

### Frequently Asked Questions:

### The Human Soul

### By

### Jesus (AJ Miller) &

### Mary Magdalene (Mary Luck)

### Session 2

Published by

Divine Truth, Australia at Smashwords

http://www.divinetruth.com/

Copyright 2016 Divine Truth

Smashwords Edition, License Notes

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### This ebook is a collection of answers given by Jesus (AJ Miller) on the topic of the human soul. The answers were given in an interview with Mary Magdalene (Mary Luck), on 9th April 2013 in Wilkesdale, Queensland, Australia. In this session Jesus and Mary have further discussions about how the human soul operates, which was introduced in Session 1, describing the principles of preclusion, dominance and progression.

### Reminder From Jesus & Mary

### Jesus and Mary would like to remind you that any document produced by Divine Truth containing any information from Jesus, Mary or any other person includes only a portion of God's Truth that they have personally discovered.

### It does not and cannot contain the entire of God's Truth since God's Truth is infinite and humankind will forever continue to discover more of God's Truth as we progress in receiving more of God's Love.

### Please remember that due to these limitations information contained within this document may need to be revised in the future.

### Many other ebooks have been published by Divine Truth, including ebooks translated into a variety of different languages.

### Please visit <http://www.Smashwords.com/profile/view/DivineTruth> or www.divinetruth.com for further information.

### Additional sessions on the subject in this book can be found on www.Smashwords.com/profile/view/DivineTruth

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Table of Contents

0. Introductory Comments

1. Discussion of session one written introductory remarks

2. Discussion and questions about "Preclusion"

3. Do you collect money at your seminars?

4. The principle of "Dominance"

5. Discussion and questions about "Progression"

0. Introductory Comments

Welcome to our second session on the discussion about the human soul and answering questions about the human soul. Before we answer any more questions about the human soul we really want to go over our first session, because we feel there is quite a lot of information that we need to add to the first session as a general discussion and general questions. After this session we might be able to get into answering some specific questions about the human soul and questions that people have sent in about the human soul. Hopefully this discussion is like a addendum to session one, so what we recommend that everybody does with this session is that they firstly watch session one, which I think is in seven or eight parts, and then come to this particular session which we will classify as "Discussion and questions about session one."

**Mary:** The topic of session one was "How the Human Soul Functions," and we will be going through those principles again today, with perhaps some other details and some more questions.

That's our primary purpose today so hopefully you'll enjoy the conversation. Mary and I are going to have some interaction during this discussion about the human soul and how it functions and we hope that in the process of that discussion it becomes clearer about the points we raised in our first session.

1. Discussion of session one written introductory remarks

**Mary:** To start off, you have actually prepared some notes about how the human soul functions. You had a discussion with Luli in the last session, which was great, and I had a look over that this morning. I thought some of the notes that you've written here are really informative. Perhaps if we could even just go through those notes paragraph by paragraph and discuss some of the points that perhaps weren't covered in that first session? I would love to do that with you.

Sounds good.

**Mary:** Are you happy to start?

Sure, I'll read the first paragraph. "God made a fool proof system with the soul; God did not design the same system for the mind. This is because the mind is a part of the physiological functions of the soul rather than being the soul itself. The mind is an attribute of the soul. The soul has many other attributes and characteristics, some of which are far more important to develop than the mind and some of which are far more powerful in determining the Divine Truth than the mind has the capacity to absorb. The soul eventually contains the mind but has many more attributes than just the mind."

**Mary:** To me there's a lot in that paragraph (Mary and AJ laugh) but perhaps we could start with the very first sentence. I wanted to ask you, you said that God made a fool proof system with the soul. What do you mean by that? Like, what's it fool proof against?

(Laughs) It's almost suggesting that anyone who has a soul is a bit of a fool, potentially a bit of a fool, but that's not the case. But yes, when I say that God made a fool proof system, it's really clever the way God designed the entire Universe. The way God designed the universe was that God first designed all of the laws that govern the Universe, so before the Universe actually came into existence the laws were already established. Now the majority of these laws and the most powerful of these laws are governing the human soul. That means that God, before God created the universe, knew that God was going to create the human soul. In fact, the Universe has been created for the human soul to exist. It's like the human's playground, so we first need to understand that God made this big set of laws that govern the potential existence of the human soul, then God created the human soul, and then God created the universe which the human soul could use as a playground.

**Mary:** Right. So what you're saying is that God really did all of this for the human soul.

Correct.

**Mary:** God created the framework or the laws that would govern the experience of the soul. Is that what you mean?

Not only the experience of the soul but govern the very operation of the universe in which the soul lived and the interaction between the Universe and itself. God created a whole series of very complex laws in order to do that. Now this means that God made the entire system fool proof; in other words, we can't make mistakes with the human soul that aren't able to be corrected. I mean we can make mistakes, certainly, that need correction but we can't actually make mistakes where the human soul somehow destroys the Universe and we can't make mistakes where the human soul is not governed by law still. In other words, the human soul is always governed by Law and we can't avoid that, we can't get away from that, and the laws were all previously established, before the Universe even came into existence. What that means then is that the soul itself is this integrated system that God created that interacts with the Universe and particularly interacts with the laws of the Universe because there are some parts of the Universe that only get created when the soul interacts within the law framework in a certain way. That means then that it's impossible to break the human soul; in other words, it's impossible to cause so much damage to the human soul that it's irreparable, and in that regard God made a fool proof system.

It doesn't matter how much we are fools, and how much we desire to break the laws, desire to get away from the framework. In the end the human soul is an unbreakable piece of machinery that God has made that nothing can destroy, as far as it's known, aside from God Herself. Also, while the human body can be destroyed and go into different elements and while the spirit body can theoretically do the same thing, it is highly unlikely that that can happen to the human soul, and when I say highly unlikely, we don't know because it's never happened, but at this stage there is no record of any single human soul ever being destroyed or being put back into its elemental parts. Because of that you could say that God created a fool proof human soul, a soul that is unable to be destroyed, a soul that no matter what mistakes we make we are unable to fully decompose the soul itself. In other words, the soul will always retain its existence after its creation.

**Mary:** Okay, you said a few things there that I would like to ask more about. You said that basically the soul can't ever be destroyed; even if we wanted to destroy it, it can't happen. Then you described what sounded like...

As far as we know.

**Mary:** As far as we know, yes.

Who knows that at some point in the future God may have a process for human souls that haven't received Divine Love? I don't know. But at this point in time there has been no single human soul that's ever been destroyed into its elemental parts. In other words, the human soul, no matter how bad it gets, no matter how self-destructive it becomes and no matter have much intention it has to act out of harmony with love, still can't get destroyed. In that regard it's fool proof.

**Mary:** In fact it almost seems to be the other way around doesn't it? No matter what we do, the universe and the laws that we interact with seem to push us towards growth don't they?

Well, they push us towards correction. The reality is that the way God has created this Universe is that every framework if you like, the universal framework which are laws, which we classify as laws, that govern the human soul and govern the Universe itself and the interaction between the soul and the Universe, which is a very important factor, these laws are unable to be broken and therefore they are always in operation. They impose themselves upon the human soul so no matter how far the human soul gets out of harmony with them, the laws are attempting to correct the human soul back into harmony. This is the beautiful system that God made; it's such a fool proof system. It doesn't matter how much we take the human soul out of harmony through the exercise of our will, the law framework of the Universe in which we live is pulling us, or attempting to pull us, back into harmony, and so it's a self-correcting system. Eventually, given enough time, every single individual in the universe will be pulled back into harmony with the Universal Laws.

**Mary:** Yes, so from what you said earlier and what you said now it sounds like the soul operates within a system which is the Universe and the Universal Laws that God has ...

Well the soul operates within the Universal Laws, and the Universe and the soul are basically the result of those universal laws. The soul is the most complicated of all of God's creations. The human soul is the most complicated; it's far more complex than the human body, it's far more complex than the spirit body, it's far more complex than the Universe itself actually.

**Mary:** Yes so this is where I want to ask you because in your introduction there you said, you basically described to me, it sounds like two systems. One is the system of God's universe in operation of which the soul is a part of, and then you described the soul as a system itself.

Well it's even more than that because there are parts of the Universe that are yet to be created but the soul has the potential to create through the governing systems of the laws. So really the two systems are - (1) the laws that govern the interaction between the soul and the Universe, and then - (2) the Universe itself, of which the soul is a part.

The soul has the ability to create new universes as it proceeds, so if we classify not only all of the universes that have been created at this point, but all of the universes that are potentially able to be created, given the governing of the laws, then we are saying that the soul is more complicated and complex than all of those things, because it has the ability to actually seed or create those things. But there are those two factors: the factor of the soul itself and the Universe that has been created in which the soul plays are all governed by Universal Laws that God established prior to the creation of both the Universe and the Soul.

**Mary:** Yes and so I suppose I was asking about... in your statement you said that there is a fool proof system with the soul and from what you've just said, it sounds like there is a fool proof system that happens ...

Universally (Laughs)

**Mary:** ... universally ...

Correct.

**Mary:** ... that the soul operates in and impacts upon through the creation of new dimensions and things like that.

Yes

**Mary:** And then today we were going to talk more about how the human soul functions and you could almost call that a system, or it's a way in which the human soul operates and is that this universal thing ...?

There are laws that determine its operation; these are all laws, the principles that determine the soul's operation. Everything that God has designed has laws that govern its operation, from the soul, the most complex creation of God, right the way through to the other lesser complex creations of God, right down to the individual elements. They are all, even right down to individual sub-atomic particles, created and governed by the laws that surround them; none of them can operate outside of the law. None of them operate outside of the laws that God's established.

**Mary:** Cool.

Mankind has yet to discover most of those laws. We think we have discovered most of them but actually we've yet to discover a minute particle of those laws that fully govern the entire system of the soul and the universe in which it lives.

**Mary:** So the fool proof system is what? The universe in which it lives or the soul itself?

Both; both are fool proof systems. Everything God creates is a fool proof system, and we are arrogant when we say that God made a mistake because God does not make mistakes when it comes to any system that God creates. God created the soul. God did not make a mistake with the soul and any appearance of mistake is actually the exercise of our will in a direction that's out of harmony with the law, and then these mistakes appear but they are of our own creation (laughs), not the creation of God.

**Mary:** But from your statement that it's fool proof, you were saying that it's fool proof in terms of destruction? You can't destroy the Universe; you can't destroy the soul.

It's even fool proof with regard to when we create, or attempt to create, outside of the law. The law is still imposed and as a result there is a correction; there is a painful experience that the soul experiences and all of that happens as a result of us attempting to operate outside the law. It's impossible to operate outside of the law. We need to give that up as a concept, and any pain that the human soul individually or collectively experiences is the result of the individual or the collective taking actions that are out of harmony with the laws that are fixed and immovable and nothing can change those laws. Nothing can change those laws, aside from God.

**Mary:** This is the other aspect of how it's fool proof. We can't wreck the laws, we can't break the laws, we can't break our soul, we can't ...

We can't manipulate the law, we can't manoeuvre around the laws just like you can here on Earth; you can manoeuvre around a bit, manoeuvre around the laws, you can't do that. You can't break the soul in any physical sense or emotional sense or spiritual sense actually, and any concept that you can is based on an imaginary concept that humans have created living out of harmony with the laws of themselves. It's just a remarkable system and the more time you spend investigating the human soul the more remarkable it appears.

**Mary:** Because it sounds like you are saying not only is it a fool proof system, you can't buck the system, you can't override the system. Then presumably everything that you talk about today, which is really the system, or how the soul functions, the system of the soul if we can call it that, these things are immovable. Given what you just said about the laws, presumably they're all there because they're expedient and work well.

Well they are also there because they are loving. All of God's Laws are loving, so that means that every single law that God's ever created for the complete operation of the Universe and the operation of the human soul is always loving. All of these principles we are going to discuss are also loving. It doesn't mean that we're going to discuss exhaustive principles because obviously we, humanity is in a process of discovering the soul more and more and more and as we discover more things about the soul there's a likelihood that we will discover more laws that govern the operation of the soul. Therefore we can't just say that these are all the known laws that govern the operation of the soul but they are the laws that we are going to discuss more fully today. They are actually little known on the Earth; few, if any, actually really know these laws or understand the principle of the operation of these laws. It's only in the spirit world in the highest spheres and dimensions that most people have come to know the operation of the particular laws to a degree, and I am not saying it's to a complete degree.

**Mary:** Okay, so if we continue then, because we just discussed the first sentence - there's a lot. (Laughs) You sort of went on to say that the mind is quite separate from this system of the soul and perhaps if you...

Well yes, I wouldn't call it separate; I would call it an attribute of the soul. The soul is a very, very complex organism which has, as we've discussed, a multitude of laws which operate upon it and govern its operation, physically, emotionally and spiritually, and the mind is just an attribute or an 'organ' of the soul. It's a bit like in your body right now you could say you've got a liver, you've got kidneys, you've got a pancreas, you've got a gall bladder, you've got all these other organs, and one of these organs is your brain.

Well it's a very similar analogy with the soul. One of the organs of the soul is, you could think of it as, the brain of the soul. This is what we classify as the mind and this is not what most people think of as the mind. Most people are not aware of the soul at all and what they see as the mind, if they are even partially developed, they think the mind is the brain. If they're a bit more spiritually aware they think the mind is the mind of the spirit body, and neither of those things is the mind. (Laughs) The real mind of the soul is an organ of the soul and would exist without the spirit body or the physical body existing. That mind is a subset, if you like, of the soul itself. The soul has far more powerful organs than its own mind and is able to express itself far more powerfully through the expression of other attributes of the soul than its own mind.

**Mary:** I know that's something you discussed at length with Luli so I don't want to rehash or go over that, but I suppose some of the questions I was thinking about are some of the implications of mind dominance on the planet and so on. Perhaps I should ask you to read the following paragraphs and we might get to that point.

Okay. "For example ..." and this is one example of the soul having many more attributes than just the mind, "... humility is a far more important attribute to develop than developing the intellect. The reason for this is if a person is not humble on any single subject than their mind is not capable of absorbing any new truth about the same subject. The mind that is not driven by humility that exists in the soul is always in opposition or disagreement with what is often logically obvious to a humble person. In addition, without humility in the soul, the mind will be driven to defend its own position even when that position is obviously out of harmony with love, logic and truth."

What I am basically saying there is that the human soul's attribute of humility is far more important to develop than the attribute of the intellect, because without humility the intellect can't actually be developed at all. (Laughs) In other words, humility must come before developing the intellect, in a certain endeavour. For example, let's say you wanted to pick up a musical instrument. Unless you're humble to the fact that you don't know how to play it at the start and that you need to go to somebody who will teach you, or read a book to teach you, or at least learn using some method, usually it comes from some source other than yourself, and you are humble enough to actually go through that process, then it is highly unlikely that you'll be able to learn very much with regard to that musical instrument. Now of course many people who are prodigies are actually humble with spirit interaction and a spirit teaches them everything they need to know, but it's the same process, it's still the same process. Somebody had to be humble enough to absorb that information and therefore act upon it before they could actually learn the information itself. Take the actions needed to learn how to play a musical instrument; the same applies to every single form of endeavour that you could ever think of.

**Mary:** What I find fascinating about that is the fact that we do live in a world today which lauds the mind and the development of the mind and those who are very intellectually clever and yet, when we neglect other really important attributes of our soul, we actually stunt the growth of our mind. We can also set ourselves up for a lot of disappointment by trying to use our mind and to grow and learn, when we haven't developed other qualities that would make that process a lot easier and actually ensure our success.

Correct. It's a very important factor about understanding that the soul has these other attributes, not just the intellect or the mind part of the soul. The soul has other attributes which are far more logical to develop first actually, than to develop the mind itself. What I feel is happening a lot on earth today is that most people focus on the development of their intellect and do not focus on the development of these far more important aspects of the soul, and as a result the intellect is severely disabled.

This is how we come up with disabled thinking like the whole thinking that, "If you attack me then that gives me the right to attack you." This is disabled thinking. If we were connected with our soul, and we connected with love and humility, we would go, "Wow, that's a pretty illogical thing, because if I attack you, if I hit you in the face or something and you decide you're going to get out a knife and attack me, sooner or later one of us is going to escalate this attack right the way through to our death," and it is a pretty pointless process after that. This is obviously very illogical, obviously very illogical and yet there are many people on Earth today who would swear with all their might, including die, for their right to attack another person for what they've done to them. That is obviously out of harmony with true logic but many people think it's logical. That's because there are aspects of their soul other than their intellect that are severely lacking in development.

Do you want me to read the next one?

**Mary:** Yes, you can continue.

"Another example is love. Love is a far more important attribute to develop than developing the intellect. The mind is also not capable of experiencing the feelings of love. The mind is totally incapable of understanding some of the workings of the universe without the soul understanding love, both natural love coming from within the human and Divine Love coming from God's Soul. It matters not how much is discussed with such a mind. The soul attached to the mind will not have the capacity to understand the truth about how the universe actually works without the soul receiving Divine Love from God. The mind will not have the capacity to understand Natural Love without the soul having developed its own natural love to some degree."

This is another example of how there are attributes in the soul that are far more important to develop than the intellect itself. In fact what happens, and what we've found happens through our own experience, is that the more humble you are and the more loving you become, the more you understand. Interestingly, if you develop some aspects of the soul other than the intellect, the intellect is automatically developed as a by-product of the development in these other areas. This is because the soul itself is dominant over the intellect, over the mind.

**Mary:** Yes, and some qualities of the soul, some aspects of the soul such as humility and love, when we develop those it actually improves the function of many of the other aspects of the soul.

Correct, including the mind.

**Mary:** Including the mind, yes, whereas if we focus on the mind, we can focus, focus, focus and try but, as you've just said, unless we're working on these other things it's limited. Whereas if we focus on humility and love as we grow them, we're not limiting any other part, in fact we're enabling the other functions of the soul.

Correct, and not only are we enabling them, we are enabling them to grow more rapidly. In other words, we even have a stronger ability intellectually to absorb new information, once we develop other aspects of the soul. What I notice quite strongly in people in particular is that if the person is not humble or does not have love it is very, very difficult for them to intellectually understand some concepts and very, very difficult for them to display logic in most of their life. This is because of the effect of the soul's development in areas other than the intellect and how it has an impact upon the intellect. The intellect, if you like, is what you would classify as the effect of the causal change that occurs within the soul in other areas, so a person's intellect improves in its function once other areas of the soul improve in their function.

**Mary:** Yes, and it's fascinating to consider that people who've made great intellectual discoveries, well, all of them that I can think of at the moment, started out as very humble, and also developed themselves in other areas such as music; they weren't limited simply to ...

They were very focused on desire, which is an aspect of the soul.

**Mary:** ... and the fact that they didn't know and they needed to discover something, which is humble in itself.

They were always learning, so that was 'humble to learning'; they wanted to experiment a lot, which is an indication of a humble soul. A person who doesn't experiment is not genuinely a very humble person.

**Mary:** Yes, and so many of them, the people who we know who have really made huge intellectual discoveries in our history, had those attributes. Sometimes we see though, that after making that discovery they lose some humility.

And therefore lose the attributes of further discovery, which is an interesting thing. There are other impediments to learning that start developing within the soul, and one of the major impediments is the lack of humility. As that develops there is an impediment to absorbing new information, an impediment to becoming more loving and as a result their understanding of other information that they had not yet discovered is limited.

Usually you find that people have discoveries and then they get to a point, usually it is in their older age, where they don't actually make many new discoveries. That's usually because of the growing lack of humility that occurs. Now there are some people historically who haven't been like that so much and who you know were humble through the entire process. As a result, they made discoveries most of their lives, and that is the result of the same law in operation.

**Mary:** Okay, you happy to continue?

Sure

**Mary:** If you perhaps read the next two paragraphs.

Sure.

"As such the mind by itself is incapable of determining, absorbing, or understanding all of the Divine Truths of the Universe without the other attributes or characteristics of the soul being engaged along with and controlling the mind's processes. If any person elects to just listen to the truth with their mind, they will never become at-one with God nor will they ever understand or automatically be able to practice Divine Truth in their daily life, nor can they ever be automatically loving in all circumstances and conditions. The mind by itself, or influenced by a soul in error in regard to love, can be completely irrational and illogical while at the same time believing itself to be completely sane, rational and logical." (Laughs)

**Mary:** Yes (Laughter)

Isn't that the truth.

**Mary:** It is, it is and we kind of touched on that already. I brought an example with me and it comes from an email that I received recently. This is from someone that believes themselves to be very rational and logical and I just thought perhaps I would read a few of their statements and we can show how illogical someone who thinks they're quite logical can be. I would certainly put my ...

And this person has listened to Divine Truth for six years or so.

**Mary:** Yes. This person's saying "I need to work through the feeling, that if ninety percent of a teacher's class ..." and this is with reference to yourself (points to AJ) "... isn't progressing after years of trying, then at least some of this must reflect on the quality of the teaching."

Already there is an illogical statement, because it is also possible from a logical perspective that they think they are trying when they are not actually trying. That's also possible. But that's not stated of course.

**Mary:** Yes. "I intellectually understand that although we may have spent decades searching for spiritual truth and on dedicated spiritual paths, we may still not be prepared to do what needs to be done."

Well see, again I feel there is this focus on what needs to be done, rather than a focus on needing to become more loving, and this is a part of the problem. The mind says, "Give me the rules and I will go and do them." (Laughter) But the soul is often incapable of doing them unless you release certain emotions that prevent you from taking certain actions. This is an example of how the soul is governing the mind and yet the mind believes itself to be taking an action that the soul has not engaged.

**Mary:** Yes, but even this idea that ninety percent of a teacher's class, if they're not progressing then that must reflect on the quality of the teaching, that to me seems to overlook a huge ingredient, and that is the will of those in the class. It's actually stating that the teacher is in charge of the will of the student.

Which is incorrect obviously.

**Mary:** Yes. That's illogical to me.

Yes. If we took this logic, the logic that he is using here to its full conclusion, God is the worst teacher of the Universe, because hardly anybody in the whole Universe has actually absorbed most of the information that God is willing to provide. That means, using this analogy, we are basically saying that God is the worst teacher in the Universe because hardly anybody knows anything about what God knows.

**Mary:** In spite of God creating an entire universe, which is designed to teach us about ourselves and about Him.

Correct, and it also minimises the use of our will, it also minimises this quality of humility. Obviously we're unable to learn, even if we think we are able to learn, we are unable to learn unless we have true humility. I feel that the majority of people who are associated with Divine Truth have yet to develop true humility; they think they know things they don't know yet. (Laughs) I feel this fellow is in the exactly same boat. He thinks he knows things that he doesn't know yet, and then he blames me for not understanding them correctly or not being able to feel the benefits of them. Of course you can't feel the benefits of something that the soul hasn't grown with. Sure, he says he understands intellectually, but I feel that those two words should never be placed together. (Laughter) The reason I feel that is that when we say to ourselves "I intellectually understand something but ..." really we don't understand it intellectually; because the intellectual understanding of something is only possible once the soul is free to actually understand it and therefore pass on its understanding to the intellect. This is part of the problem that people face. They keep telling themselves they understand something when they've only heard it. They don't understand it, they haven't applied it in their daily life; they've only heard it, and hearing something doesn't cause change. It's a part of something that can trigger change but it doesn't cause change. Change is caused, as we will discuss later, by the soul being engaged through a process.

**Mary:** Yes, and I suppose what struck me between the eyes was a person was saying to me, and they say later in their message to me, that they are quite logical, or they refer to their logic and rationalising.

Yes, but every statement we've read so far is illogical (laughs) and that's the irony.

**Mary:** Yes. And to me, I suppose it struck me that someone who has attended six years of lectures, which speak about the very things that you spoke of, about the necessity of the soul to be engaged and the necessity for the will to be engaged and the fact that you will never attempt to coerce the will of a student ...

Correct, or force the will of a student, or coerce or manipulate (laughs) or anything.

**Mary:** Or egg on, because the whole point is for each student to engage their will, with God, and not with you, so then I can't see how they can see that it's a logical statement to say that if ninety percent of them aren't doing that, that's your fault. (Points to AJ)

Correct. Because I'm doing it, (laughter) and if someone follows the teachings I've given them, they'd probably end up doing it if they really follow it in their soul. You see this is the trouble; most people think they are following it but they've only heard it. They haven't followed it yet. They only try to take actions without there being any soul-based change. What we're trying to do in this particular session is explain to people why they are stagnant. They're stagnant, and in fact this man is stagnant, for this exact reason; he does not understand how the soul works and how as a result he has yet to involve the soul's operation. As a result he can't practise Divine Truth even though he thinks he wants to.

**Mary:** Yes, and I suppose also, obviously engaging that soul process is about developing humility and growing ourselves in love, and when that doesn't happen we can think we're being logical when in fact there is no logic. In our statements.

No, and the reality is that if we took this man's statements as logical, then it logically follows that God is the worst teacher of the Universe and I definitely cannot agree with that. God is the person that hardly anybody listens to, (laughter) and hardly anyone follows what God suggests (laughs) and I would certainly not then say that God is the worst teacher of the Universe as a result.

**Mary:** Well, because we know God has even created not just a class or a classroom, or a lecture theatre, but an entire universe that is to teach?

Universes. (Laughs)

**Mary:** Universes, and that people within it, regardless of their age, their race, their intellect, can begin to learn about God without anyone else being around them. Now to me that's a pretty awesome teacher, but if we begin to measure the value of teachers based on the will of their students, to me that's not logical. I just can't understand how that's logical.

Yes, and look at the way that teaching occurs on the planet. Generally the way that teaching occurs on the planet is that it only occurs when there is a goal at the end. This is where I feel a lot of people struggle with Divine Truth too, because there is no real end goal. It's infinite progression that is the goal, so therefore you will always be changing, whereas most people are used to having a two or three year class and then they get a certificate and that's the whole reason they did it in the first place. In other words they did it for an addictive reason. They wanted a result at the end that they could conceive and they only did it for that purpose. The reality is that if we are taking that approach with Divine Truth we're never going to learn it, because it has to be driven by desire for the relationship with God rather than a desire for an end goal other than that, that we might achieve. As a result there are no addictions that are ever going to be fed through the process.

**Mary:** Yes, and humility is the state of embracing constant learning, constant receipt of new truth, from God, from those around us, from everything around us. It's living in a state of humility, which is a significant part of The Way.

Most people have yet to understand what that means.

**Mary:** Yes well, it does mean that we are perpetually saying, "I want more knowledge, I don't have it all," so as soon as we get into this ...

It's not just more knowledge; see this is where we've got to be careful, where people like this man, who have focused their life on the absorption of more intellectual knowledge, really struggle with Divine Truth. They believe that they have spiritual development because their mind tells them so, but the reality is that the true spiritual development is about love. How the soul functions is all about love. It's not about the intellect, and you can tell yourself things with the intellect that have no bearing whatsoever on the true condition of your soul. It's only its development in love that is going to cause any change and unless you're willing to develop your soul in love, either natural love or God's Love, your soul will not change. It doesn't matter how good the teacher is you will not do it, because of your own resistance and other issues that we need to discuss, about how the soul functions.

**Mary:** Yes, I suppose I feel now that any knowledge is not real unless it is in the soul.

Correct. It's just a thought, it's just something we've heard, it means nothing actually, and it generally has no impact or bearing on our lives either; we've just heard it.

**Mary:** I have about six years of university education, and I often used to joke about "The things that I have learnt and forgotten are amazing." I've learnt and forgotten a lot of things, which shows that I didn't receive it in the soul. I was just memorising and regurgitating.

Correct, because once you really learn something it's in your soul permanently. You never lose it; it never goes away, if it's truth, Divine Truth it never goes away; if it's error mixed with truth, then obviously it's refined but yes, if you truly learn something in your soul it never goes away.

**Mary:** Okay. Thank you for that.

You see, you can't lose your memory of it. (Laughter)

**Mary:** Professionally you also know that the things that you have experience with - I think this is why a lot of people criticise university education, because you do a lot of theory before practice a lot of times - but you know that once you've had a practical application of some of the things you retain it.

It's much easier to remember things, correct, because it's now in your experience, it's in your soul's experience and this is why. I find it quite ironic really; a lot of the things that people know about learning and teaching are actually where they have engaged their soul in some direction without initially understanding how the soul works. If you really understood how the soul works, you could teach the soul faster and more effectively than what we are currently able to teach the souls of humans. It is very important for us to understand these principles because it is going to affect every area of our life. It's even going to affect how education is embraced, if people understood these principles.

**Mary:** I think it's crazy when people criticise you as a teacher because I have watched you. You are humble, you embrace, you live the example of what you teach, but you also constantly attempt to find a point of engagement with people without altering their will, and many good teachers do that. God does that, constantly trying to find a point of engagement with a person.

That doesn't mean that the teacher made a mistake with the previous point of engagement. It means that the teacher loves you and cares about you and wants to try to work out a way he can get some information into your soul, to try to work around a lot of your resistance and denials. (Laughs)

**Mary:** Yes. Anyway let's continue.

I'll keep reading the next two?

"The mind is controlled by the soul. The mind can never fully control the soul since the soul is not an attribute of the mind nor is it subordinate to the mind, but rather the mind is subordinate to the soul, because it is one of the many attributes of the soul. The soul will always eventually determine the beliefs, actions, thoughts and words of the individual." I think that's a pretty clear statement. "When it comes to the absorption of truth by the soul and the mind there are a number of basic understandings regarding how the soul operates that one needs to understand before we can really discuss what it means to live in truth. My reference to truth in the discussion below all refer to God's Truth, Divine Truth or as it also called: the Absolute Truth of the Universe."

**Mary:** Right, so that's the preamble that you wrote. Before we go on to discuss the different ways that the human soul functions with different principles, I suppose some of the questions I had just rising from that, and you've covered a lot of what you were going to talk about ...

Well let's answer the rest of those questions. I think there are two more you had down there: The world's general idea that the mind is the ultimate tool.

**Mary:** Yes, for experiencing the world, and this is a problem obviously, because it is not based in reality. We are a soul with a mind, not a mind with a soul.

Let's be even more specific, shall we? The human body, the physical body, has a brain; the brain controls the physiological processes within the body itself. The brain is not you and it is not your mind. Then the spirit body, which is another body that is a part that was created at the time of your conception, it also has a DNA structure. It also has organs and it also has a mind, a brain in fact but it is not the mind of the soul. It's a brain that controls the physiological functions of the spirit body; it controls how the spirit body works and operates. If a person in their physical body loses a part of their brain, other parts of the brain can learn those functions. That is a well known fact; this is proof that the memories contained within that experience can't be contained within the mind because otherwise they would have died completely when that part of the brain died, so this is an indication that the information is coming from somewhere other than the physical body's brain. A spirit also has the same experience. A spirit can lose a part of their brain through certain emotional conditions and therefore act as if they don't have a memory of something, but once they recover their operation though some emotions, once they deal with some emotions, that part of the brain fires up again and as a result the memories get passed from the soul to that part of the brain. It's the soul that contains the mind; we need to be very specific about this.

The physical body's brain is not the mind; the spirit body's brain is not the mind. The mind, the true mind, belongs to the soul. It's an organ of the soul, whether it is developed or not it's an organ of the soul. For most people it is a very poorly developed organ of the soul, but it's still an organ of the soul. As such it can potentially exist without the two bodies. It can definitely exist without the physical body because we have proof of that all the time in the spirit world. It can also potentially exist without the spirit body; the mind can still exist because it is an organ of the soul. Now that being the case, this means that every time we focus on our intellectual development rather than our soul development, we are attempting to focus on the development of an organ rather that the entire being. This is fraught with dangers and often these dangers are very palpable. We see them in society where people have been focused in their intellectual development; for example, a scientist focused in his intellectual development develops the atomic bomb. And then they drop it. That is not a very loving act; there are obviously aspects of the soul that have yet to be developed.

That would enable not only the discovery of the atomic bomb, but the use of it. The fact that we can discover certain things is fine. It's how we use them that are governed by other organs in the soul. Obviously a lot of people have used the knowledge they've found or discovered in a very poor way, completely out of harmony with love and completely out of harmony with humility or a lot of other aspects of the soul, which are far more important to develop.

This is where we've got to be very careful and this is why the world has so many problems. Because we are so intellectually dominant, we have forgotten the development of other aspects of the soul, in particular two aspects, the development of love and the development of our will in harmony with love. We've forgotten these two forms of development. These two forms of development are far more important to us and our future and also the survival of humanity than the development of the intellect. The intellect of course will develop as a result of developing these other two things, so I'm not saying that the intellect won't be developed; I'm saying that we'll have a highly-developed society which is also developed in these other aspects of the soul.

And then we had the third question, didn't we, about people believing they are logical and I think we sort of answered that, haven't we? I wanted to talk about the flow of information in that with regard to logic. You see, oftentimes we sort of think we're logical, but we don't know the emotions that are governing this kind of logic that we are exhibiting. For example, if you put a person in a war, they will eventually believe, given enough problems and trauma, that it's okay to kill other people under certain circumstances, whether it's okay to defend themself by killing another person or it's okay to defend their wife or their children by killing another person. They'll eventually generally believe that, given today's society. Now they believe that because of a feeling in their soul that is not logical at all but the soul, because it's open to this feeling, allows that thought to pass through and therefore distort the logic of the individual. Because it makes no sense; if I kill you then sooner later someone around you with the same belief is going to want to kill me. If I kill more of your family then they'll probably want to kill more of my family and eventually this will escalate and escalate and turn into a national war and eventually become even worse.

This last century just passed, we had world wars governed by that particular concept. As Gandhi said, "An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind." There's the demonstration of true logic. What he said was a demonstration of true logic. Now why did he have that logic, when the average person on earth has a completely different logic? He had that logic because he had more love in his soul. This love in his soul governed ... he could see very clearly that the logic that other people were using wasn't logical at all. It was completely illogical. It made no sense whatsoever for the long term survival of the human race and he could see that very clearly because he had more love in his soul.

This is an example of how when you've got more love in your soul or your soul is further developed; you get to see things logically completely differently to how other people see them. The reason for this is that when there is an emotion in the soul only certain types of information are allowed to pass in the mind of the individual connected to the soul of that individual. If I have a feeling in my soul that preservation of myself at all costs is justified, then my mind will logically assume, from that particular feeling, that I can defend myself to the point of killing somebody else.

**Mary:** Yes, so basically you're saying that our logic is based upon what we believe is true, and when there are false beliefs or errors within what we believe to be truth and we base our reasoning upon those errors, our logic will actually become very illogical.

Very illogical, in fact even irrational, and sometimes even psychotic (laughs). That's how bad it can become, and yet we think that it's logical. This is a big problem people need to understand, I feel. The flow of information, inside from the soul to the mind, and inside the mind though the intellect into our expression, is completely governed by the feelings and belief systems that are inside the soul at any one point in time. It's not governed by logic, what I would classify as true logic, because true logic is always in harmony with love, always in harmony with truth, always in harmony with humility and always in harmony with many other qualities that are like that, in harmony with ethics and those kinds of qualities.

Most people don't have true logic. I have met very intellectually developed people I would consider to be almost totally illogical when it comes to certain reasoning's and arguments. You can reason with them, and once you reason with them on those particular subjects where they are illogical they get angry (laughs). They get angry, they get critical, not just critical, they become violently abusive with their rage and that's all because they know they are being illogical (laughs) and they know that the logic that's being presented to them is confronting certain emotions inside of them so they respond that way.

**Mary:** Yes, isn't it because the error-based emotions are being challenged through the expressions of logic and because there is a fear of those things, then there is a resistance placed up to that?

Yes, that's right. So I feel it is very important to say that with any soul-based emotions and beliefs that are out of harmony with the laws of love, there is going to be a resistance to the flow of true logical information coming into our mind. As a result of that we are going to think we're logical when we're totally illogical. We will make no sense at all and we believe we're making sense and that is the trouble. We believe we're making sense when we're making no logical sense at all if we analyse all of the factors. With the example you gave before of the man who made the statement about my teaching, he hadn't thought that if he took that logical argument to its full conclusion, he's really saying that God is the worst teacher in the universe.

He hasn't thought through this so-called logical argument that he has and therefore the argument is not logical; it is driven by his emotions. Let's talk about some of the emotions that are driving it. The emotions that are driving it are his own resistance to feelings, his own resistance to emotions, and his belief that other people have a problem before he does. In other words, his own arrogance and his lack of humility, these are all the emotions in his soul that are driving that thought, because if he thought in a far more humble and loving way he'd see that God is the best teacher in the universe, has hardly any connection to most of the people on this planet in comparison to what's possible, and that is because of the resistance of the individual and the use of their will, and why could that also not apply to my teaching others? He would automatically see that.

**Mary:** It seems very clear that our understanding of what is logical is based on what we believe to be truth and if we are wrong in what we believe to be true than we cannot be logical, because our mind or our intellect is only functioning with what the soul is saying is truth.

Let's be more definite about it. If we are wrong from God's perspective, because that's really the perspective we are looking at here, if we're wrong from God's perspective even though we are right from our own, we will not be logical. In fact it is impossible for us to be so, and this is why many very intellectually developed people on this planet make very unwise choices and decisions. The main reason why is that they have not developed these other aspects of their soul that are more important to develop than their intellect.

**Mary:** As that message that I received went on, that man began to make what he felt were more logical assumptions about your actions and behaviour, even predicting your future actions, based on things that were not true from God's perspective and so were not even indicative of what you were doing, what you were thinking or what you were going to do.

... or what I will do. Yes, exactly. He is making a lot of presumptions and assumptions based upon his own illogical argument. That's not my logical argument; my logical argument is more encompassing love and truth and therefore I will not take the actions that he thinks I will in the future.

**Mary:** Okay, well that's just a bit about our introduction.

Yes, that's probably the conclusion of our introduction. (Laughter) Thanks.

2. Discussion and questions about "Preclusion"

**Mary:** Okay, now we are going to continue our discussion on how the human soul functions. This is a discussion and some questions about the principle of Preclusion. So Jesus, would you like to read your description of preclusion?

Yes, I think it's good to go over it again. I said that Preclusion is the principle that, if a certain truth on a given subject is within the soul, it precludes error on the same subject from existing in the soul at the same time, and if error exists within the soul, it precludes truth on the same subject from existing within the soul at the same time.

Basically this understanding of preclusion helps the individual understand and accept the current state or condition of their own soul development in contrast to their current state of their mind. For example, this can demonstrate to the individual that the true state of their soul is that the truth on the subject has yet to enter, even when they believe it has entered. This can also explain to the person why they are still finding it difficult to act in harmony with the truth they have believed themselves to have already accepted, because it is not yet in the soul. The soul does not operate like the mind with regard to the existence of truth. With the mind, truth and error are capable of existing in the mind at the same time on the same subject. Thoughts can be experienced either from the external environment or coming from the operations of the soul that can be in complete disharmony with one another in the mind. Basically what preclusion is saying is that it's helping us to describe the condition of our soul right at this snapshot in time.

**Mary:** That's how I view it, like a snapshot, "This is how it is."

Yes, so it's basically saying that the reason why we aren't any further developed than what we currently are, is that the truth that we thought had entered us, never entered us. (Laughs) And the error that we thought had left us hasn't left us yet and that's why we're in the state that we are currently in. Preclusion says that while all the error remains the truth can't enter either and while, if any truth remains, then the error can never come back into it again, in the soul that is. The soul itself has this beautiful ability to not absorb error ... the mind can of course, but the soul can't, once truth is there.

**Mary:** Yes, and what I like about, or how I kind of visualise that, is that you've got a container and if part of it is occupied by error then truth cannot occupy it ... nothing else can occupy that space until you make space for it, and same goes with the truth. If truth is occupying that space about that particular issue then error can't exist there at the same time either.

Not in the soul itself.

**Mary:** Not in the soul itself and that is ...

It can exist in our intellect or our mind, because the mind just a part of the soul, it's not the soul itself; it's just an organ of the soul. It can exist in our brain, of our spirit or physical bodies.

**Mary:** I find that a little sort of ...

For a reincarnated person, or let's not call it reincarnated, a person who has visited the earth for a second time, that is the difficult thing, because the soul contains all this truth that the mind is unwilling to express.

**Mary:** Yes, I find it hard to relate to having a mind in my soul that can hold error and truth within it because to me the soul just has truth or error.

No, I am saying that the mind is in the spirit body. The mind in this case is the intellectual thoughts that are contained within the spirit form, which is completely independent to the soul's mind.

**Mary:** Okay, so let's differentiate that, because at one point in this discussion you said that the mind is like an organ of the soul.

The mind is an organ of the soul.

**Mary:** Yes, but for the purposes of clarity, because you just ...

Now I am talking about the truth about the mind, whereas sometimes we're talking about the error about the mind and what everybody normally believes. We've got to differentiate between these two things. The truth about the mind is that it is an organ of the soul and it is impossible for that mind to contain anything other than what the soul dictates. That's the truth about that mind. But the intellectual mind is capable of reasoning in the spirit body; that's a part of the function of the brain of the spirit body, and that particular brain is capable of having thoughts that are completely out of harmony with the mind of the soul. (Laughs)

**Mary:** That is where I think I come a bit undone, because we've got two minds and to me there is no mind, there is a part of my soul that reasons but it's totally based on my emotions, my aspirations, my desires, those things.

Yes. For the sake of simplification we could say that the soul has a functioning that is completely independent of intellect, whereas the spirit body's mind does have its own intellect and is able to express and absorb information independent of the soul.

**Mary:** And so for the purposes of defining Preclusion we are saying that anywhere within the soul ...

Anything within the soul.

**Mary:** Or in any space within the soul, if there is error occupying that space, truth cannot be there. If there is truth, error cannot be there.

Correct. Let's give an example perhaps. If right at this moment in time I have a poor sense of my own worth, if that is true, then I am not able to think my way into having worth. I must first release the reasons why I have poor sense of my own worth from my soul, and then that part of the soul is able to absorb a sense of worth. That's independent of whether I think I 'm worth something or not.

**Mary:** Yes, and this is where I wanted to contrast. There is a reasoning part of our soul that is either in truth or error and it can't have conflicting things, and then we have our spirit body and our physical body's brain and mind and this is the part of us that might attempt to think our way ...

... through something ...

**Mary:** ... through into having more self-worth.

Correct, but it will be unsuccessful. It will always be unsuccessful, and this is the reason why most religion forms on the earth are unsuccessful. They all promote love supposedly, and yet most of them have been the cause of most of the wars that we have ever experienced in the last two thousand years. The reason is that love hasn't touched the soul yet; it's just an intellectual concept and many of them even say that. They even say that love is an intellectual concept, and while it remains an intellectual concept for them it is never going to touch their heart, as the saying goes, or their soul, and as a result they will never act lovingly given certain circumstances. They will be willing to go to war under certain circumstances. If the circumstance is, "'You killed my son,' then I will go to war." If the circumstance is, "'You believe something different to me,' then I'll go to war." And they will go to war, without consideration of love because love has not yet touched their soul. It's only an intellectual concept, and that's the problem. They have other feelings inside of their soul, which are true. They have feelings of rage and feelings about a person with a different religious faith, for example, or they have feelings of rage about someone who has harmed their family. It is those feelings that are the truth, that govern their action, and if you look at what their action is, they'll go to war. They are governed by the rageful feelings within their soul, the justifications that are truly going on within their soul. They might think that they are a nice person and think they love and think they are a nice kind individual that would never consider harming another and in their day-to-day normal life they might act that way, but when it comes to a pressure cooker situation where their family or somebody's religious faith is being attacked, now they revert back to the soul's true understanding, which is, "I'm enraged with the person having that idea, so I am going to kill them." And that's their understanding. There's an example of how the mind thinking that they're loving has no effect on them whatsoever, no effect.

**Mary:** In your notes you've said this principle of Preclusion helps us to understand why we still think, act and feel the way we do even after we have received something different in our intellect.

Correct. All we've done is heard it and it's gone into our memory. That's all we've done, and while that is actually a memory of the event, it hasn't entered our soul and changed it; it's only a memory of what we've heard. So when somebody tells you "God is Love," for most people that is just a memory of what they have heard; the majority of people on this planet do not believe it. Their soul acts totally differently, (laughs) and the same goes with most of our other belief systems. We have only heard them; we are yet to actually have them as a true belief within our soul.

**Mary:** And much work that many of us have done in natural love circles or even in psychological practice has been a lot about trying to think our way into a different state, and this principle says that that is impossible.

It is impossible, it is impossible. There are people who have thought themselves out of a state for two thousand years, but as soon as you have a chat to them they revert straight back to the same behaviours they would have, under the circumstances.

**Mary:** And that is because that emotion still exists in their soul.

Correct. While the emotion governing the action still exists within the soul, or the emotion precluding the action still exists within the soul, you're going to revert to that behaviour. There is no other option in fact, and it's a great thing actually, because that's the way we learn what's really there. For example, if you're walking down the street or driving in a car and somebody cuts you off or pushes you, and you get angry and upset, there's an example that love hasn't touched your soul yet on that issue. It hasn't touched your soul yet because your reaction is telling you that it hasn't touched your soul. You can think yourself beyond that, but that initial reaction is the reaction that your soul has and that's the truth of what's really going on in your soul. Preclusion's telling you that it's impossible for you to actually put another truth in there, unless you release the error of that emotion. Unless you release that error no other truth can actually enter you. You can think your way, "I'm a loving person. I'm a loving person now, I'm going to do loving things now," and ten years later someone pushes you and you'll get angry again (laughs) because nothing has changed in your soul. For you not to be angry under that circumstance, something has to change in your soul first.

**Mary:** Yes, okay. Is that all you would like to say on Preclusion today?

Yes. I think we've discussed the issues of how when you believe something inside of yourself it prevents another belief from entering you, no matter how much you think your way through it. This is why there's a lot of confusion regarding religion on the planet, because there is a rule book in most religions. "You must this," or commandments you can call them. "You must do this, you must do that, you must do this, and you must do that." Most people practise those particular things but they don't feel them. As a result they still feel like not practising them and sooner or later they do that, they disobey and then they feel all guilty and then they have to feel sorry and they have to pray to God for repentance for feeling sorry that they didn't act in a certain way. And it's all happening because the thing that caused it is still in their soul, and until it comes out they are precluded from change. Their condition is going to continue to be exactly what it is right now, until something gets released from their soul so that something new can enter it.

**Mary:** Okay, well we're going to move on in a minute to talk about the next principle, but these two principles, Preclusion and our next one is Absorption, and perhaps after we have talked about Absorption we can delineate between the two because I feel that there is scope for a bit of ...

If at the moment in Preclusion we basically say that Preclusion is this aspect of, "What is my current condition, why is it my current condition? It's my current condition because there are things in my soul that preclude me from changing." In the case of other examples that we could give, any person who desires change and who is not changing has a reason for them not changing in their soul. What they need to do is find that reason. Once they find that reason then they will change, and Preclusion is telling you that this has to be the case because change is an automatic result of you are finding the reason and releasing it from your soul. This is why I find a lot of people who use their intellect to follow Divine Truth are not very successful and the reason is that they're trying by using their mind to act in certain way, a changed way, while at the same time their soul is saying, "Don't do that, don't do that, do something else." The soul is really saying, "Don't do that, that's wrong." Even though their mind is saying, "It's right," their soul is saying, "Don't do that. It's wrong."

Put a person in a situation where their child is harmed by another person. The average person will revert to rage; the average person will revert to trying to protect the child through violence. Why is that? Because that feeling is still in their soul. For change to happen, that feeling has to come out of their soul, and that's what Preclusion is. Preclusion is, while you have this feeling in your soul, nothing can change. That is your condition and it will be your condition for as long as you retain that condition in your soul. It's going to stay like that forever potentially. Of course that is probably not possible. Given an infinite amount of time, sooner or later somebody realises, "Maybe I need to change." (Laughs) But in practice you can take many thousands of years to change on a single issue if you don't understand that the reason why you are not changing is that you have a belief in your soul that you are unwilling to change.

That basically concludes our discussion about preclusion. (Laughter)

3. Discussion and questions about "Absorption"

**Mary:** This is a continuation of our discussion on how the human soul functions and we're up to principle number two. This will be a discussion and questions about the principle of Absorption. So darling, (laughter) tell us about Absorption.

Well shall we read my comments first? Then we can have a discussion about some of the questions we might have. So, "Absorption is the principle that truth cannot be absorbed by the soul or flow into the soul on a given subject while error existing within the soul precludes the absorption of the truth. And error cannot be absorbed by the soul or flow into the soul on a given subject while truth is present and precludes the absorption of error," so it applies for both error and truth. If I have truth in my soul and it is really in my soul and I have a developed intellect, this error cannot flow into my soul after that point. Of course it depends on my having a developed intellect and of course for most people who have developed truth in a certain area, that would be the case. There are certain circumstances where it is not, but it doesn't apply to most of humanity.

It says, "This understanding of absorption helps the individual understand and reflect upon the process of change, or the change of state or condition as it affects the soul. That is, for the truth to enter the soul, error must first be released from the soul or not already be present. For error to enter the soul, truth must first either be relinquished or not already be present within the soul." What we are basically saying there is that the only way the soul can change is by understanding the principle of Absorption. That is, I can only absorb the new thing if the old thing's gone (laughs); that's the only way I can do it. Or it wasn't there in the first place, so in the case of a child or a little baby, because they are a new incarnation on the earth there are a lot of things that are not there already in terms of the understanding of truth. It's quite easy for that child to absorb the error, and this is why it's such an important role being a parent. We've got to be very careful with what we do as a parent because anything that we present to the child that is actually an error from God's perspective will be absorbed by that soul, automatically, because there is nothing to prevent that soul from absorbing it.

They're like an open book. I think there was a quote of a priest or someone who said once, "If you give me a child before the age of seven, I can make him into my..." Christian faith I forget which faith it was, "... I can make him into that faith," and the reason is that that child is going to absorb all of the error or truth that the person who is teaching them has, over a period of time. It is not an intellectual absorption; it is a soul-based emotional absorption of that information.

"If an individual has heard what they believe is the truth and believes they have accepted such truth but is also aware that the soul contains beliefs and emotions that are in disharmony with that truth and they often act upon those disharmonious emotions, then this is proof that the truth heard has really yet to enter the soul and cause change to the soul. It therefore only exists as a belief..." and I wouldn't even say 'a belief,' "... it only exists as a thought or a memory in their own mind." That's all it is.

**Mary:** Yes. In the previous discussion we were talking about Preclusion and this is where these two marry so much isn't it, because when error has entered us, or truth has entered us, then it precludes anything else entering us on that same topic.

Correct.

**Mary:** This principle of absorption is about how we go about change, how it happens. I like what you said there, that many people believe that they have accepted a new truth when the error is still dictating, or the previous emotional belief is still dictating, how they act and what happens in their life and how they feel and how they respond and all these things.

You see this, like, honestly when you look at the average person on earth in their day-to-day life, you see it in every moment of their day-to-day life pretty much. The average person who believes they're loving is often not very loving in almost a moment-by-moment time frame and that's quite sad. It's because they believe they're loving while at the same time acting upon all these unloving emotions that are within them that they're unwilling to release. In the end, God can't change what we're unwilling to release. God can only have an effect of change when we're willing to go through a process of release, and this is also part of what we need to learn. That is that many people believe that just because they have a new thought they've gone through the process, and they haven't. That's why they haven't changed. True change can only happen when you go through the change by releasing the emotional causal error that precludes the truth from entering. Once you do that you can absorb a new truth.

**Mary:** This principle really strikes to the heart of what you are talking to people about in lectures all of the time. You are saying that there is a situation in your soul right now as it exists and the only way for it to change and for you to change permanently is for you to engage this principle called Absorption, which is to create a situation in your soul where absorption of truth is possible and that's only possible if other things get moving. (Laughs)

If you're willing to release the error, yes.

**Mary:** I think about Preclusion being the snapshot in time, the rock-hard cement that is there now, but Absorption is the principle where everything can get moving again. We can un-constipate our soul and let things out so that new things can come in.

Correct. Absorption is about allowing the change. How do I allow the change? How do I sincerely change? If you understand Absorption you understand that it's pointless trying to change with your intellect. You give that up in fact. You give up trying to change things externally and you focus all of your attention to changing your soul, changing how your soul loves, in particular. Remember that progression is all about love, so it's about changing how your soul loves, and that means getting rid of the unloving feelings inside of the soul and releasing them so that your soul is capable of becoming more loving. That's how change occurs.

**Mary:** It's really sad isn't it, that just about all of us have been taught to honour the mind and to present a facade. In that way we just try to change the facade and change the thoughts without really focusing on, "What do I really feel about this topic?" Many of us are terrified to even discover what we feel on many topics, aren't we, and yet until we do we can't engage this principle of Absorption.

That's right. When we look at the other principles of Resistance, Suppression and so forth, we can see that a lot of time it's things like judgement in particular that causes us to engage our will to stop the release of certain emotions. There are certain feelings that we have inside of ourselves that we're not too happy that are even there. Even we're not happy they're there; we know they're there but we're not happy they're there, but we're very, very unwilling to face that they're there, feel them and release them. As a result we don't change. All we try to do is we try to force our action to be a certain thing. Usually when we force our action to be a certain thing without naturally changing, we become very harsh on ourselves and hard. That's when people become very religiously hard and religiously harsh, and become what you'd classify as, what is it, a strong, staunch ...

**Mary:** Orthodox or even evangelical or...

Well I'd go even further... become militant, in their actions; because they've had to become so hard on themselves, so hard on themselves trying to keep themselves in line that now they want to do the same to everybody else. That is a very dangerous condition because that justifies a lot of violence on the planet. A lot of violence on the planet is justified through that condition.

**Mary:** Sad, isn't it.

Yes, it is sad.

The principle of Absorption is all about the release of the soul's current condition to a new condition. Basically that's what it is. We can't obtain the new condition until the current condition is changed in some way through an emotional process, through a soul-based process. It is going to be quite traumatic generally because the soul-based beliefs are firmly entrenched as feelings and belief systems within us and they are going to have to be worked through with a diligent effort on our part. This is where I find most people are unwilling to engage a diligent effort to discover and release the really true feelings that they have.

**Mary:** Yes, and I understand why you presented these principles in the way that you have, in that first we must understand Preclusion. We must understand that if it's there within us, nothing else can enter us. We have to be brave enough, as you just said, to discover what is within us before we can engage with the second principle which is, to start relieving ourselves from what's in us so that new things can be absorbed.

So that our soul can change, so our soul can progress, because true progression is not capable without the soul releasing the things that prevent our progression. I find it quite sad that people don't get these basic principles because you can teach aspects of Divine Truth for years and years and years and if a person doesn't get these basic principles of how the soul operates then basically it's like talking to the air. The person has no positive response to the Divine Truth, and then they become downhearted and disappointed and disillusioned and usually grumpy and angry with the person trying to teach them rather than being more honest about why they have such a strong desire to suppress the underlying emotions which are causing their stagnation. That's where most people run into a lot of difficulty with Divine Truth.

**Mary:** Let's talk more about the difficulties that people face with Divine Truth.

Sure, with regard to this process with Absorption.

**Mary:** With regard to this process, because what I observe, and I've even observed this in myself in the past, is a desire to falsify our progress even to ourselves.

Yes, like maintaining a position about us that far exceeds our true development. (Laughter)

**Mary:** I seem to have both ends of the spectrum problems. In the past I had ...

It was also lower or higher.

**Mary:** Yes I wanted to believe it was better. Now I have problems seeing with clarity about the progress I have made. This is the way that I see a lot of people avoiding the truth of where they're at and the truth of Absorption. They seem to avoid this knowledge, what you've been saying that change really isn't possible until causal emotion flows. What I see people do is attach a lot of importance to emotion, but not causal emotion, and so then I observe people trying to be emotional. (Laughter)

When they don't feel like being that.

**Mary:** Yes, okay maybe I should say before then, I should say, I see people trying to say they have changed when they haven't been emotional.

Also they haven't changed, and it is quite obvious to the observer that they haven't changed.

**Mary:** Their life hasn't changed; their outward demeanour hasn't changed their feelings of joy, peace, satisfaction, none of that has changed.

They might have changed location or they might have changed partner or they might have changed something physical in their life but their actual feelings haven't changed, on those issues.

**Mary:** Yes, but a lot of us feel like, "But I know stuff here," (Mary touches her head, Jesus laughs), "and I think it might have even, when I heard it felt a little bit nice or a little bit excited or a little bit sad." But there hasn't been a huge outpouring ...

Transition.

**Mary:**... of emotion from me, but I want to believe I've changed.

And you want to believe you know it as well, which is sad.

**Mary:** It is sad isn't it and many of us can tell ourselves we know it because we can reel it off or speak it or ...

Yes, that's just the memory at work. It's just like, you give a child a whole series of exercises, you drum it into the child often enough, it'll remember it. It doesn't mean the child feels any different. (Laughs) It's like, if the child wants to steal out of your purse, he's going to steal out of your purse whether or not you tell him a hundred times he is going to be punished for it; if he wants to do it he'll do it. In the end it's only if something changes within his soul that he will actually stop stealing. We often think that we can browbeat ourselves and others into submission and while we may change their actions, the soul won't progress because the soul won't change, and they'll often feel even more resistive to what we're trying to share with them than less.

**Mary:** Yes. And I can see that we do that because there are certain emotions within us already, which is the principle of Preclusion, about fear of failing, fear of being rejected, fear of making mistakes, judgement of emotions all of these things that then drive us to feel like we want to believe we've changed when we haven't. We haven't engaged the principle of Absorption.

Correct. All of those emotions you listed preclude us from actually changing (laughter) and that's the sad thing. Because we're unwilling to feel them we're actually precluded from changing. We're absorbing more and more intellectual memories, words being spoken and remembered, but it has no effect on our entire life. We still get sick, we still grow old, we still die, we still act in unloving ways to our partner, our family, our children, our friends, we still treat the environment badly and all those other things, and we do it all because nothing's really changed in our soul.

**Mary:** Yes, it's a big issue. The other thing that I started to speak about earlier was where people attach importance to emotion, rather than understanding that they need to feel the emotion surrounding the error that exists within them.

Correct.

**Mary:** I do see people go into emotion which is actually them justifying the error that is within them.

Or rebelling.

**Mary:** Or rebelling against the emotion.

Against the truth.

**Mary:** Yes, against the truth, or feeling like, "It's not fair. I am not getting what I want - it's not fair that this is happening, it's not fair I'm not being loved," and all of these things when actually they're avoiding the error-based belief that's within them.

Yes. They're not actually feeling the casual emotional error; what they are feeling is their rebellion, rebellion against the truth or their justification of the error. That's what they're really feeling, and of course no change can occur when you do that. (Laughs)

**Mary:** That's the thing. We are not engaging this principle of absorption when we do that. It's not about tears; it's about whether we're willing to emotionally feel the errors that are within the soul, isn't it?

Yes. Some of those errors may be rage and some of them might be shame and some of them might be fear and like, there are all sorts of emotions that will be attached to belief systems. We might even be enraged about the concept of having to be loving, and that is an error that keeps our soul in a place where we're unwilling to be loving no matter how much love we receive. That is obviously going to prevent our soul from progression. We've got all of these things going on for most of us and we're not honest about it. This is where truth is so important, with the human soul. Without truth, the human soul cannot progress. That's why it's the truth that sets you free because it's the truth that opens your soul to understanding what's in it, and it's only by understanding what's in it and releasing what's in it, that you can change. This is where you have to be very honest and truthful about what's really there. If you're really angry with your Dad, you're really angry with your Dad and it doesn't matter how much you make out you're not angry with Dad, you are really angry with your Dad. While that anger exists there are certain things that it's going to preclude from the absorption of truth.

**Mary:** Yes, and this is such a big area of self-reflection, self-honesty. I have, and I have observed other people, they try to engage with this process... if we think about it, in terms of Preclusion and Absorption, when we live in facade in our mind we can think, "Oh I love men, I am so ready for my soulmate to come along."

Yes, and we've heard that many hundreds of times haven't we? (Laughter)

**Mary:** Yes we have. When we are in this state we think to ourselves, "Okay, to engage with Preclusion, I then believe that what's inside of my soul is a lovely feeling towards men and I desire my soulmate" That's what really exists in my soul." Then such a woman might have an interaction with a man and her real emotions towards men are not actually what she thinks but she's living in facade in her mind and she believes that. Through the interaction with that man, he decides he doesn't want to have a relationship with her, and then she thinks, "Okay, Absorption. This is about my Daddy not loving me. I need to cry that I'm rejected," and so they think they are engaging with these processes but in reality, if they were to be more honest with themselves, they might find that what is precluding the soulmate relationship if you like, or love with their soulmate, is actually a feeling of rage and desire for control and demand upon men. That's the real thing that they need to feel about. When they engage the process of Absorption they will begin to feel about those things, not tell themselves ...

Correct. And their life will change.

**Mary:** Yes.

This is the thing I feel about Absorption: the proof of whether you've done it is if your life naturally changes without you trying. (Laughter) That's the proof of if you've done it. If your life doesn't naturally change without you trying, then it means you haven't done it, (laughs) and you need to go and find another thing because you're not working on the thing that's actually the problem.

**Mary:** Yes, exactly, exactly. This is where I get very passionate about honesty, self-honesty, because I know what it's like to live in facade and to live in your mind, telling yourself and trying to process and engage this absorption principle. Nothing changes and you just feel demoralised.

Yes and that's good. (Laughter)

**Mary:** I agree. Because it's telling you...

... you should be demoralised; you're doing the wrong thing.

**Mary:** You haven't even yet engaged Preclusion; you're not even looking at the snapshot that's there.

Exactly, so that way we get to say, "Ah well, the fact that it didn't work means that I did the wrong thing."

**Mary:** Yes.

Remember, the soul's fool proof. If we did the right thing we would have changed. If we've done the wrong thing we've not changed. If there's no change, we've obviously done the wrong thing.

**Mary:** And were going to feel awesome even just connecting to the truth of what's, maybe not awesome but there is a feeling that comes with the recognition of truth.

Well I suppose you can say, the reality is that we'll feel pain when emotional error releases, we'll feel pleasure when the emotional truth enters and this is the beautiful thing about the way God's designed the soul. When emotional truth enters the soul we feel the pleasure that comes from knowing this truth now, and when the emotional error releases from the soul we feel the terrible pain associated with the error. That's how it releases in fact. By feeling the pain associated with the error, it releases the error. We can't go through a process without feeling something and we've got to be aware of that.

**Mary:** Yes. Okay, is there more that you'd like to say on the principle of Absorption?

No I think that the main thing is this principle that if there is no change, then it means I haven't found the truth yet, in my soul. I might have thought the truth but I haven't found the truth. I don't know it yet. We've got to stop telling ourselves that we know things that we're yet to change on. We don't know them; we have only heard them, that's all. Our memory is recalling them, we've heard them. They've gone in our ear and into our memory but nothing else has happened yet, and until the soul actually engages this process of Absorption, nothing will happen. (Laughter)

Nothing will happen and then five years later we go, "Oh, isn't it terrible. I've been on the Divine Truth path for five years," or whatever, "I've done this and I've done that, and nothing's worked." Well nothing's worked because you haven't engaged the process from a soul-based perspective. You've only heard things; you've only remembered things, regurgitated things you remembered. No real change has occurred in your soul. You're still stopping that from happening because if you are really engaging the change, your soul would have had to release a whole heap of error-based things, you'd be crying here and feeling ashamed about that there, and feeling angry about this here and feeling sad and fearful about that there. You'd be going through all this emotional stuff and it will all be related to causal emotion and not to your rebellion, not to your desire to justify your current position.

Once that happens, real change will occur naturally and you won't even have to try to change, it will just happen. It will just happen around you; it's magical. (Laughs) If we can remind people of that with this principle then at least people know that when things are not working, there must be something going wrong with their understanding of what is going on inside of themselves.

**Mary:** Yes, and just encourage people towards this true deep honesty with self.

Self-reflection that's really based on God's Truth, not on your own opinion. To actually have self-reflection based on God's Truth is very, very different to having self-reflection based on your own opinion, because most people who self-reflect based on their own opinion, think that everything that they currently think is true. (Laughs) Whereas once we start having some self-reflection about God's position and opinion, now we start to see that many of the things we believe are false, actually, and that's when we have the opportunity to change.

**Mary:** Fantastic, thank you.

4. The principle of "Dominance"

**Mary:** Okay, well this is part four of our discussion about how the Human Soul functions, and in this part of the discussion we're going to talk about the principle of Dominance. So over to you my love.

No worries. Well, let's first read the basic principle. "Dominance is the principle that the soul dominates the mind and has full control over the mind, whether the mind believes itself to be in control or not." (Laughter) "The mind is not capable of ever having full control of the soul and the soul will always at some point in our future exercise its dominance since that is the purpose of its own creation. Since the soul is emotions, sentiment, desire, passion, longing, aspiration, feelings, sensory, fervour, excitement and other similar attributes and characteristics, and not dominantly intellectual or mental, and the mind is just one single attribute or organ of the soul, it is impossible for the truth to enter the soul without being accompanied by emotional feelings in addition to logical thought. In addition, it is also impossible for error to enter or leave the soul without emotional feelings."

**Mary:** Yes, so again it feels like we're building on things we've talked about in previous parts. We talked about Absorption, how error must leave for truth to enter and vice versa, though it's unlikely that truth would leave.

Sometimes it happens where truth leaves and error ... like you see it happen when people go through traumatic events and they become very angry and upset, and sometimes as a result of that they let go of the truth they've always held onto all their life emotionally and through other emotions entering them they absorb an error. Unfortunately that does happen. It is quite an emotionally tumultuous process of course but it does happen and this is how many people in the human race became in the condition that they currently are, through that event happening in their life.

**Mary:** Yes, it's sad isn't it?

Yes it is.

**Mary:** So this dominance is saying to us then, from what you've said, that the soul is always in charge. It's always the thing that is dominating experience and thought and all things. Also in there you said that emotional feelings and logical thought always accompany truth.

Correct, yes. What I am basically saying in this principle, and remember it's a principle, is that if we understand that the soul dominates everything then we become more soul-centric rather than intellectual-centric. What I mean by that is that we focus more on what's within our soul than thinking things in our mind, so we're more concerned about what's really going on within our feelings and our emotions and our desires and our passions and our longings; that's what we're concerned with. You can understand that that's the reason we should be concerned with those things because that's what is all about love.

What we love and what are our loves will determine our actions to a large extent. If we love doing things that are destructive and evil then of course our soul will degrade in its condition. If we love doing things that are good and upright then our soul will grow in its condition, but our soul is always going to control what we eventually do. No matter how much intellectual control we attempt to exercise, our soul will always exercise or attempt to exercise its dominance. Even with people who are intellectually dominant, the soul is really far more dominant and far more controlling than they realise. They often do many things that they look back on and go, "Why did I do that? I don't believe that, I don't think that." But their soul is pushing them along in a certain direction and this is why sometimes people get confused. For example, they think they have grown up with a religious faith all of their life, they believe in love, they believe that love is the answer to all things and yet they are unloving. (Laughter)

The reason why is that there are emotions in their soul that are exercising dominance all the time, trying to show them that actually there's a problem in the soul, not in the mind. Forget about problem in the mind; the problem's not there. The problem is in the soul and the soul will do what the soul desires to do unless you work through why it has these desires. That's a fact. So you could say then, that the soul is the true self. The soul is the true self and whatever we think is our true self may or may not be our true self depending on how much we are connected to our soul, to our feelings and our emotions and our desires and our passions. That is going to be the real self.

**Mary:** Yes. Something that struck me in feeling about this principle, which could be good news (laughter) depending on how you come at it, is that effort will always be required to suppress the soul. Some of us, who don't want to welcome our soul, feel that that is bad thing. "I am always going to have to try." But actually if we look at it from Gods perspective, that's a wonderful thing isn't it? Because the thing that is our true self and the thing that is dictating all of our experiences and creating our attractions, this thing is very hard to dominate. In fact it dominates.

Yes. God made it that way. Like, God made it fool proof and God made it that way so that eventually we'd realise, "Something else is going on here. No matter how much I use my intellect I still can't seem to change in my soul's progression with regard to love, what's going on? There must be something in my soul, something in some other location other than my mind that's causing me to want to take these actions and I need to find it. I need to discover it; I need to release it, if I am ever going to become more loving."

**Mary:** This is a sad thing as well I feel, about the state of the world. It is that many people have given up on the idea that change is possible. Many people actually believe, "Well, the person is the person that they are from seven years on, that's it, it's done and dusted."

And for the majority of people that is true.

**Mary:** That's right; many people believe that, because there's very little engagement with these principles in day-to-day life.

Yes. Most people have no awareness of how the soul can truly change and as such many people have a belief that you can't really change. "You can't really change," is what they really believe. They feel that any change would have to be forced upon the soul, and of course that's what they'd attempt to do through their intellect, rather than understanding that it's only because of the error in the soul that needs to be released that no change is happening. That is the true cause of no change.

**Mary:** Okay. So moving on to just some other points that I thought were relevant: We've talked a lot in our other discussions about how much we want to use this mind of our spirit body, to develop that rather than our soul but in this case the mind is often used as a tool of denial to suppress the true feelings of the soul, rather than as a processer and an investigator that can help us to discover the soul and what the soul's dominance is all about.

Yes, I think it would've been about eight or nine years ago now, I wrote a paper I suppose you would call it, a letter to some people about using the mind differently. Most people really struggle to use their mind differently to how they've been educated to do from their childhood onwards. See, most people have been taught to use their mind as the controller of the soul. This is our main problem. We think that it can control the soul and then we're taught to use our mind to attempt to control the soul. Sometimes it's successful for periods of time but of course it's never going to be eternally successful because the soul is always going to exercise dominance. What happens though, is that we start telling ourselves, "Well, the proper use of our mind is to control everything."

But that's not the proper use of our mind. The proper use of our mind is to seek and discover all emotions inside of our soul and to release those emotions in a way that's loving. That's the proper use of our mind. In other words, if our soul feels like going out and killing someone that's a problem. What we do is we allow ourselves to feel the emotion and feel the reason why it's present, but we use our mind to say, "Don't you go and do that unloving thing; feel this unloving emotion instead." Feel the feeling you feel, that you want to do it. If you truly get to the cause of this feeling you will release it and all of a sudden that feeling will dissipate from you and you will no longer feel that way towards that person. That's the proper way to use the mind.

**Mary:** Yes, to engage the next principle that we'll talk about later, which is about Progression. But it's a very Christian viewpoint that you highlighted isn't it? That we must use the mind to control the animal instincts of the person or the Original Sin that exists within us.

I feel it's in most religions, not just in the Christian faith, yes.

**Mary:** Yes, and yet there is this other great opportunity that we have, that you just pointed out, to actually engage our mind to discover and then to heal things. That's the only way things can change permanently.

Yes. I feel that the majority of people in religious faiths don't understand that basic principle, that permanent change is not possible unless you understand the soul is continuously going to try for dominance and the only way to fix this is to actually release from the soul the error of what it wants to dominate, the error that it wants to take. Now unfortunately in Bible texts and other Holy Scripture texts there are thoughts such as, "The heart is treacherous and who can know it?" That's basically telling you not to trust your soul, and what I am suggesting is, "Trust your soul's feelings; you don't have to act upon them."

There's a difference between feeling the soul's feelings and taking an action upon them. If the feeling of the soul is to go and do something that from God's perspective is obviously unloving, then you would use your mind to help you not take that action, but you would also use your mind to find the reason why you feel that you want to take that action. That's where most religious faiths fall down. They don't use their mind to find the reason, they only use their mind to control or dominate, or attempt to dominate the soul. Of course it's never successful; they always finish up reverting back to that behaviour.

A lot of men, for example, with regard to their desires for looking at a naked woman's body, they revert to pornography. Then in the Christian faith they feel very guilty about the fact that they're looking at pornography or they feel very much like they are sinners and "isn't it terrible." They ask for forgiveness and then the very next week they want to look at pornography again. Now why is that? It's because there's something in the soul that needs to change that causes them to desire to look at pornography all the time and not be focused sexually on their own partner if they have one. As a result of that they focus on feeling all bad and guilty and terrible but not finding the real reason why they feel drawn to pornography. Once you find the real reason why you are drawn to pornography you won't be drawn to it anymore. Then you won't desire to do it, and so you won't have to try to not look. There'll be no desire in you to buy it or to look at it on the internet or any of those things, and then you don't have to feel guilty either (laughter), that you've done it, because you no longer do it.

**Mary:** That's the thing isn't it? The error within the soul is going to try to dominate, well it's designed to dominate our experience, but the longer we live in denial or try to deny, and we use all this effort and we create fear about even feeling and discovering what's in our soul, the more it becomes a problem, doesn't it? It requires more effort, and we have more fear.

The interesting thing that happens ... it's a very interesting thing that goes on ... is that we have to use our mind to think about dominating more and as a result we finish up thinking more about the problem, (laughter) which actually causes a stronger attraction to the problem. So it's quite clever that God made this system that the more you try to dominate your soul with your mind by thinking about the problem and trying to focus on the problem, the more the problem becomes evident. (Laughter)

It's quite clever, and the interesting thing is that if you focus your attention instead on finding the reason why you feel that way in your soul and you release it, you don't have to think about it at all. As a result it is out of your mind and therefore you're not focused on it anymore and so it doesn't come up. (Laughter)

**Mary:** I just had a memory of an episode of Fawlty Towers, and for anyone watching, it's an English comedy show with John Cleese. They have a German person come into the hotel to stay and he says to all the staff "Don't mention the war, don't mention the war", and so obviously he ...

... and all of them want to mention the war all the time. (Laughter)

**Mary:** ... and he ends up mentioning the war and references to the war all the time because he is trying so hard not to.

... not mention it, yes. And that's exactly how we are with the soul. The soul will do what it desires and unless we look at the reason why we're never going to get rid of the cause.

**Mary:** What struck me, I mentioned earlier this terrible effort that we have to put in, and if we think about that on a global scale just about everyone on the earth is trying to suppress and deny what's in their soul. It's like a global, huge waste of energy to me.

Yes. If we had to analyse how much energy the whole human race wastes on trying to change things that are never going to change unless we look at the real reasons why they're there, it's amazing; in fact almost the entire medial profession is focused on changing the effects of things. Look at that entire profession. In any country that's billions and billions and billions of dollars of taxpayers' funds going towards the wrong use of our energy. We're trying to fix the effect rather than fix the cause and that's because we don't understand dominance. We think that fixing the effect does something but it doesn't. It just keeps causing the same problem over and over again because we're not focused on the cause. A person who speeds is going to speed until you fix the reason why he speeds. You can make as many laws as you want; you can fine him as much as you want; he'll still speed, he will. You can throw him in jail and the very next day after he gets out he'll probably speed. (Laughs)

Until you focus on the reason why he does it, you won't change anything and the same applies to people with relationships, cheating on each other, parents abusing children and all of these other aspects of life that cause so much trouble. Unless we focus on what is dominant in the soul and find the reason inside the soul why that happens, no change is ever really going to occur. We'll be like living the same day over and over and over again. It's like that movie Groundhog Day with Bill Murray in it. He's living the same day over and over again trying a different action without finding a change in his soul and it's only when he changed in his soul that something in his day actually finished up really changing. And that's the same with us, like, we need to change our soul so that things can really change and until we do that nothing can change. Globally man has wasted so much money, time, effort, going towards trying to fix, providing solutions to fixing the effects rather than understanding why they occur.

**Mary:** Which is all about the dominance of what's in the soul. I even thought about it just on a person-to-person scale, the emotional energy and the mind power that so many of us are using to suppress and deny the dominance of what's already inside of us. Imagine if we used that energy in different ways.

If we just gave up and surrendered and said, "Okay, I'm like that." (Laughter)

**Mary:** "This is me."

"This is me, and I can see that there are a lot of bad things here now; let's try and find the reason why I feel this way." That would be a much better use of our effort than trying to go, "No I am not like that, no I am not like that. Don't tell me I'm like that," and fighting with everybody who tells you you're like that, trying to control the knowledge that we are like what we are. So it's a very important part, the principle of Dominance I feel. I feel too, that many of us are actually acting in denial of dominance because you look at how many people talk about diet all the time, taking this pill, that pill.

**Mary:** Habits of highly successful people.

Habits of highly ... yes, changing our habits and all of these focuses on the physical body; they're all focused because we don't understand our soul. We don't understand that even how fat our body is, is totally determined by what's going on within our soul and that's driving what we eat. (Laughs) If we could change what's inside the soul we wouldn't need the same things and we wouldn't need to go on diets. We'd slim up straight away. It's the same principle with every single walk of life. When we are focused on the physical all the time, it is proof that we don't understand dominance. It's proof that we don't understand our soul. If you focused on a physical cure or physical solution to your problems, its proof that you're yet to understand this principle, you are yet to understand the principle of dominance.

**Mary:** Also, I feel it's because we've been trained away from trusting our feeling state, and so we feel more comfortable with change, we trust things more, that physical things seem more tangible to us, even than to our own feelings because we've been so trained away from trusting our feelings as children, would you say?

I do also feel though, that a lot of our feelings are not trustworthy (laughter) in a sense that we are often in the superficial part of our feelings rather than in the causal part of our feelings. We talk to people about: there's their true nature and personality, and there's injured nature and personality, and then there's facade nature and personality. Most people live almost totally in their facade nature and personality. That's not their soul. That's the full functioning of their intellect and all of the soul-based damage that's occurred through the hurt part of the soul. Unless we understand these principles and unless we get to the soul cause and somehow get that soul cause out of our soul, every action we take, every physical pill we pop, everything that we do is going to be based upon trying to address effects other than causes.

**Mary:** Yes, perhaps if you will permit me to personalise this yet again.

Sure.

**Mary:** I know for myself when encountering principles like dominance and progression as they truly exist, I have wanted to run from this experience of what is truly in my soul, because as a child that wasn't rewarded, so there's a feeling of wanting to be able... feeling helpless to change things and then feeling that if I change this effect, if I work with this physical thing in my daily life, I even get to avoid feeling how helpless and hopeless I feel about change. That hopelessness is there because there is such a terror of diving into the emotional state because of some things that are precluding, some fears that make me believe that diving into that feeling state is going to create ...

Some kind of terrible thing.

**Mary:** Punishment or withdrawal of love, something terrible, and so I see that I have fought the dominance of my soul, if you like, for that reason.

Yes. The majority of the people on the planet are in an active war with their own soul, because they're taught to be in this active war from the time of their childhood. Their parents are generally in a war with their children's soul so what happens initially when a child is born, the parent starts feeling a lot of the things it doesn't want the child to be. As a result the parent starts forcing stuff into the child and of course this creates a feeling of acceptance of the parent's dominance and that of course makes the child very, very afraid of being able to feel itself and to feel its true nature and personality. As a result, most of us by the time we are in our teenage years, and even in our rebellious teenage years, we still only are willing to go a certain way with pushing the boundaries generally, the average person. Or when we push the boundaries, we're pushing them because we're already angry, which is not a loving emotion coming from our soul anyway, but by that time we've already got a lot of unloving emotions inside of our soul driving our actions to rebel. As a result of that we become so afraid of being our true selves that even when we're alone, we're afraid of being our true selves. It's like the soul is so afraid of what the parents might have done that it now thinks it will happen to them, if they change now as an adult.

**Mary:** Yes and they feel they will experience that, even with no-one else around, that it will be terrible and frightening or whatever.

Often as a result it is terrible and frightening, because that is the belief inside of the soul. That belief was created by the parents who created this particular belief that it's frightening to connect with your true self. "You need to dominate your true self, you need to push it away otherwise God or we will disapprove, we will disapprove of you." That's the implication of most of the parents' actions and if they are of a religious faith the parents probably inculcated that about God feeling this way towards the child. As a result there is a terrible amount of fear inside of the child towards being itself and that's all because we have tried to suppress the soul's dominance.

**Mary:** Yes, and I can see that from both perspectives in terms of the error, a terrible fear of just experiencing the error that exists within, but also ...

So that the preclusion emotion is the fear. The fear is precluding us from working through all that, those feelings.

**Mary:** Yes, I have also experienced that and I think a lot of people experience ... or maybe not, I don't know. I can only speak for myself but in terms of my true nature and personality, which is a part of my soul, which wants to dominate and will eventually dominate, it scares the crap out of me, just being myself and expressing my passions and desires and my love of God.

And that's about the preclusion emotion of not being willing to surrender. (Laughter) So yes, the preclusion emotion of not being willing to surrender causes us to refuse to surrender to our soul's true nature.

**Mary:** Yes, which is going to dominate eventually anyway.

Sooner or later, once we surrender. Sooner or later what happens is that we've expended so much energy not surrendering, fighting and fighting and fighting and fighting most of our life, that eventually we are so exhausted that we surrender. It is far better to surrender much younger if you can, rather than surrendering after just a long battle or war with your own soul.

**Mary:** Yes, and do you feel, why do you feel we resist surrender towards the positive aspects of our nature?

Because we were taught by our parents and by our environment that those things weren't positive. It's quite plain that we've been taught those things. Again, what is God's Truth about the matter? Would God see these things as positive? If our parents believe they're so negative, what's the logical reason why they believe they're so negative; these are the kinds of things we are going to have to resolve in order to eventually allow the soul emotion, which is the preclusion emotion of fear to be released. Once these preclusion emotions of the fear are released then we are open to absorbing some new truths about ourselves and we're also open to acting in harmony with our soul's dominance.

**Mary:** Yes, and it only ends in more pain, trying to suppress the dominance doesn't it?

That's the sad thing. The majority of the pain on the planet is caused by the suppression of the soul's dominance. If the average person allows their soul to dominate they wouldn't be able to go to war, they wouldn't be able to take unloving actions towards their partners or their friends, they would feel terribly guilty if they did, but they wouldn't even take those actions because the soul would have released the emotions as to what causes them to take those actions. Unless we understand dominance and actually live our life in harmony with it... and this requires some courage because not only do we have the courage to release the reasons, the negative emotions, the fear-based emotions as to why we are not allowing our soul to dominate, we have to have the courage to allow our soul to dominate even if in the future other people may attack us for such allowance. There are all sorts of people up there who want to suppress you. There are all sorts of people who want you to be a different person than you really are.

God's not like that. God wants you to be who you truly are, not what your errors dictate you are, but rather who you truly are and that means you discovering your true nature and personality and having the courage to live it, and that's where I see a lot of people struggling. They discover some parts of their true nature but they don't let themselves have the courage to live it. They don't allow themselves to go through the fears that cause them to not be able to live it, and so preclusion precludes them from being their true self. And that's pretty sad.

**Mary:** It is, isn't it? Imagine a world where kids are taught from when they're born that the soul has dominance and that this can be very empowering and they can learn so much by allowing the soul to dominate.

Yes, and that their pure personality is something to be honoured...

**Mary:** And treasured.

... and treasured, not something to be broken and pushed into a mould.

**Mary:** Made into, conformed to a certain set of standards.

A lot of people on this planet believe that conformity is the only way to engage Law, and that is so wrong. The Law of Love does not demand conformity, it demands love. Love is the way to have a peaceful environment, not conformity. This is something that we still need to learn on the planet, that it's only love that can actually develop true peace. Conformity doesn't develop peace and we have a lot of evidence of that both in our personal societies, in each individual country, but also in the world as a whole. We can see that many times we conform, we compromise, but it doesn't create peace, it doesn't create peace at all. When we love it creates peace. That's the only thing that's going to create peace, and love comes from the soul, so the soul is going to have to change and be dominant in order to love.

**Mary:** Perhaps we should wrap up our discussion of dominance there, because the next discussion is about progression, which is all about how we can do that.

And how we engage all of the principles we've learnt so far, yes, good.

5. Discussion and questions about "Progression"

**Mary:** We're continuing our discussion of how the human soul functions and we are up to the principle of Progression. I am with Jesus and we're going to discuss and have some questions about the principle of Progression.

Good, again shall I read the general principle?

**Mary:** Yes please.

"Progression is the principle that true progression within the soul can only be obtained through an emotional process that will involve both pain associated with emotions related to error and pleasure associated with emotions related to truth. If the soul denies either pain or pleasure or uses its mind to deny pain or pleasure, progression cannot occur. One immediate and permanent characteristic or indication that truth has entered the soul is that it must have been an emotional process. (Laughter) It also fundamentally suggests that one characteristic of the release or acceptance of error in the soul is that it must also be an emotional process." In other words, truth being accepted is an emotional process and error being released is an emotional process. You can't intellectualise yourself out of your belief, at all, ever, never, ever. (Laughter)

**Mary:** And progress is always, always, always emotional and there is no other way to progress, otherwise we're still with the dominance of what's already existing within the soul, because the only way for things to leave the soul is through this emotional process.

Yes. It's such an important truth to understand I feel, that most of the people who have been listening for five to six years have still not got much understanding of, this process where we need to understand that we need to allow pain and pleasure.

On the planet today the majority of people are so addicted to pleasure that they cannot allow any pain, and the problem with that is that the soul is often full of pain from our childhoods, from our environment and we don't allow the expression of it, so what happens is that the pain levels inside of our soul build up, build up, build up, build up; they reach traumatic levels because we don't ever allow their release. As a result, many times our whole life becomes quite traumatic. We're not allowing the release of these painful emotions because we're addicted to the concept that we shouldn't have to feel them, but they are inside of us and only we can feel them. This is a problem that I see most people face. They don't understand that unless you allow these painful emotions to be experienced, which means going through some painful feelings, you are not going to progress. No real progress can occur and you can tell yourself... there are even people now channelling differently, or telling... Every time I teach this concept people are so challenged they want to run off to a spirit who tells them something different. They don't understand that this is the only way you can truly progress, by allowing yourself to feel both your painful and pleasurable emotions.

**Mary:** I don't know Baby, how you can say it more clearly or more definitely. I do know that there comes a point in your progression, it's at the start of your progression really, where you realise emotionally the truth of what you've just stated, where you say ...

Where you give up trying for it to be something different. (Laughter)

**Mary:** You give up just holding in the back of your mind, "Hopefully, maybe it could have been, it's still something isn't it that intellectual, that shift I made ..."

"Maybe there's a different way, there surely has to be a different way," this is what we are constantly focused on.

**Mary:** Stop looking for proof of other. There comes a point where you emotionally realise - you're emotional when you do realise it - where you emotionally realise, "Unless I am emotional, unless emotion is flowing from me, nothing will change permanently in my life."

That's right. It's such a critical point in a person's progression for that realisation to actually occur, and so many people arrogantly assume that, that is not the case, and it doesn't matter how much you talk to them about it, in fact most of the people who are not progressing, doesn't matter how much I have said that to them, they still do not believe it. And this is why... Since April 2014, for anybody listening to this at the moment, we've recently begun some discussion about emotions and the importance of emotions, the importance of feeling emotions, because without people truly getting that principle, no change is possible.

Love is an emotion, like, no matter what anybody tells you, it's an emotion. It's not a thought, it's an emotion; it's a feeling within you that drives your actions. When you love something - you aren't backward in coming forward when you love something; when you truly love it drives you into action.

See, love's this beautiful motivating emotion and any changes in our love state are going to have to be emotional. They're going to have to be because love itself is an emotion and we're not going to change if we try to convince ourselves differently. I've talked about that for years and years now and the average person coming to the seminars still does not believe that. They still believe they can intellectually adjust their life, intellectually adjust their health, intellectually adjust their relationships and so forth, without having to feel an emotion about it, in particular without having to feel a painful emotion. We are so addicted to only having pleasurable emotions that we are scared, we're petrified of pain, and the problem with a person who is petrified of pain is that they'll do anything, including causing pain to others, to prevent their own pain.

And this is a very sad state of affairs. When we are willing to do anything to prevent our own pain, we are willing to go to war, we are willing to rape, murder, pillage, we are willing to lie, steal, cheat, we are willing to do anything in that state to prevent the experience of our own pain, that is a very dangerous state. Actually, it's the one of the main dangers on this planet. The level of violence that appears on this planet is almost all directly the result of a person's individual desire to avoid their own pain. It's just such a sad state of affairs. We need to learn how to cope with and feel pain without acting upon it, and this is very important.

**Mary:** That's what happens often, isn't it, that pain is triggered, or even, sadly in the West, we are so accustomed now to meeting our addictions and getting what we want. We're even uncomfortable with a little bit of discomfort. Like if there's a tiny bit of break in routine, we don't get what we want, there's rage and rebellion even about just experiencing that. But really what you're saying is, in order for us to change and grow, for the world to change for the better, we must all learn to allow the overwhelm of our pain rather than have it triggered and try to prevent it.

The experience of our pain, the full experience of it. For most people that is going to feel very overwhelming because they have never done that in their entire life and so of course it's going to be overwhelming initially. But this is how the soul grows. It has to be overwhelmed in order to grow. You can't grow without being overwhelmed by your emotion of some kind, whether it's pleasure or pain.

**Mary:** Let's face it; a lot of us are frightened of also being overwhelmed by pleasure. There are a lot of other fears that can be triggered in that process, and unless we're humble to them that doesn't happen then either.

Correct. We've got this double whammy, if you like, where we're constructing our life, we're so afraid of being overwhelmed by pain and at the same time we're seeking pleasure, but not too much, not too much. (Laughs) We're trying to control how much.

**Mary:** It's like this: there's a zone of comfort and anything outside either end is challenging emotionally and so we avoid that and actually, as you said earlier, justify pretty harsh behaviour.

Yes, right down to killing people. How many mothers are willing to kill their own unborn child, just because they might experience a bit of pain by having childbirth and having to look after the child? You know that happens; we've documented having that happen 50 million times every year, where 50 million people feel like that every year. That's not including the fathers who encourage such things, so this is an indication that we are so focused on avoiding pain that we are willing to kill children in order to avoid pain. That's how bad this problem is on the planet and we need to change this. The way you can change this is teaching children how to feel their own pain without acting on it. If we had programs in schools that taught children how to feel their own pain without acting upon it, by the time they were five or six years of age they wouldn't have any pain.

**Mary:** That would be so awesome.

They would be free of pain and they would only experience pleasure. Because we are so focused on suppressing pain, even in the child, by the time the children are in their teenage years they are now creating havoc and pain for other people generally. The number of things that we are prepared to do to avoid pain is very intense. It is a major cause of all violence on the planet, a major cause of all murders on the planet; all abortions on the planet and so forth are caused by this desire to avoid personal pain. It is such a terrible state of affairs and it will not change unless we start seeing that true progression can only occur by us allowing the feeling of pain.

**Mary:** It's so simple; it's such an answer. If everyone on the planet just did that one thing the planet would change overnight.

Correct, there would be no war because there'd be no one who'd want to suppress their pain enough to go to war.

**Mary:** Who wanted to avoid pain enough, yes.

There'd be no war, there would be no rapes. There would be no man who feels enough pain to actually contemplate sexually violating a woman, so there'd be no rapes because he is willing to go through his emotions about that, how he is feeling about that, how he was treated as a child from his own mother perhaps or whatever. He is allowing himself to go through those things rather that actually take that out on another woman. There'd be no violence. Somebody insults you, and you'd feel your pain about it instead of punching them back. Someone violently assaults you; you'd feel your own pain about it without wanting to kill them.

**Mary:** If everyone engaged that process with God, truth would begin entering people everywhere and so joy would be multiplied exponentially.

Everywhere.

**Mary:** That always happens when truth is absorbed, there's joy. Also, things would be more in harmony with logic, as we've talked about earlier in this discussion.

Yes. Laws would change overnight because everybody would now disagree that law applies anymore. (Laughter)

**Mary:** You wouldn't even have to change the law in a court; there'd be a new law because everyone would be acting in that law and the other one would be redundant.

A lot of laws would become redundant as a result of everyone feeling their own pain rather than acting upon it, and it's such an important message of progression. The majority of people still have no real understanding of how much change will result once they actually embrace it inside of their soul, both to themselves personally, not only to themselves but also to their families, their friends, the society in which they live, their work environment, everything around them. The environment itself will change as a result of them choosing differently.

**Mary:** Yes, and I often see people around us who are trying to analyse their progress, "Oh I cried about this, I think it was about that, I think that's going to change this. By doing this, I've got to figure out," it's very analytical and intellectual. If we just trusted these principles, and just said, "Well, if I am willing to be honest and self-reflective and feel what's really there, and understand the principle that progression is going to happen if I simply allow the emotion that is there..." then we wouldn't have to put any effort into analysing. We would just feel, and truth would enter us. It's only the belief in error that creates our pain anyway and so there couldn't be more pain.

It simplifies everything. You don't have to think so much; you just focus on finding the error and letting it go. Finding the error; you know there's pain there, let the pain go, feel it. The only way you're going to let it go is by feeling it. You're focused on using your mind to find the pain and feeling it, instead of using your mind to try to run away from it and doing all the other things we do trying to get away from that pain. If you really understood progression you would never avoid a single pain that you'd had again. You'd never avoid it.

**Mary:** Sadly, a lot of us have a lot of false beliefs about what's going to happen to us when we feel our pain, but the truth is that when we progress, when we really progress using this principle, and feeling our emotions, we have more clarity and more joy in our life regardless even of what happens around us. Even if more fear gets exposed, even if more emotions get exposed, there is still more joy and quality of life within us, and within our relationship with God.

This is the unfortunate fact. The majority of people feel that it's dangerous to feel their own pain and the reality is, it's dangerous not to. It's dangerous not to feel your own pain. It's actually going to be better to feel your pain than not. This is where I feel a lot of people's false beliefs get really tied up in the whole thing, don't they? Where they believe, "If I feel pain, my life's going to get worse." They often believe that of course, and that prevents them from feeling their pain, which means their life does get worse ironically. I find that so unfortunate, watching people do all of this when it's quite simple. If you allow yourself to truly experience your own pain and release it, it will release by you feeling it. Once that happens, change is automatic after that; you don't have to try. On top of that you experience the joy of relief, of it all being released. In addition, that is the safest place you can be. There's so much focus, I find, on how dangerous it is to feel your emotions – man, the number of times the media in Australia and overseas has criticised me for teaching this teaching, it's incredible how much investment there is in trying to have people not feel their pain.

**Mary:** Isn't it crazy, you don't see them knocking on doors of funeral parlours and bursting in and saying to people...

"Don't feel your pain."

**Mary:** "... Stop crying, stop crying, that's dangerous," when in fact we're really just encouraging people to do the same thing. Every time you suppress the loss or a feeling of fear or a feeling of grief in your past, simply allow that process now.

Correct.

**Mary:** It's only the false beliefs we have about that process that actually puts us in any danger.

Yes and there are an immense number of spirits around us who do not want us to feel our pain. That's because it's through our pain that they meet their own addictions.

**Mary:** Or through our avoidance of pain.

Yes. Through our avoidance of, trying to get away from, our pain, they meet their addictions. They are heavily invested in telling us that we shouldn't have to feel our pain, and the world as well is heavily invested in telling us we shouldn't have to feel our pain and why is that? Because they want to sell us something, they want to sell us some kind of product that helps us avoid our pain, that's why they are heavily invested in it. Until the world gets away from this investment in helping people avoid pain and instead makes products and services that helps you get into your pain in a loving way that is not harmful, then we're not going to have much change on the planet, to be honest.

**Mary:** You can tell we're a bit passionate about this point. (Laughs)

Honestly, it's one of the biggest problems that we face in the teachings of Divine Truth, because people think they can absorb new truth without getting rid of the old painful error and they can't. I can speak truth all day, every day, and we can have a hundred hours of videos every week talking about new truth and the majority of people are not going to be able to have it absorbed into their soul because they are unwilling to feel the pain of their error. It's like knocking on a brick wall. Until there's an opening in the soul towards pain, which is like a door in the brick wall, nothing will change.

The world will not accept truth while it is so opposed to feeling pain, because the error that's within the soul is all painful. It's going to have to come out, and it's going to have to come out by experiencing it and there are no other options. There's no other option. There is no other fancy way. There's no tapping, there's no this, there's no that, there's no Reiki; none of those things will cause you to actually get into all of your causal grief and pain. You have to go through it and when you allow yourself to go through it, God's Love can come and just wash it away so simply and easily. This is the sad thing: because we're so unwilling to feel the pain, it doesn't give us the opportunity to feel much of God's Love either. That's very sad.

**Mary:** We know from the other principles like dominance, that all of our belief systems, all of our thoughts, all of our actions, everything is going to be based on what is already within our soul, so it doesn't matter if you try to find the casual belief and modify that and ask God to please take it away, unless we deal with the causal emotion that has driven that belief ...

... and unless we are willing to feel it and experience it...

**Mary:** Yes, unless it's gone from us in an emotional process, it's going to dominate our life.

Correct. I feel that this is one of the major things people need to understand about their progression. These are the principles of progression that are so, so important for a person to understand. If they understand this, they understand the soul, and this kind of understanding of the soul is everlasting.

This is how the soul progresses. Once you've released all your pain, the only emotion you experience after that is pleasure, so it's going to be very easy to learn once all the emotions about learning that are just pleasurable, isn't it? But if you're unwilling to feel the pain, none of that can actually ever happen, and that's the sad thing.

The world is in so much pain and the individuals in the world are in so much pain, and we never engage the process of the feeling of the pain and as a result the truth, the pleasure of receiving the truth cannot happen for us and that's also a sad thing. God's trying to share all this truth, all this wealth of emotional experience, and truth that God has for us to experience. We can't experience any of it when we're so resistive to our pain and so we're really using our will to lock up the progress of our soul.

The only way our soul is going to progress is by our being heavily engaged in a slow and very, very painful process of slowly changing each emotion that we're unwilling to feel completely because we are unwilling to cope with being overwhelmed with pain. As a result we feel a smidge of it, feel a smidge of it, feel a smidge of it, and make a little bit of progress because we feel a smidge of it each time, but it takes hundreds if not thousands of years for people to do that kind of progression, when your progression can be right down ten years or fifteen, twenty years. Even on Earth it can be fifteen, twenty years for progression and you're at-one with God and without pain, so why would you avoid that process when doing it the other way can take thousands of years?

It just makes no sense at all to me. This is something we observed a lot from the spirit world obviously, people making these choices to avoid pain, avoid pain, avoid pain. Hopefully one of the things we are trying to show people is, like, we've been through a lot of personal pain and we've still got more personal pain to go through, and each time we do we end up feeling happier. That is a demonstration of the truth of what we teach.

**Mary:** Yes, thanks darling for discussing this with me.

No worries. I suppose that that is the finish of our session today with regard to feeling these points about the human soul. We've still got three more points to discuss about this. We'll do this in our next session on The Human Soul, which we hope will be next week, so thanks for your time.

**Mary:** Yes. We hope you enjoyed it.

We hope you enjoyed it and thanks again for Igor behind our main camera there and Lena behind the other camera for recording our sessions today for us, thanks guys.

