Bryan Stevenson: For me, the challenge that we face is a narrative battle. You see, I don't think
we've actually done very effective
narrative work in this country. We had a
genocide in America and when white
settlers came to this continent they
killed millions of native people through
famine, and war, and disease, and we forced
those people from the lands. We kept
their names, we name streets and
buildings and counties and things after
them, but we forced them off and because
of a narrative shift we didn't say
that's a genocide, we said those people
are savages, and that narrative failure
to own up and acknowledge their humanity
allowed us to think that we hadn't done
anything immoral, but we did. And, then we
had the slavery in the Civil War and the
North won the Civil War, but the South
won the narrative war. They were able to
persuade the United States Supreme Court
that, that racial equality thing wasn't
necessary and they actually reclaimed that
racial hierarchy, that ideology of white
supremacy and we allowed that to happen
for a hundred years. Then, we had horrific
terrorism and violence and we ended the
kind of mass lynchings with impunity, but
those who have perpetrated that
terrorism and violence won the narrative
war, they were never held accountable. And,
then we got into the civil rights era
where there was this massive incredible
movement led by extraordinary people
like Dr. King and Rosa Parks and we won
passage of the Voting Rights Act we won
passage of the Civil Rights Act, but we
lost the narrative war. The people that
were holding the signs that said
segregation forever or  segregation or war
were never forced to put down those
signs. They didn't wave them around
anymore but they kept adhering to that
value, and now we're living at a time
where that narrative that thriving
narrative of racial difference, that
ideology of white preference has
exhibited itself, has manifested itself and
now we're dealing with the consequences
of that. And, we won an election in 2008
but we lost the narrative battle.
We actually allowed that president to be
demonized and victimized and marginalized
because he's black, not because of
anything he said or anything he did and
our comfort with that kind of
demonization is I think at the heart of
the challenge that we face. And so, I want
us to be engaged in legal battles in
court, I want us to be thinking
strategically, politically
about how we reclaim federal government
and make local government work for us,
but we've got to start fighting a
narrative battle. We've got to create a
country and a culture where you are not
allowed to say I'm going to ban people
because they're Muslims and- and win with that. You're not allowed to ban people
There will always be people who try to
exploit the fear and anger that gives
rise to these kinds of narratives of
racial difference and I think we haven't
done a very good job. Too many of us have kind of taken advantage of the legal
battles while leaving behind the
narrative battle and that for me is the
great challenge that we face.
Sherrilyn Lfill: Can I- can I ask
a question I mean because this is I- I
think you could not be more on point and
what I think worries me is how
relentless the narrative battle has to
be, right? Because, I mean the only place
where I would disagree with you is I
think actually out of the civil rights
movement, we won the narrative battle, ish, and by that I mean two things
I mean one there were a lot of
compromises on the narrative so you
can compromise the narrative right? You
know it's all about you, yet be peaceful
and love and content of the character
you know and all that I have a dream
right, that you know so that's still
there so it got distorted right so
that's number one. Number two there's at
you- you never really win the narrative
you have to keep it up, and I can
remember when I first came to the Legal
Defense Fund in 1988, Julius Chambers was the director counsel and I was
litigating voting rights cases and I was
getting ready to file a case in Oklahoma
and had my little press release and I
remember Julius saying you know, noble
brilliant civil rights lawyer who I just
you know revered, we do our talking in
the courtroom. You know, which it's kind of a
nice thing to say but actually that was
precisely the moment when the Heritage
Foundation and American Enterprise
Institute would be- they were forming
their centers you know? No seriously, and
they were creating a narrative and a story
and I can remember when I started
teaching, when I started teaching
constitutional law you know, I - you had
get your case books and so forth and, you
know I-  back in the 80s to use the words
reverse discrimination to describe
affirmative action was like a slur you
couldn't call affirmative action reverse discrimination, by the
time I was in my seventh year of
teaching the Rotunda casebook, some of
you may use it, the whole section on
affirmative action is called reverse
discrimination right? So they had- they
had taken over the language because we
had intended to it is what I was trying
to get to is that it was a way in which
we won some of the narrative, and then as you say we kind of left it alone and- and
so you have to kind of keep at it if- 
there's no like permanent win you know
Bryan Stevenson: I- I think if you don't hold people
accountable for the narrative
assaults that they make, then
you're never going to prevail because
the South never voted for the Voting
Rights Act, they never voted for the
Civil Rights Act, they regroup started
organizing and precisely the way you are
describing, and then 48 years later they
won a Supreme Court case Shelby County
because their narrative had persuaded
the united states supreme court that we
don't need a Voting Rights Act anymore
