JEFF: questions or things you want to point
out, put it on there, and we will take
care of it. So with that in mind, let's go
ahead and let's get started with Michael,
Michael Wesch. You wanna introduce
yourself?
MICHAEL: Yeah, so I'm Mike Wesch. I'm a
balding white guy sitting on a beach
here. With a, looks like a gamer microphone
set on. I'm actually not on a beach. This
is just a Zoom virtual background. It's
kind of a fun thing you can do with your
students. You can do any background you
want. I picked this for the calming
nature of it, I guess. I'm actually
sitting in a dungeon of sorts, in our
basement. I have three kids running
around upstairs, and I'm sitting here
with the kitty litter so [laughter] I didn't want to
share the kitty litter with you guys. I'm
super passionate about sharing
anthropology and the insights and the
method with as many people as possible
and several years ago discovered the joy
of online teaching and reaching out to
people who don't have access to campuses and so that was my entry into it, and
I've been doing it now for several years,
and I just wanted to share some of my
knowledge and insights with everybody as
we go through this transition.
[pause]
ANGELA:Hi, I'm Angela Jenks.
I am a Associate professor
of teaching at the University of
California Irvine. My pronouns are she/her/hers. I'm a light-skinned black woman,
sitting with dark curly hair, sitting
in front of a beige wall and background,
which is the one place in my house that
does not have kid toys and art on it
right now. So you might also, if you're
listening in, hear my kids playing in the
background. I started online teaching
several years ago now so I've used I
think six different platforms at this
point in various jobs at different
institutions, have focused on trying to
learn a lot about it. I move back and
forth between in class and online
teaching and I am the the editor of the
Teaching and Learning Anthropology
Journal so I've also learned a lot from
the other people who I've worked with in
that project. [pause]
NELL: Hi, everyone. I'm Nell.
I'm a white woman with short black hair
wearing glasses,
and I'm in my living room right now. I'm
the Accessibility and Meetings
Coordinator for the American
Anthropological Association, and I have a
lot of experience creating accessible
classrooms and identifying what
accessible practices to incorporate into
online teaching, which is going to be
particularly important as access needs
shift from doing face-to-face
interactions to online spaces. You may
have noticed that all of the presenters
on the Zoom right now provided visual
descriptions where we identified what we
look like, where we are and these audio
descriptions are a way to ensure
heightened accessibility and so that way
there is audio information without
relying on visuals. Another point about
accessibility is that this webinar is
not closed captioned, but we will be
providing a recording following this and
that will be closed captioned for anyone
who needs access to those captions
following the event. At this point though,
I will turn it back to Mike.
MIKE: All right,
thank you, and I just want to mention
also that even if you don't have
students who have disabilities in your
classes, a lot of your students are going
to be doing dishes or watching the kids
or something like that and providing
these audio descriptions is really
useful so we're really going to
emphasize a lot of this sort of
multi-modality. Doing lots of, doing
things sort of in multiple mediums
throughout your course. So we wanted to
start though not just with technology
and tools and tips, but really with a big
picture thing, and that is, you know, using
this as a moment to reflect on our core
goals and values as teachers, and so we
wanted to bring up this idea of
backwards teaching, which we're going to
start essentially with the "why", not "what"
or "how". We often start teaching by
thinking about what we want to teach.
We're really excited about particular
material, or we might be excited about
our particular method or a particular
tool or technology, but really what
really matters is "why", and I'll just tell
you my "why" and maybe you can come up
with one for yourself as well.
The "why" that I keep in my head as I create
my class is that I want to create
voracious self-learners who lean into
difference, and if the thing that I'm
doing isn't helping to create voracious
self-learners who lean into difference,
then I scrap it. So then I can move to
the "how" and, for me, if I want to create
voracious self-learners who lean it a
difference, well then the "how" is- are
things like I want to show them great
free materials that they can find on
their own: podcast, documentaries, great
books, and so on. I want to help them find
a rhythm and a way that they can work
this into their busy life and one way to
do that is by showing them these great
audio resources that they can use while
they're going about their busy life. I
like to create challenges rather than
assignments like, and I think of these as
things that actually get them out and
practicing these things in their daily
life, and ultimately, I also want to build
a passionate learning community, where
the passion for learning spreads. So
ultimately then, you get down to the "what",
like what actually appears on the site,
what is the material to site. It ends up,
you know, being some things that maybe
traditionally you don't think of as
being in a classroom, but there are
things like like podcasts, many of them
popular podcasts; passionate readings,
these are me like actually reading the
material to them and with them, and also
trying to nurture great conversations. So
that's where I'm starting from, and I
think a lot of what you'll see in what
follows will come from that and Angela
had some thoughts on this as well. [pause]
ANGELA: Yeah, I think that's really important to start
with what you want students, to think about
what you want students to remember about
your class ten years from now. What do you
want them to be doing? And I think that's,
that's really an excellent practice for
all teaching. I think we have to think
about too, though, in this present moment
that we can't really expect everything
to continue with business as usual. It's
not going to be business as usual and so
also reframing our goals in backward
course design. So we might have the
learning goals. We might have the goals
of what you want students to remember, to
be able to do, but in this moment, also we
have to think about all of the, about
broader students needs. So I have been
been reframing some of my classes, and I
teach on the quarter system so instead
of switching a class right now, we're
actually in final exams,
and we're getting ready to start new
classes, brand new classes that are going
to be running remotely, and really
thinking about the role that that class
might play in giving stability to
students. That I can't expect them maybe
to do everything that I normally would
expect exactly the same outcomes in a
face-to-face class during the regular
quarter, but maybe I can provide some
familiarity, some routine, some social
contact while we're all isolated, to
think about all these other needs too as
really important outcomes and then how
we build the class around trying to meet
those needs.
MIKE: Yeah. [pause] Yeah, so we're just
gonna, if you're following along in the
document which is that bit.ly/AAAtips
you see our first tip is
to build community and we have several
ways to do that. One way is to to
actually just kind of do a welcome video.
Now, traditionally I would do a welcome
video that's sort of like three things
about me, and then I just invite students
to do it as well. These are really like
low stress things. You know, I invite them
just to take out their phone and do this.
This isn't- doesn't have to be like a
really big production by any means, and
this has worked really well, but I think
if you're transitioning midstream you
probably already know a lot about your
students, and they probably already know
a lot about you, so instead I would
suggest maybe just showing them your
space. So I made a quick video sort of
showing them my basement space here with
the cats and the kitty litter and the
old toys and all that and it just sort
of humanizes the space and then of
course I invite them to do the same, and
this this is sort of our opening trial
discussion you might say and it- it
brings a lot of warmth to the class. It
brings a lot of sense of like we're in
this together. So I really recommend
doing that. If you've never been on
camera, if you struggle to be on camera,
which I do, this is also a great way just
kind of break the ice and help you
realize that this isn't about performing,
it's about connecting, and that just
takes all the edge off for me. I used to
have so much stress about teaching
online because I thought I had to
perform. I thought I had to do a TED
talk every time you know and just be
amazing. It helps so much to realize that
this is really just about connecting
and not performing and then this really
helps you be present in your class, so
tha- you know that it's hard to build
presence in an online situation, but
video is a huge help for doing that. So
there are some ACUE sources that I've
linked to on the bitly document, if you'd
like to look at those, and one of them is
for creating a welcome video. [pause]
ANGELA: I mean I've done that with still images too.
MIKE: Yeah. ANGELA: So using the discussion forums,
for example, posting sometimes video
introductions, but some time still image and
asking students to do, MIKE: Yeah. ANGELA: to post any
image of anything that is important to them. 
MIKE: Yeah, so- ANGELA: Lots of people post their pets
especially or fake pictures of favorite
foods that they have, so it- it humanizes
everybody, and it gives everybody something to talk
about the connect with too. MIKE: And it's a
lower barrier of entry if you just do a picture,
right, so. ANGELA: Yeah. MIKE: That's good, yeah.
NELL: Yeah, so just expanding on that there was
actually a question in the chat
regarding ADA issues if videos aren't
captioned, which is correct, and so it's
important to make sure that what other
videos are being created include
captions, and there are a ton of options
to provide automated captioning. Actually,
somebody shared on the chat that there's
Panopto, WebEx, Zoom, YouTube. Just uploading
your video to any of these options where
there can be automated captioning,
specifically YouTube, and then changing
that captioning and ensuring its
an- its accuracy, so it's not saying anthropology, 
it's em through logic or some odd words
like that, ensure that they're accessible.
Additionally, as we've been modeling
again make sure that the videos include
in-the-moment audio descriptions, much as
we were providing, or provide an
additional text regarding that
information as a visual description
written down. If you have the time and
want to, you can make an additional audio
track, but just providing those visual
descriptions to make a video completely
audio will make it more accessible to
not just bl- blind and low-vision students,
but to anyone who is switching over
to audio learning. JEFF: And also, if I could, oh wait,
if I could just quickly for those who came in
late to this webinar, again, I want to
point to, if you scroll to the bottom of
your screen, you'll see a number of icons,
and you'll see a chat icon, and that's
how you can follow along, ask questions
as well. Thanks. ANGELA: I was going to highlight
a couple other ways to really create
community in your class, and one is
really break up students into smaller
groups. So I'm currently, as I'm preparing
for classes 250 students that's moving
online, and so I'm not expecting seems to
be communicating in any way with all 249
other people in the class, but using
small groups of about 6 to 8 people is
really what's recommended so that in the,
if they're doing discussions in the
discussion forum, you have those six to
eight people. You can set Zoom meetings
so that you preset who the students are
in various breakout rooms. You can make
those the same six to eight students who
are in the discussion sec- in a
discussion group within Canvas or
whatever course management system that
you're using. So it means throughout the
class they have- they only are really
communicating with a small group of
other students. They get to know those
students throughout the class. It also
creates, especially at this time, a kind
of buddy system, where you have somebody
else who you can call on you can ask
questions about who you know very well.
One of the other things, especially right
now, that can be helpful is to create a
informal communication option for
students. So this might be a separate,
ungraded or even an extra credit
discussion forum, where students can just
check in. It doesn't have to be questions
about the class. It doesn't have to be
about assignments. They can just check in
about how are they doing, how are they
managing life, what kinds of resources do
they need. This can be something where
you as the instructor are also checking
in. So showing like, or even
discussing like, these are conditions
under which I am trying to work. Here are
resources that I've learned about that
might help you as well. It can be an
informal space for- for conversation. You
can see on the screen there, the
recommendation for some text that you
could use to do that.
MIKE: Yeah and, so now we're going 
to move on to, again,
if you're following on the Google Doc, we're
now to the next big bullet point, which
is creating a simple online course
structure with a weekly rhythm. We
thought this was super important, so we
did elevate that right up close to the
top, right under community, and so one of
our first recommendations is to use the
modules function. This is something I
resisted early on, maybe other people
resisted it, but one of the best things
about it is that it maximizes all the
accessibility features that are built
into your LMS. It ensures a clean look
across platforms so it looks great on
mobile. It allows you to organize all
your materials really nicely. You can
actually see, if you're following on the
Google Doc, Angela's posted her example
there, and you can see my example on the
screen they look almost the same, and
it's this- there is this sort of consistent-
consistency that gets created that
students get familiar with, and they
might actually see it in their other
classes because they might be familiar
with the modules from other classes. It
also creates a clear to-do list. That's
especially true in canvas, which is very
nice, and it also limits student access
to information behind the scenes. Like
things that you don't want them to
accidentally see. Stuff from last year or
something that you're teaching. Like, once
you put in a module it's clean, and it's
there, and they know what to do. I love
also how, you know, when you click on- on
things, you get this nice "Next" button.
Those little things are really, really
valuable. Another thing that I do is, I
try to, you can see here how it works
really well in mobile. I found that a lot
of my students are accessing the
material through mobile, so it's nice
that it's a clean interface between the
two, and then the other thing is you can
see how consistent they are, and I always
just have like four things. There's the
materials,
there's the quiz, there's the discussions, and there's an activity, and there's only
three things due every week. It's the
same three things due every week, and that
kind of consistency creates this sort of
weekly rhythm that I think can be really
useful. Once you have that rhythm, and you
can see here there there's an ACUE
sheet for establishing that rhythm,
which includes not only the student
rhythm, but also your rhythm, which is so
useful for your own well-being. Boy,
online classes can just seem totally
chaotic when you first start. A lot of
people start to realize that it's
actually much more work than teaching in-
in class, but it doesn't have to be if
you can create this rhythm and have a
really clear set expectations for
yourself and for your students. So along
with that we also would recommend making
an orientation video where you just walk
people through the class. Again, this
doesn't have to be like high production
quality. It can just be you navigating
the class, and if you want you might use
a screen recorder like
Screencast-o-matic. I just point to this
one because it's free, and it launches
online. It's very easy to use, and just
record yourself going through the class
and showing the students what it looks
like and what they can expect week to
week.
I think- ANGELA: Yeah, that- [overlapping voices] Oh, sorry to- MIKE: No, go ahead. [overlapping voices]
ANGELA: can be a really important
part of really teaching students how to
take an online class. It's important to
remember that right now, the students who you
have did not sign up to take online
classes. Many of them have never done
that before. They don't know what to
expect. They don't know how it's going to
run. Much like many of the faculty who
are starting that, we're not really sure
exactly what this online class will look
like. So making expectations really clear
and explicit for students. Letting them
know the kinds of hardware and software
that you're hoping they have. We'll talk
a little bit about checking in to see if
they do in fact have that, but letting
them know what they might need, how much
time they should be expecting to spend
on the class, where they can find the
materials, what they should do if they're
having trouble. Being very clear and
explicit about all of those those
expectations, and really giving them
advice to help them figure out "How do I
figure out my schedule when all of
everything is so chaotic right now? When
should I be anticipating that things
will be posted? When should I be
anticipating that I can turn them?" 
Helping make that rhythm really clear to them.
MIKE: Yeah, and I wonder if at some point
maybe we should maybe get explicit about
what we think of as a good rhythm and
how much we expect from our students in
this coronavirus moment.
You know, I think personally my
expectations are- are reduced, you know,
because I think they're gonna have a lot
to deal with, so I don't know if- if we
could all sort of share our number that
we have in mind. For me I- and push back
on me if you think this is not a good
number, but I'm sort of thinking about
six hours a week on my class, which is
quite a bit less than I normally ask for.
But I'm hoping that for students are
really inspired by it, of course that'll
blow up and inflate to many more hours.
You know, I hope that some will become
passionate, and it'll be 10 or more hours,
but boy, I just from what I'm hearing
from students, 6 is my number right now.
I'm willing to you know be pushed back
on this. I'd love to hear what other
people think about that. Yeah so, [laughter] so now
moving on to the the nex- oh, we- we also
thought, at the end of week 1, since this
is all so new to everybody, your students
and yourself, give yourself a space to
revise at the end of week one. So I'd
recommend having a discussion at the end
of week one, and then respond to students
and their feedback on how it's going, and
that might be a point where you know
maybe you- you decide instead you want to
do nine hours a week. You want to sort of,
your framing in your head, that you're
gonna give them about nine hours a week.
Maybe you'll get some pushback and say,
like, "I just can't do that in this in
this moment", and you can adjust, make
adjustments. Maybe your discussions
aren't working out the way you thought.
That's a common complaint with online
teaching. It's quite difficult to get a
vibrant discussion going, but you can
just work with the students, and by
showing them that you're working with
them, I think that'll help out a lot so,
this is just an example. ANGELA: Yeah, mid-term
check-ins and feedback are often
recommended, but I think it's an
important point that we don't want to
wait until partway through the class or
halfway through the class, for those of
us who are starting new classes, to
really do that check-in, but doing it
right away to see how things are going
is really important. MIKE: Yeah, yeah, so
definitely do one right at the end of
the first week, and- and- and be willing to
adjust. All right, the next one is about
building materials easily, and this is so
important right now, because one of my
big concerns for all of you is that
you're going to be killing yourself
trying to create awesome materials,
and that's- that is it's so hard to
create even a 10-minute high-quality
video could easily take up your whole
week. As somebody who produces these
things, I can tell you, it's not easy, and
it takes a lot of time. So I definitely
recommend looking for stuff that's
already out there, looking for great
materials that are already out there. So
we've gathered a few that you can see in
the Google Doc. This is really just the
beginning. There's a lot of people
creating lists like this right now on
Facebook groups and things like that.
We'll add some links to those as well.
I'll mention a few here. I've been- I've
co-created this with Ryan Klataske, This
anth101.com, and- and you can see if you're doing like
an intro class, there's these sort of
familiar categories, and if you- if you
click on one of these, it'll take you to
basically a little mini lecture that
we've done. These are actually sort of
out-in-the-world lectures. Like this is
when I went to Vietnam to find out who
made my suit, but then we also provide
other, you know, popular documentaries, just different things that might relate
to the material, and this could actually
essentially replace lectures in a
situation like this, so that's worth
considering we- we have several resources
like that. You can just look at any of
them. Like if you do language, you could look
at what we have for language. We have a
podcast year from Radio Lab, things like
that. There's also, just look for TED
videos. Like anthropology TED brings up
hundreds of videos. There's great podcasts. 
Angela actually did a great podcast
about podcasts, [laughter] and now she's- 
ANGELA: My students love
podcast, I will say. Every time I use one, they
they talk about how much they want more
podcast. That's one of their favorites
medium to listen to information on, and
you don't have to make a brand new one
yourself. MIKE: Yeah, they're so good, and I hear
the same thing for my students, and again,
a lot of these students are busy. They
have to do more than one thing at once,
and having something they can listen to
is really useful. This- there's so many
popular ones out there. It doesn't have
to be just one that starts with anthro.
It doesn't have to be AnthroPod. It doesn't have
to be This Anthro Life. There's a lot of
popular ones out there, like Invisbiilia. Angela discusses a bunch in
the cultural anthropology discussion. So
this is Invisibilia. You can see some
of the titles here are obviously
relevant to some of your classes.
So- so those are kind of the big ones.
We'll try to provide some more resources
there as well, and maybe we should
crowdsource some of those as well, I
think. There's probably, maybe in the- in
the chat if people have things they
think we should add, please put them
there. Another thing that I do, and this
is a quick, I think it actually quick and
easy way to essentially create a lecture
for the week, if you want to replace a
lecture, is actually just to read to the
students. So take the reading for the
week, and you just you just read to them
and you know my students just absolutely
love this. Again, they can just plug it in
while they're doing other things, and I
think one of the nice things is they
sort of hear my passion for the
material. I can add commentary. I
can teach them how I read the material. Those
are all I think useful things, so. Angela, do you want?
ANGELA: Yeah, I think also offering
multiple forms of engagement so- so
thinking about, can you offer, yes, written
works, but also audio work, also maybe
some videos that students watch, for
assigned reading, thinking beyond just
journal articles and books, especially
for those of you who are switching-
switching modalities right now in the
middle of the semester. Keep in mind that
students may have left their book
somewhere that they can't get back to.
They may not have access to some of the
materials they had at the beginning of
the class. Oftentimes, things like blog
posts and op-eds and fictional work or
news articles, these are all places where
you can, you might be able to get at some
of the issues that you're trying to
discuss in the class in a way that's a
little easier for students to digest. One
of the other things that I've done for
readings is to use collective annotation
platform. So Perusall is the one that I've
used most recently. This is a free
e-reader where you can create an account
for a class, and all of the students can
then register for it, and you can upload
PDFs, and you can comment on the PDF. So I
put articles in there and then I add my
own commentary really walking students
through the article, especially for
students who haven't taken an
anthropology before who- or who aren't
familiar with how to do reading in
anthropology, I can point out like, "Pay
attention to this", or
"Remember this concept", or "What do you
think this means? Can you think of an
example of this?", and then I require
students to include so many comments of
their own throughout the each article.
Students have had great feedback on this.
I've used it in some smaller classes, but
I just this last quarter used it in a
250-person class again, breaking students
up into small groups so they only saw
the comments of a small number of other
students, but it worked really well to
help them engage with the readings and
to really teach them how to do the reading, 
instead of requiring a quiz at the end.
MIKE: Yeah. Yeah, and I've had
a lot of luck with stuff like that as well.
It's, any sort of engaged reading I think
is very powerful. So the next sort of
section we have is just basically how to
start each week, and we've recommended
three things, both for accessibility and
for engagement and organization,
simplicity, and so on. One is just a
printable overview. So this is just an
example from one of my classes,
Introduction to the World's Religions,
where I've just taken like the 12 big
ideas or big questions for the week, and
put them into a single document. This is
a great way to organize the- the class,
organize your own thoughts as well.
There's actually a module road map that
ACUE provides. It sort of provides little
questions. They have a little template
here that you can kind of think about,
you know, what are your core outcomes
what kind of assignments do you have for
the week and make sure they all connect
and you can provide that for students. So
one thing- so the first thing we- we
suggest is the printable overview. The
second thing is send an email that is
really clear. It shows like what to do,
and what you're covering that week, and
why it matters, and then the last thing
is we recommend doing like a meeting,
which you can just record, and that can
be like your opening video for the week,
and so this is actually what my class
looks like when all this is done. You got
the outline that you can print here.
You've got the reading that I've done
here that you can click on to listen to,
and then, this is like essentially a Zoom
meeting, and you can see I'm holding the- 
the sheet there and talking
to them about it, and then students can
ask me questions and that pr- that
basically provides a 13-minute overview
for the week. It's a tiny, little, mini
lecture of sorts that almost produces
itself, you know, because it's just a
recording of a class meeting. Let's see, I
think, those are, yeah, that's the- that's the
main thing for how to start the week,
and then Nell is gonna take over for a
bit here and talk about some accessibility.
NELL: Yeah, absolutely. Can everyone hear me?
MIKE: Yep. NELL: Yes? Okay, thank you.
Just building off of what Michael was
saying regarding the one clear email, in
those emails, identify the important
things by bold, so there's a very clear
visual cue. It's modeled in the document
as well, so students can see what exactly
needs to be done, and the recorded online
meeting being live is really crucial for
a lot of students with executive
functioning difficulties, because a lot
of people in that community of the
disability community are majorly
stressing about the lack of
accountability with online classes. So
having a one-point, check-in meeting on Zoom, that is a consistent meeting that
is requiring people to go to is going to
be crucial to support students who
really did not sign up for online
classes, for a lot of different reasons.
So continuing on in the accessibility
and providing and developing class using
Universal Design for Learning, make sure
that you provide materials in multiple
formats, and we've been talking about
this---whether it's providing a written
version, a video, audio---make sure that
whatever is critical has multiple
formats where possible. Don't provide
information only in one format that you
need students to understand. We have a
listed a few great resources. The first
resources is created by Dr. Aimi Hamraie, and it's "Accessible Teaching in
the Time of COVID-19", and so this
resource really outlines a ton of
suggestions by the disability community
specifically
about how exactly to create an
accessible online course. The resource
outlines what to do if you're doing
lecture, what to do if you're doing
discussion, what to consider, and so take
the time to really go through that and
build accessibility into your transition
onto an online class. That will ensure
that the majority of your students are
able to access it without having to come
forward and say they have a new access
need. A second great tool is "20 Tips for
Teaching an Accessible Online Class" by
Sheryl Burgstahler, and so this is a
resource that just outlines 20 really quick
tips that should be consistently at the
top of your mind, and where possible,
making sure that you're incorporating
them into your classroom design. A lot of
it is simply good pedagogy to ensure
that an online course is available to as
many students as possible, and then the
next resource is just remembering to
move beyond boilerplate accessibility
accommodation. Accessibility is much
broader than ADA accommodations. It is
about the very design of creating a
course for everyone, and if you're able
to create multiple as- multiple
formats and materials, you'll be okay, and
there's a great comment here about how a
lot of accessibility supports
international students as well.
The primary basic accessible teaching
strategies to keep in mind for online
materials are outlined by the article by
Aimi Hamraie, which include image
descriptions and alt text for all images
and videos. Any kind of images you're
showing is that- you want students to
learn from need to include an image
description. Again, it's the issue of
there may be students who won't have
that visual because they won't have
access to a video or to internet
connection that provides good
downloadable rates. Videos need to
ensure that they have visual
descriptions and audio descriptions as
we've been describing throughout the video.
[spoken Spanish in the background]
JEFF: Ok, for some- NELL: I'm gonna-  JEFF: We have someone else coming in. If we could
remind everyone to mute yourselves. Again,
if you scroll to the bottom of your
screen, you'll see- put your cursor to the
bottom of the screen, you'll see a number
of icons, all the way to the left, you'll
see mute, so mute yourselves. Thank you.
NELL: Thank you. Videos need to include
captions or if captions aren't available to
be incorporated into the video, try to
identify a transcript and provide that
alongside with the video. PDFs with OCR,
or optical character recognition, for
screen reader access. Some of your
students may be switching from reading-
from reading written out copies or
printed copies to PDFs, and they might be
using a screen reader to read
automatically what's on the document, and
again, there's a really great tool to
help screen- to check for screen reader
accessibility called Webaim, and that's
on our document, and we'll make sure to
link that. MIKE: Yeah, I wanted to add one thing.
It kind of goes along with everything
we've been talking about, and that is
another accessibility issue is just
students not having online access. Maybe
they only have high-speed Internet once
a week or something like that, so if you
could create one download for those
students who only have you know one shot
a week to get this done, do that and one
way I do that is I create a single
downloadable mp3, and I make sure all of
my materials have an audio version. So
that's why, one of the reasons why I read
to them, is that creates an audio version
of that, and then I know that my students
can download this this one 3-hour mp3. [laughter] It
also holds me accountable if I've told
them, there's going to be three hours of
material for the week, I know that when I
build that mp3, if it's, you know, it turns
out to be six hours, I overshot. So I
really like to create one master mp3
that they can download, and then they can
just listen throughout the week when
they have time. ANGELA: I think one of the other
important things to think about is to- is
to ask students actually
what they need. So we're doing a lot of
kind of thinking about what students
might need, but really communicating with
them directly to figure out what they
need. You'll see in the Google Doc,
there's a link to a sample survey that
that can be used to do this, can be
adapted to gather information from
students. So they really ask them do you
have access to high speed internet, "Do
you have access to a computer?", "Will you
be able to watch videos?", "Will you be able
to join a Zoom call, like this, a
synchronous Zoom call?", which I'm guessing
most, it will be hard in large classes to
get everybody able to do something at
the same time, and so you can adapt
really around some of the- some of the
needs that students have. I think it's
also really important to keep in mind
right now that those needs are going to
change, and they may change very fast if
people are getting sick, if they are care
giving, if people are losing jobs. I mean
there's a lot of instability right now
that we can't count on things being the
same. I mean they're different than they
were one week ago. We can't count on them
being the same a couple weeks from now
as they are now. So having frequent
communication with students is important
too. I started asking students some of
these questions and about what they want
as we move remotely and what faculty can
do to best support them, and the two
biggest things they've said are
flexibility and communication, are the
two things that they're going to need
going forward, but really using a survey
like this to ask your own students is
also very helpful. MIKE: And I think that has
done some of the other things that you
mentioned in the document that are
linked in the Google Doc like this. You
know, document on how to support students
during COVID-19, which has a lot of
useful recommendations, and then the
building flexibility into the course
right at the- right at the front, right? So,
you want to mention a few of your thoughts here. Yeah.
ANGELA: Sure.
So that resource that's up on the screen
right now is especially focused on basic
needs. So remembering the students have
needs within the class, accessibility to
documents to videos, but also a lot of
people, a lot of our students always, but
even more intensely right now, are facing
basic needs concerns. So not having enough
access to reliable food, to housing, to
healthcare, certainly, and so this
document is focused on things
that institutions and universities can
do to try to help connect their students
to those- those resources as well.
Building flexibility, I think, into the
course from the very beginning is
important both for students so that they
have this flexibility. It's important for
accessibility, but it's also really
helpful for instructors and faculty, so
that you don't have to individually
respond to every single incident that
comes up, or especially for those of us
who are teaching hundreds of students at
a time, we should not be the arbiters of
what's an important emergency or what-
what other people's priorities are, and
recognizing the students have other
priorities, and they need to be able to
work around those. So there's a
couple of ways that I have done this, and
one is if I have multiple assignments of
the same type, like students are doing a
weekly journal assignment, or there are
several quizzes, I build it so that
students can drop the lowest grades. So
if say, we have 10 discussion sections
over a 10-week quarter students, students have 
to go to s- to six of them. They have to
participate in six of them. They can
choose which six. If they miss a couple,
they don't need any sort of
documentation. They don't need to let us
know. They can just automatically miss a
couple. Same thing for things like
quizzes and exams. If you have three
quizzes, students can drop one of those-those
quizzes, and this both provides
flexibility for students, but it also
encourages- encourages progressive
learning, so students do less well on
the first exam, they can drop that grade
and do better on later ones, or they can
miss one without any need to discuss
makeups or anything else.
Flexible deadlines are also really
important right now.
So trying to have a single routine
deadline, 1 deadline every week in many
of my classes, when I've taught online, I
make everything due, say like midnight on
Sunday, and so students always know that
everything is, they're always going to
have that- that deadline. A lot of
flexibility is really important right
now. If you can provide grace periods for
example so here's the deadline that
you'd like students to aim for, but there's no
late penalties for two days after that,
or whatever makes sense for the
particular
assignment, and the needs for,
obviously, we have grade reporting
deadlines as well, but whatever you can,
to provide "No Questions Asked" grace
periods. I've provided late passes to
students that I called "If Stuff
Happens" pass that all you have to do is
turn this in late and say, "I'm using
'My stuff happens pass'.", because stuff
happens to all of us. I think doing as
much of that as possible right now will
really help to support students, and then
the last thing is do not require
doctor's notes. Even in the best of
situations, doctor's note assume that
students have access to healthcare. It
assumes that they have the money, even if
they have health insurance, that they
have the money to pay copay, so think
about how much does the doctor's note
cost?
Even with my excellent university
insurance that I'm lucky to have, it costs
me 20 dollars every time I get a
doctor's note. That kind of demand, especially in this time when a lot of
people are going to be sick. A lot of
your students, even if they themselves
are not, they may be taking care of
other people who are sick. It's an
enormous burden to require that kind of
documentation. I think it's really
important to just trust students that
they know what they need and to do
whatever we can to build into the course
a way to accommodate those needs.
MIKE: I think this also is gonna relate to self
care which we're going to get to at the
end, but if you have really complicated
demands on your students for verifying
these things, you're gonna spend way too
much time [laughter] wrestling with students who
have missed a deadline, so building these
things in a very like fair, and
transparent way that's open to everyone
I think is really important, and I- like
you teach 250 people, you know, so these
types of things, I thinks, work for that, right?
ANGELA: Yeah. MIKE: So- ANGELA: And there's people in 
my department who teach up to almost 500, so-
MIKE: Yeah. ANGELA: Yeah, there's a level of scale that
increases quite a bit there. MIKE: Yeah, yeah so
the next thing we're going to talk about
are assignments, and we're really not
going to spend a lot of time on this
this time because it deserves its own
sort of section, so we're gonna do more
of that next week. That does also give us
some time to brainstorm and hear your
ideas, so
if you look at the Google Doc, we
actually have a invitation to share your
own, like, assignment ideas, and I'll go
ahead and put that in the chat as well
so if you want to click on that, you'll
see it's a blank document at this point,
but we'd love it if you'd be willing to
share a few of the things that you're
planning on doing. You know, just a few
things that came to mind for me is- is
sort of, I'm just sort of thinking
philosophically like where I'm framing
myself, I go back to my "why".
You know, my "why" is, you know, how do I
create voracious self-learners who are
open to difference, and so I could
imagine, for example, adapting challenge 8
from ANTH101, which normally is just to
connect with someone from a foreign
country, or to find somebody who's
actually helped create something that
you own from a foreign country, and we've
had great success with this, but I think
now, in this moment, it'd be a great time
for students to reach out to other
people throughout the world, through
social media, and see how other places
are dealing with the COVID-19 moment,
and what it looks like from their
perspective. I think that could be a
really powerful assignment. Another one
would be just to have students do, like,
mini ethnographies of CV-19-related
issues around them.
How are people thinking about CV-19
around them? You know, I imagine
even on this discussion, we're in
different parts of the United States, and
I'm sure that the sort of political take
and cultural take on just how dangerous
this is right now would vary quite a
bit around the nation, and those types of
things can be really interesting. So one
thing to think about is that when you
move online, you don't have to think of
it as, say, you know, it's like out of the
classroom, and therefore, worse. There are
some interesting advantages and
opportunities that open up as well, and I
like to think of an online class as more
of an out-in-the world class and think
about how students who are out there in
different places could contribute to a
discussion or even like a group research
project by doing these mini
ethnographies, and then aggregate those
in a group discussion to think about
broader patterns, what you're seeing. So
those are some of the directions I'll be
going as I think about
things for next week, but I'd love to
hear your ideas as well, and Angela you
had some neat ideas here as well.
ANGELA: Yeah, and so this is something we'll be
talking about more next week. I'm a
medical anthropologist, and so I'm
teaching a class, for example, next
quarter on health inequity that I'm
currently reframing to really focus on
COVID-19 because it's a moment where all
of the things that we're talking about
in the class and all of the structural
inequalities we look at are immediately
apparent. That class is also, though I
focused it the last couple of times I've
taught it on really trying to help
students think through what we can do
about some of the inequities, and so
that's also part of how when I'm
thinking about what my students need, not
just to learn in the current moment, but
to actually survive the current moment
to get through it, I'm thinking about
what we can do to kind of battle the
helplessness and the hopelessness that
can come from thinking about large-scale
inequities that anthropologists are so
good at revealing, and so I'm trying to
restructure the class to really think
about okay we are seeing this issue what
are some of the things that we can could
be done about this that we could
advocate for to be done to address some
of these issues hoping that it gives
students a sense of kind of empowerment
of seeing themselves as part of the
solutions and to some of the issues that
are happening now, but also will happen
as we- we move forward in the systems as
we started with that this is going to be
really a paradigm shifting experience.
Some other smaller things we are
thinking about when you're developing
assignments, I think, the- the challenges
that might be pointing out, and that he's
developed are a really good example of
how you can think beyond research papers
and exam, which tend to be the two I
think most used kind of assignments, but
can students be producing op-eds, for
example, or making a video with a final
product or a podcast or graphic
narratives in medical anthropology? I've
had students recently making graphic
illness narratives. Can they do creative art
or use web resources? There's a link in
here to a discussion of what an "unessay"
in anthropology. The link is not
working- MIKE: Yeah. [laughter] ANGELA: - right this
second. So it's through Teaching and Learning
Anthropology, which got hacked yesterday, so
we are working on getting that back up,
but I left the link there because it
will it- will come up again. We also have-
also using multiple low stakes forms of
assessment instead of a couple of big
ones, so even if your regular class runs
on you know two exams and a research
paper, having these really large major
assessments is going to be especially
challenging for students right now. So
having multiple lower stakes things,
multiple quizzes that they can take,
short reflections, little discussion
posts, and joining a small group
discussion, perhaps live if that works
for your class, having journal
assignments, scaffolded assignments where
you take maybe a bigger project and
really break it down into smaller steps
that are much more manageable for
students when they're- they're
overwhelmed with a number of things that
are happening. And then you can also
consider even giving students a choice
in things so this is this- this idea of the
kind of choose your own adventure class, where
here are some assignments, you can pick
three of them to do, whatever it is that
works with your current life situation,
with where you're living, with the amount
of internet access you have. Perhaps
students could participate in an
asynchronous discussion on the
discussion board online, or they could
come to a live discussion. They can
choose whichever one works for them.
They could write a book review about
something, or they could give a
presentation to students. Some of that
depends again on the size of classes and
what what exactly you're teaching, but
thinking about if there are kind of
multiple options that you can can give
students so that they can figure out
what works- works best for them right now.
MIKE: Yeah. Yeah, that's great, and as we move
into an assessment and thinking about
how we're going to assess these things, I
wanted to mention a couple things. You
mentioned like, like, really small
assignments that are scaffolded and
built to something bigger. I would just
recommend and- and encourage you to think
about maybe some of those don't actually
have to be graded, or they just have to
be graded as sort of "done/not done",
because you're gonna be so busy you're
gonna have to, like, sort of think about
your time, and one way to save a lot of
time is to have "done/not
done" assignments essentially, and put trust
in your students, and also maybe try to
build assignments that are inherently
interesting and fun, so students, you know,
students are gonna try hard on them and
do their best on them, and you don't
really have to grade them carefully.
That's kind of one of the things we
think about when we do our challenges in
ANTH101, and I'll just give you an
example here what this looks like. We
actually have students use hashtag ANTH101, and there's about maybe 50 classes
around the world using it, and you can
actually just go here and you can see,
you know, students posting different
things from their challenges, and a lot
of them are just sorta inherently
interesting to the students, so I think
that's why they do them and why they
like to do them. There's also a sort of
social piece here, you know, here we're
using Instagram. By using Instagram, it
goes somewhat public. They can- they can
adjust how public it is, and we even have
a non-public option for them as well,
where they just use Canvas, but- but it
does create some encouragement for them
and sort of the social, and also a sense
of presence and connection to their
classmates, so we've really had a lot of
luck with that, and they sort of like low
level very sort of easy assignments but
engaging assignments as well, and that I
think leads us into kind of how we want
to assess in ways that build community,
and a sense of being together. One thing
that I like to do is actually just use
video for feedback so, especially in
online classes. If they're doing a big
project I like to get on the video
one-on-one with a student, and just, you
know, talk to them about the project,
rather than sending them a sort of
faceless text response to their project.
I like to talk to them about, you know,
what I see
is working, what's not working, and so on,
and then if you have a big group, if you
have a large class, yeah, you can do group
feedback by video as well, which also is
a great way to increase your presence,
and Angela, you had some thoughts on
alternative grading as well. ANGELA: Yeah, I think
one thing that you mentioned could,
considering whether everything
has to be graded. The answer is no, it
doesn't all have to be graded by you.
Using "pass/no pass"
grading systems, "credit or no credit". I
saw somebody was commenting in the
chat a number of institutions are trying
to move to just blanket "pass/no pass" for
all courses coming up. I think that's a
great idea, if your institution is, or
you can can advocate for that, but other-
other approaches include things like contract
grading. There's a link in there, this is
something that I've seen most often in
the humanities, and especially
composition classes, but if you are
teaching kind of small writing-intensive
classes, this can be great to consider.
You can also have students complete a
self-assessment, so there's a link to an
article in The Chronicle of Higher Ed, so
it's behind a paywall, but if you have
campus or VPN access, this shows an
ungrading approach that the
anthropologist, Susan Blum, has developed,
and she shares in there---I could try to
find the PDF too so we can post that as
a resource for those who don't have
access behind the paywall there---but she
shares an example from I think a food
anthropology class, in which she has at
the end of the class students do a
self-reflection and self analysis of how
their learning has developed throughout
the class and then propose a grade for
themselves, and she's had great great
success with that. Yeah, I've also- I've- I
really enjoy the sort of ungrading approach
or the "not yet" grading [laughter] as I think of.
As I, throughout the semester, I just
don't give, sometimes, I don't give any
grades, and I just give feedback, and then
you know we're building something
together, and I have an image of this
that I- I used and I actually share this
with my students, you know, like,
"Assignment one gets you to this level,
assignment two this level" and so on, and
we're building towards something that's
really worth it, you know, like that- that
you're gonna really care about, and one
of the nice things is when students get
that "not yet" grade, I actually try to
create community at that moment as well
by saying, "Hey, let's- let's get everybody
up to that first platform, and so let's
all help each other understand
the concepts and ideas," and that creates
a sense of helping one another in a
sense that we're all in this together
and so on. So, so I really value that kind of grading 
as well. ANGELA: This is something you have
to explain to students. MIKE: Yeah. ANGELA: When I 
started experimenting with this, they are very
concerned about it- MIKE: They are, absolutely. 
ANGELA: - at first, and so this is
something where also it's really good
to help try to help students understand
what this will mean for them, what
exactly grading will look like, but
really, yeah, releasing the kind of
pressure on, on the numbers of points
that people are getting, and really on
the the letter grades themselves and
focusing it more on what your overall
goals are, and reassuring students that
it will be- it will be fine
in the end, is yeah, can- can help you
adjust. I mean some of these things are
helpful in our kind of regular teaching
practices too, but especially right now.
MIKE: Yeah, and I think your comment also
speaks to a note about being careful
with these things,
you know, because you can create anxiety
by not providing any grades at all, right?
And people feel like they're swimming
and wondering like, "How am I actually
doing?" you know, "Am I actually gonna be in
line to get that A that I need?" So, you
know, be careful with this method, and it
works if you have a strong connection
with your students, and they can trust
you, and all those types of things, and
you trust them. It's trickier I think in
larger classes, you know, it can be tricky,
but it's definitely a good idea. Yeah, so
the last thing we want to talk about, and
then we'll open up to some questions, is
just self-care for yourself.
One of the nice things that ACUE provides
is this guide to establishing
expectations for your teaching presence.
Basically, make sure your students know
that you're not going to be online at
certain hours, you know, and creating a
time like a really clear time that you
will be very responsive. I have- I tell my
students that I have office hours from
this time to this time, and I also tell
them I'm going to go to zero inbox at
that time, and they won't necessarily
hear from me the other 23 hours of the
day,
but during that hour they can trust that
they will get a response by noon that
day because my office hours are
typically 11 a.m. to noon, and I just and
make sure I go to zero inbox at that
point. That's- that's my own personal way
of making sure I get back to them within
24 hours, but also putting limits on
myself I, and I only check email certain
hours. They know I'm not going to see
anything that goes after 6:00 p.m.,
things like that. So just put those types
of things out there.
Angela, you had a comment on this as well.
ANGELA: Yeah, I think I mean I'm along those
lines too. I think part of the- the
communication and building community in
the class is both, you know, recognizing
that your students are human beings with
really complicated lives, but also
helping them recognize that you are a
human being, who is also working with you
know, I have a two-year-old the
five-year-old here. [laughter] Like we- I- we need to
adjust our expectations, so this is how
all the work is happening, that we- we all
are kind of dealing with many of these
situations, and we're all doing our best.
Recognizing that everybody is doing
their best here and where we're going to
work together to get through this, and so
also kind of making that- that apparent
that you are also a person doing your
best in a really complicated situation.
One of the the resources links in the
document is a link to a sick faculty
guest lecture exchange spreadsheet, so
also remembering that you're not alone
in this.
This is a spreadsheet where you can go. It's
an open document, started by Bonnie
Kaiser at UCSD, and you can- you can go
and sign up for, "Here are the classes
that I already have lectures prepped on.
I could, with almost no notice, just jump
on Zoom and give somebody a lecture on
this issue.", and so this is an opportunity
for people to both share their
availability, but also if you just need
somebody to come on and give a lecture
about this issue, you can- you can call on
others too, that there are
increasingly these efforts, and other
suggestions for other efforts that would
help people I think are really welcomed
too, for ways that we can share resources
and support each other as we're- we're
all shifting online. MIKE: Yeah, yeah, it's
pretty amazing resource that's being
created there, and it's
it's beautiful, actually, to see all the
people putting themselves out there to
help each other, it's really great. So the
last thing we wanted to say is that less
is more in this situation. Being- creating
a simple structure, and maybe under
estimating in a way like how much
material you put out there, might
actually create more space for
reflection, contemplation, and spontaneous
depths. It'll create space to talk about
the things that are inevitably going to
come up over the next weeks or months.
You know, so you don't necessarily have
to build up all your materials now.
Create that, just create that nice simple
structure, with a lot of breathing room,
so that you can adjust to what, what
comes next. ANGELA: And we've given a lot of
resources here, but this isn't to
recommend that you use all of these
resources. It's really a toolkit. We're
teaching very different classes,
different size classes. Some of us are
changing the stream. Some of us are
developing brand new classes. So this is
a collection of various suggestions that
may work in a variety of types of
classes. We're really thinking about what
would work for the particular classes
that particular students you're working
with and really seeing this as a toolkit
of options to come together. MIKE: Yeah, I think,
maybe to wrap back to the beginning, is
maybe think of your own sort of mantra,
your own core, like "why", what is- why do
you teach? Why do you want- what do you
want your students to get out of this?
How do you want them to change? And you
know, give yourself like five words for
that, that you can remind yourself, and
and just stick to that, you know, and
build around that as you go.
I think maybe we're open to questions.
How much- is this officially gonna go for
29 more minutes? Is that how it works?
JEFF: Yes, it is. We are keeping it open for as long
as we need to. I do want to thank
everyone for, I'll tell you what, as soon
as the questions were popping up in the
chat room, not only were you all
answering, but our audience was providing
a lot of wonderful resources, and
knowledge to it so I appreciate it. It is
kind of funny. I've seen a number
of responses that "We're all in this
together,"
and that that was just a perfect example
of it. Let me ask one quick question. I
saw it further up there, and that had to
do with, are there any security issues
with all of this?
Someone actually wrote what about
security? If you create lectures, are these
platforms ready to block sharing?
MIKE: That's uh so, I think it depends on which
platform you're using, and then yeah, and-
and I think there's moments where you
want to hoard- sort of feel like
you're in a safe space, like a sort of
special space with your students, and you
don't want it to go out. I don't- I can
only speak for my technological space,
right? So for us, I think if we want to be
very private, we use our sort of home
based video server, which is MediaSite,
and a lot of universities use MediaSite,
and then if I want it, if I'm a little
bit more loose with it, I'll make an
unlisted YouTube video, and then if I
think I've got something here that I
think everybody might be interested in, I
will make a public video on YouTube. So
that's how I go about producing my own
lectures, but I don't have anybody has
other thoughts. ANGELA: I think we have, so 
using the- if your institution has a course
management system, like you use Blackboard or
Canvas or Moodle or one of those, there's
a number of them, usually those are
designed to really restrict access to
some of the materials, and there are
particular settings you can use to
restrict that access. For video hosting,
my campus uses YuJa, which integrates
then with Canvas, and that's what we've
been recommended to put videos there as
opposed to putting them on YouTube. Keep
in mind too that there are access issues
from other institutions, I think, okay I
just see somebody posting it. So at UC
Irvine, we have a lot of students in
China who cannot access YouTube or
Google products, because of the yeah, the
IT restrictions, internet restrictions
there, so thinking about who your- your
student population is too, so we
campus resources that were specifically
designed for online classes for students
who are taking those classes from
nations where they can't can't access
some of the other public- public area.
MIKE: Yeah, and you can always duplicate
content. So you can go with the surefire
thing, you know what's going to work for
your students, which would be anything
inside your- your course management
system, and then if you want to publish
to a broader audience, then YouTube would
be a way to go. [pause] ANGELA:
I am very hesitant about encouraging
students to use social media and
incorporating unrestricted social media
in classes, especially, I have in the past
used, like Facebook or Twitter, but I
really stopped doing that um, those can
be really, unless you can create very
limited- limited access places. Social
media can be very hostile for a lot of
people especially people of color,
especially people from marginalized
backgrounds, and so thinking about if
you're having students engage with some
of these- these broader sites thinking
about the real risks that they might
might face in those places is also really 
important. MIKE: Yeah, we've had a lot of
discussions about that with the ANTH101
and how we use Instagram, and we've
mostly sort of kept it, it's not super
secure and safe, obviously, but if, we've
yet to have a problem in four or five
years, now, I think,
by using essentially hashtags and the
hashtags basically limit- they don't
limit anything because people could, I
suppose, search and find these things, but
they're really like crazy hashtags, like
I even put one in there VALSPALS1030,
and it, you know, we talk to
students about those risks, and let them
weigh those, and we don't require them to
be on the social media by any means because
of the risk, but we leave it open, and a
lot of students choose to do it because
they find it fun and interesting to do
it that way. NELL: One of the things we've done
in a course that I was one of the
co-creators on regarding social media
posts was asking students if you don't
want to keep it
there screenshot it and delete it.
Screenshot it. Share it to us. Delete it.
And that's going to also count, if that
is a concern for you about safety.
JEFF: Okay.
I'm trying to look. I don't see any other
questions. Again, I do want to thank
everyone for taking the time today to
join us and for actually uh helping us
with the entire conversation, which is,
which was a big help. Also, I want to
remind everyone that this discussion is
far from over.
Believe me. We will have- well, first of
all, I want to point out that we do have
a dis- a continuing discussion on the
AAA Communities. If you would, you
can go to our website and across the top,
you'll see Communities listed up there.
You can click on that, drag down, and
then you'll have to sign in, I believe,
and then you click on "My Communities".
You'll see a pulldown bar that looks for
"My Communities", and it'll be listed there
under COVID, COVID-19 Responsive
Teaching and Learning: Part One, and that
also gives me an opportunity to once
again pitch for, we're going to continue
this conversation,
next Tuesday, March 24th, and with another
webinar, at 1:00 p.m. Eastern Daylight
Time,
and also backtracking, this Thursday,
remind people that we're gonna have a
webinar on "Fear, Stigma, and Steps Forward,"
again at 1:00 p.m. Eastern Daylight Time.
The recording for this, and as well as
the chat- the chat stream will be posted.
We're going to post it in a number of areas,
but I would look on our- the AAA website
that has, we have a webinar page so look
for it there. We'll also, I think we can
post it in our communities, AAA
communities, and then lastly, I think
we'll also have a YouTube posting as
well,
but I would look for it in Communities
and on our webpage first. We'll get that
up. I think that's it. I want to thank our
presenters. Wonderful job. We covered a
lot and you know, judging by the chats, I
think we- we hit a lot of the targets,
that they were, a lot of it- we answered a
lot of the questions they had. So thank
you all, and hopefully, we will see and
hear you, or at least read you on
the chat room at our next webinars.
ANGELA: Thank you. MIKE: Thanks, everybody. 
NELL: Thank you. Bye, everyone.
JEFF: I think that might be it. I think
everyone is off at this point.
MIKE: Okay, great. JEFF: Thanks, Rob. [inaudible] question
Okay, so you know what, I was gonna send an email out,
but great job. I thought it went really
well. Everyone worked. It was very
conversational, and again, the- the chat
room was just fantastic. People loved it. So
I was gonna send an email. The most
important thing is Mike, can you send me
how I can get that beach background?
