SPOKE OUT TO SAY HE HOPES THE
PRESIDENT CONTINUES TO USE HIS
CLEMENCY POWER TO SAVE LIVES.
>> Sandra: HERE NOW,
MIKE HUCKABEE, FORMER GOVERNOR
OF THE STATE OF ARKANSAS,
FOX NEWS CONTRIBUTOR AND HOST OF
"HUCKABEE" ON SATURDAY AND
SUNDAY NIGHTS ON TBN.
I KNOW THIS IS AN ISSUE AND NOW
A STORY THAT IS VERY NEAR AND
DEAR TO YOUR HEART.
DID YOU AGREE WITH THIS MOVE BY
THE PRESIDENT?
>> I REALLY DID, SANDRA.
AND I APPRECIATE KIM KARDASHIAN
WEST FOR USING HER CELEBRITY FOR
SOMETHING THAT DOES GOOD.
I UNDERSTAND A LOT OF PEOPLE
WANT TO LOCK FOLKS UP AND KEEP
THEM THERE FOREVER, BUT 22 YEARS
FOR A FIRST TIME, NONVIOLENT
OFFENDER?
THERE ARE A LOT OF PEOPLE ACROSS
AMERICA THAT HAVE MURDERED
PEOPLE THAT WILL NEVER SERVE
EVEN A THIRD OF THAT AMOUNT OF
TIME.
MY PRESENT DIRECTOR IN ARKANSAS,
LARRY NORIS, USED TO SAY, WE
LOCK A LOT OF PEOPLE UP THAT WE
ARE MAD AT, RATHER THAN THE ONES
WE ARE AFRAID OF.
THE FACT IS, OVER $33,000 PER
YEAR PER INMATE, AVERAGE, WHICH
COULD BE A SOMETIMES AS MUCH AS
75 OR 80,000 PER YEAR IS NOT
WORKING.
IT'S NOT HELPING US RESOLVE THE
CRIME PROBLEM.
THE TRUTH IS, SANDRA, WE DON'T
HAVE A CRIME PROBLEM SO MUCH AS
A DRUG AND ALCOHOL PROBLEM.
A LOT OF THE PEOPLE WE
INCARCERATE NEED TO BE IN
TREATMENT CENTERS.
I APPLAUD THE PRESIDENT BECAUSE
IT TOOK A LOT OF GUTS FOR HIM TO
DO THIS.
THERE IS NEVER, EVER AS A
POLITICAL UPSIDE TO GRANTING ANY
TYPE OF CLEMENCY VIET
COMMUTATION WERE A PART IN.
>> Sandra: IT'S FASCINATING
AND CAPTURING THE ATTENTION OF
THE NATION.
IT LOOKS LIKE THE PRESIDENT
LOOKS LIKE HE'S GOING ON THIS
HIGH PROFILE CLEMENCY SPREE.
HE'S TALKING ABOUT MORE PARDONS
AND COMMUTING ALICE JOHNSON.
WHAT DO YOU THINK THE GOAL IS OF
THE PRESIDENT?
WHAT IS HE LOOKING TO ACHIEVE AS
THE BIG PICTURE?
>> Mike: I THINK TWO THINGS,
ONE, HE'S LOOKING AT EACH CASE
INDIVIDUALLY WHICH IS EXACTLY
WITH THE EXECUTIVE BRANCH SHOULD
DO.
THEY SHOULD NEVER SAY, BLANK IT.
I'M ISSUING A COMMUTATIONS.
YOU HAVE TO LOOK AT EVERY CASE
INDIVIDUALLY.
BUT HE'S ALSO POINTING OUT SOME
OF THE TOTAL FAILURES IN OUR
CRIMINAL JUSTICE SYSTEM AND
SENTENCING GUIDELINES.
IT WAS VERY POPULAR A FEW YEARS
AGO, IF YOU SAID THAT AT A
ROTARY MEETING, YOU GOT A LOT OF
APPLAUSE.
BUT IT WAS ONE OF THE DUMBEST
MOVES WE'VE EVER MADE AND IT
COSTS NOT ONLY AN ENORMOUS
AMOUNT OF MONEY BUT IT RUINED OF
THE LIVES OF PEOPLE WHO HAD NO
BUSINESS BEING IN PRISON FOR
LIFE, FOR LET'S SAY THREE OR
$400 THEFTS.
IT'S DISPROPORTIONATE TO THE
CRIME COMMITTED.
>> Sandra: I WANT TO GET THIS
IN HERE, AS WE CONTINUE TO LEARN
UP MORE ABOUT WHO ALICE MARIE
JOHNSON IS.
53 YEARS OLD AND WE ARE BEING
TOLD THAT SHE OFFICIALLY AND HAS
BEEN RELEASED FROM THE FEDERAL
PRISON.
SHE WAS SERVING A LIFE SENTENCE.
IT'S A REMARKABLE STORY.
WITHOUT POSSIBILITY OF PAROLE,
AT A CORRECTIONAL INSTITUTION IN
THE STATE OF ALABAMA.
MOTHER OF FIVE, GREAT
GRANDMOTHER OF SIX AND A
GREAT-GREAT-GRANDMOTHER OF ONE
AND SHE HAS NOW WALKED OUT OF
THAT FEDERAL PRISON.
>> Mike: AND I'M GLAD SHE HAS.
THINK ABOUT THIS, LIFE WITHOUT
PAROLE.
THAT IS THE KIND OF SENTENCE YOU
GIVE TO PEOPLE WHO HAVE
COMMITTED MASS MURDER.
THAT'S A KIND OF SENTENCE YOU
GIVE TO PEOPLE WHO HAVE CREATED
A SAVAGE COP KILLING.
BUT FOR A NONVIOLENT, FIRST-TIME
DRUG TRAFFICKING CHARGE?
I'M NOT SAYING IT'S NOT SERIOUS
TO TRAFFIC DRUGS BUT I AM SAYING
THAT THE BEST WAY TO DEAL WITH A
DRUG PROBLEM IS NOT JUST TO LOCK
PEOPLE UP AND THROW AWAY THE KEY
COME AND SPEND THE TAXPAYERS
MONEY.
IT MIGHT BE TO PUT THOSE PEOPLE
IN TREATMENT PROGRAMS AND THEN
RECOGNIZE THAT THERE IS NO
LONG-TERM ADVANTAGE TO JUST
LOCKING PEOPLE UP AND MAKING
SURE THEY ARE CAGED FOR THE REST
OF THEIR LIVES.
>> Sandra: I'M SORRY TO CUT
YOU OFF, BUT AT THE SAME TIME,
THIS IS AN ADMINISTRATION, TO BE
CLEAR, THAT HAS SHOWN TO BE VERY
TOUGH ON CRIME.
AND I SAY THAT, AS WE NOW KNOW
THAT JARED KUSHNER, THE
PRESIDENT'S SON-IN-LAW, MET
SEVERAL TIMES WITH
MISS KARDASHIAN LEADING UP TO
THIS, IN THE MONTHS TO LEADING
UP TO HER RELEASE FROM PRISON.
>> Mike: THERE ARE SOME THINGS
FOR WHICH PEOPLE SHOULD BE
LOCKED UP FOR LIFE, THERE ARE
SOME CRIMES THAT      THAT ARE H
SOME CRIMES THAT      THAT ARE I
SOME CRIMES THAT      THAT ARE O
SOME CRIMES THAT      THAT ARE S
SOME CRIMES THAT      THAT ARE .
I HAD TO CARRY IT OUT AS
GOVERNOR.
I DIDN'T ENJOY IT, BUT THERE ARE
SOME CRIMES FOR WHICH THAT IS AN
APPROPRIATE ADJUDICATION.
BUT YOU CAN'T JUST GO AROUND AND
PUT EVERYONE IN A LOCK UP.
SO WHAT YOU DO, YOU HAVE TO
REALIZE THAT WHEN PEOPLE COME
OUT AS A FELON COME UP THEY
CAN'T EVEN GET A JOB EMPTYING A
BEDPAN IN A NURSING HOME BECAUSE
WE HAVE CREATED BACKGROUND
CHECKS THAT SAY, IF YOU HAVE A
CONVICTION, MOST JOBS HE WILL
NEVER BE ABLE TO DO.
HOW DOES THAT HELP US IN THE
LONG TERM?
THE TRUTH IS, IT DOESN'T.
>> Sandra: FASCINATING STUFF,
AND I'M SURE WE WILL LEARN MORE
ABOUT THESE WOMEN.
THOSE WILL LIVE ON FOREVER.
