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JOHN WHYTE: You're watching
"Coronavirus in Context."
I'm Dr. John Whyte, Chief
Medical Officer at WebMD.
The coronavirus epidemic
is causing a lot of uncertainty,
and uncertainty causes a lot
of stress.
And we know that stress impacts
our physical, emotional, and
mental health.
So to help us manage stress
during this epidemic,
I've asked Dr. Deepak Chopra
to join us today.
Dr. Chopra is the founder
of the Chopra Foundation,
focusing on well-being
and humanitarianism,
as well as Chopra Global, which
focuses on the intersection
of science and spirituality.
He is a clinical professor
of family medicine
and public health at UC San
Diego, and he is the author
of over 90--
90-- best-selling books,
including his most recent, Meta
Human--
Unleashing Your Infinite
Potential.
And Time Magazine has described
Dr. Chopra as one of the top 100
heroes of our century.
We're honored to have you
with us today, Dr. Chopra.
DEEPAK CHOPRA: Thank you, John.
Thank you.
Great to be with you.
JOHN WHYTE: Now, you've been
talking about that COVID-19 is
making us experience a loss.
We're losing our routines.
Some people are losing
their jobs.
Others are losing
their social connections.
And that's causing grief.
So how do we manage our grief
during this pandemic?
DEEPAK CHOPRA: So John, there
are three pandemics going on
at the moment.
The first is the COVID-19
infection, and we know what we
can do to mitigate
against the risk of infection,
and we are doing it, hopefully,
with social isolation,
physical distancing, hygiene,
washing hands.
Everybody knows now what to do,
whether they are following it
or not.
JOHN WHYTE: That's right.
That's right.
DEEPAK CHOPRA: OK, so that's
the first pandemic.
The second pandemic
is the global financial crisis
as a result of that, which
is also causing extreme degree
of suffering.
The financial, uh,
crisis is causing
biological distress because
of stress.
JOHN WHYTE: Sure.
DEEPAK CHOPRA: So that's
the third pandemic, the pandemic
of stress.
And not only chronic stress,
but now, on top of that,
acute stress.
JOHN WHYTE: Mm-hmm.
DEEPAK CHOPRA: What people
don't realize is that-- or they
do, but they're not doing too
much about it--
is that stress by itself
is compromising our capacity
to deal with the infection.
JOHN WHYTE: Sure.
DEEPAK CHOPRA: And the stress
causes the release of cortisol
and adrenaline.
JOHN WHYTE: Mm-hmm.
DEEPAK CHOPRA: Cortisol
counteracts insulin, on and on,
you can see the cascade.
JOHN WHYTE: Mm-hmm.
DEEPAK CHOPRA: But stress causes
compromisation
of the immune system, also
inflammation.
Now, one thing that
we've discovered
at our foundation through
our librarians and through
our modeling, and we've just
submitted a paper, actually,
to a peer-reviewed journal,
is that those who are getting
sick, who are getting acutely
sick--
JOHN WHYTE: Mm-hmm.
DEEPAK CHOPRA: --with morbidity
and even mortality,
they're having a much higher
incidence of what is called
a cytokine storm.
JOHN WHYTE: Hmm.
DEEPAK CHOPRA:
The cytokine storm--
cytokines, as you know,
are inflammatory--
JOHN WHYTE: Yes.
DEEPAK CHOPRA: --markers,
proteins in our body--
but a cytokine storm actually
creates havoc in the body--
JOHN WHYTE: Mm-hmm.
DEEPAK CHOPRA:
--through inflammation, cardiac
inflammation,
pulmonary inflammation, now
we're seeing even
neural inflammation.
JOHN WHYTE: Mm-hmm.
DEEPAK CHOPRA: The data suggests
that it is stress that
is causing the cytokine storms.
Now, there may be other factors,
lack of--
JOHN WHYTE: Sure.
DEEPAK CHOPRA: --sleep, lack
of exercise, movement, possibly
deep breathing--
JOHN WHYTE: Mm-hmm.
DEEPAK CHOPRA: --emotional
distress, of course--
JOHN WHYTE: Mm-hmm.
DEEPAK CHOPRA:
--fractured relationships,
financial worries.
But bottom line is, you can't
separate--
JOHN WHYTE: Right.
DEEPAK CHOPRA: --physiological
stress, biological chaos,
financial crisis, and COVID--
JOHN WHYTE: Absolutely.
DEEPAK CHOPRA: --and--
and in fact, they're all
entangled.
So what do we do?
Well--
JOHN WHYTE: I know.
I don't know.
What do we do?
DEEPAK CHOPRA: What do we do?
If we can't manage our stress,
we're going to make
irrational decisions.
JOHN WHYTE: Yeah.
DEEPAK CHOPRA: You know, it's
one thing, fear is one thing,
and we need to embrace it,
because it's a fact that this is
a very contagious infection,
spreading fast,
and in some people, devastating.
Not in all people,
but in some people, it kills,
and it is killing.
JOHN WHYTE: Mm-hmm.
DEEPAK CHOPRA: So we can't avoid
the fact that this is something
to be feared, for sure.
JOHN WHYTE: Sure.
DEEPAK CHOPRA: But we can manage
our stress.
JOHN WHYTE: OK.
DEEPAK CHOPRA: And we can do
that through many ways.
You know, right now
because people say I don't have
time to meditate,
I don't have time to think
about it--
JOHN WHYTE: [INAUDIBLE].
Mm-hmm.
DEEPAK CHOPRA: --and I'll have
to just cope.
But here's something you can do
on the run, any time.
JOHN WHYTE: OK.
DEEPAK CHOPRA: I call it
S-T-O-P--
STOP.
So as soon as you feel
biological distress-- because,
remember, there's no event
emotionally that doesn't have
a biological component.
So every time you feel stress,
there's a--
JOHN WHYTE: Mm-hmm.
DEEPAK CHOPRA: --biological
response in the form
of tightening, or sensations,
or discomfort, or whatever--
so as soon as you feel that,
as soon as you sense that, STOP.
S-T-O-P. S stands for Stop.
JOHN WHYTE: Mm-hmm.
DEEPAK CHOPRA: T stands
for Take--
take three deep breaths
and smile.
When you take a very deep
breath, it stimulates
your parasympathetic nervous
system, which counteracts
the sympathetic overdrive which
is leading to inflammation--
JOHN WHYTE: OK.
DEEPAK CHOPRA: --cortisol, et
cetera.
So take three deep breaths
and smile, because smiling
changes your biology as well.
O, Observe your breath
or any sensation, and just keep
observing it without analyzing
it.
Why?
Because distressful em--
emotions have two components.
One is the mental component.
JOHN WHYTE: Mm-hmm.
DEEPAK CHOPRA: The second
is the biological component.
You need both to experience
stress.
So when you put your attention
on your breath or to sensations
without analyzing them--
JOHN WHYTE: Mm-hmm.
DEEPAK CHOPRA: --you're actually
taking away the atten--
attention away
from the thoughts.
OK?
You're disrupting the link
between the thought
and the biological--
JOHN WHYTE: OK.
DEEPAK CHOPRA: --response
to [INAUDIBLE].
So you observe your breath
or sensations to the body
non-judgmentally--
JOHN WHYTE: All right.
That's important.
DEEPAK CHOPRA:
--for a few seconds.
JOHN WHYTE: OK.
DEEPAK CHOPRA: And then you
proceed with awareness
and compassion.
S-T-O-P.
JOHN WHYTE: T-O-P. OK.
DEEPAK CHOPRA: STOP.
Take three deep breaths, smile,
observe sensation--
JOHN WHYTE: All right.
DEEPAK CHOPRA: --proceed
with awareness.
Don't make
irrational financial decisions--
JOHN WHYTE: That's--
DEEPAK CHOPRA: --right now.
And focus on relationship right
now--
JOHN WHYTE: OK.
DEEPAK CHOPRA: --making
other people happier so you'll
feel happy.
JOHN WHYTE: All right.
DEEPAK CHOPRA: And make choices
that are determined by only four
intentions.
I start my day with four
intentions.
JOHN WHYTE: OK.
What are they?
DEEPAK CHOPRA: Joyful,
energetic body.
JOHN WHYTE: Mm-hmm.
DEEPAK CHOPRA: Loving,
compassionate heart.
JOHN WHYTE: OK.
DEEPAK CHOPRA: Reflective,
quiet, alert mind.
Not positive mind.
Positive mind can
be a turbulent mind
and cause stress if you're
forcing yourself to be positive.
JOHN WHYTE: OK.
DEEPAK CHOPRA:
So joyful, energetic body.
Reflective, alert mind.
Loving, compassionate heart.
Lightness of being.
JOHN WHYTE: All right.
DEEPAK CHOPRA: That's
the intention.
JOHN WHYTE: Good.
DEEPAK CHOPRA: Now,
during the day, because I
remember to stop, my choices are
influenced by those four
intentions.
JOHN WHYTE: All right.
I want to ask you,
because you've been writing
about the virus can give us more
meaning in our lives.
And what about the folks
who will say, Dr. Chopra,
I'm just trying to survive.
I don't have time to think
about my purpose or, you know,
come up with a new purpose.
What do you say to those folks
who really are saying, you know
what,
I just have to get
through the day?
DEEPAK CHOPRA: So it's
very important to realize
that we have a hierarchy
of needs, and survival is number
one.
JOHN WHYTE: Mm-hmm.
DEEPAK CHOPRA: OK?
Then there is ambition
and success.
And there is love and belonging.
And there's creative expression.
There's insight.
There's inspiration.
There's intuition.
And there's meaning.
So you-- you-- they're right.
Survival comes first.
And meaning is, you know,
for those who have gone
through the hierarchy of needs.
JOHN WHYTE: Sure.
DEEPAK CHOPRA: But unless you
have meaning, you won't even
make the right choices
for survival.
That's what I mean.
Right now we're going
through grief.
JOHN WHYTE: Yeah.
DEEPAK CHOPRA: Grief means
we are losing something
we took for granted--
existence.
We take existence for granted.
Why?
I don't understand.
You know?
The only time people don't take
existence for granted is when
they're facing extreme old age,
infirmity and death,
or somebody in the family
has cancer or is dying,
or they get diagnosed.
Then they question the meaning
of existence--
JOHN WHYTE: Sure.
DEEPAK CHOPRA: --and they stop
taking for granted.
I'm saying now, this pandemic
is telling us don't take
your existence for granted.
Now is the time.
You are going through grief,
which means you're going
through the stages
of grief-- victimization, anger,
frustration, resignation,
helplessness, and then
acceptance.
Acceptance gives you peace.
JOHN WHYTE: Yes.
DEEPAK CHOPRA: And then peace
allows you to figure out
the meaning.
The meaning right now is we need
to not take existence
for granted.
We need to maximize--
JOHN WHYTE: Mm-hmm.
DEEPAK CHOPRA: --our experience
of existence, which
is through our relationships
and finding meaning and purpose
on every day's basis, right?
JOHN WHYTE: Yeah.
DEEPAK CHOPRA: I mentioned
joyful, energetic body.
Loving, compassionate heart.
Reflective, alert mind.
Lightness of being.
If I practice that,
then I can address deeper
questions--
JOHN WHYTE: Mm-hmm.
DEEPAK CHOPRA: --who am I?
What do I want?
What's my purpose?
What am I grateful for?
JOHN WHYTE: OK.
DEEPAK CHOPRA: In fact, if we
just ask ourselves, what am I
grateful for, inflammation will
come down because you can't feel
hostility, anger, frustration,
anxiety, and gratitude
at the same time.
JOHN WHYTE: Now, we have
this epidemic with the virus.
I often say we have
an infodemic, that we have all
this information out there,
much of it is incorrect.
But you've been talking
about this epidemic of soul
sickness, that there is a--
you know, we have
to rehabilitate our soul.
So what-- what do you mean
by that?
DEEPAK CHOPRA: There's
a difference between data,
information, knowledge,
and wisdom.
So data is just,
you know, statistics, OK?
Information is what do we do
with those statistics.
It's the resolution
of uncertainty.
This is what we are getting.
But as you said, the information
is confusing.
JOHN WHYTE: Yes.
DEEPAK CHOPRA: One day,
get the antibodies.
Second day, antibodies may not
still say that you're--
JOHN WHYTE: Mm-hmm.
DEEPAK CHOPRA: --free
of infection.
Third day, you know, you may
have the viral load,
but you're not infectious
anymore because these are
fragments of DNA that are not
actually infectious.
On and on, right?
So the information--
JOHN WHYTE: Right.
DEEPAK CHOPRA: --is very
confusing right now.
Therefore, there's
no exact knowledge
other than the computer models
we are creating--
JOHN WHYTE: Mm-hmm.
DEEPAK CHOPRA: --which are very
good, in some ways, in that they
predict certain outcomes,
but they ignore a lot
of other stuff too, the computer
models.
So data is not enough.
Information is not enough.
Knowledge is confusing.
JOHN WHYTE: Mm-hmm.
We spoke--
DEEPAK CHOPRA: What's left
is wisdom, and wisdom--
JOHN WHYTE: That's true.
DEEPAK CHOPRA: --comes
from a deeper level of soul.
Given the confusing data
and knowledge, what's the best
precautions I can take right now
to minimize transmission?
If I have transmitted already
the disease
or have been infected,
what's the best way to minimize
the damage, reduce inflammation?
And finally, how can I find
meaning out of all of this?
JOHN WHYTE: Sure.
DEEPAK CHOPRA: All those things
are important.
JOHN WHYTE: Absolutely.
DEEPAK CHOPRA: [INAUDIBLE] means
going from do not sacrifice
wisdom for knowledge.
Do not sacrifice knowledge
for information.
And do not sacrifice information
for data, which
is meaningless by itself.
JOHN WHYTE: We spoke to Arianna
Huffington last week, who talked
a bit about spiritual awakening,
and that's what this epidemic
could be causing,
and that's what we need.
What's the role of spirituality
in our health?
DEEPAK CHOPRA: If we understand
spirituality as self-awareness,
then it's the most important
thing.
I'm not-- you know, spirituality
is not religious dogma--
JOHN WHYTE: Mm-hmm.
DEEPAK CHOPRA: --or religious
ideology.
It's just self-awareness,
awareness of the body.
Body is a modified form
of awareness, awareness
of the mind, which
is another modified form
of awareness, awareness
of our emotions,
which is another modified form
of our awareness, awareness
of our personal relationships,
social interactions,
our business deals.
That only comes
under self-awareness.
And finally, awareness
of awareness, that
is spiritual awakening,
to understand
that every experience you have
is a modified expression
of a deeper reality, which we
call the "self."
Right now, you know,
self-regulation is a big deal.
In biology, we say, you know,
feedback loops, self-referred--
JOHN WHYTE: Mm-hmm.
DEEPAK CHOPRA: --feedback loops,
endocrine feedback loops, in--
immune feedback loops,
metabolic feedback loops, body
temperature feedback loops,
sleep-wake cycles with feedback
loops, self-regulation.
JOHN WHYTE: Mm-hmm.
DEEPAK CHOPRA: But we never say,
what is the self?
OK, what is the self that
is regulating itself?
That, at a fundamental level
in the great wisdom traditions
of the world, is awareness.
And the more self-aware you are,
the better your choices
for healing are.
JOHN WHYTE: Right.
And how does that play
into the new normal?
You've written about we need
to find new ways to be
happy in this new normal.
DEEPAK CHOPRA: Well, there's
a lot of good research
now by social scientists on what
makes people happy.
In fact, they already have come
up with something called
the happiness formula.
And in one shape or another,
it's the following three things.
So happiness is number one.
JOHN WHYTE: Mm-hmm.
DEEPAK CHOPRA: Your attitude
to life, is this a crisis
or is this an opportunity?
But that's true of anything.
Any adversity offers you
those two choices.
JOHN WHYTE: OK.
DEEPAK CHOPRA: Either to panic
or to have a creative solution.
That, attitude, is 50%--
JOHN WHYTE: 50%?
DEEPAK CHOPRA:
--of our happiness experience
on a daily basis.
The second part of the happiness
formula or equation
is what we call conditions
of living.
Right now that pertains
to financial conditions,
and that is very
significant too.
10%, 15% of our happiness
comes from--
JOHN WHYTE: Mm-hmm.
DEEPAK CHOPRA:
--our financial security.
And then the last part
of the happiness formula
is what we call, um, meaning,
purpose, and our ability to make
other people happy.
So if you give other people
attention, affection,
appreciation--
JOHN WHYTE: Mm-hmm.
DEEPAK CHOPRA: --acceptance,
they get happy, and then you
feel happy.
In fact--
JOHN WHYTE: Sure.
DEEPAK CHOPRA: --that's
the fastest way to be happy.
But finding a meaning
and purpose is another way
to be happy.
JOHN WHYTE: Mm-hmm.
DEEPAK CHOPRA: But we do know
what takes-- it takes to be
happy.
Find, uh, opportunity,
number one.
Make sure you're financially
secure.
If you're not, ask for help.
There are a lot of--
JOHN WHYTE: Mm-hmm.
DEEPAK CHOPRA: --people,
by the way, who are offering
help right now
and asking for help.
There are a lot of food bank,
so many things we--
I'm involved in find--
in the foundation with--
JOHN WHYTE: Right.
DEEPAK CHOPRA: --where people
are exchanging resources--
JOHN WHYTE: Right.
DEEPAK CHOPRA: --with
financial--
JOHN WHYTE: And no need to feel
embarrassed for asking.
DEEPAK CHOPRA: You don't need
to feel embarrassed.
JOHN WHYTE: Mm-hmm.
DEEPAK CHOPRA: And then
the third part is make
other people happy
and find some meaning
and purpose every day,
and you're increasing
your quotient of happiness,
which ultimately translates
into dopamine, oxytocin,
opiates, serotonin, which,
by the way,
modulates the immune system.
JOHN WHYTE: Yeah.
All those good hormones.
DEEPAK CHOPRA:
Direct connections-- happiness
and immune regulation as well.
JOHN WHYTE: Well, Dr. Chopra,
I want to thank you for all
those good tips.
DEEPAK CHOPRA: Thank you, John.
Thank you for having me.
JOHN WHYTE: And I want to thank
you for watching "Coronavirus
in Context."
I'm Dr. John Whyte.
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