

### Frequently Asked Questions:

### Divine Truth

### By

### Jesus (AJ Miller)

### & Mary Magdalene (Mary Luck)

### Session 4

Published by

Divine Truth, Australia at Smashwords

http://www.divinetruth.com/

Copyright 2016 Divine Truth

Smashwords Edition, License Notes

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### This ebook is a collection of answers given by Jesus (AJ Miller) on the topic of God's Truth (Divine Truth). The answers were given in an interview with Mary Magdalene (Mary Luck), who posed frequently asked questions from members of the media and public, on 23rd September 2013 in Wilkesdale, Queensland, Australia. In this session Mary questions Jesus about providing more detail about some of the specific "qualities" or "attributes" of God's Truth, and how the examination of these qualities can be applied practically in our personal daily lives. Qualities eleven and twelve, that Jesus mentioned in the last question of the first session on the subject, are discussed in far more detail in this session. Jesus has much more to say about the subject, but is here providing an introduction to each "quality" or "attribute".

### Reminder From Jesus & Mary

### Jesus and Mary would like to remind you that any document produced by Divine Truth containing any information from Jesus, Mary or any other person includes only a portion of God's Truth that they have personally discovered.

### It does not and cannot contain the entire of God's Truth since God's Truth is infinite and humankind will forever continue to discover more of God's Truth as we progress in receiving more of God's Love.

### Please remember that due to these limitations information contained within this document may need to be revised in the future.

### Many other ebooks have been published by Divine Truth, including ebooks translated into a variety of different languages.

### Please visit <http://www.Smashwords.com/profile/view/DivineTruth> or www.divinetruth.com for further information.

### Additional sessions on the subject in this book can be found on www.Smashwords.com/profile/view/DivineTruth

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Table of Contents

0. Introductory comments

1. Quality eleven: What do you mean when you say that, "Living out of harmony with Divine Truth results in penalties or consequences"?

2. Regarding quality eleven, what does a soul-based understanding that "Living out of harmony with Divine Truth results in penalties or consequences", look like in my personal life?

3. Quality twelve: What do you mean when you say, "Divine Truth is demonstrated by actions, supported by evidence - scientific, emotional, physical and spiritual"?

4. Regarding quality twelve: What does a soul understanding that "Divine Truth is demonstrated by actions, supported by evidence scientific, emotional, physical and spiritual" look like in my personal life?

0. Introductory comments

Well welcome to session four of our discussion about Divine Truth. Mary is with me again today and we are going to discuss a few more qualities of Divine Truth. Remember in the first session we discussed what Divine Truth was and how it contrasts to personal truth, and we also discussed some of the qualities of Divine Truth, but not in very much detail. Then when we came to the second session we discussed the first seven qualities of Divine Truth in a lot more detail. So remember these are the qualities of Divine Truth or God's Truth that you can use to determine whether something you see on Earth or in the spirit world, or in any aspect of life, is true or not. And so we discussed the first seven qualities in the second session. In the third session I think we only covered three qualities actually.

**Mary:** Yes, eight to ten.

Eight to ten in the third session. In this session we're hoping to cover the last four qualities that we wanted to discuss with you, but we're not sure whether we're going to get through all of that material either, so we'll just see how we go.

**Mary:** We get a bit excited about this topic, don't we?

Yes. So bear in mind that all of this material is the basic lead-in material to how you can determine what God's Truth is, in contrast to what is other people's personal truths, which are not necessarily God's Truths, and all of God's Truths have these qualities that we've been discussing in these sessions. And so what we'd like to do now is discuss the next four qualities if we get that far. So welcome to our discussion and I hope you enjoy it.

1. Quality eleven: What do you mean when you say that, "Living out of harmony with Divine Truth results in penalties or consequences"?

Well we need to remember that Divine Truth is God's Truth and we can use the term God's Truth interchangeably with God's Laws, laws that govern the Universe. So all of God's Truths if you like are all laws, they are written in stone in the sense that they are unbreakable, you can't modify them or change them. There is a hierarchy of laws though, so we need to discuss some of that with this section, but basically whenever we refer to God's Truths we're referring to God's Laws and like all laws, if you break the law there is a consequence or a penalty for breaking the law. Also like all laws if you live up to the law or live in harmony with the law there are benefits or pleasures that come from living in harmony with the laws.

So all of God's Truths have this underlying quality and that is every single one of God's Truths is a law and every single one of God's Laws has a benefit for living in harmony with it and a negative consequence for living out of harmony with it. You could call the negative consequence a penalty for living out of harmony with it, and that is the way God has structured the Universe in fact.

Now if we can understand that, then we start to understand why we experience pain and suffering, why we experience other things - other than pleasure \- and we can start to understand that every single time pain and suffering is involved in our life, it's an indication that we've broken a Law of some kind; it might not even be a law that we are conscious of, but we obviously have broken it; otherwise we would not be in pain and suffering.

And every one of God's Law's let's call them, or every one of God's Truths, are in harmony with love, so that means that every time we act out of harmony with love, we are going to be breaking one of God's Truths or breaking one of God's Laws. And because we're breaking it, we are now going to engage the penalty or the negative consequence that comes from breaking the law. And we need to at least start to understand that if we are truly going to understand how to determine God's Truths.

There is a constant opinion on the Earth that there is no such thing as absolute truth - there's just your truth, my truth - and there's this constant idea or concept, particularly spiritually, less so materially, but spiritually applied where basically there's a belief that you can get away with anything. That's not true and while we believe that, we are out of harmony with many of the Laws of Love and also God's Truths, and as a result we are going to experience the pain and suffering that comes from being out of harmony with those particular things.

So what we need to do with this particular quality is understand that we will have negative consequences if we break the truth or we break the law and there will always be positive benefits from upholding the law, or upholding the truth - that's what we really need to understand.

Now from a physical perspective most people have no trouble with that again, so as we've discussed with the previous qualities it always seems from a physical perspective, very few people have any trouble with understanding that if you break a law, there's going to be a consequence.

**Mary:** Well it's hard to distance ourselves from the consequences, isn't it? It's physical so ...

It's physical in nature and we feel it instantly and so we generally accept it. From a scientific point of view we generally also accept it. So for example with the Law of Gravity, we know that if we break the Law of Gravity - in other words we don't engage the law in harmony with its use - for example we go up to a very, very high building and we decide that we're going to jump off and if we have no other means other than our own body and no other law that we have engaged, once we jump off, gravity will take its effect and pull us down to the ground at the acceleration, in our case on Earth of 9.8 metres per second, and we'll hit the ground at a very fast rate, depending on how high we were when we began the fall. And of course if we were ten stories high there's a high chance that we'll kill ourselves in that process and that would be the consequence of the law. And nobody goes, "Oh it's a terrible consequence." (Laughs)

**Mary:** "It's not fair."

"It's not fair," or any of those things; everybody just accepts it because it's a physical consequence of breaking a particular law that we understand.

There are also, in this illustration that I'm giving about the Law of Gravity, laws that allow us to overcome the Law of Gravity - you could call them higher laws, and this illustrates that there is a hierarchy of law that applies to the physical side of life.

So for example the Law of Aerodynamics, we've discovered the laws involved with aerodynamics and controlled flight. In other words and so we know that if we strap something to our back and engage the Law of Aerodynamics when we jump off the building there's a high likelihood we'll be very, very safe; much safer than we were without the apparatus that engages the Law of Aerodynamics. So you could say the Law of Aerodynamics doesn't stop the Law of Gravity from operating, the Law of Gravity is still operating, but the Law of Aerodynamics allows us to engage a higher law that allows us to control the Law of Gravity, in such a way that we are not adversely affected by it, and so therefore there is a hierarchy of physical laws.

Now of course there are a lot of physical laws that mankind hasn't even discovered yet, even though the scientists would want to believe that we've discovered most of them - many scientists wish to believe that. The reality is that there are a whole lot of physical laws that we haven't discovered yet, which are all higher than the Law of Aerodynamics. So once we discover those, then the Law of Gravity will have less and less of a negative effect on our life and more and more it will just be engaged in complete harmony with love, because we understand all of these other laws that give us more freedom.

So understanding the laws gives us freedom, it doesn't create control. When we don't understand a higher law that's when we have less freedom, that's when we have to be in more control.

So we need to understand this principle of a hierarchy of laws; that each law has as a consequence physically. So for looking at these physical laws, the Law of Gravity for example, each law has a consequence for breaking it. So if we engage the Law of Gravity and we break it, obviously there'll be a consequence and the consequence will probably, depending on our height from the ground, result in our death or major harm to our physical body, or major pain, and might even result in long-term suffering as a result of our choice.

Once we engage the Law of Aerodynamics, as long as we engage the higher law in its full understanding we can sort of overcome the negative effects of the Law of Gravity, under certain circumstances, and while the higher law is in engaged, now we have no negative circumstances. But as soon as the higher law is not engaged, let's say our wings fall off, (laughs) or we have not enough forward propulsion or forward movement to control the flight, in other words we stall, now the Law of Gravity takes effect and pulls us down to the Earth. And so the Law of Gravity is always operating, but it has been overcome by the higher law, which allows us to have more freedom.

This is a beautiful, positive benefit of discovering new laws. So new truths of God being discovered results in positive benefits and more freedom, this is why I said in the first century, "The truth sets you free."

**Mary:** Yes, only if we act in harmony with what we learn.

Only if we act in harmony with the law; when we act out of harmony with the truth, or out of harmony with the law, now there are going to be negative consequences for our engagement of the law in the way in which it is out of harmony with its purpose.

So the purpose of the Law of Gravity is quite clear, it keeps us on the Earth; it stops us from flying into space. If we didn't have it, with the Earth spinning so rapidly, I think it's over 1500-1600 kms per hour, we are spinning so rapidly that because of the centrifugal force we'd fly out into space if there wasn't an alternative force such as the Law of Gravity that pulls us back to the Earth and keeps us here. We would also have no oxygen to breathe because all of that would have flown into space as well. So it creates a lot of good things for us here on the Earth, and every single one of God's Laws does this; they all create beautiful things that are completely in harmony with love, with love of ourselves. God's loving ourselves by creating these laws and so we need to understand that every single one of these laws exists and its purpose is love. Its purpose is to create a loving environment in which we can survive. So that's our physical laws.

Now if we start to examine higher laws, there are higher laws that are related to morality: these are the laws that humankind generally doesn't understand at all, and therefore breaks frequently, and therefore experiences the pain and suffering that comes from the consequence of breaking the law, or breaking the truth, or not knowing the truth. As a result of that we have a lot of pain and suffering that exists on the planet that we then accept as normal, but it's not actually normal from God's perspective. It comes as a result of breaking moral laws.

And then there are higher laws again, and you could call them the spiritual laws. These are the laws that govern our spiritual body, the way in which our spirit body interacts with the Universe. They are laws again that allow us to engage and if we engage them we will experience the benefits, but if we don't engage them, or we try to break them, we'll experience the consequence, the negative consequence.

And then there are laws related to our soul, which are the highest possible laws. They are the laws that govern our future existence for most people, a major part of their future existence and in fact in the end, all of your future existence is governed by those higher laws. The lower laws become less and less necessary for your survival and the higher laws are engaged more and more and more as you progress.

These laws involve ethics and morality, but they also involve in particular love. Particularly not only the love that we ourselves share with others from ourselves, but also the laws that govern how God's Love operates upon the Universe. They are the very highest laws and you can think of all of these as truths, all of them are absolute truths, they are all laws; they are like the framework that governs God's Universe. They are the complete framework in which we live and every time we engage them positively we are going to receive benefits every time we engage them negatively - in other words we try to break them, we use our will to break them - we are going to engage a lot of negative consequences. If we engage it repeatedly negatively, we are going to have a lot of pain and suffering as a result.

**Mary:** Yes, absolutely and I think you're saying if we engage them negatively or we engage them positively, we are always engaging them, aren't we?

We are, whether we are aware of the fact or not.

**Mary:** Yes, and I often find with some of these moral laws and spiritual laws and soul-based laws that we discuss with people, they often wish to distance themselves from the negative consequences by saying, "I didn't understand that law, I didn't know what I was doing," and yet no one really says that about gravity, do they?

No, not at all.

**Mary:** And so I feel that God has all these laws there and we're all able to understand and learn about them if we simply engage, if we simply live our life and in doing that we're engaging ...

And feel the pain and suffering as a consequence of breaking the law and feel the benefits when we don't. But it's an interesting fact that you raised though too and that is that the majority of people do not understand one of the things about higher laws and that is this: the higher the law, the more probability there is that we are going to dismiss it, which is interesting.

**Mary:** Can you explain why that is?

Well because the higher the law the more refined we need to be with regard to love to understand it, and the more refined we need to be with regard to our desire for truth to understand it. As a result of our lack of refinement, if we could call it that, we often completely ignore and not only ignore but also justify the pain and suffering that results from breaking these laws.

So we have for example much pain and suffering on the planet with regard to relationships, relationships between partners for example. We need to understand that the pain and suffering comes not from the disagreement of the two parties, but from a breaking of the Law of Love that has occurred between the two parties, and yet most of us don't go down that track when we're examining those particular issues. What we do instead is we go, "I'm in pain and suffering and it's all your fault." (Laughs)

**Mary:** Or we say, "True love isn't possible, it's a myth."

Yes or we say, "love is painful." We even go down the track of saying that love hurts in order to justify the pain that we feel, which is only the result of our breaking the law somehow. This is where I feel people use their intellect to minimize, justify, shift the blame and do lots of things with regard to the absolute truth and the higher the law the more they do it; because the reality is the higher the law, it's more refined in operating upon the soul, rather than the physical form.

So what we finish up doing is we accept the physical laws, because there's usually an immediate physical consequence that's painful that we don't want to engage and so what we do is we accept the operation of that law without any question and without any justification and without minimizing it and without even rebelling against it, we accept the law. But when it comes to the higher laws, the higher truths, the ones that involve morality and the ones that involve love, which are the highest possible truths of the Universe, we are constantly trying to break them, we are constantly trying to minimize, shift the blame, blame somebody else or justify our position with them; we constantly try to justify our pain and suffering as a result of there being some problem with the Universe and not some problem with ourselves. So what we finish up doing is not understanding this basic truth, which is that God's Laws, God's Truths, always have positive benefits when we follow them and consequences that are negative when we don't. And if we truly understood that we would stop analysing all of these laws differently.

We are very hypocritical; humanity is very hypocritical in the way we analyse laws - God's Laws I'm talking about now. We analyse God's physical laws, we see the cause and the effect when we jumped off the building, we splat on the ground; we see the cause and the effect. We have no complaint about it, we don't try to minimize it, we don't try to modify the law or rebel against the law somehow, we know it's impossible, we know it's impossible because the law is set and it will operate the way it will operate every single time and we accept it, because it's physical.

Yet when it comes to the soul-based laws, the ones that are even more important for our existence, to understand we accept very few of them - if any of them - and what we finish up doing is we try to rebel against them, justify our position, shift the blame onto somebody else, minimize the effect that it's having and we even tell ourselves that the pain and suffering that comes as a consequence of breaking them is normal. We even allow ourselves to get to the point where we accept the pain and suffering rather than going, "Now hang on here a second, if God created a perfect world and a perfect Universe with perfect laws, if I'm in pain and suffering it's got to mean that I'm breaking something; I'm breaking some law and we don't go down that track of even reasoning on that matter.

**Mary:** And two things from what you just said, we accept how immovable the Law of Gravity is, and yet all of God's Laws are equally as immovable.

Exactly, the laws involving the soul and morality are all just as immovable as the laws involving Gravity. They are just the same - they are going to operate the same way every single time and they operate without discrimination - it's not determined by the colour of your skin, or the gender whether you're a male or a female. It's not determined by your justification - they all operate the same every single time and yet the majority of us go, "Oh that only applies to the physical laws, but it doesn't apply to the spiritual laws or moral laws, or the laws about love." How can we even think that, given the amount of evidence we have from the physical laws, that all law is immovable? When it comes to God, all law is immovable - you can't manipulate it unless you have knowledge of a higher law that allows for the underlying law still operating to act as if it's not having an effect on you anymore. There is no other way to mitigate the circumstances that you create through your choice of breaking the law or breaking the truth.

**Mary:** And perhaps you can give us an example of a more soul-based law, where there's a law operating and we can almost overcome the long-term operation of that law by engaging a higher law, to help.

Alright well let's have a look at that. Let's say during my life, maybe I was in a partnership, it doesn't matter whether I'm male or female here, I decided that I would like to abort the child that I've just conceived. Now if it's male or female, it makes no difference - you were involved in the conception. And if you've decided that you wanted to abort the child that decision itself has a moral consequence upon your soul; there is going to be pain and suffering that comes on your soul and it's going to be quite extreme, whether you're sensitive to it now or not, you will become very sensitive to it in the future, particularly after you've passed, unless you engage the law.

Now the two laws that are involved are the Law of Compensation, which is basically the law stating that you have to compensate for every unloving action you've ever taken in your life. That's one law, then there's the Law of Repentance, which is a higher law. Once you engage that Law of Repentance, it's like the lower law, the Law of Compensation doesn't exist. Now the Law of Compensation is going to result in pain and suffering to our soul for as long as we refuse to acknowledge the truth, that we actually took a wrong turn there \- we destroyed a life that we did not have the right to destroy - and as a result there was a consequence on our soul.

Now the Law of Compensation will eke out that position through a process and it could take many hundreds, if not thousands of years for a person to finish up acknowledging that particular truth. And then when they do, they will progress and they will actually be able to then live as if that thing is past now, but it takes a long time for those particular consequences to have their full fulfilment. While that happens you are restricted from where you can live in the spirit world, because the level of love that exists in your soul governs where you live and if you've chosen in your soul to harm the free will of another and even destroy their life, then that means the level of love in your soul isn't very high. So you are going to be quite limited as to where you will survive or live in the spirit world after you've passed and you're also quite limited as to what you will achieve on Earth actually, because your soul is already engaging the consequences of this law.

The higher law states, the Law of Repentance states, that as long as I am fully repentant and fully aware of all of the consequences of the action that I took and I actually work my way through the reason why I took those particular actions, then God's Love can enter my soul if I ask for it and clear away the thing that caused me to take such an action. This has the effect of then meaning that the soul no longer has within it the damage, the reason, which is the damage of why it took the original action. Therefore it no longer experiences the consequence of such an action because the reason has gone.

So this is an example of understanding some soul-based laws and how much of a huge effect it's going to have on your future life. If you believe that having an abortion is fine, you will find that you will be limited in your future development until you recognize that that's not true. There are two ways to recognize it's not true: by having the law engaged permanently and the consequential pain and suffering that results from staying in a certain condition where you're a murderer in the spirit world, or by going through a process that you engage through your own will of wanting to repent for such an action, by becoming aware that such an action was out of harmony with love and wanting to correct the reason why you took such actions. That is engaging the higher law. When you engage the higher law, now it's like the lower law doesn't need to have its operation.

**Mary:** And this is very interesting, because the picture you're painting is this is great news. It's great news that the more we are willing to face inside of ourselves, the more freedom results, the less pain there is. But I often see a lot of people ...

And also can I say that we also have this understanding of the relationship between the pain in our life and the fact that it has a cause. It's not indiscriminate, it's not like some kind of fate that determines the pain that we experience. The pain in our life has a cause and we need to discover its cause.

**Mary:** And it's actually empowering, because we now know a way that we can reduce pain in our life. But what I often see is people feeling that penalties are somehow evidence that God is punishing or nasty, or it's not fair. I've had people in my book group for example take severe offence that I used the word penalty in relation to God, because they feel that that is not how God is really, they know God and God is loving and so there's no penalty.

But interestingly enough that is totally illogical when you look at the physical laws. The reality is if you jump off a building that's ten stories high, there is a penalty. There is a consequence that's negative for the behaviour you took. And it's interesting again that we accept that with regard to the physical law, but when it comes to these moral laws or spiritual laws, we don't accept it.

**Mary:** Yes, and if we did look at it in a really logical, rational way, I feel that we see that God's Laws uphold order and promote love of ourselves and others and the environment. We can see that in the physical sense.

What I see a lot of people doing with love is, they sort of think like well as long as somebody loves me it doesn't really matter whether they love you. Well God's Laws are not like that, God's Laws are equal in the way in which they are distributed. In other words God expects us to be loving to all people in exactly the same manner, that means that if I'm loving to my children, but I'm not loving to my neighbour's children, now I'm out of harmony with God's Laws somehow, because all of God's Laws are applied equally.

This is what I feel happens for a lot of people too - they think that the way God applies the law to them should be different than the way God applies the laws to everyone else.

**Mary:** And yet if they were logical and rational they would say, "Well hang on, if God made an exception for me, if all of God's Laws actually uphold order and promote love, if God made an exception for me then I would be wanting a Universe that was less ordered, less functional and less loving. and I feel that many of us are not logical about the way we engage with God's Truths, or God's Laws ...

And we're not even logical about our expectations of God.

**Mary:** And also we want to desperately hold onto this idea that God is somehow unloving or somehow to blame instead of us actually perhaps needing to examine ourselves and be corrected, and that being corrected is actually a loving thing, because it helps us be happier, in less pain and also promotes order and love in the whole Universe.

Exactly, so God can't love you more than God loves me. If God showed you special favouritism, then that would mean that God loves you more than God loves me and God is not like that; God loves everyone equally. Often we grow up expecting special favouritism and even believing that special favouritism is love and it's not. Special favouritism creates huge amounts of disharmony and pain. When everyone is loved equally there's no such thing as the disharmony and pain that people create on the planet because they are favouring things and they in particular - most people on the planet - want themselves to be favoured above another. They're pretty upset when another is favoured above them and they feel the pain of that, but when they are favoured more than others they feel that's a good thing.

That's not how God's Laws work either, that's not how God's Truths are - all of God's Truths are equal in their operation; they are equal in the way in which they apply, they all have the same penalty, or the same negative consequence if we break them. And they all have the same positive benefit if we engage them. This results, as you say, in a completely harmonious Universe and the only people who believe differently are people who are living on the Earth currently, (Laughs) and who are living in the hells of the spirit world, who feel that they should get away with breaking these laws and feel that there should be some special favouritism in their particular case.

And God's Truths are not like that, God's Truths are equally applied right across the board and if we understood this principle or this quality of Divine Truth, we wouldn't be expecting even that anybody give us special favouritism and particularly we would not expect God to give us special favouritism. We would engage the law every time, every time, and would see when I break the law it's the same consequence as if you break the law. And if we both break the law in an identical fashion, at the identical time in our life, we will probably get the identical result.

This is where we have huge amounts of diseases for example on this planet. So a specific disease has a specific cause and the specific cause is breaking the Law of Love in a specific way. Every single disease, every single piece of pain and suffering that occurs on this planet is the result of breaking one of God's Truths or not being aware of one of God's Truths, and breaking it consistently in a certain way will cause a specific certain disease, every single time.

**Mary:** And it's interesting, isn't it, because a lot of people on the planet feel when they get very sick, like, "Why is God punishing me?" Or they see for example in the homosexual community, "HIV AIDS, oh that's God punishing them for their lifestyle," which is really like a total misrepresentation of what's actually going on.

Of the operation of the truth.

**Mary:** Of the operation of the truth, which is actually that these people are not being punished or even singled out because of necessarily what they are being accused of, and actually there may be just one issue. And sometimes it is a lack of feeling of worth inside of the person.

It can be, but in the case of sexual diseases for example most of the time it's the result of promiscuity, which is breaking one of God's Laws, one of God's moral laws. So of course it's going to have some kind of negative consequence. Heterosexual people and homosexual people are just as prone to being promiscuous and as a result have a tendency to end up with physical diseases that are sexual in nature, because if you break the law there will be a consequence.

It's not like God's trying to punish you, God's trying to inform you and say, "You broke a Law of Love here," that's why there's this consequence, which you have actually created. So God hasn't created the consequence, you've created it by breaking the law. If you chose to live in harmony with the law, you wouldn't have that consequence, it's quite simple, but most people on Earth want to break the truth or break the law, they don't even want to know what the truth is, many of the times, they want to be ignorant of truth and then we want to expect that there's not going to be any pain and suffering. (Smiles and Shrugs) Of course that can't be something that we expect and this is why it's so important to discover God's Truth because it we will have less pain and suffering if we discover it.

**Mary:** That's right and you know I mentioned these physical illnesses but it's what you referred to earlier, that often the vast majority of the World's population is living with extreme emotional pain all of the time.

As a result of them breaking laws.

**Mary:** Yes, trying to manage it and yet again we focus on the physical when really there's so much feedback being given to us in our day-to-day life as regards to our emotional pain that we're trying to ignore or avoid or manage.

And it doesn't only apply to our personal life, it also applies to our collective existence as humanity, because we are raping certain nations of all of their resources and we don't care about people in certain countries. Those particular people in those countries are going through huge amounts of pain and suffering, for which our soul is going to have a penalty to pay at some point in the future, for what we have engaged to support their particular rape of their country.

So this is where we need to understand that just because a collective group of people is experiencing a certain type of pain and suffering it's not because they themselves have been the only people breaking the law. It's because we have engaged the breaking of laws many of the times that has created this pain and suffering and because we don't love equally, we don't value their pain as much as we value our own.

**Mary:** Yes, so thank you for clarifying that because that's sort of where I was trying to head when we talked about the physical illnesses, because we see vast majorities of people in Africa and different nations that are actually in a lot of pain and suffering physically, but the reality is that because large groups of people in the West are breaking moral laws, they are actually accruing a lot of emotional pain. They might be physically well because they're able to control a lot of variables in their environment, but actually they are accruing quite a lot of pain, soul-based pain, because of this breaking of the Law of Love and ignoring God's Truth in these areas. So sometimes the consequences we see and we say are a big issue, sometimes there are even bigger consequences being accrued by other people in other places.

Yes from a soul perspective, I agree. And this is why we need to be more sensitive to what's really going on from an emotional perspective, which is another part of the quality, another one of God's qualities of truth that we need to understand.

The big problem that we face on the Earth is that we judge each other quite significantly. Now that is also the breaking of a moral law, which will have its consequence, both upon the person being judged, because it's out of harmony with love, but also upon the person who's doing the judging. And the person who's doing the judging is going to have a worse consequence in the long run than the person being judged. If the person being judged lets go of any pain that they have received emotionally and they actually work through forgiving the people judging them, in the end the person being judged may not have any pain, while the person who's doing the judging may finish up with years or even centuries of pain to go through, because of the level of judgement and the actions that they've taken as a result of their judgement of others.

So just because we examine certain things physically on Earth and we go, "Oh, just because my body looks okay and that person's body..." as soon as we're doing that we're automatically incurring a penalty on the soul; which is interesting in itself - that is having a soul-based law that we're breaking that's going to have a negative consequence on our soul that will affect us until we realize that we are doing the wrong thing. And if we don't realize we're doing the wrong thing for the next thousand years, then that's how long it's going to have a consequence on our soul, for the next thousand years.

It's really up to us to choose to do something different to that and that's what I like about this quality of God's Truths. On one hand it allows us to have all of these positive benefits from understanding that every single thing that happens in our lives has a cause, an underlying cause; this is the thing that we need to come to understand and the cause basically, drawn down to its simplest denominator, is we acted in or out of harmony with love. And as a result when we acted in harmony with love we have all these lovely positive benefits and if we acted out of harmony with love we have all these terrible consequences that are very painful. And if we engage them all the time it creates a lot of suffering and we therefore through this system can discover when we're living in harmony or out of harmony with love.

And if we truly desired to love, you could see how much of a positive impact that would have, not only on our personal life but also on our environment. It would mean personally, once we were perfected in love, we would have no pain and suffering and on our environment it means that every single person who interacts with us would not have any real pain and suffering caused by their interaction with us. And I feel that gives us a lot of power to change and understand how to change our life.

**Mary:** And the world we live in.

And the world we live in. And so just understanding this one quality of Divine Truth gives you a lot of power to change not only your own life, but also the lives of any person that you touch.

2. Regarding quality eleven, what does a soul-based understanding that "Living out of harmony with Divine Truth results in penalties or consequences", look like in my personal life?

Well there are so many things that could be said here of course.

Firstly I would understand that every time that I experience personal pain and suffering, whether that be physically or emotionally, or spiritually, it means that I have done something in the past, or I'm currently continuing to do something right now, that is out of harmony with a particular truth of God. And if I brought myself into harmony with that particular truth of God then my symptoms - the pain and suffering that I'm experiencing - would disappear.

Now if I understood just that one thing about this, I would stop blaming anyone externally for my life, I would stop blaming everyone externally for my pain and suffering; I'd stop blaming God, I'd stop blaming religions, I'd stop blaming politicians, I'd stop blaming all sorts of people who are around me. Even if I was in prison, stop blaming my prison guards for the pain and suffering that is in my life and I would look inside of myself to try to discover how I acted out of harmony with love and truth.

Now once you work your way through those particular things you'll find that your whole life will change - literally your whole life will change. It doesn't stop people from harming you, but even forgiveness causes less pain and suffering - physically, emotionally and spiritually to yourself. So engaging another Law of Love - Forgiveness, can also bring you a lot of peace and a lot of control over what seemingly is an externally controlled situation.

**Mary:** It's very beautiful, isn't it? You've written some notes here, would you be happy if I just read out each one and we can discuss the one.

Yes.

**Mary:** So the first one you probably just about covered, but I'll say it again, "I feel emotionally that every time I break the Law of Divine Truth, my soul experiences pain. Whenever I choose to act outside of the truth I'm also choosing pain." And I wanted to read that probably because if we have a soul-based understanding we would know we are actually making a choice for pain whenever we act outside of truth.

Yes, so we need to come to understand that every time I'm experiencing pain and suffering, whether it's physically, emotionally or spiritually, I need to understand that I chose to act out of harmony with the Law of love somehow. It might not be a law that I'm consciously aware of, but the fact that I have pain and suffering of some kind indicates that I have chosen to act out of harmony with it, and this is where I could find out what the law was. I could start to ponder it and use a lot more thought about what the law was, that I actually did break.

**Mary:** Yes, okay. Next one, I feel pain as a demonstration of my own desire to continue breaking Divine Law.

Yes, so I would see that all of God's Truths are immovable objects; all of God's Truths are laws. Every time I desire to do something out of harmony with the law, it's going to result in pain. Now the flip side of that is, every time I feel pain, I chose to live out of harmony with law. So I need to see it as a choice, an exercise of my personal desire to live out of harmony with law, something happened.

Now sometimes it's the choice of others that occurred. So in particular with children this is the case where the parent caused pain for the child by the parent's choice to act out of harmony with law. Now if we truly loved our children we wouldn't do that, we would choose instead to look at what within myself might have caused the child to experience the pain it's currently experiencing, whether the child's pain is physical, emotional or spiritual. So we need to understand these things.

Now of course there's a complexity involved with this and that is that other people can choose to harm us, but our response to that harm will be a choice that we make either in or out of harmony with love. So they could choose to harm us and if we chose to operate in harmony with love under those circumstances, then our pain and suffering would be much lower and sometimes completely mitigated altogether, than if we chose to respond in a manner that's out of harmony with God's Truths or God's Laws of Love.

**Mary:** But it's a very key point that you mentioned earlier that most often we experience pain and we immediately blame someone else. Sometimes because of an action they've taken, but sometimes even if there's not an apparent action, say someone's punched you, that hasn't even happened, but we experience pain and many of us are so conditioned or used to then looking for someone else to blame.

Of course, yes, that's what we do.

**Mary:** Places us completely out of harmony with this truth, doesn't it?

It does: it means that we don't have a soul understanding of this quality of God's Truth.

You know, even when an insect bites us the average person's response is to slap the insect, dead insect, not understanding that the insect biting us, which caused us a little bit of pain, was actually the result of something we were already choosing that was out of harmony with love. It might be out of harmony with love of ourselves, as well as out of harmony with love of our environment, or out of harmony with love of others, or out of harmony with love of God.

So the reality is that with many of these things, God's Laws are applied equally to even love of self. So if we choose to act out of harmony with love of self, there will be consequences that are painful to ourselves and to others; if we choose to act out of harmony with love of others there will be consequences. And we understand all this, so when the insect bites us, we don't go anymore blaming the insect; once we've been bitten, we go okay there's a reason why I'm getting bitten all the time and it's something inside of me that's out of harmony with love.

Now it could be out of harmony with love of myself, it could be out of harmony with love of others, it could be out of harmony with love of my environment, including love of insects or it could be out of harmony with love of God. I've just got to discover which one it is. In other words what truth will help me to no longer be bitten by an insect.

Now on Earth we don't believe that we can stop getting bitten by insects, but the reality is we can; if we bring everything inside of ourselves into harmony with love we will no longer be bitten by an insect. Even the biting by an insect is an indication that something inside of myself is out of harmony with love, but we don't generally attack it from that perspective. What we do is we kill the insect or protect ourselves from the insect, but in the end we're still not addressing the underlying emotional reason that caused our pain. In this case even though it was a minor bit of pain that caused our pain.

And if we do it with the insect, what do you think we are going to do with a person? (Laughs) What do you think we are going to do with somebody who actually has free will? The insect doesn't have free will, the insect is responding to our own will, whereas with another person, they have free will of their own, now if they attack us and create physical pain for ourselves - what are we going to decide to do there?

Well if we act in harmony with love we will always have the best possible circumstances and outcome. If we act in harmony with understanding all of God's Truths we will always have the best possible outcome. So it's imperative that we learn to discover what are God's Truths and imperative that we learn it because it will create less pain and suffering for ourselves physically, emotionally and spiritually.

**Mary:** And from what you're saying when we have a soul-based understanding that living out of harmony with Divine Truth results in penalties and consequences, it doesn't necessarily mean that we are not going to have any penalties or consequences anymore, but we have an understanding in our soul ...

Can you say that sentence again?

**Mary:** (Laughs) Well maybe I should phrase it as a question.

If you bring into harmony all of your own personal life into complete harmony with God's Truths and God's Love, you will not experience any pain and suffering at all.

**Mary:** Yes I understand.

Even if somebody attacks you and harms you or tries to torture you, you will be able to circumnavigate the pain and the suffering that might result.

**Mary:** But prior to that, we can have a soul-based understanding of this single truth and that will mean that whenever we encounter pain and suffering, we will automatically engage a process of understanding.

A personal process.

**Mary:** Yes, of what is the other one of God's Truths that I don't have a soul-based understanding of yet, that is causing my pain and suffering.

So can I give you an example of that perhaps?

**Mary:** Yes.

One thing that I've had to learn personally is how to come to love myself, that's been my biggest problem in fact. My biggest problem in returning to Earth has been in coming to love myself again the way God loves me. And I'm still way out of harmony with that, at this point in time, because I still experience pain and suffering and it's instant, as you know. Every time I don't love myself I have an instant painful result generally that demonstrates to me, "Ah, there it goes again, I wasn't loving to myself again," and, "There it goes again, I wasn't loving to myself again." So usually it's not just issues where others love you, it's issues where you love others, where you love yourself and you love your environment and I have spoken to people before about the four different areas of love.

Firstly the way others love others, and then there's the way others love you and then there's the way you love others and then there's the way you love yourself, and every one of these things has to be brought into harmony with love if we want to experience a painless and what's an opposite to a suffering existence ...

**Mary:** (Laughs) Pleasant, relaxed, happy ...

Zero suffering existence, we need to bring all of these particular aspects of love into harmony if we really want to experience this truth that we've discussed here in this quality.

**Mary:** Yes, okay. Next one, "Even if I as yet do not feel the Divine Truth, I choose to act in harmony with the truth."

Yes, so we can hear a truth and we can hear it and know it's true, without yet feeling it's truth. So in other words the average person on the planet knows for certain that it's not good to go and kill somebody \- that would be a statement of a truth. We feel it's not good to go and kill somebody because it hurts them and harms them and there are all sorts of reasons why we know it to be true. We might feel under certain circumstances that we'd like to kill some people (smiles), depending on how we feel, but because we choose to now act in harmony with one of God's Truths, we choose, even though we don't emotionally yet feel the necessity to live in harmony with it, we choose to live in harmony because we know it's true from an intellectual perspective. That is going to have a more positive outcome than if we just go along with the emotion.

**Mary:** Well and also because as you're saying here in these notes, I have a soul-based understanding that if I act out of harmony with it, I'm going to have pain and suffering. So even if I haven't fully received that truth into my soul, I have this other one in my soul that tells me, hey I've got a list of measures of knowing that's likely to be truthful, and if I think it is, I don't want to act out of harmony with it - that's really what you're saying there.

Basically what we need to choose to do... usually a person internally is like this, there's a list of things that they have inside of themselves that they know intellectually are out of harmony with love, but they still like doing some of them.

My suggestion is, stop doing them even if you like doing them and secondly, work on the reason why you like doing it. So if you like attacking other people verbally, it's not loving, you're going to have consequences for doing it. Stop doing it, number one - stop doing it. Number two, look at the soul-based reason why you want to do it, what joy, malicious joy do you receive from doing it? What do you get out of it? Look at the reasons why.

If you truly understood this principle, you would understand that every time you act out of harmony with what you know to be right, you are automatically incurring a soul-based penalty, which at some point later you're going to have to pay for with pain and suffering. So you'd be benefited by not doing that, even though you want to; you'd be benefited by not doing it.

Let's look at an issue of love of self: you know that smoking harms your health. You know it does, so why do you stay smoking? Why do you keep doing it? If you truly upheld or understood this truth, you would go to yourself, "Okay, I haven't changed the reason why I want to smoke." There might be lots of things that caused that; it might be the way my parents treated me, the way I grew up, it might be my own sense of self-worth and all sorts of issues - sadness that I'm trying to overcome, fear that I'm trying to control, all sorts of issues might be the reason; but if I stop smoking right now I will no longer have to endure the effects, many of the effects that smoking will bring, which will possibly result in throat cancer, lung cancer and a number of other problems, emphysema and other problems which have all been documented.

So just stopping smoking, a physical act, is going to result in less consequences in my life. Then if I was truly understanding this principle I would go, "Okay, not only am I going to stop the action, that I know is out of harmony with love of myself or another, but I'm also going to try to discover the reason why inside of myself I feel like I want to take that action out of harmony with love." And if I understood this Divine Truth - that all of God's Laws result, or all of God's Truths result in penalties or consequences, positive or negative, depending on how we engage the law - then we would stop trying to reason with ourselves by going, "Oh, it's okay that I'm smoking," we wouldn't say, "Oh it's okay that I'm smoking, I'm willing to pay the consequence, if it means I get lung cancer I'm willing to pay it."

Now how many people will say that, but when it comes to having lung cancer they no longer feel that and they want drugs now to overcome it, they want to go into a hospital and have hundreds of people, or at least tens of people look after them on a daily, weekly and even an hourly basis, which are all the consequences of your choice to make a choice that's out of harmony with love. And if you look at human society now, there are so many professions which are all about helping people stay out of harmony with love and not have to bear the full consequences of their choice that they made earlier in their life.

If we had a different approach, I'm sure quite a lot of people would stop smoking. (Laughs) And I'm not saying that that means that we don't have to care of people, I'm just saying that we've got to start seeing that every choice we're making not only has a negative effect on ourselves, but it causes pain and suffering for others. It causes pain and suffering for others and we need to understand that.

**Mary:** That's another truth, is it not, that when we ignore love in one area, whether it be love of our environment, love of others or love of ourselves, it has a flow on effect to the other areas anyway; that's the way God's created the Universe to give us feedback in a number of ways, yes.

Exactly, and if we truly wanted to reduce our own pain and suffering - usually what we do is we don't truly want to, until our pain and suffering becomes extreme - my suggestion is, we need to become a lot more sensitive to our pain and suffering, so it doesn't have to become as extreme before we change our behaviour. If we understood this law, we wouldn't wait until our pain and suffering was extreme, we would be sensitive to even the smallest amount of pain and we would examine the reason why it occurred.

**Mary:** Yes. So the next one probably flows on from that. I feel pain in my life is a direct result of not living in Divine Truth, or God's Love. And then, I enjoy how God has given me this direct feedback mechanism, displaying my lack of love.

Yes. This is a beautiful thing when you think about it from God's perspective and even from a perspective of growth. We are getting constant feedback about what's out of harmony and this is really wonderful, because it gives us a chance to change. If we weren't receiving constant feedback we would probably ignore change in a positive direction, but we're receiving constant feedback and this is a fantastic thing not a bad thing. It's a very positive thing that we're doing; receiving constant feedback allows us to change in a positive direction to become more loving.

So if I understood this law, this principle of God's Truth - I would go, "Okay, this is wonderful that God's giving me these consequences, positive and negative consequences I'm receiving every single moment of my life and the more I'm willing to go through and find and discover what brought me the positive consequences and what brought me the negative consequences, the more rapidly my life will change."

The reality is if most of us spent most of our time doing that now our life in the future would be amazingly different in a positive direction, but the reality for most of us is, that we choose to spend very little time in self-analysis like that. We look at our pain and suffering, we blame other people for it, we blame our environment for it, we blame politicians, or we blame the religions. We blame as many people as we possibly can and as a result we take away our personal power to change. When we do that we are showing that we don't have this quality of Divine Truth in our soul, we don't understand it. We don't understand the truth about the way God's created the Universe.

**Mary:** Because through denying we are only compounding the issue, we're only compounding the pain by blaming or denying.

Exactly, we're going to make more pain because every time you blame another for what you've created you're going to create more pain: you've just broken another law; another moral law that has a consequence on your soul. This is the way God's Laws work, if you choose to rebel against them they are all going to create something for which you at some point in the future will feel pain and suffering.

**Mary:** Okay, I do not avoid dealing with past sins or errors, just because of the painful emotions involved.

Yes, we see this happening a lot where people say to us, "Oh that's in the past," and we're going. "But no, no your body and your life and everything is telling you right now, that the pain you're experiencing right now is because of that thing that was in the past. You need to feel about it, you need to process your way through it; you need to release the reason why you chose to do it. You need to see the relationship, the cause and effect relationship. The effect is the pain you're in, the cause is the choices that you've made. You need to see this relationship."

This is particularly the case in the Western world, because we are more the oppressors if you like. So it's particularly the case in the Western world; this is why the Western world generally has more disease, even though we have more medication, we also have more disease generally than many other nations that are classified as the third world, and the reason why we have a lot of what we call... you could say there's a separation of the types of diseases.

In the Third World most of the diseases are environmental in nature and in the First World, if we want to call it that, most of the diseases are self-caused. (Laughs) You know a lot of like heart disease, lung cancer, bowel cancer, breast cancers - they are all based around what we've chosen to do out of harmony with love and the instances of those kinds of diseases are much higher than they are in the Third World.

The reason why that is, is because we're acting out of harmony with love, a lot. (Laughs) Even though we want to believe that we're not. And if we truly understood this quality we would be more self-reflective. We would go, "Okay, there's something I need to change here, there's something that's out of harmony with love in myself that's creating these attractions.

**Mary:** And on that issue of illness and disease, in say the developing world or whatever you want to call it, it's very true, isn't it, that often here in the West we have even the physical technology or medication to alleviate most of the suffering that exists in the Third World, or a large majority of it, things like mosquito nets and medication that are very relatively cheap here for us to produce and create, and we don't share it, we resist doing that for whatever - we make a lot of excuses - economic reasons.

Well the only reasons are to do with the money. There's plenty of money being made by pharmaceutical companies but we don't share some of the results of their discovery with the Third World because they'll make less money and we might have to subsidize it and we don't want to do that. So it's really again selfishness that drives a lot of those particular things occurring.

**Mary:** And has this flow on effect of a lot of suffering. So we're actually neglecting the growth of our own soul by giving up issues of greed and fear and it has this flow on effect of really perpetuating a lot of needless suffering really.

Yes, but the truth also is that if a person who's in Africa and doesn't have any medication and doesn't have any mosquito net and gets bitten by a mosquito, there is something inside of their particular soul right at that moment that's out of harmony with love and if they addressed it, they would never have gotten bitten by this mosquito that caused malaria in the first place. So again we can see that this applies to every single person on the planet, no one is exempt from the law, every single person needs to be self-analytical with regard to this particular quality of Divine Truth.

**Mary:** Which in a way is beautiful because everyone's equally empowered to discover.

Wouldn't it be interesting if half of Africa all got themselves into a state of love where they weren't getting bitten by mosquitoes anymore and then they didn't need any pharmaceuticals ...

**Mary:** Mosquito net or pharmaceuticals to survive.

To correct the issue and everyone else would be looking at them going, "How come you have no mosquito's biting you, when we go there we get eaten alive?" and then maybe they might look at it. So even the people who are oppressed, if they change with regard to the issues of love, you can see that there would be a positive benefit worldwide through the operation. So you know I feel a lot of the arguments people have against these principles are all to do with rebellion, they all just want to rebel. And honestly, rebelling against God's Truths - not a good idea. (Laughs)

**Mary:** Yes, well we'll get to that one on the list because I wanted to ask you about it. Next one - I recognize the importance of keeping each sin in front of my own eyes until released emotionally.

Yes, so let's look at sin meaning missing the mark, or being in error from a point of view of love. So what I do is I go, "Okay, I was bitten by a mosquito." Instead of just brushing the mosquito away, like killing the mosquito, brushing it all off and forgetting about it, I would go, "Hang on a second, there's an issue of love here, that by brushing it off, or killing the mosquito, I'm just ignoring the issue of love. I need to allow myself to feel what this issue of love is about," and to do that I need to use my will, to keep the issue of love present.

So a week ago I was bitten by a mosquito, two weeks ago now I was bitten by a mosquito, there's still this issue of love. (Laughs) And I keep the issue of love in front of myself, until such a time as I can go out into some mosquito infested place and not be bitten and then I go, "Okay, now I've dealt with this issue of love that I had out of harmony with my soul," and I use my will to remind myself that the issue is still present within me, while I'm experiencing the pain and suffering that results from it.

**Mary:** And presumably there are issues you mentioned, such as abortion earlier, big larger issues, infidelity, things that we can quickly recognize as sin, or missing the mark; things that are not in harmony with God's Love. So presumably then we have a lot of pain from that that many of us try to manage, or deny, or medicate. (Laughs) We manage to deny in whatever way possible sometimes. Sometimes we self-medicate with alcohol, sometimes with food or with drugs, prescription or non-prescription, or busy ourselves, or do all kinds of things. So presumably from this truth that you're saying, we're actually going to do the opposite to that when we have a soul-based understanding. We willingly choose to say, "Where is my pain about this issue? I want to feel it."

I want to feel it, because it's a consequence I need to feel and I need to understand how it was created, I need to feel about how it was created. So if I get a cold, or feel sick in any way, I need to look at what created it. In my case lately, whenever I get some kind of illness, it's usually because I haven't been loving to myself the week before. In almost every case now, that's the case where I know, "There it is, that was the time, that's why I've got this now," and once I get rid of those particular love of self issues, then a lot of them disappear.

This is what we need to understand, is that while we act out of harmony with love, while we act out of harmony with God's Truth there are unavoidable consequences. While we act in harmony with love and in harmony with God's Truth, there are unavoidable positive consequences. (Laughs) You will attract a whole heap of things that are very positive as a result.

**Mary:** And that brings us to our next point, I have a passionate desire to live in harmony with all of God's Laws.

Yes, because I understand this underlying truth that there are consequences negatively and positively. If I live in harmony with the law there are always positive consequences. Can you see that that would give you a lot of faith and desire to act in harmony with God's Laws? You won't be going to yourself, "Oh I want to break this law and I want to break that law and I know about that law now, but I want to break it." You wouldn't do that ever, in fact you'd be completely the opposite. "I know about that law, now I want to live my life in harmony with that law, because I'm going to receive lots of personal benefits for doing that, but also everyone around me is going to receive lots of personal benefits for my doing it."

**Mary:** Alright, so the final one on your list, I feel no feelings of rebellion against God's Laws.

Yes, and this is something we see all the time, people just constantly rebelling against God's Laws, because they think they're personal motivations are justified, usually that's the underlying thing. Many know God's Laws, like we know people who know God's Laws about abortion and have gone and had one afterwards and that's an indication that there is a deep desire within them to rebel against God's Laws.

Why do they want to rebel against them? All it's going to do is result in more pain and suffering in their life, it makes no sense to rebel. It's like rebelling against the Law of Gravity, why would you want to do that? (Laughs) It makes no sense, but the majority of us, like I said, wish to rebel against the higher laws because their consequences are not felt as immediately, or as strongly as the consequences of breaking a physical law.

So the higher the law, usually the higher justification we have to have to rebel against it. Ironically if we understood the lesson from the lower law, which is every time I rebel there is an instant consequence, we wouldn't try to rebel against the higher law, understanding that rebelling against the higher law is going to have even more painful consequence than the immediate physical consequence had from breaking the physical law. And if we truly understood that, we would not rebel against any law; we would wish to discover the law and we'd wish to live in harmony with it.

**Mary:** So, why do we rebel, is it arrogance, is it anger? Because it's such a common thing that we see.

Because we lack love, that's the only reason why we rebel. We don't want to love and God's going, "Okay, you don't want to love, you're going to have a consequence for not loving. You want to rebel, you're going to have a consequence for rebelling." It's only because we don't want to love, we don't want to love God's way, we want to love our own way, or we don't want to love at all. Both of those are a problem from God's perspective.

God's made a Universe that's based around God's definition of love and sooner or later we're going to be brought into harmony with it - some of us, most of us kicking and screaming into harmony with it, others willingly - and my suggestion to people is, understand these basic qualities of Divine Truth and bring yourself willingly into harmony, not kicking and screaming. Why would you want to do that?

You're going to have more pain and suffering doing that, the principle that we're discussing, every time you don't understand this principle from a soul perspective, every time you go and revert to rebellion, you are basically saying, you don't understand this principle at the soul level, but you're also basically saying you're going to create for yourself, more pain and suffering because you want to.

Now that makes very little logical sense, but lots and lots of people, the majority of people in fact are doing that, and this is why when they pass into the spirit world and then receive the true consequences of everything they've done, through the law of "what you sow, so shall you reap", which is a moral law. Once they understand that they go, "Oh we want to return back to Earth and tell people not to do those things," but it's too late then because the majority of people on Earth are not listening either.

So my suggestion is to change that rebellious behaviour, look at the reasons whatever they are, it doesn't really matter, it's just a desire to be out of harmony with love. So you don't have to know intricately what the reasons are, you just need to go, "Okay, I obviously want to act out of harmony with love and I want to rebel against what I know to be God's Laws, I've got a problem. I need to sort it out." (Laughs) That would be the wise course of action and the most logical.

3. Quality twelve: What do you mean when you say, "Divine Truth is demonstrated by actions, supported by evidence - scientific, emotional, physical and spiritual"?

Well there's a lot involved in this quality that we've tried to outline and perhaps we could have separated it all, but we'd still be discussing it in a year's time if we did that. (Laughs) Well let's look at each aspect of that shall we, in terms of what this quality means.

So what was the first aspect?

**Mary:** Divine Truth is demonstrated by action.

Okay, so Divine Truth is such that it's not just a theory, it's always something that happened in practice. So for example, Divine Truth isn't a theory that someone created, it's an actual law that exists in practice - it actually controls action. So for example, God's Truth about gravity is not a theory, it's an actual law and it creates and affects our actions, it defines how everything works.

God's Law of Aerodynamics is another physical law or a physical truth that's defined by action: we've got to create a wing that has certain aerodynamic properties before we can engage the law, so it requires action. It's not just theory, never just theory; they always have practical aspects. So it's almost like saying, "All of God's Truths have this beautiful quality to them and that is that every one of them is not just theoretical and not just a concept or an idea, but is an actual thing that comes into operation when we engage it." Every one of God's Laws is like that, even the moral laws and the soul-based laws are all the same; they all have this particular unique aspect to them.

A lot of people's ideas on the planet are not like that; they are just philosophizing about things and the whole process of philosophy for example is really not engaging many of God's Laws because you don't have to act in any way; you can just theorize and philosophize. And anything that you can just theorize and philosophize about that doesn't result in some kind of action in the end should probably be given up in preference to finding something that has a practical application. All of God's Laws have practical applications.

**Mary:** And from what you're saying be demonstrated by actions. So if we have a truth, then we should be able to observe it in action.

Exactly.

So let's look at the issue of curing breast cancer in the left breast for women. If we discovered the reason - the cause of cancer occurring in the left breast - every single person who engaged the law in a positive direction would cure their cancer, every single person. But no one who had cancer in the right breast would be affected by it, because it would be a different law, a different reason, a different thing going on than the person who had cancer in the left breast. And we can document it through processes, we could easily document it if we knew what the underlying cause of the cancer was. It won't be physical, because this part of this truth says it's going to be emotional, so this is another part or another aspect of it which we'll discuss in a minute.

What was the second one that I raised there after action?

**Mary:** Demonstrated by actions, supported by evidence scientific, emotional, physical and spiritual.

Yes, so let's look at this whole aspect of "supported by evidence" - firstly, as a foundation. All of God's Truths are the absolute truths of the Universe. They are all supported by evidence, every single one of them, so every single one of God's Laws - whether they be physical, moral or spiritual in nature - are all going to be supported by some evidence.

In fact the more we understand that, the more we can discover the actual laws; we can look at the evidence, we can look at it from a scientific perspective and say this evidence could mean that or that, or that; let's go through the process to working out what it means 100% of the time. Once we've done that we've now seen the relationship between the cause and the effect. And this is a beautiful thing about all God's Laws - they all do that. So all of God's Truths are supported by evidence, in other words you cannot come up with a truth of God that's not supported by evidence.

This is a very important factor that we need to consider. If there is a "so called" truth that people religiously for example are trying to believe, but there is no evidence to support that that particular thing is true, no matter how much we've tried to discover it either from a physical, emotional or spiritual perspective, then it means it's probably not true. No matter whether it's contained in a holy book or not, it's probably not true because it's only the things that are supported by evidence that will in the end be determined to be God's Truths.

Now the evidence can be scientific in nature, and I would argue that all of God's Truths, and all of the evidence are all scientific. But we could break it down into scientific - in other words we can come up with support evidence for it scientifically; it will be emotional in nature - in other words there will have to be some kind of emotional engagement with love, because remember everything is revolving around love, so there's got to be some aspect of love involved with the evidence that's supportive and some aspect out of harmony with love that results in providing the opposite to the evidence if you like.

**Mary:** There's evidence supporting and then we see the contrary when we ...

And there's evidence supporting the negative consequence. So therefore we can discover the operation of the truth, the law itself and so if we understood that, we would see that it's emotional, we would also see, what are the other things I mentioned there.

**Mary:** Physical, emotional evidence.

Yes so there's physical evidence, things that we see with our own eyes, can hear with our own ears, developed with our senses, in other words understand with our senses, so that we can see it all occurring.

**Mary:** So there's this aspect of love, emotion, physical and spiritual evidence that is all accrued as we examine truth.

Exactly and the evidence will not disappear when we pass. This is what I mean by spiritual - it has to not only be supported in the physical body, but it would also be supported by any people who were in the spirit body; they would also see the same evidence. In other words the evidence is not going to be different depending on the location, you'll be able to still examine the evidence from any location, whether your location is in the physical world or in the spiritual world.

This is something we need to understand; while there might not be as much physical evidence there might be a mountain of spiritual evidence that a spirit can see that a person on Earth cannot see, and so we need to combine all of these things to determine what the truth is. God's Truths always have the combination of being truth no matter where we are.

**Mary:** So in that you're saying that sometimes we might not be able to see all the evidence because of something relating to our emotional, physical or spiritual state, would that be true?

Well not only that we might not be able to see the evidence even from our eyesight because the evidence may not be available to our eyesight. There are many physical truths that are available in the physical universe that are not available to our eyesight, so we need to stop thinking I have to personally see with my own eyes, because there have to be other ways of measuring what is true and what is not. Like you can't see the wind, but you can feel it on your face so there's a physical evidence - but it's feeling-based and not seeing-based. You might see the effects, but if there's nothing that moves around you, you won't see the effects except by feeling it and this is the thing that we need to understand. It's not just wise for us to use our sight or our hearing, but rather that we need to understand that there are all our senses that need to be involved in the examination of the evidence.

**Mary:** Okay, just to touch on a couple of things you've written here as well in notes. So God's Truth about the Universe is demonstrated by what happens in the Universe and you've really touched upon that already, haven't you? You've basically said that what we observe happening is demonstrating truth to us.

Exactly and if we correctly make the right analysis of that particular happening or event then we will be able to replicate it over and over and over again. And so for example if I find out the real cause of a person who has cancer in their left breast, I will be able to replicate it over and over and over again - both the creation of the cancer and it's cure.

**Mary:** Yes. Okay, "God's Truth about the condition of someone's soul is demonstrated by their actions and what they attract to their soul."

Yes and this is another thing we need to understand: that just because a person says they feel something, it doesn't mean anything really. It's how they act that shows how they really feel, so again truth is demonstrated by action. How God acts shows how God really feels and how humans act shows how humans really feel.

So for example, here on Earth we say we love, and we say we understand love, but if we look at the actual evidence there are millions of people who die before they are five years old. Now, is that a loving thing? No. What are our actions showing? Are actions are showing that we don't understand love. That's what our actions are showing; collectively we don't understand love and so we need to accept that. We need to go, "Okay, the actions, the result - lots of children dying is caused by our not understanding love in some way," and we need to fix that, we need to change that, if we are going to have a different effect.

**Mary:** So caused by us not understanding love.

It's caused by us not understanding love and not just the persons who are dying, it's caused by all people on the planet not understanding love, because all of us are responsible for the fact that these children are dying, when there's enough food on the planet to support their life. So if these children are dying from malnutrition or some kind of disease it's because of the lack of love in the people who have enough power and enough money and enough wealth to change it, and that is applying mostly to the Western world.

So the reality is children dying on the planet from disease and from malnutrition, you could say the primary cause of this is the lack of love in people who have enough. That's the primary cause and all of us who are in the Western world need to go, "Okay how am I contributing to that particular outcome? What am I choosing to do to contribute to that outcome?"

**Mary:** And I know just personally on that front, when we met I was full of rage at all of us who have enough for not ending this problem and in that way I was also contributing to that problem, because I was ...

Exactly, because rage is an act out of harmony with love.

**Mary:** Exactly, yes, I wasn't really loving my brothers and sisters here in the West and ...

Also not loving the others, because the reality is you can't love while you are angry.

**Mary:** Exactly, yes. So it's a really pertinent issue to every one of us here in the West, isn't it?

It is. It is a huge issue that we need to be aware of: the fact is that a lot of our choices are resulting in what we currently see on the planet and we can't go, "Well that's happening over there," the fact that we do that, is an indication of how unloving we are. (Laughs)

**Mary:** If we have the awareness of it and we're denying it ...

We need to do what we can to change it and we'd want to start with ourselves, we'd want to start with how we act - what we eat, what we drink, how we consume, everything would need to change - if we're truly sincere about addressing the issue. Also we would take steps or actions to try to help overseas where other issues are occurring that we've assisted in creating.

**Mary:** Because we're seeing evidence, physical evidence and emotional evidence really that something out of harmony with love is occurring.

Yes and we need to understand, because it's soul-based, a lot of these issues are soul-based, if we change our soul first - that's the soul we have control over - if we change our soul first a lot of these other things would start to disappear. And if collectively everyone in the West changed their soul attitude towards children dying in other countries, then there would be no children dying in other countries or very few in comparison to what are dying now.

**Mary:** Okay, alright. "Coming to know Divine Truth will always result in changes to our emotions, intentions and desires." And you have an example here.

Well let's look firstly at the statement and then raise the example. What we need to understand from this particular truth is that Divine Truth always has an emotional component, because love is an emotion and because truth is always associated with love. Therefore it follows that truth has to be always associated with an emotion, so from a logical perspective that can only be the case.

So I must start to understand that there is this emotional component with regard to the understanding and living of truth. It's not just something that I can just intellectually choose to do; something has to change inside of me that causes me to do it; something has to move so that I feel a desire to love, which is an emotion.

So therefore I must become more sensitive emotionally and in fact there are certain truths of the Universe, particularly soul-based truths that you cannot understand unless you become more emotional, or more emotionally connected. Now there's a whole concept on the Earth today that we need to gain what they call emotional intelligence, and I agree with that, and Divine Truth always has this aspect of emotional intelligence as well as physical intelligence, always; and we need to stop separating emotion from physical. We need to see it as supporting evidence that something can be truthful.

**Mary:** Yes, right.

So the example ...?

**Mary:**... was a woman being abused by her husband would realize that he must not love her if he beats her.

Exactly. So normally somebody who's beaten by her husband, as in the case of a beaten wife, would reason with herself, "But oh he still loves me, he just drinks too much and he hurts me then," or whatever is the underlying defence for his actions. And she's not seeing that she's staying with him because she wants to feel safe financially, or she's staying with him because she has an emotion towards herself that mirrors her husband's emotions towards her. So therefore they are in a co-dependent addiction.

She's not seeing these particular things, she's not being honest with herself, but if she was being emotionally intelligent, emotionally truthful she'd realize that anybody who hits her cannot love her - anybody who hits her cannot love her.

Now unfortunately many of us have grown up getting hit as children and then our parents have told us that it's love; but this is saying anybody who hits you does not love you, that is the emotion that we'd have to get to eventually.

**Mary:** And does this relate to this truth that you're saying, "Divine Truth is demonstrated by actions," and so then if we examine the actions of people we can come to understand more truth.

Exactly, so if she looks at his actions and says, "If he's hitting me, he obviously doesn't love me," there's the subsequent result. He can say he loves her, he can cry when she leaves, he can get all emotional and whatever, none of it means anything with regard to God's definition of love, none of it; because the reality is if he loved her he wouldn't do it, he wouldn't hit her. And if she came face to face with that truth, she would leave, she wouldn't stay; or she would go, "Wow, if I want to stay it means that I don't love me either." Therefore she would see that she has an issue of love herself towards herself that she needs to address.

**Mary:** And this is what you mean by the changes to our emotions, intentions and desires.

Exactly. We would need to see at some point that it's the emotion in her that's driving her to stay in the situation. If she discovered the truth of that emotion, she would leave, because she would also discover the truth that he doesn't love her by feeling the truth of her emotional reasons why she's staying. When she says, "Oh I'm staying because I think he loves me," she's not being truthful, to herself or to him.

**Mary:** And she's ignoring the evidence that she already has.

Totally in ignorance of the evidence: the evidence is clear, she is not being loved; the evidence is clear, she needs to act upon the evidence. If she truly honoured Divine Truth, if she truly honoured God's Truth, she would act upon the evidence. She wouldn't keep justifying, staying, for any reason - children, any reason, potential that he might harm her more - she wouldn't even stay for that reason.

**Mary:** Okay. "Divine Truth affects our thoughts and feelings, not just our actions."

Yes, so you can't just change your actions and expect yourself to be in more harmony with Divine Truth. You are in more harmony, but it's not completed yet. To complete being in harmony with Divine Truth, the way God has created these soul-based laws, it means that you must bring your thoughts and even your emotions into harmony with the truth, not just your actions.

So for example, you might have a feeling inside of you to suicide, but never act upon it. My suggestion is that you need to bring your feeling into harmony, in other words no longer feel that your want to commit suicide. The way you do that is by releasing from you the emotional reasons why you desire suicide sometimes and that requires you taking particular actions that are not only actions, but involving your emotions; you need to release emotions that cause actions and you need to understand the relationship between emotions and actions.

One of the qualities of God's Truth is there is a direct link between love, which is an emotion, and truth, which is an action, a law. There are direct links between these particular things and we need to understand these links. If we truly understand this at the soul level we will start applying it to our personal life and we'll go, "Okay, it's not sufficient for me just to change my action. I need to change the reason why I want to act out of harmony with law, out of harmony with the truth, out of harmony with love. Once I change the reason why I want to act out of harmony, everything after that will be easier, because it will be automatic for me to live in harmony with the love and the truth that I've discovered."

So this is a beautiful quality of God's Truth that we need to understand, that there's physical evidence and it's supported by our emotional analysis as well as our intellectual analysis and if one is supporting one, but not the other, then there's a problem with it. If it's a Divine Truth, there will be no separation between the intellectual analysis of a problem and the emotional analysis of the problem. The two will be combined, there'll be no separation, and in fact by combining the emotional analysis of the issue and the intellectual analysis of the issue, there is a high likelihood that we will come up with whether the thing being analysed is God's Truth or not, by analysing it.

So for example, perhaps an example is my own death. There's this religious viewpoint from the first century that got carried into religion that I died for the sins of others. Now if we looked at it purely intellectually there are certain illogical things about that, things that can't be supported by logic. For example, why should I die for the sins of others? That doesn't seem very logical?

**Mary:** Or loving.

But no, see now one's emotional and one's intellectual. Let's look at the logical first. Is there any evidence to support that people's sins disappeared when I died? No. Is there any evidence to support that any person who believes in my blood saving them, actually gets saved? No. Is there any evidence to support that anybody who believes in my body and my blood saving them, actually had any kind of physical change? In other worlds they don't get old, they don't get sick anymore - they don't just by having that one realization? No, no logical evidence.

Let's look at it emotionally for a moment. If we look at it emotionally, how unfair is it that one person pays for the sins of the entire human race? That's pretty unfair and the average person being in that position would feel it's pretty unfair - they would feel it's not very loving. If you were the parent, would you be loving demanding of a child who is good, the punishment to compensate for the child who is bad? No you wouldn't from an emotional perspective; you would rebel against it.

So it's not logical from an intellectual perspective, but it's also not logical from an emotional perspective, so it cannot be the truth. It just cannot be - it does not matter whether people wrote it down, whether it's now in the holy book of the Bible, it cannot be the truth because it's not logical intellectually and it's also not logical emotionally, and for it to be Divine Truth it has to be logic intellectually and emotionally, for it to be God's Truth.

And once I understood this quality I'd go, "Okay, I can look at the different teachings of religious formats and I can throw out that one, throw out that one, throw out that one, I can throw out lots of belief systems, quite simply by just making that one simple comparison. This one quality of Divine Truth can sort out most of your religious life (laughs), in terms of what is worthy of your consideration in terms of practice and what is not worthy of it.

**Mary:** Yes. You had another couple of examples listed here. One was, "Anyone looking at a women to have sex with her has already committed adultery, in his heart."

Which is a quote from the Bible, something I actually did say. (Laughs)

**Mary:** And a person wanting to give up smoking but continues.

Well let's look at the first one, instead of reading it separate. So let's look at the first one, the issue with regard to wanting to have sex with someone, but not actually doing it. The reality is there's a feeling coming out of you that you want to do it. That feeling is out of harmony with love, particularly if you have a partner already; that is definitely out of harmony with love.

So if it's so out of harmony with love then look at the reason why emotionally you desire it. Stop ignoring it, stop trying to dismiss it, stop trying to make it go away by controlling yourself, stop trying to do all the things you would normally do. Be truthful with yourself and go, "Okay, the fact that I have this feeling means that there is a problem. What's the problem? What's the reason why I feel attracted?"

**Mary:** And so in listing this here you're basically saying that there might be physical evidence to say that someone is faithful, but if there's emotional evidence to say that they are not, i.e. wanting to, but not doing it. Then we can ...

Or flirtatious, being flirtatious all the time, but not actually going ahead and having sex with the person.

**Mary:** So you're saying, we can say then that that person's not in harmony with truth, on that issue, because there's not a synchrony between emotional, physical, truth.

Yes, there's no synchronicity between the thing they think they think and the way they actually feel. There's no synchronicity, there's no symbiosis between those two states. If you were truly in harmony with God's Laws on this subject, you would come to understand that it's almost as hurtful for your partner to know that you are attracted to somebody, as it is for you to actually act on that attraction. (Shrugs) And once you understood that, you would understand the necessity of looking at the underlying emotional reason why you feel that way.

Let's look at the second example.

**Mary:** Sure. A person saying that they want to give up smoking, but continuing to smoke, has no intention of giving up.

Exactly. So this is another statement about action. The fact is, if a person chooses to not act, then it means they don't really have a complete desire or intention to act, because the reality is that we always act on the things we really want. So if a person says over and over again, "I'm going to give up smoking," but they never give up smoking, then they're not being honest with themselves if they think they want to. They need to look honestly at the situation.

Now with regard to this quality of God's Truth, God's Truth is asking us to examine our motives, our intentions, our emotions, our feelings, as well as look at the situation logically. So the smoker who's looking at this situation logically from an evidence point of view, he would be going, "Okay, I know logically from an evidence point of view physically, smoking harms me. Obviously I don't care that it harms me."

**Mary:** Or I don't care enough.

Or I don't care enough that it harms me. If I don't care enough that it harms me, that means that I'm willing to pay somebody to actually slowly murder me, or pay somebody to slowly kill me, by taking their cigarettes. This is an indication perhaps that my lack of love of self has not yet been developed. So from an emotional perspective and from a physical evidence perspective, you could see that there's got to be an issue out of harmony with love, out of harmony with God's Truth on the matter. And once I caught a disease from the practice, I would be definitely looking and going, "Wow, the fact that I've got now a disease, which is extreme pain and suffering, as a result of my actions is an indication of how out of harmony I must be on the subject."

**Mary:** Yes. Okay good.

So, in summary of this particular quality, we need to see that God's Truth always has evidence for its existence and the evidence is emotional as well as intellectual, it's physical, as well as emotional and spiritual in its nature and we can't pull it out of one area only. There will be all of these areas that are involved.

**Mary:** I'm just interested in the way that you've actually explained this. When I read that truth, I immediately start to think about it in terms of external truths. Divine Truth demonstrated by action, so how the Universe operates, the workings of God's Truth in action and supported by evidence scientific, emotional, spiritual and physical.

And all that's true. What you just said is true.

**Mary:** Yes, but also this is lovely the way you've very much personalized that, in saying that - from what I understand from what you're saying - when we have a Divine Truth inside of us, there will be evidence that is physical, spiritual, it will be reflected in our actions, our emotions, all of these things will show us. And so to me that's really interesting the way you've chosen to explain that, because it's easy when encountering this truth I think, to think of it in terms of external truth, but it's just as relevant in terms of what's going on inside of us and our own development.

Extremely so, because if you look at it, it's the things that are inside of ourselves that we feel that are out of harmony with love that are going to prevent us from examining the truth of the Universe. We're not going to be able to feel the truths of the Universe while there's something out of harmony with love inside of ourselves. So the two can't be divorced from each other; Universal truth and personal truth can't be separated and yet there is a huge desire for the majority of people to attempt the separation; but it's impossible to separate them in fact, because one, our own lack of desire for personal truth is going to cause us to not know the other, our lack of knowledge about Universal truth.

How we see everything, inside of us, will also prevent us from seeing everything the way God sees everything. Remember Universal truth, God's Truth, absolute truth, is about how God sees everything. So while I'm out of harmony with how God sees everything, internally, then I have no capacity to understand truth.

**Mary:** Yes, I've been sitting here struggling a little bit as we've talked through this quality twelve, because personally from my own experience I know that my ability to analyse external evidence has been completely... like I've lacked logic, because I haven't had intellectual logic, I've been applying logic through my emotional injuries and I often struggle in this area ...

Which by the way many women do, many men do the opposite, they apply logic through their intellectual injuries, if you like without any emotion.

**Mary:** Emotion yes. So when we get into this area I feel really bogged down, because I think, "Yes but hang on, because I'm having this typically feminine way of understanding truth." I think, "Yes, this doesn't hold up because if you're holding onto this emotion, you don't even see it that way." So yes it's a really interesting quality for me to just be around, because my logic has literally shifted, which I know is impossible, but you know I haven't had logic in certain areas and it's ...

Now you have logic as a result of ...

**Mary:** Just feeling through some of the injuries inside of me, that were outside of God's Truth if you like.

So God's Truth was always there, you just couldn't see it, you couldn't feel it.

**Mary:** It's probably feeling it, you know.

Or see it in many cases, until you went through an emotion that released something and now you go, "Ah, that's obvious, that's definitely one of God's Truths." (Laughs)

**Mary:** I have this real thing that I feel like I can't even analyse external truths very well, because I know that I've just got to get the internals right in terms of God's Love and then it'll all be clear. But until that point I still struggle a lot. I'm very much aware now and desirous of this interaction with God's Law, to demonstrate to me where I'm out of harmony, I know my pain will show me that, but when it comes to analysing external truth, it's really limited because of these things that go on.

Exactly, and it's interesting if you take that one step further, because you basically then will say to yourself, "Okay, it's impossible for me to really fully discover all of God's Truths, unless I am willing to fully discover all of my own," and that means discovering them intellectually and emotionally, not just intellectually as a separate emotion. And that means looking at my actions, rather than just my words to determine what the truth is.

So the same thing applies to me now, as it would apply to the analysis of God's Truths universally, and this is the beauty of this particular quality of Divine Truth; it causes you to go into some self-reflection and also to see the relationship between your own inability to understand Universal truth is directly related to your own inability to understand your own truth. And whenever you work through your own inability to understand your own truth and now have an able-ness, an ability to discover your own truth, now you have a greater ability to assimilate God's Truth. So it helps you understand the relationship between the personal truth and the Universal truth, which is another quality of Divine Truth actually, which we'll talk about at the end of this discussion. But it's very important that we understand this relationship between the Universal and the personal.

**Mary:** Yes, I agree, totally.

So I feel once people understand this particular quality, they won't separate so much their desire for Universal truth from their desire for personal truth. What I see happening quite frequently is that people want Universal truth, you start telling them Universal truth and it's their personal truth that prevents them from accepting it. And so then you've got to start focusing on what's your personal truth that's out of harmony with love and God's Truth and then they have huge resistance, they don't want to look through their personal truth, but they want to say, "Oh, tell me more of God's Truth." The reality is, you cannot understand all of God's Truth while you're resistive to the personal truth, because they are analysed in the same way.

**Mary:** Absolutely.

And if you're unwilling to go through the process of analysing it logically through actions and through emotional logic and emotional intelligence, and if you are unwilling to go through all of those processes, then of course you're not going to see what Divine Truth is. So you can ask for it as much as you like, but you are not going to receive it.

**Mary:** Yes and I often see people struggling almost in fear wanting security for you to tell them more Universal truths so they can trust enough to delve into the personal truths, and it can never work because ...

... because unless a person is willing to go through the personal truth they'll never understand what I'm saying to them about the Universal.

**Mary:** And isn't it ludicrous how fearful we are of examining personal truth? It's almost like a no-go zone that people feel ...

That's because of emotional pain, which we've talked about in another quality of Divine Truth: we wouldn't be avoiding emotions of pain if we truly understood the qualities of Divine Truth. We would want to feel all of our own emotional pain, so we'd have a very, very different approach to the discovery of truth, if we wanted to feel our pain. We'd be willing to go through it and therefore we'd be open to then looking at the evidence as it really is, not the evidence we just want to see.

This is a problem I see that most people who don't have this understanding of Divine Truth in their soul, don't look at all the evidence. They only look at the evidence they want to believe, that generally supports their current belief systems.

4. Regarding quality twelve: What does a soul understanding that "Divine Truth is demonstrated by actions, supported by evidence scientific, emotional, physical and spiritual" look like in my personal life?

Well firstly, probably the biggest thing it means is that I will always be looking for supporting evidence (laughs) for any truth or belief system that I have. I will not just assume that I have all the evidence and I would be very honest about the evidence.

So if I examine the evidence; if I say, okay, science must support my opinion, emotions must support my opinion, logic must support my opinion, and the actions once a person engages those things must also support my opinion of what Divine Truth is. So I would be in this phase where I'm always looking to see whether the evidence supports my current opinion of what is true, rather than trying to reject the evidence automatically.

See the majority of people - religiously for example - wish to reject evidence automatically. There's no assimilation of evidence and this is the problem. This is why most scientific people are not religious, because they can see the rejection of evidence and the scientific people want to accept the evidence.

**Mary:** Or at least examine it.

Or at least examine the evidence. So this is why many scientists are not religious and it's unfortunate because there are many things that support religion evidence-wise - support the belief in God for example evidence-wise. But unfortunately because a lot of the times we are not looking at the evidence, we then have a tendency to lump whole belief systems in with the group of people who weren't looking at the evidence.

So for example a scientist then looks at religion and goes, "Oh yes, I can dismiss all of that, because the people there haven't accepted this scientific principle," and the religious people can go, "Yes, I can just ignore a lot of science, because that particular scientific principle was not supported by my love-based analysis." Both points of view are incorrect, because we're not examining all the evidence.

Remember all the evidence includes the spiritual evidence and the emotional evidence and the physical evidence. Anything that's scientific needs to be included in all of those things and also the evidence of what the outcome is, what the actions are and the outcome that is from following that belief system. And if we truly looked at the evidence, we would change many beliefs as a result of that - many of our personal beliefs.

So for example if I did it from a perspective of war, who have been the people mostly involved in war, historically? Well it's mostly the religious nations. (Laughs) What does this tell me? It tells me that there is no evidence to support that their religion promotes love, none whatsoever. Now there are some religions on the Earth that haven't been involved in war, therefore there's evidence here to support the fact that love, they are acting in harmony with love, there's evidence to support that; but for the people who have gone to war, who still say they are a member of a Christian faith, or a Muslim faith, or any other faith for that matter, Buddhist or any other and they've still gone to war, there's no evidence to support that their belief is true.

They need to deal with their belief. It's obviously out of harmony with God's Laws of love, and if I looked at the evidence, just that one little bit of evidence about religion I would have a lot more questions about religion as a result of looking at the one piece of evidence.

**Mary:** So if I just talk through some of the other notes you've got here. Okay, so "A soul-based understanding of this truth would mean that I understand that evidence will come from internal and external sources."

When we say internal and external, we're talking about personal truth verses Universal truth. So what we're saying here is that evidence will come from the external Universe, external to myself, and will also come through my own personal experience; both - it has to engage both.

**Mary:** And so evidence for Divine Truth ...

Or whatever is God's Truth, for whatever is God's Truth there will be evidence universally and there'll be evidence personally. My experience will add to the evidence, my personal experience will add to the evidence. I can't say that it will be one or the other, it's going to be both, because remember this particular truth requires that there is both; personal and universal needs to be incorporated together, so that we can understand truth. So it's a requirement that there has to be both.

**Mary:** Yes. I do not hold onto beliefs that are not supported by evidence.

Exactly, so whenever there is a belief system that I have that there is no evidence to support, I put that belief in the "yet to be resolved" basket. (Laughs) I might not dismiss it completely, I just put it in the "yet to be resolved"; but where there is no physical evidence at all and there has been none for thousands of years to support a particular belief system, then it's highly likely that I can throw away that belief.

So I might just keep it there, just with an open mind, that I might discover something about that in the future. So therefore I won't completely dismiss it. But if all of the evidence points to dismissing it, then I would not definitely retain it as a part of my practice. I would definitely not do it; I would not act upon it.

If also that particular belief didn't support love, I know that I can throw it out straight away. So if you believe for example that you should be able to go to war under some conditions - out of harmony with love, throw it away, it's a false belief. God doesn't believe that, God believes instead that there are no conditions under which you should go to war.

**Mary:** Alright, "Soul based understanding of this truth would mean that I experiment with beliefs," you've just touched on this, "That have yet to be supported by evidence. That is I search for potential evidence rather than dismissing something without reason."

Yes, exactly. So while I also don't absorb something without reason, I also don't dismiss something without reason. We see this happening a lot on the planet where we dismiss things without any good reason, only to find years later or centuries later that somebody discovers that there was a truth in it and we've dismissed it for centuries sometimes, in many cases.

So for example, the whole concept that the Earth was flat, or the Earth was round - dismissed the Earth was round, dismissed without reason, and then years later, centuries later, somebody circumnavigated the Earth and brings back evidence that in fact they didn't fall of the edge of the square Earth, or the flat Earth, and therefore there is now evidence to support it. But most people fought against that evidence even initially, which is an indication that they weren't truly open minded with regard to the evidence.

So we neither accept nor deny evidence; we have an open mind of the evidence. So if there's something internally that we have not yet determined as being God's Truth, instead of dismissing it as a concept or an idea, we look for supporting evidence and we look for denying evidence.

**Mary:** Yes, and by now we are up to the twelfth quality of Divine Truth, aren't we, so we actually have a lot of ways to analyse any situation or anything that's being proposed as a truth, don't we? We've a lot of ways of saying, "Okay, I'm not just going to just leap to believing this, or leap to dismissing it, I can actually analyse this truth, or this situation; there's a lot of ways I can ascertain whether it's worth acting on or believing in, or dismissing.

Exactly and that's the beauty of all of these qualities is they help you determine God's Truth, so far we've discussed thirteen of them, isn't it?

**Mary:** This is quality twelve.

It's quality twelve. So, so far we've discussed twelve of them and yes, we have great evidence to support already what might be truth and what might not be, but with this particular quality, what we do is we're always looking for evidence as well.

So all of those other qualities will help us to determine what evidence we have, but this particular quality says, "I'm going to be open, I'm going to be open to evidence. I'm going to be open to new evidence, contrary to what I currently believe, and I'll be open to new evidence supporting what I currently believe. I'll be open to new evidence all the time, because a person who does so is being scientific, logical and emotionally stable (laughs), and that's what we would choose to do.

**Mary:** Yes and this now in your list you begin to personalize it a bit, so having this understanding would mean that I demonstrate the principles of Divine Truth, by acting in harmony with God's Love.

Exactly, so once I discovered God's Truths and I truly feel them, I will be motivated to automatically act in harmony with love, because all the truths are harmonious with love. So if I'm not acting in harmony with love that is evidence that the truth is yet to hit my soul, truth is yet to enter me; it's yet to be a part of what I really believe. When it's a part of what I truly believe, love will always be the outcome, I'll become more loving by accepting that new truth, whatever that new truth is. It can be physical in nature, moral, spiritual in nature, whatever it is, scientific in nature; it can be any of these things, yet I will still become more loving by putting it into practice, not less loving.

**Mary:** Okay, "Even when I'm judged by others negatively, I still speak the truth and live in love."

Yes. So even when somebody judges me or attacks me, or wants to make my life more difficult: because I honour the evidence that's already been given to me, that all of the truths are in harmony with love, that means that I must act in harmony with love in this situation. If I'm acting in harmony with love in the situation, then of course the outcome is going to be that there is more love available and therefore more truth available to everyone who's present.

**Mary:** In that situation, yes. Okay, "I will always give truth with full understanding and compassion."

Yes, so this is about my sharing of truth. I wouldn't share the truth with somebody while I'm unloving at the time, so I won't be yelling and screaming at somebody telling them they've got to accept that truth.

I would understand that love is a part of this truth being in my soul, so I can't demand that another person accept it. I can't expect that they accept it, I can just share it. I wouldn't even try to overcome their will. If they said to me, "I don't want to hear it," then you don't have to engage the person at all, because I would choose to live in harmony with the love that I understand that truth is always about. Truth and love are always in this harmonious existence with each other and I would understand that. So my understanding of that would mean that I wouldn't even force evidence upon another, once I understood it myself.

**Mary:** Yes, alright. "I never give truth when I am in a state of anger, judgement, condescension or ridicule of others," which is really just the flip side of what you just said.

Exactly, so whenever I know that I'm being unloving I wouldn't choose to dish out the truth. (Laughs) I understand that my very being unloving means that I'm not in a state of truth.

**Mary:** And I would understand also this truth is, Divine Truth is demonstrated by actions and supported by evidence, so I would know, wouldn't I, that there's no way I can say a truth when I'm angry or upset, or demanding - because Divine Truth is demonstrated by actions and supported by emotional evidence.

And if you were really in harmony with what you believe, your actions would be showing that you're a much more loving person than you're currently being.

**Mary:** Exactly, so you'd know, "Oh hang on, I'm not ... I can't even say a truth because I don't have it."

So what you would do is, you'd say, "Look, this is what I believe the truth to be, but I don't yet feel it, because obviously I'm angry." The reason why I'm angry - there's another truth that I need to discover yet.

**Mary:** Yes. Okay, "I never give truth in order to prevent my own emotional experience or avoid my own emotions."

Exactly. So this is a very similar part. I never share the truth with someone else to try to modify their behaviour, so that I don't have to feel something from them and I also don't avoid the truth, avoid sharing the truth, for the same reason. I also don't avoid internalizing the truth for both reasons. In other words I don't avoid internalizing truth because I want to avoid some kind of negative experience of my own, or avoid internalizing truth because I want to try to avoid the negative experience of another. I would always act in harmony with love with regard to all of those methods of dealing with the truth.

**Mary:** And there's so much in everything, in every quality.

There's a lot more that we could say on every single thing obviously and you know we can't, we obviously want to discuss it and then of course later on we can discuss it - there are hours of presentations we can give on each one of these truths.

**Mary:** And in fact part of why we're presenting these things this way is so that when we go to do a question and answer session, or something somewhere, so that people can actually ask us more about what we've presented.

Exactly, so this is like the establishment of a discussion, answering some basic questions about how we can determine truth, God's Truth, what the truth of the Universe is, what is Divine Truth and how do we determine it; these are the ways that we determine it. But we need to understand that every one of these discussions has a lot of things that we could mention and a lot of very fascinating areas of discovery as well for the average person if they actually work through the issues in more detail.

**Mary:** Certainly the single statements you're making here are potentially months worth of self-analysis and emotional work, aren't they?

Exactly, they are.

**Mary:** Okay, next one. "I recognize that the principles of Divine Truth have direct impact on every area of my life."

Yes, so it makes sense that if we're living in a Universe that God created and we're discovering Divine Truth, in other words all the laws surrounding how God created the Universe, it would make sense that we're living in the Universe so of course it's going to have some personal effect on us. (Laughs)

**Mary:** Yes and if there's scientific, emotional, physical, spiritual evidence for Divine Truth, then that's every aspect of our life, isn't it?

Exactly, so it's going to have an effect on every aspect of our life, we can't avoid it. The fact that we're living in God's Universe means that we cannot avoid any of God's Truths in the long run, we will eventually discover them all.

**Mary:** Which is kind of awesome. Okay, "I lovingly accept all of the counsel I receive through God's Laws showing me my soul condition."

Yes, so we see the operation of God's Truths or God's Laws as a loving expression from God to ourselves, we don't see them as something we've got to rebel against or hate. We see that actually God loves us and cares for us, so therefore this law has to have a loving basis.

**Mary:** "I desire Divine Truth in all situations and never reject a situation's ability to teach me love."

Yes so if I've attracted a situation into my personal life and I understand that the laws govern attraction, then I understand that there's something I need to learn here generally. Particularly if the outcome has been painful, or the experience has resulted in my suffering, there's definitely something that I need to learn from these particular experiences.

And so I wouldn't reject the learning from any of these experiences. I wouldn't say, "Oh that's their problem, or that person decided to do that, or the reason why that happened is because that person over there ..." I would see that because I'm personally involved there's got to be something inside of me that I can learn about, with regard to what is happening here.

**Mary:** Yes. Okay, "I desire to know God's Truth on all matters and love the process of learning Divine Truth."

Yes. So instead of hating discovery of new truth, instead of resisting the discover of new truth I go, "I want to know everything God knows." Now I know that it's going to be a physical impossibility being the fact that God's Truth, God's Universe is infinite, God's probably the same, infinite, and therefore we're just a finite being in an infinite Universe. Obviously discovering them all is going to take a time and effort, but I would want to engage that process. I wouldn't resist the process, I wouldn't say that, "Ignorance is bliss," I would want to discover more and more about God's Truth, because I understood that every new truth I discover is going to result in more happiness and more freedom for me. So why wouldn't I want to? It makes no sense to try to avoid discovery of new truth, no sense whatsoever.

**Mary:** Yes, awesome, okay. Well that wraps up quality twelve, which was, "Divine Truth is demonstrated by actions, supported by evidence scientific, emotional, physical and spiritual."

Excellent.

