Anonymous attendee says zinc of 800 and copper
of 692 on the ION test both in low red, was
supplementing 15 mg zinc 1 mg
copper at the time of testing, thoughts on
what to increase the supplement level to in
order to keep the correct ratio.I don't recommend
looking at the zinc-to-copper ratio.
I don't-- I know that there are studies correlating
health endpoints with the zinc-to-copper ratio,
but I do not believe that it is a causal factor
in disease.
I believe the reason that the zinc-to-copper
ratios are often associated with disease is
because inflammation raises plasma copper
and lowers plasma zinc based on taking zinc
up in the cells and mobilizing stored copper
out of the liver.
And I think you just want zinc and copper,
not the ratios, I think you want them at the
right levels.
And zinc at 800 if I, you know those units
are different than what I'm used to I believe
that corresponds to 80 on a typical test at
80 you're not really deficient, but you are
probably better off if you increase your zinc
up by 10 or 20 percent and your copper is,
if I remember right, that's at the bottom
of the range and I
really think copper you want to be in the
middle of the range.
I don't think the bottom of the range for
copper or zinc is adequate.
And you know if you're taking that supplement
the simplest thing to do would be to take
it twice a day instead of once a day and also
make sure you're taking it on an empty stomach.
50 milligrams of zinc in most people will
not cause nausea on an empty stomach if you
take it with a full glass of water.
In some people it does, but most people it
doesn't and if you can get away with taking
it on an empty stomach do so, and if you cannot
make sure that you are not taking it anywhere
near phytate, which is found in whole grains,
nuts, seeds, and legumes and is the principal
inhibitor of zinc absorption.
So make sure the conditions are right.
If the conditions are right double the dose,
check it again, triple the dose, check it
again.
Yeah I know the units are ppb Doug, I know
they are, I'm just saying if I remember correctly
the ppb on the ION converts to dividing by
10 for the typical units.
So any way make sure the supplements are taken
correctly; double it or triple it and see
what happens; probably you need more copper
from another source.
When I recommend Jarrow's zinc balance which
has that that exact ratio that you're talking
about,
I just think it's a convenient way to have
the copper in there in a way that makes the
zinc safe without causing a deficiency.
If someone is deficient in copper that's not
an adequate source of copper for two reasons:
1) the copper amount is too low and 2) the
form of copper in all copper supplements,
almost all copper supplements, is wrong.
It's not the-- it's not the oxidation state
that you get in food and there's evidence
from animal experiments that it's lower bioavailability.
So for a copper supplement I would want to
see food first and if you want a supplement
I would supplement with liver capsules.
Because liver capsules, you know so Ancestral,
doesn't have to be that brand, but Ancestral
liver capsules at six a day are going to provide
a very significant amount of copper and it
will be in the food form; same thing if you
were taking Oyster Max oyster capsules, this
is for zinc and copper, the amount is kind
of low in those, but you keep taking them
and you'll get a significant amount of copper
in the right form.
And then for foods, you know, check out the
tiers of copper-rich foods that I recommend;
so liver, cocoa powder, certain mushrooms,
I'll put a link in the show notes to where
I've laid out those copper-rich foods.
