(upbeat music)
- [Josiah] Science is
built on being elitist,
and not allowing people to access it,
which is super fucked up, you know.
- [Chase] This is Josiah Zayner.
He captured the world
attention after using the DNA
editing tool, CRISPR, one
of the most significant
scientific advances ever, on himself.
- [Josiah] This technology is so powerful.
There are literally
millions of people dying
that could use this technology,
and yet nobody is giving
these people access.
This is a syringe and I'm gonna show you
how easy it is to use this technology.
- His do it yourself
attitude towards CRISPR
sent the media and science
world into a tail spin.
He's even had a medical board
investigation aimed at him.
But he's not deterred by the controversy.
He says this is such a
powerful tool for good,
that everyone should have access to it.
So that's exactly what he's doing.
He's selling DIY CRISPR
kits that anyone can buy.
- Why is science so fucking complicated?
People having access to this technology,
allows them to do crazy and cool shit.
- [Chase] Josiah has a bold
vision for the future of CRISPR.
Some say his cavalier
attitude is dangerous.
He thinks maybe they're right.
But sometimes, risk is
necessary to push the field
further and faster.
(futuristic music)
(upbeat music)
- CRISPR it's so funny, 'cause
it's got this stupid acronym
that doesn't even make any sense.
I always forget it half the
time, and I'm just like fuck.
- It stands for clustered
regularly interspaced
short palindromic repeats.
The name's a mouthful.
But what it does is pretty remarkable.
It allows you to edit genomes
by cutting DNA strands
at precise points.
Then remove or replace a
sequence to correct mutations
in that DNA.
- I went to graduate school and did a PhD.
After that I got a job at
NASA, engineering organisms
for space travel and shit.
And I saw that there was
an extreme lack of people
working on this technology,
and wanted to change that.
- [Chase] So he quit is
job with NASA and started
experimenting in his garage.
It all sounds a little sketchy.
But Josiah's a trained
scientist, with a PhD
from the University of Chicago
in molecular biophysics.
But soon he went from garage scientist
to viral biohacker,
when he injected himself
with DNA that had been
modified using CRISPR.
- And I think that's the way it should be
with genetic engineering
and synthetic biology.
Why can't people use this technology,
without necessarily completely
knowing how it works?
- [Chase] This video sparked outrage.
- I can answer that one for you.
Because it could be dangerous
and someone could get hurt.
Also --
- Scientists freaked out.
They were concerned the
more this was normalized,
people changing their DNA
could have some unintended consequences,
like modifying their genetic code,
that could be passed down
from generation to generation.
- I wanted to do it to make a statement
for the right reasons.
And that's so hard to do,
and I didn't know what
I was doin' at the time.
I was just like me,
trying to make a statement
about how our whole medical
and genetic engineering
system is just fucked up.
I wanted people to realize
that this technology
is real and powerful and
it's available to them.
But we can't only put it
in the hands of the rich
and the powerful and the elite, right.
I think that's the scarier thing.
That's a bigger recipe for disaster.
I don't know what the future's gonna bring
with this technology,
but giving people access
to something that's that powerful,
I can't imagine that
amazing stuff won't happen.
- [Male] Also maybe some bad stuff too.
- Yeah maybe, bad stuff
happens with anything.
What are we willing to sacrifice here?
- [Chase] And in the end,
this is where the discussion
really lies, the traditional
science community
is methodical and careful.
Josiah and biohackers of the same ethos,
prioritize moving quickly
and accepting more risk.
They think that risk is worth
it for the potential upside.
- I understand the frustration
with science being slow.
But it really does take
time to do it right
and to do it safely and to make sure
we're not gonna harm people.
- [Craig] This is Megan Hochstrasser,
from the Innovative Genomics Institute.
- I think the risk of people
trying to do experiments
on themselves, or people
trying to recommend
that others do that, is that
it gives people false hope.
There's all kinds of
things that could go wrong
with self experimentation.
So I don't like the idea of
normalizing that kind of thing.
- [Chase] This is where we
sometimes lose the nuisance
in this discussion,
while a different opinion
about the virtues of self experimentation,
both Josiah and Megan agree,
that what Josiah's company
Odin sells to the public
now, mostly DIY CRISPR kits
for smaller scale biology experiments,
is a valuable exercise in citizen science.
Josiah did inject himself with CRISPR,
but that's not what he's
selling or even suggesting
that people do.
- I know people that
work in community labs,
who do this DIY
biology stuff, and I think
that can be really beneficial and powerful
to have communities of
people having the option
to try to do experiments
and learn about science
and get hands on experience.
- We sell this one kit that
basically you can go through,
learn how to do a CRISPR
experiment in microorganisms.
And then our other class
that I'm super pumped on
is our class on teaching people how to grow
and engineer human cells.
- [Chase] Zayner's goal is
to increase understanding
of the underlying technology
to drive broader access
in settings where it
could really help people.
- It's so imperative and
important that people
have access to this technology.
It can literally rewrite the genetic code
of the human beings.
In the whole history of humanity, no human
has had their genetic
code rewritten up until
maybe last year, when scientists in China
edited some embryos.
- [Chase] And that last
part, is what Megan
is more worried about.
She believes the danger is
less in people like Josiah
tinkering in their homes,
and more about misuse
is the traditional lab space.
In 2018, a Chinese scientist
created the world's
first genetically edited babies.
- No gene was changed, except the one
to prevent HIV infection.
The girls are safe, healthy
as any other babies.
- Dr. He said he used
CRISPR to alter the genes
with the goal of making the
babies resistant to HIV.
This is illegal in the
US and other countries,
to alter the genes of a human embryo.
But in China it's not.
However it still sparked
outrage from several
Chinese scientists about
the future ramifications.
These thorny ethical questions
are not lost on Josiah.
- I get it.
I'm not saying there
shouldn't be regulation
or anything like that.
It's like roads right.
You have stop signs and
stop lights, guard rails.
I think you can put in these stop lights
and stop signs and guard
rails for biotechnology,
so that people can use the technology,
and you just prevent the
extremely stupid stuff
from happening, right.
- [Chase] But his experiments
haven't just been given
a side eye from the ivory
tower, Josiah was actually
investigated last year by the
medical board of California
for practicing medicine without a license.
He was ultimately cleared of that charge.
What happens next is up in the air.
The hopeful part of this
however, is that while
the approaches of those
who care about this space
are different, the goal is the same.
- It's a difficult position to be in,
because you have a powerful technology,
and you want people to have access to it.
What do you do?
I don't think in any circumstance though,
the answer is don't give
people the knowledge.
Don't give people the technology.
- We have to make sure
that you're pushing things
in the right direction and
everyone's going to be able
to benefit equitably, and
it won't be a select few
and it'll really be an accessible benefit.
- There's this saying that
I have, be your own hope.
You always imagine doctors
will be there for you,
or scientists will be there for you,
or somebody will be there for you.
But a lot of times it's just not the case.
But even if you don't have money,
even if you don't have a fancy degree,
I think it's possible
that people can find ways
to help themselves, be
the hope for themselves
that nobody else could.
- Thanks for watching our
series about biohackers.
For more stories like this
one, go to our website
and subscribe to Freethink.
