hurricane Maria had made landfall in
Puerto Rico early in the morning of
September 20th the trail of devastation
it left behind made it one of the worst
storms in US history but Maria did more
than just uproot houses and leave tens
of thousands homeless the category 4
storm ripped apart the social fabric of
the islands 3.4 million citizens and
forced them to cope with what amounted
to a crisis and criminal justice with
100% of power knocked out and overworked
police force struggled to maintain a 12
hour curfew today an island already
suffering from economic stress has
become distrustful of a government
unwilling to acknowledge an increasing
death toll estimates now put the number
of people dead from the storm to more
than one thousand seven times the
official figure the only four months
after Maria there are still serious
challenges to Public Safety reports and
crime and domestic violence are on the
rise even as the island experiences an
effective police walkout the thousands
of officers calling in sick to protest
the lack of overtime pay to bring us up
to date and to explore the storms
long-term impact on the islands already
troubled justice system we're pleased to
have William Ramirez with us today on
criminal justice matters he's one of the
founders and the executive director of
foot toe wrinkles branch of the American
Civil Liberties Union and a leader in
the movement for criminal justice reform
on the island we reached him in his
office in San Juan through Skype William
how are you it's great to have you
we've got you through Skype through the
internet connection that's available on
the island we know that half of the
island is still without power so we're
so pleased that you're able to join us
today and I read our viewers should know
that just in case there might be
glitches along the way but it's really a
great honor to have you with us at
criminal justice matters thank you thank
you for inviting me and in fact
yesterday we had a major power outage
again after we got our like prison back
after three and a half months so we were
scared
great bring us up to date a bit on the
conditions of the island right now in
December you called what was happening
since Maria human crisis are we still
involved in the human crisis have things
gotten better yes yes there there is a
human crisis important record many
levels and one of the major areas is
health care right you have a lot of
older citizens do not have access to
health care cannot access doctors
doctors have left many doctors were
leaving before and many have left since
then hospitals some hospitals do not
have electrical generators and so you
don't have access to certain therapies
and we visited patients that are
bedridden in their home that access do
not have access the doctors do not have
access to medicine and have no way of
having access and and if it were not for
some NGOs that go visit they would
probably die and many have died on top
of that public safety has been
compromised safety is compromised as
well crime is up cops police officers
are out on a slowdown because they've
not been paid if in what they've been
working long hours on the very bad
conditions and so a series of things
contribute to this calling a human
crisis but one thing that I've always
said is that human crisis has been here
what maria has done it has amassed
something that has been brewing for a
while which is related to our bankruptcy
or insolvency and the creation of our
fiscal control board that is running the
country but it's not elected by other
people there's so much that we can talk
about in terms of the effect and the
impact on the island of that Maria left
but just to narrow it down on the whole
criminal justice aspect of it people
were worried immediately after the storm
about that personal security there was
fear about safety is that were they did
they have reason to fear are they still
worried sure they have reasons of fear
in very much the same way that people
have reason to fear in Louisiana during
Katrina and New Orleans a lot of crime
went up we had the same issues here but
it gets complicated because
like Louisiana or New Orleans where you
have flat land it's plain we have
mountain towns up and down arranges
mountain ranges in very remote very dark
locations and there have been bands of
criminals that have encouraged criminal
activity one of the common crimes that
we're seeing now as generators being
stolen
anyways up it's coming from nursing
homes from hospitals from businesses and
also from people's homes so there is
crime crime has worsened it's very dark
in some of these communities there is no
police protection no police protection
well somebody sounds of small towns they
have a precinct where maybe a few police
officers pay nah police officers are on
a slowdown so some priests weren't even
opening in the past weeks because they
didn't have the offices to open but also
the police officers are being used at
the intersections because we have no
electricity at the intersections so the
lights aren't working it's chaos when it
comes down to to uh that's the period in
which people go to work and go home
the roads are chaotic and so on council
being used for that but even that is not
covered now because of the slowdown and
of course it's easy to blame the cops
for this situation but in reality this
has been going on for a while and police
officers do have a legitimate complaint
which is you know you're under the Sun
for 18 hours in the rain in the dark
where cars are barely missing you okay
it's very stressful and most cops
support Rico go back to the same
conditions as anyone else here police
officers here not like the police
officers in New York buy homes in Long
Island they buy homes in Staten Island
police officers here live in housing
projects they live in poor Barrios
because they're poorly paid and so they
compact the sister I mean I've been
they've been looking for overtime pay or
they just as well sure they're working
all the time seven days a week I 18
hours a day on the very poor conditions
fully equipped so they're all stressed
out that the checking out sick so now
the
a police department when it's looking to
do is penalize these police officers
that have reported sick and if they
cannot provide evidence that they
actually ill so what am i you know I
have said about this is that you know
it's like the like the Vietnam veteran
or any apparent comes back stressed I
mean it's very difficult to prove that
you have a condition in fact many we are
veterans are not certified by the VA as
having any condition and we know they
happen okay this office is the same
thing so although we have been the
number one
opponents of the police department in
terms of police abuse and corruption
we're also coming out and saying these
are also workers it's really hard to
separate the issues of Public Safety
from the really systemic problems on the
island that start with the economy with
economic bankruptcy hey you've hit it
right on the nail and that's that's a
systemic problem it permeates everything
everything and so you can't look at the
crime the criminality problem in Puerto
Rico what I'm going back to the budget
without going back to the fact that
Puerto Rico is in bankruptcy you can't
look at the health issues that have
allegedly developed since Maria but we
know was there before without looking at
that as well so just about everything
you can connect to this budgetary issue
so the fact that Puerto Rico is
insolvent that Puerto Rico is in
bankruptcy and has a fiscal control
board that basically is going to tell
you what you can and cannot do but so
bring us up to date of it since the
storm what's for the impact on the rest
of the justices in the courts prisons
parole offices right may have they been
sort of paralyzed since then or yes they
back yes no well the courts are
operating there they are operating under
very poor conditions some court houses
still others have partial or partially
open they were closed for a couple
months and that also was a problem
because in fact it was just a Supreme
Court decision this week where the
district attorney's office or what would
be
District Attorney's Office in the States
was asking the court to extend the
period of time to file charges against
this person who's in jail awaiting
charges you have a period of six months
to make sure that this person gets to
the court
get some kind of hearing that didn't
that didn't happen part of it is because
of course with clothes and all the storm
and electricity issues the court said no
we're not going to extend it it's six
months and if you didn't get it down
within six months the emergency the
hurricane emergency is not a reason to
violate this presidency boobies so all
this decision huh all this is giving you
guys in the ACLU a lot more work to do
how do you use it I mean had your city
in San Juan now but when you go out to
the mountain towns how do you get around
what's just in like it's not one you can
get out fairly easily but if you're
traveling to the rest of y'all obviously
transportation is a problem
transportation is a problem access to
certain towns is the problem bridges it
down roads it down there are towns where
people get across on a rope I just you
know if you can imagine it and so yes
it's a problem we don't go out looking
for clients clients call us if there's
an issue so what happens is many times
you have NGOs on the ground that know of
an issue and they contact us we will
call when we had an extended or
indefinite curfew ordered by the
governor which we thought was very
unreasonable
and we were getting calls from people
because they were being stopped by
police officers and their civil
liberties were being violated one man in
particular black man who and I say that
deliberately who was at our gas station
having a meal because he was an electric
electric power worker so he was working
to reinstate the electricity and he went
to have a meal it was after six o'clock
the current takes place at 6:00 he gets
arrested so the reason why I say he's a
black male because the curfew how it
ended was
having young kids from certain
communities most of which applied
communities who tend to be poor
communities be interested so one of the
things we've been hearing that is that
young people as young as nine in fact
have been arrested for breaking the
curfew is there an issue there about
criminalizing young people yeah well no
it's not that they necessarily have been
arrested we don't know that they have we
know people have been arrested but of
that age we're not sure but but that he
can be because there's no limit on how
young that person would be to be
arrested and be treated as an adult so
recently a bill was proposed that would
kind of institutionalize that idea that
you can charge a minor or youth of any
age as an adult criminal and of course
we fought that we appealed to the
governor directly all the groups did the
same and the governor did not sign that
bill the second bill proposed a limit
which we support but that was set at 13
which we do not support we look more to
New York's new you raise the age Act
right which goes into effect in 2019
that raises the eight or reasonable age
for a young person to be charged as an
adult
right so while New York did that we're
going the opposite direction here or
during William again it was fantastic to
have you with us at criminal justice
matters I know our viewers wish you and
everybody in Puerto Rico the best of
luck and getting through the crisis and
finding a way to repair the damage that
has been done to the islands
infrastructure and justice system so
best of luck to you William thank you
Thank You Jodi war is an associate
professor in the Department of Latin
American and Latino Latino Studies at
John Jay College of Criminal Justice
she's an expert in human rights and has
also researched violence against women
in Puerto Rico and across the atmosphere
she joins us today with her perspective
on Maria and justice
Jodee thanks for joining us are you were
listening a bit to our conversation with
William I know you go down to the island
very frequently yes one of the things
that we were talking about William was
the higher incidence of crime and
violence that's happened of course we
don't really know the statistics nobody
which an anecdotal for the most part and
we're a criminal justice University we
deal with statistics what's the problem
with getting statistics out of the
island yeah so as William was saying I
think that the hurricane is uncovered
pre-existing problems that we've had so
statistics has been an ongoing problem
on the island actually wrote in a law
review that talks about this in
particular the issue with statistics is
that we have different fountains that
provide statistics and the numbers from
those different fountains don't always
add up so if I could talk about my area
of expertise for example I work in the
area of human rights and I focus my work
on gender justice issues specifically
domestic violence and in the area of
domestic violence in Puerto Rico you'll
have several areas or several fountains
of information or several sources where
you can get information so there'll be
the police department that have one set
of statistics and domestic violence
crimes you'll have what's called la
propiedad hora de la mujer which is the
woman's advocates office that is
supposed to keep a set of statistics and
domestic violence crimes and then you
have the administrative office of the
courts that's supposed to have another
group of statistics on domestic violence
crimes often when you look at those data
sets they don't always have the same
number and what's really important Steve
to understand is there's no Freedom of
Information Act in Puerto Rico
so you do not get information freely you
must request information and if that
information is not given to you and
which often when you do request that it
takes a long time to get it or it's not
given to you at all you have to ask us
it through the court system so what do
we know
even anecdotally those a few websites
that are actually on their own
right so there's this one very awesome
website that it's just viral right now
it's been viral for some time and it is
what civil society considers a more
reliable and update accurate description
of women that have disappeared what
kinds of crimes have been committed
against women and girls and it's
literally an up to date day by day
social worker who compiled statistics
from every single source that she can
gather whether it's news reports and she
collects and posts them on facebook
during the hurricane has been very very
relevant because during the hurricane we
have had a loss of telecommunications
and a lack of the ability to report
crimes to the police because of the lack
of police presence in many cases as
William has explained and a lack of
access to the court systems right
because of the simple fact that there's
been no infrastructure and there's no
way for people to be able to access this
because they might not have a car the
streets are not you're not able to
access them because there's no roadways
right to be able to get to a police
station even if it was open or a court
system a court tribunal even if it was
open because there's no electricity
right it's just very dangerous during
this period of time even now to travel
so one of the things that we do know is
that there's been an increase in
domestic violence absolutely and that's
directly as a result of the hurricane
absolutely explain that why is it happen
right and do we know any any have
anything close to the kind of figures
that tell us right right right so there
has absolutely been an increase of
domestic violence with any natural
disaster in any part of the world and
I'm gonna focus of course on Puerto Rico
but I think it's important for the
audience to understand that globally
with given you know climate change we're
gonna be seeing this more increasingly
so I think the audience needs to
understand that I think as a global
society global citizens we need to be
more aware of how we can educate our
communities in terms of preparing for
these types of incidences in Puerto Rico
the lack of electricity the lack of
access to food and water is going to
exacerbate human conditions period
there's going to be a human crisis is
you're gonna have PTSD you're gonna have
pre-existing health conditions mental
health condition
PTSD post-traumatic stress disorder sorry right
increase in depression for example and
the simple frustration of not being able
to provide food to your children or your
family or not be able to have any money
to be able to access medicine right or
by water or by food or be able to get to
work to be able to make money all of
those things are going to exacerbate
your situation it's just going to be a
chronic condition that is a result
direct result of any natural disaster in
particular in hurricane Irma and Maria
so that's gonna escalate the incidences
of domestic violence in the household
it's also going to increase suicide
rates right and in the case of domestic
violence you're gonna see an increase of
not only domestic violence but if you
see a murder suicide and those are some
of the situations that you'll see on
this Facebook page so let me cut you on
that so that's a faster than most people
I think don't recognize is that domestic
violence becomes a dimension of any
natural catastrophe and and the reasons
for it are often probably connected with
the economic distress that was there to
begin with and there was just
successfully and the mental health
issues associated with the economic
distress right they're directly
correlated there's no separation I mean
the frustration and and of not being
able to provide for your family and then
the cultural connotations of what that
means right and any culture this is a
male-dominated society in most societies
around the world and what does that mean
and how do you release that anger and
who do you release that anger on to
right and what are the dynamics in your
household if there really were
pre-existing it just exasperates that
and if they weren't it's going to maybe
insinuate or create those types of
situations we know that the shelters
during this period of time were for the
shelter's need food they need a
generator they need a stove they need
these are the things what's the physical
damage the fences are down so we have an
issue with security right we want to
make sure that domestic violence
shelters have a fence that keeps
aggressors out because often some
aggressors are gonna find where the
shelter is right and they're gonna try
to invade that shelter and try to re a
grove ate the victim or the
victims and we want to protect the
victims that are in that shelter so they
were very vulnerable during this time
and keep in mind what Williams said the
police what were not as present right so
it's not like you could call the police
and say hey the aggressor is at the door
of the shelter the shelter doesn't have
a fence we have no way to keep the
aggressor out so that was a breach of
security was a very big concern what do
we know about the figures that's so far
in terms right so so we know from
September 20s to the 30th of 2017 there
were 211 911 calls regarding domestic
violence we know that in October 2017
which was post Maria there were a total
of 889 domestic violence calls right
from November 2nd to the 21st of 2017
there were 647 calls so from September
to November 2017 there were total of 17
hundred and forty seven calls
astronomical number of domestic violence
calls so the issue of gathering data
during that period of time of October to
the end of November has been very
difficult how do we get an accurate
number were the police
so under-resourced and more they do an
effective job at recording it is
questionable because before the
hurricane we know that we had problems
with them collecting accurate data
anyway
is this an underreported number because
people didn't have access to cell phones
and weren't able to get through anyway
so police are just beginning to deal
with the issue of domestic violence in
the mainland you're you've been working
in this issue in all parts of the world
all parts of the hemisphere what's
needed for a justice system and the
police system to be able to cope with
that just very quickly so we've been
working on working on this for decades
and this is a right and we're not gonna
sum it up very quickly but we know that
we need training one of the issues is
and we know that the reform process that
William and other organizations in the
island have been working so hard for is
inclusive of this and actually the ACLU
Puerto Rico has a women's project that
works to teach the community about what
the reform
in terms of the protocol for domestic
violence so they actually go out into
the communities to train the community
they said it has a program that does
this to say this is what your rights are
under the reform and to create awareness
in the community about what their rights
are under the reform whether or not the
police do that is a different story I've
been meeting with the police saying what
is the training for domestic violence
could we work on this how much training
do police officers receive and it's very
very small you know some estimates have
been 30 minutes to an hour three hours
it's been a very inconclusive number so
I think educating police officers and
proper training of how to handle
domestic violence cases and more
cultural awareness and education in the
elementary school through K through 12
system is a really good way to start
Jodie we'll have to have you back again
to talk more about this but thank you so
much thank you thank you if you were
wondering what a hurricane has to do
with criminal justice I hope today's
program will make the link clear in fact
as we face what experts suggest will be
even more serious weather catastrophes
in coming years aggravated by climate
change Puerto Rico's stories should be a
wake-up call preparing a justice system
to cope with the impact of a natural
disaster should be as high on the agenda
of our leaders as rebuilding homes and
getting the lights back on maybe it's
time to ask you representatives if they
share that concern and if not why not
let me know what you think I'm Steve
Handelsman thanks for watching see you
next time
 
