AMY GOODMAN: Here on Democracy Now!, Democracynow.org,
The War and Peace Report.
I’m Amy Goodman, as we return to our conversation
with the world-renowned political dissident,
professor, linguist Noam Chomsky.
NOAM CHOMSKY: We can’t overemphasize the
fact that we’re in a unique moment of human
history.
In fact, we have been, ever since 1945.
In 1945, human history changed dramatically.
In August 1945, humans demonstrated that their
vaunted intelligence had created a means to
destroy life on Earth.
Didn’t quite have it yet at that point,
but it was obvious that it was going to extend
and expand, as it in fact did.
A couple of years later, 1947, The Bulletin
of the Atomic Scientists established its famous
Doomsday Clock.
How far are we from midnight, terminal disaster?
It was set at seven minutes to midnight.
It once reached two minutes to midnight, 1953,
when the U.S. and then the Soviet Union detonated
thermonuclear weapons, which do have the capacity
to essentially destroy life.
Then it has oscillated variously.
It’s now back at two minutes to midnight—with
an addition.
It was not known in 1945 that we were not
only entering the nuclear age, but entering
a new geological epoch, what geologists call
the Anthropocene, an epoch in which human
activity is having severe and deleterious
effects on the environment in which human
and other life can survive.
We also entered into what’s now called the
sixth extinction, a rapid extinction of species,
which is comparable to the fifth extinction
65 million years ago when an asteroid, huge
asteroid, hit the Earth, we know.
The World Geological Society finally settled
on the end of World War II as the onset of
the Anthropocene—sharp escalation and destruction
of the environment, not only global warming,
carbon dioxide, other greenhouse gases, but
also such things as plastics in the ocean,
which are predicted to be greater than the
weight of fish in the ocean not far in the
future.
So we’re destroying the environment for
organized human life.
We’re threatening a terminal disaster with
regular nuclear confrontations.
Anybody who has looked at the record, which
is shocking, would have to conclude that it’s
a miracle that we’ve survived this long.
Humans beings, right now, this generation,
for the first time in history, have to ask,
“Will human life survive?”
And not in the far future will organized societies—those
are the issues we should be concerned with.
Everything else pales in significance in comparison
with this.
And going back to NATO, well, what is it doing?
It expanded to the Russian border.
If you take a look at Trump’s policies from
a geostrategic point of view, they’re totally
incoherent.
I mean, on the one hand, he’s making nice
to Vladimir Putin.
On the other hand, he’s escalating the threats
against Russia, and hence to ourselves, as
well.
Arms the Ukraine, serious threat to Russia.
Increasing forces at the Russian border.
The Russians are doing the same on the other
side.
Military maneuvers.
The new nuclear program which he has instituted,
which is a severe threat to Russia, and indeed
the world.
Already under Obama, the modernization programs
had reached the level where they were posing
a literal first-strike threat to Russia.
Important work on that has appeared in the
scientific journals, Bulletin of the Atomic
Scientists.
Trump is escalating it, even more modernization
of extremely dangerous forces, also significantly
lowering the threshold for nuclear war.
Also new weapons, which are supposedly tactical
nuclear weapons, which, as any nuclear strategist
can tell you, are just incentives for escalation
to final disaster.
These are enormous threats against Russia,
ourselves as well, combined with being polite
to Putin at a press conference.
Geostrategically, this makes no sense.
It all makes perfect sense on a different
assumption.
AMY GOODMAN: Trump has gone after NATO allies
from Britain to Germany, and before that,
Macron in France as well as Justin Trudeau
in Canada.
But he also, while questioning NATO, says
he’s questioning—because he simply wants
them to spend more money—and actually named
the weapons manufacturers in the United States—that
he wants them to spend more money on—saying
they should spend four percent of their budgets
on weapons.
If you could comment on this?
NOAM CHOMSKY: In other words, if you’re
looking for a serious strategy behind this,
you’re looking in the wrong place.
That’s not what lies behind it.
None of this makes sense from a strategic
point of view.
None.
It’s all contradictory, incoherent and so
on.
That should tell us something: Let’s look
somewhere else.
And it all makes perfect sense on the assumption
that he is driven by one overwhelming concern:
himself.
All of this makes sense for a megalomaniac
who wants to make sure that he has power,
he has wealth, has to appeal to a number of
constituencies to make sure he’s supported.
One constituency is the overwhelmingly hawkish
establishment—you know, expand NATO, build
up the military system, modernize nuclear
weapons and so on.
OK, he’s got them in his pocket.
The crucial constituency is—and his actual
one—are the corporate sector and the super-rich.
And he’s just lavishing gifts on them.
While he’s prancing in front of the media,
and the media are helping him out by focusing
on him, his minions in Congress are carrying
out sheer robbery.
I mean, it’s unbelievable, if you take a
look at it point by point.
I’ve mentioned a couple of examples before.
Then he has to maintain a voting base; otherwise,
he’s out.
And he does that by posturing.
“I’m going to—I’m going to confront
NATO, make them pay more, so they won’t
be robbing us anymore.”
Great.
“I’m going to confront China.
Stop stealing our intellectual property.”
Great.
“I’m going to put tariffs on everybody.
I’m defending you guys, workers’ rights.”
Point by point, it all falls into place.
And I think that’s pretty much what’s
going on.
This searching for some coherent geostrategic
strategy behind this is almost hopeless.
There are a few things, of course.
The effort to construct an alliance of the
most reactionary Middle Eastern states against
Iran—Saudi Arabia, Israel, United Arab Emirates,
Egypt under the dictatorship—that’s a
crazy, but coherent, strategy.
I should say that one corollary to the “me
first” doctrine, which has been observed
over and over, is that if Obama did something,
I’ve got to do the opposite, no matter what
it is.
Doesn’t matter what the consequences are.
Otherwise, I’m not, you know, a transformative
president, a significant president.
