

### The Human Soul

### True Spirituality

### By

### Jesus (AJ Miller) &

### Mary Magdalene (Mary Luck)

Published by

Divine Truth, Australia at Smashwords

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Copyright 2015 Divine Truth

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### This ebook is a transcript of a seminar delivered by Jesus (AJ Miller) and Mary Magdalene (Mary Luck) on 10th June 2012 in Sydney, Australia. In this talk Jesus and Mary describe the attributes and characteristics of true spirituality. They explain the importance of being able to recognise true spirituality, so as to be able to identify spiritual teachings that will be helpful for spiritual growth. This was the second of two seminars on this topic; the first is entitled "The Human Soul - Pseudo Spirituality".

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Table of Contents

### True Spirituality: Part 1

1. Introduction

2. Attributes of true spirituality

2.1. Simple and easy to understand

2.2. Logical and makes sense

2.3. Practical, realistic and based on scientific evidence

2.4. Promotes sincere and genuine change, promotes self-honesty and allows mistakes

2.5. Raw, stands on its own, unedited, messy and grows naturally

2.6. Confronts fear, allows grief, allows all emotion

2.7. Deep emotions, requires change

2.8. Logical and emotional, supports and develops feelings, become more sensitive

2.8.1. An example of becoming sensitive to world issues

2.8.2. An example of eating meat and using animal products

2.8.3. An example of Capitalism

3. The importance of describing the attributes of true spirituality

4. Attributes of true spirituality (continued)

4.1. Emotionally real, honest, with integrity and personal responsibility

4.2. Takes decisions and actions, allow experiments, loving and powerful

4.3. Loving, truthful and irreversible change of the real person, actual feelings and emotions

4.4. All inclusive, all special, accessible to all, non-hierarchical, desiring to give and share

4.5. Unifies, draws all to self

4.6. Appeals the hearts of all, but few are courageous enough to follow

4.7. Confronts addictions, appeals to truth, love and humility, appeals to and desires investigation

4.8. Encourages us to engage free will in a loving way

4.9. Humble, self-reflective, admits to own faults, wanting to give and serve, altruistic

4.9.1. Loving yourself as much as you love others

4.9.2. An example of parenting

4.10. God-reliant, wanting to know God's Laws and Principles, placing and desiring God first

4.10.1. Learning God's Priorities through a relationship with God

4.10.2. Learning about love from God

4.11. Glorifies God, creates awareness of God

4.11.1. Giving glory to God for unique attributes and characteristics in other people

4.11.2. It is possible for man to be perfect, as God is

4.12. Allowing of others' opinions, no condescension or judgement, respect and compassion for others

4.13. Down to earth, authentic, no ritual, forces the soul into reality

4.13.1. Accepting people from all backgrounds

4.13.2. True spirituality forces the soul into reality

4.13.3. God has masculine and feminine qualities

4.14. Gratifies the soul

4.15. Pleasurable, loves all

4.16. Feels better without spirit addictions, creates freedom from external influence

4.16.1. Growing through experiences with spirits

4.17. Free and a gift

4.18. Shares knowledge and serves

4.19. Walks the talk

### True Spirituality: Part 2

5. Summary of the true spirituality discussion

6. God's perspective of homosexuality

6.1. God creates souls with a range of masculinity and femininity

6.2. In our pure state we are only attracted to our soulmate

6.3. Soul incarnation

7. False teachings about Jesus

7.1. The book "Jesus lived in India"

7.2. Christianity and Buddhism

7.3. Taking personal responsibility in engaging a relationship with God

8. Determining spirit influence from a relationship with God

8.1. Forming addictions with spirits due to our impatience

8.2. Historically spirits have mislead many people and religions

8.3. Focusing on addictions

9. How to find our soulmate

9.1. Connecting truthfully with ourselves

9.2. Remove inter-gender barriers

9.3. Reasons why we feel drawn to people who may be our soulmate

9.4. Working through emotional blockages to finding our soulmate

10. Connecting with our emotions

10.1. The benefits of water and water fasting

10.2. Working through blockages to emotion

10.3. Recognising our blockages to feeling emotion

11. Incarnation of the two soul halves

12. Closing Words

Appendix: Seminar Outline

True Spirituality: Part 1

1. Introduction

What we have decided we will do today is, we would like to involve you a little more today in the discussion but we would also like to present a lot of the information we still wanted to present. So Mary is going to guide the discussion to a degree and I am going to be the scribe and write your comments up on the board and we will talk about the subject. The subject today is about; how do we know what true spirituality is? Yesterday we discussed "The Human Soul - Pseudo Spirituality", and the qualities of pseudo spirituality. Today what we want to do is discuss the qualities of true spirituality, and how we can see what real spirituality is, in comparison to pseudo spirituality.

Mary: I'd love to hear from you guys, what you came up with, because you might have already covered our list.

So remember yesterday, we went through a list of different things that are...

Mary: The hallmark of pseudo spirituality.

The hallmark, or the signs or attributes, of pseudo spirituality. So what we would like to do (in this discussion) is contrast that with true spirituality, today.

2. Attributes of true spirituality

Mary: So does anyone have any ideas, what is a hallmark of true spirituality? Alex.

Participant: I just felt basically, very simply it's living in the soul as opposed to a lot of the things that were mentioned yesterday that were living in the mind, and living in the body, spirit body.

Mary: Avoiding the true self was a big thing we talked about a lot.

Participant: I guess to kind of cram it into one little box, it is like living in the soul. It involves a lot of things I guess.

So let's look at what it specifically involves though.

2.1. Simple and easy to understand

Can you remember yesterday we said that one of the hallmarks of pseudo spirituality is that it is very complicated; it has a lot of complex principles. So what do you feel a mark of true spirituality would be? Simplicity, so let's look at that one; it is easy to understand. [00:02:59.04]

Mary: Something we mentioned yesterday was that a child should be able to understand this relationship we can have with God or how to grow spiritually.

So that is fairly obvious isn't it, that one? Perhaps if Mary lists the things that we listed yesterday.

2.2. Logical and makes sense

Mary: So the second hallmark we had of pseudo spirituality was that it is illogical and made little sense.

So what would be real spirituality, true spirituality? Logical – it has got to be logical, and it makes sense all the time. So as you would expect, with true spirituality, you should be able to build on top of it but the foundation still makes sense even after you build on top of it. So as you keep building, keep building, keep building, everything still makes sense; everything's still quite logical and makes sense.

If it is not logical then we have got to start questioning whether it means anything or not, because God gave us a brain and logic so that we could reason on matters. And it makes sense that God wants us to use our brain to a degree to reason out things, to work out whether things are logical or not logical, and so it makes sense that true spirituality would be logical.

And in fact this is one of the things I find that lot of men have with spirituality. A lot of men do not embrace the so called New Age spirituality or find it very attractive and one of the main reasons why is because a lot of New Age spirituality doesn't have much logic, and that is why a lot of men feel a bit turned off to it all. It goes into the mysticism, the angels, and all of those other things that seem to appeal to the emotions, but it doesn't go into much logical scientific sense. That is where it's very important to understand that the Truth will always go into scientific logical sense as well. It is going to be a mixture of both in fact. [00:05:32.02]

2.3. Practical, realistic and based on scientific evidence

Mary: That leads to the third point we had, which was pseudo spirituality is often mystical, mysterious, flaky and irrelevant.

So what is the opposite? Practical.

Mary: We can relate to it in day-to-day living.

So we can relate to it. What else is the opposite of mystical? Realistic and transparent. Any other ideas you could come up with there? Based on scientific evidence; evidence where we can at some point go through some kind of experiment and actually validate that it is true.

So the mark of true spirituality is that it would allow science to actually confront it and science would actually support it in the long run, whereas a good sign of pseudo spirituality is the more scientific investigation you put into it, the more it seems that it is not true. With true spirituality the more scientific investigation you put into it, the more we expose the truth of it, and so we discover more and more truth in that process. And that makes sense too doesn't it? If God is the Great Scientist of the universe, it would make sense that the more you investigate science, the more we would also discover about God and the more we could discover about God's Truths, so there is a logical sense in that. [00:07:24.03]

2.4. Promotes sincere and genuine change, promotes self-honesty and allows mistakes

Mary: Okay, the next one we talked about was that pseudo spirituality is often fake, and promotes and loves the facade.

So what would true spirituality do?

Participant: It would promote genuine change in the soul.

Yes so there has to be some genuine, sincere change, not flaky.

Participant: Allow you to be true to yourself.

Yes but the problem sometimes with being true to yourself is that you can be true to yourself and still be in a lot of error. So it would have to have a combination of things there; you would have to be able to be true to your feelings even if you know your feelings are in error.

Participant: I don't know if it fits here but inclusive, in that you feel that if you do have error, it is almost like you are allowed to have error.

You are allowed to make mistakes, yes. True spirituality allows mistakes.

Mary: And also the absence of judgement is really what you are saying as well. If we look at this, true spirituality is allowing of mistakes. If we are really focused on finding out the Truth, at some point, we are going to make a mistake. We are going to have to experiment with a lot of different things that might be in error before we actually find the truth. So the beauty of true spirituality is that it doesn't force people to believe things without there being evidence and it also allows people to make mistakes before they find out the truth. So they are not having to be forced into accepting something without there being evidence to support that particular thing.

Participant: By being accepting of who you are now as in not being in the facade. So I don't know how to describe that.

Yes so I feel that is a part of being genuine, really, where if you truly accept who you are right now, then you will always go through this process of letting yourself be yourself, even if others around you seem like they want to judge you. And even if within yourself has error, you would still be honest about the error. So could we say it is more a sort of like self-honesty.

2.5. Raw, stands on its own, unedited, messy and grows naturally

Mary: Next on the list was we often see pseudo spirituality as embellished, frilly, polished and marketed.

So what would be the opposite of embellished, marketed and polished?

Participant: It is really raw.

Raw, yes.

Participant: True spirituality, it stands on its own - it doesn't need people to promote it. It is true as it is.

Excellent yes. True spirituality stands on its own. It doesn't need people to embellish it, pretty it up, make it marketable, and make it a nice pretty picture, any of those kinds of things. It presents itself as it truly is every single time.

Mary: So would you call that unedited?

Yes true spirituality is unedited.

Participant: I was going to say, kind of messy. (Laughter) Like that is who you are, just messy. If you are in a mess, you are in a mess.

True spirituality allows a mess, doesn't it? You could say at the end of the day, all of God's systems create order, but we are allowed to be a mess, until we create order. We are not condemned for making messes either in our lives or in our day-to-day activities or anything like that. Although as we progress with true spirituality, we will become more orderly in the way we do things. [00:12:19.02]

Participant: True spirituality is kind of organic in its growth.

So it grows naturally, you could say?

Mary: So would you say once you are engaged in certain principles then true spirituality would continue to grow and develop, is that what you mean by organic?

What do you mean by organic, Matt?

Participant: I was more looking at, for instance, how a certain truth would grow on Earth rather than like as a movement.

Mary: As an individual?

Participant: Not so much as an individual but like within groups and things.

It will naturally expand without you having to force it to grow or even force its will upon another. So with a lot of religions historically the way they were expanded was they went to war with a place and colonised it and forced the religion down their throats and then it became a part of that society, whereas true spirituality would not use force to do that ever. It would never force itself upon another group of people.

2.6. Confronts fear, allows grief, allows all emotion

What's the next on the list?

Mary: The next one is that pseudo spirituality panders to fear and grief.

So what would be the opposite of, pandering to fear and grief?

Participant: Unconditional love.

Let's be more specific about what that does with regard to fear. How does that relate to fear? What would we say true spirituality does with fear?

Participant: Acceptance.

Does it accept fear?

Participant: No.

It drives out fear. So what could we say there - it confronts fear.

Participant: I was going to say true spirituality recognises fear for what it is, not as, an all-encompassing thing, but just as an emotion you need to release.

Exactly, it's just an emotion. Fear is false expectations appearing real and true spirituality recognises that, it doesn't honour fear. So quite often I see people still honouring fear and when I say honouring fear what I mean by that is they give you all the explanations in the world as to why they should still stay in fear, and true spirituality doesn't do that. It never allows excuses for fear so it doesn't allow you to keep on excusing your own fear all the time. True spirituality wants you to confront fear, it wants you to deal with fear and address it emotionally. That's good. Anything else? There was grief in there too wasn't there?

Mary: Yes.

So what does true spirituality do with grief? Any ideas? So true spirituality will allow grief? Grief is the healing emotion. Most people who are involved in some type of psychology would know that once you get to the grieving stage, that's when you get to the healing stage. So true spirituality would allow grief, it would not always be trying to shut down grief, always trying to make the grief go away, it would allow the grief so that the person fully experiences the grief and then they are over it.

Participant: Wouldn't true spirituality allow all emotions? Because some religions don't even allow joy, so there is joy somewhere in there as well, isn't there?

Yes true spirituality will allow all emotions but it will not pander to all emotions. Can you see the difference? So for example it will allow fear, but it will not pander to fear. So it will not respond to fear in a negative way, it will always respond in a loving manner. So true spirituality allows all emotion but it does not always embrace the emotion in the sense of following it to be truthful. True spirituality allows the emotion to be felt without pandering to the emotion, without living in the emotion in many cases.

So, for example if we are living in grief and ten years later we are still grieving and twenty years later we are still grieving, there is something wrong, because true spirituality would heal us; if the grieving process was real, it should heal us. So if we are still grieving, twenty years later there is something wrong, there is some kind of unlovingness in there that has caused us to still grieve, twenty years later. We find that a lot of people feel quite confronted by that, the fact that you should, if you are following through on a truly spiritual path, emotionally get over things. Not intellectually, but emotionally, you will get through things, and develop true spirituality, that is a good mark of true spirituality when you can see somebody is getting through the grief they have, and getting through their shame, and not living in the shame.

I have known many people who have been involved in child abuse when they were young and many of them have gone to therapists and so forth for long periods of time, but they are still not over the grief of their child abuse, and that tells me that something is going wrong with the process because after a while, once we go through the proper process, we will definitely get over it completely. We will be able to even relate the whole event without grieving the events and without feeling any more emotion about the events. So we will remember the events without feeling the emotions. [00:18:41.18]

Participant: So is it really with true spirituality that joy is a natural progression, or a natural result?

I feel joy is going to be a natural result of true spirituality whereas the natural result of pseudo spirituality is often the opposite to that; a lot of difficult emotions, painful experiences, stagnation, a feeling of, "I can't really find any answer," and so a feeling of hopelessness. A lot of those feelings are associated with what I would call pseudo spirituality.

Participant: Just on that one AJ, you are saying that it allows grief, and twenty years of grief is too long, but it doesn't have a time limit on how much grief you need to feel, does it?

No it doesn't have a time limit but the fact is that if we are not changing on a particular emotion, then we are not actually getting to the real emotion so there has got to be something else happening.

Participant: It wouldn't say you've got a week to feel the grief and you're done?

No true spirituality wouldn't do that; true spirituality wouldn't say you have got a week and then it should be over and done with, but it also wouldn't be five years later going, "Why are you still grieving about that?" There's something wrong if you're still grieving about that five years later, something is not coming out of you. There is some belief system that is out of harmony with truth inside of you, if you are still grieving about exactly the same thing five years later, for example. And that applies even if there is a death of some kind, of a friend or a loved one. If we are still grieving it five years later, there has got to be some false belief that is driving the grief that you need to look at.

So for example, a lot of people grieve most of their life after they lose a loved one because they don't believe very strongly in any form of life after death. That is one of the main reasons why we grieve because we feel it is hopeless now, we have lost them forever, and that is a false belief too. False beliefs always create pain and if we are constantly grieving, then often it means that we are locked into a false belief and we do need to address that, we need to have a look at that belief. You see sometimes we prefer to have that belief than a different belief that would actually relieve us from all grief.

Participant: Just on that same point then, would it be right to say that true spirituality then gives us the tools and support that we need to manage these range of emotions?

Yes although I wouldn't say to manage them, it is more to release them. It is sort of like the desire to manage emotion comes very much from the intellect, whereas the desire to release them comes from this soul-based feeling that you can release them and be safe through the process of doing so. So I would say that true spirituality gives you the tools to be safe through the process of release of the emotions rather than sort of managing the emotions.

2.7. Deep emotions, requires change

Mary: Okay, relating to some of what you said yesterday, we said that pseudo spirituality is often shallow and no-one has to really change.

So what would true spirituality be if pseudo spirituality is shallow, not needing to change?

Participant: Go to quite a deep level and would require change.

Okay so it is going to go deep into your heart, deep inside of you emotionally, and true spirituality requires change.

Mary: So AJ would you say, just on this point, that it always causes change when we engage true spirituality? So once I engage this process of grieving with the tools that the other lady talked about, change will always happen even if I am not finished with the grieving. Is that a fair statement?

Yes. The truth is, the grief will change you as you are releasing it. So you will be different, you will know you are different. Somebody can come up to you six months later and go, "Boy, you feel different," and that is a good sign that you've made some change in your life when they can feel there is some positive differences in you and they haven't seen you for six months or twelve months. What happens many times with pseudo spirituality is you can meet the same person ten years later and they seem exactly the same as what they were ten years ago and that is not a very good sign if that is the case.

Okay what's next?

2.8. Logical and emotional, supports and develops feelings, become more sensitive

Mary: Okay next one. We had, and you've touched on this already, that pseudo spirituality is often intellectual and condemning of feelings.

Okay so what would true spirituality be?

Participant: Emotional.

Emotional, but not just emotional because we said earlier that true spirituality is also logical. So true spirituality has to be a combination of logic and emotion. So you could say true spirituality is logic and emotion and if pseudo spirituality condemns feelings, what would true spirituality do with feelings? It would allow them, support them.

Participant: It would just help develop feelings so you can understand you know what is true and what is not true.

Yes and it's a very important word to use - develops feelings. In other words true spirituality is you grow in your capacity to feel.

2.8.1. An example of becoming sensitive to world issues

In our day-to-day to life we get quite numb to things around us - this is one reason why things can happen over the other side of the world where people are dying by the millions and in our Western society we can look at it and go, "Oh yeah that is over there though," and that is an indication that there is some numbness in us about the pain of others. Whereas true spirituality would actually open us enough where we would feel, we would be able to sense that pain in others and want to do something about it inside of ourselves. In other words we become more sensitive to other people's pain and our own pain. So with true spirituality we become more sensitive. [00:25:40.00]

Mary: And on that point AJ, this is not on our list but it seems to me that true spirituality would inspire change in us in all spheres of our life, not just internal change but it would impact on how we would live our life and the way we would relate to other people.

Yes so true spirituality is not going to just affect how we relate to people, it will affect how we relate to things, how we relate to the environment, what we eat, what we drink, what we wear, everything will be changed because we have become more and more sensitive to what we are doing to the world around us.

2.8.2. An example of eating meat and using animal products

So I don't know about you, but have you ever tried to find a pair of vegan shoes? (Laughter)

Mary: Check his out, they are new, they are really good.

I found these in Melbourne. There is this little tiny shop in Melbourne that is a vegan shoe shop. It has just got this beautiful variety of really lovely shoes particularly for men actually, less so for women probably, the women designers perhaps need a bit of help. But the men's shoes are awesome, so I bought a few of those pairs. But it is very hard to find and the reason why is because we are all just so used to the killing of animals in order to provide things for us. So when we become more sensitive we are even more sensitive to animals and their welfare, and we are more sensitive to the environment around us.

Participant: So based upon what you have just said, to what degree is spirituality incompatible with the eating of animals and with capitalism as a whole?

Well I feel with the eating of animals, true spirituality is definitely totally incompatible with the eating of animals because if you look at it, it creates huge amounts of pain for those animals. It also creates a lot of pain for our environment and many people in the world are actually in pain as a result of our desire to eat animal-based food. It also takes about ten times the amount of energy, so it is not economical to eat animal-based food, so true spirituality is not really compatible with the eating of animal-based products.

2.8.3. An example of Capitalism

With regard to the second question, what was that again? Capitalism. Well obviously anything that focuses on money as the primary thing in which we run a society is going to be confronted by true spirituality. Because in the end, if we were truly spiritual, we would not be putting money as our first requirement, or the financial economy as our first requirement, of anything occurring. And quite often myself and Mary have commented about this when we travel around because we notice, how they have people stopping people on the road while they are doing road works and quite often you have hundreds of cars all just sitting there engines ticking over. None of that really makes much sense for me from an economical perspective. I am saying a true economical perspective; if you just look at the money, it makes sense, but if you look at everything it doesn't make much sense. [00:29:02.18]

And if you look at what is happening in society today, particularly in Western society, we have such a strong focus on money being the primary thing that we have got to focus on, with any project, rather than whether it has the worth or the benefit to the population or not. So true spirituality would focus on benefit to the population and it would not care about the money. In fact it would understand that money is just a construct of man. We can print more money if we decided to, if we ran our economy differently we could easily have enough money to build all the things that we need and so my feelings are that true spirituality and capitalism are totally poles apart from each other.

Obviously though true spirituality does not attack anything either, so therefore true spirituality would not attack capitalism. What it would do is, it would actually help the capitalistic society to change to a more loving gift-based society. So it would not actually attack at all or go into protest about it, it would actually by the process of change happening in the individual, it will cause changes throughout the society.

So, for example, the more of us who live by giving gifts every single day, we just give gifts of our time and our energy and whatever the talents that we have, we give gifts to others, you imagine if there are ten people doing that and then those ten people will affect everybody they give a gift to. And if there were a thousand people doing it then it would be a much larger effect. If everyone in Sydney just gave gifts and there was no economy-based working system, but we all just gave gifts because we wanted to, then you just imagine what it would be like living in Sydney. You would not have this panic driving around everywhere because everyone would be in the process of wanting to give the gift of either their time or their energy or whatever particular strength or talent that they personally possess to another person. And because everyone wants to give the gift, in the end other people finish up giving the gift to you. But in a truly developed society there has got to be trust in that process and in our current society we do not have much trust and that is part of the problem.

So yes I feel in answer to the questions, true spirituality is not compatible with the eating of meat and definitely not compatible with capitalism either. We have to change the way we do things. [00:31:42.28]

3. The importance of describing the attributes of true spirituality

Participant: You urge us to embrace true spirituality, as far as I am concerned without explaining what constitutes true spirituality. Now surely there is a testable set of criteria that should define what constitutes true spirituality, but you are urging us, it seems now, into a process of transformational values, sensitivity and encouraging us to embrace that as the standard. Now there seems to be a very great flaw here in these two sets of values, could you explain it please?

Well firstly what I am doing is, rather than doing what you are suggesting, what I am saying is there are certain hallmarks of true spirituality. I am not actually saying what true spirituality is, at this point, because everything, that myself and Mary are trying to achieve, is to help people come to their own conclusions about what is true spirituality in terms of everything that you can look at on the planet in terms of investigation; what are the signs of the ones that are true and what are the signs that are the ones that are fake? And so when we are listing these things, we are focussed not on trying to define true spirituality, itself, but rather I am defining the characteristics of it, what kind of characteristics we would expect it to have.

Then what we are saying to yourselves as an audience is now that you can sort of see the characteristics, examine the world, look at the world itself as you see it and then see the things that have those characteristics and start using your own investigation and will to investigate that and find what true spirituality really is. So we are not wanting to define true spirituality here, what we are trying to do is to define its characteristics so that we can find true spirituality in the end or what is the Truth, in the end.

Participant: It does but it promotes the contradictoriness. "The good that I should I do not the evil that I should not that I find myself doing," said St Paul. How do we know that we are embracing characteristics of what constitutes truth? How do we test it?

Well that is what we are going through here.

Participant: But these are simply characteristics you are raising now, which may or may not be true in the final analysis.

Well I would argue they are always true. So true spirituality will always stands on its own, true spirituality will always grow naturally, true spirituality will always be unedited. True spirituality will always confront fear; true spirituality will always allow emotion. I'm not saying what the truth is, what I'm saying is; this is what the truth should allow. [00:34:41.10]

Participant: If only you could determine what true spirituality is. You see even the business of fear, I mean...

Now I don't think you understand where I'm coming from.

Participant: No perhaps I don't, forgive me. I wasn't here yesterday so there is this antidote that you are using to disprove a set of pseudo spiritual gifts, the subject of your essay yesterday?

You were not here yesterday?

Participant: I wasn't, no, so I missed that part. But even confronting fear surely I raised the answer earlier, that truth drives out fear, it doesn't confront fear, it drives it out. Thereby you test its reality as with all real true spiritual gifts, they are testable. Come let us test all things, not some things, test all things. We don't live according to a relativity ethic where everything in our own eyes is relativised and therefore we can accept it as true or discard it if we don't approve, that is not true spirituality.

Mary: We agree completely.

I don't disagree with what you are saying at all. So I am not sure what the issue is for your self? [00:35:59.16]

Participant: The issue is the contradictoriness. But what constitutes in your eyes, truth? Love suffers long and is kind, it's not puffed up; this is love. It can be tested in the hard area of...

But that is what we have been talking about for the whole of the last two days.

Mary: That is actually one of the points that we have raised - that a true spiritual practice should be testable. You should be able to engage in it and test the truth of what it is teaching you through your own experience.

Participant: Well Pilate had these questions and he said contemptuously, "What is truth?" He didn't really want to know what truth was but it did affect his set of criteria.

Mary: Yes but we are people who are very engaged in desiring truth and testing it, yeah.

Okay can we proceed?

4. Attributes of true spirituality (continued)

4.1. Emotionally real, honest, with integrity and personal responsibility

Mary: Okay well we were talking about two forms of pseudo spirituality. Some are intellectual and condemn feelings. On the other side often we see paths that might be enjoying fake expression or histrionic emotional displays.

So I think we said emotionally histrionic was a mark of fake spirituality. In other words people faking their emotions, they were trying to make out that they feel love when they don't and you soon, through the process of interacting with them, can see that they don't feel much love when you interact with them. So this is where our emotional fakeness is often present in some forms of spirituality. So what would be the opposite of that? In terms of what would we expect true spirituality to be? [00:37:43.15]

Participant: Just real.

So emotionally real?

Participant: Emotionally real, yes.

Yes. Emotionally real. Honest. True spirituality would want to confess our true feelings rather than what we believe everybody else wants to hear, wouldn't it?

Participant: I realise that it would require recognising your true soul condition. So in other words I am only going to be emotionally real, if I come from my true soul condition I guess. It is reflecting my true soul condition.

It is but you mentioned integrity. It would have some integrity to it.

Participant: Personal responsibility.

Personal responsibility, yes.

Participant: If its histrionics, it is generally probably condemning another person or being self-indulgent in some kind of way rather than responsible.

Yeah so true spirituality is not selfish or anything like that. Good. Okay can we then proceed with the next one? [00:38:55.22]

4.2. Takes decisions and actions, allow experiments, loving and powerful

Mary: We had weak, light, airy, promotes indecision is and we talked a lot about this concept of indecision yesterday, this emotion around indecision that keeps us engaged in pseudo spirituality.

So what would real spirituality do there?

Participant: True spirituality will take action.

So with true spirituality you will make decisions and take action, the process won't be passive. It won't be just sitting down there and watching the world fall apart around you without wanting to do something to help the situation.

Participant: True spirituality allows you to make a wrong decision, to experiment.

So it allows experimentation, yes. But what kind of experiments? Does it allow you to experiment with things that are evil? (Laughs) What kind of experiment are we talking about?

Participant: Healthy and safe.

Right so how do we define healthy and safe though?

Participant: I was just going to say always loving.

So experimentation has to be loving, but then we have got to define what loving is.

Mary: Well something that accounts for personal responsibility, which you said in the previous point. So if I am engaging an experiment I am going to be responsible for the...

For the outcome?

Mary: For the outcome, for my intention those kinds of things, yes.

And obviously if I engage in experiments that I already know before I begin are actually going to cause pain to others, then you would have to question the validity of the experiment. So the experiments have to be undertaken with sincerity and some integrity. So if you are just undertaking an experiment just because you can, knowing that it might and possibly will damage another person, then of course you would not engage that experiment if you were in a state of love. So what I find is that a lot of people believe that you can experiment and you can experiment with everything and anything, it doesn't matter what pain and everything it causes, and obviously that would not be true spirituality. [00:41:17.00]

Mary: Something that occurred to me as you were talking about the different systems is how powerful true spirituality is in that when we are engaged in true spirituality we are not going to be protesting or attacking other systems, but we are going to confront error if we are engaged. Our own personal change will confront things around us that are not truly spiritual.

Yes, so rather than attacking in a system that is in error, it will still confront it just by our being there; it will confront the system that is in error. So when we are in a state of love and truth ourselves, it automatically confronts the error in another without us having to attack them or without us having to judge them or any of the other things. Just by our living our life in harmony with truth and love the error is confronted in some way automatically. And that is what makes true spirituality powerful. We don't have to force change upon people because change will automatically happen through what they observe. And in fact if you look at it, forcing change on anybody does not really work, and it requires a lot of very unloving behaviour generally, even right down to the threat of murder before change can occur if you are trying to force it on somebody. It is far better to engage the person in a process where they desire change within themselves. And one way you can do that is by you changing and then showing them through your own actions without even talking, you don't have to even talk; you can show them through your own actions that your change will become attractive to them and so therefore they will feel drawn to make similar changes as a result of the attraction. [00:43:08.04]

4.3. Loving, truthful and irreversible change of the real person, actual feelings and emotions

Mary: Okay we talked about pseudo spirituality often being entranced by the metaphysical and having no improvement in soul condition.

So pseudo spirituality is entranced by the metaphysical, being focussed on the spirit body and how the spirit body works, and the chakras and all of those other things. While that is interesting information and we would never say to somebody don't investigate something that is interesting, in the end, what would true spirituality be focussed on, in comparison to that? What is its point of focus?

Participant: Soul-based.

So when you say soul-based though, what are we talking about?

Participant: That's your feelings, emotions, desires, beliefs.

Right, so true spirituality is focused on change of the real person, isn't it?

Participant: The real you.

The real you, the actual feelings and emotions change and they become more loving and truthful and they become less demanding, less expecting, there will be less anger, less annoyance, less frustration and all of those different things as a result. But it is all from the feeling, it is not like you are trying to manufacture what is in your mind and change your actions; rather it is a sincere change where you automatically find yourself acting more lovingly without even having to try because you have removed from yourself the reasons why you were unloving before, whatever those reasons were.

Mary: And there's a key word that we have used to describe the hallmark of true spirituality in this regard, and it is irreversibly.

Yes, true spirituality results in irreversible change because obviously as you grow with true spirituality, there is a certain change that has occurred. Let us say you have released from yourself the rage that you used to have, you can put yourself in any situation and that rage will not be present anymore. No matter what anybody does to you, no matter what anybody says to you, no matter how much they want to damage you or to cause you pain, the rage still is not there anymore. And that is a good indication that you have undergone an irreversible change that no matter how bad the world around you gets towards you, you still have engaged this change in such a manner that you can't change back anymore, you can't change back to become more unloving again anymore. That's a good sign of true spirituality.

4.4. All inclusive, all special, accessible to all, non-hierarchical, desiring to give and share

Mary: We talked about pseudo spirituality often being exclusive and creating groups and cliques, and hierarchy was another thing we talked about yesterday as well.

So what is the opposite of this?

Participant: True spirituality would be all inclusive.

So true spirituality is all inclusive, yes.

Participant: There would be no specialness.

So when you say no specialness, all of us are special (laughs).

Participant: Oh okay. When one person seems to have been given a gift and they are special because they went through a process of... what's another word...

It would honour the gift of others, wouldn't it? So if I recognise that you have a great mathematical mind, let's say...

Participant: Oh, I'm talking about for lots of pseudo spiritual teachers if they write an autobiography they describe a moment of a gift that they got something that other people don't have. So it creates a specialness where you haven't got that, I've got that. So there is an automatic inequality.

But all of us do have individual gifts though; it is how we approach that gift with another. So true spirituality would be humble in the way that it approaches the gift with another and instead of saying, "I've got this and you haven't got it," and be condescending towards the other, it would say, "I've got this gift, if you want I can share it with you." [00:47:58.21]

Participant: And most authors they say have a moment of enlightenment, so it is more like a gift from God of them reaching a stage of enlightenment. So it creates the "I was given something and you haven't been given that" in terms of a supernatural spiritual experience where God selected them as a chosen one, but it's not that everyone can get it. So there is this dynamic of difference. I have been involved in that, which is probably why it is close to my heart.

Mary: It is the "I'm better than you" thing.

Participant: I'm better than you, yes.

And true spirituality is all really based around this underlying principle that we are all God's children and therefore all equal.

Participant: Yes equality.

So equality is a definite sign of true spirituality.

Participant: And also it is the opposite of the non-ownership. It is like it is accessible to everyone. Everyone has got open accessibility.

Yes true spirituality embraces accessibility to all, very good.

Participant: Yes I was just thinking it wouldn't actually require anyone to necessarily follow it to exist in a sense.

True spirituality can exist with nobody following it, is that what you're saying?

Participant: In a sense, yes. It can still be because everyone can be practising pseudo spirituality but because God exists, then it will still exist despite no one necessarily following it. It is the opposite of having groups; there would be no one in a sense, as an extreme.

Yeah as the very extreme, nobody can have it on Earth and yet it would still exist. Yes that's very true.

Participant: What's occurred to me from what you have been saying is that true spirituality is seeing everyone equal to ourselves, and we have a natural response to help one another not being self-centred; that to me is more a mark of true spirituality. And the other thing that you said that coupled with that is the desire to give; standing back from the self and giving to others seems to be more about true spirituality. Whereas yesterday you were talking about people holding the truth and being self-centred and self-orientated whereas spirituality is breaking those bonds and allowing people to receive the knowledge, the freedom, the ability to go out and find these things.

Yes so true spirituality is very sharing as well. Often you see little children not wanting to share, and as a parent when we see a child not wanting to share we are automatically confronted, we can see that's not a very loving space. When we are all sharing and I mean really all sharing, where even in the Western world we're really ready to share with everyone in other parts of the world, then once we're really sharing, we can now start to say we're now practising real spirituality or true spirituality by sharing. [00:51:09.27]

Participant: True spirituality is non-hierarchical.

Yes so could we explain more about that? Yesterday we talked about how generally with pseudo spirituality there is a hierarchy. There are the people who are more spiritual if you like and then there are people who are less spiritual. And then there are people who are not spiritual and the people who are more spiritual look down generally upon the people who are less spiritual, and you have this hierarchy. You see this hierarchy developing in religions and you see it developing in many other walks of life too by the way - not just religions.

Participant: I like the distinction you made yesterday between hierarchy and authority, where the two are very, very different. Authority is sometimes necessary in society whereas hierarchy can be more condescending in nature and otherwise not necessary.

Exactly. Hierarchy is really saying I'm better than you. Authority is just saying no we all recognise that maybe love needs to be the authority. So therefore we can perhaps define in a society what is loving and then we all agree to conform to that viewpoint of love, which is accepting the authority of love. So that is very different than hierarchy. Hierarchy is where I am saying, "No I define what is loving and everybody else has to do what I want." [00:52:40.29]

Now you could look at the way we run most of our companies on the Earth, most of it is hierarchical. You have people in certain positions of power and authority and they express that through hierarchical systems. If you look at most religions on Earth they are also hierarchical in nature, and that's a mark that they are not really truly spiritual yet. And we're all in a process of change. So remember that when we make these comments that we're all able to change and so therefore these systems that we have made are able to change if we change.

Participant: It encourages participation and individual real self development.

Yes so in fact in a way it requires real development of the individual. So individuals have to change really. We can't expect everybody to go, "I'm just a member of this particular faith or I'm just a member of this particular political process" without us actually in our heart, if we're truly spiritual, changing in our heart with those particular things. So it's not just an idea or concept to us anymore. It's a bit like the old saying where you do whatever you want during the week but on Sunday you go to church and get forgiven. And that whole concept is really not a part of true spirituality because if you were truly spiritual you'd want to do what was loving all the way through the week and therefore you wouldn't need to be forgiven by the time you got to the weekend for very much at all, except for perhaps the mistakes that you made.

Mary: There was something else we had here, we talked about equality, but there is another quality of unifying people.

Participant: I was actually going to make the point, way back there when you were talking about equality, that we've all got a contribution to make and that we all have the gifts but it depends on how we use those gifts. Quite often we say we're all equal therefore nobody should have authority over us but I'm making the point that people who use their gifts to the best for everybody else are worthy of respect and honouring. I think we forget that point that there are people who have gifts and they use them to the best of their ability, they are to be respected.

Yes so it's like if we're thinking from a musician's perspective, while all of us might be able to play the guitar let's say at some point in the future or even now, there will be some people that are so good at it that we would just love to go and listen to them for the whole day and there's other people that are going to be so bad at it that we're probably not going to want to listen to them at all. And there is a whole range in between. Now that doesn't mean that we're still not equal but it just means that we honour the gift of the person who obviously has developed that gift. And also if we were wanting to learn we'd obviously want to learn from that person who has the greater capacity to do that particular thing. So that would make sense, but that doesn't mean that we worship them, that doesn't mean that we then go down the track of saying that they are better than us and we try to do what they want us to do and all of those kind of things because that would then be worshiping of them rather than just respecting their gift that they have.

4.5. Unifies, draws all to self

Mary: We've said here that one of the hallmarks of true spirituality is that it unifies and it draws all to itself. Why would that be? How would that be?

Participant: I was just thinking that because it promotes growth, where you don't grow as an individual despite others but rather grow more as a collective. So when someone grows it's part of that growth to want to actually help others to grow rather than just grow to be enlightened despite others and just want to be better than anyone else. So that unifies people.

Can I make a basic illustration? If this is God (AJ draws on the whiteboard) and here is me and here is Mary when we start off, and here's other people, like we're all very separate from each other and separate from God.

Mary: And we might have different feelings, beliefs, lifestyles all of those things.

As we absorb more of God's Truth and God's Love, obviously we're going to get closer to God. And as we get closer to God, what's happening here is the gap between ourselves is also closing so we are automatically becoming closer to each other as that occurs. So the beauty of the true spirituality is that it's going to draw people together, it's going to unify rather than separate.

True spirituality draws people together as they grow towards God

Now when I say rather than separate, that's if two people embrace true spirituality it will draw those two people together. Now if one person embraces true spirituality, he or she will get closer to God and also feel closer to their neighbour or whoever that neighbour is. But if the other person is embracing pseudo spirituality it doesn't mean that they will feel closer to them. So it just depends whether we embrace it or not as to how close we will actually feel, but if we personally embrace true spirituality we will automatically feel much closer to other people around us. We'll feel more love, more compassion, more understanding, more kindness towards other people around us, not less. [0:59:03.22]

Mary: And if we all decide to respect the authority of love, even just to respect love as the authority, then naturally we're going to act in unison on different topics because we'll want to respect love in every situation.

Yes so even if you and I disagree on a certain matter, we will still be close enough to love each other even though we might disagree on a certain thing. We won't feel all angry and upset about the fact that the other person doesn't agree.

4.6. Appeals the hearts of all, but few are courageous enough to follow

Mary: Okay, yesterday we said an interesting thing, which was that pseudo spirituality appeals to the hearts of few but many follow.

And remember we said that quite often with pseudo spirituality you notice people living a certain life that's not really in their heart. Lots of people are doing it but if you ask them do they really believe it, a lot of them go, "No I don't really believe it, but my mum and dad are doing it so that's why I do it." Or, "My friends are doing it so that's why I do it." So it's not really in their heart but they still follow it because of the collective pressure of the society around them, they still do it because of that. What does true spirituality do instead of that?

Participant: It appeals to just about everyone but it's a real challenge to follow, from personal experience.

Right so it has a soul appeal, it has appeal to the feelings.

Mary: So we could say it appeals to the hearts of nearly everyone.

Participant: Including all my friends - everyone's talking about emotions, they already want to know what I'm doing and how are you guys are. We were debating about it yesterday but it's like, "I think I'd like to come today but, no I'd rather do something else." It's appealing but it's a challenge.

So with true spirituality it appeals to the hearts of all generally when they hear it, if they're open enough to hear it, but few are courageous enough to follow it. Yes that is definitely a mark of true spirituality. And one of the reasons why of course is because it requires change and a lot of people are resistive to change, they don't want to change or they feel there's little point in change and so forth. So it's the narrow path, it's a narrow way and because it's narrow, few people actually follow it. Even if they do find it, few follow it.

So in the end we hope that it's the opposite of that, that everyone feels the appeal of it in their heart and then they also want to follow it. That would be a perfect world wouldn't it? If everyone wanted to embrace love, truth and humility and follow that. [01:01:59.16]

4.7. Confronts addictions, appeals to truth, love and humility, appeals to and desires investigation

Mary: Okay, yesterday we said pseudo spirituality appeals to error, injury and addictions.

So it appeals to error, injury and addictions. So what does true spirituality do?

Participant: It confronts all addiction.

So it confronts addictions. It doesn't allow people to justify their addictions, it's gets people to examine them and look at them and release them.

Mary: What does it appeal to? What does it lead you to look for in all situations?

Participant: It appeals to truth and love and humility.

Participant: It also appeals to investigation; it appeals to people with an inquiring mind.

It certainly does, it appeals to investigation and in fact allows investigation too, it doesn't condemn it.

Participant: Pretty much desires it really.

It desires it, that's a very good word; desires.

Participant: Because the truth will hold up no matter what, until truth changes and becomes something else.

Exactly. Many religions have this idea that if you investigate something outside of the boundaries of their particular tenants and their particular ideas, that they will excommunicate you from their religion. Now if it was a truth-based religion it wouldn't do that because it would allow and desire investigation because in the end it has enough confidence in the truth to know that it will always be exposed in the end. [01:04:03.15]

Participant: Would you say this because God's a dynamic being?

Yes and also a truthful one. So anything that God creates, God wants us to know what the truth is and God wants us to find it and once we have a desire to find it, a seeking attitude where if we keep on knocking and we keep on asking, we will get it. And this is a mark of a loving God actually that God will always give what we sincerely desire; if it's in harmony with love we will always receive. And that's something we need to always remember as well. So the true spirituality desires truth, that's a bit different than allows it - it desires it instead.

And a lot of times we think we desire truth but then when somebody tells us the truth about ourselves, (laughs) then we often don't desire it. So we would even need to desire the truth about ourselves, God's truth about ourselves, whatever that truth is. And it's like looking in the mirror and seeing ourselves, warts and all.

Participant: Cathy and I were talking last night about what you said yesterday - that we have to be true to ourselves. Pseudo spirituality allows you to come up with facades and if we put those facades up and we're not our true self, then God's not learning what it is because we're not being truthful entities to let God know what these expressions are through us.

Yes and I would actually say though that God does know who we truly are, but God's wanting us to know ourselves. And so therefore if we've got the facade up, God's going, "Well how can I interact with you with this facade? I can only interact with you at the true level that I know is there underneath all this facade, underneath all of this picture that you've built for yourself, because you can't cope with what I've created." So if you look at it from God's perspective, God's created a beautiful, perfect individual. What we've done is muddy the water with facade and it's not just ourselves that have done it, it's often how we were brought up, how we've lived in society and all these other things that have muddied the waters and therefore created the facade. But God wants to interact with the real person not with the person who's the facade; He wants to interact with the person behind the facade, the real individual. [01:06:38.27]

4.8. Encourages us to engage free will in a loving way

Mary: And I suppose that would be another hallmark of true spirituality; it would encourage us to engage our will so that we can just discover ourselves and God...

...in a loving way. So in other words if a person is engaging their will in an unloving manner, what would true spirituality do there? It would at least speak up wouldn't it? It would at least say, "Actually I feel that's an unloving thing that you've just done or just said or how you just treated me," or whatever. But on the reverse edge of that it would also say whenever we notice anybody being loving or we would always be encouraging other people to be loving and using their will in a loving way, they can do whatever they want as long as they use their will in a loving manner. So true spirituality would not try to control people's will, it would allow the freedom of expression of their will but it does stand up for it being in a loving manner. So in other words it does have something to say about whether it's loving or not.

4.9. Humble, self-reflective, admits to own faults, wanting to give and serve, altruistic

Mary: One of the things that we said yesterday was that pseudo spirituality is arrogant; it denies the true self and true condition, which you've already touched on in terms of an answer.

So what would be the opposite of arrogance and denying your true self?

Participant: Humble.

Humble.

Participant: And self-reflective.

Self-reflective, yes. It admits to its faults doesn't it?

Participant: Would it be also be selfless?

Selfless. In what way can we define selfless?

Participant: Not concentrating on yourself as we were saying before, to stand back and see others like yourself to help them to make space...

Yeah, can I define it as wanting to give?

Mary: Or leading us to serve, could we say that?

To give, wanting to serve.

Mary: We would still be in connection with our self though in our own desires. We'd still have a desire to care for ourselves as much as we do to care for others.

Because you wouldn't want to serve others to your own detriment because you know your own self degrades and then you can't serve anybody. So it will have that respect for your self still.

Participant: Yes I was thinking more like if I had a child and I'd like to give it the opportunity to learn not to hold it back.

Yes so you could say it is altruistic in the sense that it's always looking for what's going to benefit the other person not just itself. You know in today's society we see that most of the time we're just looking to benefit ourselves; how can we benefit ourselves? And yet with true spirituality we'd always be looking for how can we benefit everybody here, not just ourselves, and it even has a feeling of forgetting oneself to a large degree. It doesn't mean that you wouldn't care for yourself because you would still do that, but you forget yourself in the process and you're working for a greater good rather than just for your own good. [01:11:05.02]

4.9.1. Loving yourself as much as you love others

Participant: So I think Mary's touching upon it but could you expand on that concept of martyrdom because with most spirituality, particularly the female role, you seem to be a martyr and it's very good to put everyone else first and yourself last.

Yeah this whole idea that a good mother is a good martyr basically is certainly a...

Participant: I've been trying to put that into practice but there haven't been great results. (Laughs)

No there's not much good result from martyrdom. It is something that a lot of women are taught to be from a very young age, in terms of you've got to look after your family, feed yourself last and do all of these things. From God's perspective if we look at it, if you and I are equal then I should love you to the same extent as I love me. Is that not the case?

Participant: Like in the Bible love others as you love yourself - it's kind of assuming you love yourself.

Exactly. (Laughter)

Mary: It's a big assumption, yeah. (Laughter)

And many don't, I agree. But this is what we need to develop is if we are loving of others more than we love ourselves, we will eventually become exhausted, we'll eventually become so tired that we can't do anything. If we love ourselves more than we love others, then we will exhaust others.

So if you look at the process of exhaustion. So let's say I love others more than myself, I become exhausted. If I drag others into looking after me or loving me more than I love myself or more than I love them, then they will become exhausted. Either one is not loving.

Loving others more than ourselves leads to exhaustion

4.9.2. An example of parenting

Now if you apply that to a family with a mother then obviously you can see that a mother needs to love herself as much as she loves her children.

Participant: So does that tie in with self-responsibility?

Very much so. Very much so.

Mary: And it's difficult because we have so many different ideas about what it means to love oneself. For some of us it's, "I should get whatever I want all of the time" and...

And that's not loving yourself.

Mary: No.

And for some it's, "I should be able to give other people what they want all of the time," and that's not loving yourself either, or them. So the reality is if you look at a lot of our children in today's society, many of them grow up with very, very strong demands because their parents have taught them that their parents are going to love them more than they love themselves. As a result the children grow up believing that they should get everything they want to the parent's detriment. Now if a parent truly loved themselves they would not allow that kind of unloving behaviour to develop in their child.

Mary: Because also if they truly love their child, they wouldn't want to breed a sense of entitlement in their child because that will lead them to be an unloving person with everyone in their life.

And you see a lot of mothers doing this now with their children, where they allow their children to do everything and anything they want and allow them to yell and scream at them and demand everything from them, and all of these kinds of things without restraint. As a result of that, the mother just feels totally exhausted, which is the result of loving someone else or giving to someone else more than you're giving to yourself.

So if you truly love others, you would not engage that process with them, particularly if they were demanding, you would actually have to confront their demands at some point. So there needs to be balance, and with love there is always balance, there is an equality with it. Loving yourself as much as you love everyone around you.

So if I love myself I will be interested in my welfare, I will be concerned about taking responsibility and all of those kinds of things I will be. But if I love you as much as I love myself, I will do exactly those same things for you and I'll actually help you do the same thing for yourself. So martyrdom is not very, you could say, in alignment with true spirituality, it's not very truly spiritual at all. [01:15:46.16]

Mary: There's something else we said here just on that point. We've talked about wanting to be self-reflective and connect to the real self but what we're actually saying is that true spirituality requires a passion for the real self, a passionate desire for our real selves. So not just a begrudging admitting of who we are. (Laughter)

"Ten people last week told me that I'm something and I suppose I have to accept it." It's more like I want to know what I truly am, I want to understand my feelings properly and in particular I want to understand that so that I can become more loving, so that I can become less selfish, so that I can help others better. So it's not driven by even a selfish motive that I am more loving than you and I can prove it sort of thing, it's driven by a motivation of wanting to serve.

4.10. God-reliant, wanting to know God's Laws and Principles, placing and desiring God first

Mary: Okay we talked about pseudo spirituality being self-reliant and us becoming a law unto ourselves.

Okay so what's the opposite of that?

Participant: Becoming God-reliant.

Okay, what does that mean?

Participant: Wanting to know God's Laws and wanting to abide by God's Laws and also respecting the authority of the country or the place in which we live as long as it doesn't conflict with God's Laws.

Yes so we'd want to know God's Laws and Principles, so we'd want to try to discover them; we'd be prepared even to experiment to discover them. We'd be prepared to experiment to try to discover what God's Laws are on any particular subject certainly. What else would we do? [01:17:49.02]

Participant: Maybe putting God first as well.

So we'd be putting God first. What does that mean?

Participant: All of the things that we've talked about. (Laughs)

Yeah I don't feel it means denying oneself, no. I definitely don't because to put God first I have to acknowledge myself, I have to acknowledge my desires, I have to know that one of my strongest desires is God first. So I have to know myself rather than deny myself.

Participant: Yeah, basically all the things that we've said - being completely humble and honest and developing a relationship with God, being open emotionally.

So we're really needing to be open to God telling us things about ourselves.

Participant: The feedback.

Mary: And would you say as well when we put God first are you talking about as well desiring God?

Participant: Yes.

Mary: More than we desire other things?

Participant: Anything else, our addictions or anything else, it's desiring God and God's Love.

4.10.1. Learning God's Priorities through a relationship with God

Yes. So if you desire God first, what will happen to the rest of your desires? They'll be underneath that. So if you look at a priority list in our lives, what we'd have is God first and our relationship with God first, then you can see that everything else that we desire in our life would fall underneath that. Now in that relationship God will show us what is the correct priority of the rest of our life if we desire God first. So the correct priorities of the rest of our life will come about through that desire of that relationship. [01:19:46.16]

Mary: So how will that happen, babe? What is the actual dynamic that would occur?

Well every time that I have my priorities out of harmony with God's priorities for us, when I say God's priorities for us I mean the way that he created us to be, every time I put myself out of harmony with God's priorities, my relationship with God is not going to be as strong as if I pull my priority system into harmony with God's priorities. And so through that relationship God will teach me what's out of harmony with His Priorities and what's in harmony with His Priorities and therefore what is going to be in harmony with my complete happiness. Because remember that if we do exactly as God created us to be eventually, if that's what we personally desire to do in the end, we will actually be the happiest we can possibly be because that's what God created us to do.

So there's a lot in that and we could have a whole four hour discussion or more about that but we probably need to proceed.

4.10.2. Learning about love from God

Mary: We said pseudo is self-glorifying and promotes self-interest.

So what is the difference, what would true spirituality be?

Participant: I was about to mention that really recognising that we're children of God. If we believe that we're children of God and God loves us then He's wanting us to fulfil our desires with His aid. Because when I was doing the homework I thought well when I was a Christian all I wanted to do was find out what God's Will was for me and do it, and that had nothing to do with me. But now I realise that I need to be integrated with God, integrated mind, body and spirit with finding out every instant what God wants with me, not imposing on me.

Yeah I would even say that I'd probably define it even more closely than that. I would say, "what God wants us to do is to discover ourselves as God created us to be and then follow that with a passion". And when we do, we will actually be much more connected to God as a result and therefore have a stronger relationship with God. It's like a parent with a child. The parent doesn't force the child to decide what it wants. What the parent does is it tries to engage the child's will so the child discovers what it wants but wants things that are only loving. [01:22:53.17]

Mary: So it teaches about love.

So it teaches the child about love and that's what God is doing with us. So what God's attempting to do is teach us about love. Now these are all parts about love. Love is humble and it's self reflective and it's selfless, these are all parts of what love does. But if we think about it from a desire perspective, what God desires for us is that we discover our own desires that God has already inbuilt in us and we follow that with a passion in harmony with love. But God gives us the free will to do it out of harmony with love as well if that's what we want, understanding of course that pain will be the result if we follow that and pleasure will be the result if we follow it in harmony with love.

4.11. Glorifies God, creates awareness of God

Mary: Pseudo spirituality is self-glorifying, it promotes self-interest, and conversely true spirituality is God glorifying and creates an awareness of God.

Okay so it glorifies God and I feel too it also glorifies the gifts we see in other people.

4.11.1. Giving glory to God for unique attributes and characteristics in other people

So when I see a God given gift or talent being used in another person in a loving manner, I feel a strong desire to give glory to that, give glory to God if you like, for me seeing that in another person because that is a part of God's creation in that person. And so it's a very powerful thing when we start to go away from self-glorification and focus on lauding and honouring what God has created in all of us. All of us have been created with different talents, different abilities, different beautiful characteristics that we need to see them and enjoy them in each other; we need to see them and not be competitive with them. We need to see them and enjoy them in our interactions with each other.

Participant: Yeah along the same lines I feel that glorifying all of us as God's Greatest Creation - it's that part of it. So we're all equal and we're all special and remember in His hierarchy we are His greatest creation.

Yeah and is there a hierarchy? I suppose in terms of animals and if you look at all of the creations of God, the human soul is the greatest of those creations. But in that human soul there is so much individualised characteristics right across the board that we can't actually say that one person is better than another because each singular individual has a unique characteristic and attribute inside of them somewhere, it's just a lot of times they haven't discovered it yet. But somewhere inside of them is a characteristic and attribute that nobody else has and this is a very powerful thing for us to start to discover in our interactions with people. [01:26:18.18]

4.11.2. It is possible for man to be perfect, as God is

Participant: We're here to glorify God but yet we are blind and rebellious and sinful and therefore we're reaching to something that we can't define. Now He who is the source of all love chases us, whom he loveth. Now that's very painful, that is in my experience. I wonder if you'd care to comment on that where we don't glorify God, we love God, because He first loved us and we're putting therefore the cart before the horse in this respect.

What was your name, sorry?

Participant: John is my name. I'm a friend of David here. I spent many years in Papua New Guinea among cargo cults and sorcery and witchcraft. Very powerful spirituality if you like I was an administrator and so we've seen at the very root level of sorcery and witchcraft what these demonic spirits can do. They are real but I'm concerned about your Utopianism here, that we can determine the course of our responsiveness to the great source of love and that we thereby glorify Him. Are you not putting the cart before the horse? We are blind and rebellious.

I can't agree John. At our core level God created us without sin and we have chosen to sin so it's a choice that we made to act out of harmony with love. If you remember the words in the Bible where Jesus said, "You must be perfect as your heavenly Father is perfect." Now if Jesus stated those words then he had a full intention that we're able to become perfect yes?

Participant: Well he said, "Be perfect as my father in heaven which is perfect."

I agree. I know what I said - I was there. (Laughter)

Participant: The commandment is, "Be ye perfect even as my Father who is in heaven is perfect." We are incapable. We are blind, blinkered, rebellious, and scornful, we need repentance.

I can't agree. Jesus wouldn't have said to be something that was impossible to be and so I can't agree that we were created rebellious, blind and scornful and sinful. I feel that's a very Christian viewpoint that is in mainstream Christianity but it is not what Jesus was reflecting. So when I spoke those words in the first century, "Be perfect as your heavenly Father is perfect," I meant that we are totally capable of being perfect and the reality is we are, but only if we choose to act in harmony with love will we be. And this where I feel this whole viewpoint in many religions (and it's not just in Christianity) - that God created a flawed being that then needs rescue from God through God's Acts is flawed and illogical because God created a perfect being that decided, using its own will, to become flawed and therefore it must decide using its own will to become perfect, and that's why those words were stated, to be perfect.

You can be perfect that is my belief and my belief is quite strong because I've seen people become perfect. So you can be perfect even coming from an imperfect state. You can make choices that cause you to become perfect but only by the heart changing; the heart has to change in order for somebody to become perfect. That's what I feel. [01:30:10.24]

What's the next point? Can we move on to the next one?

4.12. Allowing of others' opinions, no condescension or judgement, respect and compassion for others

Mary: Sure. Okay, pseudo spirituality is self-righteous and inflates the soul into denial.

Okay so let's have a look at that. What's the opposite of self-righteousness?

Participant: Self-loathing.

Could you not yell out please, John? We need it all on the microphone. So what is the opposite of self-righteous?

Participant: Would it be humble?

Yes but there is more to it than that isn't there? What is self-righteousness? Can you define self-righteousness?

Participant: Arrogance.

So arrogance is self-righteous.

Participant: Well a component of, I suppose.

Can you see that self-righteousness is sort of a feeling inside of yourself that you are more righteous than another?

Participant: Superiority.

Yes it's a feeling of superiority. So what would be the opposite of that? Not inferiority because that would be making somebody else superior. So what would be the opposite to this feeling of superiority?

Participant: A willingness to succumb to a new belief or a new way. So it's like a surrendering of a stance.

Can I give a bit more background info about self-righteousness? Usually self-righteousness comes into play when we believe we have the right viewpoint of something and so therefore we believe another person has the wrong viewpoint, and then what we do with that is we feel that we're superior to the other person because we have the right viewpoint. That's self-righteousness. So what would we do if we weren't self-righteous even when we knew we had the right viewpoint? There are times when you know that you have the truth and you have the right viewpoint inside of you, what would you do with that if you were not self-righteous? [01:32:33.21]

Participant: You'd be allowing.

Okay, so you'd be allowing of...?

Participant: Of another - someone else to actually hold another viewpoint.

Yes.

Participant: Just to allow.

And so you wouldn't have a feeling of condescension towards the other person.

Participant: Yes.

So there'll be no feelings of condescension.

Participant: Can we sum it up as respecting the gift of free will of all others?

We would respect others, yes, and not just with their free will but whether they exercise their free will negatively or positively we would still respect them, yes. Anything else?

Participant: I guess you wouldn't talk about it so much, you'd just demonstrate it by the way that you're acting towards that person instead of telling them what you think is true despite what's going on because you're sensitive to what's happening.

Yes so you wouldn't feel anger or frustration or resentment towards a person, would you?

Participant: No.

For them not understanding your perspective or point of view. Good.

Participant: You might offer truth?

You'd still offer it, you would always offer it because that's a gift, isn't it? But you wouldn't expect the person to listen or take it or to act upon it. You wouldn't have a demanding attitude towards them. [01:34:17.07]

Participant: Just no judgement.

No judgement, yes. So if we define judgement, judgement is a feeling coming out of you that you're better than someone else. So you wouldn't have that feeling so there would be no judgement.

Participant: You would still have compassion for that person even if you didn't agree with their viewpoint.

Yes, so you would have compassion without condescension.

Mary: That wouldn't be all icky and condescending.

Yeah, that's right.

Participant: I find I've struggled with that myself personally and I've been working on it recently over the past few months. But what happened to me a lot in the past was if somebody didn't accept my viewpoint or agree with it, I would find myself getting frustrated or angry or upset with the fact that they couldn't see how right I was. (Laughter) And so to learn to let go of that has been an interesting experience.

Yes it's quite an emotional experience learning to let go of that because you've got to allow yourself to go through what the anger and frustration is all about. Usually you find out there are some fears in there, some childhood fears, and grief.

Mary: Ironically, it's often because we've been made to feel so silly when we were wrong about something so now we really need other people to validate that we're right.

But it's very powerful to give up that emotionally because then you can live the truth yourself without expecting anyone around to do that. So that then creates a desire in others to go, "Oh, what's going on for you? Why is this happening for you? You seem to be living a different life now." They ask more questions and therefore they're more open to actually hearing, by you releasing that particular emotional stance. [01:36:14.26]

Participant: I haven't heard the word ego mentioned at all.

I suppose that the way people on Earth use the word ego it's as a bit of a dirty word. In the higher spheres of the spirit world, ego just means the soul, the person's individual nature, which is what it comes from. But that's been transformed now on Earth into this idea that if you're egocentric then you're self-centric and so forth. And my feelings about ego are it would probably be more accurate, instead of calling it ego, to call it self-centeredness. And of course if we're self-centred we're out of harmony with love and therefore out of love with true spirituality. So if we use ego as that definition, it comes from a Greek word that hasn't got that definition though so that's the trouble sometimes - we can use words that have different definitions.

Have you noticed over the last hundred years even words in the English language have changed completely in their definition? Yeah, it's amazing how that happens over time.

4.13. Down to earth, authentic, no ritual, forces the soul into reality

Mary: Something else that we said on our list is that true spirituality is very down to earth. So rather than being self-righteous it's down to earth, and rather than inflating the soul in denial it actually forces the soul into reality.

Okay so down to earth. Authentic. [01:38:23.12]

Mary: It's more than that isn't it? It's really the lack of facade, its just being ourselves.

Being our authentic self, so true spirituality will encourage you to be your authentic self. It will be promoting your authentic self. It won't be encouraging you to maintain a facade so that everybody else likes you. I know with a lot of religions, and I've been in some of them myself, where you had to maintain a certain type of stance otherwise you would receive the direct condemnation of the rest of the group. And what that does is that it doesn't encourage you to be your authentic self, particularly in some areas. Whereas if true spirituality encourages you to be your authentic self, then it would be accepting of all of your flaws, when I say accepting it wouldn't expel you because you have those flaws.

4.13.1. Accepting people from all backgrounds

So in the first century I was well known for accepting prostitutes, people who were terrorists, people who were murderers, drug users and so forth into my company, just as I am now actually. (Laughter) Now that doesn't mean that I am any one of those things and that doesn't mean that all of you are those things either by the way. (Laughter) But if you accept people of all types who have all sorts of backgrounds and all sorts of things going on in their lives, then you have a great power to influence their life to change. If you already condemn them before you can engage them then how can they ever have the chance to go through the process of change? By rejecting people because of their way of life, we automatically prevent them from discovering truth. If we accept them and their way of life and discuss with them the truth, then now they have the ability to make choices and if they make what we believe is the wrong choice, we still wouldn't be self-righteous because we'd allow them to make their wrong choice and come back to us and say, "Ah I made the wrong choice." "Yeah I saw you do that actually." And we wouldn't condemn them for doing that, we'd say, "Well I've made many similar choices in my life as well and yes that's what happens until we learn. Then once we learn, we don't do that anymore." So we'd be far more authentic. [01:40:59.16]

What was the other thing that you said Mary?

4.13.2. True spirituality forces the soul into reality

Mary: Forces the soul into reality.

Yeah this is something that's really important. True spirituality forces, and I'm using that term for a reason, the soul into reality. What do you think we mean by that?

Participant: One of the things I was also going to say with the down to earth was, it doesn't require practices or techniques or prayer, or anything that induces an experience that's short lasting but doesn't create a change. A meditation or a prayer or Hail Mary or...

It does require prayer.

Participant: Oh in terms of, "Hail Mary full of grace", and you say it 15 times with your rosary beads. (Laughs)

So in other words it doesn't require rote prayer.

Participant: Or ritual.

Ritual, yeah I agree. No ritual. So when people come over to my place they think they're coming over to have dinner with Jesus and they almost sit there with their hands held waiting for me to say a prayer but myself and Mary do not pray before a meal because we don't want it to be a ritual. The way I eat is my prayer. Do you understand what I mean by that? I eat with a passion. [01:42:25.20]

Mary: Who's ever eaten with AJ? He's pretty passionate, yes.

Those that have eaten with me know that I eat my food with a passion and if I really like it the prayer I'm saying is automatically there in the feelings. So it's the feeling that comes out of you towards God that's your prayer, not the words; it's the feeling. So when I sit down to eat a meal there's a chance when I'm eating this meal that I might not like it. So how can I pray about it yet? The way I look at it is while I'm eating it I'm going to be praying. My feelings are going to demonstrate my response to the meal and to the person as well who created the meal. I do say to people, "That's not very tasty," if it's not very tasty. (Laughs)

Participant: I'm just looking at the forces on the soul so I guess what we're saying is that the soul can't but respond: the soul will always respond.

Exactly. The way God's created Her Universe is that eventually given eternity, our soul is going to respond to God at some point. Now we have a choice as to how long that point will be but eventually given eternity we're going to respond sooner or later because sooner or later if we don't respond, the pain of not responding is going to be so strong that we'll want to respond. And so the way God's created the universe is such that sooner or later our soul will eventually respond to love, it will eventually respond because without love it feels painful.

4.13.3. God has masculine and feminine qualities

Participant: I'm curious to know why you refer to God as Her in that sentence.

Because I'm trying to confront in all audiences this concept that God is just a He. There are very strong Christian and Muslim-based belief systems that have been around for thousands of years now that God is only a male or masculine in nature, but God is both masculine and feminine in nature. So for that reason I often use He or Her or Mum or Dad, Father or Mother interchangeably in my discussions with people.

In the first century I use to call God Daddy but if I called God Mummy (which I often also did, but that's not recorded in the Bible) often people would get very upset. And why do you think that is? Because it was a male dominated society, a very autocratic male dominated society. [01:45:12.29]

Okay this whole idea that true spirituality grabs the soul basically and pushes it in a direction and as long as we engage the process, we'll go along with that direction. We can stop that at any point in time, but the longer we stop it the more pain we feel. So what's the point? We might as well continue going. And this is what we start feeling after a while, we -start feeling what's the point in delaying this process of feeling happier, what's the point of delaying this process of being more in harmony with love? And were there any more darling in that list? That's almost it wasn't it? [01:45:51.06]

4.14. Gratifies the soul

Mary: There are about five more things actually. Yesterday we said that pseudo spirituality gratifies the animal.

So what does true spirituality do? Gratifies the soul. The feelings inside of you are going to be truly satisfied if you embrace it.

Mary: And an interesting thing that we said yesterday was that the world is invested in staying addicted to pseudo spirituality because it helps all participants to avoid their true selves, which comes from an emotion of fear which you've been talking about, but while at the same time helping participants maintain the delusion that they're spirituality progressive, which comes from a distortion of the pure desire to be spiritual creatures.

Yes so inside of our souls we all have this pure inbuilt desire to be spiritual creatures, we do. But pseudo spirituality says we can fake that. True spirituality says no you can't fake that, you've got to become more loving and it's got to actually happen, it's got to be real, that's what true spirituality does. Pseudo spirituality says no you can fake that, you can fake the gratification of the soul, and you can make out your soul's gratified even when it's not - that's pseudo spirituality.

4.15. Pleasurable, loves all

Mary: Okay we said pseudo spirituality is hurtful and loves only a few.

So what does true spirituality do? It's pleasurable and loves all. So when you notice any form of spiritual development that seems to attack a certain group or seems to be unloving towards a certain group of people, then you know it's not yet developed enough to become true spirituality, it's not yet developed enough to become all inclusive. It doesn't mean that it accepts error though. Can you see the difference? So true spirituality does not accept error in the sense that it doesn't accept error without saying something, but it does allow error. Can you see the difference? It doesn't attack error from the perspective of trying to destroy it because true spirituality doesn't try to destroy anything, but it does expose error, it does say, "No that is error", and it stands up for truth, that's what it does.

4.16. Feels better without spirit addictions, creates freedom from external influence

Mary: Okay in pseudo spirituality we feel good through spirit attachment.

Okay so what would true spirituality do with spirit attachment?

Participant: We feel a lot better without spirit attachment.So true spirituality feels much better.

Mary: And how do we feel good in true spiritual practice?

Without spirit addictions.

Mary: How do we feel good?

Participant: As we grow in love and feel our feelings so we get rid of the errors we naturally feel good. That's where the joy comes.

But what does it feel about spirit attachment?

Participant: You feel free from releasing the issues that you have.

Exactly. It creates a sense of freedom, yeah, freedom from external influence. In other words you can be the only person on the planet in a truly spiritual state and be okay and happy with that. So you feel totally free from anybody's external influence changing you to become like they are. All spirits are trying to do is externally influence us. So this beautiful thing about the true spirituality is that it frees us from external influences, you don't have to listen to a single person anymore because you're already listening to God and so therefore you're already in harmony with every single person. So you don't have to engage a process of hierarchy because you've already got the connection with the person who created you. [01:50:58.20]

Participant: I just thought you'd feel a sense of accomplishment because it's you that's doing it; it's not someone else influencing. So everything good that you create you feel good because it's like hey that was me, it wasn't some spirit or some other person.

Exactly, so you have a stronger sense that you are engaging your own desires and passions and that you have become more loving in that process without needing the assistance of others to do so. So while others may have assisted you and that's fine for others to assist you to become more loving, in the end you know you've made a change inside of yourself. So there is a sort of a sense of... pride's probably not the right word because in the English language pride means all sorts of things, but there's this sense of self-satisfaction that you gain from knowing that this desire to love came from within you and so the result will be inner peace and a sense of contentment as a result.

4.16.1. Growing through experiences with spirits

Participant: A question please AJ. I think I spent most of my life being over-cloaked by one or another or many and how can you tell that because I always felt a sense of freedom? I always felt gosh I'm learning, I'm good. But if I'm learning with someone else what's the difference? I mean they really are just me.

Well my suggestion is to listen to a series of talks I've recently given in England about spirit influence. There are positive spirits that influence and negative spirits that influence us. There were two talks that I gave to a group of people in England and one was talking about guides and guardians and how they can positively influence us and teach us and they are great to gain the assistance of, whereas others are negative influences.

Now sometimes the negative influence feels positive because it meets our addictions, and this is where we've got to be honest with ourselves. So we've got to see whether it's an addiction that's causing us to be happy. So it's a bit like the smoker who gets his next cigarette, he feels happy once he's got it and he feels very unhappy when he hasn't got it. And we've got to work out whether that's why we're satisfied - because we're actually addicted or not - and that's where self-honesty comes in. This is where we need to look at ourselves really honestly and go is this an addiction or is this an actual satisfaction of my soul going on here? Which one is it? And that requires a lot of self-honesty and I think in that discussion I actually talked about the groups of spirits who influence us positively, benevolent spirits, and the groups of spirits who influence us negatively and how we can tell the difference between those two sets of influences. [01:53:44.03]

Mary: And just at the end there did you say that they really are you?

Participant: Well, yeah, that was really my question. So I was drinking for quite a while and quite heavily and my wife would say, "You change", and I'd go, "No I don't - it's me and I'm going through these emotional experiences now because I'm drinking," and it created problems in the marriage and I'm growing from it. Is that me growing, the entity that's with me that's growing through my experience or we're both growing?

Both.

Participant: Exactly so when you say that you can have this joy of you learning or you expressing something, I'm questioning no you don't - it's us. It's like a football team we've all got better because of the experience. (Laughter)

Yes I agree that because of the Law of Attraction and how it works, every single attraction that occurs, even our attractions with spirits, can have a very positive benefit to us even if the spirits that are attaching to us are negative in their nature. However, to have a positive benefit to us it has to be a choice within ourselves for it to be a positive benefit because we could actually choose to follow their negative nature and become worse as well. We could actually choose to take the negative course of action and actually degrade our condition. So from your perspective what you've done is you've chosen to take a positive course of action and therefore you've improved from the experience, even if the experience was with a negative spirit. [01:55:23.01]

Participant: Yeah, it's like a marriage; there are good days and bad days. (Laughter)

Yes but what I'm saying is that your attitude was one of trying to grow, of wanting positive growth.

Mary: Well it is now. In the past it wasn't was it?

Participant: I really think it was, I was growing because through drinking or smoking or whatever the item is you're generating that bad experience that you can learn from.

Exactly.

Participant: So that's a benefit having it.

But you don't need to have the bad experience in order to learn.

Participant: Oh when you're stupid you do. (Laughs)

Exactly. (Laughter) I agree with that.

Mary: But God didn't create any stupid creatures though.

Participant: We learnt it.

Yeah we learnt to become stupid. But the reality is that we only need to have that kind of learning when we're already resistive to the more gentle form of learning. I agree with that. And when you do that, because God's created a loving existence and a loving world, then yes you can benefit from the interaction you have if you choose for it to become a loving influence in your life.

Many do not though. Many choose to cause it to be an unloving experience and they have very, very negative responses to the same stimuli as a result. So it really gets down to our personal sincerity of do we wish to change and become more loving? So at some point in your personal life you had a personal sincerity to become more loving and that caused you or dragged you through these sometimes negative experiences and that is certainly positive in the end, it was a positive result I agree. [01:57:12.19]

Okay what are the ones we've missed out there?

4.17. Free and a gift

Mary: Pseudo spirituality requires payment for all services and I think you have covered that.

So what does true spirituality do? It gives freely.

Mary: And we've said here without monetary demand but it's also without any sort of demand.

Without any demand, emotional or otherwise, yes. So it's a gift and we keep using that term gift in most of our presentations because we need to learn how to give, and it's about giving with no potential of anything coming back necessarily.

4.18. Shares knowledge and serves

Mary: Okay and finally I think you might have mentioned this one also. Pseudo spirituality promotes self and ownership of knowledge and I think you actually talked about this.

Yes in other words it shares knowledge.

Mary: It even promotes God and God's Truths doesn't it?

Yeah it serves. So in other words if I know something that you don't know, true spirituality would go, "I would love to share this with you if you're willing to hear it." A person who wants to own knowledge would go, "I'll share this with you as long as you pay me for it." Or, "I'll share this with you as long as you give me something in return for it."

Mary: Adulation.

Whether that's worship or adulation or honour or whatever that is, whereas a person who's truly spiritual will just share without expecting anything back at all.

4.19. Walks the talk

Mary: Okay and finally pseudo spirituality uses the words without substance.(Laughs) So true spirituality would walk the talk, yes? And all of us know what that means as a slogan. Some of us find that quite difficult to do but we all know what it means.

True Spirituality: Part 2

We've noted down the points of the rest of the discussion, which we will upload onto our website and you can download it as a PDF document. And we felt that because we only have about a half an hour left now of our time with you, that time would be better spent getting to know you a little better and answering some more individual questions that some of you may have here in Sydney that you'd like to have answered, so if we can focus on the people who live in Sydney if you would like to engage in that. If you would not like to engage that then we're perfectly happy to continue with our discussion. What would you prefer? You'd like some personal questions? Yes? Okay. Good-o.

5. Summary of the true spirituality discussion

Well if we can just summarise the true spirituality discussion, there are very easy and simple characteristics that we can measure with true spirituality and there are characteristics we can measure with pseudo spirituality. And if in your investigation in your day-to-day life just engage looking at everything that's so-called "spiritual" in the world that we have around us, and try to compare with the characteristics of either, whether they compare with the characteristics of pseudo spirituality or true spirituality, you will be left with the ability to decide what forms of investigation are the best forms of investigation to take for yourself. And you won't need anybody else saying to you, do this or do that, because you'll find that your own heart will be able to decide using those particular guidelines, you'll be able to decide for yourself what is the most loving way to proceed with your own spiritual development.

And that's what we would love to encourage you to do - to proceed with your own spiritual development, getting closer to God and looking at the different types of spirituality that you see around you and just asking yourself the question, does this fit into the line of what we know pseudo spirituality to be or does this fit into what we can see true, real spirituality to be? And we'd like to just encourage you to do that in your day-to-day lives as a form of personal investigation.

So that being said, let's finish that topic and proceed with answering anything you would like to ask for the next half an hour or so that we've got to answer any questions you have.

6. God's perspective of homosexuality

Participant: I've got a question about sexuality. In particular yesterday you mentioned several times that men have a penis and women have a vagina and God will want us to use those organs sexually, but when I was reflecting on that discussion afterwards it felt as if the implication was that homosexuality is not in line with spirituality or God's wishes. So I guess my first question is, is it? And the second question that follows that is you've mentioned the word "flaw" several times. In God's eyes is homosexuality a flaw in some people?

6.1. God creates souls with a range of masculinity and femininity

Okay firstly to answer the question we must understand the soul. If we understand the soul we will see that actually all souls that God has created separate into the two halves when they incarnate. Now each soul before separation has a percentage of masculinity and a percentage of femininity that is unique to itself. So some souls have more an even split of masculinity versus femininity and other souls have a much stronger split of masculinity than femininity and other souls have a much stronger femininity than masculinity. [00:04:55.22]

Mary: So that's inherent in their personality.

Inherent in their collective soul condition as a part of the personality of the soul itself.

Now these souls split in half when they incarnate. So imagine a soul that has more masculinity in it in terms of percentage, when it incarnates it splits in half and it's going to have a little bit of femininity in each half and dominantly masculinity in both halves.

In the case of a soul that has more femininity in it overall, when it splits in half it will have dominant femininity in both halves and a little bit of masculinity in each half. For a soul with equal proportions of masculinity and femininity, when it splits in half, one half is going to be dominantly feminine and the other half will be dominantly masculine.

Souls with equal masculine and feminine qualities (left), dominant masculine qualities (top) and dominant feminine qualities (right) split into two halves during incarnation with different amounts of masculinity and femininity

Now it's the dominant sexual characteristic of the half of a soul that attracts the body that it enters. So in other words when a soul with equal masculinity and femininity splits, it will attract a male body on one half and a female body on the other. When a soul with dominant masculinity splits, it will attract a male body on one half and a male body on the other half. When a soul with dominant femininity splits, it will attract a female body on one half and a female on the other because of that being the dominant of each half of the soul.

That being the case, we really need to rename the term "homosexuality" to be called the soul's sexuality, the sexuality of each individual half of the soul. And in the case of a soul with equal masculinity and femininity you could say that it's heterosexual, where one half is female and the other half is male. In the case of a soul with dominant masculinity you could say it's homosexual, one half is male and the other half is male and in the case of a soul with dominant femininity one half is female and the other half female so therefore homosexual in nature. [00:06:57.04]

A soul with equal proportions of masculinity and femininity will split into a male and female half on incarnation

So I wouldn't call sexuality where a person is homosexual, bisexual or heterosexual. I'm only interested in one thing and that is what is the other half of the soul's attraction and what is the dominant characteristic inside of each part of the soul in terms of masculinity or femininity, because that's what determines the gender of the body.

That being the case you could say God has created homosexuality, so it can't be a flaw. Therefore I feel that any religion that portrays homosexuality as a flaw does not understand the creation of the soul.

6.2. In our pure state we are only attracted to our soulmate

Mary: Isn't it also true though when we have a pure state of uninjured sexuality within us, the only sexual attraction we will have is for our soulmate. So it won't be for many men for me, it would be just for this one man. And if I were homosexual it wouldn't be for many women, it would just be for the woman who is my soulmate.

So you understand what Mary's saying there? When my soul incarnates it splits, so when my soul splits if I am in a pure state the only person that I will be attracted to from a sexual perspective anywhere in the universe is the other half of my soul. That's the only person I'll be attracted to. So if Mary found herself attracted to many men or I find myself attracted to many women sexually, then I'm yet to purify my connection with my own soul because once I purify my connection with my own soul, I will actually find only one person turns me on and it will be the other half of my soul. That will be the only person that will turn me on.

6.3. Soul incarnation

Participant: You mention the splitting and the incarnation of the soul. Can you explain that?

Sure it's a part of this discussion really. So there are three types of souls that I've described looking at the dominant sexuality characteristics. With incarnation it doesn't matter as to which type, but let's say in this case the soul has got a dominant masculine trait and a smaller feminine, and when it splits it splits in such a way that the masculine part is more dominant in both sides. [00:09:47.05]

A predominantly male soul will incarnate into two male halves with male bodies

What will happen when I say it splits, when a couple get together, have sex and they produce a body for the soul to incarnate into, what happens is the soul itself splits into two halves and each half attracts two bodies; there are two bodies created at the moment of conception. And in the case of this one that I'm drawing now, both of these halves will be male bodies because masculinity is more dominant in the entire soul before it splits.

Now in this state (prior to incarnation) it doesn't know itself, it doesn't know anything about its life, it doesn't know who it is, it just incarnates. As soon as it incarnates, it starts experiencing, and as soon as it starts experiencing, it starts discovering itself. That's part of the process that God created for us to come to discover ourselves completely; and ourselves is not just our half; we also need to come to discover the other half of ourselves.

So the process where the soul now envelopes the two bodies that the parents have created for it is the process I call incarnation. [00:11:09.08]

Mary: What are the two bodies babe?

The two bodies being the physical body and the spirit body. So you have two bodies. You've got a physical body and a spirit body and your half of the soul is connected to both of those bodies.

Upon incarnation we attach to a physical body (PB) and a spirit body (SB)

What is your dominant sexual attraction? Male or female?

Participant: Male.

Male, so your soulmate is male and he will have two bodies. He's got a spirit body and a physical body and his half of the soul is connected to those two bodies. And eventually, once you work through the different emotional injuries that cause you to be separate, you will eventually draw each other into each other's lives and you will eventually connect. Then as you grow you will eventually become completely connected for the rest of your existence and you will not be involved sexually with any other person because no other sexual relationship will satisfy you in fact. [00:12:16.28]

7. False teachings about Jesus

7.1. The book "Jesus lived in India"

Participant: Have you read the book "Jesus Lived in India" and if so do you find any truth in it at all or is it all a whole lot of hocus pocus?

There's no truth in that at all, sorry.

Participant: Right, thank you.

There is a large school of thought that I lived in India because some of my teachings from the first century seemed to have Indian philosophies involved in them. The reality is I learnt all of the teachings that I gave in the first century from God, from my relationship with God and I actually didn't live anywhere other than Egypt or in Israel in the first century.

However, in my sleep state we can visit any place on Earth, as can you, and obviously in my sleep state I certainly have visited all places on Earth; even in my first incarnation in the first century I visited other locations. And sometimes that's what they were referring to, but I did not learn from any of those experiences the things that I learnt from my relationship with God.

7.2. Christianity and Buddhism

Participant: Yeah I just found it interesting that there are such a lot of similarities between Christianity and Buddhism, like the Ten Commandments and the precepts for Buddhism - maybe you could have learnt those from the Buddha, who knows.

Yeah, the reality is that I also didn't learn from Judaism either. I felt quite differently in my connection with God than the laws of Judaism taught, just as I feel quite differently from what I learnt from God as to what I see in Buddhism and other religious formats. I feel the connection with God is where you learn everything, and that's the primary thing that I'm trying to teach, how to have a connection with God so that you can learn.

So what became Christianity was really a distortion of what I was trying to do because what I was trying to do was show people how to have a personal connection with God so that God could teach them individually, not make another whole set of rules that everyone had to follow and then cause it to become a religion as a result. That was not the underlying intention. Unfortunately, the way mankind is, they always want to make rules because rules simplify things to a degree because that means that we don't have to make decisions. [00:14:49.15]

So if society makes a rule for you, then your freedom of choice is taken away from you and for many of us we think that's a good thing because that means we're not having to make another choice. And so what we often do is we feel very attracted to religious formats that make rules so that we can avoid making our own choices and decisions and having to pay for them or enjoy them, one of the two. And my feelings are quite strong about that matter.

7.3. Taking personal responsibility in engaging a relationship with God

I feel we all need to take personal responsibility for the lack of love in our life or the amount of love in our life, for the lack of truth in our life or the amount of truth in our life and we need to engage this in a personal way with God and once we do that, we will learn very rapidly from God. And because God has all truth, you and I will eventually know the same thing. Because like I illustrated before, if you and I are working towards God, it makes sense that sooner or later we're going to have the same opinion on certain subjects, yes? Because we'll have God's opinion, not our own on all subjects.

Progressing towards God draws people closer together

And that's how I've always taught people to approach their life. I certainly never taught anybody to approach their life with treating me as their mediator or some kind of intermediary because I feel all we need to do is know how to have a relationship with God then we can engage that relationship. Once we can engage that relationship, God can teach us all things that we want to learn and it will depend totally on our desire as to how rapidly we learn that.

8. Determining spirit influence from a relationship with God

Participant: How do we know if our connection with God is spirit influenced or if it's real, if it's with God?

Good question. I've answered those questions quite a number of times particularly in these previous discussions that I've referred to, but if I can give a brief summary perhaps, it will help.

Imagine yourself for a moment. The real you is your soul and you have a physical body and a spirit body, which is connected to your physical body through a cord, and your soul actually envelops both bodies. Your soul controls both bodies, and the development of both bodies or the degradation of both bodies is controlled by the soul's condition. All of those things are controlled by the soul. So that's you, an individual. [00:17:33.07]

Now imagine God as an individual, and I do believe God is an individual because I've tried to connect to God using other means other than viewing God to be an individual and never been able to have a connection. Through my history I've only had a connection with God by seeing God and feeling God as an individual. Once I've done that, I've received Divine Love from God through that process.

We, as an individual, can connect to God, who is an individual

8.1. Forming addictions with spirits due to our impatience

Now unfortunately for many of us, spirits who are passed over, people who have passed, sometimes get involved with our relationship. The reason why they do is because rather than patient, we are impatient. In other words we want immediate results. This is a factor of our day-to-day life generally. Now because we are impatient we are not prepared to go through a process many times that requires the refining of ourselves because this is what God is wanting us to do. He wants us to refine ourselves to become more loving and we're not willing to engage this process if it's a long winded process. We want it to be over in a week or a day would even be better, or an hour or two (Laughter) that would be really good. That's the way we see it many times.

And so what happens is when we start beginning this process of refinement, what we finish up doing is we finish up feeling impatient and we feel like we want immediate results and because of that emotion, this lack of patience, we often start then wanting an addictive relationship with God. You see we want God to respond to us when we want God. We don't want God when we don't want God. We don't want God to respond to us when we don't want Him to respond. We don't want God to tell us things we don't want to hear. We don't want God to cause us to feel things that we don't want to feel. We only want God to cause us to feel things that we do want to feel. So we've become very selective. These are our addictions. [00:20:12.08]

We can form addictions with spirits rather than connecting to God because we are impatient in refining ourselves in our relationship with God

Now as soon as our addictions get projected towards God, God of course does not respond to addictions because God responds to the pure sincere individual. But who will respond to addictions? Many spirits who are in the spirit world who are in an addictive co-dependence, they will respond.

So the only real way to work through our stuff if you like, our collective emotional condition, is we need to firstly be focussed on refining ourselves. But one of the first things we need to focus on refining is our addictions because it's our addictions that cause us to connect to spirits rather than God and then accept what they are saying to us as God telling us things.

8.2. Historically spirits have mislead many people and religions

Now there are historically many, many people who have done this. In fact almost every religion that has ever begun on this planet has begun through this process. In other words the spirits who are in a certain place of addiction have told the person on Earth that they are God and then the person on Earth starts channelling all this religious information.

Now this happened to Moses, this happened to Mohammed, this happened to Buddha. The beginning of all religions has had this process where spirits in the spirit world have told the person a whole set of precepts or concepts or laws because the person doesn't want to deal with certain addictions they have. And yes, Mohammed did have some addictions and so did Buddha and so did these other people that you now know as major starters of religions.

And as a result of that God, the real individual God, missed out on declaring God's intentions for mankind's development. So instead what we've got on the Earth is a whole group of different types of religions that have all been started through this connection with spirits and that all began because of our impatience and our unwillingness to address our addictions. So even right down to the individual level it's the same problem. [00:22:32.07]

8.3. Focusing on addictions

So when we're impatient and we're unwilling to address our addictions, we will attract spirits to us, guaranteed, who want to fulfil our addictions rather than we have to go through the sincere process of changing.

So what I'd recommend to people instead of doing that is to firstly focus on the addictions. And the beauty of addictions is they can be easily exposed because every time you get angry, every time you get frustrated, every time you get annoyed it's because an addiction is not being met. So every time one of those things happens you know, "Ah another addiction, now I've just got to find it. What is this other addiction?"

The more addictions we can remove from ourselves, the more patient we'll become and also the less attractions there will be to groups of spirits who are willing to fulfil our addictions. So then they will be removed from our life through a process and once they are removed from our life, now we can begin to have a straight or a connected feeling with God directly rather than having all of these connections with spirits that are around us.

And I see that as a primary thing that we need to go through. That's why Mary and I have often spoken to people about their addictions and fears and so forth because fears create addictions. We feel that is a primary reason why people get influenced by spirits rather than being influenced through their connection with God. [00:24:20.02]

When we no longer engage our addictions we can have a direct connection with God

Participant: I was going to say it's probably worth mentioning hurt because that feeling hurt shows an addiction.

Yeah the hurt feeling is usually actually covering a lot of anger so yes it's definitely related.

9. How to find our soulmate

Participant: Just two questions. The first one back to the subject of soulmates again. Would there be say a small list of telltales I guess as to meeting your soulmate. I know we can ask God but I'm not exactly getting clear answers at the moment.

So you want telltales. (Laughter) Okay.

Participant: Well I believe I think I know some telltales but...

Who your soulmate is?

Participant: ...but I guess a little bit of reassurance maybe. (Laughs)

You want to be told yes or no? (Laughter)

Participant: Oh no, (Laughter) that would be too easy I think but...

Yes, yes (Laughs).

Mary: That's how God feels about it too.

God's very keen on you discovering your soulmate for a lot of reasons. Obviously your soulmate is the other half of yourself and so God's very keen to lead you to the other half of yourself. However in terms of telling a person who their soulmate is or telltale signs that somebody is a soulmate, it is far better to do this instead.

Here's you (AJ drawing on whiteboard) and in your case you've got a male body, so there's your male body. Your soulmate is... what's the gender you're attracted to primarily?

Participant: Female.

So your soulmate is obviously a woman, so there's her spirit body, there's her, somewhere in the universe.

God wishes us to find our soulmates

How do you get her? How do you get connected with her is the question really, isn't it? Now somebody coming along and telling you, "That person's your soulmate," isn't really going to establish any connection, even if that person does know. And there are many people, spirits in the spirit world in particular, who do know who your soulmate is but if they told you, it wouldn't help you right? [00:26:28.15]

9.1. Connecting truthfully with ourselves

What is going to help you are two primary things. Firstly, connect truly with yourself. To have a relationship with you, your soulmate is going to have to connect to you. You're going to have to know yourself pretty well if that's going to ever happen. So you're going to have to be connected to you. That's means you're going to have to be connected to your desires, you're going to have to be connected to your longings, you're going to have to know yourself, you're going to have to know your errors, and you are going to have to heal yourself to know these things. Focus on that number one. So connecting to yourself and your desires.

Now remember it's not just your errors you want to connect to because your errors eventually will disappear. You've got to connect to your desires because your desires that are harmonious with love, are your true self.

So if you are passionate about playing music for example, connect with that desire more fully because that is a part of your true nature. Don't expect anybody else to do it for you; you connect to it more fully. If you're an artist do the same. Whatever it is you're passionate about, if you are passionate about maths, connect to maths more fully. That's part of your desire. If you're passionate about science, connect to science more fully. [00:27:58.05]

These particular things will cause you to have a stronger connection with yourself. When you have a stronger connection with yourself, you are now open to connecting to the other half of yourself and you're actually helping the other half of yourself recognise you because if you're just in a facade, how can they recognise you? They can't. When they see you they'll walk past you in the street and go, "Oh yeah, there's another guy. Oh yeah Dave, he's pretty good looking, a rather good-looking guy," and might feel a little bit of interest but there's no real connection because they don't see the real you, they only see the facade; they only see the outward form. A soulmate relationship is about the soul, your feelings in your soul. So that's number one.

9.2. Remove inter-gender barriers

Number two is removing inter-gender barriers, which are all emotional. So how do you feel about your mum? How do you feel about your dad? What things happened as a child? How much do you want your mum to look after you? How much do want your dad to look after you? These are all the things that you need to allow yourself to remove from yourself because if you keep them inside of yourself, you will have these barriers with the other half of yourself, particularly because the other half of yourself is a female you will have those barriers.

Even if you were in the same gender attraction you'll still have barriers if you don't remove the inter-gender emotional barriers that you have. So look at your addictions with people of specific gender. So what are your addictions to men? What are your addictions to women? Your addictions to men in your case will tell you all of the things you don't necessarily like about yourself or that you need from men that you're not willing to give yourself. And your addictions to women will tell you all the things you don't like about women or all the things you think you need from women and they need to be removed from yourself.

Now as you do that, you automatically become more and more and more open inside of your soul to the other half of yourself. No matter what condition she is in you'll become more and more open. And you'll get to the point where you'll recognise her and know her; you'll draw her into your life if you haven't already; you'll recognise her and she might not even recognise you at that point. But because you've healed a lot of these problems, you'll be able to still recognise her and engage her in a similar process without pushing her in that process. [00:30:37.26]

Now a lot of people want to know who their soulmate is so that they can avoid those two particular processes. (Laughter)

Mary: That's why God doesn't send you a telegram (Laughter) because he wants you to do those things.

9.3. Reasons why we feel drawn to people who may be our soulmate

Participant: Yeah I understand. I guess with my situation I think I've already met my soulmate and there are just a lot of things that happened during that time. It really sort of made me look back and go Jesus I think... oh sorry. (Laughter)

You can use my name to swear, that's fine. (Laughter)

Participant: Maybe that's actually what it was because a lot of the females I had in my life before that met my addictions very well. I was quite sexually promiscuous and found myself in a relationship where, because of complete changes really, in a lot of ways I felt that I knew that person from the minute that we met. I kind of tried to pull myself away from her because I'd just come out of a big relationship and I didn't want to go back into another one. But I found myself that I couldn't; it was just almost an impossibility to walk away.

There are only three options as to why we're drawn to another. One option is that we're in addiction still and they have very compatible addictions. The second option is that we are being influenced by spirits, who are over-cloaking each of us, and who want us to have a relationship. And the third option is that we're soulmates. So it's one of those three options and we need to be in a position to be able to know which one. The only way we're going to get into a position to know which one is by connecting truthfully to ourselves and removing inter-gender barriers.

9.4. Working through emotional blockages to finding our soulmate

Now in the spirit world it's rare for people to actually recognise their soulmates until they're in the fifth sphere of their progression. And the reason why is it's in the fourth sphere of progression that you finish up removing a lot of the inter-gender emotional injuries that you carry from Earth and as a result of that you then can start to recognise your soulmate after that time.

Now for me, that took me nearly eight years of emotional work to get to the point where I could actually recognise my soulmate. So it took me eight years to recognise my soulmate and I feel a lot of people who say they know who their soulmate is still really don't know who their soulmate is many times because they're yet to go through this emotional work of connecting to themselves truthfully and removing inter-gender barriers. They're yet to connect to their true passions and desires and they're yet to deal with their inter-gender emotional injuries. [00:33:32.07]

If you look at your general life, you can see that your relationships with men and your relationships with women are confronting and for most people that's the case and these are great: this is great confrontation because what it does it causes you to work through these issues, if you embrace the process in a loving way you'll work through the issues.

So my suggestion is we do want to attract our soulmates. A soulmate relationship is the only forever based relationship we are ever going to have aside from our relationship with God and for that reason it's a very important relationship. It also is a great relationship in terms of fully embracing yourself because the other half of yourself is a part of who you are and it teaches a lot in this process, it's a fantastic process that God has created. The key is to not be impatient with it and then to start wanting spirits to tell you who your soulmate is and all of these kinds of things because what happens then is they'll start telling you things that are not true, many of them, and you'll get mislead down this track rather than dealing with the real issues. So my suggestion always when it comes to soulmates is deal with the real issues.

Now many times in our travels we see soulmates because you get to a point in your own development where you can feel certain people are soulmates for certain. However, when those people come up and ask, "Are we soulmates?" or, "Is that person my soulmate?" we generally will say, "What do you feel? Have you dealt with these particular issues?" Because many times we see that people haven't dealt with these issues and they do have an underlying suspicion of who their soulmate is. But if you don't deal with those issues, it's going to be very, very hard for you to maintain a relationship once you meet anyway without dealing with these issues. [00:35:23.14]

Participant: Yeah I think that would definitely be in my case for sure because it was impossible to maintain the relationship. But even if it's not, I still had the idea that those were the things that I really need to be working on.

Yeah, so focus on those things and in particular if your mum and dad are alive, engage the process of sorting through the issues that you have with them. Many people are not aware of their co-dependent addictions they have with their parents and we need to work through them to break down the barriers between ourselves and our other half, whether our other half is of the same gender or not.

10. Connecting with our emotions

10.1. The benefits of water and water fasting

Participant: Yeah thank you. My second question should be much quicker. Water fasting; is it very helpful for connecting in with your emotions?

Well the drinking of water is essential for the connection of your emotions. My spirit friends have often recommended to me to drink more than six litres of water every day and at the moment I probably manage about four litres of water a day. While we're travelling it's a bit hard because you have to stop every half an hour or fifteen minutes or something (Laughs). But you see emotion is conducted through water so the flow of emotion is certainly going to be assisted by the more that you drink. If you go onto water fasting, you've got to start asking yourself the question as to why, what's the underlying purpose? For a lot of people it's about punishment of themselves or restricting themselves from having something they enjoy. And we must come to understand that if we love ourselves, we are not going to do that to ourselves. So while it may have a temporary role in assisting us, we are far better off I feel to have a regular process where every single day we drink four to six litres of water. [00:37:20.13]

Participant: I'm drinking about six to eight litres of water. I've been doing that for the last few months and I've tried water fasting for about four days recently and I guess I'm just wanting some confirmation to see if it actually is useful to do it every now and then because I have really struggled with connecting with emotions.

It will help you, but it will not help you as much as working through your barriers to connecting with your emotions will. So in other words...

Participant: Fears.

Yeah, working through your fears because it's always the fears that dictate everything. So it is far more powerful to address your fears and your addictions than it is to drink more water.

Participant: Yeah that makes sense.

However drinking more water will assist you to face your addictions and your fears.

Participant: So bring them all in together.

Yes.

Participant: Thank you.

Mary: Often it's tempting to do something externally to force ourselves emotionally when in the end even if we achieve some connection with emotion by forcing ourselves through a situation or restricting something in our lives, in the end we're still left with the barrier that was there in the first place that we're going to have to get over every time. So I found it requires patience and often I get very impatient with myself, but it's more effective to actually sit with the resistance, sit with the fear and be real about it and know that I'm going to have to get through this if I want emotional freedom all of the time.

10.2. Working through blockages to emotion

So if we can illustrate that from a perspective of what it looks like, let's say here is the point where we've actually cleared of emotion, whatever the emotion is, and here is the point where we are right now. In between we have are our blocks to the dealing with the emotion.

Mary: So that's our false beliefs about what it is to be emotional, the fears that we have, what's going to happen when I'm emotional, how are people going to treat me when I'm emotional, I'm going to feel out of control when I'm emotional. All of those things.

And then here is the actual emotion that's going to heal us, which is always usually grief-related.

Often we try to skip around our blocks to experience our grief and clear our emotions

Now what the majority of us try to do is we try to do this - skip over the block to go straight to grief. Now you may be successful sometimes in doing this but the problem is, as Mary just said, the block remains. So that means that every single time you do it, you're going to have to do this skip over the block to get to grief, and that's going to get more and more difficult as time goes on. Some of the grief will come up but the real grief that's covered by lots of blocks, the fears and the different addictions and so forth, are not going to be exposed. [00:40:09.16]

What we need to learn to do emotionally, and remember this is an emotional not an intellectual process, is we need to emotionally go through the block to get to the grief. And that's what most people get very frustrated with because the blocks are very difficult to emotionally go through, but we need to emotionally go through them to release them.

We need to feel through our blockages to get to our grief and clear our emotions

You see once we emotionally go through the block, it's like having the block no longer there. Once that occurs, what's natural will be immediate experience of the grief. And that's why it's so important to actually emotionally address the blockages.

Once we remove our blocks we will immediately experience our grief

Now the majority of people don't like doing that because it seems to be a slower process. However I put to you if you have the block there and you keep on going around it, you're never really getting to the full extent of the grief and so therefore this process while it might seem partially successful, in the long run it's going to result in longer processing because you've still got the blockages stopping the full grief from ever coming out. Once these blockages are released, and as Mary said they are fears, belief systems from our childhood that have entered us emotionally, all of those things, once we start knocking on their door and getting into those, now we'll be released from that blockage and so the underlying grief that's inside of us will just come out naturally.

So I don't get very stressed out about my processing at all in terms of what I do. All I do is I focus most of my attention not on the grief itself because at the moment I know I've got grief still inside of me to feel, I focus my intention on what am I blocking? What are the blocks to it? Because I know that once I get rid of the blocks, the grief will just flow out naturally. I don't have to worry about it happening; I don't have to force it to happen.

10.3. Recognising our blockages to feeling emotion

Participant: How do you recognise your blocks?

There are some great ways of recognising your blocks. Firstly every time you have anger, there is a block of some kind. Go and find what the addiction is because every time there is an addiction, there is a block and when we don't get our addiction met, we revert to anger. Every time we've experienced pleasure that seems to result from an addictive behaviour, that's also covering a block.

So I would examine that and all of these things cover our fears. So any time I recognise a fear within myself, I know that there's a block associated with it that's blocking something. [00:43:04.28]

So they are the emotions I focus myself on and the way you recognise your fears is every time you feel like you want to get away from something and every time you want to avoid something, there your fears are right there and we just need to recognise them. Every time that you feel a bit annoyed, a bit frustrated, a bit angry, there are your addictions right there. We just need to recognise them, that's the fastest way to actually recognise the blocks.

We need to feel them. So we have to feel our addiction. It's like a smoker sitting down and deciding he's going to feel the feeling that he has of wanting to have a cigarette. Instead of just getting up and having one, he's going to sit there and feel what it feels like to not have one. And he'll very rapidly get into some emotions if he does that.

And we need to do the same with all of our emotions; we need to feel the actual addictive emotion that we have. "I just badly, badly want that person to make me feel good." You feel it and you allow yourself to feel it and as you feel it you'll connect with why. When you connect with why, they'll be childhood issues related to that and then underneath that the grief is just sitting there waiting to just pop out whenever we allow ourselves to feel the block. So that would be my recommendation to most people.

Don't focus so much on the grief; focus more on the blocks to the grief because the grief will just come out of you automatically once there are no blocks to it doing so. Many of us are carrying around huge amounts of grief and it just needs the lid on the top of it to come off and it will just come out naturally. Just like it would have if we were a child; it would have come out naturally then if we were allowed to grieve, and it will when we're an adult as well. [00:45:03.08]

11. Incarnation of the two soul halves

Participant: Following on from some of the soulmate and soul separation questions, if say a soul's chosen to incarnate into a body and half of its going somewhere, when and where does the other half go? I mean how... is it all... you know linear in time, is it at the same time? I mean time, its different here than in other dimensions.

I understand the question. So the soul is complete before it incarnates, and when it incarnates it incarnates into two the halves.

The soul splits into two when it incarnates

There will be one half of the soul that incarnates first; it will usually be a half of the soul that is more what you would call investigative in its nature. So part of the personality gets split as well and the part that's more investigative in its nature will probably incarnate first. The other half will just follow around that half on the Earth plane. It then has a very strong desire to incarnate as well and it will just follow around the other half until nearby there is a couple who are having sex who draw this soul to them and it has to match personality. There are a lot of laws involved; it has to match personality requirements that will trigger the emotions, the unhealed emotions, and the desires of the parents. So it has to match a lot of the parent's emotions and everything in terms of triggering them and affecting them. But there are a lot of laws involved, but rather than going into each individual law, it just follows the half of the soul around that's already incarnated until it finds an appropriate receptacle to incarnate to and then it does, and usually that happens within a few years. In extreme cases it might happen within twenty years of each other. [00:47:07.08]

Participant: Thank you.

12. Closing Words

We have to actually finish because otherwise we're going to get kicked out.

Thank you very much for your time today guys and we look forward to seeing you again at some point in the future. (Applause) Thank you.

Appendix: The Human Soul – True Spirituality Seminar Outline

###  Introduction

Discussions & Meetings With People

Mary and I get to travel the world to discuss spiritual matters with groups and individuals

True Spirituality supports the improvement of the soul's condition

Many claim they are spiritual, but their life demonstrates the lack of True Spirituality

Alternate Title

Embrace Spirituality That Makes Sense

### What is True-Spirituality?

True Spirituality

Is any form of spiritual development that changes the heart condition of the individual and causes us to develop more in love, truth and humility, and allows us to receive Divine Love from God, which transforms the soul without limit

True Spirituality changes the core emotional self, and all actions that result from that change are natural and do not need to be forced or created by facade

### True Spirituality vs Pseudo Spirituality

Attributes of True Spirituality

Simple, easy to understand

Logical, everything makes sense

Grounded, relevant in day-to-day life

Real, without facade

Raw, unedited

Confronts fears & grief

Meaningful, always causes change

Truly emotional

Grounded in real feelings

Powerful, always forces decisions

Soul condition grows irreversibly

Unifying, draws all to itself

Appeals to the hearts of all, but few embrace

Appeals to truth in all circumstances

Humble, requires passion for true self

Down to earth, forces the soul into reality

Promotes equality in relationships

God-reliant, accepts & trusts God's Laws

God glorifying, creates awareness of God

Challenges addictions

Satisfies the soul

Loving, brings love to all souls

We feel good through Love, Truth & Humility

Freely available without monetary demand

Promotes God and God's Truths

Has substance rather than just words

Promotes love from the heart that never fails, that is courageous, strong

Promotes truth in all circumstances and situations, that satisfies the soul's desire

Promotes humility, and prevents pride and arrogance from ever developing

Attributes of Pseudo Spirituality

Complex, requires intellectual concentration

Illogical, little makes sense

Mystical & mysterious, flaky & irrelevant

Fake, promotes & loves facade

Embellished, frilly, polished & marketed

Panders to fear & grief

Shallow, no-one has to change

Intellectual, condemns feeling

Emotionally histrionic, enjoys fake expression

Weak, light & airy, promotes indecision

Metaphysical, no soul condition improvement

Exclusive, creates groups & cliques

Appeals to the hearts of few, but many follow

Appeals to error, injury & addictions

Arrogant, denies true self & true condition

Self-righteous, inflates the soul into denial

Promotes hierarchy in relationships

Self-reliant, we become a law unto ourselves

Self-glorifying, promotes self interest

Promotes addictions

Gratifies the animal

Hurtful, "loves" only a few

We feel good through spirit attachment

Requires payment for all services

Promotes self & ownership of knowledge

Uses the words without substance

### Being Honest With Self

To know whether we are involved in True Spirituality, we need to truthfully examine the effects of the spirituality in our personal lives, and if the entire world embraced the form of spirituality, whether the entire world would benefit, or rather, degrade in its condition.

### True Spirituality Promotes Free Will & Removes Spirit Influence

Attributes of True Spirituality

Requires our real self involvement

Requires & causes true soul development

Exposes addictions to "fake" conditions, such as conditions assisted by spirits, conditions assisted by addictive emotional states, conditions of complete over-cloaking by spirit entities

Helps us confront our emotional, sexual, and physical addictions, such as our addiction to power, control, glory, attention, approval, purpose, specialness, knowledgeableness etc

Removes dependency on external spiritual influences to feel good, or whole

Exposes the bribery, threats, and blackmails that spirits use to keep us under their control and meet their desires and addictions. Exposes co-dependent relationships with spirit entities.

Promotes connection to God directly without interference or intermediaries

Attributes of Pseudo Spirituality

Promotes our facade & fake involvement, and requires little knowledge of our real self

Promotes fake development of the physical or meta-physical, while generally ignoring the real soul condition

Hides or promotes addictions to "fake" conditions, either hides external spirit entity involvement or loves and champions the metaphysical experience above the soul development in humility, truth and love

Helps us hide or live in our emotional, sexual, and spiritual addictions. Addicted to using spirits to make the individual feel good, powerful, special, sexual, whole, in control

Promotes dependency on external spiritual influences & desires spirits to provide energy & experiences for the purpose of comfort & reassurance, to feel good or whole

Helps us live in and avoid threats and blackmails by spirit entities, by encouraging the enjoyment of the co-dependent relationship with those spirit entities

Promotes the interference of our relationship with God through having closer relationships with spirit entities and intermediaries

### True Spirituality Heals Sexual Addictions

Attributes of True Spirituality

Looks for reasons and beliefs to expose the sexual addiction

Eg. We want to confront our sexual shame, and feel it, so that we no longer feel sexual suppression, and we choose a form of spirituality that exposes sexual suppression.

Eg. When want to confront our sexual addictions, we refuse to live in the sexual addictions and portraying ourselves to real, rather than a fake "holy and pure" facade

Looks for reasons and beliefs to help us expose our sexual addiction. Does not assist us to live in our sexual addictions.

Eg. We do not use belief systems to promote sexually overt immoral unloving behaviour, and we choose a form of spirituality that is the vehicle that exposes sexual addiction without judgement

Demonstrates a desire to replace sexual injuries with pure sexual expression in harmony with God's original intentions

Eg. We are constantly looking towards God's original intention in Her design of our body and soul when it comes to sexual expression, rather than using our beliefs to justify sexual expression that is harmful or unloving to ourselves or others

### The World's Aversion To True Spirituality

True Spirituality Requires:

Requires humility and self-honesty

Requires connection to emotion and feelings

Requires love from the heart, not just from the mind, or from a facade

Requires courage to go against the general attitude of the world as it currently is

Requires confrontation of unhealed emotional conditions within the soul

Requires confrontation of fear

Requires our acceptance of God's Truth rather than our own

True Spirituality Satisfies:

The soul's deepest and fundamental emotional desires and longings

The mind's desire for logic, intellectual and philosophical simplicity

The desire for a relationship with God (because a true relationship with God is obtained)

The desire for a relationship with oneself (because we recognize and love our true self)

The desire for a relationship with our soulmate (because she/he is the other half of ourselves)

Every part of our life including our physical body, spiritual body, soul, relationships environment, and happiness all benefit and grow

### Conclusion

If we are going to be truly spiritual:

We must grow in humility, love and truth

Our heart must change, rather than just changing our actions with our mind or intellect

Our feelings and emotions must change, rather than just forcing our actions

Our actions will change and become completely natural rather than forced or façade based

We will be able to receive Divine Love from God

Remember

True Spirituality is any form of spiritual development that changes the heart condition of the individual and causes them to develop more in love, truth and humility, and allows them to receive Divine Love from God, which transforms the soul without limit

