no one reads terms of conditions like or
disclaimers at all you can't expect a
user who needs a service in 15 minutes
from now
Fredman account that he will read 30,000
50,000 words in that particular moment
you actually need to understand how
users behave and and track that behavior
Prime Minister has announced the most
drastic at this point it's clear that
we're gonna have a recession is more
severe than the global financial crisis
we are looking at other available
options more and more people are buying
and holding Bitcoin Bitcoin Bitcoin
let's take a look at Bitcoin some call
this digital gold
everybody should problem 1 percent of
their assets in Bitcoin
everything.. Dear crypto community
blockchain buddies across the globe,
Welcome back to Cryptonites, the no BS
blockchain channel built with the
community and for the community and we
are here at the crypto compare digital
asset summit 2020 with tons of exciting
guests and ready to entertain you with
timeless interviews and I'm very very
happy today to say that we have Stani
Kulechov founder of Aave one of the
exciting projects in DeFi, Stani I'm
glad to have you here they're having me
and going to tell something no BS about
defi yeah yeah please keep a no BS that
would be absolutely amazing but first
off tiny which is really interesting is
you kicked off an engineering software
development and you did a little bit of
illegal law study yes what really made
you passionate about this space and
think GFI is for me yeah I think like
funny part like when we started back in
a few years ago there wasn't like
devious as a kind of like as a boss
board or as a space we just were
basically using smart contracts to
develop different kinds of financial
products and protocols and our previous
product which was eat land was basically
the first landing protocol in theory and
we just basically we were passionate
about finance and basically wanted to
create something very interesting like
trustless transparent way to let other
people to interact and that's how kind
of got us into the space and by the time
the space developer bid we got stable
coins liquidity pools and and then
basically voila you had defy you were a
real visionary because landing you were
ahead of the curve yeah
now in 2020 lending is one of the
biggest topics across the crypto space
why did you think lending had so much
potential back in those days what was
your vision at the time the interesting
part is like now like deal in space as
you said it's very interesting there's
like very interesting learning protocols
and and like I really admire where we
are at this point
as a whole like a community in defy
especially now in theory of there's the
most liquidity at the moment what's
interesting like back in
we started kind of like before the
stable points where and back then
lending was very difficult because you
weren't boring like a stable asset so
you had to do different kinds of hedging
and that wasn't very liquid and once the
stable coins came out and basically
especially like died and now USDT into
the erc-20 format and USD see as well
from coinbase what it allowed to
basically do is that defined outgrowth
where it is because instead of holding
US dollars in your account or an other
fiat currency you get like much better
yield yields from the defi space and
that's what attracts people in in the
first place the yields and of course the
technology serves to make like trustus
transactions is even more fascinating
that's really cool and being that
transition for people who want to earn
interest do you think that that is one
of the best stepping stones to mass
adoption as of today I think kind of
like it's one of the kind of maybe like
not the best but I would say it's the
easiest way when people say like basic
you can air better yields at DEFI and
momentarily
especially when the protocols mature as
it mature and we I can so message that
you are actually borrowing and lending
out some stable coins the heels might
not be in the future so so high but
that's kind of like a one way to get
more people interested and and saying
like a bit more curious like how is this
happening why is this happening and that
brings people into the space but
definitely once that will pass that
stage and I think that people can see
like how you can build different kinds
of things in in in the defi ecosystem
for example you can utilize our flash
loans to to for example close your make
it OCAP and refinance your loan to other
learning protocol uses small like
compressibility trick and when you have
tons of different kinds of tools like
this that will basically fascinate
people because the money moves very
programmatically and that has never
happened before so freely I would love
to ask you more about the flash loans
but you gave me an idea of a question as
of today if I put my money in a savings
account in any bank usually you get less
than 1% of  earnings Defi has
some programs that go all the way up to
15
percent now is this realistic or is
there any risk behind it, you have any
advice for those platforms offering
crazy like interest? Exactly like your
thing like what I love about the talk
most is their risk because like this
different defi protocols and and
especially when you go multiple layers
in the compatibility you have like kind
of like piles of risk and what is
interesting like in one way because they
the network effect in in the Central and
Finance is pretty much the liquidity and
to get liquidity you need to hack that
liquidity so we I call it basically
yield hacking so when when different
protocols or or different kinds of
algorithms are doing this yield hacking
they're either taking more risk or are
using techniques that take for example
market risk and and basically providing
more yield a definite thing like the
very base layer protocols in terms of
lending the yields might go down at some
point unless you introduce a bit of our
riskier assets and buy riskier you don't
need to go all the way down to the risk
rabbit hole but basically slightly more
risk and I just think like yield hacking
is part of the space and and and and we
will see like a lot of interesting yield
opportunities but also I think the
programmatic part in the fight now is
that we don't disclose disclose the risk
that we have very well for the end user
and I think that's problematic now
that's really interesting so you believe
like the 15 or 12 percent is kind of
like yield hacking but it'll definitely
scale back up yeah as we don't worry
because there will be more competition
on the same particle level for example
we compete with different lending
protocols and kind of not just compete
but we complement each other so we might
have a protocol on top of us that
actually uses our protocol and basically
other learning protocols which is pretty
cool
in terms of compressibility and the
capital allocation will move pretty
quickly so let's say if we have even T
percent better yields than other
learning protocols the capital will move
quickly algorithmically in the future to
our protocol and if some other protocol
will have the same it moves there so we
we definitely are not there yet in terms
of algorithmic
capital allocation but we are definitely
going towards that
kind of like a path that's very exciting
so you're saying that there's a lack a
little bit of transparency on how the
funds or the risk is being managed yeah
like how do some of these lending
platforms actually make money through
this so I thought you based on the
transparency thing I think like the
coolest part on ethereum and the it's
very specific like defi ecosystem is
that everything is like a little bowl by
anyone so all their interest rates
transactions are seen in the public
auction ledger and that's very cool at
some point there will be some privacy as
well introduced but like I think at this
point it's it's important for everyone
to see what's happening you know but in
terms of like risks like you could see
everything and you understand like how
things are work you see the code how the
code executes but not many people
understand code that's the thing like
it's the technical people and retail
people or institutions who are
depositing they might not have the the
technical capabilities so assessing the
code so they need to trust someone and
that someone might be smart contract
auditors or they appeal community and in
terms of like how the meditation works
in V file that is like very cryptic
thing because like we've seen protocols
that are not implementing any
monetization we have communities that
think you should not monetize because
you're basically creating a system where
you have less friction and you're not
running the bank infrastructure so you
should monetize as least as possible and
I think that's yes because like you
should monetize as much as you're
providing value to your end users the
more you provide value the more you can
actually monetize and that's part of the
yield hacking if you can hack more yield
to your your end users the more you can
actually monetize and I think that's the
way to do it absolutely and if you want
to scale your technology and or even
more futures there has to be
monetization somewhere right exactly
because like the thing that people
forget is that all these protocols
they're basically built by someone and
in the future there might not be a
development into this building but I
actually communicate and for example at
all but we're we're basically small team
building things we have a we focus a lot
of on security we have now basically
half a million budget into smart
contract audits and formal verifications
and whatnot and the important part is
realize that there is so much that goes
into making a cute and secure protocol
that basically it's matusa stained and
if you provide that value added to your
end-user it's very fine to monetize but
of course the interesting part is when
you have a governance open source
protocol you are actually able to spread
that kind of like monetization to the
whole community if you have for example
some sort of economics involved in
governance so that's pretty cool thing
that's really cool and you know the
obviously lending and earning interest
and the small savings account thing is
something that you saw way ahead of this
defy movement and it's definitely
probably besides stable coins or they're
the most discussed topics in defy right
yeah yeah definitely
I mean stable coins are very very
awesome thing like one of the things I
for example I love about like dies it's
it's basically decentralized stable coin
and it's kind of like a bit of
algorithmic based and and basically it
really provides the ability to use a
stable value in the defi ecosystem then
we have stable coins for example like
USDT and basically USDC which are
basically using tokenization in a way to
provide more liquidity into the defi
space which is totally fine because like
the more liquidity you have the more
actually like compressibility and more
traction you will actually happen within
the blocks in blockchain ecosystem
you're not one of those guys was
thinking only decentralized versus
centralized or traditional finance
versus crypto finance you you're not one
of the guys who chooses only one side
you'd like to see yeah well the thing is
like in terms of like a protocol what we
were building our parties is to decently
as as much as possible so basically
because we have an open source protocol
that basically means that we want to
give the governance of the protocol
completely to the community which means
that basically with a with the token you
can actually govern the protocol what
kind of assets could be added in the
future
what kind of lending parameters there
will be and and and maybe some sort of
like a insurance like features and
that's like that's basically our path
but if you're building defi products
it doesn't basically mean that you will
have you will need the similar amount of
decentralization it really depends on
what layer you're operating and who is
basically your end user for us it's
important they're there they kind of
like
journey and being higher lever of the defi
spectrum because basically we are
infrastructure provider and when we're
building something very important those
things usually tend to be open sewers
when the done well Linux for example
yeah that makes a lot of sense so the
layer the protocol layer needs to be
decentralized and what goes on top
doesn't really yeah yeah that makes a
lot of sense I have a quick question
because you're just talking about
decentralization and I saw your hands
doing this yes so do you see the
centralization more as different levels
whether than yes or no exactly so
there's two things first it's like
decentralization is a spectrum so you it
depends on what you're building defines
like how much you need decentralization
and second thing is that
decentralization is a journey so you
could be very decentralized from the day
one but then if you have some sort of
like a box or you want to improve your
protocol for to optimize it for your
end-users it's very difficult to do if
basically you can't make quick changes
and that's why basically the
decentralization it's not just a binary
thing on enough but also it's a journey
so to get where you need to be it takes
a bit of time and it takes like
different kinds of steps but the the
very important part is that you have
clear plan what you're going to do and
how decent choice you're going to be
because that's the important thing that
the community values that's really good
so you're always transparent no matter
what level of decentralization and make
sure that they know where you're going
exactly the transparency is the key here
is a key yeah fantastic
so obviously defi is a massive
phenomenon and and obvious been one of
you know the the flag holders of this
movement but as you know in every
movement they're always people who try
to take advantage you know maybe the
marketing or the cool you know factor
being a part of the defy yeah like what
are what are some of the you obviously
you said landing was great stable coins
are awesome we haven't talked about the
central exchanges yet but there are also
other projects trying to take advantage
of this branding do you see some use
cases that do not necessarily need defi
as of today oh definitely I think like I
used to call this discount like terminal
in terms of terminology like defines
marketing so basically if you plug in
kind of like your system into Defi is
it doesn't mean that your Defi but you
dink you think
because you're basically providing
liquidity into the defy space and you're
providing experiences and you don't need
to be completely decentralized but for
example gateways and centralized
exchange are a good example where you
might have more robustness in trading
and basically on board more people into
the crypto space as a that's a kind of
like a bigger concept and then you can
plug into you like into the defi for
example when you want to get people
yields for example if you're an exchange
you can plug into Aave and get those
yields into your end users basically and
minimize their trading fees and and what
costs and whatnot and that's like the
very interesting part
so like the device one ecosystem there's
bigger ecosystems there's basically the
crypto ecosystem there's the FinTech
ecosystem
finance ecosystem and so forth so
there's different kind of players and
and basically it really depends on what
you're operating in mmm that's really
really well put and talking about
gateways when it comes to the decks
versus the centralized system what are
the pros and cons or how do you see it
as of today, Kyber network has been
doing really well
oh yeah uni swap has been getting crazy
traction as well well is this really
growing is this where we're going is
that the future for you yeah that's a
great thing like I expect it I've been
following basic at the deck seen already
like the first decks I got excited was
EtherDelta I didn't think it was
actually, the very first text when it
started I think like a couple of weeks
ago after the launch I tried to sell my
I used to have like a tokens of first
but tokens and I tried to put a sell
order or a buy order it took like one
week that to get filled
so the liquidity wasn't there and it
took a bit time of the liquidity to form
up and what is interesting now in the
the deck scene is that we don't have
this order matching only but we have
like the pool modeling the same with
what happened with lending for example
and that provides more liquidity and now
that the liquidity is available and
pooled ready you can basically use it in
different compressibility functions and
that's why the Dex's are growing because
there are hundreds of developers using
our using Kyber using Uniswap and
and just building things that are
actually and of course a bunch of other
codified protocols and products and
building these kind of things and all
that
kind of like users of liquidity will
just grow the the exes and liquidity
pools like you News Falcon Kyber and
I'm personally like super excited to see
that grow because like I'm firm believe
in DEx's and it's such a simple
transactions so that like if you go to
now to like finance which which is very
good centralized exchange in terms of
like user experience and you go unit
swap and try different like which is
easier to use like many times you hear
that unit swap is easier and that's a
basically tax liquidity poll so like we
don't anymore have this kind of like
user experience issue in in defi space I
mean obvious very easy to use to be
honest you know obviously the kyber is
easy and and the things that people are
building on top is pretty easy to use I
think it's now just a time that actually
people realize that how cool the space
is how much things are evolving and and
it just will grow exponentially and I'm
super excited about this that's
fascinating and a lot of people say and
obviously the ERC 20 or their Theory MD
centralized exchanges are the ones that
are basically doing really well and
other ones are still being developed and
improving of course day by day in terms
of of that outlook and in terms of
atomic swaps
so if I want to be able to send you in a
theory of token and you want to send
back and yes or another blog yeah okay
realistically how far are we in terms of
being able to actually do that type of
cross chain like in terms of like when
how far I would say like in Bali invoice
and and and and scalability wise I think
like in six months we'll be doing six to
twelve months we're doing like very
substantial volume maybe not six months
from now but I would say substantial
volume is from eight to twelve twelve
months from now because like the things
that are now being built between the
bridges basically getting more liquidity
into each area and interacting with
other things and and the cool stuff that
is being billed for example polka polka
dot and so forth I think like we're
going to see a very very big leapfrog
after six months from now and that will
be like very nice to see like what are
they going from one blockchain to
another because to be honest like in one
way I may like very ethereal maximalism
maximalist but I'm also kind of like I
understand that liquidity lives where it
it's place and and then I'm seeing that
actually this liquidity could be used in
other blockchains as well and depending
on what kind of security it consensus
algorithms they have and that liquid it
could be another block chains could be
using in theory oh so it's all about
liquid at the end of the day Wow six to
12 months so that's really soon yeah
it's coming really soon that's exciting
so lot of people are a little bit
concerned about the fact that you know
cross-chain it will be slower and and
the fees on both sides man yup and but
it's hopefully in six two months to one
year
I think so I think like let's say for
Mattel 12 months from now it's easy to
swap what is interesting to see like
being like defi products built on
basically cross blockchain so will be
interesting to see when you can actually
create a stable point by collateralizing
asset or let's say ethereum, cosmos
polka dot and and so forth and just kind
of like him in one place and transfer
that liquidity so I mean it's
fascinating it's being built and I'm
very eager to see how things are going
to have oh that's so awesome and you
just mentioned they were in theory a
maximalist I would love to hear more
like what are some things you know last
year people were really negative about
ethereum there's a lotta negativity
when you know obviously if you're into
point I was postponed post postponed but
now all of a sudden you GFI and all the
the it's hearing being staked on through
the defy platforms the sentiment has
suddenly revived right yeah definitely
you know for me like the postponing of a
typo no that's that's not like I will a
person wasn't that concerned at all
because I I firmly believe in in a way
that like if you do this kind of pick
updates you basically need you have very
diligent procedure and you should not
deploy anything unless you're completely
confident because like the thing with
the ethereum
is or or any other book chain that has a
lot of assets there is that there used
substantially and for example the defi
space now in theory or miss I cry
roughly 1 billion depending on the
valuation of the assets and what that
actually says is that the the these
portions are used in very very
financial transactions whether we like
it or not or whether we keep call this
blockchain protocols still kind of like
a experimentations binary ships
you can't stop liquidity if you come
there and that's why it's important to
talk about risk talk about like slow
developing process talk about security
because like even if you basically name
it as a experimental project called AFI
whole top chain ecosystem or alpha or
whatever I mean if there is liquidity
it's serious and then the risk are
serious as well and the consequences if
things go wrong it's good that you're
always talking about risk as well but
yeah a lot of these people that's kind
of like what they're measuring you know
and whether they should get in or not
right they're like how much should I put
in is this risky I'm not too familiar
and it's scary right for some people
yeah I think the in terms of risk we're
so early so it kind of like we are still
in a stage that people are excited about
yields so basically like hey I'm getting
like 10 a 10 percent APR or 5 percent
APR like this is so cool like I get like
something like a zero from my bank or 1%
yeah but like the fact is that like for
example Europe the the banks will
guarantee you up to 100,000 euros or
pounds or whatnot and the interesting
part is I can defy like we're so excited
about the yields we definitely forget that
actually there is risk involved and even
if there's risk involved let's say that
people understand that okay this is
something might be more riskier there's
always that are taking that risk so
basically it's also kind of like part of
the diversification yeah like one thing
I was like recommending in our community
that if someone actually builds a kind
of way to track your transactions based
on transactions it will let you or or
not let you do a ethereum transaction so
you can basically build a tool that
tracks your previous like trading
history or defy history and actually
decides whether you can do this
transaction or not if it's too risky for
you or you are actually able to take
that kind of risk
based on your profile so these kind of
things we'll probably see in the future
as well that's such a good point because
you're right the safer I'll get probably
the less interest you will get right so
talk about risk diversification
exactly so would you still feel
comfortable like if your sister or
little brother came over and they're
like I want to put money in the defy and
in the savings program would you still
give them a limitation on their overall
budget as of today or definitely I mean
whatever they were investing what are
they're investing in come on stocks and
shares or what would be the thing my
first of course goal is that I never
tried to advise on any kind of like
investment because it's it's it's like
history has proven that hasn't worked
between like between relatives you know
and I don't let money to my friends or
family I just said go to the other
protocol yeah no but I like jokes apart
I I think like I think everyone we
should actually understand the risk so
one of the things like initiatives we're
doing now at Aave but we do have a user
interface so you can access like Aave
at you myetherwallet or different
kinds of wallet that have integrated
Aave or basically to our user interface
and one of the things we're doing in our
interface we're trying to basically
disclaim the risk that is involved when
you basically do different kinds of
transactions or when you enter the
platform for your very first time and
like one of the problematic things this
comes from my background being in law is
that no one reads terms of conditions
like or disclaimers at all so when you
sign up for service like you never
really because they're the legal design
is completely wrong so you can't expect
a user who needs a service in 15 minutes
from now that he is actually creating an
account that he will read basically
30,000 50,000 words in that particular
moment efficient and even like bullet
points so the thing is like it's also
important to design them very well but
the user understands that okay here's
the very key point so what you are going
to do and how what kind of risk there is
involved and that's something like this
kind of disclaimers that are very
legally the sign is part of what we are
now actually doing so you can't just do
you a terms of conditions in your user
interface and expected people to read
but read them you actually need to
understand how users behave and and
track that behavior that's so true
though there
there could be a different way of
presenting it like through videos
through checking different pages and
slide with it live yeah that's a really
good point now there's a question that I
wanted to ask you earlier you talked
about flash loans yeah and you touched
upon it and it's something that's so
difficult to explain to people and I
know it's very hot yeah recently there
was I think someone who made one hundred
fifty thousand dollars through one flash
loan yeah which we which was viral uh
yeah on Twitter if my grandma Susie was
in the room and she was like
Stani what is a flash loan how would
you explain it in the most simple terms
so basically fly in very very easy
manner is to say that I would lend out
Suzy can borrow from me a certain amount
of the funds whatever I have available
and she can do all kinds of transactions
so she can buy bread from shop A go to
shop
B and sell the bread for a higher price
and that extra yields she could
basically buy another let's say like
item and and sell it or another place
again or whatever transactions she does
and basically she can do all of these
transactions and the only condition is
basically that she needs to return my
loan back to me and once if she doesn't
return those all the transactions that
she actually did in between will
basically fail so they will not exist
and it relies upon the system that
Ethereum is a big settlement Network so
everything is settled on each block
whatever transactions you are doing in
the in one block you have different
kinds of conditions and you add this
kind of condition and you don't fulfill
it it basically reverses the transaction
so basically we all image the
shopkeepers are agreed about the
settlement at broke and that's why those
transactions will basically get
cancelled as well they will not just
work so it's basically just one
condition that if that capital is not
returned all of that will basically go
away
fantastic is there any risk behind that
at the moment like are people mainly
using it when they see like an arbitrage
opportunity between two things are like
oh I'm gonna quickly take that money I'm
gonna buy here sell here give it back
and
take a little bit of interest..
definitely arbitrage is one of the like
first use cases that was like once we
launched I think it took like one hour
or something that there was like first
flash loan done by the arbitrage style
you can do like a collateral swap and
actually today I just got a message from
the defi savory guys and say that hey
there have been actually implementing
flash loans and and basically the
implementation works as follows so the
thing is when you create a CDP vault so
when you collateralize it to me and I
and in let's say you spend that Dai and
and they you want to close the CDP but
you don't have the Dai and basically the
market is going down and the liquidation
might happen so what you can actually do
is you can take a flash loan Dai flash
loan closed the CDP and and and get your
collateral back basically and what
basically they did it in a way that you
can actually do this as a end user
because flash loan is kind of like a
developer to build this kind of things
so defi saver came and built a tool
which uses flash known to close your CDP
without to avoid getting liquidated
because when you get liquidated you lose
part of your collateral which is roughly
13% and in the makerdao system to the
liquidators so basically when yourself
liquidate yourself what happens is that
you can keep that 13% so the money goes
back to the borrower which is pretty
cool really cool so that's those are the
savvy people who understand you know how
to make use... the interesting part
is that the savvy people are like
they're defi savers who built this this
awesome tool but basically the people
who can use it it's basically just
regular users like you and me end of the
day so if you have a CDP open you can
basically just click once and the
liquidation happens it without returning
the Dai so that's pretty cool super
fascinating and that is super cool so I
must ask you as one of the I would say
the father founders of this Defi movement
you know with Aave and all all you've
done like what do you really want to see
tell us about 2020 2021 and beyond if
possible... One interesting thing
I really want to see is is defi being it
as the fight to really
once you emphasize that different kinds
of protocols that are there are trying
to put more effort into maybe not even
like just just becoming more decent ones
but have a clearer picture and
communicate it very directly to the
community and the whole ecosystem
because the thing is like whatever
you're building in the DeFI we're part of
the community everyone and what I would
like to see is more that there's more
planning on what's your journey to
decentralization into what point and and
basically that will kind of like help
the whole ecosystem to to mature more
because if we lose the perspective of
what what's Defi is all about which is
basically the permissionless transaction
Non-custodial interaction and
transparency is what not we will lose
the kind of like value-added you'll be
fine then we will have just expensive my
sequel database that France all the
transactions and that's the biggest
thing I'm afraid and besides that the
second thing like what I'm trying to
kind of like preach is basically the
security and and to emphasize as much as
possible into the security and the way
you have your procedures so how you
update your code
what are you internal procedures,
disaster recovery plan and and so
forth so these things and that's just
like something that I'm basically saying
that okay you as a defi developer have
to obey or something like that it's just
like us everyone like Aave and every
v5 protocol that takes things seriously
we'll have to choose this row to
actually make sure that they are
applying the best practices that you can
and because we all are building end of
the day financial products and if we
want this space to continue to grow we
just have to make sure that we're using
the best tools available and putting all
therefore we can to protect our users
money that's important for us that's
really important and so in terms of mass
adoption and I know you've been asked
this question of multiple panels you
know and and I like how you humble and
you're obviously you're very
enthusiastic but you're also very
realistic which is great can you tell us
tiny like how far are we from being able
to have mass adoption on defined
platforms and when do you see like the
that that curve
crossing the chasm as we said that's
interesting because I think it it will
happen in different layers so they
basically there will be at some point a
lot of institutional interest but before
we get into that stage one of the things
is that we have to kind of understand is
how we are able to measure the risk
because the better we are able to
measure the risk and calculate the risk
and present it to the bigger public the
more mass adoption we will get because
then we'll get institutional
institutions involved in the dfi and
basically hedge funds and other
financial institutions which basically
opens a bit more the kind of like
floodgate to retailers because now
pretty much the kind of retailer in beef
is a nerd with technical skills yeah but
you can't scale that because there
aren't that many nerds and yeah not
everyone is a nerd right and to get like
more people nerds like us we build
protocols and our donors are building
basically a ways to interact with the
protocols easier but also mean the
financial institutions to kind of like
recognize the benefits understand the
risks and how to measure them and
basically understand how to participate
once we achieve that I think we'll get
very good adoption and I think that will
take like five years from now that's
really good
that's so important so measuring the
risk understanding communicating the
risk and then so that the institutional
guys come in and then that will get more
liquidity for the retail not just it
creates an entire ecosystem exact buddy
cool five years walk I'm keeping my
fingers crossed because this is
definitely I mean in terms of you know
II sauce and there the philosophy it
would make sense I'm yeah this is what
Bitcoin has given us so yeah the mother
of all this movement well thank you I
think she's ready she's ready right yeah
but thank you so much Stani so like if
we want to follow you or get in touch
with you what are the best ways to it
really depends on what your aim is the
easiest way to follower is us in Twitter
it's basically AaveAave the the handle if
you are very interesting what you're
doing and join our like telegram which
is basically of it so awesome and then
we have this cord of it
calm / discordant and I I think this
Court is the very best place to interact
directly with with the with the team if
you're building something especially if
you're a developer go to developers calm
and they're super cool stuff you could
actually do your first flash loan or
build a product for your end-users with
flash loans super cool will put all the
links in the description below thank you
so much for coming today it was a
pleasure to have you Stani and guys if
you have any comments opinions ideas
about the future of defi do you like
flash loans
what about decentralized exchanges all
the topics we had today the more
perspectives you can put in the comments
box the more we can learn as a community
so it's really important that you share
put your comments below like and
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and ideas see you guys next week every
Wednesday premiere 8 o'clock GMT at a
computer near you see you next week guys
you
