[MUSIC PLAYING]
ALAN SEALES: You know
who he is, widely
regarded as one
of the major music
influencers of our
generation, he's
created an enormous body
of genre bending music that
includes pop albums with Ben
Folds Five, multiple solo
albums, and numerous
collaborative records.
His last album was
a blend of pop songs
and his concerto for
piano and orchestra
that soared to number one on
the Billboard classical and
classical crossover
charts for over a decade.
He's performed with some
of the greatest symphony
orchestras in addition to being
a judge on NBC's the "Sing
Off."
Continues to have cameos
all over cable network TV.
Everybody, please help me
welcome to the stage Mr. Ben
Folds.
[APPLAUSE]
BEN FOLDS: How you doing?
ALAN SEALES: Hi.
Good.
You can sit over here.
Welcome to Google.
BEN FOLDS: Good to be here.
ALAN SEALES: Are you enjoying
your Diet Cokes and snacks
from our micro kitchens?
BEN FOLDS: Yeah.
It's good snack and
a good Coke, yeah.
ALAN SEALES: Born in North
Carolina in Winston-Salem.
I want to start at the
beginning of your life,
before we get to the career, to
talk about a little bit of who
you are as a person.
So you started playing
piano at age nine.
When did you walk
up to piano and say,
this is what I want to do.
BEN FOLDS: Well, I had
sort of done that before.
Before I had a piano,
I was interested in it.
There was one at school,
and every once in a while,
I got to play on that.
I had a friend who his
mother was a piano teacher.
And she was trying to get
him to learn "Silent Night"
on the piano for Christmas.
And maybe seven or
eight, I picked it out
by ear in the living
room and was playing.
And she came running
in very excited
that her son had finally
learned that song.
And she told my mother,
he probably needs to play.
He seems to be good at this.
ALAN SEALES: So you always
had a natural gift for piano,
or just music in general?
BEN FOLDS: I loved music.
When I was two years
old, I sat on the floor
and listened to 45s records
up to eight hours a day.
That's a lot for 2-year-old.
It prompted my
grandmother to spring
for a child psychologist, who
confirmed that I was slow.
I'm glad they got a laugh.
ALAN SEALES: Yes.
Was that serious?
You actually saw somebody?
BEN FOLDS: Yeah.
ALAN SEALES: Really?
BEN FOLDS: Mm-hmm.
ALAN SEALES: Wow.
BEN FOLDS: Yep.
Yep, I guess it was that square
pegs in round holes stuff.
I don't know what he did.
It was play therapy probably.
And he said I should
be held back in school.
My mother doubled down
in the opposite direction
and put me in early.
ALAN SEALES: Really?
BEN FOLDS: Mm-hmm.
ALAN SEALES: And
obviously, it worked.
BEN FOLDS: It seems
to have worked, yeah.
ALAN SEALES: Yes.
And as a two-year-old, you
didn't let it hold you back.
BEN FOLDS: No.
But I was obsessed with records.
I mean, that's an
actual obsession,
like eight hours
a day for a kid.
And right now, I'm
finishing up my memoirs.
And yeah, I was
spending some time
remembering that and wondering
if that I can remember so much
from when I was
two years old, it's
possible it has to do with
stimulation of the brain
from music.
ALAN SEALES: Mm-hmm.
BEN FOLDS: Because
my parents will say,
you couldn't remember
two years old.
Well, I'll tell them the
house plan of the place
that we lived in.
We moved once a year.
So at any year, I can tell
them where all the rooms were.
If I'm two years
old, I can remember
where they put
the Christmas tree
and where the lights were
and the room addition
and where they had stuff stored.
It's I can remember.
It's good.
And I'm not that damn smart.
It's just that I
remember really early.
ALAN SEALES: Wow.
Yeah, well, if what you were
obsessed with as a two-year-old
is any indication of
what my kids will be,
they're going to be barn
yard animals or marbles.
BEN FOLDS: Yeah.
ALAN SEALES: Basically.
But North Carolina.
So I can get them in music.
That's the lesson here.
BEN FOLDS: Marbles
fit in the mouth.
Records don't.
You might stick with records.
ALAN SEALES: Oh, that's
a very good point.
North Carolina
itself isn't exactly
known for producing a steady
stream of mainstream artists.
How did you navigate
the North Carolina scene
and get into mainstream culture?
BEN FOLDS: Well,
when you say that,
do you mean that
most of the artists
there are known to be
out of the mainstream,
or that it's just not
that they play music?
What's the?
ALAN SEALES: That they're not--
well, it's a lot of bluegrass.
It's a lot of country.
It's not-- well, I guess,
country is more mainstream.
But like your
alternative, your rock,
the genres that you're known
for are not popular, not common
in North Carolina.
BEN FOLDS: Right.
Well, I think, when
I was a kid, there
was a real healthy sort
of original band scene.
There was a group
called the dB's
that went to my school
a couple years earlier.
And they were all sort of
tied in with R.E.M. And Mitch
Easter, and great, great.
They made one-- well,
they made a few records,
but they made one record
that topped "New York
Times" new record list.
And they were from
Winston-Salem.
And that was really
inspiring to me
to see that they could
actually get out of town.
I think the thing
about living anywhere,
unless you live
in New York or LA,
is that it seems like all
the famous stuff comes
from somewhere else.
You don't think of
it coming from there.
But I mean, Ryan Adams,
who we were talking about,
he was from Raleigh.
And just within a few
blocks of my house
was a band called the
Squirrel Nut Zippers.
ALAN SEALES: Yes.
BEN FOLDS: They were pretty big.
And then there was a band
called the Archers of Loaf.
And they sold a lot
of records and was
one of Kurt Cobain's favorite.
There was a lot of original
bands that were very stubborn.
You know, they weren't
out to be mainstream.
It was more sort
of left of center.
ALAN SEALES: So walk me
then through where you
went to form Ben Folds Five.
BEN FOLDS: Yeah, I
had been in New York,
and it was tough up here for
me, because I play piano.
Like my options
were to play places
like The Bitter End, which
is great, has a piano,
but it's not the most creative.
It's not where you
would go to really hear
something new that was good.
And I met my manager by breaking
a piano string at The Bitter
End.
And I couldn't afford to pay
for it, and he took care of it
for me.
And then the next night,
I played [INAUDIBLE]..
I don't know if anyone
remembers Cafe [INAUDIBLE],,
but they didn't have a piano.
And so I had to play
an electric one,
and I always sucked
on electric piano.
So he told me, you
sucked tonight.
And I was like, great.
Would you like to be my manager?
ALAN SEALES: But you also
play drums and guitar, right?
BEN FOLDS: I mean, yeah.
Yeah, I play drums, guitar.
I started on the drums.
I started thinking
that I was going
to be a percussionist in an
orchestra, timpani, [INAUDIBLE]
or battery percussion.
I thought that was what I
was going to do with my life.
And so I had plan B
as a piano player,
but I had always
written and made up
my songs from a very young age.
Before I was playing piano,
I was making up songs.
And so when I started
playing piano,
the piano promised to
facilitate my ideas.
It took a long time,
because I had to--
it was very frustrating
having an idea
that you know that you
could play on the piano
if you could only play it.
So I had to learn how
to play the piano.
ALAN SEALES: So then
you sucked in New York,
or didn't do well in New York?
BEN FOLDS: It was tough, yeah.
I found it tough,
because the places
I wanted to play, I had
to get a piano into,
which is obviously not something
you just carry around New York.
So when I met this guy
who became my manager,
we just sat down, and
were like, you know,
why don't I just go back
to North Carolina where
I will have some space and
can put my piano in a house
and practice?
And so that's when
I moved back, I
met Robert and Darren,
who are the other two
guys from Ben Folds Five.
We met within a month, and we
had a record out within a year.
We just moved really quickly.
So once I got there,
things became very easy.
I think in New
York, it was always
going to take a year for me to
figure out how to do anything,
like just get somewhere.
ALAN SEALES: Right.
And when you met
the other two guys,
I guess, how did the
collaboration work?
Were you writing all the songs,
and they were adding into it?
BEN FOLDS: I'd
written everything
that we put on the first record.
And I'd had that
in my back pocket
for maybe up to 10 years.
So some of the songs
on the first record,
I wrote when I was
18, 19 years old.
And I was waiting tables
over most of my 20s.
And so when we got
together, at first,
we were going to just
do all new stuff.
And then I think it
just became obvious
that a lot of these
songs that I'd
been sitting on for 10 years
were hard to beat quickly.
So the first album is
all, like it usually
is, it's all the songs that
you had since the beginning.
And then the second album,
"Whatever and Ever Amen," all
had to be basically new stuff.
So then that was
like, that started
a terrible habit of mine
of writing in the studio.
It was a terrible habit.
ALAN SEALES: And you compose,
but you compose a lot of songs
live during your concerts.
BEN FOLDS: Yeah.
ALAN SEALES: Do you
have a track record
of having things that
you've done in the concerts
make their way back
onto recorded records.
BEN FOLDS: I have
a couple times.
There are a couple of notable
ones that are really close.
A song called "Cologne"
was originally
freestyled on stage in Cologne
as rock this bitch in Cologne.
And it turned out to be
kind of a sad, soft song.
It came about because
I was on drugs.
I had pneumonia,
and I was taking
a lot of these codeine drops.
And I didn't think they
were doing anything,
so the doctor said, you
know, take six codeine drops,
and you'll stop coughing.
And it didn't really work.
So the next night in
Cologne, I took like 20.
And so I was trying to freestyle
a song, and all I could do
was laugh.
I had nothing.
It was terrible.
It was a total waste of
everyone's time and money.
And after about five
minutes, and you
can find this on YouTube,
if you're really bored,
but the first three to
five minutes is terrible.
And then all of a
sudden, something hit me,
and it becomes this song
"Cologne," and it's about 75%
there freestyled.
Like almost everything
that's on the record.
The chorus is a
little different,
because I didn't want to say
rock this bitch in Cologne
for the chorus.
But there's another
one called "Effington,"
which was, I'd say,
I don't know how
do you quantify these things,
80% composed freestyle.
And usually, they're
not that tidy.
And I'll take an idea that came
about at a show often use that.
Because I think that
you're in a different
headspace to sort of freestyle
in front of an audience.
You know?
Usually, if I've been
playing for an hour,
feel comfortable
with the audience,
and that's the
point that I do it,
that's a different headspace
than sitting by yourself
and writing.
So I've found a lot of good
stuff has come that way.
But recently, I was thinking
about this, because there
was a comedian in the UK.
I guess he's famous.
He had a shit ton of followers.
And he accused me of
ripping off one of my songs.
And all these people
were piling on.
This was a couple of years ago.
And the person they said
that I'd ripped off,
I'd never heard of.
So I went and listened to this
person that I had ripped off.
And I realized that this
song that I had supposedly
ripped off was from
way later than when
I had come up with it on stage.
So I just went to YouTube, and
I found when I freestyled it,
and I sent it to this comedian.
I was like, look,
this is from 2011.
I made most of this up on stage.
So stop.
He's like, oh, sorry, mate.
ALAN SEALES: So you were many
years with Ben Folds Five.
And then, can you
talk about why you
guys decided to
go separate ways?
Is that something you
want to talk about?
BEN FOLDS: Yeah, I
mean, I think overall,
it was because, as I described,
we got together really quickly.
It was a mercenary thing.
I wanted to start a band.
These are the first
two guys I met.
I didn't even hear them
play when I committed
to play in a band with them.
ALAN SEALES: Really?
BEN FOLDS: I was
just in that space.
I was like, I gotta get it done.
I gotta get it done.
They looked like rock stars.
I heard they were pretty good.
And we didn't have necessarily
all that much in common,
so it was six years of being
in each other's back pockets
financially.
You're living in a bus two
inches from the other guy.
We got along fine, but we
just didn't have all that
much in common.
And so I think after
our third album,
although it wasn't a
great commercial success,
it was also not a
great critical success.
Usually, you get one of the two.
We didn't manage one of them.
And it just looked
like, yeah, OK, well, we
should probably sell
while stocks are not
as low as they will get.
And so we just called it.
I think it was three
emails, and we were done.
And I didn't expect it, but
one day, Darren wrote and said,
I don't think I
want do it anymore.
And then Robert said, well,
if he doesn't want to do it
anymore, then I don't want to.
And I was like,
OK, well, I guess
I don't want to do it anymore.
So then I took all my songs
which were meant for the band,
I did them myself for
"Rockin the Suburbs."
ALAN SEALES: So "Rockin
the Suburbs," actually,
was released on 9/11.
BEN FOLDS: That's right.
ALAN SEALES: Which do
think was it the album,
was it the songs that you
think were responsible for it
not doing well commercially,
or was it all tied
to the 9/11 happenstance?
Because "Rockin the
Suburbs," by the way,
is one of my all
time favorite albums.
BEN FOLDS: Thank you.
Thank you.
Well, it didn't do well
over its first year,
but it had an interesting way
of hanging on for a long time.
And so it's become
one of my, you know,
if I had to run out of a
burning building with two
albums to my name, it would
have to be "Rockin the Suburbs"
and the band's first album.
I don't think I
could have a career
without either one of those.
Those are necessary for
me to exist, I think.
But I don't know.
I mean, a lot of
it was the release.
I mean, already when
you go solo from a band,
it's not an easy place.
It's assumed that you're not
going to do well, I think.
ALAN SEALES: I feel like
people want soloists
to fail when they
leave the band,
because they'd
rather have the band.
BEN FOLDS: Yeah, I think so.
I mean, I think I've
always been like that too.
So I knew that when
I put the album out.
I was like, OK, have at it.
But also you feel
like, you know,
I made that record
when I was 33.
I felt like I'd aged out
of the music business.
I don't know why I thought that
was aged out at 33, because I'm
older than that now.
And I'm OK.
But yeah, I think, too,
the other thing was
at the end of each decade,
there is a obvious changing
of the rock and roll guard.
All the hairy chest,
screaming guys in the '70s
were out as of the '80s.
And all the sort
of new wave artists
were out as of the '90s.
And the grungers were
out when the aughts came.
It's just always too, and when
you put out a record like 2001,
and you're a '90s
band, it's uphill.
ALAN SEALES: Right.
BEN FOLDS: But I think what's
really been good for me is just
doing different things.
At that point, I didn't try
to just do solo records.
I tried to do other things.
ALAN SEALES: Well, that's
what I was going to get into.
That's a good segue.
Thank you.
BEN FOLDS: Yeah.
I had a feeling.
ALAN SEALES: That you've
done tons of collaborations.
Collaborations
with other artists,
but also you're crossing genre
boundaries all the time often
with these collaborations.
Like you've helped William
Shatner produce a record.
You've worked with Weird Al,
Amanda Palmer, Sara Bareilles,
which of course, has done her
own Broadway to pop crossover.
Cake and, of
course, Nick Hornby.
How do you choose what
you want to work on,
and who you want
to work on it with?
BEN FOLDS: Well, it's
usually it's the who first.
And it's usually circumstantial.
Like Weird Al, he was
buying frozen pizzas
at the grocery store.
And we were standing next
to each other in line,
and he's like, oh, I'm
a fan of your music.
ALAN SEALES: And I imagine
it like, Weird Al, Ben.
BEN FOLDS: Yeah.
ALAN SEALES: Weird, Ben weird.
BEN FOLDS: Yeah.
Yeah, it was just that weird.
ALAN SEALES: [DRUM ROLL SOUND]
BEN FOLDS: And I think that is
like I like the personal first.
Because like with
William Shatner,
I was interested in him.
And in what did we
really know about William
Shatner at that point?
He's an actor, and he's odd.
You know?
So you don't really know who
you're who you're talking to.
And I thought an album of a
75-year-old man who everyone
knows who he is, but
don't really know him,
gives him a chance
to tell a story.
And a musical story
is a compelling story
if it's done well.
And I think Shatner is a
great recording artist.
He was one of my favorite.
He's not a musician, but
he's one of my favorites
to ever work with, because
he's so brave about every take.
It's always different.
And yeah, I really
enjoyed working with him.
ALAN SEALES: Do you
have another favorite?
I was going to ask
who your favorite was.
But--
BEN FOLDS: Yeah.
ALAN SEALES: --he's one of them.
BEN FOLDS: He's
certainly one of them.
I mean, they're
all my favorites,
because it's you always pull
something really interesting.
I mean, one thing I think
that all artists have
in common, a few things, one
is I think we're all hacks.
And it's really great to see
your favorites hacking around
in the darkness.
They don't seem to know
what they're doing.
And that's a wonderful
thing to see.
Because if you're collaborating
with someone who's not famous,
it's good to remember that
they may have a good idea.
They seem like bad ideas
when they come out at first,
you know?
I noticed that
about Joe Jackson,
who was one of my favorites
when I was growing up.
And working with him,
I was like, well,
that's an abysmal idea.
That's terrible.
Then I thought, you know,
I like everything he does.
Maybe there's something to this.
But when you allow the idea
to see the light of day,
I think I learned from
collaboration that way.
ALAN SEALES: Who do
you think that you've
worked with that's influenced
you the most as a solo artist?
BEN FOLDS: Well, I
certainly learned
from watching Shatner do every
take completely different.
That that's really something
that we all need to learn from.
If you've already
done the past one way,
really, you don't
need to do that again.
And I think that that's
really interesting.
Working with Sara Bareilles
is inspiring and slightly
depressing, because she nails
everything absolutely perfectly
on the first pass.
She's the most technically
proficient performer
I've ever worked with,
and that there's nothing
that you want more out
of it than what you hear
on the first past in any way.
And that made me really,
really have to work hard.
Because if I don't
find something wrong,
I was producing her record, if
I didn't find anything wrong,
then I got skewered.
It's like so I got
really careful about it.
She'd do a pass.
I'd be reading the lyrics,
and I'd circle stuff.
It's like, slightly flat, not
really, but OK, slightly flat.
OK, she's making some kind
of mouth smacking noise.
You're going to the salad bar
here, and a couple things.
And then when she'd
come out, I'd say,
here are your problems,
and I'd list them.
She's like relieved.
I'm glad someone's listening
with a critical ear.
And then I'd say, and
we're keeping the pass,
because it's beautiful.
But that's the only way
someone that good you can.
And I've played with plenty
of classical musicians
and all sorts of
musicians, but she's just
sort of a freak that way.
ALAN SEALES: Freak and an
amazingly talented person.
BEN FOLDS: And
she's also talented.
ALAN SEALES: And so you've
performed solo with bands.
You've obviously got a love for
orchestras and acapella music.
Do you have a style?
I mean, you're
known for the rock,
but do you have a style that if
you could just live forever--
You have water over
there somewhere.
BEN FOLDS: Is that where it is?
That was obvious.
Where's water?
ALAN SEALES: Yeah,
if you had a style
that you could do forever and
just make unlimited money,
which one would it be out of
everything that you've done?
BEN FOLDS: I'm still on
the unlimited money part.
I never thought about that.
You know, I wouldn't.
I don't have a
favorite anything.
I don't have a favorite style.
I don't rage against style.
I mean, I think it's cool.
Because when I go
to buy a record,
I like to know if it's a
country record or a jazz record.
I don't know when this artist
is like, I can't be defined.
But I do think that
not worrying about that
and residing somewhere between
them all is a nice place.
So I like being
able to not worry.
I mean, that's very low
resolution creativity
if you're thinking about
you've got five styles,
and there's so much that falls
between the cracks of all
those.
If you're just going to
pick those five points
and live inside it, I'm not
sure how that could happen.
I made a little single recently
for the "Washington Post"
of all projects.
I thought it was interesting,
because they wanted
me to be a reporter
as a songwriter, which
I thought was fascinating.
I liked the idea of doing that.
And what wasn't
noticed, which I thought
was interesting
about the song, is
I felt like it was resoundingly
it resided in folk music.
And no one said.
Most of time, I make something
that I feel like is in a style,
and people will comment.
And I felt, well,
that either means
that I can do whatever
style I feel like and no one
even notices it anymore,
or I don't know what.
But I thought it was
an interesting thing,
because I expected.
I mean, it's like I got a
tap dancer being the drummer.
It had fiddle and banjo in it.
And I would've thought that
would have been notable.
Like, you know, the peanut
gallery been like, oh, now,
he's going to make
country records.
But no one said a thing.
So maybe I can do what I want.
I don't know.
ALAN SEALES: For your
next album then, I'll
plant the idea to write
the song as an engineer.
BEN FOLDS: Yeah.
It's not a bad idea.
ALAN SEALES: Yeah, right?
You can call it ones and zeros.
BEN FOLDS: Yeah.
ALAN SEALES: There you go.
There's your title.
BEN FOLDS: That's pretty good.
ALAN SEALES: In 2009, you were
a judge on "The Sing Off,"
and you also released "Ben
Folds Presents Acapella."
Do you have a special
place for acapella music?
BEN FOLDS: I was really, I
mean, still am interested in it.
But my interest in
acapella was self-centered,
because so many
university acapella
groups were covering my music.
And when I started a little
bit before Ben Folds Five,
my ambition was
to be a songwriter
that other people covered.
That's what I want.
That's what I
thought I would do.
And Bette Midler
covered one of my songs.
And then no one else did.
And that's not bad.
I mean, Yellow Card did.
So Bette Midler and
Yellow Card, that
has been the extent and hundreds
and hundreds of acapella groups
from universities.
So I just wanted to visit
these acapella groups,
bring some microphones, and a
sound engineer, and record it.
And that's where the album came
from that university acapella
record.
When I was a kid, I really
loved National Geographic field
recordings.
And this was molded and I
tried to make it like that.
Because they were, obviously,
just a couple of mics, and they
were in the natural habitat
of the natives, which
is what I wanted to do
with these college kids.
I wanted to record it in
their natural habitat, which
would have been
like, the lunchroom,
or there was a
synagogue on campus
that we recorded one in
that sounded really great.
I didn't mind about
external noise.
And I didn't mind about
it sounding like a record.
Oddly enough, there
was an acapella scene
it turns out of
people who were really
into acapella recordings.
And they didn't like what I did.
ALAN SEALES: Really?
BEN FOLDS: Yeah, because
it wasn't perfect.
They were cultivating a style
that involved perfection, which
had all the singers
doubled and tripled
and auto tuned within
an inch of their lives.
And they were
imitating instruments.
It was like, but what I
love about the voice is
it sounds like the voice.
That's what's
interesting about it.
So that's where
I went with that.
And my interest in that
led to being recruited
for NBC's "Sing Off" show.
So those two were kind
of connected in a way.
ALAN SEALES: Right.
Did you enjoy that?
Do you enjoy being
on TV like that,
or is that like, I don't want
to be on the big screens.
BEN FOLDS: It was interesting,
because it's so cheesy.
ALAN SEALES: But so
many people love it.
BEN FOLDS: But that's
what I was going to say,
like, I actually kind
of embraced that.
Because I had asked
myself, because I
was trying to decide whether
I was going to accept this
or not, and at the end of the
day, listening to great music
and commenting on
it with the hopes
to possibly improve
it or add perspective
for the people who performed
it didn't seem cheesy at all.
ALAN SEALES: Mm-hmm.
BEN FOLDS: You know?
And the format
itself is a formula,
and so I was judging it
from that perspective.
And I was hard on it.
But once I got in it,
I really did enjoy it.
You have a very short period
of time, a window with which
to hear precisely what's going
on with the entire group,
like the whole rhythm section.
It's not like "American
Idol" or something
where they're not judging
the bed, the arrangement.
They're just judging whether
the singer brought it or not.
And in this case, I got
to really listen and do
what I feel like is one
of the things I'm best at,
which is listening
to a performance
and having some clarity as to
what might be the next step.
Because people that perform,
especially on television,
they don't know what
they've just done, no idea.
They feel like they've just gone
backwards through a car wash
with a bag over their head.
They have no idea
where they are.
And they come out,
and they're like,
it seemed like two seconds.
And it was 2 and 1/2 minutes.
And they're like, tonight,
what the hell just happened?
You know?
To have someone in
front of you say,
I know you were wondering
where you were sliding.
Your tenor wasn't flat.
Your basis was sharp.
And so then you started
moving that way.
You got nervous, and
these things, the legs got
pulled out from underneath it.
And over, of course, the 2
and 1/2 minutes, you rushed.
So just tell them the basics
that are really, really obvious
to the obstacles to
communicating the songs were
really interesting to me.
And I really enjoyed doing it.
It's really hard too, because
you have two other judges,
and they're noticing things.
And you never know what order
you're going to get chosen in.
So the host of the show would
say the two others first,
and they'd say everything
that I was going to say.
So then I'd just have to make
up some stupid joke and move on.
But if they got to
me first, then I
had a wider field
of what to say.
But no, I enjoyed it.
I thought it was good.
It lasted, I think I
did it for four seasons.
And then they replaced
me on the last one.
And then I think they threw
the set away and that was it.
ALAN SEALES: So talking
about education as well.
You're a outspoken champion
for arts education and music
therapy funding in our
nation's public schools.
2016, you were the only
one to hold the distinction
to appear in both national
political conventions
advocating for arts education.
How did that happen?
BEN FOLDS: Well,
Americans for the Arts,
who I work with a lot,
had a slot on both.
And said, it's kind of weird,
but if you want to do both,
that might be a good idea.
And I thought it
was a good idea.
And in fact, I learned
a lot that way.
I mean, my buddy for the day was
Mike Huckabee at the Republican
National Convention.
And I found him to be a really
very eloquently spoken about
arts funding.
Outside of that, I don't know.
But for that, he's very good at.
And it made me realize, it
drove home that as a musician,
if I'm going to go and
sit across from senators
and congressmen and try
to convince them to keep
arts education healthy in
public schools and arts
funding in general,
it's best if I also
can come from the
economic perspective.
And it's actually more
interesting in a way.
I mean, everyone knows
everyone likes art.
Every senator's
son and daughter is
going to go to a
school somewhere that
has good music and good art.
They're going to make sure
that they have access to it.
So you don't have to convince
them of the importance of it.
What you're trying
to convince them
is the importance
of investing in it
and the importance
of the symbolism
of having invested in it.
ALAN SEALES: Right.
So if anybody has
questions for Ben,
please start lining
up at the mics there.
Great.
I want to go back real quick.
Tell us about what you're doing
with the Kennedy Center in DC.
BEN FOLDS: My main
project, well, they
call me the artistic
advisor, which was nice.
I got a three year--
ALAN SEALES: First ever.
BEN FOLDS: First ever, yeah.
They made the
position up for me.
That's kind of cool.
I do a lot of stuff.
But my main project that I
could bite off what I wanted
is a series hoping to
improve, not hoping,
improving pops concerts.
Because symphony orchestras
have to bring in new audiences,
and there's a lot of
ways you can do it.
One of the models has been
the pops concert, where
they bring in a rock
musician or a pop musician,
and the orchestra
plays with them.
And they're riddled
with problems.
And they're systemic.
They're stubborn
embedded, easy answer
sort of solutions that
they've got going.
And they're not
getting anywhere.
And so what I've aimed
to do is almost create--
I have a group that's
willing to experiment.
I've got their budget.
And I've got all my
rowdy rock friends,
like Sara Bareilles,
who I can bring in,
and we can do pop
shows the way that I
think that should be
done, and creating
a manifesto as how you do that.
Because combining the two
is a technical nightmare.
It lies over a
cultural fault line
that we don't think
of that the pop
world and the orchestral
world, even in terms
of their contracts
and their language,
are almost just they're
just raring for a fight.
They really don't get along.
And so I felt like
there are enough
cultural divides these days
without having one be in music,
so maybe my job could be to
sew those things together.
And I think we've done a
lot of really good stuff.
The shows are working.
ALAN SEALES: Yeah,
they're on YouTube.
I watched a few.
And I also watched a
clip of you composing
a full orchestral piece
in under 10 minutes live.
Just like he rocks this
bitch in his concerts,
he rocked the bitch of
the orchestra, I guess.
BEN FOLDS: Yeah.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
ALAN SEALES: It was crazy.
What you read, you read
something from the program
about like, emergency
exits are to be
used in case of fire
only, or whatever
it was that were the lyrics.
BEN FOLDS: Yeah, yeah.
ALAN SEALES: That
was incredible.
Yeah.
OK, let's do a question here.
AUDIENCE: Hi.
I really, really
like your music.
BEN FOLDS: Thank you.
AUDIENCE: But your lyrics--
BEN FOLDS: Are terrible.
AUDIENCE: That's actually
what I'm going to ask.
I don't think they're
terrible, but I
wonder if they are you
always, or when they're not?
And when they are about you
and your life, is it true?
BEN FOLDS: It's either true,
or sometimes, it's not true.
ALAN SEALES: Next question.
BEN FOLDS: And but
it's always something
that I'm interested in.
I think when it comes
to lyrics, the things
that we notice that
are observations,
and when they're
observations, I feel
like if you follow those
really faithfully to when
they occur to you,
a picture forms
that it is a picture of you.
But if an event
occurs, and I'm going
to like I just did with
the "Washington Post"
piece, if something
happens and I'm
going to relay that
in song, your problem
is that just the real estate
for the syllables involved
is really limited.
You know?
Like you've got three minutes,
and you're expected to rhyme,
and you're expected for it to be
in iambic pentameter sometimes.
And the cadence is difficult.
So you have to cheat
with the lyric.
You know?
You have to do things that put
the listener in that place.
So I have a song
about my father dying.
He's still alive.
But the song isn't
necessarily about that,
but it's about the
feeling of that.
And it needed to
sound literal for me
to be able to extract
the abstract part of it.
So all that to say, there's
always something of me in it.
There's always something
that I'm very interested in
or want to say.
Probably, it is about myself.
But often, I'll make up
a complete false scenario
in order to get it across.
One thing I would
say is that I think
it's a fascinating
and really interesting
opportunity for a rock
lyricist, especially in the US.
Our culture here, we
expect our rock writers
to be singing the truth.
You know, if Bruce
Springsteen says something
about starting his car,
breaking up with his girlfriend,
going to the badlands,
whatever, you expect
there's some truth in it.
You know?
But if David Bowie sings
about going to Mars,
we can guess that that's
probably not true.
And the thing is
that in America, we
like our songwriters to
have credibility to what
it is that they've said.
And I love exploiting
that by saying
things that aren't true, but
sound like they could be true.
I like that.
Yeah.
ALAN SEALES: Question over here.
AUDIENCE: Hey, thank you
so much for coming today.
BEN FOLDS: Yeah.
AUDIENCE: My name is
actually also Ben,
so I've always felt
a special connection.
BEN FOLDS: Is it
spelled the same way?
AUDIENCE: Yeah.
So there's that saying
that good artists borrow,
and great artists steal.
And there's a lot of--
BEN FOLDS: I steal all the time.
AUDIENCE: There's
a lot of musicians
that get accused of theft or
rip offs, like Led Zeppelin
"Stairway to Heaven."
Do you think there's a concrete
distinction between what
constitutes a rip off,
what constitutes a remix,
and what is truly original work?
BEN FOLDS: Well,
there are certainly
a lot of musicologists
that the guys
that are brought in
to these lawsuits that
have parameters about it.
And at the risk of
sounding kind of rude,
because I don't
mean it like that,
but I literally don't care.
Because I've had people rip me
off before, and really close.
And I can safely say, I just
was flattered, that was all.
In one case, it was so close
where they had kept the key.
They kept some of the lyrics.
They had changed
certain important parts
and kept other really
distinct things.
This fellow was up
for a Grammy in Brazil
for record of the year.
I've never won anything
like that before.
So out of jealousy, I might have
been inclined to sue this guy,
like a lot of people
said I should.
But all I could think was,
one, I was really flattered.
And secondly, I kind
of felt bad for him
that he didn't have
any better ideas.
Because I think it is more fun
to steal from a lot of things
and try to get something
that's personal across.
That strikes me as empty
and sad that you do that.
But really, I don't mind.
I really don't mind.
I was listening to some
blues music the other day,
and it was one of those it was
like a kind of a Pandora style
station of some kind
that was just playing.
I guess it was on
satellite radio.
And I don't know.
I'm sitting there
waiting for my latte,
and I must have heard three
songs that started with, woke
up this morning.
Awesome.
Why is one thing
almost like all?
You have to say you
woke up this morning
in this same chord, same melody,
and everything, and I enjoy it.
I think it's totally fine.
People can rip off.
I mean, look, my lawyer
wouldn't agree with me,
but I don't mind for myself.
And I just think it's
about expressing yourself.
And if expressing
yourself uniquely,
oddly for some reason, would be
copying someone note for note
and changing one note, and that
particular note said something
really solid, I'm down.
I'm fine.
I don't like this
ownership stuff,
even though the ownership
stuff, obviously,
affects my livelihood.
So it's hard for me
to reconcile the two.
But no, I don't mind.
Like I don't see
any distinctions.
I think ripping off,
borrowing, it's all the same.
It's all music.
I'm fine with it.
AUDIENCE: All right.
Thank you so much.
BEN FOLDS: Thank you.
ALAN SEALES: But something that
I've always respected about you
actually is it's
never come across
to me as you've been doing
things just for the money.
It's because you love the arts.
You love music.
You love helping and educating.
So I--
BEN FOLDS: Thank you.
ALAN SEALES: --I
applaud you for that.
And I also want your
help with my song.
I thought, it starts with,
I thought about the Navy.
BEN FOLDS: Oh, yeah.
You've got it.
You've got it.
Put it in A flat.
ALAN SEALES: Yeah.
Question over here.
AUDIENCE: So "Lonely
Avenue," your collaboration
with Nick Hornby, I think is one
of the maybe greatest concept
albums of all time.
BEN FOLDS: Why, thank you.
AUDIENCE: Brilliantly executed,
and that bridging an author
and a musician into this thing.
So A, is there are going
to be a Lonely Avenue two?
It seems like
there's a whole lot
of stories he wants to tell.
And if there were another author
you were going to collaborate
with, who would that be?
BEN FOLDS: Well,
Neil Gaiman and I
have been talking about making
a record for a long time.
AUDIENCE: Yes.
Yes, do that.
Leave now and do that.
BEN FOLDS: It's good advice.
ALAN SEALES: It would sell.
BEN FOLDS: Yeah.
Two bits.
Yeah, I mean, Neil's
actually got a neat voice.
And Neil thought he might want
to be a rock star when he first
started out, when he
started out making
comic books or graphic pieces.
And that's where his
heart was, and he thought
he would be a rock star.
And his voice is, I
think, outstanding.
I love it.
So I would just
play piano for him.
We'd write the songs together.
I see him once a
year on average,
and we talk about how we're
going to make the record.
And this has been
about 10 of those now.
So we really do need to do it.
Thank you for reminding
me and encouraging me.
And as far as Nick Hornby,
it's the same with us.
We talk a lot about
making another thing.
I think that we felt
like the next step would
be to make a musical.
And so we've been
procrastinating
on that for some time.
But I think we're both scared.
Probably have, unfortunately,
have the same fear
of musicals, which is not good.
One of the two has
to be fearless,
but we're really both scared
to death of the genre, both
for how it could get out of
control and be like that.
You know?
Some people have control
over it, like I mean,
there's nothing at all
cheesy about Hamilton.
It's just brilliant.
And there are some that can
be big without the gestures.
But I don't think Nick and
I know enough about it.
Anyway, that's--
ALAN SEALES: You
need a creative team.
BEN FOLDS: We need
a creative team.
ALAN SEALES: Yeah,
I mean, that's
actually one of my final
questions for you was,
what's next?
And I know that Broadway has
been on and off your radar
for--
BEN FOLDS: A long time.
ALAN SEALES: --a
long, long time.
And you were originally asked--
I don't know if I'm
allowed to say this.
Sorry if I'm not--
to write the whole
score for SpongeBob.
BEN FOLDS: Yeah.
ALAN SEALES: "SpongeBob
SquarePants The Musical,"
which just recently closed.
That would've been a
completely different musical.
BEN FOLDS: I know.
ALAN SEALES: Why
did you not want
to get into that at the time?
BEN FOLDS: That was one of
many I've been approached with.
It looked, I mean, I like
SpongeBob and everything.
And those guys are they're hip.
They get it.
I don't know.
I mean, it has to
really be something
that resonates with me.
That's all.
I don't know.
I don't know what
it's going to take.
But it's something.
I mean, I've had lunch meetings
with them all since like 1997.
I've been thinking about
this for a long time.
And I think the longer it goes
and the more choices I get,
the less likely it
is I'll ever do it.
Because if I just walked
into town as a 20 something,
and I got any one of these
offers I've ever gotten,
I would put everything
into making that musical.
But then you're like,
that guy's pretty good.
And that one was pretty good.
And that was a great musical.
And I really like this one.
I don't know anymore.
I'm totally confused.
ALAN SEALES: You got
to find a producer
or set of producers that's going
to light a fire under your ass.
How many people here want
to see him write Broadway?
[CHEERS AND APPLAUSE]
Yeah?
Yeah.
So a couple people.
Couple people.
So we're running short on
time, so quick questions?
Yeah?
AUDIENCE: Yeah, I
think it's a quick one.
So I'm a big fan of the
show "You're the Worst,"
and in particular your
performance on the show.
And I'm just curious
how you ended up there,
and any sneak peeks
into the next season?
Are you alive?
BEN FOLDS: Has the last one
that we filmed come out?
Oh.
I did another one.
I'm sure they don't
mind me saying that.
I think it's towards
the end of the season.
And yeah, I still have
a pulse in this one.
And we've also talked
about if it ever
goes further, how close we
can get to me not being alive.
But for anyone
that doesn't know,
they just turned my
character into some guy
who moves straight from North
Carolina, where I'm really
from, to LA is very jealous that
Moby is recognized and I'm not.
And I'm just really
impressed with mixed drinks.
The weird thing about that
is just this sort of he
creates this weird little
world where, for some reason,
they don't have mixed
drinks in North Carolina.
I'm like, wow, you
can get alcohol here.
And I just drink everything.
Yeah.
This next one, we went crazy.
Yeah.
Yeah, it's fun.
Thanks for watching.
I enjoy it.
I had a kid the other day
ordering coffee, she goes,
are you the guy that plays
Ben Folds on you're the worst?
That's me.
It's the best way
to get recognized.
ALAN SEALES: Yeah?
Over here.
AUDIENCE: Another Ben over here.
Hello.
BEN FOLDS: Are you Ben?
AUDIENCE: I'm also a Ben.
I think most of your fans
are named Ben apparently.
BEN FOLDS: That's awesome.
AUDIENCE: I have two questions.
If the time is short, maybe you
can choose one or combine them
into one mega
answer of some sort.
One question is that you're
one of the few people who's
been on the radio
for the last 30 years
and knows lots of
chords and jazz chords
and knows how to drive
in reverse to a chorus.
How do you feel that pop
music has sort of left all
these different chords behind?
BEN FOLDS: Yeah.
AUDIENCE: With songs of one
repeating chord progression.
Number two, quite
different, I always
admired that when you sang, I
felt like it was actually you,
like your voice, a part of
you're talking but on notes.
How did you find
your singing voice?
BEN FOLDS: Well, thanks.
I think those are two
really neat points
about music in general.
The singing thing is
that I didn't think
I was going to be a singer.
I thought I would write
songs for other people.
So the bands that I
played in to begin with,
I made sure they had singers.
I always played
in various bands,
and one or two of
the guys in the band
would have great voices, and
they would do singery things.
They sang loudly.
They used vibrato.
They did little riffs and stuff.
And I thought that
would be a good thing.
I hear the song in my
head, and I think, oh,
if this has a great singer,
then that'll be a great thing.
But it wasn't that satisfying
to hear them do that.
I would make tapes for
them where I would say,
here's how the song goes.
And the song would
just be humbly speak
singing would be it.
And I think that the
recordings started
showing themselves to be a
lot more interesting than what
we were coming up with.
And so I would try to get
the singers to not sing,
to speak on pitches.
I also had a little
bit of a piano mentor
for about a year at school.
I wasn't majoring in piano.
But for one year before
this guy retired,
he gave me a full scholarship
to just study piano with him.
And most of the time,
we didn't study piano.
We just talked about music.
And he asked me if I'd
considered how great this guy
he had just heard.
He goes, I recently
heard a young man
by the name of Eric Clapton.
Have you heard of him?
Like, yeah, I've
heard of Eric Clapton.
And he said, he seems to me
to speak on pitches, which
is interesting, because it
gives more weight to the things
that he's singing about.
Why would a man like
that be singing at all
unless he had something to say?
And I thought that's
kind of interesting,
and I think that those things,
I adopted those things.
As far as chords go, I've
always loved harmony and chords.
And it can be its
own puzzle, you
know, the harmony and moving,
even moving key centers,
and they mean different things.
And I think that rock
and roll music has,
sort of like with the voice,
there can be an assumption
that someone who just plays one
chord must have more to say,
and that by distracting yourself
with the frivolity of trying
to drive yourself through
different key centers
and you're making music
into a Rubik's cube somehow,
or it's too much ornamentation.
I think Bob Dylan might have
had a lot to do with that.
In that, you hear
someone like Dylan,
the simplicity is
part of what's great.
He seems like he knows
what he's talking about.
And he sounds wise,
and almost sounds
like, I can't be bothered
with all these chords.
And I've got something to say.
I don't have time for
this little hobby.
And so by the time
I came through,
it was really not cool to
play any more than a couple
of chords, couple,
three chords, and this
was during the grunge period.
And so that's all I
needed to use more chords.
That kind of pissed me off.
I felt like, oh,
I'm not allowed?
All right, punk
rock, let's do this.
So I would just really
flex that part, because I
thought it was pretty.
And there's all
sorts of subversion.
And in the punk rock culture,
playing piano in itself
was offensive.
So we would play.
That's what we booked.
We just booked punk rock grunge
clubs during most of the '90s.
And I loved looking out and
playing jazz chords and like--
That's nice.
I enjoyed that.
ALAN SEALES: Cool.
All right, yeah?
Final quick question.
Then we get to
some performances.
AUDIENCE: All right.
So I was always interested
in how just creative a lot
of your music is.
And I'm a hobbyist composer.
And sometimes, I get stuck
into doing similar song
structures or similar chords.
So I was wondering if you
had any tips that maybe you
used to try and get yourself
to be more creative?
BEN FOLDS: Well, I don't think
that using the same structure
over and over again
necessarily has to do anything
with the creative part.
I think you can be really,
really creative within a really
confined sort of structure.
You could decide that you
were the guy who was AB guy,
and you were going to write
it all in the same key,
and that would be fine.
If you feel like that's
limiting you in some way,
then I don't know.
I think it's
important to remember
that a song is there
to communicate a thing,
and that it needn't
do anymore than that.
I think that can free you
up a lot in form and key
and everything, because the
necessity to communicate
the thing that you're coming
up with means that that drives.
That drives things.
You might have a cadence
where you thought you were
going to end on I don't know.
If you had gone--
[PIANO MUSIC]
And that was really similar.
It's just like that's all it is.
And then you get stuck in
something way too long.
There's something
complicated about that.
But the fact that you got stuck
in it so long says something
about how you were stuck in your
life, or your ideas, or the way
you felt about it, or that
you were scared to progress
in your life, or you were
scared of what's next,
or you just you were
high and you couldn't
remember the next chord.
Who knows what it might be.
But if always your--
that was really nothing.
I shouldn't even
have played that.
I think that's the first thing
is always, how do you feel?
How does this moment feel?
How can you get that across?
Then if you need more
vocabulary, you'll find it.
If you can't find the
word, it doesn't come out,
then that's when you
reach for the thesaurus.
You know?
You think about those things.
And I think the same is
true of song structure.
I always like to play
with song structure.
I like to question it too much.
So while I'm writing, it's
always a concern of mine
that it doesn't have
the same structure.
And a lot of times I find that
the effect that the song was
having on me emotionally
before I messed with it so much
was there.
And then I messed
with it and tried
to do something odd with it.
So what I do then
because I'm not
getting the chill at that point,
or I'm not hearing applause
in the back of my head
at the end of the song,
it's not doing the
thing, I go back
and I put it into a really
predictable song structure.
And I mean down to the point
where I'm timing the intro.
Because if the intro is not
falling between 12 and 15
seconds, then maybe I
should lay out the songs
so that it falls
at the right time.
For some reason, we want to
hear a chorus at one minute.
I don't know why.
But sometimes,
you want to hear--
so there are certain songs
that work so well, because they
start with the chorus.
And like I don't know, something
like "Dancing Queen" by Abba,
which that's a fun song, because
it starts with the bridge.
You can dance.
It's like the party
was just going.
And then the doors
open, and you're in it.
And there's something really
compelling about that.
That's when you mess with form.
Otherwise, I think the
form can be your friend.
That's as much as I-- that's
my whole upload on form there.
ALAN SEALES: That's great.
So yeah, well,
we're out of time.
We'll wrap it up, and then
give us a couple songs.
But when is your
book coming out?
Real quick, plug that.
BEN FOLDS: Yeah, right now,
I'm in the hell of editing it,
which I didn't really
think about that part.
It should come out in
September next year.
ALAN SEALES: Great.
Everyone, September
2019, but the book.
And then, we didn't
get into photography.
You're an amazing
photographer, which we
can see on benfolds.com online.
Get your music.
You're on Instagram up
here Murkan Pianist.
And then of course, we'll
keep an eye out for you
on the Broadway stage.
BEN FOLDS: Yeah.
ALAN SEALES: It's
going to happen, man.
BEN FOLDS: At some point.
ALAN SEALES: It's
going to happen.
BEN FOLDS: I'll make
one at some point.
ALAN SEALES: All right.
How do you want everyone to
ask you what songs to play?
Shout it out?
BEN FOLDS: Politely.
ALAN SEALES: Paper airplane.
[INTERPOSING VOICES]
BEN FOLDS: OK.
Those are the three.
ALAN SEALES: Oh, wait.
You got an actual
paper airplane.
BEN FOLDS: Oh.
ALAN SEALES: There you go.
BEN FOLDS: If it's something
I don't want to play,
then that's--
OK, all right.
Yeah, see, I did this whole
tour, the paper airplane
request tour, and I
found two distinct camps.
Well, maybe three.
They're either the
songs that everyone
knows that are the
most popular, which
makes sense for a
request, or there's
a type where they're trying
to fool me and find something
on the internet that
I wrote when I was 16.
And then, of course,
depending on where you play,
it's a lot of people
want to hear "Piano Man."
I still don't know that song.
OK, let's see here.
See, I'm trying to remember
what I was asked for.
OK, yeah.
OK, I know what the three were.
Yeah, all right.
So this one.
I hope I can do this.
I've just been editing
in my room all by myself.
I hadn't even had to talk
to people much less sit down
and play music.
So let's see what happens.
If it's no good, I'm sorry.
[BEN FOLDS SINGING "LANDED"]
[APPLAUSE]
Thank you.
There's something funny about
playing where no matter which
way I look, I see me.
It's like-- And then
right in front of me,
it's like there's a
screen of me now just
sort of mocking my looks.
All right, I'll try this one.
Two people asked for it.
One I would have
ignored, because I
don't play it that often.
And there's a middle
part, and I don't
know if I can remember it.
But we'll find out.
I always said, I hate
when I play with,
by the way, with musicians
who make disclaimers.
And I've made two of them.
So smack myself.
[BEN FOLDS SINGING "LULLABY"]
That's the part.
There we go.
[APPLAUSE]
Thank you.
That little riff, I
totally screwed up,
was something that I came
up with when I was about 13.
And I could do when I was 13.
My mother had
taken me to a piano
teacher, seemed like the
fun piano teacher in town.
He was a younger guy
who played rock music.
And she heard outside
the door as I showed him
how to do this riff for
half an hour, she fired him.
But it's funny, because
for anyone who plays piano,
it involves hitting the
same note several times
with the same finger.
But it's a-- god,
listen to that.
I can't do it.
[PIANO MUSIC]
That's what I was doing at 13.
OK, anyway.
All right, next.
Thank you.
And this one by request as well.
And I guess that's the
third and last one.
I'm not going to count the riff.
Kids, that's for free.
[BEN FOLDS SINGING "ARMY"]
Can you say fuck over this?
That's OK?
[BEN FOLDS SINGING "ARMY"]
[APPLAUSE]
Thank you very much.
Keep it going.
ALAN SEALES: Thank you.
BEN FOLDS: Thank you.
ALAN SEALES: That was wonderful.
BEN FOLDS: Thank you very much.
ALAN SEALES: So good.
BEN FOLDS: Thank you.
Thanks, y'all.
Thank you for listening.
And have a nice remainder
of your Wednesday.
It is Wednesday, isn't it?
ALAN SEALES: Yes.
