>>> Coming up next on "Arizona
Horizon," a huge acquisition for
Mesa, Apple will locate a new
manufacturing plant in the East
Valley.
>>> And a local computer expert
talks about problems with the
health care website.
And a chat with author Jared
Diamond of "Guns, Germs and
Steel" fame about his latest
book.
Next on "Arizona Horizon."
"Arizona Horizon" is made
possible by contributions from
the Friends of Eight, members of
your Arizona PBS station.
Thank you.
>>> Good evening, and welcome to
"Arizona Horizon," I'm Richard
Ruelas in for Ted Simons.
Apple has picked Mesa as the
site of its newest manufacturing
plant.
The facility will create 700
quality jobs in its first year
of operation and 1300
construction jobs.
Arizona State University W.P.
Carey School of Business
professor Arnie Maltz is here to
discuss the impact of the plant.
>> My pleasure.
>> What will this plant create?
>> It's designed to grow more
than anything else crystals,
sapphire crystals that Apple
will use for the covering of
their button, the new
fingerprint buttons, and for the
covering for the camera on the
iPhone 5.
>> This is a terrific fit,
because of course the original
use for that plant was going to
be something similar.
>> So what form, I mean,
sapphire crystals that actually
evolve and morph and become
something solid?
>> My guess is -- I don't know
all about that -- it's going to
be basically slabs and they will
cut them to proper shapes.
>> And they will use them to
make the fingerprint sensor, not
the glass screen --
>> Apparently not the glass
screen, but the sensor and the
camera cover.
>> What kind of jobs are these?
How important are these jobs?
Are these sort of the high-tech,
high education quality jobs?
>> They would be fairly high
tech, comparable to what Intel
does in their plants, very
similar.
My guess would be like that.
>> What kind of training would
someone need to get a job here?
>> At least technically -- how
do I say it -- comfortable.
They will be working primarily
with controlling and things like
that.
This is not hands on
manufacturing, this is going to
be one step away kinds of
manufacturing that we're looking
at here.
>> Someone who's had -- would
you need a college degree, an
engineering degree?
>> I don't think you would
necessarily need that, although
that remains to be seen.
You would need a good technical
background, possibly at a
community college, as I say,
very comfortable around
technology.
All of rest of that comes in
through there.
>> Apple is buying what was a
vacant building essentially,
that was supposed to create
solar panels.
>> Uh-huh.
>> And I guess talk us through
what the handoff is.
What is Apple doing with the
building, and what does the
company expect it to do in
return.
>> What Apple has done -- and
it's very common with the large
high-tech guys -- is to buy,
because they have the money, a
building.
They spent I think $115 million.
They are then going to lease
that building to A.G. Advanced
Technologies.
A.G. Advanced Technologies
historically -- and they have
been around since about 1994 --
has built equipment to do the
sapphire manufacturing, and they
have handed it off to somebody
else to actually do the
manufacturing.
That is a brand-new situation
for A.G., it's now going to
become a manufacturer of these
things.
>> Before A.G. would create the
equipment.
>> Right.
>> That would produce these
crystals, grow these crystals.
>> And hand that off to contract
manufacturing people, any
variety of people.
Now what they are going to do is
run it themselves.
They are going to run that
plant, hire the people, they are
going to supervise the people.
>> Presumably with the
equipment.
>> Yes.
They have their own equipment.
>> And they will bring in
employees and figure out how to
run this.
>> Yes.
>> Is there a big learning
curve?
>> There may be.
One of the nice things for A.G.,
Apple has handed them nearly
$600 million to get them through
the learning curve.
>> It is a slight calculated
gamble on Apple's part.
>> I haven't talked to Apple
directly, and sometimes they
don't tell you anyway.
But they are very interested in
the technology.
My guess is they are very
interested in staying with this
technology.
They have not made buy
guarantees with A.G., but they
have told A.G., in return for
this we expect you to have a
certain amount of capacity at
all times.
>> So there's a chance if things
don't go well Apple might not
take what they are selling.
>> But it's like Apple has
prepaid.
They are going to take this out
in trade is what it amounts to.
>> There is a lot of secrecy
around this deal with
governments having to sign
confidentiality agreements.
A, that is normal, B, a good way
of doing business to have
governments be secret about
business dealings?
>> It's certainly normal, Apple
doesn't operate any other way.
But Apple has a reputation for
being careful.
>> Normal for Apple or normal
for high-tech companies?
>> I guess I'm not sure about
that.
Intel may be a little more
transparent.
I don't think anybody wants
their elbow joggled while they
are trying to negotiate
incentives.
They are sensitive to everybody.
>> I guess Apple is still -- I
guess you can discuss whether it
merits this reputation, when
Apple comes to town, people seem
to change their ordinary course
of business.
>> Of course.
>> Is that a big deal?
>> It's a big deal because Apple
is likely to attract other
things just by reputation.
This is an advanced technology
company.
These guys are operating state
of the art stuff.
>> If they like it here, if this
factory works well, do we think
they are still on the hunt to
try to move more of their
operations into the United
States?
>> That's hard to tell.
They have already moved very
high-end manufacturing -- not
manufacturing, but very high-end
product into the Silicon Valley,
because they are making the
computer they are now selling
for $3,000, they are making some
of that in the U.S.
It's hard to tell.
My guess is, and I've said this
before to other people, what's
coming out of this plant may not
go to U.S. manufacturing.
It may go to Mexico where Apple
has a major lead manufacturer
down there, over near El Paso.
Or it may go back to Asia.
>> I guess if more goes to
Mexico for the actual
manufacturing of it, the fact
that we're here, and if they
have established a base, that
might be good news down the
road.
>> Very much good news, no
question about it.
>> I appreciate you joining us
and trying to make some sense of
what this deal means for the
state.
Thanks for coming down.
>> Thank you very much,
appreciate it.
  
>>> Expand your horizon with the
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>>> The website to enroll for
insurance under the Affordable
Care Act has been plagued with
problems since its rollout.
Ken Colburn of the Data Doctors
is here to talk about this
issue.
Have they called you at all?
>> No, I'm really low on that
tech surge list.
>> Did you foresee any of this?
What are the problems one could
imagine, with asking millions
and millions of people to fill
out an online form?
What would you be looking for?
>> If only it was that easy?
I don't think we have enough
time to cover all of the
mistakes and things that
occurred.
This is the most ambitious
technology project the
government has ever taken on.
I don't think if you brought
Google and Amazon and the
smartest people in the room, if
you had brought those people in
from the beginning, I still
think there are some major
challenges because of the
underlying issues with old
systems they are trying to tap
into.
>> As opposed to starting an
Amazon account, where maybe if
you click the wrong button, you
get a pair of headphones you
don't want, this presents some
pretty important identity
information.
>> Not only are they big
heavy-duty databases, they are
really old.
It has to tap into all of these
different databases
simultaneously, and then come
back and give you, you know,
some information about your
qualifications.
It's a very, very complicated
process.
It's an amazing thing they are
trying to do.
>> So it needs to be this
high-tech website built with
today's technology, needs to be
able to be, in essence,
technologically dumbed down to
speak to some of these Univac
computers?
>> So the website we're all
looking at isn't the problem.
It's what happens behind the
scenes.
All the stuff we don't see, but
it all ends up in this little
tiny file format which is all
gobbledy-gook.
This file is sent to your
insurance company as you're now
enrolled in their system.
That's another problem, there's
a high error rate on this file
that gets sent to the insurance
companies, which could result in
people not getting properly
listed, not properly covered.
You might have to fight with the
insurance company saying I'm
covered, no, you're not.
That's a major concern right now
is that at the end of all of
this, they have kind of started
to clear the pipes and they are
getting people through.
But if the data that's generated
when you enroll is inaccurate --
and when we say alarming
numbers, 5%, 6%, 10%, those are
huge numbers when you talk about
seven million people trying
register.
>> You're talking now about, are
they requiring the insurance
companies to have a sort of
uniform platform?
>> It gets really technical.
This 834 transaction standard is
kind of a loose standard they
are not required to comply with
until sometime in 2014.
It's a really crazy mess.
So right now, because the volume
is so low, they are able to
manually go through and rectify
these bad data submissions
before they put them into their
actual insurance database.
But some insurance experts are
saying it's going to take the
insurance industry a year to get
this fixed where it's automated
and working properly.
There's a lot of complexity
here.
>> Could this have been foreseen
and remedied?
Or we needed to get it out there
to see what the glitches and
problems were?
>> That's generally not how it
works.
You can't have nine women have a
baby in a month.
That's essentially what's going
on here.
People that don't understand
technology have set programs and
guidelines; we will have this at
this time.
>> I know politics isn't your
forte, but this became a
political thing.
We really don't want to move the
date back, so once the date was
set it might not have been a
technically perfect date.
>> There's no way it could be a
perfect date.
I'm not so interested in the
political part of the battle.
I'm interested in the very
aggressive thing they are trying
to do.
>> Have you ever built a
200-story building?
No.
Let's go ahead and have you be
the general contractor.
The project was being led by
people who really had no
business doing that.
>> Given more time, this could
have been remedied.
It did not have to be
beta-tested.
>> It took Amazon 10 years
before we could click and go
around with these purchases.
There are 55 contractors on this
that all have a little piece of
the puzzle.
They are all saying, hey, I did
my part.
You put the pieces together and
they don't fit.
Security issue, issue after
issue after issue.
There's a lot of work to get
this done.
>> We're manufacturing the car
as it's rolling.
>> It's worse, we're flying the
plane and trying to fix it.
>> Ken Colburn, thanks for
joining us, always illuminating.
>>> Get the inside scoop on
what's happening at Arizona PBS.
Become an Eight Insider.
Get the Eight Insider delivered
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>>> Pulitzer Prize winning
author Jared Diamond, author of
"Guns, Germs and Steel," is out
with a new book.
"The World Until Yesterday: What
We Can Learn From Traditional
Societies."
I spoke with him about his new
book earlier this evening.
>> Thank you for joining us
tonight.
>> A pleasure.
>> Let's get right into the
heart of the book.
It seems like you concentrated
-- the cultures you looked at
and spent so much time in, it
looks like you keyed in on some
very key factors that we can
pick up some cues from in our
lives, starting with children,
how the people of New Guinea
treat children or raise
children.
>> The book is about traditional
societies, smaller ones,
including those of New Guinea,
which have to solve universal
problems like raising children.
Watching my New Guinea friends
raise their children influenced
what my wife and I did with our
own children.
We tend to micromanage our kids,
and we gave them as much freedom
as possible.
One of my sons declared that he
was interested in snakes at age
three.
Within a short time he had 147
pet snakes and frogs and lizards
in our house.
>> When you started this
research, you had not had
children yet?
>> I went to New Guinea for the
first time in 1964, long before
I had children.
>> Did you find yourself as you
saw them, raising their children
in that hands-off way, almost
instinctively rushing towards
kids?
Did you fight the western
instinct or the WEIRD instinct
of wanting to step in and save
them from themselves or what you
would think would be themselves?
>> I didn't fight the instinct
because in 1964 I was unmarried
and I had no intention of having
children.
>> It seems like a new trick,
we've heard this thought of how
diet has changed in our lives in
western society.
What did you see in New Guinea
and other tribal regions?
>> That's a big thing from which
I learned.
Every New Guineaian I saw was
like a muscle man, nobody was
overweight.
No diabetes, no heart disease,
no stroke, no hypertension.
>> And in 1964 in America those
things were not as prevalent as
they are now.
>> They were there in 1964, they
have gotten worse.
Now the reality is you and I and
most of our listeners are going
to die of these noncommunicable
diseases, but it's within our
control.
If you eat less, don't get fat,
exercise regularly, if you throw
the saltshaker out of kitchen,
if you have lots of fruit and
vegetables, you, too, can avoid
heart disease and stroke and
diabetes.
>> Your book does not flinch at
mentioning some of the, I guess,
more violent, or things that we
would not want to adopt in these
lifestyles.
>> You're right.
Another piece of the lifestyle
of one tribe in New Guinea, is
that when a man dies his widow
is strangled, but at her own
request.
Namely, the widow calls out for
her brothers to come strangle
her while she sits in a chair.
I can assure you, if I
predecease my wife, I hope my
wife does not call upon her
brothers to strangle her.
This illustrates an important
point, there are wonderful and
terrible things out of
traditional societies.
>> That's not done out of
adhering to a certain religion,
it's done out of need.
There is so much available
resources, and this is the
decision we've decided
collectively to make?
>> That's a very interesting
point.
Some of the things they do out
of need, such as for example
infanticide of weak babies, but
in this case strangling widows,
of the thousand tribes in New
Guinea, there are only two that
strangle widows.
This is just a custom, like the
French eat frogs and snails and
the Germans don't.
This is simply a custom.
>> So did the idea of empathy,
for lack of a better word, that
we're going help the weak child,
that is based on what our
culture has as far as a surplus
or an abundance of goods and
assistance available?
Or is it an evolution, evolving
in our thought process?
>> It's that we have the
capability of keeping weak
children alive.
We have medical care, and we
have food to keep them alive.
Whereas in New Guinea, without
obstetricians, without doctors,
if a weak baby is born, it's
just not going to be possible
for the parents to raise it.
It's not that they are
impervious to it.
One of my New Guinea friends
lost one of his twin sons, and
that really hit me because I had
twins, 14 years later when he
talked about it, he was still
upset.
It still gets me that one of my
twins died after two weeks.
It's not that they are
impervious, they have no other
choice.
>> The book is largely
autobiographical in a way that
you're talking about how the
study affected you, not
academically -- well, there's a
lot of academia on how it
affects our lives.
But there's a lot of how it
affected you as a person.
Are you a better man for it?
>> My enemy would say say that
I've become a worse man.
But it is true that being in New
Guinea has affected me.
And one of my two reasons for
writing the book, one reason is
that traditional people are just
so fascinating.
The other thing is that many of
the things they do are useful in
our lives.
The readers of my book also can
learn about ways to raise their
children and ways to treat old
people and the value of learning
multiple languages and thinking
clearly about danger.
>> And I guess you mentioned
your enemies, and there have
been critics who talked about
the book, painting too broad a
brush.
If you're condensing thousands
of years of civilization into a
digestible book, there are going
to be some broad brush strokes.
There are some aspects of how it
truly affected your life,
raising children, diet, but this
is deeply personal.
Was it difficult to go from an
academic standpoint to opening
yourself up a bit?
>> No, it wasn't.
Because this is my sixth book
for the public.
When I set out, my intention was
to write an autobiographical
account of my experiences in New
Guinea.
My editor said, Jared, your
readers want big books about the
world, not a little
autobiography.
It's illustrated by my
observations in New Guinea.
>> Some of these aspects, you
talk about our society and let's
talk about WEIRD.
So what is the acronym for
WEIRD?
>> Western educated industrial
rich Democratic, all the
societies that we are used to,
societies with state government.
Israel, Argentina, they are
WEIRD meaning western, educated,
industial rich democratic, and
WEIRD by world standards.
They are very unusual by the
standards of human history and
by the standards of the small
societies that filled the whole
world until recently.
>> Until yesterday, essentially.
Are the feelings that exist in
the tribal societies still
within us?
Or have we stomped them down
with smartphones and televisions
and all of our distractions?
>> Interesting question.
The feelings, the feelings are
still with us.
So my first revelation,
self-revelation in New Guinea
was realizing these seemingly
exotic people using stone tools,
until shortly after I came out
there, they are people who laugh
and cry and get angry and they
are scared under the same
circumstances that I am.
So emotionally they are similar
to us.
But they do different things.
In some cases there are reasons
in their surroundings, and in
other cases it's a matter of
culture.
But basically there are
thousands of different
experiments on how to run a
human society, and we can learn
from them.
>> And I guess with our society,
the experiment we're still
undergoing now, how would we
decide to readopt some of our
old habits, to put down our
smartphones?
Do we need to experience
another culture?
Is it within us or do we just
need to hear that maybe life
would be better if we put down
the saltshaker and the cell
phone.
>> The short answer is we can
learn by reading my book.
But briefly, we can learn by
adopting some of these things
ourselves, and other things
require changes in all society.
For example, there's a lot of
salt in supermarket food.
I can't do anything about that.
My wife and I threw the
saltshaker out of our kitchen.
To change the amount of salt in
supermarket food, that would be
harder to change.
It illustrates to learn from
traditional society, partly we
can do it ourselves, partly it's
a change needed in the whole
system.
>> Tonight at 7:00, if you're
watching us live at 5:30, you
can still make it.
Jared, thank you.
>> My pleasure.
>>> Submit your comments,
concerns, via email.
>>> Wednesday on "Arizona
Horizon," a recap of the Phoenix
City Council elections and
Congressman David Schweikert.
and
on "Arizona Horizon."
That's all for this addiction.
Thanks for joining us, have a
good evening.
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