stock
about um...
the these uh... this story from kurt
chris hedges or the speech with chris
hedges of and uh... um...
also this uh... piece and did a great
britain and the also to say that we're
gonna obviously post a link
uh... that majority got us into the
other w_s_
bus dot tumbler site so uh... people get
a sense you're going next is the case
said right
yes will be different through sunday
okay so people get a sense of where the
uh... the buses going so that uh...
you can meet up with a fury in the area
but lou
you you to read about just i guess
before the show
that there's a lot of conversation
about david gray boers
to chris hedges peas
about black box
oblak
being a uh... a cancer within occupy
wall street
uh... wet weather people saying what is
your feelings about that
well i i don't i think
multiple bought his his articles frankly
ludicrous and it almost seems like you
doesn't understands what
the so-called black box lockheed about
cutting it
to tactic not even our group of people
so it's almost
like calling you know terrorists
but they all have a similar ideology it
doesn't even make sense
and there are definitely people on this
trip you know that i'm traveling with
now the computer themselves
anarchist in the
you know restricted
central and
date that women always you wear
oakland and violence in black box it's
all been thrown around
um... they picked up a very contentious
and i think the misnomer about it is
that
um...
but there's really any specific
line
this movement takes in terms of the the
tactics to mean the idea behind
being horizontal is that you all pinup
the possibility to anything happening
and throw that doesn't mean that we
necessarily prefer a violent
at the famed token to discontinue we
take it off the table or even what the
definition of violent is because again
we're talking about
you know property destruction navy or or
in some cases
um... challenging laws that we feel are
not even really cup anyway so
um...
to me it's more about
understanding the diversity of tactics
is about
you know people from this of this
movement and not about in in forcing
specific ideas
behind
tactic and so for now it's been
non-violent but
say going forward
that's the only thing that we would ever
use
i have no idea what
this what shape this movement annotate
i'm sure there will be elements of all
the things and and so
i think it really did this service i
mean i think people feel like an offense
by chris hedges saying this is tearing
apart movement what he's actually done
news
tear apart the movement or any dissent
uh... do what he's claiming others are
doing and
and that's been uh... at the defense
contentious but i think it's a good
thing to get out there i guess but i
really don't know exactly
hedges sister branch out on that
i mean it's my sense was that uh...
and and i think we've spoken about this
last week that
at a time where we are in a uh...
assertively the activity of occupy wall
street is uh... less uh... is more under
the radar should say
in general that in what they're
and uh... there is some of the
we're in a sort of a uh...
practice uh... time period right now
uh... where we are you know there's
anticipation of the spring
the
existence of p
bole who are using black block
tactics
uh...
seems like your
uh... than it did
at a time when there was simply
a lot more people around
and so there's a sense i think by people
who
uh... on the periphery all
uh... you know uh... our
sir spending a lot of their time talking
to the reactions of other people that
there's a concern that this is a lien
aiding
uh... i think that concern is overstated
uh... to a certain extent uh...
because like i say it doesn't really
it is really matter what people's
perceptions are now
i think uh... you know
or i should say
doesn't matter what people's perceptions
are now
as a poem
they can't be dispelled
with fifteen thousand people you know
marching up broadway or something
uh... or
uh... hundred-thousand people going on
strike across the country does ralph
things they can certainly make people
forget
uh... couple of uh...
the tactics that were
ordered you know employed in
february of this year's so
it's it's interesting to see i think the
most
the the
the part of gray birds are article that
stuck out of me
was
this part uh...
we was talking about um... diver sity
tactics is not a black block idea
the original g_a_ in tompkins square
park that plan the original occupation
if i remember adopted the principle of
diversity of tactics
at the same time we also uh... concurred
that a gandhi an approach would be the
best way to go
this is not a contradiction
diverse eve tactics means leaving such
matters up to the individual conscience
rather than imposing a code on anyway on
anyone
partly this is because imposing such
code invariably backfires
uh...
and the results are usually disasters
after the fiasco in seattle and lots of
mac deceptively turnover
turning to others to over to the police
we quickly decided we need to ensure
this never happened again
what we found we declared quote we shall
all be in solidarity with another
we will not turn in fellow protesters to
the police we'll treat you as brothers
and sisters
but we expect you to do the same to us
and those who might be disposed to more
militant tactics will act in solidarity
as well
either by nine gauge in a militant
actions for feel they're in danger of
hers
or in doing so that ways uh... uh...
ways that run the lease risk of
endangering fellow activists
so
from great was perspective it seems to
me
that the key is for people who are
engaging in
black blocking activities
to be doing so in such a way that they
are not
integrated with the larger
or protests that i have truly happening
so that others may be endangered by
well i guess i would counter advocated
their on this
but reply dot so the idea that somehow
they don't want to be a part of the
movement
anarchy interest in another perspective
this just patently all well no no no yes
you're missing misinterpreting well you
get your dressing hedges
and i'm talking about i'm talking about
graver saying
that it's important for people who are
using those tactics
used those tactics
inouye that uh... makes it clear
is far enough away from what is going on
and at least physically
uh... with other protesters so as to not
endanger them
and these are my heart
that those black block tactics are
specifically
utilized
to protest
the rest of the movement
because that way you can identify
who is going to be involved in
potentially more militant activity and
stay away from them
you know and that's always bernardino
blackberry dropped by what you did
literally every direct action there are
always
choices to be made and they're
explicitly made um... given to people up
front
if you want to be in high risk of
getting arrested this is what we're
gonna do with raw deal already
you know you want no rest mrs reagan day
and so you know it's more about just
understanding that
protesters all
we have a common enemy and it's much
more effective
just simply focus your energy against
that enemy and not internally
and all out
this to happen i mean part of it i think
is that it's
sort of scary for people that are used
to old construct
just allow something that happened
and to not have control of exactly every
single person in what they're going to
do
and at the paint and that's really
what's made this movement
so effective
and
you know a quite
think there will always be people trying
different avenues in different tactics
simultaneously
i think that's been the case
uh...
throughout history
i really think that in a lot of ways
right now
the most effective action to have been
totally you know outside the system in
every way and you know you can call it
violence if you want
on another term you think of what the
you know the
socal blacked out
and in that sense that was sort of
taking these kind of militant
you know black black tactics to the
internet
and they literally shut down sites are
people participated in something that
you know if they were physical and in
the world they would've probably
consider that pilot below the waist let
me ask you this that
uh... about that
you think there is a
a point that it's uh...
and i'm not saying that hedges is saying
this reside thugs pieces i'm i couldn't
quite make it from
make it out from this but
uh... from a tactical perspective
if i was to present to you and i have
not saying i'm gonna do that with this a
complete that the pedicle but if i was
to say to you
uh... i have evidence
uh... that uh... shows that
these tactics
are scaring
pull away
from joining up with protesters and
occupy wall street
i don't have that evidence i'm not even
sure that i think anecdotally anecdote
ically that's happening
rabbi into it
but what's your response
if i was to say if i was to say
you that
what does your response to the idea that
it might be keeping
people away because it's scaring them as
to the nature of occupy wall street
with ha
you know that scare tactic really only
coming from
people like chris hedges i think that if
you are involved in these
actions in person
you find that there really isn't any
kind of a threat in any way sort of the
famous
you kadhi park
they're always these you know rumors
that there were
terrible things going on there and then
you would show up and realize
although you could find no kind of
things if you were really looking for
them it was very easy to stay away from
them at the paint on it and to make the
experience
what you wanted to make it so
uh... you know i really have never felt
in any instant said i've been out there
you know on the streets now for almost
five months
that i would never swept in those into a
scenario where i'm in the middle of a
black block against my will or
you know i've ever felt like i happen
personally been
able to make decisions virtually every
instant so
uh... i don't think it's true i i think
that you know and very very um...
select instances pride merrily in
oakland
something may have happened that have
been that have been different but the
character of the entire movement i just
i haven't been at all
right okay
fair enough
uh... jeff smith
he's on the bus they occupy a wall
street
bus
uh... driving through upstate new york
heading to a pick a
and you can go to w answer
boss dot com belair
for more information we have a link
uh... that majority a dot f_m_ jeff
uh... thanks for joining us uh... we'll
talk to you next week
ac
