>> Stewart: LAST MONTH, A TROVE
OF LEAKED DOCUMENTS REVEALED AN
EXCEPTIONAL INSIDE VIEW OF
CHINA'S MASS DETENTION OF ETHNIC
MINORITIES IN NORTHWEST CHINA
AND IT'S GROWING COMPLEX OF
INTERNMENT CAMPS.
HUNDREDS OF PAGES OF DOCUMENTS
OBTAINED BY "THE NEW YORK TIMES"
REVEALED INTERNAL SPEECHES FROM
PRESIDENT XI JINPING, AS WELL AS
DIRECTIVES FROM SENIOR OFFICIALS
ON HOW TO MANAGE INDOCTRINATION
CAMPS.
ADDITIONAL LEAKED DOCUMENTS WERE
LATER GIVEN TO OTHER JOURNALISTS
DETAILING HOW, IN THE PAST THREE
YEARS, UIGHURS AND OTHER MUSLIM
MINORITIES HAVE BEEN DETAINED
FOR IDEOLOGICAL TRANSFORMATION
AND WERE KEPT ISOLATED FROM THE
OUTSIDE WORLD.
NEWSHOUR WEEKEND'S HARI
SREENIVASAN RECENTLY SPOKE ABOUT
THOSE FINDINGS WITH AUSTIN
RAMZY, ONE OF THE REPORTERS FROM
"THE NEW YORK TIMES" WHO FIRST
BROKE THE STORY.
>> WE RECEIVED 400 PAGES OF
INTERNAL DOCUMENTS DESCRIBING
THE HISTORY OF HOW THESE CAMPS
CAME ABOUT.
IT SHOWED THAT, THAT XI JINPING,
UM, CHINESE PRESIDENT, HAD BEEN
LOOKING FOR SOME SORT OF ANSWER
TO THE PROBLEMS OF SEPARATISM
AND RELIGIOUS EXTREMISM IN
XINJIANG.
AND SO, FIVE YEARS AGO HE GAVE
SOME VERY TOUGH SPEECHES.
SHORTLY AFTER THAT, WE BEGAN TO
SEE SOME SMALL CAMPS AND THEN IN
2017 THE GROWTH OF THESE
INDOCTRINATION CAMPS REALLY
TAKES OFF.
IT REALLY CLASHES WITH THE
PUBLIC FACE THAT THE GOVERNMENT
IS TRYING TO PUT ON THESE
FACILITIES THAT THEY'RE, THEY'RE
SIMPLY BOARDING SCHOOLS FOR
PEOPLE WHO MAY HAVE COMMITTED
SOME SORT OF MINOR INFRACTION,
A WAY TO GIVE THEM SOME JOB
TRAINING AND HELP THEM MOVE ON
TO BETTER LIVES.
AND THESE INTERNAL DOCUMENTS, WE
SEE A LOT OF THE HARM THAT IS
DONE TO FAMILIES, CHILDREN WHO
HAVE THEIR PARENTS TAKEN AWAY.
>> Sreenivasan: YOU EVEN POINT
OUT THAT THERE ARE BASICALLY
SCRIPTS TO DEAL WITH THE
QUESTIONS THAT FAMILIES WILL
HAVE WHEN ONE OF THEIR FAMILY
MEMBERS IS MYSTERIOUSLY
VANISHED.
>> YES, THAT WAS PERHAPS THE
MOST REVEALING DOCUMENT IN ALL
OF THE THINGS THAT WE RECEIVED.
IT WAS SORT OF A SAMPLE Q&A FOR
OFFICIALS TO HANDLE STUDENTS WHO
WERE STUDYING IN OTHER PARTS OF
CHINA AND THEN RETURN HOME TO
LEARN THAT THEIR PARENTS OR
OTHER FAMILY MEMBERS WERE IN A
CAMP.
AND THE DOCUMENT IS FULL OF THIS
SORT OF PSEUDO MEDICAL LANGUAGE
DESCRIBING THE FAMILY MEMBER AS
SOMEONE WHO'S THINKING HAS BEEN
INFECTED, AND SO THEY NEEDED TO
BE PUT IN TREATMENT AND CURED.
>> Sreenivasan: WHAT ARE THEY
DOING IN THESE CAMPS?
HOW ARE THEY ACTUALLY
STRUCTURING THESE PLACES?
THE ONES THAT THEY SAID ARE JUST
FOR RE EDUCATION OR VOCATIONAL
EXPERIENCE.
WHAT ARE THESE NEW DOCUMENTS
REVEALING THAT TELL US THAT
THAT'S NOT REALLY THE CASE?
>> THESE DOCUMENTS INCLUDE ONE
INCREDIBLY INTERESTING NINE PAGE
DOCUMENT THAT'S A SET OF ORDERS
THAT WAS SENT OUT IN 2017 OF HOW
CAMP SHOULD BE RUN.
IT REALLY DESCRIBES THIS, KIND
OF, PRISON-LIKE SITUATION.
AND, IN FACT, SOME OF THE
LANGUAGE IS EXACTLY THE SAME AS
USED IN PRISONS IN TERMS OF
PREVENTING ESCAPES AND
PREVENTING INCIDENTS AND THINGS
LIKE THAT.
UM, VERY STRICT CONTROLS ON
PEOPLE ON THE INSIDE.
UM, ORDERS TO HAVE PEOPLE
MONITOR EACH OTHER OR
ESSENTIALLY SPY ON EACH OTHER.
AND SO, THESE DOCUMENTS, THIS
DOCUMENT IN PARTICULAR, IS
PROBABLY THE MOST DETAILED LOOK
AT HOW THE CAMPS ARE RUN.
>> Sreenivasan: SO, GIVE ME
AN IDEA.
I KNOW IT'S HARD TO PIN DOWN AN
EXACT NUMBER, BUT HOW MANY
PEOPLE ARE IN THESE CAMPS IN THE
WEST OF CHINA NOW?
>> WELL, SCHOLARS HAVE LOOKED AT
THIS, TAKING THAT SATELLITE DATA
AND CONSTRUCTION DATA AS WELL
TO TRY AND CREATE ESTIMATES AND
THEY BELIEVE THAT THERE ARE A
MILLION OR MORE.
>> Sreenivasan: A MILLION OR
MORE PEOPLE IN THE CAMPS NOW.
AND, YOU KNOW, GOING BACK TO
KIND OF THAT FIRST SET OF
DOCUMENTS, WHAT WAS ALSO
INTERESTING IS THAT YOU FOUND
THAT SOME OF THE PEOPLE WHO HAD
TO CARRY OUT THE POLICIES OF
TAKING PEOPLE AND PUTTING THEM
INTO CAMPS, IT WASN'T THAT EASY
FOR THEM.
THERE WAS KIND OF SOME INTERNAL
DISSENT.
>> THAT'S RIGHT.
I MEAN, ASIDE FROM THE LEAK OF
THE DOCUMENTS THEMSELVES, THERE
WERE SIGNS WITHIN THE DOCUMENTS
OF OFFICIALS WHO RESISTED.
IN ONE CASE THERE'S A DETAILED
DESCRIPTION, AND HE DOESN'T
REALLY SEEM TO BE DOING IT FOR
HIGH MINDED IDEALS.
HE JUST THINKS THAT IT'S NOT
GONNA WORK.
SO IT SEEMS LIKE INTERNALLY
THERE'S, THERE'S ALSO SENSE THAT
THIS PROGRAM IS NOT, IS NOT
WORKING.
>> Sreenivasan: ALL RIGHT.
AUSTIN RAMZY OF "THE NEW YORK
TIMES" JOINING US VIA SKYPE FROM
HONG KONG.
THANKS SO MUCH.
>> MY PLEASURE.
