AMNA NAWAZ: At the end of March, the United
Kingdom is supposed to leave the European
Union, nearly three years after British voters
approved Brexit.
But, in Scotland, most of the electorate voted
against leaving.
Enter Scotland's first minister, Nicola Sturgeon.
She's now trying to chart a course for Scotland
in circumstances she can't entirely control.
Today, she brought her case to Washington.
With just seven weeks left until the United
Kingdom is due to leave the European Union,
Scottish First Minister Nicola Sturgeon is
raising the alarm.
She spoke today at Georgetown University in
Washington, D.C.
NICOLA STURGEON, Scottish First Minister:
The U.K. is simply not remotely prepared to
leave the E.U. in 53 days' time.
And that's been obvious for a while now.
So the U.K. government should ask the E.U.
to agree to put back the planned date for
Brexit.
AMNA NAWAZ: Sturgeon is one of Brexit's harshest
critics, and recently joined those calling
for a second Brexit referendum.
NICOLA STURGEON: I think the only credible
option for the U.K. now is to put this back
to the electorate.
The government Parliament has failed, and
we can't go on hoping for the unicorn to appear
out of nowhere.
AMNA NAWAZ: In the first referendum, over
60 percent of Scots voted to remain in the
E.U.
That followed a 2014 vote in which Scots voted
against Scottish independence, partly due
to benefits from Britain's membership in the
E.U.
But Sturgeon said Scottish voices have since
been sidelined and ignored.
MAN: Order!
AMNA NAWAZ: For now, the Brexit process is
in chaos.
The deal British Prime Minister Theresa May
negotiated with the E.U. was rejected by Parliament.
May returns to Brussels next week in a bid
to renegotiate.
But time is running out.
And every day, the clock ticks closer to Britain
crashing out, leaving the E.U. with no transition
period and no deal.
That possibility has the United Kingdom, including
Scotland, bracing for what comes next.
I sat down with First Minister Sturgeon earlier
today.
First Minister, thank you so much for making
the time to speak with us.
NICOLA STURGEON: You're welcome.
AMNA NAWAZ: So, you have said today the U.K.
is not remotely prepared to leave the E.U.
on March 29.
So, in the absence of a deal, what is your
priority?
Do you want to see an extension of that deadline,
or would you like to see another referendum
on if or how to leave the E.U.?
NICOLA STURGEON: What has to happen now, regardless
of what else happens, in my view, is that
there should be a request for an extension.
And, actually, I think that should happen
whether there is a deal or not.
Probably, the U.K. doesn't have time now to
do all the legislative steps it needs to do
in order to prepare for leaving the E.U.,
because it's taken so long to get to a deal,
and it hasn't even got to that stage yet.
So, increasingly, I think an extension is
required, regardless of what then happens
after that.
AMNA NAWAZ: Do you think there's any chance
that by the deadline any kind of deal is reached?
NICOLA STURGEON: Well, there's a chance a
deal will be reached by the deadline.
But it's certainly possible that there will
be a deal -- even if there is a deal, there
is a question of whether the U.K. can then
take all of the practical steps necessary
to put that in place, to allow Brexit to happen
on the 29th of March.
But if there's not a deal, and it looks like
the U.K. could leave without a deal, that
would be catastrophic, and in those circumstances,
certainly asking for an extension should be
infinitely preferable to a allowing a no deal
Brexit to occur.
AMNA NAWAZ: You say catastrophic.
Explain to me, what do you think the ramifications
would be for Scotland if the U.K. were to
crash out of the E.U. without a deal in place?
What would happen?
NICOLA STURGEON: Well, much of how the U.K.,
not just Scotland, but much of how the U.K.
trades right now is dependent on the European
rules and regulations.
The ability of planes to fly from the U.K.
across different European countries is dependent
on E.U. rules and regulations, issues like
medicine supplies.
So, across almost every aspect of life, it
would be very difficult for us to get goods
to market.
It would be difficult for in the short term
for us to import goods.
That's why there are lots of concerns in the
U.K. about potential food shortages if there
is no deal, medicine shortages, and lots of
contingency planning has been done to try
to mitigate against that.
And all of that really reinforces the view
that it would be an abdication of responsibility
for any government to allow that situation
to transpire.
AMNA NAWAZ: So, you mentioned contingencies.
We should point out, in the recent weeks,
that the Scottish Parliament has been rushing
through dozens of pieces of legislation to
specifically to do that, to try to protect
Scottish interests in the case that there
isn't a deal...
NICOLA STURGEON: Right.
AMNA NAWAZ: ... by the deadline.
Tell me a little bit about what those interests
are that you're trying to protect and to what
degree those do protect Scottish interests.
How far do those go?
NICOLA STURGEON: If there is no deal, then
the day after we leave, almost the minute
we leave, all of the rules and regulations
that govern how we trade and interact with
the European Union cease to have any effect.
Now, there's a lot of work being done to replace
European laws with domestic laws.
There's a lot of contingency planning under
way to try to mitigate some of the worst impacts
of that.
But it's not going to be possible to completely
mitigate the impacts of that, which is why
no deal should simply not be allowed to happen.
AMNA NAWAZ: Some folks will say, the longer
the uncertainty around Brexit goes on, it
benefits you to some degree, as someone who
said that you're willing to call for another
independence referendum, which Scotland had
back in 2014.
The majority voted against it, right, voted
against independence.
Why would you be willing to call for that
vote again?
What makes you think the result would be any
different today than it was in 2014?
NICOLA STURGEON: Well, I will come to that
in a second, but let me take the premise of
your question that somehow it is in my interest
for there to be chaos and uncertainty in the
U.K.
I mean, it's really not, because if that chaos
and uncertainty harms the U.K., by extension,
by definition, it harms people in Scotland
as well.
And I don't want to see that happen.
But to your question of why should there be
another independence referendum in Scotland,
well, if you think back to 2014, when we had
the independence referendum, the campaign
that argued against independence, the premise
of their argument was that the U.K. was a
partnership of equal nations, that we all
had an equal say.
There was also an argument in that referendum
that, if Scotland became independent, we'd
get thrown out of the European Union and have
to reapply for membership.
Fast-forward four years, and Scotland's interests
and voice within the U.K. is being ignored.
We voted not to leave the E.U., and yet we
face being taken out anyway.
And that's all happening because we're not
independent, because we don't have the ability
to take our own decisions and make our own
voice heard.
So circumstances have changed materially since
2014.
And when the time is right for Scotland to
look again at the question of independence,
I think would be the right thing to allow
it to do.
AMNA NAWAZ: When do you think that time would
be right?
NICOLA STURGEON: Well, I think we have to
follow the process that is currently under
way to reach some conclusion.
What that conclusion will be remains to be
seen.
And then take a decision based on a calm consideration
of what's in Scotland's best interests.
And that's what I would do.
So I'm not going to say right know what I
think the best timing would be.
AMNA NAWAZ: You have said before though, First
Minister, that Scottish interests have been
ignored in the Brexit process.
You said that your parliamentary powers have
been eroded.
Why not just go ahead and call for an independence
referendum now, if you think that Scottish
interests have already suffered?
NICOLA STURGEON: Clearly, if people in Scotland
are being asked, given the opportunity to
look again at the independence question, they
have a right to have as much information as
possible about what -- if Scotland chooses
to be independent, what our relationships
will be with the rest of the U.K. and with
Europe.
And some of the answers to those questions
inevitably depend on the Brexit outcome to
some extent.
And, therefore, I think it's in the interest
of allowing an informed decision to be taken
about independence that we allow some of that
clarity to emerge.
Brexit is a good example of what happens when
people take, in some respects, an uninformed
decision about a big change.
And when people, as I believe they will in
due course, opt for Scotland to be an independent
country, that should be on the basis of a
genuinely informed decision about all of the
implications and consequences.
AMNA NAWAZ: While you're here in the U.S.,
I do want to ask you about the American president,
Donald Trump.
You have been a critic of his policies before.
You called some of his previous comments abhorrent.
I think, even in your -- in your remarks today,
you quoted former President Obama, but did
not reference President Trump.
I know you're not meeting with him on this
trip.
Are there any plans to meet with him?
And what is the message that you would hope
to deliver?
NICOLA STURGEON: Well, firstly, I would never
rule out meeting with President Trump.
The fact that we disagree -- and I think we
disagree on lots of things and I take a very
different view on many things to President
Trump -- shouldn't get in the way of the fact
that, as long as I'm first minister and he's
president, the interests of our countries
mean that sometimes we would have to talk
and meet.
So, I certainly would not take a position
of ruling that out.
I think he's probably a bit preoccupied with
the State of the Union address tomorrow night
for me to meet him on this trip.
He is somebody who has business interests
in Scotland.
His mother was Scottish.
So I'm sure we will see him in Scotland again
over the next period.
But my message is, the ties between Scotland
and the United States are longstanding, and
they are very strong, and they're very important
to Scotland.
And regardless of the personality of the president
or the first minister at any given time, it's
strengthening and deepening those economic
and social and cultural and family links that
we should concentrate on, and not allow political
disagreements between two leaders to get in
the way of that.
AMNA NAWAZ: First Minister of Scotland Nicola
Sturgeon, thank you very much for your time.
NICOLA STURGEON: Thank you.
