on
London real we like to push the [envelope] on pSYchedelics
We went in and we drank ayahuasca on and it was the real deal
Ayahuasca requires us to confront the truth about ourselves
The psychedelic experience is one of the most
clearly the most influential profound experiences of human existence
Now we explore
dimethyltryptamine
Pure DmT powder and
Smoke that and this just I mean this is [just] a direct route straight to the spirit world
How would we change this culture and it felt to me like LSD and pSychedelics were the way?
London real Presents DmT before and after
Let's do this
Class will never be [the] same again
Mmm, all right here we go
Welcome to a very special edition of London real. I am here with Mr.. Alexander [ward] who you would have seen?
Originally about a year ago
Was episode called the chosen one when he talked about ayahuasca documentary and he was most recently guest host when we had Dr.
Robin Carhartt Harris, and he was a he's a doctor
who's doing MrI studies on the effects of scylla Simon mushrooms and on MDMa in the brain and
Today Alex and I are going to explore
dimethyltryptamine
Also known as DmT and the spirit molecule. Yeah, that's often a nickname
it's been associated with the spirit mall can I right indeed okay, and
Dr.. Carhart, Harris said that
The chemical difference between scylla Simon and DmT they were very very similar chemicals
I believe yeah, yeah, Incredibly similar
And I think [that] can be attested to with people who have had kind of first-hand experience between these
Various different psychedelics that there is a huge overlap, and you know many people report just how many the exact same
Experiences, but right even with you psychedelic and DmT is the active component in ayahuasca. Yeah, that is many
what is responsible for the kind of amazing experiences people go through with the ayahuasca the main component of that is the DMT and
Yeah, you can get the extracted
Synthesized form of DmT which is what we're here to talk about right, so we are going to do something
Maybe a little controversial today is something alexander. I have talked about for a couple months and something that we are going to do today
We are going to discuss
the the Basics of dimethyltryptamine and then alexander
And I are going to make a quick plane trip to the continent where we will smoke DmT my first time alex has done this
Four or five times all right then we're going to come back to London and later tonight
We're going to plug in and give you our experiences I
Really don't know what to expect. I am a little nervous
How are you feeling?
I'm okay with it. I think
Anyone who goes through this they can not stop their hands from shaking
Know if they go into a DMT experience because it is such a great unknown
And it's a perfectly natural to be quite intimidated by the experience yeah
I think Terrence McKenna said that there's a reason that when people go and take pSychedelics
Sit there they have fear and he said you don't see a lot of people that are going to meditate when their knees [are] not
That's writing because and I say to people often times when they're Gonna go into their first ayahuasca ceremonia
I say you should be scared because
There are a lot of unknown things that you're probably going to confront so I think it's a healthy thing
Either especially with the psychedelics you're forced to deal with things that are quite
Very very deep within you and I think in a certain sense people notice about themselves
there's kind of hiding some things about them and
Through the psychedelic experience everything in the unconscious is just brought right up into the conscious and your fortune
Forced to deal with certain things about yourself that you may not be looking forward to yeah
And so for the next half hour alex, and I'm going to talk about
About DmT because I know a lot of people hearing that we are going to go and smoke some
controlled substance in order to you know have a
15 minute Mental experience are going to look at it as a narcotic and and we are here to discuss
Why we believe it's not it's actually something called an entheogen or things that are actually going to improve your life
And I'll talk a little bit more a little bit later about
That we also as much as I dislike the fact that this this is an illegal thing to do in the uk I do respect
the laws in the Country
I live in we both do so we are going to be traveling somewhere else to do this
And we also don't necessarily recommend you do this yourself without doing some research, but um before we get into that
I was wondering Alex could you tell us a little bit of a
Little bit more about DmT and the relationship that DmT in ayahuasca have
Sure, I mean the the foot the reason why I started to look into the actual extract of DMT was I was trying to look
for similarities between the Ayahuasca experience and DmT and
Not only did I find it I came into the exact same states of mind, but I actually
Continued on with a unresolved ayahuasca experience that I had in the jungle about a few months prior, okay?
So was it you basically had an ayahuasca experience three months later. You smoked DmT and you went into that ayahuasca experience. Yeah
You know I did go through this ayahuasca experience, and I talked about it when I was on London real ones
But there was this instance with the ayahuasca where I'm surrounded by these kind of bum
Shamanic entities some some sort this is all within my n around
This is not actually in the external reality
But in this vision with the ayahuasca these shamanic ladies that kind of dip in this cup into me
And what they're [doing] is they're observe in this essence of me
that's made up of all my past experiences, and it's kind of this sum total of kind of who I am and
Within this they were just kind of observing it, but during one kind of [a] dip into this essence
they kind of noticed that there was this kind of darkness within it and
we never really got any kind of conclusion about what that was, but it certainly affected my own in a world and
When I went through the DMT experience with the smoked
extract
It was kind of a continuation of that same experience. I was surrounded by the same entities and they were saying you know really gotta
try and figure out what this is in new and
so we're gonna trying to go [in] [to] really find out what this kind of darkness was to me and
it had certain things to do with a kind of
self-Doubt man self-doubt mentalities which can often lead to kind of a sort of self-hatred and
so we're trying to pull that out because we do all have these kind of inner dimensions to us and
Demons do yeah, you know when people encounter demons. They are visual manifestations of
Negative emotions, they hold within themselves because we all hold kind of certain emotions within us
and when we kind of keep hold of those negative emotions and going to run riot and
through the Ayahuasca you get this kind of visual representation of
Those are I think well a lot of the the public whose isn't informed or educated about?
psychedelics they hear a word like Magic mushrooms
And they hear the visions people have and they tend to associate it with a very recreational type experience
And maybe it is for some people but for for me. I'm at my one year anniversary since I first took ayahuasca
which I was terrified to do I was really not comfortable with confronting my demons, but
It is affected my character. I've done three ceremonies
It was March august in December
But it's affected my character such a positive way because I think I confronted these demons that I was holding inside and that I was
Often times when I'd feel pain
I think I would you know you know drink too much to medicate yourself a lot of people do this I?
Distract yourself from what the real problem is inside, and yeah
I mean, there's a lot of substances and things like alcohol or a way to sort of get you away from yourself
But I wasc is a substance that makes you face things about yourself
I think it's the main difference right it's like yeah
They said that certain drugs help you tune out
the Ayahuasca makes you tune in
maybe to a
Way that you're just not ready for cuz ya find it to be very overwhelming for people yeah as I said
It's like putting a mirror up to your soul and your get to see how you've been treating the rest of the world and usually
It's not good news yeah, um that's the way I kind of describe it but for me
It's it's made it a big development in my life. I mean I was 40 40 40 years old before I ever
Moved in with you know another woman or became like more of a family person
And I attribute it all to ayahuasca
My better half will say it was her
But I have to say that the ayahuasca is a pivotal experience in my life particularly the second one
And I think it makes me more calm today. It makes me more loving of others. It makes me more
accepting of
Things that I can't control and so it's it's very powerful stuff [Sharona]
It's been very encouraging for me cuz I'm being on my travels for the past eight or so months
and I'm getting a lot of contact with people who are working with this medicine and just seeing the kind of
transformations people are going through
You know become more compassionate people and you know there is [this] whole emmalin element as well with pSychedelics?
That is used in kind of post-traumatic stress disorders, and yes, no I've had people contact me say they were able to deal with certain
Traumatic childhood experiences and all this and
You know and it is an interesting thing to when you consider. This is a banned substance
I think it's kind of that in America
It's scheduled Wasnae Jewish the definition of is well. One of the conditions of making it scheduled one is it has to have no?
Therapeutic use whatsoever, and I think as we've seen through testimonials of other people and with a lot of scientific researchers coming out now
It's that that's not the case, and it seems the most ridiculous thing to hear me to say of course yeah
Because ninety-nine ninety-eight percent of the people I've ever met who we've had you know sillas Ivanore ayahuasca experiences I
Think they're better people because of it you know and then they act
Maybe a hundred percent you know
And maybe this is a throwback from the banning of LSD in
1966 in the States when maybe it was [just] a backlash of fear that
Kept out of the public eye for research for 30 or 40 [years], but as we've [seen] now with Dr.
Carhart Harris, and if you haven't seen that up
So please watch it because he's doing real clinical research where he is actually showing that that these?
Substances can help in depression and can help in a lot of repetitive behavior patterns like I'm sure everyone listening
This it felt himself in a cycle. They say the definition of insanity is repeating the same action expecting two different results yet
We've all done it and in Dr.. Carhart Harris who is a researcher?
He's not a he's not a user of these substances. He has said it's a
Definite way to break a cycle of behavior. Yeah, it's really great to see
[Kinda] he does a lot of scientific studies on actually what happens in the brain when you go through I think it's a lot of
His research with the silicide mushroom, but again these things have a big overlap
and I like the way he described it when he said in the brain there are these certain hubs of
information and they collect information from various different parts of the brain into one cohesive whole and
what he said is the [scilla] siren kind of lowered the
Activity of these hubs and he explained it as long as as if a conductor left the room in an orchestra
So now you're kind of dealing with a kind of unfiltered
Information and he says this is the way
How people find it very freeing and liberating and also how people have this disillusion of ego?
Which is sort of how they be conditioned to think about the world is kind of getting rid of that baggage?
I mean conditioning that you've been brought up with and kind of
Being a bit more experimental with the information that's in front of you
It's like almost everything that goes through your mind is processed. How that relates to my ego if you see something
It's like okay
does that make me feel good does that make me feel bad does that validate my personality does it not so I think
What with some of these substances [is] Carhartt Harris is talking about it?
Removes that and then you can like you said process the raw information for what it is
Yeah, and I guess that's also why people see themselves
For how other people might see them as well. They step outside if they're I've often said it took me out of
How I thought about the world and actually how it was instead
I was just kind of my condition and acted as a kind of filter
For life and to take that filter away and kind of see things from a different perspective
You know it's something that's simon powell talked about with the scylla Simon solution and something Dr.
Carhart Harris talked about where maybe someday there will be these
Clinics you know they may be these like like you would go to a spa for the weekend rejuvenation center
Yeah, where you would check in for the weekend?
You would see a doctor
They would prescribe a certain amount of silla Simon or a certain amount of dimethyltryptamine
You go into a comfortable room with comfortable music with maybe a nurse to watch over you and for the next eight hours you would
explore parts of your brain and maybe
Confront some demons
And then you could come back on Monday and as opposed to having a massage you
Might have that kind of so I'm thankful massage. That's peripheral
I just for me it just seems like it's a no-brainer that these things would be a wonderful way
For people to practice this in a safe way a controlled way that would better society in a huge way
But I don't know am I being a little idealistic
No, I think that essentially is the conclusion a lot of people come to you
then when they see the power of the therapeutic use of this
They would naturally think that there should be some kind of centers that people can go to
To sort of you know have these inner journeys and also for me a lot of the pSychedelic experiences about connection to nature
so I think it's very important to have that aspect as well, and I do sometimes think when you're dealing with the
extracted a
Synthesized forms of DmT and suicide when as well they kind of lose that
important Connection to nature you know there's something to be said about
Having the intention of you know going for the process of brewing the ayahuasca raw in the sensors to the simon you know
Trekking through nature and getting your hands on the actual form of it you [need] the mushrikun. You know understand in its origin
It's a kind of embodiment of kind of nature [it's] [a] yes
So for people don't know the ayahuasca is made from two different plants in the Amazon
And they're boiled down over days. Is that right? I mean you can do in a day
I've been to places where they do over four days
And it's just a level of concentration [they] want to get
Into the [brew] and some of the places you can go you can make it yourself?
Obviously you're on a diet for usually [ten] days fairly strict diet and there's a whole ceremony. There's a shaman
It's something that's very respected. I think it's a pivotal part of the experience to prepare your mind for what you're [going] to do now
[we] should talk about how DmT is not that you know Alex
And I have not done any diet for this there will be no ceremony that I'm aware of
and we will be as
smoking this extracted form
Of the DmT and so what what does that mean in your opinion as far as perceptions of it?
And what is the reality going to be as in it comparing to an ayahuasca, sir? I I do think a large part of the
Ritual practices with Ayahuasca the way you have a certain diet. You're prepared to do certain
Ceremonial actions and years taken at nighttime I think it is in a sense of way of mentally preparing you the way you
Actively do it in the physical sense is a way of mentally preparing you as well
So I think as long as you have that mental preparation beforehand
You're kind of um that's kind of one step towards go improve the experience
That's for the ayahuasca experience now with the DMT. We won't have that so
How will that alter the experience in your own opinion um?
What will if you had to try to describe someone what this will be like?
What will this DMT experience be like to you? Okay? Well? I mean firstly just the actual
Experience itself, it's only in a 15 or so minutes right incredibly short. It's been called the
Businessmen's high in Amsterdam because apparently you can take a lunch break
Smoked DmT go to where you're going to go and be back and fairly Sober within 15 20 30 minutes as I correct
Yeah, okay. That's all right
You know it is it is all about set and setting and I think that's what a lot of the ritual aspects of the ayahuasca
is about it is that kind of putting a very safe setting where you feel very secure and
If you can provide that in by arrow means by with the DMT experience if you're in a safe comfortable environment
Then you know there's no reason why I can go through an equally positive experience with it now
I mean for us we've talked about ayahuasca on London real for a year now
I've had a lot of people ask me about DMT. We've had
Some in Palawan to talk about so saavn
We had Carhartt [Harris] for me this seemed like a bit of an elephant in the room. We've never addressed DMT
We've never talked to mt. We've never consumed DmT. So I'm glad that we're going to address this but it does have a bit
When you tell someone you're going to smoke something that was it extracted that's I think it's a white powder has a lot more
Connotation people yeah, I think people view it as a narcotic. It's a schedule 1 drug. So they're like
Oh, you're going to do that drug, and so I would like to implore people that this is a way of
potentially finding you know
Finding out more about yourself
The world you live in maybe finding peace and and that's what I think for me the pSychedelic experience
Is there value right and when people describe the DMT versus the Ayah people describe the DMT is going to see new worlds and being
Revealed things that they might not even understand whether as the ayahuasca
usually is a three or four-hour journey and
From what I understand for me and other people you're being taught
Very time specific lessons about your life the way you treat people that kind of thing
I don't [necessarily] expect those type of lessons in the DMT experience, but yeah, I mean again
Maybe maybe so because the ayahuasca is you know it's a four to six hour journey then
in the in the terms of working through various elements of yourself, it's
more better suited to work with the ayahuasca because
That longer a length of time allows you to sort of integrate these lessons and really work through them
Whereas the DmT is so short that I think
You know going through those sort of things is going to be a slightly different experiment, right?
Now when when when nick and I were looking for Ayahuasca shamans
we were approached by some people that said we have some dmT you can smoke and we were very hesitant because we
Wanted to go through the ritual and we wanted to approach the ayahuasca experience first and maybe we were
Culturally biased as well to smoke this drug with this pipe or whatever that we didn't want to do that
We wanted to go for a more spiritual experience
can you can you talk a bit about about that as far as
Do you believe people should do the ayahuasca before the DMT?
You know I'm not in a position to say what they can and can't do their own consciousness of course
But you know I would definitely recommend that
Go through the ayahuasca experience first
I know a lot of people don't have access to that Indian often requires a trip to the drawing on whether this but
The DmT you know the whole
Thing we're tapping into with both the ayahuasca, and the DMT is just so extraordinary and just out of [this] world
There can be very overwhelming
And I think if you're introduced to that in this kind of 50 minute DMT experience
The kind of tendency is to sort of give into astonishment, and I know from one of my experiences with that
I was so astonished by what I was going through I kind of opened my eyes and just completely snapped out of the experience
so I think you do need that ground in in these longer sessions with Ayahuasca to sort of really get a feel for what you're
tapping into so that when you do go through
With the DmT you kind of have a good handle on things you immediately know what you're tapping into and you can sort of just
Morgue over the flow rather than be too overwhelmed with it
It's interesting because there's many parts of a pSychedelic
Experience a lot of it are these visuals you see which can be amazing and you hear people
Describing on these Youtube videos and you see you know Jimi Jimi Hendrix album covers that look like the experience itself
But there's this whole secondary and tertiary
Change going on inside your subconscious
which I think some people forget about this happen here a lot of times most of the time you don't even know it's happening and
Then it's only months later weeks later you find that you're not yelling at the guy in traffic
And you're not um you know stressed out all the time or you're not you know drinking six pints at night and so sometimes these
changes happen, but
Often times people don't associate this with a pSychedelic experience. They associate you know I saw discos you are out
Yeah, I saw an Alien land on my head and the kind of thing
and I don't think I'm not to diminish those experiences those are very important, but uh
There there's a lot going on here. Yeah, and I think people can get a little too caught up in those kind of extravagant
Visions, but you know I have only hear people when they refer to things like this
But when I talk to people in person, I never really have them talking about these are really far out ideas
It is much more ground and kind of within themselves. Yeah
So I I don't know I think that kind of idea of these really extravagant
Levels is um. I don't know some cultural
Yeah, it might just be as us as humans we we tend to identify the pop culture the wows
You know the the the cool sounding visuals first then our mind
And maybe and that's another thing this this comes to is language
And it's something that we talk about a lot terence McKenna talks about it's like
language is something we use to try to communicate with each other to talk about the real world there, and I kind of develop like
To sort of keep us away from dangers when we have a longer in our evolution you know watch out for that
Saber-toothed tiger and it kind of grew out as a way to sort of explain the outside world, right?
but it gotta get sound a
Bit mixed up me try and apply there that same tool which language is to sort of describe these more
More abstract ideas you know tapped into certain emotions and talking about these inner realms that people experience with ayahuasca
Yeah, I find that after mine ayahuasca experiences. I don't want to talk
It's almost like I I'm cheapening the of what happened to try to describe it to someone and I always fail
So immediately after a few hours after I just try to shut up and then later I can write about it
But even then it's it's hard
Right because it's a lot of a lot of it's a feeling
The things that you've never had very is very much tapped into emotion yesterday
And I know that you know I've gone from my own work of trying to attain
Similar States of awareness through meditation and things I don't know for the long as the time I turned it into a kind of mental
Activity and had no luck with that, but when I got more in touch with my emotions, and how I felt in ceremony
Then I felt like I was very much on the borders of similar States of awareness that you get through pSychedelics
So you were just becoming more emotionally open to the experiences I?
Think the pSychedelic experience at its core is
an emotional experience and
Kind of when you focus on kind of the mental activities of it kind of gets away from what it is. I think
I just want to say something else on a personal note
And it's something I thought about I mean
You know we we've we've shot 86 episodes of London real we've had a lot of people on a lot of very interesting guests
We talked about Ayahuasca pSychedelics. We talked about
You know all sorts of different things and confronted something like this head-on is something. I talk to Alex about him
we both agreed that going away for an ayahuasca ceremony the connotations to the
The public the Monkey Clan are a little bit more okay?
Because you're going away to this ritual you with a shaman and met as a post going to smoke this extract
I know that a lot of people are going to have a knee-jerk reaction to this and say
Brian what are you doing smoking this stuff? You know it's a class one drug
It's crap basically and um I'm more and more aware of this especially now as I've told you before Alex
I've gotta I gotta guess. I've got a family now and I
It's like now I have to think about what you know the school says or other kids parents say
And if they see this it's very likely for them to say oh brian is this type of guy?
Put him in this this type of hole so it's something that it actually makes me nervous and scared and it also makes me angry
Because it seems like this is something that's done me so much benefit as far as the pSychedelic category as a person I
wouldn't be with this family if it wasn't for in my opinion these substances these medicines and
So to categorize me as potentially a bad parent because I'm doing it are talking about it
Does make me angry and so it's one of the reasons
I'm doing this episode because like I feel that to like run away from that
I don't know that oppression and maybe it's only in my mind
but like I think I need to run towards it and just
Confront it in whatever happens happens sure what when you discover something has huge beneficial effects the natural thing is to you want to share
It yeah, and then you do face that cultural wall of people's perceptions about these things
But you like you said with the ayahuasca. I think a lot of people they may not understand the pSychedelic aspect to it
But I think on some levels they understand this level where you talk about this connection to nature being in the jungle?
If you're in the jungle of these experiences, so when you talk about just solely there psychedelic experience with the dean
[T-that], that's when it gets a bit more difficult yeah, there's more of judgment. Yeah, it's more judgment there
It seems by people, and yeah, they equate it. You know like with ya, I think they equated with more of a narcotic and it
Didn't and it's something we have to deal with this perception
I mean
We're all part of the monkey clan the Morreplan can lock us up in
The you know and in the prison they can take away all rights that can call us criminals
They can you know shut the shut our broadcast down, so it's like you need to be aware of it
But at the same time I don't think it can change the way you do things in your life
And you know we've had guests talk we had dorian yates you know sixth time, Mr.. Olympia
Who's talked about smoking DmT and how it was very profound and one of the things I noticed about dorian?
I was like well, when did you smoke at last? He was like six months ago
I was like you have any plans smoking again. He's like
I don't have plans to but I might and it's something terence McKenna talks about he talks about large doses
Infrequently to learn things and Simon powell talked about that as well, and that makes me more comfortable when I'm about to go smoke
dimethyltryptamine today knowing [that] it's it's not an addictive substance, and it's something that people don't run back to
Harass a difficult experience yeah, and I mean ayahuasca is something that on a good year
I forced myself about that for but I make myself go once every three or four months three times last year
And that's a conscious effort of going back to the Mountain knowing
It's going to be a long night, but I know what makes me a better person
And it's just interesting and makes me feel better about DmT. It's not something you hear people. I'm going to do DMT this weekend
I can't wait. Yeah, it sounds like something you do
Infrequently, and then you process that information, and there's a lot of information to process with that
Yeah, Iii know, what those are
Elements of Asthma Kennedy talked about when I know he talked to a lot of people
And they're talking about that DmT experience, and how it's just the most life-changing experience for them and they said well
When did you take this sounds like 10 years ago? I'm not touched. It since it's right there
you know the experience stays with you, and there's a lot of process with it and
You know you can get enough from it then you know you don't [need] to go into these [things] again and again rice
It's not like that
Yeah, that's interesting for me because I had three ayahuasca ceremonies last year
And I don't have any [planned] for this year and part of me. Thinks you know, maybe I'm just being
Not proactive enough, and I'm just running away, but also
I think I us cuz there I think it calls you when it's time, and I think that it's always there
And you don't need to be there every every three months
Yeah, it's very important to integrate these lessons into this reality, and I guess people some people
Maybe get a little too caught up in that unusual experience
And I think that's maybe getting away from things and I could understand that I mean won't you drink ayahuasca
You do get all this information and knowledge and part of you does want to go back and and get more of that knowledge
And you know after even a week or two after your ayahuasca ceremony?
You can be in kind of a different world, and I could see how people can get used to that
But as sun palace that is important to do something with that it for me. Oh yeah, I believe so
Um are you scared?
I think everyone's scared when they go to through experience everyone's hands Shake going into it
But other than that you know I've gone through my own ayahuasca. Ceremony set I know to an extent what I'm going to encounter and
I've already flushed out or face all the kind of bad things about myself
I could possibly go through how many ceremonies if you've been to about forty forty night okay 40. That's more than that's a lot
Yeah, I'm um. I'm [uh] I'm a little nervous
but I'm still going to do it and
Assuming everything goes well with with with the people we meet and um yeah, I really don't know what's going to happen
I'm looking forward to it. I think
Yeah, [I] [I'm] [I] [can] nervous isn't the right word
But I'm as a sense of foreboding to it because you just know it's going to be a huge undertaking yeah huge experience
It's something you can't really do have harder that you kind of jump in and kind of jump all the way in
So that is our plan to do that. We are going
to leave right now for the airport
We should be back in about eight hours it might be late
But we definitely want to get back and tell you our experiences even if it's late at night
Because we wanted to do this in one day
and so you can see a before and after maybe especially for me because I've never touched this stuff before my life and
There it is I do want to say the old disclaimer kids don't try this at home. We are not suggesting or
That you do touch this stuff. I would definitely recommend
An Ayahuasca experience first, but then again, it's your own consciousness, and that's the beauty of it
You should [have] sovereignty over your own body to do whatever you want, so
More power to anyone who wants to do one thing or the other I would read up on this it took me 18 months before
I from my ayahuasca hearing the word the first time till I did my serums part of the same for me
And I was doing research in the back of my mind the whole time listening deciding deciding
So this was something like this you should take time. I don't think it's ever something to force on someone
I don't think anyone that does pSychedelics forces it on anyone, but it's something
I think we need to talk about so that's my disclaimer was that [good] [no] [swearing] that was good like I said once again
We are we are respecting the laws at the uk and since we live here and we're going to go somewhere else and I?
Don't know am I missing anything anything else to say I?
Think that's good news how very well with that. Yeah
and the only thing I want to say is that anyone who is judging me is a potentially a
Bad person or a bad parent or anything just please listen to the whole podcast listen to a few others
You know what we are trying to do is try to find some truth here and obviously try to
understand each other a little bit better and become better Kamar more productive human beings
So hopefully this is one of those processes, and I don't know what's going to [happen] to Alex
We might have an experience
We might have nothing but we'll come back and tell you yeah, all right should we get a taxi?
Let's do it. All right man. We will see you guys
later today goodbye
I
need uh oh
Um oh yeah, Mike make yourself up. Mm-hmm. That's quite a day Mr.. Ward
Okay
You miked up there
That's like. I forget just there. Yeah, that should be fine yeah. Yeah, yeah, that's good
okay um
Good yeah, I'm good. Okay. Look at camera. Just a bit. We will call [you] [back] further earlier
Maybe how's that good yeah? Yeah, that's cool. Yeah, okay. We are back
Mm-Hmm
We are back. Yeah that was quite a long day. I'm very tired after this I want to go to sleep
Yeah, I've got a bit of a dose of caffeine to help us get it yeah. Yeah, it will coffee on the way in um
Alex and I've just
returned from our trip where we we smoked dimethyltryptamine and
We both had I guess quite a profound experience each. Oh and could say that without further ado
I was wondering if you could tell everyone
What happened to you what you saw what you felt?
I'll leave it to you. Okay, jumping right into it. Yeah
So yeah, usually when I go straight into it. There's this instance that comes up, and it came again during this experience and
When I'm smoking this and about to break through I always have this very odd sensation of some kind of outside
observation of
me I
Don't know. What is is a form of their consciousness part of a part of my self?
that's kind of looking back at me, but it's a very strong sensation and
someone's watching you
Yeah, I don't want to put in quite those paranoid times, but it definitely feels to be some kind of external
Energy that's kind of observing you through this in a sense
And it's always a very familiar sensation I go through and I also went through the signature
process of having this noise that picks up in frequency and gets louder and louder as this effect this begins to take effect and the
Myth of that was this this is the noise the pineal gland makes upon activation right the pineal gland the third eye
Which is that? Yeah? This is a course just myth, but it's an interesting idea to think about
So I went into this and just lay back and [closed] my eyes and for the first few seconds
I felt like it wasn't really taken effect
I
felt like I could see visions behind closed eyes, but it was if someone had turned off the lights and
So I'm seeing these visions. Which is this kind of organic plant life?
Mass of some sort and I remember as I'm sort of breathin in each time. I take a breath these
plant-like organisms are just filling up with light more and more and
I've seen these kind of um plant-like organisms quite a bit before and
it's usually [a] representation of my physical body and
usually when I go for experiences where the ayahuasca is kind of working through me and kind of
Evaluating the kind of how health I am healthy
I am in my body then it's always represented with these same kind of organisms, okay, very unusual and
so when I breathe in this these plan like organisms are acting as a kind of curtain or a veil and
When I reach the peak it's as though this curtain. It's just sort of whipped away, and
I'm very much in my normal state of consciousness. I don't think it affects you kind of mentally at all. You're very much
How you are kind of before you went in it's only the surroundings at that point Suddenly
I swapped out with an entirely different surroundings, okay?
So you are a kind of you your oyster you in a completely different Matrix
That's kind of the way. I felt as well like I was brought into this all video game of two dimensional space
Where um yeah, I wasn't in control anymore, and I was in someone else's playing field as what I felt
And I think that's why it's so intimidating as well
it doesn't affect you in any kind of emotional basis, so you're there how y'all normal sense of being normally is but
Completely different surround and right, so it's likely taking you literally out of your comfort little yeah, literal exactly like [that]
yeah, and so I mean what I tapped into with the DMT and
Us again this exact same round that I keep tapping into a time after time with our
experiences with the I oscar and
I felt myself. I've had a lot of other people report to me as well, when they go to this themselves
there's a huge sense of familiarity to this place that you tap into it feels like you're tapping into the very core of yourself and
their type of an
aesthetic design of this place was a kind of
multicolored Cathedral some sort
kind of a castle like and I remember kind of
Being in the presence of some other being he was kind of leading me through this space
so it's kind of a welcoming welcoming me back wall maze and
Kind of what I felt with this space
What I feel like I've tapped into with this and I've gone through many experiences with the ayahuasca
Is that it you're tapping into a kind of?
part of a more soulful part of yourself
I gone through experiences with the ayahuasca, and it feels like
The experience of life on Earth is that people have this?
Multi-dimensional existence I call it. It's just ideas I'm playing it right now, but
You get this huge sense that
you are present Beyond this this veil that is kind of lifted temporary with the pSychedelic and
it's almost as if
You're a soul having the experience of a physical body. I know many other people have had that same type feenin with it
and
There's some soul there. There's something beyond the physical yeah, there is this
Sensation that the consciousness you have is something more than just the body okay?
And I could [feel] that I could feel this
Very strong presence of this kind of very force of life the very force of existence
that was living through me and
It was this that was
representing these plant-like organisms that
When it doesn't have this force of life this force of consciousness that there is no kind of life
to it and when I took in the breath it kind of just
Blurred full of light and did this take you back to her space that you go to when you drink ayahuasca?
Yeah, pretty much the exact same place, okay, I think
With the DMT it kind of takes you
to the very more pure experience in a sense because I know
the Ayahuasca
Has a lot to do with the shaman Colin on these fairs. We call them in organic entities of Sort writers
I mean they they refer to as spirits so shamans in the room. They're chanting. [they're] they're channeling these other spirits?
yeah, typically when you're I was which could be a manifestation of a part of themselves that they give to you to sort of
help you heal certain positive our own in a space, or if their external this is kind of
Speculation with Emt is just three guys in a room and with the dmT you don't deal with those external
In organic entities I felt, and you just get two more a pure
Form of the experience, I think okay, I felt that the journey was so intense
I mean it started off for me, and I went right back to these as dekhi as techy and Geometrics
And I was right back to where it was almost like urine mother ayahuasca swirled. No longer your world where Brian's world
He's always in control of his world and now you're on this playing field where?
you're not in control and
and you're on in her world, and then it was [just] really intense and
That's and I felt a real maternal energy funny enough. Which is much like mother ayahuasca. Yeah
I kind of had a maternal spirit
That was actually trying to communicate something with me, but it was like the mute button was on yeah
So she was almost trying to even yelling at me at some point and a few times
She she kind of hit me or hit the camera that was
filming her and
It shuddered and she was trying to tell me something and then it would flashed why I thought she was holding a baby
And then it was back to her and there was all of this
Aggravated energy happening all at once and then from for me it kind of tapered down
It was almost like there wasn't enough time to learn a lesson you know I difficult that sensation as well
I felt like just as I was getting very much into it
You can feel it just second off the second just sort of slipping away
Hi, it's Brian Rose. I'm back. It's 24 hours after
Alex and I
Went away to smoke the dimethyltryptamine and I was just thinking about our our post smoke episode yesterday
And I think I might not have described my experience to you and everything that happens
so I figured I just put this supplemental in 24 hours later and give you a few more details because I
Think what people really liked about nick
And I when I when we did the ayahuasca experience is that we got into the specifics of what happened
Just so people could understand the ceremony a bit more and I know we missed that yesterday
I think Alex and I were still a little bit of in a little bit of a kind of the days in hays
your back to about ninety percent after you smoke the Imf field trip to mean and and
So I think it may be good for me to tell you what [happened] to me
obviously
We we left the country and went to a place where we we found that the mTA we had some supplied to us
And you basically you uh you heat it up
It's a powder and you you smoke it and actually I was going to go first
You know because I guess because it's my show
And I had never done it before but I had a very hard time ingesting the right amount and very little happened to me
So it was almost frustrating at that point, but then Alex went
next and
For his first I think four breaths of the the the dimethyltryptamine vapor
I thought he was having a similar non effect, and I was about to [say] didn't work for you either
We thought we had a bum batch and it was just going to be a big waste of time whole episode
But then Alex Laid back [on] the sofa, and he said it was one a very powerful experience for him
So I waited an hour which is I think the amount of time you need to your brain to kind of
Metabolize anything that might be in there, and I went again for a fairly large dose
I kind of wanted to break through as they say what dimethyltryptamine
I think if you get a mild dose
You might just see some some visions and things but I wanted to really
Break through into that next level and I made sure I did
I think I was about 100 milligrams was the dose that that we that we heated up
I think you lose some of that in the process and I took
four
breaths in on my fourth Breath
I was almost losing reality, but thankfully Alex was there and said Brian take the fourth one which was good
And then I leaned back, and I was just immediately ave elevated to like this as techy in a geometric plane
and it reminded me very much, so of the eye of the
Geometric shapes I see when I'm in Ayahuasca after I drink the ayahuasca
except this plane was really intense with like a lot of
Not anger but a lot of I guess just intensity, and I just felt that I was in someone else's playing field
that I wasn't in charge and and that's always a strange feeling for me since I'm such a
Control freak in my environment. I like to choose who I associate with and the situations. I put myself into I like to push myself
But I also like to then come back home
so I was elevated to this plane that reminded me a lot of the ayahuasca plane, but
but there was no audio because there was no shaman singing and
It was just quiet in the room and for some reason. I I saw this what seemed to be like a mother entity
But she was almost pixelated so I couldn't see her face and she seemed to be
urgently trying to yell something to me or something and
She seemed to be kind of running around and fretting and at some point
I thought I saw her holding a baby or a baby in her womb or something in a few times
She tapped the camera as if I would tap this camera right now to my vision and and it went white and I was just
Like she was almost like yelling at you, but the volume was completely muted. I don't know if you've ever had that experience
Maybe someone yelling at you
And you had you know earphones on or something and I was just like oh trying just to be with experience
but also
I was very happy to know that I would not be there forever because it was pretty intense and out of control and I
Didn't feel emotions like I would feel in ayahuasca
Where it's a lot of you know I?
Feel the pain of other people and their suffering and the fact that I'm not loving them enough that kind of thing this was more
Just felt like a real intensity and the vibe and she was trying [to] tell me something then there was just arjun singh it was
a real like
a much more intense
Plane that I get with Ayahuasca ayahuasca. There's those visions and there was those emotions, but I didn't feel like
Ayahuasca feels like more of a story line and the DMT was more of a
Here going to take you read to the hyperspace, and then you're going to come back down
And I knew I was going to come back, and [I] was feeling and is the way it was slowly dissipating
I'm guessing after a minute one or minute to I thought oh, there's a lesson here. She's trying to teach me something about
maternal Ism
Motherhood
My future is a father something and so I sat back and was like oh
Let me learn the lesson like I do sometimes on Ayahuasca and oftentimes
there's a lesson and oftentimes there isn't and I think that's just our own ego projecting as
If the universe is telling us something for us, so I think that's just your ego getting in the way
So then I kind of dissipated that and just just tried to be with the vision
but I think it was very helpful that I had felt like I'd been that space before with ayahuasca because if not
I could have panicked and then like what is all this crazy new information
but I think I was able just to kind of absorb it and
Let it in and then it just kind of slowly calm down
The visuals went away and after about five minutes. I was pretty much back. I I'm the first thing I said to Alex was
that worked you know in and then he knew I think he knew by looking at me that I had been [there] and
Then I was I think I said Jesus a few times
It's just like it's such a reminder when you go into that level of consciousness even when you do ayahuasca
And you might have done it 40 times as alex had said
But you you still forget what it's like when you go into her own or go into this
Realm where you're pushing your consciousness, and it's so interesting because you're not in control. You can't take a break
You can't run away. You just have to deal with it, and it's funny how your consciousness almost fights with itself
You know it's like
It's like some type of hybrid consciousness you have well you're not in control
And you're in control and your ego is trying to process it
But then it can't process it and it's this weird thing where your brains trying to figure out what's going on a lot like what?
Robin Carhartt Harris said when he sat in this seat about it's like
An orchestra without the conductor, so it's like your main brain hub can't process this information
In order to make it sound like a beautiful song so all these instruments are coming in and it doesn't know what to do with
Them and that can be a beautiful confusion because it can kind of show
Where you're at as far as a conscious level as terence McKenna once a once said I don't know who discovered water
but it definitely wasn't a fish and
I think his point is is that when we're in our own consciousness
we don't know we're [in] it because we're swimming around in this water all the time and when we perturb it like we do with
psychedelic
Then we get to see the water that we're in is actually water and so we get to see that what we're in
What we think is just normal life is this consciousness?
And it's just nice to perturb it every now and then because I think it gives you an appreciation of your own consciousness
Allows you to observe yourself outside of your normal day of I got to get my coffee. I gotta get the kids to school
He's trying to screw me at work
I got to get more money to get paid I gotta get more money to buy that thing that I don't need and I think
It's nice sometimes to shock your consciousness and to realize that all [of] our
manifestations in our head are just a construct of our own of our own brain, so
That's what's a nice about a pSychedelic experience
is it is it it by definition will lower your your ego because
You get to see the world for what it is. Which is not your projection of the world, but it is just what it is
So I just thought I would give you that
Explanation um I didn't feel like I saw it got in touch with my soul or met aliens for me
It's just a show I don't feel like I'm going to another of consciousness or seen other beans
Alex has a different feeling he feels like he he does get in touch with some type of soul that he has beneath it
But you know what very different people
And that's the thing about a pSychedelic and what I find beautiful about the pSychedelics
Is there almost custom tailored to the person taking them you know I owasco for whoever drinks
It will usually confront the issues that that concern them the most and as my shaman says for me
it's always relationships and
That's what comes up with me. You know with with Alex comes up with nature
He has a real feeling with how man coexist with nature and what they were ruining nature
But for me a lot of my hangups tend to be how I interact with other people whether I trust them whether I love them
or all this stuff, so
my Shaman has been there for all three of my ayahuasca experience doesn't afterwards I'm always talking about my relationships to other people and she
Just noted that that's something very specific to me and not someone everyone else done
Everyone else feels, so there you go. I'm 24 hours later um I I feel good
I feel kind of maybe twenty percent of the effects of an ayahuasca
Ceremony as and I feel appreciative for the little things in life
For the sunshine today for the coffee. I had for people from my girls. I just have a little more
Feeling and in touch with that
We're in kind of a very important in beautiful
world as opposed to some days where I can get fed up and
Frustrated with with trying to get the show out or trying to work on this or trying to get more people to watch the show
[and] like all this other
Potential Nonsense today, I'm just kind of appreciating life, and I do feel [that] way after an ayahuasca ceremony
I would say this is about twenty percent of that as and I'm not full-on like
Calling old friends telling them how much I love them you know it's not that there's nothing wrong with that or hugging everyone is nothing
Wrong with that, and that's a lot of times what will happen after an ayahuasca experience a lot like a near-death experience
but today, I just feel to have kind of more of an appreciation for for things and
Yeah, I'd maybe not to take everything so seriously and so for me
It was just kind of a way to kind of take a notch down
But by no means did it replace an ayahuasca ceremony, and if anything
And it makes me
Leave more the power of a proper ayahuasca ceremony with a diet and with a shaman with a three or four-hour journey
Where you really go inside your head you know the DMT was interesting
I think it's affected me on a subconscious level to a certain extent but I really think it's just it was more of a
Blast off rocket and then right back down to Earth and I just I don't know if it's possible to learn a lesson in such
A short amount of time I feel like you really need to go through a journey and maybe even a mental preparation
As I mentally prepared for the DmT, but it was mostly just fear that I wouldn't you know?
Die or do something stupid or overdose which is but almost impossible with the dimethyltryptamine?
So anyways, I will let well I will
Turn you back over now to Alex and I talking about the experience. I hope
My explanation here has gotten you a little bit of insight into what we actually did and and what were the semantics of it
We both smoked once each we don't
Didn't feel the need to do it again, and I don't feel the need to do it again. I think my next
My next entrance back into the pSychedelic experience will probably be [in] ayahuasca. Ceremony
I'm thinking three or four months from now
So I know I probably should go back in this year and learn a bit more about myself
but I'm not in an extreme rush, so
So yeah, that's me anyways. I hope you enjoyed listening
I hope this episode helps you in some way yeah
I am I just want to make sure this this show is not a proponent. I'm not telling you to go and
Try this this this the spirit molecule, dimethyltryptamine. I'm not going to call it a drug because it's not
And this is no way
Suggesting that you do this
but it's just something that you need to be aware of and something that exists you know in Nature and in the world and
For me it took me 18 months before. I heard ayahuasca to do ayahuasca, so I
Implore you to do your own research do your own learning into your own?
Mental preparation before you want to do something like this, and if you don't feel like doing it don't do it
it's not for everyone and
I think
when
When you need it, you will find it
And it will call to you when you need it and when you no longer need it you won't anymore
So now I turn you back to alex and myself talking about the aftermath of our experience
I hope you enjoy the show if you do please share it with your friends and
That's it
It's about the Journey I
Think I told you you know on the flight back that I felt like at some point
I saw this information, and then I was like oh, I'm being taught something like I feel sometimes with ayahuasca
And I'm like you should sit back and listen to the message being given to you and the direction you should take with your life
And I sat back, and then I was like okay
You just being a douche because there's no lesson and there wasn't it was just the the feelings tapering off, but there wasn't like
After ayahuasca. I walk away with a few distinct pieces of you need to do this different
We need to treat this person better and with this I
Didn't get that lesson per se. No, not that I expected it. No. Yeah
I think it is something about humans that they expect this lesson through it
And I did similarly like in a similar fashion
I found my ego kick in kind of towards the end of the experience
And it's trying to formulate some kind of idea about what this experience is what I've learned from it
And it felt like that really got in the way, and I just remember kind of getting the impression not a spoken word
But this impression of just saying you know just be with the experience and stop trying to take control of it. Yeah, I know
When I spend time with a Shaman and the John will Don lucho
He says this is a common problem that comes up
So you just have to let go with that you go a voice and just be be with it
It's funny because it doesn't take your consciousness away completely, and you're trying to fight. Yeah, you're trying to protect your your ego
I guess is a way of looking at it or your filter of how you want to
Process its information while at the same point your consciousness is being pulled away from you and rippled so it's just it's a strange battle
And I think it is all how you perceive it as we know with ayahuasca. If you fight the experience. It's going to be a
Difficult night and potentially not a very fulfilling night
So yeah, so that was that was pretty
Intense Mm-Hmm. What do you think you can gain from A
Dmt experience. You know it was very brief. It was probably five minutes long or six minutes of the really intense stuff
You know in the next weeks or months do you think you're going to take something away from this?
or not
Definitely not to the same extent that you would with a ayahuasca experience
But for me it felt like the DMT experience was just a kind of a reaffirmation of what I've been through with ayahuasca
So it's nice to have that reconnection
Yeah in a sense, and I think that's probably how it could be utilized
I don't think the DMT as a core experience on its own
Can be that beneficial because it is so over so quickly
Yeah, and I think you need [that] longer time to integrate a lot of a blessing and I know we're gonna a lot of DMT
Fanatics are gonna. You know be [like] [you] guys don't understand and I understand what you're saying and it can be
Since I had done ayahuasca it took me to a plane that I was somewhat familiar with and I was like okay
We're back here now if I hadn't done that before it would have been a massive sensory overload
I would have been like what am I doing [in] this world and
It might have affected me differently but um I think that there were those lessons. It's almost like I got you know a
Lesson taught over over three hours like say it was a martial arts lesson that I learned something as opposed to
Someone walking up to me and punching me in the head and said that's a knockout
You know it was almost like I don't have enough time to process and learn from this
but I did get a glimpse of something which I know exists and
I did feel some of those old feelings about the ayahuasca like
You're not completely in charge. There's these other people there's these other entities. There's this other message out there, but then it stopped there
Yeah, do you think there was some kind of significance to?
This maternal lady of sort that it was a kind [of] representation of things that I happen in kind of in your life. Yes
yes, I'm surrounded by women and
I'm turning 40 to this year, and I've never procreated and as we were talking about earlier. I think ayahuasca has this communal
family
clan
Vibe going on when you when you drink ayahuasca and even nature for you less, so for me in
Relationship and and almost an avatar thing which [I] hate [I] hate to use that expression, but it's it's a good compare
Yeah, no, I totally felt that as well that
That's one of the differences that separates ayahuasca from other psychedelics that it does seem to focus more on
These issues of Family Community and friendship and I think
Part of my Journeys was realizing that it's not really about the ayahuasca R
It's about more the communities that are forming around this kind of [medicine] use they kind of been taught these
Messages of community and kind of working together. It's a I guess looking back
It's kind of similar to how maybe some of these older tribal cultures kind of live their lives
And you know there is reasons
I mean the ancient tribal traditions realize that they need is some kind of symbiotic
Relationship to nature and in this way they survived for thousands of years interesting
Where's have you seen like our modern dominated coaches that resentful and countless lee, so it's almost like you're saying the ayahuasca
Breeds a feeling of community which results in a community being built yeah?
I think that's kind of the larger picture of what's being playing out. All right. You've [seen] so many instances
You've been to New York City to it
To be with the shamanic community there you been to peru you've been all over so you get to see
Not only the first hand experience of the ayahuasca, but you could see the communities building, right?
Yeah, I mean that that is one of the strongest things I felt about the scene of this and there was this
Concept that's been playing around a lot of this these are kind of medicine circles
And that is this movement called the condor Eagle prophecy, okay?
And the condor is an element that represents these older
Southern American cultures that do have their
Traditions in medicine use like this
And they've kept alive and knowledge of these altered states and more of an alignment with spirit and this reverence for nature
Whereas the E represents the kind of North American Modern cultures like our own where we do sort of descended into this?
reverence for physical matter okay, we kind of
Separated from that sense of [community] and part of this movement is
Bringing together all these old scattered tribes who are now come together and less share in their different medicine practices
And that's kind of what you see happening in kind of North America now Gotcha
it's a part of this is kind of
To merge the condor and the eagle together so that we can merge our two cultures on a go together into the future it sounds
Like a plan for me, but I think I might have skipped your maternal question, but so yeah
I think that this whole for me. I mean for [me]. I took ayahuasca
the first time a year ago
And um I was very non-committal I not
Cohabitated with any of anyone else and since then I've moved in with a girlfriend and a young girl
And I'm becoming this whole family man and the idea appropriation is coming up in my mind more than anything, so I
Don't think this whole maternal thing is any kind of a surprise
I mean, it was a surprise when I went into the state
I was like [Jesus] who is this lady yelling at me with this, baby?
But um but you know it makes sense that it might be something a bit more symbolic, and you know again. It's not something
I'm going to focus on and try to figure out the next few weeks probably going to you know not think about it and
You know if I change as a character then maybe that will change
But yeah, I [think] there's definitely
something going on there when it comes to that, but you know the one takeaway from the
Takeaway from this is if if you've heard about DmT, and you know it's a class a drug or a schedule 1 and
You know we've just gone somewhere and smoked it and come back. I mean I feel ninety ninety-five percent right now
Oh, yeah, I feel fine
I don't think there's any risk in doing it because you kind of inhale it until you can't anymore
So there's not a real overdose risk and it might sound like a crazy like a drug culture thing
but it was just kind of a glimpse into
for me the concept of consciousness Mornin not even into my own brain, but maybe just the concept that
We have a consciousness and all this stuff is just you know
Chemical reactions to what I'm seeing and we're all just on a big ride
Really?
That's the other thing that I take away from it like it's hard to take
Too much seriously like building an empire and all this stuff when you know that you're literally
13 inhalations away from going to the Aztec ian board game and where the rules can completely changed and if
Dying is anything near that just shows you
Almost I don't know
Do you think this has any kind of relation to?
What happens after death and things these kind of realm is what's happenin to when is [it] big question I thought about death?
I thought about okay well, this is
This is on the way to death as in this is a reduction of the control of my own
Consciousness, and my own egoic thoughts going to a plane where I'm not in charge, and I can't
I can't get the check so we can go and then death being something even further where
Well yeah, there's no more thought and it's it's quite um
Yeah, it's quite sobering to know that in the in death in my opinion from what I saw today
It does turn off you probably saw something different Mm-hmm
What is just touching on the same thing?
I keep seeing again and again, and I know many people have different interpretations of kind of the realms you encounter
There's some ideas which are more of a a young in interpretation where you're tapping into more the collective unconscious of humanity
Because they are conscious attention in this very moment is just kind of a wafer thin layer on top
Of this actually a huge amount of going on inside you
And I do believe I do believe that a lot of these states are kind of visual
manifestations of what's going on in the unconscious and
I
Don't know I did feel that for the longest time but there's just something about a lot of my later
Experiences that it did feel like I was connecting with some sort
I hate you use the word Spirit, but that's really what it feels like and
I've also been interested in kind of tapping into these dates more
Without the use of any kind of psychedelic cuz I do think it is more a window into these states of awareness
But not a natural doorway, I think um I
Put you into a certain alignment that allows you to be in the state of mind
But if you're constantly relying on something else to get you into that then you never really learn how to walk yourself
Yeah, so you're saying is a window not a doorway
Yeah, it's it's something to see and then to take back and what apply in your own life or to learn from yeah
I think so if you're interested in I mean this whole idea is about for me devil into the nature of consciousness, and I think
It's a very valuable
Experience to go through to understand what it means to have consciousness in the human body
it's under a large subject to tackle, but I think it's a important one to try and
Understand yeah, and I think it's important that you're saying that not yeah, you don't need to do this every weekend
you don't need to escape and see these things and see these truths and
that can even be the wrong thing because ultimately you do have to live in reality and
Hopefully these things can give you insights into into making some changes what I kind of realized today. Is that I?
Probably need [to] go back in and drink ayahuasca this year
Maybe once or twice, and then you know the battles not over and I'm a newbie compared to you. You're I'm [on] three ceremonies
you're on 40 I know it's not a quantity thing but I
probably have a lot more to understand in the long run about my own consciousness you have a
Many more years on you as well
So you're kind of dealing through a lot they heard he throws versus a lot water
You go through and call me old guy. I think I may be
Older, but you know I mean I've never had a huge amount to deal in terms of am my own personal life
I never had any kind of traumatic experiences in my childhood, so I never really had to process a lot of that
and it felt like I kind of got past that very quickly and my focus kind of
Descended on trying to understand what these states of mind are right?
but also you found a journey in
Trying to to become less shy and to try to get out of your shell more
Yeah, of course you know it really does open you up to more experimental ways of approaching your work
And what it made me realize is it also gave me [a] message to want to produce artwork about
But it made me realize that doing artwork and then picking up other processes using film talking even like this
how we are now it's all different ways of trying to get out the same messages, but
It can help me get me out of that art box and put me into
Other things okay, what's it for someone listening to this or watching us right now?
That's just you know watch [us] go on this crazy crazy journey with some bumps along the road there were
And even setting this up
I mean what can what can they take away if they're never going to do this or they're thinking about it?
You know if you can give them some parting advice about what we've done today, and what we've learned. What what would you say?
I
Think we touched on it before
I think people get a bizzle to grown into the unique experiences that of these altered States of mind
[and] [I] think ultimately if you're not bringing back information to use in your daily life because we're here to live in this ordinary Mundane
Reality and if it's not in any way kind of assist in that then you have to wonder well, what is the use of it?
So make it practical make it practical yeah
And it's very important what you go through see through these experiences to come back and ground it into it into this reality
Question when will be the next time you'll be smoking DMT
My Henry thought I would for a while, sir
Yeah, I mean, I I I'm [in] no need to yeah. I mean no need to no rush
I kind of saw a glimpse of something. I didn't feel like I needed to go back there as of yet. I know. It's [there]
If anything it just reminded me of my own
Fragility of my own consciousness and my own perceptions, and that there's another world right over there that
is existing in a parallel way with my own world so does seem [to] be that way and
You know we could try and shy away from saying it, but it seems evident that it along those lines
Yeah, I mean, and it's all bill hicks
He's an old comedian he just said you know what will sooner or later?
You realize this whole thing is just a ride you know and I don't mean to trivoli trivialize life
But you do realize that something like today. It's like
You know all of your emotions and feelings and most important desires and accomplishments
you want to make are really just electrical and chemical impulses in you know one or two kilos [on] the top of your head and
Those can be altered very easily, so I think I guess that's a bit of ego disillusion that I'm describing all right
And I think ultimately for me
I guess it might step on slightly meth physical terms
But I think behind everything even these experiences you're having with the altered States of mind
That I do see that behind all of that
When you connect to your true self when you realize you are the entire works of the universe. It's kind of
you see life is living through you having the experience of separation from all that is and
everything you go through negative all these trivial things that kind of
Valuable learning experiences for our true self which is all of this extent hmM, that's deep
It's funny cuz [I] don't have I didn't get an attachment to a soul when I want to go into these experiences
I don't think there is another level of beans and consciousness. I just see things and I bring things back so for me
Maybe it's my practical mind, but I don't think that there are other
Even beans and entities per se. I've just seen something that there's it's very interesting to know it's there
Yeah, but also, I'm in my early days and I could change over time or not
You know so I mean I'm still I I've always been a very much a skeptic
And I'm not willing to put my foot down and say it's this way or that way
But I think maybe I'm working in art my whole life. It's made my
Thinking maybe a little more loose like a full willing to allow sand ideas come in and at least play with I think okay
Excellent. I am I don't know what else there is to say
oh
Just for you timing are you're gonna be are you gonna be going back to Ayahuasca this year?
Are you going to take a break has that changed after what happened to you, too?
I'm taking a break from this you know for tea ceremonies enough and as I said I'm trying to
Find out ways to tap into this more on a meditation basis
I interviewed one guy in America [Allen] steinfeld who he said he came back from in different one lady who?
sat in a dark room for 40 days and said this whole space just opened up right in front of her and
It really did pique my interest when I went through a particular ayahuasca experience and the next day
I started to read more about the life of the buddha siddhartha and
they talked about his awakening underneath the bodhi tree and
It seemed like they were just describing my ayahuasca ceremony, okay?
And it seemed like that was a kind of thumbs up that yes, you know if you put your mind to it
It's something that can be attained through meditation. So you want to achieve your next level of enlightenment through meditation
I think so, and I think it sounds like something would be a lot harder
But I think because it's hard it'll happen more permanent fix. Yeah. No, I totally salute [that] you know
I think it's I totally salute that and I have nothing wrong with with the Shamans or ayahuasca people that are trying
But I love it when anyone takes a step back
Analyzes their behavior because you can always come back to it. You know
Yeah, there is this aspect you know no matter how much information you can bring back through the experience
It does take you up and brings. You can write back down it's not this permanent state of mind
Which is maybe a good thing cuz it's however whelming
I think that something could be said about putting the hard-working to
attain new States of Awareness cool no free lunch as they say
Awesome. I just wanted to thank the people in the continent that helped us out
If you want any information about them don't email me don't ask me about it because we're not going to talk about that
if you want to have your own experiences
Please research them
Well, there's lots of information on the internet in no way are we suggesting you do this?
We [just] wanted to
Do this for ourselves and address and what in my opinion was a big elephant in the room?
And it came to London real we've talked about Ayahuasca [Sillas] [iben] we've had doctors on and we've talked about DMT
I'm okay Alex is ok you know he you know he's
Still extremely good looking and and we're back. We're gonna continue on with my day and the show but um
Thank you for doing this with me. Thanks for me. I wouldn't have wanted anyone else with me, but you
Cool, all right well until then all the best everybody and it's about the journey it is indeed. Thank you. All right peace
And at the end of it. It's not like you get more MDMa
It's attempting to help people be healthy without drugs, right?
I think it's what you bring back from the drug experience that changes your
Normal your state of normal in a way that makes it so you don't need the girl you want to resolve the issues not just
medicate them daily yeah
