17:30:03:03 ��
17:30:03:12 ��
17:30:03:21
17:30:12:27 >>> Coming up next on "Arizona
17:30:12:27 Horizon," state superintendent
17:30:12:27 of public instruction John
17:30:12:27 Huppenthal will join us to
17:30:12:27 discuss his controversial web
17:30:12:27 postings.
17:30:22:03 >>> And find out what the
17:30:22:03 Export-import Bank is and why
17:30:22:03 businesses are worried about
17:30:22:03 its possible demise.
17:30:03:18 Those stories next, on "Arizona
17:30:03:18 Horizon."
17:30:32:15 >>> "Arizona Horizon" is made
17:30:33:06 possible by contributions from
17:30:34:15 the friends of eight, members
17:30:35:24 of your Arizona PBS station.
17:30:37:06 Thank you.
17:30:38:00
17:30:40:12 >>> Good evening and welcome to
17:30:40:12 "Arizona Horizon."
17:30:43:06 I�m Ted Simons.
17:30:44:09 It was one year ago today that
17:30:44:09 tragedy struck Arizona.
17:30:47:24 19 firefighters from the
17:30:47:24 granite mountain hotshot crew
17:30:47:24 lost their lives in the Yarnell
17:30:47:24 Hill fire.
17:30:37:21 ASU regents professor Stephen
17:30:37:21 Pyne, who has written numerous
17:30:37:21 books on wildfires and wildland
17:30:37:21 management, talks about the
17:30:37:21 severity of the Yarnell Hill
17:30:37:21 fire.
17:31:02:03 >> There are different measures
17:31:03:03 of severity and for most
17:31:04:24 people, the severity will be
17:31:06:00 measured in lives lost or
17:31:07:03 property lost and this is
17:31:08:09 pretty close to the top.
17:31:10:27 Followed probably by the dude
17:31:13:24 creek hire of 1990.
17:31:15:18 We've had large fires but they
17:31:17:21 haven't necessarily caused
17:31:19:24 fatalities or lots of property
17:31:22:03 damage.
17:31:24:15 The fire didn't introduce
17:31:26:12 anything new to fire behavior
17:31:28:15 that the fire community hasn't
17:31:30:15 known for a long time.
17:31:32:00 Steep terrain, dense brush,
17:31:35:12 drought, maximum temperatures,
17:31:38:09 winds, and then thunderstorm
17:31:41:09 down drafts, dry downdrafts on
17:31:44:03 top of that.
17:31:44:27 Boy, this was all textbook fire
17:31:47:21 behavior and all those compass
17:31:50:15 points were all aligned in the
17:31:53:03 same correction -- direction
17:31:56:09 towards maximum fire intensity.
17:31:58:21 >> A memorial ceremony was held
17:32:00:12 in Prescott.
17:32:06:06 A bell in courthouse square
17:32:06:06 rang 19 times in honor of those
17:32:06:06 who lost their lives.
17:32:08:00 >>> Arizona superintendent of
17:32:08:00 public instruction John
17:32:08:00 Huppenthal is under fire for
17:32:08:00 posting controversial and
17:32:08:00 anonymous online statements
17:32:08:00 that many Arizonans found
17:32:08:00 offensive.
17:32:16:12 John Huppenthal joins us now on
17:32:16:12 "Arizona Horizon."
17:32:19:06 And we thank you for joining
17:32:20:09 us.
17:32:22:12 >> It's always great to be with
17:32:24:06 you.
17:32:25:00 >> It can't be easy but we're
17:32:26:12 going to try to figure out.
17:32:28:09 Why did you feel the need to
17:32:30:24 make the online postings that
17:32:32:03 you made?
17:32:32:27 >> Ted, I shouldn't have.
17:32:34:03 It was a mistake.
17:32:36:09 And I let my family down, I let
17:32:39:09 my team at the department of
17:32:40:21 education down and most of all
17:32:42:27 I let the citizens of Arizona
17:32:44:12 down so it was a mistake.
17:32:45:21 I shouldn't have done it.
17:32:46:21 And I've apologized for it.
17:32:49:06 But the important thing is
17:32:50:15 we've got a job to do and we're
17:32:52:00 working on that job.
17:32:53:18 My team is working on that job,
17:32:55:03 often in a spectacular fashion.
17:32:57:15 Let me give you one example.
17:32:58:18 We have a program in Arizona,
17:33:00:00 English for all students, it's
17:33:01:21 structured English immersion.
17:33:03:15 We reclassify, we moved over
17:33:06:06 90% of our students into our
17:33:07:27 regular classes with skills in
17:33:10:03 reading, speaking and writing
17:33:12:12 English.
17:33:13:15 It is one of the more
17:33:14:21 spectacular education success
17:33:16:03 stories across the nation.
17:33:18:09 >> You have this education
17:33:19:18 success story.
17:33:20:15 And yet, no one wants to hear
17:33:22:27 about it.
17:33:23:09 They want to know why, they
17:33:24:12 want some answers.
17:33:25:21 They want you to explain
17:33:27:00 yourself as to why you made the
17:33:28:12 postings and why you did it
17:33:30:15 anonymously.
17:33:31:06 >> Well, ted, it was a mistake.
17:33:33:09 I shouldn't have done it.
17:33:34:27 And I apologized for it.
17:33:37:18 You know, I let my family down.
17:33:40:09 These writings didn't reflect
17:33:42:27 most of all my actions as
17:33:44:09 superintendent.
17:33:45:00 Let me give you another
17:33:45:24 example.
17:33:46:21 We have a program called move
17:33:48:00 on when reading that requires
17:33:50:06 that students have basic
17:33:51:15 reading skills by the end of
17:33:53:03 3rd grade.
17:33:53:27 Three years ago, we had
17:33:55:21 4,400 students that failed that
17:33:58:06 classification.
17:33:59:15 It is another one of these
17:34:00:27 spectacular success stories.
17:34:02:03 We moved that down to
17:34:03:21 2,200 students that are at risk
17:34:06:06 now.
17:34:06:21 It's a huge success story.
17:34:08:27 It's been a partnership that
17:34:09:27 we've had with governor brewer,
17:34:11:18 with the state board of
17:34:13:03 education and we've done a
17:34:14:27 phenomenal job partnering with
17:34:16:06 the school district.
17:34:17:12 Some of the school districts,
17:34:18:24 over 90% of their students,
17:34:21:03 they've rescued them as a
17:34:22:18 result of this program.
17:34:23:15 >> I think some of those school
17:34:24:09 districts, some of those
17:34:25:18 educators, some of the
17:34:26:06 students, some of the parents,
17:34:27:06 some of the teachers, they
17:34:28:27 still want to know why.
17:34:31:18 I understand that you have said
17:34:33:00 it was a mistake and you have
17:34:34:18 apologized for this but people
17:34:37:12 want to know why.
17:34:39:00 What made you sit there in
17:34:40:00 front of your computer and
17:34:42:15 engage in these kinds of
17:34:43:18 debates and do it anonymously?
17:34:45:21 >> Ted, I have a passion for
17:34:48:21 public policy.
17:34:50:21 It drives me and everything
17:34:51:27 that I do.
17:34:53:27 And it's a passion to serve the
17:34:56:12 community.
17:34:57:06 And to do it with a great deal
17:34:59:18 of knowledge.
17:35:00:27 My blog comments, they were
17:35:02:18 offensive, they were hurtful,
17:35:04:00 I've repudiated them.
17:35:08:18 The -- the -- when I go home at
17:35:10:21 night, I study every single
17:35:12:06 night, I go and I read, I have
17:35:15:12 over 600 books on my kindle, I
17:35:17:27 have four kindles, I fluctuate
17:35:21:06 between all these.
17:35:22:15 We expect leaders to have a
17:35:23:18 profound knowledge.
17:35:24:18 My blog comments -- the blog
17:35:28:00 comments that people have read
17:35:29:18 don't reflect that profound
17:35:31:03 knowledge and I feel deeply
17:35:34:12 apologetic for those blog
17:35:36:12 comments.
17:35:37:00 But they absolutely were a
17:35:38:12 mistake.
17:35:39:06 Let's go back to what we've
17:35:40:15 done.
17:35:41:09 These things that we've done as
17:35:42:18 a department have been
17:35:43:24 phenomenal.
17:35:44:06 Just last week, I met with the
17:35:47:06 superintendent of a small
17:35:48:03 school district and he was
17:35:49:03 telling me.
17:35:49:24 He was just euphoric.
17:35:52:06 The previous year it had taken
17:35:53:18 him 40 days to do a report and
17:35:56:27 with the work we've done at
17:35:58:00 reducing administrative costs,
17:36:00:03 it only took him four and a
17:36:01:09 half hours.
17:36:02:18 We're now $300 per student
17:36:04:24 below the national average in
17:36:06:00 administrative costs.
17:36:06:27 That's $330 million that have
17:36:08:24 been freed and up reduced
17:36:11:03 administrative costs.
17:36:12:09 We have been a part of driving
17:36:13:24 that as a park department,
17:36:15:00 stripping out all the
17:36:16:09 bureaucracy and paperwork.
17:36:17:15 >> You mentioned that you were
17:36:18:27 apologetic for these postings
17:36:20:27 and your original response did
17:36:22:03 not sound apologetic.
17:36:23:27 A former superintendent of
17:36:25:00 public instruction says when
17:36:27:00 she first contacted you, you
17:36:28:09 were not apologetic and you
17:36:31:21 stood by what you said.
17:36:34:15 What changed?
17:36:35:15 >> I don't want to characterize
17:36:36:27 my conversation with somebody
17:36:38:12 else.
17:36:39:27 I absolutely -- my blog
17:36:43:18 comments were a mistake.
17:36:44:27 I have repudiated them.
17:36:46:21 They were hurtful to my family.
17:36:48:12 They were especially hurtful to
17:36:50:21 my team at the department of
17:36:52:06 education.
17:36:52:18 But we have a job to do.
17:36:54:00 And we are moving forward with
17:36:56:00 that job.
17:36:56:27 Let me give you another
17:36:57:21 example.
17:36:59:09 We through our nutrition
17:37:00:18 department, we have partnered
17:37:02:06 with the spiritual leaders in
17:37:04:21 neighborhoods that are high in
17:37:07:06 poverty to be able to deliver
17:37:09:09 summer food programs.
17:37:10:24 The spiritual leaders I've
17:37:11:27 talked to are ecstatic about
17:37:13:18 that program.
17:37:14:12 It's a huge breakthrough.
17:37:16:03 They never felt like they were
17:37:17:03 a part of that whole process in
17:37:18:12 the past and with them being
17:37:20:27 able to be part of the
17:37:22:18 delivery.
17:37:23:00 These are the actions that I've
17:37:24:00 taken as superintendent.
17:37:25:12 The move on reading program,
17:37:26:24 the partnership with governor
17:37:27:21 brewer there, the whole variety
17:37:32:15 of these nutrition programs.
17:37:34:24 >> And again, how do you think
17:37:36:18 those people feel when they
17:37:38:00 read you describing people on
17:37:40:15 assistance as lazy pigs getting
17:37:43:00 air conditioning, free
17:37:44:09 healthcare, flat screen TVs
17:37:47:21 which you said are typical of
17:37:49:03 poor people.
17:37:49:27 How do you think they feel?
17:37:52:24 >> That blog comment was
17:37:55:03 offensive.
17:37:55:21 It was hurtful.
17:37:56:21 I've repudiated it.
17:37:59:00 I've apologized for it.
17:38:00:18 >> But what made you say it in
17:38:01:27 the first place?
17:38:02:12 People want to know.
17:38:03:18 They understand that you're
17:38:04:15 apologetic but what made you
17:38:06:06 say it in the first place?
17:38:07:03 >> I have a deep passion for
17:38:09:15 coming from my disadvantaged
17:38:11:18 background myself, I have a
17:38:12:27 deep passion for moving people
17:38:16:06 out of poverty and off of
17:38:17:12 welfare.
17:38:17:27 When you look at the data on
17:38:19:18 welfare, it is shocking.
17:38:22:27 A child who grows up in a
17:38:24:27 welfare environment by the age
17:38:27:00 of three, they have heard
17:38:29:27 30 million fewer words than
17:38:31:06 their comparable compatriots.
17:38:33:27 That deep passion I have for
17:38:36:09 acting and which I've acted
17:38:38:09 continuously to try to provide
17:38:40:21 opportunity every way we can in
17:38:42:06 Arizona.
17:38:42:15 >> And yet you've just made an
17:38:43:27 argument for what you believe.
17:38:45:27 I didn't hear lazy pigs in that
17:38:47:24 statement.
17:38:48:03 What made you think -- what
17:38:49:18 made you think you could say
17:38:50:27 these things about these
17:38:52:09 people, anonymously, and no one
17:38:54:18 would ever find out?
17:38:56:06 >> Those comments don't reflect
17:38:59:09 the way I think.
17:39:00:12 They don't reflect what's in my
17:39:02:03 heart.
17:39:02:18 And they especially don't
17:39:03:27 reflect the actions that I've
17:39:05:00 taken as superintendent.
17:39:06:03 >> You mentioned -- please go
17:39:08:15 ahead.
17:39:09:03 >> We've worked and we work
17:39:10:06 hard at our agency and, you
17:39:12:03 know, when we talked about the
17:39:14:09 people that were in there, it's
17:39:15:27 common for me to leave the
17:39:17:27 department at 7:00 or 8:00 at
17:39:19:21 night and to walk by office
17:39:21:06 after office, there are people
17:39:22:15 still there working on the
17:39:24:00 mission.
17:39:24:21 So especially I let them down.
17:39:28:09 But, you know, the work goes
17:39:29:12 on.
17:39:29:24 We're doing amazing things in
17:39:30:27 that agency.
17:39:32:09 >> Did you post any of these
17:39:34:03 online comments from your
17:39:35:03 office?
17:39:36:03 >> There were a couple
17:39:37:21 evidently that were posted from
17:39:38:24 the office.
17:39:39:15 >> Appropriate to do that, do
17:39:40:18 you think?
17:39:41:12 >> I'm a superintendent of
17:39:42:06 public instruction, 24 hours a
17:39:43:27 day, seven days a week.
17:39:47:24 The -- the comments that I
17:39:50:09 posted typically were highly
17:39:52:00 factual comments, things like
17:39:54:24 letting people know that over
17:39:56:12 the last several years,
17:39:58:12 automobile thefts have gone
17:39:59:09 from 48,000 down to 18,000.
17:40:02:18 So the question is as we ponder
17:40:05:24 data like that, we discuss it
17:40:07:09 in various forums, why?
17:40:09:18 Why has this huge reduction in
17:40:12:12 automobile theft?
17:40:13:09 >> Do you think it's because of
17:40:14:06 Russell pearce's immigration
17:40:17:27 ideas?
17:40:18:09 >> My hypothesis is, I'm very
17:40:21:27 interested in the role of
17:40:22:21 education.
17:40:23:12 Who steals cars?
17:40:24:27 It's young people that steal
17:40:26:09 cars.
17:40:28:15 People who are still in school
17:40:30:24 or people who are just out of
17:40:31:24 school.
17:40:32:03 I regard that as something
17:40:33:27 that's enormously fascinating.
17:40:36:27 What is -- why have we
17:40:39:03 experienced an unbelievable
17:40:41:00 32,000 reduction in automobile
17:40:43:27 thefts?
17:40:44:27 >> It sounds like --
17:40:45:03 >> These are the kinds of
17:40:45:27 discussions --
17:40:46:21 >> Right.
17:40:47:03 >> These are things that are
17:40:48:27 typical of the way I think.
17:40:49:27 >> But it sounds like you
17:40:50:27 already had it figured out when
17:40:53:03 you said we have a lot fewer
17:40:54:21 Caucasians working now that the
17:40:56:09 Hispanics have left but crime
17:40:58:00 is much lower, no money and no
17:40:59:15 one is stealing it.
17:41:00:27 What do you mean about that?
17:41:03:06 >> See my blog comments were
17:41:05:00 offensive.
17:41:06:18 Those comments -- I apologized
17:41:09:00 for those, they were deeply
17:41:10:15 hurtful.
17:41:11:06 The thing that I have always
17:41:13:15 had a concern about was when we
17:41:15:21 were dealing with all of these
17:41:18:15 issues that we be very
17:41:21:24 knowledgeable and so in this
17:41:23:09 particular case, my fellow
17:41:26:27 conservatives have made the
17:41:27:21 case that there is a reduction
17:41:29:09 in employment that's associated
17:41:32:06 with immigration.
17:41:33:00 And what I was pointing out
17:41:34:06 there is look at Texas.
17:41:35:24 Texas took a different path
17:41:37:06 than Arizona and they have
17:41:38:15 taken different employment path
17:41:40:12 for native Texans and we see
17:41:43:06 the same thing in Arizona.
17:41:44:09 >> So you're not completely
17:41:45:03 repudiating that statement?
17:41:48:03 >> The -- the -- that statement
17:41:50:27 there was offensive in how it
17:41:52:21 was worded.
17:41:53:12 And it was hurtful.
17:41:55:15 I am repudiating that statement
17:41:57:00 and I'm apologizing for it.
17:42:00:00 >> Another one is --
17:42:04:06 [ reading ]
17:42:05:15 The assumption there being that
17:42:08:12 the immigrants were engaging in
17:42:10:12 crime.
17:42:10:21 We need to stomp out
17:42:13:27 Balkanization, no Spanish radio
17:42:16:09 stations, no Spanish
17:42:17:12 newspapers, this is America,
17:42:19:06 speak English.
17:42:20:00 What did you mean by that?
17:42:22:09 >> Well, that comment was
17:42:24:21 offensive, it was hurtful.
17:42:26:06 And frankly, ted it's
17:42:27:21 ridiculous.
17:42:31:12 I just -- I just have a deep
17:42:33:03 passion for an understanding,
17:42:35:06 particularly in growing up on
17:42:36:21 the south side of Tucson that
17:42:38:21 English is the language of
17:42:40:03 opportunity and that we have a
17:42:41:21 moral obligation to pass this
17:42:44:24 onto all of the students,
17:42:46:06 English language learners.
17:42:47:18 I am so proud of the fact that
17:42:49:06 we are moving 90% of these
17:42:50:27 students into our regular
17:42:52:00 classrooms with skills in
17:42:53:27 reading, writing and speaking.
17:42:58:15 Those are the things that I
17:42:59:09 have passion for.
17:43:00:15 >> Did the fact that your
17:43:01:15 comments -- we got you.
17:43:03:00 >> I reject those.
17:43:03:27 >> Did the fact that you were
17:43:04:27 posting anonymously, did that
17:43:07:06 make you say things that you
17:43:08:12 wouldn't ordinarily say?
17:43:10:03 Would you stand in front of a
17:43:11:06 group of educators and say mas,
17:43:14:03 Mexican American studies equals
17:43:16:03 kkk?
17:43:17:03 >> Now, you know, there were a
17:43:20:27 number of those blog
17:43:21:27 comments -- they were
17:43:24:21 offensive, they were hurtful.
17:43:26:09 I've apologized for them.
17:43:27:21 But again, actions are what
17:43:31:00 count in the end in what we do
17:43:33:00 in society.
17:43:34:03 What we have done is we have
17:43:35:15 worked ourself to the point of
17:43:36:27 exhaustion and successfully to
17:43:38:15 make opportunity for students
17:43:41:24 who come from poverty homes,
17:43:43:06 poverty neighborhoods, students
17:43:44:12 of challenge, and we have a
17:43:46:09 whole string of accomplishments
17:43:48:15 and we can talk about how we
17:43:49:27 have taken a posture of being
17:43:52:03 servants to these homes and to
17:43:53:21 these families.
17:43:54:15 >> And yet why should a Latino
17:43:56:00 kid from a poor family trust
17:43:58:18 you?
17:43:59:12 As education chief?
17:44:00:27 Why should a Latino educator,
17:44:03:06 Latino families, especially
17:44:04:21 those from low-income areas,
17:44:06:27 why should they trust you,
17:44:08:15 regardless of what you've done
17:44:09:18 or what you want to do, when
17:44:11:15 they know, they think they know
17:44:12:27 and most folks would assume
17:44:14:18 that this is somewhere in your
17:44:15:24 heart, when they read this
17:44:17:15 stuff, why should educators in
17:44:19:18 general trust you?
17:44:20:27 >> Well, ted, those comments
17:44:23:06 are nowhere in my heart.
17:44:24:24 And let me -- in terms of the
17:44:26:21 trust issue, this last week, I
17:44:29:18 went down to Tucson, went down
17:44:31:24 to high minority, high-poverty
17:44:35:06 schools, where I have a math
17:44:36:27 project going and I thought wow
17:44:38:18 this might be a little prickly
17:44:39:27 and I walked in there and there
17:44:41:06 were a lot of teachers there
17:44:42:09 and they came over to me and
17:44:44:00 they asked me about it and I
17:44:45:12 apologized for it and we had an
17:44:48:12 incredible day as these
17:44:50:00 students did over 500 math
17:44:51:27 problems each.
17:44:52:21 The bottom line, they should
17:44:54:06 trust me because we are getting
17:44:55:24 things done for them.
17:44:57:00 We are moving programs forward
17:44:58:27 to support them.
17:45:00:06 We are moving the students up
17:45:02:24 academically, our academic
17:45:04:03 results have been moving
17:45:05:15 steadily.
17:45:06:00 We're allowing them to achieve
17:45:07:18 reading skills, we're opening
17:45:08:21 up the doors of economic
17:45:10:06 opportunity.
17:45:10:18 >> And yet they see you, when
17:45:12:27 you thought you were anonymous,
17:45:14:03 when no one was going to find
17:45:15:03 out who was saying this, saying
17:45:16:15 this kind of stuff.
17:45:18:15 I mean, again it sounds like --
17:45:21:18 all right.
17:45:22:06 Are you going to resign or are
17:45:23:27 you going to stay in office?
17:45:25:09 >> Ted, absolutely I am staying
17:45:27:03 in office.
17:45:29:00 There is -- we have a job to
17:45:30:15 do.
17:45:31:03 And we are doing that job every
17:45:32:27 single day and we are
17:45:34:00 accomplishing it often in a
17:45:35:24 spectacular fashion.
17:45:36:24 >> Are you going to stick --
17:45:38:21 >> I talked about move on in
17:45:41:03 reading.
17:45:41:12 >> Yes, you have.
17:45:42:00 >> I talked about our nutrition
17:45:43:18 programs, across the board,
17:45:45:00 when you go out and talk to
17:45:46:00 people out in the community, I
17:45:47:06 mean I had the conversation
17:45:49:06 with that superintendent who
17:45:50:15 talked about who talked about
17:45:52:03 the massive reduction in
17:45:53:15 paperwork, that's freeing up
17:45:55:00 $300 million available for the
17:45:56:06 classroom.
17:45:56:18 We're going to free up another
17:45:58:03 $100 million just with the
17:45:59:21 reduction in paperwork.
17:46:00:27 >> Are you going to run for
17:46:01:18 re-election?
17:46:03:12 >> Absolutely, ted, I'm
17:46:05:03 continuing to run for
17:46:05:27 re-election.
17:46:06:18 >> Have you been treated fairly
17:46:08:27 in all this?
17:46:09:24 >> Ted, when you overstep your
17:46:14:18 bounds like this, you have no
17:46:16:03 right to be treated fairly.
17:46:18:00 I made a serious mistake.
17:46:20:15 I shouldn't have done it.
17:46:21:21 I apologized for it.
17:46:24:21 I'll let other people speak to
17:46:26:18 that issue as to whether I've
17:46:28:21 been treated fairly.
17:46:31:06 >> What do you think?
17:46:31:24 >> You know, I've been in this
17:46:32:18 business for 30 years.
17:46:33:21 I've taken a lot of criticism
17:46:35:09 over time.
17:46:36:21 I view it as part of the
17:46:38:27 territory.
17:46:39:24 What's given me great pleasure
17:46:41:12 over time is the work that I
17:46:42:15 do, being able to reduce the
17:46:44:24 cost of government so we reduce
17:46:46:18 taxes but also make government
17:46:48:00 more effective so we get the
17:46:49:09 great things government does
17:46:50:24 done.
17:46:51:12 We can still get those done.
17:46:52:27 >> What have you learned from
17:46:53:21 all this?
17:46:55:15 >> The lessons learned is that
17:46:57:27 you're on the front page with
17:46:59:06 every single comment you make
17:47:02:12 and you have an obligation in
17:47:03:21 this office to uphold a certain
17:47:06:18 standard of honor for students,
17:47:09:12 for teachers and for parents
17:47:10:27 and when you fall short of
17:47:12:00 that, you're going to be held
17:47:13:21 accountable in some pretty
17:47:16:00 serious and severe ways.
17:47:17:00 >> And you think you're being
17:47:18:09 held accountable in a fair
17:47:19:09 fashion?
17:47:19:24 >> You know I'll let other
17:47:20:27 people speak to that.
17:47:22:27 I accept the criticism, I've
17:47:25:18 thought deeply about it, have
17:47:27:24 had a lot of discussions.
17:47:29:06 My daughter called me up in
17:47:30:21 tears talking to me about it.
17:47:33:27 I've done, you know -- it's
17:47:35:09 been pretty hurtful.
17:47:37:06 You know, people who work 12,
17:47:40:00 13 hour days for you, believe
17:47:43:09 in the mission, when you let
17:47:44:15 them down but now, we're
17:47:46:12 continuing on with the job.
17:47:47:00 We have a lot of people that
17:47:48:09 we're serving and we're doing
17:47:49:21 great work and we're going to
17:47:51:00 keep doing that great work.
17:47:52:18 >> Superintendent Huppenthal we
17:47:54:03 thank you so much for joining
17:47:54:21 us tonight on "Arizona
17:47:55:21 Horizon."
17:47:56:06 >> Thank you, ted.
17:47:57:00 ��
17:47:58:18 ��
17:47:59:00 ��
17:48:51:12 ��
17:48:51:24
17:49:03:09 >>> The Export-Import Bank of
17:49:03:09 the United States is designed
17:49:03:09 to boost U.S. Business
17:49:03:09 interests overseas.
17:49:08:03 But the bank�s charter expires
17:49:08:03 at the end of September, and
17:49:08:03 business groups are concerned
17:49:08:03 that Congress will refuse to
17:49:08:03 reauthorize the agency.
17:49:13:21 Dennis Hoffman is director of
17:49:13:21 the Seidman Research Institute
17:49:13:21 at ASU�s W.P. Carey School of
17:49:13:21 Business.
17:49:18:27 He�s here to talk about what
17:49:18:27 the bank does and its impact on
17:49:18:27 the economy.
17:48:51:21 What does this bank do?
17:49:24:00 >> Well, first ted, this is
17:49:25:18 great.
17:49:26:00 This is, you know, the fight du
17:49:29:24 jour.
17:49:30:27 At least it's not the debt
17:49:32:09 ceiling this time.
17:49:33:15 This is an important issue to
17:49:34:21 some businesses, but whether or
17:49:37:03 not this bank stays or goes is
17:49:39:24 a far different issue than some
17:49:41:06 of the recent debates we've
17:49:43:12 had.
17:49:44:00 You know, on the side of
17:49:47:06 getting rid of this bank.
17:49:48:18 Let me back up.
17:49:50:15 The bank really is designed to
17:49:54:06 provide credit for these
17:49:56:18 export-based transactions that
17:49:59:03 take place.
17:50:02:03 Trade depends on credit.
17:50:03:06 98% of this credit comes from
17:50:04:18 the private sector.
17:50:05:24 Only 2% comes from this bank.
17:50:09:24 But yet it remains
17:50:11:27 controversial.
17:50:12:18 Most folks want to get rid of
17:50:13:27 it and they range from Ralph
17:50:16:27 nader to the Tea Party, by the
17:50:19:09 way.
17:50:19:21 There's a strange union.
17:50:21:15 They want to get rid of this
17:50:23:00 because they don't support big
17:50:24:24 businesses, they see that this
17:50:27:06 bank supports two primary
17:50:29:06 businesses in the U.S. and
17:50:30:21 that's caterpillar and Boeing,
17:50:33:06 although there's a vast array
17:50:34:18 of smaller businesses that also
17:50:35:27 are supported.
17:50:38:09 >> Correct me if I'm wrong,
17:50:38:15 here but looking into this it
17:50:39:27 sounds like it subsidizes
17:50:41:27 already subsidized foreign
17:50:43:27 government buyers, is that
17:50:46:15 remotely in the ballpark?
17:50:49:03 >> Possibly, possibly, you
17:50:49:27 could think of it that way.
17:50:51:06 So therefore, it's redundant,
17:50:53:09 you know.
17:50:54:03 Get rid of a little bit of g,
17:50:55:15 that means a little less
17:50:56:18 government, taxes can go down,
17:50:59:03 yadda, yadda, yadda.
17:51:03:00 The challenge with that
17:51:04:03 particular argument and that's
17:51:06:03 what's advanced by those who
17:51:07:12 want to get rid of it, this is
17:51:08:18 a competitive environment.
17:51:09:27 And you will be ceding some
17:51:14:09 jobs to foreign governments
17:51:15:18 that don't get rid of their
17:51:17:06 export financing subsidies and
17:51:19:03 that would be places like
17:51:20:03 Japan, Korea, you know, to some
17:51:24:18 degree Europe does this,
17:51:25:27 although Europe and the U.S.
17:51:27:06 have this mutual agreement
17:51:29:09 around airlines in terms of
17:51:31:18 their domestic markets.
17:51:33:21 But nonetheless, there will be
17:51:35:27 some job loss here in the U.S.
17:51:40:06 if Boeing and caterpillar don't
17:51:42:24 get this break.
17:51:45:06 >> Have we seen job losses just
17:51:47:00 because of the debate regarding
17:51:48:12 reauthorization?
17:51:49:15 >> Well, probably not.
17:51:51:18 I don't think -- you know, I
17:51:53:03 don't think it's reached that
17:51:54:03 level and I think that markets
17:51:56:21 will find a way.
17:51:57:24 So if caterpillar and Boeing
17:52:00:06 lose this subsidy, they're
17:52:01:18 going to have to take it out of
17:52:02:18 their employees, they're going
17:52:05:00 to have to take it out of their
17:52:06:12 returns to their shareholders
17:52:08:09 or they're going to have to
17:52:09:12 find some alternative means of
17:52:11:00 financing.
17:52:11:12 >> I've heard it called
17:52:12:18 cronyism.
17:52:14:06 And I've also heard it cronyism
17:52:16:24 and really not all that
17:52:17:27 effective.
17:52:18:27 Valid?
17:52:19:18 >> Well, you know, they're
17:52:22:24 everywhere and people have to
17:52:23:21 understand this.
17:52:24:06 I'm told that Texas has the
17:52:26:27 best tax structure and that's
17:52:29:09 why all businesses move to
17:52:30:15 Texas.
17:52:31:00 Well, they also have the
17:52:32:12 biggest incentive fund.
17:52:34:09 It's $20 billion.
17:52:36:24 Texas' incentive fund annually
17:52:39:12 is almost as big as the entire
17:52:41:15 U.S. Export-Import Bank.
17:52:44:09 So, you know, these are --
17:52:46:00 these are big deals, incentives
17:52:49:21 are at play and we would like
17:52:51:24 to say in a perfect world we
17:52:53:00 could get rid of crony
17:52:54:24 capitalism but it's a tougher
17:52:57:12 game to play if you're the
17:52:58:27 first one to get rid of it.
17:53:00:24 >> With that in mind, we talked
17:53:01:18 about what the critics say.
17:53:04:24 Supporters, including President
17:53:06:00 Obama, he wants to extend it
17:53:09:00 five years and increase the
17:53:10:00 amount the bank can lend.
17:53:11:12 What would be the impact of
17:53:12:00 that?
17:53:12:21 >> Well, if it's used
17:53:14:06 strategically to promote
17:53:16:18 exports in this country and, by
17:53:17:27 the way, we have not done that
17:53:19:27 aggressively like other
17:53:20:24 countries have.
17:53:22:15 It could be job-growing.
17:53:24:15 It could be economy-enhancing
17:53:26:18 but you do have to figure out
17:53:29:09 optimal ways of doing it.
17:53:30:21 I'm hearing, you know,
17:53:32:15 arguments around picking
17:53:33:21 certain industries.
17:53:34:21 Well, we want to only support
17:53:36:12 small businesses.
17:53:37:12 Well, we only want to support
17:53:39:21 those businesses that are
17:53:41:12 friendly to the environment.
17:53:43:09 You know, now you've got even
a
17:53:45:24 second level of government
17:53:46:24 intervention here.
17:53:49:00 You know, to me a job is a job.
17:53:51:03 If it's a job at a begin
17:53:52:15 business or if it's a job at a
17:53:54:06 small business.
17:53:55:12 You know, Boeing obviously is
17:53:57:15 very important in this state,
17:53:59:12 although not a division that
17:54:01:15 relies that much on the
17:54:03:00 Export-Import Bank.
17:54:04:06 But big businesses are
17:54:06:06 important to the labor market
17:54:09:00 picture Tucson without -- big
17:54:12:24 businesses are very important.
17:54:14:18 >> So we've gotten one side
17:54:16:06 saying kill it, the other side
17:54:18:00 saying extend it, give it more
17:54:19:27 money to work with.
17:54:21:12 Are there reforms somewhere in
17:54:23:00 the middle that could make it
17:54:24:00 at least better?
17:54:25:09 >> There could be compromises
17:54:26:18 that you would want to look at
17:54:28:21 this and make sure that there's
17:54:29:21 not, you know, dirty dealing
17:54:33:27 here somewhere or, you know,
17:54:36:24 people are getting undue
17:54:38:09 benefits, that there is
17:54:40:24 definitely a need.
17:54:41:18 I think you can get into the
17:54:42:21 data with caterpillar, for
17:54:47:15 example.
17:54:47:27 If caterpillar doesn't get this
17:54:50:03 deal on selling goods to China,
17:54:53:06 will Korea be able to compete?
17:54:55:24 It seems to me that's an
17:54:57:15 empirical question, we could
17:54:59:15 investigate it and come to a
17:55:01:03 conclusion.
17:55:01:18 >> September 30th is that
17:55:03:03 date that you think it's going
17:55:03:27 to be extended?
17:55:05:03 >> I don't know at this point,
17:55:06:12 you know.
17:55:07:03 I think the Tea Party may be
17:55:08:27 looking for a victory and this
17:55:11:03 could be a place where they
17:55:14:00 choose to go.
17:55:14:18 >> Dennis good to have you
17:55:15:15 here.
17:55:17:27 >>> Tomorrow on "Arizona
17:55:17:27 Horizon," join us for another
17:55:17:27 clean elections debate, this
17:55:17:27 time between Republican
17:55:17:27 candidates running for
17:55:17:27 secretary of state.
17:55:24:18 A debate Tuesday evening at
17:55:24:18 5:30 and 10:00, on "Arizona
17:55:24:18 Horizon."
17:55:29:21 That is it for now.
17:55:30:18 I'm Ted Simons.
17:55:31:15 Thank you so much for joining
17:55:32:00 us.
17:55:33:12 You have a great evening.
17:55:40:09 ��
17:55:40:18 ��
17:55:41:00 >>> "Arizona Horizon" is made
17:55:54:06 possible by contributions from
17:55:55:27 the friends of eight, members
17:55:57:03 of your Arizona PBS station.
17:55:59:15 Thank you.
17:56:00:03 >>> When you want to be more
17:56:05:21 informed, eight delivers news
17:56:13:18 >>> More than 90% of the time,
17:56:15:15 hospice care is delivered in
17:56:29:24 >>> Robert's catering,
17:56:31:00 providing catering, wedding
17:56:43:09 all your catering needs.
17:56:45:09 >>> Later on eight H.D.
17:57:08:24 >>> Eight H.D., eight life, and
17:57:11:21 eight world.
17:57:25:21 would like to give every month.
17:57:27:18 $5, $10, a level that works for
17:57:36:18 bottom of your check.
17:57:37:24 If you prefer to give my credit
17:57:49:00 again and remember to ask for
17:57:50:09 one of our special thank you
17:58:08:06 It's just so rewarding.
17:58:09:24 You've got to make it exciting,
17:58:14:27 lightbulbs start turning on in
17:58:16:15 the room, they go I get it, I
17:58:24:06 and get college credit.
17:58:25:21 I learned a lot of strategies
17:58:37:06 supports educators and how you
17:58:38:00 can get involved at
17:58:53:09 >> This body goes back to the
17:58:54:21 early bronze age.
17:59:05:27 eight H.D.
17:59:07:09 >>> When you want to be more
17:59:21:03 features military aircraft with
17:59:22:15 related exhibits, and facility
17:59:40:00 values of automobiles, jewelry,
17:59:42:00 arts, collectibles and
17:59:52:18 Over 200 acres of Arizona-grown
17:59:54:12 trees citrus and palm.
17:59:58:06 Nursery still does the digging.
