[Darris McNeely] Welcome to our Beyond Today
Studios, "Beyond Today" interviews.
We're in part two of a discussion with Ben
Light, an educator from Oregon, 15 years experience
in the public schools of Oregon on issues
and challenges that are facing young people
today with some practical ideas and tips as
to what we all can do to help make a difference
with our young people today in our homes,
schools, and our churches.
Ben, you remember, we talked about the starfish,
we've got this here, people may be wondering
exactly what that's all about.
But the idea that the little boy on the beach
in the early morning, starfish all over the
place, throwing one at a time back into the
ocean to try to make a difference in saving
one even though it's almost an impossible
task, is really the setting for what we want
to do as parents, educators, mentors with
young people in wanting to make a difference,
even if it's with only one.
I think you brought that up last time, the
power of how that is when you do even with
one, it makes all the difference in the world.
[Ben Light] It does.
Yeah, it does.
I mean, you can really take a look at the
number of kids that you interact with as an
educator, you know, there's so many over the
years.
And, you know, if you make the difference
in the life of one and obviously, as a teacher,
you're gonna make a difference in more than
just one.
But even one, you can call it a career.
I mean, you can say that it was worth it.
[Darris] I think you can.
I have had people come up to me that I knew
and when they were young, and because now
they're adults, and I'm older, and we still
have a relationship.
But even though I may not have realized how
significant it was, I did make a difference
with them as their life on something, a word,
a comment.
I had that even happen to me as a young person
and a turning point in my life when actually
my pastor came up one day when I was at my
lowest and just made an offhand comment from
him, turned my life around and gave me that
hope.
So, there's starfish out there and we can
make a difference with one.
Now, we were talking in this last program
about the issues of transgender.
You brought up that your son in the third
grade had a classmate dealing with gender
change.
Blows my mind away.
[Ben] Yeah.
I mean, it's one of those things where the
prevalence of the issue is increasing significantly.
And I think the boundaries, like we tend to
think that it's this narrow band of certain
ages, you know, that it's gonna be the 12,
13, to 15, 16 kind of range, when in reality,
those are now being pushed.
And it's getting younger, it's getting...and
it's with all of our issues, drug use, sexual
activity.
All those things are happening now younger
and younger and younger than what they were
back when we were in school.
[Darris] How would you tell someone, a parent,
a teacher, a concerned adult faced with someone
who was caught up in the LGBTQ community and
the acceptance of that in our society today
to the point of law and certainly cultural
norms?
How do you deal with that when it comes down
to the one on one situation with somebody
you know?
You're confronted with it, someone you love.
[Ben] Yeah, it's a very sensitive issue and
it's a tough issue.
And if it's somebody you love, you have a
very open conversation with them.
And I think, you know, if it's somebody that
you love and it's somebody that you have a
real strong relationship with, you can make
clear that you realize I can't condone this
lifestyle.
You realize that I'm looking at, you know,
my life is governed by Scriptural truth, my
life is governed by the guidelines of the
Bible, you know that I can't condone this.
That does not, however, stop me from loving
you and being someone who cares about you
deeply.
And you can even express concern, you can
express the concern that you have that this
person is struggling in this way and having
these feelings and these issues.
[Darris] How do you help an adult working
with a young person dealing with say gender
issues, determine whether or not it's a fad
or phase because, you know, that's what some
will say.
And it may well be that it is a fad or phase
influenced by culture, but how do they tell
the difference between a fad and what really
may be a deep-seated issue, emotional matter
that can be within the rest of the life and
impact the rest of their life?
[Ben] Absolutely.
[Darris] How do you tell the difference?
[Ben] It's tough, it's really tough.
You know, I would say if if there has been
issues and things for a length of time, you
know, if there have been indications earlier
on in life that especially if it's somebody
you know closely and you've had time with
this person, earlier on in their life, I think
you can kind of see a pattern or a trend of
data points that kind of illustrate to you
that this might be a gender dysphoria thing.
What I noticed and what I observed in the
classroom was, as soon as DOMA lapsed...
[Darris] Defense of Marriage Act, right?
[Ben] Yeah.
So, as soon as that happened, we saw an uptick
in individuals that felt comfortable enough
at least to begin expressing some form of
same-sex attraction in the school system.
Whether that's a fad, whether that's a phase
or whether they just now felt comfortable
enough because of the legislation to be able
to come out, I don't know.
But there was a definite uptick after that.
[Darris] Did you have the resources to deal
with that as an educator?
[Ben] No, no, not really.
[Darris] You were unprepared.
[Ben] Very much.
[Darris] Was the system unprepared?
[Ben] I think so.
I think it changed faster than the system
was ready to have changed.
We had a training, one very brief training
on ensuring that we used appropriate terminology
to refer to people and that was kind of it,
now go and teach.
[Darris] Go and deal with that.
[Ben] But, you know, the issue that we're
dealing with here with teachers especially
is they're dealing with all of this extraneous
outside stuff.
You know, the technology and the change in
society and all these other issues, and then
are still expected to teach their content
and still...
[Darris] Math, science, history, and kind
of things.
[Ben] Absolutely.
And it's hard, you know, there's so many outside
distractions that are preventing that and
making it difficult.
[Darris] Do you think we're far enough into
this to see the effects of it?
[Ben] I don't think so.
No, I don't think so yet.
I think the long-term, long-range effects
I think it's like anything.
You know, make a change and then you don't
see the effects for another, you know, 5 to
10 years down the road.
[Darris] Or a generation.
[Ben] Or a generation.
I think we are just now starting down that
road and I think 10 to 15 years down the road,
it's gonna be interesting to see.
[Darris] You've made the transition from the
public sector of education into the ministry,
working in a church setting now with congregations
and people of faith, you're a camp director,
youth camp director for the church.
How do you see this...has it crept into people,
families of faith?
[Ben] It has, yes, yeah.
To an extent, I think there have always been
issues of same-sex attraction, you know, the
Scripture has discussed it.
I think it just has not been as societally
accepted so it's been kind of kept quiet.
Where I think once society began to accept
it, I think there was a certain push towards
well, you know, I can be a person of faith
and also, be a person who is living a homosexual
lifestyle.
[Darris] So, have you seen this in your church
camp setting?
[Ben] Yes.
[Darris] How did you deal with it?
[Ben] We, as much as possible, tried to educate
the kids that were involved in the situation.
We tried as much as possible to ensure that
we had those kind of crucial conversations
with all of them.
[Darris] Through the counseling staff and
other adults working there?
[Ben] Absolutely.
Yeah.
I mean, and it's one of those situations where
I don't know that you can necessarily change
the mind of the individual.
I mean, you can try and you can make an effort.
But I think by the time that individuals to
the point where they're coming out, their
minds are pretty made up at that point in
time, and there's not...
[Darris] Do you think they made up permanently?
[Ben] I don't think permanently.
I think you can have an effect.
[Darris] You can still make a difference.
[Ben] I think so.
But I think that it's an uphill battle at
that point in time, that that individual's
gonna have to be very open to the possibility
that they're living contrary to what God is
teaching.
And if they somehow see that there's a melding
of God's Word and this lifestyle, it's gonna
be a very difficult battle.
[Darris] So, the church and a parent has to
make a very clear sound teaching and voice
on these matters to show good and evil, right
and wrong.
Standard of morality, there can't be any compromise.
[Ben] No, there can't be.
No, there can't be.
[Darris] Do you see that compromise creeping
into families in faith in a church?
[Ben] I think that societal conditions ultimately
are going to creep into the church in a way
no matter what you do, there's going to be
a small trickle effect that's gonna come in
from society.
I think that there is a general feeling of
well, you know, Christ stayed with sinners,
Christ stayed, you know, with all these individuals.
[Darris] He did, which is often used as a
crutch to support immoral behavior.
[Ben] Exactly.
[Darris] Well, Christ didn't condemn them.
He showed love, etc.
[Ben] Right but at every turn Christ said,
"Go and sin no more."
[Darris] Go and sin no more to those, yeah.
[Ben] Correct.
[Darris] How does a parent prepare their child
to face a world without God?
[Ben] I think it's twofold.
It's exceptionally important that the parent
makes sure that that child knows where true
north is, that they understand where those
morals are, they understand what the expectations
and the guidelines are.
So, I think teaching our youth what God says
and what God teaches about these issues, you
know, about these kind of hot-topic issues
is important.
I think that's step one, the kids have to
be educated in God's ways.
But I think step two is, there's got to be
conversations happening at a much younger
age than what we had traditionally thought.
[Darris] And you mentioned your third grade
son, your son in the third grade and the reality
is it has to start that early.
[Ben] Yeah.
Oh, absolutely.
Yes.
Yeah.
And there's always been certain innocence
to youth.
There's always been that, for a number of
years there's been a certain innocence to
youth.
And then you reach a point where that innocence
kind of begins to become to degradaded.
It's sad to know that that innocence has been
degradaded at you know, six, seven, eight
years of age.
[Darris] You live in Oregon.
[Ben] I do.
[Darris] Marijuana has been legalized out
there, other states have legalized it as well
and it's freely available.
Legalization of drugs being pushed in that
way, is it far worse today than in my day
or some previous time in terms of the availability
and the impact of these things?
[Ben] I don't know if it's worse.
I would say that the usage of marijuana, especially
in Oregon, there has been a definite feeling
amongst the young people of Oregon of, well,
what's the big deal?
It's no different than alcohol, it's no different
than, you know, tobacco, it's the exact same
thing.
When you start to look at usage like, rates,
I don't know that it's necessarily increased
significantly among the youth.
I think there was still experimentation that
occurred in drugs in your day in the schools
and things.
I think that's still the case today, the difference
is the potency of what is available is very
different.
There have been recent studies that have come
out that have shown a direct link to daily
usage of high potency, high THC marijuana
to things like schizophrenia and mental illness.
And it's been scientifically shown there's
a link to this.
And I think, again, we talked about earlier,
what's the ultimate long-range forecast for
what's happening?
We don't know.
You know, we're doing these things now and
5, 10 years down...
[Darris] Are we flying blind?
[Ben] I think we are in a way.
I do think we are in a way.
I think, again, we legalized before everybody
asked the questions that were needed to be
asked.
[Darris] Did you deal in your setting much
with suicide?
[Ben] I can thankfully say that I did not
have any students during the time that I was
teaching that took their own life.
I didn't have anybody in my classes that did
that, I didn't really have any that I can
recall in the schools in which I taught where
that occurred.
We had a lot of deaths, we had car accidents
and freak, you know, issues that came up health-wise.
And so, you know, my year before my high school
teaching especially has a number of dates
underneath, some of the pictures that kids
had died.
I did have one situation that you kind of
brought up the starfish story earlier, there
was the young lady and one of my classes at
the middle school that I taught at an eighth-grade
class and she was very quiet.
She didn't really interact a whole lot, she
was very withdrawn.
And we did a little reflection one time talking
about kind of what people don't know about
that person.
And she opened up and she wrote that she felt
like no one saw her.
She felt like she was invisible, that no one
saw her no one cared, etc.
And I still don't know why I did it.
I really don't.
But I wrote on the side of the little thing,
a little note that just said, "That's not
true, you are seen, you're not invisible.
You know, I see, I'm very thankful that you're
here.
I'm very thankful that you're, you know, are
in the class and all of that."
And nothing came of it.
Nothing came of it for a number of years.
She went on to the high school and they did
a little letter about somebody that impacted
them and I got a letter back from her that
said, you know, "That time when you wrote
that, I was contemplating taking my life.
And that really made the difference with me
to where I realized that I had a future and
I had a hope, and I had people who cared about
me and people who were interested in me."
And it made all the difference in that one
starfish's life, so to speak, to have that
note that was given and that note went right
in that box in my sock drawer to remind me
why I did what I did.
But that was one of those situations where
you realize the impact, but I didn't know
the impact right away.
It took three or four years before I learned
that impact.
You know, she was junior when she wrote the
letter.
[Darris] I think we're at the heart of the
solution to a lot of the things that we do
talk about.
The person thinking that she is invisible
to any other adult, any other peer and not
being significant.
I really do think Ben that that is at the
basis of a lot of these problems that we're
talking about, from drugs to suicide, even
alcohol abuse.
They're the end result of something that begins
very early, that breaks that chain of a relationship
that they have, should have with a parent.
And it could be up because of toxic family
conditions which has been caused by parental
behavior that is along the same lines here,
we are in there.
My wife taught in the public school system
too for a number of years and she dealt with
that in classrooms on a regular basis.
But it does come back to the issue of relationships
and nurturing those maintaining them and making
sure that people feel that they are safe.
But they are also...they are loved, and that
there is a person that they could go to, to
sit down and talk and to be understood.
[Ben] Absolutely.
I think that support of a mentor or someone
to be able to come alongside and say, "Hey,
you know, I see you, I, you know, I understand
that you're here, I know you're going through
a hard time but I wanna help, I wanna help
where I can."
And trying to just get that idea of across
that you don't throw away a life that's a
little banged up, you don't throw it away.
That's the big message to get across the kids
especially that are dealing with drug and
alcohol abuse, dealing with suicidal tendencies,
dealing with whatever it might be, that you
are loved, that people do care about you,
that, you know, this is not so far gone yet,
this can be taken care of, this can be fixed.
But, you know, it's gonna take work and it's
gonna take some effort on their part to be
able to make that return.
[Darris] As you look at young people today
that you work with in a church setting, in
a church camp setting, during summer camp
sessions.
What are some of the good qualities, the positive
qualities that you do see and I'm sure keeps
you coming back to work with them in today's
youth?
[Ben] Yeah, I would say, you know, the millennial
label gets a bad rap.
You know, in a way there's a bad rap that
comes from that label, but there are some
incredible positives.
One of the things that I've seen in kids there
is a genuine passion and a care for societal
issues.
You know, there is a want to try to fix the
ills of the world.
What I see in this generation, I don't see
a wringing of the hands on that front, I see
a desire to engage and a desire to become
passionate about whatever it might be, whether
it's environmental causes, or whatever it
might be, there's a jump into these causes
and a jump into these these...
[Darris] They wanna make a difference.
[Ben] They wanna make a difference, and they
want to make a difference however they can
and right now.
And so, I see that and that is a really neat
positive, where I think there has been a degree
of wringing of hands in past generations of,
"Oh, we can't fix this, so why try?
This younger generation wants to tackle this
stuff head-on.
That said, you know, there's a degree of jump
in and then, okay, like there the staying...the
follow-through is a challenge.
[Darris] And the reality of what actually
can be done in somebody's huge issues.
[Ben] And I think sometimes they just...they
bite off a little piece and realizes how much
bigger issue that can be dealt with.
The other thing that I see is just a thirst
for knowledge and understanding and which
is great for working to preach the gospel
message.
It's just a matter of connecting with and
really instructing them of what God desires
of them.
[Darris] Well, that's the one big positive
that I see when I teach the Bible to students
every year in our Bible College, Ambassador
Bible College.
They do come wanting to know about the Bible.
They may not have full knowledge and understanding
of everything that's in this book, but they
have enrolled and taken a year of their life
to come to learn and go through the entire
Bible Genesis to Revelation verse by verse
and have it explained to them, but they want
that.
If I would ask you Ben in conclusion here,
for one who wants to be a mentor and help,
what one solid piece of advice can we leave
to somebody who wants to make that difference,
that starfish difference with a young person
in their life?
[Ben] I think I would tell them, jump in.
Don't wait for the young person to come to
you, don't wait for them.
Interact, build those relationships, get to
know those young people, you know, ask genuine
questions about their life, you know, ask,
be interested.
And I think when that happens, those young
people realize, "Hey, this person's interested
in my life."
They want to help build this relationship
and then they're gonna be much more comfortable
when they have these questions about, you
know, transgender issues or whatever coming
to the person and saying, "Hey, what do you
think about this?
You know, what would you suggest I do in this
situation?"
I think sometimes as mentors we tend to wanna
sit back and say, "Well, I'll wait till they
come to me, you know, they'll ask when they
wanna ask."
In my experience with youth, that's not the
case.
[Darris] So don't wait.
Be proactive.
[Ben] Don't wait, jump in there, be proactive.
You know, get in there, start building those
relationships because like you mentioned,
without the relationship, it's not going anywhere.
[Darris] Ben, I really appreciate that you've
taken the time to come out here in the midst
of you're working with youth at this time
with the camps and church work that you're
doing and sharing this experience with us.
[Ben] It's a pleasure to come out.
[Darris] And for our "Beyond Today" audience,
thanks for watching "Beyond Today" interviews,
we will be producing additional ones giving
you some very practical information and dealing
with your life today, helping you to understand
the full meaning of what "Beyond Today" is
all about for a better future for you.
Thanks for watching.
