Announcer: AQ's Blog & Grill.
Guy: Back then when I came back to Apple the
second time in '95, I started
something called The Evangelist.
This was a list server that had
44,000 subscribers, so you would just tell
good news to this
list.
In a sense, it was like social media.
It was broadcasting
news.
I'm a big believer that it would have been
easier,
although arguably, there would have been more
noise so there
would have been more competition for attention.
The mechanism
would be better than . . . back then if you
had email, you were
state-of-the-art.
We would not be having this conversation via
Skype back then.
You or I would have to fly to each other.
Allan: That time at Apple, in both stints,
you had a relationship with
Steve Jobs.
What were the . . . I know the day after he
died,
you were I think, in Spain.
You did a presentation and you
altered it to reflect your experiences with
Jobs.
What were the
3 things that come to mind that you learned
from that
experience?
Guy: I think the most important thing I learned
from Steve is that design
counts.
In a world of mediocrity, design counts.
Secondly, I
learned that customers often cannot describe
what they need.
The
can tell you, "Better, faster, cheaper of
the same thing,' but
they cannot tell how to leapfrog.
The third thing I learned is
that if you're an A Player, you hire people
better than you, not
worse than you.
A Players hire A+ Players; B-players hire
C-
players.
I think those are the 3 most important things.
Allan: Excellent.
That's great advice for people in startups
now.
How
do you see the connection between culture
and innovation?
Was
that something you've seen grow?
Guy: Yeah.
I think people think about this too much.
Basically, when you
have a Chief Cultural Officer, it's time to
get worried, because
culture should just be growing organically.
You shouldn't have
some MBA in charge of making sure that the
ping pong tables are
in place.
I don't quite get that.
The desire to innovate starts
at the CEO.
If the CEO is into innovation, fine.
If not, if they
just create this Chief Innovation Officer,
that's also a bad
sign.
Innovation should be just core to the company.
You
shouldn't have to assign a special group to
innovate.
Allan: It's like oxygen.
Guy: Exactly.
Allan: It just permeates the thing.
You had an interesting quote
lately, or not too long ago, about inbound
marketing: If you
want to spend your money, use traditional
advertising and
marketing stuff.
If you want to invest your money and get a
return on it, use inbound.
Guy: I'm a big believer in, actually, free
marketing.
I take it a personal
insult if I have to pay for any marketing,
and it's because of
social media.
If you develop a follower base on the services,
you should be able to do most of this stuff
for free.
I've never
been in a situation where I had $200 million
to introduce a
product.
For those people who do, hallelujah.
God Bless you.
I've never been in that situation.
Allan: One of the companies that you co-founded
was Fog City Software.
You've talked about your co-founder as being
great.
What makes a
great co-founder?
Guy: A great co-founder is someone who has
skills that are different from
you.
Obviously, I'm marketing and social media.
The co-founder
of Fog City was a real engineer, product design
or product
management engineer.
I just cannot do that stuff and he hates
marketing, so it's that kind of relationship.
I think what many
companies do, or many teams do, is they hire
in their own image;
engineers hire more engineers.
The problem is you need to sell,
and if you're a sales guy and you hire more
sales people, the
problem is somebody's got to make it.
You need to hire people
who have complementary skills, not duplicate
skills.
Allan: What's your philosophy on bozos and
having bozos in your
company?
Guy: As I said earlier, B Players hire C Players,
C Players hire D
Players, D Players hire E Players.
Pretty soon, you have Z
Players, and that's called the bozo explosion.
I think you
should always hire people who are better than
you; it is that
simple.
Allan: I guess that's what leaders are supposed
to do.
They're
supposed to create other leaders, not just
employees or
followers.
Guy: Yeah, one would hope.
Allan: That's great.
What is it that Guy does?
You lead a pretty
active life, and some stress or something
must creep in there.
What is your stress releaser?
What is it that you do on your
spare time?
Guy: I play hockey.
I play hockey 4 or 5 times a week.
In fact, I have a
situation today where I have this at 9:30
my time, I have a
radio interview at 10:30 my time.
I have a 1/2 -hour webinar that's
supposed to go from 11:30 to 12:00.
I'm going to change into my
stuff so the minute I'm over at 12:00, I'm
going to get on the
ice, because my pick up hockey starts at 12:15.
That's the
nature.
A lot of people think 'Oh, God.
You're so busy.
You have
all these business meetings.'
The truth is, I'm getting to the
rink.
I never, never, ever have lunch meetings during
the week
because that's when I play hockey.
Allan: You started this whole addiction 10
years ago, when your boy
started to play.
Guy: Yeah.
I started to play hockey at 48, having never
skated in my life.
Now I'm in some of these teams and these kids
are 32.
I say to
them, "You're 32.
Imagine if 16 years from now is when you start
playing hockey.
Then 10 years from now is what I am today.
Wait,
26 years from now is where I am."
Stop playing hockey for 16
years, then take it up, and then add 10 years;
that's who I am
today.
That shakes them up.
Not that I'm good.
Allan: You're just committed.
Guy: Yeah, I am committed.
Allan: We really appreciate your time today.
We do have 2 special
things for you.
I'm just going to my . . . tis has been
rehearsed.
Every guest at AQ's Blog and Grill gets a
pair of
Bold socks; they're a semi-sponsor.
More importantly, though, we
have for you an original [inaudible 07:21]
Ranger jersey to
inspire you.
We're sending you this sweater.
Guy: Thank you very much.
Allan: I'm just reading 'Ape: Author, Publisher,
Entrepreneur.'
When I
grow up, I want to be Guy Kawasaki.
Guy: You should aim higher.
Allan: Thanks, Guy.
Any encouraging words for young entrepreneurs
these days?
Anything you can pass on to them?
Guy: I think the most important piece of advice
I can give them is to
start prototyping.
The prototype is the key.
Allan: Prototypes.
Fabulous.
That's great.
Guy, thanks again.
We'll
look forward to . . .
Guy: Thank you.
Take care.
Allan: You bet.
See you later.
Guy: It's going to Tim Horton's now.
Allan: A double-double.
Thanks for joining us today, Guy.
That was
fabulous.
If you have questions for Guy, you can post
them on
AQ's Blog and Grill.
We'll see you later.
Announcer: AQ's Blog and Grill.
