The Chinese Communist Party
is trying to undermine Taiwan’s democracy
But it might be Taiwan
That helps democracy come to China
This is China Uncensored, I’m Chris Chappell
once again coming to you from Taiwan.
We are just days away from Taiwan’s elections.
Taiwan is dominated by two major political
parties:
the DPP and the KMT.
But more and more third parties
have also been making their mark.
I sat down with Huang Kuo-chang,
a legislator from the New Power Party,
to talk about how Taiwan’s third parties
can change democracy in Taiwan,
and even in mainland China.
Thanks for joining me today.
My pleasure.
So what would the Chinese communist party
like to see happen in this election?
I think that they want a KMT's candidate,
Mr. Han,
to win the presidential election, but as far
as I know,
predicting from where we stand right now is
not going to happen.
Well, why is the Communist Party interested
in
the KMT candidate winning the election?
There is no doubt that a KMT candidate
is very pro-Beijing government.
More than that, they keep silent when a political
leader
should speak out where the Beijing government
pressure the human rights in China
and the KMT candidate is quite cooperating
with the Beijing government
with all kinds of political agenda they are
pushing against Taiwan.
Can you give me an example of an instance
where they have [crosstalk]?
See what happened in Hong Kong this past summer.
I think all people around the world,
they support Hong Kong people's right
to fight for their basic human rights.
But a KMT candidate behaved quite awkward
during that period.
They tried to say something
but they have a great pressure from the Beijing
government.
So as a result, they kept silent.
That is not acceptable for the Taiwan people
because we have been there,
we fought for our democracy,
we fought for our freedom for the past 40
years
and the KMT's candidate quite cooperate with
the Beijing government.
I think that is not acceptable for the Taiwan
people because that is not our best interest.
You see that as going against Taiwan's principles
of democracy.
Sure.
Is the Chinese Communist Party doing anything
to ensure that its interests come to fruition
in the election?
I think from what we saw from the last election.
I mean last year's local election,
the Beijing government tried their best
to penetrate our democratic system
to influence the final result.
Actual election interference.
Yes, and-
Do you think that's happening again this time?
Yes, they tried their best to influence the
result of our election
in order to fit their own interest,
but that was not acceptable for the Taiwanese
people
because our democracy should be decided by
Taiwanese people
not by the Beijing government.
We understand the cross-strait relation is
quite important.
Everyone wants peace, but we put human rights
above all.
That is what we stand for.
As a result, I think Taiwanese people
are growing stronger and stronger
to immute from those kinds of influence from
the Beijing government.
Well, I know you mentioned the Hong Kong protest.
How do you think that has affected politics
in Taiwan?
It has a huge political impact on politics
in Taiwan
because Taiwanese people observe what will
happen
if we accept One Country, Two Systems
as pushed by the Beijing government.
Hong Kong used to be a society with legal
order
that is why many foreigners loved to invest
in Hong Kong.
But since the Beijing government
tried to interfere with the public order in
Hong Kong,
many people are observing the legal order
is collapsing in Hong Kong.
That is not only bad for Hong Kong people's
human rights
but also hurting their economy.
From Taiwanese people that kind of scene
as we observe this past summer in Hong Kong
is terrifying.
Most Taiwanese people cannot accept what that
is going to become,
what we are going to become.
Now, it's interesting you mentioned
the economic impact that happened in Hong
Kong
because I know there are people in Taiwan
that say closer ties to mainland China
will be better for the Taiwanese economy,
but you don't think that's the case?
If you look at what happened for the past
20 years before 2016
that is the previous administration tried
to persuade Taiwanese people
if we signed across-strait service trade pact,
it will help the economy in Taiwan.
But since the trade war between the United
States and China,
Taiwan actually benefits from [it],
we are not part of the trade partnership with
China.
Otherwise, when the United States sanctioned
China,
Taiwan might become the collateral damage.
So if you look at the economic numbers for
the past three years,
Taiwan is doing better and better.
What is the most important for us is to upgrade
our own industry,
not put our hope into China.
You know, don't wrong if we put our whole
economic growth,
if we put our hope on the Chinese market,
that is going to hurt us.
I see.
So, I can tell you're very concerned that
China's authoritarian regime could damage
Taiwan's democracy.
Do you think it's possible that Taiwan's democracy
could likewise have a positive influence in
China?
That is what we have been hoping for the past
20 years.
As long as Taiwan can have a healthy democracy,
the whole world will witness in the so-called
Chinese community,
democratic life is not only possible while
also beneficial.
China has been telling the whole world democracy
is not suitable for the Chinese community.
I think if you look at what happened in Taiwan,
Taiwan's democracy becomes stronger and stronger.
Taiwanese people's human rights have been
taken care of
and everyone who lives in Taiwan
can pursue their happiness and their dreams.
Democracy can work not only in Western countries
but also in Chinese community.
So it seems in this election the candidates
most likely to win the presidency
are either Tsai Ing-wen of the Democratic
Progressive Party
or Han Kuo-yu of the KMT Party.
First, what do you think would happen to Taiwan-China
relations
if Tsai won?
From what I observe,
President Tsai is going to win her second
term.
There's no doubt about that.
But what is more important is the congressional
election
because there are a number of important legislations
which have not been finished in our term.
They have to be finished by last Congress.
So we are hoping the pro-democracy camp
can win the majority of seats in Congress.
But as far as the president goes,
I think President Tsai is going to continue
her previous pace,
trying to protect Taiwan's democracy and at
the same time
maintain a stable relation with the Beijing
government
trying not to provoke the Beijing government,
but also showing all the people in China democracy
can work in Taiwan.
It also can be done in China.
So what do you think would happen if Han Kuo-yu
wins the presidency or the KMT wins a majority
in the Congress?
It doesn't look like it-
It is a horrifying thing if Han Kuo-yu wins
the election
I'm afraid the Xi Jinping's political agenda
might come to reality.
The so-called one country-two system
will be implemented by the Han Kuo-yu.
Do you think it would be that bad?
Yes.
Even after the Hong Kong protests,
wouldn't most people in Taiwan fight against
that, specifically,
the one country-two systems model even if
Han or the KMT won?
But Han did not say anything to protest
the political agenda by the Xi Jinping.That
is why his credibility is always in doubt
for most Taiwanese people.
We are not sure how aggressive he will become
if he do win the presidential election.
But that chance is not the kind of chance
we can take.
So in 2014, the mass of sunflower movement
protest
showed that many people in Taiwan were very
concerned about
the economic ties between Taiwan and mainland
China.Do you think that's still the case today?
If you look at the number,
the trade between China and Taiwan is still
going on,
there's not influence by the fact that DPP
is the ruling party,
but our government is trying their best 
to invest
more in other countries other than mainland
China.
I think the economic situation around the
world
will become quite complicated given the fact
that
the trade war between the United States and
China is quite uncertain.
We are not sure what is going to happen for
the next two or three years.
But in any event, it's very important for
Taiwan
to keep growing our own economy and trying
to have a sustainable system.
We have to avoid relying too much on the Chinese
market.
Otherwise, it's very possible for us to lose
our own political independence.
So as leader of one of the most successful
third parties in Taiwan,
what does your party see the future of Taiwan
China relations?
I think that is a very difficult question
because in some sense
it would depend on what will happen within
China.
We always support all kind of democratic movement
or any fights for human rights within China.
We are hoping more and more Chinese people,
they will stand up to fight against the Chinese
communist regime.
If that happens then we can seize the moment
to improve the political system in China.
As long as the political system changed within
China,
Taiwan can become safer and Taiwan can grow
a more healthy relation with China.
So you think Taiwan can play a big role in
bringing democracy to China?
Sure.
I think that is very important and significant.
If you look at what is happening in Taiwan,
why there are so many Chinese people who fought
for democracy,
used Taiwan as an example to show the whole
Chinese people
democracy can work.
The most important thing for us is to continue
to support that kind of democratic efforts
happening in China.
That is not only beneficial for the Chinese
people,
but it is also the best interest of Taiwan.
So moving forward, what would you like
to see happen between US and Taiwan relations?
We want to establish a formal official relation
with the United States.
We are very grateful for all kinds of good
efforts
done by the US Congress for the past two years,
such as the Taiwan Travel Act and the Taipei
Act.
They are very helpful for Taiwan to continue
to grow a stronger relation with Washington,
D.C.
But more than that,
I would be happy to see we signed a trade
deal
with the United States
to continue the economic partnership
between the United States and Taiwan.
And moving forward beyond that,
eventually I hope we can establish
an official diplomatic relations with Washington,
D.C.
Well, thank you so much for joining me today.
We're very anxious to see what happens in
these elections.
My pleasure.
Thank you.
