>> Sreenivasan: NEXT FRIDAY
MARKS AN ANNIVERSARY THAT IS
SOMETIMES OVERLOOKED.
IT WILL BE 33 YEARS SINCE THE
CHERNOBYL NUCLEAR POWER PLANT--
THEN IN THE FORMER SOVIET UNION,
NOW IN UKRAINE-- BLEW APART
AFTER AN UNEXPECTED POWER SURGE.
THE SOVIET GOVERNMENT INITIALLY
REMAINED SILENT, BUT WITHIN DAYS
OF APRIL 26, 1986, HUNDREDS OF
THOUSANDS OF PEOPLE WERE
EVACUATED.
DOZENS DIED IN THE MONTHS
FOLLOWING, AND RADIATION
CONTAMINATED A HUGE AREA THAT
REMAINS UNINHABITED TODAY.
EARLIER THIS WEEKEND, I SPOKE
WITH ADAM HIGGINBOTHAM, AUTHOR
OF "MIDNIGHT IN CHERNOBYL: THE
UNTOLD STORY OF THE WORLD'S
GREATEST NUCLEAR DISASTER."
THIS IS ALMOST 33 YEARS AGO, AND
HERE YOU ARE PUTTING OUT A BOOK
NOW-- WHAT IS UNTOLD ABOUT IT?
>> WELL, I WOULD SAY THAT THE
PRINCIPLE ASPECT OF WHAT IS
UNTOLD ABOUT IT IS, THIS VERSION
OF THE STORY IS TRUE.
>> Sreenivasan: WHAT DID WE
GET WRONG?
>> WELL, BECAUSE THE SOVIET
GOVERNMENT DID SUCH AN EXCELLENT
JOB OF ATTEMPTING TO COVER UP
THE TRUTH AT THE BEGINNING, YOU
KNOW, MOST PEOPLE'S CONCEPTIONS
OF WHAT HAPPENED ARE KIND OF
ROOTED IN THE INITIAL PROPAGANDA
THAT THE SOVIET UNION PUT OUT,
AND ALSO THE MISINFORMATION THAT
RESULTED FROM THE LACK OF
INFORMATION.
SO FOR EXAMPLE, YOU KNOW, A LOT
OF PEOPLE STILL THINK THAT TENS
OF THOUSANDS PEOPLE DIED ALMOST
IMMEDIATELY AS A RESULT OF THIS
ACCIDENT.
>> Sreenivasan: THAT'S NOT THE
CASE.
>> THAT'S NOT THE CASE, AND, BUT
PART OF THE REASON FOR THAT IS
BECAUSE WESTERN CORRESPONDENTS
IN MOSCOW WEREN'T ALLOWED ACCESS
TO ANY INFORMATION, SO THEY DID
THEIR BEST WITH RUMORS AND
HEARSAY.
WITH A RESULT THAT I THINK
WITHIN A WEEK OF THE ACCIDENT
THE "NEW YORK POST" WAS
REPORTING THAT 15,000 PEOPLE HAD
DIED AND THEIR BODIES BURIED IN
A NUCLEAR WASTE DUMP SOMEWHERE
IN UKRAINE.
>> Sreenivasan: WHEN IN FACT
IT WAS WHAT?
>> WHEN IN FACT THE DEATH TOLL
FROM THE ACCIDENT BY THAT POINT
WAS TWO.
>> Sreenivasan: TWO?
>> ONE MAN DIED IN THE INITIAL
EXPLOSION, AND A SECOND MAN DIED
BY DAWN THAT DAY AS A RESULT OF
BURNS HE SUSTAINED IN THE
EXPLOSION.
>> Sreenivasan: AND HOW DO WE
CALCULATE THE ONES WHO SORT OF
GOT, HORRIBLE CANCERS?
>> I MEAN, THE OFFICIAL FIGURES
ARE THAT WITHIN FIVE MONTHS,
ANOTHER 29 PEOPLE HAD DIED AS A
RESULT OF-- RESULT OF RADIATION
EXPOSURE THEY RECEIVED.
IN THOSE FEW HOURS AFTER THE
FIRST EXPLOSION.
BUT THEN WHEN YOU START TO TRY
TO ATTRIBUTE CANCERS DIRECTLY TO
THE RESULTS OF THE ACCIDENT,
THINGS GET A LOT TRICKIER
BECAUSE OF THE COMPLEXITIES OF
EPIDEMIOLOGY, BUT ALSO BECAUSE
OF THE EXTENT OF THE ATTEMPTS OF
COVERUPS BY THE SOVIET
GOVERNMENT.
>> Sreenivasan: YOU KNOW, IN A
WAY WHEN YOU LOOK AT THIS IN A
LARGER PICTURE, THIS IS ALMOST
ONE OF THE THINGS I THINK THAT
COLLAPSED THE SOVIET UNION, THIS
CATASTROPHE AND WHAT THEY HAD TO
PAY TO TRY TO CLEAN THIS UP.
I MEAN, I DON'T KNOW WHAT THE
REST OF THE SOVIET ECONOMY WAS
DOING AT THE TIME, BUT IT WAS
REALLY STARTLING.
>> YES.
I MEAN THE COST OF THE ACCIDENT
CERTAINLY DIDN'T HELP AN ALREADY
STAGGERING SOVIET ECONOMY.
>> Sreenivasan: RIGHT.
>> BUT I THINK THE MORE
SIGNIFICANT IMPACT IT HAD IN
CONTRIBUTING TO THE COLLAPSE OF
THE EMPIRE WAS THE WAY IT
CHANGED GORBACHEV'S MIND.
HE WAS PURSUING THESE IDEAS OF
GLASNOST AND PERESTROIKA, AND
ECONOMIC REFORM IN PARTICULAR,
QUITE SOFTLY, IN THE LEAD-UP TO
THE ACCIDENT.
IT WAS ONLY AFTER CHERNOBYL THAT
HE REALLY REALIZED HOW EXACTLY
HOW DEEP THE ROT WENT IN THE
SYSTEM THAT HE'D INHERITED, AND
THAT SEEMED TO HAVE ENCOURAGED
HIM TO KIND OF PLUNGE INTO THESE
ECONOMIC REFORMS AT QUITE
RECKLESS SPEED.
>> Sreenivasan: YEAH.
>> AND AS A RESULT, THOSE
REFORMS WERE BOTCHED.
THAT REALLY DESTROYED THE SOVIET
UNION.
>> Sreenivasan: THIS ISN'T A
BOOK THAT IS NECESSARILY AGAINST
NUCLEAR TECHNOLOGY, OR FOR.
IT SEEMS TO BE MORE ABOUT HOW WE
COLLECTIVELY PUT SO MUCH FAITH
IN TECHNOLOGY.
>> I THINK THAT'S RIGHT.
I MEAN, I HAVE TRIED TO SHOW THE
FACTS OF WHAT HAPPENED RATHER
THAN, YOU KNOW, INCLUDING ANY
POLEMIC THAT IS EITHER PRO- OR
ANTI-NUCLEAR ENERGY.
I THINK THE WIDER LESSON OF THE
STORY IS ONE OF OVERCONFIDENCE
IN TECHNOLOGY, WHICH I THINK IS
REALLY, IS OBVIOUSLY STILL WITH
US TODAY.
>> Sreenivasan: YEAH, BESIDES
FACEBOOK, WE ARE TALKING ABOUT
BIG DATA, THAT WE ARE NOT AS
CONSCIOUS OF, ARTIFICIAL
INTELLIGENCE.
>> EXACTLY.
AND WE ARE ASSUMING IT IS ALWAYS
IMPROVING OUR LIVES RATHER THAN
PERHAPS, YOU KNOW, CONTROLLING
AND ALTERING THE WAY THINGS
HAPPEN.
>> Sreenivasan: ALL RIGHT.
ADAM HIGGINBOTHAM, "MIDNIGHT IN
CHERNOBYL" IS THE NAME OF THE
BOOK, THANK YOU SO MUCH.
>> THANK YOU.
