This is all in camera this shot it's
entirely in camera. Agh so cool. Where
basically we rotated the camera all we
did was remove the wires that really is
him stepping off the stairs and doing
that tumble for us we're trying to be
super faithful to zero gravity as much
as possible. We don't typically use the
Steadicam as a zero gravity tool because
it doesn't look notal.
What is going on Indy Mogul? My name is Ted and today
we are breaking into the cinematography of
"The Expanse" which, if you haven't seen it
yet, is one of the coolest looking shows
online and talking about this we're
talking with Jeremy Benning CSC
cinematographer behind the show and
actually breaking into a couple of the
scenes and talking about how the
lighting, rigging, actually went for each
scene let's do this.
Alright so starting off with "The Expanse" obviously a huge budget
sci-fi TV show but can you talk a little
bit about how you found the visual style?
Sure well I think in the beginning the
discussions that we had in the first
season about the look and the feel was
to have it feel grounded and real we
wanted to feel like a real place that
these were working ships you know we
referenced oil rigs you know that kind
of thing and then you know real working
environments where there's a there's
grit and dirt. Some of these places are
100 or more years old at that point so
there's a certain baked in age factor to
them and you know we wanted to make sure
that depending on the place we were in
some are older than others so we were
very conscious of A the utilitarian
nature of the place; so what actually
goes on there how do people work and
live there and how old is it? North front
took those ideas and made concept art
that was with our production design team
with Seth Reed in the first season and
came up with sort of this this look and
style and that kind of informed me of
like 'How do we light these things to
represent that feel?' When we came to
designing the lighting and the
built-in lights, we kind of used those
as kind of influences of like 'How
advanced is this technology?' 'How much is
the lighting built in?' Its architecturally
more kind of sculpted into the set
and that was a combination of the set
designers in New York and the concept
artists and then you know me getting
involved with them and kind of figuring
out what --A: How do we have to light the
set? From a just practical 'we have to light
it' standpoint but also that the lighting
that we see when we see it in the shot
like fits with that with that philosophy
of that place.
A lot of the light in the main flight
deck is from the floor and it creates
this sort of little more serious kind of
like ominous kind of thing.
The Beltre world was often more toppy
task lighting kind of like lights that
were stuck into the ceiling. Earth was a
little more softer and gentle and kind
of more side lit because we had so many
sets to to conceive of that you had at
least some starting point of okay well
this is Beltre like lean towards this
method of putting the lights into the
set.
It's Martian go you know this way and so
on. For the show as far as picking the
visual style to what camera and lens
package did you choose? We started with
the RED Dragon because at the time the
Alexa Mini didn't exist because
the Movi was a very important tool in
the beginning that we wanted to utilize
a lot for our zero-g work the Alexa was
too big you couldn't put an Alexa on a
Movi. Once the Mini had come out after
Season One we switched to Mini and we've
been with the Mini ever since but our
lens package is basically been the Cooke
S5s they're a little sharper but not as
sharp as Master Primes
they had that extra stop for our show
you know being future based we wanted
that really harsh crispness a lot of our
environments we didn't use haze which is
counter to what most people are doing
these days because it was sort of betray
the cleanliness of the space or a vacuum
environment or whatever so we made a
decision early on to, like, very little
diffusion in camera and almost no haze
unless there's like a battle sequence
with fire and stuff like that. So that
became our choice and you know that just
became the look of the show. Alrighty
are you ready to jump into some scenes
yes let's do it.
This was our, like, big intro to Series
Station which is an asteroid colony.
Basically introduced to the the
aesthetic of the Belters this sort of
like bohemian hippie style of costume
you know a bit kind of mixture of
different fabrics and of course this the
sense of this real bohemian market that
whole sequence we just saw was like a
long one take going from one part of a
set through a visual effect element and
then a Techno Crane shot that came down
into this this big market space to
reveal Thomas James character for the
first time. There's the Techno Crane
shot and then the foreground elements
are still visual effects and then now
we're fully in the Techno Crane shot so
once we get really low the second level
you see above the first level is all the
set extension visual effects wise. So
everything that's on the first level is
real. That's still an enormous set. It's a massive
set and all those tunnels you can see
going off into the distance were
practical and real and we had probably
two or three hundred extras any of the
light you see in here you don't really
get a sense that it's the Sun it has to
all be artificial it's a combination of
color and like neonness. I believe we
had two or three 12X12 like
soft boxes that were all on pulleys that
could be angled and a combination of the
sky panels and like light tools like egg
crates on them so that the light would
only go downward so we didn't want to
light the walls. Then you've got these
pools of hard light that are actually
coming from like robotic remotely
controlled lights
stage lights that's cyan kind of light
on him is from one of those robotic
lights and then in the background you
can see behind him there's like those
kind of shapes that are lit up we had a
whole series of like Rosco pads that we
had basically custom-made that were used
to backlight graphics at the art
department made and then we were able to
dim them to camera so that they weren't
they wouldn't burn out you know so you
could kind of dial them to it to the
shot to make sure that you could still
see the graphics and it wasn't like a
hot white I should mention like Ken we
are dimmer board programmer everything
in this set is controlled by him we
would often have shots where you know
you look one direction you want to have
backlight he would hit the cues of like
having one light dimmed down while
another one dims up as the camera pans
so we it was common we would often have
cues built in okay well I think there's
a good amount of built-in lighting in
the next scene so ready to move on
sure
I'm gonna learn there's silent running
mode we call it which is basically like
where they've got everything off so
they're kind of like like signature dark
too you know being detected so you see
the ship and then it goes into battle
mode here which is blue which is
interesting again that's a Ken we
lighting Q on the on the console and the
reason for that is that when we did our
research in the beginning we found out
that you know American battleships on
their command decks when they go into
battle mode they do what they go blue
all the flashing light that's going on
there is a combination of Ken making the
sets the lights and the set flash Ken
had this whole method of designing like
Fritz patterns that we would save and
they could go back and recall them
whenever we wanted to so when you first
read the scene and script what did you
know that you had to try to craft
visually they're in helmets they're
getting shot at so there's gonna be
camera shake reading the script you're
starting to think okay well what are the
all the different lighting cues that I'm
gonna have to think of for this scene
the scripts are actually quite
descriptive they usually tell us when
they go into battle mode so this set has
hundreds of Lights in it there I mean
the set is filled with LED you all throw
the walls the ceiling in the floor
almost all of them are RGB W so you can
basically make any color that you want
we have like a default look for the raw
sea which is sort of a neutral look and
then from there we have our red mode we
have our blue mode you know the nice
thing is is that because the actors in
this case are wearing helmets their
faces are lit with neutral light if you
don't have a white point reference you
actually start to lose the sense of the
color so if the whole frame was just
blue or red and there's nothing else in
there that's white after a while your I
starts to color balance itself and you
don't see the color anymore so we always
make sure that when we go into these
modes there's something in the set
that's still white so the floor in this
case doesn't change and whenever we go
into any color change mode
the floor always stays white got it can
you talk to me a little bit about those
helmets so Jim Mary is our prop master
and his team did a great job the thing
about them is these helmets have an air
system in them so there's air so that
they don't fog up there's microphones in
them there's earbuds so they can hear
and then of course the lighting we have
the forehead light the cheek light and
the chin light and each one of those
lights is is individually controlled via
wireless dmx
so can controls that on the board the
actors in this case when they're wearing
them they can't hear us on set because
they're wearing this thing and of course
they can't hear each other so they have
contacts with earbuds the only way we
can talk to them is with a microphone so
myself and the director usually have a
so that if we want to give them
instructions we give them an over the
mic and then they can hear each other as
actors over the ear buds as well it's a
whole process there's a whole prop team
and lighting team and a sound team it's
a soap that's dedicated to just handling
the helmets when they come out how much
was such a thing so Alice was basically
by himself and he's kind of like how to
to drinks he's singing to himself and
you can see all the empty cans floating
around for us we're trying to be super
faithful to zero gravity as much as
possible and getting out of a chair like
he's doing right now is actually tricky
so he has to get up in a way that
doesn't look like he's pushing herself
out of the chair
Mikael Solomon directed this episode
who's of course was the DP on the abyss
and backdraft I have a huge respect for
Mikhail and this was actually kind of
his concept having Alex kind of does a
flip off the stairs here and this is
where he's on wires so he's actually
doing this pivot this is all in camera
this shot it's entirely in camera oh oh
cool that was basically a three axis
lamda head where basically we rotated
the camera with him so when he did his
move we Jason the operator rotated the
camera to follow Alex all we did was
remove the wires that really is him
stepping off the stairs and doing that
tumble one of our cues we use for zero
gravity is we always have the camera
nota ly slightly rotating on its axis
you're not seeing anything zero gravity
in the scene cuz the actors are standing
with their Magwitch on the floor there's
nothing floating in the shot we want to
make sure the audience know is so
consciously when we're in zero gravity
so anytime there's a gravity we just
rotate the frame very slightly like
really really slowly so you're getting
this real sense of like the frame is
slowly turning we watched a lot of like
NASA zero-gravity footage from the space
station we studied that and you could
tell when they're moving the camera
round in there if they let it go for me
you can really feel that perfectly nodal
float if you use the Steadicam as is and
you try and like make the horizons go
off it's not nodal because the pivot
point for the Steadicam is actually down
with the gimbal is and the lens is up
here that's why we don't typically use
the Steadicam as a zero-gravity tool
because it doesn't look knodel that's
fantastic
next clip let's do this here we go
now the reason I wanted to bring this
clip in here is because not all of the
show obviously takes place in space so
tell us what's going on this theme first
so this is the character a novel Ovid of
she is going to the UN to have a meeting
and there's the there's a riot going on
outside of the UN in in New York so this
was shot on a real location in Toronto
at downtown and we had a couple hundred
extras and this was basically an
exercise in making the crowd look bigger
than it is it was like we had not a lot
of time to do this scene so the most
efficient way of possible was to you
know use natural light as much as we
could so choose the direction where the
you know the light is nice and the time
of day this is kind of like a courtyard
in downtown Toronto we work with what
was there and added to it with our own
set deck stuff so like that lamppost you
see is there but the plastic kind of
shield things are not this is one of
those days where because typically were
a two camera show but every so often
will bring in a third camera so as we're
shooting the coverage of the scene that
third camera can almost act like a
splinter and go off and just get details
of the crowd think of yourself as a
documentary unit going and shoot this
documentary style and think of like
you're at a riot getting news coverage
you know that's kind of your your
approach what's the key to making a crab
look bigger than it really is it's that
whole cone of the lens right of like
making sure that you're putting people
in the in that angle of view bring as
many people close as you can and then as
they get further away you kind of you
kind of taper them in so you're not
wasting people off to the sides the
philosophy is still that the the earth
is kind of still polluted the skies are
not pristine anymore it's not as dirty
as are some of our space environments
it's kind of it feels like Earth but
it's not clean it's not super pretty but
it's definitely a departure from space
and from our belter environments and we
we tried to make sure that whenever we
go to earth it's an opportunity for the
audience to have a bit of a breathing
moment you're out of that claustrophobic
ness of our small space ship sets and
stuff and remember there is that
contrast of Earth that earth is an open
space you see those trees there's green
you don't see trees or greenery anywhere
in our space environment for the most
part when you cut to this from the other
scenes you're like whoa like we're
suddenly like on earth in the flow of
the show this is really actually quite
jarring now real quick let's talk about
square space which bent this point
everybody should be using to make the
cinematography real you could probably
get away with just having your reel
automatically plays
background as soon as someone looks up
your website which actually much like
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interested in wondering now do it here's
how you do it find a website template
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Squarespace for sponsoring this episode
and now back to the episode so this
seemed the tricky thing about the scene
was it was shot in different segments
the Rossie consists of multiple set
pieces the first shot of her leaving the
cargo bay that's a set piece that's real
when she tumbles into space there's a
digi double moment so did you double
meaning that it's a it's a CG version of
her but then the next shot where the
cameras looking down on her that is real
and that's in camera the Rossy of course
that's CG but she's really in camera
that's her on wires on a blue screen the
cameras above her looking down quite
often we don't move the actor we
actually use the camera to move by that
so in this case the technic rain is
actually coming down towards her and
going past her the trick about this was
that was keeping track of where the Sun
was because we shot this in like three
different chunks in the previous shot
when she leaves the ship the Sun is kind
of coming from her left this next shot
was shot like a week later on a
different in our blue-screen stage
versus a different place the Sun has to
be in the same place and it has to have
the same intensity we love using again
those robotic lights this is the dl4000
fixture we use it as a sun source
because it's super sharp this shot of
her tumbling is her on blue screen again
keep a track the Sun has to be in the
same place as where it was on Naomi and
now she's spinning so the main thing was
like while she's spinning and she's got
the reflection of the planet going past
her and then space so planet space
planet space and the Sun turning around
her so we made sure when we designed the
shot that we could have the Sun be in a
place that we could spin it it would not
become a camera shot or column for that
shot she's actually standing on a
scaffold deck wearing the fart-o rig
from Walter
which is basically a Steadicam harness
with a pipe with the camera hard mounted
right onto her we had a 20-foot pipe
with an 800 watt Joker spinning on this
pipe around her so it's kind of to her
left and then one side of that pipe has
the light on it and the other side of
the pipe has a bounce card so they're
two things are spinning so she goes from
hot Sun to bounce from the planet hot
Sun bounce to the planet and in that
case we actually took her visor out so
sometimes we'll take the visors out when
we want we don't want the reflections
because sometimes you want the
reflections and sometimes we don't the
planet reflection going by her as if the
effects element but the light changing
is actually the spinning pipe rigged
with the Joker on it this moment here
when they grab each other that was her
on wires and then they actually do make
contact we shot that with them spinning
sideways so they're actually now hanging
sideways spinning like this and then
when so they can actually grab each
other oh my god initially it starts uh
she's standing still and the lights and
the rig are moving around her yeah so
Naomi my Naomi's flying she's vertical
in the cab the tender cranes doing that
pasture right that's number one it's
number one and then Lucy who's spitting
she's vertical like this and the lights
going like that around her like this
yeah and then when they finally meet at
the end they're actually both spinning
like this lima and in that case in that
case the Sun is is now static in
relation to them but it has to because
they're actually moving oh because
they're actually moving now the Sun the
Sun connects it started in a set-piece
move to a blue-screen stage and then
done in pieces on blue-screen but I had
to all match and all look like it's the
same Sun there's moments there's
freaking moments in there and they're
wearing helmets and everything I
descried about the helmets before is
going on there with the air system and
the microphones and all that there's
points when you have no point of
reference other than the stars in the
background right there's a moment when
they grab each other when you feel the
stars gonna go like this and it's that
sense of like they've grabbed each other
and remember that naomi is still
tethered to a wire so when she grabs
Lucia she kind of goes like this because
the tether has has stopped we always use
blue screen
we very rarely use green screen and the
reason for that is because the blue
Spill tends to if you have it on there
their clothing it doesn't look out of
place because it just feels like ambient
space fill' as much as we can we use
blue screen the way visual effects are
our team figures that stuff out with the
Stars is really great because the Stars
oftentimes are our own
point of reference of motion alrighty
guys there you have it there's yep
Jeremy penning CSC on the show the
expanse again the expanse is currently
streaming on Amazon so if you can see
and checking it out go check it out
there also leave Jeremy's information
down below and ask many questions as
well
also don't forget we have a podcast
discussion with Jeremy betting you can
also find in the link in description
down below check that out as well one of
my favorite podcasts of all time again
thank you to Squarespace for sponsoring
this video if you have a show real
laying around again what are you doing
make a website out of it by going
squarespace.com slash Indy mogul also
for 10% off your first purchase of a
website or domain that's it for me guys
I'm Ted this is in debugging thank you
so much for watching of course could you
guys next time one of these times when
we did one of these things a similar
sequence it was a day last year when I
got a kidney stone my first ever kidney
stone and I hadn't it was like he
literally hit me the morning of going to
work so I had to as I was being wheeled
to the into a car to go to the hospital
I quickly wrote down I'm a piece of
paper like the Sun has to be here for
this shot and for this shot the Sun has
to be here because I hadn't had a chance
to tell anyone that yet but if they did
it they did it and I came back to work
two days later
