hi guys how are you doing
have we resolved the tech issues yes oh
good do we I can hear me okay
I can hear me we are good I am so
excited to not be interviewing someone
tonight and to not be moderating a
conversation tonight here welcome I'm
just here for the party
so she as we did interview someone
earlier today we just have to tell you
this is not a part of the program
Stephanie who did we interview today
we interviewed Clive Owen who plays
acidic Jew in an upcoming movie called
the song of names and it's really hard
to interview Clive Owen in person we'll
let you ask a question at some point um
it's really hard to interview Clive Owen
in person because he is so unbelievably
beautiful and like the Sun was hitting
his eyes and I was like are his eyes two
different colours I don't even know what
we talked about I think we should have
sent that picture of him to Judi so
she's included in her amazing guys
sometimes sometimes you see movie stars
and then you see them in real life like
I get why they sort of made you
attractive and editing but you walk into
a room and this man wearing like a linen
shirt just like looks at you and you
know my wife is here and I hope she's
not offended but if he said you know
come away with me I would have
considered it it's a ridiculously
good-looking man yeah I feel like
everything's just like different now you
were as quiet during this interview as
I've ever seen you you're like so caught
was like hot in the room and they were
like the beads of sweat on his forehead
and I was like he's on TV coming soon to
an unorthodox podcast is for a movie in
which he plays a civic man who spends
like half of the movie sort of like
grumbling and groping and like looking
at his beard the whole time so well I'm
glad you guys have both had such a
wonderful day I myself am currently
cutting class so you know where my
priorities stand um so I asked this
before but I just want to know how many
of you listened to unorthodox so really
most of you but for those of you who
don't would you to give us the backstory
how did the podcast start what's led you
here high money
this the first thing is for those of you
who might not know what a podcast is
it's basically radio on the Internet
it's on-demand audio that you can listen
to at any point and before the night is
over you will all have been subscribed
to our podcast because we will have you
take out your phones and we will show
you how to subscribe that is sort of our
ulterior motive in being hear about so
we Leah and I work at tablet magazine
and a colleague of ours Marc Oppenheimer
about four years ago came up to us and
said you know everyone's doing podcasts
they were this like really big deal I
think something big big is coming in the
podcast arena and so he said you know I
think we should make a podcast we have
these weekly story meetings and we
talked about all sorts of things the
news culture funny things serious things
and he said you know I think other Jews
might be having these same conversations
or at least they might want to listen to
them and it was it was Friday at like
3:30 p.m. so just before Shabbos and now
it's on the phones like uh-huh uh-huh
oh yeah no that's a that's a great idea
Marc everyone would want to listen to a
Jew of the week and a Gentile of the
week what a terrific idea oh yeah yeah
no totally I'm totally into it I hang up
the phone and I definitely how do we get
out of this like what a dumb idea of it
like he's kind of our friend and we have
to work with him and don't want to hurt
his little feelings I'm not the worst
one mark is right you know it's still
four years later with something when I
have to admit but I think his insight
was absolutely correct you know because
our kind of misunderstanding
was that no one cares that this kind of
a station would not interest anyone
which is why if you go back and listen
to episode uno which I do not recommend
having done it myself
it's silly you know it's us talking
about we talk about Adam said there's
something Andy Samberg had what it takes
to be the next Adam Sandler just like
the really cunning separate also the
legal battle between JD and J swipe one
was suing the other over who had the
trademark to the Jay I think we all do
collectively I will say but then one
ended up
acquiring the other one they bought it
so I think like everything it was
happily ever after for them so the idea
really was that at least my plan was
that we'll do three months of this and
then I'll take mark out for coffee and
I'll say listen buddy I love you but you
know we tried your way it was a disaster
can we please not do this ever again
but then something kind of amazing
started happening which is not really
did people listen but people seem to be
engaged in trying to make this a better
show and trying to direct us into the
places that we really very quickly
realized we needed to get to which is an
exploration of all these amazing ways in
which American Jewish life is lived
right now which is so much more
incredibly diverse or frankly than our
own this is our favorite word and I
think our favorite entry in the book our
own little Ashkan normative sensibility
dinner do you know Ashkan normative it's
the the feeling that all of Jewish life
revolves around kind of Ashkenazi
cultures and traditions and so we really
opened like Google and kreplach and all
like the the beige K words which
actually is not the case there are Jews
from all sorts of places and so I was
gonna apologize for interrupting you but
I don't know why I would apologize for
that but basically right now well you
know as interrupting has its own story
it's a really important part of Jewish
culture but you know something that we
heard from listeners with they pushed us
to reflect their diversity they pushed
us to reflect the fact that Jewish life
in 20 whatever year this was at the time
looks different than it did a century
ago a half a century ago a generation
ago there were so many interesting ways
in which Jewish life was being lived you
know there was like modern Yiddish
theater there were farms that were
incorporating Jewish agricultural
practices there was all sort of all
sorts of interesting ways in which
people were exploring and living their
Jewish lives and they said we want to
see more of that and so the the biggest
thing we we did in response was and one
of our favorite things is our conversion
episode so each year around Shavuos
which I say the Austrian or motiv way
because that's how
Pal says it sounds way cooler than
shovel Oh shuffleboard is hard for me
because you have to go hard on the AH
chavo like you you have to know going in
but that's where you're emphasizing and
chievous rhymes with st. Louis as a
famous song once but I'm glad you're
repping st. Louis so basically you know
yes we'll be there December 19th
save the date so basically what we
started doing was you know expanding how
he how we looked at Jewish life for one
Sukkot episode we did a show dedicated
to Jews and farming or actually went to
Petaluma California to investigate this
for this sort of like now defunct
Yiddish socialist chicken farming utopia
where everyone actually fought so much
that it kind of doesn't exist anymore
but it was beautiful so basically you
know it was a shocker to me that the
Yiddish socialist utopian chicken farm I
mean it was a lot of drama but you know
what we realized really quickly was that
people actually did want to hear these
conversations so Leo and I were wrong it
happens rarely but you know occasionally
and that people wanted deeper
conversations they didn't want just
jokes and like lightness which we still
give for them on occasion but they
wanted us to be probing the real issues
that are facing Jews today I want to
talk about some of those successes and
some of the surprises that have come
along but before we do that are there
any places where you felt maybe you took
a wrong turn anything you would have
done differently if you were starting
all over again that is a good question
you were a good moderator thanks I'm not
surprised at all only there's a podcast
where you could you know ask people you
know there's these three hosts that keep
doing all the talking don't let me come
on and share my own box
could you imagine by the way like doing
production meetings with us you can't
get a word in edgewise so sorry
but things we could have done
differently that's a good question I
think a first step um I said this on the
air so I feel I feel happy to do it so
in the very beginning about probably I
don't know 9 or 10 episodes in we we had
a person on
from a certain political organization
that does not reflect my own views and
if you listen to the show you know my
own views and if you don't I'm a big
dude with a beard who looks kind of
angry so now you know my views and so
the Socialists right chicken farmer
utopian and so this person from this
really hardcore left-wing organization
and I'm not talking like you know
middle-of-the-road blustering I'm
talking all the way like past the last
exit on the highway left organization
comes on the show and I'm giddy cuz in
my mind I'm gonna do like some kind of
Sean Hannity meets Rachel Maddow meets
you know Walter Cronkite kind of like I
will I will sort of ask all these
questions and I would just blow out of
the water with my kind of you know
combat style and and I asked all these
questions and then I listened to the
show and I sounded like such an asshole
like why would you have a person on your
show and treat them so poorly even if
you don't agree with them and so I think
it took a very long time but I don't
know how many of you listen to an
episode that we did three weeks ago or
two weeks ago in which again Mark being
right but Mark said you know what we
need to kind of atone for that we need
to have a conversation in which you try
to kind of mirror how to have a
conversation with someone you don't
agree with so we invited Jay Michaelson
on who is a rabbi and scholar and you
know this really really really smart
writer who agrees with me and precisely
this much and we talked for two hours
and when the interview was all over I I
looked at Stephanie and Joshua were in
the room too and I said I think we need
to run this completely unedited because
I think what we have just done is
actually finally kind of crack the code
of how to have a respectful conversation
with someone who thinks the opposite of
you without wanting to kill them without
wanting to kind of swat at them but also
without pandering to them to have
actually you know linger and respect the
disagreements which really is what
community is all about I mean the
definition of community as far as I'm
concerned is like being stuck with
people you want to kill but
because they're your brothers and
sisters and so I think we learned how to
do it but it took four years I have no
regrets and I've done nothing wrong
obviously not spoken enough in the
beginning but that's true that's true
you made up I definitely didn't talk at
the beginning of the show because I had
these two older co-hosts they had both
written books they seemed really smart
and I was like I'm 20 whatever I must
not know as much as they did it turns
out I was I was wrong I they don't
actually know that much myself and more
about them but you know it took about I
would say a year for me to get to a
place where I was speaking as much as
they were and now the the it's had an
amazing effect on my life which is that
I'm much more assertive I'm in my
professional and some people personally
but you know there are high Benko and
there are ways in which I be I've
learned a lot of it's a professional
development right but it's on the air
for people to listen to and you know
after a lot there pretty much every live
show a young woman comes up to me and
says think you know I'm so happy when I
hear you stand up to those guys I'm so
happy that you sort of speak your mind
and you push back on them if they're
saying something that they might not
realize is a little bit whatever and so
to me that actually is quite meaningful
if I'm hopefully modeling something that
someone else hears and it's like oh
maybe I should do that more maybe at
work I should speak up more absolutely I
know that whenever I have to make a
decision I say what would Stephanie do
and it's not letting me wrong yet well
the answer tonight is blue mascara and I
feel very strong that is our matching
velvet shirt you boast about young women
coming up to you after lushes but in our
DC live show a person comes up to me
unbelievable this is one of the clients
making her and gives me a jar with
liquid in it and I asked what's that and
he's like it's moonshine I made it and I
say oh thanks and he says but don't take
it on a train or nothing because it's
flammable I feel like you know me you
really really know me I get a lot of cat
toys which I appreciate on the road
we hear people call into our listener
lines send us emails come up to us at
events like this and tell us what an
impact the three of you have had on
their lives really four major decisions
the amount of people who have converted
to Judaism after listening to the show
or who have decided to become part of
their Jewish community have decided to
adopt some sort of meaningful Jewish
practice what is the magic sauce how
have you three managed to reach these
the Pew report nuns those who who don't
want to associate with Jewish life as a
Jewish professional I'd really like to
know what what is the magic said none so
I was like the pure part nuns were you
talking about Judi there's so here's
kind of like my way into this answer so
when we started the show we noticed
after a while that a bunch of our
listeners and right now I'll put the
number at about a quarter right are Jews
by choice and the first time someone
wrote a letter saying I am converting to
Judaism I think it was either me or
Stephanie someone said on the air kind
of like without thinking about it
welcome home which to me sounded like
the most natural normal human response
you could offer to a person who has made
that significant choice and then we
started getting all these letters saying
you have no idea how much that meant to
us because we don't hear it outside and
I said really not everyone is that and
and what we realized and this is a
little bit of a bittersweet recognition
really I think that the success of this
podcast is is really delightful to me
but in many ways it also speaks of the
challenges I don't want to say the
failures of the organized Jewish
community because the fact that all
these institutions that for the most
part were erected a hundred some years
ago have failed to adapt to the needs of
an ever-growing ever
changing ever diverse community speaks
volumes and I think if you ask what the
secret sauce is I actually think it's
very very very simple I think the secret
sauce is joy and it's pride you know
it's the fact that none of us really
could think about anything else in our
lives that were more proud or excited or
thrilled to explore and embody than
being Jewish and I think in so many
environments if you go to today the
first thing you encounter is problems
like we need to talk about continuity we
need to talk about intermarriage when
you talk about Israel and Palestine some
guys slow down like there's pickles and
you know Torah and awesomeness all
around you there are a million there are
a thousand entries in this book there
are thousand paths into being Jewish
let's let's rejoice in them first before
we get to the problem I think your next
book is bagels Torah and awesomeness yes
it's my Instagram that is I mean it sort
of goes back to what we were saying
before which is that we we sort of took
this on on a bit of a lark thinking that
it would be something fun for people to
listen to what has actually happened and
you know there are a variety of reasons
why I think the three of us is some of
it but I agree with Leo I think a lot of
it is that people aren't finding this
elsewhere but the fact that this is
actually you know the one Jewish thing
people do they write and they say you
know I don't even go to synagogue on the
High Holidays or I have no Jewish
community where I live but I listen to
your podcast every week I put my ear pod
to zin and I turn this on and I'm
connected I'm transported to a place or
people you know people who leave New
York or like I feel like I'm back in New
York but you know that because you
interrupt each other all the time by the
way I went to the doctor the other day
and she said oh where he from are you
from New York and I was like yeah Allen
island and she's like I could tell
because you talk really fast I once went
to I was in Paris and I was not wearing
you know a snood and I was wearing jeans
and a leather jacket and I go over to
the concierge and I said I want to go to
this place in this place in this place
can I can I walk there or do I need to
take the metro and he goes oh well
you're in New Yorker so you can walk
anywhere I was like okay you can say I
was near her great and then I go and
we're looking for somewhere to eat me he
goes all the kosher restaurants
Wow it is amazing it also adds you know
a bit of a responsibility for us right
like if we are people's one Avenue into
Judaism that means we can't mess it up
right like obviously we messed things up
all the time we get things wrong and we
get corrected but there is a sense of
mission to what we're doing that I don't
think we had at the beginning we kind of
thought it would just be fun and in
light and it's actually made us have to
rise to the challenge right like if all
you are listening to is us then we want
to be we want to be providing something
that's important to you I want it to be
meaningful to you and also we never want
this to be the last stop because as as
great as a show will ever get it will
never replace you know a real kind of
engagement and I think the last year has
really made this very evident you know
we were we were stunned like I think
everyone in this room waking up one
Saturday morning a year and a couple of
days ago and learning about the first
mass shooting in a synagogue in American
history we got in my car and and drove
down the very next morning simply
because we didn't know what else to do
I'm from Israel where we have a protocol
what to do in case of these attacks no
one knows what to do in Pittsburgh and
so we went down there and we recorded an
episode which I do recommend listening
to because it just basically captures
voices of the community in that moment
but reflecting on that on that day and
reflecting on the year that we've had
and in the ways so many of us feel like
things changed right like like
anti-semitism got just a little bit more
pronounced like fear just got a little
bit more real I think there's only one
way to go about to go about it wrongly
the way is to kind of let anti-semitism
define you if you spend all of your
emotional mental energy kind of you know
grappling with and obsessing over the
fear and the hurt then then they win
right and here's how you do it right you
do it right by engaging with anything
Jewish and we really don't care I mean
we're so different the three of us we
really don't care if it's studying
Talmud
or if it's reading out known or if it's
buying a great cookbook like the hundred
great Jewish foods that we put out and
and engaging with that or learning
Hebrew anything that brings you closer
to this amazing tradition anything that
lets you reclaim a corner of it and find
some joy and meaning is what you should
but the interesting thing that happened
I would say within the past I mean it's
the past few years but more specifically
post Pittsburgh is that people you know
we had been hearing from people who felt
you know I'm not Jewish enough I don't
know every single thing there is to know
I don't necessarily you know want to go
to Shabbat but they'll write in and say
I mean I don't want to go to synagogue
right but I want to do something for
Shabbat so they'll write in and say you
know how do I do that how do I figure
out how I want to live my life and and
the questions we were getting we were
realizing people actually didn't have a
place to ask those questions they were
being posed in our Facebook group they
were coming into our inbox and we're
thinking if were the people that they're
that these these listeners are coming to
we need to be a better resource and so
that sort of is where I'm assuming
there's no more picture with us but like
that is where the idea of the book came
in because all the sudden people who
were already feeling insecure about
their own Jewish their own Jewishness
suddenly felt insecure more broadly
about what it means to be Jewish in
America and now that there was an actual
threat in some ways it this double
whammy was really really I think
profoundly felt by a lot of people so we
were like okay how do we sort of give
people something that will make them
feel well that can help with the first
part right like there's not much we can
do about the second but how can we make
people feel more secure in in what they
know about Judaism and allow them these
these entry points to to learn a little
more without feeling like they're gonna
be judged or they're gonna sing the
wrong melody or they're not gonna know
the words or something like that and
because there's no money on the internet
we chose to go with print the true
origin story so let's talk about this
gorgeous book right here the newish
Jewish encyclopedia bless you bless you
I I imagine that writing a tome like
this involves thousands of decisions and
and the three of you as you said are
very different people can you talk about
the process of writing this book what
made it what didn't and what you were
hoping people would get out of it
sort of by audience so let's 70 talk
about what people are getting out of it
I'll talk a little bit out the process
cuz it was like one of the greatest
sources of joy of my life because it
book like this is a never ending
argument which is what we do when the
mics are often no one's listening like
that's a conversation so the first kind
of major decision to have was criteria
right what makes the cut what's in and
what's out and when you think that
you're writing the first Jewish
encyclopedia in 40 odd years the last
known attempt was the Jewish catalog
she's an amazing amazing book but a lot
has changed since we kind of thought
okay well for example Stephanie really
wanted to include broad city a seminal
television show but but here was the
argument so look you know Joan Rivers is
going in this book you know Barbara
Streisand is going in this book you know
mark and I like Sid Caesar and you know
that like the religious stuff is gonna
be there but my argument was to make it
a little bit more contemporary so that
this book does not feel like nothing has
changed and since since the 1980s but
there was a debate about is broad City
going to be important in five years so
what we actually did was so we have a
lot of creative solves for this so the
entry is Alana and Abby so a lot of lana
clays are Abbi Jacobson and so the idea
is that these are actually two really
important Jewish female comedians today
and what they're doing is not
groundbreaking necessarily but right now
super visible and important um and then
there was a other layer of conversation
that was actually way more difficult
which is how do you handle the kind of
really big questions that you know
people are going to read with a
fine-tooth comb for example Zionism so I
took the first step of design as a
mentor II and again as a gentleman of
certain convictions it took three and a
half minutes
and I was very pleased with myself then
I put it put it aside and read it two
seconds later and realized that anyone
who doesn't agree with me completely is
going to look at this and and feel like
it was you know it was like emailed by
PB Netanyahu and they want nothing today
you know he's having a great day yeah
and and so and so we wrote it and then
rewrote it and then wrote it again a
third and fourth time to get to the
point in which we felt it was both
factually accurate historically true
emotionally and intellectually
irrelevant but also contain multitudes
and let enough people grapple with it
because we really we really understood
that every single one of these entries
was an invitation to an argument which
as far as we're concerned you know on
the heels of that other Jewish book that
you should read the Talmud is kind of
the way to do it and then finally was
the fact that we realized very very
early on that we had to grapple with the
fact that we are going to miss
incredibly big and incredibly
embarrassing people and entries in this
book and that this book is gonna be
published and then someone's be like I
can't believe you didn't include
so-and-so it's probably because you hate
insert name of you know racial ethnic
minority group here and and we kind of
welcomed it with with with love because
we realized that's kind of how culture
ought to work right we are going to
neglect something someone is going to
say hey what about that person we're
gonna say oh of course that's a great
opportunity to talk about X Y Z and and
that's how the cycle operates and the
interesting thing I think Zionism is
actually a somewhat specific extreme
example but you know a lot of people
don't know what Zionism is a lot of
people might think it's a bad word that
you shouldn't say and you hear it on the
Internet
it actually is important to say like
Zionism is the belief in the Jewish
right to self-determination in the
homeland you know you have to say that
because a lot of people actually don't
know that and so we wanted to not I
don't care what people think I don't
care what you come what you what
political points feelings you come away
with but you should actually know what
something like that means and and learn
a little bit about it and then decide
what you think and so you know so many
people in the past
year have said to me can you explain BDS
to me cuz people are talking about it I
have no idea I don't know what to read I
don't know what to think and I don't
know how to engage in an argument
because honestly I don't really care
right like I don't regularly want to
talk about Israel and so now people do
feel like they have to have the the
talking points and so it does feel like
it's important to define some you know
like there's an entry on the Green Line
I mean there's also fun and none is real
stuff in this book but there was a level
of somewhat basic educational value we
wanted to provide with this
are there any entries where you take an
unequivocal stance this is the worst
thing or the very best thing well I will
say that the entry for foreskin just
reads how would we know which feels
pretty and Livan unequivocal my team my
first time that ever spoke to you guys
on stage if you recall when you called
me about circumcision you had just come
this is before you worked with us you
had just come it was your first outing
after you had had your son Roey whose
birthday is not only a sorry missing
class she's missing her son's birthday
so that is her love you did she it's
it's in a contract though so don't worry
about it that's why you pay me the big
bucks you guys have been on a whirlwind
tour between live shows and and book
tours you've been all around the country
last night you were in Fran Drescher
Pennsylvania
Lea Alice as our listeners know you're
not from this country and most of your
experiences I'm not from this country
what have you learned about Jewish life
outside of New York what can we learn
about Jewish life outside of New York so
when I say the thing I'm about to say
elsewhere
Stephanie accuses me of pandering so I'm
gonna say it here so that people know
that it's real I'm gonna say the Jewish
life happens outside New York I'm sorry
you heard me proof we have we have Russ
& Daughters we have so many choices we
have we have so many riches here we have
so many choices we have so many
resources that I feel here so often some
of us have gotten really kind of blase
about it it's like Oh
of course everything is available it's
at the tip of our hands Judaism is
something that we you know just happens
to us it happens almost by osmosis and
then you travel with this kind of
completely Manhattan centric approach
that you're at the very center of life
and you visit these amazing communities
in Detroit and Denver and Cincinnati
where we were the sunday.and and you
know Houston and you see people doing
incredibly creative things and doing
them because they are there they're
together they're not a lot of them and
they're eager to make this thing work
and thrive and I really couldn't
couldn't be more inspired and I think
that any conversation about the future
of American Judaism has to begin by
acknowledging that this is not a New
York and LA bicoastal centric culture at
all anymore if it ever was yeah I mean
first of all it's really amazing to get
to meet all of these communities and to
go to an event where some people have
never listened to a podcast and some
people have listened to every single
episode of an orthodox and have there a
specific thoughts about all of us which
we'd love to hear I mean I think Leo is
right there is something really valuable
in in stepping out you know I grew up on
Long Island it felt like every single
person I know was Jewish so that osmosis
thing definitely is I grew up in Israel
it felt the same way but you know we had
a guest in Cincinnati and he said you
know he had been he was from LA and he's
like yeah I'll let you drive by six
synagogues on one side of the road and
six on the other side and there's the
there's all these different ones and
he's like and then I moved to Cincinnati
and I realized oh if I want to be part
of this Jewish community I need to get
involved and so he is now quite involved
he is on the board of his synagogue he's
he's doing all these things that he's on
he's a guest on a dish podcast um he is
doing all these things that he probably
wouldn't have to do if he was in LA and
and you noticed that when you go from
place to place like we've done shows in
LA and everyone's like of course you're
in LA like of course you've come to LA
and you know people show up and it's
nice but when you go to Cleveland people
are really happy to see you and and it
shows that actually it is nice to go to
those places and feel like it should
it's basically a way of showing that yes
we acknowledge that there that you exist
and that you are here we want to we want
you to be part of the conversation we're
gonna move soon to audience questions
but before we do that
you've been speaking about this book a
lot you guys wrote the book but I'm
curious to know how well you actually
know your own book so yes I'm gonna test
you I'm going to Lorde read some
excerpts nearly drunk enough for this
see if you can figure out where they're
from I'm just gonna scheme gal gadot for
every ng that's actually the first one
is it can also be chosen after three
gold star beers on birthright Israel oh
it could also be chosen after three gold
star beers on birthright Israel is it
alia Alia your Hebrew name my fun like
parlor trick is I can tell you who wrote
most of the entries but I can't identify
okay again okay we're over one most
important human ever to grow up in
Milwaukee go to my ear that's that's
part of her entry there's other stuff
about her too
that's it you're unequivocal she is the
best person and I said that actually
read that last night and someone was
like no and I was like oh who who's who
do you you know who would you nominate
he's like my wife okay in the next
edition we'll definitely scribble that
in the margins like season one of your
favorite TV show it starts with a big
bang and picks up the pace as it moves
along Genesis this is like your favorite
sequel number two right you did tourist
caller Stephanie actually read this book
I prepared I also like I liked this one
in particular it became known in some
circles as occupied Scarsdale oh oh oh
that's that what's it called why am i
biking efrat I do have family in the
front guys you like that those neesh I
enjoyed it I enjoyed it as someone from
Scarsdale and my last my last one that
I'm gonna ask you is just ask Elvis
Jackie Robinson I was going Shabbos goy
colon Powell Martin Scorsese and harry s
truman
Mike drop
great job we're gonna open it up to
audience questions I do want to take the
prerogative normally at the end of our
live shows we give people the
opportunity to wish a Mazel Tov which
you're welcome to do tonight but I did
want to wish a Mazel Tov my bubbie and
Zayde e are here and today is their 64th
wedding anniversary might remember Bobby
from the episode in which we hang up
Stephanie's mezuzah she was Arabic
Authority there was already we were
taking down to do that bras ad is the
rabbi but you know my Bubbe knows quite
well and really the question should be
about anything you want it could be
about the podcast at the book or or
about you know BB or rock or anything
else regular Scarsdale hi hello you tell
us your name of everyone and then tell
us the question so my name is Sabrina
McMillan the most Jewish name in the
entire world my fiancé and I are
aspiring podcasters were both mixed-race
and Jewish and we're starting a show
called not that white about mixed-race
experiences and I have actually I just
wanted to say quickly I've been studying
the way that you guys sort of do your
questions and answers to try and get a
sense of how to interview people because
we've never done this before something
I've been thinking about with the
podcast is how daunting it can be
knowing that there are so many other
podcasts that kind of cover the same
subject matter but obviously everyone's
different
before I was listening to unorthodox I
started listening to Judaism unbound and
I know that you guys are like the
biggest most popular Jewish podcast but
I was wondering if you guys have any
relationship with other Jewish podcasts
or what it's like as more and more
podcasts are coming onto the landscape
so I'm sorry before before we even
answer this I have to tell you a story
the other day we're sitting at a staff
meeting as we were about to go on
another podcast
Jesuitical which is the podcast that the
Jesuits listening to an orthodox kind of
with our permission in our boundless
love and encouragement produced to kind
of have a and you know their version of
an orthodox and seventies telling
everyone we're about to go on the show
and and talk to three very nice
catholics who by the way drink as they
record which is such an improvement over
what we do they don't interrupt each
other and they drink right and then
stephanie says i'm about to go on my
favorite podcast that's like your
favorite buckets is in your podcast
she's like don't interrupt each other i
think first of all I think the more
Jewish podcast there are the better I
think when we started there were not as
many like good not not throwing shade
there were just there weren't well
produced shows there were definitely a
lot of shows I mean tablets had box
tablet had a podcast for like ten years
before we started and tablet actually
also produces Israel story which Ira
Glass has called the Israeli This
American Life
which is an amazing show with stories
from Israel then we also have a third
podcast which is called parsha in
progress and I have an interview up
today on the show with ABI poker man who
hosts that so like the more the merrier
I think that also it's like rising tides
what is it lifts all podcasts so I'm
happy that there are other other pipe
Jewish podcast I really like the collor
podcast the branch oh I like the branch
yeah the branches Hadassah's podcasts
also stories from Israel I'll be
moderating event with the host of that
show Tina Brandt you call her Gina
branch did your craft
I think it's December 8th December 17th
the day before st. Louis if anyone's
around here at Hadassah headquarters but
anyway I think that it's great to have
more Jewish shows I also like is it
called call your mother Jordanna Horne
Gordon's call your mother I like that
it's a like a show about Parenthood I'm
not a mom but I enjoy it but so the
other advice I mean look I think I think
in this oversaturated space specificity
really helps right like we are a very
niche podcast we have a lot of listeners
because like we are so
targeted that actually you what you find
what you want and so I think that
whatever could make your show be a
little different because and the good
news is there are so many other podcasts
in that in that same arena because
people are interested in that right
there wouldn't be a lot of shows like
that if people weren't already
interested so you have you know that
there's an audience out there right the
more specific you are we find the more
universal the appeal of the show isn't
it and I think the key here really is to
be you know absolutely unabashedly
unafraid to just talk about the things
that you feel really passionate about
the only mistake really you could make
here is try to kind of see what other
people may want to do and kind of try to
like do that dance to hit targets that
you think are right you know our our
show very much reflects our passions the
passions of our listeners and and our
engagement with these traditions and our
endless curiosity and I think when we
sit down to talk to people we don't try
to produce like you know good sticky
kind of audio that'll be cool somebody
like there's an actual engagement here
I'll give you a like an example of what
I consider good radio and bad radio just
to upset and annoy and offend people
here but I wrote a profile not long ago
of Howard Stern and I contrast his
interview with Stephen Colbert with
Terry Gross his interview of Stephen
Colbert I am really sorry I absolutely
despise Terry Gross I think she's one of
the absolute worst interviewers there
are because she sits in her little booth
up behind the curtain in the Land of Oz
and she asked he's very clever questions
that make her guest like do all these
kind of dances Stephen walks into Howard
Stern's studio and Howard Stern's looks
at him and like a human being gives him
a hug and then starts talking about his
family and his brothers and growing up
and faith and thinks that got so real
and so emotional
we're not here to perform we're really
here to try and connect I will say
that's V like Howard may be the mostly L
take but Terry Gross is overrated
like why hugely over Terry Gross is the
bagel of Public Radio it's it's a
foodstuff it's a thing that just needs
to end already
next question hi I'm Amy Handelsman and
I've studied Talmud and
or with Leo it's a wonderful scholar so
my question is did people fight over the
entries like no I want to do Marjan or
whatever and how you chose who would
write what and I think there's a
consistency of tone and humor and you
guys are funny
so did one of you kind of do a humor
rewrite for the entries so that's a
great question so it's obviously the
three of us who edited and created the
book but we had about I would say 40
contributors and some of them are in
this room tonight and they we basically
said okay who is the person who can
write about movies and what are like the
five movies that that make it in or who
is our food expert and what are the five
foods that are gonna get their own entry
of course there's a whole page on deli
there's you know what entry on
appetizing but like what what foods make
it in and so those work but we sort of
outsource those decisions to people who
really knew what they were talking about
we had someone you know write about Jews
in sports we had someone write about
Jews and pop music you know we really
sort of tried to find experts in a lot
of different areas because the one that
we can't acknowledge that we don't know
everything we know like most of the
things to combine but no so so then it
was a question of you know who wants who
wants what entries we had a spreadsheet
a very insane Google Doc but all of
tablet staff had access to and they
could sort of pick what they wanted and
sometimes they would get assigned things
and I would say that I would say lleol
probably wrote about 70% of this book
mark wrote a lot of it too and I wrote
it and then we all edited it together so
so I think the the tone is different
from entry to entry right because some
entries are serious and historical or
religious and we're not gonna make fun
of meaning out Sarat we're gonna tell
you what it is because no one knows but
you know like we would sort of between
the three of us would sort of smooth
everything out and so also if we once it
was in layout if he turn to a page it
was like so insanely heavy we would try
and fix it a little bit maybe there's
something we would add maybe there's a
way we could spice it up a little and
again we wanted the humor to be do you
mind opening - my favorite oh yeah
that's what
you know we wanted the tone to be
humorous because we figured it was a
great way to engage but at the same time
we also wanted we wanted things that
would actually kind of make you think
and make interesting juxtapositions and
and kind of alert you to religious a
theological and historical things like
the following stop me if you've heard
this one before the ambitious and
narcissistic son of a rich man shocks
the world by somehow ascending to power
mainly by colluding with a large empire
but he's still a real estate guy at
heart so he spends most of his energy
building huge structures that are very
very fancy a lot of people are saying he
lives in exorbitantly flashy lifestyle
and is hated by pretty much everybody
we're talking of course about Herod the
puppet King the Romans installed in 40
BCE to govern Judea we owe in Masada the
port in Caesarea and most important the
Second Temple so we really kind of
wanted to find different ways into
topics that otherwise you may not really
care that much about there was a hot
heretic I'm Paula Nicola flown in from
London for your show today what on the
question of university tallinn
university ality what chance of you guys
coming over to london and doing a tour
of europe please we would love that it's
funny people are people assume that
places were not going or because we
don't want to go there someone sent me
an email that says I saw your tour
schedule what's we're in Atlanta what
are we chopped liver
[Music]
no no one it just no one invited us to
Atlanta so basically the question is the
answer is yes we would love to go to
Europe we'd love to go the exception of
course of one specific country but leo
has like this weird hatred for the
country of Belgium haven't listened to
the show go listen I don't understand it
but it's like the childhood capital
contractually obligated anyway so yeah
we would love to do that because again
we want to meet more of these
communities and I think the London
Jewish community is really interesting
and going through a lot and so we'd like
to be there we have had
chief Lord rabbi sacks so London has
come to us the world's second most
popular Jewish podcaster yeah although I
will say that if you're if you're
election go a certain way god forbid
food food food well we'll come to fight
man we're not just doing shows we're
doing like Krav Maga training sessions
and stuff like that yes hi I'm Judy
bankie
this question is not a trap but I'm
asking because I want to I'm trying to
see how intergenerational your
references are so I'm I'm very happy you
have a reference to to Barbra Streisand
encyclopedia or the newish do you have a
reference to Hedy Lamarr we have
obsessive with that particular topic
hold on I'm going to this page yeah oh
you should go to that page thank you
oh man I mean the HOA we love her out in
oh yeah there's a look here a massive
page look not only was this actress in
bombshell she invented Wi-Fi can we talk
about that she invented Wi-Fi and
gaagaa dote on page whatever it turns
out is actually playing Hedy Lamarr in a
miniseries that's coming to Showtime so
we are like on Team hedy lamarr badass
Jewish women yes hey thank you um first
of all I want to say thank you cuz I'm
one of the people that found your
podcast during the conversion process so
there's a lot that you can read in
studying to become a Jew but it's really
hard to kind of understand the jokes and
the cultural aspects so I want to say
thank you because I feel like I get it
as much as I can get it and I found that
through your podcast my question is for
Leo do you have any plans to do a Duff
yomi a podcast with the new cycle
starting in January oh my god
so first of all thank you
absolutely and and you should know
really that that nothing really nothing
makes me and I think I speak with
Stephanie and Mark to happier then than
hearing stories like this because I
can't imagine a greater honor than than
being part of of someone's journey and
and someone coming into this tradition
that I love so much so thank you for
this I don't think that we add that like
Jeunesse a qua like that ineffable
quality that you don't get in a class
yeah again by interrupting each other
constantly so so the dossier on me as
I'm I think most people here know it's a
tradition of don't feel me is so Stu an
aria from yeshiva university are here
after the show go see them they would
they would take care of that it's a
tradition that started a while back in
which people read one page of the Talmud
a day study it it takes approximately
seven and a half years to continue to
complete the whole cycle and the sium or
finishing of the whole cycle is
happening and Giants Stadium in in
January I think that New Year's Eve it
is it is my absolute dream to do a kind
of podcast slash column slash something
in which I do nothing in my life except
for read Talmud and talk about it I I do
it in my own personal life I really
don't know how physically I will sustain
this I don't know what my wife will
think about this there are a lot of
logistical questions here but but I
think that this is a great opportunity
even if you've never heard about this
thing before and you just hear it now
for the first time just know that the
cycle ends in January and it's a great
opportunity to just pick up any any copy
any version and just or a lot of
cautions amazing book about having done
this journey herself and just just read
and engage with it because it truly is
one of these books that terrifies people
because it has this weird you know
typographical order and oh it's you know
half of it is in Aramaic and there are
all this commentary and it looks strange
it's an astonishing book and such a
pleasure like a real joy to read so get
at it we are going to have an upcoming
segment on on document oh yes with Adam
Kirsch hi my name is Adam and I'm sorry
I have not actually heard the podcast
but I really look forward to it um so
about two years ago one of my best
friends called me up and she said guess
what I'm Jewish it turns out and and she
really wasn't before that turns out her
mother did 23andme she did DNA testing
and discovered that she was Jewish and
I'm wondering if this is a topic I mean
this is something that's that's
happening all the time now people
discovering that actually their their
genealogy is very different than they
thought it was so I'm wondering if this
is a topic that you have covered or
planned to cover we had actually thought
about doing a podcast called new jus
like nu su for all her questions that
she had about what it means now that
she's Jewish and one of the questions
was what about the jokes can I tell them
now and I said no anyway just wondering
for new and you in the it is something
you know we we did an interview with
Danny Shapiro who has an amazing book a
memoir called inheritance write it with
my book club
shout out to Kayla back there um you
know she basically takes a DNA test and
has this result that she's not expecting
and it really caught it essentially her
biological father wasn't who she thought
you he was or wasn't men who raised her
and it's a whole you know complex and
emotional story and then her biological
father isn't Jewish and she sort of goes
through what it means it's a really
fascinating book ultimately doesn't mean
anything right because she is she it's
Jewish she feels Jewish read the book
but yeah I mean it's something we're
talking about we actually all did DNA
tests at one point and we were gonna do
a show about it and then it sort of
never happened I think there is a really
interesting like DNA show to be done by
just a Jew mind it's a 97.1% Ashkenazi
Jew and we also met this amazing man who
walked with us in the in the salute to
Israel parade who had recently
discovered that he was Jewish so that
was aa manic he's from Poland and he
it's a sort of a similar thing happening
there where a lot of mean it's not
DNA test necessarily some of it is but
people who are discovering Jewish
heritage on their parents and
grandparents sort of hidden histories
and that it comes out later in life a
grandparent will tell you actually I was
Jewish or something like that so a lot
of young poles are having a similar
experience but there is a lot to be to
be done on that topic very frequently on
a sort of somewhat related note very
frequently we will run into trouble when
we you know we have on our show that you
have the weekend a gentle of the week
and welcome to gentle of the week and
we'll say our gentle of the week is
Swami Baba the spiritual leader of this
in this community and he would look at
us and say do you know I was born Irwin
Goldstein in the Bronx right like we
keep failing again and again the whole
world we know is Jewish or the guy who
was like you know halfway through the
interview he's like you know by the way
my mom's mom you know towards the end of
her life did tell me she's Jewish so I
think that makes me half and I was like
dude you are all in at this point hi my
name is Arielle I'm a fourth year
rabbinical student at Hebrew Union
College not too far from here thank you
for sort of entertaining me on my ride
to school every Thursday morning one of
the things that we talk about in school
all the time is how to speak to the Jews
as a whole when our world and our
country is so polarized and people are
so struggling with the political climate
in America and in Israel and you guys I
think do a great job of speaking to
speaking to the Jews in such a polarized
time and I'm just wondering what kind of
advice you might have for people like me
or anybody here who is looking to reach
the Jewish population and try and not
alienate Jews so yeah I I have strong
opinions in this surprise here's here's
here's a really simple solution
absolutely no one cares about your
politics you may think you're very
righteous you may think you're
completely correct but if the some of
things that you think Judaism
ought to care about could be seen on
MSNBC or Fox News you're doing it
completely wrong this is not a platform
for some kind of you know major
political action or get-out-the-vote or
awareness I'm not saying that these
things don't matter but I see so much of
organized Jewish life being completely
subverted by these huge political
currents and so much of the energy going
to provoke Judaism says X Y Z and
therefore we could support immigrants
well Judaism also says this and this and
that other and therefore we should
support Israel drop all of it none of it
matters all of it is toxic there are a
thousand and one other places where you
could go to do a thousand and one other
things to feed your soul and your
conscience politically socially
ethically Judaism offers us an
incredible array of very diverse paths
to figure out who we are what is our
relationship to God if any and and what
do we need to do in the very short time
that we got on this planet and I think
part of the thing that makes the show
special is because we really sidestep
and and and we do it not because it's
some sort of clever strategy but really
because emotionally we can't imagine
getting stuck in in in that mire right
we sidestep all these issues that so
many of us waste so much time talking
about and instead just wonder how we
could find new ways to connect with each
other to actually kind of take on
community again and and rejoice in who
cares if you think different things
politically than me who cares if you're
engaged in X Y Z as long as you're here
and excited to be with other Jews as
long as you're here and excited to learn
something new about Judaism and
something new about Jewish life that's a
great start just simple pride and joy I
don't think there's a better recipe I
will respectfully disagree with
something with most of what my respected
co-host said I mean I do think that I'm
actually quite moved by a lot of
particularly young Jews who are finding
other you know active social and
environmental elements to their Judaism
that to me is it's important because
they're not going to synagogue this
Sara Lee so we have to figure out you
know it's great that someone's doing
something right and people are finding
very modern and I mean not so in
somebody's not at all matter but new
expressions of their Judaism and I and I
support that I mean I think in terms of
talking to people we hopefully are not
condescending we are not patronizing we
are here talking about Judaism because
we care about it and I think it comes
through and I think we're talking to
anyone who is interested in you know the
past present and future of Jewish life
and so to me the idea is you're in
you've put this podcast on you are here
for this conversation you are invested
in some way even if you're not Jewish
even if your friend is Jewish your
spouse is Jewish your partner is Jewish
or you're just curious or you know you
went to Hebrew school but can't remember
a single thing but know that this is
important to you or you have a you want
to sort of supplement your Jewish
identity I mean I'm assuming I'm just
grateful that people are listening and I
think that so much of Jewish
institutional life is like being
lectured at from a podium by someone who
assumes that they know everything and
you know nothing so we don't assume we
know everything that's again why we had
all of these contributors be part of
this book because we are aware of the
ways in which we are not
you know infallible and again and the
fact that everything is a crisis the
crisis of anti-semitism the crisis of
intermarriage right you know it's one of
one of my favorites a rabbi toller's can
told us on the podcast a few weeks ago
but one of my favorite lubavitcher rebbe
stories by the way one of the points of
contention in this book was that I
wanted all seven the bhava cherub is
included and I only got two but I chose
wisely I think and she's the first and
the last which is kind of classic its
completion and so one of the favorite
stories is you know a guy goes to see
the Rebbe and says you know I just don't
know what to do my son he doesn't want
to be Jewish anymore and the rebus says
well tell me more it's like well I don't
understand why he would feel this way
because every morning I tell him you
know you have to pray showers because
it's so hard to be a Jew and in the
afternoon I tell them well you have to
do this and this because it's very
difficult to be a Jew and in the evening
I tell them you know you must do
so-and-so because it's really really
really hard to be a Jew the rep alyssum
like well I really wonder why he doesn't
want to be a Jew and I think the
or you could do to sort of connect to to
these energies the better and and really
that ought to be the source of our of
our effort because if continuity which
is this word that is battered around
means that everyone sort of you know
sulks along guiltily to shul simply
because they don't want to upset their
parents then frankly I don't care for it
like I think people should just go and
marry who everything you want and eat
whatever they want and not worry about
it we need to find a way to make them
really feel the passion and the joy and
the love and you know what often it
starts with a dumbest thing it starts
with like a cool song that you heard and
just as the soundscape of your youth it
starts with an image of your grandmother
lighting candles and just that warmth in
the joy that it brings you and then a
simple story from the Bible that gives
you like this piece of wisdom that's the
foundation so I think just just lay that
down and don't worry about all the
sophisticated stuff okay I'm told two
more questions and then we stick around
and katalk all night on hey my favorite
entry in the book is indigestion and
hosted my weddings obviously I'm not a
stranger to the podcast or the book I
love the book and it's so exhaustive and
fabulous but my question was you had
mentioned this before people are coming
up to you and saying you left out X Y &
Z so what if anything other than the
other loop off its revenues would what
has resonated you said oh yeah I wish we
had included that you know it's funny so
the first events we were doing the q and
A's were literally just people asking a
saying a name and ask and B saying yes
or no is it in the book but now the nice
thing is now people buy the book and
come to think of it and actually no but
I'm still happy to answer those
questions but you know one of the things
so that I've heard at two different
events so we have an entry we have like
a semi Semites entry so we have hinges
which are people who are both Indian and
Jewish we have pizza bagels who are
people who are this is a self-identified
thing like people who are half Jewish
half Italian and someone came up to me
and
this is not like that it up but
someone's like so do you have Jew bins
in there and I was like you know we
those are Jewish Cubans and that is a
very vibrant and distinct community and
so I said no juban czar not in there I
was like pizza bagels are and they were
like well I don't care the pizza bagels
are in there I want so so basically know
that to me is something that's like
that's a great example I mean it's
obviously not integral to the this I
mean that's not like the Mishnah
whatever that is just kidding that's
page 241 but you know there are things
that we there are sort of communities
that everyone deserves a mention but we
just best for the next version and I
just say our publisher is very keen on
the idea and told us from the beginning
like the idea that there would be
reprint I mean not reprints but like
updates is exciting to them so here's
one thing I want to do in the update
it's not so much an intermission but
it's an addition so the subtitle of this
book is from Abraham to Zabar's which by
the way what a pleasure not having to
explain that joke here because in
Cincinnati they're like what's that and
and here's that here's a dirty little
secret the last entry in the book is not
Zabar's
it's zyklon-b and we thought that
putting that on the cover it was kind of
a bad marketing move but I think now
we've come up with a solution I think
the new entry that will seal this book
also the last word of this book is the
Hitler just saying because I think the
gas use Bulova and also a terrible entry
to end a Jewish book
period yeah and so I think in the new
edition the last entry will be ZZ top
band that kind of looks like Hasidic
Jews just that we could have them all
right final question hi everyone my name
is Monica sass and I want to thank you
all because northa docks is the only
piece of media that everyone in my
family regularly consumes and enjoys and
also I want to echo a Mazel Tov from the
podcast last week I'm the proud sister
of rabbi Paula Rose all shout it out on
the podcast Oh everyone's proud of Adina
rifki Wow everywhere we go someone knows
rabbi paula rose
that's true I'm also I'm from Cleveland
my dad gave a shout out on the podcast
run so yes really yes and but I do also
have a question about the book on page
19 are we all actually related and with
the very thorough descriptions of how
all these people are related my friend
Jacob and I were wondering to what
extent that that's true and fact-checked
unreliable so this is really this goes
with the entry for Ashkenazi Jews
basically it's called are we actually
all related and AJ Jacobs who has been
on our show and who is sort of become an
amateur genealogist race rabbi he found
every member of his extended family in a
book called something it's all relative
and thank you and he he and his
brother-in-law this is fully fact I mean
the book is back jack this this is this
is they basically said give me like ten
funny people and find out how they're
related so he basically says Karl Marx
is so Baruch Spinoza is Karl Marx's
second cousin twice removed wife's
uncle's fourth cousin and you could
they've there's some database where you
can plug everyone in but actually Karl
Marx is Lauren because husband's
ex-wife's husband's aunts great great
uncle's fourth cousin once-removed also
on this page is foreigners and yes and
Maggie Gyllenhaal but here's the best
one she prepares his third wife no no
just trying out here
it's shimon peres a second cousin is
Lauren Bacall that's an actual thing
they are like very closely related so
that's your takeaway of the evening it's
not his third wife it's a second cousin
oh one more yeah I'm interested in the
history / background tablet magazine
I've always thought that it was very
politically conservative and quite from
Orthodox whatever can you tell me
something about the history yes so
tablet is where we work it is it's just
celebrated its 10th birthday last year
so it's been around a little bit you
know a lot for an internet publication
but it's I would say it's aggressively
heterodox in its mission that we will
publish something that
makes you mad one day no matter who you
are it's sort of what we do with the
idea being that Jewish discourse Jewish
writing should open your mind up to new
perspective so that is sort of the the
broad overarching thing we are we don't
have a political bent I would say each
piece stands for itself and no piece
represents the magazine that said people
will say you know there there are things
who that I mean on the same day someone
will have these like very funny very
different complaints about a story but
the idea is we publish everything I mean
not everything right but we publish a
variety across a good cross-section of
opinions I would say look so much I
agree completely with what Stephanie
says I think if you look at at our mass
head and read our stories regularly you
will indeed find stories that are
conservative you'll find stories that
are very liberal and they're bent you'll
find stories that are more kind of
rooted in religious observance some that
are not at all I think one of the
tragedies of this current era kind of
you know precipitated by the Internet is
the fact that we have gotten very used
to using the sort of like your political
ideological stance as a kind of you know
prism through which to look at
everything and we have all these echo
chambers that we could just go and
amplify our rage and our dislike and I
think tablet is in in every way really
old-fashioned in that it believes that a
great magazine like a great community
like a great dinner party is an
invitation for all sorts of people to
come and have conversations and some of
them are weird and some of them are
incredibly upsetting and some of them
are really reaffirmed but really the
only value that they all share is just
curiosity if you're interested in this
thing if you're interested in Jewish
life if again you don't want to make
Jewish life the handmaiden of a
particular ideological or religious
belief were the publication for you and
honestly I don't think there's any
greater cause right now in the world
than to make sure Judaism stays as open
and heterodox
thank you so much we're gonna have we're
gonna be selling books that have a book
signing Hanukkah is coming up so you can
buy more than one and thank you so much
for your here thank you thank you thank
you sorry but a dirt
