Interviewer: But first, in 1963 two young
undergraduates bumped into each other at a
Cambridge party.
[Film Clip]
Stephen: Hello.
Jane: Hello
Stephen: Science.
Jane: Arts
Stephen: English
Jane: French and Spanish
Jane: And what about you?
Jane: Wh-what do you...?
Stephen: Oh, Cosmologist. I'm a Cosmologist.
Jane: What's that?
Stephen: It's a kind of religion for intelligent atheists.
Jane: Intelligent atheists?
Stephen: You are not religious are you?
Jane: C of E. Church of England.
Stephen: Yes, I suppose someone has to
be.
Jane: What does cosmologists worship then?
Stephen: What do we worship?
Jane: Mhm.
Stephen: One single unifying equation that
explains everything in the universe.
Jane: Really?
Stephen: Yes.
Jane: What’s the equation?
Stephen: That is the question. And a very
good question. [Laugh] I am not quite sure yet,
but I intend to find out.
Interviewer: Well that was Eddie Redmayne
and Felicity Jones imagining the first meeting
of Stephen Hawking and Jane Wilde in the new
film, The Theory of Everything. It tells a
story of how Jane went on to marry the brilliant
young astrophysicist knowing that he had motor
neuron disease and had been given only three
years to live. Together Professor Stephen
Hawking and his wife Jane confounded all possible
expectations as the years turned into decades.
And they had three children together before
separating in 1990. Both went on to remarry.
Stephen to his nurse Elaine Mason from who he has since
divorced and Jane to a long standing family friend
Jonathan Hellyer Jones.
Well the film is a fascinating glimpse into
their lives before and after the diagnosis
and it’s based on Jane’s Autobiography
Travelling to Infinity. Jane Hawking told me
what it was like seeing her life on screen.
Jane: Felicity’s performance was phenomenal.
She came to dinner several times when they
were filming in Cambridge and I got to know
her quite well, but she studied me obviously
while we were talking and we talked a lot.
And, when I saw her on the screen I was flabbergasted
because she captured my mannerisms, my movements,
my patterns of speech. Even—
Interviewer: I know when I see a snap shot
of Eddie Redmayne and Felicity Jones in the
wedding when you got married and an actual
black and white shot of you and Stephen you
almost do a double take don’t you?
Jane: Yes. Stephen says that he’s seen photos
of himself as young man and Eddie side by
side and he has difficulty knowing which is
which.
Interviewer: And the decision to get married
which was in 1965 when you were both very
young seems to have been an extraordinary
thing to do of your life because at that point
he’d had his diagnosis of motor neuron disease
and you knew that a battle lay ahead. But,
you thought it was going to be quite a short
battle didn’t you?
Jane: When Stephen’s father told me that
Stephen had two or three years to live
at most and I felt I could devote myself to
him for those two or three years. I loved
him, I wanted to marry him and I wanted to
do my best for him to give him every opportunity.
Also though I have to tell people that we
were living under the Nuclear Cloud and it
only took what would take only one spark to
ignite a conflagration i.e. a Nuclear war which
was going to be the end of civilization; the
end of all of us.
Interviewer: You also gave up a lot when you
got married which again wasn’t unusual for
women of your generation, you know, you were educated
you studied languages you hoped for a career
in the diplomatic service. You then dedicated
your life to your husband and family. But,
do you feel like you gave up more than other
women, other friends?
Jane: Well to look at it from one perspective
I think ours was the last generation for whom
a home and a family were the great aims in
life. On the other hand my father insisted
that I finish my degree in London. So, I did
finish my first degree and then I looked around
for what could I do and I realized very quickly
that being a wife and a mother in Cambridge
was a passport to nowhere. There was no respect
for wives and mothers in the academic--
Interviewer: Did you resent that?
Jane: I thought I needed to do something about
it. So I started work on a Ph.D. on medieval
Spanish poetry which was a lovely thing to
do but it was quite difficult to manage first
of all Stephen and a Ph.D. - That wasn’t so
difficult because we were both working together,
but then when the children came along when
I was looking after or playing with the children
I felt I should be doing my Ph.D. and when
I was doing my Ph.D. I thought I should be
looking after or playing with the children.
So there was a constant tension there and
because of all the other things I had to do
looking after Stephen of course, looking after
the household. It took me a very, very long
time to finish it. I finished it actually
just before Tim, my youngest son, was born.
Interviewer: I mean you talk of the years
of child care but you also talk of the “Stephen
Care”. Now as a carer you sacrifice your
own needs much of the time and it was endless
caring. Did that take its toll? You described
how you became a drudge in the book.
Jane: Eventually. At first we were trying
to be a normal family living a normal life.
I was very young. I had bags of energy and
I managed, I coped. Stephen did have help
from his friends and colleagues I mustn’t
forget them because when he went to the department
of applied maths during the day they looked
after him there and they brought him home
for lunch and they brought him home in the
evening. It was really after fame and fortune
took hold that I began to find things very
difficult. I was not as strong as I used to
be. I was very tired; in fact eventually I
was just worn out.
Interviewer: Because there were a lot of occasions
where someone had to be with Stephen 24 hours.
You’d sit up all night and you would do
shifts wouldn’t you because you were worried
about him?
Jane: My darling mum came over from St Albans
and she would sit up with Stephen all night
when I was exhausted and then one of his very
special students Bernard Carr also came and
helped out in the same way. Stephen hated
being in hospital he didn’t want to go into
hospital and when he had to go into hospital
he wanted to get out as quickly as he could.
And we didn’t have a nursing team at home
in those days and it meant that the family
had to look after him at night with his dreadful,
dreadful choking fits which was so, so scary.
Interviewer: So you were living on a knife
edge weren’t you between life and death?
Jane: I described it as living on a precipice;
the edge of a precipice. But, even so I said
in the book that if you live on a precipice
long enough you actually begin to put down
roots and then a little tree grows up on the
edge of the precipice.
Interviewer: It sounds like Stephen is a sort
of non-confrontational person because you
never discussed his illness it was like a
“no go” area wasn’t it?
Jane: He would not talk about it. And I think
that probably was my mistake because if when
we were very young I’d insisted on talking
about it, it might have been rather easier
later.
Interviewer: But going back to your relationship,
your platonic relationship with this lovely
widower Jonathan who comes into your life
having cared for his terminally ill wife.
And in fact slots in really well and he is
quite happy to do all the caring duties for
Stephen as well and in fact--
Jane: He takes over and he helps with duties
that when I was too exhausted to do myself.
Interviewer: How did you manage with loving
a man who you refused to have an affair with?
In the film it comes across a profound sense
of duty both of you.
Jane: I felt I was committed to Stephen and
Jonathan was committed as he says in the film
not just to me but to the family as well.
He was very lonely having been widowed so recently
and he was not ready to have an affair. He
was looking for some fulfilment in his life.
Interviewer: Now your relationship with Stephen
ended unhappily when he had a relationship
with one of his nurses, Elaine Mason who he
eventually married and has since now divorced.
What was that period in your life like Jane?
Did you feel utter betrayal?
Jane: No, because I realised that Jonathan
was in my life and I felt that Stephen had
every right to have somebody in his life.
But, I did want us to be able to continue
as a family and I felt that Stephen needed
me in his life because I knew all the routines.
I cared for him. I was committed to him. I
felt that he needed my protection, but evidently
that is not what he and his nurse wanted.
So that was actually the end of the marriage.
Interviewer: Has your relationship resolved
since then?
Jane: Between Stephen and me?
Interviewer: Yes.
Jane: Oh well we have three children and we
have three grandchildren and I think that
it’s very important for the family to have
a sense of unity and to be able to do things
together. To be able to go on holiday together,
to be able to have meals on festive occasions
together. And, to enjoy things like The Theory
of Everything together.
Interviewer: What was it like as the years
kept passing by and not to put too fine of
a point on it, Stephen was still alive?
Jane: Life goes on doesn’t it? One year
succeeds another and you concentrate on all
the really wonderful things: your children,
their success, the grandchildren and their
success. And, in a sense Stephen and I had
won the battle against motor neuron disease
and that was a great success too.
Interviewer: Would he ever have achieved what
he did without you?
Jane: Now that I cannot answer. Other people
have suggested that, that might be the case,
but who knows what could have happened.
Interviewer: One point in the film Stephen
says to you “you don’t know what’s coming.”
If you had known would you have made the same
decision to get married?
Jane: … [pauses]
I think if I had known I would then also
have known that I would be wanting to do things
differently. I would want to be able to talk
about the illness with him. I would want to
be able to make better provisions. I would
want to be much more careful about vetting
people who came into the house as nurses and
carers. So I would have wanted to have been
in a strong position myself and I would have
definitely wanted a lot more help.
[Outro]
Interviewer: I was talking to Jane Hawking
and that film The Theory of Everything opened
yesterday and it is very, very good indeed.
