VINOD MARUR: Hi, everyone.
How is everyone doing?
Excited?
So for those that don't
know me, I'm Vinod Marur.
I'm a VP in the search
[INAUDIBLE] quality team
here at Google.
Over the years,
we've had the fortune
of hosting some amazing
musicians and artists.
I've been in your seats, eagerly
awaiting their appearance
and wanting to ask
them questions.
But it is an
exceptional honor to be
able to host someone
of the caliber
and the type of repertoire
that Ustad Zakir Hussain brings
to us today.
As many of you know, Ustadji
has won numerous awards--
the Padma Shri, the Padma
Bhushan, the National
Fellowship for Arts,
National Endowment, and also
two Grammys, just to name a few.
I did not realize
this until recently,
but he began learning
tabla at the age of three.
And he was touring
by the age of 11.
His first tour to the
United States was in 1970.
And his typical concert
here has 150 concert days.
Just think about the
mind-boggling volume of that.
And as I said, I've
been a huge fan.
I remember seeing
Ustadji at places
like [INAUDIBLE]
and Prithvi Theatre
in Bombay, Madison Square
Garden in New York City,
and, of course, closer to
home at the San Francisco Jazz
Center.
So it's really a personal
privilege for me,
and please join me in a
huge round of applause
in welcoming Ustadji to Google.
[APPLAUSE]
ZAKIR HUSSAIN: Hello, everyone.
Good afternoon.
Namaste.
[NON-ENGLISH SPEECH],
whatnot, everything.
It's great to be here.
Thanks for having me.
VINOD MARUR: Thank
you for being here.
ZAKIR HUSSAIN: Did
you just say that I
played 150 concerts daily?
[LAUGHTER]
That would be a trick.
[LAUGHTER]
I'd say maybe 150 or
so a year at one time.
But now I'm semi-retired,
So maybe 160.
[LAUGHTER]
VINOD MARUR: Well,
as someone who's
been following you, even
getting three of those a year
is just exhilarating.
And again, thank you
so much for being here.
I understand you've just
come in from London.
ZAKIR HUSSAIN: Yeah, I
just came in from London.
I went to do the London premier
of my concerto for tabla
and symphony orchestra at
London's Royal Festival Hall
for the Alchemy Festival.
So that happened about three
days ago, four days ago.
And I had been commissioned
to write this piece.
It's the world's
first tabla concerto
involving the full symphony
orchestra, like a San Francisco
Symphony or something.
So it's now being premiered
in Bombay-- sorry, Mumbai
and Switzerland-- actually
Bumbai-- Switzerland, and now
London.
And its American premier
is slated for next April
at the Kennedy Center
with the National Symphony
Orchestra, which is the
Kennedy Center Orchestra,
and then some other
concerts all over America.
So that's the new thing.
VINOD MARUR: That's awesome.
And so sometime next year
we should stay tuned to--
ZAKIR HUSSAIN: You might be able
to see it here maybe at the San
Jose Symphony or at the
very amazing Google Symphony
Orchestra.
[LAUGHTER]
Fondly known in
Maharashtra as "Googlay."
[LAUGHTER]
VINOD MARUR: Or in cricket
terms, it's "Googly."
ZAKIR HUSSAIN: "Googly."
VINOD MARUR: So
as you can see, we
have a ton of what
we call Googlers.
We call ourselves Googlers
here, keeping with the theme.
ZAKIR HUSSAIN: And
we are Googleplex?
VINOD MARUR: Yes, we
are the Googleplex.
We also have folks who've
joined us via YouTube.
ZAKIR HUSSAIN: Oh,
hello, YouTube.
Hi, folks.
VINOD MARUR: And
we have questions
from folks in the audience, as
well as folks inside Google,
but also your fans worldwide
who have submitted questions.
So you'll see some of
them come up today.
ZAKIR HUSSAIN: Wow, that's
very kind of them to tune in.
And I'm flattered that
you took the time out
to come and see me and hear
whatever BS I have to speak.
[LAUGHTER]
VINOD MARUR: So
to get started, I
thought it would be interesting
to have a little bit
of a word-association game.
ZAKIR HUSSAIN: Word association.
OK.
VINOD MARUR: So if you can just
tell us what's on your mind
when you hear any
of these words.
Take us through your journey
of those words, if you will.
Family.
ZAKIR HUSSAIN: [SINGING RHYTHMS]
[LAUGHTER]
Love, actually.
VINOD MARUR: OK.
ZAKIR HUSSAIN: What's the next?
VINOD MARUR: Travel.
ZAKIR HUSSAIN: Pain.
[LAUGHTER]
It is a four-letter word.
[LAUGHTER]
AUDIENCE: [INAUDIBLE]
it must be musical.
ZAKIR HUSSAIN: Oh,
it has to be musical?
AUDIENCE: The pain, too.
ZAKIR HUSSAIN: Pain
has to be musical?
Oh, wow.
[SNAPPING] Pain.
[APPLAUSE]
VINOD MARUR: That is amazing.
Technology.
ZAKIR HUSSAIN: Future.
VINOD MARUR: I'm glad you
didn't say "pain" again.
[LAUGHTER]
VINOD MARUR: Teamwork.
ZAKIR HUSSAIN: Respect.
VINOD MARUR: Thank you.
So you started learning
at the age of three.
Is there anything you
remember from that time?
ZAKIR HUSSAIN:
Well, first of all,
I don't think I started actually
learning at the age of three.
I don't think I really had
a say in when I actually
started learning.
[LAUGHTER]
You're in a music home,
you're in a musician's home,
you're in a drummer's house, and
he happens to be your father.
From the day you're
brought in from the nursing
home where you were born,
you really are inducted.
You don't have a choice.
And so it was the same with me.
What happened with me was
when I was brought home,
I think the second
day after I was born,
and they hadn't yet
chosen a name for me.
So it was Baby Qureshi.
That's our family, Qureshi.
So could have been
male, female, whatever.
They weren't sure.
Anyway, so even nowadays, I
sit in an airplane in a seat,
and a stewardess comes
from here and says,
can I get you something, ma'am?
[LAUGHTER]
It's got something
to do with it.
I don't know.
So I was brought home, handed
up to my dad in his arm,
and the tradition
was, OK, the father
is supposed to recite a
prayer in the baby's ear
welcoming the baby and
put in some good words.
So he takes me in his arm,
puts his lips to my ear,
and recites rhythms.
He did, [SINGING RHYTHMS]
And my mother was livid.
She said, what are you doing?
You're supposed to say
prayers, not these rhythms.
And he said, but
these are my prayers.
This is how I pray.
He said, I am the worshipper
of Goddess Saraswati,
Lord Ganesha.
And this is a devout
Muslim talking.
And this is the
knowledge, or [INAUDIBLE],
I got from my teachers.
And I want to pass
it on to my son.
He is going to do exactly this.
So why not start him early
and give him these prayers?
So that's what I mean when
I say inducted already.
I had no say in it.
Like it or not, you're not going
to hear [NON-ENGLISH SPEECH]
or whatever.
You're going to actually
hear [SINGING RHYTHMS]
and like it or not.
So from there on, I think
it was his routine every day
to sit for an hour or so or
two singing rhythms in my ear.
And the way he held me, this
ear was closed, so it stayed in.
[LAUGHTER]
So anyway, those went
in, so by the time
I was three when I could
actually reach the tabla
and had hands slightly bigger
to get on to the tabla,
I already had all
this information
in my head and this
big jumbled confusion,
which I had really no
idea what to do with.
And so that's when the tabla
was put in front of me.
And I started to hit it.
And at that point,
my father decided
to use reverse psychology.
So now instead of putting
rhythms in my ear,
he just disappeared.
It's like, OK, no more
learning or hearing
those nice little things which
put me to sleep, none of that.
I was suddenly having
to fend for myself.
And I guess his
whole plan was not
to overdose me with this stuff
so I would just go away and not
want it.
It was more like giving
me a little taste of it,
and then he pulled back to see
what I was going to do with it.
And at that age, I was
being put on a spot
to make a decision, to
commit to this or whatever.
And so I guess my--
what should I say?
The feelings or my instinct
brought me to commit to it.
And I started playing with it,
and if I didn't have the tabla,
I would see my mother's pots
and turn them around and play.
Once or twice I did it
with the food in it.
[LAUGHTER]
So you know what that did.
So anyway, that's how it all
began at the age of three
till when I was seven.
I rarely saw my dad.
I'm sure he was
lurking about, looking
to see what I was doing,
whether I was interested or not.
But it was mostly his students
who would occasionally
show me or do this or do that.
And they would speak something,
and I would already know it,
because it was already here.
And then it was a matter of
just putting on to the drums,
so it started becoming easy.
But once I was about
seven years old,
I had already started
doing school concerts,
playing in my school things,
inauguration day, this day,
that day.
So on one of those occasions,
he came to the school
to hear me play.
And I played, and that was
done and after that went home.
And at dinner, he
says to me, do you
want to study this seriously?
And I jumped at it, because
this man, being with him
and having him there, so
I said, yes, of course.
So he said, OK,
tomorrow we're start.
So that was a very
exciting night for me,
except for it ended early.
He woke me up at 3:00 AM.
I was seven years old.
And so when everybody
slept and it was quiet,
no phones ringing, no nothing,
we sat like this on our veranda
and spoke rhythms and talked
about the masters, talked
about this great tradition
and where it came from
and what it represented
and the importance of it
and the reverence that it
requires et cetera, et cetera,
et cetera.
And for the next few years,
that became the routine
for a seven-year-old.
Get up at 3:00 AM, sit
with him till 6:00,
have breakfast, get
ready, go to school,
but on the way to school,
detour to the madrasa,
learn to recite the Quran,
and then cross the street
and assemble in the St.
Michael's high school church
and sing the hymns and then
go to the classroom and start
learning, come home, and
then after lunch practice.
So that became the routine.
So I went to a confusing, for
many people-- being connected
to Lord Ganesha and Lord Shiva
and Krishna and Saraswato
from between 3:00 and 6:00 AM
and then between 7:00 and 7:45
dealing with the Quran and
from 8:00 to about 8:20
dealing with the church and
the hymns and the psalms
and so on and then,
of course, going
to school and then the tabla.
But what was
interesting about that
was none of these institutions
ever imposed their will on me
or any of my fellow students.
It appeared to be a
natural thing to do.
It felt like a
normal thing to do.
It wasn't like, OK,
I was doing something
that the mullahs in the
neighborhood would not like
or something that
the pundits will ban
or whatever, none of that.
And I was not made to feel
like I should do this and not
that, do that and not that.
It all appeared to
be part of one thing,
as it is, as it should be.
I mean, neither the Bible
or the Torah or the Quran
or the Gita or
Ramayana, whatever, none
has said anything different.
They've all said
love thy neighbor.
And that's basically
the gist of it.
And it appeared to be
that way in my childhood.
So I grew up, married my
wife Toni, who is here.
We had three ceremonies.
I have to give three wedding
anniversary presents.
[LAUGHTER]
Life is not easy,
I'm telling you.
[LAUGHTER]
So we first did
the civil marriage.
Then we did the church
wedding because the family.
And then to appease
my father and mother,
we did the Muslim
nikah ceremony,
so in three different
time of the year.
If it would have happened on one
day, it would have been easy.
But now I have to remember
three wedding anniversary
dates on three different times
of the year and all that.
And that and my
kids being baptized
and all that, it has not
felt that I'm struggling
to have all these thought
processes in any way
co-exist in my mind.
And this comes from
in the childhood
being exposed to all of
this as something normal.
And it was same with my music.
Everybody says 2,000-year-old
history and you have to play 20
hours a day for 20 years and
then you might be able to get
some sound out of
the instrument.
I think that's pure
BS, but that's just me.
But I was never subjected
to that kind of thinking.
I was always like, OK,
do it, and it's normal,
it's fun, take it easy.
So without the pressure,
I was able to study.
So there were different
periods from day two
till three, ding, ding,
ding, ding, ding, ding,
ding; from three to seven,
pat, pat, pat, boom, boom,
boom pat-pat, ch-ch-chh,
all that stuff.
And then from seven
onward, really
getting involved into the mantra
with my dad in the mornings
and then studying.
And then up till about the
age of 11 or 12, that carried.
And then I played my first
professional concert in India
at the age of 12,
got 100 rupees, man.
You could buy a lot of
carrot halwah with that.
[LAUGHTER]
Many gulab jamuns
later, I said, oops,
I should bring some of
this leftover money home,
shouldn't I?
VINOD MARUR: Well,
now we know a couple
of your favorite desserts at
least for your next visit here.
ZAKIR HUSSAIN: Wow.
Good.
Thank you.
VINOD MARUR: So you mentioned
your wife, who is here.
Thank you so much
for joining us.
ZAKIR HUSSAIN: And
my daughter is here.
VINOD MARUR: Yeah, your
daughter, too, Isabella.
How did you all meet?
ZAKIR HUSSAIN: How did we meet?
Well, there was this
Jack in the Box.
[LAUGHTER]
No, actually, I don't know
if it was meant to be,
but it just so happens that my
first-ever concert in America
was in a concert hall in New
York called Fillmore East.
We have a Fillmore
West here in the city
next to the dosa place.
Anyway, so Fillmore
East, and that
happen to be with
Pandit Ravi Shankar.
I came in, because my
father was not feeling well,
and so he was not
able to make it.
And I just happened to
be next door in Germany.
And believe me, in those
days for an 18-year-old,
it was a piece of cake.
Walk into the American Embassy,
give them your passport, say,
I want a visa to go to America.
Oh, no problem.
10 minutes later, you
have your passport,
nothing like, do
you have a ticket?
You have somebody who's
going to look after you?
Where are your
bank balance sheets
and all that-- nothing, none of
that stuff and your appointment
letters, none of that.
So he said, come over from
Munich and play with me.
So I went to the embassy, got
the visa, arrived in New York.
There's another story to that.
But that was my first concert,
and it was on February 22.
And that is my wife's birthday,
my first-ever concert.
So maybe it was destined.
Maybe, I don't know.
But I arrived, played
with Ravi Shankar.
Then I ended up in
University of Washington
in Seattle as an assistant
professor teaching.
I was 19 then.
And so I was teaching there.
And then out of the blue, I
get a call from [INAUDIBLE]
Ali Akbar Khan, the
great sarod maestro,
who has his music college
in Marin, and said,
my tabla player
has upped and gone.
Would you come and teach?
So any tabla player in the
world would give his left leg
to do that.
Hands you can't get.
[LAUGHTER]
Or a thumb or like
[INAUDIBLE] or whatever.
Anyway, so I said yes, and
I gave up my university job
and came down to
Marin and joined.
And a few months
later, I was sitting
in Ali Akbar Khan's living
room, and we were just there.
And in walks Toni, because she
had heard about the college
and met a friend of hers who was
going to come to the college,
et cetera, et cetera.
There is a story there.
And then she ended up there,
and that's where we met.
And that night, she
came to see me play.
And that sealed it, I think.
[LAUGHTER]
It's like, OK, he can't speak or
anything, but he sure can play.
And she actually was impressed
with the dance there.
There was a dance department.
And so she started taking
Kathak dance there.
And then we sort of met
more often, and then
I asked her out.
And then she had this great idea
of what Indian musicians are,
very proper and vegetarians
and all that stuff.
So on our first date, I
took her to Jack in the Box.
[LAUGHTER]
That's all I could afford in
those days, I mean, you know,
or maybe.
And then we went into
Sausalito, looked at the moon,
had an ice cream, and so on.
But I think what really
clinched it was one night she
lost her contact lens.
It was dark on the street out
there, outside on the street.
And I found it.
[LAUGHTER]
[APPLAUSE]
I mean, you know, there it is.
Street light is far
away, but I found it.
And so that really probably
impressed the hell out of her,
I must say.
So that's the story of that.
VINOD MARUR: That is
an incredible story.
Do you all ever
perform together?
ZAKIR HUSSAIN: We have
performed quite a lot together.
We just recently played
at the Kennedy Center
with my Masters of
Percussion and Princeton.
And we played in India just
last year and earlier this year.
Feb?
I mean, so we played in India,
and she danced last year
with me at Prithvi Theatre.
So that happens.
And I've also performed
with my daughter here.
VINOD MARUR: You
preempted my question.
ZAKIR HUSSAIN: She's
a ballet teacher
and this morning taught a
Bollywood class, Bollywood
dance class-- wow-- and
salsa and all that stuff.
So we've performed
together as family
in Queen Elizabeth Hall in
London and out here in Marin
and places.
So yeah, we work together.
My older daughter--
oh, by the way,
I'm now a certified grandfather.
VINOD MARUR: Oh,
congratulations.
[APPLAUSE]
ZAKIR HUSSAIN: Yes, I'm
trying four times as hard
to look young.
[LAUGHTER]
It's like, no, you
have-- whatever.
VINOD MARUR: You're
succeeding brilliantly,
let me just tell you.
ZAKIR HUSSAIN: I mean,
it's a good paying job.
It works.
[LAUGHTER]
So, yeah, my older
daughter has just
had a baby, about almost
11 months old in a few days
and who walked at nine
and a half months.
And so she's a filmmaker.
She has produced five or four
feature-length feature films
with [INAUDIBLE] and
various other people
and with Heather
Graham and James Franco
and all those guys and stuff.
And her husband was
first assistant director
for this show called "Scorpion."
OK, and so everybody is in art.
I'm very happy
that the family has
stuck to doing
something creative,
like people at "Googlay" do.
[LAUGHTER]
VINOD MARUR: So
the next question,
actually, we're going
to turn to the video.
This is from Shruti Shikanta,
and she has a question
I think about collaboration.
Can we just roll
the video, please?
SPEAKER 2: Hi.
I'm Shruti.
I work in the Chrome team
here at Google Mountain View.
Thank you so much for coming
here to speak with us today.
ZAKIR HUSSAIN: My pleasure.
ZAKIR HUSSAIN: I am
a huge fan, and I've
been to many of your concerts.
I especially love that
you play with musicians
from different
parts of the world.
So my question to you
is about collaborating
with musicians who practice
different styles of music
than you.
Do you believe that they
have to share a common vision
about the music that you
would like to create together?
Or do you think that given
enough time and mutual respect,
any two musicians
can create music
that they both like and enjoy?
Thank you very much.
ZAKIR HUSSAIN: OK,
well, there are
many occasions where musicians
are asked to come together, OK,
Mr Herbie Hancock, Mr. Chick
Corea, come and play together
or Shankar Mahadevan
and Shiva Mani
and Zakir Hussain all
come together and play.
So those are professional
concerts where you are paid,
you come, and you play.
And that can work quite well.
But I feel up to
a certain extent
the music that we play has a
lot to do with spontaneity,
has a lot to do with
instant understanding
and on-the-fly decision-making.
For that, you have to know each
other very well on all levels.
You have to know
the person, what
his or her dislikes and
likes are in terms of food
or films or politics or
anything, fashion or whatever,
apart from that, what
his or her family is like
and how they relate to music.
And so I have found over the
years is that I've worked with
many, many musicians, whether
it's John McLaughlin or Mickey
Hart or Giovani Hidalgo or
[INAUDIBLE], [INAUDIBLE],
Shankar Mahadevan, [INAUDIBLE].
I mean, so many others.
Some of them, I
have [INAUDIBLE].
Like I worked with
somebody call Yo-Yo Ma.
Have you heard of Yo-Yo Ma?
I was commissioned to write
a piece for him, a bass
player, a piano
player, and myself
to play as music to be
choreographed for a dance
ballet by Mark Morris, a
contemporary ballet composer.
And so I did.
But what's interesting
is that that happened,
and it has not happened again.
And there may be many reasons.
I mean, we know each other.
We still socially
say hello and stuff.
But that kind of understanding
of knowing each other
on all layers was
not established
like it has with, say, banjo
player Bela Fleck or Edgar
Meyer or John McLaughlin
or Mickey Hart, where we
know each other inside and out.
Our families know each
other inside and out.
We hang out together.
We exchange recipes together.
Edgar Meyer calls up and says,
I want to make salmon curry.
What do I do?
How much ginger should I have?
And then I arrive
in his kitchen,
and there's like
this much ginger.
And he said, is this enough?
But anyway, so the thing
is, that is very important.
Because when you get
on stage, you converse.
Music, especially
improvised form with music,
I believe should be spoken like
you speak in English or Hindi
or French or Italian.
So it's a language.
If you can form words,
sentences, paragraphs, whatever
and tell a story
in that language,
you are actually improvising.
Like right now, I'm
improvising in English,
which is not my first language.
I did not grow up
learning English.
So when I finally
came across English,
I had to master it to a point
where I could improvise in it,
I could think in it
and spontaneously
communicate with it.
So if you can do
that with the music,
you actually learn how to
improvise, how to be creative.
That's important.
So when you're playing with
musicians, that's what you do.
If I'm playing with
Shankar Mahadevan,
there would be a look
exchanged, and we'll
know where we are going next.
If I'm playing with
John McLaughlin,
there will be a phrase
played, and I'll
know a chain of phrases that
we will probably hop across
and so can anticipate.
Because he's not just playing.
He's speaking to me.
So if he's playing
a melodic line,
he's asking me, how about
going here when we're playing?
And I'm replaying,
saying, yeah, why not?
And that has to happen.
So that intimacy with each other
on all level accomplishes that.
So that's very
important when you're
coming into a situation
of playing with musicians
of different genres of
music, even musicians
of Indian classical music.
For instance, one of the pieces
that I did before my symphony
orchestra in London was
with the sitar player,
[INAUDIBLE] Niladri Kumar.
We did a duet.
But we just got on stage, we did
a sound check, and we played.
We never talked about
what we were going to do.
But what happens is this.
You're sitting in
the dressing room,
and you're talking
about cricket,
or you're talking
about the weather,
or you're talking
about politics,
saying all sorts of things--
Trump, do you believe?
Or you say all sorts of
funny things to each other.
And so you kind of are
gauging each other's mood
at that moment, where one's
mind is at that point.
And you're talking, and
you're walking onto the stage
while they are announcing you.
And then you get on stage
and you start playing.
But without you knowing, that
talk is now on the instruments.
And you're speaking,
continuing to speak, as you do.
When you go to a
concert, sometimes
find a way into
the dressing room
and see the musicians
sitting there.
They are talking
about everything else
in the world except music.
Yeah, [INAUDIBLE] and
anything about-- I
mean, did you hear
what that person said?
Did you know this happened?
And what kind of a car I want
to buy and all that stuff.
Nothing about what
should we be playing,
can you tell me the melody,
or what rhythm-- nothing.
And then you go on stage, and
the conversation continues.
So it's important.
It doesn't matter
whether you're playing
with the musicians of
same tradition of music
that you are from
or other traditions.
You must intimately
know them well to really
on all levels interact
and play music, which has
a spark of spontaneity in it.
Otherwise, you can just
accept a professional gig,
take a fat check, and just
get together, put together
a couple of pieces, and get on
stage and play it and go away.
VINOD MARUR: Got it.
Cool.
You mentioned you cook.
ZAKIR HUSSAIN: Oh, yeah.
VINOD MARUR: Any
favorite dishes?
ZAKIR HUSSAIN: Anything
I cook is favorite.
What are you talking about?
[LAUGHTER]
No, I mean I make good keema.
I make chicken curry, different
styles of chicken curry.
I do eggs not bad.
And so when my daughters
want some Indian,
they just, hey, Dad, cook up
some chicken curry, will you?
That happens.
And so I cook.
And all musicians are foodies.
Yeah.
When they come to the
concert hall, the first thing
they say to each other, where
are we going for dinner?
[LAUGHTER]
Concert hasn't
even happened yet.
[LAUGHTER]
We haven't even opened
our instruments.
We haven't tuned or anything
or done a sound check.
The first question is, where
are we going for dinner?
It's very important.
I mean, that kind
of expecting allows
you to get excited about the
journey of getting there.
And that part of the
journey is playing the music
and getting that over with.
[LAUGHTER]
VINOD MARUR: Switching
gears a bit, here at Google,
hard to avoid the
topic of technology.
What's your sense
about technology,
how it's affected you, how
you think it's affected music?
ZAKIR HUSSAIN: Well,
technology has actually
broadened the way
we think about music
and we approach our instruments.
Why, even present
technology-- go back
85, 90 years to
the sound system,
the amplification arriving.
And that was really a
big, landmark happening.
It really did a lot
to change the way
we perform music in India.
And I think it's the same
for music performed anywhere
in the world.
I mean, would we have
had stadium concerts
if there was no sound system?
No.
Not at all.
And would we have had
electric guitars and bass
guitars and stuff if
there was no sound system?
No.
So, I mean, music
has obviously started
changing from the time when
the sound system arrived.
Personally speaking
for me, I started
to discover semitones,
frequencies, microtones,
resonance, harmonics
in my instrument
after the mic got put on it.
And so suddenly, something
which was like pom is now pumm.
And something that was
boom is now boommm.
So now suddenly from the
boommm, you can go booommm.
You can do that, which was
not possible that long ago,
100 years ago.
They played music differently--
very hard, very percussive.
Even the sitar and
the sarod [INAUDIBLE]
was played very
percussive if you listen
to a recording 70 years old.
And something you will notice
is that the change is obvious
how it is.
So for me, having
discovered the sound system
and the frequencies,
I mean, you also
have to know what frequencies
does the tabla project
and then how to find
in the sound system
graphic equalizer,
those frequencies,
and highlight them.
So you've got to learn to
recognize all that stuff.
And then once you
highlight them,
then you don't have to now bang.
You don't have to
wallop the instrument.
You can just play nice and
easy, subtle, too strong,
whatever you want to do,
and be able to manipulate
the instrument not just
rhythmically, but melodically.
And that's what's
happened with the tabla.
Tabla has now become an
instrument that is not
just rhythmic instrument.
It's a melodic
instrument as well.
And that's invention
of the sound system.
And then once you've got the
sound system, sky's the limit.
You can now start putting
Ableton Live on it,
and you can start
processing the sound.
You can start putting delays
and whatnot and everything.
The question is, how
far do you go with it?
And that's very important.
I know some friends of
mine who are tabla players,
like [INAUDIBLE] or
Talvin Singh and all,
they have electrified
the tablas.
They have put electronic
pickups into the instrument.
And they put a cable
under the tabla.
And they put it through
all these electronic sounds
and machines.
And that gives them a whole
range of electronic tones,
synthetic tones, to work with.
So, I mean, you can be in some
ways pulled in by that so much
so that you actually forget what
the real instrument actually
is.
So I mean, unlike those
gentlemen who have done that
and have really taken the
tabla into a whole new genre
of music, which is drum and
bass and [? Asian ?] underground
and et cetera, et cetera,
and that's a great place,
I have resisted the
urge of doing that.
I still play my acoustic tablas
and-- through a microphone,
of course-- and deal with
the natural tone that
comes out of that instrument.
If I want to do electronical
messing with it,
I have found a system whereby
I have this gear going
through a computer,
where my microphones go
through a sound card
into that computer
so my instrument is not
electronically plugged in.
That is still acoustic.
So I have a choice
of hitting a button
and suddenly turning my
tabla into AI, Artificial
Intelligence, or turning
it off and just playing
a regular tabla.
And so that has allowed me
really a lot of leeway and kind
of a gateway into playing with
a whole different area of music
and musicians.
And right now it's under
repairs, my system,
and they are rebooting it
and upgrading it and so on.
Once it's done, I'm hoping
to use it again and play
for composing and stuff.
I mean, that's what most of the
musicians in India are doing,
film music.
They now use a lot
of electronic stuff
to be able to write
music and compose music
and work at GarageBand is
one of those kind of things,
a very simple tool.
So technology has most
certainly given us
a whole different
insight into music.
But the danger, obviously,
is that we tend to pile it on
so much so that the actual
character of the music
that we play, the instruments
that we represent,
kind of take the backseat, and
so a balance has to be found.
VINOD MARUR: Understood.
Do you use YouTube yourself
as a distribution mechanism?
What are your thoughts
on YouTube in terms
of increasing the reach?
ZAKIR HUSSAIN: Well, first
of all, I'm not tube.
VINOD MARUR: OK.
Got it.
Us [? tube. ?]
ZAKIR HUSSAIN: That
went like that, right?
[LAUGHTER]
YouTube?
VINOD MARUR: I got it.
ZAKIR HUSSAIN: If look
at you and say YouTube,
you will have to say, no.
[LAUGHTER]
So YouTube, yes.
So YouTube is a great tool.
It's amazing.
I mean, again, there
are discussions
about whether the artists are
getting the benefit of that
or in terms of economics, the
financial benefits out of it.
Most of the artists are not, OK?
I mean, the other
day we were looking
at YouTube or
something, and there
was some of my videos,
which had like 600,000
or some sort of viewership.
And apparently, there
is a way to go about it
and be part of it where
royalties come in for that.
But you have to
go to use so much
rigmarole to be able to
do that that it's almost
like you throw up your
hands and say, forget it.
But YouTube is a great tool
to get music out there,
to get information out there to
people about what you're doing
and where to come
and see you and where
to buy tickets and all
that stuff and everything.
Tweet is another one,
and all that stuff.
But YouTube gives you a chance
to be able to showcase whatever
it is that you're going to
be doing, say, in a concert
or on a concept tour and so
on, so that people can actually
get some kind of a trailer of
it and be a little bit more
informed when they
come to see you.
So in that sense,
YouTube is a great tool.
For me, it's been great
to be able to hear
music of the old masters
that has been on YouTube.
And it's like I wonder, where
did these people find this?
I mean, there's a lot of
stuff, and I listen to it,
and that's like gems
that I can learn from,
that I can take information
from, glean information
from, and just develop my
repertoire further and further.
So in that sense for me,
keeping traditional music
in view and great masters
of that tradition from 1930s
and '40s and '50s and
their presence on YouTube,
it has become a
great learning tool.
So I have to say
that in that sense,
YouTube has more
positives than negatives.
VINOD MARUR: Understood.
ZAKIR HUSSAIN: Yes.
But obviously, there's
always room for improvement.
VINOD MARUR: Yes.
ZAKIR HUSSAIN: But
musicians, I mean,
whoever runs these
programs or stations should
try to find a way to make it
possible for the musicians
to prosper as well
from whatever it is.
I mean, I'm not
saying that everyone
is going to be looked
at on YouTube forever.
I mean, you hear
of people who have
had two million hits or eight
million hits or something,
and they are making a decent
amount of money from that.
But then there are
Indian musicians
who really have no clue about
how to go about doing that,
and they just are not
benefiting at all from it.
So whoever is running
YouTube should
find a way to be able to be
a little bit more concerned
as a YouTube helm person
about less fortunate musicians
who need the help to be
able to keep delivering.
VINOD MARUR: [INAUDIBLE] I'm
going to skip the next video
question.
But roughly, it ties into the
follow-up up question which I
have for you, which is,
if you look around--
ZAKIR HUSSAIN: I'm
glad you told me.
VINOD MARUR: No,
the reason is I know
they've been eagerly
awaiting this particular one.
But when you look at
the younger generation,
there's a sentiment--
whether it's true or not
is one question I have for you.
But presuming it's
true, the trend
seems to be more towards
fusion and away from, I'll say,
pure classical music.
First of all, do you
think there is just
an artificial sentiment, or is
it something real you perceive?
ZAKIR HUSSAIN: Well,
I feel that there
is an equal amount of interest
in modern elements of fusion
and the ancient
elements of fusion.
And I'm using the word
"fusion" for ancient elements.
Think about it.
1,000 years ago in
India there existed
a music called [INAUDIBLE].
These were ancient forms
of music, which were
played in the temples a lot.
Then came the
Muslims into India.
And they brought this very
learned Turkish Sufi gentleman
called Amir Khusrow to India.
Amir Khusrow was a
master of Qual Qalbana.
These were Sufi forms of
music now popularly known
as qawali-- Qual Qalbana,
now known as Qawwali.
I should pause here and
say Qawwali is actually
the only seed Sufi
form of music.
Everything else is a copycat.
Remember that.
Amir Khusrow was really
one of those person who
believes in
universality, humanity
as being one, religious
elements not being the divider.
He was really taken by
[INAUDIBLE], [INAUDIBLE],
and dhrupad singing in
the temples of India.
And he took elements of
those and combined it
with the Sufi Qual
and Qalbana music.
And he came up with
a form of music,
which eventually got known as
or became popular as Khyal.
Khyal is the premier North
Indian classical form of music
that anybody from [INAUDIBLE]
or [INAUDIBLE] or [INAUDIBLE]
or Ravi Shankarji or
[INAUDIBLE], everybody
plays-- Khyal.
So fusion already took place
then, already was in place.
Now imagine this.
In its seed form, it had its
dos and don't and what to do.
But over the years, other
elements came into play.
Musicians moved to different
parts of the country.
And then they were influenced by
the folk music of that country,
of that state or that region.
And that fusion took place.
And suddenly you started hearing
pahari in classical music
or you started hearing
kajari or [INAUDIBLE]
or [INAUDIBLE] or [INAUDIBLE]
into classical music.
And all this fusion
started to take place.
So fusion is not something
that is like today.
It has been going on forever.
So it's not a new thing.
So all Indian students of
Indian classical music tradition
in India are already
sitting on something that
is a hybrid, a mutated form.
And so they're playing that.
Then came the sound
system that changed
the way the
instruments are played,
music is played--
another fusion.
So that has happened.
So what I'm trying
to say is that when
you talk about fusion,
you have to understand
that fusion is already in
Indian classical music.
Fusion is also considered
the domain of something
that requires drums
and bass and keyboards
and whatnot-- no, not true.
So in 1960s and stuff, I used
to hear Qawwali singers singing
Qawwali, [INAUDIBLE] players,
tabla players, mandolins,
banjos, all that stuff in
an amplifier or something.
So even the Sufi music at
that point became fusion.
So that happened.
So my understanding of this,
keeping all this in mind,
is that there is an equal
audience for traditional music
and the way it's growing.
It's still changing.
It's still mutating.
So that's what's
happening with it.
And then there's the fusion
known as fusion world
these days.
Like for instance, I played with
[INAUDIBLE] in Civic San Jose.
He sang [INAUDIBLE].
[INAUDIBLE] is an old form.
But he had a guitar player,
he had a keyboard player,
he had me playing
tabla, and I also
had some kind of a
drum set-up thing.
So he's singing [INAUDIBLE].
That is the form
that's going on.
What you have done
is you've put more
today's rhythmic and melodic,
harmonic ideas onto it.
But the core
element is the same.
So whether that is fusion
or not, I don't know.
So the core element is the same.
Where fusion
appeared in Bollywood
was way back in 1940s when
music directors started using
violins and cellos and whatnot.
I remember playing recordings
for music composers
like [INAUDIBLE] or [INAUDIBLE]
or [INAUDIBLE] or Shanker
Jaikishan and so on.
I grew up in that world.
And we'd be in that room.
Believe it or not, the room
was probably 10% of this size,
just like one angle like this.
And at one end, there were
two tables, tabla, dholak,
and a couple of chairs,
[INAUDIBLE] wallah and shaker
wallah -- ch-ch-ch-- that
stuff, and one microphone
in the middle, OK?
So if they wanted to hear
more of my bass drum,
they'd say, move the bass
drum a little forward.
[LAUGHTER]
There wasn't adjustment
in the booth.
You had to adjust it yourself.
So that was the thing.
Then just directly across from
me at the other end of the room
were about 35, 40 chairs,
violins, violas, cellos.
They were all laid out.
On the left of
them were the bass.
Left of the bass was the piano.
On opposite side of the
piano was another microphone,
and around that
microphone on tables
raised sat cross-legged
[INAUDIBLE]
on flute, Sultan Khan on
sarangi, Rais Khan on sitar.
They all sat over there.
And all of us-- and
including the horn players,
who were between the [INAUDIBLE]
rhythm players and the violin,
standing in the
center with saxophone,
trumpet, trombone, all
that, they were there.
And we are all playing for
a song sung in the booth
by [INAUDIBLE] or
[INAUDIBLE] and so on.
And in those days, you had
to play the song through.
If somebody made a
mistake, you stop,
and you did it all over again.
These days, you can sing one
word, stop, sing two words,
stop, sing a line, stop.
And not just that--
sing one word 500 times,
sing two words 1,000
times and so on
and on and then pick the best.
It wasn't like that.
But that was also fusion.
And so fusion started
way back then.
And then RD Burman took
it to a different level.
LP took it to a different level.
Bappi Lahiri brought it
down to a different level.
[LAUGHTER]
And so on and on happened.
But all I'm trying to say
is that you heard fusion
in Madan Mohan's song.
And they were some of
the most beautiful songs
that you will ever hear.
You heard some of the great old
songs of Laxmikant Pyarelal--
fabulous.
[NON-ENGLISH SINGING]
One of the earlier songs
of LP-- I played it.
[APPLAUSE]
So these kind of songs
were already there.
So fusion is good.
Fusion is acceptable.
Fusion is the next wave.
And when you say
the next wave, it's
not like for the
next six months.
It's been there for the
last 15, 20, 30 years.
And it will go on until somebody
finds another word-- refusion
or defusion or C-fusion
or confusion or whatever.
They'll find words
that will be different.
When John McLaughlin and I
and L. Shankar on the violin
and Vikku Vinayakram on the
ghatam got together and played
a band called Shakti
and we recorded--
[APPLAUSE]
You can clap.
It's OK.
[LAUGHTER]
I'll act properly demure and--
[LAUGHTER]
Anyway, so when we played
and the recording was made,
the head of CBS, Clive
Davis, says to John, John,
what should we call this?
John said, I don't know.
Zakir?
I said, I don't know.
It's music.
We had no clue
what we were doing.
For us it was just music.
It wasn't like a little
of jazz, a little
of Indian, a little
of South Indian
and some Qawwali
rhythms and all that
and let's call it
"confusion"-- none of that.
We had no clue.
For us it was just music.
So when musicians get together
to play from different genres,
they don't think that they
are creating a particular kind
of fusion music.
They're creating music.
They're doing a
creative process, which
they are enjoying and so on.
But Clive Davis says,
but John, I really
need to know what to
call it, because then I
can label it and put it in the
right bin in Tower Records.
And then we can also put
it in the right category
for the Billboards
award or whatever.
So they needed to
make a category.
So when we started
doing that, there
wasn't even a word fusion.
There wasn't even a word
New Age or anything.
When Madan Mohan did his
songs or Shanker Jaikishan
did his song, there was no
"fusion" word or anything.
But it was all happening.
And it started way back then.
So whether it's China,
Japan, you name it,
they all have influences from
different parts of the world
wherever the Raj went--
I mean British Raj--
and wherever the French went.
They all brought
whatever they brought,
and it just kind of made it.
So now what's happened,
which I like very much,
is that the lines are
blurred, blurred in the sense
that it used to be that
fusion music can only
be in the Western world.
And so it was legit.
But now, people
all over the world
are able to make music,
whether it's in Mali or Senegal
or in Mauritius or
in Tokyo or wherever,
and they are all
playing music, which
has an interesting drive
towards universality.
Instruments are common.
Thought processes are common.
And people are
starting to make music,
whether it's Japan
or China or India
or whatever, that stands on
its own anywhere in the world.
And Bollywood is a
great example of it.
It stands on its own
right here in America,
and people go to
hear it and see it.
And I'm not just
talking about us Desis.
I'm talking about the natives.
They all love to go
and hear this kind
of music and everything.
And so fusion, I don't know
if it's a category anymore.
Because that means that you've
tried to divide the music up.
Right now the music
is experiencing
a universal understanding,
a collective acceptance,
no matter where in the world.
So they might have to
come up with a new name.
VINOD MARUR: New name.
Got it.
ZAKIR HUSSAIN: I didn't
mean to lecture you,
but-- actually, I did.
[LAUGHTER]
VINOD MARUR: That was a
beautiful performance,
by the way, that you just
slipped in right there.
And earlier when
we were chatting,
you were talking
about Frank Sinatra.
ZAKIR HUSSAIN: Oh, yeah.
I've heard of him.
[LAUGHTER]
He's one of my favorites.
VINOD MARUR: Would
you care to indulge us
with a little bit of your
version of Frank Sinatra?
ZAKIR HUSSAIN: Well,
you know his songs.
(SINGING) Fly me to the moon.
Let me play among the stars.
Let me see what spring is
like on Jupiter or Mars.
In other words--
something like that.
[APPLAUSE]
VINOD MARUR: Trying to
stick on that theme, would
you care to indulge
us with a little bit--
ZAKIR HUSSAIN: Stay on the moon?
[LAUGHTER]
VINOD MARUR: I am on
the moon right now.
I'll be honest and confess.
[NON-ENGLISH SINGING]
VINOD MARUR: There is
this tradition of padhant.
ZAKIR HUSSAIN: Padhant.
Yes, there is a tradition.
VINOD MARUR: Will do
you explain what it is
and maybe give us a
small demonstration?
ZAKIR HUSSAIN: Well,
padhant is exactly what
the word represents.
In India, when you
ask somebody to read,
you say [NON-ENGLISH SPEECH]
or [NON-ENGLISH SPEECH].
And what he reads is known
as [NON-ENGLISH SPEECH], OK?
So as I said, music or rhythm,
they are all languages.
You learn to speak it,
and therefore, you also
learn to read it.
So if you've written a
story, you have to read it.
So the story is about Ta.
OK, Ta.
So Ta is friends with
[? Thetai. ?] And his
girlfriend is [? Thina. ?] And
the villain is [? Gayna. ?]
There's got to be a villain
or else the story is not
interesting.
So Ta, [? Thetai, ?]
they are-- you know.
Ta, [? Thetai ?],
Ta, [? Thetai ?],
[? Thetai, ?] [? Ta ?],
[? Ta ?], [? Thetai ?],
[? Ta ?], [? Thina ?],
[? Gayna. ?] So I'm telling you
a story, OK?
So in other words,
I'm also reading what
I have thought of or written.
And so I'm doing the padhant.
I am [INAUDIBLE].
And so this is what padhant is.
So when I'm learning
the language,
my father used to
tell me, take a phrase
and just get to know it.
Like as if it's a
person, it's a character.
Get to know it.
[SPEAKING RHYTHMIC SYLLABLES]
Suppose that's a phrase.
[SPEAKING RHYTHMIC SYLLABLES]
So this is a phrase,
which appears like this.
And what I have to do is look
at it like this, like this,
like this, like
this, all direction.
So I've got to figure
out how many ways can I
use that word in a phrase or
a sentence or a paragraph.
So that's what
padhant is all about.
And maybe that's where
rap first came from.
So if I'm going, [SNAPPING]
[SPEAKING RHYTHMIC SYLLABLES]
And that's straightforward
boom, boom.
But if I tell you
to every other one
clap if I'm doing this,
[SNAPPING], one, two, one, two,
and if you clap on two, just
on two, not on one-- one, two.
[AUDIENCE CLAPS]
One, two.
[AUDIENCE CLAPS]
One, two.
[AUDIENCE CLAPS]
One, two.
[AUDIENCE CLAPS]
So it suddenly becomes a groove,
like a drum groove, right?
So it's not just robotic this.
Mm.
[SPEAKING RHYTHMIC SYLLABLES]
Right?
So basically, now you feel the
groove and you can move to it.
[SPEAKING RHYTHMIC SYLLABLES]
I am taco, taco, talking to you.
[APPLAUSE]
VINOD MARUR: So even
in the short time
you've been with [? her-- ?]
ZAKIR HUSSAIN: So what?
[LAUGHTER]
VINOD MARUR: The amount of
knowledge you have imparted
is amazing.
ZAKIR HUSSAIN: Really?
VINOD MARUR: And we've
had the pleasure of--
ZAKIR HUSSAIN: OK, how
many gigabytes is it?
[LAUGHTER]
VINOD MARUR: I am
an old-school guy,
so I'm going with 64 kilobytes.
ZAKIR HUSSAIN: OK.
VINOD MARUR: So very
little RAM up there.
But we have some
of your students,
I believe, here personally.
And more importantly, some
of them have helped us
put a short little
surprise for you--
ZAKIR HUSSAIN: Oh boy.
VINOD MARUR: --that we'd to--
ZAKIR HUSSAIN: I love surprises.
[LAUGHTER]
VINOD MARUR: So if we can
get that video rolling.
[VIDEO PLAYBACK]
ZAKIR HUSSAIN: Oh, the video.
[DRUMMING]
[INAUDIBLE]
This guy thinks he's an actor.
- [INAUDIBLE] for being in our
lives and enriching our lives,
impressing us with the
opportunity to learn
and to study classical
music [INAUDIBLE].
ZAKIR HUSSAIN: Stop
being so serious.
-Thank you for bestowing
upon us this beautiful art
of tabla [INAUDIBLE]
percussions.
We're truly grateful.
I just wanted to
say we love you.
Thank you so much.
Big hugs. [INAUDIBLE].
ZAKIR HUSSAIN:
[INAUDIBLE] properly.
-I am a lucky student of
Ustad Zakir Hussain's.
It's been almost, I don't
know, 27 or 28 years now.
And the first time--
ZAKIR HUSSAIN: He's showing
he's got a lot of tablas.
- [INAUDIBLE] was
on a VHS tape, 1988,
at my grandfather's house.
And ever since that day, it
was love at first sight for me.
I really considered myself
one of the luckiest people
on this planet, and I'm
very, very fortunate
to have learned and
continue to learn
from one of the greatest
masters, teachers,
friends in the world.
-Thank you so much for
everything you have taught me.
You are everything
I aspire to be.
Words cannot express the
depth of my gratitude.
But hopefully this can.
[DRUMMING]
[DRUMMING]
[END PLAYBACK]
[APPLAUSE]
ZAKIR HUSSAIN: You get
the last word in, huh?
Only the tie was missing.
VINOD MARUR: We close
with one question.
As you look at
things like YouTube,
Google, are there
things that you'd
like to see us doing, whether
from a technology perspective,
to have music, or just humanity?
ZAKIR HUSSAIN: Well,
Google, I mean, I
would have to say that
the technology that you
are involved in, I
would imagine you
would say it's in its infancy.
It has a long ways to go.
And the sky's the limit.
And you've seen that there's a
light at the end of the tunnel.
But it's like looking
at the sun setting
and wanting to touch it,
and it's way out there.
And it's like with music.
I mean, it's about the journey.
You will never be perfect.
There is no such thing
as being perfect.
But the point is, you trying
to be as best as you can.
I heard from a great jazz
musician named Charles Lloyd.
Somebody asked him
and said, Master,
you were perfect tonight.
And he said that
I said, I haven't
played good enough to quit.
That is a very deep statement.
If you think you've
done the best you can,
you might as well hang up
your boots, power down.
So that's not what
this technology is.
This technology actually expects
that you'll be on full power
all the way through,
whatever that future is.
And so there are many aspects
of web technology and whatnot
that you are involved in.
And I imagine that it keeps
getting better and better,
and you're finding
new ways to be
able to make it more
user friendly and so on.
And there's always a fight
between Google Maps and Apple
Maps.
And when I'm sitting
in the car, my wife's
like, Google, and my
daughter is like, Google Map.
And I'm like, no, Apple Map.
And then we're like not
sure which one, but then
we finally end up with Waze.
I don't know.
[LAUGHTER]
No, but the technology
is still blossoming.
And there's a lot that's
going on, which I mean,
it's like you find something
and you share it today,
and tomorrow it's obsolete.
And so it's kind of hard to
tell what you should improve on.
I imagine that every
aspect or subject
that you have introduced
in the world of Google
or "Googlay" you will constantly
be upgrading or making
better or making more
user-friendly and easy
to handle for dumb bums like me.
But apart from there, all
I can say is more power
and go for it.
VINOD MARUR: Thank you so much.
ZAKIR HUSSAIN: My pleasure.
[APPLAUSE]
VINOD MARUR: It's been
an absolute honor.
Thank you so much for
spending time with us today.
We look forward to your
next visit already.
ZAKIR HUSSAIN: OK.
Thank you.
VINOD MARUR: And again,
thanks, everyone.
Let's have a huge round
of applause again.
[APPLAUSE]
[NON-ENGLISH SINGING]
[APPLAUSE]
