Stan: We're cutting out everything except
the sex jokes...
Karl: Oh really?
Stan: Yeah.
Karl: Don't do the thing about this [Beep].
I think that was a step too far.
[Laughter]
Stan: I think it was...
I was like holy crap!
This video is brought to you by Squarespace,
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Yeah you might be...
Yeah.
Karl: Is that better?
Stan: Are you trying to get away from me?
[Laughter] Oh, it was the coffee, right...
Oh.
Karl: Eggs and coffee, it smells like...
Stan: Are you serious?
Karl: No.
Stan: Like crap!
I had eggs and coffee...
Karl: Did you really?
Stan: Yes...
Well, how did you know?
Is it that bad?
Karl: I’ve laughed too much now, my face
is like -
Stan: Oh, how's the lighting on his face with
the -
Karl: Those wrinkles...
Stan: Should we cover him more?
Karl: Yeah.
Stan: Should we cover -
Karl: Is that better?
Stan: That's better, yeah.
Speaker 1: It looks good.
Stan: Yeah, it does, it's not casting you.
That looks great.
Karl: Yeah.
Stan: You look wonderful.
Karl: Thank you.
I like you Stan.
Stan: Better than I expected.
Karl: Really?
Stan: I saw a bunch of videos of you and you're
all -
Karl: That guy's a mess...
Stan: I was like yeah, how are we going to
make this work.
You want to start the interview?
Karl: Yeah, let's start.
Stan: Okay.
So, last time we talked, you wanted to talk
about discipline, right?
Karl: Like can I talk about how I discipline
my kids?
Stan: You tell whatever you want and I'll
edit it.
Karl: Because that's where I get it engrained,
you know.
If it works on them, it can work on me.
Stan: When did you have kids?
Karl: Oh...
When I was quite old.
I think I was 35 when we had our first child.
I was actually in-house at Games Workshop
Studio and I left when my wife was pregnant
to go freelance.
And that's when it all went kind of crazy
for me.
Stan: What do you mean crazy?
Karl: Well because Games Workshop, you were
sort of in a little bubble; you weren't exposed
to the outside world especially, you were
just part of the team.
So, you had no idea of how other artists regarded
you and other industry artists.
So, that was quite a revelation when I actually
left and people knew my name and you know
that you're quite well regarded as an artist.
It seemed to me over time that there was a
lot of guys who grew up loving say Games Workshop
games and now they're working in the industry
and they're like 'oh, let's get that old guy
who we used to love when we were eight' and
then Magic: The Gathering as well has been
a sort of you know, that's quite a global
phenomenon really.
So, you know, I think that kind of helps spread
the -
Stan: Yeah, they're still releasing your cards,
right?
Karl: Yes.
Stan: Are those old paintings?
Karl: No, I mean, I just finished one before
I came here, I've just been commissioned another
but I’ve had to really reign it in because
things have gone a bit crazy with the social
media and you know, -
Stan: You're getting popular...
Karl: Yeah like really way more popular than
I thought ever possible.
When I wanted to be popular, I wasn't popular.
You know, like when you're trying to meet
girls and that, nobody gave -
Stan: Yeah.
Karl: Shit about Karl.
Stan: I’ve been with my wife for like 16
years.
Karl: Oh, that's good.
Stan: I was never really in the dating game.
Karl: No?
Stan: No.
Karl: Straight in.
Just efficient..
Stan: Just, oh, done.
Karl: Yeah.
I found one and that's fine, let's leave it
here till we die.
Stan: Yeah.
I don't want to take my chances.
Karl: Yeah, yeah[?].
Stan: I've got to keep this one.
Karl: Yeah.
You do...
[Laughter].
Yeah I’m pretty popular on there.
[Laughter]
Stan: We'll keep that...
We'll just isolate that quote, and yeah, I’m
pretty popular, deal with.
Karl: Yeah, so deal with it, yeah.
[Laughter]
Stan: So, but then, when did you start getting
discipline in your training?
Karl: Well, if I rewind to my sort of college
days as it were, university days, I was huge
- I was always drawing as a kid, really sort
of obsessively.
Then I went to university thinking well, I’m
going to do a fine art course, it's going
to be amazing they'll teach me everything
and I was incomprehensibly disappointed in
my -
Stan: Which school?
Karl: Uh, it was a place in the northeast
of England.
It was actually that year, there were 93 hour
fine art courses and it ranked 82nd.
Stan: So, it wasn't an art school, it was
just like a university?
Karl: It was a university fine art course
and it was like my third choice, I didn't
get in at my first choice.
So, I was pretty mediocre, a bit of a failure
at college, really.
So, it was that experience and also really
I wasted a lot of years there because I got
so disillusioned, I stopped drawing almost
completely and just hanging out, growing dreadlocks
and you know, not doing the things I should
have been doing.
So, the discipline comes from that life experience.
Like you come out the other side, I was like,
I’ve got to sort this out now.
Because I knew I was okay at drawing, but
it started to dawn on me quite quickly that
I needed to put some hard work in and learn.
And I’m still frustrated you know, we're
talking with Jisu and Hyunjin and Jung Gi
just the other night and you know, they've
got a really rigid teaching system and it's
very much not unlike what you're doing.
You know, there's a lot of stuff where people
are learning the real bones of it and the
real basics of anatomy and fundamentals of
perspective and things like that, and I skipped
all - nobody taught me that.
So, I always feel like I’m playing catch-up.
And I always encourage people that you know,
if I meet young people asking how to improve,
then I really encourage them you've got to
go back and learn this.
It's like the foundations of a building; if
you don't build it up, then you're right - for
me, I had to kind of knock it down and go
back and start again which is frustrating
and it's also inefficient.
Stan: Well, it doesn't seem like it from your
work.
Karl: Smoke and mirrors man, smoke and mirrors.
Stan: So, how did you make it work?
Like how did you, without studying perspective
- or did you study perspective on your ownm,
from books?
Karl: Books, yeah, yeah.
And like even when I was a kid before I went
to uni, it's actually really funny because
looking at your book collection there, I’m
like, 'I’ve got that one, got that one,
got that one, got that one'.
And a hell of a lot of those books that you've
got, I bought and studied from.
There was uh, you know, even Gray's Anatomy
which is ostensibly a medical book and I went
through this thing just page after page.
A lot of it - I was interested in biology
as a kid as well and animals.
So, a lot of it was an interest rather than
let's learn this.
Stan: Right.
Karl: So, there was a fundamental there but
I wasn't being disciplined about my learning,
I was just interested in it.
And then I had another book that was called
Anatomy for Artists which made what I was
interested in a lot more applicable.
Stan: Which one?
Anatomy for Artists...
Was it Gold Finger or -?
Karl: It was one by - it was maybe Hungarian
artist and you had a section of human anatomy
and then several sections afterwards of like
a bear, chimpanzee...
It was really cool book.
One of these lucky finds, and I went through
that and really studied that.
But you know, I don't know the muscles of
the back as much as I should and you know,
there's a lot that I still need to learn.
Stan: Perfect.
We're going to have you draw a wolverine from
-
Karl: From the back...
Stan: Yeah.
Karl: I’ll just put a big coat him.
Stan: No, you can't.
[Laughter] you're going to cover it with fur...
Karl: Yeah, yeah.
Hairy wolverine.
Stan: Hairy wolverine...
[Laughter]
Stan: There you go.
Karl: We'll do a wolverine before back sack
and crack.
Do you know that?
Stan: What?
Karl: That's a waxing in England...
Back, sack, crack.
Stan: Oh, jezz!
[Laughter]
Karl: Sorry, I do apologize.
Stan: Don't, it's good for us, bad for you.
Karl: Yeah, it's terrible for me.
Stan: Did cycling help with the discipline
or when did you start cycling?
Karl: Well, over the years, I’ve had some
medical, sort of circulatory issues come up
where they're like you need to keep moving.
So, I started cycling a little bit just because
I knew I was basically sat at the desk or
hunched over you know, this kind of thing.
So, I started doing it just to get some exercise
and then like a lot of artists I meet, I’m
an obsessive, like really obsessive.
And so, once I start to enjoy it, am I right,
I need to get good at this and I need this
bike and I need - yeah.
But what I’ve found has been really helpful
is, especially as I’ve got better and I’ve
done a bit of training and racing, is it helped
with the discipline and I like it as well
because it's a bit like being in the company
of these guys, there's nowhere to hide.
They know -if you're not good at drawing they
know.
You can't bluff your way through this.
And cycling is very much like that, especially
if you hit like a mountain or a climb, all
the nice flashy [?] shaved legs you know,
looking cool...
Yeah, you've got to shave your leg.
Stan: Yeah.
Karl: All that means nothing once you hit
the mountain because if you haven't done the
work, you're out the back and you're having
the most hideous day of your life.
But no, it's been really good and what I’ve
also found with it is really useful because
I'm getting older now, I’m 48, so -
Stan: Damn...
Karl: Yeah, I know, it's awful, isn't it?
Nearly - nearly over - very nearly over but
[Laughter] two or three years.
But no, what I’ve found is it's been - it's
actually helped my energy levels.
I cycle six days a week, so most days, even
if I do like only an hour or two, it's usually
a pretty hard training.
And I find that I can put longer hours in
the day.
So, I put maybe 10 1BBBBBBBBBBBBBBBB2 hours
in drawing.
Before cycling, I couldn't do that.
Like six hours, I was tired.
Stan: Yeah, that's how I am.
Karl: Yeah.
Stan: No, after six hours of drawing, I’m
done, I can't.
It's just - my brain just can't handle more.
Karl: Yeah, yeah.
But what also I’ve found that's useful is
I have a big variety of projects on the go.
So, maybe have an oil painting, like the cycling
paintings where they're really loose and then
I have the sketches that I’m doing and then
I have some work for magic or computer game,
and I can flip between.
So, if I really feel like my brain's a bit
fried from doing that, then I’ll just switch
to something else and make the call and say
'no, I’m not gonna hit the deadline, this
-'. So, you know, but it's helped a lot.
Stan: Do you sleep less now after cycling?
Karl: I think maybe a little bit and also
I’ve got kids and they don't let you sleep.
Stan: Well, did you start cycling after you
had kids?
Karl: Yeah.
So, before I had kids, life was just one big
party...
I used to play basketball actually a lot before
I had kids.
I was playing basketball at British level,
which in the US you have to understand it's
pretty low.
[Chuckles]
Stan: Yeah.
I played basketball too when I was a kid.
Karl: Did you?
Stan: My team was the worst team in the league,
literally the worst, and I was the worst player
on my team.
I would always kind of stay back and whenever
somebody would like a rebound, I would already
be on like the other side of the court like
yeah, come on!
[Laughter] and they would throw it to me.
I’d be like wide open lay upand miss...
Karl: Oh, miss...
Stan: Miss, everytime.
Karl: Oh God!
Stan: I don't know why they kept throwing
it to me.
Karl: Just the enthusiasm in your face....
I’ll give him the ball.
Stan: So, that's...
Karl: Oh, that's good.
Yeah, I’m pretty much at that level actually.
Stan: Really?
Karl: [Laughter] We should go and have a game.
Stan: Anything else about how you trained?
Karl: Well, yeah, I did a lot of life classes.
Actually after -
Stan: Oh!
Karl: Yeah, when I -
Stan: Life drawing from a model...
Karl: Yeah, life drawing.
Stan: Okay.
Karl: When I was at uni, they had live classes
but you'd go and there'd be like one other
person there and the same model they had every
week, next week it looked like she'd never
moved from last week...
Stan: Oh, was it the same pose every time?
Karl: No, just nobody cared.
So you just rock up, take the money, lie down
and people had to draw her.
So it was - there was not even any teaching
in there, it was just offered.
Stan: Just open a workshop sort of thing.
Karl: Yeah.
So what I did afterwards was I actually started
going to a local class with one of the other
artists from Games Workshop who I really admire,
a guy called Paul Dainton when he came into
the studio, I was really intimidated by him
because he was like super high level and as
we got to know each other, we had very similar
interests, talked about you know, all the
guys who are on your bookshelf; Sargent, Sorolla,
Repin you know, Kpamckon, all these, Fechin,
all these guys who would sort of really geek
out about.
And so, we started going to this live class
together.
It was just wonderful.
I absolutely loved it.
I don't go so much anymore because it's further
away from where I live but they did a, I think
it was an eight hour pose; two hours over
four weeks and it was just long enough to
do a pretty decent oil painting from.
And I’d go and try out my zorn palette and
you know, look at Sageant paintings before
I went along.
And I love that idea that doing something
so simple, it's like you set up you want that
on there, and that's it.
There's no art directors, there's nobody busting
your balls telling you yeah...
Can you make - give them a bigger gun or you
know?
Stan: Yeah.
Karl: Change that rim light...
It's just a very simple exercise.
So, you can be totally focused, totally and
completely concentrating on what you're doing
there.
And I think also the other thing that it teaches
you which I’ve found invaluable and I’ve
actually noticed I’m missing a bit now is
that because that you don't - I don't think
you hold on to it, I think you've got to train
it, you've got to keep doing it and is the
observational skills you've got to really
focus.
It's not just 'oh yeah that's an arm...',
you've got to be so intensely focused on what
you're doing.
It really heightens your observational skills
and your ability to take that and place it
in whatever medium you're doing.
Stan: It seems like you're good at both drawing
from life through observation and drawing
from imagination...
A lot of artists struggle with either one
or the other, mostly from imagination, you
know.
A lot of artists train from a model, from
drawing from books, from photographs and then
they're like 'wait, I can't draw from imagination'.
So, when did you make that transition and
how?
Karl: It was quite - I mean, as a kid, I was
always drawing Tarzan and -
Stan: From your head?
Karl: Yeah.
Stan: Or from tv...
Karl: Yeah, because we didn't have a lot of
money, so I didn't really have or maybe go
to the library and borrow...
It was things like Asterix and Oblixs and
Tintin and things like that.
But really from my head.
And so, you know, I was drawing Spider-man
and you know, all these kind of things from
the late 70s early 80s.
But then when I went to Games Workshop, for
some reason I don't really know why, but nobody
was really using reference.
We were all just - had this kind of chaotic
way of doing the paintings.
So, you'd have - you had a big library of
reference books but you didn't have a computer
next to you, you just had an easel and your
materials, it's all traditional.
So, I just kind of really honed in that talent
there maybe and you're working along guys
with different skill sets.
There's an artist called Adrian Smith who
was amazing at lighting.
He just seemed to be able to light stuff from
his head without any reference.
So, I was picking up you know, little tricks
all the time along there.
So, it was a long sort of process of just
working like that.
But I think also, more recently, I’ve become
aware of is that what I was doing then and
still doing now is to always be looking to
break things down to the simplest form.
Especially when you come to lighting and perspective
and if you can consider that when you're placing
it then it's really beneficial to the end
result.
Because if you don't break it down into elements
like anything...
It's like painting a room you know, if you
go, this is huge, I’ve got to paint this
whole room...
You go okay, I’ll do that wall first.
So, I always think you know, don't be too
intimidated.
And people have done - said that I’ve done
big oil paintings of battle of Waterloo and
things like this, how do you tackle this?
But it's all a matter of one chunk at a time
and just keep chipping away at it and obsessively
doing it, you know?
Stan: For the kids or the young adults that
are struggling with just getting something
out from their imagination, they can simplify
forms by looking at photographs and then when
they want to draw something from imagination,
it's just ugly.
Is there any advice?
Karl: I think one of the keys is building
a visual library, obviously in your memory,
but a lot of mine was done from real objects
or reality, not always from 2d or you know,
like costume design always from a computer
game or a movie.
It was always like going and digging out the
historical stuff or going to a museum or drawing
people a new or say you're doing observational
drawing of faces, what you're teaching yourself
is that the huge range of faces and the huge
variety and facial structure and huge variety
in anatomy and things like that.
So what I think, sometimes people get stuck
in is that they're stuck in a trap because
maybe they've got the Bridgman book or something
and they understand that but then, they can't
add any character to it because really it's
as advanced level as they might be, really
it's just a set of blocks stuck together.
You've got to be able to take that and apply
it in a way that's characterful, haven't you?
And I think, if you learn that stuff and then
you go and do life drawing classes or then
you do studies from your friends, what you
can start to do is you can understand how
those fundamentals apply in real life.
And then for me, I think I’ve also got a
very good memory, not like Jung Gi level where
you talking about you know, huge sort of library,
but I have a good memory and a good ability
to recall stuff.
And for me, one of the things I try to do
is maybe to think of - to try and hold the
image in my head of something I’ve seen.
I’m not trying to get it on the paper exactly
what I’m seeing there, but I’m trying
to just hold on to that element that I’ve
seen or has inspired me, even if it's just
for a few minutes as you start the sketch
and then hope that some of it's in there.
Unfortunately at the end of the day, there's
no real shortcut, it's repetition and practice
really as well.
And you know, like when guys come to me who
are 20 and say 'how did you get so good?'...
And go well, 'I’m 48, I’ve done it twice
as long as you', you know, and I wasn't always
this good.
I’m not saying I’m really good, I’m
saying I wasn't always at this level, I’m
okay.
I wasn't always this okay.
[Laughter] there wasn't always this medium.
Stan: I wasn't always as popular...
Karl: Yeah.
[Laughter]
Stan: But you were born in the UK, right?
Karl: Yeah, yeah, I was.
Stan: Okay.
Karl: But my dad was really - it was funny
really because his brothers changed his name
to john, but my dad really held on to his
polish heritage.
Stan: What was his name?
Karl: My dad's name's Jan and my name's actually
Yan because they named the oldest child after
the father, so they did that for a year and
then they're like this is really confusing,
let's just call him Karl [Laughter]
Stan: So, are you still Yan on your birth
certificate?
Karl: My full name is Yan Peter Karl Kopinski...
But yeah, so my grandfather came over in world
war 2, fled Poland and flew in the - flew
in the RAF bombers.
And that's actually had quite a big influence
on my work I think because I was always interested
in that military history.
I’m always drawing guys with flying goggles
on them.
I loved books on aeroplanes...
Stan: Oh, did you like see his photographs
and stuff?
Karl: No, he was - he never really - we think
he had to bomb his own city, so, he never
really spoke about it, and he was an awful
cook I remember that.
He'd have a bag of raw mushrooms that he'd
peel and eat.
Carton of milk on the windowsill to go sour
and then he'd drink it and then microwave
hot dogs I think, go around - microwave hot
dog...
Stan: I microwave hotdogs all the time...
[Laughter] Too lazy to boil.
My other joke question was how many sexy angels
and sexy vampires have you drawn for people
on their magic cards?
Karl: Do you know what?
I think people gave up because I don't do
sexy very well.
Stan: Oh, you don't do - oh...
Karl: I’m not very good at sexy.
I’m quite you know, I’m not a sexy man.
You know what I mean?
My brother's a sexy man.
Stan: Wow!
Karl: But I’m not.
I'm just not good at - also I’ve got a young
daughter who's 13 and I don't want to do like
women going into battle in chain male bikinis
and go well why, what?
Of course that's how they fight.
Stan: Yeah, but I was watching another interview
with you, where you were at some convention
and you said that everyone's asking for you
to draw them sexy vampires...
Karl: It's true, yeah.
Yeah, and also they'll ask you to do it on
a magic card with a sharpie and you're like
but this is like this big and you want me
to turn a goblin into a sexy vampire with
a sharpie...
Like really?
Stan: How do you do that?
Karl: I don't, I just make a bad job of it
usually, but not intentionally, it's pretty
hard.
The first time I did a magic convention the
guy - and I don't play the game, I knew nothing
about it so, I went there and the guy said
oh, do you do alterations?
And I said what do you mean?
And he said, draw over the picture.
And I thought, I’ve spent a week on that,
you want me to just scribble on it?
And he said yeah, put mickey mouse ears on
him...
Like what!
This is really confusing...
Don't you like the artwork?
[Laughter]
Stan: Don't you like it?
Karl: But now, I’ve got quite good at it
actually.
It'd usually take a little set of acrylics
along or some acrylic paint pens and some
you know - and you can also put like a coat
of - I use liquitex matte medium when I’m
painting a lot for the commercial stuff for
oil painting.
So, if you put a coat of that on it, it holds
the paper.
Stan: And it's transparent...
Karl: Yeah, yeah.
And I got that from James Gurney's books.
So, I use that technique on almost all my
commercial oil paint.
But I’ve drawn a lot of sexy vampires and
sexy angels.
I also had a guy who just wanted me to draw
spurting....
Stan: What?
Karl: Spurting...
Yeah, you know how it's like -
Stan: Yeah, I know.
[Laughter]
Karl: The stuff that comes from the end...
He wanted that on there.
Stan: Did you do that?
Karl: I didn't want to but he was really insistent,
so I did a very quick job.
Stan: The impression?
Karl: Yeah.
And then three -
Stan: Come on man!
Karl: Yeah, come on out, draw me.
He said just shout and draw me a...
Draw me...
All right, I'll draw you...
Stan: Oh my god!
Karl: And then, the best bit was, I went back
to a convention maybe three years later the,
same dude turned up...
Stan: Oh no!
You're like not you again!
Karl: Yeah.
He said 'don't worry, I want you to draw this
stuff'.
Stan: Oh my god!
Karl: I was like 'oh, this is awful!'.
Stan: Turn off the cameras.
Karl: It was awful.
And I did it.
You're such whore.
Stan: Are you sure you want this recorded.
Okay...
Karl: Back on track.
Stan: Back on track.
Trying to steer this.
We also were joking about - talking about
your biggest mistakes.
Karl: Oh yeah.
Stan: You wanna talk about some of your biggest
career mistakes?
Karl: Yeah.
Not career mistakes, life mistakes.
Stan: Yeah.
Karl: I don't know if I’ve made any really
big career mistakes.
Stan: That's why you're so popular.
Karl: Yeah.
I’m popular.
No, I think what I’ve done is I’ve done
a few projects which I’ve not enjoyed.
For example, I’ve worked on movie stuff
that I’ve not enjoyed, but I always thought
'oh it's going to be great working on movies',
but in actual fact, it was actually really
boring and you know -
Stan: Really?
Karl: Yeah, because - this was just one or
two projects, but sometimes they just want
you to do versions of a pocket or something
you know, on a costume and you think -
Stan: They hired Karl Kopinski to draw a pocket?
Karl: Well, you kind of start by doing the
big idea and then it fun - okay, we love this
design and then suddenly two weeks later,
you're doing the pockets and you're thinking
'I’m pretty sure you've got a better pocket
guy than me'.
But it's not a mistake but what it's made
me learn is that some of these industries
that maybe are really appealing and you think
'I got him working there'.
Sometimes it's not sort of inspiring, but
also, on the on the flip side of that, I learned
that - say if you work in pre-production,
I worked with a guy a lot called Loic Zimmerman
who was working with moving picture company,
and this was a huge surprise to me but he
actually got me on Disney early pre-production
stuff.
I even did designs for the Genie for Aladdin,
yeah.
I was like 'you want me to do-' and he's like
'no' because it's live action and you know,
your stuff's realistic and it's great for
the you know, the producers and everyone to
see some iterations of that.
Stan: Did you know that it was going to be
Will Smith when you -?
Karl: No, it was pre Will Smith.
Yeah, yeah.
So, there's all kinds of ideas thrown in there.
And it was interesting because also you had
access to the folders so you could see the
other artists who were working on it and their
ideas.
Stan: How many artists did they have?
Karl: When I was submitting for the Genie
stuff, there's maybe four or five other artists.
It was very early in the project you know,
pre-production stuff.
Stan: Did they pick one artist to then go
and take it -?
Karl: I don't know really what happened but
what I found with one project I worked on
was Artemis Fowl which is a film that's, I
think due for release next year and I started
with Loic doing pre-production stuff that
actually they liked it and got me on board
for production and that was interesting because
you kind of delving deeper into those initial
ideas and starting to work out.
It's quite nice to be able to take that and
develop those initial ideas and develop them
and see where you can go with it.
But yeah, I mean, mistakes, I’ve made a
few.
There's a song there, isn't it?
I know one was staying at Games Workshop for
longer than I should have.
Stan: How long were you there?
Karl: I was there for seven years.
We had three years, three or four years where
it was really superb art team, you know, really
a great bunch of guys and then you also had
sculptors, writers, all in the same studio.
So, it was really sort of thriving environment.
But after three years, four years, I started
to be put back onto projects that were being
re-released.
So, you're redoing stuff you've done already
and I was getting bored of drawing skulls
and spikes on everything.
Stan: You just redo the same painting again?
Karl: A lot of the work was for say what they'd
call a codex or the rule book for it.
They'd do a re-release of that maybe they'd
had a new product out for it and so they'd
redo the cover or use some old work but need
new artwork.
And this isn't at Games Workshop, it's my
mentality.
I found I was starting to lose sort of enthusiasm
and interest in it and also slowly the art
team started to disappear.
So, one artist left, another one.
And so it was smaller and smaller art team.
They were focusing more heavily on Lord of
The Rings movie, license that they've got.
So, I just lost my real sort of enthusiasm
and drive for it.
So, I wish I’d come out the other side a
bit earlier and gone you know, freelance.
And another thing that I think the huge mistake
I made was not finding the right college course
for me because as much as I had putting down
that course I did, part of it's my own fault
for not finding the one that suited me and
I wish I’d made the most of those three
years where I had the opportunity to just
paint for the hell of it well as I’m doing
at the moment, I still don't get that chance
to just paint for the hell of it and it's
a fantastic thing to be able to do.
Stan: Is it because you take on all the job
opportunities?
Karl: Yeah and like I’m not super wealthy,
I still have bills to pay and I still have
mortgage to pay, I’ve got kids you know.
So, you still beholden to client work somewhat
and although I’ve got a great following,
I haven't quite worked out how to you know,
make that financially work for me.
And also I’m a little bit reticent to just
be selling stuff on my social media.
I think it would tarnish it a bit.
I think people are interested because it's
interesting and I try to post regularly and
I try to do stuff that's my own take on things
and that seems to be why people keep coming
back and checking it.
So, if I’m just on there going no 'oh, another
book out, I’ve got a print out, come and
buy my stuff' but I don't know if it would
start to water it down.
I’m just a bad businessman.
I’m a terrible businessman.
Stan: People want you to release new prints.
Karl: I’m still -
Stan: They want new books.
Karl: You know what?
I’m still - part of me I have imposter syndrome.
I said this to Lim just the other day; I’m
always looking over my shoulder waiting for
someone to go 'Oh, it's you, the guy who thinks
he's good' [Laughter] 'the guy who thinks
he can draw'.
Stan: Oh, come on!
Karl: And also, I’m really, really, really
flattered that people are so interested because
really when I started putting sketches out,
it was my wife who made me start a Facebook
account, an Instagram account.
She said 'you've got to do it'.
She's got a much better eye for this sort
of thing than I have and I was - the sketchers,
I wasn't going to put on Instagram.
They always process stuff or me just warming
up in the morning or trying to get an idea
out and she said 'oh, I think people might
be interested'.
Yeah, I don't think they'll like these.
I’m just going to throw it in the bin and
I was throwing these things away.
Stan: Oh my god!
Karl: Yeah and just like 'oh, there are just
for the big painting'.
And then when I posted them on there, people
were like 'oh, we really like this.
It's really - can you show us more?'
am I 'oh, okay'.
Stan: I like the sketches better than the
finished drawings.
Karl: Well, for me, that's what interests
me as well as an artist a lot of the time
that you see a fantastic painting but you
want to see the process and the workings in
there and the you know -
Stan: But even just as a standalone product
on its own, I just like the look of sketches.
Karl: Yeah yeah.
And I think there's a nice instantaneous feel
to it and they have energy and you know, it's
been a real revelation for me because I’ve
said this before in other interviews, in a
way my social media following has sort of
morphed my career.
I’m still doing the same thing but I have
a lot - I’m not naturally very confident
about my artwork.
So, it really helped me sort of feel like
I was doing okay and that this stuff did have
value and was interesting and it was same
with seeing - when I saw Jung Gi start to
put stuff out that was just sketch based,
so I’ve said you know, you can put this
out and it does have its own place, it does
have a sort of relevance and value.
And then, the more people kind of showed interest
and fed it you know, I started to do more
and more and really started to focus on it
and then they asked for sketchbooks.
So then, my wife said right, I’m making
a sketchbook and I’m just sat like [?]. It's
really hard work making a book.
I can't do that and drawing and she's like
'give me all your sketchbooks and she went
and got the first books printed.
So, before I did Big Kopinski, got like self-published
books, so they're not as high quality sort
of paper and hardback but there's still a
way to get what I’m doing out and they're
another driving force behind the sketch kind
of projects that I do.
Stan: It's funny hearing you say that it's
hard work to make a book while you draw 10
hours a day.
Does that not work to you?
Karl: No, like.
It's not even fun, it's just what I do.
Stan: Oh really?
Karl: It's not like I’m there going 'uhhhh...
I’m drawing!'
I’m just doing it.
You know, I just do it all the time.
It's like, if I don't draw - the only times
I’m not drawing is weekends, I’ll be with
my family.
You know, morning and evening, I spend with
my kids but everything in between is drawing
unless I’m on the bike.
So you know, we still have - there's a work
family balance; I take my kids to school every
day and I don't start work till maybe nine.
But then I’m working till 11:30 at night.
But I’m - I mean, it's not like I’m just
sat with the sketchbook and maybe Netflix
and just enjoying it really, having fun, you
know, doing the thing.
Stan: So is that the next goal in your career
is going in that direction where you're trying
to sell your own stuff or are you going to
still try to stick to the freelancing?
Karl: I like the freelancing in a way because
what it does is it gives me an outlet for
doing more involved oil paintings and things
like that.
I do a lot of work with a company called Cool
Mini Or Not, so I did a whole series of paintings
for Narcos, their board game.
Stan: Narcos?
Karl: Yeah, yeah, the TV show.
Stan: The Netflix show?
Karl: Yeah, so I did like maybe 32 characters
all based on actual characters than two -
Stan: This is a board game?
Karl: Yeah, yeah.
Stan: Where do I get this?
Karl: I think they've got it at San Diego
comic con.
Stan: Oh man!
Karl: Yeah, yeah.
Previously I did Godfather with them, with
Marlon Brando on the cover and a bunch of
1920s gangsters.
So, I like that stuff because it's giving
me an outlet for the oil paintings.
I think like a lot of artists, whether it's
music you know, drawing and painting, whatever,
the great thing that social media has allowed
me to do is to have a bit more control over
what you're doing and have an audience to
potentially sell stuff to and give you that
ability to explore stuff that maybe client-based
work wouldn't.
And the weird thing is now, because I’ve
got a big following, you get clients coming
to you going 'can you do that thing you do
on Instagram for us?'.
So now you're like - before, if the client
came to me I'll think okay I’ll get Photoshop
out and I need to do this and I need to make
it nice and shiny for them.
Now they're just like -
Stan: Oil it up.
Karl: Yeah, do that - yeah, yeah.
Yeah, give a bit of [?]. But now they like
'do that gritty messy sketchy thing you do'.
Which is great because it's more me, it's
more naturally me.
So, I gave up digital maybe three years ago.
I was doing quite a lot of digital for Magic:
The Gathering and I was really frustrated
with it and I felt like I was not a naturally
good digital artist.
I haven't grown up with that as a medium.
So, I was always playing catch up on trying
to make it feel like a pencil or paint.
It was always a bit of a -
Stan: I’m the same way.
Karl: Yeah.
I mean, I love digital art.
There's some fantastic - even watching Katsuya
Terada and how he was using Procreate, I was
lucky enough to share the Airbnb with him,
which was like proper geek out.
I was telling Christian, I sent the emails
saying 'no.
Is Terada going to be there?'
[Laughter]
Stan: 'oh, he'll be there'.
Karl: Yeah, 'so, he'll be there.
You're sharing the house with him'.
'oh shit!
Oh my god!'.
When I first got his book I was like, it just
blew me away.
Stan: When was that?
Karl: This was maybe even pre-Games Workshop.
I remember him releasing a book that was in
a brown slip case and it was full of paintings,
sketches he'd done and Monkey King covers
and it just blew my mind.
Then I watched Blood: The Last Vampire.
I think it may even been on VHS cassette ,I’m
not sure.
And so, when she said 'oh yeah, he's going
to be there.'
I was like 'Ohhh oh'.
Stan: Did guys share a bed?
Karl: No.
Stan: No?
Karl: I just waited outside his door for him
to wake up all night.
Stan: You made him breakfast?
Karl: No, no, no, no.
Stan: To get him to wake up earlier...
Karl: 'Can I see you?
Are you awake?' and that's the other great
thing that I’m really kind of thankful for,
I’m getting to sort of spend time with people
whose work I genuinely really admire is just
fantastic.
My brother draws a lot, Stefan.
He's a really good artist himself, a digital
artist and we just used to sit there and sketch
together, and you didn't have to talk, you're
just hanging out sketching, and that's a nice
- I missed that feeling when he moved away
and I moved away.
And when I hang out with Jung Gi, it's like
last night we had Netflix on and just sketching,
and then I looked across and Jisu's joined
us and there's just three of us on this black
sofa with Netflix on, not watching tv, drawing.
Stan: So then, you do want to continue doing
the freelance stuff?
Karl: I think so, but I’m lucky because
now I can pick and choose my clients a bit
more.
So, I’m you know, backing off the ones that
I don't enjoy so much and focusing more on
the others.
But then occasionally a job comes along where
you're like 'well, I can't turn this down,
it's great'.
So, yeah, I think that's why I do so many
hours in the day as well to try and fit it
all in really.
Stan: Well, what did you do for Peter Jackson?
Karl: Ah, Peter Jackson...
That was interesting, that was - not actually
originally commissioned for Peter Jackson,
it was commissioned for people who were trying
to renovate part of the battlefield of Waterloo
in Belgium.
The battle of Waterloo in 1815, there was
a famous area where one of the battles had
took place building and it had fell into disrepair
and there was a project to raise money to
try and turn this into a visitor center.
And what they did was they commissioned a
bunch of artists to produce artworks that
would then be sold as prints to raise money.
So, I did that.
You have to understand I’m seriously nerdy
guy really.
You know, deep down I’m a pretty serious
geek.
So, when this project came along, it was like
geek heaven, you know, going to museums, checking
out what cannons, checking out how they raised
the cannons to make them point in the right
direction.
Stan: And you had to be very accurate, right?
Karl: Yeah, because you're selling to a historical
market.
The people who buy this are the guys who know
all this stuff.
So what I’ve rapidly realized was you had
to do your homework and get this stuff right.
So, I spent maybe a year on two paintings.
I think 45 by 30 inch, something like that
and in oils were made into prints and then
the guy who commissioned me sold them on to
Peter Jackson's wife who'd bought them for
Peter Jackson for Christmas.
Stan: Oh, okay....
Karl: So, there was - my paintings were Peter
Jackson's Christmas present.
Stan: Got it.
Karl: Yeah.
I think maybe just serve turkey on them or
something.
Use them as a plate.
[Laughter] But no, I’ve got friends who
worked at Games Workshop who actually know
him and they said he's got this mad secret
oak clad room.
I think it may be even behind a book...
Stan: Behind a book?
Karl: You know like library...
Stan: Oh, you pull a book and it opens...
Karl: Yeah, a secret door, yeah.
Stan: That's what this behind you, that's
a secret door.
Karl: Really?
Stan: Yeah.
Karl: Can we go in later?
Stan: After the camera is turned off.
Karl: Awesome.
[Laughter] so, yeah, I think they're hanging
in there somewhere.
So, it's pretty cool.
Stan: Yeah.
So, for the painting that you did, did they
have a historian check it before?
Karl: Well, the guy who was doing it, the
project was very knowledgeable and there were
a couple of other guys who were involved,
so I was always cross-referencing it and the
people who knew Peter Jackson, they were good
friends of mine who make historical miniatures
called Michael and Alan Perry.
They are incredibly knowledgeable.
So, I was cross-checking every stage and there's
a lot of books out there.
There was even a diary kept by the British
captain that I painted in one of them.
So, I read the whole diary.
So, it was really sort of in depth, it was
really interesting project to work on.
It's hard to find a market for that because
if you spend four months on them and I got
paid maybe you know, four thousand are painting,
it sounds good but you know, you break it
down it's 1 000 a month really, which is okay
but I’m pretty sure I could get that working
you know, in a garage or something as well.
So, it wasn't incredibly lucrative.
You've got to find someone who's prepared
to pay a premium for these things which is
hard you know?
Stan: Yeah, and how do you find that?
Do they mostly come to you or do they -?
Karl: I don't do those things anymore.
I had to really knock it on the head because
it was just, like I said, just couldn't find
a market for it.
Stan: Okay.
Karl: You know?
It's such a niche thing you know.
But again, it was interesting and I enjoyed
it and it's informed a lot of what I do now.
I love painting horses as well, that's another
-
Stan: There's a big market for that.
Karl: Yeah, yeah.
And did over in Dubai and places like that,
race horse owners, they're all incredibly
wealthy, but I didn't do that, bad business
man.
Stan: Good artist...
Karl: A bad businessman.
[Laughter]
Stan: Your wife seems like she's a good business
woman.
Karl: She's great, honestly, really, [?] and
my wife is like...
Yeah I don't think I’ve reached the level
I’m at without her pushing me you know.
And she does a lot of the shipping of things
back at home and so, we work together as a
team really.
You know, she's always coming up with ideas
and I’m like 'um, I don't know' and then
she'll do it anyway.
Well, that was a good idea, wasn't it?
Yeah, it was mine.
Stan: Make a hundred thousand dollars...
Karl: Yeah, yeah.
And she's got it all in her account.
[Laughter] where did that money go?
It was my idea...
Stan: You sue her for copyright...
Karl: Yeah, yeah.
But that's my IP.
[Laughter]
Stan: Cool, well, if people want to support
you, what's the best way to do that?
Karl: Just...
Stan: PayPal...
[Laughter]
Karl: Yeah.
Just direct to my bank account.
Just send me cash in a brown paper envelope.
No, I think the best way is on my website.
I have various products on there, I’ve got
my books on there, trying to get more prints
out on there.
And also people can you know, ping me messages
and saying what they're interested in because
a lot of the time, I am a little unsure as
to whether they want a big print of a Monkey
King sketch I’ve done or not.
So, you know, and being a small operation,
somewhat of a risk to go and get 300 prints
done and then you sell two.
But the best way they can support me is just
keep you know, following me on Instagram and
keep their eye out for the things that I’m
putting out there.
Stan: The book right there, is it for sale?
Karl: Do you want me to bring it in?
Yeah.
Stan: Is that for sale on your website?
Karl: It's on for sale on my website, so for
sale through Super Annie's website, it's for
sale through Amazon and its global man.
But it's a nice book actually because it's
the first - the ones I’ve published, I’ve
got volumes one, two, three and four that
I’ve self-published.
There's only volume three and four available
now.
So, this contains a lot of one and two which
is out of print and it also has a large color
section in there.
So, it's the first time I’ve managed to
get a lot of my color work into a book.
Actually, when we start going through it,
I realized there's a huge amount of work I’ve
done.
Like I’ve done about I think 170 magic cards
in total.
So, there's just vast amounts of work that
I need to get together into a big book really.
Stan: And most of those are original oil paintings,
right?
Karl: No, this was a -
Stan: A lot of them were digital?
Karl: Yeah a lot of them were digital which
I kind of regret now.
Stan: What percentage do you think we're digital?
Karl: Uh, maybe 65 to 70 percent digital.
Stan: Okay.
Karl: Yeah.
Stan: Do you sell the originals?
Karl: I sell the originals of magic cards.
I’ve actually got maybe three that my wife's
-
Stan: Just kept...
Karl: No, she's selling them I think.
She waits for me to go away for a convention
and sells them.
[Laughter]
Stan: Where?
Or does she just go outside?
Karl: Yeah, we have like a little garage sale,
you know?
Just out on the street with lemonade and paintings.
No, no, there's a - there's um - with magic
cards, there's a lot of Facebook activity.
So, there's pages where collectors are all
together, so she'll - once a card's published,
it's often a good idea to get it out there
fairly quick while people - it's fresh in
their mind, so she sends a message out to
those guys.
I’ve considered actually selling some original
sketches.
Stan: Oh, okay.
I thought you meant sketch books, I’m like,
oh-
Karl: No, no.
But part of me is a bit sad to do that because
they feel a bit like a diary.
So, most of the sketches I can remember where
I was when I did them.
I don't know, something I might look at doing
in the future is just putting a limited amount
of sketches up for sale, I don't know.
And also, one thing I’m trying to do more
of is, I’m trying to do some slightly bigger
in sketch work with multiple figures and things
like that.
So, they're not held together in a sketchbook
as it were.
So, I think in the future I’ll put - I’ve
got a few at San Diego that I’ll probably
sell.
Stan: At Comic Con?
Karl: Yeah, yeah.
I’ve got maybe 20, 25 pieces that I’m
prepared to sell for the right price.
Four pack of beer and -
Stan: That's it?
Karl: - a Hershey bar.
Stan: I’m buying all of them.
[Laughter]
Karl: And we can drink the beer on the street
outside afterwards.
Stan: I can have the beer and the drawings?
Karl: Yeah, yeah.
[Laughter]
Stan: Oh my god!
Karl: I get the Hershey bar though...
[Laughter]
Stan: Cool.
It was a pleasure...
Thank you so much.
Karl: It was a real pleasure
Stan: Really is a pleasure to meet you.
Stan: Thank you very much.
Go to...
What's your website?
Karl: Www.karlkopinsky.com.
Stan: Only two Ws?
Karl: Very original.
Stan: Two Ws?
Karl: Www.
Stan: And Instagram and then buy his book
and then send him money in the paperbag.
Karl: Yeah, yeah.
That would be great, really would.
Stan: What's your home address?
They need to know where they are sending....
Karl: I can't give that out.
Stan: Send it to my studio and I’ll pass
it along.
[Laughter]
Karl: Yeah, yeah.
Send it to
Stan: 'Did you get that money Stan?
It's all gone'.
Stan: Spent it on Hersheys and beer.
[Laughter]
Karl: Ohhh!
Stan: All right guys...
See ya!
Karl: Thanks a lot.
Bye-bye.
Stan: If you're interested in learning more
about Karl Kopinski, be sure to check out
his website; Karlkopinski.com.
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