REAL-TIME CLOSED CAPTIONING
REAL-TIME CLOSED CAPTIONING
PROVIDED BY U.S. CAPTIONING
PROVIDED BY U.S. CAPTIONING
COMPANY.
COMPANY.
>> WHY ARE MICHIGAN JAILS SO
>> WHY ARE MICHIGAN JAILS SO
CROWDED WHEN CRIME IS GOING
CROWDED WHEN CRIME IS GOING
DOWN?
DOWN?
MICHIGAN SUPREME COURT JUSTICE
MICHIGAN SUPREME COURT JUSTICE
CHIEF M BEING CORMACK AND GARLIN
CHIEF M BEING CORMACK AND GARLIN
GILCHRIST ARE HERE WITH ANSWERS.
GILCHRIST ARE HERE WITH ANSWERS.
DEFENDING THE ENVIRONMENT, NEW
DEFENDING THE ENVIRONMENT, NEW
CHEMICALS AND COSTLY CLEANUPS
CHEMICALS AND COSTLY CLEANUPS
HAVE PEOPLE WORRIED FROM SANILAC
HAVE PEOPLE WORRIED FROM SANILAC
COUNTY TO DOWNTOWN DETROIT.
COUNTY TO DOWNTOWN DETROIT.
TODAY IS SUN SUNDAY, JANUARY 26T
TODAY IS SUN SUNDAY, JANUARY 26T
2020 AND THIS IS FLASH POINT.
2020 AND THIS IS FLASH POINT.
>> DEVIN: WELCOME TO FLASH
>> DEVIN: WELCOME TO FLASH
POINT.
POINT.
IT’S BEEN OF COURSE A HISTORIC
IT’S BEEN OF COURSE A HISTORIC
PEOPLE IN THE NATION WITH THE
PEOPLE IN THE NATION WITH THE
IMPEACHMENT TRIAL OF PRESIDENT
IMPEACHMENT TRIAL OF PRESIDENT
TRUMP UNDERWAY IN THE SENATE.
TRUMP UNDERWAY IN THE SENATE.
WE’LL SET THAT ASIDE.
WE’LL SET THAT ASIDE.
NOT TO WORRY THERE WILL BE
NOT TO WORRY THERE WILL BE
PLENTY OF CONVERSATION ABOUT
PLENTY OF CONVERSATION ABOUT
THAT ON OTHER SUNDAY MORNING
THAT ON OTHER SUNDAY MORNING
PROGRAMS TODAY.
PROGRAMS TODAY.
HERE AT FLASH POINT WE’LL KEEP
HERE AT FLASH POINT WE’LL KEEP
OUR EYE ON CRITICAL TOPICS.
OUR EYE ON CRITICAL TOPICS.
ONE OF THEM AN ENVIRONMENTAL
ONE OF THEM AN ENVIRONMENTAL
WORRIES AT A PLAGUE DURING THIS
WORRIES AT A PLAGUE DURING THIS
YOUNG NEW YEAR.
YOUNG NEW YEAR.
IF YOU’RE WITH US EVERY WEEK,
IF YOU’RE WITH US EVERY WEEK,
YOU KNOW WE’VE DEVOTED A LOT OF
YOU KNOW WE’VE DEVOTED A LOT OF
TIME TO THE GREEN OOZE ON 696
TIME TO THE GREEN OOZE ON 696
AND THE DOCK COLLAPSE ON THE
AND THE DOCK COLLAPSE ON THE
DETROIT RIVER.
DETROIT RIVER.
THEY’RE JUST TWO OF THE
THEY’RE JUST TWO OF THE
THOUSANDS OF WORRIES ON THE
THOUSANDS OF WORRIES ON THE
RADAR OF THE DEPARTMENT OF
RADAR OF THE DEPARTMENT OF
ENVIRONMENT AND GREAT LAKES AND
ENVIRONMENT AND GREAT LAKES AND
ENERGY.
ENERGY.
THESE MATTERS HAVE ALSO BECOME
THESE MATTERS HAVE ALSO BECOME
THE FULL-TIME JOBS OF TWO OF OUR
THE FULL-TIME JOBS OF TWO OF OUR
REPORTERS HERE AT LOCAL 4.
REPORTERS HERE AT LOCAL 4.
A LITTLE LATER THIS MORNING,
A LITTLE LATER THIS MORNING,
WE’LL TALK WITH KAREN DREW AND
WE’LL TALK WITH KAREN DREW AND
HANK WINCHESTER TO HAS THEM MOST
HANK WINCHESTER TO HAS THEM MOST
WORRIED TO ASSURE THAT THINGS
WORRIED TO ASSURE THAT THINGS
ARE UNDER CONTROL.
ARE UNDER CONTROL.
WE’LL START WITH WHAT MANY
WE’LL START WITH WHAT MANY
MICHIGAN LEADERS DESCRIBE AS AN
MICHIGAN LEADERS DESCRIBE AS AN
ABSOLUTE AND NECESSARY PRIORITY
ABSOLUTE AND NECESSARY PRIORITY
FOR OUR STATE.
FOR OUR STATE.
RIGHT NOW, THERE ARE NEARLY
RIGHT NOW, THERE ARE NEARLY
THREE TIMES AS MANY PEOPLE IN
THREE TIMES AS MANY PEOPLE IN
MICHIGAN JAILS AS THERE WERE 40
MICHIGAN JAILS AS THERE WERE 40
YEARS AGO.
YEARS AGO.
IT’S EXTREMELY EXPENSIVE, BUT
IT’S EXTREMELY EXPENSIVE, BUT
WORSE, IT SEEMS IT’S VASTLY
WORSE, IT SEEMS IT’S VASTLY
INEFFECTIVE AND OFTEN UNFAIR
INEFFECTIVE AND OFTEN UNFAIR
SYSTEM, A TASK FORCE WAS PUT
SYSTEM, A TASK FORCE WAS PUT
TOGETHER TO COME UP WITH ANSWERS
TOGETHER TO COME UP WITH ANSWERS
FOR THIS DEEPLY VEXING DILEMMA.
FOR THIS DEEPLY VEXING DILEMMA.
SUGGESTIONS ARE NOW IN, ARE THEY
SUGGESTIONS ARE NOW IN, ARE THEY
PRACTICAL.
PRACTICAL.
DO THEY PUT ANYONE AT RISK ON
DO THEY PUT ANYONE AT RISK ON
OTHER SIDES OF THE BARS.
OTHER SIDES OF THE BARS.
AND THE TASK FORCE OF THE
AND THE TASK FORCE OF THE
SUPREME COURT JUSTICE BRIDGETTE
SUPREME COURT JUSTICE BRIDGETTE
MCCORMACK AND GARLIN GILCHRIST.
MCCORMACK AND GARLIN GILCHRIST.
THEY’RE BOTH HERE AND ON FLASH
THEY’RE BOTH HERE AND ON FLASH
POINT THIS MORNING.
POINT THIS MORNING.
♪
♪
YOU KNOW, IT DOESN’T SEEM TO
YOU KNOW, IT DOESN’T SEEM TO
MAKE MUCH SENSE.
MAKE MUCH SENSE.
CRIME RATES ARE DOWN.
CRIME RATES ARE DOWN.
IN FACT ARRESTS ARE DOWN MORE
IN FACT ARRESTS ARE DOWN MORE
THAN 20% OVER THE LAST 10 YEARS.
THAN 20% OVER THE LAST 10 YEARS.
WE HAVE A NEW AND GROWING
WE HAVE A NEW AND GROWING
UNDERSTANDING OF MENTAL ILLNESS
UNDERSTANDING OF MENTAL ILLNESS
AND ITS RELATION TO CRIME YET,
AND ITS RELATION TO CRIME YET,
OUR JAILS CONTINUE TO OVERFLOW.
OUR JAILS CONTINUE TO OVERFLOW.
SOMETHING IS WRONG AND EVEN WITH
SOMETHING IS WRONG AND EVEN WITH
A STATE WITH CRUMBLING ROADS AND
A STATE WITH CRUMBLING ROADS AND
INFRASTRUCTURE, CALLING CRIMINAL
INFRASTRUCTURE, CALLING CRIMINAL
JUSTICE REFORM HIS NUMBER ONE
JUSTICE REFORM HIS NUMBER ONE
PRIORITY.
PRIORITY.
HE PUT TOGETHER A TASK FOR FORCE
HE PUT TOGETHER A TASK FOR FORCE
TO LOOK FOR SOLUTIONS AND
TO LOOK FOR SOLUTIONS AND
THEY’VE DELIVERED 18 OF THEM AND
THEY’VE DELIVERED 18 OF THEM AND
THE TWO LEADERS OF THE TASK
THE TWO LEADERS OF THE TASK
FORCE ARE WITH US.
FORCE ARE WITH US.
CHIEF JUSTICE OF THE SUPREME
CHIEF JUSTICE OF THE SUPREME
COURT JUSTICE MCCORMACK AND LT.
COURT JUSTICE MCCORMACK AND LT.
GOVERNOR GILCHRIST.
GOVERNOR GILCHRIST.
JUSTICE MCCORMACK, THIS IS AN
JUSTICE MCCORMACK, THIS IS AN
ACTIVIST ROLE.
ACTIVIST ROLE.
IS THIS COMFORTABLE FOR YOU?
IS THIS COMFORTABLE FOR YOU?
LET ME PUSH BACK A LITTLE.
LET ME PUSH BACK A LITTLE.
I DON’T THINK IT’S AN ACTIVIST
I DON’T THINK IT’S AN ACTIVIST
ROLE.
ROLE.
THE TASK FORCE WAS CHARGED WITH
THE TASK FORCE WAS CHARGED WITH
FIGURING OUT WITH DATA WHAT’S
FIGURING OUT WITH DATA WHAT’S
GOING ON AND WHY ARE OUR JAIL
GOING ON AND WHY ARE OUR JAIL
POPULATIONS WHERE THEY ARE.
POPULATIONS WHERE THEY ARE.
WHY HAVE THOSE POPULATIONS GROWN
WHY HAVE THOSE POPULATIONS GROWN
THREE TIMES IN THE LAST THREE
THREE TIMES IN THE LAST THREE
DECADES, WHEN OUR CRIME IS AT A
DECADES, WHEN OUR CRIME IS AT A
50-YEAR LOW.
50-YEAR LOW.
AND WE DIDN’T HAVE STATEWIDE
AND WE DIDN’T HAVE STATEWIDE
DATA ON THAT BEFORE AND THEN
DATA ON THAT BEFORE AND THEN
BASED ON THAT DATA, WITH A
BASED ON THAT DATA, WITH A
REALLY DIVERSE GROUP OF
REALLY DIVERSE GROUP OF
STAKEHOLDERS ON THE TABLE, MAKE
STAKEHOLDERS ON THE TABLE, MAKE
RECOMMENDATIONS THAT THE POLICY
RECOMMENDATIONS THAT THE POLICY
BRANCHES WILL FIGURE OUT WHICH
BRANCHES WILL FIGURE OUT WHICH
OF THOSE OR HOW AMONG THOSE THEY
OF THOSE OR HOW AMONG THOSE THEY
WILL WANT TO IMPLEMENT THEM.
WILL WANT TO IMPLEMENT THEM.
I DO THIS MORE AS A LEADERSHIP
I DO THIS MORE AS A LEADERSHIP
ROLE IN GATHERING DATA AND BEING
ROLE IN GATHERING DATA AND BEING
ABLE TO MAKE EVIDENCE-BASED AND
ABLE TO MAKE EVIDENCE-BASED AND
VALUES-BASED RECOMMENDATIONS.
VALUES-BASED RECOMMENDATIONS.
>> DEVIN: YOU’VE COME UP WITH 18
>> DEVIN: YOU’VE COME UP WITH 18
AND THE HARD PART, WHAT CAN
AND THE HARD PART, WHAT CAN
EVERYBODY AGREE ON.
EVERYBODY AGREE ON.
LT. GOVERNOR GILCHRIST, IF YOU
LT. GOVERNOR GILCHRIST, IF YOU
COULD, WHAT WAS THE MOST EYE
COULD, WHAT WAS THE MOST EYE
POPPING FINDING FOR YOU AS YOU
POPPING FINDING FOR YOU AS YOU
STARTED TO DIG INTO THIS
STARTED TO DIG INTO THIS
PROBLEM?
PROBLEM?
>> WE HAVE 83 COUNTIES, 81 JAIL
>> WE HAVE 83 COUNTIES, 81 JAIL
SYSTEMS ALL THE DATA WITH THE
SYSTEMS ALL THE DATA WITH THE
JAILS DON’T TALK TO EACH OTHER,
JAILS DON’T TALK TO EACH OTHER,
BUT THROUGH THE PROCESS WE HAVE
BUT THROUGH THE PROCESS WE HAVE
A CLEAR SENSE WHO IS IN JAIL AND
A CLEAR SENSE WHO IS IN JAIL AND
WHY AND HOW LONG.
WHY AND HOW LONG.
ONE OF THE MOST STRIKING THINGS
ONE OF THE MOST STRIKING THINGS
THAT CAME UP, ALMOST HALF OF THE
THAT CAME UP, ALMOST HALF OF THE
PEOPLE WHO ARE IN COUNTY JAIL
PEOPLE WHO ARE IN COUNTY JAIL
TODAY ARE THERE BECAUSE OF
TODAY ARE THERE BECAUSE OF
SUSPENDED DRIVER’S LICENSES.
SUSPENDED DRIVER’S LICENSES.
OR NOT PAYING FINES RELATED TO
OR NOT PAYING FINES RELATED TO
DRIVER’S LICENSES.
DRIVER’S LICENSES.
THE NUMBER ONE DRIVER OF OUR
THE NUMBER ONE DRIVER OF OUR
JAIL POPULATION, NO PUN
JAIL POPULATION, NO PUN
INTENDED.
INTENDED.
THAT’S WHY ONE OF THE FIRST
THAT’S WHY ONE OF THE FIRST
RECOMMENDATIONS IN SET OF 18 IS
RECOMMENDATIONS IN SET OF 18 IS
CHANGING THE WAY WE’RE TREATING
CHANGING THE WAY WE’RE TREATING
DRIVER’S LICENSES SUSPENSIONS
DRIVER’S LICENSES SUSPENSIONS
AND LIMITING REASONS WHY WE TAKE
AND LIMITING REASONS WHY WE TAKE
A DRIVER’S LICENSE AWAY.
A DRIVER’S LICENSE AWAY.
WE TRY TO HAVE THE
WE TRY TO HAVE THE
RECOMMENDATIONS BE THINGS THAT
RECOMMENDATIONS BE THINGS THAT
WILL MAKE AN IMPACT ON PEOPLE
WILL MAKE AN IMPACT ON PEOPLE
NOT ONLY IN JAIL, BUT THE
NOT ONLY IN JAIL, BUT THE
COMMUNITIES IN WHICH THEY LIVE.
COMMUNITIES IN WHICH THEY LIVE.
>> ONCE SOMEBODY LOSES THEIR
>> ONCE SOMEBODY LOSES THEIR
DRIVER’S LICENSE, THE ABILITY
DRIVER’S LICENSE, THE ABILITY
TO, THE OTHER PROBLEMS IT
TO, THE OTHER PROBLEMS IT
CREATES, THE ABILITY TO GET OUT
CREATES, THE ABILITY TO GET OUT
OF IT BY WORKING TO AFFORD
OF IT BY WORKING TO AFFORD
WHATEVER IT IS IS SHOT.
WHATEVER IT IS IS SHOT.
>> IT’S HARD IN MICHIGAN, AS YOU
>> IT’S HARD IN MICHIGAN, AS YOU
KNOW.
KNOW.
MOST PEOPLE GET TO WORK WITH
MOST PEOPLE GET TO WORK WITH
CARS AND, YOU KNOW, IF--
CARS AND, YOU KNOW, IF--
>> NOT OUR RELIABLE MASS
>> NOT OUR RELIABLE MASS
TRANSIT?
TRANSIT?
I UNDERSTAND.
I UNDERSTAND.
>> I THINK THAT’S A DIFFERENT
>> I THINK THAT’S A DIFFERENT
SHOW.
SHOW.
[LAUGHTER]
[LAUGHTER]
>>  AND NO ONE PUT ME ON THAT
>>  AND NO ONE PUT ME ON THAT
TASK FORCE YET.
TASK FORCE YET.
[LAUGHTER]
[LAUGHTER]
>>  BUT IF WE ARE SUSPENDING
>>  BUT IF WE ARE SUSPENDING
PEOPLE’S DRIVER’S LICENSES
PEOPLE’S DRIVER’S LICENSES
BECAUSE THEY HAVEN’T BEEN ABLE
BECAUSE THEY HAVEN’T BEEN ABLE
TO PAY FINES AND FEES RELATED TO
TO PAY FINES AND FEES RELATED TO
SOME OFFENSE THAT HAS KNOWING TO
SOME OFFENSE THAT HAS KNOWING TO
DO WITH DRIVING SAFETY, IT’S NOT
DO WITH DRIVING SAFETY, IT’S NOT
CLEARLY GOING TO MAKE--
CLEARLY GOING TO MAKE--
CERTAINLY NOT GOING TO MAKE OUR
CERTAINLY NOT GOING TO MAKE OUR
COMMUNITY SAFER AND HARDLY
COMMUNITY SAFER AND HARDLY
MAKING THEM MORE ABLE TO PAY THE
MAKING THEM MORE ABLE TO PAY THE
FINES AND FEES THEY OWE.
FINES AND FEES THEY OWE.
IF YOU CAN’T GET TO WORK WITH
IF YOU CAN’T GET TO WORK WITH
YOUR CAR HOW ARE YOU GOING TO
YOUR CAR HOW ARE YOU GOING TO
PAY WHAT YOU OWE?
PAY WHAT YOU OWE?
>> WITH MOST OF YOUR
>> WITH MOST OF YOUR
RECOMMENDATIONS, THERE’S A
RECOMMENDATIONS, THERE’S A
GENERAL SENSE THAT GOOD PEOPLE
GENERAL SENSE THAT GOOD PEOPLE
DON’T GET IN TROUBLE THAT PEOPLE
DON’T GET IN TROUBLE THAT PEOPLE
WHO FIND THEMSELVES IN JAIL HAVE
WHO FIND THEMSELVES IN JAIL HAVE
DONE SOMETHING TO DESERVE THEIR
DONE SOMETHING TO DESERVE THEIR
WAY THERE AND THE BEST WAY TO
WAY THERE AND THE BEST WAY TO
MOVE FORWARD, PEOPLE BEHAVE.
MOVE FORWARD, PEOPLE BEHAVE.
>> PART OF THAT IS THAT PEOPLE
>> PART OF THAT IS THAT PEOPLE
MAK MISTAKES, OUR SYSTEM MUST
MAK MISTAKES, OUR SYSTEM MUST
BE ONE THAT YOU ALLOW FOR THEM
BE ONE THAT YOU ALLOW FOR THEM
TO REHABILITATE FROM THAT
TO REHABILITATE FROM THAT
MISTAKE, BUT WE’RE PUNISHING
MISTAKE, BUT WE’RE PUNISHING
PEOPLE AND PUNISHING TOO MUCH.
PEOPLE AND PUNISHING TOO MUCH.
ONE OF THE SETS OF
ONE OF THE SETS OF
RECOMMENDATIONS HAS TO DO WITH
RECOMMENDATIONS HAS TO DO WITH
HOW WE’RE CLASSIFYING DIFFERENT
HOW WE’RE CLASSIFYING DIFFERENT
TYPES OF OFFENSES OF THE OUR
TYPES OF OFFENSES OF THE OUR
POPULATION HAS GONE UP, BUT THE
POPULATION HAS GONE UP, BUT THE
CRIME HAS GONE DOWN.
CRIME HAS GONE DOWN.
THAT MEANS THAT PEOPLE ARE
THAT MEANS THAT PEOPLE ARE
COMMITTING LESS CRIME.
COMMITTING LESS CRIME.
WE HAVE TO UNDERSTAND WHY ARE
WE HAVE TO UNDERSTAND WHY ARE
THEY PUT IN JAIL ANYWAY?
THEY PUT IN JAIL ANYWAY?
AND THESE REFORMS AND
AND THESE REFORMS AND
RECOMMENDATIONS ARE SEEKING TO
RECOMMENDATIONS ARE SEEKING TO
CHANGE THAT TREND.
CHANGE THAT TREND.
CAN WE INVEST IN COMMUNITIES?
CAN WE INVEST IN COMMUNITIES?
CAN WE INVESTIGATE IN BEHAVIORAL
CAN WE INVESTIGATE IN BEHAVIORAL
HEALTH?
HEALTH?
A SIGNIFICANT PORTION OF PEOPLE
A SIGNIFICANT PORTION OF PEOPLE
NEED TO INVEST IN VICTIMS
NEED TO INVEST IN VICTIMS
SERVICES AND WE CAN PROTECT THEM
SERVICES AND WE CAN PROTECT THEM
IN A BROADEST SENSE.
IN A BROADEST SENSE.
>> I WANT TO GET TO MENTAL
>> I WANT TO GET TO MENTAL
HEALTH.
HEALTH.
SOMEWHERE BETWEEN A FOURTH AND A
SOMEWHERE BETWEEN A FOURTH AND A
THIRD OF PEOPLE IN JAIL, I’M
THIRD OF PEOPLE IN JAIL, I’M
SHOCKED IT’S THAT LOW.
SHOCKED IT’S THAT LOW.
IT FEELS HIGHER.
IT FEELS HIGHER.
>> WELL TO BE CLEAR, THEY HAVE
>> WELL TO BE CLEAR, THEY HAVE
SERIOUS MENTAL--
SERIOUS MENTAL--
>> I THINK THE SHERIFFS WOULD
>> I THINK THE SHERIFFS WOULD
PUT THE NUMBER FAR HIGHER FOR
PUT THE NUMBER FAR HIGHER FOR
ANY MENTAL HEALTH.
ANY MENTAL HEALTH.
>> DEVIN: WHAT DO WE DO IN A
>> DEVIN: WHAT DO WE DO IN A
STATE THAT MANY PEOPLE BELIEVE
STATE THAT MANY PEOPLE BELIEVE
HAVE DECIMATED ITS WAY TO
HAVE DECIMATED ITS WAY TO
ADDRESS MENTAL HEALTH CARE
ADDRESS MENTAL HEALTH CARE
SYSTEMS?
SYSTEMS?
WE HAVE, AND I’VE TALKED THIS
WE HAVE, AND I’VE TALKED THIS
OVER WITH A NUMBER OF SHERIFFS
OVER WITH A NUMBER OF SHERIFFS
AND POLICE CHIEFS BEFORE, WE’VE
AND POLICE CHIEFS BEFORE, WE’VE
GOT A LOT OF FAMILIES HOPING
GOT A LOT OF FAMILIES HOPING
THEIR LOVED ONE GETS ARRESTED
THEIR LOVED ONE GETS ARRESTED
BECAUSE THEY BELIEVE THAT’S THE
BECAUSE THEY BELIEVE THAT’S THE
ONLY PLACE THEY CAN GET SOME
ONLY PLACE THEY CAN GET SOME
MENTAL HEALTH HELP.
MENTAL HEALTH HELP.
>> AND AS YOU KNOW, ONCE THEY’RE
>> AND AS YOU KNOW, ONCE THEY’RE
IN THE JAIL, AT LEAST THEY MAY
IN THE JAIL, AT LEAST THEY MAY
BE PROTECTED FROM WHATEVER HARM
BE PROTECTED FROM WHATEVER HARM
THEY WERE DOING BEFORE THEY WERE
THEY WERE DOING BEFORE THEY WERE
IN THE JAIL, BUT IT’S NOT
IN THE JAIL, BUT IT’S NOT
USUALLY A PLACE WHERE PEOPLE GET
USUALLY A PLACE WHERE PEOPLE GET
BETTER.
BETTER.
JAIL MIGHT BE A PLACE FOR
JAIL MIGHT BE A PLACE FOR
TEMPORARY SAFETY, NOT A PLACE
TEMPORARY SAFETY, NOT A PLACE
WHERE PEOPLE GET BETTER.
WHERE PEOPLE GET BETTER.
IN FACT, THERE’S A LOT OF DATA
IN FACT, THERE’S A LOT OF DATA
TO SUGGEST IT’S WHERE PEOPLE GET
TO SUGGEST IT’S WHERE PEOPLE GET
WORSE AND IN THE MEANTIME,
WORSE AND IN THE MEANTIME,
THEY’RE NOT NECESSARILY
THEY’RE NOT NECESSARILY
PERFECTLY SAFE IN THE JAIL AND
PERFECTLY SAFE IN THE JAIL AND
THE SHERIFFS AND THE SHERIFF’S
THE SHERIFFS AND THE SHERIFF’S
DEPUTIES ARE NOT SAFE BEING IN
DEPUTIES ARE NOT SAFE BEING IN
CHARGE OF IT.
CHARGE OF IT.
WE HAVE MADE SHERIFFS AND
WE HAVE MADE SHERIFFS AND
DEPUTIES THE FRONTLINE MENTAL
DEPUTIES THE FRONTLINE MENTAL
HEALTH WORKERS IN OUR
HEALTH WORKERS IN OUR
COMMUNITIES.
COMMUNITIES.
THAT’S NOT WHAT HE THIS--
THAT’S NOT WHAT HE THIS--
NOT WHAT THEY TRAINED FOR, NOT
NOT WHAT THEY TRAINED FOR, NOT
WHAT AT THE SIGNED UP FOR AND
WHAT AT THE SIGNED UP FOR AND
IT’S NOT FAIR FOR THEM.
IT’S NOT FAIR FOR THEM.
>> DEVIN: AND NOW WE HAVE TO
>> DEVIN: AND NOW WE HAVE TO
COALESCE AND SEE HOW THE STATE
COALESCE AND SEE HOW THE STATE
ADDRESSES THIS SHORTFALL.
ADDRESSES THIS SHORTFALL.
RECOMMENDATION--
RECOMMENDATION--
.
.
I WOULD DISAGREE WITH THAT
I WOULD DISAGREE WITH THAT
SLIGHTLY.
SLIGHTLY.
CRIMINAL JUSTICE REFORM HAS BEEN
CRIMINAL JUSTICE REFORM HAS BEEN
THE LARGEST AREA OF BIPARTISAN
THE LARGEST AREA OF BIPARTISAN
CONSENSUS IN MICHIGAN SINCE WE
CONSENSUS IN MICHIGAN SINCE WE
TOOK OFFICE.
TOOK OFFICE.
THE SPEAKER OF THE HOUSE AS YOU
THE SPEAKER OF THE HOUSE AS YOU
INDICATED HAS SAID THIS IS HIS
INDICATED HAS SAID THIS IS HIS
NUMBER ONE PRIORITY AND WE
NUMBER ONE PRIORITY AND WE
PASSED CRIMINAL JUSTICE REFORM
PASSED CRIMINAL JUSTICE REFORM
AND RAISED THE AGE SO 17 YEARS
AND RAISED THE AGE SO 17 YEARS
OLD WOULDN’T BE TREATED AS
OLD WOULDN’T BE TREATED AS
ADULTS.
ADULTS.
AND REFORMS FOR MEDICALLY FRAIL
AND REFORMS FOR MEDICALLY FRAIL
INDIVIDUALS AND WE WANT IT BUILD
INDIVIDUALS AND WE WANT IT BUILD
ON THAT MOMENTUM AND OUR TASK
ON THAT MOMENTUM AND OUR TASK
FORCE WAS DIVERSE, BIPARTISAN,
FORCE WAS DIVERSE, BIPARTISAN,
REPUBLICAN AND DEMOCRATIC
REPUBLICAN AND DEMOCRATIC
LEGISLATORS AND JUDGES,
LEGISLATORS AND JUDGES,
PROSECUTORS, SHERIFFS.
PROSECUTORS, SHERIFFS.
VICTIMS RIGHTS ADVOCATES,
VICTIMS RIGHTS ADVOCATES,
SURVIVORS OF CRIME, PEOPLE
SURVIVORS OF CRIME, PEOPLE
FORMERLY INCARCERATED THEMSELVES
FORMERLY INCARCERATED THEMSELVES
DIRECT LICHT.
DIRECT LICHT.
THIS DIVERSE GROUP OF PEOPLE
THIS DIVERSE GROUP OF PEOPLE
REACHED CONSENSUS THESE WERE THE
REACHED CONSENSUS THESE WERE THE
18 BEST WAYS TO IMPROVE THE
18 BEST WAYS TO IMPROVE THE
SYSTEM AND WE SHOULD BUILD ON
SYSTEM AND WE SHOULD BUILD ON
MOMENTUM WE STARTED IN 2019 TO
MOMENTUM WE STARTED IN 2019 TO
MAKE THESE REFORMS REAL IN 2020.
MAKE THESE REFORMS REAL IN 2020.
>> MENTAL HEALTH SERVICES CAN BE
>> MENTAL HEALTH SERVICES CAN BE
EXPENSIVE, I’M SURE THAT’S
EXPENSIVE, I’M SURE THAT’S
RIGHT.
RIGHT.
>> DEVIN: NO DOUBT ABOUT IT.
>> DEVIN: NO DOUBT ABOUT IT.
>>, BUT JAILS ARE EXPENSIVE,
>>, BUT JAILS ARE EXPENSIVE,
TOO.
TOO.
>> DEVIN: YES.
>> DEVIN: YES.
>> IF WE’RE NOT MAKING THEM
>> IF WE’RE NOT MAKING THEM
SAFER, THROWING GOOD MONEY AT
SAFER, THROWING GOOD MONEY AT
THEM IS NOT THE WAY.
THEM IS NOT THE WAY.
THE SPEAKER OF THE HOUSE SAID WE
THE SPEAKER OF THE HOUSE SAID WE
FUND OUR VALUES, IF MENTAL
FUND OUR VALUES, IF MENTAL
HEALTH SAFETY, A WAY TO TREAT
HEALTH SAFETY, A WAY TO TREAT
PEOPLE WITH MENTAL HEALTH
PEOPLE WITH MENTAL HEALTH
ILLNESS, I TRUST MY GOVERNMENT
ILLNESS, I TRUST MY GOVERNMENT
TO TAKE CARE OF IT.
TO TAKE CARE OF IT.
>> DEVIN: THIS WILL TRUST OUR
>> DEVIN: THIS WILL TRUST OUR
VALUES.
VALUES.
GENERALLY IN AMERICA IT STINKS
GENERALLY IN AMERICA IT STINKS
TO BE POOR.
TO BE POOR.
WHEN YOU HEAD TO JAIL, POVERTY
WHEN YOU HEAD TO JAIL, POVERTY
HAS A DIFFERENT INFLUENCE ON
HAS A DIFFERENT INFLUENCE ON
YOUR ABILITY TO PAY, BOND
YOUR ABILITY TO PAY, BOND
YOURSELF OUT, ON YOUR ABILITY TO
YOURSELF OUT, ON YOUR ABILITY TO
AFFORD REPRESENTATION.
AFFORD REPRESENTATION.
WHAT DID YOU FIND?
WHAT DID YOU FIND?
>> IN MICHIGAN, 50% OF OUR
>> IN MICHIGAN, 50% OF OUR
PEOPLE IN JAIL ARE THERE BECAUSE
PEOPLE IN JAIL ARE THERE BECAUSE
THEY CAN’T PAY A BOHN.
THEY CAN’T PAY A BOHN.
THEY’RE PRETRIAL.
THEY’RE PRETRIAL.
THEY HAVEN’T BEEN CONVICTED OF
THEY HAVEN’T BEEN CONVICTED OF
ANYTHING, THEY’RE PRESUMED
ANYTHING, THEY’RE PRESUMED
INNOCENT AND OF COURSE, IT’S THE
INNOCENT AND OF COURSE, IT’S THE
CASE AT THAT SOME OF THOSE FOLKS
CASE AT THAT SOME OF THOSE FOLKS
POSE A THREAT TO PUBLIC SAFETY
POSE A THREAT TO PUBLIC SAFETY
AND JUDGES HAVE TO RETAIN THE
AND JUDGES HAVE TO RETAIN THE
DISCRETION TO MAKE SURE THE
DISCRETION TO MAKE SURE THE
COMMUNITY IS SAFE WHEN SOMEONE
COMMUNITY IS SAFE WHEN SOMEONE
DOES POSE THAT KIND OF THREAT,
DOES POSE THAT KIND OF THREAT,
BUT FOR PEOPLE WHO LITERALLY
BUT FOR PEOPLE WHO LITERALLY
CAN’T PAY A $200 BOND OR $100
CAN’T PAY A $200 BOND OR $100
BOND ON A DRIVING OFFENSE.
BOND ON A DRIVING OFFENSE.
>> DEVIN: SPENDING TIME IN JAIL
>> DEVIN: SPENDING TIME IN JAIL
FOR THAT SEEMS ONEROUS.
FOR THAT SEEMS ONEROUS.
>> ONEROUS FOR THEM AND NOT BET
>> ONEROUS FOR THEM AND NOT BET
ARE FOR THE REST OF US.
ARE FOR THE REST OF US.
YOU MIGHT WANT THEM WORKING TO
YOU MIGHT WANT THEM WORKING TO
PAY CHILD SUPPORT AND THINGS TO
PAY CHILD SUPPORT AND THINGS TO
SOCIETY.
SOCIETY.
IT’S NOT A BETTER SYSTEM FOR
IT’S NOT A BETTER SYSTEM FOR
ANYBODY.
ANYBODY.
>> DEVIN: YOU SPENT A LOT OF
>> DEVIN: YOU SPENT A LOT OF
TIME TALKING ABOUT THE FIRST 24
TIME TALKING ABOUT THE FIRST 24
HOURS AFTER ARREST.
HOURS AFTER ARREST.
WHY IS THAT CRITICAL?
WHY IS THAT CRITICAL?
>> PART OF THAT WAS BECAUSE WHEN
>> PART OF THAT WAS BECAUSE WHEN
WE LOOKED AT THE DATA AND WE
WE LOOKED AT THE DATA AND WE
FOUND THE DATA, I WANT TO PUT A
FOUND THE DATA, I WANT TO PUT A
SHOUT OUT TO THE PEW TRUST, FOR
SHOUT OUT TO THE PEW TRUST, FOR
THE DATA ANALYSIS AND TASK
THE DATA ANALYSIS AND TASK
FORCEMENT WE FOUND MANY JAIL
FORCEMENT WE FOUND MANY JAIL
EMISSIONS ARE FOR VERY, VERY,
EMISSIONS ARE FOR VERY, VERY,
VERY SORT JAIL STAYS AND WITH A
VERY SORT JAIL STAYS AND WITH A
SIGNIFICANT PART OF THE JAIL
SIGNIFICANT PART OF THE JAIL
POPULATION THERE PRE-TRIAL.
POPULATION THERE PRE-TRIAL.
WE WANT PEOPLE TO HAVE A RIGHT
WE WANT PEOPLE TO HAVE A RIGHT
TO A SPEEDY TRIAL AND PUSH THE
TO A SPEEDY TRIAL AND PUSH THE
SYSTEM TO BE IN FRONT OF A
SYSTEM TO BE IN FRONT OF A
JUDGE, THEY CAN HAVE THEIR
JUDGE, THEY CAN HAVE THEIR
CHARGES ACTUALLY HEARD AND
CHARGES ACTUALLY HEARD AND
ARGUED QUICKLY BECAUSE BEING IN
ARGUED QUICKLY BECAUSE BEING IN
JAIL IS DISRUPTIVE TO THE
JAIL IS DISRUPTIVE TO THE
COMMUNITY.
COMMUNITY.
IT’S DISRUPTIVE TO THE
IT’S DISRUPTIVE TO THE
INDIVIDUAL PERSON WHO MAY BE IN
INDIVIDUAL PERSON WHO MAY BE IN
JAIL, BUT DISRUPTIVE TO THE
JAIL, BUT DISRUPTIVE TO THE
COMMUNITY.
COMMUNITY.
IT’S DISRUPTIVE TO WORKPLACES.
IT’S DISRUPTIVE TO WORKPLACES.
IT’S DISRUPTIVE TO FAMILIES.
IT’S DISRUPTIVE TO FAMILIES.
WE WANT TO MAKE SURE WE’RE
WE WANT TO MAKE SURE WE’RE
HANDLING THAT JUDICIOUSLY AND
HANDLING THAT JUDICIOUSLY AND
COMMUNITIES CAN HEAL AND GET
COMMUNITIES CAN HEAL AND GET
BETTER.
BETTER.
>> DEVIN: AND SIMILARLY, THAT’S
>> DEVIN: AND SIMILARLY, THAT’S
THE REASON--
THE REASON--
OR SUGGESTING THE I WITH A YOU
OR SUGGESTING THE I WITH A YOU
REFORM PROBATION AND PAROLE.
REFORM PROBATION AND PAROLE.
>> PEOPLE ON PROBATION AND
>> PEOPLE ON PROBATION AND
PAROLE ARE ALSO SHOWING UP IN
PAROLE ARE ALSO SHOWING UP IN
OUR JAILS IN NUMBERS THAT SEEM
OUR JAILS IN NUMBERS THAT SEEM
WORTH OUR PAYING SOME ATTENTION
WORTH OUR PAYING SOME ATTENTION
TO.
TO.
ESPECIALLY WHEN THE VIOLATIONS
ESPECIALLY WHEN THE VIOLATIONS
ARE TECHNICAL THINGS.
ARE TECHNICAL THINGS.
THEY DIDN’T CALL IN ON TIME OR
THEY DIDN’T CALL IN ON TIME OR
THEY DIDN’T--
THEY DIDN’T--
THEY SHOWED UP A DAY LATE.
THEY SHOWED UP A DAY LATE.
SAFER TO PUT THAT PERSON BACK IN
SAFER TO PUT THAT PERSON BACK IN
JAIL FOR A TECHNICAL VIOLATION
JAIL FOR A TECHNICAL VIOLATION
INSTEAD OF SOME OTHER KIND OF
INSTEAD OF SOME OTHER KIND OF
INTERVENTION THAT WOULD ALLOW
INTERVENTION THAT WOULD ALLOW
THEM TO KEEP CONTRIBUTING.
THEM TO KEEP CONTRIBUTING.
>> DEVIN: THE LAST THING I WANT
>> DEVIN: THE LAST THING I WANT
TO LET YOU BOTH ADDRESS, THIS IS
TO LET YOU BOTH ADDRESS, THIS IS
BIGGER THAN THE JAIL PART.
BIGGER THAN THE JAIL PART.
THIS IS THE WHOLE JEKSS SYSTEM.
THIS IS THE WHOLE JEKSS SYSTEM.
THAT IS WE SEEM TO BE UNABLE TO
THAT IS WE SEEM TO BE UNABLE TO
DECIDE WHAT WE WANT IT ALL TO
DECIDE WHAT WE WANT IT ALL TO
BE.
BE.
IS IT SUPPOSED TO BE A PLACE TO
IS IT SUPPOSED TO BE A PLACE TO
SEPARATE BAD PEOPLE FROM GOOD
SEPARATE BAD PEOPLE FROM GOOD
PEOPLE AND WAREHOUSE PEOPLE OR
PEOPLE AND WAREHOUSE PEOPLE OR
IS IT SUPPOSED TO BE A
IS IT SUPPOSED TO BE A
REHABILITATOR.
REHABILITATOR.
A CHANCE TO COME BACK.
A CHANCE TO COME BACK.
I THINK THAT SOME PEOPLE ARGUE
I THINK THAT SOME PEOPLE ARGUE
WE DON’T DO ANY ONE OF THOSE
WE DON’T DO ANY ONE OF THOSE
THINGS.
THINGS.
WE’RE SORT OF THIS WEIRD
WE’RE SORT OF THIS WEIRD
AMALGAMATION OF THIS BIG
AMALGAMATION OF THIS BIG
CORPORATE SYSTEM, THE INDUSTRIAL
CORPORATE SYSTEM, THE INDUSTRIAL
PRISON COMPLEX THAT REALLY
PRISON COMPLEX THAT REALLY
DOESN’T DO SOCIETY--
DOESN’T DO SOCIETY--
IT DOESN’T SERVE SOCIETY IN
IT DOESN’T SERVE SOCIETY IN
EITHER WAY?
EITHER WAY?
>> SURE.
>> SURE.
I THINK THAT WE NEED TO USE ALL
I THINK THAT WE NEED TO USE ALL
OF THE TOOLS OF OUR JUSTICE
OF THE TOOLS OF OUR JUSTICE
DEPARTMENT, THE WAY THAT OUR
DEPARTMENT, THE WAY THAT OUR
COUNTY JAIL SYSTEMS ARE WORKING
COUNTY JAIL SYSTEMS ARE WORKING
RIGHT NOW ARE NOT DOING THAT.
RIGHT NOW ARE NOT DOING THAT.
RESOURCES ARE DIVERTED TO COUNTY
RESOURCES ARE DIVERTED TO COUNTY
JAIL INSTEAD OF MENTAL AND
JAIL INSTEAD OF MENTAL AND
BEHAVIORAL HEALTH SERVICES AN
BEHAVIORAL HEALTH SERVICES AN
AND SUBSTANCE ABUSE SYSTEMS.
AND SUBSTANCE ABUSE SYSTEMS.
WE’RE LOCKING THEM UP BECAUSE
WE’RE LOCKING THEM UP BECAUSE
THEY DON’T HAVE MONEY, BUT IF WE
THEY DON’T HAVE MONEY, BUT IF WE
CHANGE THESE SYSTEMS THE WAYS WE
CHANGE THESE SYSTEMS THE WAYS WE
SUGGESTED.
SUGGESTED.
WE’LL HAVE THEM ON A PATH,
WE’LL HAVE THEM ON A PATH,
PROTECTING PUBLIC SAFETY AND
PROTECTING PUBLIC SAFETY AND
HELPS PEOPLE GET THE RESOURCES
HELPS PEOPLE GET THE RESOURCES
AND THE SUPPORT AND HELP THAT
AND THE SUPPORT AND HELP THAT
THEY NEED TO BE SUCCESSFUL, BUT
THEY NEED TO BE SUCCESSFUL, BUT
HELPS COMMUNITIES BE STRONGER,
HELPS COMMUNITIES BE STRONGER,
MORE VIBRANT AND SAFER.
MORE VIBRANT AND SAFER.
>> FIRST YEAR CRIMINAL LAW THIS
>> FIRST YEAR CRIMINAL LAW THIS
IS WHAT WE TALK ABOUT FOR AN
IS WHAT WE TALK ABOUT FOR AN
ENTIRE WEEK, WHAT IS THE PURPOSE
ENTIRE WEEK, WHAT IS THE PURPOSE
OF PUNISHMENT AND I THINK THE
OF PUNISHMENT AND I THINK THE
ANSWER IS ALL OF THE ABOVE, BUT
ANSWER IS ALL OF THE ABOVE, BUT
YOU’RE CORRECT WE’RE NOT
YOU’RE CORRECT WE’RE NOT
NECESSARILY NAILING ANY OF
NECESSARILY NAILING ANY OF
THOSE, RIGHT?
THOSE, RIGHT?
IF THEY HAVE THE ABILITY TO
IF THEY HAVE THE ABILITY TO
REHABILITATE SOMEONE SO THEY
REHABILITATE SOMEONE SO THEY
DON’T COMMIT A FUTURE CRIME,
DON’T COMMIT A FUTURE CRIME,
THAT MAKES OUR COMMUNITY SAFER
THAT MAKES OUR COMMUNITY SAFER
AND IT ALSO IS CONSISTENT WITH
AND IT ALSO IS CONSISTENT WITH
OUR VALUES.
OUR VALUES.
THERE ARE NO THROW AWAY PEOPLE.
THERE ARE NO THROW AWAY PEOPLE.
MY FRIEND, FORMER SPEAKER CRAIG
MY FRIEND, FORMER SPEAKER CRAIG
DEROCHE LIKES TO SAY AND THAT’S
DEROCHE LIKES TO SAY AND THAT’S
WHO WE ARE.
WHO WE ARE.
AND SO, DIVERSION WORKS,
AND SO, DIVERSION WORKS,
DEFLECTION WORKS, IF WE CAN MAKE
DEFLECTION WORKS, IF WE CAN MAKE
PEOPLE SAFER, OUR COMMUNITIES
PEOPLE SAFER, OUR COMMUNITIES
SAFER BY REHABILITATING PEOPLE,
SAFER BY REHABILITATING PEOPLE,
WE SHOULD DO IT.
WE SHOULD DO IT.
>> IT’S A MASSIVE ISSUE AND I
>> IT’S A MASSIVE ISSUE AND I
APPRECIATE THE WORK YOU’VE DONE
APPRECIATE THE WORK YOU’VE DONE
AND REALLY APPRECIATE BOTH OF
AND REALLY APPRECIATE BOTH OF
YOU TO BE HERE THIS MORNING TO
YOU TO BE HERE THIS MORNING TO
TALK ABOUT IT.
TALK ABOUT IT.
>> THANK YOU FOR HAVING US.
>> THANK YOU FOR HAVING US.
>> WE’LL TALK ABOUT THE PROBLEMS
>> WE’LL TALK ABOUT THE PROBLEMS
PLAGUING MICHIGAN, THIS IS FLASH
PLAGUING MICHIGAN, THIS IS FLASH
POINT ON LOCAL 4.
When your psoriasis is bad,
it can be hard to
see what‘s possible.
But the possibilities
become clear with Taltz.
The first and only
treatment of its kind
offering a chance
at 100% clear skin.
With Taltz,
up to 90%
of those
with moderate
to severe
psoriasis
saw a significant
improvement of
their psoriasis
plaques.
Some even
saw 100%
clear skin.
Don‘t use if you‘re
allergic to Taltz.
Before starting,
get checked for
tuberculosis.
Increased risk
of infections
and lower ability to
fight them may occur.
Tell your doctor about
infections, symptoms,
or if inflammatory bowel disease
symptoms develop, worsen
or if you‘ve had a
vaccine or plan to.
Serious allergic
reactions can occur.
See the possibilities.
Ask your doctor about Taltz.
>>  WE HAD DEVOTED QUITE A BIT
>>  WE HAD DEVOTED QUITE A BIT
OF TIME ON THIS PROGRAM SO FAR
OF TIME ON THIS PROGRAM SO FAR
IN 2020 TO THE LONG LIST OF
IN 2020 TO THE LONG LIST OF
DEEPLY WORRISOME ENVIRONMENTAL
DEEPLY WORRISOME ENVIRONMENTAL
PRODUCTS, CROPPING UP LIKE
PRODUCTS, CROPPING UP LIKE
DANDELIONS ALL OVER THE PLACE.
DANDELIONS ALL OVER THE PLACE.
THE NEAR SINGULAR FOCUS FOR TWO
THE NEAR SINGULAR FOCUS FOR TWO
OF MY COLLEAGUES, KAREN DREW AND
OF MY COLLEAGUES, KAREN DREW AND
HANK WINCHESTER.
HANK WINCHESTER.
THEY’RE HERE TO GIVE US AN
THEY’RE HERE TO GIVE US AN
INSIGHT, WHAT’S HAPPENING BEHIND
INSIGHT, WHAT’S HAPPENING BEHIND
THE SCENES TO ADDRESS THE
THE SCENES TO ADDRESS THE
PROBLEMS AND THE FACT THAT
PROBLEMS AND THE FACT THAT
THEY’RE SO GLARING BECAUSE IT
THEY’RE SO GLARING BECAUSE IT
TOOK SOME VERY FORTUNE
TOOK SOME VERY FORTUNE
FORTUNATE, I GUESS YOU’D SAY,
FORTUNATE, I GUESS YOU’D SAY,
PUBLIC REVIEW OF THEM TO WHAT’S
PUBLIC REVIEW OF THEM TO WHAT’S
HAPPENING HERE.
HAPPENING HERE.
KAREN, YOU’VE BEEN DEVOTING YOUR
KAREN, YOU’VE BEEN DEVOTING YOUR
TIME DOWN RIVER WITH DETROIT
TIME DOWN RIVER WITH DETROIT
BULK STORAGE AND HANK, YOUR TIME
BULK STORAGE AND HANK, YOUR TIME
ON THE GREEN OOZE ON 696.
ON THE GREEN OOZE ON 696.
LET ME START WITH YOU, KAREN.
LET ME START WITH YOU, KAREN.
WE’VE GOT THE CITY NOW TRYING TO
WE’VE GOT THE CITY NOW TRYING TO
TAKE LEGAL ACTION ON IT, BUT IT
TAKE LEGAL ACTION ON IT, BUT IT
SEEMS TO ME THAT THERE’S A VERY
SEEMS TO ME THAT THERE’S A VERY
LARGE DISCONNECT FOR BOTH OF YOU
LARGE DISCONNECT FOR BOTH OF YOU
OVER WHO IS IN CHARGE AND WHERE
OVER WHO IS IN CHARGE AND WHERE
THE AUTHORITY LIES TO FIX IT?
THE AUTHORITY LIES TO FIX IT?
>> THAT’S WELL-SAID.
>> THAT’S WELL-SAID.
BECAUSE RIGHT WHEN THIS DOCK
BECAUSE RIGHT WHEN THIS DOCK
COLLAPSED AND THAT SENDMENT
COLLAPSED AND THAT SENDMENT
STARTED SPILLING INTO THE RIVER
STARTED SPILLING INTO THE RIVER
AND THIS IS RIGHT AROUND
AND THIS IS RIGHT AROUND
THANKSGIVING WEEKEND, THERE WAS
THANKSGIVING WEEKEND, THERE WAS
FIRST NO COMMUNICATION THAT IT
FIRST NO COMMUNICATION THAT IT
OCCURRED AND ONCE IT DID OCCUR,
OCCURRED AND ONCE IT DID OCCUR,
THERE WAS NO LINE OF THIS GOES
THERE WAS NO LINE OF THIS GOES
TO THIS DEPARTMENT, THIS GOES TO
TO THIS DEPARTMENT, THIS GOES TO
THIS DEPARTMENT.
THIS DEPARTMENT.
SO THERE’S JUST SOME FINGER
SO THERE’S JUST SOME FINGER
POINTING, NO COMMUNICATION.
POINTING, NO COMMUNICATION.
EGLE, YES, CHECKS IT OUT, BUT
EGLE, YES, CHECKS IT OUT, BUT
THEY DON’T HAVE ANY TEETH TO
THEY DON’T HAVE ANY TEETH TO
QUOTE, SHUT THE PLACE DOWN AND
QUOTE, SHUT THE PLACE DOWN AND
THEN WE UNCOVER THIS OPERATION
THEN WE UNCOVER THIS OPERATION
IS WITHOUT A PERMIT AND WASN’T
IS WITHOUT A PERMIT AND WASN’T
ON THE RADAR.
ON THE RADAR.
>> AND ONLY ONE OF THE
>> AND ONLY ONE OF THE
BUSINESSES ON THE RIVER
BUSINESSES ON THE RIVER
OPERATING WITHOUT A CITY PERMIT.
OPERATING WITHOUT A CITY PERMIT.
>> THAT LED US TO SAY, IF THIS
>> THAT LED US TO SAY, IF THIS
IS ONE COMPANY LET’S CHECK.
IS ONE COMPANY LET’S CHECK.
WE FOUND A WHOLE OTHER PILE OF
WE FOUND A WHOLE OTHER PILE OF
AGGREGATE FOR MATERIAL USED TO
AGGREGATE FOR MATERIAL USED TO
MAKE GRAVEL AT ANOTHER COMPANY
MAKE GRAVEL AT ANOTHER COMPANY
AND THE CITY GOES, OH, YEAH,
AND THE CITY GOES, OH, YEAH,
THEY DON’T HAVE A PERMIT.
THEY DON’T HAVE A PERMIT.
IF THEY DON’T HAVE A PERMIT AND
IF THEY DON’T HAVE A PERMIT AND
ARE THEY PAYING THEIR BILLS?
ARE THEY PAYING THEIR BILLS?
THEY WEREN’T PAYING THEIR
THEY WEREN’T PAYING THEIR
DRAINAGE BILL.
DRAINAGE BILL.
ALL OF THESE UNPAID BILLS AND
ALL OF THESE UNPAID BILLS AND
UNPAID PERMITS MEANS LESS MONEY
UNPAID PERMITS MEANS LESS MONEY
FOR TAXPAYERS AND ALSO NO
FOR TAXPAYERS AND ALSO NO
ENFORCEMENT WHAT’S GOING ON
ENFORCEMENT WHAT’S GOING ON
ALONG OUR RIVERFRONT.
ALONG OUR RIVERFRONT.
THIS IS AN INTERNATIONAL
THIS IS AN INTERNATIONAL
WATERWAY.
WATERWAY.
>> DEVIN: HANK, 696, THE ISSUE I
>> DEVIN: HANK, 696, THE ISSUE I
COME BACK IT TIME AND TIME
COME BACK IT TIME AND TIME
AGAIN, IT KIND OF BOGGLES MY
AGAIN, IT KIND OF BOGGLES MY
MIND I’VE MENTIONED ON THIS
MIND I’VE MENTIONED ON THIS
PROGRAM, THE WHEN THE GUY WHO
PROGRAM, THE WHEN THE GUY WHO
OWNED THE COMPANY WAS FINED--
OWNED THE COMPANY WAS FINED--
AS HE WAS BEING SENTENCED, HE
AS HE WAS BEING SENTENCED, HE
COMPLAINED IN COURT BITTERLY HOW
COMPLAINED IN COURT BITTERLY HOW
REGULATIONS WERE KILLING HIS
REGULATIONS WERE KILLING HIS
BUSINESS WHEN HE CLEARLY HADN’T
BUSINESS WHEN HE CLEARLY HADN’T
BEEN FOLLOWING THEM ANYWAY.
BEEN FOLLOWING THEM ANYWAY.
>> YEAH, I MEAN, CLEARLY, THIS
>> YEAH, I MEAN, CLEARLY, THIS
IS A GUY WHO HAS A LOT OF
IS A GUY WHO HAS A LOT OF
PROBLEMS.
PROBLEMS.
YOU TALK TO PEOPLE THAT IN GARY
YOU TALK TO PEOPLE THAT IN GARY
SAYERS, HE WAS A HOARDER, HAD
SAYERS, HE WAS A HOARDER, HAD
BEEN INVESTIGATED BY LEADERS,
BEEN INVESTIGATED BY LEADERS,
STATE, LOCAL, FOR ALMOST 30
STATE, LOCAL, FOR ALMOST 30
YEARS, NOTHING BEEN DONE, A SLAP
YEARS, NOTHING BEEN DONE, A SLAP
ON THE WRIST.
ON THE WRIST.
TO KAREN’S POINT, THIS IS AN
TO KAREN’S POINT, THIS IS AN
IMPORTANT DIMENSION IN BOTH OF
IMPORTANT DIMENSION IN BOTH OF
THESE STORIES.
THESE STORIES.
I KEEP THINKING BACK TO FLINT.
I KEEP THINKING BACK TO FLINT.
YOU KNOW.
YOU KNOW.
>> DEVIN: YES.
>> DEVIN: YES.
>> COMMUNICATION WAS KEY.
>> COMMUNICATION WAS KEY.
COMMUNICATION IS WHAT CAUSED THE
COMMUNICATION IS WHAT CAUSED THE
DISASTER THERE, AT LEAST FROM
DISASTER THERE, AT LEAST FROM
THE PUBLIC STANDPOINT OF NOT
THE PUBLIC STANDPOINT OF NOT
GETTING THE INFORMATION.
GETTING THE INFORMATION.
HERE WE ARE A FEW YEARS LATER
HERE WE ARE A FEW YEARS LATER
AND YOU THINK WE WOULD HAVE
AND YOU THINK WE WOULD HAVE
LEARNED A LESSON AT LEAST WE
LEARNED A LESSON AT LEAST WE
SHOULD BE REACHING OUT TO THE
SHOULD BE REACHING OUT TO THE
PEOPLE.
PEOPLE.
YOU TALK TO THOSE PEOPLE IN
YOU TALK TO THOSE PEOPLE IN
MADISON HEIGHTS AND BUSINESS
MADISON HEIGHTS AND BUSINESS
OWNERS RIGHT ACROSS THE STREET,
OWNERS RIGHT ACROSS THE STREET,
HOMES A FEW BLOCKS AWAY.
HOMES A FEW BLOCKS AWAY.
TO THIS DAY THEY’VE NOT HEARD
TO THIS DAY THEY’VE NOT HEARD
ONE PEEP FROM THE STATE, NOT ONE
ONE PEEP FROM THE STATE, NOT ONE
PEEP FROM THE EPA, AND WE’RE ON
PEEP FROM THE EPA, AND WE’RE ON
THE NEWS EVERY DAY TALKING ABOUT
THE NEWS EVERY DAY TALKING ABOUT
A POTENTIAL TOXIC DUMP WITHIN
A POTENTIAL TOXIC DUMP WITHIN
ARM’S REACH.
ARM’S REACH.
I MEAN, I JUST DON’T UNDERSTAND
I MEAN, I JUST DON’T UNDERSTAND
HOW THE STATE AGAIN IS DROPPING
HOW THE STATE AGAIN IS DROPPING
THE BALL THIS WAY.
THE BALL THIS WAY.
>> TO YOUR POINT OF
>> TO YOUR POINT OF
COMMUNICATION, WHEN IT ALL
COMMUNICATION, WHEN IT ALL
SPILLED INTO THE RIVER.
SPILLED INTO THE RIVER.
CITY COUNCIL DIDN’T EVEN KNOW
CITY COUNCIL DIDN’T EVEN KNOW
ABOUT IT BECAUSE THE ARMY CORPS
ABOUT IT BECAUSE THE ARMY CORPS
OF ENGINEERS FOUND OUT AND NO
OF ENGINEERS FOUND OUT AND NO
COMMUNICATION.
COMMUNICATION.
THEY FOUND OUT ABOUT IT FROM
THEY FOUND OUT ABOUT IT FROM
SOME NEWS PEOPLE, FROM SOME
SOME NEWS PEOPLE, FROM SOME
ADVOCATES.
ADVOCATES.
>> ON BOTH OF THE STORIES, THESE
>> ON BOTH OF THE STORIES, THESE
ARE JUST TWO AS WE DISCUSSED
ARE JUST TWO AS WE DISCUSSED
LAST WEEK WITH LOUISE FROM EGLE
LAST WEEK WITH LOUISE FROM EGLE
ABOUT THE THOUSANDS OF SITES
ABOUT THE THOUSANDS OF SITES
THEY’RE TRYING TO CATALOG ALL
THEY’RE TRYING TO CATALOG ALL
OVER THE STATE.
OVER THE STATE.
THESE ARE JUST TWO OF THEM.
THESE ARE JUST TWO OF THEM.
IN BOTH OF THESE THEY’VE BEEN
IN BOTH OF THESE THEY’VE BEEN
DOING TESTING ON BOTH SITES AND
DOING TESTING ON BOTH SITES AND
TRYING TO PUT US AT EASE THAT
TRYING TO PUT US AT EASE THAT
THERE’S NOT A PROBLEM HERE
THERE’S NOT A PROBLEM HERE
THAT’S ANY BIGGER, BUT YES, THE
THAT’S ANY BIGGER, BUT YES, THE
SAME IN FLINT.
SAME IN FLINT.
HOW LONG IS IT GOING TO BE
HOW LONG IS IT GOING TO BE
BEFORE ANYBODY BELIEVES WHAT IS
BEFORE ANYBODY BELIEVES WHAT IS
TOLD ABOUT THE TESTING AND NOW
TOLD ABOUT THE TESTING AND NOW
THERE HAVE BEEN QUESTIONS IN
THERE HAVE BEEN QUESTIONS IN
BTH OF YOUR STORIES ABOUT THE
BTH OF YOUR STORIES ABOUT THE
WAY THE TESTING HAS BEEN DONE.
WAY THE TESTING HAS BEEN DONE.
>> THAT’S RIGHT, BECAUSE THE EPA
>> THAT’S RIGHT, BECAUSE THE EPA
IS GOING ALONG OUR SITE ON THE
IS GOING ALONG OUR SITE ON THE
RIVER FRONT MONDAY MORNING,
RIVER FRONT MONDAY MORNING,
OKAY, WE’RE GOING TO CHECK ALL
OKAY, WE’RE GOING TO CHECK ALL
OVER FOR RADIATION.
OVER FOR RADIATION.
NOW WE’LL LOOK FOR BASEMENTS
NOW WE’LL LOOK FOR BASEMENTS
BECAUSE AS WE REPORTED THIS IS
BECAUSE AS WE REPORTED THIS IS
THE LOCATION WHERE THEY ACTUALLY
THE LOCATION WHERE THEY ACTUALLY
PUT URANIUM RODS TOGETHER IN
PUT URANIUM RODS TOGETHER IN
HOPES OF ASSEMBLY THE ATOMIC
HOPES OF ASSEMBLY THE ATOMIC
BOMB.
BOMB.
ALL RIGHT, NOW WE’RE GOING TO
ALL RIGHT, NOW WE’RE GOING TO
TEST DEEPER INTO THAT GREEN
TEST DEEPER INTO THAT GREEN
SINKHOLE.
SINKHOLE.
AND NOW--
AND NOW--
>> THAT’S THE PART WE HAVEN’T
>> THAT’S THE PART WE HAVEN’T
MENTIONED DEVELOPED AFTER THE
MENTIONED DEVELOPED AFTER THE
COLLAPSE, THE SINKHOLE BEHIND
COLLAPSE, THE SINKHOLE BEHIND
IT.
IT.
>> EIGHT BEING,NINE WEEKS LATER
>> EIGHT BEING,NINE WEEKS LATER
AND DOING MORE TESTING.
AND DOING MORE TESTING.
IT FEELS LIKE WHY WASN’T THIS
IT FEELS LIKE WHY WASN’T THIS
DONE EARLIER?
DONE EARLIER?
WHY WASN’T THERE A PLAN IN
WHY WASN’T THERE A PLAN IN
PLACE?
PLACE?
>> ON THE GREEN OOZE, WE’VE BEEN
>> ON THE GREEN OOZE, WE’VE BEEN
TOLD--
TOLD--
RESIDENTS HAVE BEEN TOLD WHILE
RESIDENTS HAVE BEEN TOLD WHILE
IT MAY MAKE IT TO THE LAKE, LAKE
IT MAY MAKE IT TO THE LAKE, LAKE
ST. CLAIR, BY THE TIME IT GOT
ST. CLAIR, BY THE TIME IT GOT
THERE, IT WOULDN’T BE A PROBLEM.
THERE, IT WOULDN’T BE A PROBLEM.
CANDICE MILLER’S WAY IS DILUTION
CANDICE MILLER’S WAY IS DILUTION
IS NOT A SOLUTION.
IS NOT A SOLUTION.
>> OF COURSE NOT.
>> OF COURSE NOT.
WE GO BACK TO FLINT.
WE GO BACK TO FLINT.
WATER IS ONE OF OUR VALUABLE
WATER IS ONE OF OUR VALUABLE
NATURAL RESOURCES, THE MINUTE
NATURAL RESOURCES, THE MINUTE
THEY DISCOVERED THIS PROBLEM
THEY DISCOVERED THIS PROBLEM
WHICH WAS TOWARDS THE END OF
WHICH WAS TOWARDS THE END OF
DECEMBER, TESTING SHOULD HAVE
DECEMBER, TESTING SHOULD HAVE
BEEN DONE THAT DAY AND
BEEN DONE THAT DAY AND
INFORMATION GOTTEN TO PEOPLE
INFORMATION GOTTEN TO PEOPLE
IMMEDIATELY.
IMMEDIATELY.
YOU CAN EXPEDITE A TEST AND GET
YOU CAN EXPEDITE A TEST AND GET
IT IN FIVE TO 10 DAYS.
IT IN FIVE TO 10 DAYS.
THE FACT IT HAPPENED THE END OF
THE FACT IT HAPPENED THE END OF
DECEMBER AND THE FIRST TIME
DECEMBER AND THE FIRST TIME
THERE’S A TOWN HALL OR PUBLIC
THERE’S A TOWN HALL OR PUBLIC
MEETING ABOUT THIS ISN’T UNTIL
MEETING ABOUT THIS ISN’T UNTIL
FEBRUARY.
FEBRUARY.
THAT MAKES ABSOLUTELY NO SENSE
THAT MAKES ABSOLUTELY NO SENSE
TO ME, IT MAKES NO SENSE.
TO ME, IT MAKES NO SENSE.
THE OTHER DISCONNECT THAT EXISTS
THE OTHER DISCONNECT THAT EXISTS
HERE SEEMS TO BE BETWEEN THE
HERE SEEMS TO BE BETWEEN THE
ATTORNEY GENERAL’S OFFICE AND
ATTORNEY GENERAL’S OFFICE AND
EGLE, AND WHO THE ATTORNEY
EGLE, AND WHO THE ATTORNEY
GENERAL, DANA NESSEL SEEMED TO
GENERAL, DANA NESSEL SEEMED TO
SUGGEST WE’RE WAITING FOR EGLE
SUGGEST WE’RE WAITING FOR EGLE
TO GIVE US MARCHING ORDERS AND
TO GIVE US MARCHING ORDERS AND
EGLE SAYS THE--
EGLE SAYS THE--
THERE SEEMS TO BE A LACK OF HOW
THERE SEEMS TO BE A LACK OF HOW
THE CHAIN OF COMMAND WORKS HERE
THE CHAIN OF COMMAND WORKS HERE
AND WHO IS TRULY CALLING THE
AND WHO IS TRULY CALLING THE
SHOTS.
SHOTS.
>> VERY GOOD POINT.
>> VERY GOOD POINT.
IT SEEMS LIKE EGLE WANTS TO
IT SEEMS LIKE EGLE WANTS TO
CRACK DOWN AND DON’T HAVE THE
CRACK DOWN AND DON’T HAVE THE
ENFORCEMENT AND THEY DON’T HAVE
ENFORCEMENT AND THEY DON’T HAVE
ENOUGH PEOPLE ON STAFF AT ALL.
ENOUGH PEOPLE ON STAFF AT ALL.
IN PREFERENCE TO THE CITY--
IN PREFERENCE TO THE CITY--
>> THEY EMPLOY OVER 1,000 PEOPLE
>> THEY EMPLOY OVER 1,000 PEOPLE
AND IT’S NOT ENOUGH GIVEN THE
AND IT’S NOT ENOUGH GIVEN THE
SIZE OF THE PROBLEM WE’RE
SIZE OF THE PROBLEM WE’RE
TALKING ABOUT.
TALKING ABOUT.
>> THAT’S PART OF THE PROBLEM,
>> THAT’S PART OF THE PROBLEM,
THEY DON’T HAVE THE INSPECTOR ON
THEY DON’T HAVE THE INSPECTOR ON
A LOCAL LEVEL BECAUSE OF THE
A LOCAL LEVEL BECAUSE OF THE
DETROIT RIVER AND PERMITS, THEY
DETROIT RIVER AND PERMITS, THEY
HAVE 10 INSPECTORS AND SOME
HAVE 10 INSPECTORS AND SOME
15,000 PLACES TO INSPECT.
15,000 PLACES TO INSPECT.
SO THEY DON’T HAVE THE PEOPLE,
SO THEY DON’T HAVE THE PEOPLE,
SO THEN THAT’S HOW IT CALL GETS
SO THEN THAT’S HOW IT CALL GETS
BACKLOGGED.
BACKLOGGED.
OKAY, WE NEED MORE MONEY, NEED
OKAY, WE NEED MORE MONEY, NEED
MORE RESOURCES.
MORE RESOURCES.
IN THE MEANTIME, I’M SORRY, I’M
IN THE MEANTIME, I’M SORRY, I’M
A MOM.
A MOM.
IF I KNOW THAT URANIUM IS GOING
IF I KNOW THAT URANIUM IS GOING
INTO THE WATER EVEN IF IT’S
INTO THE WATER EVEN IF IT’S
ACCEPTABLE LEVELS, I DON’T LIKE
ACCEPTABLE LEVELS, I DON’T LIKE
IT.
IT.
>> IN BOTH CASES WHAT HAS TO BE
>> IN BOTH CASES WHAT HAS TO BE
DONE, I UNDERSTAND IT WAS A
DONE, I UNDERSTAND IT WAS A
DIFFERENT ADMINISTRATION, BUT
DIFFERENT ADMINISTRATION, BUT
YOU HAVE TO GO BACK AND FIND OUT
YOU HAVE TO GO BACK AND FIND OUT
WHO DROPPED THE BALL.
WHO DROPPED THE BALL.
>> DEVIN: AND I’LL LET YOU BOTH
>> DEVIN: AND I’LL LET YOU BOTH
WEIGH IN TO WRAP IT UP.
WEIGH IN TO WRAP IT UP.
I MENTIONED EARLIER THE ONLY
I MENTIONED EARLIER THE ONLY
REASON WE KNEW ABOUT THE GREEN
REASON WE KNEW ABOUT THE GREEN
OOZE BEING A PROBLEM IS HE
OOZE BEING A PROBLEM IS HE
SHOWED UP ON THE HIGHWAY.
SHOWED UP ON THE HIGHWAY.
>> IT WAS GREEN, THANKFULLY.
>> IT WAS GREEN, THANKFULLY.
>> DEVIN: THE SAME THING WITH
>> DEVIN: THE SAME THING WITH
THE DOCK COLLAPSE, THAT’S WHAT
THE DOCK COLLAPSE, THAT’S WHAT
FINALLY GOT US TO SAY WHAT’S IN
FINALLY GOT US TO SAY WHAT’S IN
ALL OF THIS STUFF.
ALL OF THIS STUFF.
SO MY WORRY AND WHAT KEEPS ME
SO MY WORRY AND WHAT KEEPS ME
AWAKE AT NIGHT ON ALL OF THIS,
AWAKE AT NIGHT ON ALL OF THIS,
IS WHAT DO WE NOT KNOW ABOUT
IS WHAT DO WE NOT KNOW ABOUT
WHAT ELSE IS IN -- AND NONE OF
WHAT ELSE IS IN -- AND NONE OF
THIS IS CURRENT.
THIS IS CURRENT.
NONE OF THIS WAS DONE YESTERDAY.
NONE OF THIS WAS DONE YESTERDAY.
BECAUSE OF THE HISTORY OF OUR
BECAUSE OF THE HISTORY OF OUR
AREA AND MANUFACTURING THAT GOES
AREA AND MANUFACTURING THAT GOES
BACK DECADES, WE DON’T KNOW
BACK DECADES, WE DON’T KNOW
WHAT’S UNDER US.
WHAT’S UNDER US.
>> AND IT’S TRUE.
>> AND IT’S TRUE.
I MEAN, TAKE GARY SAYERS, THAT
I MEAN, TAKE GARY SAYERS, THAT
ONE BUILDING, OPERATING THERE
ONE BUILDING, OPERATING THERE
FOR 30 YEARS AND IN MOST OF THAT
FOR 30 YEARS AND IN MOST OF THAT
TIME, IF YOU GO BACK, HE WAS ON
TIME, IF YOU GO BACK, HE WAS ON
THE RADAR WITH THE FEDS, WITH
THE RADAR WITH THE FEDS, WITH
THE STATE, WITH THE LOCAL
THE STATE, WITH THE LOCAL
LEADERS.
LEADERS.
NOTHING WAS DONE TO SHUT IT DOWN
NOTHING WAS DONE TO SHUT IT DOWN
UNTIL OOZE IS NOW MAKING ITS WAY
UNTIL OOZE IS NOW MAKING ITS WAY
ONTO THE ROADWAY A SHORT TIME
ONTO THE ROADWAY A SHORT TIME
AFTER THAT.
AFTER THAT.
SO THAT TO ME IS UNACCEPTABLE.
SO THAT TO ME IS UNACCEPTABLE.
WE’VE GOT THE GUY ACROSS THE
WE’VE GOT THE GUY ACROSS THE
STREET TALKING TO ME SAYING, IF
STREET TALKING TO ME SAYING, IF
I WANT A BUILDING PERMIT, I’VE
I WANT A BUILDING PERMIT, I’VE
GOT TO JUMP THROUGH A HOOP AND
GOT TO JUMP THROUGH A HOOP AND
THIS GUY IS OPERATING LIKE THIS
THIS GUY IS OPERATING LIKE THIS
WITH A BUILDING THAT LOOKS LIKE
WITH A BUILDING THAT LOOKS LIKE
A DUMP.
A DUMP.
>> AND SAME WITH DETROIT
>> AND SAME WITH DETROIT
STORAGE, THE SAME THING.
STORAGE, THE SAME THING.
THEY’VE BEEN ON THE RADAR, NOT
THEY’VE BEEN ON THE RADAR, NOT
MEETING DEADLINES, NOT PAYING
MEETING DEADLINES, NOT PAYING
THEIR BILLS AND SOMEHOW IT
THEIR BILLS AND SOMEHOW IT
STEAMS TO BE OKAY AND YOU START
STEAMS TO BE OKAY AND YOU START
ASK YOURSELF, IS SOMEONE GETTING
ASK YOURSELF, IS SOMEONE GETTING
PAID OFF?
PAID OFF?
WHY ARE THEY SLIPPING BENEATH
WHY ARE THEY SLIPPING BENEATH
THE RADAR.
THE RADAR.
IT CAN’T KEEP HAPPENING.
IT CAN’T KEEP HAPPENING.
>> AND SOME ARE CARTING STUFF
>> AND SOME ARE CARTING STUFF
OFF HOPING IT NEEDS TO BE
OFF HOPING IT NEEDS TO BE
FORGOTTEN.
FORGOTTEN.
>> DEVIN: I’D LIKE TO TALK MORE,
>> DEVIN: I’D LIKE TO TALK MORE,
BUT YOU BOTH HAVE TO PUT ON YOUR
BUT YOU BOTH HAVE TO PUT ON YOUR
HAZMAT SUITS AND GET BACK OUT
HAZMAT SUITS AND GET BACK OUT
THERE.
THERE.
I KNOW IT’S NOT FUNNY, BUT WE’LL
I KNOW IT’S NOT FUNNY, BUT WE’LL
TAKE A QUICK BACK AND BACK WITH
TAKE A QUICK BACK AND BACK WITH
MORE ON FLASH POINT RIGHT AFTER
MORE ON FLASH POINT RIGHT AFTER
THIS.
Z3PC3Z Z16FZ
Y3PC3Y Y16FY
>>  EARLIER I MENTIONED LAST
>>  EARLIER I MENTIONED LAST
WEEK’S INTERVIEW WITH THE HEAD
WEEK’S INTERVIEW WITH THE HEAD
OF EGLE LIESEL CLARK.
OF EGLE LIESEL CLARK.
IF YOU DIDN’T HAVE A CHANCE TO
IF YOU DIDN’T HAVE A CHANCE TO
SEE IT FIND IT ON
SEE IT FIND IT ON
CLICKONDETROIT.COM/FLASH POINT
CLICKONDETROIT.COM/FLASH POINT
WHERE YOU’LL FIND ALL OF OUR
WHERE YOU’LL FIND ALL OF OUR
BROADCASTS AS A MATTER OF FACT.
BROADCASTS AS A MATTER OF FACT.
MEET THE PRESS IS NEXT RIGHT
