MANDY WAITE: Welcome to Google
Developers Live Presents Women
Tech Makers, today from
Campus London.
My name's Mandy Waite.
I'm a developer advocate for
the Google Cloud platform.
EZE VIDRA: And I'm Eze Vidra.
And I'm the head of
Campus London.
We have Sue here today,
Dr. Black.
SUE BLACK: Hello, hi.
MANDY WAITE: Yes.
So quick introduction of Sue.
Dr. Sue Black is an
award-winning computer
scientist, an inspiration--
an inspiring and passionate
leader--
we should have rehearsed
this--
who excels at bringing
people together to
solve complex issues.
She's a senior research
associate at the Department of
Computer Science at the
University College London, UK.
She has been instrumental in
championing awareness of and
support for Bletchley
Park, and has
recently become a trustee.
Keen to champion women in
computing, Sue set up the
BCSWomen online network in 2001,
and has recently become
a strategic adviser for ACM-W.
Sue also sits on the UK
Foreign Secretaries Group on
freedom of expression.
Passionate about computer
science and its benefits to
individuals, organizations,
and the economy, Sue has
recently set up a nonprofit
organization called The 
Foundation to promote computing
to the public.
Sue is a frequent public
speaker, media savvy, and
social-media-holic.
SUE BLACK: Yes.
EZE VIDRA: Aren't we all?
So welcome, Sue.
SUE BLACK: Thank you.
Thanks very much.
EZE VIDRA: It's great to
have you here today.
SUE BLACK: Thank you.
EZE VIDRA: OK.
So we're going to start off
with some straightforward
questions about your background
and history in computing.
It would be really interesting
to find out what kind of
inspired you to go into computer
science and into
computing in general.
So I understand from reading
various articles and such like
you have a PhD in software
engineering.
SUE BLACK: Yes.
MANDY WAITE: You also started in
the CS path at [INAUDIBLE]
College.
But you did computer science
at South Bank University.
SUE BLACK: That's right.
MANDY WAITE: So what did you
first decide to actually
pursue an education in tech?
And what motivated you to
study computer science
specifically?
SUE BLACK: Well, I suppose to
start with, I guess-- someone
was asking me a while ago how
it was I first knew I was a
geek, so maybe that's kind of
a better place to start.
And thinking back, the first
time that I could think of was
when I was about seven or eight,
I used to save up all
my pocket money and buy math
textbooks with my pocket money
at the weekends.
So I guess that was one of the
first signs that I was
interested in this area.
Maths was always my best
subject at school.
And there wasn't really
computing at school, because
I'm really old.
There wasn't really computing
at school when I was there.
So I couldn't take
it at school.
When I was thinking about going
to university, I thought
of maths again.
So I studied maths
at [INAUDIBLE]
College.
And as part of that course,
we did a bit of
computing as well.
And I really liked
the programming.
I found it really interesting.
And in a much broader sense, I
suppose, I really have always
felt that technology and
computing is kind of the
subject of the future.
It's really exciting.
And it kind of enables you to
do so many things in so many
different areas.
So it doesn't really kind
of pin you down.
It kind of broadens out your
opportunities, I suppose.
So when I was choosing
a degree, I
could have chosen maths.
I was choosing between
maths and computing.
And I thought firstly that
computing is the future, which
I still believe.
And also I thought
it would help--
I'd be more likely to get a job
if I did computing than if
I did maths, which probably
isn't true, because I think,
you know, it's probably just
as easy to get a job with a
maths degree.
But I mean, that's kind
of how I got into it.
And then once I was studying
computing at university, I
really liked the research
aspect in my final year.
And that's kind of what led
me into doing a PhD.
And software engineering I think
is kind of the practical
side of computer science.
And I'm a very practical person,
so I think that's how
I ended up doing software
engineering.
MANDY WAITE: Excellent.
So was there ever any chance
you would do philosophy or
art, anything like that?
Was that--
SUE BLACK: Well, I didn't
actually think about it.
Yes.
Before I did the maths
course at [INAUDIBLE]
College, I did kind of think
around that whole area.
And actually, I did a return
to study course a long time
before that.
And we studied various different
subjects, and that
included like philosophy,
economics, English literature.
And I really did like the
politics and economics stuff
that we did.
So I could have gone that way,
but technology is the future,
so I didn't.
MANDY WAITE: So you're
a self-described
social media junkie.
SUE BLACK: Yes.
MANDY WAITE: It's kind of like
aren't we all nowadays.
It seems to be a big
part of life.
SUE BLACK: My name's Sue and
I'm a social-media-holic.
EZE VIDRA: This is rehab.
SUE BLACK: Good.
Good.
I'm glad I finally found it.
MANDY WAITE: So I've asked
this question of
a few people today.
How has social media
changed your life?
And has it improved your
life, do you think?
SUE BLACK: Yes.
Absolutely.
It really has changed my life.
I mean, in terms of finding
people that you can connect
with quite easily, Twitter was
kind of my intro, I suppose,
into the whole social
media thing.
And from being on Twitter for
not very long at all, I ended
up finding people or they found
me who are interested in
the same kind of things.
And that's kind of how the
Bletchley Park and social
media campaigning aspect
came about.
And now, you know, I mean with
Facebook and Google+, there's
so many social media conduits or
kind of channels that it's
wonderful in that you can really
find people that you
get on well with.
I quite often give the example,
as a computer science
academic, I go to conferences.
And so kind of around the world,
I know people in my
area that I want to go
down the pub with
and have a chat with.
So that's kind of a subset of
all the people that I meet in
the sort of computer
science academic
software engineering role.
What social media enables you to
do is to find those kind of
people, so the people I would
get along with, but they're
not in the same kind of
career path as me.
They might be in marketing or
any kind of career, basically,
because somehow, through social
media interaction--
I suppose mainly because
of search, really.
Because of search, you can find
people and people can
find you that have
shared interests.
And for me, sense of humor
is really important.
And so finding people with the
same sense of humor, you can
do that through social media.
So that's wonderful.
And personally, I've probably
got 50 to 100 friends that I
get on really well with who I
never would have met if it
weren't for social media.
So that's kind of
the plus side.
And also, of course, the
campaigning and kind of social
change, social media has
empowered loads of
people in that way.
So it's helped with
Bletchley Park.
But it's also helped with other
campaigns and the whole
Arab Spring, just that way of
connecting which just wasn't
there before.
EZE VIDRA: Can you give us an
example where social media
changed how you accomplish
things in your work or run a
campaign using social media
that was successful?
SUE BLACK: So you mean like
Bletchley Park as an example?
EZE VIDRA: Yes, for example.
SUE BLACK: Well, we've done
various things over the years
using social media.
And one example is because what
you can do is you can
find people that are interested
in the same things
as you, so obviously, Bletchley
Park specifically,
you can search for Bletchley
Park and see who's talking
about it using social media.
But also then if you've got
something about Bletchley Park
on your profile, other people
searching for Bletchley Park
can find you.
And so if you start
conversations with these
people, over time that builds up
into a community of people
that are not just interacting
with you, but interacting with
each other, which I think
is wonderful.
And so one example of where that
made a kind of concrete
difference was that with Kelsey
Griffin at Bletchley
Park and Professor Jonathan
Bowen at South Bank
University, we wrote a paper
about Bletchley Park which we
submitted to the museums in a
web conference in Denver a
couple of years ago.
And so we wrote the paper
and submitted it.
And the paper was accepted.
And then I realized that we
didn't have the funding to go
to the conference.
And I thought, oh, I've put
Bletchley Park in a situation
now where I'm trying to get
people to raise funds for
Bletchley Park but they're
now going to have to
pay for this to happen.
So I was kind of in a bit of
a quandary about what to do
about that.
And some great friends on
Twitter, this time, Paul
Clarke and Daren140--
gosh, I know people's Twitter
IDs, but I can't remember
their real names.
They're people I know
really well.
Sorry, Daren--
encouraged me to set up a
JustGiving account to help
fund our trips, so me and Kelsey
could go over to the
States to present this paper.
And so I kind of ummed and ahhed
about it for a while.
And then I thought,
I'll give it a go.
So I set up a JustGiving page.
And within two weeks, we raised
enough money, it's over
2,000 pounds, just from friends,
community people that
love Bletchley Park, through
Twitter for us to go to the
conference.
That's just one thing, but a
very specific thing that it
really did help with.
EZE VIDRA: Yes.
Very effective.
MANDY WAITE: So on the subject
of Bletchley Park, that's a
good lead into my
next question.
Bletchley Park was the home to
British code breakers during
the Second World War.
And thanks to their efforts and
the work that they did,
it's been said frequently that
it reduced the length of the
war by about two years, saved
millions of lives.
SUE BLACK: Yes.
11 million people a
year were dying.
MANDY WAITE: Yes.
Exactly.
So it's an amazing effort that
deserves a lot of recognition.
And Bletchley Park is a big part
of that, so it has huge
historical significance.
And thanks to all the
campaigning that you've done
with other people as well and
your continued support, it's
been preserved for our
national heritage.
You're a Bletchley
Park trustee now.
SUE BLACK: Yes.
MANDY WAITE: And you've talked
a lot on many occasions about
how the campaign initiated and
what it's done so far.
But what's next for
Bletchley Park?
What do we need to do
to continue the
momentum we have so far.
SUE BLACK: Well, the future is
very exciting for Bletchley.
We got I think 4.6 million from
Heritage Lottery last
year, which we've got match
funding for as well, so it's
about 6 million or 7 million
now being spent on
renovating the site.
And the idea is to kind of take
it back sympathetically
to like a 1940s feel, which
I think will be really
wonderful, because you know, if
you've been there, if you
just imagine going in and it
actually does seem like it's
1940, to me that-- oh,
I just can't wait
until it's like that.
So that money's for specific
renovations.
But there's a 26-acre
site there.
There are lots of other
buildings, huts, blocks, which
needs attention.
And basically, Bletchley Park
is doing well, but they need
more money.
Give us your money.
So please--
I really want everyone to go up
there and see it, because I
think once you go up there,
you get a feel for what
happened there, for how
important it is, for what the
site is like.
It's an amazing place.
And so go and visit.
And get your friends to visit.
And also, anybody in technology
companies, it would
be great to have more
sponsorship and funding from
technology companies, so if
anyone can help with that,
that would be great.
So it's a very bright future.
But we need more money.
EZE VIDRA: So the
year is 2018.
You've acquired the money.
What's the vision?
What would you like
to accomplish if
everything is renovated?
SUE BLACK: Well, it's going to
be an international museum,
basically, which with 26 acres,
it's a massive site.
So it'll be a state of the art
museum, but also it'll be like
walking into the 1940s.
So it will be interesting to
actually see how that kind of
all comes together.
And I think there will be like
a state of the art conference
center there.
There will be educational
facilities, because the great
thing about Bletchley Park is
that it brings together kind
of the humanities and
the sciences.
You know, we've got Colossus,
the world's first programmable
digital computer, there,
used as part of the
code-breaking effort.
We've also got the amazing
history from the Second World
War, and the fact that it
shortened the war and saved so
many lives.
We've also got the whole thing
about the women that worked
there, because most people
think that--
well, my idea when I first went
there was it was probably
50 middle-aged blokes in tweed
jackets sitting around smoking
pipes doing the Times
crossword.
That's kind of my image of what
was at Bletchley Park.
But in fact, it was more
than 10,000 people.
And more than half of
them were women.
And I was there last week
or the week before.
The Duchess of Cornwall came
up to see and talk to 60 of
the women that worked there.
And they were I think from 16
upwards, but mainly kind of
late teens, early 20s.
They went there from school
and university to work.
There were more than 5,000
girls, basically, you know,
like young women, working
there who did all
this amazing stuff.
And we don't really know hardly
anything about their
contributions.
So there will be something
telling their story as well.
Absolutely.
MANDY WAITE: That's great.
One of my favorite features of
Bletchley Park, which I had
the fortune to see in November,
a VIP tour of
Bletchley Park which
was amazing.
I actually say the Alan
Turing Papers.
Alan Turing is the father
of modern computing.
Both you and Eve agree
with that.
SUE BLACK: Yes.
MANDY WAITE: Some people say
it's von Neumann, but--
[INAUDIBLE].
He's a real hero to me.
But until yourself and Simon
Meacham actually drew it to my
attention, I had no idea about
Alan Turing's papers and the
fact that they were going to go
off to [INAUDIBLE] country.
And then you did all of this
work to raise the funding to
actually keep the papers
in Bletchley Park.
So as a consequence, they're
there now in this wonderful
Alan Turing exhibit at
Bletchley, which I recommend
that everybody see
if they go there.
SUE BLACK: Well, that was
actually a massive combined
effort, because it was a guy
called Gareth Halfacree that
set up a JustGiving asking for
people to give money to help
Bletchley buy the papers.
And then I luckily met Megan
Smith at a conference, a
Google VP who was speaking,
and she said she'd help.
And then Simon Meacham got
in contact with me.
And Google gave $100,000
towards
it, which was wonderful.
But then that actually
didn't make the
price that was needed.
And so Bletchley Park, Simon
Green at Bletchley Park found
other funders basically
to come in.
And so again, it's kind of like
there's lots of things
around Bletchley Park, but most
of it is all kind of--
it's a team effort of lots
and lots of people
doing bits and pieces.
And that's one of the things I
really love about it, is that
because people feel so strongly
about Bletchley lots
of people, very different
people, work together to make
the good things happen.
MANDY WAITE: So I wanted to
continue on a theme of Alan
Turing and just briefly, what
do Alan Turing's papers
represent to you?
Why are they so important to
everybody in this country?
SUE BLACK: Well, because they're
kind of like some of
the fundamental papers in
computing and the first ideas
of computing.
He's been called the father of
computer science, and I think
for very good reasons with
the Turing machine
and the Turing test.
So what's interesting for me
was finding out-- because a
lot of this stuff
I didn't know.
I wasn't taught on my
computing degree.
Yeah.
I can't believe I don't think
I was taught anything at all
about Alan Turing.
And so probably lots of
other people weren't
But it's been great over the
last few years how lots of
people now know his name.
And with the centenary last
year, some fabulous work done
by Barry Cooper who ran that--
yeah.
It's just great that it's all
kind of out there now.
And actually, there's a great
AudioBoo that I did with
Julian Wilson who works at
Christie's, who looked after--
who handled the papers, who in
five minutes tells you exactly
why Turing's papers
are so important.
MANDY WAITE: Oh, excellent.
SUE BLACK: So that's on
my AudioBoo stream.
EZE VIDRA: Check it out.
SUE BLACK: Yes.
MANDY WAITE: It's been said of
you that you're an inspiration
to ladies either working
in or thinking
of working in computing.
[INAUDIBLE]
get exactly to the heart of
Women Techmakers, what Women
Techmakers is all about, to
provide inspirational role
models for people of all ages
who are considering education
or careers in technology.
So my question to you as a
role model, does it take
something special to
be a role model?
Can anyone be a role model?
SUE BLACK: Yeah.
No, I don't think it takes
anything special.
I don't think I'm anything
special.
I'm just someone who's
passionate and works hard, is
how I see it really.
And I'm very happy if people
can see me as a role model,
because I think we do need
more women role models in
tech, definitely.
There are some amazing people,
like Steve Shirley.
I don't know if you know
Dame Stephanie
Shirley as she is now.
She's just written a fantastic
autobiography, which I'm
partway through, so I recommend
everyone please read that.
And Wendy Hall is a great
role model, sort of in
the academic sphere.
There are so many great women
around, but we do need, and it
seems women particularly need
role models to kind of help
them think that they
can do it too.
So if I can go any way
towards doing that,
then I'm very happy.
EZE VIDRA: On the topic of role
models, who are your role
models or have they changed
throughout the years when you
started off in computer
science and now?
SUE BLACK: Well, I mean, I
think at the beginning I
probably didn't really
know any, really.
I mean, I don't think
I really knew--
I don't think I knew
about Ada Lovelace.
I don't think I knew about
Steve Shirley.
I can't really think of any
women in tech that I
knew at that time.
So now, Steve Shirley is
definitely a great
role model for me.
I mean, what she's done is
amazing, going from being a
refugee in the Second World War
through to setting up her
own company working only, I
think at least to start with,
with women, programming at
home and women with kids
programming at home, and
building that into a massive
software empire.
I think she sold it for I
can't remember how many
million sometime ago.
And it really gets me kind of
that we still haven't got to
that level now where that's
a normal thing to do.
But I think she kind of ran the
company solely with women
working at home to start with.
So yes, she's great
role model.
Wendy Hall is a great
role model too.
She's sort of been banging the
drum for a long time, since
before I was involved.
And she's been very
supportive to me.
So she's great.
There are so many now, but we
still need more, right?
MANDY WAITE: Yes.
Please stay tuned for a future
Women Techmakers.
We'll be having Wendy
Hall in this chair.
SUE BLACK: Yay.
MANDY WAITE: Which
is fantastic.
SUE BLACK: She's great fun.
MANDY WAITE: So talking about
women in computing, women in
technology, what Women
Techmakers is all about, so
this is kind of an opinionated
question,
but statistics suggest--
and I've read a lot of
statistics, statistics of
statistics as well, that the
pipeline from education to the
workplace is more of a funnel
that narrows very rapidly when
it comes to women progressing
towards a career in
technology.
It also seems to be as much
about choice as it is about
ability, more so even that women
are actually choosing
actively not to pursue
roles in technology.
So specifically when it comes to
computing, why do you feel
that women decide not to pursue
careers in technology?
SUE BLACK: Well, it's hard to
speak for women as a whole.
But I guess my ideas around
that would be that they
probably just don't know.
They don't know what it is to
start with, how cool it is,
and how kind of empowering
technology can be, because you
don't need to know that much, I
think, really, to be able to
kind of take advantage
of technology.
I think we've kind of got this
image of like typical
programmers as like the typical
person in tech.
And I think we need to move
away from that and kind of
change that stereotype.
And so I think women
just don't realize
that they can do it.
And they don't know what
it would do for
them if they could.
I mean, with the 
Foundation, the charity that I
set up, our next big project is
called TechMums, which is
all about getting mums a
bit more tech-savvy.
And I've kind of found
throughout my career that when
I talk to people outside of my
sort of peer group in tech,
when I talk about being in
computing, quite a lot of
people just kind of roll their
eyes at me or go politely and
they're like, oh, god.
You're so boring.
Or they think I'm a boffin and
it's just something that they
could never do, or talk about
kind of IT failures that we've
had over the years.
But you know, it is just such
a cool area to work in.
And there are so many
different types of
opportunities.
Everyone doesn't have
to be a programmer.
I think it's good to understand
how software works,
and to understand basic things
like an algorithm, what an
algorithm is, how software
works, that it's basically
just a list of instructions
and stuff that makes stuff
happen on a computer,
and a bit of kind
of web design skills.
I think most people can
do that kind of stuff.
And actually, we ran a workshop
day with kids called
 Tech last year where we
had like 90 8-year-olds doing
basic programming in Scratch
and playing around with
Raspberry Pis, and doing
a bit of app design
with Apps for Good.
And in a day, 90 kids learnt
to do some of this stuff.
So if 8-year-old kids can
do it, women can do it.
Mums can do it.
We need to get that
message out there.
And that's what TechMums
is all about.
EZE VIDRA: If you look at the
newspaper as well, like most
of the jobs that are the most
popular jobs today in social
media and in basic entry
level tech didn't
exist 10 years ago.
So what would you recommend
maybe as part of your work
with  as well, to someone
entering the world of
tech, especially women entering
tech or considering
to enter tech?
Like what's the first step
that they need to take in
order to be more tech-savvy?
SUE BLACK: Well, I suppose I
would say do our TechMums
course, because it's all about
kind of hand-holding people
over the sort of mental barrier
from thinking they
don't understand it and they
can't do it to feeling that
they're kind of empowered and
they know which way to go.
And so the idea is that we are
going to run a series of
workshops in a school,
Bishop Challoner
School in Tower Hamlets.
And the aim is that we kind of
collect together everything
that we've done and put into
a virtual box so that any
organization can then run that
workshop themselves.
EZE VIDRA: That's great.
SUE BLACK: And our aim is to
start small but build it up
quickly so that we can get
it across the country.
So anyone can help with that.
Let me know.
MANDY WAITE: Yes, definitely.
That would be really
interesting.
I had a conversation recently,
I think it was in conjunction
with women in tech, it may have
even been on one of the
interviews.
I'll have [INAUDIBLE] check.
But I mentioned that I felt it
was very important that we
start teaching the basics of
computing at a very early age,
almost the same time
as writing.
It's a fundamental skill.
Interacting with the
technology in your
surroundings is a fundamental
skill that you're going to
need as you grow up.
And you've mentioned on the blog
that we're only reaching
computer science
at GCSE level.
Should we be doing more to teach
young people, very young
people, children in elementary
school, primary school?
SUE BLACK: Yes.
Absolutely.
Absolutely.
I mean, I can't see-- you know,
like we read books to
kids and we teach them basic
maths from when they're
talking and like understanding
things.
So why not put some things
towards kind of technology
skills in that?
I mean, I had a conversation
on Twitter a while ago with
someone who was saying,
no, no, no.
We shouldn't teach it before
a certain age.
And in our conversation they
kind of thought that I was
saying we should teach C++ to
four-year-olds, which of
course I don't think
is a good idea.
But the thing is, like
understanding algorithms like
I was saying before, so
understanding step-by-step
instructions-- where we can
teach our kids about cooking,
why can't we teach them
about algorithms?
And then that can lead into a
conversation about software
and computing, because I think
teaching kids how to, I don't
know, make a cake, you get your
ingredients together and
you do certain things
with them.
And you end up with some
result at the end.
Well, you know, that's kind of
around the mindset of what you
would do if were writing
some code, if you
were writing a program.
And there's nothing wrong with
that, so why is there
something wrong with--
I think it's just people not
really thinking about what it
actually means.
EZE VIDRA: It's interesting.
In Estonia, for example, they
started teaching kids from the
age of eight.
And it's part of
the curriculum.
But I guess one of the questions
that we get from
start-ups around technical
talent is, how do you think is
the curriculum a fit for then
getting a job in tech?
Do you think that there's--
apart from starting them a
younger age, do you think there
needs to be changes to
the curriculum to equip them
for the actual jobs they're
going to do?
SUE BLACK: Yes.
Yes.
Absolutely.
I mean, we're teaching math
skills at five and reading,
literacy, and that
kind of stuff.
So why can't technology
be in there as well?
And I think it should be.
And again, you can teach--
you don't have to be
teaching coding.
But you could be teaching
things, like, you know, we had
Logo back in the--
whenever.
Some people are still
doing Logo.
That kind of stuff.
And even like the youngest kids,
you can talk to them
about step-by-step things
that they do.
It doesn't have to
be about coding.
But I think about getting the
kind of key concepts in there,
kind of like hard-wired from
when they're young will help
so much later on.
MANDY WAITE: I agree.
I think technology is going to
change in such way that it
won't be about programming
any more.
The way you interact with things
will be much different
than writing code.
But it will be very similar,
but everybody will be doing
it, just like what people
are doing on
their phones currently.
SUE BLACK: Yes.
Absolutely.
And the thing is, we kind of
all are starting to do that
kind of stuff.
We just don't realize that's
what it is, I think.
So that's another message
to get over, really.
EZE VIDRA: Yes.
MANDY WAITE: So I have a crazy
question to ask you.
It's probably going to
be the last question.
Guys, how are we
doing for time?
MALE SPEAKER: A few minutes.
MANDY WAITE: We've got
a few minutes left.
That's excellent.
So I'm going to ask
you this question.
You said you think you'd
be able to answer it.
SUE BLACK: Oh, gosh.
I've forgotten what it was.
MANDY WAITE: Well, I read on
your Posterous blog that you
love learning about the
history of computing.
And so thanks to you and thanks
to Lynette Webb, I've
been introduced into that
rich history as well.
It's amazing.
I absolutely share
that passion.
I just wish I had more
time to pursue it.
But say like in 100 years, what
will historians be saying
and writing about this
particular era in the history
of computing?
SUE BLACK: I'd forgotten
you said you were
going to ask that.
I guess I think it will all be
about when we really connected
to each other, so kind of the
social media thing, but kind
of on a really big scale,
because we can now find so
much information.
We can now connect to
so many people.
I mean, I think search is just
amazing, and not just because
we can look up what we want to
buy at the shops or something,
or something on Wikipedia, but
because once everyone across
the world gets online, which is
happening gradually, we'll
be able to find anything and
anyone anywhere and then
connect up in ways that we
can't even imagine yet.
But there's just so much
information out there and the
ability to search it, that I
think that's going to be-- the
kind of connecting everybody and
everything up together is
going to be the big thing
that's kind of
happened at this time.
MANDY WAITE: OK.
That's excellent.
I totally agree.
Before we wrap up, do you want
to actually say anything about
what you're actually working
in currently?
SUE BLACK: Well, TechMums,
I've been
plugging that really hard.
That's our latest project.
Yes.
So we'll be running a TechMums
workshop and putting TechMums
in a virtual box.
So if anyone wants to help us
with that, or across the
country wants to get involved in
terms of running some sort
of workshops or hosting
a workshop or even
participating, then please
get in touch.
MANDY WAITE: Awesome.
Well, thank you Sue.
And wonderful to have
you along today.
SUE BLACK: Thank you.
MANDY WAITE: Thank you,
Eze, for stepping in.
EZE VIDRA: Thank you.
Thanks for having me.
Nice to meet you.
SUE BLACK: Thank you.
Yes, you too.
MANDY WAITE: Thank you,
everybody, from Campus London.
My name's Mandy Waite.
Eze Vidra, and Sue Black.
SUE BLACK: Thank you.
EZE VIDRA: Thank you.
