(Shannon): I've never met Dan Harmon
in person,
but he seems to me like kind of a jerk.
Like in his documentary you can see him
treating people who care about him really
poorly, and I also had a weird run-in with
him on Twitter once, where he blocked me
the same night he was railing and
railing against a kid fan of his for an
off-hand comment.
But, since he wasn't my friend and I had
no real personal connection to him,
him insulting me didn't bother me at all
and had no impact on my continued
consumption of his work.
I still really love early Community
and Rick & Morty is a fantastic show
and I don't think about him being rude
online, or whatever, when I watch it.
Even if I do think it's really dumb and
petty to publicly go in on some Finnish
teen with a Birdperson avatar for
jokingly calling you drunk.
It lowered my opinion of him,
but I don't know him personally,
or pretend to know him personally,
maybe he's great! I don't know, who cares?
And the joy I get from Rick & Morty
pretty easily outweighs all of that.
It's a brilliant show that taps in to
my sensibilities in a rare way,
and resonates with me a lot, and my
exposure to him has in no way detracted
from that enjoyment.
I also used to really love Louie,
and I enjoyed stand-up by its
showrunner and star, Louis C.K.
He seemed like an honest and introspective
artist and his work really hit me deep.
Duckling part two moved me to tears,
like, happy tears.
And as someone who is often unemotional,
that's impressive.
I've only happy-cried a couple of times
in my life!
So for a sitcom to do that is incredible.
But then, you know, I start reading
allegations about how Louis C.K. treats
women. About him cornering women in a
locked hotel room and masturbating at them
and I see him responding in really bizarre
and evasive ways to the allegations,
including saying this:
"Well, you can't touch stuff like that.
There's one more thing I want to say
about this, and it's important:
If you need your public profile to be all
positive, you're sick in the head.
I do the work I do, and what happens next
I can't look after. So my thing is that I
try to speak to the work whenever I can.
Just to the work and not to my life."
Which is a really weird way to respond
to those kinds of allegations!
And then, I hear from young comics
I know in person that it's kind of an
open secret in the industry.
The way creeps in positions of power
in any industry are open secrets, are what
are called "missing stairs"; a term for
someone who is predatory or dangerous, who
has enough clout that people work
to accommodate them and work
around them, rather than "fix" them.
Now, I have not talked to anyone who has 
directly interacted with Louis C.K. about
him. It's not like I'm friends with famous
name comics who have toured with him or
that he ever personally cornered me and
pulled his dick out.
All I have are second- or third hand
accounts, and even then,
the people who this allegedly happened to
are unwilling to go on the record about it.
So I don't even really technically have
their word, and I'm not gonna name
the comics I know who told me about,
stories about, it in confidence.
I do think from what I've read and what
I've heard, though, that the allegations
are at least partially probably true,
and when the realisation that someone who
made art that resonated with me was
probably a creep, it felt like a gut punch.
Like a deep violation, or like a betrayal.
Which, in a way, is very silly because
I've never met him or interacted with him.
I only had a parasocial relationship with him
and with a fictionalised version of himself
on TV and in his jokes. I did actually
briefly interact with Dan Harmon, and he
was arguably kind of a jerk to me. But that
was more of a weird anecdote than anything
and I don't blame him for it or care.
Rick & Morty still rules.
But the Louie-thing got to me.
I quit watching his show. I couldn't
watch it and enjoy it now if I wanted to.
Nobody in my industry has cornered me
and pulled their dick out, or anything
that extreme, but I have had people
much older than me and in positions
of power over me and my career, get weird
and creepy and I've watched as people
in institutions supported them or turned
a blind eye. It's a really horrible,
really crushing feeling, and to come to
the realisation that an artist I admired
probably made other women feel like that;
feel helpless and violated, is rough.
I don't want to give someone like that
or their art my time, or my attention,
or my money; no matter how funny they are,
and I can't help but wonder if other
big comics whose work I love and admire
who worked with C.K. also know.
I bet they do! And if they're just like the
people who protected people who are
creepy to me. I bet they are!
Roman Polanski drugged and raped
a 13-year-old girl. It's not a hazy
second-hand tabloid story, or
a story where I have to keep saying
words like "allegations" and "probably".
It's taken as a fact. He still has a career.
Men and women in his industry defended
him including men and women whose work
I really love and admire.
♪ (Sad music) ♪
A problematic person and a problematic
piece of media are two different things.
Like, I'm sure there are people who never
pulled their dick out or raped anybody
who have made stuff I would consider
harmful, unfunny, edgelord garbage,
and there are people who are abusive
and sleezy who make great work that has
made me laugh or cry and has never in and
of itself alienated or belittled anyone.
But I do think a lot of people handle
both of them in a less-than-ideal way,
and I wanted to talk about my perspective
on it, as a feminist and as a progressive
who has also enjoyed irreverent and
transgressive material, and the people
who produce that material.
I might do a more academic video
in the future on this that involves
more research and in-depth cultural
analysis, but for now, here's a video
focused primarily on my own personal views
and experiences. What people and what
ideas have shaped those views, and generally
how I have come to handle problematic
media and individuals. I also put this
together in part because I got a few
questions about it and I wanted to
elaborate on my answers.
I've talked on Twitter and my Curious Cat
about how I used to post on 4chan,
and how I've always been drawn to people
in the communities that are irreverent
and unfiltered. I prefer blunt honesty
to politeness, and I think niceness
is often a cover, and that ignoring
the dark aspects of life is dishonest
and doesn't at all fit in with my own
life experiences.
There's a great AV Club piece about shows
like Rick & Morty and Bojack Horseman and
The Venture Bros. called
"The Art of Cynical Sincerity"
about how these shows use "other, more
challenging but still affecting veins of
emotion" vs. typical saccharine 
sitcom tropes.
It's subversion and irony and borderline
nihilism, but it's done in the service
of painfully affecting and honest art
and a lot of my favourite media tends to
toe that line in the same way a lot of my 
favourite people and people I'm close to
share a similar outlook.
I think, because I am a progressive and
because my work is overtly positive and
welcoming, people read a lot into my
personality that isn't necessarily there.
For example, people have been surprised
that I'm a fan of something like
Red Letter Media. I know a lot of people
who are kinda disgusted with RLM and their
jokes at the expense of transpeople and
Asian people and so on, and I do take
issue with some of their stances and jokes
and I mean publicly and openly take issue.
But I've been a fan of theirs since 2010.
They're funny and they're insightful and
they care a lot about film and filmmaking,
and they both gave me media that made me
feel much less alone as a morbid weirdo
and influenced my sense of humour and my
editing style. A small percentage of their
jokes being offensive to me doesn't negate
the fact that their material otherwise
delights me and makes me feel less alone.
I also think it's immature and unnecessary
and alienating that the people on the
Chapo Trap House podcast use the word
"retard" and make fun of autistic people,
and I'm pretty public about that too, but
I still love Chapo.
Those are both instances where I can
totally understand when people would avoid
their work because of some of the material.
Like, that's completely fair and I have no
interest in convincing people to watch
or listen to stuff that bothers them,
but for me, the majority of their work
brings something positive to my life and
I feel like the good pretty easily
outweighs the bad.
It's Always Sunny In Philadelphia touches
on a lot of taboo topics.
Dee: I don't think I can eat this guy
Charlie: No, I don't think I can, right?
 Why is that?
Dee: I don't, I don't know.
Charlie: ...It's not because he's black
though, right?
Dee: What!? No, what no! 
I... don't think so.
(Shannon): But I've almost never felt like
they were punching down or being cruel to
marginalised groups in their jokes, and
it's the funniest TV-show I've ever seen,
and one of my all-time favourites.
In The Guardian, Glenn Howerton said:
"The way the show is described often is 
"Wow, these guys don't care." But that's
not true. I don't think the show would
work if it were truly hateful.
It's one thing for the characters to be
misinformed, ignorant or bigoted.
It's another thing for the show to be 
misinformed, ignorant or bigoted." and
"We try not to shy away from jokes that
might make people uncomfortable, but
never at the expense of being sensitive to
people's real life experience."
I also watch SVU which is basically
"Rape Culture: The Show" and I enjoy
a lot of popular edgelord Youtubers like
FilthyFrank, real name George Miller...
(Pink Guy): Have you seen Alien?
Have you seen Alien, please!?
Have you seen Chef!?"
(Shannon): ...and iDubbbz:
(Shannon): My enjoyment of SVU is mostly
ironic, but I legitimately laugh at and
enjoy the Youtube channels...
Frank: Who the hell are you?
Alien: Last time I was on earth, I was
chased away by the humans."
(Shannon): ...despite a ton of racist and
homophobic slurs and pretty overtly
anti-feminist rhetoric. Though to be
clear, it's almost always supposed to be
taken as: "It's a joke, bro, 
edgelord goofiness."
(Miller): It's like impossible to 
take it seriously.
(Shannon): Not any actual alt-right, white
supremacist etc. rhetoric, which I would
find repulsive and unwatchable, but I
still think it's dumb and disappointing
and a bad influence on their fanbase.
Howerton and others involved in Sunny own
their responsibility and make a distinction
between characters saying something that
might potentially offend some people,
or make them uncomfortable vs. being
purposefully offensive or lacking
empathy and sensitivity in
what they're doing.
Ethan: So you're, I mean, is your kind
 of, your style is very anti-PC.
Is that by intention or are you just
expressing yourself?
iDubbbz: It is by intention.
(Miller): The quote of the show is
you know, like, "equally prejudice",
you know, everyone gets shit, you
can't get away at all, if you're watching
the show, you're gonna get offended
one way or another.
(Shannon): This is in stark contrast to 
how Miller and iDubbbz evade responsibility
by saying what they're doing is "just a
character" or
"just a reference", or whatever.
(Anthony Fantano): When I've talked to
you, it doesn't seem that you hold any
of the beliefs that you sort of, espouse
as Filthy Frank on camera.
(Miller, laughing): Yeah, I would hope
not, he's a racist bigot."
iDubbbz specifically, is absolutely
inarguably much, much more regressive
and harmful than anything RLM or Chapo
or Sunny would ever say or do,
regardless of how he hides behind 
it being "just a joke."
His moments of self-awareness or criticism
of bigotry and hypocrisy in others...
(iDubbbz): ♪ All we care about is
news. Personal attacks and harassment
is totally news." ♪
...just serve to make his "borderline
sociopath edgelord white dude who says
the n-word"-schtick that much more grating.
But sometimes, when I need a laugh
there is nothing like watching two men
in a storm drain eating
rotisserie chicken...
Ethan: I can't believe that you can just 
crawl in the sewer and find chicken like this.
iDubbbz: Dude, it's.. it's a lot easier 
than people think."
(Shannon): ...or a crawfish race...
(Cheering)
(Shannon): ...or their really over-the-top
gross-out videos that are basically
Jackass, but for nihilistic 
millennials, which I love...
(Frank): My wife is leaving me for
a man named Esteban. He wears the same
tank-top every day.
(Maxmoefoe, Filthy Frank and 
iDubbbz screaming)
(Shannon): ...and despite the slurs and 
the sort-of animal abuse and whatever,
I do think it's healthy to watch stuff
outside of my comfort zone or stuff made
by people who disagree with me, 
especially if it makes me laugh.
Some of their work is genuinely funny, and
creative and insightful and in
out-of-character interviews, they seem
thoughtful and introspective.
iDubbbz (laughing): This feels mean!
Ethan (laughing): Yeah, this feels mean,
I planned for this to be funnier...
(Miller): The old, old Filthy Frank 
videos, those were just straight up
you know, offensive, there'd be just 
racism, misogyny, fat-shaming
and stuff, and you know, I legitimately 
do feel bad about that kinda stuff.
'Cause I was still very young
when I was doing those videos, I was a kid.
Now, I'm trying to stay away from just 
direct hate-speech, like abusive
comedy, and I've just tried to,
do.. still be offensive, but in different
ways, you know, if you watch my more
recent videos, there's not much...
like, racism or misogyny. It's more,
vomit and dead animals."
iDubbbz: That reminds me of VidCon.
If you ever go to VidCon, you're gonna
meet some familiar faces at that event!
Ethan: Yeah I know, I'm scared.
Hila: We've never been to any of those things
iDubbbz: You might want to.
(Ethan and Hila laughs)
iDubbbz: It's a humbling experience.
The whole thing was a very positive
experience and I'm glad I - and the 
reason before I said it was humbling, and
it really was, it was like, I felt very 
uncomfortable because I had made this
video about him and I was like, I'm 
deserving - It's one of the reasons that
I kind of dislike some of the commentary
channels out there when they go in really
hard, I'm like: "You need to interact 
with these people that you make fun of
in real life just to be reminded of what 
you're actually doing"-kind of thing.
So, interacting with Rafi..
Ethan: When you see his face, and you
recall the terrible things you said 
about him, and you're like "f*ck."
iDubbbz: Exactly! This is real life, he
felt this shit, the internet wall is no
longer there, I'm 5 feet away from him,
it becomes real.
(Shannon): I can't straight-up recommend 
any iDubbbz videos overall though, like I
think my enjoyment of his stuff wouldn't
carry over to most people I know,
and I think he does a lot of harm...
iDubbbz: N----rfaggot isn't the slogan,
the slogan is "hey, that's pretty good!"
Hila: Yeah, come on!
*iDubbbz: N----rfaggot, that's a character!
(Ethan): You've just got so 
many catchphrases!
(Shannon): ...and wish he'd grow up and
not rely on easy hateful jokes...
iDubbbz: Yeah, but the "I'm gay"-thing, I'm 
proud of that. I'm definitely proud of that.
(Shannon): ...but it would be disingenuous
and dishonest to pretend I don't watch
his videos and Miller's just as much as I
watch, or listen to, leftist content like
Contrapoints, or HBomberguy or Chapo,
or less overtly political videos that
still criticise misogyny, racism and rape-
culture the way Red Letter Media does.
Everyone (loud): Oh no! No, don't! No, 
she's not awake! He's rubbing her crotch!
(Shannon): Part of my hesitancy to 
recommend them too, on top of the fact
that it's horrifically immature and 
damaging to throw around slurs all the time
on a basic human decency level, 
that exposure to this kind of material,
even in the form of "jokes", emboldens 
people who are deeply bigoted
and desensitises others to 
bigoted rhetoric...
Frank: Recently I've been getting a lot
of criticism regarding, uh, derogatory
terms towards homosexuality. Words like 
"faggot" and "gay" and just other words
that aren't very, very... very good.
I'm deeply upset myself, for saying such
hurtful words.
Pink Guy: ♪ I hear screaming down the 
hallways, because you're gay. ♪
♪ You're a giant faggot, you should
kill yourself. ♪
(Shannon): It's in my experience that no 
matter how funny he is, the white dude who
uses the n-word in a jokey, ironic way 
in casual conversation
probably has some kind of 
issue with empathy.
And I seriously mean "in my experience",
as in, I've had fallings out with people
like that multiple times in my life, after
a period of wearing rose-coloured
glasses and making excuses for it,
and ignoring it.
A big factor in why I quit talking
to these people, is essentially
the same reason I quit going on 4chan.
Violation of norms is fun and exciting
until you realise that in abandoning
some norms, a lot of people abandon
ALL of them. Including the idea of
treating people with kindness and
compassion and empathy.
J.T. Sexkik is a video essayist on
YouTube who, despite differing
from me a lot politically and in a sense
of humour, had a very similar
experience to mine, which he talked
about in his essay
"Why I Left 4chan: A Tale of Suspense".
(Sexkik): Now, the problem with having
a bunch of people who hate themselves
all congregating en masse with no rules
should be obvious.
If you have bad self-esteem and you don't
trust your own judgement, and you have
a hard time opening up to people,
and you hang out with people who
will tell you to put your head in the 
microwave for using Windows Media Player
instead of MPC. It's probably gonna make
 you even more withdrawn and insecure.
And more generally, hanging around in
a community where that kind of thing
is the norm, is gonna influence
your personality, and make you
as an individual, a more bitter 
and judgemental person. Now, you might say
"Oh, that's not true! I'm not like that, 
it's just a website! I'm me!
I am separate from that!"
But, that's just not true.
Really, you should ask yourself:
"Would I be the same person today
if I had never found 4chan?"
It's not possible to let your brain
marinate in this piss-mist of hostility
and bad attitudes for hours and hours, 
and not have it influence you
on some level. 
It's just not possible.
(Shannon): I do think jokingly using
slurs and harbouring deep fears
about groups of people are
different things, but I also think
they're both pretty bad and harmful
and embarrassing and just different
points in the continuum of red flags
in bigoted behaviour.
They feed in to each other, and it's
one thing to disregard norms
in favour of your own personal definitions
of what is right.
I do that, and I think anyone who 
actually cares about trying to be a good
person shouldn't just mindlessly
follow their culture's norms, or the norms
of whatever subgroups they belong to.
But there's a difference between being
irreverent, and completely lacking
empathy and saying whatever you want
regardless of how it'll affect people.
Then pretending that anyone who
criticises you is a "villain set out to
destroy your free speech."
iDubbbz: I really don't like being
limited.
I'm a big fan of freedom of speech.
(Ethan): First amendment, it's #1.
(Shannon): Sexkik also made an essay
called "This Video Is Problematic:
About "Social Justice Warriors"", and I
watched it after enjoying his 4chan essay
even though the title gave me more than
a little pause.
Just using the term "SJW" is 
a pretty big red flag to me
and with a lot of stuff frothing at
the mouth about the "SJW menace",
I'm the target by virtue of being
a woman on the left, regardless
of how extreme my views actually are.
I mean, like, look at me.
But, I was really pleasantly surprised by
his essay because he takes a very
reasoned, objective approach and 
cares more about sincere analysis
than "owning feminists" or whatever.
He even takes the time to parody
the people I'm talking about.
(Sexkik): I should say before I start
that this isn't really going to be
me being like, "welcome to the anti-PC
zone bitches!"
"Checkmate atheists!"
I'm not here to lay the rhetorical 
smackdown. I'm more interested in
just figuring out what it is that
makes these people tick.
Who are they? What do they want?
Why do they want it?
and hopefully, we'll all walk away
a little bit smarter.
(Shannon): He's also a little quick
to dismiss actual issues and phenomena
marginalised people deal with and
I think his use of boobs as a joke is dumb
and demeaning. But, those are arguments
for another time and even though
I disagree on some points and methods,
I overall see where he is coming from.
In his essay, Sexkik describes the 
concept of integrative complexity. Quote:
"A measure of to what degree you're
thinking factors in alternate perspectives
and possibilities."
(Sexkik): In the context of politics,
an integratively complex thinker
sees shades of gray and acknowledges
other viewpoints and moral values,
while an integratively simple thinker
sees in black and white and dismisses
other viewpoints as stupid, evil, or illegitimate.
Now, this doesn't mean that an 
integratively complex thinker can't have
opinions. It's not like, "oh everybody's
right, let's all join hands and dance
around the maypole." It's just a
question of being able to tell the
difference between the world as it is,
and the world according to your values.
I've met people who meet these 
two criteria who, as far as I'm concerned
were not really Social Justice Warriors.
There's a key element that's missing here.
(Shannon): And he characterises "SJW's" as
"identity politics focused leftists
with low integrative complexity",
and he talks about how they use echo
chambers to exclude material they find
challenging or offensive.
(Sexkik): Because of the constantly
increasing ease with which we are
able to connect with like-minded people,
we're getting caught up in the norms
and ideas of smaller and smaller, and
more finely differentiated social clusters.
It's parochialism on a global scale.
(Shannon): My perspective on this, is that
when you're talking about hypersensitive
internet subcultures, this is not solely
a facet of the left.
Not that Sexkik says it is, but if you
Google terms like "SJW", "Snowflake",
"Safe space", whatever, you'll find
thousands of posts from edgelords
and alt-right types, who want you to
think leftists are the only people
who are hypersensitive to jokes
and criticism, but that's. not. true.
George Miller talked about how his
audience is all for the racists jokes
like, "Bring on the racist jokes! As long 
as they're not about white people..."
(Miller): A lot of the fans expect me to
take their side, and go against whatever
THEY don't like, but...
(Fantano): They don't like Feminism. So,
they want you to come on and be like:
"Fuck this Feminism shit!"
(Miller): But what they don't get about
the show is, I'm supposedly gonna
offend everybody. One time, obviously
I'm gonna get at white people.
I remember, as soon as I made a 
white-joke, something about rednecks
f--king their sisters or something.
EVERYONE lost their shit, and they
started making these really passive
aggressive comments.
They were coming back with snarky remarks
and they've never done this before,
and I was just like "wait a minute,
are you guys offended?"
(Shannon): "Holocaust jokes are great,
you know, love holocaust jokes, but
Pearl Harbor jokes? That's offensive!"
(Miller): Everyone's always making
holocaust jokes, right?
and there's nothing wrong with that -
I mean, well, there is, but like,
a holocaust joke here and there, not 
like, if other factors are involved, but
you know what I'm saying, I'm up for a
good holocaust joke if it's in...
not "good taste", but not deliberately
like, "haha! Nazis!", you know?
It's hard to explain, but you know,
people are always making holocaust jokes
at me, and then I made one Pearl Harbor
joke, and everyone lost their shit,
because I'm Japanese, I guess.
(Fantano): Well that's the thing, a lot
of people who, and not that
they're dishing it out, the thing is,
they watch your videos and they kinda
feel like, they're vicariously
dishing it out through you, you know?
and a lot of people who love to dish
that shit out, can not take it.
(Shannon): "Everyone is a target, as long
as it's not me. Either everything
is offensive or nothing is, and nothing
is offensive apart from jokes that disrupt
my world view or target- or criticise me.
I get to say whatever I want about
whoever I want, but if anything is 
remotely critical of me, it's the SJW PC
white genocide police here to take
me to language jail."
Bo Burnham, in his appearance on
WTF with Marc Maron, talks about
how he regrets a lot of his earlier
material because he saw the potential
it had to be used as a bludgeon to bully
people.
(Burnham): They kept going, I found
offensive humour and I was being
offensive and there's some things that
I'm very ashamed of.
(Maron): What was the third song?
(Burnham): One of them was something
that kind of causes me a lot of...
well, okay, it was a series of 
Hellen Keller jokes that was basically
like, "Hellen Keller is the perfect
woman." I was 16 and a half.
Basically, just made a bunch of
deaf-jokes, and it really, even now..
(Maron): Wasn't she blind?
(Burnham): Yeah, also.
There's some gags where like,
"her reading my acne" or something,
and I've lost sleep thinking about
some little deaf kid...
(Maron): Have you ever gotten any
feedback along those lines?
(Burnham): I haven't, but it has like
3- or 4 million views and the idea
that there was a deaf kid that, like,
another kid quoted my song to him
and made him feel shitty.
(Maron): Quoted to him... in sign?
(Burnham): Yeah, some sort of... or
just made fun of the kid (inaudible).
(Maron): But that's out there, that's
an interesting problem.
(Burnham): It is out there, and that 
humour is out there, and the best thing
I can do is learn from it and go forward 
now, and I was young and I still am young
but I was very young at that time, I mean
I was 16 and a half,
I had no idea really what I was doing.
(Shannon): Jonathan Demme, 
who died recently, and who directed
Silence of the Lambs, said this 
of criticism of the film, and I know,
criticism of the film, especially more
recent criticism, covers more than
his portrayal of gay men, but I feel like
his heart is in the right place, so:
"When the film was accused of continuing
a history of stereotypical negative
portrayals of gay characters, that was
a wake-up call for me as a filmmaker,
and as a person. My gay friends who loved
Silence of the Lambs, including my friend
Juan Botas, who was one of the 
inspirations for Philadelphia, said,
"You can't imagine what it's like to
be a 12-year-old gay kid, and you go
to the movies all the time and whenever
you see a gay character, they're
either a ridiculous comic-relief
caricature, or a demented killer.
It's very hard growing up gay and
being exposed to all these stereotypes."
That registered with me in a big way.
That year, we got a number of awards
from the New York Film Critics Circle,
and at a certain point in the awards
ceremony, a dozen young people came
into the room with fliers and put them
on all the tables and they said,
"Stop negative portrayals of gays on film."
I thought, "This is such a bonus." Because
the film is this big success, and it's
now become a part of the dialogue on
stereotypical portrayals of gays in movies."
The McElroys...
Griffin McElroy: Where is all the Pipis!?
Aaah, yeaaah!
(Shannon): ...are also really good
about taking the potential harm of their
jokes in to consideration, and learning
and growing with their fanbase.
In a recent TV Insider-interview, they said:
"You f--k up a whole lot when you
start doing a podcast,
and you hear from people who
really, really, really like you,
who let you know very politely
that you hurt their feeling and
ostracised them, and then you stop
doing it. And then after enough of those,
you kind of stop doing it to everybody,
or you try your f--king best to.
Literally, that's it. I think it's
easy to get defensive, but I just always
felt so miserable when I heard, "I'm a big
fan of yours and you hurt my feelings."
When someone tells you,"Hey, what you just
did hurt me," you have two options.
One is to say like, "You're wrong,
and I didn't do anything wrong."
Or your other option is to say, "Okay,
well if you feel that way, let me take
a step back and really look at what I 
did." Do that second one every time.
I think doing anything that has a big
enough audience these days becomes
a lesson in empathy. The show
and me, Griffin, as a person, have gotten
so much better since those lessons have
come pouring in. I like having that
relationship with our audience, and
I genuinely think it's funnier to not
not say no to s--t, or not slam people
instead of getting on board with them.
I think that's the funnier thing 100%
of the time.
It's harder, but it's always
funnier."
Like it or not, this lesson in empathy,
is a responsibility anyone,
especially anyone with a large teenage 
fan base that they make a living off of,
has, and should be aware of.
Much of Miller's and iDubbbz' content
has the same potential
Burnham was worried about.
iDubbbz has repeatedly said that...
iDubbbz: It's either all okay, or
none of it's okay."
(Shannon): ...and Miller has taken a very
"let's offend everyone"-approach
in his work as well.
I feel like this is a stance taken by
a lot of people.
But it's a cop-out that absolves them
of any responsibility and shills
them from any form of introspection
or analysis of who they
could be hurting with they're doing.
It's not difficult to offend people, and
it doesn't make you brave or better
than people who are trying to navigate
media and comedy with empathy
rather than using a shotgun spread
on any targets that pop up.
You can't pretend that these guys,
and guys like them, don't have a huge
impact on internet culture, and that
internet culture doesn't shape
the views and behaviour of 
millions of kids.
Ethan: I love that I can just say
"n----rfaggot", though!
(Shannon): Kids kill themselves in real
life because of homophobic bullying,
and this kind of stuff and the way it
acclimates kids to slurs and drains
their empathy doesn't help.
*(Pink Guy): ♪ Kill yourself ♪
♪ Please, please kill yourself ♪
♪ You should kill yourself. ♪ (Repeating)
(Shannon): I've never told anyone to
kill themselves or anything like that, but
I did use that jokey slur kind of 
language on message boards
as a teenager with my friends.
I didn't jokingly stop saying "faggot",
and "retarded" online because
I was scared of the repercussions.
I stopped because I realised
it was hurting people and had the capacity
to hurt more people.
Again, people kill themselves because
of feeling alienated and it's
a facet of a larger culture that
discriminates against,
and is violent towards, people
who are different.
I am not a perfect person or a better
person than someone else for my
language choices, like I'm not trying
to high-horse here.
I just know that I used to talk
like that and stopped talking like that
or rationalising it as "just a joke"
because I had no interest in
contributing to anything that made people
feel like they're not welcome in the world.
I have NO interest in being a bully.
And when you punch down, even if
you think you aren't hurting anyone, and
you don't actually believe what
you're saying, or "it's just a joke", or
you're playing a character or whatever.
You are being a bully!
If you want to keep doing it, then
you're obviously allowed to,
like whatever, but you need to
at least come to terms with how you're
contributing to a massive empathy-void.
And, how what you're doing could
have legitimate consequences,
for making the culture at large more
exclusionary to tangible negative
effects on someone's life.
I think the Rick & Morty-angle on this 
is pretty stupid, and it's one of the few
moments on this show where I was like
"come on, guys..."
I do agree with comedian Stewart Lee's
take on political correctness though,
and I think it's a really brilliant
summation, and one that aligns perfectly
with my own views.
Stewart Lee: Now, one hesitates
in the current climate to make a joke
on stage about the Muslims, right?
Not for fear of religious reprisals, 
right? When's that ever hurt anyone?
(Audience laughs)
But because of a slightly more
slippery anxiety which is basically,
when you do stand-up in a small
room, it's like "we're all friends
hooray" and we can make a joke, but you
don't really know how a joke's received
in that it could be that it's laughed
at enthusiastically in a way that you
don't understand, and particularly
out there, and if you don't know
who's watching, on television, I mean
if it's on telly, on Paramount...
Probably someone horrible, an idiot.
The problem is, 84% of people,
apparently, of the public
think that political correctness has
gone mad, now, I don't know if it has.
People still get killed, don't they?
for being the wrong colour,
or the wrong sexuality or whatever,
and what is political correctness?
It's an often clumsy negotiation
towards a formally inclusive language
and there's all sorts of problems with it
but it's better than what we had before.
But 84% of people think political
corectness has gone mad, and you
don't want one of those people
coming up to you after the gig and going,
"Well done, mate. Well done, actually
for having a go at the f---ing muslims!"
(Audience laughs)
Well done, mate! You know, you can't
do anything in this country anymore,
It's political correctness gone mad,
you know, you can't even write racial
abuse in excrement on someone's car...
without the politically correct brigade
jumping down your throat."
You don't want those people coming
up to you after gigs, cause that's
Al Murray, The Pub Landlord's audience.
Missing the point, and laughing through
bared teeth, like the dogs they are.
(Shannon): Rogert Ebert said of film, that
"We are all born with a certain package.
We are who we are, where we were born,
who we were born as, how we were raised.
We're kind of stuck inside that person,
and the purpose of civilisation and growth
is to be able to reach out and empathise
a little bit with other people, and
for me, the movies are like a machine
that generates empathy.
It lets you understand a little bit more
about different hopes, aspirations, dreams
and fears. It helps us to identify with
the people who are sharing
this journey with us."
To me, one of the highest functions
of art is for it to help people
feel less alienated. I get critique, 
and satire and attacking power structures,
but when you're talking about throwing
around slurs and deliberately offending
and hurting everyone, including
people who are having a pretty rough time,
why would you want to knowingly put
something out there that makes downtrodden
people more alienated and unwelcome,
instead of less.
I am in no way advocating for the total
removal of certain topics from criticism
or from discussion, like, people who
say you can never joke about certain
topics, are wrong. Maybe you feel good
saying nobody should ever joke about
rape, but in saying that, you're cutting
off people from talking about their
own experiences of sexual assault, or
fears of being sexually assaulted,
and others, from criticising rape culture.
I've been in rooms where a comic
made a joke about the death of a parent
and I'm the only one really laughing,
and my dad is, like, super dead.
I enjoy dark humour, because I've been
through a lot of dark experiences, and
those jokes resonate with me. A lot of how
how I dealt with the horrible trauma
of my father's death, was through
morbid humour.
People can be weird, and precious
about certain topics they feel
are taboo, even when the way those
topics are being handled in that moment
is progressive, and constructive,
and intelligent, and I find that
really annoying. But if you're confident
in your beliefs, then you're not going
to be too afraid to laugh at something
out of fear of offending others.
But at the same time, criticism of
a joke, or not laughing at a joke is not
censorship. Someone holding a mic
or uploading a video doesn't mean
they're above criticism, and jokes that
punch down and target marginalised
groups, are harmful and alienating.
Progressives, who blanketly condemn
all jokes involving rape, are, to me
wrong. But I get why they have the 
urge to do it.
Since rape jokes that are like 
"hah! that slut had it coming!" make
rapists more comfortable, and that 
describes the majority of rape jokes I've
heard. If your humour makes people who 
hate certain groups, or people who rape,
more comfortable, like, if you're
affirming their beliefs with your jokes,
then, maybe you should be rethinking
your jokes, and not consider
people who call you an "unfunny bully"
an "affront to free speech".
Because if you actually listen instead
of being defensive, you can learn
and grow and improve. I'm not even saying
you have to agree with people and do
exactly what they say, I just want you to
have more empathy and to take critique
in to consideration instead of 
dismissing it.
I think people who get really deep into
media as identity, and I mean
people on both the far-right, and
the far-left, take a low integrative
complexity, all-or-nothing approach.
As if being able to enjoy something and
still criticise it is either capitulating
to and endorsing bigots, or a sign
of SJW sensitivity and weakness.
Though, honestly, the people who
get freaked out about SJW's remind
me of people who scream about
white genocide in response to
Cheerios commercials.
I've experienced Tumblr, and I've
experienced 4chan, and lots of people
on the internet are hyper-sensitive
weirdos who throw tantrums and
dox people they don't agree with, but
when you get down to it,
and you leave the realm of the extreme
fringe, I vastly prefer to side
with the group that is overall, however 
clumsily, calling for more empathy,
not less. And, there's a balance with
problematic media the same way
that there's a balance with problematic
artists.
I'm not super big on "gotcha/call-out
posts about artists, generally,"
unless it's for something really
heinous, like allegedly pulling your
dick out and cornering women, or raping
someone, or generally for being a
fundamentally abusive or harmful person.
If you operate on the call-out wavelength,
and you read posts I made when I was
a dumb teen, where I jokingly call
my friends gay, or whatever,
you'd probably think I was a bad 
person, too.
It does not allow for growth. But then
you have people on the other end
who'll excuse any kind of behaviour
and complain about call-out culture
when people have legitimate criticisms.
It's important to be able to
criticise art, or artists, so that art
can grow, and so that people
can grow, or so that if someone
is a legitimately terrible and abusive
person, that they will no longer have
the power to abuse.
I don't care about convoluted personal
drama or the mildly "un-woke" stuff
someone might have said when they
were a teenager, but I also don't care
how long ago it was that Polanski
raped a girl, and it's disgusting
that he still has a career. He is
a tremendous artist, and I think
his films are incredible, but that doesn't
make him above criticism, or
deserving of my ticket money.
Ultimately, you're not obligated to feel
a certain way while watching a piece
of art, and to me there's a difference
between consuming art
with a critical mind with regard to what
you're taking in and supporting,
vs. mindlessly supporting and enabling
an abuser, or a piece of art that
will have a net negative impact.
You just have to leave room for nuance,
and for productive conversation,
and for fixing missing stairs. Which,
as someone who has gotten caught
and hurt by missing stairs in the past,
is really, really important.
In consumption and support is
responsibility, and you're deluding
yourself when you say "it's just a joke"
or "it's just a TV-show" because
jokes and shows demonstrably
shape how we think and feel.
Whether it's with your viewership or
your vocal support, or your money,
when you watch, or pay for, or spread
something, that's an endorsement
of that material. If you keep buying
tickets to see movies that are bigoted,
or that were made by abusive people,
Hollywood's gonna keep making bigoted
movies, and giving abusive people
jobs. It's only by calling out
and expressing distaste for 
bigoted material, that we can enact
any kind of change on that material.
So criticism is healthy and should
be welcomed, and you don't need
to flip out about the "PC-police"
when someone's like "wow, that's
kinda racist." You can pretend all day
if you want, that media and identity
politics and representation don't matter
and that there are more important
things in the world to worry about, as if
caring about one thing and caring
about another thing are somehow 
mutually exclusive.
But that's disingenuous, and it ignores
how big a role art plays in our lives
and in our culture. Barring straight-up
hate speech, you also have the right
to say what you want and watch
what you want, and while I might
criticise it, I'm not gonna waste my
finite time on earth policing what you do
or hypocritically insisting you only
consume the "wokest" media.
You just need to be aware of whether
what you're doing day-to-day, is enabling
or supporting abusers, or enabling
or supporting rhetoric that hurts
people. And really consider who
or what you want to support with
your time and with your money.
You also need to be aware of
who you're giving influence over your
heart and your brain to.
That awareness and it at least
being a factor in your behaviour
and in your media consumption, is more
important than what shows you like.
If you enjoyed this, please consider
donating to my Patreon so I can
keep making video essays like this one.
Links to everything I referenced are
in the description.
Thanks to the friends who helped me out
with this essay and thanks for watching!
Charlie: ♪ There's a spider... spider...
spider... ♪ 
 ♪ It's deep in my soul... soul... ♪ 
♪ He's lived here for years... years... ♪
♪ He just won't let go... ♪
♪ He's laying around, 
he's got a mean bite ♪
♪ Now he's ready to fiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight ♪
♪ And stand up for what he 
looooooooooooooooves ♪
♪ I don't need your trophies 
or your gold ♪
♪ I just wanna tell you all,
go f--k yourseeeeeeeeeelves ♪ 
♪ (Falsetto screaming) ♪
♪ Go f--k yourseeeeeeeeelves! ♪
- Mac: Is he spitting?
- Dee: He's spitting.
Dennis: He's spitting at them!
- Mac: Is that the sign?
- Dee: That's the sign.
(Fighting and spitting noises)
♪ (Inaudible singing) ♪
Subtitles by the Amara.org community
