RICHARD: Do you remember that Weird Al song
Amish Paradise?
DOREEN: Weird Al?
RICHARD: Weird Al Yankovic
DOREEN: That's long before my time.
RICHARD: Ok it's before her time but it was
kind of a cool song.
Anyhow sometimes we understandably get mistaken
for being Amish.
Has that happened to you?
DOREEN: Oh yeah that's actually kind of a
trigger for me because when I was younger,
maybe more immature, I would react pretty
strongly to that.
But we do share the same spiritual tradition
- Anabaptism .
RICHARD: I'm glad you've come to peace with
the Amish question
Definitely the most striking thing about the
Amish aside from their dress and the reason
they're so fascinating to people is because
they refuse to adopt most technology.
DOREEN: Some of that fascination I have to
think is condescension.
You know, "Look at those uneducated backward
people.
Isn't it foolish not to make use of modern
conveniences."
RICHARD: But I think some of it is actually
admiring or maybe even envy.
A lot of folks are overwhelmed by the breakneck
pace of modern life (caused in large part
by "modern conveniences") and also by the
glut of often confusing information at our
fingertips and I can imagine many of them
looking at the way the Amish live and thinking,
"Wouldn't it be great to live so simply.
Just be off the grid like in olden times."
I know there's plenty of times I feel sick
of technology especially Twitter.
DOREEN: I
think actually both reactions are too simplistic.
People who thoughtlessly adopt new technologies
because they're sold on this idea that any
new inventions or improvement are going to
make their lives better often don't ask themselves
the question, "What am I losing by doing this?"
But then on the other hand rejecting technology
because it doesn't fit in with some nostalgic
vision of the past also seems wrong.
I'm thinking here of my mom's sister who recently
had a baby, Archer, who was born with a heart
defect.
A hundred years ago he would have died but
after an operation repairing the hole in his
heart - and think about it, an infant's heart
is the size of a walnut - he's thriving.
And that surgery was only possible through
massive advances in medical technology.
RICHARD: Yeah it's hard to argue with that.
But back to the Amish.
Amish suspicion of new technology is based
on legitimate concerns that anything that
changes the way they live might attack the
fabric of their faith community and lead them
astray.
The most obvious example being their use of
horse and buggy because cars, to their way
of thinking, by making travel easier, would
cause them to live further apart from one
another and cause their community to erode.
And actually when the Bruderhof began in the
1920s, cars were a new technology and it was
something the members at that time discussed
and use of cars was an issue of conscience
for them, because traffic deaths -- which
I guess really weren't a thing until that
point -- were killing thousands of people
every year and they questioned whether the
convenience of a car could be justified by
this.
Obviously we use cars today but since it's
a technology we're used to maybe we don't
think about the tradeoffs as much as we do,
both safety and environmental.
DOREEN: There's a great line in CS Lewis'
Surprised by Joy where he says the truest
and most horrible claim made for modern transport
is that it "annihilates space" because space
is among the most wonderful gifts we have.
Something to think about.
Anyway within Amish communities use of technology
is regulated through a series of rules or
Ordnungen that are updated as needed.
I think the approach we at the Bruderhof have
taken to technology has always been more dynamic
and the question is less about preserving
a particular way of life and more about how
a new technology helps or hinders human flourishing
and human relationships.
So there's a history of trying things and
then setting them aside or reducing the use
of them when you see what the effects are.
RICHARD: Just by way of example decades ago
- before the internet, probably thirty years
give or take - this robotic welder was installed
in the workshop where we manufacture equipment
for people with disabilities.
It was pretty cutting edge or so we thought
(course I was just a kid but we got a special
demonstration).
The idea behind getting this piece of equipment
was to eliminate or reduce a job that requires
a long training.
But after using it for a year or two it didn't
work out as planned and the guys running the
business got rid of and developed a rigorous
in-house welding training program which ended
up giving young folks an opportunity to learn
a valuable skill.
DOREEN: So we don't have hard and fast rules
about living without technology.
Instead we try to use technology in a considered
way.
Just by way of another example, the negative
aspects of social media - its effects on mental
health, sleep deprivation, reduced real-time
social interaction - are so well documented
and so obvious that most people on the Bruderhof
aren't active on social media.
But since we do live in the twenty-first century
and there are places where you need a social
media account for school or for work or for
connecting as an organization with other people
and groups we don't have a rule per se against
social media but we've all agreed to radically
limit what we use it for.
RICHARD: I know YouTube isn't really considered
social media but I just saw this insane figure
that all together people are watching one
billion hours of video on YouTube a day.
That's over one hundred and fourteen thousand
eight hundred years every single day.
DOREEN: Ok so we shouldn't contribute too
much more to that and wrap this video up.
So I think the most important thing to remember
is that technology - whether it's a labor
saving device, or a smart phone - is never
"just a tool" if by that you mean it's a neutral
thing.
RICHARD: Tools are never neutral because they
change the way you interact with the world.
DOREEN: Right and the change is mostly not
completely positive or completely negative.
The question is the net effect.
And it also depends on what we consider to
be "modern technology."
Remember, even a hammer was cutting edge at
one point.
So I don't think we'll ever be able to answer
the big philosophical questions, like "Does
technology make us more alone" or "Can you
live without technology?"
But we can adopt a mindful approach to what
makes our lives better.
Another way to think about it is to keep in
mind what it is that makes life good which
is person-to-person relationships and then
adopt or reject technology to the degree that
it improves or impairs those relationships.
RICHARD: And to the degree that it leaves
you time to connect with the real world and
for example raise a bunch of cows.
Word to the wise If you want to find true
peace just spend some time watching cows go
about their lives.
Very Amish of me I know.
DOREEN: I'll take your word for it.
