The notion of a lost civilization was not a new idea [from] plato comes the story of Atlantis a great
Advanced civilization and the suggestion is [that] it's this this hubris this?
Conceit of Atlantis that had become so sure of itself that somehow the universe struck it down
If for example we were to face another comet impact as we did [12,000] [800] years ago. [I] don't believe that our civilization
Would survive such a cataclysm those who would survive would be hunter-Gatherers
People like the Kalahari Bushmen and [the] Gatherers are in the business of survival and they would get through it
[and] ten thousand years from now
Their descendants might tell a story about how there had been a time when there was a great
civilization on this Earth
So advanced its powers were almost miraculous
You know they could send people to the moon?
They could fly around the world they could speak to each other on other sides of the planet
But something went wrong. They became cruel they became arrogant they began to impose their will on others
they ceased to wear their prosperity with Moderation and
The universe struck them [down]. I think there's a message in the Atlantis story for our civilization
We should stop being so fucking arrogant and proud in our achievements
We should show some humility and we should learn the lessons of the past
Mr.. Graham Hancock is back in the building for a record third time a three-peat
We've never done this in the history of London real, but who better than Mr.
Graham hancock to come back and talk to us he is an extraordinary man
I still remember preparing for days and days when Graham first came into our studios over four years ago at the time
He was by far [our] highest [calibre] guest he had been on the Joe Rogan show many times
And he was talking [about] things that we wanted to talk [about] and I still remember the first question I asked I said Graham
You once said that all politicians should drink ayahuasca [10] times before running for office and from there
He took the ball and ran with it he talked about writing he talked about pSychedelics
He talked about his own very personal struggle with Cannabis and this time Graham did not disappoint
He was back to talk about his latest book [Magician's] of the [gods] to also speak about his fiction series war
God and to continue beating the drum about the fact that as humans we
Deserve to have Sovereignty over our own bodies
We need to make our [own] choices and when I go and I'm invited down to the Royal Society in London
By [professor] David [nutt] and Amanda Fielding Graham Hancock's in the audience along with rupert sheldrake and all these very
Intelligent people supporting issues like LSD research, and it's just such a pleasure [to] have Graham
he is such a great icon and
I think it really is a british treasure along with some of the other mention names that I mentioned here
So [I] know you're gonna really enjoy this talk with Graham again
It was just fiery and everything is just packed with knowledge
And so it's just so grateful to have him on the show
And I know you're going to enjoy it very much of [course]
I am coming at you from shortage one of the most beautiful places in London come check it out
Or come see us in the studio sometime
I am loving the videos. I'm watching from all of you around the world
Thank you so much for posting videos of you getting out of your comfort zone on our [academy]
We've got our create and connect four-week cycle that pushes people to do different things to
Challenge yourself to make a plan to be accountable not to mention the body and mind challenges if I see one more
Video of someone taking a cold shower naked I'm gonna fall off my chair [not] to mention. We did a good up early challenge
We did an affirmation challenge all
Inspired by guests on London real so all that good stuff is happening over the academy if I just wanted to say thank you all
for those videos
And just always uplift my spirits I get home at night and I get on the [activity] [feed] and I watch one of those so
It's all good here in london. We are back in the mix we are cranking things out and now I leave you with Mr.
Graham Hancock pay attention
This is London real. I am brian [rose] my guest today is Graham
Hancock the British journalist and author of the best-selling books to sign in the seal fingerprints of the gods the war gods series
Supernatural and your most recent book Magician's of the gods you specialize in unconventional theories involving ancient
civilizations stone monuments and megaliths
astrological data from the past and altered states of consciousness
Your books have sold more than 5 million copies worldwide and have been translated into 27 languages Graham welcome back to London real
Thanks good to be with you again. Great to have you here
You're the only time we've ever had a guest on for three times
And so you know it's always a pleasure to have you [here]. Oh, thanks. Yeah, I actually mark your visits
It's kind of like a history [of] London real you were here first four years ago early days. Yeah
And then three years ago, and I still remember that first visit it was so powerful
I remember I prepared like four days for it and you came on and you just spoke so honestly about about everything about consciousness
We talked about Ayahuasca Cannabis, and it was just great, and I just before we even get started
I just want to acknowledge you for all the work you've done and just you just keep it real all the time Graham and I
That's [at] whenever I see you in an interview [or] on a rogen show you're always speaking
You know hard truths calling the world out for what it is and it's refreshing so well. Thank you
That's that's that's nice and nice of you to say that I just do what I do
I mean, there's nothing complicated or special about it
[you] [know] yeah, you seem to be very true to what you're doing
So what has been happening with you the past three years
I know magicians came out last year people had waited a long time for that book
I believe fingerprints was out in 95 is that fingerprints of the gods is is definitely the book that I'm best known for and
It proposes that
We are a species with
Amnesia that that there has been a forgotten episode of high civilization in the remote human past
back during the ice age that was the the case that I made in
Fingerprints of the gods it was a very controversial book it
tackled
many of the ideals of Mainstream history head-on
It suggested that the whole story we've been told about the origins of civilization is wrong
[and] that's that book was published in
1995 which is well
We're sitting here in
2016 so amazingly that's 21 years have passed and since I wrote fingerprints and that book came about because you were a
Journalist in Africa you had made a trip to Ethiopia
And you started just asking questions right because you didn't set out to be I I had a very little interest in in the ancient
Past as a matter of fact I was totally a current affairs guy during the 1970s and the the 1980s
But it was reporting a current affair story in Ethiopia that led me to
EThiopia's claim to possess the lost ark of the covenant
Which is actually central to the whole culture of Ethiopia?
And I thought that was a story worth investigating
[and] it was a story about the past and it drew me into the past in most unexpected ways
And I suddenly I suddenly found that I think [of] myself as an investigative journalist
But let's investigate the past let's look at let's look at what's going on in our backyard
Let's see what the let's see. What really may have been the story of
Humanity let's not just accept what we're told by the so-called experts in the field let's look into this ourselves
So that was my my project with with fingerprints of the gods
Was to bring that now of course it's not even in 1995 the the notion of a lost civilization was not a new idea
[that] notion has been around for a very long time
We can take that notion actually back thousands and thousands of years the most famous
Example is plato the Greek Philosopher [plato]
who
Gave us the story of Atlantis from plato comes the story of Atlantis a great
Advanced civilization
Which had navigating in Seafaring skills which could explore the world which build?
gigantic buildings which had advanced knowledge in every area which was
prosperous and powerful, but then plato says
that
corruption Crept into the society that it became
Cruel and avaricious it became greedy it began to impose its power
Around the world and he has a very ringing phrase he [said] that
Atlantis ceased to where its prosperity with Moderation [and]
The suggestion is that it's this this Hubris this?
Conceit of Atlantis that had become so sure of itself that somehow the universe
Struck it down
and we have the the cataclysm of flood and and disaster and that
Lantis is submerged beneath the waves now of course the view of historians and academics
Is that plato story is just made up? He just made it up to make some?
political or philosophical point
But this cannot be so that that that view can't be right?
I was very suspicious of that view the first time I heard it from a mainstream miss join
Why are they saying that plato made this up plato repeatedly states that it is [a] true story?
[and] as we look into it further we find something else that plato
Puts a date on the destruction of Atlantis he says Atlantis
Was submerged beneath the waves in a huge global cataclysm?
9,000 years before the time of solon that gives us an absolute date for this we know solon
We know who he was solon was a famous Greek lawmaker
He was an ancestor of plato as a matter of fact about 200 years before plato and around 600 BC
[Sol] [on] the Great Greek lawmaker
Made a visit to egypt and in egypt the priests are the temple of [sice] in the in the Delta
Told him the story of Atlantis and they said that it was written on the walls of the temple
And he said when did this happen when was this great civilization destroyed and they said [9,000] years ago and that
Was in 600 BC
so that's
9600 BC in our calendar. That's 11,000 600 years ago
Plato is telling us a great civilization was destroyed in a global cataclysm of flood
[1600] Years ago he's laughed at by all academics and historians, but then Geology comes along and Lo and Behold
What do we find eleven thousand six hundred years ago is a truly cataclysmic episode in Geological history
It's called Meltwater Pulse one B
We have a massive rise in sea level as the ice sheets on North America and [Northern] Europe just column
But crumble and collapse into the ocean if plato made the whole thing up
he was just
astonishingly on the money
with the latest geology
And I think that we really have to reconsider our attitudes to these stories that have come down to us from the past
Academics have been too quick to dismiss them too quick to say oh we figured the whole story out. There's no mystery there
Maybe there's a huge mystery there. Maybe we should listen to these clues and hints from the past that speak of a great civilization
so when I published fingerprints of the gods in
in
1995
it was at the end of a long lineage going back to plato and before and of course famously ignatius Donnelly in the
1900s the early 1900s and late 18-hundreds wrote Atlantis the antediluvian world
Which was a huge investigation of [Abanda], so this subject has been tackled again and again and again and again
Mainstream Academia has said no, it's impossible there could be no lost civilization
We know everything about the past and it's been dismissed
But the problem is that new evidence keeps coming out which can't be explained
by the existing historical model new evidence that just doesn't fit the picture and
My sense is that this evidence is now becoming overwhelming and that we're reaching a tipping point. Maybe not this year
maybe not next year, but
[within] our
lifetimes we are going to see a
Complete the new understanding of the past or a radical revision of the past and therefore of our place in the world as well
Did you know when you [published] that book in 95 that you were picking a fight with?
Academia that you were going to soon [be] their nemesis for the next twenty [years]
I didn't know that really I
I understood that that there were academics with entrenched positions on the subject
But I didn't I didn't realize how violent it could become how
Really?
Really powerful the reaction could be and how concerted and organized it could be [I]?
didn't realize that actually the past is an ideological subject in our society and
That it is a subject that is therefore tightly controlled
As to what we are to know and not know about the past either current politicians in the current the current will [sees]
academics you see when when when you have a huge
Civilization as we have to do today with billions of people all around the world and you're in a leadership role
You want them kind [of] organized and productive and doing stuff and that you want them to feel good about that?
So you want to tell them a [story] about why that should be good? Why they should go to work every day and
basically
maybe not enjoying themselves, [but] but they just go into work in their salary and
[Buy] consumer Goods
This is what our society is about
it's about production and consumption and we're supposed to feel good about [that] and and
the historical model that we have at the moment tells us that we
21st century technological Society is the absolute apex and pinnacle of human achievement
We are it. We're the bee's knees. You know we've made it. We're the end of that long story and here
We are and we [should] just produce and consume endlessly in in this sort of hedonistic binge
And that is that's what life is all about and that it's very nice for those in positions of power
Because if people will buy into that they stay quiet. They don't ask questions. They don't complain they don't write in the streets
They just do their jobs
And I would suggest that the historical model that we have at the moment is part of that system of control
It's part of is part of saying that it's perfectly normal and right that things should be as they are
We should be very pleased with ourselves
We're not doing anything wrong and let's just carry on doing what we do
so when you shake that up and publish a book that has a lot of
Research to it a lot [of] thought to it
It starts upsetting lots of different people and the academics come after you, but there's a lot of people [that] just don't want to hear
academics and their friends in the [Media]
the this is a
Very substantial issue. There's there's a hot. There's a whole network of ideas [now]
I'm not talking [about] a conspiracy [actually] this isn't this isn't a conspiracy
[it's] just the way the world works, but the way the world changes
[is] that is that people come along and suggest things which may be very uncomfortable for those who are in power and
When you're in power, you don't like to feel uncomfortable
So you do whatever you can to put that down now from an academic point of view let's say a professor of Archeology
he has
invested his whole career in a particular model of the past he or she have invested their whole career in a particular model of the
Past that model was already set when they went into the profession
Right there the very moment they start doing their first exams that [university] a filter is being applied if they are in any way
Outside the accepted teaching if they are suggesting that things are not as they've been as they are taught
Then they will not pass those exams or they will not do well
And they will not so in a way in order to do well
Academically in that field [you]
[have] to buy into the existing model because if you don't buy into the existing model your paper will [be] marked down and you will
Not get the results that could eventually lead you to becoming an [academic] so by definition
academics are already people who've bought into the model and their careers are invested in that model and
They're all decent people
They're all they're all good people they believe passionately that they're right and that this is that
This is how it is and that belief also becomes?
Existential in a way you start to you. It's very easy for people to
Become deeply invested in their ideas. I think we all do this we become we have a certain set [of] ideas
We come deeply invested in them and and when those ideas are challenged
It's not just an intellectual discussion anymore. We take it as an attack on [us] in person
That's what I think that's fundamentally why academics reacted to me in the way that they did I?
Was arguing that the whole field of history in [archeology] may have got the origins of civilization
Completely wrong, but at a personal gut level that was taken by many
as a direct attack [on] them and their place in the world and that
[then] resulted in a counter-attack
On me now the counter attacks on me would never have happened if my book had been a failure
There's lots of lots of books of alternative history that say radical things
but most of them don't appear above the radar this one did appear above the radar and
As a result there was a concerted effort was made to discredit me, and that is a bit of a conspiracy
You know when you have when you have academics who write to the BBC?
And they say you must bring this man down
You know when they actually [say] that and the BBC makes a [programme] which is which is designed to damage my reputation
And that program is then later found to have been unfair by the broadcasting standards commission
Something odd is going on here, and yes something a little bit to do with reality control is happening there
And this is systemic because it doesn't stops with the BBC other media sources
Ted you've had your ups and downs very weird with Ted, and I just find it very very strange
Because I used to like the odd Ted talk when I heard it, and you know I thought well
Okay, ideas worth spreading on and go with that and some interesting and interesting discussions. [oh], no
I think it's fairly well known I I do a tedx event in
January
2013 [I'm] there rupert sheldrake is there
Satish Kumar is there a bunch of other people in there
We all give [to] looks and they go up on the Tedx Ted YouTube channel and then two weeks later
Ted removes my talk and it removes rupert sheldrake's talk and
Well, nationally there's a fuss about this and people want to know why and ted say oh well because these these were pSeudo scientific
ideas well they never justified or supported that they accused us of
representing ideas about consciousness which which were not scientific
That's not the case at all rupert sheldrake is a highly credentialed scientist
These ideas were scientific enough, but they were the kind of science that these people don't like there's a certain faction in science
Which is which is called materialist reductionism where everything is reduced to matter
That so the idea that there [could] be anything to consciousness Beyond the brain is
Anathema to such scientists those scientists believe that consciousness. They call it an [effing] [amin] on of brain activity, okay?
We have these big brains. We evolved them in order to
survive in the the jungle of
survival of the fittest and [a] kind of
Accidental byproduct of that we got this thing [called] consciousness believe it or not that is what people like Richard Dawkins
actually [believe] when consciousness is an accidental byproduct of
Brain activity
Michelle Drake and I were suggesting that that's not the case that it's much more mysterious than that
And that's why they took our stalks off
Not because they were unscientific
but [because] they challenged a dogma of a particular faction of science and in fact rupert
And I received huge support from many scientists after said that [10] were way [out] of line
To do this and that the ideas that we were presenting were not unscientific
They were leading-edge
But they were not um not unscientific, so in the end Ted were forced to put the [stalks] back not on their YouTube channel
But on their main site. They were forced to Publish the reasons. Why they'd taken them offline?
They were forced to cross all those reasons out very
Humiliating climb down for Ted and those are still left online with all their bogus reasons for removing the stalks crossed out and our rebuttals
placed there and the Stalks back online so a
Few Years later in
2015 a Tedx organizer in redding in England comes up to me and says would I do a ted talk with him
Tedx event and I said well you know I've had a bit of trouble with ted in the past and and he said yeah
But I'd like your subject and I want you to speak and I'm an independent organizer
And I want you to speak so I said okay. I'll do it and I went and did it and Lo and Behold
after two weeks this time ted think they're getting smart they realize they've got a massive backlash from
Censoring me and taking me offline
So now they leave it online, but they stick a huge health warning on it, basically saying this is not politically correct
This is not sanctioned authorized science
You know and so the museum of ted seems to be that actually its audience
Can't make up their own minds that they're like children [that] they're not capable of deciding for themselves
and that ted must curate and shepherd everything and to present them with the correct material for their minds and
To me, this is absolutely astonishing is astonishing that [ted] with that well. I'll not get involved with Ted again
I thought I'd give them another chance
I thought they'd learned from the previous experience, but now I see that they haven't they [haven't] learned at all
And and that there's no point whatsoever in using their platform. Yeah, I think they're very sensitive about
consciousness
Psychedelics, you probably are one of the very few talks
That's even absolutely enough they've covered they have covered psychedelics in in talks before. I don't think I don't think that's the problem
I think they're I think they're willing [to] to talk about psychedelics particularly in view of the fact
There's such a lot of good scientific research going on pSYchedelics
Yeah, they wouldn't talk about that
But the question is how do you position that talk if you if you were to suggest as as I do that in altered state?
Consciousness, we may access valuable and useful information
Which which may be a fundamental importance to humanity? That's a step too far over an [organised]
And then they call it pseudoscience or something and then they kind of redact some of those accusations
Yeah, I had lawrence krauss in here, and he did the movie with Richard Dawkins the unbelievers and right?
I think both of them have this theory that
you know the consciousness there there really isn't anything more to it from a scientific, Viewpoint and
They need to go take some DMT
What happens when you challenge people that you've did someone challenge Richard dog I do that
I I challenged Richard Dawkins ready
he came to speak in my hometown which is bath, and he spoke in the public library, [so] I thought I'd go along and
he was
Promoting a book called the magic of reality so [I] wanted to question him about his views on reality and my question to him which
I recorded him but on YouTube and his answer was that there are
Cultures who believe that reality is much more complicated than just matter and that they believe that
Drinking a visionary substance like ayahuasca can give them access to those rums. Have you ever as a scientist?
have you ever tested your own prejudices by
working with one of these substances and seeing what the experience is what the effect that the experiences have on your thinking and
He was interesting
he said yeah under the under the right circumstances stances with
You know correct medical support as long as I could be sure I was safe. I would do it
So I await the day when Richard Dawkins has its first
Massive DMV trip and
Possibly thinks again about [a] few things right, and there's a possibility right? He's probably I
I think [there] is it there is a possibility [especially] with
Dinner [8:00]. It's not impossible the conditions that Richard Dawkins set which would be
When I asked him that question and he publicly answered to it was that he wanted medical supervision
He wanted to be assured [that] he would be safe. Well. There's work [going] on with pSychedelics at imperial [college] in London right [now]
We shall provide him with all of those things
[so] [if] Richard Dawkins actually wants to put his money where his mouth is he can contact professor Richard nutt?
And he can have at any rate a deep psilocybin experience in imperial college, and I think he would find that interesting
I think even even if it didn't shake up his view of the world he would find it an interesting thing to do
Yeah, he can do that. I think legally now cuz David nutt has of course they don't they build to do that
I think they are doing a DMT study next so hopefully a DMT study is coming up here
Did in some way did fingerprints of the gods put you on [a] journey to start thinking about altered states of consciousness?
Was was I mean as you as you get more into into looking at some of these
Monuments and monoliths in the history did that contribute to that journey or was it [just] you being not born as an individual I?
had become aware
if you like of the spiritual side of life
Not through the mainstream religions in the West
but through my studies of ancient Egyptian scriptures and religions and and
Immersing myself in that material had I suspect opened me
To the possibility [of] other realms of other of other realities
But I hadn't really considered how one enters or explores those realms. I I'd always thought that the great pyramid
Whatever else it is is
Connected to consciousness in some way that it that [it's] like a huge instrument
Which is which is designed to enhance or affect consciousness in certain very specific ways if you ever have the opportunity
To be alone inside the great pyramid I have had on a few occasions
It's truly a mystical experience especially if the lights go [off]
[it] really it can be very extraordinary in effects it effects consciousness, so I was aware [of] consciousness
I was aware that there were views that we live in a complex reality that there are spirit worlds which quantum
Physicists might call parallel universes all of this was I was aware of it
But I hadn't I hadn't really thought this is something I would look into
After I'd finished [finger] [prints] of the gods. I then went on and wrote a series of other books on the lost civilization theme
the huge book published in 2002 was underworld
Documenting seven years of Scuba diving looking for ruins under underwater, and I wanted to do something different after that
I wanted I wanted to get away from the whole lost civilization and these endless bloody arguments with academics and their
Mates in the Media. [I] just thought I've done that
I was interested in human origins, and I mean I need to cut a long story short here, but the background research I did
Focused on the issue of Cave art when did our ancestors? Why did they suddenly start creating this?
Fantastic art in these deep caverns deep beneath the grounds or in rock shelters high in Mountains in South Africa all over the world and
Then I found there was a really good explanation for that
let's pay tribute to the late great terence McKenna and his book food of the gods the [stoned] ape they're
Implicating psilocybin in in the emergence of modern human consciousness, but let's also pay [tribute] to [David] Lewis Williams. Who's a professor of?
Archaeology and Anthropology at the University [of] Witwatersrand in South Africa and David Lewis Williams right back to the
1970s had been arguing that the secret of rock and cave art all around [the] world was that it was shamanistic art
That these were shamans who had entered deeply altered states of consciousness
returned to the everyday state of consciousness and painted their visions and
That's why there's so much in common with these images all
all around the world
and I suddenly [realized] this is fascinating there seems to be this moment in the human story when the light just goes on and
and we become
recognizably us
That's what I'm going to look at so then the next thing was
Okay, I'm a hands-on researcher
I'm not just gonna sit in a [fucking] armchair and write about this. I've got to I've got to do some serious work
That's the journalist in you right. I'm gonna do some serious work
That's the journalist as an academic would have just said in the arm perhaps and indeed indeed David Lewis Williams
Who I have huge respect for has done precisely that he refuses to take any pSyChedelic even though his argument
Is that pSychedelics were responsible for cave art? He doesn't want to take one himself?
He says I don't want to burn my brains in [anyway]
Their research is the research is there I don't work that way if I'm going to write about something
I have to experience it otherwise. I shouldn't be writing about it and therefore I needed to
Have psychedelic experiences. I had had psychedelic experiences before very few [I'd] taken LSD in
1974 when I was 24 years old and then I had no more pSychedelics until I
started to research the book that became a supernatural I
Discovered that in the Amazon jungle there are shamans who are drinking a powerful Visionary brew
And what are they doing afterwards painting their visions exactly like those cave artists?
I
Realized it was a key I could I could I could learn from this so I went to the Amazon and I have my first
series of
Ayahuasca sessions with with with shamans in the Amazon and it was an
Extraordinary series of experiences which shook me to my core
It gave me what I needed to write my book to do the research authentically
but something else as well a whole new path opened up in front of me and an
area of
inquiry and investigation that I'd never even
Considered before and also valuable personal personal lessons to learn from these ancient
Teacher plants because I believe that that's what they [are]
And our society with its rabid hysterical
demonizing attitude to
Psychedelics is Dead wrong 100%
[wrong] and 100 or 200 years from now people will look back on this age and the
persecution of the war on drugs
and they will see it as a terrible time in the human story when a dreadful drug mistake was made which was only corrected with
Great difficulty, you know [the] people who created [the] war on drugs
Are the same?
ugly people who are invested in war and harm and hatred and damage all over the world and
Since we're suffering from the consequences of their actions in those other areas
We should wake up to the fact that the war on drugs is another one of those consequences that those same [violent] evil people
Who've turned the world into [hell] are the people who declared the war on drugs when it comes to?
Psychedelics are we getting small wins do you feel like we're getting there? Yes, okay? We are getting small wins in psychedelics there there
There's a huge process underway. It's difficult to see the whole picture because we're in the middle of it at the moment
It's difficult to know where it's going to go on [I] think the internet has played a big role in this
It has it means that information can't be kept within exclusive little leaks anymore it means that
Information is free and [that] people can gain access to information and find out things for [themselves]. I think this is led to an
Across-the-Board
Questioning of authority structures in our society see that the curious thing about democracies
We're told democracies are great things and democracies are great things of course
But what you have what [happens] in a democracy is that you get a massive investment in the manipulation of public opinion?
See a dictator doesn't care about manipulating public opinion
Because a dictator doesn't care about public opinion
[he] doesn't [need] to nip [youlet] manipulate the public opinion in order to bring the [public] with him because he's operating by Force in A
Democracy a politician cannot operate by Force they have to bring the [public] with them
Now if democracy really worked if it was really good thing all information would [be] completely transparent [there] would be no
Lobbyists there would be no money being paid to give us information
But actually what we live in is a society where vast amounts of money are spent in
shaping public opinion on
particular areas
And and this is this is the society that that we live in today where huge amounts of money are
Being invested in promoting a particular ideological position
And I think that where we're getting wins is that people are waking up there?
They're realizing that this is part of a system of manipulation and control
They're realizing we [are] sovereign adults
We have the right to do with our own bodies what we wish so long as we do no harm to others
I mean what an absurd abuse of human rights for for a
politician to say that he will send you or me to prison because [we've]
Experienced a psychedelic we didn't do any harm to others we underwent a personal experience and for that
We're going to be sent to prison this is the inquisition
This is like burning people at the stake you know for not following a particular version of Christianity
[this] is an appalling abuse that's that's taking place in our society so people are waking up to that
It's part of an overall waking up to the way that the world is run
But I think it's at the leading edge of that waking up and then on the other side we have great
Scientists people like David nutt who are refusing to be beaten down by the ideology who realized that these substances have?
Enormous Potential enormous therapeutic potential and who
Against stiff opposition are doing the science
[opposition] from other scientists as glass addition from other scientists they are doing the science and they are getting incredible results
So now we're finding that science is saying actually you know what these psychedelics
they don't really seem to harm people and they actually do seem to do a really incredible amount of good they can solve problems of
Depression they can solve problems of anxiety they can solve problems of of fear of death
Amongst people suffering from terminal cancers and so then they're very healing
Life-giving in the right way used in the right way responsibly correctly they can be very good things and science is
Getting this now so it's becoming harder for for the dominator class to maintain its [position] on this subject
But they still do and of course in britain
we've just heard that you know the
Absurd psychoactive substances act published where I mean can you believe this is this are we actually living in 2016 or is this?
1984 that we are now living in a britain where any substance [that] has any effect on your mind is
Illegal unless it is specifically exempted. What is specifically exempted alcohol?
[Tobacco] and
Caffeine all other mind-altering substances are now
Illegal that means that no adult in britain can make any choice about their own mind any choice at all
without breaking the law
This seems to me a very strange situation
and
But there's hope in it because the law is so ridiculous that it's going to bring the law itself into disrepute
That if politicians are so are so stupid that they create such a law in the first place
Sooner or later
They will have been given enough rope to hang themselves. Do you think Britain's going backwards then when the u.s. Is going slide?
I think britain yeah, I think Britain's going really radically backwards at the moment
because we have a
bunch of Incredibly dull
narrow-Minded
Stupid politicians in Britain got plenty of dull narrow-minded and stupid politicians in America as well
But America is a country where actually democracy can work the citizens of Colorado decided that it was
Extremely inconvenient for them and an abuse of their rights as adults that they were not allowed to smoke Cannabis, so they made cannabis legal
They took a vote they legalized it and now you can go into beautiful Cannabis boutiques in
Across, Colorado and be treated as an adult
[buy] whatever you want and leave nobody is judging. You nobody's asking you questions. Nobody's sending you to prison
This is [a] this is a great thing about [America] that individual bits of America can [make] up their mind on an issue
Regardless of the Federal view see I can't imagine
Northumberland or Yorkshire making Cannabis legal with Westminster disagrees
But Colorado and Alaska can so yeah, I think America is is moving ahead. It's it's some
it's good thing too because America as A
State entity
Has been the driving Force behind all?
the evils of the war on drugs
[so] [it's] a very good thing that the American people at the grassroots [level] are saying enough
[and] they are ending that war state-By-state
because make no mistake the ending of the war on Cannabis is the beginning of the end of the war on drugs and
those who are invested in the war on drugs are desperately struggling to stop the
Legalization of Cannabis because they know that it's going to open the floodgates and suddenly all over the world
Adults will be allowed to make decisions about their own minds their own bodies and their own consciousness without asking anybody's permission
Or breaking anybody's law so long as they do no harm to others
It's fascinating to watch this kind of a civil war in America where the federal is saying one thing the state is saying the other
They both don't want to fight too hard against the other but they but it's changing yeah
And you spend time in Colorado when you're in a state like that that is
Open to this idea of having sovereignty over your own body does that have a knock-on effect to you know the rest of the society?
Does it just feel like a different place? I think it does you know it did it I?
like the Air in Colorado
I [I] feel that I'm breathing the air of some kind of freedom there that that people have freely chosen a particular way
And they've made it happen
Interestingly people Follower America are flocking to Colorado. It's very attractive place to go and Gonna live now
I understand property prices are zooming up you know there's a huge economic boom as a result of Cannabis
I suspect a lot of other states are looking at that. Yeah
I'm thinking this may be the way to go you [know] it's still today
750,000 [3/4] of a million Americans are still arrested every year for possession of Cannabis that's
[three-quarters] of a million [Americans] every year getting criminal records [for]
[doing] what?
Having a mild experience in their own homes doing no harm to others of course
[this] is insane and the same society even encourages them to drink alcohol. Which is a far more dangerous drug
So we need to wake up as a human species
We need to you know we need to we need to become our own leaders
This is the in my view the next step forward is
Do we really need leadership?
You know if we need leaders then that suggests we are infants that we're not capable of making mature and informed
decisions Ourselves
And I think that if humanity is going to progress if we're going to move forward that's the next step that we
That we have to come to that the role of leadership in society gets reduced that we don't have these these high profile
Campaigns and these celebrity leaders going around we don't actually need leaders. We can all be our own leaders. We need administrators
We need technocrats who can do certain [things] for us, but they working for us we're not working for them you see
That's the thing. It's interesting you [say] that now that we're in full bore of a you know
Incredibly almost intensely insane American presidential race where you know it's not only leaders
But it's turned into celebrity it's almost turned into show business you know and no one really questions the fact that we should
Maybe not be voting for someone and lead ourselves
It's more who we voting for let's talk about this person, but [aren't] really asking the questions
You're talking about know those those those questions aren't aren't being asked but I think it's interesting what we're observing in America
the the
I think what's driving it in America is a deep distrust of
Authority and a deep distrust of anything that's
Connected to the status quo. There's but I'm not sure if politicians really got the message yet
There's absolute revulsion at them
here in Britain and in America
We're revolted by our political class they're disgusting individuals
I can hardly think of a politician who is hand I would even wish to shake and
I would certainly be washing my hands afterwards if I did
really repulsive individuals
So so the vote against the vote for trump is really a vote against them. I think it's a vote against the system
I think I think it's a vote against the system that has failed Americans again and again and again
And it's the same system all over the world. That's failing
Britons and failing the French and failing everybody else it's it's a global system of control
I think I think people are aware of that. I think they're fed up with that and I want change so
Trump is getting is getting support because [he] certainly not you no part of that. He looks different
He sounds different he feels different Bernie sanders got a lot of support for the same reason [he] looks and sounds different
They were saying very different things, but both of them were anti establishment figures
And that's what's that's what's going on here [that] the the the establishment?
Itself is losing its grip and we are seeing a kind of
Crazy Chaos resulting from that, but we will sort it out human beings are capable of sorting things out
We don't need leaders to sort things out
We can sort things out ourselves, so this is progress really [I] would say so, okay
you mentioned Cannabis before when you were here four years ago you talked about your relationship with Cannabis and how
another plant [Ally] mother ayahuasca
Had kind of discussed things about the other plant
I like a cannabis with you um had your relationship with Cannabis changed since then yeah bit
I described so basically what happened with me in Cannabis was that um I had a I had a very long
Relationship with Cannabis [it] started late. I didn't start smoking Cannabis until I was 37 years old
and
By the time I was in my early 40s
[it] had become a very central [part] of my life. That's when I discovered I could write with Cannabis as well as you know
just enjoy nice food, so I
Actually wrote fingerprints of the guards entirely under the influence of Cannabis
I was I was stoned and my critics will [say] oh that explains everything
You know and [then] they do actually they do. Yeah, that's a lot of the arguments
[hi], [Kokes], you can cut users drugs. So we come you know we can't believe anything. He says the ultimate ad hominem argument
Yeah, okay, right? Yeah. Yes, a world where was I oh yes the relative of Cannabis so so so so
the problem was
Cannabis like any of our plant allies needs to be treated with respect
You know if you use this stuff 16 hours a day seven days a week
That's not respecting it and I was [definitely] getting bent out of shape in lots and lots of ways
I realize now that at that period of my life's route about
2009 10 11 there abouts [I] had become extremely paranoid and very suspicious of other people's
Motives [I] live in constant suspicion
and that's when I had a series of five sessions of Ayahuasca in Brazil in October 2011 and
Those sessions focused entirely on my Cannabis habit, and they showed me that I?
Was behaving in a way that was hurtful and damaging to to other people that this suspicion this jealousy that was
That was connected with with Cannabis in some way was hurtful to others
And it was and it was not a good thing and and I was given a very powerful
Kicking by Ayahuasca, and when I came [back] from Brazil [I] found I couldn't smoke Cannabis anymore tried
I tried [vibrated] the vaporizer, and then I couldn't smoke it. I fired up the baker
I filled this big bag of you know vapor
And took one inhalation on and I felt absolutely disgusted, and I never I never know I didn't understand it at all
But I couldn't go on I literally couldn't go on
Ayahuasca had made me stop
Completely smoking Cannabis and that carried on for three years
from
October 2011 right through [until] the Joe Rogan expect your organ experience in
September 2014 right so I'm sitting talking to Joe
Live as we are now and he says as you just asked me
You know what?
What's the thing with you and Cannabis are you still have you still?
You know not smoking it and I said yeah nearly three years now. I haven't haven't touched it, but I'm beginning to think
Maybe I could dip my toes back in the water so [Joe] says why don't you start now and pulls out a nice fat?
California joint Ceo doesn't need a lot [of] encouragement for that, so we lit it up and smoked it on air
And I did enjoy [it] actually very much and and so what what's happened since then is it that in?
situations Like Colorado
Where there's no hassle
Okay, I'm not compelled. I don't feel a compulsion to use Cannabis
Anymore in the way that I did
But I do enjoy using it and where it's convenient and easy for me to do it
Spending a lot of time in Colorado these days. I do I particularly like Cannabis in the form of oil
I don't really like I [don't] smoke for many years. I didn't smoke. I used a vaporizer
[but] I I think
Cannabis oil is a very interesting way to to take [Cannabis], orally
[oh], yeah, orally
And of course you know in Colorado with the whole medical marijuana industry they've they've redeveloped really excellent
Cannabis products, and you can you know pick and choose exactly?
Exactly what you want and with the full [knowledge] that it's totally legal and nobody's going to break down your door or wreck your life
For dying so and again safe, and you know what it is. Yeah, yeah, what a concept, right?
It's a really it's a really great concert
Continue watching this fascinating conversation for free by clicking on the link below to visit our website and I'll see you on the inside I
Think it's important to work on the way
We behave with other
To be and to be to try as far as possible to be nurturing and positive but but you know also to be honest
Be your own leader don't accept the leadership of others
