CHELSEA R. GRIMMER: All right.
Welcome to The Poetry Vlog.
We have our special
pop culture in Patrick.
PATRICK: We're back.
We're back.
CHELSEA R. GRIMMER: We're back.
We're doing Robyn's new
release, single, right?
PATRICK: Yep, yep.
CHELSEA R. GRIMMER: "Missing U."
PATRICK: The new
song, the new song.
"Missing U" came out just--
how long ago?
Like two weeks ago?
CHELSEA R. GRIMMER:
Something like that.
PATRICK: Two weeks ago.
CHELSEA R. GRIMMER: It was
one of those viral, like.
Internet releases
as well, right?
PATRICK: Yeah.
CHELSEA R. GRIMMER: Where it
was like the internet release
of it.
PATRICK: Yeah, because she
said-- it was a Friday.
And she said, don't worry, guys.
It's been eight years, but I'm
releasing a new song on Monday.
Turned out the new
song was actually
the seven minute
YouTube video, which
was just like a seven minute
preview for a five minute song.
Which is weird enough.
But then that Wednesday was
when the song actually came out.
It's called "Missing U."
CHELSEA R. GRIMMER: "Missing U"
PATRICK: We've been missing
her for the last 10 years.
It was in 2010 when she released
"Body Talk" part 1, 2, and 3.
And then the full length
album, "Body Talk,"
which was basically like a
greatest hits of the song
she already released in 2010.
CHELSEA R. GRIMMER:
So, like, example songs
that people might be
more familiar with.
PATRICK: So that's where,
"Call Your Girlfriend"--
CHELSEA R. GRIMMER: Which
is like the (SINGING)
call your girlfriend.
PATRICK: Yep, yep.
It's "Dancing On My Own."
CHELSEA R. GRIMMER: (SINGING)
I keep dancing on my-- yep.
PATRICK: Exactly, exactly.
She did "None of Dem"
with Royksopp from Norway.
She did that one
with Snoop Dogg.
CHELSEA R. GRIMMER:
I forgot about that.
PATRICK: Oh yeah, oh
yeah, that was OK.
CHELSEA R. GRIMMER: And she's
basically, like, you always
find yourself dancing.
PATRICK: Yeah.
So what's incredible about
Robyn is many things.
But one of the best
things about her
is there's always this sort
of, like, sadness and emptiness
to her music.
So dancing on my own is this
perfect example of that.
Because it is like, someone
told me you got a new friend
and I'm over here in the
corner dancing on my own.
CHELSEA R. GRIMMER:
(SINGING) I'm on the corner--
PATRICK: Yeah, yeah.
CHELSEA R. GRIMMER:
--watching you kiss her.
And then the cover
one is like, oh.
PATRICK: Exactly.
So her music already--
it has this kind of like--
at the bottom of
her music is always
like a loneliness and a despair.
But she's always
dancing through it.
So there's this kind of,
like, ecstasy through tragedy.
CHELSEA R. GRIMMER:
Yeah, and it's
not necessarily
good dancing, which
is sometimes the most
empowering part about it.
Like in her music
video at one point,
she, like, basically just like--
PATRICK: Oh yeah.
"Call Your Girlfriend" is
just her dancing on your own
in this, like.
Weird carpet of a coat.
But we're getting-- we're
not talking about "Call Your
Girlfriend."
We're talking--
CHELSEA R. GRIMMER:
All right, sorry.
Always the derailer.
PATRICK: We're talking
about "Missing U."
We're talking about the new one.
CHELSEA R. GRIMMER: Which,
or course, everyone was like,
oh my God, it's her
song to her fans.
Because, like, she hasn't been
here and she's been missing us.
But--
PATRICK: Yeah, so it's
called "Missing U."
She like, this is for my fans.
And when you first hear it,
you know, your impulse--
because it's a pop song, right?
It's like, oh, this
is about an ex-lover.
I'm missing you because
we've broken up.
And if that's what you need
it to be about, then awesome.
Have it be about that to you.
That's what's cool about pop.
It's like, it's
this total cipher.
You get to put yourself in
the song however you want.
So if it's about an
ex-lover to you, awesome.
But my theory for
Robyn is like, yeah,
maybe it's about her fans.
But a couple years ago
she released this EP
called "Love is Free" with
a group called La Bagatelle
Magique.
And one of the members of
this group, Christian Falk
was this dance music producer
who passed away really suddenly
just before the EP came out.
And so they toured
behind it a little bit
doing some of this music.
But she called it off.
She was like, this
is just too heavy.
I made this music with my
friend and now he's gone.
So it's hard to hear a
song like "Missing U"
and not hear that story
in the background as well.
So there is-- it's
all about emptiness.
It's all about
these empty spaces.
Whether that space was left
by Robyn herself in your life
because you've been missing
her for the last eight years.
Right, like, we survived, guys.
We made it 8 years
without any Robyn songs.
CHELSEA R. GRIMMER: I think
I posted a Golden Girls
meme and a Robyn meme, right?
And they were like
opposites, but they both fit.
PATRICK: Exactly, exactly.
So we survived it.
We were missing her.
She was perhaps missing
her friend who passed away.
Maybe you're missing the
guy that you had to leave
or that left you.
But it's all about this absence.
CHELSEA R. GRIMMER: Right.
And it's also a slightly
critical absence.
PATRICK: Hm, say more.
CHELSEA R. GRIMMER: I think.
Right?
Because like, there's this
empty space you left behind.
Now you're not here
with me, as you expect.
But then I keep digging
through our waste of time.
It's like, what was that
wasted time, exactly?
PATRICK: Yeah.
CHELSEA R. GRIMMER:
You know, I think
there's, like, a little
bit of potential shade
that actually is part of
why people read into it
as like potential ex-lover.
right?
Because it's like,
I keep digging
through our wasted time.
It's like, time
we wasted together
could be one reading, right?
In a good way.
Like, killing time is
like chilling, right?
Or it could be, like,
it was a waste of time
and I'm doing this,
like, autopsy--
is what we always call
it in our conversations--
of what is there, right?
And it's like, keep digging
through this memory,
but the picture is incomplete.
So no amount of digging
is actually producing it.
And you end up just missing
the person and that's it.
So I think there's a
little shade potentially.
PATRICK: Totally, totally.
CHELSEA R. GRIMMER: Like
it could be read that way.
PATRICK: And that's what's
so interesting, I think,
about this song.
CHELSEA R. GRIMMER:
That's what makes it good.
PATRICK: Yeah, and
she's shuffling
through her interpretation
of the relationship
as well, like her interpretation
of this person that she's
missing, that's shifting
and it's changing.
Because it's all about the gap.
It's all about the--
CHELSEA R. GRIMMER: I'm
totally dancing, sorry.
PATRICK: I know.
It's hard, it's hard.
So what I want to
talk about-- what
I want to talk about is I
want to talk about the song
itself is really simple.
It's built on two chords like a
lot of the best dance music is.
It just alternates
between these two chords
from beginning to
end, easy enough.
It has this-- the tempo is--
if you listen to
it on headphones,
you will find yourself
walking at this tempo.
CHELSEA R. GRIMMER: Yeah,
you kind of have to.
It's that like--
chu, chu, chu, chu.
PATRICK: It lines up
with your bodily rhythms
in this really intense way.
And you can't help it,
you are just stomping down
the street missing--
missing whoever you got to miss.
And the song has pretty simple
components that go into it.
There's this, like,
twinkling thing
that happens at the beginning.
CHELSEA R. GRIMMER: I love
that you call it twinkling.
PATRICK: I don't know how else--
CHELSEA R. GRIMMER: If
you haven't yet, pause us,
and I'll link down.
But listen to the
song first so you
know what we're talking
about when we start talking.
PATRICK: Because I think
this idea of twinkling
and shimmering is
really important to,
like, my reading on the poem.
Because like, I brought--
I brought books.
Like, we have things
to talk about today.
CHELSEA R. GRIMMER: Oh my gosh.
PATRICK: We have things.
CHELSEA R. GRIMMER: You
brought multiple Anne Carsons.
PATRICK: I brought two Anne
Carson's and a Cole Swensen.
Because I'm interested
in this empty space.
So the chorus is, there's this
empty space you left behind.
Now you're not here with me.
I keep digging through
our waste of time
but the picture's incomplete.
And then she gets to the chorus.
CHELSEA R. GRIMMER: (SINGING)
Cuz I'm missing you.
PATRICK: Yeah, yep.
So it's all about
the empty space.
CHELSEA R. GRIMMER: Right.
PATRICK: And the song is
built on these empty spaces.
CHELSEA R. GRIMMER: Right.
I follow the traces.
Slick washed up on the beach.
Finding clues in the
pockets and opening boxes.
But there's no, like, a
thing that's grabbed, right?
PATRICK: Yep.
So we're entering all
these empty spaces.
And the music itself occupies
a lot of empty spaces as well.
You go through the first
verse, baby, it's so real to me
now it's over.
You have her voice
pretty unaccompanied,
undoubled, just her singing.
But then you get to
that first chorus
where we get the empty
space you left behind
and we get two things
that are doubled.
So first, we get her
voice that's doubled.
She doubles herself.
CHELSEA R. GRIMMER: Her harmony.
PATRICK: She harmonizes herself.
And it's spread pretty far.
When you listen to
it on headphones,
you can actually really
hear her voice on the left.
CHELSEA R. GRIMMER:
It's like a shadow.
PATRICK: Yeah.
And then you hear her
harmony on the right.
And if you listen a
little bit closer,
you can hear the high hats.
You get that drumbeat
that shows up.
CHELSEA R. GRIMMER: Explain
to them what the high hat is.
PATRICK: So the high
hats that symbol,
it's like chi-ca-chi-ca-chi-ca.
That one.
So you hear it in the chorus.
And it's a very disco-y sound.
Like, you hear high hat in
a lot of disco like that.
But if you listen
really close, you're
hear two high hats going on.
You'll hear one in
your left that is live.
That is a real instrument,
a real drum set
being tapped on by drumsticks.
But then you'll hear one on your
right that is a drum machine.
And you can hear the difference.
Because one is like tinny
and sort of artificial.
And the other is very real.
CHELSEA R. GRIMMER:
Kind of like the harmony
versus Robyn's voice.
PATRICK: Exactly.
Exactly.
So this really simple
gesture of duplicating.
CHELSEA R. GRIMMER: And it's
mimicked in the music video.
Because the music video is
just the lyrics with this,
like, digitized representation.
And they're all
doubled a little bit.
It's like a shadow replicate.
PATRICK: Yeah,
they sort of like--
they sort of do this.
They kind of pull apart.
They sort of shatter
a little bit.
And the shattering--
OK, I'm excited.
CHELSEA R. GRIMMER: I know
where Anne Carson is coming in.
PATRICK: Yeah, yeah, I'm going
to try to stay on topic here
because I have a whole thing.
So anyway, we get to the chorus
and suddenly, like, these gaps,
these empty spaces
are enacted musically.
It's the empty space that
exists between her voice
and the harmony and
the empty space that
exists between the live
drum and the digitized drum.
Like, there's an
emptiness to this music.
And I think the minimal
elements that make it up,
whether it's that twinkling
sound or that do-do-do-do-do-do
or that really basic four on
the floor walking tempo drumbeat
that we have, this
song has a lot of gaps.
There's a lot of
emptiness to it.
And the moment the
real sort of like--
Oh and another moment of
emptiness in that chorus,
you get that synth line.
Do-do-do.
CHELSEA R. GRIMMER: Oh yeah.
PATRICK: The synth line
is the exact same melody
that you'll hear in the bridge
when she says this part of you,
this clock that stopped.
So you're hearing the vocal
melody without the vocals
before the vocals ever come in.
CHELSEA R. GRIMMER: Right.
So then the bridge
becomes an echo or a sort
of shadow of that, right?
PATRICK: Yeah.
So we get all these
sort of holes.
CHELSEA R. GRIMMER:
Which lyrically
is also supported by--
which I have a feeling
is where you're going, right?
Where's the glass line?
PATRICK: It's all
about the glass.
CHELSEA R. GRIMMER:
Yeah, the glass.
PATRICK: The glass
is the moment.
CHELSEA R. GRIMMER:
But you don't hear it
unless you're listening
for it because of where
it's placed in the song, right?
Right?
So we have like-- because
it's in one of the verses.
It's not in any of the refrains
or the bridge or anything.
It's like kind of buried.
I say buried.
It's probably wrong.
We're not going
to go there today.
PATRICK: No one else says that.
But It's buried,
wherever that is.
[LAUGHTER]
CHELSEA R. GRIMMER:
If it was buried,
it sounds like you're
having raspberries, right?
Like Sam Tax is like,
my new book is "Bury."
And I'm like, like
the strawberry?
I don't get it.
Anyway, point is, it says,
thinking how could it
have been.
I've turned all my
sorrow into glass.
It don't leave no shadow.
Which I think is
also just great.
That is the song and like a--
PATRICK: Yeah,
that's the moment.
And she does a similar
move in "Dancing On My Own"
where she'll have this
sort of like (SINGING) I'm
in the corner.
And then it's got that
like du-ka-du-ka-du-ka-du.
And it goes on for like--
CHELSEA R. GRIMMER:
And then it shatters.
PATRICK: --a bar and a half.
And then she lands
back on the chorus.
CHELSEA R. GRIMMER:
Which is exactly what
happens here, right?
PATRICK: Yeah, so
she stretches it out.
She's singing this second verse.
There's a slick washed up on
the beach, I follow the traces.
Follow clues in my
pockets and opening boxes
and-- and suddenly it
all starts building up.
And going places we
went, remember to forget.
Thinking how it could been.
And then she gets to the big
line, to the big showstopper.
I've turned all my
sorrow into glass.
It don't leave no shadow.
And then there's this huge gap.
There's this huge emptiness.
And then she goes-- (SINGING)
there's this empty space.
And you get the downbeat.
And so she leaves
this huge opening.
CHELSEA R. GRIMMER: You fall
into the empty space with her.
PATRICK: Yeah, yeah.
So you fall into
this empty space.
She's turning all her
sorrow into glass.
And I'm really
interested in this image
of turning sorrow into glass.
Because glass is both, you know,
it's there and it's not there.
It leaves no shadow, right?
CHELSEA R. GRIMMER: Well,
it does leave a shadow.
PATRICK: Yeah.
Yeah, it does.
It distorts the light.
Absolutely.
CHELSEA R. GRIMMER: It's
exactly the type of shadow
that she's recreating
with her own harmonizing
self in the background though.
It's like an ephemeral shadow.
It's not necessarily darker.
The shadow is actually
sometimes lighter,
based on how the light
is refracting through it.
PATRICK: Totally.
It's an emptiness.
It's a gap.
It's an aporia.
CHELSEA R. GRIMMER: So
explain what an aporia is.
PATRICK: An aporia is
like a hole in the story.
So it's where something--
How would you define it?
CHELSEA R. GRIMMER: Shit.
Sorry.
I was like, I shouldn't have
asked you, now I have to.
It's like a split.
Like there's a sort
of contradiction
that does not resolve itself and
it's sort of a breaking with.
Like, it's not just a hole.
It's like a rift hole.
Like, it sort of
splits something
open into not being
as resolvable as it
would have seemed to be.
PATRICK: Perfect.
Oh, I love that.
CHELSEA R. GRIMMER: We
were talking about it
while the camera was
down, you don't know this.
Because the first
poem in my manuscript
is the aporia of
the performative
cure for Lyme disease.
And it's about all
of these, like,
parts where language is supposed
to fix something but then it
can't.
So it keeps falling
into the aporia of it.
Like this sort of
irresolvable rift
that is difficult to place.
PATRICK: Yeah, yeah.
CHELSEA R. GRIMMER:
Sorry, so moving on.
PATRICK: I love that.
I love that.
Because it's more
than just a gap.
Like the gap--
CHELSEA R. GRIMMER: That's why
it's such a good word for what
you're describing.
Because it's not like a hole
in this story on its own.
There is something there.
It's the moment where, like,
something should be resolvable.
There should be something
there, but there's this, like,
splitting of the logic of it.
PATRICK: Yeah.
Yeah, splitting of
the logic of it.
Oh, so perfect.
I'm just going to
close this and go home.
So we do, we
encounter that, right?
We encountered this aporia.
Turn all my sorrow onto glass.
It don't leave no shadow.
There's so much that goes
unsaid in that image.
And so much that's
impossible about that image.
But even though it's
visually impossible,
it's acoustically very possible.
We've been hearing it
throughout the song with the way
she's doubling her
vocals, with the way she's
doubling the high hat.
This is--
CHELSEA R. GRIMMER: And the way
the images are of the lyrics.
The word becomes
two words, that's
like still doubling
it on itself.
PATRICK: Yeah, yeah.
And so what I want to do
is take a quick moment
to put Robyn's vocabulary
here in conversation
with some contemporary poets.
Because--
CHELSEA R. GRIMMER:
This is what I'm
excited about because I so know
where you're going with this.
PATRICK: Well, so
there are two poets.
There are two poets that
I want to talk about.
One is one is Anne Carson and
the other is Cole Swensen.
Both of whom are incredible,
incredible poets,
in that they trouble these
distinctions between poetry
and prose in a lot of ways.
if I have time, I'll read
from "The Glass Essay"
by Anne Carson.
But right now I'm going
to read the first section
of "The Beauty of
The Husband," which
she calls a fictional essay--
CHELSEA R. GRIMMER:
In 29 tangos.
PATRICK: In 29 tangos.
CHELSEA R. GRIMMER:
What is that?
PATRICK: So not only is
it a book of poetry--
CHELSEA R. GRIMMER:
I love how you
have like a legit
old school hard cover
version of this book.
PATRICK: Well, it's
from the library.
It's from the library.
CHELSEA R. GRIMMER:
It's special.
PATRICK: So not only
is it a book of poetry,
but they're poems that she calls
fictional essays in 29 tangos.
CHELSEA R. GRIMMER:
So what is it?
PATRICK: And there
are, of course,
31 sections to the book.
CHELSEA R. GRIMMER: Right.
PATRICK: But this is
the first section.
CHELSEA R. GRIMMER: She is
the queen of the aporias.
PATRICK: Yeah, yeah.
And she-- this book, just
like "The Glass Essay"
use glass as an image
and all of its baggage
to interrogate heartbreak.
Something that I
think a lot of poets
shy away from because
it is so cliche.
It's the stuff of
pop music, right?
And if pop musicians
are doing it, why
should the poets be doing it?
And I think what's so
amazing about Anne Carson is
she goes there.
And she says,
yeah, heartbreak is
like a terribly mundane
thing that we've all endured
and that we can all relate to.
And that it's really difficult
to speak about without cliche.
And she says, that's--
I'm still going there.
CHELSEA R. GRIMMER: Well, it's
hard to describe because it's
so hard to get to the
particular experience of it
when you have so many
representations around you
that you're told is
your experience of it.
So to be able to, like--
I was going to say burrow
in, but I'm like maybe I
say that wrong too.
PATRICK: Burrow.
[LAUGHTER]
CHELSEA R. GRIMMER:
To be able to dig
into the particular
experience of it
is actually another
example of what makes it
more relatable, and
meaningful, and impactful.
But it's harder to get to
because it's so overrepresented
that you're constantly told
that you should experience
through this thing, right?
So that's why she's so
amazing at doing it,
because it's so hard to do.
PATRICK: Yeah, yeah.
And she'll do it in
these-- in shapes and forms
that push against what poems
are supposed to look like.
I think that's why we find so
few poems about heartbreak.
It's because it's
difficult to write
a sonnet about your
boyfriend leaving you.
However, to write
an essay that is
a poem that's about glass and
about a thousand other things--
CHELSEA R. GRIMMER:
And is a tango.
PATRICK: And is a tango
about you and your husband--
CHELSEA R. GRIMMER: Tango
totally makes sense to me.
PATRICK: --you know,
your marriage failing,
then it can work.
CHELSEA R. GRIMMER: Can
you read a section for us?
PATRICK: So this is
the first section
of "The Beauty of The Husband."
It's one of the shortest.
CHELSEA R. GRIMMER: Can you
show them what it looks like?
PATRICK: it Looks like this.
Can you can see it?
CHELSEA R. GRIMMER:
Oh, the light is weird.
You guys get the idea.
You all.
PATRICK: So every
tango is prefaced
by an excerpt of Keats.
CHELSEA R. GRIMMER:
I forgot about that.
PATRICK: A lot of the Keats is
just taken from early drafts.
CHELSEA R. GRIMMER:
Can I read the Keats?
PATRICK: --unfinished poems.
Yeah.
CHELSEA R. GRIMMER:
All right, so this one
is from "The Jealousy
is a Fairy Tale," right?
More bad reasons
for her sorrow as
appears in the famed
memoirs of a thousand years,
written by Krafti Cant.
I think it's hilarious.
PATRICK: Yeah, I don't
know what to do with that.
CHELSEA R. GRIMMER: That's
exactly why it's hilarious.
You're like, Krafti Cant?
What?
PATRICK: Section one.
And here's the title
of section one.
I dedicate this book to Keats.
Or is it you who told
me Keats was a doctor?
On grounds that a
dedication has to be flawed
if a book is to remain free
and for his general surrender
to beauty.
CHELSEA R. GRIMMER:
That's the title.
PATRICK: That's the title.
That's the title.
And Keats, if you know nothing
about Keats, know one thing.
He wrote truth is beauty
and beauty, truth.
That is all you need to know.
So beauty, truth, truth,
beauty, that's Keats.
That's Keats in a nutshell.
So "The Beauty of The Husband"--
"The Beauty of
The Husband," it's
hard not to read now as
the truth of the husband.
And in a book that's
about trying to figure out
what actually happened.
Why the husband was
such a bad guy and what
he was doing with
these mistresses.
CHELSEA R. GRIMMER:
Which hearkens
back to the metaphor of the
glass and finding the shadow,
but there's no shadow.
This sort of, like,
doubling all the time
of trying to figure that out.
PATRICK: Yeah, so here's
the first section.
A wound gives off its
own light, surgeons say.
If all the lamps in the
house were turned out,
you could dress this wound
by what shines from it.
Fair reader, I offer
merely an analogy, a delay.
Quote, "use delay instead
of picture or painting.
A delay in glass, as you
would say a poem in prose
or a spittoon in
silver," end quote.
So Duchamp of the
Bride Stripped Bare
by Her Bachelor's, which broke
in eight pieces in transit
from the Brooklyn Museum
to Connecticut, 1912.
What is being delayed?
Marriage, I guess.
That swaying place as
my husband called it.
Look how the word shines.
So if you have the
time, Google image
search The Bride Stripped Bare
By Her Bachelor's Even or Large
Glass by Marcel Duchamp.
It's a great big
sculpture that was
made of glass that was
shipped to the museum in 1912
and it broke in transit.
And he said, now it's finished,
when he saw that it had broken.
CHELSEA R. GRIMMER: Really?
PATRICK: Yeah, yeah.
CHELSEA R. GRIMMER: Oh, sexism.
[LAUGHTER]
PATRICK: Like, that's
a whole other vlog
that I'm ill equipped
to talk about.
CHELSEA R. GRIMMER:
I'll take care of it.
PATRICK: This idea-- like
Duchamp building this thing out
of glass.
And it's less about what
you see, he's saying.
It's about the delay
in what you see.
It's about your vision sort
of slowing down as it's
moved through this glass.
It casts no shadow.
But it does sort of,
like, you see through it.
It doesn't stop your vision,
but it slows it down.
It delays it.
I think that's a
really interesting way
to think about glass.
An interesting way to
think about seeing.
But again, we have that sort of,
like, impossibility going on.
So glass for Anne Carson becomes
this sort of space of delay,
of impossibility, of
rupture, of aporia.
CHELSEA R. GRIMMER: But
also of extreme violence.
When you make a sculpture of
a person that's made of glass,
you're refusing to
see that person.
PATRICK: Well, have you seen it?
Have you seen this piece?
CHELSEA R. GRIMMER:
I've seen photos.
PATRICK: And so
it's interesting,
because you can't--
The Bride Stripped Bare By Her
Bachelor's Even or Large Glass
is a title that has very little
to do with what you're actually
seeing.
It's very abstract.
It's a bunch of panes of glass
laid on top of each other.
CHELSEA R. GRIMMER: But
I think that's what's
so violent about it, right?
It's like you're naming
this thing as a thing.
And then you make it
into an abstract thing
that you see through.
It's like the
person of the bride
gets so many times
removed into this,
like, abstract representation
that can't leave a full shadow,
is easily shattered.
You can't see her
or it, even if you
were to recognize the
outline of the glass.
Because it's an abstract piece.
Like, there's so many
layers of removal
of existing as, like, your own.
So I feel like that's part of
what makes it so entrancing
because it's gorgeous.
But like, almost like
a-- but also violent.
And it's sort of like
a refusal to see.
It's sort of then for--
it's like a way of--
it's like abstract art and
acting, the type of violence
described in the title.
PATRICK: Yeah, yeah.
And the fact that it breaks
and he says, now it's finished.
CHELSEA R. GRIMMER: Right.
Right.
PATRICK: And he's the
champ of the trace.
You know, like, Duchamp is
all about that trace that's
left behind and how
the trace is sort
a signifier for what was there.
CHELSEA R. GRIMMER: Which is
also in the lyrics to the song,
right?
Like there's the
part where she's
talking about the traces
on the beach, is it?
PATRICK: Yeah, there's a
slick washed up on the beach.
CHELSEA R. GRIMMER:
I follow the traces.
Finding clues in my
pocket, opening boxes.
So there's this,
like, re-enactment
of the piece, which is also
reenacted by Anne Carson.
So we're also seeing this
event of her missing,
of her experiencing it through
these different layers of glass
medium.
PATRICK: And so I
love the broken glass
is a trace of violence.
Because it signifies
violence in some sense.
You know that some sort
of violence was enacted.
But what happened?
How this glass broke,
you don't know.
CHELSEA R. GRIMMER: And
how did you trace it
when there's, like--
Yeah, that's a hard substance.
PATRICK: Well, it's like--
and my favorite kind
of trace that Duchamp
worked in is shadows.
Because he would
create these paintings
and sort of shine lights at them
with objects in front of it.
And so he would cast shadows
onto his works of art.
And so those shadows,
like the shattered glass,
is another kind of trace.
And it's difficult to not hear
glass shadow and glass shatter
when you hear a
song like Robyn's.
And so it's that trace,
it's that emptiness,
it's the aporia.
There is some sort of rupture.
Something has happened here.
We're never fully going
to get access to it.
We're never going to see it.
But she can slow down our
vision and slow down our hearing
so that we comprehend it.
CHELSEA R. GRIMMER:
And even, like,
the way the lyrics sort
of shimmer in the song
so that it's like
you're constantly
looking at a refraction.
PATRICK: Yeah.
CHELSEA R. GRIMMER: Right?
And it's, like, it calls--
it brings attention
to how ephemeral
or temporary basically
and fleeting and difficult
to grasp these sort of
memories are, for me at least.
Because I was like,
oh, it's like when
you're looking at the shadow of
glass, which is sometimes also
brighter than the glass, right?
Depending on how the
light moves through it.
You are so aware that it's
so dependent on how light
is hitting in that moment
and how it's in relation
to where you're standing.
So you give so many
interpretations
of this song, so many
interpretations to Duchamp's
work because it's a constant
reminder of position.
Right and how it influences your
ability to perceive it at all.
PATRICK: Yeah, and
what kind of glass
are we talking about here?
Are we talking about windows?
Are we talking
about stained glass?
Are we talking about
glass figurines?
CHELSEA R. GRIMMER: Are we
talking about Derrida's trace?
I'm just kidding.
PATRICK: Yeah, yeah.
There's a lot.
So what I want to read,
because we're running here--
CHELSEA R. GRIMMER:
Yeah, yeah, we are.
PATRICK: Is this is a section
from a book called "The Glass
Age" by Cole Swensen.
This is not about heartbreak.
This is very much about glass,
like, in a literal sense.
She's interested in glass.
That's why it's so interesting.
But she writes a lot
about this painter,
a late 19th, early 20th
century French painter named
Pierre Bonnard.
And this is one
section that I'll read.
And this gets to an
issue of embodiment
that I think is important
to keep in mind.
Bonnard had a double
fixation, saturated color
and utter transparency.
Not so much opposites
as an imminent collision
of the present
until it's tangible.
Cracked open to
reveal at its center
a verb, a marrow of glass
at the heart of every wall.
Early windows were sometimes
made of bone scraped, shell,
alabaster skull.
Right?
Imagine, like, a window
made out of skulls
that have just been shaved
down to the point of being
transparent.
CHELSEA R. GRIMMER: Yeah.
PATRICK: Yeah.
CHELSEA R. GRIMMER: Yeah.
And gosh, now I have so many
things I want to say about that
and I'm sad that
we're low on time.
PATRICK: I know.
But I think that poem raises
way more questions than it
gives answers.
CHELSEA R. GRIMMER:
But I also think--
I'm going to be like
on my analysis now
of glass and the violence
and the genderness of it.
Like it's much more even
so to the point of this way
that you shave down
who the person is
until you see through it.
In the same way, if
we're going to make
Robyn's song about
a relationship,
you might shave down
the relationship.
And it's a sort of violence
in order to see through it
and try to capture it
and understand it, right?
PATRICK: Yeah.
CHELSEA R. GRIMMER: And on
that we just had therapy now,
we are so out of time.
PATRICK: All right,
so I don't think--
do you have any final comments?
Anything to say?
CHELSEA R. GRIMMER: Next
time can we talk about--
PATRICK: Next time we can talk
about Anne Carson's other book
about glass.
CHELSEA R. GRIMMER: And
Autobiography of Red.
PATRICK: OK, yeah.
Do we want to talk
about Anne Carson
or do we want to talk about
the new Arianna Grande.
CHELSEA R. GRIMMER: We'll
do the new Arianna Grande.
PATRICK: OK, I mean--
CHELSEA R. GRIMMER: But
shit, well eventually
get to Anne Carson in
my vlog, whether or not
it's in the pop culture section.
So we will let that go.
Arianna Grande, because
she's also, like--
Yeah, we've got to talk about--
You're right.
PATRICK: This new one--
CHELSEA R. GRIMMER: So next
is Arianna Grande, right?
PATRICK: This new
one is "Sweetener."
Yeah, the new album is called
"Sweetener" that came out.
CHELSEA R. GRIMMER: It's good.
PATRICK: Yeah, it's--
she's a sneaky one.
CHELSEA R. GRIMMER:
She's clever.
PATRICK: You don't
expect her to be clever.
CHELSEA R. GRIMMER:
She's brilliant.
PATRICK: Yeah,
because she seems so--
CHELSEA R. GRIMMER:
Well, maybe you don't.
PATRICK: I don't know.
To me, I didn't--
CHELSEA R. GRIMMER:
Explain that more, Patrick.
PATRICK: I don't know.
Her voice has never
struck me as unique.
Her music has never
struck me as unique.
She has always been just another
voice on the radio to me.
But then "No More
Tears Left To Cry"
came out and then "God
As a Woman" came out.
And then the entire album
"Sweetener" came out yesterday.
And it was just like, whoa.
CHELSEA R. GRIMMER:
I think she's
super fascinating actually.
Because I think she totally
knows how to play the, like,
this is how you see
me, so I'm going
to do this in a way that's
super, super clever.
But we'll talk
about her next time.
I have thoughts on her too.
PATRICK: All pop
is about pop music.
So she's going to be the
perfect sort of meta pop star.
CHELSEA R. GRIMMER: She is
actually, like, the perfect--
especially with her SNL skit.
Have you seen that?
PATRICK: No.
Tune in next week.
CHELSEA R. GRIMMER: We're going
to do Arianna Grande because it
is so good.
All right, so I'm
going to shorten--
I'm working I'm
shortening the sign off
so that we have less
time spent on it.
Basically if you follow any of
the links in the description
here or on the podcast
edition, you'll
find some variation
of contacting me.
Twitter, Instagram, my
site, YouTube, Facebook.
If you're just not
sure and you're only
listening to this you're
not going to actually bother
to listen, if you go
to ChelseaGrimmer.com,
you link to all of them.
There's even,
like, handy buttons
that I learned how to create.
I'm proud of it.
So maybe go there just to use
them so I can feel better--
PATRICK: Use the widgets.
CHELSEA R. GRIMMER:
--that I learned
how to make and use widgets,
which is powerful for me.
I'm just digitalizing
it up this summer.
All right, thank you very much.
Thank you, Patrick.
PATRICK: Thank you.
Always a pleasure.
CHELSEA R. GRIMMER: I
think we have to call this,
like, pop culture with Patrick.
PATRICK: OK.
CHELSEA R. GRIMMER: The
alliteration is so good.
Or Patrick and pop culture.
I'm going to let you name it.
But you have to include pop
culture or pop music in it.
PATRICK: OK, yeah.
CHELSEA R. GRIMMER: All right.
PATRICK: OK, we'll
come up with a name.
CHELSEA R. GRIMMER:
Next week, a name--
PATRICK: With a name
and with Ariana Grande.
CHELSEA R. GRIMMER:
--and Arianna Grande.
All right, thanks everyone.
Have a lovely day.
PATRICK: Bye.
CHELSEA R. GRIMMER: Bye.
