>> Sreenivasan: IN MORE THAN A
DOZEN TELEVISION SPECIALS AND
STAGE SHOWS IN HIS NATIVE
ENGLAND, ILLUSIONIST DERREN
BROWN HAS SHOWCASED A WIDE RANGE
OF NEARLY IMPOSSIBLE ABILITIES,
INCLUDING CONVINCING ORDINARY
PEOPLE TO TAKE ALARMING ACTIONS.
IN HIS DEBUT BROADWAY SHOW,
BROWN SEEMINGLY READS THE MINDS
OF THE ENTIRE CROWD.
I RECENTLY ASKED BROWN ABOUT
WHAT MAKES HIS BRAND OF MAGIC--
OR "MENTALISM," AS HE CALLS IT--
APPEALING TO AUDIENCES.
IN THIS STAGE SHOW "MIRACLE"
PERFORMED IN LONDON, BROWN TOOK
ON THE ILLUSION OF FAITH HEALING
AND APPEARS TO "HEAL" AN
AUDIENCE MEMBER WITH BAD
EYESIGHT.
>> OPEN YOUR EYES.
LET'S HAVE A LOOK.
OKAY.
DOES IT LOOK ANY CLEARER TO YOU?
>> "TURN OFF THE SHOWER IF
YOU'VE BEEN OUT FOR A WEEK."
>> THIS IS EFFORTLESS.
THIS IS EFFORTLESS.
YOUR EYESIGHT IS HEALED.
YOU DON'T NEED THESE ANYMORE.
YOU CAN THROW THOSE GLASSES
AWAY.
>> Sreenivasan: YOU GO OUT OF
YOUR WAY TO TELL PEOPLE YOU ARE
NOT A PSYCHIC, YOU'RE NOT A
FAITH HEALER.
WHAT DO YOU DO?
>> I'M TECHNICALLY A MENTALIST.
>> Sreenivasan: YEAH, WHAT'S A
"MENTALIST" MEAN?
>> WELL... EXACTLY.
IT'S... SO, IT'S LIKE A BRANCH
OF SORT OF MAGIC, I GUESS, BUT
IT DEALS WITH THE MIND RATHER
THAN, YOU KNOW, FINDING YOUR
PLAYING CARD OR... OR PULLING A
RABBIT OUT OF A HAT.
WHAT YOU'RE SEEING IS KIND OF
MIND READING AND INFLUENCE AT
WORK IN A... IN AN AUDIENCE
PARTICIPATION-BASED SHOW.
>> Sreenivasan: HOW DO YOU MIND
READ OR INFLUENCE IN SUCH A
LARGE CROWD?
>> I HAVE TO WORK WITH RANDOM
AUDIENCE MEMBERS, OTHERWISE IT
COULD JUST LOOK LIKE, YOU KNOW,
EVERYONE'S A PLANT.
CONNIE, VERY NICE TO MEET YOU.
I'M DARREN.
AND SLEEP.
I'VE GOT YOU.
RIGHT THE WAY DOWN.
RIGHT THE WAY DEEP.
>> Sreenivasan: THE SUSPICION
THAT AUDIENCE MEMBERS ARE IN ON
THE ACT IS HEIGHTENED IN A SHOW
LIKE BROWN'S.
AS THIS PRESS EVENT, BROWN
CLAIMS TO READ A WOMAN'S MIND,
GUESSING CORRECTLY WHICH
AUDIENCE MEMBER SHE WAS
PICTURING IN HER HEAD.
>> DANIEL AND DAVID, SIT DOWN.
ACTUALLY, JUSTIN, YOU CAN SIT
DOWN.
AND THAT SHOULD JUST LEAVE ONE
OF YOU, IF YOU'RE STILL
STANDING.
RIGHT, ONE PERSON LEFT.
YOUR NAME IS?
>> BRENDAN.
>> BRENDAN.
TURN IT AROUND.
WHO WERE YOU THINKING OF?
BRENDAN!
EXCELLENT!
WELL DONE.
I THINK THERE'S A FEELING THAT
CREEPS IN THAT YOU'RE THE ONLY
REAL PERSON IN THE AUDIENCE, AND
EVERYBODY ELSE IS IN ON IT.
I... I HEAR THAT QUITE A LOT.
>> Sreenivasan: THE STAGE SHOW
THAT AT LEAST YOU HAVE HERE IN
NEW YORK RIGHT NOW, IT'S KIND OF
A LONG PROCESS, AND YOU'RE
BUILDING TOWARDS A THESIS
THROUGHOUT THE PROGRAM.
AND THE AUDIENCE IS KIND OF
REVEALED ONE LAYER AFTER ANOTHER
AFTER ANOTHER, AND, AT THE END,
THEY'RE... WELL, HOPEFULLY,
THEY'RE IMPRESSED.
>> WHAT ANY MAGICIAN DOES IS A
GREAT ANALOGY FOR HOW WE
INTERPRET THE WORLD.
YOU KNOW, YOU... YOU'RE A
MAGICIAN OF ANY SORT-- OF WHICH
I AM, AND I'VE GOT ONE FOOT IN
THAT WORLD-- IS MAKING YOU PAY
ATTENTION TO CERTAIN ELEMENTS OF
A STORY AND JOIN UP THE DOTS IN
THE WAY THAT HE WANTS YOU TO OR
SHE WANTS YOU TO.
AND, OF COURSE, THIS IS WHAT WE
DO IN LIFE ALL THE TIME.
WE HAVE THIS INFINITE DATA
SOURCE COMING AT US.
WE EDIT AND DELETE THAT TO MAKE
SENSE OF WHAT'S GOING ON.
WE NEED TO FORM A NARRATIVE, AND
THEN WE MISTAKE THAT NARRATIVE
FOR THE TRUTH.
>> Sreenivasan: WHAT ARE THE
THINGS THAT YOU'RE LOOKING FOR
TO SAY, "THIS IS SOMEBODY THAT I
CAN WORK WITH"?
>> I THROW UP FRISBEES TO CHOOSE
PEOPLE AND WITHIN A SECOND OF
HOW SOMEBODY CATCHES THE FRISBEE
AND JUST SAYS... PUTS THEIR HAND
UP AND SAYS HELLO OR SAYS THEIR
NAME, I KNOW EXACTLY HOW THEY'RE
GOING TO BE ONSTAGE.
IT'S LIKE A LITTLE MICROCOSM OF
HOW THEY ARE ON STAGE.
AND HOW THEY ARE ON STAGE IS A
MICROCOSM OF HOW THEY'RE GOING
TO BE IN LIFE.
AND A THING THAT I... I LEARNED
WHICH I FOUND VERY HELPFUL JUST
FOR MYSELF JUST FROM DOING THESE
SHOWS IS, IF PEOPLE COME UP AND
THEY'RE NERVOUS-- WHICH, OF
COURSE, THEY ARE BECAUSE IT'S A
BAFFLING, WEIRD SITUATION--
IT'S WHAT THEY DO WITH THOSE
NERVES.
IF THEY'RE JUST NERVOUS, AND IF
WE ARE JUST NERVOUS WHEN WE'RE
NERVOUS, THE AUDIENCE LOVE THEM,
RIGHT?
THE AUDIENCE ARE FEELING
VICARIOUSLY, "WELL, THAT COULD
BE ME UP THERE."
>> Sreenivasan: THEY EMPATHIZE.
>> THEY'RE SEEING THEM AS
VULNER... VULNERABLE, AND
VULNERABILITY IS A STRENGTH WHEN
IT'S PERCEIVED BY OTHER PEOPLE.
IT DOESN'T FEEL VERY STRONG AT
THE TIME, BUT, TO EVERYBODY
WATCHING, IT... IT FEELS LIKE
STRENGTH.
>> Sreenivasan: SO, YOU ALMOST
WANT TO ROOT FOR THEM VERSUS
YOU.
>> EXACTLY.
>> Sreenivasan: BROWN HAS
ADAPTED THE PRINCIPLES OF
MENTALISM FOR TV, SHOWING HOW
THE SAME METHODS OF SUGGESTION
AND INFLUENCE USED FOR HIS STAGE
SHOWS CAN WORK IN THE REAL
WORLD.
IN HIS SPECIAL, "THE PUSH,"
BROWN ORCHESTRATES AN ELABORATE
SETUP WITH ACTORS TO CONVINCE AN
UNWITTING PARTICIPANT TO PUSH A
STRANGER OFF A ROOF.
>> JUST GIVE HIM ONE BIG PUSH.
>> Sreenivasan: THAT SEEMS LIKE
AN INSANE PROPOSITION FROM THE
GET GO.
FIRST OF ALL, WHY WOULD YOU EVEN
 WANT TO DO THAT?
>> WHY WOULD YOU WANT TO DO
THAT, RIGHT?
( LAUGHS )
>> Sreenivasan: BUT THEN,
SECONDLY, BY THE TIME YOU GET TO
THE END, IT'S SORT OF A STUNNING
REVEAL.
>> WHAT I TEND TO DO WITH THESE
IS LARGE-SCALE "TRUMAN SHOW"-
STYLE SET-UP SO THERE'S NORMALLY
ONE PERSON GOING THROUGH IT THAT
DOESN'T KNOW THAT THEY'RE PART
OF A TV SHOW.
THERE'S ALL THESE ACTORS, AND...
AND IT'S THIS SORT OF DARK
PSYCHOLOGICAL JOURNEY.
SO, THE POINT WAS, THROUGH
SOCIAL COMPLIANCE, COULD YOU
PUSH SOMEONE TO COMMIT MURDER?
AND OBVIOUSLY, THEY DIDN'T
 REALLY COMMIT MURDER BECAUSE
IT'S STAGED, BUT THEY DIDN'T
REALIZE IT WAS STAGED.
>> Sreenivasan: YOU'RE SORT OF
PULLING THE AUDIENCE ON-CAMERA
ASIDE AND EXPLAINING WHAT'S
HAPPENING, WHICH I THINK IS
SOMETHING VERY STRANGE TO A U.S.
AUDIENCE THINKING ABOUT MAGIC
BECAUSE "WAIT, HE'S TELLING US
HOW HE'S DOING IT. "
>> YEAH, BUT THERE'S NO MAGIC
TRICKS IN IT.
 CHRIS IS ENMESHED IN A WEB OF
 LIES.
 AND THAT'S IMPORTANT.
 I NEED HIM TO FEEL LIKE THERE'S
 ONLY ONE WAY OUT WHEN HE'S TOLD
 TO COMMIT MURDER.
YOU'RE NOW WATCHING A REAL
PERSON GO... GOING THROUGH A
REALLY, YOU KNOW, A DRAMATIC
SITUATION THAT'S UNFOLDING,
WHICH IS SO MUCH MORE COMPELLING
THAN SOMEONE WHO'S TRYING TO
LOOK CLEVER.
SO, YEAH, HE... AND THE POINT OF
IT IS TO SHOW ABOUT SOCIAL
COMPLIANCE.
AND WHAT THE... THE PEOPLE THAT
DID IT-- AND I DON'T WANT TO
GIVE AWAY THE ENDING OF THE
SHOW-- BUT FROM THESE... FROM
THESE THINGS THAT I DO COME AWAY
VERY OFTEN WITH A SENSE OF...
THEY ALL COME OUT FEELING
AMAZING ABOUT IT EVEN IF IT
LOOKS LIKE A VERY DARK AND
RECKLESS JOURNEY.
>> Sreenivasan: ONE OF THE OTHER
ONES, "SACRIFICE..."
>> THERE IS ABSOLUTELY AN
IMMIGRATION PROBLEM IN THE... IN
THE UNITED STATES.
>> YES, I'M TAKING SOMEONE WHO'S
ESSENTIALLY KIND OF RACIST
AND... AND SEEING IF THEY'LL LAY
DOWN THEIR LIFE FOR AN ILLEGAL
IMMIGRANT, AND USING THESE
POWERS OF PERSUASION AND
PROGRAMMING AND CONDITIONING AND
SO ON TO... TO GET IN THERE.
HE WAS CAUGHT UP IN A NARRATIVE
FOR HIS OWN SOCIO... SOCIO-
ECONOMIC PRESSURES THAT HE WAS
UNDER, AND HE HAD A PARTICULAR
NARRATIVE ABOUT MEXICAN PEOPLE
AND WHAT THAT MEANT AND WHAT
THEIR... WHAT THEIR MOTIVES
WERE.
AND... AND THE... THE KEY WAS TO
UNDO THAT AND ACTUALLY...
>> Sreenivasan: TO BREAK THE
STORY.
>> HAVE HIM SEE REAL PEOPLE.
AND THIS ISN'T A KIND OF...
THOSE KIND OF MAKEOVER-Y TYPE
SHOWS WHERE PEOPLE ARE BEING
SPAT OUT ON A CONVEYOR BELT
EVERY WEEK.
THERE... THESE THINGS TAKE MAYBE
EIGHT MONTHS TO MAKE.
I DO ONE OF THEM A YEAR, AND
IT'S A HUGE THING FOR SOMEBODY
TO GO THROUGH.
SO, I'VE ALWAYS REMAINED FRIENDS
WITH THEM.
>> Sreenivasan: ARE YOU
CONCERNED THAT THESE PEOPLE
MIGHT HAVE P.T.S.D. AFTER
SURVIVING SOMETHING LIKE THIS?
>> WELL, I WOULD BE IF WE... IF
WE TREATED THEM IRRESPONSIBLY.
BUT DESPITE HOW RECKLESS THE
SHOWS CAN LOOK, THEY'RE
INCREDIBLY WELL HANDLED AND
VETTED.
AND IN TERMS OF THE SORT OF DUTY
OF CARE AFTERWARDS, ALL OF THAT
IS HUGE.
AND I'VE JUST STAYED IN TOUCH
WITH THEM FOREVER, AND THEY'VE
ALL SAID IT'S THE BEST THING
THEY'VE EVER DONE ASIDE FROM,
YOU KNOW, WEDDINGS AND HAVING
CHILDREN.
>> Sreenivasan: ( LAUGHS )
DERREN BROWN, THANKS SO MUCH FOR
JOINING US.
>> AND ON THAT NOTE, THANK YOU
VERY MUCH, INDEED.
THANKS FOR HAVING ME.
THANK YOU.
>> Sreenivasan: ( LAUGHS )
