

### Frequently Asked Questions:

### Cults & Cult Leaders

### By

### Jesus (AJ Miller) &

### Mary Magdalene (Mary Luck)

### Session 2

Published by

Divine Truth, Australia at Smashwords

http://www.divinetruth.com/

Copyright 2016 Divine Truth

Smashwords Edition, License Notes

Thank you for downloading this ebook. You are welcome to share it with your friends. This book may be reproduced, copied and distributed. If you enjoyed this book, please return to Smashwords.com to discover other works by this author. Thank you for your support.

### This ebook is a collection of answers given by Jesus (AJ Miller) on the topic of cults and cult leaders. The answers were given in an interview with Mary Magdalene (Mary Luck), who posed frequently asked questions from members of the media and public, on 30th December 2012 in Wilkesdale, Queensland, Australia. In this session Jesus addresses the common accusations of Jesus and Mary having "followers" who do everything they are told to do by Jesus.

### Reminder From Jesus & Mary

### Jesus and Mary would like to remind you that any document produced by Divine Truth containing any information from Jesus, Mary or any other person includes only a portion of God's Truth that they have personally discovered.

### It does not and cannot contain the entire of God's Truth since God's Truth is infinite and humankind will forever continue to discover more of God's Truth as we progress in receiving more of God's Love.

### Please remember that due to these limitations information contained within this document may need to be revised in the future.

### Many other ebooks have been published by Divine Truth, including ebooks translated into a variety of different languages.

### Please visit <http://www.Smashwords.com/profile/view/DivineTruth> or www.divinetruth.com for further information.

### Additional sessions on the subject in this book can be found on www.Smashwords.com/profile/view/DivineTruth

### For more information go to:

Divine Truth (www.divinetruth.com)

Divine Truth Channel on YouTube (www.youtube.com/user/WizardShak)

Divine Truth FAQ Channel on YouTube (www.youtube.com/user/divinetruthfaq)

Table of Contents

1. Do you have any "followers"? If so how many?

2. Do you have any "members"? If so, how many?

3. Do you have a church or a congregation?

4. Do you recruit followers, members, or people to your cause?

5. Do you tell people what to do in their own lives?

6. Do you attempt to control people's minds?

7. Do you personally know all who attend or watch videos?

8. Do you force people through emotional processes?

9. Do you encourage people to remove themselves from families/society?

10. Do you tell people they will benefit from what you teach?

11. Do you attempt to create powerful emotional experiences?

12. The media claims you focus on emotions to control others, is this true?

13. Do you covertly attempt to control others?

14. Do you do things to force people into an emotional experience?

15. Do you emotionally threaten people in order to control them?

16. Have you ever told people they will "go to hell" if they do not follow what you teach?

17. Do you promise people success if they listen to you?

18. Do you have a slick, well rehearsed, public relations front?

19. Do you edit any of the presentations you place on YouTube?

20. Is everyone who comes to your seminars unhappy?

21. Do you promise happiness for those who follow what you teach?

22. Do you encourage or teach people to leave their families?

23. Do you encourage or teach people to come and live with you?

24. Do you encourage or teach people to come and live near you because it is safe?

25. Do you threaten people with a doomsday or Armageddon?

26. Do you teach that people will be "saved" if they listen to you?

27. Do you control people by using their fears to control them?

28. What do you do to help people feel less afraid?

29. Do you have power over people?

30. Do others feel that you have power over them?

31. Do you claim that people who come to seminars are better than others?

1. Do you have any "followers"? If so how many?

(Laughs) The question of followers: well, if you are asking if there are people who follow the teachings I teach, or attempt to follow the teachings I teach, then I'm sure there are. I don't know how many there are because I don't know how many people are attempting to follow the things that I teach. So, my feelings are - I don't keep track of anybody who listens to the Divine Truth - people can come along to the seminars, and come along to our website, listen to anything that we present in any of those forums and we're not interested in how many people are listening, we're not interested in what those people are doing in their personal lives. Obviously we just would like to share the Divine Truth with people in the world, and if lots and lots of people enjoy listening to the truth, then that's what we're attempting to do - hopefully give them the Truth that they can listen to and personally apply in their lives.

We feel that a lot of people do attempt to apply the Truth in their lives, but there are also a lot of people who come along to our seminars and I've seen them come along to our seminars for four years and I haven't really seen them change very much at all in that time. So I would assume that they are not applying the particular Truths that I'm teaching in their personal lives but Mary and I have very little to do in our day-to-day life with people who say they are following the Divine Truth material. I don't feel that anyone follows me: in fact, I don't want people to follow me in the sense of me telling them what to do, and then they do what I say.

I would like people to follow my example: if everyone in the world followed my example, I feel that we would have a very peaceful world, and we would also have some very happy people living in the world as well. So, in regard to the question of followers, I would love to have people follow my example, I would love to have people listen to the Divine Truth and follow the material in the sense of personally applying the material in their personal lives, and develop a personal relationship with God.

I definitely do not want people to listen to my words and follow my words without them having some kind of emotional, and feeling based, experience with God themselves. I would prefer to see that they have a personal experience with God, and then they work their way through the issues with God and with their neighbour, in terms of regard to the issues of a lack of love in their lives, and then they practice those particular things surrounding love. That's what I would like them to do.

2. Do you have any "members"? If so, how many?

Members? Well, I actually personally own the organisation called Divine Truth that I've set up as a legal entity so that I can trade, and so that I can have a website and other things and, the only member of that organisation is myself. I am the only Director, and I am the only shareholder of that organisation. We did have a God's Way of Love organisation, but that only had two members - that had Mary and myself - but very recently we closed down that organisation. I gave a talk recently in December of 2012 about closing down that organisation.

In terms of having members, in terms of some kind of church, or some kind of organisation other than what I've just stated, we have no church, there is no religion, and there is no organisation. So therefore there are not members, there are no persons who are coming along regularly to some kind of service, or some kind of church. I personally do not ever feel like that will be the case.

I feel that what will happen more and more is that people will listen to the Divine Truth, they'll decide for themselves whether they want to follow it in their personal lives or not, and as I keep teaching people, there is no need for them to go along to some kind of service or church, or be a member of some kind of organisation. And we're not creating any organisations with any membership. So, no, there are no members and I have no idea how many people are listening to the Divine Truth around the world.

3. Do you have a church or a congregation?

A congregation or a church? Well, no, I feel there are too many churches already on the planet - I think from the last count there are seven or eight thousand Christian religion churches on the planet of different denominations - I feel that it is totally unnecessary, I do not want to create another one. So no, there are no churches that I feel that I would want to individually support.

Mind you, I feel that I would like to support every church. I would like to bring the principles of Divine Truth to every church, to every organisation on the planet in fact: every political organisation, every religious organisation, every economic organisation, every business, all need to learn to practice the principles of Divine Truth if we really want to have a very happy planet.

So I feel there is no need for me to create another organisation of my own. Instead, what I would like to do is just continue sharing the Divine Truth that we've discovered, with the world and any persons in the world who would like to follow that, can follow that in any way they see fit. If they are members of a religion, then follow it in their religion if they would like to continue doing that. If they are members of a political party then do it with the political party that they are in. If they are members of some kind of business, then do it in the business - practice truth in their business.

That's the way we see Divine Truth sort of spreading throughout the world; not by Mary and myself creating another organisation, and another religious organisation.

We are often also asked whether we have prayer circles, or prayer meetings, and in fact people are often very confused when they come to one of my seminars because they expect me to pray over everybody before I begin, or things like that. Those kinds of things will never happen because I believe that prayer is an individual discussion between a person and God; it should not ever be imposed upon another person, I believe.

So I do not ever see myself in the future saying prayers on behalf of others, or prayers on behalf of a group. I will only continue to pray for myself as I encourage everybody else to do, and I will also continue to pray for other people, but not in a formalised group setting.

4. Do you recruit followers, members, or people to your cause?

(Laughter) No, well I know that's what I get accused of frequently, but there's nothing to recruit anybody to. All we do is share Divine Truth, share what we believe is God's Truth with the world - that's all we do, we don't do anything else. When other people accuse us of recruiting people, I can't see why the accusation even exists because we don't have any way of having a regular meeting with people - there are no regular groups, there's no regular congregation or organisation, there is no organisation to become a member of - so there's no way to recruit anybody to anything.

We do desire that people listen to the Divine Truth and if they desire to, to practice it in their personal lives, but we don't recruit people by marketing or advertising or any of that. All we do is present the truth to people who desire to hear it, that's all and if a person desires to hear it, and we have the time to share it, then we share it with the persons who desire to hear it.

All of the things that we do on the internet with regard to the Frequently Asked Questions channel and Divine Truth channel: it's all to do with sharing information with people. We feel that people then have the ability and intelligence to listen to that information if they so desire, and then decide to do something about the information if they also desire to do that. So we don't see that there's any need for us in fact to recruit anybody, to have some great big world-wide organisation, because at the end of the day we feel that if everybody applies the material we're teaching, everyone will have a personal relationship with God.

They'll automatically bring love into their lives, share love with others, share truth with others; without their needing to be some kind of background organisation to provide a motivation for doing so. In the future that will continue: we are not going to recruit anybody, there's nothing to recruit anybody to, and we have no desire to make sure we somehow attract lots and lots of different people to some kind of membership organisation.

5. Do you tell people what to do in their own lives?

(Laughter) Not at all - obviously a lot of people come to ask me what they should do in their own lives, and usually I tell them to go home and work it out for themselves because it's their life and I only have the right to determine what happens in my own life.

So my feelings are that if people understood my teachings about free will, and on the internet there are many videos now that I've placed connected with that question. In fact, quite recently we did an entire talk, and in fact I think it was two days of questions about free will. If people understood the points that we were making about free will, they would never come and ask me for advice about what to do in their own personal life.

What they would do instead, is that they would exercise their own free will in the manner that I've taught them to do and come to some kind of relationship with God so that they can discuss all of their questions with God and receive answers from God, and direction from God. And also direction from their Spirit friends and Guides who are in a developed place of love and get all of that information and collect all of that information, and then decide using their own will what they should do in their lives.

This is what I do in my personal life, and this is what I am trying to, or attempting to teach other people what to do with their personal lives. I do not encourage anybody going to one person to find out the answer to everything all the time. What Mary and I are attempting to do is, attempting to share Divine Truth with others so that people have a process by which they can interact with God and gain answers for themselves in their own personal life.

People need to learn how to use their own personal feelings, their own emotions, their own assessment, their own logic, their own intellect; putting together all of the information they have collected to make choices and decisions in their lives that are based around love and truth. That's what they need to learn to do, I need to learn to do that, and everyone on this planet I feel needs to learn to do that.

I do believe on this planet there's a great deal of emotion about uncertainty. Most people have a lot of unanswered questions in their lives and as a result, when they find somebody who they believe can answer most of their questions, they have a tendency to stop taking personal responsibility for their lives and go to that person for the questions to be answered every time. Now Mary and I, strongly resist doing this with people. The reason why is, because if we engage this process of telling people what to do in their personal lives, and falling into this trap I believe of informing people what we notice about their personal lives all the time, then what happens is the people then become dependent upon us. Which is the complete opposite thing of what we are trying to achieve.

What we are trying to achieve is a group of people who are independent from others, completely reliant on their relationship with God for truth, and completely in harmony with love in the manner in which they share, and act and live that truth in their personal lives. Now, to have people like that, we've got to wean them off any dependency and have them to be strong individuals with their own lives and with their own desires being permanently engaged, but being engaged in harmony with love and truth and humility. This is what we really want to achieve.

So any person who comes to us asking questions about their personal lives, needs to bear in mind that while they are asking me a question about their personal life, they are yet to grow up. When they are grown up, they will have a relationship with God and they will be asking God these questions about their personal lives and they will be trusting their own decisions, and also making their own mistakes with freedom and without fear.

I feel what happens a lot of times on the planet, is that people are so afraid to make a mistake, they finish up making "gurus" to tell them what they should do because they are afraid to be personally responsible for their own lives. This is something that Mary and I are completely against and we want instead to encourage people to develop a personal responsibility for their own lives, to enjoy their own lives - even enjoy the process of making mistakes because you learn a lot from making mistakes.

And engage this process with God, where they become reliant on God and not reliant on anyone else. The problem with reliance on other people is that other people cannot provide you with as much information as what God can provide you. So the real question is this: do you ask a person who is limited, such as Jesus, a question? Or do you ask somebody who is unlimited, such as God, the question?

My feelings are that I would ask God. That's what I do. I don't ask Jesus anything, I ask God a lot of questions and get the answers from God and that's what I'm trying to encourage everybody else to do as well. Of course this does not mean that I do not offer guidance at all to any person. If a person comes up to me asking for guidance, I will teach them the principles of Divine Truth that I have learnt, to the best of my ability. The problem though is that while I am speaking just words to them, all they are hearing is just words. Unless they have some kind of personal life experience with God, what I'm saying to them will barely make any sense to them anyway, and will barely help them to make any choices or decisions in their lives, until they engage this personal relationship with God. So I'm not against giving people advice, what I'm saying though is, that every time a person comes to ask for advice they are demonstrating that they would like to be reliant on me, rather than reliant on God first.

Now, I understand that sometimes they might have tried to get the answer sorted out with God, and they haven't found the answer for some reason, and I suggest that the reason why is because there's a complete lack of humility in their personal life. Because when a person is truly humble they get the answers from God very, very rapidly. So if a person's not receiving the answers from God they may come to me asking for an answer, but part of me sort of goes, "Well, if you're not humble enough to receive the answer from God, then I doubt whether you're going to be humble enough to receive the answer from me either." Bearing in mind that I'm just a person and God's much more powerful than I am. So again, I would like to encourage people to focus their attention and time with this relationship with God because that will provide them all of the answers necessary.

So the way in which I give advice, is that I give advice based on a set of principles and I do not tell them what they should do. But if they ask me, "Do you feel this is loving?" I would definitely say quite categorically when it is not loving, and why it is not loving, or what behaviour would be loving in comparison to what behaviour isn't loving. And this is why I teach a lot of principles based on illustrations, because I feel that illustrations of practical day-to-day living give us a lot of illustrations of how we are unloving on one side, and loving on the other side. And so quite frequently I will give people practical demonstrations through their own lives of how they've been unloving, and how they've been loving, but it is still up to them about what to choose to do with their own particular lives and with their own desires and with their own passions.

6. Do you attempt to control people's minds?

(Laughter) I feel the only way to control a person's mind is to really feed them with their addictions. So, what I see happening in the day-to-day life around me, is the television feeding the addictions of people, controlling their minds; I see the news industry feeding the addictions of people - often their fears controlling their minds. Now if sharing anything with a person is controlling their mind then I suppose you could say that's what I do, but I don't agree with that. What I feel quite strongly, is that sharing information with people is not controlling their minds. Controlling their minds is when you have a penalty associated with a person not following this particular information.

Now with regard to Divine Truth, there is no penalty upon a person if they do not follow the particular things that Mary and I teach. There are many people in our lives that do not follow anything to do with Divine Truth and yet we still spend time with them, we still see them during the day, we interact with them, and we still treat them with love, and respect and kindness. So we continuously interact with everyone around us based on the principles that we ourselves teach.

Now that is not controlling a person's life; controlling a person's life would be to actually tell them something, and then to tell them that something is going to be very bad if they don't do it. Or, even worse, to have some kind of emotional blackmail that you place upon the person if they do not follow what you teach. There is no emotional blackmail that we can place upon a person without being out of harmony with our own teachings. All we can do is share the truths with others and allow them to make their own choices and decisions freely, however they wish.

Now, if a person decides through their own personal choice to treat Mary or myself badly - and our definition of "badly" is that the person gets angry with us, or they get demanding with us, or they get needy with us, or they try to manoeuvre or push us around in our own life, or they try to manipulate us in some way - then we will just say to that person, "We don't want to have anything more to do with you until you're willing to change your behaviour." And if a person doesn't change their behaviour in twenty years then we won't see them for twenty years because we just don't want to spend our time with people with that kind of behaviour.

That is in our opinion, not manipulating a person; that is allowing ourselves to make a choice about who is going to share in our own life. So in answer to this question, I believe strongly that we need to allow people to have the freedom of their own choices, but, when their choice is out of harmony with love of ourselves, then we are allowed to say to that person, "We do not want you in our life anymore until you make a different choice."

That's how we act with people: now some people may call that mind control, I definitely do not call that mind control, I call that having a very strong viewpoint of what love is, and also a very strong consideration and respect for other people and their lives, but also just as much respect and consideration for myself and my own life.

I know that many people believe that hypnotism is a way of controlling other people. I do not subscribe to hypnotism, because I feel that hypnotism is a way of involving spirits in a person's life and I would never do that. So I do not agree with using hypnotism in any way except with the person them self knowing that they are actually allowing themselves to become open to spirit control. I personally do not agree with anybody allowing them selves to become open to more spirit control.

7. Do you personally know all who attend or watch videos?

**Mary:** Do you personally know the people who come to your seminars or who watch your YouTube videos?

Do I personally know them? Well, the very first time I meet them, no, I don't personally know them. It's like, we go and deliver seminars at new locations all around the world, and most of the time I've never met those persons before except when they come to my first seminar.

Now of course there are many people who come to lots of seminars because they like what they hear, and as a result of that over that period of time I get to know them a bit. Sometimes then, they invite us out to dinner, or we go out for a meal together, or we do something recreationally together so I get to know them a bit more, and sometimes they invite us around to their home, and sometimes we go \- not all the time because we can't go to everybody's home who invites us. So after a while we do get to know people who come along to our seminars, and sometimes because people have come along for many years, we obviously know them quite well as a result of that, but that is only the subsequent result of them coming to the first seminar, generally.

We generally do not know people who come to the first seminar they've ever been to, before they come. Most of the people who come to our seminars, we've never met before and we've never done any kind of pre-organisation, or some kind of pre-marketing to get that person to come to our seminar. So we have no real control over what happens with people, or people's lives, and we often get to know people through the process of sharing this Divine Truth that we're sharing with the world. Because we enjoy that so much and we enjoy most of the people we meet, we do finish up developing many friends as a result of having this Divine Truth available and giving Divine Truth to the world and sharing it in the manner in which we do.

So what's happened over a period of quite a number of years now is, we've had many new friendships develop as a result of firstly a person coming along to a seminar. Then as they progress and grow we find more and more that we finish up spending a bit of time with them if their desires and passions are very much along the lines of sharing Divine Truth with the world themselves, then often we spend more time with them as a result of that. And so we do get to know some of the people quite well and therefore become very good friends with them.

8. Do you force people through emotional processes?

**Mary:** Do you lock people away, put them through a "process" or remove them from general society in order to "help" them?

(Laughter) Do we lock people away? This is back to the "compound" idea I suppose, is it? Well, definitely not. Obviously myself and Mary live in a one bedroom home, which we are actually doing this recording in, and there's no area to lock anybody away in the home. And Mary and I sleep in a tent so it doesn't have a lock on it anyway, so there are no locks there. We live in an area here in Wilkesdale that is on forty acres, we have no fences.

There's no way to control what people do and to be honest we feel quite strongly that if you need to lock a person up or put them in a room just to get them to feel something, then there must be a lot of resistance in the person to feeling their own emotions. We would rather teach them how to desire to feel themselves, how to desire God, how to desire love, how to desire humility, how to want to learn, and just let them decide whether they want to do that themselves rather than try to force them through a process that we feel quite frequently is very counterproductive to their own progression towards God.

Obviously if any organisation or individual on this planet forces another person through some kind of process, they are automatically not working in harmony with the free will of the individual. It is far better to teach the person about how to use their free will correctly. Now the only time when I believe it is possible - or a person should be restricted - is when they are taking actions that are blatantly out of harmony with love and are violent in their nature.

Now I've discussed this quite a lot in the discussions that I did about the gift of free will - that are on the Divine Truth channel - and rather than go into all the circumstances in this particular answer, what I would like to do is to encourage people to watch that video about the gift of free will. There are times when we may desire to restrict somebody else in terms of what they do, and when I say "we", I mean we as a society may decide to restrict somebody because of what they are doing and the damage that they are wreaking violently on others.

However, I do not feel that it is wise to restrict anybody with regard to the expression of their emotions unless that person themselves is already being controlled by another entity. Let me clarify that: if the person is being obviously controlled by a spirit and defined by the medical profession today as psychotic in their behaviour, then it would be wise to restrict the person until you could somehow work out what's going on. I'm not suggesting to medicate them; I'm suggesting to work out what's actually going on inside the person that causes them to allow another being - albeit a spirit - to control them, and to help them work through the emotional issues as to why they allow this particular thing to happen. Why they give up their free will. I believe that is an essential part of their growth.

So, in answer to this question, I believe that it is not right to restrict a person's free will unless: one, they are acting violently and out of harmony with love towards society and other individuals. Under those circumstances, you would as a society, determine to restrict their will and re-educate them in some way through the use of their will, as to how to use their will in a more loving and more controlled manner.

The second way in which a person would perhaps need their will restricted is if they were becoming psychotic in their behaviour, obviously being influenced by spirits or other entities and that particular person would need assistance to break the chain, or the bond, between themselves and that particular spirit entity. Now I do not believe that exorcisms and other things that Christian religions promote help with those things.

There are very simple ways to remove people from the influence of other people, and particularly from the influence of spirits, and that is by simply sharing the truth with them and helping them take personal responsibility for their own lives. I feel that this can be done in a very non-violent and helpful manner, and loving manner. So I don't believe there are any times when a person should be restricted, or should be put in a room, or should be pushed into a process that they obviously do not want to engage, and that they do not want to engage before you begin.

Now have I ever personally restricted the will of another? Yes, I have personally restricted the will of another. For example, if a child comes up to me and hits me, the very first action I will take is I will hold their arms and legs and I will just continue holding them while telling them that it was wrong for them to hit me. I will continue to restrict that child for as long as it takes for that child to go through its rage and its anger, and all the other emotions as it gets to tears, and then I will let the restriction go. That is the only time that I have personally restricted anybody, and restricted anybody's behaviour. The reason why I do that is I'm trying to teach the child that certain behaviour, which is violent, is unloving and therefore unwelcome to anybody else in society, and a restriction placed upon the child is a way of informing the child that they cannot do this, or take this action in the future.

If I continue to hold the child while they go through their rage and other experiences, and they get to the point where they grieve about what they have done, then I know that they are now in the process of releasing the reason why they did it and therefore I can let the child go. That is the only time that I have personally restricted anybody on the planet.

### 9. Do you encourage people to remove themselves from families/society?

**Mary:** Do you encourage people to remove themselves from families or general society for the sake of their spiritual or personal development?

With regard to personal development, I feel it is very, very important that we do not restrict ourselves from society, or restrict ourselves from our life. There are times when we need privacy, and there are times when it's great to involve other people in our lives. I do believe that there are times when privacy is a requirement to actually develop love, truth and humility in our lives, but I feel that we need to learn to live our lives in the world.

In the first century I said quite clearly to people that you want to be no part of the world, but live in the world. The reason why this is so important is because when you are living in the world, the Law of Attraction works perfectly and brings to you events that allow you to see where you are out of harmony with love and truth, and allows you to work through these particular issues.

If you remove yourself from society, remove yourself from your family, remove yourself from the friends - unless you have very strong reasons for doing so, and I feel the only strong reason is that those society, family or friends are acting violently towards you. Aside from that there are very good reasons to engage your family, engage your friends and engage society in harmony with love and truth because you will learn a lot during that process.

In the process of learning you will learn what love is, you will learn what truth and the power of truth is, you will learn more humility, you will learn how to grow your soul. The world that we live in is like this great big playground reflecting back to ourselves our own condition, and so when we live in the world around us we have this beautiful ability to grow from the experiences that we have in the world around us.

This is what I feel that anybody who restricts themselves from the world around them is preventing. So I do not agree with people who become religious restricting themselves into their own religion, restricting themselves into their own faith, restricting themselves into a monastery, restricting themselves into some kind of protected enclave, some kind of "compound" or something like that, because all of these things do not allow God's Laws to act fluidly with the individual in helping the person change.

God put us in the world so that we live in the world itself, so that the world and every creature in it, and every person in it reflects back to us what's going on and helps us to grow. This is a beautiful thing that God has done and every time we close down or restrict our world, and we make our world smaller, we are actually restricting the potential for our own growth.

I feel it's very damaging to restrict the potential for your own growth and the reason why it's damaging is because it slows down your own progression. What you want if you want to be developed as an individual, and developed in love, and developed in truth, is you want to progress as rapidly as you can rather than slowing down in your progression.

I would encourage everybody to share with the world everything in their life, with one exception, and that is when the world or the people or individuals in the world become violent towards yourself, where they attempt to restrict your own will, then allow yourself to step away from those interactions. That's what personal love for your self would do.

Aside from that, spend time in the world, enjoy following your desires and passions in harmony with love in the world. You will learn the most if you do this, and you will learn the most rapidly as well if you continue to progress in this manner.

10. Do you tell people they will benefit from what you teach?

Yes, I definitely tell people they will benefit from what I teach. I have personally benefitted from everything that I have learnt from God, and I believe that if a person follows the principles of humility, love and truth, and receives God's Love - as I have done in my personal life - then I believe very strongly that they will benefit from what is taught.

Of course the personal benefit from what is taught will depend very much upon a person's willingness to practice it, rather than just listen to it. So what I find quite frequently is, lots of people feel very attracted to listen to Divine Truth, but not very attracted often to practicing the Divine Truth. The reality is, listening to it, while it may be beneficial in terms of allaying some of your fears and helping you understand some basic truths, it's not going to be beneficial very much to your life because your life choices are going to be dependent upon you acting upon truth, upon you acting upon love, upon you becoming a more humble person.

So, unless you practice the Divine Truth rather that just listening to it, you will not personally benefit from it. I have seen many people come along to the seminars for many years, listen to lots and lots of different parts of Divine Truth - but some of those people I've never seen them change the entire time that I've known them. Other people, I've heard them listen to one seminar and I've seen them change. That is because some people have a desire to put into practice the principles they are learning, and put into practice this relationship with God.

What I'm finding is a lot of people attracted to Divine Truth for lots of different reasons, but not many people are willing to put into practice this relationship with God and develop their personal relationship with God. That's the thing that I believe will have the greatest benefit to their personal life.

So what I would like to encourage people to do is yes, listen to the Divine Truth, listen to what we present, but don't just stop there, because if you listen without putting anything into practice, all of the listening is a waste of your time. You might as well go away and listen to something else, if that's the case. My suggestion is, if you're going to listen to Divine Truth, at least put a few of the basic principles into practice and experiment with it for a bit. At least do that because if you do that, then you will feel changes happen in your life and then it will personally benefit your life. I certainly promise to a person that it will personally benefit their life as long as they practice it sincerely.

There are a lot of "ifs" in there obviously: if they practice it sincerely, and if they take personal responsibility for their life, and if they become more humble, and if they receive Divine Love, and if they focus on more truth, it will definitely benefit their life. But if you just come along and listen and do none of those things then it won't have much benefit in your life at all.

11. Do you attempt to create powerful emotional experiences?

**Mary:** Do you attempt to create powerful emotional experiences for individuals, so they then feel indebted to you?

So I suppose in this question we would first have to define what a powerful emotional experience is. I believe that the majority of people are so shut down emotionally that they don't even know what a powerful emotional experience is. In fact, the majority of people when it comes to crying for five minutes for example, they feel that's too hard to do. The majority of people I've met in our seminars, just for them to cry for ten seconds is an overwhelming emotional experience. Now I feel that mankind's current definition of what is an overwhelming emotional experience is very, very limited. It's very limited because most people on the planet are attempting with all of their might, to avoid any emotional experience that might overwhelm them.

They only want to have good emotions, they want to be selective; they want to have emotions that are positive, they want all those to be overwhelming of course. But they do not understand that they also have a whole group of emotions that are negative - what they believe are negative such as fear, shame, sadness, grief, those kind of emotions - and they do not want to be overwhelmed by those emotions at any time.

Now I believe for a person to become a whole person they have to allow all emotion. They need to allow all of the positive emotional experiences, and allow them at times to overwhelm them, and they also need to allow all of the negative emotional experiences, and allow them to overwhelm them as well. Once they learn to expand emotionally, they won't be afraid of emotions.

They will also find clarity once they feel emotion. So I definitely do encourage people to feel their emotions, to get to a point of clarity about how they feel. Now if you're saying do I want to create that in my seminars, no, I don't. The reason why I don't want to create that in my seminars is because the seminars are not the best place for a person to feel their emotions.

The best place for a person to feel their emotions is in the privacy of their own location, or their own home, or their own protective environment; that's the best time for them to feel their true emotions. So what I would prefer people to do, is to feel their emotions fully - particularly all their negative emotions - to feel all their negative emotions fully in that environment. The more they do that, the less of those emotions they'll carry around with themselves in their day-to-day activity and in their day-to-day life, and as a result of that they'll have more emotionally positive experiences in their day-to-day activity and their day-to-day life.

I do not feel that society needs to be afraid of these so-called negative emotions; society does not need to be afraid of grief as much as it is; society does not need to be afraid of even the emotion of fear, or the emotion of shame. We do not need to be afraid of any of these emotions - because all of these emotions are a natural part of the human experience and as we allow their release from ourselves, we have less and less of them. So I encourage people to connect emotionally.

Now in my seminars I finish up stating truths to people about their personal lives. The reason why is that when a person asks me questions, they will often ask me a question about their personal life and so I will make a statement to them about their personal life. Now the statement of truth given to another person often causes that person to feel an emotion and as a result of that, in that particular moment, they are overwhelmed by the emotion of somebody stating the truth to them about their personal life.

That is what often does happen in my seminars, and that's why often people in the seminars finish up having a tear or two. Now I would call it having a tear or two, not being overwhelmed emotionally, because if they are truly going to allow themselves to feel the grief of their personal experience they will find they might need to cry for an hour or two about that particular thing that I've mentioned to them for a few minutes, rather than just having a few dribbles coming out of their eyes while I'm speaking to them about it.

I believe those people need to revisit what I've said to them, go home and feel the experience of what I've said to them and the reason why they need to do that is, if they feel the experience they will release the emotional memory of the experience from themselves and then they will feel more love, more truth, more secure, more safe. They'll have less grief and so forth; that's what I would encourage people to do, and that's what I do encourage people to do.

12. The media claims you focus on emotions to control others, is this true?

**Mary:** People in your group seem to have many emotional experiences. The media claims you do this in order to open up a person emotionally to your own control. Is this true?

It's interesting - that question - because I find the media very manipulative in regard to this question, because the media is constantly manipulating the fear of people in order to sell more magazines, sell more books, sell more TV space, sell more advertising space, and so forth. Yet at the same time they accuse me of being manipulative by stating the truth to people. Now I also see the media stating lies to people in order to manipulate the emotion of fear, and they are accusing me of manipulating people by stating the truth to people. I find this a very, very manipulative question actually on behalf of the media.

My feelings are this: if I was attempting to manipulate people's emotions by speaking lies to them, by threatening them, by blackmailing them - just as the media does - then I would definitely be a very manipulative person - just as the media very much are generally like. However I do not do that; what I do instead is that I speak the truth to people, and the truth does open people up emotionally. This is the important thing about truth is that it helps them work through issues of their own personal lives; this is a very, very important part of personal development. So, my focus in my seminars is to speak the truth to people. If the people have an emotional response to that truth, then that is their emotional response. I haven't attempted to manipulate that response. I do not need them to have an emotional response although often I know they will have one because I've stated the truth to them - a truth which they feel inside but which they have never allowed themselves to experience.

So quite frequently that happens during my seminars. This is very, very different than taking the media type of action, which is, to state a heap of lies or mistruths, or distortions of truth to people in order to manipulate their fear into doing something. That is definitely not what I agree with, and I definitely do not do that myself. The media itself believes that when people are open emotionally they are open to manipulation and control. I actually do not agree with this at all; I feel when a person is completely open emotionally - such as I am generally - you are completely unable to be controlled.

The only time you can be controlled is when you are trying to suppress certain emotions - if I can give an example of this: if I am trying to suppress fear, let's say I'm trying to suppress a certain fear that I'm afraid that my mother never loved me, let's say I'm afraid of that. Then every time somebody externally says to me, "Perhaps your mother didn't love you", or, "Your mum does love you", they can manipulate me in any direction. They can state one thing, or the other thing, and I can be manipulated because I am shutting down the emotion - my emotional experience.

Now if I've gone through my emotions and I've realised that my mum doesn't love me - for example, that she's shown me through years and years of activity, of hatred and other emotions she's projected at me, and the different ways in which she acted towards me all the way through my childhood, spanking me all the time, hitting me all the time, verbally abusing me all the time - and I would come to recognise that that's not love.

If I came to recognise that wasn't love, and I grieved that and let go of that grief, I can forgive my mother for her behaviour towards myself, and from that moment on, I am unable to be manipulated about my mother, because I know the truth. So I am unable to be manipulated by somebody saying, "Your mum really did love you", or, somebody saying, "Your mum really hated you." I can't be manipulated in either direction because I now know the truth because I've allowed myself to personally experience it.

Let's look at another example: let's say I had some fear in my life, let's say I was afraid of heights, just a simple fear of a physical thing. If I hold on to this fear then somebody can manipulate me with my fear of heights; they can manipulate my behaviour and my choices, and my decisions because I am afraid of heights. But if I let go of my fear of heights through an emotional process which will probably involve my parents, and other emotions, once I work my way through these particular emotions about my fear of heights, once I've released my fear of heights completely, nobody can manipulate me through my fear of heights.

They can put me on a high mountain and I won't be afraid. They can put me on the ground, I won't be afraid. They can stand me on a chair, I won't be afraid. They can take me on a plane, I won't be afraid, because I can no longer be manipulated by the fear, because the fear is now out of me. So the only time a person can truly manipulate me, is if I hold on to an emotion without feeling it and releasing it. That's the only time they can manipulate me.

Now the media manipulates people that way all the time. What they do is they encourage people to live in their fear rather than releasing their fears. They do this by stating a lot of things that are happening around us, to us, over and over again, telling us that we should be afraid. And I'm saying to people, "No, there's no such thing as 'should be' afraid. Once you release your fear you will not be afraid of anything." You won't even be afraid of death once you release your fear; you won't be afraid of being harmed once you release your fear. You will engage your life in a perfectly desirous and passionate manner because you are no longer afraid of all these external things happening.

So it is very different what the media are doing. What the media are doing is, they are manipulating the fear and trying to help the fear inside of people grow, while what I am trying to do is help people release their fear and have the fear inside of them get smaller, reduce in size, because I know that when it reduces in size, they will have a more happy, desire-full life. Which is very, very different to having a more fearful life.

13. Do you covertly attempt to control others?

(Laughter) I don't attempt to control others either covertly, or overtly. The main reason why is because any attempt to control another person is out of harmony with the principles of Divine Truth. So again, I would suggest people have a look at the material I gave on the gift of free will, and there are only a few times when you would actually attempt to control somebody in a physical sense, and I certainly don't engage in any of those types or forms of control anyway. My feeling is that most people are so afraid of being controlled, that most of the time they are controlled almost every day by things and events that they really don't understand about. The reason why is because they've got so much fear about being controlled.

A lot of people project all of this stuff about cults at me because they have just so much fear inside of themselves about being controlled. Now why does a person have fear inside of themselves about being controlled? It's primarily because when they grew up as a child, they were controlled most of the time and that's why now as an adult they have so much fear in them about being controlled. If they dealt with this fear, if they actually released the emotions relating to the fear of being controlled as a child, and that requires them going through their childhood and looking at the different experiences they had with either one, or both, of their parents that were controlling. Once they come out of that experience, they wouldn't have any fear of being controlled by anyone because they've realised that they have the ability to walk away at any time, they have the ability to move away at any time. And even if somebody puts you in prison they still can't control what you think, they still can't control what you desire, and they still can't control what you put as your highest priorities in your life.

So it's totally impossible for somebody to control another, particularly once we've released the fear of being controlled, from ourselves. So I would suggest that anybody who's accusing me of controlling others, probably needs to have a good look at the fear that they have regarding their own parents and the amount of control they received as a child.

**Mary:** You mentioned that when we have the fear of being controlled, we become controlled. How does that work?

Because we have the fear of being controlled, and we're unable to release that fear, we are now not able to recognise when we're being controlled or manipulated by our own fear. Any sensitive person around us who is also manipulative and what I would classify as unloving, will attempt to bribe us using our fear, or blackmail us using our fear. What I mean by that is, they bribe us by giving us the things that our fear dictates we need, such as safety. This is one way in which governments bribe us. They say, "We're doing this because we are making you feel safer." The reality is that they've just taken away half of your rights, like what happened in the USA when 9/11 occurred: a government enacted a whole legislation that took away the rights of people saying they were doing that because they were providing more safety. The reality is that is a method of control. You're basically saying to a person, "I'm making you safe by taking away your right to decide", and that's not a way to make a person feel safe at all.

**Mary:** And people didn't question that because they are so caught up in not experiencing their fear of being unsafe, that someone just has to say, "I'm making you safer", when in actual fact if they were in a situation where their civil rights would have protected them in the past, now they have less rights so they're less safe.

So actually they're less safe, they're less safe than they were before from a free will perspective, but they believe they're more safe, and it's the fear of the lack of safety that drove them to that point. So this is how it's very, very easy to manipulate a person once they're not releasing their fear, and they don't recognise they're living in this fear. It's very, very easy to manipulate a person after that.

Now a person who is loving won't do that; they won't manipulate your fear. What they will do instead is they will tell you, "You've got this fear, it's a fear you need to address and deal with." Now I certainly do that, I certainly tell people what fears they have, when I notice they have those fears, and I tell them, "This is the way to release that fear; once you release that fear you won't be governed by it anymore, you won't be manipulated by it anymore, people outside of you are not going to be able to control you with it anymore." And that's a place of freedom, not a place of control.

So I feel that a lot of people need to reappraise their assessment of how they view fear. Any person who says AJ is a person who is controlling, must have a lot of fear because as you know in my personal life, I don't control anybody, including yourself. So any person who has got that level of fear must have a lot of fear from their childhood that they're then imposing upon me.

**Mary:** And in actual fact what I observe is that you're teaching people how to release their fears, to move through their fears so they can actually never be controlled.

Exactly, and the problem for many is that some of them like being controlled, because it gives them the ability to not have to make a personal choice. In other words, they don't have to take as much responsibility for their life, and some people obviously don't like being controlled so they think that everybody is going to control them when nobody really is.

I find that even just making a statement of truth to people; some people believe that's controlling and it blows me away that they think that, but the reality is that they are not used to hearing any truth from anybody and when they do, they've always heard it in a manipulative way from their father or mother. So it's a bit like only telling somebody the truth when you want them to do something, or you want them to feel bad about yourself. I don't do that. I tell people the truth all the time and I don't have a motive for doing so, other than just to be loving towards them. So people need to reassess, I feel, their belief systems about fear, and their belief systems about control.

14. Do you do things to force people into an emotional experience?

Definitely not: all the times that I tell the truth to people, my motive is just to tell them the truth. I realise that telling somebody the truth does have the effect of emotionally opening them up. They emotionally connect with the truth generally, and as a result of that, if it's a truth that is a part of their life and has been a part of their life from their childhood that's unreleased, then there will always be some emotional experience as a result, come up. Now sometimes the emotional experience is anger, sometimes it's shame, sometimes it's guilt, and sometimes it's grief. It's preferable if it's grief because obviously you get closer to the actual emotion that you felt as a child, but often people have to go through the layers of emotion before they hit that place.

My only reason for telling a person the truth is because I can tell that is a truth they feel, and I'm voicing what they have always felt inside of themselves, but which they've never been able to feel free enough to express. Yet when they do express it, all of a sudden they connect emotionally and now they have an experience, and this experience helps them see what the truth is - the truth that they actually do believe about their life or about their personal experience.

**Mary:** But you never force people to have an experience in your company?

No, often I'm like a "dog with a bone" with the truth - definitely. I know the power of the truth; the truth sets you free, and I believe that with my whole being; the power of the truth is such that I would not ever avoid telling it. The issue is whether the person wants to receive it or not.

Now if a person is in my company I assume they want to receive the truth. If they are in my company and they don't want to receive the truth, then my suggestion is to leave my company. That's okay, I'm okay with that. I'm always going to say the truth when a person's in my company. Most people who know me well enough now know that if they are with me at any point in time and in my company at any point in time, then at some point in time I'm going to raise the truth with them about how they are acting, or how they have been, or what they feel, or what they're projecting at me, or whatever.

Obviously I do that because firstly, if they are projecting different emotions at me, or they are having different feelings about me that they're not voicing, and I'm sensitive to them, I want to say the truth about that. It's my right because I'm involved in their life in that moment to say that. I have the free will choice of course to suppress that as most people might choose to do, but I don't choose to do that generally because I know the power of the truth.

The power of the truth is always liberating, it always creates more freedom and that's why I'm so focussed on telling people the truth when they're in my company. If I know a person does not want to hear the truth then I won't generally share the truth with them. However, I probably also won't want to spend much time in their company. So quite often people wonder why we don't spend much time in certain people's company, well most of the time it's because of their resistance to the truth. For that reason I don't feel strongly attracted to spending the time with people who are very, very resistive or blocked to the truth, or get angry or needy about the truth.

I prefer to just have a truthful and open conversation with somebody who is frank and honest and open - as frank and honest and open with me as I am with them - and that allows us to get to know each other properly. It allows us to interact truthfully, but it also enables both of us to grow.

**Mary:** And you mentioned that you are firm for truth, but that's not necessarily eliciting an emotional response in them, would you say?

No, I am firm for truth whether they have an emotional response to it or not. I'm not trying to get an emotional response out of the person. I'm just firm for truth because I realise the power of the truth; I honour the power of the truth, I honour God's universe in that way. God's universe is all based around truth and love, and that's one way in which I honour that by actually stating the truth and being loving as I'm stating the truth with every person that I meet.

15. Do you emotionally threaten people in order to control them?

**Mary:** Do you attempt to emotionally threaten a person in order for them to do what you want?

Definitely not: I do not agree with emotional threats at all. I feel though that most people engage emotional threats almost every day, if not every hour or minute of their lives. If you think about the average interaction between a parent and a child, a lot of it is emotionally threatening in the sense that, the child's behaviour is being controlled by the parent either withdrawing or giving something depending upon what the child does, and that is an emotional threat. It's probably more specific to say that it's more like a combination of bribes and threats. I feel that this is how the majority of people interact with each other, they have a combination of bribes and threats.

So the bribe is, I won't raise the truth about you, if you don't raise the truth about me. That's a bribe. A threat is, I'll raise the truth about you in public unless you do something for me. That's a threat. So quite frequently you see a combination of bribes and threats are used in everybody's day-to-day life. I don't do that with people. You know that I don't do that with you at home, and I don't do that with people in my day-to-day interactions with people. I don't have a motivation of manipulating people; I have a motivation of just saying the truth and being myself while I'm there present in that particular situation. They are my only motivations and as a result of that, people often around me are confronted because I'm often not what they want me to be. I'm not what they like, often times, and I'm not responding to their desire for a bribe. So many times people want to be bribed: they want to have the interaction of, don't you say any truth to me, and I'll promise not to say any truth to you. They want that interaction because they are so afraid of the truth themselves.

So I don't engage in those kinds of behaviours at all. What I like to do with people is, I like to be open and frank and truthful about my own feelings, and open and frank and truthful about what I'm feeling from the other person, and if what I'm feeling from the other person is what I believe to be unloving or violent in its nature, then I don't want to spend any time with them. If what I'm feeling from the other person is enjoyable and pleasant to be with, and by the way the person can tell me the truth about myself because I'm perfectly able to receive it as everybody who is close to me knows. If they can tell me something about myself, I'm perfectly okay with that. I often find that people are not perfectly okay with even telling me that. So we have a lot of emotional investments I feel, as a society, in not sharing the truth with each other and we have a lot of emotional investments in maintaining a specific emotional status quo.

In other words, many people have an emotional investment of "don't make me cry": in other words, don't discuss anything with me that is relating to my past that will cause a tear to come up in my eye because then I might get overwhelmed with an emotion that I'll have to experience that I don't want to experience. A lot of people feel also "don't make me feel ashamed". For many people, just saying the truth about their life makes them feel ashamed because they did shameful things during their life - so they feel ashamed when you start speaking the truth about their life - I don't believe that is shaming them, I believe that is being truthful. If you had an emotion of judgement about what they've done, now that's shaming them. Yes, so my feelings are speaking the truth is important to every single person in my life, and if the person wants the truth then I'll enjoy their company a lot. If they don't want the truth then they'll obviously get angry with me, or resistive in some way and I won't want their company very much.

**Mary:** You were mentioning about manipulative, the accusation I suppose is often made that you're manipulative.

I don't feel it's often made, by the way.

**Mary:** No.

In the course of an entire year I might hear the accusation once, or twice.

**Mary:** Let's say it's consistently made by the media, say ninety percent of the media.

Right, it's consistently made by the media and a few of the attacking individuals who just don't like me.

**Mary:** Who are not the majority of people we know at all. But I just found it interesting that you are talking about this idea of manipulating people through bribery and threats, and that's actually from what you are saying, true manipulation. Why do you think it is that people find you stating the truth to be manipulative?

Well, I feel again that a lot of time it relates to their childhoods. Many times, the only time a child heard the truth was when the parent was trying to manipulate them to do something. So I find that very unfortunate that the underlying motivation of many parents to tell the truth, is only to manipulate the child into taking some course of action. Now of course if a person has grown up with that, they will automatically assume that anybody who is telling them the truth is wanting to manipulate them in some way and I find that very unfortunate. But that is a statement more about their own parents than it is about myself, so when a person accuses me of manipulating them just when I speak the truth, my instant knowing is that they have had a very manipulative childhood where their parents have attempted to manipulate them using the truth.

**Mary:** Yes, I suppose what I'm asking is, your stating the truth it's not manipulative?

No.

**Mary:** I see that. Why is it when the parents are stating the truth, it's a manipulation? What else is going on?

Well, manipulation depends upon the intent of the person: so if the intent of the individual is to create a different behaviour because of a statement of truth, then that is manipulation. I don't have an intent to change a person's behaviour or manipulate their behaviour with myself. I just have an intent to live in harmony with truth. So it depends very much upon the intent of the individual. If my intent in telling you the truth was to manipulate you by making you feel guilty, then of course I would be manipulating but I don't tell people the truth in order to make them feel guilty.

I tell the truth in order for a person to face up to the truth, and I help them emotionally through the process as well. So as you know, I've told you the truth many times and I've always stood there and helped you through the process of dealing with that truth as well. I didn't tell you that truth in order to make you feel worse about yourself. I just said, "No darling, this is the truth. This is what you did and you need to see what you've done before you can change."

This is the same intent that I have with everyone; many times parents don't have that intent. Their intent is to modify the behaviour of the child, and many people who tell the truth in the world today, have the intent of modifying the behaviour of the person. I don't agree with that intent, I don't have that intent.

I am hoping that a person will modify their own behaviour by hearing the truth, but only through that mechanism. Not because I'm trying to force them into shame, or guilt. In fact, if they feel shame or guilt, I try to assist them through those emotions - as you know - in order to help them alleviate their shame and guilt so that they can just focus on the truth of what happened.

16. Have you ever told people they will "go to hell" if they do not follow what you teach?

Like the Bible does? And I don't even know if the Bible really does, to be frank. I feel that there are many statements in the Bible which should indicate that's not true anyway. But, yes, most religions, particularly Christian religions do basically say that if you don't do what the Bible says then you will go to hell, and that you will be there forever. You will be in eternal torment in a location in which you are in extreme pain. I do not agree with that at all. I don't feel that anybody will go to hell for any action.

I believe often times we are already in hell because of the actions we have taken. When I say that what I mean is, the way God has constructed Her universe is that whenever I take an action that's out of harmony with love and truth, my soul already degrades in its condition and I already experience a hell of a sort. It begins often times with a sore conscience, but for those who don't have a sore conscience, it often happens that many external events occur showing them that the choices that they were making at that particular time are resulting in their own pain and suffering.

So I feel that the majority of people are already experiencing a hell of sorts, in the sense that they are experiencing the hell of their own unloving choices and the choices of others unloving behaviour forced upon them in their current life. I don't think you need to threaten anybody with that, I feel you need to alleviate people from the burden of that kind of thinking. The way you do that is by demonstrating to them that any behaviour they engage that is out of harmony with love and truth will result in breaking one of God's Laws which automatically has, let's call it a penalty, I would prefer to call it an operation.

It's a bit like the operation of gravity. If you break the Law of Gravity, you can't really break it in the sense of "break" the law itself, you can only attempt to not be governed by the law. So that if I'm standing on a very tall building, twenty stories high, and I attempt to not be governed by the Law of Gravity, I might step off the edge of it. The law is going to have its operation. Whether I agree with its operation or not is really immaterial, the law has its operation.

All of God's Laws are like that and God has laws that govern the soul, the morality, ethics and a lot of other things that people are not aware of, and if I help people become aware of these particular laws that God has, then they'll be able to choose whether they still want to attempt to "break" or attempt to not be governed by that law, or not.

Now my suggestion is that any attempt to not be governed by one of God's Laws is an exercise in futility that will always result in pain and suffering. So I believe pain and suffering are the direct result of our personal attempts, or the attempts of our environment, to not be governed by God's Laws that God has already set up. If I can help a person understand those laws, then I can help a person choose to be governed by the laws and that will result in more happiness. But I cannot force that upon them, that has to be a personal choice they make.

You think about it, you can't force a person to take a certain action except by being with them twenty four hours, by seven days a week, for their entire life and I certainly do not want to do that. I want to live my own life, I don't want to spend all of my life trying to govern billions of people's lives by being with them twenty four by seven, and telling them off every time they choose to do something personally against God's Laws and rewarding them every time they choose to do something in harmony with God's Laws.

Such a proposition is ludicrous and I would never consider doing it, and nor would any sane person, I believe. So my suggestion is that people need to understand that whenever there is pain and suffering in their lives, it is the direct result of a lack of harmony with God's Laws and therefore something they can personally choose to change. I don't know if I answered the question, did I?

**Mary:** The question was, if you have told people they are going to hell if they don't follow what you teach.

The brief answer to that of course is, "No", but many people do finish up going to "hell" as the statement says, but as a direct result of the choices they've already made, not of something they will make in the future necessarily. Obviously if they continue to make negative choices in the future, then they will go to places in the spirit world that reflect their condition. But one thing I must say in this question too though, is that hell is not a place that you can't get out of. Many people on Earth are in hell, in a certain period of their life, in a sense they have all tormented emotions over a certain period of their life, and then as they progress and work their way through that emotionally they get out of that state.

It's exactly the same after a person passes into the spirit world, they might be tormented initially by certain things they've done in their life and they will feel like they are in hell, but after a while they can get out of that state and be in more "heavenly" - shall we call them - places. More beautiful places where they're not in torment.

17. Do you promise people success if they listen to you?

Well, it's an interesting question because in a way if a person does follow the principles of Divine Love and Divine Truth in their personal life, now all of God's Laws are working in harmony with their choices. Now naturally that is going to result in a pretty positive life, a very happy, fulfilling and beautiful life. The problem though is that we live in a world that is very much against following or doing things in harmony with love, truth and humility, and there are many spirits who surround us on a day-to-day basis that also live out of harmony with love, truth and humility. As a result, those particular people will oppose what we do. So we can't guarantee while a person is on Earth - while the Earth conditions are as they currently are - that they will automatically result in more happiness, and more joy, and more fulfilment in their life if they follow the principles of Divine Truth.

Because when they follow the principles of Divine Truth there are other things in the world as it currently stands, that oppose those principles. They oppose the principles of free will, for example, they oppose the principles of love, they oppose the principles of honesty, they oppose lots of different principles that we are teaching. Now because of that you basically on Earth have this sort of separation, if you like, that occurs where those people who are practising principles of love, truth and humility, feel and can often be attacked by, the people who do not want to practise the principles of love, truth and humility. I put to everyone though, that if the people saying they are practising the principles of love, truth and humility, attack others, then they are not practising the principles of love, truth and humility.

But if a person is practising the principles of love, truth and humility that we teach, then they could have a positive life but that is now dependent upon how the people who are out of harmony with those principles wish to act towards them. So we cannot promise that a person is going to have a much more happy, fulfilled life because there is the potential of attack coming from another group of people when they follow the principles of love, truth and humility.

**Mary:** So, what is to be gained if people follow the teachings?

Well, immense things, immense things: firstly, you will learn the truth of the universe from God, you learn that you come to have a purely loving relationship with God, you receive Divine Love. As you receive Divine Love your soul is open to absorbing the truth of the universe, so you begin absorbing all of the truths of the universe. You have no fear - you get to a point in the future where there is no fear at all within you - so you no longer live by any fear at all.

You become at-one with God through this process, so now everything you choose to do is completely in harmony with love and truth. So there are just immense benefits from following the principles of love and truth. However, while you live in the world as it is currently, there is still the potential of you being attacked because of the choices that other people make. Now obviously the more people who make a choice for love and truth, the less people there will be who wish to attack, and there will also be less people who respond to a fear of attack.

And as a result of that the world can also change and eventually become a loving place too. So there are immense personal benefits. There are immense universal benefits in terms of the rest of your existence and infinite benefits for your life, but there are also the benefits of living how you live your life now and the potential benefit of the whole world changing as a result of your choices.

18. Do you have a slick, well rehearsed, public relations front?

(Laughter) Well, you've been with me now for what? Five years, haven't you darling? As you know, I'm pretty much identical in public as I am in private. So I wouldn't call that a slick, public relations front. If I've got a slick front, then it's always there all the time. I think though, and this is one of the reasons too why we don't edit the videos and we just put things on as they are, because we feel quite strongly that things should be presented exactly in the manner in which they occurred. We don't feel that truth is served by modification, or prettying up something. It is how it is; what happened, happened - warts and all, it happened.

And we feel even with ourselves - warts and all - we're happy to present ourselves truthfully to everyone, everyone in that process will see how we change as we grow in love, and as we grow in humility and truth, everyone will see how we change. When we change they will be able to say, "That's what he was like then, and that's what he's like now - ah, that's very different. And that's what she was like then, and that's what she's like now and that's very different." They will be able to make comparisons, and then they'll be able to see that what we are teaching actually works. If a person continually makes a "slick front" then you are getting a heavily modified version of what the person actually is. Now that's not good for the person because if the person really wanted to come into harmony with the principles of what we teach, they need to come face to face - like I often say in my presentations - like a mirror, it's like a mirror put in front of me that I can look at and come face to face with myself.

I need to come face to face with myself, so any time I desire to modify something, I'm not willing to come face to face with something in myself. So for example, if we did a video and then we found we didn't like this bit, and we didn't like that bit, they are all just things that we didn't want to come face to face with ourselves about. It's far better to come face to face with ourselves about all things if we truly want to grow, particularly if we want to grow towards God, because God sees ourselves as we truly are, He sees us clearly. We need to see ourselves clearly if we're ever going to become at-one with God. So I don't believe in a slick public relations front, I believe in everything being just as it is, warts and all. That's my way of dealing with all issues.

Maybe I can point out too there, that sometimes with Lena and Igor with editing the videos, we've had these kind of things. They say, "Oh, should we take that out?" I go, "No, no, leave that in, that's fine. Like, we can correct that later, or whatever, if it's an error." Rather than have it all nice and slick and polished. Because slick polish, doesn't allow the character to show through. It also doesn't allow the audience to determine progress over a period of time. All it does is, it's just a way of maintaining a facade, and I've done many talks about facade, maintaining facade. I've had a talk about "The Three Selves", and the "Facade Self", we've had a talk about the facade self and what it is and what it prevents us from doing. So, for us to then maintain a facade on any level would be completely hypocritical and out of harmony with our own teachings.

19. Do you edit any of the presentations you place on YouTube?

No, we don't edit the presentations we place on YouTube. We might trim off a bit of the superfluous comments at the front of the presentation, and at the end of the presentation where I'm talking about mundane things relating to the audience that's particularly there, and not to the world-wide audience. But the actual presentation itself is unedited all the way through. When I say unedited, the guys who are doing the video obviously need to turn everything into one video, from two cameras, or even three cameras, so that requires a process of switching, but we don't actually edit what happened. We don't cut bits out where we don't like what happened, or cut bits out where we said the wrong thing - that all stays in. The beauty of it staying in is it lets everybody see exactly what happened on the day.

Now if we need to correct something then we will come back later and we'll correct it by saying some more things and I feel that is the way that God also wishes us to be - anything that's happened in the past has happened - that's reality. We can't rewrite history, all we can do is correct it; if it was in error we can correct it, but we can't rewrite it. So my feelings are, I want an accurate record of history and if I need to correct it because I've learned something new, or I've become more developed in love, or I've learnt a new truth then I will correct it when I know that truth or I've become more developed in love to know that truth, I will correct it then, but not before then. Until that time it will remain indelibly etched as it is, and it will always remain as a record.

The beauty of that is that you have an accurate record of history. Unfortunately, the way mankind creates history on the earth is very interesting, because most of the time history is not even written accurately - it is written by the people who want to give a certain slant to the history, and then later on its written even more and some things are completely written out of history in fact, and new generations of people don't even know that they even occurred.

In the spirit world it is very different because every record of history is a complete and accurate record of history and often there are books with a comparison in the spirit world where they have a list of the things that people on Earth said happened, and then what actually happened next to it. That is a very interesting contrast.

On Earth everyone wants to maintain a facade; wants to usually present themselves to be better than they actually are; wants to present the actual event to be better than it was, and as a result of that, there's a heavy desire to edit. I don't have those desires. I want things to be exactly as they are and if I need to correct something in the future, something I've done wrong in the past, then I'll correct it. Aside from that, no, I'm not going to correct it until I recognise that it's actually wrong.

20. Is everyone who comes to your seminars unhappy?

(Laughs) Well, it seems to depend on what seminar, I would say the majority of people who come to the seminars are searching for truth: many of them are already quite happy, and quite open-minded, that's why they are willing to come along to one of the seminars. There are times when I say things in a seminar that causes them to feel about an emotional thing that happened in their childhood, or something that happened in their life and as a result they will have a cry. So they'll - in that moment - be unhappy. I feel this whole concept of happiness and unhappiness is very flawed as well on the planet, in the sense that we almost expect all of us to be happy all the time, and then when we're not happy all the time we think that something is wrong.

The reality is that many of us have had very harsh childhoods, harsh lives - and particularly if we've lived in the third world or some countries that don't have the same level of resources that we have in the western world - and we've had very difficult lives and we've got a lot to cry about actually. We've got a lot to release that we have been sad about, and we've never had the opportunity to emotionally process it. So I believe a lot of people are actually very unhappy. In fact I feel the majority of the world is very unhappy and afraid and they're even afraid of their unhappiness. If we release this unhappiness and this fear, then we have the potential to have a very happy world and very happy individual lives. But we're not going to be able to do it by making out that nothing bad happened, by making out that the past didn't happen. We're going to have to do it by facing up to our past, both as humanity, but also as individuals, and coming to terms with our past.

When we do that, then we have the potential of being happy, after we've experienced some unhappiness. I feel that when people come to the seminars they're often like any normal person - they are a person who is trying to be happy, but often quite unhappy inside of themselves. They are a person who believes they are loving when quite often they are quite unloving, and they are people who quite often think they know the truth, and then after a short discussion realise that maybe they don't know very much of the truth. I feel the majority of the world's population falls into those categories. I believe we don't have anything to fear from that. We only can learn from that.

**Mary:** Is everyone who comes to your seminars, happy?

(Laughs) Please refer to the discussion about everyone being unhappy.

**Mary:** Well maybe we don't need to record an answer if you like. We could leave it out.

This could be included in that answer, together I think, because the reality is that we all have the potential for extreme happiness; we also have the potential for extreme unhappiness. It all depends on how we choose to live our lives. If we choose to live our lives completely in harmony with love and truth and humility, and receive Divine Love, then there is a high likelihood of living in extreme happiness in our life. If we choose to live our lives out of harmony with God's Laws, out of harmony with love, not wanting to know the truth, denying the truth most of our life, not taking personal responsibility for our life, then we are choosing to live with a lot of pain and suffering. That is unfortunately the state of humanity - we are making these choices. Unfortunately the majority of us end up making choices based upon addiction, fear and other emotions, and as a result of that they are not choices based around love and truth so it can only result in pain and suffering.

I feel even pain and suffering itself, while in itself it hurts, it also is a way for us to pause and go, "Wow, I'm in a lot of pain and suffering. There must be something wrong with my life." So it actually causes us to get to a state of humility at some point. So I feel that happiness, extreme happiness is definitely possible. I also feel that extreme unhappiness is definitely possible, and it all depends on our choice. What we choose to do, the choices we make personally, as to what will be the result. Now obviously many people who come along to my seminars are the same range of people you would find in any normal day-to-day activity. As a result of that there are some that are happy, there are some that are unhappy, and there's a wide range in between.

**Mary:** So you are actually saying that the people who attend the seminars represent a cross section of society at the moment?

Yes, I feel they represent a cross section of society with one possible exception, and that is that they are open to a guy called Jesus saying some truths to them, which general society at this point in time is not open to receiving. So aside from that, they basically are very, very similar to any other person you would meet in society, they all come out of general society. They all come out of different experiences, there's a wide range of backgrounds, there's a wide range of socio-economic backgrounds, there's a wide range of cultural backgrounds in every person that we meet, that are attracted to Divine Truth.

The only difference between the majority coming at this point, and the average person, is they are not afraid to come along to a person who says he's Jesus telling them something in a seminar. That's the main difference, and in fact probably the only difference. But many of them also have a desire for truth and they are willing to try some things out that are sort of left of centre, or right of centre. Something that's not "normal", what they feel is not normal. Although when they come and receive the Divine Truth from a seminar they realise that I'm a very normal person speaking about very normal things, in a very clear manner and that is what often finishes up attracting people to have a longer term study of the Divine Truth.

21. Do you promise happiness for those who follow what you teach?

If a person sincerely follows exactly what I teach, they will become extremely happy – definitely; that is definitely the case. It depends upon them following, there's the great big "if". Many people who come to my seminars believe they are following the Divine teaching when they are not, they believe they know what I'm talking about, when I know they do not know, and this is the problem with terminology that we use. On Earth you have to have terminology to express things, you express things in a language. The problem with the expression of things in a language is that people assume they know what you are talking about, when they might not know the feeling involved of what you're talking about.

It's very, very hard to discuss things with people who believe they know what you're talking about when they don't really know and the only way they're really going to know is if they learn to practice the three primary principles of love, truth and humility, but particularly, humility. That is the biggest problem I see in terms of people who come to the seminars, the majority of them have nowhere near humility when it comes to an assessment of the truth of their own lives, and as a result of that they are not yet feeling what they actually feel and so they think they know what I'm talking about, when they're not yet experiencing it.

Once they experience it, then they will know; what I find for most people is that they realise that after a while. I think just recently you said to me, "Three years ago you told me that and I thought I understood, and now I get what that means." And many people have said that to me over my life, over the two thousand years of my life. Where they thought they knew what I was saying and then when they went through a personal emotional experience, they realised that the experience was what I was saying and I was trying to describe an experience to them that they themselves didn't really understand at the time.

22. Do you encourage or teach people to leave their families?

Well the only time I would encourage a person to leave their family, is if the family was acting in a violent or unloving manner towards the person. I would define an "unloving manner" as I've defined it in the talk that I gave about the gift of free will, and the way I've defined that is that any action, or words, or expressions, or manipulation that results in the family attempting to manipulate the free will of the individual. So the only time I would encourage a person to leave their family, and when I say "encourage" its probably not the right word, I would state to them that they would need to love themselves and leave their family. I wouldn't encourage them to, I wouldn't try to give them a carrot, to dangle it in front of them to show them a reason to.

All I would say to them is just, "Look, if your family is treating you badly, if they are attacking you, deriding you, being condescending to you, belittling you, and also becoming violent with you in their words or their actions, then that's the time to leave somebody." And if that's your family, then leave them; or if that's your partner, then leave them; if that's work, then leave it; if that's a business, then leave that. Anything in society that does that is out of harmony with love, so leave it. Other than that, stay with the situation and work your way through what issues there are. I feel a lot of people run away from situations with family, friends, work colleagues, businesses, and all those other things in life. They run away from them because they don't want to face something in their own selves emotionally that it brings up within them, and they then use the excuse that they are being attacked, or whatever when sometimes the people that are saying the truth to them are not attacking them, they are just saying the truth to them.

So I would take care if a person is considering leaving family, friends, relationships, businesses, work place environments, whatever. You would have to be very honest with yourself that you're not just resistive to hearing the truth, or whether you are actually having the feeling of attack coming from you where the other person is getting angry, condescending or belittling of you. That's a different thing altogether.

A person can tell you the truth without being condescending, without being belittling, without attacking, without yelling at you and verbally abusing you, or punching you, or doing worse violent things towards you. They can easily tell you the truth without all of those things. If they are saying to you that they are telling you the truth while they are doing all of those things, then that's the time to leave the situation because it's not loving to yourself.

23. Do you encourage or teach people to come and live with you?

(Laughs) Aside from you, no.

**Mary:** (Laughs) I wouldn't even say you encouraged me, you just invited me.

I invited you, yes. No, as you and I both feel, we love our privacy. Obviously because we share a lot with people, we do get very little private time and so we treasure our private time, and as a result of that we love our privacy. We definitely would never want to live with somebody else, aside from that other person being a child that we had. My feelings about living with other people is that often times, you've got to deal with their emotional projections and their unloving behaviour and so forth. But not only that, even if they were perfectly loving I would still love to spend private time with you and experience my life with you, and so I don't like to spend a lot of time with everybody all the time. I love sharing Divine Truth with people, I love it particularly when people want to hear it; if people don't want to hear it then I don't. Aside from that I love to spend time alone with yourself, or alone with myself, with God: either of those two things.

We have never encouraged anybody to come and live with us. We have sometimes suggested to people - when they've asked - that they can live with us for a short period of time, for a reason. My personal feeling is that most people, or all people, need to take personal responsibility for their living arrangements, which includes personal responsibility for their home, for their kitchen, for their welfare, for their life, for their food, for their clothes, for their shelter, and all of those other aspects of life. Sometimes we have visitors who come to stay with us, but oftentimes it's a very short period of time that we like to have visitors. I don't think we've had many visitors in the last three or four years that have been here any longer than one week or less, and we prefer it that way because we love to have our personal time together and we definitely would not ever have a "compound" where lots and lots of people live together. We would feel that to be a very strange living arrangement.

24. Do you encourage or teach people to come and live near you because it is safe?

I have never encouraged people to come and live with me for any reason, safety or not.

**Mary:** "Near" you, this question is.

Or near me, for any reason. Any person who has come to live near me - most of them have never discussed with me their desire to do so - they've often made the choice without any discussion with us and I think, with yourself, you would have preferred they hadn't in many cases come to live near us.

**Mary:** Oh, that's not ...

Not always the case.

**Mary:** No, and that's not anything personal about those people, I just had some fears about us not having our private space together.

Exactly, so the reality is that we've never encouraged people to come and live near us for any reason, and particularly not for the reason of trying to maintain safety. We've taught people over and over again that safety is not about location. Safety is about what's going on inside of yourself and what you attract. You will attract very unsafe events if you have high levels of fear inside of you, whether you think you're safe or not, and we've told this to people over and over again. Many people have come to live near us - I understand - because they wanted to share more with Divine Truth. I don't see how that's the case either because oftentimes we're not here. The only real way of sharing Divine Truth with us on more occasions is to be present at more of our seminars no matter where we are and that will probably mean travelling around in a similar way that we have been travelling around, which I suppose would then make somebody a "groupie". (Laughs)

Again we don't really encourage that either; we encourage people to feel about their own desires and passions in their life, and then to follow those desires and passions, with passion. We feel that will take them to many different places around the world like it's taken us, and it will take them into many different experiences which will be very enjoyable for them.

**Mary:** So from what you are saying, you don't feel that people need to live near us in order to experience more Divine Truth even?

No, not at all, in fact, what we often find is that the people who live near us get more attack from spirits because there are many spirits around us at times opposing Divine Truth, and often when people come to live near us they feel more feelings of attack from spirits when they come to live near us. That's often the case with seminars too. People have often commented when they come to a seminar that sometimes they feel attacked at the seminar by spirits, and that's because there are a lot of spirits wanting Divine Truth to not succeed on the planet, and as a result they will do anything to try to impede the success of Divine Truth on the planet.

So, yes, my feelings are, come and live near us if you want to, but make sure it's because it's a personal passion that you are fulfilling of doing something enjoyable in your own life that you wanted to do before you met us. Or, after you've heard Divine Truth, if you find that you want to share in the delivery of Divine Truth to the world, yes, we'd be happy to have as many people to help us in that process. We find that there are some who are very sincere in helping us with that process, and we love engaging those kinds of people, but obviously we're going to want the sincerity if we're going to engage that process. Quite often people want things from us when they come to live near us, and to be honest, you're not going to get anything from us if you come to live near us, any more than you'd get anything from us if you lived apart from us.

25. Do you threaten people with a doomsday or Armageddon?

**Mary:** Do you say, or have you ever said, that there is a doomsday or Armageddon? Do you threaten people with a doomsday or Armageddon?

No, there is no such thing as Armageddon or a doomsday. I believe, and I've been quite open about this, I believe quite strongly that there is no such thing as an Armageddon as the Bible states - the Bible states there is an Armageddon - I do not agree. There's no such thing as a doomsday which is taught in many religions, and also taught in a lot of New Age concepts. I don't agree with such teachings at all. I believe that there is the potential of future events that will probably be called cataclysmic on the planet, just like there have been in the past, events that have been cataclysmic on the planet.

However I don't see any big impact upon these events because any person who passes, passes into the spirit world. They have a continual existence and so I don't see their needing to be any threat of such events. We need to understand that we have a continuous life and therefore need to have nothing to fear aside from the choices we make. That's the only thing we've got to fear really, and even then I wouldn't say to fear. We just need to learn from the choices that cause this pain and suffering. I feel that the biggest doomsday there is, is the day you choose to stay in pain and suffering and many people are choosing to do that every day - choosing to stay in pain and suffering. Choosing to not release emotions that cause them to remain in pain and suffering, and I feel that that's a personal doomsday for each person really.

It's sad when I see people doing that because we have such potential to change and grow, and our potential to change and grow is infinite as human souls and this is something that we teach all the time. So when people choose to remain in pain and suffering, I feel that is a personal doom for them - but it's not a "doomsday". I feel people also refer to a judgement day and I believe that judgement day is every moment; like, every moment you're faced with choices and decisions. Some of those choices and decisions you make are out of harmony with love, and because they're out of harmony with love you will have the consequence that is painful as a result.

**Mary:** But are you saying that God is judging us?

No, God's Laws are in operation, remember I've stated in many discussions about God's Laws, and I suggest to people to look at the presentations about God's Laws, because God's Laws are always in operation. Like the Law of Gravity, it's always in operation. We have the choice to ignore it, to our detriment. It's the same with all of God's Moral Laws, it's the same with all of God's Spiritual Laws, and it's the same with all of God's Laws about love that operate upon the soul. We have a choice, to our detriment, to ignore the law if we so desire, but it will be to our detriment. It will lead to our own pain and suffering. So whenever I'm in pain and suffering I need to look at the choices that I've made, and reappraise the choices that I've made.

Once I've become at-one with God, even if other people attack me I still won't feel pain and suffering. In the first century, after I became at-one with God I didn't feel pain and suffering; before then I did, and before I was thirty years of age I had quite a lot of pain and suffering in my life in the first century, most of which was the result of other people. After I became at-one with God, even when other people treated me badly I no longer experienced pain and suffering. So I believe when you feel pain and suffering you have a great opportunity to be self reflective and to change and that is the primary way in which we experience either a lack of doom, or doom, in our lives.

I do feel though that physical events on the planet are still a potential of occurring even though 2012 has passed. I don't believe that God times anything. There are no dates in God's eternal existence. There are no special dates, special time; there are just experiences that occur as a result of choices that we make and I do believe still that on this planet mankind is still making many fear based choices. As a result of that a lot of violence is being perpetrated on the planet, but also not only violence towards humanity, but violence towards the Earth itself. As a result the Earth normally goes into corrective stances and so there is still the potential of these events occurring in the future, and in the near future I believe but that doesn't mean that there's a doomsday, or an Armageddon.

**Mary:** My next question is, do you threaten people with a doomsday or an Armageddon, and perhaps you could extend that to this idea do you threaten people with these cataclysmic, or potentially cataclysmic, events that you were talking about.

No, the only times I've discussed in the past things with people about so called "earth change events" and so forth, is when they have asked me the question. When a person asks me a question, whether I'm right or wrong, I will give the answer of what I feel at that time. That's what I do and as I grow and change my answers sometimes will change. Obviously there are some things that I'm remembering, and there are other things that I am learning and obviously with the things that I'm learning my responses will definitely change. With the things I'm remembering it's highly unlikely my responses will change because I've already gone through those processes emotionally, I've already come to recognise the truth about those particular things. So after two thousand years of life I have a memory of certain things and it's a wide variety of things, and those particular things I don't think I will change in the future very much.

But there are certain things that I don't have any knowledge of: one of those is the future, I don't know what choices people are going to make in the future. I don't know what effects those choices will have on the Earth, or their own lives. I'm not omniscient as God is. I don't have the ability to calculate all the potential occurrences or choices that a person may make, and work out what the conclusion will probably be. All I have the ability to do is the same as everyone else, and that is, to see the potentials of what we can potentially do in the future and I feel that the potential for the future is fantastic - on the Earth and in the spirit world. The potential on Earth is that within a hundred years we could have an Earth that is completely free of violence, completely free of war, completely free of weapons, completely free of everything. That's our potential if everyone used their intelligence, that would definitely be the outcome.

We also have the potential to have the completely opposite thing occur. Like in the fifties, and sixties, where there was the potential for nuclear holocaust - we have that potential. In the spirit world it's a bit different: we don't have the potential for a nuclear holocaust, but we do have the potential of staying in the so-called "hells" - the places where it's dark and dingy and unhappy, for much of our life if we choose to remain as we currently are. If we choose to change we've got the potential of actually having everyone in those locations, leave those locations; we've got the potential of not having any dimensions below the sixth dimension of the spirit world, have any people in them, because everyone's in a state of happiness - we have that potential. These are all the potentials, the reality is that every single moment of our lives we are making choices.

As soon as we make a choice, we're choosing a different life, we're choosing a different potential - that now becomes our reality. So we all have this ability to change our reality, to change what we actually experience, by making different choices. What I would like to see is people making different choices. I feel there's no need to threaten people with a future because God's Laws automatically correct them. Pain and suffering are the automatic result of living out of harmony with God's Laws, that's one of the truths we're sharing with people - and if we know that, then we know that pain and suffering is an indicator I've made the wrong choice. If I'm experiencing pain and suffering I've made the wrong choice, I need to make a change to my choices. Once I do that and I understand that principle, then I have a lot of power over my own life. I've got the ability to have a beautiful life after that.

That's our potential, and I don't believe there's any need to threaten people with any other potential. What there is a need to do is inspire people with that potential. I feel on this planet there is a definite lack of positive thinking, a definite lack of inspiration because most people are so disillusioned - cynical with life. They don't believe in any positive outcome anymore because their experience in their past is that there hasn't been one. And I'm saying, no, the experience of that past where there hasn't been a positive outcome is the result of your choices that are out of harmony with God's Laws - that's the reason why your past has been like that.

If you can offer people the potential of this inspirational potential that we can all grow, we can all become perfect, we can all become perfected in love and truth, we can all become at-one with God if we so desire. But even if we don't desire that, we still have the potential to live completely happy lives, as long as we acknowledge all of God's other laws and live in harmony with them, we will be without pain and suffering. That's our potential. There is a potential for no sickness, no harm, no violence, people living very, very long lives, and potentially forever on Earth if they wanted to. Even if they didn't want God there's this potential if they brought things into harmony with God's Laws but unfortunately most people don't understand that and so they keep choosing things out of harmony with God's Laws and as a result they choose pain and suffering.

26. Do you teach that people will be "saved" if they listen to you?

Let's define "saved", shall we? There is this concept in Christianity that somehow my blood saves people or my body saves people, or faith in me saves people. None of these things actually save anybody. What is going to save a person from pain and suffering - if we are looking at what is the term "saving" - what is going to save a person from pain and suffering is living in harmony with all of God's Laws of Love. That is going to save a person from pain and suffering. If I share what I know as God's Laws of Love and Truth, then I potentially am saving people by sharing that truth, but only by sharing the truth.

I could liken it to a person who is rowing in a boat, and there's a person drowning in the water, you can throw them a life raft of some kind, a life buoy, and in a way then you've saved them. You can pull them out of the water, then you've saved them but that doesn't mean that you're better than them, it just means that you were in a position to give something that they needed in order to get out of their current condition, that's all. So I do believe that if a person listens to the Divine Truth they have the ability to be saved from pain and suffering, they do. Of course they're going to have go through some pain and suffering because there's pain and suffering often stored in them emotionally before they feel "saved".

But secondly this talk about being "saved" I need to clarify more: and that is, I believe that we have the capacity of being turned into a new type of soul. I feel God made us one type of soul which I would call the soul of the natural man, or the natural woman, natural humankind. That soul has the capacity to grow without God to the point of happiness: to the point of living in the sixth dimension of the spirit world if they have passed, or in living in perfect happiness and peace here on earth. Everyone could have different ideas, and different concepts and everything but live in complete peace with each other under that condition. That's what I believe; I don't call that being "saved"; I call that being happy. To me being "saved" is becoming at-one with God: once you become at-one with God this infinite realm of possibilities becomes possible.

Everything that was before impossible, becomes possible and this process of becoming at-one with God is only available through God's process. No man, including myself, has designed the process, God designed it and we have to either engage it, or not engage it - that is our choice. It's like every other one of God's Laws, you either engage it, or you don't - that is your choice. The beauty of engaging this wonderful law, this law of Divine Love, is it can transform your soul into a new creature: one that is not bound by the finite controls of the original soul, and also by the finite laws that the original soul was constrained by and that's what I'm teaching. I call that truly being "saved", truly being "saved" is becoming born again into this loving arrangement with God where you are at-one with God, and every new thing comes to you in that state - this is the state that we're trying to describe to people.

So we have the capacity to be happy without having that state, but supreme or infinite happiness is not going to be possible without that state and that's what I'd encourage people to do. So I do believe that if people listen to that, they will be "saved", but not by anything that I have done for them, but rather by everything that God has done for them. God is the person who created these laws; God is the person who created, or gave Her own Love. She is the person who heals us. I can't do that. So I can't heal another person, God's Love heals the other person. The only way I can assist in the healing is by throwing the person the life buoy, by throwing the person the rope, if you like, that will pull them to that condition and I can only do that because God threw me the rope in the first instance.

27. Do you control people by using their fears to control them?

Definitely not, I feel this is what the media and politicians frequently do: what they do is they find things inside of people generally - where people feel unsafe - and then they manipulate the safety. They either cause them to feel more fear and then choose a certain action, or they bribe them with feeling less fear and so they choose a different type of action. I believe this is a very, very common form of manipulation because it's often a form of manipulation that most parents used with their own children in order to get the child to do a certain thing, or not do a certain thing. So often a child was threatened with punishment if they did the wrong thing, or they were given a bribe, a carrot or a stick if you like, if they do the right thing.

This is all a part of manipulation through fear, through our fears - I don't do that, I just state very clearly to a person, "You have this fear and you need to release it, you need to feel it to release it, you need to go through the feeling of it to release it", is what I say to them.

**Mary:** So in the situation you talked about with the parent earlier, you were saying a parent might threaten a child. Are you saying to invoke their fear, but that's different to what you were saying you do?

Yes, they might threaten a child with some future punishment, to invoke a certain fear in the child so the child goes ahead and does a certain thing that the parent wants them to do.

**Mary:** So, the child isn't feeling their fear in that situation?

Not at all, the child is experiencing the threat of a future fear and because the child is afraid of the parent already - because usually the parent has already hit them. The child has had demonstrated to it that the parent is capable of such behaviour. As a result of that the child will not engage the action that it would like to engage and parents have frequently used this as a form of manipulation of the child's behaviour. That's not what I'm doing when I'm talking about fear with people, when I'm talking about fear with people I'm trying to help people release their fear. I want them to not be governed by fear anymore so they have a clear mind and are able to make decisions, wise decisions, that are not governed by some unhealed emotional trauma from their childhood.

We often have huge unhealed emotional traumas from our childhood that cause us to fear things that we don't need to have any fear of: for example, how many people in Australia are afraid of snakes?

**Mary:** Very many.

Quite a lot, because snakes in Australia are poisonous. How many people have actually died from a snake bite in Australia?

**Mary:** A far smaller percentage than most people think.

I don't think there's even one a year. There are more people dying from shark attacks than there are from snake bites in Australia but there are more people probably afraid of snakes than sharks, because there's probably less people who go into the water. But the reality is that snakes are just this tiny little creature really. How many of them are as big as a human? Let's look at spiders. How many people are afraid of spiders? You know, there must be tens of thousands, hundreds of thousands. Whenever a person comes to Australia they generally are afraid of the spiders here. And yet, the spiders are tiny little creatures. It makes no logical sense to be afraid of them. Even if they are poisonous it makes no logical sense to be afraid of one, because it's quite easy to destroy it even - it makes no logical sense to be afraid of one, but lots of us are afraid.

Why are we afraid? because events happened in our childhood that caused us to be afraid and these events are still manipulating our lives, they are still controlling what we do. If a person releases these terrors and fears related to their childhood, and how their parents viewed these kinds of things, they will grow up without any fear. As a result they won't be afraid of snakes, spiders, or any other thing; they won't be afraid of death; they won't be afraid of lack; they won't be afraid of starving to death. They won't be afraid of any of these things, because they will have released the emotions that caused those fears - that's what we need to do. If we live in those fears we're going to be governed by them the rest of our existence, and that includes our existence in the spirit world. What we need to do is release the fears so we are no longer governed by them. Once we've released them, we now have the potential of embracing our real life without fear.

28. What do you do to help people feel less afraid?

Well, there's nothing I can do to help a person feel less afraid, except perhaps one thing, and that is to tell them the truth - the truth always overcomes fear. However, that is only going to happen if they are willing to release their fear by experiencing it. You cannot tell somebody the truth and they hold on to the experience of their own fear, and expect them to have less fear. The reality is that while they refuse to experience their fear, their fear will remain no matter how much truth you tell them. This is what I find happening a lot in our seminars. I am trying to encourage people to experience their fear, that's the reason why I talk about it, because I want to help them experience their fear, because I know that when they fully experience their fear, their fear will be gone and then they will be able to live a life completely in harmony with love and truth.

But the majority of people hear those words and then they try to be less afraid, without experiencing their fear, and that is impossible. So all I can do is share the truth with the person that they don't need to be so afraid of their fear, they need to experience their fear to release it, and they need to not be afraid of the experience of their fear, because it's just another emotion. If I can get across that particular truth, and people start to relieve themselves of their fears by experiencing them, then they'll no longer get angry, they'll no longer have fear or rage govern their life, and their life will change substantially - that's what I'm trying to encourage people to do.

29. Do you have power over people?

Well I believe that every single person on this planet has the potential of having power over another person. You could just say something and cause a change in another person's life. So yes, you do have power over another person's life if they allow that thing to have power over them.

**Mary:** So then, do you have power over them, or do they give you power over them?

Well it depends: sometimes it's worth giving somebody power to change your life, isn't it? Like, I've read many, many books in my past, and also listened to many, many people in my past through my last two thousand years that have changed my assessment of how things work, and changed my experimentation, my desire to experiment with something different. In a way, they've had a power over my life - I think that's wonderful because it's been a positive effect on my life - but I've chosen, through my free will choice, to take that action. It's different when you force something upon somebody: so what I'm suggesting is that when we choose to force something upon somebody - now we are way out of harmony with the use of our power \- the reality is that each of us has a huge amount of personal power. All of us have the personal power to change the world we live in - all of us have that personal amount of power.

It's how we use our power that matters: now if we use our power to attack people, denigrate people, pull them down, destroy them, make them feel worse about themselves, make them feel guilty, to violently abuse them, then we are using our power in a very destructive manner to both them, and ourselves. If we use our power to encourage, up-build, strengthen, give purpose, help people be self-responsible, now we're using our power in a very positive direction to help people in that positive direction of changing themselves and the world around them. That's the way I use my power, that's the way I'd encourage everybody else to use their power.

Unfortunately most people on the planet use their power for a mixture of things: sometimes up-building and encouraging, sometimes destructive and my suggestion is that every time you use your power in a destructive manner there will be pain and suffering for the person who you've used your power against and also for yourselves in the future. My suggestion is to not do that - I've learnt enough about life to not do that myself.

30. Do others feel that you have power over them?

Sometimes I feel other people do believe I have power over them; I feel one reason why they believe that is because I know a lot of things about people because I can feel the truth of what their life has been. What happens when I'm interacting with a person is I often feel a record of their life, right the way through their life; the choices they have made, but also what has been perpetrated against them as well. So I often can feel those particular things from the person. Now sometimes other people can feel that I can feel that, and then they become quite frightened and the reason why they become quite frightened is that they worry about how I'm going to use that information. But I can't use that information in an unloving manner without breaking my own ethics, and without breaking my own relationship with God.

So my suggestion to people is that they have no need to fear me at all - even if I know lots of things about them that nobody else knows - there's no need to fear me. There is also no need to fear me for any other reason. Like, all I want to do is share truth with the world; that's all I want to do. That's my primary motivation, and there's nothing to fear with that except if you want to hold on to an error, then perhaps there are some things to fear. I feel there are many organisations and institutions, and people on this planet, who are afraid of the average person having more knowledge of truth. There are many institutions, and governments, and people on the planet, and religions on the planet, who do not want the members of their particular government, religion or institution, knowing more about truth.

This has always historically been the case: the Catholic Church during the Dark Ages refused to translate the Bible for example into different languages that the average person could read. For this one reason: because they didn't want the average person to find out what the Bible actually said about certain things. It's a way of controlling people and my feelings are sharing the truth with people is a way of freeing people.

If you withhold the truth from people then you are being controlling; so when you withhold the truth from your friend that her husband is cheating on her, you're controlling your friend's behaviour - you're not giving her the freedom to make a choice, because she believes something completely different. When you control people's behaviour like that, then you are certainly not in harmony with love, or in harmony with truth and there are always going to be negative consequences. Sooner or later the person is going to find out the truth, sooner or later they're going to realise that you didn't tell them the truth, sooner or later they're going to be hurt by that. The beauty of the truth is that people know straight away what they're getting and they know straight away what is happening, no matter how bad it is, and this is something that is a loving thing to do for people.

31. Do you claim that people who come to seminars are better than others?

**Mary:** Do you claim that the group of people who come to your seminars are better than others, and will have a better life than others?

(Laughs) I feel actually that many people who come to my seminars are sometimes worse than others, in the sense that they sometimes get a bit self righteous and judgemental of others, and that automatically makes them worse than other people who are not judgemental or self righteous. So it depends a bit on the person's attitude. I feel that the people who come to my seminars are as I have stated many times, the same as the average person on Earth with probably one or two exceptions: one exception is that they are willing to come to a seminar where a guy called "Jesus" is speaking. Which indicates a certain degree of emotional openness and also an open mind, perhaps more open minded that the majority of people.

The second thing that attracts most people to my seminars is a desire for truth because that's all they get every time they come; they don't get somebody feeding them a heap of addictions, they don't get somebody making them feel better about themselves, or making them feel worse about themselves - they just get somebody telling them the truth. Some of those people who come are very attracted to that and I believe that's a beautiful trait actually, that's something that I'm attracted to in people and I believe that I can understand why other people are attracted to the seminars for that reason.

I do not believe that makes them better than others. In fact, in many cases some of the people who come to the seminars have lived very bad lives in the sense of immoral and unethical lives, and they will have many things to work their way through if they want to have a relationship with God. In fact many of them will have many more things to work their way through than the average person on the planet, because of the way in which they have treated other people but as was said about me in the first century, "the sinners come to share with me." Why that was said, is because I don't judge people for what they have done in the past, so many people feel attracted to that - I state truthfully what they've done without judging them.

**Mary:** See, earlier you said that people are worse. I didn't expect you to say anyone is better or worse, so perhaps isn't that a judgement?

If I can clarify what I mean by "worse": I mean that they have been more unloving in their past than the average person, so many of the people who come along to the seminars have been more unloving in the past than the average person has been. This is one reason why they come, because they're in so much pain and suffering that they want relief for it and they want to find out how to get out of this pain and suffering. That's one of their motivations for coming. So this is why many so-called "sinners" were attracted to me in the first century, for the same reason. They had pain and suffering in their personal lives which was an indication that in their past, they had made choices that were "worse" if you like, or more out of harmony with love than the average person's choices. But I don't judge that - all I do is help them change by giving them the truths that I've learnt myself.

**Mary:** And I suppose the question is driving it to two important issues. Do you claim that the people who come to your seminars are better than others? So, now that they've come, even if they've had a life that you might regard as sinful, would you call them better people than the average person now?

No, I feel the mark of whether somebody is becoming better in their life, and I think it's more a personal comparison than a comparison with another person, is how more humble you're becoming about your life and how more truthful you're becoming about your life. I've seen many people come to my seminars for many years who are not an ounce more truthful or humble than when I first met them, and I feel that's quite sad but it is a statement of truth. I also see some who have come to the seminars who've changed immensely since I've known them, they've become much more humble, and much more truthful in their lives, so I feel they've definitely changed for the better in their personal comparison with themselves.

I don't feel a feeling of judgement towards them, I just feel it's a shame that a person would come for three years and listen to forty or fifty seminars and not change. That's an indication of quite a lot of resistance inside of them, and also quite a lot of addiction. I also find it immensely beautiful to watch a person change just by coming to one seminar: I think that's amazing and whenever a person does that I think it's just wonderful because their life changes before their eyes almost - it can change so rapidly. So I find either state, is an indication of some truth about an individual.

**Mary:** Yes, and I suppose the question is asking do you feel you're creating an elite group of people?

Definitely not, if a person followed my teachings they would never believe themselves to be elite: they will always believe themselves to be a part of humanity, and a brother and sister of any other person who is on the Earth. They would also have more compassion for other people because they would realise what they themselves have had to go through in order to become better people. So when you've had to personally go through traumatic painful experiences in order to become a better person, you are usually much more humble about other people and the traumatic experiences they face in order to become a better person. You don't judge them, you judge them far less than you would have before then.

So my suggestion is if anybody who's coming to my teachings is judging other people, then they are definitely not in harmony with my teachings, they're definitely not in harmony with the reception of God's Love, they're definitely never going to become at-one with God in that state.

**Mary:** So, are you saying that if they believe they are better than other people, whether they're coming to the seminars also, or people in society, then they're ...

They're already more unloving than the average person if they believe themselves to be better than the average person, and to be more worthy than the average person, then they themselves are already in a worse condition of love than the average person. Their judgement is causing them to be in such a condition.

Judgement is a huge problem in religion - in all sorts of ways of life, but particularly in religious practice on this planet - because what happens for most people who learn a certain type of religious practice, is they start judging all the other people who don't practice it.

A person who truly practices the principles of Divine Truth that I've taught for two thousand years, will never fall into that trap - I've stated over and over both in the first century and in this life, that anybody who judges another - and remember judgement is an emotion projected towards the other person that they are less than, or more unworthy than, yourself - anybody who has that particular emotion towards another person is already severely out of harmony with love, and as I said in the first century, it would have been better if a noose was tied around their neck and they threw themselves into the sea, than undertook such a decision to judge another person, because that's what's happening to their soul. Their soul is severely degrading in its condition as they judge.

A person who is truly practicing the principles that I teach will not judge another, they will support others in their choices and decisions, but they will speak the truth, they will be loving under all circumstances. They will often remove themselves from people who are attacking them, and that is fine - that's not a judgement, that's just a feeling of love towards oneself. A true person who is practising these principles will not feel themselves to be better than any other person on this planet.

I don't feel myself to be better than any other person on this planet. One of the main reasons why people get all shocked when they hear me say that I'm Jesus, is because they believe I am saying that I'm better than them. I am not saying that at all, I'm saying I am Jesus, - but I'm not better than you - that's what I'm saying.

