

Frequently Asked Questions:

The Human Soul

By

Jesus (AJ Miller)

Session 1

Published by

Divine Truth, Australia at Smashwords

http://www.divinetruth.com/

Copyright 2015 Divine Truth

Smashwords Edition, License Notes

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This ebook is a collection of answers given by Jesus (AJ Miller) on the topic of the human soul. The answers were given in an interview with Luli Faber on 1st April 2013 (questions 0-6) and Mary Magdalene (Mary Luck) on 10th April 2013 (question 7), in Wilkesdale, Queensland, Australia. In this session Jesus discusses how the human soul operates, describing the principles of preclusion, absorption, dominance, progression, resistance, presence and suppression. This information is very important to correctly understand if you wish to have a relationship with God, and to experience true growth of your soul.

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Jesus and Mary would like to remind you that any document produced by Divine Truth containing any information from Jesus, Mary or any other person includes only a portion of God's Truth that they have personally discovered.

It does not and cannot contain the entire of God's Truth since God's Truth is infinite and humankind will forever continue to discover more of God's Truth as we progress in receiving more of God's Love.

Please remember that due to these limitations information contained within this document may need to be revised in the future.

Many other ebooks have been published by Divine Truth, including ebooks translated into a variety of different languages.

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Table of Contents

0. Introduction to How The Human Soul Functions

1. What is preclusion?

2. What is absorption?

3. What is dominance?

4. What is progression?

5. What is resistance?

6. What is presence?

7. What is suppression?

0. Introduction to How The Human Soul Functions

Welcome today. I have invited Luli Faber along to join me in a discussion, and that discussion is about how the human soul operates.

The main reason I wanted to have this discussion with somebody was that we get many questions about the soul and how the human soul operates but many of these questions are based around assumptions about the soul itself that are false. There's often is a confusion between the mind and the soul and there's also a confusion about what constitutes the soul as compared to the mind. So we are going to talk primarily about how the soul itself operates in comparison to how the mind operates, and that's why we are having the discussion. Having had this discussion we then have the ability to refer to it when we are answering questions about the human soul. In the FAQ channel there will eventually be many, many questions that we want to answer about the human soul but most of the questions will be answered by referring to some of these principles that I am discussing with Luli. So thank you Luli, for coming along and joining me in this discussion.

**Interviewer:** Pleasure.

And, as I said to you off-camera, feel free to ask any questions as we go along and also any points of clarification that you want to make; I've really just asked Luli to come along to keep me in line today. (Laughing)

**Interviewer:** That's a strange concept. (Laughing)

So if you keep me in line today that would be great as well. (Laughing) Let's just talk initially about the human soul in comparison to the spirit body's organs and the physical body's organs.

When God created the human soul He knew that at some point, due to its creation, He would separate the two halves of the soul and have an incarnation process where they could become individualised. As a result of that, He created all of these sensory apparatuses in each half of the soul. When the two halves of the soul split apart, the sensory apparatus in one half of the soul has to connect to something, and the sensory apparatus in the other half of the soul has to connect to something in order to experience the Universe around it. God created this wonderful process where a human couple who love each other, make love with each other, they create two bodies, the spirit body and the material body. The half of the soul, the sensory apparatus, can now connect to those bodies through these cords and therefore experience the Universe, firstly experiencing the physical Universe and then experiencing the spiritual Universe.

The physical body has organs of its own; we have the organs of sight, hearing, all the sensory apparatus, plus a brain and all the internal organs. They are all used by the physical body in order to maintain itself while it's alive, and the spirit body also has a whole group of similar organs. It has a heart, it has a mind, it has a sense of sight and other senses; in fact it has an even greater number of senses than the physical body has. So we have these two bodies which are basically like organisms, or you could almost think of them as robots, through which the half of the soul, the one half that split away from the soul in its union state, in its un-incarnated state, the half of the soul can now experience the Universe, until it reaches the union state again in a conscious manner. Now for all of that to occur we must start understanding what we're developing if we're actually growing in love. What part of ourselves are we developing? We're obviously not developing the physical body as the primary point of development and we're also not developing the spirit body as the primary point of development. We're developing the soul, and therefore we need to understand how the soul works; we need to understand how it's organised. We also need to understand that our physical body and our physical body's brain is actually being exercised by something behind it through this silver cord that connects our physical body with our spirit body, and then our spirit body's 'brain' and all of its other organs are also being influenced by something behind them - the soul of the individual, and it's the half of the soul of the individual, because it's yet to be in a completed union state. If we can remember that in this discussion, it will help us greatly in terms of determining what the soul is and in particular what the spirit body's mind is and what the physical body's brain is.

A lot of the questions we receive are all about: "If I exercise my mind in this direction how does that relate to my soul?" and "Is my soul developed if I develop my mind?" People have this idea or concept that you can make your mind be more loving when that's actually a physical impossibility, and there are all these basic concepts of misunderstanding that I feel cause people's questions. We would really like to iron these out and the way we can iron them out is by discussing how the soul works, how the spirit body works and how the physical body works, to a degree, and how they all fit together to become our conscious existence, firstly in the physical world and then in the spirit world.

So if we refer firstly to the physical body: you've had a lot of work on the brain and so forth. You can see in science that generally there's a lot of emphasis on the brain and its ability to control all of the functions of the physical body, and what have you found in that process?

**Interviewer:** It's just a complete mystery as to how it manifests the mind. Everyone thinks that somehow a bunch of nerve cells going off can create thoughts and ideas and beliefs and personality and free will and all these things but no one has the foggiest. There's not even a theory. There's just no idea.

No idea about how it works. So perhaps we need to talk a bit about how it actually does work so that people can understand. Firstly we've got our physical body: let's focus on our mind because that's where a lot of our thought seems to take place, if we could say. But the reality, as you know from working with the brain, is that a part of the brain can die. You would think then, if that part of the brain dies then the thoughts associated with that part of the brain would also be dead, but there have been occasions when a person's gone through some kind of recovery process, for example, after a stroke and then all of a sudden they get back the memories that you thought they had lost. It's pretty obvious then, that that part of the brain didn't contain the memories that they lost; it was a temporary loss for some reason.

**Interviewer:** They explain it as some kind of diffuse network of information and the person just sources it from some other part of the network.

Exactly, exactly. And then there's also the issue that you would have heard about too, where people have lost their sense of sight and then all of a sudden through some medical operation or whatever, regain their sense of sight. These kinds of instances show that if the physical body loses a sense of some kind it doesn't necessarily mean that the person behind the physical body has lost that sense at all. What it means is that the physical body is unable to manifest it, is unable to actually have an outward manifestation of what the capability is anymore because of the loss of the sense of the physical body. The physical body has senses of its own that are obviously connected to something behind it, and that's our spirit body. Our spirit body has a sense of sight, our spirit body has a brain and it exercises all of the senses of the physical form through this silver cord connection that we've talked about before. That means that if a certain sense that's in the physical body dies for some reason, say, we haven't cared for it or we have an accident, then we haven't lost the memories or lost the capacity to see, in the case of sight, the capacity to hear, in the case of hearing sensation, we haven't lost those capacities, we've just lost the ability to control them in the physical body. That's the only thing we've lost; all of those capacities still exist in the spirit form.

Now if we look at the spirit body, it's almost identical to that. It's almost identical in operation to the physical body in reference to the spirit body; the spirit body in reference to the soul is almost identical in operation. The pattern of the spirit body looking after and maintaining the physical body is the same pattern as the soul controlling the spirit body. Behind the spirit body is this organ; let's call it the real us, the real person, the real individual that has all these organs that control through a cord a series of energetic connections with the spirit body, controlling its brain and all the operation of its internal functions and also controlling its ability to emanate those particular things, to actually do something with those particular things and make choices and decisions and live in the spirit world. The half of the soul needs the spirit body in order to connect with the spirit world. If it didn't have the spirit body it would have a limited sensory ability to connect with the spirit world, just like if we don't have a physical body we have a limited sensory ability to connect with the physical world.

It's not that obvious to a spirit anymore that they are living in that world, but when we're living in a physical body on earth it's very obvious that we're connected to a physical body and physical things. This is a reason why we need these bodies in order to grow. They are really like an education system, the physical body being the education system for our soul to learn the surroundings in our physical Universe, the spirit body being the education system that our soul uses to connect to the spirit Universe. Then of course we can even grow to beyond that point where we no longer need any body. I don't mean that we no longer need anybody, in terms of other people, we don't need any body, physical or material in order to express ourselves. In fact we have the ability to create many bodies in that state.

If we examine all of that and we talk about the mind, which is the main thing that most people believe is the real person, the personality of the individual, and we talk about the soul which is the real thing that is the personality and individual person, and we start to compare where those things are and what happens to them, then we will have a far greater understanding of what we mean when we talk about soul development, and particularly developing our soul to grow in love.

We could focus on the mind and the brain and the spirit and the soul in terms of how they are all influenced by each other. This brain only controls the physiological functions of the body in which it is encased. It doesn't control the thought processes, or the personality, or the emotions of the individual. They can be expressed through the brain of course, because the reason and purpose for the brain is to express what is behind it, what is at the back of it, but for most people all of those things are usually felt in their spirit form, their spirit body. They have a mind in their spirit body which is really like the brain of the physical body and most of their memories and thoughts are stored in this mind of the spirit body and therefore as soon as they pass into the spirit world nothing's really changed. They can remember everything; usually they can remember even more than they could remember using their brain of the physical body because their brain was an encumbrance, in many cases. By the time you pass it's a bit decayed and old and not able to be used very well, but your spirit body's mind and brain is able to be used a lot more, with a lot more functionality, and therefore you can have a larger speed of gathering information and absorption of information by that brain, gathering more facts about the Universe and so forth.

But behind that is the soul which has the real mind, and the mind of the soul is just an organ of the soul. It's just a small portion of the soul. It's where in the end all potential logical functioning can occur but for most people who live that's not the case because what happens is that they have suppressed their soul so much that the mind of their soul is not functioning. They use the mind of their spirit body in order to determine Truth; in fact, in order to determine anything about what they wish to do with their life, their personality, their nature. All these other things are often a part of that but not yet a part of their soul. What I feel most people don't realise is that when they are using their mind they are just using another brain, not the physical one but the spirit body's brain, but without any reference to the soul, which is a very dangerous thing to do actually, because it's also very illogical to do.

So that's the main relationship between the soul ... Eventually, when we are at one with God, the soul has its own mind and in fact the mind of the spirit body, the brain of the spirit body, just becomes a tool that the mind of the soul exercises to express itself, just as the physical body's brain is only a tool that the spirit body's mind uses to express itself. So there's this relationship between the three organs if you like.

**Interviewer:** But it's possible while you're in the physical form to have the soul mind completely dominant and the spirit mind completely passive?

Yes. And that was the transition I went through in the first century before I became at one with God. In the seventh dimension you go through this transition. Basically what happens is that the mind of the spirit body sort of becomes absorbed by the mind of the soul. In other words the mind of the soul completely dominates it now. What we need to understand is that the mind, which is really the mind of the soul, is actually just a small portion of the soul itself; it's not the soul itself, it's just a portion of the soul. You could call it an organ of the soul. Just as we have an arm or a leg or a kidney or a liver or a brain which is an organ of our whole body, the whole soul has many organs. Of course the organs of the soul are not of the same nature as our spirit form or our physical form. They are what you would classify as different processes that occur within the soul that by themselves cannot operate independently without the complete soul, just as, in our body, we have physically independent organs that cannot operate without the body itself. They need the body in order to function.

And it's the same with the mind of the soul. The mind of the soul needs so many other things in the soul to be functioning in order for the mind of the soul to be functioning. Therefore it needs development of the soul in order to function, whereas the brain of the spirit body, which is the mind that most people use, and the brain of the material body, which is the physiological brain that we use to operate in this physical world, those two things don't require much development in order to function. In fact, the physical body requires no spiritual development in order to function. God created it that way, so that we would be functioning automatically in the physical world.

The spirit body though, does require a certain amount of spirit development in order to function in the spirit world. The reason is so that we develop and grow in the spirit world. It does require a certain amount of spiritual knowledge and development before a person will actually grow in their spirit form in the spirit world. But the soul needs and can grow by itself individually and affect both bodies no matter where we are. It is independent of the physical world and the spirit world and therefore has the greatest capacity for our interaction with all worlds.

I feel that this is one of the things that most people are not aware of. They develop either their mind or they develop themselves physically. For example a person developing themselves physically might go to their local gym, you know, and then they might read some books and get a heap of knowledge as well and that is also partially developing them spiritually, whereas when they just go the gym and pump iron most of the time that's just ... or go running, that's developing physically. As soon as they start picking up something that requires the engagement of their brain and therefore the engagement of their spirit body's mind they are now starting to develop their spirit body as well, their spirit body's brain. Their body, as a result, gets developed as a part of that process and they're now developing more than just their physical form. Once you start developing this whole area of emotions and feelings and sensations and deeply emotional things, you are now developing the soul. The reality is that you can develop all three things at the same time, but the soul has the greatest power and the soul itself affects the functioning of both bodies.

If we have specific emotions in the soul it will actually affect how the spirit body's mind even works, and affect this physical body's brain, the whole of the physical body and all of its organs, affect how all of those work. This is one of the reasons why we get sick; there is an interruption in how the soul can affect those particular things because of something that's gone on in the soul causing an interruption in the flow of energy and the flow of information from the soul to both bodies. If most people understood that, they would start working on their soul when it came to sicknesses and diseases rather than working on just their physical body or their spirit body.

I feel that would even answer a lot of questions for people about, you know, diseases and sicknesses, if they've got some kind of terminal disease, for example. If they understand that behind their physical body there's a spirit body and behind their spirit body is the soul and when there's an interruption emotionally of some kind inside the soul, it will cause an interruption in both physical and spiritual bodies which will create the disease. While that interruption remains in play the disease will continue to grow. As soon as you reduce the interruption from the soul, the disease will die a natural death and you will become healthy again. These kinds of things need to be understood by a person who's trying to develop themselves, in working out why they are sick and why they grow old and even why they die. It's all about what's going on in the soul.

I suppose the main thing at this point is that we understand that the soul has organs of its own and one of those organs is the mind of the soul. The spirit body has organs of its own which maintain the spirit body and one of the organs is the brain of the spirit body. The physical body has a brain that helps maintain its body and it's just one of the organs of the physical body. If people realise that the physical body is just like a robot that the soul uses to express itself in the physical world and the spirit body is like the robot that the soul uses to express itself in the spiritual world then we would start to focus more on soul development rather than development of our mind. So the mind becomes sort of subservient to all other forms of development, whereas for many people who are on Earth, the mind is the dominant form of development that they engage in; they absorb information through their mind and it's their main way of engaging with the world. What I'm suggesting is that's not the main way the soul engages with the Universe.

**Interviewer:** Just a question about the soul's mind. You know how when you list the attributes of the soul, the emotions and the personality and the free will. Are they in the soul's mind?

No, the soul's mind is a separate attribute of the soul to those things.

**Interviewer:** That's where the logic of the soul is.

That's where the logic of the soul is expressed. The soul's mind is the organ in which the logic of the soul is expressed. There are other organs in the soul that express different things that are actually much more powerful than the soul's mind. For example if we look at the organs, the soul has a heart and the heart of the soul expresses the love-based feelings and emotions of the soul. They are far more powerful and far more powerfully expressed than anything the soul's mind is capable of expressing. There are organs in the soul that are far more powerful than the mind which is one organ that exists within the soul. But it is a necessary organ in the soul; it's necessary for determining logic. You could liken it to a computer. It's like the microprocessor that is the centre of the computer; it controls a lot of the physiological functions of the soul in the same way, but it's not the dominant thing in the soul and in fact once you've developed your soul it becomes very subordinate. It's completely subordinate to other functions of the soul.

If I can give some other illustrations: when we develop humility, for example, we view that as a quality but it is actually developed in an organ in the soul itself. It's a part of the organs that are contained within the soul and it's actually a larger part than the mind of the soul. It also dominates the mind of the soul and how it functions. In other words the organ of humility, which we express as a quality, actually controls how the mind of the soul works. This is why humility is such an important quality to develop in your soul. The way it controls the mind is that the mind is unable to accept anything that the soul lacks humility about. If we put it another way, the soul's mind cannot accept anything about which we are arrogant, in which we believe we know the Truth but have not yet fully discovered it, and you can see why of course. While I'm lacking humility I'm blocked to certain thoughts, to certain concepts. I believe myself to know them already or I believe they are immaterial or I believe they are not important or I believe they don't exist. I usually believe one of those things when I lack humility. So humility controls the thought processes. I will not accept a thought that humility, or my lack of it, determines I should not accept. So you can see, from that regard, the mind is completely subordinate to this quality of humility.

**Interviewer:** And this is both the spirit body's mind and the soul?

Of course, because the spirit body's mind is just an expression of what's happening at the soul level anyway. So it will also greatly control what we will allow ourselves to accept into our spirit body's mind. We will not allow anything that disagrees with our concepts that exist within the soul with regard to the attitude of humility. If I don't have humility on all subjects, it is only on the subjects that I have humility that I will actually receive the Truth about. My mind is only capable of absorbing that Truth while I am humble on that subject. As soon as I have a lack of humility on that subject it's like closing my mind to that particular subject, and my ability to learn more Truth on that subject is now highly limited. In that regard, you can see that humility is a much greater quality to develop than intellectual development because it completely controls intellectual development.

If we have a look at another quality - such as love. Love is a quality that is understood by the organ of the heart of the soul. It is completely unable to be understood by the organ of the mind of the soul. When we talk about expressing love, feeling love, acting in harmony with love and all these other different things with regard to love, our soul's mind is completely unable to understand it at all.

**Interviewer:** This is why we can't describe it in words.

Exactly. It's impossible. It's impossible to describe it effectively in words unless the person has had an emotional inflection of those words in their past. In other words they've had an experience of love in their past to which they can relate those words. And this is the limitation of our mind. Our mind is completely unable to understand feelings. It can express them as thoughts but it cannot understand them and feel them as feelings. This is one of the severe limitations of our mind, both our spirit body's and our physical body's brain, but the mind of our soul is also limited in that regard. The mind of the soul is only able to express logical thought and is not able to actually feel feelings without the other organs of the soul being involved. If a person hasn't developed the heart of their soul and they haven't developed the organ of humility in their soul, you can see that the mind of the soul is going to have a lot of difficulty determining any Truth and also a lot of difficulty feeling any happiness and joy or any other emotion.

This is why people do get to the stage in their development on Earth and sometimes in the spirit world where they feel almost devoid of emotion, devoid of that kind of understanding. They can't understand it because they have only developed their mind and the organs that understand these other qualities are all undeveloped. They are all lacking development. Humility is lacking development. The heart of the soul is lacking development and so therefore love can't be understood, humility can't be understood. They can only understand intellectual logical reasoning but the intellectual logical reasoning is flawed because it's not taking into account all these other developments that can happen. The way God has made the Universe is that without the entire soul being developed the mind is incapable of understanding the Universe. That's a major limitation obviously.

If we are ever going to grow we need to understand that part of our growth is going to be developing these other parts of our soul that are independent of the mind itself and in fact, that actually control the functioning of the mind itself. We need to understand that the development of the soul is the most important thing, not the development of the mind. The mind has severe limitations in terms of its development. It's only capable of responding to stimuli without analysing very clearly the source of the stimuli based on other emotional aspects of the soul or other organs within the soul. For example, the mind by itself is often incapable of determining love as a feeling, because it's incapable of feeling love. The mind is incapable of accepting information about any subject unless humility is developed. Unless the soul that's behind the mind has humility, the mind itself won't absorb any new Truth on any subject that the soul does not have humility about. And so you can see that the mind is severely limited in its ability to reason, its ability to absorb Truth, its ability to determine what the Truths of the Universe are and so forth. While we focus on our mind we continue to completely limit our abilities.

**Interviewer:** It would be a really sad existence to have just your mind and no feelings whatsoever. We wouldn't be human anymore would we?

That's right. And it's actually a physical impossibility to have just your mind and not feelings. Every single person who thinks they are developing their mind and their intellect does eventually have joy and feelings as a result of their development. For example, let's say that you are in one of your passions and one of your passions is finding out about the brain. As you find out more about the brain you have some joy, which is actually a feeling of the soul, come up. It's not something that happened in your mind. The joy came from a different place within you. It didn't come from the development of your mind; you're engaging your mind and eventually understanding something, that process of feeling that you understand. You know how you go through "... I'm confused ... I'm confused ... oh, now I get it!" - that feeling. Once you have that transition from "I'm confused" into "I get it," you can feel your soul leap with an emotion and that's immaterial to the mind. It's not the mind having that sensation now. It's another organ that has been developed within the soul. From a practical perspective, even the people who feel that they are 100% focused on the development of their mind are actually developing their soul because, through the development of their mind they have these different experiences of joy and other emotions that occur that starts developing their soul anyway.

From what I've observed it's a physical impossibility to not develop your soul in some way. The key is to engage it directly, in a manner where we're not ignorant, where we have full disclosure of what's going on. For the majority of people, because we don't understand what's really going on we don't know what we're developing. In fact the emotions almost seem to be something that you can't develop, you just have them.

**Interviewer:** They're annoying and someone else's fault.

Well, they could be annoying side effects if they're painful, and if they're pleasurable they're great. "I'll accept those." But either way we still see them as side effects. We don't really see them as the actual things that we can develop that are a part of our soul. We see them as sort of the side effect of following a course of action or exercising our will in a certain direction, but the reality is that these are parts of our soul and our soul can be developed so much so that the soul's functioning controls the mind completely. Everything our mind chooses to do and every thought that we ever have is driven totally by the other parts or the other organs that exist within the soul.

I feel, as an introduction, the key thing for people to remember is that God designed the soul to have a mind, but the mind is not the soul. The mind is an organ of the soul. The mind is a part of the soul and the soul has these other parts, and many other parts of the soul are much more important than the mind because they control the mind. They control how the mind thinks. They control everything that it processes. These other organs, organs of love, organs of humility, and other organs that exist within a soul, part and parcel of certain parts of the soul itself, they all need to be developed if we are truly going to grow as humanity, not just our mind. Our mind will subsequently come along for the ride, because it's completely subordinate to the soul itself. Whether we think it's subordinate or not, it is still subordinate. Even if we believe that our mind is superior and our soul is not being developed in any way our mind is still subordinate to many of the functionings of the soul. It's just that we're not conscious of it, in our mind, because we don't wish to be. Like I said, anything that we are not humble about, we won't be able to process. Even though it might be happening, we still won't be able to process it.

I feel that if most people understood those things, we can introduce some basic concepts of how the soul works in comparison to the mind. If they don't understand that the soul is the dominant part of ourselves, and remember here, that we're talking about the half of the soul. Really, in the end we want to be connected with our other half of the soul, but initially we need to develop our half of the soul, the part that we are connected to with this body, before we can ever expect to connect with the other half of the soul. The half of the soul uses the sensory apparatus of the physical and spirit bodies in order to experience both of those worlds. If we have that basic understanding then we will start to get some of the principles we are going to mention when we discuss the different understandings, if you like, of how the soul actually does operate and how I can change my soul and how I can have my soul grow and what resistance is in my soul and how I can determine what's loving and what isn't and how I can determine what is Truth and what isn't. Once we understand how the soul works it will all make sense. All of those things will make sense to us. If we don't understand how the soul works we will often try to develop ourselves in a certain direction only to find it's a dead end and then we generally have to retrace our steps and find the path that's not a dead end anymore. The path that's not a dead end is always God's path. It's always the road to infinite understanding. Do you have any more questions about it in this introductory phase?

**Interviewer:** I do have one. It's about God's intention when God created it this way. The way God intended it was that both the mind of the soul and the mind of the spirit body would just be like tools - from the word "Go" - type of thing?

I think if I could explain it this way it would be better. Remember, if we look at the soul we are talking about half of the soul here. What I'm saying is that the whole soul has a mind and I'm only developing half of it when I develop the mind of my soul. But the spirit body has a complete brain. It's not shared by someone else. It's our brain. Thoughts can be dropped into it from external stimuli but it's our brain completely. The half of the soul connects to a whole brain in the spirit body and a whole brain in the physical body, but the half of the soul only has half of its brain functioning. Without the other half, the full soul's brain cannot be realised. The full soul's mind cannot be realised and we need to understand the difference between these functions. It's the half of the soul that exercises control over the spirit body's brain or the mind of the spirit body. It's the half of the soul that does that, not the complete soul. The complete soul does not need the spirit body's brain at all in order to function. The half of the soul needs the spirit body's brain because it hasn't yet joined to the other half of the soul and therefore is not capable of experiencing all the stimuli that the complete soul can experience in terms of learning. Until such time as it voluntarily undertakes the process of joining with the other half of itself it will never have that functioning.

While we remain half of a soul, while we remain independent of our soul mate and don't go through soul union, we need the half of the soul's mind. It is only half of the soul's mind or brain, and it needs the spirit body's mind in order to experience itself. But as you grow and grow into a soul union state, in that state the mind of the soul doesn't need any spirit body mind in order to express itself because it now has the complete functioning organ of its own mind in order to express itself in a logical manner, whereas when we are just half of a soul we must have a connection to a spirit body form and we need to use the spirit body's mind in order to express ourselves. But we've still got half of the soul's brain that we are using in order to express ourselves through that spirit body's mind.

**Interviewer:** That makes sense.

It's relatively logical when you think about it all. We've got half of our soul which is what we see as our real self, but really only half of our real selves. I'm sitting here but the other half of me is somewhere else at the moment and the other half of you is somewhere else but we have also our half of our brain in our soul that we can develop. That usually only starts developing when we make the transition between the 6th and 7th dimension of the spirit world.

**Interviewer:** So it's not a graded development?

It is a graded development but we usually first notice that something is different by the time we hit the 7th dimension. Up until that point the mind usually remains dominant still. Our own spirit body's mind remains dominant, but the development of the soul's mind usually begins right down in the 2nd and 3rd dimensions of the spirit world when we start developing our spiritual natures and our emotional natures. This is what causes, or triggers, the development of the soul and the development of the soul's mind. That begins way way earlier but we usually get to a point where we notice it. If we have followed the Divine Way, God's Way, we will notice it earlier in our development than if we follow natural love development. If we follow the natural love development, which is our own way, we can even get to the 6th dimension of the spirit world and not know that our soul's mind has been developed in any way or that we even have a soul.

**Interviewer:** Can you give an example of what difference you might notice as you're using your soul's mind?

The soul's mind, remember, is connected to these other organs. These other organs include love, humility, the expression of emotion, the expression of affection. All of these, which we could define as emotional aspects, are of the soul. You will find that a person who's developing their soul becomes more emotional. You can also feel more from them. You feel more of their personality. You feel more of their nature. It's not like they are a rigid intellectual being anymore. They are a soft, changing personality that you can sense and feel quite strongly at times. In fact, you can feel the love that's in them and you can quite readily feel the other emotions that are in them as well. They haven't shut those particular things down. That's an indication that their soul has started developing and the soul's mind is now starting to be affected by that development.

Whereas a person who tries hard, almost like the Buddhist way, trying hard to suppress desire and emotion and feeling, they are trying hard to use their mind to control their soul. Now of course, that's a physical impossibility in the end. You can't actually do it. No one historically has ever successfully done it. The reason that's the case is that God created the mind to be subordinate to the soul and not the other way around. God created the mind to be an organ of the soul and not the other way around. The soul is not an organ of the mind. For that reason it's impossible, in fact, to suppress our soul using our mind, using our intellect. That's why you see the soul of the person come out at times. Even if a person is very intellectual in their development, you'll see their joy come out, you'll see other desires come out as they express themselves. That's the soul being developed. That's the part of them that is the real part of them.

This soul can be developed consciously but for the majority of humanity at this point in time the soul is unconsciously developing. As a person develops their mind, learns new things, they experience certain joy and that causes their soul to feel some things and therefore become developed. That's the way most people develop at this point in time. But instead of doing that we could engage the soul's development which is what I chose to do in the first century and what every person who's become a celestial spirit has chosen to do. And we can do this on earth. We can engage the development of the soul rather than the development of the mind. As a result of engaging the development of the soul, the mind will subsequently develop more rapidly, because the mind is controlled by organs of the soul. Most people don't realise that at this point. For example, the soul's ability to feel controls how the mind thinks. The soul's ability to love controls how the mind thinks, controls its choices, controls its logical reasoning. The soul's ability to be humble controls what the mind can absorb, in terms of knowledge.

So we can see that if we develop our soul then our mind will have greater capacity to develop and greater capacity for understanding. If we don't develop our soul our mind has no capacity for understanding at all if we are not careful. This is why people who don't develop any part of their soul, which is very hard to do of course consciously, you can't really do it consciously, but people who spend very little time developing their soul also become very illogical in their understanding of the Universe. They have all sorts of theories that they believe as facts that are impossible to substantiate and they are very illogical in their reasoning because all of the organs of their soul aren't being used to determine the Truth. Only the mind is, and the mind's trying to operate independently of these other organs which are all going to control how the mind absorbs Truth.

It's very important for people to understand that they will not be able to receive love through their mind. They will not be able to receive Truth through their mind. The mind can be involved in the process but it's not going to be the thing that controls the absorption of Love or Truth. And if we're developing towards God, Love and Truth are the two things that we are wanting, or seeking, and we're going to struggle if we use our mind to seek those two things. Are there any other questions you have about it?

**Interviewer:** No

What we could say in summary to the introduction to this material is that we must understand that the soul has an organ called the mind but it is just a subordinate part of the soul. The soul has many other organs and many other things that we can develop that are more important than our mind and if we do not develop them our mind will also be unable to develop fully. The spirit body's brain, which spirits and people on earth often refer to as the mind, is just a part of that functioning of the soul's mind. The more dominant we become in terms of our material state, the more it will turn out that we suppress the ability of the soul to understand Truth, suppress the soul's ability to understand the Universe around us. God designed us purposefully with a soul so that we could come to understand everything in the Universe, but man is suppressing the soul most of the time and for that reason they are struggling to understand the Universe and they are struggling with their mind to understand even their own bodies, let alone the Universe. As soon as we start to allow the soul to be a part of the absorption of knowledge then we will stop struggling to understand the Universe and all these new Truths. There will be many myriads of Truths arriving to humanity through this process. All these new Truths will start to be absorbed by the soul and as a result the soul has a greater capacity to understand the Universe. I think that's a great thing, the way God's created it. God's created it in such a way that we have complete capacity to eventually understand everything that God's created if we develop our soul and not just our mind. Thanks.

1. What is preclusion?

Probably the first principle that I would like to introduce is the principle of preclusion as it relates to the soul. I want to explain to people that these principles are just names that I have given things; they are just labels that I've given to a certain type of understanding. If we can describe the understanding then they'll be able to associate the label with the understanding.

**Interviewer:** Would you like to describe what preclusion is?

Yeah. Preclusion is the principle based upon this basic premise about how the soul operates and how God created the soul. God created the soul so that truth and error cannot exist in it at the same time. Preclusion is this basic understanding that while truth exists on a certain subject inside the soul, an error on that same subject inside the soul cannot exist. The same applies with errors. While an error exists within the soul on a certain subject truth cannot exist at the same time on that same subject; it precludes truth from existing.

So error and truth that exist in the soul are independent of each other in the way that truth and error cannot exist on the same subject at the same time in the same soul. It can help us a lot if we understand this, if we understand that that is the case. I feel that preclusion helps us to understand that while I might have certain beliefs in my mind it doesn't necessarily mean they have entered my soul, because that particular belief entering into the soul will depend upon whether error or truth already exist in the soul about that particular thing. The error precludes the truth from existing if the error already exists in the soul.

This is about the state or condition of the soul right now. It's not about some future state or how change happens or any of those things. It's really a statement about what the state of my soul is, right in this moment, the state of my soul right at this moment on a particular issue or subject; this is my state. While error exists inside of my soul on that subject, it's impossible, no matter how much I think it's possible, it's impossible for truth inside my soul to exist on the same subject.

**Interviewer:** So that could be any feeling or belief?

Yes. It relates to beliefs, it relates to feelings, it relates to all sorts of issues. Remember that our soul is the feeling part of us. Remember that the dominant organs of the soul are not the mind of the soul but the emotional parts of the soul, the heart, the humility; they are the dominant parts of our soul. That's what controls what happens in our minds. Something might enter our mind externally, you might tell me a truth about the Universe, but while I have an emotion in me, or feeling or belief inside of my soul that is different to that truth that you've told me it's impossible for me to absorb it into my soul, that truth. I have to get rid of the error first.

We'll talk about that process as a separate process because that's the process or the change that has to occur to the soul in order to absorb truth. This idea or understanding of preclusion is about the state as it is right now and I feel that a lot of people don't understand the current state of their soul because they don't understand this basic principle. They think that what exists in their mind is the truth about what exists in their soul. This is also why psychologists have come up with the concept of unconscious behaviour, what they call a lack of conscious behaviour, or 'the subconscious,' is eventually what they've called it. The reason we have the so-called 'subconscious' is that our soul has a completely different idea or concept on a particular subject to what our mind does and it's always our soul that dominates our mind. It's always our soul that dominates our actions and everything we choose to do. It even dominates our thoughts in the end. This so-called concept of 'subconscious' has been created because of not understanding this idea of preclusion.

**Interviewer:** So for someone that wants to know what their soul condition is, that's quite pertinent to this point, isn't it?

Of course!

**Interviewer:** It's to look with honesty at what they're feeling and also to look at their actions.

Exactly! Look at the actions and the feelings. A lot of people are not very sensitive to their feelings of course, so probably the best approach is to look at the actions, what your soul is attracting, because that will tell you the truth. When I say "What your soul is attracting," there is a law called the Law of Attraction that controls how things come to you from the Universe. How it works is that a soul in a certain condition will attract certain things in order to expose its condition whether the mind of that person believes they have that condition or not.

This is what I see with a lot of spiritual development on the planet. For example, take the average Christian. The average Christian probably thinks they believe in the Ten Commandments and in the commandments I gave in the first century of - "You must love your God with your whole heart, your whole mind and your whole strength and love your neighbour as yourself," right? They might feel or they might think that that's what they believe. But the reality is that as soon as a war comes along, a lot of the time they are the first person to enter it, particularly if their own family or their own country is being threatened. Now if the law of loving your neighbour as yourself had truly entered their soul, they could never contemplate going to war ... ever.

That tells me that the feeling of loving your neighbour as yourself has yet to be created inside of the soul. Instead there is another feeling that's there already, which is "I'm able to kill my brother, my sister, my neighbour under certain conditions if they threaten me," for example. "I should kill them if they threaten my life or they threaten the life of my family or they try to rape my partner. Under certain conditions I can kill them." That's their thought. That is proof, if you like, that the actual feeling of loving your neighbour has yet to enter their soul. All that's happened is that they've had the thought that they should love their neighbour and they think that in doing what the Bible says they've actually honoured or obeyed that particular command. But the reality is that that particular command and the desire itself to do so has not entered their soul because they are willing to go to war.

That's an example of how the mind might think one thing and the soul be in a completely different state. With this idea of preclusion we start to understand why it's in a different state, because the feeling of 'loving my neighbour' has not entered my soul. I just have it my mind as a thought and this is the problem with the mind. The mind can have both error and truth on the same subject in it at the same time, whereas the soul cannot. It's impossible to have error and truth in the soul at the same time on the same subject. That's what the idea of preclusion is all about. We must understand that it's impossible for our soul to have the same thing in it on the same subject at the same time but with different opinions.

That's a beautiful thing if you think about it. I can then go, "What are my real feelings, what are the real thoughts of my soul?" The real thoughts of my soul are, "I'm willing ..." in this case that we gave," I'm willing to go to war under certain circumstances." So the feeling of loving my neighbour as myself is definitely not in my soul. It's just a thought. It's just an intellectual concept or idea that I'm not actually following for some reason. Once I know that, I can then start to investigate what the reason may be. But if I don't know that I will probably never investigate the reason. I'll probably just logically justify why I should be able to go to war and kill my brother under certain circumstances.

And this is where the mind becomes totally unreasonable, because the mind will justify the soul's error. The reason why it does is that we often want to retain the error in the soul and we don't want to change our soul to accept the new thing, for emotional reasons. There are emotional reasons why we don't.

**Interviewer:** Okay, we came up with another example here which is the truth that the soul, the real me, is the pinnacle of God's creation.

When a person first hears that truth they usually go "Yeah, I get that. We're a pretty amazing creation. If you look at humanity, we've got our free will. None of the other creatures in the universe seem to have that; that we've met anyway. And then you know, we have this concept that we are the pinnacle of creation, we're a pretty amazing creation."

**Interviewer:** But then they want to go out and get drunk.

Exactly! And they justify getting drunk. How does this work? On the one hand we're saying that we are the pinnacle of God's creation, but on the other hand we're acting like we're not, in the sense that we're harming ourselves. I'll give you more of a background on that. We know that when we drink alcohol, usually if we do it to excess, we wake up in the morning with a very sore body and sore head. We also know that it kills brain cells; even a small portion of alcohol kills brain cells if we ingest it. Bearing that in mind, if we really believed we were the pinnacle of the creation of God, do you think we would really drink alcohol? The fact that I desire to drink it, you know, if the person does desire to drink it, I don't any more, but the fact that somebody desires to drink it is proof that the other truth, that I am the pinnacle of God's creation is yet to enter my soul; it has only entered my mind. And it cannot enter my soul because something else already exists in my soul and that something else is willing to determine my actions of even killing the brain of my physical body under certain circumstances. I'm willing to take an action that results in the destruction of my brain which is an indication that I have not yet really accepted that I am the pinnacle of the creation of God.

**Interviewer:** Yes, there are emotions in there that they are wanting to escape from that are quite the opposite of being the pinnacle of God's creation.

Exactly. There's something inside of the soul which causes them to feel that they are not the pinnacle of God's creation even though in their mind they think they have accepted that particular concept.

**Interviewer:** Okay. Do you want me to give the other example?

Sure.

**Interviewer:** The other example was: The Truth is, "It's not loving to be violent." We sort of touched on this with the Christian example. And the error is "I want to punch that guy in the face." (Laughing)

Yeah. I think the average person on the planet would shy away from violence under most circumstances. However, there are times when the average person on the planet feels that violence is justified.

**Interviewer:** Like sometimes when you are watching a movie and you think, you know, "I'm really loving and I wouldn't want them to be violent." And then you're like, "Go and get them."

Yeah, "Go and get them!" That's right. And that emotion of "Go and get them! Be violent now," that has triggered something that's inside of the soul, that already exists in the soul. When you think about it, the thought "I want to be loving all the time," is really just a thought under those circumstances, because if you have enough stimulus in a certain direction whatever is in the soul will become the truth. If the soul says "I'm willing to justify violence under certain circumstances" then you'll justify violence under those circumstances every single time. Even if that means somebody dies as a result of those actions, you would still justify violence under those circumstances.

That is an indication of this preclusion concept. That's this idea that while in my soul I have a justification of violence under certain circumstances, it is impossible for me, no matter how much I exercise my mind, it is impossible for me to be loving under all of those circumstances. I will even use my mind for a justification for the underlying flawed emotion in order to express that flawed emotion.

If once we understand this, if we are talking about love and how it affects us, then if I am going to become more loving, at some point I have to understand that there are things inside of my soul that preclude me from becoming more loving while they exist in my soul.

So I can hear the truth, and I find this happening a lot with people that come along to our seminars, they hear the truth, they like what they hear but it's only a thought based on what they like. It has not actually entered their soul yet. Because if you put them in a situation, sometimes the very situation I've described in the seminar, they immediately act out of harmony with love, which is an indication that the love hasn't touched their soul enough for the truth to enter their soul yet about that particular thing. The only reason why that's occurred is this concept of preclusion. While an error exists in the soul on the same subject the truth cannot enter them. They will not be able to change while the error remains in their soul on the same subject. It's impossible for them to change.

Now they can think they've changed, but that matters not, it doesn't matter at all. That's why a lot of people revert to this 'subconscious' concept. They go, "I thought I'd changed but something just happened and something flicked in me and I just went and did it anyway. That's my subconscious is it? That's what my subconscious determined?" Well no, it's what your soul's error has determined. If you understood the soul's error you could have released that error and it wouldn't have determined it. Of course once the error no longer exists in the soul, it now no longer determines that course of action, of conduct, and it no longer determines the reasoning of your mind. It no longer determines it in the same direction.

You could talk to the average person on this planet about violence. If we get it back to that example: the average person on the planet has a mind that says and justifies logically to them - they think they have logical arguments and reasons - for justifying violence. Like, most people on the planet feel they have a logical reason for justifying violence. If you look at the results of violence in the course of history, you can see that there's really no justification for it, ever. In fact, if you look at the results from a logical perspective you'd think, "Wow, every single time somebody has reverted to violence there's extra pain and suffering and probably, oftentimes, more violence; every single time. Its only when somebody's forgiven when that hasn't occurred." But the logical mind of somebody who has that feeling in their heart can't absorb that. They don't understand the principles of forgiveness, and they will not be able to understand the principle of forgiveness until their desire in their soul, of wanting, under certain circumstances, to be violent has left them. Until it leaves them they will continue in their own mind justifying violence, even seeing and observing the negative outcomes of such violence. It won't have an effect logically on them.

**Interviewer:** And they're in denial about their own contribution, their own feelings as to what's actually happening?

Totally! Of course; because their feelings are contributing to violence in fact. This is why there's this statement that some people have made, that violence begets violence. And it does. That's the reality. If I'm violent towards you, unless you are of very high development in love you will probably want to be violent back towards me. Of course, people today feel that no matter how highly developed they are in love they should be violent back because they believe that the original violence justifies the subsequent violence. But over tens of thousands of years, we've had this record in humanity where every time violence has been engaged and somebody has responded with violence the situation has worsened, not improved. So we have proof, evidence that this is not true but very few people on earth accept it logically because they have in their soul the justification. The justification, while it remains in their soul will determine even their logic. While the justification exists it will determine how they think.

And that's the concept of preclusion. To remind everyone, the concept of preclusion is basically this concept that while an error exists in the soul on a certain subject at a certain time it is impossible for the truth to exist in the soul on the same subject at the same time. The error precludes the truth from existing. By the way, the flip side is also true with preclusion. While a truth exists within the soul on a certain subject at this time it is impossible for error to actually be felt by the same soul at the same time on the same subject. That is also a truth.

So you can see that this is a great thing if you think about it. If we allow the errors to be released and we are then able to absorb the truth then we can change, our soul can change and our reasoning will change and our logic will change, everything will change, as a result of understanding that basic principle. Which brings us to the next point really; we will stop in a minute and talk about that.

**Interviewer:** So you can release the error and absorb the truth. Is it possible to release the truth and absorb an error?

Of course! We'll talk about absorption in a minute and the possibilities involved. But, yes of course, this happens very frequently.

**Interviewer:** For children?

No, for adults on this planet it also happens frequently. Under certain stimuli, and we'll talk about those particular stimuli, but yes, it's certainly possible for the soul to release a truth and absorb an error. Obviously it depends on how much the soul desires that truth or desires the error as to how well that occurs.

So that's our first topic; our topic of preclusion. Remember that preclusion is just a label for this idea or concept that while a certain error exists in the soul on a certain subject at this time, the truth will not be able to exist in the soul on the same subject. And that's what the principle of preclusion is all about. Thanks Luli.

2. What is absorption?

So now we come to the second concept that we need to understand if we're going to truly understand the development of our own soul. That's the concept of absorption, or understanding absorption.

**Interviewer:** Would you like to tell us what absorption is?

Well, it's the principle that we cannot change unless the thing preventing change is released from us. If we state it more carefully: "I cannot absorb any new truth," or let's state it another way, "I cannot have truth flow into my soul, while error exists in the soul on that same subject. And I cannot have new error being absorbed into the soul, or flowing into the soul, if truth exists in the soul on the same subject."

So this process of absorption is all about the change that occurs in the soul. Remember the first point, where preclusion was about the state of the soul. The second point is about how we can make the soul change from its state to a new state. What we're basically saying is: The state of the soul cannot change unless somehow the error that's in the soul that causes the state to remain the same, or the truth in the soul that causes the state to remain the same is somehow released, is given up. There's got to be a process by which we can give up both truth and error if we want to. And there is, and we can discuss that in another point.

This concept of absorption is: we cannot have a truth or an error absorbed into our soul while the opposite thing already exists in the soul at the same time on the same subject. If we understood this truth, you know, really understood this at the soul level, we would give up trying to learn new things with our mind without going through some kind of process that allows those particular things to be absorbed into our heart, into our soul. We'd give up that entire process if we understood this.

**Interviewer:** What about if you're learning a new truth but there's no error in your soul opposing that?

Then the truth will enter immediately. It will just go straight in. It will flow in because there is an emotional openness to the absorption of that truth. The same applies to the error of course. If there is no truth in the soul on a certain subject and there's no error in the soul on the same subject then the soul is also emotionally open to absorbing error as well as truth.

This is what it is like for a child. The child when they first incarnate and they are first conceived, from that moment on they are absorbing everything in their environment without check, without any resistance, because they start with a blank soul without any truth or error in it. Because there is no truth or error in it, in that blank soul, they can absorb anything. They can absorb truth and error. If the parents are in a high amount of truth then the child would start absorbing a lot of that truth. If the parents are in a high amount of error then the child starts absorbing the error. What normally happens of course on the planet is that the parents are in an average amount of truth and an average amount of error. As a result of that, the child also absorbs the same errors and truths that the parents have, and starts acting upon them as they develop in their brain, as they develop in their mind.

**Interviewer:** Would you say that this absorption is the experience of the truth as it enters you?

I don't feel that the truth is an entity, because an entity implies a being or a person. But the truth itself is available on any particular subject, and yes it is; the process of absorption is the experiencing of the truth, not as an intellectual concept or thought, but rather as an emotional experience. This is why I often say in presentations to people that the truth is emotional. You can't accept a new truth without going through an emotion. In fact usually you can't accept a new truth without going through two emotions. The first emotion is the release of the error and this is the concept that we'll discuss further in another section, and the second emotion is the absorption of the truth.

So the reality is, yes, the truth is an experience that you have to go through. It's not ever going to be an intellectual concept if it's going to change your soul. There are plenty of people who have heard the truth in their mind but it hasn't changed their soul. If you put the same stimulus from an event onto their soul, some kind of trigger that hits their soul, they'll react completely differently to what their mind would have suggested to them, because the truth hasn't entered their soul yet. The only way the truth is going to enter their soul is for the error in their soul to go through some kind of process of release.

We'll talk about the process of release as another point, but we need to understand this concept that we can't absorb new truth while error is existing; we can't even absorb new error while the truth is existing, so that's great too. When we get to the point where we have absorbed a new truth into our soul that is in harmony with God's Truth - and now remember, every time I'm referring to truth here, I'm referring to the absolute Truth of God - we can't absorb that truth into our soul while an error exists. But also, if the truth already exists in our soul we are going to be impervious to error as well; which is fantastic. It means that we can't be manipulated in any way away from the truth on that point.

**Interviewer:** But you said it is possible to release a truth and absorb an error?

Of course it is.

**Interviewer:** What might be an example of that?

Well, that often happens during our childhood. For example, one experience in our childhood that most people have had, is where they are two or three years of age and for the very first time in their lives they get belted by their parent for doing something. Now, in that moment there is a deep confusion within the soul of the child. Up until that point in time the child has only received what you would call loving responses from its parent. The child has never had an experience of violence from its parents before that point, not physical violence that has created physical pain in their body. All of a sudden the parent reverts to some kind of physical action that is violent towards the child; that's an assault on the child.

Now the child goes through a great deal of confusion in that place, because it's never experienced that before. It has only ever experienced what we would say would be the more loving feelings from the parent; now generally if that happens once the child usually goes through a whole set of confusions. If it happens again, and then again, on any subject, the child begins to accept the error, and give up the concept that something is wrong. Initially it knows something is wrong because of the pain it experiences. But after a while it gives up the concept that something is wrong and after a while it even starts to justify; once we ourselves become adults we often justify the physical punishing violence that was being perpetrated by parents towards us in our childhood. We justify it, saying "I was a bad child" or whatever, so we've actually come to the point of completely accepting the error by that stage.

**Interviewer:** So it can be a progressive thing?

Definitely! Yes, a smidgen of truth gets lost; a smidgen of error gets absorbed as a result. A bit more truth gets lost, another error absorbed as a result and so on and so forth until such point in time that the error is like a mountain and the truth is like a molehill. Therefore the truth doesn't govern our actions anymore; the errors govern all of our actions.

Now of course the same process can happen in reverse. The error can be released a bit at a time and a bit of truth can be absorbed about that particular thing. An example is, if I was talking about this truth of my parents assaulting me during my childhood by using what we would call 'punishing the child,' or what we call 'disciplining the child' through a violent act. I would argue that there is no such thing as disciplining a child through a violent act, not from a loving perspective. But we won't arrive at that condition initially, just instantly, because we have all these concepts inside of our soul that it is a loving act for the parent to sometimes restrict the child's actions through violence. We believe it because it happened to us and it happened to us through a lot of our childhood, so we have come to accept that.

In terms of releasing that I would go through, "Oh that really hurt that my mum and dad did that," and as an adult we might process some of that hurt, you know, that we got hit quite frequently, and initially it usually starts by feeling the things we got hit about that we didn't deserve. We knew we didn't do something wrong and they still violently attacked us in some way. After a while we have released that emotion, so now we've released the emotion that we didn't deserve being attacked for things that we didn't do. We've released that at least. Now we can accept the truth that nobody deserves to be attacked for things that they didn't do. The result of that truth entering us may be that we need to make sure of our facts before we go attacking anybody.

But we may still believe that our parents were loving even though they attacked us at other times when we felt we deserved it. Then we go through another emotion when we realise we only feel we deserved it because our parents felt we deserved it. Really we felt we deserved it because they felt we deserved it and it was actually like some kind of emotional blackmail or, we could call it, almost an emotional programming that caused us to accept that we deserved it. Then we process through that emotionally and we release that emotion. "You know, I've just accepted my parent's definition of the world all the time. I've accepted their definition of what's right and what's wrong." I process through that and then I realise I don't have to accept what my parents believe is right or wrong all the time, and then I start to realise that a lot of the things that my parents said were right, are actually wrong from a perspective of love.

So now I've grown a little more, in accepting more truth. After that I generally go through another process where I start realising, "Wow, I got punished for all those things they said were right and I didn't deserve to be punished." And now I process that emotionally. I release all of that emotion, going through the process of forgiveness of them in the process of releasing that emotion, and now I come to terms with the fact that I didn't deserve to be hit, ever. Once I get to that point, I'll realise that actually when my parents hit me they were committing a violent assault. Once I hit that point I'll have a big bawl or cry about it, probably, if I want to release the error of that, that they have actually assaulted me. My parents have assaulted me and in fact they assaulted me many times during my childhood and if they had done that to an adult they'd probably be in jail, still in jail for how many times they assaulted me as a child. If they had done that to another adult, they would have been put in jail many times as a result for that particular offence.

Then I feel about all of that and release that emotionally and forgive them for that. We go through that emotionally. Once I come out of all of that, I am very firm now with the truth, and the truth is that nobody, no matter what their age, deserves to be assaulted. That now is a truth that is firmly in my soul. Nobody can shift it. It doesn't matter how many people attack me and how many people justify their actions through God or the Bible or through some other book, I will be immovable, because all of the error on the subject has now been released and I now know the truth, that any form of assault on my person is an unloving act.

And that's how it usually happens. It's this gradual flow. When I say any truth on a particular subject, I'm talking about that process. In the process I've just described for example, which is really a subset of the actual process, you can see that there was a little bit of truth that I had to come to terms with and then the error could be released and I could come to terms with that truth. Initially I receive it intellectually. I think about it and think about it to the point where I get to releasing the emotion. Once I release the emotion, now the truth can enter me as a solid fact, and that's how change occurs. That's the principle of absorption.

**Interviewer:** Can I use another example?

Sure.

**Interviewer:** In growing faith, as you grow towards God and you experiment with the laws, you might have an experience where the Law of Attraction feeds something back to you and you're like, "Oh, I've had that experience." So I believe the Law of Attraction a little bit but not totally.

Not on every subject.

**Interviewer:** No, just a little bit and then you have another experience and then believe it a little bit more?

Yes.

**Interviewer:** So that's the same process?

In the positive direction.

**Interviewer:** Yeah. So you just have more and more experiences, having released an error associated with it?

Exactly! So initially we may have this feeling that the Law of Attraction is just terrible. "There's no such thing, no such thing as the Law of Attraction," you know, "What happens to me just happens." Then something might happen which seemed to be related to something that you thought about and then you start going, "Maybe I should experiment with this." That in itself is a shift, of truth, but yet to be determined emotionally because it has not entered emotionally. But to get to that point I've probably usually had to release the anger and rage I have that there is such a thing as a Law of Attraction.

So I've released a bit of anger and rage about this concept, the Law of Attraction. Usually I do that by hearing somebody talk about the Law of Attraction and I say "That's a load of rubbish," and all this anger comes up in me. That's where I'm releasing the blockage towards the concept. And then something might happen in my life that causes me to think, "Wow, what they said may be true." I might experiment with that because I've now released a lot of the anger about it. I'm now willing to concede that it's possibly true. Now the anger's been released there's a little bit of a shift regarding the Law of Attraction. And then something happens in my life that seems to be a very big event and related to something that I definitely do feel and I go, "Ah, that's interesting." Or even before then I could have some truth presented to me about the Law of Attraction. Initially it might be something like the New Age version of the Law of Attraction, which is this concept that you can think your way out of anything, pretty much.

And then I try to think my way out of something and it doesn't work at all and I get all angry and rageful about it and upset with the whole concept and give it all up. And there's some more emotion released. And then somebody presents the concept of the Law of Attraction to me that it's actually to do with your emotions guiding your Law of Attraction, what's going on in terms of what you attract. And then, well yeah, I've now given up all blockages to the belief, the denial of the belief, the concept that it's an intellectual process has been given up now, now I'm open to the concept that it might be an emotional process.

I can experiment with that, and in the process of doing that I'll learn some things that cause me to give up more emotions and help me come to see eventually that the law is a loving law, based around love. After a while I have so much faith in it that anything that happens to me I always firstly examine myself as I know for certain that it's got to be something in my soul that created it. Eventually I get to that point. But again it's a gradual process. I release a little bit of error, a little bit of truth comes in. I release another little bit of error, another little bit of truth on the same subject that I've just released comes in and so forth, until I get to the point where it has built into a mountain of truth that has been absorbed by my soul and I'm now solid in the concept.

**Interviewer:** And in that process, the incremental process, is that when confusion can happen?

Well yes, because at that point in time you've got bits and pieces of the truth on different subjects all in there. Because you've had to release the error about that bit, the truth about that bit can enter you, but the error about all the bits hasn't been released so the truth about all the bits cannot be absorbed.

During that phase we often go through what you classify as doubt or sometimes what you classify as regression. If we got some kind of evidence to the contrary that we didn't understand, that we attribute with our mind to being a flawed concept we might absorb that error as well; we might go through little cycles in amongst all of that. And that does frequently happen for people, where they're not comfortable with the concept of doubt. As you know, doubt creates a lot of discomfort internally, emotionally; emotional discomfort and most people are not willing to release emotional discomfort. In other words, they're not willing to feel emotional discomfort, not understanding that the emotional discomfort itself is an error.

Why are we so uncomfortable not knowing? It's because generally when we were children and we didn't know something we were often humiliated, laughed at, sometimes ridiculed and sometimes even punished for not knowing, when it was a sincere case of our just not knowing. And so when we don't know as an adult we actually have quite a lot of fear associated with not knowing, and as a result that's one of the errors that needs to be released: our fear about not knowing. From God's perspective there is no fear in not knowing. If we lived in a Universe where we were never punished for not knowing something, or never laughed at for not knowing something, never humiliated for not knowing something, then I doubt we would ever have any blockages to not knowing something. I doubt whether we would worry about what we do or don't know.

**Interviewer:** We'd be like two year olds.

We'd be like two year olds who have never been punished, never been controlled, never been laughed at. We would just go, "Mummy daddy this, mummy daddy that", you know, "What's going on here, what's going on there? why? why? why?" When my son was two, he was "Why" everything. And that's what we would be like in the universe we lived in. We wouldn't have any worry about that place. We wouldn't feel like anybody is looking down on us in that place. We wouldn't ever be concerned about that place, even if we were an adult.

But again we can only get to that place by releasing the error. And the error has usually been absorbed through our childhood experience, absorbed into our soul, and now we have this feeling in our soul that says, "If I don't know something, someone's going to make fun of me. If I don't know something, someone's going to make me feel humiliated. If I don't know something, somebody's going to punish me." If I've been violently abused as a child when I didn't know, "When I don't know something, somebody's going to torture me," you know. In the end that might be the strength of that emotion, which is very overpowering. Unless that error is released, unless that emotion inside of me that's determining that reasoning is released, I will find it very difficult to go through doubt. I'll be in a panic every time I'm in doubt as a result.

**Interviewer:** There's another example.

Sure.

**Interviewer:** Still on absorption obviously. Violence: the truth is that violence towards anyone is not loving and the error is, "That person made me angry," so violence towards them is fine. It's justified.

Yeah. We brought this example up in the first principle too. But remember, the first principle, which was preclusion, was about the state of the soul. While I have a feeling inside of me, preclusion says a feeling of the opposite type cannot exist in me at the same time. That's the case with preclusion.

Let's say that I want to absorb into my soul the idea that no form of violence is acceptable, that all forms of violence are unloving. Let's say I'd like to absorb that concept into my soul but inside of my soul at the present point, and I admit to myself that it is present right at this moment, is this idea or concept that violence under certain conditions is loving. You can see from this example that I would need to look at the conditions under which I define violence as okay. I would have to release some error about those particular beliefs in order to fully accept that no form of violence is a loving act. That means that for the new concepts to be absorbed in my soul I'm going to have to go through some kind of process that allows me to see the error and to see what we could call the characteristics or attributes of the error. It might only be under certain circumstances; for example, I might only justify violence if my child is being harmed. I'm still justifying violence but only under a very slight or very slim definition.

**Interviewer:** Socially acceptable definition.

Yeah. Often socially acceptable. Mind you, the murderer justifies violence under a whole lot of very wide definitions. Many of us will become a murderer under certain circumstances. For example, if a woman becomes pregnant from somebody that she doesn't want to be pregnant from, she might justify an abortion which is a murder, under certain circumstances. The fact that she doesn't want the child, she is justifying the abortion. She is justifying the murder. For most people on the planet there is some kind of level of justification of violence under certain circumstances. We need to be willing to find out what the error is, why we justify the violence under those circumstances, and then we need to feel the error, we need to do something with this error, to process it, to release it from our soul so that it is no longer in our soul. Once it's no longer in our soul, this concept of absorption says that the truth will be able to enter us really easily and we'll be able to live by it completely after that point with no impediments whatsoever.

**Interviewer:** I'm not sure this is this point but is that an automatic process or do you have to long to God for that to happen?

Yeah. The truth entering us is not an automatic process just like the error leaving us is not an automatic process.

**Interviewer:** Once the error has left us, is it automatic?

Well it depends, you see. If we are now choosing to do this progression, this change of the soul with God, then we could be longing for God's Love and when this error releases from our soul the Love will enter and the Love will bring with it the truth that we're seeking. But if it's a process we're doing without God then we're not receiving God's Love. We still have the capacity to absorb truth, but it has to be something that we choose to do with our will still.

So it depends on what path we're on, whether we're on the Way, the Divine Love Path as people refer to it, 'The Way' to God or whether we're on the Natural Love Path which is not the way to God but the way to becoming the perfect natural man. No matter what form of development we choose there will be this process of having to release an error and absorb the truth. How rapidly this occurs will depend on whether we've got God's help to do it or not through receiving Divine Love or not. If we receive Divine Love, it can be a very rapid process. Because Divine Love softens our soul, it can be a very rapid process. If we don't receive Divine Love, because there's not that softening of our soul, then we have to choose to soften our soul which is often a very difficult process to engage, taking a much longer time. But it's still possible. We can become the perfect natural man while we are on Earth. When I say perfect, I mean perfected in love, in terms of our relationship to our fellow men and women while we're on Earth, without God. We don't need to have God in that process. It's much easier to have God in that process but you don't need to have God in the process.

**Interviewer:** But also if you have God in the process, if you absorb the truth immediately after you release the error it kind of solidifies the release of the error and makes you more resilient to more error coming in later.

Exactly. For example, if on the Natural Love Path, we release the errors associated with this concept about violence but we don't yet imbibe the truth, then there is the potential of further error entering our soul, isn't there? But if we've released the error and soon after releasing the error the truth has entered us then there's no more potential of the error being absorbed by the soul after that point. So there are a lot of advantages in doing it God's way, you know, with God's help, than doing it by ourselves. But the reality is that we can choose to do it by ourselves and still change, to the point of the perfect natural man.

So that's all the questions on that subject?

**Interviewer:** Yep.

If we summarise that subject, what we're talking about here with absorption is this principle that we cannot absorb something new unless the old leaves us. The old has to leave us in some kind of process, which we'll define in another section. It has to leave us first, before the new will be absorbed. If we believe we've absorbed the new while we're still conscious the old is within us then the new has only been absorbed into our mind and it has yet to touch our heart.

And that's a very important point because a lot of people think that they have become a different person, but when you put them under pressure they revert back to their old behaviour. The reason why is that their soul has yet to change. They've only thought they've changed. They haven't actually changed yet. I suggest to people who are listening to this that to truly grow in our soul, we must understand how the soul operates and we must understand this principle of absorption. We cannot grow in our soul unless there is some release that occurs that is stopping the growth of our soul. It's impossible for our soul to grow unless some release occurs, particularly if we have error with regard to that particular thing in our soul. It's also impossible for our soul to degrade in its condition once truth is absorbed by the soul. We won't degrade in our condition once truth is absorbed. It's impossible for us to do that too. This is what we need to understand with regard to the soul and how the soul works with regard to absorption.

**Interviewer:** When you said it's impossible to degrade once you've had truth, you said earlier for a child though, they can have repeated experiences where they start releasing a truth.

It's not really different for a child. Remember that the child, when it first incarnates into the parents, has no truth or error in it. It's like a fresh sponge for every truth or error, so it's very dependent on whether the parents have truth or error in them as to what the child will from that moment absorb, and it will obviously be a process of slow absorption over time. It's not going to happen instantly. It will happen over a period of time through experience. The principles are still the same but for a child, because there is no error and no truth to prevent anything, pretty much anything flows into the child, unless that child at some point in the future has some point of view of error or truth.

Now of course these principles are negating the other influences that are upon a child or upon all of us. We must remember that when we talk about the environment we are not only talking about the parents who are with the child but the child is capable of absorbing things from other people who are with it, including spirits who are with the child. All children are given a guide and a guardian from the moment of their conception. That means that the guide and guardian also have the ability to transmit truth or even error to the child and the child accept those truths or errors.

A child often does receive truths without them being in their parents, because they have another person, which is their spirit guide or guardian who's influencing them with the truth, giving them truths which they have then absorbed because they've been open to absorbing those particular truths. So it's not just a simple matter of what happens between the parents and a child; you must remember that the entire environment is affecting the child. That includes the environment of the people who are present on the earth and also the environment of the people around the child who are in the spirit world and they will determine how much truth and error affects the child.

For this reason many children know more truth than their own parents do, because they are receiving the truth from guides or guardians who know the truth and they've been open to the reception of those particular truths because they had no error in them to begin with on those particular subjects.

So, basically once we understand these principles we can explain every single operation within our soul. That's the advantage of understanding the underlying principles. When we ignore these principles we start believing that we've accepted things with our mind but it's impossible for our soul to absorb those things while error exists within the soul.

If we understand this principle of absorption then we will see that it's really a waste of time to try to accept a new truth with our mind without also engaging the process of releasing the error that might prevent the absorption of truth into our soul. We can also start engaging our mind to find the error that prevents the absorption, instead of believing with our mind that everything is fine. Instead we need to go, "No, I can feel in me that I have a different feeling to what I am trying to accept in my mind," and use my mind actively to find what that error is rather than using my mind to deny the error and say, "I've accepted the truth," when I haven't really accepted the truth at all. What's happening around me is proof that I've yet to accept it.

So when I understand absorption I will be far more conscious of using my mind actively to find the errors and release them than I will be trying to absorb truths in my mind only, without releasing error. We can change the way in which we are using our mind into a way that supports the development of our soul rather than opposing the development of our soul. So that's the principle of absorption if we can call it that.

**Interviewer:** We've got something we would like to clarify.

What's that?

**Interviewer:** All of us, it's impossible for a truth to leave an adult once it's in? Like for example if an adult has an horrific experience ...

No, if the truth is actually felt in the soul by the adult it's impossible for it to leave them under any circumstances.

**Interviewer:** So it's only in children that it's possible for it to change?

Yep. For an adult they can act as if they don't remember the truth, but the truth is still within their soul. So it's sort of like ...

**Interviewer:** Is this going to be under dominance or ...?

Well yeah. It depends upon what is still dominant within them obviously. Because if a person honours their soul at all times then it's impossible for them to act out of harmony with their soul. But if the person does not honour the soul at all times then their mind may dominate their thinking and the mind is quite illogical under certain circumstances with certain stimuli, so it may cause them to act in a manner that's out of harmony with the truth they've already accepted in their soul. But once the soul becomes dominant it's impossible. You just can't do it; because to do it would hurt too much.

**Interviewer:** So, say there's an adult who has a truth in their soul about something, about violence for example.

Well, let's say they have one about God. Let's say they believe in God. They know for certain that God exists.

**Interviewer:** And then they have, well I was going to say with the other example, and then they have some horrific experiences in their life that cause them to change. It's impossible for them to change on that subject?

They'll always know that God exists once they've received Divine Love and they've received that truth, they will always know that God exists. But they won't always believe in God's goodness, because there might be the openness to the concept that God is a God of wrath.

So they might change, what appears to be, change their mind. But they haven't really changed their mind. They've never really had a truth or error on the subject exposed until the event and then of course once it's exposed, they act in harmony with the error believing that God is a God of wrath and is somehow punishing them. But that could only have entered them if they had some other error on that subject that existed inside of their soul already.

This is a common one, and that is, their parents were violent towards them and punished them, and said that it was love. So now there's a concept in the adult, who has only believed in a God of Love but now they are starting to accept that God might also be violent, because there is this predisposition within their soul to accepting it already, that they haven't worked their way through yet. It just depends on what they've worked their way through.

**Interviewer:** Shall we talk about this in the next point?

Yeah, can do.

**Interviewer:** If we can wait and use it as an example?

Yeah, can do. The issue is that the majority of people will find it very hard to understand what we are going through, because until they themselves have experienced these changes in their soul, all of what I'm saying is really just an intellectual exercise. Here what I'm trying to do is show them intellectually that they need to engage a different part of themselves other than their intellect. And that's a very difficult task, because in the end, as you know, we have to use words somehow to describe a soul-based process that they are trying to use their intellect to resolve, that they really need to use their soul to resolve.

**Interviewer:** Yeah, because I didn't get it before but now that we're talking about it with examples I can relate back to some experiences that I've had and go, "Oh, now I know what you mean." But when I first read it I was like, "I don't get it."

Yeah. That's how it is for most people. All of these concepts that we've been discussing, we have only discussed two of them at this point, but all of these concepts are soul-based concepts of truth, that the intellect itself struggles to even understand. We're trying to help an intellect that doesn't understand soul-based concepts of truth that can only be understood by the soul itself. It's a very difficult task of course, to explain truths in that way.

What I'm trying to do in this discussion is to help people see how they can measure progress that's actually occurred in their soul and the reasons why they revert to old behaviour. The reasons a person reverts to old behaviour has nothing to do with the fact that they've regressed. They haven't regressed. If something was truly in their soul they could never regress. When they seemingly regress it's because the truth wasn't in their soul in the first place on that subject; it was only in their mind. That's why they can regress.

**Interviewer:** Well, I think so. I started relating to something about my own life and then I ...

Remember something you've related to me in your own life. You mentioned how, myself and Mary went away, our last trip away and then you just had these burning desires to drink alcohol for some reason, and I think from what you told me you got drunk one night or whatever ...

**Interviewer:** Twice, yes.

And you know, obviously you would have felt pretty bad about that at the time, but you then view that as a regression, but it's not a regression. On this particular subject of alcohol consumption you have not made a shift yet. You've only exercised your mind to make a change. The actual soul-based change has yet to be made; because once a soul-based change is made you won't even feel the desire for it. In fact you will find it quite repulsive.

**Interviewer:** Although I do find it more repulsive that I used to.

Of course, but not completely so.

**Interviewer:** Not completely repulsive at all.

Because certain emotions came up inside of you, and you might feel free to discuss those emotions if you want to, you don't have to. But certain emotions came up in you that overcame your repulsion.

**Interviewer:** Yeah. It was self punishment that I was going through at the time.

So okay, these are emotions regarding how you feel about yourself that were so strong, and strongly negative. Those weren't ever dealt with and still aren't dealt with.

**Interviewer:** No

As a result of that there still will be times when you revert to behaviour that you're not proud of through alcohol consumption because the particular thing that drives the desire for alcohol is still present within you. It might appear to be a regression of some kind but the reality is that there was never progression on that subject in the first place for there to be a regression.

You're conscious of it now, because of your opening to your soul and your opening to other emotions and your other feelings. You're now conscious of the fact that it feels bad when you have alcohol to that degree; you're conscious of that fact, but the reason for doing it has yet to be addressed. Once the reason for doing it has been addressed and the error-based beliefs in the soul are released about yourself, about how you feel about yourself, then you won't feel like doing it. Because you'll feel like, "How could I ever to do it? How could I ever harm this beautiful body that I've been given?" You know, that's how you will feel inside of yourself.

I also quite frequently notice that sometimes people receive a truth intellectually, they try with all their might to live in it, and then down the track they give it up. My suggestion is that if you can give it up then it was never in your soul in the first place, because if it was in your soul you just can't ever give it up. It's as simple as that. The problem I feel people have is that they think they can absorb things in their mind and then choose to act differently and that means that they've changed. And it means nothing of the sort. All it means is that they have accepted it into their mind and as I've said to you during this discussion and during our introduction on the subject, the mind is completely incapable of controlling the soul. The mind is subordinate to the soul, so anything that enters our mind, while it's just in our mind, has no real capacity to control our soul. We'll have to try and struggle and try and struggle and try and struggle and occasionally slip up. That's how it will be while the error exists in the soul on the same subject because the truth has yet to enter the soul on that subject.

**Interviewer:** So it can be a bit 'tricking' to people in that they can change their behaviour and then they look at the whole preclusion idea and then go "Oh look, my actions are different, therefore my soul condition is different", but it's not.

That's right. Put them under stress ...

**Interviewer:** But look at their Law of Attraction.

... and look what happens under stress.

**Interviewer:** Yeah.

Under stress your soul, if it's got a truth in it, will not change. Under stress if you're mind has a truth in it but your soul doesn't, you will change. You will change for certain. That's why under stress, in your case the stress of feeling bad about yourself was higher, in terms of its pain, than choosing to drink alcohol was. As a result you just go ahead and engage the old behaviour, but there's no new behaviour yet really. That old behaviour is still solidified in the soul and will remain so until the reasons for it have left you and gone.

For example, there are some people who drink only when they feel bad about themselves. There are other people who drink for the sake of getting approval from their environment; they would only drink if they went around to, you know, Christmas time to their family or something. Somebody offered them a drink. They'll have a drink then. That tells you that the truth has yet to enter their soul on that particular subject for that particular time and it's all related to the error of getting approval from the environment. You know, feeling like you're a part of the world, is the underlying emotion.

The beauty of all of these things occurring is that the Law of Attraction, through the soul's condition, attracts these events, showing to us the error which still exists in the soul. If we're conscious of it we can say, "Ah okay, this truth has only been in my mind for this entire time." For example, many people that we know, who have been listening to us for four or five years, are now living or eating vegetarian or vegan. We know that many of them have not made a soul shift, because if you put them in a situation where they are going out to dinner, or where they are with mates or friends, bang, they revert to the old behaviour; they have not yet made a soul shift. It's just an intellectual shift and therefore really quite pointless actually.

This is one of the things that we must understand with intellectual shifts. They are only advantageous so long as they affect the soul shift. If they do not affect the soul shift, if we live in the false security of an intellectual shift without making a soul shift, later on it is going to affect us quite negatively. We need to make soul shifts if we are truly going to grow towards God. If we really want to grow our soul, even to become the perfect natural man, soul shifts are going to be required at some point. Without true soul shifts we are going to keep reverting to old behaviour until the soul has shifted. We need to understand that.

On the Divine Love Path, on God's Way to God, we go through soul shifts very very rapidly actually, if we allow them to occur, if we're humble. But most people are not on the Divine Love Path; even those who claim to be. They are still on the Natural Love Path heavily using their intellect in order to change their behaviour. As a result of that they are going to find reversion back to old forms of behaviour fairly consistently until such a time as the soul has actually shifted on the issue.

We really need to understand that if we're going to progress, if we are going to progress towards God. We can continually choose if we want to, to absorb things with our mind without soul shifts but God's relationship is with our soul. It's not with our brain or our mind. It's a soul to soul relationship, between our soul and God's, so unless there are true soul shifts inside of our soul our relationship with God will also never change. And that's a very important thing to understand. I feel that changing your mind does not affect your relationship with God.

**Interviewer:** And that's another way to see whether you are changing. To see how your relationship with God is changing.

Exactly! If your relationship with God is much the same as it was ten years ago and you don't feel any closer and you've not received Divine Love within that time or any of those things, then that should tell you that the soul has actually not shifted. You might have thought it shifted, in your mind, but the soul itself has not shifted and has yet to shift. Otherwise you would have this continually-growing relationship with God happening at the soul level that you would feel, and it would overcome everything. It would eventually overcome all of the negative influences around you, if you kept growing in that way.

A lot of people have not experienced the soul shift even though they believe they have. And that's a sad thing, because you live in a false sense of security in that place. You're not being honest with yourself but you're also not recognising that God wants a closer relationship with you than that. God wants to have a relationship with your real self, not the fabricated self that you in your mind have created so that you can avoid your real self. This is where the mind, as I said, has lots of limitations, and unfortunately also misleads us many times. If the mind is developed without developing qualities of the soul, logic is not possible.

**Interviewer:** That was an add-on bit to absorption.

That was an add-on bit. What should we call that? I suppose that was a bit of background information wasn't it, about absorption, but also about how the mind works and preclusion. In fact, as we discuss some more of the other principles, we'll probably have more little discussions like that that come up that illustrate particular points, as an amalgamation of the understandings that we're raising.

3. What is dominance?

The next part is the understanding of dominance of the soul. This is a very important understanding, dominance. Would you like to know what it is? (Laughing)

**Interviewer:** Yes please. (Laughing) No, don't tell us. (Laughing)

No, don't tell us. We'll just continue without. (Laughing)

A very, very important fact that we must accept if we truly understand our soul is that our soul has been created to dominate the mind and to dominate everything else. Our soul has been created to dominate every single facet of our being. If we believe that the mind has been created to be dominant, we will be working in direct disharmony with our very creation, the purpose of our very creation.

The purpose of our very creation from God's perspective is that our soul dominates everything that we do, and everything that we become is dominated by the soul. In fact, we are the soul, we are not our mind. Our mind is an attribute or organ of the soul, and if we believe ourselves to be our mind only, we are severely limiting our future development. So it's very important to understand dominance. Now I forget how I've actually written it so I'll just read it out. It's the principle that the soul dominates the mind and has full control over the mind, whether the mind believes itself to be in control or not. The mind is not capable of ever having full control of the soul and the soul will always, at some point in our future, exercise its dominance since that is the purpose of its own creation. I think that's a pretty succinct way of stating this principle of dominance.

Now if we understand the soul to be these things - and remember we've talked about them in our interaction, some of the other organs or characteristics or attributes of the soul besides the mind - we've talked about love, which is about the heart, humility, another quality, and it's also about emotions, sentiments, affections, desires, passions, longings. These are all parts of the soul. They are not a part of the mind. The mind can encourage them or try to deny them but they will exist within the soul, these characteristics and attributes. These characteristics and attributes can be suppressed, the mind may attempt to go through the process of suppressing them, but sooner or later they will be exposed, sooner or later in our future progression.

Now when I say sooner or later, I've known people to go thousands of years without them being exposed. It's possible to attempt to suppress them for such a long period of time, but in the end they will be exposed. That is a guarantee because the way the soul was created is that the soul would dominate the mind and therefore these things, the passions, desires, aspirations, intentions, the heart, the emotions, this emotional sentimental part of our being is always in the end going to dominate what happens to our mind.

**Interviewer:** How does it work for Natural Love spirits that have got to the sixth sphere by using their intellect?

Well, they haven't got to the sixth sphere by using their intellect, because if they just used their intellect they wouldn't progress one iota from where they arrived in the spirit world.

**Interviewer:** They've inadvertently engaged their soul in the process?

They've had to engage in the process to get to the sixth dimension. The way that they've engaged their soul is that they've started to realise with their minds that moral development is an important part of their development. In other words, instead of just developing their intellect they have now made an active choice to develop their morality and by that I mean their morality and ethics in terms of love, the expression of their love.

So instead of doing the things they would normally do, they've made up their mind to develop parts of their soul, and to develop those parts of the soul which the mind accepts. They've accepted internally that they have to develop their moral code, their internal moral compass. And so what they've done, they've chosen to do that. They've chosen to go through this process. Through the Law of Compensation, go through this process, firstly of compensating for all the things they did that were out of harmony with love, but then they've also had to engage new truths by releasing errors of concepts that they've had about ethics and morals. They've had to release old beliefs that they've had about immoral behaviour and accept new beliefs about moral behaviour and they've had to go through this process emotionally.

They have engaged a process of soul-based change but it's been limited to what their mind would allow, so it's only changing through what their mind would have allowed. What that means then, is that there's this process that they've naturally been engaging without them even really being aware of, that has caused them to change and to grow. If they had not engaged that process morally and ethically they would still be in the same location where they began in the spirit world.

So they've had to make changes in the same way. They have just not engaged God or God's Love or any of God's Truths or when I say any of God's Truths, any of God's Truths about God in the process. They have engaged God's Truths about other things, about the moral and the ethical laws of the universe. They've had to engage those, because if they didn't engage those they would never have become the perfect natural man.

**Interviewer:** But do they believe that they are still working from the mind though?

They believe they are still working from the mind but they have made a whole heap of soul-based changes which they have used their mind to make. They have used their mind to assist the soul in releasing error and in getting a new belief. They've done that by going through a process of what in the spirit world we often refer to as forgetfulness. They've forgotten the reasons for their own unloving behaviour by accepting new reasons for loving behaviour.

So they have had to change at the soul level. And they have had to go through that process and that process is still the same no matter who you are, whether you are on the Divine Love Path or on the Natural Love Path. However, on the Divine Love Path it's a much more rapid process because you can receive Divine Love which transforms the belief systems in your soul if you allow it to, if you allow the emotional release of the error as it goes.

This is a very rapid way of absorbing new truths into the soul, because the error has now left and been forgiven and as a result the new truth enters very rapidly and so you can grow quite rapidly. But again you have to have a desire for that truth to enter you. If you have no desire for it to enter you, you will stay stagnant until you actually have a desire to absorb the new truth, and that applies whether you're on the Divine Love Path or on the Natural Love Path. If you don't have a desire for a truth and you don't have a desire to live in harmony with a truth then no change can occur anyway.

**Interviewer:** Okay, shall we use an example for dominance?

Yeah, sure.

**Interviewer:** The example is about violence again. Violence towards anyone is not loving and the error is, "That person," (this is the same one but different), "That person has made me angry so violence toward them is justified."

Exactly! So, let's look at this point in terms of dominance. What we are really saying here is that my soul will dominate my intellect and its ability to reason and its ability to determine the truth on this subject. So I might have received a concept, and as I've said in many of our discussions with people, I've talked to them about how violence in any circumstance is out of harmony with love. Now many of them have received this concept in their mind only. In other words in their mind they can sort of see, "Yeah I can sort of see why, you know, violence under any circumstance is unloving." But then put them in a circumstance where there is violence towards themselves or even just a circumstance that is challenging towards themselves, many times they still resort to violence. The reason is that they have not respected the fact that their soul will dominate their actions, not the mind. While their soul has justification for violence in it, those justifications under certain trigger points will be exposed, and will undoubtedly be acted upon.

So they have not understood this principle of dominance. They have not understood that you can't just absorb a thought and have a change. A change has to occur in the soul for a change to actually occur in your day-to-day life, because if it doesn't, sooner or later a situation will occur where the soul reverts to its dominance and overcomes the mind's reasoning ability and causes a certain action to be taken that might be out of harmony with truth and love.

While I believe that my mind is dominant I'm really in a place that's very dangerous, because I'll absorb this truth in my mind and absorb that truth in my mind and absorb this truth in my mind thinking that I'm changing. I might even choose through my mind to change my actions and that would tend to indicate to me that I am changing, but the reality is that if my actions are not automatic I have yet to change. If my actions of love are not automatic, I've yet to change.

We could talk about another example. I've often talked to people about telling the truth in all circumstances and situations. Now for the majority of people this underlying truth of telling the truth in all circumstances has not entered their soul, because you place them in a circumstance or situation where, you know, they are afraid of their family or afraid of their friends, or afraid of public opinion or whatever fear is triggered, Bang! the truth goes out the window in an instant. They might not tell a lie, but they'll sit there, you know, not saying the truth either.

That is an indication that that truth, of always telling the truth, has yet to enter their soul. It has only entered their mind as a concept and until it enters the soul, nothing's really changed. It's just in their mind. Their soul hasn't changed. They haven't grown on the issue. As we talked about through absorption, we know that we have to release the error in order for this truth of having to tell the truth all the time, for it to work. Once we release the errors which are the different circumstances and situations under which we're willing to compromise truth, once we release those we will never compromise truth in any situation any more. Then we could say the truth is in our soul. Only then. Before that time it's just an intellectual concept in our mind and our soul error will govern our actions according to the circumstances.

Let's say we get into a circumstance that we've yet to release the error about. The circumstance might be, "I badly need approval of others." That might be the circumstance. Whenever that approval of others is threatened, because I've not yet released the error, that thing that's out of harmony with God's Love and out of harmony with God's Truth, because I've yet to release that from my soul, I revert to either speaking a lie or revert to not disclosing the truth. I revert to either shutting up or not disclosing anything. And that tells me that that's the circumstance in which I need to find the error. If I use my mind wisely, I could then go "Okay, that just told me that my soul's still got the error. Where is the error? Now I know through the circumstance that the error is related to public opinion and how people think about me. So that's where I need to focus my time and effort, on finding the error and releasing it so that I can have the truth enter my soul rather than it just being an intellectual concept in my mind.

**Interviewer:** So that's an example where the changing your actions in a more loving direction is beneficial, because then that exposes the error in that situation.

Exactly! If I had really used my mind again to change my actions, I would feel the feeling coming up, in that circumstance where I can feel I've got to say the truth. In that moment I would honour that truth, if I have not yet released the error of compromise. If I had released the error of compromise, I would be able to honour that truth and speak up even though I'm terrified. I'd be able to do that. But because I have honoured my fear rather than honouring the truth, this situation is telling me, "Ah, another situation where I honoured fear over truth, which means the truth of telling the truth is yet to enter my soul and I need to find out why, what the error is in my soul that's preventing this truth that's in my mind from entering my soul."

Now I feel that if most people understood this dominance principle they would realise that their soul is always dominant and it doesn't matter how much they try to exercise their mind for dominance, in the end the soul will always revert to dominance. In fact that's the way God created it to be. God created our soul to finish up being the dominant part of our nature, because the soul is the real self. The mind is just an appendage of the real self. The soul is the real us. The complete unit of the soul has all of these organs of which the mind is only one and while I'm trying to use one organ to dominate the rest, of course at some point in the future it's not going to work out too well for me.

And this is the problem I feel that most people who are mind dominant have, that they are trying, trying, trying, always trying to dominate their soul, their entire being, with one appendage of their soul and in the end it's never going to work. They're always going to revert to the soul's dominance at some point, and if the soul contains error then it's going to be the error that dominates. If the soul contains truth then it will be the truth that dominates. It just depends on what the soul contains as to what the end result will be. If the soul contains love then love will dominate. But I can believe I am loving with my mind but at the very same time as that my soul dominant emotions are not loving at all.

We speak very frequently to people; we even had a discussion yesterday with a group of people where I talked with them about the dominance of some of their minds over their souls. They are not even aware of their soul emotions until I talk about it with them. Why is that? It's because they are using their mind to think, "I'm good," or "I'm happy," and it's a very arrogant way of operating but it's also a very fear-based way of operating. I'm trying to use my mind to tell me that I'm a good person when my soul's actions and what I do with my life demonstrate to me that actually I'm not as good as I think I am, but I'm trying to ignore that as well.

It's not a natural thing to be loving under those circumstances, and what I'm suggesting to people is that if we understand dominance, if there is a change in the soul, then the change in the soul will be instantly reflected in my day-to-day life. My soul will dominate my actions and if my soul is loving, all of my actions are automatically dominated by a loving soul. If my soul is unloving then all of my actions will be pretty much relatively easily be exposed as being unloving through that process. This is where we require some sense of honesty with self. Most people who are still in their mind are not very honest with themselves because they are not honest about the soul and its emotions that still dominate their feelings and their actions. They try to ignore their soul all the time. And it's very very dangerous to ignore your soul in any form of development.

**Interviewer:** I was just going to say in neuroscience there's actually this whole area of research about trying to get the mind to control feelings and the whole idea of how to treat anxiety and post traumatic stress disorder which is all about training the mind to try and suppress the emotions and they know it doesn't work because they put the person, even in animals, they put an animal in another situation and it reverts back ...

... to old behaviour.

**Interviewer:** Yeah, they're trying really hard to get it to work.

It's strange isn't it? In a way that's a reflection of the intellectual dominance of the people doing the experiment, and the lack of understanding of their soul, their own soul and how the soul has been created to be dominant. We can temporarily or partially suppress the soul with our mind but it's never going to work for good. It can never work for good.

I often liken it to nature. Like, you can maintain a home, for example. We build a home out of dead material and we have to maintain it because we built it out of dead material. So we spend all of our time maintaining it because normally the elements will eat the dead material and reduce it to nothing unless we maintain it. We choose to build it out of dead material and then maintain it. And we have to maintain it. But as soon as we die or we leave the home, we come back a year later and it's a mess. Why is it a mess? Because nature reverts to its normal, natural process and in the case of a home, nature eats dead material. That's what it does. It converts dead material into matter it can use to support life. It uses it as food, if you like, for life, and that's its natural process. Because that's its natural process we come back a year later and our house is a mess. Everything inside is a mess and there's spiders, there's living creatures everywhere, there's, you know, paint peeling off, all sorts of things, more so than if we were in it. There's terrible destruction that occurs. Now we said that's a natural process and what we're trying to do in maintaining our home is work against the natural process.

That's almost an analogy for what we do with our soul. We're often using our mind to work against the natural process of our soul. In the end it's going to require maintenance. In other words constant upkeep, constant trying, constant demand upon us, constant demand upon our attention and so forth. It's just going to be completely overwhelming for us eventually because we don't understand that the nature of the soul is that the soul controls, not the mind. Now if instead of doing that, for example with the house, instead of building a house out of dead material we worked out, "Ah, okay. Nature eats dead material but it doesn't eat live material. So if I build my house out of live material somehow, if I come up with some technologies that are alive and build my house out of live material nothing's going to eat it. It's going to survive for good."

**Interviewer:** It's going to get bigger.

Yeah, it might even grow and I won't have to maintain it. Now that same principle applies with our soul. And that same principle is, if I now start working on my soul which is naturally dominant, and I promote its dominance rather than trying to suppress its dominance and I work on anything inside of my soul that creates a dominance in an unloving direction and I release that from my soul, then I'm going to be left with an automatic natural process that I will not have to upkeep. That's what I'm going to be left with. I'm going to have no effort in my future progression under those circumstances because my soul has learnt that it's dominant and as a result everything respects the dominance of the soul. Because we respect the dominance of the soul, we realise that anything that we do or attract that's out of harmony with love, we have to release something that's inside of the soul so that we can release that part of the soul's dominance that's negative, and so we release it and we're left with only loving things that dominate our soul.

Now that would be a far more logical process to follow if we understood our soul and we understood the principle of dominance. What I feel is that most people still don't understand that principle and they are working with their mind, working with their mind, trying to change their actions, changing their actions. A lot of people have become vegans just because Jesus talked about it on an interview or some kind of presentation. But they haven't had a shift in their soul. What's the point of doing that? Why not keep eating meat and feel guilty about it. That would probably be better. You might change faster there and work out what's going on in the soul.

See, a lot of people change their actions without changing their soul. The best course of action is to change your actions but always be conscious that unless the soul changes, changing the action is not going to have any long term benefit to you. That's the best course of action. When you notice something is out of harmony with law, with God's Law of Love, change your action but understand that changing your action is not the end of it. Because unless something changes in your soul that allowed you to perform the previous unloving action, unless that is released from you, your soul has not changed. And unless your soul changes you are not going to get closer to God. You're not going to be closer to yourself. You're not going to realise the power and potential of your soul.

When I understand dominance I will stop using my mind just to change my actions all the time and I will start using my mind to assist the soul to find the reasons why I have a certain action and release the reason, the error inside of the soul. That's how I will use my mind. I will focus my mind on using it to expose the error and allow its experience so that it leaves me, instead of using my mind to suppress the error and cover over the experience, which is the way most people are using their mind.

**Interviewer:** Because of the way that God's designed it, it's only going to work for a little while.

Exactly! It can only work for a while. Now when I say a little while ...

**Interviewer:** Thousands of years.

...if we compare it with eternal existence, then it might in extreme cases work for a thousand years or a few thousand years. But in the end it cannot work forever because God's created the soul to dominate. I've met people who have got to the sixth dimension of the spirit world who have not progressed further for 2,000 years but when I talk to them, I can feel in their soul the dissatisfaction. There are little points of dissatisfaction that the soul's starting to revert and starting to dominate again. It's feeling its dissatisfaction, the dissatisfaction of not having a relationship with God. It feels. And so, even though they've tried to suppress it with their mind and taken it and distracted it with as many distractions as possible through 2,000 or 3,000 or 5,000 years of life, in the end the soul is still going, "Listen to me, listen to me, you're not listening to me." And the soul has been designed to do that. God designed the soul in a very clever way and it's been designed to constantly, constantly badger us when it knows something is not right and to dominate us even though we might try to intellectually dominate it for most of our existence.

Are there any examples that we want to raise there? Probably is, but yeah. That was the point of dominance and I feel that if people can understand dominance and then look at it, we've now got the three principles we've looked at. We've looked at the preclusion principle, which is the state of the soul currently. We've looked at the absorption principle, which is the state of how we can grow the soul. And then if we look at the principle of dominance we are now looking at what we should be focusing on if we are going to develop. We need to stop the focus on intellectual development and mind-based development and we need to start really feeling, because remember our soul, as I've said in this section here - I think I wrote down some things about it - I said the soul is emotions, sentiment, desire, passions, longing, aspiration, feeling, sensory, fervour, excitement. All these kinds of feelings are a part of our soul. These are all a part of the soul's organs and so we could start focusing on the development of them rather than the suppression of them.

We use our mind now, rather than using our mind to try and dominate the soul, we go, "Okay, I give up," in our mind we go, "I give up. You are, the soul is more dominant, the emotions and all these other feelings that we described, all these sensory feelings are always going to dominate me. I need to bring them into harmony with love and truth. That's what I need to choose to do. Now I can use my will, which comes from my soul and my mind as an intellectual tool, to actually allow the development and dominance of these particular things, but only allow the dominance in the direction of developing further in love and truth. In other words, whenever I notice an error, I want to release the error rather than live in the error. I want to get rid of the error from myself rather than stay in it all the time."

And I feel that if people focus their attention on that and use their mind as a tool of the soul to help the soul do its thing, then they would find progress much more rapid.

So that's the principle of dominance.

4. What is progression?

How are you going so far?

**Interviewer:** I'm enjoying it. It's very interesting. It's bringing together lots of things in terms of ... I'm just a bit over there, a bit over there, a bit over there and now it's like kind of all making sense a bit more.

Yeah. I sort of feel for a lot of people it's, like they have heard me say a lot of different things but not really understood that it's the way the soul's been created to work. Like, there's not that underlying understanding that God's designed it that way.

**Interviewer:** It's so clever. It's so cool. It's just remarkable.

Everything God does is so clever, hey?

**Interviewer:** It's just like; you can just think about that one thing and go "Wow," for ages.

Yeah, yeah. And that's what I like about a lot of this material. It illustrates that it is all by design. I think one of the biggest problems that I see is that people on Earth sort of believe that everything that happens to them and around them is some sort of happenstance. You know, some sort of chance that dictates everything. Because they don't understand the principle of the soul, they don't understand that there's nothing here happening by chance. It's all by design. Everything that's going on is by design and the way the soul works is by design. You can try to circumvent the design; you can try to work around the design for a period of time but it's going to require huge amounts of effort. Constant, constant effort. If you work with the design you get this beautiful smooth thing starting to occur.

It's a bit like what I notice mankind doing with a lot of things on the planet, even with regard to nature. You know, we're constantly working against the design. Things have been designed a certain way and we're constantly working in the opposite direction. That's why we spend a lot of our lives maintaining things. It's because we're working against their design, constantly. If we worked with their design, we wouldn't need to maintain anything.

That also applies to the soul. If we work against its design it's going to require constant work, constant pressure, constant effort. We're going to be constantly disappointed because we're going to have constant adjustments. But if we work with the soul we'll get to the point where it requires no effort at all. And that's the beauty of what God has created by design. It's all by design, the way the soul works. So far we've learnt about this dominance. That's by design. God designed our soul to be dominant. God designed our soul that truth and error can't exist in the soul at the same time. And God designed our soul that truth can't enter it while error is in it. That's by design. The process of absorption is by design. These are all things that God has designed into our soul and we're constantly trying to work against it. That's what I see happening on the planet where we want it to be a different way.

Probably the fourth and fifth point that we are going to discover is a lot about pain and suffering, which is often why we want it to be a different way. Even that is by design, every time. God has created this framework of laws and every law that we follow that's in harmony with the law, by design we are going to experience joy, happiness and peace and a lot of other beautiful emotions. Every time with these laws that we go away from their design, what they're designed to do, out of harmony with love, whenever we react out of harmony with the law of love, by design there's a corrective process. It's all by design.

And we're rebelling against the design thinking that we know better. But if we thought about it clearly we could see that if this body is designed so cleverly then surely the Universe around it is probably going to be designed even more cleverly. And the framework in which the Universe in which we live is probably also going to be even more clever than that again. We would understand that it's all by design. But unfortunately we don't go down that track. Instead we rebel against the design. We are constantly trying to use our body, use our soul, use our mind and all of the things that are a part of ourselves in a way that's directly opposing its design.

**Interviewer:** And we're saying that we're the intelligent ones.

Yeah, and saying we're the intelligent ones.

**Interviewer:** Aren't we brilliant. (Laughing)

Yeah, aren't we brilliant! We can use something outside of its design. (Laughing) And of course we're going to get a lot of pain and suffering in that process. We go, "Why are we having so much pain and suffering?"

**Interviewer:** "It's a flaw to evolution or something."

Exactly! And the reality is that it's by design. We are going to have pain and suffering every time we use something outside of its design parameters. You grab a knife and you use it inside its design parameters, there's no pain and suffering. But you grab a knife and use it outside of its design parameters, outside of the purpose for which it's been designed and there's going to be pain and suffering. There could even be death. A lot of pain, physical pain to the body and so forth can result using it out of harmony with the real purpose of its design, or we could say, the loving purpose of its design.

Everything that God has designed has a loving purpose. All the laws God's designed have a loving purpose. God doesn't design anything without a loving purpose and we're there rebelling, rebelling, rebelling, trying to use our soul outside of the parameters of its design. Of course we are going to end up with a lot of pain and suffering as a result.

That's a little aside perhaps, before we get on to the next point, which is that of understanding progression. When we talk about the point of understanding progression we are talking about how the soul progresses. Up until this point we are starting to establish some basic parameters for the soul. We've got the parameter of preclusion, so we know now that truth and error can't exist in the soul at the same time. We understand absorption. We understand that truth can't enter the soul while error exists in it. Love can't enter the soul while hatred exists in it on the same subject at the same time. All of these principles are true and we understand that. We understand the soul was created to be dominant.

So now we are getting a bit of a picture of how we need to develop our soul. And then there's this issue of, "How do we now develop our soul? How does the soul actually progress? What do we do to actually help the soul progress?" This is the point of understanding the truth about progression of the soul. What I've said in this truth - and I'll probably read it. Progression is the principle: "True progression within the soul can only be obtained through an emotional process that will involve both pain, which is associated with emotions related to error, and pleasure, which is associated with emotions relating to truth. If the soul denies either pain or pleasure, or uses its mind to deny pain or pleasure, progression cannot occur."

I think it's pretty obvious what that means. It means that, when it comes to our soul, if we are always trying to control the outcome of our feelings with our mind, then it's going to be very very difficult for our soul to progress. We can't progress without experiencing pain or pleasure, both pain and pleasure generally. Now we get to a point when all pain is released. Once we get to the point of at-onement with God, all pain is released, and from that moment on we cannot progress without pleasure.

That sounds good. But until that point error exists within the soul and error is always associated with pain. So we cannot progress to that point without allowing both pain and pleasure. If you think about it, the more error that we have within our soul, the more pain we will need to experience in order to have it released. But it will be a combination of pain and pleasure, not only pain.

This is what I feel many people miss when it comes to emotional work. They do not understand the pleasure of accepting truth. They only understand the pain of releasing error. But we need both; we need to do both. We need to have; we will have if we truly progress, both pain and pleasure. If we suppress pleasure, which many people have taught themselves to do, as much as they've taught themselves to suppress pain, we are going to really struggle a lot in terms of progressing towards God. Because as we get closer and closer to God we will have more and more pleasure. Obviously if we are resistive to pleasure we are going to get to a point at some point where we stagnate in our progression of the soul.

Now if you think about pain and pleasure, the mind is capable of neither. It's only the sensations that are a part of our body, physical and spiritual and also a part of our soul that are capable of experiencing these particular feelings. They are sensory and emotional. They are not an intellectual thought. They are sensory and emotional experiences. This is why we must understand that pain and pleasure are a part of our progression.

So this principle of progression is the principle that we will not be able to progress unless we experience both pain and pleasure, particularly if we are not yet at one with God. Once we are at one with God there will be no more pain to experience and of course we still need to be open to pleasure, otherwise we cannot progress beyond that point. We cannot progress further in more knowledge and more love of God while we are still resistant to pleasure. We need to have no resistance to pleasure and no resistance to pain.

Now unfortunately for the majority of people on the planet, we've got, usually, what we believe is no resistance to pleasure, but at the same time we've got huge resistances to pain, emotional and physical. As a result, since pain is only associated with error it will be impossible for us to release error while we are shutting down pain, and that's an important thing to understand about the soul. If I shut down, if I use my mind to shut down pain, if I shut down the experience of pain, if I avoid the experience of pain, if I run away or deny the experience of pain I am shutting down the release of error. And if I don't release error truth cannot enter me on that same subject that I'm not releasing error about.

So I'm causing my own stagnation, if I do that. And this is the principle of progression. We need to understand what really causes progression and it's the ability to freely accept both our pain and our pleasure. If you think about it, that is a humble state to receive, to be able to freely accept our own pain and pleasure. We are humble to both sets of emotions.

**Interviewer:** You've talked in the past about how you can absorb a new truth and it can bring you pleasure. But sometimes when you have released an error and it's been painful and then the truth comes in that's not necessarily associated with a pleasurable experience at that point in time is it?

I don't know if I'd agree with that, Luli. Because in every case that I've ever received a truth it's always been a pleasurable experience. I might have cried with joy during the experience in many cases. Or sometimes as you receive a truth new errors become exposed, and they will often be painful as a result. So it depends how rapidly you can process emotionally, doesn't it. Sometimes you receive a new truth; that triggers an acknowledgement of further error, which then of course has a whole heap of emotions associated with it that are painful. So that sometimes occurs. It often does occur when you are on the path with God because you sometimes go rapidly from one emotion to the other emotions during that process.

Remember in a previous example that I used, in a previous understanding, I used the example of slowly becoming aware that violence perpetrated by my parents was actually assault on myself. Remember I showed during that example how one particular aspect of truth once it's absorbed by my soul, because I've released an error, exposed another error. That then meant I had to process some more emotion. This is why sometimes people who are progressing on the Divine Love Path feel there's no joy, because they go from one error, release it, absorb the truth very rapidly and they don't notice the joy of absorbing the truth because it triggers the awareness of another error. They then have more pain as a result of that awareness of this new error.

Now that is just a natural process but when they look at the truths in retrospect, they will always feel a joy associated with that, with acknowledgement of that truth. For example, once I acknowledge to myself emotionally and it enters my soul as a truth that any person who perpetrates violence towards me is unloving, this becomes a joy to acknowledge, because now I have the ability to determine what is unloving behaviour towards myself and therefore I have an ability to recognise who is loving in my life and who is not. That means that I can make a choice and spend more time with the people who are loving and therefore have more joy in my life as a result. So when we look in retrospect at all of the truths we will always feel them with joy.

**Interviewer:** But in the process the realisation, the remembering the truth or acknowledging the truth of, "Oh, my parents were really unloving to me in that situation. That doesn't feel good ..."

Well it does actually. I don't know about you but it has felt good for me because I've recognised that my feelings about that subject of violence were real, were true. So I'm now acknowledging a part of my soul as containing truth that I had never acknowledged before.

**Interviewer:** You're celebrating the process?

Yeah. So for me, and I feel this is where a lot of people lose their joy in the process. They are not celebrating the truths they learn and you can celebrate them. All of the truths that we learn need to be celebrated because they are all causing the growth of our soul. I'm not saying the truths that you learn here (AJ points to his head) because you won't celebrate those, because that's just a thought. The truths that you will actually celebrate are the truths that are now in your soul as an emotion. You will definitely celebrate those. So I would suggest to people that if they are not celebrating the truth then it's yet to really enter them emotionally because of an error. I usually find that to be the case. Well, when I say usually, in all cases I've found that to be the case. For example, if I can't celebrate the truth that my parents treated me badly as a child it's because I have yet to release sadness about my parents treating me badly as a child.

Once I release the error or release the feeling, the grief associated with the feeling that my parents treated me badly as a child, I will be able to celebrate the truth of my acknowledgement of that fact. It will be a celebration in me. I will go, "Wow, this is changing my life. Now I've realised I don't have to accept this poor behaviour from people who say they love me but who act like they don't. I don't have to accept this anymore." How much would that change my life if I really felt that inside of myself and celebrated that truth?

I feel what's happening for a lot of people is that they can't celebrate the truth yet because they are yet to release the error on the same subject fully. Once you've released the error on a subject fully, you will always celebrate the truth of it. It doesn't even matter how horrific it is. You will always celebrate the truth of it. There's also this underlying thing that occurs. You are now honouring the dominance of your soul, and there's a lot of joy in that. You will always feel joy in honouring the dominance of your soul. There are all these joys that result if you ...

**Interviewer:** Because your behaviour has changed?

Because your behaviour has changed but not only that, you've now fully honoured your past experience. You've honoured the fact that you've been hurt. Instead of denying it and shoving it down and saying it never happened and trying to get away, run away from it all your life, and affecting all the different choices and decisions that you've made throughout your life, you've now honoured the fact that all of that rubbish that happened in your life, that painful suffering experience that you had, all came from this.

And I've now honoured my experience of that so much that it has stopped all of this unloving behaviour and all of these unloving actions and all of these unloving results, all of these painful results that have caused my suffering. And I can rejoice in that; I can be happy about that. And once you've gone through that process, you know for certain that you will never revert to allowing that or, in the example that I've given, revert to feeling that someone who is violent with you is loving you. You will never again, ever consider that as truth.

That's a beautiful thing too because it gives you the ability to choose your associates wisely now. Instead of accepting unloving behaviour as loving, and accepting violence as loving, you are never going to do that. So who are you going to be with? You're going to be with people who are never going to be violent towards you as a result of that. It gives you the power to make choices in your life that love you further, and you will always think, "The reason why this power came is that I let go of that error and I let go of that pain that I had about my parents; I let go of all of that, and this is why my life has changed." You'll always have the joy of the experience of knowing that.

So I feel that if a person isn't experiencing joy in the processing of error and their absorption of truth - obviously in the processing of error there won't be much joy in that, but joy in the absorption of truth - it's because the error on the same subject is yet to fully leave them.

**Interviewer:** So I guess this is why you get happier and happier and happier?

Exactly!

**Interviewer:** Because you're fully releasing more and more and more and then you're celebrating more of the truth. And you have less crap left in your soul.

Exactly. And you have more love enter your soul from God and from your surroundings and as a result of that you feel better about yourself. You have more worth and so on and so forth; there are so many advantages.

**Interviewer:** No wander it's exponential.

Yeah, and if that is not happening then you're not being real about the Path. You are not following the Path if that's not happening. If that's not happening then something is wrong with what you are doing. I feel for many people that there are things wrong with what they're doing. They are embroiling themselves in emotions that are not theirs or they are embroiling themselves in experiences where they are not being truthful or honest with themselves about what's going on. They are not happy with releasing error. They rebel against releasing error and that causes a lot of pain. They continually break God's Laws which causes more pain. They still are in rebellion against God which causes more pain.

Unless you change some of these behaviours, which can only change by getting rid of the error in the soul that creates them, there will be the continuous creation of pain, and the more sensitive we become to our soul the more we are going to feel it. I feel, if you look at the planet right now, we're in 2013, there's a lot of pain on the planet. There's a lot of pain on the planet as a result of people choosing to rebel, people choosing to rebel against God's Laws really.

And then they say, as I discussed with a group yesterday, we often say, "Well I don't want to go back to my painful childhood experiences because I'm in too much pain about my current experiences. But we don't understand that our current experiences are caused by our dominant soul exercising itself in a direction that's in disharmony with God's Laws of Love. That's why we have pain. So if I could help my dominant soul through this process of progression, to progress from the state of exercising its will dominantly in a negative direction out of harmony with love, into exercising its will dominantly in a process that's in harmony with love, then the pain and suffering in my current life will reduce and I'll have much greater ability to connect with old pain and suffering as well, and release it through that process.

That's what I would encourage people to do. That's what this point of progression is all about, understanding that progression is not possible without an emotional process. It's not possible. You can intellectually absorb something and if it is a truth that enters your soul, even if there is no error and it's just a truth that you are letting into your soul and there's no error in your soul precluding the truth from entering, it will be an emotional process as it enters you. It will be an emotional process of pleasure. You will cry in joy at receiving this truth. And then it will be in your heart, then it will be in your soul. If there was error in your soul when you are trying to absorb this truth into your soul then the error must first release; according to the process of absorption that we've already discussed, it has to release. If I allow its release by allowing dominance, allowing the dominance of my soul to dominate how it feels and how I feel in that process, allow its release, then after that, or maybe during that, the truth will enter me as a joyful process. And the painful process of releasing the error will also need to occur.

As long as I am not selective about pain and pleasure it will all happen naturally, but as soon as I get selective about pain and pleasure the entire process will shut down. Because God created our soul to experience all feelings and sensations, whether they are painful or pleasurable. It is by design that God did that.

We must understand that all of these principles that we are discussing are not my ideas or concepts. They are God's design of the human soul. They are how God designed the human soul to operate and all we need to do is come to understand it. You know, it's not my idea. I've had to come to understand it just like I'm trying to share with other people to help them understand it. If we understand it, we work with it. If we don't understand it or we deny it or we try to work against it the results that we see are always going to be pain and suffering. Always.

**Interviewer:** Would you like to have an example for progression?

Sure, sure. Let's do that.

**Interviewer:** So the example was, same one as we had before, violence. The truth is: Violence towards anyone is not loving and the error is: That person made me angry so violence towards them is justified.

Okay so now we are looking at this same situation that we've looked at regarding the other principles of the soul. We are looking at it with respect to this particular principle of progression. We are relating progression to, "How do I progress on this issue of violence?" Like, how do I actually change my soul to work through the issues so that eventually I come out the other end going, "I accept in my soul, and my soul feelings and emotions are, I will never be able to be violent again." How do I get to that point?

That's really the question. The answer to that is, "Well, how did this desire for violence get in the soul?" Well it got into the soul by the child being taught through a process in its childhood, somewhere, that violence and love go hand in hand under some circumstances, that violence is justified under some circumstances and as an adult now I need to understand my justifications for violence and release every single one of them if I am ever truly going to be non-violent in my future.

To do that I'm going to have to go through a process, a painful process of releasing every belief that I have, of justification for violence, and also I will need to go through the joyful process of receiving the new truth of why, under those circumstances, there's no justification for violence. That's a process that I'll have to go through if I want to grow or change on the particular subject. So what I've said here in terms of our study, if a child is taught through the parents' example of their treatment of the child, that a person who loves them can also sometimes be violent with them, this teaching will have entered the child through a painful, emotional process. We can see that. The painful emotional process is that the parent has been violent with the child and there's been physical touch usually involved in it, usually belting or some kind of violent process which has been physically painful to the child. It has also been emotionally painful to the child because the child up until that point trusted that its parent would act in harmony with it, never violent, never unloving. All of a sudden they are receiving a lot of pain from this person who they trust, so there are a lot of broken feelings inside the child, emotional feelings about trust, and who they can trust, and what they can trust, all going on at the same time, a very painful emotional experience. That has entered the child.

How is it going to be released? By the child feeling it. Now most of the time the child wasn't allowed to feel it. The child was suppressed from feeling that, and so now that we are an adult we are going to have to go back to that time in our life and actually feel it, to release it, to release the truth that's in our soul that's actually an error from God's perspective. But it's the truth of what happened to us. We have to release it. We have to go through the painful emotional experience of releasing it and then we come out the other side of that painful emotional experience. Now our soul, through this process of absorption, is open to receiving the truth. Our soul is now going, "Okay, the error is gone. What's the truth now? After that point the truth can now be quite easily absorbed and we can go through the pleasurable process of realising the truth.

Now often, as you pointed out, it's not a thing that happens overnight, on one occasion. It's a gradual thing; you release this point and that point of error and then you absorb this or that point of truth and then you release that point of error and then you absorb this point of truth and often in one large subject there may be hundreds of little subjects in which truth and error will conflict and therefore while the error exists the truth won't enter. So we have to release the error on that little subject for the truth to enter on that little subject.

Often that builds into the entire subject then being completed at some point in our future. You can't expect that to happen overnight. There's no such thing as the overnight transformation of the soul, and I suggest that if anybody says that there is then they've probably just been over-cloaked by a spirit who's helped them be completely different person. Because there is no such thing as the overnight transformation of the soul. It is going to be a gradual process, but how fast it happens will depend on how much we understand our soul. If we understand our soul has these points that we've been raising, that that's the way it's been designed, and then we'll work in harmony with its design rather than always trying to work against it. Therefore, if we are working in harmony with it, the soul will progress quite rapidly.

So that's the issue of progression, how progression works.

5. What is resistance?

The next point we'd like to discuss about the soul and how it operates is that of resistance, understanding resistance, what resistance of the soul is all about.

**Interviewer:** Okay. Tell me about resistance.

Okay. Let me read about resistance.

Resistance is the principle that truth enters the soul when there is no emotional impediment as error resisting the absorption of the truth. Error enters the soul when there is no emotional impediment as truth resisting the absorption of the error. Emotional impediments are under the control of the will of the individual, in that the will can be exercised to emotionally release the reason for resistance. This is a part of humility.

So we're defining, we're now putting together a lot of the principles that we've been talking about, and determining why we become stagnant. Why do we stop progressing? What's the reason why progress ebbs and flows?

We've already discussed the points about progression and what's going to be needed for progression. That's the understanding that we need to do some emotional work that's going to be both and painful and pleasurable in the process. There's also this issue of dominance, that we want to encourage the soul to be dominant. We want to encourage the emotions, not suppress them. And absorption says that we can't have a truth enter us unless some kind of error leaves. Now if we put all of that together, every single time we get into a state of resistance, basically it's telling us that there's an emotional thing inside of us that's causing the resistance. It's not some kind of intellectual thing that we have to go through. There's some emotion. There's some kind of emotional impediment in our soul and we're using our will to hold on to it.

That's the principle of resistance. We are exercising our free will, this beautiful precious gift that God has given our soul, to shut down the painful experience. If we exercise our soul to shut down a painful experience we are going to be resistive to anything being absorbed into the soul. We can be in error and resist truth or we can be in truth and resist error; either way it's going to happen. My suggestion is that we use our will to always release error. And if we use our will to always release error then we will never hit a point of resistance. We will never hit the point where we stagnate, where we slow down or stop in our progression.

In actual practice, the majority of people hit resistance all the time. We don't want to experience the pain of the emotional error that exists in our soul. We want to maintain intellectual dominance over our emotion. We want to avoid the process of absorption. We also want to avoid progression. Now of course if we are avoiding all those things the only result can be resistance, stagnation, can be stopping in our progress of the soul. We need to understand the power of our will exercised in this regard. It's our will being exercised out of harmony with its design that causes us to go into stagnation.

Whenever we feel stagnant or resistive to absorbing new truth, if we think about it and go, "Hang on a sec, this isn't very clever, we are now using our will in complete disharmony with the way in which God created the design of our soul. Why would we do that? That's such a silly thing to do. We'd definitely be better off changing that particular course of action." And I feel we need to understand that resistance is not about anything external.

In all of this I haven't mentioned anything like "That's your fault that I can't do something." You know, it's not your fault or Igor's fault or anybody's fault that I can't do something. It's because of my choice to exercise my will out of harmony with God's original design that causes me to go into a place of stagnation. It's not because of anything you did. It's not because of anything you tried to stop me doing. I might imagine it to be but it's not. The reality is that I can use my will every single time, every single time, to engage a place of no resistance.

If I understood that principle fully I would probably find myself getting into progressively less resistance as I went on, because the more of the truth that I let enter my soul the less I'd be tempted into resistance. I'd realise that there's a negative effect for any resistance. I'd realise that every time I resist something I am only working against the design of my own soul, which is not a very logical choice to make.

Now the only time that I feel such an action is understandable is when we were children. You see, when we were children we were often put into situations that we could not get out of and as a result of that we suppressed certain emotions in order to cope with the situations. For example, sometimes as a child we were smacked by our parents, right? Then we start crying and then our parent tells us, "If you cry any more I'll smack you again." Now that's a very confusing thing for the child because it's already experiencing the pain of the previous assault and now it's being threatened with another assault for feeling the results of the previous one. In that circumstance the child will probably learn to close itself down and that's understandable.

But when we're adults that is not understandable, to do that. There's no reason to make those choices as an adult, even if violence is regularly perpetrated towards us. There's no reason to continue that because as an adult we understand we have the power to release and in fact our soul has been created to release. As long as we release we are working in harmony with our soul's design, whereas as a child we don't understand that. Nobody has taught us that so we don't understand that. But now that we understand this truth, as adults we can at least work in harmony with its design.

So I feel that the only time when the process of resistance is something you can truly understand is when a child is in resistance rather than an adult being in resistance. Unfortunately we often find the reverse. A child is rarely in resistance unless an adult forces it into such, and an adult is often in resistance even when nobody is forcing them to do anything. That's something that we do need to change. That's another error in the soul that needs to be released, this desire to stop the process of release. The child does not generally have a desire to stop the process of release unless it has received plenty of encouragement in that direction by its environment before that time, whereas as an adult living by themself or even with a partner has no reason to not release. There's no logical reason to not release. They are no longer being dominated in that circumstance by another. They may have attracted somebody, maybe their partner, who dominates them, but even so there's still no reason to not release, if they trusted the mechanism of the soul, if they trusted God's design.

**Interviewer:** If they trusted the fact that there's just one emotion they need to get rid of and then it will all flow. It's just another feeling they have to feel?

It's just another feeling. They wouldn't have this feeling of being afraid of their feelings all the time. And you know it's just another feeling, even if it's fear or terror. All they need to do is release it and the error can leave them and a new truth can enter them. They can grow if they allow this feeling to flow, and they wouldn't worry so much about what their feelings would be. They would only exercise their mind in a loving direction to support their feeling. They wouldn't dump their feeling on everyone around them all the time. They would use their mind to support the processing of the feeling in a way that wouldn't harm other people or themselves. That's what they would do.

They wouldn't even choose to harm themselves. They wouldn't cut themselves up or hurt themselves in any way or bash themselves. They wouldn't choose to suicide, which is the ultimate of self-hurt, I suppose you could say, or of self-rage. They wouldn't choose to do any of those things, because all of those things would be more out of harmony with love. They would choose just to feel the feeling, no matter how intense it is or how painful it is, knowing, "If I fully express and experience this feeling the error leaves me and now the truth can enter me and my life will change." That's the beauty. So I suppose we could say that resistance is futile. (Laughing) But the reality is that most of us don't believe that. Most of us believe that resistance is a powerful place.

**Interviewer:** That we can avoid our pain forever and it's not going to control our lives and everything that happens to us.

If I truly understood dominance then I would also understand that resistance is futile, because sooner or later, if there is error and pain in my soul, it is going to have to come out. It's going to come out one way or another. I can either aid that process in a logical and coherent way, use my mind to aid the process or I can suppress the process and fight it for the rest of my existence, which means it's just going to take longer. That's all. I can do one or the other.

Now it's not very logical to make something take ten years that could take one year. And it's not very logical to make something take a thousand years when it could have taken one year. My suggestion with resistance is, notice when you are in resistance. Every time you exercise your will to deny a painful experience you are in resistance. You will also be denying pleasure in that place, because the soul is not able to distinguish feelings between pain and pleasure and selectively feel them, without using the mind. And we are saying that the mind can no longer be dominant.

What we are saying is that the soul needs to be allowed to experience its thing. It needs to do its stuff, and the only way we are going to allow it to do its stuff is by allowing it to feel everything, which includes its pain and its pleasure. If we try to shut down either we are going to be creating a major problem for our soul in the future and a major problem in terms of our soul's development. Our soul cannot develop while it's being shut down in one way or another or both directions.

I'd encourage people to notice when they are resistive. Like, quite often a person comes up and says to me, "I haven't done much progressing in the last year and I'm not really sure why that it is." I'm saying, "Why aren't you sure? You're obviously in resistance. You should be sure of what is creating your resistance. I know what is creating my resistance. Why don't you know what is creating yours?"

**Interviewer:** So it's one or the other. Basically you're in resistance or you're progressing.

That's right! You're either resistant or you're progressing. There's no real middle state from those two places. You're either in progression and fully engaging progression or you're in resistance.

Sometimes you can be in resistance on one issue and progressing on another. That is possible. But when it comes to each issue individually you are either in resistance or in progression. My suggestion to people is to at least know why you are in resistance. At least know. Don't ignore it. Don't try to make out that you're not when you are, because nothing will happen then. If you make out that you were doing something that you're not doing, of course nothing can happen. So be real about it. "I know that I'm resisting this issue." Work out why. Use your mind to find the reasons why you're in resistance to this issue and then, once you become aware of the emotions involved, allow the emotions to be processed so that you are no longer in resistance.

The soul's natural state is to grow. It's like: again we can do an analogy with nature. You plant a tree. It would make no sense to put a complete structure around a tree that would normally grow thirty, forty, fifty meters high so the tree could only grow one meter high and then to do everything possible to stop the growth of the tree. But that's what we're doing with our souls. Our soul is made to grow. God designed it that way, to grow. Actually God designed our soul to exponentially grow, continuously, ad infinitum. That's how God created our soul. It's not like our soul is limited to being fifty meters high. Our soul is not limited, not a limited creature if we receive Divine Love, so why would you choose to limit it? It can only be an error of some kind that would cause such a choice. So find it and release it. Don't live with it, because while you're living with it you're putting structures around your soul to constrain it and that's going to damage its development. You don't want to do that. You don't ever want to resist, and particularly knowingly resist.

**Interviewer:** I do that plenty.

Well, find the reason. My suggestion would be to find the reason why. What is it about growth that is challenging? Or why do you wish to resist? What is it? For a lot of people it's generally the pain. The resistance is the fear of pain, not understanding that pain is a healing process. When you release it and experience pain it's a healing process. Most people still resist pain and as a result of that they can't grow. That's why they get resistive. I also find that many people are not coping with overwhelm. They are not coping with being overwhelmed emotionally. To grow in its emotional expression your soul must be overwhelmed. That's how it gets stretched. It's sort of like getting a balloon and deciding to not put any air in it, which is what we often do with our soul. Our soul is made to stretch and expand, infinitely in fact, and yet many of us don't blow the air in to get that process started. We are not assisting the process. We are afraid of its growth as much as we are afraid of it shrinking.

**Interviewer:** I know.

And that makes no logical sense either if you think about it. Our soul is designed to grow. So while I'm restricting it, I'm attempting to work against its own design, what God has put into it, the design that God has made. So it makes sense instead to start filling it with air, filling it with something, to help it grow.

To grow it's going to have to stretch. It's going to have to stretch, and in fact as we receive Divine Love, we stretch even beyond our original capacity to stretch. That's how God created our soul, that we can be turned into a new divine creature through the reception of Divine Love. We need to allow for the fact that we are not only going to stretch to what we were originally created to be but we can also stretch infinitely beyond that capacity. Now that can't happen if I'm resistive to being overwhelmed. If I'm constantly going, "I don't want to get overwhelmed, I want to receive a new truth but I don't want to be overwhelmed by it." I'm timid with regard to the reception of new truth in that regard, and I'll be constantly resisting progression. I'll be in resistance most of the time. That makes no sense at all. We are working against our design, the design of our soul when we are in resistance. It is far better to understand the principles of resistance and go, "Okay, there it is again, I'm in resistance." Find out why. Use your will to discover why. Use your will in a positive direction to assist your soul in its growth.

**Interviewer:** Can we use the example again?

Sure, yeah, the same example of violence.

**Interviewer:** Yeah, so the truth is: "That violence towards anyone is not loving," and the error is: "That person has made me angry so violence towards them is justified."

Okay, we are looking at this principle with respect to resistance. Here we're saying that the person who is thinking these things is resistive to letting go of the error that violence is justified; that's what they're doing. They're saying, "I don't see any point in letting go of this. The truth is that there are times when violence is justified and the truth is that if your child was being hurt you would revert to violence, I know you would," and they come up with all of these arguments, which are just basically an expression of their rage at accepting the truth that violence is never justified.

Now while they are expressing their rage at accepting the truth they are never going to release the error. The error is still going to remain within them. Whatever the error is that causes them to think that way is going to remain for good, unless they have less resistance to accepting the need to release the error.

So it's one thing to acknowledge, "This is how I feel." It's quite another thing to justify holding on to it. It's one thing for me to acknowledge, "Yes, I have emotions in me where I do feel violence is justified under certain conditions." That's one thing. It's quite another thing to justify the reasons for my holding onto those particular emotions.

What I'm suggesting is that a person in resistance will justify holding on to the error, and it's unjustifiable. There is no logical reason for doing it but obviously they believe there is one. But there is none. There is no logical reason for their holding on to such an error. Now, a person who wants to overcome resistance would use their will instead to go, "Wow, I really want to hold on to this error. Like, I really want to hold on to it. I really want it to be the truth. I want to believe that there are times when violence is justified." Then if they allowed themselves to think about that and use their mind and their will to find out the reasons why, they would soon come to the conclusions of why they want to believe that.

There'll be all sorts of emotions involved in that, right the way through to unjust things that happened in their past and they would really like to get the person back for what happened to them. There'd be unreleased hurt about the unjust things that have happened in their past, that causes them to feel that way. There might be unreleased hurt about sexual matters such as sexual abuse and rape and those kinds of issues. There might be unreleased emotional hurt about violence that has been perpetrated towards them. If they were truly honest about that and wanted to get out of resistance they'd be willing to go to those emotions. If not they will continually justify their position.

This is what I find happening quite regularly with people in resistance. They come up to me and say, "I'm in resistance." And I go, "Okay, no worries, there's no problem being in resistance, that's not the problem. The problem is your wanting to stay there. That's the problem. What are you in resistance about?" They say, "Well, I'm in resistance about the fact that, you know, I don't want to accept that I've treated my children badly." I go, "Okay. Well how are your children treating you now?" "Oh well, they're not really happy with me. They all feel that I've treated them badly." "Right, so you're resistive to acknowledging that fact and how is it working out in your relationship with your children? Not very well obviously, right? Because they'll be feeling one thing and you're acting another. Not very good. So why do you want to hold on to this? Why do you want to hold on to this concept that it's justified that you treated them badly, or that you don't even think that you've treated them badly at all? You're in complete denial. Why do you want to hold on to this when it's being reflected to you in the course of your day? Through God's Law of Attraction, it's being reflected to you all the time. Why do you want to hold on to that concept?"

Oftentimes they'll get down to the feelings of guilt and shame they have and other different emotions if they are willing. If they are not willing they'll fight. "Well I only knew what I knew then and I know better now of course, but back then I didn't know better and I shouldn't be blamed for things that I didn't know," and now all of their errors are coming out. Their unwillingness to take personal responsibility for actions they've taken in their life that were based around an ignorant position, for example, which is part of the error that they've just expressed. They are unwilling to accept these errors, that they are actually errors within them still, which stop them from accepting the truth.

So my suggestion to them would be to choose differently. Use your will, choose differently. Choose to see the error. Choose to acknowledge it. Choose to firstly intellectually acknowledge it but secondly feel it. Feel the error. And a lot of it is about repentance. A lot of it is about a person's resistance to repentance. You see, we are very happy to acknowledge that someone else has done something to us. Usually we are quite happy about that. We are not so happy to forgive them because we feel that that's letting them off the hook for what they've done, so we're not happy about that. But when it comes to our being sorry for what we have done to others, the majority of people have huge resistance to that. And that is usually the most common cause of resistance in our soul. The most common reason for us to not progress is that we don't want to acknowledge what we have done.

**Interviewer:** So it's sort of like not taking personal responsibility for everything in our soul.

Exactly. And not taking responsibility for the fact that not only have we created pain in our own soul but we've also created pain in other souls as a result of our choices and decisions. Now if I understood resistance and I didn't ever want to get into resistance and I understood progression I'd be willing to go through the process of repentance. I'd be willing to work out the reasons why I chose to take the actions that I chose, that obviously harmed others and myself. I'd be willing to look at those particular things. I would not be willing to stay in a state of resistance. But if I don't honour my soul and I don't honour what God has created I may stay in states of resistance for thousands of years.

In fact, in the spirit world the main reason why people do not progress has nothing to do with belief systems. It has everything to do with their unwillingness to repent and forgive. That's the main reason why people stay stagnant for thousands of years in their soul progression. It's not even because of the way they exercise their mind. It's because of their unwillingness to feel specific emotions, of repentance and forgiveness in particular, that cause them to not be able to progress.

So if we understood resistance and progression in the soul we'd be pretty resistive to holding back our own progression. In other words, whenever we felt inclined to be resistive we'd be looking very carefully, like with a magnifying glass, at the reason why we're trying to be resistive, instead of just trying to brush over it all the time and make it go away and trying to justify it and minimise it and shift the blame to somebody else. We'd be constantly on the lookout for our points of resistance, because it's our points of resistance that eventually prevent our relationship with God. It's not going to be the truths we accept that prevent our relationship with God. It's going to be the errors that we're unwilling to release that cause the injury to our relationship with God and also to our relationship with ourselves and our friends and partner and children and everyone else in our life. It is our resistance that is going to cause that damage.

My suggestion to people is to understand resistance. Understand that your will is being exercised to shut down this process, the process of absorption, the process of understanding how progression occurs in the soul. Use your will differently. Actively choose to use it differently, and use your mind. Instead of using it to deny you've ever done anything wrong and using it to deny that something is wrong or using it to minimise or shift the blame onto somebody else and not take responsibility yourself, use your mind in a completely different direction - to aid your soul's progression, not to limit it or inhibit your soul's progression.

I feel that if people understood the principle of resistance they would never get into periods of resistance. They'd get into moments of resistance, for a day or two, maybe. But they would never get into periods of resistance that last years and years of their life if they understood the damage that it does to the progression of their soul. Do you have a question?

**Interviewer:** I was just going to say that the resistances can be reason upon reason upon reason upon reason upon reason.

Of course. They are often constructed in layers, and remember that resistance is about emotional impediments. So it's emotional reason upon emotional reason upon emotional reason. It's not just intellectual argument. Every one of these intellectual arguments comes from an emotional impediment, from an emotional reason why we are arguing for the error. When I see people arguing for the error, it is a direct indication that they want to hold on to resistance. Of course you're going to harm your own soul and harm the souls of others while you're holding onto resistance. Understand that your resistance is caused by the emotional desire to hold on to the impediment that is causing the resistance to truth.

Why would you want to exercise your emotions in that direction? Feel the emotional reason why instead. For example, you might get down to the fact that you don't want to tell the truth in all situations because you're just scared of people and what they will do. So instead of going into resistance and justifying, "Well, they'll attack me and they'll do this and they'll do that to me; they'll just make my life a misery if I tell the truth so I'm better off not telling truth," that's all just justification of the error, that's justification of you holding onto the emotional impediment. How about using your mind in the completely opposite direction and saying, "There is no justification to my holding onto to this emotional impediment," and letting myself feel that they will hurt me and attack me and that my life will be ... and go through the feelings of that because they are obviously in me. That's the impediment that's causing the resistance.

Understand that it's the emotional impediment, and I need to feel the emotional impediment, to feel my anger at the fact that they'll attack me and feel my anger at the fact that they'll hurt me and all these kinds of things and let myself release the feelings and get down to the grief that's underneath them to the point where I've released it and I go, "Wow, I don't believe that any more. I don't believe any more if I tell the truth I'm going to be hurt all the time."

I said to Mary recently that myself and Mary live in different worlds when it comes to the truth because I know that telling the truth will always benefit me and everyone around me and I feel it all the time. It's directly reflected to me all the time. I have wonderful conversations with people where they connect to the truth and they go away feeling changed. Mary has the opposite occurring much of the time because she is afraid of people and how they will react to the truth, right? As a result of that, up until quite recently, she was sometimes justifying not telling the truth. Now she's working through the emotional impediment to doing that, which is her fear of people's violent, abusive reaction. So feel the fear of their violent, abusive reaction. Once you've released that emotional impediment to telling the truth you will have no resistance to telling the truth. It will just be a natural process because you've released the emotional impediment that creates the resistance and that's what we need to understand when it comes to resistance.

**Interviewer:** Okay

What I'm finding with logic, emotions and truth is that the emotions inside of people just prevent them from being logical. They can't think clearly. It's interesting, I was talking to ... I think Mary recorded it actually. We talked to a group of spirits about logic.

**Interviewer:** Oh, the atheist one?

Yeah, and they were saying how it's very unusual to find a person who's emotional that's logical and they couldn't understand why I was so logical, because I wasn't logical through the exercise of my intellect like they were. And I do find that people do struggle when I enter into a logical discussion of a subject. Do you know what I mean? They really struggle with the logic.

**Interviewer:** Sometimes it can seem a bit conceptual until you put on ... that's where I struggle I think. Put it into an example ...

An analogy or something.

**Interviewer:** Yeah, sometimes it can be a bit like "Whoa." I guess because you're not going "Whoa"; you're going more from your soul, right?

Yeah, no. It sort of feels to me sometimes like there's thousands of subjects and sometimes when I choose an analogy it feels a bit lame in comparison to the topic.

**Interviewer:** Oh.

And so, yeah.

**Participant:** I feel the logic, you can't contradict it. People can't challenge you on that.

Well they can but they use ...

**Interviewer:** But if they're riddled with fear ...

... but they use illogical argument to counter the logic.

**Participant:** That's the thing.

**Interviewer:** Like that conversation I had with my neighbour who just went on and on and on and on about me being in a cult. On and on and I said so many things and he was just convinced that I just wasn't advanced enough to have all the nasty things happen to me that happened to him when he joined some group and had these spirit attacks and he felt like spirits were climbing up his abdomen and stuff like that.

Ew.

**Interviewer:** I know. He was, like, "You're just not advanced enough yet, it's going to happen to you." And I was, like, "It's really not, it's really not." And it was just, no matter what I said, it was never going to change his mind.

Yeah, because a person who is embroiled in their unhealed emotion is incapable of being logical. The truth can't enter them.

**Interviewer:** He was so riddled with fear.

Yeah, and if you are riddled with the emotional impediment you can't accept anything. Sometimes when I am giving a discussion or a talk with people, I come up with one example and I just feel the audience totally blocked to that so I come up with another example and the audience is totally blocked to that. I'm trying to look for examples where I can feel in the audience that there's going to be some emotional openness. And there are sometimes examples that you can come up with ... and I know that once I'm at-one with God, I'll be able to go, "I know the exact example that's going to create ... if any thing's going to create an emotional impediment, this is going to be the example."

Because you can feel everybody collectively, and it's hard in a group obviously, because everyone has their own emotional impediment. The emotional impediments are interesting. The resistances are interesting because you could think of the emotional impediments as being like doorways in the soul. And it's like, "The door is closed, the door is closed," and until some opening occurs on that particular front that door is never going to open, but there might be a slightly variant truth that you can present where there's a door slightly open in the same soul on a related subject. You might use one analogy and the door's totally closed and they don't get the analogy at all, and you use another analogy and the door's totally closed to that analogy because they don't get that analogy at all because of their emotional impediments, but then there's this third analogy where the door, because they've had a bit of emotional processing where they've released a bit of error or no error entered them on that particular subject, the door's slightly open. Now when you say the third thing they go, "Oh, oh I know what you mean now," you know, like ...

**Interviewer:** I had that one yesterday. Something you said to me. "Oh, now I get it."

And that's because with this issue of resistance, there's the resistance, the emotional impediment creating the resistance and there's an unwillingness to address the emotional impediment, or even know what it is, in most cases. And then unwillingness, and then all of a sudden you hit one that's actually open, like a door that's partly ajar, and straight away there's a connection. The beauty of understanding absorption is that when you understand that you've got part-openness in a certain location you won't bother having a conversation with a person unless they are partly open in a certain location. In other words, using the example you just gave of the man who wanted to try to convince you that you were in a cult and you tell him, "I'm not in a cult and I don't have any of those experiences." He's had a lot of bad experiences that are driving his emotions about it all, of course, and we've got to acknowledge that. If you acknowledge that you might have gotten further with him. "You've had a lot of bad experiences and I understand the emotion."

**Interviewer:** Oh I did, and it didn't work.

That didn't work, so you know that that door wasn't open either. He's trying to convince you that you're going to have the same experience through - you know – and of course it's not possible but he's going to try to convince you of such. Unless there's a door open somewhere in this discussion around that particular subject where there is a point of entry where a thought that you are presenting as truth can actually enter his soul, he will not be able to accept any of it. So nothing will ever be absorbed. What I find under those circumstances is that it's basically totally useless having a conversation with that person on that subject.

**Interviewer:** I reached that conclusion at the end. Because in the end he'd reached the conclusion that everything on the planet, any form of spirituality was evil and corrupt and they're all, like, in this big conspiracy theory and the only thing that was safe was Christianity. So then I started talking about some of the flaws in that and I didn't get anywhere and I was like "Okay fine, I give up. I give up totally now."

Exactly. There were no holes anywhere, to him. There were only emotional impediments, only resistance to every course of action. So after a while, you find that the more sensitive you become in your own soul, the more you instantly feel whether there is an openness in the person in any direction. Then you are instantly able to engage that openness by saying the right words and leading them down a certain path, and if there is no emotional openness in any direction with regard to truth then you won't even bother engaging the conversation because it's pointless. It's just pointless. Nothing you do, nothing you say will actually change that person's mind. Nothing you do, even if you love them to bits, they are not going to change their mind, because the emotional impediment is preventing them from doing so.

This is where I feel that if you understand resistance in yourself and you start understanding resistance in other people, eventually you know which conversations to engage and which conversations to just walk away from because it's pointless in wasting your time on conversations where there is no emotional openness, only resistance in every direction you take. It's interesting how people will often ask a question with no desire at all to be emotionally open to the answer, and after a while you start feeling that as well, that it's pointless addressing the question, answering the actual question. You need to firstly address the reason why they are not emotionally open to the answer to the question.

**Interviewer:** So they're just asking a question for another motive.

Yeah. Many members of the media, for example, have asked me questions only to make statements. They are really just making statements of their own by asking a question. They don't want, or expect, or even encourage me to answer it, or give me the time to answer it, because they don't have any interest in hearing the answer. They only have an interest in hearing the question.

**Interviewer:** Yeah, I watched one of the recent ones that was a bit like that.

Yeah, and many people are like that, where there is no ultimate desire to know the answer to any of the questions they are asking. They are only asking the question because they want to be able to say, "I asked that question and he couldn't answer." That's all that they want to say. They remind me a lot of the Pharisees in the first century in that regard. That was the purpose of the Pharisees' questioning. They always had an ulterior motive to their questions and a person who's got ulterior motives to their questions is never going to be self-reflective and they're never going to be able to grow their soul. They are constantly in resistance.

So my suggestion to anybody who wants to share truth with others is to feel the soul of the person, feel where they are emotionally open and engage conversation in that direction. Usually a sincere person is generally emotionally open in some direction of some kind. But as you know there are times when you find a person is not emotionally open in any direction at all except for something physical. In other words they are not emotionally open to any spiritual conversation or direction of truth that you could take. Which is sad for them.

6. What is presence?

That brings us to the sixth point that we want to discuss today and that is this point of wanting to understand presence. Here we're talking about the presence of love along with truth. If I can define it as I've written it here, it says: "Presence is the principle that for truth to be present and absorbed by the soul, love must also be present."

It's a very simple principle. You often hear of people who are telling somebody the truth but they are screaming at them while they are telling them the truth. Now under those circumstances it's very very difficult for the person who's on the receiving end to actually accept anything they are saying as truth, because love is not present. The principle of presence is not being adhered to.

This principle of presence as it affects the soul is this: The soul can feel when love is the underlying intention in the discovery of truth, and the soul can also feel when the underlying intention is not love but a manipulation of truth. As a result of that, if we're sensitive to presence, the presence of love in discussion of truth, then we'll be able to easily determine when a person's out of harmony with love while they are discussing truth, and that also means that the truth is probably not the truth, the absolute Truth. It's only their version of the truth. When we understand that, we understand who to listen to.

Listen to the people who want to help you grow your soul and who have a feeling of love toward your soul. Listen to those people, no matter what they say and how confronting it is. Listen. But don't listen to the people who say they love you and tell you a whole heap of truth but it is really without the presence of love. It's all done for an ulterior motive that you can feel, an ulterior motive of maybe pulling you down or humiliating you or making you feel bad or controlling your will or whatever other type of thing they might be attempting to do.

If a person has love present in the discussion of truth with you, and remember that this is a factor regarding the soul and its absorption of the truth, if love is present, then allow the absorption of the information. If love is not present then be very selective to the absorption of the information, because if you allow the absorption of information when love is not present, there's a high likelihood that the ulterior motive will actually damage your soul. The ulterior motive of the person projecting their particular truth to you will eventually be exposed. It's quite easy to expose a person who does not have presence. It's quite easy to expose their ulterior motive in the end.

I would classify a number of different things to consider with regard to presence, in terms of: "If a person loves you, what would they do? And if they don't love you what would they do?" If we understand that, we would then allow our soul, no matter how challenged it is, and even our mind, to at least listen to the presentation of truth. If we understand that love has to be present in order for truth to be absorbed then we will come to understand within ourselves that we will create an environment of love around us that only absorbs truth because of love.

The reason why this is so important is that many people are being affected by very dark influences, both spiritual and physical. When I say dark influences, they are influenced by the dark reflections, intellectual and emotional reflections, of people on earth, and they are influenced by the dark influences and emotional reflections of people in the spirit world. The reason why they are influenced by these things is that they do not understand the principle of presence, that if we allow a person who's in an unloving state to tell us 'truths' and we allow the absorption of such 'truths', and I use the word 'truths' here in quotations, because they are not really truths, if we allow such a thing to occur there is the potential of further damage to our soul.

That's the principle of presence. If love is present then there will not be the potential of further damage to our soul if we listen to the person, even if what we are listening to is false. It won't damage our soul as we will be able to recognise it sooner or later as false. If love is present it is beautiful having a conversation with somebody even if they are in a state of untruth; it's beautiful to continue a conversation with them if love is present, because it's love that is the guiding factor of the absorption of all things into the soul. We want to grow in love, and remember that this is all about the soul's progression and when we're talking about the soul's progression we are talking about the soul progressing in love, every single time. So if I am in an environment where I'm discussing something with you and I feel the presence of love, then I am in a safe environment for the discussion of this matter. Whether it's truth or not, I'm still in a safe environment. If love is not present in the discussion of this particular truth, I'm no longer in a safe environment for its discussion, whether truth is being discussed or not. I'm not in a safe environment for its discussion.

This is what I find happening a lot in our seminars. I find that people are often asking me for more truth while at the same time treating me unlovingly. Love isn't present. What's the point of discussing more truth?

**Interviewer:** So the love has to be present for both parties?

Yes, yes, in any discussion, for all parties, love has to be present, or if in the case of a group, it needs to be present in the majority of people. If it's not present then the absorption of truth is impossible.

**Interviewer:** Why is that? If we look back to the absorption of truth that we talked about earlier, where you release the error and the truth can come in. How does this impact on that?

Well, this impacts upon your choice to receive truth into your soul. You see, if love is not present you would be very unwise to choose to accept what the person is saying to you, because there's a chance, there's very high chance, that their motivations are unloving. Love is not present. If love is present then why would you resist what they are saying? No matter what it is. There is no need to resist it, because there is love present.

Even if they are speaking an error, if love is present you can still have a conversation. You can still engage the conversation if you know a different truth to what they know. If there is love present then you can have a free and easy conversation with them about the issue, and there's a high likelihood that at some point in the discussion truth will be arrived at. But if love is not present in the interaction between the people involved then there is an automatic impediment to any truth entering the souls of all the people involved. What's the point of saying a truth under those circumstances when the person is also being unloving right in that moment?

All development of the soul is about love. Love is the thing that causes true development. If I ignore love in my discussion of truth, I'm ignoring the reason for discussing truth. That makes sense doesn't it? If I'm ignoring the reason for discussing truth then of course there is little point to discussing truth. The only real reason for discussing truth is so we can obtain more love, so that we can become more loving. As a result of becoming more loving we'll know more and we'll be able to feel more. Our soul will expand. Remember that the soul's expansion is the expansion in its ability to love. And if I'm discussing truth with you with no desire at all to become more loving then I've lost my point. I've lost the point of all soul progression. This is why it's important that love is present. Without love being present I have lost the point of all discussion of truth.

All discussion on truth is for the expansion of love, not for its degradation or its withdrawal. This is why it's important for me to understand the principle of presence and the effect it has on my soul. This is why it's also easier for anybody who is in the room with somebody who is loving to actually hear what they've got to say. Sometimes in a group, and you've been present at some of the groups that we've been at where I get questioned by a person who is bombastic or angry or resistive, sometimes I answer the question, not because of presence of their love but because of the presence of love that I feel in the room. But other times I feel no presence of love in the room towards the individual and no presence of love in the person towards myself, and I feel, "Now I've got to deal with the emotion." The emotion that they have is the first thing I have to address. I can't answer the question until this emotion is addressed, until this reason for their unloving behaviour is addressed.

**Interviewer:** Because otherwise it's not beneficial to anybody.

Not beneficial to anybody in the room. Sometimes in the room I've had one person being angry and resistive, and a good example is any recordings you would have seen of some of the events in Sweden the first time we went there. There was a person in the room in the second discussion there who was not present in love and he was just wanting to attack, attack, attack, attack and be bombastic and attack and so forth. As a result of that, eventually other people around him started attacking him. Initially while he was attacking me I was okay and comfortable with trying to address the issues, because there was the presence of love in others and they could at least see the truth. But once the others started attacking him there was no presence of love whatsoever. Then I had to stop the whole thing and talk to him about his unloving behaviour and talk to the rest of the audience about their unloving behaviour before I could continue because all were resistive to truth.

Now when I did that, the others who projected the unloving behaviour towards the man involved started to feel the truth of what hit them and they became present again with love. They started to feel some compassion and they started to feel some repentance for their own action and as a result of that they felt more loving and then I could re-engage the man and discuss the actual issue with him.

These are things that happen in interactions with people. When there's love present, even a little bit of love present, you have the ability for people to absorb some truth. If love is not present at all, it's very difficult. It requires a highly developed person to absorb truth when love is not present.

**Interviewer:** Someone who is so humble that they'll just look at whatever their part is in the negative events that are going on around them?

Exactly. It takes a very developed individual to do that, to just continually examine themselves and allow their emotions, allow their feelings, allow their expression and allow all of these qualities of the soul that we've talked about, allow the dominance of their soul, allow the progression of their soul, right in the situation. It requires a very developed person to do that in an environment where there is no love.

So if we wish to make it easier for ourselves and others to progress, we need to consider that all progress is progress in love and then obviously love needs to be present when discussing truth. That's the best thing to do. Make sure love is present when discussing truth. If you can't do that then it's going to require a lot of very very good development on the part of the people who remain to stay there without getting angry or resentful or resistive.

An example of some of the issues that I've raised here is: a person who honours the loving principle of the soul's free will and who wishes to share some truth under all circumstances will be able to tell you the truth about yourself if and only if they have learned in their soul the same truth within themselves. So, I can only tell you a truth about yourself that I have come to accept inside of myself, in my soul. I can't tell you a truth that I can intellectually see but which I personally have as a problem inside of my soul. I can attempt to, but I will have all sorts of problems with that, as we'll point out. If the person had learned a truth in their soul, they would be able to logically describe the truth and define how it is the truth. They would be able to tell you why what they are saying is the truth and how it's the truth. They won't be going, "Bla bla bla bla," every time you ask.

**Interviewer:** So it's not like, "Oh you're unloving."

"Oh, you're unloving." "How am I unloving?" "Oh, you're just unloving." "How am I unloving?" "Oh you're just unloving." Well there's a person who has no idea why you are unloving and so there's a high potential that you're not unloving. Do you know what I mean? They are not describing to you why they believe you are unloving, because they are unable to. They are unable to because they don't have the truth about it in their soul. That's why they are unable to. They will only be able to describe it by having the truth in their soul and therefore being able to tell why you are unloving. It makes sense doesn't it? They will be able to tell you why the condition of error exists within you. They will be able to say, "This is the truth, this is why it's the truth; this is the error you have and this is why it's the error, and this is why you have this error. You have this error because this event happened in your childhood ..."

They'll be able to feel the events, in fact, as to what created these errors inside of you, and they will have compassion for the error that's inside of you, and its creation. They will be able to show you how to remove the condition of error from your soul. They'll be able to give you instructions if you ask them, about how to actually let go of this error that's in your soul, what you actually need to do to process the error in your soul. And they'll be able to do all of that while still honouring your free will. That is, they won't be browbeating you and trying to control you and manipulate you and push you around while they are doing that. They will honour every choice and decision you make during the discussion. And on top of that they'll be able to do that and stay in a condition of love themselves. That's a person who is present.

**Interviewer:** So that person has to be quite, well, they have to be very well developed on that particular point.

On that particular point yes, that's correct. It might not mean that they are very developed on another point, but at least on that particular point they have to be very developed, yes. Remember that everyone's development is different on particular points so it is possible for that to occur, although generally what happens is that people who are not present on one point are often not present on many points. Love isn't present within them on most points in fact, the reason being that they have some very low development of their soul; they are using their intellect to discuss truth and they are very unaware of their soul's development. When they are unaware of their soul's development they are also unaware of the lack of love that their soul portrays in the discussion of truth. They don't even believe they are being unloving when they are being totally unloving. I have had Christians and others yelling and screaming at me and I say, "You are being very unloving now," and they don't believe it, because their souls are not yet sensitive, to their own expression of violence.

If we look at the opposite of that, the flip side, the inverse of that, we can see that a person who does not have truth within them and who does not honour the loving principles of free will and so forth will have a completely opposite effect in their discussion with you. For example, they will attempt to denigrate you with their truth. Instead of upholding you and trying to promote your development they are trying to pull you down, tug you down; make you feel worse about yourself. They are trying to do that overtly. It's not something that you just feel. It's something that they are obviously trying to do.

Remember that sometimes when a person tells the truth, we feel they are attacking us when they are not really, but there are times when it's pretty obvious that the person's just trying to pull you down. Most of the time they'll tell you that you're an idiot and you're this and you're that. They'll use all the words attempting to pull you down, which is a part of the fact that they just wish to denigrate you and condescend to you and belittle you. If they wish to denigrate, condescend and belittle you, they are not present with love. They are present with a lot of evil and dark emotions that they would need to address if they really wanted to become present. They are not present in love. It's highly unwise for me if I'm in the reception of that to actually listen to what they've got to say, to actually value anything they've got to say.

**Interviewer:** An example of this is last week I had spirits telling me all week I was completely useless and I was taking it on.

Yes. See, if you honoured presence you wouldn't have taken it on.

**Interviewer:** Well I didn't even realise it wasn't me until half way through the week and then something changed. Then I was like, "It's not even coming from me."

Even if it was you, you would still not do it, because you would honour presence.

**Interviewer:** Yeah, I wasn't loving myself.

Exactly. So presence is irrespective of who's in there. Even if you are there alone presence is, "I must love myself while I acknowledge my error." You see? If I am attacking myself while I'm acknowledging my error I'm not present. I'm not present with love, even if it's just me myself. I'm not present with love. How can I grow in that state? I can't.

And of course that state is going to encourage a whole heap of dark spirits to come and dump on you as well, dump their emotional crap on you and cause less presence of love to be there while you are trying to accept a truth and the reality is that you weren't accepting a truth. You're not a bad person at all; you are the pinnacle of God's creation, right? All you are doing is punishing yourself for something that you perceive is wrong about yourself. Many times we create our own lack of presence, our own lack of presence of love.

**Interviewer:** Through our own lack of self-love.

Through our own lack of self-love, yeah.

**Interviewer:** And that's a point of resistance to work on?

That's a point of resistance to work on. Why am I resisting loving myself? That's a very very important question to answer, because if I resist loving myself, of course everyone around me is going to resist loving me. That's probably going to be what I attract. So it's very important for me to be present with love with myself, even if no one else is there. I need to be present with love with myself. Whenever I'm not I need to recognise that that behaviour is out of harmony with soul progression. It's out of harmony with the development of my soul and the growth of my soul. I need to see that. Every time I attack myself I need to see what I am doing to myself. I am not being present with love with myself. So yeah, often we revert to this behaviour even towards ourselves, alone.

**Interviewer:** I know.

Which is a problem obviously.

**Interviewer:** It is. It doesn't make you feel very good.

No. I mean, we don't need anybody else to do it to us because we do it to ourselves enough, right? That is an indication of a lack of personal presence, where we are not personally present with love with us and so we need to address the emotional reasons why that's the case. We need to become present with love, even towards ourselves, if we truly want to grow.

The person will also have no logical idea or concept as to why their truth is the truth. Often you will ask them, "Why is that the truth?" and then they'll present something and you'll say, "I can't agree with that because of this and this and this," and then they start getting angry and belittling your character again. They revert to belittling your character or tearing down your character. These are the kinds of people who are not worth listening to.

Now you might just sit there and put up with it maybe, depending on the circumstance. You might have to if you are in prison doing it, but you don't have to absorb it. It doesn't have to enter you. It doesn't have to go into your soul because the reality is that love is not present when they are doing this. They won't be able to tell you why the condition of error exists within you. They won't be able to tell you what childhood event or what things happened inside of you. They won't be able to tell you any of those things. They won't be able to tell you why. They won't be able to tell you how to remove the condition of error. They won't be able to tell you that either. They won't be able to tell you and they won't honour your free will while they are doing it. They will try and browbeat you into submission. These are the kinds of principles of a person who is not present. And a person who is not present does not honour the fact that love needs to be present in the discussion of all truth, and love needs to be present if a soul is going to progress and a soul is going to heal. So I feel that they are the main points of presence. Staying present with love.

**Interviewer:** Can I ask another question?

Sure, sure. Fire away.

**Interviewer:** These are two extremes. Are there any places in the middle as you're progressing? You might be able to have compassion for someone and explain what's gone wrong but not be able to feel what happened in their childhood as to why it happened.

Exactly. Because that's going to depend very much on your development.

**Interviewer:** Right, so you've only shifted little bit so you can see ...

... you can see a little bit.

**Interviewer:** You can see what's just changed in you that hasn't changed in them yet but you haven't released all of it in you to be able to ...

... tell what's in them.

**Interviewer:** Exactly.

To feel what's in them and to tell what childhood event occurred in their past that would allow you to feel their childhood event. If you haven't released it yourself then you're not going to be able to feel their event and what occurred for them. The reality is that the soul is like an open book. In New Age circles there's this concept of the soul records if you like, the Akashic Records they call them. Well that's just your soul, an open book to anybody who has the development to feel it. The reality is that the more developed we become in love the more we can feel the soul of others, the more we can feel their true nature and condition, the more we can feel their errors, the more we have compassion for them, the more we understand where they are coming from, the more we see why they have that error based on what happened during their childhood. We can actually recall their childhood events to them that they can't even recall themselves because that record is available to us. That's what happens once we have development in love. Now obviously that's being fully developed in love, let's call that - although there's no such thing because there's infinite progression in love. But for most of us here, we are not fully developed in love, so there are some parts of that that we can do but other parts we cannot.

We need to come to terms with the fact that while we are developing we are not going to be able to see everything in everyone else. We are not going to be able to see everything. We are not going to be able to be present all the time. None of these things that we've described we'll be able to do all the time. However, we'll be able to at least aim for them if we are focused on the progression of our soul. But you're right. It is a gradual process of becoming present and as we notice more and more we'll become more and more fixed on becoming present, with love, being love when discussing truth. We will also avoid more and more the discussion - when I say avoid, we won't avoid the actual discussion, we'll confront the reasons for the unlovingness in the discussion before we answer any questions - if we notice that love is not present. You can see me doing that more and more in my discussions with people and also more and more in my presentations where I am becoming more and more certain and direct with people about a lack of love. After all they are coming along to hear about love, to grow in love and yet they are being unloving right in that moment. And so more and more we are trying to address those particular issues and therefore allow love to be present in the room.

If love is present in a room of two hundred people, speaking the truth has a powerful effect on two hundred people. If love is not present in the room with two hundred people, speaking the truth generally has almost zero effect on the people in the room. And that's something we need to understand about this issue of presence, the power of love to open the soul to experiencing itself and experiencing emotion and eventually absorbing truth. That brings us to the conclusion of the six points that we wanted to discuss today. I'd like to thank you for your time in doing that.

**Interviewer:** Thank you for asking.

Yeah, it's a pleasure. Hopefully anybody who's listening to this particular discussion, my suggestion is that if you're on the FAQ channel, the future FAQ questions that we're going to be asked about the soul, many of them will refer to these particular points in those discussions and so it's great if you can go through these things, these particular things myself and Luli have discussed in understanding the particular aspects of how the soul operates because it will help greatly in understanding my answers on the FAQ channel to the different questions that people ask about how the soul operates. But we'd like to thank you for your time today. This will be an interview as well as a series of questions or statements on the FAQ channel. We look forward to seeing you on both of those channels at some point when you listen to this discussion. Thanks for your time and thanks to Lena and Igor for doing our recording, our long recording for us today. Thanks guys.

7. What is suppression?

**Mary:** Welcome everyone, this afternoon. I'm Mary Magdalene and I'm going to be interviewing Jesus as a continuation of an interview that he started with Luli Faber a couple of weeks ago about how the human soul operates.

Today I'd just like to ask you about the seventh principle pertaining to how the human soul operates - called suppression.

Yes.

**Mary:** Would you be able to explain to us the principle of suppression with regard to the soul?

This is a very important principle when it comes to the soul, and it's a principle that I feel that most people on the planet do not understand about their own soul and how their own emotions work. If you attempt to suppress one emotion inside of the soul, then all emotions will be suppressed to a certain degree inside of the soul at the same time. In other words, it's impossible to have suppression of one emotion and not expect that the rest of the soul can operate with free expression. I think I'd just like to read my description of it, and then we can discuss it in a bit more detail.

I've said that suppression is the principle that: A person using their will to suppress any one emotion within the soul will also suppress the entire soul and they will therefore be unable to experience all emotions to the full extent, whether the emotion being suppressed is painful or pleasurable and whether the emotion desired is pleasurable.

I've been quite specific with that definition because it's very important that people understand that they can even attempt to suppress pleasure and that will also have an effect of suppressing other parts of their soul as well. It's impossible to suppress one single emotion inside of the soul without it having an effect on the other parts of the soul. I constantly find people believing otherwise and the reality is that if you want to progress towards God, attempting suppression of any emotion inside of the soul is very counter-productive in terms of any soul progression that you might make. I feel a lot of people believe they can do it and also dearly desire to do it and as a result of that they often have a degree of success of suppressing an emotion without understanding the effect it's having on the rest of their soul.

**Mary:** Yeah, if we can maybe talk about that.

So, talk about a few examples.

**Mary:** Some examples, and also what you mean by people believing that they can do it. Now they might not have a conscious belief that they can do it but their behaviour demonstrates ...

Their behaviour is such that they believe they can do it. Yep. It's a very common belief on the planet and if you look at almost everybody's day-to-day life, they are suppressing certain feelings. You can see it written all over their body, their face, everything, how much they are in suppression of certain emotions, and they believe they can still have other emotions, that they feel are good, to the full extent and they can't. That's the sad thing. You can never experience any positive emotion to the full extent while you are suppressing negative emotions. It's just impossible.

**Mary:** Let's talk about some examples. Do you have some examples that would demonstrate this principle?

None that readily come to mind at the moment. (Laughing)

**Mary:** I can think of a couple of things. I have a few clarifying questions that I would like to ask as we go along as well. But, say I'm really afraid of a lot of things in my life. Say I'm afraid of being humiliated. I'm afraid of making mistakes. I'm afraid of disappointment. I'm afraid of trying really hard for something and then, you know ...

Feeling disappointed that you never got there.

**Mary:** Feeling I failed. Yes, yep. Let's say that's me and I've got all of those emotions and as I'm going through my life, certain things happen in my work life, say, and these emotions begin to be triggered. From what you're saying if I then suppress those emotions ...

... which you are already doing before they are triggered anyway, because they would never be triggered, the Law of Attraction would never operate in such a way that the emotions that you didn't have would be triggered. The Law of Attraction, as a perfect Law of God, works in such a manner that the actual feelings that you have within you cause the attraction. It's not the actual future things that happen as a result of the trigger. The trigger is a result of the soul already being in a state of suppression.

**Mary:** Okay. So given that we know that I'm already suppressing those fears in my day-to-day life ...

Pushing them down in your day-to-day life, yep.

**Mary:** What does that mean for the rest of my soul?

Well, firstly every aspect of your life that is under the control of those particular areas that you are suppressing will also be affected by your suppression. For example, if you're afraid of humiliation this will cause you to no longer act freely, particularly in public or in company. This is a result of the suppression of that humiliation emotion. While you are suppressing the emotion of being humiliated you are also making decisions and choices that cause you to avoid areas where you might finish up being humiliated, and so of course it's affecting a large area of your life already.

**Mary:** And that's my actions?

That's your actions.

**Mary:** So it's affecting my actions.

It's affecting your actions and your decisions and the choices that you're making right at that time, but larger than that it has an effect inside of the soul when it comes to desire. While I'm suppressing fear in my soul, I am also suppressing every other thing inside of my soul and the extent to which I suppress the fear will be the extent to which I am suppressing other parts of my soul. If I suppress a feeling that I will eventually be humiliated and I don't allow that feeling to be experienced, I am also suppressing all of my desires. This includes all of my sexual desires, all of my desires in my day-to-day life in terms of love-based relationships. It includes all of my desires with my children, my desires for my future and all of these other areas.

**Mary:** My creativity.

Our creativity and all of these other areas are suppressed at the same time. We can't connect to them. We won't be able to connect to them. So we're having a much larger effect than it just affecting our actions about the particular thing that we think the fear is related to. The reality is that when we suppress it, our soul, we are suppressing whole areas of our soul now, areas that are even completely unrelated to the original point of suppression.

This is where I feel that most people don't have any understanding at all as to why they feel disconnected from their lives. They have disconnected from their lives because they are suppressing certain aspects of their life. That causes the soul to suppress all parts of those things associated with those aspects as well as suppressing any other emotion that may be just as overwhelming even if it's in a positive or a negative direction. It has a powerful effect on the soul in lots of different ways, and ways in which most people on the planet have no appreciation of in terms of their day-to-day life. Many people on the planet now are complaining that they don't feel connected with themselves. They don't feel connected with their life. They don't feel much joy in their day-to-day life at all. This is because of the level of suppression they have, of what they view as the painful emotions. This suppression of painful emotion causes a suppression of the experience of pleasurable emotions. In the end you end up with a suppressed person unable to experience pain or pleasure, and even doing extreme things in order to feel as a result.

**Mary:** From what you're saying I have a picture of, um, this kind of dampened-down soul. Within our soul we know, I feel, that there are all these emotions and passions and desires and all these things. Some of them are happy, loving ...

... but for them to be experienced they have to come out of the soul. They can't remain within the soul. They have to be experienced by going through an experience of the release of these emotions, so that these emotions will come out of the soul. That's our natural state. Our natural state is to have desires, not only have them but to also act upon them. That's our natural state. We act upon all of our desires.

**Mary:** Have our desires, have our emotions and ...

... act upon them.

**Mary:** Experience them.

Experience them. And we see the experience of them. We feel the experience of them. That's how the energy of these emotions is released.

**Mary:** If we didn't have any suppression, our soul would be experiencing desire and emotion in a really expansive way. Is that right?

In a constant state of experience; emotions and desires and passions all being experienced. There'd be a lot of joy because we're not suppressing anything. Any times we are acting out of harmony with love there'd also be a lot of pain through the experience of these desires, and this is the problem. The problem is that we're in this state where we would naturally experience desires, passions, longings and all these other things, and it will all fly out of our soul as a never-ending stream of energy, if you like. But because we've acted out of harmony with God's Laws of Love, some of these things that come out of the soul are painful in their experience, and so then, instead of correcting the action that's out of harmony with the Law, we decide to suppress the result by suppressing the painful experience. Now the painful experience is the result of our action out of harmony with the Law. It is not the cause of our pain. The pain is the result, or the effect, of my actions that are out of harmony with love. When I choose to suppress the pain I am not addressing the cause of the pain and also, due to the way the soul has been made, I will even suppress the pleasure and the good things that my soul has also created.

**Mary:** So this, yes, wow.

It's pretty big when you think about it that way.

**Mary:** It's a big statement, yes.

Because basically what we're saying is that if we look at the truth about God's Laws we know the truth about them is such that, whenever we break them, or whenever we act out of harmony with them, we will have pain and suffering as the result. So the real cause of any pain that's within our soul is the action taken out of harmony with love. That's the real cause. Now most of the time we don't honour that as the real cause, right? The majority of the people on the planet don't honour that as the real cause of their pain and suffering. They feel the pain and suffering that is the result of acting out of harmony with the true cause but instead of attempting to correct the cause they suppress the result.

What I'm saying with this principle of suppression is that if you choose to suppress the pain and suffering which is the result of a cause, a result of breaking the law, if you choose to suppress it, you not only suppress it, the very thing that causes the pain and suffering but you also suppress the experience of any pleasure. This is a compensatory effect that's placed upon the soul, as a part of the nature of how God's created it, to show you that something is wrong with choosing suppression. This is a law that governs the soul; with this particular law that governs the soul, this principle that governs the soul, God is trying to expose to us the results of our own suppression of pain.

If we look at it more fully, the breaking of the law creates the pain. The suppression of the pain also causes the suppression of the pleasure, which results in more pain. God's attempting to show us that if you try to solve the effect rather than getting at the cause, you are going to create more pain and suffering for your soul. That's really what God's trying to do through this principle of suppression, to show us that when we choose suppression we are actually causing a further degradation of our own experience and therefore we are going to cause more pain to our own experience.

**Mary:** Yeah. So understanding a little bit more about the dynamics of this law or this principle and how it works on the soul: As we said earlier, the soul in its natural expansive state is feeling all kinds of things and as you mentioned, when it acts out of harmony with the law there's pain.

There's pain and that's an experience.

**Mary:** Yes. And so if I imagine the soul as a really big soul now, there's lots of passions and joy and all these things as well, if I just act out of harmony with the law there's pain. So now if I choose to then suppress that pain ...

... rather than experience it ...

**Mary:** Yes, rather than experiencing it ...

And remember that the pain is the consequence of breaking the law, so it's a part of the Law of Compensation. It needs to be experienced if we are ever going to grow.

**Mary:** Yep. So as I suppress it, what I'm getting a vision of is that everything suppresses with it.

Contracts. Yes.

**Mary:** ... to the point of my suppression. Is this correct?

That is correct.

**Mary:** So if I suppress it a whole heap, Voom, everything gets very small. If I allow a little bit of the pain and then I put a dampener on it then I'm still allowing joy, pleasure, desire, passion and other emotions, but then if I feel a fear in there and I suppress that then everything has to contract with it. So, from what you're saying, it's really about the experience of any emotion being affected by the suppression of just one.

Correct. And the experience of every emotion is affected by the suppression of just one emotion.

**Mary:** Yes. So the level that we're allowing any emotion would be the greatest extent ... the level I allow my painful emotion is to the amount I will allow my pleasure.

Exactly. You can see how this is impacting upon many people's lives today. For example, many women complain of a lack of sexual pleasure in their day-to-day life, particularly when they have a relationship with a partner. We could look at what they are looking for: They are looking to have sexual pleasure but their sexual pleasure is greatly suppressed. Many women complain that they don't orgasm easily. They don't enjoy sex as a result because it becomes a trauma and a chore. They don't connect with their body during sex as a result of all of these particular things. The question that needs to be answered is, "What's really happening?"

**Mary:** From what you're saying, what's really being suppressed?

Yeah. What's really being suppressed? And if many women look at it - excuse me, I'll just have a cough – there are obviously a heap of people in the spirit world not very happy with that particular point. I'm even feeling a bit suppressed talking about it. There's an external contraction that I can feel. But let's try to talk about this issue with women with their orgasm. Many women complain that they find it difficult to connect to their orgasm, to have an orgasm, and so forth, particularly having an orgasm just through sexual intercourse. You know, they need stimulus of their clitoris along with other things perhaps, sometimes vibrators and other things in order to achieve an orgasm.

The question becomes, "Well, why is their body so shut down to the effect of these stimuli when other women's bodies are very, very sensitive to these particular things?" And the answer is, "Because they are suppressing certain emotions that control the responses of those particular organs." Now most of the emotions that control the response of those particular organs are based around fear and rage, fear and anger. If you look at the feelings of women towards men you can see that there is generally a lot of anger towards men, some understandably so, and also some fear associated with men, particularly men from a sexual perspective. For example, there's a lot of fear of the man's penis, there's a lot of fear of being penetrated. There's a lot of fear of allowing the heart to be involved in the sex act. All of these particular fears, women generally try to suppress. In other words, they try to keep these feelings at bay. They push them down.

Now in the process of pushing them down they also desensitise their own body to the effect of stimuli that could bring them pleasure in the same area. This is one of the effects of trying to shut down the soul. If you shut the soul down in one particular area you're going to find that there's an effect in lots of different areas of your body, and sensation-wise. Remember that every physical sensation that's in your body is a connection point to your soul. The soul absorbs feelings and sensations and emotions, so while I'm shutting down certain feelings within my soul I am also shutting down the soul's ability to experience the sensations that are coming from the bodies, from the spiritual and the material body. As a result of that I am shutting down the body's ability to fully express the sensory expression given to the soul, which means that the soul is now completely suppressed in those particular areas.

When it comes to things like orgasm, this requires a large sensitivity to touch and feelings and so forth and if you're suppressing all of the emotions that cause the suppression of those bodily areas - and this is one thing that most people don't understand either - when you suppress your emotion you also suppress the sensory apparatus of your bodies, your spiritual and material bodies. Your spiritual and material bodies become less sensitive to touch, less sensitive to stimulus, less sensitive to pain, less sensitive to pleasure, as a direct result of shutting down different emotions in the soul.

Many people complain that their body doesn't seem to work very well but do not understand that this is under the direct control of the soul's emotions, of its shutting down. Remember that the soul is not just emotions, it's also sensory input. So all of the sensory inputs, all of these different sensory experiences that come through the physical and spiritual bodies, enter the soul. If we're shutting down the soul, we're shutting down the emotional experience of these sensory inputs, which has the effect of dulling the sensory input. In other words, we can no longer even feel certain parts of our body. We can even get to the point where we no longer feel it as a sensation, if we shut down our emotions to a large degree.

People have experienced that where they have gotten to the point where they've shut down this, shut down that, shut down this, that they can't even experience pain any more. They can't experience pleasure any more and they finish up even cutting themselves and doing all sorts of things to themselves just to feel, not understanding that the reason they have gotten into this particular condition is that they exercised their choice to shut down one or two specific emotions, one or two specific feelings that they view as painful.

**Mary:** Yep. So you spoke about this idea that just shutting down one emotion, the level of overwhelm or the level of allowance of emotion globally affects the allowance of the level of all emotion. And sometimes we shut down pleasure, don't we?

Of course. For all sorts of reasons.

**Mary:** Sometimes there's a fear associated with pleasure that ...

Yes. A lot of people are afraid of being controlled by their pleasure. In other words, their fear of a lack of control causes them to shut down their pleasure. They want control and in order to have control they shut down their pleasure so that they are no longer drawn into feeling controlled by their pleasure.

As a result of that they are also shutting down other parts of their soul. They are shutting down all parts of their soul, not just their pleasures centred in that particular area where they are shutting down. We can use another sexual example here because it's common. Let's say a person is afraid of love, they are afraid of ever entering a love-based relationship. They realise that their sexual pleasure may draw them into a love-based relationship at some point. In other words, they understand that if they enter a sexual interaction with somebody, they may become so overwhelmed by the joy of the sexual pleasure of the interaction that they want the person very much, and now they feel that their life is out of control. So instead of allowing all of that to occur they shut down their heart to love and shut down their heart to any sexual pleasure. Now of course that means that they'll even shut down their own sexual pleasure through masturbation or anything. They will shut down all of that as well. They'll also shut down a lot of other experiences of pleasure and pain that they may have throughout their life as a result of attempting to greatly suppress this particular aspect of their life. So it can happen with regard to pleasure or pain.

It might not be just pain that causes us to shut down all of our soul but it can also be our pleasure or our fear of pleasure and where pleasure may lead us that causes us to shut down our soul. You see this happen with a lot of people who are religious. They have a deep fear of exercising pleasure in disharmony with what they believe to be God's Laws. And so they shut down their sexual desires or they shut down their pleasures that they believe are out of harmony with God's Laws. But the problem is that as a result of that, they start shutting down all pleasure, and they start shutting down all pain and they become less and less sensitive to the things that they do until they have some kind of awakening to what's really going on.

**Mary:** Sure. But a lot of us, frankly, we just want to avoid discomfort don't we?

Most of the time.

**Mary:** And still want to have pleasure. We still want to party but not have any hard times.

Yeah. And this is why the partying has to become more and more intense in order to be felt. This is why people turn to drugs when they are partying and they are not happy with a dance any more. They have to have a dance with drugs and alcohol and lots of sex and even then it didn't feel satisfying and the reason is that we are desensitised to the actual pleasure that the original thing could have brought us because we have shut down our ability to experience the sensory pleasure that results from it.

**Mary:** So then the first part of this is really that the willingness I have to experience any emotion will affect my capacity to experience any other emotion.

Exactly.

**Mary:** The state of openness I have to any single emotion, the least amount that I am open to an emotion is the maximum amount I'll be open to any other emotion. Is that correct?

Well, it's not strictly correct because we may allow certain other emotions to a greater degree but they will be suppressed in their experience. This is what I am saying.

**Mary:** They won't be their full experience.

They won't be their full experience. They can never be their full experience. You can never be satisfied by the experience of it because you are already suppressing in another area. Suppression in one area causes suppression of all areas, maybe to a lesser degree, but it still causes the suppression. Does that make sense?

**Mary:** Yeah, it does. Because my next question was going to be - you used the instance of sexual pleasure, or sexual terror, let's say. So say someone is abused in their childhood and there's a lot of sexual trauma and terror that they suppress as they grow, or they suppress at the time in order to survive.

And usually their parents or surroundings or the abuser themselves suppresses it in the person.

**Mary:** So they enter adulthood with a lot of suppression of these specific emotions.

Yes.

**Mary:** Now is it true then, that especially the groups of emotions surrounding intimacy and sex will be the most suppressed in them and they might have more allowance of other emotions in other areas?

They may have more allowance of other emotions but the problem with all of the other emotions is that they will also be suppressed. In other words, the joy that they will experience in all aspects of their lives will be suppressed, not just the area that revolves around sexual activity or love-based relationships. This is the problem. If you choose to not heal and suppress certain emotions within you, you are really choosing the complete suppression of your soul in all of its aspects to lesser degree.

**Mary:** Or varying degrees?

To varying degrees, depending on the relationship those degrees have with the original problem. But you are suppressing every aspect. Every aspect; you are even suppressing aspects that are completely unrelated.

**Mary:** In that example, it's a woman who has been abused and she enters adulthood. The area of sexuality in her life is damaged and suppressed and she's not dealing with it so sexual pleasure doesn't happen and there's all this sexual terror inside of her.

Or she only gets sexual pleasure when she's in a controlling situation or abusive situation.

**Mary:** Ah, when she's in control or someone's controlling her.

Yeah, one of the two usually happens, probably.

**Mary:** But that's still a suppression ...

... still a suppression of what the actual pleasure could be, which is a beautiful loving relationship where both people are open and experiencing the pleasure.

**Mary:** Got you. And say in other areas of life she's an aunty and she's got a great career and all these other things. From what you are saying in this principle though, there'll still be suppression or an impedance in the level of emotion or joy she's able to experience ...

... in anything.

**Mary:** ... from those other aspects of her life.

From every aspect of her life, she will find, all sorts of aspects of her life. This is why we find people who have been abused often suppress the sexual part of their life or they act out the sexual part of their life, but also in doing this they actively engage a lot of other activities trying to distract themselves. But they never get full satisfaction of those particular activities either. They are good at them but they never feel personally satisfied. That is because their soul is suppressed with regard to satisfaction because of the suppression that has occurred based on the painful experience.

**Mary:** Yeah. That's quite a powerful principle.

Yeah. If a person fully understands this principle they will start to understand the total necessity of remaining open to all emotion and the total, what's the word I'm looking for ...? pointlessness? Maybe that's not even the word I really want.

**Mary:** Futility.

... futility of trying to suppress one single emotion. If they could understand that it is a completely futile process suppressing emotion, because you are only suppressing the potential of your future joy, this is obviously going to be very damaging to a soul that wishes to grow.

Also bear in mind that Divine Love is a joy to receive. If you are suppressing any one emotion you are suppressing the experience of any love that would have entered you as well and this is obviously going to have a big effect on your life. If we look at it from the perspective of receiving Divine Love, it's very damaging to suppress emotion inside of your soul.

I'm not suggesting that you have to act upon every emotion inside of your soul. I'm not suggesting that you feel an emotion that is maybe a feeling of doing something degrading and you choose to act upon it because to not do it would be suppression. I'm not suggesting that. I'm suggesting that the desire to do something degrading comes from a suppressed emotion underneath that. You need to discover what that emotion is or, with the help of God's Love, remove it as a cause from within your soul so that you no longer feel the degrading desire. Rather than suppressing the degrading desire, you are better off feeling the degrading desire without acting upon it and allowing yourself to understand its cause or the reason for its existence. If you do that you will discover the reason and with the help of Divine Love you can even erase the reason for the degrading thought, or the desire for the degrading action. As a result of that you won't, mistakenly or willingly, take the action in the future through forgetting to control the degrading action. Once you remove the cause in the soul then there's no need to be afraid of taking any further actions along that path because the cause for taking those actions has disappeared.

I'm suggesting that if you shut down the emotional experience, in other words, if you feel a degrading feeling within yourself, a feeling that you want to take an action that you know is out of harmony with love and you suppress it, you are now suppressing all aspects of your soul. This is not going to be very helpful for you in your future in terms of experiencing joy. You need to do allow the expression of the feeling or the desire that would normally cause you to act in a certain way and instead of acting on it, feel it instead. Feel it enough so that you connect with the underlying cause. Now that is not suppressing the soul, right?

The choice to not feel it, the choice to suppress the feeling of it, is going to suppress your soul and therefore suppress all other aspects of your soul.

**Mary:** Because a lot of us feel that that's how we'd be a good person, to suppress those things.

Of course. And that's why it never works. Sooner or later in our future, whether it's on Earth or in the spirit world, we usually finish up doing the things that we've tried to suppress in our past unless we have allowed ourselves to feel them and find the cause.

**Mary:** Let's take an example again. I'm at work and it's a long day, I've been really busy and right before it's time to go home my boss calls me into her office and she says, "There's these problems with what you've been doing and unless you fix this we're in dire straits and ...," you know. And there are lots of feelings that come up in me of guilt, worry ...

Disapproved of.

**Mary:** Feeling ashamed, disapproved of. I walk out of the office. I kick my toe. I feel terrible.

Which is another indication that you are already suppressing the emotions you just felt.

**Mary:** I walk out the door and I go, "Thank God that day is over. I'm going home to have a big glass of wine." Now what is going on and how does this apply to the principle of suppression?

Well, "I'm going home to have a big glass of wine." The wine is a great way of suppressing or depressing the experience of these sad emotions that you're feeling, right? It's a choice to suppress. If you choose to suppress you are going to find that different aspects of your life are going to be affected besides the one that just got affected by the exposure of these emotions. Instead of doing that, if we were in a perfect world, my suggestion would be, sit in the office and have a good cry while you're getting told these things, and feel tired and overwhelmed and exhausted in that moment.

Most people don't allow that to occur and ironically if you did allow that to occur, you'd probably receive less attack from your boss than you finished up getting in the stoic defence. But most people don't allow that so they get the continued attack from their boss until they leave. But if they walked out the door and felt the feelings of it all, allowed themselves to truly feel the feelings that were triggered, they would probably sit in their car and have a good cry for twenty minutes about the different things, different emotions they felt as a result, unappreciated and lot of other emotions they would have felt. By the time they got home their soul would not be suppressed. They would not need a drink, and they would also probably enjoy whatever happened at home.

**Mary:** And then when their kids get home from school and they'd have much more energy ...

Energy, joy, pleasure. In fact if they had released the emotion related to the work-based event, by the time they got home the work-based event wouldn't even be in their mind. They wouldn't even be thinking about it anymore. When it's fully released you don't even think about it anymore. It wouldn't even bother them anymore. They'd wake up the next day completely happy and unaffected by the experience. When we suppressed though, we suppressed it in the office, we didn't sit in the car and have a cry, we got home and we didn't have a cry when we got home, we suppressed that, we have our drink. That helps suppress even further. Then we have a troubled night's sleep, all sorts of things, all sorts of other pain occurs as a result of this suppression, with the addition that anything that happens at home that we could have otherwise enjoyed we will not be able to enjoy. For example, if our husband comes home all amorous and wants to make love, you won't be able to do that either, right?

**Mary:** Or if we do we won't really be having pleasure.

If we do we won't really be having pleasure. We won't be in it. If our children come home and we want to hear the joy of their day, we won't actually be able to connect to the joy of their day either. There are all these other aspects of our lives that are getting shut down because we've chosen to shut down this particular part of our soul.

**Mary:** And that's really like a microcosm of what you're saying happens on a lifetime scale.

Yes. So think of every single day, most people are getting events, the Law of Attraction brings them events that cause them to feel and experience certain emotions that they don't want to feel. Instead of allowing themselves to feel it, in other words, instead of being humble, they won't allow themselves to feel it. They suppress, not understanding that suppression is going to cause further damage to their own soul and further damage in their ability to experience joy in the future.

**Mary:** Because in that example we gave, a lot of people would say, "Yeah, well she had a stressful day at work, of course things aren't going to go that great when she gets home."

I don't agree. If she had cried before she got home she would find that things would go great when she gets home. If she released the emotions that the event triggered, the event that she attracted because of her own emotions actually, if she released the emotion the event triggered, by the time she got home she would be back in a place of joy.

**Mary:** And because events are bringing us things to trigger past suppression, over many years, if we continue to suppress, it's like compacting the soul and forming barrier upon barrier over these emotions that we're afraid to feel.

This is the reason why, by the time they get to 80 or 90 years of age, many people are very suppressed; you can feel how suppressed they are. Most people can feel how suppressed they are. It's not as if it requires any sensitivity to feel how suppressed they are. They are so suppressed because of a lifetime of suppression, not understanding that every suppression they engage through their lifetime has caused their soul to shrink, and caused the expression of other more positive emotions to also shrink. They get to a point where you can't even feel any positive emotions in them anymore.

**Mary:** Yeah. Got you. So in the example of the woman who comes home from work, a lot of people might dismiss her bad night as stress but really we're saying that she's suppressing an aspect of herself and next month when she goes on holidays she's not even going to experience as much joy as she could have because she's suppressed this thing.

Exactly.

**Mary:** And in ten years time at her daughter's wedding she's still not going to feel as much joy as she could do because she's suppressing ...

Exactly.

**Mary:** By this time continually suppressing this thing.

Probably other emotions. She would be attracting events that trigger these emotions as well because God wants us to express them rather than suppress them. Over this period of time she would have attracted a long series of events to trigger these particular same emotions through her soul's condition, through the Law of Attraction attracting these events. She is suppressing every one of them, not realising that not only is she suppressing the experience of the particular event but she's also adding further damage to the soul in the sense that she's suppressing other aspects of joy, other aspects of pleasure inside the soul, which will now also need to be exposed through negative attractions.

You are creating a minefield for your own soul when you suppress one emotion and I feel that if people fully understood what effects it had they would look at this aspect of suppression and go, "Whoa, I'm never going to do that again," because it is such a powerfully negative thing to do to your own soul, to suppress any emotion.

**Mary:** What if we put that then from the opposite perspective? Five years ago when we met, I feel like I'd been suppressing a lot of emotion for a long time. A lot of us are, as adults. We are just seeking pleasure, suppressing everything negative.

And using alcohol, drugs or depressants. All sorts external stimuli.

**Mary:** Lots of external things and distractions.

And distractions, even using time. We keep ourselves busy so we don't have to feel. That's another distraction and in the end we hardly feel anything.

**Mary:** And a lot of people reach middle age and go, hmm, nothing feels very good any more.

Exactly. This is why.

**Mary:** Nothing. What's a possibility for us as adults if we have been suppressing a lot of things and suddenly we connect to just one thing? Does this mean that suddenly our potentials for experiencing joy ...?

Yes. The opposite is also the case. If I have an allowance of one emotion above all others then obviously all other emotional experiences will also expand. This is the positive aspect of this principle of the soul. This is why you find a person may have an amazing experience of some kind in their 30's, 40's or 50's, that all of a sudden softens them to a heap of other experiences. And this is what happens. Their soul is suppressed. One aspect of it sort of breaks out of the suppression, "Woop," through the Law of Attraction attracting an event that causes them to enable a desire within them and then all of a sudden they grab hold of that desire. Now, because they have grabbed hold of that desire and also allowed this emotion above all others, all other emotional experiences also expand in their potential. This also means that all other painful emotional experiences that have been suppressed expand too, which means that there is the potential that they will have a great experience and then bawl for a week, because they have allowed the greater expansion of their soul's experience of all emotion.

**Mary:** Is this what happens sometimes when people say that when they have their first child, suddenly there's this expansion of joy and it's all so emotional and suddenly they feel all these other things?

And suddenly they start crying every day, sometimes in joy, sometimes in pain. Half the time they don't even know why they are crying and people call it depression. Depression can be the suppression of emotion but when a person's crying all the time and it's not as a result of suppression but rather a result of allowance, then you actually feel like the expansion of the soul is occurring.

**Mary:** And they feel softer ...

They feel softer rather than harder.

**Mary:** Depressed people feel quite distant from themselves often.

Well, a person who is depressed is actually suppressing rage, so generally the major emotion you feel from a person who is depressed is the rage that's underneath the suppression. The reality is that a person who is depressed or getting depressed a lot needs to allow the expression of their rage, not towards the people who they are in a rage with but going outside and hitting a baseball bat against a bag or something and yelling and screaming and swearing until it's all out of them. And then they'll connect to some of their fear and sadness that's underneath that. But if they suppress the emotion of rage they go into depression. Now it's clinically accepted that depression is a state when you can't even feel anything. You can't feel touch, sensations, sexual pleasure, emotional pleasure, you don't have joy, and this is a case of full suppression. But oftentimes the depression is limited to just one or two emotions that they have attempted to suppress.

**Mary:** Yes, and if people can access that, then suddenly ...

Then all of the other aspects of their soul will grow and the depression will go. And that's another thing that they don't understand. This principle of suppression: not understanding it is the major cause of depression on the planet. And you can see too that women, I think, are about 3-5 times more susceptible to depression than men.

**Mary:** Why is that?

Because woman are more accepting of suppressing rage than men. Men usually allow the experience of their rage, oftentimes in ways that are not very nice, but they do allow the experience, whereas women generally won't allow the experience of their rage or anger. They suppress their rage and anger and as a result get into a state that's depressed.

This is a cultural thing. Culturally, it's more acceptable for men to express their anger than it is for women to express anger. This is one of the main reasons why women are more susceptible to depression than men. They don't understand the principle of suppression. They suppress their anger; they are now going to be depressed, because by the time you get to anger you're already suppressing quite a lot. You're suppressing grief and fear and all of your addictions not being met. You're suppressing a whole line of things by the time you get to anger, and then if you suppress anger there's no more emotion to suppress. Now you go into depression, a state where you, seemingly, don't have any emotion, or seemingly cannot experience any emotion. I feel that if people understood suppression, a lot of so-called mental illnesses would also be alleviated.

People also don't understand that suppression also has a major effect on spirit activity in terms of over-cloaking of spirits on a person on Earth. When you suppress a particular emotion, spirits use that particular emotion that you are suppressing in order to control you. The emotion you're suppressing is usually an emotion you're afraid of, and spirits can use this fear against you. They get you to do things that you wouldn't normally do by manipulating this emotion inside of you that you are unwilling to experience. Most people are not aware that it's the suppression of their soul that causes all spirit attraction. When I say all spirit attraction, all malevolent spirit attraction is caused by suppression of something inside of the soul. Again, if you suppress the soul you are not only inviting your own depression or suppression of all of your emotion, but you're also inviting spirits, people who have lived on Earth and who are now in the spirit world, coming along and influencing your life through the things you are suppressing. That obviously has a huge effect on people's lives on the planet. In fact, people have no idea how much spirit influence is affecting most people's lives because of their suppression.

So it's a very important aspect of the soul to understand, this point of suppression, and a very important thing to get, emotionally, inside of yourself. If I understand that every time I suppress a particular thing inside of my soul, and usually it's a painful experience that I'm trying to suppress, every time I do this, I am not only suppressing the rest of myself but I am also inviting control, externally, whether it's people on Earth or people in the spirit world who will now control me through the thing that I'm trying to suppress.

So you're inviting a lot of very very difficult things when you choose to suppress your emotion. Now I feel that it's much more simple to just allow the expression of the emotion, because when you allow the expression on the emotion none of the results of suppression occur. You have the ability to experience joy as well as pain but in addition to that you are not controlled by people externally and in particular not controlled by spirits whom you can't see. There are a lot of advantages to understanding the law of suppression on the soul and how suppression occurs.

**Mary:** Thank you; that's very valuable.

That's alright, it's a pleasure. Thanks guys.

