>> BOWEN: With his bestselling
novelThe Da Vinci Code,
Dan Brown suddenly tested
our beliefs
in religion, history, and art.
But they were issues,
he will tell you,
he was just working out
for himself.
I recently sat down with Brown,
whose latest novel isOrigin,
about the making
of his adventure novels,
why he questions art,
and why he's fond
of hanging upside down.
Dan Brown, thank you so much
for joining us.
>> Thanks for having me.
>> BOWEN: Well, ordinarily,
I don't think you or I
do interviews in tuxedos,
but we're here
as you're about to tape,
you're about to do the keynote,
speak at the Literary Lights
dinner,
which benefits the Associates
of the Boston Public Library,
which takes care
of the special collections,
conservation and whatnot,
and I'm emceeing,
so this will be
our fancy-pants interview.
>> Exactly. I feel very...
very formal.
>> BOWEN: Yes.
So let me ask you, you not only
are a best-selling author,
but the books you've sold
have gotten people to...
to think differently,
to look differently,
perhaps even believe
differently.
I'm sure that wasn't a lofty
goal of yours
when you started writing books.
>> No.
>> BOWEN: But, but how do you
weigh that...
that reception now?
>> You know, it's funny, I mean,
I think for most authors,
you write to tell a story,
you write to share your ideas.
And you hope somebody listens.
And certainly, for a long time,
my books had no, no audience
whatsoever.
And, of course,
afterThe Da Vinci Code,
they had a big audience.
And it's an interesting thing
that happens
when you suddenly realize
your next book
is going to be read
by, by millions,
tens of millions of people.
And, uh, for me, I had to just
sort of step back and say,
"Wait, I've done this before.
"I'm just writing a book
to explore ideas
"that are interesting to me.
And just, uh, just write
the book you'd want to read."
>> BOWEN: But your ideas are...
have galvanized people
in such a way, as I mentioned,
you know,
people, people think
differently.
They go to the Louvre, they look
differently at theMona Lisa.
How, how do you...
Did you feel a responsibility
in that kind of reception?
>> Absolutely.
I mean, first of all, you want,
you...
When you're writing fiction,
at least my goal is to get
to people...
get people to engage
in dialogue.
To think about why they believe
what they believe,
to make, make people
defend your beliefs.
And, and ideally, open your mind
to ideas that are,
that are maybe different
than the ones you had.
So that's always...
Always,
the most gratifying thing for me
is to, to hear that somebody
thinks differently.
>> BOWEN: And you grew up,
it sounds like,
with, with being charged
to think differently
from your parents.
>> Yeah, well, my, uh, my mom
was a church organist
and a choir director--
I grew up
in a very religious household.
My dad was a math teacher
at Phillips Exeter,
right up the road,
and also a best-selling
textbook author
with Houghton Mifflin,
right here in Boston.
And so I had sort of the, uh,
the right brain-left brain,
I had the, the science
and religion.
And I really, those two things
when I was growing up
were, were very, um...
They lived in harmony.
And then there's this
amazing moment in my life
when I came
to the Boston Museum of Science,
and I believed in Adam and Eve
and, you know,
the story I'd been told
in Sunday school,
and I heard about evolution.
And I went
and I asked my priest,
"Hey, which story is true?"
And this particular priest said,
"Nice boys don't ask
that question."
So I spent the rest of my life
asking that question,
and that's, of course,
where all these books come from.
>> BOWEN: And did you feel
that you were propelled
to write the books as a way
to answer those questions?
>> Yes, for me personally,
and I always think
that, that the best writing,
when I... when I read
other people's work,
and it's clear that they're just
working out something
for their own benefit,
for their own illumination,
those are the books
that always resonate,
and that's, that's what I do
in these books.
I pick topics that...
that either I don't, I don't
have a clear thought about,
or things that interest me.
>> BOWEN: So it is--
and it's still for you,
it's not being mindful of what
an audience might want,
or have an expectation of
at this point?
>> No, absolutely not.
In the book I just, just
published,Origin,you know,
where did we come from,
where are we going?
These are just ideas
that, that I want to...
If I'm going to spend
two or three or four years
researching, writing a book,
I want to be fascinated
by the topic.
Um, and I think it's pretty hard
to write for an audience,
because that audience
is always shifting,
and, and in this day and age,
shrinking,
because there's so much, uh,
so much competition
from, from technology.
>> BOWEN: How much culture
did you grow up with?
>> Well, I grew up on the campus
of Phillips Exeter.
I was in a dorm.
I grew up going to concerts
and going to art,
art galleries,
and, um, we didn't have a TV.
My parents didn't believe in TV.
So I just thought it was normal.
And it's kind of interesting,
because I grew up
very immersed in culture,
and also in a multicultural,
multi-religious world, where...
Where we would have services
at Phillips Church on campus
that would be
of all sorts of denomination--
not just Christian,
I mean, right across the board.
And so I thought
that was very normal,
and then I sort of went off
to college and thought, "Wow.
The world's not quite
the way it was where I grew up."
So I grew up
pretty, pretty open-minded
and pretty, pretty immersed
in a lot of different cultures.
>> BOWEN: And as we see
throughout the span
of your books,
always looking at art, too,
especially the fine arts.
>> Yes.
I have no skill whatsoever.
I'm a terrible painter-- I took
a lot of painting classes.
I finally thought,
"Well, maybe, maybe modern art."
And I was terrible at that, too,
but I absolutely loved
the, the premise of art.
The idea of creating
something out of nothing.
And of course, that's what...
that's what authors do,
that's what musicians do,
that's what creative people do.
And I always, always admire them
and I love the creative process.
>> BOWEN: And the span of art,
from Renaissance, of course,
straight through modern art,
abstract...
>> Yeah.
>> BOWEN: Is that something
you've, you...
as you're researching for
Robert Langdon, you consume?
Or has it always,
even before you got there,
you've been kind of fascinated
by it?
>> You know, I, I've always been
fascinated by art.
This idea of modern art
has always challenged me.
I look at it and I think, like,
"Why is that art?"
And that was always a question
that, that interested me.
Like, how does...
How does the Guggenheim
figure out what to put?
Or how does MOMA in New York
figure out,
"Well, we're not going to take
this totally black canvas.
"We're going to take a black
canvas that has one bot...
"drop of blue.
"And we're going... there's a
wheelbarrow filled with Jell-O.
That's brilliant."
You know, how do...
you know, how do you decide?
I think that there is something
universal about art
that resonates.
About certain pieces of art
that resonate.
Not everyone loves
theMona Lisa.
Not everyone loves,
uh, Gustav Klimt.
But there is some...
There is some intrinsic value
in great pieces of art
that a lot of people
can appreciate across...
across a lot of different tastes
and genres, I believe.
>> BOWEN: Going back
to your own art,
I think a lot of people who have
simply read your books
and haven't studied you
will be surprised to learn
about your musical background.
>> Yeah!
>> BOWEN: That you're a pianist,
singer, songwriter.
Where does...
what role does music play
in your writing today?
>> You know, I, I think
my musical training,
which was my entire childhood,
and, and specifically
composition--
I wanted to be a, a composer.
I was a composer, I was just
a starving composer.
(laughing): So I'm probably
not a very good one.
But the, the process of learning
to compose music
really helped me understand
how to craft stories.
Music is about tension
and release.
It's about structure.
It's about, uh, tempo
and pacing and themes
and surprising people,
giving the listener
what he or she wants
in a way they don't see coming.
All of that is so closely tied
to how to write stories.
>> BOWEN: Do you listen to music
when you write?
>> Mmm, not when I write,
no, never.
I'm, I'm more of a dead silence,
shades pulled,
lots of coffee kind of person.
>> BOWEN:
And hanging upside down.
>> Uh, yes, I, I have been known
to hang upside down.
It's funny, I started,
I started doing that
because my eyes got tired,
and I had an optometrist say,
"You know what?
Get gravity boots.
It aerates the optic nerve,
it's going to really help you."
So I got them,
and I got them at a time that I
was writingAngels and Demons,
which, I, I don't know
if you've read the book,
but has ambigrams
of these book, these...
A certain kind of text
that can be read upside down
and right side up,
and it was about dark and light,
and, uh,
and it just became
part of my routine.
I hung upside down today.
>> BOWEN:
What does it do to you?
>> Well, it's... (laughs)
I don't know.
Maybe it makes you very strange.
It, physiologically, it... it
creates separation in your spine
such that, you know,
if you sit all day,
it just, it's easier to do.
But there is something
really unusual
about relaxing your whole body
and having the entire world
be upside down,
and every single cell is,
and, and organ
is being stretched
in the opposite direction,
you're just... it's a,
it's a strange sensation.
And for me, it helps me work
through ideas sometimes.
>> BOWEN: Robert Langdon,
does he...
How does he live with you?
Does he live with you?
>> Um, yes.
Because I... in order
to write a character,
and any, any author
will tell you this,
that you have to really see
the world
through,
through that character's eyes.
Um, Robert Langdon has
an academic curiosity
that, that I share, although his
borders on a, on a mania,
and so I sort of have to,
have to share that.
You develop that passion
and that...
that introspective nature
of your character.
Think, think of writers,
they spend almost more time
in the fictional world
than the real world.
Um, and you hear the
conversations in your head
all day,
and you, you wake up,
and you're with your characters,
and... yeah.
>> BOWEN: Do you have to work
at, at separating him,
to leave him aside
for a little while?
>> You know, I, I've developed
a... the answer's yes.
Um, but I've, I've developed
a way to do that.
I, I, you know, I go out
with friends,
and, and Robert Langdon
is, is, uh...
in, in a book back,
back on my desk somewhere.
I leave, I leave my office,
I work at home,
and I leave my office,
and I walk past a piano,
and I sit down, I play piano
for about 15 minutes,
which I find
just clears the head.
And then I go on with,
with the real world.
>> BOWEN: What about the film
adaptations of your work?
Does that change
how you see your characters?
>> I love Tom Hanks,
and, and would be happy
to think of Langdon
as Tom Hanks,
but, um, I wrote
three Langdon books
before there was a movie made.
Um, and, and I, I wasn't...
I hadn't really had any success.
I wasn't sort of writing,
thinking,
"This is going to be
a major motion picture."
I was writing saying,
"Well, I, I hope I sell
more than ten copies
to my, to my mother,"
which is who usually
bought the books.
Um, so, no, I see Langdon
the way I see him in my head.
Still, yeah.
>> BOWEN: The controversy
that's come from your books.
You've talked about that being
a positive thing,
to get...
well, I'll let you answer.
Do you continue to see it
as a positive thing,
or is it ever a liability
for you?
>> It's almost always positive.
I mean, there's, there's...
Controversy, essentially,
in my...
I, I translate that as dialogue.
I translate that
as somebody saying,
"Oh, you've touched a nerve,"
and they're having defend...
to defend the way they think.
Um, which is a good thing,
because it makes us...
You're never writing to convince
somebody of something else.
That's, that's maybe
a nonfiction book.
This is saying,
"Hey, here's..."
In the case
ofThe Da Vinci Code,
I, I wrote a book that,
where characters asked,
"What would it mean
for Christianity
"if Jesus were not literally
the Son of God,
if he were a mortal prophet?"
Um, and I joke, you know,
not everyone thought
that was a great question
to ask.
And it, it upset
a lot of people.
What we forget...
What we forget is
that it wouldn't have upset
so many people
if the book hadn't been
so popular.
People weren't upset
with the book,
they were upset that
so many people were saying,
"Actually, this story seems
to make a lot of sense."
And I just told a story
about Mary Magdalene,
a story that, from my own
research, made more sense to me
than the story I learned
in Sunday school.
And, and people could choose
to believe it,
or do their own research,
or tell me it was ridiculous,
or, or whatever they chose.
And, uh, I...
this will sound naïve--
I had no idea the book
would be so controversial.
>> BOWEN: But it,
it doesn't sound
like it affected you very much.
>> Um, it did for
a short period of time.
And then, then, uh,
then I realized
that there was so much good,
I had so many conversations
with people who were moved
in a positive way.
I got so much mail from nuns,
Catholic nuns,
who said,
"Thank you for pointing out
"that the sacred feminine
has been lost in Christianity.
"That we as nuns, you know,
literally marry Jesus,
"give up our lives,
and we're still not fit
to give communion."
For example.
"Thank you for pointing
that out."
And that was pretty moving
to me.
I, um... my mother was a,
was a very strong, liberated,
powerful woman
as I was growing up,
and, and that, that particularly
made her happy, so...
You know, a son always wants
to make his mom happy.
>> BOWEN: Once you, you have
that volume of mail,
once you realize that people
the world over,
you've shifted something
in their thinking,
I mean, how does it feel
to have done that
across the world?
>> I take what I do
very, very seriously.
At the same time, um, you have
to be detached from it.
You can't be... you can't be
on the Boston Red Sox
and think
about how you swing the bat.
Like, it just has to happen.
And it's... whether
you're a singer, or an actor,
or a writer, a musician,
the second you're self-aware,
you are crippled--
you can't do what you do.
And so I literally sit down
to write a book
about themes that move me,
about places that move me,
about art that moves me.
>> BOWEN: And, finally,
I've read that there is a point
that you just decided
that you were going to write.
And I guess
you probably did this
with the songwriting
and singing in Los Angeles, too.
That took a lot of conviction,
to, to give up your job
and decide you're going
to do this.
Where'd that conviction
come from?
>> Yeah, first,
I didn't give up my job.
(both laugh)
Let's be honest.
Um, I... Well, when I was out
in Los Angeles, I was, um,
I was a teacher at Beverly Hills
Prep School, taught English.
And, uh, and, you know,
to pay the rent, and I also
signed a production deal,
and, and made a record with
some really famous musicians,
and the record sold about as
many copies as my first novel,
which was not too many.
My sense is, if you're going
to succeed in the arts,
there has to be that conviction.
You have to really believe
that,
"This is what I want to do.
"This is what I, uh,
am cut out to do.
"And I don't care
how many people tell me
"that either I have no talent,
or that I need to get a real job
or what..."
You know, at some point,
you do it
because you have to do it.
And I think you don't sort of
stumble into writing a novel.
I think you really have to have
some commitment and some belief
to, to finish it.
It's not too hard to start one;
it's pretty hard to finish one.
>> BOWEN: Well, Dan Brown,
thank you so much
for speaking with us.
>> Pleasure's mine.
# #
