I'm in West Bengal India right now, and I've just flown here to meet a phone center scammer
He reached out to me on Instagram
and if you don't know about West Bengal
It is ground zero for scam
Call centers as far as I can tell it's the worst place in the world for a scam call centre so many calls
Originate from this one state in India
We're meeting at a park here in Siliguri and he's gonna spill the beans on
everything related to scam call centers why he chose to work in a scam call center how he felt working there and
how these scam call centers work and
Insider's perspective and I'm not sure there's ever been an interview like this before
This could very well be the first time one of these guys has spoken truthfully to a camera
I'm at the meeting point now. I'm looking for artifact and all I say is watch to the end and
Keep an open mind to history and try to put yourself in his position. Okay?
KARL: Welcome Arpun. Oh, thank you. Thank you Karl. KARL: So bro. Where are you from? ARPUN: I'm basically from Darjeeling from West Bengal
actually so I live here in Siliguri right now
And I'm working over here KARL: Before you got a job in a scam call center
tell us about your life up until that point where you were 14, and you entered the industry
how was life before a scam call centre ARPUN: actually at that time
I was like quite depressed because I just went to Kolkata to live with my parents
But they got like separated and I was alone at that time. My father was in the rehab center. We habitation centre where
He was forced to go so KARL: really, was he drinking?
ARPUN: Yeah, he was he was a drinker so that that's the reason I was in school at that time
I was in class nine and I used to take care of my own expenses
and that's why that's the reason why I KARL: Really, you had to support yourself? ARPUN: Yeah
Yeah, from what age from 14 I think
KARL: was it that you were kicked out of home or that you didn't have a home to go back to or.. ARPUN: Yeah
I didn't have a home to go back to in Kolkata because my father he used to live in police quarter. He was in police
So if your dad is not there who is working in police so they will close the room for the family. Yeah
KARL: What about your mom? Where was she? ARPUN: My mom left for Dubai at that time? KARL: She left.
ARPUN: Yeah, she was gone. And she didn't support me at the time. KARL: So you were on your own you're saying, basically.
ARPUN: Yes. Yeah KARL: Wow, that's so tough
And so because of your situation when you were 14 you had to make some money for yourself, right?
Yes, definitely
and so what could you find as a 14 year old kid in Kolkata to do what kind of work would you find one of
My friend who is studying with me. His name is Prince Singh and
He just told me I found one call centre which is genuine
they are saying that they are genuine so we went there and we
Went for interview and we didn't know that it was a fraud call center
So that's the reason we started to work there. KARL: just because you needed money
ARPUN: Yeah, I had no option. I can do any job once I'm 18
but before 18 I can't get a job in Kolkata
They will ignore you if you are less than 18 because it's child labour, you know
KARL: So you went for the training and you had to kind of fund your own training
You had to fund your way there your food and everything. So you're spending a hundred rupees a day, just to get training
So after ten days of training you're already 1000 rupees down
ARPUN: Yeah. KARL: So when you got the script,
what type of scam was it, which scam? It was a Microsoft windows scam in which we had to call those customers and
Tell them that your computer is affected from viruses and that's that was the thing
KARL: That was the old technical support support scam. ARPUN: It's old
KARL: Did you realise straight away that this was a scam and that you were taking money from people?
How long did it take you to realize it was a scam? ARPUN: Actually,
it takes two to three months to speak all this script which is given. At first, we only
used to turn on the computer and we transferred the call to our senior supervisors
KARL: You were just doing the beginning of the scam. ARPUN: Yeah, we just used to say "Hello, sir
This is Alan Paul, and I'm calling you from the technical department regarding your Windows computer
Are you interested in that?" If they said "Yes", then we used to transfer the call. KARL: That's a technician. Yeah level 3 technician
ARPUN: Yeah, we never knew that it was wrong. KARL: And I say you were you were a small fish in this yeah
KARL: And what was your name? ARPUN: My name was Alan Paul
KARL: Did you think that was strange though? Did you think why am I not using my real name Arpun?
ARPUN: Yeah, I did ask them for the reason
They said "You'll have to change your name. You will have to make your name
sound like you are from US or New Zealand or something like that
KARL: And did you guys say your location was in the US like "We're in, California". ARPUN: Yeah
So they're telling you to lie at the beginning. ARPUN: Actually we didn't get any script
We only got that part where we can only say "Hello, sir
This is Alan Paul and I'm calling you from Windows technical department. Your computer is infected by some viruses
Okay, so you'll have to turn on your computer so that we can show you all these problems
Okay, then how super supervisors used to handle rest.
KARL: At what point did you know that you were working for a scam call center then? ARPUN: After two to three months
I was like shocked to know that they are scamming people but there was no choice
I was working in a call center for my own expenses
So I can't leave KARL: And so after you found out you're working in the scam call center. How did you feel then?
Because you were stuck in this job. You couldn't leave you needed the money you were on your own
How did you feel? ARPUN: I cried a lot at that time because
I really didn't know. I didn't want to cheat peoples
Okay
I'm not that type of guy. So after knowing we started ignoring the people of call center. We were
fed up with that call center. We didn't want to work for that company anymore
So we just decided to leave that company. Okay, so I joined a catering job at that time, like the hotel management thing
Yeah, so they used to pay me 200 per day
It was good, but the company men came to our home and KARL: The call center guys came? ARPUN: Yeah
Yeah, three of them came to our home room and took my friend and me to the company KARL: forcefully?
ARPUN: Yeah, forcefully. KARL: really, they can do that?
ARPUN: Yeah, actually when we joined we had an agreement that we will not leave the company until one year, you know
We'll do our training and after one year
we can leave so that was the agreement. KARL: And how much were they paying you for a month?
ARPUN: I remember it was seven thousand five hundred per month at the time KARL: Only? Rs 7500?
ARPUN: Yes. KARL: Wow, that's about I don't know $100 American a month something like that
But that was enough for you as a kid to get by right? ARPUN: Yeah, I used to pay like
2,000 rupees for my school fee KARL: you were going to school at the same time?
ARPUN: Yeah, I was going to school at the same time KARL: and paying your own school fee? ARPUN: Yeah
KARL:Wow. ARPUN: I was I was doing my school and work at the same time
I used to work at nights, my friend and me,  we used to work in night shift and morning time we
actually go to school
ARPAN: we used to work in sector five in Kolkata, so in one building there were around
16 to 17 companies in one building
KARL: 16 to17 scam call centers in one building sector five ARPUN: there are lots of buildings in that area, all of which have
scam call centers over there. KARL: Were you ever scared of getting caught while you were working at this at these scam call centres?
KARL: did you ever think maybe the police will shut us down. ARPUN: Yeah, actually
One incident happened in our call center. FBI persons, they entered the office
Okay, then like when they were checking the first floor, we all ran from there
We were on the top floor of that building so the receptionist called and told that it was a FBI raid so just
leave from here. So we ran and Prince and I were not even wearing shoes and we ran away from there.
KARL: So you guys nearly got caught? ARPUN: Yeah
KARL: Do they train you how to deal with people like me or Jim browning? Who call you guys and waste your time
What do they tell you? How do they tell you to deal with us?
ARPUN: If you are teasing them, they will definitely cut the call
Hang up the call and take another call. Okay?
So in one day there are1200 to 1500 calls that you will have to take, in one day or one night. KARL: Wow
It's a numbers game. If I just start swearing at you or abusing you, you'd just cut the call and move on to the next lead.
ARPUN: Yeah, so if you realize that it's a scam call, just say "You are a scammer from India
Okay, we don't want any product from you"  They will definitely cut the call
Yeah, at first they will force you to buy the products
But once you are saying again, and again that you are scammer, they will just cut the phone. KARL: they'll give up
That's the best advice, totally the best advice. And bro, have you ever got a scam call? ARPUN: Yeah. Yeah
KARL: Has a scammer been scammed? ARPUN: It's a good question though.
Just today I got a call in the morning. KARL: Who was it?
The share trading people? They keep calling me
ARPUN: What they actually did was they called me in the morning, when I was
having my breakfast. They called me and said you have won
$15,600. So to transfer that amount you will have to give us six thousand five hundred rupees. i said..
KARL: Yeah, Nahi chahiye ji. ARPUN: Nahi chahiye ji. So this is what you can say to these people when they call, "Nahi chahiye ji"
KARL: And bro, so, what's your message to
other people who are working in these scam call centers. ARPUN: I got to know that there are lots of companies over here
which can give you a job. Even if you are not 18,
you can get a job for around six to seven thousand rupees (per month), so don't go go for more money
instead, go for a genuine company. Yeah, they will pay you a little less, but you can be happy for that
KARL: Yeah, mentally you can be happy. Feel good about yourself
ARPUN: Yeah, so you don't regret that you were working for a scam call centre. I do regret it.
So that's my small advice. KARL: Do you feel shame from this part of your life?
ARPUN: Yeah, I do because in call centers,
they give you a monthly target like you have to make $1,500
howsoever, if you want your salary. So yeah, they will provide you much better leads
But you will have to do fifteen hundred dollars per month for a single single person.
If you don't do that, then they deduct money from you salary.
They will give only half of it. KARL: You've got to make your targets to get your full salary.
ARPUN: Yeah, so we tried our best in those days. So I think yeah, it was bad. I know it was bad, but I
didn't have any choice. KARL: That was life
ARPUN: That was life. KARL: So what do you want from your life now that you're an honest man? What do you want going forward?
ARPUN: I have started my youtube channel. Through that channel
I'm helping other people, dancers, singers and you can say, local talents.
You are my motivation. You came here and
joined me. It's good. it's a pleasure to have you here. So thank you for coming here and taking my interview. KARL: Thank you bro.
No worries. Now guys you've heard Arpun's story
It's a story of desperation
right, and he left out a lot of personal details
Which he has told me. His life was tough and he was basically forced into this
But I believe in second chances, right we all deserve a second chance and now Arpun is living a positive life
He has changed his life. His righting his wrongs. He's helping people through his YouTube channel just the way that I do
So guys before you comment try and put yourself in his shoes
okay, and Arpun and I are gonna make some more videos we're gonna go and expose a scam call centre here and then hopefully
We'll make some travel vlogs together as well some more kind of positive content from here in West Bengal
I'm gonna link to his channel in the description
So go and check it out go and subscribe go and support him that way. Thank you guys so much and Jai Hind.
