I'm Joe Bianco. I'm Bill Finley. I'm
Jonathan Green.
I'm Alan Carrasso
good morning it is 905 wednesday
september 2nd this is the tdn writers
room presented by keeneland
my name is joe bianca i'm the associate
editor of the thoroughbred daily news we
finally made it to derby week
even though it now seems like we're
closer to next year's derby
than we were to this year's derby we
started talking about it
i am bill finley a correspondent for the
thoroughbred daily news and i agree it's
a thrill
after all these many long arduous months
to say happy kentucky derby week
everybody
jonathan green general manager of dj
stable and i have to say this is like
waking up christmas morning with a new
puppy walking downstairs
find out the giants won the super bowl
and they have the number one jurassic
that's how exciting this week is
i'm alan carrasso managing interview tdn
and i
like eight of those derby horses and a
50-1 chance to make it through the
weekend
i've never seen john that excited it's a
little disturbing oh it's
it's racing at its best the oaks the
derby and all the undercard
and we got a couple of big yearling
sales coming up also i mean this is like
i'm like a kid in the candy store with
like
a 50 bill this is unbelievable coming in
high
coming in hot and ready appreciate the
enthusiasm
the tdn writers room is brought to you
by keeneland reminder that the keyland
september yearling sale starts
september 13th that's next sunday and
runs through september 25th with 4
272 yearlings on offer also keelan
released
a an extensive list of jockey
protocols for cobia 19 for jockeys for
the upcoming fall meet which of course
leads into the breeders cup world
championships
so good job by keyland having those in
place ahead of time we saw some issues
earlier in the year with different
tracks
that didn't quite have his strengths or
protocols for jockeys so
good on them for being proactive getting
out in front of that and then of course
king of september is something we all
look forward to we'll be here before you
know it
so we had the kentucky derby draw
yesterday as everyone said we are
finally here at derby week we have made
it through the fog
and we have the run for the roses to
look forward to this saturday
um we've talked in the past few weeks
about how it's maybe not the most
exciting derby of all time but it
nevertheless is the derby and we finally
made it after four months delay
um we had a big scratch yesterday with
art collector
it was really unfortunate for me and my
stable we'll talk about that in a little
bit
as we run down you know where we are
after all the prep races
he had a minor foot bruise uh sounds
like something that won't keep him out
too long hopefully he'll make it to the
preakness and or the breeders cup tom
drury said it's just
a minor thing and they had to do right
by the horse so good on them for doing
that
um as it is we have three horses and
single digits on the morning line tis
the law was made the three to five
morning line favorite i'm sure i'm using
that short
maybe four to five even money but they
all drew
next to each other on the far outside
which is an interesting little wrinkle
and the 16 hole we have uh on our ap and
then 17 is tis the law
and 18 is authentic one of my first
impressions we're going to go around and
we're going to talk about long shots we
like how we you know how we see the race
uh setting up but one of my first
impressions was that it doesn't seem
like there's a ton of speed
in the race and i think that's something
that's pretty rare in the derby i think
we usually have
a couple of runoff speed types whether
it's you know sprinters who have
recently stretched out
or you know long shots whose only chance
is to go to the front
i don't know that we have that this year
i think authentic is probably going to
be the most likely front runner
with john velasquez breaking from the
outside and they have to be aggressive
early on with him i don't know i think
there's a lot of stalking types but i
don't know that we're going to have
a super fast speed duel which is
unfortunate for me because some of the
long shots that i do like
are late running types and you know they
need a little bit of a setup going into
that final turn
uh tislaw obviously is way the horse to
beat i think
you know we're it's kind of obvious that
if he runs back to his travers
it's going to take a lot for someone to
beat him if he runs back to any of his
other races before that
then i think he might be a bit of a
vulnerable favorite so i think that's
kind of what it comes down to and
you know i'm not running to the window
to bid against him i do think that
they're
like i said there's that one race and i
don't generally like
short price favorites to have one race
that's better than everybody else and
then a bunch of other races that are
good
but not necessarily head and shoulders
above everybody else initial thoughts
from the derby starting with bill
well first of all i want some of those
john green happy pills that he was
taking this morning i hate to be scrooge
here but john i'm not feeling
it maybe this is something we could talk
about i mean the thing was supposed to
be run four months ago
we've got a three to five favorite it's
the second leg of the triple crown there
won't be anybody in the stands
yeah it's the kentucky derby but i think
to say that you know there's that same
buzz out there for a normal year
unless it's just me and you know maybe i
just woke up on the wrong side of the
bed this morning
i'm sorry i'm not feeling it and you
know my phone number i definitely want
some
stuff john cause man it did some real
work on you
um joe i'd like to look at this from a
betting standpoint all of us like
the bet on the horses um i've been on
the since law bandwagon since the
champagne obviously i'm not gonna get
off them now
but who wants about a three to five or
four to five shot especially in the
kentucky derby
i think the way to approach the race is
kind of look at the race within the race
the other 17 horses if you assume that
tis law is going to win
what's going to happen among the other
17. and if you put those in the
into um into the mix it's not a stellar
group by any stretch of the imagination
but it it's a kind of a riddle from a
handicapping standpoint
and as long as uh otter ap or authentic
don't run
second i think from the exact as you've
got a chance to get some sort of strange
horses in there to maybe make a little
bit of a nice price
i mean i think everybody kind of falls
into three categories
um the the horse is just absolutely no
shot i mean i'm not going to get excited
about
finnick the fierce i know that's a horse
near and dear to your heart
joe but i thought that there's a couple
sneaky horses i came up with soleil
volante attachment rate
and new york traffic is my wise guy
horses that might finish second
so instead of getting 380 on uh tis the
law maybe i'll get a 30
exact 35 exactly or something like that
i think they're all uh they're all
horses i use the thorograph sheets
they've all run
fast enough in their history to be
competitive they'll be good prices
and uh i just think it's such a crap
shoot for the other race
who's going to finish second third and
fourth for the exact as uh try
super effective and stuff like that
yeah and and guys you're bringing up
some excellent points um
you know with regard to how the
favorites gonna handle this
and also you know what to expect in the
race um
i don't want to to repeat some things
that you guys are talking about but
let me talk about a couple of horses
that i think you know are off the radar
that have a shot
um money moves which is a todd fletcher
horse a candy ride that they spent 975
thousand dollars for
uh you know one pretty impressively at
its debut at gulfstream came back in a
one-turn mile
and then had a break until july 25th ran
against all the horses and ran second
and is improving dramatically um with
every race as
as it gets it under its belt so money
moves who wouldn't even be in the derby
or the preakness you know in previous
years
all of a sudden is is pletcher's uh you
know opportunity at 30 to 1.
um i'm also really happy with the fact
that i have not one but two horses that
are on my
uh fantasy list mr big news and sol
valente
and really build a go to to what you
were saying if you cross out sovalante's
belmont race
he's a really powerful horse and has a
really good shot um to hit the board
and then you have to look at a horse
like thousand words i think
who threw in a clunker um in oak lawn
came back and ran a good second in the
los angeles derby
and then one a list that granted it was
a listed steak race when speed was uh
you know
was really being favored at uh you know
out in california but they paid a
million dollars for him he's really well
bred
i think he's coming back into form at 15
to one but there's no question in my
mind that they're all running behind tis
the law
who has just put in such a phenomenal
you know three-year-old campaign
now could you say that he could bounce
this race yeah the sheet numbers and the
buyer numbers and
you know all the all the uh you know the
fancy logistics that you look at
um say that he will bounce probably but
could he bounce and still win
yeah absolutely he's just that good and
against this field which
maybe isn't as good as the field that he
would have run against you know had this
race
been campaigned in may um yeah he could
still bounce and still run
uh well and and probably win this race
so
i'm excited about the derby because it's
the derby i'm excited about the oaks
because i think that's a great
race also but there's a dozen to 15
graded steak races you know running this
weekend and they
for the majority they have really really
good deep uh
fields and to me as a fan of the
industry that's what i love
about about horse racing is all of these
top races
all of the big money that's being thrown
around graded stake points and graded
stake
um you know uh um
you know badges that will be earned um
credentials that will be earned over the
next couple of weeks they'll change the
face of
racing as well as breeding values um to
me that's why it's so exciting and then
on top of that i get to work with you
guys
so also mike drop
heart warming how do i follow that john
oh come on alan carlos
um i guess i'm going to weave a lot of
what you guys
said into my commentary here i honestly
joe i
want i want to say the pace is going to
be genuine
it's i don't think it's going to be
breakneck but i think it's going to be a
truly run race
i do think authentics got to go um and
why traffic's gonna go
a thousand words looks like he wants to
be there thereabout so
i think they they can set a pace that's
honest enough
and i don't know that the back markers
will be um
unduly inconvenient so there's hope yet
for finnick
joe although he's got the rail we did
this morning this will be his tenth
start
he's got the missing right eye um
as or left eye as you look at him it's
the fourth time in 10th starts he's got
the
the rail draw which is quite remarkable
really
but um i'm in the camp that
it's an 18 horse field i know tis the
law it has proven to be heads and
shoulders
above his purists to this point i don't
want a three to five shot
in the derby i'm probably playing
honorary p to win
and unfortunately the scratch of our
collective means that
that honor ap starts at a price probably
40 percent
less than what he might have been
instead of eight to one now he's
going to be something around five to one
um
i think he should set he should be
within striking distance and i think
he's one of these horses that has
that real quiet that monarchos
sort of derby burst in him if if they
ride him to use it
um i think he if he's given the right
ride and we can ask mike
mike smith later on if he's given the
right ride i think he can
accelerate i think he's got one of the
best finishing punches in the race
if they choose to ride him that way so
for a long shot pick i'm i landed on
seoul vellante as well
i'm willing to forgive the belmont they
said that he didn't handle the track he
was off 10 days
off of a really impressive one-mile
allowance at gulfstream where he got
back
and ran out nicely um if you can forgive
him belmont
and uh you know three-month layoff i
think he's a live chance to
you know to run into the into the
numbers at uh
at a big price so those are my thoughts
y'all
um i think that thousand words and kingi
here my all kind of make up the
the second you know echelon
of contenders i think thousand words you
know
the shared belief stakes was basically a
great at stake
in terms of who showed up and not having
to be on our ap that day
did get away with a pretty slow pace but
ran a 104 buyer
other than tis the laws 109 in the
traverse like
that's the highest figure in the race uh
and king guillermo is
so interesting because you know he took
he
purposefully took all this time off
between the arkansas derby
and the kentucky derby got to churchill
early has been working
bullets there worked in 58 and one two
works back for five furlongs
and a horse that you know it was a
seemed like a bit of a fluke
when he won the tampa bay derby like he
did and then he
came and backed it up and the arkansas
derby um i don't think he's gonna be 20
to one especially now with the scratch
of our collector i think he'll be closer
to half of that
same thing with thousand words i don't
know that he's quite gonna be 15 to one
especially with that big scratch but
i like finick de fierce i i'm willing to
stick my neck out a little bit for him
i think he you know he was an ascending
type when he ran
third in the arkansas derby he was only
being a length and a half by king
guillermo
and then i think i think his last two
races are a little dirtied
up i think two back he was in an
optional claimer against art collector
was kind of forced out of his game
having to press our collector from the
jump he's more of a one-run type
and he ended up fading the third in that
race we've seen what our collector came
back to do
and then the bluegrass i thought he made
a bit of an early move early wide move
and then he faded to finish seventh i
don't think he's a particularly likely
win candidate i don't love the rail draw
obviously he could have some issues
there
but he's not also not a total plotter
he's not a complete plotter like my
uh derby chase horse enforceable who is
just a deep plotter one run kind of
horse
i think the fears could be a little bit
closer than people realize if he's able
to navigate traffic on that on my
clubhouse turn
um storm the court i i
i think his ohio derby was actually
pretty good from that wide post running
third
uh ran okay last time in the in his turf
race in the
in the la jolla i don't think he's
totally impossible major fed
has been working really well seems to be
sitting on the top effort
um who else i like attachment who al has
for the for the fantasy contest i
thought he ran really well
in the ellis park derby and i think he
was a horse that
you know showed a lot early on with his
big blowout maiden win and just
he ran okay in a couple of stakes but it
wasn't he did he didn't really jump
forward the way
he he suggested he would but i thought
he ran really well in the else park
derby he really took it to
our collector on the far turn and really
ran
flattened out a bit late but i thought
really ran almost every step of the way
really hard there
uh new york traffic not a huge price but
i think he could benefit from
a fairly slow pace um i think it's gonna
be moderate i agree with al
i mean slow pace for the derby is still
like 48 47 and change for the for the
half mile so
you know i don't obviously don't think
they're going to go 50. like it's a new
york turf race
but i think that that it's going to be
reasonable enough that
the horses who are close to the base are
going to be at an advantage
and that includes the favorites law and
how authentic i don't think
our ap is going to be that far out of it
either but i do think it's an
interesting field in
the lower rugs of the trifectas and
superfectus i think he got a chance to
get some prices in there
and get the exotics to pay even if it
chalks out like it looks like it looks
like it might
any other thoughts from you guys yeah
let's
go back to the pace is if authentic goes
from the outside post
which we all think he's going to do does
he clear the field does he get 2
3 in front and where does that put tis
the law i think tis the law
i mean he everything again just lines up
perfectly for him
he looks like he could get a really good
trip i could see him stalking
third you know just maybe two lengths
off uh authentic maybe
even on fourth something like that but i
would be curious to hear from everyone
else
you know where where half mile into the
race where
are where is authentic where is tis the
law where are the other major players
i think the fact that that this race is
devoid of speed
um has more to do with the top
contenders that aren't here
you know i.e nadal and charlton that
that showed so much speed
where you know you have a bunch of
horses that have tactical speed and can
kind of sit off it um where it really
lays it out
you know for an opportunity like a front
runner like a thousand words um to go
out there and kind of slow the pace down
i think we can probably get ahead of
myself but we're going to be saying
similar things about the oaks as well
with gaming where you know if they get
in front and then slow it down
um are they going to have enough left to
kick at the end and and
you know that that's the big discussion
in the 50 million dollar
question um joe i'm gonna i'm gonna
discount
finnick the fierce i know i'm not going
out on a huge limb saying a 50 to one
shot doesn't have a chance to win but
really the only race that that horse
ever won was going 5 8 of a mile in
indiana
um back in its two-year-old year and has
not crossed the wire first
um in in eight other starts so i know
what joe's gonna say
i have one more thing to to say in
defensive finnick the fears he's one of
only two horses
to beat tis the law right okay
he's also he's also the only horse with
one eye in the race i mean we can throw
out crap all
you know that we want but it's i don't
think again i'm not going on a limit
saying a 50 to one shot doesn't have a
chance yeah who do you like don't don't
jump on my 15 to one shot
i don't i'm gonna pick on you on that
one okay pick on the one-eyed horse
um but i love the fact that you like you
know my horse so velante that
that has a legitimate chance um as well
as a couple of long shots
i really feel like that that um
you know one of the other horses that we
haven't spoken about yet
that we probably should make mention of
is um
is our friend well money money moves you
know that
that was the one that that i brought up
earlier on um about how he's impressive
and he's increasing his
his buyer numbers and sheet and
everything like that what do you guys
think that's a thirty to one shot would
you guys have any thoughts on that is
is he just too unseasoned or uh just not
good enough
because he ran a 98 buyer i know that's
not to be on end all but that was an
impressive
race last time out against all their
horses well john i'll bring up an
obvious point about him and i can see
what you're saying but
this horse is making his steak state
view in the kentucky derby
you can only get that in this weird year
and uh obviously he has zero points
you know everybody has gotten away from
the old-fashioned aspect of class
handicapping because we're all slaves to
the figures these days the buyer numbers
etc but you know let's just you know
harken back to uh
you know when people used to consider
those score things can a horse
literally be competitive uh be
competitive in the kentucky derby after
coming out of a
first level allowance win and then
second in the second level allowance win
and has not know as i said never even
run in a stakes race before
and you only would get this in the 2020
kentucky derby when it goes back
hopefully to normal
you never in a million years see a horse
like this even make it into the field
right all right i agree with all that if
i'm hearing you're right then
you're saying that he's got a better
chance than finnick right
i think we've exhausted the finnick the
fierce topic we can we can move on
you're up i can't wait till until he
wins and he becomes the new harvey
boyle of the cdn writer's room listen
i've done so well with my with my picks
for the stable that
you know the owners and trainer of
finnic the fear should be jumping up and
down knowing that i'm off their
bandwagon
don't worry we'll get to that i think al
wanted to say something yeah
so i mean i know that horses like dale
romans
and dallas stewart have had horses run
into the
into the top three giant numbers and so
horses like
uh attachment rate and winning
impression are in this race
as a rule these afterthought sort of
forces winning impression
um i guess not attachment rates so much
but necker island
south bend money moves like i the
they're the first horses that i
that i toss um somebody told me last
night to toss dallas stewart
in races like this and the oaks is um is
dangerous business but um i want to make
one comment about
a thousand words he's in my stable and i
just don't like him
um like he served his purpose for me
he beat honor ap but i mean let's take
it and keep it in some perspective the
shared belief was clearly a means to an
end
for honorary ap um it was a strangely
run race
like thousand words looked like he was
going to get swallowed up at some point
and then just kept sticking on
i mean that whole field including
cezanne who runs in
in the pat day mile um that whole fuel
was covered by what a length and a half
or two lengths
at the wire so it's a hot i mean i know
it graded out
strongly it's a race that i really don't
know what to do with
and i'd much rather have honorary p out
of there than a thousand words
i don't know how much further he wants
means he's bred to go on
but just looking at him the way he runs
um i'm just not sure that that he's
built to stick around for that final
furlong
on on saturday so just a couple thoughts
and none none of us have even talked
about the baffert horse authentic
yeah i mean that's uh that's that's
another one of al's big hopes that he
doesn't like
this i don't know what to do like
honestly yeah he's
um his work the other day
it looked good he was uh 12 and two for
six wrongs out seven and 124 so
i mean he finished up running like for
me the gallop out was was the best part
of it
um still to me like as soon as he breaks
off
he does one of these and he's just he's
just
not a finished product yet um he's a may
fifth full
so he just hasn't put all the other i
mean when he does if he does
look out um like i wanna i want a future
bet on
on the malibu stakes he's my malibu
stakes winner i don't know
if he he runs he's always into the
bridle he's always into the bit he goes
hard
and to me that that makes me wonder if
he's going to see out the distance
as well he's going to be ridden away
from there
he's going to have some company and then
let's see if he's good enough to stay
i'm like i'm not going to
pay to find out alan i agree he's the
good horse that nobody likes
and you know never had a horse won a
grade one
one million dollar race and got so
little credit for it uh then then his
haskell win because of the way
he finished in the way new york traffic
was coming at him and you know i'm i'm
on
of the same uh wavelength you know if
i'm playing
uh exactly and tries and every he's not
even on my tickets let him beat me in
there
but you can see why people don't like
him um you know he's got the baffert
mojo he has a grade one winner but
you know if the race were to mile on a
16th i think i would have to
take him very seriously but i can't at a
mile and a quarter i think
i'm just stating the obvious i i think
everybody has come up with pretty much
the same conclusion
i mean i can't toss them completely just
because i like i said i don't think the
pace is gonna be super fast so i think
he's gonna be able to stick around
i agree that i don't particularly like
him as a win candidate it's interesting
the way
badford has worked him it's been a bunch
of six furlong works in a mile
he worked him a mile on august 25th at
del mar so
that suggests to me that he's not
completely convinced he wants to go in a
mile and a quarter either
and he's trying to put as much
foundation into him as as he can with
the works
i agree that's the first horse who's
ever won a grade one million dollar race
and had his stock downgraded
but he's just he seems he all seems a
little nuts he seems still a little bit
a little bit crazy and i wouldn't be
surprised if he did something silly
um in the final four along there but
that's i wanted to just
quickly segue into into our fantasy
stable before we move on
it's uh i would say that bill and and
john are out of it but i think the other
three of us could all potentially win
uh i look to have a stranglehold on it
with tis the law and art collector
with our collector out now i think that
it's a little bit more open
uh the derby the the winning point total
is
300 for the derby if your horse wins so
um alan bryant or at least you know
within shouting distance and if sizzler
doesn't run well
al's got authentic he's got king
guillermo and he's got attachment rate
and thousand words so i think
al should get she should get props for
getting four horses to the derby
you should get some kind of bonus for
that because that was that that wasn't
easy to do like i only have
i only have two i have this law and
enforceable
john has one no he has two because mr
big news was a late
late edition uh big shot um
bill has won in in new york traffic and
uh
brian has three brian has three he's got
honor ap
max player and then a late edition money
moves got into the gate that was his
supplemental pick which would be
hilarious if brian ends up winning with
his supplemental pick
with all the railing he did against the
supplemental draft
all the complaining that would be that
would be pretty funny but
so yeah i mean i'm i'm like still i'm
probably like tislaw probably like three
to five four to five but
you know it's it's definitely not
impossible for me to be overtaken so
it'll be interesting to see um
if those guys can get the the w and
chisel or runs into a roadblock but
it's been fun it's been a good idea to
do the derby this this little derby
fantasy contest definitely spiced up
the uh the conversation and these you
know this weight has been longer than
the
crimean war to get to the derby so you
know it was a good idea by brian
and thanks to patty and everybody for
for uh setting it up and keeping current
with it
um so we touched on the oaks last week
but now that we have the draw i think
we should run it down a little bit more
because it is such a phenomenal race
with
a couple of really really superstar
potential phillies
um definitely not not the uh
the lower not lower on the marquee for
me
this year um with the oaks is usually
the opening act
to the derby i think this year they're
they have dual top billing
um in louisville obviously gaming
is is the horse to beat she's the
fastest horse in the race
uh she's got questions about going a
mile in an eighth at least
somewhat um but i think she's if she if
she runs her race if she's able to relax
on the lead
i think it's gonna be hard for her for
them to be here but
you know this is in another in another
world and another
kentucky oaks i feel like the mean would
probably be about one to five
in this race but this year with the
competition i don't think that that's
gonna be the case i think she'll
probably be three to five four to five
swiss skydivers eight to five
on the morning line second choice drew
the one hole
which makes things interesting from a
tactical standpoint uh ken mcpeak
said that he's you know he's gonna tell
tyler to send
from the rail and you know maybe maybe
we could get a
hook up early between her and demean and
they kind of just go one two
the entire race i feel like that's
definitely possible speech is the clear
third choice at five to one
uh see if she can run back to her
ashland i think this is a significantly
tougher field than the ashland was um
and she's she's got that one big race
she did run gaming to within a neck
in that optional claim right at oak lawn
so she's got that
mark for her and you know that was
gaming's only two turn try so far
so who knows what that means in terms of
their their compete level
at this point in the oaks i think the
means gotten significantly better but
we'll see by how much
um beyond that i think donovace is a
little
bit interesting she's 15 to 1 in the
morning line i don't know if she's going
to be quite
that high but i think she should be 10
12 to 1 range
i think talent wise she she was right
there with
her the top of her class earlier in the
year and you know she obviously has had
a lot of time off she hasn't run since
the santa isabel march 8th at santa
anita but
um if she has developed in that time and
i think simon callahan is a sharp guy
and he wouldn't
be running her in this race if she
didn't think that she you know has
risen to the level of at least some of
the second tier contenders here
i think she's really interesting she's
got a lot of experience going two turns
um so talent-wise i think she's she's
got a shot if she has developed in the
in the uh
off time seems to have been working well
at del mar worked six furlongs on 11 and
three there
the other day um so beyond that i think
it's a lot of a lot of filler
a lot of long shots that you know don't
really measure up to the
the top contenders especially gaming but
the race to me is all about gabe
and whether or not she's good enough
going a mile on an eighth
to do what she did in the test and in
the acorn because if she does that
it's it's over lights out for everybody
else but it's at least a question
especially
if swiss guy ever takes it to her early
uh some final thoughts on the oaks for
you guys now that we have the post
positions
yeah i mean first of all it is a more
interesting race in the kentucky derby i
mean you can't
ever ever say anything tops the kentucky
derby but if you just want to say
what is the most interesting race what
is the most you know fascinating
compelling race
it's certainly the oaks because of these
two great horses that are going in there
a couple observations and joe you
touched upon this but
i want to add to it i think tyler
gafflione is
in a really interesting position with
swiss skydiver
you know what do they do here we know
that gaming is going to go for the front
do they go after her early and really
take it i mean literally like a
quarter mile into the race and say we're
not going to let you get out there and
get away from us
and we're going to take it right to you
and then if that's the case do they go
some impossibly fast pace
i think even if they did i think that
they're so much better to me than
well maybe not speech and donald j
you're right really are
two very good phillies but i could see
them still you know running one two
because of their superior order there
or does he decide to let gaming get out
there by two or three lengths and just
try to to make his run at her
uh when he gets a chance and not take
any risk of going too hard early
and now here's my in the just whacked
out fantasy world
let me throw this out there and see what
everyone thinks about this
on friday gaming wins the kentucky oaks
by eight lengths you know
fabulous unbelievable race again
on saturday tis the law wins the
kentucky derby you know
goes out and does his job gaming versus
tis the law in the pre-mistakes how do
you like that
not impossible not not impossible you're
right and you can connect the dots and
and say that that would that would be a
really really interesting matchup
especially because so many horses would
fall out
fall off after the derby where they
wouldn't even go to the to the preakness
that would be a really really
interesting race but
gaming's got one hurdle ahead of her
first and that's a swiss skydiver
and and you know swiss skydiver is the
philly that that i've been watching and
saying
this is just you know every race is too
tough of an ask i mean she's run
nine times and she's running eight
different racetracks and it wasn't like
she was running at
monmouth and then parks and then uh
delaware where it's all in the same area
she went from churchill downs to tampa
from tampa to the fairgrounds from from
louisiana back to
miami then to oakland then across
country to santa anita then oh by the
way let's bring her back to keeneland
and run her against the boys in the
bluegrass um in a full field
and then runner a mile and a quarter in
the alabama up at saratoga
and every single race that she's run you
know saved
you know one maybe the rachel alexandra
you would say wow
she is just an unbelievably you know
phenomenal philly to
to watch because i have a tough ass next
to everything
eight tracks at nine different races uh
you know nine different races
a number of different riders a number of
different track surfaces as far as the
consistency of the
of the racetrack across the country she
was a modest thirty five thousand dollar
purchase the king of september versus
some of these
really really well bred phillies uh that
sold for a lot more money
so you know mcpeek obviously knows his
philly very very well he knows where he
can challenge her
and what she can do and the fact that
she's gone uh
and bill i'm gonna steal a line from you
from last show where she's turning back
from a mile and a quarter to a mile and
an eighth versus gaming who's going from
seven furlongs to nine furlongs and then
maybe
at the edge of you know where can mean
uh
gaming's ability can can take her um
that being said
you know gaming's got so much speed
she's gonna be the only philly in the
race that can go
you know 109 and still have something
left hopefully at the end
so it's just a phenomenal david and
goliath type of race
um and and not taking anything away from
a couple of the other horses that we
mentioned donna veloce and speech and
and a couple others
she dares the devil who we haven't even
mentioned yet but also is is an
impressive feeling her own right
um you know this really comes down to
almost a match race for those two
and you could say either one of them if
they won
would be a challenge for tis the law
maybe
in the uh in the preakness so it just
lines up where
it it's going to be a kind of a match
race coming up this week
and then about a month from now maybe an
even better match race
against the boys so
bill i think it's possible um owner
michael lund peterson is the maryland
guy
bought the philly at the maryland sale
um
so i think there's every chance that if
she
runs that way that she'll get that
chance so that would be
that would definitely add some
excitement to the triple crown
um nobody's really giving the speech
the just do that i think she deserves um
i don't think there's anything wrong
with with her ashland
um you know she wasn't the match for
swiss skydiver
uh at san anita but i think she's been
improving philly
um and i am of the opinion that um
bill chance your question i think the
right idea would be
to take a little bit of a hold from her
let her break
take a little bit of a hold of her and
get her outside of gaming
and then hope that she's got the better
stamina
um i would think that would be their
strategy i think speech
sits within shouting distance of those
two and then tries to outstay them
um you know at five to one i think she's
she's definitely bettable i think she's
deserving of being in the wind
discussion so
um and what about the possibility that
donna veloce if she's
out there working um three-quarters of a
mile
and she's going to be fresh couldn't she
be part of the pace
i mean i think there's there's that
possibility as well so
so maybe the maybe the pace could be
extra hot
yeah i think i definitely think we'll
see a quicker pace
uh relative to the par in the oaks uh
rather than the derby um i think i agree
with the david and goliath metaphor
especially since
gaming costs 1.8 million dollars swiss
skydiver costs 35
000. i think that's that's a really
interesting uh way to look at it
but at the end of the day i mean gaming
is too fast on her best day
so that's that's to me what the race is
about and whether or not her best day is
going to be at nine for lungs or not
is the question as far as the preakness
goes like what if she runs and and
crushes them
on on friday why not you know what else
is there unless you want to you know sit
her down
until the dis staff what else is there
for her to run in i mean the zenyatta
at san anita like who cares nobody cares
if you win that race
i mean i guess you know it's a great one
but she's already a grade one winner
multiple grade one winner so
why not why not take a shot against the
boys especially if she shows that kind
of
rocket ship speed and is not you know
they don't even come close to catching
her in the oaks why don't you why
wouldn't you think that she could
go out to the front and do the same
thing in the preakness and maintenance
chase her
obviously we're getting way ahead of
ourselves but i think that it is a
really
interesting potential matchup and if she
does blow them out in the oaks on
saturday i don't see why on friday
i don't see why not why not why not go
after the boys next
we'll see what happens terrific race
really exciting cards
friday and saturday up and down waited a
long time for the oaks and the derby to
come around it's finally here
and uh it even put a smile on grinchy
john green's face so what more
could we ask for we'll be right back
after this message from keeneland
me
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so west point will be represented on
derby day in the derby
with winning impression for dallas
stewart obviously they've had
uh long shots run well for dallas
stewart with like commanding curve in
the past
always dreaming wanted a couple of years
ago so we're glad that the partners
are going to get to experience derby day
even if it's not in person even if it's
not the same
as it usually would be there's nothing
like having a starter in the kentucky
derby
i assume i could never know that but
we're happy and excited for the
for the guys and gals at west point and
hopefully he can outrun his odds and
really threaten like we've seen them do
in the past so good luck to all you
at west point in the derby so earlier
this week we had some
pretty big news uh on the regulatory
front in racing
we had the introduction of the horse
racing integrity
and safety act um and so it's going to
be introduced into the senate by mitch
mcconnell which he's i hear he's a
pretty big deal in the in the senate
in congress uh not too familiar with the
guy but he's from kentucky i believe
um so it's obviously a big thing to have
his push behind it he is the senate
majority leader
uh they're also the so the backers of
the bill spoke monday
of quote newfound compromise and
consensus among the sport stakeholders
um to help usher in that bill and they
also outlined how a nine-member
oversight board known as the horse
racing integrity and safety authority
would craft the new program and how that
authority would contract with the united
states anti-doping agency
otherwise known as usada to manage and
administer the new set of rules
um it says a fresh component would also
cover racetrack safety standards
and that'll also be written into
mcconnell's new version of the bill this
is from td's
jd thornton's reporting in the tdn um
i want to just want to quote the
churchill downs chief executive
bill carstenian i hope i'm getting that
name correct
karstanjin okay thank you um he says the
crux of the bill
is that this new entity the authority
capital a will have jurisdiction over
the design implementation enforcement of
anti-doping and medication controls
as well as racetrack safety protocols um
says with respect to the anti-doping and
medication control program
the authority will contract with usada
which i already said for their services
and managing and
administering the program developed by
the authority says the authority may
also contract with state
racing commissions as it makes sense
both with respect to the medication and
control program and race
track safety program so it was
kind of low on specifics i'm going to
defer to bill on a lot of this
uh it seems like it has the backing of
the majority of the industry
but the the nine-member oversight panel
is going to be mostly
from people outside the industry uh it's
going to be an independent board
um it says it's going to be supported by
two substantive standing committees
one for medication anti-doping one for
track safety a third standing committee
will evolve out of the blue ribbon panel
blah blah blah
blah so it seems like a lot a lot of
words
and not too many commitments on what's
going to happen what we're going to do
i will say that any kind of compromise
and
coordination and cooperation across the
sport is a good thing that's something
we lament
all the time but we had something like
this recently with the racetrack safety
alliance and i'm not sure
how many reforms have definitively come
out of that
so i think that you know while i applaud
any movement
towards uniformity i think definitely
getting usada involved is a very good
thing
we need some outside help when it comes
to regulating medication or sport
obviously i just i would wait to see
what kind of specifics come out of this
it is a big deal though i think mainly
because mitch mcconnell is behind it
and now it has a legitimate chance to
pass the senate
uh bill i'll talk to you first yeah a
couple things and you throw out a lot
there joe first of all
from people who that know a lot more
about this than i do say that this is
going to happen
and the reason why is mcconnell has a
track record of not
uh bringing up legislation when he when
he doesn't know that it's a sure thing
that he's not going to have look bad
with egg all over his face and bring up
legislation not have it go
and in this you know highly polarized
world that we live in right now this is
the ultimate bipartisan issue i mean
you know democrats like horses
republicans like horses people in red
states like horses people in blue states
like horses and want
good things to happen for horses so i am
very optimistic that this
is going to happen and we are going to
have this new
you know alphabet organization etc and i
understand your skepticism this is the
843rd you know alphabet organization
that will be out there
and come up with and you're also right
about something else we need to
learn a lot more about this for the
specifics about you know things like
again questions people raised how is it
going to be paid for is lasik's going to
be okay is lasik's not going to be okay
um and that sort of thing but to me what
this all comes down to and reason why i
think this is a really good thing
for horse racing and look you know
they're all they're gonna have
uniformity so you have the same
butte withdrawal rules in delaware that
you have in arizona who cares nobody
cares
but that you know that that's one of the
things that they're touting to me this
is all about usada
and what i wrote and we go back to jason
service and jorge navarro
and if anybody out there thought that
horse racing was doing a good job
dealing with cheating well how could you
possibly think that
after navarro service and the
indictments you know
we they the sport has had a 200 years to
try to work on this problem and fix it
and they can't do it and it took the
federal government to come in
and do their dirty work for them and as
i've said a couple times in this podcast
federal government is going to go away
and racism can be left to its own
devices usada is
an organization that knows what they're
doing they got lance armstrong they've
kept the olympics clean
the sport of horse racing will be a lot
better off and a lot cleaner
when you know the new sheriff in town
comes in travis tiger and his boys
and they're out there trying to catch
these guys and they're out there doing
everything that we think
should be done to clean up the sport so
of the
the dozen or so aspects that this bill
has brought up
and the things that it's going to cover
to me i don't care about 11 i care about
12. i care about usada i care about
travis tiger
and i think anybody uh who has been
preaching like we have for almost a year
now about
the need to clean up this sport should
be very
happy that it looks like this major step
is likely to happen though
yeah and quite simply this is one of the
reasons why i'm so excited today also is
that we've been we've been begging and
canvassing
for some kind of uniform set of rules
but more importantly
for an organization to be overseeing the
testing and enforcing the rules
um and the penalties that come up with
people who cheat
i mean you know people have have been
listening to our podcast for a year and
they've
heard us bang the table you know really
since march um that we need uniformity
and that the industry as a whole
wants to have some kind of set of rules
and an organization to oversee it and
then most importantly to have
a bite in the penalties um if somebody
fails
you know to to abide by the rules um so
this is a great step
the fact that you have the organizations
behind it is fantastic the fact that you
have
like bill said um you know you have a
very strong person in dc
and who resides in kentucky and
understands the importance of the
industry
to the kentucky residents and his
condition constituents
it's just all falling together and um
bill like you said it took us two
centuries as an industry
to get to this point and it took the
government and the powers that be
six months really to come up with with a
solution and hopefully this one is going
to catch and this one is going to
um you know take hold and be a part of
the fabric of the industry
that really needs to have this kind of
of an oversight committee
and rules and regulations and an
authority to actually follow through
with it so
i couldn't be happier about it
and i think as important as it is for
horse racing insiders to know that this
can be or might be coming like it's
equally important for those on the
outside we've been talking for
months and months about the public
perception of horse racing and
if the public sees governmental
or federal intervention at that sort of
level and
if the program yields results give
something
some people to latch on to that hey
these guys are really
on the job they're doing the job and and
they're weeding out
the bad stuff so i think that can only
be a good thing i mean
i do think it's you know it's a great
thing that uh that senator mcconnell
is behind it obviously that that carries
some weight and ibarra from kentucky was
i was on the stage as well he's
previously introduced
legislation with his democratic
counterpart paul tonko
in the house and um he spoke of
um i don't know what exact language was
but
basically mirroring the bill in the
house of representatives that gets
sent to them from the senate which might
um
streamline the passage of something like
that nancy pelosi is
um obviously across the aisle from from
mitch mcconnell
but um you know dianne feinstein also
from california has been
uh vocal on the on the democratic side
but i mean
you would have to believe that there
would be bipartisan support for it and
why not like bill said
um it's an issue that everybody can sort
of get behind so
i think it's a step in the right
direction you know let's see what
happens in in practice let's see how
long it takes to implement let's see how
they pay for it but
but on the surface obviously it's a good
thing for
for the game yeah i mean i totally agree
with what you guys said
and echo what bill said about you know
usada being the most important part of
it because
racing is very good at creating boards
at creating panels creating new alphabet
organizations and has
so far been very not good at actual
enforcement
so i think that getting an outside indus
an entity especially one
with as much credibility as usada is a
big thing
in terms of cleaning up our sport and
how this thing is going to work
it's fortunate in this case that the
senate majority leader happens to be
from the biggest horse industry state in
the country
i think that that what really helped us
out here in terms of getting this thing
eventually onto the senate floor um you
know i can't i can't
comment on the specifics of the bill
because i haven't you know haven't
delved into it that deeply um but i what
al said about andy barr and paul tonko
those guys
have been pushing this for a long time
um so there's a lot of hard work in
those two offices that have have gotten
this to this point
um and yeah like the main thing is to
get the enforcement of medication rules
outside of the hands of racing and
that's it so you know it sounds like an
indictment because it kind of is
but that's the main thing and i think
i'm glad that people in racing are
have started to recognize that and
realize that you know we
we're not good at policing ourselves
we're not good at
you know uniformity and cooperation in
general i think it's getting better
but this is something that needs to be
taken outside of the sport and be an
independent
enforcement agency and i think that you
know that's that's the key takeaway from
this bill and
you know like al said who knows how long
this is from passing who knows how long
it is from being set up and implemented
um but it's it's a step in the right
direction for sure
but uh we're gonna have to wait for more
specifics in terms of the actual
the actual bill and its effects joining
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we'll be right back after this message
from west point thoroughbreds
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our green group guest of the week this
week is a major celebrity
in the horse racing world we are so
excited to bring him on
mike smith thank you for joining us mike
yeah thanks for having me on of course
um so
you will be on honor ap in the derby in
a couple of days um you're
you're a past derby winner obviously
with justify and giacomo you know a lot
about writing in this race
i wanted to ask about honor ap first
seems like a horse who has developed
steadily
over time ran second last time in the
shared belief
how have you seen him grow and what
makes you think that he's
about to run the best race of his life
well
the shared belief was uh you know after
the san andreas derby
which was a mile and eighth we shortened
we their shared belief was a minor 16.
so it's shortened back up
and he didn't get a whole lot of uh you
know serious training in between the two
races you know they certainly wanted him
to be peaking at this time you know and
and not
then so you know i think his best work
going into that race was a 102
or something like that very slow so he
kind of just run a little bit sluggishly
and finally come running at the end and
actually they still ran really well he
ran 102 buyer i believe to run second so
that was good
but since then we really stepped up his
training we really put some sharp works
into him and then
after his two really sharp works we just
did a kind of maintenance work last time
out man he did it
so nice i think he went seven eighths of
a mile in 27 127 and galloped out in 40
which was really
really good he did all on his own so
he's coming into the
to the derby training extremely well and
and really
fine-tuned and fit to run his best
effort
hey mike it's bill finley thanks for
joining us and even though you're not
riding him let's get your take on
authentic as well
because you did ride him up through his
last race in the haskell and
a lot of people are commenting in the
fact that he still seems a little bit
immature
he hasn't really figured the game out
and also a lot of people don't think
he's necessarily
a mile and quarters a sweet spot for him
again understanding you're not riding
him but you certainly know a lot about
him
your take on him and if you could answer
those uh two particular questions about
his perceived maturity and his ability
to go a mile and quarter
well early on i mean he was yeah he used
to look around a whole lot bill he would
kick away from his his competition so
easy so talented he's a very athletic
course
and he would kick away from so easy and
kind of just leave him out there on his
own he'd get to looking around a lot
which he did a little bit in the
in the haskell but not not as bad as he
had done in the past so
he's certainly getting better about it
and then again yeah i mean the distance
would be the
the question with him uh again sometimes
you know these horses
you think it's going to be a problem and
then they go out there on the lead and
they just keep on running uh
but he's he's got the he certainly has
the talent he deserves to be there he's
a
very athletic course i i see him if they
want to be built i see him on
on the lead probably on his own
especially with our collector out now
uh so hopefully he won't you know he'll
have some sort of company that that will
keep him
keep the pace honest anyway and then uh
i shouldn't be too far off of
probably him uh new york traffic and uh
and tears the law so mike when you
handicap this race and you look at your
horse in comparison to the other group
obviously it's a
it's an unusual race in the sense that
uh there are so many
participants in it how do you you know
when you close your eyes and and think
about the way that the perfect race
would be for on our ap
how would that set up for you is it
having a couple of speed horses and you
sit on the outside is it you tucking in
on the rail and saving ground
just give us an idea of what like the
picture perfect race would be in your
mind
well means i got the 16th hole i mean it
would probably
be a whole lot of work to try and get
tucked in down on the rail uh
but the speed is to the outside
hopefully they'll they'll you know we'll
all break well and break running
and i can just kind of follow him on
over and and just hopefully have a clear
trip on the outside of him
and that would be good for him because i
again i i think he's the horse that
wants the distance you know uh
in his race going a mile on eighth and
when he trains in the morning
the best part of everything is at the
very end i mean he's he seems to just
keep on going so the mile and quarter
should be right up his alley and i'm
hoping i can
really get marching forward at the three
and a half so that the quarter point i
don't have a lot to make up and then
just see if he's good enough to run on
by who's ever been fortunate enough to
hit the front
hey mike it's alan carrasso it's uh
honored to have you on with us
appreciate it
yeah uh obviously
you've ridden uh derby winner before for
john sheriffs
wrote a triple crown winner for bob
baffert how difficult
at the end of the day was it for you to
decide to ride honor ap over authentic
uh you know they were they're they're
one up i mean they're tied with each
other you know the first time they ran
against each other uh authentic uh beat
on our ap
we'd come off a foot injury had missed
some time so i knew he wasn't 100
going in that race now in the san nido
derby i knew he was and then you know
the
extra eighth of a mile i was really
happy to to see the way he ran and i
thought that
the distance would really suit him well
then i got the opportunity to write
authentic although he ran really good he
probably didn't run his a-race uh that
day but he still pulled it off
but again i i you know i just truly
think that that when
we're gonna go a mile eighth and further
that's when you see honor ap really
start to shine and really start to stand
out and uh
and that's just what made my mind up i
think he'll get the distance i think the
mountain quarters again
i can't i can't wait to see what he does
going on in my own quarter
i wanted to ask you about your previous
derby wednesday it came from him with
very
different circumstances i remember with
giacomo i remember you saying early in
his career that he reminded you
of holy ball and he kind of had fallen
off a little bit
for a while there and then shocked
everybody at 50 to 1.
and justify was a much shorter price he
was much more heralded coming into the
derby
can you reflect on those two rides and
maybe the kind of different pressure you
felt and the different feelings you got
after winning well with giacomo i mean
uh
you know he looks like a lot like his
dad he didn't have the same running
style and
he wanted to put his horse as his father
was as far as the racehorse
was was but he was uh he was a horse
that was you know we're running out west
where the tracks were really fast at the
time
they weren't suiting him but he was
still running extremely well in all the
preps he would run second or third
really gallop out strong so i knew that
once we got off
the west coast racetracks and once we
got to go a little farther he was gonna
he was gonna excel he's gonna run better
was it going to be good enough for him
to uh
to win the derby i wasn't really sure
but i was talking myself into it you
know i'd written his father in the derby
and he was a big favorite and
and he probably ran probably his worst
race that he actually ran
uh was in the derby uh and so i just
wanted to redeem his father's name so to
say you know so i was kind of using that
for
for for to keep me pumped up and keep me
excited about it all and
and then the more i looked at the race
and especially after
they drew it i saw that that man this
pace is going to be
really hot and then the horses that that
sit off the pace if if that pace could
drag him into it a little bit this could
really set up for me and that's exactly
what happened
uh so we were 51 we didn't have a whole
lot of pressure on us going into that
one uh
now going into you know when i was with
justify
a whole different story i mean we had
all the hype he was the horse to beat we
actually believed that he had the kind
of talent that could pull off
a triple crown uh kind of thing if we
were blessed enough to
you know of course win the first you
know first one under the second and on
the last but
he was that kind of horse so there was a
whole lot more pressure with him
now going in this year with the honorary
p again this is a horse that i think
has a legitimate chance uh i mean we all
saw tis the law's last race but that
doesn't mean they're always going to
come back and run that same kind of race
and
you know i think that if i'm within a
length or two of them heading for home
i'm not without a big chance to maybe
run them all down run them all
down mike since we brought it up i want
to go back to holy bowl and
he was terrific before the kentucky
derby of many shows already won the
bluegrass
he was terrific after the kentucky derby
won the met mile
it was one of probably one of the two or
three most talented horses you've ever
ridden
he didn't run a step not once
in kentucky i mean out of the gate he
didn't show any speed
is it just one of those things or d all
these years later do you have any
theories why that is
you know bill i i honestly don't think
he cared for churchill that much
when i go back and really think about it
and look at it they breached him
three-eighths of a mile he was over at
kingman training he was working dynamite
and they came over to just to blow him
out of three eighths of a mile and he
went like in
it was unbelievably slow i mean you
couldn't get holy bullet go backwards
that slow i think it was like a
39 or something like that for 3 8 it was
like he didn't even
he didn't even work good over it which
was which was strange
and he and that's just kind of the way
he was uh
in the post parade and in the gate he
was just
nothing was there he just went one one
you know i was i was more worried i
thought the only thing could get me beat
us up if i fell off him in the post
parade because he was pretty aggressive
in the post parade he'd play a lot and
rare up and all this
crazy stuff and he did none of that that
day and and ran that way he just ran
very very flat
mike since we're going back in some of
the best horses you've ever ridden
when bob baffert was on the show a
couple of months ago
you know we asked him out of all the
horses you've trained who was the the
best horse you ever had and
he didn't give us the best horse but he
said you know the best races
that i've ever trained a horse from or
i've ever seen a burst competing
was arrogate which obviously you were a
big part of uh
and and he mentioned you know going from
the traverse to the breeder stuff
classic
to the pegasus world cup um to the dubai
world cup and just said that those races
back to back to back to back we're just
you know off the charts walk us through
a little bit on
the the top money earner that that's
ever uh graced this earth
you know at a mile and a quarter man
just all out
probably of all of them that i've ever
been blessed enough to have ridden i
don't think uh
i think even the numbers show that that
arrowgate was probably the fastest uh
he was just a just a cool horse to ride
great to be he had a high cruising speed
uh
and he had stamina that just never
stopped i mean he just seemed to go
faster and faster and faster i remember
the travers uh
and we had we were running pretty pretty
quick and we had him from home and i
asked him a run and he just picked it up
like it was nothing and just continued
on it was pretty incredible
you know and to come back and see him
break the track record and
run him on the quarter in under two
minutes was was unbelievable
and then he went into the into the
breeders cup
uh and was able to to run down
california chrome and uh
you know california chrome that that
they probably got a pretty soft pace i
mean he went pretty easy up front and i
thought he was gonna be very difficult
to run down and for him to run him down
i thought was incredible
go on into the pegasus he we probably
pretty much used that as a
he kind of used that as a as a work to
get into the to the world cup he won so
easy in the pegasus uh
and he needed every bit of that because
as you remember watching the world cup
he gets away slow they squeeze him out
of the gate uh i got absolutely no
chance i'm dead last i'm supposed to be
you know
laying at least second maybe third you
know at worst and here i am let dead
last about 15 behind the field and
and for him to to just creep back into
that race and then finish the way he did
and then beat a horse like gun runner
and doing it was uh
was the ultimate the only bad thing was
after that we came to del mar and del
mar was a place he just never really
cared for the tracks at the time uh
especially steel actually that we're
very very deep uh
deep deep race tracks it seemed like the
stronger you are the deeper you go into
the ground and
he just never cared for that track even
before the travers you know he won
a little prep race before the travers uh
there at saratogas a three horse
field and he won but he just did win
i mean the horse that he beat that day
actually didn't win a race again to los
alfo claiming eight
you know so that's how much you hated
delmar but you get him off of del mar
man and
he's never beat
mike one thing that marvel about your
career is the number of
hall of fame the staffers that you've
sat on
um azeri inside information song bird
obviously
zenyatta um midnight beezu probably
isn't
quite in that same discussion but
obviously with a really nice
race mare you've been away from her now
for a couple times
can you talk to us about how that's been
missing last couple rides on her and
and what is the outlook for uh for this
year's to staff will be able to ride her
this year
uh yeah first of all yeah i really
missed her you know we didn't get a
chance to you know as you all know i
i traveled quite a bit and with all
these you know protocols and not being
able to go into
into saratoga really really kind of mess
my summer i'll crush my summer up pretty
good to be honest with you
but uh yeah i've been blessed every time
i
you know every time i get a ride in one
of these mares and i think well that's
that's the end of that i'll never get
another one like that one well then here
comes another one and here comes another
one then here comes one like
you know zenyatta who's probably the
greatest mayor of all times
and then after her you know i was even
blessed with songbird and a unique bella
and then along comes
uh midnight ibizu uh and finally i do
get to get
get back on her i saw the protocols in
kingman so you get to fly in you just
got to get in and take a
test before you ride and clear a test
and that's pretty much it
there so i'm going to get to rider back
she's going to run there on the
october i think it's the second i'm not
positive but i think it's october 2nd
but so i'm excited about that i'm so
excited to get reunited with her i just
wanted to ask about your riding style
because you're known as a big money race
writer you don't ride the quantity of
horses that some other
guys do but i think you know if you want
a guy to win a big race
you're one of the top two or three guys
most people would pick
and just from an outsider layman's
perspective you seem to be a very
calm guy during the race you don't seem
to ever panic
you have a laid-back personality too
honestly so it makes sense in that way
but you know where does that kind of
come from that kind of calm
when all the eyes are on you usually as
a big favorite
how do you how do you stay relaxed how
do you stay even during these big races
well i'm certainly calm but inside i i'd
be lying to you if i told you i wasn't i
wasn't nervous i
if you ain't nervous then you're not up
for the up for the race or up for the
game that you got it's just how you use
that energy you know and i've just
learned to slow it down
i think just with you know getting the
opportunity to ride with great riders
and learning from them and watching them
and and
and knowing that panicking ain't gonna
help anything you know you get away
step slow you wind up rushing into a
fast pace or something like that it's
just
learning to really get a horse into a
rhythm
and once you get a good horse into a
rhythm you just point them in the right
direction and they're going to run
you know and so you get them into a good
comfortable rhythm you give them a place
to go when it's time
you know try and set up a good trip for
them and then and i
you pull the trigger they're gonna
they're gonna fire
hey mike um you're doing what you're
doing at an age 55 years old where
most jockeys have either retired or on
the tail end of their career or not
riding nearly as well or achieving what
they did in their 40s
what is possible now i mean do you think
about an end do you think about how much
longer you want to go on
and what do you think will be the
ultimate reason why you might say okay
this is it i am retiring
at times you know i think about you know
retiring and but then i think well
where else am i going to have this kind
of fun i mean i'm actually having a
blast right now getting the opportunity
to ride
you know just in these big races and and
if i did anything right early on in my
career deal
i really took up physical fitness
instead of you know
you know going out playing golf and not
doing a whole lot i mean
every morning i just made it a way of
life i i literally i train every morning
if i'm not training myself i have
two different personal trainers that
train me probably at least five times a
week
and i go at it pretty pretty hard and
i've been doing it for a long time and
it's starting to pay off
my later years i mean i'm every bit as
fit
as far as my charts are going i'm still
as fit as i was 10 years ago so
for some reason i'm hanging in there and
as long as i can continue to do that i
plan to ride another few years
if i start feeling that i'm not i'm
hurting them and i'm not helping them
and i'm
you know you can you'll be able to see
it off there it just starts to whenever
it starts when i start embarrassing
myself then i'm i'm i'll call it quits
if you see me embarrass myself you tell
me
i think you're aways from that i think
you're all right for now mike i just
have one more question for you um just
because
probably after this year mckenzie's
going to retire and and stand at stud
tell the audience about what you think
about mackenzie and and all the races
that that you've written
when when you think of mckenzie what's
the you know what comes through your
mind
you know he's one of those throwbacks of
of the old good horses man i mean
he can run you know three quarters of a
mile
and you can stretch him out the
following race going a mile and eight
you can back him back up to a mile
you can go ahead and try a mile and a
quarter with him and he'll fire and run
huge every time i mean he's a really
really you know talented horse
uh you know early on in his
three-year-old career he got hurt a
little bit
and and maybe never really got to be
where he really could have
been but in saying that he's still
competing at the highest of levels and
i wouldn't be surprised if uh if he'll
if he'll handle this
uh if you'll come back i mean last year
in this same race the alishiba he was he
was amazing that day i think he set the
track record that day but he really took
to churchill downs he really liked it
so i'm hoping that's the case again and
if that's the case he's gonna run big
again on fridays so
they're they're excited about that then
after that they'll just they'll decide
where they're gonna
where they're gonna point him as far as
breeders cup whether that be the mile or
or the classic all right mike we can't
thank you enough for joining us best of
luck this weekend safe trip and we hope
to see you riding for a while because if
you don't then you could never come on
an illustrious podcast like this one
it's alright well i appreciate it man it
was great talking to you guys thanks
mike go get them
thank you thank you thank you the green
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so barclay tag made some unfortunate
news yesterday
when he was doing a little bit of press
for the derby after just
landing in louisville he was asked about
the protests
that are expected to happen all week
we've touched on it on the show before
here's what he had to say you know we go
back to the hotel we have a driver takes
it back to hotel brings us here in the
morning and
we train the horse and i don't know i
don't know what these guys are going to
do with
these riders i don't who knows
all i know is you're not allowed to
shoot them and they're allowed to shoot
you that's what it looks like to me
so i don't know what to think about it
um so i thought those comments were
incredibly disappointing and
unnecessary and really kind of inflaming
things for no reason and it just goes to
show you how
pervasive and how dangerous the racial
unrest and rhetoric particularly on one
side
is in this country right now and barclay
to me seemed like he just couldn't help
himself
probably because he's been riled up by
the president and i know people don't
want to hear this but
you can draw a direct line in my eyes
from trump saying
when the looting starts the shooting
starts to one of his die hard supporters
murdering two people last week in the
street
and his refusal his refusal condemn it
and it's just
insane on its face first of all it
serves no purpose but to inflame
but that's where we are and it's where
we are as a society
and it's also where we are as an
industry and it's kentucky derby week
and the trainer of the favorite is
lamenting the fact that quote you can't
shoot them
one week after a right-wing militant
killed two of them
in the street and this will now be one
of the major stories that overwhelms
what should be a week of celebration for
our sport
just when racing is starting to finally
recover from the pr
nightmare surrounding last year's
breakdowns at santa anita so
we appreciate that barclay thanks for
that and you know i think the bigger
the bigger implication here is you
wonder why there's no diversity in
racing
and we were hesitant to talk about it as
four white guys recently but i feel
pretty comfortable saying that people
like barkley tag are one of the main
reasons why there's no diversity in
racing to pretend
that there isn't this substantial amount
of generational hostility
to diversity diversifying our sport is
absurd to me
and i think the situation is improving
but when the trainer of the kentucky
derby favorite
unprovoked equates protesters the
majority of which are black
and vast majority of which are 100
peaceful to rioters
who he complains that he can't shoot why
would a person of color ever think
that's an industry that would welcome me
and it's especially
contradictory when this year for the
first time in 13 years we
we have black owners of a derby horse
necker island has two african-american
owners
and those owners support the black lives
matter movement and this is what they
have to put up with
in horse racing in 2020. so i just it
didn't
it wasn't necessary and it just it it
shows how much work we have to do
in this sport to get rid of this racist
underbelly
that people don't want to exist but
really does exist and
i think barkley let everybody down and
it's unfortunate because otherwise tis
the law is a very you know
likable horse new york bread sakatoga
stable jack nolton's always been good
with us and with the media
and there's really no reason for me to
root against them but now i'm going to
be kind of grossed out honestly if he
wins on saturday
and it's just it was it was disgusting
and it was it was
unnecessary uncalled for and it it
really is a reflection of where we are
as a society as
an industry all right so that's going to
do it for this week's edition of the tdn
writers room presented by keeneland
remember keeneland september
starts september 13th that's next sunday
uh while the action will be streamed on
the tdn website and on keyland.com
i want to thank bill finley john green
alan carrasso our green group guest of
the week mike smith
our producer patty wolf our editors
anthony laraca and danny danny seiper
and our production coordinator michelle
sabrino
thank you so much for watching have a
great blast of a derby weekend
we will see you next week and wear a
mask
