DANNY RIMER: OK, the next guys
I'd like to bring up are the
terrible trio as I call them.
Martin, Loic, and Mark, if you
wouldn't mind joining us.
I will let you guys talk
about yourselves first and
then we'll go into Q&A.
But what's interesting
is, actually we'll
start with you, Martin.
So you've actually
created, how many?
Four companies at this point?
MARTIN VARSAVSKY: Eight,
but four in technology.
DANNY RIMER: Four
in technology.
OK, and the other four?
Just quickly, because I don't
know about the other four.
MARTIN VARSAVSKY: The other
four are Urban Capital, that I
started when my friends who
were squatters in New York,
were thinking that it was
cool to move to Tribeca
and SoHo and squat.
And I said, maybe it's cooler
to get a permit and turn
that into a business.
And that was in the early
'80s when I was a student.
I also started an alternative
energy company, which is
building 200 million Euros
worth of wind turbines
and solar farms.
I also started a biotech
company in the '80s
which is now in Canada,
selling AIDS tests.
I can't forget the other one.
But the ones that
are relevant to--
DANNY RIMER: This is the sign
of a true serial entrepreneur.
MARTIN VARSAVSKY: --the ones
that are relevant to the crowd
here in technology are Viatel,
which I started in 1990.
When I sold it, it was
worth $1.2 billion.
I started Jazztel, which is the
second largest publicly traded
Telecom operator in Spain,
also worth around a billion.
I started Ya.com, which I sold
to Deutsche Telekom for 550
million, but they are now again
sold to Vodaphone like this
week for again 500 million.
We invested 38 million.
And FON, which is what I'm
doing now, which is--
DANNY RIMER: --which is going
to get sold for how much?
MARTIN VARSAVSKY: Well,
in the billions.
No, but, no.
I think what I wanted to say
about serial entrepreneurship.
I was listening to Stelios and
the fact that being-- I used to
speak very poorly of people who
were children of rich parents.
But now I have four children,
so-- but I screw my
children with Stelios.
And no, I think that in my
case, I really wanted to make
money because my dad was a
professor, my mother
was a teacher.
And all I heard when I was
growing up was, we have
no money, so that was an
incentive to make money.
I also wanted to do well
because they threw me out of
Argentina and killed my
cousin-- the fascist government
of Videla-- and almost killed
my father and I, so we
were forced to emigrate.
So I wanted to prove that it
was worth for me to be alive
and do something useful.
So I had something to prove.
So I think, being a
serial entrepreneur.
But then somebody else said
that an entrepreneur is
somebody who can't get a job.
And certainly when I was at
Columbia University and I would
go for a job interview and they
would say, how do you see
yourself in 12 years?
And I would say, at
least as your boss.
[LAUGHTER]
MARTIN VARSAVSKY: And I
wouldn't get a job, you know?
I can't understand why.
Somebody says that to
me, they get a job.
Somewhere else.
Anyway, I don't know.
DANNY RIMER: OK, that's good.
That's a good beginning.
Loic.
Tell us a bit about you.
LOIC LE MEUR: So I've given up
trying to measure the size of
my balls with Martin
for a long time.
So he beats me.
But I still have a few
years to go to fight back.
But I created a few
companies-- four, actually.
I don't want to get into all
the details, but like I was--
I sold an advertising
company to BBDO.
I sold one of the top web
hosting companies in
France to France Telecom.
A blog company-- actually was
more like partnering with Six
Apart, which became
the one worldwide.
And the last company
is kind of fun.
I spent three months helping a
president win, Sarkozy, which
is like-- so I took as a
business, and is
very different.
But I was part of his online
campaign and tried to gather
1,000 bloggers behind
him and organize a big
conversation around.
So I'm quite proud of--
DANNY RIMER: And you won.
LOIC LE MEUR: Well, I
didn't win, No, I helped.
But it was very interesting to
me, so that's a blog post-- and
I'm also a blogger-- that's a
blog post I cannot
really write.
I'd love to write, but the
difference between business and
politics, it's so different
that I'm now back into
creating another business.
And, you know what--
DANNY RIMER: So you've decided
not to take any role in
the Sarkozy government?
LOIC LE MEUR: That would be
very arrogant of me to say,
no, I did not decide to.
No, I mean I just helped.
I announced at the beginning
I would just take a few
months to help my country.
Because I think France needs to
go out like a-- well, let's
not get into politics.
But just one thing.
Get out of lying to people, to
the young, by telling them they
can succeed by working less,
for example, is a huge mistake.
And that's why it's been four
years, and that's why I decided
to back him and support him.
That's one of the reasons and
I could devote the time.
And I said I would go
back to business.
But it was very interesting
to see how those
politicians behave.
They are-- he's very well
surrounded, and he takes the
internet very seriously.
DANNY RIMER: So tell us about
your-- you were talking about
how politics and
entrepreneurialism
are different.
Tell us about your 10
lessons of what not to do.
LOIC LE MEUR: Yeah, I'll
do it in a sentence.
Basically, I'm pretty sure Mark
and Martin are also meeting
people all the time who ask--
you know, young entrepreneurs
who ask-- how can I
create a company?
You know, tell me
how I should do it.
And so, I do it by reverse,
like what you should do to make
sure you never create anything.
And so these are,
like, very simple.
First, wait for the
idea of your life.
You can wait forever, right?
It's like, it's not
happening this way.
And then Nicholas said if it
doesn't happen that way, you
cannot-- you know, it's like
dream about the revolutionary
idea and then wait.
People wait all their lives.
It's just a start doing things.
It's only execution
that matters.
I guess you can take any domain
and Stelios has proven it with
businesses where everything was
done, or looked to be done.
So that's the first one.
The second one, very strong,
is don't share your idea.
As an investor, you get emails.
Still today, I get every day
emails which are like, and
please sign the NDA
before, right?
And then I send you
my business model.
It's super secret, be
careful, I don't want
you to tell anybody.
And if they send this to me,
then I don't even bother.
It's like, so I think the new
rule is share as much as you
can because people will tell
you, will help you, and
will criticize you.
If everybody tells you
you will fail, then
probably do it anyway.
But so another one, quickly,.
Someone did it already.
Of course, somebody's
probably doing it.
There are no
revolutionary ideas.
It's only execution.
So somebody did it
is not the reason.
You will always find something.
Focus on market research
and don't execute.
I think the best market
research right now is better.
Why do we have invoice
Web 2.0 trends?
Everything is better.
Because we try things, we do
them with the customers rather
than being secretly in the room
doing market research and
trying to invent something
that doesn't exist.
We experiment.
I mean, look at Flickr,
look at YouTube.
They start with the customers,
they improve it, they
accept, openly, criticism.
And they do it in beta--
it's very, very different.
Then, plan a huge marketing.
Look at YouTube,
word of mouth only.
So if you get the beta version
right like Gmail did,
then you get the users.
I will not go through all
of them, but like, don't
talk to your competitors.
I hear that all the time.
Like, criticize your
competitors, which is
a big difference with
politics, by the way.
In politics, you have to--
I was struck by that.
I was on a panel with a
socialist friend, and he had
to criticize me or somebody
from another party.
He had to do that, and
like, we could not agree.
Whereas, I think it's like
very different today.
We have to, you know, talk to
all the-- to everybody and
learn from everybody's
mistakes.
And Nicholas said the
other sales stuff here.
But, like, try to focusing on
making money for yourself
is a sure way to fail.
And I know a few entrepreneurs,
unfortunately, who
did that mistake.
They tried to get to rich as
the focus, right, rather than
trying to change the world
as Nikesh pointed out.
So here are a few, you see,
which are very obvious.
DANNY RIMER: OK, I guess I'll
have to refine my pitch
after hearing this.
LOIC LE MEUR: Oh,
and talk to VC's.
DANNY RIMER: Talk to VC's.
Is that-- OK.
Mark, speaking of VC's.
Welcome to the club, Mark.
MARK: To the dark side?
DANNY RIMER: That's right.
MARK: So my story is a
"we" story because we
have three brothers.
And we always dreamed of
starting a company together
when we were 12, 14, and 16.
I have two younger brothers.
And our problem was that we
wanted first to be an
entrepreneur and then had to
find an idea and a
product on which we could
start our company.
So, it was in '98 when we all
were ready, right after
university, and we said,
where to go and where
to find our idea?
And we basically took the next
plane and went to Silicon
Valley and worked there as
interns in various start-up
companies, spent the evenings
in Stanford Business School and
Stanford Engineering School
listening to people like Steve
Jobs telling the graduates at
Stanford Business School,
forget investment banking,
forgot consulting, go to Europe
and find love, which meant for
us, go to the U.S. and find
your idea and start it back in
Europe, which then turned
out to be the eBay idea.
And, in '98, late '98, we, of
course, like many others,
didn't realize the magnitude
of eBay's business model.
They just had gone IPO.
But it was one of many, many
ideas Viveli talked about.
And so we went back in January
'99, didn't have a clue were to
get the programmers and IT
people to program the
technology, didn't have a clue
where to get the money to start
the company, didn't have a
clue where to find people
to start the company.
So bit by bit, it
came together.
And then, February 7 we started
at our online auction platform.
We competed with big companies
like BIS Web and Metro, which
is a big German retailer.
And everyone told us, you have
no chance, they will crush you,
their budget's much bigger.
And we said, well,
we'll just go for it.
If we don't manage to
succeed, we will close
it down in six months.
We tried to not lose too
much money, but we'll
give it a shot.
What can we lose?
We have good educations, so
probably we'll get a proper job
afterwards, and we just tried.
So we went for it.
We became market leader
within three months because
we sold our own toys.
We had liquidity on the market
from day one, so my roller
skates and my brother's
bicycles and CD's were on
the platform from day one.
And others, of course, like
the big managers from big
corporations don't
do such stuff.
So we were market leaders.
And then eBay came.
And, you know, Pierre Omidyar,
the founder of eBay, he
obviously was our big hero from
the Silicon Valley times.
And three months into the game,
right out of university, if
someone writes you a big
check, you probably say yes.
Well, we said yes and
it probably was one of
the biggest mistakes.
Because eBay by now is the
largest international
marketplace-- sorry, eBay
Germany is the largest
international marketplace
for eBay, probably worth
$10 billion by now.
Some people say it's bigger
than Amazon worldwide.
We then led eBay Germany
for another year-- went
into new countries.
And then said, we're
entrepreneurs, we want
to start something new.
So we thought, what
other big trends?
And at that time, early
2000, it was broadband.
The rise of broadband and
the rise of wireless.
We'd just had the UMTS
auction, the 3G auctions
in Germany and the U.K.
where in Germany the big
carriers, the big telecom
operators, paid a 100
million Deutschmark-- 100
billion Deutschmark.
So we thought, you know, those
guys, those big corporate guys,
they probably don't know how to
fill the big pie, how to create
content for the cell phone.
So we said, why
don't we try it?
And we partnered with big
German and now European
electronic retailers and
wanted to build the Yahoo
for the cell phone.
And it quickly turned out that
people don't care about weather
or stock prices or sports news
on the cell phone, because
you have that everywhere.
You have it in the newspaper,
on the radio, on TV, on
the fixed line, internet.
You don't need that
on the cell phone.
Maybe if you're on the
road once a year.
But you don't need
it regularly.
But there was one thing
which caught our attention.
That was silly ringtones.
Beep, beep, beep.
Really horrible noise,
and no one liked it.
We were just growing out of
the target group, which
is probably 16 to 24.
And there were also these
grey and green pictures.
No one could really
recognize what it meant.
Is it a face or is
it a character?
And we said, whoa, people are
willing to pay money for this
kind of little entertainment
and it only works
on cell phones.
It doesn't work on a PC.
It doesn't work on a TV.
So we focused on this.
Because we had the vision--
and vision is probably
too big of a word.
We kind of saw that eventually
it would turn into
a real music file.
And it would be the reason MP3
or even MP4 quality, and it
would be-- with the pictures,
it would be high resolution
colored screens.
So for us, it was kind of
obvious that down the road,
there would be more
high-quality entertainment.
And so we said,
let's go for it.
And then we had big discussions
with the music labels, and
you all know they are greedy.
So they wanted-- the second you
tell them that you make money
with their stuff, they want,
basically, all of it, and
you probably have to
pay on top of it.
So we always said, you know,
we're not making a lot of
money, we're not profitable,
we're still building
the business.
So they gave us OK rates.
But we then thought, why not
try, since we lived in Berlin,
that Berlin was probably one of
the greatest cities in Europe
right now because there's cheap
living space and many artists
come to Europe-- to Berlin.
We said, why not try to
create our own ringtones.
So I am happy to bring to you
the original crazy frog,
not localized to U.S.
standards, not censored.
So we didn't cut off the little
thing, which happened in
the U.S., which we had to.
And please show them the
movie in case someone has
forgotten how it looks like.
[VIDEO PLAYBACK]
[END VIDEO PLAYBACK]
MARK: So two remarks, short
remarks, on the crazy frog.
The crazy frog was designed by
two young artists in Berlin,
didn't cost that much money.
You see, we don't spend so much
money on the color and the
make-up of this video because
this is direct selling.
People are basically--
especially young people-- they
switched on the TV screen
because we were constantly
advertising, and they used it
like their internet
destination site.
So they switch on the TV, they
don't have to wait for their
father to let them
use his computer.
They just go to the TV screen,
type in 5 times 3, and then
have a crazy frog
on their phone.
The crazy frog became such a
phenomenon that it was the
number one hit in the CD single
charts in 25 countries,
including the U.S.,
for four weeks.
And that showed to us that
there's a lot of-- you can do a
lot outside the traditional
media and create your own
content if it is targeted to a
special group and to
a special device.
Now, quick word on
what we did then.
We sold--
DANNY RIMER: I think Nikesh
has been kind enough to give
everyone a copy of Crazy
Frog; is that right?
MARK: So quickly,
we took Jamba!
into basically worldwide
in the U.S. and Russia,
Asia, Australia, which
was a big surprise.
We would have thought
that would have been
copied much faster.
But the good thing about video
as well as TV advertising is
that many people think that TV
advertising doesn't pay back.
And what we did is we tested it
with $10,000 and then with
$100,000 and then
with a million.
And at some point in '05,
we spent $70 million
in one quarter on TV
advertising worldwide.
And just to give you a figure
that ringtones by now is a
serious category, a serious
music category, there
are several hundred
millions in turnover.
Jamba!'s doing-- did in '05
and is doing even more now.
DANNY RIMER: So Mark.
Let me just cut you off briefly
there because one of the things
that interests me is that
actually if you look at the
mobile space for investing,
there are very few consumer
mobile successes.
Martin, you invented callback
back in the '90s, but you
haven't done any mobile
actual play since then.
You haven't created a
mobile-related play since then.
So I would love to get
your thoughts on that.
All of you are passionate
about the internet.
All of you are looking
for big opportunities.
Jamba! was a great success, but
we don't see many out there.
Why is that?
MARTIN VARSAVSKY: I think that
what we're doing at FON is, if
it's not mobile, it's nomadic.
Let's say we built the
largest wifi network in
the world in a year.
And we're adding like 20,000
hotspots a month, which is
the size of TMobile wifi.
But TMobile has wifi, and
it has mobile, right?
And we only have wifi.
Why?
Because there's an
international scam that's
called GSM licenses.
And if you have them, you're
part of it and if you don't
have them, you're left out.
And that's why, there hasn't
been so much-- so many
new things going on.
But now there's wifi 802.11n,
there's WiMAX, there's
parts of the spectrum that
haven't been given out.
So in terms of telecom, I think
finally the game is opening up.
And in terms of content, I
would disagree with you, Danny,
because I think there's
been a lot of good stuff
that's being created.
And certainly Jamba! is an
example of an incredible new
category, that who would have
guessed that people would have
paid fortunes for
that silly frog.
DANNY RIMER: Loic,
any thoughts?
LOIC LE MEUR: Yeah, no I
think it's-- the main
reason is the standard.
There is no standard
with the phones.
I mean, if you have to port a
web application to a phone,
you need to translate it
into how many systems?
You have Symbian and then you
have a BlackBerry, you have,
you know, it's just too many.
On the web, you just do one.
I think that's the main reason.
It's terrible when you want
to have a service there.
Except ringtones, right?
MARK: Yeah.
I think the screen
is just too small.
It's just not fun to do much
on those small screens.
And even them getting
a little bit bigger.
It's just so difficult to
do serious entertaining
stuff on it.
And then, also, as Martin said,
you're walking a walled garden.
You always need the operator to
work with you if you want to do
something which is integrated
into the network and
really interesting.
Even presence, you have to
work with the operator.
With a fixed line, internet,
it's so much easier.
You just plug in your server,
you program your site, you put
it up, and then the
world can see it.
So we have not seen until today
something besides ringtones and
maybe video as the next
generation of pictures,
which has really caught
attention in that space.
GPS is probably bringing-- I
just saw yesterday the Nokia
phone, the N95 with GPS built
in, and then Nokia is providing
this great location software,
these great maps, et cetera.
That is going to be a
serious service, which
is going to be used.
But I think, in the end, we all
like to use the internet
either-- or the online either--
very efficient, and then the
screen again is too small.
Or we would like to
be entertained.
And then, again, the
screen is too small.
The capacity is not big
enough, plus, you have
to work with big guys.
DANNY RIMER: I mean, what's
also interesting is that the
N95 was supposed to ship with
wifi, and most operators have
shut down the wifi capability.
Surprisingly, there are 110,000
phones in the U.K., contraband,
that have wifi functionality.
But there are millions that
are out there that should've
shipped with that and don't.
So it's going to be an
interesting sort of challenge
and battle that goes on between
the openness of wifi and
the closed system of GSM.
MARK: And I also think there
was and is still too much hope
for location-based services.
I mean, who of us wants to
walk down High Street and
get a message every second.
You know, come into McDonald's,
you get a burger free.
And come into Marks & Spencer,
and you get a sandwich free.
And you just don't want it.
LOIC LE MEUR: But that's
a big trend on mobile,
which is happening,
which is microblogging.
So how many of you
know Twitter?
OK, so you know Twitter.
So I think-- everybody.
So no, it's a very big trend.
Very interesting that you were
mentioning, OK, get close to
this shop and you get an
advertising message.
But in this case, it's
us telling the world
what we're doing.
OK, I'm going to lunch.
And I'm back from lunch.
Very interesting.
You know, it's like useless.
Pointless.
So on my Twitter, I have
more than 500 followers.
And what I sent them
as a message is, why
do you read this?
So this is a very weird
trend, which is interesting.
And I think we see the web and
the mobile merging for both
instantaneous communications.
Like email is getting a lot
broken-- thanks to Gmail,
it's better, but-- because
we all have too many.
So here, it's like grab
me now or never, right?
So it's a very interesting
trend which I think are
making both converging.
DANNY RIMER: OK, if I could
ask the three of you
to join the stage.
And while the three of them
join, anyone who wants to ask a
question, it would be great if
you could either stand up or
go to the microphone stand.
There's a question right here.
AUDIENCE: So, especially
with Danny here on stage.
What is the role of the VC?
How important has it been for
you to pick the right one or
wrong one, and how much time
should serial entrepreneurs
spend on that?
LOIC LE MEUR: Now
we moderating you.
MARTIN VARSAVSKY:
I'll volunteer this.
I think probably, maybe I'm the
one who's raised the most money
from the most diverse
group of VC's.
[UNINTELLIGIBLE PHRASE]
like the early '90s.
And Danny's one of a kind.
I'd like to say that.
He's very good.
But I'll use--
LOIC LE MEUR: Now
tell us the real--
MARTIN VARSAVSKY: No no no.
He is the real one.
You know, I don't bullshit.
The GSM operators are scum,
and he's the right way.
But I'll say why.
And it's not just Danny.
There's a group of VC's like
that, very few, but there are.
There's some who say, OK, sort
of the pan-spermia theory
of life, you know.
You throw your sperm
everywhere, and somewhere,
life may spring.
I've had previous VC's who
endorsed the pan-spermia
theory of life.
I say this because I don't know
if Mark [? Shadoworth? ?]
is here, but he reminded me
of that theory yesterday.
I thought it was
very interesting.
Not applied to VC's though.
But, there's the
nurturing VC's.
The VC's who are there and are
helping you, are bringing
you contacts, are giving
you ideas, nurturing.
So my advice to anyone who's
starting a business is,
really interview your VC.
Like the people-- like
Eric says he interviews--
Google interviews people.
With the LAX theory, that
six hours at an airport
stuck with them.
OK, think.
You're six hours at an
airport stuck with your VC.
Could you survive?
Would you hate him?
I think that's applicable.
DANNY RIMER: I'm very good
at collecting coffee.
Getting you Jamba
Juice at the LAX.
That's the value add.
You guys, if you
want to give color.
MARK: I think the most
important point that is why
VC's still are interesting and
matter to serial entrepreneurs
because, let's face if.
We all have been there, we've
done it, we know what the
challenges are, we could do it
alone, we don't need a helping
hand, which is certainly
different when you do
it the first time.
Why serial entrepreneurs still
need very good VC's like you,
Danny, and there are very few
in Europe and there are
actually also very few in
the U.S. if you're honest.
You just must make sure
that he really understands
your business.
And that he really is
a sparing partner.
That is the original
idea of the VC.
Because all the VC's
money is green.
OK?
Everyone has money nowadays.
And it's not about who
gives you the most money.
It's really who you can talk
with about your business
and who really helps you.
Because as an entrepreneur,
you are alone.
I have the luck to
have two brothers.
Nicholas has the luck
to have Janice.
But if you are-- still you're
alone even if you're two or
three people, and you must make
serious decisions and important
decisions with basically no
information at all whether
to go right or left.
And if you then have a serious
sparing partner who has seen
many other businesses, many
businesses with that kind of
important decisions,
then it's great.
That is exactly the guy you
need because there's no one
else who can, who can help you.
Of course you have friends.
And of course, today I could
call Martin, Loic, and Nicholas
and ask, but they probably will
say, no, I have my own stuff.
Leave me alone.
But if he is invested in my
business, he is interested.
And if then he is good, he
probably will help me.
STELIOS HAJI-IOANNOU: Can
I ask you a question?
How do you deal with the
problem that most money are now
chasing buyouts rather than
early-stage investments?
I mean, the asset class is
shifting away from early-stage
investments into buying boots
and buying TDC and that
sort of size of deal.
DANNY RIMER: I'm very
thankful of that.
I'm very thankful.
STELIOS HAJI-IOANNOU: So
you're one of a shrinking--
DANNY RIMER: Yeah, we have
minute funds of 300 million
euros to put to work, which
really, in relative terms,
especially in Europe,
is very small.
So what it means is that,
thankfully-- and this has been
the idea of Index but of a
number of other firms, that the
level of innovation that goes
on in Europe is totally
disconnected with the amount of
venture capital that actually
is injected to back
entrepreneurs.
So in relative terms to the
U.S., for instance, where $25
billion is put to work in
venture-backed companies
every year, it's less than
$4 billion in Europe.
STELIOS HAJI-IOANNOU: When
did you raise your fund?
Could you raise it again,
that's my question?
DANNY RIMER: Yeah, I hope so.
The last one took three weeks.
And actually--
STELIOS HAJI-IOANNOU:
When was it?
DANNY RIMER: It was in April.
Or March.
And actually, the notion
that we kept was,
let's keep it small.
Let's stick to our knitting
and continue doing
what we're doing.
But it is going to be
very interesting to
see what happens.
Not only on the private equity
side, but actually, probably
the majority of you are tending
to make a number of investments
on your own and acting
as angels/VC's.
In the case of Mark, it's very
obvious that he and his
brothers are doing that.
LOIC LE MEUR: And you're
competing, right?
DANNY RIMER: I guess so.
MARTIN VARSAVSKY: But one thing
I wanted to say is that Google
said yesterday publicly to all
of us, that close to half of
the profits they make come from
Europe, which means that we
make the Silicon Valley
companies so wealthy and
successful, we are responsible
for half of their market cap.
I think it's time we fund our
own companies and some of that
market cap stays in Europe.
DANNY RIMER: I agree with that.
So, any other question
in the audience?
Please.
AUDIENCE: You mentioned when
you were talking that when you
start a business, one of the
big issues is that there are a
lot of big competitors or big
companies already
in those spaces.
When you look at online for the
past four or five, maybe six
years, the successes have not
come from established
companies.
They've all come from companies
that have started up
from next to nothing.
Why do you think
that's been the case?
And do you think that's
set to continue as well?
NICHOLAS: I can answer that.
So, my theory is that you're
much better starting with a
blank sheet of paper than a big
balance sheet and revenues and
customers and market share.
Because what happens now is
that there's so much-- the new
technology and the internet are
enabling you to do things,
solve an old problem in
completely different ways.
And that's usually means
that it's much cheaper.
It's very difficult to be an
established company,
established revenue streams,
to disrupt yourself.
I go to-- you know, if you are
the CEO for a public company,
go to your board, say, oh, by
the way we're going to
completely disrupt ourselves,
and we're going to have a big
decrease for a few years or a
year or so of revenue.
It's very, very difficult.
So you have all these
different constraints as
an established company.
And what happens today, the
infrastructure, the internet
infrastructure, is so amazing
because you can-- not only can
you use, like if you have
a great idea, Skype was a
very good example of that.
And, you know, YouTube
was also a good example.
You have many others.
If you have something which is
great and you just put it out
on the internet, people
just discover it.
And you don't need to have this
massive amount of marketing.
In the old days, it was all
about building up a sales and
marketing infrastructure,
advertising your services,
getting into retail.
You don't need to do
these things anymore.
And also, with all these things
we talk about Web 2.0 is that a
lot of building blocks
are already there.
So when you innovate, you
can innovate on top of
other technologies.
So it's actually very
lightweight to produce
new services.
DANNY RIMER: So if we could
just have the slides
that I prepared.
Because we're now on to
the topic of Web 2.0.
We're on to the topic
of-- as you saw in the--
NICHOLAS: Are we going
to introduce Web 3.0?
DANNY RIMER: Web
3.0 starts here.
Actually, no.
I think that Loic
started it last year.
If we could have the
slides, that'd be great.
We also saw that in that
introductory video.
What I wanted to focus on,
hopefully, is sort of the fact
that when you think about Web
2.0, and actually Valleywag
helped us with this, which is
basically the Wall Street
Journal of the internet, What
you realize is that with Web
2.0, the entrepreneurs and
successful entrepreneurs are
getting younger and younger.
So, Nicholas, you're very
aging in this whole context.
And if go to the next slide--
NICHOLAS: That's without
a tie, yesterday.
DANNY RIMER: That's right.
No, of course.
Well, you're 25 is
my understanding.
We go to the next slide.
This is actually mostly
Valleywag's information.
Stalios, I believe you started
easyJet when you were 28.
STELIOS HAJI-IOANNOU: 28, yeah.
DANNY RIMER: Jim Clark has had
quite a bit of success as he's
gotten older, although I think
that he hit the jackpot at 50
and Shutterfly I don't think he
would call a success
at this point.
But he's too busy
sailing, in any case.
But the point, and if you see
it on the next slide, I've
actually done a visual really
showing you what I can do.
Just like that guy yesterday,
the Swede, I can do slides too.
OK, that's it.
We can take that one away.
Thank you very much
for showing them.
But I did want to bring up
the point about, how do you
continue to be entrepreneurial?
How do you deal with the fact
that there's some young punk
who's actually making money on
poker in his dorm room and
starting a business, that is
looking at what you guys have
done as success, and want to
take over what you have
successfully done, in fact.
Stelios, you start.
STELIOS HAJI-IOANNOU:
It's a problem.
Yeah, the next innovation in
travel is going to come from
another 28 year old, not me.
Probably.
Public companies-- an early
question was, why don't
great innovative ideas,
disruptive ideas, come
from public companies?
I have a bit of experience
sitting on the board of two
public companies I created.
And the whole system is
designed to preserve money,
not to go and risk it.
And you're supposed to focus
and you're supposed to only do
what you're supposed to doing.
Otherwise, shareholders
get very upset.
And it's only during bubble
years that you're allowed
to go out and diversify.
And exceptionally, companies
are allowed to invest
in an adjacent sector.
And sometimes, we get
catastrophic results
as well: Enron.
At the end of the day, I think
it is the next 28 year old
that's going to come up with
the next idea because we can't
afford the time and we have
to preserve what we have.
It's a jungle, isn't it?
It is a survival.
UNKNOWN PANELIST: I think we're
all too used to this new
starting up businesses
every 10 seconds.
And if you think about some of
our favorite brands in the
world, like Coca Cola, or what
we were talking about yesterday
in the advertising space, do
not forget the power of your
brand and the relationship
with your customer.
Sure, people are going to
come up and try and copy you
and do what you're doing.
But if you focus on that
end-user and on what you're
good at and on the relationship
you have with your users, as
long as you're converting them
to come back yet time and again
and for them to tell their
friends to come back, you can
build a long-term brand.
I don't think that we
should be thinking in
such short-term basis.
DANNY RIMER: But brands
get built overnight.
I mean, you know, Martin was
saying this yesterday that
Google is the most popular
brand-- or the most valuable
brand in the world.
And I'd be curious to know how
much Google has actually spent
on marketing in its first
three, four years to
build that brand.
UNKNOWN PANELIST: But we
have such an amazing
service from them.
DANNY RIMER: That's right.
Martin, any thoughts
on the youth side?
MARTIN VARSAVSKY: I think it
also depends on the rivals you
pick and the fight that you
pick and the environment
in which you move in.
But I have had experiences like
building Ya.com where the
demographic was 16 to 25,
and by then I was 39,
when I started it.
And I think it's an issue,
can you connect to your
demographics more than, why
wasn't Ya.com started by
people in that demographic.
So we did these ads where we
had people pissing on TV and
saying Ya.com, and everybody
hated those ads, but our
demographics, they
loved those ads.
They liked the idea
of pissing on TV.
And I think that-- which
was a subliminal message,
go to the internet.
DANNY RIMER: I think you have
a turtle one on YouTube?
MARTIN VARSAVSKY: Yeah,
the turtle ones.
Yeah, we had those turtles,
you know, having sex.
And he was-- so the question
is, how do you reach your
demographics, not
how old are you.
Can you connect to their people
who you are talking to?
And I guess RedStone-- you
know, I don't know if
the guy's still running
Viacom-- I was checking.
But I mean, you can have guys
in the eighties reaching
kids who are teens.
So the question is, can you
connect to your demographics.
DANNY RIMER: Yep.
I think we have time for
one or two last questions.
Otherwise, you guys are
probably all hungry.
I would like to thank
our fantastic panel.
So, there's an hour break where
you're supposed to catch lunch.
And we start promptly after an
hour, so I guess 2:15, With
Jonathan Zittrain's panel which
is all about digital youth
culture, which should be
fascinating, in fact.
Thank you.
