>>> TODAY SENATOR BERNIE SANDERS
>>> TODAY SENATOR BERNIE SANDERS AND NEW YORK CONGRESSWOMAN
AND NEW YORK CONGRESSWOMAN ALEXANDRIA OCASIO-CORTEZ ARE
ALEXANDRIA OCASIO-CORTEZ ARE INTRODUCING A NEW BILL TO HELP
INTRODUCING A NEW BILL TO HELP AMERICANS DEAL WITH INCREASING
AMERICANS DEAL WITH INCREASING AMOUNTS OF DEBT.
AMOUNTS OF DEBT. ACCORDING TO THE FEDERAL
ACCORDING TO THE FEDERAL RESERVE, AS OF MARCH AMERICANS
RESERVE, AS OF MARCH AMERICANS HELD MORE THAN $1 TRILLION WORTH
HELD MORE THAN $1 TRILLION WORTH OF CREDIT CARD DEBT, AND THE
OF CREDIT CARD DEBT, AND THE AVERAGE INTEREST RATE ON THAT
AVERAGE INTEREST RATE ON THAT DEBT IS 17.73%.
DEBT IS 17.73%. THAT’S ACCORDING TO
THAT’S ACCORDING TO CREDITCARDS.com.
CREDITCARDS.com. THE BILL LOOKS TO CAP CREDIT
THE BILL LOOKS TO CAP CREDIT CARD INTEREST RATES AT 15%,
CARD INTEREST RATES AT 15%, LAYING OUT HISTORICAL INTEREST
LAYING OUT HISTORICAL INTEREST RATES AS A ROADMAP.
RATES AS A ROADMAP. THEY ARE TAKING ON PAYDAY
THEY ARE TAKING ON PAYDAY LENDERS WHO CAN CHARGE -- READY
LENDERS WHO CAN CHARGE -- READY FOR THIS?
FOR THIS? BETWEEN 300% AND 900% INTEREST
BETWEEN 300% AND 900% INTEREST RATES ON LOANS.
RATES ON LOANS. THE BILL CAPS THOSE AT 15% JUST
THE BILL CAPS THOSE AT 15% JUST LIKE CREDIT CARDS.
LIKE CREDIT CARDS. IT ALSO ALLOWS LOW-INCOME
IT ALSO ALLOWS LOW-INCOME COMMUNITIES TO DO MUCH OF THEIR
COMMUNITIES TO DO MUCH OF THEIR BANKING AT THE POST OFFICE.
BANKING AT THE POST OFFICE. IT IS SOMETHING THAT MIGHT SOUND
IT IS SOMETHING THAT MIGHT SOUND A LITTLE STRANGE.
A LITTLE STRANGE. FROM THE EARLY 1900s UNTIL THE
FROM THE EARLY 1900s UNTIL THE EARLY 1960s, THAT’S EXACTLY WHAT
EARLY 1960s, THAT’S EXACTLY WHAT THE POST OFFICE DID.
THE POST OFFICE DID. SANDERS AND OCASIO-CORTEZ ARGUE
SANDERS AND OCASIO-CORTEZ ARGUE WOULD ALLOW LOW-INCOME ACCESS
WOULD ALLOW LOW-INCOME ACCESS AND PREVENT THEM FROM BECOMING
AND PREVENT THEM FROM BECOMING PREY.
PREY. >> JOINING US IS VERMONT SENATOR
>> JOINING US IS VERMONT SENATOR AND 2020 DEMOCRATIC PRESIDENTIAL
AND 2020 DEMOCRATIC PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE BERNIE SANDERS.
CANDIDATE BERNIE SANDERS. THANK YOU FOR BEING WITH US
THANK YOU FOR BEING WITH US AGAIN.
AGAIN. HERE IS A QUESTION STEPHANIE AND
HERE IS A QUESTION STEPHANIE AND I WERE TALKING ABOUT BEFORE WE
I WERE TALKING ABOUT BEFORE WE STARTED THE SEGMENT.
STARTED THE SEGMENT. IF INTEREST RATES OTHERWISE ARE
IF INTEREST RATES OTHERWISE ARE SET BY THE MARKET, WHY HAVE YOU
SET BY THE MARKET, WHY HAVE YOU DECIDED A 15% CAP IS WHERE TO
DECIDED A 15% CAP IS WHERE TO GO?
GO? WHAT HAPPENS IF WE GET INTO A
WHAT HAPPENS IF WE GET INTO A WORLD WHERE INTEREST RATES FOR
WORLD WHERE INTEREST RATES FOR MORTGAGES AND OTHERWISE ARE
MORTGAGES AND OTHERWISE ARE HIGHER?
HIGHER? SHOULDN’T IT BE SORT OF A RANGE
SHOULDN’T IT BE SORT OF A RANGE THAT’S RELATED TO SOMETHING LIKE
THAT’S RELATED TO SOMETHING LIKE THE PRIME RATE?
THE PRIME RATE? >> WELL, FIRST OF ALL, ALI, WHAT
>> WELL, FIRST OF ALL, ALI, WHAT WE SHOULD UNDERSTAND AND WHAT
WE SHOULD UNDERSTAND AND WHAT MAKES WHAT BANKS ARE DOING TODAY
MAKES WHAT BANKS ARE DOING TODAY SO OUTRAGEOUS IS THEY ARE
SO OUTRAGEOUS IS THEY ARE BORROWING MONEY AT 2.5% AND HALF
BORROWING MONEY AT 2.5% AND HALF OF THE PEOPLE WHO ARE PAYING
OF THE PEOPLE WHO ARE PAYING INTEREST RATES ARE PAYING MORE
INTEREST RATES ARE PAYING MORE ON CREDIT CARDS, ARE PAYING MORE
ON CREDIT CARDS, ARE PAYING MORE THAN 21%.
THAN 21%. SO IF YOUR POINT IS THAT IF
SO IF YOUR POINT IS THAT IF INTEREST RATES GO UP, MIGHT THE
INTEREST RATES GO UP, MIGHT THE MAXIMUM GO UP?
MAXIMUM GO UP? THAT IS ALSO INCLUDED IN THE
THAT IS ALSO INCLUDED IN THE LEGISLATION.
LEGISLATION. >> GOT IT.
>> GOT IT. OKAY.
OKAY. ALL RIGHT.
ALL RIGHT. SO WHAT THIS WOULD DO, AS YOU
SO WHAT THIS WOULD DO, AS YOU JUST ARTICULATED, IS IT WOULD
JUST ARTICULATED, IS IT WOULD CUT SHARPLY INTO PROFITS FOR
CUT SHARPLY INTO PROFITS FOR LENDERS, THE BANKS THAT MAKE
LENDERS, THE BANKS THAT MAKE THESE LOANS AND ISSUE THESE
THESE LOANS AND ISSUE THESE CREDIT CARDS.
CREDIT CARDS. DO YOU HAVE CONCERN THAT BECAUSE
DO YOU HAVE CONCERN THAT BECAUSE OF THAT THE BANKING LOBBY IS
OF THAT THE BANKING LOBBY IS VERY, VERY STRONG AND THEY
VERY, VERY STRONG AND THEY INFLUENCE A LOT OF YOUR
INFLUENCE A LOT OF YOUR COLLEAGUES, AS YOU HAVE KNOWN
COLLEAGUES, AS YOU HAVE KNOWN FOR THE LAST FEW DECADES?
FOR THE LAST FEW DECADES? >> DO I HAVE CONCERNS ABOUT
>> DO I HAVE CONCERNS ABOUT THAT?
THAT? WELL, THAT’S KIND OF AN
WELL, THAT’S KIND OF AN UNDERSTATEMENT.
UNDERSTATEMENT. LOOK, YOU GOT WALL STREET AND
LOOK, YOU GOT WALL STREET AND THE DRUG COMPANIES AND THE
THE DRUG COMPANIES AND THE INSURANCE COMPANIES BASICALLY
INSURANCE COMPANIES BASICALLY RUNNING THE UNITED STATES
RUNNING THE UNITED STATES CONGRESS.
CONGRESS. THAT’S WHY THE RICH ARE GETTING
THAT’S WHY THE RICH ARE GETTING RICHER AND SO MANY PEOPLE ARE
RICHER AND SO MANY PEOPLE ARE STRUGGLING.
STRUGGLING. BUT I THINK HERE -- AND I MEAN
BUT I THINK HERE -- AND I MEAN THIS FROM THE BOTTOM OF MY
THIS FROM THE BOTTOM OF MY HEART, YOU HAVE A PROFOUND MORAL
HEART, YOU HAVE A PROFOUND MORAL ISSUE.
ISSUE. EVERY MAJOR RELIGION,
EVERY MAJOR RELIGION, CHRISTIANITY, JUDAISM, ISLAM,
CHRISTIANITY, JUDAISM, ISLAM, EVERY RELIGION UNDERSTANDS THAT
EVERY RELIGION UNDERSTANDS THAT USURY AND LOAN SHARKING ARE
USURY AND LOAN SHARKING ARE IMMORAL.
IMMORAL. LET’S CALL THIS WHAT IT IS.
LET’S CALL THIS WHAT IT IS. THIS IS LOAN SHARKING.
THIS IS LOAN SHARKING. NOW, I DON’T KNOW THAT THE
NOW, I DON’T KNOW THAT THE WELL-PAID EXECUTIVES ON WALL
WELL-PAID EXECUTIVES ON WALL STREET GO AROUND BREAKING
STREET GO AROUND BREAKING PEOPLE’S FINGERS OR THEIR
PEOPLE’S FINGERS OR THEIR KNEECAPS, BUT WHAT THEY ARE
KNEECAPS, BUT WHAT THEY ARE DOING -- AND THINK ABOUT THIS.
DOING -- AND THINK ABOUT THIS. HALF OF THE AMERICAN PEOPLE
HALF OF THE AMERICAN PEOPLE TODAY HAVE NO WEALTH AT ALL.
TODAY HAVE NO WEALTH AT ALL. THEY’RE LIVING PAYCHECK TO
THEY’RE LIVING PAYCHECK TO PAYCHECK.
PAYCHECK. YOU HAVE A MEDICAL EMERGENCY,
YOU HAVE A MEDICAL EMERGENCY, YOUR CAR BREAKS DOWN, THESE ARE
YOUR CAR BREAKS DOWN, THESE ARE DESPERATE PEOPLE.
DESPERATE PEOPLE. AND THEN THEY GO TO WALL STREET
AND THEN THEY GO TO WALL STREET AND THEY’RE CHARGED OUTRAGEOUS
AND THEY’RE CHARGED OUTRAGEOUS INTEREST RATES.
INTEREST RATES. WALL STREET PROFITS ARE SOARING.
WALL STREET PROFITS ARE SOARING. PEOPLE GET FURTHER AND FURTHER
PEOPLE GET FURTHER AND FURTHER IN DEBT WHILE WAGES REMAIN
IN DEBT WHILE WAGES REMAIN STAGNANT.
STAGNANT. THIS REALLY IS DISGUSTING AND IT
THIS REALLY IS DISGUSTING AND IT HAS TO -- WE HAVE TO STAND UP TO
HAS TO -- WE HAVE TO STAND UP TO THE GREED OF WALL STREET AND
THE GREED OF WALL STREET AND CHANGE IT.
CHANGE IT. >> IS THERE ANY AVENUE TO WORK
>> IS THERE ANY AVENUE TO WORK IN A PRODUCTIVE WAY -- AND THE
IN A PRODUCTIVE WAY -- AND THE REASON I SAY THIS IS BECAUSE
REASON I SAY THIS IS BECAUSE PAYDAY LENDING IS THE BEST
PAYDAY LENDING IS THE BEST EXAMPLE.
EXAMPLE. WE SAW GREAT STRIDES TO PROTECT
WE SAW GREAT STRIDES TO PROTECT OUR MOST VULNERABLE AMERICANS
OUR MOST VULNERABLE AMERICANS AGAINST PAYDAY LENDERS IN THE
AGAINST PAYDAY LENDERS IN THE LAST FEW YEARS.
LAST FEW YEARS. >> UNDER THE CONSUMER PROTECTION
>> UNDER THE CONSUMER PROTECTION BUREAU.
BUREAU. >> CORRECT.
>> CORRECT. AND NOW THE CONSUMER PROTECTION
AND NOW THE CONSUMER PROTECTION BUREAU HAS HAD ITS LIGHTS
BUREAU HAS HAD ITS LIGHTS KNOCKED OUT.
KNOCKED OUT. >> RIGHT.
>> RIGHT. >> AND WE KNOW HOW POWERFUL AND
>> AND WE KNOW HOW POWERFUL AND WELL ITTY THE
WELL ITTY THE WEALTHY THE LOBBY OF IS PAYDAY
WEALTHY THE LOBBY OF IS PAYDAY LENDERS.
LENDERS. OBVIOUSLY THE VULNERABLE
OBVIOUSLY THE VULNERABLE AMERICANS CAN’T GO UP AGAINST
AMERICANS CAN’T GO UP AGAINST THAT KIND OF LOBBY.
THAT KIND OF LOBBY. >> RIGHT.
>> RIGHT. >> SO IS THERE SOME SORT OF WAY
>> SO IS THERE SOME SORT OF WAY TO WORK WITH BANKS ON FINDING A
TO WORK WITH BANKS ON FINDING A COMMON GROUND?
COMMON GROUND? BECAUSE THE RISK WE RUN IS
BECAUSE THE RISK WE RUN IS FLIP-FLOPPING ADMINISTRATIONS
FLIP-FLOPPING ADMINISTRATIONS JUST GOING ALL THE WAY ONE
JUST GOING ALL THE WAY ONE DIRECTION OR THE OTHER.
DIRECTION OR THE OTHER. BECAUSE FOR THOSE VULNERABLE
BECAUSE FOR THOSE VULNERABLE AMERICANS IT IS DEVASTATING THAT
AMERICANS IT IS DEVASTATING THAT WE’RE RIGHT BACK TO WHERE WE
WE’RE RIGHT BACK TO WHERE WE WERE BEFORE 2008 AS FAR AS
WERE BEFORE 2008 AS FAR AS REGULATION GOES.
REGULATION GOES. >> IT IS DEVASTATING AND IT
>> IT IS DEVASTATING AND IT IS -- YOU KNOW, I CAN’T USE THE
IS -- YOU KNOW, I CAN’T USE THE WORD OUTRAGEOUS WHEN WE TALK
WORD OUTRAGEOUS WHEN WE TALK ABOUT THE TRUMP ADMINISTRATION.
ABOUT THE TRUMP ADMINISTRATION. I GUESS THAT’S BECOME A
I GUESS THAT’S BECOME A HACKNEYED EXPRESSION.
HACKNEYED EXPRESSION. IT HAPPENS EVERY DAY.
IT HAPPENS EVERY DAY. BUT TO MAKE IT EASIER FOR PAYDAY
BUT TO MAKE IT EASIER FOR PAYDAY LENDERS TO GET BLOOD OUT OF A
LENDERS TO GET BLOOD OUT OF A STONE IS REALLY DISGRACEFUL.
STONE IS REALLY DISGRACEFUL. CAN YOU WORK WITH THE BANKS?
CAN YOU WORK WITH THE BANKS? MAYBE, BUT I HAVE MY DOUBTS.
MAYBE, BUT I HAVE MY DOUBTS. LOOK, THIS IS WHAT I BELIEVE AND
LOOK, THIS IS WHAT I BELIEVE AND I THINK MANY AMERICANS AGREE,
I THINK MANY AMERICANS AGREE, WHETHER IT IS WALL STREET,
WHETHER IT IS WALL STREET, WHETHER IT IS THE PHARMACEUTICAL
WHETHER IT IS THE PHARMACEUTICAL INDUSTRY WHERE THE TOP TEN
INDUSTRY WHERE THE TOP TEN COMPANIES MADE 69 BILLION IN
COMPANIES MADE 69 BILLION IN PROFITS LAST YEAR WHILE CHARGING
PROFITS LAST YEAR WHILE CHARGING US THE HIGHEST PRICES IN THE
US THE HIGHEST PRICES IN THE WORLD.
WORLD. WHETHER IT IS THE INSURANCE
WHETHER IT IS THE INSURANCE COMPANIES WHO ARE GOING TO END
COMPANIES WHO ARE GOING TO END UP SPENDING 100 MILLIONS OF
UP SPENDING 100 MILLIONS OF DOLLARS TRYING TO DEFEAT
DOLLARS TRYING TO DEFEAT MEDICARE FOR ALL.
MEDICARE FOR ALL. WHETHER IT IS THE FOSSIL FUEL
WHETHER IT IS THE FOSSIL FUEL INDUSTRY THAT’S DESTROYING THE
INDUSTRY THAT’S DESTROYING THE PLANET AND LYING ABOUT IT.
PLANET AND LYING ABOUT IT. WE ARE TAKING ON AN INCREDIBLE
WE ARE TAKING ON AN INCREDIBLE AMOUNT OF CORPORATE GREED,
AMOUNT OF CORPORATE GREED, UNLIMITED AMOUNTS OF MONEY,
UNLIMITED AMOUNTS OF MONEY, LOBBYING POWER, CAMPAIGN
LOBBYING POWER, CAMPAIGN CONTRIBUTIONS.
CONTRIBUTIONS. WHAT THE AMERICAN PEOPLE REALLY
WHAT THE AMERICAN PEOPLE REALLY HAVE GOT TO DO -- THIS IS NOT
HAVE GOT TO DO -- THIS IS NOT RHETORIC.
RHETORIC. THIS IS REALITY.
THIS IS REALITY. THEY HAVE TO STAND UP AND SAY
THEY HAVE TO STAND UP AND SAY ENOUGH IS ENOUGH.
ENOUGH IS ENOUGH. WE NEED AN ECONOMY THAT WORKS
WE NEED AN ECONOMY THAT WORKS FOR ALL PEOPLE, NOT JUST THE
FOR ALL PEOPLE, NOT JUST THE PEOPLE ON TOP.
PEOPLE ON TOP. >> SENATOR, WE JUST TALKED TO
>> SENATOR, WE JUST TALKED TO CONGRESSMAN MOLTON ABOUT HEALTH
CONGRESSMAN MOLTON ABOUT HEALTH CARE.
CARE. HE DOESN’T SUPPORT A MEDICARE
HE DOESN’T SUPPORT A MEDICARE FOR ALL OR A VERSION OF A
FOR ALL OR A VERSION OF A SINGLE-PAYER SYSTEM.
SINGLE-PAYER SYSTEM. AS YOU AND I HAVE TALKED ABOUT
AS YOU AND I HAVE TALKED ABOUT BEFORE, I GREW UP IN CANADA SO I
BEFORE, I GREW UP IN CANADA SO I AM PARTIAL TO A SINGLE-PAYER
AM PARTIAL TO A SINGLE-PAYER SYSTEM.
SYSTEM. BUT I WONDER WITH MEDICARE FOR
BUT I WONDER WITH MEDICARE FOR ALL, WHY DO YOU THINK IT
ALL, WHY DO YOU THINK IT WOULDN’T HAVE BEEN MORE
WOULDN’T HAVE BEEN MORE REASONABLE TO RETOOL THE
REASONABLE TO RETOOL THE AFFORDABLE ACT TO WORK AS IT WAS
AFFORDABLE ACT TO WORK AS IT WAS INITIALLY CONCEIVED BUT NOT
INITIALLY CONCEIVED BUT NOT EXECUTED, AS AN INSURANCE POOL
EXECUTED, AS AN INSURANCE POOL WHERE EVERYBODY IS IN IT, OLD
WHERE EVERYBODY IS IN IT, OLD AND SICK, YOUNG AND HEALTHY,
AND SICK, YOUNG AND HEALTHY, WITH THE YOUNG AND HEALTHY
WITH THE YOUNG AND HEALTHY OFFSETTING THE COSTS FOR THE OLD
OFFSETTING THE COSTS FOR THE OLD AND SICK?
AND SICK? TALK TO ME ABOUT THE THINKING
TALK TO ME ABOUT THE THINKING ABOUT WHY NOT RETOOL THAT BUT GO
ABOUT WHY NOT RETOOL THAT BUT GO TO A MEDICARE FOR ALL SYSTEM.
TO A MEDICARE FOR ALL SYSTEM. >> BECAUSE YOU HAVE A
>> BECAUSE YOU HAVE A DYSFUNCTIONAL SYSTEM.
DYSFUNCTIONAL SYSTEM. THAT’S ALL.
THAT’S ALL. IT IS A DISFINKSALYSFUNCTIONAL S
IT IS A DISFINKSALYSFUNCTIONAL S WHICH, YOU KNOW, TENS OF
WHICH, YOU KNOW, TENS OF MILLIONS ARE UNINSURED OR
MILLIONS ARE UNINSURED OR UNDERINSURED.
UNDERINSURED. WE PAY THE HIGHEST PRICES IN THE
WE PAY THE HIGHEST PRICES IN THE WORLD FOR PRESCRIPTION DRUGS AND
WORLD FOR PRESCRIPTION DRUGS AND WE END UP SPENDING TWICE AS MUCH
WE END UP SPENDING TWICE AS MUCH PER CAPITA ON HEALTH CARE AS DO
PER CAPITA ON HEALTH CARE AS DO THE PEOPLE OF CANADA OR ANY
THE PEOPLE OF CANADA OR ANY OTHER NATION.
OTHER NATION. YOU HAVE TO GET TO THE ROOT OF
YOU HAVE TO GET TO THE ROOT OF THAT.
THAT. THE ROOT OF THE CURRENT HEALTH
THE ROOT OF THE CURRENT HEALTH CARE SYSTEM IS THAT IT IS NOT
CARE SYSTEM IS THAT IT IS NOT DESIGNED TO PROVIDE QUALITY CARE
DESIGNED TO PROVIDE QUALITY CARE TO ALL PEOPLE.
TO ALL PEOPLE. YOU CAN ARGUE ABOUT THE
YOU CAN ARGUE ABOUT THE STRENGTHS AND WEAKNESSES OF THE
STRENGTHS AND WEAKNESSES OF THE CANADIAN SYSTEM OR EVERY OTHER
CANADIAN SYSTEM OR EVERY OTHER MAJOR COUNTRY ON EARTH’S
MAJOR COUNTRY ON EARTH’S SYSTEMS, BUT THEY’RE ALL
SYSTEMS, BUT THEY’RE ALL DESIGNED TO PROVIDE QUALITY CARE
DESIGNED TO PROVIDE QUALITY CARE TO ALL PEOPLE.
TO ALL PEOPLE. OUR SYSTEM IS DESIGNED TO MAKE
OUR SYSTEM IS DESIGNED TO MAKE HUGE PROFITS FOR THE INSURANCE
HUGE PROFITS FOR THE INSURANCE COMPANIES AND THE DRUG
COMPANIES AND THE DRUG COMPANIES.
COMPANIES. NOT ONLY IS THAT PROBLEMATIC, IT
NOT ONLY IS THAT PROBLEMATIC, IT CREATES AN UNBELIEVABLY
CREATES AN UNBELIEVABLY COMPLICATED BUREAUCRACY WHERE WE
COMPLICATED BUREAUCRACY WHERE WE SPEND HUNDREDS OF BILLIONS OF
SPEND HUNDREDS OF BILLIONS OF DOLLARS ON ADMINISTRATION AND
DOLLARS ON ADMINISTRATION AND BILLING AND DISTORTING HEALTH
BILLING AND DISTORTING HEALTH CARE PRIORITIES, SUCH THAT WE
CARE PRIORITIES, SUCH THAT WE HAVE A VERY WEAK PRIMARY HEALTH
HAVE A VERY WEAK PRIMARY HEALTH CARE SYSTEM WHICH NOT ONLY IS
CARE SYSTEM WHICH NOT ONLY IS ABSOLUTE IMPERATIVE, IT WASTES
ABSOLUTE IMPERATIVE, IT WASTES ENORMOUS MONEY IF PEOPLE CAN’T
ENORMOUS MONEY IF PEOPLE CAN’T WALK IN A DOCTOR’S OFFICE WHEN
WALK IN A DOCTOR’S OFFICE WHEN THEY SHOULD.
THEY SHOULD. THE PRIORITIES ARE DISTORTED.
THE PRIORITIES ARE DISTORTED. MASSIVE AMOUNTS OF BUREAUCRACY,
MASSIVE AMOUNTS OF BUREAUCRACY, MASSIVE AMOUNTS OF PROFIT
MASSIVE AMOUNTS OF PROFIT TAKING, AND THAT SYSTEM HAS TO
TAKING, AND THAT SYSTEM HAS TO CHANGE.
CHANGE. BY THE WAY, I WOULD ADD TO IT.
BY THE WAY, I WOULD ADD TO IT. MEDICARE TODAY FOR THE ELDERLY
MEDICARE TODAY FOR THE ELDERLY IS THE MOST POPULAR HEALTH
IS THE MOST POPULAR HEALTH INSURANCE PROGRAM IN AMERICA.
INSURANCE PROGRAM IN AMERICA. WHAT WE ARE PROPOSING IS OVER A
