[MUSIC PLAYING]
CHRIS DALE: Welcome
to Talks at Google.
My name is Chris Dale.
It is my distinct
privilege today
to welcome the sound
engineering and project
team behind the release of
the new "Star Wars Ultimate
Collection" soundtrack.
So what I thought I might do is
maybe turn it over to you guys
and let each of you
introduce yourselves
and talk a bit about what
your role is or has been
on this particular project.
Maybe we start
with you, Patricia?
PAT SULLIVAN: I'm
Patricia Sullivan.
I'm a mastering engineer.
I work at a Bernie Grundman
Mastering in Hollywood.
And for this project, I
resurrected Episodes II and III
for the CD.
I did originally master
all of I, II, and III,
and then Episode I, I
remastered for the CD.
And then I think those masters
got used for the vinyl.
TOM LASKEY: Correct.
PAT SULLIVAN: So that's
where I am with this.
CHRIS DALE: Great.
Dann.
DANN THOMPSON: My
name's Dann Thompson.
I'm a recording engineer
at Skywalker Sound
in Marin County.
And my part in this was
finding the original masters
for episodes IV, V,
and VI in the archives.
And after finding them, I
did the digital transfers
that went off to be used to
make what's inside there.
CHRIS DALE: Great.
Tom?
TOM LASKEY: I'm
Tom Laskey, and I'm
part of the product development
team at Sony Masterworks.
And my part of the project
was finding the audio,
sourcing the audio for
all six soundtracks,
and being a contact for Pat
and Dan, and with a lot of help
from Shawn.
So he'll tell you about himself.
CHRIS DALE: Terrific.
And last, and
certainly not least--
SHAWN MURPHY: I'm Shawn Murphy.
I recorded episodes
I, II, and III,
and had a pretty good idea of
what master material existed
when Tom called.
And I tried to steer him
toward various people who
might be able to find these
masters, not an easy task.
Because you think, especially
episodes I, II, and III,
they're so recent, this material
is going to be easy to come by.
And it turns out it's
not so easy to come by--
and especially high resolution
master material, which
of course we would
like, for LP releases
and for future digital releases.
So my part, aside from
engineering those three
soundtracks and the one
that we just finished,
was to try to unearth the master
material as much as possible,
which I knew about from
the previous episodes.
CHRIS DALE: Great.
Thank you.
So the ultimate
soundtrack collection
comes in three different parts.
There are 11 vinyl LPs.
There are nine CDs that I think
also include a special DVD.
And there's also the
high def version.
Talk us through, why have
three different versions,
and was there some
thinking behind doing vinyl
specifically?
Vinyl for a lot of people,
particularly in the world
of tech, seems so old school.
But I'm sure there's
a lot of value there.
TOM LASKEY: Right.
Well, vinyl right now is
the fastest growing format
in recordings, and
everybody wants vinyl.
Well, not everybody, but a
lot of people want vinyl.
So we thought this was
a fantastic opportunity
to create a really
deluxe kind of package
using state of the
art vinyl mastering
and that kind of thing and
using high resolution files.
And a lot of this was
driven by the release
of the next episode, so the
timing was very good for that.
And obviously, if you're
going to do vinyl,
you want to do all formats.
The vinyl is actually special
because the original vinyl
releases of IV, V, and VI
are different than what
is currently available
on CD for those episodes.
They were done with the
limitations of vinyl.
Timing-wise, you can
only fit so much music
on one disk or two
disks or whatever.
So there were some
editing decisions
made to accommodate vinyl.
So we like the idea of
releasing the vinyl exactly
as it was released
back in the day.
Putting them all
together as one set,
that had never been done before.
And the CD version that
we're coming out with,
that's actually a little
different than the LP version
for IV, V, and VI.
That's the CD versions
that have been out
since, I think it
was '92 or something
like that or maybe a
little more recently,
those have additional material.
And the high resolution
version, that's another thing.
When you talk about
tech, everybody
wants high resolution.
So we did that based
on the LP versions.
So we wanted to offer
different formats
to attract as many different
listeners as we could.
CHRIS DALE: Do you guys
have any favorites?
Someone got an LP
player at home that they
love to throw the vinyl on?
PAT SULLIVAN: Shawn does.
DANN THOMPSON: Shawn does.
SHAWN MURPHY: Well, I've
got a lot of records still.
Not to get into too
lengthy a discussion
of when we left off our analog
production and went to digital,
but there's a lot to be said for
a well-mastered, well-produced
analog vinyl version.
And I do.
I have a couple of turntables
at home that are nice ones.
And I'm sure I'll have
a chance to listen
to these new issues on those.
I play records all the time.
CHRIS DALE: So Shawn, you've
worked on a ton of movies.
You've won Academy Awards.
You've won Emmys, Grammys.
You've worked on "Braveheart,"
"Jurassic Park"--
the list goes on and on.
How does working on
this particular project
differ from all these
other amazing movies
that you've worked
on in the past?
SHAWN MURPHY: Well, I
think the definition
is working on a John
Williams project, number one,
and working on "Star
Wars," number two.
And I think what you have
to say about a John Williams
project is that first
and foremost, it's
all about the music
composition and performance.
There's very little
production compared
to what a lot of other
composers ask for in terms
of a John Williams score.
He's a master composer.
He orchestrates
his own material.
He usually conducts
his own material.
And he gets the
performance that he
wants in the room at the time.
So what our job is, is to get
a great recording of that,
and to make sure we have
all of the nuance, both
technically,
dramatically, emotionally,
that he intends in his music.
So the big effort with
John is the performance.
And we make multiple takes,
we edit things together,
but we don't do much in
the way of production.
Many of the mixes
you hear are live.
They're right off the stage.
They're approved by him,
and we don't touch them,
because that's the balance
in the room that he chose.
And I think that
was true originally
with Eric Tomlinson in Episodes
IV, V, and VI as well, I think.
Eric made live mixes for
most of the material,
and John got the
performances that he wanted,
and that's that.
That's the end of it.
So the difference between
a normal soundtrack
that we might produce these
days and a John Williams track
is that basically,
our approach with John
is very much all about the
music and the performance
and getting the best version
of that we can possibly
get in the recording world
without a lot of production,
other than editorial production.
CHRIS DALE: In my
opinion, John Williams
is the definitive
composer of our time.
I think he's just
done phenomenal work.
Can you guys talk a little
bit more, maybe Patricia,
about working with
John Williams-- what
it's like, how precise is he.
Any one of you on
the panel, I would
love to hear some
personal anecdotes.
PAT SULLIVAN:
Well, John's great.
I think I've worked
with him for-- I
set it right at 15 years, but
I think it's like 20 years.
And he's great.
You always have to
bring your A game.
I think Shawn talked
about this at reddit about
that everything needs to
be at a certain quality.
So you have to do well.
And he's a great guy, and he
writes really great music.
So you can't help but
want to bring your A game,
or even like an A+ game.
The best that you can have
and even more, you will bring.
So I always enjoy
working with him.
I look forward to hearing
what he's written,
and I usually get blown away.
And one thing about John
also-- from the CD world,
when the music gets
divorced from the film
and lives on its own,
John's very, very attuned
to having it be a
really great listen.
He doesn't want
you to get bored.
If there's a dialogue
cue that tends to go on,
he'll just edit it.
He'll be like, oh god.
I've heard this again and
again, and it goes on too long.
We've got to cut it.
He's very attuned to
having the listener have
a good experience
with the music when
it's not married to the visual.
CHRIS DALE: It's interesting.
Before I came down
here, a friend of mine
said to me she had
never seen the movies,
but she knew the song.
She knew the sound.
It just shows you how
iconic the sound has become.
A quick question, I
think, for you day, Dann.
As a hardcore "Star Wars" fan--
that's why I won the lottery
and was able to
interview you folks,
obviously-- I appreciate
the passionate fan
base that gets worked up
around all sorts of things.
I've got to imagine there's
a pretty, pretty fine line
you have to walk between the
hardcore, authentic, the way
it was scored, the way it
was produced back in '76, '77
is exactly the way it should
always sound versus the need
to really update the
music and the experience
for the 21st century.
Can you talk a little bit about
trying to balance those forces,
particularly around
such a rapid group of--
DANN THOMPSON: You said
"forces," I didn't.
[LAUGHTER]
Well, not being part
of the recording
process for the scores
where Shawn was,
a fan myself, I guess I've
always thought of the scores
as one of the
characters in the film.
It stands alone,
and yet is part.
And I think through all the
episodes, it's done just fine.
Maybe Shawn could answer
that a little better than me,
but that's my take on it.
SHAWN MURPHY: Well,
here's the thing.
You have a group
of people who would
love to hear all
the cues complete,
multiple CD versions,
not a note left out.
And you have to remember,
a lot of this music
was written for dialogue
scenes, to accompany action,
and it was never
meant to be played
by itself as a piece of music.
But a lot of people enjoy
that because it's their hobby,
they're a fan, they like that.
Understood.
I think as Pat said, John's
attitude in the CD is to look
at it in a little more
of a normal person--
I say "normal person"--
listen, where the CD plays,
it's sequenced through
and everything.
It makes more sense musically
and doesn't waste time
by repeating phrases or
having a 30 second held note
while we're waiting
for dialogue to finish.
Having said that, I
think there are arguments
for both versions,
and of course, it's
just a matter of money.
It's a matter of time
and money to create
a version of these scores
that is unfettered.
It's uncut, and it's
complete, and it
might represent multiple
CDs or a large download
at high res versus the version
that the other many thousands
of people will like
because they don't
care about having every note.
Which is right, which is wrong?
I don't think there's an answer.
I can go into gory
blow-by-blow descriptions
of what exists on these
masters because I know.
But truth be told, it's hard
to develop a complete uncut
version, because so
many of these cues
get placed to existing picture
quickly after they're recorded.
So do full and uncut versions
of the cues exist anywhere?
Sometimes no.
Sometimes the version is cut
so quickly that you never
have a complete
version of the cue that
hasn't been placed to picture
and been altered in some way.
CHRIS DALE: Tom,
one of the things
that always surprises
me-- I remember
seeing an interview
where a lot of the cast
in the original "Star
Wars" just really
didn't know the kind of
movie that they were making.
A lot of people in the
background on the production
crew were laughing
while they were filming.
But when the lights went
down and the music started,
everybody in the audience,
including the cast members
who were there at the
premiere, realized that they
were part of something special.
To me, what's
fascinating is you have
this sort of orchestral,
symphonic sound,
but the context
is in the future.
What do you think it is about
the songs, the sound that
makes "Star Wars" endure
as long as it's endured?
TOM LASKEY: Well, first thing
is it's really great music.
I mean, it's really great.
What I think-- and I think
I've read this in interviews
with John Williams--
that he was going
for that kind of old fashioned,
serial kind of sound.
If you watch "Flash Gordon,"
the TV show, black and white,
the theme music is
Liszt's "Les Preludes."
Well, that's a long way
from the 25th century.
So I think people
respond to that.
And a lot of those
old serials and stuff,
they have that kind of music.
And one of the many brilliant
things about the music
is the way he's taken
that kind of feel and sort
of a, made it his own.
Because there's
nothing else really
that sounds like "Star Wars."
It draws on all
kinds of influences,
but the music is unique to him.
And it also makes people think
of those old kind of serials.
I don't know if younger
people now who don't have
experience with
that, I don't know
if they respond the same way.
But I know somebody
of my generation,
and I'm already a little young
for "Flash Gordon," although I
saw the reruns, I
responded the same way.
Like, wow, this is great.
It's got that familiar
feel, but yet it's different
and it's new all
at the same time.
CHRIS DALE: We're here.
It's a Talk at Google,
but we're here at YouTube.
And I ran into an
engineer who works
a lot on the sounds of YouTube,
and he was mentioning to me
that over half of our
traffic is mobile,
but the audio quality for
mobile is just so low.
And so they always have
to kind of figure, what
kind of audio range, what
sort of engineering things
do they have to do to make
a better user experience?
Are there formats-- we talked
about digital-- are there
formats or listening experiences
that some of these younger
generations have, their
consumption habits,
that goes into the thinking
when you're pulling something
like this together?
TOM LASKEY: Well,
probably not so much.
I think we're trying to go for
the best sound that we can get.
And one of the whole big
things with mastered for iTunes
is to take the high
resolution and compress it
in ways that still reveal
all the details and as much
of the sound
quality as possible,
but make it more
portable or whatever.
So it's kind of the
best of both worlds.
So it's practical for mobile,
let's say, but it still
has a lot more resolution
than the digital files
people were listening to even
10 years ago, the 128K MP3s.
So that's really what
it's all about, I think.
Good sound is good sound,
no matter what age you are.
CHRIS DALE: Do you guys
ever put virtual instruments
on top of any of this
stuff, or is it--
SHAWN MURPHY: Not with John.
Yes.
Sure.
Some composers actually compose
their scores with that in mind,
and they expect
you to use samples
and other synthesized
elements, or they
want to do some production
which would represent
that sort of approach.
But not with John, no.
John uses ethnic
instruments, of course.
You listen to the "Harry Potter"
scores, some other scores
we could note, where there are
ethnic instruments involved,
but they're played live.
They're not sampled,
and it's not
to replace something
that is live.
Now having said that, on almost
every session, Star Wars I, II,
III, and VII, there
is a synthesizer.
And it's there to either
create atmospheres
or to create a
certain type of sound.
I think the cellist
in "Harry Potter"
is the best example of that.
It's a synth cellist in
"Harry Potter" for every John
episode of that picture.
It's just the sound that he
preferred because of the music
that he wrote, and the ability
to play it on a real instrument
was so limited that that wound
up being a better choice.
But it's not meant to replace
a violin or a trombone
or anything like that.
It's just a specific sound.
CHRIS DALE: Dann, do you have
a moment in the production
process of this that
was just sort of a bang
your head on the wall
moment where it was just
really difficult?
Any scars or trauma that
you want to share with us?
DANN THOMPSON: I think
what was the most difficult
was actually finding
the elements.
The archives is a
big place, and some
of the earlier episodes, which
were the later episodes, just
harder to find.
As time went on after
the albums were made--
multiple copies
of things get made
because they go to different--
there's a European release.
There's an American release.
And so there's different
masters for things.
And so it took a little while to
sift through all those elements
to find the definitive ones.
CHRIS DALE: From
start to finish,
how long did this
process take [INAUDIBLE]?
TOM LASKEY: Once Shawn hooked
me up with Dan and Pat,
it was pretty quick.
It was a couple of
months, I think.
And I know I can speak to what
Dann was just talking about,
finding the right masters.
I was in touch with
Leslie Ann Jones,
and she was giving me
sort of the play by play
of what Dann was finding.
And one day I was like, oh no.
We're not going to find these.
And the next day I
was like, oh wait.
Maybe they found them!
And Dann said, well, we
might have a problem.
No no, I can fix it.
So it was a lot of up and down.
And of course, I'm telling
all of my colleagues.
I'm relaying it to them.
So it's just magnified
exponentially.
So it felt like it went on
a lot longer than it did,
but we're really
happy with the result.
CHRIS DALE: So we talked about
the three different versions.
Do you guys feel like
anything gets lost when
you go from analog to digital?
I mean, that's a bit of
a Pandora's Box to open,
but I'd be curious to--
TOM LASKEY: I'll
let the pros answer.
DANN THOMPSON:
(WHISPERING) Silence.
SHAWN MURPHY: Well, yeah.
The short answer is yes, sure.
Absolutely.
An analog master
converted to digital,
depending on the
gear that you use,
the sample rate that
you choose, and the care
with which you do it, can be a
pretty close replica or not so
close at all.
And I think the topic of our
earliest digital transfers
and productions from
the late '70s to now
is the history of us abandoning
the sound of analog recording
and jumping into a digital
world that was not really
ready at that point for us
to be in it, to the point
now where we actually
have very high resolution
digital recordings
which are excellent,
and we can make a conversion
which is quite accurate.
And I think what
Dann did in terms
of transferring his
analog masters is probably
as close as you're
going to get to a really
high quality, 192 multibit
analog to digital transfer.
But is there a difference?
Yes.
Does it affect the quality
of the original material?
Yes.
Is it perfect, no.
But it's better
than it used to be.
CHRIS DALE: I think I have
time for one more question,
and then maybe I'll open
it up to our audience
for Q&A. This will
be a softball, guys.
I'd love to hear what
orchestral moment, whether it's
the imperial walk, it's
the Leia and Han love song,
what cinematic moment sticks in
each of the back of your minds
that you could watch
time and time again?
And we start with you, Patricia.
PAT SULLIVAN: Me?
Well, I love the
Han and Leia theme.
That, to me, when I
heard it again recently,
it just gripped me.
I just love that
little piece of music.
As far as a visual
goes, in "Star Wars,"
in Episode I, when Qui Gon
is fighting the sith lord
with the double the lightsaber,
and then Obi Wan breaks through
and they do this
great little move,
I always wait for that move.
I wait so I can see that.
So visually, that's like my
favorite moment of all six.
Oh, and then of
course, in Episode IV,
when it opens up with the little
ship going by, and you're like,
oh my god!
And then the big old ship goes
by, and it's like, oh my god!
That one just blew my
little mind at the time.
CHRIS DALE: That's great.
How about you, Dann?
DANN THOMPSON: You a fan, Pat?
PAT SULLIVAN: No.
Not at all.
DANN THOMPSON: For me, it
would be the throne room scene.
It's just so regal
with the brass,
and John is so good
at writing for brass.
It's uplifting.
It gives me chills.
That's where I'm at.
That's what works for me.
CHRIS DALE: Tom?
TOM LASKEY: Well, I have
to say it's in Episode VI,
the big confrontation
with Luke and the Emperor,
with Darth Vader all wounded
watching on the sidelines.
And while all that's
going on, you've
got the big fight outside
with the Death Star
and all the fighter pilots.
So it's like back and
forth with these--
either one of those elements
would be amazing in itself,
but you've got both juxtaposed.
So it's just nonstop.
And the music could have
been really grating,
but somehow it all works to
maintain to this amazing climax
when Darth Vader finally
grabs the Emperor
and tosses him down the garbage
shoot or whatever it was.
It gives me chills every time.
I'm not a fan.
SHAWN MURPHY: I think
that it's the downbeat.
The main title downbeat is
the electric moment for me.
And having recorded it many
times, both for the films
and in Boston and
other places, I
can tell you that the
musicians anticipate
that recording, that piece
more than almost any other.
CHRIS DALE: That's great.
All right.
Well, why don't we open it
up to the audience, both here
and I know we have lots
of folks live streaming
from across the different
Google campuses.
AUDIENCE: Do you have a
favorite way to listen to music,
like a different medium,
whether it's digitally now,
or do you still like
the old vinyls or CD?
DANN THOMPSON: Eight track.
For me, it's digital,
whether it's streaming,
depending on where I'm at.
But I like to get a hold
of high res when I can.
But at home between
the two favorites
speakers is my favorite place.
PAT SULLIVAN: I think
my favorite place
to listen to music is at work.
I really like my speakers.
I can hear a lot of detail.
And too, it's fun when
I get to hear something
that's first
generation, something
that I haven't touched yet.
Then it's kind of cool,
because there's not
a lot of people
that can hear that.
So I'd say my favorite
place to listen is at work.
TOM LASKEY: Yeah.
I guess I would
be more like Dann.
At home is really my favorite.
I have a kind of
finicky system, and I
live in a prewar building, so
the wiring is a little iffy.
So some days it's
better than others.
But man, when I'm having
a good stereo day,
there's nothing like it.
SHAWN MURPHY: Well, we
listen at work all the time,
and we have very good monitor
speakers that are tuned.
And we record most of
our original material
at a high sample rates nowadays.
And so fun to listen at work.
But at home, it's also fun to
listen to vinyl and to digital.
And more recently, I've started
to building a system at home
where I can listen to
these high resolution files
when I bring them
home so I can compare
what I've done at work
to what I've got at home.
Because the home
system is, in a way,
the psychological reference.
It's what I listen
to a lot, and I
know that if it sounded good
at work, I bring it home,
it sounds good at home, I'm
probably in the ballpark
mixwise, sonically.
Unfortunately, this is
a ground breaker a bit,
because there haven't been
a lot of great LP releases
that I've been able to get a
hold of and listen to lately.
But I've still got, I'm told,
way too many LPs at home
that I pull out and
listen to all the time.
So I have a nice system.
It's a Wilson audio system
that I listen to at home.
So it's good.
AUDIENCE: So since you deal
with high resolution audio,
at what point do you think
for human listening is
like the top end of sampling
rates and bit rates,
to the point where after that,
it's just diminishing returns
for most listeners?
SHAWN MURPHY: There's
a camp of people--
I don't want to usurp this
one-- but a lot of people
think 96k was the
best you could do.
And of course, Library of
Congress for a long time
created that standard, 96-24,
and archived a lot of material
in that standard.
And we found when we
had 192 available, when
we made the comparison
to 190-224, that we
could hear the difference
and 190-224 was better.
And then we, a
couple of years ago,
got the ability to record
our mixes at 190-232 bit
and so we did the comparison.
Every time we do this, we do
A/B comparisons that are blind.
And we did the comparison
again, and guess what?
190-232 was better.
And so are we talking about
a vanishingly small number
of people who can tell?
Yes.
But if I can tell,
that's all it takes
for me to want to do that.
So should we go higher?
I guess the question is
should we be going higher,
and my answer is we probably
should be at some point,
as the technology allows.
We should probably be doing
some A/B tests and comparisons
at even higher sample rates to
see if we can get it better.
AUDIENCE: What kind
of details started
appearing more at that point?
SHAWN MURPHY: Well, it's
always a matter of space.
It's a matter space
between the notes.
It's a matter of hearing
the recording venue.
It's a matter of hearing
the individual instruments
in a placement that they were
actually live on the stage.
It's a matter of
ambient retrieval.
It's a matter of accuracy.
I mean, obviously, a recording
is never a live performance.
It's never the same.
But you can have a version of
it that's pretty satisfying.
So it's all those things.
It's all those things.
And like I say, we don't
do this just gratuitously.
We try to set up a very
good A/B comparison,
so we're actually hearing
a comparison that's valid,
and not just something
where we say, oh it's 192.
It's got to be better.
There's no assumption there.
There's no assumption.
AUDIENCE: I was
just wondering-- you
mentioned taking the masters
home and listening to them.
I know I've done
production of my own,
and they sound great
on my speakers,
and then I go listen in
my car, my headphones,
and I can hardly
even recognize it.
I've heard stories of mastering
engineers trying mastering even
on TV speakers and
different kinds of setups
just to see how it sounds.
Is that something
you guys do at all,
or do you just trust
your own setup enough
that it sounds
good in there, you
trust that it'll
sound good anywhere?
PAT SULLIVAN: Well, at
times, I'll listen in my car
because it's crappy
in my car, and so
to just know what
kind of characters
are being brought out in my car.
And then at times, I'll
listen on a crappy computer
to see what that sounds like.
But I basically listen
to what I have at work,
because I feel that if I can
get a good sound there, then
it should translate
to other places.
And then, too, I do make my
clients do all of that, too.
I make them listen in
their car and listen
in a really good space and
listen in a crappy space,
just so they can get an idea too
of what they're listening to,
and that different environments
drastically change the sound.
And I think that they
really need to know that.
AUDIENCE: So one thing I
was wondering about was,
you talked about
tracking down the masters
in the archive earlier.
I was just really curious how
they were stored and preserved,
the masters.
DANN THOMPSON: The archives
building at Skywalker
is the climate controlled.
And there's a section
for the audiotapes,
and they're lined up by episode.
So they were there,
although again, there
were multiple copies of
things with different dates.
And so trying to find
the exact ones to use
took some time and
a little research
on when things were
recorded, things like that.
Jokingly, I think I
found one of the reels
leaning up against this crate
that said "Ark of the Covenant"
on it.
No, it wasn't really
there, but it's
nice to think of it that way.
SHAWN MURPHY: Well, the thing
you have to remember, too,
is there are a lot
of different masters.
Dann found stereo masters
for IV, V, and VI,
which were original LP masters.
But there are film masters, and
there are various iterations
of film masters-- original
scoring masters, dub units,
final print masters on
film are now on Pro Tools
or whatever the format was.
And a lot of those masters
are in boxes not in the vault.
They are in the salt mines,
or they're stored away
someplace where, who knows?
We'll probably have to
open 1,000 cardboard
boxes to find all of it.
And a lot of that material
is our best existing version
of these scores.
Because especially in the
early years in Episodes IV, V,
and VI, we don't have
existing multi-track masters
of all that material.
We do have mixed masters.
And again, like I say,
Eric Tomlinson, like I,
did live mixes.
So you have a good
representation
in Eric's mixes
of what was there.
But those are on mag film, and
they were used for dubbing,
and they were in a box in
the salt mine someplace
that Dann never found, and I
certainly have never found.
And we know they exist, but
it's a bit of a train wreck
to know what we've
got and where it is.
So it's a good question.
TOM LASKEY: Well, let me just
say also part of the issue
too is that the
ownership of the music
has changed hands many times.
So you never really know
when Company B purchases
from Company A, are
they really getting
everything that Company A had?
And then there's company
C, and Company-- it's
tough to keep track
of that stuff.
And that's true of so many
projects in recordings.
The real masters and
the multi-tracks and all
that, they're just
scattered all over.
AUDIENCE: I've noticed
in the last several years
that more and more
orchestras are hosting events
where they'll show a film
while playing the soundtrack.
And my experience
has been that I
thought that the
orchestral sound would
become constantly more prominent
throughout the entire showing.
But I found that
actually, there'd
be times in watching
the film that even
though the orchestra's playing
the whole time, even sometimes
quite loudly, it just
sort of fit with the film,
and sometimes it
would pop back out,
sort of a necker cube effect.
I wonder if you had any
thoughts about this kind
of entertainment, and
also what your experiences
watching a movie, how
does the sound come in
and out in your consciousness?
SHAWN MURPHY: Well, I can give
you the short history of it.
For years, there were
versions of musical pictures,
"Sound of Music,"
"Wizard of Oz,"
around where they would extract
the dialogue and sound effects
and they would play
the orchestra live.
Sometimes they would
do it episodically.
Sometimes they would
play the whole picture.
These things have been
around for a while.
But the modern film with
the orchestra playing
live was really
started in about 2002,
when we did a live performance
of "E.T." at the Shrine
Auditorium.
It was the 20th
anniversary of "E.T."
And this was John Williams
conducting an orchestra,
end to end, nonstop, with
all of the music resurrected
and placed in the film
exactly as it was.
And if you know the Shrine
Auditorium in Los Angeles,
you know it's a large
venue, and the orchestra's
got to be amplified.
And of course, the
dialogue and effects
had to be amplified as well.
It was very successful.
And what came out of that
was this whole movement
toward building dialogue
and effects tracks
with an orchestra playing live.
But what you have
to understand is
it's so venue-dependent
and so operator-dependent
that the mix you get is
going to be very haphazard.
It's not going to be
consistent, and it's not
going to be necessarily
accomplished
by persons who really
know how it should sound.
If it's a concert
hall, you might not
need to amplify the
orchestra at all.
If it's a large venues such
as the Shrine, 6,000 seats,
it might need a
lot of application.
It could be anywhere in between.
And you have to, at some
point, assume the competence
of the person that's making the
balance, which may or may not
be high.
So I think that
what's happened is--
we've seen "Back to
the Future," we've
seen "Home Alone,"
the ones I think
that you're talking about.
It runs the gamut of
quality between really,
really good and
really substandard,
and I think there's
no way of knowing
how it's going to be
because it is so venue
and operator dependent.
It's an entertainment.
The orchestras find that these
things make a lot of money,
and so they are programming
these events more and more.
And I work for some
orchestras that do that.
It's a moneymaker for them.
And anything that makes money
for a classical orchestra,
I'm for.
Right.
But the quality is an issue,
and I think your point is well
taken that it's not consistent.
AUDIENCE: Thank you
guys for being here.
So what inspired you early on
to get into music as a career,
and what keeps you inspired?
PAT SULLIVAN: Me?
DANN THOMPSON: Start with you.
PAT SULLIVAN: Start with me.
Well, I played guitar.
I played accordion
when I was younger.
I was in a band.
We played rock and
blues for beer.
And it was fun, and
I really loved it.
And music moves me.
And when I realized that I
wasn't such a good player,
but I could hear that
magic, I could hear it,
so I wanted to be close to it.
So I was able to find a way
by being on the technical side
of things.
So I could still help
a project be born.
At times I joke and say that I'm
a musical midwife, because I'm
like at the end of the chain,
and I'm yelling at the client
to push, to get the baby out.
And so I can be part of that.
I can help them
shape their sound,
and dot all the I's and
cross the T's, and help them
give their music to the world.
DANN THOMPSON: That's
a hard one to follow.
I grew up with
music in the house,
so it was always a
soundtrack in the background.
And I guess maybe I should
think about it more,
but it could even
have been after seeing
"Star Wars" with such a
wonderful score behind it that
pulled you into the film
that I started playing music
in the background of
the things that I did.
I have to mow the
lawn, and my room
was in the front of the house.
And I'd just shove my
speaker in the window,
and I'd crank up Rossini.
I would play stuff, and it
would just blare down the block.
But my folks seemed
to support it.
I just wanted to
be part of music,
but I never really
wanted to be a performer.
It wasn't my bag.
So I looked to be part of the
chain, and I found a spot.
It's one of the
best places to be,
to observe these
wonderful artisans,
and she says, birth their
art and be part of that
and to help them along their
way as it gets to mastering.
It's pretty incredible.
TOM LASKEY: Well, I also grew
up in a house with music.
My mom was a big classical music
fan, so there was always music.
And she was also
into records, too.
She taught me the difference
between the different labels,
and I grew up with that.
I wasn't very good
at sports or anything
like that, but somehow,
music, I was much better at.
And I learned how
to play the oboe,
and I actually went off to
music school to do that.
But earning a living that
way is kind of difficult,
or it certainly seemed
that way for me.
So I sort of
gravitated, naturally,
to the record business.
I worked in a record store, when
there still were record stores,
and just sort ended up
in the music business.
And I just love it.
Music for me is everything.
It's my religion.
It's everything.
And there's nothing in
the world, almost, that
moves me the way music does.
So I'm just thrilled to
be around it all day.
And working on a project
like this, where I still
have vivid memories of going
to see the first episode
and not really
knowing much about it,
and then just being
totally blown away.
And working with somebody like
John Williams, who I discovered
from his concert works, not
really his soundtrack music,
and then found out later,
it's just really a thrill.
And working with all
the different details,
the packaging details
and the graphics
and all that, there's endless
creative opportunities.
So that's what keeps me going.
SHAWN MURPHY: Well,
it's always about trying
to find a job that encompasses
things you love to do
and things you're good at.
So if you love music and
you love things technical,
you travel down a path that
diverts you several times.
But ultimately you wind
up in a job like this.
I'm very fortunate
to have a job that's
technically interesting
and musically interesting,
and I get to work with
great people all the time.
So it just wound up being
an accumulation of a lot
of experience and time.
And from having a
music background--
I was a brass player
for awhile, but again,
never good enough to
make a living at it--
but an appreciation of music,
and an appreciation of things
technical, and combining
that to make a nice time.
CHRIS DALE: That's great.
I think we're going to
have to wrap up now,
but I would be
remiss if I did not
ask one final question, which
is the elephant in the room.
Episode VII.
Should we be excited?
PAT SULLIVAN: No.
Not at all.
[LAUGHTER]
Boring.
Boring.
Boring.
DANN THOMPSON: There's
another episode?
SHAWN MURPHY:
Well, I've seen it.
[LAUGHTER]
CHRIS DALE: Uh oh.
Now that's a whole bunch of
other follow up questions.
SHAWN MURPHY: But out of order.
We score out of order.
CHRIS DALE: All right.
Well, I'll take
that as validation
for my ticket purchase six
months ago, whenever it was.
OK.
So I think right now, one
thing we do great at at YouTube
is unboxing and unboxing videos.
So we have one of the
collections, a vinyl
collection, right
here in front of us.
So maybe if we could do a
bit of an unboxing here,
I think that would
be terrific to take
a look at what's inside.
DANN THOMPSON: It's
your baby, Tom.
SHAWN MURPHY: It's Tom's box.
TOM LASKEY: This has
a lot of parents.
I'm just one.
PAT SULLIVAN: Ready?
SHAWN MURPHY: Take
the water off.
PAT SULLIVAN: There we go.
TOM LASKEY: We start off, brand
new quote from John Williams.
John Williams' signature.
And so we can start--
DANN THOMPSON: Better
get the order right.
TOM LASKEY: --Episode
I. Episode II.
Episode III.
Here's Episode IV.
Now, let's take a
look because there
are extra goodies in
here, one of which
is this poster, which was
part of the original package.
CHRIS DALE: We'll edit that.
TOM LASKEY: OK.
OK.
Well, this one goes
in the detective bin.
Let's see, what else?
We have these
lovely images here.
Yeah yeah yeah, I know
about the t-shirt.
Coming right up.
Now we were talking about this.
This is really neat
because it's got
the roster of the orchestra.
So all the musicians who
played on this episode,
they're all listed here.
Oh, I'm sorry.
They're all listed here.
And it's a blow by blow.
Maybe the t-shirt's
in the other one.
Maybe we left it
at-- well, anyway.
Oh no.
Here it is.
OK.
So this was also from
the original package.
So you could send away and
get a "Star Wars" t-shirt.
Sorry to say, that
offer has expired.
PAT SULLIVAN: Aw.
Really?
TOM LASKEY: These all have
very nice centerfolds too.
Gatefolds.
Here you go.
It's an alternate covers here.
Back to sequence, here.
And then Episode V had
this really cool booklet
stitched into the-- wait,
hold it over there, right?
OK, so you've got your scary
imperial walkers there.
We've got all this jazz here.
Nice Billy Dee Williams.
OK.
Luke, I am your father.
And then all this stuff.
And Episode VI,
which is only one LP.
That's the way it was
released, so that's all we got.
CHRIS DALE: That's fantastic.
TOM LASKEY: Pretty nice, huh?
CHRIS DALE: Great.
All right.
Well, join me in thanking
our guests for coming.
Patricia, Dann, Tom,
Shawn, thank you so much.
[APPLAUSE]
