JUDY WOODRUFF: And now we turn to the analysis
of Shields and Brooks. That's syndicated columnist
Mark Shields and New York Times columnist
David Brooks.
So, all three of us are at our homes. It's
great to see both you, Mark, and you, David,
staying safe.
Let's start with President Trump's decision
to turn over to the governors the decision
about whether and when to open up.
Mark, we have seen the state of Georgia, other
states moving quickly to reverse the stay-at-home
orders. There are questions being raised about
whether it's too early. The president himself
at point -- backing down on his support for
this.
How do you read all this?
MARK SHIELDS: It's -- you have to watch it
closely, Judy.
I mean, last -- just last weekend, the president
was in bold type tweeting out, liberate Minnesota,
liberate Michigan, liberate Virginia, to put
pressure on Democratic governors there to
lift the bans and lift the quarantine.
So Kemp, the governor of Georgia, who was
the last in the country to impose stay-at-home
rules, wants to be the first to lift them,
and thought he had a green light from the
president, I guess.
But the president doesn't forget the fact
that, while he is a loyal supporter of Mr.
Kemp's, it's an off-and-on thing, because
Kemp, if you will recall, just at a petty
political point, instead of appointing to
Johnny Isakson's vacancy in the United States
Senate Doug Collins, the congressman from
Georgia who had been so close to the president,
he appointed Kelly Loeffler.
And, all of a sudden, Donald Trump, the president,
was told, according to reports from CNN, by
-- both by Anthony Fauci, Dr. Anthony Fauci,
that he could not support and wouldn't defend
the lifting of the quarantine in Georgia,
so he backed off.
And it appears to be a cynical political ploy,
with the following formula: For anything that
improves the economy, the president gets credit.
For any increase in the pandemic, in incidents
of disease and death, that has been the decision
of the governor.
JUDY WOODRUFF: And so, David, I mean, the
president, by doing this, is passing on responsibility
to the governors, for better or worse.
DAVID BROOKS: Yes, and I'm happy about it.
I don't want life-or-death decisions made
by a guy who thinks this can be solved by
drinking disinfectant. So, if you can get
it out of the White House, we're getting it
into safer and better hands.
There's like division of powers here. The
federal government is there to dole out money
and to organize some of the testing and things
like that. And so far, it's doing a reasonably
good job of doling out a lot of money.
But the states are there to make the decisions
about their own states. If you had people
in Wyoming deciding -- thinking that Washington
was going to determine their life or death,
they'd rebel against Washington. If you had
a lot of progressive areas thinking that Donald
Trump was going to determine life-or-death
decisions, they would rebel against Donald
Trump.
So, I think it's just much better to be doing
this on the local level.
The one final thing I will say, we tend to
gin up conflict. But, in this, I think we're
overstating how much conflict there is in
America. Americans, considered how polarized,
we're amazingly united right now; 98 percent
of Democrats and 82 percent of Republicans
support the social distancing; 90 percent
of Americans, complete bipartisan consensus,
believe that, if we loosened too much, there'd
be a second wave; 76 percent of Americans
say, even if their governor did loosen, they
wouldn't go out.
And so, to me, the big story here is that
we're sort of hanging together through this.
JUDY WOODRUFF: Evidently so, if you believe
those polls.
But, Mark, going back to what David mentioned
a moment ago, and that is the president's
statement yesterday about injecting ultraviolet
light or disinfectant into ourselves, I mean,
today, the White House was saying that that
was just a joke, they didn't mean it.
But there have been other statements that
he's made about endorsing this anti-malaria
drug that the experts are saying cannot be
relied on.
What are the American people to make of all
this?
MARK SHIELDS: Well, Judy, I think maybe the
most unreported story of the week was Piers
Morgan, the British television journalist,
who is a friend of the president, one of the
47 people on Twitter the president has access
to -- he has given three interviews to British
television all his presidency, all three to
Piers Morgan.
And Piers Morgan went public and said what
an awful lot of Trump supporters and critics
have been saying. And that is, Mr. President,
you're really hurting yourself in these television
talk -- daily conferences, that you're coming
across as self-aggrandizing, as self-interested,
as really not a leader, concerned more, basically,
about your own reelection than you are about
the health and well-being of the people who
elected you.
And I really think that that crystallized
the criticism. A number of Republicans have
followed. And I think you will see the president
backing off.
Yesterday's performance was the worst. I mean,
to say Lysol is a possibility for inhalation
sarcastically, he's not Will Rogers. He's
not Jerry Seinfeld. He's not a man known for
his sense of humor.
It wasn't sarcasm. It was just Donald Trump
being absolutely reckless and irresponsible.
And I think the quick -- they have seen his
numbers drop, and I think the daily press
conference has been the principal contributing
factor to it.
JUDY WOODRUFF: And, David, just in the last
hour, the White House has let it be known
that they are now going to be cutting short
these daily briefings, some of which have
gone on for two hours and longer.
So I mean, how much, in the end, does it matter
what the president is saying at a time like
this? Are the American people -- how much
do they need to hear from their political
leader, and how much do they need to hear
from medical experts?
DAVID BROOKS: They need medical experts.
It's a morale destroyer. It's tough on morale.
It's a drain on all of us. And even the Trump
supporters feel drained by his foolery.
But I don't think it's really damaged the
way people act. A funny thing has happened,
I noticed, in my local grocery store. Like
a month ago, maybe 5 percent of the people
were wearing masks. Then it was 30 percent.
And then it suddenly flipped, and it was 70
percent.
And starting two weeks ago, if you weren't
wearing a mask, even before the law came down,
people spoke to you and said, you need to
get a mask.
And so what that shows to me is a community
setting new norms, setting new moral standards,
having new expectations of how we should protect
one another.
And when I see a community acting as one,
like in the grocery store, and we all see
it, then you see a community that's basically
healthy, that -- where people are -- understand
the obligations they have to each other. And
that was not automatic going into this.
Most plagues, that's not how people behave.
So, I think it hurts our morale, what Trump
does. But I wouldn't say it's destroyed it.
JUDY WOODRUFF: Interesting, what you say about,
you see people at the grocery store. We're
seeing much this the same thing.
David -- I mean, Mark, I want to quickly come
to what Congress was able to do this week.
And that is in passing legislation to provide
more support for small businesses, some of
it for hospitals and others.
How much difference is this aid going to make?
How much more is going to be needed? We're
already seeing worry about the size of the
deficit, of the debt the country is going
to owe when all this is over.
Where does the argument land there?
MARK SHIELDS: I don't know how much difference
it's going to make.
I will say this, Judy. The immortal Dante,
as FDR referred to him, weighs the sins of
the cold-hearted and the sins of the warm-hearted
on a different scale. In other words, this
is reaching out to people who had not -- who
had been left out of the first aid to minorities,
to women, to small -- really small businesses,
not publicly traded companies, which hundreds
of millions of dollars of small business aid
went to, to hospitals, the people who are
on the front line and dealing with this terrible
tragedy every day.
And, you know, to me, it showed an awareness
and an understanding. I don't think anybody
understands the gravity economically. It's
going to be -- it is enormous. It will be
enormous.
But, right now, what we have seen is sort
of a bait and switch on the part of Republicans,
who said, oh, you can do the aid to local
cities and states in the next one, said Kevin
McCarthy, the Republican House leader.
JUDY WOODRUFF: Right.
MARK SHIELDS: And now Mitch McConnell, the
Senate Republican leader, says there will
be no next one.
JUDY WOODRUFF: Right.
So, David, just in a few words, how much is
the worry about the debt, the deficit, going
to be part of this going forward, as people
are hurting?
DAVID BROOKS: Yes, I don't think it should
be.
In wartime, even fiscal conservatives believe
in spending. They have done a good thing.
This paycheck protection act for small businesses,
it's impressive how much money they have gotten
out the door.
There's somebody in the Small Business Administration
who is probably working 18-hour days. A lot
of people are probably working days to get
that much money.
I have sort of been impressed by how much
they have gotten out the door, the money for
testing. They're bickering, but they did something
good this week. They spent hundreds of billions
of dollars. And they passed a very complicated
piece of legislation on a bipartisan basis.
It's funny to me that the members of Congress,
even when they do something good, they can't
take a victory lap. They're so used to just
bickering and bickering and bickering.
JUDY WOODRUFF: In just about 45 seconds we
have left, I want to ask each of you how you're
doing, staying at home all the time, or almost
all the time.
Mark, how is it going?
MARK SHIELDS: Well, Judy, I'm rereading Tolstoy
for the third time.
And -- no, I'm not.
(LAUGHTER)
MARK SHIELDS: I have rearranged my sock drawer.
And I'm doing fine. I have got a wonderful
roommate. And I have had the same one for
half-a-century. And I'm just finding new and
wonderful things about her every day.
JUDY WOODRUFF: Pretty great roommate. We know
Anne Shields.
David, what about you? How are you holding
up? How are you doing?
DAVID BROOKS: Yes, I'm blessed.
I have got a good, fine group of people here
in my little forged family. And I'm playing
my son in ping-pong ferociously, and I'm hoping
to develop a backhand by the end of this.
So there are little blessings amid the great
worry that we're all going through. But there
are little blessings, even in these days,
with family.
JUDY WOODRUFF: I feel the same way. So much
more to be grateful for than the other way
around.
Well, we're grateful to the two of you.
David Brooks, Mark Shields, thank you, and
please stay safe.
MARK SHIELDS: Thank you, Judy.
