SOLEDAD: IT'S BEEN MORE THAN
SIXTY YEARS SINCE BROWN V.
EDUCATION, THE LANDMARK SUPRE 
COURT DECISION DECLARING
SEPARATE PUBLIC SCHOOLS FOR 
BLACKS AND WHITES 
UNCONSTITUTIONAL. 
RECENT STUDIES SHOW SCHOOL
SEGREGATION HAS GOTTEN WORSE, 
NOT BETTER. 
IN SOME DISTRICTS, SEGREGATN
IS WORSE THAN IT WAS IN THE 
1970'S WHEN COURT ORDERED 
BUSSING WAS NEEDED TO INTEGRE 
SCHOOL
THIS IS NO SURPRISE TO NIKOLE 
HANNAH-JONES, AN INVESTIGATI
REPORTER FOR THE NEW YORK TIS 
MAGAZINE, WHO HAS SPENT MUC 
HER CAREER PUTTING A SPOTLIT
ON SCHOOL SEGREGATION, WHICH
SHE CALLS "INTENTIONAL."
SHE'S ALSO A MAC ARTHUR 
"GENIUS" AWARD WINNER AND WE
RECENTLY SPOKE ABOUT PERSISTE 
RACIAL SEGREGATION IN AMERIN
SCHOOLS.
SOLEDAD: HEY, GENIUS, NICE TO 
HAVE YOU. DO PEOPLE CALL Y
THAT ALL THE TIME?
>> NOT ENOUGH.
SOLEDAD: REALLY?
(LAUGHTE
I AM HAPPY TO CALL YOU GENIU
KE
WHY ARE AMERICAN SCHOOLSO 
SEGREGATED? 
>> I MEAN THE SIMPLE ANSWER 
AMERICAN SCHOOLS ARE SEGREGAD 
BECAUSE THEY WERE CREATED TOE 
SEGREGATED FROM THE FOUNDINGF 
PUBLIC SCHOOLS IN THIS COUNT
AND BECAUSE LARGE NUMBERS OF
WHITE AMERICANS CHOOSE IT TO. 
SO IF YOU LOOK AT DATA FROM 
U.S. DEPARTMENT OF EDUCATION, 
YOU CAN PREDICT THE RESOURC 
SCHOOL RECEIVES, AND I AM 
TALKING ABOUT THE QUALITY OF
THE TEACHERS, THE QUALITY OF
INSTRUCTION, WHETHER OR NOT 
THOSE SCHOOLS HAVE ADVANCED 
MATH AND SCIENCE CLASSES, 
WHETHER THEY HAVE HONORS
CLASSES, WHETHER THEY HAVE
DECENT FACILITIES, ALL OF THE 
CAN BE PREDICTED BY THE COLOR 
OF THE SKIN OF THE STUDENTS
THOSE BUILDINGS.
AS LONG AS WE CONTINUE TO HA
 
IN THIS COUNTRY, BLACK CHILDN 
HAVE TO BE WHERE WHITE CHIN 
ARE TO GET THE THINGS THAT
WHITE CHILDREN GET. 
SOLEDAD: BUSSING CHILDRE
USUALLY BLACK CHILDREN, INTO  
WHITE SCHOOLS.
HAVE THOSE EXPERIMENTS BEEN 
SUCCESSFUL? 
IS IT FAIR TO CALL THEM 
 
>> WHERE THERE WAS BUSSING T
SUCCESSFUL. 
I THINK THE  
THAT IS MECKLENBURG COUNTY
WHICH SERVES THE CITY OF
THE SUPREME COURT ORDERED THE 
BUSSING OF WHITE STUDENTS IN
BLACK SCHOOLS AND BLACK 
STUDENTS INTO WHITE SCHOOLS,
AND IT WAS AN INTEGRATED CITY 
FOR MANY YEARS UNTIL THAT C 
ORDER WAS CLOSED OUT. 
SOLEDAD: AND THEN IT SHIFTED
PRETTY QUICKLY. 
>> AND NOW IT HAS GONE BACK D 
THERE IS A GREAT DEAL OF
SEGREGATION.
IT IS ONE OF THE MOST 
SE
THE COUNTRY NOW.
SOLEDAD: WHAT ARE THE LONG-TM 
IMPACTS OF SEGREGATION? 
 
OF DATA OF WHAT HAPPENS TO KS 
WHO GO TO SEGREGATED SCHOO
VERSUS KIDS IN DESEGREGATED 
INTEGRATED SCHOOLS. 
>> ABSOLUTELY.
SO WHAT LONG TERM DATA SHOWSS 
THAT SEGREGATION HARMS THE
ENTIRE LIVES OF BLACK CHILDR. 
THAT BLACK CHILDREN THAT GOT
ACCESS TO DESEGREGATED SCHOO
WHEN THEY BECAME ADULTS WERE
LESS LIKELY TO BE POOR, THEY
WERE MORE LIKELY TO GO TO 
COLLEGE, THEY WERE MORE LIKE
TO BE EMPLOYED, LESS LIKELY T
HAVE HEALTH PROBLEMS, THEY LE 
LONGER, THEY WERE MORE LIKELY 
TO LIVE IN INTEGRATED SETTIN
THEMSELVES AND MOST IMPORTANY 
THEY PASSED THAT ONTO THEIR 
CHILDREN. 
SO INTEGRATION ACTUALLY CHAND 
THE ENTIRE TRAJECTORY OF BLA
FAMILIES AND THE OPPOSITE 
EFFECT HAPPENED TO BLACK
CHILDREN WHO WERE STUCK IN
SEGREGATED SCHOOLS 
MY DAUGHTER IS NOT WHITE
OBVIOUSLY BUT WE ENROLLED HER 
IN A SEGREGATED, HIGH POVERTY 
SCHOOL, AND I THINK THE MOST
IMPORTANT THING SHE HAS GOTT
OUT OF THAT IS BECAUSE THE
OTHER CHILDREN HAVE LESS THAN 
HER DOESN'T MEAN THAT THEY E
LESS THAN HER.
SOLEDAD: BUT SHE IS -- YOU
COULD HAVE CHOSEN A 
DESEGREGATED SCHOOL,
CORI
ABOUT DESEGREGATION.
>> WE LIVE IN A POOR BLACK
NEIGHBORHOOD. 
SO WE MADE THE DECISION TO
ENROLL OUR DAUGHTER IN THAT 
SCHOOL. 
I THINK THAT IS WHAT IS 
IMPORTANT FOR MIDDLE CLASS
PARENTS TO UNDERSTAND IS
ANYTHING THAT MY DAUGHTER WOD 
BE LACKING IN A SEGREGATED
SCHOOL, 
I COULD MAKE UP 
FOR THOSE OTHER PARENTS, FOR
LOW INCOME PARENTS, SCHOOL IS 
THE ONLY ADVANTAGE THEY MAY 
EVER BE ABLE TO GIVE THEIR
CHILD AND WE ARE DEPRIVING
THEIR CHILD OF THAT ONE THI.
SOLEDAD: SO WHAT IS THE 
SOLUTION? 
>> WE COULD ZONE IN A WAY AT
INTEGRATES SCHOOLS VERY EASI. 
THAT IS PROBABLY BIGGEST TOOL 
THAT ANY COMMUNITY HAS IS HOW 
WE ZONE WHICH NEIGHBORHOOD
WHICH SCHOOLS.
WE COULD ACTUALLY HAVE SOME 
TYPE OF INCENTIVE FOR 
DESEGREGATION WHICH WE DON
HAVE. 
EVEN YOUR MOST LIBERAL
POLITICIANS WON'T TAKE TOUCH
THE ISSUE.
NO ONE WANTS T
IT. 
SOLEDAD: WE ACT AS IF THE 
PROMISE OF EDUCATION IS EQUA
RIGHT?
IF YOU GO TO AN AMERICAN PUBC 
SCHOOL, YOU SHOULD BE GETTING 
ROUGHLY THE SAME EDUCATION AS 
SOMEONE ELSE WHO WENT TO A.
 
>> WE DON'T EVEN OFFER THA 
WITHIN THE SAME SYSTEM A MILE 
AWAY FROM EACH OTHER. 
I THINK TO ME THAT IS IMMOR.
I THINK WE SHOULD NOT ACCEPT
THAT BUT WE DO. 
