- On February 21, 1984,
pop culture as we know it
almost changed dramatically.
The movies we watch, the shows we binge,
the games we play and
the comics we read today
could've all been entirely
different because of a decision
that was nearly made 34 years ago today,
at the time this video's coming out.
Marvel Comics almost bought their most
significant competitor, DC Comics.
This history-altering deal was so close
to becoming a reality,
Superman, Batman, Wonder Woman
and more could've all
become Marvel superheroes
alongside The Avengers.
But then the deal was canceled.
Marvel got cold feet and backed off.
Unbelievably, they didn't
think DC's characters
were good enough to purchase.
It's one of those incredible stories
that defines the comic
book industry's insane,
surreal history, so much so that you've
probably heard this story passed
around the internet for years.
There's just one problem, though.
The story, it's not really true.
(upbeat music)
How are you doing, you wonderful nerds?
Scott here.
You know, when I started making videos
ages ago, I wanted to
combat those comic book
fact accounts on Twitter and Instagram
who post second-hand
trivia about comic books
with no sources to a
massive audience of nerds
who regurgitate that info
in a game of telephone
until no one even knows
what's true anymore.
And, you know, you guys seem really seemed
to like our video where
we debunked some trivia
about Heath Ledger's
Joker, so I figured today
we can try it again by
talking about this tweet
that was sent to me by @shurmurdashat.
Er, I am definitely
pronouncing that wrong.
The myth claims that in
1984, Marvel had the chance
to buy DC Comics but declined
because DC's characters
weren't popular enough.
Okay, so this is so misleading that I am
actually physically annoyed.
I am shaking with frustration.
Woo, so, today, let's end this inaccuracy
and give you the real
story behind Marvel's deal
to buy DC Comics, because the reality
is infinitely more interesting
than this ridiculous factoid.
Last time I checked,
the best place to start
is at the beginning to gather what most
social media trivia
accounts hate, context.
Am I being passive-aggressive
or just regularly aggressive?
Anyway, like a lot of critical moments
in comic book history, this story
begins in times of struggle.
As I'm sure we all know,
the comic book industry
has struggled in one way
or another since the 1950s.
And by the early 80s, DC
Comics, in particular,
was not doing so hot.
Despite huge success
with its brand new series
The New Teen Titans, the company wasn't
gaining much traction.
In fact, it was losing
millions of dollars every year.
The fire that had lit
DC's empire for decades
was starting to dim quickly,
and DC's parent company,
Warner Communications, took notice.
The higher ups started wondering if comic
publishing was worth the cost.
Maybe they could scrap the
comic books all together
and just license the superheroes to forces
outside of the comic book industry.
The general public knew who Superman was
without needing to buy Superman 4-24,
even though that cover is rad.
The point is, Superman
the movie had become
a sensation with audiences years earlier,
rocketing the character's
popularity into the stratosphere.
Sure, the public by
and large didn't really
seem to be interested in
Batman or Wonder Woman
comics, but the Batman
TV show from the 60s
made a huge cultural
impact, and the Wonder Woman
series also made waves
on the air in the 70s.
So maybe supes, bats and
wons, maybe they had all
transcended their original medium
and belonged elsewhere, right?
Preferably an industry that
was a little more stable
and profitable than comics.
Of course, like any business, the writing
was on the wall for all employees to see,
and DC's financial fumbling
was pretty obvious.
Rumors of a complete DC shutdown circled
the comic book company's
offices for years.
As one DC editor put it,
quote, "There were rumors
"of that every single
week I worked at DC."
End quote.
So that's not great.
As a YouTuber, I can emphasize with that.
(voice distorts)
Please subscribe.
Meanwhile, over at Marvel comics,
it was a much different story.
The house of ideas was flooding the market
with tons of diverse
and varied characters,
a practice that afforded
them a lot of success
along with a lot of other not as pleasant
things that we'll talk about in a minute.
But this was the era when
Daredevil came into his own
and X-Men became a fan-favorite franchise
that it remains today.
Marvel wasn't licensing its
characters as much as DC was.
Not yet, anyway, but
they had done very well
with the Spider-Man brand,
especially in televised animation.
Either way, Marvel's
work in comics was still
making a lot of money, and all of this was
happening under Editor
in Chief Jim Shooter,
because if there's a
story about the mainstream
comic book industry, it probably involves
Jim Shooter in some capacity.
He's always lurking in the shadows,
waiting, watching, plotting.
(dramatic music)
Seems like a nice guy.
In February of 1984, as
the rumors about DC's
closure made their way
into Marvel's offices,
Shooter got a call from
a guy named Bill Sarnoff.
Now, Sarnoff was not DC's editor in chief
or even the president of DC comics.
Sarnoff was the chairman
of Warner Communications'
publishing arm, Warner Books.
And he had an interesting
proposal: license DC's
publishing rights to
Marvel, effectively giving
Marvel complete control over DC Comics'
cast of characters,
which, you might notice,
is not the same as
Marvel buying DC Comics.
And this, my wonderful nerds, is just one
notable discrepancy of
many, a critical detail
often missed when covering this story.
Marvel was never on the verge
of purchasing its competitor.
It was only ever close to having creative
control over DC's most
popular characters in comics,
not movies or TV or video games.
It wasn't a buyout.
It was a licensing deal.
The only thing that
would've changed would have
been who's in control of
the comics specifically.
And I know that to some of you that might
seem insignificant, but
just wait, because there
are way more misconceptions
that we have yet to debunk,
comic misconceptions, if you will.
I even put it in the title
again, because you guys,
well, you guys wouldn't
stop bugging me about it.
Yup, that's just regular
aggression, sorry.
Anyway, this wasn't the first time a deal
like this had been offered,
but it was the first
time Jim Shooter was involved.
And he was all in.
He enthusiastically took
the idea to Marvel's
then president, Jim Galton,
who in turn contacted Sarnoff
to promptly call off the deal.
Why, why would he do that, though?
How could he possibly turn
down a deal like this?
Well, do you remember how
that factoid from earlier
claimed that Marvel
believed DC's characters
weren't popular enough?
That part, surprisingly,
is actually kinda true.
Although it is worth noting that saying
they weren't popular
enough is a bit misleading.
The cultural impact of
DC's superhero lineup
didn't really have anything
to do with Galton's
decision to pass on the offer.
Instead, Galton deemed that Batman,
Superman and the rest of DC's pantheon
must not be very good characters
because they weren't selling issues.
It's all about that bottom line, son.
But while that is where the factoid ends,
this story is far from over.
I mean, just look at that
time code down there.
We've got
- Nine.
- Minutes left.
After Jim Galton expressed
his disinterest in the deal,
the other Jim, of the Shooter
variety, was in disbelief!
Shooter knew that the DC
universe was, unquestionably,
a valuable property, but the
wrong people were at the wheel.
Shooter claimed, quote,
"We can make them work."
End quote.
Jim Shooter spent three
days putting together
a game plan that would
hopefully persuade others
at Marvel to pull the
trigger on this deal,
a presentation that showed
how the company would
approach the DC universe
if the deal went through.
He wrote it all up in
a memo and presented it
to Marvel's Executive VP of
Business Affairs Joe Calamari.
Incredibly, this surviving document is,
as far as I can tell, the
only physical evidence
we have that this deal was a real thing
that almost happened.
It was graciously provided
by Jim Shooter himself
over on his blog, which
is absolutely worth a read
for more wild stories like this.
Oh and hey, look at what the subject line
is, buying DC Comics.
So maybe this is where
the confusion comes from.
Darn it, Jim!
Back on track.
The proposed plan was as
follows: Marvel would print
seven initial titles: Superman, Batman,
Wonder Woman, Green Lantern, Teen Titans,
Justice League and the
Legion of Superheroes.
If it took off, they could
always expand the lineup later.
Shooter projected that
the comics would sell
39 million copies, raking in $3.5 million
during the first two years alone.
He even anticipated the
new jobs that the deal
would create at the company.
And to top it all off, Shooter outlined
the licensing agreement
that would have mirrored
Marvel's hold on Star
Wars comics at the time.
At the end of the day, the
deal was pitched as a win-win.
Warner was gonna get lots of money
and have their characters revitalized,
while Marvel was going
to make lots of money
revitalizing those characters.
Shooter also believed this licensing deal
would be, quote, "the
elimination of an irritation."
End quote.
There's that friendly
rivalry we know and love.
Joe Calamari was convinced, but Galton was
still skeptical of these
projected sales numbers.
To see if Shooter's analysis was correct,
Galton sent the plan
to Marvel's circulation
department for a review.
And, what do you know,
they agreed that Shooter's
numbers were off, like way off.
The sales team was
confident that there was
no way Marvel was gonna
be pulling in $3.5 million
from this deal.
Realistically, they
could only probably make
double that or more!
Yeah, they thought Shooter was
being way too conservative,
which I guess is the
best criticism that you
can receive with something like this.
And with exciting news like that,
it was impossible to keep
this deal a secret for long.
Word of a possible DC licensing agreement
reached Marvel's ground-level offices,
and the excitement was palpable.
The very idea of Marvel
writers and artists
telling Batman stories
or creating scenarios
with those hip new Teen Titans had more
than enough potential to
fuel the creative fires
in the house of ideas.
Shooter even claims that
John Byrne, a significant
writer and artist at
Marvel, had proactively
drawn up a Marvel presents
Superman comic cover,
fully drawn, fully inked, ready to go.
Needless to say, everyone was boarding
the hype train at Marvel Comics.
Nobody was saying that
DC's characters weren't
popular enough anymore.
The numbers came in, the
higher ups were happy,
and the creators could not
contain their enthusiasm.
Negotiations between them
and Warner Books commenced
in the weeks to follow, and it looked like
everything was in place
for historic change
in the comic book industry.
But, obviously, it didn't happen, so why?
What was the reason why this
deal didn't come to fruition?
Well, there's something you need to know.
During this time, and even
throughout the negotiation
of this entire process, something had been
haunting Marvel Comics.
And it prevented them from
signing on that dotted line.
Remember earlier when I said that Marvel
was flooding the comic book market?
Here's a clip.
The house of ideas was flooding the market
with tons of diverse
and varied characters.
Yeah, that was not an exaggeration.
According to Shooter,
Marvel held nearly 70%
of the comic book industry's market share
in the early 80s.
For reference, that's
around the same percentage
that Marvel and DC had in the comic book
industry in 2017 combined.
And that sounds impressive,
but it created a bit
of a paradox where Marvel
was in such healthy
condition that it was
starting to become a problem.
You see, when a company
becomes that dominant
in a particular market, it can potentially
violate antitrust laws.
Without proper competition,
a company can effectively
become a monopoly, and
Marvel was on its way
to completely engulfing
the comic book industry.
However, a little
independent publisher called
First Comics took notice.
In the spring of 1984, First Comics filed
a lawsuit against Marvel Entertainment,
claiming that the company
had, indeed, violated
antitrust laws,
intentionally trying to flush
out independent comic book publishing.
Their case went something like this.
So at this point in the
comic book industry,
the direct market, i.e. comic book stores,
had become a prevalent method of getting
more independent titles to comics fans,
but retailers had a monthly
budget for their shelves,
and First Comics claimed
that Marvel was putting
out as many comics as possible to exhaust
those budgets and keep
independent publishers
like First out of this new
and very profitable market.
Now, the legitimacy of
this claim is debatable,
but, regardless, it was a heavily
publicized story at the time.
The accusation of a Marvel monopoly,
I can't do air quotes apparently,
was in the air.
So now, smash cut back to Marvel in talks
to gain creative control
and publishing rights
of their most significant competitor.
Yeah, suddenly the
lawyers in the room were
getting pretty nervous.
Swallowing even more of
the market while you're
in the midst of a legal
battle where you're
being accused of having too much control
of the market already
doesn't really look great.
And this, my wonderful
nerds, is the real reason
why Marvel's licensing
deal with DC was called
off and quickly forgotten.
Not because, well, Marvel thought
Batman was silly or whatever.
Marvel had to deal with
the First Comics lawsuit
for pretty much the rest of the decade,
finally resolving the suit in 1988.
And that allowed DC
Comics the time to make
an incredible comeback.
For two years after the
proposed Marvel licensing deal,
DC released two of the
most influential comic
book stories ever told, The Dark Knight
Returns and Watchmen.
These two publications
supercharged the market
and changed comics forever.
The impact of these two
tales is so substantial
that you can still see DC's affection
for the material today in comic shops
and on the silver
screens around the world.
And just spare a moment
to let that sink in,
because if this deal had become a reality,
those stories might not have been created.
With Marvel putting a focus on those seven
mainstream, family friendly titles, darker
niche characters would
have been tossed out
for the time being.
Titles that shined in DC's
Vertigo imprint like Sandman,
Swamp Thing and Animal Man
would've never been printed.
Pretty much everything under Marvel,
especially under Jim Shooter, would have
been squeaky clean and
safe for the whole family,
no grit, no edge.
And that would've rippled
out to the rest of culture
that was inspired by the
darker comics that DC put out.
Think of how many freaking Batman movies
lifted inspiration from The
Dark Knight Returns alone.
And, honestly, that just
scratches the surface.
Let me know in the comments
other ways that pop
culture would have been
different today if this
deal had gone through and also would you
have liked to see Marvel
become the sole publisher
of Batman, Superman
and Wonder Woman comics
and other DC characters for that matter?
Let me know what you're
thinking down in the comments
below, and I'll respond to some of them
in the next comment response video.
I promise I'm still making those.
We've just been having some
technical difficulties.
And also let me know any
other suspicious comic book
or superhero trivia you
want debunked or explained
either down below or on Twitter.
We make new videos every
week, so hit that big
sexy subscribe button so
you never miss an upload.
And tap the bell to join
the notification squad
so you and I can chat in the comments
as soon as a new video goes live.
You can tell I'm putting
an emphasis on comments.
I like comments.
I like your comments.
I like you.
That's how it works.
As always, I want to thank our patrons
who keep this show going,
especially Crisoffer Lange,
Keaten Lampert, Elizabeth
Moncel, Everett Parrott
and the rest of the wonderful nerds
over at Patreon.com/NerdSync.
Click or tap right here to see our
video debunking trivia
from The Dark Knight.
Alternatively, right down here is a video
YouTube mysterious algorithm thinks you,
individually, will enjoy.
Let's test it out and see
how well it knows you.
Thanks for watching you wonderful nerds.
My name is Scott reminding you to read
between the panels and grow
smarter through comics.
See ya.
(upbeat music)
I am really shaking.
