Well, Dr. Lewis, thank you for
coming on.
As you know, you participated
in the B.C.
debate and what we found was
in directing and I happen to direct
it was that the majority
of EDA's in B.C.
voted free speech
is the most important issue for
them. And 63 percent
of viewers of the debate voted
the same. They voted free speech to
be their most important issue.
So my first question is really,
do you. Do you see free
speech as a very prominent issue
at the moment? Have you been seeing
it on the digital campaign trail?
Well, it is a very
prominent issue.
And I think that people are
concerned that
with social media and
the digital trail, there's
less accountability because of
anonymity.
And so people are very, very
concerned that, you know,
there is a tendency to sometimes
fuel conspiracy theories because
people could take bits and pieces of
information and then just
go off
on unsubstantiated claims
with it. And so there is that
concern.
And so there there does need to be
checks and balances, I think, in
place also.
And, you know, we do
have free speech.
And that's something that's
guaranteed in Section two
of our charter.
But there are always limits
to to every freedom.
You know, you still can't go in an
airport and yell fire
or in a movie theater and yell fire
or a bomb in an airport.
So we do still need checks
and balances, but those checks and
balances cannot be something
that is imposed
to restrict your speech.
Upfront. That doesn't harm other
people.
Right. Right. And I know you're
you're a lawyer, so it's interesting
to get your take on this
free speech or free expression,
whatever you want to call it, in
Canada. It is a basic
right that we have
in general in the West.
Do you see it as
a conservative issue at the
moment, or is it really
a Canadian issue, a freedom issue, a
nationwide issue?
Well, I think it's an issue of
individual liberties.
And I think that, you know, such
a liberty as free speech should be
something that concerns all
Canadians.
And, you know, unfortunately,
we've seen in the last
few years that just the predominance
of leftist activists
using speech
to silence people.
And and we've seen a rise of
cancel culture tactics
that are used to beat basically
silence people who don't share
certain philosophies and ideologies.
And I believe that free speech
is a cornerstone of our democracy.
We need a free
exchange of ideas for
citizens and policies to grow
in and and for us to develop,
develop policies and to grow as a
society.
So we need freedom to dissent
and we need to be able to cast
our votes freely and also
be able to vote in accordance with
our conscience.
Yeah, yeah, no, for sure, I mean,
you mentioned before limitations,
the free speech everyone
is is pretty copacetic with the idea
that you can't yell fire in a
theater or bomb, that sort
of something we all have a
gentlemen's agreement about.
And he also can't incite hatred.
But where do you draw the line
between free speech and hate speech?
You know, are our opponents will
will come after us immediately.
Anytime we talk about free speech,
they'll say all. You just want to
promote hate speech,
you know? Where where would you draw
that line?
Well, I believe that,
you know, the criminal code is
very clear on what hate
speech is.
And it's it's really defined.
I believe it's in, you know, section
219 of the criminal code.
And so that's very clear.
The problem that I have is that
we cannot
we cannot legislate speech
to prevent people
from saying what's on their mind,
even if it's offensive.
And that's that's not criminal.
I think that we have to you know,
we have to make sure that the law
better reflects the intent
of of the speech.
And so we look at
the intent of hate speech and
we recognize that, you know, if if
the intention is to physically
harm somebody or to
communicate for the purposes
of harm to the society, then
that's something very, very
different. But a spirited debate
debate, one that offends
people, is not criminal.
It's unpleasant, but it is not
criminal. There's no reason why
people should be subject
to jail time for
things that they disagree on.
You know, like I said, the it's very
well covered in the criminal code.
And so any other laws
that attempt to limit people's
speech, I believe that, you know,
it's it's they're just far reaching.
You know, you talk about
laws, so it would be interesting to
get into policy with you.
We understand that free speech is
very cultural.
But as leader of the country and the
party,
what policies would you put forward
to safeguard free speech?
What we need.
We need strong messages on free
speech, and so I would literally
start by repealing legislation
that I believe threatens our free
speech and making
sure that, you know, we
we adopt laws that,
you know, that are clear between
what is criminal and what is just
an exercise of your your
Section two charter rights.
So I plan on fighting back
this wave of political correctness
that I see that's sweeping
our our nation.
And there are many people who've
come to me and they said, you know,
please communicate this for us
because nobody else is really
dealing with this issue.
And we feel that we're walking
around on egg shells and we can't
freely speak anymore.
And so I see
that a lot of this is
starting from our
own institutions of education,
whether it's at the provincial level
or whether it's in our higher
education.
And with respect to universities,
there's aspects of that that are
dependent upon federal funding.
And so I would withhold
federal research funding for
universities and colleges that do
not respect freedom of speech on
campus.
And I would also repeal
legislations like Bill C 48,
sorry, Bill C eight and Bill
C 16, because I believe
that those have overstepped
and they've actually
gone into areas such
as parental rights and freedom of
speech.
And in and this is all in pursuit
of political correctness.
Yeah, yeah.
Well, you know, your your insight on
this is really interesting because
you are a lawyer in terms of
Bill C 16.
What is the precedent set that
is worrying to you that, you know,
we know you want to repeal it.
What is the precedent of it that
is concerning?
Well, I think my concern is
that it attacks free speech and
it threatens fines and sanctions
against people who use incorrect
speech and so, that is the first
time in that
I can find in our history
of our country where we have an
attempt to criminalize private
speech and private speech
that doesn't intentionally
inflict harm.
And so I think that that's a very
dangerous precedent.
And I believe that our Canadian laws
are criminal law, sufficiently
protect against abuses
of harassment of individuals.
And I'm also concerned
because parents, you know, parents
are struggling with issues that are
very, very real, such as their
children facing gender identity
issues.
And these children deserve to be
loved and they deserve
to grow up in a society that that
loves and honors them.
And I believe that that starts with
the parents.
And if we are, you know,
instilling fear in these parents,
it interferes with their ability
to to really raise their children
within an unloving environment
because they're afraid of the
coercive apparatus of the state
on them. And so I think that's very,
very disconcerting.
another issue I have is that,
as I said, that just the
criminalization of the privatized
aspect of of of
speech is very, very concerning.
And like I said, people
sometimes are insensitive.
They're ignorant.
I myself, if
if somebody chooses to speak
to to be identified by a certain
pronoun, I will go out of my way to
make sure that I do that.
I think that that's something it's
a very easy
sign of respect for me.
But there are people who who
don't do that. But I don't think
that's criminal whatsoever.
You know, and I said, you know,
people will be offended.
Could be offensive.
But it doesn't mean that
they're, they are hateful.
And it doesn't mean that their
speeches criminal.
Yeah, I think intent is definitely
important.
How do you legislate intent to
becomes very subjective?
And like you said, there are a lot
of people who have bad intentions.
There are a lot of bad people.
But at the end of the day, I think,
you know, Canadians are known as the
kindest people on Earth.
And at what point do we need
to legislate something to compel you
to say something versus just having
individual responsibility to
do so?
So I agree with you.
That is the problem is that when
you're legislating to compel
people speech, that's where we've
crossed the line.
Whereas if we have
like we've always have a general
boundaries of this is what you
can say. These are the limits of
your speech, then that's a
totally different thing, because
then you know that you cannot incite
hatred and you cannot do these
things. But when you tell people
you have to say this, you have
to believe that you are taking
away one of the cornerstones
of our our society, our fundamental
freedoms. And so that is very
troubling.
It's troubling because at that
stage, the government may start
to impose their values
on you. And then we have changed
from a democracy to living in a
totalitarian regime.
And I'm very concerned about that
movement.
Yeah, as am I.
Getting back to universities, you
mentioned you would defund
universities that don't
support free expression.
Why do you think the cancel culture
and identity politics
is so prevalent on university
campuses?
Well, I think
that you have young
minds, you have young minds that are
malleable, that
are easily indoctrinated.
And I think that
the universities are capitalizing
on that. And you have a lot
of left leaning ideologues
that are, you know,
imparting their way of
thinking as dogma
on young people.
And so we have to be
you know, we have to make
sure that we we combat
that. That universities
should be a place
for the dissemination
of diverse
information.
And so we have to make sure
that people are not silenced
and that they have an opportunity
to explore
knowledge from like an
epistemological standpoint
where they can just question
all things in universities.
That's the environment for
that. And when we have
ideologues, you know, putting their
perspectives on young people, I
think that that is basically
creating a movement
of our future individuals
that will support your particular
philosophy about the way the world
should look.
No, I agree completely.
So then it sounds like
what you would implement is
something similar to Chicago
principles, where you're
incentivizing schools on a federal
level to protect free
speech than they receive federal
funding. The issue is also
provincial.
Would that be something that
you would work with provinces on?
Well, there are aspects of
our funding that is solely
provincial, that are solely federal,
and that deals with a lot of the
grants that are given out
with to certain institutions.
But absolutely, in all aspects
of policy, we're I believe
fundamental freedoms are being
infringed in encroached upon.
I would work with provinces
to make sure that they are.
This is something that we're doing
to make sure that we have a robust
democracy.
And so I would want to work with
provincial leaders to say how
can we facilitate a robust
democracy? And I don't think anybody
should object to that.
Yeah, 100 percent.
So I asked everyone
the same question on this.
And I know your a mother.
So what advice would you give
to younger conservatives who feel
silenced or feel afraid
to speak their mind?
What message of motivation would you
give?
Well, I would I would tell them
that this is your country
and you
are here because of the sacrifices
that people before you made
for your freedom.
And so it is incumbent on you
to recognize that
your your democratic ideals,
your fundamental freedoms,
such as your freedom of speech
and your ability to express
yourself freely and to believe what
you want to believe.
That is something that is worth
fighting for.
And so I would suggest
that, you know, they start
movements, they get together
and form groups
of free, you know, that celebrate
freedom of speech, that they form it
on campuses, that they let their
voices be heard, that they
start to mobilize
and to demonstrate to society
that this is something this is
something so important to them that
they're willing to put their energy
and effort into making sure
that, you know, our rights
to speak freely are never raised
in this country.
I couldn't agree more.
Well, I know you're very busy, so I
appreciate your time.
Dr. Leslyn Lewis, thank you so much
for coming on.
Thank you so much.
And it was such a pleasure being
here. And nice to see you again.
I believe you at the B.C. Debate
Yes. Yes, absolutely.
So very nice to see you again.
Thank you. Thank you for having me.
