CHAR: All right, this is the 
gender
identity and trans aces live 
stream.
You can add comments or 
questions, using SliDo, which is
in the description box. You can 
also
also chat in the live chat for 
YouTube, but we are not looking
are there for questions, so 
definitely open up
SliDo to ask us questions and 
now we are going to introduce 
ourselves.
I am Char, I am agender and we 
are going to go in
alphabetical order, so Christa. 
CHRISTA: Hi, hi Christa, I use 
she or they, I
am a nonbinary femme, asexual, 
nonbinary because I don't really
care about gender anymore.
I also use femme for most 
intents and purposes I interact
with the world as a woman, I 
still feel a lot of
affinity for woman orientated 
spaces, oh, we lost Zaine.
So that is my gender identity, 
other than that I am also a grad
student, so if I seem tired and 
dead inside it's because I am. 
So that is me, hello!
SASHA: My name is Sasha, I use 
they/them or she/her.
What Christa said also realigns 
with
how I identify, including the 
dead inside grad student.
I like to joke a lot that ifl 
gender
ambivalent in that I don't 
really identify strongly with 
gender as a construct in the 
first place and
I have always been pretty 
uncomfortable being referred
to as girl or a woman, but at 
the same time I don't really 
feel better being identified as 
much else.
So, nonbinary is generally the 
safest term that I use, but I
think as with most people, 
gender is constantly an evolving
construct and that can likely 
change.
That is me. 
TARA: I am Tara, I am 
genderfluid and I like to
collect label, so I
have my asexual label, my 
biromantic
label and polyamorous label in 
there.
Probably a label as a geek in 
there and I may also
identify as a cat, I don't know 
if that counts?
But, I use she/her as pronouns, 
I haven't really started
experimenting yet with the they 
pronounces but
I really don't mind what I am 
called
as long as it's not late for 
lunch or food, because I really 
like food.
That is pretty much myself 
there. 
CHAR: Okay, now, Zaine. 
ZAINE: Hello.
Sorry I keep popping in and out,
Streamyard kind of kicked me 
out, the not a good
intro, but hi, I am Zaine, I am 
nonbinary,
I tend to go with the nonbinary 
label because I am still trying 
to figure out what exactly my 
gender is.
Sometimes I am like, oh, wait, I
am agender, but other days I am 
like I am genderfluid.
So just, I know I am not cis, 
that is about it.
And yes, I am just excited to 
chat with you
all. 
CHAR: All right, so I don't know
if we have any SliDo questions
yet, but let's start with just a
general
one of what was your process in 
figuring out your gender, when 
did that happen?
How are you feeling about it 
right now and we will do, we 
will
keep doing it Alf betical, so 
Christa. 
CHRISTA: Okay, so my gender was 
a
bit of process.
I kind of figured out the 
asexual bit helped a lot.
Because I feel the same lack of 
attraction to all genders really
made me question my own gender.
I was thinking if it doesn't 
matter who I am with then does 
it matter who I am as well sort 
of thing.
It also, because I just
feel very ambivalent towards 
gender e
I don't really care what I 
identify as and
I don't feel strongly about not 
having a gender, so I am not 
really agender.
It took me a while to parse that
out and
figure out oh, hey, I think I 
just
feel most comfortable using a 
nonbinary label and
sort of being able to claim that
as something I want to use for 
myself and get comfortable with 
that.
That also look a while, because 
for ages I
felt like queer imposter 
syndrome.
I felt I don't feel like I am 
nonbinary enough
for this to count, but since 
very clearly I am not
cis, I eventually got more 
comfortable with using that and 
that is kind of
where I am at today. 
SASHA: Sorry! 
CHAR: Again, I think, Christa. 
SASHA: Again, I think what 
Christa says relates to my 
experience as well.
I think growing up I never 
really felt particularly 
comfortable
being referred to as a girl, but
I also knew I wasn't a boy,
because that was sort of the 
only conceptualisation I
had of gender, you could either 
be a boy or girl, that was all I
knew.
I figured maybe I am just
a Tom boy and I like my 
brother's hand downs.
It wasn't until I identified as 
asexual that I started to
consider that hang on, maybe 
there is more
to my idea of gender, in that if
I
don't experience sexual 
attraction to other genders 
maybe there is something about
that gender thing that applies 
to me in a way I hadn't thought 
about.
So, again, I sort of use 
nonbinary just
because for me it's a bit of a 
catch
all for all of the questions 
that I still have
and I hope that I will be able 
to get a better
understanding of that in the 
future, but again, time will 
tell. 
CHAR: Tara. 
TARA: So for me, that kind of 
whole gender identity has been a
long road.
My first coming out was really 
as a bisexual
because I am like I like
everyone equally not as much, so
it's got to be that, because I 
like everyone, not really.
I went with that for years 
because I was just like this 
kind
of fits, I was also kind
of a Tom boy, I didn't like the 
fact that my aunt
decided that she wanted to get 
me dollies
and prams and a pram was only 
good for pushing
the cat around because the dolly
got pushed out and
the cat didn't care, so you put 
the cat in the trolley and have 
fun.
I must just be
a Tom boy, I never felt like I 
was a girl or a boy, but I 
didn't have that way to describe
it.
I kind of discovered
asexuality and genderfluid 
pretty much at the same time.
I thought oh, there is a word 
for this, I don't feel like I am
nonbinary
enough and ace enough, but that 
kind of gave me the road to 
start looking
into it and thinking, actually 
there
is no enough, that feels like 
that fits for
me, because 99% of the time I am
kind of
in between and that 0.
5%, I am definitely female and 
that other 0.5% I am definitely 
male. That can happen in a day.
I can be male, middle, female,
male, middle, female, it just 
happens like that. The like 
water.
But it's really helped having 
that
identity to sort of work on and 
go
yeah, that is, this is actually 
okay now, I can
start really understanding 
myself a bit better. 
CHAR: Zaine. 
ZAINE: Yes, so for me gender is 
a bit
of a weird idea, because when I 
was really
little, around six or eight, I 
can never
remember, I thought gender was 
something you chose, so I
didn't really understand, I was 
like okay, society has
a concept of gender, I was like,
okay,
someone, you just wake up and 
you are like ah, yes, this is 
what I feel like.
I am afab, I never had an issue 
being
perceived as girl, because I was
like, yay, skirts and dresses 
are frilly and nice and fun.
I remember growing up a little 
and
going wait, hang on, was I 
really dense, okay, so there is 
two genders.
Then I remember growing up even 
more and I was like wait, no, 
little toddler me had it right.
Gender can be whatever you want 
it to be, so I was like, 
interesting, interesting.
So what is my gender?
I don't think I still have an 
answer to that, like I know I am
not
cis and I know I don't align 
with one specific
gender, so I am like am I in 
between, am I something
else entirely, am I both, am I 
neither?  It's kind of a 
constant thing.
Like I said, the something that 
I have still been trying
to figure out, because when I 
had my
gender realisation I was like, 
no, this
is too much thinking, I am going
to put this on hold for
like five
years and then events happened 
and I had like a lot
of transphobia at home and I 
thought I need to address this
now because this is affecting me
in a real intense
way, so I was like, okay, I know
I am trans, I
know I am somewhere in the 
nonbinary
umbrella, but I will figure that
out as I go along.
I am still waiting for that to 
catch up with
me. 
CHAR: Okay, we have a question 
from SliDo, I am going to add it
as a banner.
Do you feel pressured to align 
your gender presentation
with your gender identity and 
how do you negotiate that?  
Christa. 
CHRISTA: Yes, so what I was 
saying earlier about feeling 
this
like queer imposter syndrome, a 
lot of that had to do
with my gender presentation, 
because I feel like it's a 
pretty big
scenario type that nonbinary 
look very
androgynoeus.
I don't look like that, I look 
like a woman.
I am not nonbinary in that sort 
of sense and
honestly the way I negotiate 
that is just trying
to more comfortable with 
presenting how I want to present
and however that means for me.
So, a lot of this had to
do with my hair, so a while back
I
cut off all my hair and I had 
very short
hair, similar to what other 
people on the panel had, but
I really missed being able to 
grow it out and wear it in a
ponytail and donating my hair 
was something I did a lot 
growing up,
so the way that has just 
negotiated itself
in my life is I grow it out and 
I cut
it off impulsively and donate it
and I swap back and
forth from the two, that is what
makes me happy.
So sometimes I will look nor
androgygoneous.
It makes me more comfortable in 
my own skin and I
am trying to get more 
comfortable in that basically. 
CHAR: Sasha. 
SASHA: Yes, I think lockdown has
been a really
interesting time.
Because before lockdown, I was 
sort of
in an environment
where, I mean not that it really
matters how I present
myself to, it's not really that 
big of an issue to
anyone other than me, but I 
definitely felt a pressure to 
blend in
and not be too conspicuous, so
I would often just dress in a 
way
that was very
femme or at least, people 
wouldn't look twice and think, 
who, what?
But in other contexts
like inexplicitly queer context 
I would feel the
urge to play up a bit more cis
play and androgyeny and it was 
really stressful for me.
In lockdown I have been more 
comfortable wearing what I felt
like and looking how I wanted to
and that might be something
I take forward with me and I 
hope that I
cannot feel like I have to 
justify my identity through my
presentation, I can just sort of
be
me. 
CHAR: Tara. 
TARA: So this has been a 
long-standing question for me.
I grew up on a sort of small 
farm and
when I are working on a farm, 
you wear
clothes that get dirty, it 
doesn't matter what they are, 
you
go out in a pair of
dungarees and your dad's boots, 
so it was never really a
thing like you had to be wear 
these kinds of dresses
so I kind of grew up feeling 
comfortable with that and
thinking you know, combat 
trousers feel really comfortable
actually.
Then I kind of calm out of 
school and I was like I
really should wear skirts and 
stuff because that is what girls
wear and I
am a girl, so I have to look 
like a girl.
It didn't feel comfortable all 
the time, but I was like, this 
must be how every girl feels 
like.
It was probably last year that I
really
started, like I said, exploring,
I have known a bit
more about genderfluidity and 
myself the last couple of years.
Last year I went to join a live 
action role
play that I have got back into 
doing, because I haven't done 
that for a few years.
There was a kind of a moment 
where I
felt so kind of empowered of
just like I am a guy, but 
actually everyone can see I am a
girl, but that doesn't bother 
me.
I was just wearing a simple vest
top and some combats and boots
and I changed the way I
moved and I was like, okay, so 
clothing can be important, but
also changing the way you move 
and I started to really
explore that, so if I am having 
a guy kind of day, I
just go and I sink down into my 
knees.
If I am having a girl sort of 
day I will bring myself up a bit
more
and it just changes the way I 
talk. That is one of the ways I 
align.
Obviously going to work I feel 
like I had to be presenting as a
woman
because I work in an office, you
have to wear skirts
and stuff it was at that point 
that last year I did a similar 
thing. I had hair so long I 
could sit on it. Someone said to
me why don't you change your 
image a little bit.
I was like, okay, yeah, I can do
that.
I took it to here in one cut
and my hair dresser was like, 
are you sure?  The sheer panic 
on their face.
I was like, yeah, absolutely. 
Best thing I ever did.
I can curl it and that is how I
negotiate the sort of 
presentations because I have 
stopped
caring that a woman who is 
cross-dressing
as a guy or a girl, I have had 
that said as well, it
was like, cool, if that is what 
you want to think, but I feel
comfortable today because I am 
wearing a T-shirt and some black
jeans and I
can go to work like that and my 
boss is fine with it.
It's just a lot easier
to negotiate, almost that
realisation like you were 
saying, I can wear what I want, 
they are my clothes, definitely.
There is still that nagging 
pressure in the background,
because I am assigned female at 
birth and I am just expected
to do these sorts of things like
make
up, which I have never really 
been into. 
CHAR: Zaine. 
ZAINE: Yes, I think I have a lot
of the same problems as you guys
mentioned.
Hair specifically, I think it's 
something that
really ties into how we present 
ourselves and how we perceive 
ourselves.
So a lot of people do assume 
that nonbinary
people would have like short 
haircuts or
pixie cuts because it's more
androgynous.
It's something I have a 
love/hate relationship with. I 
would
look at pictures of me with 
short hair and I am like I miss 
my short hair.
The instant I get it cut off I
wanting long hair so I can braid
it and look nice and pretty. 
It's something I have been 
struggling with a lot.
What I
recently did was I kind of got a
full undercut,
because I was just chatting to a
friend and they suggested
that an undercut would be a good
idea, there is something very 
gender ambiguous about it. 
Weirdly enough it worked.
Like, on the days where I am 
like I need people to
understand that I am not a girl,
I would just put my hair
up or like braid it back so you 
can see
my undercut, like something that
clearly
says no, not what you think.
I think
that in self is also a problem, 
because undercuts can't be 
something
that is nonbinary or masculine, 
because girls can have it too.
It's something that makes me 
feel at peace with myself.
In terms of gender presentation,
I do experience a lot of stress 
and a lot of pressure,
especially when I dress more 
femininely
like I am right now, because 
people just
look at me and they are like oh,
you are wearing
something that shows off your 
cleavage
or your legs like a skirt or a 
corset, it
used to really bother me, but I 
think
I have got to the point beyond 
anxiety and just gone into
anger because I don't think 
clothes have gender.
Specifically with like
corsets and bras and things like
that, I feel like
it's so gendered that it just
infuriates me because,
excuse the language, but kids 
have
no gender, I don't know how many
times I am going to have to
say it, but I am going to do it,
because there is this 
expectation on
a-fab nonbinary people where you
have to
bind or have a flat chess and 
present as nonbinary, otherwise 
people dismiss you.
Just repeat after me, tits have 
no gender, we have to accept 
that.
That is how I deal with it,
anger. 
CHAR: I don't really feel an 
external pressure to align my 
expression and identity.
It's been more an internal 
pressure once I was
very late to the game, realising
that I was a
nonbinary and then there was a 
pandemic, so I have done things 
like
stopping wears bras and 
adjusting may wardrobe so I 
could get away with that 
appropriately.
I did the undercuts but these 
changes made me
feel happy, but I still have 
this feminine shell that makes
people not question my gender or
give me too much
attention in this kind of 
processing egg
phase I am in.
I think I have gotten a lot of 
support
in LGBT spaces that I don't feel
even pressured from
other queer people to present as
queerer, so that has been 
positive.
I was definitely anxious about 
identifying myself in queer
spaces, but so far it's been 
very good.
So we are going to move to the 
next question.
Have you struggled with mental 
health professionals
dismissing your asexuality, if 
this
hasn't happened to you you can 
say pass. We will start with 
Christa. 
CHRISTA: It hasn't been 
something I have struggled with,
probably because when I was
looking for a mental health 
professional to talk to I went
to a specifically
queer orientated
group of mental health 
professionals, so they have 
always
been super understanding of 
being trans and being ace.
So basically try and find 
someone who is
queer and gets that sort of 
space, because I know it comes 
up a
lot, even if I am not talking 
specifically about queer
issues, it's something that I 
really want whoever I am talking
to, to understand.
So that is the best advice I 
have. 
CHAR: Sasha. 
SASHA: I think until quite 
recently, I didn't
disclose to mental health 
profession ands that I 
identified as either asexual or
nonbinary, just because I didn't
feel like having to justify 
that.
When you are talking to a mental
health professional,
usually you are already in a 
vulnerable place and to have to 
defend
a fundamental part of yourself, 
please God, no, I can't!
So, and I think in retrospect, I
think that really did a lot more
harm than good, because what
ends up happening is you 
compartmentalise parts of 
yourself.
At least for me, I had a 
fractured sense of who I
was.
I could only tap into this part 
of me and I don't know this part
of me and I am not going to get 
to know this part of me.
Very recently I started seeing 
someone new who is
much more aware and I
would say they are very ace
competent so to speak, that has 
been a huge difference.
Ultimately I suppose with 
relation to the specific 
question that hasn't
happened to me, but I can 
definitely understand why
people would have anxiety about 
stuff like that. Absolutely. 
CHAR: Tara. 
TARA: This isn't something that 
has happened to me, but I have
put off trying to seek out a 
mental health
professional because of the
recent undertaking because I am 
asexual and genderfluid.
I was going to have a look at 
things I want to address and
work on, now I have this whole 
other thing and I have to look 
for something really specific.
So it is something that I have 
in the back of my mind that is 
going
to be just casually dismissed 
and it probably won't, because
I will find the right person, 
but yeah. 
CHAR: Zaine. 
ZAINE: Okay, I kind of feel bad 
because this has
happened to me on multiple 
occasions sadly.
I have had mental health 
professionals dismiss
both my sexuality and my gender 
in different situations.
I remember I was at the hospital
for
trauma therapy and I was talking
to the psychologist who was 
assessing me and
I just casually mentioned my 
gender and being
nonbinary and unfortunately what
their response was to
ignore like all of the negative 
traumatic
experiences I had gone through 
and just
decide that the only reason I
needed mental health help or 
counselling is
because I had a conflict with my
gender, which obviously was 
really disappointing
because no, that is not what is 
happening
here, this is an identity, even 
if you don't understand or 
respect
it, you can't dismiss my trauma,
because
you think that is what is 
causing it.
I have also had something 
similar happen because of my 
asexuality.
So
I have, contact warning, oh, my
gosh, for assault, I have a 
history of abuse and
assault, so it's something that 
came up in a session once
where a therapist asked me if I 
struggled with sexual
connection or being intimate 
with someone because of my 
history.
I was like, well, not really, 
but also I
don't really experience sexual 
attraction to
begin with, so it's not 
something that would
directly affect my life in a
big way and her response was 
also really
disappointing because she was 
like, oh, there is no such thing
as
asexuality and maybe you are 
just feeling that because you 
have had
negative experiences with abuse 
and assault.
I am like, no, that definitely 
is not it,
don't get me wrong it does put 
me in place where I started 
questioning
myself, oh, my gosh, maybe my 
identity
isn't valid, but the more I 
think about it, the more that
is not what happens because 
asexuality is about the
lack of sexual attraction, not
sexual action, so I feel like 
it's two different
situations and like Sasha said 
being in a
position with a mental health 
professional, you are really
vulnerable and so bringing up 
this part of yourself that you 
know so
much of the world just disagrees
with
is really scary and is really 
terrifying because
what if this person, who is 
supposed to be helping me 
dismisses me.
What do I do then?
And, honestly, if they do do 
that, I
hope to God no one has to go 
through that, but if they do
do that, I would strongly
advise that after the session 
you kind
of just sit down and tell 
yourself that you are valid.
Because, even people who
are mental health professionals,
or even mental health 
professionals will do things
that are hurtful and they might 
not intend
for them to be hurtful, but it's
again
how I guess well-acquainted 
someone is with the different 
concepts.
So it's just always remind 
yourself it's okay, you are 
valid,
your identity is valid,
especially if you have had a 
mental health professional, I 
don't know, dead name
or misgender you, because that 
is something which has happened 
to a lot of my friends
and it's gut-wrenching when that
happens.
So just reaffirm yourself, if 
that ever happens.
Your gender is your, your body 
is yours,
your experiences are yours and 
they are allowed to help you,
but they can't define those
or you, so just, yeah, just have
a big virtual
hug if that ever happens. 
CHAR: Since my experiences 
differ I am
going to interject that I had a 
wonderful experience with a
therapist, as I was starting to 
figure out my gender she really
encouraged me to explore that, 
when my first
reaction was I kind of panicked,
I didn't realise
why it made me so happy, why a 
nonbinary
hair cut made me that happy and
I was not used to that level of 
happiness.
I want to share on the website, 
sexual survivors. Org.
They have a hand out to
give to people to help them 
understand it's not a problem 
that needs to be solved.
All right, thank you, everyone 
for sharing, we are
going to move on to the next 
question.
Are you out as ace in any trans 
groups or communities?
What has that experience been 
like, if you are or if you chose
not to?
We will start with Christa 
again.
CHRISTA: Yes yeah, it's a little
bit complicated.
I can't think of any specific 
moments in trans communitiesy 
was talking about
being asexual, but I am also 
very much not
in the closet about it, it's not
something I am trying to hide, a
lot of times when I
am in trans gender spaces it's
difficult to unpack so I am 
usually talking about that 
rather than asexuality.
But I will say, whenever I am 
talking to like
trans friends on an individual 
person-to-
person level I have always found
trans people very understanding
of the ace experience, because 
there is a lot
of overlap where aces don't feel
welcome in
queer spaces because it's so 
sexualised and a lot
of trans people don't feel 
welcome because often their 
issues get overlooked by the 
queer community and things like 
that.
So I am sorry I don't have a 
better answer to
that question about but there is
a lot of overlap there. 
CHAR: Sasha. 
SASHA: Admittedly I have only 
lived in the UK for a few years 
and I am
not as involved in a lot of the 
communities
as I was when I was back home in
Canada.
That being said, for a long time
because I felt like
I wasn't nonbinary enough and I 
wrestle with that quite a lot.
I didn't want to take up space 
in a lot of those communities 
because I
feel like I didn't have the 
right
other my experience wasn't as 
important or in need of 
exploration, if that makes 
sense.
I think, I mean
in retrospect I don't think I 
had a reason to feel that way, I
am pretty sure if I had been 
more forthcoming people would 
have been supportive.
But I am afraid I can't really 
speak to that more than that I 
am
afraid. 
CHAR: Tara. 
TARA: So, I am in a couple
of trans based communities 
within Scotland.
One specifically where it's more
open discussion.
They have trans sessions they 
run for people as well,
there is like a generalised 
gathering they have on a weekly 
basis and I was going to that.
I kind of disclosed that I am 
ace in,
because it felt like a really 
safe space there and I got a 
really positive
feedback from that and it was
quite a big open discussion 
because the leader of
the group, they are nonbinary 
themselves, so they
kind of had the nonbinary 
aspect, but they didn't
have the knowledge of 
asexuality, so they were like, 
can you, are you happy to share?
It was kind of like, it was very
welcoming to have that 
experience.
On a one-to-one basis with a lot
of my trans friends
within that community and sort 
of wider towards that as
well there is a lot of support,
because, like you said there is 
a great deal of overlap.
A lot of people in both 
communities don't feel welcome 
as part of
the overall queer
community, but there is also 
some overlap as well as
in terms of a lot of trans
people have kind of experiences 
of being ace somewhere on that
spectrum and I find that some, 
quite a number of ace
people do have that kind of
exploration as well, they seem 
to go very well
together, but there is always 
that nervousness
when you are bringing that up to
a new group, you are like
how are they going to take this,
having been bi on pretty
much most of my life I have that
constant I am not welcome here.
So I have managed to have enough
time to get
over that for being bi, so I am 
just like,
well, I would like to be welcome
here.
This is where I would like to 
share my experience and if none 
of
you, except maybe that person 
over there understands and 
learns something then I am 
happy.
It's been a positive experience.
ZAINE: I am out in most of the 
trans communities I am a part 
of.
I don't think it's because I 
made a conscious decision to 
come out to
them, it's more that the people 
who are part of those 
communities and
groups are the ones who kind
of like encouraged me to come 
out as trans and as nonbinary.
So a lot of my really close 
friends who are nonbinary are 
also
asexual, so it's something that
we wondered over and built on.
So, because trans people are the
ones who made
me feel welcome as an ace person
in
the queer community and then
encouraged me to be out and open
about
my gender, it's something that 
kind
of has been a collective 
experience for me.
I do feel like most trans
people are just really kind and 
wholesome and really loving.
Like everyone else said there is
a lot of overlap and they do 
understand
where you are coming from, so, I
don't think
I have ever had a negative 
experience with that. 
CHAR: I am out as ace in the 
trans group I am
in and I didn't intend to
be, but the very first time I 
joined someone used
asexual
to just mean being in a sexual 
rut because
of the pandemic, I positively 
corrected them
and said please don't use an 
identity as a temporary
feeling and then they were very 
nice about it and understanding 
and
corrected themselves, but I am 
really glad I did, because there
is someone
in that group who is on the ace 
spectrum.
So we are going to move on to 
the next question and we have 14
minutes
left, so we do the question.
Are you aas an ace in the trans 
groups or communities...
you can look that up in Annual 
Reports, it also blends in this 
question.
Why do you think ace people are 
more
likely to identify as nonbinary 
and not care about their
care about their gender than 
allo people?  
CHRISTA: There does seem to be a
lot of ace people who identify 
as nonbinary.
I can't speak for any
concrete reason as to why that 
is, but I suspect it's for 
reasons, where
we discover we feel the same way
about all genders
where we are not sexually 
attracted to them and a lot of
people are also panromantics, so
they feel romantic feelings to 
all genders as well.
I guess having that realisation 
where you feel that attraction
or nonattraction to people of 
other genders.
That reflects on you where you 
start thinking hey, what
is my gender then if I don't 
care about the gender of my 
partner?
That is what I suspect is going 
on, it could be different for 
other people. 
CHAR: Sasha. 
SASHA: I think Christa hit the 
nail on the head based on my own
experience at least.
I think asexuality challenges 
fundamental assumptions that 
society
has about compulsory sexuality 
and I think
when you start to question the 
paradigm that applies to
things like sexuality and then 
apply it to gender and then you 
sort of
thing about your own experience 
of
that and you think, well, if I 
broke the rule
in this one area, maybe I should
reconsider where I think I fit 
in this other area so to speak.
I think, maybe, if aces and
people on the ace spectrum, if 
they are
more likely to have those 
thoughts I could maybe 
understand why they might
be more likely to explore their 
gender in a way that people 
wouldn't normally be
prompted to do so. 
CHAR: Tara. 
TARA: So, I think for myself, 
kind
of similar to what everyone has 
gone through so far, but
I would say
that whenever I sort of looked
at bisexuality
before discovering that 
asexuality was the thing, I 
looked
at bisexuality and I was like, I
like you and you and
you, they were like, no that is 
panromantic and pansexual.
No, that means bi, because I 
like you, you,
you, you, but I like you equally
not as much.
That really started me to do the
questioning,
why do you like you
just as least as I like
you, but you are completely 
different identities?
Which is why I think that both 
of my identities
being ace and genderfluid
kind of came together at the 
same time because I was 
exploring both of
those trains of thought and just
went, hang on a second.
If I am asexual, I don't want to
have people, I don't want to
be looking at people in that 
kind of light, I just think
they have nice eyes
or they are aesthetically 
pleasing or have a nice 
personality.
It doesn't matter what
they look like, because I puck 
out features about them.
You have amazing hair, you could
have
super long hair for a guy and it
could
be bright pink, it's amazing 
hair and I love that hair.
That led me to thinking, right, 
if I don't care about
you in that way, but I really 
care about
you, it doesn't really matter 
what I do then, does it?  It 
kind of landed together hand in 
hand and
it just sort of suddenly, for 
the first time
in a very long time I will say, 
30 years, I felt comfortable.
I was like, yeah, this is good. 
So I think that is obviously 
from my own experience.
I can't speak for everyone, but 
it definitely fits for
people like I have spoken to as 
well in the same situation. 
CHAR: Zaine. 
ZAINE: I think I am just going 
to add on to what everyone
else has already said, because I
think it does stand through.
I think
the reason allo people have 
different experiences is because
if
you look at society at large, 
people do tend
to take gender
and sex as kind of a collective 
thing which is a big
problem to begin with, but I 
think because both
of them
are so deeply connected
people are so focussed on, okay,
I am
a man who attracted to women or 
a man who
is attracted to other men, 
gender becomes really important,
but like everyone
else said, if you don't really
experience anything towards any 
gender, it's like well,
cool, I don't really need to 
care that much about my gender
anyway and it just becomes a 
sort of thing where
because you detach yourself from
one concept
that society put forwards, you 
kind of collectively
do it with the other one, 
because they
are interconnected and it's... 
CHAR: I think we might have lost
Zaine again, so I am going to 
keep
moving. 
CHRISTA: It okay if I bring up a
point from the chat.
There is some interesting 
comments in the
chat about asexual don't want to
be sexualised. 
CHAR: That is a question we are 
going to get to. 
CHRISTA: Never mind then, sorry.
CHAR: I am going to finish up 
with, I have
a theory that there is a 
confounding
variable, if you have access to 
information about asexuality, 
then you
have access to information about
gender and
that maybe there are more people
who feel nonbinary
without the words to explain 
that in the general population. 
We will see.
So the next question, actually I
am going to combine two.
So half of it is I have wondered
whether
the way society sexualises women
may be part
of my discomfort presenting as 
femme which I felt
as a teenager when I didn't 
understand
sexuality, I just put a lot of 
layers on, like don't be 
attracted to me, please.
Do you have experience and I am 
going to combine that with
how you have that with a your 
identity as a trans sexual 
person.
Both the positive I
want to be desired and the 
negative don't be attracted to 
me, how
do you navigate that with a 
nonbinary identity and 
expression. Christa and keep the
responses snappy, please. 
CHRISTA: Okay, so the first 
question was about
sexualising women and I 
definitely feel that a lot 
growing up a-fab.
I really didn't like dress, I 
completely flat out refused to 
wear them growing up.
Even before I started 
identifying nonbinary I was
like I just want to wear male 
clothes
that is it, so I feel that a 
lot.
I think that also like play a 
role in figuring out
I was nonbinary, because I felt 
so uncomfortable presenting as a
woman and wearing make up and 
trying to
be this feminine ideal that I 
just felt zero
comfort with and then in 
navigating
desirability, I think it's
important to note I am
asexual, I am also
grow-romantic, I am aro-spec, so
just stay away from me.
It doesn't play in my life all 
that much trying to have people 
desire me in relationships.
In fact, I think in 
relationships if you
aren't accepting me in my ratty
sweat pants and T-shirt we 
probably aren't going to get 
along well in a relationship.
That is where I am with that. 
CHAR: Sasha. 
SASHA: Mostly to echo what you 
said and particularly with 
presenting femme.
Like growing up I wasn't what 
you would
consider conventionally 
attractive, so I managed to
bypass a lot of that, but then I
got to university and at the 
time I was training in
classical voice performance and 
a lot of our performances 
required make
up dress, sometimes wigs if you 
were in the opera and then
things got very, oh, no, don't 
like that.
So that was interesting and for 
me, yeah, I definitely tried
to stay away from that and 
regarding the latter
point, yeah, I think if someone 
indicates that they think I am
attractive, part of me is like I
am flattered then I am like, oh,
God.
So I still am trying to figure 
out how to negotiate that, 
honestly. 
CHAR: Okay. Tara. 
TARA: For me I have a slightly 
different experience for
that, because there were days 
when I am just like, oh, my
God, I am a princess, this is 
amazing as a kid
and I had the, every year my mum
would dress us
in Christmas dresses and you 
didn't get away from it, you 
were 12 years
old and wearing a dress with
frills and velour and that kind 
of stuff because it made your 
mum happy.
Then there were days when you 
you would go out in
your welly blue
dungarees and you would fall 
over in the mud and come back 
like the monster from the swamp 
thing.
I have always had that dual 
identity.
Some days I want to be really 
femme and I am
okay with that, but then 
suddenly
I run far from it going oh, God,
get it off me, it feels weird.
That kind of moves into my 
desirability,
because I am just like I have 
those two, I have more than 
those,
but I have that kind of, if you 
don't like me with
all of my glitter and doing this
and
that and you don't like me in my
cargos and my
run far from it going oh, God, 
get it off me, it feels weird. 
That kind of moves into my 
desirability, because I am just 
like I have those two, I have 
more than those, but I have that
kind of, if you don't like me 
with all 
of my glitter and doing this and
that and you don't like me in my
cargos and my sweatpants with 
and with the hoody over the top 
that says "keep calm, kill 
zombies", we are not going to 
get along.
That is fine by me I probably 
won't
don't want to know you anyway. 
ZAINE: The way I navigate 
desirability is kind of just 
distancing myself from it.
So I have had a lot of people
express romantic or sexual 
desire
towards me and
like in my brain I am like, 
okay, you
are attracted to me, that sounds
like a you problem, I don't
really care, so long as you are 
not putting that on me
and projecting that on me, I am 
perfectly fine.
I have spoken to friends who 
found me attractive or
I have spoken to friends who 
have like had
fantasies or exciting dreams 
about me and I am like
that is perfectly fine, go 
ahead, I don't
care, so long as you are not 
putting me in a position where I
have to actively deal with it, I
think that is fine.
Something one of my friends said
once where she was like, you
know, you are really hot, but 
also I never
think about having sex with
you because you are asexual, so 
my brain doesn't
process that and I think that is
a wonderful way to look at it. I
just don't care how people... 
CHAR: We have one minute left.
Just really quick, raise your 
hand if you have a feeling that 
you need to prove you are not 
cis?
Okay.
And another question is are tri
any active
virtual meet ups for trans aces 
or aces in general.
I don't know about trans aces, 
but for aces in general I would 
start with asexuality. Org.
From there you can find the 
unofficial
asexual discord and from there 
there is a list of other ace 
discords.
Possibly there is non-discord 
ace spaces out there.
Does anyone know of any. 
TARA: There is one on Facebook 
and and Meetup for aces virtual 
and physical as well. 
CHAR: Okay. 
ZAINE: I was going to give a 
quick shout out, sorry, are we 
out of time?  
CHAR: Sure. 
ZAINE: I was going to give a 
quick shout out to your campaign
which is Ace the Media, we have 
group chats for it where
people can come and interact 
with each other and it's
really nice and really chilling 
and wholesome.
Not that I am plugging my 
campaign, but also come check us
out!
Everyone is super nice. 
CHAR: I wanted to mention 
because someone in the comment 
was
talking about asexuality and 
being forced to have sex.
Later in the conference there is
an open Gather
discussion about sexual trauma 
and asexuality.
So that might be a place to get 
more information about that. All
right. So we have got to wrap up
the session. Thank you so much, 
everyone, for watching.
We had more than 100 viewers and
thank
