>>> SAYING BORIS JOHNSON IS A
>>> SAYING BORIS JOHNSON IS A LOSER IS NOT SO MUCH EDITORIAL
LOSER IS NOT SO MUCH EDITORIAL COMMENT AS IT IS SIMPLE
COMMENT AS IT IS SIMPLE REPORTING OF WHAT HAS HAPPENED
REPORTING OF WHAT HAS HAPPENED TO BORIS JOHNSON IN EVERY VOTE
TO BORIS JOHNSON IN EVERY VOTE IN PARLIAMENT THIS WEEK WHEN HE
IN PARLIAMENT THIS WEEK WHEN HE BECAME THE FIRST BRITISH PRIME
BECAME THE FIRST BRITISH PRIME MINISTER SINCE 1894 TO LOSE HIS
MINISTER SINCE 1894 TO LOSE HIS FIRST VOTE IN THE HOUSE OF
FIRST VOTE IN THE HOUSE OF COMMONS.
COMMONS. HE HAS NOW LOST HIS FIRST THREE
HE HAS NOW LOST HIS FIRST THREE VOTES IN A ROW, WHICH MIGHT BE A
VOTES IN A ROW, WHICH MIGHT BE A RECORD FOR A BRITISH PRIME
RECORD FOR A BRITISH PRIME MINISTER.
MINISTER. AND HERE IS HOW BORIS JOHNSON’S
AND HERE IS HOW BORIS JOHNSON’S DAY WENT TODAY.
DAY WENT TODAY. >> UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES, THIS
>> UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES, THIS COUNTRY WILL LEAVE THE EU ON
COUNTRY WILL LEAVE THE EU ON OCTOBER THE 31st.
OCTOBER THE 31st. >> WE HAVE SEIZED BACK CONTROL
>> WE HAVE SEIZED BACK CONTROL FROM A PRIME MINISTER WHO IS
FROM A PRIME MINISTER WHO IS BEHAVING LIKE A DICTATOR MORE
BEHAVING LIKE A DICTATOR MORE THAN A DEMOCRAT.
THAN A DEMOCRAT. THE PRIME MINISTER MUST BE
THE PRIME MINISTER MUST BE STOPPED.
STOPPED. >> HE KNOWS HE CANNOT GET THE
>> HE KNOWS HE CANNOT GET THE GREAT DEAL BECAUSE THERE IS NO
GREAT DEAL BECAUSE THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS A GREAT BREXIT
SUCH THING AS A GREAT BREXIT DEAL.
DEAL. AND HE IS SCARED OF BEING FOUND
AND HE IS SCARED OF BEING FOUND OUT.
OUT. >> HE’S DESPERATE, ABSOLUTELY
>> HE’S DESPERATE, ABSOLUTELY DESPERATE TO AVOID SCRUTINY.
DESPERATE TO AVOID SCRUTINY. >> WHEN WILL THE PRIME MINISTER
>> WHEN WILL THE PRIME MINISTER FINALLY APOLOGIZE FOR HIS
FINALLY APOLOGIZE FOR HIS DEROGATORY AND RACIST REMARKS?
DEROGATORY AND RACIST REMARKS? >> DOES THE PRIME MINISTER
>> DOES THE PRIME MINISTER UNDERSTAND WHY ACROSS THIS
UNDERSTAND WHY ACROSS THIS COUNTRY PEOPLE FIND IT DIFFICULT
COUNTRY PEOPLE FIND IT DIFFICULT TO TRUST A WORD HE SAYS?
TO TRUST A WORD HE SAYS? >> THE HOUSE OF COMMONS PASSED A
>> THE HOUSE OF COMMONS PASSED A BILL THAT WOULD PREVENT THE
BILL THAT WOULD PREVENT THE UNITED KINGDOM FROM LEAVING THE
UNITED KINGDOM FROM LEAVING THE EUROPEAN UNION WITHOUT A
EUROPEAN UNION WITHOUT A NEGOTIATED SETTLEMENT WITH THE
NEGOTIATED SETTLEMENT WITH THE EUROPEAN UNION.
EUROPEAN UNION. THAT BILL HAS GONE TO THE HOUSE
THAT BILL HAS GONE TO THE HOUSE OF LORDS WHERE IT IS EXPECTED TO
OF LORDS WHERE IT IS EXPECTED TO PASS.
PASS. IF IT BECOMES LAW, THE BRITISH
IF IT BECOMES LAW, THE BRITISH PRIME MINISTER WILL BE REQUIRED
PRIME MINISTER WILL BE REQUIRED TO REQUEST A 90-DAY EXTENSION ON
TO REQUEST A 90-DAY EXTENSION ON THE OCTOBER 31st DEADLINE FOR A
THE OCTOBER 31st DEADLINE FOR A BREXIT DEAL IF NO DEAL WITH THE
BREXIT DEAL IF NO DEAL WITH THE EUROPEAN UNION HAS BEEN AGREED
EUROPEAN UNION HAS BEEN AGREED TO BY OCTOBER 31stt.
TO BY OCTOBER 31stt. BORIS JOHNSON HAS BEEN PROMISING
BORIS JOHNSON HAS BEEN PROMISING THAT HE WOULD LEAD THE UNITED
THAT HE WOULD LEAD THE UNITED KINGDOM OUST EUROPEAN UNION ON
KINGDOM OUST EUROPEAN UNION ON OCTOBER 31st WITH OR WITHOUT A
OCTOBER 31st WITH OR WITHOUT A NEGOTIATED EXIT AGREEMENT WITH
NEGOTIATED EXIT AGREEMENT WITH THE EUROPEAN UNION.
THE EUROPEAN UNION. AND TO EXPLAIN IT ALL WE ARE
AND TO EXPLAIN IT ALL WE ARE JOINED NOW BY DAVID SMITH.
JOINED NOW BY DAVID SMITH. HE IS THE WASHINGTON BUREAU
HE IS THE WASHINGTON BUREAU CHIEF FOR THE "GUARDIAN."
CHIEF FOR THE "GUARDIAN." AND I’VE BEEN BRUSHING UP ON MY
AND I’VE BEEN BRUSHING UP ON MY BRITISH PARLIAMENTARY PROCEDURE.
BRITISH PARLIAMENTARY PROCEDURE. IT IS A DAUNTING TASK BECAUSE
IT IS A DAUNTING TASK BECAUSE THE COMPLEXITIES STRIKE ME AS
THE COMPLEXITIES STRIKE ME AS MUCH HARDER TO EXPLAIN THAN
MUCH HARDER TO EXPLAIN THAN ANYTHING THAT HAPPENS IN
ANYTHING THAT HAPPENS IN WASHINGTON.
WASHINGTON. ULTIMATELY, WHEN I SORT THROUGH
ULTIMATELY, WHEN I SORT THROUGH EVERYTHING THAT HAS HAPPENED, IT
EVERYTHING THAT HAS HAPPENED, IT NOW SEEMS HE THAT WHERE WE ARE
NOW SEEMS HE THAT WHERE WE ARE HEADED, AND THIS COULD BE THANKS
HEADED, AND THIS COULD BE THANKS TO BORIS JOHNSON’S MISFIRED
TO BORIS JOHNSON’S MISFIRED STRATEGY, IS ULTIMATELY TOWARD
STRATEGY, IS ULTIMATELY TOWARD THIS 90-DAY DELAY.
THIS 90-DAY DELAY. IS THAT WHAT’S MOST LIKELY?
IS THAT WHAT’S MOST LIKELY? >> I THINK THERE’S A SIGNIFICANT
>> I THINK THERE’S A SIGNIFICANT CHANCE OF THAT.
CHANCE OF THAT. BUT WHAT WE’VE LEARNED OVER THE
BUT WHAT WE’VE LEARNED OVER THE PAST THREE YEARS OR SO WITH
PAST THREE YEARS OR SO WITH BREXIT IS THAT JUST EXPECT THE
BREXIT IS THAT JUST EXPECT THE UNEXPECTED.
UNEXPECTED. AND IT’S BEEN VERY UNPREDICTABLE
AND IT’S BEEN VERY UNPREDICTABLE AND VOLATILE AND HARD TO IMAGINE
AND VOLATILE AND HARD TO IMAGINE WHAT WILL HAPPEN.
WHAT WILL HAPPEN. WHAT I’M LOOKING AT IS RIGHT NOW
WHAT I’M LOOKING AT IS RIGHT NOW PERHAPS TWO SCENARIOS.
PERHAPS TWO SCENARIOS. ONE IS THE NO-DEAL BREXIT BORIS
ONE IS THE NO-DEAL BREXIT BORIS JOHNSON SEEMS TO BE PUSHING FOR.
JOHNSON SEEMS TO BE PUSHING FOR. THE OTHER IS PERHAPS WE’LL
THE OTHER IS PERHAPS WE’LL INEVITABLY END UP WITH A GENERAL
INEVITABLY END UP WITH A GENERAL ELECTION AND JEREMY CORBYN,
ELECTION AND JEREMY CORBYN, LABOUR LEADER, HAS SUGGESTED
LABOUR LEADER, HAS SUGGESTED THAT ONCE LEGISLATION IS PASSED
THAT ONCE LEGISLATION IS PASSED AGAINST A NO-DEAL THEN HE’D BE
AGAINST A NO-DEAL THEN HE’D BE WILLING TO GO AHEAD WITH AN
WILLING TO GO AHEAD WITH AN ELECTION.
ELECTION. SO FAR HE’S RESISTED IT BECAUSE
SO FAR HE’S RESISTED IT BECAUSE HE THINKS IT’S A RUSE ON
HE THINKS IT’S A RUSE ON JOHNSON’S PART.
JOHNSON’S PART. BUT OVERALL IT DOES REMAIN
BUT OVERALL IT DOES REMAIN EXTREMELY DIFFICULT TO SEE ONE
EXTREMELY DIFFICULT TO SEE ONE WAY OR THE OTHER WHAT THE
WAY OR THE OTHER WHAT THE OUTCOME IS GOING TO BE.
OUTCOME IS GOING TO BE. >> SO BORIS JOHNSON LOSES THESE
>> SO BORIS JOHNSON LOSES THESE VOTES AND HE DOES WHAT IS THE
VOTES AND HE DOES WHAT IS THE NORM IN THESE CIRCUMSTANCES FOR
NORM IN THESE CIRCUMSTANCES FOR A PRIME MINISTER, WHICH IS HE
A PRIME MINISTER, WHICH IS HE SAYS ALL RIGHT, THEN I’M CALLING
SAYS ALL RIGHT, THEN I’M CALLING FOR AN ELECTION SO THAT WE CAN
FOR AN ELECTION SO THAT WE CAN SORT THIS OUT AT THE BALLOT BOX
SORT THIS OUT AT THE BALLOT BOX WITH VOTERS.
WITH VOTERS. AND THEN HE GETS DENIED THAT
AND THEN HE GETS DENIED THAT REQUEST TO HAVE AN ELECTION,
REQUEST TO HAVE AN ELECTION, PARLIAMENT VOTES AGAINST THAT.
PARLIAMENT VOTES AGAINST THAT. AND PARTIALLY BECAUSE NOT SO
AND PARTIALLY BECAUSE NOT SO MUCH THAT MANY OF THEM DON’T
MUCH THAT MANY OF THEM DON’T WANT THE ELECTION.
WANT THE ELECTION. THEY JUST DON’T BELIEVE HIM
THEY JUST DON’T BELIEVE HIM ABOUT WHEN THAT ELECTION WOULD
ABOUT WHEN THAT ELECTION WOULD BE.
BE. THAT SEEMS TO BE CORBIN’S
THAT SEEMS TO BE CORBIN’S BIGGEST STUMBLING BLOCK ON THE
BIGGEST STUMBLING BLOCK ON THE ELECTION IS HE DOESN’T BELIEVE
ELECTION IS HE DOESN’T BELIEVE BORIS JOHNSON WHEN HE SAYS HE’D
BORIS JOHNSON WHEN HE SAYS HE’D HAVE AN ELECTION ON, SAY,
HAVE AN ELECTION ON, SAY, OCTOBER 15th.
OCTOBER 15th. IS IT UP TO THE PRIME MINISTER
IS IT UP TO THE PRIME MINISTER TO DECIDE WHEN THIS ELECTION IS?
TO DECIDE WHEN THIS ELECTION IS? >> NO.
>> NO. WHAT WE’VE SEEN TODAY IS
WHAT WE’VE SEEN TODAY IS PARLIAMENT REALLY ASSERTING ITS
PARLIAMENT REALLY ASSERTING ITS AUTHORITY AND TELLING BORIS
AUTHORITY AND TELLING BORIS JOHNSON NO, YOU CAN’T HAVE AN
JOHNSON NO, YOU CAN’T HAVE AN ELECTION.
ELECTION. HE WOULD HAVE NEEDED 2/3 OF
HE WOULD HAVE NEEDED 2/3 OF PARLIAMENT TO GO AHEAD WITH
PARLIAMENT TO GO AHEAD WITH THAT.
THAT. JEREMY CORBYN, THE LABOR LEADER,
JEREMY CORBYN, THE LABOR LEADER, SAID THIS OFFER OF AN ELECTION,
SAID THIS OFFER OF AN ELECTION, IT WAS LIKE BEING OFFERED A
IT WAS LIKE BEING OFFERED A POISON AM BY THE SNOW QUEEN.
POISON AM BY THE SNOW QUEEN. AND REALLY HE SMKTUSPECTED THAT
AND REALLY HE SMKTUSPECTED THAT WAS ALL A TRICK, THAT ONCE AN
WAS ALL A TRICK, THAT ONCE AN ELECTION WAS UNDER WAY JOHNSON
ELECTION WAS UNDER WAY JOHNSON WOULD FIND SOME SNEAKY WAY TO
WOULD FIND SOME SNEAKY WAY TO EXIT THE EUROPEAN UNION WITHOUT
EXIT THE EUROPEAN UNION WITHOUT A DEAL.
A DEAL. IT’S REALLY EXTRAORDINARY, AS
IT’S REALLY EXTRAORDINARY, AS JOHNSON HIMSELF POINTED OUT AT
JOHNSON HIMSELF POINTED OUT AT PRIME MINISTER’S QUESTIONS FOR
PRIME MINISTER’S QUESTIONS FOR THE OPPOSITION TO TURN DOWN THE
THE OPPOSITION TO TURN DOWN THE CHANCE OF AN ELECTION WHERE THEY
CHANCE OF AN ELECTION WHERE THEY THEORETICALLY MIGHT WIN POWER.
THEORETICALLY MIGHT WIN POWER. AND I THINK WHAT WE’RE SEEING
AND I THINK WHAT WE’RE SEEING HERE IS A REAL REASSERTION OF
HERE IS A REAL REASSERTION OF PARLIAMENTARY POWER.
PARLIAMENTARY POWER. BORIS JOHNSON HAS IN THE PAST
BORIS JOHNSON HAS IN THE PAST EXPRESSED ADMIRATION FOR DONALD
EXPRESSED ADMIRATION FOR DONALD TRUMP AND HIS STYLE OF BEING A
TRUMP AND HIS STYLE OF BEING A WRECKING BALL AND FORCING THINGS
WRECKING BALL AND FORCING THINGS THROUGH WITHOUT MUCH DEBATE.
THROUGH WITHOUT MUCH DEBATE. BUT HE’S COME UP AGAINST A
BUT HE’S COME UP AGAINST A PARLIAMENT THAT’S WILLING TO
PARLIAMENT THAT’S WILLING TO PUSH BACK AND WILLING TO PLAY
PUSH BACK AND WILLING TO PLAY HARDBALL AND TAKE HIM ON.
HARDBALL AND TAKE HIM ON. AND SO FAR JOHNSON SEEMS TO BE
AND SO FAR JOHNSON SEEMS TO BE LOSING TO PARLIAMENT.
LOSING TO PARLIAMENT. >> WAS THERE -- LOOKING BACK ON
>> WAS THERE -- LOOKING BACK ON IT, HAVE WE HIT THIS POINT
IT, HAVE WE HIT THIS POINT BECAUSE OF JOHNSON’S MISSTEPS?
BECAUSE OF JOHNSON’S MISSTEPS? DID HE HAVE -- DID HE MAKE SOME
DID HE HAVE -- DID HE MAKE SOME STRATEGIC MISTAKES GETTING TO
STRATEGIC MISTAKES GETTING TO HERE?
HERE? >> SOME SAY THAT.
>> SOME SAY THAT. SOME STILL BELIEVE THAT HE HAS
SOME STILL BELIEVE THAT HE HAS PLANNED ALL THIS WITH THE HELP
PLANNED ALL THIS WITH THE HELP OF DOMINIC CUMMINGS, HIS
OF DOMINIC CUMMINGS, HIS SVENGALI, IT’S ALL A CLEVER
SVENGALI, IT’S ALL A CLEVER GRAND STRATEGY THAT WILL
GRAND STRATEGY THAT WILL ULTIMATELY LEAD TO POTENTIALLY A
ULTIMATELY LEAD TO POTENTIALLY A NO-DEAL BREXIT AND INDEED AN
NO-DEAL BREXIT AND INDEED AN ELECTION WHERE THEY BELIEVE
ELECTION WHERE THEY BELIEVE JOHNSON WOULD INCREASE HIS
JOHNSON WOULD INCREASE HIS MAJORITY AND BE EMPOWERED.
MAJORITY AND BE EMPOWERED. BUT I THINK ALSO TO TAKE A STEP
BUT I THINK ALSO TO TAKE A STEP BACK, REMEMBER THIS HAS BEEN A
BACK, REMEMBER THIS HAS BEEN A POLITICAL CRISIS OF MORE THAN
POLITICAL CRISIS OF MORE THAN THREE YEARS WHICH ALSO MIRED HIS
THREE YEARS WHICH ALSO MIRED HIS PREDECESSOR, THERESA MAY.
PREDECESSOR, THERESA MAY. THE BOTTOM LINE IS THAT BREXIT
THE BOTTOM LINE IS THAT BREXIT PUT BRITAIN IN TERRIBLE SHAPE
PUT BRITAIN IN TERRIBLE SHAPE AND REALLY STILL PARLIAMENT IS
AND REALLY STILL PARLIAMENT IS STRUGGLING TO DEAL WITH THAT.
STRUGGLING TO DEAL WITH THAT. >> DAVID, I WAS HERE WHEN THE
>> DAVID, I WAS HERE WHEN THE FINAL BREXIT VOTE COUNT CAME OUT
FINAL BREXIT VOTE COUNT CAME OUT AND IT WAS THE BREAKING NEWS
AND IT WAS THE BREAKING NEWS THIS HOUR.
THIS HOUR. ENDED UP DOING EXTRA COVERAGE ON
ENDED UP DOING EXTRA COVERAGE ON IT.
IT. AND I REMEMBER SITTING THERE
AND I REMEMBER SITTING THERE THINKING THAT NIGHT THEY’RE
THINKING THAT NIGHT THEY’RE GOING TO HAVE TO HAVE ANOTHER
GOING TO HAVE TO HAVE ANOTHER VOTE ONCE THEY SEE WHAT THE DEAL
VOTE ONCE THEY SEE WHAT THE DEAL IS, WHENEVER THERE IS THAT
IS, WHENEVER THERE IS THAT DIVORCE DEAL, THE COUNTRY WILL
DIVORCE DEAL, THE COUNTRY WILL HAVE TO HAVE ANOTHER VOTE ON
