GREG WILPERT: It's The Real News Network,
and I'm Greg Wilpert in Baltimore.Following
an antisemitic incident in which Yellow Vest
protesters in France accosted Jewish professor
Alain Finkelkraut, calling him a "dirty Zionist,"
France's president Emmanuel Macron seized
the opportunity to lash out against Yellow
Vest protests, which have been destabilizing
his administration.
He also used the incident to strengthen his
ties with the right wing government in Israel.
Upon addressing the Council of French Jewish
Institutions, Macron made the following comment.EMMANUEL
MACRON: Anti-Zionism is one of the modern
forms of antisemitism.
This is why I'm confirming that France, who,
as you reminded us, endorsed with its European
partners last December, will put forward the
definition of antisemitism as drawn by the
International Holocaust Remembrance Alliance.GREG
WILPERT: Macron does not seem to know, or
perhaps pretends not to know, that anti-Zionism
is as old as Zionism itself.
It started in the late 19th century when it
was, as it still is today, a mostly Jewish
movement that rejects the idea that immigration
and colonialism are the answer to racism towards
Jews.
In other words, anti-Zionism has been from
the very start a Jewish movement to combat
antisemitism.Joining me now to discuss Macron's
anti-Zionism legislation is Sonia Fayman.
She is a French Jew of both European and Arabic
descent who is a member of the organization
Union of French Jews for Peace, or UJFP, and
is also of the International Jewish anti-Zionist
network IJAN.
Thanks for joining us today, Sonia.SONIA FAYMAN:
Hello, yes.GREG WILPERT: In the election,
the presidential election, Macron's main opponent
was Marine Le Pen, who represents a party
with a long tradition of antisemitism.
But at the same time, she's also a pro-Israel--that
is, her party is also a pro-Israeli party,
and Le Pen herself is pro-Zionist.
Do you think that Macron is equating anti-Zionism
and antisemitism because he's trying to get
the votes of the French people on the far
right, who might hate Jews but love the state
of Israel?SONIA FAYMAN: Well, yes.
I think, obviously, this equation he's making
is related to the competition he's engaged
in with Marine Le Pen for the next elections,
presidential elections.
And while it's true that this party has a
long history of antisemitism, but Marine Le
Pen, contrary to her father, has been trying
to claim her party is not antisemitic and
she is a friend of Israel.
That's right.Well, so Macron's denounciation
of antisemitism and anti-Zionism as the new
form of anti-Semitism aims at winning the
favor of Zionists and Israel.
But at the same time, and this expression,
at the same time, is one of his favorites.
He can be courting the far right, since Marine
Le Pen is also a [friend of Israel], both
reasons are working.
Everybody now knows the state of Israel has
friendly relations with antisemitic parties
and states led by notorious antisemites, like
in Hungary, Austria, Poland, and others.So
to Macron it's important to be in a good place
within the Western alliance against so-called
terrorism; that is, Iran, Hezbollah, and Palestinians.
There are several reasons.
But certainly, he's trying to court people
who are willing to vote for Marine Le Pen.GREG
WILPERT: Now, Macron also mentions the International
Holocaust Remembrance Alliance definition
of antisemitism, which has a very problematic
text full of contradictions, and which was
recently amended to include examples that
focus not on antisemitism, but rather on criticisms
against the state of Israel.
What is the position of French Jews on the
left, especially UJFP, to the International
Holocaust Remembrance Alliance definition
of antisemitism?SONIA FAYMAN: Yes, we are
very much against this definition.
And it's been some time that the IHRA is trying
to pass this definition.
It's being debated in the EU.
And along with the solidarity movement with
Palestine, we denounced--we've been denouncing
this attempt.
And as part of EJJP, which is European Jews
for a Just Peace, which is gathering several
movements, several organizations, in European
countries.
We have been criticizing this these definitions,
especially because it's aiming at preventing
people to criticize Israel and Israeli politics.So
we are taking a stand against this definition,
and also against the European Jewish Association,
who issued a plan to have this definition
officialized in the EU.
And as part of the EJJP, we support the lobby
group of EJJP, which met several political
representatives and EU Commission officials.
And now it has sent a letter to all of them
all of them taking a stand against the European
Jewish Association plan.
And the letter reads the plan is contrary
to the fundamental right to freedom of speech,
to the right of [MPs] and political parties
to criticize Israel, and to support legal
civil society activities putting pressure
on Israel to make it comply with international
law.
So that's our point on this definition, where
many groups are trying to to criminalize anti-Zionism.GREG
WILPERT: Now, in legal and practical terms,
what does Macron's initiative mean?
Will there be new laws to criminalize criticisms
of the state of Israel in France, and will
anti-Zionist organizations become outlawed?SONIA
FAYMAN: Well, first of all, we should consider
what the objectives are in such a project.
And there are at least three of them.
First of all, it seeks to tighten the links
with Iran.
And I've been already mentioning that.
Secondly, it's a way of smearing the ongoing
Gilets Jaunes movement, this movement which
has been lasting since last November, where
lower middle class and lower class people
are protesting in the streets in Paris, and
many other cities, to have justice in the
tax system.
And globally they want Macron to [inaudible],
as they would say.
They don't want Macron anymore.
And the government has been putting out a
very fierce repression, police repression,
during these protests.So speaking of antisemitism
and criminalizing anti-Zionism is a way--and
even if they would legalize this ban, that
would be a way of criminalizing, also, the
Gilets Jaunes, saying that they are antisemitic.
And the third reason is to leave aside other
minorities like the Arabs and blacks while
accusing them to be very antisemitic, with
the idea--this idea they have been bringing
up new antisemitism.
And that notion has been proved nonscientific
and groundless.So I don't think this legalization
would happen, although there is much support
for development within the government, and
some powerful Zionist organizations, like
[name inaudible].
They rely upon a particular guilt which is
generated from World War II, during which
there was this collaboration between France
and Nazi Germany.
And since then there is that kind of taboo
about antisemitism.
But furthermore, they play with that conflation
between antisemitism and anti-Zionism, which
is really rooted in the way Israel has been
built as a state.I want to recall historian
Joseph Massad, a Palestinian historian who
recalls that
by the time of the foundation of the state
of Israel at the end of the 40s, and beginning
of the '50s, they needed more colonization
of Palestinian land.
So the Zionists began to recall their colonial
projects, as we say, and as anti-colonial,
and the Palestinian resistance as antisemitic.
And since then--and you've been saying that
in the introduction--that since the beginning
of Zionism, anti-Zionism existed as well,
and that the majority of the Jewish population
worldwide was mainly anti-Zionist at the beginning.So
since then, Zionists target all critics of
Israel settler colonialism as anti-Zionist.
They consciously conflate Israel with all
Jews worldwide, even though a majority of
Jews live outside Israel and are not Zionists.
And through this way they can claim that condemning
Israel is attacking Jews.
But even within the government and Macron's
party, there are people who will clearly say
that Zionism and anti-Zionism are political
opinions, whereas antisemitism is a form of
racism, and as so is criminalized.
This point of view seems to be quite largely
shared.GREG WILPERT: OK.
Well, we're going to have to leave it there
for now.
I was speaking to Sonia Fayman of the organization
Union of French Jews for Peace.
Thanks again, Sonia, for having joined us
today.SONIA FAYMAN: Thank you.GREG WILPERT:
And thank you for joining The Real News Network.
