ACROSS AMERICA.
WHAT A MOMENT WE’RE LIVING IN
RIGHT NOW.
WE’VE GOT A ONCE VIBRANT TOWN IN
SEATTLE, RESIDENTIAL AND
BUSINESS TOWN BEING TAKEN OVER.
NOW CALLED THE CAPITOL HILL
ORGANIZED PROTEST OR CHOP OR
CHAZ, CAPITOL HILL AUTONOMOUS
ZONE.
IN MINNEAPOLIS, DEMONSTRATORS
HURLING BRICKS AT COPS AND
SETTING BUILDINGS ON FIRE AND
PEACEFUL AND NOT SO PEACEFUL
PROTESTS AS A RESULT OF THE
DEATH OF GEORGE FLOYD.
AS THE NUMBER ONE LAW
ENFORCEMENT INDIVIDUAL IN THE
COUNTRY, WHAT ARE YOU GOING TO
DO TO BRING LAW AND ORDER BACK?
>> WELL, ALL THESE SITUATIONS
REALLY INVOLVE TWO DIMENSIONS OF
THE RULE OF LAW.
ONE IS THE INDIVIDUAL CASE
THAT’S PRECIPITATED THE
DEMONSTRATIONS AND SO FORTH.
IT’S THE JOB OF THE DEPARTMENT
OF JUSTICE TO METE OUT JUSTICE
FAIRLY AND EVEN-HANDEDLY IN THAT
PARTICULAR CASE AND NOT BE
INFLUENCED BY THE MOB.
THE SECOND ASPECT IS THESE
DEMONSTRATIONS, WHICH ARE FINE.
PROTESTS AND DEMONSTRATIONS ARE
FINE.
WHEN THEY BECOME MOB VIOLENCE,
WE NEED TO RESTORE ORDER.
WE CAN’T BE RULED BY MOBS.
VERY TO BE RULED BY THE LEGAL
PROCESS.
IN THIS PARTICULAR SITUATION,
THERE’S OBVIOUSLY LEGITIMATE
DEMONSTRATORS OUT THERE RAISING
CONCERNS ABOUT POLICE ABUSE.
BUT A LOT OF THESE
DEMONSTRATIONS HAVE BEEN
HIJACKED BY ESSENTIALLY AN
ANARCHISTIC GROUPS AND
PROFESSIONAL AGITATORS WHO ARE
IN IT FOR THE VIOLENCE AND THE
CONFRONTATION.
SO I DO MAKE A DISTINCTION
BETWEEN LEGITIMATE PEACEFUL
DEMONSTRATORS AND THESE VIOLENT
AGITATORS WHO ARE INVOLVED
THROUGHOUT THE COUNTRY.
>> MARIA: WELL, THEY TOOK OVER
AN AREA IN SEATTLE AND THEY’RE
GUARDING IT WITH GUNS.
THEY TRIED TO DO IT IN PORTLAND
AS WELL.
DOES THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT HAVE
A RESPONSIBILITY TO PROTECT
CITIZENS OF OUR COUNTRY IF THE
CITIES AND STATES WON’T DO IT?
BECAUSE PEOPLE’S PROPERTY HAVE
BEEN DAMAGED.
THERE ARE PEOPLE WHO DON’T WANT
THIS AUTONOMOUS AREA IN SEATTLE
AROUND THEIR HOME.
>>  RIGHT.
WELL, IN THE FIRST INSTANCE,
IT’S THE RESPONSIBILITY
OBVIOUSLY OF THE LOCAL OFFICIALS
AND THEN THE STATE OFFICIALS TO
PROTECT THE RIGHTS OF THEIR
CITIZENS.
AT THE END OF THE DAY, THE
FEDERAL GOVERNMENT DOES HAVE A
RESPONSIBILITY TO MAKE SURE THAT
CITIZENS ARE NOT DEPRIVED OF
THEIR FEDERAL RATES.
>> MARIA: SO WILL YOU CHALLENGE
THAT AUTONOMOUS CITY?
WILL YOU SUE THE MAYOR?
WHAT CAN YOU DO?
>> WELL, I DON’T WANT TO GET
INTO SPECIFICS BUT WE’RE
OBVIOUSLY KEEPING AN EYE ON IT
AND AS THE PRESIDENT SAID IN DUE
COURSE WE MAY HAVE TO DO
SOMETHING ABOUT IT.
BUT WE CAN’T LET IT GO ON
INDEFINITELY.
>> MARIA: IT’S ALSO SPARKED
CALLS TO DEFUND THE POLICE.
ILHAN OMAR SAID THAT THE
MINNEAPOLIS POLICE DEPARTMENT
IS, QUOTE, ROTTEN TO THE ROOT.
WHAT IS THE IMPACT OF THIS
PUSHBACK ON LAW ENFORCEMENT?
ARE YOU WORRIED ABOUT
RESIGNATIONS, THE COPS WALKING
OFF THE JOB?
>> YES.
I MEAN, EVEN BEFORE THIS
HAPPENED I WAS SPEAKING OUT
ABOUT HOW THE JOB OF BEING A
POLICEMAN IN THE UNITED STATES
THESE DAYS IS THE TOUGHEST JOB
IN THE UNITED STATES.
THEY’RE UNDER A LOT OF PRESSURE.
I WAS CONCERNED EVEN BEFORE
THESE PRESSURES THAT WE WERE
HAVING DIFFICULTY MAINTAIN THE
LEVELS OF POLICE WE NEED IN OUR
CITIES, RETAINING THEM.
AND OBVIOUSLY THIS ENVIRONMENT
WHERE THEY’RE DEMONIZED WILL
DETER A LOT OF PEOPLE FROM
CONTINUING TO SERVE AS POLICE
AND ALSO I’M CONCERNED OF THE
EFFECT THAT THEY MAY PULL BACK
SOME OF THEIR ENFORCEMENT
ACTIVITIES AND NOT TAKE THOSE
RISKS SO I THINK IT COULD LEAD
AS IT’S LED IN OTHER SITUATIONS
TO AN ACTUAL INCREASE IN VIOLENT
CRIME AND MORE DEATHS.
YOU KNOW, I UNDERSTAND AN EVENT
LIKE MINNEAPOLIS AND WHY IT
STRUCK SUCH A CORD IN THE
AFRICAN-AMERICAN COMMUNITY.
THERE HAS BEEN LONG-STANDING
DISTRUST OF LAW ENFORCEMENT AND
THAT PARTLY COMES OUT OF THE
FACT THAT FOR MUCH OF OUR
HISTORY OUR LAWS WERE EXPLICITLY
DISCRIMINATORY.
AND FOR THE PAST FEW DECADES,
WE’VE BEEN REFORMING OUR OF
INSTITUTIONS TO MAKE SURE THEY
REFLECT OUR VALUES AND THE
POLICE HAVE BEEN ENGAGED IN THAN
WE SHOULDN’T LET THIS INCIDENT
AND THE ACTIONS OF A BAD FEW
OBSCURE THE FACT THAT THE POLICE
MADE A LOT OF PROGRESS.
INSTANCES OF THE SHOOTING OF
BLACK UNARMED MALES HAS BEEN
DROPPING.
IT WAS 38 FIVE YEARS AGO, LAST
YEAR IT WAS 10.
10 IN THE NATION.
AND SIX OF THOSE WERE INVOLVED
IN ATTACKING THE POLICE OFFICER
AT THE TIME THEY WERE SHOT.
SO WHILE ANY DEATH IS TOO MANY,
THE FACT IS THAT IN PROPORTION,
IT’S RELATIVELY SMALL.
I MEAN, THERE ARE 8,000 --
ROUGHLY 8,000 HOMICIDES OF
AFRICAN-AMERICANS IN OUR COUNTRY
EVERY YEAR.
8,000.
10 LAST YEAR WERE DUE TO FORCE
BY -- SHOOTING AN UNARMED BLACK
MALE.
WE HAVE TO KEEP THAT IN
PERSPECTIVE.
WE ALSO HAVE TO KEEP IN
PERSPECTIVE THAT THE POLICE
FORCES ARE MUCH MORE DIVERSE,
THE LEADERSHIP OF THE POLICE IS
MUCH MORE DIVERSE.
THEY ARE COMMITTED TO REFORM.
COMMUNITY POLICING HAS TAKEN
HOLD AROUND THE COUNTRY.
AND THAT REFORM HAS TO CONTINUE
AND WHAT WE HAVE TO DO IS BRING
OUT OF THESE EPISODES,
MINNEAPOLIS, SOMETHING THAT’S
GOOD AND THAT IS IT WILL
GALVANIZE THE PUBLIC WILL TO
CONTINUE THE PROCESS OF REFORM.
IT HAS TO BE FAIR REFORM TO THE
POLICE.
>> MARIA: SHOULD THE POLICE HAVE
QUALIFIED IMMUNITY?
>> YES, I THINK GENERALLY IN OUR
IMMUNITY USED TO BE ABSOLUTE.
THEY DROPPED IT DOWN TO
QUALIFIED TO PERMIT SOME
LAWSUITS IN EGREGIOUS CASES.
WITHOUT QUALIFIED IMMUNITY I
THINK MOST PEOPLE WOULD NOT TAKE
THE JOB AS A POLICE OFFICER.
SO WE WOULD ESSENTIALLY BE DOING
AWAY FROM OUR POLICE DEPARTMENT
-- AWAY WITH OUR POLICE
DEPARTMENT.
>> MARIA: WHAT ARE THE
IMPLICATIONS OF COLLECTIVE BARGE
ANYBODY, THERE WAS AN OP ED IN
THE JOURNAL, TALKING ABOUT THE
POLICE UNIONS AND HOW IT’S
GETTING IN THE WAY OF ACTUAL
REFORM.
>>  I THINK IT LARGELY DEPENDS
ON THE UNIONS AND IT’S HARD TO
GENERALIZE.
BUT I DO THINK THAT POLICE
UNIONS HAVE AN IMPORTANT ROLE TO
PLAY AND I DO THINK THAT POLICE
MANAGEMENT HAS TO BE ABLE TO GET
RID OF BAD APPLES.
BUT BY THE SAME TOKEEN, I THINK
THERE HAS TO BE DUE PROCESS.
ONE OF THE THINGS THAT’S
BOTHERED -- DEMOCRATIC SENATOR
ONCE USED THE EXPRESSION, I
THOUGHT IT WAS ACTUALLY A GOOD
ONE, THAT BEING THE ATTORNEY
GENERAL IS LIKE BEING THE
SHERIFF OF ONE OF THESE OLD
WESTERN MOVIES WHEN THE MOB
SHOWS UP AT THE JAILHOUSE DOOR,
YOU’RE STANDING IN FRONT OF THE
JAIL AND SOMETIMES THAT MOB
WANTS TO HANG THE PERSON, AND
SOMETIMES THEY WANT TO SPRING
THE PERSON.
AND IT’S THE JOB OF THE ATTORNEY
GENERAL NOT TO BE INFLUENCED BY
THE MOB BUT TRY TO DO JUSTICE IN
THAT PARTICULAR CASE AND I THINK
POLICE ARE AT RISK SOMETIMES
WHEN SOME EVENT LIKE THIS
HAPPENS OF -- OR WE HAVE TO MAKE
SPECIAL EFFORT TO MAKE SURE THAT
THEY GET DUE PROCESS.
BIAS AMONG OUR TOP SOCIAL MEDIA
COMPANIES.
THERE IS A LOT OF ACTIVITY IN
ATLANTA RIGHT NOW BECAUSE OF THE
CHARGES AGAINST THE OFFICER WHO
KILLED RAYSHARD BROOKS.
WE SAW THE VIDEO OF BROOKS
GRABBING THE OFFICER’S TASER,
USING THE TASER AGAINST HIM.
THE OFFICER’S BEING CHARGED WITH
FELONY MURDER.
HE COULD FACE EXECUTION.
DID THAT CASE MERIT MURDER
CHARGES OR IS THAT OFFICER BEING
LUMPED IN WITH THE UPSET OVER
GEORGE FLOYD?
>> WELL, BECAUSE I MIGHT BE
CALLED UPON AS ATTORNEY GENERAL
TO PASS JUDGMENT ON THAT CASE,
UNDER CIVIL RIGHTS LAWS, I DON’T
WANT TO GET INTO THE SPECIFICS
OF IT.
BUT I CERTAINLY WOULD HAVE LIKED
TO HAVE SEEN THE GEORGIA BUREAU
OF INVESTIGATION COMPLETE THEIR
INVESTIGATION BEFORE CHARGES
WERE BROUGHT.
ALSO, THE USE OF A GRAND JURY.
THE GRAND JURY PROCESS PRO SIDES
SOME PROTECTION TO HAVE CITIZENS
IN A GROUP DECIDE THAT THERE’S
BEEN A CRIME COMMITTED AND THERE
WAS NO GRAND JURY USED IN THIS
CASE.
I THINK IT’S IMPORTANT TO GO
THROUGH THE RIGHT PROCESSES
BEFORE CHARGING SOMEONE.
I ALSO THINK THERE WAS
FUNDAMENTAL DIFFERENCE OBVIOUSLY
BETWEEN WHAT HAPPENED IN ATLANTA
AND WHAT HAPPENED IN
MINNEAPOLIS.
ESSENTIALLY KNEELING ON
SOMEONE’S NECK FOR ALMOST NINE
MINUTES WHO WAS ALREADY
INCAPACITATED.
>> MARIA: VERY UPSETTING
STORIES.
DO YOU THINK THAT THERE IS
SYSTEMIC RACISM IN THIS COUNTRY?
>> NO, I DON’T THINK THERE’S
SYSTEMIC -- WELL, I DO THINK
THERE’S RACISM IN THE COUNTRY.
NOW, SYSTEMIC IN TERMS OF THE
LAW ENFORCEMENT AND THE POLICE
AGENCIES, I DON’T THINK THERE IS
SYSTEMIC LAW ENFORCEMENT IN
THOSE AGENCIES.
I THINK THERE MAY BE INDIVIDUALS
AND THERE ARE INDIVIDUALS WHO
MAY HAVE BIAS AND SOMETIMES THAT
MAY EMERGE AND BE MAP FESTED IN
SOME ACT -- MANIFESTED IN SOME
ACT BUT I DON’T THINK IT’S
SYSTEMIC.
>> MARIA: I ASK BECAUSE THERE’S
BAD COPS AND THERE’S A SYSTEM
THAT MAYBE HAS THINGS THAT ARE
BUILT INTO IT THAT SHOULD BE
LOOKED AT, FOR EXAMPLE, IF A
WHITE KID GETS CAUGHT UNDER AGE
DRINKING, THE PARENTS ARE GOING
TO DO ANYTHING THEY CAN TO AVOID
THAT CONVICTION ON THE KID’S
RECORD THAT WILL FOLLOW HIM AND
HE’LL CARRY THE REST OF HIS
LIFE.
SO THEY’LL DO DIVERSION PROGRAM,
DIVERSION PROGRAM.
ARE WE OFFERING THE SAME
DIVERSION PROGRAMS TO BLACKS AND
WHITES?
>> IN SOME JURISDICTIONS, YES.
IN SOME, PROBABLY NOT AS MUCH AS
WE SHOULD.
AS I SAID, THIS IS A PROCESS OF
REFORMING OUR INSTITUTIONS,
LOOKING FOR INEQUITIES AND
MAKING SURE WE ADDRESS THEM.
>> MARIA: LET ME MOVE ON TO
FREEDOM OF SPEECH ON WHAT JUST
TOOK PLACE.
THE DOJ PLANNING TO ROLL BACK
THE LEGAL PROTECTIONS, THE
MONOPOLY LEGAL PROTECTIONS THAT
TECHNOLOGY COMPANIES ENJOY.
WHAT PROMPTED THIS?
>> SO THE BASIC IDEA IS THAT IF
YOU’RE ACTING AS ESSENTIALLY A
BULLETIN BOARD AND OPEN TO ALL
COMERS AND THIRD PARTIES CAN
POST THEIR CONTENT ON THEIR
WEBSITE AND YOU’RE NOT BEING
SELECTIVE ABOUT IT, IT’S OPEN TO
ALL COMERS, YOU SHOULDN’T BE
DEEMED A PUBLISHER.
WE WANT TO ENCOURAGE THAT KIND
OF FORUM FOR THIRD PARTY VIEWS.
THAT RAN INTO PROBLEMS BECAUSE
WE WANTED TO ENCOURAGE DURING
THE EARLY DAYS OF THE INTERNET,
WE WANTED TO ENCOURAGE PLATFORMS
TO TAKE OFF OBSCENE MATERIAL OR
HARASSING MATERIAL OR OTHER
KINDS OF OFFENSIVE MATERIAL LIKE
THAT.
WHAT WE SAID WAS IN THE LAW,
SECTION 230, IF YOU TAKE THAT
DOWN, THAT DOESN’T MAKE YOU A
PUBLISHER.
IF YOU TAKE DOWN OBJECTIONABLE
MATERIAL LIKE THAT.
UNFORTUNATELY, THEY STARTED
TAKING DOWN VIEWPOINTS AND
STARTED REALLY BEING SELECTIVE
AND BASED ON WHETHER THEY AGREED
WITH THE VIE PONT OR NOT --
VIEWPOINT OR NOT TAKING IT DOWN.
AND THAT SHOULD MAKE THEM A
PUBLISHER.
THEY SAID UNDER SECTION 230 THEY
WEREN’T.
THAT’S ONE OF THE PROBLEMS
ARISING UNDER SECTION 230.
WE PROPOSED A CHANGE TO ADDRESS
THAT.
WHAT WE SAID IS YOU CAN TAKE
DOWN STUFF THAT IS UNLAWFUL AND
YOU CAN TAKE DOWN STUFF THAT’S
NOT -- DOES NOT ACCORD WITH YOUR
TERMS OF SERVICE BUT YOU HAVE TO
MAKE YOUR TERMS OF SERVICE
CLEAR.
HAVE YOU TO HAVE A REASONABLY
BASED REASON FOR TAKING DOWN THE
PARTICULAR CONTENT AND SHOW THAT
IT VIOLATED YOUR TERMS OF
SERVICE AND YOU NEED TO GIVE
SOMEONE NOTICE AND PROCESS
WHEREBY THEY CAN DISPUTE THAT.
>> MARIA: GOOGLE DID SELECT
FEDERALIST, ZERO HEDGE AND TRIED
TO CUT OFF THEIR ADVERTISING
REVENUE.
SENATOR TOM COTTON ALSO TOLD ME
THAT HE GOT A CALL FROM SOMEONE
AT TWITTER WHO SAID TAKE DOWN
YOUR TWEET IMMEDIATELY ABOUT THE
POLICE NEEDING THE MILITARY TO
BACK THEM UP.
OTHERWISE, WE’RE DELETING YOUR
ACCOUNT ENTIRELY.
>>  RIGHT.
THERE’S SOMETHING VERY
DISTURBING ABOUT WHAT’S GOING
ON.
TO SOME EXTENT, THERE WAS A BAIT
AND SWITCH OVER THE PAST COUPLE
DECADES.
THESE COMPANIES HELD THEMSELVES
OUT AS OPEN TO ALL COMERS.
THAT’S HOW THEY BUILT UP ALL
THEIR MEMBERSHIP AND NETWORKS,
SAYING, YOU KNOW, WE HAVE A WIDE
VARIETY OF VIEWS.
PEOPLE CAN COME IN AND POST
THEIR VIEWS AND THEIR POSITIONS
AND THEIR STATEMENTS.
AND THAT’S WHAT LED TO PEOPLE
JOINING IT AND GET THE STRONG
MARKET POSITION THEY HAVE.
THEN THEY SWITCHED.
NOW THEY’RE BEING MORE SELECTIVE
AND THEY’RE STARTING TO CENSOR
DIFFERENT VIEWPOINTS.
BUT YOU HAVE THIS CONCENTRATION
OF THESE VERY LARGE COMPANIES
THAT HAD THAT KIND OF INFLUENCE
ON THE SHARING OF INFORMATION
AND VIEWPOINTS IN OUR SOCIETY.
AND THAT IS A FUNDAMENTAL
PROBLEM BECAUSE OUR REPUBLIC WAS
FOUNDED ON THE IDEA AND WHOLE
RATIONAL WAS THAT THERE WOULD BE
A LOT OF DIVERSITY OF VOICES AND
IT WOULD BE HARD FOR SOMEONE TO
TO BE ABLE TO GALVANIZE A BIG
FACTION IN THE UNITED STATES
THAT COULD DOMINATE POLITICALLY
AND OPPRESS A MINORITY.
YET NOW WE HAVE WITH THE
INTERNET AND WITH THESE BIG
CONCENTRATIONS OF POWER THE
ABILITY TO DO JUST THAT, TO
QUICKLY GALVANIZE PEOPLE’S VIEWS
BECAUSE THEY’RE ONLY PRESENTING
ONE VIEWPOINT AND THEY CAN PUSH
THE PUBLIC IN A PARTICULAR
DIRECTION VERY QUICKLY AND OUR
WHOLE CONSTITUTION AND SYSTEM
WAS BASED ON NOT HAVING THAT AND
HAVING A WIDE DIVERSITY OF
VOICES.
SO ONE WAY THIS CAN BE ADDRESSED
IS THROUGH THE ANTI-TRUST LAWS
AND CHALLENGING COMPANIES THAT
