So Timothy Garton Ash, you've recently compared
Brexit to a soap opera.
But is it really a soap opera or is it a serious
threat to the continent of Europe?
Well, a British tragedy is also a farce, right?
And it's both those things at the same time.
In my view the negative consequences for Europe
could be even more serious than those for
Britain.
In what way?
Because we already see a lot of forces of
populism, nationalism and disintegration in
different ways in the European Union.
And Brexit could give a big big push to those
forces.
And is there anything that the European Union
can do to counter that?
I hope that they will be doing it this Wednesday
evening, when they give a long flexible extension
for Brexit, cause that gives a chance for
a democratic process which will end up either
with a second referendum on Britain maybe
staying in the EU which would be a fantastic
chance for Europe.
Or with a softer Brexit.
And both those outcomes are less bad for Europe.
Don't you think that there is, also in Europe,
a perception that Britain needs to go through
this?
I hear more and more the argument in continental
Europe that Britain is going to be such a
problematic member of the EU.
The metaphor of cancer or poison is used but
if we're thinking about long term, for decades
the prospects of the European Union longterm,
in relation to China, to Trump's America,
to climate change then it's clearly better
to have Britain inside.
So it wouldn't be easy initially but we'd
get through it and we'd be a better place
at the end.
What do you think if there was no deal?
What would be the actual outcome?
What would it mean for the relations with
the EU?
I think it would be poisoned for a generation.
I think there'd be a huge blame game and we
would blame it on continental Europe.
The Brits would blame it on control of Europe,
not me, but the Brits, the continental Europe
would blame it on the Brits and then the economic
fallout would be really dark.
Very very serious indeed.
Some Brexiteers are arguing actually it would
be better for Europe, better for the EU to
not have Britain because then Europe could
move on and could be more integrationist.
This may be a surprising fort for many of
your viewers.
In the end I think Britain or maybe just England
will be OK.
We'll sort of muddle through somehow we'll
be poorer or weaker, less influential, but
we'll be okay.
But I'm not so sure of the European Union,
longer term.
We'll be okay.
Timothy Garton Ash, thank you very much.
My pleasure.
