Hello, everybody.
Welcome back to In-Cosmetics day two, and
I brought for you this morning to help wake
you up a very special guest.
This is Jay Bolus and he works with MBDC.
Is that correct?
That is correct.
Okay, so a lot of you guys have been asking
about sustainable products, right?
And in a previous In-Cosmetics, we had met
someone who said sustainability is really
a challenge to get.
So, what is sustainability and why is it a
challenge?
God, what a great question.
I mean, there are as many different definitions
of sustainability probably as there are people
in the sustainability world, right?
Right.
But generally what it means is creating products
and systems and things that actually are regenerative,
right?
So they help restore systems.
It's not just a maintenance thing.
It's not just a less bad thing.
Let's do less harm to the earth.
Yeah.
For me, sustainability is really about being
regenerative.
Okay.
And let me pause you right there, because
we hear sustainable a lot in the beauty industry,
right?
We always hear about it, but apparently it's
very difficult to achieve.
Right?
True sustainability is difficult to achieve.
Okay.
Absolutely.
There's a lot of what we call green-washing
going going on out there.
Right.
Have you guys heard of green-washing?
Green-washing, can you give us a definition
for that?
It's making claims that sound great from a
green perspective, but don't really have much
substance behind them.
So, our product is 80% natural.
Right?
That's great.
But what does that mean?
I mean, some of the most toxic stuff known
to man is natural.
It comes from nature.
Right.
Wow, okay.
Right?
So, just because something is 80% natural,
it doesn't necessarily mean it's a good thing.
Or it contains 100% recycled content.
Well, did you ever ask yourself, what is that
actual recycled content?
Is it recycled sludge?
Recycled PVC?
Not a great thing.
So, you have to dig a little deeper to some
of these claims and try to understand exactly
what's behind them.
Okay, so there's multiple components.
Let me pause really quickly.
I want to welcome everyone that's joined.
Thank you so much for showing up.
We have journalista Sylvia.
Oh, hi!
It's good to see you.
Hello.
I recognize that handle.
Skin perspective.
I wish you were here.
It's good to see you.
We have Sound farmer.
Hello.
How are you doing?
And we have Hannah Travel.
Okay.
So now, let's go into that a little more.
Let's dig a little bit deeper here, to begin
with.
Sure.
All right.
When we talk about sustainability, it's not
only ... Like we always hear about the packaging,
right?
Right.
Like, oh, the plastic packaging involved in
producing a product.
That's part of it, yes?
That's part of it, absolutely.
What are some of the other components that
we really need to factor in when we want a
sustainable product, then?
Okay, so I'm going to introduce a concept
called cradle to cradle.
Oh, okay.
And this is something that my company created
and started, and basically it's a design paradigm.
A design paradigm.
It's also a product certification program.
But really, the design paradigm is about designing
products that are safe for people in the environment.
Okay.
First and foremost.
And designing them in a way that they either
go back to nature safely when you're done,
or go back to industry to be recycled, reused,
re-manufactured.
Okay.
And here's a really important language thing.
We don't say, "end of life," because these
products are not alive.
Okay.
So it's all about use.
It's about use phases, end of use, and if
you say "end of use," it begs the question,
what is the next use?
Right.
I'm going to bring up a term that I really
liked.
You mentioned earlier, it was called benign
by design, right?
Yes.
So, designing with the environment in mind,
right?
Absolutely.
And instead of looking at just packaging,
you were also mentioning that you look at
toxic agents, right?
And byproducts.
So, is green chemistry a part of this process?
Green chemistry is a huge part of this.
People have probably heard about the circular
economy, right?
It's a phrase that's out there.
It's a buzzword that's out there.
Okay.
The problem is, there's no quality to that,
no qualification.
So it should be safe and circular, or safe
then circular.
Okay.
The most important thing is to find out if
there are any toxic substances in the product
or the package.
If so, let's eliminate those right off the
bat.
You cannot have a sustainable product that
has toxic substances in it.
Right.
Got it, got it.
And do you take it as far as even like looking
at the reagents that people are putting into
the environment.
Absolutely.
Oh, wow.
Okay.
I mean, we try to look at everything that's
in everything.
I like the sound of this.
That's deep, right?
No, I think that that is a step towards getting
closer to real sustainability.
Right.
And so that feels really meaningful to someone
like me, right?
To see that all components, from the chemicals
that the chemists are using, getting that
to a place where all of them are are good,
but also throughout the entire, what would
you say it, like production pipeline, if you
will.
Yes.
Absolutely.
And making a product.
So, I'm going to have you explain to everyone
what cradle to cradle is.
But before I do so, I want to say hi to everyone
again.
And I also want to tell you to get your questions
ready, because once he kind of goes through
this, and he's going to give us a couple ... I'm
hoping you'll be able to give us a couple
of examples, right?
Absolutely.
Okay.
He's going to give and share a couple of examples
which are really exciting cause, because he's
going to give us some really good beauty industry
examples.
But then, if you have questions, we're going
to address your questions.
So, we had Frances Turner join us.
Hi, Frances, it's good to see you.
And it looks like we have our first question.
What I'll do is I'll read it now, because
I don't want it to scroll up too far and not
be able to see it.
We'll address it later.
Okay.
So, it's from Skimp Perspective and it says,
"When it comes to packaging, some people think
plastic, bad; glass, good.
How is that considered?"
How is ... I'm sorry.
"How true is that considering the life cycle?"
Sorry, I need to wear my glasses.
Actually, that one's such a easy one to answer.
Can you just do it now?
Yeah, that's a great question.
And really, it's about next use, right?
Okay.
Next use.
So if you think about the-
So what do we do with the product when we're
done with it.
Yeah, I mean, plastics, yes, the carbon footprint
is lower to manufacturer than glass.
But nobody's reusing plastic these days, where
glass is really infinitely reusable, recyclable,
re-manufacturable, and recoverable.
So are you suggesting, I just want to make
sure I heard this correctly, so what is your
take on plastic, then?
Do you foresee, if everybody went with this
cradle to cradle, do you foresee the end of
plastics, or do you see us using certain plastics
all the time and just managing them better?
Absolutely.
Okay.
Plastic is ... There's a biological and technical
cycles.
Those are the two keys to cradle to cradle.
Plastic sits in the technical cycle, but we
have to manage it much better.
You need concentration and flow.
Those are the two keys to recycling anything.
And right now, we don't have that, because
we don't really have a good collection system
for our plastics.
If we did, we could be recycling and reusing
them almost indefinitely.
Okay.
So we're not recycling them correctly.
And tell me if I'm wrong on this, I've also
heard that there are certain chemicals in
plastic that, if we removed it, plastic would
have a better ability to fit into our recycling
program and be more benign by design.
Well, it's more about the different types
of plastics that are out there than actual
ingredients in plastics.
So I'm going to call out one in particular,
PVC.
Oh, okay, right.
It's number three on the seven types of plastic.
Right.
And it's a nightmare.
It's really not recyclable.
If it gets mixed up in another plastic stream,
it will ruin the recyclability of that plastic.
I see.
So we really need to get out of PVC in packaging
and in bottles.
Got it.
Okay.
So, let's talk now about your solution to
what we currently have, which is an unsustainable,
right?
Unsustainable products essentially [inaudible
00:07:41].
Yeah, definitely.
Okay.
So what's your system with them?
From a cradle to cradle perspective, there's
five pillars, five key points, and it starts
with safe and healthy.
Let's pick the right ingredients from the
beginning.
And then it's about cyclability or circular
economy.
Let's make sure for the products that they
are safely biodegradable and can go back to
nature safely.
No microbeads, no microplastics, no fleece,
none of that stuff.
No microfibers.
Okay.
And then it's about the production.
How are we making these things?
Let's maximize our use of renewable, clean
energy.
This isn't an energy efficiency thing.
This is about maximizing renewable energy.
Yes, energy efficiency is good.
But you want to make the switch to clean,
renewable energy and water.
What are we doing about water?
You know, that's a fundamental human right,
access to clean water.
And yet 3 billion people on this planet don't
have it.
So, cosmetic industry is a high user of water.
So what is the quality of the output of that
water?
Is it coming out cleaner than when it goes
in?
That should be our goal from a pretty cradle
to cradle perspective.
Right?
And then there's the social fairness aspect
of it.
I mean, what are we doing as consumers and
as manufacturers to make sure that we're operating
in a socially just and fair way?
So, if people want to find cradle to cradle,
is it a label?
It's a certification.
A certification.
Absolutely.
Okay.
So you could feasibly find this on a shampoo
bottle or something like that.
Yes.
Okay, got it.
And what I'll do is, because we don't have
an image in front of us right now, I'll show
you later the cradle to cradle certification
so that you can find it, but you can reasonably
go through and find it in stores.
What Jay is going to do now is he's going
to share maybe one or two brands that you're
working with in beauty, and talk about how
you've helped influence their product pipeline
so that we can get a sustainable product.
Okay.
But before you do, I want to say hi to everyone
real quick.
We have X skincare.
Hi.
It's good to see you.
And [Ferintash 00:09:34] Farms.
Hello, welcome back.
Let's see.
You quickly say, "What?
Beauty saves the planet.
Good to know."
Well, I think that this is something that's
getting started, right?
You have, how many beauty products quickly
have cradle to cradle certification?
At this point, there's probably just a couple
of dozen.
Just getting started, yeah.
Okay.
A couple of dozen.
So it's really tiny.
So you guys are hearing about this early,
and so maybe if this is something that you're
interested in, you can actually start looking
for products.
You can talk to suppliers or stores that you
go to and say, "Hey, I'm really looking to
products with this."
Absolutely.
Who knows, maybe the people that create the
chains, right?
Exactly.
I think that's really cool.
Ask the question, right?
Totally.
Start saying, "Hey, what's in your stuff?
What's your program?
What are you doing around sustainability?"
Exactly right.
Hello, Dr. Vasquez.
It is good to see you.
Thank you so much for joining.
So, Jay is going to take us through two case
studies of people that are using cradle to
cradle.
And I would actually like to hear a little
bit too about what companies are commonly
doing, and how you're changing that game.
Sure.
Okay.
So, I'm going to talk about L'Oreal first,
because they were an early adopter of cradle
to cradle.
They decided that they were going to launch
a new line of salon products by Biolage Raw,
which people may be familiar with, and they
wanted to design it cradle to cradle from
the beginning.
So, they eliminated all the toxic substances.
They went with as many renewable, rapidly
renewable, bio-based sources as they could.
They looked at end of use and are all of these
ingredients biodegradable?
Will they return to nature safely?
Right.
They manufactured in a facility using renewable
power, clean water, and tried to do it in
a socially fair way.
And what happened is they ended up with a
product that was platinum.
That's the highest level you can achieve for
cradle to cradle material health.
What product is that [crosstalk 00:11:21]?
It's Biolage Raw.
Biolage Raw.
Okay.
And so, the reaction in the consumer space
was kind of interesting, because it's a salon
product, it's a high end product, high margins,
right?
And people were like, big deal, you can do
it on this product because it's easy and there's
high margins and you can afford to do it right
from the beginning.
I see.
So L'Oreal said, "No, no, no, we're going
to do Garnier."
So they did skin actives and Garnier is at
the complete opposite end of the spectrum,
right?
Yeah.
It is a mass-market product.
It is, yes.
It's available in Walmart and number of places.
It went through the exact same process, though
they weren't as successful in eliminating
all of the bad stuff as they were with the
Biolage Raw.
Right.
Because they didn't do it from the beginning.
It was kind of a retrofit.
They said, "These are products that are already
in existence, so let's go after the fact and
try to redesign them."
Right.
Much more challenging than doing it at the
beginning.
Oh, okay.
But they were still able to achieve the silver
level of certification, which for cradle to
cradle is pretty impressive.
Right.
And that's really great to hear.
It's interesting that there was this perception
out there that only big companies can do it,
but it seems like they were able actually
to bring it to a mass brand.
Right?
Right.
And you even have a smaller company, a more
niche brand that's doing it.
We do, we do.
And just before we get to that, what I wanted
to say about my audience, because you haven't
met them yet.
I haven't met them.
So thanks for coming up today and meeting
my friends online.
Hi!
Hi everyone, right?
But by audience, I'm speaking about you guys.
Feel free to jump in if I've mischaracterized
you, but nobody here is afraid of chemicals
per se, right?
There is no chemophobia here.
Excellent.
Everybody's very like familiar about chemicals.
And I think what I like about your approach
is that it's very nuanced, right?
You're not saying, oh, all plastics are bad.
You're saying, we really need to examine this
and look at what plastics can we make benign,
right?
What plastics can we make sustainable for
the environment?
And also, I like that there's not a lot of
resistance to sustainability though.
You know what I'm saying?
Even me being a huge fan of chemistry, I believe
that that the future is in sustainability.
So, there's a bit of a balance and it's not
about creating fear, it's about being real
about the problem.
You know what, that is a such an important
point.
And there are no universally-
Well, you're welcome.
You're right.
I mean, there are no universally good or bad
chemicals.
It's all about context.
Exactly.
And so, what frustrates me a lot of times
is you'll see retailers, and Walmart does
this and Target and Whole Foods, they make
these restricted substance lists and it's
like universally, oh, no parabens.
Well, not all parabens are bad, right?
It depends.
No [phthalates 00:13:59].
Again, not all phthalates are bad.
So why are we banning all of these things
when a lot of this is just sort of fear-based,
and nobody's really understanding what's going
on.
Right.
So hopefully, this is the start of a revolution
that involves you guys and hopefully us too.
Right.
Hopefully you'll include us in it.
But yeah, to just to really talk about some
of the issues in beauty, because once we start
talking about it, we can really address it.
So, I'm going to have you quickly go through
this second brand, and if you guys miss this
and you want to continue the conversation,
we're going to redo this again right now on
Facebook.
So you can follow me on Facebook and Jay will
kind of go through this again, and we'll talk
about some different aspects of this.
So what's the other brand real fast?
Yes, Beauty Kitchen, an indie brand from Scotland.
Very exciting.
They have taken the cradle to cradle philosophy
like to the nth degree.
Right.
So, they've got packaging that is to cradle
to cradle certified in addition to the product,
but they've got a return,, refill, repeat
strategy where their packaging is either glass
or aluminum, and it's all returnable, and
they clean it with a proprietary technology
that they developed.
So they clean it back to cosmetic standards,
refill it, and put it back out there.
Oh, that's wonderful.
Okay.
And you actually have a third brand we were
talking about earlier, but you know what,
I'm going to leave a cliffhanger there.
Come over to Facebook, because we're going
to do this again.
I don't want to run out of time.
Thank you so much.
Let's address some of your questions really
quick before we leave.
I saw Dr. Vasquez, MD.
Hey, thank you for staying up late.
I remember you looking for the time, and it's
late on her end, and she stayed up just to
watch this.
Thank you so much for doing that.
We have Gabby China123.
Hi Gabby.
It's good to see you on day two.
Who else do we have here?
Hi, Hygienic Elements [inaudible 00:15:42],
come on by.
I know you're here in the area.
Please say hello.
In fact, maybe we'll even show up on camera.
And we have, yeah, and Dr. Vasquez was saying,
"Parabens fear is really out of control."
Yes.
Agreed.
So, that's something that Jay is speaking
to, and this is why I wanted to bring him
on camera, because I think it really is about
focusing on real solutions.
Gabby China says, "What's this guy's name?"
His name is Jay Bolus.
Thank you.
And who do you work for again?
I work for MBDC.
I'm a biochemist by training, have been doing
this work for 22 plus years.
Okay, and how do they find you if they want
to kind of follow your talks, get in touch
with you, ask questions, where do they follow
you?
Mbdc.com is our website and you can get my
stuff there.
Shoot me an email, jay@mbdc.com.
Wow, talk about that for open access.
Nice.
I'd love to chat.
I can give you Twitter and Instagram and all
of those handles as part of my email signature.
So-
Sounds good.
What I'll try to do is a post later on today,
and I'll put all his information so that you
guys can reach out.
We're going to end it here, because we've
got one more to do and time is tight, but
feel free to jump over on Facebook, or just
ask me questions and I'll point you in the
right direction.
Okay, I'll talk to you guys later.
Bye.
Thank you so much for your time.
Bye-bye.
Thank you for having me.
All right.
Bye, bye, bye.
