We're good?
Yeah man, so tell me -- so, I'm like -- I'm -- I've been living under
a rock for many many many years, but
Yeah
But stream chat is telling me that you're
the guy. You're Reckful Gladiator, right?
Yeah
That's you, yeah. So I'm -- I guess that
makes me a fan, but from like a decade
ago.
Yeah, that's most of my viewership.
They're a fan from a decade ago.
That's interesting.
So, tell me, what are we talking about today buddy?
Um well I
And what, am I -- am I calling you
Reckful?
You can call me Byron if you want.
(What do you prefer?) But yeah I've dealt with depression my whole life pretty much.
I mean,  so I was like 14 (Okay), and I'm 30 now.
(Okay) And a bunch of people in my chat
were telling me I should call you, (Okay)
so here I am! (Okay) It's actually starting
to get better just recently (Uh-huh) cuz I'm like
working on a project with some friends
and it gives me a sense of purpose I
guess. (Okay) But uh, (What-- ) yeah go ahead.
What's the project? By the way, so a couple of
ground rules: So I'm a psychiatrist, but I
can't treat your depression over the internet
(Yeah, gotcha) unfortunately, and then the other
thing is I tend to ask a lot of
questions. If there's anything that you
don't feel comfortable answering, just
don't answer it and just let me know.
Okay um and yeah, 'I need to turn your
volume up' they're saying. Okay, I'm
turning it up now.
Okay, is that good chat? (Yeah) Yeah, okay, talk a
little okay. Yeah, 1 2 3 testing 1 2 3
Should be good. All right yeah you can
ask whatever you want, and if I don't
want to answer it on stream (Just don't answer it) I just won't I guess
Yeah yeah okay.
So tell me um, what do you
mean by depression? Let's start there.
Well I've been diagnosed with bipolar
type 2. (Ah) And when I was six, my brother
killed himself. He also had it.
How old was he? He was 21,
a very big age gap. (Okay) And then
because of that, when I've gone to get
treated, they can never -- can never give me
SSRIs. I've never tried an SSRI. Cuz he tried an SSRI and then that --
that happened after. (Okay)
Prozac. (Okay, okay) Um and I've tried a couple
things. I've tried like --  I was on a really high dose of lithium at one point.
How did that make you feel?
Very bland yeah the same thing people
always say. Like kind of dead, you know,
kind of -- (Yeah)
Yeah, and then um, God I've tried a bunch of
other ones, but they're not super
memorable. One of them gave me like some
eye pain, so I had to stop taking
it cuz I was really sensitive to light.
Maybe you know which one I'm talking
about. (Okay) I don't know, I tried a bunch
of different ones. This is like, 14 years
ago, most of it, so now I don't really remember.
Umm, but uh --
Has medication ever been helpful?
Okay, so the only thing that's been
really helpful is when I was in
Amsterdam
I took psilocybin and it really worked
for me. You know, so this is fascinating.
So the FDA just today I think classified
psilocybin as a breakthrough therapy,
I don't know if people know this, for
treatment for anxiety and depression. (Yeah yeah I heard about it yeah)
So psilocybin was helpful, and in what way?
It's such an intense feeling. It's kind
of hard to explain, but it let me get out
of these like thought loops that I was
in that were causing me to be sad. (Yeah)
And I just step back and see things in a
new perspective.
Okay, so today's supposed
to be a stream about meditation. And
Reckful, I'm gonna ask you a couple of
other questions. But if it's okay with
you guys, we're gonna talk about that and
like what's happening in your mind, and
why psilocybin is helpful, and how you
can cultivate that sensation without
using psilocybin. (Okay!) So the first thing
is like this this phrase of " thought loop" I
love. So why don't you explain to people
"what is a thought loop"? Um okay, now you'd
explain it better! *Laughs* But just certain
things -- You're going along through your
day and a certain thing happens. And it
always causes you to think in the same
pattern of -- a certain negative feeling at
the end. And I always hear it described as
it's like an icy mountain with the sleds.
A lot of the sleds have gone down and then
there's these patterns that have formed that your
mind tends to go down one of these paths
of the sleds (Yup) And then when you're on
psilocybin, it seems like it doesn't. It's
just kind of free to think of whatever. (Yeah so -)
Okay. Yeah, so let's talk about thought
loops for a second. So the first thing to
understand is that it's a repetitive
pattern of thinking that sort of leaves
you -- leads you to the same place every
time. But then you take the ski lift back
to the top of the mountain and then you
just go back down it again. (Yes) Right? So
like this is important to understand
because your mind thinks that it's doing
productive thinking, but it's not doing
productive thinking. It's just thinking
the same shit over and over again. So I
kind of think about thought loops like
chewing gum. Like they're working working
working, but there's no nutrition. There's
no actual resolution, and there's no
benefit. You're just chewing the same
shit over and over and over again. (Okay)
The other thing is in your case like I
would imagine that your thought loops
are focused on yourself. Right? They're
about you. My thought loops are about me?..
I have to think about it, if that's true.. Umm
So.. what are the thought loops I have?
Yes, so let's start there. Usually they have to
do with, "Oh, leading back to everything
has no purpose" or something like that I think.
(Okay, great) But then at the same
time, even when I'm happy, I don't mind
the thought that "everything has no
purpose" So that's a strange -- it seems
contradictory. (It, it's not.) It's not?
Okay tell me why --
It does seem contradictory. (Okay)
Okay, so because this is -- Um, so let me ask you -- Okay, now we're gonna get weird
Reckful. Do you believe that life -- what
do you think of -- what's your sense
of like what life is?
Umm, I'm an organism that uhh came to be from two
other organisms who (Sure) liked each
other enough to (have a child) have a baby.
Yeah, and is that -- are you -- is that all you are?
You're just a biological organism?
And I have consciousness which we can't
really explain, "the hard problem". Okay
(Right?) Yeah, so what does that --
What do you think about your life? Like
what's the -- like, do you feel like your
life has purpose? Most of the time "no", but
recently I've started to think "yes"
because I realized I can start trying to
help other people who have had my same
problems. So I relate to them and then I
hope by making this game I'm working on
that they can find friendship and a
sense of community. Because I'm making an
MMO (Okay) like a really..yeah. 
Okay, that's awesome man!
Things I wanted as a kid, yeah.
Okay, so I'm gonna
just dive into Sanskrit for a second,
okay? So Sanskrit -- the the Yogis like
back in ancient India, like thousands of
years ago, basically started to believe
that the world was false. And the reason
that they started to believe the world
was false is because they sort of
understood that like the sense organs
can be falsified. So either (Yeah) through the
use of hallucinogens or dreams. But
ultimately that the experience that they
have within a dream is actually the same
experience that you have within reality. That even though a dream can be fake or
real, YOUR experience of a dream is the
same as your experience of life. That you
can feel suffering, you can feel joy, you
can feel hope, you can feel sorrow, (Yes that's true)
you can feel abject terror. And so what they realized
is that like ultimately the
foundation of reality is actually
consciousness and that the foundation of
reality is experience and that the
external world is false.
Yeah I've listened to the "case against
reality", maybe you've heard that? Dan
Hoffman I think? Uh I haven't heard that one
in particular, but there's a lot of stuff
from quantum mechanics that supports
this. I don't know if Dan Hoffman talks
about that. (Okay)
But a good example of like
understanding this from a quantum
mechanics perspective, which there's an
argument against what I'm about to say,
which I'm happy to go into, people who
are interested. But basically that
reality exists as a probability, and it's
the act of observation that causes a
probability to collapse into a reality.
Which is sort of a weird complicated
thing to say but --
Say it one more time?
So, that reality actually exists as a
probability. Like reality is not static
in that the act of observation causes a
probability to collapse into a reality.
(Okay) So like the world exists as a
probability waveform, and when you
observe something, that probability
disappears and it becomes a reality. (Okay!)
Yeah, I mean I've read some quantum mechanics stuff like Sean Carroll or whatever.
Yeah, so like Schrodinger's Cat I think
is the best example of this. But then (Yeah)
there was this experiment called The Double Slit Experiment, which actually proved
that observation -- That was really weird!
It's bizarre! (Yeah!) What do you remember
about it? Double slit experiment umm okay..
They shoot electrons through the two
slits. If they look at the electrons, they
show up on the other side as like uhh -- in a
in a certain pattern And if they
don't look at it, they show up in two
different patterns.
Yeah exactly. Yeah, so
they show up as an interference pattern
if you don't look at which of the slits
the electron -- I mean, *the photon* goes through.
Right? So it's like (Okay the photons, yeah)
the bands of light and dark. (Yeah) And then, if you observe
which phot -- which *slit* the photon goes
through, then the pattern on the
other side disappears. So literally like
what you see depends on where you look!
Like if I'm looking at the slit (Yes, it's bizarre!) then I only see one
point of light.
And if I'm not looking at the slit,
then I actually see an interference pattern. Right? It's crazy! (Yeah, it's bizarre!)
So what's it -- what's your -- what's your
interpretation of it?
That consciousness creates reality. It's what the Yogis have been saying for
thousands of years. (Okay) That the act of
observation: that our consciousness has
creative power. Now, (Okay) the interesting
thing is that if you -- so now we get to
Sanskrit, and this is kind of a real
roundabout way of getting to this idea.
So the Yogis actually came up with two
words for reality. One is Maya: Maya means
"illusion", and the other is Lila: and Lila
means "play". And so interestingly enough
both of these sort of imply a falseness
to the universe. But I think what's
happening is on some sense you've had an
experience, either through psilocybin or
other things -- and I suspect other things,
and we'll get to that later -- that has
given you a sense that something about
the world is not real. And what happens (Okay)
is when (I have had it many times, yeah) when you're happy -
Yeah, we'll get to that. - when you're happy
you can exist in a Lila state which is
like "it's no big deal that the world
isn't real" It's play! Like "let's just
have a good time!" It's actually just like
a video game! Like just because -- (It's like the experience machine!) Yeah, and just because a video
game isn't real doesn't mean that we
can't enjoy it, right? In fact, quite the
opposite: that's actually a big problem
for most of my audience. Yeah, you don't
need to know -- you don't need to know how the game works even to enjoy (Absolutely!) playing it
You know, you always are trying to figure
out how life works.. NOW we have to be
careful. Because even though you can --
you can appreciate Lila, which is play,
and you can appreciate that nothing in
the world is real, WHEN YOUR DEPRESSION
ACTS UP -- and I want you to understand
that depression is like a pattern of
thinking within your mind. It takes the
things that you know and distorts them.
So it takes the fact -- It hijacks this
idea that you know that the world is
like, not a real place, in some sense.
And then it sort of makes you feel like
there's no purpose because nothing is
real. But that's an understanding that
doesn't actually mean like anything bad.
It's just -- That's what the depression
does. The depression hijacks your
thinking and takes the things that you
know and spins them in a particular way
that like actually makes you suffer.
Yes, but then I was also saying that even
when I'm happy, and I even if I thought
reality was an illusion, I could still be
happy at those moments.
Yeah! Absolutely!
Right? But those are -- that's because when
you're able to step outside of
depression, when you're able to step
outside of yourself. You can appreciate
that like life can be happy and joyous,
even though it isn't real.
But when your Depression kicks in, you
become nihilistic. So nihilism is this
idea that like "life has no purpose and
no meaning so might as well fuck around"
which actually isn't the case.
So first, Reckful, why don't you tell me a
little bit about what happens in your
mind -- Any questions about this? No, that
I can -- that I followed. I mean, okay, it
does follow that what we see as reality
is not based reality for sure. Because if
you think how a different animal, let's
say we look at an ant. They're not gonna
perceive reality anything similarly to
how we do. They perceive reality in a way
that helps them survive. And we perceive
in a reality in a way that helps us
survive,  right? Let's say, we have to
notice a lion running at us, or whatever,
and we have to notice motion more than
other things, or like about you, back in
the day. And the people who actually saw
too many things or saw based reality
wouldn't have survived, you know, if --
The natural selection would favor people
who just see certain things more --
Beautiful! So so now now that that segues
into an important point which is that
your mind is designed to survive. It's
not actually designed to protect you
from suffering. (Yes) Okay (Yeah) so this is one
of the most simple things that like, I
think a lot of people -- I mean, I disagree
with a lot of my colleagues in the sense
that my impression of a lot of mental
illness is that it's actually FUNCTIONAL,
USEFUL mechanisms of our mind that (I
could believe that) that are kind of out
of whack or haywire. So anxiety is a good
example of our mind's ability -- go ahead.
Yeah, no, I agree with you. (WHY?) Because I was just saying on my stream earlier today that
uh, anxiety actually could get passed on
as a trait from natural selection
because it could help. Let's say you're
always worried someone's gonna kill you
You could have, a thousand years ago,
survived because of that and that (Absolutely!) that trait could pass on.
So let's just tap into a second what anxiety is. And I've talked a lot about anxiety, so we're gonna talk
more about depression today. But what I
understand anxiety to be is that anxiety
is simply your mind's ability to
look into the future and predict
problems. That's all it is. (Okay) It's just the
future-predicting capability. And if you
think about someone's experience of
anxiety, what happens is they look into
the future and they predict a problem
And the possibility of that problem
worries them so much that it sort of
controls their behavior. So if I'm afraid
of looking like an idiot when I do
public speaking, that anxiety is actually
trying to protect me. It's not trying to
fuck me over. It's trying to protect -- by
the way, can I curse on your stream or? --
Do whatever the fuck you want, yeah.
And so actually, all really anxiety --
Anxiety's trying to help you out. And the
first thing to understand if you want to
conquer your anxiety is that, like it's
trying to help you out. And then you just
have to understand that it's it's like a
guard dog that is like way too sensitive.
So there are ways that you can calm it
down, but the first thing that we need to
stop doing is demonizing our anxiety or
trying to like root it out of us.
Because once we understand where it
comes from, then we can try to put it
into context, we can try to help it. But
let's talk a little bit more about
depression today. So tell me what your
experience of depression is.
Okay, it's very hard very hard to explain. The
easiest way to explain is I've had years
of my life like this, where I wake up
every day, and I don't see a purpose to
doing anything. Well I don't see a
purpose in getting out of bed. I don't
care if I stream or don't or if I go eat
or don't At some point I get really
hungry. I'm like, okay I guess I have -- like
I feel like I -- It forces me to kind of,
you know. (Yeah) But I don't really care
one way or the other. And then I
start to think I don't care if I -- when
I go to sleep, I don't care if I wake up.
I'd prefer not to, actually. The sleeping
was the most peaceful part of my day.
Okay and how long would this like -- how
long would this stretch last?
Years. (With? -- Okay,  so --)
I've had it since I was 14. And there's like 14 to 16..
And then I remember when I found photography,
I was like a little inspired for a
little bit and then it went away. And
then maybe 17 to 20.. -- like, it goes for
years, and then I'm happy for a little
bit, and then years, and then happy for a little bit.
How long is your period of happiness? 
My chat would know better than I do, but it's
pretty short. I don't know.. I like -- two
months maybe? (Okay) Yeah, is that? -- You
hear about people like that?
Yeah, so I think I think this is a really common
misconception. I think I think you're -- you
may have clinical depression, but I think
what you're describing is not clinical
depression. So I'm gonna explain to you
guys what clinical depression is. I think
your problem is that your life is empty.
That's different. In fact, that's what we
were going to talk to the other person
about today and we will. So I got a bunch
of questions about this because --
So you're saying you think I was diagnosed
incorrectly when they said they have  bipolar type 2?
You may have depression on top of that. But what I want you to understand is that like
there are different flavors of
depression. One of them is a biological
organic neurochemical kind of thing. (Okay) And
what I'm hearing from in --  but there are
certain features of that that you -- you're not -- you don't really fit that bill.
So I'm gonna describe what that is.
So you may be depressed on top of being
unhappy or having a life without purpose.
(Okay) But those are two independent things and
the whole point behind what what people
got interested in last week and what
we're gonna finish up today is actually
perfect for you! Which is maybe why
people are telling you to come on.
So I treat people with depression, (Yeah) and
sometimes what happens is I treat them
for a while and they come into my office
and they say like -- Okay, so I'll like
assess them for depression I'll be like,
"Are you getting out of bed every day? Are
you able to do this? Are you able to
concentrate? Are you able to go to work?"
And they'll say, "Yeah, but I'm still depressed."
And then I tell them, "Well
actually, like I don't think you're
clinically depressed. Now you're just unhappy."
And there's a difference between
clinical depression and unhappiness or a
life without purpose. (Okay)
And this is the tricky thing. It's like what's
happened is our society's become so
mental health focused, that we've started
to describe all of these things as like
mental pathologies. (Okay) But I think that this is like, your problem is that you're at
the top of Maslow's Hierarchy of Needs.
Are you familiar with that? (No) Okay, so
Maslow basically said we have a
hierarchy of needs. That at the bottom we
need like food and shelter, and then we
need community, and all that kind of stuff.
And at the very top is something
called self-actualization.
That at the end of the day, like we have a need to become like fully actualized human
beings who like derive -- I mean, it's a
need for us to feel like we're
accomplishing what we put our mind to. (Okay)
And so I think what you are is
unfulfilled, and that you've probably
been inappropriate --
(I mean, that's true.)
-- insufficiently challenged since you were
a teenager. And that life has not like
given you anything that was worth
fighting for.
That it's just like it's been like easy mode.
Now you may be depressed on top of that, so let's talk about that for a second.
So clinical depression is an episodic illness.
That's the first thing to understand.
So major depressive disorder *or* bipolar disorder is episodic. (Yeah)
Which means that for periods of time, you're well.
And then you enter a period of depression, which lasts two weeks to
about one year. Maybe a little bit over a
year. And that you have a period of like
and then it sort of naturally gets
better.
Oh, one thing! Now I'm worried that, 'What
if I incorrectly remembered my past
when saying I've gone years of being
unhappy?'
That's very possible!
And now I'm getting -- now I'm getting
misdiagnosed. (No, no --)
Maybe I haven't gotten years.. maybe it's been one year.
Sure, so that's possible so like I said I
don't think that --
How long -- how long do the happy periods -- would the happy periods be?
It depends on the person, but,
generally speaking, like I'm looking for
a few months to a year to even over a
year, right? So I'm looking for like
somewhere between like four and six
months of like a period of remission. Now
you could, like I said, you *could* have
depression. You could have depression. I don't know
that you don't, or bipolar type 2.
But what I'm saying is that like,
generally speaking, sometimes I talk to
people, and they say, "I've been depressed
since I was the age of 14." And if you've
constantly been depressed for 15 years,
that's not how major depressive disorder
works. Because our body has--
No, because I've come -- I've come in and out of it.
So I've come out of it when I like to started photography.
I came out of it when I started liking, uh.. I guess World
of Warcraft for a bit. Came out of it when --
like, little periods though -- I came out of
it when -- I everytime I find -- But then I
think that could lead back to
fulfillment. Every time I find this
'something' I really like, then I come out
of it. For sure, so it could just be the
fulfillment thing you're saying.
Well, so hold on, let's talk about this. So I
think you're onto something, but that
your solution is half correct. (Okay)
So why do you think it is that photography -- Like do
you remember when you started doing
photography? Like, how old were you?
I was sixteen. My dad bought me a camera for my birthday, and I remember taking a bunch
of pictures of film camera. And then when I
got it developed, I looked at it. And I was
like, "Oh, I really like this. This is fun."
And that's it. Nothing more to it than that.
Okay um, how -- do you remember how you
felt before you got like.. -- Tell me about
like what high school was like for you.
Early high school.
Man, it's kind of hard to dig deep into..
Okay. I do remember I, like most students, didn't enjoy being in class.
I had a few friends outside of class though. We played -- I started liking
playing guitar a little bit. And some of
them played guitar a little. Um, I liked that.
There were little periods of enjoyment
here and there. We talked about what kind
of music we liked, like high schoolers do
I guess.
Did you (Umm..) do you have fond
memories of being a freshman in high
school?
Some! Some memories are not bad..
overall my thought about school is that
I didn't like it but I can remember some
good things what I didn't like about it
being in class but I remember liking I
did like some I played guitar in front
of a bunch of people like an unplugged
concert thing during high school I
remember liking
mm-hmm so what didn't you like about
class it was boring uh the things I was
learning weren't things that were super
stimulating to me and sometimes I
already knew them but not always I
didn't always know them yeah sometimes I
just didn't know them but they weren't
what I was interested in huh school was
easy school was pretty easy yeah III was
uh yeah I had good grades and SAT and
all that yeah yeah
so we're gonna talk more about how you
were insufficiently challenged because I
still think that's your problem but
we'll get to that
so tell me a little bit about so it
doesn't sound like I'm not hearing
anything about depression when you were
in high school you said 14 but you're
not describing anything to me that oh
yeah no cuz it's hard for me to really
dig deep and remember I mean I listen
okay I remember I listened to a lot of
sad music I was a lot of people who
killed listen I was idolizing a lot of
people who killed themselves okay at the
time because I was listening like
Nirvana and then Elliott Smith and then
I don't know a bunch of other I can't
remember but I mean sounds like you were
yeah yeah it could be yeah I know I was
but the lyrics were very relatable to me
okay what was relatable I mean lyrics I
guess just this overall lack of purpose
and meaning something to something
it's it I kind of really have to I feel
like I'm not doing justice to my own
life you know to my own memories I can't
remember exactly well you're not gonna
be able to write so yeah yeah so I I'm
I'm kind of digging around and and
you're not expected like I don't
remember much about when I was 14 like
you know people don't really remember
much about when they're 14 and that's
okay it's just I'm trying to figure out
where where the money is and it sounding
like okay so when I was 16 okay when I
was 16 I
I tried to kill myself okay so when I
when I was 16 I uh I took 20 to 22
sleeping pills and they drank a bottle
of wine and I tied a plastic bag over my
head and I fell asleep and I just woke
up later and I had ripped the bag off my
head and I was alive and and uh I
worried and asked do you remember what
you were feeling when you tried to kill
yourself
he was really dumb I there was a game I
was playing called a Sean's khalaf when
I was 10 when I was 16 and then that
game was no longer popular no one was
playing it and I'd know when to play
with a car - yes right know as an MMORPG
okay and it started dying because of all
the Warcraft and no one else was on to
play anymore and I felt like the only
thing I cared about and the only thing
I'd practice my whole life and really
loved was irrelevant okay yeah great I
mean not great but I think I'm starting
to see a pattern okay so great so let's
just think about that for a second
reckful let's think about that right
yeah what what do you think was going on
in your head there so I think now that
you you're leading me to the answer but
the Ashlyn stall was giving me
fulfillment and you know a place to try
as hard as I could and be competitive
and whatever and meet friends and all
these things all these natural human
desires was it hard then uh it was hard
yeah yeah and then uh then it went away
and I didn't have that anymore and I was
unfulfilled uh-huh and then when did you
get your camera it was around a little
after that yep yeah round yeah and then
I started like a photography so tell me
about the photography it's really hard
when it's about artistic things I can't
remember like the feet have a feeling
and the while like I don't know but I
was in a pictures for a while and then
my parents took me on a trip to Europe
to show me where they used to live in
Switzerland and
neighbouring countries I took a lot of
pictures there and I came back and I I
got a bunch of my pictures printed out
and then I walked around a South
Hollywood and like then to art galleries
I showed them my pictures and one of
them put my pictures up in the gallery
mm-hm and then I remember feeling good
yeah did that happen and and when did
the depression come back after the
pictures could have been around the time
with the gallery because everyone liked
other people's pictures way more than
mine I don't remember exactly what yeah
so I don't know if it was in a weird way
I don't know if it's because do you
remember feeling like you were you had
done a really good job with the pictures
in the gallery yes for sure and then you
know everyone else's pictures were
really edited and it was annoying to me
cuz I thought mine were better but
everyone liked the other what's better
yeah yeah so okay and then what was
another thing that brought you out of
your depression
I don't okay I don't remember the next
part because I start playing World of
Warcraft but I don't member ever being
happy while playing World of Warcraft I
played it for so many years yeah I
remember I remember being really happy
at any moment even when I was at the top
okay so I want you to so I think your
periods of happiness like when you came
out of your depression those sound to me
like they're not dealing with the
underlying problem I think what happened
is you had opportunities for you to
distract yourself from the underlying
depression like you can get into
something but only for a time and you
can only distract yourself for so long
and then what happens is is one of two
things that happens either one is that
like something takes that away from you
or oddly enough I think the thing that
the reason that that photography may
have lost is it its interest is this is
gonna sound really bizarre is not
because other people's photography was
better than yours because something
tells me that when someone is better
than you at something
that actually pull actually want to try
it's a drive yeah what happened your
fucking problem was that you were young
you were how old 16 and someone put up
your artwork in a gallery in Hollywood
and that is you won the game
that doesn't mean you lost that means
you fucking won okay
and I feel like I wanna be okay yeah I
know you didn't but I think the real
problem there cuz it's weird right like
you would think that I would you would
think so we have to just understand that
like we would think certain things but
we have to look at the data of your life
and interpret it what was disappointing
what got you out of photography or when
it Lots it lost its luster was actually
at the height of your career and you
could have kept going it wasn't like him
it wasn't like you walked around and you
dropped it because no one displayed your
artwork like that makes more sense like
that's a loss right I walked around and
I showed it to a bunch of people and no
one displayed it which is like that's
not even that unusual because you're
fucking 16 you took some pictures yeah
yeah who's gonna display your artwork in
a gallery in Hollywood when you're 16
and you're just like you got a camera
months ago well it turns out that
someone will because you're really good
at photography because you do a good job
at things that you apply yourself to and
that you find challenging and when
you're engrossed in a challenge you
don't have to worry about the fact that
your life is like its core meaningless
because you can find you can find some
sense of like external challenge and it
pulls you out of yourself it pulls you
out of yourself when you're doing
photography well that was really
accurate and the thing reckful is that
you don't like being yourself and so
when you can pull yourself out of being
yourself it's an amazing feeling because
you don't have to be rekted right
because reckful is life isn't worth
living like you can wake up today and
you can eat or not eat but who the fuck
cares
it's just reckful is life but when
you're doing photography you're like
you're not reckful anymore right you're
like taking a picture you become kind of
like one with the picture and then the
problem is like once you get good at
that then you're like back to being
I feel like you've conquered that and so
you're like okay well now what so we
gotta understand like what is it about
you that makes you feel like like living
your life is not worth living and we're
gonna talk for a second I'm gonna get to
that in a second but I want to talk
about psilocybin
so what psilocybin looks but so Simon
does is it takes you away from reckful
that's why you want it right because you
love actively love your shirt whatever
okay but like so so your thought loops
in the depression and stuff like that
that all exists within reckful like
wreck flows life you have this ego this
thing called a hunger which thinks that
your your life is fundamentally like
meaningless and what psilocybin does is
it takes you actually outside of your
ego we have a sense of identity that is
based on like who we are and like by who
we are like things that go on a resume
so you identify as like gender or you
know like you're your you have a certain
like professional career you have a
certain age you have a name these are
the things that you identify with and
when you're taking a picture you're none
of those things does that make sense
okay yeah it does uh I don't like my
identity
so you're saying yeah your life and so
anytime you have an opportunity so when
you're playing music like you're no
longer like a particular age you're just
playing music you become one with the
music you become one with the rock Rafi
but this the distraction pulls me out of
my immersion in a first-person
experience whatever yeah absolutely and
that's exactly what psilocybin does
right so psilocybin is a substance that
causes the walls of the self to break
down yeah so whether whether it's
psilocybin whether it's music whether
it's photography or and and this is the
other interesting thing is you're
finding purpose and why are you finding
purpose again what do you like about
what you're doing I like I like that I'm
trying to give people something
I wanted as a kid what is what is the
who's the focus on who are you thinking
about just few people have an experience
yeah so I'll tell you reckful listen
carefully now your depression you're
trying to cure the depression that is
growing within kids outs out there today
you're trying to protect them from what
happened to you yeah that how does that
feel feels good yeah feels meaningful
yeah good is an understatement the
understatement of the fucking year it is
vital it is crucial you must do this
thing yeah I think it's the fucking
understatement of the year when you say
yeah it's like it like gives me a reason
to wake up in the morning like no this
is this isn't our MA I've talked about
Tara you may not know what I'm talking
about people who watch regularly this
isn't her mo you guys are seeing it
right this is like this is duty or
responsibility it's not something that
you're doing this is the other thing the
really powerful thing about this and
we'll get to the roots of your
depression the really powerful thing
about this is that you're not thinking
about yourself anymore I don't know I'd
like to feel selfless like that but I
don't know that it's true you know I'd
like that your thought yeah well we'll
get to how you're thinking about
yourself so I think now we also
understand the roots of your depression
because the person if you want to
understand why you're depressed you have
to like really envision who is it that
you're trying to help like all of the
qualities when you're saying that you
wanted to give people an experience that
you didn't have as a kid I don't think
you're talking about playing a fucking
video game I think you're talking about
being alone I think you're talking about
being abandoned and you don't want
people to feel the way that you felt and
so you're trying to make the world a
better place
maybe what are you feeling right now I
don't know it's Tapatio automatically I
am yeah
I'm not thinking anything take a moment
it's nice to feel something yeah it's
kind of weird right because you're
crying so most people associate that as
like a thing that they don't want to
feel no I liked it yeah how do you feel
what do you feel in your body feel like
um in my body I don't know how to
describe it I don't know I I feel I feel
like I just passed something yeah and uh
kind of hopeful I guess
yeah future maybe yeah I I think I
imagine you feel a little bit lighter
but we what we can call it is levelling
a little bit you just leveled up yeah
okay you want to keep going or you want
to take a break no it's good uh what we
can keep talking but what what what
games have you played what's your how
did you know my well stuffer I'm because
I so I played wow like in vanilla and
Burning Crusade Brinker shows good why
are we talking older you why are you
asking me questions about yourself
myself now of all times
what do you think I don't know you tell
me that's us taking a break so I think
you've had a lot and now you I think you
need to step away from what you're
feeling for a little bit and already
your mind is returning to normal right
you're returning to normal reckful or
your thoughts like your mind had shut
down for a little bit and as you start
to ask me questions about myself which
I'm happy to answer your mind is gonna
start functioning again and that feeling
is slowly going to
away uh-huh so shall we take a break
what do you mean by break like uh
we're just gonna talk about anything no
no about whatever so what I mean by
break is like you just went through
something that was like a little bit
powerful and a little bit emotional and
that's a strange state of mind to be in
you didn't know what the fuck was
happening and it was like it was like
you went underwater
and now we're coming up for air so if
you want to we can go back underwater
like if you want me to just do that
again we can do that again and you can
learn more or not to blow my nose yeah
okay yeah you could talk people okay I
mean that was intense
yeah I know I'm still live on stream I
just need to process for a second to
okay so okay so I should introduce
myself to stream so my name is dr. olive
kitteridge I'm a psychiatrist
practicing in Boston Massachusetts my
main area of interest is technology and
video game addiction but I have a kind
of a different background I spent maybe
I should wait until rectals back but I
spent a few years about seven years
studying in India to become a monk and
then spent about seven years studying to
become a monk and then ended up going to
medical school and became a psychiatrist
if you guys want a Harvard Andy I'm I
trained at Harvard Medical School and
I'm faculty at Harvard Medical School
which a lot of people seem to get a kick
out of and my main area of interest
until about one year ago was
incorporating like Eastern medicine like
Eastern ideas and philosophy so studying
a lot of like yoga and meditation and
Buddhism Hinduism some of the more
esoteric spiritual practices as well
into mental health treatment and my
experience has been that like our
Western understanding of mental health
is just wow fully incomplete and there
are a lot of reasons for that
and I've had a lot of success through
helping people kind of like reckful by
sort of getting to some root issues
which is what what the Eastern system
kind of conceptualizes like Western
medicine thinks about depression is like
something that you just treat with an
SSRI like you just give them medication
and you do some therapy and then like
it's just a disease that you live with
for the rest of your life like there's
this idea in Western medicine that once
you get diagnosed with depression you
have depression your entire life I don't
believe that I mean I think some people
do but in my experience I've had some
people in my practice who have had
bipolar disorder or who like or off of
medications and they have these sort of
really powerful spiritual or
psychological experiences that really
get to the root of where their illness
comes from and by getting to that root
you can actually like have someone have
a transformative experience which is
what I believe
and in in reckful x' case i think that
you know he may fit criteria for a
bipolar disorder type ii but i think the
basic problem here is that we're gonna
talk to him in a minute
you ready to dive in again yeah okay I
kind of wanted to hear what my basic
problem was but it's better I don't know
no no it's fine yeah so we're gonna get
to that so I think basically like
reckful x'
challenges that something like i don't
know if you guys saw this but there's
something really powerful about what
he's trying to do and that comes from
somewhere right like it's not like you
just waked like he's not trying to help
people with like autism he's not trying
to help people with Down syndrome he's
not trying to help people with who were
you know like victims of like genocide
or the Holocaust he's trying to help
like lonely kids find meaning in
community and support and I think that's
that's the route so my question for you
reckful is like what was your childhood
like tell me about your childhood okay
so I have some early memories of playing
games with my brothers I like those a
lot and I remember even just watching I
would try to stay up late and watch them
play certain computer games and then two
brothers yeah - I had two brothers yeah
and then how was the age difference ones
ten years older ones 15 years older okay
so I would just watch them play games I
remember like I was really young like
four or five and I couldn't beat a level
in Doom and then my brother went in and
like edited the
code of the game so the ceilings were
too low for the monsters to run around
they were running in place and I could
just go through and beat the level which
I still enjoyed doing yeah of course
which brother did that guy my brother
who passed away yeah yeah and when I was
six that happened I remember seeing like
hospital cars and for some reason I
remember seeing a lady my dad worked
with walk out of the house and I was
like my thought at the time was is that
my new mom I remember thinking some I
knew something was wrong but I don't
know what happened yeah so hold on a
second so you approached the house from
the outside yeah cuz my other brother
Gary he drove me Oh to an arcade cuz
something bad had happened I get but he
was crying while I was playing arcade
games that I know it was wrong and then
we came back home but the hospital car
was still there with the plus side and
then everyone was crying I don't
remember too many specifics I mean when
I came home from school my mom would
always be crying or not not there she'd
be in her room then I'd play games okay
yeah I'd play like Super Nintendo yeah
and it seems like your memory is pretty
good when it comes to this well that
that yeah that memory is really strong
that with the hospital car mm-hmm but
the other I don't remember like coming
home from school specific days I
remember before that happen I used to
get so excited to see my brothers when I
came over from school I'd be like his
guy home as Gary home you know and me
excited to play games with them
um yeah and and that was gone after yeah
yeah and yeah my my brother other
brother Gary he never left his room
anymore and he was he'd be playing
guitar I'd hear and play guitar so um
what do you think life was like for you
after that it's very lonely for sure
yeah yeah it's hard for me remember any
more specifics like day-to-day from what
I'm six but I just yeah yes I I know I
play games a lot yeah so I mean this is
gonna sound like kind of a weird
question maybe a leading question but I
can see a certain beautiful purpose with
five year old you in your life what was
your project old me yeah what was five
year old his purpose fuck I don't know I
just wanted to play I want to be as good
as my brothers to play games with them
something I think yeah right it's like
simple but it was it was pure and it was
simple and it was it was like it was
absolutely there right like you were
excited about that like that's what
that's what you live for like yeah and
you would like watch them play yeah yeah
yeah yeah that's okay what are you
feeling now I don't know it just happens
automatically yeah so close your eyes
for a second okay tell me what you feel
in your body something here yep I'm
really bad at describing feelings yes
that's why we're doing this we're gonna
teach you right now
okay okay what are you feeling in your
chest where people describe this as a
tightness maybe a tightness and I keep I
realize I need to breathe more steadily
okay so your breathing is erratic
ya know what what's happening so as you
notice the feeling what happens to it
it's going away yeah right and what just
what just changed with your breathing
your breathing is different it's more
regular yeah yeah what's happening to
the feeling it's going away yeah another
way to describe yeah so yeah but it's
going away like would you say it's
loosening what I say it's what loosening
loosening yeah the tightness is
loosening mm-hmm I'm relaxing mm-hmm
yeah okay so now keep your eyes closed
okay so tell me a little bit about
five-year-old you and what he wanted
from life he wanted to get out of what
school or even when you're 5
kindergarten yeah you wanted to get out
of kindergarten as fast he could like
he'd come home play games with his
brothers yeah and I'm gonna say
something kind of weird so reckful I
think you love five-year-old you a lot
and I think you have a lot of hurt
because something really bad happened to
him like you love that kid and something
that was just terrible happened to him
do you see how like that kid is not you
like that's like it's not right that's a
different no but you love him so much
and the problem here is that you're
trying to protect him you try so hard to
protect him and take away what happened
to him but you just can't do it and you
don't know how to help him yeah what
does he need sure
I don't know come to terms with reality
nope no just think about it for a second
like what does he need like what do you
want to protect him from I have no idea
okay so but but you understand that he's
different and you understand that
something happened to him what happened
to him let's start there mm you got
quickly shoved out of his comfort zone
of family and things he cared about yeah
I think so
I'm not I'm not buying its owners of
your tournament yeah I was trying to
yeah so so what happened I went
different it's way more powerful than
comfort oh it's true how do I worry well
he had he had family uh-huh and he
didn't absolutely there you go right
it's so simple
yeah so simple it's not fuckin comfort
zone and what do you want for him what
does he need family absolutely
absolutely it's nice and simple it is
yeah the things that fuck us over always
are now this is the really profound
thing reckful is that while this seems
like it fucked you over in a sense of
course it did but in a sense it didn't
this is your Karma
this is what happened to you and this is
what's made you the person that you are
and I think that this is like as long as
that feeling is there like this feeling
of loss and loneliness like that your
purpose when you saw that that that
medical van or ambulance with the Plus
on on the side that was the day you lost
your purpose and for a time you found
activities that can help you get past
that you can forget about it
but that's the day that like your life
changed right like every reason that you
had to wake up in the morning was to go
to class so that you could come home
from class and spend time with Diane
Gary and then one day all of that
changed and it changed you presumably
irrevocably but I don't think that
that's true I think you can get Pat's
past this and I think your lack of
purpose is like this is where it comes
from I'm feeling a little better
have you talked to anyone about this
yeah but I uh I didn't let myself go
deep in it I guess I think I cuz it was
always most the time I was it was when I
was 16 when I want to talk to people
yeah I think I was a little more closed
off than I am now yep all you need is
the Internet to watch yeah well I became
really open with everything because I
realized to help me at some points I
guess yeah yeah I think can help others
too yeah so why are you making this game
reckful I always wanted to make a game
sure but this reminds me as soon as I
said that have you seen the split brain
experiment video where there's a guy on
his left side he says pick up the
Rubik's Cube and he picks it up and then
he lets us hand it to your other hand
and then he they ask the right his right
side why are you holding a Rubik's Cube
and he says I always wanted to learn how
to solve one of these which makes me
think a lot of times when people are
describing something they're doing and
why they're doing it it's inaccurate
absolutely
so I don't know brilliant I know I
always wanted yeah yeah I know I always
wanted to concave for sure when I
started playing an MMO when I was 10
just cuz Gary wanted to make a Pokemon
MMO and we were doing research on other
MMOs and then I ended up playing it for
seven six seven years from 1999 so he's
got a footy I always thought it was a
cool idea to make a game I started
stream on Twitch because some game
company made a game called Forge said
that advertises her game I could work
for them or something or you know help
design the game and that you know didn't
their game didn't succeed so they never
hired me and then now I finally can make
my own game just you know because I'm
steering for a long time and can fund it
yeah so reckful I this is really
important to understand okay and I'm
gonna reference some stuff that I've
talked about before so I I want you to
understand that everything that's
happened in your life has brought you to
this point you've always wanted to make
a game but that's a desire that's just
like man I've always wanted to make a
game cuz I'm a gamer and that's kind of
cool like I also want to like I've
wanted to make games like I'm interested
in that I bet a lot of people are but
what got you to where you are like like
it has to be the right game the Stars
have to align for you to make the game
that you need to make and there's been
one really big star missing which is
like purpose and I think the reason that
your this game like this game is
different it's got to be because you're
trying to solve something with this game
you know and that's gonna give you the
strength that you need to actually solve
it yeah I'm a little worried I don't
know that I'll initially solve it on
first release right away but I want to
you know always be patching and
iterating yet to get there yeah yeah we
can talk about that more but I'm you
know I'm not worried about I mean that's
just yeah so I think the main thing here
is that you're trying to do something
really important
right and I think you're not you're not
making the game for some like faceless
kid out there yeah you're saying I'm
making the game for a kid like me who
wanted something to go home to and
friends just spend time with wait a way
to spend time with friends online and
have community and stuff yes which is
true for sure yeah I mean I would take
it even one step further I don't think
it was for a game for a kid like you oh
you just saying I'm making it for me not
for the you today me as a kid yeah yeah
that's where it comes from what do you
think about that that's really accurate
I think yeah when you say it I mean
rings true yeah yeah right so I think
this comes down to so if you want to get
to the roots of your depression you've
got a you've got to help that kid like
within yourself you cut out you don't
get to the root what a great time to cut
out right yes to get to the root I think
you've got it you've got a help you've
got to help you right that's what you
that's what you need like that's where
the hurt is that's where the depression
comes from that's where the loss of
meaning in your life comes from because
like meaning was taken away from you had
plenty of meaning until one day you
didn't and all you've managed to do is
distract yourself and find relief
through distraction and you're good at
what you do and you're ambitious and
you're intelligent so sometimes you can
trick yourself into thinking that a
distraction is purpose but it's not and
I've questioned ya know how did your
purpose come to be wanting to help
people I know I'm curious to know
Christine are you talking about mine
yeah yeah so my story is kind of funny
so I played way too many video games in
high school I mean it probably as a kid
even before that but it really started
to become a problem in high school and
then after after my first year of
college I had less than a two point
and then for the next year I also like
kind of failed out of college I was on
academic probation and my dad who's a
really fantastic guy was like
something's got to change and they've
tried everything they'd like punish me
like sent me to a military school and
like all this kind of crap and I just
wasn't getting my shit together and he
said so you have to go to India and I
said okay so the summer after my
sophomore year I remember I still
remember cuz my memory is clear about
this - we were kind of talking like late
into the night and this conversation was
different because like usually when I
was I would like fail stuff like they
would yell right like I'd get punished
or they'd like be like you know I'm
fucking up but this time my dad was just
sort of not really resigned but it was
like a really like problem-solving
conversation and we kind of like I felt
like we were on the same team and he was
like look we got to do something about
this because this is not working so I
went to India or 20 or 20 or so you're
20 yeah so 20 20 or 21 and I went to
India and I stayed at this place called
an ashram and an ashram is like a
monastery so I spent three months
studying yoga and meditation and
absolutely loved it and what I loved
about it is that we we study all kinds
of stuff we study physics we study
mathematics we study history we study
sociology we don't study ourselves like
even if you study psychology it's about
like experiments about other people it's
not like how you work it's not like why
do I lack meaning in life like how can I
actually find the answer to that
where does meaning come from how does
our mind function so in your case the
root of your depression is something
called a some scar which I'll explain
later and until that some scar gets
dissolved you're gonna continue to be
depressed and this is why you can have
periods of like distraction and whatnot
and you can fit clinical criteria for
depression and all that good stuff but
the end of the day you have this some
scar that formed the day that you saw
that plus sign or maybe the next day
when you realize that when you went home
I think the some scar formed the day
that you actually realized which which
was your older brother guy or Gary guy
so one day you actually realize that
like guy is never gonna be home when you
come home and that's I think when this
um scar form
and so it was a system to understand
like who you are and how you work like
where desires come from where did
desires go to like all this different
stuff about the self and I loved it and
so I decided to become a monk I went to
my teachers and I said hey I want to
become a monk and they said that's
fantastic come back when you're 30 and
finish a doctoral degree and we'll take
you so I went back to the US and decided
okay if I want to become a monk then I
have to finish college and then I have
to like get a doctoral degree so but you
okay but you had a purpose so you
probably did it yeah you finished
college so I finished college every
summer I went back and studied in India
over December break so I had spent like
four months a year in India for the next
seven years with the goal of becoming a
monk ended up meeting my wife got
confused because I was like oh I want to
become a monk but I'm really into this
girl and all this stuff so decided your
mics cutting in and out a little bit I'm
following the whole conversation I don't
know why it's probably cuz I'm maybe the
thresholds a little so met my wife and a
couple years later decided that like the
monk path wasn't the right path for me
or more importantly realized that you
don't have to be to be a monk to be
spiritual then ultimately being a monk
is not what you wear it's actually all
about your internal experience so the
way that you deal with your own desires
the way that you deal with your own
ambitions the way you deal with your own
ego and that for me still coming out Oh
weird sorry is it cutting out for
everyone
cutting out for everyone right oh it's
no it's the discord people are saying oh
weird maybe we can change the server
we're on or something
I'll try to change it we're on us-south
let's try us alright and then we're back
mister escort okay so um decided not to
become a monk because ultimately I
realized like you can be a monk monk is
like like it was for me it was all about
ego it was all about like Oh like I was
a failure at life so like the way that
is waged my ego was by saying oh like
regular life isn't for me so I didn't
have to fail if I became a monk because
I'm truly spiritual and I'm not for this
material world it's all a bunch of
bullshit ultimately I realized that if I
are you sure yeah you think it was much
thinking you were trying to escape the
chance of a loot Lee absolutely okay
right because it's it's it's easy to
like escape from your failure in college
if you were not meant for like the
material world and I was like better
than that I was meant for the spiritual
world because I'm deeply spiritual and
I'm not gonna run in this rat race and I
don't care about grades and all these
fucking peons out there that are living
a material life I'm better than them I'm
gonna become a monk then I realize that
was a load of bullshit that that's yoga
that there are two kinds of ego there's
regular ego and then there's the subtler
more devious ego which is the ego of
having no ego
look at how spiritual I am you know is
that that that whole like so ended up
doing neuroscience research so I've
always been kind of a skeptic and was
curious about like what was happening in
my brain when I was learning these
things so started doing neuroscience
research ended up going to medical
school and then decided that I wanted to
become a psychiatrist and that I was
going to incorporate like some of these
Eastern perspectives on mental health
- like psychiatric care and teaching
people how to meditate and all that good
stuff and then it's funny so how tarmo
works because then life sort of threw me
an interesting curveball which was while
I was training I started asking some of
my like professors and stuff so I
trained at Mass General Hospital and
MacLaine which are both Harvard Medical
School teaching affiliates in the number
one psychiatric hospital and all this
good stuff no more in hospital in the
country all that jazz so I was
surrounded by a lot of brilliant people
and I
started asking them I was like what do
you guys think about video game
addiction and no one has a fucking clue
right so if we think about the leaders
in the field in the fields in general if
we think about like leaders in the
fields of like finance like world
leaders leaders in the field of medicine
they're like all in their 50s at a
minimum and so I realized like when one
of my supervisors who's a brilliant
psychoanalyst said yeah I think the
reason that people play too many video
games is the same reason they get
tattoos I was like lady what the fuck
are you talking about she has no idea
and that's when it hit me that like no
one in psychiatry like has played a
video game like all these Chiefs of
Psychiatry and you know like head of the
department of psychiatry at Harvard
Medical School and like Yale and Hopkins
and Harvard like none of these people
make sense yeah they just they've never
played a video game so realize that like
oh it's got to be me because who else is
gonna do it right and I think like
that's what's special about you're
nodding right why are you nodding I'm
nodding because this is a nice sense of
purpose for you to have and you can
relate the people who play games because
you play games yourself I think the
other reason being is because you get it
right it's gotta be you reckful oh it's
gotta be me know something about you
talking about you and your MMO it's
gotta be you oh no I was thinking it's
gotta be you yeah but I'm saying that
like the same guys yeah yeah so you're
nodding with understanding so if you go
back and you watch this video
you're passively listening until I said
that I was anyway that's my possibly
listening possibly listening it sounds
like I wasn't really immersed but I was
really immersed yes IIIi don't passive
listening is not you weren't paying
attention but a passive just means I
wasn't yeah giving back body like yeah
so I think there's something about that
statement with which resonated with you
which caused you to to have some more
body language it could be again this
Rubik's Cube thing where I'm trying to
explain something that happened and it's
not accurate I mean at the end of the
day I could be over-interpret if you
haven't seen that video you need to see
it it's it's crazy
corpus callosum people have their corpus
callosum severed do all kinds of cool
things
so then I about in September of 2018 I
guess it's a little over a year ago I
actually made the mistake of just
randomly posting on Reddit and I said
I'm a psychiatrist that's interested in
video game addiction ask me anything so
the post ended up hitting the front page
and I started getting like inundated
with calls
so like I'd get like people didn't know
how to find me so I started getting like
paged I have a pager right because
doctors have pagers nowadays like it's
Austin drug dealers were the only ones
left with pagers I don't even know if
drug dealers do anymore yeah so so I
started getting paged and people were
calling me and emailing me and I
realized like there's just no way that I
can help like I'd been working with
gamers for years but there's just no way
that I can help like every person out
there and I've got to do like I've got
people more and so I'd sort of set
myself up to kind of be like the next
Deepak Chopra or something like that I
was like very like ambitious and and you
know I had a lot of like in this way
right now
you're a o e helping people absolutely
that's exactly what this one yeah it's
AoE right yeah so I realized that I
can't like single-target this shit it's
just not gonna work like yeah after the
AMA I probably got hundreds if not
thousands of requests for help and and
like from all over that all over the
fucking place like some dude reached out
to me from Singapore and was like hey
can you come to Singapore and like talk
to us cuz we're struggling and I was
like sure but I don't know how or why
and and just gets all these random so
most even more bizarre is I got a I got
an email a couple weeks ago from two
psychologists that worked for the
Serbian military and they're like hey
can you help us like you teach us how to
treat video game addiction and I was
like yeah I can try so you're absolutely
right that it needs to be a OE right but
like not even just a OE and like one
like I need like a global AOE like
server whine like a surfer wide virus is
what I need
yeah YouTube yeah so we have YouTube and
twitch and that's why I started
streaming so I started streaming about
two and a half months ago and you know
was advised against doing that by a lot
of people in like many of my colleagues
and stuff like that because though I can
get sued and all that good stuff and and
talked to attorneys and things like that
so hopefully I don't get sued so I'm not
really just delivering medical care but
you know what happens if someone comes
on stream and then kills themselves or
something like that I mean I you know I
think at the end it I'll try not to kill
myself anytime soon for you yeah thank
you I appreciate that I'm serious no
problem I actually I haven't thought
about killing myself since I think yeah
I believe that if you if you do happen
to have those thoughts again feel free
to reach out you have my discord and
yeah I will say you know you're you can
die but not until you've done what you
need to for that five-year-old like
unless you do that first you're just
gonna have to come back and fix that
problem later death is not I mean so in
my religion and through some of my
experiences through meditation I really
do understand I believe in things like
reincarnation and and I think the trick
but yet going this is where you're gonna
what's the word
you're gonna divide your audience that's
fine yeah I know so I so I I also say a
lot of things on the stream that are
based in science this is not one of them
so I try to draw a distinction between
you know what I believe but I think
ultimately like once you meditate you
start to have experiences and then like
I can't shake I don't I don't logically
believe in reincarnation it's based on
experience so I there are certain
techniques of meditation and stuff where
you can remember your past lives and
things like that and I've just seen too
much consciousness is pretty weird
absolutely I didn't put it past
consciousness that you know I mean how
did it just happen in this organism or
in that organism so so uh it could it
could be that there's no organism at all
there's making shit up
there's a lot of weird shit I think you
know I don't scientifically believe in
reincarnation I don't think it makes
sense logically but like once you have
some experience it just it just feels so
real is the best way that I can put it
is it a possible hallucination of my
mind absolutely but that's a
conversation for a different day kind of
how I got to my thermo so now I realize
that like they're gamers out there that
need help and that the number of gamers
who need help is like astronomical that
for the first time mental health has
surpassed cardiovascular disease and
cancer as the number one cause of
morbidity and mortality in the United
States that for the firt you have a
little bit of a tick tick there you well
like searching for information in your
head or something like uh stats like
that you you roll your eyes a little I'm
just telling you you probably don't want
to have it yeah why not um why not why
don't you want to have this tick I mean
it's up to you yeah maybe you do I don't
care but I'm just I was just letting you
know yeah that's okay I tend to me I
have a lot of facial expressions that I
that I tend to be pretty transparent
about and if I'm scanning my memory I
think it's fine for people to understand
that I'm scanning my memory
we're not playing poker true I do play
some poker so I wouldn't want to do yeah
it's it's in my professional interest to
actually show what's on my face not
conceal it so I tend to be different
from other psychiatrists in that way in
the sense that like a lot of people try
to be a blank slate I just show what's
on my face I see the blank slate does
suck I've talked to a lot of people in
Slate I think it's stupid I mean okay
actually that's kind of judgmental I I
just don't think it's for me I'll put it
that way I think some people you know I
get that they want to do with that we
could say stupid that's fun so yeah we
were talking about her money yeah so I
mean now I I realize like I just need to
help people and that mental health is
getting worse in this country and I
think part of the reason for that so the
other interesting thing that's happened
recently is life expectancy between
ages of 25 and 64 has gone down for the
first time suicide suicide is a big part
of it suicide is increased by 50% in
teenagers over the last decade
so like Justin it makes a lot of sense
they're constantly comparing themselves
other people on yeah so I think
technology and stuff absolutely so
social media has really started to prey
on certain like aspects of our
psychology that were kind of unaware of
and so my sense is that like the field
of mental health needs to be addressed
way more quickly and are in a way
broader sense and what I mean by this is
like people need to understand some
fundamentals about how their mind works
like I think it's infuriating that you
go to a psychologist and you ask them
how does my mind work and they're not
gonna give you an answer like there are
answers I think there are very simple
answers like I think your problem is
that you have a some scar most people's
problems are that you have this kind of
ball of undigested emotion that lurks
beneath the surface and exerts its
influence on your mind it's like you've
you've had a debuff since the age of six
in that deep office no she's called
depression and there are some times
where you can get temporary buffs like
learning how to play guitar or like I
like that elegy yeah and so you've just
got this fucking debuff and the thing is
you had the debuff for so long that you
think it's like it's debuff sucks by the
way absolutely I hate and and and you
think it's some part of like you think
you you got it during character creation
you think it's you right because when
you get diagnosed with type two bipolar
that's like during character creation
like you picked a trait to give you
yourself extra character points and
you're like I'm picking type two bipolar
and I get five more character points and
I'm gonna I'm gonna pick like good it
Wow
who the fuck would pick that yeah but
but the cool thing is it's not it's not
static right I believe and I could be
wrong and and maybe you're stuck with
this for the rest of your life but I
think you can get significantly better
and I think it's like right beneath the
surface man like I'm good I'm starting
to believe it I'm sorry I'm good at my
job but I mean like 15 minutes dude 15
minutes is what it took and it's just
right there and it's so big
that's why it's so easy to get to
because you have this whole you have
this whole like iceberg
and it's just like right beneath the
surface and if you if you resolve
something it's not just about grief it's
not just losing your brother but it's
like shattering your perception of like
what life is about like life became
meaningless to you after that because
that's what you that's what life was
about and then suddenly like that's no
longer on the table you give a kid a
purpose in life you give his life like
because that's the thing about the child
right it's such a simple and pure
purpose and then you yank it away it's
not complicated it's not complex it
doesn't have different shades so it can
be shattered in an instant and then it's
completely broken if you lose your
purpose at the age of 30 that's
different because you have different
dimensions of your life at that point
you have something to fall back on but
you didn't have anything to fall back on
because that's all it was
and then your other brothers say it in
his room all the time
mm-hmm right not his fault was just I
realize my my just was thinking of my
parents are probably watching this
that's fine so that's interesting yeah I
mean they're welcome to come on to but
that's it's nice anyway yeah and and I
don't think it's anyone's fault right
and there's there's other stuff here
which if you want to have a conversation
one day about forgiveness and whether
your brother deserves forgiveness or
whether you've forgiven him that's
probably an important crime oh I
definitely know I don't blame him at all
okay because I know what it's like to go
through day by day having no desires and
suffering the whole time
and for it you just want it to be over
yeah and I don't I don't blame her yeah
not even a little bit so questions
reckful other people know you did a
really good job you're you're good at
what you do what do we do good I'm happy
to hear you say that but what did we do
you just talked me through my problems
and helped me find them okay nice
I made some realizations about myself
and it gives me a little more purpose in
the future good a lot a lot a lot of
yeah so I just want you to remember that
when you feel depressed like it's not
that those feelings aren't real and
there's a lot of science that suggests
that it's not just to some scar right
because you have a family history of it
there's probably some genetic component
to it there's something going on in your
neurotransmitters which is absolutely
real you know but these are just sort of
different like dimensions of the self
and so you can have that biological
stuff going on and you can sort of have
what I would call sort of like the roots
of your depression or spiritual they're
not even psychological and that you have
you have an unfulfilled governme you
have something that you owe to the the
six year old you and all of the kids who
could be that six year old you and you
have to help the world become a place
where like that kid like you want to
build the safety net that you need it
yes I was gonna sorry I was thinking
there was a period of time where I
started meditating when I was in Japan
yeah and I remember feeling just like
serenity yep and I wanted you to tell me
a little bit about meditation yeah great
so let's talk about meditation
so what's meditation reckful well now
that putting it in the perspective of
what you were telling me earlier I guess
I like it cuz it takes me out of myself
yep
because I'm not myself at the time yeah
so I want y'all to understand so like we
have a mind and we think we are a mind
but we are not our mind our mind is just
a part of us right like if you think
about you can observe your own thoughts
absolutely and then you're the observer
it kind of it's kind of mine fucking
actually to think it is my fucking your
if you're observing the thoughts yeah so
you can't you can't the observer cannot
be the observed so you can look at
yourself in a mirror but then what
you're actually looking at is the mirror
right you're not actually looking at
yourself so the Yogi's realize that
there's this thing called consciousness
which is actually outside of the mind
and sometimes when you meditate you
enter this state of mind where you have
no thoughts and no real perception of
time because time also exists within the
mind and that the more that you step out
of your mind the closer you get to the
most basic version of yourself which is
what consciousness is and meditation is
the systematic practice of stepping
outside of your mind and existing in a
conscious state without the activity of
the mind and we tend to associate those
two but there's a very simple
understanding of the states of
consciousness go ahead ask ask I was
just gonna say we can agree on
everything else without agreeing that
time exists in the mind right
uh so one of the hallmarks of the
meditative state is you lose the
perception of time yeah okay I mean
psilocybin - yeah right so that so
that's because the perception of time
comes from within the mind so for
example like when your mind yeah the
perception of time is yeah from
consciousness from consciousness from
the mind right so so let's let's go
through this what do you mean exactly so
first thing to understand is like we
think about consciousness and mind as is
one thing but let's understand that you
can have a state where you're conscious
without mind unconscious with mind
conscious with mind in unconscious
without mind there's like a two-by-two
table
okay I need explanation yeah so let's
start with this so when you're when
you're sleeping are you conscious is
your mind active yes yes when no it's
not okay so let's think about that when
you're dreaming ah beautiful right but
you're not always dreaming so but I
think even when you're not dreaming
you're repeating events of the day like
let's say you play piano and then you go
to sleep sometimes you'll wake up and
you'll know how to play it better
because I think while you're sleeping
your mind repeats it over well no no so
what you're talking about is memory
consolidation which happens during sleep
although I don't know if memory
consolidation is an activity of the mind
or not but if we look at sleep you don't
know if memory consolidation is an
active mind activity within the amygdala
the amygdala is activating or something
yeah so your brain is not your mind so
your brain is doing all kinds of shit
when you sleep but that's not mind what
do you mean by money great so we're
gonna understand this all right all
right okay so this is the first thing to
understand it's like if we think about
mine so mind is like thoughts its
sensations its sensory perceptions
that's mine
okay so thoughts in sensory experiences
let's just call that mind so in sleep is
that the what to call this something
cortex well it depends I mean each the
cortex has different fields for
different perceptions so there's a
somatosensory cortex there's an auditory
cortex there's an olfactory cortex there
lots of different cortices so all the
cortex combined is that mine no so the
brain is different from the mind ok so
remember that the yoga I'm having yellow
so we're we're good so let's take a step
back from neuroscience for a minute and
understand experience right so we can
talk about neuroscience and what the
different parts of the brain's brain
does but let's take let's take the
perspective perspective a yogi or an
individual so we're gonna talk about
stuff that's not science but that anyone
who's watching can understand about
their mind so the way in which we
experience it is what we're focusing on
we could talk about the science
separately ok ok so when you're sleeping
you can be dreaming or not dreaming
right so when you're not dreaming you're
not conscious you're not aware and your
mind isn't doing anything particular
like you're not thinking and when you
dream like you you acknowledge the state
of dreaming and not dreaming or like
fundamentally different yes No let's
start there I'll acknowledge that except
that they're fundamentally different but
I maybe this thing of organizing the
memories could possibly be similar to
dreaming and we just don't remember it
yeah possible yeah so there may be other
functions that were not aware of
I completely agree so like there's a lot
of stuff that our brain does that may be
the dividing line that I'm setting is
not as simple as I think ok I'll
acknowledge that and we can move on so
but essentially like when we're dreaming
we're not really it's sort of activity
of the mind without awareness so we're
not really like conscious but our mind
is still like it's like running a movie
in our head the other thing is there's
also this state called daydreaming and
daydreaming is when we're awake but
we're not actually aware like when
you're daydreaming you quote-unquote
zone out right so that's actually sate
of conscious a lack of consciousness or
no consciousness
with activity in the mind daydreaming is
a lack of consciousness with activity
yeah that's why we call it daydreaming
intuitively we understand that that
state of mind is similar to what happens
in sleep which is why we use the same
word we use the word dream because any
human being can okay yeah but I maybe I
would think that we're still conscious
and it's just a different type sure yeah
I don't know if I would call it fine so
a different type is fine I'll take that
right so like that like okay there's
something fundamentally different
between what you're doing right now in
your head and daydreaming agreed agree
so what I would say you have right now
is consciousness or awareness with the
activity of mind
so they're both turned on right now when
you're in a coma or you're not dreaming
they're both turned off when you have
dreaming your mind is on but your
awareness is off because you're not
aware like you're zoned out but your
mind is still doing Shannon okay hmm
neuroscience stuff we can talk about
later then we come to the last state
which is a state of consciousness
without mind this is the state of
meditation this is the state that
psilocybin sometimes helps you get to
right so the simplest way to understand
this reckful yeah go foreign without the
mind is the thought yes
so without yep we're just gonna show you
God and we're still conscious no I get
it yeah no we're gonna show you we're
gonna what you're right about so I think
we can talk about this shit until we're
blue in the face but I think the
simplest way to help people understand
is to actually enter that state of mind
and then you guys will know what I'm
talking about
so can we meditate yeah fuck yeah sit up
straight alright okay so someone's
asking someone's commenting about lucid
dreaming so lucid dreaming is a great
example of consciousness active while
you're dreaming right cuz you're aware
mm-hmm okay so reckful do this open your
eyes mmm can you guys do this right hand
I'm gonna do that
yeah but
okay so we're gonna take our thumb and
we're gonna block are right nostril
block are right now oh I'm doing the
other hand then okay wait you wanted me
to do fit oh my god my autism is showing
people say I am in this at this so
breathe in
I'm not autistic guys okay so okay lock
your right nostril and B then use the
other two fingers to block the opposite
nostril and then breathe out let go of
the thumb and then breathe out breathe
in through the same nostril switch read
out in through the same nostril switch
out in okay I was conscious but not
thinking stop just keep doing it you
just started thinking again I know I'm
just I I realized that I was good we'll
talk more okay so right now I don't like
the nose thing I prefer to just breathe
in think about that but it's harder oh
you don't like the nose thing because
both of your nose do you have a deviated
septum no just I feel like I've to blow
my nose now no that's okay one of your
sides is gonna be more open than the
other that's normal
which side is more open mmm this one
right now that's left okay I look okay
so do so okay we're gonna try this
because I want people at home do this
because this is a good technique for
people at home you don't have to do it
but so block the right nostril and BRE
then I'll do it I'll do
when you take a full breath switch and
breathe out in through the same nostril
switch out in switch out in switch out
in
switch out now remember that you breathe
in through the same nostril that you
breathe out before you switch and now
continue at your own pace
close your eyes we'll practice for about
three minutes
go ahead and finish the breath that
you're on let your eyes main closed just
relax
now put your palms together in front of
you and start to rub feel the warmth of
the friction and then cut them over your
eyes take a deep breath in and as you
exhale slowly open your eyes when
they're fully open go ahead and relax
that facial expression means you did it
right yeah how does your chest feel I
wish you how would you describe how
would you describe how your loosen happy
and good is a beautiful way to describe
it okay it's beautiful right okay so
reckful you don't have to be an expert
to be right about what you think right
because I'm getting the sense then
you're competent in some areas and your
confidence you're confident that you're
competent in those areas and outside of
those areas you may be feel like you're
not that competent but you're good dude
yeah you're sure you're good trust
yourself I'm okay with I'm okay with
being unconfident in the areas that I
don't know well I don't mind it yeah I
think it's fine it's just like you
thought it was fine to do the eye roll
I like that I'm not if I state something
as a fact then not that it is a fact but
I'm Way more certain of it in my head
than most people will have to be certain
of something to stay something as if I
great so
what was your mind doing during that
practice just now like not oh it was in
the practice it was off yeah but you
were conscious right so what you
experienced is what I would call
consciousness without the mind and maybe
your mind activated here or there like
it would have a thought yeah that's
that's normal
but I I think this actually helps this
this whole play helps with you stopping
the mind from activating yes keeps you
focused yes yeah that's what it is
exactly right so the attention required
to maintain the hand business is enough
at like of a pole to keep your mind from
getting bored that's why I like this
technique because if you just sit there
you tell people to observe their breath
if they have thought loops which is this
kind of momentum of the mind you need
something to break the thought loops the
cool thing is that if you if you get
good at this technique and you start to
enter a depressive thought loop you
could do the technique and it'll shut
off the mind and then the thought loop
will go away because the thought loop
exists within the mind i I found for me
instead of this when I get distracted I
and I remember then I account a point
just like a game is I'm like okay one
every time I remember and also it's
enough of a bowl so that that's what you
need right a pull a pull all so there
are a lot of different techniques of
meditation all they are is a pull the
sanskrit word for this is da da da da
daaaa means focus and if you do the
Tarna correctly if you do the focusing
practice then you enter a state of mind
called Gyan Gyan is not something you do
it's something that happens to you it's
like going to bed and falling asleep you
can't so I'll tell you if you got sorry
a few years ago I thought this was all
bullshit but then I don't know why I
thought that because actually people
have been meditating and practicing and
learning it for such a long period of
time 2500 years yeah
it makes sense that it does something
yeah but I definitely thought it was the
beginning I thought it was bullshit too
so like I grew up Indian and so had
plenty of opportunities to learn yoga
and meditation went to like a yoga class
when I was like eight and thought it was
a load of bullshit even went to like you
know because and what I really loved
about going to India is I found people I
would ask challenging questions and they
could fucking answer because they knew
what they were talking about yeah
instead of the people like in my
hometown which had like learning this
stuff and really didn't understand what
they were saying I think it's completely
reasonable to actually think it's
bullshit I think it's completely
reasonable to think reincarnation is
bullshit - I think what happened do you
know why I brought I do you know why I
brought up thinking about it well why
would you think I brought it up
because you don't think it's bullshit
now no cuz I was thinking that a lot of
people watching will think it's bullshit
and then that it's relatable for that us
to have thought it was bullshit before
and then yeah so I think that's great so
that's why I mentioned the reincarnation
for the same reason right so I think
that the main thing to understand about
meditation this is why I teach
meditation on stream because you could
talk about it like I don't care like
whether whether I believe in
reincarnation or I think meditation is
helpful or you think it's helpful is
completely right I don't believe in
reincarnation it doesn't know I said
yeah no I mean I think it's reasonable
to not believe in reincarnation I think
it's like that's a scientific and
logical perspective because we have no
evidence of it right so the whole goal
of this is like if you really want to
understand the benefits of meditation
and what the nature of your mind is you
actually have to sit and do it because
we can talk back and forth about
consciousness and mind but the second
you meditate it took you like two
breaths to be like okay my mind Chandra
Sheriff yeah because the whole time
we're talking about it our mind is not
absolutely so we don't rewrite it yeah
we don't experience and so now we also
kind of see like when you're playing
music when you're doing photography now
we come full circle when you're playing
music when you're doing photography even
when you're playing PvP and wow like you
stopped being you write for yeah I'm the
mercy Europe you know experienced
reckful disappears and you're just one
with the experience when you do
psilocybin the the barriers of the
identity fall apart when you're
depressed you're in your own head you're
stuck there
the thoughts are constant you're stuck
inside yourself you're stuck inside
yourself stuck stuck stuck stuck stuck
stuck you can't get away oh should I eat
should I not eat III me me me it doesn't
matter what I do it doesn't matter what
someone says people think I'm a piece of
shit all of those thoughts me i me i me
I I'm worthless I'm worthless I'm
worthless I'm worthless I'm worthless
IIIi I step outside of it learn to step
outside yeah I I have recently started
to yeah it's nice yeah
and also when I had those experiences in
the past so yeah with photography and
Wow and nationals : yeah sometimes
relationships yep right and yeah
definitely actually yeah but sometimes
relationships don't do in your mind
right can go either way
yes it goes both ways yeah hmm I'm glad
you weren't against the psilocybin yeah
I mean nobody a lot of people yeah so I
think that like you know drugs people I
get questions about drugs a lot and I
think that you know you just I think a
lot of people don't understand like we
don't understand what stuff is doing to
our brain so I think you've got to be
careful like for example a lot of people
think like oh marijuana doesn't make
people stupid no it doesn't make people
stupid what what it does is hampers your
motivational circuitry that's like worse
and I think that if you're that actually
is what I think if your brain is
developing you shouldn't pollute it with
shit like I think if you want to do I
mean I'm not advocating drug use but I
think that the damage that's done to a
developing brain because it's developing
his way worse than what's done to a
fully formed ring okay and and I think
that these substances like I don't know
if people know this but like Yogi's and
stuff even Shiva who's sort of the first
Yogi's like a Hindu deity but presumably
was a man at some point he was just like
a meditator like he smoked pot like
because that's what Yogi's some of the
Yogi's and some of the traditions of
meditation use but I think that all of
this stuff should be done under the
guidance of a guru or done like it's not
just sitting around
hi because generally speaking I don't
know many people who are soup well I
mean actually I do know a lot of people
who were successful and get high on a
regular basis but I know many more
people who smoke pot and or nothing
and so I think that you know all
substances have a role nothing is
nothing is really a judgment sure turn
though sure I think what it what does it
mean to be nothing you know I mean maybe
they're enjoying if they're enjoying
their life it's okay I I don't think so
you don't think oh yeah I don't think
enjoyment I don't think enjoyment is a
meaningful life I think if you're living
your community then for some people it
might be the I mean everyone is entitled
to their opinion but if they're enjoying
it and with a group of people what if
they're all enjoying it together
so I think you think it individually is
fine I think as long as you're
fulfilling your Dharma if you're doing
your duty to like yourself and to other
people and you're making the world a
better place then you can do whatever
the fuck you want to in your free time
but you should you should have a life of
Dharma where you fulfill your Dharma and
I don't think that hedonism or just the
sake of like living a life of pleasure
is like I'd say that that life is
nothing okay
is that judgmental absolutely I don't
claim to be non judgement oh no I'm fine
with you think I'm fine with you
thinking that yeah
I'm not completely against hedonism I
would say let's say we found a way to
manipulate our brain chemistry to be
happy all the time and we all wanted to
do it I wouldn't be against it I mean
our goals suddenly would be different
maybe maybe our civilization wouldn't
advance as much as it is but well I mean
there there is a way to be happy all the
time
so I advocate for people trying to be
happy all the time that that state I'm
not saying there isn't I'm you know it'd
be more readily achievable if we
manipulated our neurotransmitters or
something yeah maybe with yeah yeah I
mean I've there are a lot of concepts
there that I think need to be dug into
more but maybe not that we have time for
today I'm wondering do people have
questions yeah yeah oh yeah people have
questions in answer yeah let me see if
there's I have like a question bond but
it seems like I'm gonna go eat soon and
like probably like 10 minutes or
something I had a really good time
talking I want to hear you answer the
questions actually I want to but I don't
see oh by the way his how do I um can
somebody help me tee up questions oh
here we go
somebody help him please his stream is
healthy gamer underscore GG people are
linking it my mods are linking it in the
chat so people are is there okay there's
a lot of stuff okay so what is the
fulfilling life is there a way to be
happy all the time there's a quiet
debate on when the brains develop I have
heard many different when is the same
brain fully developed did it work you
won't just okay okay look let's okay
there are a lot of questions about flow
in the zone and being happy all the time
and can you get addicted to meditation I
think is what one of the questions is so
let's start with like so meditation you
step outside of your mind and it can be
relieving the other cool thing about
meditation though is that I think it
lets you understand the other patterns
within yourself that keep you stuck so I
don't think that you can really get
addicted to meditation because I think
when you meditate a lot you're gonna
start to process things that you don't
through other forms of distraction
that's why I think meditation is o P
because sure it helps you feel better in
the moment but it's not like getting
high because getting high isn't gonna
like people think they have a lot of
realizations when they get high because
the
perceives that it understands things but
then you wake up the next day and your
life isn't actually changed my
overwhelming experience
in my own life and also teaching
meditation in my day job is that when
people start to meditate regularly they
change like the way that they view the
world changes the way that they interact
with the world changes there's
overwhelming neuro scientific evidence
that that the brain changes when you
meditate I don't know of go ahead I was
just gonna say I really do believe and
since I've been changing psilocybin
sniffing psilocybin is different so
there there's a set of naga for Academy
and psilocybin ayahuasca ibogaine that I
do believe can can transform people so
there's no there's overwhelming and not
overwhelming there's very promising
preliminary evidence that some of these
substances can like profoundly change
people for the positive MDMA is another
one so there are trials that have pilot
studies that have been done I'm doing a
for PTSD and psilocybin for treatment
refractory depression I also I mean I'm
an addiction psychiatrist in my day job
so like I had a patient who used opiates
for many many he's been using substance
some some substance or another since he
was a teenager and then used some of
these substances and had some really
powerful transformative experiences that
I can't relate because they're very
specific but just weird like
supernatural like metaphysical like soul
body reincarnation level shit and he is
like a transformed person in his sober
for the first time in his life for like
eight months like since he was a
teenager started experimenting with
drugs when he was a teenager and has
finally stopped using him
the really mind-blowing thing about him
is that when he went to this treatment
center that uses this stuff after he was
telling me about some of his
transformative experiences and then like
I thought that he wouldn't continue
treatment because he felt cured and then
he blew my mind when he made this
statement he was like yeah I felt like
there was a spiritual route to my
addiction which has been cured but
there's also a psychology to that and I
need to work on that so continued with
addiction treatment in
with actually like a gung-ho inist ever
seen him do before it's really
fascinating so I think a lot of these
mind-altering substances do have roles
in terms of like helping people but
you're cutting I don't know I do believe
that they have roles in helping people I
just don't know you know I think it's it
needs to be explored okay so people are
asking about being happy all the time
yeah so I think what happens is like
there's a state called enlightenment
which is something that people who
meditate very regularly do like I mean
very few people have attained
enlightenment but enlightenment is sort
of like this background level of like
peace and calm which you can cultivate
over time which starts to affect like
the rest of your life so when you
meditate for a regular very regular
period of time there are some
neuroscience changes the most prominent
of which is probably frontal lobe
inhibition of your amygdala and limbic
system which okay which lets you just be
like more chilled out and yeah I was
restarting I was changing a server
because it I didn't want to but it kept
it in interrupting yeah it should be
good night yes so you told him what the
problem is so someone's asking you told
them what the problem was but how do you
fix it what do you think reckful what do
you think about what we talked about
today I I think you made it pretty
obvious I just pursue my purpose my
meaning there was a word you kept Dharma
d-h Dharma yeah is that okay
I think that's part of it and I think
the other thing is that that I think
hopefully
reckful you understand that like this
has a root somewhere inside you and I
think we got pretty close to the root
today which is why you had sort of this
powerful kind of experience and just
understanding that there's a route to
like your suffering and understanding
that that route is legitimate right you
didn't just get sure you may have gotten
the short straw in life in terms of
having a family history of depression
and having like a biological
predisposition but ultimately I think a
lot of your suffering or your lack of
meaning like started at a particular
point and that understanding can
actually be like the first step of a
very important journey and I don't know
exactly where that journey leads I say
if you have a therapist you can work
with them otherwise I mean I think
reckful I have faith in you just that
through reflection and through work and
if you start meditating regularly you're
gonna understand this on your own
without anyone's help
although help will accelerate the
process but I mean I think just
continued I like to yeah I think I think
you've accomplished amazing things and
that you will continue to do so and that
when you put your mind to something it
sounds like you're pretty fucking good
at it so I think this is just what you
need to turn your mind to when you're
ready to write Thanks
thanks for today by the way thanks for
coming on I really appreciate this cause
yeah there was uh this was a this one
day was a important moment in my life
and thank you thank you for letting me
do my Dharma this is why I do what I do
man and now you go do what you need to
do and go eat something first okay yeah
thanks a lot
oh I'll see you uh yeah oh you got a lot
of hearts in the chest yeah let me just
switch this but thank you very much okay
