I think films extremely important from a
couple of different points of view for
myself as a filmmaker being able to have
the choice to shoot on film to shoot on
celluloid which is what I love and what
I choose to do that's been under threat
the last couple of years very much
there's been an economic imperative to
push digital technology because it's
perceived as being cheaper which it
isn't necessarily but there are a lot of
economic interests wanting to sell new
equipment wanting to you know evolve the
industry and make money that way and
they've had a very powerful voice and so
over the last couple of years film
makers like myself have wanted to
continue shooting on film have been
under increasing pressure to modernize
what if you want to call it but for me
film will always have this wonderful
richness the analog color it has the
superior resolution and when film is
projected the way it was originally
intended to be seen the way you've shot
the film we project the film there's a
very unique experience for the audience
there that they can't get in their
living rooms and I think that something
is very very important is it a little
bit nerdy I mean if you were if you were
we were to take you to a blind tasting
and screen several movies at you are you
confident you'd on the whole spot the
old film stock from the digital I'm very
extremely confident of that but that is
my job that is my profession obviously
I'm aware that we're dealing with
relative subtleties but people often
misunderstand just how sophisticated
human eye is and how it develops over
time and so for example you know I grew
up in a generation where when you switch
on the television you know
in the 80s and 90s you could tell within
a couple of shots within 5 or 10 seconds
whether you were watching a feature film
being shown on television a news program
a drama a television commercial
everybody's very sensitized the
differences in imaging technology they
might not understand they might not be
able to say this is why this looks this
way this is why that looks that way and
nor should they
but in terms of being sensitized to it
and then having an effect on the way
they perceive the story they're being
shown that's in arguable that's a very
powerful component of what cinema has
always been and when people look at
movies and say well if we do it more
like television if we use video
technology as opposed to film technology
it won't have an impact a lot of people
who were telling me that you know 10
years ago and other people saying that
younger audiences aren't as interested
in films as they used to be they're more
interested in television for example and
so I think there's a very real danger
with watering down the theatrical
experience watering down the experience
before the film is that organic larger
than life the quality that that a great
film print hers I grew up able to go to
Leicester Square I'd look at you know
these amazing images projected on on
huge screens it was incredibly important
to me as a kid and I really wanted my
kids to have have that same experience
okay so is this about making sure that
film stock continues to be used is it
also about a sort of conservation role I
mean I don't know if there's a threat to
old movies there's a master theory right
totally
there's a massive threat to old movies
and to the movies being made today what
happened in the history of cinema is a
history of people not looking after
movies and there's great work being done
by the film foundation the Martin
Scorsese set up to restore films of the
past to try and find lost films and when
we look back at the way the Hollywood
studios and the distributors of whether
the the Cavalier way they treated some
of their films back there
you would think that those lessons had
been learned but the truth is today
particularly with the confusing
proliferation of digital technology in
the distribution mechanism you would
think that we learn the lessons of the
past but the truth is there isn't any
stable digital archiving medium so
really the only way to reliably preserve
films for the foreseeable future is on
film stock and that's continuously or
increasing less to be ignored so when
you talk to archivists the photochemical
preservation of films is extremely
important and it hasn't been a sexier
topic to talk about as digitization so
the idea that well you can raise money
you know in years past to digitize your
archive that's that's wonderful as far
as access goes and digital technology's
been wonderful for granting increased
access to older films but you can't
throw away the photic of chemical
elements those are still the
authoritative versions of the films and
they need to be preserved very very
carefully and that costs money that
takes people with great expertise and
it's very important that that not be
ignored we'd all love to believe that
with new technology and new digital
technology a problem has been taken off
the shelf you know problems be solved
and we don't have to worry about it
anymore it's simply not the case we're
always going to have to be guarding
these cultural treasures very very
carefully okay do you feel the same way
about digital effects I mean if I was a
director I might yearn for the days of
Francis Ford Coppola where you could
send genuine choppers in to Phnom and
film that is it a little bit
disappointing to say well we'll leave
all that to the blokes in the lab very
much I mean I on my films I try to shoot
as much in camera as possible on
interstellar my last film you know for
example we didn't use any green screens
so what we were shooting inside a
spaceship we had views outside the
windows we would produced all that
material and we shall achieve the
effective camera
and when you're a little bit where
Matthew McConaughey's tumbling through a
sort of space-time continuum is what
he's doing
indeed we built a set for that and we
enhanced it with visual effects and
visual effects technology has been
wonderful for enhancing those things and
you increasing the vocabulary but
sometimes when you're asked to justify
these things like not using green-screen
you have to just bring it down to well
it's so much more fun to do it it's fun
for the actors it's fun for me there's
nothing more dispiriting than when you
turn up the work and there's just a
green screen with a couple actors in
front of it it's really the Magic's not
there so trying to do these things for
real try to use real locations I've
always preferred real locations to do
sets for the same reason is there's a
feeling of reality there's a feeling of
being somewhere that that matters so you
know I avail myself of all the latest
digital effects technology absolutely
but we try and always achieve what we
can in camera and and have as good a
time as possible doing it very good good
to hear
now you're famous for somehow marrying a
kind of art film sensibility with these
big popcorn guzzlers how do you do that
and what is the knack of bringing big
audiences to cinema do you think well I
wouldn't claim to have the knack for
doing that I've been very fortunate with
you know the breadth of the audience
we've managed to get for some of some of
our films ultimately really well I could
say that was I try not to separate the
two things I try not to separate my love
for very sophisticated esoteric
filmmakers people I grew up watching
like Nicolas Roeg whose films I love I
try not to separate that side of myself
from the side that grew up watching Star
Wars and James Bond and allowing that
you try to pitch the film in the
language that you think it should be
made in you try and think of what's the
breadth of the audience you're making
the film for but I don't think that
needs to involve dumbing it down or
selling it out
anyway because I grew up loving
Hollywood blockbusters and for me it's
really a process of trying to recreate
that that magic that sense of scale that
sense of immersion in a world that you
grew up that you can bring that to
filmmaking I think you have the
potential to reach reach a wider
audience with all the films I've made I
felt that really trying to compliment
the audience's intelligence trying to
engage the audience with something
that's new different can pay great
dividends
you mentioned bond Mendes will be
stepping down
is it time perhaps this is your next
thing the nolan bond where he travels
back in time or wouldn't you like to
grapple with that franchise well I mean
it's a great franchise and I've grown up
so you love again but they seem to be
doing fine without me that's not a no
it's not a nobodies not a broccoli
picked the phone up okay one of your
films that I particularly enjoyed was
insomnia without Pacino quite
interesting to make what are your
memories of that my only regret is that
you didn't get a real signature
mannerism out of him I like scent of a
woman with the who Harz going on well I
mean the the interesting thing in
working with our who is an amazing film
actor I mean arguably I would say one of
the best who's ever lived one of the
things you learn from him is he would
act very specifically for the film
medium and that is to say he would ask
you to do a number of takes we were
doing a take of a two-minute scene or
something he would produce a peak of
energy something and he would shift it
take to take and the reason he would do
that is because sometimes he would do
something that was extreme or
over-the-top so that about 30 seconds
later he was at a hit just the right
note and so you have that edit myself
sort of taking him up well just
something in his process exactly to find
the correct truth the correct
of energy for them for the take but what
it means is as a filmmaker you then have
huge opportunities in the other suite
but you've also got a tremendous
responsibility to try to be true to his
original intention and draw from you
know if he's given you 12 takes you're
taking the beginning of take two in the
middle of take four and the end of take
eight and that was a very careful
process that I really loved doing I mean
did fascinated you think within hours
he's also a Greece theater actor so he
can do it completely differently as well
and he's so knowledgeable about film and
film craft it was a it was a joy to work
with him and I learned an enormous
amount doing it so you couldn't say al
that was fine the first takes great it's
freezing up here let's move on to the
motel scene I could try but I wouldn't
get away with that no I mean the the
really interesting thing for me when I
look back at the the dailies on that
film is that we would do a lot of takes
we would do 10 12 takes of anything but
I could have cut the entire film from
his first take every time he was just
nowhere her experience streaming rare I
mean he was in almost every scene of the
film he shot 53 days I think every first
take was perfect absolutely perfect
he then explores in all kinds of
different ways in fascinating ways that
really let you try different things
somatically and let different elements
and storing different layers of the
story kind of bubble to the surface but
as far as from a technical point of view
every first take perfect I mean he's so
on it so prepare and you really have to
raise your game when you work with them
okay and Batman a huge success very dark
very dystopian obviously you know you
collaborate on these films are not
entirely your vision but is is there
some sense of that's how you see the way
we are now or is that reading too much
into a movie well I think it's a more
question of saying the opportunity you
get with work in a particularly
or like the the action movie genre the
superhero genre working with the dashana
it allows you to foresee the opportunity
to explore things you're interested in
or afraid of neurosis you have worries
you have about the way the world is it
allows you to explore them in a very
sort of exaggerated manner in a way that
you can really tap into the collective
fears that we have as a society in
particularly in the case of Batman
you have the opportunity through his
environment through Gotham to really
offer a very dark reflection of the
society we live in and with my
collaborators David Goya my brother
Jonah at the scriptwriting stage we
certainly were very careful not to be
self-conscious in those aspects so we
tried to just write a great story first
and foremost but we also tried to be
open to what are we really worried about
how does the world feel to us what would
you do what would you be most concerned
about in the case of the Dark Knight
becomes very much about chaos and
Anarchy and a breakdown of society or so
forth that way going through that
process you you hope to come with
something that will resonate with the
audience it will touch something in them
do you miss any of the gags from the old
TV series do you think you've hit the
right gag quotient in those films I
think you you know you put as much humor
in as the tone of what you're doing will
sustain and you know we were always very
fortunate to have Michael Caine you know
along for the ride to drop you know in
the odd you know the odd Dom my funny
live the odd they are a bit of heart and
also Mormon Freeman you know who had
some wonderful actors in there but but
those guys particularly they learn you
know a degree of moves to something that
otherwise could be too dark too cold now
we're in this August library it's all
about the truth of film so here and on
the record who's the most difficult
person you've worked with yeah
profession who's the one where you've
stood outside the Winnebago going come
on pal because it happens doesn't it you
know to be honest it as a director
you're really responsible for what that
tone is onset and you know people will
ask me what was this act I like to work
with what was that acting like to work
with the truth is great actors and I've
been very fortunate to work with a lot
of really really great actors they're
all different they all have a different
process and my job as a director is to
find what they need from me and and
accommodate that and get the most out of
them and I pride myself on being able to
do that how do you do the job because
there's so much to juggle isn't there
there's the budget the weather the
locations the prima donna who won't come
out of the Winnebago let's say the
schedule the release date
I mean do you sleep at night when you're
in the middle of these things you sleep
just because you're exhausted
you know from pure exhaustion I enjoy
the multi-faceted nature of the
challenge I enjoy having to be an expert
on a lot of different things or having
to pretend to be an expert a lot of
different things one of things I love
about directing is is you don't
specialize you you have to be able to
really think of all the different
aspects of the film at the same time
it's also important to surround yourself
with collaborators who can take the
pressure off certain aspects of it and
castings a huge part of that you know
finding actors some of the great accent
work with on the Dark Knight trilogy for
example who you know they would
recognize that yes were also having to
worry about flipping this truck or
blowing was building up you know
whatever and so their process would be
balanced against that and working with
very generous performers was it was a
big part of that so I really do enjoy
the the challenge of putting together a
lot of
aspects of water project and being
trying to be in control of that and it's
it's a really fun thing how have you
managed to get movies like momento
inception interstellar through the
studio system because one remember
stories of the old days that the old
guys who ran the studios would look at a
film and if they didn't think it would
play in Milwaukee if it was too clever
they would say you know go back to the
drawing board so people can follow it
yours have been tangled naughty films
how do you get away with that well I
mean ultimately I've got away with it
because the audiences have have been
willing to come along for the ride and
anytime you make a film like make a film
like memento and the audience comes even
though it's a challenging material for
that genre and that and that scale that
buys you some credibility with the
people we were going to finance your
next film I was actually doing a talk at
the the National Film School last night
and somebody probably heard and said
well how do you pitch a project like
Inception I don't know my conception
mate and I made a check you know
somewhat glibly just saying well the
first thing you do is you make the Dark
Knight because I made a huge amount of
money for the studio and then you come
in with us here and say okay how about
this but even though I said it as a joke
it was a lot of truth to it because
really it was about Warner Brothers
showing a lot of trust you know and
saying okay
you'll be able to execute on this and be
able to make it comprehensible to an
audience so I think I think part of what
it is is being able to communicate how
you're going to get this across the
audience when you talk with the studio
about it and not show it disregard for
the audience when you're dealing with
sugar because you have to recognize the
economic realities you're dealing with
you're spending a lot of money or one of
these films where has such scale and
there are such big things that you want
to put on screen you have to be willing
to take on the responsibility that that
is gonna play play wider and I think
that's been a big part of my
relationship with the studio's is really
trying to be honest and open about what
the ambitions are for the film
do you ever have people come up to you
and say I loved interstellar Chris but
what was it about
can you explain what happens because I
enjoyed it but I must admit you know I I
slightly lost the plot not the first
time that's happened but but do you get
that I get that sort of equally with
most of my films do you that is to say
you know I'll have people ask me that
about inception for example and I
wouldn't say had been asked anymore with
interstellar I mean people different
sections of the audience get different
things out of the films and when you try
and make a film look it has a certain
density to it you do to a certain extent
split up your audience response but as
long as you're getting something out of
it then we're doing okay
I mean for me really the the best kind
of film you can make all the most
interesting kind of film you can make is
one that maybe somebody's interested to
look at it a second time get something
different from it okay do you fancy
doing something else a stripped-down
thing something like a rom-com or a
musical if somebody came to you with
that kind of pitch would you go
well I've nailed these time-traveling
odyssey's yeah I'm gonna do singing in
the rain for the new generation well I
sort of never say never but
I I am a big believer in being sincere
about your passion for something and I
do love all types of cinnamon but at the
same time when I come to do a project I
never want to be doing the project to
just for example to show versatility I
wouldn't do a project for that reason so
I think all the films I've made I like
to think that they're connected in
certain ways but they're all so
different from each other
that's as best as I can put it so I'd
like to continue working along those
lines really whenever you first and
foremost of being sincere in my passion
for the project because each film you
take on whatever scale it's played out
at you know it's it's a couple years of
my life sometimes more and so you really
want to be passionate about what it is
that you're doing okay now here's a dark
and controversial thought if you look at
the careers of the great directors
you're nobody until you've had a flop
anyone can have a hit but can you have a
failure and come back better and
stronger what do you think
I mean you've enjoyed this golden ride
so far I don't know what do you ever
look over your shoulder and think I'm do
one about now Oh certainly I mean I try
really to take on every project
individually and look at just that one
film because if you start and look at it
too much in terms of a continuum
thoughts like that would certainly
bother you but it's certainly the case
that we all have our ups and downs I
mean that's that's inevitable if you if
you stay in the game long enough so you
can't worry too much about that I think
the main thing is whatever the reception
to a film you've put out there
good or bad all you really have to hang
on to is your own belief in what it is
you've done that you've done the best
you possibly could and that you really
loved the thing that it was that you
were doing I think really that's that's
what's there at bottom and as far as how
I goes down in the marketplace well you
know none of us have any control
since it's in the air very much do you
have any thoughts to contribute to the
debate about sexism in Hollywood at the
moment people are saying certain leading
ladies that pay scales for instance are
out of line and and it's still a boys
club on the whole well I I mean
certainly there are all kinds of valid
criticisms levelled at the film industry
along those lines whether or not it's
worse than other areas of life I you
know I couldn't say but certainly
scrutiny all the issues are never going
to be a bad thing some people have been
saying that TV is where it's at now the
box set the Netflix experience who's got
the time to go to the movies it costs a
lot of money to get take a family to the
pictures what do you think about that
the TV is the cutting edge as some say
well it's very interesting if you look
back at them of the history as soon as
TV comes along the 1950s people start
saying movies are dead TVs taking over
um it's been that way you know for
generations at this point I think
they're just different and there are all
kinds of wonderful things about TV but
it can't take the place of movies the
communal experience of sitting and
watching a two-hour story unfold with an
audience around you I think that's a
very important part of our cultural life
and I think it always will be
thank you very much indeed thank you
