(Lynn Braband) So, how about the
Cockroach / Bed bug group?
(Jody Gangloff-Kaufmann.) Hey Matt. Why don't we tag team this one?
(Matt Frye) Yeah of course. (Jody) We both took
took notes. I'm not sure we got to the
point of what, where do we go from here,
but
there's some really interesting
revelations that came out in our
session.
So, um,
One of the first points that came out
in our session
was the problematic wheelchair.
So when you talk about community-based
pests, you know, issues... wheelchairs are a
vehicle.
They're a bus. They're a transportation
for both cockroaches and bed bugs into
schools and it's
one of those difficult things to treat. I
dealt with a wheelchair company,
and they didn't treat... they were
repairing them, but they were not
treating them for pests because they
didn't know how and it wasn't their
problem. And
they were also getting bed bugs in their
office so... I don't know why...
But of course anything a child brings in
backpacks,
you know... But one of the school
facilities staff here said
that bed bug dogs sniffing backpacks was
a very effective tool for them to
isolate and mitigate bed bugs.
So that they had that happen a few times
a year,
and it helped reduce the number of bed
bug incidents in school.
We talked about inspecting incoming
goods which is an
obvious thing for cockroaches, because
not only can cockroaches like
Germans come in from home, but they are
much more likely to come in on dry goods
from warehouses and from suppliers.
So you know it's always been a universal
recommendation to
have the workers inspect boxes before
they're brought into the school,
and to have a monitoring program
wherever those boxes are dropped off
especially.
Now do you have anything to answer--
sorry--to add?  (Matt) Sure. So
in terms of our
interventions you know--one of the things
that we were talking about--
is the challenge of collaboration and
we did identify some collaborators and
partners that would be
ideal for interventions and sort of
breaking that
transition of moving pests from the home
to the school...
or from school to the home. And it seems
like
that ... BOCES Health and Safety
Officers
are a good group that can
sort of be a third party as inspectors
of
the kitchens in a school, and and other
parts of the building and
and have more leverage than
others in that position. So they may be
able to work
within the system to get
collaboration with the teachers and the
principal and others
on staff. So I think we
were aware that health and safety
officers are good
contact for us, but I think knowing that
there's a little more leverage there
is also really important.
(Jody) And just to sort of combine some ideas
that are new,
you know, some um new phenomena, I guess,
that happened as a result of Covid...
is that we're going to have more food in
the classroom and not just from,
you know, students but also teachers, you
know. More food in the classroom.
They're going to be spending probably
more time in their classrooms
and, you know. So when asked, 
'well does that free up the cafeterias?' ...
In many cases
the there may be daycare in those
cafeterias, so it doesn't free up the
cleaning of cafeterias. It makes
for extra work. So
because  COVID requires the cleaning of
classrooms and everything else
much more deeply, we may be able to get
better control of pests even though
there is food in the classroom.
But it's going to require probably just
a lot more work.
And then our friend, Tom Jordan, mentioned
that
he's never seen so many UBER EATS
deliveries happening to high schools...
that not only are the kids eating in the
classroom, but the food is coming from
delis
and, uh you know, local restaurants where
you could have pest transfer. But you've
also...you've also got food waste in every
single classroom including the band room
and the gym and all that.
So it provides much more of a challenge.
I think if I were to say anything about
where we should go,
I think all of these add up to...we could
really use some um
integrated.. so like the IPM Coordinator
training. I've said it for years, but I
think that
right now is a great time to look at
doing some IPM Coordinator training
to include BOCES Health and Safety
Officers,
but as well as designating someone in a
school
district or in a building to be that IPM
Coordinator... and to, you know, get them all
up to speed. I think now is the time
that we could really do that. I'll stop
there.
(Matt F) The one thing that I'll add to that
is, sort of the,
the other side of it. So outside of the
school, 
we heard that notifying the p- ...like when
when there's a louce or a lice
infestation or issue,
that we...schools have a good system in
place of notifying parents but
maybe we can modify that as well as for
other pests
to be less alarmist and more sort of...
'here's some action items that you can
take at
home to prevent your child from bringing
home pests as well as prevent your child
from bringing pests into schools'. So I
think we often
miss that opportunity to really
communicate effectively,
and, you know, not freak out parents so
that they
don't know what to do but give them very
specific action items to
reduce the spread of these pests. And
I think,
considering the community is the part
that we've often been
missing, we always think about what
can be done in the school but we need to
think about
what we can do in the community as well.
(Lynn B) Do
local health departments...concerning um
input in the schools from parents,
teachers, homes, of cockroaches and bed
bugs?
Do they have a role or are there legal
limit...
limitations there?
(Jody) I think in many cases the only
 official inspection of food service,
including school kitchens, comes from
the Health Department sanitarians,
but because there's so few of them these
days, even in well-funded departments,
I think it's very rare that any
particular place gets inspected for,
you know, for food sanitation. The
official
rules and regulations that govern.
(Lynn) Yeah,
I guess I'm thinking more of a social
work approach,
with, um, say a family
of students that has a persistent bedbug
problem.
things like that. (Susannah Reese) I know that in my
county they have--
the health department--has a Healthy
Homes grant
and they can do some intervention when
they get a referral and somebody has
bedbugs in the in the school they get a
referral and
that intervention consists of... well it
used to consist of actually
mailing or going to that person's
house. I don't think they do that anymore...
with bed bug interceptor traps and a um
mattress encasement and information. So
I think it's... it's a...probably it depends
if your
health department is set up to do some
of those things. (Lynn)
And if it's soft money funded, that, of
course, is an issue.
(Matt) Yeah I would think too... (Joellen) So, no go ahead Matt. (Matt) Nope
go ahead.
(Joellen) I was going to say here in the Capitol
district, we have a healthy neighborhoods
program
which might be very similar to healthy
homes and I've been really working with
them to have more
pest management information included in
that. They had a situation
where a family was consistently bringing
in bed bugs and
to the point that they were thinking
about not allowing the kids to come to
the school... which was illegal.
So they were looking for some
significant help
and they ended up getting help from
Catholic Charities
that helped to pay to have the house
treated for bed bugs to deal with the
issue.
Is that going to be able to be happening
a lot? Because it's an expensive
proposition from a non-profit?
I don't know, but,  but there are some
options out there.
But pretty unique.
(Matt) That brings up actually the point that I
wanted to ask...is
about motivation to address pest
issues. So...
like we're, we're, approaching this from
the perspective that the parents want to
mitigate the pest problem but there may
be situations where
the parents don't see it as a problem
and don't really care that their kid is
bringing
cockroaches to school. So how do we get
over the
sort of mental barrier of 'this is a pest
problem and
we need you to manage this', without
providing the treatment and the payment
for that treatment. So I think
that's, that's, part of the messaging is
why it's important
to sort of be a participant in that step.
(Jody) That's where social workers can come in
handy if you have access to it.
The social work... (Lynn) So, we need to expand our
collaborations?
(Jody) Yes.
(Joellen)  Lynn, we actually ran into that issue
with districts that we had visited
where there was a family that was
bringing in numerous type of pests and
they did not care. And I'm trying to
remember and failing to...
what the school ended up doing regarding
that.
(Susannah) I think you're never going to get
compliance from everyone right? So
having that process at the school itself
is really vital so
we know this kid has bed bugs... so that
kid goes to the nurse's office,
gets their change of clothes, gets a 
different backpack.
You know they have the bins or whatnot,
but so important that they have a policy.
(Lynn) So, Susannah you work, you know, in your
program with,
with home-based programs and
so I wonder, you know... Considering with
Matt's concern...
You know, in terms of most
homes, with most families,
if there were practical ways of
assistance... if they really wouldn't
really
go for it? Might be more of an
embarrassment but...
Um I wonder if it's really just a--
and just my gut feeling--a minority of
homes
that
don't care about infestations in their
homes compared to those that are just
frustrated or don't know what to do.
(Susannah) Yeah. Overall yeah,  I would agree.
There is a minority that aren't going to
do anything. Um, a lot of intergenerational homes though
too? The...
if a kid is living with grandparents
and the grandparents don't even
realize they have bed bugs? So um you
know it's so complicated. There's so many
layers
where we we can't control what happens
at home.
We can't--oh--Bobby Corrigan always says 'we
can't control the
rodent population, but we can keep them
out of our buildings'.
So I think it's a good argument to make:
we can't control what goes on outside
the buildings but we can
control what goes on inside buildings. (Jacqueline) So
I don't know if this is appropriate, but
um as a company, we've... in extreme
circumstances we've donated our services
to go to somebody's house and treat and
maybe there could be
a concerted effort with other companies
to to do the same.
(Jody) For a while, Cooper Pest Control
organized a
um holiday time period, you know, giveaway.
So each company that would um
participate would donate pro bono work
to the program to someone who needed it.
And it was,
it was regional, I think, not nationwide,
but regional, not just in New Jersey--
they're based in new jersey--and um I
don't know if they still do.
A really good thing because there's so
many folks out there who have no access
to pest control
and and don't have the money for it. Um
and so they were specifically treating--
it was bedbugs--
um, it was their Bedbug University.
It was that group that was, uh, you know
specifically treating bed bugs.
(Lynn) Does the New York State Pest Management
Association have a
such a encouragement or organization of
such pro bono
activities, as Jacqueline referred to? (Jody) I
don't think they do.
Harriet was supposed to be on here today. (Lynn) Seems like there'd be a great public
outreach.
(Jody) Yeah yeah. (Dina C) Um,
one quick question. I'm part of the
Regional One Health which
does not include New York but includes
uh, New Jersey,  Pennsylvania, Maryland
and Delaware. And we're actually putting
together a program to develop, um,
teaching for health workers and, and what
I'm hearing about school
seems to be kind of similar.  When you go
to the doctor, you're probably going to
be also carrying
some of the pests that are... So I'm
curious. So we're actually trying to
create a curriculum where we're teaching
directly the medical doctors about
entomology and
and all these other one health issues.
Does this, is there any kind of
interaction between this-- the school IPM
and sort of medical facilities?
(Lynn) I think that's a great question you know.
The one health movement-- I don't know how
well-known it is outside academia. And on
a national scale, but
it's it gets people out of their
silos because
technology and nature doesn't care about
our silos.
(Jody) Well, Dina. What about targeting um school
nurses
as part of the medical community?  (Dina) yes
actually--that, well we had nurses but
now you've got me going on school nurses.
That's a good point.  (Jody) They are organized.
They have organizations county-wide, so
easier to target than just one at a time.
(Dina) Yeah, we're putting together a proposal
to try and obtain funding
for um, to try to set this up across New
Jersey as a sort of a
test. But that's a good...great... Thank you.
School nurses. Thank you very
very much
(Lynn) A last comment or two from the first
group before we um
switch to the priorities group?
Okay, Joellen. Who's your reporter? (Joellen) So I
volunteered Mary Centrella
from PMEP, who graciously accepted.
(Mary) Um, yes, and if you want to jump in
anytime Joellen, let me know because
you're the one that took notes too. So,
um, we had a really great group. We had
four people from New York State IPM.
We had a huge group of different people:
someone from BOCES. We had
a lot of people... groundskeepers, 
you know, technicians for schools. We had
an entomologist.
We had someone from the EPA who does
instructions at schools,
um, a compliance assistant specialist
with West Virginia Department of
Agriculture.
So it was a neat discussion. Um,
so our, we were focused on New York State
school  IPM priorities, um,
and the first thing we asked the group
was what are the foremost school pest
issues? The top three priorities were
rodents, stinging insects,
and bed bugs.
And we talked a little bit about how
stinging insects get into schools, how
rodents get into schools,
and then we talked about
creating a list of school pest issues
statewide and prioritizing outreach
needs.
So some of the top priorities for
school IPM was help with scouting and
monitoring pests.
And education was the main thing
that came up a lot. So education for
teachers, education about
pesticides, and pest control education of
the faculty and the community as well...
which I think was kind of touched on the
bed bug
talk as well. And there was discussion
about
maybe having pest control classes or
more information on pest control.
Um, we talked a little about how teachers
are--
maybe they're busy, you know, maybe they
don't know the information very well.
Maybe they're resistant to change.
But how a lot of pest control
work is kind of...there's pushback from
the teachers
um or they don't understand why it's
being done.
So we talked a little about maybe, you
know, contacting teachers
that are part of the union because that
can kind of help all other teachers get
that information.
And we talked about, you know, how to
increase education to teachers.
Maybe doing some more training.
We talked about risk benefit analysis of
pest control versus
not doing anything, and, um,
how to kind of get that point across. And
then,
uh, Lynn Gregory said she did a
presentation with school administrators
and
nurses and maintenance staff,
so she works with the EPA. See, um, she
suggested that maybe
in-service presentations would be good
for the teachers.
It seems like we get the ear of admin
but not necessarily
the teachers themselves and the staff. So
that was an issue we brought up,
um, and we talked a little bit at the end
about the health and safety IPM
coordinators.
Um, so we just talked about meeting more
representatives on that and getting more
involved
in that health and safety coordinator... Am
I saying that right?
I don't know exactly what the title is.
(Joellen) health and safety committee. (Mary) Thank you yes. Committees. um
So was there anything I missed there,
Joellen?
(Joellen) I think you really nailed it. Um, so
typically our audiences have been
grounds people and, um.
pest control people within the schools
themselves and we've reached--
been reaching them--through BOCES or
through the New York State Turfgrass
Association.
So we were looking for recommendations.
How do we expand that list out to be
able to reach
the teachers? Um and,
and Lynn said that she has been talking
to the administrators. I don't think we
really had a
great, uh, success
in reaching that group ourselves so
we're, we're
looking for feedback. We're looking for
help in terms of how to expand our reach
so that we can get
you guys the help that you need to be
able to do your jobs better.
And, we'll be able to take those needs...
say that this is what we heard
from our stakeholders, and be able to
reach out to other groups
and say, 'hey, this is what was told was
needed. What can you do to help?'
(Kevin Templin) One thing to look at would be ... schools
tend to have superintendent conference
days just before
or like a common days just before they
open up for the
the school year. Um, you might want to
look at getting into... doing a
presentation at those.
Because then you have the entire staff
of each district
right there as a captive audience.
(Joellen) So for those of you that work in schools,
one of the issues that I've been seeing
over the past few years
is those health and safety committees or
the superintendent days
used to look at a greater variety of
topics
but it seems that so much of the focus
has been on
active shooter drills and security
issues.
Um,  so for those of you that are in the
schools
are you seeing that that's still the
primary focus? Or is that starting to
ease up a little bit providing or space
for us to get in?
What do you think? If you have any
comments just unmute yourself.
(Kevin T) I'd say that's still the the primary
um,
but you can always build... you can
always build
the IPM as a form of safety. I mean when
you're dealing with
bed bugs, cockroaches, mice, you know,and
all the
the the just horrific things they all
carry with them,
that that is another level of safety. And
safety is really the the buzzword right
now. And that would be,
that would be the way I think to get
in there. Um,
because let's face it, you're going to be,
you're much more likely to
encounter a mouse than an active shooter.
(Andrew Krul) What we've found that we've done...our
district has
mandatory day, superintendents
conference day,
before school starts and
basically it's... all staff is there, we do
our Right-to-know,
our bloodborne pathogens...
DASA training...so adding an IPM module
into that
would probably be a good idea. And then
we could get that covered
then and hopefully some of it would
stick.
(Kevin T) The other one is to do it at the end of
the year. Most
schools have their Haz-Com day, um, where
you do all of your hazardous
communication stuff in one day and that
would fit right in.
And we've had our safety coordinators
out
of our local BOCES... they, they have
done
presentations on various things... and
I'm sure that's one.
In fact last year, Joellen. And I think you--
that was you--were at our school last
year for that.
(Joellen) Saratoga right? (Kevin) Right yeah when you did the the tick
drags and and all.
(Joellen) That was right after the active shooter
guy. (Kevin) Yep.
(Lynn) So one... one thing in the two surveys--
statewide surveys--which I reported on
last week,
um, we asked the question 'how many school
districts have
pest management advisory committees?' and
uh
most don't. You know. As Joellen kind of
indicated or alluded to, the health inspector-
that could be a function of the health
and safety committee but it's often not.
Um... I know
at least one IPM coordinator for those
of you who knew
Kevin Trotta-- he was a cor--IPM coordinator for his school district,
and um he
formed his own committee with
representatives from several
stakeholders within his school
and essentially provided, you know...
everything didn't depend upon the IPM
coordinator himself.
(Jody) I would say um Fred Koebel has done the
same thing, (Lynn) Okay.
(Joellen) So is that a health and safety committee
of one, or did he
bring--  (Lynn) Oh no,  he ....  got together you
know, a
recruited teacher. He was with facilities
staff
member, and uh, a school nurse.
..Some other key people that he...
(Joellen) It does seem like a really good
opportunity that we heard from a number
of people was,
you know, teachers are just not on board
with this. So health and safety
committees can help
to get that message out. Yeah, they are
regulated,
but it seems that most schools
don't have them even though they're
supposed to.
Lynne Gregory. Joellen,  this is Lynne. Can you hear me?
(Joellen) I can.
(Lynne G) Okay, I'm headquartered in New Jersey
and um, in New Jersey, we have an IPM
law.  School law. Which you folks don't in
New York
per se, okay? Part of that.
uh, program involves a
yearly educational program
that's put out by some of the people in,
at Rutgers,
and anyone can attend.
So about 10 times
during the school year, there are
programs
throughout New Jersey in different areas
that can be attended by administration,
by custodians,
um, anyone who wants to come basically.
It's free
and it lasts for about four or five
hours,
um on ... once a month
basically. And there is a discussion--
a three-prong discussion. One is
about the law itself for new people,
uh new hires, who aren't familiar
with the law. A  section on
IPM 
itself... the principles of IPM.
And that is done by a couple of
pest control companies who are heavily
involved in dealing with schools
and they have a powerpoint presentation
to
to show various situations in the
schools.
And then the third part is about turf
and
athletic grounds and that's done by
a professor at Rutgers.
And so that gives ... everyone sort of a
general idea
of what is involved in the New Jersey
IPM
program for all the schools. And,
um, so oftentimes,
when you're talking about Health and
Safety Directors... we require an IPM committee
that's composed of the school nurse,
 the head custodian, maybe the IPM
coordinator...
someone in the science department who
might be interested in,
uh, pests or insects like the biology
teacher--
whoever in the school would be
interested in
IPM itself--and then a few others,
probably.
Um, and they are comprised.. the committee
for each
school and
then...they would be dealing with their
physical footprint you know? During
the year... and have
monthly meetings and so forth. So, very
easily.
that could translate into some sort of a
program at that particular school where
parents are invited, teachers are invited,
and you can go over issues that you
might have or want to share
with the community groups.
So Lynne brought out a good point... So in New
York State, and I know Joellen...
um, one of the, one of the ground rules
for her breakout group on priorities was
that
as a Extension program, we couldn't talk
about regulations.
But I'm a consultant now, so I will.
Uh, well New York State does not have a
School IPM law like some states do,
but I think, Lynne, as you and I have
discussed in the,
in the past, just because a state has a
law does not
necessarily mean that IPM in schools is
improved.
It seems like the state must be willing
to put money behind
educational efforts like Texas does
uh for  IPM Coordinator meetings, etcetera,
and things like that.
(Lynne G) Actually Lynn, I have found that the IPM
programs
at the schools in New York that I
visited are very
very good programs. Many much better than
Jersey. (Lynn B) Yeah you've told me that before. I 
was hesitant, I didn't know if you'd want
to share that publicly here, but.  (Joellen)
And I will say that we have done
something very similar to that--usually
through
BOCES--um which is where
I always called it the Lynn and Joellen
show. And would also have the
regional DEC pesticide
person come in to talk about the laws.
So if that is something that you have
not seen and you are interested in
having that
in your region, please let your BOCES
people know so that they can work with
us to
put something together. So that was
usually three or four hours. We would
cover different topics and then we would
do
a mock inspection at whatever location
we were.
(Lynn B) So there's a couple comments in the chat
box.
Jessica says 'I don't think our school's
doing the Right to Know meeting this
year because of COVID, so maybe next year
can be incorporated.'
And Brian says 'I find the problem tends
to be teachers know things are dirty but
feel
it's not their job-- it's the custodians.
(Joellen) Yes, you know that 'whose job is it anyway?' is
often problematic.
(Mary C). Yeah well and speaking
um as someone whose partner is a teacher,
you know teachers are really busy
I think. I mean, I think everyone's job
has become that way you know? It seems
like
the task load is going way up. There's a
lot expected of them.
I mean my partner barely has time to go
to the bathroom throughout the day you
know? so I can see where you get this
pushback from teachers.
Maybe they do see that it's dirty but
they just don't have the time to work on
it and i think
if we could work with the school
districts to make it a priority then
maybe that would...
You know? I think both talking to
teachers but also getting some kind of
top-down involvement would help
because otherwise... yeah, how can they
prioritize that when they've got so many
other things?
(Lynn B) So decades ago. there was a
project. It was the EPA funded, and it was
on
uh, to a school district in the suburb of
Buffalo
on ...saving energy by
cutting unnecessary lighting and
electricity use--lights on or off--
and facilities staff successfully worked
with their teachers to kind of recruit
and interact with students. And he said
you know... students at least for a period,
uh, were always turning off lights that
didn't have to be on, you know?
And, and they saw a...
um they had a distinct savings
in their their energy bill. And i've
often wondered how that might be
translated
into a, you know,  a collaboration with
the facility staff of a school,
the teachers of the school, and the
students in terms of classroom
sanitation.
(Lynne G) Lynn, this is Lynne Gregory again and I
think that
you really need to um
work on educating this...the students. 'Cause,
if you have two eyes as a facility
coordinator,
or a custodian, how many students are
there,
and how many eyes are there to actually
look around and find
uh problems around the school.
I did, um, an air quality study
um in an elementary school in New Jersey
and they came up with all kinds of
situations
that they then presented to the
principal... who wasn't really too happy
that we had done that, but um
it showed them and ...
that they are very observant. If they see
a water leak
in the bathroom they put it down.
So the kids can do this too, and it's a
good learning experience
probably in a biology class or some a
science class...
to get the kids involved because
everyone needs to be part of IPM in a
school.
It's not just a Custodial job that Brian
was saying here in that one question,
it's a perception. But really everybody
needs to participate.
thank you. (Lynn B) Those uh custodians that have
a good rapport with their teachers and
students...
they are gems. And um
a few years ago--several in our program--
we visited two elementary schools in the
Albany school district
and interacted with the head custodian
or
well custodian in those two different
schools. Strikingly different
personalities you know?
One.. we go down the hall and the the
students all the elementary kids almost
hugged the guy.
While the other one all he did was,
when we were with him, was complain about
the students and teachers.
And uh it was pretty easy to predict
which one would be a better partner with
us.
(Joellen) We could also see a difference in in how
the teachers and the students took care
of the school.
(Lynn B) Yes yes.
Okay we've uh
reached the end of our two half-day
conferences,
and I, I think our program has found
very helpful things to
take home for us and hopefully you did
also.
Some reminders: Gemma has posted
the post test
in the chat box, so please take that.
Uh certified applicators? seeking 
certification credits? You need to check
out the similar way you checked in this
morning,
and later, you will be sent a... the link to the evaluation.
Uh of course that provides needed
feedback for us,
and um you also need to fill that out if
you want your FIT
tool. Okay any other
uh people in the IPM program have any
closing words?
Gemma? (Joellen) I really want that FIT tool.  That's
all I  want to say.  (Lynn B.) That's right.
