 
Well I have the honor tonight of music
today's speaker being here you're going
to get a lot out of us and so I want to
see people with depends out falls out
take your notes because when you have
these intellectual opportunities on
campus this is about you growing not
just as students but also growing as as
people so we know that a lot of the
education that takes place happens
outside of the classroom so this is
going to be an opportunity for you to
get some gems and so hopefully you
already so I have the honor of
introducing dr. Gordon he's an apple
juice philosopher musician a Phi Beta
Kappa in philosophy and political
science as a member of the Lehman
Scholars Program at Lehman College and
City University of New York dr. Gordon
specializes in Africana philosophy
phenomenology social and political
philosophy aesthetics and philosophy and
film literature and music philosophy of
existence philosophy of science
philosophy of Education and philosophy
of culture a philosopher a music
musician he is the honorary president of
the global Center for Advanced Studies
and honorary professor in the unit for
the Humanities and Rose University in
South Africa in addition he serves as
chair of global collaborations with the
Caribbean philosophical dissociation as
a musician
Gordon performs music and Bugler's jazz
and alternative rock bands he speaks as
a public intellectual across the globe
and we're looking at his CV I almost
broke the scroll button on my mouse
that sounds trying to get down to the
bottom you're truly an impressive
scholar sir his scholarly work is
amazing he's the author or editor of 16
books and two more in press including
bad faith and anti black racism as
extension africana
understanding
for canonization that substantial
thought an introduction to Africana
philosophy
what Fernand said a philosophical
introduction to his life and thought and
geopolitics in declawed oh my gosh the
Kalam decolonization perspective
perspectives from the global south he is
also published more than 85 journal
articles and 70 book chapters so in
tonight's talk dr. Gordon will examine
the philosophical implications of black
music the context of its birth in some
ways in which its origins often lead to
misunderstandings of its continued value
according to Gordon born from the misery
of enslavement black music is at its
core an assertion of freedom in
countries that refuse to admit the
humanity and value of black people the
discussion will involve exploring in
philosophical terms some of the dynamics
of spirituals blues jazz rhythm and
blues rock reggae and one of my
favorites hip hop so please join me in
giving a warm Quinnipiac University
welcome to dr. Lewis
thank you thank you for that kind
introduction making sure that everybody
could hear me in a way you've already
ordered me when I saw that line coming
out there it's unfortunate that fire
codes are jeopardized but we have the
benefits of technology I'm going to
speak with enough time that I could hear
from you although you're here to hear
from me I take certain positions which
I'll explain that will give a sense of
why it's important for me to hear from
you okay
and the first one I should tell you some
of you have people in this room in the
room called professors and many of you
in the room have the identity of
students but I gotta let you in on a
secret what a professor really is is an
advanced student a professor is someone
who fell in love with learning and just
continued to learn and so as you join
this world of learning it's you bring to
it things that are different from a lot
of us who are professors which means the
other secret which is now open what
every professor knows is that all we're
here although we're here to teach you
we're also always learning from you so I
begin first I never speak with my shoes
on so some of you have seen me on
various oh good no hole in my socks and
many of you have seen me in other
context and so right away I have to
explain that the reason I don't speak
with my shoes on there are many reasons
and don't get caught up into the
mentality that when you give reasons
there must only be one reasons are not
like this television series highlander
you know it can only be one now it shows
my age because you are so you even know
what I'm talking about
but one reason is that when one speaks
one is expected to speak truth and truth
connects to those who preceded us the
ancestors and as ancestors they have
descendants who are we in this room and
if we take seriously the relationship of
ancestors to descend
then the descendants are also people are
not in this room and if you make
yourself really accountable to truth
then it should be able to speak across
the ages and as a consequence the
accountability the evidential t is right
there in this notion of ancestors and
descendants now of course it gives you
an idea that our planet is in trouble
because there are some people who don't
understand that they have no regard for
the ancestors and they don't care about
descendants because they're narcissism
makes them think that when they die that
is the end of the world which makes some
of the issues like what happened last
Friday very crucial because how do we
explain the idea all right
that we have put in the hands of not
only our lives but a lot of other lives
on the planet people who have no regard
for accountability to those to come so
it's an act of respect also when I take
off my shoes because another metaphor of
truth is that truth is naked and I'm not
going to get naked but I can at least
symbol it symbolically be naked by
taking my shoes off have my feet on the
ground as a connection to the ancestors
and the descendants and of course
there's nothing wrong with another
reason it's comfortable so that is where
we begin now I'm going to be I bought it
what I'm going to do is I'm going to
talk about music I'm gonna talk about
what what do we even mean when we say
black and then I'm going to to connect
them briefly and that way there's
sufficient time for those of you who
would like to ask questions and those of
you you have additional things to do
some of you might decide to go to your
studies or other matters and because as
we see this as being recorded it affords
an opportunity for people whom none of
us will ever meet those people will have
an opportunity to join this conversation
and may take may actually contribute to
it in ways we cannot imagine
now earlier today I had the good fortune
of going over to the Albert Schweitzer
Center and I would like to say thank you
not only to the organizers were also
just airing out and also to this
University for the very idea of having
lectures like this and part of this is
that these lectures understand that
philosophy is also public now there
people are against the idea of
philosophy being public some people look
at philosophy as a professional
technical exercise and they could they
could do that but once you take
accountability seriously there has to be
an understanding of philosophy they can
speak to you to you to you to you and
the camera to you so the first thing is
when I went over to the average flights
or Center I had some fun because we
walked around there's a piano in there
and I play up a variety of instruments
so I went to play the piano and this is
connected to an experience that's very
similar that is many times it's actually
although it's great to play a highly
tuned piano it's rather interesting
sometimes when you go and there's a
piano and there are witnesses there are
the listeners here who had heard me
played the piano over there but this
also happened when I lectured in South
Africa I gave a talk in South Africa
where I went over to the piano my guest
said it's not tuned and I said no
problem so I sat down and I played had a
good time and the piano I was playing
today was also not tuned but when I
finished my hosts went over and said we
thought it wasn't tuned and right one of
my colleagues here am I am i lying
was it an on tune piano
did it sound on tuned it sounded there
were other listeners and here's the
mistake people make you see if you
really if you're concerned is to make
music really make music then you pay
attention to a simple fact just because
something is outta tuned doesn't mean it
cannot make music you just simply have
to play it in a different way and some
of us forget that in fact we bring that
rigid mentality to music also to society
we think if certain people are out of
tune they can't make music in our
society and the music of course is
living together just as all these things
we think about but if we stay clinging
to the idea that people have to be tuned
we try to force them into the in the
keys rather than to create keys that
enable them to flourish and so that's
the first thing to remember being out of
tune
doesn't mean you don't belong and you
can't make music now the second thing is
some of the things I talked about may
seem a little technical so I'll give up
I just want to give a little musical
exercise so we could be together we
could be as if we're on one page now I
said piano but this one is drums okay so
I'm some of you may have seen me do this
in various settings but let's just go to
it
okay you got that now what did I just do
well I just did two bars of seven one
two three four five six seven one two
three four five six seven now the first
thing to bear in mind is that there are
many ways to count seven seven after all
could be four and three seven could be
five and two and seven could be one in
six now although I tapped each time the
same way then each of them sound
different and this is something crucial
to bear in mind because you see if I had
started off by asking you will they
sound different you go into a silo and
try to say well I'm will be different
but if you then are asked afterward
there are people who may tell you that
you're also radically separating your
silos that you cannot share and
understand something as a community yet
what I just did was something
collectively we heard and that tells you
something because we're part of the same
species and communicative practices that
enable us to hear beats and music but
what I just did was more than that
because you see if you study logic or
you know other areas of philosophy I
also showed what a musical bar is and a
musical bar revealed what's called a
well formed formula or full sentence and
in addition to that what I just
demonstrated is that a condition of
possibility of us being able to hear
this is us sharing a word
there's communicability and so although
many of you from different backgrounds
different languages we connect through
the very fact of learning languages to
communicate other languages and that is
called a transcendental argument but it
also reveals something significant
because it means philosophy can be
communicated not simply through words
but can be communicated rhythmically now
of course you can do seven in many ways
right the way I just did it was you know
but of course you could do seven this
way that's seven in fact you could go to
other six that's six right but we live
in the world in which people impose upon
us the notion that somehow real music
doing it properly instead of the way
humanity once approved move say no no no
be rational man imagined or at best a
walls
now humanity used to know how to party
give me your fancy right and suddenly
you'll be told to go well in a way
that's also a story that's the story of
colonialism Colorado's colonialism tries
to tell all humanity we should be
squeezed into a little box and somehow
if we have some life some rhythm some
passion somehow we're not being rational
but even there it gets weird it's a very
narrow view of rationality and reason
for instance all right there are people
for instance who think you should
contain yourself to be rational in fact
one model of it is that to be rational
you must be consistent all right which
means whatever you say here must be
consistent with what's said here and
here and here so logically speaking if
you go on infinitely you can be
maximally consistent sounds really great
right maximally consistent however I ask
you all of you in this room would any
fuel of one day to be married to a
maximally consistent person really think
about it I mean you already know that
would be hell because of course ratchet
Allah is a part of us but but in fact
you know part of being well if you are
with someone who's maximally consistent
as the order of rationality at one point
where you're in the inevitable argument
the inevitable moment of dispute you're
going to say to that person you are so
rational that you are unreasonable isn't
that something
that reason ability and rationality are
not identical and this is crucial
because you see reason ability requires
taking runts responsibility also for
rationality which means that it's
connected to other ways of relating to
the world for instance to be rational to
know how to follow a rule but to be
reasonable is to know what it's
appropriate to break them and that is
part of what it is to be a human being
so that's to introduce some
understanding of the way I'll talk about
music that would require thinking of it
in an open way so I go straight directly
to black among the things that many of
us don't think about is we use the word
black and I was having a wonderful
conversation you know I'm also Jewish
and one of the things I notice about
when people talk about Jews is they
always think the Jews they know are the
Jews ah laughter of recognition what's
the same thing black everybody think
they're blacks aren't the blacks and
they don't realize that the people
they're referring to tend to be a matter
of location so for instance in the
United States is right now hegemonic
it's a powerful country before when
people talked about blacks they talked
about the UK bringing it all right the
British Empire for that they talked a
lot about it with the that the French
Spanish the Dutch etc empires and same
thing with Jews you could follow the
history of how people think of Jews
according to who was the latest Empire
when it was Spanish Empire Sephardic
Jews ruled that was how people thought
of Jews what do you think of caliphates
the Arabic world Arab Jews ruled and it
goes on and on and on and on right now a
lot of people think about Jews as
understood in the United States well the
thing about blacks the first thing to
remember is that there was no reason
absolutely no reason for the ancient
people of Africa or many people
different periods in Africa to have
thought of themselves as black they
thought of themselves as well
for uber right oza
Pocoyo Luo etc similarly there was no
reason for most people in Europe to
think of what we came here um that is to
think of themselves as white
there were Celtx vandals varieties of
other groups and not only that concepts
like white and black had different
meaning so for instance it's hard for
many people today to understand that
there are places where for instance
black is just such a cool wonderful
thing especially when it is so hot that
the Sun will burn the crap out of you so
you look forward to the night and within
those frameworks that is very different
there are also other ways of thinking of
black the way people think of it in
Australia New Zealand when they think of
the quarry people here you know them as
aboriginals the Maori people etc however
the black that most of us are talking
about is the black that was created from
euro modern colonialism enslavement and
the degradation of humankind made global
ok that's what many people think about
and within that framework they think of
black in such a way that they almost
they fail to understand when they think
about black they fail to understand that
this was being done to people to people
and that means people have points of
view so the first black I'm going to
talk about the first black to to just
summarize is the black is understood
from the people who impose black on them
and that's often a negative black but
there's another black there's the black
that comes from the lived reality of
people who affirm their dignity in the
world and that black we could call it
with a capital B that black tends to
connect people with thinking about black
in creative ways to understand this
distinction
try to if you look at a lot of the ways
people talk about black people it's
promised on the idea that black people
must just be imitations or echoes of
white people and a lot of people don't
realize that fallacy I'll give you an
example a lot of times these days people
love to say the word black Jesus and
it's really funny because when I write I
always say white Jesus because there's
no way anybody historically is in that
part of the world was white okay and so
the real you know so white Jesus is the
fiction and so we know but within that
framework the presumption that black
must be imitation leads to certain
fallacies so for instance if black
people don't fit certain beliefs certain
scientific presumptions certain
expectations of the world the responses
what is wrong with those people and WB
the boys the African American
philosophers sociologists political
economists the list is long he basically
says that this comes from a mistake of
making people into problems instead of
looking at the problems they face if you
look at the problems people face then
you understand that they're human beings
facing problems and you could understand
how human beings respond to being put in
those situations and so when we begin to
understand black that way we begin to
think differently about how we can think
about music because you see if you're
completely closed off if you're
completely just an object for people's
degradation there's no room for you to
assert your humanity and many people
when they look at these issues they tend
to collapse them only into moralistic
concerns and that hides a very basic
fact for instance when people are resist
oppression they often speak about the
revolution you're going to change the
world going to make things different but
the problem is they often try to outline
a world that's supposed to save people
but if you analyze it and look at it
carefully it's a desire to create a
world in which people cannot actually
live oh no would you all like to live in
the world in which you don't have art on
the wall paintings music where you eat
oh god forbid purely bland food right a
world in which you cannot have pleasure
joy and this is becomes crucial because
you see if we go and look at enslaved
people and not all black people were
enslaved but if we just look at enslaved
people enslaved people and really try to
imagine this the rations for many
enslaved people per year was a bag of
cornmeal some animal fat some salt and
maybe some pieces of fish nobody could
live off that so the people had to find
a way to find food on their own and in
the midst of that as they work together
to do this they begin to develop ways of
thinking about the world and as they do
this they begin to do something that at
first we don't realize is ultimately
revolutionary and what that is is that
they begin to develop a way to be with
each other that in a world that say
they're nothing that they're crap that
there have no value none whatsoever
they begin to defy all that by having an
understanding of themselves as deserving
pleasure joy celebrations and among
those many ways is music so many of you
know the spiritual
but if one talks about spirituals purely
in the old way I teach a course in
global existentialism for instance and a
lot of people don't know that a lot of
existential ISM also came out of
religious thought but it was from people
being very critical of the way people
looked at worship some of you who are
religious could you imagine you go to a
church or you go you know or if you went
to a synagogue or a mosque and the
attitude but let's pick a church since a
lot of people from that background and
you go in and you know what those things
are like god I mean God Wow awesome God
would be I mean must be if you believe
there's a god and you're gonna show up
to the most awesome thing in the
universe since you don't I mean and so
if you want to do it differently you're
gonna have to have what check regard
calls clear and trembling or you could
do what John bless you or what you know
that Aykroyd wrote and the Blues
Brothers where they have the church
scene it goes in the light hits them and
they can dance you're moved and so in
the spirituals was also something
beginning that was very profound
they were song they were in groups but
they also created meaning and this is
crucial because if you can bring meaning
to the world then you are an expression
of freedom okay and then out of that we
know came the blues and many feel a few
you know what's interesting about this
is you see again we don't have fall in
the trap you see the trap is to treat
something like the blues as if it was it
was exclusively just coming out of one
place like one thing one way however the
blues there are many explanations one
version of the blues is a lot of you
don't know this but particularly the
angular world a lot of the people who
were who are white who are directly in
touch with the people who are enslaved
were Irish or Scottish or Welsh
and I bring this up because as you know
in the blues the blues are also people
come from Africa with music from Senegal
from music from you know parts of Ghana
from different from Nigeria etc but why
did I bring up these Irish Welch and so
forth well you see the Irish had a
concept called the Blue Devils all right
now I know some of you are not over 21
but I have a strange feeling a lot of
you're familiar with what happens if you
drink too much alcohol because that
waking up that next morning is to wake
up to God's flashlight alright and
that's the Blue Devils you know right
but there's another blues that was also
from the African continent blue indigo
blue things
there were mood celebrations but they're
also special rituals associated Zulu so
blue in the blues began to emerge and
what's amazing about the blues is you
all notice everywhere on the planet
today there's somebody listening to the
Blues there are people in Beijing
sitting down oh man gotta listen to
Blues they're people in Argentina
listening to the Blues they're people in
Mongolia there are people in Stockholm
Sweden everywhere they're people is in
blues and why well you see this is one
of the extraordinary things because
despite all of these efforts to degrade
these people who became black people you
see these people lived in a world where
they were communicate with other people
and humanity began to create something
that challenged that world of
degradation and that in doing so there's
a technical term the Blues became the
late moody Lear motif of what we call
the euro modern world yeah they're all
though they're all kinds of musics you
could play every kind
popular music in the world today has
some connection to the blues even
country-western you know somebody's
playing away oh I'm sorry I lost my
horse my dog my cat my whatever and they
have their a confederate flag and they
yeah oh yeah I hate black people but
they're playing black music they're
people punk-rock Skynyrd's I rock and
roll my rock'n roller they're playing
black music now there's some interesting
things about black music vehicle things
I could say about it but just to give
you a sense if I'm just going to explain
it 12 bar blues okay 12 more blues you
make a statement then you repeat the
statement then next time you say it you
move to up what's called a dominant
fourth four notes up and then you go
back to the statement but then you make
a shift into a dominant and then you're
back now what's interesting is if you
made a statement the first time why
repeat it
well the repeated moment although it's
the same words it's different it's
almost as if to say had you heard me it
comes back in but because it refers it
gives you what's called a perception
self-reflection connection you see and
then when you put a twist on it it's
often done with a slight dissonance
right so there's a tension and then when
it comes back there's another thing
where it seems lost and that it's
resolved now why do I what is this you
know that's a structure if you listen to
certain blues and there are many blues
musician it'll take too much time again
to them but one of the Hmong the people
I loved was to listen to Dinah
Washington if it isn't the bestest
listen to all kinds of people sing the
blues that needs some people y'all sing
the blues too well but Dinah Washington
has a great great song crazy top blue
now listen to these lyrics I got drunk
last night and I took my man to his
wife's for a door yes I got juiced last
night I took my man to his wife's front
door okay so that's that's the said much
he repeated I'm just hurrying it along
but then the next part but she was a 45
packin mama so I ain't gonna do that no
more now if you look at the structure of
this it's really profound because she
says something that's clearly
inappropriate right and she repeats it
in case you think did she really say
that
but then she puts a twist that shows the
implications of this and then she takes
responsibility for her actions and this
is the part that's profound I remember
years ago when I was writing I was
writing I wrote a in the 90s an essay
called Frederick Douglass as an
existentialist and there was a real
schmuck who said oh what's the point of
talking about existentialism and
enslaved people if they're not legally
free you know they have no conception of
freedom or existence I'm like yo if
you're enslaved you're thinking about
freedom a lot and what this person so
you know so this thinking about freedom
but here's the thing that's about
freedom and this is thing about freedom
you know people love to talk about
freedom in this country love to talk
about freedom while developing rigorous
ways of increasing enslavement it just
says that's the history of this country
right
freedom is great ah but man we want to
profit from enslaving but at the same
time a lot of people are afraid of
freedom and again there's not enough
time to elaborate it but the short
version the short version of freedom is
if you're free if you're really free
then you're also responsible for your
actions and it's really powerful that
people even in a situation of the whip
the chain the brutality being told your
property their things they still
understood the complexity of
responsibility for their freedom and so
in that music it leads to jazz and in
jazz jazz is a music of freedom how do
we know jazz the music of freedom well
from one thing I played all over the
world and I could meet jazz musicians
and we don't have to say anything we
don't even have to put I could just
simply say let's play and I saw though
one two three four one two three let's
do it and jazz musicians join me and
they perform and that's because we
communicate we listen to we play with
each other now this has profound
philosophical implications
first of all with jazz you don't have to
have what you're going to perform
spelled out ahead of time it is while
performing the composition is done and
that challenges certain models of how we
think about mind but additionally in
jazz what comes together are several
crucial elements raised in what is
called black thought so I'm going to
just say them and conclude because I
want to hear from you the first one is
pretty straightforward if you're going
to enslave people dominate them and tell
them they're nothing if you're going to
tell people their property you you force
them to ask the question what am i and
in that question that raises what's
called a philosophical anthropological
question of what is a human being could
imagine if you all walked in and
somebody walked up said hey
all of you in this room you're not human
beings and you know that what you like
what do you mean I'm not a human being
now if you were to say to someone who
did that I'm as human as you are you
would have lost the argument because you
would have made the person who
challenged your humanity the standard of
being human so suppose you say and if
you want to make a person who's racist
homophobic sexist
you know anti-semitic full of
Islamophobia all kinds of racism
misogyny do you want that to be the
standard so you say I'm not gonna make
that a standard I'm going to be the
standard but the same point what gives
you the right to be the standard have
you worked out your psychoanalytical
issues so at that point you begin to
realize that maybe the standards need to
be interrogated and that's the
philosophical anthropological question
the second one is easy if you have a
world of enslavement then of course
you've got to meditate on freedom
freedom becomes crucial and then the
third one is tricky because in a third
one you are going to question the way
people question the way we question
things in other words one of the
challenges raised by enslavement
colonization and all those categories is
a crisis of justification and so if even
justification is challenged about
whether it's justified then the issue at
hand becomes how do we connect these
things together and so when we come to
the music we move very quickly then into
other kinds of music because you see in
jazz is freedom but also other things
came out of jazz because you know jazz
has all kinds of things going on but you
know in jazz you also lead to R&B so you
get better
right and then before you know what you
got Marvin Gaye and you got soul Otis
Redding you got a reefer Franklin you
got soul music going on and after a
while people got it people begin to
learn things like people begin to learn
in the rest of the world that hey they
got hips alright people get to learn
about the funk this funk you ever wonder
where funk is from I'll be a lot of
people don't realize when you say you're
the funk you know what funk really means
it's distinct but at the same time so
how do you make it funky whatever look
at that you ever seen people dance funky
especially when people can't dance but
they want to dance funky they always do
something with your lip
but if you look at the anatomy it's like
they're trying to squeeze one out
they're gonna make it funky right and
then but but it but they're you know but
then from there you begin to realize
wait a minute
that's crude that's rude but hey maybe
you know when I give an example of
maximal consistency that was like about
purity and at human beings and our
purities well you see here is one of the
things about the black it's not
exclusively black because indigenous
America raised this issue - what all
this is about is realizing that the
truth of our society is that every
society has dirty laundry every society
has the funk and we should all if we
want to deal with reality and truth not
simply deal with our niceties oh I like
the air but we also need to deal with
our funk and within that framework there
people who take other ways to do it now
why did I also tap comes to hip-hop
because you see hip-hop began to
challenge the very notion of music and a
musical instrument in fact the very fact
that this podium is not just a podium
but can be made into an instrument
tells you that it has multiple meanings
and part of human freedom is the ability
to bring meaning to the world in hip-hop
people began to bring new meaning to
everything from a record to a sound even
to what it is to sing if you don't ever
heard this Marchese you got what I need
you know what I'm talking about now of
course the brother can sing but that's
what makes it sound great you know I
mean he sits there and he goes and thank
goodness I'm a terrible singer so it
worked you got what I need but you say
he's just a friend
and you say he's just a friend he goes
oh baby you write and it makes it work
because it makes you think that music
doesn't have to be the way people have
forced music on you now this is not to
romanticize all of this we don't have
time to get into it but they're all
they're all so elements that will seduce
that are not interested in dignity
freedom not interested in the critical
or artistic sense of black music they're
people who want black music only to be
entertainment and this is where that
requires a longer discussion because at
the heart of it is the distinction
between playing with laughing with
performing with and laughing act playing
act making fun off and the long
complicated thing is that however a form
of freedom is asserted in black music
there's always been an effort to
domesticate it to turn it into minstrel
see to reassert the notion that
something is somehow
particularly black when it erases its
humanity but we don't have to leave
ourselves locked at that we can take
very seriously at least some of the
messages that offers for us to
understand the society we live in and
what these things mean so if we go and
I'm going to conclude with the Jazz
allegory because you see what if just
what if our society was like a jazz
performance and what I mean by that is
if you look at a jazz performance when a
jazz musician plays her job or his job
when another musician is playing someone
takes the lead so there's a point where
you're playing and a soloist comes up
but it's not a soloist in a technical
sense because that person is taking the
lead so it's not a person who's been
doing the Doudna work the job of every
other musician is to drive that musician
to do her or his best performance and
then when he or she finishes the sax
solo the trumpeter everybody tries to
make the trumpeter do her or his best
performance and then you get to the drum
the drum solo same thing in other words
a society committed to making the music
work and this is a dangerous moment in
our society because they're people of
resentment who don't want our society
society ultimately to work to groove so
to speak because it's become like the
band shows up but is an obnoxious
drummer who just keeps soloing no matter
who's playing or you know the person who
you know I remember I played with a band
once where there's a guy who always
always no matter what you do have to hit
the last note you know what I'm talking
about
sometimes at the end we're doing little
work
we're supposed to ago ha Niko's
we got to give him a name
you know I won't say stay but that's
nice a his name is John because that's
just generic we could say last no John
you know and that's what malignant
narcissism is about however these other
examples will you make yourself
accountable will you understand that you
are actually working to it together to
make music is an expression of non
narcissistic love narcissistic love says
I love you because you like me that's
narcissistic love but non narcissistic
love loves you in a way to build your
potential and your capacity to grow and
if you think about it that point I made
about ancestors and descendants they're
not here they're anonymous so if we act
from the expression of non narcissistic
love of radical freedom radical love and
what it is to build societies that
groove then one of the messages one not
the only but one of the messages from
black music is to build through that
love its reach to the anonymous to live
their own lives and the message that we
hope at best we can get from them is
that when they look back at what we do
they think and they simply say thank God
they acted thank you
yes please say your name hello okay so
the question is can i connect the
literature of the Harlem residents
Renaissance to black music okay
okay that's the first question next all
right we're okay good
I have Professor Jonathan Richter again
hello using the free work you'd sort of
laid out our presentation how would you
unpacked the artists in the 1930s I
believe al jolson if you're familiar
with them how would you unpack someone
that was if I would I would say is
talented of course with it well the
singing in is and song and it's
performing but of course him using black
basis or problematic and of course in
today's time with them of course in the
past we look back okay so the question
is about Al Jolson and blackface okay
more by the way don't get don't get I
all drivers they're people there are
people who sue so freaked out about
certain issues but remember I said we
deal with the funk too and it's I think
it's healthier if people can deal with
uncomfortable issues okay yes I'm sorry
oh yeah okay go ahead and then we'll be
over here yeah question
hello you image as especially in time
structure and structure itself
Elyan against western styles of music
that were glued on like artists
okay and we have over here I got a
question
reflection of the Al Jolson question
that is the musician in plays and
waitress grew up in the 50s and 60s as
my hair and I like yours reflects some
long time ago a fellow who fell in love
with this music and really learned it
from the people I call least in my life
the first cultural appropriate
so I learned probably every note of
guitar that in in my early life from guy
named Eric Clapton and at the time had
no idea where the music came from of
course eventually Tommy way back and
then became embarrassed about playing
and so how does the guy who plays in
Whiteface address dab is the context for
history but I have I have no right to
stand in the shoes of the people who
have become my musical heroes the Robert
Johnson's that were Gary Davis's blindly
blatantly Dale all those guys okay
yes
okay so there's been a lot of talk
lately about cultural appropriation and
then I to listen to and read about and
discuss with people music and it feels
as if there's a shift in depending on
who you read who you listen to the fact
that in America which is rumor has it a
melting pot these musics were going to
come together anyways because we always
were listening Stephen Foster was
listening to the slaves and its monetary
appropriation I think more than cultural
appropriation
let me feel about that okay well what
I'm gonna do is start oh it is one more
one reason I'm going to start after
after you Joanne is because one time I
did it he just kept going but the
audience forgot what the other questions
were so Joanne and then I'll start
speaking I know I know her name Joanne
because she's one of the honors students
who came for lunch okay well thank you
thank you for those these questions
they're wonderful questions they enable
us to get into other dimensions of the
talk clearly my talk was to outline a
set of a set of problematics
the thing about there are l'amour
Renaissance were many writers but a
particular one to pay attention to is
Alain Locke and Alain Locke wrote the
new Negro he wrote a variety of other
essays and all of Renaissance was
working not only at level of music for
the level of sculpting the level of
visual arts etc but Aaron Locke had a
very interesting argument it can be
summarized by simple phrase
which is human beings cannot live in
value less worlds and I think it's a
really beautiful analysis someone could
give you all the material comforts but
if they took out value right the things
that make life worth living everything
from the food you eat to you know the
the art you may have that there's a
reason why the first thing you do when
you move into a house or an apartment is
decorate you're transforming a place
into I mean a space into a place and so
what the Harlem Renaissance realized was
that although people treat it often
treat culture and the question of
aesthetic production as a side issue
like you have the main stuff and are you
adding the garnish that is false because
we know if you took that took those
dimensions out of the lives of people
you can have a world in which people
have a lot of material needs met but
they commit suicide because life ceases
to be worth living and this is an
insight that was in the Harlem
Renaissance as well there were also
those who were today's language black
bush people who want to show white
people that we are as civilized as they
as good as they look what we could
create but that's why I made an argument
that if you try to present yourself as
justified through imitation you would
have lost okay and so the question of
for Al Jolson that song I'm writing a
book called fear of black consciousness
comes out comes out next year and I have
sections where I talk about this issue
but there's another book in which my
wife Jane Gordon and I it's called of
divine warning reading disaster in the
modern age where we also talk about that
the thing about blackface that's
complicated is before we get to Jolson
is the the need remember you know that
point my talk about humor when I talk
about the distinction of laughing with
versus laughing at there was a real need
to believe that black people are so
non-human
that we lack the capacity to understand
how can our condition okay it used to be
there was a time when many whites would
say if I were black I'll kill myself now
really think of the logical implications
of that if it's true that to be black is
to find your existence so abhorrent that
you'd kill yourself then it leads to the
next logical question why don't a lot of
black people kill themselves right and
there was a long time it was believed
that black people were endemically
incapable of suicide to the point where
Alvin pissant and Amy Alexander did a
book called african-american suicide and
there are all kinds of issues around
this but what it comes down to is the
presumption that even to think about
understanding right the black condition
is something black people are incapable
above so you have to place that
condition through putting into the black
externality a white consciousness you
see the logic and in that white
consciousness there became then blacks
who would put on blackface but they but
what they would perform as supposedly
black was a stereotype because it was a
projection of what a world an anti black
racist
needed to believe black people were like
you see what I'm getting at so the
performance is not only for black people
it's to enable people who hate black
people to exhale so that's the first
logic in and that's why people love to
see white super form blackness and it
gets very tricky there's a pretend what
a brilliant movie on this issue is of
obviously get out but there are lots of
others right but but here's where it
gets tricky because you see black
consciousness is okay as long as it's a
conscious that's not politically aware
so let's just imagine this relates to
some of the other questions right so in
other words if a person put on blackface
but then started to speak like Malcolm X
and actually give a whole critique of
the society and it's in justices then
they're gonna well we know what happens
to white people who join black struggles
and are socially manifested as a
political critique of society a lot of
them also got lynched along with blacks
happen in South Africa it happened in
this country and so the reason minstrel
see did work is to lock black people at
the level of effect and entertainment
but the deeper question all right a for
black political consciousness a in a
white body would have the same problem
all right now it's not to say that they
are the same existential condition
because there are other factors in how a
white person lives in the world okay but
and then it makes it more complicated
because Al Jolson was Jewish and this is
even more complicated because you see
what many of you don't know is the
history of Jews in Europe today people
are rewriting Jewish history to meet
their ideological needs but Jews in
Europe were not white people and in fact
there's a complex it'll take a long time
to explain this but an effort to make
Jews palatable in the United States
required
separating Jews from the history of Jews
a lot of you don't know the concept race
emerged to describe after all Muslims
and Jews so in an effort to separate
Jews from race the question of religion
came in and in a country that says you
have religious freedom then you could
say look I have my religion but now the
question okay if your religion is
Judaism what is
race and in the country that says you
could only be a full citizen if your
race is white it led to a complicated
history of how to make European Jews
because there were a lot of Jews in this
country were also not European a lot of
people don't know about everything from
East Indians used African Jews a lot of
people a lot of people don't know a lot
about you - Jews I I created centers to
study Jews and I worked where Jewish
communal of the world there's so many
kinds of Jews and that's why I open up
with saying people think they're Jews or
the Jews but somehow a small set became
the representative of the rest and they
became white Jews but to see to become
white in America is a complicated
phenomenon not just with Jews with
Greeks with Italians with Irish if you
look at all the Europeans who became
they they initially were not white but
if you look at their histories and I'll
give you an example I gave a talk at the
Hellenic Museum in Chicago and at the
talk it shows the history of how Greek
Americans became white the Ku Klux Klan
used to lynch them go after them and
believe it or not it was Greek woman who
had set up a meeting in Colorado with a
Ku Klux Klan and in that meeting they
said what can we do to be acceptable to
you people and they said you gotta be
Christian and you gotta be white and I
was like well how do we come white well
very simple hate on the blacks and so
Greek civic organizations emerged that
undersurface looked like it was to
celebrate Greek cultural pride but they
were actually white assimilating
organizations because Greeks before
actually connected more of black
communities and became a form of
conflict and loud groups become why two
conflicts of black communities and so if
you're going to put men in the midst of
that moment in history
the deeper subtext of Al Jolson putting
on blackface was not simply because
remember it has to be a white so it's
not so much right that simply had the
blackface
but in the film moment is signified a
subtext of becoming white you see and so
within that framework this gets to the
other complicated issue because you see
jazz musicians if we we have to get out
of the idea of black aesthetic
production as reactive it was not necess
it is some artists deliberately will
take on certain Western forms but
generally speaking no louia from Louie
Armstrong all the way through even to
Art Tatum even if you go through the
complex issues Monk was doing it wasn't
to take on white people or any of that
it was to radicalize our understanding
of music you know when I was playing
earlier for instance I played a song I
wrote for Thelonious Monk that used a
lot of dissonance and it challenges what
we think music is in other words they
were artists and in some forms they may
use European forms and others they
didn't now I'm going to put for a lot of
my writings
I am adamantly against the cultural
appropriation argument it's it's become
and there are many reasons there are a
lot of things I have unconventional
views on and here's the reason I have a
problem the first problem is that when
something is properly cultural properly
cultural right it is communicable and
what is communicable there are so many
things that many of you have in this
room right now that you think is white
or Western that are not and that's
because they work so well with the way
you live that you're able to make them
you could bring them into the orbit of
your life when I in Jewish Studies for
instance I show a lot of things that
people think today are Jewish that were
not historically Jewish but it's not
that they're not Jewish now it's just
that Jews brought Jewish meaning to it
you see now why do I bring that up when
we think about for instance rock and
roll there a lot of rock and roller
who are trying to play the blues if you
look at Led Zeppelin they they thought
they were playing the blues but they
brought their stuff to it and became
their kind of music but to bring it home
there was one day I was I was in actions
in New Haven I went to get gas this is
what I was a graduate student and I'm
I'm going to pump gas and you know and
you know you pumping the gas and I'm
like dad that beats good so I'm like
pumping the gas you know I'm getting
into it going I'm like man I should ask
that person who it is so I turned around
and it was just white guy right and
people would want to call that cultural
appropriation but it's insulting to the
music to do this and here's why perhaps
he was listening to the music because
the music was good you notice that with
all of this obsession with cultural
appropriation people are forgetting to
listen to the music salsa is amazing
reggae is amazing you don't have to
those people in China who listen to the
Blues don't have to be thinking of their
history of being enslaved and on
plantations etc to know the beauty of
the music they may not understand it in
the same way but if you think about it
today for instance you can't think of be
an Irish without potatoes
although potatoes were from Peru what
are Italians without pasta but that's
from China tomatoes from new world corn
we can go out with foods all these
things that people treasure as part of
their identity we have it from elsewhere
but if something is useful in the human
world human beings will use it and so if
we come to this question the problem is
there there are longer reasons why
people get into these debates but the
problem is people are confusing the
concept of appropriation with the other
issue of historical misrepresentation
amnesia and exploitation for instance
there are a lot of things that
many of you now know as white that were
historically black when I teach my
classes I explain if you took black
people out of history what your day
would be like you wouldn't be able to
turn on your your your light bulb
because the filament was invented by a
black person the doorknob black person
so you're stuck in your room and then
are and then you know you you have to
deal with other things the porch porch
porches won't develop my Europeans
enslave people broad porch to the world
because African structured homes were
such that they were designed so you
could look at the children but if you're
outside looking at children the Sun is
down on you so you have to put a shade
and you play porches porches were
brought here by that soap oh man how
about brakes oh you wouldn't have to
drive your car here you be in trouble
you start going to the music you're
listening to we just showed that the
music that dominates most of world
whether it's the clanging
country-western all the way to the rock
and roll to whatever else that is from
right now and of course the point isn't
to valorize black people it's just
saying those are contributions because
there are many groups right now I don't
know what many people are doing is
country without sushi or what a lot of
people would do it out oh god what will
happen to suburbs without yoga you're
right
I mean and so but but the point is when
people participate in it they bring
their stuff to it the real issue is not
to erase the history is to make the
connections you see I want to have a
world of people if you look at jazz
musicians for instance jazz musicians
were breaking segregation ahead of a lot
of other people why because they love
the music and wanted to play together
many good men may may you know he made
sure he had other people such as Lana
Hampton playing with him and it's not
that he's a more noble or a better human
being than others is he loved the music
and so there are many ways in which the
participation ended in the stuff that
make our heart move the stuff that
brings our passion that that is the
thing to focus on and so I would rather
hear that people listen to hip-hop
cause they love the music there are some
people because I don't think most whites
who listen to hip-hop want to be black
there's a whole other issue about the
commercialization of hip-hop today it's
to primarily in its money to white
audiences it's not a black people stop
listening to hip-hop it's just that the
the world of music has changed in such a
way that economic forces may dominate
and similarly in this country a lot of
people don't go to hear jazz but in
Europe jazz sells out a stadium and so
but the main thing when we think about
cultural production artistic production
whatever it may be or even when I think
about the way I do philosophy I don't do
philosophy simply saying only one group
of people did philosophy nobody else
thinks I look wherever people think the
ideas and I participate in them that's
why when I teach for instance this
semester I'm teaching ideas that include
people in addition to people like Simone
de Beauvoir Simone vay a woman by name
of Nathalie at okay I'm also teaching
people like Sri Aurobindo Aliya Ali
Shariati you know nishitani many others
because you see their elements that when
people participate in common problems
you know that point I made about
students that each of you as you learn
the problems you may have different
things you can bring to it then you can
communicate with others at how to
address the problems differently and so
if we come to that understanding then
one of the things in preen at the
forefront freedom and humanity as a
statement in black music that is the
reason it speaks to the globe it's not
that black music must be intrinsically
better because there are some crappy
black music out there there really are
every kind of music form is just like
European classical music
you know there's some things are just
crap but there's some things that are so
absolutely beautiful and not just beauty
there are some things or so they just
speak to us with their cleverness their
joy their aspirations that we connect to
it and subsequent generations listen to
it and as that is there not just with
music but I think it's an allegory for
also the academy for ideas for society
that if we get rid of this mine versus
yours mentality and think what and think
about what we actually are which is a
species dealing with us then we can
actually get rid of a lot of crap and
actually start learning more from each
other and I'm talking about black music
but as we know we could start getting
into many other forms of music I go just
to just to give you an idea just easy
this is and I'll stop with it this would
bug you out but straightforward if you
go to Jamaica and you ask most Jamaicans
where is the source of the reggae beat
they will say Africa I'm a brother right
it's from Africa the reggae beats not
from Africa
Jamaicans made it the jamaican beat
however when I went to Chandigarh when I
went because I go all over Africa I'm
not finding any reggae beat except for
Africans who are saying they're playing
reggae you said I mean so where did this
beat come from and as I'm walking around
I ended up in Punjab and when I was in
Punjab I discovered the reggae beat the
beat is from Punjab and it's a Punjabi
beat and how do you know
well if here's how it sounds if you're
in Chandigarh or some other area to
enjoy
right now slow it up
that's the reggae beat dancehall does a
different kind it does another Punjabi
beat that's the dancer right but here's
the point it doesn't make it less black
or less reggae because what they brought
to it is the part that communicates it
across the globe and that's something
that we should keep in mind when we
think about it deal with the injustice
of the misrepresentation of culture but
encourage the co participation in what
human beings share thank you
