Douglas Goldstein: Jeff Kaufman is a programmer
but even better than that, he’s got a great
story.
He and his wife donate more than half their
income to the most effective charities that
they can find.
How did you get involved in that?
Jeff Kaufman: It’s something I cared about
for a while.
The sort of level of suffering in the world
is depressingly high and I kind of want to
do something about that and as of relatively
well I’m in the sort of privileged physician
where there’s actually quite a bit that
I can do.
Douglas Goldstein: Do you consider yourself
like a socialist or you just figured that
you are a good capitalist and you want to
give back?
Jeff Kaufman: This isn’t coming out as socialism.
This is coming out as the idea that everybody
matters, wherever they are, I should try and
help.
Douglas Goldstein: When did you decide to
do this?
When did you start this approach?
Jeff Kaufman: I started doing this in 2009
and my wife started earlier.
Douglas Goldstein: What percent do you actually
giveaway?
Jeff Kaufman: We go for halves.
We did haves last year and halves this year.
Earlier, it was sometimes more sometimes less
but it was a third for a while but now it’s
a half.
Douglas Goldstein: How does that affect your
lifestyle?
Jeff Kaufman: We spend less.
Douglas Goldstein: Are you able to save?
Jeff Kaufman: I wouldn’t recommend that
like most people give halves.
I feel like we are lucky that we have jobs
that pay better than common in this country
so we’re able to give more and 10% is sort
of a better number for most people.
Douglas Goldstein: Do you have an emergency
fund for yourselves?
Jeff Kaufman: We do.
We try and keep six months to a year worth
of expenses on hand and cash.
Douglas Goldstein: Do you have a lot of debt?
Jeff Kaufman: We have a mortgage on our house
so that’s kind of debt but it’s also a
house but that’s what we have.
We also have a loan that we used to purchase
a heating system for the house.
We try 
to avoid that.
Douglas Goldstein: Do you have a 401(k) or
an IRA or anything like that?
Jeff Kaufman: Yes we have a 401(k).
Douglas Goldstein: Do you fund it to the max
that you’re allowed?
Jeff Kaufman: Yes.
Douglas Goldstein: Really we could say that
your charity choice is just a choice of where
you spend your money rather than at best buy
you spend it on actually making the world
a better place.
Jeff Kaufman: Yes that seems fair.
Douglas Goldstein: I really think that people
who give away a lot of money have a much healthier
attitude towards money because their life
isn’t all about dollars and cents.
It’s all about what the power is of that
money?
Is that a feeling you’ve gotten also?
Jeff Kaufman: I try and think money in terms
of the good it can do either in terms of like
making the world better or just in terms of
like trying to find with a bit of money that
we do keep to ourselves trying to find the
places where it will most improve our lives,
spending it on experiences and on objectives
we’re going to have like long-term lasting
value, trying to avoid spending money on things
where in a month I will just think “Why
did I spend that money?”
Douglas Goldstein: What did your family say
about this?
Jeff Kaufman: Our families have been very
supportive.
Julia’s family initially was worried.
When she initially got into it, she wanted
to give away all her money and was very extreme
about it and over time, she has tempered a
bit and I think her family was worried that
she would end up like actually impoverished
but them seeing that that’s not how it turned
out and everyone has been very supportive.
Douglas Goldstein: How do you select charities?
What sort of charities do you work with?
Jeff Kaufman: We tend to follow the recommendations
of an organization called GiveWell.
They do lots of research into sort of what
are the ways that you can help people the
most and then they will look for organizations
working in those fields and they find really
[standard] organizations on those fields and
then they issues recommendations and we’ve
been following them for about five years now
and they just put out really great recommendations.
Douglas Goldstein: What sort of groups should
they be advising?
Jeff Kaufman: One of their top recommendations
right now is called the Against Malaria Foundation.
Malaria is a huge killer worldwide and it
can be prevented with these bed nets that
you sleep under.
Mosquitoes are most active at night.
You get malaria mostly from mosquitoes so
if you sleep under these nets, you’re protected
and so they distribute these nets.
The nets are relatively cheap, around $5 per
distribution sort of counting all of the cost
and the sort of effectiveness is many fewer
people is getting sufferings and stuff like
that..
This is also something that Gates Foundation
takes seriously.
They have a relatively similar approach to
the world looking for the places they can
most help people?
Douglas Goldstein: This specific one is this
a very large organization or do you consider
it sort of a small group?
Jeff Kaufman: It’s the most unusual thing
about it is how transparent it is.
They try very hard to make it easy for people
outside to just say that they are really doing
what they say they are doing.
They take photos of all their distributions.
They put up on their website all of the times
they made distributions, how much and where
the nets went.
This makes it very clear that they are doing
what they say they are doing and in general
has made it relatively easy for GiveWell to
verify that they really are as efficient at
distributing nets as 
they claim to be.
I think contributing to things that you sort
of affecting your local community really touched.
It can be very fulfilling to see those changes
around you.
On the other hand, in general in the world,
rich people did live near other rich people
and poor people live near other poor people.
So if everyone helps the people near them
and rich people can have more help than poor
people.
The New York 
library compared to people elsewhere in New
York city, there’s a big difference in in
need but also New York City versus other countries,
even the poorest people in the US for the
most part are better off than the poorest
people in the poorest countries.
So my wife and I have mostly focused internationally
for this reason.
Douglas Goldstein: Have you traveled around
to see what’s going on?
Jeff Kaufman: We’ve traveled some but mostly
just a certain general tourists, not like
looking for organizations 
to donate to.
Douglas Goldstein: How can people learn more
about what you guys are doing?
Jeff Kaufman: My wife has a blog at www.givinggladly.com.
That I think there are sort of things about
ways to approach charity 
that 
I think people is hard to pretty understand.
