JUDY WOODRUFF: Good evening.
I'm Judy Woodruff.
On the "NewsHour" tonight: As the U.S. and
Iran trade accusations over damaged oil tankers
in the Persian Gulf, a look at what Iran's
strategy may be in this tense moment.
Then: It's Friday.
Mark Shields and David Brooks are here to
analyze President Trump's controversial comments
about receiving foreign intelligence on political
opponents and preview the upcoming Democratic
presidential debates.
Plus: a second life for a Southern juke joint
-- how Clarksdale, Mississippi, became a boomtown
by embracing its legacy of blues music.
ROGER STOLLE, Co-Founder, Juke Joint Festival:
It was just really winding down.
You could almost just see it winding down.
So it's kind of like, well, you make it reliable,
I can bring you tourists, blues fans.
But they're not going to spend the night in
Clarksdale if I can't promise them you have
got music tonight.
JUDY WOODRUFF: All that and more on tonight's
"PBS NewsHour."
(BREAK)
JUDY WOODRUFF: Tensions are still running
high in the Persian Gulf region's troubled
waters, a day after two tankers were attacked.
The U.S. military has released video that
purportedly shows Iran's Revolutionary Guard
removing an unexploded mine from one ship.
U.S. officials said it is clear that the Iranians
were trying to remove evidence, but Iran denied
any involvement.
We will explore all of this after the news
summary.
President Trump today walked back, a bit,
from saying he might not tell the FBI if a
foreign government offered -- quote -- "dirt"
on a political opponent.
He had made the original statement in an ABC
News interview.
He was asked about it again today in a FOX
News interview.
DONALD TRUMP, President of the United States:
I don't think anybody would present me with
anything bad, because they know how much I
love this country.
Nobody is going to present me with anything
bad.
Number two, if I was -- and of course you
have to look at it, because if you don't look
at it, you're not going to know if it's bad.
How are you going to know if it's bad?
But of course you would give it to the FBI
or report it to the attorney general or somebody
like that.
JUDY WOODRUFF: Democrats had condemned the
president's initial statement as inviting
foreign interference in U.S. elections.
President Trump also says that he will not
fire adviser Kellyanne Conway, despite a government
watchdog agency's recommendation.
The agency says that her criticism of Democratic
presidential candidates has violated the Hatch
Act.
That law bars government employees from engaging
in political activities.
The president rejected the finding, saying
that Conway has the right to free speech.
On another staffing issue, Mr. Trump said
he plans to name Tom Homan as his new border
czar.
Homan was acting head of Immigration and Customs
Enforcement from January 2017 until retiring
last June.
He has since been contributor to FOX News.
In Hong Kong, building to scrap a bill setting
up extradition with mainland China.
The bill has sparked mass protests, and police
are bracing for more this weekend.
But, today, several former senior Hong Kong
officials sided with the protesters.
ANSON CHAN, Former Chief Secretary of Hong
Kong: What the people are attempting to tell
this government is that we are very worried
about the consequences of passing the extradition
bill, because no one will feel safe, even
in their own beds, after passage of this bill.
It places everybody's individual freedom and
safety at risk.
JUDY WOODRUFF: Some members of Hong Kong's
governing cabinet also called today for delaying
action on the legislation.
South Sudan is warning that a record number
of people face hunger and potentially starvation.
In a new report, the South Sudanese government
and the United Nations say nearly seven million
people are at risk.
That is more than 60 percent of the population.
The report blames delayed rainfall and economic
crisis and the effects of a five-year civil
war.
Women across Switzerland went on strike today
to demand equal treatment.
They walked off jobs and blocked traffic,
carrying signs and chanting slogans calling
for fair pay and an end to sexual harassment.
It was the first such protest in Switzerland
in 28 years.
ALINE FAVRAT, Protester (through translator):
It's a historic day because women, whether
they protest normally or not, need to be heard.
Things need to change.
We are the majority of this country's population,
but we are still not listened to enough, not
present enough in decision-making jobs.
JUDY WOODRUFF: Women in Switzerland make an
average of 12 percent less than their male
counterparts.
For the first time, a woman will lead the
U.S. Navy's War College.
Rear Admiral Shoshana Chatfield was named
today as the school's new president.
She has led a U.S. military command in Guam
since 2017.
Rear Admiral Jeffrey Harley was removed as
the War College's president on Monday, amid
allegations of excessive spending and abuse
of hiring authority.
Hundreds of thousands of people marched and
celebrated in Tel Aviv, Israel, today in one
of the world's largest LGBT pride parades.
Participants waved rainbow flags, walked with
colorful balloons and danced on floats.
Some called for Israel to drop curbs on same-sex
marriage and parental rights.
On Wall Street, stocks failed to make any
headway on this Friday.
The Dow Jones industrial average lost 17 points
to close at 26089.
The Nasdaq fell 40 points, and the S&P 500
slipped four.
And the Toronto Raptors are professional basketball
champions for the first time.
They clinched the NBA title last night, beating
the two-time defending champion Golden State
Warriors in game six of the finals 114-110.
Fans in Toronto, including rap star Drake,
celebrated into the night.
It is the Raptors' first title in their 24-year
history.
Congratulations.
Still to come on the "NewsHour": what will
Iran do next as tension grows in the Persian
Gulf?; an inside look at the training school
districts undergo to prepare for mass shootings;
the three million lives at risk as Syria's
President Bashar al-Assad steps up his bombing
campaign; and much more.
The suspected attacks yesterday on two oil
tankers near the strategically vital Straits
of Hormuz ratcheted already high tensions
between the U.S. and Iran to a new level.
And global reaction has varied in markedly
different ways.
The United Nations secretary-general called
for an independent investigation.
President Trump says the U.S. knows Iran was
responsible.
Nonetheless, today, he expressed interest
in talks with Tehran.
Japan's Prime Minister Shinzo Abe condemned
the attacks, one of which hit a Japanese-operated
tanker while Abe was in Tehran.
And Iran's President Hassan Rouhani accused
the U.S. of radicalizing the situation in
the region and pursuing an aggressive policy
against the Islamic Republic.
At the Pentagon today, Acting Defense Secretary
Shanahan had this to say:
PATRICK SHANAHAN, Acting U.S. Defense Secretary:
We have an international situation there in
the Middle East.
It's not a U.S. situation.
And the focus for myself and Ambassador Bolton
and Secretary Pompeo is to build international
consensus to this international problem.
JUDY WOODRUFF: We take a closer look at what
is at stake and how Iran might respond with
Reuel Marc Gerecht.
He was a CIA operations officer in the Middle
East in the 1980s and '90s.
He is now a senior fellow at the Foundation
for Defense of Democracies.
And Vali Nasr, he is a Middle East scholar
who served in the Obama administration's State
Department.
He is now the dean of the School of Advanced
and International Studies at Johns Hopkins
University, although soon he will step down
from that job in order to advise Democratic
presidential candidates.
And we welcome both of you back to the "NewsHour."
So, my first question to both of you is, do
you accept the Trump administration insistence
that this was Iran that was behind these attacks?
Vali Nasr?
VALI NASR, School of Advanced International
Studies, Johns Hopkins University: I think,
more than likely, yes, although we have the
see the final proof, and the administration
will do well to provide the irrefutable proof.
But I think, more than likely, Iran did it.
It happened in a way that provides them with
plausible deniability.
And now there actually is a very interesting
situation, where the debate is about whether
they did it, rather than about what are the
ramifications and what signal they were trying
to send.
JUDY WOODRUFF: Do you believe the administration
is correct in saying it was Iran?
REUEL MARC GERECHT, Senior Fellow, Foundation
for the Defense of Democracies: Yes, I don't
think there is any plausible candidate besides
Iran.
The Islamic Revolutionary Guard Corps' naval
units have a long history of training and
using mines in the Persian Gulf, so I think
it's pretty conclusive.
JUDY WOODRUFF: So, why are they doing this?
Why did they do it?
REUEL MARC GERECHT: Well, I think there are
a few reasons.
I think, most importantly, they're trying
to spook the Europeans, the Japanese and others.
They're trying to send a signal to put pressure
on the Americans to sort of back off.
I think they also enjoy it.
I mean, I think there's a certain fillip of
revolutionary pride here.
JUDY WOODRUFF: Enjoy it?
REUEL MARC GERECHT: Yes.
I think they have they have been under tremendous
sanctions pressure.
And they wanted a means to strike back.
They can't strike back directly against the
Americans, because they know that would be,
I think, suicidal.
So they go after others.
They go after peripheral targets.
And I think it gives them considerable satisfaction,
as well as, they hope, achieving a strategic
goal of getting everybody worried that chaos
might break out, war might break out, and
the Americans will be put in a tight spot.
JUDY WOODRUFF: And, Vali Nasr, what do you
see as the motive here?
VALI NASR: Well, I think Iran is -- wants
to show that it's defiant, that the maximum
pressure strategy of President Trump has not
worked, and that they are also capable of
resisting the United States and also escalating
costs.
And, in particular, if this president doesn't
want to go to war, Iran acting rashly, threatening
escalation could essentially turn the tables
on the president.
But I also think that Iran cannot go to the
table with the United States looking like
it's surrendering, like it's capitulating.
So given that Prime Minister Abe was in Tehran,
everybody was expecting that he had carried
messages from President Trump and may bring
messages back.
I think the Iranians wanted to send the message
both to domestic audience and international
audience, that, regardless of what Abe brought
to them, they nevertheless are going to be
defiant, that this is not going to be easy
for the United States.
JUDY WOODRUFF: So, Reuel Gerecht, does this
bring Iran closer to what they want?
Do these attacks do that?
REUEL MARC GERECHT: Well, it depends.
I think it depends in part on whether -- how
the United States responds.
I think it's -- eventually, the United States
is going to have to prohibit them from using
mining operations in the Persian Gulf.
I think the U.S. Navy is going to get quite
cranky about this.
If you recall, it was a mining attack -- a
mine attack in 1988 that led President Reagan
to authorize the U.S. Navy to essentially
destroy much of the Iranian navy.
So I think the U.S. Navy is inclined to become
much more aggressive, if the president authorizes
it, to prevent this type of action.
I agree with Vali.
I think there is also a predicate being laid
for possible negotiations, possible diplomacy.
I think the regime is in a very tight spot,
and they will perhaps try to find an out with
the Trump administration.
They may not wait until 2020 to see if the
Democrats win.
JUDY WOODRUFF: Well, where do you see that
going, Vali Nasr?
Because, on the one hand, the administration
has had this maximum pressure -- the Trump
administration -- maximum pressure.
But, on the other hand, you hear them saying,
we would -- the president saying, we would
consider talking to them.
How do you see that coming about, or not?
VALI NASR: Well, I think, at one level, the
purpose of maximum pressure is not clear.
So there are elements in the administration
who would want either regime change or for
Iran to completely capitulate.
And then the president in Tokyo said Iran
can prosper under the existing regime, and
what I really want is to talk to Iran.
So I think the United States would do well
if it had a clear strategy, and it would signal
it properly.
But I agree with Reuel that Iran is in a tight
spot.
They don't have an option of going to war
with the United States.
That would be the end of the Islamic Republic.
They cannot suffer under these sanctions as
is.
And they ultimately may have to come to the
table, but it's going a very delicate dance
of how they get themselves to the table.
And we saw some of this with Kim Jong-un on
and North Korea, that beating their chests,
being threatening essentially might be a sort
of way to come to the table.
And we shouldn't forget that the prime minister
of Japan didn't go to Iran without at least
having some indication that the Iranians would
like to hear proposals from the United States.
And it's quite possible that he's carrying
back at least certain conditionalities and
proposals from Iran.
So the public messaging between the two sides
may -- as Reuel says, may be providing a sort
of an umbrella or a cover for some kind of
an engagement that might be forthcoming.
JUDY WOODRUFF: So, it's counterintuitive,
but are we saying that the maximum pressure
campaign, which may have caused Iran or pushed
them into a corner, that made them want to
do this, Reuel Gerecht, then may in turn lead
to talks?
Is that what we're -- is that...
(CROSSTALK)
REUEL MARC GERECHT: Well, it's entirely possible.
I mean, again, I think it depends what the
Iranians do.
They're creatures of habit.
So since we haven't responded yet to their
provocations -- and I think, in retrospect,
it was probably a mistake that we didn't respond
to the attacks off the coast of Fujairah,
where there were four ships damaged.
If we'd been more bold then and said...
JUDY WOODRUFF: This is what happened a few
weeks ago.
REUEL MARC GERECHT: Right.
If we'd been more bold and said, you do that
again, we're going to unleash helicopter gunships
on the Revolutionary Guard Corps navy, this
might not have happened.
So it depends whether they return to these
tactics.
I suspect they might, in which case the -- I
think the U.S. Navy will have to become more
forceful.
That could derail or delay the process for
the regime, if it really is trying to find
an avenue to have negotiations with President
Trump.
JUDY WOODRUFF: But, very quickly, right now,
we're still waiting to see a clear response
from the Trump administration.
Is that right?
VALI NASR: Absolutely.
And, also, we don't know exactly what Prime
Minister Abe brought back and what he has
relayed to the president.
And I think Reuel is correct.
I think both sides need to show a -- show
decisiveness, as they are perhaps trying to
go to talks and gain leverage.
But this is exactly why it's dangerous.
It can get out of hand, and then one signal
or one escalation may essentially lead to
somewhere where neither country, I think,
would want to go.
JUDY WOODRUFF: And, in the meantime, you had
the acting defense secretary, Shanahan, saying
-- talking today about an international reaction.
So, we will wait to see whether that comes
together in some way.
Reuel Marc Gerecht, Vali Nasr, we thank you.
REUEL MARC GERECHT: Thank you very much.
JUDY WOODRUFF: With an increasing number of
school shootings across the country, school
boards and administrators are struggling with
how to prepare for the worst-case scenarios.
As John Ferrugia from Rocky Mountain PBS in
Denver reports, Colorado has become a center
for developing school safety protocols that
have been adopted in many districts throughout
the U.S.
JOHN FERRUGIA: Walking the halls of Platte
Canyon High School in Bailey, Colorado is
always bittersweet for John-Michael Keyes.
It is here he lost his daughter.
In 2006, a lone gunman, a stranger, got into
the school and took students hostage in a
classroom.
All got out but one, Emily Keyes.
And she sent this last text message to her
parents.
JOHN-MICHAEL KEYES, I Love U Guys Foundation:
You know, Emily gave us a voice, and she also
told us what to say.
"I love you guys."
JOHN FERRUGIA: It is from here that an idea
emerged, a plan to save the lives of others.
JOHN-MICHAEL KEYES: I realized that there
wasn't a common language and common expectations
of what to do in a crisis around the country
with our schools.
And we found a handful of districts in the
country that were using some very specific
language in their crisis response, and we
packaged it and relabeled it and called it
the Standard Response Protocol.
JOHN FERRUGIA: The I Love U Guys Foundation,
started by John Michael and Ellen Keyes, trains
hundreds of teachers, administrators, organizations
and agencies every year to expand the reach
and scope of the program.
JOHN MICHAEL KEYES: We took lock out, lock
down, evacuate, and we added shelter.
And those are the four actions of the Standard
Response Protocol.
JOHN MCDONALD, Executive Director of Safety
and Security, Jefferson County Schools: We
found the Standard Response Protocol in 2009.
It changed our lives.
And...
JOHN FERRUGIA: That was John Michael Keyes.
JOHN MCDONALD: That was John Michael Keyes,
the I Love U Guys Foundation.
JOHN FERRUGIA: John McDonald heads security
at the Jefferson County School District.
This is the district of Columbine High School,
where, in 1999, two students killed 12 fellow
students and a teacher before killing themselves.
McDonald and his team, working closely with
local law enforcement, are focused on keeping
kids safe in schools.
He oversees the Frank DeAngelis Center, which
was once an elementary school.
It is named for the former Columbine High
School principal, Frank DeAngelis, who now
speaks across the country about the lessons
learned from Columbine.
At this training center, school districts
and law enforcement agencies from across the
country can train for the worst.
JOHN MCDONALD: In the past year, we have had
over 60 agencies, more than 6,000 police officers,
sheriff's deputies, state and federal agents
training in here, preparing for that given
day.
JOHN FERRUGIA: The goal is making sure a responding
officer, even if working alone, understands
the tactics that can help stop a shooter who
gets into a school.
This is a state-of-the-art, computer-controlled,
virtual reality shooter training.
Officers can be run through hundreds of scenarios
involving a gunman in one room or in several
rooms.
JOHN MCDONALD: It really provides our professionals
the ability to go into an environment and
train just like they would have to respond,
using multiple rooms, noise.
JOHN FERRUGIA: But this is just one part of
the school safety equation.
Another component is how schools immediately
respond before law enforcement arrives.
That brought John Michael Keyes, with program
in hand, to Jefferson County.
JOHN MCDONALD: He came to me, sat down in
our office here.
And I said, how much?
He said, I'm not going to charge you anything.
I just want you to try it.
I call him back the next day.
I said, I don't believe in testing it.
We're going to implement it.
We started training on the Standard Response
Protocol in all of our schools, and it was
battle-tested that year.
In February of 2010, three weeks before our
Deer Creek Middle School shooting, we first
went into that school and trained and talked
to the teachers and the administrators about
what they would see, what it would feel like,
what they needed to think about.
JOHN FERRUGIA: On that day, a mentally ill
man shot and wounded two students outside
Deer Creek Middle School, before being tackled
by a teacher and subdued.
JOHN MCDONALD: I support this program.
I have for many years.
JOHN FERRUGIA: And that is why John McDonald
is often right alongside Keyes, helping to
train the Standard Response Protocol.
JOHN MCDONALD: I believe it to be the fundamental
program that we base all school safety on
here in this district and so many districts
across the state of Colorado, and now across
the country and Canada.
JOHN FERRUGIA: The I Love U Guys Foundation
has mapped where school districts are now
using the Standard Response Protocol, and
the list continues to grow.
But despite their efforts, John McDonald says
there are still huge gaps in school safety
training across the country.
JOHN MCDONALD: There are no national standards.
There's no state standards.
There's not local standards other than what
we decide and determine.
And that's a struggle.
Frankly, that worries me a lot.
JOHN FERRUGIA: For Jefferson County and many
other school districts, student and staff
training and law enforcement response are
just two components of a comprehensive safety
plan.
Columbine also changed school access and school
surveillance.
JOHN MCDONALD: And you have to be on video
or intercom to get into a school today.
JOHN FERRUGIA: McDonald is committed to making
sure they never let a gunman near or in a
school.
JOHN MCDONALD: Video camera, robust surveillance
systems that track people's movement, panic
alarms inside schools that automatically connect
with our emergency dispatch center here, and
we are on the same radio system that all of
our first-responders are.
JOHN FERRUGIA: And while he wouldn't reveal
the capabilities of the high-tech, high-definition
surveillance system, he did demonstrate the
lower-resolution optics.
JOHN MCDONALD: If there's a critical incident
in a school and we're locked down, our dispatchers
can open the door the moment they see law
enforcement pull up on scene.
JOHN FERRUGIA: Remotely, from here?
JOHN MCDONALD: Remotely.
And that's a big deal.
JOHN FERRUGIA: And he says these are safety
measures for all district schools.
But for Columbine High School, there are even
more unique security elements that can't be
discussed.
JOHN MCDONALD: For so many, it is a place
of hope and inspiration.
A lot of victims come here.
But so too do a lot of people who are inspired
by the killers.
And that's been the biggest challenge for
us.
JOHN FERRUGIA: How many people have tried
to get into the school?
JOHN MCDONALD: We're averaging about 198 a
month.
JOHN FERRUGIA: A month?
JOHN MCDONALD: A month?
JOHN FERRUGIA: One hundred and ninety-eight
people a month are trying to get into the
school?
JOHN MCDONALD: Yes.
JOHN FERRUGIA: And what do you do when you
have people there, obviously, all the time?
JOHN MCDONALD: Oh, we stop them.
We engage outside the building, not inside.
I'm not giving them the opportunity to get
in.
JOHN FERRUGIA: And McDonald says, unlike in
1999, when there were unheeded warnings about
the killers being violent in their writings
and conversations, today, if there are threats,
whether spoken, written or on social media,
his team will react quickly.
JOHN MCDONALD: Look, if you say you're going
to kill us, you say you're going to blow us
up, I believe you.
And we're going to send law enforcement to
your house, and we're going to try to get
consent to search your room from your parents.
And we're going and bring your parents in
on this and make them a partner with us, because
we're not going to allow this to happen.
We're going to make sure that, in our environment,
you and everyone else around you is safe and
secure.
JOHN FERRUGIA: That is the message from a
school district that has experienced mass
murder.
And it is a message officials here hope other
districts across the country will take to
heart to prevent yet another school shooting.
For the "PBS NewsHour," I'm John Ferrugia
in Denver.
JUDY WOODRUFF: Stay with us.
Coming up on the "NewsHour": Mark Shields
and David Brooks break down President Trump's
controversial comments about receiving foreign
help in campaigns; plus, how embracing the
legacy of blues music is reviving a struggling
Southern city.
But first: In Syria, there is a tale of two
territories.
The final stronghold of those opposed to the
Assad regime is the target of relentless attacks
and the source of constant tension between
Syria and neighboring Turkey.
And then there is the area liberated by the
U.S. and its allies.
As Nick Schifrin reports, each area faces
unique and immense challenges.
NICK SCHIFRIN: With the war in Syria now grinding
into the ninth year, Bashar al-Assad has all
but won the war and kept power with the help
of Iran and Russia and much of the country.
But the killing and suffering continues, especially
in Northwest Syria in Idlib province.
Millions of civilians and tens of thousands
of militants are under constant bombardment.
Meanwhile, in Northeast Syria, the Syrian
Kurds, with U.S. and European backing, destroyed
ISIS' stronghold nearly three months ago.
The Kurds control a vast area, but many of
its major cities are destroyed, and they live
with the threat of a promised U.S. withdrawal.
To update us on both regions, we welcome two
people with deep experience covering the war.
Hassan Hassan was born and grew up in Eastern
Syria.
He is now a director at the Center For Global
Policy, a foreign policy think tank.
And journalist and author Gayle Tzemach Lemmon,
she's an adjunct senior fellow at the Council
on Foreign Relations and just returned from
her sixth trip to Northeast Syria, and is
working on a new book about the Kurds.
Welcome to you both.
Thank you very much.
NICK SCHIFRIN: Hassan Hassan, let's start
with you in Idlib.
We have covered this story before.
How bad is the onslaught by the Syrian regime
and the Russian air force against this last
location where rebels are living?
HASSAN HASSAN, Center For Global Policy: This
is as bad as it gets.
We were anticipating that the regime and the
Russians will attack Idlib.
We have been anticipating this for about a
year now.
So the offensive has been relentless.
The Russians have been bombarding the areas
nonstop for about six weeks now, but with
very little military progress on the ground.
NICK SCHIFRIN: So what is their hope?
Are they trying to bomb these people into
submission?
These people don't have very many places to
go, other than across the border in Turkey.
Or is it more of a limited goal?
HASSAN HASSAN: The campaign has been very
limited.
There are signs that the Russians have wanted
it to be geographically limited.
Iran has not been involved in the fight on
the ground.
And this is one of the major reasons why Russia
has not managed to make any progress, meaningful
progress, against the Syrian rebels in Idlib
and in Northern Hama.
These are the two areas where the offensive
has focused.
It was probably they managed to take 1 percent,
and they lost around 1 percent as well.
NICK SCHIFRIN: These horrific scenes that
we're seeing in Idlib are not the same as
we see in Northern Syria and Northeast Syria.
Raqqa was ISIS' stronghold, a place where
there were executions in the middle of the
square.
The SDF, the Syrian Democratic Forces, mostly
Kurds, with U.S. help, have taken over that
city.
Is it a real city today?
Does it have real problems?
GAYLE TZEMACH LEMMON, Council on Foreign Relations:
It is.
It's a real city with real problems led by
a nonstate actor with real state issues, right?
And so what you see now is a real fragile
stability.
One shopkeeper we visited, I was really worried
her business was going to be closed, after
it was very slow and December.
And we walked in this time, and not only does
she have a great business that's going and
a sewing machine that's up, but she had a
14-year-old girl from her family who's helping
her and clerking also.
And so you see this real fragile stability
taking hold amid enormous challenge, and a
real threat of ISIS reemergence.
So what they're looking for is any opening
that they possibly can use.
And it's interesting.
One mother we met said, what we really love
is that women are in all kinds of new roles
all around Raqqa.
What we're really worried about is the city
falling back into chaos.
And that's what you hear a lot.
NICK SCHIFRIN: One of the big challenges also
in that part of the country is what to do
with the people who were either held by ISIS
or were members of ISIS, especially the so-called
ISIS wives.
These are women who traveled with their husbands
to join ISIS.
How do they feel about ISIS today?
And how are they raising their children?
GAYLE TZEMACH LEMMON: So it depends on who
you talk to.
The women that we spoke with -- and I think
that you should call them both ISIS wives
and followers, right, because they were very
much adherents to what was happening.
And so you talk to them, and you hear this
mix of real disappointment and disillusionment
with Baghdadi, who is the head of the Islamic
State, because they are deeply bitter about
the fact that children of these women who
were part of ISIS died of starvation in Baghouz,
in the last ISIS holdout, while leadership
had access, as one mother told me, to potato
chips and juice and Pepsi, while our children
died in our arms.
And you really do hear that.
Now, at the same time, you have this united
nations of ISIS that is in this whole camp
with people from Seychelles and Germany and
Amsterdam and all kinds of countries, right?
And you walk in and you hear a real rainbow
of languages being spoken as people talk about
it.
And you see how far-reaching this project
was.
And you wonder.
There is this camp in Hol was -- had 9,000
people in a school running before Baghouz.
It was prepared for 30,000 to 40,000.
It now has 73,000 people, at least 60 percent
of them children.
And they're trying to figure out what to do
with this, including all of the foreigners,
who absolutely no one wants to take back.
NICK SCHIFRIN: Because the Kurds don't have
the capacity really to do much with them.
GAYLE TZEMACH LEMMON: But just think.
Until a few months ago, right, i mean, they
were fighting the people.
And now we have asked them to please not only
house them, feed them, shelter them, make
sure that viruses don't spread, that the health
care is taken care of, but also, help us hold
people that their own home countries don't
want.
NICK SCHIFRIN: Let's quickly look toward the
future.
Hassan Hassan, what do you see in Idlib?
Do you think this onslaught will continue?
And are we going to see it spread past Idlib?
HASSAN HASSAN: Well, I think both Russia and
the regime will eventually want to take all
of Idlib, because this is the last stronghold
held by the Syrian rebel forces.
In my opinion, the preference by the Syrian
regime is to demolish the hauler.
The reason why that is, is because they know
that, even after they expel the Syrian rebel
forces from these areas, that will be -- that
will turn into an endless underground campaign,
insurgency by these forces.
So they don't want to take chances, essentially,
of having some remnants of the rebels in that
very critical area.
NICK SCHIFRIN: Gayle Tzemach Lemmon, what
do you see, quickly, in the north, North and
Northeastern Syria, these threats to stability?
Do the Kurds have the capacity to prevent
instability?
And is the U.S. focused enough on it?
GAYLE TZEMACH LEMMON: So, the U.S. is the
Oz-like presence that you don't see, but everybody
knows.
And, so far, they have been able to keep out
the regime, Iran -- Turkey.
And they have been able to keep ISIS more
or less at bay with a partner force that is
doing its job every single day.
So the challenge is, what comes next?
And that has always been the question.
You hear -- talk to SDF leadership, to folks
who are part of this partner force, and they
are focused on trying to work with the Americans
to get to a deal with Turkey.
And they're very quick to talk to you about
it.
Whether that deal can be achieved is a whole
other question.
NICK SCHIFRIN: Gayle Tzemach Lemmon with Council
on Foreign Relations, Hassan Hassan, Center
For Global Policy, thanks to you both.
GAYLE TZEMACH LEMMON: Thank you.
HASSAN HASSAN: Thank you.
JUDY WOODRUFF: Back in the U.S., the stages
are set for the first Democratic primary debates,
and President Trump weighs in on accepting
information from foreign governments about
political opponents, which brings us to the
analysis of Shields and Brooks.
That is syndicated columnist Mark Shields
and New York Times columnist David Brooks.
Hello to both of you.
So let's start with the story that has pretty
much dominated the week, David, and that is
President Trump saying in that interview with
ABC that if he were offered information from
a foreign government about a political opponent,
he wouldn't have any trouble taking it, and
he -- why would he report it to the FBI?
Now, he's walked it back a little.
DAVID BROOKS: Yes.
JUDY WOODRUFF: But how serious is this?
DAVID BROOKS: Well, it's a great moment in
moral philosophy when you're asked if you're
going to cheat, and you say, of course, everyone
cheats.
(LAUGHTER)
DAVID BROOKS: I salute him for not pretending
to be better than he really is.
He's pretty candid about it.
But I do think that's a bit of his mind-set,
that the rules -- everybody breaks the rules.
And maybe he conducted his business life that
way, and he certainly wants to do that.
It's just his natural reaction is, of course.
Everybody breaks the rules.
What's disturbing to me is not so much him.
We sort of know him already -- is how many
Republicans are now walking themselves up
to the position, well, we're in a death match,
and so we need a leader like that.
And I think, in order to justify their support
for President Trump, they have talked themselves
-- or many people have -- into the position
that this is a life-or-death struggle, the
left is out to destroy us, and so breaking
the rules is what you got to do.
And so that, to me, is almost a scarier prospect
than the heart and soul of Donald Trump.
JUDY WOODRUFF: So, some of them, some Republicans
have said that he made a mistake.
DAVID BROOKS: Yes.
JUDY WOODRUFF: But you're right.
DAVID BROOKS: Mitt Romney and others.
But some of the others, the people who are
supporting him, it's the ends justify the
means argument.
JUDY WOODRUFF: Mark?
MARK SHIELDS: Yes, I agree with David.
It just -- it strikes me that the president
remains unchanged in a changing world.
Being president has not changed him in the
least.
Even Warren Harding, not a particularly thoughtful
or self-reflective man, said, the White House
is an alchemist.
It finds what your strengths are, in his case,
finds what your weaknesses are.
Donald Trump said in an interview with George
Stephanopoulos: I have heard a lot of things
in my life.
I have never gone to the FBI.
I mean, he was talking as a New York real
estate guy.
He's never made the transition to, I'm thinking,
is it good for the United States of America,
is it good for the working families, is it
good for world peace or whatever, that a president
is supposed to think through that prism.
It comes right down to, is it good for me?
And, to David's point, hey, hey, get a little
advantage over my opponent, yes, you better
believe I will do it.
What am I, a sissy, a snitch that's going
to go to the FBI?
And it's a -- it really is sort of a sad moral
judgment.
The other thing I would just point out is
ABC -- it was ABC's story.
And ABC today broke the -- they revealed the
Trump state polls at this point.
And I don't know if you saw that, but he is
now trailing Joe Biden by 16 points in Pennsylvania,
by 10 points in Wisconsin, by seven points
in Florida.
So, I mean, we're looking at the cusp right
now, given those kind of numbers, of a campaign
that literally would do anything.
JUDY WOODRUFF: Which the president, when he
was asked about those polls the other day,
said that that's not correct.
MARK SHIELDS: That's right.
JUDY WOODRUFF: That his polls show that he's
ahead in every state.
MARK SHIELDS: And these are his polls that
they revealed today.
(LAUGHTER)
JUDY WOODRUFF: But, David, to your point about
Republicans being on board, I mean, the fact
is, you have mainly Republicans holding up
efforts in the Congress right now to tighten
election security.
So, this is -- this is having some consequences
here.
DAVID BROOKS: Yes.
And this is Mitch McConnell.
And, frankly, I don't -- the federal government
has already authorized $380 million for the
states.
One of the bills would give them another billion.
And so I don't really know what -- the right
spending level for this.
But you would think, given what we have been
through and the seriousness of what we have
been through, that you would want to err on
the side of preventing the corruption of our
electoral system, which has happened, which
we know is going to happen again, from multiple
sources, maybe, the Russians doing something
different than they did last time.
And so you think you would -- if we're going
to spend whatever hundreds and hundreds of
billions on defense, on our military defense,
a billion on -- to defend our electoral system
doesn't seem to me an outrageous expense.
And so it seems like something they should
be doing.
And you get the impression Mitch McConnell
doesn't want to do anything that will annoy
Donald Trump.
MARK SHIELDS: Yes, Mitch McConnell has been
constant on this.
He's no Johnny-come-lately.
He was the one voice, you will recall, in
the leadership in 2016, when the leadership
of the Congress unanimously agreed with the
Obama administration to go public on the revelation
that Russia was already deeply involved in
the systematic undermining of our electoral
process, he resisted it, and, as a consequence,
stopped it.
He is now stopping the reforms.
I mean, even Roy Blunt, the chairman of the
Rules Committee, has been quite candid about
this.
I mean, the fact is that, in a secular democracy,
the closest thing to a public sacrament is
a national election.
And when you're starting to tamper with that
and trifle with that -- I mean, we went through
it in 2016.
JUDY WOODRUFF: In '16.
MARK SHIELDS: We saw what happened when there
was strife and disunity nurtured on the Democratic
side between Sanders and Clinton campaigns
by those e-mails.
A party chair was forced out.
And Donald Trump himself 140 times mentioned
WikiLeaks approvingly during the campaign.
JUDY WOODRUFF: Right.
MARK SHIELDS: I mean, so, there was a play.
And the Mueller report -- committee -- investigation
confirmed it.
JUDY WOODRUFF: But, at this point, not -- nothing
is really moving that would change -- that
would protect...
MARK SHIELDS: No, thanks to Mitch.
JUDY WOODRUFF: ... that would protect what
we have -- gone on.
Mark, you mentioned the polls.
The Democrats, it probably brought a little
spring to their step.
But we know these polls are temporary.
Today, David, the Democratic National Committee
announced that they have got their first debates
coming up next week.
And they're divided into two nights because
there are so many candidates.
The Democrats -- the party said, OK, the most
we're going to allow on the stage on any one
night is 10.
So they have got 10 one night and 10 the next.
Today, they drew names.
And we can show you the lineup now.
On the first night, June the 26, there are
going to be these 10.
And I'm not going to name every single one
of them.
MARK SHIELDS: Yes.
JUDY WOODRUFF: But I can tell you that this
is -- Elizabeth Warren is included here, Beto
O'Rourke, and then the others, Cory Booker
and Amy Klobuchar and a number of others.
The second night, you have, frankly, several
of the front-runners, Joe Biden, Bernie Sanders,
Pete Buttigieg, Kamala Harris, and others.
Does this -- is this a lineup, David, that
tells you something about what we can look
for, or what?
I mean, the party was clearly trying not to
have an adult night and a kids night.
DAVID BROOKS: Yes.
Right.
No.
And it's 10.
It's a minion.
So it's an honor.
It's a tradition that you get the minion of
Democrats.
(LAUGHTER)
DAVID BROOKS: Yes, I think the short answer
-- I don't know -- the first thing is, it's
bad for Elizabeth Warren, because the better
night is the second night.
You have got Biden, Buttigieg.
You have got Sanders.
You have got three of the top tier, and then
some of the wild cards who we -- as well as
Kamala Harris.
So, if people are going to watch one night,
I suspect they're going to watch night two.
But, of course, we will all be watching both
nights.
JUDY WOODRUFF: Both nights, yes.
DAVID BROOKS: And, so, that.
The second thing is, in hearing from the campaigns,
is, you usually go into a debate with some
strategy, like who you're going to say what
to.
But with so many, there's no strategy.
It's just -- there's no -- you can't pick
a strategy, because you don't know where -- what's
going to happen.
There will be 10 of the people on the stage.
JUDY WOODRUFF: Two hours each night.
DAVID BROOKS: And then it'll be another 10
the next night, or some other time.
And so it'll be a little more parallel play,
I think, with the candidates not trying to
react so much to each other, but just trying
to shine their own solipsistic self.
JUDY WOODRUFF: All right, match solipsistic...
(CROSSTALK)
MARK SHIELDS: Their own -- oh, wow.
Boy, that's a PBS word.
(LAUGHTER)
JUDY WOODRUFF: Yes.
But, Mark, I mean, does this lineup foretell
something special about this?
MARK SHIELDS: It does.
JUDY WOODRUFF: Or it's just there are so many....
MARK SHIELDS: It does, Judy.
And I will tell you what it says.
If you're going in it, you're 2, 3 percent,
this is your night.
I mean, you have got to say something that's
memorable.
That's what it is.
Now, that is maybe good news for a candidate,
maybe bad news for the party.
Going to make the boldest assertion.
I'm going to take a position that's far to
the left and challenge everybody else to do
it.
But I have to do something that's memorable.
I want to bell the cat.
I want to go after Joe Biden or one of the
front-runners or Elizabeth Warren in the first
night.
I would say Elizabeth Warren's probably got
the best position, because she has the first
night.
And out of curiosity, a lot of people will
tune in.
But, no, I think that's the risk.
And, plus, it's the reward, I mean, that you
do something that's memorable.
I remember, 1988, the Democrats, the seven
dwarfs, or nine dwarfs, or whatever they were
then, when Bruce Babbitt, who was a dark horse,
the governor of Arizona, stood up and said,
we're going to have to raise taxes.
We know that after Ronald Reagan.
And I know we're going to.
And I will do it as president.
And I will stand up.
And I challenge the rest of you to.
And they all -- all the others sat down.
And, of course, he was right.
JUDY WOODRUFF: He was the only one.
MARK SHIELDS: He was the only one who did
it.
DAVID BROOKS: Did he get the nomination?
I'm trying to remember.
(LAUGHTER)
MARK SHIELDS: No, he didn't get the nomination.
But you have to do something to roll the dice
to get the...
(CROSSTALK)
MARK SHIELDS: Yes.
JUDY WOODRUFF: Go ahead.
DAVID BROOKS: The good news for the Democrats
-- I left out a syllable from solipsistic,
by the way.
MARK SHIELDS: Yes.
(CROSSTALK)
(LAUGHTER)
JUDY WOODRUFF: Mark and I noticed that.
MARK SHIELDS: We didn't want to say anything.
(LAUGHTER)
DAVID BROOKS: The good news for the Democrats
is, all these people qualified, because they
all -- you had to get, what it was, 65,000.
(CROSSTALK)
MARK SHIELDS: That's right.
JUDY WOODRUFF: And be at least at X-percent
in the polls.
DAVID BROOKS: And so you have all these people,
some of them not so well-known.
They all did it.
JUDY WOODRUFF: Right.
DAVID BROOKS: And that's a sign that Democratic
interest is super high, and then we could
be seeing exponentially record turnout, either
through primaries or maybe through the whole
year.
JUDY WOODRUFF: I'm expecting we're going to
have a huge viewership of both -- on both
nights.
MARK SHIELDS: Are you really?
OK.
JUDY WOODRUFF: But, Mark, you mentioned the
candidates having a chance to stand out.
There are a few of them who are now beginning
to take shots or mini-shots, I guess we can
say, at the front-runner, Joe Biden.
Last night, I interviewed Beto O'Rourke here,
and he took what I think you can say is a
gentle swipe at the former vice president.
Let's listen.
BETO O'ROURKE (D), Presidential Candidate:
I think some of the appeal of the vice president's
candidacy is a return to an earlier era.
And while we are grateful for that era, and
certainly for the service of President Obama,
I think we need to be focused on the future,
because, even before Donald Trump, we had
challenges in this country.
JUDY WOODRUFF: Even before Donald Trump, we
had challenges.
MARK SHIELDS: Yes, that's true.
I don't think anyone's going to argue with
that.
(LAUGHTER)
MARK SHIELDS: Nostalgia isn't what it used
to be.
That's the Beto O'Rourke bumper sticker.
I mean, I can understand that.
I think, more than anything else, it was a
subtle, non-venomous way of raising the age
issue, that Joe, Joe Biden, is yesterday.
I'm tomorrow.
Tomorrow basically wins in American politics.
I think today might be an exception, when
yesterday looks pretty darn good to most Americans.
JUDY WOODRUFF: Is that effective for him to
be doing that?
DAVID BROOKS: Yes.
JUDY WOODRUFF: And he's not the only one.
DAVID BROOKS: Well, I think, substantively,
there is an argument whether the Democrats
want to continue on the Obama-Biden trajectory
or they want a totally different trajectory.
And Sanders, Warren and maybe Beto are sort
of on a different trajectory.
I personally don't think it's effective to
do it right now.
MARK SHIELDS: Yes.
DAVID BROOKS: I think that the Democrats,
even with all these good poll numbers, are
terrified of blowing this.
And they do not want to sully each other too
much.
I think there's going to be low market, especially
early in the campaign, to sully the other
candidates.
Second, people like Joe Biden.
And so there's some expectation from some
of the other campaigns that he's just going
to fade on his own, or they hope he will.
But, anyway, to go out so early and to be
negative, even if it was pretty gentle...
MARK SHIELDS: It was a pretty gentle....
(CROSSTALK)
DAVID BROOKS: It was pretty gentle.
But I would make just the larger point that
I think going after each other as heavily
and as hard as Sanders and Clinton did, or
as Obama and Clinton did, I think that's probably
the wrong formula this year.
JUDY WOODRUFF: And that's my question, Mark.
I mean, is that the kind of thing that we're
going to look at, look for in these debates
next week?
How hard are they going to go?
Are they going to be prepared...
MARK SHIELDS: We will say we're looking for
substance and new ideas, but we will look
for elbows and knees in the groin, and all
sorts of rabbit punches and that, and whether,
in fact, they're rewarded for it.
I mean, I think -- I mean, I think the urgency,
the sense of urgency that you have got to
break through in one of those appearances
is just -- is so strong and so compelling,
overwhelming.
JUDY WOODRUFF: And, this week, we saw -- David,
we saw Bernie Sanders talk about Democratic
socialism.
He's clearly feeling some heat from -- maybe
not so much from Democrats, although they
have expressed their differences, but also
from Republicans.
Is that something he needs to do right now?
DAVID BROOKS: Yes.
I have certainly heard it from Democrats that,
we're not all socialists.
We don't want to be the socialist party.
I don't think he helped himself at all.
I mean, he didn't describe what kind of socialist
he is.
Is he just a socialist who wants to do the
New Deal?
I wouldn't call that socialism.
The key issue is, what do you think of capitalism?
And how much would you interfere in the market?
Elizabeth Warren makes very clear she's got
some pretty progressive policies, but she
wants to reform capitalism, not do away with
it.
And Sanders is never able to define the left
where he won't go, whether it's Venezuela,
or whether it's the Nicaraguan regime, the
Sandinistas.
He will never say, those people are not me.
And so, without drawing that boundary, Trump
can say, look, he's as socialist as you want
to be.
So I don't think he did a very good job of
defining what he means by socialism.
JUDY WOODRUFF: Well, he will have a chance
to do that next Thursday night on the debate
stage.
Mark Shields, David Brooks, we will be talking
about that next Friday.
Thank you.
MARK SHIELDS: Thank you, Judy.
JUDY WOODRUFF: And now: a music festival attempting
to keep the blues alive in the Mississippi
Delta and revive a struggling town.
Jeffrey Brown reports.
It's part two of our -- or part, I should
say, of our arts and culture series, Canvas,
and our look at American creators.
JEFFREY BROWN: A rainy Saturday night in Clarksdale,
in the heart of the rural Mississippi Delta.
At the new seed and supply company, Anthony
"Big A" Sherrod is holding court.
It was just one act in a town-like celebration
of the blues that, for 16 years, has been
bring thousands of fans here, rain or shine,
each spring.
ANTHONY "BIG A" SHERROD, Musician: It's wonderful,
man.
It's lovely, lovely.
They love the blues, just like I do.
JEFFREY BROWN: They came from all around the
country and all over the world, including
this contingent from Australia.
This year, the festival featured more than
100 performances.
For the kids, there were racing pigs and a
monkey riding a dog herding goats.
The festival takes its name from juke joints,
informal bars and music venues once scattered
throughout the African-American South as an
answer, in part, to whites-only clubs, a rich
history now in danger of being lost.
Red's Lounge is said to be one of the last
true juke joints in Clarksdale and on a Friday
night was packed, as Frank Rimmer dazzled
on guitar.
RED PADEN, Owner, Red's Lounge: See, I was
keeping it a secret.
I don't know.
Somehow, it got out.
JEFFREY BROWN: Red Paden has been running
this place for more than 40 years.
So why do you think people are coming here
from all over the world?
They keep coming.
RED PADEN: They heard I was a mean son of
a bitch.
That's what that is.
(LAUGHTER)
JEFFREY BROWN: No, really, why are they coming
to Clarksdale?
Why are they coming to Red's?
RED PADEN: Well, it tells a story, man.
And a lot of them have gone through certain
things, you know, but didn't know how to express
themselves.
So, in that music, they have learned how to
express themselves.
JEFFREY BROWN: Clarksdale sits at a very famous
crossroads of blues history, where Route 61,
which runs from New Orleans to Memphis, St.
Louis and beyond, meets Route 49, which runs
across Mississippi.
And it's where, according to lore, blues legend
Robert Johnson sold his soul to the devil
to learn the guitar.
It's home to the Riverside Hotel, on the south
side of town, where singer Bessie Smith died
after a car accident.
And it was once home to legends like Muddy
Waters, Sam Cooke, Ike Turner, and many more.
Juke Joint Festival co-founder Roger Stolle
grew up in Ohio as a fan of the music, and
moved here in 2002 to open Cat Head, a record
store.
He says the downtown was dead, and live music
was struggling to be heard.
ROGER STOLLE, Co-Founder, Juke Joint Festival:
It was just really winding down.
You could almost just see it winding down.
So it's kind of like, well, you make it reliable,
I can bring you tourists, blues fans.
But they're not going to spend the night in
Clarksdale if I can't promise them you have
got music tonight.
JEFFREY BROWN: Today, there are new cafes,
restaurants, hotels and live music across
town, including at many new venues like Ground
Zero Blues Club, co-owned by actor Morgan
Freeman.
Economic challenges remain, but cultural tourism
has been a major factor in the growth.
JOHN HENSHALL, Economist: You could fire a
cannon down the street and not hit anyone.
JEFFREY BROWN: John Henshall is an economist
based in Melbourne, Australia.
He first came here in 2001 by accident, and
has since returned 22 times.
Now he's written a book about its downtown
redevelopment, and lessons for other small
cities.
JOHN HENSHALL: Well, to have something you
can authentically promote, in this case, it's
the blues.
JEFFREY BROWN: Something real.
JOHN HENSHALL: Something real.
And it's not just the music, but certainly
the blues.
That's one of the lessons.
You got to promote it.
You have got to get people engaged.
And increasingly the Clarksdalians themselves
are now recognizing what they have here.
JEFFREY BROWN: You mean they didn't before?
JOHN HENSHALL: They grew up with it.
They didn't realize that it's something could
be so appealing to people beyond the city
limits.
JEFFREY BROWN: In a majority-black area, those
visitors are overwhelmingly white, as are
many of the new businesses.
And the challenge here is to make sure the
benefits are spread evenly.
ARCHIE BUFORD, Owner, Our Grandma's House
of Pancakes: A lot of people depend on the
festival, you know, in Clarksdale, because
of the economy.
JEFFREY BROWN: Archie Buford is owner of Our
Grandma's House of Pancakes, one of a number
of new downtown establishments, but one of
the few black-owned.
ARCHIE BUFORD: What we got to work on is making
sure what we do inside the fence gets outside
to better the community.
The better the community, the better the city.
JEFFREY BROWN: Festival co-founder Roger Stolle.
ROGER STOLLE: You know what it is?
It's the first puzzle piece on that empty
table.
And it was absolutely an empty table.
And the thing about puzzle pieces is, you
can build off of that.
So now you look at it, there's the obvious
things, like, OK, well, we have got live blues
365 nights a year, which we do.
We have a dozen festivals a year, which we
do.
And it just -- it reverberates.
It may not save the town, obviously, on its
own, but it's sort of the foundation of what
we're doing, at least for downtown revitalization.
JEFFREY BROWN: It's a hope for the music,
and for the economic benefits it can bring.
For the "PBS NewsHour," I'm Jeffrey Brown
in Clarksdale, Mississippi.
JUDY WOODRUFF: Tonight, PBS' "American Masters"
presents "Terrence McNally: Every Act of Life,"
a documentary on one of the nation's leading
playwrights and writer of the Broadway musical
"The Full Monty."
PATRICK WILSON, Actor: I was in a prep school,
and my first play that I did was "Next" by
Terrence McNally.
And I remember, by the end of the play, I
was in tears, I couldn't even finish the play,
and the lights went down.
And I just felt very raw, and I felt like,
wow, I guess that's what acting is.
TERRENCE MCNALLY, Playwright: I went by the
theater one night, and I saw Patrick Wilson
on a Gershwin review.
And I thought, this guy's really great, and
we're casting "Full Monty."
The characters in "Full Monty" to me represent
everybody who's got some gumption and wants
to better themselves.
PATRICK WILSON: This show was as much about
life and love and not taking anybody for granted
as any show that I have ever been a part of.
JUDY WOODRUFF: That's "American Masters" tonight
on PBS.
And that is the "NewsHour" for tonight.
On Monday, we will talk with Democratic presidential
candidate Julian Castro.
And earlier with Shields and Brooks, I said
the Democratic debates are next week.
They are actually in two weeks.
I was in too big a hurry.
We will be here to analyze it all.
I'm Judy Woodruff.
Have a great weekend.
Thank you, and good night.
END
