Welcome to This Week in
South Carolina.
I'm Gavin Jackson. Over the past
two weeks, we saw both
Presidential campaigns kick into
high gear, with both the
Democrats and Republicans
hosting their national
conventions. And South
Carolina played a big
role in both of those. We
speak with Meg Kinnard
of the Associated Press to find
out what role
that was and what happened on
the national stage.
Also, we speak with economist,
Joey von Nessen about the state
of the economy in South
Carolina.
Now, the latest from this week.
The Republican National
Convention took place
this week and featured
appearances from Governor
Henry McMaster casting
the roll call votes for
the state,
to former Governor Nikki Haley
and Senator Tim Scott
delivering prime time
remarks on Monday. There's
one more important area
where our President is
right. He knows that
political correctness and
cancel culture are
dangerous and just plain
wrong.
In much of the Democratic
Party, it's now
fashionable to say that
America is racist. That is
a lie. America is not a
racist country. In his
remarks, Senator Tim Scott
mentioned George Floyd
and Breonna Taylor.
divided the Cultural
Revolution Joe Biden
and Kamala Harris want, and
also spoke of his own
personal experiences. Our
family went from cotton
to Congress in one
lifetime. And that's why I
believe the next American
century can be better
than the last. There are
millions of families just
like mine all across this
nation full of potential,
seeking to live the
American dream.
And I'm here tonight to
tell you that supporting
the Republican ticket,
gives you the best chance
of making that dream, a
reality. Also this week
Governor McMaster said
the state will
soon be approved for a
$300 boost
in unemployment benefits, a
temporary measure since
Congress has yet to act
on a better solution.
What President Trump has
initiated a plan. We're
studying it. We want to
participate but we want
to be sure that helps our
people. And we believe
it will, but we
want to be sure it
doesn't leave us saddled
with more debt.
Because as you know our
income is down, way
down. We will have another
report from the Board of
Economic *Advisors soon. I
have advised that we
not start a new budget
with adding additional
expenses when we come
back in September, but
keep that continuing
resolution at last year's
level. And joining me now to
discuss national
political conventions is
Associate Press Reporter
Meg Kinnard. She's based here
in Columbia. Meg, how
are you?
I'm great. It's really
good to be back with you
here from my dining room.
Yes, great to see you.
The last time we
talked was in June so. A
lot has transpired since
then including the two
political conventions, the
Democratic National
Convention last week, and
the Republican National
Convention, that's going
on this week. And we have
seen several South
Carolinians play some
prominent roles in both
of those. And before we
talk about the
Republicans going on this
week, I want to talk
about Congressman Jim
Clyburn. The House Majority
Whip, who gave a speech on
Monday evening, the first
night of the Democratic
National Convention.
I want to get your thoughts
on just what he said in
and the importance of
seeing Congressman
Clyburn in that speaking
role.
It was only about a three minute
long, speaking role.
As we know, Congressman
Clyburn is a fixture and
the Dean of the South
Carolina Democratic
Coalition here in the
state. He's the highest
ranking black member in
the House. And from his
powerful leadership
position as the Whip
brings a lot to the state,
in terms of attention, but
also projects that he's
been working on like rural
broadband, for example,
recently. But for him to
play a prominent role at
that Democratic
Convention was not a big
surprise. Congressman
Clyburn's endorsement, not
just in the South
Carolina primary but also
in the Presidential
nominating contest
overall was highly sought
after by all of these
candidates. Having his
buy in for a campaign is
huge. He obviously gave
that buy in to Joe Biden
several days before
primary here back in
February. But to see
Congressman Clyburn
speaking from the rooftop
of the Charleston
Downtown Hotel, The *Dewberry
that we all know and love, to
see him showing off the
city into speaking about
issues that are important
to his constituents in
South Carolina brought the
stage, right here home to
South Carolina and
reminded the voters
across the country of the
role, the state really
plays when it comes to
picking presidential
candidates and nominees
on both sides of the
aisle.
One of the big
things, I remember
hearing from his speech,
again it was a
pretty short speech when you
compare it to what we heard
from Nikki Haley and Tim
Scott, later this week,
One of the big ones that
he spoke about was
about race relations.
Obviously, he was standing
on like you said, on top of
that hotel balcony there,
but also right nearby
Mother Emmanuel AME Church
where the tragic shooting
happened five years ago.
And he said much
like a country as a
whole, we are stepping out
from the shadows of our
past and beginning to lay
the groundwork for a more
just future. It won't be easy.
We can only succeed if we
move together. Really
speaking along those
lines. I saw a lot of
similarities between his
speech some what when we were
talking about race and race
relations and that of
Nikki Haley and Tim
Scott's which we'll talk
about in a moment.
What role is? What
court I guess is Jim
Clyburn trying to strike
there for the Biden
campaign specifically
when we're looking at
invigorating the black
voting block of Democrats?
Joe Biden's whole campaign, he's
talked about it frequently
on the trail was born out of
the immediate aftermath
of the Charlottesville
violence from several
years ago. And he's spoken
about that frequently and
that is very much a
centerpiece of his
campaign trying to repair
what he sees as the
division's drawn in this
country during the first
several years of the
Trump Administration.
So for Congressman Clyburn to be
talking about those
divisions that still
exist, and offering Joe
Biden as the candidate
who is best positioned to
bring America together
along those lines, very
existent not just in the
south, but in many cities
across our country, For
him to be really bringing
Joe Biden in and saying,
this is the man who can
fix the hurt that we all
have here in South
Carolina and otherwise,
that could really speak
to a lot of voters who
were looking for somebody
that can really unite the
country. And Meg when we
look about uniting
the country there,
I want to switch
gears to a little bit to
what we heard from Nikki
Haley, our former Governor,
former US Ambassador to
the United Nations for
the Trump Administration.
What did you hear from
her speech in terms of
maybe United the country
as well? Or maybe how it
differed from what we
heard from Congressman
Clyburn?
Sure. Nikki Haley
we all know her
story but for a lot of
voters across the country
this really is one of
those big opportunities
for her to be introducing
herself on a national
scale. She told a lot of
stories that we're
familiar with about
growing up in Bamberg,
South Carolina, where she
is the daughter of Indian
immigrants, experienced
discrimination. She often
says that she wasn't
black. She wasn't white,
but she was brown. And never
really felt like she fit in.
And so she was speaking
to that diversity that
again obviously Joe Biden
and Congressman Clyburn
want voters to be thinking
about. Nikki Haley is up there
as a Republican saying,
'Look! Don't forget! There'
'are plenty of people like
me who represent'
'diversity within this
party.' And so we could
potentially be speaking
to a lot of those issues
in a very unique and
personal way that not
everybody can, but she
said that she's the one
who really does have
those experiences that
she can bring to the
table, as well. And we saw
some of you know she
obviously discussed Mother
Emanuel again, a big
moment of her time as
governor and four our state
as a whole. It was a huge
flash point. It was a tragic,
tragic event that hit the
state very hard and she
brings it up from time to
time. It's a big
speaking point for her
because she did -
She was guiding the ship.
She was the
head of our state at the
time when it happened. And
she brings up a lot.
At one point, she spoke about it
during
her RNC speech and it drew some
criticism from one of the
victims, one of their
surviving members.
It was Reverend Sharon Wright
-Risher, whose mother
Ethel Lee Lance was
killed at Mother Emanuel
and after Nikki Haley
spoke, Risher tweeted
'Nikki Haley needs to shut
up about Emanuel Nine.'
'She did not do anything
from her heart.'
'All for show. She's a liar,
essentially.'
When you look back at that and
then we look back at
people saying that
maybe enough wasn't done
in the aftermath of
Mother Emanuel.
The flag came down. She
mentioned the flag coming
down. Not by name, just that
a divisive symbol came down
Do you think that that's
going to maybe fall flat for
some African
American voters who
they're maybe trying to
attract to the Republican
Party?
It's going to continue to
be a point of contention
for black voters, but also
maybe for others as well.
Remember, former Governor Haley,
came under
some criticism last year
as well for an interview
that she did in which the
controversy around the
flag came up. And she
referred to it as a
symbol of service,
sacrifice and heritage,
reportedly hijacked by
the shooter at Mother
Emanuel. Those are
comments that drew
a lot of criticism by
some like Reverend
Risher, who was saying
that she was really
trying to be
opportunistic and talking
about an incident that
was very painful.
Perhaps, according to
critics portraying
herself as really more
being forced than
really wanting to bring
that down. Obviously the
flag did come down
during Governor Haley's
tenure. Obviously, she did
speak out and say it was
time for it to come down.
But assuredly she should
pursue a run for higher
office or something else
in the public sphere.
There is going to
continue to be a lot of
comments and discussion
about actually what
happened in 2015
and the chronology there
It's also
interesting because I
know,
cancel culture and
you know political
correctness they're such
broad terms.
It's hard to really define,
especially when you know
some people take them one
way, other groups take them
another way. We've heard a
lot of discussion about
cancel culture. We heard it
in Tim Scott's speech.
We heard it in Nikki Haley's
speech. I'm going to quote.
'There's one more important
area where the'
'President is right, he
knows that political'
'correctness and cancel
culture are'
'dangerous and just plain
wrong.' So. it's really kind
of a tricky balance I
found that when we're
talking about bringing
down a Confederate flag,
which we heard from
Donald Trump Jr.
later on that night say
we need to stop you know
getting rid of monuments. We're
going to start getting rid of
our past essentially. And then
you talk about how
Nikki Haley called for
that flag to come down.
It's kind of a
difficult line to walk.
But like you're saying,
she kinda used
the terms that this was
stolen, this was stolen
from us essentially. This
heritage was therefore
corrupted by a murderer. Is
that going to be
a difficult line to walk
going forward when we talk
about cancel culture as a
whole? And you know can
she walk that line? Is she
managing to do that here?
It will be something that Nikki
Haley is going to have to
navigate very
carefully when she
continues to occupy this
very prominent role on
the national stage. A political
consultant that I
talked to last year about
exactly that, can Nikki Haley
really, really we know
appeal to some Trump
supporters in a genuine
way, but also appeal to
perhaps more traditional
mainline conservatives
and Republicans in the
same way, ones that
she would surely need?
This consultant told
me he saw Nikki Haley as
a potential Goldilocks
candidate, someone who's
going to have to kind of
take a little bit here
and there and find
a happy medium. So, yes it is
a difficult pathway for
her to tread. She's been part
of the Trump
Administration. There's no
denying that and has very
early voiced her
support for President
Trump's election for a
second term.
There's no question there.
But absolutely, issues
like the flag, issues
like that debate will be those
she's going to have to
continue to discuss.
A difficult line to walk
there. But one again very
different from some of
these other situations
when we're talking about
monuments and the like.
So, I want to talk
about Senator Tim Scott there.
He did mention George
Floyd and Breonna Taylor,
something we didn't
hear from other
speakers when we're talking
about these racial justice
issues. You know, Senator
Scott was also at the
forefront of legislation
this past summer dealing
with criminal justice
reform. It got stalled out.
He did mention that he
blamed the Democrats in his
speech. I want to ask you a bit
more about what we
heard in his speech overall
and how it fit
into the narrative of this week.
Tim Scott obviously like
Nikki Haley comes from a
bit of a different
perspective piece. He's the
only Republican, Black
Republican in the U.S.
Senate and he often times
talks about a lot of the
person's difficulties
that he's experienced.
I believe it's been eighteen
times in the past two
decades that he's been
pulled over by law
enforcement. He can speak
to a lot of these issues
that are experienced
within the black
community with
authenticity within the
Republican Party,
something that none of
his colleagues can do. He
also has said
that he doesn't like just
being come to talk
about black issues and
just discussing the
things that are important
to the black community
saying, 'Look, I think every
issue is important to the'
'black community and
otherwise. That's who'
'elected me. It's not just
black people.'
'It's everyone in South
Carolina' So, Tim Scott,
obviously brings
diversity into the
Republican Party and he
did speak to some of that.
But he also talked about
his relationship with
President Trump with whom
he has disagreed at times.
But he has mentioned
opportunity zones.
Those are issues that are very
important to me that
I worked on. The President
supported it. Options for
education for parents,
that's important to me.
The President has
supported it. So, Tim Scott
like Nikki Haley seems to
be the kind of candidate
and politician who's
looking at the Trump
administration
acknowledging that there
are perhaps some things
with which they don't
agree but in those areas
on those issues that they get
the President's support, they're
willing to sit with him
and work on those things.
And that's something that
could be appealing to
voters at high level, as
well. Yeah, he definitely
had probably the biggest line
of the night and
some of the week
so far when he was talking about
his own
personal family and their
narrative there, one you put in
the context of the American
dream, essentially, saying
'Our family went from cotton
to Congress in one'
'lifetime and that's why I
believe the next American'
'century can be better
than the last.'
So, really kind of striking
that, the hopefulness cord
there, as they're trying to
you know
give that hope for broad
diversity within the party
itself and grow that diversity.
So, we'll see
how that maybe pans out
going forward because again
2016, we saw
Donald Trump only get
about 8% of
African American voters.
So, I think there might be
a play there for
attracting some more going
forward.
We don't know until we see those
exit polls in
2020 November, Meg. But really
quick, I want to
get your thoughts on if this was
an audition for
2024 going forward,
we had a lot of big
names out there from
South Carolina.
Obviously, Jim Clyburn's not
running for President but
when you look at Tim Scott, you
look Nikki Haley,
what does the future hold for
them?
Or what does this, these big
speaking parts mean for them?
It really could be seen
as an audition by some people.
A lot of those anecdotes,
the one you
mentioned from Senator Scott
most recently, We've heard them.
We've heard them all before.
These have been part of these
candidates' stump
speeches within South Carolina,
But this is their opportunity to
introduce themselves to
people outside South
Carolina. As we both know
from having been on that
trail for 2020
beginning in
2018, these
presidential races
really do begin very early.
So, who knows exactly
what's ahead for Nikki Haley and
Tim Scott.
Certainly, there's
something perhaps brewing.
And it is really going to
be this is a very good
opportunity for them to
tell their story to a
national audience. And
again, yet again, we see
South Carolina in
centerpiece on a national stage.
We're not a
battleground state as I
wrote the other day, but
it is possible for these
state electives to get
that kind of attention.
They certainly had it
during the Republican
Convention. Definitely did. Well
Meg, thank you very
much for catching up with us.
That's Meg Kinnard with
the Associate Press. She's
a political reporter
based here in Columbia.
Thank you Meg.
Good to be with you.
Joining me now to discuss
South Carolina's
economy is research
economist, Dr Joey von
Nessen of the University
of South Carolina, Darla
Moore School of Business.
Joey, great to have you
back. Thanks Gavin.
Always great to be with you.
Great. Well, Joey, it's been
a couple months since we
last spoke. I want to get
your take on where things
are right now, when we look at
the state's economy.
Are things doing better or
worse than you thought
they would be at
this point now in late August?
Well, things are doing
better. And I think the word
to use is stability.
Our pace of recovery,
definitely has slowed
from a fast rise in
terms of what we call a
V. shaped recovery
pattern. We shifted more
towards a U.
shaped recovery pattern,
which is more slow and
steady growth. But that is
likely to continue into
the Fall months. But if we
look overall at the
recovery that we've seen
so far, South Carolina has
gained back about 54%
of the jobs that
were lost. We've seen an
unemployment rate drop from
12.8% to
8.6%.
So, we are making a lot of
progress, but we're likely
to make a more slow and steady
approach for the rest of
2020.
Of course different
sectors are rebounding it
at different rates. It's
certainly not uniform
across the board at this point.
When you
look at those different sectors
obviously I'm
guessing you're talking about
maybe hospitality
and tourism taking a longer
time to come back
than what? Manufacturing? Or
what other sectors are
maybe showing some bright
spots?
Well, right now if we
look at the areas
that are growing at the
fastest rate versus less
so. Particularly when we
look at job growth,
you see a big divide
between jobs that are a
higher wage, higher
skilled positions, versus
lower waged, lower skilled
positions.
The bottom line there is
does a given job
require some form of
education beyond high
school. If the answer is yes,
then the recovery is
progressing pretty nicely.
If the answer is no, not so
much. To put a fine point on
that, you can look at it
overall job growth in these two
categories. Job growth is up
year to date by about 4%
for higher waged,
higher skilled positions.
Its down close to
10% for the lower waged,
lower skilled positions.
So, it's definitely
industry specific and
specific to the type of
job as well. Can you even
pinpoint when we look at those
lower skilled jobs?
Can you pinpoint really what
it's tied to?
Is it really going to be those
social distancing measures,
measures until we
basically have a vaccine,
that industry won't
be coming back?
Is that maybe a right time for
someone who's maybe
watching this whose in one
of those stuck positions
right now to think Hey
maybe I should go
to a technical college and get
a degree
in advanced manufacturing or
something that's maybe
moving a little bit more
upward at this time?
Yes, that's exactly right.
The industry that's
been hit hardest is
leisure hospitality.
So, we lost about 50%,
five zero, 50%
of the jobs in April
compared to where we were
in April 2019.
Now, that sector's only
down about 20%,
which is still bad but
it's a sizable
improvement from where we
were back in April. But
that's typically where
we've seen the most layoff
activity. The most losses
of employment. So, going
forward as we look
towards the recovery.
Yes, if we look at
industries that have been
required to engage
with in person
interactions, those are
the ones in general that
have been the hardest hit.
and those are going to
slowly recover over time
as we head through the
rest
of this year and into 2021.
And like you said, we did
see that record
high of unemployment in April.
We've started to bring it
down. We saw it go from,
I think it was
8.7% in
June to 8.6%
in July. So, really
kind of a - Are we hitting
some sort of floor, in
your opinion, when we see
maybe that this economy,
this recovery is going to
be a little bit longer
than we may be
anticipated? Or what do
those numbers show you
when we see that
negligible difference
between those two months
right there?
I think that reflects the
reality that the recovery is
going to be slow and steady over
time that the V
shape or that bounce back
that we saw during the
early summer was largely,
simply the
result of the fact that we
fell so far, so fast.
We saw the shut down. And as
the economy re opened, many
of these sectors that just
simply weren't operating went
back to work, saw their
employment numbers rise and so
that's where we've seen
this benefit. So
54% of the jobs that
have been recovered in
South Carolina is a
quick turnaround. If you
compare that to the Great
Recession, it took us five
years to regain a 100%
of the jobs that
we lost in the aftermath
of the financial crisis.
So, we're doing a lot
better. It's likely to be
a shorter
total recovery period
overall. But yes, I think
it's going to be much
slower going forward,
simply because you tend to
recover faster initially,
particularly
after a major shutdown. Yeah
it looks like right now
there's about a 141
thousand people
in South Carolina who are
still receiving benefits.
We have seen those
numbers of unemployment
benefit claims go down
week by week for the most
part. So, that is
encouraging news there.
Are there any other
encouraging numbers
you're looking at?
I've seen some numbers
when it comes to you know
new home starts and you
know durable goods have
been going up.
We saw retail numbers. I
wondering if that's something
that people have really been
focusing on
when we start looking
at the bones and
the stability of
our economy going forward.
Well, retail is doing better.
Consumer spending is
getting stronger. Yes,
the housing market has
been doing exceptionally
well. They're actually
breaking records right
now, in terms of sales
activity. So those
industries continue to be
strong. If you look at
E-commerce, that's
moving in the right
direction.
Manufacturing is
stabilizing a lot, as well
and is doing
better, which is great
news for South Carolina.
And I would say going
forward, if you look more
long run so, let's say
one, two to five years out. Even
though 2020 has been a
rocky year, I'm very *bullish
on South Carolina as a whole.
Because we have a number
of competitive advantages
that are not going away.
Everything from our
strength, in terms of a low
cost of living to strong
natural amenities that
draw people to South
Carolina, particularly as
they're looking to flee
some of the major
cities. And plus we
have a strong diverse
industry sector,
particularly advanced
manufacturing, which is
poised to continue to be
strong in the next decade.
And the Port of Charleston
aids that as well. The other
industry too. If we look at the
transition more towards
e-commerce and the need for
more distribution
hubs for population
centers, South Carolina
benefits there as well.
We heard that Walmart just
recently announced the
distribution center in
Charleston. That's going to be
a jumping off point for
distribution to the
entire southeastern
United States, which is
going to be seeing a bolt to
population growth in the
United States over the
next decade. So, South
Carolina really is well
positioned for the future even
though 2020 has clearly been a
rough year for everyone.
You're talking about the
ports and they've seen about 70
blank sailings so far
this year. That's you know,
ships that just didn't
make their scheduled
in coming to port. But, it
still sounds like things
are ticking up a little
bit for the new fiscal
year which start in July.
They were going
into a strong year until the
pandemic took its toll.
So, I guess, when we start
looking at the foundation
of our economy, we still have
those bright spots. It's
just a matter of how long
will it take for them to
come back?
When we're talking about
these metrics
and when we look at
these trends, do you
feel like Wall Street is
in sync with Main Street?
Is it ever in sync with
Main Street? Or when we look at
the stock market
specifically, the
stock market is just
booming right now. But do
the folks on Main Street
feel that as well when
we're talking about 141
thousand South
Carolinians were still
getting jobless benefits?
Well, no. Many of them don't.
It's a very interesting
question because it
really is quite bizarre when
you just compare stock
market performance to GDP
growth. Because we are
literally coming out of
the worst quarter GDP
growth in history at the
same time that we're seeing
the best stock market in our
history. Those two things
are happening at the same
time. So, it's very unusual.
One reason for that has
been fed policy which is
continuing to provide
stimulus in order to help
propel this recovery.
And so the stock market
has reacted to that and I
think that's
been a good thing. We would be
in much worse shape
if the Fed had not taking
proactive steps.
So, the stock market is doing
well. It is a positive
thing. But yes, you're
absolutely right.
That does not always
translate to certainly
not to every industry. And
it does create this divide.
I think the way to see that
especially in the job
market is to look at the
lower skilled, lower waged
jobs versus the higher
skilled higher waged jobs.
And that's really where
the divide is in terms of
who's recovering at the
fastest rate right now.
Joey we have a minute left
I want to get this question
about Boeing. You've been
following their progress.
You know North Charleston,
they've been having some
rough quarters
because the 737
Max issues but also
because of just
international pressure,
international demand on
air travel has just gone
completely down. It's going to
be multiple years until they
get back to where they
were in 2019
at those levels, which as
a result has led Boeing
to cut the number of
77 Dreamliners
that they'll be producing
both you know in total
here and North Charleston
and then Washington.
It's left them to discuss
not only,
widespread layoffs but
also possible
consolidation. I just
want to get your thoughts
on what that could mean
to North Charleston.
Do you think we're
better positioned to get
maybe the
consolidation happening
here? Or what would what
would happen if you know
those jobs did leave
South Carolina?
I think we're in a good position
to
be competitive for those jobs.
If that consolidation happens,
I think there's a good
chance it does happen
in South Carolina, which
would be a win for the
state, even though clearly
not good news for
consolidation from
the perspective of
Boeing. But yes, that could
definitely help South Carolina.
There are multiple
factors that go into that
decision. So, we really
have to wait and see.
Costs play a key role,
which would be an
advantage for South
Carolina but also the
labor needs on and
the supply chain.
South Carolina's
competitive there, but
perhaps slightly less
well situated,
compared to the advantages
that we offer
for lower costs. So, I think
we can be competitive.
It's certainly possible
but again we really don't
know, but it would
definitely be a win for
South Carolina, if they were to
consolidate in Charleston.
I think we'll be finding out,
within a month is what
I've been here in terms
of when that report
might be coming out from Boeing.
So, research
economist Dr. Joey von
Nessen with the University of
South Carolina School of
Business. Always good to
see you, Sir.
Thank you for your time.
Stay up to date throughout the
week. Check out the
South Carolina Lede, it's a
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latest COVID-19 news
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We drop it multiple times
each week. And you can
find it wherever you find
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South Carolina ETV,
I'm Gavin Jackson Be
well, South Carolina.
