Good evening. I think we'll get started since it looks like everyone's here and seated ready to go.
My name is Nicole Watson and I am the
director of The Catherine G. Murphy Gallery.
We're going to begin tonight by being mindful that we are gathered on land that is sacred to the Dakota people,
who have lived here for centuries and continue to live here?
Thank you for joining us for this evenings curators talk.
I'm very pleased to introduce you to Heather Carroll
who put together our current show Roots and Fruits: Exploring the History and Impact of the Woman's Art Registry of Minnesota.
During tonight's talk Heather will discuss her methodologies and approach to organizing this historic exhibition
which combines period artworks and archival materials to trace pivotal events in the early history of the registry known as WARM and
explore some of the ways its members catalyze local art movements, programs and artists.
Before I turn things over to Heather, I thought I'd take a few moments to tell you a little bit about her.
She is a recent alumna of St. Kate's. She graduated last May with a Master's in Library and Information Science.
She also received a museum studies certificate from the University of St. Thomas in 2018,
and she has a BFA in studio art from the Minneapolis College of Art and Design.
In addition to serving as a graduate assistant for the St.
Catherine University Fine Art Collection, Heather has received archival experience at the Weisman Art Museum, the Hennepin County Library,
the American Craft Council and the Society of American Archivists' student chapter.
She implemented and led the WARM journal
digitization project work that certainly played a role in
igniting her desire to investigate the origins of the collective and consider its influences today.
Heather is a tireless and patient researcher.
She has boundless curiosity and she keeps a constant keen eye toward drawing meaningful connections between art history and society.
Now she's also a subject matter expert of WARM. Please join me in welcoming Heather Carroll.
Good evening everyone and thank you for coming tonight.
I'm Heather and I'm the curator of
Roots and Fruits: Exploring the History and Impact of the Women's Art Registry of Minnesota. First, I'd like to thank Nicole Watson,
Kimberlee Roth, Dr. Jayme Yahr, Ann Buchan, Jennifer Adam, and the Art and Art History student workers for their help with this project.
- Heather could you speak up a little bit please?-
Oh. I'll try is this better? No it does this,... not help
Okay
Back row I'm gonna talk to you. Alright?
Alright, so I thought I'd start with a nutshell story about myself and my circuitous route to be here giving a curators talk
tonight for this exhibition.
I was born in Minneapolis and I grew up in Lauderdale that little square mile town where Hennepin Avenue turns into Larpenter Avenue.
My father is a Vietnam vet who left our family when I was 8. My
two brothers and I were raised by my tenacious and extraordinarily resourceful mother. I went to school in Roseville
where at the time music theater and visual arts were a priority.
This is really good because the very first thing I ever wanted to be was an artist.
I went to Minneapolis College of Art and Design, where WARM member Elizabeth Erickson was my advisor, teacher and mentor.
As I recall it. She was the only one to say to me. "Yes", and "I see."
Where others would say "You should." or "You need to."
That was very formative for me.
I graduated in 1997, but I couldn't really afford to actually be a full-time artist,
so for a couple of years after graduating,
I worked in academic services department at MCAD where I installed exhibitions, ran the off-campus exhibition program and
taught students to do the same.
In 1999, I was the TA for the first Women's Art Institute and around the same time
I received a career opportunity grant from the Minnesota State Arts Board
to be a visiting artist at the Burren College of Art in Ballyvaughan, Ireland.
Yeah, right...
Um, I thought I might travel the world bouncing between visiting artists gigs,
but even with the grant and trading work for a room to stay in I came back
from that first attempt in more debt than I left with.
So I then found what felt like an art related job, and I worked for Blue Dot Design and manufacturing for over a decade,
mostly in sales and service.
It was an exciting time of massive growth for the company and I was exposed to the inner workings at the intersection of multiple
industries, such as design, architecture, manufacturing, business and entrepreneurship.
Most of which were and still are
male-dominated industries.
It was during that time that I channeled my mother's resourcefulness and
realized that I loved
spreadsheets and organizing. That I loved to make information accessible and learn to create systems and processes.
But eventually I burnt out. So
around a decade ago, as my husband and I were starting a family, and I was seeking a more flexible and satisfying career, I
read a very business-y, oops,
That's better.
I read a very business-y book about strengths recommended by my business-y the older brother who said that it had changed his life.
I learned that it was more effective to fully
utilize your strengths than to bang your head against the wall trying to incrementally improve upon your weaknesses.
They were in much simpler, zen-like terms, just be your true authentic self.
Stepping back to look at myself like this and my habits afforded me some distance and the ability to sidestep some of my previous
personal roadblocks.
But that,
that, is a whole other discussion for another time. And so to keep it short here's what happened next.
A job posting came up at Mia that I really really wanted, but I really, really wasn't qualified for and
a serendipitous library salon event at the American Craft Council on the topic of using
libraries as incubators for creativity, led me to the Masters of Library and Information science program here at St. Kate's.
Circuitous, right? Yeah.
I knew my path and the MLIS program
would not be a typical one, because I wanted to focus on objects and art, rather than traditional public
library services and I happily ended up in the archives and Special Collections track.
My goal became to spend my nine-to-five career being the person who actually gets to touch all the things, right,
and behind the scenes and then making these things accessible to people, all the people, not just the scholars.
And this atypical interest led me to two things.
First a project to digitize the WARM journals and second a graduate assistantship with St.
Kate's Fine Art Collection where I started by cataloguing and digitizing artworks and investigating provenance.
While working with the WARM journals, I kept coming across names of WARM artists whose artwork are in St. Kate's collection and
WARM artists who were St. Kate's alumni.
In both the journal and the art collection
I came across so many names of WARM artists and other women artists who were educators, administrators
and activists across the state and nationally.
I started to draw connections across time and in tern to see my own relationship to this local and national history.
Again trying to keep this short and to sum up what I was finding, the national feminist art movement of the 1970s and 80s is
directly connected to Minnesota through the activities and members of WARM.
This local history is like a web of connections that I, and probably many of you too, keep bumping into.
Whether I knew to look for that web or not, It was always there. As these interconnections became apparent,
I also realized that Minnesota's feminist art movement is largely undocumented.
This was shocking to me and I still can't believe that no one else has attempted this already.
And I knew that I needed to find a way to share this and an art exhibition felt the most appropriate way to start.
The ideas for this exhibition were percolating the whole time that I was working with St.
Kate's fine art collection and I submitted the exhibition proposal just weeks
after the last presidential election, I'm sorry, inauguration.
I was at the Women's March in Saint Paul that day after the inauguration.
It was amazing to be a drop in the pink ocean that day,
but I struggled afterward with how I could continue to contribute.
I'm not a politician and I'm not able to be a philanthropist.
And there are a million ways to be an activist but I find social media is really a drag.
What I tend to find most inspiring and activating are stories. Inspiring stories of real people
represented by the art and the objects they create. You probably get where I'm going with this.
But it dawned on me that I could use art to share history.
Perhaps even to inspire others toward action and connection.
There continues to be a sense of urgency in this project. A little voice whispering, and I won't whisper,
"You have to do this before it's gone,
before we can't get to it anymore. Go, go get it!"
Art made by women has historically been and continues to be underrepresented in the art world and online.
The Women's Art Registry of Minnesota or WARM, began in 1973 is a collective of artists to combat this inequity,
as well as provide a supportive and productive environment for women artists in Minnesota.
WARM began as a non-hierarchical
artists collective and slide registry but grew to include a gallery, a self-published journal, a visiting lecture series, a mentor program, a
national conference and more.
WARM continues to support women artists today as the Women Art Resources of Minnesota.
My first introduction to the history of WARM was this exhibition catalogue by Johanna Inglot.
The brief history of the collective that is included in this book was a springboard into a hundred new questions for me.
That being said,
That being said, most of my questions at the time fell into two main categories.
First how did WARM begin and
next what affect did WARM have? To answer the first question, I hit the local archives, like all of them.
I felt in order to tackle how WARM began I had to have a firm grasp of
what happened when and who was involved. I started with the Minnesota Historical
Society's archives where the official records of WARM are housed and then branched out to the University of Minnesota and Weisman
Art Museum archives and the archives at St. Catherine University and Minneapolis College of Art and Design.
At the Minnesota Historical Society alone
there are over 18 banker sized boxes of documents and materials in the WARM records.
If you figure 30 folders per box and 20 documents per folder, that's almost
11,000 documents to sift through
Daunting.
To keep the process efficient. I really had to use my librarians skills.
First I primarily focused on items dated between 1973 and 1976 which brought the number of boxes down to five.
Next, I kept my time in the archives to one to two hour stints where I skimmed the documents, only skimmed. My last efficiency tactic,
when I found a promising item, I would capture it with a smartphone scanner app. Then later as my schedule permitted,
I would organize the scans pour over the materials and tease out relevant names, dates, events, and statistics and anything else.
However much of the earliest information was not in the archival records.
For this I interviewed and corresponded with Susan Fiene, Lynn Lockiy and Diane McLeod,
who were among the earliest members and were very gracious in sharing their stories and with recollections?
Many of the details they shared sent me on new and productive research paths.
Again, I used those librarian skills to curate the masses of information into about eight historical moments, each one of which
significantly contributed to WARMs trajectory.
One of the best sources of information about the earliest years turned out to be the handwritten
meeting minutes.
They're actually over here on the side
And I lost my spot, Oh for WARMS,
turned out to be the handwritten meeting minutes from WARMs almost weekly gatherings between 1975 and 1976.
The frequency of meetings made it fairly straightforward to track the progression of projects and ideas.
But at other times it was like finding a needle in a haystack.
Because the collective was non-hierarchical,
committees changed members frequently.
This helped avoid hierarchy and helped offer as much experience to all the members as possible.
But it sure did make it a lot harder for me to track the contributions of individuals and
in the process, I also realized that that was probably exactly the collective's point.
It's a we, not I me.
This timeline of eight moments
looks simple and straightforward,
but in reality it is a complex topic
dealing with politics and lots of personalities at a charged time in history.
From my research. I learned that, I learned of many tensions but one that I found particularly paralyzing
had to do with the curatorial decisions in a previous exhibition having to do with how WARM as a large non hierarchical
organization was represented to the public through the work of a few artists.
And I knew that I would have to approach this exhibition
differently, and very thoughtfully, and from the perspective of those being represented.
It was always my intention to work directly with the artists to gather works for the show.
But as a fallback, I also spent a significant amount of time
attempting to locate WARM artists works in local museums and collections and this gave me the security to know that no matter how things
might shake out, I could put together an exhibition about WARM.
For the physical exhibition those two main research questions became
two distinct parts of one exhibition. The Roots of WARM and the Fruits of WARM.
This works out particularly well because The Catherine G. Murphy Gallery has two gallery spaces separated by a reception area.
The two lines of questioning and two spaces
to reflect the different curatorial process for each question.
The Roots gallery focuses on the beginning points of different stages in WARMs early trajectory,
I'm sorry, in WARMs early history and the women involved in those beginnings.
This portion of the exhibition is laid out like a timeline using both period artwork and archival materials to represent the moments that
punctuated WARMs early history.
While today, and especially with art, less linear display methods tend to be favored,
I feel that in this situation the timeline provides simple access points and an overall visual rhythm to the gallery.
Each point in the timeline begins with an archival poster and a didactic panel, or
four.
Followed by artworks related to the timeline event by the artists who were involved. And when those actual works may not have been available
We worked to find art from the same time period by the same artists involved.
These formal constraints
significantly aided in narrowing the focus and the possible items that would be on display. This method also to a
pretty great degree curbs the curator's power by removing most of the preferential choices of the process, and
employs a non hierarchical method more reflective of the collective itself.
It was important to me to use archival materials in the historic exhibition for a few reasons.
First I love the objects and the stories that they tell without needing much further explanation.
A lot of archival materials are common and very relatable.
Most of us can relate to signing our name on a list, using a notebook, taking a photograph and even perhaps writing a letter.
Most of us here written a letter, right?
Archival materials. Oh, um...
And these are the bits and pieces of WARMs history that we physically know in our own lives.
Archival materials are also a time capsule. In the case of slide transparencies
many of the visitors to this exhibition won't know what a slide is?
And yet,
slides were an integral part of artists careers
for the latter half of the 20th century and they were the basis of WARMs registry in the beginning.
So it was really important to have an interactive element with slides to meaningfully provide that context to the audience.
All of these archival objects lend both authenticity and authority to the timeline events and to the overall story.
The key challenges in the Roots part of the exhibition were in setting the parameters that narrow the scope without diminishing the story,
providing logical access points to the audience and respecting and representing the non hierarchical structure and inclusivity of WARM as an
organization.
Fruits the Fruits side traces WARMs threads of influence.
WARM members went on to begin new arts organizations, to teach, and to spread the
the power of art and art making to even broader audiences.
Some of those influenced by WARM members are in tern sharing the spirit of community, equality and inclusion through art and art making.
Conceptually the threads all needed to cover different realms of influence.
What is probably less apparent in this side of the exhibition is that each thread had some sort of personal connection for me.
Wetpaint was a favorite art store long before I knew its connection to WARM member Beth Bergman.
Carole Fisher was a faculty member at MCAD when I was a student.
I was a part of the first Women's Art Institute and I knew Monica Rudquist as faculty
here at St. Kate's before I knew that she was also a member of the WARM gallery and
was also Phyllis Weiner's mentee.
These threads are like evidence hung on the wall of my personal revelations about the impact of WARM.
Evidence that I am continually bumping into WARM and it's influences.
So cosmic nudge taken.
Curatorially, the fruit side,
the artists included in the fruit side could choose their own work within very loose parameters
mostly constrained only by space. And in some cases artists at the beginning or the middle of a thread,
actually most cases,
artists at the beginning or middle of a thread were asked to nominate an artist for the end point of the thread.
Someone they had worked with in some capacity who embodied what they considered to be a contemporary spirit of WARM.
So as a curator, I laid out the structure and communicated the idea, but it was the artists who chose how to represent themselves.
While these threads do have a personal connection for me,
I also knew that there would be, quite literally, hundreds of other stories out there that were just as significant,
relevant and important.
I knew I wanted to find a way to include as many WARM artists and stories as possible. And this became
the digital slideshow in the Fruit side.
This is just a wonderful picture.
I credit this idea to Joyce Lyon, who was part of producing a very similar slideshow for WARM gallery members
that was in conjunction with the 2013 exhibition titled The House We Built.
The slideshow for The House We Built was one of those wonderfully serendipitous moments in research and
holy indicative of the generosity of the women of WARM.
After a panel discussion about the arts core program last year here at St.
Kate's, Joyce gave the DVD containing the slideshow to Nicole Watson to give to me.
There are more than 600
slides in that presentation and so many images, biographies and stories.
In my first viewing I soaked it all in trying to read every bit.
Two hours in I was slowing down when I came to the paintings of Patricia Neer. I
Stopped at this painting
titled "Suspended Figure after Tintoretto".
Tears welled up in me.
This woman,
This woman,
animate but bound and blind struggling against something she can't see or understand
enough to escape from, she can only feel it, and without the bindings that confine her she will fall.
Maybe a little, maybe a lot, and toward what, we don't know.
I recognized that,
and I felt that at some point or maybe many points, I have metaphorically been that woman.
I felt that I was only just starting to understand the constructs around us that constrain women, historically and contemporarily.
I recognize this as a larger motif in women's artwork. I had come across it in the WARM journals.
In the work of Harmony Hammond, who exhibited at the WARM gallery in 1980.
In the work of contemporary local artists like Sarah Kusa who is a Women's Art Institute
alumni and currently a Jerome Emerging Artist Fellow, and in Marjorie
Fedyszyn, and I'm sorry, I butchered that pronunciation probably, whose work is currently on display at the Hopkins Center For Art.
Patricia Neer's painting was the first artwork I envisioned to be in the Roots & Fruits
Exhibition, and with further research it turned out that this painting was actually a part of WARMs Galleries very first exhibition and
it exactly fit within the parameters that I was laying out.
Serendipity!
This painting inspired the idea for the salon layout and it became a visual anchor for that wall,
which represents WARM Galleries inaugural exhibition in 1976.
This painting in a sense became my mascot through the planning and curation of Roots & Fruits.
A visual reminder of that little voice whispering "go,
go get it, keep going."
And I will keep going. This exhibition is a beginning.
There are digital exhibitions to be made, a digital exhibition catalog to put together,
hopefully an oral history project and eventually a more complete history in book form.
This is just another beginning point.
Thank you for coming tonight.
(clapping)
Does anyone have an questions for Heather?
I have one. Where were all these archival materials? You did not take them from MHS?
We did actually loan them from MHS
yes, so about
I'd say probably 25 to 30% of the ones in, in the display case are actually
from MHS.
Pat Olson gave me a lot of posters. Oh my god,
the posters are amazing. I couldn't show all of them
Marty Nash gave me five boxes of
things so a lot of what's in there is from Marty Nash, Susan McDonald that amazing drawing at the end of
the display case I think about the
special issues of
underrepresented or oppressed groups that was
by Maria Mazzara who is an St. Kate's alumni, but Susan McDonald loaned that to us for this exhibition
So it and a lot of other people sent. Thanks, the slides are from
Beth Bergman and from
Diane McLeod who's out in California now, and I mean I have boxes of other things that people gave to me
Too and hopefully that'll be the seed of an archival collection here at saint it's too
You're welcome. Hey, thank you so many familiar faces and so many that are in the exhibition. Thank you. Oh
Right, where do I go from here
I think the first
The first next thing is actually putting the digital exhibition catalog together
Because that will get all of the artworks and the didactic
Which are basically the product of this research out
onto the web and
That format will then also be you know searchable by Google Bing all of the search engines. So if anybody searches
Any of the names of the warm artists?
This is something that will pop up and because it will have a dot e-d-u at the end of it
initially, I think that's through scale our buddy and I'm pretty sure that's a dot e-d-u those automatically get bumped to the top of
Search engines. So yeah, go Daddy to use but I think really that's the first thing that really has to happen
More people need to know about this history
Yeah
my thoughts about that are like
WTF
We are not a flyover State and everything that was going on here was in line with and
sometimes even ahead of what was going on on the coast and yet they are documented and written about and
That's why I cannot believe that this hasn't been done before
like
Yeah, so I will make sure this happens
Right
Um, I don't know that it's fully formed but I know that I
There isn't anybody who didn't offer to talk to me who didn't answer my questions who didn't want to tell their story and
I think in oral history is the
best way to gather down information in people's own words in their own
time and in their own way, and that would be
The oral history project. I really feel has to happen first before
The history the more comprehensive history can happen because you need all of those different viewpoints to bring it all together
It would be a very large project
there were
Over 90 or just about 90 members of the gallery alone
And that doesn't include the at-large members or the there was I don't know. I think there was a lower tier of number two
And of that there were thousand like a couple thousand I think so there are lots of warm stories out there
So we could get a very complete picture I I feel
But honestly, I don't know how to plan the project yet,
I'm still learning that, but I know there are people around who can help me with that.
Do you know anything about the timeline between and AIR Gallery in New York and WARM and if they interacted with each other at the time of their foundings?
AIR happened slightly earlier and
actually WARM is so freakin smart
they sent people out to AIR and Artemisia and
California to see how they were doing it and then brought it all back and said
"How do we want to set ours up?" And so it was modeled mostly after,
my understanding after AIR in the collective sense.
Rather than, I think Woman Building was set up differently.
(Thank you for a great talk tonight, great presentation. I am also curious if you can speak to any other themes that emerged in the work. Like you showed the bounding.)
Yeah
(Was there anything else that you noticed, that may have emerged? Does that make sense?)
Sure, there are, I mean there are lots of, there are lots of themes, especially relating to body,
nature,
and anthropomorphism of nature and
internal spaces, reflection. There were a lot of those.
But,
oh no, I lost it.
Themes, I know themes, but I lost the, the one that I had that was unusual, or like. I
might come back to that, as I remember it. Sorry.
Were there any other questions?
(Was point of view one of those?)
Yeah, I mean, that's a great one, (thinking about the poster.) Yeah
I'd, Have you have you been through the exhibition yet? Oh, okay. Go, go look, take a look at the,
the Women's Erotic Art Show poster.
It is a classic definition of
subverting the male gaze.
However, it's three years, it was produced three years before that phrase was even coined.
Not the one I was thinking of but thank you. Any other questions?
(I would suggest that you also look at the decision process that went, we went through to close the gallery.)
(Which was very emotional. Maybe more emotional then opening the gallery.)
(And, and a different group of people. And, as you know, this whole subject is very emotionally charged for almost everyone involved with it.)
(And the emotions on that, have never really been addressed.)
That's, and I
actually, I think most of what
one of the donations, the biggest donation of archival material that I got, relates mostly to those last few years.
And I, huh, I when I was
(You will set some people free.)
That's,
that sounds,
(That's a challenge.) (laughter)
Accepted! (laughter)
I'll do it
This one, I really wanted to focus on sort of the beginnings though. And I think a more complete history will also have to
deal with evolutions and endings too.
And it, that's the amazing thing about WARM like it just keeps
evolving and changing and I hope it, I hope it never goes away.
(That's what I was going to ask you. It's still here right?) Absolutely. (Because it is WARM art resources now.)
(I mean you are putting those two as one?)
They are technically the same organization. They changed the name in 1991
to better reflect what WARM was, or is, it wasn't a registry anymore.
Because in, by nineteen, well,
it was probably the mid-90s when people stopped using slides. I still have slides of my work.
(Do you have a slide projector then?)
I do not but I have a whole bunch of little slide viewers. I love them.
(I have an archival question.)
(So you said a lot of this is at MHS? But some is here, so where else are the archives? Or are they primarily trying, are you trying to get most of them in one spot?)
So
the Minnesota Historical Society's collection, their primary focus are the,
what they would call the organizational or business records of
Women's Art Resources of Minnesota,
dating all the way back to 1973.
Within that there is some information
like artist files, right?
But the papers for the individual artists and often even the people who would have been.
So eventually it wasn't non-hierarchical anymore either,
so eventually those leaders and directors their papers are sometimes there, but sometimes they are separate. And that
has a lot to do with what the
archivist thinks should be done with them.
Like whether they should be
this person's
stuff or, or this groups stuff.
And I think
what I'd like
to start here, would be more akin to the, I
don't know, the Women's Art Archives of Minnesota, right? So this would be the papers of the women artists who come here, and that
augments without overlapping too much what the Minnesota Historical Society has.
The things that I used from
MCAD and the University of Minnesota and the Weisman, those were more
about exhibitions or artists who had exhibitions there.
(So could I also add that the Archives of American Art of the Smithsonian in Washington D.C.
has a small collection of WARM documents as well.)
Which is really awesome. (Yeah, which is really swell.)
(Basically they were stuff in my drawers, because I had a connection to a curator there.)
(And I'll just add that last summer they put together from the Archives of American Art an exhibition in Washington,
at the Smithsonian of, like a, an archival material from each state of the union,
and they used a WARM article, I think from  _  for Minnesota.)
(So there's that as well. -Patricia Olson)
Awesome.
(I'm just wondering if you would like to mention the show in the second floor gallery which you also curated and is related to this show. -Nicole Watson)
Well, there's not much to curate with that I mean.
On the second floor. Yes on the second floor. There are all three of
the 10 X 10 portfolios altogether.
And I think this is the first time they've all been shown together since the 80s
(Could you maybe explain what those are to people who aren't familiar with the portfolios?)
10 X 10 the full, I'm sorry, the full title is 10 X 10, Ten Prints by Ten Artists.
And they are, they were all WARM artists.
and
The portfolio's were a way to get the work out to people.
To gather new collectors, to go into the collections of museums, to make it
more accessible to see women's art in your daily lives. And
it's also, I think the fundraiser is still going on,
which is for the scholarship fund for the Women's Art Institute. And
there's, you can talk to Pat, or there's information upstairs too.
(Heather?)
Yeah
I'm Teri Hawthorne and I've done some archival research at the Art Institute, particularly around the Battered Women's Project.)
(And frequently the stuff that goes into the History Society is when)
(an office get's too small. It's mostly stuff that's passed on under crises kinds of situations.)
(And the files are pretty messy. And I just want to say that I am so impressed that a real archivist is working and)
(trying to build, and looking at the bits and pieces.)
(It is such an incredible gift. As somebody who's played with those things and, and, um,)
(They just don't have the benefit and the money to support them. The question then that follows is,
I see the real benefits of what you are doing, and how's it getting funded?)
Thank you to my wonderful husband. (laughter)
And my kids for the, you know, I
am
passionate about this and I'll do it whether I get paid or not.
But when I'm getting paid to do it, it, it definitely makes the process go faster.
So, and I am looking into grant funding.
Most of the problem with that is that individuals can't apply for grant funding.
Small fellowships here and there.
So I'm looking for organizations to help with that. I have recently learned that there is an oral history
nonprofit that was started a year or two ago. And I think their specific aim is to help people like me,
be able to do projects. And they act as the conduit for the funds. So. Without
the stipulations of say,
the Historical Society, where you have to, if you write something, they get first rights, and,
or if you, you know, if you produce an oral history, it has to go into their collection.
It can go someplace else too, but it has to go into their collection.
So, yeah, so help fund those other things that fund things.
(Thank you Heather.)
Thank you everyone. (clapping)
