Hey, everyone.
Thank you once again
for submitting your questions
and for tuning into this World
Day Against Trafficking panel.
Over the past couple of days,
we broke up
our original conversation
into four parts.
Part 3 is starting now.
As we continue the panel,
we just wanted to bring
attention to the fact
that we are discussing
some difficult
and possibly triggering
subjects.
The goal here is to have
an honest, thoughtful,
informative and worthwhile
conversation.
So we hope you all enjoy
part 3.
We've spoken about
the societal barriers
that make it easier
for predators to target.
We've spoken
about potential reasons
why a victim may be targeted.
It isn't a clear-cut
conversation,
but again, we got
so many questions
wondering how an individual
stays safe from exploitation.
And like I said,
it's not black and white,
but I do think this conversation
of--of us understanding
what exploitation is
is the first step.
And--and the idea of
how do we stop perpetuating it
when we don't even realize
that we may be a part of that.
I want to--I want to comment.
This is not to--
This is not to shame or put down
this person's question,
but I think that we need
to be very mindful
of how we word things,
because saying
"How do we stay safe
from getting trafficked?"
sounds like you're placing blame
on the person who's
being exploited.
So I think that--
I understand the intention
behind the question
and the answer to it is that
there is no actual way.
There's no like, you know,
rulebook or step-by-step.
Like, "This is how not
to get trafficked."
But I do think,
like you said, Vanessa,
defining it, first of all,
and getting
that actual definition and
remembering that part
about the abuse of power and
vulnerability is very important.
I also think, um, it's not
so much how to stay safe
from getting trafficked
but more so
educating yourself on
what trafficking looks like--
in all forms,
not just the white van--
and also recognizing--
doing more research
on the grooming process
and what that could look like.
So, like, you know, somebody's
buying you gifts too early,
or somebody's--like the
language that they're using,
if they're making you feel
like you owe them something
or if it's like, "You're gonna
do this for me."
Like, watch out
for those things.
It's very similar to just
an abusive relationship
or a domestic violence partner.
A lot of those things
intersect
and the language
will intersect,
but there isn't like a defi--
like, there isn't
a step-by-step guide
on how to stay safe
because again,
this exploitation process,
the system of prostitution,
it literally targets
your vulnerabilities
that are out of your control.
So you can control something
that you're just a part of
naturally.
So that's why there's no real
reason and no way
to in your own free will
prevent yourself,
but I do think if you educate
yourself on what it looks like,
what traffickers might say
or things that they may--may do,
and what the cycle of violence
necessarily looks like,
learning what threats
and intimidations sounds like,
those type of things, I think
that you have a better chance
at recognizing red flags
sooner
than some people who have been
exploited in the past.
And I think sharing
that information
with friends,
with family members--
if you're educating yourself,
educating other people
as well.
- Absolutely.
- We have to continue
having a conversation
about this.
That's the only way
to truly combat something,
is to understand it.
Absolutely.
What Melanie was saying,
it's not that people
walk, like, "Oh, I want
to be trafficked."
Or "I want to engage
in prostitution,"
Or "I want to end up
on the commercial sex trade."
It's more about that--
and I think so that
even this question came out
with--you know,
I think so that we need
to move out of this
romanticizing and glamorization
of prostitution and that,
like, it's a safe space
where you are going to play,
and there is no harm
and all this things.
I think so that we need to
start talking about realities.
And especially
with young people.
I think so that we don't--
they don't need--
we don't need to romanticize,
like, to,
put sugarcoating things
and all this things.
No, this is happening like,
this can happen,
this is happening already.
Like, even--
and I like to say this.
Like, even if we are
having this conversation,
like, people are being
trafficked.
Like, and that drives
me crazy
because it's like, how sometimes
we are part of it.
Like, how--and it's interesting
that you are asking this,
because I think so
the one way
to combat human trafficking
is to understand
that human trafficking
and prostitution
- are linked together.
- Yes.
And that it's a system rooted
in racism, patriarchy,
capitalism, and also,
we need to start talking about,
like, the--
the role of the buyers,
because they are the ones
who are filling a lot
of exploitation.
That buyers are the one
who are like
giving the money for this.
So I think so that
we need to keep this real
and always talking with facts,
and you know?
I think so that this happen
also to Melanie,
but with me it's like,
I'm sharing all this
and it's not easy to share that,
"Oh, I'm a survivor
of human trafficking."
Of course we deal with
so many things,
but we are doing this because
we don't want people
to--to be trafficked.
You don't want people
who are watching this
to one day encounter
a situation
and what we want is to be
people aware
to be people taking
one each other
and you know, if you see
a red flag, and also,
really, to all the people
who are out there,
with your partners,
with your family,
with your friend,
with your co-worker,
if your guts is telling you
something, trust it.
Like, it's so wise to
trust your body, like for real.
Especially when it comes--
if somebody is approaching you
in certain way, if somebody
is giving you a gift
in a certain way,
if somebody is giving you,
like, "Oh, how beautiful
you are" in a certain way,
it make you feel
uncomfortable,
that means that your body--
it's--it's--
seeing something that you are--
that you are not aware of.
So always trust your feelings.
Mm-hmm.
For sure, and you know,
it's interesting,
going back to
this idea of how difficult
it is to speak out
when you're a survivor
and how appreciative we are,
by the way, of you guys
using your voices
the way that you are,
because this question,
we got a lot,
and it just goes to show
the misconception that is
out there
that there is a play-by-play
book that can keep you safe.
Um, again, we have to have
these conversations
and we have to hear
firsthand experiences
to know that it's not
that simple,
and to know how insidious it is.
Yeah, and another question
we got a lot was..."Is there--
are there signs that
someone is being trafficked?"
From either a friend perspective
or from a stranger perspective.
You know, "Are there signs
that someone might be
"experiencing trafficking?
What can you do
specifically to help them if
there are those signs?"
So, with children under 18,
specifically school--
like middle school-age children,
as I was mentioning earlier,
some of those signs
are pretty, like, it sounds
kind of generic and cliché,
but like if you see children
with amounts of money
that you know doesn't
necessarily equate
to, um, allowance, per se,
lunch money.
If you see, um--if you notice
a change in their attendance.
The problem with this is that,
many of the signs
that you see for a child
that's being trafficked
can also be signs
of abuse in the home,
can also be signs
of intimate partner violence,
can also--so they're all--
they all intersect,
which is why I don't like
really giving them
because it can be anything.
The money more so than anything
can be a sign
of either, like, them involved
in drug--in selling drugs
or them being exploited.
So that's, like, one of
the main signs for
children that I would say,
but there's not that many
across the board, because
they all look like something.
So my biggest thing is,
if you're questioning
or doubting it, ask,
and if you're wrong--
I'd rather be wrong and ask
than not know and take a guess.
Because what does end up
happening is that
because we don't know or
because something looks like
"It's not my business," or
"I don't want to get involved,"
we stay silent and that--like,
you could've been the person
that could've helped that.
There was so many times
when I was in prostitution
that people would walk past me
knowing something was wrong--
like, I'm bleeding, I'm beat up,
I'm limping,
I'm walking slow--and people
would walk past and just
look back as if I was weird
or not--I didn't fit, right?
And sometimes it wasn't
that drastic.
Sometimes I just looked tired
and I'm in
shorts and a t-shirt
and it's 6:00 in the morning
and I'm, like, sitting
in Grand Central Station.
Like there's so many
different ways
that I've been bypassed,
but if somebody
would have just stopped
and said "Are you okay?"
Or "Do you need help?"
Anything.
Like something that simple
could've made
a huge, huge change.
So in my opinion,
there's not that many signs
that are obvious because they
can be literally anything,
but if you see anything
that looks out of place,
whether it be as extreme
as bruises
or money or bleeding or
something as minute
as this perfect attendance
student
hasn't come to school
in a week,
anything like that,
or you notice that this person--
one of the biggest signs
that they say for children
is that if you see a kid
that you know
is usually with
a certain group of friends
and then you notice that they're
not
with that group of friends
anymore, that's usually
a sign of--that's part
of the grooming process where
your trafficker tries to get
you into isolation,
so they tell you you can't talk
to these people anymore,
dah dah dah, so that's usually
a sign, per se,
but if you notice anything,
it's always worth
just trying to ask, period.
Because then, in that,
you might find out
that they're being exploited.
So, yeah.
So, I--I--I--I--
I will say the same,
actually, that, yeah.
And especially with adults,
for a lot of people
it may look like--
like domestic violence,
like intimate violence
and...that is why
it's so hard, you know.
But as Melanie say,
if it's your friend,
if it's your neighbor
and you know them,
if it's part of your family
and you start seeing
something different,
because I remember
that psychological question,
it's so silently
and it's taking over control,
like literally over
everything on you, it's--
that's why
there are no really, like,
red flags
or like signs say like,
"Oh, I'm being trafficked,"
like, because you know
the victim usually it's like
under so much pressure,
anxiety, trauma,
that it's like--
but if you start seeing
like, I don't know, like,
maybe an abusive partner,
things like that, don't--
don't just say, like,
"Oh, well, they're boyfriends
and I cannot say anything."
Like, go and ask, like.
It's way better to ask
or something because
that is one of the things
that human trafficking, that,
and--and--
when Melanie was saying
that somebody--
so many people
bypassed me,
it was the same with me.
Like, so many people
could approach me
and ask me, like,
"How are you doing?"
Like, "Where are you living?"
Like,
"With who are you living?"
or things like that,
small things like that,
I would probably, like,
be open and say, like,
"Help me!"
or things like that,
but because nobody's
approaching you,
because of this fear, like,
"It's not happening to me,"
or, "I don't know,
it's their family,"
or "Is it a boyfriend
or girlfriend or partner?
Like,
I shouldn't ask anything."
You know? I think so that
we need to start
breaking that paradigm,
that fear of asking that,
and to worry about others.
And one other thing I can say
that could be obvious,
not so obvious for adults.
Let's say you have
your apartment,
and you live next to somebody,
or you have a roommate
that is usually like,
"Hi," and friendly,
or, you know, cordial
or whatever have you.
And then you notice every time
they're around a certain person
their head is down,
that lack of eye contact
is very big in
the grooming process
when you're--specifically
when you're streetwalking
but when you have
a trafficker in general.
So if you notice--honestly,
if you notice any changes
from what you think is the norm
with that person that you know,
that's a red flag,
but specifically, having--
children having cash, and
adults not giving eye contact
or being silent
or not saying hello
when they're
with a certain person,
that's all part
of the grooming process.
It's the idea of quote-unquote,
"pimps up, hos down."
So you don't make eye contact
and they're supposed
to be beneath you and inferior.
So that's something definitely
to look out for,
and I did have a client once,
a mentee,
that her neighbor was the one
who realized
that she was being exploited
because
she didn't say hello to her
when she walked.
And the thing with adults--
like with children it's hard,
because all of these diff--
like, children's emotions
can go all over
for many reasons--
"He didn't sit at lunch
with me."
"She didn't play with me."
--so you never know,
but with adults,
usually if somebody's friendly
and then their attitude switches
quickly, there's a problem.
So usually that's something
to ask,
because adults don't just
naturally switch
because they can contain how
they're feeling more often.
So when you see
sudden switches like that,
that's definitely something
to look out for.
This actually transitions
a little bit
into, um, a question that we
have about, you know,
why silence happens and--
and the emotional journey
that can come from
being a survivor.
In "Saving Zoe," there's
a tremendous amount of guilt
and embarrassment and fear
and denial
that my character Zoe
experiences
and that contributes
to her staying silent.
That contributes to her not
asking for help.
Can you guys speak a little bit
about the emotional journey
that comes with surviving
trafficking or exploitation?
Yes, I can start.
Like--and I think so that's why
it's so important,
like, for more males to have
this conversation,
because I think so that here
is where machismo, like,
how male--how manly you are,
like, play a role,
because remember that
human trafficking is
sexual exploitation so,
sexual harassment and rape
and I think so that that we
have this idea of
males cannot be raped.
So I think so that is one of
the big barriers that--
especially when you are
being trafficked or abused
and your body is reacting,
and...
you force yourself to believe
that "I am enjoying this.
"So I'm part of this,
and I choose to do this."
And even if you don't understand
that your body
and your mind are now separated
and you are disassociating
and your body is reacting
because...
to signals,
to external signals,
I think so that is
one of the barriers,
that how sexual violence,
sex trafficking,
it's, like, an abuse
of your whole body,
of your mind, of everything,
and it's how your body
protects you.
The other thing is
the cultural component.
Like, males don't talk
about it.
Like, males, we don't recognize
when we are raped.
Like, even if we are raped,
we are afraid, like,
that we are not being
man enough,
that nobody's going
to like you,
that--how your sexual
life is going to see,
how other males
are going to see you.
I think so that the cultural
component is huge
about, like, keeping silent.
Another thing
is the trauma bond.
Remember that most of
the traffickers--
a lot of traffickers are--
can be family members,
friends, partners, or somebody
who just bond with you.
So it's hard because
in your mind,
through the psychological
coercion, the abuse,
the violence,
the sexual violence,
you feel--because you feel it,
that you receive help.
And in that moment in time,
your mind,
it cannot exist. Like,
"But I was receiving help,
so I wasn't abused."
Or "I was receiving help,"
or "I was being supported,
so I wasn't exploit."
So, because your mind
cannot hold those two things.
It's too much to hold it,
because, like,
it's--and I think so,
this is part of
the control component,
this narrative that
your partner is the one who
is going to take care of you.
The people who love you
is the one
who is going to take care
of you, so,
if we--if we continue
with this narrative
is that okay, so the people who
are helping me
and supporting me,
they are the good ones.
They are the ones who
are taking care of me.
They are the ones who are
protecting me.
So that means it doesn't matter
whatever they do,
they are the good people and
they are helping me.
And it's me the one who is
understanding other thing.
It's me the one who is
creating a history.
It's me the one who is
overreacting.
It's me the one who
are the one to blame,
who is the guilty one,
who is--so,
this is the problem
with trauma bond,
and to be honest,
I think so that
we need to extend about
what is trauma bond,
because it's true,
we have feelings
with our perpetrators,
with our abusers,
with our traffickers,
because you know what?
We have spent certain amount
of times.
To be honest,
probably they were the ones
who gave us housing or food
for the first time
in days, in months, in weeks.
I don't know, like,
a hug in so many times.
Like, those feelings that
we didn't receive,
so it's true.
I think so that sometimes,
we discredit
what survivors feels,
because we blame them,
you know.
Like, especially when we
don't understand trauma bond
and how, like--"But how you
end up being trafficked?
And it's like, "It's not
that I decide to be trafficked."
It's not that I decided, like,
suffer from transphobia,
homophobia, xenophobia,
or have born with
certain color of skins,
or grew up with certain family,
different family, or immigrate.
It wasn't, like,
really my decision.
It's all the system
and all this people
who are there, like,
preying on these--
all these vulnerabilities.
So I think so that those
are the main components
and probably Melanie
have more,
but at least for me
those are the main ones.
And I think so that--
I want to tell people
who are watching this
that if you
met one survivor and
a survivor is telling you
part of your story,
like, honor that.
And when I say honor that,
it's not like you to be shocked,
it's not like for you
to rescue them, to help them.
It's not about that.
It's just like,
hold that space for them
because it's hard for us
to really trust people,
because remember,
human trafficking is about
exploitation
of our body, of our mind,
of our soul.
It's about exploitation
of a human being.
So it's hard for survivors
to talk about this.
Cristian just brought up
so many amazing points.
One of the things that stood out
that he said
was that idea of, um,
your body is reacting
but your mind doesn't want this,
and I think that happens
in rape, too.
Because the body is physical,
and physical reactions
have nothing to do with
what's going on up here.
And in the beginning, when
they're still breaking you in,
that grooming process,
that beginning stage,
almost every time you get taken
or you first
have an engagement
with your trafficker,
they rape you.
That's how they break you in.
They make you scared of that,
right?
And--in most cases.
And that's the first--
besides being scared,
that's the first emotional, um,
thought that you have.
Like, "I don't like this,
but why am I feeling this
down there?"
"Why am I" whatever.
Then there's this idea
of that trauma bond.
So it's interesting,
'cause trauma bond
can extend
to Stockholm syndrome,
which is what many people
who leave their traffickers
end up facing.
I--I didn't have it,
thank God.
But, um, a lot of people
miss their trafficker,
and I think that--the thing is
we don't like the beatings,
we know that they'll hit me.
But part of what Cristian
was mentioning earlier
about that conditioning,
once you've been hit,
beaten, repeatedly raped,
left, like, with, um--
denied food, denied water--
I was locked in
an abandoned house in a closet.
I couldn't shower until I
made a certain amount of money.
When you're denied these things,
it becomes so bad
that when you actually exit
and get out,
you say to yourself,
"That wasn't that bad,
because it could be this."
"He didn't kill me,
so that wasn't too bad."
Or "He beat me,
he gave me a black eye,
but he let me eat that night,
so he has a heart."
So you start to--you start
to make yourself
accept the abuse that you were--
that you were receiving
because you wanted to see
the good in that person,
or because you still
made it out,
or because you still can see,
and you're not blind
from that punch or that kick
or that pistol whip or whatever.
So you start--and this comes
with the trauma bonding--
you start to make excuses
and justify the actions
because that person has
conditioned you to feel
like they're the only person
that's gonna care for you,
or they're the only person
that's in your corner.
This happened with me
the first time I was arrested.
I was arrested at 13.
Now I was not in a love
relationship with my trafficker,
nor was I in a--he wasn't
a romantic pimp,
so I didn't know him prior to
him taking me off the street.
But after a certain amount
of time with him,
the first time I got arrested,
he had engrained in my head
the fake story I was gonna
give the police officers,
which I did, but I remember
when I was 15,
I didn't have any--
it's a long story.
I didn't have any closure
with him because he--
he ended up finding out
that the police were coming
to break down the house
and he left, he fled.
He kept me locked in the closet
and he disappeared.
So the next thing you know
I'm arrested
and I never seen him
since.
But I remember the first
juvenile detention facility
I was in, I caught myself
writing a letter to him.
Doesn't have an address
for him,
didn't know where I was,
but I wanted to know
why he left.
And somebody said to me--
I remember a worker saw that
and was like,
"How can you write a letter
to someone who did all
these horrible things to you?
And people don't recognize
that we are now conditioned
that what they did
was not that bad.
Because I'm still alive
and I can still walk
and I've eaten and you know,
X, Y, and Z.
So it doesn't always look like
he threw you in a wall,
he drugged you with a needle,
and take it,
and had you, like, laid out,
and you just want
to be with your family.
I missed my family.
My family thought I was dead.
He constantly used my siblings
and mother as a threat
and that intimidation.
But he would
also say things like,
"As soon as we make this,
we're gonna get out of here."
Or "We're only doing this
so we can live a better life."
Or X, Y, Z.
These little things--
or those--those compliments
and those promises
you got during
the grooming process,
those things stay with you.
And because you have now--
your self-esteem
has been broken down, you hold
on to those little promises.
Despite all of the fire,
you find that little needle
in the haystack
because you are--in your mind,
you've accepted it
so now it becomes,
"Okay, well, I deserve this."
"Okay, well, it was my fault."
"Okay, well, I didn't run
fast enough."
"I didn't escape fast enough."
:I didn't jump out of the window
fast enough."
So now, because you've taken on
and accepted
this responsibility and
in your mind,
you feel like you had a part
and a role to play,
now you accept all of
that abuse as forms of love
because he still made sure
you changed your clothes,
or because X, Y, Z.
So the cycle of trauma
is extremely, extremely
complex,
and it's not for a lot
of people to understand
and many people don't, because
when they hear these stories,
they think "Well, he did this
to you" or "She did this to you,
you should be mad at them
forever. Never forgive."
Or "He did this to you,
that means
he didn't care for you
at all,"
and nine times
out of ten they don't.
But the way trauma works,
we see it as that.
If he hits me today
and then he--
he goes and has sex with you
after and makes up for it,
that's him "making up for it."
So now you're like,
"I think he loves me."
Or "I think he cares for me."
And that stays with you,
and the other thing
I wanted to mention
about the emotional abuse
that a lot of people
don't take into account,
I always say you can take
a person out of prostitution
but you can never take
prostitution out of a person.
And what I mean by that is
that the effects,
mentally and psychologically,
that you endure in the life
stay with you forever.
I consider myself
a decent advocate.
I can speak, I'm well-versed,
I know how to tell my story
and not cry onstage.
However, I still gotta go
in the mirror every morning
and look at myself and remember
when my pimp made me
look in the mirror
and say that I ain't shit,
excuse my French.
So the thing is,
these are things
that stay with you forever.
As I mentioned earlier,
part of the grooming process
is you not looking
another pimp in the eye
so you keep your head down.
I have problems to this day
giving eye contact
with somebody
for more than 10 seconds.
Little things like this
stay with you.
Sometimes you might have--
I suffer with really bad PTSD.
Nightmares, night sweats,
insomnia, all of these things
or if I have a bad dream
or if I hear something.
If I hear a loud noise
or a boom,
or if somebody walks past
me on the street
and smells like
a certain cologne.
There's so many different
triggers that you received--
and that couldn't even be--
that could be cologne
from a sex bar,
it doesn't have to be a pimp.
It can be something or someone
that you come into contact with
or someplace that you pass
that your pimp may have
driven past.
There's
so many different things
and people don't understand
that this is a battle
that we have to deal with
for the rest of our lives.
That mental breakdown
and conditioning
is something that has lifelong
adverse effects.
And many people think
that once you're taken,
taken out of prostitution,
or take out of
your exploitative situation,
that all of a sudden--
they love to use words
like "rescued" and "saved"
and "escaped."
Which--by the way, I cannot
stand those terms.
But a lot of people think
that you are now--
you found your salvation so now
the sun is just magically
gonna come out for you.
And I need people to recognize
and I want to emphasize
that one, mental health
in general
is very complex and very hard
for most human beings.
And the majority
of American society at least
suffers with depression;
over 80% of individuals
are diagnosed.
But to add to that somebody
deliberately
breaking down your psyche,
that is something that
is gonna stay with you forever.
It--it interrupts or it
impacts your sex life later on.
It impacts how you make
relationships with other people,
people that you date,
how you look at yourself,
if you judge yourself
too critically
or not too critically.
There's so many ways
that just having one experience
or one commercial sex act
can really impact you.
And I hope I didn't rant,
but I needed people
to hear that
because it's so--
this is something
that I'm still living with
10 years later.
And I still can't look
in the mirror at certain times
and I still judge myself too
much because
that's all my trafficker did,
or that's--
and sex buyers,
sex buyers choose you
based off of how you look
to them.
So everything--the first time
I was sold to somebody,
I was sold for $1,000.
It took me 15 years
to get out of my head
that I'm only worth $1,000.
These are things that stay
with you for life
and some people still haven't
gotten past that.
So I really want people
to recognize
that no, we're not all thrown
into white vans;
no, we're not all
chained to basements.
Yes, sometimes it's
a boyfriend or a partner,
and these are things
that even 10 years out
as an esteemed advocate,
I still suffer.
And I need people to know
that I will still be suffering
when I'm 30, and I'm still
gonna suffer when I'm 50,
because the things that happened
to us were not humane.
So it wasn't part
of our psychological--
humans are not supposed
to go through--
nobody should be
going through these things,
and love and safety is on
our hierarchy of needs.
So if that was taken from us
and then replaced
with banishment and--and abuse,
and then saying
"This is what love looks like,"
now our psyche's all messed up.
Our hierarchy of needs
is all over the place,
and now we have to--
it's up to us
to reteach ourselves how to
reintegrate into society
and how to be a--
a "normal" or "average" person
when all we feel is distrust
and that we're not normal.
So it's something that's
lifelong,
it's never gonna leave us
and that's why
it's so critical that survivors
are at the table
when policies
are being implemented,
That's why it's so critical
when movies about this come out
to have survivors
in those conversations,
all types of things.
Because there's only--
only survivors know
certain things that happen
in the lifestyle and it's very,
very, very imperative
for us to be at the table.
Melanie, thank you so much
for being so honest
and so candid and putting
yourself out there
because I really think
that this is
such an important topic and
you're absolutely right--
survivors have to be
at the table.
They have to be at the center
of the table talking about this.
I'm actually gonna skip slightly
ahead and we're gonna go back
to other questions
that we had planned
because this transitions
so well into it,
and we also got
this question a bunch:
"As friends and close ones,
what's the best way
to react or respond to someone
who is coming out
of a trafficking situation
or dealing with exploitation?"
And what you just spoke
so eloquently about
and so passionately about is
your emotional survival.
What can--what can loved ones,
what can people do?
What is the best way
to support someone?
I would say that
it is really hard.
To be honest, I--I--
First, people need to understand
that we don't trust people,
especially if we are
just coming out of the life
or just coming from
a trafficking experience.
Like, we don't trust people,
because we can't trust anybody.
So even if this person
was your friend,
or is your family, like,
it's not the same person
that you met before
the trafficking
and after the trafficking.
So healing, it's
different in every person,
and it's going to take
a lot of time,
a lot of resources, and a
lot of patience and compassion.
The thing with survivors
of commercial exploitation,
trafficking and prostitution
is that probably we're going to
trigger those around us
because I know that all of us
who have experienced trauma,
we have experienced,
like, different situations,
but sometimes trafficking
encompass so many things
that probably when we are
sharing something,
we are going to trigger you,
so I think so that
if you want to really support
a person who is--
who just escaped from
trafficking,
who is still dealing
with all this things,
like, have compassion for
that person,
but have compassion
for yourself also.
Because you are going to
need that a lot, like, for real.
Like, and I think so that
sometimes survivors,
we are like--it's not
that we want to be mean,
but we are sometimes
super up front,
because we don't--
we don't like lies,
we don't--
we don't live in that world.
And so, especially
when we just came out of
the trafficking situation,
we are so vulnerable
at the same time,
but we are super triggered
at the same time.
So it's super hard.
I think so like to--
especially with friends
and all this things.
What I would say to friends
and family is, like,
first, educate yourself,
because...
you don't want to be that
friend, that family member,
that partner who is like,
"How were you trafficked?"
Like, "How many people
slept with you?"
"How much were you charging?"
"How many money
were you earning?"
Like, things--those are
so disrespectful things,
things that nobody
needs to know
other than maybe
your therapist
or your lawyer or even
though--if you want
to, you know, nobody,
but first, educate yourself.
If you really want
to support a survivor,
educate yourself, you know?
I think so that sometimes
when we hear "survivor,"
it's like "Oh, we can ask
whatever we want,"
and--and you know,
like--like--
just digging
in your business.
No, no, that's not true.
Like, we have feelings.
We are also human beings.
As Melanie says,
we experience something
that any human being
shouldn't experience
in any point in time,
in life, for real, like,
for real.
I'm always--
when I talk about this,
I'm always like...
for real, like,
I don't want no one else
to be in trafficked,
being exploited because
of their vulnerabilities,
because they are immigrant,
because they are part
of the LGBT community,
so really, educate yourself,
like--like and respect--
I think so that sometimes
also survivors
we have to really push
our boundaries
because sometimes people--
I don't know why, but,
thinks that survivors
are weak and that
we cannot but--
and usually people want
to trespass our boundaries
and usually,
at the same time
we are super mindful,
so I think so that survivors
are super mindful.
We understand that--that
what do you want to achieve,
but that is not
the right path,
so if a survivor is tell--
is setting a boundary,
like, respect that.
If a survivor is telling you,
"This is not the time
to talk about this,"
like, respect that,
like, and honor that
and all this things
and at the same time
if you really want to help this,
have this conversation,
show this video
to more people, like,
to increase awareness
and also like...
If you suspect that somebody
has been a victim
of human trafficking,
you cannot approach that person
and put that label on them.
Even if you know a survivor
and that person
doesn't identify themselves
as a survivor,
you never put a label
on somebody.
You never put a label--
"Oh, but,
that sounds like you're a
survivor of human trafficking."
"That sounds like you're a
survivor of sex trafficking."
Never, never, never, never.
Because this is such
a personal experience
and there are people that,
they just want to continue
their life, because this is
not easy, as Melanie was saying.
This is something that we
are continually experiencing,
like, 24/7.
Actually, Melanie and I,
we were having
a conversation about
how was I dealing
with nightmares
and I was like--and we
were kind of like, kind of,
like laughing, like--like--
you know what? Like,
"Call me," Like, "We
are both having nightmares."
And all this things that,
we were like,
interchanging, like, self-care
tips and all this things,
but it's hard. It's really
hard to be a survivor out there,
especially because the
world is now trauma-informed.
You want to approach--
people want to approach us
like if we are like
something new.
Like if you can touch
every part of us,
like, "But I want to learn,
I want to learn.
"I want to dig inside of you
and see your darkness,"
and it's like,
you cannot do that.
We are human beings and
we are still suffering
from our experience,
so respect that.
And I would say that--
that is that.
Really, people,
educate yourself,
like, and be really respectful.
Be really respectful
about how people identify
and never put labels
on others.
Really quickly I just want
to add, um,
the--when you're--
somebody is a friend of yours
that's just coming out
of trafficking,
approach them with the same
compassion and delicacy
as you would a family member
of yours
that's having, like,
a mental health episode, right?
Like people--and again,
going back to that stigma,
they think survivors are weak.
Simultaneously society thinks
people with mental health
are weak or can't--
don't have the ability
to think for themselves.
On a smaller scale compared
to what Cristian said,
so many people that hear
about my story come up to me
and say,
"Have you considered therapy?"
Don't ask that, because that's
probably one of the first things
that we consider
in our healing journey.
And so many people--
like, it's very condescending
to think that we're stupid
enough to not try
to seek out that kind of help.
But also, don't tell survivors
what you think they should do.
And it's one thing to
provide resources
and say "Do you know
this number?
"Have you ever heard
of this agency?"
"Do you know this person?"
That's one thing,
but when you're like,
"I think you should try yoga."
"I think you should do--"
Those things may work for you,
but you're coming from a place
of not experiencing
complex trauma.
So do not impose
what you think,
and you shouldn't do that
for anybody.
Don't yuck anybody's yum.
Don't tell somebody what you
would do in the situation,
because you weren't in it.
The only time that that--
even amongst survivors,
I should not tell Cristian
what he should do at home
for self-care, right?
I hear what he says,
and we exchange in that way.
But those condescending
questions and,
"Have you considered
a mental institution?"
"Have you considered
medication?"
"Have you tried
writing a poem?"
Like, we know these things.
These are very generic.
I understand the intention
in trying to help,
but it comes off as
stigmatizing.
And also, don't be too pushy
with your friends,
especially when they come out.
Like Cristian said,
the friend you knew is not the
same friend
that's gonna come out.
It will be the same Melanie
but it won't be
the same mindset
because all that we knew
just got broken down.
So you may or may not
be very frustrated at times,
I'm gonna be very honest,
because when we're--
when we come out of the life,
we're trying to battle ourselves
with what we thought we knew
and what our traffickers
ingrained in our head.
So don't take personally
if your friend cancels on you,
or doesn't respond
to your texts,
or doesn't want to talk to you,
or doesn't spend as much time.
Those things come--
those are symptoms
of mental health in general,
especially people
with depression, anxiety,
but it's amplified when
you're coming out of the life.
So just watch what questions
you ask.
Don't--don't be too intrusive.
I know when I had to testify
for grand jury,
that's one of the first things
they said:
"How many people
did you sleep with a night?"
It's always the curiosity.
Curb your curiosity
and respect the person's
experience.
That's--we don't want
to talk about
how many people were forced
to rape us every night.
That's not what
we want to talk about.
If anything, we want you to
bring something else
to the conversation,
'cause we're tired of talking
about what we just went
through.
So just be mindful of
your questions.
Don't ask things that are
really, really elementary,
like, "Have you considered
therapy?"
Don't tell them what you would
do and be mindful
of that pushiness, because our
traffickers and sex buyers
are already pushing, so we're
gonna be very hyper-sensitive
to someone telling us
what to do
and then we might have
an outburst as a reaction
and that can be taken a very--
very different way.
So do those things, be mindful,
and like Cristian said,
educate yourself.
It is not our job
to tell you about
what trafficking looks like
after we came out of it.
Yeah, can I just say again?
I know we've said it again
and I'm gonna say it
multiple times--
thank you guys so, so much
for speaking about this
and this experience.
Thank you for this platform.
This is so necessary,
- and I think that...
- Yes.
...this conversation
has extended.
I would say I know that.
I know we're, like,
probably watching the clock
right now,
but it was so imperative
and there's so many questions
across the world
about trafficking
and "Saving Zoe" was a film
that opened--
or at least touched upon
this subject
and opened the eyes to so many
people's curiosities,
and this conversation, to me,
is just flowing naturally.
- I'm very grateful for that.
- Yes.
To be honest, for us,
we're like,
we want it as long as possible,
because there are
so many different facets.
There are
so many different aspects
and, you know, we're not
gonna be able to
solve and cover everything
today, but I think it's
what we've been saying--
it's having that conversation,
having these conversations.
It's so necessary.
Well, we're gonna end
on that note right now.
Thank you all for watching
part 3.
Part 4 will be posted tomorrow.
