- Well, welcome everybody.
My name is John
and that other guy in the
screen is named Arthur.
And we are both old men, we're
told we don't feel that way.
And this is two old men
talking about baseball.
I wanna thank the team
that has put this together
technically
and the alumni team that
came up with the idea
cause this is a great way to
be spending time this week
in particular, I'll get
to that in a few minutes.
And I wanna thank Arthur
who is really going above
and beyond.
I think many of you know that
Arthur is not only a mentor
to me
and a revered colleague in my field
and a coauthor.
But it was in his class
in the fall of 1975
that I met the most magnificent person
that has ever entered my
life, Lisa Ellen Goldberg.
We were married very quickly, two months
and more in love every
day right down to now.
There's a way in which he's
the background of that as well
as virtually everything
that's happened in my career.
It's an honor.
But we're also united by the
fact that we're just good
friends.
And one of the things that
we enjoy most is going to
baseball games together.
That is part of how I got him
to leave Harvard Law School
to come to NYU.
We'll get to that story probably.
- Note, the only way.
(laughs)
- That's good.
There was an attraction, I
mean, it should be noted that
for example, Linda Silberman
is a great plot of the Arthur
Miller family as are many
others on the NYU faculty
and he's was loved at NYU.
But if he says, it's the only
way, maybe that was the story.
And we'll get to those stories.
I wanna thank literally the
hundreds of you who have
signed up for today
and these are strange times, aren't they?
We wish we could be there
with you in Tishman auditorium
but we're not.
We're here in this new form.
And we also wanna thank the
dozens of you that sent in
questions.
I've taken the Liberty of...
I'm the junior partner
if you haven't guessed,
I'm that pawn
and he's the King.
But I've organized the questions,
we'll get through as many
of them as possible.
But we have some preliminaries to do
because we want you to know a
little bit about why we would
be two old men occupying your
time at noon in the midst of
all of this.
Arthur, I'm gonna take the liberty of...
Since you're the sage
here, I wanna start you off
with giving people a sense of the Arthur
that they don't know.
Your name is Arthur Miller.
Where did you grow up
and where did you go to school?
Elementary school.
And just tell us the story
before you even get to baseball
set the scene of the neighborhood
and the family
and the school
and things of that sort.
Cause people don't know that about you.
- I'm a product of
Brighton Beach, Brooklyn.
Lower middle class area,
basically Immigrants P.S. 225,
which was across the street
from one of those classic six
story apartment buildings.
I went to Abraham Lincoln High School.
And I realized on arriving
that another guy named
Arthur Miller had gone to
Abraham Lincoln High School
because Death of a
Salesman had just opened on
Broadway.
And Arthur Miller was the
toast of Abraham Lincoln High
School.
- You were the other Arthur Miller?.
- I have always been
the other Arthur Miller.
And indeed sadly when he passed away
cause I think he was a great writer.
I remember standing at
LaGuardia Airport, I was then in
television.
I had facial recognitions
and somebody came rushing up
to me in the checking line
saying...
He grabbed me by the shoulders
and said, "I'm so glad you didn't die."
(laughs)
You stuck with me for life.
- Before you leave that,
did you ever meet him?
- I met him once at Abraham
Lincoln High School reunion
function.
He was a very austere man
with no sense of humor.
And indeed there came a time
when he threatened to sue me
because I had used the name Arthur Miller
and that was a--
- Bring your civil procedure case book.
(laughs)
- Wow, that's my upbringing.
Well, I was just a kid in
Brighton Beach, a block off the
beach, the ocean.
- And what today is little Russia.
- And what today is little Russia.
The signs are in Russian.
The old restaurants are now Russian
but visually, the area
looks exactly as it did
when I grew up.
- When did baseball enter your life?
What's your earliest baseball memory?
- Walking on the grade
boardwalk between Brighton Beach
and Coney Island with my dad.
If I had been a good boy my dad would say,
let's go to Nathan's
and get a hot dog
and some french fries.
And it was the fall,
a hot lake summer day.
And we're walking on the boardwalk
and keep in mind back then
there was no air conditioning.
All the windows in the
buildings adjacent to the
boardwalk were open
and there was no television.
What you had was a communal radio sound,
and as it turned out, it
was World Series time.
And I kept hearing the
name of the DiMaggio.
And when I asked my dad, what's a DiMaggio
my dad who was actually
a New York Giants fan,
described DiMaggio with such
enthusiasm that I became a
DiMaggio
and derivatively a Yankee fan.
And my good old dad on
a Sunday, we'd wake up,
get on the Brighton Beach
express as it was called then
and go from Brighton Beach
up to Yankee Stadium.
- Could be an hour and a half.
- An hour and a half.
And I'd insist we go for batting practice,
which was open in those
days for an artifact
a true doubleheader, two
games for the price of one.
We'd pay a buck-and-a-quarter.
If my dad felt flush
we'd buy Bucks 75 seats
and we wouldn't get home 10:30 at night.
I'll never forget him
doing that as I became more
and more of a Yankee fan.
- Now, you brought me to a
place where I just want you to
reflect on this
and people should know we
haven't rehearsed this at all.
And I'm going now to a place
where as close as we are,
and I've gone through more
than 40 years with you.
I don't know what the answer to this is,
but I know in my own life,
my father died when I was 16,
but I know in my own life, a major way,
maybe the major way that I
got to know my father as a
person was through talking about baseball.
Other conversations would
developed from that.
Was that the case with you
and your father?
I mean, I grew up as a
Catholic, you grew up Jewish
maybe the dynamic was different.
Did you
and your father...
Were you close?
Did you talk?
Did you talk through baseball?
Did baseball play a role
in that part of your life?
- It did, John.
Those were the days when
New York had three teams
the Brooklyn Dodgers, the New York Giants,
and the New York Yankees, my
dad being the Giant's fan.
I'd occasionally do him a favor
and agree to go with him to Ebbets Field
to watch one of the greatest
rivalries in baseball back then
was that Brooklyn Dodger
and New York Giant game.
We always talked about it.
And there isn't the time
when I'm in the stadium
whether it's the original
stadium, the renovated stadium
or the new stadium that I don't spend
at least a half minute
or so, looking across to where my father
and I sat in 1941 when we
used to go to those games.
Baseball was it, there was
no other sport back then.
- But it's also a time I'm
trying to let our younger
participants know that
there wasn't as much easy
conversation between parents
and children.
And this gave a vehicle for conversation.
At least for me, my father
and I had a routine where
after I delivered my papers
early in the morning,
but before I went to serve
mass at the 6:30 mass,
we would sit usually about between 5:30
and six
and go over the bucks scores
from the night before.
And these are deep memories
that affect a bond for me,
at least.
Was there something similar for you?
- Yeah, we would go
over the sports section
of the New York Times, which in those days
it was the sports section.
- I was delivering a
lawyer I would press, man.
We really couldn't afford
the New York Times.
(laughs)
- No, these are precious memories.
- Did you play ball?
- Yeah.
I played baseball.
I was a first baseman,
I was a little heavy.
Didn't have much of an arm.
The outfield was out of question.
Shortstop was a dream beyond any hope.
First basement for a slightly
overweight right-handed
player, that was leftover
for somebody like me.
- And when you say you played,
I mean, were these pick-up
games
or did you play...
Was there a Little League
cause you're much older than I.
By the time I got around
there was Little League.
Was there Little League for you
or were you good enough to
play American Legion Ball?
- In a sense it was
partially pick-up, we had 18.
Back in those days, your buddies
and you had a team.
We were the Bullets, we had jackets.
And indeed I was beaten within
an inch of my life on the
boardwalk one night
because a player on our team
was trying to date somebody
like tagging extraction from Coney Island.
It was West side story.
We would play against comparable teams.
We would play a little a semi-pro in a way
out in Jones Beach.
I lost part of a long at 16.
I knew I would never
make it to the majors.
And then I receded into softball.
- Who was your favorite player
when you were growing up?
- Well, it had to be DiMaggio.
- It's DiMaggio.
- I've always been a DiMaggio
and mind you that was an era
when the Yankee outfield,
just for the youngsters in
the audience to that take them
back the Yankee outfield was
left field was Charlie Keller
nickname, King Kong,
because he had certain semi
and like qualities.
Right field was Tommy
Henrich who was reliable
because he was a clutch hitter.
And in center field was the great one,
the man of enormous grace
and talent, Joltin Joe DiMaggio.
And sadly after he died some
negative books came about Joe,
but I won't give him up.
- Of course, Santiago in
Hemingway's the old man in the sea
says to the boy, I'd like
to go fishing with DiMaggio
someday.
His father was a fisherman.
And he came out of that great
San Francisco background,
which of course is a
whole different story.
Just before we leave your
youth on this, one game
that stands out from your
that your time as a fan before
you went off to college at Rochester.
- A game, as opposed to
a law story about a game.
- Whatever you want, a game.
- It's 1941
or 1942.
I wonder how many of our
participants were alive in '41
or '42?
- Let the record show I was not yet born.
- I don't think war had broken
out, it would have been 41.
And the Yankees were playing the Red Sox
which was a rivalry way back then.
And of course I'm at
Yankee Stadium full house.
And that was a time when Yankee
Stadium held 70,000 people.
That's when Monument Park was in plane.
And that meant it was really
DiMaggio versus Williams.
The great rivalry, Yankee
fans hated Williams,
Red Sox fans hated the DiMaggio.
And for nine innings, the
Yankee fans were riding Williams
unmercifully, Williams was
not a very good fielder.
The ball would come around the fence
and very often go right past them.
And boy, Yankee fans went wild
when he didn't pick it up.
I have a fondest of memory
for the day Joe looked better
than Ted.
- One of the questions that
came in, I'm just gonna pull
this out of order.
Was, do you think anybody
will ever hit 400 again?
Ted Williams of course being
the last person to do it?
- I think the way the game is
played today, very unlikely
can't say never
but I doubt it.
- I'm gonna push you on that
cause I don't understand what
that has to do with the way
the game is played today.
We're talking about batting
average, not home runs
or whatever
or things that are affected
by the fact that they rotate
players.
It's just a matter of can a
guy hit four times out of 10
and get over the required number of it.
But I'm not sure, give me a better reason.
- A better reason giving you a--
- Well, explain your reason.
- Part of it is, when it's
tilted, I think a bit toward
pitching.
I think the pitching is
stronger, nobody was throwing 100
miles an hour back then.
- And it's a specialty pitcher.
- I also think the prevalence
of night games over day games
has an effect on vision.
In the 400 era, when you
think of players like August
Sizzler, who hit 420.
Or Ty Cobb who hit over 400, three
or four times.
Or one of my favorite
ballplayers Napoleon Lajoie
who hit 426, one year.
They were spray hitters.
That was an era in which
the single was prize.
Today, the home run is prize.
The strikeout is much more common.
And I think going for the fences
reduces your ability to get
those placed hits which
affects batting average.
- I'm glad I asked the follow-up
cause you've given a much better answer.
Now let's say a little push
sometimes helps from a coauthor.
(laughs)
Speaking of a little push now
I'm gonna fit best forward.
And it's I came to NYU in 1981.
And the reason I came to
NYU was because of you.
Because the very first
person that I met from NYU
before I started clerking
or anything else I met because of you.
And that was Linda Silberman.
And she began to talk to
me about coming to NYU
and you began to push it.
It just felt good to
me from the beginning.
And I fell in love with it.
And of course Linda
and I wanted you to at NYU.
And then I became dean in '88
and almost immediately started
asking you to leave Harvard,
to come down, to be with us.
And finally I hit upon this
formula of inviting you
to the Yankee games.
Tell folks the very first
Yankee game I took you to.
- That's one you delight in John
because that's something special.
- Well, how many years had it been?
Just help me set it up.
How many years had it been,
since you'd been in Yankee
Stadium with your dad.
Or with anybody else.
- 25, at least 25.
One time it was in Harvard.
- People get the picture
that it's 25 years
since he's been at Yankee Stadium
and I enticed him down with
a promise that if he comes
to NYU, I'll take him to a
minimum four games a year.
And it's playoff time
and we'd go to our first game.
And it's a playoff game
and it ends in a walk-off
home run, which happened
very rarely in the
history of the Playbooks.
And there was a group of us
that shared seats together
and people said to me, "You
gotta bring the people."
By the way, even the
ushers would refer to him
because of he was Good
Morning America at the time
as the law man.
They would say, bring the
law man again, bring the law.
I brought into a second
game a few games later
and it was another walk-off home run.
The first two games you
were back in the stadium,
playoff games, both ended
in walk-off home runs.
It was like the reuniting had occurred.
This is part of the karma
that brought him here.
Now we're about 20 minutes into this
and everybody's wondering as I am whether
or not you're actually
there with that background
or whether that's one of
these fabricated backgrounds.
I know it's not a fabricated background.
Tell the people a story
about what's behind you.
- What's behind the are baseballs
and they are real baseballs.
I collect baseballs.
It's part of the fact that--
- Just baseballs
or signed baseballs?
- Signed baseballs, every
baseball that you see
in the background.
And there are a hell of a lot
more of them are single signed
baseballs.
- Just one player?
- One player.
And over on this side,
I have Hall of Famous.
I have a Ty Cobb.
- This is room in your house?
- Yes.
- I'm down in the lower level.
And I just thought it would
be nice to be here with you
and these baseballs.
- If you had to pick a favorite
of all of the baseballs
that you have, what would that be?
- Oh, that's tough.
That's really tough.
My birth year was '34
and the Yankees did a
tour of Japan in 1934.
It's very famous indeed
it's part of history.
And I have a ball signed by
the team that went to Tokyo
to play with the--
- Timeout.
You said they were all single signed?
- Yes.
This one is a little different.
Oh, I'm sorry John, on this
side, our Yankee team balls.
I have the team ball from
1927 all the way through 2014.
- Wow.
What's happened since 2014,
you've been a sleep with the
quest.
- That's funny
because the players
have given the rights to
signing baseball to I think
Steiner, they don't get together
to sign balls together.
They signed them individually,
like that year, Derek Jeter
didn't go to the All Star-Game
to stay home (mumbles)
it's in their contract.
I haven't been able to find a 2014 ball
or a 2016 ball
or a 2017 ball
or a 2018 ball.
- You see now here, this is why
people are gonna be grateful
that a person that is as
unconscionable as I am
and knows you so well is
doing an interview with you.
Cause I'm gonna ask the
question that everybody's
wondering about
but nobody else would ask in
a public setting like this.
What's the most you've
ever paid for a baseball?
- Almost as much as you
paid me when you were dean
and brought me to the faculty.
- Really?
- I'm just kidding.
I have the single signed on Babe Ruth ball
and a single signed Ty Cobb.
And they are the most expensive
balls I have ever purchased
because they're so special.
I cannot afford a single
sign Lou Gehrig ball.
They're rare much rarer
than Babe Ruth balls.
- And it's interesting
cause your son, I mean your
son, Matthew is very successful
and I know you love
going to games with him.
But one of the things that he's
an expert in is memorabilia.
And I'll just interject the story here
and give people a
recommendation for reading.
If you go to the New York
Times archive on the internet
and you Google
or do the equivalent on
their site, an op-ed piece
called I Got It, I got It, by
a man named Michael Murray.
M-U-R-R-A-Y that's my sister's husband
and my closest friend growing up.
And it is a phenomenal op-ed
piece that was written by Mike
in the 70s when he caught
his first ball at Yankee
Stadium.
And I turned 60 the very
week of my installation
as president of NYU.
And Mike gave me a case
and Arthur has seen this
and his son, Matthew has seen it.
And said to me, "You gotta
be careful with that."
He gave me a case
and in the case was a copy of that article
and the ball he caught
and a ball that was sent to
him by the then commissioner
of baseball when he read
the article in the Times,
Brian Cone.
Signed by all of the then
living members of the
first All-Star team.
And I'm told by your son
that it's priceless to me
and it will be a family heirloom forever.
But I'm told that's the only...
Now have you ever caught a ball at a game?
- No, I've never caught a ball at a game.
I've been blessed by
having been given a ball
or two, one by Joe Torre.
- And so that gets me
now, that's a good segue.
I happen to know that that
you're good friends with Torre.
Now, I'm gonna...
Cause we're not gonna, we had
originally said that I would
do this with you
and then you would do it with me.
Well, bargain the part with me.
We're gonna get to people's questions.
- No.
- Stop.
But I've got to tell one Joe Torre story,
because it's an interesting story.
And then we'll set you up to
explain how you became friends
with Joe.
As many of my former students
who are people associated
with the university know.
Although I am I'm gonna get
a little of my biography.
You're looking at a historical figure here
because not only did I
meet Jackie Robinson,
thanks to my dad when I
was young more than once.
In fact, he had dinner in
our home more than once
cause my father was a
political figure in Brooklyn.
But I am also in the spirit of Robinson
not to trivialize that
but so I'll be a bit facetious yet.
That Jackie Robinson of the
B'nai B'rith Little League
I was the first...
Billy Ryan
and I were the first
Non-Jews to play in the
B'nai B'rith Little League.
And I didn't have the talent that you did.
I wasn't stopped by injury from flowering.
I was a savvy, no hit
but good defensive catcher
who could actually throw out a
runner at second base.
And was willing to get hit by a ball.
In the spirit of Ron Hunt, I
would frequently take a pitch
for the team
but I'd never...
I was a banjo hitter at best.
And then the banjo had to be very big.
But in any case, I was a
debater in high school.
That was my forte.
And I was at, what's now Medgar
Evers College in Brooklyn,
that was a high school,
a Jesuit High school.
The exact building was a high
school named Brooklyn Prep,
which is this wonderful school
that I attended for high
school.
And now they have trailers
that are faculty offices
out on what was a
beautiful baseball field.
And a left field in the
baseball field was the school
building, which was
about four stories high.
And I was, in one of those
questions that could look out
on the baseball field for
left field about 320 feet
from home plate, I'd say.
But I was on a third floor, 40 feet up.
Debate it.
When a baseball came
crashing through the window.
And I picked up that ball
and of course went
and saw what had happened.
And it had been hit by a
player, who was playing against
Brooklyn Prep.
It was Brooklyn prep
versus St. Francis Prep.
It was my junior year
and the catcher for St. Francis
prep, a guy named Joe Torre
hit that ball.
And my first year as president
of NYU, which was 2001
2002 graduation was my first graduation.
And the Yankees of course
had been on a tear.
And we honored Joe with
an honorary degree.
And he came
and I said, "I caught the ball."
And he said, "What ball?"
And I said, "1958 in Brooklyn prep."
And that's all I had to say, he remembered
cause if you hit something like that
cause it was 40 feet up 320 feet out.
These players, they never
forget anything like that.
Tell us about you
and Joe Torre.
- All right.
This is a slightly long story John,
but you know about long stories.
I'm approaching my 80th birthday
and I wake up one morning.
I say, where do I want to
be on my 80th birthday?
And it comes to me in a
nanosecond, I wanna be
in Yankee Stadium.
I immediately fish out the
dollars to buy two legends seats.
Call up my son, who's out in California.
I say, Matt, this is my 80th birthday.
I've just gotten two legend
seats, you wanna come out
and go to the ball game with me?
And he's says yes in a flash.
Now back then I was running a Sports
and Society Institute
designed to look at the social
implications of sports.
And we planned an all-day
seminar for high school coaches
and administrators on
leadership and ethics.
And my gang was saying, how
are we going to hold people
there all afternoon?
We need a closer, somebody
who will keep people
in their seats.
And one of the guys says to
me didn't you have Rob Manfred
as a student.
And I said, "Yeah, I had him
as a student up in Harvard."
And they say, well, you
know, Torre runs an Institute
for youth sports.
And they go with me into
calling up Rob Manfred.
I said, "Do you think you think
Joe would have any interest
in being the windup?
And he said "I'll check with Joe."
30 minutes later, Rob says,
Joe says, yes, here's his phone
number.
And I call up Torre
and it's Joe
and Arthur.
I mean, here it is, it's
the Thursday of our seminar.
My birthday's Sunday.
And Joe comes in to ward
password green room.
And we're having a
nice, easy conversation.
I look at Joe
and I say, Joe Sunday is Old-Timer's Day.
And he says, yeah it's Old-Timers.
I said, "Joe, you're gonna be there?"
He says, yeah, I have always been there.
Are you gonna be in uniform?
Yeah, I'll wear the uniform.
Are you gonna play?
No, I never play.
Arthur, why are you asking
me all these questions?
And I say, Joe, it turns out Sunday
is literally my 80th birthday.
I've got two legends seats.
My son is flying out from California.
I just wanted to know if
you were gonna be there.
And he looked at me
and just said, "Are you kidding me?"
And I say, no, it's the truth.
He says, well, then we just
have to get you on the field.
Wow, meet me at the Yankee
Executive Office 10 o'clock
Sunday.
My son flies out, I don't tell him a word.
We're walking along the stadium
to the executive offices.
Who the hell is 10'15 feet in front of me?
Torre.
And I say to my son, just
follow me, hopped to over a
barrier, Matt, my son, Matthew
he said, "You can't do that."
I said, "Just follow me."
And there's Torre.
And I go up
and back of Torre
and I grab him by the shoulder.
My son believes I'm gonna be arrested.
(laughs)
Joe turns around
and says, Oh, it's you Arthur
and this must be your son, Matthew.
And my son goes gaga, Joe takes us in
and he puts us in the visiting dugout
and he says, this is where
the old-timers come through.
You'll be able to see them all.
Great, they start filing in
and a half an hour later,
Joe's assistant comes over
with a baseball
and he says, Joe thought
maybe you'd like to get some
signatures.
I mean, I'm the Pagan in the proverbial.
And half an hour later after
that, the message comes.
Joe says, go on the field.
And I say to the assistant,
you're not allowed to be on the field
and the assistant grants
and he says, go on the field.
Either they'll think you're media
or Joe will be there.
And then nobody's gonna end up there.
My son
and I are out there with Ricky Henderson
and all the gang.
What a day?
- Would you say that was
you greatest baseball day?
- That was my most unique baseball day.
And then somebody had
arranged for a little party
in the legend seats with a cake
and all that crap.
And a week later, a little
box arrives from Joe Torre's
office
and I open it up
and there's a baseball
and it's signed by Derek Jeter
and it says, happy 80th birthday, Arthur.
And it's up here.
It's up here.
I mean, what's the perfect 80th birthday.
The one that makes you feel 12 years old.
- That's a great story.
Listen, we're gonna switch to
the questions very quickly,
but I have one final question for you.
What's your favorite baseball case?
- You mean a law case?
A real law case.
- Yeah, right.
A real law case.
I mean, I know there's still
the little tiny removal case
in our case book.
That's been there for
decades involving Pete Rose
but that's not, that can't be it.
Mine as you know--
- Not the case.
This is a case that I
teach it in Sports Law
with Jodi Balsam it takes us
back over 100 years to 1902.
Napoleon Lajoie.
- You said he was a favorite of yours.
- Yeah, I want everybody
who's on this zoom.
Do you know who Napoleon Lajoie was?
One of the greatest ball
players of all time.
Hall of Fame, he was in the
second tranche of Hall of
Famous.
'39, well, no that was all open.
'37 the "Five Immortals" came in in '36.
Lajoie, was is the second baseball.
He was under contract to play
with the Philadelphia Phillies
of the National league.
He wanted more money.
He jumped to the Philadelphia
Athletics of the newly
formed American League.
This is 1901 when the National
League had been in business
for 25 years, the American
League was the upstart.
The Junior League, they still
call it the Junior League.
Now in Lajoie's contract
was a restrictive clause.
Couldn't play for anybody else.
And it had little reserve clause in it.
Contractually, as of then
Lajoie was bound to the Phillies
for life.
Pennsylvania Supreme Court
and this is right out of
first year contracts wouldn't
enforce
and make him play for the Phillies.
But they would say
but you can't play for the Athletics.
At which point, the
Athletics take his contract
and send it to the Cleveland
Broncos in the American League,
newly formed American League.
Which was more reborn.
In fact, they renamed the
team, the Cleveland Naps.
This is a problem of the
territorial limitations
on an injunction
because the Cleveland
Courts would not enforce the
Pennsylvania injunction
against playing anywhere
other than the Phillies.
You got a half the first year
curriculum built right into
that case.
Lajoie set virtually every
offensive record in his era
was on a par with Ty Cobb except Ty Cobb
got all the publicity.
But Lajoie's statistics are Cobbly.
It's a great job.
I think simple-minded old fogy me.
I think it's a classic
ancient story about baseball
and the law.
- And those that wanna
find out more about this,
I'll give myself a little plug here.
Many of the people on this
event know that a few years ago,
I wrote a book called
"Baseball as a Road to God"
just so you think I don't
only write about baseball
last year I put out a book
called "Standing for Reason"
about my concepts my of the university
but the book I'm working on
now is called "The Law of
Baseball."
And I take the various areas of law
and illustrate them with baseball cases.
And the Lajoie case will be
one of the cases that I'll use
in that.
All right, Arthur I'm gonna
turn now to the question.
- I wanna biographical with
you with some questions.
- But you're much more, first of all,
you're much more interesting
and more elusive than I.
We're gonna turn to the
questions that came in from
folks
and I've organized they're
dozens of themselves.
We excused those that we don't get to.
I've tried the cluster,
the ones that came in more
than once.
But one was just a straightforward
question to which I
think you can give just
a one paragraph answer,
which is, what do you think
is the greatest Yankee team
ever?
- 1927
- You have nothing interesting
to say on that the--
- It's Hall of Famous.
- I understand it's the
morning line answer.
- I'm sorry it's a simple-minded
but I think it was the
greatest team of all time.
- No surprise Arthur
Miller is a traditionalist.
We get it.
Now let's test you a little bit,
because a few minutes ago you
talked about your work in the
Sports and Society Center
when you came to NYU.
What do you think about the
way Major League Baseball,
former student of yours
handled what I'm gonna call the
cheating crisis?
Because the question you're
only asked it in terms of the
Astros
but I have to include the Red Sox as well.
What do you think about the
punishments that were handed
out?
And if you had been asked
by Rob to give advice to him
and to Joe Torre
and the others that were deciding that.
Would you advise what they did
or more
or less
or what?
- I understand they have been criticized
for being too lenient.
And if I was czar
and had power I probably would
have been tougher in terms of
taking the World Series away.
- Time out.
Taking the World Series of way.
I go that far with you sure.
Would you have named
a World Series winner?
- Probably not.
- Would it become like a horse
race where they disqualify
the horse that seems to have won?
- Too speculative.
I don't believe in asterisks
in the record book.
I just would've left it
blank, take the trophy away
from them.
Of course the trophy had been given
and their ranges had been given
but going further posed
enormous difficulties.
Did baseball--
- Draft picks.
- Maybe draft picks as well.
But I could understand that
that Manfred was worried about
dragging it out too far
provoking litigation.
He had made a deal with the
players that if they spoke,
they would not be punished.
- Would you have given that deal?
Would you have given that immunity?
- I think he had to.
To get at what the Astros
apparently did, I think he had to.
It's a closed society.
The players are in a closed
society with a union, that's
very powerful.
That would have prevented too
many people from speaking up
absent the immunity.
And by giving the immunity,
he in fact was saying,
we can't spend the rest of
our lives the next 10 seasons
cleaning this up.
The stain on baseball would be too long.
That was the judgment call,
it was a judgment call.
- And the Red Sox, would
you have taken away
their World Series?
- Repeat that.
- The Red Soxs, what about them?
I mean, my position is any time
you can penalize the Red Sox
for anything, whether
they did anything wrong
or not you do it.
- Well, we don't have enough
information about the Red Sox
situation as compared
to the Astros situation.
But if it was as grievous
as the Astros, yes.
At least it would go too
but where does it end?
It becomes a self-inflicted
wound on baseball.
If you carry it out too long.
And a bizarre byproduct of
this crazy 60-game season
we're now in is it gives a
little more time for the stain
of the Astros situation
to recede into history.
- There were several
questions that came in about
the 60-game season.
How do you think baseball should handle...
We had this odd thing just
the other day, I guess,
yesterday, maybe I lose
a little time in this
but where Aaron Judge hit a
home run after they thirded it
out in the inning
because the Yankees...
It was preseason of course.
But the question came up, does
this go into the statistics
cause they keep preseason
statistics as well as regular
season statistics.
Does this go into his record
as a preseason home run?
And the answer was yes, Gerardi
and Aaron Boone had an
agreement that if, for example,
there were 10 players playing
because they want to get
certain players extra at bats.
And in this case, a
third out was registered.
Judge was about to come up
and Gerardi the Philadelphia
manager wanted the Philadelphia
pitcher in there for a few more pitches.
And of course he gave up
the home run to Judge.
Here we are in the 60-game season,
how are we gonna count the records?
What's your view on that?
Should there be an
asterisk on all of them?
You just said you were
against the asterisk.
What about do the League
Championships get to fly the flag?
Individual records, team
records, what's your position?
- I admitted 10 minutes ago, John.
I'm an old fogy.
I do not believe Babe Ruth's
record of 60 home runs has been
broken.
Maris, 61st home run after
154 games had been played.
That's me.
I would take this year
and plug the statistics into
ball player, lifetime averages
and statistics.
I would not otherwise be
given most valuable player
or CYA.
I wouldn't chalk it up
as a World Series win.
At a minimum I would
do the asterisk thing.
But this is such a unique
situation with so many factors
that will bear on the 60 games.
That I don't think it is
representative of what I think of
as baseball, 150 162
games over eight months.
I just don't.
- Well, again, I'm gonna
push you a little bit
because it seems to me, you
concede the player records
should go in
and that seems easy.
I don't know why you would
separate out player honors,
although I guess it's
cause it didn't have the duration.
I'll buy that.
- Think of CYA, how
many stacks is a pitch.
- No, I get it.
I'm accepting that argue
and I'm going into my point
that I think is lethal
to your position is why you
would discount the playoffs
because in other words
not give the ALCS flag
and the World Series flags
because the preseason is the preseason.
How you see the playoffs, it
seems to me once they start
they're the same as every other season.
- Except for it being 60 games.
- Well, so what?
You still make it through
the quarters, through semis
and the finals.
- Yeah, you do.
But it's not a full season.
It doesn't the strains
that a full season have.
- The season only sets the seeds Arthur.
- No.
The one of the unique things
about baseball is the dimension
of the season.
- It's okay.
Just to summarize this before
I go to the next question,
you would take away
the Astros World Series
cause they cheated you
wouldn't take away the Red Sox
because there wasn't enough evidence yet,
but you would take away the
Yankee World Series Victory
in 2020
because the seating that set
up the tournament for the World
Series Championship, didn't
have the robust fulsome
162-game season that you
have grown accustomed to
even though you don't count
the last eight games in a year?
- If you really push me, put
it in as with the Nationals.
But putting it in straight
2020 winner is equal to my 27
New York Yankees not in a pig's eyes.
- Well, you don't think
that the 1996 Yankees
were the equivalent to the 27 Yankees.
What do you think of the
two new rule changes?
It's just for those that don't know
and don't follow this the way you
and I do.
This season, the DH has
come to the National League
because there's a few, like
the Yankees are playing
they're gonna be 60 games total.
They're gonna play 40 in the
Eastern division against the
four rivals 10 each.
And they're gonna play 20
against the Eastern division of
the National League.
That's the 60 games
and the DH will be used
in all of those games.
And then the other rule
change for this year,
this season only
cause of the 2020 COVID situation
is that if the game goes
to extra innings, each team
starts each inning with a runner
on second base.
What do you think of
those two rules jointly
or single?
- I like one, I don't like the other.
I've gotten so used to designated hitter.
I find pitching, hitting to be boring
and predictable.
But starting a runner on
second base in the 10th innings
strikes me.
- Time up.
Before you leave this thing about the D
you're a DH fan?
You like the DH.
- I like the DH
because it puts another mega
or real hitter in
against the real pitcher.
- It puts a one dimensional player.
Like what teasing you mean?
We've lost the notion of
the well-rounded, as we lose
liberal education.
Also, we'll lose the
well-rounded ball fight.
- I suppose I'm being
slightly inconsistent.
- And you don't like the chess
game of removing pitches,
pinch hitting, bunting
and things of that sort.
You play to the specialty game of the DH.
- I think from a viewers point of view
it's more interesting.
But I could be wrong, I
haven't seen a burn years.
- Well, exactly.
- Well, maybe I'm simply
reflecting the factS
that I've gotten so used
to it, I think it's normal.
- Well, I mean, the National
League is the only league
at any level of baseball
it doesn't use it now.
I guess we're moving
and moving in that direction.
One other question that came
in, which I found interesting,
I thought you might have some
views on is, how do you think
it's gonna affect the game this
year, that the players will
be playing without any crowd noise?
- I think that's something
they will get used to.
It may take 10
or 15 games
but I think after that
they'll be used to it.
- It's gonna be like games that
they played, maybe when they
were in college
or in the (mumbles).
- Something like that,
or many exhibition games
during the spring training.
I think once they're into
this season, they become so
focused on the field
and what each player
is doing on the field.
- Well, baseball...
This is one reason why I was
surprised by your answer on the
DH.
Although, I know your position
from many discussions.
Baseball is a game of deep
concentration, as you know
I have no patience for people
that talk about baseball
as being too slow.
It actually, it's in a way modern life
is so hyper-stimulated we've lost it.
I mean, I have a t-shirt I
wear out here in Fire Island
that has on the back of it live slow.
And if you read "Baseball
as a Road to God"
part of the greatness of baseball
and you
and I experience this all the time
cause we go to so many games
together, we go to probably
at least a dozen, sometimes as
many as 20 games not counting
the playoffs together in
the course of the year.
And the action in baseball,
a lot of the action happens
between the pitches.
What pitches is gonna be thrown.
How do you play the field?
Do you send the runner,
the bunt, the removal
or not removal of a pitcher?
This lyrical quality of
baseball is gonna be amplified,
I think.
Last night for the first
time, I don't watch Stephen
Colbert,
but I watched him do his monologue
and his show without any crowd response.
And when you have rimshot jokes
and you don't have crowd
response, it really reveals itself
as being flat, I have to say.
I hope that's not the story of a baseball.
- I think give it 10
or 15 games.
You used the image of Colbert.
I happened to be a late night
person, I have him on just
about every night to hear the monologue.
I'm now used to the fact that
a good funny line is greeted
by silence except by me, I'm laughing.
Otherwise, might have watched
pieces of the three exhibition
games.
I did find it strange to
see all the empty seats
but I think that I can
go get used to that.
I do believe, they'll get used to that.
- A big question as we
move toward the end here,
do you think, I mean, you remember
cause Mike Murray, who I
talked about that article
and I
and you as we watched the
2001 delayed World Series
for those that are too young
when 9/11 happened baseball
actually suspended actions
and then played a great role
in bringing the country back.
That's when the playing
the God bless America
and the seventh inning started
and a whole host of things.
And Mike Murray
and I
and you conceived.
And actually had spoken to
the city's leaders at the time
that if the Yankees won
and they came within one
essentially bloop single of winning
the series that year losing
in game seven to Arizona.
But if they had won, we had
proposed that the traditional
parade in the canyons begin at 42nd Street
and go South
and end up at the trade center.
That liturgical moment.
And so here we are in this time
of these two great tsunamis,
the health tsunami of COVID
and the tsunami, let's
hope of a special awakening
of consciousness of inequality
and racism and so forth.
And some people, Pete Hamill, for example,
will say that Jackie Robinson
and Branch Rickey set the
stage for Brown versus Board of
Education, that this was part
of coming back from the war
and the advancement of society.
What do you think...
What role, if any, do you
think baseball, which has now
become, it's got all
issues like the steroids.
It's an imperfect hero,
but is there a role to be
played by baseball in helping us
bind together?
And do you think that's
gonna begin to show itself on
Thursday
or will it gradually
build over the season?
- See I'm hopeful.
Mike mentioned of the
therapeutic value of baseball
following 9/11.
And if anybody in the group
with us went to a ball game
after 9/11, one space forward,
they would have felt it.
It was in the stands,
we were united again.
We were in our own way patriotic.
I remember during World War
II, they did not stop baseball.
Most of the players went off
and served in one of the military branches
but Roosevelt made it clear.
He did not want baseball to stop
because it bound people together.
And of course that was an
era in which sports meant
baseball.
I think sports have an
enormous therapeutic value.
The language of sports is universal.
It's absolutely universal.
And although you can't
quantify it it's there.
And I'm just hoping that as you point out
the war against racism is in
part a story about baseball.
And Jackie Robinson, whose
entrance into baseball
I also witnessed
and saw the nastiness, the
racism that used to exist
in the ballpark.
If you went to the ballpark,
as I did with my dad,
it was white, male
and white.
And then you kick 47 in jack eight
and then the normalcy of people of color
and various ethnicities
and nationalities.
And that's a powerful force.
- We're in penalty time
now to use another sport
and we're gonna finish up.
- You've been showing your colors
about these things we've talked about.
- Well
but you're the star of the show.
We're gonna--
- Stop that.
- A lot of people much as
you had Torre to keep people
to the end of your
Sports and Society thing.
I've got this question
cause we may have some
people who bet on sports
and they've been waiting
to hear your predictions
about this season.
I wanna know from you, the
two teams that are gonna be
in the ALCS.
Now just to prepare folks,
we're gonna see how much
he's just a jock guy.
And I hope he gives us
the jock answers here.
Then I think we're not gonna
ascribe to him the expertise
when those things come to be.
In any case, I'm gonna
ask the question a little
differently therefore,
cause I know you tend to the jock.
The two teams in the ALCS,
the two teams in the NLCS
and the two that get
into the World Series,
the winner of the World Series.
That's three questions.
The fourth question is the one
team you didn't name that you
think could be, have the surprise
shot at the Championship.
First of all, who are the
two teams in the ALCS?
At end of the 60 games sprint.
And of course the quarterfinals
and so forth.
- ALCS I wouldn't have to say Houston
and the Yankees.
- Its jock.
Now NLCS.
- Jumping into the fourth
question, the sleepers.
- We'll get there.
NLCS, gonna go with the Dodgers
and the Nationals?
- Probably, although the Cubs
are not far off that much.
- You gotta make a prediction here.
This is being taped off Arthur,
we're gonna play this back
in September.
- Well, clearly to me clearly the Dodgers.
And the team that could beat
the Nationals, believe it
or not I think this may
be a year of the Mets.
- Well, what's your prediction, please.
For the NLCS you gotta
remember you trained me.
I know how to ask the question.
- You have to pick the
(mumbles) as well as the players
their teams.
- We'll could get to that next.
But who are the two teams in the NLCS?
- I would say Dodgers, I
stick with the Dodgers.
I think they're incredibly powerful.
And I guess I go with...
I love Fred Wilpon as you do
so much that I'm gonna say
the Mets.
- Who's in the World Series?
What two teams?
- World Series would be the Dodgers.
I'm sticking with them
from beginning to end.
And I would like to say the Yankees.
- And the winner of the World Series?
How many games
and who wins?
- Oh God, I dint know.
Every emotion in me is
Yankee, every emotion.
- But I'm asking Nostradamus here.
I'm not asking the hucker god.
What?
- The Dodgers.
- And how many games?
- Six
or seven.
- And the sleeper team for you
and you already said it the Mets.
- Maybe it's the Mets.
It could be the Twins, they
have a very well balanced team.
It could be Oakland
or the Angels.
And what team that's funny interesting.
A sleeper, real sleeper deep
sleep team would be Toronto
if they could ever figure
where they're playing.
- Listen, thank you to everybody.
I'm sorry we went into overtime here.
Mixing all metaphors
but Arthur I have to say to you
because you played such a role in my life.
Thank you for that.
And on behalf of everybody
associated with today, Arthur
has been bedridden
and under orders from a doctor
and he's not supposed to be out of bed
but he got out today for this.
We had a backup plan in
case he couldn't make it.
And you're not only made it
but you made it.
And I wanna tell you publicly I love you
and thank you.
I love (mumbles) too.
And everybody at NYU law
school, remember what a family
we are
and how there are not only
people in our community
who are in need of us as a community
but the nation
and the world is in need
of us as modelers of
what a community that
rejoices in difference
and tolerance can be.
And on my academic gown, I
have a little circle with the
number 42, where the person I
think is the greatest player
in the history of the game
and the difference that
he made in the world.
Even without the instrument
of law, we all have the
instrument of law to go out
and to make our world a fully equal
and a fully just world.
And baseball is not perfect
but it gives us the time
and the opportunity to just
examine the important elements
of the small
and how if you get the small
right it makes everything
work better.
And that's the spirit we
have to bring to the law.
One life better at a time in our community
and in our country
and in the world.
Thank you Arthur for everything.
You get the last word.
- No, John, thank you,
you put it beautifully.
Sports, baseball in particular
is one of the most important
systems in our society.
It's a microcosm.
And I honestly believe what
I said before that baseball
can be very therapeutic for society.
And I just cherish the opportunity John
to rappel with you as we did today,
I'm sure I made 10,000
mistakes which you overtime
will point out to me.
Thanks to the opportunity.
Thanks to NYU.
Thanks to you.
And thanks to everybody
who has joined us today.
- So long take care of each other
and stay safe.
- Bye.
