So just to fly straight in then, I'll utilise what you've just said - might as well
jump in on some of the stuff you've
shared. So just from a human point of
view, for you as an individual,
what's driven you? Like obviously
not everyone goes as deep as you do into
exploring the nature of humanity and
society and the consequences of our
behaviour,
what is it in you that, you know, put so
much attention on that and so much of
your life into that - what drives you
in that direction?
well I became interested in in
philosophy because i thought they were
really interesting question their
questions you could still argue about
because you know nobody could just say
well look you know I look through this
microscope and you'll see this
and that's the answer so I was
interested in philosophy I was always
interested in having a good argument in
that trying to sort out trying to reason
your way through problems and initially
when I went into philosophy it was that
kind of intellectual curiosity it wasn't
so much a matter of thing about how I or
to live but at the same time I did want
the philosophy that I was doing to have
some connection with with life that is I
didn't want to just do a question like
how do i know that i'm really talking to
you how do I know that you're not a
robot are carefully manufactured
computer image or something of that
thought
that's why I towards ethics and
political philosophy as well
and once I got into that then I started
thinking this is not just a theoretical
Enterprises is not just in like computer
out today
this is relevant to how we are to live
and if I done that living in accordance
with the conclusion that i'm raising my
way to when and why I'm undercutting the
worth of what i'm doing and cutting the
importance of what i'm doing right
so from you as a this is hard to break
but how much would you feel this is a
intellectual process view versus a
feeling process in terms of life in
terms of your conclusions and your
behavior and how you feel other humans
should pay how much is a based on logic
and observation and how much is it just
an intuitive feeling in you as a person
it is very really not an intuitive
feeling in the eye
I don't go by intuitive feeling it sure
is a logic and observation but obviously
the observation evidence that you can
light and then applying your ability to
reason its logic in a sense it's not
formal logic that you learn in textbooks
that if the ability to reason about
things and
and yes you know I we all have
intuitions and feelings and so on
and you might say if i didn't have some
empathy with others or compassion for
them or concern for the well-being of
either human or animal then I wouldn't
be holding the views that I do about it
it had a fairly general level it took
that fairly minimal level and I
certainly don't want to go by my kind of
got instinct you know the fact that
somebody might describe something to me
and I feel like yak
that's not a reason for thinking that
it's wrong I mean you only have to look
at history and people going are you a
cat a whole lot of things that we have
done think around at all
short absolutely so so on that . then if
you can see how throughout history we've
attempted to apply different levels of
morality to various areas of life but it
would you agree from an observation
point of view doesn't seem to be
changing the overall fabric of human
behavior like whether we you know get on
to women's rights all the rights of
different races or whatever the case may
be
gay rights in society or even people
that have been through a massive
oppression like the Jewish people in the
wall
it doesn't seem to lead to any sort of
spread awareness changes the nature of
humanity in society
we appear to be recycling the same
behavior and a different disguise maybe
with better theories and ideas or better
laws that make us look like we're
improving but my observation is
psychologically we're slipping and
particularly my field of work i'm saying
anxiety depression and suicide on the
rise and our ability to do with it is
listening and I feel like the status of
psychological thought on the planet
pretty much is indicative of the nature
of we're actually at not know what we
tell ourselves for how good our systems
of functioning out it's more the reality
of where we're at as a species
individually and collectively so I'm
just wondering how you observe that to
be and whether you're feeling like we're
on the downhill track to nowhere or do
you actually feel like we're slowly but
surely sorting out the human condition
and learning how to function in a better
way
I'm gonna have to disagree with you
there I i think that we have been making
progress steadily over the centuries and
millennia or even if you like that there
are you know you can go back any more
like 20 . and there will be a lot more
violence against other human beings that
the chances of any individual living on
the planet of dying violently of the
heads of other human being would have
been would be greater in any past . then
than they are today and that you know
despite the fact that of course this is
not a steady appeal past it has its ups
and downs including you mentioned in the
middle of the 20th century was a
terrible . i think we have since then
clearly there have been fewer Wars fewer
violent deaths in one
there's also writes of the murder of
fallen pretty dramatically throughout
the last couple of centuries
I also think that some of the issues you
mentioned behavior is significantly
different and you don't have to go back
very five you know the university that i
teach at in the United States at
Princeton University did not admit women
until the nineteen seventies did not
really have anything to talk in
african-american until well into the
20th century and you know that that's
all times and you couldn't run the
University really now in the way that
principle was run just a hundred years
ago in terms of being a white male
so you know i think in a lot of these
respect
we are doing better maybe not every
country in the world is doing better
they're certainly that are lagging
really behind but but i think the
general general trend is definitely
upward
so you think that means we're growing as
people or do you think we're just
putting better systems and laws in place
to make us behave better
well I think it's probably a bit about
it
I think that having better if I think
having better fitting to the laws in
place is really important and and having
laws to get reasonably well in fourth is
important i think that's one of the
reasons for the decline in violence
domestic buying of violence within a
nation but i do think that has an effect
on people you change the law you know I
mean look at look at racial integration
in the American fat right you go back
what is your back 75 years now and most
white people would not have wanted to
sit next to an african-american in a
restaurant or on a bath and that didn't
change because suddenly white people in
the fat said I was fine there's nothing
wrong with getting exact in American it
changed because of the court said you
can't be a great restaurant and buses
but after the court said that
now those same southerners or the
children or grandchildren
I'm you know one thing twice about
sending extra an african-american
so they've kinda rough
so I mean I see what you're saying
obviously there's no debate there I see
those level of improvement but then I
also look at the overall outcome and if
we could have slipped in the the way we
treat animals into this discussion at
this particular point might be an
interesting injection
because why do you think it is then that
we're learning how supposedly to treat
each other better and with more respect
and to be more
that's a wide circle of understanding of
different types of people and background
and all that kind of thing so i can see
there is a certainly broadening out of
acceptance in that sense
why do you think it is when it comes to
other species we still seem to be
justifying the treatment of them in a
completely different framework thought
we're not we're not be using all this
wisdom in terms of how we should treat
each other meaning we learned that
suffering is wrong and the bullying is
wrong and that all those things that
inappropriate be putting upon anything
weaker and more disadvantaged
so we look at more as a general idea
we seem to be applying it in a very
narrow way just towards their own
species as opposed to just looking at it
as a way of being like meaning of give
your if something is weaker and and more
disadvantaged than you deserves more
respect not less respect and yet we seem
to still be taking advantage of anything
that has no say if we can get away with
it so much like there's nobody watching
over the top of us
so we're pretty much free to do what we
like so we're not being we only judge
each other on human behavior but we tend
to other than vegans or animal activists
tend to justify cruelty and abuse and
murder to gain pleasure from it
and why do you think that is somehow
still floating in so conveniently and
that and that animals are killed in the
billions every year and in the most the
time in horrific conditions still it's
not you know I'm obviously against
killing . i think it's a mindset that is
corrupt in the human brain that needs
addressing but outside of that
what why do you think we're still seeing
this why is this such a heavy part of
society in the face of what you're
presenting in terms of our improvement
I think this is a really big change that
we're talking about here to get away
from treating animals as food
chillin with the food is a really very
very big change
I mean you said we're when error in a
sense of of whom we are treating well
and whom we have concerned for yes but
in fact everything I think we've made
progress and and if you get to let's say
not the nineteen forties the late
nineteen forties then you would say well
what people make great progress by half
the Universal Declaration of Human
Rights which is that all human beings
have ride and compared to what was
happening
obviously in the early thirties and in
Nazi Germany and so on
that was an important decoration
so having reached that stage
it's going to take some time to go to
the next stage which isn't a real wait a
minute
recognizing the rights of all members of
our species is enough
we've got to extend this to all sentient
beings to all beings
you can feel pain and and I think that's
a really quite revolutionary change
there's virtually nothing in all of
human history that where that happened I
mean there are occasional you know would
have your Emperor soccer or something in
India tried to ban or water a little bit
you know it is
it's great in life I didn't then I'd
like the one I'm a long time ago
so this is a very fundamental change
about something that's pretty a central
to our lives
what we eat and it requires a massive
mindset and i so you know it's
comparable to the movement to abolish
slavery but i think it actually goes
even deeper because pretty much
everybody eat meat or animal products
not everybody and flies so if if the
anti-slavery movement
took you know a hundred years or
something -
more or less triumph and having
completely trying to get close there
then I think we have to expect this
movement like at least a hundred years
as well now i know personally I have
become quicker but thats I really it
it hasn't had that long I think the
modern animal rights movement from the
mid-nineteen seventies are not even here
yet
I think it will take longer but i do
think that there are some times that the
positive things happening
ok so doing it um
raise them all to propose that
true nature of humanity could be
witnessed not by how we behave when
there are laws put upon us but how we
behave way there are laws
so when it comes to how we treat each
other there's there's been a lot of you
know enforcement put in place to get us
to be nice to each other as as a human
species but when it comes to animals
there are very few laws there are some
obviously but but very little
I mean in the main people can do what
they like they can leave their little
dog in the backyard 24 7 and just check
some food and never Pat it leave it
sleeping in the rain and this and no one
can really do anything about it and I
see this happening all the time you know
and that's just one of these example
through to how we treat the animals we
eat etc
I guess I guess the point I'm getting at
is it is there not more true than our
behavior seen in how we treat animals
because there's no one telling us what
we can do isn't that I feel like we need
to look at the truth of what we are as a
species because obviously I think we're
on the same journey is as men on planet
earth where we're looking to see a more
conscious expression of human life with
with more awareness and morality and and
learning how to communicate with each
other rather than fighting with each
other
my concern is is that I don't feel that
people are improving in the manner that
that you are observing and and I think
the way they treat animals is an obvious
example of that
I'm given the opportunity to be called
people will still be crawling and I
don't see this shift from within and I
feel like it has to be an internal shift
has to be the nature of how we function
needs to change and at the moment it's
all fear-based functioning which means
it creates a very narrow conceptual
world where we pick and choose what we
care about
that's the nature of concept but in a
conscious space we just see the truth of
everything
so if something's crawling scroll so for
me the observation is we're still on a
theory based pathway and the base
pathways to me just get narrower and
narrower and so I'm observing something
very different to you where I feel like
society is actually shrinking in its
advancement as opposed to expanding and
I feel the way we treat animals is a
perfect perfect proof of of just that
where's I know you're saying something
very different and but obviously there's
only one truth that is so I don't look
at this is whose opinion is right i
guess i enjoy these discussions to see
whether we can just not out what is
really going on this planet and are we
going to make it as a species because it
looks like you know they make this
century is going to decide whether you
know we get there or not short of a
meteorite taking us out
but if it's left up to their own
behavior
what are we really going to do here like
in your wine but what do we really need
to do is I don't think we have a hundred
years to slowly work out how to treat
animals nice at all
I don't think humanity is going to make
it that far I don't think the planet
will last that long
and do you see it any truth in what I'm
saying or do you feel like that it if we
really are on track at the moment
I
lot of things that i would say about
what he said one is that I think human
nature is
and is it something I mean it has it has
the possibilities of acting in white
horrible wise and we are you sometimes
see that with animals that we certainly
know if you study the behavior of really
perfectly ordinary German in the under
Hitler and so on
i can buy absolutely appalling like but
then you can put on the other side
stories of people who behind a very
optimistically and societies which are
generally you know decent caring society
where people care about others
so I think it is it does depend on the
circumstances I think we just have to
accept that and I i wouldn't say it's
necessarily feel about it
I think there's a variety of social
pressure that act on people and they
respond in different ways and you can
certainly sometimes here you can have to
change behind your son of AI by threats
of punishment in some cases but there's
an awful lot of good things that people
do when I'm not my / by traditional
punishment
so in that i would say I think it
depends on what the circumstances out
that we were able to create in order to
encourage more altruism more
compassionate behavior and so on
I'm in terms of what you said about you
know we don't have and reduce to save
the planet
unfortunately I think of the planet
would continue however cruelly treated
animal going to be to me there are other
major threat to whether we are the pc
survive climate changes is certainly one
possible 1 and use of nuclear weapons
feel another love like that stretch
repeated a little bit over the past
couple of decades but there are united
by our terrorism people talk about a
whole variety of the possible threats to
a species and I'm not sure whether we
will or will not overcome them that
i agree with you that I think if we can
survive another century of thought then
probably I probably will get better
because we are certainly making progress
in science and technology that will give
us the ability to cope with our basic
needs more easily than we have been in
the past and that ought to make it
possible for people who i guess the more
accepting of of the names of others
I mean because the key to all this is
obviously us as a species to understand
because every problem we try and fix is
created by us in the main you know
whether that be on a bigger global scale
or even in our individual lives
I mean more often than not if people's
lives are missed that they've made it
that way and you know if they work on
themselves and understand themselves and
step into a more truthful place they can
create a life that is is makes more
sense more true to them more harmonious
with their connection with whatever it
is that they're interacting with so
whether it be you know the guy across
the road with his wife that can't really
get on with these kids or whether it's
all of society destroying the planet and
creating an environmental crisis the end
result is it starts and what I don't see
happening is enough discussions about
human behavior
I don't it to me that should be on the
top of the list so we can establish and
discuss what's going on and we can look
at the ethics of it and we can look at
where we're at and the new laws that
have come in and the new rights this and
that but ultimately why are we looking
at why we create why is it like this in
the first place because we've made it
this way and I think human behavior is
the key
and I think we need to understand how
the human by words have created a
conceptual reality which creates all of
our behavior and then therefore that
creates the society we live in
it's like Einstein proposed you know you
can't solve a problem using the same
thinking that created it and I
completely agree and I don't think
that's what we're addressing I think
we're trying to solve all the stuff that
you're looking at using the same
thinking that created the problem and my
observation is that even though it looks
like we're improving we're actually
making it more complex and creating more
problems
the more we find new solutions
and I get make this saying i think the
the the observation that tells me that
is also human behavior and human beings
of more insecure and more disturbed than
they've ever been and the more
insecurity and become they behave
I don't accept that statement you know
you may see some of the motor third one
but I I don't know any evidence that
human being that more to third then they
have ever been
you don't think there's more fear on the
planet in the way people are connecting
and the fear of terrorism their fear of
this
they seem to be terrified of everything
yes there they clearly as terrorism now
but then you know there's no fear that
bandits will come in the night defend
from the hill back your house right your
wife and you go off with the coral which
may be people in villages in many parts
of the world still fear and certainly in
previous centuries people here that and
that's actually a lot more likely than
that you are going to be a victim of a
terrorist attack which after all
terrorism killed what some thousands of
people in the since nine eleven maybe
tens of thousands
nothing very small across the media sort
of you know
news that fear and people are interested
in it but I I wouldn't say that people
are necessarily more fearful when they
wear in previous time right ok so
what your vision they know did I mean
first I guess do you have a vision like
you know you you you're a man who has
obviously been on the planet long enough
to see it three different tiers of your
own life as well and different ages and
I know as i get older like you
it certainly of order and you look at
everything including yourself within it
what is your vision of humanity what do
you feel is going to happen like in your
eyes do you see this improvement
happening meaning like yeah I think
we're going to do it
we like just going to happen or is it
going to require people like you to
intervene or how is this gonna happen if
we do I people to work and to intervene
and to try to make things better but I
think that's happening all the time I
think there are a lot of social
movements that are trying to intervene
and just going back to what you said
about understanding human behavior
there's a lot of science going on
people trying to understand human
behavior and in some cases connecting
with some of those social movements to
try to help them to understand how to
change human behavior
sorry I think there are there are many
many people trying to do this
it's a very complex question you know
how do we change you and I and I guess
we get some pieces of this puzzle we
learn a little bit more but there are
other things and there are various kinds
of situations that we don't fully
understand how people by so yeah it's
complicated but I i think we are we are
talking about that and we're working at
that and i think it it certainly will
take you know good-hearted people to put
a lot of effort into making the changes
that are needed and the people are
turning up at the vegan festive I'd a
few mostly people i mean some of them
may be there for their own health but
you know many of them will be there
because they do care about the planet
I do care about those people need to
keep building their movement and growing
all right well try to put a proposition
to you then and I want to say whether it
is true or not true or just put it
forward on like your opinion on it
I my proposition is the human brain is
not the issue
it's the nature of the energy that
guides the brain and I can see this
you know from my life observations from
within myself or my work with other
people
I kind of that the the statement the
energy that because you want to tell you
that this to me these two energies that
guide the human brain is the human brain
when it's guarded by fear creates a
conceptual reality and it creates the
world that we say without fear there is
no concept vehicle it creates a
segregated reality where we break things
up into bits and pieces and we learn in
a sequential way and we learned one step
after each step
now you grab it the same brain get the
air out of it and just let it function
in a conscious State
it doesn't work that way just sees life
for what it is
so the person is who they are the world
is what it is and they engage naturally
openly and honestly and caught people in
a pure conscious state behave with
integrity that I need to be taught how
to behave well they just do not standing
the expression of a pure conscience
stated if a different state with here
and it is not a pure conscience that I
think can be J and you know you're
preventing your option here which to me
and not really differently and I think
people have varying levels of here at
different moments and some and am I
certainly take over completely and may
produce off of the terrible consequences
and other times people may have some
fears you know I'm somebody close to me
get cancer I feel the fear that or maybe
i will as well but that doesn't mean
that I'm not backing of the fully
conscious human being
ok
all right i mean obviously we see that
quite differently so
help you probably want to do you like to
see this is a bit extreme as well I i'm
proposing that if there was one topic we
could all look at that would make the
change
I mean animal cruelty is a good one that
exposes so much about human behavior but
I think there's a more powerful topic
and I think it's one of the most avoided
ones in human conversation and that is
individual insecurities and every human
beings walking around with them and it's
limiting their life is limiting their
ability to act in the truth and i
believe it's human insecurities that's
causing most of the problems on the
planet
so we've got you know so many billions
of human beings or walking around in an
insecure state sharing and security but
making out that they're not and hiding
their deepest fears and what's really
driving their life
so by the time we get to the outcome of
their behavior we're seeing a very
edited small version of it because
they're not really giving up the truth
of how they think and feel and to me
we could actually all get honest and
share these insecurities and get past
that i think would see the nature of
communication and how we would share our
intelligence wood river rise
dramatically and the way we would deal
with this global crisis would rise
dramatically because the enormity of
what we're facing is so much bigger than
the tiny level of conversation we're
currently having the conversation is
currently small because everyone is not
admitting their fears and insecurities
and he made that very obvious that
that's what's going on in your father of
Alfred album
no I don't think we found a little bit
you're familiar with
I love you about the inferiority complex
i have no I'm not
and again out of that happens that my
grandfather was a probably got a pile of
brush is Indian or in the nineteen
twenties and what you think and round
like a duck and but you don't move
basically my view about what you're
saying is you know as we might be a bad
. as well that that people come up with
this you know this is the answer to
everything and it's you know i repressed
sexuality
it's inferiority complexes that
insecurity and I don't think that there
is one answer like that i think that
it's more complicated and there are many
things
certainly when people are insecure
they're like you to very badly and
and it's been there for a very good
thing if we can increase the sense of
security
but i don't think that that the only
thing you know I think about a whole lot
of different things
I'm not saying it's the only thing no I
don't want to give the wrong impression
there
what I'm finding out is if we keep
trying to solve all these big issues
through an insecure state we keep the
storing everything because no one is
completely honest when they're insecure
and what I'm saying is that we could
work on that collectively and all help
each other find more confidence space to
existing and look at that as a priority
their ability to share and communicate
would rise dramatically enhance their
ability to deal with all the issues that
we're whether that be our marriage or a
global crisis it doesn't really matter
we're going to be able to deal with it
in a stronger clear away and I didn't
realize all of variability
how do we do that in army and this now
remind me a little bit of that people
who say looking
it's no use trying to get animals at a
factory found the real problem is the
economic system as long as you have free
enterprise and commercial profit of
property then people will exploit
animals so the solution is we need a
communist revolution that does away with
private property
you know now maybe that would help that
i have no idea how you achieve it and
maybe of course as historically has
happened it would actually not lead to
the results you want it all and and no
with the case of saying well we have to
deal with people's insecurities
I'm not sure how we do that and I would
be very reluctant to say let's drop our
efforts to get hands out of very small
cages for example or get people doesn't
stop eating factory farm products and
instead focus on their insecurities
because you know i don't know it might
it might be another 50 years before we
understand how do you get people to
overcome their insecurities and for that
50 is these animals will continue to
suffer or as I see progress being made a
place in western nations anyway in terms
of
getting people to be more aware about
animal suffering and getting them to
boycott product to come for our animal
to suffer and getting the industry to
reform itself to some extent
sure look you know and i'm not
suggesting for one second we don't keep
doing what we're doing in all the people
on the ground that are working hard to
make life better for other humans and
animals and and needs to continue
you know we can't just
now what not you know I'm not proposing
that all of a sudden there's a magic
answer i'm proposing we're not talking
about the right things that the
conversation we're having a rough track
and they were not homing in on our way
we need to head
so I'm not saying if we start talking
about human insecurities everything's
going to be fine
I'm saying we were missing an essential
piece of the puzzle in the overall
conversation of life and I'm proposing
that once missed out
it's going to limit their ability to
deal with everything else and I think it
can't be put to the side as if it's some
insignificant thing and it is pushed to
the side because the last thing everyone
anyone wants to talk about is their
insecurities but i just think it's like
such a silly thing to leave out of the
equation and in the main it is in the
bigger picture of conversation that is
sure they may be psychologist that work
on it and devote their lives to other
places and whatever but that's not
getting into mainstream conversation yet
and I think it could be changed and i
think but first we gotta acknowledge
that this needs to happen
I don't think we're acknowledging what
it is about us that's causing all the
issues that that you address and i think
this is one of the key issues and tend
to me it's obvious that it is it doesn't
even need a database from my point of
view it's like that is what it is and i
can see that whether i'm dealing with
individuals in my work
you know when I help them function in
inner space which all ultimately is
removing themselves from the concept of
self and just being themselves their
behavior changes dramatically people
open up to veganism when I take them on
those journeys I don't even have to
mention animal rights they start seeing
things in a different way they start
feeling life in a more honest way they
start behaving with more integrity
so I think it's a fast track way for
changing everything then
and you know the way that we're
currently doing it I tried to change all
the outer
consequences of what we do and I think
that that needs to continue in the
meantime
but I think if we're going to avoid
these topics then I i think we were just
going to stuff it up personally
well i don't know i mean you know I i
don't have the confidence you do that
this is the deadline behind the other
things are objecting to and i also don't
know how we would change it on a the ice
cap but you know i have a try if you
like to try to get it into the certainly
will
perfect added and let's see if anything
happens you know
good luck yeah so what so with your life
then what would what you got anything
new in motion or if you got anything
that you know that there's a keep
growing in terms of your head and in
terms of what you need to put out there
or what conversation needs to be had
like where would you say you're at the
moment in your life
the stage where i think probably you
know the major ideas that I've been
working on over the last 40 to 50 years
I'm unlikely to change now
you know there will be some details I
find some of the views about my
philosophical position
just in the last three or four years
that but there are details then up the
major think so
so I would see what I'm likely to be
doing as a stage of trying to defend the
sorts of things and I'm saying against
objections but also being active in
trying to get more people to act on
these things because that I have
achieved a certain prominence and that
gives me a bit of a megaphone to speak
to people so i think i can i can use
that to help to spread
what I see is desirable movements
obviously the movement to treat animals
better to get people to avoid products
of cruelty is in one of those important
movements trying to stop climate change
is another important movement poverty is
another issue that i worked on for more
than 40 years and that I see progress
being made on and a lot of young people
getting involved in the movement line of
effective altruism to try to be more
effective in trying to help others and
reduce poverty so I i see my our my roll
over the next year's a to a significant
extent not usually between a significant
extent trying to support those movements
and down and you give them whatever -
what I can from the position that I
Rajee and
given you know how long you've been
doing this obviously you were you know
the forefront of many of these topics
people talk about today having been in
that and being aware of that and talking
about and sharing it and giving talks
and writing books and being a you know
professor and all the stuff that you do
how are you like what is this done to
you as an individual like is as a
representative of the human race
have you grown as a man by stepping into
this journey
do you think it's affected your life
personally dramatically and and and the
head like how does that sit with you
know I'm a city could completely
transformed my life who knows what I
would be doing it by doing that you know
if i go back to my days when i went to
university I wasn't also what are we
going to do it may be a lawyer or maybe
I i really don't know but yeah I think
my life is completely different and much
better because i find that immensely
rewarding and fulfilling to know that
i'm working in accordance with the
values that I consider to be right to
have harmony between your values and
your actions not currently , do not have
to be assigned to have complete harmony
and I'm certainly not a thing but a
reasonable degree of how many and to
identify with the tradition of people
through the ages to try to do good try
to make the world a better place
I find that a very satisfactory and I
think you know going back to what you
were talking about about anxiety and
insecurity and so I think looking about
the larger cause
probably helps with that as well and i
mean i know many people who confirms are
much more pity about renovating their
home or how are they doing compared to
their neighbors of chemicals what sort
of why should they be drinking with
other stuff so i think both sort of
confirms just fade away once you really
see what what is important what matters
in the world
yeah
ok so
so I guess overall ended you can fit you
you feel content content with your life
and your journey in and what you've done
I think I've been extremely fortunate in
yeah and then getting into an area that
was a significant an area which not a
lot of work has been done at the time
that I got into a fight or practical
epic
I work had been done going back
throughout history but Dad
strangely they had been a period of
Western philosophy english language
philosophy where people hadn't talked
about these issues they haven't talked
about the ethics of how we are treated
animals they hadn't even talked much
about the ethics of what are the
obligations of comfortably off people in
a foreign countries to people in extreme
poverty elsewhere in the world started
able to write some things that got
widely read and helped to establish my
position and got me a professorship that
good universities in that again gave me
this larger platform to be from John and
I've our founder fulfilling thing to do
done I'm pretty content with the way my
life is gone and not content with the
way the world have taken up these ideas
as yet but as i said i'm somewhat
optimistic that we're heading in the
right direction
does that bother you emotionally it all
i gotta feeling level within yourself
with the a like i can divide compare
where you see the world to be and what
it could be
this is what it is is quite divergent
like obviously you're somewhat ahead of
the curve in an overall sense you take
out a little specific judgments which
people like to say or you don't do this
Peter and you don't do that if I just
look overall as a man on this planet
you're far more progressive then most
men that I would ever come across
obviously in your thinking
so
but within within that within that
within yourself is that is that a sense
of personal strengths that can hold you
together or does that compared to where
the world that do you ever lose sleep
over it is it's going to get upset when
you see the cruelty in the suffering or
if you just learn to come to terms with
it and just deal with it you know in a
calm way i do get up there
yeah i did get upset I guess I have
developed over the years a fairly thick
skin through reading about a lot of
things to work to do in writing a
liberation to immerse myself in the
horrible things that have been done to
animals in laboratories in fact we found
a night
I did develop a thick skin but but i
still do get upset by this and you know
yes my life would go better still if I
knew that somehow you know that this is
all going to stop tomorrow
I've also become a realized that i was
saying earlier in our discussion about
the size of the change that's needed and
the length of time it's likely the tank
and I feel like I'm contributing to
managing things a little bit further in
the right direction
that's that's something i can become
temple
absolutely all right
all right well that's a beautiful finish
thank you very much I appreciate that
allow me to cover you know many
different angles and topics and all that
kind of stuff so I do appreciate your
time Peter and I admire your work and I
think you know I agree we've all got to
put out there what we feel and and keep
it moving otherwise you know the species
no one will know people like you don't
put it out there so
