Diane Goldenberg-Hart: Welcome everyone will be getting started in about a minute.
Diane Goldenberg-Hart: Hi everybody. So glad that you could join us today, we will be getting started in about 30 seconds.
Diane Goldenberg-Hart: Okay. I think it's about time to get started. My name is Diane golden Burkhardt. I'm with the Coalition for network information CNI
Diane Goldenberg-Hart: And you have reached a webinar that as part of seeing is spring 20 virtual membership meeting. And we're so glad that you made some time out of your day to join us here today.
Diane Goldenberg-Hart: Today's webinar will be a panel discussion, including
Diane Goldenberg-Hart: Conversation about current trends and issues in discovery systems, talking about various kinds of features user behaviors identifying needs by analyzing transaction logs.
Diane Goldenberg-Hart: And also using artificial intelligence and machine learning for discovery, our panelists will also be talking about the recent Ohio link and ethical White Paper.
Diane Goldenberg-Hart: On user centered library systems and the concept of full library discovery, you may have been fortunate enough to catch a talk on that report that we also had at CNI
Diane Goldenberg-Hart: In April, and we will chat out a link to that video. If you didn't get a chance to see that.
Diane Goldenberg-Hart: our talk today is entitled discovery systems and 2020 issues and trends and we'll be hearing from four speakers will be hearing from
Diane Goldenberg-Hart: lorcan Dempsey of OCLC Tom Kramer of Stanford University and Bill me show and Michael Norman of the University of Illinois at Urbana Champaign.
Diane Goldenberg-Hart: Before I hand it over to our speakers, I just want to orient you very quickly to a few features of the webinar environment.
Diane Goldenberg-Hart: What is that we have a Q AMP a box. If you look at the bottom of your screen. There's a little button that says Q AMP a
Diane Goldenberg-Hart: If you click on that box will pop up, you can simply type in your questions, or your comments in that box at any time.
Diane Goldenberg-Hart: And after our panelists are have completed their entire presentation, I'll come back on to moderate those questions. We also have a chat box. As I alluded to earlier.
Diane Goldenberg-Hart: Will be sharing some information with you there. But you should also feel free to use that chat box to communicate with us and communicate with the other attendees on this webinar.
Diane Goldenberg-Hart: So without further ado, I want to thank everyone wants one more time for being with us here today. And a special thank you to our panelists for their presentation today. And with that, it's over to you, Lauren.
Lorcan Dempsey: Thank you very much time pleased to be here when we were talking about this session. Bill suggested that I
Lorcan Dempsey: Say a few things maybe by way of general introduction, but also say a little bit about the BTA operation rising collective collections report and full, full library discovery, as was mentioned.
Lorcan Dempsey: Given that times have changed somewhat since that discussion, and we're in unusual circumstances, it seemed to me that it would be
Lorcan Dempsey: Sensible to say a little bit about rediscovering discovery in changed environment. And I'm going to talk about three things very, very briefly.
Lorcan Dempsey: And they're really quite high level. And I think will impact and change the way we think about discovery over the next while they accelerate and I current trends.
Lorcan Dempsey: The my comments, partly based on three sources. I just thought I'd put up very quickly a resource discovery for the 21st century library. I have an introduction in this volume, it's coming out next month from facet publishing in the UK.
Lorcan Dempsey: The BTA report that was mentioned.
Lorcan Dempsey: And then I really still a blog entry, a couple of days talking a couple of days ago talking about the ways in which collections have changed in the current environment, the way in which we think about collections differently, the way in which the relationship
Lorcan Dempsey: Between the library and the collection has changed the the library collecting activity, as it were, has peeled away from the locally managed collection in various ways.
Lorcan Dempsey: So I'm going to talk about three things and then going to relate each of those three things to a pandemic effect. So one of the things we're seeing at the moment is a lot of discussion about what will change what will persist, what will be accelerated what might go away. So
Lorcan Dempsey: Three pandemic effects been very pronounced in the library context, first, obviously, there's been a forced migration online. But I think the effect of that is as people begin to interact with services online.
Lorcan Dempsey: We really begin to think about what does a holistic online experience mean what does it mean to provide the full library experience in an online environment.
Lorcan Dempsey: The second thing is really a focus on mission universities and colleges are really now very focused on their distinctive impact very focused on where they should be putting emphasis very focused on strategic directions, when they come out of the current situation and I think for libraries.
Lorcan Dempsey: There is going to be an increased focus on alignment with evolving institutional priorities.
Lorcan Dempsey: And this means that they will want to optimize the will be pressure on Budgets.
Lorcan Dempsey: There will be pressure on institutional alignment being seen to contribute to institutional priorities at a critical time at a difficult time.
Lorcan Dempsey: So online on mission and optimize and I'm going to say a little bit about a, a, a discovery effect of those three pandemic effects. So a little bit about full library discovery.
Lorcan Dempsey: A little bit about the discover ability of institutional assets in the context of a focus on research.
Lorcan Dempsey: And then under optimize stretching a little bit thinking about DDD discovery to delivery but suggesting that increasingly, we're going to think about GTD in the context of decision support our dashboard.
Lorcan Dempsey: They're increasingly we're going to have data driven decisions we're going to want to think about how how to optimize things in the context of data usage data and traffic that suggests behaviors choices and so on. So discovery to delivery to dashboard.
Lorcan Dempsey: Okay, so first of all, holistic online experience. Now I am using PowerPoint in the way it was supposed to be used here with lots of bullet points.
Lorcan Dempsey: I shifted back to bullet points for this presentation so
Lorcan Dempsey: I think one of the effects. And one of the pandemic effects we see is that the library identity as as this sort of strange hybrid between a set of services and an actual building a physical manifestation, and
Lorcan Dempsey: Symbolic symbolically manifest on on campuses. And I think one of the
Lorcan Dempsey: Effects of the pandemic will be to make that fully online experience very real and the experience of the library and the identity of the library manifest in that online experience.
Lorcan Dempsey: And this means as a target or as a new target and on on the horizon moving forward. We're going to have more pressure to think about how to deliver
Lorcan Dempsey: fully online, how to deliver the full range and richness of the library experience online.
Lorcan Dempsey: So you have things like consultation and expertise you have, how do you substitute for the face to face interaction that creates the relationships that allows you to develop research support or other services.
Lorcan Dempsey: Clearly, their information integration issues and integration into learning management interaction and programming big focus on
Lorcan Dempsey: personal interaction. You know, we've had a discussion about customer relationship management systems, but also profiling over the years and
Lorcan Dempsey: How to get into the user flow, how to use social or so. I think all of these things mixes of these things going to become more prevalent as we think about that fully online library experience.
Lorcan Dempsey: But the same time we're seeing a new relationship between
Lorcan Dempsey: Collections and the library and your relationship between the library and collections.
Lorcan Dempsey: Increasingly, we're thinking about facilitating access to collections that may not be locally owned and curated were thinking about collective access to collections across groups of libraries across them consortia and so
Lorcan Dempsey: Our model of collections was of the careful construction of a locally acquired collection, but in a sense.
Lorcan Dempsey: Even though we say that still quite central to library organization and operation.
Lorcan Dempsey: A lot of what we do has has moved away from that because now what we're really thinking about is, how do you optimally satisfy research and learning needs.
Lorcan Dempsey: From a facilitation network of resources there are resources that are required locally. There are resources that
Lorcan Dempsey: Are collaboratively provided there's open resources. There's commercial resources so
Lorcan Dempsey: We still provide literature search and so on through that discovery there but you don't own everything in the discovery layer.
Lorcan Dempsey: Resource guides and really interesting phenomenon. They're like troubles in in Star Trek that you looked in the room once and there were two or three of them. And now all libraries have
Lorcan Dempsey: All of these resource guides and this is a signal if you like. I mean signal the various things. But one thing is that you're facilitating access to a range of things that are a raid around the needs
Lorcan Dempsey: Of that particular course that particular subject that particular area clearly big emphasis on open access, thinking about how to deploy a re
Lorcan Dempsey: Open access resources, how to access them more effectively open educational resources we facilitate access to a whole array, then if network resources free network resources and try and tie library resources into those
Lorcan Dempsey: At the same time, even you know we connect to acquisitions, we connect two
Lorcan Dempsey: Ways in which discovery connects to and ways in which we acquire materials to demand driven acquisition we're offering spot acquisitions, the ability to order a document.
Lorcan Dempsey: Increasingly will see more smart fulfillment around resource sharing the integration of acquisition resource sharing discovery to develop a richer view on to what is available to
Lorcan Dempsey: The person you know we will buy the professor. The book from Amazon rather than and
Lorcan Dempsey: Requested if it's not available within a certain amount of time. So this whole set of services beginning to provide facilitated access to a network of resources. And interestingly,
Lorcan Dempsey: We used to be in a situation where the collection drug discovery, you know you had a collection and you wanted to discover what was in the collection in a demand driven or a facilitated
Lorcan Dempsey: Environment.
Lorcan Dempsey: That sort of flipped a little bit you know discovery what somebody has access to tend to sometimes influence or drive the collection.
Lorcan Dempsey: And what comes out of this and
Lorcan Dempsey: As an early manifestation is a focus on full library discovery thinking about not just access to a literature research but access to the range of materials that you facilitate access to
Lorcan Dempsey: And I think over the next while we might see a sort of trend emerge here where you have different levels. So historically, then the library provided
Lorcan Dempsey: Access to the acquired library collection that what was bought and licensed you provided discovery to that.
Lorcan Dempsey: We're beginning to see through bento box displays through a focus on full library discovery and Bill will talk about this in a while, access to the website to events to various things to programs access to expertise by pulling up
Lorcan Dempsey: Relevant like librarians or experts in response to a particular and query and access to a broader facilitated collection. Yes, you have the articles you have the library catalog. But you also have a web search
Lorcan Dempsey: And you have potentially access to Google Scholar various other things. So we're beginning to see this broader array of things pulled in.
Lorcan Dempsey: Now, beyond that, over the horizon. Again, there's, how do we think about that for library experience. So I think we're seeing a move as the
Lorcan Dempsey: Library library discoveries are peeled away from that library collection to think about this broader array. And currently, we're sort of thinking about an array of services across wider aspects of the library. And I think that trend will continue as we think about that for library experience.
Lorcan Dempsey: The second thing.
Lorcan Dempsey: I said was important was thinking about mission so
Lorcan Dempsey: We did some work while ago with Ithaca SNR where we sort of pulled out a model saying that universities tend to have three poles.
Lorcan Dempsey: Three emphases and these will vary depending on the institution that you're in, you clearly there's a distinctive research focus where doctoral research, scholarship
Lorcan Dempsey: But then, you know, a focus on liberal education broad undergraduate education and for many institutions quite strong focus on preparation for professions on credentialing on moving forward and most institutions will have a combination of these. But they will
Lorcan Dempsey: And lean one way or the other and consortia are quite interesting because they're contained a mix of of these quite often BTA less so. Because it's a consortium appears Ohio link.
Lorcan Dempsey: Very much so. You have Case Western Reserve University, you have Ohio State very strong and research very strong and undergraduate education you have it somewhere like Franklin University very strong and career preparation.
Lorcan Dempsey: Other institutions, very strong undergraduate education but universities are going to get much more purposeful much clearer about where their distinctive value resides and sharpening what they do to
Lorcan Dempsey: deliver value in that context. And I think one result of that is thinking in the context of a CNI audience thinking about research institutions and I'm thinking about what has happened over the last while where
Lorcan Dempsey: Research itself has been affected by the pandemic. So a strong pandemic effect and is the impact on the research culture that you know we're experiencing all around us and now sort of temporary
Lorcan Dempsey: Temporary ceasing of some types of laboratory research, but at the same time.
Lorcan Dempsey: Really big focus on short circuiting processes and practice practices to get material to get research outputs out earlier.
Lorcan Dempsey: Big focus on collaboration across disciplines, across institutions urgency about reporting results much greater use of open channels.
Lorcan Dempsey: And then concern about assessing validity and and relevance, which has really come up in the last week or two at the same time, we could look at the way in which publishers are making deals for
Lorcan Dempsey: temporary access and various other things. They're sort of changing the way in which we think about how research is communicated
Lorcan Dempsey: Some of that will bound that will rebound some of that might stick but we're, we're in this period of questioning also about research stronger desire to showcase expertise potential contribution.
Lorcan Dempsey: Within the institution. So I think we'll see coming out of this research libraries, much more purposefully
Lorcan Dempsey: curating managing making more discoverable research outputs like pre prints and research data and also at becoming maybe more involved in at the disclosure. The discover ability of expertise on campus in a way that's already quite common in other other parts of the world and and
Lorcan Dempsey: A lot of activity in the US as well.
Lorcan Dempsey: The very clear we're very familiar with how this manifests itself, but I think this focus on Discover ability of institutional resources.
Lorcan Dempsey: Will grow. Currently, when we talk about discovery. Quite often we talk about
Lorcan Dempsey: Discovery of outside in resources, the ability to find articles, the ability to find books. The ability ability to find resources, more generally,
Lorcan Dempsey: I think one of the things that we'll see in research institutions. Now, is this focus on Discover ability of inside out resources discover ability of institutional assets institutional materials. So things like and
Lorcan Dempsey: Research Data pre Prince institution repository and I quite like the way that Purdue web page is organized because it very clearly shows at the top you have the discovery.
Lorcan Dempsey: Discovery of materials might be at the bottom you have discover ability of Purdue assets Purdue intellectual outputs. So you have produce he pubs, the institution repository publications
Lorcan Dempsey: You have a archive Special Collections and Archives and then you have PR, which gives access to research data. So these are all institutional assets that you're interested in sharing with the world.
Lorcan Dempsey: And the dynamic is very different here because sure you want your local population to see these and understand what you have
Lorcan Dempsey: But from a reputational point of view, from a scholarly point of view.
Lorcan Dempsey: From a dissemination point of view, you want to share these materials with the rest of the world. You want to push them out. You want to make them discoverable so that inside out focus
Lorcan Dempsey: Becoming more interesting. At the same time, we have seen quite a few libraries becoming involved in the development of expertise systems on campus. This is the one at Minnesota where you're looking at faculty profile and outputs and sharing those with the world. Number three, optimize
Lorcan Dempsey: Everybody is going to be very focused on optimizing against particular goals optimizing their collections their services.
Lorcan Dempsey: And really, you have to choose the goals and and you know in a teaching and learning institution, you will be very optimized on immediate support for learning students access retention thinking about that new experience.
Lorcan Dempsey: And some other environments you, you may optimize for other things just thinking about collections, there'll be much more optimizing for value and discussion with publishers very interesting in that regard.
Lorcan Dempsey: Probably more optimizing for open, certainly for curricular support and some emphasis on regional, local affairs and big push towards collaboration, I'd suggest there will be more collaboration.
Lorcan Dempsey: And I think one area that will maybe get a bit more emphasis is paralyzing collections diversifying collections representing and respecting
Lorcan Dempsey: communities that are overlooked shunned ignored and in the context of collections that have been developed, according to certain characteristics or criteria.
Lorcan Dempsey: So all of this means, though, that there will be an increased emphasis on decision support because to optimize you need data you need to understand
Lorcan Dempsey: How things are being used and what's not used, how to really focus in on
Lorcan Dempsey: At making choices. So data is required to support choices and that leads to dashboard.
Lorcan Dempsey: Now, Bill had had suggested talking about the operationalize in the collective collection report which we did for BTA last year.
Lorcan Dempsey: And really hear what we were looking at was discovery to delivery. The complex array of services within a major library consortium that allows them to share materials across those libraries.
Lorcan Dempsey: And discovery in that context, it's part of a very complex ecosystem because Illinois is part to VGA, it's also part of Illinois infrastructure Ohio is in Ohio link.
Lorcan Dempsey: Records is in policy, but also in a variety of other organizations, potentially, so we have a very rich, very diverse very complex ecosystem within which
Lorcan Dempsey: Libraries are sharing material and making decisions about their collections at the same time. These are large relatively autonomous self standing relatively wealthy institutions that that that are building large collections Illinois good example.
Lorcan Dempsey: So what we recommend it at a very high level is that the libraries begin to think about the optimal distribution of collections.
Lorcan Dempsey: How do you begin to manage your collections at the at the level of the consortium, as well as at the level of the institution to mean that libraries can specialize because the network will take care of things. They're not specializing in
Lorcan Dempsey: Or that shared print facilities are in, in particular areas or that you do eventually move to a prospective coordination model where you share interest in subjects but thinking about the distribution of collections that cross this optimal distribution.
Lorcan Dempsey: This needs to be supported by efficient network fulfillment tying together the various requesting delivery discovery systems that currently exist in a smarter way.
Lorcan Dempsey: But all of this depends on system wide awareness. This all depends on knowing what's available.
Lorcan Dempsey: Knowing where it is knowing what terms, it's available under and a lot of the inefficiency of the current system is that you lack forward knowledge of those things that systems have to go and look or people have to make joins between systems. So it's a very fragmented environment.
Lorcan Dempsey: So from a system wide awareness point of view, what we were saying was that increasingly, we will see
Lorcan Dempsey: The need to think about more data driven decisions more data driven systems more data driven choices around integrations choices around where collections go distribution of collections.
Lorcan Dempsey: And this will mean sort of greater integration between discovery resource sharing and acquisition because
Lorcan Dempsey: They're all about making choices about materials, it will mean greater and coordination between shared print digitization specialization at individual institutions.
Lorcan Dempsey: All of this depends on better system wide awareness better data depends on dashboard and pulling transaction data holdings data and acquisitions data into
Lorcan Dempsey: A way of looking at things. Now this is very aspirational. It's on the horizon. But we can see that we're sort of gradually moving in this direction where we want to have ways of making decisions about collections that
Lorcan Dempsey: Discovery can contribute data to. But then, because we're in this facilitated environment might be influenced by what happens, we can see in the licensing arena consortium manager in Rome from the same company, but a lot of data about
Lorcan Dempsey: What is being bought and sub
Lorcan Dempsey: Recently renamed lot of coverage around that at the moment we provide greenglass in the monographs area. So I think increasingly we're going to see dashboards.
Lorcan Dempsey: Decision support systems that help manage this increasingly fluid way in which we look at collection. So the discovery choices will be made in data driven environments that they helped shape because choices that people making discovery.
Lorcan Dempsey: Can be factored in, you have downloads, you have, you know, the whole way in which they play in this ecosystem. But then, in turn, they're shaped by because you want to offer for discovery.
Lorcan Dempsey: Things that you recognize or valuable. So in this sort of more collective more facilitation more fluid environment really sort of beginning to see data play a bigger part
Lorcan Dempsey: So that was what I wanted to say rediscovering discovery three examples of how the current changes may make us think a little bit differently about discovery very much in a library environment.
Lorcan Dempsey: Thank you.
William Mischo: Thank you very much lorcan soon. Everybody can see my screen here.
William Mischo: We're going to talk a little bit about Michael and I are going to talk a little bit about
William Mischo: Really an extension of what we did in 2017 at a CNI briefing.
William Mischo: Discovery trends in particular we're gonna talk about dental systems, what we learned from transaction log analysis and then
William Mischo: Some of the other elements that are going into what we're seeing is really a total transformation in discovery lorcan touched on a lot of those points. I think that's a
William Mischo: Very good introduction
William Mischo: Again, we've also opted here a little bit for putting together some fairly dense slides.
William Mischo: idea being that these can be useful for later reference and
William Mischo: We go through this fairly quickly. So we're still thinking that library discovery. This is at a crossroads. So Roger. Roger. Roger schonfeld wrote
William Mischo: A nice briefing in 2014 about academic libraries reconsidering the original for discovery.
William Mischo: Tom and his group has done a lot of work at Stanford. And it's a quarter for kathryn kuhlman about a revolution discovered, he's gonna talk about that later. And then the Ohio link White Paper, which was referenced.
William Mischo: By Diane
William Mischo: And she also actually give you a link to this earlier presentation.
William Mischo: This is this Ohio link manifesto, essentially, which
William Mischo: Basically is proposing that we re examine how we're designing iOS systems and discovery systems that typically they've centered on the on the collection and not on the user and that we need to do is look at systems that are much more
William Mischo: User dependent
William Mischo: They talk a lot about some of the things that Larkin mentioned the full library discovery and insight all libraries and providing modern business intelligence to library systems.
William Mischo: Again, I'm just gonna go over this quickly full library discovery is something that a lot of people
William Mischo: Have tried to incorporate now into discovery systems. We spend a lot of time working on this.
William Mischo: Moving beyond the retrieval of collection materials, including local information local services local content in our case, we've integrated websites of guide information subject specialists List of course manager and content, etc.
William Mischo: The goal is really to bundle interconnect these related information services. This interoperability.
William Mischo: Briefly, historically, there's a few of you. They can still remember what we used to call super catalogs.
William Mischo: With the loaded abstraction indexing services. Some of you remember when we libraries reloading the BRS software locally and learning indexing services.
William Mischo: Moved from there to federated search systems to web scale discovery systems which are now used literally thousands of academic libraries.
William Mischo: web scale discovery systems are characterized by having the metadata full text content aggregated into a single consolidated index. So you're searching one large system.
William Mischo: More recently, we've seen your introduction. What are really hybrid dental style systems that that do utilize some broadcast searching some federated searching techniques, but they're typically done over the top of web scale discovery systems.
William Mischo: What dental systems are characterized with by having the results displays resented it up zoned or a partition screen display.
William Mischo: With content group by type and material. So typically, there's a search for articles to search for books to search for on the library website to search for journals by title, etc.
William Mischo: As a very rich, rich literature on web scale discovery services.
William Mischo: As a nice probiotic food by Francois ball. I see receive leads
William Mischo: The literature centers around the number of issues that are connected with web scale discovery services. One is a general confusion with blended result displays.
William Mischo: So a lot of people that moved into bento displays are entered style systems are basically doing this in reaction to users concerned.
William Mischo: With seen displays that that blend book results my graphic results journal article results dissertations newspaper articles all into one results display.
William Mischo: This affects known item retrieval and the relevancy rankings, you might be doing a new one. I am searching, it would be on the second or third page of a blended result displaying a web scale discovery system.
William Mischo: But also are seeing things about the concerns about the lack of full library discovery, the lack of access to local services and concerns about better addressing known item searching
William Mischo: Advantages of Banjo type system, again, is it does partition results material type of format. One of the things that we found, and others have found is that
William Mischo: A large percentage of searches that have been there, done by users are known item searches, but they adjust the web scale discovery issues of Linda results relevancy ranking known item access they incorporate full library discovery features.
William Mischo: And they are able to provide nice one click links out to full text. Now this is something that a number of us have been working on.
William Mischo: To try to
William Mischo: Expedite full text retrieval and bypass the winkers home.
William Mischo: Example of our page. And we're going to talk about some of the specifics here walking showed a
William Mischo: slide of this also technically, if you look at the results in the articles page on the upper left hand side you'll see links to open access articles links to table of contents PDF links links to Article data.
William Mischo: Look at the article link on the upper left. Number two, you'll see links to data sets.
William Mischo: And these are all done by essentially integrating on a number of what our display siloed services like into the into the battle style display.
William Mischo: And here's a sort of a model of our display and the elements in the
William Mischo: In the bento display. We have a suggestion box articles in the left catalog items on the on the center subjects suggestions on the right we have a place to do some advertising.
And
William Mischo: This all makes up our mental style this one.
William Mischo: The features are bento system. We provide a lot of context specific adaptive search assistance spelling suggestions links to live guys direct links for frequently
William Mischo: Perform searches women suggestions we identified GOI, so the person types of DUI and we put a light to directly to the dx, do I order dui.org site.
William Mischo: A link to our Ask a Librarian online chat journal title links directly to PDF for the available DUI publisher open URL custom value added links.
William Mischo: Next slide talks about that. We also try to record recommend several relevant subject and I services and provide links to the to those that when you click down open up at the point of completed search in the library and in department, a library subject content.
William Mischo: Again, these are all
William Mischo: Following the philosophy, providing full library discovered
William Mischo: Specifically in terms of our system we've added a number of sort of evaluated links over the top of the article API's. So we use obstacle EDS and Scopus API for article results.
William Mischo: We take these results. Take the deal. I do arise out of these results, then they a circus legal lot and provide links to
William Mischo: Clickable old metric badges to the metric attention scores.
William Mischo: Using school likes we pull out the data set an article data links on paywall pulls out the Open Access links roseann pulls out the direct PDF Lisa is your table of content links that PDF links are on top of it. The least we get from the obstacle discovered servers.
William Mischo: Here's a list and
William Mischo: We expect you to memorize this of the mental libraries that we're following
William Mischo: Go back refer to this later if you want to look at some of the some of the examples.
William Mischo: We're looking at about 42 different than two libraries academic libraries right now and
William Mischo: Interestingly enough, we, we found in the last year about 10 libraries have dropped it into approach. So, this used to be a figure that was over 50 libraries. Some of those approval installation. So we're going to talk a little bit about the problems with the payroll API's later.
William Mischo: But we have a spreadsheet that sort of characterizes the features feature sets of all of these pencil style instances.
William Mischo: They all have a books and articles. So everybody is recommending monographs in the online catalog in articles from typically a web scale Discovery Service.
William Mischo: And the web scale discovery services that are being used for articles, you'll see it was a good number of them are using summon but number of rooms are using primo and upscaling Discovery Service.
William Mischo: In addition to the articles and books, we're finding that website search is probably the most popular
William Mischo: In terms of what else being provided. There's 34 of the 42 providing that research guide some 24 journal title links are total searches databases digital questions search repository contacts, which is something that
William Mischo: The number of us are providing as grown dramatically recently and it's been a team members, providing
William Mischo: So in terms of observations about these mental systems feature sets. Very a lot of bento versions to not do spell checking did not provide top level direct links.
William Mischo: Spell chicken turns out to be critically important, you'll see later, we look at an analysis of our click through is only three employ the one click to full text without going through the link resolved or option which are uses Illinois find very, very useful.
William Mischo: The whole fact
William Mischo: Varies sometimes it's a separate application a viewfinder black light. Sometimes it's part of the web scale Discovery Service. So we are seeing systems where
William Mischo: The catalog results are from the web scale service article results from the Red Skull service, perhaps the archives managed company results or digital collections might also be from the web scale service, but they're just being separate until all windows.
William Mischo: bento provides a lot of local control and customization. You can see that by looking at the various options various
William Mischo: Options of people have been using, but does require programming service staff maintenance and
William Mischo: A fairly
William Mischo: Significant amount of work to woefully maintain
William Mischo: ticketing system. There are a couple of systems now that are available that are being used in one of the one institution, but a lot of the systems are still homegrown
William Mischo: We'll talk a little bit about customer transaction logs, we think is very important to look at user search behaviors and what we learned from us to search behaviors. We have a very heavily instrumented transaction log a program
William Mischo: It records all user actions suggestions. The system makes although surgery with formulations.
William Mischo: Identify sessions on all the click through is to click through is actually routed through one of our websites where the recorded and then redirected so we know our click through into external resources.
William Mischo: We have a lot of transaction logs, going back to something like 11 or 12 years why the study goes up through April 2018 where we looked at a
William Mischo: million and a half searches a million and a half, click through and then took out a sample of about 5400 searches will read the searches analyze these four types of search success rate typical user behaviors.
William Mischo: Two important points two or three important points here. One of the things that we've seen is that the average words per query is going up dramatically. So we're now at 6.1 words per query.
William Mischo: There's a lot of copy and paste searching where people are taking results. We also know that from our focus group interviews and from a user survey we did last year where people are searching Google or Google Scholar pulling out references and pasting them into our system.
William Mischo: There are only about a little over two searches per session 60% of the sessions are one search
William Mischo: We look at the use of our suggestions.
William Mischo: By 20% of the searches the suggestions made in almost a third of those the person follows a suggestion, particularly the Did you mean spelling suggestions and direct links, we're seeing a lot a lot of local dry searches.
William Mischo: This has been growing over the years. This is the sigh hub phenomenon where people will love to put a dry into a system and what the full text.
William Mischo: The other really important point is that in the sample of the 5400 searches. We found out about 64% of them now, which is going up. The last time we looked at this are known item searches.
William Mischo: Often, these are title word searches author and a couple words from the titles many cases the full citation. The fact when we looked at the sample.
William Mischo: Percentage and a half of these searches were known item, which is a lot of the sample, but this extrapolates to 45 per day or people are literally copying and pasting full citation into our system.
William Mischo: If we look at the usage within the bento article laser or 50% or 57% of the usage books and monographs less
William Mischo: Back a lot of your use of our suggestions added links, even though some things like the library links or context, which is one 10th of 1% is still means it's more than once happening more than once a day.
William Mischo: In fact, if you look at the click through actions here.
William Mischo: For last month, or the month of April hundred 41,000 searches 3700 of almost 4000 clicks per day for full text clicks or 1600 per day.
William Mischo: A lot of clicks into browsing, a lot of clicks into our being API results. The Did you mean spelling suggestion is 55 per day.
William Mischo: So those systems that don't offer spelling suggestions or don't offer. Did you mean you can see how heavy lift lets us literally 55 times a day in our system.
William Mischo: The open access least 20 per day. This has been increasing since we started teaching at the Illinois the direct way suggestions. These other commonly frequent searches of about 20 per day. It is the journalists ABOUT 20 a day.
William Mischo: Ask a Librarian four times a day. And again, even emailing a subject like read twice per day. We have a lot of library services that are not used every day so
William Mischo: Many services us twice a day, we, we consider successful
William Mischo: We did i is your search user survey November 2019 but 483 responses.
William Mischo: To 30 users provided comments 24 the response for daily users of the system and 40% of them were daily or weekly users. We got a lot of nice suggestions, but there was a high level of satisfaction with the entire bento approach.
William Mischo: Report. I put upon slide here, which is
William Mischo: A question here about
William Mischo: Discovery in general, I think a lot of the literature kind of centers around this. It has to do with rather than a library should even be the starting point for users.
William Mischo: Seeking content as an ice. I think I suppose our survey question but important. It's a gateway function which dipped over the years and now it's gone back up. So there's a growing consensus. I think when you use this at the library is in fact a valid starting point.
William Mischo: You might argue that library systems have always played a supplementary role. And that's true in many cases.
William Mischo: And you might also, I do a lot of people have our focus should be in at noon item discovery. We've done an awful lot in our system. And you can see that with the knowing that in searches at 64% that the importance of providing access to known items searches.
William Mischo: Number of plans here for next steps within dental systems.
William Mischo: Take a look at this as a lot of mega indexes, especially discovery services. These are dimensions and lands Tom's gonna talk about machine learning and AI techniques.
William Mischo: We still have a lot of complementary digital services with open data. Data Management Services application metrics visualizations of course manager content factory profile systems that we can add in
William Mischo: I'm gonna turn this over to Michael now is going to talk a little bit about our privilege invitation.
Michael Norman: Thank you, Bill. Hopefully you can hear me unmute. There we go. And I thought it'd be a good idea to just give you a little introduction to
Michael Norman: The implementation that we're going through for
Michael Norman: primo. And so in June 2020 we're going to be migrating to actually vs Alma and primo V system.
Michael Norman: And that's gonna that's really a new deployment model that combines the back end processes of both Alma
Michael Norman: And primo into one integrated platform. Currently we work with separate systems in that with the Voyager and our catalog discovery is view, fine. So that will be a new process for us really going into this combined back end processes and then
Michael Norman: You know, really almost in real time, that being reflected in the pre movie library catalog and we're transitioning
Michael Norman: With the 91 other 90 other libraries and I share consortia so in and what kind of systems are all my in primo the
Michael Norman: Alma really is a unified resource management system that allows libraries to manage their print, but
Michael Norman: Really what we're looking forward to is helping manage our electronic resources and services really into single environment that's that's going to be a big change for us. So we're looking forward to that.
Michael Norman: For an electronic title. Just a reminder to everybody, all my really creates an electronic inventory. So a portfolio that really then permeates Alma
Michael Norman: And associates the electronic access and primo so primo catalog and all instances that it really can match on identifiers. So
Michael Norman: Alma also has a network zone that we're really getting accustomed to that takes over the function of that union catalog. The network zone.
Michael Norman: We we've encountered some problems with that within the consortia the networks on is really built on a using a first and premise.
Michael Norman: And that is really the first copy that comes in to the catalog, the Union catalog networks own really becomes the master record for the consortium.
Michael Norman: And this master record is a chair bibliographic record that is linked to our local holdings, or the local holdings of each of the libraries that have that that title that
Michael Norman: Material and much of our local data and we do have a lot of it, particularly in our rare books and Special Collections materials.
Michael Norman: Really didn't migrate over from Voyager into that master record. And so we've been doing a lot of customization work to reintroduce that local information. There are ways to do it. But if we're we are having to put some
Michael Norman: Time and effort into that. And then one of the big issues that we've encountered and Bill can talk more about this is really these localized URLs.
Michael Norman: To a resources populating the master record. This would be a link to a recent electronic resource that one of the other I share libraries may have and
Michael Norman: Then that pops into the master record. But we may not have access to it or it has their proxy appended to it. So we run into some issues with that. So,
Michael Norman: Just important, even though we do have access to primo through that with the consortia we actually had access to primo
Michael Norman: Six, seven years ago, we had a pilot where we had access to it for for about three years. And then we went away from it. And so now we've come back to it, but
Michael Norman: We do want to emphasize that easy search bento will remain the library's primary and default Discovery Service available basically in the single search box on the library's gate web page.
Michael Norman: primo will replace view find as the catalog search. We'll talk a little bit more about how we're doing that here in a later slide.
Michael Norman: But we are really testing certain features of the primo Central Index, particularly the pro quest collections, which when we had primo previously.
Michael Norman: Six, seven years ago, we did not have access to the the progress collections. A lot of the newspaper collections at that time. And so now we do
Michael Norman: And so we're testing, a lot of those features with the primo Central Index and we do still continue to see the benefits of nearly the separate into zones.
Michael Norman: Here, Bill. It's got the image up of libraries front gateway. So there's the single search box.
Michael Norman: When you do a search within it, then you get results. And so again, as Bill was showing earlier and lorcan was showing earlier. You've got your article section there.
Michael Norman: You've got in the middle there is our library catalog. And so here in a few weeks primo will be will be populating that and then
Michael Norman: One of the things we're looking forward to we've been testing and we may be able to offer since we do have access to the primo Central Index. The primo central Discovery Index.
Michael Norman: Is a newspaper articles and we've had some of our users as Bill was doing some of these surveys is that or comments, is that newspapers is one of the things that maybe they'd like to see emphasize a little better. And so we do have access to that all we run into
Michael Norman: It's really painful right now that we're, we're trying to work through as these API issues and Bill mentioned this, and I mentioned a little earlier is that
Michael Norman: We are currently using the primo search API to pull in results from the library catalog into easy search and we are very pleased with how quickly results came in from view fi
Michael Norman: And it many times it's less than a second to pull in those results but averages. Maybe one to two seconds response time with primo were encountering really some slowness and performance of those
Michael Norman: With those API's and the results coming back through those API calls. And it's really averaging about 10 to 11 seconds per search and
Michael Norman: And we're getting a lot of comments from testers about just how slow that is
Michael Norman: And so API performance for the primo Cadillac really really def definitely needs to be optimized and proved to gain
Michael Norman: Really the full benefits. We have a VC search right now and we've been working with x labor's we were hoping that maybe some improvements are coming here in a few weeks and but those API's are
Michael Norman: Just really critical. And you saw all the API's that Bill mentioned that he's pulled into into the articles, being able to pull in some of this other other information. So I think that's the last slide there but
William Mischo: Then we can turn it over to Tom Yeah.
Tom Cramer: Find the right screen to share
Tom Cramer: Alright that appears to be working correctly on my end, I'm going to proceed. Hello everyone.
Tom Cramer: It's a pleasure to almost be in San Diego with you kind of wish I were there right now, after two and a half months at home.
Tom Cramer: I'm going to talk a little bit about a different facet of discovery which is some of the things that seem to be emerging right now on the on the leading edge. In some cases the bleeding edge but which may soon become core parts of all of our discovery environments in one way or another.
Tom Cramer: And the first of them is linked data and I used to do a lot of work with Dean craft of Cornell and you have this beautiful slide showing Eden and the Tower of Babel and how linked data would be able to basically be Babel fish.
Tom Cramer: And allow us to work collectively across all of the different schema and vocabularies on technologies and domains where we have our data.
Tom Cramer: And I think we, we still haven't achieved that. But we are making some progress. And one of the areas where I think
Tom Cramer: The progress is most notable and where LinkedIn is most important is when link data serves as the bridge or the gateway between library data.
Tom Cramer: And our ways of representing knowledge and resources and that of the web in general. And we really look at this in two ways. Getting library data out onto the web for discovery reuse and linking but also pulling data from the wider web into our environments.
Tom Cramer: And as beautiful and as much fun as it is to talk about oncology's and RDF and the Semantic Web really we're most libraries are interested in link data is because it's going to enhance discovery.
Tom Cramer: And so through the LD for p and the LD for L projects and the series of projects that have been funded by the Mellon.
Tom Cramer: Foundation and in partnership primarily between Cornell Stanford Harvard University and the University of Iowa.
Tom Cramer: We've been focusing most recently on seeing if we can augment existing discovery environments with linked data features.
Tom Cramer: Of one thing that we do know about LinkedIn is that it's not going to appear quickly in it's not going to appear magically where one day, everyone is using market based systems in the current environment. And then the next day will be in this new
Tom Cramer: Wonderful and somehow different world where everyone is using different interfaces different systems and different fields.
Tom Cramer: So we've focused
Tom Cramer: As part of the LD for key grants and the LD for community on trying to do incremental improvements to existing discovery environments. And we've identified five areas where we think this might be most fruitful.
Tom Cramer: The. Those are represented here and I'll give you a sample pair for each one of these. And we're I think we're seeing some progress and where we're seeing some challenges.
Tom Cramer: The first represents a way to get library data out on to the web in general and
Tom Cramer: In many cases, many of our catalogs are being indexed by Google and other harvesters and search engines. One way to accelerate that is by doing better and more rigorous schema markup.
Tom Cramer: schema.org markup in their catalogs, there's exposes the data to harvesters working be incorporated into the web of data and then eventually emerged through search engine optimization and higher searches.
Tom Cramer: We have over the course of the LDP project seeing some progress on this. We're, by and large, focusing on black light as an open source application using solar underneath.
Tom Cramer: For a couple of reasons. One is that lots of the LD for P institutions are using black light to it's open source, and using common technologies which even if you're using you find or if you're using a commercial search engine. A lot of the lessons and techniques from portable
Tom Cramer: The second area and this really exemplifies bringing external data from the web into library discovery environments is knowledge panels.
Tom Cramer: And I think people are generally familiar with this from Google, we're now beginning to see this more and more commonly within library discovery interfaces.
Tom Cramer: I believe it's a it's now a feature that is included in primo or at least some remote instances.
Tom Cramer: And this is a great example from the University of Wisconsin Wisconsin Madison, which has a home built discovery environment where they put a lot of work into integrating the knowledge panel, but also
Tom Cramer: Building service around it, including what are the ethical and service considerations for when they find that data.
Tom Cramer: With I'm doing more work and more consideration about how to get better forms of browse. I think it's telling that most browse interfaces from this decade look like they may have been
Tom Cramer: Coded or designed 10 years ago or even 20 years ago spatial browser seems to be the one. The one exception to that. And we're seeing some good breakthroughs there.
Tom Cramer: A semantic search. So instead of searching just on the text. Can you search on the meaning of the text. So if I search for a heart attack. Can I actually get search results for my own party or infarctions
Tom Cramer: The best example of this. And this is using mesh from the National Library of Medicine and search there. This is yet to become common technology or or common appearance in library most library search engines, but perhaps us on our, on our future.
Tom Cramer: And then finally, as Bill was suggesting, I was really glad to see this type ahead auto suggest and spell check suggestions really had a chance to see
Tom Cramer: People helping with both million article search but also general browse and progress on this especially semantically aware progress would be a great advance
Tom Cramer: We've seen some very good work on this from the University of against in Belgium, we recently presented on a black light link data workshop that we held at Stanford last September and October.
Tom Cramer: Of all of these techniques. The one that seems the most relevant in the most visible is the knowledge panels and at the same workshop that I just referenced.
Tom Cramer: About 25 people came together and began to crowdsource a document on how to add a knowledge panel to your existing discovery environment.
Tom Cramer: This document is links. You can see the Bitly at the bottom so bit the LD four dash KP dash recipe.
Tom Cramer: And it's written as a how to document. It's currently draft, but it covers everything from what is the knowledge panel, why you might want to use it to identifying data sources.
Tom Cramer: Considering the minimum amount of data that you need to have a quality display. And then the technical strategies for actually implementing it.
Tom Cramer: If you are interested in any of these techniques, any of these advances, or if you have your own advances that are working with linked data.
Tom Cramer: We would welcome you in the LD for discovery affinity group. This is a set of bi weekly calls that are open to anyone. There's an extensive knowledge base that has been built up
Tom Cramer: Over about the last must be eight months or one year at this point and the kosher is or who to con from Cornell University and Jesse from Stanford. And you can see at the bottom, or if you do a search on LD for discovery affinity group is not surprisingly, the first result in defined
Tom Cramer: The other area that I would like to forecast just briefly is artificial intelligence and the potential to impact library discovery.
Tom Cramer: And I believe there are two big opportunities emerging specific to discovery. Now there are a lot of places and a lot of ways that artificial intelligence.
Tom Cramer: Is going to end is already affected the library. The library services in the information environment.
Tom Cramer: This includes back of house operations. This includes digital curation. This includes things like chat bots and reference services.
Tom Cramer: But specifically on Discovery. I think we're seeing that artificial intelligence introduces it just changes the equation in terms of the kinds of metadata that are possible to derive and produce and it also can set new opportunities around new interfaces.
Tom Cramer: So, um, artificial intelligence is something that might scale in a way that our libraries are technical services departments.
Tom Cramer: And even the networks of data exchange are have been unable to do or at the same pace at the same scale in the same expanse
Tom Cramer: And looking at the common techniques that are really emerging as now, not even state of the art, but very commonplace in many different industries.
Tom Cramer: The ability to process, lots of different formats of information, whether it's text, images or time based media.
Tom Cramer: Are really able to generate lots of what looks like traditional based metadata. So this could be techniques for named entity recognition or text classification for texts for images.
Tom Cramer: Doing about this or labeling for descriptive metadata generation or recognizing objects that are within an image which might be helpful for description or just extracting parts like better, whose car.
Tom Cramer: For time based media to speech to text is really a game changer, not only in accessibility, but just overall discovery.
Tom Cramer: And there's lots of examples where structural analysis of things like video allow people to pick apart these complex time based objects and get just the captions or just the segments that are interesting.
Tom Cramer: I think all of these techniques are going to become standard for library processing in the not too distant future, I think, actually, within the next five years, if not 10
Tom Cramer: The second opportunity that we're really seeing emerge with artificial intelligence is new interfaces. I think one of the best examples of this. There's actually some
Tom Cramer: Academic ones that I could cite but none that I could find right before this presentation running in production. But Google is one that you might be familiar with. And it's reverse image search
Tom Cramer: So by entering an image. Can you find other images that are like this. So here's an example of a killer rabbit from medieval times. If you paste this into Google Images, you'll actually find lots of different
Tom Cramer: images that are like this. Now, this can be done completely without any text and without any descriptive metadata. It's a potentially revolutionary approach.
Tom Cramer: We also see different types of interfaces for different types of recognition. This is an example of a Knowledge Graph exploration from, you know,
Tom Cramer: Which might be familiar with people in this audience. And this is actually interesting because there are two ways to enter this one is by keyword search of a concept.
Tom Cramer: But another bot is by uploading or examining an existing document.
Tom Cramer: You know, will understand what the concepts are within that document and then draw links to other documents and other concepts within this environment. It's a completely different kind of discovery and search very different from new items searching breathing keyword searching
Tom Cramer: At Stanford I must admit, we are still getting our feet under us for AI. And I think the exciting thing is it's probably true almost everywhere, even people who weren't far ahead of us, we're still at the very beginning of a revolution.
Tom Cramer: We have two sets of projects going on. One is around theses and dissertations and can we do more and richer.
Tom Cramer: descriptive metadata and descriptive work on these to enhance discovery we happen to have the full text for the theses and dissertations that were positive electronically at Stanford. So this is a recruiting round.
Tom Cramer: And currently, we're looking at comparing multiple different models and seeing how we might expose the richer metadata through various interfaces.
Tom Cramer: We're doing the same thing with images with image labeling with object recognition and with image based search. So, my colleague at Stanford, Claudia angle has done a great case study comparing what happens when you use commercial search engines or commercial
Tom Cramer: Machine learning and just clarify Google and auto ML Google Cloud Vision and auto ML and how good are these for academic purposes.
Tom Cramer: And you at the bottom of this. You can see some of the results. They've been working with with on basically under described set of 50,000 images taken from an archaeological dig over the last 20 years
Tom Cramer: And as I said, I think we are all collectively at the beginning of this and there's a real opportunity for libraries, archives, and museums.
Tom Cramer: To better understand and to build our own capacity for leveraging artificial intelligence at for discovery, but for other areas as well.
Tom Cramer: With the National Library of knowing the British Library Smithsonian Institute and the development astronaut in France, Stanford is helping form a open community which looks very similar to others in the space.
Tom Cramer: For things like triple if it's in fact patterned after trolley if is can we collectively work together to understand what the use cases are built common technologies models and capacity building.
Tom Cramer: So if anyone is interested or is already active in artificial intelligence. We invite you to start participating in this as well.
Tom Cramer: And with that, I will end, and see if there is any time for Q AMP. A in discussions and I think for any of the panelists.
Diane Goldenberg-Hart: Thanks. Thanks so much, Tom. And thank you to all of our panelists. What a wonderful sweeping overview of discovery systems. The demands on these systems, the potential really extraordinary. Thank you so much for that great.
Diane Goldenberg-Hart: Collection of presentations and given the hour. I'm mindful of folks time and we already do have some questions. So let me just dive right in. Beginning with Rob Catalano
Diane Goldenberg-Hart: Who comments regarding primo with 10 to 11 seconds per search question mark, what are reasonable performance expectations for for search, shouldn't it be sub sub second response for API queries as we already have today via solar
Michael Norman: I would, yes. That's what I would anticipate bill can probably talk better on this than I can. But yeah, we did a little study just to get that information back to actually Russ about the API calls.
Michael Norman: And just the speed that those were coming back and and so
Michael Norman: That's, that's what the time is on those. And so where were they they've actually done some modifications to the primo search API to see if they can speed that up. And then we're also
Michael Norman: One. We're going to be on production server farm here in a few weeks. And so we're hoping that that might speed up some of the activity, too, but but bill you you would know more about performance of API's and I will
William Mischo: Not typical search for us.
William Mischo: We will use apps. Go API Scopus open paywall
William Mischo: School likes all metric
William Mischo: The other ones are browsing being simple send out 10 or 15 asynchronous searches at one time to get things back in a matter of seconds of you find is the other very fast one. So yeah, a response on that we're seeing, you know, in that's anything above four seconds is really only acceptable.
Okay, usual
Diane Goldenberg-Hart: Thank you. Thanks very much. Thanks for that question. Rob. Alright, the next question comes from Stephen bell
Diane Goldenberg-Hart: When you talk about AI in discovery could that include voice bots. They can search the discovery layer and return results on a screen or send to an email and work with common search assistance, people have on their phones and homes, etc.
Tom Cramer: Yeah, absolutely. I'll answer that though others might want to jump in as well. There's one of the at the fantastic futures conferences that we've held for the last two years.
Tom Cramer: Much of the activity around AI has been around natural language understanding and conversational agents. So clearly this is a different modality.
Tom Cramer: For conducting queries. And one of the interesting things to me is the way the AI stacks upon itself. I'm Karen karaoke from W GB. He has been very active in
Tom Cramer: Using AI for better understanding and access to videos and what she and her colleagues at Brandeis University have demonstrated is it's actually keep parsing.
Tom Cramer: Teasing apart video is about nine or 11 different functions that staff on top of each other.
Tom Cramer: So you do segment analysis and you fit and find out where the captions are you extract the captions and you do the OCR on the captions and then you do entity extraction on the effect of text. So I think conversational agents are just one more link in the chain.
Diane Goldenberg-Hart: You just think
William Mischo: I'd also add that Eric Freiburg from upscale EDS does a demo of the use of Alexa with with PepsiCo EDS for
William Mischo: Voice Search and the results are spoken back to
Interesting.
William Mischo: So it's very Richard
Tom Cramer: lorcan you seem to be on mute. If you're talking
Lorcan Dempsey: We're all experimenting with LX certainly that's, I mean, there is still as a gap, just thinking from my own experience. Yeah, I'm
Lorcan Dempsey: Not asking for Irish names or various other things. It's, it's, but it's it's definitely worth exploration now.
Diane Goldenberg-Hart: Interesting. Thanks, Stephen.
Diane Goldenberg-Hart: Now, another question.
Diane Goldenberg-Hart: Thanks for the wonderful and rich presentation, the complexity of the sources that need to be managed is unbelievably complex
Diane Goldenberg-Hart: I don't mean this question to come across as a kind of, well, what have you done for me lately question, but many libraries are struggling also to integrate museum objects into their discovery systems. Can someone comment on that aspect of discovery.
Diane Goldenberg-Hart: I want to take that one.
William Mischo: out another panelist, I think.
Tom Cramer: I can. We've looked at doing this with a couple of different the archaeology center at Stanford and also the museum and the challenge or one of the challenges is just the differences in the level of description and also the schema.
Diane Goldenberg-Hart: Is just
Tom Cramer: The interfaces are
Tom Cramer: And what the indices expect and what the patrons might expect, given the current layouts for library based environments are very challenging.
Tom Cramer: It seems to me that the bento actually could be a good approach to this and also approaches like knowledge panels or like hyperlinks that link out to other types of environments potentially successful ways of doing this.
William Mischo: We've been part of immersive scholarship grant that was awarded
William Mischo: To North Carolina State University, we've been looking at
William Mischo: Virtual reality implementations and
William Mischo: I guess a lot of different
William Mischo: Emerging immersive technologies and these are all very fertile areas. And at some point, we need to we need to try to integrate some of these things.
William Mischo: And reform forward on a lot of fronts.
Diane Goldenberg-Hart: I just, I just thought I would put that question out to our attendees as well. If there's anyone in the audience who has any experience with this or thoughts about it.
Diane Goldenberg-Hart: If you just raise your hand. I can turn your microphone on. And you can participate live here in the conversation, since we still do have quite a large audience.
Diane Goldenberg-Hart: But that's a great question, and thank you so much for bringing that to our panel today.
Diane Goldenberg-Hart: And just to relay from Rob Catalano
Diane Goldenberg-Hart: Who asked about the search, search times you just thanks you for your responses and his common is that these were all great presentation. So thank you so much.
Diane Goldenberg-Hart: And just to reiterate what I said, I'm sorry. Go ahead.
Tom Cramer: Oh, I was just going to lose if there aren't obvious questions. I was wondering if I could ask Bill on one of the things I'm curious about if your research is uncovered where our library patrons typically starting their search the library homepage bento or the catalog.
Tom Cramer: I don't know if you have any data on that.
William Mischo: Yeah, and the fact that that's interesting because we just had a recent discussion about this.
William Mischo: We kind of looked at the literature that ethic asked for us, our survey asked people, where do they start their searches that was for a couple of other large surveys
William Mischo: Of users asking, you know, do you start your search at an API service or at the catalog or at
William Mischo: Search Engine or in the library.
William Mischo: And of course, it's very answers and people are starting their searches in all these different places.
William Mischo: Some of the set for for us comes down to this idea that we want to be able to provide the best delivery services, we can. So, you know, we know that people are starting at Google, or Google Scholar, they're going, they're coming in from off campus now which everybody is
William Mischo: And they don't have the proxy week in front of the
William Mischo: Google Scholar search. And in fact, it's impossible to even do this within Google.
William Mischo: To put a proxy in front, they're being asked to pay for articles, they're being asked.
William Mischo: to login to articles.
William Mischo: So we're seeing a lot of people doing these copy and paste searching where they're literally taking something from Google. Google Scholar.
William Mischo: And pasting it into our system. And we're really encouraging that was hearing that and user surveys, we heard. We saw that in our survey we did in November and
William Mischo: Again, I think better integration of all these different silos, that's what we're all trying to do.
Lorcan Dempsey: I
William Mischo: Am. That's the holy grail.
Lorcan Dempsey: The museum question was interesting. It just going back to Tom's answer and some of what Bill was saying, it seems to me that
Lorcan Dempsey: You know, for a long time, we were very obsessed with Google like searches, but even Google doesn't do Google like searches anymore.
Lorcan Dempsey: You know, you do a Google search and you get back set you get back a river of results. I mean, there's a lot of advertising at the top, but you know they have the knowledge card.
Lorcan Dempsey: If there are scholarly articles. They pull them out if their images they pull them out if there's an us they pull that out. So I mean, effectively, they're giving you a sort of bento style result without the boxes.
Lorcan Dempsey: So, as I say, even Google doesn't do a Google like search anymore. So I think, you know, Tom's point about the different you know library archives museum.
Lorcan Dempsey: Shared searching cross domain searching, as you know, called us in a previous life, you know, big aspiration for many years, then
Lorcan Dempsey: Because of the different curatorial traditions, the different meditator traditions that
Lorcan Dempsey: The different orientations of the services difficult to pull together. But I do think that sort of more bento style approach might be interesting there, but also the link data.
Lorcan Dempsey: I mean, one of the things we're doing and we're working with terminus has colleagues in this context is, you know, with melon support developing entity backbone. So I think over time.
Lorcan Dempsey: If people share. So if we have persistent identifiers for
Lorcan Dempsey: People for places for a variety of things and we begin to share that infrastructure and have those identifiers in our descriptions in our discovery alerts that gives you a way of connecting things together.
Lorcan Dempsey: At some level, but it, but it's still somewhat some way out in the future. And it sort of interfaces, then can take advantage of some of those ways of doing things, but
Lorcan Dempsey: Different contacts or domains can link to similar or, you know, link to the same entity infrastructure for
Lorcan Dempsey: Particular shared entities. So I think in the future. That's
Lorcan Dempsey: Something that we should see more of. And we see it happening already with wicked data and so on.
William Mischo: So, so, Lisa. Here's a proper good player in the chat that, where do you start question.
William Mischo: Differs a little bit about whether or not you know what I'm searching for a topical searching and relevance relevancy ranking of the services I think it's really critically important.
William Mischo: For classes I teach I typically do a demo of Google Scholar pull it up and do a search for the term federated search
William Mischo: And what I find typically is the first handful of results is an article that I co wrote in 1999 well if I was going to tell people
William Mischo: give people information on the topic federated search and 1999 articles, not going to be very useful even I've written 20 articles since I've been more relevant. So
William Mischo: We do a lot of analysis of relevancy ranking in these web scale systems and in and I services. And I think that's a really critical really critical.
Diane Goldenberg-Hart: Thank you.
Diane Goldenberg-Hart: Thank you all for your thoughts. Thanks Lisa for that comment.
Diane Goldenberg-Hart: If we have any other questions, please feel free to type those in
Diane Goldenberg-Hart: I think given the hour. I'm going to propose.
Diane Goldenberg-Hart: setting off the recording.
Diane Goldenberg-Hart: And inviting any attendees who wish to still hang around and have a chat with our panelists, please do so All you have to do is raise your hand and I can unmute you.
Diane Goldenberg-Hart: But we'll go ahead and turn off the recording now and with a final sincere thanks to our panelists for your time sharing your experience and this valuable information with us at CNI and to our attendees for making time to be with us here today. So thank you everyone and be well
William Mischo: Yeah, thanks everyone for attending.
Lorcan Dempsey: Thank you.
Lorcan Dempsey: Thank you. Thank you all.
