to order
we welcome you all here this evening the
media is supposed to be is gonna proceed
through a presentation but first of all
we're gonna do approval of the minutes
of the September 30th 2019 meeting I'm
assuming you all had a motion passes
since we're all here and we have at
least one new member
we're gonna go around the table and
introduce ourselves so that the members
of the public and people who usually
don't come to these meetings know who we
are
Melanie helps our city clerk does it but
at the end of the table taking minutes
and then we will start with so I'm Jason
Krieger and I'm representing the DDA I'm
Frank Arvin I'm representing the City
Commission Chawan Douglas City
Commission Sarah can injure parks rack
senior services Advisory Board and Tim
saharsky also from The Perks rec and
Stan advisory board and I'm Jennifer
streamer debuffed was not able to join
us this evening mr. Douglas - Amy
comments
totally stoked to hear this plan that's
all okay I'm excited as well excited
about what we seen so far the next item
on the agenda is the presentation
I am KSK Downtown Development people
they have taken their public comments I
assume as well as other input our
comments are my last meeting and kind of
synthesized them and just some
preliminary design ideas and we're
excited to see them good evening
everybody good to be here again thank
you for clearly here start the
presentation okay well thanks for
getting me on the agenda prior to the
holidays we've got a lot of really great
things to share with you I know that
there's been a sneak peek as well so
good that you've got a chance to take a
look at it so you're not seeing it for
the first time but we've got some really
great momentum starting with kickoff for
the project food truck rally workshops
that we've had and we've shared a lot of
that information with you but we wanted
to keep things moving so today is an
opportunity to check in we're getting
close to our 30% kind of mark which is
roughly schematic design depending on
you know if you're coming from an
engineering background or master plan
design background and wanted to share a
couple of of different concepts that we
have started to come to with with with
all the different feedback that we've
gotten in the work over the last several
weeks so we want to talk about what
we've heard we want to talk about the
preferred concept out of rooms terraces
and in programming activation we've got
some opinion of probable costs I've got
an update to that in the and which I'll
share a little bit later but I know that
we sent something to you earlier and
that was some was in progress so I
wanted to update that as well and then
talk about next steps
so one what we've heard sorry it says a
little lag there we go so we've got the
Commons room and terrace and you came
and presented those options to you guys
those were basically a derivative of the
look and feel report that was done prior
to us getting involved based on Beacon
Park based on Miller Park in Chattanooga
promenade Park and Toledo there were
some elements of each of those that made
them somewhat different from each other
and we wanted to take those elements and
prepare three different diagrams based
upon the way that those were composed
and we developed the Commons rooms and
terrace that we began to one share with
you all
we shared with the public at the food
truck rally we had over a hundred people
come and ask questions give us their
feedback we've got some really great
comments some things that we hadn't
quite thought of yet or hadn't quite
refined that we're able to get some
really good feedback a lot of good
comments in terms of family oriented
spaces so I think that was a very good
success for us it helped us - sorry
there's a lag on that one and I'm
watching I'm just going to watch this
one you can see here in the bottom left
a few of the different ideas we had
post-it notes and so I saw several of
you there where people could just write
down things as well we had kind of the
you know the exercise to put a sticker
on your favorite but also to contribute
your own ideas we had over a hundred of
those and these are some of the ideas
there we sort of highlighted the major
elements but those are all things that
we worked really hard on weeding into
the - the preferred concept as we began
to evolve that so out of that the just
the raw data the metrics and the people
that would talk to and some of the
feedback that we've gotten from the
force and the DDA was rooms was the
preferred concept so that was a
opportunity for us to kind of take that
in springboard further with the feedback
that we've heard today so at that point
everything beyond that is new to you
guys and we wanted to share you with you
the updates of where we are now now
we've got two concepts because there are
two elements that we still have some
discussion on as a larger group one is
the typography the other is the
placement of the memorial so we've got
two ideas that that accommodate both of
those that explore both of those we've
got renderings to share how those look
in different configurations so let's
just jump right into it oh there's the I
didn't say play video so just backing
out as we were beginning to kind of
brand the space as well kind of at a
broader perspective this notion that we
kind of touched on in the interview but
when we looked at the aerial you see the
the dense vegetation of the trees of the
neighborhood but you get into the urban
space it really you know even from the
Google Earth view it's a lot of gray
which you know it's it's an urban area
parking streets buildings we get it this
is an opportunity a Glade is an opening
in a woodland where Sun punches through
and it's kind of a unique magical moment
within a woodland area this is somewhere
the inverse of that it's this kind of
magical moment within the urban area
where you know people walk through the
urban jungle and then they find this
this green opening this is what a glade
looks like in a natural setting but what
we're kind of creating is an inverse so
this notion of this Glade is something
layered on top of some of the other
things that we've been talking about as
far as the oak tree as well there are
some still threads of that that are we
through this this project as well but
starting to brand things like the lawn
area as the glade started to resonate
with our team and we're starting to pick
up on the branding identity part as well
so as we begin to move further into the
project we'll have a lot more expression
on that so Glade a and Glade B Glade a
shows and these two things that I'm
going to address are interchangeable but
Glade a shows a elevation it's in the
range of eight to nine feet back in the
in the back area I think in the rooms
concept previously that elevation was
closer to the statue what we did was
basically flip that and we don't have a
vertical wall now we have a gentle slope
that that helps transcend to that upper
area on the backside and of course it
creates that sort of natural
amphitheater and then also the way we
grade this can also be a sledding hill
too in the wintertime so there's there's
a lot of opportunities with the great
change plus it creates and we talked
about this in the DDA meeting earlier it
creates a sense of drama within the
space as well not just from the
three-dimensional quality of it but also
the way it reveals spaces as you walk
through the park so we thought that was
something that was a really interesting
contribution to the park you'll start to
see that in some of the views the glade
be here's a few of the programmed areas
kind of highlighted and assuming you
guys got a quick sneak peek and a chance
to review some of those I'm happy to go
over some of them will jump into each of
the spaces later on so maybe we'll just
keep keep rolling through this the glade
be the lawn area in the middle is now a
level space obviously there's going to
be a little bit of great change but it's
basically in perceivable and and just
four scales sake the the the Glade area
with the hill is about
17,000 square feet Beacon Park that
artificial turf area is 16,000 square
feet so give you an idea of the scale
that space this right here with no Hill
flat lawn its 27,000 square feet so it's
almost it's a little shy of double of
what you see at beacon park so it's
generous for football games that kind of
things I think there's pros and cons to
either option the one thing with this
one though is it kind of limits that
drama you can enter the park and see
across the entire thing and get it all
in one view again the program pieces
labels mean what is the distance say
from the Stardream to the corner there
gosh off the top of my head I'm not sure
yet it's a generous sized space I mean
it's it's a scale that we didn't think
that we needed to measure it and
memorize it right now we do have the
surveys of the space we have the
dimensions everything modeled is based
upon the survey information that we've
received today so everything's to a
scale so I'll I'll keep forging ahead
here here's another view of the glade a
just wanted to point out in this concept
you can see in the foreground here we're
within the existing easement where the
memorial has been identified to to exist
this is smooth to the east to move out
of the way of the doors that come in
immediately out of the the library
that's going to be an area where there's
going to be a lot of energy and a lot of
buzz and we thought this is an
opportunity to keep that serene quality
and move the memorial out of the way so
it it has its room in its space to
continue to have that serene quality but
also be sized so that they could have
festivals or not festivals but memorials
and ceremonies there and you see also in
this one there is a walkway that cuts
through and we talked about this earlier
that if we don't do a walkway through
there the fear is that there's going to
be a cowpath that's going to cut through
that lawn anyway so this is an
opportunity to create that cut through
and then you can have kiosks on either
side of that too so it's a great
opportunity to you know have a festival
in the glade while you keep the Memorial
Plaza open as well and probably have
something else going on in that area so
that's that can't really point to it but
it is so I'll just rest this on here and
right there is that where it is now or
did you move it no the next slide is
where it is now and we've got a design
that keeps it in its current location
but it's still configured the same it's
just moved slightly south it's slid to
the east out to the east
so this that's where is now this one
okay cool thanks that's where it
currently exists and so what we were
proposing in this concept that this is
the direction that is preferred we would
keep it on the plinth we would just
redesign the edges of the plant so that
geometrically it it fits in with the
overall design of the park plus it keeps
it in its same position and then of
course we
a few scenarios within our within our
presentation here that shows how you
could set up for a ceremony for that but
this keeps it in its current
configuration be its where it is today
be is where it is today
what we did was we took it sits on a
plinth right now yeah we just kind of
reconfigured the edges of the plant
there's that also a little lawn area and
these monitors are very small so it's
kind of difficult to see but next to it
there's a small lawn area so you could
set up chairs there you could set chairs
in the Memorial Plaza around that lawn
area is where we were planing there's
plaques there's rocks and stones with
you know memorial plaques and things in
them those would all be accommodated in
that in that same area you know our
intent is not to diminish it and shrink
it but to make it a space so if I could
just add something really quick part of
where I think this came from was the DDA
reviewed this plan a little several
weeks ago months ago whatever it was and
one of the thoughts that came out of
that was to look at an option where the
War Memorial stayed where it was and
because you know we want to make sure
that it stayed in the serene spot once
we we just got out of our review of this
a little bit of go--just time and in
reviewing this we thought that the
leaving it where it is after you start
to see how the parks reconfigured it's
not serene anymore it's in the middle of
an active space so one I have some
points that over the course of time I'll
share that the DDA like says I'm here to
represent the DDA but and I media DDA
really liked the idea of it moving and I
know that it's it's a tricky thing to
say to move it but we feel it's the best
thing long-term overall for the War
Memorial and the space that it creates
and also that walkway that cuts or uh
that goes through the site that does not
create a cowpath as Andy said you know I
actually created I think it helps to
channel InFocus
pedestrians where you want them it
terminates right on the entrance of the
library which is really nice so what
you're doing is you're focusing this
activity where you want it to be and
where you want things to be quiet and
serene
have that off to the side so that was
part of the discussion I want to update
you guys what the DDI was talking about
earlier tonight how why does that pass
like it looks like you took the same
general concept and just put a pass
through the middle I mean I'm sure
there's some other things that happen
but yeah that's the pinch point it is
about 15 feet in width okay so it's
generous you can get a vehicle down
through there if you need to like a food
truck to set off to the side and we've
talked about what's heavy-duty versus
what's light duty this would be an area
where we would want heavy duty concrete
to be there or whatever pavement that we
end up designing so but it does fan out
in both directions so that pitch point
there's is it as a minimum 15 feet but
right where the memorial is that's 3035
feet right there behind it if you're
looking at the I'm not sure what you
guys give us see my screen or that
screen do we see what's up there okay
now yeah I just like to see whatever I'm
flipping on so have a TD we're not
moving the water thing all right no
that's gonna stay yeah and we think it
works well the way that the parks
starting to lay out now you can start to
see in a few views this is the corner of
Troy and third we're calling this the
confluence Plaza it's kind of this
gateway into the park we've got some
lights in here as well that can kind of
create this sort of beacon as you
approach from these two streets
gathering space underneath we also are
changing the pavement texture underneath
Neath this you know we talked about the
the DNA sequence the gene coding of the
English oak which is the Royal Oak here
we actually reached out to a professor
at MSU Michigan State I don't know if
that's the right one say cool green they
gave us the the letter code which we
then assigned to the different paper
colors so you know we can express not
everybody's going to get that when they
come to the site but at least we're
starting to inform
the decisions for a patterning that
we're doing so we've got that we've also
over proposing movable furniture in this
area similar to like a Bryant Park we've
got some we worked in a lot of urban
areas where we've discovered that there
are some very good quality but
inexpensive furnishings that we could we
could use here chairs that can fold up
and a lot of the clients that we work
with they just put in their budget they
may have to replace one or two or maybe
eight a year you know some of these
chairs that we're showing these little
Bryant Park examples $99 they're not
that much so will they be a lot to me
but in terms of the operation of a of an
entire park so that's the the gateway
there we're also showing that without
the mounds so you can begin to see sort
of the drama here
the mounds back here creates a backdrop
and sense of wonderment that might be
behind it so the mound the high point of
the mound is on the southeast corner yes
yes so you're looking at a diagonal
right at the at the apex or the height
of the mound the pinnacle and then this
view shows it with the mound gone so
you're basically looking straight across
the field the glade just another view
underneath that confluence plaza showing
what it could possibly look like you can
light that hill and have some drama to
it we actually put a few little blue
LEDs that could be in this Hill as well
kind of shining up on some birch trees
and we've got some evergreens in there
too just to create that sort of dramatic
backdrop to that space as you're
approaching and then here it is without
the mound still a good park obviously
just a little less drama but you get the
opportunity now to look across the space
you can see the c2 star gazer
star drink you can gaze at the star
dream the mountain has the opportunity
to create a little bit of playfulness to
it as well with the typography we can
introduce an opportunity that we may not
be able to do with just you know flat
ground so what we're proposing here is
to use some boulders not necessarily
steps but a bolder scape that will allow
you know kids to maybe climb up or you
can just sit on this edge of the
boulders you know check your phone and
read a book or something but as you
approach the top of it now this Glade
reveals itself and you've got a star
dream in the background kind of the
focal point of that of that view and all
the activity in the front plus this
begins to reveal the space that you know
now you're at the top of the
amphitheater that if there were a
performance down at the low end on the
stage you know you've got a great
vantage point down and you're not
looking at the back of a lot of people's
heads and then this is what it would
look like without the hill you know a
great open lawn space plenty of room to
play football throw for his Beast that
kind of thing so it's certainly still
usable across the street from City Hall
one of the things we tried to do with
this design is to have it be very
permeable from all the edges so that
there are some more celebrated
thresholds but there are also many
points that we're welcoming to allow
people to come in this is one right
across the street from the new city hall
it's under construction right now
you know greeted with some trees and
some seating this will probably have
some gateway signage something as well
that will kind of denote we're coming
into maybe some learning moments also
we're that's in development that will
begin to share later but I wanted them
to share this view and this is what this
area would look like with with lawn and
as opposed to the hill so you can start
to see how that law and begins to kind
of create there this funnel view into it
and allows that experience of kind of
coming through that threshold to sort of
open up like a Glade
and then this one is also a threshold
designated by pavement on the ground but
less less dramatic kind of marching
north up at the street we've got an area
another entrance into the gardens
there's a path that weaves through we've
kind of shown this sort of perimeter
path that had this kind of resemblance
of a when you slice a tree the rings
around a tree that still exists in the
plan we've taken a few artistic
liberties and the shaping of some of it
but it's the adventure path that we're
talking about and we were having some
discussions with with with the workshop
with for the for the design of the
project this notion of being able to
take kids out from the library to take
him on a path to see wildlife or to see
flowers to string different times of the
year we thought it'd be interesting to
take him through a smaller path and not
on a big path like the plaza path that a
lot of other folks will be walking on
but it's an opportunity to break away
from that maybe we have little spaces in
there where we have some boulders where
you can sit and read a story so you know
there's intimate moments as well as as
kind of the grander scale within the
glade this one doesn't ain't change too
dramatically because it is more of a
contained space with the greenery but
just wanted to show you can see there in
the background the water feature kind of
off to the left behind the girl on the
blue shirt with her arms crossed
so now we're looking at a view obviously
you can see the Stardream down there at
the end
we got the farmers market behind us this
is the Memorial Plaza this is a view
showing the relocated memorial it's
there to the left so it has a position
that's backed away from the main walkway
it's got its own designated space for
people to congregate around but also we
got a nice width of pavement there in
case we wanted to put some pop-up tents
or something for an expansion of the
farmers market just a slight adjustment
with the memorial in its current
location here it's kind of moved a
little bit out of the view it's there's
people in the way they're being very
rude right now but but it's back there
it's not quite um it's close to the to
the street this is looking up at the
library Terrace now the way we've broken
out the estimate right now while we
still think the library Terrace has a
lot of potential and we would still
recommend for it
it's one of those future phases future
funding opportunities so we've drawn a
line along the north side of that
memorial plaza where that would remain
as future days everything below it would
be in park improvements within the base
base project we do have and we'll get
into some of the the budget numbers
later on we do have a pretty healthy
contingency right now built in so we're
thinking that nature play area which is
extremely important the butterfly garden
that their improvements done to that
that may fit within that contingency or
it may do an add alternate for that to
try to get that into the into the
basement bit of the project these are
just views looking down at the park the
stage area here you to the right you can
see a small platform the idea here is
that when it wasn't being used as a
stage it didn't look like an unused
stage this has the ability to have
outlets and plugs and power whatever
power we want we
included a lot of that in the budget but
plug and play here for concert events
also can just be a stage for regular
park activities as well and we look and
didn't intentionally raise it up too
high because we wanted to have it
accessible so we want to have a you know
not a ramp but a sloped walkway to get
up to the to the surface for performance
that would face out towards the glade to
perform now that's kind of a designated
stage that we've labeled there are also
other opportunities built in for
performance within the park at different
scales so you know a lot of this is
imagination but we'll want to work with
you guys to find out what those
scenarios might be so we can plan for
where power access may be this is that
same view one you can see with the
Memorial relocated they're not relocated
this is the memorial in its current
location the previous one moves it and
allows us to put a bench there and then
this has that the no hill on it so we're
starting to work our way around the face
of the new city center building right
across the street this is you can see
the star dream there so this is kind of
at the northern end of that building the
stage there just to your right this line
because the existing oak is here that we
want to keep and salvage and design
around we're calling this area the Oak
Grove so it would have a collection
obviously English oak will be one but
we'd have a collection of Oaks in here
eventually tall canopies kind of very
stately placed with paving and
furnishings and things underneath to
congregate we imagine there may be
people waiting to go into the city
center or coming out of the city center
that could utilize this space also it's
at the periphery much like the way
Beacon Park works where there's a lot of
seating around the edges
these would be another this would be
another opportunity to sit at the edge
and watch the activity within the park
so that was kind of this was flipping
back and forth between Hill and no Hill
so from this vantage point it's it's
kind of removed from the hill so it's
not as it's not as dramatic a change
also adjacent to that we've got another
area this is where we've got a farm
table that's there but it's I think
somebody mentioned on Facebook that
there's an opportunity to bring crafts
out and use this whole table to you know
engage kids and have crafts time a lot
of things have lunch with your coworkers
that might be at the city centre from
wherever I wanted to create those
opportunities not that it's just
benches and you know these moveable
furnishings but we also have these kind
of places that could be named let's meet
the farm table you know at noon and this
this was a really bright day here but
this has the the no Hill so within this
walkway that the adventure path that
kind of goes throughout the perimeter of
the park not necessarily just around the
lawn but kind of weaves through these
other spaces we've got a couple of pull
off areas to these going a little you
know nooks if you will and so this is
kind of showing what one of those may
look like that existing oak tree is just
there to the right so you know you would
be underneath the canopy of that really
embracing that as a as an element and
then kind of sitting within that space
looking back we're trying to introduce a
few fun things as well we've got you
know one ping-pong table in here now
there could be more I think thinking
about the operations of that is
something we want to work with you guys
on you know is that you go rent the
paddles from the library you know with
your library card
or how that operates but you know
checker tables and chess tables and
things like that it's kind of nice to
have a few those or urban games within
the space
also so it exists in this area guess
it's in the southwest corner of the park
the water feature I think the last time
we talked that the intent of this is to
be a series of jets that pop up out of
the the ground through these nozzles
that are embedded in the paving still
the same idea we've got a collection of
those here and when they're turned off
they are non existent and you can put
furnishings and things on top of them
when it's when you turn the water off in
the wintertime and you don't want to
have water feature on also there's the
ability to light those we can put a
little LED light in the base so that the
drama of the water jumping up and down
is also illuminated with lights that
could also change to different colors
depending on the season or event this is
what that would look like with without
the hill next to it still be fun to play
in couple of renderings showing how set
up for the memorials in their different
locations one in its existing location
and the one moved slightly to the east
this is the eastern location tucking it
into a very similar situation to what it
is today just gets it away from the
busyness of the space and gives it its
its own room within the park also
creating the the canopy that is very
similar to what's in its current
configuration today with the honey
locust size for you know a group of you
name it from 20 people to 150 people or
more you've got the entire plaza back
here that you can utilize now and you're
not setting people up if it happens to
rain you're not setting people and
chairs up and you know wet grass as well
so you've got a dry space to do that if
the desire is to keep it in its current
location and again the memorials are not
dependent upon hill or no Hill these are
kind of two different decisions I just
the way I modeled it here so
we could have the memorial its current
location the way it's shown today but we
could also still have the hill the
conflict maybe with that path that comes
through that aligns with the front door
of the library that may not be something
we want to come right by the memorial
it's it's very busy that in conjunction
with the Memorial Plaza it basically
creates a crossroads of of traffic and
then to that we would have to move that
walkway off the side of the main
entrance for the library so then it's
kind of just off it's so here we're not
showing that connection to the main door
of the library we're kind of removing
that conflict with the memorial but you
can see how we kept that plinth and how
it can be integrated into the space you
can also see in the foreground the
little lawn area so there is also an
opportunity if you wanted to set chairs
up in the lawn you can do that off to
the to that side so programming and
activation this is this diagram is
showing a scenario where the memorial
may be attended and that may be the
event of the moment in this in this
diagram the second diagram would be the
extension of the farmers market or this
could be an independent thing it doesn't
necessarily have to be associated with
the farmers market this could also in
the scheme with the walkway that cuts
through the middle you could also
imagine that being programmed and
populate it too so you kind of have this
sort of tea arrangement right there and
then with the stage we could all
obviously put a structure temporary on
top of that that would platform and that
is you know we're thinking that that's
where the view of the activity is the
performance is backing up a step did
would you could you we should build some
sort of electrical resources in around
the memorial as well as the stage
absolutely yeah I think that's one of
the when we start to pin down the the
shape and the structure of the framework
of the park
then we're going to start to identify
what we've we've kind of got an idea a
good idea where those might be but we'll
want to work with you guys with you know
the DDA the whole team to figure out
okay in any given scenario where might
you need to plug in
yeah for sure is there any like
reservation and yeah how we got the
memorial like is there any history like
is there any way reason that we wouldn't
want to move it I just kind of think out
loud here it's definitely within a
dedicated space no and the space extends
if I'm correct all the way to Troy but
it's it's it's not so ideally because
that's the dedicated space and I think
that's the thinking of everyone so far
as you know pick it up and located the
other end of this park area basically
it's in its dedicated space now so I
think the two alternatives are either
keep that where it is or move it as in
this one proposal just slightly east
you know maybe 30 feet east so it would
be in a warm secluded yeah like where
it's potentially moving I just didn't
know if the the reason that we had it or
the event I don't know with the
memorials for so I guess they they were
before they were moved here they were at
the other end of the parking lot that
used to be there and we're second comes
into the parking lot over there for a
while
which is a really awkward location so
they were moved here so it's a more
defined refined location okay but
there's a but the space that was
dedicated for the memorials is actually
much larger than the granite components
themselves it's essentially all that
grassy area
got it thank you sorry I just make sure
all the feedback that we've received is
that the memorials an integral piece and
it's you know it's beloved and so we
agreed from day one that we think that
it needs to continue to exist here it
plays a very strong role and there's a
lot of emotional and and you know
personal attachment to it so our
approach to this is how can we create a
better space for it you know as soon as
these buildings are demolished and the
parking lot is scooped up and taken away
those trees that line behind it all this
is going to have a you know a detriment
effect to the space and so I think what
we're trying to do is let's let's help
salvage that and put it in a very
important prominent position within the
park so that that's been our attitude
with it and we you know we're working
collaboratively with all all people
right now to come to the you know the
best best location for it all so holiday
events we've sized this in the model
right now it's like an 80 by 40 ice ring
now these can come in any kind of sizes
that you want if you do a third party
they just come in build it for you and
set it up for the three or four months
the one at Campus Martius is I think a
hundred by sixty so that's that's a
fairly large one and this you know this
could actually be larger - we just
wanted to show an example of how we've
built the space to accommodate ice rinks
within it as well
in terms of that being a program element
so just in reviewing these we got the
glade a with the hill got the glade B
with the no Hill so as we're kind of
going through this the talking points
are you know starting to come up and
these are things that is it as
my team will be good and maybe once a li
need answers tonight but maybe there's
just a little bit of conversation about
you know how can we begin to get to a
point where we have decisions to move
forward so I've got updates to this and
you know probable cost initially there's
there's been discussion about the
restroom facility since we kind of
started exploring the project we think
it's still a component that will be we
very convenient so you have for the park
we placed it over by the meet back up so
right here there's a little spot where
our plan is now to have the utilities
kind of stubbed up to that point we've
backed that out of the estimate for at
this point so that there could be a
future restroom that's there we were
also doubling that as mechanical space
for the any you know water feature
structure stuff but that can also be
underground adjacent to the water
feature so that's not a hundred percent
necessary but anyway
so these this simplifies that budget
page so you can clearly see what base
project future phase so the budget for
the project is at three million dollars
right now we still have a lot of things
that can slide back and forth so we feel
really confident we still have three
hundred and fifty thousand dollars three
hundred and sorry forty thousand dollars
left in contingency so we're we're
feeling really confident that what is
shown on the drawings here
is within budget right now this is not
clear the restroom this does not include
the restroom we back that that piece out
was it included in the one that we have
in the that was almost four million yes
the the three differences the restroom
piece got back down we were showing more
granite as a percentage of the pavement
and those we were kind of cranking up
just to kind of test to see where we
were budget wise I think we probably had
too much of that material in the park
and then the other one was contingency
we just dialed that back a little bit I
think we were carrying a little too much
initially can you tell us a little bit
about your the methodology for
determining the cost sure yeah we do
area takeoffs for everything we've got
this in a CAD program so we can get
exact measurements of exactly what we
have I have a Excel spreadsheet that we
basically just itemized everything and
in some of these we got placeholders you
know we usually start on a more
expensive end just to kind of see where
we're gonna land and then we go through
a process of well that doesn't
necessarily need to be granted it could
be brick pavers or concrete pavers and
that that that's kind of our process
right now so we're we're kind of
midstream at the moment we're thirty
percent
these are the first numbers
hot-off-the-press and they'll just get
more refined as we move further into the
project
the demolition part of this contract or
is that a separate contract but it's not
part of about $7,000 allocated for the
demolition of the work in what budget
well it's in the town it's in the park
budget it's in the park but it's not
part of the budget that he's been given
ketchup yeah it's not part of his
operation it's not part of the budget
that 8m KSK is designing - it's being
done by another contractor but it's
coming out of when they allocated funds
for the four parts of the Civic Center
project the demolition cost was included
in the park part part of the bond
alright yeah that's correct
got it thanks
five million dollars
so three million dollars two and a half
plus five hundred thousand for FF&E is
for the park so that other 200 thousand
dollars is going to demolition the
design fees some other professional fees
okay thank you so questions discussion
you know for us
he'll know he'll only be more discussion
about some of these items but those are
some things as a design team we're ready
to and so we can move towards sixty
percent our design development okay um
general comments first of all I just
want to let the public know tonight too
that there will be no voting tonight
we're not gonna say this is the design
this is what we are picking this is an
opportunity to see where the designers
are in their concepts just to get a
general idea just that we have some
things to consider yes or no we would
like to have this moved we would like
this kept the way it is so this is
nothing's gonna be decided tonight this
is all part of a long process nobody's
gonna be doing putting a shovel in the
ground next summer it's gonna take some
time so we have some time to kind of
work through all of these things so the
opportunity tonight is for us to give
feedback but also to hear from the
public and we will keep hearing from the
public as this goes forward so that's
kind of where we are tonight no voting
tonight so any other comments from the
members of the task force excuse me play
video
thank you
now that was with the War Memorial move
slightly to the okay just slightly to
the east okay correct dedicated area
just scooch it over a little bit
scooch dollar that's my mother speaking
there way to compliment you Gaza at the
corner of Troy third I'm getting vertigo
focus at one point now we're working our
way around the hill towards the water
feature water jets it dies in the area
where the restroom could few go in the
future right there but you can put
furnishings there these is the this is
the adventure path that's Henry Ford to
the left right now yes looking back at
the glade there stage I'll slow it down
next time she's not going very fair
treadmills all over the place
and I did see a comment about we had a
we do have a person with a bike in here
but we you know I guess that'll be
something we'll have to work with you
guys that you know whether this is a
yeah and the dog probably should be on a
leash just a rendering this is the
second one this is worthy this is what
the miles day where they are right
that's in the exact location same
elevation of off the ground so basically
we're just building our touching there
because it's expensive to move the
memorial so it's something that we
definitely want to consider
programmatically the all the spaces are
the same but I think here just pay
attention that you know the the openness
now that there's not a hill again we
we've all been to parks where there's a
grand open space in the middle
you know we designed parks like this as
well so not necessarily to say here
one's better than the other I put them
on the spot in the DBA meeting and I
said which one do you like
he's very political wouldn't give me the
strength but I could sense which one
handi likes we tried to have a mixture
of plant material is there well there as
well I mean these are plants that we
have available in the computer program
but in terms of deciduous versus
evergreens plants that are gonna have
one fall color versus a spring color so
that there's this sort of for season
appeal to it okay now we've seen the
video as to that the the
three-dimensional is helpful just to get
a concept of the whole thing
okay now comments there was something
about a hammock area on the plan
well we a lot of kids these days have
these sort of pop-up hammocks that they
can use I'm drawing a blank on what they
call them right now but the spacing of
some of the trees for example in that
confluence Plaza some of them are close
enough that you can actually just place
it between the two the two trees we've
got a lot of trees around the perimeter
for pop-up hammock spaces permanent
hammocks we could do something like that
but that wasn't one of the initial kind
of
programmatic areas trend I didn't know
about so yeah I live right around the
corner from Grant Park right every live
Frank
I see hammocks all the time in the
summertime and they've heard yeah in
Grant Park hmm I'll have to look for
next summer but they take them with them
when they're gone yeah sleeping yeah huh
and they're portable they fold up and I
guess no but they pack up into a little
bag that's like that big made out of a
nylon material yeah okay cool thanks I
do have a comment I think it's brilliant
I think choice a is the one I would go
for I think moving the the War Memorial
to the east really makes it a wonderful
place that's intimate and quiet for
contemplation I think the path through
the middle is something very important
the hill creates a great amphitheater I
think it's a brilliant plan I really do
I think it's fabulous
yeah I uh echo those sentiments I really
prefer plan a I just feel like it adds
something that I don't see in all the
other parks that we have we have a lot
of parks and a lot of flat parks maybe
not Normandy I guess nobody's getting a
sledding hill but it's still flat yeah I
just feel like it really adds a lot more
focus and like focal points and things
to look at it just seems a little bit
more interesting than the average Park
it feels like something people would
more of a destination point to me before
I stop saying anything I was asked by
somebody to make sure that any existing
trees if at all possible should want for
me yeah I think that I I agree I mean
that the hill adds great texture and
moving the memorial east if for no other
reason to create that path across it
because as somebody said it there will
be a path there even if we don't pave
one so we might as well make it make it
that easy for people I love all of the
loose seating I mean I'm ravine reminded
of Herald Square Park in New York where
it's just such an organic
you know to be able to sit down and drag
an extra chair over to your table it's
just very human friendly and oh so
question is this turf or a real or
artificial turf artificial turfs going
to be about 3 to maybe 4 times more
expensive so that becomes sort of the
budget question what we have designed in
here though is a at least a 12 inch it
might be 18 inch layer of sand soil mix
which helps with drainage in the soil
and we've got good drainage in this area
anyway but that's what we typically do
with lawn areas and a lot of our urban
parks is it's the you know the important
piece is what's underneath that grass
we've also got irrigation designed into
the budget too so not that we have to
have that on all the time because we
want to be mindful of water usage within
the park but I think that is important
during events where you may have a lot
of people trampling on it or when
there's you know some drought going on
you know for a week or two where it
might be you know struggling a little
bit and what about storm water do you
need detention retention here yes so our
goal on this project is to not have one
drop leave this this Park and so once we
get the framework composed you saw a lot
of planting areas kind of around the
perimeter a few of those are gonna we're
gonna kind of pull down in the middle to
create a little bit of storage space we
don't want to quite call them rain
gardens just yet they're more like maybe
bio retention basins or something like
that they're they're you know they're
part of the infrastructure of the park
and less of just a demonstration garden
I think we're past that
at this point so we're trying to weave
that into it as well and you know with
the soil or the the sand that's down
below the park that you know is great
for drainage with in Royal Oak there's
the potential and we've got to start
running numbers at some point here but
the potential that maybe take some
Street off the street drainage into this
as well we
also entertained the notion of having
some rock chambers or something
underneath the the site that could also
store water too but more to come on that
and I'll be interested to see as we go
forward the access points I mean are you
givin you no that's not I don't know it
is you know where pedestrians enter how
we make sure they cross street safely I
don't know if that's your assignment or
if that falls on the the city but that's
going to be an issue as well just to
make sure that it's inviting and
accessible and safe
absolutely so where we have created
entrances are one that responding to the
bump outs that are designed into the
street so what we're showing here is the
I guess that the bid has already been
awarded right for that streetscape an
activity way yeah so we're responding to
that design and that entrance in City
Hall matches that bump out that's there
and you know the farmers markets kind of
easy we that that connection there's a
bump out there as well the corner I
think that there's some bump outs at the
corner as well so we're trying to
encourage people to enter the park with
they're crossing the street at those
points where that span between the curbs
is the most minimal got it very good
thank you here are the comments other
big budgetary differences between the
plantain and Plan B the cost difference
between a and B other big differences
there or well there's there's a couple
the means I would ever like one moving
moving the memorial as a cost you know
it's a six-digit cost and then there's
the earthwork with with the hill aside
from that those are the only two major
differences is this planning that what
you guys have is the plan a which is the
more expensive one okay I just wanted to
show that to you guys
so so be just to catch up with you guys
kind of get a sense of where we're
discussing earlier at the DBA meeting
but plan a was definitely the preferred
version for same comments that
everybody's already shared so I'll need
to regurgitate it so what is the overall
budget five million five million
altogether was allocated for it and that
Clint's the seven hundred thousand we
need for the demolition demolition
that's what enters how it's gonna
explain it again sorry Todd I'm it's
three million dollars for what we're
looking at right now so it it breaks
down as we've had it as two and a half
million for your base construction and
then five hundred thousand dollars for
elements how we work with the three
million dollars but that's what it is
the other two million dollars is going
to remediation some connectivity
professional fees demolition so we've
always talked about a five million
dollar Park budget but the actual for
what you're getting we're at three
million dollars so the 1 million for the
library is that would be as you classify
it a phase 2 add-on
trying to make sure I understand okay
thank you
um questionnaire debuck because he can't
be here this evening emailed a couple of
us some comments and some of them we've
already covered so let me just make sure
that they're entered into the record
first of all he likes the water feature
and he wonders if it would be possible
to put the spouts in the formation of
the royal oak logo he's just throwing
that out there he has mixed feelings
about the concrete path cutting through
the glade it seems like a lot of
concrete but on the other hand he
understands that you need a path he
likes the boulder climb maximize water
absorption we've talked about that you
know you're you are gonna be doing the
stormwater retention on state he's open
to a new memorial placement if it
maximizes functionality and it remains
in a prominent place of honor in other
words he doesn't want to diminish the
importance of that Monument the way or
it is now
storm water absorption elements in the
design we've talked about that and
incorporating renewable energy to power
lighting I think that's something a
little bit further down the road in
terms of how we do deal with electrical
where it's placed how much we need
whether or not we can use renewable
energy he did not pick between a and B
but overall thought it was a well done
plan both of them so those are his
comments I I tend to agree that I like a
better than B although I don't have
strong feelings one way or the other I
think a is that is the better preferable
design but I think both of these are
extraordinary and I think no matter
which one we pick and how we define the
elements within it it's gonna be a real
extraordinary park one thing we should
probably ask is we are not taking any
votes tonight we're still processing
this do we know what the next step is
where do we go from here is it or do we
mul this and then come back a month from
now and then actually make a decision
well from the design team you know we're
ready to jump into starting to fine-tune
some details but I think from us if we
could have a couple decisions on some of
these these those those two major
components basically the hill and then
what would what do we do with the
memorial we can move forward on a lot of
the other stuff because a lot of there's
there's a lot of similarities between
the two so we're gonna be working
towards 60% design we're also going to
be working towards the signage and
wayfinding and identity components
starting to fill in some of the gaps so
that's that's our next step so you know
F if there's no decision tonight what it
sounds like there's you know maybe some
conversation to be had if we could get
something you know at middle to the end
of January that would help us stay on
track I mean we've got stuff to continue
moving on so it's not like we'll be on
hold
all right thanks mr. wrassle you were
gonna make a suggestion well as I
learned tonight there's really three
groups that need to be on the same sheet
of music before we go to or Monday night
this order this task force
DDA needs to weigh in on a
recommendation since we're out of the
upkeep and financial programming the
future will probably be dependent on
them and then obviously the Commission
on Monday night gets the final vote on
which concept we're going so I guess we
need a recommendation at some point on
some of those decisions or do you feel
comfortable do you want to go forward
with the 60% solution and take the two
options to the City Commission after we
meet again and vote on which one we
prefer new options to say Commission or
do you feel fine with them going forward
with a recommendation after one more
meeting of this commission over this
this book body and making a
recommendation to the Commission of this
is what we've chosen like it or don't
like it and just refine the one option
okay so that's that's kind of the
framework of where we are and where we
should be going right right because at
some point in time we need a
recommendation from this board to take
to the City Commission right so it seems
like with your ability to go forward
with the other 60% of the design
elements in this the two key decisions
that we need to make number one between
a and B and if the essential differences
between a and B is the elevation and
also the location of the War Memorial am
I getting that correct in the path we've
we've agreed that the restroom will be
plumbed but be a Phase two item right as
the the cost associated with putting a
restroom in the park yes
okay is everyone comfortable with that
timetable with that premark okay it
keeps the design portion moving forward
but it still gives us some time to work
out those those key elements there and
if we focus just on those key elements
we should be able to handle that and I
would anticipate that we would schedule
another meeting in January and see if we
can't come to some consensus on that by
that point so yes City Commission meets
on the 13th so the question would be
would we meet on the sixth for example
like right after the holiday which would
give it time to put onto the City
Commission agenda if not we wouldn't be
able to consider it until January 27th
Andy what does that do to you
the end of January is okay I'm like we
were just talking we've got plenty of
other stuff to work on now at some point
well because grading and utilities and
things the that's the hill for example
is a big chunk of space so at some point
we'll need to get some answers on on
that so if it has to push back to then I
think we're will be will be okay okay
yeah I would think later on it I think
moving forward in for the six of the 13
bits that's too ambitious a schedule
yeah I don't think that's that would be
workable
does there need to be a formal
recommendation from the DDA to this body
I think there needs to be a formal
recommendation to the City Commission
from the city commission from the DDA
yeah this task force would make a
recommendation to the City Commission as
well okay and we don't need your an
independent body and need to go directly
to the City Commission with your
recommendation we would need to schedule
at around the next DD meeting or to get
a vote I would think so and what is that
I'm enjoying January 15 I'm sorry Kerry
15th so that would we could make that
work you want to do another doubleheader
on the January 15th correct do the DDA
well sounds like we need a sounds I
couldn't need to have a vote at the DBA
or have a formal you know exactly what
we want to vote on okay so we would do
that I'm just trying to take advantage
of everyone's time so we did it like we
did tonight through the DBA at 4:00 do
this this buddy
immediately after mmm I think that would
work
I'm here for two meetings so are you so
welcoming nation based on refining the
presentation you made the night before
that I think we elevations in and then
we just need to decide on moving the
warmer world correct that seems to be
the decision and we haven't gotten to
public comment yet so I like to hear
that first excuse me I'd like to public
comment
okay any other discussion here any other
comments okay then we are going to move
on to the next item on the agenda which
is public comment I know there's a
number of people here who have come to
talk about this I'm gonna forewarn you
all that I had eye surgery a couple
weeks ago and I can't see you all on the
back of room very well you're all kind
of a blur so I'm not gonna be able to
see hands you're gonna have to stand up
so I apologize for that I'm healing but
there you go the first person standing
it come right to the podium we need your
name and address
my name is Roger Coddington @co d di ng
t om Rogers rodg er I'm the junior past
worthy president and paternal Order of
Eagles at 401 East 4th Street we've been
in the city of Royal Oaks since 1926 and
at our meeting we had discussed and
we're also part of the memorial Society
as well years ago when that was moved
from the previous position to where it
is now there was some damage done to
some of the granite that's there one of
the big slabs and one of the concerns we
have is what's going to happen if that
breaks you know another thing is some of
these names on those on the memorials
are people who have not returned they
their bodies were never returned here so
in some cases that was one of the
reasons why we wanted it moved from
where it was before to where it is now
it was a very disrespectful place where
it was we had to listen when we did the
services for Veterans Day Memorial Day
we had to listen to garbage trucks
dumping and all that stuff and that's
why we worked to get it moved and there
was a large expense in that getting it
moved as I say some of these people's
whose names are on there never returned
so in some ways that's that's hallowed
ground for their family that's the one
place where they can go to kind of
remember in
it's sort of you might say is a grave
for their you know their loved ones and
we at the Royal Oak Fraternal Order of
Eagles is sharply opposed to having it
moved anywhere else
30 feet one way or the other I don't see
is gonna make that big of a difference
when you take into the account of what
it stands for the fact that it's it's
sort of a memorial for some people who
never returned another thing coming out
of the library back of the library I've
seen many times where families have come
out of there and they had their children
with them and their children and say
what's that
well now mom and dad takes them over
there and explains to them what what
that Memorial is about as a veteran
myself it touched me deeply and I think
it's a since the library is quote a
learning place what better place to
leave that than where it is now when
they come out they're learning more so
I've got it my times just bought up
anyway I appreciate you allowing me to
speak I hope you take this into
consideration thank you very much and I
salute my flight Thank You mr.
Cottington yes sir mr. wetland I can
recognize you just two things that my
bringing up tonight people started
talking about the War Memorial
edie gentleman behind me was saying
about the landscaping of the new park I
wanna make two recommendations about
trees don't make the same mistake that
we did before playing maple trees and
oak trees and the reason why we don't
want to plant and especially if you're
gonna plant flowers and plants and stuff
like donate the tree the maple tree is
one of the worst trees to to plan as you
know we had maple trees here word the
one was now within less than ten years
it killed just about all the plant
material
underneath them including the up
avoiders what's the reason why the main
proteins were taking it down the methane
by the maple tree hazard whirlybirds
that drew all the birds and then what
system above maple tree and that's all
the maple trees that I know of and I
know my cheese have got up to the
surface and it took set all the moisture
all the on the plants underneath them
one thing about all then you can go and
near the maple tree is grown cover now
the oak trees they got just the object
there were too deep but they got those
acorns and not only that that that means
a billow 3:53 doing it some time so I
don't care what kind of my okay maybe
maybe and maybe an English oak my god
but other than that keep that in mind
don't make that same mistake now get
into the War Memorial and you know back
in 2006 we moved the war know what is
now and the reason why we move that over
there is I tried to percent the other
problem we have of the noise of the
garbage trucks in Mandela's also just
respectable place to begin one section
we have now I didn't think we someone
just leave later there's it's just is a
nice peaceful area and I don't see why
we should spend all kinds of money our
taxpayers money to move it maybe 30 or
40 feet I think that's that's just me a
plane a waste of money and the v-league
world is and and what I see what they
sold it looks pretty good though I like
a little more green space in the front
of the bottom are wood that's here there
I've been over my years of being in
service and I haven't gotten to awful
lot of olive oil over here the molar
island and aim even injure minee I've
seen a lot of war more than the key
thing of a war memorial it's different
from doing a memorial it needs to be any
a
respect peaceful situation and
surroundings and that's one we might
keep that and Miss Lili where there's no
it's a good place bets palette and hope
that you guys come up with the right
answer
that I have hoped about me when I had
agree what before I leave I'm I wish
everybody a Merry Christmas and ain't a
Jewish people a happy Chanukah thank you
to you too thank you who's next
yes ma'am hi my name is Emily Dumas I'm
the director at the library um there's
two things I wanted to talk about first
of all I wanted to make the case to make
a restroom in the park a priority um I
love the idea of the water feature but
one thought I had is that you're gonna
have a lot of kids getting wet and
trying to use a library restroom and if
you've seen our restrooms they're very
small we just don't really have an
adequate restroom to support a lot of
people needing to use it and also I
imagine people would be tracking in
water into the library the other thing
and I've talked to Andy about this and I
know it's outside of the scope of his
work but I noticed on the renderings
that there was cutouts for parking on
the street I would like to ask you to
keep that on your radar I think that
having on street parking is going to be
very important I think that a lot of
people will not park in a parking
structure just use a park so I would
suggest to consider the on street
parking when you get to that phase of
the planning thank you thank you yes
someone is standing in the back
oh it's mr. Harrison I can see you now
oh it will it takes time this one took a
few months this one will take a few
months - OH
first of all for those who are not sure
what the memorial is for it's to
memorialize those who gave their life
for our defence in war and I prefer to
call it the veterans memorial rather
than the war memorial because we're
memorializing those who lost their lives
were not memorializing war I was on the
DDA when those monuments were moved and
as Shirley Smith said if we're gonna do
this we're gonna do it right and we did
I was adamant that that property be
dedicated her in some form but I don't
believe it's actually dedicated it's
another form but it gives equal
protection yeah an Ergo that the
property is dedicated for lack of a word
the implication is that the memorial and
its location is also dedicated now I've
seen both plans the the plan to move
with a memorial toward the east I don't
like that as Roger said it takes it away
from the focus of coming out of the
library and going straight to the
memorial and Plan B as I watched the fly
through it appeared that there was a lot
of open area public area on the west
side that does not exist today and the
whole idea is to keep that dedicated
property reserved for the memorial and I
don't think that any of the other
attributes of the park should encroach
on that property that that property and
the memorial are one so that's my view
on a thing and additionally that
memorial has been kicked around like a
redheaded
stepchild when we moved it I believe it
was the third if not the fourth time
that that memorial was moved or the more
the individual pieces were moved and we
finally got them consolidated in one
spot I also agree with threader's
comment about the damage that was done
the last time it was was moved and as I
was saying as the gentleman that did the
planning I think the park looks good I
like the park but you know we're losing
people like myself that even knew
someone whose name is on that memorial
so kind of passionate about just leave
Ian alone and leaving it as an
educational a spot for the kids coming
out of the library an adequate space on
either side for the peaceful enjoyment
and reverence to the memorial thank you
thank you mr. Harrison okay who else
someone else in the back lips Carol
miss hennesey when you all move into the
light I can see you I would just like to
say Pat I'm sorry I heard about your
father and my prayers go with you and
your family you know it's hard I'm
Carole Hennessey - five 80s 12 my Road
and I was part of the moving the
monument from the end of the walkway
where the star dream was to put over
here
it took us three years and a lot of
begging borrowing in going to our
citizens to pay for it
the city told us they had no money so we
went out and got everything donated
that's how we got it moved one hundred
and eighty thousand dollars later over
the three years it took us a long time
to find a perfect place in the city that
would show respect for our Veterans
Memorial Park was thought of the
entrance to Royal Oak at ten mile in 696
and main we looked at a lot of places
and after much conversations with a lot
of people we found that this was a quiet
serene place where people could come in
talk to their loved ones or pray to
their loved ones or whatever and with
the library being there as other people
have said family I mean it's
unbelievable you just have to sit out
there and I'm going to probably start
crying because it's nobody knew where
the war memorial was before now they
leave flowers they leave notes my
grandpa dear grandpa I miss you you know
just heartwarming things like that and
they see it because they're coming out
of the library in teaching their
children of
when they come out as a family they're
walking by it and it's a lot of
importance there because I think people
can see it and can go in pray there or
talk to their loved ones like it's been
said that the monument is very fragile
it has been moved at least two times
that I know of and it may have been
moved three we know we had gotten them
one crack this last time it got moved so
I'm afraid if we move it any more it
might crack and then it's been the
perfect spot for people just to come and
stop i i've sat here on a Saturday
afternoon and people come from farmers
market or come from Main Street and they
stop I it's it's amazing it really is
and I just thought that you could put
maybe flower gardens behind it if you
needed something to dress it up on the
other side to keep it where it is and
then the location has been great for our
veterans we've got the handicap ramp
where
handicapped people can get up there with
their wheelchairs and so on and so forth
so they can get right up to the monument
and that was an important thing that we
wanted to do and we just have more and
more people visiting the monument than
ever before so please for our veterans
let it remain where it is and for their
families I don't know if you saw but in
the flower bed next to the on the west
side of the monument there are three
more monuments and it I didn't see it in
the renderings so I just want to make
sure that no matter what you do with the
monument
those three go with it because we went
and got them from other places so all of
our wars and all of our monuments would
be in the same place there's four yeah
there's six all together I wasn't able
to come to the DDA meeting today
there was one today right correct yes
yeah okay but I thought had the last UDA
meeting that they said that they were
all for not having it moved
what uh what the DDA asked for was to
see an option with it not being moved oh
okay
okay so um the other thing is is after
everything I've heard that if we don't
move the monument and the expense of the
monument could go towards the restrooms
because I think if you're going to have
a park and you're going to have water
splash pad then you need bathrooms
because you got to take the kids
someplace and like the lady from the
library said you don't want them going
to the library being all wet so I think
that would be an expense to save not
moving the monument and using it for
bathrooms thank you please consider our
veterans and being in a quiet respectful
place thank you thank you miss hennesey
there was someone else that step there
stood up in the back
deniz and Laurie Owen Moreland I'm
actually here to speak as a as a
resident this time so the one thing I
really want to touch on quickly is the
hill I do have to say I had a really
good conversation with with Andy at the
farmers market it really appreciated the
opportunity to have interaction with him
the one thing I indicated to him is that
has a resident a father of young
children that to me to Hill would be a
very nice feature to have you know
whether it's as a sliding Hill and also
just simply as as you pointed out
yourself already as a just an
interesting feature to kind of break up
the park a little bit I think also after
what we just heard about the war
memorial although I'm not gonna express
any opinion on where it should be but
you know I don't know for instance one
option might be and it sounds like the
DDA might have touched on that already
- perhaps configured a hill in such a
way or rotated slightly toward Hill
itself almost become some kind of a
natural barrier behind the memorial to
kind of give you a little bit more of
that pocket that quiet pocket that
people seem to be looking for and then
again you know it kind of touches on the
other part of it - of thing - Hill in
general when you kind of look at the
layout I think does a really nice job
both still creating an open space on one
side at the same time kind of divine you
to park up I mean I know you know
everybody's different average obviously
and people don't all show up - not
everybody likes the wide open space to
come to a park to do and I know I know
personally when I go to park I like a
little quiet corner to sit in other
people like to that lounge on the grass
you know and I think the nice thing is
because of that hill that single feature
in some ways kind of allows for all of
that to happen in a single space in
addition to that as somebody pointed out
to it of course it also creates a little
bit natural amphitheater - positioning
the stage I think it seems to me like
the ways position is much smarter than
the way post position and the early
renderings were was facing the library I
think with the sound traveling hopefully
the way it's traveling and in the
rendering right now hopefully that also
will alleviate perhaps a little bit of
sound or nuisance that Piper curated
from from any performances that
happen at the park and then the other
thing the last thing I do want to echo I
got you know we talk all the time this
is really bad we I talked to Emily all
the time and I've just told forgotten it
I do want to echo Emily's comments too
about the parallel parking or some other
kind of parking you know a longer Park I
think is gonna be really helpful also in
addition to that you know when when it
does come to the War Memorial our
Veterans Memorial that you know it
allows for for those people that are not
very mobile to easily access that
memorial as well so oh no I mean I'm
very happy with what was presented as a
resident and hopefully yeah
I guess I'll have a park tour give me
happy of proud of appreciate okay thank
you who else mr. Ellison I recognize you
with your vision Jim Allison 1309 Mohawk
Royal Oak I want to thank first of all
the task force and design team for
coming up with these these options we've
got I thought the process they did at
the farmers market at night was
extremely helpful and the people there
were very receptive to ideas personally
I like plan a I I like the articulation
of the grounds plan
Plan B makes everything look too flat
and I think that's not what we want I
would from a visual aspect I like the
articulation of the up and down with the
hill and and with the rock climbing on
the one end I think those are all good
aspects for the image we want to portray
on our downtown park the Veterans
Memorial is a very key part of this we
have many many people as we've learned
over the years or that are very adamant
and very passionate about that memorial
whether it moves or not it's not that
important to me I think that if we
keep it where it's at which i think what
most people would prefer I know that
there was a discussion about making it
difficult for the sidewalk cutting
across I think we can design something
that would work the thing I would
caution is not put a lot of concrete
around their memorial as mr. Harrison
said I'm gonna agree with mr. Harrison I
hope the world doesn't stop but I agree
that we should not put more concrete
around that memorial because it just
becomes an invitation to make that into
a recreational space and I think what we
need to do is to do everything possible
to give that memorial as an isolated
space something that people can go in
there and then quietly reminisce or pay
paid heritage to the people on Memorial
without the worry of the of the noise
and and and stuff happening in the park
getting in their way so if if the
memorial gets moved make sure you
secluded I don't think it needs to be
that open it needs to be open enough for
the services to happen there but not
open enough that looks like just another
open space in the park wherever you put
it I think you need to be very aware of
the attractive nuisance it becomes and I
don't mean this the memorial is a
nuisance for kids to come and climb on
it and play on and skateboard on it and
I think getting that aspect away from
where the recreational park part of the
park is going to be is going to help
that aspect that you won't have kids
trying to climb it and that kind of
stuff so it's it's it's very important
to people it's very sacred I think we
need to treat it with reverence and I
think we need to move at some place in
the park where it's prominent but yet
secluded thank you anyone else
I don't see anyone else standing last
call for any other public comments okay
we're gonna close public comments then
and move on to the last item on our
agenda which is items that are not on
the agenda
anything else that staff needs to advise
us of anything else from the design team
at this point no okay I think we're
looking then at perhaps setting the date
and time of the next meeting where we
could make some decisions here January
15th this one the DDA meets in the late
afternoon and you're suggesting that we
meet like at 6:30 right afterwards I
can't be here but I can submit my
comments we've been writing okay I
should check my own calendar okay cuz
Commissioner debuck is not here either
and I'm sure he'd like to be here for
that meeting
okay
anything else before this commission I
just want to comment based on the
comments that we've had tonight it in
terms of the memorial I think it's
really interesting and it's something
that I'm really struggling with there
are components of that memorial that you
wanted to consider as secluded you know
as miss hennesey said people come there
to honor their grandfathers or whatever
and they're it's they wanted to be
saluted in private and and and
thoughtful but on the other hand in its
current location it's an active
attractive place where people come out
of the library and go to the memorial
and teach their children about it which
is a much more active activity and I
think the challenge for us is to be able
to meld those two ideas make sure that
it still maintains its secluded status
quiet if it can be done in the current
location but yet also make sure that
it's not so secluded that people don't
know that it exists so that people
actually see it and go to it which is
what happens where it is now so I think
in terms of all of these issues that we
have in front of us they've certainly
been narrowed to the issue of the
topography of the park but also how you
treat that memorial and balance the
secluded aspect of it and one aspect but
also make it an attractive feature that
families and so on we'll see and we'll
want to we'll want to go and teach their
children about and so on that to me is
going to be it for me that's gonna be
the toughest issue is balancing those
two conflicting issues here so we've got
about three weeks to think about that
and then we'll all come back together on
the 15th if anyone else has comments or
knows of other people that has comments
please communicate them to us we've
you've got all of our emails and you can
go through the staff send them to the
staff and will then forward them to us
send them to the city manager who will
then forward them to us and then we will
synthesize all of those as well and then
hopefully come up with
on the 15th and a recommendation to the
City Commission the City Commission will
make the ultimate decision on the final
concept here but in the meantime the
design team is going to be working on
those other components that they can
work on which really don't need a hard
line decision on that are going to be
elements of this park
yes mr. Arvind I'm sure after hearing
these comments
the design team may be considering how
to redesign that area and I'm wondering
if between now and the 15th they might
be having an alternate which sort of
solves the problems that commissioner
Luke is talking about is that possible
I'm sitting here thinking about it as
well we couldn't find ourselves in a
design vortex that will never end though
so we've got to come to a decision that
may not be a popular one at a certain
time but you know one that is won best
for the the park the Veterans Memorial
the library all together
there's compromised we made no matter
which way you slice it
so mr. Douglas I do recall that in the
Charette work that we did in advance of
this with several hundred people
participating there at that time did
seem to be a comfort with moving the
veterans memorial within the park as
long as it was treated respectfully so
if we look at sort of the broad public
input that we did have on that subject
there may be more consensus on our
ability to move it as long as we treat
it well mm-hmm okay
I think initially I was very inclined to
leave it where it is for reasons stated
I think with the design that that
solitude of that memorial is going to
disappear with the park that's what I
was concerned about and I think from
what we've heard from the audience and
from the resident
is that they like the quiet in the
solitude of that area and I don't
believe that's going to exist with the
design of the park the other concern is
the fragility of the memorial itself I'd
hate to see become more damaged than it
had been in the last move right yeah
that's always concerned and it
there are obviously experts who are
experts at actually doing moving and
that you know that this wouldn't be if
it is indeed craft which I think it is
this wouldn't be the first thing that
they have had to deal with you know
there are ways to do that carefully and
safely it's more of a challenge but it
can be done but it is certainly a
consideration definitely you have to
think also of the the type of activity
that's going to be there right now
there's a lot of construction activity
but when the Henry Ford is open there's
going to be a lot of walking elective
'ti back and forth between the entrance
which will be here in the center and to
the parking structure which will bring a
lot of pedestrian activity a lot closer
to both the fountain and the water the
veterans memorial than there is now and
that there has been even when it was a
parking lot so you have gonna have to
keep in mind too that there will be more
activity it will be noisier in that area
more activity once the Henry Ford is
open and it'll be closer to the memorial
to the memorial so there might be some
benefit to moving it just so that it's
going to be in a more quiet space a
little further in but I don't know where
those are things we're gonna have to
contemplate in the next three or four
weeks over the holidays while we're
sipping eggnog this is something we're
gonna have to consider yes ma'am
I've been thinking about this and talked
to several people I know who are
veterans in the same dilemma they want
everyone to see it to know it's there to
tell their kids what it's for and they
want somewhere quiet to contemplate the
quiet contemplation generally seems to
be the most important if considered it's
not a massive park so I spend a lot of
time in that stretch between the
now the parking structure and the
library in the farmers market with my
small children and we have talked about
it but I think that it wouldn't be so
far away from the entrance to the
library or anywhere else if it was moved
slightly that that would reduce and I
think what it might reduce is having say
your three-year-old bolt out the front
door of the library and immediately run
out the steps and jump off the back
shrieking maybe with a skateboarding yes
yes okay I will point out that if you
look at the renderings version a where
the Memorial moved east gives it a
backdrop of flowers and plants and trees
whereas version B with it in its current
spot leaves it backed up with the open
area of the park
so in terms of giving it a frame a
picture frame as it were version a
really does that inversion B leaves
people in the audience with the Sun in
their eyes for two ceremonies a year I
will add good point something yet also -
good sir okay any other comments do you
know Andy do you know how far you'd be
moving it I mean is it really just 30 or
40 feet it's I mean that's that's a
rough it's probably closer to the 40
feet I mean it's the one thing I would
recommend if the cracking is a fear you
know what we do is kind of move from
conceptual and let's literally do an
investigation let's call somebody who
does move these things and have them
take a look at it to see what in fact
the crack looks like so that we can
check that box off yes it's highly
likely it's gonna crack again or no if
it's done correctly you know we can be
very sensitive with it and move it so it
sounds like if that's fear there are
ways to to maybe investigate that a
little bit further that's something you
can have for their January meeting yeah
we've actually already reached out to a
couple of people not here in this area
because we didn't want you know word to
get around but it it can be
and we know that it needs to be looked
at so we can take that to the next step
find out if we don't have that piece of
information we make a decision to not
move to remove it like if it's not
feasible that takes that kind of helps
us me job
do we need to reconfigure the part and
figure out a way to make it work where
it is or not sounds like that would be
an important piece of information I
think you're right yeah yeah because if
the experts say don't touch it then we
don't touch it yeah absolutely and then
we have to figure out how to make it
work so with a few people okay there's
any recommendations for anybody that has
experience with it as well we'll be
happy to reach out to those people -
okay yeah all right
anything else on this group all right
then I'll accept a motion to adjourn
motion motion by mr. Auburn supported by
Sarah any discussion all those in favor
say aye
motion passes thank you all for coming
this evening come talk to us email us
keep the dialogue going and then we'll
see you all on the 15th
