Overall this is a capstone experience
so I don't want to speak for anyone else
but I expect a much more sophisticated paper
or a project than
I would in general in "just" a 
regular class, but it's doable, very doable.
I think partly by the nature
of the project, you've got to do something different from what you've done in any other class.
In all likelihood, whoever you select for your
advisor is a person you've probably worked with before; you probably have a good sense.
One thing I can say about that,
as I said, likely I see
two, maybe three drafts
and if I pointed out mistakes in an earlier draft and the student makes no effort to deal with them in a later drafts
it irritates me, and so I think that I've graded that more harshly
than I might otherwise. If they make an effort to deal with it, that's great, but if
that just sort of blow it off and the same mistake is exactly the same page
two drafts later
then I'm annoyed, but other than that, the standards for me are roughly the same.
But
everyone must be so clear
think about it.
One final thing,
Ron is a Giants fan
so don't take
anything he says very seriously.
Chris, on the other hand is a Dodgers fan
and Chris is an esteemed colleague. . . I saw a hand
(student question) I think you kind of touched on this - so if we decide to do a project 
instead of a paper 
would that still require a lit review; 
or is it dependent on 
what the project is?
I think all of you should
expect to do
a lit review review in some shape or form, because it's simply essential that you ground
whatever you do, in the literature, in the theory that you have spent four years
working to acquire.
What exactly that
individual literature review
looks like
depends
on the individual
project, I think, and that will be something that you will discuss with your
individual advisor.  I know that when
someone works with me and you do something,
that requires a lot of work
in terms of . . . like that one student setting up that experimental design
and actually getting the data and analyzing the data
or another
person who
designed a website for a specific purpose,
that's when I'm not going
to require a fifty
page paper.
All of your projects will have some written component
to it, but that's when you
should expect a much shorter version.
But everybody ought to do some kind of lit review.
Let me just add, regardless of what type of project, more traditional or less traditional,
part of the idea of having
an interesting research question is that you're making a contribution to the existing body of knowledge,
and so part
of how you demonstrate your own capacity
to answer that question, is to demonstrate that you know what
other people have to say about it.  I'll also add, a written component can be very valuable
to really focus your research question which makes it possible
to do it in an expeditious fashion.  (Student Question): For something like a proposal like Mike is talking about, is there a significant difference in the time it takes to go through the approval process
than a normal paper would?
So
the only reason you would have to worry about some kind of formal
approval process
other than your advisor
of course, is if you
work with human subjects.
That's when you
have to go through human subject approval.
Or if you require some kind of organization like space
on campus and you reserve a room or lab or something
I advised one of the people who did the "Rock The Vote" event in downtown SLO and that was just a total nightmare
of bureaucratic obstacles and paperwork and insurance things
for Cal Poly, but to
be honest, I see that rather rarely.
It all depends
on what you end up doing.
Otherwise you're just dealing with us.
But in that case, it does add time
I guess that was the quest you asked.
So human subjects, they have different types of review processes
depending on how
dangerous your project is to the
mental well-being of your fellow students.
But it could take anywhere from two weeks to two months.
Right?
So even more of an incentive to start early if you're doing something out of the box.
To refer back to another comment,
one of the key things, when you have a topic in mind,
what is your research question?
Because I'd be looking at that.
Also, your paper needs to 
answer the research question; if you ask it
I would be curious to see what was your answer.
OK, final question
(Student question): Do you see more success with students doing 461 and 462 than when students did 481, which was just one class, and when will it be offered?
Well right now 481 is not being offered
and we really don't know when.
But there are no plans to offer it next year, right?
Last year I was going to teach it
and only 5 students enrolled, so the administration
canceled it because of low enrollment
and everyone ended up signing up with me for 461 and 462
I think 461 and 462 are
probably
as (unintelligible)
because 481 is good for those of you, I think,
who have a hard time forcing yourself
to stick to a schedule, AKA the procrastinator,
and that's something that you can work out with your individual advisor too.
Several of my colleagues mentioned making a plan
and an outline
and breaking it up into smaller pieces.
we are more than willing to keep you to
the deadlines and make sure you finish it.
okay, we've reach the end of our hour but this
isn't the end of the story, right?
Go home and think about your senior projects, visit
with your
advisors and success will be yours!
