ok everybody we're gonna get started in
a minute
so I just wanted to welcome all of you
tonight to the Center for Jewish history
one week after our snowstorm so I'm
happy to see all of you who are able to
come this week i'm judy greenspan the
director of public programs and this is
the second program in our new series
very short introductions short talks on
big subjects can I see a show of hands
has anybody been in it was anybody here
for our first program oh wow this is
good no no no the first very short
introductions all right so if you were
here in January or if the name of the
series sounds familiar then I would
suspect you're already acquainted with
the very short introduction books
published by Oxford University Press how
many people here have already read a
very short introduction book okay so our
series is produced in partnership with
Oxford and includes four programs this
year each one featuring a talk by an
author of one of these slim informative
volumes in a moment Nancy Toth Oxford's
American editor of the vsi series will
say a few words about these short books
of which there are currently five
hundred and sixty and many more coming
you are holding number 217 and we're
very pleased that dr. Eric H climbed the
author of Biblical Archaeology a very
short introduction is here tonight along
with Kristin Romi the archaeology editor
and a writer for National Geographic
magazine dr. Kline brought years of
experience to the task of writing this
133 page book he's a professor of
classics and anthropology and the
current director of the Capitol
archaeological Institute at George
Washington University in Washington DC
he's been an active field archaeologist
for more than 30 seasons and is the
author or co-author of 18 books
including number 300
65 on your list the Trojan War a very
short introduction dr. Klein his
numerous credentials are more completely
listed in your program was also
unusually young when he discovered his
life's work when I was seven years old
he explains in his recent book three
stones make a wall my mother gave me a
book called the walls of Windy Troy it
was about Heinrich Schliemann did I
pronounce that right Sleeman and his
search for the ruins of ancient Troy
written just for children after reading
it I announced that I was going to be an
archaeologist that was the first of many
books about archaeology that Eric read
growing up and he says the stories of
finding lost cities in the jungle and
uncovering ancient civilizations were
mesmerizing in college I declared my
major in archaeology just as soon as I
could and when I graduated my mother
again gave me the book about Schliemann
that had started at all 14 years earlier
I still have it in my office at George
Washington University today Kristin Romi
was a little older than seven when she
too became intrigued with this
fascinating field as she tells it she
was a somewhat frustrated classics major
at Vassar when an archaeologist came
looking for volunteers to excavate a
case area in Israel
Kristin quite literally dove into the
field she got her diving certification
and worked in Harrods Harbor for two
excavation seasons before going on for a
graduate degree in underwater
archaeology I didn't know there was such
a thing I don't know if any of you do I
think that's unbelievable a fellow of
the Explorers Club she's worked
everywhere from Yucatan to Yemen and her
work at among the story she's written
for National Geographic was a recent
December cover story on the archaeology
of Jesus she covered the recently
discovered Isaiah seal and the only
Philistine cemetery yet discovered and
it was discovered in Ashkelon also in
Israel so finally a few words about
where we are tonight not unlike
an archaeological site the Center for
Jewish history is also a place to
unearth treasures from the past this
remarkable institution is a
world-renowned Center for scholarly
research and academic conferences a
destination for public programs concerts
exhibits and genealogy research and home
to five partner organizations the
American Jewish Historical Society the
American Sephardic Federation the Leo
Beck Institute Yeshiva University Museum
and the EVO Institute for Jewish
research together our five partners
possess the world's largest and most
comprehensive archive of the modern
Jewish experience outside of Israel this
includes just to give you an idea five
miles of archival materials in five
different lengths and languages and
covering 500 years of history we have
some 50,000 digitized photographs
500,000 books and thousands of artworks
ritual objects recordings and films our
librarians and archivists are available
in our reading room to help access these
materials and we urge you to come back
and dig through our resources now you
all have pencils and a note card so just
a word about that as the program is
going along please jot down any
questions that you will have for
christian kristen and eric and i will
collect these cards just before the Q&A
portion of the program afterwards i hope
you'll join us for a reception and a
book signing in the Great Hall and we
will hopefully see you there so Kristin
and Eric will begin in just a minute but
first Nancy Toth of Oxford University
Press thank you
[Applause]
thank you very much welcome back to
those of you who are here for the second
time and I hope you will forgive me for
repeating some information but for the
newcomers I just want to give you a
little background on the history of the
series and where head has come from and
where it is going the series began life
in the 1990s as a series of paperbacks
called past masters which was edited by
Sir Keith Thomas at the University of
Oxford and these were surveys of the
thought and writing of leading
philosophers political figures
scientists Aristotle Darwin people like
that and then in 1995 the UK office of
Oxford decided to rebrand the series as
the very short introductions which we
call the SIS and we began to expand the
title list to include concepts and
fields of knowledge as well as people we
now have three editors working on the
series acquiring new books one who does
only science and one UK and one us
editor acquiring everything else so this
is the perfect job for somebody like me
who grew up loving Curious George and
reading from one Encyclopedia article to
the other and a shiny new set of world
books so the child who grew up asking
why is the sky blue turned into the
curious adult who asks can somebody
please tell me what post-modernism is or
why are Mormons so interested in
genealogy so to plan the vsi series I
put on my Diderot hat and I tried to
think about how to organize all
knowledge into these nice little
intellectual packages vs eyes and of
course every time we think we have this
title list nailed somebody comes along
with another good idea so we welcome
suggestions from our readers for
our authors from our audience here I'm
happy to hear from you by email or any
other means we've gotten some great
ideas the Habsburg Empire apartheid we
have rejected a few in the past week we
got one for the walking stick and we
thought maybe that wasn't the best
choice
along with Olivia newton-john so we have
a separate folder for those but mostly
we go out and we Commission these vs is
from academics who have the right
combination of expertise literary Flair
and enthusiasm for their subject so I
get to think about who I would like to
have as my personal tutor on any
particular topic whether it's Zionism or
populism or the Trojan War or
ethnomusicology and can they do it in
thirty five thousand words so in the
case of Biblical Archaeology the choice
of author was quite easy my longtime
author Eric Klein a professor of
classics archeology and history at
George Washington University about 15
years ago
Amanda Pugh Donnie who is a professor of
history at Cal Poly Pomona in California
recruited Eric to write the volume on
ancient Egypt in our middle school
ancient history series which I was then
acquiring when I started work on that
series I was the prototypical tabula
rasa I had not studied ancient history
since the fourth grade which was a few
years earlier than that
so Eric and Amanda not only educated me
but got me truly fascinated by ancient
history and archaeology and so I was
really thrilled when Eric accepted my
invitation to write V sis both on
Biblical Archaeology and on the Trojan
War and Amanda took on the ancient Near
East so as I do with all vsi authors I
encouraged Eric not only to convey
information but to write the book in a
manner that tells the reader what
excites him about his field now there's
always a great deal of back-and-forth
dealing with peer review which sometimes
seems
endless and with various editorial
matters and at one point Eric was a
little impatient with me
I hadn't gotten my comments back and I
wrote him back and I said Eric if you
were a puppy I would say down boy but
you're not so please wait until the
bible's editor and I have had a chance
to go over the manuscript carefully and
Eric wrote back and he said okay I'll
chill woof however I can't wait to get
back into the field and crawl into my
little sandpit blissfully excavating
while ignoring the outside world for a
few weeks see I do keep these things in
the archives so that enthusiasm clearly
comes through in his book and it will
surely come through tonight as he talks
with Kristen about this fascinating
topic of Biblical Archaeology so here is
the very erudite Eric Kline for a very
short introduction to a very deep
subject
[Applause]
okay well Thank You Nancy and thank you
everyone for coming this evening I have
to tell you that I was lucky enough that
Eric and I took the train up from DC
this afternoon and we talked non-stop
and one of the things we were talking
about was with this book you said it was
one of the shortest books you've ever
written and one of the most difficult do
you want to explain to us why that was
sure yes before I start though thank you
everyone for inviting me thank you Judy
Thank You Nancy Thank You Kristin for
agreeing to be up here thank you all for
coming out especially since we're
supposed to be last week and now we're
this week so anyway it's wonderful to
actually be here and to talk about this
but one thing that Nancy did not mention
when I wrote this book for her she
actually made me write at three times so
it may be the shortest one I've ever
written and it comes in at 35,000 words
not one more I wrote it three times so
that's what a hundred and well over a
hundred thousand yes right so I wrote
the first one and she I sent it to her
and waited and she got the comments back
and she said well it's okay but redo it
and well while you're at it take out the
f-word and I said what there's no f-word
in there she said it's all over the
place and I'm like no it's not she said
our f-word is famous take out famous so
I wrote it again without the word famous
and apparently without the word very
which I had him 126 times in the first
edition so I don't think you'll find
many varies in there I've sent back the
second one and she sent it back and said
you're getting there
one more time and so I wrote that one
three times so I but I think I learned I
mean ANSI is one of the best editors
I've ever had because when I did the
Trojan War she took the very first one
and there's no famous and that one at
all yes so yes it was very very short
and very difficult and there was I can't
remember who said it once but somebody
said I would have written less but I
didn't have enough time so same sort of
thing trying to cram an entire field
like biblical archaeology into thirty
five thousand words is no easy task and
I know in fact I can see some of you in
the audience who are biblical
archaeologist and I sure we've dug
together some of you and we've studied
in the classroom some of you you know
this is a huge topic so what do you pick
what do you I mean I wanted to do the
top ten sites the top ten finds the top
and that was when Nancy said no we don't
do top ten so we decided to split this
into a history of the field and then how
does an impact on the Hebrew Bible and
the New Testament that was tough I think
that really goes to show the complexity
of this specialty you know I cover
archaeology around the world and nothing
is as difficult in so many ways as
biblical archaeology just even the term
biblical archaeology what is biblical
archaeology and what is the purpose and
the motivation of biblical archaeology
and I think maybe we could start there
what is it and what it what are we
trying to get out of it okay so it's a
good place to start cuz that's what I
start the book with right you have to
have a definition before you get started
and it's actually a matter of defining
what biblical archaeology is and
actually what it is not because we're
not out to prove the Bible we're not out
to disprove the Bible we're basically
doing archaeology it just happens to be
in the countries that are the lands of
the Bible and that are from those time
periods so you know we could be digging
in Mycenaean Greece and people would you
know care but they wouldn't care like
they do where there's a religious text
involved so it's it's a tough call but
we're not out to try and disprove
Abraham or the exodus or anything like
that even though that's what we are
asked all the time
right especially with Passover coming up
for example right we've got the whole
question of the exodus did it actually
happen and that's where when I go to
Seder on Friday and Saturday night I
will come home with my shins black and
blue
I'm not kidding they will be black and
blue why you asked because my wife will
have been kicking me under the table the
whole time
just like don't say it didn't happen but
it might not have happened just like
don't say that I'm like well Israel
Finkelstein tells his family afterward
it might not have happened but he
celebrates it she's like so do that with
us too please just keep your mouth shut
for Friday and Saturday night I'm like
all right all right
right so trying to prove things you know
we're not out to prove the Exodus but
that's what we're always asked so
especially when we're talking about
Biblical Archaeology like the time
periods that were beginning and you're
looking at the origins in a sense of who
are these people who are coming in and
eventually creating this you know
collection of stories and texts and
historical accounts that eventually
become the book and we've got big
players like David and Solomon Moses
would go bruh ham I mean you name it
we've got them right except we don't
that's the problem right so like Abraham
in fact you guys National Geographic
published a cover article on Abraham and
I was interviewed for that I mean one of
the captions and I said it was one of my
more famous quotes I said there's no
sign that says Abraham slept here which
there aren't but if you go on the
internet and search for me you will see
me called Satan's spawn and various
other things for having said that I'm
like but there isn't anything so trying
to find Abraham I mean you try and find
somebody that's 4,000 years old it's
kind of hard alright but nevertheless
you know we know about that time period
we know about the patriarchs we know
there are movements around the Near East
at that time you know yes it could have
happened can we find Abraham itself well
not yet
same thing with David and Solomon you
know if there's a good bet that they did
exist but trying to find them is really
really difficult and in fact if you had
asked me before 1990
is there any evidence for David or
Solomon I would have said no there isn't
because there wasn't and then in 1992 in
1993 at Tel Dan way up north they found
the inscription that mentions Beit
dahveed now it dates from about a
hundred years 150 years after David it's
about 842 BCE but it mentions the house
of David at least if that's what you
interpret Beit Devine to mean there were
oh there's the biblical minimalists the
ones that don't believe anything and
they said what you know Beit Devine
could also mean the house of the kettle
could also mean the house of the uncle
and I'm like no they're talking about
the kings of Judah and the kings of
Israel in this context Beit dahveed is
not the house of the kettle it's the
house of David so that was our first
instance that David you know existed
were probably existed but Solomon still
look informed we actually got absolutely
nothing so I was digging at Megiddo for
20 years 10 seasons and again I say
people in the audience from Megiddo we
were never able to find Solomon there I
mean the Bible says that he built up
Megiddo but point me to one thing that
for sure he did it's kind of hard to see
now so that's why and again I get asked
this at cocktail parties all the time my
answer if somebody says you know do we
have any evidence for Solomon my answer
is not yet which I think makes everybody
happy because it's true we haven't found
it but that doesn't mean we won't so and
if we've got David then probably by
default we've got Solomon too but that's
the beauty of archaeology you never know
what you're gonna find and if you go out
looking for something well that's
probably the first case towards disaster
do not go out looking for a particular
thing go out and you find what you find
mm-hmm and I think the field of biblical
archaeology is particularly susceptible
to accusations of personal agendas right
because when you're digging in Bronze
Age Greece if you find something that
disrupts the idea of Mycenaean history
you're not going to personally have an
adverse effect on potentially on
somebody's belief system if they're
okasha this king did not live but once
you get into David Solomon
the temples and so there are always
people who will accuse people of having
specific agendas or personal beliefs
that influence working in the field of
Near Eastern archaeology and how do you
see that like being there smack in the
middle of it your colleagues you're
working with a whole variety of
archaeologists and scholars that are
coming from all very different
backgrounds and how do they resolve
their personal beliefs with their
professional actions that's an excellent
question it of course it's it depends on
the person right from person to person
that changes but on the digs that I've
been on and I guess I
my first dig actually was back in Israel
in 1980 and then when I came back 94
onward I was at Megiddo so when you're
on a dig everybody comes from all walks
of life and not everybody is an academic
I mean you've got a lot of people
checking off the bucket list doctors
lawyers you name it but you've also got
as we said at one point at Megiddo we
said we have every religion known to
humans all right that might have been a
bit of an exaggeration but we had Evan
we had evangelicals we had
fundamentalist we had a agnostic we had
atheists we had Jews Christians Muslims
Hindus we had absolutely everybody and
that's what made actually eating lunch
and dinner and all that was so
interesting because we were all chatting
with eat with each other but upon
occasion would come up the question of
how do you keep your faith in one hand
and deal with archaeology on the other
because especially if you're from a
faith that holds the Bible to be
inerrant that every word is true then
you may have a problem and some of my
seventh-day Adventist friends have a
problem with that so people like Randy
Yunker who teaches at Andrews University
they have the seven rules they made up
in order to keep their faith and their
career separate basically so it can be
tough it can be hard okay can you talk a
little bit about those seven rules well
yes because the seven rules are things
like don't push the evidence beyond what
it will support which of course just
because makes sense
other things basically don't go out
looking for something in particular
right whenever somebody says oh I'm
gonna go out and find the Ark of the
Covenant that's the path to rid a
disaster right so things like that but
basically there are scientific rules
that allow them to live with it and it
comes down to also if there is something
that maybe conflicts with your faith
find a way to resolve it find a way to
deal with it and a lot of people I mean
I know quite a few people that have kind
of changed their beliefs as a result of
what they've studied and all that so but
it really it depends me I was lucky
because I did not grow up particularly
religious so but I did grow up in a
family that questioned everything and
for me you know using the Bible is I use
it as another ancient source I mean yes
it's more religious than say the
neo-assyrian texts but it is another
ancient historical source so I tend to
use it that way so and like you said
that can create a problem with somebody
that maybe if they were digging in
Greece and they were using Homer that
doesn't usually create problems at the
dinner table for using Homer but
questioning the Bible can be problematic
so in fact this semester I'm teaching
history of ancient Israel and I've got a
about 50 55 students in there and then
I've got another seminar with 19
students on Jerusalem through the ages
and in both cases I came in and I said I
have to just tell you right now that
we're gonna be not questioning the Bible
but we're gonna be discussing the Bible
in every class and if that's gonna
create a problem for you then this is
probably not the right class but I mean
this is what you do like every Saturday
morning in Torah study or whatever you
discuss the Bible and so this is what we
do so just yesterday what's today
Wednesday yeah yesterday we were talking
in class about the death of Josiah in
609 which is right by Megiddo so it was
near and dear to my heart
and what I did is I put up a couple of
different texts on the screen and I said
look we've got an account in King's
we've got an account in Khurana
we've got an account in estrus and we've
got josephus and they each tell us that
Josiah is killed at Megiddo but each of
them has a different story about how he
died and I said which one's correct I
mean three of the four are biblical so
which one's correct right and so we
tried to figure that out so this is kind
of what it's like to be in the field as
well that you have it's almost like
you're watching a traffic accident and
you have different versions from each of
the people that are watching and
archaeology is one of those sources so
yeah so this is what we deal with and
what's fascinating about it is when
you're coming from different
perspectives very often archaeology is
the leveler because you're looking at
you're looking at very decidedly unsexy
things in that sense you're looking at
trade systems right you're looking at
food supplies you're looking at
armaments fortifications bigger systems
rather than single individuals yes and I
have to say I think I'm like most
archaeologists I did not get into biblic
archaeology to do biblical archaeology I
started out working on Mycenaean Greece
but I was interested in international
trade and relations during the Late
Bronze Age time of the Trojan War a time
of the Exodus and as I was looking at
what was coming in from Canaan and Egypt
and Anatolia and elsewhere into Greece
I'm like I suddenly went wait what am i
why am i digging in Greece why aren't I
digging over where these things came
from and I also after years said I want
to dig it a site that people have heard
of because I had spent most of my career
digging little tiny sites that nobody
had ever heard of and I want I said for
once I want to be able to come home and
somebody said where were you this summer
and I said I was digging at and named a
site they had heard of so back in early
90s my wife came up she and she had been
down at the archeological instead of
America meetings with me and she came up
with a pamphlet and she said I think I
found the dig you're looking for and she
said I said does it fit what I want a
place that people have heard of she said
well if you think people have heard of
Armageddon then it probably does qualify
and that's how I started at Megiddo was
because I wanted a dig to start at but I
didn't go over there to dig the Bible
and in fact you know Late Bronze Age
it's well you know it's before David and
Solomon but it's right in there with
Moses and after Abraham so it does
qualify but since 2005 we've been
digging at tel Kabri which was a
Canaanite site you know 1800 BCE
somewhere in there but I don't know is
Canaanite biblical or not so yes so I'm
digging in the region of the Bible Lance
let's put it that way no and I think
that's fairly typical for many I think
we run into it not only on the the the
sides of you know the PERT your personal
perspectives we from the archaeological
side we see it from the media side as
well you know we're you know I get
people coming to me saying you know
let's talk about Noah's Ark let's talk
about Exodus let's talk about David and
Solomon evidence for the first temple
and not these bigger systems that
actually inform those what are decidedly
smaller elements in that big archeology
picture you know and so I know you know
what the TV audience wants to hear about
but and what and what the TV audience
wants you to find but what do
archaeologists working in the subject
area right now what what are the big
things that need some of the big
questions that need to be answered some
of the big finds that it was things that
could solve a lot of well okay so
they'll take that apart a bit so this is
what I tried to do in the very short
introduction was introduce people to the
topic from the beginning of the field to
the end of the field and all that and
some of the big finds that we've made
already though I didn't call them famous
but one of the things that I didn't
really talk about is exactly what you
just asked like where are we going what
do we need to find I talked about things
that we would use in the future but in
terms of big questions well people have
been moving away from big questions to a
certain extent or at least in the way
they answer them we've been going to
micro our key
ecology for one thing where we're
looking at the little things under
microscopes in the soil and all that but
it's in order to answer questions that
are almost more basic in a way forget
about the Kings forget about the Wars
forget about all that how did the people
live what did they eat what did they
wear what did they fear what did they
believe in and these are things that are
actually really difficult to find out
from archaeology unless they've left you
the texts in which case is usually
pretty clear what they were doing but
otherwise I mean and this is what for
instance they're doing at Megiddo now is
this micro archaeology is looking at
stuff under that literally under the
microscope but we still have some big
questions out there I mean I personally
I wouldn't mind if we find evidence for
Solomon at some point that would be nice
I'm not waiting for it but we'll see but
most of the finds are unexpected I would
say and that's the beauty of archaeology
I mean you literally never know what
you're gonna find whenever I was at
Megiddo and I would come up at 5:00 a.m.
and I would walk over the tel before we
started digging I was always wondering
what is underneath my feet what am i
walking over now
if I stopped right here and started
digging what would I find I never did
stop of course because I had to get to
where we actually were digging but again
that's the beauty of archaeology you
never know what you're gonna find
I mean just look at the last couple of
days right they just announced finding a
bunch of year four coins from the first
Jewish revolt right allotment are just
found them in Jerusalem we've got the
Isaiah seal that you wrote about we've
got a number of things that had you
asked me last month what I thought we
would be finding I would never mention
those it wouldn't have occurred to me to
mention them so well I know the things
that we are aiming towards I also can't
predict what we're gonna find I do I
can't predict that whatever we find in
the next couple of years will upend
to a certain extent what we thought we
knew and that's again the beauty of
archaeology it's never
when we were coming up on the train you
were telling me about when you first
went to Megiddo you had an idea of what
you wanted to find could you share that
with us yeah it's a bit embarrassing but
okay one of the reasons I wanted to go
to Megiddo apart from the fact that it
was Armageddon that people had heard of
it was that in my studies in the Late
Bronze Age it's trade studies I had come
across I mean in fact I have read in the
original the Amarna archive right it was
found in the 1880s in Egypt it's a royal
archive of Amenhotep Arthur and his son
Akhenaten The Heretic Pharaoh who some
of you probably know and it's 360 7380
letters which are letters impart back
and forth between the Royal Kings at the
time as well as the vassal Kings in
Canaan so in that archive there are six
from Megiddo from beer India the king or
the governor of Megiddo and I thinking
and bear in mind this is back in 1994 so
forgive me I was young back then I
thought well if he wrote six letters
they must have replied to some of them
so there should be an archive at Megiddo
which I'm sure there is a University of
Chicago when they dug there in the 20s
and the 30s had dug away half of the
Late Bronze Age palace but the other
half is still there and we know exactly
where it is you can see it in the sight
of the ball so I wanted to find the
archive that's why I wanted to go now I
actually had asked to be in that area
and I was all set for when we found the
archive because I had brought my Acadian
dictionary with me and I had brought my
Acadian grammar and I was all set to
translate them on the spot little did I
know of course had we found the archive
they would never have let me get close
to them they would have brought in the
experts who actually knew how to
conjugate a verb in Acadian as opposed
to me right so I was young and
enthusiastic we never did find the
archive by the way if anybody's
interested it's still there
I know exactly where it must be
but we haven't found it and that was
that was about 25 years ago right yes
and when you think about just even in
that span of time how much archaeology
has changed particularly with the tools
that we have now and how far that that
you had come even at that point in 1994
from the origins of biblical archaeology
yeah so just in the 25 years since I
started at Megiddo that I mean the basic
techniques have not changed you still
dig with a trowel right you still have
to use toothbrushes and dental tools if
you find a skeleton things like that but
in the meantime now we've got remote
sensing right we've got
ground-penetrating radar we've got
electric resistivity and lidar for
example all the remote sensing
techniques lidar which is radar right so
a light emitting radar basically which
usually use from an airplane and you may
have seen they found a whole set of Maya
cities underneath the Colombia jungle
and it's been used in Belize and
Cambodia I mean this is just wow this is
gonna be they can map this stuff at one
of our sites we use later and they were
able to map our wine cellar in three
hours it would have taken us three weeks
to draw it if we had done so so
absolutely amazing but yes so just in
the 25 years it's really changed for
example the megiddo tomb that you may
have seen in the news just in the past
week or so yeah a real Canaanite burial
untouched royal Canaanite burial
untouched yes
which they found in 2016 of course I had
retired from the project in 2014 my
timing was wrong but never mind but all
the pictures are 3d and 3d modeling we
didn't have that in 1994 but now we've
got it it's absolutely gorgeous so
things have changed but where they've
really changed is since the original
explorers right I mean the original the
original guy that came to Megiddo for
example if we stick with that theme
Edward Robinson probably the Dean of
everything way back when he came with
Eli Smith back in the 1800s and they
were looking for all the biblical sites
and they were matching them up with
villages Arabic
villages with similar names which I mean
they thought they had identified dozens
properly and some of them they did get
right but for example he stood on top of
the mound at Megiddo looked out over the
Jezreel Valley and said where is Megiddo
he knew it was somewhere nearby he did
not realize he was standing right on top
of it I could forgive him for that
except he did the same thing at Jericho
and the same thing at Lakeisha so but
you know he didn't realize that it was a
man-made mound he didn't realize that at
Megiddo there were between 20 and 30
cities in that mound so so we've come a
long way since then since the 1800s
right and we always used to say that you
know back in the beginnings you dug with
the Bible people would proudly say they
did dug with the Bible in one hand and a
trowel in the other right that the book
informed the purpose and now you've got
papers coming out where people are
looking at isotopes in teeth in tiny
sites and trying to then go back from
there rather than come in from the book
to the archaeology go from the
archaeology then yeah so yeah so they're
looking at strontium isotope they're
looking at a DNA I mean this Philistine
cemetery outside of Ashkelon is gonna be
amazing ancient DNA right where we could
you know extract actually be blue
extract the DNA from ancient human
remains exactly so once we do that we
may be able to actually find out where
the Philistines do come from you know
and and where are the sea peoples which
are near and dear to my heart and all
that but yeah what we're doing in a way
I mean if we were back in Greece if we
were back in labor on say it's Greece I
would never be holding Homer in one hand
and excavating with the other maybe a
try perhaps a Troy but not elsewhere but
if the archaeology does match I'd say oh
how neat let look you know but even then
you don't know if Homer is Bronze Age
Iron Age but same thing with the Bible
you don't know when it's written down
it's still a matter of debate is it you
know 12th century ninth century eighth
century sixth century so I think so the
newer generation is
like I say kind of putting it to one
side and digging and but you still do
have people in the field that are
holding it if not in both hands at least
in their back pocket and in some ways
then that also because it informs
personal beliefs informs politics in
some ways too but archeology is identity
and we were talking about archeology in
nationalism you see this everywhere all
over the world we were talking about
Mussolini for instance in archeology and
what what role is Near Eastern biblical
archeology playing in inadvertantly in
the political world right now and
unwillingly because very often it
becomes opponents
yeah this is true especially in Israel
today the archaeology is used and abused
by modern politicians on both sides and
we are as you say frequently pawns it's
not just in Israel though as you
mentioned nationalism and archeology go
hand-in-hand in virtually every country
in the world there was a conference that
was held a couple years ago on
nationalism and archeology and they
simply said every country in Europe uses
archeology for nationalism which is true
and so for example you just mentioned
Mussolini most everything you see in
Rome right now was excavated by
Mussolini because he said I am a Roman
right so I think in Israel though you
would go back probably - yeah Dean you
got yeah Dean digging at hots or digging
at Masada digging at Megiddo and
especially when he's there in the 50s
and the 60s and then into the 70s I mean
when he was at hots or he was digging
with not only with ben-gurion
permission but using state labor right
the state paid for his dig and then when
he's at Masada and you know 64 65 I mean
what more could you be but trying to
figure out what actually happened back
at the end of the first Jewish revolt
but there it was trying to tie the
brand-new State of Israel
to biblical roots and you certainly
can't blame them at that time but I
would do I would say in their defense
they're not the only ones that have done
it yeah absolutely not
and one one thing I find very
fascinating about the history of
Biblical Archaeology specifically in
modern Israel too is the way that it
helped the young state form an identity
in the sense where you had whole
cabooses the go crews going out and
volunteering like these were not
professional archaeologists but they
felt they had a role in uncovering the
identity of the state and and the beauty
of it was created generations of people
who love archaeology and understand it
and that's true even today but not even
for nationalistic purposes it's just a
this is ours is what I would say so for
example the the site of Cobre where I've
been also digging in we alternated years
so Megiddo was even numbered years
Cauvery was odd-numbered year so I was
always gone as my wife informs me at
kibrit were on that's the modern kibbutz
name kibbutz kibrit and we are digging
in an avocado growth like literally it's
an avocado Grove and to get in there's
an electronic gate which you have to
call with your cell phone and then it'll
open it up and so the kyboot snakes
think of it as their site and they come
down and we give them tours and you know
it is their site it's on their land but
it's not just their site it's their site
so and at one point we said you know
thank you in the offseasons for guarding
your site for us and they looked at us
and said you mean the electronic gate
and we said yeah they said that's not
there to protect the site that's there
to protect the avocados
you guys are the beneficiaries of that
but it's that you know they're proud
they are proud of their sight and and
well they should be it's really not only
is it an interesting sight but now it
turns out to have the oldest and largest
wine cellar ever found anywhere so and
one of these days we will try and
recreate the the wine if we can can you
tell us a little bit about this wine
cellar the wine cellar yeah actually I
think I have let me I'm gonna
fast-forward here I think I have a
picture for you let's see if I can we
can come back to any of these if you
want to I didn't know what you guys were
gonna ask in yours there there we go so
there's our wine cellar
looks like Napa it's nice isn't it this
is my students act done Seth whom some
of you know he's very embarrassed by us
because it made New York Times
Washington Post and he said you put a
picture of me twerking on the front page
of every newspaper so but this
particular one this was unexpected of
course and in fact if this guy right
there it's actually not a guy it's a she
that's Bessie we found Bessie on the
third day of 2013 totally unexpected now
this is the Canaanite palace it dates to
1800 BCE we among other things and this
goes back to some of the questions you
were asking we had decided that we
wanted to try and investigate the rise
of rulership in this area and including
which is built first the fortification
wall or the palace which one do you
build first the wall because you're
protecting the palace or the palace
because now you have a wall but we also
wanted to do palatial versus non
palatial the haves versus the have-nots
I try and look at the 1% yes exactly
right so we went to an area that we
thought was outside the palace no it's
the storerooms of the palace so we found
Bessie on like the fourth day of the
first week and we were running a field
school so I was telling the students
don't just yank this out of the ground
you actually have to wait and see what
its resting on well it turned out that
Bessie was resting on the floor but by
the time we got down to the floor
she had been joined by 30
nine of her friends and so this one room
has 40 jars each of them 3 feet tall
each of them holding a hundred litres
and then the question was of what so we
took some of the shirts because the jars
you can see they've retained their shape
they're filled with dirt which is why
the wine has a bit of an earthy taste
now sorry I can't resist that joke but
so the wine is all gone but the wine
while it was in the jars had seeped into
the ceramics of the sides and so now we
can do organic residue analysis so
Andrew cow at Brandeis ran everything
through their gas spectrometer machine
and figured out it's mostly red wine
some white wine and it is flavored with
additives like mint and juniper berry
and lots of honey and also resin to keep
it going so at one point we we do want
to recreate this if we can but esophagus
or landau my co-director who's from
Haifa he at one point he stopped he
started laughing and he says you do
realize what this is gonna taste like
I'm like no he says well have you had
Greek red Cena like yeah sure he's like
think retsina
flavored with cough syrup
I looked at him and just straight-faced
I said that's not gonna sell which is
true so we haven't yet recreated this
but I think we will but this is a good
example this is the last thing we ever
expected to find and if you had asked me
as a 7 year old when I declared to my
mother I was going to be an archeologist
and she had said you know oh that's so
sweet honey what do you expect to find I
don't think I would ever have said you
know the oldest and largest wine cellar
in the ancient Near East and yet there
it is so that's the beauty of
archaeology you really can't predict
what you're gonna find
right it's the questions you posed and
you don't know the answers that are
going to come out of it
and speaking of questions since this is
supposed to be a very short talk on
Biblical Archaeology I'm sure the
audience has plenty of questions so if
you have questions you want to hand over
to Judy we could start talking about
those and she'll collect those and bring
those up and then we'll run through
those and and so you were also
mentioning that there is so is there a
potential that you're going to make this
wine maybe maybe small batches for
artisanal dinner parties we might try
and do so in in order to do it though in
each of ways so we now have found three
more rooms right so that was the first
year and then in 2015 we found three
more rooms with another 70 jars yeah so
we have a better almost 120 jars now
each of them holding a hundred liters so
that's the equivalent of about 20,000
bottles in modern terms so we're not
thinking this is a wine cellar anymore
we think this is a small winery either
that or this is the original party
palace it's one of the two but in each
of the rooms you can actually see
there's a hole right there
that's a drain each of the rooms has a
drain and in that drain we found some
grape seeds but we weren't quite
prepared to have found them we found
them been sifting but over here you can
see that little white corner there
that's in the next room and it's right
over the drain in that room so it's
still protected we haven't excavated it
so I want to now go back in our next
season which will be 2019 by the way if
anybody wants to come and do with us wwg
AFRICOM no I'm kidding we don't
but if you do want to come digging we
will do it but that's one of my aims is
to take out that little triangle go into
that drain be prepared to find more
seeds and then do DNA on that if we can
do the DNA we can figure out the
varietal of grape and then we can
actually redo the wine which we kind of
need
wait what's so exciting about that too
is that so many strains of grape of wine
grape are extinct now you have the
potential by recovering these ancient
grape seeds to actually potentially do a
little Jurassic Park right yeah with our
wine exactly might be able to like you
if you've seen Methuselah the plant that
they're growing now we might be able to
do something like that so we'll see I
don't know that might be a bit far in
the future but I've been trying to get
wineries interested in this we have some
interest but but we'll see and of course
the grapes that are there you know most
of them are brought by the Russell's now
so we might have to go fairly far afield
in this but one of these days so so this
now qualifies as the best thing I've
ever found I would say but before that
let me show you this guy this is my
first dig I was a tall enough ah run by
Michigan way up in the north and the
Hula Valley I was a sophomore in college
and one morning I found a petrified
monkey's paw or at least that's what I
thought I had monkey petrified monkey
paw exactly yes now I have to put you in
context here first of all back in those
days and this was 1980 we were digging
in the Sun no shades and we were digging
basically wearing almost nothing I dug
with shorts since in the days before we
realized about skin cancer and all of
that so it was about 8:30 or 9:00 in the
morning and I was Paris Lee close to
sunstroke and my little digging hammer
my petite hit something and it flew up
in the air and in slow motion because I
had almost sunstroke in Lake
petrified monkeys pluck is all I saw was
something green and spinning but by the
time it landed I had come to my senses
and I said silly there were no monkeys
in northern Israel back then
so what could have possibly been well it
turned out it was this guy it's a little
bronze figurine it's actually the Greek
god Pan the guy with the double flutes
and all that and this would have been at
the end of a like this chair it would
have been a wooden chair but at the end
you had these little things in bronze
that you could hold on to while you're
sitting there so the chair is long gone
its disintegrated
but that little end piece was still
there so this is from the Hellenistic
period like third century second century
BCE so we drew this we photographed it
and then they told me they've sent it to
Jerusalem I didn't know I never saw it
for like thirty years until one day
there it is again you can see him there
Asaf and I went down to Haifa we were
taking our kibrit faience at the end of
the season and he said I gotta go down
in the storeroom once you go over to our
little museum and take a look while
you're there and so I walked into the
the greco-roman room and from the
doorway
I saw a cross I said huh that looks a
lot like what I found in 1980 and I got
closer and I that is what I found in
1980 and what you don't see in this
picture is a little sign that says on
loan from the Israel Museum and they had
brought it up here so I knew us off
would not believe me so that's me and
there it is
and it was a good thing I took the
picture because when we went back the
next week it was gone they had returned
it so that was the best thing I had ever
found my petrified monkey spot until I
found the wine cellar so I mean who
knows what's next
it could be anything or nothing bear in
mind that that was in 1880 with the
petrified monkey's paw knot and then the
wine cellar was twenty thirteen that's a
long time in between so whenever people
say you know we'll what have you found I
said well we find stuff every season but
most of its not of interest to anybody
except for us but these you know at
least the wine cellar made the paper
so we'll see anyway so I don't know
we'll see what happens and again you
know 2019 when I go out again I'll be
home writing a book this summer but 2019
I'm already excited for what we might
find as to what it is if you were to say
to me what do you I what do you expect
to find I'll be like got no clue but
it's gonna be good I have no idea so you
need to come with me that kind of thing
so I'm lucky to be doing something that
I love and that I've wanted to do since
I was seven so not everybody is as lucky
okay we have plenty of great questions
from everybody so we're gonna we're
gonna start by throwing a softball at
you here okay so what are some of the
biggest arguments going on right now in
the field of Biblical Archaeology going
on I think still probably would be
where's the tenth century I think
probably still David and Solomon so yeah
again significance of the 10th century
is the monarchy right so this goes back
and again it actually goes to the heart
of some of what we were talking about
when you Dean was digging at hot sore
and Megiddo he thought he had found King
Solomon there and now that's been read
aided by Israel Finkelstein who
basically in a nutshell said everything
that we thought dated to the 10th
century BCE and David and Solomon is
actually ninth century and is a hab
armoury those people that's being
resolved by radiocarbon dating so you've
got amoebas are in one hand
Israel Finkelstein on the other there
now about 30 years apart which in
radiocarbon dating can also be plus or
minus so I think they're getting closer
and closer but we haven't resolved that
yet and that's an internal debate that
has external ramifications here's
another one and this is actually really
interesting Orthodox Jews in archeology
in Israel do they participate in
archeology what how what how do they fit
in to the practice of archaeology in
Israel today good question so it depends
on what level of Orthodox you mean and
if that can be conservative or not very
rarely do you get the ultra-orthodox of
course though you do get some lots of
people like from bar-ilan excavate for
example yeah I think the closest that we
got there was a local I hesitate to call
him a kid but he was young he was 14
orthodox wanted to come excavate with us
and his dad who had made ollie off from
the States was ok with that and in fact
he came and dug with us as well but I
think in all my years that was the first
time I've actually seen somebody
practicing who was digging yeah that was
interesting but he handled it well it
was unfortunately we didn't find
anything that we we had pottery that was
it so yeah let's see oh here we go you
say that there is doubt that Solomon
existed but is there any doubt or
evidence that the first temple was built
or that it existed from from an
archaeological perspective yeah okay so
yeah is there any doubt that the first
yes there's lots of doubt by people in
various quarters shall we say I mean in
particularly you've got yes or Arafat
who kept saying that the temple wasn't
there or people say it's not there I'm
like who are your people right so the
vast majority of the archaeologists
would say yes of course it was there the
problem is that the temple mount's been
built and rebuilt and built and rebuilt
upon for
so long it's unlikely to fight you're
unlikely to find anything but in the
sipping project that was has been going
down in the wadi Keshawn they're finding
stuff from the first temple period that
was taken off the mound by the watch
when they built the mosque so there are
still people that claim that it's not
there but I think pretty much every
living archeologist would say of course
it was there right but this goes back to
the use and abuse of archeology and
using it for political purposes yeah
what are some of the most interesting
biblical facts about which you have a
high degree of confidence true or false
through archaeology or false I would say
it's a combination of archaeology and
other things so for example you've heard
of a little thing called the Babylonian
exile yeah okay so we've got
confirmation for that from three or four
different sources right so the the
Hebrew Bible tells us about it
but so do the Babylonian chronicles that
were kept by the Babylonian priests and
the time of Nebuchadnezzar so this is
what 586 BCE give or take so we've got
what I would call biblical evidence
we've got extra biblical evidence and
then we've got archaeology where for
example when they were digging in the
old city after in 1967 Nachman avi God
was digging and found evidence of a huge
battle that had taken place round about
586 BCE and in the destruction he found
two different types of arrowheads bronze
arrowheads and iron arrowheads and one
type was try the bait it was three-sided
the only people using three-sided
arrowheads at that time are the NiO
Babylonians meaning that what he had
just uncovered was the destructive the
conquest destruction of Jerusalem by
Nebuchadnezzar and then we've got in the
Babylonian chronicles and elsewhere
we've got the numbers that were taken
away so I would say there's pretty good
confirmation that the the Babylonian
exile did take place and most recently
and this is actually a little
disarming shall we say there were a
number of cuneiform texts that appeared
on the market they were looted from
somewhere but they mention a city in
Mesopotamia somewhere near Babylon which
in translation was called Judah town and
these are the people that were taken off
in the Babylonian exile as far as we can
tell the big problem is we don't know
what site they were found at which is oh
I mean it's terrible so but again that's
confirmation that they that it did take
place we've also got a ration tablet
that says rations for jehovah chen king
of judah in babylon so we know that that
did take place so there are things that
you can find but often there are little
twists so you you're wondering like for
example the Tel Dan steely that I
mentioned the one that has bait devide
on it the house of David they're talking
about killing a king of Israel in the
king of Judah and they named them the
problem is we don't know who actually
put up the inscription but it's not that
it's has Al of Damascus well if you look
in the biblical account those same two
kings are killed but it says that Jehu
or jay who killed them so how could you
have has a all of Damascus killed these
two kings or is it Jay who or is it Jay
who working for Hosea so it's like ooh
you almost confirmed it and then you
gave us a little twist but again that's
the beauty of archaeology in ancient
history everything nothing is as simple
as it seems well I know you love your
see people just a little quick
description on who were talking about
when we talked about the sea people okay
so the sea peoples I like them they're
better than the B people's and not as
good as the D people's but all right so
these are people they are the peoples of
the sea and they were given this name by
a french egyptologist in the 1800s
they're the ones that are responsible
supposedly for the end of the Late
Bronze Age everything collapses just
after 1200 BCE and it is Ramses the 3rd
that tells us about it he's got them on
the wall of his
mortuary temple he doesn't call them the
peoples of the sea he gives them their
own names the the denyen the a quest and
the pol esse the pleasant are probably
the Philistines even shampo Leone the
guy who deciphered hieroglyphics he had
already said this so the sea peoples
were always blamed for the end of the
Late Bronze Age when everything came
crashing collapsing down right and when
we talk about you know the the palasa
you know as portrayed in Rameses
meditated reliefs at medinet habu in his
funerary reliefs we there is the idea
that you know they become the
Philistines and we've got a lot of
questions here about who were the
Philistine where did they come from the
the the big you know enemy yeah okay so
this plays into a larger picture first
of all the Bible says the Philistines
come from Crete and so they may well
have come from Crete
but the please' if they are the
Philistines are part of nine groups that
are named both by Rameses and Merneptah
earlier these sea peoples come twice
they come in 12:07 and in eleven seventy
seven which is the title of my book
talked about this the problem for their
and I don't want to go off on a tangent
but those dates
12:07 1177 those are our dates what they
actually say is the fifth year the
eighth year and that would you know be
better to go by the problem is we don't
know exactly where they come from and we
don't know where they go to so like one
group is the shardana and so we play a
linguistic game and say oh shardana that
sounds like Sardinia so maybe they come
from there the shekel ash that sounds
like Sicily maybe they come from there
but it's games so somebody once asked me
if I give you a million dollars what
would you go do and I said I would go
looking for the origins of the sea
peoples and we'd probably go over to
western Mediterranean and dig there so
trying to figure out where they come
from and where they go to would be very
very interesting but also I have to say
in their defense I don't think the sea
peoples entered the Late Bronze Age so
they are part of it
but there's also earthquakes there's
also climate change there is drought
there are famines we know this
archaeologically and textually so this
is part of a much larger picture and
kind of along the same lines for our
final question we've got so many great
ones but we've you know this very short
right the relationship between the
Canaanites in the ancient Hebrews
what does archeology tell us about that
the relations between the ancient
Canaanites and the Hebrews yeah stay
tuned we're we're trying to figure that
out I mean we're digging a Canaanite
palace which comes to an end at about
1500 so we're trying to figure out what
goes from there but it's also part of
the larger question too I mean and if we
put this into a broader thing with the
Canaanites and the Israelites and all
that and to bring it back to my sea
peoples I actually think that if the
exodus is taking place that this is the
time period when it's going to happen
somewhere around 1250 which which works
archaeologically but also when the sea
peoples come in they knock off the
Canaanites they're gone I actually think
this is how the Israelites managed to
make it into Canaan because I mean much
as I love my Israelites I don't think
they could have knocked off the
Canaanites on their own but if the sea
peoples had come in and if drought and
famine had hit and the land is kind of
going down anyway that's a perfect time
for the Israelites to come in and settle
now maybe they claim to have conquered
it when they didn't actually but people
do that all the time that's history
that's why we need archaeology exactly
so this is what I call the coattail
hypothesis and one of the reasons that I
do is remember I said the sea peoples
come in 12:07 BCE and that's the fifth
year of Merneptah that's the exact same
year that the famous Israel steely dates
- it's also called the Merneptah stele
II it's where the name Israel is
mentioned it's the first time outside
the Bible and in Egyptian there's a
before that meaning this is a people not
a place so the fact that Merneptah is
mentioning Israel in the same basically
the same year that he mentions the Sea
Peoples I don't think it's an accident
so I think we have to tie the exodus
into the collapse of the Late Bronze Age
and to me it makes perfect sense because
that's then what is going to rise out of
the ashes of the destruction of the old
world and then you're gonna get Israel
and Judah coming out of that so this is
biblical archaeology for me and that's
why it lives and continues to live well
I think you've given us plenty of food
for thought and good discussions around
the Seder table coming up this holiday
huh if you did so much really
thank you thank you Eric okay I want to
thank both Eric and Kristen what an
interesting talk thank you both so much
there will be a reception and a book
signing and I would ask if you all
noticed we passed out a piece of paper
asking where you heard of this program
so if you would take a moment and just
check off where you did hear from this
of this and then leave your little
survey just at the table outside we
would really appreciate knowing that so
I hope to see you at the reception thank
you
