

### Lessons in Love:

### Love has Power over Evil

### By

### Jesus (AJ Miller)

### Session 1

Published by

Divine Truth, Australia at Smashwords

http://www.divinetruth.com/

Copyright 2014 Divine Truth

Smashwords Edition, License Notes

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### This ebook is a transcript of two seminars delivered on 18th and 19th February 2012 in Dallas, Texas, USA, by Jesus (also known as AJ Miller) as part of the Lessons in Love series, focusing on how love has power over evil. In it Jesus describes what true love is rather than the world's definition of love, the psychology of evil, and how evil can be overcome by love.

### Reminder From Jesus & Mary

### Jesus and Mary would like to remind you that any document produced by Divine Truth containing any information from Jesus, Mary or any other person includes only a portion of God's Truth that they have personally discovered.

### It does not and cannot contain the entire of God's Truth since God's Truth is infinite and humankind will forever continue to discover more of God's Truth as we progress in receiving more of God's Love.

### Please remember that due to these limitations information contained within this document may need to be revised in the future.

### Many other ebooks have been published by Divine Truth, including ebooks translated into a variety of different languages.

### Please visit <http://www.Smashwords.com/profile/view/DivineTruth> or www.divinetruth.com for further information.

### Additional sessions on the subject in this book can be found on www.Smashwords.com/profile/view/DivineTruth

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Table of Contents

### Love has Power over Evil: Part 1

1. Introduction

2. The world's view of love

3. The world's view of evil

4. Evil relies on fear and terror to control us

5. Responses to terror

5.1. An example of rabbits' terror responses

5.2. Responding to terror with fight, freezing or fleeing causes the evil to grow

5.3. Placating is another way we respond to terror

5.4. Responding to evil with fear does not overcome it

6. The psychology of evil

6.1. Defining what evil really is

6.2. How evil acts

6.2.1. Evil takes pleasure in the pain of others

6.2.2. Spirits in the hells of the spirit world believe that evil is the most powerful force

7. Redefining love

8. Evil vs. good

8.1. Hollywood's definition of good

8.1.1. Sexual attraction can result from feeling protected by a man from evil

8.2. Society views righteous violence as good

8.3. All violence is evil

8.3.1. Using restriction to curb violence

8.3.2. An example of curbing violence in countries

9. Love is the cure to evil

9.1. An example of an unloving response to a family being physically threatened and killed

9.2. Love of self, love of others and love of truth need to be embraced to overcome evil

9.2.1. Receiving God's love automatically increases love of self, love of others and love of truth

9.2.2. Co-relations between acts of violence

9.2.3. One source of evil - self reliance

9.2.4. Man has created evil

9.3. Discovering how a true definition of love that will overcome evil

10. Questions from an audience member about background information

### Love has Power Over Evil: Part 2

11. Discussion about the audience member being a media plant

11.1. When to speak up for truth vs. when not to engage with evil

11.1.1. Engaging with evil through our addictions is unloving

11.1.2. Love offers the truth to evil without engaging in addictions

11.1.3. Fear prevents us from seeing others' evil intentions

11.1.4. Our emotional injuries can confuse the truth

11.1.5. The truth is always enlightening and never confusing

11.1.6. The loving response to the evil act of being manipulated

11.1.7. Reasons for not being able to recognise evil

12. Negative spirit influence towards Divine Truth on Earth

12.1. Areas on Earth that are influenced by evil spirits in the hells

12.1.1. Women spirit influence

12.1.2. Economic influence

12.1.3. Religious influence

13. The psychology of evil continued

13.1. Justifications for carrying out evil

13.1.1. Others have attacked us first

13.1.2. Others may attack us first

13.1.3. Others don't do what I want

13.1.4. Others have been unjust

13.1.5. Others are wrong

13.1.6. People are unjust in their carrying out of evil

13.1.7. We are in "pain" that we don't want to feel

13.1.8. We are in "discomfort" that we don't want to feel

13.1.9. We do not get what we feel we deserve

### Love has Power over Evil: Part 3

14. God created us perfect and with the ability to overcome evil and our flaws

14.1. Our actions are driven by our feelings, not our thoughts

14.2. To change our behaviour we need to change our feelings

15. How love of self acts

15.1. Not catering to my own addictions

15.2. Desire to feel all of my own emotions

15.3. Telling the truth to ourselves and to others about ourselves

15.4. Suggestions from the audience about other ways to love ourselves

15.5. Becoming sensitive to ours and others' pain

15.6. Feeling our own pain and no longer justifying pain to ourselves or others

15.7. Summary of ways to love ourselves so far

15.8. Only wanting what is loving for ourselves

15.8.1. How to determine what is loving and what is not loving

15.8.2. An example of having a car accident

15.9. A desire to grow more loving and truthful

15.10. Security in our belief systems

15.10.1. Feeling relaxed about changing our belief systems

15.10.2. Security in our beliefs about ourselves

15.10.3. An example of an attacking email AJ received from a Christian lady

16. How love of self overcomes evil

16.1. Not catering to our own addictions, demands and expectations

16.1.1. We see our addictions and demands as unloving and unjust

16.2. Desiring to feel all of our own emotions, even pain

16.2.1. We do not want others to share our pain

16.2.2. We do not want others to validate our pain

16.2.3. We do not have the desire to avenge our pain

16.2.4. We do not have the desire to reduce our pain

16.2.5. We do not have a desire to remove the fear of our pain

16.2.6. How us stopping being evil overcomes others being evil

16.2.7. Fear creates physical pain

16.2.8. Summary of the benefits of feeling our own emotions in the eradication of evil

16.3. Telling the truth to ourselves and to others

17. We need to feel, but not act upon, our evil emotions to release them

17.1. The addiction of wanting to be being heard

18. The cause of physical pains and illnesses

18.1. An example of a needle phobia

18.2. Dealing with physical ailments in children

18.2.1. Our fear for our children's welfare makes our children feel less loved

18.3. The relationship between diseases and spirit influence

18.4. Emotional causes of dental problems

18.5. If we address the emotional cause we can cure the effect

19. Closing Words

Love has Power over Evil: Part 1

1. Introduction

So did you get to know each other a little? Awesome! I don't know what you feel when you meet each other, but sometimes I feel like, "I'm sure I know this person. I'm sure I've had something to do with this person." And for most of us we certainly have had something to do with each other because of meeting in the sleep state at different times. So we're ready for our next subject?

Well let's talk about this subject, Lessons in Love. This is a part of a series that I started when I was in Australia, talking about the different types of lessons in love. What we've already covered in Australia is lessons in love to do with loving yourself, and lessons in love to do with loving others. And today I'd like to cover this subject, Love has power over evil. And I've purposely used the term evil because I'd like to define it, if we can do that.

But if you think about the contrast between what the world's views about love and what the world's views about evil, what would you come up with? So if we compare what the world's views of love and what the world's views of evil, are in terms of their abilities to overcome the other, what are the basic beliefs you can see that the world has about love? Is love powerful enough to overcome evil? [00:03:59.07]

No.

2. The world's view of love

Most people on the world would say no. So what do they view love to be then? So love is sweet, insipid some would say, what else? Weak, vulnerable, caring, chancy, risky, shall I use the term risky? A fabrication of the mind! Many have a very strong condescension towards love. It's for suckers. So what would you say if we use a less colloquial term? For fools, love is for fools. So foolish, conditional, love is blind, yes, impractical. Love is power, but does the world view that? Because if love was power...

Participant: The ego mind would say power was that you could force people to do things but love is the power to create.

Yep, but do most people on the planet believe that? I would say most people on the planet don't believe that. Unreliable is what a lot of people believe. How many of you have had an unreliable love in your live?

Participant: It's painful.

Painful, yes!

Participant: Sacrifice.

Sacrifice, yes. Fleeting, yes. Hurtful, yes. (AJ sings "Love Hurts") Irrational, very good. Overwhelming... do most people let themselves ever be overwhelmed by love? Instead what do they say? There are different things people say about not letting yourself be overwhelmed by love. If I just extend this idea a bit. How many of you allow yourselves to be overwhelmed by the love you feel? on a day-to-day basis. So that would tell me that there is a different viewpoint of love than it being overwhelming. So I do feel that for many of us, if we felt love fully we would be overwhelmed but most of us try to control that. We don't want to be overwhelmed. We want to be in control. So there's an issue there. [00:07:43.24]

Participant: Distancing.

Do most people feel that? I don't feel most people feel that. [00:07:53.02]

Participant: Intercourse.

So sex! Limited in lots of different ways, hey? Can you see we're starting to get a bit of a picture?

Participant: Earned.

Earned, yes. Okay. So that's our view of love. Let's just rub evil out. Now can you see there are a lot of pretty negative connotations in all of that, isn't there? If you look at it honestly, of what we view love to be, there are often some very negative connotations in what we view love to be. We don't see love as a powerful force, we see love as all of these weak things, which we see as foolish and painful and hurting. We've got all of these concepts about love that are really quite negative actually. Can you see? [00:09:08.14]

So when I say love has power over evil, people go, "What?! Evil has power over everything," is the viewpoint that most people have. And therefore they believe it also has power over love. So can we see that we don't actually have firstly a good concept of love, but secondly we don't have any concept of love's power inbuilt in us now, because of all of these experiences we've had and all of these experiences of life that have caused us to believe that love is something that's insipid and weak, we have this concept that love isn't something that is practical or reliable in day-to-day life. We believe this, in our soul we believe it. [00:10:06.15]

In our mind we say to other people, "Love is everything". In our soul we say, "Love is these things". (AJ points to the descriptions on the whiteboard) Can you see? Now of course that covers a lot of emotional hurt, doesn't it? These statements that we're making about love that many people on the planet feel, demonstrate how hurt we are with love. How we have a very flawed concept of the whole idea of love. So bearing that in mind, that's our viewpoint of love. We don't see love as a powerful force in the universe.

3. The world's view of evil

How do we see evil? [00:10:59.13]

Participant: Powerful. Self-centredness. Selfishness.

Right, so selfish.

Participant: Scary.

Scary.

Participant: Cruel.

Cruel.

Participant: Powerful.

Powerful.

Participant: Manipulative.

Manipulative, Controlling, Inevitable, Yes. Omnipotent.

Participant: Eternal.

Yep, it's going to be around forever.

Participant: Enduring. Victorious.

Yeah. We're often totally petrified of it, are we not? Yep. So we see it as threatening.

Participant: Personified in some being.

Right, so we relate things like the devil, demons to such a concept, don't we?

Participant: Strong.

Strong.

Participant: Harmful. Filled with lies and deceit.

Can you automatically start seeing a pattern here that there's a duality we feel about it, can you see that? So what's the duality that we see about evil? On one hand we see it as powerful, controlling, the way of the world. On the other hand we see it as terrible, scary, like can you see how we sort of have this almost like a love hate relationship with evil? Can you see that? When we talk about love, we sort of look down upon love in our souls but when we talk about evil can you see we almost have an adoration for it in some way? As well as a scary feeling whenever we think of it! It's sort of like we admire it but at the same time hate it. Yes? That's how we often feel about evil. [00:13:32.21]

Now can you see straight away that it's going to be very, very difficult for me, if I have these concepts about love, and this concept of evil, to ever believe that love has power over evil? Do you see? And my whole emotional state is going to be that I am going to be frightened at the thought that love could possibly have power over evil. I'm actually going to be actually terrified of accepting that concept because every bit of evidence that I think I've seen in my life seems to tell me the opposite; that evil is the thing that has power. That evil is the thing that controls. Evil is the thing that demands its acceptance.

4. Evil relies on fear and terror to control us

Now evil relies, and if I define... perhaps we need to define evil, which we will in a minute, but I will just make a statement first that evil relies on your fear of it in order to control you. Evil relies on your fear of evil to control you. If you were not afraid of evil, it could not control you but for the majority of us, when we consider evil we are terrified. So if we look at the base word, terror, it's a very interesting word that connotates a lot of things emotionally for us, doesn't it.

Participant: Can we put dishonesty up there.

Evil, yes certainly we can have dishonesty.

5. Responses to terror

Let's look at the terror. What does the emotion of terror do? Well it does one of three things generally, depending on its severity. So what are those three things? Do you know? Fear causes you to either fight or flee or freeze. That's what terror does emotionally to us. Now whenever we conceive evil, whether we're on the receiving end of it, or on the giving end of it, we are generally involved in one of those three emotions, where we wish to fight, we wish to flee, get away from a situation, or we just go into shock.

5.1. An example of rabbits' terror responses

Now I've told this story before that my father used to shoot rabbits in Australia. Rabbits in Australia are treated as if they are like vermin. They were brought from the English a couple of hundred years ago to Australia, before then Australia didn't have rabbits. [00:17:10.11]

And so what happened was the rabbits, when they first came, they very, very rapidly multiplied and there were literally billions of them in Australia. Billions of them! And they introduced a number of diseases actually to control them in Australia. Firstly there was a disease called Myxomatosis, I can't remember the next disease. But these diseases killed billions of the rabbits in their holes, just to get rid of the rabbits. Because what the rabbits were doing was they were eating the bottom of all the trees, which weren't used to the rabbits doing so, so much so that most of the trees didn't have hard enough bark and many of the trees died because they got ring barked at the bottom.

And a lot of the native flora and fauna that relied on the ecosystem died as a result and so it becomes a big issue. As a result of that, many people in Australia have a deep hatred for any introduced species of animal, including rabbits. And my father is one of those. He had this hatred for... well he just viewed them as vermin that he could shoot and he used to go out shooting them most weekends. And when I was a child, I used to ride the motorbike and he used to be on the back with his 22 rifle shooting rabbits while I was riding the motorbike.

But before I was born he described how there was so many rabbits that what they decided to do was that instead of shooting them... which actually put a hole in their skin, which meant their skin, their pelt, was no longer very valuable and it also put a hole in the flesh, which meant that they couldn't sell the rabbit for food very easily. They had to cut off that area of flesh. So what they decided to do was to shoot over the top of the head of the rabbit. And the sound barrier crack would freeze the rabbit through terror. It would hear the bullet go past, the sound barrier crack of the bullet, and it would instantly freeze. And you could actually walk up and pick up the rabbit. And then they'd slit the rabbit's throat and leave it for whatever. [00:19:36.08]

5.2. Responding to terror with fight, freezing or fleeing causes the evil to grow

The terror of just that sound caused the rabbit to go into a complete frozen state. This is how many of us react to evil. We are so terrified of it, that we're actually frozen in its presence. If we don't freeze, then we either attempt to do one of these other two things. We either attempt to flee it, to go away, run away from it, or we wish to fight it. The irony is that if we respond to evil in any one of those three manners, evil will continue. So if you try to flee evil, it will follow you. If you try to fight evil, it will grow. And if you freeze it also grows. Because when you understand the psychology of evil, you start understanding why a person decides to be evil, and it's always about causing a person to be frightened so much that they either, freeze, flee or want to fight you and you like every one of those things, if you're evil. [00:21:08.09]

So, this is our normal response to evil, and if we respond in any one of these normal ways to evil we are guaranteed evil will grow. And that's why evil has grown on the planet. Mary?

5.3. Placating is another way we respond to terror

Mary: I feel like there's a fourth way that I respond to evil sometimes, and that is possibly the worst.

Denial?

Mary: No, I try to placate the evil by getting approval. I actually join in something that is not loving for me because I'm so frightened I just want to do anything to stop the...

Placate people, so you placate or try to pander to it?

Mary: Yeah, I try and make it happy, in order to go under the rage. It's a fear response I feel, but I feel it's a most damaging response I can have for my own soul because I'm actually in some way joining the damaging thing.

Yes, this idea of placating evil is a great way to avoid one of these emotions (AJ points to fear emotions on the whiteboard) or to avoid in fact this emotion (AJ points to terror on the whiteboard). So what we finish up doing with evil on the planet is we justify its existence so much that we pander to it. Can you see how that happens in day-to-day life? If you think of when the terror attacks happened on 9/11, there was evil there. For the first time on United States soil, this concept that a person would die just to harm others was for the first time acted out en masse. [00:23:20.06]

5.4. Responding to evil with fear does not overcome it

Mind you, it had been happening many other times in the United States if you look at it, because what about the War of Independence? Isn't it sort of a similar concept? But unfortunately, you know, we've taken this event and turned it into something a bit larger than perhaps it is but in the process we learned that, okay, evil exists. Somebody who conceived of that particular event obviously had a lot of evil within them, whoever it was that conceived the event. And for that reason we then decide that we're going to do something with it. Now what was America's choice? To fight! So that was America's choice.

And what is the choice of somewhere like Iraq? What did they choose with that evil? Didn't they choose to placate it? Can you see that? Didn't they choose to support the people who were involved in that, placate it, pander to the people who supported it? What about other counties in the Middle East? They felt the same, didn't they? At the time, and not only other counties in the Middle East there were other things. What did other countries recommend? So the United Nations before the war actually occurred in Iraq, what did the United Nations recommend? Can you remember? They really recommended this, didn't they? (AJ points to placate on the whiteboard) Placating it, yes!

So what I'm trying to illustrate is that every response that mankind generally has to evil, every response that mankind has to evil, is mostly about either doing these things (AJ points to the fear responses on the whiteboard) and has any of it eradicated evil? [00:25:36.24]

No.

So that tells me that placating evil does not work. It tells me, that going into a frozen state doesn't work. It tells me that fleeing it doesn't work because it just follows you and it tells me that fighting it doesn't work either because all that happens is the evil grows when you fight it. So what works? Can you see why we believe nothing works and therefore evil is the most powerful thing? Can you see that? [00:26:06.09]

Participant: The reason why I mentioned dishonesty is that I think any time we're dishonest about anything it opens the door for a weakening position, and evil moves in. And it seems like every time honesty is presented, evil runs and hides.

Okay, so truth is sort of an antidote...

Participant: Truth, yeah there you go.

We would call it that. And so we'll talk about that in this discussion actually in terms of a lesson of love. So can we see that the average way we handle evil does not work? And what I'm going to propose is that there's only thing that works. It's that weak thing that we just described. Let's look at love again. It's that thing, that's the only thing that works.

6. The psychology of evil

Now to understand how it works we need to understand the psychology of evil, we need to understand how evil thinks. That makes sense, does it not? If we understand how evil thinks, then we can find the appropriate antidote to it and apply that to it and see through experience, through testing it, through experimentation, whether it works or not. [00:27:40.15]

So let's look at how evil thinks or you could call it, the psychology of evil, if you wanted to use longer words. So what is the psychology of evil? What causes a person to become evil?

6.1. Defining what evil really is

Let's even define evil for a moment, shall we? Shall we attempt to define it in terms of what is it really? What is evil really?

Participant: I was feeling that evil is a bully actually.

Okay it's a bully, yeah.

Participant: Which means to me that, it kind of puts up a front, it puts up a mean front but it's not actually going to do...

It does often do what it threatens to do, doesn't it, evil? In fact that's the whole problem. It's not just a threat it's an actual action. But let's look at the word bully, what are we saying about evil in that regard? [00:28:49.15]

Participant: It terrorises you.

So the purpose is to what? Terrorise.

Participant: And overpower.

Participant: Compelled to feed on fear.

To compel, yes, very good.

Participant: To dominate.

Dominate.

Participant: Control.

Control.

Participant: To have its way.

Yep, so it's demanding, isn't it? It demands. It wants.

Participant: To qualm its own fears.

Yeah but that's the underlying motivation of it, shall we say. So I will talk about the underlying motivation in a minute.

Participant: Destroy.

Destroy, yes, very important. And does it care whether it destroys the person who's evil or the other person? It's not often very selective, is it? Often you're destroying yourself while you're evil as well, and it doesn't seem to matter; anything else that you can think of? [00:30:03.20]

Participant: Self-fulfilment, for self-fulfilment. In other words it just doesn't care what it does to others as long as it gets what it wants.

So let's call it selfish.

Participant: To hide the truth.

So its object is to hide truth, yep.

Participant: What about instant gratification?

Very good, yep. Instant gratification. That's what it expects, isn't it? It expects you to meet its demands immediately. Without question, without any form of pondering about it or thinking about it or thinking about whether you want to or not, none of that. So it's totally the opposite of free will in a way, isn't it? We're not going to have free will in the face of evil most of the times. That's how evil thinks; it wants to create no free will. It wants to have no free will except for itself, except for itself. Anything else? [00:31:14.11]

Participant: What about somebody who's confused between evil and love, for instance they do an evil act towards another person, they say, "I did it because I loved them". So would evil be confusing a person or something?

Can you say it self justifies?

Participant: Okay.

Participant: Manipulates.

And manipulates, yes. By the way, how many of you, just as a personal question, and I know these are personal questions that are sometimes a bit confronting, but how many of you have thought about when somebody crossed you in love, you know when you're in a relationship with somebody.

Participant: I did.

Like, cheating? You're already putting your hand up! You're in a relationship and somebody you feel harmed you in love, how many of you have thought about trying to get them back? Not get them back into your life, but get them back and make them feel the same pain you felt? How many of you would have loved to see that happen? So can you see how many of us do have the underlying emotion that creates the evil tendency sitting within us? And so there is a belief on the earth that man is inherently evil, isn't there? There's this underlying belief. [00:33:02.20]

So that's the underlying feeling of evil. Evil is trying, basically, to control. It's trying to gain a control and ascendency, isn't it? It wants what it wants. That's how evil thinks.

6.2. How evil acts

So what does it do when it thinks these things? If that's how evil thinks, what does evil eventually do?

Participant: Looks for someone who is susceptible, someone they can manipulate. It looks for someone it can influence.

Yes. I agree totally. Good.

Participant: It gets people afraid and then sucks energy off of it.

So if feeds on the fear of others?

Participant: Exactly, yeah.

Yep, I agree. Totally, anything else that you can think of?

Participant: It controls the information that gets out to perpetuate that fear thing.

It does, certainly. Yep.

Participant: I was just going to say it can create shame because if you were to think about some of the stuff they're asking... I've thought about stuff like that before. I didn't necessarily act it out every time but I have had an initial thought like that and that can create a shame in yourself that you would be able to think something like that. [00:34:57.19]

Yes. So if you have shame in yourself that's unresolved, can you see how easy it is to manipulate your shame as well? If I decided to manipulate your shame, if I knew what your shame was, then that would be an evil act, wouldn't it basically? It would be an act of harm. But that's what evil often does. Evil often manipulates the shame of others. Yes.

Participant: It's motivated by greed.

In what way... greed...in what way, Lawrence?

Participant: It just wants it all.

Okay, wants everything, not just money, but everything.

Participant: Power. Money.

Power, control, everything. Yep.

6.2.1. Evil takes pleasure in the pain of others

Participant: It takes pleasure in everyone else's pain.

It does. This is a very important part that I want to write down. It takes pleasure in other's pain. We want to come back to that because we want to see why we would do that. Why would we have a longing to take pleasure in other's pain?

Participant: Aren't they just hurt to begin with?

The person who's evil?

Participant: The person who's allowed things to reside in their heart.

I agree but a lot of the times when we're faced with evil in our day-to-day life, we don't think, "Oh that person's just sad." Or we don't think, "Oh that person's just got a lot of fears of their own." Most of the time we're in a totally different place when we're faced with it in our personal life. Intellectually we can go, "Oh well they must have some sadness or they must have some fear of their own in order for them to take such an action." But then when someone comes along and murders your child, in that situation you're not thinking, "Oh he must have had some sadness in him." You're not thinking that anymore, are you, in that moment? And this is what we've got to do with evil. We've got to see that the emotions we feel take over the intellect. And I'm not saying that's a bad thing. What we need to do is address the emotions that take over the intellect that cause us to act in our response to evil, whether we fight it or whatever we do to it. It's our emotions that take over the intellect in the process. [00:37:34.12]

And so unless we face the emotions inside of us that cause us to take over our intellect, when we get put in the situation no amount of intellectual reasoning before that point will help us. We need to see that we need to address something emotionally to cure this issue.

Participant: Do you suppose, AJ, that deep down it's the evil trying to achieve security, for itself through controlling others?

I agree. Most evil has as its cause a deep sense of fear of its own. But unfortunately the person who perpetrates evil is not thinking that at the time they're perpetrating evil. They're already in the, what I would call, higher level emotion, not in the base emotion that creates it. So we'll look at its structure in a minute in terms of the different emotions that create evil. Because we need to come to understand it to understand how love combats it. Do you understand? We need to understand evil to be able to then understand how love can overcome it. How love has power over it. Any other comment you'd like to make about evil itself? How it thinks and what it does? [00:38:52.04]

Participant: It tries to separate us from love.

It always tries to separate us from love. In fact what it does most of the time is tells us that love has no power. Love has no power.

6.2.2. Spirits in the hells of the spirit world believe that evil is the most powerful force

It's interesting when we speak with spirits in the hells of the spirit world because every single spirit who comes to speak generally believes that love has no power. They only believe in evil. They only believe that evil is the thing with power. In fact many of them are doing this, if I can describe it to you as a picture. Imagine this is the spirit who's in the hells. So today we had some women spirits who are in the hells come to speak with us and those women spirits had been harmed when they were on earth, they'd been sexually abused and raped on earth. They'd had sexual violence perpetrated towards them. They'd died during this sexual violence. And then they passed into the spirit world. [00:40:08.10]

And they wanted to talk to us about evil, about why shouldn't they be continually afraid of evil? Interestingly enough those spirits have even darker spirits surrounding them, who are men spirits who are the same kind of spirits as the people on earth who actually caused their own death. Even in a darker location. And these spirits are even motivated by some even darker spirits.

Successively darker spirits in the hells of the spirit world

So instead of them feeling that love rules the spirit world, which it does, and we'll describe how maybe later, they believe that evil rules the spirit world and the more evil you are, the more power you have. That's their belief.

And the very darkest of these spirits are the people who control the financial and political systems of this earth. The very darkest of these spirits and they use forms of threats and blackmail and so forth of potential events to get these people to do the harm to these people. Do you understand? These people here even (AJ points to the middle spirits); the ones who are harming these (AJ points to the women spirits at the top) are totally frequently guided by even darker people who are more threatening to them. They are more frightened of them than they are of anything else. So fear is a huge factor in evil, even after a person has passed. [00:42:02.02]

Participant: It's kind of disheartening to think that not only are we fighting this on earth in the physical but now you're saying we've got all of this other energy around us and that's sort of disheartening.

Disheartening is a good word. There's another word that we often feel when I start a discussion like this, and that is hopeless. These are often feelings that come up in a discussion. Now I'm not saying all of these things to totally dishearten you and make you feel completely hopeless. However these are often emotions we feel when we face the truth of evil on the planet, and the truth of evil in the spirit world. In the first dimension of the spirit world... there's other dimensions in the spirit world, lots of them, but the first dimension of the spirit world is almost totally populated by people who believe in evil. When I say 'believe in evil', their primary belief system is that evil is the most powerful force.

Now there are some of them who are petrified of that, and there are some of them who love that. But collectively they believe that evil and terror are the most powerful forces. So when we come to talk with the spirits, they feel the same thing you feel; disheartened and hopeless. They just feel like there's no other way than to pander to it. We have to pander to it, we have to bide it. We have to do something, one of those things, that we mentioned earlier to stop ourselves from feeling those feelings actually. So what do we do?

Participant: These evil people or spirits... if they're trying to gain security by controlling others, perhaps really all they need is real love in their lives.

I agree.

Participant: And that's the answer for them.

7. Redefining love

It is the answer but we now have to define real love because remember when we wrote love on the board up there before.

That's our opinion of love and that didn't seem very powerful to me. That's the issue. So the issue we face is that real love, potentially has the way to solve this problem theoretically. We need to find out how. To be practical about the discussion, we need to come up with practical circumstances and situations that demonstrate how real love can solve the problem. But we need to know what real love is. It's no good thinking that real love is insipid, weak and all those kind of things because real love isn't any of those things. But it's what we believe real love is. And unfortunately because we believe real love is like that we then feel that it has no power. [00:45:23.19]

8. Evil vs. good

So the problem we face is that when we talk about this evil vs. good discussion, and I find it very fascinating because... Hollywood is awesome! Honestly. The reason why is it's a reflection of what we as a society believe about these things. And what do you see in most Hollywood movies? Good always prevails. Sorry? But let's define good.

8.1. Hollywood's definition of good

What does Hollywood define 'good' as?

Participant: Superheroes.

Well no, no.

Participant: Fighting back.

Yes, yes, yes. They're the ones who fight back with righteousness on their side. Isn't that the definition?

Mary: Semi-automatic...

A semi-automatic gun or an automatic rifle killing all the evil ones! And then the good triumphs! Is that what we're talking about here? I don't think so. Alright, so even Hollywood's definition of good, I would actually classify as evil.

8.1.1. Sexual attraction can result from feeling protected by a man from evil

Mary: That's what I was feeling before about this placating issue. I feel almost in society it's such a common injury that we almost now laud things that are evil. So a lot of people who are regarded as celebrities do some pretty dark things but we almost worship them and Hollywood is based on this; if I'm a big strong man who's prone to violence, I'm actually hot. And so I feel like there's this real societal feeling that shows how much we want to placate evil. [00:47:20.18]

Yes. In fact it's very interesting because even a lot of sexual attraction on earth is not actually about true attraction but it's actually about how much the man will protect me from evil. Isn't that interesting? We're actually wanting the man to be partly evil so that he can protect me from evil. And a man who's like that is viewed as a good man. He's a good man. He's a good man if he reverts to violence with a just cause. That makes him good. Of course the definition of a just cause varies widely depending on the circumstances. And sometimes a just cause just gets down to my cause, whatever that is.

But this is the problem, even a lot of what we view as attractiveness on the planet is all about placating evil. It's all about whether this person will be able to placate evil. And if he can, then I'm attracted to him. Or if he can fight evil I'm attracted to him. If he runs away from evil, what do I feel? He's weak, insipid. Yep? And if he's a pacifist, what do I feel? He's got no courage. Do you know in the Second World War there were a group of people... when your country America... who refused to go to the Second World War. The majority of them got tarred and feathered and put in jail. Why? Because not going to war was viewed as unpatriotic and weak, cowardly and so forth.

8.2. Society views righteous violence as good

So interesting, isn't it, that we even societally have this viewpoint that evil is the only thing that can overcome evil. But we don't call it evil. We call it good and the reason why we call it good (when it's just the same as evil, it has the same actions,) it's still violent but it's righteous. It's righteous violence. Right's on your side so you can be violent, if right's on your side. That's the viewpoint. Is it working? [00:50:39.16]

Participant: No.

No. So it doesn't work. But that's how we view it. It's interesting that if you compare evil with good for most people in their mind, both of them are violent but one is unrighteous.

In other words one of them is defined as wrong. Now for each society the definition of wrong differs. So for instance, in your society the definition of wrong is a Muslim with a machine gun. In a Muslim society the definition of wrong is America with an atomic bomb. Can you see the definition of righteous vs. unrighteous just differs depending on the location? But both resort to violence. Both resort to violence. [00:51:43.04]

Participant: It's entertaining and it sells.

It's entertaining and it sells? In the movies perhaps but it's not very entertaining in real life.

Participant: Correct.

In real life it hurts.

Participant: I was going to say that it seems that one of the inherent problems with trusting love is that we can see violence, you can see the overpowering of something, you can see the action, but with love it's like it happens behind the scenes with God's Laws and they're invisible. So it's hard to trust, or it's hard to develop the trust in love because it happens in the invisible realm as opposed to right in front of your face, someone's dying.

I can't agree with that, Jennifer. I understand that's the conception that many of us have, but the reason why we have this conception is because none of us have really seen love on the planet really at this point. And the reason why we then start feeling love is sort of like an invisible force, but love isn't like that. It's actually a very, very powerful force and we'll talk about the power in it as we go along in our discussion today and tomorrow. But if I can just go back to this idea about violence, if we can for a moment. Let's look at... what we're basically saying on the planet is that if the violence is righteous, then the person who conducts it is good. [00:53:14.04]

8.3. All violence is evil

We're saying that if the violence is unrighteous, or in other words doesn't have right on its side, then it's evil. But I would like to say all violence is evil. In other words, there is no such thing as unrighteous or righteous violence. It is all unrighteous violence.

Now many of us inside of ourselves emotionally have yet to come to that conclusion. Many of us, at our deepest darkest moments, many of us do feel there is a justification for resorting to violence. Now can I give you one major way that we view this?

For those of you who've had children, if someone comes along and harms your child, how would you feel? How many of you feel at the moment you'd possibly resort to violence? The reality is the majority would possibly resort to violence in that situation. If we had the opportunity to if there was no law against it. If there's a law against it, now we want the state to resort to violence for us. Isn't that the same thing? Just somebody else is doing it for us, so therefore we're asking the state to be, in my definition, evil, just so that I don't have to feel that I am. That's the reality. [00:55:15.10]

Participant: This goes back to the Old Testament an eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth, isn't it?

Yes it does; some very strong religious flavour to this good vs. evil discussion, The eye for an eye, which by the way is in both the Christian Bible and the Koran, interestingly. "An eye for an eye" as Ghandi said, it makes the...?

Participant: ... whole world blind.

Whole world blind, yes! Because the reason why it does this because if I take out your eye then you won't be able to see to take out mine. And so what you end up doing is taking out somebody else's generally, if you resort to that violence.

8.3.1. Using restriction to curb violence

Participant: So in that case where evil vs. good, if you stop violence, is that violence? Like someone you said is harming your child or something like that, if you stopped them, is that violence? Is that what you're saying?

When you say stop them, what do you mean by stop them?

Participant: I don't know. Someone's going to throw a rock at them and you stop them from throwing a rock.

So how would you...?

Participant: So however you stop them is that violence also? Is that what you're saying? You grab their arm and peel the rock out of their hand, say. That's just a small example.

That's restricting.

Participant: Okay so that's not violence.

Well it depends how far you take it, doesn't it?

Participant: I suppose it does but... you know how far do you take it, to say that you're reacting or the good guy is reacting with violence?

It's a very good question and we'll discuss that question. Because the reality is for the majority of us we feel there should be some form of restriction of an evil act, that's what we feel...

Participant: I mean if you're saying that any restriction... you're not saying that restriction is violent then?

It depends how it's done. So if restriction is dropping an atomic bomb on somebody, then of course that's very violent. If restriction is to get out an automatic weapon, or a knife or something else, then that's violent. But restriction can take other forms. So I'm not saying that if we restrict a person that that is an act of violence. I'm saying that how we restrict the person can be an act of violence, depending on what we choose to do. So for example, placing a person in a prison because they have been violent to society is not an act of violence. Placing the person in a prison without giving them any assistance to change is more of an act of violence towards the person. So it just depends on the degree of what action we take as to what becomes violent or not in terms of our actions. [00:58:48.18]

And we can get to a discussion about defining violence but I'm just using some sort of fairly open concepts at this point to discuss how we view evil rather than what kind of individual action we can take in individual circumstances at this point.

Participant: When someone's using their free will disharmonious with love, I think we often feel like it might be okay to violate their free will in order to enforce being harmonious with love. But the truth is that any violation of free will is disharmonious with love so you can't do that.

No I don't agree with that.

Participant: You don't?

No. Not under all circumstances because if you look at a society on earth, if a person exercises their free will in order to harm others, then they're not respecting the fact that the others' free will are now being impacted. So the issue becomes an issue of balance. Do you understand what I mean by balance? If I'm harming your will then I should not expect to not have my own will restricted. That would be a just thing, would it not? So I can't expect to not have my own will restricted if I'm harming your will. And I don't feel that's a fair thing to expect. Mind you a lot of people on earth expect it but it's not a fair thing to expect. [01:00:31.06]

If I harm your will, surely a society that has love as its primary goal would then look at restricting my will so that your will cannot be harmed. But it's how we go about the restriction that is the issue.

8.3.2. An example of curbing violence in countries

And this is also applies to countries. So for example, at the moment, in Africa, in the Sedan for example, there are literally millions of displaced people who are displaced because of the violence surrounding them and they've removed themselves from that violence, they've fled from that violence, and they are now in camps on the borders of Sedan, or in other counties like Chad and so forth around Sedan.

Now at face value, it appears that the way to resolve this problem would be to somehow restrict the people who are being violent towards those people. But there are a number of other highly effective alternatives that we are as a society unwilling to take that actually would be more loving to both parties. So, for example, one thing would be, don't supply guns to the people who are being violent. That would be a restriction that if the US government chose to take... the US government is the largest arms manufacturer on earth. If it chose to take that one restriction, then it would automatically severely restrict or curtail their activity. [01:02:18.14]

The second thing is if every government on the planet who is in a peaceful state chose to airlift all of those victims of the violence to their country with no restriction, then there'd be nobody for those particular people to harm, would there not? They'd either have to harm themselves or search for something else to do. But they've got no guns now to do it with and they've got no people to harm either. But why don't we accept them? Why don't we, in other countries who are well off and affluent, accept the people who are being harmed? Because we have our own fears of a lack of abundance and so forth that cause us to take the action that we feel we can't actually airlift them out.

On the planet we have the resources to airlift millions of people if we want to, within a few weeks, if we really were concerned about resolving the issue. But the reality is the majority of us are not really concerned about resolving the issue, because we're worried about how this issue may pan out if we resolve it. We're not willing to take action because of fear; a lot of it's our own fear of our own lack of abundance. So what I'm suggesting is, if you look at practical solutions, there are many practical solutions that can restrict the people who are being violent that doesn't mean killing them. And it doesn't mean physically harming them. But there are many practical solutions that we can take that would severely curtail their activity. But the problem on the planet is we have a lot of governments, which are our own creation, we're the people that create the governments that actually do not wish to curtail their activity, because they have their own agendas in place! [01:04:18.00]

And some of their own agendas are, "We want to sell arms". One third of your economy is about arms manufacture. If the American government decided today to never make another gun, tank, bomb, etc, a third of your economy would just fall, the bottom of your economy would just fall out of itself. Are you prepared for that? You see the majority aren't. And the government knows that. You see?

Now if you look at the five biggest arms gun runners on the planet, they are all governments. Every one of them is a government: United States government, the Russian government are the two biggest. Chinese government, the French government and the German government, they're all governments. They are all governments providing the arms to the people who are perpetrating violence. And so there's a huge national and worldwide movement on the part of Western nations in particular to perpetrate violence in order to sell these arms. They love the threat of fear because then we can sell more guns. We can sell more arms. And these are areas that we need to look at, emotionally look at, as a society if we wish to change this issue. Can you see there are quite severe issues with it? [01:05:54.24]

Participant: I've another solution that might work. Of course, it's not going to happen anyway and neither is yours but they're great solutions. First of all we stop selling bullets, that's a good start.

That's a great start.

Participant: Then try and figure out, "What are they fighting about?"

Exactly!

Participant: And then you would find that they're being manipulated by somebody and then they could say, "Oh that's it!" and quit fighting.

Yep. So truth has a lot to do with it.

Participant: They're being lied to from somebody.

Exactly! Exactly!

Participant: Otherwise why would they be killing their own people?

And also there's a personalisation of global issues. Your government did this with you in 9/11, they personalised the issue to be a part of each one of you emotionally. Yes? And our government did the same. We went ahead with Iraq in Australia, exactly the same as you guys did, and the government personalised the issue. They tried to make it into an issue of your own personal safety and security. Now don't you think there are clever people on the opposite side of the world doing exactly the same thing? Against your government? Of course! And this is what we need to actually deal with.

9. Love is the cure to evil

So let's get back to this issue of love combating evil. So I'm not talking about the world's definition of good because the world's definition of good is if you're evil but righteous, that's good. That's the world's definition of good. I'm talking about firstly that all violence is evil, and secondly I'm talking about love being the cure. But we need to see how love is the cure. If we don't see how love is the cure, then it's impossible for us to actually embrace it as a feeling in us that we want to actually address. [01:08:05.09]

You remember all the things we wrote down about love, right at the beginning? The net result of all of those things is we viewed love as weak. Did we not? We viewed love as hurts, pain, weak, all these other things, that's what we viewed love as.

Now that kind of a love is not going to be the cure for anything. It's not going to be the cure for own unhappiness, let alone the unhappiness of the world. We need to actually see what kind of a love is going to be required to cure these problems.

So all of you intelligent people, well educated, so what kind of love is going to solve the problem? Now don't go banding terms around with me, without defining it. What do you mean by unconditional love? What do you mean by that? Well can we look at it from a... let me put a scenario to you.

9.1. An example of an unloving response to a family being physically threatened and killed

A person comes to you and to your family, they barge into your home, they put all of your children at gunpoint, right? And they threaten you to do something. Maybe you're a bank manager, and they threaten you to open the bank, right? Now initially you might refuse, right? Initially you might refuse. So what do they do?

Participant: Shoot one of your kids.

Well they might just threaten to shoot one of your kids. They might just threaten to shoot one of your kids. Now the threat causes what emotions in you, fear, and anger? Desire for revenge perhaps, right? But bearing in mind the guy's got the gun and he seems serious, he's threatening to shoot the child, what would you probably do in the moment? You'd probably submit, yes? You'd probably submit to his demand. So you give him the codes to the bank vault, he opens the bank and then he shoots all of the family anyway. That's what evil would do, isn't it? Evil would probably do that. And because evil doesn't have any conscience or it doesn't have any integrity either. It doesn't have any integrity of, "I'll agree to do something and then I will stick to my word," it doesn't say that. So evil would go ahead anyway. [01:11:13.14]

Now, let's say though that they decided to kill that child anyway. How would you feel? Would you feel unconditional love? That's the question I'm asking. Now can you see the majority of us would not, right? We'd feel a desire for revenge, a desire maybe to even attack the person involved if we could, we'd try to find a way to harm the person in the way they've harmed us. And there have even been cases where a person's tried to find their own children and harm their children once because their own child was harmed.

In other words, what we finish up trying to do is create the same pain as has been created in ourselves. Now why would we choose to do such a thing? Why would we choose to create the same pain in another person as what has been already created in us? [01:12:44.14]

Participant: As sort of a commiseration, like, so you know how I feel.

So yeah, the underlying thing is, you know how I feel now. Alright, that's the underlying emotion but why would we choose to do that? There's an underlying driving force that causes us to choose to create the same pain in another that's already within ourselves.

Participant: I have no idea.

We need to find it, don't we?

Participant: So we don't have to feel our own pain?

So we don't have to feel our own pain.

So can you see the underlying choice we've made, is to not feel our own pain but to make somebody else feel it; to put the pain on somebody else, to force another to feel the pain. And we want them to feel the same type of pain most of the time, don't we? I don't know if you remember the speech that President Bush gave after 9/11? Can you remember he actually included words very similar to that? That we are going to force the other person, the people who perpetrated this, they are going to regret their choices, basically. We're going to perpetrate the same kind of rage. Now, is that unconditional love?

Participant: No.

Okay. But that is what most of us feel. Most of us feel that we'd like to do that if we're honest with ourselves, you see. So can you see that for love to be unconditional there has to be some kind of change within our own heart that would cause us to not resort to these actions. Can you see that?

9.2. Love of self, love of others and love of truth need to be embraced to overcome evil

So, what we're going to do tomorrow is discuss some things about real love and some basic principles about real love that can overcome all evil. We're going to break them, if we get the time; we're going to break them firstly into love of self, areas of love of self that we need to embrace if we're going to prevent evil. [01:15:31.20]

There are also some issues that we need to raise regarding love of others that we need to embrace if we're going to prevent evil. And we are also going to need to have a love of truth in order to prevent evil. Now you notice that we don't necessarily need a love of God to prevent evil. In the 6th dimension of the spirit world there are many spirits who don't believe in God at all. And yet the 6th dimension is a place where there is no evil.

9.2.1. Receiving God's love automatically increases love of self, love of others and love of truth

So you don't necessarily need God's love to prevent evil. However, if you have love of God enter your heart, you actually automatically grow in that area: in love of others, in love of self, and in love of truth.

So if God's love enters your heart, you can automatically change in how much love you have of yourself, how much love you have of others, and how much love you have of truth. And so therefore receiving the love of God can actually do a great deal to change this concept of evil on the planet and turn it around, you know, to actually learn how to love. So what I would like for you guys to do, if you feel up to it tonight, is to have a bit of think about what love of self really means and how the proper love of self would combat evil. What love of others really means, and how the love of others would combat evil. And what love of truth really means, and how that would combat evil.

And we can come up with some ideas that you've come up with, with regard to what the love of self and love of others and love of truth really mean to us. And what we would like to do is to put it to the test in some example situations. To see what would happen if we were confronted with evil and we decided to follow some of the advice you want to give tomorrow. And if we can do that, I reckon we'll finish up understanding a lot more at the soul level, the power of love over evil. [01:18:17.19]

9.2.2. Co-relations between acts of violence

Participant: I've a question regarding evil and violence. If I eat meat is it already some kind of violence? Because we are the reason why animals get slaughtered and raised in a way, which is very unloving.

Is that violence?

Participant: Yeah. A part of violence?

Certainly, we'll talk about that. So is eating meat... what's that book, babe, by that guy?

Mary: It's called "Eating Animals" by Jonathan Saffron Froer.

Yeah. It's a really good book actually. There's lots of statistics in it about the relationship to killing animals and killing humans. There are a lot of relationships you will find. So he has all of this statistical analysis, literally thirty years of research that he's done and heaps of research in China and other places as well about their health. It's a very fascinating read anyway. But I agree, Rita, that there are certainly issues of these three areas of love with regard to even eating meat. And certainly if a society eats meat easily, there is certainly a larger tendency to violence in the society, which is an interesting co-relation. Statistically it's actually proven that there is a larger incidence of violence in the societies that eat meat. [01:20:36.09]

Participant: Isn't there a correlation between circumcision and violence in society as well?

Yes of course there is. There are quite a lot of co-relations to violence perpetrated towards males in their childhood and how violence comes out as adults. Certainly! There is also a larger incidence of violence of men that have been brought up by mothers. Men that have been brought up with only mothers in the household and no father in the household have a larger incidence of violence! 94% I think it is, in the States. 94% of men in prison for violent crimes have been brought up by mothers. Interesting! [01:21:31.07]

9.2.3. One source of evil - self reliance

Participant: Just back for a minute to evil, well it's kind of a two piece thing I wanted to say. One is, so the whole new age movement talks about, like, they sort of minimise that evil is even real. Which is so huge. So there's a slight relief about like, okay, this is real. And then part 2 is, is the reason that we have evil, does that come from self reliance?

The underlying core belief, yes, is all to do with self reliance but we need to see the structure of self reliance, which is one thing I'd hope to achieve tomorrow with you, is to help you understand the structure of self reliance and how it infects every aspect of our belief systems. And there is also a lot of information that, if you think about it tonight a bit as well, if you think about how evil itself is created through the actions of others who are not either loving themselves, loving others or loving the truth at the time. So if you can have a think about that as well. [01:22:37.07]

Participant: So we've all created evil?

9.2.4. Man has created evil

Mankind has created evil. Yes. God created the potential of its existence by creating free will. If we didn't have free will, we would all be robots. So God had a choice to create robots or create free will sentient thinking beings. But the problem with creating free will is that there is the potential for the person to use their free will in a violent manner. [01:23:18.22]

Participant: And all these spirits sitting in the hells that want to keep perpetuating evil... so we need to know that they're there but their purpose is... because they don't want to deal with their emotions, so they keep wanting to infect humankind.

Well what we'll like to do tomorrow is analyse their purpose.

9.3. Discovering how a true definition of love that will overcome evil

Rather than sort of jumping to a conclusion, what we'd like to do, is through your own investigation, we want to look at these areas of love and go, "Okay, in these areas of love, how is it that it results in evil?" If a person doesn't feel a certain thing or the things that you come up with in terms of what is love of self and what is love of others and what is love of truth, and then what we need to do is find a co-relation between those loves and how they would actually physically combat evil if we actually lived those loves. So remember when we started this discussion today, that when I wrote down love on the board and I asked you for the world's idea of what love is and what are the different emotions we feel about love, almost all of the emotions that came up were all about weakness and insipidness and all of these other types of feelings. So the reality is the majority of us have this idea still that love isn't very powerful. We have this idea that love is weak, easy to manipulate, easy to control. We see love as a problem, really, do we not?

So the issue we face then is if we believe love is a problem then we don't have a very good definition of love. So what I'm asking you to do tonight is to look at your own definition of what love of self means. See some people would say love of self means getting whatever I want whenever I want it. Now I would say that's not what love of self means. But we need to look at and examine our own definitions of love. The reason why we need to do that is we often justify actions that are violent based on love. So I would say we often justify evil based on love and obviously it's not love then, if it's justifying evil. So we need to have a good examination of ourselves in this process. [01:25:40.22]

So what I would like to do tomorrow, and we might get a chance... we'll definitely get the chance to look at those, the love of self, and hopefully we'll get a chance to look at love of others. I would like to look at it all but there are so many things to discuss in that area where the principles, the true principles of love, have the ability to cure all evil on the planet actually. But we need to understand what real love is.

Participant: So the problem with evil is really a problem with how to love?

I feel so, yes. The two are co-related because do you remember at the beginning we saw that most of us believe love has no power and most of us believe that evil is the only thing with power. And because of this basic underlying belief that we have, when we consider love combating evil we go, "How is that going to be the case?" We don't believe it can be and that's part of our issue. So part of our problem is what we define love to be, right? And that's part of our problem and that's the reason why we've never seen evil combated on the planet. So over the hundreds of thousands of years now that man has been on the planet, what we see is this belief that evil rules. [01:27:14.20]

Now many of us would hope that that's not true and we hope that this is true: love rules.

That's what we hope. But if you look at the reality on the planet, it's really the other truth, isn't it? At the moment. And so what we've got to do is find out what kind of love is it going to be before love actually rules. We need to really analyse ourselves to see what kind of love is going to be necessarily within me before I have the power to change evil on the planet? That's the question we all need to ask ourselves. What are the qualities and characteristics of this love that we're going to need in order for evil to be changed? In order for evil to not be honoured any more as the ruler. [01:28:13.09]

Participant: I found out in these four years that when I do the right thing not only it's not recognised but I get more rebuke for it or more hatred for it, a lot of projections for it. And it feels really hard to do the right thing or the loving thing or the truthful thing. It feels so hard to tell the truth, so hard to be loving.

Well I would put to you that if it's real love that won't be the case. If its love that is tainted with addiction, then whenever we act upon the love tainted with addiction, we get a response and if the response isn't what we want then we'll feel hurt. So this is where we've got to think about those things. Like what is real love of self? What is involved in the real love of self? What is real love of others? So does real love of others feel hurt when another person doesn't accept it? No. But often our love feels like that, doesn't it? When we love somebody and we can feel them rejecting our love, what do we feel? Often we feel hurt. So that tells me it's not real love. [01:29:41.24]

And what does the real love of truth, what is that going to demand of us, if we really love truth? In every single circumstance, in every single situation without any limitations, what will that do to us? That's what we've got to consider.

Participant: I found it interesting that when you had up the things about good vs. evil and righteous violence versus unrighteous, you weren't just describing Hollywood you were describing Christianity.

Exactly!

Participant: Which basically says that if you have a lesser sin like working on a Sunday or not being a virgin on your wedding day that the cure is actually the greatest sin of murder. And not just murder but being stoned to death. So even our most loving example, which is supposed to be Christianity, believes at its core that you can overcome maybe lesser evil with stronger more powerful evil.

Spot on. And almost every religious faith on this planet believes the same thing. So we obviously have to change our concept of love. We have to get that concept that we began with today of love and we've got to grow from that concept. We've got to start seeing what real love would do, not the love that we've all experienced in our lives would do. See the love we've all experienced in our lives has very many limitations and it's not the love we're talking about that's able to look after and eventually eradicate evil. We're going to need a different type of love. So what we need to do is discover what type of love it is we're going to need. [01:31:23.00]

How this type of love, this new type of love, has more power than any other force. It needs to somehow have so much power that even within ourselves... remember I said in this discussion, when we have evil perpetrated against us, we often resort to one of those three or four things that we mentioned, fight or flee or freeze or, as Mary mentioned, pandering. The real love has to be greater than those things as well. Doesn't it? For it to be effective! So how are we going to get it? It needs to be something that changes in here too (AJ points to his heart), it can't be an intellectual response because the problem with an intellectual response is that you put us in a stressful situation and all the intellect that we had up until then goes out the window.

In a stressful situation what is really in your soul is going to be the driving force. So the real love that we need needs to be something that transforms us in our heart so much that it drives our very action even under stress. So even if we're stressed out, it will still drive the same action. So that's the kind of love that I'd like to think about. What kind of love, are we going to need that is so strong that evil will not prevail against it? Would you be able to do that? [01:32:55.15]

Participant: Yeah!

That would be great. I'd like to thank you guys today for your time in particular.

10. Questions from an audience member about background information

Participant: Can I just ask a question?

Sure. Is it on the subject or a different...?

Participant: No I think it is. I got word of this yesterday, this is my first time to ever visit and I think it's such a neat message about love. I got derailed by a couple of things you said that I was confused about. The first one was spirit friends and you said something about a 6th dimension and I'm confused.

Okay. My suggestion for anybody who's confused about some of the terms I've just used is to watch a video that's on YouTube that I've done. It's called "The Secrets of the Universe". If you look on YouTube, there's a thing called "Divine Truth Channel". A friend of mine has put it on there. "Divine Truth Channel." And on there there'll be a list of different talks and discussions and one of them will be the "Secrets of the Universe". There's four parts to it. All together it's 9 hours unfortunately. [01:34:27.06]

Participant: Okay! We'll make some popcorn.

So there's part one and part two to it.

Mary: I think you covered it in part one.

And then there's a Q&A where people ask questions, so I'd go with the part one first and then part two. Now in part one and part two I outlined the basic structure of the universe and what happens when you die and a number of other things in that process. And it describes a lot of the basic principles of what I'm describing. And then you can use that as a basis to understand a lot of other things. So my suggestion for anybody who has found it a bit of a struggle with some of the things I've mentioned today to look at that talk. Yeah. [01:35:14.03]

Participant: Okay. And it goes into the spirits? The friends?

It goes into the spirits. There are both - friends and...

Participant: Okay and my other question relates to what actually what got me here, which I thought was very intriguing. I didn't know if you were going to talk about you or any of that. I wanted to know, because you mentioned talking in the first century, and so that was a part of your website that got me too, and that's why I'm here. So I was curious about that.

Okay. Yeah just that I'm Jesus, you mean?

Participant: Yes.

Yep. I don't talk about it that much. In comparison to all the talks that I've given, that's not something that's..., there are talks that I've given that are on the YouTube site that are about being Jesus. And there are also some interviews that are present that you could probably listen to. The Geoff Whitehead interview, it's on YouTube as well. He's a school teacher in Australia who interviewed myself and Mary and in that interview he just asked me some basic questions. It's the first session, session 1. He just asked me some basic questions about my identity and all of those kinds of things that would probably pay to watch as well. From my perspective, it's not an important issue. It's obviously an important issue for me, because I know who I am, but I don't feel it's an important issue for other people. [01:36:54.04]

Participant: It's huge for me, if that were the truth. Growing up knowing and accepting Christ as my personal lord and saviour, that would be huge. So because you knew about Christianity and of course what we learn about here, how it is, and then obviously how this goes off with the Bible, which I was taught was the truth. That's why I was so intrigued; I just wanted to know what that... I mean that's why I'm here.

Yep, no worries. Well if you listen to that interview, because many of the other people have already done that so that's why I've suggested that. So if you listen to that interview, you'll get a background of what I'm saying about my identity and if you listen to that presentation (AJ points to "Secrets of the Universe" on the whiteboard) you'll get a background of the basic teachings that I'm teaching in terms of a very quick overview of all the teachings. And then on YouTube I think there's about 500 hours or so of other talks but I'm not suggesting you see them all. But that will give you an idea (AJ points to "Secrets of the Universe" on the whiteboard) and this will give you an idea of what I'm saying (AJ points to the interview on the whiteboard) rather than addressing it now. [01:38:03.08]

Participant: Okay.

Is that alright?

Participant: Yeah, I appreciate it.

Not a problem. Michael?

Participant: That Secrets is in 2010 right?

Yeah it was 2010 in September. I think the date of it is 26th and 27th. There were 200 people in the audience who listened to the presentation and on the next day many of them came along and asked lots of questions about it. So the Q&A is their questions.

Participant: And that was in Australia?

That was in Australia.

Participant: So I was in the wrong country. Got it, Okay!

I've given the same talk in the States many times actually. I was in Florida in 2008 and I gave a talk to quite a lot of people. In fact we did a series of talks in Florida.

Participant: Had you thought about coming back and doing it again?

Myself and Mary just respond to the desires of people in an area. So we don't market anything. We go by donations because that's the only way we can travel. And so we've got no way of gauging an interest in a location until somebody actually tells us that they're interested. And then we come based on the desires of people. That's where we go everywhere in the world, basically. So in this trip here we've been to Athens, to London and to Sweden, Gothenburg. And they're all from people who have just asked us to come basically. So we can come back to places, it just depends on how much people want us to, basically. And our personal circumstances of course. [01:40:16.06]

Participant: Okay.

Yeah we do that all the time in Australia too. So we go around places in Australia as well.

Thank you. Okay. Thank you for your time, guys. (Applause) Mary just wants to mention some things.

Mary: Just that there's a cameraman and a journalist here from Channel 9 in Australia and they've asked if any of you would be interested in speaking to them? I said that was completely up to you. I gave them permission to film AJ as I knew he wouldn't care but they told me that they wouldn't be filming you without your permission. Just so you know, that's there.

Yep. And is there anything else? That's it? No worries.

Mary: It was good to meet you guys.

Yep. (Applause)

Love has Power Over Evil: Part 2

11. Discussion about the audience member being a media plant

Now what you saw yesterday was evil in action, but many of you did not recognise it, interestingly enough. I will explain. Remember some of things that we all agreed, that was a part of evil, was control, manipulation and deceit and those kinds of emotions. You saw it in action yesterday with the media crew. There was a lady down here, sitting down the front, who was a plant.

She was chosen to be like an actress and the guy next to her was actually a cameraman. And they were just waiting until the guy who had flown down from Los Angeles had arrived and brought a camera with him, so that they could film Jesus saying he's Jesus. That was the only point of the whole thing. And there was a very large degree of facade in this entire process. Now she of course desired to have everybody feel that she was actually sincere but she was not sincere at all. She was just an actress acting.

**Participant** : She was pretty good.

She was pretty good. How many of you fell for it? The crew came primarily because they have been sent by some people in Australia to come to actually do another attacking piece on us in Australia. And I could see all of that happening but that's the way it goes, and we have that happening often now with the media generally. We have yet to have in fact any honest interaction from any media person. They fake everything in order to get the shot they want. Then they fill it all in. They fill it all in and cleverly edit the whole thing. It'll be very interesting when you watch it because being here you will see what actually happened and then what actually gets presented, which are two very, very different things, Very different things! [00:10:13.13]

**Participant** : But, AJ, I like the way you encouraged them to go and watch your other presentations. You understood what was happening?

Yeah I understood what was happening.

**Participant** : Because maybe some good could come out of it in that they could be referred to what AJ has referred her to, but you're saying they probably won't use that.

No. Not at all!

**Participant** : Too bad.

The only reason for them being here was to create another attacking piece and it was interesting because he wanted me to do an interview afterwards. See the problem with most people in the media is they believe that if you've got a smile on your face that it means they always have a chance with you. So when you say no, they just come at another angle. And then when you say no, they're very good salesmen. Then you say no again and they come at it with another angle. It took 25 minutes for me to say, "No, you're not getting an interview because the last time you had an interview you totally lied about us and misrepresented us." And he said, "But that wasn't me." And I said, "Well it's highly likely it's going to be you. However the truth is that the issue I have is with the company you work for so my suggestion is to go back to the company you work for, which is Channel 9 in Australia, and say to them this: 'When you're willing to undo the false stuff that you presented last time, and publicly air the fact that you presented all this false material last time, then I am perfectly happy to do an interview with you again.' You say that to them." And I even said to them that it's an opportunity for them to prove that there is some integrity in the media. And he said to me, "Yep, the likelihood of that happening is zero."

**Participant** : Is Channel 7 and Channel 9 connected? Is it the same company?

No.

**Participant** : Or Channel 9 also did it?

Channel 9 did a series of shows over three days in Australia. The reason why they did it over three days is they got the highest rating for the first couple of days with their show and so they did it for three days. And it was all just about misinformation. We don't want to go into all of the details but it's a lot of lies. [00:13:14.17]

**Participant** : It is interesting because the woman who was sitting there, she said she worked with the Dallas Cowboys, and I was going back to my room and she stopped me and asked me if I would just be willing to answer some questions. And I said, "Sure." And so every question they asked I gave them an honest answer and it wasn't what they wanted to hear. And they kept trying to get me to say something else.

Exactly!

**Participant** : Like, "Do you believe he's Jesus?" And I said, "Well that doesn't matter." "But do you personally?" I said, "Well, not the Jesus that everyone has changed and made what they want it to be." But I know that'll be edited out. So it'll be interesting to see if any of it is kept and how they work it.

Yeah. And it's highly likely that there were some microphones being used while you were being asked questions because there was a camera on me the entire time that I was being asked questions when I said no to an interview. So we'll see what happens with that too. And what I like about all these interactions is that each step they take, they demonstrate their own deceit. And that's a very good thing because eventually all of us will start questioning whether what we're seeing on the media is actually real. Now many of you have seen already in England, yes? Have you heard about the big media furore in England that occurred through Murdoch publishing? Yes? And lots of journalists are even being indicted for...?

**Mary** : Can't remember... some have been put in jail.

Some have been put in jail or they have to go to court. They've been put under arrest for illegal tapping and so forth. This happens very frequently and all they're doing is demonstrating their own evil intent, their deceit and so forth. And the best way to combat it is with...? Love!

Love! And the guy couldn't understand yesterday why I wouldn't want to have an interview, given the power of the media. And he couldn't understand me saying no to him at all. So he just went on and on and on. I said, "No" again, "No" again and, "No" again and, "No it's not going to happen." And he just went on and on and on trying to come up with reasons why I should do it. And the reason why is because they actually do believe that I'm the person who's deceitful. So they believe that I would definitely take the option if I had it. They believe that I'm trying to get power over people; that's what they believe. And they can't understand me at all at the moment, which is really interesting I find because they've never met a person like me, to be frank, who does not utilise whatever media is at their disposal to do whatever they desire to do. And so they're all having a lot of trouble with me in Australia and elsewhere. When we go back to the UK, we've got another interview, a journalist over there who wants to interview us as well. [00:16:45.21]

**Participant** : We saw the opportunity to give you a good rap.

It won't come across that way and you fell into the trap of evil, actually, to be frank. Yes, you did – you fell into the trap of evil, and this is something I want to discuss with you.

11.1. When to speak up for truth vs. when not to engage with evil

Mary: This in an interesting ethical question for me about where is the line where we speak for truth and where is the line where we say, "Now I'm engaging with evil"?

Falling into the trap of evil is all about your emotion. It's not about what you do. It's about the emotion you exchange with evil. Now most of us don't understand what I've just said so I'll elucidate.

11.1.1. Engaging with evil through our addictions is unloving

When we have an emotion, an addiction - so let's say my addiction is I feel the world is unjust; let's say that's the feeling that I have inside of me, and the addiction is I want to make the world just, as a result of this addiction. So I want to try to force the world to face its own injustice and make the world change. So when I have this unjust feeling within me, where I feel a lot of grief about injustice that I have not allowed myself to feel, what happens is I go around then trying to make the world just. I have this feeling coming out of me that I'm going to try to force situations and everything into being just.

So when somebody from the media comes along with a camera and he's got a spirit or two with him, he knows exactly what to manipulate. He just tries with different hooks and usually they have spirits helping them do this; a person in the spirit world going, "Yeah, this person's got this issue with injustice. All you've got to do is say something that makes them feel this issue with justice and they'll talk for the next hour." And in that talking you'll get a lot of footage. You'll get a lot of footage about all sorts of things that you can then manipulate and carefully edit. Cut out this 10 seconds and that 20 seconds and before you know it, you've got the person saying almost totally the opposite thing to what they were actually saying, just by this editing process, right? [00:19:36.07]

An unloving interaction with an evil person, who has a spirit with them, is to engage in the unjust addiction

So what the problem is, is this emotion inside of me has actually allowed me to be hooked into the process that evil then uses to meet its own ends. It actually allows me to start to feel this addiction of mine, which is, "I want to make the world just. I want to make the world just. So now I've got an opportunity in front of the camera, the media that might go to air, is I'm going to take this opportunity and make the world just." And in that process the person on the other end of the camera is just merrily taking away the footage saying, "Yeah because we can skilfully edit all of this footage," to the point where what you've said is unrecognisable. That's the reality.

If you were aware of this emotion within you, you wouldn't engage the media just because of the emotion, but most of us do. We engage them just because of a specific emotion within us.

11.1.2. Love offers the truth to evil without engaging in addictions

So when I am in truth I will engage the person who's in evil in a state of love. In this state of love, I recognise that they're going to use information against me. I understand that that's their purpose because I can feel their purpose. I can feel their intention because when you're in a state of love, you can automatically feel people's intentions quite clearly. But I will still tell them the truth once. To give them an opportunity to change, I will engage them. Not to fulfil my own addiction but to give them the opportunity to change.

In the first instance I'm engaging them to fulfil my feeling that I want to make the world just, which is an addiction that I have and therefore I'm in an addictive relationship with an evil person who is going to manipulate this thing. Guaranteed, pretty much! When I'm in a state of truth I'm aware that they're going to manipulate anything I say, but because I'm in a state of love I will give them the gift of this truth for the first time. I won't continue to engage in it and continue engaging it; of giving them the gift of truth and see whether they take the opportunity to change. If they take the opportunity to change, that's fantastic. If they demonstrate their evil, then the next time they ask you for another opportunity, you tell them about their evil. [00:22:35.06]

A loving interaction with an evil person who is spirit influenced is to offer them the truth once

You say, "No, no. Last time I engaged this opportunity with you, you manipulated the truth. You have demonstrated to me that you're evil. And you need to change before I will actually engage you again." And this man went through all sorts of things. He asked for forgiveness and all those kind of things. He tried to manipulate out of me an interview and I just said, "You don't understand. You still don't understand." And every time he'd come up with another explanation. I said to him, "You don't understand again. You don't understand. I'm not upset. It's an issue of truth! You're out of harmony with truth. I can't re-engage it. I can't. Until you get into harmony with truth somehow, I can't re-engage it." [00:23:26.11]

And then he'd come up with another explanation. And I said, "You still don't understand. I'm not angry. I can't re-engage you because you're out of harmony with truth. I can't do it." And then he comes up with another explanation. I said, "I'm sorry you still don't understand." And I said to him a number of times like that, "You do not understand me at all because you don't understand that I'm only going to engage you when you now prove to me that your organisation," Channel 9 in this case, in Australia," is actually going to deal with me with integrity and truth. They're the only types of relationships I want in my entire life. I only want integrity and truth type relationships. Your company has demonstrated, and your actions today have demonstrated to me that you're totally out of harmony with that. So I can't engage with you."

Mary: So I feel it's very clear because you're in a state of love with these people and I observed you last night, you were very loving to everyone in the room, including the guys who had come to expose something, and then with the journalist afterwards. For me, as all of you know, in Australia I did some interviews with the media and I was very afraid, so that's not love. But I had a feeling in me of... some of it I can see was error; some of it was a bit "stand by your man," which is not a loving thing.

No.

Mary: But I did have a sense of, "I don't want to hide who I am. I feel someone's come knocking on my door and asked me about myself. If I hide this, then I'm not honouring the truth of what I feel, what my experience is." So I engaged with that process and it was scary. And also then they completely falsified everything about us, and tried to make me look crazy as well as you. And I didn't grieve about that either properly.

This was our first set of interviews in Australia.

Mary: Yeah. So yesterday, when the media guys came, I immediately just started shaking. The fear that I was denying about the past experience was with me then. Not for any rational reason. I knew what they were going to do. I knew what it was all about but I just couldn't stop shaking. And then when you were speaking with the guy I felt this feeling of, "There's truth here," but I could feel there was a pressure behind me wanting to say the truth. I felt, "I need to..."

There was anger in it.

Mary: There was beginning to be anger that I wanted to put out there because I felt they'd done me wrong. So I had to shut up and just sit there. I guess why I'm explaining all this is because I feel that a lot of people here, as well as myself, still grapple with, "When am I loving? When am I just saying truth? When is it right to sit back and own my stuff?" Because I do feel there is an issue of hiding ourselves and hiding our truth, which is not honouring our experience or love or God or any of those things.

The key, I feel, is more about your own addiction. So you need to recognise your own addictions, for example your addiction towards justice, like I mentioned earlier. So yesterday, during the conversation that we had with the media people, Mary actually could feel the injustice of the whole thing and she wanted to speak up about it and in particular she felt the injustice with the woman who was present. Didn't you? [00:27:24.24]

Mary: I felt she was being dishonest. She may go to church and be a Christian but the way she asked her questions it was, wait until the camera was on you and it was also specifically phrased to get you to say, "I'm..." She wasn't telling us the truth.

No.

Mary: And even when I confronted that in her she denied it again.

She denied it again. And then at that moment you were a bit upset, once she denied it the second time. And that's when Mary had to just be quiet after that because that's when it gets out of hand, you see. One of the things I didn't cover with you yesterday, is what we do. What evil does, the psychology of evil, is what I'd like to probably mention to you first before we talk about how it's resolved.

11.1.3. Fear prevents us from seeing others' evil intentions

Participant: I'm a little uncertain. It felt like there was a red flag on that side of the room, and then I was like, "I'm not too sure what that is, like I don't want to be judgmental." And later on there was an uneasy feeling when the media came in and I felt a little anxiety.

Well Mary had a lot of anxiety.

Participant: Yeah I felt a little a bit of anxiety and then I was like, "Okay, well, I don't know what to do." So I mean I just thanked you guys and then I went on my way. But I didn't recognise the full intention. I just felt a slight red flag, like something's unsafe here.

So what causes us to not see the full intention? There's obviously a denial of the full intention. Because the reality is we can feel everyone around us if we're open to the feelings of everyone. So when I don't feel the full intention of a person that means I'm quite frightened of their full intention. And that causes us to be quite shut down to what they're actually considering doing. [00:29:22.19]

Participant: I want to say something of my part in it all, and my own addiction of, "Oh I can help them. I know that." I was in the lobby and I overheard the reception person saying, "AJ Miller, no, no he's not here. He's not here." And he said it a couple of times, "No, he's not here. AJ Miller? No." And I assumed I can help, I know he's here. Somebody is ringing if it's happening here. And so I said, "No, no he's here. AJ and Mary are here." And she said, "Mary? Mary?" And she looked it up, "Oh, Mary Luck!" And so then I felt guilty.

So she already had a list of the names.

Participant: No, the reception people said that on the phone, "Mary... oh it could be Mary Luck."

The booking's in Mary's name.

Participant: But actually there was a slight thing in my mind, spirits or not, to actually not do what I usually do and say, "Yeah, yeah, I know it. I can help you." But I didn't listen to that because of my addiction to, "Oh I can help."

There were a number of situations. Mary was in an addiction too. So what happened for Mary is that the guy came in and asked to bring a camera in and I said to Mary, when she talked to me about it in the break, I said, "Well who are they from?" She said, "I didn't check." And I said, "Well, if they're from Channel 9 or Channel 7 then we don't want them here. And that needs to be explained. So why didn't you ask?" And Mary then realised the reason why she didn't ask was because she was afraid, so she just felt she had to conform. [00:31:01.03]

Mary: I was very certain that they wouldn't film you guys without your consent but I knew AJ is okay to be filmed but I was so terrified that I didn't ask.

Whereas what I would have done, if it were me on the doorway, I would have said, "Yeah who are you from?" And they would have gone, "Channel 9 in Australia". And I would have said, "Well yeah the last time I did interviews with you guys you just completely falsified the entire thing." And in fact myself and Mary received about 1000 emails of threatening, death threats and all sorts of things as a result of their presentation, which was all false information that they presented. And I would have said, "So no, you can't come in." And I would have left it like that, if it were me. And the reason why is I'm not afraid of what the media will do with that either. They can say, "He's making closed meetings now." And that's fine too, you know. [00:31:56.05]

Participant: Secret cult meetings.

Yeah, secret cult meetings!

11.1.4. Our emotional injuries can confuse the truth

Participant: AJ, they asked me if I thought you were Jesus. And I said, "Well it doesn't matter. The message is good." And then I said, "Well, look, horses don't have baby chickens." I said, "Even religions say that God is our Father. That means we're at least 'God-lets'". Correct? I mean how could we be anything other than God if God is our Father? Like I said, "Horses don't have baby chickens. So what AJ is doing here is helping us find that God within ourselves, and that's a very good thing."

Well it's very interesting you say because that's not what I'm doing.

Participant: Well, that's what I was wishing you were doing! But anyway, I'm not at all addicted, I get media coverage in Arizona a lot and sometimes it's good, sometimes it ain't, and I'm not addicted to it one way or another. It's just kind of fun to me. But I think that I was standing up for you, but not in a way that would make it seem like, "Oh I'm here to protect AJ" or anything.

But can you see you thought you were standing up for me but you actually presented an untruth about what I'm teaching?

Participant: That's a bummer. Sorry about that.

That's okay. This often happens in Australia too, where somebody thinks they're standing up for me because they think I'm a nice fellow but they actually then say something about my teachings that are not true. [00:33:39.11]

Participant: I guess it would be about my own...

Exactly! And so therefore there's a bit of an addiction about presenting your own ideas about something rather than what I'm actually saying about it. And that's fine; you're allowed to do that. So if you think about what the media's going to do with that now. Because now they're going to say that I'm teaching people they can be God, when the reality is I am not.

Participant: If in fact they actually put on what I said about God is our Father, we must be at least "God-lets" that should get some people thinking about something.

Sure. But it actually misrepresents what I'm teaching.

Participant: Yeah, well. Sorry about that.

It's okay. But this is where we often fall into traps, you see, because of different emotions we have. We fall into traps. So the emotion you had was, "I want to help AJ out here. He's a nice chap. He's a nice fellow. And yeah, this is an opportunity." That's the addiction; the addiction to help somebody out who seems to be in trouble. And I don't feel like I'm in trouble with the media at all. But that addiction causes us to take an action that then is based on some of our emotions that get infected into the action and then gets misrepresented. And that's often what happens. So in Australia we've had many of our friends get interviewed, many of whom misrepresented what I taught as a result. They just like me; they know I'm a nice fellow. They can feel my integrity and they can feel my love for them but they don't agree with everything that I'm teaching them of course. And that's okay. Like I still love them even though they don't agree with everything I'm teaching. But then when the media interviews them, they then tell their part and that just confuses the waters in terms of what finishes up getting presented. [00:35:26.02]

Participant: Well that's good then we confused them then. That's good.

11.1.5. The truth is always enlightening and never confusing

The truth never confuses anybody. The truth is always enlightening. This is why in the first century I used the terminology that, "You can become the light of the world only by being in a state of truth and love." And that's why I also used the term, "The truth will set you free." Because the truth has so much power! If we confuse people, we're actually adding to the confusion on the planet, and I don't feel that is a very loving action to take; to add to people's confusion. We want to take away from their confusion. We want to lighten things, show the light on things rather than cause them to still wander around blindly in the dark, as I often mentioned people were doing in the first century.

This is one thing I would like to discuss about the evil side of thing; what actions we take in the justification of ourselves that often can be associated with or pander to evil. And it's very important for us to see these things. [00:36:47.03]

Participant: So in my going to my room and this lovely woman misrepresenting herself, coming after me, I was in really a state of love and appreciation...

Can I firstly address what you called her: "A lovely...?"

Participant: Outside; her facade. A lovely facade!

I agree totally.

Participant: So a lovely facade but here's the thing. Even though I see that it's a lovely facade, I feel her. I feel a part of her that was... a deeper place. There's something in me feels a deeper place in her. So I'm not pushing away from the facade. So when they came to me and asked if I would be open to answer a few questions, I didn't feel the need to. I didn't feel like the desire to but I just felt the willingness to. And in love! And so each time when a question was asked, I could feel them wanting to steer me, like cattle.

11.1.6. The loving response to the evil act of being manipulated

This is where you're actually confusing yourself. The fact that you felt she wanted to steer you, it indicates that you saw the manipulation. You felt yourself being steered, so you saw the manipulation.

Participant: Halfway through.

So even if it was half way through, that's fine, you saw the manipulation. So you realised that you were being manipulated. Now if you were in a state of love you would have stopped the conversation at that point and you would have told her the truth. "You are now just attempting to manipulate me. This is not very nice." Now in that process of telling her the truth you are actually being far more loving than you were up to that point, because she now has the opportunity to change something that's unloving within her. So when you feel yourself being manipulated by another person, at that moment if you are in truth, at that moment you would stop. You would stop the entire conversation and if you loved the person, you would extend the truth to them. "You are now manipulating me. Very interesting! Why would you want to do that? What's your motive for trying to manipulate me?" [00:39:35.24]

That then would have turned into a very different conversation. She would have either got very angry with you or denied it all or all those kind of things.

Participant: It was only when he asked me questions that felt clear when the question was asked like, "Do you believe he is Jesus?"

But this is where you felt some time during the interview that you were being manipulated and a loving course of action would have been to address it. Right there and then! Now for the majority of us we don't address it there and then because?

Participant: We're afraid.

We're afraid of what's going to happen after that.

11.1.7. Reasons for not being able to recognise evil

**Participant** : I had a very interesting truth; I was hit with something very interesting. I find myself to be like a vibey person and really good and like in tune with people's emotions on most days usually. And what I found was that I saw this girl and I thought she was so pretty and I was completely blindsided with her and her motivation. And because everyone was talking about it, I was like, "Her? She knew that guy?" And then when the gentleman came in, because I'm very sensitive to threatening and menacing men, of course...

Now you were sensitive to that.

**Participant** : Yes. And he came in to Mary and I just felt Mary's being just go, "Argh." And I was just like, "Oh my God I just want to like take this dude out the room because the whole energy of the whole space changed the moment he walked in; I felt that.

He was very rude even interrupting.

**Participant** : Yeah I really felt like that too, but I don't feel it's my place saying it to him but I wanted to rescue her.

Well it is always your place to say something.

**Participant** : Oh it is?

"You're very rude interrupting us here."

**Participant** : Is it? Really?

Yeah.

**Participant** : Oh that's good to know.

You put up your hand and say, "AJ, can I have something to say?" "No worries" "This man's very rude interrupting." I would have said, "I agree." [00:41:31.03]

**Participant** : I just found it very interesting. I don't know if anybody can relate to how sometimes, you know, this external thing that I have an issue with, that I really like attractive people. And when people are very externally... what I find to be externally attractive, I become completely blindsided by...

Their true condition!

**Participant** : Yeah. And she was looking at people up and down and I could see that she had this thing. I was like, "Oh maybe she just has some mummy issue or something."

And this is what we often do as well. We look at the outward appearance of an individual and not see their true character. Or we overlook their true character because we like their outward appearance. And this often happens too.

**Participant** : I had the same reaction to her. When I saw her, "she's young and beautiful", and she was clear in her expression of what she said and I thought, "Wow, somebody from Texas who heard about you being here and high tailed it up here." I was completely taken by that.

She was being really deceitful.

**Participant** : And I didn't feel it, and again, because she was beautiful. The same thing! And also when the man walked in I had a different feeling about them.

Which indicates that there's an openness to a woman being evil. You allow the woman to be evil because of other things you're overlooking. But when the man walks in who you can feel is a bit evil, and then you're really confronted. [00:43:01.21]

**Participant** : I could feel a difference, that's all. I didn't think much about it.

So if you had spirits around us, which type of spirits would find it easy to manipulate you, if they're evil?

**Participant** : Women.

Yes, women who are evil.

**Participant** : And with him... he looked media, he was next to the cameraman or something I also had this thing about media, but I didn't think she had anything to do with it.

Exactly! Yes. Didn't you see she asked that question just when the camera's here? She had an opportunity for three and a half hours before then to ask the question. Didn't ask any of it! Just when the camera... she noticed when it went in, saw the interaction. Everything happened. Now she was in her actress mode. [00:43:42.15]

**Participant** : I had a totally different reaction. I didn't find her beautiful. I thought she was really repelled.

Because you're fairly sensitive to the spirits with her!

**Participant** : Right and in fact she wasn't even there, in her eyes.

That's correct.

**Participant** : She was totally completely overcloaked.

The spirits who are with her are very dark. Very dark spirits.

**Participant** : Yeah it was awful, it was painful for me. And the anger, the anger and the intensity of her energy! And I kept looking at her trying...

When you say the intensity of the energy, it's far better to define the emotion. So what emotions did you feel from her that confronted you? [00:44:19.00]

**Participant** : Anger.

So anger was one of them. So you felt her anger. You could actually see her anger in her face as well.

Participant: Well I felt a strong male presence with her. She looked masculine to me.

Very true, there are men spirits with her for sexual gratification, actually.

Participant: Right. And so then my question is was I supposed to do something about that? Because I just sat there, going, "Okay".

You don't have to do anything about it. All we need to do is just feel about it because when we feel about it, we go, "Okay there's this person. What do I feel about her? Oh, a bit afraid of a woman's anger," for example. So anything that makes you feel sensitive or makes you feel uncomfortable is always a great indication that there's something underneath that you need to allow yourself to go into. So while I was speaking I could feel this corner being in a different space to the rest of you present and I allowed myself to feel any discomfort about all that.

So I allow myself to feel it and in the process of allowing myself to feel it, hopefully I'll deal with something in that process. And all I did was wait, wait, wait, wait for the undoubtable reason why they were there to appear. Interestingly enough, Mary and my spirits guides said to us in the morning that something would happen but they didn't give Mary the complete details because Mary would have pre-empted the fear rather than feeling it. So they didn't tell us the complete details of it. [00:46:09.19]

Participant: Hi. I actively felt something as well from Les but I chose to engage her and ask her why she was here and she turned and looked at me, I couldn't even hear what she said because of that darkness that I completely felt. But I was so engaged in what you were talking about, I wasn't even aware of the camera and all that was going on. When she asked you that question, I second guessed myself and I do that a lot with not trusting that; I call it the "safety shutoff valve," within myself to know that I have that awareness. I can know that truth about somebody.

Yes so what happens with a lot of people, and this is something that's happening for yourself, is you instantly feel that fear that the darkness brings up in you. And then we automatically try to detune from this fear but the problem with detuning from the fear is we're now not sensitive to our inclination of we should do. You see? What we finish up doing then is we finish up actually not listening to this little inner voice that we've got, going, "No, no, something's wrong here. Something's wrong here." And we continue to engage the situation in the facade rather than engaging it at the actual level. So engaging it at the actual level would be, "No, there's something wrong here. I don't actually believe what you're saying to me." And you're allowed to say that, by the way, to people. "I don't believe what you're saying to me."

Participant: My Law of Attraction continuously presents that to me, those situations, and I haven't got into really feeling the emotion behind that and the injuries with my parents. But intellectually I know it at least now.

You know it's there. See the beauty of our law of attraction, well God's Law of Attraction with your soul condition, is that the Law of Attraction is bringing you the events usually day by day, hour by hour, minute by minute. And most of the time it's like, that one went past, that one went past, that one went past. That one went past. "Oh yeah I saw that one!" And so forth. That's a lot of times how the Law of Attraction works for us. Yeah. [00:48:27.14]

Participant: So, AJ, when he came in and he sat by me somehow he knew I was the hostess or something. And that is uncomfortable for me. So he was asking me if he could film and I was like, "Usually AJ lets you film. Go ask Mary." It was like, throw it at Mary! But that felt bad because I could tell she was really uncomfortable.

It was really good for Mary.

Mary: It was absolutely perfect. I have a lot of gratitude that it worked the way it did because it triggered everything in me. And I had to make the call. It was me. It wasn't AJ and I'm like, "Argh!" [00:49:06.06]

And that's good for her to do as well.

Participant: And then when I could tell he was trying to use his charms on me. He's like, "Hey, you're in charge." And then when he asked to interview me I thought I was trying to address my fears because I'm afraid to be on camera. But I thought I did pretty good and I thought, "Well I'll just look right at him," and he started to tear up and I thought, "Okay," you know, "I am affecting him?" When I went home and Tom said he'd noticed it too and I thought, "Well maybe he was trying to manipulate me to get me to cry," when I was talking to him because he maybe noticed I was getting nervous. [00:49:47.10]

In Australia, most of the interviewers are looking for people to go through an emotional reaction while they're interviewing them. In the presentation sometimes there are people who cry because of what they say to me and my openness to what hearing they're saying about their life and so forth. The camera goes straight onto them every single time. There was one person in Australia who was spirit overcloaked at the back of the room, and he was on the floor, overcloaked. And it's none of my business, he's allowed to be overcloaked if he wants to be, but the cameras went straight on him to show all of that. And that's what they're looking for; they're looking for controversial footage so that they can display things that this is what's going on with the cult leader, that he's manipulating their emotions and all those kind of things. [00:50:42.13]

12. Negative spirit influence towards Divine Truth on Earth

It's a very clever facade manipulated by a lot of very dark spirits trying to muddy the waters of Divine Truth on the planet, basically. That's the underlying cause. It's interesting... like I said to the guy yesterday, I said, "Look, there's hundreds of thousands of other guys claiming to be Jesus on this planet. Why is it that you're following me around?" They don't realise but the only reason they're following me around is because the spirits with them know that I'm the actual Jesus. That's the only reason they're following me around. Because the spirits with them want to muddy the waters associated with anything to do with myself. And this has been going on now for quite a few years in the spirit world and now the media's involved, it's going to probably go on for a while yet.

Participant: Is the reason that they want to muddy the waters of you spreading the Divine Truth... is it because this group of spirits does not want to deal with what is going on with them emotionally?

12.1. Areas on Earth that are influenced by evil spirits in the hells

Well that's an underlying reason but see when we examine the real emotional causes for anybody; we need to actually go from the top down in terms of analysing the reason. The top layer is this - the spirits in the hells have control of the Earth. They're in the darkest of the hells; they have control of the Earth. They have control of the Earth in a number of different areas.

12.1.1. Women spirit influence

There's women spirits who have control of most women on the earth. And the way that they approach control is that they are attempting to influence every single woman in a partnership or in a family to actually dominate the male in the relationship or in the family. That's what they're trying to do. Their idea is you don't conquer from the top down; you conquer from the bottom up, from the family up. They feel that if you can conquer every family by having the woman be the ruler of each family then eventually the women will rule the world. That's their viewpoint.

These are all people who want to rule the world, by the way. There's another group of people in the spirit world who are very interested in the politics and the economics; in the spirit world I'm talking about now. There are groups of spirits who are very interested in these two areas. And then there's another group of spirits who are interested in the religious area, in the area of religious control. Now can you see that if you cover those four areas primarily, you've basically got control of the entire world? Pretty much. Now, when Jesus comes to earth, and whether you believe if I am Jesus or not, it's immaterial... when Jesus comes to earth, what's he going to confront? [00:53:58.14]

Participant: All of it.

Truth confronts all areas of evil spirit influence on Earth

He's going to confront every one of those systems by...? What confronts it? Truth! Truth confronts every system. As each truth hits the universal stage, all of these areas are going to be confronted. The people who have these spirits with them don't realise this. They don't even understand why they're following me around. Every time they come to interview they think, "He's just an ordinary guy, pretty boring to talk to." They do! I can feel their feelings quite strongly and every single person who comes to interview me does not even know why their producer sent them to interview me, except for the claim that I'm Jesus. But, like I said, there's hundreds of thousands of other people on the planet claiming to be Jesus and they don't go and interview them. In Australia there's about 12 or 13 that I've heard of that are not committed in asylums who are saying they're Jesus. And they never go and interview them. [00:54:55.05]

And the reason why is because the spirits who are at the bottom of the hells and who are with these people know who is going to be the person that affects them the most. If Divine Truth ever gets a foothold on the planet, they realise it's going to have a huge impact on their lives. You see at the moment the Earth is basically surrounded by what you would call earth bound spirits who are totally interested in domination of the planet in an evil sense. Now if the earth raises its condition into the second dimension, so if everyone here on the earth actually raised their condition to the second dimension in terms of their condition of love, not a single one of those spirits could ever influence the earth again.

Now you imagine what that feels like for those spirits. All of their control would be gone. All of their manipulation would be gone. All of their addictions could no longer be met. They would be in the state now where none of their current frenzies could be engaged. That would have a powerful effect upon them. They'd be forced by the situation to go and deal with something. Now they know that. These spirits know that. And so there is a very, very strong feeling of all of these spirits banding together in order to primarily attack myself at this point in time, so that none of the truths about any of these systems, about the errors in any of these systems actually come out, or that anybody really notices them and still continues to allow them to be present. [00:56:44.09]

This is something that I've been aware of, of course, for a long time, for 2000 years, in terms of what's actually going on in the spirit world with regard to control of the earth. However, most people on the earth are not aware of the level of control that these spirits have over you.

12.1.2. Economic influence

Your entire economic system was first created in fact, conceived in the mind of the spirits who control the economic systems of the world. The people on earth were manipulated into forming that system. You've had I think its four presidents who tried to disband the system, because they recognise its evil; every single one of them was assassinated. So the reality is these spirits have a very strong control over the Earth and its systems.

12.1.3. Religious influence

If you look into the religious side of things, there is this very strong movement towards what I would call fundamentalism.

Participant: The car bomber.

Yes, where they justify religiously acts of violence. In other words they religiously justify evil. So there is a very strong motivation from spirits who are in the deep hells who are using religion as a means to control. Their belief is they're doing God a favour. Every person they kill who's of an opposite religion, they're doing God a favour. They believe they're worshipping God this way. When you talk to them, and we have, they cannot see the error of what they're doing at all. They believe very, very strongly in their cause. They are like the spirits in the Catholic inquisition. Do you remember them? The people, the Pope and the other religious people in the Catholic inquisition during the 15th, 16th centuries, they justified rape, murder, and all sorts of things with a religious justification. [00:58:56.03]

You know they had the test? What did they call it? What they would do is generally they would hang somebody up waiting for a confession. If you never confessed, then you would die and that would prove your innocence. So they would torture you and torture you until you died. And then when you died, that was proof that you were innocent. If you submitted and said, "No, no I have done something wrong," then that was proof of your guilt. That's evil, is it not? The people who lead the religious movements in the spirit world are those spirits.

Participant: I'm a little confused. Are there over-cloaking spirits working on the earth right now that are positive? And at the same time, I'm a little confused about spirit-guided messages. How do we know?

Mary: What occurred to me was you're talking about these spirits, so it's about spirit influence. But these spirits are in positions of evil. And yesterday you touched briefly on the psychology of evil. And I was just reflecting on some of the points that I know you want to cover today, are a lot about the psychology of evil and how many of us carry the same injuries and this makes it very easy for these people to influence us because we do feel, "It is justified if someone's hurt me, I can hurt them back," which is actually evil. And these guys find it...

Quite easy to manipulate the earth and perhaps what we need to do is continue with our discussion that we started yesterday because that will enlighten things a fair bit.

13. The psychology of evil continued

So let's go to the psychology of evil just for a second because I think it's important to understand it. Because when we start understanding the psychology of evil, we start seeing that actually for many of us there are still evil tendencies within us individually. And this then helps us see how we are manipulated by other's evil. So let's begin with them. Now I've written some of them down because there was quite a few of them I wanted to mention. [01:02:48.11]

13.1. Justifications for carrying out evil

13.1.1. Others have attacked us first

A justification for evil is that others have attacked us first. So in other words, I was attacked by somebody, so that now justifies me attacking them in return. Now can you see this even goes down to someone was angry with me and I justify being angry with them in return because they started it. As long as they started it, we're perfectly happy to go into evil. Basically, that's what we're saying. As long as somebody else starts it, I'm perfectly happy to engage it. Now this concept is a very unloving concept but it is in many of us where we believe that it's okay to engage something as long as somebody else started it first. Now it goes right the way through to wars even. Somebody provokes, provokes, provokes, provokes until the provocation becomes too great and now; "They started it, we're going to finish it," is the attitude of evil.

13.1.2. Others may attack us first

The next one is others may attack is first. So if others look like they're going to attack us, so what we do is we attack them first! We pre-emptively strike against them. Your government has practiced this as a foreign policy. So can you see that causes things to escalate quite rapidly? You then become the provocateur. And this is a problem, this whole justification for pre-emptively acting against a person, even if it's in anger. So see if we reduce this down to just being angry, somebody does something and we feel anger, and then we go, "Well, you know, they've been angry with me in the past so that justifies me getting angry with them." Well now I'm in the cycle of evil. If it justifies me attacking them before they're even upset with me; that is also, I'm now in the cycle of evil.

13.1.3. Others don't do what I want

Others don't do what I want. Now it's amazing how often we use that as a justification to attack others. They're not doing what we want, we want them to do what we want, and we're willing to go to some kind of length. Often anger is again the length that we're limited to but you'll be surprised how many people resort to some other violence. We often see this acted out in the playroom or the classroom, where children are reflecting the unhealed emotions of their parents in the classroom environment. So a child attacks another child because the parent already has the belief that it's okay to do that because the child didn't get what it wanted. [01:06:47.01]

So it's not a justification for evil but we use it as one. And by the way whether what I wanted was wrong or right is immaterial because we always believe what we want is right. So for the person who engages this action, they're not concerned, "Well does God think that's right? Or does society feel that's right?" They're not concerned about any of those questions; they're only concerned about whether they think its right. That's all.

13.1.4. Others have been unjust

Others have been unjust. Our desire for justice gets us into huge amounts of trouble because true justice on the planet is very difficult to achieve given our personal limitations - that is humanity's limitations. When I say true justice, for example, let's say a murderer murders your child. How do you get true justice? Now most people would say, "Let's go and murder his child," or, "Let's murder the murderer." Do any of them bring you real justice? None of those acts actually brings you a feeling of satisfaction that you've got your child back.

To have real justice, we would have to have our child back and the person have some kind of punishment. For many of us that would be the satisfaction of real justice. But is it achievable? It's not achievable. We can't bring a person back if they're already dead and their silver cord's been broken, they're gone for good from this earth. When I say gone for good, in a physical form. Many of them are still surrounding the earth of course because of the different attractions that occur but we don't feel them as easily because we can't see them. And so we then go into this state where, "I've been treated unjustly." And we then go into this place where we justify evil acts because of the injustice that has been perpetrated towards ourselves. [01:09:11.04]

But there is no real justice here. Because you can't actually achieve it, particularly if someone's been murdered. You cannot achieve it. What if someone's been raped, how do you achieve that justice? How do you get justice if you've been raped?

Participant: Cut their nuts off.

But does that achieve justice? You've still been raped. The rape is still within you, is still a part of yourself. It still affects your entire life. It still affects your relationships. It affects who you're with. It affects their life. It affects so many different things, so you can't really achieve justice, can you?

Participant: You're probably stuck with forgiveness.

Well, you say we're stuck with forgiveness, but forgiveness is definitely an act of love. But we'll talk about how we forgive, because it's very important to understand how we forgive. But can you see when others have been unjust we have this immediate reaction, most of us, of, "How dare they!" The anger rises and then for many of us there's this automatic plan to even get them back that rises within us. Now we're in the cycle, the psychology of evil. This is what evil does. And it's okay to admit it, by the way. If you judge it you can't admit it, and if you can't admit it, you can't change it. So we need to stop judging evil and we need to start admitting to it when we are and then we'll have the option to change it when we can. [01:10:44.05]

13.1.5. Others are wrong

Others are wrong. There's another justification for evil. Religiously this has happened throughout history. I've got a whole society of people who believe a whole different type of faith, and we're going to murder them unless they convert. If you look throughout history with almost every religious war, this is the underlying principle. If the other person is wrong, and they don't change, I can murder them even to try to force them to be wrong. I can threaten them with their life to force them to accept that they're wrong. It is part of the psychology of evil. Can you see we even have that in a lot of our arguments with our wife or husband? Where we see our partner as wrong and then that justifies our anger with them. It's the anger that's now in the evil cycle. Because we've got this underlying feeling inside of us that, "They are wrong. They are wrong. They are wrong." And it keeps playing it out, playing it out. And then all these spirits come to us as well, "Yes, she's wrong! She's wrong! You've got to say she's wrong."

And then when you start saying it you've got all these spirits with all their rage that they've not yet resolved. And now by this time you're swearing and yelling at her about how wrong she is. Who's wrong? You've just entered the cycle of evil, you're wrong. In that place, you are out of harmony with love. So that's a very big motivation. Now can you see these three in particular (others don't do what I want, others have been unjust and others are wrong) are methods that most of us use as a justification for our unloving behaviour almost every day. Can you see if the world's going to change on this issue, we're going to need to start to see where we justify our own actions that are evil. [01:13:00.16]

Mary: And it's really fair to say that every spirit, every soul in the hells, carries those belief systems.

Every soul in the hells. I've yet to meet a person in the hells who hasn't got all of those beliefs actually regarding their justification of their evil acts.

Mary: So it's really for them and for us to confront that these things aren't serving us in love in our life but also that they're evil and they're not love.

The problem is though we do think they're serving us... that's the problem.

Mary: So that's what we have to see, isn't it? This isn't serving us. They don't see that and often I feel I don't see that sometimes.

Well you look at the spirits we spoke to yesterday, the women who'd been raped and murdered in the spirit world now, when I tried to discuss some of these things with them they were instantly confused and they were trying to say, "But these men hurt us." I said, "I know they hurt you. I know they hurt you. I'm not saying they didn't hurt you. I'm saying that while you then use that hurt as a justification to hurt other men on the earth through the women that you're using to attack these men, you are now hurting men. So you're doing the same as what other people have done to you." This is the problem; we justify doing the same thing as what others have done. [01:14:25.17]

13.1.6. People are unjust in their carrying out of evil

But unfortunately we're not even that just about it. Because here's the person who's been harmed, here's the person who harmed him. What finishes up happening is that the person who has been harmed generally is so afraid of the person who did the harming; they don't try to harm the person back. What they do is they choose another person of the same gender who's easier to harm. And then they harm them. Every single paedophile does this. This is their mum, in many cases, or their dad. And they've been harmed by their mum or their dad. Instead of trying to harm their mum or dad back, what do they do? They choose a child, generally of the same gender as where they received the hurt from, and they try to harm the child. It's the same principle.

A man who has been abused by his parents abuses a child because he is afraid to harm his parents

Participant: I'm just wondering if that same issue, if we would perpetrate into our spouses as well, if we had say a damaging father and he was very controlling.

We do it all the time with our spouses, all the time. So here's our father, who we are still afraid of, even though we're a grown woman. Here am I, his daughter. Now we won't say to our father, "You've been a bad father. You've been terrible. You treated me badly," and all those kind of things because we'll just get more treated badly and often we're still seeking love from him.

Participant: And approval.

And approval and acceptance and so forth so what we do is we marry someone who's not like our father, who's almost the opposite of our father, who allows us to abuse him. And he puts up with it. And now we have the satisfaction that we take out all of this stuff on him, most of his life, and yet the person who really deserved it was our father. If anybody deserved it was the father, not the spouse; he's a nice man. Do you think he's going to end up a nice man if we do that? It's highly unlikely, that this man's going to have to be a very spiritually developed man to end up a nice man after being attacked by his wife for 30 years. [01:16:50.12]

A woman who is afraid of her evil father finds a male spouse who she can treat badly

So this is the cycle that we start the processing of and it's very important to see that this is what is going on. We're not even just with the way in which we use our rage. We use our rage against a person who will accept it, so it's accepted by this person when the person who created our rage and our pain was our father. If we were just, we would put it against that person, our father. But we're not being just because we're afraid to be just. So what we do is we put it against our spouse. Many relationships play out like that.

I once spoke to a spirit in the spirit world; he came and visited me five or six years ago. He was a man who had reached the third sphere condition in the spirit world by the time he came to have a chat with me and his wife had only just passed. He had passed six years prior to his wife. Now in those six years he had six years without his wife. And that caused him to be able to progress but as soon as his wife entered the spirit world, he felt drawn to go to where she was. Now she was in the hells and she didn't understand why she was in the hells and she wanted him to get her out of the hells. So she kept projecting at him, "You've got to get me out of the hells, it's all your fault that I'm here," and he was still in this addiction with her, feeling that it was his fault. [01:18:17.23]

But every time he'd go back to the hells he'd feel terrible of course because he could live in the third dimension, which if you compared the two places, is totally different to each other. And so they both came to me to work out why he felt so drawn to go back down to her. And she was swearing and carrying on and saying how he should be there with her and so on and she was quite upset. And when I explained to him that he was just accepting the rage of the woman all of his life, he just broke down and cried for quite some time during our discussion. As soon as he did that he realised that he didn't even love his wife. And when we started talking about the soulmate issue, he realised that he was actually gay. He'd been living with a woman who was like his mother for forty something years on earth. He had a heart attack as a result, because he died from the sadness in his heart. And he passed over in the spirit world not realising that as soon as she passed he'd be drawn back exactly the same way into exactly the same relationship again. It's the same dynamic playing out. Exactly the same!

13.1.7. We are in "pain" that we don't want to feel

Now there's a few more we wanted to add to these. There are a fair few already when you think about it. We are in "pain" - and I put pain in quotations because a lot of times what we think is painful is not that painful, that we don't want to feel. Now this is by the way personally or as a society. Many societies get to be in pain. So for example, economic pain of the society causes many societies to justify attacking another society that has less economic pain. This is exactly the justification that Hitler connected to in the German people before World War Two. Because of the suppression from the treaties that happened in the 1920s, the German race felt under suppression economically and developmentally. And as a result of that all of the German people generally had the psyche inside of themselves, this emotion inside of themselves of, "We're being oppressed by other countries. We're being controlled by other countries." [01:21:03.09]

A leader comes along and just expresses the exact emotion that all of the people felt. "We're oppressed economically and developmentally by other countries." They all agreed and so they support him. It doesn't matter what his other agendas are. They're automatically feeling a justification to take action. "We are in pain that we don't want to feel," is a huge motivation that we have to actually take out our pain on others.

13.1.8. We are in "discomfort" that we don't want to feel

We can even go down to "We are in discomfort," but even discomfort is often a justification. We're uncomfortable. This can be personally or as a society. Our discomfort, our addictions to comfort are huge. In Western society they're huge. Most of you on a daily basis would not be able to put up with what happens in the third world without having huge amounts of emotional responses to it. Many of us criticise the violence in those nations, not understanding that if we put ourselves in those exact same conditions, there's a high likelihood we would also turn to the same kind of violence. And in Western society we are addicted to our comforts. We are so addicted to our comforts that we're willing to rape other countries that are less wealthy than ourselves in order to support those comforts. That's the reality of our life. [01:22:40.20]

In fact it is my very strong belief that unless Western society changes, the world has no hope to change. We have a responsibility to change first in Western society. We have the most comfort. We have a responsibility to change first.

13.1.9. We do not get what we feel we deserve

And then last one I've written down, "We do not get what we feel we deserve." Now in different countries what you feel you deserve is different. And that is very, very dependent on what you grow up with. Very dependent on what society you've grown up with. So if you grow in one type of society you might not have very strong opinions of what you feel you deserve in the same line as other societies. So in America what do you feel you deserve? There is this American dream that is portrayed, isn't there? What's the American dream? We all deserve to have freedom, a house, wealth, happiness, electricity, and a vehicle that we can drive at any time. Now if you grow up in El Salvador, which is not that far south. Would you think a car is a God-given right? No. It's highly unlikely you'd think a car is a God-given right.

Participant: Not even a donkey.

Not even a donkey, yeah. You'd be lucky to get a donkey, actually. So you'd be in a totally different state. If you were down there would you think that a big two story 5000 square feet home would be a right? You'd be lucky to have a one room home to call your own, and own probably. Would you feel even running water is a right in some countries? No. You'd have to go and actually walk for 2 or 3 kilometres with a donkey thing on your shoulder, and carry the water home for the day. So you wouldn't even think that is a right. [01:25:12.11]

Can you see it just depends where we've grown up to as to what we believe is a right?

Participant: With regards to El Salvador it's interesting that you mentioned that because you knew my e-wife, Yesinia. She has associates in that country; that's where she's from. And there were actually people she knows who've been murdered because of jealously of having a possession, that others didn't have. Just that jealous emotion caused a death.

So this idea that if we don't get what we feel we deserve is very different for every country. Some countries have a much lower expectation of what they deserve than other countries. Other countries have a very, very high expectation of what they deserve. One thing that fascinates me about your shopping here is your food shopping. Because there is a very high expectation in every American of what they feel they deserve to see in a shop. Every single American that's ever come to visit me has been severely challenged by what's in our shops in Australia because it's not exactly what they expected to see. Because of this emotion, "I deserve it, where is it? What's going on? How do you live like this?" That is the way that many of them feel. [01:26:32.12]

And I've actually had them say that to me: "How do you live like this?" "Really easily actually." But it's interesting that we have a different level of what we feel we deserve. The problem with this, when we don't get what we feel we deserve is how we respond. You see it's always, with all of these things, it's how we're responding. I could come up with more of course but this is the basic underlying psychology of evil. This is where it all begins. This is where the unloving behaviour begins, where we feel the justification for these things.

Participant: When we don't get what we deserve it seems like we don't even have to have that but just to have the fear that we're not going to get what we want is enough to create the evil.

Very good point! Just the being afraid that you're not going to get what you want is enough sometimes for us to justify some very severe actions.

Participant: I noticed that in myself. In selling a lot of my stuff, if I don't think I'm getting what I deserve, I notice my desire to want to manipulate the truth and I'm catching myself on it and praying about it but it's there.

Pretty big emotion, yeah! It happened in our interaction with the concert in Australia when you were there.

Participant: That and some other things we've interacted about, yes, the desire to just shift the truth a little bit to my advantage.

Exactly!

Participant: I remember we went to go visit you all in Australia in 2009; I was astonished that you only had one flavour of humus! I told that story over and over, in outrage that, "You wouldn't believe how these savages live!"

And it's true, we do! The only time we have multiple flavours of humus is when we make it ourselves. Generally it's all very similar. Now we've had some changes recently that we now have multiple flavours of humus available in some supermarkets. But the reality is you have so much choice available to you here and right from the time you're babies you grow up with that choice that therefore you feel you deserve that choice. And then when you go to another country, the choice is not available, and so there's an instant feeling or reaction.

There's a camera crew here? Yeah, they're not coming back in, babe. They were just too deceitful yesterday for us to allow them back in today. I thought they might come today actually.

Okay, so can we see the psychology of evil? Yep. Okay. So, what do we do with it? This is a good question, isn't it? How do we overcome this with love? What would love do in these situations? That's what we want to look at now.

Love has Power over Evil: Part 3

So the object now was to look at the areas where, if we love ourselves, how it would affect this psychology of evil? Because remember it's really the psychology of evil that guides the planet at the moment. And you can see from our previous discussion that the psychology of evil actually is a lot of times in our selves too still. We still have some of those tendencies towards that kind of thinking. And there are many, many people in the hells of the spirit world who are dedicated to that kind of thinking. Their whole life is dedicated to continuance of that kind of thinking as well.

14. God created us perfect and with the ability to overcome evil and our flaws

And so what we need to do to break the cycle is to break the cycle of the psychology of evil. Break the cycle of our belief systems that cause us to have a tendency towards evil. Now it's very important to understand that God created us with the ability to overcome evil. God did not create us with an inherent feeling that we are always going to be evil. He never created us with a flaw. He created us perfect. Now because God created us perfect, any time that we justify evil as saying that it's because of the flaw that God created, we are really well out of line, or out of harmony with love in that place. Now can you see already that many religions automatically say that?

So automatically there's a disharmony with love and in fact, this whole idea that we were created with flaws or we were created sinners, as the terminology is often given; the whole idea that we were created sinners is itself a terrible blight on the truth about God. We're basically saying that God couldn't create us perfect; God had to put in some flaws or was so limited, God designed flaws inside of us as humanity. And nothing can be further from the truth actually. It is an underlying problem to believe. [00:04:50.18]

Now there are many billions of spirits in the spirit world in the first dimension of the spirit world, in the hells, who still believe in this concept that they were created with a flaw that they couldn't overcome all of their life. And they arrived in the spirit world with so much anger towards God because of the flaw, not understanding that God never created us with flaws and flaws entered us through a different process. Through a different process other than God creating them.

So we need to start with this basic understanding that we have the ability to be perfect. In the first century I said, "You must become perfect as your heavenly Father is perfect." We have the complete ability to become perfected in every aspect of our being; physically, emotionally, spiritually, every aspect of our being we have the ability to become perfect. If we remember that, every time we see a flaw, we won't go, "Oh I'm just going to accept this flaw." We will start to look at, "Well, I can release this flaw. I can get rid of this flaw if I do something about it." The problem with believing that we were created with flaws is there's this almost instant helplessness that happens. We instantly feel that it's a hopeless situation for us to ever achieve a better condition than what we're currently in. [00:06:23.12]

And because many people on the planet believe this, they make no personal attempt to better themselves. They make no personal attempt to remove their own flaws. And it's a terrible, terrible concept for us to continue believing that we need to have flaws of any kind. God created us perfect physically, emotionally, spiritually, and we have the ability to be perfect while we're living on earth. We don't have to become a spirit to become perfect. We have the ability to be perfect while we're living here.

We just need to be truthful about the flaws. We need to stop judging them, see them for what they are, identify them, and hopefully the previous discussion helped in that process. And then we want to see what would love do so that we can see, "Alright, this is what love does; this is what love wouldn't do."

14.1. Our actions are driven by our feelings, not our thoughts

Now, in every discussion where I talk about what love does, I need to remind you of one basic principle and that is this: doing comes from feeling. Now what I mean by that is whenever we go and do something, we are actually being driven by a feeling that causes us to do that thing. That feeling within us triggers a thought within our brain and the two things combine to cause us to generate desire. And once desire is generated then we will go from thinking and feeling something into actually doing it.

The reverse is also true, and that is, it is impossible to overcome an action unless you feel the cause of that action. You see many people in almost all forms of spiritual development say to you that you can do it before you feel it. They say to you that you can actually act in harmony with love without actually feeling in harmony with love. And as a result of that what many of us attempt to do is we try to act differently without feeling the reason why we have acted the way we've acted. So we try to act differently. [00:09:21.13]

I think Mary said... what was it, babe?

Mary: Trying is lying.

Trying is lying. (Laughter) What she means by that is that when we try to actually take the doing action, we try to act differently without actually feeling why we act the way we act, we are actually lying to ourselves. We're trying to falsify or put on a facade of what we really feel. To actually change our heart needs to change. Remember I said to you yesterday, if your heart doesn't change, in a nice relaxed situation you can think, "I'm going to do this." But when you put yourself under pressure or some pressure comes to you often your actions are very different. And the reason why they're different under pressure is because the feeling is still inside.

14.2. To change our behaviour we need to change our feelings

For example if we look at one of the justifications for the creation of evil, "Others denying our demands," when other people deny what I demand, I get angry and upset and then eventually I could even go worse than that. Now if I see that as something within myself, the fact that I demand things from others, I can try to no longer demand things from others. Good luck with that because after a while what will happen is, you'll try, you'll try, and then after a while some stressful situation will come up that triggers some fear within you or something like that and then what will happen is that all the trying in the world goes out the window and you're back doing exactly the same thing you were doing before under the same circumstance or situation. [00:11:20.10]

So we need to give up this concept that we can actually do something without actually changing a feeling within us. We have to actually change the feelings within us. And that often means releasing from us the opposite feeling. So if I have a feeling that I can demand something from Mary, then I have to allow myself to go through this emotionally and go, "Okay well, yes I believe I can demand it. Why do I feel I can?" And I have to get deeper into it and allow myself to see why I demand it and what the underlying emotion is inside of myself that I need to feel. And once I release this underlying emotion that causes me to believe I can demand something of Mary, then I'll no longer believe that I can demand it.

If I try to no longer demand anything from Mary, while at the same time I never change the emotion that I believe I should be able to, then I am still at some point in the future going to be demanding towards Mary. It doesn't matter how much I try, I'll sooner or later do something that shows my demand. So we need to have this concept whenever we discuss anything about love of self, to correct an issue we need to have the concept that to actually correct it we need to feel it rather than just think it. We need to stop thinking that we can think our way out of a situation and actually start to see that all of our thoughts come from these deeply held emotional beliefs, which while they're with us will draw us into the situation anyway. They'll even draw us into the situation through the Law of Attraction. We'll keep attracting events that we believe we've overcome, when we're doing it with our mind, and the reason why we're keeping on attracting the event is because nothing's really changed in the soul. Nothing's changed in terms of the emotions within. So it's very important to understand that. [00:13:22.13]

15. How love of self acts

So using that as a basis, what did you come up with in terms what would you do if you loved yourself? What are some of the things you would do?

Participant: I would say love of self is not catering to anyone's addictions?

Yes see I would call that love of others. What it would be if it was love of self?

15.1. Not catering to my own addictions

Participant: Not catering to my own addictions.

Yes! Very good! It's interesting, isn't it, as you can see by saying it the other way, we're really blaming others for our actions towards them. Saying it this way, we're now seeing the ownership is on me to address my own addictions. Once I release my own addictions I'm not going to be able to respond to any of yours.

Participant: You're taking personal responsibility for all of that.

Exactly! So it's very good. That's an act of love to do that, I agree. Anything else?

15.2. Desire to feel all of my own emotions

Participant: The willingness to feel the root cause of what's driving that behaviour.

Yeah, I would make it more positive than that. Let's make it the desire to feel all of my own emotions. All of them, I desire to feel all of them. [00:15:23.17]

Participant: Could we put up there the root cause because for me that's really a key thing. I had to keep going deeper. Like I can feel my frustration, that's feeling my emotion, but it's what's underneath and causing the frustration where I've actually been able to work through stuff.

But you won't get deeper unless you feel your frustration. [00:15:42.02]

Participant: That's true.

So if we're frustrated, feel your frustration. You don't have to act upon it. Feel it. When you feel your frustration you'll feel why you're frustrated. Then feel that. So everything needs to be a feeling and we can drill down into our feelings by just feeling the one above. So we don't have to be all clever about it intellectually. We just need to start with the feeling that we feel and then allow ourselves to drill into the feeling and feel the feeling properly and then we'll always get to the next feeling. [00:16:18.18]

15.3. Telling the truth to ourselves and to others about ourselves

Participant: Telling the truth about what's going on inside me.

Well there's two parts if we love ourselves. There's telling the truth to ourselves. It's very hard.

Participant: Very hard.

And to others...

Participant: ... about ourselves.

About ourselves.

Participant: That's really hard too.

Now again is the truth what we want to believe about ourselves? Or is the truth what we really feel about ourselves? Can you see the difference? It has to be based on our feelings about ourselves, not anything else. Any other ideas that you came up with? [00:17:13.20]

15.4. Suggestions from the audience about other ways to love ourselves

Participant: Trusting our intuition.

Trusting intuition? How is that a love of self?

Participant: That trusting there's feelings.

So trusting your feelings? What if your feelings are out of harmony with love? Would you still trust them? We need a tighter definition I think, that's what I'm suggesting. So, yes, we do need to come to trust our own feelings, but the problem with trusting our feelings is sometimes some of our feelings are going to be out of harmony with love. Can we really trust them? Probably not, so what do we do? How do we determine what we can trust? That's a question we need to ask ourselves. [00:17:55.09]

Participant: What's been really helpful to me is building my relationship with God because God knows the truth. And I start to feel that more accurately as I develop that relationship.

Yes, but we're focusing here on love of self rather than love of God.

Participant: Well that's the most loving thing I can do for myself is to develop that relationship I feel.

How do you develop a relationship that initially you don't even know exists?

Participant: Pray.

Well this is what I'm suggesting is that there are things that all mankind can do whether they believe in God or not, which will be a part of this and it doesn't matter whether God's involved or not. They can still become more loving of themselves. So what I would like to include in this list, is all the things about loving ourselves that don't necessarily relate to God at this point. [00:18:56.16]

Participant: Come to love my Law of Attraction?

So what's that really, when you love what your soul attracts?

Participant: Humility?

Isn't it just really loving your own soul? And what it's able to create? Everything it's able to create, not just its Law of Attraction with regard to what it creates negatively but also its Law of Attraction with what it creates positively. So you're suggesting that if I love my Law of Attraction, I'm loving myself? Is that what you're suggesting?

Participant: Yeah.

Okay. So if I love myself, I love my attractions. Now can you some flaws with this? We need to have a tighter definition because what if I attract fifty women who want to have sex with me, and I love that? (Laughter) So am I in harmony with love really?

Participant: No not loving to do that but to actually understand that I attracted it. So it was me that attracted it.

Okay. So you're not suggesting we act upon what we attract.

Participant: No, I'm suggesting that to recognise that something within me drew this toward me and I should not go, "You people did this."

But can you see if I'm a man who likes to have sex a lot with different women, then I'm going to think my Law of Attraction is pretty good when fifty women want to make love to me? This is where we need to refine the idea. So I'm not going to just love my Law of Attraction. True love of self is not just about loving your Law of Attraction because it's got to be in a right direction, doesn't it? You've got to be attracting things in the right direction, so there's got to be more involved here with this particular issue. Can you see that? Not convinced? [00:21:07.00]

Participant: No not convinced. I'm trying to understand.

Do you see where I'm coming from?

Participant: Yeah, I see the direction. Because I'm finding that I'm selective with my Law of Attraction. I don't like the bad stuff. I get upset first when bad stuff comes and so that's unloving to me to not see that it's me that created it.

I agree but the average person in the hells feels exactly the same way. They don't like what they've attracted that's negative and they love what they attract that they feel is positive. And they do attract things that they feel are positive. So for instance, if you're a man who's raped a woman on earth, you pass over in the spirit world, you often attract women who are terrified of men raping them in the spirit world. And they love that. So they love their Law of Attraction, but is it helpful for them getting out of evil? No. [00:22:02.03]

Mary: So is it really that we begin to love the truth and love the laws that bring us truth about our soul?

But again who's definition of truth? See if it's my definition of truth then that'll be very different than God's definition of the truth, and other people's definition of the truth. So there's got to be some kind of tighter definition in terms of what is loving than these things.

I agree that when you love yourself you will love what your soul attracts. I agree with that. But you won't necessarily love it in the sense of act upon it and all those kind of things. And this is where if I write down I love my Law of Attraction, everyone's going to think, "Oh well, I've attracted fifty women to make love to, so I should go and make love to fifty women. That would be great." And they would be degrading their soul in that place and then they'd say, "Yeah, but Jesus told me that I'm allowed to do that." (Laughter) We want to come up with some other closer definition. [00:23:05.03]

Participant: If you love yourself would you be open to discovery, open to explore? Would that be loving yourself by loving your life here on earth?

Could I define that as if you love yourself you love what you desire? Or you love your desires? And then I'd go down the same track that some of our desires are quite negative. And if we love them then they're going to lead us down the wrong path. That's what most of the world's probably doing at the moment; going down the wrong path with regard to many of their desires. So can you see that it's a bit hard, isn't it?

Participant: Would what you're saying be true if you said to honour and follow your loving desires?

Yeah but see again it depends on what I define as love. If I define love as having sex every day with a different woman, and then I basically am going to probably do that. And I'd think that's loving. I have actually met men in spiritual circles who only go to spiritual meetings so they can hook up with women. And they have a long stream of women as a result because there are many women who feel, "I'm meeting a spiritual man." They go along to these groups and I knew a few of them in Australia who told me that their only reason for going to these spiritual groups was so that they could hook up with the women who were there. [00:24:40.10]

Participant: I remember one time we talked about if you follow your passions and desires, even if you're not sure that they're loving, then see what happens. If it's a positive result then it's more likely to be loving and if it turns out destructive then it's obviously not. We need to investigate and explore our desires.

Well I agree with that statement and I've made it. However I would also clarify it further by saying, "Well I think something is a positive result when it's not. And sometimes I think it isn't a positive result and it is." And it's got to be real love that changes evil, not what I believe love to be. So while I agree that the way to discover your passions and desires is to follow them and see where they take you and see what corrections the universe brings to you through the Law of Attraction, I don't agree that that is necessarily truly loving yourself. What we're talking about here is if we completely loved ourselves, not if we're attempting to love ourselves, but if we really did love ourselves in all aspects, what would we be doing? [00:25:54.10]

Participant: Honouring our loving passions and desires! (Laughs)

Honouring our loving passions and desires. I agree, but who defines the "loving"? Not me. God has to define the "loving". Something external to myself has to define the loving.

15.5. Becoming sensitive to ours and others' pain

Mary: To me it's about pain. The way that God shows me that, is by me becoming sensitive to my pain.

Yes, it's very important to see this. Remember in the previous list of all the evil, most of our evil comes from the pain that's within us, or the potential of pain, or the threat of pain against us. So if I truly loved myself, what would I do with my pain? I would choose to feel all of my own pain. [00:27:03.01]

Mary: It's not just that. Also the Law of Attraction can only correct me if I'm willing to be sensitive to the pain. I might be getting an addiction met but there will be pain in my soul if I'm in addiction, won't there? So if I'm sensitive to that, then I can trust the Law of Attraction but I have to want my pain. I have to want it.

Yeah, which is a desire to feel all of your own emotions, including your pain.

Mary: Minute by minute.

Yeah. What happens when you feel your own pain? It hurts for a start, doesn't it? And then what do you find yourself doing when you feel your own pain? Do you find yourself becoming less sensitive or more sensitive?

Participant: More sensitive.

... to other people's pain?

Participant: More sensitive.

More sensitive! So if I felt my own pain of being spanked as a child by dad, and if I'm a dad and I'm spanking my child, I'd be going, "Well I think I've got to think about this a bit more," wouldn't I? If I were truly feeling my own pain, that would cause me to pause in that particular interaction. But if I'm desensitised to my own pain and I justify it to myself that my dad was just causing me that pain, then I won't be sensitive to it at all. I'll just bash away, you know, till I've got a red bottom and say, "There you deserve that." And that's my de-sensitivity to my own pain of what happened to me when I was a child, coming out with regard to the reflection of my child. [00:28:49.01]

15.6. Feeling our own pain and no longer justifying pain to ourselves or others

So can you see we need to have a desire to feel all of our own emotions including my own pain? But if I can just add to that, when I love myself when I feel my own pain I no longer justify pain. The problem that most of us have with regard to the creation of evil is that we have a tendency to justify pain because to create pain in another person we have to be justifying something. And we are justifying the creation of pain in the other person because we believe that we have pain and so they should have a similar amount of pain than what we have.

Now let's say our child was murdered, if you loved the child you would have a great deal of pain associated with that murder. Yes? Now if I feel my own pain I would never justify murdering someone else's child as a compensation for my own pain. The murderer is somebody else's child. Do you get that? They're an adult now but they're somebody else's child. I would never justify murdering the murderer so that my pain goes away. If I feel my own pain, I'd be going, "It's terrible to have your child die. Terrible. It's a terrible feeling that I had to go through to have my child die." How can I then go and create exactly that same feeling for another person if I was sensitive to the pain that was within me about that subject? By becoming more sensitive to my own pain about the particular thing that happened, I am actually helping the situation because I am now not going to take the same action to harm another person if I truly feel the pain that's within myself. [00:31:36.00]

15.7. Summary of ways to love ourselves so far

So we've talked about catering to addictions. Can I add in the addictions area, can I just add the word "demands" as well? And can I add the word "expectation" as well? Desire to feel all of my own emotions, even pain can I add to the end of that? Telling the truth to ourselves to others about ourselves; very, very important; and to others about ourselves, very important. When I feel my own pain I no longer justify pain; this is relating to the desire to feel all of my own emotions, even pain. A desire to feel my own pain will mean that I no longer justify pain at all on the planet. I won't even justify it.

So when I see a mother screaming at her children, I won't justify it. It doesn't matter why mum's screaming at her children. Yes, the child might have just wrecked the lolly aisle in the supermarket, but it's still not a justification for mum screaming at it. There has to be some other form of correction, if we call it correction that needs to be given; there needs to be some form of correction other than just yelling and screaming at the child with all this rage. What is the mum avoiding? Her own pain of embarrassment probably, by yelling and screaming at her child. Not realising that she's probably embarrassing herself even further in the moment. [00:33:16.07]

15.8. Only wanting what is loving for ourselves

Participant: I think I came up with something to answer the previous concern I had about where you said that, "Well how will we know if it's loving?" If I loved myself I would grow in my desire to know what love is.

I agree totally with that. So can I say, when I love myself I want what is only loving for myself? And we will have to at some point go on our own definition of what is loving. Because using my underlying reasoning at the beginning, I'm not involving God at this point very much, so we have to start with choosing the underlying definition. So how can we determine what is loving for myself? Because a lot of painful events can actually be loving. So how do I determine what is loving for myself?

Participant: It's hard for me to leave God out of this, because that's where I'd go! (Laughter)

15.8.1. How to determine what is loving and what is not loving

That's okay. What feedback system does God give you to demonstrate to you whether something's loving or not? There's the Law of Attraction, yes, but the Law of Attraction just brings you events. Sometimes your desires are involved in your Law of Attraction and sometimes the events are very negative but you think they're great. What else? Pain or suffering to myself or others. Now it has to be real pain or suffering, not imagined. For example I no longer am doing what mum wants and she feels terrible because of it. That's not included in this list. It has to be real pain or suffering. Somebody obviously is going through a lot of pain because of an action that I took and when I look at it honestly I can see that, "Yes, I was probably pretty unloving in taking that action." [00:35:37.20]

15.8.2. An example of having a car accident

So this will help tighten the definition of it as to how we can get the feedback happening with the Law of Attraction. So for example, you're driving down the road, you hit a patch of ice, you fly across the road and it's a single lane highway. You fly across the road, into the path of oncoming traffic head on, and you kill every person in the car but you stay alive. What do most of us call that? An accident. But if I am really sensitive to changing myself, what would I actually do? I would go, "Okay, I've caused pain or suffering to somebody else, just by being there I've caused this pain and suffering." In Australia I don't know if it's like here but just being in an accident you're 25% in the wrong. Just by being there, that's how they see it.

So we've caused pain or suffering to somebody else. It hasn't been on purpose but it obviously has a cause. We need to examine the cause. And the cause just isn't the ice on the road because the cause, if I was doing zero miles per hour with the ice on the road, nothing would have happened with the ice on the road. If I was just two seconds later crossing the ice on the road, the other car would have probably gone past me and nothing would have happened. I would have slid across the other side of the road and missed them altogether perhaps. It had to be right on that time, right on that day, right on that location. I had to make all of those choices that happened, right up to that point for that accident to occur, did I not? If I was sensitive, I'd be going, "Okay I'm causing pain or suffering to myself or another." I personally would probably feel a terrible grief of having accidentally harmed somebody else. It would be overwhelming, if you let yourself feel it. And you'd probably feel that.

But if you were truly honest with yourself you'd go, "What caused me to be in this location at that particular time on that particular date driving that particular speed with that particular car with that particular set of circumstances? There have to be some feelings inside of me that cause all of those things." And if I'm really sincere and I really love myself, and I really love the other person, I will want to discover what those feelings were; because I certainly wouldn't want to create another accident of a similar nature by not feeling those feelings. [00:38:44.01]

Now one person in Australia that I know, she's had 16 or so accidents because she does not want to feel the feeling that keeps creating the accidents. Now that's definitely not being loving to herself, is it? She keeps creating accident after accident after accident and it certainly not being loving to the people she has accidents with either by not facing the truth about it.

Mary: So it seems to me that say I'm the person in the accident, I might not be an evil person to create the accident.

I agree.

Mary: But as soon as I deny the pain of it, I refuse to feel all my feelings of it, now there's a way that I can commence evil, can't I?

Yes. The instant I go into deny the pain and suffering in myself or in another person is the instant that I start acting in a more evil manner. In other words, I'm denying pain in myself or others. Doing that automatically creates this circumstance where I'm creating feelings of anger in other people automatically. Because you imagine if you had your whole family die in a car accident, you'd want the other driver to have at least some deal of remorse about being in the wrong place at the wrong time, wouldn't you? Even if he goes around going, "Yeah, that's an accident that just happened." If he had that attitude how would you feel? You'd feel very angry probably. So you can see that oftentimes we finish up creating anger in others by detuning from the pain we've created. [00:40:37.09]

Any other ideas? How do you love yourself?

15.9. A desire to grow more loving and truthful

Participant: Maybe to desire to grow and positively change?

Yes, what have I put down here for that? Desire to grow more loving and truthful. And I put in brackets, "That's what I would view as positive change." Often I ask people what they view positive change would be and oftentimes what they view positive change would be, is not the desire to grow more loving and truthful so we need to be a bit tighter with the definition. Some people would feel that they were positively changing if they have more things or more power or something like that. [00:42:04.01]

15.10. Security in our belief systems

So if loved myself, what do I do with my belief systems? I look at them, investigate them but do I easily accept another person's belief systems? Would you just accept any belief system that come along if you loved yourself? No. You would make sure firstly that you investigated it first fully and that you could accept it and all those kind of things if you loved yourself. But if you loved yourself once you had a belief system, what would you feel about it?

Participant: Reject it?

No. That's the problem. We would feel comfort with it. We would actually be secure in our own belief systems.

Now can you see how that relates to evil? So when somebody challenges my belief systems, when somebody challenges my belief systems how would I react if I feel secure about it? I wouldn't be angry, would I? I'd go, "Okay, no worries. You want to believe that, that's fine. I'm still going to love you whether you want me to believe that or not." You'd be secure in your belief systems enough to not justify attacking the other person because they have a different belief system.

So you see a lot of times when evil actions are taken on the planet, particularly in justification of religious or political reasons, it's because each person is not very secure of their own belief system. And whenever their own system is challenged they automatically feel rage. And the reason they feel rage is because underneath that they're actually not feeling very secure about their own belief system.

15.10.1. Feeling relaxed about changing our belief systems

Now if I love myself I will have security in my own belief systems. And if I am not secure I am relaxed if I have to change my belief systems. So rather than feeling uptight and angry with everyone else who does not have the same belief system as me, I am relaxed that I might have to change my belief system at some point in the future.

And what I've said here is, "I never feel the need to force others to believe what I believe since I know that eventually either I or they will have to change their belief to become more loving." Also, "I realise that it's impossible to force a belief upon an unwilling person. Each person must exercise their own will to change their beliefs." So in all the discussions I'm giving I'm trying to remind you that you have the right to hold on to your beliefs. But you don't have the right to force them down somebody else's throat; that's an unloving action. Now many people who learn the Divine Love Path start forcing down the belief on their partners. They start trying to force the partner to have the same belief. That is an unloving action. That is actually evil according to our previous definitions. [00:45:42.20]

Of course you're not going to get a very good response. So when we're secure in our own belief systems, we feel this sense of confidence not that we have the right belief, but that we can easily change our beliefs if we're shown to be wrong at some point in the future. We don't feel any need to attack another person because of their beliefs. We don't feel the need to change them, to force them into doing something different. So loving yourself you will be secure in your own belief systems. And if you're not secure you won't feel challenged by the insecurity, you'll be relaxed about it. You'll go, "Yeah, no worries. I don't know."

Often because I say I'm Jesus, often people in the media come to me and they say, "Does that mean you know everything?" And I go, "No, I don't know everything." Now their belief is that Jesus should know everything. And I'm Okay with them having that belief; it's just not true. I'm Jesus and I know I don't know everything. So they have this belief system that they're trying to force upon me and they're really saying to me, "You are not Jesus because you don't know everything." And I go, "Whoa. That's pretty illogical. If I knew everything I'd be God and not Jesus." I wouldn't be a work in progress. Not only that, if I knew everything I'd definitely be God by that stage. I'd actually be God not just a man.

So when you're secure in your belief systems, you don't feel challenged to admit that you don't know. It's a joy to admit you don't know. Because then somebody might be able to share something with you that you might come to know after that. But if you feel challenged every time you don't know, then you're going to react quite angrily to any challenge of your belief systems. Now can you see most people on the planet don't have security in their own beliefs because you just say something to them that's different to their own beliefs and what's the first reaction? Anger!

So they're not secure in their beliefs. How many little children, like three year olds go, "Mummy, daddy, does God exist?" Amazing question, that. Most parents have no idea whether God exists. They don't have any personal proof in their own life, but they have a belief system so often what the parent will say if they're Christian is, "Of course God exists." It would be far more powerful for them to say, "I don't know. I think God exists but I'm not sure. I've never had any personal experience of God so I just hope God exists. But I still don't know whether God actually exists." Now a person who's secure in their own belief systems would say that, if that's what they felt. [00:49:12.10]

And if somebody says, if they were secure in their belief in God, they would say, "Yes I know for certain God exists," and they'd be able to explain why they know for certain God exists. But then if somebody challenges them they wouldn't get upset. So if an atheist comes along and says, "You're an idiot for thinking that God exists." "No worries. I understand why you think that way coming from the background that you do and so forth, I can see why you might feel that way too. But that's not what I believe." There would be no anger in response. There would be definitely no reason to resort to violence in response.

15.10.2. Security in our beliefs about ourselves

Now what about security in your own beliefs about yourself? Because that's also included. So if somebody comes up to you, "You're a poofter!" Is that a word here? (Laughter) A gay man in Australia is often called a "poofter" in a derogatory sense. Now I don't believe that myself. One of my best friends, the Apostle John, is a gay man, so please don't feel that I feel that way about gay men. But I'm saying if somebody came up to you as a gay man and called you a poofter, if you were secure in your own belief, you would not feel challenged by that. And if somebody called you a gay person, even when you're not a gay person, you wouldn't feel challenged by that either, because inside of yourself you know who you are. You know what your attractions are. It was quite recently that I was called a poofter, wasn't it? (Laughter) [00:51:13.15]

Participant: Did you have that shirt on? (Laughter)

Mary: There's a funny story about that because we do have a friend who is gay who's a guy who sent you an email about that shirt. He'd found a picture of two gay men wearing that same shirt! (Laughter)

There's a picture on the Internet of two gay men wearing this shirt with their arms around each other.

Mary: I can't remember when someone called you gay, babe.

In a recent email I got from a Christian lady.

Mary: Oh that's right. Yeah.

15.10.3. An example of an attacking email AJ received from a Christian lady

She was a Catholic Christian lady and she emailed me and said that I was such a stupid idiot to believe I'm Jesus and she went on for a bit. And I thought, "Yeah, it would be good to reply to this email." So what I did is I actually replied. I said, "Do you realise that you're actually in a rage with me? And you've just got so much anger coming out of you even in this email towards me." And then the next email was a heap of swear words calling me a poofter. (Laughter) So I emailed her back again, and I said, "If you didn't want to engage Jesus in a discussion then why do you email him?" (Laughter) And she said, "I didn't email you to get a response." [00:52:33.20]

So I emailed her back. (Laughter) And I said, "Well that's not very logical for a start, but secondly if you didn't email me to get a response then what was your purpose? Your only purpose could be to dump your emotions on me, and to dump your rage on me." And then I got out this Bible verse, it says, "You heard that it was said to those in ancient times, you must not murder, but whoever commits a murder will be accountable to the court of justice. However I say to you that everyone who continues wrathful with his brother will be accountable to the court of justice." That's my words in the first century where I was talking about anger and I was saying to people that God will actually account for your anger and rage. Every time you're angry and in a rage, God accounts for it. You'll have to account for it at some point in your future. Every time you're in a rage.

Now of course she wasn't too impressed with that verse, considering it came from the Bible that she's told me that I needed to read because I'm obviously not Jesus. And this is what I found in this interaction is that the majority of people are in this evil cycle before they even realise it. They're in this cycle of evil before they realise it and they don't even realise that a lot of the things they're quoting to me as evidence and proof that I cannot be who I am, the Bible itself condemns their actions in the process.

There's another verse that says, "You heard it was said you must love your neighbour and hate your enemy," I quoted this to her as well. "However I say to you continue to love your enemies and to pray for those persecuting you." So I suggested to her that rather than actually calling me a poofter with a lot of swear words associated, she'd be better off loving me and praying for me, which was what her Jesus said she should do.

All I got back was another barrage of swear words. (Laughter) So it didn't work very well unfortunately but that's the way it goes. But what I'm illustrating is if I'm secure in my own beliefs, I wouldn't be swearing back at her and saying all of these nasty things back at her. I would just be secure in the belief systems that I have. Automatically secure. I won't be attacking the person but I will be standing up for truth. Telling the truth to ourselves and also to others about ourselves. I'll stand up for what the truth is. But I won't feel like I need to attack the person or denigrate them or make them feel small or little or bad about themselves. But I will state the truth. And that's the issue there. [00:55:54.01]

16. How love of self overcomes evil

Okay. We need to go through some of this list to see what they'll do with evil, don't we? So if we did this how will it affect evil on the planet? And then I will add some more to the list.

16.1. Not catering to our own addictions, demands and expectations

So if I don't cater to my own addictions, demands and expectations, how does that actually negate evil on the planet? How does it do that?

Participant: You cannot be manipulated or controlled.

You personally then cannot be manipulated and controlled by your own addictions, yes.

Participant: You stop projecting your wounds onto other people.

Right, you stop actually implying to other people that they are bad, wrong, whatever other things because you're fully self aware about your own addictions and so forth. And you certainly don't try to wound them with your addictions. Anything else? I will say some.

16.1.1. We see our addictions and demands as unloving and unjust

I see my addictions and demands upon others as an unloving and unjust action within myself. Therefore I do not feel that others need to do anything I want or need. Others don't need to love me, look after me, make me feel good; make me feel anything at all in fact. I feel responsible for myself rather than demand that other people take responsibility for me.

Now when I do all of those things, it's impossible for me then to have my addictions affecting somebody else. In other words, I am now in a place where I'm not demanding or expecting anyone in my environment to satisfy anything within myself. They don't even have to love me. In fact I could be totally like not have a single other person who loves me on the planet and I would still be happy. Which is an interesting concept, isn't it? This is whether God's in my life or not, I have that capacity. And there are many sixth dimensional spirits who are in this place where they don't have God, but they feel completely secure inside of themselves, sometimes erroneously. [00:58:33.20]

So can you see the effect that'll have on evil? Automatically a lot of things would change, wouldn't they?

16.2. Desiring to feel all of our own emotions, even pain

Right let's look at the second one: desire to feel all of my own emotions even my own pain. How does that affect evil on the planet?

Participant: I would imagine it to be like a constant fluidity, so there's no block created. Like it just bounces like off any sort of malevolent intention in evil and would kind of just not like catch.

In terms of your own evil, do you mean?

Participant: I can only describe it as like movement; when you're always feeling it's like it's always in movement. You're always fluid and evil intentions or malevolent intentions try to cause a block and you don't allow it... I don't know how to word it the right way.

I understand what you're saying but let's be a little more specific, shall we?

Participant: I feel that evil will not be able to blackmail me then.

No one will be able to blackmail you with your own emotions?

Participant: With my emotions, yeah. With my shame or pain or my fear.

So they can't threaten you, can they? Because you're willing to feel any pain so they can't threaten you with pain. You're willing to even die, so they can't threaten you with pain in order to make you do something. [01:00:05.06]

Participant: Or shame.

Or shame. Yeah, a lot of times we'd rather die than feel shame. So that's very true.

Participant: If I'm feeling my emotions I won't be projecting them and creating more evil.

Okay, so I won't be putting them upon my environment in anyway. We'll talk a bit more about that.

Participant: Same answer - if I repress my emotions they're going to come out in some kind of a destructive manner, towards myself or my environment.

Yeah, so it could be even towards yourself.

Participant: Doesn't it also come down to being pro-active rather than reactive? So that you take a personal responsibility for everything you're feeling in that moment that no matter what's being said to you, no matter what's coming in, your response is your response. It's not being affected by anyone out here, it's only what your triggers are.

Exactly.

Participant: And that's usually past stuff that each person needs to work on.

Always. It's very rarely the thing that's happening in the moment. I agree. Any other things you can think of? The benefits of feeling everything even your own pain? How that affects evil on the planet? What I've written down is a few things.

16.2.1. We do not want others to share our pain

"I will not want others to share my pain." This is a major problem on the planet. Many of you are still wanting to share your pain with other people, that's why we talk about, "Ah, this painful thing happened. How are you going with your emotions? Oh yes, you had that happen, did you? Oh, Okay, no worries." And then it makes us feel better. We want to share our pain most of the time because we've yet to fully feel our pain. That's the reality. [01:01:44.07]

16.2.2. We do not want others to validate our pain

We don't want others to validate our pain. In other words we don't need somebody else to say, "Yeah, that was a pretty bad event," before we have a cry. We feel about the event, we have a cry. We don't need somebody else to tell us that it was bad and then we have a cry. Many people I meet have a cry when they meet me because they do need somebody else to tell them it was bad before they'll cry.

We don't have a feeling to help me with my pain. In other words, we're not projecting outwards of us, "You've got to make me feel better. You've got to make me feel happier. If you don't make me feel happier or better, now you deserve some of my rage and anger," or whatever other emotions that you want to project at them.

16.2.3. We do not have the desire to avenge our pain

I don't have the desire to avenge my pain." So if I'm in this place where I feel all of my pain I don't have the desire to avenge it all. I don't have the desire to take revenge because I'm feeling pain. I just feel my pain.

16.2.4. We do not have the desire to reduce our pain

"I don't have a desire to reduce my pain." In other words I don't even have a desire to take a headache tablet to reduce my pain. Interesting concept, is it not? I notice here in America that you have more adverts of a certain nature than what we have on our televisions. We watched a bit of telly the other night and you have a lot of adverts about medical conditions. Your adverts are very interesting - they all have big disclaimers! (Laughter) We don't have that in Australia. They don't have that because they're not afraid of the litigation. [01:03:29.24]

Participant: That was forced upon them.

Exactly! And so now they all have these disclaimers on it and when we watched those adverts, we go, "Wow this is almost an anti-ad for the ad!" It's quite amazing. And the reality is that if we truly desire to feel all of my own emotions, we will not seek temporary solutions for our pain. Now if you think about that, the majority of people on the planet in the Western society do this. So it gives you an indication of how addicted we are to not feel our pain; any physical pain in particular. But in emotional pain, what are the biggest selling drugs on the planet generally? Anti-depressants! Interesting! Aside from of course the headache tablets; I mean the ones that you have to go and get a prescription for. [01:04:25.22]

Participant: Also sleeping pills.

Also sleeping pills, which is also an interesting way of avoiding pain.

16.2.5. We do not have a desire to remove the fear of our pain

"I don't have a feeling to remove the fear of my pain." When I love myself, and I desire to feel all of my own emotions, even pain, "I don't have a feeling that someone else should remove the fear of my pain." So when I'm afraid of my own pain, I don't go to somebody else and either get them to commiserate with me about how bad this pain is, and I don't have the desire for them to remove the fear of my pain by going, "You'll be alright. Everything will be fine. It's not that bad." They're all still helping me avoiding my pain. And all of those things I've just listed are all causes of evil. [01:05:25.05]

16.2.6. How us stopping being evil overcomes others being evil

Mary: Just a question from spirits really. They've got a lot of fear, but their feelings are, "Okay all that stops me being evil." They're willing to entertain that possibility. But then they say, "What stops somebody else being evil to me? How can that help? If someone's coming to attack me, how can doing this, doing these things, stop evil around me?"

Well firstly, and this is a basic principle we all need to get and understand really deeply in our soul, the reality is that no one around me is not going to be able to be evil unless I stop being evil. So in other words, no one around me can stop being evil unless I stop being evil first. This is big responsibility that I have to take. If every single person on the planet took that responsibility and every single person in the spirit world took that responsibility, we would instantly be cured of all evil. Instantly! So we need to understand that as a basic principle first. That it's impossible for evil around me to change unless I stop being evil first. [01:06:51.12]

If I don't stop being evil first, then how can I expect my neighbour to stop being evil before me? It's not very fair, is it? To expect my neighbour to become perfect before I do is not a fair requirement upon my neighbour. To expect my partner to become loving before I do is not a loving expectation of my partner. To expect my child to demonstrate more loving development than I have is not a loving expectation of my child. We have all of these expectations. So the first thing we need to come to understand is that.

16.2.7. Fear creates physical pain

The second thing we need to come to understand is they're only saying that because they're afraid of the evil of others. When you feel the evil of others and let it pass through you, in the spirit world you automatically go to a different location where there are less evil people. On earth, when you feel the evil of others and let it pass through you without acting upon it, you automatically have a feeling of less pain when evil is perpetrated towards you because all pain is associated with the emotion of fear. This is a very basic thing we need to understand about the human body: that all pain we experience in the human body, and particularly all pain associated with suffering and long term pain in the human body, is all about our fear. Our fear creates our pain.

Now I've actually been through personal experiences in my life, both in the first century and in this life, where I was in a so much pain and agony and then all of a sudden a fear released and I was no longer in any pain but in exactly the same situation. Now many people experience this when they get injured, where they don't even feel any pain and yet they sometimes have even horrific injuries. So something changed, they no longer have a fear of the pain and that causes their injuries to be as if they're not there, even though the injury is quite present. [01:09:28.00]

Many people who are on battlefields experience this process where they accept that they're probably going to die and in that moment they automatically have less fear, or sometimes no fear. When they have no fear they also automatically don't feel the pain of their own body anymore, even though their body is obviously in pain. So this is an understanding we need to grasp is that all pain is created by fear. All pain is created by fear. Now they would like to ask you more?

Mary: No, I think it's them not wanting to experience their fear, which justifies them then maintaining the fear of evil. Saying that it can't, there's no trust.

The instant you feel your fear, you are no longer feeling pained by other people's evil either, which is very, very interesting as well. There are all these effects that it has.

Does everyone get that? Is that a bit too deep, that one? My suggestion if you don't believe me is to try some experiments. One good experiment is to get a person who's into deep tissue massage. Lay on the table, get them to just deep tissue massage your legs. Most of us will go into quite high degrees of pain with a decent deep tissue massage of our legs. The reason why is we suppress a lot of our emotion as far away from feeling it as possible, and so our legs finish up getting quite a degree of those emotions stored in them. When you get a deep tissue massage, if you allow the pain, allow yourself to allow the pain rather than try to get away from it. It's very difficult to do, and you might need multiple sessions before the experiment works.

You'll actually find, once you allow it completely emotionally, and you no longer are afraid of the pain itself, you'll find the pain will disappear. It'll just go away. It'll be like it's not there anymore. It's a very interesting spiritual change that happens in you because the belief inside of yourself just changes about pain and your ability to experience it. It can also help you then accept your emotional pain as a result. So if you want to try that experiment, you will find that you'll reach this threshold of pain that's almost totally unbearable and then once you deal with the belief about it, it'll disappear. And actually the same deep tissue massage will become pleasurable rather than painful. But the problem is most people on the planet when they get deep tissue massage, just spend most of the time screaming and don't allow that threshold to be reached. [01:12:50.20]

16.2.8. Summary of the benefits of feeling our own emotions in the eradication of evil

So desire to feel all of my own emotions, is very important. You see how important that one is for the eradication of evil? And can I just read out the thing again because I feel that many of you might not have got some of these points. "If I desire to feel all of my own emotions, I don't want others to share my pain." In other words, I can feel the pain inside of me and I don't expect Michael to attempt to feel my pain in any way. I don't want him to share in it, I don't want to bombard him with it, and I don't want to intellectually browbeat him with it. I don't want to nag him about it. I don't want to complain at him about it. It's my own pain and I own it.

Participant: Doesn't that go under the heading of love for others?

It does but it's more under love of self because the reality is when I feel all of my own emotions, including my own pain, I am actually loving myself the most. That's the time when I'm loving myself the most.

Participant: If one chooses or decides to go into fear or grief afterwards how do we know that that's love? How does that define a feeling or a tangible experience?

Every single time you choose to feel your own emotion, you are automatically not having or forcing somebody else to feel your emotion. Automatically! And that is automatically then an act of love for the other person as well, towards the other person. When I choose to feel my own pain, and I allow that pain to surface and I'll feel it, I am now incapable of harming another person with that pain. So it's automatically an act of love.

"I don't want others to share my pain, to validate my pain." Do you know what I mean by validate pain? Hypochondriacs generally do this really well. They go, "Oh, terrible pain today. Oh, it's just shocking how much pain I'm in today. It's my back hurts and my this hurts and my that hurts and..." We have some poems actually that we've read in Australia, written hundreds of years ago that talk about people like that who complain about everything all the time. And we don't want other people to do that. We don't want other people to share the pain that we have. [01:15:37.05]

"We don't want them to help me with my pain or avenge my pain." And this is something for many women, as many women want men to avenge our pain. So in other words, we can go, "I'm nice and distant from the fact that I've just harmed somebody. My man did it for me. And he's a good man if he does it for me." That's what many women believe. This has caused many wars by the way, where the women are so afraid that they send their men off to war to protect them. Historically this has been the case.

"I don't want others to reduce my pain." And that gets back to even I don't take substances to reduce my pain. I allow my pain to be felt. Now of course if you aren't dealing with your pain and if you aren't choosing to feel it, then of course if you want to, reach for a substance. You have free will. I'm not saying don't do something that you desire to do. I'm just saying that understand every single time I have the desire to remove my pain I'm not loving myself and therefore I'm potentially perpetrating things against other people because I'm not loving myself. [01:16:53.00]

"And don't remove the fear of your pain". So don't get others to remove what you're afraid of, to calm you fears. Because every time you try to calm your fears you're just suppressing them again. They come up and then you suppress them. They come up, suppress them.

Participant: AJ, it seems like when I have a pain of some kind it's calling my attention to a situation that needs to be corrected.

I agree. You're dead right. You're dead right. Every time you have a pain it's always pointing you in the direction of something to be corrected. Always!

Participant: It contradicts the Christian belief that Jesus died for me on the cross to save me from my sins.

Exactly! Jesus died to save me from my pain. Nobody can die to save you from your pain. Nobody!

Participant: Even if they were a pain in the arse. (Laughter)

And then they can die! (Laughter) And that'll save you from them! But even if you define your pain by other people, it's always due to your own pain. Always! There's always something inside of yourself. And it could be just something like you're not willing to say to the person, "Actually you're a very unloving person," or just your fear of addressing their problem can cause you pain. [01:18:42.07]

16.3. Telling the truth to ourselves and to others

How does "telling the truth to ourselves and to others about ourselves" help the world become a less evil place?

Participant: It's the crux of the whole deal, because without truth you can't love yourself. It's impossible.

I agree. But how does it work?

Participant: Because when you totally love yourself, your God self, you see your God self in everybody else. And so if I love myself, my true self, and my ongoing forever soul, then I see that in everybody else and so therefore I want the best for them also.

But how does that actually make less evil?

Participant: Evil doesn't have a chance. My belief anyway is that evil gets a toe hold every time we feel an evil emotion towards somebody else.

Every time you feel it or act upon it?

Participant: Feel it or think it because if I feel it then there's lots of those little spirits out there that are saying, "Oh goodie let's get one going here!" But if you don't feel it, "Oh that guy's so boring, he just loves everything." You see? And so we're spreading love around and if we don't have those evil feelings evil spirits just kind of die of boredom.

Well let's say someone does have the evil feeling. The evil feeling is in them, let's say. So let's say in their childhood something happened and it caused the evil feeling to enter them. What do they do with that? [01:20:21.10]

Participant: Fill it with love instead. In other words when a person goes through their life looking around, "Oh wow, that's beautiful. Oh I really love that person." And, "Oh, isn't this rug beautiful!" There isn't room for a lot of hate feelings because you fill in all that dump with love feelings and appreciation.

17. We need to feel, but not act upon, our evil emotions to release them

My philosophy is completely different. My philosophy is this. While the evil feeling resides within you, you will carry it around. And it'll be very, very difficult to deny. For the evil feeling to get out of you, it has to be felt, but not acted upon.

Participant: Oh well yeah, that's true. You acknowledge that it's there but then I would say, "Well I'd much rather feel love."

See what you're describing is what I call the natural love path; a desire to change intellectually what's really happening emotionally.

Participant: Oh no, no. Not at all.

Yes it is. (Laughter) I'm saying it is.

Participant: No because if it's real you feel it.

No but it can't be real unless you release the opposite emotion. This is what I'm saying. This is what I said right at the start.

Participant: You don't bother with it. You're too busy appreciating and feeling love for things to give it any energy. It just dies of neglect.

I can't agree with you.

Participant: I'll still love you, it's okay.

(Laughs) I feel it's one of the major problems on the planet, this belief. And the reason why it's a major problem is because most religions... [01:21:56.09]

Participant: You don't understand what I'm saying.

I am understanding completely what you're saying. The reason why it's a major problem, this belief, is because it tells you that you can intellectually change something that is still emotionally within you and I believe you cannot. [01:22:11.21]

Participant: I agree with you.

No, you don't. (Laughter) No you don't, from what you just described.

Participant: Well then, you got hung up on the words somewhere along in there.

I don't think so.

Participant: But I believe that we're still on the same track here. Maybe I didn't use the words you liked to describe it but...

See I believe that you believe I am on the same track but I feel we're on quite different tracks. [01:22:40.19]

Participant: Okay.

Can I explain?

Participant: Sure go for it.

Remember right at the start I said, "Doing it is not feeling it."

Participant: Feeling your evil emotion keeps it alive. Let it die of neglect.

No, it's not feeling it that keeps it alive. It's acting upon it that keeps it alive and not feeling its underlying cause. You see underneath every evil emotion, underneath every evil emotion is the real cause and I need to feel the real cause of every evil emotion. So for example, let's say one of my evil emotions that I have is that, "I should be able to pay you back for anything that you do to me." Let's say I feel that. That I should be able to... if you attack me, I should be able to attack you back. Let's say I believe that. Where does that evil emotion come from?

So if I have a feeling in me that I want to attack you if you attack me, then that belief has to have entered me somewhere. And it's entered me as an emotion because as soon as you attack me I attack you back. You see little children doing this. They're three years old, one child hits one of the others, and what does the other do straight away? Whacks them back. And then the other one whacks them and then the person who whacks the hardest wins. And when we grow up to be adults, what we do instead is you get out your fist and punch me, I get out a knife and stab you. You get out your machine gun and shoot at me. And I get out my bazooka and then you get out your atomic bomb. And that's how it works as adults generally. It's the same emotion, which is this belief that I can attack you if you attack me. [01:25:04.23]

Now for that to disappear I can't try to do something different. I have to actually change something in my heart that causes me to automatically do something different. So I've got to find the reason inside of me why this feeling exists. And the only way I can find that is by feeling them without actually looking at them here (AJ points to his head). Now almost every person I've met on the natural love path in the spirit world, and I've met millions of them as you can imagine, they have over and over said to me that they can try to feel something against their own feelings. And many of them reach the sixth dimension of the spirit world doing what you suggest. But they don't go any further because unless you actually feel it and release the underlying cause, you cannot actually make a real change greater than that location.

So while that location's a very pleasant location, if everyone on the earth did exactly what you said, everyone on the earth would end up in a better space, I agree with that. I can't agree that that's the best solution. The best solution is to actually release from myself all of the causes why I believe I can attack you: to do that I'm going to have to feel them. I'm going to have to feel about each one of them, to actually feel my way through them and actually feel what the underlying reason is. And it can get down to very basic things when I do that. It could get back down to the fact when I was young; every time my brother hit me my parents stepped in and didn't let me hit him back. It could be just a simple thing like that. I felt injustice at not being able to hit back. And so what I did was I decided that the true justice is to be able to hit back.

Participant: I did get extremely good at whacking back, and then I had no need to do it anymore.

Yeah but what I would suggest is when you feel the reason why you were extremely good at whacking back you would actually not do it anymore and never have the desire to do it anymore; whereas right at the moment, the emotion is still within you. And it cannot be anything other until it's emotionally released, the emotional reason for it is released.

Participant: Well maybe in dealing with it in the way that I did, which was taking up wrestling and boxing and all that sort of thing, I no longer... and I did have what you're saying because my older brother used to push me around a lot. And then after I got done dumping him on his head a few times then I didn't feel the need to do that anymore so I worked my way through it. I just didn't need it anymore.

But I'm saying the actual cause as to why you dumped your brother on this head is yet to be released: the actual emotional reason why. And that's what drew you to things like boxing and wrestling and other things like that. It's the actual emotion that drew you there. [01:28:14.14]

Participant: Well okay it drew me there but I worked through it.

What I'm suggesting is that you haven't worked through it. That's what I'm suggesting.

Participant: Yeah, yeah, you're being judgemental. (Laughter)

No, I'm actually telling you the truth. But you can feel I'm being judgemental.

Participant: That's sweet of you.

Yes.

Participant: In listening to that discussion one of the things that I investigated after connecting with your video sessions in July was the threads of error in all of the natural love paths, and one of the biggest things was the smoothing over of emotions.

Yes, it is. It is a greatly ineffective way of dealing...

Participant: And what happens is it's smoothing over those emotions. Meditation is one of the biggest ones that uses the smoothing over of emotions and the whole idea of just being love, everything's love, you're not owning the real deep emotions that began that whole string of things.

I agree.

Participant: And that is the peace that I can feel he's relating to because I can feel from you that place of that smoothing over the emotions: if I just be love. But yet you can't be true love until it's a feeling rising.

Spot on. True love has to come from the heart and the problem is, is it's coming through many unhealed emotions for many people. So while they are acting in a loving manner, the emotions coming from them aren't always loving.

17.1. The addiction of wanting to be being heard

So coming from yourself quite frequently is a very strong demand that you're heard for example. This is one of the reasons why you yell out in the middle of a group. [01:30:23.22]

Participant: No I just get excited about the subject. You bring up a lot of excitement and I go, "Oh goodie! This is really the stuff I like to get involved in."

But there's a demand that you're heard about it. There are other people that are totally excited but they don't yell out.

Participant: Oh I know I just...

So what I'm saying is there's this emotion.

Participant: I like to honestly express myself.

But I don't feel you're honestly expressing yourself, you're in an addiction to be heard. And the rest of the group feel it as an addiction. They feel it as an imposition upon them.

Participant: Okay I'll shut up.

No, no, I'm not asking you to shut up. I'm asking you to look at the imposition. I'm asking you to look at the imposition upon the rest of the group. Because when you speak up like you do automatically without there being a question asked, or you being asked, then what happens is there's an imposition on the rest of the group that they actually listen to your voice in that moment and they might not want to. And some of them, I can feel, don't want to actually. But the key is to feel the imposition. Where does the imposition come from? And this is what I'm saying is we can try to be loving but until we feel what the cause of that is, we can't be loving. It'll be an automatic action until we feel the cause and when the cause goes away we automatically are different. [01:31:55.08]

Participant: I'd like to formally apologise to you and to the rest of the group for my bubbling over too much.

I don't feel you're bubbling. I like your bubbling over. The bubbling over is not the feeling that I'm talking about. I love that; that's beautiful in you. So please don't change that. That's the enthusiasm, desire and all those things that come out. There is this other thing of needing to be heard, needing to have your opinion heard by a group of people. That's the thing I'm speaking about. And it's a different feeling that comes from you when you do that. When you're in your desire, it's a lovely feeling coming from you. It's really passionate, childlike and spontaneous feeling and it's really quite lovely. When you're in the other place it feels like an addiction, it feels like a demand being placed, and that's the one I'm speaking of. I love you. [01:32:55.13]

Participant: I'll zip it up.

So allow yourself... and this is a suggestion I have to everyone: to discover yourself through others and what they feel from you too. So what I've done a lot of my life is I've noticed other's people's response to me and I say, "Well why do you respond like that to me? What is coming out of me that causes you to react the way you do towards myself? What is it that you're feeling?" And I've discovered a lot of things about myself by doing that, by asking other people what the response is.

We were talking about telling truth to ourselves and to others about ourselves, how does that make us more loving and how does that stop evil?

18. The cause of physical pains and illnesses

Participant: I have a question to ask about something you raised before, about the pain, if it's okay to ask it now?

Yes.

Participant: About physical pain being associated with untruths or emotions that you're not feeling. I was thinking how would a person be able to... let's say someone has a fear of needles. How would they dig to find the emotion of like the root pain of that?

18.1. An example of a needle phobia

So fear of needles, let's choose that. I've had that. When I'd get an injection, I used to pass out. So let's put them all in one bracket \- fears of physical pain.

When I used to have an injection, my tummy just went into this huge sickening knot where I felt like I was almost going to vomit. And then shortly after that if I didn't allow myself to feel that feeling, I'd pass out. I'd faint. And then I'd wake up a few minutes later, usually with a bump on my head, and then obviously I'd have some additional pains as a result of that. [01:36:18.20]

But what I found was that it was very much associated with my childhood. Now when I say, "What I found was," I didn't find it by thinking about it. What I did was I allowed myself to reconnect with the feeling in my stomach that would happen every time I thought of a needle going into my arm or into my vein. I would have made a terrible junkie, because I wouldn't even be able to cope with a needle. And so what I would do is I'd just imagine myself with a needle coming into my vein and allowed myself to feel inside of myself the memories that would come up as a result of that feeling.

So there were memories that started to get triggered and I remembered when I was 12 years of age I had this huge cyst in my groin. The doctor got this needle, which looked more like a big rod with a tube in it and stuck it into it, and sucked all the stuff out while I was screaming and being held down by two people. That was one of the events that happened when I was 12. And then as I allowed myself to feel this sick feeling in my stomach, other memories started coming up right the way back to feelings about my mother; that she allowed me to have these injections, which I felt were painful, but she thought she was being loving at the time. But all I felt was pain. And I not only felt pain but I actually felt her lack of love in the process: her fear in the process. And by feeling my way through all of those things, I had a lot of grief about how mum had treated me when I was young because she was afraid; she did a whole series of things to me and my body just because of her fear. [01:37:36.13]

And once I've released all of that, I can now watch on television or in real life somebody opening somebody up and delving inside of the body and everything without keeling over. Before I couldn't even do that either. And so I found the linkage, if you like, to those particular things was through feeling the feeling first. I didn't try to go back in time, it just happened naturally as I felt each event. My mother was involved in every one of those events, taking me to a doctor, sometimes for what she viewed as a preventative thing and other times for what she viewed as a non-preventative thing.

And I've been bitten by two dogs in my life; both happened when I was under the age of seven. And so I also had tetanus injections for those as well. So there was this whole series of events, all associated with needles and my mum's fear. There was a link between my mum's fear and the event; every single time. And so once I started grieving my mum's fear and it's imposition upon me, I started realising the linkage of a lot of my responses to physical pain were to do with my mum actually making a choice to create my physical pain so that her fear would go away. And a lot of our injections and inoculations and so forth are all about that. [01:39:14.15]

And so once I released a lot of that, and I don't know if I've yet released them all because even talking about it sometimes I get a little bit of twinge still in my stomach so there's obviously some more things to do, once I released a lot of that I started having less fear of physical pain as a result. So the key is to go through the process rather than trying to skip over the process. Once you connect to the process you remember all sorts of things you just shut down before then.

18.2. Dealing with physical ailments in children

Participant: If you're the mother in that situation and your 12 year old child has this cyst that's becoming very painful and perhaps is life threatening, and they don't understand that there is something that can fix it, what is loving in that situation? What's your role in parenting?

Well firstly look at what's loving and then we'll answer what would I do. If the mother was actually loving, and the father was actually loving, they'd realise that all disease in my child has an emotional cause within me. Now if you really realise that, and you had some respect for that, you would actually have a very high diligence of releasing your own emotional injuries. And so by the time the person's 12, they would probably never get a cyst in their groin because the mother and the father had done a lot of emotional work to release their emotional injuries that would have caused such a thing.

Unfortunately with our society today we don't do that so every time we see a child who has a problem, we want to fix it with a medical solution and we don't want to address any emotion within ourselves generally. So we have to admit that as a parent. We have to go to ourselves, "Okay, the reality is I know there's an emotional cause but be blowed if I can access it or be blowed if I want to." Now if that is the case we need to understand that what we're doing is we are creating the child's pain and a person who truly loved their child would not be taking such an action. [01:41:50.20]

**Participant** : Yeah but what if the cyst has got three days before it goes toxic?

Well why did it get that bad?

**Participant** : I know that's something that you've got to ask but in the next three days, you've got to either release the emotion or they're going to be dead. What's loving in that situation?

So under those circumstances, I would definitely take some medical action. I wouldn't leave it even that long generally. I wouldn't leave it till the child's in extreme agony before I took some medical action but I would be saying to myself, "My child's in extreme pain," or, "My child's going towards pain here, and it's because of my denial of something within me." And I would definitely be doing that as a part of the process. [01:42:29.14]

**Participant** : But what if then that child is afraid of needles?

If I were the parent I would feel about how I'd forced needles upon them in the past so many times because I'm afraid. And I'd go through some repentance, and when I did that, my child will no longer be afraid of the needles anymore. So there'd be an automatic response there in the child as well. [01:43:00.06]

**Mary** : And isn't the thing that causes the most distress for our children in situations where they're unwell is the lack of love coming from the parent? So the one thing I could do is to own my fear or release my fear when I'm with my sick child so that they still feel a steady stream of love coming from me.

18.2.1. Our fear for our children's welfare makes our children feel less loved

When you become afraid for your child's welfare, your child is feeling less love from you, not more love. In fact the fear in the parent is the primary cause of the withdrawal of love from children. Every single time as a parent you go into fear, it is the primary reason why your child does not feel loved by you: every single time. And so if we understand this relationship between when I'm in fear nobody around me can feel my love. When Mary went into fear yesterday, did you feel loved by her anymore? No. You could see her fear and she was in her fear. Eventually she connected to it and went into her body with it and then you could start to feel some love again from her. But while she's acting upon her fear you can't feel it.

And it's exactly the same, and even more so, with your children. Your children are far more sensitive to your fear than you are. So every single time you go into fear, they see it as a withdrawal of love. They feel it as a withdrawal of love. So if you're sitting next to your child while he's getting the injection, your fear of the needle or your fear of his condition is having a bigger effect upon him or her than the needle; and the child associates inside of themselves the needle with the fear, which creates the feeling of sickness and all those other feelings that I mentioned earlier. [01:45:06.20]

If my mum had sat with me with no fear, and I was getting a needle injection, I would not even worry about the needle at all because I wouldn't feel the withdrawal of love. But when she's in fear, now I'm feeling the withdrawal of love associated with this event. Now there's an association between the two events. The needle itself and the withdrawal of love, which automatically creates this feeling of sickness and so forth within.

18.3. The relationship between diseases and spirit influence

Participant: I have one more question. Do you ever have a situation where the grandmother has a disease and then it skips over one generation and the grandchild gets it?

Inter-generational diseases are almost always the result of spirit overcloaking. If I can illustrate? Let's say grandma dies of cancer and she has a grown daughter who then has a child, a daughter or a son as a child. If grandma becomes earth bound and connects to that child, the child will either get leukaemia or adult cancer. [01:46:33.17]

A grandmother (left) can have a daughter (middle), pass into the spirit world due to dying of cancer, and then attach to her granddaughter (right) to create cancer in her

Participant: What I'm saying is that one of my children has ADD and my mother has ADD. I don't have ADD but some of my siblings have ADD and so I'm thinking how is that a part of my Law of Attraction? [01:46:50.21]

Can I make a strong comment about ADD? It is not a disease.

Participant: Okay.

It's all to do with spirit overcloaking.

Participant: Really?

Yeah. It's all to do with how sensitive the person is to influence from spirits. It's not actually a disease at all. Schizophrenia is not a disease either. Manic depression is not a disease. None of these things are diseases. They're all the result of spirit interaction. I can explain that perhaps in the later question when we ask some personal questions or something later. [01:47:30.18]

Participant: First of all I want to apologise for the few times I've just spoken something out.

That's okay. Whenever we have that desire to do that, a lot of times there are some hidden emotions in us. So it's good to be aware of those emotions. That's the only reason why I raised it.

18.4. Emotional causes of dental problems

Participant: About physical pain in the body, such as teeth and dental problems, now I'm assuming there are emotional reasons for that. But when it gets to the stage where there are cavities and dentist and it looks like a good idea to drill for them, I have a lot of fear of the pain of drilling.

Which is one reason why you have cavities.

Participant: Of course. But the question is it's not exactly like deep tissue massage. I mean if somebody's drilling I'm going to try not having anaesthetic...

Remember I said though the fear of the pain is often related to your childhood when your parents were afraid: the parental fear. This is the same with many of our problems that we face in our body and many of the problems we face with what we call our allergies and other types of problems. They very rarely have anything to do with our own body being at fault. Asthma, another issue. They have a lot to do with our parental fear, the fear inside of our parents associated with different events that causes an association emotionally inside of ourselves when we're very young that create a disease or a illness of some kind. So for example, teeth. How did your parents respond when you got a cavity? [01:49:33.00]

Participant: Well my father's best friend was a dentist so we went immediately to the dentist.

But how did they respond financially? And all these other ways?

Participant: The problem is he didn't have to pay for it because our dentist was the best friend. As far as I know, it was like, "You're going to go see Dr Hanson."

So what does your father feel about not having to pay for things? See if I had a best friend who was a dentist, I wouldn't go along to the dentist expecting that I don't pay him.

Participant: Right but he was my dentist's lawyer, so he did the law and my father's best friend did the dentistry. But all I can remember from my dad was he didn't want to have anaesthetic so he would tough it out and he used to tell us he wanted us to do that too.

Okay. So now we've got an association of an emotion from your father. Why did he want you to tough it out? [01:50:37.07]

Participant: I don't know... pain is good.

Interesting idea!

Participant: Stoic kind of idea.

Stoic-ness inside of him, yes. A lot of parents have this stoic-ness that causes desensitisation inside of the child. So a lot of times we feel so much grief as a child associated with an event because what's getting imposed upon us is this terrible feeling that we've got to do things exactly the way dad and mum did them, and we've got to be stoic about every feeling. We've got to not show any emotion, not show any pain. And these kinds of events are the things to look at as to what causes your teeth issues. Now Mary does have teeth issues too, by the way, but Mary has found that there are some different emotions for her associated with the teeth issues than what yours will be. The reality is that there will be different emotions for every person with teeth issues because in their childhood there will be different responses in their parents to them having a cavity. And in Mary's case... well did you want to mention what it is in your case? [01:51:48.03]

Mary: Yep. So dentists are expensive and we could never afford the dentist. And also my mum had a real thing about fluoride. And so she was almost angry with dentists because they used fluoride. It's a poison, and she's right, it is a poison. But she was very anti us going to the dentist and then when we needed to go to the dentist it was always too expensive. So money was more important than my comfort, it's a safety feeling and I feel there's also other feelings about being in the dentist's chair and being out of control of my body. So there's quite a few issues for me that all culminate in me having bad teeth.

So can you see though the association for Mary is as much about her mum in particular and her mother's emotions.

Mary: And when I feel about the issue it always brings me to mum. Like there's just this real link between mum's emotions and my feelings about my teeth.

So for every person who has teeth problems there's going to be a different set of emotions associated that create it. And once we deal with that set of emotions, our teeth have the ability to restore. And in fact what Mary's been experimenting because before our trip there was a strong feeling Mary had that she was going to have a tooth ripped out or root canal, right?

Mary: The dentist told me that. And I was in a lot of pain and it was a very pivotal decision in my life actually because to me I'm quite stoic about pain in the rest of my body but in my mouth it's a drama. And I made the decision not to honour my fear and that I was going to try and deal with the emotions. And since I've done that, 90% of the pain has actually gone from my tooth but it's not right; because also it was inconclusive on the X-ray. She said there's no cavity in my tooth, but it seemed like the nerve is dying. But it's not dead and I went, "Right, thank you, God. This is about me dealing with these emotions." But it was very hard to cancel the dentist's appointment to not get the root canal. I was terrified and so far I've accessed some of those emotions that we're talking about but I'm sure there's more.

Participant: So it's the same thing for me. My dentist said either take the tooth out or root canal.

Which side of your body is it?

Participant: Right side... dad side.

So it's about your dad.

Mary: Mine's on the left.

Participant: So I haven't thought of it in terms of doing the emotional work on it and now I will. I've been just using ayurveda, herbs and stuff. But this is very good because now I can work on that emotionally.

18.5. If we address the emotional cause we can cure the effect

Understand that when we cure the effect, when we try to deal with the effect, while we may get the release of pain, the emotion that created the pain is still within us. I feel in most cases we need to do both things. We need to nurse the effect and deal with the cause. I feel the problem with most medicine is that it nurses the effect without addressing the cause. And the problem with that is that the cause will still be present within the human body and continue to create the effects that it creates as a result. [01:55:35.12]

If we can address the underlying cause, then we are not only automatically being more loving to ourselves, which is dealing with the emotion, but we're also being automatically more loving to everyone else around us because we're not needing people to provide things to soothe the effect. And unfortunately there are huge industries at the moment created on the planet that are all about just soothing effects because we want to avoid causes.

I gave a talk recently about the Law of Cause and Effect. And there is actually a law that God's created called the Law of Cause and Effect. And the law basically states that if we do not address the cause, the effect will continue to be created and we'll have to make laws to address the effect. And in fact this is why highly evolved Western societies... we think we're highly evolved... we have millions of laws. Many of you would not know how many laws you have in America. Is that not true? And the reason why we create all these laws is because we are so intent on trying to address the effect rather than addressing the cause.

Once the Law of Love reigns supreme you'll find we won't need any other law. You won't need a law saying what speed you should drive along the highway because the Law of Love in the heart of the person will go, "Right, it's a bit dangerous today. I'm going to slow right down." Tomorrow there's no one on the road, its 5 o'clock Sunday morning, there's no-one on the road, and I don't feel like it's dangerous at all, so I can speed up. The Law of Love would automatically govern my actions without a need to be the law that addresses the effect. [01:57:24.24]

Also if you examine a lot of mankind's laws, you'll find that a lot of the laws are for specific problems or people; people that are problems. So in other words, how much of the population thieves at the moment? Do you have any idea? Is it in the 10% range?

Participant: More.

I don't know what it is now.

Participant: The ones who are caught... (Laughter)

Yeah well you know there's a bit of difference there... but let's say it's the ones that are caught. Basically all the laws about thieving are just made for those people. Because if all the other people are not thieving then there's a higher likelihood they don't have the injury that causes them to be a thief, and therefore they don't need the law. You only need the law if you actually do the thing that is negative or wrong. [01:58:21.20]

Participant: In Australia... this is the greatest gift I think that I ever got from anywhere was you guys said, "No rules, mate, just do what's right." And it is so beautiful. If everybody would live by that it would be a totally different world. I heard that so many times in Australia, I think these people must really be awesome because here in the United States, remember all those laws you were talking about, everybody's trying to figure out how to get around the laws. But if you just say, "Just do what's right," you're always going in your soul to figure out, "What's the right thing?" Because there's no rule that applies to everything at all times, but your soul always knows what's right.

Spot on. I agree, and I feel that that's the main problem is that what we're doing is we make a lot of laws to address the people who don't do what's right. And yet the majority of the population in any population who's in a peaceful condition generally wants to do what's right. And so really we're making a whole set of rules for all the people that just want to do what's wrong rather than addressing why they want to do what's wrong.

So this is part of the problem that we face. A lot of this comes from our parents and so the issue that you raised earlier about parents and the parent's emotions are very, very important because a lot of times it is the suppression of emotion in the parent that creates these relationships between fear and pain. And once a relationship within us is created between those two things, fear and pain, we then take action based upon preventing pain or preventing fear and every action we take trying to prevent pain or fear is always going to be unloving to ourselves or somebody else. That's how it generally works. [02:00:15.09]

19. Closing Words

It's probably time to have another break and this time maybe have lunch. We'll have to finish this discussion there I feel, and I'll continue it somewhere in Australia probably so you'll have to get the continuation somewhere else. Because what I'd love to be able to do after our lunch period is to address some of the personal issues and problems or different things you would like to personally raise and have a bit more of a discussion with you about those particular things if that's where you'd like to go? Is everyone okay with that? Yep? No worries, let's do that.

