>>Female Presenter: It's a pleasure to welcome
all of you to Google New York.
We have today Gail Simmons in conversation
with Frank Bruni.
As many of you Gail Simmons is perhaps best
known for her role as a judge on Bravo's Top
Chef, an Emmy Award winning show.
As well as her hosting role on Bravo's Top
Chef Just Desserts and she is today releasing
her new memoir called Talking with My Mouth
Full, which chronicles her role, her evolution
from amateur eater to a professional eater.
A role I think many of us envy here at Google.
We are lucky enough to have her in conversation
today with the legendary critic of the New
York Times, Frank Bruni.
Please welcome Gail Simmons and Frank Bruni.
[Applause]
>>Gail Simmons: Hi Frank.
>>Frank Bruni: Hi Gail, how are you?
>>Gail Simmons: I'm good, thanks for coming
today.
>>Frank Bruni: I'm honored to do it.
If you guys have not picked up a copy of Gail's
book, I recommend it.
You, if I can begin with a compliment-
>>Gail Simmons: Sure
>>Frank Bruni: -I read a lot of memoirs-
>>Gail Simmons: Yes.
>>Frank Bruni: -and I think one of the hardest
things is to write in, with a sort of conversational
allure of the way you speak.
And I saw you in the book and it's a delightful
breezy read and-
>>Gail Simmons: Thank you.
>>Frank Bruni: -we'll talk a little about
that now.
>>Gail Simmons: Yeah, thank you.
>>Frank Bruni: Since we're here on the day
of the book's publication, what made you decide
to write the book?
>>Gail Simmons: You know it's a funny thing,
and actually Frank has written his own memoir
too, so I'm sure you will understand the angst
involved?
When I set out to write a book, I wanted to
write a book, I wanted to tell my story and
my first instinct in doing that was to write
a cookbook because in the food universe, or
in the food landscape, that's sort of what
everyone goes to first.
But when I started thinking more about it,
I thought the story I wanted to tell, I couldn't
really do that way.
There are so many questions that always come
up.
First of all I don't cook on television, I
eat on television and so the questions I get
I think are slightly different than most people
who are chefs on television or who are cooking
for a living as opposed to eating, publicly.
Which sounds crass but that's what I do.
So I started sort of thinking, well there's
about 20 to 25 questions that I always get.
From people on the street, from strangers,
from my family and from my friends, from journalists
and I started answering them.
Sort of writing them down and answering them
over a series of a few months and realized
that the best way to answer them, for the
public, was to tell the story of how I got
here in the first place.
So that's what I decided to do.
>>Frank Bruni: Now you just said people know
you as a public eater-
>>Gail Simmons: mmm hmm
>>Frank Bruni: - not as a cook.
But one of the things that, I knew this about
you, but I was reacquainted with it when I
read the book; you have serious cooking chops.
You have education.
Tell people a little about-
>>Gail Simmons: I do.
>>Frank Bruni ñ the path before you ended
up at Food &Wine Magazine.
>>Gail Simmons: Well, you know and it's interesting
because as much as I eat on television, also
one of the questions I get so often is really
like, what do you know?
Like how made you- you just woke up one day
and decide to eat and be mean to people?
>>Frank Bruni: Right.
>>Gail Simmons: For a living?
[Audience laughs]
>>Gail Simmons: Which is not true.
I'm actually relatively nice most of the time-
>>Frank Bruni: And you'd already been mean
to people before.
>>Gail Simmons: Right.
Yes, exactly-
>>Frank Bruni: Yeah, so you-
>>Gail Simmons: Exactly, I've been mean to
people for years.
But I do, I used to cook.
I was a cook.
I would not ever call myself a chef.
I did not lead a kitchen, but I cooked in
kitchens and I went to culinary school.
I was in college trying to figure out what
we're all trying to figure out when we graduate
from college and feel kind of hopelessly lost
and disappointed in myself that I couldn't
get up the strength and energy to write my
LSAT's and be a layer like my family wanted
me to.
But realized that I really loved to write
and I really loved to cook and so I got a
job in journalism.
I was living in Canada, I grew up in Toronto
and I got a job as an intern at a magazine,
at the city magazine of Toronto called Toronto
Life.
It's actually a award winning publication,
great writing.
You know somewhat of a New York magazine.
But it's a monthly and I was an intern there
and that's when I realized, wow people write
restaurant reviews for a living and write
about food and there's so much going on in
the city, the energy that I had never known
before, when I was young.
And I realized that food was sort of the beat
that I wanted to cover.
But I was 22 years old and there was stiff
competition for those very coveted jobs.
So I went to my editor and sort of asked you
know how do I do this?
I want to be a food writer.
Food writer, big dream.
And he said you know, that's all well and
nice Gail but any writer, no matter what you
want to cover, you need to be the owner of
that craft, you need to be an authority, an
expert, or else what makes you different than
the other you know, thousands of people who
want to be a food writer as well?
Now, at the time the Food Network was very
new, I just got an email address that same
year, so now I'm dating myself but you can
imagine, like that's where we were, imagine
where we were in the world of technology?
Yes, there was Google, in its infancy I guess
and I had just got an email address, there
were no blog, no one knew what blogs were.
There just wasnít the proliferation of writing
and media around food.
So there were very few jobs available.
And he really suggested, if you want to write
about food you need to learn how to cook.
You need to learn about food.
There's kind of no way to do it, you need
to be an authority.
So I packed up my bags and left Canada and
I moved here and went to culinary school.
And I then, from there went to work in kitchens,
because I thought when I graduated culinary
school that I would just snap my fingers and
get a job at Gourmet Magazine and be a food
writer and the world would be perfect.
But my career counselor at culinary school
brought it to my attention that just because
you've done everything once, doesn't make
you a chef, doesnít make you an expert.
Same as you know, you graduate medical school,
I donít want you performing open heart surgery
on me.
It's kind of dramatic but you know, you still
arenít, you don't know it enough.
So he convinced me to go work on the line.
So I cooked here, in New York, for a little
while.
At two very extraordinary, high quality restaurants
where I got my butt handed to me.
>>Frank Bruni: Very different restaurants-
>>Gail Simmons: Very different restaurants-
>>Frank Bruni: -from each other.
>>Gail Simmons: Right, one was sort of very
classic four star, it was at the time four
star you know Le Cirque, which in its day,
in its heyday at sort of the end of the 90s
was really the kind of power dining restaurant
in New York.
And it was an extraordinary place to cook
because it had an open kitchen.
So I could stand on the line every night and
watch really like the leaders of industry
and of the country and movie stars and you
know, all these extraordinary people eat the
food that I would make them.
Which, you know I was 23 now, was really an
amazing kind of moment to be cooking in New
York.
There was, you know money was flowing like
water.
Remember those days?
So and then from there I went to work at Vong,
which is no longer open sadly, but John-Georges
Vongerichten's Thai fusion restaurant, which
at the time was ground breaking.
It really was one of the first restaurants
in the country that really highlighted Southeast
Asian cooking.
With, you know, very classic technique and
it was an amazing place too because of the
ingredients I got to use.
I had otherwise never seen before.
And from there I went back to writing, because
I knew all the time when I was cooking that
I didnít want to be a chef.
I needed to just learn how to just speak the
language.
>>Frank Bruni: We'll come back to your Jeffrey
Steingarten experience.
>>Gail: Yes.
Yes.
>>Frank: But before we go there-
>>Gail: Yeah.
>>Frank: - you say in the book, a big conversation
ongoing in the culinary world all the time
is why there aren't more female chefs.
And in the book, you say you got a little
bit of an insight into that ñ
>>Gail: Yes.
>>Frank: -from your time in those kitchens.
Talk about that.
>>Gail: You know, it's a just interesting
and delicate conversation because, obviously
people get very upset and rightfully so, at
last check, and I donít want to be quoted
on this position, and maybe I shouldn't say
this, because this is being recorded.
But you know, there is no denying, it is a
fact, it is a scientific fact, it is a mathematical
equation that there are less women in kitchens,
cooking in professional kitchens, than men.
I'm not being sexist by saying that, it's
known.
And so people are always asking why why why,
is it that women aren't as good cooks as men,
are women not as strong and as you know, able
as men?
You know we get that on Top Chef all the time.
Why haven't more women won Top Chef than men?
And the answer I think is a lot simpler than
people want to make it.
And I am simplifying things; I understand
it's a massive topic and a huge conversation.
What I found working in restaurants is really,
it's biological and in a lot of ways, over
simplifying it it's the same reason that there
are a lot less women who are plumbers than
men.
That's not to say that women wouldn't make
great plumbers but itís a very physically
demanding job.
And it's demanding in ways-
>>Frank: In crude ways.
>>Gail: In crude ways.
I mean it's really, it's physical manual labor.
Until you are the chef, meaning the head of
a kitchen you know, the word chef really means
boss, so until you are the boss you are a
line cook, you are a cook.
And you are really executing someone else's
vision and you are doing manual labor.
You know, you're not really using your own
creative skills; you are executing something
for someone else's menu that needs to be exactly
the same hundred times a day, every single
day of the year, 7 days a week.
And so it's very physically demanding, you're
on your feet in front of fire using knives.
Women can do all that stuff, there's no question,
I think actually a kitchen really is a meritocracy
in terms of skill and ability.
What I think comes into play when you think
about women at high levels in kitchens is
that lets say it takes 10 years to be a chef,
to really become the head of a kitchen.
You know, by the time you go through culinary
school and work your way up the line as you
need to do to really become a professional
chef at that high level.
So let's say you started around 20-22, biologically
until we as women can figure out a way to
have men nurse and carry, physically inside,
our babies, you know when you-
After 10 years of working in a kitchen it's
very hard, it's very hard to have to be a
mother and work evenings weekends and holidays
as chefs need to do cause that's when the
kitchen is open.
You know, the shop is open you have to be
there.
That's not to say that women don't do it,
but much less women are able to sustain it
than men.
It doesnít mean we're not bad ass and it
doesnít mean we're not hardcore and awesome
and strong and there's some amazing female
chefs.
But if you kinda look at New York, and obviously
New York is the toughest restaurant town,
we all know.
Frank knows better than anyone.
And the restaurant world, which makes me sad
but if you can think of five, I ask this in
the book and it's always a test and I'd love
someone to prove me wrong.
Name five women who run New York City kitchens,
who run more than two New York City kitchens.
It's almost impossible.
I can tell you 12 men in New York who run
5 or more kitchens all over the world.
And I don't think that's because men aren't-
women aren't as good as that.
I think it's just because it's physically
very difficult for women to be in 5 places
and still have the responsibilities that we
still have at home.
>>Frank: You- How many people here know who
Jeffrey Steingarten is?
Most people?
Ok, so good.
How many of you knew that Gail worked for
him for a couple years?
>>Gail: And did [unintelligible].
>>Frank: Wow, they're pretty good.
>>Gail: There we go, yeah.
>>Frank: You guys are good Gail-ologists.
>>Gail: Thank you.
Yes, that's a major-
>>Frank: What you don't know until you read
the book is what the experience of working
with him is like.
So let's first talk about his chocolate and
diet Coke habit.
>>Gail: Oh yes.
You know, it's funny I really wrote this as
a love letter to him.
It really remains to be seen if he will-
>>Frank: Love letter?
>>Gail: - take it that way.
You know, working for Jeffrey was the greatest
education I could have ever asked for.
Yes, culinary school taught me how to cook
but Jeffrey taught me how to read, how to
do research.
And there's no question I think, it's no secret
that you know, he has a lot of eccentricities
that-
>>Frank: Talk about your interview for the
job.
>>Gail: Yes and he has a diet Coke and chocolate
habit.
Which you know, the chocolate part I'm all
for, diet Coke is a personal preference.
But he ñ the interview process kind of says
it all and rightfully so.
Everyone wants to think that he is sort of
this mad scientist, which he is in a lot of
ways.
But after working for him for a long time
I came to realize it's much more calculated
than that.
You know, he's the food critic for Vogue and
he has this long line of women who have been
his assistants over the years.
We all last about 2 years, some a little more
a little less depending.
And I came to him because I'd never read Vogue
in my life, until I went to work for Jeffrey.
It's you know, the greatest fashion publication
ever in the world.
But I was never a very fashionable person.
Especially until my early 20s I couldnít
have told ya the name of a designer label
if I tried.
But when I was at culinary school and cooking
on the line, someone gave me his book to read
"The Man Who Ate Everything" which you should
add to your reading lists, if you haven't
already read it.
I think it's one the greatest food, pieces
of food writing ever.
And I decided this is the man I want to work
for.
In it he talks about his assistant how one
day she's searching for a very rare ingredient
in Chinatown and the next day she's testing
recipes and the next day she's doing research
for him and interviewing the greatest chefs
in the world.
And I thought this is my job.
I want to be a food writer and this is the
job I need.
So I went to my culinary school after I'd
been cooking on the line and said, do you
guys know this man?
I didn't know if anyone knew him.
I didn't know he was acclaimed as he was.
And they said, yes, actually we do know him
and we happen to know he's looking for an
assistant.
So serendipity definitely played a role.
So they got me an interview with him and I
showed up at his house after cooking one night.
I was cooking the lunch shift at Vong, so
I finished every day around 6 o'clock and
I went to his house and he kept me there for
about 3 hours.
It was the most grueling; I mean really, people
should be studying his methods.
It was the most grueling interview I'd ever
done, will ever do I think in my life.
He made me taste wine and give him my tasting
notes.
He made me translate off the cuff Spanish
and French.
Because you know everyone puts in their resume
because we all took some Spanish.
I actually, my Spanish is pretty good my French
is pretty good but you know, you put on your
resume at the bottom languages, French and
Spanish and he was like great here you go
read this book and translate it for me.
It was actually, it was a book by, the Spanish
book he gave me was a cookbook by Ferran Adria,
one of the greatest chefs of all time at El
Bulli.
And I had to kinda translate, sight unseen,
his recipes.
Very complicated recipes that use you know,
very esoteric ingredients like you know, a
lot of powders and crazy chemicals that at
the time I had never heard of before.
So that was an adventure.
He definitely criticized a lot of my answers
and I walked out of there thinking well that
was a complete failure.
I really bombed that, like I couldn't believe.
But you know what; I got to spend 3 hours
with Jeffrey Steingarten.
And even in the interview I learned so much.
At the time I remember, I didnít know what
a tamale was.
I'm from Canada, I just want to say that again
one more time.
[audience laughs]
>>Gail: We donít have, we donít have a lot
of great Mexican, there isn't the Mexican
community in Canada that there is here.
There is, you know, I had not ever really
eaten great Mexican food, I didnít know what
a tamale was.
I thought it was a plant, maybe a vegetable
and he had just gotten back from a tamale
festival where he had been judging a competition
and he was talking about them and I- it was
just embarrassing when I think back at how
many mistakes I made in that interview.
But he called me a week later and offered
me the job.
And what I found amazing after working for
him, what I realized was that what I had said
kinda didnít matter.
He was just testing sort of my strength of
character and that I wouldnít buckle under
his demands and that when I started working
for him I realized that there was this incredible
network of women who worked for him before
me and his bookkeeper who was working there
at the same time as me and who went to work
for him after me.
And we all kinda share this very same, I guess
strength, I had two older brothers and so
I got bullied a lot as a kid, in a good way
you know teased and pushed.
Knew how to provoke me.
But ultimately were always really protective
of me.
And Jeffrey could sort of see that and knew
that I wouldnít put up with any of his shtick.
And so we ended up really getting along well.
He definitely pushed my buttons.
But he also taught me so much about food and
eating and-
>>Frank: And about the decomposition of beef.
>>Gail: And about, exactly, about how quickly
beef could rot when left on a counter in July
in an unairconditioned apartment with maggots.
So that was a really educational moment in
my life, for sure.
>>Frank: You said he made you taste the wine
and give your tasting notes.
In the book you also say he made you guess
the grape, but you donít tell us whether
you got the guess right.
>>Gail: I didnít get the grape right.
I mean it was a red, it was a Spanish red.
Of course, I mean I was 23 I'd only been drinking
legally for 2 years in this country anyway.
In Canada I'd been drinking since I was 14.
[Audience giggle]
>>Gail: But, not that that's legal and I'd
never did it.
>>Frank: Not that you're, you're not advising
anybody.
>>Gail: I was responsible, I was never driving,
you should never- Anyway, that's bad.
But I didn't get it right.
I didnít get the grape right but I definitely
gave him decent notes.
Like I could tell the you know, kind of the
general characteristics of the wine.
You know, it was very spicy and it was a pretty
full bodied red like you know, a Spanish red
wine.
That's all I remember about it but I remember
being ridiculed because I had no idea really
what I was talking about.
All good lessons to learn.
>>Frank: In all of this time, in the cooking
in the kitchens, working with Jeffrey are
you ever thinking I want to be on TV?
>>Gail: Never.
There wasn't really, I mean I guess there
was food television, the Food Network existed.
Julia Child certainly, I mean that's kind
of the funny thing about food television,
that we talk about it as its new.
And I still think of food television, certainly
food competition, you know reality, the mix
of reality television and food television
as a very new thing.
Julia Child had been cooking on television
since the 60s so it's actually not and Jacques
PÈpin certainly, it's not that new but it
was not in my consciousness the way that now
people tell me every day they want to be on
television, they want to cook on television,
they want to be a chef.
To a lot of people, being a chef is being
on television.
There's an irony there.
But certainly it was never anything that entered
my mind really until I was told to go on television.
>>Frank: So talk a little bit about how, I
mean you're at Food & Wine magazine at that
point, how you end up through no particular-
>>Gail: Right.
>>Frank: -designs at it or cut concerted effort
ending up on Top Chef.
>>Gail: I, when I left Jeffrey I went to work
for Daniel Boulud a many years, chef of many
many restaurants all over the world but certainly
he's a New York, we can call him our own even
if he's French.
He's certainly our adopted hero.
And I worked for him in public relations,
so for many years I spent time working behind
the scenes on everything that Daniel did on
television.
So I came to know a lot of the sort of food
producers in the city and a lot of food media
magazines and newspaper.
And I came to know the people at Food & Wine
magazine which is how I then moved to go work
for Food & Wine where, which has been my sort
of home for seven years now.
But when I first went to Food & Wine, the
person whose job I had taken had done a lot
of television for them kind of as their brand
ambassador.
He'd gone on television to talk, then what
that meant was when New York One or the Today
Show, the early show, needed someone to talk
about recipes for Easter dinner or wine bargains
or outdoor entertaining in the summer time,
he would be the one to do the cooking segments.
So when he left there was sort of a hole,
our Editor in Chief couldn't do all of it
and she actually you know, as much as she
is an incredible knowledge of food, she's
not had professional cooking training.
And I happened to have that professional cooking
training that the guy before me had had so
when I first went they asked if I would do
a little media training and start doing those
type of segments.
So I started doing segments here and there,
small things like that on television two or
three minutes.
Very nerve wracking, and I try not to do this
very often, you look at back on those early
segments it was mortifying, I was so nervous
because it's very hard to do live television.
And I started doing more and more of it and
started to being a little else's nervous and
about a year into my job, which this whole
part of my job was a very side piece.
It was kind of my extracurricular activity
on the side and when I was simultaneously
running part of the marketing department at
Food & Wine, I was called into the VP of Marketing's
office, she's now our publisher but at the
time she was our VP of Marketing.
And she called me into her office on like
a random Tuesday in September and said so,
we're thinking of doing this reality food
show with Bravo, we havenít really ironed
out the details but we're doing a partnership
with them and they want to interview a bunch
of our editors and if they like you they might
have you on as kind of a guest judge.
So can you go to 30 Rock tomorrow morning
at 8 am and do a little screen test?
And my first reaction was I don't know what
a screen test is.
And I donít watch reality television and
I'm scared to death of reality television
because at the time too, reality television
at the time.
This was 2005, we've come a long way in the
6ish years since this happened.
Six and a half years.
You know, reality television to me at the
time meant Fear Factor or Survivor.
So in my head, the only thing that I can think
is like how am I gonna tell my mother that
I'm gonna be like on a desert island eating
bugs you know, tied to a tree or something
crazy like that.
And what is Food & Wine putting me up to?
So I went to 30 Rock and they put me, Bravo
ñ the producer for Bravo put me in a little
room with a camera and started asking me questions.
And at the end of the interview I sort of
thought; alright well that was that and I
didnít think twice about it.
And for a month we didnít hear anything.
And in early October our publisher got a call
from Bravo saying "We're making the show,
it's called Top Chef and we need Gail to fly
to San Francisco to shoot the first season."
So I literally packed up everything I owned
and went there literally thinking I would
go for 3 weeks, I left my job, I mean I have
a full time job, I would go for weeks 3 and
shoot this crazy show that I really had no
idea what it was even about.
Although they promised me I would not be tied
to a tree eating bugs so that was good to
know.
And then I'd come back and go back to my life
and it would all sort of be a flash in the
pan.
And 9 seasons and 2 spin offs and one really
shiny Emmy later, still eating but sometimes
I'm eating on desert islands actually.
But at least the foods been good.
>>Frank Bruni: Did you have even a moment's
hesitation or were you on board from the beginning?
>>Gail: Oh I had a lot of hesitation.
>>Frank Bruni: What were your reservations?
>>Gail: A couple, you know I have this, Tom
and I joke a lot about it now.
There was a moment the first day, so I get
to San Francisco, and I'm alone and Bravo
and Food & Wine are still sorting out the
contract.
So because it hasnít been signed no one from
Bravo is talking to me.
And I'm sort of alone in San Francisco sitting
at the bar at Delfina Pizzeria, really delicious,
I'm thinking you know what did I get myself
into?
I'm kind of alone here for 3 weeks of my life
and my husband who- I wasnít actually married
to him, the person who became my husband I'm
calling like at night crying sad and lonely,
not sure how this was gonna go.
And I got to set that first day and I sat
beside Tom, who I had met many years before
when I worked for Jeffrey Steingarten and
actually I was very good friends with Tom's
ex-assistant, so we sort of had a familiarity
about each other.
Tom had worked with Food & Wine all the time,
so we knew each other vaguely but not well.
I remember looking at him and thinking what
have we done?
What is this?
And I think both of our fears were- I wasnít
so worried that the show would fail, because,
it didn't bother me so much if strangers sort
of in you know, some other state somewhere
and watched the show and didn't like it and
said bad things and then it went off the air.
Our other, my biggest fear was that my friends
and my peers in the food industry would laugh
at us.
That it wouldnít be taken seriously.
That it would be you know that we would be
selling out, so to speak.
That the food would be sort of a joke and
that the chefs that they'd chosen would would
not be taken seriously and that I would embarrass
Food & Wine and of course myself and I'd never
work in this town again.
And we got, I donít know, a cross between
lucky and really great TV making I guess.
Our producers had the same reservations we
had and luckily really wanted to make the
same show from the start that Tom and I wanted
to make.
We wanted it to be about the chefs, not about
us.
We wanted it to be about the food.
We wanted the food to be served hot.
We wanted it to be true and to feel authentic
to what it's really like to cook in a kitchen.
Granted I understand that chefs are not cooking
for vending machines very often, but that
the lessons they were learning and that feeling
of sort of, the pressure and the sense of
urgency in a kitchen and the skill and craft
of what these young chefs do every day would
be, would be authenticated.
And I think more or less, that's what we've
loved about the show.
>>Frank Bruni: Now that first season, since
Top Chef was new, it couldn't have been as
powerful as a magnet for young chefs that
couldn't have been as-
>>Gail Simmons: No.
>>Frank Bruni: How does the food that first
season stack up against the food in subsequent
seasons?
>>Gail Simmons: Sure.
>>Frank Bruni: When you presumably had more
people knocking on the door.
>>Gail Simmons: Yeah, that's a great question.
You know, I still to this day don't know how
they cast for the first season.
How they actually got, lured people in because
there was no precedent.
There were no other shows there was no season
before it to give it any sort of you know,
precedent of what to expect or why chefs should
do it.
And that first season, it's amazing to look
back, we've certainly changed a lot of the
show's format that way.
That first season there was a much greater
mix of chefs because we didnít know what
our audience would want.
There were, there was a girl who was in culinary
school, that would never happen today.
There was a girl who was a very accomplished
home cook who taught cooking, she was a cooking
teacher but in the very home sense, out of
her home.
That would never happen today.
And not that they weren't great but after
that first season we learned that our audience
really wants this to be about professional
chefs.
Chefs who are running restaurants at the highest
level around the country.
And now that's the kind of chef that we have
you know, across the board.
At this point, season nine, all of the chefs
in the show run restaurants, they're line
cooks, they're sous-chef at the- and a sous-chef
is the second in command by the way.
People think a sous-chef might be all the
little people running under them.
The sous-chef is the chef who is the second
in command at a restaurant, so very- you have
to work your way up to be a sous-chef or a
chef, a chef de cuisine an executive chef.
And running really some of the greatest restaurants
around the country so we've certainly upped
the ante.
And that said, that first season there was
some awesome talent, too.
I mean Harold Dieterle won that firs season
and he now two, soon to be three restaurants
in New York.
Very well reviewed by the New York Times.
Did you ever review his restaurant?
>>Frank Bruni: His first one, yes.
>>Gail Simmons: His first one.
You know he's done really really well, he
has two restaurants that are taken very seriously
and he does an amazing job.
You know several of the other, the chefs on
that first season have gone on to do great
things and are still really going strong.
It's interesting how it's become a vehicle
for them and how at last count, I can't even
remember, how many chefs on our show, not
just winners but have you know, gone on to
really run and earn successful award winning
restaurants.
So we're really proud how that sort of evolved.
>>Frank Bruni: Are there other particular
chef, you call them cheftestants right?
>>Gail Simmons: Yeah yeah I didnít really
ñ thatís a Bravo word.
[audience laughter]
>>Gail Simmons: Not in the dictionary.
>>Frank Bruni: Oxford hasn't picked it up
yet?
No?
Are there cheftestants whose post-script to
Top Chef, their post-scripts have surprised
you especially either-
>>Gail Simmons: Yes.
>>Frank Bruni: -either because they've done
much better or because they faded and you
thought this was-
>>Gail Simmons: Right
>>Frank Bruni: - going to be an amazing spring
board for them?
>>Gail Simmons: Both certainly.
There have been, what's interesting is that
for a while it was hard to tell if this show
was going to be taken, I mean as much as the
industry really embraced it as a follow up
to the other question about my fears, I have
to say we've been really blessed that the
industry really has loved it.
We've had such incredible talent chefs, guest
judges on the show and beyond you know, the
entertainment world has embraced it.
There was a seven page article in the Hollywood
Reporter last week about Top Chef, so it's
kind of had this amazing crossover appeal
and really great chefs have embraced it, you
know contestants have just gotten better and
better.
But we always, we get blamed when the chefs
didnít do well, afterwards that it's our
fault.
But actually we always say to the chefs we
give this opportunity, it's what you make
of it.
You can act however you want afterwards and
hopefully you'll take it and run with it and
do a great job.
And many have.
You know, Michael Voltaggio who was the winner
of Top Chef 6 just opened a very serious restaurant
in Los Angeles called Ink that you know, we're
all really excited, about Stephanie Izard
in Chicago opened a restaurant called the
Girl & the Goat which for me was sort of an
amazing moment because she was awarded an
award last year by Food & Wine magazine.
We give this award the best new chef every
year, we honor the 10 sort of strongest up
and coming chefs around the country who we
think will be the country's next generation
of top talent.
So I always have sat in the middle there because
I'm on Top Chef but Food & Wine does this
best new chef thing and they never crossed
and Stephanie won that award last year.
So that was real big deal for me personally,
it felt really great to see that our Top Chefs
really could be at that level.
You know there's chefs like Fabio Viviani
who was on our fifth season who's you know,
his restaurants have gotten kind of lukewarm
reviews but he's got them but he's also doing
like Domino's pizza ads.
And I'm not saying that in a disappointed
way, it's unbelievable like you know, he's
that main stream in America that he's really
crossed over to have that much success, that's
a big deal that's a huge endorsement.
You know everyone has to make their own decisions
and do what works for them and he has this
amazing personality and he knows thatís his
strength and he's worked it and you know,
he's done really well with it too.
>>Frank Bruni: You make clear in the book,
and I think it's clear from watching Top Chef
that you judges are pretty firmly segregated
from the contestants.
>>Gail Simmons: Yes.
>>Frank Bruni: -the cheftestants-
>>Gail Simmons: Yes.
>>Frank Bruni: For the period you're judging
them.
Are you allowed to become friendly with them
afterwards?
Are some-
>>Gail Simmons: Afterwards.
Sure.
>>Frank Bruni: Are some of them good friends
of yours today?
>>Gail Simmons: Absolutely.
>>Frank Bruni: Which ones and how did it happen?
>>Gail Simmons: You know we really do keep
separate from them.
When you see the whole show put together,
as a viewer you see the kitchen and the action
cooking.
You see them in their interviews, you see
them in the house.
And then you see them with us at the judges
table or at the challenges.
We don't see any of that except where we are.
Like when you see us physically at the challenge
at the judges table, that's the only time
we the chefs.
So we donít know any of that stuff that goes
on.
We donít get to know them at all.
We donít know who's mean and who's a villain
and who's the one getting bullied or who's
the one who hates us.
We donít know any of that and it actually
doesn't matter, it's what keeps us on the
straight and narrow, that we just judge about
the food.
When the show ends and we wait until the show
has aired completely, we donít have any contact
with them at all, we could certainly you know,
get to know them a little more.
And we start seeing them, you know the food
community is really small, we go to events
and they're there.
And you know Bravo keeps us all in this tight
little oddball family.
But there aren't many that I become good friends
with.
I mean certainly Harold Dieterle, you know
he was our number one guinea pig.
And he has been so supportive and great and
has become a really good friend.
You know the Voltaggio brothers I love; I
think they're just unbelievable cooks and
really great guys.
Stephanie Izard.
Spike Mendelsohn who was on season 5 originally
and then was on All Star with us as well.
He has great restaurants in DC.
He's done so well and I love when I get to
hang out with him.
Let me think.
Oh Carla Hall, she has done so well.
I mean she was an example, she was on season
five with us.
She was the hooty hoo girl, does anyone know
what I'm talking about?
She was on season five and we all underestimated
her because she was sort of quiet and she
worked as a caterer, she wasn't as macho as
all the people who we thought had really you
know strong stronger more aggressive personalities.
She snuck up and made it to the finals to
the finale in her season and again in the
All Star season.
She is such a force and she has the most amazing
energy to her.
I mean just being in a room with her makes
you smile.
She's so much fun and now she's on the Chew
so I get to hang out with her a lot and she's
just an amazing woman.
I'm really proud of her.
>>Frank Bruni: You mentioned the Chew, what
do you watch on TV?
I mean do you, you said you didnít watch
reality before Top Chef.
>>Gail Simmons: I donít, still I donít watch
a lot of food shows.
I donít know if, you know there's certainly
some I watch.
Like you know, on the Food Network I love
watching Alton Brown.
I certainly watch Top Chef, cause I'm you
know, I have a mandate I gotta write a blog,
I need to know what happens.
Often I know, I was there but you donít know
all the other stuff so I have to watch that
stuff to learn.
What other shows do I watch?
I watch Anthony Bourdain totally.
I mean a lot a food travel channel stuff.
Andrew Zimmerman is a good friend, he has
Bizarre Foods.
And I think his show just gets better every
season, so I watch him a lot.
And then I watch a lot of you know, non-reality
travel food stuff.
I watch a lot of Friday Night Lights on Netflix,
right now season four.
It's bad, I am decimated by what's going on
with Coach Taylor, but we're getting there.
It's gonna get better, I can see bright days
ahead.
>>Frank Bruni: You mentioned travel just now.
You mention it frequently in the book, where
have you had the best food in the world and
where do you most long to go back to?
>>Gail Simmons: Where-
>>Frank Bruni: To eat?
>>Gail Simmons: - that's like the million
dollar question, Frank as you know.
I mean I think actually to just preface it,
I think kinda the best thing about Top Chef,
besides how much I love the contestants is
that really we travel for the show so much.
You know we do every season in a new city
and then the finale of that season in another
place as well.
So not only do I get to travel to a lot of
cities that I've never spent time before.
But we're there for you know about five or
six weeks now every time.
So I get to actually really spend a lot of
time in cities I never spent a lot of time
in before.
I mean even Chicago, until we shot there.
>>Frank Bruni: Even though you grew up in
Toronto?
>>Gail Simmons: Yeah, it's amazing because
they're pretty similar, they're very close
but I just never had the occasion to go.
I mean of all cities in the States I think
right now, Chicago, the food of Chicago the
chefs of Chicago there's a energy there that
I'm really amazed by and impressed with every
time I'm there now.
New Orleans is another kinda US city that
blows me away, food culturally.
On a greater kind of world level, we got to
go to Singapore two seasons ago for our finale.
I took a little detour and went to Indonesia
and that was pretty exciting from a food prospective.
But Singapore itself, Singapore's sort of
a bizarre place I found.
Because culturally it's such a modern city,
you donít see a lot of the history.
They sort of built sky scrapers to cover up
a lot of the history of that part of the world.
The food and the multicultural sort of like
mix has created this extraordinary, very unique
place to eat and the food culture in Singapore
is kind of unlike anything I've ever had.
From the street stalls I mean you literally
everyone, from high powered executive to you
know any level, you eat on the street.
It has the strongest best street food I've
ever had.
And then it has kind of you know, some of
the best restaurants in the world, all in
one.
You know I could go to Paris forever, I mean
who couldn't eat tarts in Paris for the rest
of their life?
Where else have I really been excited by eating?
>>Frank Bruni: What about here in New York?
Where do-
>>Gail Simmons: Yeah.
>>Frank Bruni: -find yourself going most often?
>>Gail Simmons: Oh my God.
You know I eat so much out in New York for
my job, to sort of keep up with things and
it's hard to sort of go back to the same place
twice but then there's, there are I mean right
now there's a lot of restaurants I'm really
excited about in New York.
I'm excited about new, sort of semi new I
think people who do sort of really interesting
things.
Restaurants like Aldea right on 17th St here,
George Mendez is a young chef who is Portuguese
and he's, there aren't a lot of really high
end sort of Portuguese restaurants right now,
I really can't think of that many at all in
New York.
I think that he-- people think that Portuguese
food is just kind of like Spanish food and
it's not, it's really interesting and I think
he just does a beautiful job.
I'm excited about kind of a lot of local small
places.
I'm excited about Parm, in Nolita, Terrizzi's,
those guys.
I actually wrote, the great thing about working
for Daniel Boulud was that he has a pretty
big empire of restaurants and when I was working
there, you know he has a lot of young people
working for him, a lot of young chefs.
Because it's a young persons job in a lot
of ways and so, I worked, when I worked with
Daniel in kind of 2002, 3, 4, we had this
kind of crew of young people that worked for
him.
Young chefs in front of the house and me in
marketing, special event people.
And we all really stuck together and became
really good friends and now we've all gone
out and done all different things.
So there's this sort of weird amazing octopus
arms that Daniel has of the next generation
of people who are doing really great things.
and Rich from Terrizzi's is one of them.
Andrew Carmellini is another, Andrew was Daniel's
chef de cuisine at CafÈ Boulud for I dunno
8 years or something.
And now he has Locanda Verde and The Dutch
and I think he's just doing such a great job.
And he's sort of you know, in his own way
a mentor of mine.
I'm really excited about how well he's done.
I dunno, I feel like there's getting to be
really good barbeque in New York which excites
me.
I spent the summer in Texas, so I got to eat
a lot of barbeque.
I like that New York is getting better at
it.
>>Frank Bruni: When you said earlier live
television is hard, what do you think those
of us who are just watching it but donít
do it, what donít we appreciate?
What's the peculiar skill that's difficult
and hard there?
>>Gail Simmons: You know a couple things one
timing, I mean when you're doing live television,
I mean obviously Top Chef isn't live.
We did one live finale on Top Chef, for season
three.
And it was sort of an experiment and it was
way harder than what we do every day.
I mean when we film Top Chef you know we can
sit and talk for 7 hours and it gets edited
down to 15 minutes.
Live television in itself, like I just did
the Today Show this morning and timing is
such a crazy factor, in live television.
Things have to move so quickly and you have
no sense of how that timing works.
So that always is very nerve wracking.
Combined with the way we speak umm, there
it is I just said umm.
When I did media training the one thing that
they taught me about more than anything else
was learning to listen to yourself speak.
We use a lot of words in every day conversation
that on live television just don't work out
very well.
They donít mean anything to your audience.
Words like delicious and amazing.
Words that are kind of descriptive words but
donít really tell you anything about the
food.
I can tell you something that, I can tell
you that something is delicious I know that
you know that that means that I liked it but,
what does that tell you about what it tasted
like?
Not much.
Was it gooey?
Was it chocolately?
Was it rich?
Was it light?
Was it fright?
Was it bright?
Was it fresh?
Was it acidic?
Was it spicy?
Delicious tells me nothing.
So it's about eliminating a lot of those words
from your vocabulary.
When you have two and a half minutes to get
through three recipes on television that was
kind of the biggest learning curve, for me
for sure.
>>Frank Bruni: You also make the point in
the book that eating is so subjective, that
taste is subjective ñ
>>Gail Simmons: Yes.
>>Frank Bruni: Given that, how can one come
to conclusions on a show like Top Chef?
Is it just the aggregate of everybody's subjectivity
or?
>>Gail Simmons: You know it, a little bit
but it's certainly the question I get asked
a lot.
How do you, first of all how do you judge?
Like who the hell are you to judge?
That's the first question.
But, which I talk about a lot in the book.
But even more so how does one esoterically,
how do you judge food when food is so much
about personal taste?
I would argue that judging food on a macro
level isnít about personal taste, not at
all.
But I would say only about 20% of the judging
experience is about personal taste, for me.
Eighty percent of it is science, cooking is
chemistry more than anything else.
Yes, there are certain foods that I donít
like and a lot of food that I love, you know
a lot of flavors that I love.
But that is not how I personally have learned
to judge food.
Because I went to culinary school and I learned
science of cooking, not that everyone has
to go to culinary school, you really just
have to eat a lot and pay attention to what
you're eating.
But you know, you learn to understand when
someone says that you're supposed to cook
a steak medium rare, the chef suggests you
cook it, you eat it medium rare.
That doesnít mean you have to like medium
rare but there's a reason that a certain cut
of meat a strip loin for example, a New York
strip should be cooked to medium rare because
that cut of meat, scientifically that is the
best way to cook it to that exact temperature
and there is a degree of doneness that will
bring out that best flavor and texture qualities
of that piece of meat.
And knife skills come into play.
When you have great knife skills and you cut
food properly, when you cut it, let's say
you're cutting a bunch of carrots to cook
in your dish.
You want to cut your carrots consistently
to the exact same size so that every piece
is the same so that they'll cook at a consistent
level.
So that they're all cooked to the same doneness,
cause if one piece is really big and one piece
is really small, the small piece is going
to cook more than the big, you know quicker
than the big piece and then when you eat it
one piece will be crunchy and one piece will
be soft or overcooked.
So it's really science it's about the reaction
of protein and heat or sugar and heat, caramelization.
So when you learn how to think about how food
should be cooked to its optimum levels, you
look at a plate a little bit differently and
it becomes actually very objective.
I'm kind of rambling I'm probably not making
much sense anymore.
Then obviously the flavor combination thing
comes into effect.
Do I like this?
You know, some of it is about does it taste
good together?
But a lot of it also is about understanding
why flavors taste good together.
There needs to be balance there needs to be
harmony.
When you eat a piece of food, why does it
taste good?
Because it has richness and it has a bit of
acid that cuts the richness or it has you
know, an umami flavor a saltiness a sweetness,
all those tastes buds are there for a reason
and you want balance and that's what makes
food appealing.
So it's sort of learning that about food that
makes me understand how to judge it a little
better.
>>Frank Bruni: I want to ask you one more
question but then I also want to point out
that there are microphones there and there
and since there are a lot of people here weíll
give them a chance to-
>>Gail Simmons: Yeah.
>>Frank Bruni: -ask you whatever they want.
>>Gail Simmons: Sure.
>>Frank Bruni: So, anyone who's got a question,
think about it and maybe get to a microphone.
Top Chef Desserts-
>>Gail Simmons: Yes.
>>Frank Bruni: How does the production the
putting together of that differ ñ I think
of dessert making-
>>Gail Simmons: Right.
>>Frank Bruni: -as involving a lot more equipment,
often it can be much more technical it can
be much- there a much more theatrical-
>>Gail Simmons: Yes.
>>Frank Bruni: -element to it.
Is it a harder show to pull off?
What kind of tweaks did you have to make to
have that work?
>>Gail Simmons: I think Top Chef Desserts
is a harder show to pull off.
I mean they're on different, they're obviously
slightly different.
When we first started shooting Top Chef Just
Desserts, which we've now done two seasons,
it was a spin-off of the original, but for
pastry.
I think we all thought that it would just
be Top Chef but with a few more ovens and
a lot more sugar.
But we realized really quickly was that baking
pastry, the making of pastry at the professional
level, is actually a totally different science.
Much more intricate, much more complex in
that when you make a cake, there's no tasting
as you go, there's no throwing in a little
of this and a little bit of that.
There's also bake time required and then once
it's baked it needs to be cooled and iced
and sliced and plated and so the whole process
of baking desserts and making desserts is
really really different.
So we had to account for that which we sort
of thought about later in the process which
made for some really interesting challenges.
But it really is and the personality of a
pastry chef is really different because of
it.
Their job is much more scientific to the microgram.
You know when make a recipe, when you're making
if you know how to make a stew you can make
50 stews and you could throw a little of your
leftover this and a little bit of onion and
then you could put in some tomatoes or if
you want you can leave out the tomatoes, put
in some carrots.
It doesn't work like that when you cook a
recipe, when you making that cake you need
an exact ratio of flour to sugar to egg or
to fat.
You know, the gluten content needs to be in
exact balance with the baking powder and the
baking soda so that it will rise properly.
And all of this, if it's out of whack by even
a gram or so will ruin the process.
So in my experience, pastry chefs are a lot
more meticulous, a lot more exacting which
allows us to do a lot too.
Because I also think that desserts are a lot
more beautiful, visually, for our audience.
And the work you can do with chocolate and
sugar is sort of extraordinary if you really
have chefs at that level.
So it was an exciting show to make but a huge
learning curve for me, for sure.
Hi.
>>Male Audience Member #1: Hi, how are you
doing?
Thanks for coming.
>>Gail Simmons: Thank you.
>>Male Audience Member #1: I'd say that there's
a lot of consensus at the Top Chef judges
table probably driven by that 80% of objectivity
you were talking about.
>>Gail Simmons: Right.
>>Male Audience Member #1: Well what do you
think is your sort of unique perspective that
you bring when you're talking about you know
what you think is the best or what you think
is the worst compared to Tom or Padma?
>>Gail Simmons: That's a great question.
There is and there isn't.
Yes there mostly is consensus because I do
think we're all sort of now looking for similar
things but not always.
They love when we fight; it's my producers'
favorite thing in the world.
And it definitely happens.
I do think though that we all have taken on
different roles and that also is why it works.
Because we're looking for different things
and we bring to the table different things.
I like to think that our roles are sort of
like this: so Tom is the chef of the kitchen,
when he does that walk through in the kitchen,
it's as if he's the chef walking through his
own line right before a really busy service
and he's looking at the cooks and making sure
they're ready and testing them.
Are you ready?
Did you think of this?
Are you sure you want to do that?
Then he comes out and tastes the food, and
when he tastes it in his mind, and this is
my opinion of him, I havenít asked him if
this is right or not, but you know he tastes
the food and he thinks "Is this food cooked
to the quality of what I would want in my
kitchen?
If I, if someone, if a cook in my restaurant
cooked this would I praise them or would I
make them wash dishes or fire them?"
He comes with a very technical a very specific
sort of outlook about, from a very sort of
cheffy stand point.
He's there to be the chef of the kitchen and
to bring to our table his standards.
Obviously he's very successful with the extraordinary
empire of restaurants that he's been cooking,
he's been cooking for 25 years.
At the time, this is an aside, but the time
that he got his first 3 star review in the
New York Times he was like the youngest chef
I think in history to do so.
He was like 26 or 27 years old at Mondrian,
I feel like I know his bio way too well.
We spend a lot of time together.
So that's kind of his perspective.
My perspective I always say, I 'm sort of
the, I'm the food critic.
I am coming to the restaurant as an educated
diner.
I'm the restaurant reviewer for that matter.
I have training, I do it for a living, it's
my profession.
I've been doing it for 15 years.
And if I were to eat this meal, how would
I rate it if I was writing a review or if
I was recommending it in Food & Wine magazine?
Would I recommend it?
Would I tell everyone at home about it?
Did I have a great experience?
Because if I did I want to write about it
and I want to praise it.
If I didn't, I'm never going back to the restaurant
and I'm gonna tell people I know that they
shouldnít go either.
And that's also why every meal counts, by
the way.
Thatís why we can't ever judge people on
how good they did cumulatively.
It needs to be based on that exact dish.
And that dish only, every challenge.
Because you can't say well they were really
good yesterday but today they're not so good
but they were great yesterday so we'll let
them go because if you go to a restaurant
and you have a bad meal, you donít care if
the chef's wife left him the next day or that
they woke up on the wrong side of the bed,
you donít know what goes on in the kitchen
and you donít care.
You just want your dish to be great.
So that's how I think of the food.
Padma's role I think is a number of things.
A: she's the hostess, she greats you, she
draws you in makes you comfortable, gets you
talking as the diner and you know as the chef.
Making sure that you have what you need to
give us the best experience you can.
She's also sort of the enthusiastic diner,
she doesnít have a professional training
but she loves to eat.
She's eaten a lot all over the world.
And yes, she eats despite what people might
think.
She does have that body, but I've also seen
her pack it in.
[audience laughter]
>>Gail Simmons: And you know, and so she's
sort of like, you know, the viewer.
She's the person who wants to eat great food,
is looking for a great experience.
And if she's gonna spend her money on a great
meal, was this meal worth it?
My hard earned dollars as just the every person
who wants to go out and eat a great dinner.
So that ñ
>>Male Audience Member #1: Yes.
>>Gail Simmons: - thatís sort how I think
of us.
>>Male Audience Member #1: What's the last
big fight you guys had?
>>Gail Simmons: Oh this finale, which hasnít
aired yet.
We just shot it in Vancouver in January which
was a cruel joke because p.s. we also shot
the season in Texas in July.
So someone is after us.
It was the hottest summer on record in 60
years in Texas and it was like one of the
coldest days ever in Vancouver when we shot
it was like I think 18 degrees?
So yeah, we argued a lot.
I mean I think we finished shooting the finale,
the final final episode at 5 in the morning.
Cause we just couldn't agree at all, which
also often happens actually.
It's not rare that we have finished our finale
at 5, 6, 7 o'clock in the morning.
Weíve seen the sunrise I would say, on, of
the 9 finales we've shot, I would say on 5
of 9 of them we have seen the birds chirp
because we, you know, we wanna make sure we've
made the right decision.
Hi.
>>Female Audience Member #1: Hi.
How do you think the rise of Top Chef and
other contemporary reality food in television
has affected food writing?
>>Gail Simmons: You know, it's a tricky question
and I do address this a bit in the book, as
I said when I first wanted to be a food writer,
when I first graduated school and wanted to
work in food media, food media was so so different
than it is now.
There weren't blogs, there weren't like, there
weren't even that many food websites at least
that we knew, it was just all starting.
It was really in its infancy, there certainly
wasn't Twitter, there wasn't Facebook, there
wasn't Google+, I'm a fan of Google+ I'm on
Google+.
[audience laughter]
>>Gail Simmons: Thank you Zagat.
But I you know, so I think that it all has
been one big conversation and I think food
reality competitions have been a big part
of that.
I'd like to think as much as sometimes all
of the tweeting and blogging and can sometimes
be distracting and cruel and gossipy, you
know, I think that people don't realize how
much power they wield when they write disparaging
things.
I do think that all of it together, the food
shows and social media have created a climate
that has made us all a lot smarter.
A lot more educated.
There's no greater compliment for me when
people come up to me, strangers on the street
and tell me that they watch Top Chef with
their children and then they help, their children
help them cook dinner.
Or when they go out to eat and they now read
the menu differently and last night they went
to a restaurant and they tried sweet breads
for the first time because they'd seen us
cook it on the show.
I think a truck is about to drive through
the stage, just let me know.
[audience laughter]
>>Gail Simmons: But you know, I think that
we, I think that Top Chef certainly and all
of the kinda food television have, have changed
the conversation, have enhanced the dialogue
that we can all now have.
It's not just a monologue where as it used
to be just restaurant critics you know, who
would write a review and it's all anonymous,
and that's still very important and I donít
think that their power has changed and their
importance have changed, but I definitely
think that now it's become, because of Top
Chef and because of social media it's all
become a greater conversation that everyone
can participate in.
And have knowledge of a little more.
I think it's all good, is the end result.
>>Female Audience Member #2: Hi.
>>Gail Simmons: Hi.
>>Female Audience Member #2: So with all your
years of experience and writing and eating,
I'm sure you're probably very adventuresome
in your eating.
Is there anything that you absolutely wouldnít
eat or have had a hard time stomaching?
>>Gail Simmons: There is nothing I wouldn't
eat to date but that could change, so who
knows.
There's nothing I won't try, there's nothing
I won't taste.
I donít like to eat for sport, you know I
donít like to eat just for the sake of eating,
you know, I dunno like some random thing just
for the sake of doing it?
But if it's cooked for me with love and attention
and for a purpose, there's nothing I won't
try.
There are certainly things I donít like to
eat, that I'd prefer not to like, I mean there's
no denying there's a level of subjectivity
to how we all, right?
There are certainly things I'd prefer to eat.
Some days I crave hamburgers, some days you
know, I'd prefer not to eat whatever it is,
green pepper.
But and there are certainly things that, everyone
I think all of us have a little bit of sort
of irrational food likes and dislikes, personal
preferences.
So I certainly have a few of those.
I have this weird thing about black beans
and it's sort of this drawn out, totally irrational
story.
And I admit that it's irrational, no offense
to black beans and the Black Bean Association
of America.
It's just a personal aversion, I had a bad
experience, I donít want to eat black beans.
That said, if black beans are served to me
on the show or if I'm at someone's house and
they make something with black beans I will
always always taste it.
And sometimes even like it, I'll just never
make it for myself.
>>Male Audience Member #2: Hi, I once had
to judge a sort of Top Chef like cooking competition
here at Google.
>>Gail Simmons: Right.
I've judged a Google like Top Chef-
>>Male Audience Member #2: Yeah.
>>Gail Simmons: -Christmas charity cooking
thing.
>>Male Audience Member #2: That was a much
bigger deal than what I-
>>Gail Simmons: So still, we're doing the
same thing.
>>Male Audience Member #2: Yeah.
But it is surprisingly difficult.
Like I guess coming into it I like I guess
I didnít really understand the skill that's
actually involved-
>>Gail Simmons: Right.
>>Male Audience Member #2: - in, because you're
taking, you're tasting a lot of dishes and
they're all pretty good.
>>Gail Simmons: Yes.
>>Male Audience Member #2: Right?
>>Gail Simmons: Yes.
That's exactly-
>>Male Audience Member #2: But they all taste
like but-
>>Gail Simmons: A similar-
>>Male Audience Member #2: It's not like they're
the same dishes, right?
>>Gail Simmons: Right.
>>Male Audience Member #2: It's like all the
same dishes, you might be able to tell one's
better than the other.
But when they're different dishes, it's really
hard to kind of decide which one you, is actually
better.
What are your tips on kind of doing that sort
of thing?
>>Gail Simmons: You know we talk about this
a lot of the show specifically because what
we think the audience can't see and people
get mad at us when we criticize little, little
mistakes that people made.
But what they donít understand is that when
you have 10 dishes and they're all good, how
do you differentiate between them?
Because also at this level on the show specifically,
they're all professional chefs, it's mostly
all good.
There were days, early days, when the food
was really bad on Top Chef.
I'm trying to think of, Frank judged with
us once and I'm trying to remember how the
food was that time.
Do you remember if it was good?
>>Frank Bruni: Oh yeah there was some really
bad food.
>>Gail Simmons: It happens.
[audience laughter]
>>Gail Simmons: It definitely happens.
But we're getting better and especially near
the end of a season and there's only 3 or
4 people left, they're the best people and
sometimes it's all really good.
Sometimes it's really obvious and there's
bad stuff, but more times than not it's good.
Or at least there's a few that are really
good and then you have to still pick a winner.
Or sometimes there's things that are all bad
and how do you pick a winner, which is the
greatest flaw?
And you know, how do you say which was worse?
That someone over cooked a piece of meat?
Or that someone forgot to put their sauce
on the plate?
And it really becomes like nit picking, taking
apart every dish and every component and figuring
out which elements were better, which were
worse and then looking at it as the whole
picture.
So we look at their knife skills we look at
you know, their intention is really important
too.
Because sometimes I'll eat something and I
won't think it's that great, but did it have
a purpose?
Maybe they did that for a reason and if they
did and that's how they wanted it to be thatís
why it's so important to get in front of them
at the judges table and ask them what their
intention was.
Did they listen to the challenge?
How well did they adhere to what they were
supposed to do and was that successful?
Would I want to pay for this dish if I were
at a restaurant?
And which one would I go back for again, I
try to close my eyes sometimes and think ok
if I walked away and two days from now, which
of these dishes would I want to eat again?
And so those are kind of all exercises we
have to do.
And sometimes it is really hard.
I mean that's a good thing when there's five
dishes that are all great, it actually means
that we were really successful, it just makes
our job harder but that's a really good problem
to have.
So it just takes, you know practice and talking
it over.
It's also really important, what I didnít
talk about before with the question about
our roles on the show.
It's also really important to have a lot of
different opinions.
Because then there's a lot more balance.
And often Tom or Padma or the guest judge
who is even more objective cause they've never
eaten these peoples food before, they have
a different take on it.
And sometimes they'll change my mind because
I'll think that I like it at first bite but
when we talk it over they'll explain to me
that they looked at it this way or I looked
at it another way.
It's helpful to have that conversation and
we really end up, that's why we're talking
till 7 am often.
>>Male Audience Member #2: That's fascinating,
thanks.
Is part of the, I've always kind of also wondered
whether some of the challenges are to make
it, some of the dishes worse?
I mean really?
>>Gail Simmons: you know, it's interesting,
I donít think to make it worse, it's certainly
to make it harder.
Especially now that people think oh these
challenges are getting more and more ridiculous,
but really if we wanted them to cook in a
quiet cool calm kitchen, exactly how they
cook every day in their own restaurants we
would just go eat in their own restaurants
and that would make for really boring television.
It needs, there needs to be a way to take
them all out of their comfort zones and put
them into situations they wouldnít necessarily
be in because we want to see how time and
again they can do that and still produce great
dishes, cause that to me is the sign of a
really talented craft, craftsmanship, crafting
of their food.
You know what I mean.
That if we gave them the same things or made
it really easy and put them in the circumstances
that they were used to, it wouldn't be a challenge.
So even though , yes it's crazy that we make
them ski and then shoot and then cook, we
want, you know cooking in a kitchen after
12 hours you cook differently than when you're
bright eyed and bushy tailed at the start
of the day.
So we wanted to exhaust them a bit, we want
to see their endurance, we want to see their
sense of urgency those are actually very real
skills you need to have in a kitchen.
So we need to make it hard, because we need
to separate you know, the best from the worst.
>>Female Presenter: And that's all we have
time for.
Thank you for coming.
>>Gail Simmons: Thank you so much.
Thank you guys.
[applause]
>>Frank Bruni: You are, are you signing books?
>>Gail Simmons: Yeah, sure.
>>Frank Bruni: Ok.
>>Gail Simmons: Absolutely.
