
English: 
and
hi everyone um
i hope everyone's doing okay happy
friday night
my name is fiona wright i'm the public
programs coordinator
at the carleton university art gallery
i'm so happy to
welcome you to qx first online event
talking food land and relationships
uh it was pretty wild i have to say to
um be able to see
registrants in advance um and i was
really happy to see
many friendly names um so um i'm sorry
that i can't see all your faces but
um thank you so much for for joining us
and spending this
this friday night with you with us
okay so um we'll get started uh
this panel is organized to accompany
they forgot that we were seeds
uh curated by cozy such and presented at
q

English: 
Fiona: And, hi everyone. I hope everyone's
doing okay. Happy Friday night.
My name is Fiona Wright. I am the public programs
coordinator at the Carleton University Art
Gallery.
I am so happy to welcome you to CUAG's
first online event: Talking Food, Land and
Relationships.
It was pretty wild; I have to say to be able
to see registrants in advance.
And I was really happy to see many friendly names.
So I’m sorry that I can't see all your
faces but thank you so much for joining us
and spending this Friday night with you, with
us.
Okay, so we'll get started.
This panel is organized to accompany
They Forgot That We Were Seeds curated

English: 
by Kosisochukwu Nnebe and presented at CUAG
from February 9th to March 15th.
This exhibition used food wastes to reimagine
the history of Canada as a settler colonial
state, placing Black and Indigenous women
artists at the center of efforts to construct
a counter-narrative.
It featured the work of KC Adams, Deanna Bowen,
Roxana Farrell, Bushra Junaid, Amy Malbeuf,
Meryl McMaster, Cheyenne Sundance, and Katherine
Takpannie.
So today we're really pleased to welcome Kosisochukwu
Nnebe, three of the artists from the
Exhibition and moderator Rachele Dickinson
to this free public discussion.
KC Adams is a Cree Ojibwe and British artist
and educator based in Winnipeg.
Cheyenne Sundance is the Toronto-based founder
of food justice centered urban farm, Sundance
Harvest.
Katherine Takpannie is an Ottawa-based Inuk
photographer.

English: 
egg from february 9th to march 15th
this exhibition used foodways to
reimagine the history of canada
as a settler colonial state placing
black and indigenous women artists
at the center of efforts to construct a
counter narrative
it featured the work casey adams deanna
bowen
roxanna farrell bushwick genade amy
malboth
meryl mcmaster cheyenne sundance and
catherine tectoni
so today uh we're really pleased to
welcome cozy nebe
uh three of the artists from the
exhibition and moderator rachelle
dickinson
to this free public discussion
uh casey adams is a cree ojibwe and
british artist and educator
based in winnipeg cheyenne sundance
is the toronto-based founder of food
justice centered urban farm
sundance harvest catherine takpani is an
ottawa-based enoch

English: 
photographer and uh
and of course cozinebe curator artist
policy analyst
um and rochelle dickinson uh independent
curator
and scholar who will be moderating the
conversation
this conversation is generously
supported by the risa greenberg
digital initiatives fund i'd also like
to acknowledge the support of carleton
university
canada council for the arts the ontario
arts council who funded cozy's
curatorship
through a culturally diverse curatorial
projects france
and andrea fatima who mentored cozy
throughout
i also want to thank jason laguerre our
art education assistant for all the help
bring together this event
so uh jason and i will be behind the
scenes uh
moderating the comments and the
questions here and um
on facebook so i'm really looking
forward to this conversation
and i'll pass it on to cozy who will be
doing
so hi everyone um can everyone hear me
right so it's a pleasure to be on the

English: 
And of course, Kosisochukwu Nnebe curator,
artist, policy analyst.
And Rachelle Dickenson independent curator
and scholar who will be moderating the conversation.
This conversation is generously supported
by the Reesa Greenberg Digital Initiatives
Fund.
I’d also like to acknowledge the support
of Carleton University, Canada Council for
the Arts, the Ontario
Arts Council who funded Kosi's curatorship
through a culturally diverse curatorial project
fund.
And Andrea Fatona who mentored Kosi throughout.
I also want to thank Jason Laguerre, our art
education assistant for all the help bring
together this event.
So, Jason and I will be behind the scenes,
moderating the comments and the questions
here and
on Facebook.
So I’m really looking forward to this conversation
and I’ll pass it on to Kosi who will be
doing the introduction.
Kosi: So. Hi! everyone can everyone hear
me?

English: 
Great, so it's a pleasure to be on the panel
with so many women I respect tremendously
but before we get into the conversation, I’d
like to start with the land acknowledgement
for today's event.
I’m actually on vacation with my family
in Saguenay so I’d like to first acknowledge
that the land in which I’m currently speaking
is the traditional territory of the Indonesians
and more specifically the Pekuakamiulnuatsh who've
hunted, fished and gathered, well, fruits
throughout this land for millennia.
I’d also like to acknowledge the first occupants
of the land on which this particular exhibition,
They Forgot That We Were Seeds, came to be,
Ottawa.
Which is the traditional and seated and unsurrended
territory of the Anishinaabe Algonquin nation
whose presence reaches back to time memorial.
I first heard a territory acknowledgement
of this kind in university but have only recently
come to
understand that the true power of such statements
lies in the actions that they're able to inspire.
And for me, that action has been a real desire
and real intent to make relationships with

English: 
panel with so many women i respect
tremendously
but before we get into the conversation
i'd like to start with the land
acknowledgement for today's event
i'm actually on vacation with my family
in sydney so i'd like to first
acknowledge that the land in which i'm
currently speaking
is the traditional territory of the
indonesians and more specifically
who've hunted fished and gathered while
fruit throughout this land for millennia
i'd also like to acknowledge the first
occupants of the land on which this
particular exhibition
they forgot that we were seeds came to
be otwa
which is the traditional and seated and
unsurrendered territory
of the anishinaabe algonquin nation
whose presence reaches back to time
immemorial
i first heard a territory
acknowledgement of this kind in
universities that have only recently
come to understand that the true power
of such statements
lie in the actions that they're able to
inspire
and for me that action has been a real
desire and real intent to make

English: 
relationships with the first inhabitants
of this land
and to show through my words and my
actions my respect for them as the
customary keepers and defenders not only
of ottawa
but the entirety of turtle island
and because territory uh territory
acknowledgments require an
acknowledgement of one's positionality
i'd like to start by sharing a bit more
about who i am and why i wanted to
curate this exhibition
so i first moved to canada i'm from
nigeria when i was five
and grew up for most of my life in the
national capital region
but never really engaged with what it
meant to be on this land until i was in
my early 20s
my first relationships with indigenous
books were as a federal official
from the time i was around 22 i would go
into communities and engage with first
nations inuit and metis folks on
food-related issues as part of the
government's engagement
on the development of the national food
policy and throughout this process
i initially saw myself only as an ally a
young black woman trying to make things
better

English: 
the first inhabitants of this land and to
show through my words and my actions, my respect
for them as the customary keepers and defenders
not only of Ottawa but the entirety of Turtle
Island.
And because territory territory acknowledgments
require an acknowledgement of one's positionality.
I’d like to start by sharing a bit more
about who I am and why I wanted to curate
this exhibition.
So I first moved to Canada, I’m from Nigeria
when I was five.
And grew up for most of my life in the national
capital region but never really engaged with
what it meant to be on this land until I was
in my early 20s.
My first relationships with Indigenous books
were as a federal official from the time I
was around 22.
I would go into communities and engage with
First nations, Inuit, and Metis folks on food
related issues as part of the government's
engagement on the development of the national
food policy.
And throughout this process, I initially saw
myself only as an ally.
A young Black woman trying to make things
better but with time, I started to realize

English: 
that I was also being seen in a different
way and that was as a settler and as someone
who was complicit in the settler colonial
state and who was actually representing the
state when going into these communities.
And I really have to grapple with that, that
knowledge and that acknowledgement of myself
as being complicit in this project and instead
of turning away from it, I thought I had to
dig deeper and to better understand what that
meant, I needed to understand the history.
And the ways in which there have been ways
in which our paths have been separate and
parallel but also have interconnected and
I wanted to do that through art.
And I decided that the best way to do that
was to bring together eight amazing Black
and indigenous women artists to really explore
the past, present, future kinds of relationships
that are possible between both groups the
intersections, as well.
As well as our relationships to the land and
the state.
So I don't think I could have chosen better
artists for this show and I’m so grateful
to be able to share this space with you again,
right now.

English: 
but with time um i started to realize
that i was also being seen in a
different way
and that was as a settler and as someone
who was complicit
in the settler colonial state and who
was actually representing the state
when going into these communities and i
really have to grapple with that that
knowledge and that acknowledgement of
myself as being complicit in this
project
and instead of turning away from it i
thought i had to dig deeper
i had to better understand what that
meant i needed to understand the history
and the ways in which there have been
ways in which our past has been separate
and parallel but also have
interconnected
and i wanted to do that through art and
i decided that the best way to do that
was
to bring together eight amazing black
and indigenous women artists to really
explore
the past present future kinds of
relationships that are
that are possible between both groups um
the intersections
as well as well as our relationships to
the land and the state
so i don't think i could have chosen
better artists for this show and i'm so
grateful to be able to share this space
with you again right now

English: 
and with that i'll pass it back to
rochelle
thank you very much um
it's it is an incredible honor for me as
well to be invited to moderate
this panel uh i admire each and every
one of you
work those on the panel as well as the
rest of the artists in the show
and cozy is pure to our vision um
to follow on what cozy said uh it's
important to me to locate myself as well
and very briefly i'll say that i
identify as
that's jack right there um
that i identify as a british irish and
red river made tea
my red river made tea connections to my
paternal grandfather
and i honor all of my ancestors in that
way and
as i speak to you i am on the unseeded
traditional territory of the algonquin
nation in ottawa
um because of how
i identify and how we move through these

English: 
And with that I’ll pass it back to Rachele.
Rachelle: Thank you very much for that Kosi.
It's… it is an incredible honor for me as
well to be invited to moderate this panel.
I admire each and every one of you’re
work. Those on the panel as well as the rest
of the artists in the show and Kosi spiritual
vision.
To follow on what Kosi said it's important
to me to locate myself as well and very briefly
I’ll say that I identify as - that's Jack,
right there - that I identify as a British
Irish and Red River Metis.
My Red River Metis connections to my paternal
grandfather and I honor all of my ancestors
in that way and as I speak to you, I am on
the unseeded traditional territory of the
Algonquin nation in Ottawa.

English: 
Because of how I identify and how we
move through these politicized spaces that
we work and live in and creating.
It's important to have this kind of debate
and to have these kinds of exhibitions and
to have an opportunity just to talk to each
other about what it means to work across constructed
and reconstructed and resourceful relationships
and intimacies.
So thank you again for inviting me and
I will be participating much less, after I
say a few words, about access checks for Greg
and Arson meeting.
So you're invited to add your comments and
questions both in Zoom and on Facebook, we
welcome your contributions and we look forward
to how they'll add to the conversation.
Do please make sure to keep them respectful.
You'll be able to… up vote questions, so
please do so.
The event will be about an hour and a
half long.

English: 
politicized spaces that we work and live
in and created
it's important to have this kind of
debate and to have these kinds of
exhibitions and to have an opportunity
just to talk to each other
about what it means to work across
constructed and reconstructed
and resourceful
uh relationships and intimacies um so
thank you again for inviting me
and i will be participating much less
after i say a few words about access
checks
for greg and arson meeting
so you're invited to add your comments
and questions uh
both in zoom and on facebook we welcome
your contributions and we look forward
to how they'll add to the conversation
do please make sure to keep them
respectful you'll be able to
up up both questions
so please do so um the event will be

English: 
about an hour and a half long take time
to stretch stand up and do whatever you
need to do
the conversation is going to be recorded
and we'll be adding closed captions and
it'll be posted later on
uh carlton university art gallery's
youtube channel
um again if you have any questions you
can just talk in with the chat
and let us know um we'll start the
the dialogue predominantly i'm going to
be talking with the artists and
we'll be talking with each other and
with with cosi
um one of the things that i'd like to
start with uh
and it's a question to all the artists
is posting
uh in her introduction mentioned that
there's you know how how do we move
through the
separate but parallel connections and
and the relationships that exist
through land across land and within
within the land
of turtle island when we were talking
about this
um this panel in particular
the word intimacies came up a lot and
i'm wondering if each of you can speak
about

English: 
Take time to stretch stand up and do whatever
you need to do.
The conversation is going to be recorded and
we'll be adding closed captions and it will
be posted later on Carleton University
Art Gallery's YouTube channel.
Again, if you have any questions, you can
just talk in with the chat and let us know.
We'll start the dialogue predominantly; I’m
going to be talking with the artists and we'll
be talking with each other and with Kosi.
One of the things that I’d like to start
with and it's a question to all the audiences.
Kosi in her introduction mentioned that there's
you know; how do we move through the separate
but parallel connections in the relationships
that exist through land across land and within
the land of
Turtle Island.
When we were talking about this, this panel
in particular the word intimacies came up

English: 
a lot and I’m wondering if each of you can
speak about how your works in the exhibition
demonstrate the kinds of intimacies you feel
within your community, to the land or maybe
without, into another community.
And if I can start with Cheyenne Sundance
that would be great, thank you.
Cheyenne: So, the question was regarding intimacy
and how intimacy works between my piece and
currently with the work I do with my community.
I would say my piece would English Ivy’s
and Peas does… hold on, construction is
happening let me just close. Okay, thanks.
Rachelle: Do we want to pull up that image
of Cheyenne’s wood?
Cheyenne: Yeah, sorry about that. I would
say the intimacy of my piece is also how everything
is rooted close together.

English: 
how how your works in the exhibition
demonstrate the kinds of intimacies you
feel within your community
to to the land or maybe without into
another community
and if i can start with uh cheyenne
sundance
that would be great thank you
so the question was regarding intimacy
and how intimacy works
between my piece and currently with the
work i do with my community
i would say my piece would english iv
mps does hold on let me just
i have what construction is happening
let me just close okay thanks
do we want to pull up that uh image of
cheyenne's work
yeah sorry about that um i would say the
intimacy of my piece is
also how everything is rooted close
together

English: 
So when you're seeing when the English ivy
is growing along the peas shoots and the roots
of the both plants are cemented in the soil,
that also speaks upon a certain type of intimacy;
intimacy of sharing the same medium, the same
growing space.
I would say the ways that my piece is also
reflected in my community regarding intimacy
is… I do feel like and from what I’ve
seen that forging new relationships with
the land or existing relationships with the
land is a very intimate thing.
There's something to be said about being able
to have time with the land by yourself as
well and find yourself within that space.
And I feel like when I made this piece, I
was really feeling that.
I was feeling a lot when I made this piece,
I was going through a lot of transitions in
my life.
And to be able to not manipulate so to speak
but have a role in the way a living thing
survives and thrives was very special to me
and I see that same intimacy of having a relationship
with the land and

English: 
so when when you're seeing when the
english ivy is growing along the peach
shoots and
the roots of the both plants are
cemented in the soil
that also speaks upon a certain type of
intimacy
intimacy of sharing the same medium the
same growing space
i would say the ways that my peace is
also reflected in my community
regarding intimacy is i do feel like
and from what i've seen um that
forging new relationships with the land
or existing relationships with the land
is a very intimate thing
there's something to be said about being
able to have time with the land by
yourself as well and
find yourself within that space and i
feel like when i made this piece
i was really feeling that i i was
feeling a lot when i made this piece i
was going through a lot of transitions
in my life
and to be able to not manipulate so to
speak but
have a role in the way a living thing
survives and thrives was very special to
me and i see that same intimacy of

English: 
in some way being a part of the land's story
in this way, in my own community.
As I grow food but beyond just growing food,
I also do restoring native species of plants
along ravines so doing that as well and like
understanding that having a relationship with
a land in a more reciprocal way, less of a
farming way where you're literally taking
things out is a very interesting thing.
So I think that's what I would say the intimacy
piece.
I do… I do yeah I think that's what
I would say.
Rachelle: what do you think, sorry one quick
question there, Cheyenne what do you think?
How does it translate in the gallery? What
do you think it brings into the gallery installation?
Cheyenne: The piece?
Rachelle: Yeah.
Cheyenne: I think what it brings into the
gallery is something that's very living, I
think it was very cool.
That it was just consistently alive and growing
and overall, like changing.

English: 
having a relationship with the land and
in some way being a part of the land's
story in this way in my own community
as i grow food but beyond just growing
food i also uh do
restoring native species of plants
along ravines so doing that as well and
like understanding that
having a relationship with the land in a
more reciprocal way
less of a farming way where you're
literally taking things out
is a very interesting thing so i think
that's what i would say the intimacy
piece
um i do i do yeah i think that's what i
would say
what do you think sorry one quick
question there cheyenne what do you
think
how does it translate in the gallery
what do you think it brings into the
gallery installation
the piece yeah i think what it brings
into the gallery is something that's
very living i think it was very cool
that it was just consistently alive
and growing and and overall

English: 
like changing and the interesting thing
about having living pieces
from day one to day two even it doesn't
look the same
even if we can't notice it as non-plant
beings the plants life itself
and the fungi and the soil and i know it
because thus my compost
has a life right every day it changes in
some way
so it would feel like the intimacy
pieces people
are witnessing the plants and the soil
and the fungi
changing itself and they're involved in
the process
because they breathe in the oxygen and
the plants you know releases also like
carbon dioxide and like that also is a
type of exchange and intimacy if you're
around the plant
so i would say yeah that's what i would
say
it's a really interesting intervention
into the gallery space
um casey did you want to respond to the
question regarding
the relationship between intimacies and
community land in your practice

English: 
And the interesting thing about having living
pieces from day one to day two even, it doesn't
look the same even if we can't notice it as
non-plant beings, the plants life itself and
the fungi and the soil and I know it because
that’s my compost has a life right, every
day it changes in some way.
So I feel like the intimacy pieces people
are witnessing the plants and the soil and
the fungi changing itself and they're involved
in the process because they breathe in the
oxygen and the plants.
You know releases also like carbon dioxide
and like that also is a type of exchange and
intimacy, if you're around the plant.
So I would say yeah, that's what I would say.
Rachelle: It's a really interesting intervention
into the gallery space.
KC did you want to respond to the question
regarding the relationship between intimacies

English: 
and community land in your practice.
[ KC speaking in Cree]
KC: What I said was in Cree, my name is flying
over her head, an eagle woman and I said hello
to all my relations and I said that I come
from Judy Adams who is originally from Fisher
River.
The important… the reason why every time
I introduce myself in these kinds of situations
is that it's important to know where you come
from.
So that you know where you're going and so
I’d like to acknowledge my mother, an elder
told me that that's important.
So that's my introduction so when I when
I think about the pieces that I created for

English: 
judy adams is
what i said was is in cree my name is
flying over her head an
eagle flying overheaded eagle woman um
and i said hello to all my relations and
uh i said that
i come from judy adams who is originally
from fisher river
uh the important the reason why
every time i introduce myself in these
kind of situations
is that it's important to know where you
come from
so that you know where you're going and
so i'd like to acknowledge my mother
an elder told me that that's important
so
that's my introduction uh so when i
when i think about the the pieces that i
created
for this show um i can honestly say that

English: 
uh the vessels working with clay uh
changed my relationship not only with my
community
but also changed my relationship to land
and water so if
if um if my installation
image could be pulled up
and can you hear me properly yeah okay
okay that's good so
so these are um clay vessels that i
created
within the space what i had done was i
had brought
clay that i had harvested from the land
and
the shapes and forms are inspired by
ancestral vessels that
that have been found all around manitoba
and it's a lost art

English: 
this show, I can honestly say that the
vessels working with clay changed my relationship
not only with my community but also changed
my relationship to land and water.
So if my installation image could be pulled
up.
And can you hear me properly?
Yeah okay, that's good.
So these are clay vessels that I created within
the space.
What I had done was I had brought clay that
I had harvested from the land and the shapes
and forms are inspired by ancestral vessels
that… that have been found all around Manitoba.

English: 
not not many people know how to do it in
fact a lot of the knowledge that i got
was from archaeologists and
anthropologists
and so uh but when i touched the clay
and
i started creating these vessels it was
like blood memory kicked in
and it felt familiar and so it it was
being able to collect clay from the land
use water that i harvested
mixing it together and then also by
using a temper
it's usually something that you add in
like sand the temper that
i would use would be
granite from sweat from
sweats and they break down
and basically it's easy to crush them
and you mix it in with the clay so that
it can handle
the high heat that's required for for
cooking
so what that did was it completely
altered
the way i thought about indigenous

English: 
And it's a lost art, not many people know
how to do it in fact a lot of the knowledge
that I got was from archaeologists and anthropologists
and so but when I touched the clay and
I started creating these vessels it was like
blood memory kicked in.
And it felt familiar and so it was being able
to collect clay from the land, use water that
I harvested, mixing it together and then also
by using a temper, it's usually something
that you add in like sand the temper that
I would use would be granite from sweat from
sweats.
And they break down and basically, it's easy
to crush them and you mix it in with the clay
so that it can handle the high heat that's
required for cooking.
So what that did was it completely altered
the way I thought about indigenous pottery

English: 
but it also changed, created an intimacy towards
the land and water that I never had before.
So it was an important process that I had
gone through.
Rachelle: Can you talk a little bit about
the legacy photographs as well in that way
because it's different kind of approach to
photography as well as it was done a few years
ago.
KC: Right yeah, so these photographs were
actually what I wanted to do was I had
read an article through the world health organization
that talked about how indigenous people around
the world
have 50 percent have type 2 diabetes.
So 50 of the indigenous population around
the world, this was back in 2010 have
type 2 diabetes, at the time my mother did.

English: 
pottery but it also
changed created an intimacy
towards the land and water that i never
had before
so it was an important process that i
had gone through
can you talk a little bit about the
legacy photographs as well in that way
because it's different kind of approach
to photography as well as it was done a
few years ago
right yeah so these these photographs
were actually
um what i wanted to do was i had
read an article through the world health
organization
that talked about how indigenous people
around the world
have 50 percent have type 2 diabetes
so 50 of the indigenous population
around the world this was back in 2010
um have type 2 diabetes um

English: 
And so what, I was doing residency in Australia
so what I wanted to do was I wanted to address
that discussion and what I did was I took
photographs of indigenous elders from Samoa,
from Australia and from New Zealand.
And I took pictures of body parts that are
affected by these foods basically and
the different body parts are parts that are
affected by diabetes.
So you can see the fingertips, those are toes
at the bottom and these all become problematic
when you're a diabetic, your eyesight…
What I like about this one is at the bottom
she has a tattoo, that's on her wrist just
like mine and
I wanted to acknowledge that this is very
problematic.

English: 
at the time my mother did and so what
i was doing residency in australia so
what i wanted to do was i wanted to
address that
that discussion and uh
what i did was i took photographs of
indigenous
elders from samoa
from australia and from new zealand and
i took pictures of body parts that are
affected by
um by
these foods basically
and the different body parts are
are parts that are affected by diabetes
so you can see the fingertips
those are toes at the bottom and these
all become
problematic when you're a diabetic your
eyesight
what i like about this one is at the
bottom she has a tattoo
um that's on her wrist just like mine
and um i wanted to acknowledge

English: 
The foods that we are… that have been introduced
to us, but I also wanted to highlight the
strength and the resilience of the people.
So I didn't want it to be completely thinking
of it as a tragedy.
I wanted to show it as a source of strength
and resilience.
Rachelle: Katherine, did you want to answer
the question about intimacies in your practice
again, a photographic practice an interesting
context too for your, for one of your pieces
in the show.
Katherine: Hi, I just want to make sure
everyone can hear me?
Rachelle: Yep… yes.
Katherine: Okay, awesome. I wanted to share
that I was overwhelmed, there was a woman

English: 
that this is very problematic the foods
that we are that have been introduced to
us
but i also wanted to highlight
the strength and the resilience of the
people so i didn't want it to be
um completely thinking of it as a
tragedy
i wanted to show it as a source of
strength and resilience
catherine did you want to
answer the question about intimacies in
your practice
again a photographic practice and an
interesting context too for your
for one of your pieces in the show um
hi um i just want to make sure everyone
can hear me
okay awesome um i wanted to
share that i
was overwhelmed um there was a woman

English: 
named verna
who opened our gathering and my pieces
in this exhibit are images captured
throughout the entire
evening um we started
with with verna who
who did a ceremony and we were able to
showcase uh one by one
our vulnerabilities our shared realities
our histories
everything that brought us together um
thanks to cosi and i was
kind of almost a fly in the wall i did i
did participate and i did
share um but i wanted to capture
the intimacy of the entire night um
by by being present but
by also not being present at the same
time
i i wanted to capture like for instance

English: 
named Verna who opened our gathering and my
pieces in this exhibit are images captured
throughout the entire evening.
We started with Verna who did a ceremony
and we were able to showcase, one by one
our vulnerabilities, our shared realities,
our histories everything that brought us together,
thanks to Kosi
And I was kind of almost a fly in the wall.
I did participate and I did share but I wanted
to capture the intimacy of the entire night
by being present but by also not being present
at the same time.
I wanted to capture like for instance with
the qulliq.

English: 
with the kudlik
there's a lot of tender care with inuit
culture involving the kudlik
um with it with the light oh yeah
um there there was uh two two images
um with the could lick involved and
it's its importance to
inuit culture how we ended up thriving
how we ended up
coming to be and how
um it brought um
the ceremony and and the intimacy of the
night together i i just wanted
to say that it it was amazing to be a
part of it and to
capture all these moments of
of all of our shared histories and
realities
past and and future how this
conversation
how we all came to be how we all spoke
about ourselves

English: 
There's a lot of tender care with Inuit culture involving the qulliq, with the light.
Oh yeah, there was two images with
the qulliq involved and it's importance to
Inuit culture, how we ended up thriving, how
we ended up coming to be, and how it brought
this ceremony and the intimacy of the night,
together.
I just wanted to say that it was amazing to
be a part of it and to capture all these moments,
of all of our shared histories, and realities,
past, and future.
How this conversation, how we all came to
be, how we all spoke about ourselves, and

English: 
what we wanted to see for the future.
I really just wanted to capture the care and
detail of everything that was put into this.
All the different food, all the different
people, all the different shared ideas, and
all the shared realities, as well.
Oh! thank you.
Rachelle: Did you find it? Sorry do you
want to jump in Kosi?
Kosi: No, no, no, go ahead, go ahead.
Rachelle: Katherine, did you find it like…
how did you come from being in the space and
documenting it, to the aesthetic choices you
made and producing the final images and how
did your experience inform these decisions?
… really specific question.
Katherine: Just, there was I think I have
actually over like 600 images for them for

English: 
and and what we wanted to see um for the
future
i really just wanted to capture
the care and detail of everything that
was put into this
all the different food all the different
people
all the different shared ideas and all
all the shared realities as well
oh thank you
did you find it uh sorry do you want to
jump in cozy no no go ahead
go ahead um catherine did you find it
like how did you come from being in this
space and documenting it to
the aesthetic choices you made in
producing the final images
and and how did your experience inform
these decisions
a really specific question um
just be uh there was
i i think i have actually over like 600
images for them for the whole

English: 
um evening because it was it was long it
was beautiful i wanted to
capture like as we were gathering food
together um
this is an image of cosy's mother and a
young
girl and at that time she was so
shy that i i know that uh
inuit have a history of seeming
seemingly being very shy but kosi's
mother was incredibly warm
and welcoming and wanted to
engage with her and i
i as soon as some of the moments that
happened in the night it just
it flashed like there are some smiles
there's some teachings there's all of us
gathered together in a circle
um the images were actually helped
chosen by cosi um she
she was able to um
we we were able to go back and forth

English: 
the whole evening because it was it was
long it was beautiful I wanted to capture
like as we were gathering food together.
This is an image of Kosi's mother and a young
girl and at that time she was so shy that
I know that Inuit have a history of seeming…
seemingly being very shy but Kosi's mother
was incredibly warm and welcoming and wanted
to engage with her.
And I… as soon as some of the moments that
happened in the night, it just… it flashed
like there are some smiles, there's some teachings,
there's all of us gathered together in a circle.
The images were actually helped chosen by
Kosi, she was able to we were able to

English: 
about how we wanted to present
the evening how it's really hard to and
very few images
but we managed to we managed to capture
and share a lot of the intimacy that
that evening
that's incredible that actually brings
me
my next question is for cozy
because the curator pussy did you
can you run down and put a bit of the
planning
like the from from start to finish so
yeah bread strokes oh yeah for sure
um so the planning for the exhibition
so it was actually a friend of mine that
encouraged me to reach out to heather
um anderson who's a curator at qag and

English: 
go back and forth about how we wanted to present
the evening.
How it's really hard to and very few images
but we managed to… we managed to capture
and share a lot of the intimacy that evening.
Rachelle: That's incredible. That actually
brings me my next question, is for Kosi.
So as the curator Kosi, did you… can you
run down and put a bit of the planning like
the from start to finish?
Kosi: Of the exhibition?
Rachelle: So yeah, bread strokes.
Kosi: Oh! yeah for sure so the planning
for the exhibition, so it was actually a friend
of mine that encouraged me to reach out to
Heather Anderson who's a curator at CUAG and
just to submit a proposal.

English: 
just to submit a proposal
and from there i had been i was still
working at agriculture inaugural for
canada so working on the development of
that food policy and those questions
were very much top of mind
i was struggling with my role um
starting to feel as though i might be
might not be
the ally that i thought i was so i went
in with very good intentions and
all of a sudden i'm starting to feel as
though i might be the problem and i
didn't know what to do with that and i
still had to go into work
um and i just didn't know how to address
this for my job
and i thought okay maybe this is an
opportunity to address all of those
questions those issues
through my art practice and i just felt
people i couldn't do that by myself
so for me the the next best thing or the
best thing actually was
to really be a curator of an exhibition
that was able to harness
the beautiful talent of all these other
artists who could tell these stories who
had been telling these stories right
so casey's work um she did the
installation for the first time a couple
years before
this next generation as part of the show
bersera's work had been part of an

English: 
And from there I had been, I was still working
at Agriculture Council of Canada, so working
on the development of that food policy and
those questions were very much top of mind.
I was struggling with my role starting to
feel as though I might be… might not be
the ally that I thought I was.
So I went in with very good intentions and
all of a sudden I’m starting to feel as
though I might be the problem and I didn't
know what to do with that and I still had
to go into work.
And I just didn't know how to address
this for my job and I thought okay maybe this
is an opportunity to address all of those
questions, those issues through my art practice.
And I just felt people I couldn't give up
on myself.
So for me the next best thing or the best
thing actually was to really be a curator
of an exhibition that was able to harness
the beautiful talent of all these other artists
who could tell these stories, who had been
telling these stories right.
So KC's work she did the installation
for the first time a couple years before this,
the next generation, as part of the show.

English: 
Bushra's work had been part of an exhibition
that she had curated alongside Roxanna.
So when I was starting to plan the exhibition,
I was able to look at works that had already
been exhibited, that already existed, that
spoke to the scenes that I was trying to kind
of speak to.
So Bushra's exhibition, Newfoundland, was
beautiful and it was actually a starting point
for me.
In terms of understanding what she was, she
was doing interrogating the connections
between
the Caribbean and Newfoundland and then trying
basically not trying to but actually really
emphasizing the connections to Blackness.
And what I wanted to do was to continue
that conversation and start to understand
the ways in which you know we talked about
parallel kind of stories or parallel paths
the ways in which they interconnect.
And for me it was starting to question, you
know, I understand that cod being fished off
of the coast off of the east coast would
then be shipped to the Caribbean and then
would actually be used to kind of sustain
these populations of enslaved Africans because
it was the cheap source of protein.

English: 
exhibition that
she had curated alongside roxanna's so
when i was starting to plan the
exhibition i was able to look at works
that had already been
exhibited that already existed that
spoke to the scenes that i was trying to
kind of speak to
um so bush's exhibition newfoundland was
beautiful and it was actually a starting
point for me
in terms of understanding what she was
she was doing
um interrogating the connections between
the caribbean and newfoundland
and then trying uh basically not trying
to but actually really emphasizing the
connections to blackness
um and what i wanted to do was to
continue that conversation and start to
understand the ways in which you know we
talked about parallel
kind of stories or parallel paths um the
ways in which they interconnect
and for me it was starting to question
you know i understand that cod being
fished off of the coast
uh off of the east coast would then be
shipped to the caribbean
and then would actually um be used to
kind of sustain these populations of
inflated afghans because it was the

English: 
cheap source of protein
but after that what happened right and
you have these ships that are coming
back from the caribbean with sugar
and its derivative products right um
molasses and rum and so on and
what you have is then a conversation as
to what happens when those food stuffs
are brought back to turtle island
and that's where that those stories
starts interconnect
because the those same goods that were
produced by
black labor in terms of salt and sugar
they then had devastating effects on
indigenous populations when they were
consumed here
so those stories actually are are
italian different sides
of the same story of exploitation and
oppression and domination
right and then you have works like
roxanna that speak to these dominant
kind of structures and how they're
upheld
um so i'm not going to go all into all
of that because you asked me about
planning and i'm getting away from that
um but i was able to start i was able to
start with works that already existed
exhibitions that already existed and to
then try and fill in the gaps

English: 
But after that what happened, right?
And you have these ships that are coming back
from the Caribbean with sugar and its their
products right molasses and rum and so
on and what you have is then a conversation
as to what happens when those food stuffs
are brought back to Turtle Island.
And that's where that, those stories start
to interconnect because the, those same goods
that were
produced by Black labor in terms of salt and
sugar.
They then had devastating effects on the indigenous
populations when they were consumed here.
So those stories actually are telling a different
side of the same story of exploitation and
oppression and domination, right.
And then you have works like Roxanna that
speak to these dominant kinds of structures
and how they're upheld.
So I’m not going to go all into all of that
because you asked me about planning and I’m
getting away from that but I was able
to start… I was able to start with works
that already existed, exhibitions that already
existed and to then try and fill in the gaps
to a certain extent or connect the gaps.

English: 
to a certain extent or connect the job
and that's where casey joy came in
that's where amy's work came in
and they really um just it's a really
beautiful and intricate story
about really those connections from um
the east coast to
newfoundland and sugar and salt and cod
and so on
but there's also an extension of that
where i was starting to really question
again that complicity or the complexity
of the relationships between black and
indigenous women or black and indigenous
peoples writ large
and for me that really has to do with
land right to talk about food as we
talked about land
and land is a very very complicated kind
of subject to touch on when you're
talking about things like black
liberation
um and the black presence in canada and
also like indigenous sovereignty because
i think there are discussions to be had
there um not in terms of tension but in
terms of just complexity
so i wanted to delve into that
complexity a little bit more
and that's where meryl's work and
diana's work is are worked so well
together

English: 
And that's where Casey’s work came in,
that's where Amy’s work came in.
And they really just, it's a really beautiful
and intricate story about really those connections
from the East coast to Newfoundland and
sugar and salt and cod and so on.
But there's also an extension of that where
I was starting to really question again that
complicity or the complexity of the relationships
between Black and Indigenous women or black
and indigenous peoples at large.
And for me that really has to do with land,
right.
To talk about food, we talk about land.
And land is a very, very complicated kind
of subject to touch on when you're talking
about things like Black liberation and about
Black presence in Canada and also like indigenous
sovereignty because I think there are discussions
to be had there not in terms of tension
but in terms of just complexity.
So I wanted to delve into that complexity
a little bit more and that's where Meryl’s
work and Deanna’s work is are worked so
well together and I knew both of them separately.

English: 
I had always wanted to work with them and
really saw a complementarity in their pieces
which are both kind of located in the prairies.
With Meryl speaking to the importance
of certain landscapes in the prairies, to
her ancestors.
And Deanna’s work speaking to the migration
of her ancestors, to the prairies as African
American settlers and the complexity of that
of not only being of not only being a Black
woman but also a woman with Indigenous
heritage.
And how there are those intersections and
Black Indigenous peoples do exist as well
and that again is that complexity.
So that's where that came in those
two works came in.
And then Cheyenne and Katherine, I just really
wanted to work with both of them because of
the ability to speak really to relationships.
So Katherine’s work we in terms of intimacy,
I think like we worked so closely together
on that piece, on you know organizing, talking
about the event and I really did feel that
intimacy as you're working together, and I
think that's what you see with those photos.

English: 
and i knew both of them separately i had
always wanted to work with them and
really saw a complementarity in their
pieces which are both kind of
located in the prairies with meryl
speaking to
the importance of certain landscapes in
the prairies to her
her ancestors and deanna's work speaking
to the migration of her ancestors
to the prairies as african-american
settlers and the complexity of that
of not only being um of not only being a
black woman but also a woman with
uh indigenous heritage and how there are
those those intersections and
black indigenous peoples do exist as
well and that again is that complexity
um so that's where that came in
uh those two works came in and then
cheyenne and catherine
i just really wanted to work with both
of them because
of the ability to speak really to
relationships um so captain's work we
in terms of intimacy i think like we
worked so closely together on that piece
on
you know organizing talking about the
event and i really did feel that
intimacy as we were working together and
i think that's what you see with those

English: 
photos
and i'd like i'd love to come back at
some point to the actual dinner because
that was such an important moment for me
um but really starting to look at the
kinds of relationships that are possible
in the present and really starting to
reconsider
or see what else is possible because it
was
in sharp contrast to the kinds of
dinners or kinds of
interactions i had as a federal official
where there was so much mistrust
and i wasn't able to develop those kinds
of intimate relationships and i have to
take a step back and really start to
engage outside of those confines i still
i'm still struggling to understand how
to bring that intimacy
in my job as a federal official um
so that was really something that i
wanted to see there and then with
cheyenne's work which
like you said so beautifully cheyenne is
very much a living work
i wanted to really start to think about
the future and i think you can start to
see
in nature those patterns that really
speak to how decolonization
what it would look like for us right how
we can have black liberation
and indigenous sovereignty um and how

English: 
And I’d like… I’d love to come back
at some point to the actual dinner because
that was such an important moment for me.
But really starting to look at the kinds
of relationships that are possible in the
present and really starting to reconfigure
them more, see what else is possible because
it was a sharp contrast to the kinds of dinners
or kinds of interactions I had as a federal
official where there was so much mistrust
and I wasn't able to develop those kinds of
intimate relationships.
And I have to take a step back and really
start to engage outside of those confines.
I still… I’m still struggling to understand
how to bring that intimacy in my job as a
federal official so that was really something
that I wanted to see there.
And then with Cheyenne’s work, which like
you said so beautifully Cheyenne is very much
a living work I wanted to really start to
think about the future.
And I think you can start to see in nature
those patterns that really speak to how decolonization,
what it would look like for us, right.

English: 
that can work together and we can
support each other mutually
um so that's kind of how all that came
together
sorry that's a lot no that was amazing i
just want to ask any of the artists on
the panel if they want to respond or
have questions or
want to speak to the the overarching
intent and the complexity of the
exhibition
nope okay can you see
uh i'm sorry it's just
none of the kids want to raise their
hand i know it's okay
no problem um i'm wondering
and i'm gonna ask each of you the same
question um coming out of
uh cozy's description of the intention
of the exhibition
when she approached you to to be a part
of it why did you decide to do so
why did you think your work should be

English: 
How we can have Black liberation and indigenous
sovereignty and how that can work together,
and we can support each other mutually
so that's kind of how all that came together.
Sorry, that's a lot.
Rachelle: No that was amazing I just want
to ask any of the artists on the panel if
they want to respond or have questions or
want to speak to the overarching intent and
the complexity of the exhibition.
Nope, okay. Can you see?
KC: I’m sorry. It's just none of the kids
want to raise their hand.
Rachelle: I know, that's okay no problem.
I’m wondering and I’m gonna ask each
of you the same question coming out of
Kosi's description of the intention of
the exhibition when she approached you to
be a part of it… Why did you decide to do
so? Why did you think your work should be

English: 
part of that dialogue
uh are you asking me now i'm asking you
okay okay uh
well first of all i was thrilled um to
to be asked to be part of this because
um
you know this hasn't changed since the
first time i i did this
this work um diabetes is still an issue
food sovereignty is still an issue um
there were a lot of
i felt like the work was still relevant
and
still talking about things that we we
need to talk about
um the work that that i had created um
was for a thesis show so it was only up
for five days and what i
failed to mention earlier was that these
clay vessels that i made
i did them in situ and uh i used
originally i used commercial clay
because i didn't know how to harvest
clay at that point in time
and i made these raw forms and then i
placed

English: 
part of that dialogue?
KC: Are you asking me now?
Rachelle: I’m asking you.
KC: Okay… okay.
Well first of all I was thrilled to
be asked to be part of this because you know
this hasn't changed since the first time,
I did this work.
Diabetes is still an issue, food sovereignty
is still an issue, there were a lot of,
I felt like the work was still relevant and
still talking about things that we need to
talk about.
The work that that I had created was for a
thesis show so it was only up for five days
and what I failed to mention earlier was that
these clay vessels that I made, I did them
in situ and I used originally I used commercial
clay because I didn't know how to harvest
clay at that point in time.

English: 
And I made these raw forms and then I placed
the five gifts which is milk, sugar, salt,
lard and which one do I make, milk did
I say milk already?
Anyways, so there's flour, right.
So what I wanted to do was we actually
used real cream poured it into these vessels
and lard and all of these… these gifts
that we received from you know a settler
diet and what it did was it broke down
the vessels.
So at the time that I created this, I was
thinking about my mother and being able to
do it the second time was important because
my father now has type 2 diabetes and he actually

English: 
the five gifts which is milk
sugar salt lard and
uh which one do i make milk did i say
milk already
um anyways so there's flour flour
right so so what i wanted to do was
uh we actually used real cream poured it
into these vessels
and lard and all of these
these gifts that we received from
from uh
you know a subtler diet and
what it did was it broke down the
vessels so
uh at the time that i created this i was
thinking about my mother
and um being able to do it the second
time was important because my father now
has type

English: 
2 diabetes and he actually lost
part of his leg so it became a
it became an important issue
not just not just for my community but
also for my family
and i really i've i had also been
learning more about indigenous pottery
and learning about this lost art
and the second time around that doing
this
exhibition i had all this knowledge that
i had accumulated
um since 2010 and i now have a better
understanding
of and creating a more um
intimate relationship with with land and
water so i wanted to bring that forward
and i was really excited to to be asked
to be part of this
thank you for that that was great uh
it's an interesting dialogue too
especially when you start to think about
your work with shawnee's work and how

English: 
lost part of his leg.
So, it became a… it became an important
issue not just not just for my community but
also for my family.
And I really, I’ve, I had also been learning
more about indigenous pottery and learning
about this lost art
and the second time around that doing this
exhibition I had all this knowledge that I
had accumulated, since 2010.
And I now have a better understanding of and
creating a more intimate relationship with
land and water, so I wanted to bring that
forward.
And I was really excited to be asked to be
part of this.
Rachelle: Thank you for that, that was great.
It's an interesting dialogue too especially
when you start to think about your work with

English: 
they're both
shifting and changing in the space um
catherine do you want to tell us what
you thought when you received the
invitation and why you thought your work
why you wanted to begin this dialogue in
the way that you did with this
exhibition
of course um am i properly unmuted
okay awesome um when cosi approached me
i was extremely excited to be a part of
this
um fun fact um
i wasn't supposed to originally showcase
uh work um of that evening
that that came afterwards um cosi
and i um sat down my
my son was about three or four months at
the time
and he he was just so tiny and
we were going to just look over
different art

English: 
Cheyenne’s work and how they're both shifting
and changing in the space.
Katherine, do you want to tell us what you
thought when you received the invitation?
And why you thought your work… why you wanted
to begin this dialogue in the way that you
did with this exhibition?
Katherine: Of course, am I properly unmuted?
Okay, awesome.
When Kosi approached me, I was extremely excited
to be a part of this.
Fun fact, I wasn't supposed to originally
showcase work of that evening that came
afterwards, Kosi and I sat down.
My son was about three or four months at the
time and he was just so tiny, and we were
gonna just look over different art.

English: 
I had images of pro ceiling because the conversation
about land, colonialism, relationships with
Canada, with indigenous, with Black… how
we all have been dispersed from our land in
different ways but having similarities.
We looked over images of Chloe.
One of the last times I had been back home
and it evolved into me taking images of
of the night but prior to that, when kosi
did approach me, I thought so much just like
Casey Adams had mentioned.
My own anana or ananaga, my mom she was a
federal school survivor she also had TB when

English: 
i had images of pro ceiling
because the conversation about land
colonialism um relationships
with canada with indigenous with black
how we all have been
dispersed from our land in different
ways
but having similarities we looked over
images of
chloe one of the last times i had been
back home
and and it evolved into
me taking images of um
of the night but prior to that
when cosi did approach me
i i thought so much um
just like casey adams had mentioned um
my um my own uh ananna her ananega
my mom she was a

English: 
federal school survivor she also had tb
when she was six and was taken
from her community in the north brought
down to a sanatorium
in toronto and was introduced a new diet
and she also developed type 2 diabetes
um it's actually only within the last
two months
um my she moved back home
and her diet is
strictly she's fishing for arctic chart
and she's
uh collecting clams and she's very
picking every single day
and since she has gone back home
she actually doesn't have diabetes
anymore
uh she she's she's not um eating a
western diet
and she's specifically gone back to
our our land our food our are
there there's a lot of importance to me

English: 
she was six and was taken from her community
in the north, brought down to a sanatorium
in Toronto and was introduced to new diet
and she also developed type 2 diabetes.
It's actually only within the last two months,
my… she moved back home, and her diet is
strictly… she's fishing for arctic chart
and she's collecting clams and she's berry
picking every single day and since she has
gone back home, she actually doesn't have
diabetes anymore.
She's not eating a Western diet and she's
specifically gone back to our land, our food,
our…

English: 
for the conversation
um with colonialism with acculturation
what happens um when you rip
or attempt to rip culture from
an indigenous group i i wanted to
be a part of the conversation not only
to learn more but also
to kind of share um
where um i guess my inumit story is
um being in inuk and um
but when it transformed into taking
images
of the night i i was
i was still over thrilled to just
be a part of this to be a part of this
conversation to be a part of the
awareness
to to be with everyone
and to learn a lot more

English: 
There's a lot of importance to me for the
conversation with colonialism, with acculturation
what happens, when you rip or attempt to rip
culture from an indigenous group.
I wanted to be a part of the conversation
not only to learn more but also to kind of
share.
Where I guess my Inuit story is, being an
Inuk and but when it transformed into taking
images of the night, I was… I was still
over thrilled to just be a part of this, to
be a part of this conversation, to be a part
of the awareness, to be with everyone and
to learn a lot more.
Thank you.

English: 
thank you thank you a lot
that's amazing um cheyenne
can you speak a little bit um
about i'm just thinking through what
what catherine had talked about and uh
watching casey's
face and uh wondering if you can talk a
little bit about why you
wanted to participate in the exhibition
this particular exhibition
and and your
perspective on the cultural significance
of
cultural intellectual psychological and
emotional significance of your practice
which is
land-based we were talking earlier about
how you have a garden
where you have a farm and
in a greenhouse and so it's
you're coming at this from a really
specific perspective
and i'd love to hear more about that
yeah

English: 
Rachelle: Thank you a lot, that's amazing.
Cheyenne, can you speak a little bit about,
I’m just thinking about… what Katherine
you talked about and watching KC's face
and wondering if you can talk a little
bit about why you wanted to participate in
the exhibition.
This particular exhibition and your perspective
on the cultural significance of cultural intellectual
psychological and emotional significance of
your practice.
Which is land-based we were talking earlier
about, how you have a garden, where you have
a… you have a farm in a greenhouse and so
it's… you're coming at this from a really
specific perspective and I’d love to hear
more about that.

English: 
um so i was interested in this project
because when i met cozy i remember the
coffee shop we went to
and i remember how well
cozy and also warmly you articulated
your vision
and i've never i don't know if i would
call myself an artist because this is my
first art piece i've ever done
um but i felt very like
invited which was a very beautiful thing
and i think that
the way cozy curated this piece was so
beautiful
in a way that you found all these pieces
and you put them together in a way that
just worked
and i i felt like when i was thinking
about
my piece and the ideas in my piece um
the fact that it was living like i
mentioned earlier
made me feel very called to do it um it
made me also
see art as someone who's doing it for
the first time
in a way that um is kind of boundless
in a way that could be a lot of things
and that is a lot of things
which was very fun for me and i think

English: 
Cheyenne: Yeah, so I was interested in this
project because when met Kosi, I remember
the coffee shop we went to and I remember
how well Kosi and also warmly you articulated
your vision.
And I’ve never… I don't know if I would
call myself an artist because this is my first
art piece, I’ve ever
done but I felt very like invited which was
a very beautiful thing.
And I think that the way Kosi curated this
piece was so beautiful in a way that, you
found all these pieces
and you put them together in a way that just
worked.
And I felt like when I was thinking about
my piece and the ideas in my piece, the fact
that it was living like I mentioned earlier,
made me feel very called to do it.
It made me also to see art as someone who's
doing it for the first time in a way that
is kind of boundless, in a way that could
be a lot of things, and that is a lot of things.

English: 
the whole experience was
of me dipping my toe in but also being
able to kind of
form that pond i would dip my toe in and
that was a very interesting
thing for me to experience so i think
that's why i was interested because the
way cozy framed it
um in such a beautiful light
and i think that the peace um
i have in my work the significance it
has on like
i guess my new art practice and a bunch
of other things
um is that most of my days
i'm growing food and teaching
my community for free and starting at
many farms my farm has four locations
and hopefully another one next year on a
rooftop which is a fairly large scale
but also seeing how things and
plants and food can survive and thrive
in an urban setting was very
interesting to me um many of my friends
who are black and indigenous who are
displaced here in toronto

English: 
Which was very fun for me and I think the
whole experience was of me dipping my toe
in but also being able to kind of form that
pond, I would dip my toe in and that was a
very interesting thing for me to experience.
So I think that's why I was interested because
the way Kosi framed it in such a beautiful
light and I think that the piece, I have in
my work.
The significance it has on like I guess my
new art practice and a bunch of other things is that most of my days I’m growing
food and teaching my community for free and
starting at many farms.
My farm has four locations and hopefully another
one next year on a rooftop which is a fairly
large scale but also seeing how things and
plants and food can survive and thrive in
an urban setting was very interesting to me.
Many of my friends who are Black and Indigenous
who are displaced here in Toronto still have

English: 
a relationship with food and land.
So figuring out a way to make space and take
up space with Sundance Harvest has been really
fun and really beautiful but also very hard.
So, I feel like my practice and my piece relates
to me continuously taking up space regarding
growing food and being able to respect and
form a longer relationship with the land.
So, I would say it has that significance,
I do think going forward, I’m probably going
to stick to living mediums.
I feel like that was a very exciting and fun
experience but yeah that's what I would say.
Rachelle: Thank you very much for that Cheyenne.
It raises another question from what you've
described. I’m wondering how from all of

English: 
still have a relationship with food and
land so figuring out a way to
make space and take up space
with sundance harvest has been really
fun and really beautiful but also very
hard
so i feel like my my practice and my
piece relates to um
me continuously taking up space
regarding
growing food and being able to respect
and form a longer relationship with the
land
so i would say it has that significance
i do think going forward i'm probably
going to stick to living mediums i feel
like that was a very
exciting and fun experience um but yeah
that's what i would say
thank you very much for that cheyenne it
raises another question
from what you've described i'm wondering
how
from all of you including how

English: 
the relationships between land
food black and indigenous women
how how can we influence the ways that
we understand
where our feet rest and then the
political climate within which
like that surrounds us so
uh is that is that clear is that
question clear
a little bit okay i'll try again
it's a really big question in my head
i'm trying to make it like
you know bite size um
the relationships that you talked about
cheyenne um
particularly because this is your first
installation piece and you you have
an ex by the sounds of it an extensive
practice that is
urban land-based as a black indigenous
woman
that that that provides or
that is a network of interconnections
that exceed human relationships right it
connects to land that connects to food

English: 
you especially Kosi, how the relationships
between land, food, Black and Indigenous women,
how can we influence the ways that we understand
where our feet rest and then the political
climate within which, like that surrounds
us?
So, is that is that clear is that question
clear? A little bit okay, I'll try again.
It's a really big question in my head, I’m
trying to make it like you know bite size.
The relationships that you talked about Cheyenne particularly because this is your first
installation piece and you have an ex… by
the sounds of it an extensive practice that
is urban land based as a Black Indigenous
woman.
That provides or that is a network of interconnections
that exceed human relationships whether it
connects to land or connects to food, connects
to distribution, it also is, it is intensely

English: 
it connects to distribution it also is
it is intensely political activist
resistance-based
uh resurgent and those are the kinds of
relationships that i'm referring to
and i'm i'm hoping that you can if i
explain it clearly enough
each of you can speak to how those
relationships
can
describe where we find ourselves today
how those relationships can
um give us a sense of belonging
um but also what their impacts may be
for the future
and you can speak to each of your
practices
he wants to go first
i can start yeah um
you know when i think about um
when i think about all of the work that
we're creating and we're thinking about

English: 
political activist resistance-based resurgent
and those are the kinds of relationships that
I’m referring to.
And I’m hoping that you can if I explain
it clearly enough, each of you can speak to
how those relationships can describe where
we find ourselves today, how those relationships
can give us a sense of belonging but also
what their impacts may be for the future and
you can speak to each of your practices.
So who wants to go first?
KC: I can start yeah, you know when I think
about… when I think about all of the

English: 
work that we're creating and we're thinking
about asserting control over our own narrative,
really.
I feel like that's pretty much like sums up
the exhibition.
And I’m gonna quote something that I often
live by my friend Steve Loft had said to
me… all right had said not to me but
he says when members of a community assert
control over their own lives and culture…
politically, socially and artistically they
go beyond oppression thus control of our own
image becomes not only an act of subversion
but of resistance and ultimately liberation.
And so when I create my work, I’m often
thinking about the people that came before

English: 
um asserting control over
our own narrative really i feel like
that's
pretty much like sums up the the
exhibition and
and i i'm gonna quote something that um
i often live by uh my friend steve loft
had said to me
um all right had said
not to me but um he says when members of
a community assert control over their
own lives
and culture politically socially and
artistically they go beyond
oppression thus control of our own image
becomes not only an act of subversion
but of resistance and ultimately
liberation and so when
i create my work i'm often thinking
about
the people that came before me
because uh i've been
told by uh some people that
you know we are the generation

English: 
me because I’ve been told by some people
that you know we are the generation that past
generations thought of, dreamt about.
And so, I think about the people who came
before me and how they dreamt of us living
this present time and how it's important.
It's our responsibility to think about that
legacy but not only just think about living
in the moment and doing the best that we can
and encouraging our community to rise up but
also to create our own narrative.
But we also have to think about like thinking
to the future because now we have to think
seven generations ahead and create… start
creating the pathways for that future generation
so that they can move us in a good way to
the future.

English: 
that past generations thought of dreamt
about
and so i think about the people who came
before
me and how they dreamt
of us living this present time
and how it's important it's our
responsibility
to think about that legacy
but not only just think about living in
the moment
and doing the best that we can and
encouraging our community
to rise up but also to create our own
narrative
but we also have to think about like
thinking to the future because now
we have to think seven generations ahead
and
create start creating the pathways
for that future generation so that they
can move us
in a good way to the future and um
i feel like art is

English: 
it's it's a great segue it's a great
form of communication but
it's also something that
from what i understand that everyone did
it was a necessity it was important part
of
their identity and who they were and you
couldn't
um you had to create beautiful things
you had to create beautiful objects you
had to create art so that you could
communicate to the ancestors and the
spirits
so um i i'm a big advocate
for using art and guiding us in
a good way towards a better future
closely do you want to jump in sure i'm
sorry that was really beautiful what you
said casey
um and so charlotte was such a hard
question
um it's a huge one it's a huge one and i
don't think i would have the answer
at all right now per se but for me

English: 
And I feel like art is, it's a great segue,
it's a great form of communication but it's
also something that from what I understand
that everyone did, it was a necessity, it
was important part of their identity and who
they were.
And you couldn't you had to create beautiful
things, you had to create beautiful objects,
you had to create art, so that you could communicate
to the ancestors and the spirits.
So I'm a big advocate for using art and guiding
us in a good way towards a better future.
Rachelle: Kosi, do you want to jump in?
Kosi: Sure, I’m going to try that was really
beautiful what you said KC and so that was
such a hard question. It's a huge one… it's
a huge one and I don't think I would have
the answer at all right now per se but for
me what the importance of these relationships…

English: 
I don't even know where to start and I think
maybe that's fine.
I think sometimes you just have to be with
those relationships and those things will
kind of come in and out of come out of
themselves in a way.
So for me throughout this entire process,
like this entire journey of curating this
show I feel as though I haven't fully processed
it and I feel as though.
I still don't fully understand the importance
and the significance of the relationships
that were developed, you know.
I just know that something's passing and something's
changing and I think its kind of just expanding
the way in which I think about things.
I think it's just expanding the way in which
i can imagine what it looks like, to even
imagine the colonial futures, right and you
know I mentioned this already about Cheyenne’s
work, but I feel her as though her work is
very much recent.
I feel as though again I can talk about the
dinner for forever because I think that just
gave me a glimpse into something so beautiful.
That was very politically important as well
right like coming together and not necessarily

English: 
what the importance of these
relationships
i don't even know where to start and i
think maybe that's fine
i think sometimes you just have to be
with those relationships and those
things will kind of come
in and out of um kind of come out of
themselves in a way
um so for me throughout this entire
process like this entire journey of
curating this show
i feel as though i haven't fully
processed it and i feel as though i
still don't fully understand the
importance and the significance of the
relationships that were developed you
know
i just know that something's passing and
something's changing
and i think it's kind of just expanding
the way in which i think about things
i think it's just expanding the way in
which i can imagine what it looks like
to
even imagine the colonial futures right
and you know i
mentioned this already about cheyenne's
work but i feel her as though her work
is very much recent
i feel as though again i can talk about
the dinner for forever because i think
that just gave me a glimpse into
something so beautiful
that was very politically important as
well right like coming together and not

English: 
necessarily to talk about deaths within
our communities which is what we hear
about all the time and oftentimes like
when i first saw black and indigenous
alliances it was at visuals
schedules from michael brown vigils for
so many uh
african-american men in the states
mainly who had passed away and that's
when i would see those allegiances right
those alliances
and the reality the reality is that we
can come together
just to be together and there's
something so beautiful about that
and i think it's again going back to the
ways in which divide and conquer have
been used
to to separate us um and to make sure
that we can't imagine futures like this
right so i don't know
how to speak to it because i think we're
creating it and i think
you know it is something that our
ancestors could only have dreamed of you
know
and for me there's one thing that like
personally i've gotten out of these
relationships and these are
part in part because of the
relationships i developed for my job
was through indigenous women in
particular i was able to start to
understand indigenous worldviews

English: 
to talk about deaths within our communities
which is what we hear about all the time.
And oftentimes like when I first saw Black
and indigenous alliances, it was at vigils.
Vigils for Michael Brown, vigils for so many African American men in the states mainly
who had passed away and that's when I would
see those allegiances, right.
Those alliances and the reality… the reality
is that we can come together just to be together
and there's something so beautiful about that.
And I think it's again going back to the ways
in which divide and conquer has been used
to separate us and to make sure that we can't
imagine futures like this, right.
So I don't know how to speak to it because
I think we're creating it and I think you
know it is something that our ancestors could
only have dreamed of, you know.
For me there's one thing that like personally
I’ve gotten out of these relationships and
these are part in part because of the relationships
I developed through my job was through indigenous
women in particular.

English: 
I was able to start to understand indigenous
world views and learning about things like
the seven generation principles, understanding
that we don't need to stick to this Western
ideology or these
Western ways of thinking made me realize that
I’m indigenous to my own land and I don't
know anything about it.
I don't know our technologies, I don't know
the ways in which we approach things and I’ve
lost all of that and I think that what we
have here is all that's possible and it's
not.
So I'm in a process of unlearning and learning
new things.
So, I don't have an answer because I’m kind
of just like going with the flow and trying
to just be open to new experiences, but
I think that's the beauty of it.
Rachelle: Thank you so much for that Kosi.
KC: I think I think that's where like blood
memory can be very, very helpful.
A lot of people don't really understand it
or tap into it we know it exists and scientists
have now
said that it exists but it's kind of…
I always say this analogy that it's monarch
butterflies never meet their parents and they
know exactly where to go, down south.

English: 
and learning about things like the seven
generation principles
understanding that we don't need to
stick to this western ideology or these
western ways of thinking
made me realize that i'm indigenous to
my own land and i don't know anything
about it
i don't know our technologies i don't
know the ways in which we approach
things
and i've lost all of that and i think
that what we have here is all that's
possible and it's not
so i'm in a process of unlearning and
learning new things so i don't have an
answer because i'm kind of just like
going with the flow and trying to just
be organizing experiences but i think
that's the beauty of
it
thank you so much for that um i think i
think that's where like blood memory can
be very very helpful
um a lot of people don't really
understand it or tap
into it um we know it exists and
scientists have now said that it exists
but it's it's kind of i always say this
analogy that it's um
monarch butterflies never meet their
parents and they know exactly where to
go

English: 
And they travel you know hundreds of kilometers
to go to a foreign land they've never been
to before.
So that is called blood memory and so within
ourselves, we are one of the most sophisticated
organisms on this planet right now and to
say that we don't have blood memory I think
is ridiculous.
So I think it's important as individuals that
we start understanding and accepting that
we have the knowledge within ourselves and
it's just really a matter of bringing it out
and tapping into it.
Katherine: That reminds me of the namesake
tradition, when someone passes and a new
person in the family is born like my son being
named after my uncle who passed, Paulusi.
They with the blood memory that you're talking
about KC Adams his spirit, his characteristics,

English: 
down south and they travel you know
hundreds of kilometers
to to go to a foreign land they've never
been to before
so that is called blood memory and so
within ourselves we are
one of the most sophisticated organisms
on this planet right now and to say that
we don't have blood memory i think is
ridiculous so
i think it's important as individuals
that we
start understanding and accepting that
we have the knowledge
within ourselves and it's just really a
matter
of bringing it out and tapping into it
that reminds me of the namesake
tradition
um when when someone passes
and um a new person in the family is
born like my
son being named after uh my uncle who
passed
uh paulusi um they
with the blood memory that you're
talking about casey adams
um his spirit his characteristics his

English: 
personality
is it's transferred and the knowledge
from everyone before um continues on um
and like like a cycle and um
your the blood memories it i think it's
transferable to
um all all of our cultures and
and in one way or another and how we
integrate it and into our lives and
everything
sorry i just had to add that
oh thank you that's great it's it's
it isn't it's not a fair question just
out of the gate that was a that was a
kind of a brain fart on my part but all
of your answers
may i also just say with the question um
i'm going to pull up um cozy
your your quote
it it often speaks to me when you said

English: 
his personality, is… it's transferred and
the knowledge from everyone before continues
on and like a cycle.
And you’re… the blood memories… I think
it's transferable to all of our cultures and
in one way or another and how we integrate
it and into our lives and everything.
Sorry, I just had to add that.
Rachelle: Oh! thank you. That's great. It
isn't… it's not a fair question just out
of the gate that was that was a kind of a
brain fart on my part but all of your answers…
Katherine: May I also just say with the question,
I’m going to pull up Kosi your quote, it

English: 
that
black and indigenous women are more than
just the seeds
that history has tried to bury they
represent
deep roots and a harvest more plentiful
than
we can ever imagine i really wanted to
add that
in into rochelle's uh question
because i i do think that with with all
of our
um similarities and we we have a lot of
differences
we we were all trying to
be buried but here we are and everything
is everything that we're doing now
everything that our communities are
doing
every little step
further towards a better future for all
of us
gives me a lot of hope and i love all
these conversations and i love
everything that we're all contributing
and putting out there and being able to

English: 
often speaks to me when you said that Black
and Indigenous women are more than just the
seeds that history has tried to bury.
They represent deep roots and a harvest more
plentiful than we can ever imagine I really
wanted to add that in into Rachelle’s
question because I do think that with all
of our similarities and we have a lot of differences.
We were all tried to be buried but here we
are and everything is everything that we're
doing now, everything that our communities
are doing, every little step further towards
a better future for all of us gives me a lot
of hope.
And I love all these conversations and I love
everything that we're all contributing and

English: 
be
vulnerable to be seen to be heard to
being
acknowledged i i just definitely wanted
to add that part
thank you very much catherine that was
that's
yeah cozy that quote from from the panel
from the exhibition was
incredible and and it does it does
there are there are so many different
elements that each of your artworks
bring
into this dialogue that is relational
um that is that is connected to
other than human relations uh kinships
ancestors and the land
and another way to frame the the
question could be
um when we're thinking about
relationships between
the food the land and the people um
and this question is for cheyenne as is
now because cheyenne hasn't had a chance

English: 
putting out there and being able to be vulnerable
to be seen, to be heard, to being acknowledged.
I just definitely wanted to add that part.
Rachelle: Thank you very much Kathryn that
was that's yeah Kosi that quote from the panel,
from the exhibition was incredible and it
does… it does there are so many different
elements that each of your artworks bring
into this dialogue that is relational.
That is… that is connected to other than
human relations kinships, ancestors, and
the land.
And another way to frame the question could
be when we're thinking about relationships
between the food, the land, and the people
and this question is for Cheyenne as is now

English: 
because Cheyenne hasn't had a chance to talk
about this yet.
Is do you find in your practice Cheyenne
that the way that you connect food and land
and human beings in an urban context. How
does it inform your perception of the politicization
of food and territoriality, identity, boundaries,
and water?
For example, does that make sense like how
do you perceive that in our current political
context and then what might that look like
for you going forward?
Cheyenne: Yeah, so how I perceive the relationship
between all three food and land and myself.
Okay, the political context.
I would say that like growing up, I didn't
have any relationship to food and land a lot
of like my family history is… I can't find
so it was just really going off of what I

English: 
to talk about this yet
is uh do you find in your practice
cheyenne that
that the way that you connect
food at land and human beings in the
urban context
how does it inform your perception of
the politicization of food and
territoriality identity boundaries and
water for example does that make sense
like how do you perceive that in our
current political context and then what
might that look like for you going
forward
yeah so how i perceived the relationship
between all three food and land
and myself okay um
the political context uh i would say
that like
um growing up i didn't have any
relationship to food and land
a lot of like my family history is i
can't uh
find so it was just really going off of

English: 
what i felt like
when i started to grow food and i really
went off of
stories of people who look like me and
stories of people who fought for
liberation on land and food who i felt a
similar relationship to
so i would say that the very interesting
thing for me
was that despite me not knowing or being
able to find a lot about my
lineage um the really beautiful thing i
always remembered and i always said to
myself was everyone at one time in the
world
had an aggregation past so that doesn't
mean growing fruit to salad that simply
means growing food to sustain your
yourself and your community so despite
me not having footings and
these footings were washed away due to
colonialism
i still had an understanding that what i
was doing
was something that at one time an
ancestor of mine
did so even though i couldn't find a
direct relationship between food and
land in terms of
looking at a book and saying this was my
great great grandfather
i knew that some somewhere a while ago

English: 
felt like when I started to grow food.
And I really went off of stories of people
who look like me and stories of people who
fought for liberation on land and food who
I felt the similar relationship to.
So I would say that the very interesting thing
for me was that despite me not knowing or
being able to find a lot about my lineage.
The really beautiful thing I always remembered,
and I always said to myself was everyone at
one time in the world had an aggregation past.
So that doesn't mean growing food to sell
it that simply means growing food to sustain
you yourself and your community.
So, despite me not having footings and these
footings were washed away due to colonialism.
I still had an understanding that what I was
doing was something that at one time an ancestor
of mine did so even though I couldn't find
a direct relationship between food and land.
In terms of looking at a book and saying this
was my great-great grandfather, I knew that

English: 
my greater grandfather grew food as well
so i felt like that was a piece that
really wanted me to
be a farmer because i in any other
career i
wouldn't feel the same thai i wouldn't
feel the same like kinship
because i would know that maybe my great
great grandfather wasn't an
astrophysicist
uh but at one point they grew corn so
i feel like that's the part that really
ties it together and it's the
unbreakable bond i think
which is really beautiful the
unbreakable bond of no matter what i
know that i'll have that peace
and no matter what i know that for any
liberation to ever takes place
food and land have to be there because
these are the things that sustain
communities
and that's very important so i would say
that's the political piece that i found
and
and knowing that and you know as i get
older
um getting more used to that and you
also get more used to knowing that it's
okay that maybe
i'm not as well aware of my lineage but
i am well aware of now i have a deep

English: 
some… somewhere a while ago my great-great
grandfather grew food as well.
So I felt like that was a piece that really
wanted me to be a farmer because I in any
other career, I wouldn't feel the same tie,
I wouldn't feel the same like kinship because
I would know that maybe my great great-great-grandfather
wasn't an astrophysicist but at one point
they grew corns.
So I feel like that's the part that really
ties it together and it's the unbreakable
bond.
I think which is really beautiful, the unbreakable
bond of no matter what I know that I’ll
have that piece.
And no matter what I know that for any liberation
to ever takes place food and land have to
be there because these are the things that
sustain communities.
And that's very important so I would say that's
the political piece that I found and knowing
that and you know as I get older getting
more used to that.
And you also get more used to knowing that
it's okay that maybe I’m not as well aware
of my lineage but I am well aware of now,
I have a deep relationship with the land,

English: 
one that can never be replaced and one that
will always grow.
Which is really beautiful, and I feel like
my piece was kind of like that.
My piece was about relationships and the symbiotic
relationships and also the relationships that
you don't see and that's why I included compost
instead of potting soil, because I wanted
the fungi and the bacteria that they have
their own relationship with the plant, and
you can't see it but that doesn't mean it
doesn't exist.
So that's also in a way with the spirit world
and in the way with ancestors that you don't
maybe see but they exist.
The compost in my eyes and that piece had
that relationship.
Rachelle: So that's… thanks, that's amazing
and it's amazing because when you're talking
about the things that aren't seen.
I’ve been thinking a lot about this exhibition.
For a couple of reasons, one I wasn't able
to make it to the dinner and I’ve been thinking

English: 
relationship with the land one that can
never be replaced and one that will
always grow
uh which is really beautiful and i feel
like my piece
was kind of like that my piece was about
relationships and the symbiotic
relationships and also the relationships
that you don't see
and that's why i included compost
instead of potting soil because i wanted
the fungi and bacteria that they have
their own relationship with the plant
and you can't see it but that doesn't
mean it doesn't exist
so that's also in a way with the spirit
world and in the way with ancestors that
you don't maybe see but they exist
the compost in my eyes and that piece
had that relationship
so that's a that thanks that's amazing
and it's amazing because
when you're talking about the things
that aren't seen
um i've been thinking a lot about this
exhibition
for a couple of reasons one i wasn't
able to make it to the dinner and i've
been thinking a lot about it ever since
then

English: 
um because i regret it and
uh two i'm thinking a lot about it
because
because of the number and the complexity
of interrelationships and intersections
of the tangible and intangible
um
elements that we take for granted like i
have a bag of almonds on my table
i don't know where they came from
california i assume but they nourish me
and i have no connection to their source
however
i am connected to each of you right now
and so
when i'm thinking about that in this
exhibition the human relationships that
each of you have referred to
either because you were the one that is
connecting us
to the land or because they're connected
to each other
or just because we're having this
conversation online ironically we're not
together
um it's it's incredibly fascinating
how when you start to become aware of

English: 
a lot about it ever since then because I regret
it and two I’m thinking a lot about it because
of the number and the complexity of interrelationships
and intersections of tangible and intangible
elements that we take for granted.
Like I have a bag of almonds on my table,
I don't know where they came from… California
I assume but they nourish me, and I have no
connection to their source. However, I am
connected to each of you right now
And so when I’m thinking about that and
this exhibition, the human relationships that
each of you have referred to, either because
if you were the one that is connecting us
to the land or because you're connected to
each other or just because we're having this
conversation online, ironically.
We're not together though you're still connected,
it's incredibly fascinating.

English: 
the scene and the unseen working
together
it's a really interesting thing that
happens and it's been happening as i've
been talking to
closely in the artists about the show it
blows open
so all of the comments thus far
have gestured to things that are more
imperceptible but rather felt
emotionally uh or spiritually
um and i
i'm curious to know if um
catherine if you can talk a bit about
the energy at the dinner
uh about about the people in the space
together and then maybe cozy can
can join in and you can talk about that
energy because i think that energy is a
thread that lives
throughout this exhibition and
ultimately
comes right down to the core of what i
value about the exhibition overall

English: 
How… when you start to become aware of the
scene and the unseen working together, it's
a really interesting thing that happens and
it's been happening as I’ve been talking
to most of the artists about the show, it
blows open.
So all of the comments thus far have gestured
to things that are more imperceptible but
rather felt emotionally or spiritually.
And I’m curious to know if Katherine…
if you can talk a bit about the energy at
the dinner.
About the people in the space together and
then maybe Kosi can join in and you can talk
about that energy because I think that energy
is a thread that lives throughout this exhibition
and ultimately comes right down to the core
of what I value about the exhibition, overall.

English: 
hi um i'm unmuted okay
i wanted to say that
it was um it was extremely
fluid i i was almost like a fly in a
wall
because i was jumping from one corner to
the next
i wasn't particularly in one
conversation but overhearing
everyone come together and all
i remember is the feeling about
about the room when i when i was
bouncing around taking
images of everything was that when i
think back
and look um to my memory
about about what was going on
there was a lot of connection there was
a lot of laughs
there was a lot of agreements
there was there was this space
everyone gave each other space to talk

English: 
Katherine: Hi, I’m unmuted. Okay, I wanted
to say that it was… it was extremely fluid,
I was almost like a fly in a wall because
I was jumping from one corner to the next.
I wasn't particularly in one conversation
but overhearing everyone come together and
all I remember is the feeling about the room.
When I was bouncing around taking images of
everything was that, when I think back and
look to my memory about what was going on.
There was a lot of connection, there was a
lot of laughs, there was a lot of agreeance,
there was… there was this space, everyone
gave each other space to talk and then to

English: 
be listened to, it everyone had their moment.
And it wasn't rushed, it was very intimate,
and everyone did care so much and then you
can just feel that in the entire room, the
whole time it was… it was kind of magical.
I’m getting goosebumps a little remembering
it because I would… I would bounce to one
side of this long table filled with beautiful
women in two spirit.
And they were they were sharing food, passing
food talking about their histories, their
realities and everyone was so respectful and
honest and vulnerable and you could really
feel that everywhere the intimacy was there
and it was… it was special.
It was a very special night.

English: 
and then to be listened to it
everyone had their moment
and it wasn't rushed it was
it was it was very intimate and everyone
did
care so much and and then you can just
feel that
in the entire room the the whole time
it it was it was kind of magical i'm
getting goosebumps a little
um remembering it because i would i
would bounce to one side
of this long table filled with beautiful
women in two spirit
and they were they were sharing food
passing food talking about their
histories their realities
and and everyone was so
respectful and and honest and vulnerable
and and you could really feel that
everywhere the intimacy
was was there and it was it was special
it was a very special night

English: 
Kosi: So, I can provide a little bit more
context because I feel as though like Katherine
and I know exactly what that night was like
and think that was done in part on purpose
to be totally honest.
That night was a private night for Black and
Indigenous women and Two Spirit people and
what we wanted to show as part of the exhibition
was just a glimpse into what it was.
So, when we talk about a feeling it's just
it was exactly that it was a really, really
beautiful night.
So just additional context, so that was the
first piece of public programming for the
exhibition so
this would be the second I think and it actually
happened before the exhibition actually opened.
So, it happened on November 29th and there
was a dinner that was just closed to Black
and Indigenous women and two spirit people
I think we were between like 14 and 20.
I don't remember how many exactly a lot of
it was people that I knew from my job,
from just like friends and so on and then
some people that I didn't know that were also

English: 
so i can i can provide a little bit more
context because i feel as though like
catherine and i know exactly what that
night was like
and i think that was done in part on
purpose to be totally honest
um that night was a private night
for black and indigenous women and two
spirit people and
what we wanted to show as part of the
exhibition was just a glimpse into what
it was
so when we talk about a feeling it's
just it was exactly that it was a really
really beautiful night
um so just additional context so that
was the first
piece of public programming for the
exhibition um so this would be the
second i think
um and it actually happened before the
exhibition actually opened so it
happened on november 29th
and there was a dinner that was just
close to black and indigenous women and
two spirit people i think we were
between like 14 and 20. i don't remember
how many exactly
a lot of it was uh people that i knew um
from my job
from just like friends and so on and
then some people that i didn't know that

English: 
were also invited
to be part of that dinner and again
going back to the origins of the
exhibition
it was again from that feeling of not
knowing
uh naturally knowing indigenous peoples
when i would go into their communities
and feeling like an intruder
and feeling like i wasn't actually doing
more than lip service because i was
i didn't understand what what the
relationship was between us or we didn't
really have the relationship that i
wanted
and that i felt would be truly that of
an ally
so because of that i felt as though i
had to organize this dinner and carlton
was so
generous in helping to organize and
hiring two co-facilitators
but i felt as though i had to
re-envision the kinds of relationships
that could be possible i needed to have
a moment where i could have dinner with
indigenous women and two great people
and feel as though there was kinship
feel as though i could get to know them
on a personal level
get to know them as people and really
start to like share myself
and have them share themselves with me
and i knew that i had to build towards

English: 
invited to be part of that dinner.
And again, going back to the origins of the
exhibition, it was again from that feeling
of not knowing.
Naturally knowing indigenous peoples, when
I would go into their communities and feeling
like an intruder and feeling like I wasn't
actually doing more than lip service because
I was… I didn't understand what the relationship
was between us or we didn't really have the
relationship that I wanted.
And that I felt would be truly that of an
ally.
So, because of that I felt as though I had
to organize this dinner and Carleton was so
generous in helping to organize and hiring
two co-facilitators but I felt as though I
had to re-envision the kinds of relationships
that could be possible.
I needed to have a moment where I could have
dinner with indigenous women and two spirit
people
and feel as though there's kinship, feel as
though I could get to know them on a personal
level, get to know them as people and really
start to like share myself and have them share
themselves with me.

English: 
And I knew that I had to build towards that
so it had to be a space that felt comfortable
and I have to I had to actually, initially,
there was a possibility of me kind of facilitating
the dinner and I knew that I couldn't do that.
I knew that coming from government, I still
have that mentality and I feel as though,
it's very extractive at times and I didn't
want to then perpetuate that within that setting.
So I felt as though I had to put myself in
position of someone who's unlearning and learning
new ways of engaging.
So we hired two co-facilitators one Muna
Mohamed who's a Black woman and then Peplinski
who's a Two-Spirit Indigenous person and
they work together to kind of like set out
their vision for what the dinner should be
like and they were the ones that decided to
do a sharing circle.
We started off with Verna McGregor, who's
an elder.
Who started with an opening prayer and then
from there she kind of just invited everyone
to share a bit about themselves.
And when Katherine mentioned every person
that had that feather in their hand even though

English: 
that
um so it had to be a space that felt
comfortable and
i have to i had to actually um initially
there was a possibility of me kind of
facilitating the dinner
and i knew that i couldn't do that i
knew that coming from government
i still had that mentality and i feel as
though it's
very extracted at times and i didn't
want to then perpetuate that within that
setting
so i felt as though i had to put myself
in position as someone who's unlearning
and learning new ways of engaging
so we hired two co-facilitators one moon
and muhammad who's a black woman
and then paplinsky who's a two-spirit uh
indigenous person
and they work together to kind of like
set out their vision for what the dinner
should be like
and they were the ones that decided to
do a sharing circle um we started off
with vernon mcgregor who's an elder
who started with an opening prayer um
and then from there she kind of just
invited everyone to share a bit about
themselves and my catherine mentioned
every person that had that feather in
their hand even though they were just

English: 
prodded to share a bit about themselves
they shared so much
and there was just this outpour of like
a desire to be heard and to be seen
and each person just shared and shared
and shared and we all helped be
space for each other and i think there
was a lot of vulnerability there was
a lot of honesty and there was a feeling
that you know you could be held in that
space
that you would be listening to and that
people would be there to not only hold
you
in the moments of pain when you're
sharing things that are difficult for
you they'll laugh with you at dinner
you know and that's exactly what
happened um so when we talked about that
kind of intimate energy
it was exactly that and we wanted to
preserve that for ourselves so there's
no video there's no audio
no one can overhear what was said and
that's in part because of other
experiences that i've had
where i feel as though sometimes schools
coming together those moments of coming
together are done in a way that's
voyeuristic
for the pleasure of other people and i
wanted this to be for us
and that's why you have the photos but
those memories are ours and ours alone

English: 
they were just prodded to share a bit about
themselves.
They shared so much and there was just this
outpour of like a desire to be heard and to
be seen and each person just shared and shared
and shared and we all helped be space for
each other and I think there was a lot of
vulnerability.
There was a lot of honesty and there was a
feeling that you know you could be held in
that space,
that you would be listening to and that people
would be there to not only hold you in the
moments of pain when you're sharing things
that are difficult for you.
They'll laugh with you at dinner, you know
and that's exactly what happened.
So when we talked about that kind of intimate
energy.
It was exactly that and we wanted to preserve
that for ourselves so there's no video, there's
no audio,
no one can overhear what was said.
And that's in part because of other experiences
that I’ve had where I feel as though sometimes
moments coming together… those moments just
coming together are done in a way that's voyeuristic
for the pleasure of other people.
And I wanted this to be for us and that's
why you have the photos, but those memories
are ours and ours alone.

English: 
Rachelle: Ah! that sounds amazing.
It's interesting too because we've talked
a lot about creating community and what's
interesting is that the notion that creating
community requires safety to a certain extent.
And I think that's important to note and again
it goes back to drawing attention to the things
that are
seen and unseen, felt and then unfelt or are
imperceivable.
When we begin to think about what art can
do, what constitutes art, what is art, what
makes something art, and then intentionality
of you know investing your life's work in
growing something and building something.
All of you are makers, you're all growers,
you know it's amazing.
I want to shift a little bit to talk about
the opening.

English: 
that sounds amazing it's not it's
interesting too because
uh we've talked a lot about creating
community
and what's interesting is that the
notion that creating community requires
safety to a certain extent
um and i think that's important to note
and again it goes back to drawing
attention to the things that are seen
and unseen
health and then felt or are
imperceivable
when when we begin to think about what
art can do
um what constitutes art what is art what
what makes something art
and then intentionality of you know
investing your life's work in
growing something and building something
all of you are makers
you're all growers you know it's amazing
um i want to shift a little bit to talk
about the opening
i have a path that i'm kind of wandering
now

English: 
i'm totally prepared to get off that
path but i have a path so i wanted to
ask
about the opening um
and kasich if you want to talk a little
bit about
what these may sound like your name
questions but
i'm curious what did you think when you
saw when you first walked into the
gallery and saw all the works together
in the space like what was your first
reaction
well i have to say that i came in ahead
of time
to what when the works were still being
installed and
the reason being is that i had to
construct
all of these clay vessels using the
techniques that i had been learning
and what was really great was that i was
given
all these volunteers to come in
and help me and we sat on the floor
and it was really it was about it felt
like
this wonderful little community and we

English: 
I have a path that I’m kind of wandering
now, I’m totally prepared to get off that
path, but I have a path, so I wanted to ask
about the opening.
And KC, if you want to talk a little bit about
what these may sound like any questions but
I’m curious what did you think, when you
saw when you first walked into the gallery
and saw all the works together in the space
like what was your first reaction.
KC: Well, I have to say that I came in ahead
of time to what when the works were still
being installed and
the reason being is that I had to construct
all of these clay vessels using the techniques
that I had been learning and what was really
great was that I was given all these volunteers
to come in and help me.
And we sat on the floor and it was really,
it was about, it felt like this wonderful

English: 
all worked together
and we laughed and we shared stories and
we just worked on the ground right there
in the gallery space
just making a mess fortunately we had
tarps and then
and then as each vessel was being
created and was like
drying we'd put it on a rock and just
slowly this little
it felt like a community because you
know the vessels represent the body
the the indigenous body and so it felt
like these little
entities were being grown right in front
of us they were
they're presenting itself right in front
of us and
so it was a really beautiful experience
for myself
to also then see the artwork
coming up as well and
getting into the space and i like to see
an exhibition when it's already hung so
that so that i get that
immersive experience just like every
other gallery goer does
they get to be surprised and

English: 
little community and we all worked together
and we laughed and we shared stories and we
just worked on the ground right there in the
gallery space just making a mess.
Fortunately, we had tarps and then as each
vessel was being created and was like drying,
we'd put it on a rock and just slowly this
little, it felt like a community because you
know the vessels represent the body - the
indigenous body and so it felt like these
little entities were being grown right in
front of us.
They were… they're presenting itself right
in front of us and so, it was a really beautiful
experience for myself to also then see the
artwork coming up as well.
And getting into the space and I like to see
an exhibition when it's already hung so that
so that I get that immersive experience just
like every other gallery goer does.

English: 
enlightened and feel the joy or feel the
the wonderfulness of the art that's
being created in
um it was really powerful because
it feels like the dinner that oh there's
the pictures
of us making a big mess uh
the dinner that that's being described
kind of felt like the opening where
like-minded uh artists
coming together seeing themselves as
seeds and growing and thriving
that's that's what it felt like to me so
it it was very magical
it was it was an incredible experience
and
um i i'm just so incredibly grateful
that i had that opportunity
and now that the exhibition's over
the vessels are now going back to the
land with the exception of some of the
people who volunteered

English: 
They get to be surprised and enlightened and
feel the joy or feel the wonderfulness of
the art that's being created in… it was
really powerful because it feels like the
dinner that.
Oh! there's the pictures of us making a big
mess.
The dinner that that's being described kind
of felt like the opening where like-minded
artists coming together seeing themselves
as seeds and growing and thriving that's what
it felt like to me so it was very magical.
It was it was an incredible experience and
I’m just so incredibly grateful that I had
that opportunity.
And now that the exhibition's over, the vessels
are now going back to the land with the exception

English: 
of some of the people who volunteered… who
are now keeping the vessels, so they have
a home.
And that's a wonderful shot of all of us who
were came to the opening so I’m very, very,
very pleased about the whole thing.
I hope that answered the question I feel like
I went on a tangent there.
Rachelle: It was great. It was… it was great.
Cheyenne, did you want to talk a little bit
about how you felt going into that into the
gallery and seeing in your work in dialogue
with all the all the other works.
Cheyenne: Yeah, so I would say it was a lot
in a very good way, it was very also interesting
seeing how many different types of works very
different, but all connected with food.
For example, Bushra’s piece about the two
girls in the sugar cane field.

English: 
um who are now keeping the vessels so
they have a home and uh that's a
wonderful shot of
of all of us who uh were came to the
opening so i'm very
very very pleased about the whole thing
i hope that answers the question i feel
like i went on a tangent there
it was great it was it was great um
cheyenne did you want to talk a little
bit about
how you felt going into that into the
gallery and seeing
seeing your work in dialogue with all
the all the other works
yeah so
i would say it was all it was like a lot
in a very good way
um it was very also interesting seeing
how many different types of works
were very different but all connected
was food
for example bush rose piece about the
two girls
in the sugar cane field that's that was
a lot connected in a way

English: 
to my piece but it also was connected to
the piece about cod fishing
um because it was about the
relationship between bodies on land and
food and
going into it like the gallery and
seeing it especially in the opening
um it was very i would how do i say it
uh it was very nice and very interesting
to see the interconnection
of the all the pieces um
and i would say that a lot of the pieces
made me think about
the future and also like what do the
pieces have
in now like what are the relationship to
everyone's piece
in the current day for example casey
adams your piece
spoke about the ongoing colonialism of
indigenous people and in their food
right and how the western diet is
destructive and that's ongoing now
as well and then the piece about the cod
fishing
cod is still such a staple in many
caribbean diets that's still ongoing now
so it's very interesting to see

English: 
That's… that was a lot connected in a way
to my piece but it also it was connected to
the piece about cod fishing because it was
about the relationship between bodies on land
and food.
And going into it like the gallery and seeing
it especially in the opening it was very,
I would how do I say it, it was very nice
and very interesting to see the interconnection
of the all the pieces.
And I would say that a lot of the pieces made
me think about the future and also like what
do the pieces have in now, like what are the
relationship to everyone's piece in the current
day.
For example, KC Adams your piece spoke about
the ongoing colonialism of indigenous people
and in their food right and how the Western
diet is destructive and that's ongoing now
as well.
And then the piece about the cod fishing.
Cod is still such a staple in many Caribbean
diets that's still ongoing now.
So, it's very interesting to see the way these
pieces had as big stake in the past but also

English: 
the way these pieces had as big stake in
the past but also in the present and
then
hopefully in the future in a different
way for a lot of the pieces and
maybe a different light i think if i'm
saying that correctly
so yeah and it just was very fun because
i couldn't do it
it was very imaginative like i would
think about um
what are the people who made these
pieces what were their feelings when
they're making these pieces what were
their dreams what were their hopes what
did they hope
the piece would turn into in the end in
people's minds
so i think that it was a very
beautiful opening because something such
as land and food
has a different pull to everyone else so
everyone who would see and be seeing
each different piece
would have a different feeling toward it
or a different relationship toward it or
maybe they've experienced something in
that piece themselves
and then they can imagine what their
future would be and maybe the piece
could spark
that so i i that's what i felt i felt
very moved by
everyone's peace and obviously i felt

English: 
in the present and then… hopefully in the
future in a different way for a lot of the
pieces and maybe a different light, I think
if I’m saying that correctly.
So yeah, and it just was very fun because
I couldn't do it, it was very like imaginative
like I would think about what are the people
who made these pieces, what were their feelings
when they're making these pieces, what were
their dreams, what were their hopes, what
did they hope… the piece would turn into
in the end in people's minds.
So, I think that it was a very beautiful opening
because something such as land and food has
a different pull to everyone else.
So everyone who would see and be seeing each
different piece would have a different feeling
toward it or a different relationship toward
it or maybe they've experienced something
in that piece themselves and then they can
imagine what their future would be and maybe
the piece could spark that.
So, I that's what I felt I felt very moved
by everyone's piece and obviously I felt moved

English: 
lived in different ways with everyone's
peace
was it um how has
the opportunity to to be in the space
with the artists
with everybody during the opening in the
audience and stuff how
how has that transitioned if it has
or it maybe influenced how you think
about
your farming practice community um
and ancestry in general
yeah i think the biggest piece i pulled
away that influences me today is
all of those pieces coexisted in the
same space
and all those pieces had their own space
uh to co-exist
um and i think that piece really made me
think about collaboration and
cooperation and how they all
were a piece in the puzzle of

English: 
in different ways with everyone's piece.
Rachelle: Was it? How has the opportunity
to be in the space with the artists with everybody
during the opening in the audience and stuff,
how has that transitioned if it has or it
may influence how you think about your farming
practice community and ancestry in general.
Cheyenne: Yeah, I think the biggest piece
I pulled away that will stay with me is that
all of those pieces it coexisted in the same
space and all those pieces had their own space
to coexist.
And I think that piece really made me think
about collaboration and cooperation and how

English: 
that curation um not to get too
but uh that's kind of what i was feeling
um and in my work today
um i think a lot of what my work today
is also
about doing work regarding creating my
own futures
and i do think that a lot of the pieces
i saw
um meant a lot to me because people were
telling their own
history they had their own space they're
making their own piece
um and it was theirs and it was their
history to tell and i think that was
really beautiful
so i feel like i carried it over to my
own farming practice
um by ensuring that i tell my own
history and tell my own story with my
farm and how i run it
but also that i work in collaboration
and cooperation with people who are
already doing the work and who have been
doing the work on the land
like for example in one of the youth
gardens i i run
i say tobacco seed and i save klc they
save all these different seeds and i
give them away to people that i work in

English: 
they all were a piece in the puzzle of that
curation not to get too… but that's kind
of what I was feeling and, in my work, today.
I think a lot of what my work today is also
about doing work regarding creating my own
futures and I do think that a lot of the pieces
I saw, meant a lot to me because people were
telling their own
history.
They had their own space; they're making their
own piece and it was theirs and it was…
their history to tell and I think that was
really beautiful.
So, I feel like I carried it over to my own
farming practice by ensuring that I tell my
own history and tell my own story with my
farm and how I run it but also that I work
in collaboration and cooperation with people
who are already doing the work and who have
been doing the work on the land.
Like for example, in one of the youth gardens
I run, I say tobacco seed and I save KLC…
They save all these different seeds and I
give them away to people that I work in collaboration
with.

English: 
collaboration with and then they grow
them next year and then they save the
seed and they give it to me
and i feel like that that is really
beautiful that interconnection
works and sometimes they grow seed that
i don't even grow
but did i get that because they chose to
do that and
um but yeah i hope i answered that
question
yeah you answered it amazingly thank you
and and again there's so much stuff
there's so much it's uh it's very very
rich
um one of the things that i want to
start to turn towards
um so i was asking those last couple of
questions because
i find it incredibly important as a as a
curator and scholar
with mixed ancestry that who honors both
and
and moves through different communities
and my communities crossover let's do
many
that this is an exhibition of black and
indigenous artists

English: 
And then they grow the next year and then
they save the seed and they give it to me,
and I feel like that that is really beautiful
and that interconnection works and sometimes
they grow seed that I don't even grow but
did I get that because they chose to do that
and but yeah, I hope I answered that question.
Rachelle: Yeah, you answered it amazingly.
Thank you and again there's so much stuff…
there's so much it's very, very rich.
One of the things that I want to start to
turn towards.
So I was asking those last couple of questions
because I find it incredibly important as
a curator and a scholar with mixed ancestry
that who honors both and moves through different
communities.
And my communities cross over as do many.
This is an exhibition of Black and Indigenous
artists working together and sharing space

English: 
working together and sharing space um
and and that the exhibition itself
really focuses on building these
connections and i'm wondering if
each of you can talk a little bit about
why does it matter
now that black and indigenous women are
sharing this particular space
kathryn do you want to go first
hi um sure i would love to i think
um there was this article i had read
i think it was about two weeks ago uh
about d
colonial love and how
it had also mentioned black and
indigenous
and bipoc coming together
in strength of unity how
how um there there was this one quote
um the that a first nations woman

English: 
and that the exhibition itself really focuses
on building these connections and I’m wondering
if each of you can talk a
little bit about… Why does it matter now
that Black and Indigenous women are sharing
this particular space?
Katherine do you want to go first?
Katherine: Hi! Sure. I would love to. I think
there was this article I had read.
I think it was about two weeks ago about deep
colonial love and how it had also mentioned
Black and Indigenous and BIPOC coming together
in strength of unity.
How there was this one quote… that a first
nations woman had mentioned that a chief had

English: 
broke one arrow and said that one arrow alone
is easy to break and then held a handful of
arrows together and tried to break those and
couldn't.
And how even though we have a lot of unique
differences, there's a lot of similarity and
strength together and that term deep colonial
love just stuck in my head.
And I feel like when you asked that, that
was just the first thing that came into my
mind and something
about strength and unity, if that makes sense.
Rachelle: It absolutely makes total sense,
thank you.
Kosi, do you wanna?

English: 
had mentioned that um a chief i broke
one arrow
and and said that um one arrow
alone is easy to break and then held
a handful of arrows together and tried
to break those and couldn't and how
how even though we have
um a lot of um
unique um differences
there's a lot of similarity and strength
together um and and that that term deep
colonial love just stuck in my head
and i i feel like um
when when you asked that that was just
the first thing that
um came into my mind and something
about strength and unity
if that makes sense it absolutely makes
total sense
thank you uh coursie do you want to

English: 
Kosi: Yeah, definitely.
So I think one of the things, I’ve been
really interested in is going back to the
role of the state and kind of like how the
state has kind of colored the kinds of relations
that have been possible in the past between
Black and Indigenous peoples.
And even like looking to again how this exhibition
seems to be, it's because me representing
the government meant that I couldn't engage
in ways that self-authentic right because
I just…
It just didn't work so that was again through
that lens of the state really preventing me
from having that kind of solidarity that was
rooted in trust because those two things couldn't
work together.
So, part of what I was trying to do with this
exhibition and what a lot of the work speak
to, in very beautiful ways because they're
all very incredibly nuanced to pieces of work.
There's always this undercurrent of how the
state has kind of impacted Black and Indigenous

English: 
yeah definitely um so i think
one of the things i've been really
interested in
is going back to the role of the state
and kind of like how the state has kind
of colored the kinds of relations
that have been possible in the past
between black and indigenous peoples
and even like looking to again how this
exhibition seems to be
it's because me representing the
government meant that i couldn't engage
in ways that self-authentic
right um because i do it just didn't
work so that was again through that lens
of the state
really preventing me from having that
kind of solidarity that was rooted in
trust because those two things couldn't
work together
so part of what i was trying to do with
this exhibition
and what a lot of the work speak to in
very beautiful ways because they're all
very
incredibly nuanced to pieces of work um
there's always this undercurrent of how
the state has kind of

English: 
people differently and how that has at times
presented that kind of unity or has not yet
has prevented it.
I think there's also in terms of the way in
which history is conveyed back to us, we can't
see the ways in
which we might have actually been allied and
work together like that's hidden.
Right, so that's why like there is that language
of a counter archive because I think those
things have been hidden intentionally.
So how can we in the present kind of create
a counter archive but also create new relationships
that make them make it visible that we can
be together in these ways.
And then create an archive of those… these
moments as well because I do think again like
even
going back to KC’s work and the five white
gifts.
Those were rations of food that were given
to indigenous folks as they were being taken
off their land and placed onto reserves by
the government of Canada like that is the
government that actually, did that.
And I think you know as a government official
sometimes I wonder if I talk too much about
things like this and if I’m supposed to
but whatever.
But like I think reconciliation is an acknowledgement
of the historic wrongs, right of historic
policies that
have led to where we are right now.

English: 
impacted black musicians people
differently and how that has at times
presented that kind of unity
or has not yet has prevented it i think
there's also in terms of
the way in which history is conveyed
back to us we can't see the ways in
which we might have actually been allies
and work together like that's hidden
right so that's why like there is that
language of a counter archive
because i think those things have been
hidden intentionally
so how can we in the presence kind of
create a counter archive but also create
new relationships
that make them make it visible that we
can be together in these ways
and then create an archive of those
these moments as well
um because i do think again like even
going back to casey's work
and the five white gifts those were
rations of food that were given to
indigenous folks as they were being
taken off their land and placed onto
reserves
i think reconciliation is an
acknowledgement of the historic
wrongs right of historic policies that
have led to where we are right now
and i think in order to understand the

English: 
ways in which we have related
um in ways that have been really
productive or maybe we haven't seen that
it is in part because of what the state
has done so again if you look at
deanna's work
um african-american settlers coming to
the prairies coming to alberta
the government didn't even want them to
come literally tried to pass legislation
to prevent african-americans from coming
to canada because we were never meant to
be part of that kind of
um imaginary of of settlers right we
weren't part of it was supposed to be
part of this
imaginary of canadian of what canada was
meant to be
so even that kind of migration has
always been kind of
affected by canadian policies and so on
so i think
for me there's always that interrogation
um
even when we're talking about the the
relationships between black indigenous
people
always interviewing the state um and the
role of the state and trying to think
through
futures that see us coming together more
collaboratively

English: 
And I think in order to understand the ways
in which we have related in ways that have
been really productive or maybe we haven't
seen that, it is in part because of what the
state has done so again if you look at Deana’s
work African American settlers coming to the
prairies coming to Alberta.
The government didn't even want them to come
literally try to pass legislation to prevent
African Americans from coming to Canada because
we were never meant to be part of that kind
of imaginary of settlers right.
We weren't part of it was supposed to be part
of this imaginary of Canadian of what Canada
was meant to be.
So even that kind of migration has always
been kind of affected by Canadian policies
and so on.
So, I think for me there's always that interrogation
even when we're talking about the relationships
between Black and Indigenous people.
Always encouraging the state and the role
of the state and trying to think through futures
that see us coming together more collaboratively
and building different ways of sharing…

English: 
of sharing power sharing responsibility like
mutual aid and so on.
I think that requires a certain level of imagination
and thinking outside of certain constraints.
Rachelle: Yeah, thank you. KC do you want
to way in?
KC: Well I just want to say two things.
One is you know when the Black Lives Matter
movement came and was building and was finally
being heard, their fight is our fight and
so I think that's important to remember.
That we share a lot of similarities, so
I think it's important that we look at the
real picture here is that we're all human
beings and that we all need to work together
and there needs to be equity and equality
happening.
The other thing that I was thinking about
was like, let's just host a whole bunch of

English: 
and building different ways of sharing
of sharing power sharing responsibility
like mutual aid and so on
i think that requires a certain level of
imagination and thinking outside of
certain constraints
yeah thank you um can you see do you
want to
rain
uh well i i just want to say two things
one
is uh you know when
um the black lives matter movement came
and
was building and and was finally being
heard
um their fight is our fight and so i
think that's important to remember
that uh we
share a lot of similarities so i think
it's important that we
we look at the real picture here is that
we're all human beings and that we all
need to work together and
there needs to be equity and equality
happening the other thing that i was
thinking about was like let's just host

English: 
dinners, just like from the exhibition.
I mean I think I would absolutely love being
there because I think when you have those
kinds of situations where you're bringing
strong powerful women together, you can get
so much accomplished.
And so many wonderful things can happen and
solutions come forward and not to… not to to always exclude the men out there but
you know it's just been my experience that
it's a really wonderful thing and a lot more
sort of things like that should need to happen.
Rachelle: So yes, thank you. Cheyenne do you
want to share your thoughts on this?
Cheyenne: Yeah, can you repeat the question
please?
You're in mute by the way.
Rachelle: There we go…

English: 
a whole bunch of dinners
just like from the exhibition i mean i
think i would
absolutely love being there because i
think when you have those kind of
situations where
you're bringing strong powerful women
together
you can get so much accomplished and so
many wonderful things can happen
and solutions come forward and not to
not to to always exclude
the men out there but um you know it's
it's just
been my experience that it's it's a
really wonderful thing and a lot more
sort of things like that should need to
happen so
yes thank you cheyenne do you want to
share your thoughts on this yeah um can
you repeat the question please
you're a mute by the way

English: 
there we go um
why does it matter that indigenous and
black women are together in this
exhibition
yeah um i think it matters for a lot of
the same reasons of why the exhibition
was created because
we have so many similarities albeit not
all the same and not
all the same struggles and the same ways
but a lot of the same overlappings and i
feel like
um we have a lot more similar than we
have apart
and i think that piece is very important
and i also think that
the collective imagining of a lot of the
ideas
could be from a lot of the same places
and i do think that when we're looking
at
civil rights right now and we're looking
at indigenous land sovereignty right now
we're looking at food apartheids in

English: 
Why does it matter that Indigenous and Black
women are together in this exhibition?
Cheyenne: Yeah I think it matters for a
lot of the same reasons of why the exhibition
was created because we have so many similarities
albeit not all the same.
And not all the same struggles and the same
ways but a lot of the same overlapping and
I feel like we have a lot more similar than
we have apart.
And I think that piece is very important,
and I also think that the collective imagining
of a lot of the
ideas could be from a lot of the same places.
And I do think that when we're looking at
civil rights right now, and we're looking
at indigenous land sovereignty right now,
we're looking at food apartheids in Black

English: 
neighborhoods right now a lot of it comes
back to not having sovereignty because of
a white supremacist colonial system.
That both of our communities’ face albeit
not the same ways but still face and I do
think what Katherine said about unity is beautiful
and I do think that it's very important I
guess right now and has always been
to be allies to each other because we are
in a very similar fight.
And in that fight, I feel like, I have a lot
of empathy toward the people who I am an ally
to and I feel like yeah I think that's why
I think that the land is what anchors us and
I think it's my last piece to say and I feel
like the land is what anchors us and a lot
of the justice will find is on the land and
through finding ourselves on the land.
Rachelle: Thank you for that Cheyenne. That's
a really great note actually, to turn to Q

English: 
black neighborhoods right now
a lot of it comes back to not having
sovereignty
because of a white supremacist colonial
system
that both of our communities face albeit
not the same ways but still
face and i do think what catherine said
about unity is beautiful and i do think
that
it's very important i guess right now
and as has always been
to be allies to each other uh because we
are in
in a very similar fight um and in that
fight i feel like
um i have a lot of empathy
toward um the people who i am an ally to
and i feel like
yeah i think that's why i think that um
the land is what anchors us and i think
it's my last piece to say and i feel
like the land is what anchors us
and a lot of the justice we'll find is
on the land and through finding
ourselves on the land
thank you for that cheyenne um that's a
really great note

English: 
actually to turn to q a we're almost out
of time
but we do have time for a question jason
do you have a question for us
yes excuse me um this question is
directed towards cozy and any
uh artists who choose to answer it's how
do you hope this exhibit
speaks to and shape the nature of
um food policy and food and the work of
food policy
analyst
that's a tough enough take me a little
bit of time to kind of wrap my head
around i'm still thinking about
something said like five minutes ago um
cheyenne i'm actually curious if you
would have something to say
because we've talked a little bit about
like food policy because you work at the
grassroots level essentially
but i'm wondering if you would have
anything to say about how you think this
exhibition should shape the way in which
we
approach the policy

English: 
& A, we’re almost out of time but we do
have time for a question.
Jason?
Do you have a question for us?
Jason: Yes, excuse me. This question is directed
towards Kosi and any artists who choose to
answer.
It's how do you hope this exhibit speaks to
and shape the nature of food policy and food
and the work of food policy analysts?
Kosi: That's tough enough to take me a
little bit of time to kind of wrap my head
around, I’m still thinking about something
said like five minutes ago.
Cheyenne I’m actually curious if you would
have something to say because we've talked
a little bit about like food policy because
you work at the grassroots level essentially
but I’m wondering if you would have anything
to say about how you think this exhibition
should shape the way in which we approach
the policy.

English: 
yeah um what i would say regarding
that is that a lot of the pieces
and say my piece so much not to
discredit me
but a lot of the pieces touched on
issues regarding food and land
to an extent of these issues are still
seen today
and i do think that policy should be
driven by those who are most affected
i do don't think that those who are
oppressors should be running anything at
all
referring our livelihood in our
community
and our safety and our wellness so i do
think that
art and this exhibit would have very
important place
in looking at how food policy should be
structured
and what things and what topics should
be talked about and should be really
considered
many of the pieces many of the pieces um
covered issues
that base black and indigenous people
and both um

English: 
Cheyenne: Yeah, what I would say regarding
that, is that a lot of the pieces can say
my piece so much not to discredit me, but
a lot of the pieces touched on issues regarding
food and land.
To an extent of these issues are still
seen today and I do think that policy should
be driven by those who are most affected.
I do… don't think that those who are oppressors
should be running anything at all regarding
our livelihood in our community and our safety
and our wellness.
So I do think that art and this exhibit would
have very important place, in looking at how
food policy should be structured, and what
things and what topics should be talked about
and should be really considered.
Many of the pieces, many of the pieces covered
issues that base Black and Indigenous people

English: 
and both and food so I do think that looking,
at the pieces digesting the pieces, marveling
at the pieces can really help understand what
issues that both of these communities’ face.
But I truly do think food policy would be
most benefited from asking these communities
and giving them their own sovereignty, to
make their own decisions about their own food
policy, but that's just what I think.
KC: Can I also?
Rachelle: Yeah go ahead, please.
KC: Oh! sorry I was just going to say that…
Fiona can you bring up the image that
I sent you just moving forward.
I know myself personally, I think it's important
to also understand the context of within the
artworks have been shown.
We're in a colonial structure, art is considered
art once it goes within the colonial space

English: 
and food so i do think that
looking at the pieces digesting the
pieces
marveling at the pieces can really help
understand what issues that both of
these communities face
but i truly do think food policy would
be most benefited from
asking these communities and giving them
their own sovereignty to make their own
decisions about their own food policy
but that's just what i think
can i also yeah go ahead please oh sorry
i
um i was just going to say that uh
fiona can you bring up the image that i
sent you
just moving forward i know myself
personally um
i think it's important to also
understand the context of within the
artworks
have been shown
we're in a colonial structure art is
considered art once it goes within
the colonial space the white box as it
were

English: 
the white box as it were and what I want people
to go forward thinking about and realizing
that art exists with on our bodies, within
our bodies, you'll see a lot of indigenous
designers…
A lot of jewelry makers they're carrying that
art on their bodies.
And in my case, I have an image here of a
couple of my vessels where I brought people
together and we cooked moose meat with loose
fat, harvested food, and cooked it on a fire
using one of my vessels which is the first
time I had ever done it.
Even though, I had been practicing this…
the creation of the vessels for a very long
time, I never had the opportunity to actually
get foods from the land and cook with it so
this was… this was thinking that this is
can still consider it an art piece but it's
no longer in the context of the white square.

English: 
and what i want people to go forward
thinking about and realizing that
art exists with on our bodies within our
bodies
you'll see a lot of indigenous designers
a lot of
jewelry makers they're carrying that art
on their bodies
and in my case i have an image here
of of a couple of my vessels where
i brought people together and we cooked
moose meat with loose fat
uh harvested food and cooked it on a
fire using one of my vessels which is
the first time i had ever done it
even though i had been practicing this
the creation of the vessels for a very
long time
i never had the opportunity to actually
get
foods from the land and cook with it so
this was
this was thinking that
this is can still consider it an art
piece but it's no longer
in the context of the white square and

English: 
we need to re-imagine how we look at art
and what we think of as art because in
uh from an indigenous point of view of
course this is art
of course this is an expression and it's
our way of communicating to
to past present and future
absolutely and i think part of the
exhibition context
does that because the documentation of
the dinner
and there's all these the networks reach
out of the gallery
um the living artwork and the
of joy answers is a great indicator that
this is a space that
that is a construction and needs to be
shattered
um and there's different ways of doing
that um
we have to wrap up
thank you all so much i'm going to let
fiona pop in here and
yeah may i add one very important thing
to the question

English: 
And we need to re-imagine how we look at art
and what we think of as art because in…
from an indigenous point of view of course
this is art, of course this is an expression,
and it's our way of communicating to past,
present, and future.
Rachelle: Absolutely and I think part of the
exhibition context does that because the documentation
of
the dinner and there's all these the networks
reach out of the gallery.
The living artwork in the of Cheyenne’s
is a great indicator that this is a space
that is a construction and that needs to be
shattered and there's different ways of doing
that.
We have to wrap up, thank you all so much
I’m going to let Fiona pop in here and yeah…

English: 
Katherine: May I add one very important thing
to the question that was asked about policy.
There's a book called An Army of Problem Solvers that I have completely read.
I’m also in the federal government but it's
about reconciliation and the solutions economy
and how policies are directly not helping
first nations and other indigenous communities
and it has direct answers to that very question,
it's an amazing book.
I really want, everyone should read it. I’ve
said it to my department like a million and
a half times. I do think that if you want
real concrete solutions to a policy regarding
land, indigenous and the future this book
is it.
Okay, I’m done, thank you so much.
Rachelle: This is great, we should just do
another panel on food policy and sovereignty

English: 
that was asked about policy um there's a
book
called an army of problem solvers
that i have completely read i'm also in
the federal government
um but it's about reconciliation and the
solutions economy and how policies are
directly not helping first nations
um and other indigenous communities
um and and it has direct answers
to that very question it's an amazing
book
i really want um everyone should read it
i've i've said it to my department
like a million and a half times um i
i do think that um if you
want real concrete solutions to
a policy uh regarding land um
indigenous and the future that this book
is it okay
i'm done thank you so much this is great
we should just do another panel on food

English: 
and activism and
Art.
Fiona: Yeah, okay. So, can everyone hear
me okay?
Panelists: Yeah.
Fiona: Okay, well I just wanted to thank everyone
so much.
Oh, my goodness! To our panelists for their
ideas and conversations this panel will be…
has been recorded and we'll upload it to our
YouTube.
So, I hope that it can have a real legacy
and it'll be… it'll be viewed lots because
what everyone said here is has been amazing.
It's been an honor to hear it and thank you
to everyone who joined us.
I really encourage you to sign up for our
e-list at cuag.ca or follow us on good
old Instagram and Facebook and yeah have a
have a great weekend everyone, thank you.
Bye, bye, bye.

English: 
policy and sovereignty and activism in
our
uh yeah okay so
um can everyone hear me okay yeah
yes okay well i just wanted to um thank
everyone so much
oh my goodness to our panelists um for
their ideas
and conversations um this uh panel will
be
has been recorded um and we'll we'll
upload it to our youtube so
um i hope that they can have a real
legacy and um
it'll be it'll be viewed lots because
what everyone said here is
has been amazing it's been an honor to
hear it
um and thank you to everyone who joined
us um i really encourage you to sign up
for our e-list
um at cuag.ca or follow us on
on good old instagram and facebook um
and yeah have a have a great weekend
everyone
thank you

English: 
bye bye
