MIKE SPINELLI: Self-driving
cars.
Is it the apocalypse of
automotive enthusiasm?
Matt Farah's here.
Dan Neil's here by Skype.
We're coming back with that
on Road Testament.
[THEME MUSIC PLAYING]
MIKE SPINELLI: So self-driving
cars.
Matt Farah's here.
As I said, Grammy Award-winning
R&B sensation
Dan Neil is also here.
You guys were on a car show.
I can't remember-- what
was it called?
MATT FARAH: It was very
creatively named.
MIKE SPINELLI: Yes.
MATT FARAH: Yeah.
The late--
the average.
DAN NEIL: And that's grading
on the curve, for sure.
MIKE SPINELLI: So self-driving
cars--
I know Dan is really deep
in the technology.
You guys have both at least
seen them race.
MATT FARAH: I have been in the
driver's seat of a car that I
was not driving.
As has Dan-- the same
BMW Track Trainer.
MIKE SPINELLI: Right.
DAN NEIL: At Seca.
MIKE SPINELLI: And NASCAR
did the famous--
what was it?
MATT FARAH: The April
Fool's post.
MIKE SPINELLI: Right, the April
Fool's post last year
that the whole--
MATT FARAH: Well, the problem
with a self-driving NASCAR
race is there probably wouldn't
be any crashes.
And they would lose all
their audience.
MIKE SPINELLI: So outside of
motor sports, we've been
seeing Google do a lot of
things in the last--
really, what is it?
Two years, Dan?
DAN NEIL: Yeah.
The Google car, sure.
About two years.
MIKE SPINELLI: Yeah.
Two years and they have almost
$4 million worth of cars that
drive themselves.
The employees now drive
themselves to work sitting in
a car that drives itself.
They've made huge progress.
And it almost feels like this
could be a real thing now.
I mean, it's like one of those
futuristic things we've been
seeing for years.
MATT FARAH: Well, dude, as we've
proven in many other
ways, Demolition Man
is an accurate
picture of the future--
the Schwarzenegger Library, the
self-driving cars, Taco
Bell taking over.
I mean, it's all happened.
DAN NEIL: It's essentially
a documentary.
MIKE SPINELLI: Exactly.
MATT FARAH: It's a documentary
of things that haven't
happened yet.
When do we get to then?
Soon, sir.
One Spaceballs reference
per show.
MIKE SPINELLI: Exactly.
So all right.
So let's look at what's on
the table right now.
So it's sensors and software
that can detect
the road, that can--
MATT FARAH: Detect pedestrians,
everything.
MIKE SPINELLI: Right.
Keep people safe enough
to drive.
Dan, is that accurate enough
for your technology head?
DAN NEIL: Not really.
But we can carry on.
MATT FARAH: Say the same
thing but with words
twice the size, Dan.
That's usually how you do it.
DAN NEIL: Look.
The interesting thing is first,
this technology's been
underway quietly for decades.
Because dating back to Norman
Bel Geddes and the 1939
World's Fair and automated
cars, the promise of this
technology is huge.
It essentially digitally
doubles the size of the
American infrastructure,
more carrying capacity.
It makes cars vastly safer,
because they are not relying
on the faulty wetware
behind the wheel.
Also, this technology is very,
very robust at the moment.
I think one of the things
that people overlook is
how evolved it is.
They could roll this stuff out
tomorrow but for the testing
and validation phase
that prudent
government would require.
But the big differences are
flight hardware, that is
computers that can sit in cars
in 20 and 30 below 0 and 120
above 0 for years on end
and never have a fault.
And then the processing power
on board and the processing
power between cars.
The other thing that was huge
was when the FCC authorized
the use of a whole part
of the spectrum.
It's a millimeter
wave spectrum.
That gave cars and the
infrastructure the ability to
talk to one another.
And that has been
the big change.
So I think people will
be surprised how
mature this really is.
MATT FARAH: Well,
Dan, two things.
Sorry, Mike.
One thing is the question that
I was talking about with Zack
back at my place was,
what lane does an
automated car drive in?
Does an automated car
go in the lane with
the farthest gap?
Even if it's the left lane and
it obviously would be silly to
assume that anyone would program
these cars to speed
under any circumstance.
You know what I mean?
No one is gonna--
DAN NEIL: Ooh.
MATT FARAH: You disagree?
DAN NEIL: Well, I don't know.
I think that there
will be a wick.
And you will be able
to turn it up.
Because as a practical
matter, people often
have different paces.
If they're late for
an appointment,
they'll want to go fast.
Now, can you program the
car to exceed the law?
That's probably something
that has to be
adjudicated in committee.
MATT FARAH: Well, that's
what I'm saying.
If the speed limit's 55, but
let's call it any highway in
California, 75 is the speed
that people move.
Could you program a car
to go that fast?
And if not, is the car on its
own going to pick the left
lane and sit at 55?
MIKE SPINELLI: Well, pulling
it back a second.
What are the benefits of having
either all the cars on
the road or a significant
portion of them, or even just
a few of them--
MATT FARAH: Well, DUIs would
be virtually eliminated.
At least, for anyone who can
afford one of these cars.
DAN NEIL: And that's a rather
self-centered viewpoint.
MATT FARAH: Save me
money on cabs.
DAN NEIL: Is that the first
thing you think of, is a DUI?
As a parent, I think about
kids coming home from the
prom, though.
And no kid ever needs to die
wrapped around a pine tree if
this technology is
fully in force.
And there are many others.
Like I said, there's
carrying capacity.
There's safety.
If cars are electronically crash
proofed, then you can
make them lighter, because you
no longer have to surround the
occupants in a heavy
steel cage.
And so it's an antecedent to a
wholesale re-engineering of
the automobile.
So that's another thing.
And fit for fuel savings.
MIKE SPINELLI: Dan, you were
saying carrying capacity.
What are you talking
about exactly?
DAN NEIL: Well, there's a
thing called platooning.
And when automobiles are talking
to each other V2V--
that's vehicle-to-vehicle
communications--
they can maintain safer
following distances.
And in fact, they could be
within just a couple of yards
of one another, because you
don't have to accommodate the
human reaction time.
And the car cannot but slow down
as the car ahead of it
slows down.
Now, we have a rudimentary
form of that in the
distance-keeping radar.
And that's another interesting
thing.
Many of the technologies
that we have in modern
cars set the stage.
You know, lane--
MATT FARAH: Lane departure,
and blind spot.
DAN NEIL: Lane detection.
MATT FARAH: And radar cruise
control and all that stuff.
DAN NEIL: In Japan, they
have lane correction.
So you let go of the wheel
and the car will go
down between the lanes.
And that is a big part of a
driver's workload, generally.
MIKE SPINELLI: So like easing
traffic volume tie ups, right?
So that's huge right there.
DAN NEIL: Integrating it.
Timing it.
In a system like Los Angeles,
getting people to merge
cooperatively, that is a huge
fault in the current system.
MIKE SPINELLI: Instead of
speeding up to the end of
where the lane ends,
and cutting in.
MATT FARAH: Yeah, the greed
factor is eliminated there.
DAN NEIL: People drive like
idiots, you know.
Computers hopefully will not
be programmed like idiots.
MATT FARAH: Well, computers
could be programmed to
cooperate with each other,
rather than boxing someone out
for a lane.
DAN NEIL: Right.
But what you asked earlier is
a very interesting point.
Because as this technology
emerges, who gives way?
The autopilot car or the
manually operated car?
You're talking about
a social change,
the society of drivers.
And I think that these cars,
autopilot cars, will have a
zone of privilege.
So that they will be able
to go in the left
lane or the HOV lane.
And they will be able to park
free and all sorts of other
advantages to encourage
the technology.
MIKE SPINELLI: Well,
that's interesting.
California already has
carpool lanes.
We have some carpool
lanes in New York.
MATT FARAH: And you
can drive electric
cars in them and stuff.
MIKE SPINELLI: Right.
So maybe you piggyback
a little bit there.
MATT FARAH: Right.
But if it's not programmed to
speed, believe me, as someone
who uses that carpool lane,
there is nothing worse than a
car going 55 in the
carpool lane.
Because you can't get out.
MIKE SPINELLI: Right.
MATT FARAH: In California.
MATT FARAH: Well, I have to tell
you there's a classist
issue here, because this is
going to be expensive
technology.
Will the upper classes with
their robot chauffeurs have to
give way to the common
man or vice versa?
I think this is not
a technical issue
but a social issue.
MIKE SPINELLI: Well,
it's interesting.
Because of all the social
issues, there are a lot of
legal issues, also.
You've got an insurance
issue, too.
I mean, is it something where
insurance companies will say
that this is such a positive,
robust technology that it will
actually give you breaks on
insurance that'll offset the
cost of the car?
DAN NEIL: The insurance industry
has backed this to
the hilt in Europe and
in the United States.
And China, the central
government wants it to happen.
MATT FARAH: But I have a feeling
though, in America,
because of the sue-happy nature
of this country, that
assuming this comes to market
in the next 20 years, that
you're going to have to sign a
waiver saying, whatever this
car does, I am responsible
for.
So if it's a speeding ticket,
a parking ticket,
does the car know--
DAN NEIL: If the car gets drunk,
for example, and gets a
DUI, it's--
MIKE SPINELLI: Yeah.
Well, that's interesting, too.
Because I heard this.
And correct me if I'm wrong.
That automakers are concerned
about the liability that they
might have by having a car
that drives itself.
Are they on the hook?
Or is it going to be--
it sounds more like it's
going to be something
where, as the operator--
MATT FARAH: You must have to
sign some kind of waiver.
I would love to have it if there
was an automated car
that you could drive yourself
and it had a
breathalyzer in it.
You sit in it.
[BLOWS]
You are wasted, I'm driving.
And then you're clear.
Then you're good.
MIKE SPINELLI: Right.
And it needs to have some
jokes in there, too.
Like some jabs.
MATT FARAH: Like Siri.
MIKE SPINELLI: Like, Siri,
am I OK to drive?
F no.
MATT FARAH: Siri, I have a dead
prostitute in my trunk.
The nearest garbage dump
is 4.3 miles away.
[CAR ZOOMING NOISE]
MIKE SPINELLI: I will
drive you there.
Exactly.
DAN NEIL: Wow.
This got dark.
MIKE SPINELLI: The show
just took a turn.
MATT FARAH: It happens.
MIKE SPINELLI: So it sounds like
the legislation allowing
this, that I think California
just passed and I think
Nevada's already there,
has that--
MATT FARAH: There ain't nothing
to hit in Nevada.
MIKE SPINELLI: Well, right.
They've got nothing to hit.
But is that because the
insurance companies are
backing it?
Is that kind of a lobbyist
sort of way in?
DAN NEIL: I don't know that
automation necessarily has the
force of big money lobbying
behind it.
But I think that policy makers,
public and private
policy makers, recognize that
it's a huge windfall.
And as I say, they would be
right to privilege it in
various ways.
It is a very powerful
technology.
And I think that often this
conversation comes up about,
well, what will be lost if we
let cars drive themselves?
Don't Americans--
aren't they particularly
entitled automotively?
And I honestly tell you--
I don't see anyone objecting
to this, even
hardcore car guys.
It's not a loss.
And beside, people are sick
of driving anyway.
It's lousy out there.
MATT FARAH: And it's not like
there won't be an option to
drive the thing yourself.
It's not like they're
eliminating the steering
wheel, eliminating the pedals.
And it's not like Ferrari
is going to make a
self-driving 458.
We're talking about, for all
intents and purposes, luxury
cars and boring commuter cars.
MIKE SPINELLI: And
interestingly, I thought that
we were all going to
be against this.
It's going to eliminate
the fun of driving
and all that stuff.
But I actually think--
and maybe it comes from
living in a city--
that this is a great thing.
And then you make driving--
MATT FARAH: It's the
fun driving.
MIKE SPINELLI: It's
the fun driving.
You can save driving for just
the times when it's fun.
It becomes like a power sport.
MATT FARAH: It's going to be
like gasoline in 50 years.
You know what I mean?
Gasoline is going to be so
expensive that it's going to
be for recreational use.
And not for getting around.
DAN NEIL: Like crack.
MIKE SPINELLI: Like crack.
DAN NEIL: May I just
jump in here?
Matt said something
very interesting.
MATT FARAH: For once.
MIKE SPINELLI: That
was twice today.
DAN NEIL: Oh, so
he's on a roll.
Totally roll.
The deal is this.
Matt says, it's not like
they're going to
make you not drive.
And that, I question.
Because first of all, they're
going to incentivize automated
driving in all sorts of ways.
So it's going to really be
more and more expensive,
costly in time and money,
to drive yourself.
Also because of this peculiar
relationship between autopilot
and manually operated cars, it
seems like there could be a
fair amount of friction.
And I think that there will be
penalties attached to manually
operating your car, especially
in dense urban environments.
I think that there would be
strong incentives to get
manually operated cars
off the road.
MIKE SPINELLI: Yeah.
I mean, that's sort of
the law of unintended
consequences for this.
I mean, if there are cost
savings, and once the machine,
the sort of legislative machine
starts getting behind
this, and the insurance
machine--
MATT FARAH: I don't
know about--
I think it's going to be tough
to get people who like old
cars to give up their
old cars.
And someone, somewhere,
is going to say it's
unconstitutional to demand
someone drive
this type of car.
Right now, as long
as a car passes--
DAN NEIL: Driving is so clearly
a privilege, though.
It's not a right.
MATT FARAH: I--
yeah.
Oh, well, OK.
All right.
MIKE SPINELLI: Well,
technically,
though, you're right.
But not technically, sort of
socially, I could see a total
automotive Tea Party--
MATT FARAH: A huge backlash.
MIKE SPINELLI: An automotive Tea
Party movement, of people
driving Falcons, like, I'll give
up this Ford Falcon from
my cold dead hands.
Exactly.
DAN NEIL: Are we talking
Australian Falcons?
MIKE SPINELLI: I don't
know why I picked
Falcons, of all cars.
DAN NEIL: No, it's a good one.
I like it.
It's free association.
It's cool.
MATT FARAH: Yeah.
If this happens, Dan might never
be able to buy his dream
Facel Vega.
DAN NEIL: Oh.
MIKE SPINELLI: That's right.
MATT FARAH: It's your
Facel Vega--
DAN NEIL: Matt, did I tell you,
at Pebble Beach I saw my
three dream cars, all
within 45 minutes?
All sitting on the same field.
MATT FARAH: Sidetrack
from automated cars.
MIKE SPINELLI: OK.
MATT FARAH: Dan has the
most interesting
list of dream cars.
Dan, share your dream
car list.
DAN NEIL: Well, there's the
DS 21, Citroen DS 21.
Facel Vega HK500.
And I'm thinking a '77,
'78 Aston Martin V8.
MIKE SPINELLI: Oh.
Well, I'm with you on that.
I'm totally with you on that.
MATT FARAH: His three dream
cars all drive terribly.
DAN NEIL: Impossible to drive.
They're lousy.
They're not even cars.
But--
MIKE SPINELLI: But you--
DAN NEIL: But I'm sorry,
to return to point.
MIKE SPINELLI: No, it's OK.
So would there be--
technology moving the way it
does, I could possibly see an
add-on drive-it-yourself
technology market, an
aftermarket.
MATT FARAH: An aftermarket
self-driving?
Oh, man.
MIKE SPINELLI: So you could have
that '78 Vantage with--
MATT FARAH: Oh, my God.
MIKE SPINELLI: With, like,
servos on the steering wheel.
MATT FARAH: All you had to
say is British car with
aftermarket electronics.
I just got--
yup.
DAN NEIL: That's just what
the Aston Martin needs.
That's exactly right.
So I think manually operated
cars will be de-incentivized.
Look, 30% of high school,
driving-age kids did not get a
driver's license last year.
30%.
That's up from 12% in 1983.
Forever and always, getting a
driver's license as a teenager
is a ritual of growing up in
America, being an American.
That is no longer operative.
The other thing is that people
are getting out of the vintage
car hobby like they're
under gunfire.
People are selling
those things.
They're getting rid of them.
Because if you have a perfectly
restored vintage
car, you can't drive it on a
modern road unless you get a
restomod, which is a whole
other set of issues.
And now you've raised the bar of
enthusiasts to where you're
working on your own car, you're
building your own
restomod so you can just
go out and drive
it at Cars and Coffee.
I think that the romance is
over for Americans and the
automobile.
Over.
MATT FARAH: So that
makes me sad.
I know how Dan thinks.
I know that Dan is a very
progressive thinker when it
comes to this kind of thing.
DAN NEIL: I'm just looking
at the statistics.
MIKE SPINELLI: Yeah, well,
that's the thing.
MATT FARAH: I try to ignore.
MIKE SPINELLI: I mean,
the current--
MATT FARAH: I just completely
ignore.
DAN NEIL: It's easier
that way, for sure.
MATT FARAH: I know.
MIKE SPINELLI: You know, it's
hard to not look at the
statistics and say
that something
is definitely happening.
It doesn't leave room for a
possible social resurgence.
MATT FARAH: Well, I didn't
have Skype when I was 16.
I had to leave my house
to have sex.
I mean, that was really--
DAN NEIL: That is absolutely
right.
And as far away from the house
as possible, I'm sure.
MIKE SPINELLI: But the other
thing is, though--
DAN NEIL: I can hear Matt's mom,
by the way, saying, don't
bring that cooze back here.
Do not bring that cooze
back to my house.
MATT FARAH: My mom was very
cooze-friendly, actually.
But I had to go pick them up--
MIKE SPINELLI: Good for her.
MATT FARAH: --in
my red Mustang.
DAN NEIL: Hit the public
restroom, that sort of thing.
MIKE SPINELLI: So all right.
So what about it coming
back as kind of--
let's say this happens.
The kids are more into the
gadgets, and they sort of
adopt the idea of not driving
in a way that--
DAN NEIL: They already have.
MIKE SPINELLI: They
already have.
But what about the kids
that are into vinyl?
You know?
I mean, what about the niche
area of automotive enthusiasm?
DAN NEIL: I think there will
be some accommodation.
But I think that it's
going to be limited.
And also, gentlemen--
you, me, the three of us-- we
are rapidly quickly becoming
model train enthusiasts,
right?
MATT FARAH: I used
to love trains.
MIKE SPINELLI: That's really
scary and sad.
DAN NEIL: The automotive
enthusiast community is
growing increasingly narrow,
cliquish, eccentric, and
hermetic, right?
MIKE SPINELLI: What are
you trying to say?
DAN NEIL: Get off my lawn.
Right.
And it's true.
I don't think most kids--
well, I say most.
That's reckless.
I think many kids probably
cannot even relate to what we
regard as fun in automobiles.
Just I think the door's
closed in many ways.
MIKE SPINELLI: So does that
mean eventually we'll be
downstairs with our little
hats and the rheostats--
MATT FARAH: With our helmets
and our driving suits.
MIKE SPINELLI: Helmets and
driving suits with the
rheostats--
DAN NEIL: You asked.
I'm telling you, man.
It's the truth.
We are eccentric and
weird and isolated.
MATT FARAH: At the same time, I
do like the idea of drive--
maybe-- what about this, Dan?
What if there were certain
roads, call them metro Los
Angeles, where it was an
automated driving zone.
And in this heavily congested
zone, either your car
automatically did it,
or you were required
to switch to autodrive.
Whereas up on Mulholland, up
in the canyons, out in the
desert, out in the middle of
nowhere, it was legally--
you could have the option
of driving yourself.
Because these are clearly
enthusiast-oriented roads, versus--
DAN NEIL: Matt, you're
on fire today.
That's the third very wise--
MATT FARAH: Actually
smart thing?
MIKE SPINELLI: Very wise.
MATT FARAH: I mean, if it's all
GPS-based anyway, right?
Then it should be--
MIKE SPINELLI: Yeah.
But let's just be clear.
What's the adoption timeline
look like for
something like this?
We're not talking about
next year or five
years, even, right?
Or are we?
DAN NEIL: Well, I think the
technology is fairly
front-loaded.
I think it's a regulatory
issue.
And as I said, I think the
consumer acceptance threshold
is quite low.
As I've said in a story
recently, give people a button
that says Home, and
they will push it.
But Matt is right.
In terms of the incremental
rollout of this technology,
it's feasible--
I think probably advisable--
that there would be zones
of automation.
And again, you would be credited
or incentivized
somehow to turn over control in
dense urban environments.
Oh, there is one other thing
that I realized when I was
doing research into this.
In the '90s and the early 2000s,
it was all about V2I.
It was about
vehicle-to-infrastructure.
And the thought was that the
cars would act cooperatively,
like corpuscles in
a bloodstream.
MATT FARAH: You dropped
corpuscles.
MIKE SPINELLI: That was
an excellent analogy.
MATT FARAH: Yeah, wow.
MIKE SPINELLI: And
a great word.
DAN NEIL: Oh, did
you like that?
All right.
OK.
Let me call my editor
and put that in.
But what I think is
interesting--
and again, it's revealing on
the technological side-- is
that manufacturers are no
longer talking about
automobiles cooperating with
the infrastructure.
They've all become very
self-contained.
They have machine vision.
They have proximity sensing.
They have lane-keeping,
automatic
braking, automatic steering.
Oh, yeah, electric steering
and electric
brakes helped a lot.
So the vision of this technology
has gone from being
sort of a cooperative,
collectivist, if you will
pardon the word, communistic
enterprise--
MATT FARAH: Ooh.
DAN NEIL: --to being one very
sort of individually
determined, and yet
cooperative.
It's very much more
an emphasis on
the individual vehicle.
MIKE SPINELLI: Well, before
we wrap it up--
we talked a little bit in the
beginning about racing.
So will racing eventually fall
to self-driving technology?
MATT FARAH: I would
hate to see that.
Because that sort of defeats
the purpose, doesn't it?
MIKE SPINELLI: So what did
you guys just go see?
MATT FARAH: Oh, the
self-driving BMW.
Well, the self-driving BMW
is designed as a--
Oh, the BMW,
MIKE SPINELLI: Right.
MATT FARAH: --training tool.
So it was at Laguna Seca.
And they have a pro driver
record the perfect lap.
And you sit in the
driver's seat.
And you can either have
the car drive you--
and it runs the perfect lap at
like 8/10 or 9/10, right?
Or you drive it, but it's got
these little vibrators on the
back of the steering wheel.
So if you drift too far off the
line one way or the other,
it buzzes you and lets you know
to adjust either way.
MIKE SPINELLI: That's
sort of cool.
DAN NEIL: It's haptic
feedback.
MIKE SPINELLI: Dan, what
were you gonna say?
DAN NEIL: That's haptic
feedback.
MIKE SPINELLI: Yeah.
Haptic feedback.
MATT FARAH: It was
haptic feedback.
It was neat.
MIKE SPINELLI: It's
kind of cool.
But shouldn't the display--
what do you call it?
MATT FARAH: The heads-up
display?
MIKE SPINELLI: The
head-up display.
Shouldn't the heads-up
display--
MATT FARAH: Show you the line
like in Gran Turismo?
MIKE SPINELLI: Show you the
line like in Gran Turismo.
Right.
Exactly.
DAN NEIL: To be honest--
MATT FARAH: That'd work, too.
Yeah.
DAN NEIL: The Track Trainer is
a relatively primitive piece
of machinery.
It has LED lights that sort of
keep you in the corridor.
But obviously and certainly
technically feasible to
superimpose the correct racing
line, like a video
game, on the track.
And how much learned
helplessness would be involved
in something like that
is open to question.
You probably would get very
reliant on the line, just like
you are in a video game.
Just like Tom, your
insane roommate.
You know, he has the line and
basically, he follows it.
MATT FARAH: Regardless
of what the rest of
the traffic is doing.
DAN NEIL: Whatever the line is
made of, he's following it.
MATT FARAH: Last bit,
slightly creepy.
Because this started off as,
is it the apocalypse?
MIKE SPINELLI: Right.
MATT FARAH: Now, Google, which
everyone is already kind of
scared of and has a habit for
maybe abusing our personal
information a little bit.
MIKE SPINELLI: Perhaps.
MATT FARAH: Street View.
If we have all these
Google-softwared vehicles
running around, are we going to
have real-time Street View?
Are we going to be able
to follow your car?
Are we gonna be able
to track you?
Is this all sort of
a creepy ploy?
DAN NEIL: My God, Matt.
Who are you?
I've never seen--
MATT FARAH: I stopped
smoking pot.
All of a sudden, I can think.
MIKE SPINELLI: You're like
George Costanza.
DAN NEIL: That's a
fantastic point.
MIKE SPINELLI: You're like
George Costanza when they had
the contest.
DAN NEIL: Yes, all of this.
I'm sorry.
MIKE SPINELLI: Sorry.
DAN NEIL: All of
this involves--
MIKE SPINELLI: This was
less important than
what you were saying.
DAN NEIL: Matt, I think,
has identified
something very important.
That's a loss of privacy.
That will be a big threat.
That will be a big talking point
as people oppose this
technology.
Because in order for a car to
go where it wants to go, you
also have to surrender quite
a bit of your own personal
anonymity behind the wheel.
MATT FARAH: Yeah.
It's creepy.
MIKE SPINELLI: And
it's creepy.
And on that creepy note--
Road Testament.
Thanks, Matt Farah, Dan Neil.
Always a pleasure.
MATT FARAH: Stay black, buddy.
DAN NEIL: Thanks, guys.
MIKE SPINELLI: Thanks
for dropping by.
That's Road Taste-ament,
we'll see--
Road Taste-ament, where we'll
be tasting-- speaking of
Taste-ament, you're
a very good cook.
I just wanted to mention that
Matt Farah is a fine--
MATT FARAH: You don't get
this fat by accident.
MIKE SPINELLI: That's it.
DAN NEIL: You're looking
very svelte, Matt.
MATT FARAH: I'm going
the right direction.
20 pounds down.
Thank you, not smoking pot.
MIKE SPINELLI: There you go.
[CAR ENGINE]
