Sihong: Hi my name is Sihong Peng.
I'm your host for the Minepreneur podcast
show where I interview successful entrepreneurs
in hopes to inspire more and more people in
the corporate world or they're starting up
to think like an entrepreneur and make a difference
in their world.
So, joining me today is Naeem Ahmed.
Naeem is the founder and CEO of Clickmox based
in Sudbury, Canada.
Clickmox is best known for its industry leading
drone survey system for underground mining
application.
In the underground mining world, often we
face the challenges of no light or very low
visibility and there's no GPS signal for navigation.
So today we will learn how Neem and his team
tackled the challenge and build a successful
business on it.
His work even gets noticed by NASA recently.
We will also learn how a theoretical physicist
with an intrinsic interest in general relativity
and up in the dark world of underground mining
so theoretical physics number one in the most
prestigious university in Pakistan.
SNOLAB for a particle detection, all those
experiences are really fascinating to me so
welcome Naeem.
Naeem: Thank you very much.
Thanks for having me.
Sihong: You’re welcome.
I’ll let you introduce yourself.
Naeem: As Sihong said, I started as a as a
theoretical physicist and then went through
different cycles of working in different fields
of physics, starting with general relativity
all the way to astroparticle physics and then
moved to the mining industry.
Sihong: wow that's quite a span of experience.
If you don't mind me asking what was your
Clickmox revenue for the past 12 months.
Naeem: We have actually surpassed one million
dollars.
We are on our way to go three times this year.
Sihong: Three times this year?
Wow, that is a very ambitious goal and very
great growth.
Naeem: Yes, absolutely.
We have been very fortunate to have been able
to build a good clientele, the people who
trust us and our products and also our services.
Sihong: That is great.
Remind me when you started the business.
Naeem: We started in 2014.
Sihong: Now it’s only five years and you're
into the seven figure league already.
Congrats.
Naeem: Thank you very much.
Sihong: Great job there.
Where are these revenues from because you
were saying this year you expect three times
of growth?
Naeem: In previous years most of our revenue
was coming from services.
Now our products have matured and we have
actually started selling our products so that's
where most of the revenue is coming from now.
We are actually making more sales than before
and that's the growth we are looking at continuing
in the next year.
Sihong: Maybe tell us a little bit about your
products and services that you mentioned earlier.
What products and what services do you offer
for our audience members that probably don't
know Clickmox all that well yet?
Naeem: We have been focusing primarily on
underground mining.
There was a need when we started working in
this sector.
We found out that there is a need of scanning
and mapping of inaccessible areas.
There was no product that could efficiently,
quickly and safely scan and map, for example,
open stopes or caved in areas.
We came up with a drone based solution and
laser scanner that we designed ourselves that
was able to perform these scans while the
drone is moving.
The traditional systems where the system has
to be stationary was not really useful for
that kind of scanning and mapping.
That was our kind of niche.
Sihong: You can send a drone in without having
to put any person in jeopardy or unsafe conditions
because of the possibility of a say, ground
failure or things like that.
Naeem: Exactly so safety is the biggest thing
of course.
Then if you can faithfully reconstruct a stope,
it has a high value for mining operations.
We provided services in this sector and then
we were able to very quickly go in other sectors
in the underground mine as well even general-purpose
scanning and mapping because the LiDARs or
the laser scanners that we developed are much
faster and quicker and much easier to use
than the traditional laser scanners that were
being used in the mining industry.
Sihong: That's a very impressive research
and development done at Clickmox in house
here, but we will get into that a little bit
later.
But when you started out Clickmox it didn't
start with a drone survey.
I guess in 2014 drone wasn't really that mature
for industrial applications so maybe tell
us about when you first started.
What did you start with?
Naeem: We started with a project for Rio Tinto
in Indonesia and they wanted us to advise
them on how to do convergence monitoring in
pillars of the block cave mine.
We came up with two different solutions.
One was a solution that was based on geotechnical
monitoring sensors and which was a little
bit expensive for them; and the other solution
was using a laser scanner.
The idea is that you do a scan and then you
come back and do another scan and make a comparison,
make a difference calculation to see if see
there's a convergence on the ground or not.
We started, since at that time we didn't have
our own scanner, so we started with an existing
scanner, an existing product out of the UK.
But very quickly we realized that there were
a lot of limitations of that product.
We thought that instead of going to that company
and asking them to make a product that would
fit our requirements why not build our own
scanner.
That's how we came up with this idea of a
new LiDAR.
Sihong: We’ll actually talk in detail about
that a little later but you said in our pre-interview
that when growing up you didn’t expect yourself
to be doing business at all and now you have
built this very successful business in such
a short amount of time.
What inspired you to start or what was in
your mind when you decided to start Clickmox?
Naeem: Of course, I never thought of starting
a business.
I always wanted to, when I was growing up
to be, to work in the sciences, pure sciences,
physics and mathematics.
But then when I came to Sudbury and i started
working in the mining sector there were a
lot of problems especially in the underground
mining sector that I was able to identify,
and I thought that I can potentially solve
those problems.
Sihong: With your knowledge and skills.
Naeem: Yes with the knowledge of sensor development,
system development, process development, mathematics
so and if you're doing a job for some other
company you don't really have that kind of
autonomy and freedom to do whatever you want.
I thought that let's do what I want to do
myself and see how how it goes.
Sihong: You have this idea that yes, maybe
I can solve those problems.
But said running a business is never only
about having an idea.
There are so many other things that could
go wrong that's why probably stat show that
a majority of business when they started,
they fail within probably the first couple
years.
Were you fearful or did you have any doubts
in your mind before you actually started?
Naeem: Of course, I had fears.
I had never done a business before so I didn't
know what it would take to start and run a
business.
But then of course, Canada is a very a business-friendly
country so there's a lot of help and advice
available in the government sector and also
in the private sector.
So I was able to use some of the resources
available for businesses to start the business.
Of course, the biggest hurdle in starting
a new business is the availability of cash.
That was something which was a very, very
big struggle in the beginning.
But then once we were able to go over that
obstacle, then it became much easier later
on.
Yes, you're right.
I had the doubts.
I didn't know what will happen.
But my brother, I consulted him and he's a
businessman.
He said that you can do whatever but just
don't give up.
It is the persistence that makes people successful.
He said, that is not going to be easy.
Nobody is going to come to you and say that
okay, you have this problem I'll solve it.
You'll have to solve your problems but then
just keep on doing what you want to do.
Sihong: Does your brother also run a successful
business in Canada?
Naeem: No, he is in Pakistan.
He’s not in Canada but he is running his
own business.
Sihong: I guess the business is in your genes.
Naeem: Yes, you could say that but my father
was not a business person.
He was in military.
He was in the Air Force.
Most of my cousins and others in Pakistan
and also abroad they're all doing their jobs.
Nobody that I know is in a business except
for my brother.
Sihong: What do you think are the core values
that you and probably your brother that have
learned from your father?
Naeem: First of all, you have to be very honest.
You have to be I have to be honest to yourself.
You have to be honest to your clients.
This is the utmost important thing; and the
second thing is that you have to believe in
your products, because if you don't believe
in your products yourself then you won't be
able to be successful in making others believe.
Together these two things are I think, the
core, very, very important for any business
to be successful.
Sihong: Let’s talk about a little bit about
your pre-entrepreneurial life.
I was really fascinated when we were doing
the pre-interview and I discovered so much
about you.
Maybe let's start with your university.
You were admitted to one of the most prestigious
nuclear engineering program in Pakistan.
Tell me about that.
You were one of the, how many students…
Naeem: A lot of students apply for that, about
10,000 and they have, they select one hundred
out of those.
You have to go through a written test and
a very comprehensive interview process that
you have to go through.
Then even after there is a 50% failure rate
in that even after getting to that university
about half, more than half of the students
actually fail within the first year or quit.
A lot of them quit as well because it's extremely
hard, extremely heard.
It’s very demanding.
Sihong: Those are the top students, the smartest
kids in the country that got admitted and
you still need to work that hard to get through
the program.
Naeem: I mean smartest, the ones who really
want to get into the nuclear field out of
those but there are of course other kids in
chemistry and physics who are probably smarter
than them.
Sihong: But to me nuclear engineering is like
rocket science.
It requires so much brainpower.
It is amazing so what do you think was some
of the lessons that you learned from that
experience, the university life so competitive,
so hard work?
Naeem: Very competitive and then just keep
on working hard.
That's the first lesson they teach.
The curriculum was designed to make students
work hard, the way it was designed and they
would teach physics, mathematics and the systems
engineering, the electronics, the nuclear,
all those different courses about nuclear
physics and nuclear engineering, how to design
a nuclear power plant core, how to do transient
analysis.
There was a lot that we had to learn.
Sihong: Very hardcore, engineering science
training.
You graduated with distinction.
Naeem: Yes, I was fortunate enough to a distinction
gold medal from there.
Sihong: Out of so many students you’ve got
a gold medal but what happened after that?
Naeem: After that I was actually, I got a
faculty position in the same institute.
So I started teaching there.
Then my boss, he once said that okay well,
I think you should go abroad.
You should go to US.
He said that there's a professor coming, and
he says he wants a student and I have recommended
your name.
Why don't you go there and study there?
I said that well, I mean I don't want to go.
I don't want to leave my family here.
That professor came and he actually offered
me, and I said no to him from University of
Albany.
Later on, I kind of regretted that.
But then after about a year working there
I said that “well, nuclear is probably not
the field that I want to continue working
on for various reasons.”
I did not feel that creating nuclear waste
is good for environment, good for people.
Of course, a lot of people disagreed with
me and still do but that's how I thought.
I didn’t really want to continue so I talked
to my boss and he said that well, why didn't
you then get this scholarship and go do PhD
somewhere in the field that you like.
Sihong: What is the filed that you chose?
Naeem: Physics so there was a government scholarship
program and you had to write a GRE and this
and that, all that and interview.
I was lucky enough to get that scholarship
as well, so I went to Germany to Siegen University.
Then I wanted to do theoretical physics because
that's what I was and still am passionate
about.
But then the professor over there said that
he would recommend going to experimental high
energy physics because there were very little
job opportunities in theory.
The funding for theory has been in the decline
for the past couple of decades actually more
than that so it has been unfortunate all over
the world.
Sihong: You went to Germany and did your studies
there.
After you finished your studies you worked
at the Max-Planck Institute.
Tell me about that.
Naeem: Before I was finished, I was offered
a position at Max Planck-Institute of Physics.
Sihong: For people that don’t know about
Max Planck Institute of Physics, I did a research
online so Max Planck Institute for Physics
is actually a physics institute in Munich,
Germany that specializes in high energy physics
and astroparticle physics.
In October 1917 the institute was officially
founded in Berlin.
Albert Einstein was actually the first head
director so very impressive, very prestigious
institute there for sure.
Naeem: I was very lucky to get that position
over there.
I was working on very high-end electronic
development as well as some of the experimental
particle physics.
So I was a part of the group that was working
on the HERA-B experiment at Desy in Hamburg.
I've worked there for about a year.
It was an excellent experience, very good.
Sihong: What was your biggest learning from
that?
You mentioned electronics and then software
maybe.
Naeem: The electronics that we were working
on over there was fairly complicated.
It's very deep analog pipelines and digital
circuitry that was very challenging to develop.
We were developing that electronics for the
HERA-B experiment for the central tracker
of the experiment.
Sihong: That was fairly early stage of computer
or internet or software sensor interface.
Naeem: That's right.
Sihong: That is so cool.
You did some pioneering work in terms of interfacing
hardware or sensors with software and controls.
Naeem: Then we were working on the zero at
first and then second level triggers for the
electronics because what happens is that when
you have a particle anti-particle collision
you got a lot of particles and you can't really
analyze all the particles.
You have to work on triggers to remove the
data that you don't want to analyze.
Because the collisions happen very, very fast,
you are looking at sub-nanosecond and sometimes
femtosecond timing circuitry.
So very challenging electronics as well as
the software.
Sihong: That reminds me of my physics and
chemistry from university.
Later then you went on to work in the States
before you actually bumped into the small
town called Sudbury.
Naeem: It’s been quite a journey.
So I was offered a position at Fermilab in
the US.
Fermilab in the US, actually all over the
world, is one of the premier institutes of
experimental high energy physics.
Sihong: It was actually the largest high energy
lab in the world until I think 2007, 2008
when they had the new one in Europe.
Naeem: Yes, the Large Hadron Collider, LHC
so before LHC this was the highest energy
proton anti-proton collider.
Sihong: What did you do there?
Naeem: I was actually hired by a Dutch research
organization called FOM and they sent me to
the US.
I was in charge of the safety system of the
central cracker of the system.
My job was to first design the safety system,
and then kind of remain in charge of that
until the end of my contract or the experiment.
Sihong: Okay, I see and that's when someone
actually approached you from Sudbury SNOLAB.
Naeem: Yes, it’s kind of funny.
Somebody came from Sudbury and I was showing
them around and then they said that let's
go for a cup of coffee…
Sihong: Before that you probably were wondering
where is Sudbury.
Naeem: I had no idea where Sudbury was.
I had actually already had two offers.
One from California, the other from Michigan
for jobs that I was considering on both of
those jobs at that point.
The guy came and he said that, one of the
professors actually and he said that why don't
you, have you ever heard of Sudbury?
I said, no I have no idea.
Why don't you come and have a look and maybe
you would like to come and work with us.
I said okay, why not?
I came to Sudbury and I really hated the city.
It was winter so what can you expect?
Then the lab, the lab was absolutely awesome.
Sihong: I guess that's what had kept you here
even though I think you mentioned in our pre-interview
it took a 50% pay cut from Fermilab.
Naeem: I had to take 50% pay cut.
Sihong: It’s a pretty tough decision.
Naeem: Yes, but I talked to my wife.
She has always been very, very supportive
and I said that I mean I can take this job
at Michigan or California.
Sihong: Or we can go north to Canada.
Naeem: Colder climate and then we won’t
be able to afford two cars anymore and we
will probably live in a smaller apartment.
She said that well, I mean if that's what
you want to do, if that's what you like to
do then let's go for it.
I have no problems with that.
So we came here and I loved it actually.
When I came here somebody at the lab said
that Sudbury is a city that grows on you.
Then he said like fungus.
It’s kind of funny.
Sihong: SNOLAB is a neutrino observation laboratory
located underground here at a local mine here
in Sudbury.
I guess that's when you first got exposed
to underground or to mining.
Naeem: Yes, that is correct.
That was my first experience in an underground
mine, also very rough environment, of course,
but the lab itself was of course one of the
cleanest places on Earth, SNOLAB.
Sihong: Because they want to have absolute
zero interference or pollution.
Naeem: Zero contamination, zero pollution
so I mean you go through that extremely rough
environment.
You walk through that tunnel and then you
go to the cleanest lab in the world.
It was quite an experience.
I loved it.
Sihong: Then soon the experimenter came to
an end at SNOLAB.
Naeem: In about five years, I worked there
for five years and the experiment ended.
I talked to somebody in Sudbury and he was
running a company that was developing high-end
technologies for underground mines but actually
for the mining for the future mining.
Sihong: Some sort of a communication device.
Naeem: They had different projects and one
of them was a project in which they were trying
to see if it is possible to communicate using
visible light in underwater.
The reason why they wanted to do was because
they wanted to see if it is possible to safely
do mining underwater because right now all
the systems that we have use cables and those
cables tangled up very quickly.
It is very difficult to have high throughput
using sonar systems because those are highly
Limited in bandwidth.
We were lucky enough.
We developed a system very, very quickly visible
light based because there is a very narrow
range of the spectrum that starts from blue
all the way to green where the attenuation
in water is the least.
Sihong: So it can travel far.
Naeem: That is why we see water as either
blue or green because those are the colors
that go deepest in water.
We used green LED's actually to build that
communication system.
We were able to get 10 megahertz, 10 megabit
per second actually.
Sihong: That is a lot of bandwidth.
Naeem: We were actually transferring video
underwater and sound and video.
Sihong: I think I've seen one of those devices
that you mentioned at the facility there.
It’s just amazing some of the engineering
and communication technology that’s put
in place.
But then after that project you moved on to
your next role.
Naeem: There was a company called Mining Technologies
International.
At that time, they were the biggest manufacturer
of underground mining machinery in Canada.
Fairly big company, Sudbury based but they
had offices in other countries as well.
I was made in charge of the automation department
in that company because what they wanted to
do is to move away from manually operated
machinery and actually turn them into an autonomous,
semi-autonomous or autonomous.
For example, drill boom jumbos.
They started this program and they gave me
the charge of that.
That was a lot of interesting work in robotics.
Sihong: Machine sensor software interfacing.
Naeem: And also, mathematics for robotics.
Sihong: Absolutely.
It’s the core behind.
Naeem: Inverse kinematics, it is not that
easy because you don't really get a unique
solution.
You get multiple solutions and then you have
to figure out a solution to go for.
We were working on our second project to develop
a fully autonomous nine-axis drill boom jumbo.
We said that the first step is develop the
mathematics for that and the second step would
be to do simulations.
The third step would to actually build the
system.
Sihong: Which is a very cost-effective approach
to tackle automation.
Naeem: Exactly.
So we built the mathematics and then when
the mathematics was done then we did the simulations.
We wrote the simulation code.
Then when that was done, we wrote the actual
controls code.
Right then we were getting ready to implement
on the machine, the company went into financial
trouble and it was bought by another company.
Sihong: I think it was bought by Joy Global.
Naeem: Now it’s another company that bought
Joy Global.
At that point I said that, I mean I've been
going from one job to the next.
I know that I can contribute a lot to the
mining industry because there are problems
that I know exist and not many people are
looking at solving them so how about I start
my own business.
Sihong: Let's pause for a second there.
Basically you were let go three times not
willingly but because of a something that's
totally beyond your control.
Also you mentioned it was a very emotional
moment when you were let go by MTI because
something happened in the family.
Naeem: Yes, it was an emotional moment and
I wasn't expecting that because on the same,
actually the day before I was in a meeting
with the owner of the company.
We were discussing future plans on what are
we going to do and how we are going to do
that.
The next day I was visited by the manager
of the whole engineering and he said that
you know we are in deep financial trouble.
We just have to close the whole automation
department.
Actually they laid off a lot of people, a
lot of people who they thought were working
on future projects.
They were let go.
Some of them were in the company for a very
long time as well so it was a very emotional
moment also because on the same day we had
a death in the family, actually my mother-in-law
so it was a difficult time for sure.
Sihong: It was a very emotional.
I guess that's probably one of the lowest
moments in your career, in your life because
I remember when I was, actually after I graduated
from university here in Canada.
Before that I did my bachelor's degree in
China and I started to look for a job, just
one job and I wasn't really trying to pick
a location.
As long as someone offered me a job, I would
be happy.
But I kept searching.
It took me months and I probably applied for
hundreds of jobs but there is basically nothing,
no events.
I probably got one interview or two here and
there, but nothing materialized.
I remember very vividly this one night I was
going to the CIM conference in Montreal and
hoping to find some opportunities there.
I was staying at this family hotel run by
this gentleman.
I was staying at a room with 12 beds basically
like a university dorm.
I was sleeping in one of the beds.
I was looking at the ceiling and I was like
“wow, this is so hard.
Language is not my strongest suit and in social
setting I can’t talk to people because I
don't have the same cultural background.”
I was just doubting myself: really am I capable
of doing anything?
I remember that was really hard, because I
totally had no control over what I want to
do next.
So I can totally relate to you when you said
whenever someone wanted to let you go they
didn't even think twice.
Naeem: One thing that you were asking in the
beginning about the business and how it should
be run.
There's one more thing that for some reason
people have been forgetting that it's people
who actually make businesses successful.
It’s the workers.
For some reason the empathy and the humanity
that we should have in our companies we are
for some reason, we are losing that.
This is just something that I have experienced
and also while talking to some of my peers
in other businesses that for some people are
being looked as a computer, as a number.
What they think is there are plenty of people
available to do anything, so it doesn't matter.
What we forget is that it's people.
They have their own families.
They might perform on a certain day or in
a certain week or in a certain month because
they might have some problems going on, some
issues that they might be dealing with and
we have to be considerate about that.
This is something I think back in the old
days there was a concept of building loyalty
in business.
That loyalty is being lost now because the
concept is very simple.
If an employee wants to cheat you, they will
find a million ways to do that.
What I asked everybody, also my peers is when
you are running a business keep that in mind.
If somebody is deliberately trying to cheat
you, that is a different story.
If you are letting somebody go so that you
can make you know maybe $20,000 more in a
year that doesn't make sense.
To me it doesn't make sense.
Sihong: I hear you.
The human touch instead of just focusing on
the numbers.
Naeem: We are all family.
I mean I've been very extremely fortunate
to still have the same people who are there
with me in the beginning.
Sihong: I think that is one of the major ingredients
in success because the team that you started
with have been sticking with you since the
beginning.
Having a great idea, having the values, skills,
knowledge I guess isn't really enough to build
a business.
You've seen that at MTI, they have a great
idea about mining automation.
And I guess that was at a time when only probably
a handful of other people have seen the future
of automation in mining equipment.
So they have apparently a grand idea of automation
but they didn't survive the business world.
Did that make you feel, maybe should I really
start this?
Naeem: l learned from their mistake.
I was sitting with the management all the
time, so I had a very clear idea of what the
mistakes that were being made.
I knew that for any business to survive as
you said just the idea is not enough.
You have to execute very precisely and very
thoughtfully.
Also you need to understand that any business
requires revenue to survive.
You have to find ways to increase, to sell,
to provide services to increase your revenue.
That's another thing that I learned that some
companies they start with a grand idea and
they get some kind of funding and they start
and develop something but takes them four,
five, seven, eight years to go to market.
By that time, they have used up all of their
resources, the employees are not happy.
That's what I learned.
I said, okay the best way to move forward
is to of course keep on doing the research
and development, but then also provide services
so that we can generate revenue.
We can bring money into the company.
Sihong: I think that is a very critical lesson
here.
A lot of times we tend to try to develop something
that's perfect before we can even talk about
it or show anyone, but you took a very different
approach.
You start with something as long initially
it can work or serve a certain clientele then
you go show it to your clients.
I think that's a very agile approach when
it comes to business dealing but I want when
you start a business there is apparently the
execution that you mentioned but also accounting,
legal, finance, funding and all those jazz,
the fun stuff that you have to take care of.
Did you have someone to guide you through
this or you’re just the kind of I'm going
to figure it out myself?
Naeem: Unfortunately not, these things I had
to actually figure out myself.
Of course, there were resources available
from the government sector but in terms of
accounting for example.
In the beginning I was pretty much doing everything
myself because at that time we couldn't hire
anybody to do that.
Of course, there's a company that takes care
of that but at that time we had nothing.
Along the way it was good for me because I
was able to understand how all of this mumbo
jumbo accounting works; otherwise I wouldn't
have any idea.
Now if they say this is that and that is that
now I can wrap my head around what they're
trying to say.
Sihong: I think that's probably typically
a myth when it comes to entrepreneurship:
they tend to think I just want to quit my
job so that I don't have to do this thing.
I can’t do whatever I like or whatever I
want but it turns out that you actually need
to take care of a lot of more things than
say you were taking a job because like you
said, if you don't do that then nobody will.
I can see from your pre-entrepreneurial life
that you have been building this knowledge
and skills for example, how to work with sensors,
how to work with interfacing, software, coding,
mathematics, it seems that you are building
naturally towards this funnel of building
a sensor-based technology.
I think that's how you started.
You mentioned Clickmox started with the sensors
for that mining company in Indonesia but then
you found out that the sensor you got from
off-the-shelf or the market didn't quite work
well.
Walk us through that why is it not working
well.
Naeem: Okay so there were two issues.
One of them was that it was a mobile scanner,
but they wanted, the mining company or us
to send data, to upload data onto their server
and they would process and then give us the
map.
Sihong: How long does that process typically
take?
Naeem: The process is fast.
It just takes maybe 10 to 15 minutes provided
you can upload data quickly.
Sihong: That was about six, seven years ago.
Naeem: Yes.
The mine site they were and I still think
are using satellite internet connection which
is extremely…
Sihong: They had very limited bandwidth and
very expensive.
Naeem: So they just said that okay, this is
something that's not going to work for us.
I said maybe you just can't do that and even
if they could they said that we will never
send our data to any other server because
of privacy issues.
I tried to negotiate with the company, but
they had a business model where there was
no other option.
Sihong: Okay because they were probably the
only one in the market that can do that at
that time.
That project stopped then your income basically
stopped.
What next?
Naeem: The next of course, we did have some
leftover money from that project.
Sihong: Good financial planning there by the
way.
Naeem: Then we were fortunate enough to get
another project from Glencore, from Nickel
Rim South to develop another technology for
borehole scanning and clearance.
Sihong: How did you get to approach a big
corporation like that, a big giant mining
company?
Naeem: I met with the director of the mine.
I called him up and set up an appointment.
I went to him and I asked him is there a problem
that needs to be solved that we can help you
with.
He said, yes of course.
We do have a problem.
Sihong: That is very brave just walking into
the director’s office without even knowing
the problems or without a solution.
You just want to understand their struggles.
Naeem: So we got that small project.
The first step was to build, actually design
the system.
So we designed the system.
And then the next step was to actually build
the system, but unfortunately that building
part funding didn't go forward because they
had other priorities.
They said that we will come back to it later
on and right now I would want you guys to
work on a scanning and mapping system for
old passes and stopes.
I received a letter from the director that
this is our priority so can you look at that
instead of this for now.
We said, okay well we can do scanning and
mapping of an old ore pass but we need to
mount a scanner on a drone and fly the drone.
There was no system available at that point.
All these, the scanning systems that were
available were stationary scanning systems
except for the ones that we were using for
the Grasberg Project.
But that system was way too heavy.
Sihong: The reason you thought you had to
use a drone to carry the scanner was because?
Naeem: Because nobody could go there or can
go there in a stope.
If you want to scan a stope, one way is to
mount a scanner on a big post and then slide
the scanner in there but then you get all
kinds of shadows.
Sihong: That's where most of companies plan
their cavities monitoring survey.
It's a fixed-point survey like you said, if
there is irregular shape within the stope,
within the opening and then you'll get (shadows).
Because it is light based, you couldn't get
past that obstacle then you get shadows.
Naeem: Exactly.
So we said, well we can use a drone but there
was no scanner, scanning system available
that can be carried with drone.
We said, let's build one ourselves then.
We set out as we do in research and development,
we set out a very specific set of criteria
that needs to be fulfilled.
That is how much the weight should be, the
battery life and the accuracy and the resolution
and the range and all of that.
Then we started that project.
Sihong: That project was funded by still the
mining company Xstrata?
Naeem: That project was partly funded by some
of the money that was for the other project
and that was left over because they said that
they would like us to work on this project
instead.
At that point we also because we had already
started providing services with the previous
scanner from the other company.
Sihong: So you were still providing services
with the market scanner.
Naeem: Because we didn't have our own scanner.
I remember we got a project from an Australian
company, but for a project to be done here
in Sudbury, for example.
There were some other smaller projects here
and there.
One of the projects for us was in BC, British
Columbia.
But by that time we had already developed
the first version of our scanner, scanning
system.
Sihong: Before you jumped into that, the development
of your scanner, maybe let's just step back
a little bit.
At that time the funding basically had stopped
to from the Rio Tinto research fund and then
also Xstrata, I believe at some point the
funding dried up because apparently the downturn
in mining economy but despite all that you
still decided to develop your own scanner.
What was the thinking behind?
Where is the money from?
Naeem: The thinking was a survival instinct.
We knew that if we kept on going with the
other scanning system the limitations are
going to be like that, unless they will change
their business model, unless they redesigned
their system, which I we had no control.
We didn't really see a big market for that,
even for services.
It was kind of a matter of survival that either
we develop the system or we just go and do
something else.
Sihong: You realize that probably would be
the market need but where is the funding from?
Naeem: Like I said there was some leftover
money of course.
We were getting some smaller, small contracts
here and there.
Sihong: Okay so at the same time you were
getting revenue by providing services.
Naeem: I have always been extremely very aggressive
in terms of going to clients.
Sihong: Tell us about that.
Naeem: I will just pick up the phone and start
calling people that okay, we provide this
service.
Do you want something done?
Most of the people would say no but some would
say yes.
I actually calculated the response rate where
I talked.
It was pretty good actually 10%.
Sihong: 10%.
So out of the 10 phone calls you closed one
deal.
Naeem: One deal in the beginning but those
were small projects, very small projects,
a few thousand dollars here and there, but
enough for us to keep on going.
Sihong: Again, it’s very important to test
your idea even though it's a small monetary
value.
It helps you validate your idea in the market
that maybe this is something that people don't
want or this is something with a high demand.
For example, the scanner that you’re talking
about.
That could be a high demand in the market.
Naeem: Once you go and use some other system
and you tell them that okay, we are using
some other system, but we are developing our
own system which is going to be better in
so many ways.
Sihong: You talked about sales and marketing,
can you tell us a story, the most memorable
one probably when someone said no and, that
I think you mentioned in our pre-interview,
that even though when someone said no to you,
you just kept calling them.
Maybe one day you need our service.
Naeem: Whenever I would call somebody I would
in my mind I would always know that they definitely
need the service or product.
Sihong: You have done your research prior.
Naeem: Yes because if I know for example that
this company or this person they do not need
our services or product then I don't call
them again because I don't really like to
push for something that they don't need but
if for example they have a need, but they
are skeptical, for example.
Then I will go back to them and I said okay,
just give us a chance.
Let's do a test run.
Let's do it for free.
If they have budget problems and then I say,
that let's work together on we can reduce
the costs.
We can pay for the travel ourselves, things
like that.
Sihong: You are really there as a service
provider trying to resolve their problem,
not put money first, but with a service mindset.
Naeem: Even today when clients you know some
of the clients, they talk to me and they say,
that okay the system is this much and that
is expensive we always work with them.
Let’s look at your budget.
Let’s look at what we can do.
And the important thing is that you get your
product or service and you’re happy with
that.
That is the most important thing.
Sihong: Tell us the biggest challenges there
when you started developing your own scanner.
I guess you have to basically start from scratch.
That requires knowledge, testing, probably
people as well and then patience.
Naeem: Yes, of course.
As I said I was very lucky to have the people
we have right now Justin Gagnon, Jieyu Wang.
They have always felt kind of ownership here
in the company.
They always come up with new ideas: okay we
have this problem let's try this, let's try
that.
If there's a problem with the algorithm let's
try that.
If there's a problem with the code, let's
try that with the mechanical system.
Sihong: Do they have actual ownership through
equity or anything at Clickmox?
Naeem: No.
Sihong: But they have that sense of ownership
because you care about your employees like
you mentioned earlier.
Naeem: They care about me, about the company
same way.
It just goes both ways.
Sihong: That is great culture in your company.
Let’s talk about hiring.
When did you start building your team?
Is that when you decided to hire people when
I want to develop the scanner or you have
a team already before that?
Naeem: The team was already there, because,
of course, we were providing some services
before that.
The team was already there.
We started with, of course, there were some
iterations.
We started with some something else, a different
kind of a scanning system.
Then we moved to what we have now.
Sihong: When you decided to hire people I
guess from the market what was on your mind?
Basically you are handing over a portion of
your business that you are excellent at to
someone that you basically have no idea about.
What was going on your mind?
I just want to dig deep into that.
Naeem: The most important thing for me was
that the people who work for the company are
passionate about this this type of work.
I'm a very hands-on person.
I do everything.
I do soldering.
Sihong: I can see that.
Every time when I came to office you're busy
with something in your hand.
Naeem: I write software.
I do everything and that is what I wanted
from the people.
Sihong: So you hire on passion first.
Naeem: Yes.
Passion and belief in the company and their
products and the services.
I asked a few friends and also I'm also a
teacher.
I always like to work with younger people
because they are enthusiastic about learning.
That was my idea.
I wanted to hire fresh graduates so that we
can learn together and build the team from
scratch.
Sihong: So that's how you started building
your team and then the team started working
on the research and development projects for
the scanner.
How did that go?
Naeem: It went really well.
When I wrote everything down the requirements
and so from my past project management experience,
I thought it would take about18 months, about
a year and a half to finish that.
They were able to finish the first version
within I think within the sixth or eighth
month so very impressive.
I was very happy with that so that.
Sihong: It would put your product on the market
much sooner than you anticipated and then
started, is that when you started generating
revenue from the scanner?
Naeem: Actually, at that point we were not
selling.
We didn't start selling because what we wanted
to do is to first test the equipment ourselves
very aggressively.
What we started doing was to, we started using
our equipment in our service contracts.
Only then we became comfortable that okay,
this works in underground mines, that we started
selling.
Sihong: Basically, you were using your own
prototype or products to test in a real life
environments and then see if this works.
Maybe you take notes from here and there this
doesn’t work, that works and then you come
back to the office and revise the design and
change the parameters.
Is that how it works?
Naeem: Yes, absolutely and not just working
because we knew that the system works in principle
but all those smaller details.
You are in the mining industry you know how
things work underground.
It’s a very rough environment in terms of
the agility of the system, in terms of what
happens if you have a spraying water, what
happens if there's a lot of dust, what happens
if somebody drops it on the floor, all those
smaller things, how easy it is for somebody
to learn, how easy is it for somebody to do
a small repair on this part and all those
small things that that we learned over the
years.
Sihong: That is when you were still kind of
doing services.
Were you profitable at that time?
Naeem: No, we were not profitable.
We were barely surviving.
Sihong: So this was probably a couple years
into the business already and you're still
not making money.
What was your wife saying about this?
Naeem: Absolutely supportive.
My wife and my children they have always been
extremely supportive.
They said that you have to make it work.
Sihong: You have how many kids?
Naeem: Three.
Sihong: You have three kids and then were
you taking a salary from the company?
Naeem: No, I was not but I was teaching part-time.
Sihong: You were teaching part-time to supplement,
for the family.
Naeem: And my wife has also been teaching
at Laurentian part time.
Sihong: That is how you managed financially
because still bills have to be paid.
You have to put in extracurricular activities.
That makes sense.
After that you refined your scanner and then
you finally came to a stage where this is
a product that we can probably sell on the
market or some company can just use the scanner
and do their own scan.
How did you find your first customer?
Naeem: Let me think who our first customer
was.
Let me try to remember.
Sihong: Or one of the first clients that you
managed to persuade that this is a new thing
but I think this is…
Naeem: I think the first clients was a company
in China, now I remember, so they bought three
scanners from us.
Sihong: Just curious, how did you reach a
client on the other side of the world?
Naeem: We met them in PDAC.
Then we built our relationship and then we
went to China.
We signed a contract and they bought three
scanners from us.
We wanted to move to building a lot more scanners
for the Chinese market but then later on it
didn't work out on pricing issue.
We couldn't make to work.
Sihong: That is one of your first clients.
And then after that fell through you still
got to survive.
You still got to sell your products.
Where did you go next?
Naeem: Our next customer was our distributor
in South America, in Peru.
Sihong: How did you approach them?
Naeem: Actually, there is a trade show called
Perumin.
It’s a very big mining show in Peru.
We went there with the Canadian delegation.
Sihong: Is that sponsored by the government?
Naeem: The part of the money actually comes
from the government and then you still have
to pay for your travel, for the booth and
everything.
You still have to invest money to use that
service.
We went there.
The Ministry of Northern Development and Mines
were there and they introduced us to a very
large distributor in Peru.
We talked about the product.
They were very excited about the product because
they knew what the problems were in the underground
mines but it took almost a year to close the
deal.
Sihong: Why did it take so long?
Naeem: Because one of the issues was that
they wanted us to come at our own expense
and do demos at different mines.
At that point we didn't have resources to
do that kind of…
Sihong: Is that when you went to the Pitch
2015 at NORCAT here where it’s kind of like
Dragon’s Den show where you went there and
pitch your idea and hopefully someone from
the panel would decide to invest in your company.
Naeem: That was before that.
Sihong: Tell us about that story.
Naeem: It’s an event that happens every
year.
They select I think four or five startups
to pitch their idea for investment.
I pitched an idea of a very low-cost laser
scanner, but unfortunately I didn't get any
investor from that show.
But the good thing was that I got a lot of
exposure.
Sihong: Right because there’s all the media
coverage.
Probably the panel members would regret today
knowing how well the company is doing now.
Naeem: I hope so.
Sihong: Then you developed your scanner.
You mentioned in Xstrata’s case when you
were doing the stope scanner you wanted to
do the drone survey.
At this time can you mount your scanner on
any market drone or do you have a drone solution?
Naeem: There was a company called 3DR.
They still exist but they don't make drones
anymore.
They had an open platform which means that
you can change the software and you can write
your own routines.
Sihong: It’s kind of like an open platform.
Naeem: We purchased that system and we started
working on that system but very soon we realized
that for various reasons I don't want to go
into that, the system was not suitable for
what we wanted to do.
Then we started using another platform that
was available off-the-shelf, again open platform.
The reason why we used the open platform was
because it allowed us to change a lot of things
in the hardware as well as software of the
drone.
Sihong: So what are the, I guess the biggest
challenges when you started modifying, developing
your own drone model to work with the scanner
for an underground environment.
Naeem: Well in underground environment one
of the key things is that the drone should
not be too big and it cannot be too small
because then its payload capacity will be
too low.
It should just be the right size and then
they should have good lighting.
The radio should be strong enough.
We modify the power of the radio instead of
25 millivolts which is the standard.
We go to 300 millivolts so that we have a
larger range and line of sight operation.
The other thing is the constraint, of course,
the payload capacity should be there.
There should be collision avoidance on the
system, configurable collision avoidance because
underground mining environment is different.
Sihong: Basically adaptive collision avoidance.
Naeem: The scanner should be mountable on
top and also at the bottom of the drone.
Sihong: Because you want to scan both ways.
Naeem: Yes, for example if you want to do
a top sill survey to look at undercuts so
you mount it at the bottom.
It should not set off a lot of dust.
There are all of these constraints that had
to be taken into consideration.
Sihong: What about navigation?
You mentioned collision avoidance but underground
there is no GPS signal as we understand.
Naeem: A navigation interface of going to
a fully autonomous system that we are currently
developing.
But at that time it was all manually operated.
Sihong: The operator has a console to see
real-time feed of the image and then control
from there.
Naeem: Exactly and it worked well for all
of our service contracts.
It worked really well.
There was no issue.
But now of course the trend is everybody is
talking about autonomous operations, bringing
people out of the mine so that is something
that we are aiming for as well.
But then there are of course a lot of if’s
and but’s there because you're talking about
a flying machine having a mind of its own
flying in narrow cavities with people around.
You have to be extremely careful in terms
of functional safety of the system.
The design has to be really perfect because
these propellers can really hurt people.
Sihong: How did you tackle that?
Naeem: We are tackling it right now.
Sihong: As you are going to a fully autonomous
system.
What are some of the challenges that you are
experiencing now as you are developing to
a fully autonomous model?
Naeem: The fully autonomous system that we
are working on is based on of course the expert
system with artificial intelligence built
in.
Sihong: That’s a buzzword by the way.
Naeem: It is a buzzword.
Everybody's doing that.
The reason of course is that the mining environment
is extremely different and also very hazardous.
It's extremely difficult to build a system
that is not based on expert system and have
all the parameters so finely tuned that no
accidents can happen.
This is very difficult.
It's much easier to build an expert system
and train it in the particular environment.
That training part of course is a bit challenging
because you need to have a 3D model of the
mine, different types of mining environments
which we can develop and we have actually,
tens, actually hundreds of models already
from our service contracts that we can utilize.
Sihong: You are talking about a simulation
environment or a physical kind of testing
environment.
Naeem: Whenever you do a scan you build a
model and you can use that model to train
the system.
It’s kind of a simulation of course because
you are giving some input and then you have
some outputs and you have a feedback.
It is continuously learning.
Sihong: That is the core of artificial intelligence,
machine learning so it's basically like teaching
a child how to do certain things.
You’ve got to teach the child the basics
and then the child can still develop language
skills, motor skills with their own mind.
What is your business model at this point?
You primarily provide services or you are
ready to generate significant amount of revenues
from your drone?
Naeem: From the sales, we are selling more
and more now compared to before.
But we also want to keep on providing services,
maybe at a smaller scale than what we are
doing, because we want to concentrate more
on developing products.
For example, we are working on a new product
for shaft scanning system that we permanently
on a skip, on the top of a skip and scan the
shaft as the skip is moving.
This is the kind of research and development
that we want to keep on doing.
Sihong: You got these directions of research
and development from clients’ feedback?
Naeem: Yes.
Most of these are now from the clients.
From Vale we have actually three projects
that are currently going on.
Sihong: That will keep you very busy.
Naeem: That's the thing.
It just takes a lot of time, and it becomes
difficult sometimes to concentrate on research
and development.
Sihong: Now at this stage you had this product
available for sale and you also provide services.
Your team is still a fairly small team.
So I heard from some customers that as you
grow, as you sell more products to these different
customers they might have all kinds of questions
or help or technical assistance requirements.
But with a small team they don't always feel
like they are well taken care of during the
process.
What's your take on that?
Naeem: You’re absolutely right.
I know that all of us are most of the times
are overworked.
As I said, I've been very fortunate.
These guys, they are putting in a lot of effort.
They know that this is a very crucial stage
of the company.
And once we are past this stage and we have
a larger revenue coming in, we can hire more
people and just develop a service department
that just takes care of that.
They have more time to concentrate on developing.
Sihong: You are recognizing the problem and
you have a roadmap.
Then at some point you landed a big contract
with a giant mining company here.
Tell us about that.
Naeem: We were asked to submit a request for
a quotation for a three-year service contract
for six Vale mines.
We put it in, and we were fortunate enough
to win that contract.
This is our first year, end of first year
in that contract.
It's going really well.
Every week we have some jobs that we do at
some mine, some Vale mine.
Sihong: That will definitely keep you busy
for a while.
It’s a three-year contract.
Now you can afford a bigger team and more
research and development efforts.
Also like you said, customer service efforts.
Naeem: Yes, absolutely.
Sihong: Maybe tell us the day you actually
heard or knew that you were closing the deal
with Vale.
What was going on in your mind?
How were you feeling?
Naeem: To be honest I wasn't expecting because
there are other providers and they are really
good at what they do.
They have been providing services for many
years here and we were up against them.
I wasn't expecting but then when they called
us for a discussion on the project and on
the contract one thing that stuck out for
them was that we were continuously working
on innovative products.
We were constantly developing new ideas, new
products, new processes.
That was something that they really liked
at Vale.
They said: “there are other providers, but
they have some products that they have been
using and they will continue using those.
But you guys are coming up with new ways of
doing things which we really like.
You can improvise.
You can solve our problems the way others
probably are not willing to do.
They can but probably they are too busy.”
Sihong: That is at the very core of Clickmox.
You always keep the business model providing
services at the same time research and development
to continuously develop new products or improve
your existing products.
Did you feel kind of a sense of validation
or joy?
Naeem: Yes everybody, all team members, we
all were very happy with that.
That's what we said, we have done work in
the past with Vale and they were happy with
us and they have seen our products in working.
They like the way we work, so I think we are
on the right track.
Sihong: That’s excellent.
That is great recognition of your team's work.
What is your next milestone now you have this
big contract that can sustain your development
efforts?
What is your next milestone?
Naeem: The next immediate milestone is to
finish that shaft scanning system that I told
you about because there is a there's a huge
market for that.
We have already been contacted by large contracting
companies.
I won’t name them here but there's a lot
of interest for that product.
Sihong: How did you market this brand-new
product that no one has heard about to your
potential clients?
What are some of the strategies or systems
that you have put in place?
Naeem: Basically, in this particular case
what happened was that the person in charge
of the innovation in that company knew me
personally.
He knew that we develop new products and they
contacted us.
We didn't have to go to them.
But then of course whenever our team goes
on a service contract, we always ask them
is there a problem that you're facing, is
there something else?
Sihong: Active listening.
Naeem: That has helped us a lot.
Sihong: They bring back the feedback to you.
What would you do with the feedback because
there might be a gazillion things from your
customers?
Naeem: We evaluate.
We sit down and we say this mine has this
particular problem.
For example we found out that one of the mines
has these old vents with liners and bolts
and that they have been visually inspecting
which is a very cumbersome process and not
very accurate either.
They said can we just do a scan of those old
vents and figure out where in those liners
and the bolts.
We came back and said okay, this sounds like
an interesting project but first let us figure
out how many mines have this problem.
Sihong: Kind of take that idea from one client
and then consult with other clients and say
yes, do you guys have this problem or that
problem.
Naeem: We found that.
Yes, it is a problem faced by many.
We said that okay, we can solve this problem.
We had just actually finished building a rig
for that to address that issue.
We are going to do the first test at Vale
very soon with that project.
Sihong: I'm glad to hear that you’re making
great progress in that so what is your vision
for a Clickmox for say in the next 10 to 30
years?
Naeem: I don't really think that far.
The vision is to become basically the go to
place for any kind of inspection and surveying
and mapping needs for the mining industry.
But then we want to go full scale in IoT,
in the Internet of Things building machines
that are autonomously working in underground
mine.
For example we are building a ground vehicle,
a small ground vehicle for some clients in
South Africa where they have narrow veins
mining.
The veins are extremely narrow.
They have this issue of mapping those veins
which is extremely difficult with tradition
systems.
We are building a small vehicle with a scanner
on that.
That will autonomously go and keep on mapping
those veins.
Sihong: Is it an image analysis or still laser?
Naeem: With LiDAR based.
That’s the goal that I have in mind at this
point to become a full IoT provider.
Sihong: That is a great vision.
But I realize there are a lot of companies
out there that are use utilizing artificial
intelligence, IoT, internet of things and
machine learning, how do you think you'll
be able to differentiate?
Naeem: One of the differentiating factors
is that for example we build our own LiDAR
for example.
We write our own software for that.
We have a lot of kind of freedom in terms
of what we can do there as compared to another
provider who just purchased a LiDAR from somebody
else and used that.
Sihong: You have total control of your software
or hardware interfacing.
Naeem: Yes, exactly.
This is one of the differentiating factors.
Then of course we have a client base already.
We have clients who are waiting for our products.
What we try to do is to always go for something
which is different from what others are doing.
For example, a small vehicle, a lot of companies
are building small vehicles, but a lot of
those vehicles have these problems of going
with obstacles and going on steep slopes.
Sihong: They can tip over.
Naeem: For example, the vehicle we are developing
has six wheels independently operated.
It can balance itself in very difficult environments.
Sihong: What are some of the lessons or advice
that you would like to share with our audience
members that are probably starting out or
still working in a corporate environment but
want to make a difference with their knowledge,
skills or their mindset.
They are seeing the shift or disruption from
technology.
They might want to do something and what are
some of the advice that you will give them.
Naeem: I have a lot of advice to give.
The first and foremost is that do what you
want to do, what you like doing.
This very, very important.
When you get up in the morning you should
feel happy that you're going to work.
You shouldn't feel burdened.
This is very important.
The next is you build a team around you, people
who share your vision, who share your values
and who are passionate, who are also passionate
about what you do and then be persistent.
If you start a business, there will definitely
be hurdles.
You will encounter problems, countless problems
every day.
It just never ends.
Just be persistent and then you will eventually
succeed.
Sihong: Thanks very much.
Where can people find more about you or your
company?
Naeem: We have this website Clickmox.com.
There is information about the company, the
products and services and there is a little
information about team as well.
It’s incomplete but there is some information.
Sihong: By the way I checked the website it
looks beautiful.
Whoever designed your website did an excellent
job.
Naeem: Thanks.
One of our team members Jesse Huchenski designed
that.
Sihong: You mentioned when you started out
you didn't have a mentor to bounce ideas off
or get some guidance.
Are you open to mentor younger people that
might need a little bit of help with career
advice?
Naeem: Yes, absolutely.
I already do that actually.
A lot of young people and also a lot of older
people my age and even older they sometimes
come in and ask me how to start a business,
what to do, what are the first steps.
I always give them advice.
Sihong: How can our audience members reach
you?
Naeem: The best is by email which is Naeem@Clickmox.com
so that they can email me anytime.
Next section is actually my favorite Minepreneur
Trivia.
Downtown Toronto or Lakefront Sudbury?
Naeem: Lakefront Sudbury.
Sihong: Dominican Republic or Whistler BC
for vacation or what's your favorite vacation
place?
Naeem: My favorite is has always been Stockholm.
I have been going there often.
For some reason I like that city.
Sihong: PC or Mac?
Naeem: PC.
Sihong: Wolves or Sudbury Five.
Naeem: Sudbury Five.
Sihong: You watch basketball?
Naeem: Yes.
Sihong: What is your proudest purchase under
$500 in the past five years?
Naeem: I bought something for my wife so that
was something that you know…
Sihong: What is it?
Naeem: It was a piece of jewelry.
Sihong: That is very nice of you.
I think I want to summarize the lessons learned.
Lesson number one, if you want to do something
don't wait until everything is perfect do
it now.
Number two, be persistent.
Keep working on the people that say no to
you.
Number three, listen to your customers and
act on the feedback constantly.
Number four, be agile.
Pivot your plan when necessary.
Number five, you may end up very differently
since you first started.
Number six, enlist help when necessary.
Seeking help is not a sign of a weakness but
rather a sign of strength.
Number seven, clearly define your goals and
clearly communicate with your team for best
alignment.
Number eight, find a mentor that can help
guide you through the most difficult times.
Lesson number nine, family support.
Work life balance is important.
Number 10, do it.
Some barriers may only be perceived ones.
I think that is my take away from this interview.
As a special offer to Minepreneur audience
Naeem has offered a 10% discount on their
latest feature product Versa 3D Scanner.
Maybe introduce the model to us, what does
Versa 3D scanner do?
Naeem: As the name suggests Versa stands for
versatile and 3D for 3D scanner so it's probably
the most versatile 3D scanner, versatile and
compact 3D scanner that you can buy.
It is designed for underground mines, but
it can be used as you can use to can be used
as well.
The reason why we called it versatile is because
it can be used as a stationary, high-resolution
stationary scanner as well as a mobile scanner.
You can mount it on a drone or on a ground
vehicle and fly or drive the vehicle.
It will do a 3D mapping of the area or you
can use it as a simple on the tripod stationary
scanner or you can mount it on a post and
use it as a CMS to scan stopes.
Sihong: That sounds like a great product for
especially underground mining environment
where people seek a very versatile yet compact
products.
Naeem: Yes, it weighs only 920 grams so it’s
very light.
Sihong: Under one kilo.
For our audience members that are interested
to explore Versa 3D you can go to Minepreneur.com/Clickmox.
Thank you 
very much.
