
what we were good at.
We all respected what
each other was good at.
And it was the easiest
creation of a company
I could ever have expected.
And I owe a lot
of that, I think,
to us having the experience
of gaming together.
SPEAKER 1: So I do want to
switch directions, momentarily.
So Travis, throughout
the month of November,
you've been sponsoring
Operation Supply Drop.
Do you want to tell us
a little bit about that?
Why you got involved in it?
TRAVIS WILLINGHAM: Yes.
So obviously, Veteran's Day
is just one day in November.
But I remember, back in
2013, was the first time
that I heard about
Operation Supply Drop.
They're this great charity
that really support
military families and
members through active duty,
through their transition
into civilian life,
and then afterwards.
I have a very deep
military family.
My father, my uncle,
my brother all served.
And I've seen
throughout the decades,
the impact I think
that the military has
had on their lives.
And when I saw what
Operation Supply Drop was
doing with these crates, these
drops, that they'll do it for,
at operating bases, out at
certain training centers,
the impact was just immediate.
And I remember my brother being
out in Afghanistan and saying,
we got this crate in
today, and it had an Xbox,
and it had "Call of Duty."
And all these guys that
I've been bunking with,
we have a certain
level of tightness.
But when we sat down
at the end of the day,
and things had been maybe
hairier than we had expected,
we came in exhausted, we were
able to play and sort of have
that level of escape together.
And we really felt
like we were back home.
And it really rejuvenated
us for the next day.
I was like man,
that's so important.
And it's not just video games.
And it's tabletop stuff too.
They also send D&D and
other things that put people
at a table together,
promote eye contact,
let them let them
communicate and engage
with each other in a
way that I just don't
think they would without it.
And they've really moved
past that to also providing
these skill training centers.
So they teach them
how to put together
a resume-- what can you
expect in the workforce
and in job interviews
and things like that.
And I think those
are skills that
are kind of grossly lacking
when people find themselves out
of the military.
People go in for a
variety of reasons,
whether to serve or to
find their way into college
or something like
that, but you never
really know what you're going to
come out of the military like.
Sometimes, it leaves
a little mark,
and sometimes, it
leaves a big one.
And I think that these
sorts of charities
are just so important
to make sure
that we're letting the people
that serve something that's
larger than themselves,
know that we are thinking
about them as well.
So this month, "Critical
Role" has paired with them.
If you have any interest, you
can go to "Critical Role--"
no-- critrole.com/OSD and we
have a video and some more
information there.
And we're donating all the way
through the month of November.
And I just love
the organization.
And I think we're going to
do a charity for first-person
shooter stream, because I
used to be decent at those,
and now kind of suck.
So we're going to let people
hop on and abuse me for a while.
SPEAKER 1: I'm super happy
with all of the charitable work
you've done or that
you've fundraised for.
You've had Pablove.
You've had Operation
Supply Drop, obviously,
826LA has been a
long time recipient
to your charitable givings.
I'm interested in
knowing what drives
all of this charitable giving?
One thing that
really attracts me,
and like a lot of other folks,
I'm sure, to "Critical Role,"
is that you're always looking
out for the nonprofits that
are helping the local area.
You're always looking
out for other people.
And it's not just
a matter of, OK, we
need to make the next dollar.
We need to make the next dollar.
It's what can we do to
make our community better?
TRAVIS WILLINGHAM: Yeah, I
think we realized pretty early
on that as the spotlight on
"Critical Role" got bigger,
we had the ability to affect
really positive change
in the world.
That was something that was
really important to all of us.
826 was something
that we started--
who was it that first found--
MATTHEW MERCER:
That was Marisha.
TRAVIS WILLINGHAM:
Yeah, actually.
MARISHA RAY: Yes, it
was me and Talliesin
[INTERPOSING VOICES]
TRAVIS WILLINGHAM: And they have
them all throughout the nation,
but it was something
that I think really
benefited from a very unique
perspective that we have.
And when the response was as
big as it was, we were like man.
We went around.
We were like what are
individual charities?
What are the things
that we would want
to focus on, given the chance.
And so we're trying to
work our way through that
and find ways to
just give back more.
It's one thing to just say let's
make as much money as we can
and try and grow this company
and do all those things.
But on the inside, the thing
that makes us feel good
is when we have those
connections with each other
and we foster positive,
empathetic fans
and communities.
And to us, these
sorts of charities
just embody the things that
we really think are important.
MATTHEW MERCER:
Well, consider too,
a lot of what we do with
our stories and our company
is try and tell tales of
heroism and inspire other people
to rise up and be
their own hero.
But this is a world
where there's not
always the opportunity
to do so, or find places
where you can really
contribute and be that hero.
And I think charitable work
is one of the great ways
that you can do that.
And so, not only does it
give us the opportunity
to help out, but
really the community,
give them the opportunity too.
And no matter what chaos
they're in, no matter
what busy-ness is
consuming them,
they can actively contribute to
changing somebody else's life,
and then see the effect of
that through this community.
And community is such
a big part of this.
As much as this
is like, oh, it's
our company and our
game and everything,
we may be the beating
heart of this thing,
but the body and
the world around it
is the community that
sprung out of it.
And the sheer amount of positive
good enforcement and work
that all the people that
have rallied around this show
have done, it dwarfs anything
that we could ever hope to do.
And I'm just so proud
of being a part of that.
MARISHA RAY: It was so
like self-explanatory.
There was really
no other option.
It felt like it just
presented itself,
as soon as we started
making just an appearance
fee from the show.
We were like this is "Dungeons
and Dragons," this is--
TRAVIS WILLINGHAM: We
were doing this anyway.
MARISHA RAY: --weird.
Yeah.
And so it only felt natural to
be like, how can we spread this
in any way, shape, or form?
And then, that's why we also
encourage people so much
to go down to 826LA, an
826 branch in their area
and to teach kids D&D
and start a D&D club.
And we initiated one at
826LA that's still going on.
And we've heard of several in
other 826 sanctions-- yeah,
cities--
branches-- that's the word I
was looking for-- branches--
that it's taking off there,
too, which just warms my heart.
SPEAKER 1: Thank you for
all of the charitable
giving you do, the shows
that you put on every week.
And thank you for being here.
And now, we'll open it
up to audience questions.
MATTHEW MERCER:
What's your name?
AUDIENCE: My name is Rula.
MATTHEW MERCER: Hi, Rula.
AUDIENCE: I'm a big
fan of you guys.
We watch every week.
One of the things about
being a voice actors,
your voice is more associated
with the characters
that you guys play.
But now, because of D&D and
because of "Critical Role,"
and everything that you
guys do, your voices
are more associated with your
faces than anything else.
How has that changed
things for you guys?
Can you even walk out
on the street now?
MATTHEW MERCER: We can.
It's a little harder.
It's definitely changed.
It's changed things,
dramatically.
One of the things I used
to enjoy about voice
over was the anonymity, where
I could just vanish and not
have to worry about that.
And I would say, while
things have changed,
it's not bad, because we have
a community of amazing people.
And the times that
we do get recognized,
it's very respectful, and very
like, hey, sorry to bother you,
just wanted to say,
like what you do, maybe,
can I get a picture?
And it's like, sure, if
I'm not like in my pajamas
at a Ralph's at like 3:00 AM
trying to get toilet paper.
TRAVIS WILLINGHAM: Please
tell me that happened.
MATTHEW MERCER: Oh, yeah.
Oh, yeah.
[LAUGHTER]
So it's a new
experience, definitely.
It can be a little
overwhelming at events.
We're still kind of
adjusting to the growth
that this whole thing
has experienced.
It's different, but I can't
say that it's negative.
TRAVIS WILLINGHAM:
We double-take a lot.
The Starbucks that I
go to all the time,
when I was going through
the drive-through,
the guy was like, morning, Grog.
And I was like, what?
You wish you had
ordered maybe something
cooler than like a mocha
Java chip frappuccino.
MARISHA RAY: Sometimes
it pays off though.
Sometimes you'll be
at a bar and you'll
order a couple of drinks,
and the bartender's
like, it's on me, Beauregard.
TRAVIS WILLINGHAM: What?
MATTHEW MERCER: Yeah,
that's happened.
MARISHA RAY: Yes, please.
MATTHEW MERCER: They call it
nerd fight club, because there
are times that, that happens.
We've been at
amusement parks where
all of a sudden, somebody
who works there will be like,
hello, would you like to come
to the front of the line?
And I'm like, yes.
Yes, I--
[INTERPOSING VOICES]
MARISHA RAY: I feel like
I should follow this.
MATTHEW MERCER: This
way, Mr. Durden.
You're like, oh, OK.
TRAVIS WILLINGHAM: His
name is Robert Paulson.
[LAUGHING]
MATTHEW MERCER: So it has come
with a couple of really cool,
unexpected, little benefits.
If anything, just because
we get to meet critters
in the wild and
really kind of see
how far reaching this community
is in places we never expect.
AUDIENCE: Do I just
pass this back to you?
TRAVIS WILLINGHAM: Throw
it at somebody else.
SPEAKER 1: You pick.
TRAVIS WILLINGHAM: Hard.
AUDIENCE: Hi.
MATTHEW MERCER: Hey.
AUDIENCE: So I
know that there are
a lot of rule sites for
"Dungeons and Dragons,"
as well as other tabletop
games, and knowing them
all is a part of
playing the game.
But at the same time,
just kind of making it
accessible and just
enjoyable for everyone.
So I was wondering what
kind of house rules, if any,
you run with?
MATTHEW MERCER: I've run with
a few, especially when we
started.
Because when we first
started playing,
we were Pathfinder, which was
very crunchy and rules heavy.
And then, we went to
streaming and 5th edition
had come out for a while, and
I heard that it was actually
an improvement over
previous editions,
a little more
streamlined, I was like,
let's please move to that.
Let's shift over.
But because it was
also a new system,
there's a lot of things
we were still learning.
And the players.
were carryover from Pathfinder.
So I house-ruled some things for
the benefit of a larger group.
I know healing
potions, technically,
or drinking the
potion is supposed
to take an action
in the system, but I
didn't want there to have-- when
you have eight-- seven to eight
players, to have one person's
whole turn to be drinking
a potion, then wait seven other
rounds and enemies to come
before you get to do something.
So I was like,
bonus action's fine.
That way, you can
still do something cool
and drink potion.
So it's more things
that are minor tweaks
to just make it more fun and
involved for the players.
As we have gone into
the second campaign,
and people have got more
comfortable with the rule set,
I've leaned off the
house rules a little bit.
But honestly, sometimes, if it
just makes for a cool moment,
I'd rather go with that than
the stringency of the rules.
If someone has a
really cool idea
and they want to do
this interesting thing,
and I'm like well,
in order to do that,
technically, they have to
athletics rule for this thing,
and [INAUDIBLE] it's probably
not going to work out.
I'll be like, no,
but it's a cool idea.
Go for it and roll.
And it makes it
more interesting.
The players get
to have fun with.
Because, basically,
at the end of the day,
while it is still a game,
it's more than that-- you
and your friends trying
to have a good time
and tell a story together.
And even I'm trying--
I'm still learning.
I'm still finding that balance.
And sometimes,
I'll look at stuff
on the internet, people
complaining about how, oh, they
messed up these rules.
And it'll be like oh,
man, I got to get better
at enforcing those rules.
And then I do enforce
it, and I'm like, man,
that's not as fun.
So I'm still finding my
balance, at times, as I go too.
AUDIENCE: So "Dungeons and
Dragons" draws very heavily
both mechanically
and flavor-wise
from your traditional Western
"Lord of the Rings" fantasy.
With all of your backgrounds
in anime and whatnot--
your work there--
is there anything
you'd like to see D&D draw
from that pool of stories,
or how do you incorporate
into your storytelling?
MARISHA RAY: That's
a good question.
TRAVIS WILLINGHAM:
Well, I asked Matt
at the beginning of the
campaign as I was struggling
to find a character
voice, I had done
a session that was just kind
of this like southern drawl.
And I was like, Matt, can I
do that in a fantasy world?
He was like, why not?
[LAUGHS] Yeah, why not?
So I think as long as
you don't get into--
well, no, I think almost
anything could pop in there.
I think as long as
it fits the flavor.
And even Percy's
electrical inventions
near the end of the
last campaign where
a nice step into things
you don't see very much
of, and the firearms too.
MATTHEW MERCER:
Even just looking
at the bloodline of D&D,
there are adventures
where 95% of the
adventure is going through
like a subterranean tomb and
unlocking magical artifacts.
But if you happen to
go in this one chamber,
you find this strange
metallic craft
with a deceased creature
with smooth skin
and some sort of a--
looks like a fire-lock
pistol, but it shoots energy.
Oh shit, they just put
aliens in your D&D.
So there is a classic bloodline
of toying with different genres
and stuff.
For me, personally,
because it leans so heavily
into you know Anglo fantasy and
the very "Lord of the Rings"
thing, as we've played
through, our first campaign
was definitely meant
to be an introduction
to D&D for most people at
the table that never played.
So I kept it very
classic fantasy.
And the more we've
played, I've wanted
to pull in other
cultural inspirations.
I would love to, at some
point down the road,
explore more of
[? Marquette ?] in our world,
because I grew up loving
Arabian Nights and a lot
of ancient Sumerian
Mesopotamian religion,
classic Middle Eastern
history, and mythology.
I think it's so grossly
underrepresented
in modern media, and so I'd
love to incorporate elements
of that down the road as well.
I love eastern philosophy and
eastern mythology as well.
It is wonderful and
doesn't get a lot of love.
No matter what you
try and create,
there's going to be some
cultural touchstone that
comes from.
All work is derivative
on some level,
because we're inspired
by what we experience.
And we either are, in
creating something new,
we're creating something that is
a series of other small shards
that you've merged
into a new combination.
So I want to see things that
don't get represented as well.
AUDIENCE: Hi, I have a
question mainly for Matt.
I'm an aspiring DM.
MATTHEW MERCER: Awesome.
AUDIENCE: I run two
different D&D campaigns,
which is way more stressful than
I thought it was going to be.
MATTHEW MERCER: I feel you, man.
AUDIENCE: I have a question.
I am having trouble finding,
or rather, getting to a segment
where I can bridge that
gap, because a lot of people
come to D&D for
different reasons
and are interested in
different aspects of it.
But what I enjoy is that each
one of your characters, you
guys are so committed
to being that character
and sharing that space where you
can let the walls down a bit.
I wonder if there's any tips
or ways to kind of foster
that environment to create that
so that they are comfortable,
because you can't force it.
MATTHEW MERCER: You
can't force it, no.
And it's not something
that happens immediately.
One thing I recommend
is plan, if you can,
extra-curricular activities
outside of D&D for you all
to hang out and just
become better friends--
going out and seeing
a movie together,
or going to a theme park, or
going and doing different other
board games that are more
of a team-building exercise
on the side, where the pressure
isn't just you have to be
in character and we all
have to be friends now--
go.
They can just be themselves.
Then get to know each
other a little better.
And then when they
come back to the table,
they'll be a little more
comfortable with each other
because they've had other
experiences as a troop.
And there is having a
conversation outside
of the game about what do you
all want out of this game.
What do you enjoy out of this?
What do you think you'll
enjoy out of this?
Get a feel for what
everybody wants,
and have them all talk
about it in the open,
because they'll also
better understand
what each player wants to
get out of the story as well.
And they might adjust
what they're looking for.
If they're like I just want to
go and kill monsters and get
experience points and gold,
and one person's like, I want
to explore the depths
of the human condition,
it's hard to marry.
But if both them
say it out loud,
maybe the first person will be
like, yeah, human condition is
cool, too, I guess.
And they'll find
that middle ground.
But it's not your onus to figure
out that puzzle in private.
You can figure it out
together as a group,
have those conversations.
And as long as everyone
knows where they all stand,
that also helps them
feel comfortable,
not wondering what every
other player at the table
is looking for and going after.
They don't know their
character story secrets.
But there can be unexpected
antagonism at the table,
if all the players
have that disconnect
and assume what the other
person wants out of the game.
So having those conversations
openly, I think,
are a really good tool
to getting everyone
on the same page
and getting more
comfortable with each other.
MARISHA RAY: It
takes a while, too.
You will see
progress immediately,
pretty much over the next
several games, but up until--
still to this day, we'll
still check in with each other
and be like, hey, is it cool
if we do this type of thing?
Or can we explore this?
Or if I confront you--
I'm going to come at
you-- like when after--
spoilers-- Mollymauk died and
we had Ashly Burch playing
with us, and I knew
that Beau's reaction was
going to be visceral and angry.
And so I went up to her, and
I was like Beau is probably
going to want to come at you.
Is that OK?
Are you going to be
comfortable and know
that it's coming from a
role-playing standpoint
when I chew your head
off in about 15 minutes?
And she was like,
yeah, absolutely.
I'm here for it.
I'm game for it.
But still it gave just a
little bit of that expectation,
so that she--
TRAVIS WILLINGHAM: It takes
away, like, is this Marisha,
or is it Beau?
MARISHA RAY: Did I mess up?
Am I ruining their game?
I didn't want anyone
to think that.
So I think just having
a little bit of that.
Even when our game
started delving
into romantic territory, we
had to check in with each other
and have pow-wows and
be like, is this OK?
Are we into this?
TRAVIS WILLINGHAM: It was
more like what just happened?
[LAUGHING]
We'd played for two and
half years, no romance
on the stream.
You know, I'm in
love with you, right?
We're like-- what?
MATTHEW MERCER: But
that was a conversation
that Liam had with me, too.
They wanted to talk
about it and be like,
it would be interesting-- my
character could definitely
go down this path,
but I don't want
to do that if it's
going to be strange
and making other
people uncomfortable.
And I was like, as long as
you're respectable about it,
I'm sure I'll be fine.
And it was hilarious.
Your guys' reactions
were hilarious.
TRAVIS WILLINGHAM: Honest.
MATTHEW MERCER: Honest.
[LAUGHING]
Good question.
AUDIENCE: Thank you.
MATTHEW MERCER: No worries.
Over there.
Good catch.
AUDIENCE: Hey, have you
guys ever considered
playing another system other
than the various editions
of D&D. Has there been
any interest in that?
MATTHEW MERCER: Oh, yeah.
D&D is what our main
campaign is, largely
because that's just
where we started,
and that's where
the world has gone.
And it makes sense
within that space.
But we've done a lot of
one-shots and a lot of side
games where we've delved into--
One of what my favorite
systems is "Dead Lands."
TRAVIS WILLINGHAM:
Oh, it's so good.
MATTHEW MERCER: I
prefer OG "Dead Lands,"
but I ran a "Savage Worlds,"
the newer version of it,
for you guys, which was fun--
kind of an old weird west.
She's run a number of
"Honey Heist" games,
which is a ridiculous
one-page RPG.
It's so amazing.
I love a lot of
systems out there.
D&D is just the classic
one that I grew up
with was my gateway to
the rest of the systems.
So I enjoy when we
have the opportunity
to try other things off
of our main campaign.
MARISHA RAY: I think
just currently starting
to dive into a new
system, in a new campaign,
it would be like a commitment.
It would be a discussion,
and one we're just not
ready to have yet.
AUDIENCE: I do want
to jump in on that.
When can we expect
"Crash Pandas" 2?
[LAUGHING]
[INAUDIBLE]
MATTHEW MERCER: Oh no.
Oh, it's so perfect.
MARISHA RAY: Looking
at Regal on that one.
MATTHEW MERCER: Yeah, we
just have to pin Sam down,
the weird fey
creature that he is.
He'd be like run a game.
He'd be like, ha,
you can't find me.
[POOF] Turn the
glitter and disappear.
I'd be like, No!
He's like a treasure
goblin in "Diablo 3."
You're like catch him
before he goes away.
No, he's gone.
No.
Good question.
Any other questions
anybody. curious to-- oh,
we've got a repeat question.
TRAVIS WILLINGHAM: Oh,
here's a long pass.
MARISHA RAY: Go, yeah.
Oh, yeah.
Oh.
MATTHEW MERCER: Mic down.
TRAVIS WILLINGHAM: You
got to lay out for it.
You got to have the
full-body commitment.
Sacrifice yourself.
MATTHEW MERCER: Yeah, chair
would have broke your fall.
AUDIENCE: This thing
still works, right?
So we got to see Taliesin at
Lost Con over the weekend.
MATTHEW MERCER: Oh, nice.
AUDIENCE: And it was awesome.
Absolutely awesome.
I asked him who his favorite
character outside of the party
was, maybe guest characters, or
characters that you've created,
Matt.
And I'm curious of all of the
universe that you've created,
who is your favorite?
MARISHA RAY: Outside of parties?
AUDIENCE: Outside
of the parties.
MATTHEW MERCER: Oh, man.
MARISHA RAY: Interesting.
TRAVIS WILLINGHAM:
Mine's Victor,
just because it was
spontaneous for Matt
and it was just pure
gold in the moment.
I don't think any
other story moment
has caused almost every
member of the table
to reach for their
cell phones and start
filming you on-stream.
[LAUGHING]
It was just so good.
MARISHA RAY: I think
mine would have
to be Raishan, just because she
left such a mark on my soul.
TRAVIS WILLINGHAM: Ugh, yeah,
came out of that one dirty.
MATTHEW MERCER: That
was a fun villain.
Oh, man.
Just from a personal
standpoint, I
think Shawn Gilmore was
an important PC to me,
partially because
he was dynamic.
But there was just a lot of--
when you create a PC that
you invest a lot of time in,
there's a whole bunch of their
story that never gets told.
And so in my head, there's this
whole story for Shawn's life
that you never get
to see on the stream.
And I'm like well,
one day, maybe
I'll find a place to put that.
He just kind of
naturally grew into
this larger-than-life figure
that I still carry with me.
And he's pretty important to me.
Other than that, villain wise,
the whole Delilah and Sylas
Briarwood-- their whole
dynamic of a villain couple
that they're the reasoning
for their villainous tactics
and lifestyle has not to
do with the need for power,
it was purely the drive
from one to save the other.
And they're just still paying
the price for doing that.
And that was a really fun
story to write and play out.
TRAVIS WILLINGHAM:
Who knows, maybe we'll
find some ways to dip into
those stories of Shawn
Gilmore and others.
MATTHEW MERCER: I hope so.
That would be fun.
TRAVIS WILLINGHAM:
Yeah, wouldn't it?
SPEAKER 1: Well, we are
actually just out of time.
So I wanted to thank our three
guests, Travis Willingham,
Matthew Mercer,
Marisha Ray, thank
you so much for joining us.
MARISHA RAY: Thank you, all.
TRAVIS WILLINGHAM: Thanks, guys.
MARISHA RAY: This was great.
MATTHEW MERCER: Thank
you, guys, for coming.
[APPLAUSE]
