 
Freedom In God's Spirit

### By Joseph Torie

### Copyright Joseph Torie 2010-2020

Smashwords Edition License Notes:

Thank you for downloading this ebook. You are welcome to share it with your friends. This book may be reproduced, copied and distributed for non-commercial purposes, provided the book remains in its complete original form and the reader is not charged to access it.

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Cover image courtesy of Master isolated images / FreeDigitalPhotos.net

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Also by Joseph Torie, published at Smashwords:

Talk with Jesus (English version)

Coming soon: Talk with Jesus (Chinese Simplified version)

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Table of Contents

Chapter 1 — The Original Blessings

Chapter 2 — God Is Right There... Wherever You Are

Chapter 3 — XX & XY

Chapter 4 — Does The Bible Contradict Itself?

Chapter 5 — The Good, The Bad And The Ugly

Chapter 6 — Man Wasn't Made For The Law

Chapter 7 — New Testament of Love!

Full Index, chapters and sections

About Joseph Torie

Other titles by Joseph Torie

Connect with Joseph
Chapter 1 — The Original Blessings

> "And God blessed them (Adam and Eve), and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth" (Genesis 1:28)

Jesus readily forgave People that the Religious People had condemned

TINA: So, Jesus -in both cases we discussed- forgave people who had broken the Law and were 'sinners'.

TIM: Yes, once when the woman who was a 'sinner' (Mary, -Lazarus and Marta's sister-) kissed Him and washed His feet with her tears (John 11: 1 and 2, Luke 7: 38).

TINA: The other when they brought the married woman caught making love with another man.

TIM: Yes, in both cases Jesus acknowledged that they were sinners, but He promptly forgave them.

TINA: Jesus forgave people for sins that many religious people would consider almost unforgivable?

TIM: Yea... but Jesus forgave people for all kinds of other sins and offenses too, not only in those cases. He forgave countless people on the spot, and on demand healed many that were sick.

TINA: While some of the religious people wanted to kill the woman caught in adultery, Jesus forgave her.

TIM: Yep... and -as we saw- He said to Simon the leper about the woman who kissed His feet: "Her sins, which are many, are forgiven; for she loved much: but to whom little is forgiven, the same loves little" (Luke 7: 47). It showed that perhaps Simon's sins were not as many or so obvious, but neither had he loved the Lord much.

TINA: Going back to my previous question: had God changed His mind about sex being good –after Adam and Eve fell from grace-?

TIM: God had always opposed any kind of sex that isn't loving, or natural, but –generally speaking- He doesn't see sex and sexuality as bad, but as something very good, something He created for good, as we saw in Genesis 1: 31.

TINA: So, sex couldn't be the 'original sin'?

Sex: the original Blessing

TIM: Not according to Scripture! If anything, as I mentioned before and quoted from the Book of Genesis, sex is part of the original blessing from God! As it says in that verse in Genesis 1: "And God blessed them (Adam and Eve), and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth...". God blessed them with sex, so they could be fruitful and multiply, love each other, have children and families. Eventually, as they multiplied, they could "...subdue it (the earth): and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moves upon the earth" (Genesis 1: 28). Sex is part of God's blessing and an integral part of His plan! In addition, it was the means for them to take possession over the earth, in which God had placed them.

TINA: Was God putting them in charge of the earth?

TIM: Yes. However, his idea wasn't for humankind to abuse the earth but instead He put them in charge, as managers. He put humankind in charge as administrators of the earth.

TINA: But my question was whether after Adam and Eve disobeyed Him, if God changed His mind about sex being a blessing...?

TIM: One way we know that God didn't change His mind about sex being very good is that many years after that -and even after people had become so wicked that God had regretted having created man- still God held the view that people should be fruitful and multiply!

"God blessed Noah, saying: Be fruitful... and fill the Earth"

TINA: Even after people had become very bad? Where does it say that in the Bible?

TIM: After the flood -roughly about 1500 years after God told Adam and Eve to be fruitful and to multiply- God told Noah and his family almost exactly the same He have said to Adam and Eve. "...God blessed Noah and his sons, saying to them, Be fruitful and increase in number and fill the earth" (Genesis 9: 1).

TINA: That was almost word for word what He had already said to Adam and Eve at the beginning! He blessed them with sex and telling them to have sex and fill the earth with their children.

TIM: Yes.

TINA: And what about being rulers? Did God still keep mankind in charge over the other creatures?

TIM: He didn't change His mind about that either, in fact it seems He increased the scope of their rule. He said: "The fear and dread of you will fall upon all the beasts of the earth and all the birds of the air, upon every creature that moves along the ground, and upon all the fish of the sea; they are given into your hands" (Genesis 9: 2).

Through Noah, God gave Mankind a second Chance

TINA: So, God kept man as a ruler over all the creatures of the earth! In addition, He said that all others creatures were going to fear and dread them.

TIM: Yes, and in verse 9: 7, He repeated again what He had said in verse 9:1 about being fruitful and multiply: "As for you, be fruitful and increase in number; multiply on the earth and increase upon it" (Genesis 9: 7). That's the third time that God said that.

TINA: So although God had to destroy all living creatures in the whole world -except for Noah, his wife, their three sons and their wives, along with a handful of animals floating in a boat- He still blessed Noah with sex again, and told him to multiply and fill the earth with their children?

TIM: Yes! God still blessed mankind with sex. Although God had regretted to have created mankind... He still gave mankind another chance and kept many of the terms of the first blessing.

TINA: Where does it say that God regretted to have created mankind?

TIM: It says it in Genesis chapter 6 –before the flood- that "...God saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually. And it repented the LORD that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him at his heart. And the LORD said, I will destroy man whom I have created from the face of the earth; both man, and beast, and the creeping thing, and the fowls of the air; for it repents me that I have made them" (Genesis 6: 5 to 7).

The Lord would never punish the Innocent!

TINA: So, God was sorry and regretted to have created mankind, but did He regret to have to destroy mankind?

TIM: Yes. He did it with great regret, but had to do it after realizing "...that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually" (Genesis 6: 5). As men multiplied, evil multiplied immensely.

TINA: But I don't get why -although He destroyed everybody- He still allowed Noah and his family to continue to live and especially to have more children? He allowed men to multiply again! Wouldn't that had inevitably multiplied evil again?

TIM: To begin with, Noah was a fairly good man, and the Lord would have never destroyed him. He would have never punished someone innocent, even if everyone else in the world was evil.

TINA: The Lord would never punish the righteous people with the unrighteous ones? Even if there is only one righteous person left?

TIM: Yes, the Lord won't punish someone unjustly. However, righteous people face many troubles in this world, which are not the Lord's fault, they are not punishments. Jesus told His disciples, "These things I have spoken unto you, that in me you might have peace. In the world you shall have tribulation: but be of good cheer; I have overcome the world" (John 16: 33). He had also said, "If you were of the world, the world would love his own: but because you are not of the world, but I have chosen you out of the world, therefore the world hates you" John 15: 19).

The Lord saved Lot when Sodom was destroyed

TINA: Are you sure the righteous never get punished with the unrighteous?

TIM: The Lord would never punish the righteous with the unrighteous! That's what Abraham asked the Lord -once- when the Lord was about to destroy Sodom.

TINA: What did Abraham ask?

TIM: Abraham was concerned about his nephew Lot -who was living in Sodom,- so pleaded with the Lord to save him, and said "Will you also destroy the righteous with the wicked? Far be it from you to do such a thing — to kill the righteous with the wicked, treating the righteous and the wicked alike. Far be it from you! Will not the Judge of all the earth do right?" (Genesis 18: 23 and 25).

TINA: Abraham had a lot of faith in the Lord's fairness and righteousness! What did the Lord answer?

TIM: The Lord saved Lot and took him out of Sodom before destroying the city and its surroundings.

TINA: But in Noah's case, didn't the Lord know that Noah's descendants wouldn't be good either?

TIM: I am sure He did, but....

TINA: ...didn't the Lord do anything to prevent Noah's descendants from becoming so evil again?

TIM: He did a few things to prevent mankind from becoming as evil as they have been before the flood... at least, to prevent that their evil would multiply so rapidly.

TINA: Like what...?

God limited Man's Ability to do Evil by shortening Man's Lifespan at the Time of the Flood

TIM: One of the things He did was that Noah's descendants lived much shorter than Noah and his ancestors... since then we don't have as much time to become as wicked as those who lived before the flood.

TINA: After Noah, people's lives were shorter than before the flood? How long did people live before the flood?

TIM: You can read it in the Bible. Before the flood many of them lived for several hundred years... and some lived close to a thousand years! (Genesis 5: 27 and 31).

TINA: That's a long time... hundreds of years! So God shortened our 'individual' lives, but still encouraged mankind to multiply and fill the earth.

TIM: Yes, He reduced the length of every person's life, but didn't diminish the amount of children individuals could have. In fact, after the flood, people started having children at a much younger age.

TINA: If God would have thought that there was something terribly wrong with sex, and having children, He could have most certainly done something to curtail both of those, having sex and having children, instead of encouraging them to have as much sex and children as possible.

TIM: Right!

TINA: And how did shortening people's lives stop evil from spreading and multiplying?

TIM: Well, it didn't stop it, but slowed down the spreading of evil. Look at children... usually the younger a person is, the less capacity to do evil that person has.

"Let little Children come unto Me"

TINA: You are right! Is that why Jesus said "Let little children to come unto me, and forbid them not: for of such is the kingdom of God"? (Luke 18: 16).

TIM: Yes... one of the reasons. So, by reducing people's lives to about only ten percent of what it used to be before the flood, the Lord was putting the brakes on the amount of evil a single individual could learn about and do... still giving everybody a chance to be born and to live, to make choices and to learn while on earth.

TINA: But, if some of the people were not as evil as the others, as proved by Noah and Abraham... by shortening all people's lives didn't God punish "the righteous with the wicked?" (Genesis 18: 23 and 25).

TIM: You truly have the mind of a lawyer, Tina! The truth is that for those who were not completely evil, and the ones that we could call the 'good' guys, there were two main advantages in having shorter lives, even today.

TINA: Before you tell me about the advantages, let me ask you this: could we call those 'good' people something else? Didn't Jesus say that no one is good?

The Meek

TIM: Right. Jesus said that when someone called Him: 'Good Master'. "And Jesus said unto him, Why do you call me good? None is good, except one ... God" (Luke 18: 19).

TINA: So, what could we call them, instead of 'good'?

TIM: Jesus sometimes called them 'the meek'. He said: "Blessed are the meek: for they shall inherit the earth" (Matthew 5: 5). He also called them the 'righteous' sometimes. So, let's call them the Meek or the Righteous for now.

TINA: So, what could the advantages be for the meek or the righteous to live a shorter life? Why it would be good for them that God shortened everybody's lives since Noah's days and onwards, including theirs? Shouldn't the righteous get to live longer lives, even hundreds of years long?

TIM: One is that having a shorter life means a shorter time to be in this world, which is often ridden by evil, by sickness, war, troubles, enemies, etc. It makes it more bearable for the meek people to live on earth for a shorter period of time... and then to go on to their eternal rewards.

TINA: ...and the second advantage?

TIM: As mentioned, because the evil people had less time on earth, they have less time and opportunity to do wanton harm, so it spares the meek people from much trouble also.

TINA: But wouldn't the peaceful people want to stay on earth longer and to live longer? I think most people would like to live longer.

TIM: Well, if they don't know or understand about Heaven -and eternal life after this life- they would maybe want to live on earth as long as possible, but once they cross to the other side, to the spirit world, they would be actually very thankful for the beauty, peace and freedom of their eternal lives over there.

TINA: But should people try to shorten their lives, if the next one is so much better?

TIM: We shouldn't try to shorten our lives, neither should we fear aging or dying... in other words, we should trust and accept God's timing for our lives, and not be afraid to live here or to go to the next station, when He knows is the right time to go.

TINA: We should trust Him with our life and with our death alike.

Humans' Lifespan was shortened for the first Time in the Garden of Eden

TIM: Exactly! Knowing that we are in His hands... whether we live here or there.

TINA: God had already reduced man's lifespan at the time of Adam and Eve, when He removed them from the Garden of Eden where the Tree of Life was, right?

TIM: Right! In the Garden, as we discussed before, Adam and Eve had the possibility of eating the Fruit of the Tree of Life and live forever... but they lost that chance.

TINA: So that was the 'biggest' reduction on man's lifespan, when we lost the chance of eternal life at the time of Adam and Eve.

TIM: Yea, that's what the Lord had warned them right at the beginning: "...you must not eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, for when you eat of it you will surely die" (New International Version, Genesis 2: 17).

Life is a Gift

TINA: What fools Adam and Eve had been! They could have freely eaten of the Tree of Life and lived forever, but they didn't.

TIM: Well... they probably couldn't understand then. Even today there are those who could receive eternal life freely by receiving Jesus, but don't, albeit Adam and Eve didn't have any way to know what death was. There was no such a thing then.

TINA: It's true. However, since then, life and death had been like rewards; death to the disobedient and eternal life to the obedient.

TIM: Not exactly, Tina... Death had been the result of sin and disobedience from the beginning... but eternal life in Heaven, like eating of the fruit of the Tree of Life, had always been a gift, not a reward. While the Tree of Life was in the Garden of Eden, they could have taken of its fruit freely, although they didn't. Today, people can get a hold of salvation and eternal life freely also, as it is gift from God, but many don't.

TINA: So, what's the difference between the ones that receive the gift of eternal life and that ones that don't, if it is not that some are disobedient and some are obedient?

While many Sinners receive Eternal Life, many of the 'Righteous' Religious People refuse it. Why?

TIM: If eternal life in Heaven were a reward to the obedient, the good and the perfect, none would go to Heaven. As mentioned, Jesus said that none is good, except God (Luke 18: 19). And if it were a reward to the religious people, why did Jesus tell the following to the Pharisees (who thought they were righteous and who were very religious), when they murmured because Jesus ate with sinners. He said, "They that are whole need not a physician; but they that are sick. I came not to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance" (Luke 5: 31 and 32).

TINA: I don't know whether those people were religious, but for sure they were sinners. We all are and none is good.

TIM: Regarding whether those people were religious or not, they also said to Jesus, "Why do the disciples of John (the Baptist) fast often, and make prayers, and likewise (we) the disciples of the Pharisees; but yours eat and drink?" (Luke 5: 33). The Pharisees were very religious, as they acknowledged and they fasted and prayed often and held other religious ceremonies and obligations.

TINA: But they didn't like Jesus and didn't come when He called. Apparently, they thought they were not sinners.

TIM: They didn't answer or come to Jesus, when He called them, but the sinners did, because the sinners knew they were not good, while the religious thought they were good. In fact, the religious thought they were better than Jesus and His disciples, who didn't pray or fast that much. Therefore, when Jesus called sinners to repentance, the sinners came to Jesus and received forgiveness of sins and eternal life by grace, as a gift from God.

TINA: But those who thought that they were good and righteous didn't see any point in coming to Jesus, the Messiah.

TIM: Unfortunately for them, they didn't come. However, those who come to Jesus receive salvation by grace and as a gift from God. Heaven is full of sinners that have been forgiven by God, because they believed in and received His Son, Jesus. Salvation and Heaven are not rewards for keeping religious regulations, but gifts from God's love. The saved people will be there only because they have accepted the gift of God... which Jesus, the Savior, paid for!

TINA: So, just as we received salvation as a gift; if in the Garden, Adam and Eve would have eaten of the Tree of Life freely, would they have lived forever, also as a freebie?

TIM: Yes. That's what the Lord told them at the beginning: "...the LORD God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden you may freely eat" (Genesis 2: 16).

TINA: But He told them not to eat from the tree of knowledge of good and evil. That tree was really like the tree of death, wasn't it?

TIM: Yea, we could say that the knowledge of evil brought death. However, just as Adam and Eve could have eaten of the Tree of Life freely, today all people still could freely receive eternal life and forgiveness of sins -by receiving Jesus-!

TINA: That's the Good News!

TIM: Today we can 'eat' of Him -receive Him- freely, and through Him receive eternal life... for He is eternal life! As Jesus said: "Whoever eats my flesh, and drinks my blood, has eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day" (John 6: 54). "For the bread of God is he which comes down from Heaven, and gives life unto the world... I am the bread of life: he that comes to me shall never hunger; and he that believes on me shall never thirst" (John 6: 33 and 35).

Some Ways in which we are like God

TINA: Earlier we discussed two ways in which we are at least partially made in God's image, one is that we are male and female, and the other that He made us to rule over the other creatures He formed.

TIM: Yes, and although without sex we could never accomplish God's plan, the most significant of the two is that He made us to rule! Because He made many other creatures to be male and female, but He only made humankind to rule over every other creature on earth. And as we saw, He repeated His promise to mankind several times, at completely different occasions with great intervals of time between them (Genesis 1: 26; 1: 28; 9: 2).

TINA: That means that the Lord had enough time to change His mind if He wanted to.

TIM: Right, but He didn't! He could have changed His mind at the time of Noah's flood, after seeing that the vast majority of the people had become extremely evil, to the point that He repented to have made humankind. However, even then He didn't change His mind and heart, but He continued to forgive and love us and to trust that we could be saved and salvaged.

TINA: Amazing grace and love! So, one of the most important ways in which we are like God is that we were appointed to be rulers? Anything else?

TIM: Another very important way we are like God is that He had given us a lot of free will and choice! In other words, we have more freedom than most other creatures to choose what we are and do, whether we choose to try to do good or to do evil. He made us to rule over the creatures of this world, and also gave us much freedom to rule over ourselves. He gave us a bigger degree of freedom to choose and to do things other creatures cannot do.

TINA: And He had respected our freedom to choose, even when we choose the bad or evil!

TIM: Yes. Adam and Eve's choice in the Garden of Eden to eat of the Tree of Knowledge of God and Evil instead of the Tree of Life is an example of how the Lord had respected that freedom of choice, and to what degree.

Putting the Pieces together

TINA: Is it because of that freedom of choice that He gave mankind more chances, to Adam and Eve after their disobedience, and then through Noah, after mankind had become so evil?

TIM: You are right and mostly because of His Love for us. He didn't give us only one chance to choose. Having only one chance to choose is not what we would call a wide freedom of choice. He didn't adopt a 'one strike and you are out' policy, but He gives us many chances to learn, many choices and He is always willing to forgive us if we repent of our wrongdoings.

TINA: I still don't understand why He does that, exactly.

TIM: God had given us many chances because of His love and trust and although at that time only Noah found grace in God's eyes, through Noah and his descendants, God gave many more chances to each one of us.

TINA: So far –since we started to discuss God's Spirit- we have covered a lot of ground regarding God's nature! The first scriptures we discussed showed that God is more than One but still One; then we saw that two of the Personalities of God are definitely male ones: the Father and the Son. The Bible differentiates between the two by calling them: LORD and Lord respectively! (See the previous ebook 'Jesus, Indeed' by Joseph Torie)

TIM: Yes.

TINA: And we saw that God was more than One even at the very beginning –at the time of Creation- according to the book of Genesis.

TIM: Right and that's why He said "'Let us' make man in 'our image'".

TINA: Then, we discussed that out of God's three personalities at least One must be female, because we were made in God's image, and He made us male and female!

God the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit present at Creation

TIM: Right! We know that the female personality of God was there at the time of creation because we were made male and female, in God's image. So we know that the Holy Spirit was there and we also know that Jesus was present when God was making the universe, because God used His word to make everything, and Jesus is the Word of God! As it says in the gospel of John, "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God... And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten [Son] of the Father,) full of grace and truth" (John 1: 1 and 14).

TINA: Yea. So, the three members of the Trinity were necessary for and were involved in creation.

TIM: Yes, and then we saw how God told Adam and Eve to be fruitful and to multiply. That was the first commandment given to the first man and woman –by that time living in the most beautiful garden that ever existed and whom "...were both naked, the man and his wife, and were not ashamed" (Genesis 2: 25).

There is nothing wrong with Sex the wonderful Way God intended it

TINA: God told them to be fruitful and to multiply -obviously telling them to have sex- and fill the earth with their children and that was good.

TIM: Right, the first commandment, first in order of appearance. Obviously, God- who created sex- doesn't blush when talking about it... neither thinks that there is anything wrong with sex, the wonderful way He intended it.

TINA: Those scriptures show that the negative attitude that some people have about sex, it is not the way God feels about it, according to the scriptures, as we are told that "God saw everything that he had made, and, behold, it was very good..." after God have created mankind, and sex (Genesis 1: 31).

TIM: "It was very good". Sex was not the 'original sin' as many insist, but the 'original blessing' and the first commandment, as the Bible shows clearly and repeatedly. The perception that Adam and Eve had that being naked was wrong appeared right after they have disobeyed the Lord and believed the lies of Satan. Before that "... they were both naked, the man and his wife, and were not ashamed" Genesis 2: 25).

TINA: So, what happened after that?

TIM: After having eaten of the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil, they believed and knew Evil; they believed the lies of the Devil, while before they only knew and believed good and the truth. One of the first lies they believed was that sex was wrong and that to be naked was wrong, which before that they haven't even thought about it. After they believed the lies of the Devil, "... the eyes of them both were opened (to Evil), and they knew that they were naked; and they sewed fig leaves together, and made themselves aprons" (Genesis 3: 7). Then later when they heard the Lord's voice in the garden they hid themselves because they were naked, while before they hadn't minded being naked at all.

TINA: Up to that point they have been naked and didn't think that it was wrong, but after eating of the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil, they thought differently as their minds have changed.

After eating of the Fruit of the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil Adam and Eve's Minds and Spirits changed and they believed Lies instead of the Truth

TIM: Yes. Immediately after that, the Lord asked them why have they hidden from Him and Adam replied, "I heard your voice in the garden, and I was afraid, because I was naked; and I hid myself. And he (the Lord) said, Who told you that you were naked (that it was wrong to be naked)? Have you eaten of the tree (of knowledge and belief of Evil), whereof I commanded you that you shouldn't eat?" (Genesis 3: 10 and 11).

TINA: The first thing that changed was that from then on they believed that sex and being naked was evil.

TIM: Yes. In addition, from that point on, for everything that happened they were exposed to Good, the word of the Lord, and to Evil, the lies of the Devil and it was up to them to believe either one, according to their choices. From that point on, mankind had suffered from believing the lies of the Devil and the distorted and evil perception had resulted in all kinds of sexual deviations and abuses. In addition to believing lies about sex, humankind had believed all the other lies of the Devil which had resulted in all kinds of evil and atrocities committed by humankind. The first murder took place not long after that, when one of Adam and Eve's sons killed another one of their sons. That was the first homicide, committed out of jealousy.

TINA: And those things are quite clear in the Bible, right from the beginning, right?

TIM: Right!

The first Attack of the Devil was on Sex and having Children, but his aim was to destroy Humankind

TINA: And why would have been the first lie the Devil told Adam and Eve about sex and about being naked, that it was evil?

TIM: The Lord's first commandment to them had been to have sex, to be fruitful, to multiply and fill the earth with their children. Therefore, the first lie of the Devil was aimed squarely to stop them from doing what the Lord had told them to do. The first lie they believed after eating of that fruit was that there was something wrong with being naked and therefore with sex. From then on, the Devil not only tried to stop children from being born, but he promoted people killing one another, for gain, because of lust, jealousy, hate and many other evil reasons. Humankind have been involved in killing one another since then, while dreaming of and developing more efficient ways of doing it, which is often called either 'progress' or the survival of the fittest. ●

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Chapter 2 — God Is Right There... Wherever You Are

> "... The most High doesn't dwell in temples made with hands" (Acts 7: 48) (Isaiah 66: 1 to 3)

Spirit

TINA: We discussed a lot about God's three personalities, and about the Father, the Son and the Spirit. We also discussed some things that could be considered quite controversial, right from the first page of the Bible, about God's nature.

TIM: Yea! We could perhaps talk more about this later... but of course first of all; we must remember that "God is a Spirit". God is not material but spiritual (John 4: 24).

TINA: God is a Spirit and He is everywhere, right? So He is not just like an old man seating somewhere far away in a throne, neither is He confined to a 'holy' building, or in some far away mountain. He is everywhere.

TIM: Right! Jesus explained this to a woman who asked Him where she should go to worship God, to the Jewish temple in Jerusalem or to the top of mount Gerizim, in Samaria.

Jews and Samaritans

TINA: Why would the woman have worshiped God on a mount in Samaria, and not in the temple in Jerusalem?

TIM: Because she was a Samaritan and Samaritans had built themselves another place of worship in Mount Gerizim just not to have to go to Jerusalem to worship, as the Jews and Samaritans disliked each other.

TINA: I heard that Jews didn't even talk to Samaritans. Jews considered Samaritans to have a false religion vaguely based on the Jewish one.

TIM: The Samaritans' religion was loosely based only on the first five books of the Bible -the Pentateuch- and they were not originally descendants of Abraham. In addition, they worship some statutes of animals or calves in their mountain, so the Jews looked down on them. Jesus told the woman, "You (the Samaritans) worship you know not what..." (John 4: 22).

TINA: And why did Jesus talk with that woman?

TIM: Jesus asked her for water, but obviously He mostly wanted to talk with her. That woman was quite a character. We find from John 4, that she has had five husbands and by the time she met Jesus, she was living with a man, to whom she wasn't married.

TINA: Jesus talked not only to the common people but even to the downcasts and people toward whom most religious people would be prejudiced.

TIM: Yes, He did.

Where to worship God?

TINA: Eventually, the woman asked Him where to worship God! Of course, many people would want to know that: which temple, mountain, or church should they go to worship God. Should they go to the Roman Catholic Church, or the Protestant Church? Go to this church or to that one? Because often people claim that only their temple or religion is the right one and the only right place to go.

TIM: And Jesus answered her question.

TINA: But, if God is everywhere, would any church be OK? Or if there is only one place to worship God, how could every person in the whole world go there? Even if people could do that, they would they be in God's presence only in certain occasions, or only once a in a great while. At best, if people would live close to that temple or mountain, maybe they could be there once a week or every few days.

God is right there... wherever You are

TIM: Jesus' answered all those questions with His answer. He told the woman that we didn't need to go to any temple, mountain or church anymore to love God, because God is a Spirit, and –of course, as you said- He is everywhere!

TINA: So? Where to go then?

TIM: He said we need to worship -or love- Him in spirit and in truth, meaning that all we need to do is to truly love Him in our hearts: anytime, anywhere and everywhere, no matter where we are. He is there already anyway.

TINA: What did He say exactly?

TIM: He said: "God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth" (John 4: 24).

TINA: Does that mean God doesn't mind where we are as long as we love Him? And that what He cares about is whether we truly love Him in our hearts?

"Before they call, I will answer"

TIM: Exactly right! He is already there no matter where we are, so there is no need for us to go somewhere else to talk with Him. He looks to our hearts. The temple of God is the heart of a person who loves Him and desires Him.

TINA: Cool. He sees us all the time and everything we do.

TIM: This is something the Lord told the prophet Ezekiel. The Lord said that some of the people of Israel thought that if they went inside a chamber or room to worship idols, that the Lord wouldn't be able to see them. Those people said "the LORD doesn't see us" (Ezekiel 8: 12).

TINA: But the Lord sees everything and everybody, no matter to which room we go. The Lord sees even what's inside our hearts.

TIM: Right! If we speak to Him in our hearts, He promised to hear and to answer. He said, "Call unto me, and I will answer you, and show you great and mighty things, which you don't know." (Jeremiah 33: 3)... and "...it shall come to pass, that before they call, I will answer; and while they are yet speaking, I will hear" (Isaiah 65: 24).

TINA: Those are wonderful promises! And the Lord expects all this to happen inside our hearts and not in any building made by human hands. We don't need any temple to talk to the Lord.

TIM: Yes. In fact, the Bible actually says that we could be God's temple. It is not our bodies that are the temple, but the spirits of those that love Him and receive. In other words, the body houses the person's spirit and the spirit of the person who loves and desires the Lord, becomes His house or temple.

God's Temple

TINA: Where does it say that?

TIM: St. Paul wrote to the Christians of Corinth, "What? Don't you know that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which you have (received) of God...?" (1 Corinthians 3: 16 and 6: 19).

TINA: So, God is a spirit... and if we receive His Spirit, then our bodies become His temple!!

TIM: Yes. The spirit, which is in the body become His temple. As it also says in the Book of Acts –but quoting the Old Testament-, "... the most High doesn't dwell in temples made with hands... 'Heaven is my throne, and earth is my footstool: what house will you build me? said the Lord: or what is the place of my rest? Have not my hand made all these things?'" (Acts 7: 48 to 50). Here by the way, Steven was quoting the prophet Isaiah (Isaiah 66: 1 to 3). Isaiah said that God didn't need a temple made by men and also that religious offerings and ceremonies offered by people who didn't honor Him in their hearts were abominable to God!

The Fate of a Prophet

TINA: Did Isaiah say that? How did he get away with it? Wasn't he persecuted for saying that God doesn't need a temple made by human hands and that the religious ceremonies were an abomination to God? Is what he said written in the Bible?

TIM: He said that and is recorded in the last chapter of his book, so perhaps he didn't live much longer after that.

TINA: How did Isaiah die?

TIM: According to tradition, Isaiah was tied to a tree and sawed in parts, by order of King Manasseh.

TINA: The same King Manasseh we talked about? The one that was so bad, but after he was taken into captivity, he repented greatly and then the Lord forgave him?

TIM: Yes, and as I think we said, he was one of the last kings of Judah, at the time just before the nation was taken captive to Babylon.

TINA: And does the Bible mention that Manasseh ordered Isaiah to be killed?

TIM: No, but the Book of Hebrews (Hebrews 11: 37) mentions those who were 'sawed asunder' (cut in pieces) for their faith, apparently in reference to his death.

Religion without Love is an Abomination to God

TINA: Where is written what Isaiah prophesied about the religious ceremonies?

TIM: He wrote: "...whoever sacrifices a bull (to God) is like one who kills a man (like a murderer); and whoever offers a lamb, like one who breaks a dog's neck (as one that offers an abomination). Whoever makes a grain offering (in the temple) is like one who presents pig's blood (also an abomination to the Jews); and whoever burns memorial incense, like one who worships an idol. Yea, they have chosen their own ways, and their soul delights in their abominations" (Isaiah 66: 3).

TINA: But weren't those sacrifices required by the Law of Moses in the first place?

TIM: Some were and some were their own ideas, but because the people's hearts weren't right -but were evil- although they pretended to worship God and offered sacrifices, the Lord considered their offerings, temple, and sacrifices as abominations.

TINA: They couldn't fool the Lord with their pretended religiosity, as the Lord sees the hearts.

TIM: Yea, as Jesus quoted Isaiah also: "Well had Esaias (Isaiah) prophesied of you (religious) hypocrites, as it is written, 'This people honor me with their lips, but their heart is far from me. However, in vain do they worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men" (Mark 7: 6 and 7).

TINA: Their ceremonies and their religion were all In vain, because their hearts weren't right.

Jesus' Disciples didn't have any Church Building

TIM: Yes... a religion without love for God and for others is an abomination to God... and if we love God and others, we don't need any church building or religion, just like Jesus and His disciples didn't need any church building, neither any religion.

TINA: Was that why God allowed the Babylonian people to destroy the temple in Jerusalem?

TIM: Yea. He also allowed the Babylonians to destroy the walls of Jerusalem and to take the Jewish people captive to Babylon for seventy years.

TINA: God allowed all that?

TIM: Yea, as many of the prophets such as Isaiah, Jeremiah, Ezekiel and even Daniel prophesied and testified of.

TINA: So, Isaiah was the prophet that said that the God of the whole universe doesn't live in some building made of stone or wood, built by human hands. He also said that He doesn't want people to offer Him sacrifices. Did Isaiah say also that God looks at the heart?

"...To this Man will I look... him that is... of a contrite Spirit..."

TIM: Right after saying that God doesn't dwell in temples made by human hand, Isaiah added: "...the Lord says: ...to this man will I look, even to him that is poor and of a contrite spirit, and trembles at my word" (Isaiah 66: 2).

TINA: Does 'contrite' mean humble?

TIM: In this case, it means to be sorry for having done wrong, or for having offended God, so again it shows that God looks at the heart. David also wrote that in the Psalms, at a time when He was exposed by the prophet Nathan for having killed one of his own officers. Did we talk about this before?

TINA: No, I don't think so.

TIM: King David killed one of the officers in his own army to steal that officer's wife.

"You are the Man!"

TINA: What happened exactly?

TIM: David first hided that he had made love to that married woman -while her husband was away fighting in a war-. The woman, however, got pregnant with David's baby. As David couldn't hide this fact, he arranged for the man to be killed, and then he later married the woman. But the Lord sent Nathan -the prophet- to expose David. Finally, after David was exposed by the prophet's words, David repented and confessed.

TINA: Nathan was a prophet... and he rebuked David the King?...Nathan was brave!

TIM: Yes, he was, but he first told David a story about a rich man who had many sheep, but who had stolen someone else's only sheep. Then Nathan asked David to give his judgment about what should be done to the man.

TINA: What was David's judgment?

TIM: David answered that the man in the story should die for the evil deed that he had done. Then, Nathan told David "You are the man!" (2 Samuel 12: 7). When David was finally exposed by the prophet, he finally confessed!

TINA: Good for him to confess!

God doesn't delight in Sacrifices, but wants our Hearts

TIM:...then David wrote –talking to the Lord-, "You do not delight in sacrifice, or I would bring it; you do not take pleasure in burnt offerings. The sacrifices of God are a broken spirit; a broken and contrite heart, O God, you will not despise" (Psalms 51: 16 and 17).

TINA: So, David also acknowledged that God doesn't want sacrifices but that what He wants is that we confess to Him our wrongs and that we love Him in our hearts.

TIM: Yes. He wants to live in our hearts: the living temple He made for Himself! He wants truth in our hearts! He wants His temple -in our hearts- to be clean, and not to be a den of thieves!

TINA: God wants our hearts to be His temple!

TIM: Right! And that's also what Jesus said! God wants those that worship Him, to worship Him in spirit and in truth (John 4: 24).

TINA: What about the many churches Christians have built? Don't people call those buildings 'God's House', or 'God's Temple'?

TIM: They could call those buildings whatever they want. We just quoted Jesus saying that God wants people to worship Him in Spirit and in Truth. Nothing to do with buildings, no matter how much money they spend to build them, neither what they call them.

The Believers are the Church

TINA: So, do people need to go to a church?

TIM: People can go to, or get together for their meetings anywhere they want to. They can have whatever places or meeting they choose to have. Obviously, when there are large groups of believers who also want to get together and pray together or whatever they do in those meetings, they need a place to do that. However, the place to get together with the Lord is their hearts and in truth... God doesn't dwell in temples, houses or meeting halls made with human hands, as we quoted the prophet... The Lord only accepts our hearts for His temple! That's His meeting place! If we don't meet Him in spirit and in truth, in our hearts, going to a building doesn't count.

TINA: But doesn't the Bible speak about the church? Aren't Christian people supposed to go to some church to meet God?

TIM: In the Bible, when it refers to the 'church', the original word is neither talking about a building at all, nor a place.

TINA: Then, what does the Bible say about the 'church'?

TIM: In the original Greek New Testament, when it refers to the 'church' it uses the Greek word ekklesia, which in English is spelled as ecclesia.

The Ecclesia

TINA: What does 'ecclesia' mean?

TIM: In ancient Greece, it was 'a political gathering of citizens', but then the Early Christians borrowed the word to refer to the totality of the Christian believers or also to the members of an individual Christian group.

TINA: So, originally the term didn't mean a building but a gathering of people for political reasons and then later the Christians in Greece borrowed and applied the term to the gathering of believers.

TIM: Right. That's what the New Testament meaning is, such as in the Book of Acts when it says "... for a whole year Barnabas and Saul (Paul) met with the church and taught great numbers of people. The disciples were called Christians first at Antioch" (New International Version, Acts 11: 26).

TINA: So, there the word 'church' means the people who believed and not a building or a place, as it says that they "met with the church" and not that they met in the church.

TIM: Right! ...and in other places means the people also, such as in "...if the whole church comes together..." (1 Corinthians 14: 23). It is not taking about a building coming together but a group of believers. And when Paul says "...I persecuted the church of God." (1 Corinthians 15: 9), he didn't mean that he was persecuting a building but the believers. Or when it says "On arriving there, they gathered the church together and reported all that God had done through them and how he had opened the door of faith to the Gentiles" (Acts 14: 27). That also means that they gathered the believers together, and not stones for a building.

Temples made by People come and go

TINA: So, the church is the people who believe and not the building where people get together!

TIM: Right. The Church is neither the places people gather to worship, nor a Christian group's hierarchy, but the church is the body of believers. It's just like a family is not the place people live with their close relatives, but the members of that family.

TINA: Neither the hierarchy, nor the buildings.

TIM: Temples made with hands come and go. If God didn't protect either of the two magnificent temples built in Jerusalem, I don't think He will protect any other buildings men build!

TINA: No matter how 'holy' people might think their church building is, in the end they may fall also?

TIM: In the end, what Jesus said about the second Jewish temple –the one built by Herod the Great- (Matthew 24: 1 and 2) could be applied to all other buildings, temples and 'churches' made by human hands. Someday, they all will fall and there won't be one stone left upon another.

TINA: Is that a sort of personal prophecy?

TIM: No, but it is according to the Bible. Paul said: "While we look not at the things which are seen, but at the things which are not seen: for the things which are seen are temporal (as temples); but the things which are not seen are eternal" (2 Corinthians 4: 18).

TINA: Don't you think that many religious people would object to your comment, even many Christians?

TIM: I think many would, but I also think it is time -especially for Christians- to wake up to the realities of the spirit world, what Paul called "the things which are not seen" and stop investing and wasting resources and time "in the things which are seen", which are temporal.

TINA: Probably many would object to your comments. People killed the prophet Isaiah for speaking against their religious building and ceremonies and the religious leaders of Jesus' day got Him killed for speaking against their religion and religious leaders.

Believers are the Living Stones of God's spiritual House

TIM: They should build –as Paul added- "...a building of God, a house not made with hands, (but) eternal in the heavens" (2 Corinthians 5: 1).

TINA: By "a building of God, a house not made with hands" he meant the believers, the true Church?

TIM: Yea. Paul meant a building made of people, instead of a piece of real estate. Peter wrote –talking about Jesus- saying that He is: "...the living Stone — rejected by men but chosen by God and precious to Him" then he added about the believers, the church: "you also, like living stones, are being built into a spiritual house..." (New International Version, 1 Peter 2: 4 and 5).

TINA: There is a lot of food for thought in those scriptures, but of course, many of the people who assume the buildings to be the 'church' may strongly object to your ideas and call them a heresy!

TIM: Yes, perhaps they will, but these are not my own ideas but the Bible's. If they have objections they should talk to Jesus about it. ●

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Chapter 3 — XX & XY

Wouldn't there be something missing?

TINA: Going back to the Holy Spirit: we clarified from scripture that there is nothing wrong or evil with the way God created humans or sex, as it says in Genesis that God saw that everything He had created was very good, and that included sex! (Genesis 1: 31). And we discussed that God has Three persons in One, the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit?

TIM: Right!

TINA: We also said that one of the persons is obviously female -like a Heavenly Mother- because God had created us in His image, and He created us "male and female". The logical conclusion is that in addition to the Father and the Son, there should also be a mother? Otherwise, wouldn't there be something missing?

God the Father and the Son are definitely Male Personalities

TIM: Yes. God the Father and God the Son –Jesus- are definitely male personalities! But the Holy Spirit has some characteristics that are definitely more feminine, female-like!

TINA: I am completely satisfied with those answers and in fact to me they are the most logical, divine, humane and acceptable of all the explanations I have heard about.

TIM: I am glad you think so... those are -of course- the things the Bible says and not my own opinions or ideas.

TINA: But because of the implications these ideas might have for many people, I would like if we could discuss these ideas a little more, expand on them a little more, and travel this path a little more.

TIM: That's fine with me.

TINA: So, could we simply say that the Holy Spirit is more like a Mother, while God is more like a Father?

TIM: Sometimes the Holy Spirit is represented like a gentle dove or pigeon -which shows how loving and harmless the Spirit is and sometimes the Spirit is symbolized like Fire.

TINA: So, the Spirit is symbolized in different ways in the Bible?

TIM: Yes! But many of the characteristics of the Holy Spirit –as described in the Bible- are those of a loving Heavenly Mother... although –as we discussed previously- some wouldn't accept that.

Is God a Trinity of Bachelors?

TINA: Why? Wouldn't that be understandable, to have a Father, a Son, and a Mother? Is there anything wrong with having a mother, or a family? Wouldn't that be more understandable and according to the scriptures than to insist that God is a trinity of bachelors?

TIM: Yes. Nothing wrong with it, we all have mothers, but still... as I mentioned before, having a Heavenly Father and a Heavenly Mother, may imply that there is some sort of sexual relationship in which God is involved and this would be considered heretical by a great number of religious people.

TINA: Where in the Bible is the Spirit described as a mother, or as female?

TIM: The Old Testament –sometimes- when it refers to the Spirit uses the feminine form, like when it describes the Spirit in the Book of Proverbs.

TINA: In the Old Testament, really?

TIM: For many years, Bible authorities have agreed that in the Book of Proverbs in chapters 3 & 8 when it says 'wisdom' is really talking about the Spirit of God.

TINA: So, it is not talking about an attribute of God the Father, or about wisdom as an independent virtue or thing, but about the Holy Spirit?

TIM: Yes. This is what many Bible authorities agree on. It mentions the Spirit being with God when He made the world and it is definitely a feminine personality.

TINA: But in the New Testament –and many could contend that- when it refers to the Holy Spirit, it calls it 'He'.

TIM: Yes, both the Old and New Testaments -and their translations- mostly call the Spirit 'He'... but we need to keep in mind that the Jewish society of those days -as well as the societies where the first Christians were operating- were completely 'male oriented'.

Male Chauvinism?

TINA: Hmm... and many still are... and you say that could be another reason why many people wouldn't accept the idea of a motherly Spirit? Not only the sex issue but also that many feel that men are superior to women? And therefore insist that God is only male?

TIM: It could... in some ways, even many of the early Christians still believed that men were superior to women in spiritual matters, because of the influence of their cultures, which were quite male chauvinistic... although Christianity itself brought a lot of freedom and respect to women.

TINA: Did ancient cultures considered men spiritually superior to women?

TIM: Yes, for the most part and not only spiritually but in every other way... the social status of women was quite low before the arrival of Christianity.

TINA: So, did Christianity help to bring more respect for women or not?

TIM: Yes, but even today, there are religious Christian people who think that women don't have the same 'spiritual rights' or 'status' as men.

TINA: Even among Christians? But is that what Jesus taught?

"There is no Male, nor Female in Jesus"

TIM: The New Testament makes it clear that "in Christ Jesus there is no male, nor female" (Galatians 3: 28) and that God doesn't make any difference according to people's gender or sex, but instead that He looks at the heart.

TINA: Could it be that some people interprets the "no male nor female" principle, as if in the spirit world there is no gender but 'in Jesus' everybody is sort of a unisex type of thing? Asexual? No gender?

TIM: It could be that some interpret it that way; however, it doesn't make any sense in the context of the Bible.

TINA: Why?

Is Heaven asexual? Straight Talk! The true Sayings of God!

TIM: The Bible shows clearly that there are genders in the spirit world, such as God the Father and Jesus the Son, starting right at the top. They are both males. They are not asexual, at all.

TINA: It wouldn't make any sense to have God the Father and the Jesus the Son being the only males in the whole of Heaven and of the spiritual world and then everybody else being asexual.

TIM: Then, Jesus is not only called the Son but is also referred to as the Bridegroom and the Church is called the Bride.

TINA: Are these just nominal things -in name only- or actual descriptions?

TIM: Why would Scripture call Jesus the Son if He is not the Son, or call Him the Bridegroom, if He would never get married? According to the Book of Revelation one of the first things to take place in Heaven once all the saved are finally there, is the Marriage Feast of the Lamb.

TINA: What happens at that marriage feast? And the Lamb is Jesus, right?

TIM: That's when He finally holds a wedding party for His girlfriend and lover, the Church, and we become His official Bride, up in Heaven.

TINA: It sounds like there are genders in Heaven! And a Marriage Feast! Where does it talk about it exactly?

TIM: In Revelation chapter 19. Let's take a quick look at it, shall we?

TINA: Yes, of course!

TIM: It says: "Let us be glad and rejoice, and give honor to him (to the Lord): for the marriage of the Lamb is come, and his wife (Jesus' wife: the Church) has made herself ready... And he said unto me, Write, Blessed are they which are called unto the marriage supper of the Lamb. And he said unto me, These are the true sayings of God" (Revelation 19: 7 and 9).

TINA: When it says "These are the true sayings of God" does it mean that this is true and not just some figurative talking?

TIM: Right. This is not just some sort of allegory but straight talking: "...the true sayings of God"!

Spiritually, neither Males nor Females are inferior to the other

TINA: So, the Church is called the Bride? But it is not just a representation, but "the true sayings of God"!

TIM: Yes. In fact, in one of the parables Jesus taught about the Kingdom of Heaven and about His return, He marries five virgins all at once, in one occasion. Originally, there were ten virgins, but five of them can't make it to the wedding because they are not prepared for Him when He returns (Matthew 25:1 to 13).

TINA: Ten virgins and five of them marry Him in one ceremony? No offense, but I wouldn't say that Heaven's is an asexual society at all!

TIM: Obviously, it refers to them as virgins spiritually, meaning that they love and belong only to Jesus and not to anyone else. But once they marry Jesus, they become the Bride of Jesus, or as the Book of Revelation call them, the Bride of the Lamb.

TINA: So, when the New Testament says that there is 'no male nor female in Jesus', it doesn't mean that in Heaven there are no genders, but rather that Jesus doesn't look at one as inferior to the other, or to one as more important than the other.

TIM: Correct!

TINA: However, still many Christians make that difference and many assume that men are spirituality superior to women, isn't it?

TIM: Yes, even Paul in some of his writings defended the idea. But in the Lord's eyes -and especially in the New Testament's main view- when it comes to spiritual matters there is no difference whether someone is male or female. God doesn't look at one above the other and a man wouldn't be considered by Him more spiritual than a woman, nor a woman more spiritual than a man, just because of their gender. Spirituality is not a thing of the flesh, but of the spirit.

The Lord looks at the Heart

TINA: Is this only in the New Testament?

TIM: Mostly yes, but even in the Old Testament it was often implied.

TINA: Could you give an example from the Old Testament?

TIM: Yes. "... the LORD said unto Samuel (the Prophet)...the LORD sees not as man sees; for man looks on the outward appearance, but the LORD looks on the heart" (1 Samuel 16: 7).

TINA: So God looks at the heart and not at the outward physical appearance. To Him it doesn't matter the outward appearance as much as the heart... even in the Old Testament.

TIM: Yes. But especially in the New Testament God doesn't make any distinction between the two sexes as "God is no respecter of persons" (Acts 10: 34).

TINA: Why does it say that God doesn't respect persons? What does it mean exactly?

TIM: It means that God does not show favoritism, and He doesn't look at people's gender, nationality, social position, wealth, education, intelligence, past history, age, etc. but to the heart.

God pours His Spirit on Men and Women

TINA: And could you give an example of God not making any difference between male and female in the New Testament?

TIM: When Jesus' first disciples received the anointing of the Holy Ghost, Peter –full of the Spirit- quoted a prophecy received by the prophet Joel (Joel 2: 28), from the Old Testament. It says, "...it shall come to pass in the last days, says God, I will pour my spirit upon all flesh, and your sons and your daughters shall prophecy... and on my servants and on my handmaidens I will pour out in those days of my spirit and they shall prophecy" (Acts 2: 16 to 18).

TINA: So God said that He was going to give His Spirit to both, sons and daughters, and male and female servants and that both would prophecy!

TIM: Yes. So when it comes to the gifts of the spirit -spiritual gifts- God promised that since the time Jesus came, there would not be a difference between male and female. Both can receive the Spirit of God and both can prophesy and both can have the different gifts and authority of the Spirit.

TINA: And that prophecy is found first in the Old Testament and then quoted by Peter in the New Testament?

TIM: Yes. When Peter was speaking and was filled by the Holy Ghost! That was right after they have been filled with the Holy Spirit.

In Jesus' Eyes Men and Women are not spiritually different

TINA: It seems this subject of male and female has different dimensions, which could be why there is a difference of opinions about whether they are the same or they aren't.

TIM: What do you mean?

TINA: Although the Bible says that God doesn't make differences spiritually between women and men, they are physically different.

TIM: Right, they are physically, emotionally and socially different and the Lord recognizes those differences. The Bible doesn't deny the differences, but in the spiritual dimension, for people who have God's spirit, there is no difference. In other words, God's spirit can operate equally in a female or in a male, and neither is superior to the other just based on gender.

TINA: But that doesn't mean that one –whether male or female- couldn't be more used of the Spirit than the other?

TIM: It just means that God can use spiritually either one -a male or a female- in the body of believers, the Church. He can use a male or a female whether it is in a capacity as a prophet, an apostle, an evangelist, a leader or in any other capacity in the Church (1 Corinthians 12). The key on whether one is more used than the other resides on their spirits and not in their bodies. The one who is spiritually closer to the Lord, whether male or female would often be a better channel for the Spirit. However, even in such cases, in which one person is spiritually closer to the Lord, it doesn't mean that the same is always right, infallible or without fault.

TINA: But physically there remain differences, as in many cases females prefer for a male to lead or to be the one leading the way.

TIM: Or in other cases, it seems to be the other way around. Our point here is not about physical differences, nor even social, but spiritual ones. The Lord doesn't make any difference between a female and a male in spiritual matters and He had given and wants to give His Spirit to both. It's possible that women were anointed spiritually to be the leader of the Lord's people -or of one the Lord's teams- as there are a number of cases even in the Old Testament.

TINA: But what about what Paul wrote saying that "...the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God." (1 Corinthians 11: 3)? Wouldn't the "there is no male nor female (spiritually) in Christ Jesus" contradict this?

TIM: This seems to be one of the fears or objections some Christians have to the "there is no male nor female" view, that if there is no difference between male and female then the Church would be equal to the Lord and there wouldn't be a difference anymore.

The two become One

TINA: In other words, that Jesus wouldn't be the head anymore.

TIM: Yes, but I think Jesus answered that satisfactorily when he said that "But from the beginning of the creation God made them male and female. For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother, and cleave to his wife; And they two shall be one flesh: so then they are no more two, but one flesh" (Mark 10: 6 to 8).

TINA: Wow! What a scripture... and Jesus was quoting the Old Testament there?

TIM: He was quoting Genesis (Genesis 2:24), that is at the time when God made Eve out of Adam.

TINA: And when Jesus joins His Bride –The Church- the two also become One, and they are no more two.

TIM: Yep, and the fear some have that one would be greater than the other -which apparently Paul also had- disappears, because One cannot be greater or smaller than Itself. One can only be equal to itself. ●

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Chapter 4 — Does The Bible Contradict Itself?

Why Paul didn't allow Women to prophesy?

TINA: We said that God doesn't consider males nor females superior one to the other, as Paul wrote in one occasion, "There is no male no female in Jesus Christ" (Galatians 3: 28).

TIM: Yes.

TINA: But I heard someone say that Paul wrote that he didn't allow women to speak in the church meetings, or to prophesy... is this true? And if so, isn't there a contradiction there?

TIM: Ha! You really can ask difficult questions!... But if you want to know about it, I will tell you!

TINA: Please do! Could this be the reason why still some churches today deny women some of the rights they grant to men?

TIM: Paul did write that... but it is not what the Lord taught, as I mentioned before -and as we already discussed- it is not even what Paul himself taught most of the time! As we pointed out, It was Paul who –in the first place- taught that in Jesus there is 'no male no female'.

TINA: So, why did Paul write that he didn't allow women to speak in the church? What he wrote is not based on spiritual considerations but in gender considerations. Didn't that contradict what He had said previously and also what the prophecy of Joel said and Peter's message said?

TIM: Yea, it contradicted all those...

Does the Bible contradict Itself?

TINA: So, does the Bible contradict itself?

TIM: Maybe Paul wrote that to the Corinthians because they were having trouble with some women in their group -trouble with division or false doctrines, false prophecies, or something- so that he had to forbid them to prophecy or to pray in public in that church.

TINA: Where did he write that?

TIM: In 1 Corinthians chapter 14... let me see... verse 34, and it says, "Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak..."

TINA: So, it could be that Paul wrote that only to the women of Corinth? And that he didn't mean that for all Christian women of all time and everywhere?

TIM: Yes, it could be that he was talking only to that church of the Corinthians, meaning by "your women" -the women of Corinth.

TINA: Oh, I see.

TIM: Or maybe he meant that for all the churches he was an elder of... but...

TINA: But what...?

Did Paul contradict himself?

TIM: But if he meant all Christian women of all times his statement contradicts his own teachings and what is more important, the teaching of Jesus and the spirit of the New Testament.

TINA: And do you think Paul meant that?

TIM: I am not sure, but he did add, "...it is a shame for women to speak in the church." That seems to indicate that he was speaking about all women and any women (1 Corinthians 14: 35). However, dear Paul failed to explain to us what is that it is so shameful about a woman asking questions or saying what she thinks in a Christian get-together. I don't see any shame in that, nor see I anything strange thing in asking questions to her husband or to someone else!

TINA: Which of Paul's own teachings contradicts what he wrote in 1 Corinthians 14?

No Difference based on our outward Appearance

TIM: I just mentioned –for example- Galatians 3: 28 where he wrote that "There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for you are all one in Christ Jesus." He meant that Jesus makes no difference between male and female, or any other outward difference. Jesus looks at the heart! He added that believers are all one in Jesus.

TINA: So, God doesn't make difference between male and female, or between one kind of people and another, based on their gender or social condition and so on?

TIM: Right! As we said before, God doesn't make any difference spiritually between a male and a female, although Paul sometimes did. God doesn't look at people's outward appearance, but to the heart: that's what God looks at!

TINA: And God wouldn't make a difference between a Caucasian person and an Asian person either, nor between an African person and a Native American?

TIM: He doesn't. God doesn't look at people in a negative or prejudiced way based on the way they look outwardly! God made them to look that way -to begin with- and there is nothing He considers inferior if someone is a woman, a 'foreigner', or a child. God looks at the heart! God is a Spirit and He looks at our spirits, at our hearts. Our flesh is made of dust -here today and gone tomorrow- so He doesn't go by the way we look, by our gender, by our social position or reputation. He looks at our hearts!

TINA: Are there some favored races or people in God's eyes?

TIM: The Lord doesn't look at our so called 'race' based in some supposed difference in blood. There is only one human race. As Paul testified to the Greek people of Athens, "... (God) has made of one blood all nations of men for to dwell on all the face of the earth..." (Acts 17: 26).

TINA: So then, did Paul contradict his own teaching when he wrote to the Corinthians and said that he didn't allow women to speak in the church?

By not allowing Women to exercise their Rights and Freedom in the Spirit, Paul abandoned Truth and Grace to revert to the Law

TIM: Yes, especially if he meant ALL Christian women of all time. If so, he was contradicting his teachings... and going back to the legalism of the Old Testament Law. In fact, he said that in his own words, "...they (women) are commanded to be under obedience as also says the law (of Moses)" (1Corinthians 14: 34).

TINA: So Paul was saying that women couldn't talk, as Moses' Law says. However, the Corinthian people were not –and have never been- under the Laws of Moses, right? The Corinthian people were Greek people!

TIM: Right! But apparently Paul was still sometimes under the influence of Old Testament Law. Sometimes he was a legalist. But in God's eyes it doesn't matter where we are from. If we have the Holy Spirit and are guided by the Holy Spirit, we are not under the Law of Moses. Paul should have known that! The Law was given to the children of Israel under special circumstances.

TINA: What special circumstances?

TIM: Briefly put, they have been promised many blessings because of their ancestors' faith, Abraham and Jacob. However, by the time the Lord gave them the Law through Moses most of the children of Israel had lost that faith and in a way didn't deserve the promised blessings. The Law was mostly the conditions they would have to keep, if they wanted to inherit those promises. Obviously, the Law of Moses didn't apply to other peoples who had nothing to do with the blessings promised to Abraham and Jacob, much less to people that having believed in Jesus, the Messiah and Savior were under a completely new agreement with the Lord, the New Testament of Grace in Jesus' Blood. Unlike those children of Israel, to whom the Law had been given by Moses, the ones that have believed in Jesus didn't need that Law of Moses to receive their blessings. Their salvation, eternal life and other blessings didn't hinge on them keeping those laws, but in the Blood of Christ, which He had spilled for their salvation.

TINA: So, was Paul wrong in trying to impose the regulations of the Law of Moses of the Old Testament to people under the New Testament in Jesus' Blood?

TIM: He was completely wrong. He should have based his teaching and doctrine exclusively on the words of Jesus and no on the words of Moses. John wrote in his gospel, "For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ" (John 1: 17). Paul should have stuck to the grace and truth given by Jesus for those who believe, instead of reverting to the Law of Moses, which he had given to people who didn't believe in the Lord and the words of Moses and therefore were put under the Law. Abraham, Jacob hadn't been given any Law, because they have faith and followed the Lord willingly. In that, Paul erred, as he abandoned truth and grace to revert to the Law, which apparently, was still ingrained in him.

The religious Law binds but the Spirit makes us free

TINA: Paul, however had taught many times the opposite, isn't it, that believers should follow grace and truth and not the law.

TIM: He did many times. One place that comes to mind is recorded in 2 Corinthians 3: 17, where Paul says that, "...where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty." This liberty he is talking about is freedom from the traditions of man and from the religious law in order to exercise the gifts of the Spirit.

TINA: He was not talking about liberty from the civil or criminal laws of the countries where we may happen to live, which we should try to respect.

TIM: Right, he was not talking about freedom from the civil and criminal law, but religious law.

TINA: Any other instance of Paul teaching about the freedom of the Spirit?

TIM: Another one is in Galatians 5. First, he says in verse 18: "...if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law (of Moses)". Then in verses 5: 22 and 23, Paul is talking about the fruits of the Spirit and he writes that "...against such (the fruits of the Spirit) there is no law (of Moses)".

TINA:...that means that if we are filled with the Spirit -and if we have the fruits of the Spirit- we are not under Moses Law or other religious laws?

TIM: Yes. We are completely free through God's Spirit from the religious traditions and the Laws of Moses.

TINA: So, when Paul said that women couldn't speak in the church he was going back to the keeping of the Law of Moses! Was he choosing the restrictions of the Law over the New Testament's freedom, grace and truth?

TIM: It certainly seems like!

TINA: In this case, if Paul is contradicting himself and contradicting the teachings of Jesus, is the Bible contradicting itself?

TIM: Although it seems Paul is contradicting himself and contradicting the teaching of Jesus, there is no real contradiction, as far as the Bible is concerned.

The Bible simply records the Truth of what happened

TINA: Why not?

TIM: The Bible is simply recording the truth of what happened, and what Paul wrote and did. The Bible simply records what people did, whether it was right or wrong. And what Paul did right –as far as preaching the Gospel is concerned- far out-weights his mistakes.

TINA: So, the Bible is not contradicting itself?

TIM: The Bible is not contradicting itself, but it's just showing that Paul was a man like everybody else is and that he was contradicting himself and the teaching s of Jesus. Paul was a man and made mistakes as everybody else makes. Paul is not God or Jesus. He is not the Son and Word of God and he wasn't infallible. Really, the problem is that many treat everything Paul did or said as if it was the very oracle of God. However, in any statement or action in which he contradicted the words of Jesus, he was wrong, whether he was basing his opinion on the Law or on Old Testament traditions or the traditions of the children of Israel. For example, the Book of Acts of the Apostles, written by Luke, a close collaborator of Paul, records a number of instances in which Paul's actions were questionable, such as when insisted in going to Jerusalem in one occasion. Luke clearly records that the Holy Spirit warned him several times against going there, but Paul insisted in going, which almost cost him his life and it did cost him to be imprisoned and sent to Rome as a prisoner, where he finally was executed. Luke didn't record what happened to excuse Paul or to insinuate that people should imitate his blatant disobedience to the Spirit of God. (For more on this, see the ebook, 'Jesus Indeed', by Joseph Torie).

TINA: I see. It is not the fault of the records in Scripture. The record was showing Paul's mistake and disobedience, as well as the consequences of it.

Paul was a religious Extremist

TIM: Paul was a fanatical and a religious extremist whom some loved and some hated, but few could ignore. Paul went from being a scourge to the early Christians -persecuting them, taking them to jail and torturing them- to being one of the most ardent witnesses and apostles of Jesus in the Early Church. He went from one extreme of the religious spectrum to the other.

TINA: Paul was a man of extremes, an extremist and even after his conversion he sometimes would do extreme things.

TIM: Yes. Sometimes, he would, and sometimes he would be quite stubborn about what he thought was right, and he wouldn't listen to any one else about it.

TINA: Paul?

Scripture shows Paul as he was, no Embellishment

TIM: Yes and the New Testament show Paul as he was. It doesn't try to gloss over his mistakes -before or after he was converted- but the New Testament also shows that Paul –in spite of his mistakes- had a strong faith, conviction and love for the Lord! Furthermore, Paul's mistakes prove what he said time and again: that 'no one' is perfect, nor good enough, nor free from error! The Bible doesn't contradict itself in those points!

TINA: So Paul was a man who made mistakes –like everybody else- but also he was a great apostle and man of God, right?

TIM: Paul, in spite of anything he might have done wrong – before or after becoming a Christian- did much to spread the Gospel from Arabia to Spain, including Syria, Turkey, Greece, Rome, and the islands of the Mediterranean Sea.

TINA: Some people consider Paul to be the greatest of the apostles, when it comes to the work that he did and the instruction he passed to others.

TIM: And that is mostly right! Paul's impact in Christianity then and now is far reaching, and compared to any mistake or wrongs he might have done, the good he did is undeniable.

Scripture is a true Witness

TINA: So the Bible is right –and is not contradicting itself- by not editing Paul's Letters, neither trying to cover Paul's contradictions. The Bible is merely showing what Paul did, right or wrong.

TIM: Exactly! I think that's pretty clear in Paul's case. The Bible is a true witness! And the Spirit of God is "the Spirit of Truth", remember? (John 16: 13) Not only about Paul, but all through the Bible you will find that scripture is true and it tells the truth we need to know about people, or events, whether they were right or wrong, whether they were the good guys or the bad guys.

TINA: I understand the point, but could you give some examples of it?

TIM: Yes, of course, there are many. I think we discussed this before, when we talked about salvation, didn't we? We said that none of us is perfect and we all make mistakes. Paul and the first apostles were no exception!

TINA: I remember!

Paul didn't claim that everything he wrote was inspired by God

TIM: In the Old and New Testaments there are many samples of the good guys doing the wrong thing...

TINA: And Paul was no exception to that...

TIM: No exception... you also need to take into consideration that Paul didn't claim that everything he wrote was what the Lord told him, but that at times he would make the distinction that what he was saying was his own opinion -or their custom- and not something that the Lord had showed him.

TINA: Where does Paul say that something was his idea or opinion, but that the Lord hadn't shown him?

TIM: In 1 Corinthians chapter 7 –for example- he says it several times. In verse 6 he says "...I speak this by permission and not of commandment" and in verse 12 he says "...I speak and not the Lord..."

TINA: Did he mean that what he was saying was his own opinion but not necessarily the Lord's?

TIM: Exactly!

TINA: Any other example of this?

TIM: In 1 Corinthians 7: 25, he says that the Lord didn't tell him about certain subject but he nevertheless gives his judgment. He wrote, "I have no commandment from the Lord, yet I give my judgment". Finally in the same chapter in verse 40 he repeats that what he is saying is his judgment only, but he claims that he also has the spirit of God, implying that that what he says is right for them. "...after my judgment, and I think also that I have the Spirit of God" (1 Corinthians 7: 40).

TINA: So in all those cases Paul said that the Lord hadn't shown him, but he was just giving his judgment and opinion?

"We have no such Custom" (1 Corinthians 11: 16)

TIM: Yes... In another place he writes that "...we have no such custom..." (1 Corinthians 11: 16).

TINA: Obviously, many of the customs of the early Christians and Corinthian people -2000 years ago- had changed today. Probably, in many cases, today we are bound by the customs of those cultures and societies?

TIM: I am sure that Paul didn't mean for us to be. They were just the customs they had then and there.

TINA: And he wrote all those things in the same letter to the Corinthians where he said that he didn't allow women to speak in the church (1Corinthians 14: 34).

TIM: Yes!

TINA: Thanks for explaining that! So, are followers of Jesus bound by the customs and traditions of any of the previous generations of Christians or by the generally accepted traditions of Christianity? Are followers today supposed to follow 2000 year old traditions above what Jesus may show them to do today?

"Stand firm in the Liberty with which Christ has made us free" (Galatians 5: 1)

TIM: Believing in and following Jesus doesn't have anything to do with following traditions or customs, whether they are from the past or the present, but in following Jesus, wherever and however He may lead today and each individual or group of followers. They are not supposed to follow Paul or Peter, but to follow Jesus, much less are they supposed to follow the Laws of Moses or any other ancient teachings. Of course, people who want to follow those are perfectly free to do so, and it is their choice, but in that case they may not be following Jesus. Regarding the Jewish traditions and the Law of Moses, Paul wrote to the Galatians: "Stand firm therefore in the liberty with which Christ has made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage" (Galatians 5: 1).

TINA: What is the yoke of bondage Paul is talking about? Is that their traditions and customs?

TIM: He refers to the Law -in general- and to circumcision in particular, but if Jesus made us free from the Law, how much more He made us free from any other traditions or customs of the Greek people or of early believers. Actually, those who follow Jesus are only bound by the words of Jesus. In addition, they should also what's the Lord's will for them and for today.

TINA: Is that like what Jesus did in His case, that He ignored the religious traditions, social and even political customs and showed love to the despised, to prostitutes and sinners, to Romans and to anyone who desired God's love.

TIM: Right. I think Jesus established that very clearly in the gospels and with His sample. He wasn't bound by any traditions!

"The glorious Liberty of God's Children" (Romans 8: 21)

TINA: I think we have that fact clear, so what are we bound by?

TIM: I like to quote what Paul said to the Romans, explaining about whether they should or shouldn't eat this or that, or keep this tradition or that one. He wrote, "I know, and am persuaded by the Lord Jesus, that there is nothing unclean of itself: but to him that esteems anything to be unclean, to him it is unclean... for the kingdom of God is not meat and drink; but righteousness, and peace, and joy in the Holy Ghost" (Romans 14: 14 and 17).

TINA: Could that be applied to customs and traditions?

TIM: We can certainly apply that last verse, 17, "For the kingdom of God is... righteousness, and peace, and joy in the Holy Ghost". It has nothing to do with customs, traditions and different types of food or drinks.

TINA: Jesus makes His followers free from religious laws, traditions and customs of the past and present; free to follow Him and God's Spirit!

Our Freedom is only bound by God's Love

TIM: Exactly, and because we are free, we may even choose sometimes to keep some traditions or customs, or we may not eat or drink something not to hurt others.

TINA: I understand that point, that we are free, even to keep some traditions when necessary, but couldn't that be viewed as a double standard? Sometimes you eat, sometimes you don't eat? Sometimes you do, sometimes you don't?

TIM: Not when it is done in love, and without hypocrisy, as Paul wrote in the same chapter: "One man considers one day more sacred than another; another man considers every day alike. Each one should be fully convinced in his own mind"... "Let us therefore make every effort to do what leads to peace and to mutual edification... It is better not to eat meat or drink wine (in the presence of those people) or to do anything else that will cause your brother to fall" (New International Version, Romans 14: 5, 19 and 21).

TINA: So, if something is offensive to someone else, but we think it is OK, we shouldn't do that in their presence, because of love.

TIM: Yes. Why offend someone else with our liberty?

TINA: Now that we discussed this point about whether the Bible contradicts itself or not, and whether Paul contradicted himself or not, could we go back to what we were about to discuss previously?

TIM: And what was that?

TINA: Could you please give some other samples of the 'good' people in the Bible who made 'bad' mistakes?

TIM: Yes, of course! There are plenty and we may discuss some of the more notorious cases. ●

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Chapter 5 — The Good, The Bad And The Ugly

> "This is a faithful saying... Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief." (1 Timothy 1: 15)

'Good' People who sinned 'badly'

TINA: You were going to give some samples of the 'good' people in the Bible who made 'bad' mistakes.

TIM: I will choose only a few samples of how the Bible simply tells the truth about people, so that we can try to continue and finish our discussion about the Holy Spirit, OK?

TINA: Oh, yea! OK! But just to summarize, we were originally talking about the Holy Spirit, and then we got to discuss about 'male and female', about male chauvinism and about the temple of God and we have covered a few other subjects in the process.

TIM: Yes, and finally we discussed how the Bible tells the truth about people and doesn't purposely cover anyone's faults or mistakes. In fact, by showing people as they really were, it shows that it was God's Spirit who anointed them to do the amazing feats they often did. The purpose of talking about some of the Biblical heroes' mistakes and shortcomings is not to discredit them or just to throw mud to their characters, but instead to bring up that they were human as we are and that we should keep our eyes on the Lord's Spirit. In addition, it would help us to see more clearly right from wrong and to learn to forgive and understand others, as the Lord did them and forgave them.

Why we talk about the Bible Heroes' big Mistakes

TINA: In addition, it gives us hope that God could use us also, although we are not perfect!

TIM: Correct! That's a big encouragement to us sinners and 'normal' people.

TINA: That's why you were going to tell me about some of the 'very good' people in the Bible who made some 'bad mistakes'.

TIM: We all make mistakes and the Bible most of the time ignores people's usual mistakes, the-everyday-kind of mistakes, and the every-one-does-it kind of mistakes. But when mistakes are particularly bad, then it mentions them for our sakes, and so that we can understand what happened exactly. So, what we are talking about here is not only mistakes, but actual bad and serious sins, some even serious crimes committed by our Bible heroes.

We are talking about serious Sins, even Crimes

TINA: We are not talking about the type of mistakes we all do and the sins we are all guilty of, but of serious mistakes and big sins.

TIM: Right! In fact, as I just mentioned, the Bible seems to ignore many of the 'mistakes' made by people, but still has to point out the serious sins and wrongs.

TINA: Could that be the reason why many people have the idea that the Bible heroes were sort of sinless and perfect?

TIM: What exactly?

TINA: Because the Bible just ignores the normal human frailties and mistakes of its heroes, then people get the idea that they were special people that didn't make any mistakes?

TIM: It could be, but as we will see, the Bible –while ignoring the normal human frailties and mistakes common to all of us- it also points out when its heroes did something really out of it. I think that mostly the idea that the Bible heroes were perfect and sinless come from erroneous teaching from over-zealous religious people.

TINA: Any example of that?

Some defend their Heroes' 'Perfection' even against the Bible's Record

TIM: Well, we were discussing some of Paul's mistakes, which the records of Scripture don't try to hide or negate.

TINA: If even the records of Scripture expose the big mistakes by its heroes, why should people ignore that those heroes were just human and fallible.

TIM: Some people tend to gloss over those records and/or try to justify their heroes, even against the records of Scripture. Perhaps, they do that because of the wrong perception that if someone was loved by the Lord or if someone accomplished great things for the Lord, they should have been perfect and faultless. They assume that those Bible heroes were sinless, perfect and without blemish. In the process, they change the interpretation of scripture to protect their heroes' reputation, in some cases even contradicting some of the fundamental teachings of the Bible or of Jesus.

According to Jesus no one is good, not even the most outstanding of His Followers

TINA: Can you give an example of how people would contradict Jesus' teaching by arguing that their heroes were perfect or faultless?

TIM: Jesus said that none is good, except God. He said that when a man called Him 'Good Master". He told the man, "Why do you call me good? None is good, save one, that is, God" (Luke 18: 19).

TINA: Jesus taught that none is good except God. However, many religious people claim that this Bible character or that founder member of their congregation were sinless and saintly. Some even claim that about themselves and lecture others for being 'sinners'.

TIM: All those statements and assumptions not only contradict what Jesus taught, that "none is good, except God", but also have fomented the wrong idea that Christians should be faultless. This had also fed the self-righteousness of many believers and contributed to the perception of the non-religious that 'believers' are 'holier-than-thou' and self-righteous. This is contrary to what Jesus taught and to the central theme of the gospels that Jesus came to call sinners to repentance and not the righteous. Jesus told the Pharisees, "...They that be whole need not a physician, but they that are sick. But go and learn what that means, I will have mercy, and not sacrifice: for I am not come to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance" (Matthew 9: 12 and 13).

TINA: In what occasion did Jesus said that?

TIM: He was eating and talking with 'sinners' and the Pharisees and religious bigots accused Him of doing that.

"Except you be converted, and become as little children, you shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven" (Matthew 18: 3)

TINA: It seems that many of the present 'Pharisees' in churches wouldn't allow themselves to be seen with sinners, much less eat with them, either.

TIM: Yes. However, it would be wrong and prejudiced to assume that all Christians are Pharisees, although many are, unfortunately, and many of those even manage to get in positions of influence within their Christian groups and organizations. I think it has to do with a false perception of what true righteousness is. True righteousness is to only rely on God's righteousness and mercy towards us sinners and not to rely on any of our own assumed virtues, or any assumed good of our own or any religiosity.

TINA: However, isn't spirituality something that grows by prayer, meditation, study and self-improvement? Some people think it is.

TIM: It goes back to what Jesus told His disciples when they were arguing among themselves who was the greatest in God's Kingdom. He told them, "... Verily I say unto you, Except you be converted, and become as little children, you shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven. Whosoever therefore shall humble himself as this little child, the same is greatest in the kingdom of heaven" (Matthew 18: 3 and 4).

TINA: Is then any good in us a gift of God or a manifestation of His Spirit in us, rather than a self-honed virtue by us. It is something we receive and accept from God, just as a little child receives life from the parents?

TIM: Yes, any good in us is an outcropping of God's Spirit in us, a fruit of His Spirit and not any righteousness of our own. None is good, although those we call 'the righteous' are the ones that recognizing they are not good, desire to be filled with God's goodness and the receive His Light. We are not the Light, but those that long to have God's Light in them, receive it.

Scripture doesn't try to protect the Reputation of its Heroes

TINA: So, the Bible shows that we are not good, even in the case of those that were anointed with God's Light. They were still mere humans who shone with God's Light and Spirit, just like an oil lamp made of clay shines when oil is poured into it and lighted.

TIM: Right!

TINA: Is that why the Bible doesn't try to protect the reputation of their heroes, but rather shows that they were human, made of dust as we are and that even some committed a few big sins?

TIM: Yes. We can discuss the cases of people who are considered -according to some religious sources - to be 'very good', but whom still committed some 'very bad' sins. And we may also mention some samples of people who were really 'bad' but still the Bible gives them credit if they did any good; both extremes.

TINA: OK!

TIM: The following is an example of someone that is considered by most to have been really good... we mentioned a little about him and one of his crimes.

TINA: Who? King David?

King David's Sins...

TIM: Yes. King David is considered the greatest king Israel ever had, but still he did some very bad things.

TINA: You mentioned briefly how he killed an officer from his own army to take the man's wife.

TIM: He killed someone that was a very faithful and loyal officer. David had made love to that officer's wife -while the officer was away fighting in a war- and she had gotten pregnant.

TINA: Did David killed the officer personally or had someone doing it for him?

TIM: He ordered Joab, his general, to send the man in a dangerous mission to the very front of the battle, and to make sure that the man was left alone in the front, so that he got killed by the enemy.

TINA: David arranged for the officer to get killed by their enemies, so that he wouldn't be blamed for it, and to hide the fact that the woman was pregnant with David's baby?

TIM: Yes. David arranged for that officer's murder (2 Samuel, chapter 11) and God punished David severely for it, but because David eventually repented, and confessed, God also forgave him and continued to help him.

...And God's Mercy

TINA: God continued to help David and to bless him, after he repented and confessed that he had gotten the man killed?

TIM: Yes, although David had a lot of 'extra' trouble from then on.

TINA: That was nice of the Lord to forgive him. It gives hope to us also of being forgiven for our 'bad' sins.

TIM: Yes. If God could forgive David for murdering that man, even after everything the Lord had done for him, we know that He can forgive us, if we also confess and repent. In addition, He can continue to bless us and help us also!

TINA: God's mercy is so great! So, was David an example in the Old Testament of someone who was forgiven, as we were going to be forgiven under the New Testament?

TIM: Yes, exactly. We could all be forgiven like David was... if we confess our sins and are willing to change.

TINA: But what happened to the woman afterward?

TIM: It's a long story, but David married her and that woman had another son with David, and God promised that the son would become the next king of Israel after David. That son was Solomon, who became the next king of Israel.

God's unconventional Ways and Choices

TINA: After David killed one of his men to steal the man's wife, God gave David and that woman a son, and the son became the next king of Israel?

TIM: Right. Yes! The first son the woman had with David died. That was part of David's punishment, but then the Lord gave them another baby boy, who later succeeded David as king.

TINA: Why did God do that? Didn't David have any other kids, or any other wives?

TIM: David had a number of wives and many children.

TINA: Then, why didn't God choose a son from one of his other wives? Hadn't he married previously in a somewhat more conventional way? Or was Solomon his older son?

TIM: Good questions! Solomon wasn't his oldest son and –as I said- David had a number of other wives and had many other sons, but the Lord still choose Solomon to be the next king!

TINA: Why? I don't get it!

TIM: God throughout the Bible often chose in a different way from what we would have chosen.

TINA: But what's the purpose of that choice? It looks almost as if the Lord was encouraging David's wrongdoing, by blessing the son he had with that woman.

TIM: Apparently and instead the Lord was encouraging David's repentance, really. It also shows that even though we may have sinned greatly and might not deserve His blessings, that there is still a chance for all of us, if we make things right with the Lord. It shows that the Lord's mercy can change something that is very bad into something good, if we are willing to confess and change!

TINA: I see.

Lessons David learned from his Failures and Sins

TIM: After David was exposed for his great sin, he really changed!

TINA: How did he change, in which way?

TIM: Well, up to that point in his life, David had been most of the time a 'good' person and apparently sometimes he was a little self-righteous, feeling and thinking that the Lord was blessing him so much because he -David- was 'so good'.

TINA: Do you mean that David perhaps felt that he deserved those blessings because he was such a good person and king?

TIM: Exactly. You can see a hint of that in some of his earlier psalms in which he claims to be so good while he accused his enemies of being so crooked. For example, in some of the Psalms he compared himself to King Saul –who wanted to kill David- or to the 'heathen' of other nations, and it seems he naturally felt he was better than them.

TINA: How was David comparing himself to King Saul?

TIM: Well, King Saul was unjustly trying to kill David –out of jealousy- but David hadn't kill Saul, although he had a couple of opportunities to do it (1Samuel 23, 24 and 26).

TINA: Didn't David said that he would never touch 'the Lord's anointed', the king? And wasn't it a good thing that David didn't kill King Saul, even when he had a couple of opportunities, and even when Saul was trying to kill him?

TIM: But apparently after a while, David got somehow self-righteous about it, perhaps encouraged by other people's praise, and he begun to think of himself as a good person and -in fact- perhaps better than others. It seems that he started to think that the reason why he was such a good and successful king was because he was so good.

TINA: Do you mean that perhaps he started to think that he was good and that therefore he deserved those blessings and not that the Lord had blessed him just out of love?

TIM: Maybe... perhaps that's what happened to him.

TINA: Do you mean that he was becoming a little like the man Jesus talked about in one of his parables, a man that went to the temple to pray and thanked the Lord that he wasn't "as other men are, extortionists, unjust, adulterers"? (Luke 18: 10 to 14).

TIM: In any case, after David's sin was exposed he became more humble and more like the publican in the parable. His attitude was more like: "Lord, have mercy on me, a sinner". So, David really changed and grew from that experience, and understood much better the Lord's mercy and love. David became more humble and thankful to the Lord, and also became much more merciful towards others.

David did the opposite of what he had been bragging about

TINA: Why do you think that it was self-righteousness the cause of David's sin? And why do you think the Lord allowed it?

TIM: Because by killing his officer, David did exactly the opposite of what he had apparently been bragging about, that he wouldn't touch or kill one of the Lord's anointed ones: he killed a good officer, an innocent man, just to cover up his sin and to steal the man's wife.

TINA: Do you mean that David did to Uriah what King Saul had tried to do to David, but the Lord hadn't allowed?

TIM: Yes. David killed an innocent man to cover his wrongdoing and to keep the man's wife.

TINA: I see. What about David's son, was Solomon a good king?

TIM: Solomon is often credited with being the wisest king Israel had.

TINA: Cool, and was he?

Solomon had great Wisdom... but in the End became a great Fool

TIM: When Solomon first became king, he didn't feel he could be a good king as his father David had been, so he asked the Lord for wisdom to rule Israel and God made him very wise and also gave him great riches and peace. The Bible shows how wise he was.

TINA: Yes... that's what I have understood about him.

TIM: Yes, but in spite of all his wisdom, Solomon in the end worshiped false gods, and idols of stone, wood and metal.

TINA: Although Solomon was so wise, still he stopped loving the Lord above all!

TIM: Yes! Does that surprise you?

TINA: Well, yes... why did he do that? Why, if he was so wise, didn't he love God above anything else to the end? And why if he was supposed to be so wise, yet he was so dumb that he worshiped 'gods' made of wood and stone? It doesn't seem so wise.

Love is greater than Wisdom

TIM: That maybe illustrates that we should love the Lord, even above our love for wisdom and understanding! It also shows that Love is much greater than intelligence and understanding!

TINA: I hadn't thought about that!

TIM: Remember that we have discussed before? The most important thing is to love the Lord above all else, and the second is to love others. No other thing really is more important than this! And love is a matter of the heart and not a matter of the mind. Love is a matter of the spirit, really: God is a Spirit and God is Love!

TINA: Where does it say that 'God is Love'?

TIM: In 1 John 4: 8 it says that, "He that doesn't love, doesn't know God; for God is love" Love is greater than anything else... of course, even greater than wisdom and intelligence!

TINA: Is there an example of a 'good' person -in the New Testament- who might have made some big bad mistakes? Not just someone in the Old Testament, but is there a sample of this in the New Testament, apart from what we were discussing about Paul's possible mistake.

God spoke through Peter...

TIM: A classical sample in the New Testament is the Apostle Peter, who although loved the Lord so much, sometimes did or said the wrong thing.

TINA: Really? Like what?

TIM: For example, once, Peter rightly confessed to Jesus -in front of the other disciples- that Jesus is the Savior, the Son of God!

TINA: That was good... wasn't it?

TIM: Yes... And as a result Jesus told Peter, "You are blessed... for flesh and blood had not revealed this to you, but my Father which is in heaven" (Matthew 16: 17). Here Jesus told Peter that God had spoken through his (Peter's) own mouth.

TINA: I imagine that encouraged Peter so much.

...Then Satan spoke through Peter

TIM: Yes! Then, as you read on, a few lines after that in the same chapter, you will find that Jesus rebuked Peter and told him that Satan was speaking through his mouth!

TINA: Jesus said that to Peter? Why?

TIM: It says, "From that time on Jesus began to show to his disciples that he must go to Jerusalem... and be killed... (but)... Peter took him aside, and began to rebuke him, saying, 'Be it far from you, Lord: this shall not be unto you'."

TINA: Wasn't it right for Peter to try to avoid that Jesus would be killed?

TIM: It was wrong! Peter was trying to convince Jesus that He shouldn't die for us! Peter was using his 'carnal' reasoning –what the Bible calls to lean on our own understanding- and he was arriving to the wrong conclusion.

TINA: Oh... I see... Jesus had to give His life; He had to die to save us!

TIM: Right! But apparently after being praised by Jesus, Peter also became a little proud about it and felt that he knew better than God...and apparently he felt that he could correct and instruct the Lord.

TINA: Then... what happened?

TIM: "...Jesus... said unto Peter, Get behind me, Satan (get out of my way, Satan): you are an offense unto me: for you don't understand the things that are of God, but those that are of men" (Matthew 16: 21 to 23).

Imperfect Heroes who loved God

TINA: Jesus first 'blessed' Peter and said that God Himself had spoken to him -and through him- and then soon afterward Jesus rebuked Peter and told him that Satan was talking through his mouth?

TIM: Right, and what Jesus said was right. This shows the way many of the heroes in the Bible were, in fact, all of us.

TINA: How were they?

TIM: They were simple, normal men who made mistakes and even did some very dumb things. Nevertheless, they loved God and trusted Him to forgive them! They were just like you and me!

TINA: So, although they were normal people, because they loved the Lord, the Spirit of God anointed them to do the things they did for Him?

TIM: Yes. Peter was a great disciple and apostle, who gave his life to follow Jesus and teach others about Him. He was one of the main leaders of the Early Church.

TINA: And in the end, he died for the name of Jesus.... Peter was a great man of God! Still, he wasn't perfect.

TIM: Yes! He was neither perfect, and according to the words of Jesus, nor good.

TINA: Because none is good, except one, that's God, as Jesus told the man that called Him, Good Master!

TIM: Right!

TINA: I see why the Bible doesn't try to protect people's reputation neither tries to pretend that its heroes were always right or perfect!

Peter denied three Times that he knew Jesus, mere Hours after saying that he was willing to die for the Lord

TIM: Exactly! And that's because by showing that they were 'human' and 'normal' people, others can see that it was the Spirit of God that made them different, great, powerful and victorious!

TINA: And proves that God could do the same with us, right?

TIM: Right! Look at what happened also to Peter on another occasion! Jesus had chosen him to be one of the main leaders of His new movement! Then, the minute Jesus was accused by the religious leaders Peter denied three times that he knew the Lord, even before Jesus was crucified and when Jesus was still alive.

TINA: Then, what happened?

TIM: Then he hid with the other disciples for a number of days, as they realized that they couldn't do a thing on their own. They realized that they didn't have the power to do the Lord's work.

TINA: Was that good or bad?

TIM: It was painful for them to realize their own weakness... even to realize that they were not as good as they have previously thought, but it was necessary! A few hours before denying Jesus, Peter had told the Lord that he was willing to die for Him and that he would never deny Jesus... and so did the other disciples (Matthew 26: 31 to 35).

The Spirit takes away Fear

TINA: However, he did deny Jesus... which showed that he didn't have the power to be faithful to the Lord!

TIM: Yes... they all denied Jesus and ran away in fear. But then after Peter (and the other disciples) received the Holy Spirit; he and they became bold as a lion. They didn't fear to tell the very people who had killed Jesus that they were His followers and that they believed in Him (Acts 3: 14, 15 and 5: 29). In fact, they announced boldly in all of Jerusalem the message of Jesus.

TINA: And that shows that the Holy Spirit gave them boldness and took away their fears.

TIM: You are very right! That's something the Spirit does for us! It gives us POWER to be witnesses of the truth and of Jesus, although still we are just weak people and really no good (Acts 1: 8).

TINA: So, to have the courage and power to be Jesus' witnesses and to tell others about Him, we need God's Spirit.

TIM: Yes. And we will talk more about that later! But now let's go back to what we were discussing. Let's go back to the fact that when the Bible shows the human weakness of its heroes -and sometimes their blatant disobedience- the Bible is not contradicting itself, but it is a true witness of human frailties and limitations, no matter who the people were, whether they were King David, Peter, Paul or others.

TINA: I see!

TIM: The Bible simply tells the truth! Just like Jesus did: He simply spoke the truth! And as we just saw, the Bible does that at least for two important reasons.

TINA: One is to show that God was the one that did the wonderful works through those men: it gives the glory to God!

TIM: Right!

Even the Bible Heroes were neither good nor perfect, but they loved the Lord and trusted in His Mercy

TINA: And the other is that if God could use weak people who just loved and followed Him, He could certainly use us also to do His will and work, if we also love and follow Him, even if we are not perfect or no good.

TIM: Yea, we don't have to be perfect –as some people claim- for God to use us. And He can use us even if we have made some big mistakes and committed some great sins, as those men of God in the Bible did.

TINA: This really inspires me -as strange as it seems- that even God's great heroes made mistakes and that in some ways they were just human, like you and me! It gives me hope that God could use me also!

TIM: Yes. One of the reasons why we are talking about this is to understand why sometimes Paul -or others who loved the Lord very much- contradicted the Words of Jesus with their actions or words. Another reason is that although were neither good nor perfect, they did accomplish much for the Lord's because of their trust in the Lord and in His mercy. In addition, that sometimes, we can't take their words or actions as our guide and standard, but that we can always trust in the words of the Lord, as our unfailing benchmark.

TINA: I see. Those are three good reasons for this discussion.

TIM: Yes. All those good reasons back up why those actions of the Bible heroes were recorded and left unchanged in Scripture.

The Book of Truth

TINA: So, the Bible is not trying to prove -or pretend- that its heroes were faultless, not even that they were good.

TIM: Yes... quite to the contrary, the Bible is a testimony to the truth that we are all men "subject to like passions", as James wrote (James 5: 17). The Bible is not trying to cover up for people's sins and mistakes, no matter whom! Scripture doesn't hide the truth even about its heroes.

TINA: So, we can trust the Bible to tell the Truth no matter what.

TIM: Yes, absolutely! In the same way, the Bible would give credit to those that did good things, even if they were considered by others to be 'the bad' people. ●

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Chapter 6 — Man Wasn't Made For The Law

> "The Sabbath was made for man and not man for the Sabbath" (Mark 2: 27)

'Bad' People who did some good Things!

TINA: What would be a sample of a 'bad' person to whom the Bible gives credit for doing some good thing?

TIM: Again, there are many samples of this too. One that comes to mind is about Herod Antipas, the ruler of Galilee, the one who got John the Baptist killed and later ruled against Jesus!

TINA: It sounds like he was a bad person!

TIM: Herod did many bad things, and the gospel speaks of "all the evils which Herod had done" (Luke 3: 19).

TINA: This Herod Antipas is the same one we mentioned before, the Tetrarch of Galilee, the son of so called Herod, the Great?

TIM: Exactly! But although the Bible says that Herod (Antipas) the Tetrarch wasn't good, It also says in the Book of Mark that, "Herod feared John (the Baptist), knowing that he was a just man and holy, and observed him and when he (Herod) heard John, he did many things (that John said), and heard him gladly" (Mark 6: 20).

TINA: What does it mean?

TIM: Here, the Bible says that Herod –who was such a bad man- still knew that John was a man of God, and respected him, listened to what John had to say gladly, and that Herod did many things (obeyed) that John said he should do.

God doesn't lie!

TINA: Amazing! The Bible says that side-by-side with the fact that he did some pretty bad things!

TIM: Yep... Herod Antipas was very bad, just as his father -Herod the Great- had been, but as you can see, the Bible gives him credit for whatever good he did! It also says that -when Herod was tricked in to killing John the Baptist by his step-daughter Salome- he (Herod) "...was exceeding sorry" to have to kill John (Mark 6: 26).

TINA: That's amazing that he killed John the Baptist although he feared him and although he knew that John was a prophet of God!

TIM: Those are some examples of how the Bible always tells the truth, whether speaking about its heroes, about the 'bad' people, or about anyone else. There is no difference: Scripture tells the truth!

TINA: So the Bible doesn't contradict itself and it never lies! The Bible doesn't teach that the 'good' people in the Bible were perfect, or that they never made mistakes!

TIM: Right! We all make mistakes and even the people of God do! Remember that the Holy Spirit is the Spirit of Truth (John 14: 17, 15: 26 and 16: 13)! So the Bible will not lie!

TINA: I see!

Only Jesus' words and actions are perfect and without Sin

TIM: None was or is righteous, not even one! Only Jesus was without sin! And only Jesus' words and actions were perfect and without sin! And do you know why?

TINA: Why?

TIM: Because He is the only One that did everything in love and in obedience to God the Father. No one else, ever, did that!

TINA: Only Jesus was sinless!

TIM: Yes, the only One ever! And His words and actions were and are all right! No mistake in His part! But everybody else –hero or heel, no matter who- was a sinner and needs the Savior! And even if they were very, very 'good', their words and actions still may contain mistakes or faults, whether they were in the Old or in the New Testament times. There have never been perfect people.

TINA: So, all those Saints recognized and canonized by the Roman Catholic Church, or other groups of Christians were not 'saints' after all?

TIM: Many of them were truly outstanding men and women of God -and worth the praise and recognition they receive- but none was perfect. Not even one!

TINA: Only Jesus was perfect.

TIM: Right! The religious leaders of Jesus' day often accused Him of breaking Moses' Law; however He never did break the Law of God's Love, because He always did the Father's will, even when it was difficult to do.

Why some religious Leaders misunderstood Jesus?

TINA: So why did they accuse Him of breaking the Laws of Moses?

TIM: His accusers only looked at the outward appearance, and often complained that Jesus was breaking their laws and traditions, but He was really helping, and healing people.

TINA: You mean to say that they didn't see the true motives behind Jesus' actions?

TIM: Right! They were blind to the things of the spirit. Jesus called them "blind leaders of the blind" (Matthew 15:14). Many times the religious leaders complained that Jesus had healed people or done something good and their main complains were that He had broken their religious laws to do so.

TINA: They accused Him because He healed people in one of their holy days.

TIM: The Law of Moses stated that no one should do any work on a Sabbath or on a holy day! Their excessive legalism made them blind to the Spirit and love of God. Specifically, they couldn't see that there is no religious law that can prevent the Lord or His followers from doing good, loving and helping others.

TINA: Where does it say that people shouldn't work in their holy days?

TIM: It's in the book of Exodus... let me see... here, Exodus 31: 15: "Six days may work be done; but in the seventh is the Sabbath of rest, holy to the LORD: whosoever does any work in the Sabbath day, he shall surely be put to death."

TINA: Did they want to kill Jesus for healing and helping people on the Sabbath?

"Judge righteous Judgment"

TIM: Yes. "And therefore did the Jews persecute Jesus, and sought to slay (kill) him, because he had done these things on the Sabbath day. But Jesus answered them, 'My Father works hitherto (until now), and I work'. Therefore the Jews sought the more to kill him, because he not only had broken the Sabbath, but said also that God was his Father, making himself equal with God" (John 5: 16 to 18).

TINA: But Jesus was right by healing and helping people, no matter what day of the week it was!

TIM: Right! God helps us every day. He never rests from helping us... Jesus finally asked them... "Are you angry at me because I have completely healed a man on the Sabbath day? Judge not according to the appearance, but judge righteous judgment" (John 7: 23 and 24).

TINA: What did Jesus mean by that?

TIM: He meant that they should not just judge at the appearance or outwardly, but should judge with mercy and compassion. It's not wrong to help others, no matter what holy day it is, there is 'no holiday' to love and love is always right!

TINA: When Jesus told the Jews that they should judge righteous judgment, He meant that they should do things in love, even if what they did apparently broke their laws?

The Law was made for Man, and not Man for the Law

TIM: Yes. Jesus said "The Sabbath was made for man and not man for the Sabbath" (Mark 2: 27).

TINA: And what did He mean by that?

TIM: Jesus meant that God gave the Law to help man... The Law was made for man's sake... and not man for the law's sake. Specifically, the Law was a contract between the children of Israel and the Lord. The Patriarchs had not needed any law because of their love for the Lord and their desire to please and follow Him. However, after the children of Israel had spent 400 years in Egypt, they have lost the faith of their forefathers, as it is clearly recorded in the Old Testament. The Lord gave the Law through Moses as a condition and way for them to be able to continue to benefit of the Lord's blessings and protection. Abraham and Jacob, to whom great promises had been given, didn't need any Law, as they loved and trusted the Lord, unlike many of their descendants. Therefore, the Lord gave the Law as a way for the wayward children of Israel to continue to be blessed and to receive the promises given to their forefathers. The Law was given for their benefit. It was not meant to harm them or made slaves to the Law, but to help them to receive the great blessings promised to their ancestors.

The Law wasn't meant to stop People from loving and helping others

TINA: Could you give a sample of how the law about the Sabbath was to help people?

TIM: Yes. If you were working for someone else, the law of the Sabbath protected your right to rest one day a week and to worship the Lord. If you were your own boss, the law also reassured you that it was OK to take a break and that it was necessary. But certainly that law didn't mean that you shouldn't help others, or love others on the Sabbath day.

TINA: So, the religious law wasn't meant to harm people but to help them?

TIM: Right!...And it wasn't meant to stop people from doing what's good, or from doing what's right.

TINA: When Jesus healed people or helped them on the Sabbath, He was doing it out of compassion and love.

TIM: Right! He was doing that in love... and it was according to God's Law of Love, even if it apparently broke the Mosaic Law!

God's Law is the Rule of Love

TINA: I see... and what does it mean 'God's Law of Love'? Isn't that the Law of Moses?

TIM: No, it's not Moses Law, but God's Law of Love and Jesus' own Law!

TINA: And what's that Law?

TIM: One important part of God's Law of Love is that anything we do out of unselfish love and to help others -to share God's Love with them- is right in God's eyes, no matter what others think about it. If we love God above anything else and love others as we do ourselves, we fulfill God's Law of Love. If we forgive others their offenses against us, God forgives us our offenses against Him. If we give to the poor, God gives to us. If we are merciful, God extends His mercy to us. If we share God's love with others, God blesses us even more.

TINA: Beautiful...! Is that why it was perfectly right for Jesus to heal people on the holy day, even if apparently contradicted the Laws of Moses? In addition, is that why it was perfectly right for Jesus to hang around with 'sinners' in order to help them?

TIM: Yes. This is really the New Testament Law, also called the Law of Christ! Paul wrote: "Bear (carry) one another's burdens, and so fulfill the law of Christ" (Galatians 6: 2).

"Go and learn what this means"

TINA: That's the New Testament Law?

TIM: Yes! Jesus told the religious leaders: "...go and learn what this means: I will have mercy, and not sacrifice..." (Matthew 9: 13).

TINA: Does that mean that what God wants is for us to forgive others and to have compassion, instead of keeping some religious regulations, or offering some sacrifices?

TIM: Yes.

TINA: When people make mistakes, He wants us to try to understand them, instead of accusing them of breaking some religious 'laws'.

TIM: Exactly! Jesus' accusers often missed the point of God's love towards us... they even completely missed the point of the teachings of the Old Testament and of the prophets.

TINA: Like what teachings of the prophets?

TIM: Like Isaiah the prophet. He wrote: "Let the wicked forsake his way, and the unrighteous man his thoughts: and let him return unto the LORD, and he will have mercy upon him; and to our God, for he will abundantly pardon" (Isaiah 55: 7).

Love fulfills all the Laws

TINA: Was that the chapter about God's ways being higher than man's ways?

TIM: Yes, that's it!

TINA: And those sinners and publicans who Jesus received and befriended were 'unrighteous and wicked men' returning to the Lord, as Isaiah put it... and they followed, listened and believed in Jesus.

TIM: Yes! And God forgave them, even though the religious people disapproved of it.

TINA: Because some of those religious people didn't understand God's love?

TIM: Yes... and they didn't understand that they were also no good and they also needed God's mercy and forgiveness. They were more concerned with punishment, sacrifices, and the Law than they were with Love and Mercy. They were more focused on sin than on forgiveness. In contrast Jesus said, "...I came not to judge the world, but to save the world" (John 12: 47).

TINA: Is Love above any religious laws?

TIM: Yes, and this can be summarized in the words of Jesus in Matthew 22: 37 to 40.

TINA: The one about Loving God above anything else?

TIM: Yes. Jesus said that if we love God above anything else and we love our neighbor as we do ourselves, that these two fulfill all the religious law and the prophets.

The New Commandment

TINA: That makes things so much easier to understand! Are there any other scriptures that show that love fulfills the Law?

TIM: Many! For example, Paul wrote: "...love one another: for he that loves another has fulfilled the law" (Romans 13: 8).

TINA: Did Jesus say the same, that to love was His new Law for us: God's Law of Love?

TIM: Yes! He said, "A new commandment I give to you: that you love one another; as I have loved you". (John 13: 34); "This is my commandment, that you love one another, as I have loved you" (John 15: 12).

TINA: Pretty clear.

TIM: And "These things I command you, that you love one another." Then John wrote "And this is His (God's) commandment that we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as He (Jesus) gave us commandment" (1 John 3: 23).

TINA: So, that's God's Commandment: to believe in Jesus and to love one another! Then, why some Christians think that they should keep the Ten Commandments and not what Jesus said?

'New Testament' Christians

TIM: Those that keep Jesus' commandment to love and to forgive are what some call 'New Testament' Christians.

TINA: What about the ones who don't?

TIM: Those who still try to keep Moses' Ten Commandments and other religious laws and traditions, and those that claim that they deserve salvation because they are religious and good -instead of receiving God's forgiveness by grace- are what some have called 'Old Testament' Christians. Some of the same also try to impose those old laws -that couldn't save- on others and are often critical of those that don't try to keep -or pretend to keep- them.

TINA: Are New Testament and Old Testament kind of Christians both saved?

TIM: We can only be saved by grace through faith, as Paul wrote in Ephesians 2: 8 and 9. He rightly wrote, "For by grace are you saved, through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast". Only Jesus' love can save us! We can't save ourselves by trying to keep commandments or religious laws!

TINA: I see!

TIM: So, back to the fact that the Bible doesn't contradict itself! The Bible contains the Word of God and His Word is true, and that's why it also shows people's mistakes, whether the same were considered to be 'good' or 'bad' people by others.

TINA: As Jesus said, we should judge a righteous judgment!

TIM: Yes. We started talking about all these things because we were discussing whether is possible that Paul could had been wrong in forbidding women to speak in the Church.

Some people hold Paul's sayings above Jesus' Words

TINA: You said that he was probably wrong in doing that, contradicting the New Testament's spiritual freedom, unless he only meant that about certain of the women among a group of believers in Corinth, a Greek city. He could have been right in saying that if he, as an elder of that church, was disciplining some of its members for doing or saying something wrong.

TIM: Right, if he meant all Christian women, he was wrong and contradicting the Spirit of God and leaning on Old Testament legalism. However, if he was just disciplining a handful of people in one of the churches he was an elder, that's his right. The problem comes when his opinion about a handful of believers in one of his churches in Greece, two thousand years ago, becomes a dogma and it is imposed to millions of people throughout the centuries. Especially, when it is done just because Paul said so, against what the gospels teach and against the freedom of the Spirit granted by Jesus, the Son of God and Savior.

TINA: That would have been wrong and followers of Jesus shouldn't follow that. Could you summarize why it was wrong, please?

TIM: It's wrong because it contradicts the teaching of Jesus, and even Paul's main teachings.

TINA: When some people follow what Paul said about women not speaking in the church are they holding on to what Paul said above what Jesus said?

TIM: Some people could think that Paul didn't make -or couldn't make- any mistakes and sort of blindly follow whatever he said, or perhaps they think that if it is in the Bible it must be because it's right. However, they end up being misled by this type of ideas and by not putting the words of Jesus above everything else.

TINA: So, some people think that way, even if what Paul said contradicted the main teachings of the New Testament, and even his own teaching? But, we know that Paul wrote that we all have sinned, and that we could only be saved by grace, so I am sure that he didn't think that he couldn't make any mistakes?

TIM: I am sure that he didn't consider himself above that, but that he knew that he could make mistakes also.

TINA: It seems that some people get confused because mistakenly, they assign the same infallibility that we should give to the words of Jesus to the words of His followers.

TIM: Yea... in some cases they do that... but only the Words and acts of Jesus are infallible and perfect.

TINA: But most of the words of His followers are right, isn't it?

Jesus' Followers are not infallible

TIM: Although many -and perhaps most- of the recorded words of the Lord's followers were inspired by the Holy Spirit, their words and actions are not infallible.

TINA: Your position is that only Jesus' words in the Bible are completely right.

TIM: Yes. Sometimes, His words seem to contradict people's customs, morals or 'common sense' and to contradict even the words of those thought to be very religious or very righteous. For sure, the things He said and did infuriated many of the religious leaders of His day enough for them to plot to get Him killed.

TINA: I see.

TIM: that's because God's ways are not man's ways, but His ways are much higher than man's, as the prophet Isaiah 55: 7 to 9 prophesied.

What God does is always right

TINA: That means that what God does, even if it is not according to our way of thinking or way of doing things is right.

TIM: Exactly! I think the life of Jesus is a good sample of that. He did many things that many misunderstood and misunderstand, even Christians today.

TINA: Did some of the Lord's followers sometimes made mistakes by doing or saying what seemed logical or reasonable? Were they sometimes wrong by trying to do that which was 'common sense', politically correct and accepted by others?

TIM: Yes! It still happens to all of us and it had happened to every one of God's people. We are all imperfect and we all make mistakes.

Paul often confessed that he wasn't good and he was right in doing so

TINA: Even Paul wasn't perfect!

TIM: Paul didn't seem to think that he was perfect at all. In fact, he often said that he was a sinner and not good.

TINA: Where can I read that?

TIM: In different places... one example is in the first letter to Timothy when he wrote: "This is a faithful saying... Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief" (1 Timothy 1: 15).

TINA: He said 'I am' and not 'I was'.

TIM: Yes! And he added that it was 'a faithful saying'.

TINA: Any other example?

TIM: He also wrote to the Romans: "For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwells no good thing..." (Romans 7: 18) and "...with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin" (Romans 7: 25).

TINA: Again, he is speaking in the present tense, and not just saying that he used to do that. So, Paul didn't claim to be perfect but imperfect... like everybody else.

Paul didn't claim to be always right

TIM: Yea! And he wasn't just being modest. He was telling people the truth! He added: "O wretched (miserable) man that I am! Who shall deliver me from the body of this death?" (Romans 7: 24).

TINA: It is important to know and understand that Paul didn't think that he was always right, don't you think?

TIM: Yes, of course. It is important in order to understand the New Testament and to understand why the Bible keeps a record even of the mistakes made by Paul and God's people.

TINA: Otherwise, we would mistakenly think that God's heroes were perfect –as some teach- and then we would think that everything they say or did was right... and that we should do exactly as they did.

TIM: Yes. That would be the wrong conclusion. That would contradict what Jesus said, that none is good, except One, that's God.

If Paul meant 'all Christian Women of all Time', he was mistaken

TINA: So, in Paul's case, when he wrote that he forbade women to speak or prophesy in the church, he could have been wrong.

TIM: As mentioned, if he only meant the women in that church of Corinth –of which he was its elder-, we cannot judge as we don't know what the situation there at that time was, and we have to give him the benefit of the doubt. However, if he meant all Christian women -of all time- he was definitely contradicting God's plan in the New Testament.

TINA: In that case, if people would be bound by 'everything' Paul wrote to the Corinthians and about the women of Corinth, they would get confused, wouldn't they?

TIM: Yes! Some Christians today, as a result of Paul writing that, still forbid women in their meetings to prophesy or to speak, etc., contradicting the main teachings of the New Testament! In the end in trying to keep up with the 'Letter to the Corinthians' they contradict the more important teachings of Jesus and the Spirit of the New Testament, including also Paul's main teachings!

TINA: So due to this misunderstanding of the scriptures, some people can have the wrong idea that we are still living under the Old Testament's rules and legalism regarding some matters? They can still be following traditions and regulations of the Law in the Old Testament.

Some Christians still live under Old Testament Laws

TIM: Some are still following the Old Testament rules instead of the New Testament grace and freedom. This happens not only regarding whether women can or can't speak in the meetings of the church, but also regarding salvation.

TINA: Could you please give another specific scripture that shows that the Law couldn't save us, but that Jesus saved us?

TIM: Yes, of course. I could give you so many! One of them is in Acts 13: 39 where Paul says, "...by Him (Jesus) all that believe are justified from all things (forgiven all sins), from which you could not be justified by the Law of Moses".

TINA: Pretty clear! Then those Christians who are still bound by some of the old rules and regulations of the Old Testament -instead of being made free by the Love and grace of the New- are the ones some people call 'Old Testament' Christians?

Fallen from Grace!

TIM: Yes! And that's why Paul rightly wrote to the Galatians that, "Christ is become of no effect unto you, whoever of you are (trying to be) justified by the law (of Moses); you have fallen from (God's) grace" (Galatians 5: 4).

TINA: Why did he write that?

TIM: He wrote that to people who had become Christians –and were saved by grace- but who were later persuaded by others to try to justify or keep their salvation by keeping the Laws of Moses: Paul said that they had fallen from God's grace!

TINA: So, saved people who try to justify themselves by keeping the Mosaic Law or the Ten Commandments are falling from the Grace of the New Testament into the works of the Old One?

TIM: Yes, and that includes Paul himself, when he wrote, "Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience as also says the law (of Moses)" (1 Corinthians 14: 34). There, Paul also was falling from grace back to the legalism of the Old Law.

TINA: I see. Then, if salvation is by grace alone, we don't need to keep any of the commandments in the law, right? That's why Jesus said that loving God all our heart and all our soul and loving our neighbor as ourselves fulfills all the Law and the Prophets.

Those that try to justify themselves by keeping even one Law, become Debtors to all the Laws

TIM: Right! Paul explained this clearly in the letter to the Galatians also: about salvation by grace and not by keeping the Mosaic Law. He wrote, "For I testify again to every man that is circumcised (circumcision was like the 'embodiment' of the law), that he is a debtor to do the whole law (should keep all the laws of the Old Testament)" (Galatians 5: 3).

TINA: And can you explain what 'circumcision' is?

TIM: When a male, whether a boy or a man is circumcised, a part -or all- of his foreskin is cut off. This is done often as a religious ceremony, both by Jews and by Muslims.

TINA: But why would someone be debtor to the whole law, just by claiming the fulfillment of only one law or condition?

TIM: Because by claiming we are justified by the fulfillment of even one law or regulation, we abandon the testament and contract of grace –we abandon the tribunal or court of God's grace- and appeal to the testament of the law –we enter the tribunal and court of the law- and embrace the contract of the law. Those that do that have fallen –or rather jumped down- from grace intro the court of the law (Galatians 5: 4).

TINA: And that's why by trying to justify ourselves by the keeping of even one of the laws, we would be indebted to all the laws. We wouldn't be trusting in Jesus' mercy and forgiveness, but in our own righteousness in fulfilling the law?

TIM: Right! Exactly! And if we'd do that, we'd "...have fallen from grace!" (Galatians 5: 4). And that's a sad choice because truly we can only be saved by grace, never by fulfilling laws.

God's Love frees us from all the Religious Laws

TINA: So, Jesus gave us a New Testament of Love that made us free from the religious law!

TIM: Yes! He gave us the Law of Love! And Love frees us from the burden of the former religious laws.

TINA:... His Spirit is for sure the Spirit of Love and Liberty!

TIM: Yes... as Paul wrote, "...the Lord is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty" (2 Corinthians 3: 17).

TINA: Beautiful scripture! ●

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Chapter 7 — New Testament of Love!

Can saved People do whatever they want ... even if it's wrong?

TINA: We have discussed extensively that we don't live anymore under the rigid rules of the Laws of Moses -if we believe in Jesus - but we live now under the New Testament Law of Love, also called the Law of Christ.

TIM: Right!

TINA: But if we live under Grace and not under the Law, does that mean that we can do anything we want –even if it's wrong- and it would still be right in God's eyes?

TIM: No at all! Because we are under a much greater Law! The Law of Christ, which is much greater than the old laws!

TINA: But some people say that if we are not under the Laws of Moses, we would do what's wrong any time we wish and not be punished.

TIM: That's not the case at all! Under Jesus' Law of Love we have a greater commitment!

TINA: So what is the main difference between the Old Testament Law of Moses and the New Testament Law of Christ?

TIM: Jesus' Law of Love is much greater than the Law of Moses!

Law is based on Justice and Retribution

TINA: In which ways?

TIM: Jesus taught us to love and to forgive, even our enemies.

TINA: And didn't Moses' Law teach to forgive?

TIM: Law is usually not about forgiveness but about justice, punishment and retribution! Most laws teach that if you break the law, you should be punished by the law, and you should pay for the wrongs you have done!

TINA: I see... so Moses' Law was like other laws, in that as long as it's enforced it is both a deterrent against crime, and is a means of retribution to wrongdoers.

TIM: Yes, and if it is enforced it's also a protection to those that uphold the law!

TINA: Then why did God replace the law with His grace?

The Law is Just, but we aren't!

TIM: The Law of Moses was just, but the problem was that no one could keep the law. We were all going to be punished if we were judged according to the Law! In other words, the Law was just but we aren't just.

TINA: Why did God have to replace the Law with mercy? Wasn't there any mercy in Moses' Law?

TIM: Mercy and forgiveness were also taught in the Old Testament. However, it was mainly taught regarding God's mercy towards His own people, although God showed an extraordinary patience with all other people. An example of mercy from the Lord to His children -as we already discussed- is King David, who often asked the Lord to forgive him and the Lord did!

TINA: But what about showing mercy toward others?

TIM: The Law also taught about forgiving your brother or your neighbor.

TINA: What about forgiving enemies?

TIM: Generally speaking, enemies were not forgiven.

TINA: So the Law taught to have mercy on neighbors, but not on enemies?

TIM: The Law taught to hate enemies.

TINA: To hate them?!

TIM: Yes.

To love and forgive our Enemies

TINA: But Jesus taught to forgive those that ask for mercy and forgiveness, isn't it, even if they're our enemies?

TIM: Yes... And even more than that! I like to quote Jesus' own words. He was trying to explain to the people of Israel the difference between the teachings of the Law of Moses and their traditions in contrast to God's Law of Love, the New Testament: "You have heard that it had been said, 'You shall love your neighbor, and hate your enemy. But I (Jesus) say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you" (Matthew 5: 43 and 44).

TINA: He said to forgive our enemies... even those that hate us, and curse us and persecute us. He didn't say 'if they ask for forgiveness', but to do it as they continue to hate us.

TIM: Yes! That goes much further even than just forgiving the people that asks for mercy.

TINA: He was asking us to have a love that is supernatural and not human.

TIM: Yes.

TINA: We -humans- don't have that kind of love so He was clearly asking us to have God's love in our lives.

TIM: He said that we should love like that; so that we "... may be the children of our Father which is in heaven: for he makes his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sends rain on the just and on the unjust" (Matthew 5: 45).

Did Jesus and Moses teach opposite Things?

TINA: In this point, the Law of Moses and God's Law of Love are almost completely opposite: one says to hate our enemies and the other to love them!

TIM: Yes. The Laws of Moses taught "... An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth: (Exodus 21: 23 to 25) But I (Jesus) say unto you... whosoever shall smite you on your right cheek, turn to him the other also" (Mathew 5: 38 to 39).

TINA: What does it mean exactly 'an eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth'?

TIM: According to the Law of Moses, if someone hurt you -broke your tooth or damaged your eye- you had the right to break their tooth or damage their eye.

Forgive us our Debts!

TINA: So, the Law of Moses taught retribution and that if someone hurt you in any way, that you had the right to hurt them back in the same way, but Jesus taught to forgive and to have mercy.

TIM: Yes, even to offer the other cheek to someone who hit you in one cheek! Jesus teaching about Love are different –in many cases are the opposite- and in every case much greater than the Law.

TINA: Wow! "...forgive us our debts, as we forgive our debtors" (Matthew 6: 12). The New Testament it's based on forgiveness!

TIM: Yes. As mentioned, the Law taught retribution: an eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth; but Jesus' Law of Love taught forgiveness and living a life of love.

Jesus didn't hit back

TINA: And we can't practice both really! It is either one or the other! We either hit back or we forgive, isn't it?

TIM: Right! Jesus forgave all our sins without hitting back, and He asks us to forgive others that sin against us. That's the Law of Love! We mentioned this before.

TINA: Yea, we did. I have a question though... are you sure that no one could keep the Law?

TIM: People were able perhaps to keep some regulations and some rules, but no one became completely righteous trying to keep the Law. We discussed this before... that's why the Bible teaches that our righteousness is by faith, and not by the Law.

TINA: Where does it say in the New Testament, that righteousness is by faith and not by the Law of Moses?

TIM: Paul wrote: "For the promise to Abraham and to his seed, that he should be the heir of the world was not through the law, but through the righteousness of faith" (Romans 4: 13).

TINA: But are you completely sure that NO ONE ever kept the Law?

A reality Check

TIM: In Jesus' day, many of the religious leaders claimed that they were righteous and that they kept the Law. Jesus -however- was trying to show them that no one could keep the totality of the Law.

TINA: What was the purpose of Jesus showing them that? Why was He trying to show them that they couldn't keep the Law? Was He trying to get them to believe in Him instead of Moses? Was His goal that people would change their religion to His?

TIM: Jesus didn't want for people to merely change their religion, He wanted for them to change their hearts. And He was trying to show them that as they couldn't keep the whole Law, they would also need to be forgiven. He was trying to teach them to forgive also, as they would want to be forgiven.

TINA: I see. Jesus was giving them –and us- a sort of reality check, and showing the truth that we are not that good and that in the end we will also need to be forgiven.

According to Jesus, some Commandments are impossible to keep

TIM: Yes, right! He said, "Blessed are the merciful: for they shall obtain mercy" (Matthew 5: 7). And –as you said- He wasn't telling this only to the people of Israel, but to each one of us. No one can be saved by trying to keep the Law. Jesus also said: "You have heard that it was said by them of old time (by Moses in the Law), You shall not commit adultery: But I say unto you, That whoever looks on a woman to lust after her had committed adultery with her already in his heart" (Matthew 5: 27).

TINA: Practically speaking, that means that it's impossible for a man to keep that rule?

TIM: Yes.

TINA: And where in the Law says that people should not commit adultery?

TIM: That is one of the Ten Commandments. They are found in the book of Exodus and in the book of Deuteronomy -the books of the Old Testament were the Law is written (Exodus 20: 14 and Deuteronomy 5: 18).

TINA: So according to what Jesus said it's almost impossible –or just impossible- to keep at least one of the Ten Commandments.

TIM: Yes. Then Jesus added: "You have heard that it was said of them of old time, 'You shall not kill; (another one of the Ten Commandments) and whoever shall kill shall be in danger of the judgment'. But I say unto you, That whoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whoever shall say to his brother, Raca (Worthless), shall be in danger of the council: but whoever shall say, You fool, shall be in danger of hell fire" (Matthew 5: 21 and 22).

TINA: That one also seems almost impossible –or completely impossible- to keep... who had never been upset with his brother or friend?

TIM: Right... and Jesus used just those two samples to show the people that no one could be good enough or perfect enough to deserve salvation and that no one could keep the Law.

Did the Law teach Mercy? And why did the Law demand Sacrifices if apparently they don't please God?

TINA: You say before that the Law taught mercy from God towards His people.

TIM: Basically, the Law taught punishment and retribution to those that broke the Law, as well as blessings for those who tried to keep the Law. You could read Deuteronomy chapter 28, when you have a chance, to see the blessings and the curses God promised to the people of Israel, based on whether they obeyed or disobeyed the Law.

TINA: So how was God's mercy shown towards His people in the Old Testament Law?

TIM: The Law taught retribution: an eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth, but then according to the Law, people could offer sacrifices to the Lord and ask God for forgiveness for breaking the Law.

TINA: So, according to the Law people could ask God for forgiveness?

TIM: Yes. If people broke the Law, they were supposed to be punished for it, but if they asked God for forgiveness -and received His forgiveness- they could escape the punishment they deserved, or at least part of it. Under the Law, generally speaking, to receive God's forgiveness, a sacrifice had to be offered.

TINA: But didn't you say before that God doesn't want sacrifices? Didn't we read scriptures that said that what the Lord wants is that we change in our hearts? And to ask for forgiveness and then that we forgive others? Didn't Jesus tell the Pharisees, "... go and learn what that means, I will have mercy, and not sacrifice: for I am not come to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance"? (Matthew 9: 13).

TIM: Yes, but under the Old Testament Law still there were animal sacrifices given to God for atonement and forgiveness.

TINA: Why? Isn't that a contradiction? The Law demanded sacrifices but then Jesus and the prophets before Him said that God doesn't delight in those sacrifices?

The Lamb of Sacrifice was a Symbol of Jesus

TIM: No, there is no contradiction. The sacrifices the Law demanded were symbols of what Jesus was going to do. The sacrifices clearly illustrated that a lamb was going to be killed for our sins. The lamb was a symbol of Jesus.

TINA: I get it, but that didn't mean that we could do whatever evil we wanted to and then go and just kill a lamb and feel that we were forgiven, without having changed our hearts and without any intention to change either, right?

TIM: Completely right. You said it very clearly and concisely. God used the sacrifices to illustrate what the Savior, the Lamb of God, was going to do: give His life to pay for our sins. However, God disliked it when people did evil things purposely, and then went and offered sacrifices to pretend that they were so sorry or so righteous. That's why David said that: "For you don't desire sacrifice; else would I give it: you don't delight in burnt offering. The sacrifices of God are a broken spirit: a broken and a contrite heart, O God, You will not despise" (Psalms 51: 16 and 17).

TINA: So, the Law also taught that God is merciful and offering sacrifices was a way of obtaining mercy for ones' sins, if we were sorry?

A Way of Atonement

TIM: Yes. It's called 'atonement'. One of the main festivals in the Old Testament was about atonement and asking for forgiveness and offering an animal sacrifice to God.

TINA: Was that the festival of the Passover?

TIM: No. There were two main festivals, in which they offered sacrifices. One was the Passover and there was a different festival called 'The Day of Atonement'. They also call this festival Yom Kippur. In the Day of Atonement, only the high Priest offered an animal sacrifice, for himself and for the people. Hebrews 9: 7 to 28 refers to the offering of animal sacrifices and it compares it to Jesus' sacrifice for us.

The Lamb and Scapegoat of God

TINA: So, they killed a lamb as a sacrifice?

TIM: In Yom Kippur they offered actually two goats. The high priest laid his hands on one of those goats, and 'passed' his sins and the sins of the people to the goat. Then, the goat was left free in the wilderness -outside the city- thus the sins of the people were taken away from them. This goat was called the scapegoat (Leviticus 16: 7 to 26). The second goat was killed and offered as a sacrifice.

TINA: In the Passover everybody offered a sacrifice, isn't it?

TIM: Yes. In the Passover, every household and family offered -usually- a lamb as a sacrifice. The killing of a lamb in the Passover was also a symbol of what Jesus was going to do once and forever: to take away the sins of the people and to die for us.

TINA: You mentioned before what John the Baptist said: "...Behold the Lamb of God, which takes away the sin of the world" (John 1: 29). And he was talking about Jesus, who was going to be crucified on the Passover; the Lamb of God sacrificed for our sins!

TIM: Yes! Unwittingly the Jewish High Priest and the elders of Israel demanded that Jesus be crucified at the time of the Passover festival, when every household was supposed to sacrifice a lamb without blemish or fault.

TINA: So, Jesus was the final atonement God offered for our sins, so that we could be forgiven, right? After that, we don't need to offer any more sacrifices.

TIM: Right, and as long as we accept and receive Jesus' atonement for our sins. In other words, Jesus paid for our sins with His own life and blood... but it is our choice to accept it or not. If we don't receive Jesus' atonement then the debt remains and we still have to pay it ourselves.

TINA: So, Jesus died for all of us, but only those who accept His forgiveness are forgiven?

TIM: Correct! If you are offered a gift but you decline receiving it, then you don't have the gift!

Did Jesus expect us to fulfill the Law, as He did?

TINA: And you said before –when we talked about salvation- that you were going to explain more about why it was necessary for Jesus to fulfill the Law, remember?

TIM: Yea... Jesus had to fulfill the law for us, because we couldn't! If we could have fulfilled the Law, then we could have saved ourselves! But the Bible says that we can only be saved by grace, by God forgiving us!

TINA: I know that! And why did Jesus come not to destroy the law but to fulfill it? To show us what we should do? (Matthew 5: 17). Was His intention that after we saw how He fulfilled the Law that we could follow in His steps and fulfilled it also?

TIM: No... we couldn't keep the Law and we can't keep the Law; we all broke the Law! He didn't come to show us that we should keep the Law. He knew we couldn't keep it. He came to show us that God loves and wants to forgive us and also that we should love and forgive one another!

TINA: So there are some things that He did that we can't do, such as fulfilling the law!

TIM: Yes.

TINA: But there is one thing that we could do, and that is to forgive and to love others, as He loves and forgives us.

TIM: Right! And to forgive is greater and more blessed than keeping any rules or commandments. We mentioned before that Jesus said: "Blessed are the merciful: for they shall obtain mercy" (Matthew 5: 7).

TINA: He didn't say 'blessed are those that keep the rules or the law', but said blessed are the merciful, the peacemakers, and the meek.

Jesus fulfilled the Law to be able and free to die for us

TIM: Good point!

TINA: Then, why did Jesus have to fulfill the Law?

TIM: If He hadn't fulfilled the Law, He couldn't have died for us, because He would have had to die for His own sins!

TINA: Oh! Do you mean to say that He needed to fulfill the Law and be blameless so that He didn't have to die for Himself and then He could die for us?

TIM: Right! Jesus was perfect so that He didn't have to die. He could have gone straight back to Heaven without dying because he was without sin, but then He still chose to die for us! God had to send His own Son, because none could keep the Law and then be entitled to die for our sins. There has never been a human being that could die to pay for the sins of others.

TINA: In order for Him to pay our debts with His life, He had to be without debt, without sin! Otherwise He wouldn't have had a life to give for us!

TIM: Exactly!

TINA: Because none of us could keep the law, neither could we be good enough to deserve going to Heaven. He paid for us.

TIM: Right! Jesus said, "Did not Moses give you the law, and yet none of you keeps the law?" (John 7: 19).

TINA: So, that's why Jesus had to fulfill the Law so that He didn't have to die for His own sins and then He could die for our sins.

TIM: You got it!

TINA: Now I see it clearly! Why couldn't I see it clearly before and why other people don't see this clearly either?

TIM: Well, some people understand this, but then others don't!

How to understand God's Word

TINA: And what could we do to understand the word of God clearly and not to be confused about it?

TIM: If we study Jesus' words faithfully and really want to know the truth, the Spirit will guide us to the truth! Those are two of Jesus' promises.

TINA: And talking about studying the word... you also mentioned what Paul said, that we have to study and read the scriptures prayerfully and divide rightly the Word of Truth (2 Timothy 2: 15).

TIM: Yes. And as we do that, the Holy Spirit –which is the Spirit of Truth-, will guide us to all the truth, as Jesus promised (John 16: 13).

TINA: We discussed that a couple of times already!

TIM: Yes! We have discussed so many different subjects since we started talking about the Holy Spirit! We talked a lot about the scriptures and the records of the Bible...

TINA: Yes, but it seems that it was necessary in order to understand the subject fully! If we don't understand rightly some of those passages in the New Testament, we would be misled.

Paul was a great Man of God, but still a Man

TIM: I want to clarify that when I mentioned some mistakes that Paul had made, I didn't say this to speak against Paul, nor to cast doubts on his writings, but to state a true fact. Paul was a great man of God and a great apostle, but he was still a man.

TINA: I know you really admire Paul, and continually quote his teachings, so I understand that you were not saying that just to criticize him, but to explain something about God's word.

TIM: All the other heroes of the Bible made their mistakes also: Abraham, Jacob, Moses, David, and all the rest of them; both in the Old and in the New Testament and believers ever since.

TINA: Because no one is perfect.

TIM: Right, we are all imperfect and none is good. Only God is good.

TINA: So what would you say was Paul's main mistake?

TIM: One of Paul's mistakes was –once in a while- to revert to the legalism of the Law, although at the same time and for the most part he rightly taught that we are saved not by keeping the Laws of Moses, but by God's grace.

TINA: Any other mistakes he might have done?

TIM: Another thing, as we discussed already, was that sometimes he considered or treated women as spiritually inferior to men.

TINA: Did he do that often?

TIM: Sometimes, while other times, like with Priscilla or Phoebe he gave them a lot of recognition and praise (Romans 16:1 to 5).

TINA: How could we understand then what is right and what is wrong, if sometimes the Bible shows also the mistakes of its 'heroes'? When we read, how could we tell the difference between the times they were right and the few times they were wrong? In addition, how can we understand the difference between the many times Paul is right and the few when he may have been wrong or leaning to the Law?

Sometimes the Bible Heroes' Mistakes were obvious

TIM: There are not so many 'mistakes' or seeming contradictions that are hard to detect, because usually the majority of the scriptures point in one direction, while the 'mistakes' go clearly in the other direction. The mistakes are usually clearly seen.

TINA: Every time?

TIM: Sometimes, mistakes are more obvious. Almost anyone could tell that it was wrong for David to kill his own officer and to have taken away the officer's wife, even if David was the king. But there are other cases where it may be more difficult to understand whether what happened was right or wrong.

TINA: Like when Paul said that women couldn't prophesy?

TIM: Yes, that could be an example.

Closing Remarks

TINA: If you propose that it is not necessary to have temples made with human hands, no sacrifices, no laws to keep, such attending mass or not doing this or that, do you think you are proposing a type of new religion?

TIM: No religion whatsoever! These words are inspired in the Words of Jesus in the gospels. What people do with them is their own business!

TINA: Do you think other Christians will receive or reject these words? Do you think some people would attack you or accuse you of attacking their Christian groups and doctrines and of trying to divide them?

TIM: The words in this book are not meant to accuse members of Christian groups or denominations.

TINA: So the things you said are not meant to just accuse others of being wrong?

TIM: No. Even if some people are wrong, we should forgive them, as we want to be forgiven. We couldn't plead forgiveness for ourselves while at the same time pleading for judgment for those we dislike or those we have disagreements with.

TINA: Then, what's the main reason why you said those things?

TIM: I had to say some of those things -as a matter of conscience- about the faults of religious people or against some of the religious traditions in order to set the record straight that those things are not what Scripture teaches. I didn't do it to judge or attack others, but to bring out what Jesus taught. In any case, I am not the judge! The Lord's words are! It is not my job to judge anybody.

I am no Saint -but you already knew that!

TINA: The Lord is the Judge!

TIM: Right! I have simply voiced some of the objections many people have about institutionalized Christianity and then I have tried to show the difference between some of those religious practices and what Jesus taught.

TINA: What do you say about yourself?

TIM: I am just someone that loves Jesus and His words. In these pages we have discussed how only Jesus' words are infallible and that even His most ardent followers and disciples were not without fault.

TINA: Are you then one of those ardent followers? Why do you love Him so much?

TIM: I love Jesus' words, mostly out of gratitude for His great mercy and love towards me. I am no saint –but you already knew that! In fact, I am one scarcely saved by His grace, as the apostle Peter wrote (1 Peter 4: 18).

TINA: What you mean is that you would have never been saved except Jesus saved you, right?

TIM: Right!

TINA: But there is a lot of wisdom in your words.

TIM: Any wisdom in them comes from the words of Jesus, and not from me. So, please dear reader, don't get all upset if I got it wrong in some points, or if you don't agree with some of my ideas! I am a man only.

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Full Index, chapters and sections

Chapter 1 — The Original Blessings

Jesus readily forgave People that the Religious People had condemned

Sex: the original Blessing

"God blessed Noah, saying: Be fruitful... and fill the Earth"

Through Noah, God gave Mankind a second Chance

The Lord would never punish the Innocent!

The Lord saved Lot when Sodom was destroyed

God limited Man's Ability to do Evil by shortening Man's Lifespan at the Time of the Flood

"Let little Children come unto Me"

The Meek

Humans' Lifespan was shortened for the first Time in the Garden of Eden

Life is a Gift

While many Sinners receive Eternal Life, many of the 'Righteous' Religious People refuse it. Why?

Some Ways in which we are like God

Putting the Pieces together

God the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit present at Creation

There is nothing wrong with Sex the wonderful Way God intended it

After eating of the Fruit of the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil Adam and Eve's Minds and Spirits changed and they believed Lies instead of the Truth

The first Attack of the Devil was on Sex and having Children, but his aim was to destroy Humankind

Chapter 2 — God Is Right There... Wherever You Are

Spirit

Jews and Samaritans

Where to worship God?

God is right there... wherever You are

"Before they call, I will answer"

God's Temple

The Fate of a Prophet

Religion without Love is an Abomination to God

Jesus' Disciples didn't have any Church Building

"...To this Man will I look... him that is... of a contrite Spirit..."

"You are the Man!"

God doesn't delight in Sacrifices, but wants our Hearts

The Believers are the Church

The Ecclesia

Temples made by People come and go

Believers are the Living Stones of God's spiritual House

Chapter 3 — The XX & XY

Wouldn't there be something missing?

God the Father and the Son are definitely Male Personalities

Is God a Trinity of Bachelors?

Male Chauvinism?

"There is no Male, nor Female in Jesus"

Is Heaven asexual? Straight Talk! The true Sayings of God!

Spiritually, neither Males nor Females are inferior to the other

The Lord looks at the Heart

God pours His Spirit on Men and Women

In Jesus' Eyes Men and Women are not spiritually different

The two become One

Chapter 4 — Does The Bible Contradict Itself?

Why Paul didn't allow Women to prophesy?

Does the Bible contradict Itself?

Did Paul contradict himself?

No Difference based on our outward Appearance

By not allowing Women to exercise their Rights and Freedom in the Spirit, Paul abandoned Truth and Grace to revert to the Law

The religious Law binds but the Spirit makes us free

The Bible simply records the Truth of what happened

Paul was a religious Extremist

Scripture shows Paul as he was, no Embellishment

Scripture is a true Witness

Paul didn't claim that everything he wrote was inspired by God

"We have no such Custom" (1 Corinthians 11: 16)

"Stand firm in the Liberty with which Christ has made us free" (Galatians 5: 1)

"The glorious Liberty of God's Children" (Romans 8: 21)

Our Freedom is only bound by God's Love

Chapter 5 — The Good, The Bad And The Ugly

'Good' People who sinned 'badly'

Why we talk about the Bible Heroes' big Mistakes

We are talking about serious Sins, even Crimes

Some defend their Heroes' 'Perfection' even against the Bible's Record

According to Jesus no one is good, not even the most outstanding of His Followers

"Except you be converted, and become as little children, you shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven" (Matthew 18: 3)

Scripture doesn't try to protect the Reputation of its Heroes

King David's Sins...

...And God's Mercy

God's unconventional Ways and Choices

Lessons David learned from his Failures and Sins

David did the opposite of what he had been bragging about

Solomon had great Wisdom... but in the End became a great Fool

Love is greater than Wisdom

God spoke through Peter...

...Then Satan spoke through Peter

Imperfect Heroes who loved God

Peter denied three Times that he knew Jesus, mere Hours after saying that he was willing to die for the Lord

The Spirit takes away Fear

Even the Bible Heroes were neither good nor perfect, but they loved the Lord and trusted in His Mercy

The Book of Truth

Chapter 6 — Man Wasn't Made For The Law

'Bad' People who did some good Things!

God doesn't lie!

Only Jesus' words and actions are perfect and without Sin

Why some religious Leaders misunderstood Jesus?

"Judge righteous Judgment"

The Law was made for Man, and not Man for the Law

The Law wasn't meant to stop People from loving and helping others

God's Law is the Rule of Love

"Go and learn what this means"

Love fulfills all the Laws

The New Commandment

'New Testament' Christians

Some people hold Paul's sayings above Jesus' Words

Only Jesus' Words are infallible

Jesus' Followers are not infallible

What God does is always right

Paul often confessed that he wasn't good and he was right in doing so

Paul didn't claim to be always right

If Paul meant 'all Christian Women of all Time', he was mistaken

Some Christians still live under Old Testament Laws

Fallen from Grace!

Those that try to justify themselves by keeping even one Law, become Debtors to all the Laws

God's Love frees us from all the Religious Laws

Chapter 7 — New Testament of Love!

Can saved People do whatever they want ... even if it's wrong?

Law is based on Justice and Retribution

The Law is Just, but we aren't!

To love and forgive our Enemies

Did Jesus and Moses teach opposite Things?

Forgive us our Debts!

Jesus didn't hit back

A reality Check

According to Jesus, some Commandments are impossible to keep

Did the Law teach Mercy? And why did the Law demand Sacrifices if apparently they don't please God?

The Lamb of Sacrifice was a Symbol of Jesus

A Way of Atonement

The Lamb and Scapegoat of God

Did Jesus expect us to fulfill the Law, as He did?

Jesus fulfilled the Law to be able and free to die for us

How to understand God's Word

Paul was a great Man of God, but still a Man

Sometimes the Bible Heroes' Mistakes were obvious

Closing Remarks

I am no Saint -but you already knew that!

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About Joseph Torie

Joseph have been writing for a few decades, first as a journalist, then as a freelance travel writer and finally, as a full fledge writer. He offers some of his books about Jesus, about spiritual subjects and about intelligent design FREE to download. His work focus on the words of Jesus and sometimes refer to other portions of Scripture, when needed for reference.

Joseph doesn't belong to or promote any particular religious group, association or church, but sometimes may comment on the views or practices of one of such groups, when discussing the teachings of Jesus. In the cases he commends one such group, it shouldn't be understood as an endorsement of all their doctrines, practices or members, as the author is not qualified to do such thing. In the same way, if he criticizes one such group for some of his doctrines when compared to the words of Jesus, it shouldn't be viewed as a blanket statement regarding the totality of their views, nor of the faith and dedication of their members.

He writes hoping the reader will benefit from the discussions and that you will be encouraged in your own search for truth and meaning in this life and in the next, based on the words of Jesus, the Savior. You may find other articles, blog and stuff in his website, josephtorieauthor-dot-com or by searching online for some of his other publications.

Other titles by Joseph Torie

Jesus Indeed and Eternal Life For The Unsaved

Talk With Jesus (English and Simplified Chinese versions)

Galaxies For Intelligently Designed Minds (Not For Standard Model Dummies)

Connect with Joseph via josephtorieauthor dot com

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