
Japanese: 
今日のゲストを紹介しましょう
ドキュメンタリーシリーズ
「Diggin' in the Carts」をご覧なら
すでにご存じのはず
僕の隣にいるのは
伝説のミュージシャンであり作曲家
８bitサウンドの先駆者です
ご存じの方もいるように
1980年に任天堂に入社し
印象的な初期のゲーム音楽を
生み出しました
田中宏和さんを拍手で迎えましょう
“Hip Tanaka”で知られてますが
どういう経緯で この名前に？

English: 
Hi. How do you do?

Japanese: 
当時 ヒップホップでは誰のファン？
いいですね
まず通常のやり方として
田中さんが手がけた作品を
今から紹介しますが
ゲームボーイ世代の人は？
誰もがゲームボーイでやった
ゲームと言えば
１つは「テトリス」
あと「スーパーマリオランド」
ゲームをクリアした人には
おなじみの音です

English: 
That's from hip hop music,
which was popular at the time.
Like... A Tribe Called Quest.
Is that hip hop? Or rap?

Japanese: 
「スーパーマリオランド」でした
今 この音楽を聴き直して
何か思い出されることはありますか
なんで忙しかったんですか
ハードにも関わってたとは面白い

English: 
I was busy. Very busy.
Back then, I was composing and
programming at the same time.
I was designing the sound inside
the Game Boy console as well.
I did all that while simultaneously
writing the music for Mario Land
and two or three other games.
So I worked on hardware, composing,
programming... It was crazy.

English: 
That's right.
I won't get into the complex details,
but first there was the Famicom,
short for "Family Computer."
This system had a sound chip in it.
They wanted to create 
something smaller than the Famicom
without increasing the cost.
With so many limitations,
its overall quality would've gone down.
The precision of the sound would be
compromised, but I still wanted to

Japanese: 
チップチューンという音楽は
今や世界的に知られていますが
ゲームボーイの音源を元に
作られることが多い
そのサウンドチップを
開発したわけですよね
世界で１億２千万台も販売したーー
ゲーム機のサウンドチップを
どう設計しました？

English: 
create richer sounds than the Famicom.
So I tried to think of ways to bring
greater expression to the sound.
Let me give you an example. The
Famicom didn't have stereo sound,
but I found a way to force the sound 
out from the left, or right, or both.
With the Famicom, the shortest possible sound you could produce
with a program was 
one per 16 milliseconds.
So, the duration of the shortest possible sound
was 16 milliseconds.
To produce really clipped sounds like this,
I added new circuits
to control sounds shorter than 16 milliseconds.
Another example is the use of "noise."
With regard to the Famicom,
there was only one kind of noise to use.
But with the Game Boy,

English: 
you could choose between two kinds of noise.
There was the original noise wave,
and a more cyclical noise
that sounded like a "beep" sound.
I created two different types of noise.
There were so many other little details.
In the Famicom days, there were only 18 or so
people in product development.

Japanese: 
混乱させないために言っておきますが
ファミコンというのは
世界ではＮＥＳという名で
知られているゲーム機です
制作チームについて聞かせてください
携帯型のゲーム機を作ろうと
任天堂は突如 決断したようですが
何人のチームでゲームボーイに
取り組んだんですか

Japanese: 
サウンドチップの開発で
重要な役目を担っていた田中さんは
当時 ご自分が作っているチップで
25年後も音楽が作られてると思いました？
世界中のアーティストに使われて
父親のような誇らしい気分になりますか

English: 
And there were only 5 or 6 of us
who worked on the Game Boy.
Plus there were other companies
that we collaborated with, so I'm not sure
how many of us there were,
but at Nintendo, I'd say about 7 or 8.
5 or 6 in hardware.
Then there were people for design,
including the case design, so maybe about 10.
Not at all.
I was totally oblivious to that. Totally.

English: 
My hometown has both beaches and
mountains. I skied in the winter.
It was a great place to grow up.
My mother happened to be a schoolteacher,
so I had to take piano lessons.
That was a big influence.

Japanese: 
ここで まだ紹介してない部分の
お話を伺いたいと思います
これまでの仕事から言うと
あなたは作曲もし
エンジニアでもありますね
その一方で田中さんは
ものすごく音楽好きで
いろんな音楽に傾倒しています
なので少し時間をさかのぼって
生まれ育った関西での音楽体験を
お話しいただけませんか
洋楽に初めて触れ
音楽好きになった経緯を

Japanese: 
音楽が好きになってバンドを組み
演奏をしたいと思うようになったのは？
その時に影響されたのは？
高校でバンドを組む人は
誰かに憧れてカバーしたりしますが

English: 
In middle and high school,
like with anyone else in the world,
the variety of music was more limited.
I listened to what the world listened to.
The Beatles, the Carpenters...
I listened to what all other young people
in the world were listening to.
It was in first grade, actually.
I first thought of forming a band when 
I was in elementary school.
But it was middle school when
I started my first band.

Japanese: 
初ライブは覚えてます？
それはすごい　本当に？
火事になりました？
バンド活動を始めて
音楽を演奏する立場にいた人が
どうしてエンジニアの道へ
進むことになったのでしょうか

English: 
At the time, we formed a band that covered
the Beatles and Elton John.
We did our first live gig as a trio.
We traded off playing guitar, bass and piano.
We played at a school festival.
At the end of the show, one of the guys
poured gasoline into his mouth and spit fire.
The teachers were freaked out and 
they had to stop our gig.
No, but the top of the podium
caught fire. It was crazy.

Japanese: 
入社したのは1980年
任天堂が「スーパーマリオ」や
「ドンキーコング」を発売して
大衆文化の代名詞として
世界中を席巻したのは1983年の頃です
入社した頃はまだ小さな会社でしたよね
当時はどうでした？

English: 
I didn't want to become an engineer.
Nintendo had happened to be
looking for different sounds
for toys or something at the time.
I thought toys would be relatively stress-free,
so I applied.
When I joined Nintendo, there was no Mario,
Game Boy, or Game & Watch.
There were only arcade games,
like Space Invaders.
Nintendo also made playing cards.

Japanese: 
任天堂を企業として見てみるのも
興味深いものです
その頃 ビデオゲーム市場に
参入し始めたわけですが
元々 任天堂は
京都で100年ほどの歴史を持つ会社でした
簡単に会社の歴史をお話しください
花札の説明も含めて
どんな会社でしたか

English: 
As I said, there weren't that many people
in development, like 17 or 18 people.
It was a free and friendly environment.
That's hard to describe.
At the time, Hiroshi Yamauchi was
the president of Nintendo.

Japanese: 
当時 変革の危機にあるという
感覚はありましたか
コンピューターゲームの時代が
到来しつつある中で
新規事業に乗り出すわけですよね

English: 
Yamauchi-san may have been a little
unsatisfied being just
a playing card company,
and wanted to do something more innovative.
The computer boom ushered in
the age of electronics.
I think Yamauchi-san
decided to go in that direction.
And from that moment,
he declared that Nintendo was going to
make the Family Computer.
Not at all. I can say with absolute
certainty that we did not.
We just all developed games based
on our own themes. Then one day,

Japanese: 
これからあるものを
お聴かせしましょう
「スーパーマリオ」や「ドンキーコング」が
誕生する前
いわゆる インベーダーゲーム市場へ
任天堂は参入します
「スペースインベーダー」に続き
類似のゲームが出てた時代です
あなたが初めて手がけたゲーム
「スペースファイアバード」です

English: 
we were told that we were entering
the home console market.
We were all just doing what we were good at.
In my case, it was sound.
I never thought about how it might
affect the world. None of us did.
We may have had a feeling of dread,
that without this, Nintendo was over.

English: 
There were only 4 or 5 of us
and only two of us were 
in charge of sound.
I worked on making simple circuits 
on synthesizers.
So the sound for shooting a missile or
crushing an enemy was achieved
by assembling hardware, not software.

Japanese: 
このゲームは何人のチームで
あなたの役割は？
当時を振り返ってみて
あなたに課せられた音は
すごく原始的なーー
１つの撃つ音だったはずです
その音を作るプロセスはどうでしたか

Japanese: 
どのくらい試行錯誤して
これだという音を見つけたんですか
完璧なミサイル音だと思うものを

English: 
The basics of a synthesizer are,
first, you have a transmitter.
Then you control the frequency
of the transmitter through different circuits.
Right, so back then
you're working with resistors and capacitors.
They act as parameters
to change frequencies
and other elements of sound.
It was just about adding and
removing these parts over and over.
For instance, there was an objet d'art
on the first floor here, right? A guitar.

Japanese: 
次に紹介するのも あなたが手がけた
別のゲームの音です
このゲームのキャラクターによって
任天堂の企業イメージは完全に変わりました
皆さん よくご存じですよね
あなたが任天堂で
２～３つ目に手がけたのが
マリオの歩行音を作ることでした
あなたの音
「ドンキーコング」は
それまでに担当したゲームと
何か違いましたか

English: 
Working with electronic parts results
in stuff like that. That's what I did.

English: 
In this game, I created the sounds of
Mario jumping, like "boiiing",
and the sound of Mario 
as he walks like this.
With older games, you'd have only one
sound effect, used over and over.
But if you listen to the
sound of Mario walking,
there are subtle variations.
Before, there was only one sound per action.
But by using the curve on the charge-
discharge of a capacitor, I tried
to change the sound according to
the timing of his steps.
It was just a matter of tinkering with the circuit,
but it was a challenge.
It's kind of cute, right?

Japanese: 
「ドンキーコング」や「マリオ」シリーズの
生みの親として
宮本茂さんが有名です

English: 
Kind of. We really didn't know.
We spoke of Miyamoto-san earlier.
Miyamoto-san... 
He was just so incredibly obsessive with
things. He was always like that.
Games were always on his mind.
From morning to night. Even on his days off.
It may have been a relatively simple game,
but he obsessed on a single dot
on one of his characters.
And on the game itself,

Japanese: 
そういう人たちと一緒にゲームを作っていて
ドンキーコングが
アメリカのゲームセンターで
爆発的なヒットを起こす引き金になると
思ってましたか
文化への衝撃を意識してました？

Japanese: 
すばらしいキャラクターを生み出した
気分は違いますか
他にもゲームのキャラクターはいましたが
「マリオ」や「ドンキーコング」は
シリーズ化されました
このイタリア人配管工には
特別な思い入れがあったんですか

English: 
he was really relentless.
That level of commitment taught me a lot.
No, it didn't. Not especially.
But for the princess in the game,
I tried using voice synthesis 
so the princess could say "Help!"
But Yamauchi-san's daughter happened
to be there one day,

English: 
and he asked her if it sounded like "help me"
and she said "no".
That was the end of it. 
I still remember the feeling...
I had never told anyone 
about this episode.
Yes. And...
I now remember. The circuits are a little different,
but Donkey Kong 3
was the first game that I did both the
hardware and programming myself. 
Donkey Kong 3 was the first software program
that I wrote on my own.

Japanese: 
面白い
これは「ドンキーコング３」です
このゲームの仕事を機に
効果音から初めてメロディを
作曲するようになりましたね

Japanese: 
任天堂の歴史においても
まさに注目すべき転換期です
これを機に次の段階へ進んだと
言えると思います
世界ではＮＥＳとして知られる
ファミコンですが
それを発売するようになって
会社や職場でのあなたの役割は
どう変わりましたか
全然変わらなかった？

English: 
Before that, I was exclusively into the hardware,
but for this one, I did both for the first time.
Well, young people now
may think that Nintendo was
a cool company, but in reality, 
for the first 3 to 5 years after
the Famicom came out,
or consoles similar to it, the
inside of the company didn't change at all.
Not one bit. They never seemed 
to care about the outside.

Japanese: 
任天堂でどんな１日を過ごしてたか
教えてください
普通のサラリーマンの業務と
変わらないんでしょうか
どんな１日でしたか
９時～朝の６時まで働いてた？

English: 
We didn't know how popular
the games were becoming.
All we did was create new software.
And a few years after the Famicom came out,
we began developing the Game Boy.
Everything just stayed the same.
From morning to night, we made new circuits
and developed software.
We had computers for work, but they were
TTY devices; they had no monitors.
Back and forth, morning to night.
Sometimes designing hardware,
and sometimes creating software.
Back and forth, for me at least.

Japanese: 
当時は１つのプロジェクトに
どれくらい時間をかけてましたか

English: 
I'd work from 9 AM to as late
as 2 or 3 in the morning.
They didn't make us do it. It was just fun.
We talk about the history of games, but for me
the history of computers and games overlap.
If anything, I think it was more of 
the history of the evolution of computers.
And believe it or not, I studied 
all about computers after I joined Nintendo.
I think our generation of
Nintendo employees were all the same.
We learned as we went,
built our own systems, and built them again.
For instance, we made our own development tools.
So everything was handmade.
It was really fun.

English: 
It took 6 months to a year 
to complete a game,
but when it comes to hardware, 
that's a different story.
I was working on 
sound hardware and software,
so it wasn't like working on a single project.
There was a continuous stream of new jobs,
and you'd go from one to the next.

Japanese: 
次に聴いてもらう音楽は
アーケードゲームから家庭ゲーム機の時代に
突入した時期に
あなたが作曲したものです
面白いことに この頃からあなたは
それまでに培ったエンジニアとしての技術に
音楽マニアの知識を取り入れ始めた
「レッキングクルー」です

Japanese: 
「レッキングクルー」でした
８bitサウンドに
少しでもなじみのある世代なら

English: 
It wasn't proactive on my part.
I was a music lover that happened to work for
Nintendo making music.
Compared to nowadays, the
Famicom had only 3 sound channels.
So in order to use them to the hilt,
we looked for ways

Japanese: 
この時期に出ていた多くのゲーム音楽は
とてもシンプルで
童謡のように聴こえたでしょう
そんなゲーム音楽が主流の時代に
田中さんはいきなり
ロックやレゲエ音楽のスタイルを
取り入れてきました
田中さん　ぜひ聞かせてください
ゲーム音楽に
どんなものを取り入れたかったんですか

English: 
to make them match the game, so you'd never 
get tired of hearing it over and over.
That was what I always had in mind
when it came to creating music.
And talking about reggae...
The reason I like reggae, especially dub,
is because, there actually is vocal
and guitar on it, let's say, but in the essence,
it's strictly driven by drums and bass.
That's what I love about it the most.
For instance, if you listen to the music,
you could recognize
that some parts are drum and bass only.
So that turned out to be an idea
for working around the limitations
in the game hardware.
I figured that, to get the most
out of the game music,
a dub-based structure would be
a really great solution.
I'd play the melody in some parts,
then cut it off
and insert a part with just drums and bass,
and vice versa.
No one else was doing it,
but it was what I wanted to do.

English: 
Let's see...
I think I like how there's
this raw aspect to it.
The gritty, raw quality
of the sound, let's say.
That really caught my ears.
And that deep bass sound, the "buuu..."
That was something I had never heard 
before in rock music.
It drove me like no other genre of music.

Japanese: 
すばらしいですね
それではジャマイカの音楽に夢中になった
きっかけは何ですか
いつ どのようにレゲエを好きに？
お持ちいただいたレコードから
ダブを聴きたいですね
会社員時代 平日は任天堂で働きながら
週末はレゲエやダブを聴きに行き
レコードを買い集めていた

Japanese: 
何というレコードですか
どの曲をかけましょう？
どこでこれを聴いたんですか
音量はいい？

English: 
This is probably the record where
I heard dub music for the first time.
It was when I was eating pasta at this
restaurant in Kyoto with live music.

Japanese: 
この曲でダブが好きになった？

English: 
It's great. I love it.

Japanese: 
特にダブのすごいところは？
どこがそれまでの音楽と違って
特に好きになったんですか

English: 
You know I said that I was having pasta
when I first heard it.
The part with the echo and delay came
on while my friend and I were eating.
We'd bring the pasta to our mouths,
then the echo would make us stop.
We both wondered what it was. 
So we asked the waiter about the music.
He told us that it's reggae. I was shocked.
What an encounter that was.
Something seemed to be lacking.
I first felt like the music was literally ill.
I thought "Is this music sick?" 
But the more I listened to it,

English: 
that groove with the bass line
and rhythm... I think the mixer
takes full control of it,
directly and instinctively.
When I felt it, I thought "This is amazing."
I was totally hooked.
No, my friends were still at Nintendo working
with soldering irons.
At night, I'd escape into this music world.

Japanese: 
田中さんは ほかの任天堂の社員と
違ってましたか
ライブハウスに行くような社員は
あなただけでした？
また別のゲーム音楽を
聴いてみましょう
1985年に発売されたゲームです
これもダブやレゲエ音楽が好きな
田中さんらしい作りで
その影響が見て取れるゲーム音楽に
なっています

Japanese: 
1985年発売の
「バルーンファイト」です

English: 
When I formed a reggae band a long time ago, 
there was this big music event in Osaka
called Reggae Sunsplash,
and my band happened to be onstage,
opening for Sly & Robbie. I met them there.
We also opened
for Reggae Sunsplash once,
and when Sly & Robbie came back,
we once again opened for them 
in a club in Osaka.
That's not the only reason,
but Sly's rhythm has always been cool to me.

Japanese: 
「バルーンファイト」でした
Sly & Robbieへの
オマージュということですが
Sly & Robbieとの出会いは？

Japanese: 
多くの人がその事実を知らないで
ゲームをやってるとはね
ファミコン音楽を作る過程について
話してください
技術的にも３つの音で構成する場合
１曲作るのにどのくらいかかるとか
どんな限界に直面したとか

English: 
Like I said earlier, I thought that 
the structure of reggae music
would work well with 
the concept of the Famicom.
So I wrote a piece
as an homage to reggae.
You probably wouldn't realize it.
Talking about composing music, 
there wasn't a setup like one today.
We didn't work with a sequencer
running on a computer;
we had to start by coding a
sequencer for the music,

English: 
then we filled it up with the
sounds that formed the music.
You had a max of 3 sound channels,
so it didn't take much time, but for example,
let's say we edited a square wave
and get it sound like kicks, going like this.
It probably took more time to come up
with that stuff in program format.
It's fun to do, though, and when I
did things like make it sound like Sly,
that'd make it even more fun.
That's how these songs came about.
This is quite embarrassing.
That was a long time ago.

Japanese: 
田中さんにお持ちいただいた写真を
お見せしましょう
いいですよね
この写真はどんな時のものでしょうか
間違えた

English: 
Yes. 
We made our own hats, called tams,
and braided our own hair
to make dreadlocks.
We played all over in Osaka and Tokyo.
We look so stupid.
Yeah.
No, I don't think so.
I doubt they'd understand the music.

Japanese: 
スライドショーの操作には慣れてないから
これです　これはあなたのバンド？
今でも不思議なんですが
あなたは朝から晩までーー
任天堂という厳しい会社で
根を詰めて働きながら
週末はこの帽子をかぶり
各地でライブをしてた
同僚が見に来たことは？

Japanese: 
ところで このバンドの名前は何ですか
なるほどね
では シャンプーズの曲を紹介しましょう
「Thumb de Dub」　何年の曲？

English: 
It was called "The Shampoos"
or "Roots Rockers".
It was back in the 80's.
It was 1985 or 1986.

Japanese: 
80年代の田中さんのバンドの曲でした
田中さん
かなり変わった二重生活ですよね
ミュージシャンとしての創作活動では
シャンプーズというバンド内で自由に
日本には新しい音楽を
作ることができました
自由な音楽の創作の場を持つ一方で
仕事では極端に制約を受けながら
音楽を作っていました

English: 
But it was all the same. 
As I said, my work on hardware
felt a lot like making music.
It was absolutely the same.
Yes. 
You were limited to 3 channels, so
there was a lot of trial and error.
For instance, you had
only 3 channels,
but if we ran them like high-speed arpeggios,
it would sound fuller. 
We came up with 
a lot of little tricks like that.

Japanese: 
こういうふうに言う人もいます
厳しい制約があるほうが意欲が湧くし
クリエイティブになると

English: 
This guy is a Jamaican melodica player
named Augustus Pablo.
He visited Japan years ago.
His drummer was named Horsemouth.
He was the drummer in the movie Rockers.
By the way, people in Kansai, in Osaka, 
are quite frank.
My friend used to call me "Hiro-katchan",
and they went like,
"Hiro-katchan, you're good at the melodica.
You should play at the gig."
We approached them at the concert,
but the staff stopped us and said
"Are you crazy?" We backed down,
but they let us take a photo, as you see here.
I got his autograph on my melodica.

Japanese: 
今 映し出されてる
この写真についてお聞きしたい
若い頃のかっこいい
あなたの写真ですよね
一緒に写ってるのは誰ですか

Japanese: 
Public Image Limitedというバンドからも
大きな影響を受けてます
特に元ベースのJah Wobble
彼らの曲も聴いてほしいのでは？
レコードかけますか
ＰｉＬは有名なバンドですが
知らない人のために
特にどこが好きか教えてください

English: 
It's like going to a U2 concert and saying
"I'm a great guitar player, let me play with you."
Track 11.
The band was formed by John Lydon,
who was in the Sex Pistols.
That was when punk was popular,
about the same time as reggae.
It was when I first got hooked on
Jah Wobble's bass performance.
I wondered what the "Jah" meant,

Japanese: 
ロンドンでもパンクとレゲエの
クロスオーバーがありましたが
日本でも同じようなことが？
11曲目をかけますか
曲名は？

English: 
and I found out it was something to do 
with reggae. I got really hooked.
So even in the Shampoos' song 
"Sound-a-dub"...
It does sounds like reggae, but somehow,
the feel and the groove, let's say,
came from something like Jah's style.
Anyway, whatever it is, 
It really wasn't a pure Jamaican groove.
The rhythm was reggae, but the groove
was obviously more from his unique style.
A lot of people liked it.
It may have not been a big number,
but there were a lot of people
into reggae and punk.
Track 11.
I forgot the title...

Japanese: 
「Death Disco」

Japanese: 
紹介してくれてありがとう
これが影響を受けた Jah Wobbleが
いた頃のＰｉＬですね

Japanese: 
シャンプーズのバンド活動では
メンバーとライブ演奏をしたり
アルバムを出したり ツアーに出たり
どんな活動を？
当時の東京と関西で
ミュージックシーンの違いは？

English: 
I mean, it's not just this song. 
There was a lot more.
It was a real obscure, local band.
We did gigs in Tokyo, like once or twice a year,
but it was never a formal thing.
Quite different.
People from all over Japan come to Tokyo.
Many come to Osaka too,
but Osaka was more like a local scene.

Japanese: 
では引き続き経歴を年代順にたどり
大阪のライブハウスから
任天堂の話に戻します
田中宏和という名前を
一躍有名にしたゲームとも言えるのが
「メトロイド」です
何年に出たゲームですか
85年か86年でしたね
86年だ

English: 
That was also the 80's. 1984 or 85.
Long time ago.

Japanese: 
「メトロイド」の
「小ボス部屋(Ⅰ)～クレイド」です
面白いことに
「メトロイド」というゲームで初めて
ゲーム音楽にメロディーがあり
音楽が耳に残る経験をした人が多い
映画のサウンドトラックのような
感覚で作られたーー
最初のゲーム音楽と言えます
どのように作った音楽ですか

Japanese: 
おっしゃるとおり
ゲームは複雑になってきても
こんな音楽を作る人はいませんでした
新しい発想だったのでは？

English: 
Like you said, the games were growing
more and more complex.
Gamers started to experience more of a story,
moving around bigger worlds.
The music was still 3-channel stuff,
but it was becoming more like a soundtrack.
More nuanced. It just so happened that
Metroid came out at that time.
Metroid was this adventure set
in an underground world.
I came up with my own interpretation,
and created some unique sounds
to set up the situations you
ran into. This is one of them.

English: 
No one at Nintendo liked the
Metroid soundtrack back then.
The music was all so dark; it wasn't well received.
No one really liked it.
Now, decades after I left the company,
people from all over the world say to me
"Metroid's music is awesome."
It makes me so happy.
Yes. No one said anything.
There's a lot of cues that have a melody
but don't sound like it.
I mean, what I wanted to do in Metroid was
not repeat the same game-melody cliches.

Japanese: 
社内で披露した時にも
驚かれませんでした？
自由に作曲してよかったのですか
“これは何だ？ ちょっと暗いぞ”
という反応だった？

English: 
I was trying to focus on a strong melody 
that came only at the very end of the game.
So if you play for 72 hours,
71 hours and 58 minutes of it would be so dark.
I wanted to create a rewarding moment 
in the very last minute of the game.
So overall, it was very dark.
Not all of it, though.
I added some subtle variations.
I made the game so that only when
you finished the game would you
experience the ultimate catharsis.
I was influenced by a movie I saw at the time.
It taught me that there are ways
to create cathartic experiences.
That's what I was shooting for when
I created the music for Metroid.
But once again, I had 3 channels,
and it was thoroughly dark, so...
What was it called...?

Japanese: 
何の映画ですか
「エイリアン」？

English: 
No.
I think it's called Birdy. I remember 
it was dark all the way throughout the film.
Or maybe that's 
how I thought at the time. 
In the end of the film, 
the protagonist jumps off a building.
It was such a dark film, but at the end,
someone says "Birdy" and a guy smiles.
That last moment of the film
really threw me, somehow.
It stayed with me. I'm not saying it was
a good film, but direction-wise...
I realized this was one way to go 
for an effect.
So I used it in a game I was working on
at the time.

Japanese: 
これも「メトロイド」で
「小ボス部屋(Ⅱ)～リドリー」

English: 
Oh, I see. Well...
I had total freedom 
on the projects I worked on.

Japanese: 
「小ボス部屋(Ⅱ)～リドリー」でした
社内の反応はよくなかったと
先ほどおっしゃいました
少し曲調が暗いと言われたと
このプロジェクトで
上司との関係はどうだったんでしょうか
チームで誰の承認に答える必要が？
自由にやりたいことをやれたんですか

English: 
But Nintendo was particularly strict on
how much "fun" each game delivers.
I remember getting a lot of criticism on
how "fun" the game was or not.
I don't think Metroid was that popular at the time.
It was unique, though.
It was like this arduous task that players
suffered through to see the ending.
I guess it wasn't like Mario, all
fun from start to finish.

Japanese: 
ネットが発達する前ならではですね
バンド活動で自分たちの音楽を作り
生のライブで演奏すれば
その音楽が好きか嫌いか
じかに反応が返ってきます
オフィスに何時間もこもり
ゲーム音楽を作って
世界に発信できても
その反応がひとつも返ってこない

English: 
I had no idea at the time.
No one at Nintendo knew
how the games were received overseas.
We never discussed how much
they were selling or anything like that.
We only focused on creating games
that we thought were fun.
I don't really want to say this, but
for Nintendo, there was nothing like that.
That's what it was. 

Japanese: 
面白いと思いませんか
１つのプロジェクトが終わると
達成感から
打ち上げをしたりするんですか
それとも次のプロジェクトに
さっさと移るだけなんですか

English: 
They'd tell us to buy our
own copies of the games we created.
In Osaka dialect, they'd say, 
"Go buy it for yourself!"
It made me very happy.
You know I have to convince myself 
before I let anyone check it out.
If that's not the case, I wouldn't put
it in the game. So talking about Metroid,
the feel of the ending was everything to me.
That's what that song was meant to be.
So when I heard people were moved by it,
I wanted to yell

Japanese: 
「メトロイド」については
先ほども触れたように
とても影響力のあるゲーム音楽と
言われているのに
それを知ったのが20年後とは
どういう気分ですか
すっかり忘れた頃に
世界に影響を与えた音楽という
記事を読んで

English: 
"Yes! I did it!" 

Japanese: 
なるほどね
また別の作品を流します
「ドクターマリオ」という有名なゲームのーー
「FEVER」という曲です

English: 
So this was basically a
falling-block game.
When you play a game, you start to
feel psychological effects.
There are times when things are going well
and you feel good, and times 
when you feel anxiety and dread.
I wanted to heighten those feelings

Japanese: 
「ドクターマリオ」の「FEVER」でした
この音楽の狙いを覚えてますか
ほかの曲とは かなり曲調が違います

English: 
by incorporating different elements 
into the music.
With this piece, It wasn't my intent
to write it with my usual plan.
It was calculated to have "fun" parts
and "looming dread"-type parts.
I wrote it thinking someone would feel
all those things at certain times.
Another thing I wanted to do was...
As time went on and games
started to evolve more,
the industry started to see
really serious composers,
music-school grads and so on.
So I had to think of something different.
Like with musical pitch or modulations...
Something unusual, or different.
I did that intentionally,
For example, each measure of a music
has 4 beats, and you usually put an
accent into the second and fourth beat,

Japanese: 
ゲームをしている人の立場に
どのくらい立って
ゲーム音楽を作っているのでしょうか
意識してますか
音楽を作る時に把握している情報は？

English: 
Meanwhile I'd put a bar in a shorter
or an unusual beat.
It was the first time I asserted
my musical personality in programming.
I focused on the quality of
the game rather than the player.
Whether the music fit the content.
In terms of Dr. Mario,
the theme was you against the viruses,
so that's what I had in mind.
I wanted to make it a cute game.
It's not an ominous one, really.
So I wrote and put a cute melody in.

Japanese: 
完成したゲームがあって
作曲してるんですか
それともイメージや概要だけで
曲作りをするんでしょうか
当時の任天堂が年間に出す
ゲーム数は？
何本ぐらいに携わりました？

English: 
It varied by project, but in my case,
I had a say in the game's content as well.
So I wasn't just writing the music.
I wrote the score and played the game.
Then I'd tell the director "This feels
weird" and give my input on the content.
I don't know about that.
Maybe two at a time, I think.
Maybe 2 or 3 games in 3 years?
In the Famicom days, yeah.

Japanese: 
これから流す音楽は
意見が分かれるでしょう
大好きだと言う人と大嫌いだと言う人にね
じれったくてストレスがたまる音楽だと
言う人もいます
この「テトリス」の音楽も
田中さんの作品です

Japanese: 
田中宏和さんの「テトリス」でした
この曲を聴いて
どんなことを思い出します？
冒頭でも触れたように

English: 
It was an original game
made for the Nintendo Game Boy.
I tried not to think about composing. 
My sense of Tetris came from seeing it
run on Apple computers originally.
My image was Tetris on the Mac,
and I wanted to maintain that image.
But I continuously added 
my own ideas into it, too.
For instance, when you score a Tetris,
you'd hear this sound like
a goat bleating.
I still love that. Not
that it matters much.

Japanese: 
ゲームボーイのサウンドチップは
あなたが開発しました
実際に開発に携わっていた
知識があるからこそ
いい音楽が作れるのでしょうか
あなたの作るゲーム音楽の多くは
ほかの人のと違って
とても複雑で異質な曲に思えるからです

English: 
No, I don't think so.
It was more like,
I wanted to share what the Game Boy sound,
the source of it, was about. 
Before I left Nintendo, I made
a product called the Game Boy Camera.
I was making a sequencer for it.
That was the first time

Japanese: 
「ポケットカメラ」も開発したという
興味深い話が出ました
音楽やエンジニアを担当するだけでなく
「ポケットカメラ」を作った
その装置の開発にあたり
どのように関わったんですか

English: 
I really got down to the metal with
the Game Boy's sound capability.
For me, it was like I was
revealing to everyone
through this sequencer how
to make this thing play music.
Rather than showing what I could do,
I wanted to share with others
how much fun it could be. That's why 
I put a sequencer in the Pocket Camera.
There's a lot about Game Boy Camera
development I can't talk about...
But at the time,

English: 
there was a product called a View-Cam
you could connect to your PC.
It was pretty popular at the time.
I wondered if you could hook up a
camera to your Game Boy instead.
Also, I was curious about 
if you could watch TV on a Game Boy,
and I actually did a bunch of tests.
I thought that might work,
so I tried to combine the two together.
At the time, everyone thought of Nintendo
as a game company.
But all throughout,
I truly believed that Nintendo
was a company providing products 
that entertain people.
It was an entertainment company.
So as for me,
I can't create a game like Mario or Zelda,
but maybe I could make something like a toy
that everyone could enjoy.
That's how I started working on 
the Game Boy Camera.

English: 
People often ask me that. I don't think
it was amazing or anything, but I often
reflect on what went right with it.
In society, people complete a lot to
join certain companies, right?
You have this intense competition
in order to earn a spot.
Same for products. You compete to see
whose games sell more.

Japanese: 
少し前に触れたかと思いますが
任天堂を辞める決意をしましたね
任天堂時代をどう思いますか
新しい物を生み出して
すごい仕事をしてると感じてましたか
文化に影響を与えるような仕事ができて
恵まれてたと思いましたか
それとも普通の仕事だという認識でしょうか

English: 
When I joined Nintendo,
there was no competition at all.
There were no sales quotas for
the games we were creating.
So for the 20 years I worked for Nintendo, 
I didn't compete with anyone.
I just did my own thing.
I didn't always get to do what I wanted,
but I always thought about what would 
entertain people via games.
I think it was better that way.
It was just by chance.
I wasn't chosen out of a pool of candidates.
There was a sense of freedom
and laissez-faire at Nintendo.
Maybe it was Yamauchi-san's intention,
but I never had trouble with budgets.
We felt no financial pressure.
We were free to do whatever we wanted.

Japanese: 
残念ながら２年前…
去年の2013年か その前年に
前社長の山内さんが亡くなりました
大衆文化に多大な影響を与えた人物です
世界中にゲーム世代を作り出しました
山内前社長の思い出はありますか
彼が会社に残したものは何でしょうか

English: 
I only ever saw him as
president of Nintendo.
I don't know how he really was 
when he wasn't at work.
He was scary, but he had a
real charming smile, too.
He really was cute when he smiled.
But he constantly nagged at me.
I'd be working on something, and
he'd pop up behind me and say

English: 
"I hate this color. Why would you
use a color I hate?" He was really picky. 
But I really liked Yamauchi-san.
But that gap...
I can't explain it,
but there was faith in him.
He had a soul. I truly felt that.
Seattle, yes.
No, I've never been.
The Slits. I love the Slits.
The freedom of their music.
It feels so free.

Japanese: 
野球好きで
大リーグ球団のオーナーになったことも
招待券はもらえました？
今日 多くのレコードを
持ってきてもらったのは
影響を受けた曲を紹介するためです
これはThe Slitsですね
どこが好きですか

English: 
Should I play it?
Never.
I'd love to, though.

Japanese: 
聴きましょう
社内のパーティで
ＤＪをやったりしたことは？

English: 
I have, but not recently because
My eyes are getting old.
I can't even see the little lever.
I'd have to keep changing glasses.

Japanese: 
田中宏和さんが影響を受けた
The Slitsでした
いい曲ですね
ＤＪをやったことは？
ここで実演してもらい
皆さんを驚かすという演出も
面白そうですね
でも あなたの経歴を知っている人には
次のゲーム作品の話を聞かないと
怒られます
任天堂で手がけた最後の作品になります
世界的に熱狂的なファンを持つ
「MOTHER」と「MOTHER2」です

Japanese: 
アーケードゲームの音楽に始まり
８bitサウンド時代を生きて
16bitの時代が来ると
引退する形になりました
スーパーファミコンゲーム「MOTHER2」

Japanese: 
田中宏和作「MOTHER2」でした
アメリカでは「Earthbound」です
ゲーム自体も世界中で
カルト的な人気を誇りますが
音楽もすばらしい
別のゲーム音楽の作曲家と
話す機会があり
有名な植松伸夫さんから
このように聞きました

English: 
The biggest change was that
we had more sound channels.
In the Famicom age,
it sounded more like "game" music.
We had to be inventive.
But with more channels available,
it became more like composing music.
As you can tell by what you just heard,
there was more freedom to insert
music that you liked, or that really fit
the game, so it was a lot of fun.

Japanese: 
８bitと16bitの違いは
白黒テレビから急にカラーテレビに
変わったようなものだと
16bitへの変化を
どのように感じましたか
作曲家として可能になった部分は？
16bitで音楽を作る時に
頭の中で想像してる音楽は
普通のバンド演奏の音楽なんですか

Japanese: 
それとも最初からファミコンの音で
聴こえてるんですか
８bit時代のゲーム音楽なら
トラック数はせいぜい
３～４つぐらいでしたよね

English: 
Well...
Games have stories behind them.
EarthBound, for example.
I had to compose music to fit the story.
I wasn't as limited by hardware.
It was about composing and staging music
as part of the game's story.
EarthBound was a game with 
a contemporary drama.
I couldn't create music that 
I'd never heard before,
so there were influences
from rock, or pop,
or even world music.
I littered that throughout the score.

Japanese: 
40秒ほどのメロディで
しかし16bitで「MOTHER」を作れば
トラック数は10倍に増えるでしょう
メモリーも大きくなってきたので
16bit時代には
40～50曲作らないといけません
特に「MOTHER」のようなーー
ロールプレイ型のゲームは

English: 
Still, with the Super Famicom,
the capacity was pretty limited.
We were free, but we weren't.
So it was the same as the Famicom days.
How to produce the richest sound from
a limited amount of channels.
Keeping the quality was a challenge.

Japanese: 
こういう状態に陥ることがあります
例えばプレイヤーが
マップ画面をさまよい続ける
すぐに終わってしまう
アーケードゲームと違ってね
ゲームのスタイルにもよりますが
長い間 画面を動き回っているだけだと
同じ曲を延々と聴くことになります
だから意識的に
ユーザーが飽きない曲を考えますか

English: 
Yes.
When you create game music,
you don't just compose.
You have to play the game for yourself,
and when you're stuck at some point,
you have to decide how loud the music should be.
Or when you jump
into another realm, how to change the music.
You have to keep playing.

English: 
It was "write while we play".
It may not be efficient, but that's how we did it.
Game by game.

Japanese: 
ゲームのスタイルによって
曲作りを変えますか
パズル ロールプレイング
プラットフォームゲームなど
ゲームごとに違いますか
最近の仕事について
ぜひとも伺いたいと思います
田中さんは長年務めた任天堂を
退社しましたが
面白い環境で仕事をされてます
任天堂にはマリオとは別の
新しいキャラクターが生まれ
大衆文化に大きな影響を与えているからです
「ポケモン」との関係は？

English: 
Oh, yes.
I was still at Nintendo when a game
called Pokemon came out.
They were going to adapt the game
into an anime and a film,
and someone asked me to write the
theme for it, so I agreed.
I never dreamed that Pokemon
would become such a hit.
I think I just got lucky.
It was a huge hit. I was surprised.
Yes.
No. Usually companies don't let
you work side jobs like that.
So when I got involved with Pokemon,

Japanese: 
ヒットしたことで
その後も継続して依頼が？
任天堂に言われたんですか
“社員なのに
なぜポケモンの音楽を？”

Japanese: 
すべてに関わってきたわけですね
ポケモンの関連商品は多いですが
あなたの会社では
どんなものを作ってるんでしょうか
今は社長として会社を経営されていますが
あなたの経営する会社は

English: 
I got some revenue. It was that simple.
That wasn't the only reason, 
but I left Nintendo and I was a free man.
A one-man show. 
The one thing I've constantly been
doing at my company, Creatures,
is making new designs for Pokemon cards.
We also make Pokemon titles for
the Wii U and so on, not the Game Boy.

English: 
It was five years ago.
Maybe four or five years ago.
I guy I know overseas said
"Why not add a C in front of your name?"
As in chiptunes.
I thought "He's right."
Hip Tanaka is a name from my Nintendo days,
so it's not that easy to use.
But add a "C" in front of it,
and it's a totally different name. I liked it.
What was that?

Japanese: 
巨大なポケモン帝国の
重要な柱となっています
大きくて重要な会社ですが
週末には こんな音楽を作っていますね
これは Chip Tanakaの名義で出した
最新作です
Hip Tanakaから改名？
Chip Tanakaの最新作ですね
今年作ったばかりの曲です

Japanese: 
Chip Tanakaの最新作でした
最近 影響を受けてるのは？
今はどんなアーティストを聴きますか

English: 
I've always liked reggae and punk.
It's always been
with the raw sound.
Music that makes me feel like this.

Japanese: 
最近のクラブ音楽とかで
刺激を受ける人とかいたら
ぜひ名前を挙げてください
Chip Tanakaは週末は日本のどこで
演奏していますか

English: 
I love the beat music or bass music
that plays at the clubs.
I'm attracted to that kind of music,
and it's what I listen to.
It reminds me of my Chip Tanaka
days on the Famicom.
That was an original sampling of
Famicom sounds, scattered all over.
It's dance music, like in the clubs.
The kind with the heavy bass.
These days, I set up my Ableton Live
and play it at clubs and such.
There are too many to remember.
Not all over Japan, but a few times a year.

English: 
Younger people kindly call upon me.
I don't like to talk about my age,
but I am getting old.
When I go to clubs,
I'm probably the oldest one there.
I can't keep up physically,
so around 2 or 3 gigs a year.
But it's super fun.
Especially at big venues.
The 13th of next month.

Japanese: 
うれしいことに
これが２回目だそうですが
Wombのゲーム音楽イベントで
演奏しますね
そろそろ会場の質問を
受ける時間ですね
その前に35年以上に及ぶ
あなたのキャリアを振り返ると
あなたの音楽は今も残っていて

English: 
I don't really know.
But humans are emotional beings.
Someone asked why
I like Jah Wobble or the Slits.
It's not that I like 80's artists.
There are lots of artists I've followed.
All have different sounds, but they all move me,
and I only have one soul.
But with every song,
I wonder what draws me to it.
So when I'm asked to compose something,

Japanese: 
あの時代の曲を愛する人たちは
今も世界中にいます
同業者が作った音楽も含めてね
８bitの時代に作られた音楽が
かくも独特な存在として
今も生き残り これからも生き続けるのを
どう思われますか

Japanese: 
ありがとう
質問のある方はいますか
伺いたいのは 昔やっていた
シャンプーズというバンドは
アナログバンドですよね
でも仕事のコンピューター音楽には

English: 
when I make this club-type of music,
I wonder why people like it.
Music is important because
it gives us a glimpse of the future.
It lifts you up and gives you a glimpse of
what the future may look like.
What makes that happen?
It's not purely intellectual. It's both.
It's both mind and body.
That's what I've been doing, I guess.

English: 
Personally, the more restrictions there are,
the more creatively motivated I become.
Many people ask me 
what kind of music I want to create.
When I think about it,
I can't put my finger on it.
Right now, I like club music that makes
you want to dance.

Japanese: 
当時まだ多くの制約がありました
制約のある機械が相手で
仕事をしていてフラストレーションは
たまりませんでしたか
そういう制約をむしろーー
曲作りの刺激剤にしてたんですか

Japanese: 
ありがとうございました
あなたの最新作の音楽について
質問させてください
８bitのサウンドを
どのように組み込んだんですか
ゲーム音楽と同じ手法ですか
それとも新しい手法ですか
Abletonのソフトなどを使って？

English: 
You can listen to it, of course,
but it's really made for dancing.
The more restrictions you place on me,
the more creative I get to be.
Does that answer your question? 

English: 
I use the Ableton Live software
only for live music.
I use it only for the stage.
When I compose, I still use Logic.
I still feel like I'm making
music for Famicom games.
I just split it up into pieces and play it live.
Both. What I'm recalling lately
is that, 20 or 30 years ago,
playing an instrument,
or mastering it,
was one measurement
of musical value. But more recently,
even if you can't play an instrument,
you can still make music.

Japanese: 
キーボードで作曲するんですか

Japanese: 
新しい音楽のために
ファミコンの音楽などから
サンプリングしてるとか
当時の音楽を
サンプリングするということは
ご自身で作った音楽なども
入ってるんですか

English: 
In fact, there are more musicians
who don't play an instrument.
So, as for me, for instance,
regarding Pokemon music,
and music for anime or film,
I compose while thinking how to express myself
without being able to play an instrument.
So when I'm playing at a club,
I focus on feeling as if
I'm actually composing music.
I challenge myself by making music that way.

English: 
When I say "sampling",
I'm not sampling the music itself,
but rather individual sounds, 
like this beep sound.
I try to sample sounds
that are close to the originals
that I created in the Famicom days.
With the Game Boy, I don't take from
the games themselves. For instance,
I make my own sounds using
the Game Boy Camera sequencer
and sample them in great detail.

Japanese: 
どういう考えでサンプリングしてますか
どうも

Japanese: 
クラブに行ったら
自分が最年長だと言ってましたね
長年クラブシーンで
いろんな音楽に触れていて
日本でクラブに行き始めた頃と今とで
一番の違いは何ですか
今は失われて懐かしく思う部分はありますか

English: 
Nowadays, everyone dances like this.
Back in the day, people danced hard,
not holding things like this.
Nowadays, people dance while
looking at gadgets like this. 

English: 
But as far as enjoying music goes,
it's still the same.
However, in Japan,
there's the Entertainment Business Act
that has placed strict limitations
on business hours. That was big.
Music and sound varies by where you hear it,
and what time you hear it...
I think it makes a big difference.
For instance,
I think music you hear at 2 AM and 4 AM
may be totally different.
Restricting time like that is very unfortunate.
In the past, we could dance to music freely,
from morning to night.
For young people,
aside from the fact that parents always worry,
if you remove that element...
If you're really going to appreciate music,
you should be able to listen to it wherever
and whenever you want to.

English: 
No. I'd love to, but no.
I don't work with an agent.
I work as an individual.
I do it purely as a hobby.
I compose music for a living,
but I work on club-type music in my spare time,
like 10 minutes before breakfast.
Literally 5 or 10 minutes.

Japanese: 
クラブ音楽の影響について
触れていましたが
誰かとコラボするつもりとかはないですか
その手の人たちとのつながりは
ないんでしょうか

English: 
I come home from my company and work on
it for 2 hours before bedtime.
But I would love to do something like that.
I wonder...
Making games is kind of like making movies.

Japanese: 
進化するゲーム音楽は
どうなるんでしょうか
音楽に合わせて踊るゲーム
「DanceDanceRevolution」とか
実際に演奏する音楽ゲーム
「Rock Band」とか
大勢の前でＤＪをやれる
ソフトもあります
ゲーム音楽のパイオニアとして
今後どうなっていくと思いますか

English: 
I don't make game music anymore,
so I can't really speak to it.
But it's getting closer to filmmaking.
That's about it.
I don't know how it's going to evolve.
But at some point,
there are instruments now,
and DJ software and things like that,
which basically make music for you.
They create sound effects on their own.
I thought games would evolve like that, too.
I had hoped they would.
But I haven't seen that kind of trend.
I wished that it would evolve more
in the realm of sound.
For sound creation to evolve more.
Like, sounds created automatically.
I thought that would be fun,
even while I was still creating games.

English: 
One idea that I was working on
quite passionately towards the end
was a program that made its
own music without any human input.
It would automatically make music
to match a scene in a game.
In the end, I gave up.
It never came to fruition.
Personally, I would like to see that happen.
I go to E3 every year and
see all kinds of games,

Japanese: 
最近のゲーム音楽も
チェックしているんでしょうか
最近のゲームに使われる音楽を
どう思いますか？
昔との比較や今の可能性について
聞かせてください

English: 
but the amount of time I spend
playing at home is on the decline.
I couldn't comment on games
at this point where I am now.
Is that OK?
I guess I don't really know.
But the realism of the
visuals and sound effects
are completely different from my day,
and I think that's amazing. 
Are we done?
Thank you.

Japanese: 
大丈夫
すばらしいレコードを
お持ちいただいたので
最後に何か１曲かけてもらいましょう
何でもいいですよ
最後に心からお礼を申し上げます
ありがとうございました
