My next guest is certainly well known for
representing O.J. Simpson during the trial
of the century, which captivated television
viewers across the nation.
Throughout his career, he's been involved
in many other high-profile cases from the
Patty Hearst bank robbery trial to the Sam
Sheppard murder case, not to mention his countless
other cases that have received far less attention.
His innovation and legendary trial skills
have improved the chances for all Americans
to get a fair trial in a criminal case.
Joining me now to discuss the impact of that
is F. Lee Bailey.
Lee, I have to ask you at least one question
about the O.J. trial, even though it's been
covered ad nauseam.
What impact do you think that trial had on
how the media covers legal cases considering
24-hour news networks these days?
What's your thought?
Well, I'm sorry to say I think the bulk of
the fallout from the news coverage of the
Simpson case was poor.
First of all, the old line of experienced
courtroom criminal reporters had pretty much
died out by the time that trial went on, with
one very prominent exception, and she worked
for the Associated Press.
She'd been around a long time.
She got it right on a daily basis.
As far as the other stations, they were all
over the place.
Court TV did a pretty good job.
NBC did okay when Jack Ford was on, not so
good when others were on, but Johnnie Cochran
and I used to sit around and watch the news
and say, "What courtroom were these people
in?"
They just kept missing what the day was about.
Lee, let me move on from O.J. Simpson.
Let me move on from O.J. Simpson.
You're working on a book right now that describes
some of the cases that the media didn't pick
up.
These were cases, in my review of what you've
done in your career, you've changed the way
that criminal cases are handled in our courtrooms
for the better.
You've given people that have been charged
with criminal offenses a better chance to
present their case.
Give us a rundown on some of the cases you'd
like to talk about that maybe mainstream media
or corporate media have not been talking about.
What's your thought?
Well, in their day, they were much publicized
on an international basis.
The two most important cases from my perspective
as part of my career accomplishments were
the retrial of Dr. Sam Sheppard, known better
to the public as the TV show and movie The
Fugitive, and the trial of Captain Ernest
Medina, the commander of the My Lai four invasion
in Vietnam, which is one of the darkest moments
in American military history.
There we had a lieutenant and a couple of
sergeants with machine guns just gunning down
women, children, babies, and elderly people
because they had the wrong information and
were not using their eyes.
Lawyers, or really anybody who's followed
your career, want to ask this question.
If I were to ask you what do you think was
the most positive impact that you've had in
your career, where it came to giving a person
a fair shot, that's all they can ask for,
giving a person a fair shot in the courtroom,
what would you say you've done that you think
... that you've helped impact the legal world?
Well, I think the Sheppard case, which came
out of the US Supreme Court after he had lost
11 appeals.
That was the condition of the case when I
got it.
I brought suit in federal court, a habeas
corpus petition.
I won it at that level.
The Sixth Circuit overturned me two to one.
The Supreme Court flipped it again eight to
one and created the landmark case that said
the courts have to be aware of pretrial publicity
and prejudice in the courtroom, particularly
at the outset of a case when a jury's being
picked.
That had never really been established before
Sheppard against Maxwell back in 1966, so
I put a feather in the cap for that one at
least.
Yeah, well you have a lot to put a feather
in your cap about, Lee.
I wrote a book one time about Clarence Darrow
and I realized that as I was writing about
Darrow, I looked at his career, and he had
accomplished so much for the average person
out there that he in a lot of ways became
a target.
I mean, you had establishment going after
Clarence Darrow at every turn, because he
represented people in courtrooms that ordinarily
wouldn't get his quality of representation.
Have you felt like that from time to time
as your career's proceeded?
Do you feel like you've been treated fairly
with what you've done as a trial lawyer?
Well, some of the time.
Certainly not all of the time, and I think
anyone who hopes to be a mainstream defense
lawyer working the big cases and irritating
government, that's what we do all day long,
day in and day out, can expect to get shot
at.
Once in a while, you're going to get hit.
I realized that at a very young age and it
has remained consistent throughout my career
at least and my association with the law,
so the guys who have the authority, the prosecutors,
will look for any means there is to try to
bring down a defense lawyer.
You know, I look at the Patty Hearst case,
you actually created new defense ideas in
that case that are still taught in law school
today.
What is your memory about how you had to get
it defending that case?
What was the heart of what you had to do there?
Well, let me say at the outset, the Patty
Hearst case was clearly the worst case I have
ever been asked to handle since I began to
practice law.
First of all, the public did not know what
the real engine was driving the Hearst case,
and that was first degree murder, a terrible
crime, up in Sacramento, California, where
she had been driving the getaway car, something
I could never mention except to the FBI when
we got her immunity because it was confidential
until she wrote a book describing in detail
what she did.
The Hearst case involved so many different
crimes: a shoot up with a machine gun in Los
Angeles, robbing two banks, one of which involved
a fatality, blowing up police cars, planting
bombs at police stations.
We had to thread our way through the defense
of that case.
Well, Lee, let me ask you something.
I got to close, but I want to say this.
If I look at most of your cases, they were
all that difficult, and you pulled through
because of your innovation and your just sheer
tenacity.
I want to thank you for being out there and
making the criminal law process a little bit
better.
Thanks for joining me, Lee.
Okay?
