>> Hill: IN 1968, AMERICA WAS
EMBROILED IN PROTESTS OVER CIVIL
RIGHTS AND THE VIETNAM WAR.
IN THAT TUMULTUOUS TIME,
"TONIGHT SHOW" HOST JOHNNY
CARSON TURNED OVER HIS HOSTING
DUTIES FOR AN ENTIRE WEEK TO
ACTOR AND ACTIVIST HARRY
BELAFONTE.
BELAFONTE'S GUESTS, MOSTLY
AFRICAN AMERICAN, INCLUDED
MARTIN LUTHER KING JR., LENA
HORN, AND BOBBY KENNEDY.
IT WAS A WEEK, THOUGH, ALMOST
LOST IN HISTORY, BUT NOW
REVISITED IN A DOCUMENTARY
CALLED "THE SIT-IN," AIRING
THURSDAY ON NBC'S STREAMING
PLATFORM, PEACOCK.
I RECENTLY SPOKE WITH "THE
SIT-IN'S" DIRECTOR, YORUBA
RICHEN, AND PRODUCER JOAN WALSH.
THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR TALKING TO
US ABOUT THIS DOCUMENTARY.
I'M JUST CURIOUS, HOW DID THIS
ALL COME TO PASS IN 1968, WITH
HARRY BELAFONTE ACTUALLY SITTING
IN FOR JOHNNY CARSON?
AND WE'RE TALKING ABOUT DURING A
PERIOD OF GREAT CIVIL UNREST,
THERE WERE ANTI-WAR
DEMONSTRATIONS.
HOW WAS IT THAT HARRY BELAFONTE
GOT TO DO THIS FOR A WHOLE WEEK
ON THE, JOHNNY CARSON'S "TONIGHT
SHOW?"
>> WELL, FROM WHAT WE KNOW,
MICHAEL, HE-- JOHNNY CARSON
REALLY CARED ABOUT THESE ISSUES.
WE DON'T THINK OF HIM AS A
POLITICAL PERSON.
BUT HE HAD A LOT OF CONCERN
ABOUT RACE RELATIONS.
HE WAS A LITTLE BIT AHEAD OF HIS
TIME, PARTLY BECAUSE HE WAS IN
THE ENTERTAINMENT BUSINESS.
YOU KNOW, HE WAS CLOSE TO HARRY.
AND HE WANTED TO TURN THE SHOW
OVER SO THAT HARRY COULD
SHOWCASE HIS VIEW OF THE WORLD
FOR A FULL WEEK.
AND HE GOT BACKUP FROM-- FROM
NBC EXECUTIVES ALSO, WHICH WAS
PRETTY AMAZING, AS YOU SAID,
GIVEN THE TIME.
>> I ALSO THINK, HARRY WAS SUCH
A HUGE STAR AT THAT TIME, AND
IT'S-- WE SOMETIMES DON'T
REMEMBER.
YOU KNOW, HE WAS MULTI-PLATFORM:
TV, FILM, MOVIES.
AND I THINK THAT JOHNNY THOUGHT
HE WAS THE GUY-- LITERALLY--
HE WAS THE GUY WHO COULD DO IT,
WHO COULD SPEAK TO A NATIONAL
AUDIENCE ABOUT THESE ISSUES, AND
BE ENTERTAINING.
>> Hill: BECAUSE OF WHAT HARRY
WAS ALREADY DOING-- I MEAN,
SOME OF THE FILM GOES INTO WHAT
HARRY WAS DOING IN THE 1950s
AND ONSTAGE WITH A DIVERSE CAST
MEMBERS AND SO FORTH.
SO I GUESS, TO A CERTAIN EXTENT,
THAT MADE IT "MORE ACCEPTABLE"
TO AMERICA'S AUDIENCE?
>> YEAH, I MEAN, I THINK HARRY
WAS A HUGE SUPER-- A SUPERSTAR
FOR EVERYONE, BLACK, WHITE.
YOU KNOW, WE SAY IN THE FILM,
IT'S PRETTY AMAZING FOR HIM TO
BE APPEALING TO WHITE AUDIENCES
DURING THESE TIMES OF
SEGREGATION.
THERE ARE ONLY A FEW, VERY FEW
WHO DID THAT.
I THINK OF SAMMY DAVIS, JR.
AND HARRY.
>> Hill: I WOULD IMAGINE THAT
THE NETWORK EXECUTIVES STILL,
THOUGH, WERE NERVOUS ABOUT THE
CONTENT OF WHAT HE WAS GOING TO
TALK ABOUT?
BECAUSE, AFTER ALL, BELAFONTE
WAS NOT A COMEDIAN.
>> PART OF HIS NEGOTIATION, HE
WAS VERY, VERY-- HE WAS VERY
HUMBLE.
IN OUR DOCUMENTARY AS WELL, HE
SAYS, "I DIDN'T THINK I WAS
READY TO TAKE JOHNNY CARSON'S
CHAIR, AND I DON'T TELL JOKES,
AND, YOU KNOW, I'M JUST NOT THAT
GUY."
SO HE ALSO NEGOTIATED THAT HE
WOULD SING A SONG EACH NIGHT
INSTEAD OF DOING A STANDUP KIND
OF MONOLOGUE.
AND THAT WAS THE ACCOMMODATION
THEY MADE WITH HIS TYPE OF
STARDOM.
>> Hill: IT WAS ASTOUNDING TO
SEE THE CALIBER OF PEOPLE WHO
WERE ON THE SHOW.
JUST THE TWO THAT WERE RECORDED,
AS FAR AS WE CAN TELL.
AND IT WAS ASTOUNDING.
YOU HAD DR. KING SITTING NEXT TO
PAUL NEWMAN, SITTING NEXT TO
LEON BIBB, SITTING NEXT TO
NIPSEY RUSSELL.
I MEAN, THAT'S JUST-- IT'S
AMAZING.
>> YOU'D NEVER SEE IT ANYWHERE
ELSE.
>> I THINK IT SHOWS HIS REACH,
RIGHT?
HIS REACH INTO THE POLITICAL
WORLD AND INTO THE ENTERTAINMENT
WORLD.
YOU KNOW, IT'S ONE OF THOSE
PEOPLE.
IT'S LIKE, YOU KNOW, THE ONE FOR
THE AGES, WHERE PEOPLE ARE--
WANT TO BE AROUND HIM.
PEOPLE-- HIS INTELLIGENCE, HIS
TALENT, HIS COMMITMENT, HIS--
HIS LOYALTY, IS, I THINK IS WHAT
GOT ALL THOSE PEOPLE TOGETHER TO
HAVE THAT KIND OF LINEUP THAT
WEEK.
>> Hill: WHEN YOU STARTED ON
THIS-- ON THIS JOURNEY, WITH
THIS DOCUMENTARY, I'M JUST
CURIOUS, FOR BOTH OF YOU, WHAT
ASTOUNDED YOU ABOUT-- ABOUT THIS
WEEK OF HOSTING THE "JOHNNY
CARSON TONIGHT SHOW" FOR HARRY
BELAFONTE?
WHAT ASTOUNDED YOU?
>> THE DIVERSITY OF HIS GUESTS,
THE QUALITY OF HIS GUESTS, THE
WAY THAT HE-- THE WAY THAT HE
HANDLED HIMSELF AS AN
INTERVIEWER, WHICH, AS YOU KNOW,
IT'S NOT THAT EASY.
YOU KNOW, IF IT LOOKS EASY,
YOU'RE DOING A GOOD JOB, BECAUSE
IT'S REALLY NOT EASY.
AND SO HE STEPPED INTO THAT ROLE
SO SEAMLESSLY AND ALSO BROUGHT
BOTH HUMOR AND COMMITMENT.
SO THOSE WERE SOME OF THE MAIN
THINGS.
>> YEAH, I MEAN, THE FACT THAT I
DIDN'T KNOW ABOUT IT, I MEAN,
WHEN JOAN AND THE PRODUCERS
APPROACHED ME ABOUT DIRECTING
THE FILM, I WAS IMMEDIATELY
INTERESTED BECAUSE I DIDN'T KNOW
ABOUT IT.
BUT ALSO, THE FACT THAT IT
WASN'T UNTIL MANY YEARS LATER,
'TIL ARSENIO HALL, THAT WE HAVE
NOT HAD ANOTHER HOST.
I MEAN, HARRY WAS HOST FOR JUST
THAT WEEK.
HE WAS THE FIRST AFRICAN
AMERICAN HOST OF THAT WEEK.
AND THEN, YOU KNOW, A LONG, DRY
PERIOD, UNTIL WE HAD ANOTHER
AFRICAN AMERICAN HOST OF
LATE NIGHT, AND WE STILL HAVE A
PROBLEM THERE AROUND DIVERSITY
IN LATE NIGHT.
SO THAT'S ALSO ASTOUNDING.
>> Hill: RIGHT.
I WANTED TO PLAY A CLIP, AND THE
CLIP HAS TO DO WITH HARRY
BELAFONTE GOING BACK TO THE
"TONIGHT SHOW" WITHIN A MONTH OR
SO OF HIM HOSTING THE SHOW.
>> DID YOU HAVE A BALL WITH IT?
I CAUGHT YOU A COUPLE OF NIGHTS,
IT LOOKED LIKE YOU WERE HAVING A
GREAT TIME.
>> I HAD A MARVELOUS TIME,
THE GROOVIEST TIME IN THE WORLD,
EVEN, THE WEEK THAT I SPENT
HERE.
WE ENDED WITH RATINGS THAT WERE
LARGER THAN THE ONES WE OPENED
WITH, AND WE OPENED WITH THE
LARGEST NUMBERS IN THE HISTORY
OF THE SHOW.
>> Hill: AND HE ALSO TALKS
ABOUT, I THINK THE DOCUMENTARY
SHOWS, THE LIST OF GUESTS THAT
HE HAD ON.
IT'S PHENOMENAL.
AND THEN HE TALKS ABOUT, "THANK
YOU FOR THE SIT-IN," WHICH IS
JUST, I MEAN-- UNLESS YOU KNOW
HISTORY, THERE'S SO MANY PEOPLE
WHO MAY NOT CATCH THAT.
I MEAN, THIS WAS HARRY
BELAFONTE, THEN, NOW, WHENEVER,
AWFULLY CLEVER ENTERTAINMENT.
>> VERY CLEVER.
I MEAN, WE FOUND OUT ABOUT
THAT HE CALLED IT "THE SIT-IN"
SEMI-LATE IN THE PROCESS.
SOMEONE REACHED OUT TO ME WHO
HAPPENED TO BE JOHNNY CARSON'S
SECRETARY IN THAT TIME PERIOD,
AND SHE WAS SO EXCITED THAT, YOU
KNOW, THAT THE WEEK WAS BEING
WRITTEN ABOUT.
AND SHE SENT ME A COPY.
HE TOOK OUT A FULL-PAGE AD IN
"VARIETY" THANKING NOT ONLY ALL
OF HIS GUESTS, BUT ALSO THE
STAFFERS ON THE "TONIGHT SHOW"
WHO HELPED.
BUT AT THE TOP, HE SAYS, YOU
KNOW, "THANKS TO ALL OF YOU WHO
JOINED ME AT THIS SIT-IN."
YOU KNOW, AND "SIT-IN" IS NOT A
NEUTRAL TERM AT THAT POINT.
YOU KNOW, THE CIVIL RIGHTS
MOVEMENT, THE MODERN CIVIL
RIGHTS MOVEMENT, IN SOME WAYS,
IT STARTED WITH, WELL, ROSA
PARKS SITTING IN, BUT ALSO THE
STUDENTS SITTING IN AT LUNCH
COUNTERS, YOU KNOW, COLLEGE
STUDENTS SITTING IN AROUND THE
VIETNAM WAR.
SO IT WASN'T JUST, YOU KNOW,
LIKE A FUNNY THROW-OFF LINE.
IT JUST SHOWED-- IT SHOWED THAT
HE SAW WHAT HE DID, IN A
FRIENDLY WAY, AS A POLITICAL
ACT, NOT JUST A, YOU KNOW,
"WELL, WE HAD A GREAT WEEK AND
WE GOT GREAT RATINGS."
>> YEAH, IT'S A BRILLIANT MOVE
TO CALL IT A "SIT-IN."
WHICH, OF COURSE, IS OUR TITLE
OF OUR FILM.
AND-- NOT THAT WE WERE THE
BRILLIANT ONES, HARRY WAS THE
BRILLIANT ONE TO DO IT.
AND TO BRING THAT KIND OF
POLITICS AGAIN TO MAIN STREET,
IN "VARIETY," IN-- ON THE
"TONIGHT SHOW."
YOU KNOW, THAT'S SORT OF THE
HISTORY, YOU KNOW, SO MUCH OF
HIS WORK THAT HE WAS DOING,
BRINGING THOSE POLITICS-- FOR
SOME, RADICAL-- INTO THE
MAINSTREAM.
>> Hill: IT'S A TERRIFIC FILM.
I HOPE A LOT OF PEOPLE GET A
CHANCE TO SEE IT.
IT'S CALLED "THE SIT-IN," JUST
AS HARRY BELAFONTE PENNED IT WAY
BACK IN 1968.
AND WE'RE TALKING TO THE
DIRECTOR, YORUBA RICHEN, AND
WE'RE TALKING TO PRODUCER, OF
COURSE, JOAN WALSH.
THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR JOINING
US.
>> THANK YOU.
>> THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR HAVING
US.
