There are 3 police detectives who say
that around that time among others mr. Demmink and to other officers of justice and high officials
was a suspect
I'm interested in the fact that a highly placed official in the justice department
or people so high up are so easily subjectable to blackmail by these kind of practices
it's the end of the rule of law
when they say there is no proof that the man has ever been there
than you think ; this can't be true !
and then you start to think ; Anne Frank Park, the Rolodex investigation,
Everytime you see that the cases are being blocked from higher up
This is something that the whole country should hear !
I've red that a german boy died on a sailboat
because high officials where involved the murder stayed concealed
In fact this is secret information
How can it be that the Netherlands don't investigate mr. Demmink ?
For someone who is a suspect in many of these cases of sex with minors
it's very strange that mr. Demmink keeps getting a away, and getting away
In that sense I don't have any faith left in the Justice department
What would happen...
when Demmink gets caught ?
When this case goes to trial the whole house of cards will come down
We can't waist anymore time, the scheduel is full
So let's get started straight away with Joris Demmink
The secretary general of the department of Justice
The highest ranking officier above the Justice and Police department
And his position of power never heard the aquisation
I'll say it loud : raping little boys for many years
You can ask Adele van der Plas ; Why is Baybasin locked up?
And does the Turkish government hold this information over the Dutch government ?
Before you start watching this video
a warning
this is going to be a very heavy podcast
where you will hear stuff that you might not be used to
So here by : You have been warned
This is all happening in the Netherlands
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Dear friends, and listeners and viewing audience
Welcome to a brand new podcast here on this channel
and today I am having a conversation with none other than ; Adele van der Plas
She's the lawyer of the to Turkish boys who pressed charges against mr. Joris Demmink
for raping them when the where 13 years old
She defends her client mr. Baybasin since 2001
She is mentioned in my song 'Kamervragen 2'
you could say that the Baybasin case
is somewhat of her life's work
Today we are going to talk about Joris Demmink and than about the Baybasin case
And who better to join us than
Adele van der Plas
- Hello
- Hi
Thank you so much for your hospitality
You are most welcome
Good to be here in your beautifull office on the Amsterdam canals
Including herbal tea, and a small garden and a cat
We feel right at home. Thank you, thank you
Before we start to talk about the baybasin case ...
and the Demmink case
Let's talk about current events for a minuit
What are your thoughts about the virus situation ?
As a human being, as a lawyer
As a human being there was a little panic in March
for a lot of people you know
then there where these emergency laws
and now we are in a sort of ending of this madness and
and people are getting restless and saying we can't go on like this ...
It's a huge blow to the economy
and for all the people who are not able to do their jobs because of the new regulations
and that leads to protests and that is very logical
but
yeah, how I experienced it personally
It effected me less
but uh ...
what you see now, and that is a legal discussion
Is that there is a new law in place
the rush laws
and yes we have to be real cautious with those
You mentioned in another podcast of yours the name (Yuval) Harari
the Israeli Philosopher
and right when this crisis started he said :
watch out people : because malicious governments could use this
to maximize their control over the people
The more control over the people the better
and the new RUSH law
and there is a lot of legal critisism
even from the senate and the bar association
they are saying this new law
gives one minister the power to effectively
continuously undermining the constitution
And we shouldn't want that in our society
And that is the dangerous moment we are in right now
And the new law goes a long way ... If you don't do this the government can do that to you ....
They can detain you
Yes ! One minister of cabinet
One minister gets the power
And he is suppose to have the parliament behind him but they don't have anything to say in this matter
And that's a big trap door in this new RUSH law
And parliament was suppose to talk about the new law in september but ...
They rushed to get it on the agenda quiker
Because in the eyes of the goverment... no one knows exactly what's going on
No one knew anything. It was walking in the dark.
and, and, they rushed the law thru parliament but...
I am glad it is heavily criticized
- Was there enough criticism ?
Well...
from what I have red from the senate and the bar association and ...
and they all say that this is very dangerous
when there are laws that limit our constitutional rights
In the hands of one minister
That is suppose to be a discussion thru two chambers of elected officials
with discussions within those chambers
And I don't know if you have red this but also local officals
are saying already with all the local rush laws in place
You can't sit more than 2 feet away from each other
I don't know if we are breaking the law right now
Hell yes we are breaking the law
At this point we act as one household, but anyway ...
but... uh ...
even local officials say that it has been mandatory rules imposed by the mayor for months
and safety procedures and such
But we would like to involved in the discussion
So I think it is really important to make sure we keep the discussion ongoing
and that it doesn't affect our constitutional rights
Like they propose in the new RUSH law
Like in the draft of the new law
So in this RUSH law it says that this one minister ...
can shut down everything ?
It says if he has the feelings of the other ministers on his side
Yeah right !
that is not what we do in a democracy
As long as he thinks in the spirit of the game everyting is all right ...
Yes than it's all right
And that they can continue this law indefinitely
and the chamber has nothing to say about it
And that should not be written in to the law like this
and we already had laws on grounds of an emergency that made it possible for the government to do this last march
So there where laws in place but those laws only apply under an emergency
And is there still an emergency ?
Well ?
Or has it ever been at all ?
Well we don't know that and that's the problem.
So how can it be that people can sit close to each other on airplanes ?
I don't understand. I'm not going on a plane any time soon.
They say you have to wear a mooth mask and another plastic mask over your face
- Yes.
and then one peanut at a time under your mask ...
Yeah I guess so if you like that kind of thing ....
Mmm...
Is there a chance that the 1,5 meter rule could turn in to the 5 meter rule ?
Well see ... that is exactly the problem that one minister and his department get to make that decision exclusively
And that can't happen !
- What I noticed was ..
That is what Yuval Harari warned us about in the beginning of this crisis : BE AWARE !
The control is becoming totalitarian
And that was his big message ... and ...
But for this total control you need a system in place that works properly ?
Yes and this kind of totalitarian laws would fit that narrative
And you should be aware of this
and, and the people should make as much noise about this as they possibly can
and institutions and organizations like is happening today
Do you think the silent majority in the Netherland will speak out ?
That clearly state ; Hey I don't consent to what is happening ?
What I see here is a people kept in a deep sleep.
And who just to lazy and a sleep to lift a finger. Sometimes that is a feeling that consumes my thoughts...
It could be but you also see the protests.
And there are people who are standing up and making themselves heard
And the system designed for the minister to discuss the law with the bar association and
and what does the counsel of Senate think of the law
And even the counsel of senate has concerns
And these are mechanisms for balance
but I also think that the people should stand up
but people are also very shaken up
because no one seems to know what kind of disease this actually is
And I'm like well
If it is flu season
I always keep my distance and wash my hands more often
And I'll take some extra herbs to boost the immune system
I don't know if it works but it works a little ...
With a little common sense you can do a lot by yourself
And I do think that we handled that properly in the Netherlands
To call on people's common sense.
With the exemption of the institutions that had to shut down
That is of course a very tough situation for all the people working
One of the things that scared me recently in one of MP Mark Rutte's speeches was
I don't know if it was the last one or the one before but he said something to the extend of :
I'm not a tiran
I can't tell the people what to do
and then he said that the army and the police force wouldn't be behind him ...
- Laugh - And when he said that it sounded to me like he actually checked !
As if he actually made a round of phonecalls asking the army and police chiefs ...
Ey yo guys ... are you with me or what ? I'm thinking about going full tiran on the country ....
That was the way it came across to me
Well he is the leader of the liberal party, at least liberal in name
and he has to keep up appearances
So he can't put to much rules on the people being a liberal in name
but well the rules and regulations are increasing rapidly ...
That is the situation now.
The cases you have been working on for a long time, unfortunately we should say
I can imagine you have been wanting to close both cases for a long time
- Absolutely !
One of them is mr. Joris Demmink
And I started to mention this case in my lyrics back in 2012 (factcheck : 2015 !)
8 years ago already. And in a recent song called  "Een voor allen"
I drop one more little hint for the listeners
'Ten male underage prostitutes in the back of his government vehicle'
but that is more a reference to the song 'Kamervragen 2'
for the people watching this who have no idea who this man is ...
Who is Joris Demmink ?
Joris Demmink is a high government official within the Justice department.
He was for a very long time
And come 2002 he was even promoted to secretary general of the department of justice
that means the highest public official within the justice department
Only the minister of justice above him ?
Yes only the minister above you. But you know a great deal more than the minister
because ministers come and go
So there (in that position) lies great power
and before that he was director general at the department of international relations within the justice department
and before that I think he was at the department  of defence
but a man with a huge career within the system of power so to speak
So within the system he would be a true system manager ?
If we can put it like that. - Yes we can
The list I have here is extensive ...
The main acquisitions against ...
Joris Demmink, it's a pretty full list
Having sex with underage boys on the backseat of his government car
driving his goverment car to the Czech Republic to visit the Pinoccio Bar
In Prague , where underage boys offered him sexual services
That mr. Joris Demmink allegedly raped two underage boys in Turkye
That he regularly ordered  a staffer within the justice department to 'fix' Thai boys for him
That mr. Joris Demmink together with 3 other senior justice officials
where suspects themselves in a police investigation
looking in to organized sexual abuse of minors
where the chief officer of the KLPD leaked the investigation to one of the suspects
and the observations and wire tapes where thereby made useless
and that investigation was stopped.
and this last part is about the 'rolodex' investigation right ?
- uhum ...
And in that investigation there is a wiretap recorded
where we hear the voice of mr. Joris Demmink right ?
allegedly the voice of Joris Demmink ?
Well , uh
there is a lot to say about mr. Demmink
And if you read it as one big list it looks like a lot ...
Because it is a lot ....
and uhm...
I became involved in this case
I never even heard the name Demmink
through the Baybasin case
because I defend mr. Baybasin and I got a lot of evidence from Turkye ...
that through the blackmail of a high ranked Dutch government official
The Turkish government fabricated a case against mr. Baybasin
And that is how I first came aware of the case of mr. Demmink
and after that I dove deep in to case
and it was in 2007
when I first heard about these alligations
and what I know is from reading and studying witness reports etc. etc.
and yeah well the government car
with the underage boys on the backseat
where Demmink allegedly had sex with
that is something that through my knowledge of the witness testimonies
There where complaints. His drivers complained to their boss so that is correct.
Uh uh , Czech Republic, the Pinoccio Bar
I didn't look into it myself but other people did a great deal of research into this
He had a young Czech boyfriend, not against the law ...
but that boyfriend made a porn movie with even younger boys
that fact alone is alarming and interesting especially if it concerns one of the highest government officials in the department of justice
That is what Henk Krol testified to in his witness testimony in 2014
- and that Demmink was pretty proud of this tape ?
I don't know that, I never talked to him about that personally but it could be ...
And that Henk Krol got this video tape ...
... or at least he was offered the tape
Yes that's right. Through Jan Wabeke.
We will get to him in a little bit...
And further more about the Czech Republic what is interesting ...
in my files for instance there is a statement which is sealed at the notary
A statement from a businessmen that states that he was in Prague in the 90's
He was in Prague working.
and got an invitation from the Dutch embassy
and then visited an afer-party
and he states he was introduced to a gentlemen who was suppose to be with the embassy ...
'This is mr. Demmink'
and I saw
he was in a corner half behind the curtains 'getting busy' with little boys ...
and i'm not going in to the details here and now
So these are all things that we have accumulated in our files over the years
But how you described it just now : the abuse happened openly !
Well there is a witness testimony of this incident.
and I once send all the files to the team
that was 'suppose' to investigate
mr. Demmink's past. But no actions where ever taken.
But when you look at this it looks like they are not even trying to hide it !
I mean like you know, I visited an after party once of twice in my life but
I always needed more than a curtain.
You know what I mean ?
Maybe he felt free in Prague
It was after the fall of the 'iron wall' that Prague was a very liberal place
for these kind of excesses so to speak
Let's back up a little ...
uhm
When did Joris Demmink first became a suspect in these kind of cases ?
That's a bit of a discussion.
Because we have the Anne Frankplantsoen case in 1994 I think ...
He was detained there ?
No not detained.
but several informants place him at the scene. There may have been a map which they found
And Henk Krol and Fred de Brouwer investigated this matter
and got me in contact with the informants
and the wrote articles about it for the Gaykrant and Panorama
and I thought it was published
but there was a discussion about it
with mr. Demmink and his lawyes mr. Knijff
and eventually they retracted the articles
Why ? I don't konw, all I know is what Henk Krol told me
that he visited in Demmink's private residence
and that they told him : mister Krol ...
Keep in mind ...
We are the ones making the laws in this place.
And that is a statement that haunts me to this day.
and, uhm, uhm, this was in 1994
And there never was a case
after that you had the Rolodex affaire
And that was a Dutch extension of the Dutroux investigation in Belgium ?
No, well an investigation was started I don't know if the Dutroux case had anything to do with that ...
I had police detectives from that investigation here at this table
they did CID (Criminal Intelligence Service) work
And these guys, the ones that where here ...
and two of his colleagues were very clear about it
They were also questioned in 2014
In witness testimonies for this organization  fighting for the truth
Instigating this investigation was mr. Poot
and the organization researching this matter is called 'The Rusty Nail'
and the did the witness testimonies and three of the detectives testified
And the one (detective) who spoke to me earlier said
'I was a CID investigator and we had ...'
'... a couple of different suspects including professor de Roon...'
'...who received a number of young boys at his home...'
'... and these boys came from the boys brothel owned by mr. Maasdam...'
and he had all sorts of clients
and direct contacts and the suspects in this case
who held high positions of power
where officers of the justice department
including the name ; Wabeke was mentioned there
but also ; mr. Demmink
And I came in contact with this case (names) before
because mr. Fred Teeven
at that time the CID officer on that case
who told that in a later case
uhum
behind closed doors
'... I've been a CID  officer ... '
'... in a case where we .. uh... uh ...'''
'... investigated child prostitution...'
so this was about the boy-brothels
'... but the case was destroyed from higher up the chain of command...'
So there was a leak and then we quit.
and the same was said by ...
Cause if the evidence of a case is already in the streets you can never build a proper case in court ?
Well what the detective told me was :
'... we plugged in all the wire taps and then there was a complete radio silence ...'
'... and when we came to the professor's home we could see dust on the desk of ....
'... that videotapes and computers where previously there but they moved everything just in time of our visit...'
'... and we were greeted like ; hey guys do you want some coffee ? ...'
So that was busting the case from higher up
And is this the investigation where there is an alledged recorded phone call from mr. Demmink to a pimp ordering underage children for sex ?
Well that's the HIK investigation in Rotterdam. That is a different investigation.
How did the case of the two Turkish boys came to light ?
The case of the two Turkish boys came to light because ...
because we, I mean 'I'
in the case of mr. Baybasin
we have gotten information from Turkey
shared with us by an investigative reporter from Turkey
that, uh
the mr. Demmink case
started in Turkey with the purpose of
blackmailing high government officials in the Netherlands to start a case against mr. Baybasin
And to fabricate it !
and the investigative reporter from Turkey dug deeper in to the matter
and then he
Talked to the chief of police in Istanbul
Who told him : '...Yes during the investigation into mr. Baybsin ...'
'...The Dutch police was here everyday and they had a lot of power in this investigation...'
'...and there was also a mr. Demmink...'
'... and my people did his security detail...'
And he had a hard time even speaking the words
but eventually he uttered ; phedophilia.
And thru that police chief the journalist also found the police officer who
also found the guy, a certain mr. Korkmas
who
on video, tells us
he had to secure en and protect mr. Demmink
And that on the weekends
and some evenings
mr. Demmink told him : I want a boy
and then he went in to the uh
outskirts of Istanbul to find a little boy and brought the boy to mr. Demmink
and uh, uh
he did it again with another boy, he brought him another boy
And the boys were 13, 14 years old at the time ?
12, 13 but they are grown men now
and they eventually pressed charges
and their Turkish lawyer
asked me to co-sign the charges from these boys
and I did
and that was the start of that case
a case were we have a police officer on videotape admitting to seeing the crimes
A head commissioner at the justice department
who admits
I know that the man (mr. Demmink) was here
my people protected him. We have the statements of the boys.
And the investigative reporter.
And what did the court say about the charges brought against mr. Demmink ?
Well ever since the beginning of this case mr. Demmink consisted...
That he didn't visit Turkey since '85 of '87
So he is riciting the Shaggy song 'It wasn't me' ?
I never been there !
He says he has never been there
while we have official Turkish police documents with all the travel dates in order
How hard is it for a guy like Demmink to have multiple passports ?
He did have more than one passport. He had a diplomatic passport ass well.
but the Turkish sources also reveal that
he traveled on aliases
So he was really trying to cover his tracks
that is what the Turkish authorities are saying
Eventually the court in Arnhem (the Netherlands)
said, based on all this information, and this was in january 2014
We think that on the basis of the information we have on mr. Demmink, an investigation should start in to his conduct
and that was your question
When was he suspect first ?
At that point he first became a suspect
Cause the Anne Frankplantsoen case never saw the light of day in '94
just as the Rolodex investigation
where the case was busted from higher up
before he was officially a suspect
I see.
Where there witnesses ? Videotapes ? In the case of the Turkish boys ?
See we don't dismiss the possibility that
the Turkish government
is in possession of videotapes portraying mr. Demmink having sex with underage children
which is used as blackmail
we don't dismiss that possibility, let's put it that way
but uh yeah when do you have proof of rape ?
That's a very hard thing
and most of the proof will have to come from witness testimony
And one of the boys came to the Netherlands to make a very detailed statement
He also did this testimony on video, just like the other boy
and we have all these materials on file
and we have also got the police officer
that brought the boys to mr. Demmink on video tape
and in to the investigation in to mr. Demmink
it has been confirmed that the police officer was working at that time for Istanbul police
as a security guard
So we were able to collect and present lots of evidence
But did mr. Demmink ever admit to being present in Turkey at the times of the crimes ?
No. He continuous to claim that he has not been there.
And the funny thing is, because I have red the whole case file
Yes.
And then you get this deja vu feeling
and that has been pretty traumatizing for me personally too
The courts conclusion after 2,5 , 3 years research was
'...There is no proof that mr. Demmink has ever been there... '
'... and that he did these things because ; ...'
based on the dutch investigation
there is no base of evidence that he has ever been there (Turkey)
But ...
At the same time you are sitting on a pile of evidence ... with different witnesses saying ;
it was him, he has been here !
Yes and the worst thing is
that with the order to prosecute
the court said and there was a district attorney in Turkey who said :
'... the suspect mr. Joris Demmink has been here ...'
on the 20th of July 1996
entered the country
And that is exactly the period that the victims claim that these crimes happened to them
And there was decided not to prosecute the case
because of the statue of limitations of the case
by prosecutor mr. Altai
and the court said that is the man we have to question.
And is there a statue of limitations on sex crimes in Turkey ?
Yes, very quickly
they don't waist any time right ?
So the court said to the commissionaire judge ;
'...You have to question this district attorney ...'
'... and you need to look in to the case files...' - Like I asked
'...And you need to question this police officer who brought the boys to mr. Demmink...'
'... and the boys themselves...'
Did the police officer feel remorse for what he did ? Was there a feeling of guilt ?
Yes in hindsight he was very sorry for his actions.
But it's the Turkish way. An order is an order. His superior ordered him to do so.
And he was very remorseful after hearing about what happened to the boys.
 
The funny thing is, is that the examining judge
in the criminal prosecution of mr. Joris Demmink
she tried very hard. Miss Wijnobel (?). She went to Turkey three times
And she begged
Can I question this officer, can I question all the witnesses ?
Can I see all the underlying documents ?
And every single time she asked she was denied permission
To question the witnesses in Turkey, see the documents there
Because the Turks in Ankara said :
'...there is a statue of limitations on this case ... '
'...Nebis nidem...'
that's Turkish for : you can't prosecute the same case twice
So we are not going to give you any information
Legally that's bullocks ! The examining judge explained that 3 times very clear !
The dutch court also quotes this decision in their latest ruling
That didn't work because of the Turks
And from here (the Netherlands) we can't proof it
And that was the end of the case !
And the said : '...there is not one shred of evidence and ms. van de Plas committed caracter assasination
on mr. Demmink ...'
And then you start to think : the Rolodex investigation,
Anne Frankplansoen and this...
Three times in a row you see that ...
and I can not say that he is guilty but ...
because that would make me libel
But statistically this can't be a coincidence ?
You see that the investigations
have always been blocked and frustrated from higher up the chain of command
What is the deal with this Rolodex investigation ?
I've red about it and dropped some lines about it in a rapsong of mine...
But most people don't know anything about this !
Like I metioned before, this is the perfect example of ...
A case which is destroyed from higher up
and blocked
And those where the detectives who
came in to my office but who also were questioned
in 2014 again
and there are 3 detectives that say that in that time ...
mr. Demmink was
together with two other officers of the justice department among other people in power
(mr. Demmink) was a suspect !
but when we wanted to start the surveillance
and actually plug in the wire taps
everything went silent and..
in 2014 we found out from these interrogations that information about the case was leaked immediately !
when they put mr. Demmink under surveillance, they notified
to a
friend
and suspect in the case mr. Wolthuis (?)
And he immediately called the head officer at the department of justice
and the attorney general here
'...What the hell are you guys doing , you can't do this !!..'
meanwhile
the whole operation went silent
and all the equipment was removed
So, mr. Fred Teeven later Secretary of State
and at that time officer of the CID at the department of justice
He went on the record stating
In this case I was CID officer of justice
but when we started with the tactical investigation...
to really follow and listen to the suspects ...
everything went silent and counter actions were taken
these are his words !
What are counter actions ?
Counter strikes is when everything goes silent
- And your superior calls you to say : What the hell are you doing ?
Yes in my opinion
While all along there were always good people
who honestly tried to investigate
real crimes ?
I know that one of the detectives. Really a very nice and stand up guy
who came to me first with this whole story...
He said : '...from this whole Rolodex case ...'
that was the boy brothel
owned and operated by mr. Maasdam
Who supplied boys for professor mr. van Roon
where all these elite people came to ...
and that was the contact hub.
but only mr. van Maasdam was sentenced
and he said
I he still gets pissed when he thinks about this
after serving a little time of the not so long sentence
he got an alternative sentence : working on a petting farm with children !
but all well and done
this is bizar !
Police detectives get very frustrated when the hear this.
When you start to search for these statements
from the detectives, and all the case work, and, and
and you see all the information in this 'cold case'
you can actually listen to a couple of recorded telephone conversations from these cases ...
on youtube
and in one of these recorder telephone conversations you hear ...
possibly mr. Demmink
and possibly one of the pimps
and they go :
'Is this kid available ?'
'No they are there and there with so and so...'
'then you know what time it is'
and you can clearly notice from the way they are speaking to each other
this is not the first conversation they ever had !
this sounds like an ongoing thing they have going on ...
Well I have seen and red this to ...
And there is some discussion about if it is mr. Demmink on the recordings
because the national news broke the story
And the reaction of the departent of justice was : it was another high ranked officer of the department of justice
Also very interesting !?
but anyway...
I don't know that
it does however paint a clear picture of what the mind state was at the time
how easily these kind of calls where made to a Rotterdam boy brothel (in the HIK investigation)
And I don't know for sure if that was mr. Demmink on the tapes
there is a lot of discussion in this matter
and I would like to stick to the facts that I know
You are absolutely right. If we are not sure we shouldn't insinuate anything
Also coming to the forefront in the investigation
is this Pinoccio Bar in Prague (Czech Republic)
Mr. Demmink used to frequent this place and his boyfriend worked there. Does this sound familiar ?
We mentioned Prague earlier...
It keeps coming up...
Fred de Brouwer did a lot of research in to this place ...
and, and, and also
Henk Krol did his research
and to my understanding this was all suppose to be
published in the Panorama and the Gaykrant
around 1994
Stories that were never published ?
Or retracted, I don't know all the details of the top of my head
It has been a couple of years ago you know
But I know that they intimidated Henk Krol pretty heavy
So as a lawyer
I would always remember the words from his statement :
'...Listen mr. Krol , WE WRITE THE LAWS !...'
and not parliament, that's the interesting part !
and that says a lot
about the so called democracy we're living in
When people high up say these kind of things
It scared me.
And I also saw this in 2007
When I first got involved in the Baybasin case
that here in the office we had
two reporters from the national news
and one of them reported
about the Anne Frankplantsoen case and the cases you mentioned
about the recorded telephone conversations
and the guy sat here shaking with his hand
saying : Do you guys know what you are getting in to ?
this mr. Demmink is untouchble
Excuse me ?
when someone says untouchable i'm getting in beast mode !
Well I have known.
It is very frustrating working these cases
What do you mean with ; Well I have known ? Did you get a lot of backlash ?
Well you see ...
In a sense that you have this vast amount
of evidence and witness testimony
And that they just swipe it under the carpet !
Witnesses not questioned !
And then the media gets alerted
that mvr. van der Plas together with mr. Poot
from Chiphol and the book 'De Demmink Doofpot'
they have committed character assassination of mr. Demmink
And that is really not my intention
I'm about the fact that if someone so high up the chain of command
is so receptacle for blackmail
by these kind of practices... The rule of law will fall
This has always been the problem
And again I found this out the hard way
with the Baybasin cae
Because I am seeing with my own eyes that they sentenced him on ...
a number of things which are impossible
and it still goes on
And then I say : 'Where is our rule of law?'
We will get to the Baybasin case in a minuit
I want to get back to mr. Henk Krol
The chairman of the senior citizen party (50+)
He is now
When I met him first he was a young men himself !
Yes but...
funny thing is that this guy is now
that he has a seat in the senate
it kind of looks like he was placed there
from a distance I mean it looks that way
I read in the paper that they fight a lot in politics
And of lately Henk Krol has been known to
react very late to famous people passing away
or congratulate people for their birthday while in fact they passed already
I wouldn't go as far as to calling him a 'Joe Biden' but...
He is not the sharpest knife in the cupboard.
And then I am being mild.
But there are a lot of people who say
that he plays a key role in the mr. Demmink case. He could even be the key.
Well he knows a lot...
he was the one in Demminks home.
and in fact the first person ever to investigate mr. Demmink
And approached me
to share his findings with me
I didn't know a thing about the Anne Frankplantsoen, I never even heard about it
Until I was confronted
with mr. Demmink in the Baybasin case
and went public with this information
because we found it alarming
and then the smear campaign began on me
And Henk Krol experienced this himself
and he also made a testimoy
in 2014
about mr. Demmink's friend
So he is not silent about the things he knows
And that is also...
And I don't know if I am saying this correct
But there has been a case where judge Wabeke
Uhhh...
Had to make a decision in a case and his friend Demmink was a suspect in this case
And judge Wabeke said : '...We hardly know each other ...' (him and Demmink)
Then Henk Krol stepped up and said :
'...These men definitely know each other !..'
And he shows a picture of Demmink, Wabeke, Swinkels and probably himself having dinner at Swinkels home.
That could be true , all I know is
When I brought the Baybasin case to the court in The Hageu
Where judge Wabeke resided ;
they couldn't take the case and we will be 'verschoond'
 
And then they send the case to Den Bosch and after that to the court in Arnhem
It is clear that the case is a 'hot potato' and nobody want to burn their fingers on it
But I don't know about the picture and the details.
Henk Krol's first investigation in to mr. Demmink for the Gaykrant (paper)
He investigated together with Fred de Brouwer for Panorama (newsmagzine)
Fred de Brouwer dove deep in to the investigation
And moved to Thailand as a precaution...
And there he was killed in a traffic accident
on a 5 lane highway...
On a moped !
But the traffic in Bangkok is notoriously dangerous...
But Frans we don't know ...
And driving a moped in Thailand is not without risk. True.
It is dangerous
But driving a moped in Amsterdam is also dangerous but Thailand is worse, yes...
I can't say anything about that. What I do know is that the Turkish police officer ...
Is on video confirming that he brought the boys to mr. Demmink
And that he hated himself for his actions ...
Is also no longer alive...
Mysterious car accident...
That's all I can say. But Fred de Brouwer I don't know.
Mysterious moped accident
could be
Mysterious car accident ...
All I can say is that also in the Dutroux case (in Belgium)...
And there are lots of documentaries about this...
Marc Dutroux was charged for keeping young girls in his basement
A horrific crime and very shocking
But what I saw in the documentary was ...
That a whole lot of people that could have testified about Dutroux clients....
Also found an untimely dead...
I've red one of the books detailing this subject...
The book speaks of over 30 witnesses in total...
That all could have been called to testify
And all of them died under suspicious circumstances
One way traffick accidents, suicides
Overdose of drugs, yeah....
But all of that remains open questions to me, just like Fred de Brouwer...
I know for a fact, because I talked to Fred de Brouwer
That he was very frustrated by the way the case was going...
He was doing an open and honest job investigating this matter...
And at a certain point he died.
So Henk Krol was a witness himself in the case against mr. Demmink ?
He was called to testify ...
by this organization called 'The rusty nail'
who re-investigated the whole Rolodex investigation
In 2014
Where 3 police inspectors all say that mr. Demmink was very much a suspect in this case
 
in that time...
and that alone should have been enough to at least make mr. Demmink resign from his function, but anyway
And yes Henk Krol was an official witness
And he spoke very openly about what he knew.
Let's back up a bit...
to the mid 90's
Joris Demmink was supposedly caught in the Anne Frankplantsoen in Eindhoven
together with the director of footbalclub PSV soliciting young boys...?
A notorious park
witch functioned as an open market for sex with children
for older men buying and young boys selling...
Yes, indeed yes
and this was investigated by Fred de Brouwer en Henk Krol
They intended to publish
or published
their findings in the Gaykrant and the Panorama
that raised a lot of eyebrows
And that was eventually retracted
because of the threat  of legal procedures against the paper and magazine
which resulted in a meeting between Krol and Demmink
at his house to discuss
where Demmink said : 'We make the laws'
and by the time I heard about this
It was Henk himself who reached out to me
after we went public with the lawsuit of the Turkish boys against mr. Demmink
So these are to completely different cases...
Completely different !
and then you started to connect the dots and seeing that there was way more going on...
Then you start to connect the dots
And like the did in my case by saying :
There is no proof mr. Demmink ever went to Turkey in that period
And you start thinking this can't be true
But then again all the cases before ; Anne Frank Plantsoen, Rolodex ...
Every single time the case is
obstructed from higher up
And only in the case of the Turkish boys
they formally started the investigation
because the court ordered them to do so because we demanded that
And because there was pressure from the United States of America
And eventually the investigators
couldn't check any of the materials , testimonies etc. in Turkey
they wouldn't get persmission
and when you have a witness
who you can't question with the defendant and his lawyer present ...
In this case : mr. Demmink and his lawyer
you can't use it as evidence
and how that happened between the Turks and the Dutch ...
authorities remains a guess ...
how did they cook it up ?
that the Dutch had no access to the evidence ?
'Did the Turkish government have a skeleton in the closet ?'
Yes. Jep.
I hate skeletons in my closet !
I think they have many skeletons in their closets....
I'm going to quote an artikel by omroep Brabant :
Henk Krol told that he was informed of a group of men ...
that would meet in front of an abandoned building near the Anne Frankplantsoen to do business
According to the informants
they would arrange contacts with very young children...
the children were presented...
and it was then arranged to go to a different location to have sex with them
According to Henk Krol there was a lot of information and tips about these men
and working through this intel the came closer to
mr. Joris Demmink
Yes that is how they told it to me too.
Fred de Brouwer told me this and Henk Krol as well
but I can't say this from my investigations but they both told me this in person...
 
And that is my point of view in these cases.
 
Henk Krol testified under oath, in court ...
that he received a sex video...
from Jan Wolter Wabeke.
Who was attorney general at the department of Justice
and leading the department of Justice
And Krol testified that Wabeke got the video from Demmink
because starring in the video was Demmink Czech's boyfriend and porn actor
having sex in this video with
younger boys
and
this means that this video 'got around' , it was a thing
That begs the question : What role is Jan Wolter Wabeke have in the Demmink case ?
and did they knew each other ?
Yes they knew each other. They frequented parties together ...
The relationship became more superficial with time ...
but that was the scene at the time ....
Both men were homosexual ...
and in that scene these kind of things happened...
and I think it was Wabeke himself
who himself was the informant telling about the sex video and some other things...
O ?!
but it's coming from the deep depths of my memories and lets leave it there for now
but uh ...
but he gave all this information to Henk Krol
which says a lot...
And Krol testified in court to this
And there is this new case
I only learned about it a couple of weeks ago...
Where this girl Lisa it think from The Hague
RTL Boulevard reported on this ...
another case that hit a dead end before it came to court
This girl was abused by her father
and other men ... that is what she is claiming
In a forest or park near the city of the Hague
she got pregnant and gave birth to a baby
this is all documented and proven
so not just some crazy story
that was well proven...
And also in this 2015 case mr. Demmink was mentioned as a suspect ...
And that case which was a vice case
And somehow that case
ended up in the court of mr. Wabeke and ... clap clap gone with the wind
Boy o boy, I know this case
this case goes very deep, dark, sinister
It's so absurd. - Yes really absurd ...
I , I didn't want to get involved. I can tell you that.
but I do know that
a very young talented reporter
from radio program "ARGOS" , ms. Sanne Terlingen
She investigated the case of the girl
and got a lot of evidence and proofs about the pregnancy
and that the girls father had all sorts of child pornography on his computer
and that 'ARGOS' investigation
became a full length radio program right ?
But what bothers me the most is ...
why only a radio broadcast why is this not on television ?
don't get me wrong, I'm glad my mom heard it but ...
this is something that the whole country should know and hear about !
Yes anyway ...
What 'ARGOS' most definitely proved was
that the official investigation was sabotaged from the start ...
and again that the higher ups
and people of power were mentioned to be involved
and the name mr. Demmink came up as well
and that is what I know about it
and I know 'ARGOS' is digging even deeper
but they do this very diligently
and they broadcast this in their radio show
very interesting material indeed
I've gotten back in to the material because you guys invited me to talk on this podcast...
I think it is very good to know
that there are still honest hardworking reporters
who are not afraid to sink their teeth into matters like this...
Yes I agree - It gives me a lot of strenght
these are young people saying we want to investigate this
and they are at the moment !
and this gives a little hope for a citizen
absolutely !
And these are times and matters
that the little piece of hope is very needed in these hopeless cases
And I can only imagine that for you personally this fight must wear you down at times ?
Even if one is very brave. It does wear you down, it does
but you become so disillusioned
by your own system
thinking : we are critical
they might think we are annoying
but with good argumentation and the truth we can come to sound conclusions...
But I found out that in the Demmink case and the Baybasin case this wasn't the situation
you are walking in to granite walls
and this is very frustrating
And a lot of people get worn out by this ...
and that is exactly the plan
You get smoked out in fact, or tired down
they make the fight unfair and it wears you down... ?
Yes and then their goal is accomplished.
How can it be that these people in power
after these heavy allegations and strange underlying relationships
were able to keep their jobs serving as role models within the department of justice ?
Demmink ? Wabeke ?
But Demmink was untill 2002 director of the foreign relations at the department of justice
and in 2002 he was nominated
while all these cases where already in play
Anne Frankplantsoen case, Rolodex case
Our case wasn't in play back then but those cases were
And then there was a big discussion about...
if they could appoint him secretary general of the department of Justice
and they really pushed the nomination, which was very strange to me...
And who decides these nominations ?
Who decides this ?
parliament and chambers but these nominations are fixed behind closed doors
I know that
there was a member of the works council
how had access to view certain files ...
and he saw that there was homeland security intelligence
in the Demmink dossier saying :
uh uh
he actually writes :
he says : this source who saw this report
'.. I've red that a german boy died on a sailboat ... '
'...because of high government officials present at this murder it was silenced ...'
well this is , - wow , this is
In the homeland security dossier on mr. Demmink
this information was known at the time of his nomination
So at this 'job interview' by lack of a better word,
there is information from homeland security about these matters
and that people are connecting him to these cases
 
even if it was light involvement
It should have been enough.
It should have been enough to say : let's find someone else for the job !
Yes. Or at least look around if we have more candidates for the job ?
And it was absolutely forced thru. And I am not sure it was minister Donner, the minister of Justice
but the decision was forced thru
and this is an informant who
who is very carefully trying to say this
because in fact this is secret information
Yes, and it goes a long way
and if you ask me how can this be ?
then this it self is a piece of the answer...
cause if this German boy
is still mysteriously missing ...
and hasn't been found
and he is in fact the subject of a so called 'snuff movie'
Okay ! What is a 'snuff movie' ?
A 'snuff movie' from what I hear about it from people in the business
who saw them and were subjected in them
Like Bart van Wel, who was a in one of these brothels as a child himself
and he said there were boys who were offered a lot of money
but sometimes they didn't return
they would should a child porn movie
where they would be abused
these 13, 14 year old boys
and in the end of the movie they died because the abuse would be so extensive
and with that in mind...
and reading this ...
then the case of the German boy on the sailboat
And that it was in fact the German boy : Schattwald
That he has been on the sailboat
and this is collaborated by an Englishman who was on that boat as well
that the boy was so brutally raped, orally...
that he choked eventually.
and this was all recorded on video and in the end of the video you saw ...
the camera being rushed away
and there was a lot of panic in the room
and that was because of the high government officials on the sailboat watching this boy get raped to death
And one of the people on this sailboat is allegedly mr. Demmink ?
Well this is the story
but I don't have hard evidence myself
Except for homeland security writing this down in a dossier on mr. Demmink !!!
So someone high up has this information and maybe more
and uses it to blackmail people in power...
and then you start to see why some people come in to powerful positions
even tough this information is known about their crimes...
because it is used for blackmail
And a sailboat full of powerful people
this is not mr. Demmink and the German boy the canoe to the water ?
This was a party on a boat
with sex and drugs ...
I think it was 40 feet long
...with a video recorder and different people in the room
This was a dirty party !
And the boat belonged to a mr. Ulrich...
A German man who produced child pornography in the Netherlands...
and a pedophile himself
and trafficked children himself
it was his boat ... where these kind of parties took place
Are the Netherlands and Amsterdam to be specific ...
that everything is easy over here
is that the reason so much child pornography is produced here and hosted on dutch servers ?
because we are nothing short of the 'Sodom and Gomorrah' of Europe, maybe even the world ?
Well look , the British reporter that wrote about this case
And talked to witnesses himself about what happened on the sailboat
and he writes about this very detailed...
He writes : in the early 90's Amsterdam and the Netherlands as a country ...
Was nothing short of a paradise for pedophiles
and people producing child pornography
And the British police
was very worried about this fact
and this reporter wrote articles about it in
in 1990 and 1997 ...
And he says it was because of the liberal environment in the Netherland
But when I read the statement of the informant in this case it is not only the liberal environment here in the Netherlands...
There were people in power involved making this environment extremely liberal
power to suppress information
power to stop investigations
and the more senior the position the more power it holds ...
Exactly and it is within your power to crush certain investigations
But Paul de Leeuw who was also in that time a prime time television star on public television
who was extremely intimate with a young boy
and I recently watched this footage (from 1980 ! the year I was born in)
And I know how television works. The sound check the song in the afternoon ; normal style
And I'll bet you that during the soundcheck
they sang the song, just a man and a boy singing a song, normal no problem
you divide the lines
you tune your voices
And come showtime there goes the host Paul de Leeuw
A young Paul de Leeuw
who devours this little boy
starts to kiss his neck, breathing heavily...
and at the end when it is time to take a bow and thank the audience
He bends the boy over
and makes a thrusting move up to three times !
I got mad at my mom for this. Since the footage is from 1980 , the year I was born
Because she shown you this footage ?
No ! No ! I was mad because they allowed this to happen when it happened. No big protest, no cancelling Paul de Leeuw on TV
How can it be that
This guy has a 39-year long career and counting. Raking big show business money for years ...
It says a lot about this country...
God left this country a long time ago if you look at it that way.
More than just this country.
you also saw this in England.
Jimmy Saville ? Those types of perverts ?
Is Paul de Leeuw the Dutch Jimmy Saville ?
I don't know ...
So I'm just asking myself because I know Adele doesn't want to answer this question and we are very understanding of this ...
Is Paul de Leeuw the Dutch Jimmy Saville ?
I don't know Paul ...?
So the high judge : Jan Wolter Wabeke
is in 2014 and in 2016
he is mentioned under oath by 3 police detectives
as a vice suspect. - yes as a suspect
In an investigation that got obstructed shortly after
And with mr. Demmink in three different investigations
And what all these investigations have in common ; the organized sexual abuse of minors
this is not a one time thing ...
this is not a dirty old man in a rain coat flashing his junk to children in the neighborhood
In legal terms you said it vey wel , yes ...
How can it be that a man like Wabeke
holds his position of power and is a free man ?
It's like I said
How can somebody with a history of involvement in these cases :
Anne Frankplantsoen in 1994, and the Rolodex investigation in 1996
like mr. Demmink can be appointed highest government official within the department of Justice ?
With the power of that position
to appoint judges, attorney generals and so forth ...
I wonder, I wonder how this can be ...
and all I can say is ...
We see the facts and the facts don't lie
Speaking of those facts...
Henk Krol testifies under oath
uhm
and
Henk Krol has been in contact with you for a long time about these cases
He is even the one that brought some of these matters to your attention ...
He has been very silent about mr. Demmink the last couple of years ...
Yes that's correct. I haven't spoken to him in a couple of years.
But back in 2007 he came to me
on his own presenting his findings to me
That is what I can say.
For me personally as a conspiracy theorist looking in from the outside ...
Let's put it like that ; CRAZY FRANS !
It kinda looks to me like Henk Krol kind of got a ...
consolation prize package to shut up
That goes for way more people
you know Fred Teeven who made it to the secretary of state position
Who said :
He's a bus driver nowadays right ?
Yes he is a bus driver
With all do respect to all the bus drivers
Yes but a big career turn from politics to the bus indeed
But he said that when he went from attorney general to politics
I'm going in to politics to bring light and truth to all the corruption
within the justice department
within all the circles involved
And he knows this stuff because he was CID officer at the department of justice
So he came to the fight with the best intentions and a pure heart ?
Yes there were reporters from TV program '1 Vandaag' quoting him saying :
He was going to drain the swamp of corruption.
But when he was put in to power we never heard anything about his battle against corruption ever again.
And now he is driving a bus
Is that the only thing he does ? Does he not have an detective agency ?
It doesn't matter ..
Bus drivers are the best detectives, the hear everything from the people ...
then you know everything
Exact.
oh, oh, oh
Back to Demmink and his
boyfriend from Prague , the porn actor
He started to talk in a big interview in the 'REVU' magazine
He couldn't live with the secrets anymore he says here
Was this man ever questioned as a witness ?
I don't remember clearly...
What I do remember is that in the Demmink file
in that investigation
that there was something that no one could or would talk about
But if he was ever questioned as a witness...?
I will have to owe you the answer to that one.
His name did keep on coming up
I don't know this article. Is this a recent article ? Did I miss this ?
It is from not to long ago I think. We will send it to you ...
Because of all the frustrations surrounding this case I stopped
following everything super closely...
but it is very interesting and I would like to read that article very much
I'll send it
What are the implications ?
What would happen if mr. Demmink would get caught ?
or investigated ?
or sentenced ? What happens then to our justice system ?
Well the funny thing is...
that mr. Borghouts, the former secretary general of the department of Justice
before mr. Demmink held that position, so he knows how the nomination went down
And he ones said in an interview with JDTV (youtube)
When this case sees the light of day...
the whole house of cards will come down
and with the whole house of cards he means ...
cabinet, ministers, everything
And he said to a reporter for the AD paper recently
actually they kind of made a bet
will this case ever come out ?
and he said I bet you the case will never come out
While the AD reporter
covering this case for years and writing about it : mr. Voskuil
He is betting his money on the truth to come out
I personally think that at the moment
a lot is being done worldwide combating human trafficking
that there is a crackdown harder than ever before
and uhm ...
that in the united states
some key people are hinting at a list of highly placed Dutch pedophiles in position of power
That list exist.
In the Netherlands ...
But see I am interested in this list because of another reason
because I remember in 2007 when we started with ...
the Demmink case and the information from Turkey
This list is it compiled by the Americans ? Is this intelligence stuff ?
Yes I think it's US intel.
but at that time many different reporters gave me lists
of elite Dutch people
who were involved in these pedophile circles...
and the interesting thing of course
when US intelligence has these kind of lists and they are circulating
What a power such a list gives !
The people on the list are Dutch government officials
and whoever has this list would own their ass !
And this is what I am fighting for with heart and soul
because this implies that our justice department is not independent
corrupt !
You are susceptible to being blackmailed. That's the major issue.
And it's like the same thing, they call it a.... and this was a new term to me
A honeypot operation ....
What Hugh Hefner did at the playboy mansion.
and the even more f-ed up version with Jeffrey Epstein and his island
Putting government officials and elites
in compromising positions...
Making 4K, HD quality movies and pictures
and let these people do their thing
and when you need them to act or vote a certain way
And you want the decision to be a certain way
you call the person and say : do this and this or we expose the video and your wife and kids are not gonna want to see this
Not only your wife and kids....
the whole country that you run is going to see
and that is exactly what the Turkish government told us in the Baybasin case
That there was compromising video material
of mr. Demmink
and that they have this material
And that they said that because of that case
uhm uh
You will arrest Baybasin anyway you can and extradite him to us or sentence him
Or else we will make the Demmink information public
And that is the way to mingle and influence in the rule of law in another country
which means that foreign powers can
have power in our country
and that is very dangerous.
I've recently posted this on my twitter account (@langefrans)
There was this letter from the united states
and the letters exists in different forms
with different receivers and senders but....
I tried to make a Dutch translation
The Americans write a German Euro parliament member : Christian Ehler
And these are 3 members of congress
who basically tell this mr. Ehler from the European parliament
If we are working human trafficking together
and we are trying to put a stop to child sex trafficking
Is it wise to have someone like mr. Demmink at such a key position in the Dutch department of justice ?
that is what the letter boils down to...
and they talk about the pedo foundation MARTIJN in the Netherlands....
Who in a slightly different form is still fully operational in the Netherlands ...
Yes I heard that too.
Well the letter is written by Chris Smith and another two members of congress.
The same letter went to Erdogan.
And uhm, Chris Smith has from the Helsinki committee in Washington
That's a worldwide committee
investigating human rights violations
and also is committed to combating human trafficking
And Chris Smith invited us
and one of Demmink's victims Bart van Wel
a researcher in the case
and myself
We were invited by a human rights group
To tell mr. Smith our story and present our findings
and we did so in october 2012
But even before that time
he already spoke out based on the reports coming out about mr. Demmink
citing : how can it be that the Netherlands
don't investigate this mr. Demmink ?
Because it might not add up to what people think of us
I mean how the see us internationally ?
Like come on guys
you are the sober old dutch, fix this shit
but unfortunately that seems to be a fairy tale !
I even have a resolution here at the office
filed by Chris Smith to the ... uh ...
to uh uh to congress
And in this resolution he asks :
If it is a good idea that the international courts in the Hague should be removed from the Netherlands
because the Netherlands fall far below the norm
having a senior official within the department of justice
with so much evidence piling up against him from Turkey ...
to not prosecute this man.
And I think it is partly because of this US pressure at the time
That the court said :
Let's prosecute to keep everyone happy
and then effectively we close the borders with Turkey
or Turkey closes it's borders to us
and then we can say : We looked in to it and investigated but...
but we didn't find any evidence
that mr. Demmink traveled to Turkey around that time
That's how I view this
But it is very interesting that this Helsinki committee
was open enough to question us and hear us out
after the got the information and started to send out these letters
cause the letter is dated july 31 2012
the letter was already written before we went to Washington
I know this letter well.
They were really committed to this case
and I know that mr. Smith went to Turkey
in an attempt to get the Turkish government to give information
that also failed but with mr. Erdogan there you can imagine these types of things
But Smith really went all in on this
but you know what the worst thing is ?
because when I see this I get frustrated again
There is a sister organization of this Helsinki committee
right here in the Hague, the Netherlands
And they made
after this letter circulated worlwide
admitted mr. Demmink to the board of that sister organisation from the Helsinki committee here in the Hague
even before the finish of his case
and when I see this I think
 
This is brutal !
I've written them a letter asking ; how could you do this ? they never answered
they never responded.
these dirty m*f*ckrs
At this point you are not even trying to hide anymore ...
That's what I mean
But this Helsinki committee was funded for
research in to prisons in other countries
So they got a lot of money from the department of justice
again the department that was ran by mr. Demmink
How convenient ?!
That really shocked me.
And this was even before the court ordered the first investigation
So his reach of power is real ...
Enormous
A normal person has no idea of this kind of power
In that sense I don't have any faith left in the department of Justice
that is.. that is...
That's messed up especially for someone in your line of work ?
It would be a nice thing to have faith in justice ?
And there are a lot of judges you can still trust but ...
But there are also judges
who could be compromised in some way
And that is desilusional
For someone who is suspected of sex with minors on so many times....
It is very strange that Joris Demmink keeps on getting away and away and away....
Not only that !
But is appointed to the highest positions within the department of justice !
The boss of all people who do anything at all in the justice system
He pulls the strings
If mr. Demmink is innocent ...
Why does he never speak out against these allegations in public ?
If someone would say this about me
I would move heaven and earth to make people see the truth ...
more so if these accusations were false !
He eventually had to defended himself in court and said :
I don't know anything and I've never been there
And before he must have tought...
here is yet another wrinkle
that we can iron out
Yes that's what I'm thinking
Minister Ivo Opstelten
paid for all mr. Demmink legal costs in this cases
And then we're talking 100K plus of legal fees paid by the department of justice ...
How can you explain these numbers ?
I don't know the numbers, but I know it was in the news and parliament asked questions about it...
And the Ivo Opstelten said :
well the green light to pay for the legal fees in the criminal case ...
we retracted that ...
But the probably knew they were going to win the case anyway...
And in case of a win
you'll get your money back anyway
So eventually the department of justice paid for all of mr. Demmink's legal fees
But if a person working for the department of justice
Is being charged personally ...
Is it in such cases standard operation
for the department of justice to pay the legal fees ?
Yes especially if it is a criminal case
And the Rolodex investigation was a civil case
The department of justice says
The charges against mr. Demmink are against mr. Demmink as a government official
the hell with that : he molested children as a government official
excuse me ; he allegedly molested children
yes and the state is paying for it
I've had different drivers throughout the years. None of them ever complained.
So it's a weird thing to me ...
that you would have 2 different drivers complaining  ....
about terrible abuse and child rape in the back of the government vehicle that they are in charge of driving.
Yes there are to many witnesses
and testimonies
And then Ivo Opstelten famously said :
there is nothing, there was nothing and there will never be anything
So he knew from the beginning how this would end
In that perspective
It's a dirty cover up like 9-11
in the sense that ...
There is so much evidence
that the official explanation of events is false
That if only 5% of the claims would hold up in court ...
It would still be more then enough
To make a fair judgement
Let me tell you that I really worked relentlessly to break this case an information
And in stead of a thank you this is good work
I was turned in to the woman committing character murder of mr. Demmink
And if I say he is guilty than that would be smear.
So I won't say that. But the only thing I can say is ...
The investigation, which I followed like a hawk,
that investigation is full of relevant information
witnesses, testimonies, names, dates, everything
and this whole investigation got wiped from the table
And you see once again the total block by the department of justice
We talked about Fred Teeven earlier...
Can you explain one more time to our audience what role Fred Teeven played in the Demmink case ?
First off, I've known Fred Teeven a long time
As a taxes justice after that as attorney general
Then he became secretary of state
and now as you were saying : he is a bus driver
But in this case, the Rolodex investigation in 1998
Fred Teeven wast the CID officer of justice
which means he was
the officer of justice in charge of all the ...
secret information that the police brought to the department of justice
And CID is CRIMINAL INTELLIGENCE SERVICE right ?
Yes correct. So he knew that there were ...
suspects in this case who were high ranked officers within the department of justice
and suspects who were high up in the political piramide power structure
And he knows how it went down
and at a certain point in a secret investigaton
behind closed doors and secret
but I got my hands on these files
And he said : '...I was CID officer of justice ...'
'... and we investigated...'
'...child abuse by high officers of the justice department and in politics...'
'... and at one point the investigation...'
'...was cancelled...'
'...counter measures were taken...'
'... and we couldn't continue to investigate further...'
That is what he said and on the basis of those testimonies...
we investigated the matter deeper
until we met with the three CID detectives who were actually worked this case at the time
Who actually worked the case themselves ?
Who saw all these thing with their own eyes...
And are still heartbroken and emotional about not being able to continue the investigation
What's up with the connection between mr. Demmink and Queen Beatrix ?
I have no idea.
All I know is that ..
I really don't know , I don't have any information...
well didn't they share the same lawyer ?
But different people can use the same solicitors right ?
That could be.
The lawyer was Frits Solomonson right, one of Demmink's lawyers ?
Frits Solomonson used to be the lawyer of the royal family.
And we all know the stories about Frits Solomonson...
Well, not everybody ...
Well back in the day ...
his next door neighbors of his amsterdam canalstreet home ...
Once complained to the police
about the large number of young boys entering their neighbors house
and he had a basement under his house
full of rooms where minors were abused and raped
well yeah...
My next door neighbor complained once or twice about the music being to loud or a car in their driveway but...
but never did the complain about a basement full torture chambers !
but the lawyers Anker & Anker in Leeuwarden did that case
They might be able to tell you more about that. But it is a very old case.
but a...
(Solomonson) was the lawyer who was the lawyer of queen Beatrix
and good friends with her and her husband as well...
And the house in question is a couple of blocks away right ?
Yes on the keizersgracht.
....
few blocks away.
I think Adam Curry once touched on the subject
because he also lived on the keizersgracht himself
This could be so.
But the neighbors complained and started a procedure against him (Solomonson).
Isn't it strange...
that there hasn't been one big blowout documentary about this man ?
Yes that is weird and that should have happened.
And it's very strange that we are still having this conversation years after these unpunished crimes ?
yes that's is very weird.
You see I don't make documentaries. I did my job as a lawyer !
I know I'm not really a podcaster, but yet here we are ...
It's like I discussed with Koen Voskuil and I don't know if I can say this but ..
It's really indigestible
that all the evidence that you have brought to light
for instance what Koen Voskuil wrote about in the AD (dutch paper)
that in the 80's and the early 90's
That mr. Demmink was seen by multiple witnesses in the presence of...
a notorious child pimp from the Hague : mr. Willard
Mr. Willard was also connected to Marc Dutroux. I know this to be true.
And mr. Demmink even started a lawsuit against the publications of the paper (AD) , which he lost
because the publication was based on multiple witnesses...
Demmink's lawyers said : all the witnesses are criminals themselves.
But I recently saw Yvonne Keuls in a video interview...
And Yvonne Keuls is a pretty well known writer. She once wrote a book ...
Uhm, uh... "Annie Berber, the sorrows of a sweetheart criminal"
She wrote back in those days about...
How she saw little boys from the shelter where she worked
were being picked up by government cars
to take them to the courthouse to be abused by judges ...
And they hated and destroyed her for saying and writing this. And I now know how that feels
But she is saying on camera :
'... What I can say for sure is ...'
'... is that I knew Willard. The pimp...'
'... he came to the shelter to collect the boys...'
And at one point she got a tip to come to a place..
And there she saw Willard the pimp together with mr. Demmink. She saw them together and she saw them leaving together.
So there aren't only underworld witnesses
but also this writer saw these two men together.
And this has al been investigated by...
Koen Voskuil with the AD paper
and he wrote about this. Got sued over it.
Which he in fact won.
And for him this whole matter is indigestible. No one ever did anything with the information
indigestible
Another indigestible thing perhaps ...
We see judge Jan Wolter Wabeke...
and his husband : Jan Swinkels
And Jan Swinkels has been, for all of you who don't know
a great advocate for same sex marriage
he was also very committed to this
He really made his name this way
And we see him partying a lot with our MP Mark Rutte
There are a lot of pictures of them together...
on boats on kingsday
and these are different years , different locations
different pictures !
Uhm....
Does Mark Rutte not know that these guys were / are themselves suspects ?
Or does he know ?
I don't know Frans ...
What can I say ?
What you said are the facts. People can make up their own minds.
I'm just gonna come out and say it because no one else will...
I think it's weird that our MP Mark Rutte
Is apparently very close to
You could even say he is a dear friend of mr. Wabeke and mr. Swinkels...
Who are both mentioned in relation to child abuse cases.
I'm glad I said that and no it's out of my system at least.
I mentioned before : It looks like there is structural child abuse taking place here
Pedophile networks with high ranking suspects such as ...
Joris Demmink, Jan Wolter Wabeke, Theo Reub, Vincent Leenders...
All friends of Demmink. Kind of like a little club
at least they are connected with each other
What is up with this country ?
Well bare in mind this was the 90's , the laws changed quite a bit since then
Nowadays if you accidentally post a picture of your own child running naked you can get sentenced for having child pornography
But after those times ...
There was a lot of new legislation
And I don't know the current legislative situation but we've had the Robert M. case recently....
and everyone knows about this.
But the question remains : Who are the clients ?
And that is what should be investigated just like in the Dutroux case
Who are the customers ?
Cause' in the Dutroux case , Marc Dutroux was a man of simple means.
But he had five houses !
that's impressive..
and there he had basements with chambers
filled with children. Dead and alive ?
And you could there was kind of like a corporate structure involved ....
Yes. And this was never investigated.
And Dutroux always held his mouth shut.
But there were continuous rumors that Dutroux's clients
were senior governent officials in the Netherlands and Belgium ?
And you see the parallels in these cases. Yes indeed.
Another interesting thing. Very interesting indeed....
Because we talked about Henk Krol in his function of editor in chief of the Gaykrant
that's not Henk's job anymore but the Gaykrant still exists
and has a new editor in chief named : Hans Prummel
And he got caught with something... I didn't even know it this was a thing
Hurt core
- Yes. Porn.
And that means sex with children who get really badly abused
maybe this is one level below 'snuff'
But isn't it strange that once again
A person like this
ends up in charge as chief editor ?
This happened last month for crying out loud !
Well I don't know if the charges are correct
there is not much information public yet
I believe just one newspaper
So I don't know.
But I'm not surprised by this knowing about all atrocities that happened in the 90's ...
Because I didn't even mention the Zandvoort case yet ...
this was also back in the 90's in Zandvoort
Where they found the most gruesome child pornography
With young children in diapers
being raped many times over again
 
And I mentioned the 'snuff' movies ...
with children abused to the point of death
So I've know for a long time that this phenomenon is real.
And that it's still very much in existence is also a fact in my opinion.
Because how do you heal deviation ?
Maybe it's more of a religion to these people than a deviation...
Or at least that how they think, I'm guessing..
Well you are pretty sick is you abuse children....
It's the worst crime you can commit.
And these children were also drugged out of their minds...
And when you see these images...
And the NRC paper did a decent job describing them
pretty independently and middle of the road, decent newspaper...
And they describe to most horrific pictures that were shown.
and the funny thing is that we never heard anything about that case again
Who were the clients ? Who frequented these places ?
And in this case of Robert M. ...
the material was so horrific that they couldn't even show all the pictures to the parents and lawyers involved right ?
No because than the parents would be in possession of child porn !
Nowadays you aren't allowed as a private citizen to see these materials
because it is forbidden by law....
So that begs the question ; who is watching this stuff except the police ?
It's horrific material.
It's messed up.
It's really incredible stuff we've been talking about the last hours
My mind is racing and I know the people watching this feel the same way...
How can this happen in the Netherlands ? It can !
I want to thank you very much for this conversation.
Thank you very much for all the questions Frans.
My pleasure Adele, thank you.
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PART  2 ABOUT THE BAYBSIN CASE COMING SOON
