 
#

### Aptavani 12

### Volume I

Gnani Purush Dadashri

Shuddha Anami

Copyright 2010 by Shuddha Anami

Smashwords Edition

# Word from the Translator:

Please note that Gnani Purush Dadashri never wrote a word for any book. This book is a compilation of his spoken words in satsang, and Shuddha Anami is a translator within a collective, of the words spoken in Gujarati. Shuddha has been sharing the English translations of the words of Gnani Purush Dadashri on the Internet since 1994.

Gnani or Jnani is the One who has known, is in the experience of, the eternal Self. Purush means the Self. Akram Vignan means that which is attained without doing anything, and the science behind this. A gentleman by the name of Ambalal M. Patel became a Gnani Purush in June 1958. This happened spontaneously within him. The absolute light of the Self prevailed in him from that time. In that state of the absolute Self, he became the instrument for the salvation of the world. The words that came out through his medium have become words that are now liberating hundreds of thousands of human beings who were seeking meaningful solutions for their pains. These satsang sessions of the Gnani Purush happened in Gujarati and were carefully preserved and are presented as they are, in many different languages. They are all in the form of questions and answers from Gnani Purush Dadashri.

Aptavani 12 is available in two volumes. 'This Aptavani 12 is the collection in a book of that which equips those who have attained the Self through Akram Vignan, to rise towards absolute Self. These Souls are called Mahatmas.' These are the words of Atmagnani Dr.Niruben Amin. Aptavani 12 was made available to the world in Gujarati, in 1999.

The Gnan Vidhi of the Gnani Purush separates the Self from the self. The reader is requested to allow for the use of capital letters in the book, which have been used frequently for ease of understanding the message of the Gnani Purush. The small 's' is the self or the worldly interacting self, where the reader has to introduce one's own worldly name. The 'S' is used to denote the awakened Self after the Gnan Vidhi or the absolute Self. Similarly, the small 'y' is used for the worldly self, and the 'Y' for 'You' is for the awakened One. The small 'v' is for the vision through the worldly eyes or the physical eyes whereas the 'V' is for the Vision of the awakened One as the Self.

Table of Contents

Word from the Translator:

Samarpan

Volume I

Editorial

PREFACE

[1.1] Awareness of the Self

[1.2] The Awareness of Separation

[1.3] Converse to remain separate from the non-Self

[1.4] Who becomes engrossed? Who is the Knower?

[1.5] Selection of the seat of the Self or non-Self

[1.6] Scold the self

[2.1] The Knower-Seer

[2.2] Continue to 'see' what the self is doing

[2.3] Cleanse the pudgal

[3] Shuddha upayoga

[4] Anubhav Laksha Pratiti

[5] Charitra Moha

[6.1] Karma: New and Old

[6.2] To improve the conduct

[6.3] What comes first, faith or conduct?

[7] Real Purushartha

[8] Shukladhyan

[9] The Gnan that gives moksha in one more lifetime

[10] The glory of Akram Vignan

[1.1] Awareness of the Self

Knowing that the doer is separate is verily the awareness

Journey from the beginning to the final station

Awareness shows one ones's own mistakes

Awareness is not an effect

Presence of the Gnan is awareness itself

The luster of Dada's awareness

Not absolute, yet constant awareness

Pragnya and jagruti – the couple

Awareness is the main thing

No one was able to digest Kevalgnan in the current era

This is how awareness increases

Awareness increases by being near the One who is aware

Awareness in daily life interactions

The rubbish burns and awareness increases

Being around the Gnani increases jagruti

That which presents when needed, is Gnan

Bitter experience gives rise to awareness

Awakened awareness: convenience and inconvenience

Awareness even before a thought arises

Dozing off is a loss

[1.2] Awareness of the separation

Unaffected state despite mental, physical or externally induced problems

Would you not know your self?

The knower of the defect is the Self

Where is the suffering for the egoless body complex?

The inner state of a paralyzed mahatma

Profit-loss does not affect the accountant

The Gnani verily is my Atma

You cannot protect 'Chandubhai'

You cannot control the senses now!

The Self is the Self, no matter what state the non-Self is in

The knower is separate from the sufferer of pain or pleasure

The Self is the Supreme Self and 'Chandubhai' the neighbor

What wavers after Gnan?

The one doing the scolding is not the Self

Dada's vision of separation

Do mahatmas charge karma after Gnan?

Now attachment-abhorrence are discharge

Chandubhai in remorse and You in Gnan

In the eyes of people, are you Shuddhatma or Chandubhai?

[1.3] Process of conversing to experience separation

Understand the process of separation

The process of talking to the self

'I' too used to converse with Patel

About 'our' experience

Dada talks with everyone and everything

The Gnani converses with udayakarma

The Gnani's likes and dislikes

Complete separation in the mirror

Knowing one's self from a young age

And the Self moves away from the prakruti

Pat your own back

Converse with the apathetic mind

This is how You tackle the prakruti

Experience of total separation

How fast will a sick person run upon seeing a tiger?

Awareness against mistakes

When Chandubhai becomes obstinate

When someone curses...

Awareness against greed and pride

The Self is no one's boss

When the boss reprimands...

The unsupported has become supported

The Self and the non-Self

No connection between conduct and liberation

Reprimand Chandubhai, keeping him separate

Pratikraman destroys opinions

Satsang begins when You converse with Chandubhai

Join in with everyone in satsang

When someone hurts the ego...

The Wonder of Akram Vignan

[1.4] Who becomes the non-Self? Who is the Knower?

The Self never becomes the non-Self

It is an illusion that You became tanmayakar

Illusory effects are not Mine

Dada has given us the Self which is nirleyp and nishank

To 'see' unfolding of karma is Akram

Internal conversation is the separation of awakened awareness

'I' now functions in the awareness

The sign of not being tanmayakar

Even during worldly interactions, the Self is the knower

[1.5] Seat selection of the Self and the non-Self

The price of sitting on the wrong seat

Ultimately occupy the seat of the Absolute Self

Awareness is not dependent upon vyavasthit

There may be sweetness in the non-Self seat but...

The One understanding the Gnan is separate and You are separate

[1.6] The Self tells off the self

We need oneness in the home

Reprimand yourself strongly

Progress made with the conviction of one's own faults

The amazing result of the censuring samayik

For heavy scolding take the permission of the Gnani

One needs energy to scold the self

The one who sees faults is not You

[1.7] Awareness of separation during depression

No more depression on account of anyone!

Depressed, that is not 'I'!

The Self is truly found during depression

From the start, Chandu was without any substance

Depression vanishes the moment the separation is made

When depression comes...

When the energies of the Self arise, depression flees!

[2.1] Knower-Seer

When there is the Knower-Seer there is absolute bliss

Past karmas hinder the Knower-Seer state

The Knower-Seer is free from all responsibilities

Interference in unfolding karma

Everything other than remaining as Knower-Seer is interference

Knowing-Seeing instantly

What if the file goes without being 'seen'?

That is where it remains to be settled

Awareness increases by diverting attention

Do not look for the traffic to clear

Just 'see' the movie of life

Account of karma cleared through 'seeing'

Neither the film, nor the 'Seer' gets tired

The settlement of files is the function of the pudgal

'Knowing' the speaker is the ultimate Gnan

This is called the Knower-Seer

[2.2] Continue to 'See' what 'Chandubhai' is doing

This is the path of moksha

When the bad is 'known' as bad, it will leave

Sang, asang and ekant

'See' the one who has become engrossed

Doership is the obstacle, not the bad action

There is no Gnayak without the knowledge of the Self

During the entire life, the Knower remains unchanged

Knowing bad conduct is itself real conduct

Gnani Purush defines dosha

This is how my-ness leaves

'See' the good and the bad without involvement

Keep 'Seeing' discharge of the charge

Wedding music or the wails of death are same, as gneya

Complete discharge through Knowing-Seeing

'Know' also the interference and its reactions

Subtle difference between Seeing and Knowing

Each effect is Gneya only

'See' what is happening

[2.3] Purify the non-Self complex

Keep 'seeing' the internal garbage

Keep seeing the mistakes of the self

How long can Dada keep showing?

The one who soils it has to clean it

Garbage makes You stray from upayoga

[3] Shuddha Upayoga : Pure Applied Awareness

Understanding pure applied awareness

Whose attribute is upayoga?

Difference between upayoga and jagruti

Exact shuddha upayoga

Difference between Shuddha upayoga and Gnata Drashta

Who has Shuddha upayoga?

Vyavahar and upayoga are together

The Shuddha upayogi Sees no one as the doer in this world

To the One with Shuddha upyog, the world is flawless

Arrangement of pure applied awareness

Shuddha upyoga even while waiting for the bus

Awakened awareness's three shifts after attaining Gnan

Missed upayoga while reading

Upayoga while reading scriptures

The protective fence of remaining in upayoga

Special explanation of shuddha upayoga

Places which make one will lose the upayoga

After deep experience, upayoga is natural

Swasamaya, parasamaya and shuddha upayoga

...His Gnan, dhyan captivates the mind

Beggary of wanting to be worshipped

Shuddha upayoga is missed in trivial matters

How exact is the upayoga when one is counting money!

Shuddha upayoga even while reading

Pure awareness as the Self even while speaking

Shuddha upayoga of mahatmas

The way to remain in shuddha upyoga

Dada's Vidhis and Shuddha upayoga

Knower-Seer state even when doing vidhi

These vidhis will also help those who do not have Gnan

Vidhis done according to arrangement is not mechanical

Samayik, pratikraman keeps One in Shuddha upayoga

Arrangement of shuddha upayoga in the car

Now moksha will come ahead

The Self should not be left out of Your attention even for a second

Shuddha upayoga, in exactness...

Devoted to who? The non-Self or the Self

One becomes entangled in the bushes

Illusory attachment for Television delays moksha

Only the one with upayoga can remain constantly with Dada

This shuddha upayoga is at the gross level

Even then, it is shuddha upayoga!

Singer, listener and the Knower, always separate

Eventually it brings shuddha upyog

This is how upayoga is lost when eating

This is how upayoga is maintained while eating

Upayoga over upayoga

On the path of the Shuddha Upayoga as shown by Tirthankaras..

Constant Shuddha Upayoga itself is keval Gnan

[4] Experience-Awareness-Conviction

Attainment of constant conviction

Conviction of what you know will prevail

The experience will never be forgotten

The difference between faith and conviction

Conviction of and for the Self only

Incredible attainment in just one hour

The Gnani is constantly in the state of experience

The stage of mahatmas is eternal right vision

After Gnan, awareness and conviction

Gnanis do not have to chant

Chanting stops natural awareness of the Self

That which remains naturally is correct

Shukladhyan leads to moksha

Awareness of that which is unknowable

The President will not forget 'I am the President'

Why is the complete experience lacking?

The certainty of the exact experience

When can you remain as Shuddhatma?

The signs of the experience of the Self

Who is the continuous cautioner?

That which alerts the state of knower-seer

Sopportive gnan is helpful towards completion

Who experiences it?

Gnan-darshan itself is verily the absolute light

[5] Charitra Moha

Definition of darshan moha

The definition of charitra moha

Definition of kshayak samkit

What remains is charitra moha

The Gnani Purush removes the moha from its very root

Without kshayak samkit there is no charitra moha

For a Tirthankara, it is charitra moha from birth

After Self-realizattion what about karma?

Amazing! The revelations of the Tirthankaras

Charitra moha in the Akram path

Mahatmas' charitra moha

This is the fruit of the sown seed!

The activity of mind, speech and body is charitra moha

Settle discharge moha with equanimity

Charitra moha is purified through penance

Settle charitra moha with awakened awareness

The guarantee of Akram Vignan

It is charitra moha even when one makes excuses

Freedom from charitra moha by discharging with equanimity

Dada's charitra (conduct) is without charitra moha!

Agnas of the Gnani Purush destroy ghati karma

Gnan removes darshan moha and Agna removes charitra moha

The unwinding of that which was wound, is charitra moha

It unwinds according to the way it was designed

Charitra moha of the interfering kind

That which is not 'seen' remains to be 'washed'

The last soaked cloth will have to be washed

Settle the stock that was filled

Mahatmas do not have unfolding karma effect

Keval Darshan : Absolute Vision

Upayoga of the Self during discharge unveils bliss

Impurity through vishambhaav (ignorance of the Self) and purity through sambhav (equanimity)

There should be no scorn towards charitra moha

It is not Your charitra moha You are not absorbed in it

Become free from charitra moha by remaining separate

[6.1] Karma, new and old

Karma before Gnan Vidhi destoryed

Karma destroyed with the fire of Gnan

The bliss is veiled during bitter fruit

[6.2] Improving the conduct

Conduct is not be seen in Akram Vignan

Scolding not needed because it is Vignan

This is not a conduct- associated path

Internally Mahatmas are always in saiyam

Conduct will not change, the inner intent will

External conduct removed in the Akram Path

Conduct, thought and speech are not of the Self

Path to moksha is of internalized vision

Do not expect changes in conduct in Akram Path

What the intent was at the time of filling will be the intent when it is emptying

[6.3] What comes first, faith or conduct?

Do not find fault in conduct

Faith-Experience-Conduct

Eventually One will become a Gnani

Moha starts falling off

Pratiti is sarvaswa

It comes in conduct after it comes in understanding

Fragrance attracts people

Do not see their conduct but see the vitaragata

The process of purification within

[7] Real Purushartha

Real purushartha begins with following the Agna

Purushartha: to follow the Agna; to remain in the Agna

Knowing-seeing is the real purushartha

Keeping Gnan and agnan separate is real purushartha

Who make you do purushartha?

Purushartha as nischaya

Purushartha of the Self is on auto-pilot

Path of moksha, pure as pure gold

Get you work done in Dada's presence

Dada's final message to mahatmas

[8] ShukladhyanShukladhyan in the Akram path

Method of attaining shukladhyan

How to remember the Self

Shukladhyan as the Self and dharmadhyan as the self

No artadhyan or raudradhyan after Gnan

That is the final life

The Gnani Purush is verily my own Self

The four corners of spiritual development

Moksha attained simply and easily through Akram Vignan

That is called shukladhyan

Indistinct to distinct experience of the Self

[9] Moksha within one more life with this Gnan

The fragrance of each individual mahatma

Gauge to measure liberated state while living worldly life

Is there any hurry after sitting in the train of moksha?

What remains before moksha?

A greedy person and moksha

Who will stray away from the path of moksha?

Awareness at the time of death

Dada will take care of everything in the final hour

Death will be a blissful one

During the time of pain of death

One will remain separate in his next life

Will this Gnan remain in the next life?

We will go to Mahavideha Kshetra

Prosperity and joy through the five Agnas

The Self knows where he is going

In moksha every being is equal

'We' will be the last one to go

Can one fall from Mahavideha?

You have the visa; the ticket is yet to come

[10] The Unique Beauty of Akram VignanScience means cash bank

Darkness of infinite times illuminated by Akram Vignan

Complete surrender to the One separated Me eternally

From the second day moon to the full moon

What is to attain in Akram

The Akram view of acquisitiveness

When is there indigestion of Gnan?

Any fear of falling in the Akram Path?

When does the lifeless ego become alive again?

Three places where one can slip in the Akram path

Progress only through asking the living Gnani

Dadashri's experiences with five Agnas

Experience of Dada's Presence

Absolute God will manifest, if the intellect stops

Mahatma will one day, become God

Aptavanis Illuminate the Steps of Experience of The Self...

I really appreciate you reading this book! Here are my social media coordinates:

# Samarpan

The Complete Offering

Sthoodamaathi sookshma taraf, peysaadey barmi na Aptavachan

From the overt to the subtle, moves, the energizing sentences of this twelveth one of the Gnani,

Nathi maatra pathan kaajey, maange oondoo param arthaghatan!

Is not just for reading only, it demands deep effort to derive the absolute meaning, the Self.

AgnaO nu mahatva, swachhand nirmulan;

The acceptance of the critical importance of the Agnas, dissolves all self-willed efforts

Shirey Dada layee ley mosha soodhinoo saurakshan!

Then 'Dada' takes over all the responsibilities of protection until _moksha_

Gnata-Drashta sahejey sampraapya, shuddha upayoga nu nivaaran;

The state of the Knower-Seer is naturally and easily attained, pure awakened awareness unfolds

Barma gunasthan dhariO ! Paamo anant bhedi aa samajan!

O attainers of the twelveth level of spiritual quality stage! Attain this vision beyond all secrets

Pragatina sopaan chadhaavey, shikharey laksha dradhikaran

Makes one climb the steps of progress, and establishe the firm awareness of the Peak

Ek ja shabda pachye mandaavey, mokshana gabharey pagaran

The digestion of just one word, moves one in the depths of _moksha_

Aho aho Dada!Tamaroo vachanbada, shabdey shabda bhedey avaran

I am filled with wonder Dada! The energy of Your words pierces veils of ignorance by each word

Vamani laagey prachand shakti, ajamaavi jey 'pokharan'!

Against which the colossal energy of the atomic test at Pokharan is insignificant!

Gnani ni jagrutini jhalako, jhookavey seesha Gnani charan;

The glimpses of the awareness of the Gnani, makes the head bow to the feet of the Gnani

Aho ahoni ashrudhara, vanchata naa sookaava dey nayan!

The flow of tears from the absolute wonder, does not let the eyes dry while reading!

Baarmoo gunthanu vyavaharthi pamava, karo nitya aradhan;

To attain the twelveth stage in worldly interaction, be continuously devoted

Baarmi Aptavani kaajey, mahatmaO ney vinavan!

To the 'work' of Aptavani Twelve, that is the request to _mahatmas_!

Jagruti yagna ni akalpya samagrio nu collection;

This uniamginable collection of the auspicious sacrificial fire of awareness

Samarpan samarpan, Akram mahatmaO ney samarpan!

Is surrendered with absolute humilty to _mahatmas_ of Akram Vignan!

~Pujya Niruben Amin 1999

Aptavani 12

# Volume I

Purvardha

# Editorial

The _mahatmas_ of Dadashri, the revered scientist of Akram Vignan (the stepless path to Self-realization), have attained the Self. Now, they are to start the journey to attain absolute Knowledge ( _Keval Gnan_ ). They have to attain absolute Knowledge while fulfilling their remaining worldly responsibilities ( _sansaar_ ) and while staying as the Self ( _nischaya_ ). Dadashri has frequently explained about _mahatmas'_ puzzles about their worldly interaction, their difficulties in following the Agnas (the five cardinal spiritual instructions given after Self-realization) and about ways in which they can remain in awareness ( _jagruti_ – awareness of the Self). His spoken words, in different places, addressing different questioners in various situations, have been recorded in audio format. After transcription of Dadashri's satsang from all the various audio-cassettes; a 'necklace' is made from the scattered beads of the Gnani's wisdom! It will prove to be very effective for _mahatmas_ to progress on the path of ultimate liberation ( _moksha_ ). While reading, many things are clarified within. We feel as if Dadashri is talking to us directly. The reader should insert his own name in place of Dadashri's conversation with "Chandu". 'Chandu or Chandulal or Chandubhai' means the owner of the name, your relative self. In every sentence, one should move from the belief of 'I am Chandu', to that of 'I am _Shuddhatma_ (pure Self- pure Self) only'; 'I am not the doer'; 'I am only the Knower-Seer ( _Gnata-Drashta_ )'. 'Besides the Atma - the Self - everything else is 'not mine'. Everything is simply a discharge, of all that was previously charged. Only the stored baggage ( _bharelo maal –_ previously charged karma) is coming out. Under no circumstances are new causes being created in that. What You are 'seeing' is only the effect of past life causes. This has been emphatically reiterated. In reading this, a tremendous affirmation takes place within.

After Self-realization (Gnan), _mahatmas_ do not have to do anything except to stay in the five Agnas all the time. What have the Tirthankaras said? 'Agna is religion ( _dharma_ ) and Agna is penance ( _tapa_ ).' No other penance is required thereafter. These five Agnas are only for _mahatmas_ , those who have taken Gnan through the Gnan Vidhi. They are not helpful for other people. The person, who can stay in the five Agnas in their exactness, shall attain a state that is similar to Lord Mahavir's! He will become _ekavatari_ – one more lifetime before final liberation! Yes, the Five Agnas are to be followed with _pragnya_ (liberating energy of the Self) and not with the intellect ( _buddhi_ ). Agnas followed with intellect will not set one free from karma!

_Mahatmas_ are to study the first and the second half of this Aptvani very minutely. They are not to leave it alone until there is crystal clarity through deep-thinking and inner visualization or through asking questions during live _satsang_. Deep study is to be done. While reading these words one is profoundly awed and gets a high level understanding about the true nature of the Gnani Purush. While comparing Dadashri's words with the words of the self-proclaimed enlightened people, or the 'dry' (those without the experience of Self-realization) scholars; one realizes the difference between an authentic diamond and a piece of glass! Great praise to this unique Gnani Purush! Reading His experiences gives the meaning to the phrase 'Never before and never again'!

In various places are described Dadashri's experiences about the ways in which he stays in the awareness ( _jagruti_ ) of the Self, in pure applied awareness of the Self ( _shuddha_ _upyoga_ ), in separation state of the Self and in a state of absolute detachment ( _vitaragata_ ). This will prove to be the beacon for us all in the understanding of the goal and the mistakes in attaining the goal! Then the heart becomes filled with emotions of tremendous gratitude, "Dada, praise be to you! You have given this wonderful _Aptavani_ (speech of the One who liberates) to people of this era who are unfortunate in every aspect (from the perspective of liberation) and made it extremely easy for them to achieve liberation ( _moksha_ )!" Upon reading the words of the perfect experience of the One who has attained the highest level of spiritual knowledge in this era, one gets the freedom from the burden of reading all other confusing literature on spirituality. As soon as 'Dadashri's book is in the hands, the arms, legs and the heart start to dance!

I cannot help but mention a specific red flag for _mahatmas_. Dadashri's speech is on worldly interactions ( _vyavahar_ ) as well on the Self-the Self. The limitations of speech are such that two viewpoints cannot be cleared at the same time! Multiple balls can be pocketed with one stroke in a billiards game; this is not the case with speech; only one aspect, one view, can be talked about at one time. Therefore, when there is talk about the Self, "Only for the purpose of remaining steady in the Self', it has been said that no matter what interaction Chandubhai has done, You the Self are pure, you are the pure Self. And besides that all the rest are _paramanus_ (sub-atomic particles) which are 'not mine', it is only discharge and for _mahatmas_ , there can be no new charge (karma)." etc. has been said. And in fact, that is correct. But when there is talk about _vyavahar_ (worldly interaction); 'What type of awareness should Chandubhai stay in' has also been mentioned. What is ideal worldly interaction ( _adarsha_ _vyavahar_ )? When it is not hurtful to anyone at home or outside, it is ideal worldly interaction! If someone gets hurt, Chandubhai has to do _pratikraman_. The truth of the matter here is, this hurtful interaction is Chandubhai's discharge; however, in order to breakdown Chandubhai's wrong opinions about the other person and to purify his response, Chandubhai has to be made to do _pratikraman_ , with the awareness of "I am the Pure Self, I am not to do _pratikraman_ but Chandu must do it." Otherwise, it will be misused and it will spoil the _vyavahar_ and the person whose _vyavahar_ is spoilt, will have problem with the awareness of the Self ( _nischaya_ ).

Now, if _mahatmas_ take Dadashri's words about the Self only neglecting His words about worldly interactions, then it will create a lot of confusion and then one will not know where his train will end up!

What is the conclusion of Akram Vignan in short? "I am pure Self only"; I am only the Knower-Seer and whatever is happening in the self's life is the result of previously filled karma and One is to 'see' that. Now, where does one make the mistake here? [1] If one did not know that this is a filled stock from past life ( _bharelo maal_ ), it is a total loss. [2] If one knew that this is filled stock from past life but didn't 'see' it as a separate entity; it is a partial loss. Here, he allows the mistake to continue and does not oppose it. Therefore, he will not be able to know when He slips from the Knower-Seer state in future. [3] 'I am pure Self' and anything other than which happens that is discharging of the filled stock. It is to be 'Known' and 'Seen' as separate; not only that but there should be a strong opposition from _pragyna_ at all times that, 'This is wrong, it shouldn't be so'; then, we will win and the filled pervious karma will vacate the house and leave.

Many times, one will know and see that 'This is the filled previous karma' but then, the perverse intellect will deceive him within a short time and he will not be aware of this. And the intellect will take over and instead of allowing the vision to remain as a vision; the intellect will become dominant. As a result, it will place one in a position of suffering from the subtle ( _sookshma_ ) to the gross ( _sthool_ ) levels! Nevertheless, it causes no new charge of karma but the previously charged will not get thoroughly discharged and one does not experience bliss of the Self during this time. To be in the exactness of Gnan during all this, if one uses this simple, straightforward and easy key; one will attain the state of one more life before _moksha_ in the Akram lift. This is guaranteed! What key is that? Once the filled stock that is expressing is opposed, the possibility of getting engrossed with it is gone. Thereafter, whatever Chandu, the relative self, file no. 1 does, good or bad; if he sees a beautiful woman and he is attracted to her, even then it is a discharge of karma; it is just _parmanus_ getting exhausted. He is to go on opposing it and maintain that 'This is not I-the Self'. While remaining in this much awareness all the time, the filled karma shall decidedly get exhausted. The person who fits this much understanding of the Akram Vignan all the time, will be able, even in this era, to live in a state of freedom from all disturbances and a state of freedom from the worldly life, just as the Gnanis do, and attain _moksha_ in only one more life time. This is a fact.

Pujya Dadashri has said on one occasion that, whether Chandubhai does a bad deed or a good deed; 'see' them both. This is because the Seer is not at fault, there is no good or bad. The Seer is the light of Knowledge ( _Gnan_ _prakash_ ). Just as flowers do not give fragrance to any source of light and mud doesn't make it dirty; in the same way the Self is _nirleyp,_ non-taintable by good deeds or bad deeds. Therefore, the Self, is pure, but if Chandubhai does something bad, You, the Self, should remain separate and make him do _pratikraman_ and rebuke him. It would be a mistake if Chandubhai remains _nirleyp_ – unaffected. The Self is already pure. Thus, there is a wonderful balance between the speech that is directed towards the Self and the speech that is directed towards worldly life. And none of the talks are about one side only. Liberation will be possible only if both the sides; _vyavahar_ , worldly interaction and _nischaya_ , the Self, are balanced. Here, if there is misuse, no benefit will be attained and there will be loss. Moreover, all the karma in the worldly interactions are declared as discharge karma. Illicit sex ( _unhaq no vishaya_ ), meat eating and alcohol; these three are prohibited. As long as these three are present, there cannot be any talk of liberation ( _moksha_ ) or religion ( _dharma_ ). Therefore, only if this is understood from all aspects, can one start the progress but otherwise it will not happen with one-sided understanding.

Often times, _mahatmas_ understand that worldly interactions take preference over the Self and believe that they are told to settle the file with equanimity ( _sambhavey nikaal_ ) and thus conveniently protect their illusory attachment ( _moha_ ) towards that fie. They avoid coming to _satsang_ with this excuse. In this context, Dadashri has defined a 'file' as that which is likened to being forced by a policeman to eat meat (for one who is a vegetarian) or get beat up. But if one 'likes it' and 'does it' and claims that he is settling his'file'; then it is considered as misuse of Gnan.

Dadashri's unique speech has naturally come forth dependent upon the matter, place, time and intents, ( _dravya, kshetra, kaad and bhaav,_ respectively) and depends on the evidentiary instrument ( _nimit_ ). The reader may find a fault or controversy at someplace in the book, but in fact, not a single sentence of the Gnani is controversial. The path of liberation is a path of cultivation of the knowledge of each individual. In order to dissipate an individual's _prakruti_ (non-Self complex), Dadashri would screen his _prakruti_ as it is, and then make the understanding of Vignan, fit him. He had that surprising _shakti_ energy! Different remedies for different _prakruti_ are shown in the current volume and it is possible that may seem contradictory. If a hundred patients have 104º fever but an experienced doctor will give different medicine to each of them. Some will get medicine for malaria, some for typhoid, some for virus, and some for a kidney infection! Will a layman not see contradictions here?

To a person of strong mind who may have committed a serious fault, Dadashri tells him to rebuke himself (file one) forcefully. Whereas, to someone else He would say, "There is no need to rebuke yourself; just do _pratikraman_." This He would say to a person of sensitive or depressive nature otherwise he would go into depression! Moreover, while talking about the higher levels of Knowledge, he has said that the one who remains in the Knower-Seer ( _gnata_ - _drashta_ ) state does not need to do _pratikraman_. Now, if someone who is unable to remain in the Knower-Seer state takes up this sentence one-sidedly and with his own interpretation that, 'I don't need to do _pratikraman_ '; where will he end up then?

Attempts are made to capture the Gnani's speech that has become available over twenty years at various places and with thousands of _mahatmas_ , and to compile that speech in a smooth flow. If a mistake is found by a well-informed reader, it is because of defective compilation and not because the Gnani's speech is defective. Every single sentence of a Gnani is such that no part of it can be crossed off at any time!

Pujya Dadashri's words are spoken but naturally in the colloquial _Charotari_ dialect. It has been maintained as it is, so that the exactness and accuracy of the speech has arisen can be preserved without deforming it. And it's sweetness and it's 'heart touching' effects are a different matter altogether. And only those who enjoy it; know it!

Dr. Niruben Amin

# PREFACE

DR. NIRUBEN AMIN

## [1.1] Awareness of the Self

The meaning of awareness is to 'know' ( _janvu_ ) and to 'see' ( _joovu_ ) what 'Chandubhai' (reader to insert his name in place of 'Chandubhai') is doing. A person without this awareness is said to be asleep and in this context, the whole world is asleep. When one has no awareness as to what is beneficial ( _heet_ ) and what is harmful ( _aheet_ ) to him; for this life and for the next life, is said to be asleep.

After knowing the Self through Akram Vignan; the awareness of 'I am pure Self' remains permanently. This awareness never leaves at all.

The awakened One will see only his own faults; the One who does not see faults of others at all, receives the grace of the Gnani!

The awareness of 'I am pure Self' is constantly present after Self-realization (Gnan) however, that is not the ultimate station; it is not Bombay Central Station but it is the Borivali Station - a suburb of Bombay, the first suburban station on the outskirts of Bombay. After Self-realization, begin the 'suburban stations'.

By following the Agnas, awareness ( _jagruti_ ) increases, and as awareness increases, one can increasingly follow the Agnas. _Mahatmas_ have a strong desire to follow the Agnas, but karma come in the way and because of that, the Self-effort ( _purushartha_ ) falls short.

Awareness is not an effect; it is in fact Self-effort ( _purushartha_ )! It is not dependent on anyone; it is independent. Awareness is the Self itself and lack of awareness is _pudgal_ (the complex of intake and output, the non-Self complex). When awareness reaches completion, the realm of the Self ( _swa_ - _satta_ ) experienced, not sooner.

Revered Dadashri describes the experiences of His own awareness that, 'While saying the name of Lord Krishna or Lord Mahavir, their picture is seen and also their absolute form is seen at the time the words are spoken.'

Someone asked Dadashri how awareness becomes helpful to Him in the worldly interactions of everyday life. Dadashri answered, "We' (the Gnani Purush and the Lord within Him) never miss out on applied awareness ( _upayoga_ ) of the Self. 'Our' lamp is always kindled' -the light of knowledge is constantly working. We can 'see' those faults that were 'seen' by the Tirthankaras before attaining the absolute Knowledge."

Revered Dadashri never saw faults of other people. Sometimes, he would make a cautionary comment if someone made a significant mistake. If that person doesn't turn around in spite of this; He would not say anything. His principle was 'when you say something, it will remain as only words, what is spoken goes into theory but if one understands his own mistake and experiences it, then it comes in practice, and that is the right thing'. Therefore Dada would not try to reform anyone. He would sometimes give a hint to those who were very close to Him and have surrendered to Him. In fact, the awareness can be increased by doing the _Charan Vidhi_ , _satsang_ , service, and by staying with Him. The awareness can increase tremendously by staying in the presence of the Gnani Purush. Dadashri's outward stage is at 356º and within He is a perfect 360º whom we call as the perfect God, Dada Bhagwan.

The Self-effort ( _purushartha_ ) of following five Agnas increases awareness gradually and then absolute Knowledge ( _keval Gnan_ ) is attained!

Awareness ( _jagruti_ ) increases active applied awareness ( _upayoga_ ) and active applied awareness in return, increases awareness. To advance awareness to the top is known as the pure applied awareness ( _shuddha_ _upayoga_ ). Now, Self-effort ( _purushartha_ ) is the only religion ( _dharma_ ) that remains.

The state of subtlest awareness will arrive and then all veils will be pierced and that is when the Self reaches the state of Self-experience ( _swa_ - _samvedan_ ) which gradually increases to absolute distinct Self-experience ( _spashata_ _vedan_ ). Awareness begins after Self-realization and complete awareness is same as absolute awareness and that is same the absolute Knowledge ( _keval Gnan_ ) and it is the same as the _Paramatma_ (absolute Self)! Dadashri says that 'I talk to the absolute Self ( _Paramatma_ )'.

Dadashri says that, 'You are coming up on the path on which I have ascended'.

How does the level of awareness increase? After getting Gnan (Self-realization), awakening begins. Thereafter the level of awareness increases as one follows Dadashri's five Agnas. And what should be done to follow the five Agnas more and more? To come in _satsang_ and receive the blessings from the living Gnani , to do His _darshan_ , to do the _vidhis_ , all these help to follow the Agnas more and more. In short, if one sits near a sleeping person, he may fall asleep and if one is near an awakened person, his dozing will go away!

If there is attachment with the Gnani or the Gnani's _mahatma_ , this is known as the praise-worthy attachment ( _prashashta_ _raag_ ) and it will reduce worldly attachment and increase the level of awareness!

Thus, staying away from Gnani becomes a reason for the veil in the level of awareness. Therefore, one should keep on strengthening the resolve to remain in the Gnani's presence ( _saaniddhya_ ). The direction in which one's resolve is; is the direction in which the 'scientific circumstantial evidence' will take him; this is the principle.

Only an uncommon person is not helpless against the effects of _prakruti_ , the non-Self complex, everyone else is helpless!

How can one remain in awareness during the worldly interactions of everyday life? When the worldly interactions are clear; when no one points a finger at the worldly interactions ( _vyavahar_ ), then awareness prevails. The person who remains in the Knower-Seer state; his _vyahavar_ is always pure. When one is the Knower-Seer, the Self ( _nischaya_ ) remains in the Self and the worldly interactions ( _vyavahar_ ) remain in the worldly interactions. And the worldly interaction takes care of his body and all other dealings. This attention is paid by the _chit_ and not by the Self. Hence, the Self ( _nischaya_ ) is what is mainly required.

Moreover, as the number of files decrease, the level of awareness will increase.

Whose awareness increases? Is it the Self's awareness? No. It is not the Self's, but the one who had the illusion ( _bhranti_ ), is the One whose awareness increases.

When the unfolding karma effects are heavy, the level of awareness may go down; just as the finger held under water faucet will go down from the force exerted by the water gushing out a four-inch pipe as opposed to a half-inch pipe!

Awareness ( _jagruti_ ) gets veiled if there is illusory attachment ( _moha_ ) for the worldly life. Awareness cannot prevail in benevolent-philanthropic people if they do not have Self-realization because there is calmness in their life. And those people, who have bitterness in life, will have a higher level of awareness, after getting Gnan. They will have a different kind of calmness! Unfavorable circumstances are the Self's vitamin and favorable circumstances are the body's vitamin!

What is the connection between awareness ( _jagruti_ ) and the merit karma ( _punyai_ )? If merit karma is there, the circumstances will come together for _satsang_ , for Gnani's proximity and His service. Yet, if one determines that, 'I want to remain in the awareness, I must do the Self-effort'- this matter is beyond the merit karma's result, it is the Self-effort ( _purushartha_ ). Awareness increases as a result of one's determination ( _nischaya_ ) and Self-effort and not his merit karma! However, merit karma do help indirectly by gathering the circumstances that support his level of awareness and by gathering the circumstances for _satsang_! Awareness and merit karma are indirectly connected in this way.

This body may feel heat and uneasiness; who is the one that feels the heat? Is it the body or is it the mind? It is the mind. The body has nothing to do with it. The intellect shows and then the mind will take over! If the intellect doesn't say anything, he won't feel it. Thus, favorable and unfavorable circumstances are due to wrong understanding.

While going to bed at night, one visualizes Dada's face in front of him and falls asleep saying, 'I am pure Self, I am pure Self...', then what category does this awareness fall into? This is considered as remaining in the awareness of the Self for the whole night. Higher than this, is the continuous awakened awareness, the 'lamp' doesn't get extinguished at all. 'One' remains the Knower-Seer of the mind at all times. One 'Knows', as the thought comes that 'the is the thing to be known ( _gneya_ ) and I am the Knower ( _Gnata_ )'.

After Self-realization, if one is not in the awareness state, what is the danger? The loss is the same that he has while He dozes off. That which went away without 'seeing', will have to be cleared up again by 'seeing'; that much loss will be sustained. Since the Self remains separate, no new karma is bound but the old karma are not completed, and therefore, they still remain in the balance! They will have to be cleared up next time!

## [1.2] The Awareness of Separation

When does One experience the Self, as separate from Chandubhai? Once it is in his constant awareness ( _khyal_ ) that 'Chandubhai is the first neighbor.' The worry-free state prevails. When there are problems in the body ( _aadhi_ ), mind ( _vyaadhi_ ) or from outside source ( _upaadhi_ ), there will be the absolute unaffected state ( _samadhi_ )!

'Know' what Chandubhai is doing. The Self performs the duty of the Self and Chandubhai performs the duty of Chandubhai. Having realized the Self, the Self remains as the impartial Knower of everything, including 'how good or bad Chandubhai is. Dadashri used to say that, "If someone were to tell him (Ambalal Patel, his relative self), 'you have no intellect'- what would I say to that man while remaining in Gnan? I would tell him 'You just found that out today, but I have known this Patel since childhood! He has always had less intellect from his childhood!" Such wonderful awareness of separation this is!

You are the Self and Chandubhai is the non-Self complex ( _pudgal_ ), both are separate. The defect is in Chandubhai, not in the Self. The Knower of the defect is the Self! The body may get fever or become paralyzed or get burned; that loss is to the non-Self complex and not to 'Me'! 'You' never suffer the loss. These two are always separate! Some of our _mahatmas_ have experienced this separation after suffering from paralysis. When people come to visit them, the _mahatma_ tells the visitor, 'The one that you have come to see, 'I' am also 'seeing' him!'

A million people may try to get you depressed but depression will not come to You. If depression happens, it will happen to Chandubhai. If Chandubhai feels low, take him in front of a mirror, pat him on his shoulder and tell him, "Chandu, 'I' am with you; why are you getting worried? You go on doing your work!' If You say this, all the 'demons' (the depress him) will be gone!

If they come to take Chandubhai away to jail, You say, 'Go ahead and take Chandu. Did you bring handcuffs? At home, I had to close the doors and there, in jail, the policeman will close the door! How royal is that!' There is no pain to the Self. And the _pudgal_ that has turned towards the Self has no pain too. The problem exists as long as there is a _pudgal_ which is against the Self.

If the boss has gone out of town to attend a wedding for a couple of days and has handed over everything to the manager and if there is loss in the business, what concern is this for the manager? And if there is a profit, then too, what concern is there for the manager? Similarly, the Self has no concern with Chandubhai in any matters whatsoever!

In the stepless path (Akram Vignan), the _mahatmas_ have this experience of, "I am indeed separate" whereas, in the step by step _kramic_ path, even the Gnanis are in the state that, "It appears that I am separate"!

After attaining the vision of the Self, there is no bondage from the conduct, no matter what kind of conduct happens. Whose conduct? Whose vision? Those two are separate already! So what can bind? And for the One who follows the Agnas, there is no biding of karma anyway. The awareness keeps cautioning Him from within!

We frequently protect the self by saying that 'I am correct; I am right'. How can You take Chandubhai's side after You have become the pure Self?

After becoming the pure Self, are You to control the five senses? Where is the existence of the controller of senses? Whatever is left is _noskashaya_ ( discharge karma only experienced through mind-speech-body), and that is to be 'known'. Only if there is engrossment in it, there will be suffering.

In worldly life interaction ( _vyavahar_ ), to go on talking and to remain in the Self while talking; only the Gnani can do these two at a time. The Gnani's awareness of, "'I' am not speaking" is naturally there. Now, the Self can't become Chandubhai under any circumstances whatsoever!

After attaining the Self, if the non-Self complex ( _pudgal_ ) prevails in the pleasure of the non-Self complex, and the Self prevails in the pleasure of the Self; only then, there will be proper internal balance state! A withered and shunned non-Self complex has 'no entry' in final _moksha_ (liberation); only those with rosy cheeks and happy disposition are given entry in final _moksha_! Before attaining the Self, this principle is not applicable.

What is the highest state of being a Knower-Seer ( _Gnata-Drashta_ )? To 'know' and 'see' the mind-intellect-chit- and ego in every aspect and if the _mahatmas_ can't do this but can 'see' Chandubhai as a separate entity while Chandubhai is walking around and are able to see Chandubhai's whole body as a separate entity all the time, then too, they will start to become _vitarag_ (absolutely free of attachment and abhorrence). Mahatma will 'see' the outer part, i. e. the body's actions as a separate part. He lives as if he is not living! Chandubhai should be 'seen' as a separate entity in all activity. In the earlier stages, he will be 'seen' as a separate entity through understanding and in later stages Chandubhai will be 'seen' as another person.

Talking about His own state of awareness, revered Dadashri says that, "Many people tell me that, 'Dadaji, you look young' so, I too look in the mirror and see, Ambalal, as a young person. What others say has an effect within. I'd never say or believe that I am old because I am the pure Self. And You'll become what you say."

If Chandubhai's health isn't well, You should then 'know' that the one whose health isn't well is Chandubhai and not 'I' and if You say that the health is good, it will be good. One will become what is envisioned ( _chintavey_ )! "I" am separate and 'Chandu' is separate. One should never become one with Chandu. Interact with Chandu as separate. "Chandu is feeling hungry, Chandu wants to eat, Chandu has prepared food, Chandu has understood this, Chandu has not understood this." Use this type of language.

The Self is the absolute Being ( _Paramatma_ ) and Chandu is the neighbor, he is the file number one. Dada has drawn the line of demarcation between these two with the Knowledge of separation ( _bheda gnan_ ). Once the division is established that 'this farm belongs to me and that farm belongs to the neighbor'; will you forget it? All the turmoil is there because the intents ( _bhavo_ ) of the mind, speech and body, are called as 'my own' and all the turmoil will stop as soon as one says 'not Mine'.

If the laundryman wakes you up and says, "Return this shawl that you are wearing," you will not give it back. Then, he will show you another shawl and tell you, "Look, this one is yours," then you will then return it right away and take back your own, right? Once having 'seen' one's own abode, who'll sit in another's abode? As long as one's own abode is not seen, all this 'break-and-make' ( _bhanjghad_ ) will continue.

One person asked Dadashri, "How do You 'see' Your neighbor (meaning A. M. Patel)?" Dadashri answered, 'I 'see' quite well. This A.M. Patel is a very nice man. I've known him since childhood. He doesn't interfere in any matter at any time. In eating, drinking, waking up, in matters of sleep, there is no hassle. And he never harasses Hiraba.' When do the _mahatmas_ arrive at this stage? It is when the Self and the non-Self are 'seen' separate. You only need to strengthen this, 'This, I am and this, I am not', and remain in the five Agnas.

If someone scolds Chandubhai, and if he does _pratikraman_ for that, then that particular file will be closed and if _pratikraman_ is not done, it will remain pending.

In any situation, if You become Chandubhai instead of 'seeing' Chandubhai; that is considered as being negligent. There, You separate from Chandubhai first and later warn Chandubhai and alert him.

If some bad deed is done by Chandubhai, Chandubhai must feel regret about it. You, the pure Self, are the Knower of this. Here, You should give courage to Chandubhai; pat his shoulder and says, "I am with you. Go ahead and do _darhan_ and ask for the energies !"

Here is one incident that enhanced Niruben's awareness of separation and it had happened with Dadashri. One day, Dadashri said to Niruben, "You keep one disciple!" Niruben clearly refused this. She said, 'In Akram Path, the relationship of a guru or a disciple is not there, right? Dadashri Himself has assumed a state of the disciple of every living being in this whole universe, no?' Dadashri said again, "Oh! What's your objection for keeping one disciple?" Then, Niruben said, "Let me stay in your service, at your feet. How can I take on the added burden of a disciple?" Then, Dadashri said again, "First, understand my talk; You go ahead and make this Niruben as Your disciple!" Oh! For the first time, I understood the ultimate liberating meaning of 'absolute guru's natural state is the Self' ( _Sahajatma Swaroop Param Guru_ ). Since that time, my interactions with Niru started as separate as a guru and a disciple! I, the pure Self am the absolute guru and Niru is My' disciple!

## [1.3] Converse to remain separate from the non-Self

In order to be in continued separation from Chandubhai, the practice of conversation with Chandubhai has been proven to be quite effective. The most revered Dadashri Himself used to talk with Ambalalbhai; Niruben has seen and heard this! He used to look in the mirror, pat him on his shoulder, smile and say, "Is your health good? Don't be weak. I have infinite strength and you'll get all the strength you want." Sometimes, he would rebuke Ambalalbhai! Sometimes, he would even make fun of him.

The practice of talking to the relative self would keep Him in the state of separation all day long, moreover, He would remain very fresh despite doing so much work even at age eighty and He used to joke about this, "Oh! Nothing can touch you right? You look like a great God, no?" Then, Ambalalbhai would say, "No, you are God, not I." He used to joke around like this while talking to the self! Dadashri used to say that the conversation of separation (Self and the non-Self) started only after Self-realization had occured! Dadashri used to travel by third class in train and when his legs ached during the travel, he would comfort the self by going in front of the bathroom mirror and patting him on his back. At that time, He felt like the king of the whole universe! Dadashri specifically used to talk to the intellect, 'Now, you go to your parent's house and come back tomorrow afternoon. There is no business for you here.' And when the intellect shows the wrong thing, he would tell it, 'Why did you start pleading without being employed? Who gave you the permission to plead?'

When he started a new business, he would whisper in the steamer' ear, "You may sink whenever you have to, it is certainly not My desire!"

While traveling by train, he used to talk to his bags and while in the temple, he would tell the shoes, 'you may leave if you want to leave and stay if you want to stay. But I will be in My state of meditation!"

Do we not know our own self since we were children? The practice of talking to the self, results in, the separation of the Self from the self. To tackle the self, talk to it.

When does one hundred percent awareness of the separation happen? When You 'see' what the mind, intellect, chit and ego of Chandubhai are individually doing, that's when. Stand Chandubhai's body in front of a mirror; see him as a separate entity and have a conversation with him; one hundred percent separation will be there by doing this.

No matter how sick one may be, does he run away or not when he sees a tiger coming towards him? The energy is there within for sure.

When someone swears at you, tell Chandubhai, "He is swearing at you because of some fault of your own, right?" And who is he swearing at? The one he is swearing at is not You at all. 'I am the pure Self'; if staying in the state of the pure Self is not missed then penance ( _tapa_ ) has happened; not staying in the pure Self state makes You miss the penance.

In place of someone else rebuking Chandubhai, is it not better if You rebuke Chandubhai?

If someone beats you up or swears at you and You remain in a steady state of equanimity ( _samata_ ); know that the _kashaya_ of pride ( _maan kashaya_ ) has ceased completely. Next, examine the _kashaya_ of greed ( _lobha kashaya_ ). What happens if you lend fifty thousand rupees to someone and he denies it? There, You should stay as the pure Self state and even if someone swears at you, You see 'his pure Self'. Besides, You should tell Chandubhai, "Why are you doing this? The fault is of the sufferer here!" Even if you are supposed to collect a large amount of money, your face should not show the suffering and then it is correct. And if you owe a large sum of money to another person, you should be determined in your mind that you want to pay it back and then you'll be able to pay back. That money shall go to the person to whom it belongs! If You want to go to _moksha_ , the final liberation, there shouldn't be any pride or greed whatsoever.

When Chandubhai doesn't listen to even _pratikraman_ , then You should sit him down alone and give him a good scolding.

If Chandubhai feels a little bit of suffocation, tell him, 'I am here for you, right? Now we are two instead of one, in the past you had no support. Now, 'I' am with you!' From now on, take care of Your neighbor in every way.

If Chandubhai does _darshan_ , chanting or takes vows; let him do those things and if he doesn't do those things, it is not a problem either. "Chandubhai, settle with equanimity whatever comes your way!" Make this conversational interaction with Chandubhai all the time. No matter what conduct has happened, there is _moksha_ through Akram Vignan. Conduct has nothing to do with the _moksha_. All karma will be exhausted with this Gnan.

What to 'do' when the ego is severely beaten up? "I am with infinite energy" – continue to say this and do inner silent penance ( _tapa_ ). Thereafter, all the clouds will dissipate for sure.

You are to remain free from all types of insistences ( _agraha_ ). Exact Self-effort ( _purushartha_ ) has already started after the Self ( _purush_ ) and the self ( _prakruti_ ) have been detached as a result of the _bheda gnan_ (knowledge of separation) that has been attained! Now make the fiem decision to remain in only the Self-effort ( _purushartha_ ) of the five Agnas.

## [1.4] Who becomes engrossed? Who is the Knower?

After Self-realization, _mahatmas_ have frequently complained to Dadashri that they get engrossed in the self ( _tanmayaakar_ ). Giving clarification about this Dadashri says, " 'You' are not getting engrossed, Chandubhai is getting engrossed. How does the one that gets engrossed get to know that 'I became engrossed'?! Therefore, the 'Knower' is separate from this!" Which part gets engrossed? There is a certain energy in the non-Self complex and it is mainly the intellect and sometimes the ego that gets engrossed and yet, the pure Self never becomes engrossed.

Why does one get engrossed? Is it because there is less awareness? No, that's not the case. What happens is that there is so much force of karma that it may appear to one that the awareness has been displaced!

Even if there is engrossment, new karma doesn't get charged, now that one has attained the Self? If the clothes didn't get washed properly the first time, wash them again! It is a simple and straight approach, right?

After getting engrossed in some activity, who brings You back to awareness ( _laksha_ ) of the pure Self? Where is the need to bring back? Even at that time of engrossment, the Self was already in the state of the light of Knowledge. Here, the tendencies of chit get engrossed and it is those tendencies themselves that return to their own abode after a while. And then One 'feels' that the attention has returned! Therefore, getting engrossed is only an illusion ( _bhranti_ )! 'One' is to become free from where previously attachment-abhorrence was done.

It is sometimes felt that the engrossment happens in different degrees. Oh, does a thermometer itself, ever get fever? The Self is like a thermometer! It 'shows' all and yet remains untouched ( _nirleyp_ ).

No matter how much distance is measured by it, does a yardstick get longer or shorter? A place may be measured as long or short, the yardstick doesn't get attached to anything, does it? There is only the illusion that the yardstick became shorter or longer! Do two eternal elements ever become one form? The Self is the Knower ( _Gnata_ ) and Chandubhai is to be known ( _gneya_ ). Thus, the Knower and the thing to be known can never be one!

Know that getting engrossed is an illusory result ( _bhasyaman_ _parinam_ ). 'The illusory result isn't Mine'- as long as this prevails, the awareness will be present.

What gets engrossed in the unfolding karma is the ego itself. It is only this ego that feels the sweetness or the bitterness in the unfolding karma effect and gets engrossed in it! If 'You' 'see' the unfolding karma, there is separation from it, and if it is not 'seen', it is known as remaining silent ( _maun_ ) and because of that, the unfolding karma shall stick around.

The 'I' that was in the form Chandulal, 'I am Chandulal' ( _pratishthit atma_ ) attains a state of awakened awareness ( _jagruti_ ) now. After getting the Gnan, one does not become the absolute Self. It is the _pratishthit atma_ that still has the residual belief of 'I am this' that gets engrossed. One has become free from the self, but the belief has stayed makes one get engrossed somewhere and the awakened awareness ( _jagruti_ ) that has happened prevents You, the awakened One, from becoming engrossed.

After attaining the Gnan (the Self) the self is the _gneya_ (that which is to be known), it is in the form of discharge only; whereas, before Gnan, the self was the knower ( _gnata, not Gnata_ ). Now, the awakened awareness ( _jagruti_ ) becomes the Knower and yet the absolute Self is quite far away! Once the _jagruti_ becomes complete, continuous, then it becomes one with the, absolute Self. Thereafter there is no interference ( _dakho_ ) at all. Until then prevails in the state of the 'moving towards the absolute Self' ( _antaratma_ _dasha_ ). The ' moving towards the non-Self' ( _bahirmukhi dasha_ ) is gone and the 'movement towards the absolute Self has begun ( _antaratma dasha_ ). When the _antaratma dasha_ completes, the state of the absolute Self ( _Parmatama_ ) is attained!

What are the signs that One has not become engrossed? While talking to someone, the slightest effect is not seen on the face. He talks while 'He' 'sees' Chandubhai as a separate entity, as if a third person is speaking; then Self is separate.

It is not necessary to keep the Self present while doing the activities of worldly interactions. The activities of worldly interactions will be readily completed by scientific circumstantial evidence. Included in these activities are: - body, mind, the inner instruments ( _antahkaram_ ), merit karma and demerit karma. The Self doesn't get engrossed in the activities of worldly interaction at all. These activities are done verily by the intellect and ego! In fact, it is the intellect that is behind all the worldly activities and along with it the ego gets involved and then, it seems that the Self has become engrossed. How should 'You' be in this situation? 'You' are to remain the 'Knower' and the 'Seer' of the knowledge that the intellect is engaged and that the 'good' or the 'bad' has happened. Thus the Self is only the 'Knower' and what gets engrossed here are the intellect and the ego.

In the stepless path of Akram Vignan, the understanding about the separation of the awakened awareness of the Self, from the _pratishthit atma_ and its inner components is given in totality and that is the reason for the experience of total freedom even while one stays in the worldly life's interactions. In the _kramic_ (step by step) path to liberation, this vision opens up gradually as one goes through the process of gradually renouncing all the acquisitiveness in worldly interaction.

## [1.5] Selection of the seat of the Self or non-Self

In worldly interactions, Chandubhai does interference and creates problems , why is that? He sits on Chandubhai's seat instead of pure Self's seat. He doesn't get up immediately even though he feels the shock while on Chandu's seat! Therefore, Chandubhai has to suffer. 'You' are to 'see' this. Chandubhai may nag, 'You' are to 'see' that too and 'You' are to 'see' all his activities!

One goes on occupying all kinds of seats, gets the experience of the seats and then writes them off. In the end, when there is complete and total experience that the seat of the Self is the best of all seats, he doesn't change the seat! It can't happen without doing this. All this must be proven by experience.

'I am not able to tolerate this'- when this happens, one has sat on the seat of the non-Self!

The seat of the non-Self brings sweetness, one stays on that seat, this is true especially for women!

Dadashri tells us of His own experience, "Before Gnan, I did not feel pleasure in this worldly life, even for one moment. I felt pain in everything. I couldn't tolerate the 'I-ness' even for one second. All of that vanished as soon as I attained Gnan! This change in seat that happened; it had happened but naturally! I did not know anything before this!" How magnificent was Dadashri's stage!

One man said, "Dada, I listened to your talks. It felt very good." Then, Dadahsri said, "Now, You pay attention to this. The listener is separate, the one who pays attention or doesn't pay attention is separate and 'You' are separate from all that." This is also the case for the One who talks all this. You tell Chandubhai, "I am 'seeing' and you are to pay attention to what Dadashri has said."

And how pleased would Dadashri be with the _mahatma_ who pays constant attention to this?

## [1.6] Scold the self

_Mahatmas_ feel powerless against the obstructions of in their non-Self complex ( _prakruti_ ). In spite of doing excellent Self-effort and many _pratikramans_ and in spite of strong decision and resolve etc. etc.; _prakruti-_ file number one, turns them around and file number one's power takes over! In spite of being alert within, these obstructions enter through the back door and take over the power and this invites the wandering around! There, all the Gnan based instruments are blunted. For this situation, Dadashri has put forward an extraordinary experiment for _mahatmas_. It has been proven to be tremendously effective. Sit alone privately on the terrace and loudly scold the file number one, the self. File number one is exactly seen as a separate entity, also seen is the crying of file one, the rebuking done to it is seen as separate. Scold the file a lot, that, "You worthless, you rascal, is this why I fed you milk - to make you a snake?" If Chandubhai is scolded this way, all the opposition will be severed and You will become stronger as the Self.

Who is rebuking whom here? The direct light of Self along with its' group ( _Pragnya_ _samiti_ ) rebukes the indirect light of intellect/ignorance, along with its' group ( _agnya_ _samiti_ ) and the Knower of all this is the pure Self! In the beginning when this rebuking is done; file number one will get quite depressed. Later on, this depression will gradually go away and great inner bliss will be experienced! And this rebuke _samayik_ experiment can be conducted only after taking _agna_ (permission) from the present living Gnani. It should not be done without his permission. Otherwise, it may result in wrong effect. If there is quite a bit of depression, go in front of a mirror, pat your shoulder and give comfort (to file no. one) by saying, "I am with you!" Moreover, even if there may be depression outwardly, you will be happy inwardly that You are now on the right track. This is Dadashri's complete scientific approach that is suitable for this current time.

Insistence is a disease. To be free from it, separate from Chandubhai. Chandubhai is the one with insistence and You are the Knower. This is how insistence is resolved automatically!Dadashri describes the illusory attachment ( _moha_ ) at the time of his marriage, "I am able to 'see' the matrimonial altar. The turban over my head had moved and I saw that _moha_ move away. 'Then you had a thought about becoming a widower!' says Dadashri to A.M.Patel. You can even converse with yourself in this way.

'Your' job is to organize your self. Sometime You rebuke your self and if there is depression, you pat your self on the back, encourage your self in a new and different way and thus You can see within and organize your self!

[1.7] Awareness of separation against depression.

There may be depression if someone insults you or if a heavy loss has been incurred. You have to take care of the self. You have to help elevate Chandubhai and tell him, "You are endowed with merit karma; why else could you meet with a Gnani? You have been confirmed to get _moksha_. What is there to worry about now?" Then, there will be total balance along with the awareness of separation as the Self!

If One maintains absolute equanimity ( _samata_ ) during depression, the experience of the Self increases and if remedy for depression is done, one will sink into the worldly life.

Depression is an opportunity for penance ( _tapa_ ). The Self energy rises in this penance. When there is pain from the body or from outside sources, the Self manifests itself! Therefore, depression is worth welcoming. Its' remedy should not be done. This Akram Vignan is such that even if an atom bomb blast happens, it will not cause one to be away from the Self and it will not cause depression! How can a fox cause trouble for a lion's off-springs? Whatever happens will happen to the matter, it will not happen to the pure Self. And we are pure Souls only!

What is the root cause of depression? Weakness and thievish inner intent is the root cause. How can depression affect those who are pure in heart and have pure inner intents?

The One, who lives in the present all the time does not get affected by depression.

Just as the Self is the Knower during depression, the Self is to remain as a Knower during elevation. As long as one becomes elevated, depression will surely follow!

If someone rebukes Chandubhai, be happy inwardly and talk to Chandubhai, "You were showing off and this is the result of it now! Do _pratikraman_ now!" The place where 'You' are at, there is no depression there! Where there is salvation for the world, that place is 'Our' place! The One who conducts himself this way will have prompt progress!

## [2.1] The Knower-Seer

The cardinal intrinsic quality of the Self is Knower-Seer ( _Gnata-Drashta_ ) and absolute bliss ( _param ananda_ ) state. Where the Knower-Seer state is absent, there is illusion ( _bhranti_ ). Who can remain in the Knower-Seer state without interruption? A Gnani can.

Previous karma obstruct _mahatmas_ to be in the Knower-Seer state. One is to keep the relations as Knower ( _Gnata_ ) with the unfolding previous karma ( _gneya_ ) and thus be free from them. Whatever comes 'Your' way now is all in the form of the thing to be known ( _gneya_ ). The only thing You need to check is to see to whether attachment-abhorrence is decreasing or not. The Self, is the Knower, it is _vitarag,_ free of all attachment or abhorrence and the _gneya_ is also _vitarag_. And it is the ego in the middle that does attachment-abhorrence. After Gnan, the ego is gone. After this, the Self remains free of attachment with _gneya_. No attachment and abhorrence. If any fault happens about this, do _pratikraman_.

After Gnan, You, the Knower-Seer are not responsible for the 'foreign' the non-Self. Yet, _mahatmas_ have this regret that the Knower-Seer state does not remain continuously. It comes and goes, it comes and goes- this is what happens. Giving clarification to this, Dadashri says, "That will go away. If it remains continuously, You have become a God! Worldly karma are still pending and You have to settle them, right? As the karma decrease, the awareness ( _laksha_ ) will remain increasingly! And the karma will also fall off by remaining the Knower-Seer.

How does one determine whether it is the intellect or Gnan that is functioning at a particular moment? When the unfolding karma are interfered with, it is the intellect that is functioning and when there is no interference with the unfolding karma, it is the Gnan that is functioning at the moment. All interference is from intellect only. It is the intellect that creates all the entanglements.

What should be done when ignorance takes effect on _mahatmas_ and prevents them from staying in Gnan? Dadashri tells us that if 'You' remain separate from Chandubhai, You are free from effects of ignorance. Nothing can touch You then. "When will these effective situations improve and when will they resolve?" The functions of these two aspects are very different. If you put your hand in the effect, you will get burned. If _pratikraman_ is done, you can be free.The intellect keeps the account book; the Lord doesn't keep account at all! One is made to give or take by one's unfolding karma. _Mahatmas_ already have right Knowledge ( _samyak Gnan_ ) but they don't have the absolute Knowledge ( _keval Gnan_ ). That is why the interferences happen! For that reason, when _mahatmas_ have thoughts of interference they should do _pratikraman_ and then there will be no further interference. Turn it around before the interference can happen. It is better to do _pratikraman_ if One can't remain in the exact Knower-Seer state!

While talking to someone, if one can't remain in the Knower-Seer state, one has that much less awareness. Even if the awareness comes back later, it is sufficient. If one can't remain the Knower-Seer at that time, that karma will return again. Eventually, one will have to settle it by remaining as Knower-Seer whether it is about talking or about eating or about any other circumstance. If _mahatmas_ do Self-effort, the files can be settled in this very lifetime. If there are pending files, they will accompany You in the next life. You are allowed to do any of the two.

When a thought comes to mind and You can't remain its Knower-Seer, divert 'Your' attention elsewhere; do _vidhi_ or chant Trimantra. However, the benefit from doing this is not as good as being the Knower-Seer, it will be less. Knower-Seer is the topmost real Self-effort. In short, if You settle off the file by 'seeing', it won't return and if You missed 'seeing' it, it will return. Why does One miss 'seeing' these files? Can you see the other side of the road if there are double-decker buses crossing your view? And what happens after the buses have passed through? Did the seer and the things to be seen vanish away when the buses blocked the way and you couldn't see? No. The Self is like a mirror. Whatever comes before it, gets illuminated in its light. Then, it will 'see' the decorated shops on the other side of the road and also 'see' the double-decker buses that are going across!How can 'One' stop these 'buses'? They can't be stopped. This is the account of previous karma! So then, 'see' and clear these karma. After they are all settled off, a state similar to Dadashri will be attained! One _mahatma_ told Dadashri that he struggles a lot to 'Know-See' at the time of unfolding karma effects. Dadashri clarified this, "Who is the one that struggles? Is he the one who gets engrossed? It is the non-Self complex known as Chandubhai that struggles. You are already the pure Self. You go on 'seeing' this film. Would you like it if there was a scene about wedding in the movie all the time? You will enjoy it if there are different scenes in the film like fighting, a tragedy, abduction and all different types of scenes. You, the pure Self are to 'see' Chandubhai's film from now on. Then, the bliss will never leave You. Does the film tell you 'take me with you'? It says, 'see and go'. Does it tell you, 'you stick glue to me and take me with you'? And while the film is running, can the viewer cut the film half way if he dislikes it? He has to finish seeing it. What is the problem for the viewer then? The film and the Seer are such that they never get tired!"

Whether one has done the settlement with equanimity or not is the religion of the non-Self complex and to Know this is the religion of the Self. Both are separate altogether! How can You get involved in the non-Self's troubles? Whether the inner intents are good or bad; 'see' them too. If bad inner intents come out, You tell Chandubhai, "Oh, oh, I considered you as a worthy person but you turned out to be unworthy." Thus, 'You' are to 'see' Chandubhai's inner intents, his actions and his speech. It is best to 'see' them at the time they happen and if not 'seen' then, 'see' them after a little while and thus get separated from them.

To 'see' when Chandubhai is speaking is the final Gnan. All the Gnanis used to do only this. Krishna, Ram, Mahavir did this only!

## [2.2] Continue to 'see' what the self is doing

What is the path of _moksha_? The world is in the form of 'scientific circumstantial evidences'. It is the circumstances that do everything and it is the Self that 'knows' everything. 'You' go on 'knowing'. Due to the force of circumstances, a non-Self state ( _vibhav dasha_ ) of Self is arises from natural state (the Self) and one becomes an instrumental doer ( _naimittic karta_ ) there; One is not a doer in-fact. When Chandubhai is 'seen' as an altogether separate entity- totally separate; it is the final Knowledge. Lord Mahavir used to 'see' one non-Self complex only, His _pudgal_. These old habits that are there will leave slowly as a result of this awareness ( _jagruti_ ).

Dadashri says that if a butcher gets this Gnan and remains as the Self, and 'sees' everything, does not interference and remains in Agnas; He will attain _moksha_! The activity of butchering is not a hindrance, the 'I am doing it' is the hindrance. Go on 'seeing' only for one life; then You too can attain _moksha_.To 'know' bad conduct is the conduct of the Self. The pride of having good character is more dangerous than having a bad character. One should derive bliss from the Self only. Anything else is only play of the mind ( _masti_ ).Go on 'Seeing' all the activity of file number one from the time of getting up in the morning till going to bed at night. As long as one believes that 'I am the doer of the good or the bad' the liability of the fault applies. The One who is not the doer has no suffering. The person who has no doer-ship is in the state of discharge without charge of karma ( _samvar_ ).What should be done to get rid of 'my-ness ( _mamata_ )'? 'See' it. The crimes of Chandubhai; be they 'criminal' or 'civil', 'see' them. Whether it is an act of crying at a funeral or an act of listening to live music at a wedding ceremony; 'see' them both. Both are things to be known ( _gneya_ ); they are both equal!Karma will exhaust completely by 'Knowing-Seeing'. If there is a problem with any individual, do _pratikraman_.If any interference or its reaction ( _dakhodakhal_ ) happens, 'see' and 'know' even that. What happens if two people are fighting and you are there? 'See' what happens. 'See' whether Chandubhai interferes there or doesn't interfere there; 'see' both these states.If You 'see' the mistake; it will go away. It will will not go away otherwise. This Akram Vignan lets You 'see' the subtlest of faults ( _dosh_ ). It makes one do _pratikraman_ as well. Keep on 'seeing' the film of the mind, the intellect and the inner-instruments ( _antahkaran_ ). What will the Knower-Seer ( _Gnata_ - _Drashta_ ) do if the things to be known ( _gneya_ ) are not there? 'See' the film but don't do attachment-abhorrence.

## [2.3] Cleanse the pudgal

You may paint the house nicely but should you not clean the corners and the small passages in the house? Dadashri has given the pure Self, now cleanse all the impurities in the non-Self complex! Should you not clean the dirt from under the furniture and from the corners and small passages? How can you eat in a dirty dish? Keep on cleansing everything to become a God! In this path, you are not to become a devotee or a service person. All that prevents You from staying in the Self, is considered as impurities. All that makes You miss the applied awareness as the Self ( _shuddha upayoga_ ) is considered as impurities.Make Chandubhai clean the impurities. Tell him, "Cleanse this _antahkaran_. Do _pratikraman_ , do _Charan_ _Vidhi_." Don't allow him to sit idle.If You remain in in _shuddha upayoga_ , the impurities will be cleansed easily. If the impurities are addressed as "not Mine"; they will get cleansed.

## [3] Shuddha upayoga

To focus the awareness in only one place is known as _upayoga_! For example, a thief's focus is in stealing at all times! When you attend a fair at the Mother Goddess's temple, where is the focus? It is in the devotion to the Mother-God, the attention is auspicious activity ( _shubha_ _upayoga_ )!

In worldly interactions, the Self has _upayoga_ (applied awareness). This is of four types: [1] impure ( _ashuddha-upayoga_ ) [2] inauspicious ( _ashubha-upayoga_ ) [3] auspicious ( _shubha-upayoga_ ) [4] pure ( _shuddha-upayoga_ ). The first three types of applied awarness are done with ego (the belief of 'I am Chandubhai and the belief of doership') and the fourth one is free of ego. Once 'I am pure Self' is in the awareness, once the 'right vision ( _samyak_ _darshan_ )' is attained; only then can it be called as pure applied awareness ( _shuddha upayoga_ ). There is not a single thought about anger-pride-deceit-greed or sexuality there. Vows, chanting, penance, devotional activities, scripture-reading- all these are called as auspicious ( _shubha_ ) _upayoga_.Activity ( _kriya_ ) on one side and 'Seeing' on the other side; these two must be done simultaneously. If the Self is present, the activity will take place and will be completed. Each worldly interaction should pass after 'seeing' it; it will then become pure ( _shuddha_ ) and fall away! Worldly interaction done without pure _upayoga_ will return again and again; it will then have to be cleared by staying in pure _upayoga_.

_Upayoga_ is where one's pleasure-seeking is prevailing. While settling the file the _upayoga_ will have to be on the outward side, right? Here, one follows the Agnas, so it is called as pure _upayoga_. When pure Self is seen in others, then there is pure _upayoga_ prevailing.Through what can one stay in pure _upayoga_? It is done through _pragnya_ , the direct light of the Self. _Agnya_ (ignorance, specifically the intellect) shows the 'packing' (external-matter) and _pragnya_ shows the merchandise (Self) in the packing. It is pure _upayoga_ when You 'see' the person who is swearing bad words at you as the Self. Pure _upayoga_ ( _shuddha upayoga_ ) is the function of pure Self and impure or auspicious-inauspicious _upayoga_ ( _ashuddha_ or _shubha_ _ashubha_ _upayoga_ ) is the function of Chandubhai.

What is the difference between _upayoga_ (applied awareness) and awareness ( _jagruti_ )? If you sleep while the lights are on, it is called not making the _upayoga_. It goes to waste. And if you read while the lights are on, it is called as making the _upayoga_. When you put to use the flowing away awareness, it is known as _upayoga_. The electricity is already there, but if you press the switch, the lights will be turned on or the fan will start; this is known as making use of the _upayoga_.

_Shuddha_ pure _upayoga_ means 'Knowing' the Self as pure _shuddha_. When the conviction ( _pratiti_ ), awareness ( _laksha_ ) and experience ( _anubhav_ ) of this prevails and when others are also seen as the same, _shuddha_ ; this is known as the pure _upayoga_ ( _shuddha_ _upayoga_ ).

No matter how bad an act is done, to stay in the state 'I am verily pure ( _shuddha_ )' is known as _shuddha_ _upayoga_. Bad activity is done by Chandubhai, not by the pure Self.

When you complain about someone, pure _upayoga_ will disappear! You saw that person at fault; you did not see him as pure Self. He was seen as a doer, seeing someone as a doer means the _upayoga_ is impure. "I am doing, he is doing, they are doing"- when this inner intent is non-existent at all, pure _upayoga_ is definitely there. When someone raises a red flag (objection) and you feel 'Why is he doing this?' you have become weak. That person doesn't raise the red flag, 'scientific circumstantial evidence' does! The One who prevails in pure _upayoga_ doesn't 'see' anyone as a doer at all. Therefore, he sees the whole world as faultless ( _nirdosh_ ). Really when the fault arises within us (first), we immediately see faults in others.In short, it is pure _upayoga_ to 'see' the Self as pure. To 'see' others as pure and to 'see' others as faultless is also pure _upayoga_. Often times, these two are simultaneously going on in a _mahatma_ ; a fault is seen through the relative view and faultless state is seen from the view of the Self. Even the greatest ascetics and religious precepts don't have this level of attainment. What shows the flawless is the Gnan itself. How does one make the arrangement to remain in the pure _upayoga_? To keep on 'Seeing and Knowing' what Chandulal is doing all day is known as pure _upayoga_. 'See' Chandulal while he is eating, sleeping, working, talking; this is how You make the arrangement for pure _upayoga_. Chandulal is the film (movie) and You the Self are the viewer!The mind, body and speech are in auspicious or inauspicious _upayoga_ and the Self is in pure _upayoga_! If thoughts are 'seen', it is pure _upayoga_ and if one is unable to 'see' the thoughts, he has missed pure _upayoga_ but that will not bind new karma. In our _samayik_ (Being the Self and 'seeing' the self), one is to 'see' only the _antahkaran_ (the inner complex comprised of the mind, intellect, chit and ego) itself. Therefore, one is in pure _upayoga_ during _samayik_. And if someone is seen at fault, do _pratikraman_ and that will be alright too.Pure _upayoga_ should be maintained in the circumstances of insult as well as respect. Who is being honored? The neighbor, the non-Self complex is being honored! Then, there will be pure _upayoga_ there.

To stay in the five Agnas is one form of pure _upayoga_. To 'see' pure Self in everyone and to be aware that 'these are files' is pure _upayoga_. Five Agnas are the protection for staying in pure _upayoga_. Gnan will not progress without keeping pure _upayoga_.

If the boy is spilling milk, 'see' it; try to prevent him from spilling, but don't do _kashaya_ and don't become emotional.

To sit down with Dada and to ask for strength is considered close to pure _upayoga_. It is a means to attain pure _upayoga_.

To separate 'home department' (pure Self) from 'foreign department' (the non-Self, the self) is also known as pure _upayoga_ but it is the pure _upayoga_ in its' earlier stages, it is the tangible ( _sthool_ ) pure _upayoga_. _Mahatmas_ won't be able to know the pure _upayoga_ of the subtle ( _sookshma_ ) type, even if it is explained to them, they won't know; it is enough if they can reach up to the tangible ( _sthool_ ) pure _upayoga_.One can progress from the gross to the subtle pure _upayoga_ by inner study and practice. The awareness will continue to prevail within that 'this that just happened should not have happened', but later, such awareness is not applied ( _upayoga_ ) in further interactions. 'You' are to make use of this awareness. How acutely aware does one become in a place where there is a peril of slipping and falling? If a man is standing at the edge of a deep well will he think about the wife or children? There, he is in _upayoga_.What are the places that make one to miss applying the _upayoga_? When there is any pleasure ( _miithaash_ ) from external sources, pure _upayoga_ may be missed. If the weather is hot and humid and along comes a breeze that cools and comforts you, pure _upayoga_ may be missed. If there is interest ( _ruchi_ ) in eating, pure _upayoga_ will be missed. When one begins to derive pleasure ( _rus_ ) in conversation, _shuddha upayoga_ is missed. Once there is interest ( _ruchi-_ like, subtle desire), pure _upayoga_ will be missed. The _ruchi_ should be for the Self at all times.

Once the deep experience of Gnan has happened, it will be easy to remain in pure _upayoga_. Then the Self-effort ( _purushartha_ ) comes to an end.If the chit remains on Dada's service, or in Dada it is called pure _upayoga_. But all these are called as the gross ( _sthool_ ) type of pure _upayoga_. While counting money, what excellent _upayoga_ remains, right? He will not pay any attention to wife or children if they come before him! How can we know that the _upayoga_ was exact? We simply have to check and 'see' whether the chit was going back and forth or not.

When asked about, His pure _upayoga_ of the most revered Dadashri, describes that, "While reading a story about two women, My vision is on their pure Souls, this awareness is there. Pure _upayoga_ is not missed and if there is a talk about a third person in the story, the pure _upayoga_ that he too is a pure Self is not missed!" When worldly interaction work is not there, pure _upayoga_ can be maintained easily, You can remain separate from the self. However, this is difficult to maintain when the mind and speech are in activity. If the awareness of 'I am pure Self' and He is pure Self is there then in conversation, pure _upayoga_ is maintained. Whereas, if the speech is about worldly life interaction only; the pure _upayoga_ will not be maintained.

When one is not in _upayoga_ (pure _upayoga_ or applied awareness as the Self), then it is _jagruti_ , awakened awareness is there. Other work means _upayoga_ , application. While meditating on the attributes of the Self, pure _upayoga_ will be there; for example, 'I am with infinite knowledge, I am with infinite vision..." and if one talks about other non-Self matters, pure _upayoga_ cannot be maintained, at most, one may remain aware ( _jagrut_ ). No puzzles or _kashaya_ will arise if one remains aware. 'Speech is of the non-Self, and dependent on the non-Self, a taped record is playing'; all this will remain. Dadashri says, "When 'we' speak, that is with pure _upayoga_. 'Our' pure awareness ( _upayoga_ ) is on, 'this record is speaking. In this record what was _syaadvad_ (accepted by all) and what was not, what mistake happened, all that is 'seen' in precision. 'I spoke', if this happens, pure _upayoga_ is missed! When someone is doing service (Dadashri's), 'I' stay in pure Self at that time. I don't miss the pure _upayoga_ even for one minute." When ego ( _ahamkar_ ) is completely gone, one is said to have known the Self completely.Initial attainment of Gnan in Akram Vignan, is there with Vision as the Self ( _Atma_ _darshan_ ). Thereafter, as one sits in the Gnani's presence repeatedly, the _upayoga_ becomes pure _upayoga_ ( _shuddha-upayoga_ ). As pure _upayoga_ arises, the Gnan comes into experience in proportion to the pure _upayoga_. When the pure _upayoga_ prevails continuously, it is known as absolute Knowledge ( _keval Gnan_ )!The filled stock of previous karma makes _mahatmas_ miss pure _upayoga_. Greed for money keeps One away from pure _upayoga_. 'You' should make arrangements to stay in pure _upayoga_ all the time. While outside on the road or in the bus or train; 'see' the pure Self in any living being that you meet.The absolutely revered Dadshri says, "All my tubers (of _kashaya_ ) have been dissolved, therefore, nothing trap My attention. Therefore, I am always free." As soon as the mind is free, Dadahsri starts doing _vidhis_. As soon as there is the slightest pause, he arranges to do _vidhis_. Even if there is a pause of one second, he starts doing _vidhis_! He doesn't doze-off, He is ever alert! During free time, if _mahatmas_ do _vidhi_ , recite _Charan Vidhi_ , recite nine _Kalams_ etc., - it is a means to remain in awareness of the Self. This is not known as pure _upayoga_. _Vidhis_ are not on the side of the Self and they are not on the side of the non-Self complex either, they are neutral. They neutralize the worldly-life! _Siddha Stuti_ (affirming the ultimate liberating sentences of the Self) is on the side of Self. If an ignorant person (one who does not have Self-realization) recites these nine _Kalams_ , _Namaskar Vidhi_ etc., - his ego will begin to purify and there will be less _kashays_ (anger, pride, deceit, greed).

Will a mother leave her small child unattended even for one minute? In the same way, the Self should not be left unattended even for one moment. This means 'You' are to 'see' what the self is doing! Getting engrossed in non-Self is the same as leaving the Self unattended. There is no objection to eating ice-cream but if one asks for two or three more servings, it is wrong. The prior practices of ignorance become obstructions here. Because of them, One leaves the Self unattended. If it is not left unattended once, then the energy of the Self will increase in multiple proportions! When Niruben gives a bath to Dadashri, Dadashri Himself remains in pure _upayoga_ and Niruben's natural _upayoga_ prevails nicely and effortlessly. To serve the living Gnani Purush is called as pure _upayoga_ and to give bath to an idol, to do 'service of an idol', is known as auspicious _upayoga_ ( _shubha-upayoga_ ). To write Dada's speech is a way that brings one to pure _upayoga_ and it is the beginning of pure _upayoga_! Dadashri says that one is not to wait for the bus. While waiting, arrange the pure _upayoga_ and 'see' pure Self in everyone; thus, time is not wasted. Not a single minute should be wasted while waiting for the bus.To sleep means to put the Self in a sack and tie it up. How can 'You' afford to sleep after Gnan? What is the result of pure _upayoga_? Freedom from troubles of the mind, speech and body ( _samadhi_ )!

While eating, _mahatmas_ can remain in awareness of the Self ( _laksha_ ), but not in pure _upayoga_. Pure _upayoga_ is very high level thing. Dadashri stays in that state. What is pure _upayoga_ while eating? It is to 'see': Who is eating? How is he eating? Which food item has more taste? If one talks while eating, he will be engrossed in talking. Then, let alone pure _upayoga_ , he won't be able to stay even in awareness. For that reason, Dada never talked while eating. Awareness ( _jagruti_ ) remains in _mahatmas_. Only a few can retain eternally ( _dharan_ ) what Dada had spoken. The assimilation of the awakened awareness at the original place, the absolute Self, is a difficult thing. Therefore, awareness ( _laksha_ ) remains but not pure _upayoga_ for _mahatmas._ How can pure _upayoga_ be there unless the (distinct) experience ( _anubhav, Gnan_ ) of the Self has happened? The exactness that 'I am this' should not alter at all in its' infinite regions ( _pradesho_ – spaces)!

Revered Dadashri says, "You worshipped Dada's speech and therefore, You attained this light. If you work with a machine, you will not be able to remain aware of the Self. On the contrary, a veil will come over Your awareness. That is so because whom do you worship? The machines! One becomes that which one worships". Therefore, Dada used to say that 'From a very young age, I would not repair even a punctured bicycle tire myself'.Dadashri states, "Who can stay with me for service?" Only the One who is in constant pure _upayoga_ can. How can the one who is not in pure _upayoga_ stay with Him? In Dadashri's presence, one feels "coolness" (calmness in the self) and so pure _upayoga_ will go away. _Upayoga_ on pure _upayoga_ ( _upayoga_ _oopar_ _upayoga_ ) is known as the absolute state! _Upayoga_ (applied awareness) is the direction in which the awareness is used. After attaining the Vision as the Self ( _Atma drashti_ ) pure _upayoga_ is possible, otherwise, it is the upayoga of the ego.

## [4] Anubhav Laksha Pratiti

After attaining the Self, the One who remains in increasing contact with the Gnani will have constant awareness ( _laksha_ ) of the Self. Sometimes, when one gets busy with work and gets engrossed in it, it may feel that the Gnan is not present at that time; but that is not so. At that time, the awareness ( _laksha_ ) of the Self gets displaced but the conviction ( _pratiti_ ) of the Self is constantly and continuously present. Therefore, the awareness ( _laksha_ ), 'I am pure Self,' returns instantly and automatically. This is known as _kshayak_ _samkit_ and if the awareness ( _laksha_ ) of the Self does not return, it is known as _upsham_ _samkit._ Thus after attaining the Self in the stepless Akram Vignan, these three bases of; experience, awareness and conviction ( _anubhav_ , _laksha_ and _pratiti_ ) are constant and One will never fall below this base; that is known as _kshayak_ _samkit_.Once the uninterrupted conviction ( _pratiti_ ) of 'I am pure Soul' is established, the 'visa for _moksha_ ' is obtained and thereafter One gets the ticket to reach the state of the absolute Self. This _pratiti_ is considered as one eighth of the state in which the absolutely liberated Self ( _Siddhas_ ) are in!As the experience of Gnan increases, the conviction ( _pratiti_ ) gets stronger and stronger. And then it never wavers; thus One gets the work done ! When there is pressure, it may bend but it will not break; this is called as the unshakable foundation of the Self .What is the difference between faith ( _shraddha_ ) and conviction ( _pratiti_ )? Faith may lapse but conviction will never lapse. Once the conviction of the Self happens, it never lapses. This is known as _kshayak_ _samkit_. The visa for _moksha_ is stamped-confirmed! The conviction gets deep and then deeper and deeper. The Tirthankara Lords have the deepest conviction ( _avaghaadh_ _pratiti_ ) of the Self!The conviction of the Self does not become established without an actual Gnan Vidhi (the one hour process of attaining Self-realization in Akram Vignan); it can not happen by reading books or scriptures.After the conviction ( _pratiti_ ) of the Self has been established; forgiveness ( _kshama_ ), humility ( _namrata_ ), straight forwardness ( _saradata_ ), satisfaction ( _santosh_ ) and other qualities arise naturally.The word _pratiti_ (ultimate conviction) is applicable to only the Self.Any task that you do, requires engrossment; then the task will be done. 'You' should 'see' and 'know' the one who gets engrossed. ' _Vartey nija swabhavnu, anubhav,laksha, pratita Vrutti vahey nija bhaav ma, pramaarthey samkit'_

The prevalence of the three foundations; of experience, awareness, conviction; Tendencies flow to the Self, this is the state of the attained Self."

Shrimad Rajchandra.

In ignorant state, the tendencies were flowing outward. These tendencies wi instantly and spontaneously return to the Self after the experience-awareness conviction of the Self happens. This is known as _paramartha samkit_ the final, _kshayak_ _samkit_. And this state prevails in the _mahatmas_. Oh, even if one remembers Dadashri's face, the tendencies are said to have returned. Why are tendencies wandering around outwardly? To find pleasure, that is why.In the beginning, Gnan prevails in the conviction and then, and as it increases in experience ( _anubhav_ ), it comes in the conduct ( _vartan_ ) on its own.

After attaining the Self in the Gnan Vidhi of the Akram path certain karma are reduced to ashes. As a result, the experience and awareness of the Self remain. If there is a higher level of readiness and spiritual development prior to the Gnan Vidhi, there will be continuous awareness ( _laksha_ ). 'I am pure Self' remains in the constant awarness ( _khyaal_ ) in the Akram path, and in the step by step path ( _kramic_ _path_ ), it is not continuous. What is the difference between these two? _Laksha_ means it has been anchored somewhere whereas _khyaal_ means it is unanchored free and everwhere. In the _karmic_ path it is _kshayopasham_ _samkit_ ( the partial attainment of the Self with suppression of _kashaya_ ) and in Akram, it is _kshayak_ _samkit_ (Self-realization with absence of _kashaya_ ). Therefore the Self is continuously in the constant awareness ( _khyaal_ ). Thus, many _mahatmas_ have 'I am pure Self' in _khyaal_ , even while they are talking. This is known as meditation as the Self ( _shukladhyan_ ). 'I am pure Self' presents effortlessly as soon as One wakes up from sleep. This is the result of the establishment uninterrupted conviction ( _pratiti_ ).'I am pure Self' is not for repeated chanting. Chanting is known as word-form. For the Self-realized person ( _samkit_ ), 'I am pure Self' is naturally present in awareness ( _laksha_ ). What is memorized may be forgotten. _Mahatmas_ of Akram Vignan are not to chant on the pure Self. Here, One becomes the absoulte Self ( _Paramatma_ ), it is through conviction ( _pratiti_ )! Chanting is for _mantras._ And this is the state of the Self and not a _mantra_. Only when sleep comes, One is to softly speak 'I am pure Self.' Then, there is no need to speak anything else. When the awareness ( _laksha_ ) of and as the Self is present naturally; that is the right way. If one attempts to chant it, then it stops the natural way. Awareness ( _laksha_ ) of worldly knowledge can set, but the awareness of the Self is such that it can never set in ( _alakha_ _niranjan_ )! Gnani Purush establishes this awareness ( _laksha_ ) for you. If the leg is fractured only once, it is in your awareness ( _laksha_ ) and how! You will remember the cane before getting up, right! While playing the role of King Bhratruhari, the actor Laxmichand has the constant awareness ( _khyaal_ )- I am not really a king but I am Laxmichand. Similarly, _mahatmas_ have this in awareness ( _laksha, khyaal_ ) that 'I am pure Self'.In the Akram path, the complete experience ( _anubhav_ ) and complete Gnan does not prevail continuously but the conviction ( _pratiti_ ) does prevail continuously. The state of _antar Atma_ (the awakened Self) has been attained and the files remain to be settled. Once the files are settled, there is the state of the absolute Self ( _Paramatma_ ).What are the different characteristics of the experience of the Self? When none of the worldly matters has an effect on You, it is the final level, the completion. Until then, there may be wavering. The Self is the thermometer for this. When there is no attachment-abhorrence while getting beaten up or getting robbed; that is the thermometer. Once in a while, for someone of a softer disposition, his body may cry and if he has a tougher disposition, he may laugh; but that is not to be considered; what is to be considered is whether the attachment-abhorrence are gone or not! In later stages, when Gnan is firmly established, there is no effect even on the face! As long as there is displeasure on the face, know that there is weakness.

When does the experience of Gnan, the Self manifest? When the result of other previous bitter-sweet karma come before You and absolute equanimity ( _samata_ ) prevails at that time; the state of _vitaragata_ (without _raag_ or _dwesh_ ) prevails at that time; then, the experience manifests. Then, when it comes in conduct ( _vartan_ ) One has attained the state of pure Self completely.

After the experience of the Self, the 'Cautioner' ( _chetavanaro_ ) awakens within. It shows you your mistakes at every moment; it makes you do _pratikraman_. Before Self-realization, there is no one to caution you from within. Instead, you see mistakes of others all day long.

This is the Vignan (science) of the eternal Self ( _chaitanya_ ); it cautions you within, ceaselessly. The tendencies that were going in the wrong direction are cautioned by _pragnya shakti_ the liberating energy of the Self, which arises in the Gnan Vidhi. And there is the response from the other side (the self) as well; the one who is cautioned does pay heed. Once the responder is there, he has become the one who has been cautioned; the Cautioner – _pragnya shakti_ tells him that giving pain to anyone is wrong. And this is accepted by all components of the inner instrument namely the intellect-mind-chit and ego- that this is correct and the changes do happen in him inwardly and accordingly and that is the response. Here, the original Self has to do nothing. All this is done by _pragnya,_ which is the direct energy of the original Self. Once the work of attaining the absolute Self is completed, _pragnya_ gets absorbed in the absolute Self.Who is the one that gets cautioned? It is the tendencies ( _vruttio_ ) that have been going away from the Self. These tendencies are not _pudgal_ (non-Self complex); they are in the form of beliefs and the non-Self complex arises from these beliefs.When One is the continuous and complete 'Knower-Seer' ( _Gnata-Drashta_ ), the 'Cautioner' is not necessary at all!Nothing new is to be done now. The conviction ( _pratiti_ ) of the Self that has been established needs to be completed to the full state of experience of the Self ( _anubhav_ ). The intellect should not be allowed to enter in the middle. Only the One who has attained the conviction ( _pratiti_ ) of the Self has 'seen' ( _joyo_ ) the Self. And having the awareness ( _laksha_ ) of the Self is defined as 'known' ( _janyo_ ) the Self. The Self can not be seen with the physical eyes. When the circumstance of an insult ( _upmaan_ ) arises, and there is not the slightest effect ( _asar_ ); then the Vision as the Self ( _darshan_ ) has rised to the level of the experience (Gnan, _anubhav_ ) as the Self. And if there is any effect, if the face shows the effect, there is that much weakness. To get to the state of the experience, the supportive knowledge is still needed. The art of knowledge ( _gnan kada_ ) and the art of using relative instructions ( _bodha kada_ ) is the supportive knowledge here! 'The fault is of the sufferer', 'whatever has happened is justice', 'adjust everywhere' and 'avoid clash' etc. etc. is considered the supportive knowledge. On different occasions one will require different supportive knowledge and the experience will grow accordingly. Who is the one that experiences the Self? The subtlest ego ( _sookshmattam_ _ahamkar_ ) is the one. It gets dissolved and then the direct energy of the Self ( _pragnya_ ) is 'installed' on the throne. The One who 'sees' as the Self and the One who experiences the Self are both One and the same! That which is theoretical can not be called as experience; it can be called as understanding or vision ( _samaj_ ). And and that which comes in practice is called as experience ( _anubhav_ ).

Complete Vision ( _darshan_ ) and complete experience as the Self is called _jyoti_ ( the eternal light of the Self). That verily is Gnan. That verily is the absolute Self, _Paramatma!_

Staying in the _saaniddhya_ (vicinity and presence) of the GnaniGnani's increases the faith in Him. If this is not possible, reading His books, doing _niddidhyasan_ (visualization of his face) is also very helpful.

## [5] Charitra Moha

What is known as _darshan_ _moha_? You are not really Chandubhai, You really are the Self and yet, you have this illusory belief that 'I am Chandubhai'; this is known as _darshan_ _moha_. You believe the non-Self complex as 'I am this'; when You believe the Self as 'I am', then _darshan_ - _moha_ is broken off. After freedom from _darshan_ _moha_ , _charitramoha_ is what is left behind. Whatever karma were bound by _darshan_ _moha_ , have now remained pending and this result of those karma is known is _charitra_ _moha_. Even after the _darshan_ _moha_ is gone, _charitra_ _moha_ remains pending. When does _khshayak_ _samkit_ happen? It happens when _darshan_ _moha_ is gone. What happens when this happens? The scriptures have said that it happens when four types of infinite lives binding causal karma ( _anantanubandhi_ ) _kashays_ and three types of karma of illusion namely, illusory ( _mithya_ ), mixed ( _mishra_ ) and 'right vision illusion' ( _samyaktva_ ) are gone; thus, these seven _prakrutis_ (non-Self complex karma) are completely exhausted. In Akram-path, _mahatmas_ are endowed with _khshayak samkit_ ; those in _kramic_ path do not accept this. While going to Delhi from Ahmedabad, one realizes that his train is headed for Madras. After realization, he turns back. The awakening the knowledge that one is on the wrong track, means _darshan_ _moha_ is gone. The turning is the _charitra_ _moha_ and reaching Delhi is _keval Gnan,_ absolute Knowledge, _moksha_.

The One who knows the matter, attributes and phases ( _dravya_ , _guna_ and _paryaya_ ) of the Self attains a total and complete end to all _moha_ illusion from the experience as the Self ( _nischaya_ ). And yet _moha_ that is there in the worldly interactions is known as _charitra_ - _moha_.

One already has a coconut but only if the outer covering is removed, its' kernel can be useful. What is the use of a coconut if the outer covering is still there? Similarly, if the outer covering of _darshan_ _moha_ is removed, one can attain the fruit. Due to _darshan_ _moha_ , new karma are constantly charged and _charitra_ _moha_ is the discharge result. The _moha_ illusion that remains after _darshan_ _moha_ is gone is known as _charitra_ _moha_. If one is entrapped in _darshan_ _moha_ , he is considered entrapped; whereas, the person with _charitra_ _moha_ is not considered as entrapped. To end _darshan_ _moha_ is considered as the greatest accomplishment ( _siddhi_ ) on the path of _moksha_! After Gnan, _mahatmas_ have pending _charitra_ _moha_. In _charitra_ _moha_ , _mahatmas_ do not become deluded when they see anything in the world. This is so because the _darshan_ _moha_ is gone! Now, how are _mahatmas_ doing while they are in _charitra_ _moha_? Everything they do is against their real desire. They have no desire and yet there is the discharging illusion. Just as ice will melt even if it does not wish to! Anger-pride-deceit-greed will happen even if the _mahatmas_ do not want them to happen and this _charitra_ - _moha_ is not charging, it is discharging. It is to be settled with equanimity. In Akram path, all this happens within just two hours; this is something that doesn't otherwise happen for millions of life times!How is it for the One with _charitra_ _moha_? If someone takes away his clothes, he has no objection whatsoever from within.Anger-pride-deceit-greed will happen within the _mahatmas_ but they are the results, and not the causes. Yet, the people from outside will not understand this; they will think, 'What kind of knowledge is this? The _moha_ of _mahatmas_ is visible openly, no?' Yet, this is the _charitra_ _moha_ ; it is the illusion in conduct. The subatomic particles _parmanus_ of _moha_ that were there are getting discharged. The _mahatmas_ are clearing these _parmanus_ by purifying them with Gnan. Therefore, the _moha_ becomes progressively non-existent ( _kshina_ _moha_ ). Mahatma's train leaves the station of 'victory over illusion' ( _jeeta moha_ ) and reaches the station of ' no moha' ( _kshina-moha_ ). And at this time, a _mahatma_ would have attained the status of a God! Even at the twelfth spiritual level, _charitra_ _moha_ will be there. _Charitra_ _moha_ ends only when absolute Knowledge _keval Gnan_ happens. Now, this illusion in discharging conduct is to be settled with equanimity ( _sambhavey_ _nikaal_ ). _Mahatmas_ have the experience that after Gnan, the _moha_ is less and less and they are able to remain more and more as the Self. For _mahatmas_ , what is known as _charitra_ _moha_?

When the _mahatmas_ eat-drink, bathe, fight, rush, hurry, get lazy, wear nice clothes, style their hair, keep French-cut moustache, be greedy, be frugal, 'see' movies, get married; all this is _charitra_ - _moha_.

What is the _charitra_ - _moha_ of Dadashri like? When he goes to brush his teeth and someone says, 'There is no toothpaste'; Dada would say, 'it will do'. 'There is no tongue-scraper', even then, he would say, 'it will do'. 'the water for shower is cold', he'd say, 'it will do'. 'No rice in the meal', even then, 'it will do'. 'No bread', 'it will do'. If someone takes away the bread from his plate, Dada would say, 'it will do'. If someone takes away the whole plate of tasty meal, Dada would say, 'it will do'! He is totally free of insistence ( _niraghara_ ).

_Charitra_ - _moha_ can not be stopped but Your awareness on it must be maintained. This awareness should be such that while flying a kite, ' this is wrong and useless' should constantly be there within. It should not be done with with pleasure (do not become the enjoyer)! You should be alert about 'knowing' this.

There may exist an exceptional form of _charitra_ _moha_ by which, even Gnan may vanish away. And it is usually of the sexual type and not of any other type.In some _mahatma_ of Akram Vignan, harshness instead of softness ( _mruduta_ _rujuta_ ) in speech is evident. Yet, Dadashri says that there is _mruduta rujuta_ within even though the spoken speech is harsh and rough on the outside. Now, is it not a misuse of Gnan to assert 'all this is discharging illusion' by any _mahatma_? Even such an assertion is _charitra_ _moha_. The One who wants to be in Gnan never misuses it.

"It happens"- is _charitra_ _moha_. Here, 'One' does not interfere with, 'do this and not to do that'- is not there.All these questions that are being asked, is also _charitra_ _moha_. They will not be asked by one who has no illusion ( _nirmohi_ ), no?

To go on pilgrimage, to do religious activities, to worship the idols, to read the scriptures, to do _samayik_ - _pratikraman_ (introspection-repentance); all of this is _charitra_ _moha_.Giving donation is also _charitra_ _moha_ and to become irritated is also _charitra_ _moha_. This is so because the Self isn't the doer of anything! One can purify _charitra_ _moha_ by being in penance ( _tapa_ ) through Gnan.Dadashri says, "I too, wear a jacket and a hat, I also wear a ring and I style my hair when I comb them. I also shave the face; is this all not _moha_?" Yes, it truly is _moha_ ; but it is _charitra_ _moha_. 'Oh! Even this _satsang_ that I am 'doing' and the Gnan Vidhi that I am 'giving' is also _moha_!" But, it is _charitra_ _moha_. As long as there is _charitra_ _moha_ , one can't attain absolute Knowledge _keval Gnan_ or ultimate liberation _moksha._ Now, Dadashri also has _charitra_ _moha_ and _mahatmas_ also have _charitra_ _moha_ ; what is the difference between these two? _Mahatmas_ ' _charitra_ _moha_ is with a load, the load of running the worldly life and Dadashri's _charitra_ _moha_ is without any load; no load of the worldly life at all! As light as a flower! Dadashri even goes as far as saying that the compassion ( _karuna bhaav_ ) in him is also _charitra_ _moha_. The compassion of the Tirthankara ( _karuna_ ) is also _charitra_ _moha_ , but it is there before the attainment of absolute Knowledge _keval Gnan_ and not thereafter! _Mahatmas_ have questioned whether the following of Dada's _Agnas_ is also _charitra_ _moha_? No. It is the _purushartha_ (Self-effort) of the direct energy of Self! It is not _charitra_ _moha_. _Charitra_ _moha_ will not allow one to follow the _Agnas_. The one who is straightforward ( _sarad_ ) can follow Agnas easily . All the four _ghati_ _karma_ (i.e. _gnan avarniya_ -Knowledge-obscuring, _darshan avarniya_ vision-obscuring, _mohaniya_ -karma of illusion and _antarai_ -obstructing karma) vanish away by following the Agnas.

After Self-realization in Akram, _darshan_ _moha_ is gone and by following the the five Agnas, _charitra_ _moha_ leaves. _Charitra_ _moha_ was created because of tying a bandage over the eyes (illusion; ignorance) and You have to exhaust it by 'seeing' it with open eyes (with the awakened Vision)! _Charitra_ _moha_ is not Yours if You are its 'Knower-Seer' and if you grab it, it will remain attached to you! 'Why is this happening to me?'- If you say this, it will be yours. The Knower-Seer' has no interference; in _charitra_ _moha_ , there is interference. 'I will not come there' is interference! The way in which _charitra_ _moha_ was generated, is the way in which it will come out. _Charitra_ _moha_ that passes without 'seeing' will pass without getting cleansed. It will have to be cleansed by 'seeing' again. Just as when one washes his clothes while taking a bath, after bathing and dressing, he will wash the last remaining piece of cloth carefully, without splashing water over his clothes; this last _moha_ ; _charitra_ _moha_ is to be cleansed off!

For Akram _mahatmas_ , the term _udayakarma_ (unfolding karma) is not to be used, instead the term _charitra_ _moha_ is correct. For _mahatmas_ , the unfolding karma is associated with the _moha_ that is to being settled ( _nikali_ ); hence, it is known as _charitra_ _moha_ and in the ignorant stage, the unfolding karma is associated with the original illusion ( _darshan moha,_ ' I am Chandulal'); hence, the term _udayakarma_ is correct.

No matter what kind of _charitra_ _moha_ arises, effecting as slanderous or adorable; 'I am not the doer of anything at all'- when this constant awareness ( _khyal_ ) is present, it is known as absolute Vision ( _keval_ _darshan_ ). When such awareness prevails continuously, One doesn't have to do _pratikraman_ (repentance and asking for forgiveness) or _pratyakhan_ (avowal to never repeat the mistake) at all.

_Mahatmas_ are to settle off the collected matter ( _bharelo_ _maal_ ), be it attachment related or abhorrence related. Comfort-discomfort, both should be settled off. One became attached to it because of the non-Self intent ( _visham bhav,_ 'I am Chandulal') and becomes free from it with equanimity ( _sambhav_ ). There should be no aversion for _charitra_ _moha_ now.

Only when _mahatmas_ become engrossed (in _charitra moha_ ), it is known as _charitra_ _moha_. If One is not engrossed, He does not have _charitra_ _moha_.

If 'You' go on 'seeing' 'Chandubhai' (the self) as separate, 'You' are free. _Charitra_ _moha_ is not there. If 'Chandubhai' is not 'seen' as separate, _charitra_ _moha_ remains pending there. Sooner or later 'Chandubhai' will have to be let go. You will have to 'see' exactly. To 'see' 'Chandu' exactly is to 'see' the body as separate, to 'see' 'Chandu' separate as he talks or does other things. Keep on 'seeing' as he raises or lowers his hand. This will gradually turn into experience. At first, there is the conviction, then there is some experience, then it comes in conduct gradually. A boy is told that a girl has been chosen for him to get married and her name is Chandni and that she is very beautiful. Now, the boy has not seen the girl and yet, he feels attraction and love as soon as he hears her name; just upon hearing her name; he hasn't even seen her yet. Similarly, just by listening to the words of a Gnani, the knowledge keeps arising!

This Akram Vignan is complete. It is _siddhantik,_ it will accomplish the ultimate goal, because it has no controversy. It is self-propelling ( _kriya_ _kari_ ).

## [6.1] Karma: New and Old

_Mahatmas_ now have the awareness of the Self, they have become _Purush_ (the Self) and the religion of _purushartha_ (Self-effort) has been commenced. The doer-ship has ended and the 'Knower-Seer' has been awakened. Now, the bondage of karma has ceased. However, _mahatmas_ have this question that the good or bad karma that were bound before attaining Self-realization; how can they get absolved? Giving the solution for this, Dadashri says that at the time of the Gnan Vidhi, the sins get burned-off in the fire of Knowledge, by the grace of the God sitting within us. And that's why the presence of the Self is there day and night. Worries and tension are gone forever!

Karma are explained by way of a simile explaining the three different kinds. In the form of ice, in the form of water and in the form of vapor! After Gnan, the karma in the form of water and vapor are dissipated but those that have been frozen in the form of ice have to be settled through suffering for sure. They are known as _nikachit_ _karma_. But the way in which they are settled changes entirely! After Self-realization, these karma are settled while One remains in the bliss of the Self!

Who is the one that suffers these karma? Is it the Self? The Self is verily the absolute Self ( _Paramatma_ ), eternally in a blissful state, how does the Self ever suffer anything? It is the ego that suffers the pain or the pleasure. The Self is merely present there.

Some _mahatmas_ wonder how they will be able to go though these 'ice-like' karma. Hey, do you have to do anything to melt ice? It will melt on its own! 'You' just 'see' it being in the state of Self! If it feels very heavy, you do _pratikraman_ -repentance and you will feel lighter and those karma will come to an end!

## [6.2] To improve the conduct

The result of Gnan, in _mahatmas_ of Akram Vignan happens differently depending on the account of veil ( _avaran_ ) and the illusory attachment ( _moha_ ). This happens in two hours for some and some may take two years but it shall give result. How much should experience as the Self (Gnan) manifest in one's worldly interactions? It takes a while before it is evident in one's worldly interactions. Dadashri had completed all his worldly interactions, and for us, they are still pending.

One person asked Dadashri, 'You are a Gnani and this _mahatma_ is also a Gnani? What is the difference between two of you?' Then, Dadashri answered, "There is no difference in Gnan, the difference is in the worldly interaction ( _vyavahar_ )!" One cannot change the conduct, the thoughts or the speech now. The Vision (understanding) that has been attained is to be understood repeatedly and deeply. This will lead to Gnan, or experience. The Gnan then will manifest in the conduct through mind, speech and body on its own. That is why Dadashri never scolded anyone. In the Akram path, one is not to look at the conduct at all. There happens a mighty powerful change within during the Gnan Vidhi! For _moksha_ , conduct has no value. Whatever one's conduct may be, it will have to be settled with equanimity and only then, _moksha_ happens. Good conduct is required if worldly pleasures are desired. Oftentimes, this incontrovertible principle of _siddhant_ of Akram path is taken for self protection and thus misused. There, Dadashri shows the red light with equal force that one should not attempt to protect one's negative conduct here. When you do not want to fall off in a well, there is a strong resolve for this within you, is there not? And yet if you fall in, would you defend the action? Defending the act of falling in the well will make you fall again and again. Faulty conduct is not objectionable, such defense is wrong; the _mahatmas_ cannot hang on to it. _Mahatmas_ should keep in mind that 'this must not happen'. Then if it happens, he is not at fault. Then one the one who misuses it, is the sufferer. What is 'scientific circumstantial evidence' ( _vyavasthit_ )? One has to drive the car cautiously and with open eyes. Then, if a collision happens, it is 'scientific circumstantial evidence'; One can not say it is _vyavasthit_ and then drive the car carelessly! Thus, one should not say that the faulty conduct is not a problem. That would be irresponsible. Here, new liability arise. One is to keep exact balance between these two.

It is a risk to use any statement of the Gnani without support and out of context. "Nothing can touch me now"- to say this or to believe this is very risky. Therefore, Dadashri has given the aphorism, "Sexuality is not poison, being fearlessness in sexuality is poison; hence, have a fear of sexuality!' One is to be afraid of it till _moksha_ is attained, don't be in the 'out of control' state. Here, to be afraid means to remain vigilant.

## [6.3] What comes first, faith or conduct?

In the ignorant state, one finds and sees fault in conduct. Now, in the awakened state of the Self, 'You' should not see any fault in conduct. 'You' should go on 'seeing' conduct as it is. If 'You' find fault in conduct, _charitra moha_ will not leave and if you do not find fault in conduct and the conduct is 'seen', _charitra moha_ will go away! Conduct is only to be 'seen'. For example, it is in one's belief that sexuality is a fault and one comes to experience this and yet, this may not be found in his conduct. At first, the belief changes, a long time will pass thereafter for the knowledge to change and a long time after that, there will be change in the conduct. Until such time that it comes in one's conduct; the intellect will continue to operate even though it is in one's belief and one will know that the intellect is interfering here.

Does new karma charge until what exists as a belief comes in conduct? When this question arises, Dadashri gives the solution that there is no new charging of karma; but the discharge will not be finished. Time will be wasted. Yes, it, the discharging karma, will become weak and ineffective by doing _pratikraman_. It has to come into One's experience (Gnan). When does it come into experience? It is when no pleasure is felt in a single atom or subatomic particle of the world. But here, one gets pleasure from sleep, pleasure from food, pleasure from sexuality; and as long as this happens, the experience ( _anubhav,_ Gnan) of the Self will not happen. Where _kashays_ are gone, One is considered to have attained a vey high level of Vision.

As the inner experience of _mahatmas_ unfolds, its fragrance is felt outwardly but this will happen slowly and gradually. One person had complained to Dada that no discipline is evident in the conduct of _mahatmas_. And that _mahatmas_ look bad to the outsiders. New people do not get impressed and are put off and stop coming. Dadashri says that if they get impressed by seeing _mahatmas_ ' discipline, it will be meaningless. This discipline may touch their intellect but not their hearts. Thus, there may not be discipline here but there is love here; there is freedom from attachment-abhorrence here! Five thousand people may be dining here but there will be no conflict here! Here, there is no discipline that is artificial. Moreover, if one wants to have discipline in conduct, one will have to create a 'doer', the Self will have to become the self. This is not possible. Here, in Akram Vignan, the law is that 'there is no law'! Everyone enjoys free and blissful state. New people will be attracted because of the intent of the salvation of the world and not from the activity of salvation! Here, there is pure worldly interaction ( _shuddha_ _vyavahar_ ) and not auspicious interaction ( _shubha_ _vyavahar_ ). The worldly interactions here are those that raise and nurture the Self. They should have the ability to see this. By only 'seeing' continuously within, everything becomes pure, by itself, for sure. Once 'this is wrong' enters, all of it gets cleansed on its own and if 'there is nothing wrong with it' enters, then the fault will not clear up even after five hundred thousand years!

## [7] Real Purushartha

Two types of _purushartha_ are there; one is of the illusory type ( _bhrant_ _purushartha_ – intent of the self) and the other one is defined as the progress in the realm of the Self, after the Self is attained. What is the difference between these two? In real _purushartha_ , there is nothing that is to be done; 'You' are only 'to 'see'' and 'know' while Being the Self. And in the relative _purushartha_ one just forms the intents that 'I will do this' or 'I will not do this!' This is defined as the illusory _purushartha_ of intent ( _bhav purushartha_ ). In this too, there is no activity ( _kriya_ ) at all. _Purushartha_ (progress as the Self) is an inner thing. In the illusory state, _purushartha_ happens verily through the intent of doer-ship ( _karta_ _bhaav_ ). In the awakened state of the Self, _purushartha_ is being the 'Knower-Seer' ( _Gnata_ - _Drashta_ ) only. If One stays as the 'Knower-Seer' st or in the five Agnas of Dadashri, after attaining the Self, it is called as the true _purushartha_. Nothing else is to be done there at all. All the Agnas are for the Self ( _Purush_ ) and not for the non-Self ( _prakruti_ ).

To remain in Agnas is called as the _purushartha_ and the further _purushartha_ would be when one can naturally remain as the Self without the necessity to apply the Agnas. This result is attained only after following the Agnas. Hence, there is the _purushartha_ of following the Agnas in the beginning and then there is the progression to the state of natural and spontaneously prevailing _purushartha_ ( _swabhavik_ _purushartha_ ) in the end!

What separates the Knowledge ( _Gnan_ ) from ignorance ( _agnan_ ) is known as the real _purushartha_. This is also known as the Vignan of separation ( _bheda vignan_ ). And it is the direct light of Self ( _pragnya_ ) that makes one do this _purushartha_. The resolve to remain in the Agnas is also the _purushartha_ ; it is _pragnya_ that makes 'does' this. Further progress starts according to the resolve ( _nischaya_ ) that one has made. Thereafter, one will gradually progress from the _purushartha_ state to an extraordinary _purushartha_ ( _parakram_ ). What is _parakram_? Just like when a dog is soiled all over the body with mud but when it shakes vigorously back and forth, the mud will fall off and it will be cleaned up instantly! As if it has just taken a bath! Who was the professor that taught the dog how to do this? When 'You' 'see' the faults of the self, in an impartial way, it is known as the _purushartha._ Where is Dada's grace showered? Where One has started _purushartha_ with a true heart; that is where!

In the final days, Dadashri had given a powerful message as a signal to the _mahatmas_ that – until now I took care of you _mahatmas_ a mother cat would take care of her kittens. From now on, you _mahatmas_ must cling on to Me like baby monkeys to their mothers!

## [8] Shukladhyan

After attaining the Akram Gnan, which type of meditation ( _dhyan_ ) prevails within? 'I am Chandubhai' or 'I am pure Self'? Almost everyone has 'I am pure Self' all the time. It won't be forgotten even if one attempts to! This is known as _Shukladhyan_ (meditation as the Self). _Shukladhyan_ is the direct cause for _moksha_ and auspicious meditation ( _dharmadhyan_ ) is the indirect cause for _moksha_. As such, one is not to 'do' the meditation of the Self. The connection between the meditator ( _dhyata_ ) and his final goal ( _dhyeya_ ) is done through the process of meditation ( _dhyan_ ). In order to attain the Self in the _kramic_ path (step-by-step-path), the seeker has to decide the goal that I want to attain the Self. He is Chandubhai and Chandubhai is the meditator ( _dhyata_ ) and the Self is the goal ( _dhyeya_ ). When these two are connected, it is known as the meditation ( _dhyan_ ) and with this meditation, he will attain the Self! And here in the Akram path, he has become the Self already! Where is the need for meditation then? In the _karmic_ path, it is believed that the meditation of the Self cannot happen at all in this era of the time cycle. This has indeed become possible in Akram path!

If 'You' want to maintain the awareness ( _khyal_ ) of the Self, go on 'seeing' 'Chandubhai'. 'See' the mind of Chandubhai, 'see' the speech of Chandubhai. That 'Seer' is the Self. To 'see' this is same as meditation of the Self ( _Atma dhyan_ ). Once it is decided that you will be going to Mumbai, it will be in your meditation ( _dhyan_ ) while you are walking and talking; that you will be going to Mumbai. This is known as meditation. What is done while sitting around with closed eyes is known as concentration ( _ekagrata_ ) and not meditation ( _dhyan_ )!

When _mahatmas_ do _pratikraman_ , there prevails auspicious meditation ( _dharma_ _dhyan_ ) in worldly interactions ( _vyavahar_ ) and the meditation as the Self ( _nischaya, shukladhyan_ ) prevails. In Akram, the inner and outer are different. In Akram Vignan, for the Self ( _nischaya_ ) there is no adverse mediation of _artadhyan_ ( meditation that hurts the self) or _raudradhyan_ ( meditation that hurts the self and others) at all.

Krupaludev has said that Gnani Purush is verily my Self. Thus, doing meditation of Dada within is same as the meditation of the Self ( _shukladhyan, Atma dhyan_ ).

With Akram Gnan, One can attain a state where only one more life is left ( _ekavtari pad_ ). In this time and from this place, direct _moksha_ is not possible but it is possible via Mahavideh Kshetra. And by following the five Agnas, there is highest auspicious meditation ( _dharma dhyan_ ). It results in the selective binding of merit karma for purposes of reaching Mahavideh Kshetra. Even if one just casually happened to touch the Gnani, he comes within the limited amounts of birth-death cycles and if he has taken Gnan and stays in the Agnas more or less, He shall attain _moksha_ within fifteen more life times at the most!

There are four pillars of _shukladhyan_. In the first pillar, there is the indistinct experience ( _aspashta_ _vedan_ ) of the Self. Akram's _mahatmas_ are in this stage. Revered Dadashri Himself used to be in the second pillar which is the stage of clear and distinct experience of Self ( _spashta_ _vedan_ ); and in the third pillar, there is absolute Knowledge ( _keval_ _Gnan_ ) and with the fourth pillar, one attains _moksha_.

## [9] The Gnan that gives moksha in one more lifetime

In response to various questions asked by _mahatmas_ about the knowledge of the Self that they have attained, about the event of death, about Mahavideh Kshetra, about _moksha_ , about _mahatmas_ ' daily routine etc; Dadashri has given definitive answers. Reading them brings _mahatmas_ experience great gratitude and bliss for having attained this Gnan from Dadashri.

Who is known as a _mahatma_? Outer control ( _bahya_ _saiyam_ ) may or may not be there but there is tremendous inner control ( _antar_ _saiyam_ ). There is the absence anger-pride-deceit-greed ( _kashays_ ) within _._ Although there may be outward anger, but within there is 'this must not happen at all'.

The one who has attained the pure Self state is a _mahatma_.

What is the work of a _mahatma_? To settle the filled stock of karma ( _bharelo maal_ ) with equanimity.What is the duty of a _mahatma_? To remain _vitarag_ , to remain free of _rag_ - _dwesh_ (attachment-abhorrence) is the duty of a _mahatma_. What is known as the ideal life of a _mahatma_? It is when everyone at home and outside shows him a 'green flag'. Everyone is pleased with him.

What is the daily routine of a _mahatma_? Here, there is 'no law-law'. Whatever happens is correct. If something wrong (hurtful) happens 'this should not happen' should be the vision within. Should he get up early in the morning? Whenever one can get up is fine. However, in order to honor the Sun, it is better to arise before He arises!

How to fall asleep? Visualize the face of Dadashri and to softly repeat 'I am pure Self, I am pure Self' loud enough for only you to hear this and fall asleep. The awareness of pure Self will remain by doing this.To those _mahatmas_ who want to speed up going to _moksha_ , Dadashri says, "what happens if someone with a hurried nature rushes back and forth in the train after boarding it?"

Many _mahatmas_ wonder how many life times it will take for attaining _moksha_? Giving guarantee about this, Dadashri says, "If one follows my five Agnas, seventy percent of the times, he will go to _moksha_ in one life time only! And at the most, it may take three or four life times, and if someone is greedy, he may take all fifteen life times and if he doesn't follow the Agnas, he may have to do one hundred and fifty life times. And if someone goes in the wrong direction, does condemnation, he may even loose the chance for _moksha_ ".What awareness should _mahatmas_ be in at the time of death? At the end time, just 'see' what is happening within. If one is unsuccessful in doing that, one should stay in the Agna of the relative and the real, or the five Agnas! Dadashri gives complete asurance that Dada will be present at the end time. At the time of death, there will be bliss ( _samadhi_ ) Instead of the pain of death, there will be the bliss of Self!

Many are asking if this Gnan will continue in the next life. Dadashri says that this Gnan doesn't leave You. If You have reached up to eighty-one in this lifetime, it will start with eighty-two in the next lifetime.

The One whose _artadhyan_ and _raudradhyan_ have ceased; this transformation will make Him sit near a Tirthankara! Dadashri says that the five Agnas are for this lifetime only. In the subsequent life, all the Agnas would have been blended (natural) within You!! And those files with whom the attachment-abhorrence have ended, will not arise again. Otherwise, if attachment-abhorrence are pending, they will come again.

Following five Agnas binds One with the merit karma of the ultimate kind. Its' result gives the next life in enormous splendor! Next birth is near Simandhar Swami in Mahavideh Kshetra and all the conveniences are easy internally as well as outside.

_Mahatmas_ have obtained the visa for _moksha_ , now the ticket is being awaited. Dadashri says that when something happens and there is no displeasure on the face at all and there is stillness of the Self within; 'know' that the ticket for Mahavideh Kshetra has been received!

## [10] The glory of Akram Vignan

Akram Vignan is a wonderful science. Science means it is non-controversial, it gives cash results and is self-propelling ( _swayam_ _kriyakari_ ). You can get definitive solutions from all angles. It gives warning from within, it shows ones' own mistakes; it changes one tremendously from within. It keeps one constantly in the pure Self state ( _samadhi_ ) in the midst of physical sufferings ( _adhi_ ), mental suffering ( _vyadhi_ ) and suffering from external sources ( _upadhi_ ). Worries, external problems and tension don't touch You, doubt-fear-restlessness don't come in contact with You; those who have attained Akram Gnan are permanently established in this state! The one through whom wholesome transformation, the Self, is attained; surrender everything to Him. Transformation here is the attainment of the Self.

For Akram- _mahatmas_ , the _amas_ (dark-moon) of infinite lives is permanently gone within just two hours, during the Gnan Vidhi, and the light of the second day of moon shines. The road from the second day of moon to full moon is to be completed by following the five Agnas. Particularly, regular _satsang_ of Dada, as per the Fifth Agna and hold on tightly to this absolute _nimit_ through whom the Akram-Vignan has been attained and resolve any questions that may arise by surrendering all inner-intents and receiving answers directly from Him. This is the one and only way to attain the final completion in Akram Vignan.In Akram Vignan, one doesn't need to seek any further. All that is done in the step-by-step-path ( _karmic_ path). In Akram, Agna itself is the religion and Agna itself is the penance. Nothing else is there. What is the sign that one is wholly and entirely in Gnan? Despite being in the middle of acquisitiveness (material and worldly beings) He is absolutely _aprigrahi_ (non-acquisitive). And if He is not able to stay perfectly in Gnan; the benefit for his progress increases as the _parigraha_ decreases.

In Akram, when does ego become alive? If you stop following the five Agnas, ego will become alive again. Then, bad company will enter from all four angles and make the ego alive again!In Akram, is there the fear of falling down? One may progress more or progress less but there is no falling down at all. In Akram, what are the places where one falls? Eating meat, drinking alcohol, recreations drugs and sexual infidelity in marriage; the one who falls down because of these will not reach the destination! Not even a single bone of his will be found.

Dadashri has given beautiful description in detail about the five Agnas before he attained Gnan and His own efforts to attain the Self in the _karmic_ path. Dadashri says that from an ignorant person, You have become a _mahatma_. You have attained Gnan, now You are to stay in the Agnas, You stay pure and that purity will one day, take You from the level of a _mahatma_ to the state of a God!

# [1.1] Awareness of the Self

**Questioner** : What does _jagruti_ mean?

**Dadashri** : It means not to be asleep. The whole world is sleeping with open eyes. There is not a single person who is not asleep with open eyes. Presidents, officers, Prime Ministers, they are all asleep with their eyes open. When _jagruti_ (awakened awareness) rises, then One 'knows' what 'Chandubhai' (reader should substitute his own name for Chandubhai) is doing. He can also make a note of all that on paper and bring it here in the evening. Do people have such awareness ( _jagruti_ )? And awareness is that where one is aware of that which is beneficial or hurtful ( _hitahit_ ) on the path of liberation; where is such awareness in human beings nowadays?

Did the scripture writers have abhorrence ( _dwesh_ ) towards the world that they wrote such a thing? The whole world; even the ascetics, monks ( _sadhu_ , _sannyasi_ ), who are not in _saiyam_ (freedom from anger-pride-deceit-greed), are asleep with open eyes. And amidst all _sadhus_ (ascetics-monks) only the rare one with _saiyam_ can be considered awake. But how can there be one who is free from anger-pride-deceit-greed? There may be a rare one around but it is difficult to meet one.

Did that answer your question? Can 'You' not see what 'Chandubhai' is doing?

**Questioner** : I can.

**Dadashri** : And for how long do you have the awareness ( _khyal or laksha_ ) that 'I am _Shuddhatma_ '?

**Questioner** : Constantly.

**Dadashri** : You have become a _Shuddhatma_ (pure Self)! It is considered a constant conviction ( _pratiti_ ).

**Questioner** : Only when one has met Dada, when one has attained Dada's Gnan (knowledge of the Self); does such awareness arise, does it not?

**Dadashri** : That is a different matter altogether. It is difficult to have this awareness; because such awareness cannot be maintained in the current era. Very seldom does one have it. Such a one is born with it. He is born with such awareness. The awareness that begins ( _jagruti_ \- awakened awareness) upon attaining Gnan from Me never leaves. What an amazing thing it is, that it does not ever leave. One has constant awareness.

## Knowing that the doer is separate is verily the awareness

**Questioner** : Dada, what is considered as awareness? For example, when I get angry, when I get irritated – that has to do with the _prakruti_ (the non-Self complex); if at that same instant, 'I' become aware ( _khyal, jagruti_ ) that 'Chandubhai' became angry, is that called awakened awareness ( _jagruti_ )?

**Dadashri** : That verily is the awareness ( _jagruti_ ). 'You' became the knower of that.

**Questioner** : Yes, but if there is delay in it, then there is that much less awareness, is it not?

**Dadashri** : The delay means the unfolding _karma_ was sticky; that it why it took time. If someone spits (on you), if it is watery; you will be able to wash it off right away but if it is sticky; then it will take longer to wash off. Sticky _karma_ is the reason for delayed awareness. Nothing will happen if it is not sticky. So what if it is delayed, at least the awareness is there, is it not? The one who is awake will call out, 'Hey! Who's there?' and the thief will run away. But when he does not say anything, then he will take things and then leave, will he not?

If we tell someone who is not Self-realized ( _agnani_ ) 'why are you making such a mistake?' he will tell us, 'if I do not do this, this boy is not likely to behave!' When one cannot realize one's own mistakes and sees mistakes of others; that is a sign of the ignorant one ( _agnani_ ). He is constantly binding _karma_ and as a result, continues to suffer. And what is the sign of a Gnani? What is the sign of the one who has received the grace of the Gnani? Such a one has the awakened awareness ( _jagruti_ ) to see his own mistakes immediately, and has a constant inner intent ( _bhaav_ ) of wanting to become free from the mistakes.

## Journey from the beginning to the final station

The first (station) is that of the pure Self ( _Shuddhatma_ ), and the absolute Self ( _Paramatma_ ) is the final station. _Shuddhatma_ is the first of the 'suburbs' of the real Self. Then come many other 'suburbs' and then one arrives at the final station. As one gains more and more experience ( _anubhav_ ) and advances towards the next suburb, the stations keep changing. You have been dropped off at the first station; at the boundary of _moksha_. _Shuddhatma_ is the first station; from there one goes towards the central station and then ultimately reaches the final station.

One who has entered this boundary will remain in the awareness of the Self. He has attained the state of awakened awareness ( _jagruti_ ). He begins to see his own mistakes and does not become one with the unfolding of _karma_ effect ( _udayakar_ ). There is no problem with the unfolding of _karma_ ; the problem is with one becoming one with the _karma_ effect ( _udayakar_ ). A Gnani has unfolding _karma_ and so does an _agnani_ (one who does not have Self-Realization).

**Questioner** : Sometimes when the awareness of the Self and the non-Self remains; a fraction of purity arises.

**Dadashri** : That is an indication of readiness for the advanced level station ahead. 'You' will have to go even further than that. That is where the real effort ( _purushartha_ ) towards _moksha_ begins.

Having attained the understanding of _Atmagnan_ (knowledge of the Self) from the Gnani Purush, the journey into all the stations towards the absolute Self begins. However, nothing is attained by ascetics and monks ( _sadhus, sannyasis_ ) even if they recite 'I am _Shuddhatma_...I am _Shuddhatma_ ' for infinite lives. One has to attain the awareness of 'I am _Shuddhatma_ ', and lose the awareness, 'I am Chandubhai'.

## Awareness shows one ones's own mistakes

You see your own mistakes; You see so much, is that not enough awareness? Man is not able to see his own mistakes. Even the prominent ascetics and preceptors ( _sadhu_ - _maharaj_ ) can see just two or three of their own mistakes.

**Questioner** : Everyone has awareness after attaining the Gnan.

**Dadashri** : Constantly, it should be a twenty-four-hour-awareness. Have 'we' (the Gnani _Purush_ and the Lord within) not said that, if one does what 'we' tell him, if he lives completely by 'our' Agnas (special directives) and then if he has a single worry, he can file a claim of two hundred thousand rupees against 'us'?

**Questioner** : If someone has less awareness, does that mean that he is weak in following your Agnas?

**Dadashri** : The energy to abide by the Agnas is weak because the awareness is less and that is why the poor man is not able to abide by the Agnas. Then because he is not able to abide by them, he reaps the benefit accordingly. The poor man has all the intentions of living by the Agnas, but why is the awareness ( _jagruti_ ) less? That is because, for example, some person has bound such _karma_ for which he finds no solution for three hours whereas a straightforward person is able to come to a resolution of a problem through a single thought which gets implemented within ten to fifteen minutes. This Gnan will be completely present for him, in exactness. There are some people who get lost in a thought for hours. So despite this Gnan, the problems arise, there. Still, this Gnan will help him. That other, which is happening is a discharge ( _nikali_ ), is it not? That sticky stock will go away as it discharges and then the good stock will follow.

## Awareness is not an effect

**Questioner** : Is awareness an effect?

**Dadashri** : Awareness cannot be called an effect. Awareness is verily our _purushartha_ (the application of the Agnas of the Gnani), and therefore it cannot be called an effect. It is not dependent on anyone or anything else.

**Questioner** : By what method does it arise?

**Dadashri** : Awareness arises when 'we' give this Gnan and then as he lives within the Agnas. Awareness arises by living within the Agnas. This awareness is there for sure, but when one is not in Agna, then all these effects will continue to happen and the awareness 'leaves'.

Awareness is not an effect. Awareness is itself the Self ( _Atma_ ). Complete awareness is full Atma, absolute Self. However much awareness there is, there is that much Self ( _Atma_ ) and however much unawareness there is, there is that much of the non-Self complex ( _pudgal_ ).

**Questioner** : I do not have a fear that I will be entangled into it, but I feel in my mind that the end has not come.

**Dadashri** : The end will not come right now. It will take some time. And when it comes, there will no longer be any intent ( _bhaav_ ) in your mind.

**Questioner** : It would be nice if it becomes such that there is no effect of suffering, that much would be enough.

**Dadashri** : Effect will continue to take place. As long as there is a filled stock [causes from past life waiting for discharge], there is bound to be an effect, is there not? And because effect arises, there is awareness; otherwise there would be no awareness.

**Questioner** : This equation is true as far as becoming free; but where does the realm of the Self ( _swasatta_ ) lie?

**Dadashri** : The awareness that is there and that which cautions from within when mistakes occurs; that is the realm of the Self ( _swasatta_ ).

**Questioner** : Can you please help us experience such _swasatta_?

**Dadashri** : That is not possible right now. You have a tremendous debt of karma. _Swasatta_ cannot arise until that debt is cleared, can it? After all the debts have been cleared, then _swasatta_ will arise. _Swasatta_ is where there is no going into _parsatta_ (no involvement in the non-Self complex).

## Presence of the Gnan is awareness itself

Awareness will be there until the stage of _vitaragata_ (absolutlely free from attachment and abhorrence) is attained. It does not allow the mind to get stuck, it does not allow the intellect ( _buddhi_ ) to get stuck, it does not allow anything to get stuck anywhere; whereas unawareness does.

**Questioner** : Is _jagruti_ (awakened awareness) to acquire awareness ( _laksha_ ) of the Self?

**Dadashri** : No, you have attained the _laksha_ (awareness). _Jagruti_ (awakened awareness) means that with these five sentences (five Agnas) you immediately become aware and therefore Gnan will present. When Gnan presents itself in every situation; that is called awareness ( _jagruti_ ). When you are singing a _pada_ (spiritual song) and you can see every word of it, then that is awareness. When 'we' make you say, 'I bow to Simandhar Swami', at that time 'our' awareness is doing exactly that. That is the awareness that needs to increase. In doing that, it will increase more and more; it will increase some today, some tomorrow etc. In this way it will increase to absolute awareness. Only the awareness has to be raised. Absolute awareness is itself absolute Gnan ( _keval Gnan_ ). One can see all his mistakes with awareness. The world has no awareness and it sleeps with open eyes. To see others' mistakes is unawareness. An _agnani_ has a lot of that. When one does not see any mistakes of others and never becomes free from seeing his own mistakes, it is called awareness.

## The luster of Dada's awareness

What is awareness? The moment I say the name of Lord Krishna, I visualize His face that I have seen in pictures; I can see the whole picture and I also see Him in His real form; that is the kind of awareness I have. When you take the name of Lord Mahavir, you should 'see' Lord Mahavir at the same time you speak the words 'Lord Mahavir'. That is called awareness. However, generally when one speaks, he is aware of the word level, but one does not become awakened and aware at the core level of the words. 'We' have the awareness of each word that 'we' speak. Such should be the awareness. The moment 'we' say the name 'Simandhar Swami', 'we' see His picture and 'we' can also see His real state, the absolute enlightened Self. All the awareness is there. The awareness that constantly remains will eventually become absolute. Worldly life means unawareness. The Lord used to be 'awake' with His eyes closed and 'we' too, do the same.

**Questioner** : Dada, what kind of _upayoga_ (applied awakened awareness) is there when someone's talks make you laugh? What is Your _upayoga_ like at that time?

**Dadashri** : 'I' (the Self) never laugh. 'I' have never laughed. And whenever such situation arises, even then 'we' are always in _upayoga_. On occasions when there is laughter, 'we' never lose 'our' _upayoga_.

**Questioner** : What is the method of Your _upayoga_?

**Dadashri** : How can there be a method? The awareness itself is total. absolute light is glowing constantly. The Tirthankars used to 'see' their own mistakes day and night; 'we' see 'our' mistakes. 'We' can see the mistakes at the level where people of the world can never reach. 'We' 'see' what Tirthankars 'see'.

**Questioner** : Everyone's?

**Dadashri** : No, no, just 'ours'. Why would 'we' want to see other's mistakes? 'We' never see mistakes of others. 'We' see their mistakes but 'we' do not see them as being at fault ( _doshit_ ). 'We' see them as faultless ( _nirdosh_ ). 'We' see them as faultless the moment 'we' see the mistake.

**Questioner** : If a _mahatma_ is making a mistake, should Dada not point it out to him?

**Dadashri** : No, no. What do I have to do with that?

**Questioner** : Should you not tell him, if he asks you?

**Dadashri** : One has to discover it on his own. 'We' will not tell him. When 'we' tell him, it becomes thoretical. We would not tell him anything like that.

**Questioner** : Does that mean that if one 'sees' his own mistake, it has come into practical?

**Dadashri** : That is practical. What comes into practical is correct. Therefore 'we' never tell anyone 'you have these many mistakes; so correct them'. 'We' do not say such things.

**Questioner** : Does anyone get cautioned without any doership on Your part ( _naimittic_ )?

**Dadashri** : That happens sometimes with someone who is close to 'us', otherwise it does not. That is because it is only of any use if he can 'see' it himself. On the contrary, if I were to tell him, it would remain without giving any benefit, and he would be preoccupied with it. What good would that do? His awareness will grow as he does the _vidhis_ (special reading to be done with deep intent prescribed by Dadashri for _mahatmas_ ), and as he does _seva_ (service).

**Questioner** : You have complete awareness in every situation.

**Dadashri** : I do not have any awareness in what is going on in the world. I am not even aware of what day of the week it is today.

**Questioner** : Dada, you say that you do not have any awareness in worldly matters, but that somehow does not 'fit' with me.

**Dadashri** : How can it fit?

**Questioner** : When one has Gnan, he has everything in his awareness, but is there any indifference in it; does one become relatively free from expectations?

**Dadashri** : No. There is no memory ( _smruti_ ) of it. When there is no memory of it, then there is no _upayoga_ (applied awareness), and therefore there is no interference. The Self's tendencies cannot be there on that side, at all. You can have meaningful conversation with the relative self and other such things. Maintain awareness with steadiness; not memory.

Where else can the One who constantly dwells in the absolute Self, be? He dwells constantly in the absolute ( _keval_ ) only. That is why we mentioned that you were asking 'us', 'what is wrong with us _mahatmas_ calling you a Tirthankara?' No. This era of the Time Cycle, will raise objection if you were to call 'us' a Tirthankara. Therefore, this is the full stage right now that is within. Now the full stage that is within is called 'Dada Bhagwan'. This external part has become 356º and the inside is at the full stage at 360º.

## Not absolute, yet constant awareness

Whatever _siddhant_ (an incontrovertible principle that leads to the ultimate goal of liberation) that is practically applicable to a Time Cycle; that siddhant will be the one that is useful. That other _siddhant_ of the _kramik_ path did not help us. And the path of salvation today is just this Akram Vignan only. Otherwise, _moksha_ is unattainable even in millions of life times. And for You, it cautions You from within, that 'this is wrong'. It is trying to take You to _moksha_. And the awareness within is verily the Self, the Atma; nothing else is the Self. It cautions You; such is the awareness that has arisen within you, and that is the greatest wonder.

There should be constant awareness ( _jagruti_ ). It is not acceptable to have a single second worth of unawareness ( _ajagruti_ ). Complete awareness may not be there, but a fraction of it is constantly there. When complete awareness arises, it is called _keval Gnan_ (absolute knowledge, absolute enlightenment) Complete, absolute and constant! This here, after Gnan Vidhi, is incomplete and constant awakened awareness.

**Questioner** : I do not understand incomplete and constant awareness.

**Dadashri** : It means it is not _keval Gnan_. It would be called _keval Gnan_ if it were complete awareness. Now _purushartha_ (being in the five Agnas) is needed on Your part now that You have become a _Purush_ (the Self). Therefore do _purushartha_ now. However much You practice abiding by the the Agnas, that much awareness will increase within, completeness will arise. Wherever the awareness reaches; that is reaching closer to the Self. The closer You reach, the greater the light.

## Pragnya and jagruti – the couple

**Questioner** : Is there any difference between _pragnyashakti_ (liberating energy of the Self) and _jagruti_ (awareness as the Self, 'I am pure Soul')?

**Dadashri** : As the awakened awareness ( _jagruti_ ) becomes complete; as it becomes purer and purer and becomes absolutely pure; it is called _keval Gnan_. The _pragnyashakti_ then comes to an end when absolute enlightenment happens. _Pragnyashakti_ helps until one attains ultimate _moksha_. The Self, original absolute Self is constantly as _keval Gnan_. Nothing can touch the light.

**Questioner** : After we attain _moksha_ , does _jagruti_ (awakened awareness) do any work?

**Dadashri** : No, there is no awareness after that. There is nothing but the light. The Self is there.

**Questioner** : So will awakened awareness ( _jagruti_ ) and _pragnyashakti_ be there all the way to _moksha_?

**Dadashri** : Yes, both _pragnyashakti_ and awakened awareness work hand in hand. _Pragnyashakti_ keeps guiding everything towards the Self and away from the non-Self; and _jagruti_ holds on to that.

## Awareness is the main thing

**Questioner** : Is _upayoga_ (applied awareness) due to _jagruti_ (awakened awareness of the Self) or is _jagruti_ because of the _upayoga_?

**Dadashri** : No, _upayoga_ remains because of the awakened awareness ( _jagruti_ ). And if there is _upayoga_ , then it will give rise to awkened awareness again.

**Questioner** : This is like the egg before the chicken or the chicken beore the egg phenomenon.

**Dadashri** : No, but _upayoga_ is not like that. Awakened awareness ( _jagruti_ ) is the main thing and when it becomes complete, it is called _keval Gnan_. There is nothing else. _Upayoga_ is a result of awakened awareness ( _jagruti_ ). _Shuddha_ _upayoga_ (pure applied awareness) is a result of awakened awareness. Shubha _upayoga_ (auspicious awareness) is a result of awareness too, but it is illusory ( _bhranti_ ) awareness whereas this is awareness with Gnan.

Our duty ( _dharma_ ) is to take that awareness to the top, and that is called _shuddha_ _upayoga_.

**Questioner** : In the awareness I can see that I have these many obstacles. I cannot run any faster. Wherever I try to reach the subtle level, I see it being veiled, as if there is a wall in front of it. When I analyze that I cannot go any further, I do _pratikraman_ for the mistakes, I know the effect of the mistakes, I remain separate, but what should be eradicated at subtle level; that does not happen.

**Dadashri** : That will take time. So all the subtleness will come, but one has to go way beyond that subtleness. You will have to cross all the fortresses before the Self comes into _swasamvedan_ (the exact experience of the bliss as the Self).

**Questioner** : Is that what is called _spashta-vedan_ (clear experience of the Self)?

**Dadashri** : Yes. But one will enter _swasamvedan_ prior to _spashta-vedan_. As _swasamvedan_ increases, how far it will go? The answer is; it will go all the way to _spashta-vedan_. This happens when the awakened awareness ( _jagruti_ ) gradually increases.

Complete awakened awareness is _keval Gnan_ and _keval Gnan_ is the _Paramatma_ – the absolute Self. And 'we' constantly converse with that _Paramatma_ , so will you have any misery after you sit with Me? Except for the twenty-four Tirthankaras, _Paramatma_ has never manifest in a body form.

## No one was able to digest Kevalgnan in the current era

What does this Gnan mean? _Jagruti_ – awakened awareness as the Self. _Shuddhatma_ is nothing other than the awakened awareness ( _jagruti_ ). Now as the awareness ( _jagruti_ ) increases, it will not allow any suffering to arise within, it will not allow the ego to arise within, it will not allow any such thing; what more do You need? Then all You have to do is to 'see' this drama of 'Chandubhai'.

Awareness as the Self ( _jagruti_ ) should increase. _keval Gnan_ means complete awareness; not an iota of unawareness. And this science ( _vignan_ ) itself is _keval Gnan_. This whole science is about remaining as the 'knower-seer' ( _gnata-drashta_ ). I have given you _keval Gnan_ , but you cannot digest it, and therefore You will be short by a few degrees. I am short by four degrees and so You will be short by few more degrees. What is the problem if you cannot digest it? No one is likely to have any problems with our Gnan.

You begin to gain additional degrees from the moment You attained this Gnan and have started to live by the Agnas. _keval Gnan_ occurs when complete 360º are attained. I have 356º. You will rise up to the additional degrees and reach 356º, will You not? Remaining in this awareness is the cause for _keval Gnan_. _keval Gnan_ itself is _moksha_. _Moksha_ itself is _keval Gnan_. That is the cause for _moksha_ experienced here, and You will be able to come into the state same as Dada. If You follow the path that I did, You will end up where I stand. The path ahead is closed for Me. Your path is open.

## This is how awareness increases

**Questioner** : How can awareness ( _jagruti_ ) increase?

**Dadashri** : One is awakened after attaining the Gnan, thereafter the awareness will keep increasing in direct proportion to how much he is able to abide by the five Agnas. And one is able to abide by the Agnas because of the awareness, which in turn increases the awareness. There is no other solution.

**Questioner** : Dada, is this how the awareness increases so that I can remain in the 'knower-seer' state? Do I have to do anything else?

**Dadashri** : Awareness is going to increase. When one attains Dada's Gnan and lives in the five Agnas, then there is nothing but sheer awareness.

**Questioner** : What should I do to be in the five Agnas even better?

**Dadashri** : Yes, much more will happen. It will increase now that You have Dada's blessing. It will continue to increase as you receive Dada's blessings, as You have His _darshan_ , as You do the _vidhi_.

**Questioner** : The weapon of _pratikraman_ comes very useful in increasing the awareness, does it not?

**Dadashri** : Yes, You have to use that weapon. _Pratikraman_ is not just to increase awareness ( _jagruti_ ); it has many other advantages too.

## Awareness increases by being near the One who is aware

**Questioner:** The awakened awareness ( _jagruti_ ) increases gradually, but what should I do to increase it even more?

Dadashri: The one who wants to increase his awakened awareness should sit with the one who is _jagrut_ (aware). It is like this, if everyone is dozing (unaware) then you too will start dozing. If everyone is aware, then even if you are likely to doze off, it will stop. Therefore sit with those who are aware. If there is any attachment ( _raag_ ) at this time then at the most it will be for the Gnani or the Gnani's followers. You do not have attachment for anyone other than these, do you?

**Questioner:** Attachment does not arise anywhere else.

**Dadashri:** This attachment (attachment for the Gnani and His followers) is considered the cause for current living experience of _moksha_. This attachment ( _raag_ ) for the Gnani brings about circumstances which will make it easy for You to be with Him and as a result Your awareness ( _jagruti_ ) will rise. Your lamp will shine and glow. If you are sitting on a platform of a railway station and people around you are dozing, then you too will start dozing, even though I am doing _satsang_ there. So you reap the fruit of those with whom you sit. If you sit with the one who is not awake ( _ajagrut_ ), then you too will become unaware and if you sit with one with awareness ( _jagrut_ ) then you reap the fruit of awakened awareness ( _jagruti_ ). When you go for business meetings, then you have to sit with them ( _ajagrut_ ) only, don't you?

**Questioner:** I have to sit with them. So _ajagruti_ (unawareness) will arise in that, will it not?

**Dadashri:** Yes, it will. _Ajagruti_ will happen naturally. So if 'You' continue to 'know' this _ajagruti_ , then that is also called _jagruti –_ awakened awareness. To 'know' that this is unawareness ( _ajagruti_ ) is in itself awareness too.

**Questioner:** Dadaji, the causes of obstructing this awakened awareness; are they from the past life or are some from the present life too?

**Dadashri:** The causes of the past life were full of only _ajagruti_. Now, in this life, after having attained the Gnan, the causes are that of living in the five Agnas only. When one remains in the Agnas, then the awareness will be heightened by that much.

**Questioner:** So then which are the current causes, which obstruct the awakened awareness ( _jagruti_ )?

**Dadashri:** When one is not able to become familiar ( _parichaya_ ) with Me, when one does not completely understand My talk.

**Questioner:** Is it possible for one to completely understand Your talk?

**Dadashri:** Why can one not understand? If one remains in familiarity ( _parichaya_ ) with Me and makes a firm commitment to understand, then why would he not understand?

**Questioner:** In spite of making the decision, I still cannot understand, what is the reason for this?

**Dadashri:** There is no ( _parichaya_ ) familiarity. You are cutting off the link. Today you sat here for two hours and again you will leave half way through, then tomorrow another two hours will be wasted. Instead if you were to sit constinuously for a long time, without inturruption, the understanding will arise.

**Questioner:** But all that is dependent upon the external circumstances; is it not? I have the firm decision ( _nischaya_ ) to establish a link but...

**Dadashri:** That is correct. That is 'why' we are saying that it is _vyavasthit_ , do we not? Such circumstances need to come together.

**Questioner:** But that decision ( _nischaya_ ) is there, so will the circumstances come together in future? Since this decision is there, then will _vyavasthit_ change?

**Dadashri:** It will change! _Vyavasthit_ will continue to change. Depending upon the decision, _vyavasthit_ will only go in that direction. The direction in which the decision is, _vyavasthit_ has to follow that direction. The rule of _vyavasthit_ is, 'in which direction is the decision?'

**Questioner:** But those prior decisions will not obstruct, will they?

**Dadashri:** There is no concern here of those previous ones. What is Your decision ( _nischaya_ ) today? But the decision that is not contradictory and wavering is called _nischaya._

**Questioner:** But everybody is helpless in front of the _prakruti_ (the non-Self complex of mind, speech and body).

**Dadashri:** Only extraordinary men will not become helpless in front of the _prakruti_. Otherwise everybody is helpless in front of the _prakruti_.

## Awareness in daily life interactions

**Questioner:** Now how can we attain awareness ( _jagruti_ ) in the daily life interaction ( _vyavahar_ )?

**Dadashri:** If you remain clear in your worldly interactions ( _vyavahar_ ) then you can attain awareness. If your worldly interaction is such that people point fingers at you, then you will not attain awareness in such _vyavahar_. If you are a businessman and you open your business one day at 3:00 o'clock, another day at 5:00 o'clock then you cannot get awareness and your _vyavahar_ is considered spoilt. There should be no one pointing a finger at you in your _vyavahar_. Do people point fingers at you?

**Questioner:** Yes.

**Dadashri:** Therefore in that worldly interaction, you have not been cleared. When no one points a finger at you, then awareness will be good.

**Questioner:** Even after becoming the 'knower-seer' ( _gnata_ - _drashta_ ) the worldly life interactions have to continue, do they not?

**Dadashri:** Worldly interactions happen. It continues to happen on its own. In the knower-seer ( _gnata-drashta_ ) state, the worldly life interaction continues for sure. When one becomes knower-seer, it means the real becomes the real and the relative becomes the relative. However the overall attentiveness will be there. This is because Atma, the Self does not have to keep the attention to function in worldly interaction; that is the function of the _chit_ [subtle component of vision and knowledge in the inner functioning instrument called _antahkaran_ ].

**Questioner:** But Dada, why is it that sometimes there is persistent awareness but when something needs to be done in worldly interactions, mistakes are made?

**Dadashri:** But even there, it should become regular in _vyavahar_ too, shouldn't it?

**Questioner:** But why does it break down like that?

**Dadashri:** If You set the awareness then it will stay for sure. 'You' should tell 'Chandubhai' that, 'You should not ruin your worldly interactions ( _vyavahar_ ); it should be clean. There should be no complaints against you in your worldly interactions.'

## The rubbish burns and awareness increases

**Questioner** : So does one not have to do anything to increase that awareness?

**Dadashri** : Nothing is to be done, and the awareness ( _jagruti_ ) keeps increasing as the files decrease. Your _jagruti_ will continue to increase, because the old stock of _karma_ is going to discharge. However, this person here attained intense awareness automatically, on the very day of the Gnan Vidhi. Thereafter the awareness has remained constantly. For You, the awareness will keep increasing as that garbage of old _karma_ burns off.

**Questioner** : That is a cause-effect relationship, is it not?

**Dadashri** : Yes, of course that relationship is there. You will have to burn off that garbage, will You not? Then it will not cause you any kind of harm. There will not be any garbage left to do so. That is when You will feel the bliss of living a real life, will You not? Otherwise the life gets ruined.

**Questioner:** After becoming _Shuddhatma_ (pure Self), changes happen in the state of the _pudgal_ (the non-Self complex of thoughts, speech and acts); on what basis do they become evident?

**Dadashri:** It is so because of increase in _jagruti_ (awakened awareness).

**Questioner** : Whose awareness has increased?

**Dadashri** : It is not of the original absolute Self. It is of the one who used to be 'asleep', the one who had the illusion ( _bhranti_ ).

## Being around the Gnani increases jagruti

**Dadashri:** If we are talking and people around us are making a lot of noise, we will not be able to hear each other well, right? The same applies here. When _karma_ within unfolds then at that time suffocation arises inside. There is no problem in that. It is not harmful. At that time the awakened awareness ( _jagruti_ ) has not left. The awakened awareness is there for sure. It will not remain there in the same intensity; there is a little dozing off.

I have said that this is awakened awareness, but it has not yet blossomed. It is for that reason that 'we' keep on talking so it will blossom. It will blossom on this side, on that side, in this corner, in that corner. So the awareness will blossom at every corner. That is why 'we' speak, 'we' are not telling You to do anything.

**Questioner:** It may be that the awakened awareness ( _jagruti_ ) will prevail in whatever orderly manner it is meant to. Is there a way of increasing that awareness?

**Dadashri:** Yes. If one keeps sitting near 'us, (the Gnani Purush)' then this awakened awareness ( _jagruti_ ) will increase. That is why people keep coming here everyday. Otherwise, would I not make it happen in just one day? In the good Time Cycle era ( _Satyug_ ), it had to be done only once. But here people have such a huge debt. What horrendous karmic debt! They have been sitting on the verge of bankruptcy! I do _vidhis_ [silent auspicious blessings performed by the Gnani for the salvation of the seeker and _mahatma_ ] everyday; even then their debts are not ending. But eventually by doing this it will finish.

## That which presents when needed, is Gnan

**Questioner:** Constant awareness ( _jagruti_ ) does not remain in a way, but when a tough situation arises, the Gnan is immediately present.

**Dadashri:** The Gnan is present at that time. That which always presents when needed is called Gnan. How can we call it Gnan, when it does not present when needed?

**Questioner:** You have separated the Self from the non-Self for us. Thereafter we should stay in the state of the Self only, shouldn't we? So then why does everything become a mixture?

**Dadashri:** It is like this, You have to 'see' this _upadhi_ (external evidences that disturb the non-Self). If You (the Self) stick your hand (interfere) in this trouble of the non-Self, then you will get burnt. 'Seeing' the _holi_ fire (ceremonial bonfire of holi festival, in which people roast coconuts and spray colors on each other) does not burn your eyes. But if you put your hand in the fire to remove the coconut, you will get burnt. You were putting your hand to remove the coconut (becoming 'I am Chandubhai') that is why this happened. That is why I have told you that the next time I give You Gnan, take care of it, by wisening up.

**Questioner:** But after having the separation of the Self and the non-Self, I keep going in the fire to pick up that coconut [entering the domain of the non-Self]. It should not happen, should it?

**Dadashri:** Yes. You are entering the non-Self. 'You' have awareness, but 'You' are pushing away the awareness ( _jagruti_ ) to enter the non-Self. This is because the unfolding effect of karma is heavy. So then how long can a person tolerate this? How long can one hold a finger under the faucet that is turned on? One can hold it as long as the force of water is coming out of a quarter or a half inch pipe, but if the force is from a two inch pipe, his finger will move away. Similarly these karmic effects are so heavy that one's awakened awareness ( _jagruti_ ) will not remain. How many years did it take you to get a college degree?

**Questioner:** Six.

**Dadashri:** I do not need that many years. I am just saying it is more than enough if you stay only six months with Me. The loss of infinite life times will be paid off.

## Bitter experience gives rise to awareness

Day and night, this man's entire _chit_ is constantly engaged in making sure that no one gets hurt or something of the sort. The one whose _chit_ is in service of others and obliging others the whole day long, will be in a relative pleasure sense of coolness ( _thandak_ ). So his awareness of Gnan is less. On the other hand, a cunning person's awareness will increase a lot, because he has a lot of burning within, so with awareness, he feels a lot of 'coolness' ( _thandak_ ) and it will increase his faith in it tremendously. Then he will follow it very strongly. This is how all the calculation is.

Those who do service for others ( _seva_ ) have inner sense of pleasure ( _thandak_ ). The _thandak_ that happens with the Gnan Vidhi that 'we' give; happens at a very high level for the one who has been referred to here as, the 'cunning one'. It is very different. His awareness will jell the very same day. The awareness of the ones who do _seva_ begins at a low level.

If he comes across someone who defeats him or tells him, 'you have no sense' or other negative things, he will immediately become aware of 'I am _Shuddhatma_ '. [But] When others tell him, 'welcome, welcome', then the awareness will not arise. Awareness will be maintained if one has 'two to four bitter pills' in a day.

When there is such a big difference between applying soap to a garment soaked in cold water and a garment soaked in hot water, in the outcome of how well a cloth is washed, then how much of a difference this would make?

## Awakened awareness: convenience and inconvenience

**Questioner** : Is awakened awareness ( _jagruti_ ) based on merit _karma_ ( _punyai_ )? Or is there a relation between awakened awareness and merit _karma_?

**Dadashri** : _Punyai_ is needed in everything. _Punyai_ is needed for the right circumstances to come together, for sure. But You have to make a firm decision that You want to maintain the awakened awareness and for that You want to do _purushartha_.

**Questioner** : There is less awakened awareness during that which is convenient ( _anukuda_ ) and greater during that which is inconvenient ( _pratikuda_ ), why is that?

**Dadashri** : It is like this; there is pleasure in that which is convenient. When a nice cool breeze is blowing, an entire hour can pass but how difficult it is to pass an hour when it is very hot? An hour in a cool breeze will pass just like that. Similarly, one will eat a nice meal in no time and if the meal is not very palatable and he is hungry, then he has no choice but eat it.

**Questioner** : But why is there greater awareness when there is inconvenience?

**Dadashri** : Inconvenience ( _pratikudata_ ) is a vitamin for the Self, whereas convenience ( _anukudata_ ) is vitamin for the non-Self complex, the _pudgal_. _Pudgal_ becomes healthy with convenient circumstances and the Self becomes 'healthy' in inconvenient circumstances. All circumstances are beneficial, if You understand this.

Convenience or inconvenience is all of the external, the non-Self only. It is this external, the non-Self that undergoes the experiences ( _vartey_ ), and not the Self. The external is absent during inconvenient circumstance and the Self is present. During convenient circumstances, the external is there for sure. Therefore if you want the Self to be present, then inconvenience is better and convenient circumstance is better if you want the body to be present.

If You want to become the Self, then inconvenience is beneficial, and convenience is beneficial if You do not want to be the Self. When one follows the path of awareness ( _jagruti_ ), inconvenience is beneficial and on the path of unawareness, convenience is beneficial.

**Questioner** : The benefit is even greater if one maintains awareness even in convenient circumstances, is it not?

**Dadashri** : One cannot maintain complete awareness. That is why 'we' 'make' it inconvenient, if it is not.

**Questioner** : Convenience and inconvenience is a matter of belief, is it not? Or is it naturally that way?

**Dadashri** : It is exact. But as long as the mind is there, it will be there. As long as it depends on the mind, it will be like that.

**Questioner** : Even this body experiences convenience and inconvenience, does it not?

**Dadashri** : Actually, the body does not experience it; it is the mind that does.

**Questioner** : If it is hot and one suddenly feels suffocation, is it the body that feels the heat or is it the mind that feels it?

**Dadashri** : It is of the mind ( _mana_ ). The body does not experience anything. The mind starts when the intellect ( _buddhi_ ) says something. There is no problem if the intellect does not say anything. _Buddhi_ means worldly awareness.

**Questioner** : Inconvenience is actually convenience; the intellect can set up such 'contradictory' belief within, can it not?

**Dadashri** : Yes. The one who wants to go to _moksha_ , he sees inconvenience as convenience. Real benefit lies in inconvenience. Therefore, even on a cold night, 'we' remove the blanket so that awareness is maintained.

**Questioner** : What kind of awareness are You in, at that time?

**Dadashri** : The awareness remains in awareness, otherwise the awareness sleeps.

**Questioner** : You don't feel sleepy if you are cold. So when you are awake, You remain in the awareness, is that the way?

**Dadashri** : Otherwise, I will fall asleep. And at that time there is no one to wake Me up, is there?

**Questioner** : In what awareness do You remain within?

**Dadashri** : The unawareness will decrease, will it not? If you are awake, then whatever You know, such as 'I am _Shuddhatma_ ', only that would be there, no?

## Awareness even before a thought arises

**Questioner** : Dada has said that if I fall asleep saying, 'I am _Shuddhatma_...I am _Shuddhatma_ ' and do Dada's _niddhidhyasan_ [mental visual contemplation of Dadashri], then the 'water' from the 'tap' will 'drip' all night long. What kind of awareness is that?

**Dadashri** : That is called _khyal._ It is persistent awareness. It is good even if it stays that way.

**Questioner** : The stage beyond that is the awareness that You are talking about, is that right?

**Dadashri** : The lamp will never extinguish. You will never have to light it again. The awareness has to be taken all the way to the point where You can remain the knower-seer of what the mind is showing. After that You will not have to take it anywhere. So what do 'we, the Gnani Purush' call _jagruti_ (awakened awareness)? It is that which even before a thought arises, You will understand that it is a _gneya_ (that which is to be known) and that You are the _gnata,_ the knower.

**Questioner** : What is the difference between knowing-seeing ( _jovoon-jaanavoo_ ) and awareness?

**Dadashri** : They are two different things. Knowing-seeing is correctness, whereas awareness is something that increases and decreases. It is dependent on the veils of ignorance ( _avaran_ ). Awareness will become dull if one eats _doodhpak_ (sweetened milk with aromatic spices), and it increases if one remains hungry. Try eating doodhpak one day; you will realize just how much awareness remains.

## Dozing off is a loss

**Questioner** : Having met Dada and having attained Gnan, how much danger is there, if I remain unaware?

**Dadashri** : As much as you doze. And if You don't doze; then that much of it. Whatever passes without You 'seeing' it, then that much liability remains. You will have to 'see' it again. When You 'see' it, it will be washed away. Every unfolding effect of _karma_ will be washed off by 'seeing' it. And if you become one with ( _tanmayakar_ ) that effect, then that _karma_ will remain uncleared. After the separation of the Self, if one remains in the awareness as the Self; no account of _karma_ is bound whatsoever. It sticks only when the awareness becomes dim.

**Questioner** : What sticks?

**Dadashri** : Sticks means that whatever account needs to be cleared, it will remain as it is, if it is not cleared, no?

**Questioner** : That old one does not get cleaned but the new one will not get spoiled?

**Dadashri** : It has nothing to do with the new one, does it?

**Questioner** : It is this one that we have to purify and let go of, right?

**Dadashri** : They have to be purified and sent off on their way but if they are not sent off, then they will remain with you as stock.

# [1.2] Awareness of the separation

## Unaffected state despite mental, physical or externally induced problems

**Dadashri** : 'Chandubhai' is Your neighbor is he not, or is it you yourself?

**Questioner** : The mind-body, everything is neighbor number one. **Dadashri** : The first neighbor, the closest neighbor. If 'Chandubhai' eats ice cream, You will know that he is eating icecream, no?

**Questioner** : Even when 'Chandubhai' is getting a beating, 'I' will know.

**Dadashri** : Yes, You will know that. One has to become worry free in this world and be free from any effects while in the midst of _aadhi_ (mental pain), _vyadhi_ (physical pain) and _upadhi_ (externally induced pain). Has some of that happened or not?

**Questioner** : Dada, it has become such that others see what is happening to me as _upadhi_ (externally induced pain) but I do not see it that way.

**Dadashri** : This constant absence of worry and no _upadhi_ effects, is the state of a Gnani, that is Your state, is it not? You were possessed by the ghost of 'I am Chandubhai'. That state takes all the beating and it also enjoys everything. Now, after Gnan, only the scars from the beating remain, which you will have to suffer. That ghost has been removed. But there is burning from the scars; you will have to rub some ointment on them. You do not have to worry or be anxious anymore.You have to keep 'seeing' Chandubhai when he is drinking four cups of tea. You and Chandubhai have nothing to do with each other.

## Would you not know your self?

'You' should 'know' what 'Chandubhai' is doing. Even when Chandubhai is giving judgement as a judge, You should 'know' what this judge is doing. When You 'see'; that is your Gnan, and what the judge is doing, that is his gnan. Both are carrying out their duties. The Self is carrying out the duty as the Self, and the 'boss' (Chandubhai; non-Self) is carrying out his duty as a boss. Would You not know the boss? He is a good man but is he also a little bad?

**Questioner** : Little bad.

**Dadashri** : See! You know him! Who would say such an unbiased thing if it were 'I am truly the boss'? If someone says, 'You do not have any sense', then tell him, 'Sir, you realized this today, but I have known that right from the beginning.' That is what You should say. 'You realized that today, but I have known Chandubhai my whole life.' Would You know Chandubhai or not?

**Questioner** : Very well.

**Dadashri** : You know him very well; you know where he is straightforward, where he is obstinate, where he is crooked and all such things, no? So then what is the problem if someone calls him crooked? Besides no one can take anything away from You – the Self. Whatever little they take, it will be of Chandubhai's. No one is going to take anything from You, because they do not even know You! Who would know You? Our _mahatmas_ would.

## The knower of the defect is the Self

**Questioner:** Dada, my biggest defect is that.....

**Dadashri:** Yes, the defect is there but because you know about it, You are the Self, no? Where is Your defect? The defect is of this _pudgal_ (non-Self complex of the mind, body and speech); that is the way it was charged in the past life. Where is the loss to You in that? Dada (the Lord within) is over your head and if this _pudgal_ is defective, Dada will accept it but why should You take it upon Yourself? You had to take the responsibility as long as you were 'Chandubhai'. Now, You are no longer 'Chandubhai', so why should you take on 'Chandubhai's' load? The neighbor has to follow the rules. If he (Chandubhai) cries, then do You have to start crying too? If You know what Chandubhai is like, then that is Gnan.

You are the Self and this is the _pudgal_ (non-Self)! If You get scared then it will take over. Say, 'even if the entire world gets shaken up, even if this body gets a fever or becomes paralyzed or gets burnt, 'I' will not be scared'. It is a loss to the _pudgal_ ; You will never incur any loss. The loss is in the foreign department (the non-Self), not in the home department (the Self). The businesses of these two are entirely separate. Are the owner and the shop separate or are they one?

**Questioner:** Separate.

**Dadashri:** When the shop is burning, he thinks he is on fire. Hey you! Are you on fire or is the shop on fire? The shop is on fire; so let's go and have a cup of tea. But then he goes around crying 'I got burnt...I got burnt...' He goes around carrying the load that belongs to others.

**Questioner:** When such circumstances arise, _artadhyan_ (adverse meditation that hurts the self) _raudradhyan_ (adverse meditation that hurts the self and others) do happen for sure. After that I also do _pratikraman_ (inner recall of mistakes, remorseful confession and asking for forgiveness, and resolving never to repeat the mistake) too.

**Dadashri:** That is not called _artadhyan_ - _raudradhayan_. That _artadhyan_ - _raudradhayan_ is not happening to You. You are the Self. It happens to Chandubhai (the non-Self complex). If it gets too burdensome for Chandubhai, then You should tell Chandubhai, 'Take it easy.' And when file no. one, Chandubhai is talking to another person, You should 'know' that too and he will also 'know', what communication transpired. You are the knower-seer ( _gnata_ - _drashta_ ) in eternal bliss ( _parmanandi_ ). The Self remains as the Self ( _swabhav_ ).

If Chandubhai becomes wise, observe his wisdom, 'Oh ho! What wisdom!' If he goes crazy, then observe his craziness. If he is confused, see his confusion. What else is going to happen, other than this? Did you ever become emotional when you were young?

**Questioner:** I did. It still happens. But it has decreased since taking this Gnan.

**Dadashri:** Yes. But after taking Gnan You do not have any responsibility over your head, do You? After all it is Chandubhai's responsibility, isn't it? So You are separate, Chandubhai is separate. Chandubhai becomes emotional, You do not become emotional, do You?

**Questioner:** No. Sometimes the Self becomes one with the non-Self again, and sometime the Self and the non-Self remain separate.

**Dadashri:** It is a different thing that the Self and the non-Self become one. But the Self and the non-Self have been separated. A day will come when both will remain absolutely separate. At this moment the other rooms have not been vacated properly, have they? That is why right now You have to come together. The Self and the non-Self will remain separate as the rooms begin to become empty. This is because the separation that has happened. Fears arising in the non-Self ( _pudgal_ ) are ghosts of the non-Self. We do not need to be afraid of them. These are called non-Self complex ghosts. 'You' should tell 'Chandubhai', 'be a Kshatriya (member of warrior class), you behaving like a Vanik (merchant) will not work. Let all the other miseries come. Let the legs hurt, let the head hurt!'. That is all _pudgal_ , the non-Self and You are the Self and You are separate!

## Where is the suffering for the egoless body complex?

If someone comes to take Chandubhai away to jail, what would You do?

**Questioner** : 'I' would go with Chandubhai.

**Dadashri** : Yes. You should tell the policeman, 'Here is Chandubhai, go ahead and take him!' At home, we have to lock the door, so what is wrong with the police closing the door behind you, for you? So all this is just luxury. Is there no luxury in jail? Instead of sleeping here with four other people, there is greater luxury in sleeping alone in the jail.

However, the Self is beyond any pain ( _dukha_ ) anywhere. And so the _pudgal_ (non-Self complex) that is subservient to the Self, cannot have any pain ( _dukha_ ) at all, can it? There is suffering of pain for it only as long as it is in the favor of the _pudgal,_ the non-Self complex.

Who is old?

**Questioner** : Dada is looking very young today.

**Dadashri** : No, but that is what they all say every day. I too look in the mirror to see how he looks? I too see him young. An effect will happen within when everyone says this, no? However, I never say, 'I am old', because I am _Shuddhatma_. This, the body is what gets old. It will not say that. How can it say anything without asking 'Me'? For the purpose of worldly interaction, you can say, 'I am old', but otherwise one cannot say 'I am old', because the Self is _Shuddhatma_ and the Self's account is different. Having become _Shuddhatma_ , if You say 'I am old', then that is what you will really become. So, when you say, 'I am old', you are not saying that for You, the Self. You know within that You are separate and that this is being said about Chandubhai. Therefore You will not be affected. Everything is effective. In this world, every spoken word has an effect.

When 'Chandubhai' says 'I am not well', then the You within, should understand that 'it is not 'I' but Chandubhai who is not well'.

**Questioner** : Yes, Dada. I have to say it for Chandubhai and I should say positive things like 'I am healthy'.

**Dadashri** : So say that you are in good health. When Chandubhai says, 'My health is not good', then You say, 'No, it is good.' It is not much but it will keep him at ease. But if You say 'it is good', then it will become good and if You say 'it is bad', then it will become bad. So, one becomes what one envisions ( _chintavan_ ). 'I' am separate and Chandubhai is separate. 'You' should never become one with Chandubhai. 'Chandubhai is hungry, 'Chandubhai wants to eat, Chandubhai cooked the meal, Chandubhai does not understand, Chandubhai understands everything', keep this kind of language.

## The inner state of a paralyzed mahatma

When a person, who does not have Gnan, becomes paralyzed, his whole self becomes like that. When people visit him and tell him, 'Oh no! You lost that part of the body', he starts crying and says, 'I lost this and I lost that.' he experiences tremendous suffering.

Now when someone who has Gnan is paralyzed, what will he say to his visitors? He will say, 'This whole left side is paralysed, but the one whom you have come to see, 'I' am 'seeing' him too. 'I' am seeing him and you are seeing him too. We are both 'seers' of one who is paralysed'. This Gnan gives fruits here. It gives very good result.

Still, no matter how much our _mahatmas_ have progressed in Gnan, if someone were to ask them, 'Do you like being paralysed?' they will say, 'No I do not like it.' They do not scorn what has happened to them, but they will not welcome it either. They will say 'it would have been nice if it did not come'. Who would want such suffering?

## Profit-loss does not affect the accountant

If you are working dealing with the stock market and one day you ask your accountant to take care of the stock market while you are attending a wedding for two days, he will take care of it and even if he incurs a loss, he will not feel bad. He knows that it would have been nice if that had not happened. His boss will incur the loss. But he does not feel that 'I incurred the loss', does he? What if he makes a profit?

**Questioner** : Not even then.

**Dadashri** : Yes, similarly, You have to tell Chandubhai, take Dada's name and tell him how it is, then it is not Your concern. Is it difficult to follow what I am saying? If You put into practice whatever Dada says, then everything will be fine. It will show you the safe-side.

## The Gnani verily is my Atma

How often do you remember Dada?

**Questioner** : Everyday.

**Dadashri** : The Lord has said that the Gnani Purush is your own Self. And remembering this Dada, is itself the Self. Otherwise how will you remember that? The Gnani Purush is your Atma. Therefore, until you get the clear experience of the Self, do what the Gnani Purush tells you. You are currently experiencing this, the experience of the Self that cautions you day and night. Does it not? Now Chandubhai may continue to be angry, but if he is irritated within, then You will tell him 'no'. Tell him, 'No, this should not happen'. So now, who are these two entities? Before Gnan, there were not two. It is the Self (Atma) that is constantly present. The Self that is attained in Akram vignan, is such that it cannot be attained in a million lives. And when the Self expresses; worries leave.

**Questioner** : But when the file comes and in dealing with it with equanimity, it feels that Chandubhai is separate and I am separate, and that it is happening to the _pudgal_ (non-Self complex).

**Dadashri** : That awareness will remain for sure! The Self is separate for sure! 'Dada' remains in memory after the separation, otherwise the memory will not be there, and only after the separation can one remain in the five Agnas, otherwise not. Do you experience the separation? 'I am separate' – when You experience this, then what more? You experience the separation and for the Gnanis of the _kramic_ path, they reach to the point where they can say, 'It seems that I am separate'.

## You cannot protect 'Chandubhai'

Now what is the question? What are you trying to say?

**Questioner** : Dada, I did not ask a question, this lady did.

**Dadashri** : Whoever may have asked the question, but it sounded as if the question came from you.

**Questioner** : It was not my question, Dada.

**Dadashri** : What is Your concern there? You are _Shuddhatma_ (pure Soul), what do You have to do with any of that? You have become the Self, and yet You are siding with Chandubhai?

**Questioner** : I should not do that, Dada.

**Dadashri** : You just took the side, did You not? All these people clearly saw that. It may be anybody's question, but you asked that question, did you not? All I know is that you asked the question. But 'you', means who asked that question? Did Chandubhai ask that question? 'You' are _Shuddhatma_ , what do You have to do with that? So You should say, 'Chandubhai asked the question, but it is not this Chandubhai's question.' Then when 'we' ask, 'Whose question is it then?' Then you will say 'it is this lady's question'. And it is not even her own question; she too is a _Shuddhatma_. All of that should remain in your awareness ( _laksha, khyal_ ). Gnan means relative and real should all remain in your awareness ( _laksha_ ). This Gnan means all this; the real and the relative should remain in one's awareness ( _laksha_ ) _._

**Questioner** : It should, Dada.

**Dadashri** : You agree all the time, but the awareness does not remain and then you complain. It should remain in your awareness ( _laksha_ ), should it not? You must be firm in Your decision that, 'I want to remain aware.' Thereafter, Dada's grace will shower upon You. You have not decided even once! Such unflinching decision ( _nischaya_ ) is not there, is there?

**Questioner** : You are shattering all the veils ( _avarano_ ) for us. Otherwise, nothing beyond, what is known, what is read and what is heard, unfolds. When You show it, immediately it becomes apparent that this is what it really is, but until then we are not able to see it at all.

**Dadashri** : No, you cannot see that otherwise.

**Questioner** : The thing you said about, "It is Chandubhai's question; You are _Shuddhatma_! What have You got to do with that?" So after understanding the seapration on both the sides...

**Dadashri** : That separation itself is called Gnan. The Gnan that 'we' have given you is the same Gnan, but your previous habits are there which will not leave you, will they? You have become accustomed to them from the beginning, which contributes to those habits. This is not a problem because that, too, will happen verily because it is the _prakruti_ – the relative self. But it should remain in your awareness that such things should not happen.

## You cannot control the senses now!

**Questioner** : Dada, but what should one do to control his senses after becoming _Shuddhatma_?

**Dadashri** : Senses are not to be controlled. The one controlling the senses (ego) has vacated that seat; he has relinquished the charge. So then who would take charge? So it will empty when it wants to; it will stop when it empties on its own. There will be joy and grief; that is gross discharge effect ( _nokashaya_ ) but You 'know' them, do You not?

**Questioner** : Yes.

**Dadashri** : You know ( _jaano_ ) that Chandubhai laughed and that he is depressed. You do know all that, do You not? 'You' are separate, and he (Chandubhai) is separate. You have to suffer when you become one ( _tanmayakar_ ) with Chandubhai.

## The Self is the Self, no matter what state the non-Self is in

**Questioner** : How is it possible to talk about worldly matters while remaining as the Self? When You talked about this cloth, how was Your awareness ( _jagruti_ ) at that time?

**Dadashri** : That is natural for 'us'.

**Questioner** : How can we learn that same thing?

**Dadashri** : When the awareness, 'I am not speaking', remains, then it has become natural. Then it remains naturally. When the awareness, 'I am not the doer', remains, then it has become natural. When something is tasty, are You eating anything of that? Does the Self eat?

**Questioner** : No.

**Dadashri** : The eater (the non-Self) only eats. The 'seer' (the Self) keeps 'seeing' that. Do you have any difficulties arising through our science? Only the eater is eating, no? 'You' never ever eat do You?

**Questioner** : Such is the understanding, but I cannot be that way.

**Dadashri** : Did You eat the _maalpuda_ (pancake like sweet fried bread)? _Doodhpaak_ (sweet milk with nuts and rice)?

**Questioner** : Truly speaking, 'I' did not eat; Chandubhai did all the eating. This was not in the memory at the time of eating.

**Dadashri** : Just because you did not remember, does that mean that the Self ate? Under no circumstances does the Self becomes Chandubhai now. It will never happen, no matter what you do, or what you have done since Gnan. Even now if You make changes according to what I say, everything will fall in its place starting tomorrow. That is because Your affairs have been on the right track; you are settling with equanimity ( _sambhavey_ _nikaal_ ), You understand _vyavasthit_. Any mistake can be corrected.

**Questioner** : After attaining the vision of the Self, despite any kind of negative conduct, if the awareness of separation is there in that vision, then is there any binding of _karma_?

Dadashri: Whose conduct is it? Whose vision is it? If you say, 'It sticks to me, it sticks to me,' then it will stick to you. Otherwise, _mooah_ [Dadashri's term for the one who is dying] the elements have become separate. So now what is going to stick to You? When You know the Self as being _nirleyp_ (unsmearable), when You have experienced it so, then what will stick to it? And _pragyna_ (liberating energy of the Self) will immediately caution you if it does stick! If You be in the five Agans, there will be no _karma_ bondage and because bondage does not happen, the Self has become separate within.

## The knower is separate from the sufferer of pain or pleasure

## The Self is the Supreme Self and 'Chandubhai' the neighbor

**Questioner** : How can an analysis Chandubhai's ( _swabhaav_ ) nature be done?

**Dadashri** : What has Chandubhai and You have to do with each other? Have You not become a _Shuddhatma_ (pure Soul)? Chandubhai is Your neighbor, file number one. What have You got to do with him? If he has any claim against You, just tell him 'we have become separate now'. After two brothers divided their jointly owned farm between themselves, they will not pick anything from each other's farm; otherwise they will have a fight. Before the division, one would take anything. They would not fight as long as the property is in joint ownership. Problem is before the division; there is no problem after the division is made.

**Questioner** : They consider it a partnership before the division, do they not?

**Dadashri** : All this was done as a partnership. And I have placed a line of demarcation, so now the entire puzzle will be solved forever. But one will still say, 'I have a cough'. Hey you! You should know who has the cough.

**Questioner** : 'Knowing' will turn an uncomfortable or a painful event ( _ashata vedaniya_ ) into a comfortable or pain-free event ( _shata vedaniya_ ), will it not?

**Dadashri** : It will turn immediately. The attribute of suffering the painful ( _vedaniya_ ) is that of the neighbor (non-Self), not Yours. You are _nirleyp_ (an attribute of the Self which keeps it free from being smeared with any _karma_ particle), nothing happens to the _nirleyp._ When you have a cough, You should know that 'the coughing has started'; You should not feel (suffer) that, 'I have the cough'. You should know that the one next to You, is having a lot of cough. The wrong practice of infinite past lives has created this habit, and so You have to reverse this practice, do You not?

**Questioner** : The problem is not with the coughing; the problem is with the pain ( _dukha_ ) that occurs.

**Dadashri** : Once the separation has been made of what is Yours from the non-Self, then what is the problem with keeping it separate? Once you say that the 'intents of the mind-speech-body that tend to anoint and smear' ( _lepayamaan bhaavo_ ) are mine, then everything becomes restless within. But when You say, 'this is not mine', all of them ( _lepayamaan bhaavo_ ) will stop. Until you decide that this row of okra is not mine, the workers and the farmers will complain about whose it is. I am telling You this from my personal experience. So You have to say it two or three times, 'This is not mine anymore.' So then they ( _lepayamaan bhaavo_ ) will stop 'saying' anything. You have to do that, do You not? Do You think you will make progress without 'doing' anything? If there is just one row of okras, they will complain and fight if one happens to pick okra from it. If one is lying down with a shawl over him, and the _dhobi_ (laundry man) comes and tells him, 'Uncle, give this shawl back to me, it is not yours.' He will tell him, 'Go away, if you say too much, I will slap you.' That is because he is convinced in his mind that it is his shawl. So then the _dhobi_ , very politely tells him, 'But uncle, why don't you look at this other shawl? This is yours; that one is not!' and he says to him, 'Go away from here or I will hit you.' He says that in his mind as he is lying down, because he is convinced that it is his shawl. Then when the _dhobi_ insists, he will say, 'Why do you bring this new problem?' So when the _dhobi_ opens the shawl and shows him the name tag, he tells the _dhobi_ , 'Yes, you are right, that is mine. You can take this one away.' But until then he will fight, will he not? This is what fools do. He is convinced that it is his. But why is that? He recognizes it from that name tag. The _dhobi_ can make a mistake, can he not? When he sees the name tag, he realizes that he made a mistake. What can he do if they are identical? Do we not end up taking possession of it? Once we are asleep, are we likely to wake up?

## What wavers after Gnan?

**Questioner** : There is awareness after attaining the state of _Shuddhatma_ (pure Self). Then should the awareness not remain at the top? Why does it waver, come and go?

**Dadashri** : It does not waver, what wavers is a different thing and the awareness ( _jagruti_ ) is different. They both are separate indeed.

**Questioner** : How long is it going to be separate like this? Will they continue to be separate right till the end ( _moksha_ )?

**Dadashri** : It will be like that for as long as the files are still there. There is _antaratma_ (awakened Self, 'I am pure Soul') as long as there are files. When all the files are cleared, one becomes _Paramatma,_ the absolute Soul. The 'interim government' then becomes a full government. Therefore, it is these files that are giving the problems.

**Questioner** : Yes. Still all these files that are there, no matter how bad they are for me, there is no negative inner intent towards them. But when the file comes in front of me, instead of seeing him _nirdosh_ (fault-free; flawless; faultless) right away, I see him _nirdosh_ later on.

**Dadashri** : The awareness is there but due to past habits, You fall short.

**Questioner** : Dada, how can I fall short, now that You have placed me in the seat of the _Shuddhatma_?

**Dadashri** : When someone curses you, you stick your hand in it. You think that he cursed You. In reality, he is not cursing You. 'You' are in Your own place. Why are You going back there? What does Akram Vignan say? 'No one is at fault ( _doshit_ )!'

_Vyavasthit_ gives the inspiration and everything runs according to that inspiration. 'We' have to keep 'knowing' that. That is all; just 'know'. The movie does not get tired. The 'seer' does not get tired. There is no effect ( _asar_ ) in 'seeing'. No effect touches the One 'seeing and knowing'.

**Questioner** : Now Dada, I settled a file that arose, with equanimity. Thereafter, I keep 'seeing' the entanglements and knots that the _prakruti_ (non-Self complex) has. Does this process of persistent 'seeing' cleans up the _prakruti_?

**Dadashri** : Yes it does. It will become cleaner and clearer. Your energy ( _shakti_ ) to 'see' increases, the more You 'see'. And because the energy multiplies, the 'seeing' energy also multiplies. Bliss within increases. When a headache occurs, one says, 'I have a bad headache.' Hey you! Is it Your or is it Chandubhai's head that is hurting? 'You' are _Shuddhatma_ , are you not? One would say, 'Yes I am'. It is Chandubhai's pain. If You say, 'I have a headache', when it is 'Chandubhai' who is having the headache, then it will have an effect on you.

## The one doing the scolding is not the Self

**Questioner** : I have to scold people at work, I have to tell them off, but then I feel bad that 'why did I have to be instrumental ( _nimit_ ) in telling someone off like this?'

**Dadashri** : What it is is that You are not the one scolding, are You? Are You the one doing the scolding, or is it 'Chandubhai'?

**Questioner** : Chandubhai does it.

**Dadashri** : So then You are not to take the responsibility. 'You' have to tell 'Chandubhai', 'What will be your worth be if you scold too much? You will lose people's respect.'

**Questioner** : Many times I become so helpless against the forces of nature, that at that time no knowledge or such things becomes helpful, what should I do in those situations?

**Dadashri** : You have become _Shuddhatma_ and _Shuddhatma_ can never become helpless, can it? 'You' should not become 'Chandubhai'; if You do, then the responsibility falls on you. Have You decided who You really are? Chandubhai is your relative state. Hence You do not want to become that.

## Dada's vision of separation

**Questioner** : How should a _mahatma_ 's conduct be like towards another _mahatma_?

**Dadashri** : He should be the Self, and not allow _dehadhyas_ (I am Chandubhai) to arise.

**Questioner** : So the bottom line is that one should remain constantly in the Self.

**Dadashri** : What else is there? Even a donkey lives in the body, and so do you, so where is the difference?

**Questioner** : None. It all goes to waste.

**Questioner** : Dada. How do You keep 'seeing' your neighbor (the non-Self)?

**Dadashri** : Very well, I know he is a very good man, from a very young age. He is very good man, there is no interference from him, no problems from him, he does not need anything, there is no harassment from him. He has no problems whether you make him wake up early or late. When you tell him that _mahatmas_ are downstairs, he will get up, get ready and be downstairs within half an hour. Did you think that he gives Me problems? No, not only does he does not cause any difficulty for Me, but he never creates any difficulty for even Hiraba (Dadashri's wife).

**Questioner** : The demarcation between the Self and the non-Self ( _pudgal_ ) that is there for You, by what method can that happen for me?

**Dadashri** : It is separate indeed, is it not?

**Questioner** : It is, but the way you are able to see the Self and the _pudgal_ as separate, will I be able 'see' it that way?

**Dadashri** : You will be able to 'see' that way when that station comes, will You not?

**Questioner** : So, what is that method like?

**Dadashri** : There cannot be any method to it. This is the Self, and this is the non-Self _pudgal._ They are in proximity, but there is no joint relation ( _sang_ ) between them.

**Questioner** : But as you are sitting here right now and 'Dada Bhagwan' is seeing 'Dada', how and by what method is He 'seeing' you?

**Dadashri** : _Swa_ - _par drashti_ ( _swa_ -Self, _par-_ non-Self); through the vision of the Self and through the vision of the non-Self. The vision of the Self that I have given to You is separate, and the vision of non-Self is separate. The vision through which you are seeing this room and everything is separate; it is vision of the non-Self, whereas the other is of the Self. The vision of the Self is separate. It can see both, the non-Self and the Self. 'You' too understand that this is of the Self and this is of the non-Self. But You do not have to dwell deeper into it. But You do understand that this is all separate, do you not? Would You not know that this is of the non-Self?

**Questioner** : Yes, I would know that.

**Dadashri** : That is the very vision ( _drashti_ ). 'Not this' 'I am this'... 'Not this' 'I am this'... So reinforce all this. If all these roads are weak and then you extend them, they all remain weak. But this road which is strong, let it become strong as far as You can 'see' it.All this relative is happening according to the rule of _vyavasthit._ 'You' are not to enter into such work. Otherwise You will become the interfering one like you used to be. There is no need for any interference ( _dakhal_ ) there. You remain in the Agna because going out of the Agna is a tremendous liability. It is the old habit that is creating the entire problem. Otherwise, one has to just be in the five Agnas. Do not enter into any other interference. Would you not know that this is _par_ (of the non-Self) and not the _swa_ (of the Self)?

**Questioner** : Yes Dada; that is easily known.

**Dadashri** : People of the world cannot understand this.

Who slipped in awareness?

**Questioner** : Dada has given us the knowledge of separation ( _bhedagnan_ ), and separated us. I am separate, exactly separate. But Chandubhai still remains, does he not? However many years there are, he is going to remain, will he not? Will Chandubhai the _pudgal,_ not remain?

**Dadashri** : Of course it will; that _pudgal_ will still remain. 'You' have surrendered the _pudgal_. Now it is dependent on _vyavasthit_. It will continue to revolve according to _vyavasthit_ ; You just have to keep 'seeing' what the _pudgal_ is doing. This is your _purushartha_.

**Questioner** : I should keep 'seeing', but should I occasionally caution the _pudgal_ or not?

**Dadashri** : Yes, You should caution it. But You should do that when it enters into a slipped state of awareness ( _gaflat_ ), slipping from the vision of the Self to the vision of the self only.

**Questioner** : Yes, he is being careless all the time.

**Dadashri** : No; it is the unfolding effect of _karma_ that makes one do all this. But You should go around with 'these eyes' open and be vigilant, that is all. There should not be any misuse of it; otherwise that awareness of 'seeing' will become dim. 'You' do not have to do anything if You keep 'seeing'. The One who is in Agnas is 'seeing' Chandubhai for sure, so You don't have to say anything to Him. But if he is not 'seeing', then You have to caution him.

**Questioner** : The awareness You talked about, about remaining in the awareness and heeding caution ( _chetata rahevoo_ ); that is what we are discussing here.

**Dadashri** : Yes, that is correct. This talk is not for the One who can remain _gnata_ - _drashta_ (knower-seer). And when one cannot maintain awareness, You are tell him, 'go about with open eyes and do not lose awareness ( _gaafel_ )'. _Vyavasthit_ is going to run everything, but there should not be any laxity of awareness. And the one who remains the knower-seer, for him there is no issue of slipping from awareness, there is nothing else. 'You' are the knower-seer of what Chandubhai is doing.

**Questioner** : So Dada, in any situation, if I become 'Chandubhai' instead of remaining the knower of Chandubhai; is that being _gaafel_ (losing awareness)?

**Dadashri** : Yes, that is considered as being _gaafel_. It is _gaafel_ to become Chandubhai in any situation, instead of remaining as the knower of Chandubhai. What 'we' are saying is, at that time go about with Your eyes open ( _jagruti_ ).

**Questioner** : Yes, but sometimes 'the eyes' open after it happens. 'Dada' makes us aware that this has happened; now start 'seeing' it.

**Dadashri** : Yes. Therefore, in that situation keep Your 'eyes' open. You have to maintain the awareness. That happens, does it not? You do not have to come to Dada, do You? The science is doing all that. You do not have anything to worry about. The whole thing is happening spontaneously and naturally. It also cautions you. People say that they cannot experience the Self. Hey You, does it not caution you the whole day long from within? Yes, then that is the Self itself, who else would come to do so? Is there some outsider that has snuck inside?

## Do mahatmas charge karma after Gnan?

## Now attachment-abhorrence are discharge

**Questioner** : Many a times when 'his' intense desires are not fulfilled, he loses his temper and gets upset with everyone and he cannot remain in Gnan. So how can one settle all this and remain as knower-seer?

**Dadashri** : Whatever situation one is in, One can remain the knower-seer if that is the decision. It is possible to remain knower-seer to a certain point in a situation, if one wants to. If the adversity in the situation is beyond usual limits, if there is too much pressure, then the knower-seer state will not remain. Even when the awareness leaves, then it should be, 'the awareness has gone, and I am knowing that.' But one should remain the 'knower', then all that rest will be destroyed; it will become insipid. The essence will go away; it will burn away. Tell me, how is Your interaction with people? Do You experience _raag_ - _dwesh_? Not at all?

**Questioner** : No, that does not happen. It happens with a file which is very 'sticky', but very little with other people.

**Dadashri** : You do not have any _raag_ - _dwesh_ because You have attained the Self, but you do have discharging _raag_ - _dwesh_ , otherwise known as _nikali_ (that which is to be discharged). Now, that which is _nikali_ , is not considered as _raag_ - _dwesh_. _Raag_ - _dwesh_ which is in a form of a seed for the next life, we call that as _raag_ - _dwesh_ ; a charge _raag_ - _dwesh_. That other, is just anger ( _gusso_ ), and it is just an attribute of the _pudgal_ (non-Self complex). Hence, it is of no consequence.

**Questioner** : So it is anger ( _gusso_ ) of, 'He did this to me, so I will do the same to him.' Does that create a charge or not?

**Dadashri** : If Chandubhai is becoming angry like that, and if You do not like what he is doing, then that is a discharge. 'You' are not liable if You do not like what he is doing.

**Questioner** : Dada, when someone who does not have Gnan ( _agnani_ ) will not like it...

**Dadashri** : He is still liable, because the _agnani_ has the belief of 'I am Chandubhai'. He is liable even if he does not like what he is doing. If there is no like ( _ruchi_ ), then there is dislike ( _aruchi_ ). He has at least something. And You do not have dislike ( _aruchi_ ); You have, 'this should not be so.' If an _agnani_ (one without Gnan) does not have a liking, then he has dislike for sure. Hence he is trapped in either of the two.

**Questioner** : Someone curses me, then I feel that I want to curse him back, and I even do so, but then later I 'see' that this was what arose in the mind of Chandubhai, and this is what Chandubhai did, and I 'see' all of that in Chandubhai. What is all this?

**Dadashri** : If You keep 'seeing' all that has happened, then You are free. You do not have any liability. The liability is Chandubhai's. When that person scolds you (Chandubhai), 'What a useless worthless person you are! Why do you keep talking rubbish?' he may even slap you. So he does have a liability. So then You have to tell Chandubhai, 'Why did you do _atikraman_ (aggression); do _pratikraman_ for it now.'

**Questioner** : But suppose Chandubhai does not do _pratikraman_ ; then he does charge _karma_ , does he not?

**Dadashri** : No, not even then. _Karma_ does not get charged.

**Questioner** : But should he do _pratikraman_?

**Dadashri** : All the files will be cleaned if he does _pratikraman_. The _file_ is put away having been cleaned through Gnan. Whatever clothes are washed; are put away. Then they will all go for 'ironing'.

**Questioner** : Sometimes a desire is not fulfilled. The root of such a desire is so deep that it keeps bothering me, despite having the Gnan. So how can I get rid of that desire from the root?

**Dadashri** : That is why 'we' say that You will have one or two more lives. All those desires that have not been fulfilled, they will be fulfilled during that time. _Moksha_ will not happen until all desires are fulfilled. Each and every desire has to be fulfilled. If the desire is very deep, it will come back in the next life, but it will be fulfilled.

**Questioner** : So, starting from today, I should start fulfilling all my desires?

**Dadashri** : Do that. When have I said 'no' to you?

**Questioner** : My desire can be fulfilled only if this file number two fulfils it, but he does not. I am not asking for a palace. I have been asking for just a small thing for fifteen years and yet he does not give it to me.

**Dadashri** : That is because your _prarabdha_ (effect of _karma_ ) is not smooth and easy. When your _prarabdha_ is ready, then people will come and give it to you even if you say no to them. Your obstacles ( _antarai_ ) have not been destroyed yet. This is an obstacle. 'You' have to destroy that obstacle now. Now that the discussion about it came out in My presence, the obstacles are on their way to being destroyed.

## Chandubhai in remorse and You in Gnan

Up until now you were saying that 'it happened to me', and after Gnan You are not in agreement with him, when he says, 'it happened to me.' Hey, how can it happen to You? Dada has separated You! Have You not been separated?

**Questioner** : I am separate for sure.

**Dadashri** : Yes, so should You not remain separate? The whole world is suffering psychologically by saying, 'it is happening to me.' One will say, 'my own brother-in-law cursed me out!'

It is also wrong not to be remorseful for making a mistake. There should be remorse for sure. 'You' have to continue to know that Chandubhai is being very remorseful. 'You' have to pat him on his shoulder and comfort him. If one takes the support of this and stops being remorseful, then it will remain unfinished. Remorse should be there for sure. So when he is being remorseful, You should tell him (Chandubhai), 'now do _pratikraman_ for your mistake and do _pratyakhyan_ (firm resolve never to repeat the mistake and asking for the energy from the pure Self of the person hurt). 'I' am by your side, am I not? Come on, ask for the energy.' This is Akram Vignan.

## In the eyes of people, are you _Shuddhatma_ or Chandubhai?

When will people come to You? When your conduct ( _vartan_ ) is good. When will they know that you have become _Shuddhatma_? Right now, they only know you as Chandubhai, do they not? And You know that 'I am _Shuddhatma_ '. Your knowledge is different from their knowledge; is it not different?

**Questioner** : Yes.

**Dadashri** : So people do not know that you have become a _Shuddhatma_ (pure Soul), do they? When is one considered to have become a _Shuddhatma_? When the external conduct turns around, that is when they will know. So people do not know that, but it will be different when they do.

Would anyone become your disciple right now? No. Why not? They see you saying and doing wrong things, do they not?

**Questioner** : Yes, they will see the conduct.

**Dadashri** : The world is such that it will become your disciple when you do something for it and make it happy. Even if you were to explain him the Gnan, he will know that you are using Dada's words. When You remain in the _Shuddhatma_ _swaroop_ – when You remain as the Self and then you talk, and when they 'feel' the bliss; that is when You will become like that! But until then You do not have a disciple, do you? So You have to first make Chandubhai Your disciple. Do You understand this?

So You found a great disciple in Chandubhai. Tell him, 'Hey, do this and do that...' 'You' should caution him, make him understand, show him his mistakes, make him do _pratikraman_. This will be more convenient. Even if I were to tell them, how many people would listen to Me? And if You were to tell him, Chandubhai will listen to You.

One has to become his own disciple. Make Chandubhai Your disciple. Who else would become Your disciple? Will anyone become Chandubhai's disciple?

**Questioner** : No, no one would. Dada, what You are saying is absolutely wonderful.

**Dadashri** : Just as this man's file number one becomes his disciple, 'Chandubhai' becomes 'Your' disciple. Everyone becomes 'Our' disciple. So when You become like 'Me', people will become Your disciples.

# [1.3] Process of conversing to experience separation

## Understand the process of separation

**Questioner** : In _satsang_ You emphasize the process of separating.

**Dadashri** : That is the main thing, is it not?

**Questioner** : When the mind shows something, I should tell the mind 'I am not going to listen to you.' The mind then becomes separate when I talk with it.

**Dadashri** : Yes, it will separate for sure. And the body too will also separate when You call it 'file number one'.

**Questioner** : This process of separation of Yours, what is it like? Do You continually 'see' the exact separation, naturally?

**Dadashri** : Yes, that is how it is 'seen'; this part is _pudgal_ (non-Self complex) and this is _chetan_ (the Self). That is how 'I' see all that; such is the awareness. When you want to cook squash, then there is the awareness that the skin and top stem have to be cut and discarded ( _jada_ ) and then the useful fruit ( _chetan_ ) has to be sliced, cut and cooked in no time! That is how it is for 'us'! That is how _jada_ (matter) and _chetan_ (Self) constantly remain separate for 'us'.

To remain _gnata_ - _drashta_ (knower-seer) is to continue to know ( _jaanya karo_ ) what Chandubhai is doing. If Chandubhai slaps his son and quarrles with him, You have to know that Chandubhai is still causing quarrels. 'You' can tell him, 'why do you quarrel unnecessarily?' Yes, You can tell him. And sometimes You even have to scold him, 'Chandubhai, why do you do this? You have been this way from the day you got married. Now shape up dear man, you have met Dada now.'

**Questioner** : Yes, and after You have made the separation, Chandubhai answers back and says 'no I am going to remain this way only'.

**Dadashri** : No, he will not say that anymore. He will not say a word.

## The process of talking to the self

**Questioner** : That is true. You say that, 'We are the knower-seer of speech, 'we' continue to 'see' what comes out in the speech', so is there actually such a conversation going on within; is it something like that?

**Dadashri** : Learn to 'see' like that. Learn to 'see' Chandubhai.

**Questioner** : Yes, but learning to 'see' means to converse in this way within, is it not?

**Dadashri** : If You converse with him, You will learn to 'see' more. Your interest will increase and this will create the exactness of remaining separate. And You are separate indeed.

**Questioner** : Yes, by conversing in this way, the interaction of separation begins, in a real way.

**Dadashri** : By making fun of him, and joking with him, by 'seeing'; the separation happens. I even say, 'How are you! Are you fine? Ambalal you are in great spirit today!' So in this way, 'we' remain fresh, no? 'We' remain fresh all day, and he does all the work without any complaints.

**Questioner** : Many years ago You had spoken about talking to the self, which will give rise to a lot of energy ( _shakti_ ). Energy will increase tremendously. This process of conversing with the non-Self is the highest thing! This is the basis of the process of separation in our Akram science.

**Dadashri** : If You tell him, 'it is not good for you to drink too much tea', he will reply, 'No, I do want to drink.' 'Then, go ahead and drink'. Converse with him like that and take advantage of the separation.

**Questioner** : That is correct. And by conversing like this, the external discharge will happen automatically. This is what is called _upayoga_ (focused awareness), no? Even when there is total effect of weakness etc., from the bad health externally, yet the inner conversation continues for sure.

**Dadashri** : It will remain completely separate.

**Questioner** : What do You say at that time?

**Dadashri** : Everything. The conversation is all as it is.

**Questioner** : So do You ask within? Do You ask things like 'how is your health' etc.?

**Dadashri** : If this gentleman says, 'Dada, now walk around in this room. So he (Ambalal) will walk and when he does, 'I' 'see' him, 'O ho ho! see what you look like! What has become of you? It makes me laugh when I see you walking in this state and thinking what has become of you! The person who would not let anyone touch him – just look at him now! He has to hold someone's hand just to walk!'

**Questioner** : So the one who would not let anyone touch him, that is you. The one who holds someone's hand and walks, is the same you, the whole thing separates. There is no ego left in this. No ownership remains. The whole thing goes away!

**Dadashri** : 'We' give him the freedom to do whatever he wants to, but 'we' have fun with him that, 'O ho ho! Nothing touches you, does it? It seem like you have become God!' so then he will say, 'No, You are God, not I.'

## 'I' too used to converse with Patel

Even now, ignorance (of the Self) sides with this (Ambalal; non-Self). If You (the awakened Self) talk to it (Chandubhai), everything will fall into palce. Tell him he can go whichever way he wants to go, but otherwise what was wrong in staying at home?

**Questioner** : That is right.

**Dadashri** : Your plan, to attain _moksha_ , is vast and lofty. Don't You want to progress in Gnan in My presence? Otherwise, one would start talking with file number one upon hearing this.

'I' used to talk a lot with A. M. Patel—the self. 'I' would engage in conversations that were enjoyable to 'me'. Even, I would talk with this seventy-six year old Ambalalbhai! I would tell him, 'Have you become any wiser in these seventy-six years? It is rather through being molded by life events ( _ghadatar_ ) that the wisdom has come."

**Questioner** : Since when were you conversing with him?

**Dadashri** : After Self-realization. How could I converse before Gnan? I started to converse after I realized that 'I am separate'.

Recalling the scene where he was sitting at the time of wedding, I would tell Ambalal, 'Wow Ambalal! How you sat down to get married! Then when your _paghadi_ (elaborate turban) shifted a bit, you had a thought of becoming a widower.' I would tell him that too. I can see all that; how the turban had shifted and what the wedding scene under the canopy was. It is visible the moment the thought about it arises. 'We' (The Gnani and the Lord within) would converse thus, and 'we' would experience bliss. Telling him such things would cheer him up.

## About 'our' experience

I would not travel in first class, because other passengers would come after me. I do not know how to tell a lie. I do not know how to 'polish' things up. If they asked me my address, I would give it to them and then they would come to my home. Hence there is infinite latching on. Instead, the third class passengers, who are like my brothers, are better. When someone going up and down the train, accidently kicks me I will know what kind of _kashaya_ (anger-pride-deceit-greed) is within. One will know what kind of weaknesses are there within when he gets kicked. So that is how the weaknesses will go away.

So when the legs hurt, 'I' will say, 'Ambalalbhai, the legs are hurting you a lot, are they not? You are tired. The legs are hurting because you have been sitting cramped in the same place.' So then 'I' take him to the bathroom and pat him on his shoulder, 'Why are you being stressed? 'I' _Shuddhatma_ Bhagwan, am with you, am I not?' So then he will settle down.

Pat him on his shoulders when he comes into difficulty. Before there was one; now there are two. Before there was no support at all. One was looking for support and consolation on his own. Now from one, there are two.

Have you ever done this before or not?

**Questioner** : Yes I have.

**Dadashri** : You feel different at that time, do you not? You have to talk as if You are the emperor of the universe. Everything that I am telling You is from My own experience.

## Dada talks with everyone and everything

This man keeps asking me if he can get me some pistachios? Some mangos? He will make the pistachio 'get up' from where it is sitting comfortably! Even this man asks me, 'Can I get you this, can I get you mango?' Why don't you let the pistachios be where they are?

**Queastioner** : Dada, I had heard You mention that you used to keep a tin suitcase. You had told that suitcase 'you can go whenever you want.' You used to converse with it too.

**Dadashri** : 'You are free to leave whenever you choose; it is not 'our' wish that you do, but 'we' are going to sleep!'

**Questioner** : 'But if you go, I don't care.'

**Dadashri** : No. 'We' would not say, 'I do not care if you leave.' 'We' would say, 'You are free to leave whenever you chose; 'we' wish you do not'. If 'we' said, 'I do not care if you did', then it would get upset and leave. You should just say, 'we wish you do not', and then 'you may leave whenever you chose'.

**Questioner** : You whispered in the 'ear' of the ship.

**Dadashri** : Yes, 'we' wishpered in its ear, 'Sink when you wish to; but 'we' wish that you do not. Why would 'we' do this _puja_ (ceremonial blessing during ship launching) if 'our' wish was for you to sink?' We would do the _puja_ and let it set sail.

**Questioner** : So the beauty is that You talk with everything; with the ship, the bag, the tea, the pistas; the talk is with their existence.

**Dadashri** : Yes, that is the way it is. All these people tell their intellect ( _buddhi_ ), 'come tomorrow for your food' so today it will not bother them. But it will continue to bother them until they tell her that. That is how it is within. And this _chit_ has become restless and unsteady going in many directions ( _chanchad_ ), it has mixed components of the self and the Self ( _mishrachetanta_ ) and it has its own energy-power. If You talk with it not to go there, it will. It is bound to do what its role is.

If 'we' keep our suitcase like this and go to sleep on the train, people will tell me, 'people steal suitcases here'. Hey! I know that, but what is the benefit in knowing that? It will only keep you awake the whole night. And your suitcase will be stolen when you nod off to sleep. Now forget about it and go to sleep peacefully. If it is meant to be stolen, is the one stealing going to wait? Instead, go to sleep. Tell the suitcase, 'Leave whenever you want to; but 'we' do not wish you do that', but it will still be there in the morning.

**Questioner** : So did You also tell the shoes the same thing?

**Dadashri** : Yes, even to the shoes, 'Leave whenever you want to'. Why would I worry about you all night? Let me sleep in peace! 'We' know how they come and go from the start and so 'we' tell you that.

**Questioner** : What is the reason behind saying all that?

**Dadashri** : It gives exact results that way; that is why.

**Questioner** : But no one would think about talking in this way. How did You discover this?

**Dadashri** : How can one think this way until the 'intellectual-know-how' and the 'Gnan-know-how' ( _gnankada_ ) blossoms within? This is the art of intellect ( _buddhikada_ ). People do not have such a capability, do they?Now, if one were to stay with 'us' and learn some of it, then it will start developing in him and after some time, it will blossom. Otherwise he has no art of intellect, does he? People will say, 'His brain tonic is very strong!' Hey you! It is not that; more than me, the lawyers have greater brains! This is our art of intellect.

## The Gnani converses with udayakarma

## The Gnani's likes and dislikes

**Questioner** : Do you ever have anything such as 'likes' and 'dislikes'?

**Dadashri** : Yes. If I have to sit here on the floor, then the _udayakarma_ (unfolding effect of _karma_ ) will say, 'I dislike it.' Then 'we' will say ''we' like it!' The _udaya_ _karma_ will say so, not in everything, but it will say so in matters that have not been cleared yet. It will not 'speak' in what has already been cleared. When it 'says' anything negative within, You should say it as positive. If it says that it feels the weakness, You should tell him 'say, 'I am is full of infinite energy''. One has to do plus-minus, does he not?

## Complete separation in the mirror

**Questioner** : How can one become free of all the dependency and despondency?

**Dadashri** : Chandubhai has the dependency. Not You, do You? You should tell Chandubhai, 'Do not worry, I am by your side. Do not depend on others; depend on Me'. That is what You should say. That is how the awareness of separation is, but if You do not know how to say this, then take him to the mirror and converse with him. Would You be able to 'see' that or not? Do you like this process? Yes, if someone asks us, 'we' will show him the same method that 'we' use.

**Questioner** : We would do the same.

**Dadashri** : If You want to do that, then here is the mirror. Who is telling You not to? Tell him 'I' am with you and Dada is looking over us. So tell me, where is the problem?' and he will become silent. 'We' used to do this. The whole night would pass like this even if the legs were hurting. 'We' would converse with him and all 'we' would say is, ''We' are by your side.' Otherwise, there is no one to console him, is there? If someone incurs a great loss and someone tells him, 'I am by your side', that poor man will be able to sleep at night. But there is no one to tell him so, is there?

## Knowing one's self from a young age

You do not have any anger-pride-deceit-greed in You after having attained this Gnan. There is nothing left within You anymore. You have completely become a _Shuddhatma_. Now, the mind-intellect-chit-ego is of Chandubhai and You have nothing to do with them. You have to 'see' whatever restlessness occurs in his mind, and whatever tantrums he throws. All that is going on within Chandubhai.

'Your' dwellings have now changed. 'Your' section is that of _Shuddhatma_ and this is Chandubhai's section. 'You' have to maintain awareness ( _dhyan_ ) in both sections. The mind belongs to Chandubhai's section, now You do not have to have to use the mind. Whatever temper tantrums and arguments the mind is doing, You just have to 'see' all that. If the mind is bad and Chandubhai gets fed up of it, then pat him on his shoulder and tell him, 'Do not worry, I am with you.' You will not find anyone in this world to pat your shoulder for you, You have to do it yourself; You are _Shuddhatma_ _Bhagwan_. There was no one to console and comfort you, before was there? There was no one to pat your shoulder, was there?

This awareness of Yours is considered pure ( _shuddha_ ). It is _shuddha upayoga._ When no one is around, tell him, 'Chandubhai you did well today.' And if he gets irritated the next day, then tell him, 'It is not good to get irritated like this, so do _pratikraman_ for it.' Does that happen or not? That is all You have to do. Would You know file number one or not?

**Questioner** : Yes, that is correct. After coming to Dada, I know this neighbor very well.

**Dadashri** : Do You know him from when he was young? Do You know about his life from the beginning?

**Questioner** : Yes, Dada.

**Dadashri** : Then You have to tell him, 'This will not do anymore. So far you got away with it because I was asleep, but now I am awake (aware). I do not want to punish you for your past but now please respect My boundry now that I am awake.' So then he will respect your boundry very well. What he needs is someone to tell him. Because in our presence, they have all eaten in our home, so if they don't side with us, who else will they side with?

## And the Self moves away from the _prakruti_

Everyday, You should look in the mirror and talk to Chandubhai, so that the Self starts becoming separate (from the non-Self; Chandubhai). And your work is done as the Self starts loosening away from the _prakruti_. A cork will be of no use if it loosens up in a bottle, would it? And it is good if the Self becomes loose in the _prakruti_. It (the bond or association) will loosen up even if you put it in. The Self will come loose (separates) when you look in the mirror and talk to him. Then it will not tighten up even if you tried. It has become loose. The Self that has been given to you is pure Self ( _Shuddhatma_ ), no impurity comes away with it as it become loose. What you have been given is the _Shuddhatma_ and that is why it is able to become free.

You will get answers if You ask. Why don't You talk to Chandubhai? Have You ever talked to him? Ask Chandubhai, 'Do you now have any intent of violence of any kind?' He will say, 'No'. Will he not answer if You ask him? If You ask him, 'Do you want to take something away from someone?' He will say, 'No', will he not?

**Questioner** : Yes he will.

**Dadashri** : That is because it is a _mishrachetan_ (mixture of the Self and the non-Self), is it not? Yes, the Self does not have to do anything. This _mischrachetan_ functions through mere presence of the Self.

## Pat your own back

At times when he is a little depressed, pat his back. He has not found anyone to do so. How troubled the poor man becomes! If he incurs a loss of five hundred thousand rupees and if he tells his father about it, the father will say, 'You lost five hundred thousand!? You are worthless.' Hey you fool, he came to you for sympathy and you made such a fuss? He will tell his wife expecting some sympathy from her. She is 'my better half, so she will sympathise with me', he thinks. But she will tell him, 'I used to tell you to go sit at the shop everyday and that this accountant was not good.' Right now, I need some sympathy, so give me some. So now You should pat him on his shoulders and sympathise with him and tell him that You are with him. No one sympathises like that. Try doing this some time! Then watch Chandubhai run! He has never found anyone in this world to pat his back. 'We' have given you all the experiences 'we' have gained from all our experiments. 'We' have given you all the tools 'we' have used.

'We' used to stand in front of the mirror and pat Ambalal on his back, and that is why he became wise at age seventy-six. I will be seventy six... I have not spent all those years without doing anything! Will anyone pat the back in this way? Does anyone do that at your home? No one would. Everyone at home is egoistic. They will tell you, 'I told you from the start not to do it. You fool! You eventually ended up doing the wrong thing.' Hey you! That is not what I came to you for. Right now I feel like committing suicide and I have come to you for some consolation.' But what can one do, they will not let you be in peace?

## Converse with the apathetic mind

**Questioner** : I feel like I want to write a little bit. I want to do some work for the institution. Then I sit down with a book, but after a while I do not feel like doing anything in that book and so I take either Aptasutra or some other Dada's book and read. I tell myself that I will do that tomorrow, and so days go by without me doing anything. I do start initially, but then I do not feel like doing it and then I let go of it. Therefore, my mind has become so apathetic that you cannot even imagine.

**Dadashri** : No, but You should tell Chandubhai something; You should converse with him a little. You should talk to him so that he turns in that direction a little. You have to maintain separation. There is no problem in you telling him things if you remain separate. He will gradually settle down as you remain separate and then converse. At least improve this much. Keep a practice of conversing with Chandubhai. If it can be done tomorrow, tell Chandubhai, 'Why don't you do that today, instead of tomorrow?' So then what happens is that it will continue; he needs that. In reality, whatever is mandatory, he has no choice but do it, does he not? That time is going to be spent there only; he is going to do what has already been prearranged for him. He has to do that, does he not? If he gets late for dinner, tell him, 'Why don't you eat on time, what is the problem?'

Go and try it out, talk to Chandubhai! Then you will not feel that you still have that problem, because You have become separate. Now that You are separate, You have to tell him, it is Your obligation to caution him. Are You not obligated to do that as a neighbor? What do You think? That is the filled stock of _karma_ , so is it not bound to discharge? If it does not, then it will stink. It is better if it discharges when you are young and healthy, instead of when you are old. You do not have any problem with that, do you? You are healthy, are you not? We would know if you tell us, would we not? But do not do that to the body. Tell the body, 'Do not worry, it is not your fault. I know whose fault it was?' It was the fault of the ego. The ego created all this stock of _karma_.

## This is how You tackle the prakruti

**Questioner** : Now, one does not have to do anything. The Agna that You have given, states that one does not have to do anything, that awareness is to be maintained. When I feel like reading or doing something else, even then this awareness remains that it is my unfolding _karma_ and that I have to discharge it.

**Dadashri** : You have to interact with the world as Chandubhai, with the awareness that You are not the doer and it is Chandubhai who is doing all that. You do not have to say, 'It is unfolding of _karma_ ' ( _udaykarma_ ). Ask him in the morning, 'How are you Chandubhai? Are you feeling good or not?', because he is Your neighbor, is he not? What is wrong in that? Try and get something done that way with the _prakruti_ and see what wonderful work he does!

**Questioner** : There is no need to fight with it.

**Dadashri** : No, You should know how to adjust with the _prakruti_. The _prakruti_ is wonderful by nature.

_Prakruti_ is wonderful, but we complicate it. So you can also say, 'You are now the father of a son and a daughter. You are something else! You are a big lawyer.' There is nothing wrong in conversing like that with it ( _prakruti_ ). Close your room door and converse with him. When can you call it as 'conversing'? It is when the ears can hear You. Others around you do not hear it but your ears do. But You do not converse like that, do You? 'You' have become separate and that is why You can have the ongoing experience of the separation. Being a neighbor, what is the problem with asking him, 'How are you?' You are still going to drink the tea; and is that Your tea? It is his tea, not Yours, is it? Say to him, 'Drink a cup and half of tea.' Tell the other person, 'Give Chandubhai some tea.' This path is such that you can eat, drink and have fun and go to _moksha_.

## Experience of total separation

**Questioner** : So, if I am sitting around alone in the evening, I should continuing 'seeing' Chandubhai...

**Dadashri** : 'See' what his mind ( _mana_ ) is doing, what his intellect ( _buddhi_ ) is doing, what his ego ( _ahamkar_ ) is doing; continuing 'seeing' all those. And when all these are quiet, Chandubhai will be seen separate. You continue 'seeing' that. Then You can say, 'Chandubhai, you are a very good man. You look very wise.' You can say all that. When You talk to him like that, You will experience that there is one hundred percent separation.

**Questioner** : So, at the end of the day, we should sit and 'see' Chandubhai and recall everything and tell him that this is what he did this morning, he became angry in the morning...

**Dadashri** : Yes, You can say all that.

**Questioner** : Is that considered 'seeing' ( _joyoon_ )? It is considered 'seeing' the _prakruti_ , is it not?

**Dadashri:** Yes, after 'seeing' You should tell him 'It does not look good that you did that. Now you are old. Do you want to go to _moksha_?'

**Questioner:** Yes. So if he got angry, I can tell him off and say 'what are you doing? After meeting Dada, if you do this, it does not look good!'

**Dadashri** : Yes, that is it. 'This does not look good for you'. Yes, you can tell him off...tell him off...

**Questioner** : Is all that considered as 'seeing'?

**Dadashri** : Yes, that is called 'seeing'.

**Questioner** : Is that considered an experience ( _anubhav_ )?

**Dadashri** : Yes, that is called experience. You should say a few things to him like, 'now you are old. You should think about these things. Just because your mother-in-law is not here, you are showing off!' You should say this. What do you do when the mother-in-law tells you off? 'Just because there is no one around to tell you off, you are doing this?' Tell him as much as You can. Are you going to spoil your reputation in doing that? Your reputation is lost anyway, no? Because your reputation is gone, you have met Dada. And see all those people with reputation, see how they are walking about. They have worries on the inside but they do not want to let go of their reputation on the outside.

## How fast will a sick person run upon seeing a tiger?

The whole world is engrossed in _avastha_ (situation of mind speech and body). What is the understanding of the one who is _agnani_ (without Gnan)? He is engrossed in _avastha_. Whatever situation arises, he is engrossed in only that. If he falls into poverty, then he is engrossed in poverty. If he becomes prosperous, he will be engrossed in the prosperity. He will walk around like a stud-bull. Meaning he walks around in complete engrossment. If he gets a fever, he will say 'what can I do? I am not able to walk. What can I do?'

You foolish man by needlessly saying, 'I cannot walk', you become even weaker. One becomes what he says. The attribute of the Self is that whatever one says, he will become like that. And he says, 'I cannot walk, my legs don't work at all.' So the legs know that 'he is saying we do not work. No one is going to tell us off!' 'You' should say, 'Why won't you walk! Walk!' If You let them have it, they will walk on their own. Why wouldn't they walk? We have a contract with them. That contract has not been fulfilled. You feed file number one, You give it water, so why would it not work? What kind of nonsense talk is this? You give it a nice cup of tea with tea spices, You give it bread fried in ghee; even though You feed all these things to it, it is saying 'the legs are not working!' So then You have to say, 'walk! Walk or else!' If a tiger were to chase him, then would the legs work or not? So instead of being chased by a real tiger, just think that you are being chased by it anyway! The worldly life ( _sansaar_ ) is a tiger anyway, is it not? A tiger would eat you up just once, but this worldly life will eat you life after life.

You will have to go according to all the contracts you have made, no? They will have to walk. You have to keep 'seeing'. If I don't fulfill My obligations, then tell Me, but you have to walk. I will 'see'.

## Awareness against mistakes

'Shoot on sight'. The moment You 'see' the mistake being made, tell him, 'Come on, Chandubhai, do _pratikraman_ '. Now You have to take Chandubhai to task. Then Chandubhai will tell You, 'I am not able to do it because of my old age.' Then You have to say, 'We will give you the _shakti_ '. So he will say, 'Then give it to me'. Then You have to tell him, 'Now say, 'I am full of infinite energy ( _shakti_ ).' When You make him say it, the _shakti_ from You, the Self will flow towards him. If he is overcome with mental or physical exhaustion, You will have to do it. He is Your neighbor! It is _nischetan-chetan_ (discharging self). Except for the Self, the rest of the five elements do not have any life energy ( _chetan_ ). The one who is starting to see his own faults should understand that an end to all entanglement is near.

The one who wants to maintain the ultimate applied awareness ( _upayoga_ ) should continue 'knowing' what Chandubhai is doing at this very moment, whether he is a little anxious, or how much tension he has or the stress is decreasing; to continue 'seeing' all that is the ultimate _upayoga_.

**Questioner** : What if I am experiencing tension or some kind of suffering of pain?

**Dadashri** : You are not to experience the suffering of pain, You have to 'see' that experience, 'Oh ho ho! Chandubhai, you are experiencing so much tension? Do not worry I am with you, go ahead and have some tea.' You should converse with him like that.

**Questioner** : To converse with Chandubhai like that, is that considered applied awareness ( _upayoga_ )?

**Dadashri** : That is the ultimate _upayoga_. You should constantly 'see' Chandubhai; see if his tension has increased or decreased. Then You should tell him, 'Do not worry, 'I' am with you.' That is all You have to do. That is the _upayoga_ You have to maintain. Whatever tension there is, it is Chandubhai's, is it not? It is not Yours, is it?

**Questioner** : That is correct.

**Dadashri** : When a tax officer comes, he will only get upset with you if there is a pending account of _karma_ , right? But what is it to You, now that he has come? It is Chandubhai's problem.

Even after attaining this Gnan, some say, 'I have a suffocating feeling in the heart'. He says what has been strongly established. Such mistakes are a result of his deeply harbored acquired wrong beliefs ( _gruhit_ _mithyatva_ ). People tell you, 'You are Chandubhai. You got married. You passed your exams...' People told us all these things and we hoarded it in 'storage'. Now that account is unfolding (discharging). You (the Self) have to say, 'I know Chandubhai very well'. When you say 'Know him well' means that Chandubhai will understand who is saying that. Every detail should fall into place.

How can there be suffocation in the heart, after You become the _Shuddhatma_? How can it happen to You? If it does, it is happening to him, the neighbor. But You have to practice saying, 'Come here Chandubhai, go Chandubhai', while you are sitting in the park or somewhere. Ask him, 'Do you want cup of tea or something?' \- Converse in this manner. Someone may think you are crazy if they hear you, so do not converse in a way others can hear. Do it away from people; you will get the practice if You say it.

## When Chandubhai becomes obstinate

**Questioner:** After taking this Gnan, anger occurs; is that called a discharge too?

**Dadashri:** Who becomes angry - You just have to 'see' that.

**Questioner:** If anger arises repeatedly and often; is it still considered as discharge?

**Dadashri:** Whether it comes a hundred times or five hundred times, everything is called discharge, isn't it? 'You' should say, 'Chandubhai, you keep getting angry so ask for forgiveness from everybody.' Don't You say it like that? The mistake has been committed exactly.

**Questioner:** Even if I tell Chandubhai many times, if I scold him heavily ( _thapko_ ), he becomes obstinate ( _adai_ ); so then what should I do?

**Dadashri:** If he becomes obstinate, 'You' do not have to do anything; You just have to keep 'seeing' that. The Self has no _shakti_ (energy) 'to do' anything at all. The Self is a non-doer; the Self by nature is _gnata_ - _drashta_ - _parmanandi_ (knower-seer-in absolute bliss). Everything that needs to be 'done' is of the _pudgal,_ the non-Self complex. All the actions are of the element that is _jada,_ matter.

**Questioner:** When Chandubhai becomes obstinate and hurts the other person, what should I do?

**Dadashri** : You should ask him to apologise. You should tell him, 'Chandubhai, you became obstinate so ask for forgiveness.' How wonderful this Akram Science is that You do not have to do anything. You have to tell Chandubhai; You have to reprimand him, 'why did you get angry at him? Why are you doing this?' You should tell Chandubhai, 'I will do whatever you say but you abide by what 'I' tell you for an hour.' For one hour stay in Dada's Agnas and then do what Chandubhai says. You have to 'see' that too. If he is making You do anything contrary to Your goal then You should not listen to him.

## When someone curses...

**Questioner** : What should I do when someone's conduct with me is bad?

**Dadashri** : You should tell Chandubhai, 'Look, look at your 'photo'.' You should keep saying that. So then it will not touch 'You'. Chandubhai will look calm and cool. The other person will wonder how Chandubhai can remain so calm and cool.

Now, whenever someone is cursing Chandubhai, You are still separate. How can that person curse You, when he does not even know You? He knows Chandubhai. Chandubhai is not even You in any way, he is separate from You. Chandubhai is file number one, how can it touch You? It would not touch You anymore, would it? So tell Chandulal to keep this much within: 'Go ahead and curse me as much as you want to.' 'You' tell Chandubhai, 'You must have done something for him to curse you in this manner, why would he do so otherwise?'

Scripture writers have said that You are free for sure if You do not slip from Your state of _Shuddhatma_ , and if You do slip, then you lose the benefit of the penance ( _tapa_ ). You have to do penance. You have to do penance even when people criticize ( _ninda_ ) you. If people laugh in fun, You too should laugh in fun, 'O ho ho! Chandubhai, what kind of a man are you? Look what people are saying about you? They are criticizing you! What you used to be like! Even 'I' know what you were like.' You have to say it like that.

That is called Akram Vignan – the stepless Science. There is no binding of _karma_. This is where penance is needed. But where is the penance, if You remain separate like this and say it? You can say, 'Did you see all this of yours? Look at your world? What kind of a state you are in? Even I feel embarrassed by it.' That is how You talk to Chandubhai without anyone listening.

When something goes wrong, many people get scared, 'I end up doing things like this...!' they will say. Hey you! Do not say that. Tell the one who does wrong, 'Do _pratikraman_ , why did you do atikraman?' Would You not know the one doing the wrong?

**Questioner** : I know Chandubhai.

**Dadashri** : You have known him all along, and You used to have a relation with him in the past. When You say, 'Why did you do wrong? Do _pratikraman_ for it!', it proves that You are separate from him.

## Awareness against greed and pride

**Questioner** : It cannot be put in words but I did experience that. A few days after attaining Gnan from You, people beat up 'Chandubhai' at the factory. Normally Chandubhai would not take that; he would strike back. Through Gnan I remained in equanimity.

**Dadashri** : Equanimity ( _samata_ ) can be maintained during a beating, but it is important to see if it can be maintained in money matters.

**Questioner** : In money matters? But even in the beating, if the Gnan has not come to the level of experience, the ego will arise, will it not?

**Dadashri** : The Gnan has come to the level of experience in the _kashaya_ of pride ( _maan_ ) that is why the pride issue ceased. Now it is the _kashaya_ of money, that is the _kashaya_ of greed ( _lobha_ ), that remains. Therefore, in matters of money, equanimity will not remain.

**Questioner** : When this greed _kashaya_ leaves, does it mean that a state of equanimity is maintained no matter how much financial profit one makes or how much loss one incurs?

**Dadashri** : That will remain. But what would happen to you if someone you gave twenty five thousand rupees to, says something abusive to you?

**Questioner** : I would feel very angry towards him.

**Dadashri** : No, not like that, does Gnan remain or does it go away?

**Questioner** : It does remain now.

**Dadashri** : That is _Shuddhatma_ , and if Chandubhai is getting angry, You have to 'see' that.

**Questioner:** Yes, that is right, Chandubhai might get angry.

**Dadashri** : He will get angry, because that is the stock of _karma_ expressing, is it not? But You have to 'see' that and tell him, 'Why are you doing that? Why don't you shape up? You have wandered for infinite lives, so straighten out now.' Then what would you say if that man tells you that he will not give you even a dime?

**Questioner** : Then I would believe that 'fault is of the sufferer' and resolve it with equanimity.

**Dadashri** : Immediately?

**Questioner** : Yes. I must have taken from him, so he is not giving it back.

**Dadashri** : Then your _lobha kashaya_ (passion of greed) has gone.

**Questioner** : It is very difficult to get rid of greed.

**Dadashri** : It is difficult but if you do not try to be overwise, then this Gnan is such that it will keep everything precise.

Even if he does not give you even a dime of the hundred thousand he owes you, it should not show on your face. If it does, then that is the end of that.

**Questioner** : If he owes one million rupees and if he gives all but couple of hundred thousand, then it is like a spider losing just one leg. Whereas if one incurs a loss of twelve million rupees instead of ten, then...

**Dadashri** : What even if the loss is of eighteen million?

**Questioner** : Gnan should remain then too.

**Dadashri** : What even if there is a loss of twenty eight million?

**Questioner** : Then what does it matter even if it is a hundred million, when he is not going to give back anything?

**Dadashri** : All You have to tell Chandubhai is, 'Chandubhai, do not break your inner intent that you want to return the money. You decide that you want to give whenever you have the money.' If it is his then no one can stop him from getting it and if it is not, then he will suffer.

**Questioner** : What You just said is really great.

**Dadashri** : He is bound to get it. This is all an account of _karma._ Things get ruined when the mind spoils. When the mind spoils, one will threaten, 'I will file a complaint in the court; I will do this and I will do that.' In this way he will scare him into giving back some five or ten thousand. For such a crime today, he will have to pay for it later. So do not make such mistakes. You have to let go of it peacefully. This is all I have done all my life. One should not have any greed ( _lobha_ ) and pride ( _maan_ ), if he wants to go to _moksha_.

## The Self is no one's boss

**Questioner** : We still have problem about money. Every morning, first thing, we have discussions that expenses are increasing but we have to have increase in income first, should we not?

**Dadashri** : Yes, but it is Chandubhai who is doing all the grumbling, not You, are You?

**Questioner** : Yes, Chandubhai does that.

**Dadashri** : Chandubhai has become the husband. He has become someone's son, has he not? He must be someone's father too, is he not? Whereas You are no one's father, no ones husband, that is how unanointable ( _nirleyp_ ) You are.

When time is wasted

**Questioner** : In business and everywhere, time gets wasted in meaningless talks; in insignificant talks.

**Dadashri** : You will have meaningless talks, insignificant talk, but have You ever said, 'Chandubhai, why are you wasting time unnecessarily in this manner?'

**Questioner** : Yes, but I say it two hours later, then I do at least one _pratikraman_ afterwards.

**Dadashri** : And if he does not listen about the _pratikraman_ , then You tell him, 'Hey Chandubhai, sit in front of me. What do you gain by wasting your time like this? Tell me.' Then he will automatically straighten out. Chandubhai is not illiterate, is he? He is educated.

## When the boss reprimands...

Now, the boss reprimands Chandubhai, how can he reprimand You? He does not even know You. When the boss leaves having reprimanded Chandubhai, go into the office and tell Chandubhai, 'You must have said something in order for him to reprimand you. Why don't you be quiet?' Can You say that or not? And these days does the boss reprimand or not?

**Questioner** : Yes he does.

**Dadashri** : He had a fight with his wife at home and so he takes it out on you. Does that not happen? You keep 'knowing' Chandubhai. 'Know' whether he is doing well at the office or not, and You even have to tell him, 'Why are you acting like that? Why don't you finish your work?' What is wrong in telling him? What is wrong in speaking up? It is just an adjustment, otherwise nothing will be accomplished. If You speak in this way, there would not be any chaos.

**Questioner** : In the _gnata_ - _drashta_ (knower-seer) state, do I have to differentiate between whether Chandubhai is being proper or not?

**Dadashri** : 'You' have nothing to do with whether he remains proper or not. 'You' just have to see whether 'You' are able to or not. Chandubhai may or may not remain proper; he may even default in that. You have nothing to do with that.

## The unsupported has become supported

Where is the problem when Your non-stop train has left for Mumbai? It is going to reach its destination, even if it is running slow. It will be there in no time, so You should just be ready. The inner voice will tell You when it arrives.

You are _Shuddhatma_ (the Self) and this is Chandubhai (the non-Self). There are two of you. From one, two have arisen. 'You' now have to take care of 'Chandubhai', as a neighbor. And when Chandubhai comes under difficulty, then You should pat him on his shoulders and assure him that You are with him. Up until now, he was supportless; he was by himself but now he has Your support ( _sadhara_ ). Whose shoulder would he cry on when he did not have any support ( _nodhara_ )? If he cries in front of his wife, she will take it the wrong way and he cannot cry in front of his parents.

**Questioner** : Now, if someone makes me talk, should I talk or not?

**Dadashri** : You may talk, you should do everything necessary in worldly interaction. You have to continue 'knowing'. You should say, 'Chandubhai, talk to him now; why don't you talk to him.' So then he will talk too and the worldly interaction will continue. You should continue 'seeing' what Chandubhai is doing. Remain the knower-seer ( _gnata_ - _drashta_ ). Nature ( _swabhav_ ) of both are separate, hence the Self will remain in its own nature and the _pudgal_ (non-Self complex) in its nature. Each remains in its own attribute ( _gunadharma_ ).

## The Self and the non-Self

Thus Chandubhai's work is being done by _vyavasthit_ _shakti_ (scientific circumstantial evidence). You just need to keep 'seeing' what Chandubhai is doing and what he is not. You do not need to interfere with the _mana_ (mind), _buddhi_ (intellect), _chit_ (knowledge vision complex) and _ahamkar_ (ego). You need to keep 'seeing' what the intellect is doing. You need to keep 'seeing' the intellect and what right or wrong it is doing. The only time to interfere is when Chandubhai gets in to lots of worldly difficulties and at such a time You should say, 'I am verily pure Soul, I am with you.' then it will be all right. When he experiences worldly difficulties, like when his leg or the hand is hurting, tell him, 'Do not worry, let it hurt, I am here with you?' Otherwise when the body is having difficulties, say, 'not mine,' and it will remain separate. This is because a line of demarcation has been made, which separates the Self and the non-Self. Thus one needs to understand all this as a regular course of study. You will not forget whatever I am saying, will You?

## No connection between conduct and liberation

Not everyone needs to take 'this' vow of celibacy. All this needs to be dealt with, with equanimity. But if liking for it (sexuality) is increasing, then You should say, 'Chandubhai, do not get too interested in it.' 'You' should say something like that, but You should remain pure Soul ( _Shuddhatma_ ). Whatever becomes of Chandubhai, You should make it a practice of conversing with him. If You maintain such a separate relation, then this 'lift' (elevator) path will become beneficial quicker. And 'we' have given You such separation which You can experience very easily. When Chandubhai does anything wrong, You have to tell him, 'If you do that, it is not acceptable to Me. I have become _Shuddhatma_ , but this wrong doing is not acceptable. You too will have to become pure ( _shuddha_ ).' When You say that, it will automatically continue to become pure. If you separate the worldly life, then it is pure indeed. The One who keeps his worldly interactions ( _vyavahar_ ) separate, 'He' will attain _moksha,_ regardless of the nature of his (Chandubhai's) worldly conduct. Conduct ( _achar_ ) is of no concern there. 'You' should tell Chandubhai, 'Why are you doing this?', then You become separate from the _vyavahar_ – the worldly interaction. You are _Shuddhatma_ and Chandubhai is separate from You.

The Self tells the tendencies ( _vrutis_ ), 'Chandubhai, if you want to do your own thing, then you and 'I' are separate. But if you do it with Me as one ( _ekata_ ), then you will get whatever you want. You too will have eternal bliss. And if you do not want to do it as one with Me; then go for external pleasures.' You are _Shuddhatma_ \- that is your real state and it is in eternal bliss. Those external pleasures are not really bliss, are they? This bliss of the Self will never leave You; not even when someone curses you.

## Reprimand Chandubhai, keeping him separate

We had recently gone to Khambhat, there one man was told, 'recite _Dada Bhagwan na aseem jai jai kar ho'_ , so he started to do that but without putting any heart into it. You could not see any enthusiasm in him. So I told him, 'I tell you what you do, what is your name?' 'Chandu' he replied. 'Tell Chandu, 'sing it methodically and properly. Saying it in this muddled fashion is not acceptable to Me.' He was instructed to tell 'Chandu', and then Chandu sang well all the way. This is the way; there is nothing else. All You have to say is, 'Why is this happening? It should not be so.' Then everything will be fine. But there is no one there to caution ( _kahenaro_ ), is there? At least You are there if there is no one else. Will there be any 'dozing' after that? You (Chandubhai) will not like it if someone else were to tell you that, so what is wrong if 'You' tell him? So now 'You' should tell him. Do you understand?

**Questioner** : Yes, Dada.

**Dadashri** : If You say it just once, 'Hey Chandubhai, you being a smart Ph.D. - what are you saying?' That is how 'You' should talk to him, because he knows that there is a separation; that he is separate and the Self is separate. But such separation is not maintained. Should that separation not be maintained? Then You should also 'see' if he is following through with what You have cautioned him about. You should try saying it using the examples I am giving you.

'We' tell Patel (Dadashi's relative self), 'Your legs are hurting a lot, aren't they? Do not worry, it is only for tonight and 'I' am with you.' Pat his shoulder like this. And it will be as if nothing is wrong. Even the pain will go away. He has to pass the whole day, does he not? Will he gain anything by getting irritated with the wife?

## Pratikraman destroys opinions

**Questioner** : After attaining Gnan, all the tendencies ( _vrutis_ ) return to their 'home', do they not? Dada, when I come here, I think of nothing but this _satsang_ , but when I leave from here, then I have thoughts only of the outside world; thoughts of shoes, clothes, food etc.

**Dadashri** : That is the function of the mind, which 'You' have to 'see'.

**Questioner** : It feels that it is happening willingly and with interest.

**Dadashri** : Chandubhai gets interested, and You have to 'see' that too, and tell him, 'What pleasure are you going to derive form all this? What happiness do you expect to get out of them?' One is bound to get interested. Interest depends on the body, does it not? Chandubhai becomes interested.

All pleasure, beside the real bliss of the Self is illusory and You have to turn them into 'not likable'. You should 'see', 'Where is the pleasure in this?' You have to say something like this to Chandubhai.

**Questioner** : Dada, it is afterwards that I feel 'where is the happiness in this?' but at the time I forget.

**Dadashri** : No, But forgetting is the unfolding of _karma_ (effect), is it not? So the best solution for it is conversing with file number one, 'how are you doing? How is it?' What should You say?

**Questioner** : There should be constant conversation with him, 'why did you miss this critical opportunity? This is not good.'

**Dadashri** : You can say that. You can say that much.

**Questioner** : I can say that, 'You understand this Gnan so much, and yet why do you forget it at the critical moment?'

**Dadashri** : You can say that much. Then if he keeps straying off, then You have to tell him again and make him do _pratikraman_. He has to repent otherwise he will start believing that what he does is fine. _Pratikraman_ means your opinion has changed regarding that matter, to 'it should not be like that'. Our opinion of 'this is good and this is bad' is now broken.

## Satsang begins when You converse with Chandubhai

**Questioner** : After meeting Dada, say if I do not find anyone to do _satsang_ with, can I tell Chandubhai, 'Come Chandubhai, let us do _satsang_.'?

**Dadashri** : You can tell him everything. Now You know Chandubhai, what can You not say to him? There is nothing left once You know that Chandubhai is with You.

**Questioner** : Now which is better, Chandubhai doing _satsang_ on his own or everyone getting together and doing it?

**Dadashri** : For now whether You do it alone or in a group, talking to Chandubhai is enough. The _satsang_ has started. Talking to Chandubhai is itself _satsang_.

## Join in with everyone in satsang

When you (Chandubhai) join into whatever others are doing in our _satsang_ ; that is the highest place to be in. 'You' should keep saying, 'Chandubhai, go ahead and join in with them.' If he says, 'They are all singing', tell him, 'You sing along too.' If everyone is clapping, tell him 'Start clapping.' So then that is the highest state, because it is all with _purushartha_ (following agnas for separation through conversation) is it not? One is in His own _purushartha_ ; therefore there is _shukladhyan_ (I am pure Soul) within and _dharmadhyan_ (absence of adverse meditation) on the outside.

## When someone hurts the ego...

**Questioner** : Sometimes when someone makes an accusation, the ego gets hurt; it feels slighted and there is hurt within. I am talking about hurt caused by others.

**Dadashri** : You should let go of that. On the contrary, it is good if your ego gets hurt. However, if someone's ego gets hurt because of you; that responsibility falls on you. But this is even better, the biggest nuisance within has ceased!

**Questioner** : Even when I have the understanding within that it is the ego that has been hurt, that wounded ego still continues to cause me to suffer pain.

**Dadashri** : When it makes you suffer pain then 'know' 'today I gained a big profit.'

**Questioner** : Dada, such awareness does not remain.

**Dadashri** : It will; if not at that time, it will do so later. Sooner or later it will, will it not? It does not right now because You are not in such a habit. At the moment you do not have the habit of drinking 'bitter tea', but when you say, 'Oh! This is tasty like tea', then you will like it. And therefore, because one has not tasted the bitter tea, he does not like it from the beginning. There is a lot to be gained from the ego that is hurting from within. When the mind is hurting from within, there is not much profit. You lose a lot by hurting someone's ego. You have to get rid of such losses, do You not? Do You understand that?

**Questioner** : I understand all that You are saying, but that ego keeps hurting. What should I do so that it does not hurt me?

**Dadashri** : That _karma_ of such suffering has been written (from past life's causes). If you were meant to suffer _ashata-vedaniya_ (suffering of pain), then you will continue to suffer. 'You' have to 'know' that this is being suffered ( _bhagavavoo_ ) by Chandubhai. The moment You take 'interest' ( _rus_ ) in it, the _karma_ of pain sticks and You become you.

**Questioner** : What do you mean by 'taking interest' in it?

**Dadashri** : 'Why does that happen to me? Why is this happening to me? Why is he doing that?' - all that is considered as 'taking interest' ( _rus lidho_ ). When something like that happens, Your belief should be, 'today the biggest loss is broken. This is very beneficial'.

**Questioner** : Dada, are these not all external adjustments, such as 'I am greatful to you that it helped get rid of my loss. Bless you, you did good for me.'?

**Dadashri** : Yes. Inner adjustments will take place only when the external adjustments happen; otherwise inner adjustments will not happen, will they? You will find inner solution, when You take external adjustments.

**Questioner** : I know these external adjustments, and they help me in certain ways, and then they become dull and ineffective.

**Dadashri** : So they start like that and then they completely come to an end. You cannot endure it because of continued interest in it. You become interested (become one) in it.

**Questioner** : It is not that I cannot bear it; others may or may not know it, but the ego continues to hurt within.

**Dadashri** : That hurt is what You have to 'see', do You not? The more it hurts, the better it is. You will 'profit' a lot from that. That is where You have to bring an end to the 'sufferer' (the ego), do You not? It has to become void of profit-loss, does it not? It is great when there is neither a loss nor a profit.

**Questioner** : Is that a fact or is it just for the purpose of consolation? If I say such things to the ego, it will reply that it is just consolation.

**Dadashri** : Then what else? If not consolation what else can You give it?

**Questioner** : It needs something solid.

**Dadashri** : It is solid. 'You' tell Chandubhai, 'Accept it if you so chose, otherwise here 'I' am! Chandubhai, your loss will increase; what problems do I have?' So this is the only consoling, what else can you tell him? Should You drink poison for him? He can drink it if he so chooses.

'We' had completed, finished 'seeing' the whole world like this. I, on the contrary, am pleased when such a thing arises.

**Questioner** : I do not find a solution. What do I ask? I cannot get what I want.

**Dadashri** : No, if You do not get it, then it will come around on its own.

**Questioner** : One cannot say that it will come around on its own, Dada. How can we say that? There is no meaning in that, is there? One just has to wait, that's not enough.

**Dadashri** : To sit and wait is the best; You just have to continue 'seeing' it.

**Questioner** : But what about the ego that continues to 'burn' me within?

**Dadashri** : The more it (ego) burns, the lesser it becomes. You want to reduce everything, do You not? You want to burn the wood to ashes, so however much of it is burns, there is that much less to burn. On the contrary it is better if it burns more. Keep 'seeing' it. It has to be burnt anyway, does it not?

**Questioner** : Dada, but I feel that I am burning a little within too... the heat from that burning ego is such that it gets me too.

**Dadashri** : When you feel that you have 'superficial burns' from that heat of the burning ego, You have to 'know' that, this is usual when a huge blaze happens within. Move away from there when You feel the heat. The Self is such that, it is not affected by the heat or the fire, at all. If he believes in the mind that the fire touched him, it is wrong. It seems to have touched but it does not touch. It does not give the Self any pain ( _dukha_ ). He may even feel, 'I got burnt.' But the Self is such that nothing touches it. There is one hundred percent guarantee on that. When You have been given such a wonderful Self, where is there reason for any such discussion? However much loss you bear, that much is your gain.

**Questioner:** Dada, the Self that You have given Me, how can the complete experience of that be maintained the whole day?

**Dadashri:** Yes. The one who used to live wrong has now begun to live right, so now You have to proceed ahead by asking and getting the correct answers. If there is a loss (pending unsettled _karma_ ) of five hundred then it is settled but if you have a loss of five thousand then it will take time; there You have to keep 'seeing' only.

**Questioner:** That is correct.

**Dadashri:** Whatever you had _bhaav_ (attraction) towards, is the very thing You need to have _abhaav_ (dislike) for. So if dislike ( _abhaav_ ) prevails then know that you used to like it a lot before and now its result is dislike and it feels bitter.

You will not understand if 'You - the Self' sit on the side of the non-Self. If You want to become free then it is possible to understand everything. What do You need from that non-Self ( _pudgal_ ) side? There is nothing to be taken or given.

**Questioner** : Dada, I want to be free, but I am not able to do so.

**Dadashri** : At least You do know that You want to be free and yet you cannot. So, it will automatically become separate if You go after it. Then, if You get after it, it will slowly go away. You should know that it is like a tape that is stuck on the skin and that it is not coming off easily. Keep applying water or something else on it and it will slowly come off. You have no choice but remove it, right?

**Questioner** : So does one have to hope and sit and wait for it to happen?

**Dadashri** : You do not have to hope and wait at all. 'You' have to keep 'seeing' what is not coming off. Who is the one that has hope? The Self does not have any aspiration. Are these losses likely to go away in an hour?! It will take two to three lifetimes to get rid of the loss of infinite past lives. Before you would not have been able to get rid of it even over a hundred thousand lifetimes! It became straightforward because of Dada's Gnan; so, on the ontrary you should sing praise to Dada's Gnan, that 'I attained this Gnan and that I met Dada!'

**Questioner** : That does not happen, but now I feel, how unfortunate I am that despite meeting such a Dada, I do not know how to get my work done.

**Dadashri** : Yes, You have to get Your work done now that You have met Dada. You may not even see him ever again.

If you do not put up with the complaints of the non-Self, then the loss will come to end on its own. But Your work will be done if You follow Dada's Agnas. Do not even think about it (the non-Self and its tantrum). Do not see how much loss there is, all You have to focus on is to 'see' how You can follow His Agna and make sure You do not forget the Agnas; that is all. Where is the loss in this?

What should You do when the ego is badly broken? All the weapons around you may cause a deep wound, but the Self has infinite _shakti_ (energy and power), hence affirm, 'I am full of infinite energy, you can do whatever you want to!' You should become obstinate like that; do penance ( _tapa_ ). ''I' have infinite energy ( _shakti_ )', and so then they (ego and its reactions) will gradually become less on their own. As they become few, their energy will be broken. They will all be destroyed in My presence. There is enormous _shakti_ , is there not?

**Questioner** : The _nischaya_ (unflinching decision) I have made in Your presence is, I want to accomplish it in Your presence only.

**Dadashri** : It will be fulfilled! You will feel as if tremendous energy has arisen within.

**Questioner** : Yes, Dada. The intensity has gone down. The intensity with which the thoughts used to come before, that intensity is not there anymore.

**Dadashri** : Yes, that is it. It will go away on its own. Nothing else will touch you if You remain strong, and the Self possesses infinite energy; there is no other special energy that is stronger. So then what are others going to do? And furthermore, it is neutral; it is neither a female, nor a male.

**Questioner** : That is true. Now, from within, the desires do not get endorsement as they used to before.

**Dadashri** : They will not. That is the greatest wonder, is it not?! This energy is because of that, is it not? Tremendous energy is because of just that. Would it otherwise stay? If for just one day it were to go away, that would be the end.

**Questioner** : Without Akram science, it is not possible.

**Dadashri** : Yes that is true. Just say, 'I am full of infinite energy.' Be stubborn by saying, 'I am full of infinite energy', and then do the penance ( _tapa_ ), that is all. That time has come.

**Questioner** : That is correct.

**Dadashri** : When thoughts come, none of the thoughts are of any importance. As long as the thought continues on it own, let it do so. If it does not continue and it is sent back, then let it turn back. That is how _vyavasthit_ is. Whatever happens is correct. So do not get into any other problems. Everything stops when You say, 'I am full of infinite energy.' No matter what it is, 'I am full of infinite energy', will bring about a solution for it. There is infinite energy in the Self.

## The Wonder of Akram Vignan

If you remain as the Self, then all the _karma_ discharge, but when you do not remain as the Self, if you interfere slightly, then that _karma_ will leave a slight stain on you. Because whatever the belief there is, it is not Yours; you are making a mistake there.

**Questioner** : Does one slip from the Self into the non-Self state?

**Dadashri** : No, it does not shift. It does not go into the non-Self. But in his mind, he feels, 'Who is this? It is my mistake, is it not?' But it is 'my mistake' when you were 'Chandubhai'. Till then it was your mistake. Now, You have become a _Shuddhatma_. _Shuddhatma_ does not have such mistakes at all. So at the most, when that happens, You should say, 'Chandubhai, oh ho ho! You made a mistake, you made a huge mistake!' What happens with that? When You say that, is shows the separation and Your responsibility ends there.

Our Gnan is such that when someone accuses you of stealing his watch, You would tell him, 'Sir, whatever you think is correct.' You have to become the Self and then give him the answers. Then, if at that moment, You become 'Chandubhai', the Self (Atma) given to you 'goes away'. So this is the problem in our Akram Vignan.

**Questioner** : Even during the problem, awareness continues developing. This is a path of developing awareness.

**Dadashri** : Yes. Your awareness will increase a lot. It will go a lot higher. But, in daily interactions, now even if the slightest interference were to exist; then he (Chandulal) will immediately accept it; 'When did I steal?' Hey You! Why are You defending him ('Chandubhai')? Why do You have to defend something that is not about You? You do not have to defend what is not about You. It is Your mistake when you accept it as Yours, is it not? Later the awareness comes and He says, 'I made a mistake.' The realization comes later on, but that much awareness is there.

This Gnan is such that it will take You to _moksha_. But You should help it a lot with Your awareness. You should make the effort ( _purushartha_ ) to help him. The real _purushartha_ begins after one becomes a _Purush_ (the Self). _Prakruti_ (non-Self complex) and the Self have become separate. As long as you were 'Chandubhai', there was the _prakruti_. The _prakruti_ used to make you dance as long as you were 'Chandubahi'. You have become the _Purush_ and _prakruti_ has become separate. _Purushartha_ arises after one becomes the _Purush_. Awareness lies in _purushartha_ for sure. What else can be in _purushartha_? The unflinching decision of Yours ( _nischaya_ ) should be there. You should converse with the non-Self with steadiness.

**Questioner:** This means that I should not insist that this is right and this is wrong.

**Dadashri:** There is nothing wrong or right. You must not insist on this at all. But you have never experienced something like this before. If someone accuses you of stealing, you have never heard or experienced such a thing before, and suddenly you hear this, so what would happen? The non-Self will become emotional. That is why You should say to 'Chandubhai', 'You are a thief. Don't worry if someone calls you a thief.' 'You' need to let him know such things from the beginning. Tell him, 'Don't worry if someone blames you. Don't worry even if someone slaps you.' 'You' should let him know that in advance. Otherwise, even if someone does not slap you but does the gestures, it will have an effect on you. So a prior practice is beneficial. You should make him rehearse that, should You not? It is helpful. So, when he faces such difficulty, then that rehersal will be helpful. This Gnan is keeping so many people in uninterrupted bliss ( _samadhi_ ).

# [1.4] Who becomes the non-Self? Who is the Knower?

## The Self never becomes the non-Self

**Questioner** : Dada, I do remember, but sometimes when I am involved in all these activities, I become _tanmayakar_ (to become the form of the body and the mind, to become the non-Self, to become engrossed, to 'become' Chandubhai) in it.

**Dadashri** : There is no problem if you become _tanmayakar_. The one becoming _tanmayakar_ is not You; 'Chandubhai' becomes _tanmayakar_ , but You think that You became _tanmayakar_ , that is all. 'You' should know that 'Chandubhai' becomes _tanmayakar_ and drinks tea. That is all You have to 'know'.

If You are becoming engrossed, You would not know that. Who knows that you have become engrossed? 'You' are the one who knows that, and therefore You are not _tanmayakar_ with it.

**Questioner** : So then, does the _pudgal_ (non-Self complex) become engrossed?

**Dadashri** : There is such power in the _pudgal_. He becomes a big boss. Sometimes the ego ( _ahamkar_ ) becomes engrossed, sometimes the intellect ( _buddhi_ ) does, but You do not become engrossed ( _tanmayakar_ ). How can You know that the engrossment occured? Therefore, You are the knower of all that. It is just that you believe that you became engrossed. No, You do not become engrossed.

**Questioner** : I do not have the awareness ( _khyal, jagruti_ ) when I enter into engrossment, but later that awareness comes.

**Dadashri** : Even if You know of it later, there is no problem. It is because of the force of it (unfolding _karma_ ), when the force goes down, the awareness will come. The greater the force, the lesser your) will be.

If you are selling tickets at a station, you will get fed up when a huge crowd comes and they are being impatient. But they will become patient soon. You just keep selling the tickets. You will have fun later. This is just a force. You do not feel that way when the _karma_ is light. It happens when there is a force of heavy _karma_. So for some it happens in matters of business, for some it happens in sexual matters. If you have a 'file' of sexuality, then you should take a vow of celibacy for six months. Then the awareness will be maintained.

**Questioner** : When I become engrossed, should I take that as lack of awareness ( _jagruti_ ), or what?

**Dadashri** : It is not lack of awareness. Awareness is there, but the force of the unfolding of the _karma_ is very strong. Your finger will remain steady in the force of water coming out of a one inch pipe, but under the force of water coming out an inch and a half pipe, it will move away. Such is the force of _karma_. As that force goes down, the finger will stay there again. Awareness is constantly there, but however much of it ( _karma_ ) has happened this way, You will have to settle them again. Those files that passed in absence of awareness will have to be settled again with awareness. So they will come for the second time. They will keep coming back in this very life. Awareness will remain constantly.

**Questioner** : The awareness ( _laksha_ ) returns immediately, but as such it does not remain from one minute to the next.

**Dadashri** : It is 'Chandubhai' who becomes the body-mind ( _tanmaya_ ), not You. This Gnan is such that You will not become _tanmayakar_! 'You' have to 'see' 'Chandubhai' when he becomes the body-mind form ( _tanmayakar_ ). And that practice is needed. And he needs _satsang_. As you come to _satsang_ and sit next to Me, that energy will continue to increase.

**Questioner** : Is new _karma_ charged if I become engrossed ( _tanmayakar_ )?

**Dadashri** : No, You know of it afterwards, do You not? You know that 'Chandubhai' had become engrossed. Therefore, it does not charge. When you apply soap to your clothes and if they do not get washed properly, then apply the soap again. If you make a mistake in wringing out the clothes, then go and wring them out again. It is an easy way of Dada, is it not?

**Questioner** : In any action I carry out, I become one with that action ( _ekakaar_ ). So then who brings me back in to the awareness of _Shuddhatma_?

**Dadashri** : No one does that at all. Even during that time it was there. It is the tendencies ( _vrutis_ ) that become engrossed. The Self was there in the form of light for sure. When the tendencies become _tanmayakar_ ; it makes one wonder whether the awareness was there or not. Hey You! It is there! When the confusion-fog dissipates, You will 'see' as the Self, the presence of _Shuddhatma_ again. It is even there during sleep.

**Questioner** : Mainly when something that I like comes along, I become engrossed ( _tanmayakar_ ) in it.

**Dadashri** : Yes, but 'Chandubhai' becomes _tanmayakar_ , not You. 'You' would know that 'Chandubhai' has now become _tanmayakar_. Then You have to tell 'Chandubhai' 'You create a havoc when something you do not like comes along, so why don't you keep everything straight?' He disagrees when he does not like something. The one disagreeing because he does not like it; is 'Chandubhai', and the one who agrees when he likes it is also Chandubhai. So the one who keeps doing _raag_ - _dwesh_ (attachment-abhorrence) is Chandubhai and the one remaining _vitarag_ (absolutely free from attachment and abhorrence) is You. Whether 'Chandubhai' is doing _raag_ or whether he is doing _dwesh_ , You remain _vitarag_ , that is the knower-seer and eternally blissful You.

## It is an illusion that You became _tanmayakar_

**Questioner** : In the situation, when I become _tanmayakar_...

**Dadashri** : The one who becomes engrossed is not even You, it is not _Shuddhatma_. _Shuddhatma_ can never become engrossed. It is your illusory belief, and it is because of such a belief, that you become _tanmayakar_. 'Know' how much _tanmayakar_ he has become. Is he completely engrossed or partially engrossed or has he become completely _tanmayakar_? 'Know' all that, and You will be free.

**Questioner** : This is a fundamental question. You have said that after attaining Gnan, everyone becomes _nirleyp_ (unsmearable, unanointable by any particle of _karma_ ), but I cannot see that I have become _nirleyp_. I see that he becomes _leypaiman_ (smeared) and then he becomes separate, then he becomes _leypaiman_ again. Why do I feel that?

**Dadashri** : You become aware that you are being smeared upon, is that not so? That awareness is not the awareness of the Self. The awareness of Self can never become anointed, covered up or smeared; such awareness is called awareness of the Self. So You have to say that, 'this not My location.' How can My place be desolate like this? Mine is a magnificent, gigantic place; it is grand. How can 'our' place be so desolate? Can You not tell from the aroma of the food that 'this is not my restaurant?' From the aroma, you can even tell that the restaurant is not ours. Similiarly the one who becomes _tanamayakar_ is not You. So You just have to see how he becomes engrossed; whether partially or completely.

**Questioner** : Yes, so there are different degrees of engrossment.

**Dadashri** : Yes, but the One who 'knows' the different degrees of engrossment, is the Self. It is like this, so many people use thermometers but do the thermometers ever get a fever? _Shuddhatma_ is similar to a thermometer. It shows how much fever there is, but it never has a fever! It shows the degree of fever. People say that this thermometer has picked up fever because people keep touching it. You fool, can it catch a fever? The doctor may catch a fever, but not the thermometer. The owner, the doctor, will catch the fever.

**Questioner** : When I become _tanmayakar_ ; I lose awareness of _Shuddhatma_ , for that time period, do I not?

**Dadashri** : But why does it not remain? When you feel, 'I became engrossed', then you lose that awareness. It is like when, even though a man did not drink alcohol he says, 'today I had some alcohol', for that period of time he becomes intoxicated. So his actions are like that of a drunk, even though he has not had any alcohol.

**Questioner** : But sometimes I become so smeared ( _leypaiman_ ) that, it all looks to me as if I am completely drunk with alcohol. That is the question. So how can I remain in a _nirleyp_ (smear-free) state?

**Dadashri** : You have to know that 'this is not my hotel', then You will find the hotel that is Yours. 'I am nirlyep' In the hotel that Dada has placed Me, I am verily pure ( _shuddha_ ), so how can this smear Me?'

_Drashya_ (that what is to be seen; object), and _drashta_ (seer) cannot become one. The one that has become _tanmayakar_ , it is a _drashya_ , and _drashya_ itself can never understand that it has become engrossed ( _tanmayakar_ ). Only the _drashta_ knows that. Who is the One who knows that? It is the _drashta_. You, the Self are the _drashta_ (seer). Still, You do not know that, what a wonder that is?!

**Questioner** : Something happens when I end up becoming a part of _drashya_. Where did My 'seeing' ( _drashtapanu_ ) go at that time?

**Dadashri** : No. It is like this; you have studied in a laboratory, so are you able to do it within four hours?

**Questioner** : No.

**Dadashri** : If an experiment has been done once, and you ask him to do it again, he will have to put this, put that in it. So when it takes that long for even an experiment; would this not take time?

**Questioner** : But at that time I have to sit there as the seer on the side, no? That 'seer' becomes engrossed.

**Dadashri** ; No, he is sitting separate. It appears to you that you have become one with it; but You will have to have some practice. How can it work without any practice? And if one does become one with it, then he cannot become separate, how will you separate them? So it does not become one. Attributes of both (the Self and the non-Self) are different. Are they not? Each have come into their own attributes!

## Illusory effects are not Mine

You have to know that all this seems as if it is real but infact it is just an illusion effect ( _bhasyamaan parinaam_ ), and all of that is not 'Your' effect. It is of the non-Self. If You understand this much, then there will be great awareness. Even this Gnan that You have been given holds tremendous awareness but one deliberately interferes in it and that is why the awareness goes down. Nothing will touch You at all, if You have the awareness.

**Questioner** : You have said that all the keys are in my hands; it is my _nischaya_ (firm unwavering decision) to remain in the Agnas, so then why does my unawareness ( _ajagruti_ ) become prolonged?

**Dadashri** : You have to bring in the awareness, do You not? You should increase the awareness. That verily is the _purushartha_ , is it not? Awareness is the _purushartha_ , there is no other _purushartha_. All the awareness will arise when You live in the five Agnas. Otherwise, how will the awareness arise? There is less awareness because one does not follow the five Agnas.

Now, You have to 'see' the illusory effect. _Bhasyamaan_ means that it may or may not be there. It just appears that way. It means that one can see them, but they are not the real thing. If one believes that it is true, then that is what he will see, otherwise it will not be there. It will not seem wrong, that is how _bhasyamaan_ _parinaam_ is. It is an illusion. As long as there is entanglement, these illusory effects will cause great settle of harassment.

## Dada has given us the Self which is nirleyp and nishank

**Questioner** : This discharge you mentioned, it is discharge (of _karma_ ) without new _karma_ bondage ( _samvarpurvak_ _nirjara_ ). That is only possible if one remains _nirleyp_ (unanointed, unsmeared by _karma_ ), is it not?

**Dadashri** : You are _nirleyp_ indeed, so where is it ( _karma_ ) going to come from? From which town is it going to come from? The Self is _nirleyp_ for sure. It is this suspicion ( _shanka_ ) that is anointing ( _leypayamaan_ ) you. But if you ask the Lord, 'My Lord, he has doubts so he is not _nirleyp_ , is he?' and He would tell you, 'No, even if he has doubts, he will not bind any _karma_.' Because suspicion (about awareness) is itself awareness, after Gnan. What does the Lord say? People of this world ( _agnanis_ ) will not have any doubts; they will not question anything. This person has doubts, he has suspicion and so he is aware'. Because having doubts is awareness. What does the Lord say? He says, 'doubts will not arise in worldly people. These people (Self-Realized) have doubts, therefore there is awareness and therefore they will not bind any _karma_. So how shrewd The Lord is?

I am not covering up. One would say, 'I am not hiding anything. Generally a son will hide things from his father and vice versa; this is an exact knowledge that because you have doubts, You are doubt-free ( _nishank_ ); that is why you are _Shuddhatma_. It is for sure that You have become _Shuddhatma_. Why did You have doubts? No one will have doubts. He will never suspect that he became engrossed ( _tanmayakar_ ) with a certain person. So, it is true too, that you are _nishank_ (beyond all doubts) even when you have the doubt. It decided that you are a _Shuddhatma_ because you had the suspicion. So You can say that it is decided now. I do not have any problems. There is no misery. Who becomes suspicious, the living or the dead?

**Questioner** : Only the one who is living.

**Dadashri** : Whoever has suspicion, God calls them alive and others as dead; that is what the Gnan says. Is this talk of wisdom? Is Tirthankars' talk wisdom? Is the talk of these _Vitarags_ wisdom? Inspite of having suspicion, You are suspicion-free! So that is how wonderful and new this Gnan is. Now if one does not apply the Gnan strongly, then that is his own mistake, is it not?

## To 'see' unfolding of _karma_ is Akram

## Internal conversation is the separation of awakened awareness

We have to be the knower and the seer of the _antahkaran_ (inner instruments comprising the mind ( _mana_ ), _chit_ (that which sees and knows), intellect ( _buddhi_ ) and ego ( _ahamkar_ )) which is becoming _tanmayakar_ (getting absorbed) in the body, mind or speech within. Inside if the _antahkaran_ does not become absorbed then no work will get done. It must become absorbed, no?

When we start to come over here, everything inside would be _tanmayakar_ only, but 'we' remain as the 'knower' and the 'seer'. We settle with awareness of separation. You cannot do that much work but it will remain in your awareness ( _laksha_ ) that 'I am _Shuddhatma_ '. Some times it does not remain in the awareness but then it will remain in conviction ( _pratiti_ ). Other than that everything is actively happening within. We should keep 'seeing' it.

**Questioner:** Thoughts arise and then the engrossment (becoming one with the mind and the body) happens. The _chit_ shows the scenes; is that called the state of becoming _tanmayakar_?

**Dadashri:** But that is discharge only, there is no problem with that. 'You' (the Self) 'knew' that, since then, 'You' are separate and 'He' (Chandubhai)' is separate. The 'knower' is always separate. The 'doer' is the one with interference and interference effects. 'We (the Self)' are separate in all aspects.

**Questioner:** It remains just like that; that only Chandubhai (the non-Self) does all this. Previously I used to remain absorbed in the unfolding _karma_ effect ( _udaya_ ), now instead 'I' see my own _udaya_.

**Dadashri:** We remain as the 'seer' of that _udaya_ (unfolding _karma_.)

**Questioner:** We 'see' our _udaya_ \- that such is my unfolding _karma_.

**Dadashri:** Now You have to remain the seer of all unfolding _karma_ , that is called Akram (step-less path of Self-realization).

**Questioner:** If we miss the 'seeing', only then the intellect will interfere, no?

Dadashri: Yes. But you are seeing that which you 'missed seeing', no? But there is no problem. We are still stuck on the path to _keval Gnan_ (absolute knowledge), nothing else. Only all these little things are responsible for creating obstacles in _keval Gnan_.

**Questioner:** Now there are two things in this. If Chandubhai's intellect were to interfere then it will interfere and 'I' (the Self) would know that.

**Dadashri:** If 'You' know, then 'You' are separate and Chandubhai is also separate. If You know then both are free and if You do not know (be the knower) then both are bound.

**Questioner:** So then there is no meaning of that interference caused by the intellect.

**Dadashri:** No meaning at all. There is no meaning of taking intellect into account at all. Due to one person's _udaya_ - _karma_ (unfolding of one's past _karma_ ) he gives this to that person and that person takes it due to his own _udaya_ - _karma_. Due to this person's _udayakarma_ he loaned five lakhs rupees to that person and that person borrowed money due to his own _udayakarma_. So then where is the question of interfering? Now when that person's _udayakarma_ comes into effect to pay back the money then he will pay it back and when this person's _udayakarma_ arises to receive it then he will receive it, he will not receive it otherwise.

**Questioner:** Then will it work even if he does not write an account-book?

**Dadashri:** Where is the need to write an account-book? All these are profound talks from the home of only the Tirthankara Lords!

**Questioner:** You said that, if You 'know' then Chandubhai is separate and You are also separate, both are separate. I did not understand that.

**Dadashri:** Why can't it be understood? Chandubhai became separate so You (the Self) are separate only. That one is dependent on _udayakarma_ only. Responsibility is not involved in the dependency on _udayakarma_.

**Questioner:** No, little confusion arises there. That one is dependent on _udayakarma_ ; so then who is 'that one'? Who is that, the one who is dependent on _udayakarma_?

**Dadashri:** That is Chandubhai - the non-Self.

**Questioner:** Dependent on _udayakarma_ is 'Chandubhai' and the knower is the 'Self'?

**Dadashri:** Yes. The Self or verily the _pragnya_ (the energy) of the Self.

**Questioner:** Now if the Self is the knower, then _pragnyashakti_ will not create interference, will it?

**Dadashri:** Chandubhai will create the interference within, if he is dependant on _udayakarma_. But if the 'Self' (the awakened one)' is not under the _jagruti_ of _pragnyashakti_ , then he becomes one with it. If the awareness is not there, then the interference ( _dakho_ ) will happen in it.

**Questioner:** Does _pragnya_ unite in it?

**Dadashri:** No. _Pragnya_ will not unite. _Pragnya_ will keep doing its work, but if there is no awakened awarenesss ( _jagruti_ ) then the intereference ( _dakho_ \- becoming one with the non-Self) arises. We can even know that this _dakho_ has occurred.

**Questioner:** If _pragnya_ is not in awareness ( _jagruti_ – awakened awareness of I am _Shuddhatma_ ) then who unites with Chandubhai? Who unites with Chandubhai's interference?

**Dadashri:** _Ajagruti_ (unawareness; I am Chandubhai). That means to not speak; to remain silent ( _maun_ ) is called interfering. To miss 'knowing' and 'seeing' is called remaining silent ( _maun_ ). Unawareness ( _ajagruti_ ) is interference ( _dakho_ ). Who else is going to unite? He ('I' with wrong belief 'I am Chandubhai'), will then even experience pleasure, that is why we can say that He become united (with Chandubhai), no?

**Questioner:** Who experiences the pleasure?

**Dadashri:** This, his discharge ego. Now if at that place had he remained as the 'seer'; then both would have become separated. This account is left pending for the next life; that balance still remains. The Tirthankaras are without any remaining balance. His balance remains. That will have to be divided again. There should not be any remaining balance.

**Questioner:** Are _udayakarma_ (the unfolding _karma_ effect) and Chandubhai separate? Because you said that Chandubhai will interfere in _udayakarma_ but 'we' - the Self \- should not get involved with that.

**Dadashri:** Chandubhai will interfere. It is the nature of _agnanta_ (ignorance) to create interfere in _udayakarma_ – unfolding _karma_ effect. Chandubhai means _agnanta_ , it is his nature to create interference. But if You 'know' that, then both are separate. In not 'knowing' that, one remains silent ( _maun_ ). And remaining silent means your signature got placed there (authorizing the interference).

**Questioner:** If we become absorbed; if we become one and remain silent then? Does that mean we become one with it?

**Dadashri:** Hey! Even when someone becomes openly angry and reprimands him, he does not know that he is doing anything wrong. So tell me, what major _udayakarma_ must be slipping away?

**Questioner:** Whatever interference is happening in _udayakarma_ , at that time if one remains silent ( _maun_ ) that means the endorsement has happened. We should not remain silent at that time, is that right?

**Dadashri:** Let it happen according to the way it is in _udayakarma_! There is nothing more left to do. From here on, all that is left is to 'know'. What is the meaning of silence? When _udayakarma_ are fighting with each other and You did not 'see', then 'You' remained silent. You did not apply _upayoga_ (focused awareness of the Self) so it went into _pramad_ (sheer spiritual apathy); that is _maun_ – remaining silent. Silence is spiritual apathy. Don't we need a 'balance' in hand for the next life! Will it work if we spend everything?

**Questioner:** And if he is not silent then how would it be?

**Dadashri:** Both will become separate. If Chandubhai is interfering with the other person, and we 'see' and 'know' it, then 'we – the Self' are free and separate and Chandubhai is free and separate. There is no reason for any _karma_ again for Chandubhai, and the same applies to 'us'.

**Questioner:** If there were no silence ( _maun_ ) then what would be there? What is the antonym for what You call _jagruti_ —awakened awareness?

**Dadashri:** _Ajagruti_. To remain silent is to be unaware; it is to be _ajagrut_. Lack of awareness is called _pramaad -_ spiritual apathy. _Jagruti_ means _apramatta_ — unveiled, undeluded.

## 'I' now functions in the awareness

**Questioner** : Who becomes engrossed ( _tanmayakar_ )?

**Dadashri** : The ego. That which does not allow the ego to become engrossed ( _tanmayakar_ ) is the awareness ( _jagruti_ ). _Jagruti_ keeps them separate. The main Atma, the absolute Self never becomes engrossed at all. You become engrossed in ignorance, do you not?

**Questioner** : The _pratisthit atma_ (I am Chandulal), after attaining the Gnan, will not become engrossed, if there is awareness?

**Dadashri** : Then, one has a certain awareness ( _bhaan_ ), it is a kind of awareness, and when that awareness comes into its nature ( _jagruti_ ), then it will not become _tanmayakar_ (become the mind body form). Because of the force of past _karma_ , it gets displaced. It will not become engrossed when the force of _karma_ becomes less. Whatever is discharging, it is the 'water in the tank' that is as stock of _karma_ from the past life.

**Questioner** : So what should I understand from that? You have said that 'You' do not become engrossed because of the awareness that has arisen. So how should I understand that?

**Dadashri** : What do I mean by 'You' here? Not the absolute Self. Currently the 'I' ( _hoon_ ) still exists. Previously 'I' used to be in the form of _pratisthit atma_ ('I am Chandulal'), now the 'I' exists as awareness (I am _Shuddhatma_ ). That 'I' does not become _tanmayakar_.

**Questioner** : I do not become _tanmayakar_ , does that mean that the _pratisthit atma_ does not become _tanmayakar_?

**Dadashri** : No, what do you mean by 'I' here? Whoever is present at that time. Whatever is in your belief at that time; it is that. You have not become absolute _Shuddhatma_. The _pratisthit atma_ is gone. Now the Self has been awakened and that awakened Self ( _jagrut atma_ ) is the awareness. That resulting awareness does not become engrossed.

**Questioner** : After attaining Gnan, the _pratishthit atma_ is there, so what does it do? What is its state?

**Dadashri** : It does not have any state, after that. It is in a discharge form. So it is _nischetan-chetan_ (lifeless life). It remains as _gneya_ (that which is to be known). And knowing 'what it does' and 'what it does not do', is awareness ( _jagruti_ ).

Before attaining the awareness of the Self, you used to believe that the _pratisthit atma_ is the knower ( _gnata_ ). After attaining the Gnan of the Self, that pratisthit atma itself becomes the known ( _gneya_ ), and that is where awareness ( _jagruti_ ) itself becomes the knower. So, before, 'I' was as the pratisthit atma, now 'I' is as awareness. And there is still the absolute Self beyond these two. When the awakened awareness becomes absolute awareness, then it becomes one with the absolute Self. It remains separate until it becomes absolute. Until then it remains as _antaratma_ (the Self within, interim government) Here, the state of the externalized vision ( _bahirmukhi_ ) has been left. When the _antaratma_ state comes to an end, one attains the _paramatma_ (absolute Self) state.

## The sign of not being _tanmayakar_

**Questioner** : When can one say that the self has not become _tanmayakar_ in the thoughts of the mind, circumstances of speech and in the conduct of the body? What kind of state is that?

**Dadashri** : When one is talking with someone, there should not be the slightest effect ( _asar_ ) within.

**Questioner** : When you say there is no effect; 'no effect' of what?

**Dadashri** : Changes that happen on the face. He talks as if he is separate. If he talks like he is talking about another person, that is considered not being _tanmayakar_ and He 'sees' Chandubhai as he talks. If You 'see' 'Chandubhai' as you talk, then the Self is separate.

## Even during worldly interactions, the Self is the knower

There is no need to keep the Self involved-engrossed in worldly things. It is all scientific circumstantial evidence. The body, mind and everything else come together and do the work in the worldly interactions and you reap the fruit of that. If you have _punyai_ (merit _karma_ ) working, then the fruit will be of profit, and if you have _paap_ (demerit _karma_ ) working, then you will reap the fruit of loss.

**Questioner** : So does that mean that I-the Self am not needed in carrying out the worldly interaction?

**Dadashri** : The Atma (Self) is not needed in that.

**Questioner** : So can the Self remain separate, remain in the awareness of Gnan?

**Dadashri** : Yes, it is possible, and the Self can remain separate. People take even the Self in it and waste time.

**Questioner** : There is no need to involve the Self in the worldly interaction.

**Dadashri** : The mind-body-speech will be in it for sure, and they are there even in a loss. Do people not say that how can _punyai_ bear fruit without doing anything? Hey you! If doing is what brings results, then why would anyone take a loss? So, this authority is of demerit ( _paap_ ) and merit ( _punyai_ ) _karma_. The 'doing' is just one of the associated evidences in it.

**Questioner** : Actions are all going on to reap the fruit of _paap_ and _punyai_ (demrit and merit _karma_ ) _._

**Dadashri** : All circumstances come together.

**Questioner** : Whenever work comes along, first there is awareness and then it all goes away, and then I have to be get fully involved in that work. Then when it is over, again the talk about Gnan starts...

**Dadashri** : The Self does not get involved in that.

**Questioner** : So, how do I maintain the awareness there?

**Dadashri** : That is awareness of the ego and the intellect.

**Questioner:** That means that without the involvement of the ego and the intellect, the work will not get done.

**Dadashri** : It is the _buddhi_ (intellect) that gets involved in it. One feels in the mind that 'I got involved' and therefore there is an effect ( _asar_ ).

**Questioner** : So what should be there, then?

**Dadashri** : There You have to remain the knower that the intellect has become involved and everything is moving along. The knower who knows what happened, good or bad, is the Self. One will say 'I became engrossed'; so who is the one that knows of the good or the bad that happened?

**Questioner** : That is correct. So, he was the knower all the time during the _vyavahar_ (interaction).

**Dadashri** : The one who remains the knower is verily the Self. The one that became involved is not the Self.

**Questioner** : It seems like it became involved.

**Dadashri** : It is the intellect ( _buddhi_ ) and the ego that do that.

**Questioner** : So should I understand for once and for all, that really, I am not the one that gets involved or enters into that interaction?

**Dadashri** : That is exactly what You have to understand. Because later if asked, 'did it turn out good or not?' You will say, 'it turned out fine!' The one that gets involved cannot know. He, the ego-intellect complex, cannot know whether what happened was fine or not.

**Questioner** : But the _vyavahar_ (worldly interaction) that is going on at that moment, and to have such awareness at that moment, do they both happen at the same moment, or is there is a time interval between the two?

**Dadashri** : They happen at the same time, there is no interval between the two. There is a difference just in one's belief. Even if there is a difference in the belief, ask who is the one who 'knows' all that? The One who knows is the Self and not the one who got involved. The one who became one with the _vyavahar_ is not the Self. The Self can never become the ego; it remains as the knower, does it not? It remains separate as the knower. If You feel that you became involved in it, then you should do _pratikraman_ that, 'I made a mistake', and come back into the Self again. The Self does not get involved. It is that old habit that still continues.

**Questioner** : So we just have to change the understanding according to what You say, however, the _vyavahar_ is happening.

**Dadashri** : It is happening indeed.

**Questioner** : Do I have to continue to arrange the setting so that there is no error in understanding?

**Dadashri** : The one who got involved is not I. I am separate and the one who got involved is separate.

The self (atma) of those in the _kramik_ path is the sufferer ( _vedak_ ), and the Self in Akram is not the sufferer ( _nirveda_ ). There one will say that his self becomes engrossed whereas here we are the knower of whether there is _shata_ (pleasure) or _ashata_ (pain). So, in the _kramik_ path, the sufferer becomes involved and so they will say, 'my atma got involved'. There, the seeker will not let it become involved, through the ego.

**Questioner** : If they would 'not let it', would that not disturb the _vyavahar_?

**Dadashri** : _Vyavahar_ will be disturbed, but they gradually let go of the _vyavahar_ , they proceed by gradually renouncing. In our path, the reason we have been given the freedom to continue worldly interactions ( _vyavahar_ ) is because the Self is not the sufferer. In the _kramik_ path, they say that they themselves are the one suffering ( _vedak_ ). That is because they have not attained complete knowledge (Gnan). They have not become the Self completely. The Self, when attained completely is _nirvedak_ (beyond pain and suffering).

**Questioner** : The absolute Self is complete, is it not? But one does not have that complete vision ( _drashti_ ) in the _kramik_ path; is that what you are saying?

Dadashri: Yes, the Self is complete for sure, but such vision has not arisen for him in the _kramik_ path. It will happen, step ( _kram_ ) by step ( _kram_ ). As one lets go, such a vision will blossom. As the acquisitiveness ( _parigraha_ ) decreases, the vision will continue to blossom.

**Questioner** : For the people in the _kramik_ path, do their _parigraha_ or _vyavahar_ worldly interaction decrease, because they have such a firm decision ( _nischaya_ ) or is it that they have brought such unfolding _karma_?

**Dadashri** : Their _nischaya_ is such.

**Questioner** : When the _vyavahar_ decreases, is it more beneficial to the awareness?

**Dadashri** : Yes.

**Questioner** : Does awareness increase at all with that?

**Dadashri** : Yes. But for them, they have _agrasoch_ (worries about the future). It is in this Akram Vignan, that everyone knows about the Self, otherwise how would they know of it? No one would believe it either!

**Questioner** : So is it not possible for them to attain the absolute Self?

**Dadashri** : When they attain it, one is a Tirthankara or a _kevali_ (absolute Knowledge) and so they will go away to _moksha_ and so they do not have any time to talk.

# [1.5] Seat selection of the Self and the non-Self

## The price of sitting on the wrong seat

**Questioner** : Dada, what Chandubhai wants to do, rather than what Chandubhai should do, are two different things. Say, for example, Chandubhai wants to go see a movie but many guests have come to his home. Then he should stay at home; he knows this. But his sincerity is not there. So how can he bring sincerity into this?

**Dadashri** : 'You' hold Your patience and keep 'seeing' what happens. That is good enough. Then complete sincerity is there.

**Questioner** : But Chandubhai is like that; he would indeed 'stick' his hand in the fire.

**Dadashri** : No, even then You should 'see' to what extent and for how long Chandubhai puts his hand in it, this much or that much – You should see that. 'You' are clear; I have placed You on a clearance seat. Why are You becoming 'unclear'? Which internal place (seat) are You taking? Are You taking Your reserved seat? Are You sitting in the place where Your reservation is or are you in an unreserved place? Chandubhai is very fond of taking the unreserved seat. That is his fondness. He is fond of sitting on the seat, which is not his.

**Questioner** : How is one to avoid sitting in that other seat, which has become a routine, and how can one adhere to the seat of the Self? This means one enters the realm of doer ship time and again.

**Dadashri** : If You sit on that other seat and feel a 'shock', then know that it is not Your seat. You should get up when You feel the shock. The seat, which shocks, is not Yours.

**Questioner** : He feels the shock but he does not get up from there, how can he get up? Also he cannot remain as the knower-seer ( _gnata-drashta_ ). So how can one remain the _gnata-drashta_?

**Dadashri** : He does not get up, but You do 'see' that, don't You? The one who does not get up – that is not You. One entity is Chandubhai and one is You, the Self. The one who does not get up is Chandubhai. You should say to Chandubhai, 'continue sleeping; sit if you want to, if you like it! I will continue 'seeing' and you remain seated!' There should be a solution, no? **Questioner** : So do I need to keep on making notes ( _nondha_ ) of everything that happens?

**Dadashri** : You have to 'see' all the actions ( _kriya_ ). If he keeps complaining then You need to see that too that, 'this too is not my Self'. Such is this Gnan of Dada. There is no one up there; there is no boss or a superior over You. The superior of all superiors is Dada Bhagwan, the Lord within. **Questioner** : So the one who does the complaining and grumbling – which part is that? **Dadashri** : It is another part. It is the part of Chandubhai. **Questioner** : So the one who does the grumbling - do I need to 'see' that too?

**Dadashri** : That too You need to see.

**Questioner** : So the One who sees this, does He not speak anything at all? He simply 'sees' ( _joovey_ )?

**Dadashri** : There is no boss over the One who 'sees.' No one is there to scold Him; nothing is there. Infinite energies are lying there. But you are protecting Chandubhai, so all the energies remain veiled. You are protecting Chandubhai, and you are doing it openly, no? That is why energies do not blossom. Also, if One lives in the Agnas, then _samadhi_ **(** a state in which no situation in the relative world affects the inner bliss) will not leave. You sit on Your seat and Chandubhai will keep sitting on his. The trouble is that you are trying to sit on Chandubhai's seat! You have this previous habit, true?

You should move from outside and sit in Your seat. Now which is Your seat? There are four to five kinds of seats inside. Which one is Your seat? It is the one where You feel completely easy; that is Your seat. If you feel the slightest conflict, then 'know' that You are on the wrong seat. If it pricks you or if you feel a shock, then You should know that you got shocked. Instead of sitting on any of those seats, You should sit on Your seat.

Someone may praise you, 'Chandubhai, you are very competent; a very nice man.' Just because he 'spreads on the butter thick', should You succumb to it? No. You should say,' That seat is not Mine. Dada has moved Me from there.' The belief 'I am Chandubhai,' is verily the reason why you have taken so much beating.

Any suffering ( _bhogvato_ ) felt is the sign that you are on the wrong seat; You are not in Your own seat. You should get up from there and take the seat of _Shuddhatma_ **,** pure Soul. You should sit on Your seat but you remain seated in the other seat persistently. If the slightest wrong thought arises in the mind, You should know immediately that you are on the wrong seat and that You are not on Your seat. You should go to Your seat immediately. But you do remain seated for a long time, don't you? **Questioner** : Yes, Dada. It happens like that. **Dadashri** : That is why your face looks puzzled and worried. I wondered, 'Why does this face look puzzled and worried?' If any difficulty arises, then You should go on Your seat immediately. Where mistakes have occured, you should ask for forgiveness.

This world is not for You to become entangled anywhere. Where the slightest puzzle or confusion arises, or if anything happens within the body, know that you are on the wrong seat, get off and come back to Your own seat. Thereafter, keep 'seeing' everything. Say, 'Chandubhai, why are you getting entangled and stressed?'

## Ultimately occupy the seat of the Absolute Self

'I am this, I am that, I am an _updeshak_ (giver of spiritual understanding), I am so and so', that is all gone and you have come into, 'I am the Self'. You have left all those other seats. When you sit on any other seat, the Self will be left out for sure, will it not?

You will eventually have to get up from where you are sitting. 'We' would even make Chadubhai seat and say 'now Chandubhai can do this or he can do that'. If he remains seated in that seat, we will prod ( _godo_ ) him. Every seat has to be sat upon but then he has to get up from it. But, if he feels comfortable there; when he remains seated there for a few days, 'we' prod him to move him. He has to get up and come here, in the Self. But he has to sit on every seat, systematically, and then come here. What happens if he keeps sitting there? I will have problem, will I not? He will not reach his destination (the Self) will he? And that ( _moksha_ ) will be missed. So this whole process is very contrary and topsy-turvy. 'We' would seat Chandubhai here today, then two days later, make him get up. Eventually he has to sit in the Self. And externally, he has to say, 'I do not know anything.' Till then he has to remain in that skill and ability, he has to sit on that seat. Then he has to say, 'I do not know anything'. Otherwise, he cannot sit on the stage if he does not have the skill and knowledge ( _avdat_ ). Chandubhai may think that he is capable of explaining everything; so then he cannot sit there. And without sitting there, there is no solution. Therefore, 'we' first encourage him but then we prod him and make him get up. This way he will go to _moksha_. It is not an easy thing. These are great dangers, but there is no problem after attaining this Gnan. This will avoid unnecessary pain.

Then he will understand that it is good that he was made to get up. We then sit him some other place. 'We' do the same thing again. Then as 'we' run out of chairs, 'we' tell him to sit down here (the Self), and that all the chairs on the outside are wrong.

**Questioner** : Dada, sit us there from the start, so then there will not be any problem.

**Dadashri** : No, that cannot be done from the beginning. One has to experience every seat. One has to gain that experience. Otherwise, having come into the Self, he will feel, 'I will go and experience that other seat and enjoy it.' But, if he comes into the Self, having experienced and enjoyed all the other seats, there will not be any problem, will there?

**Questioner** : That is true. One has to acquire the experience.

**Dadashri** : One has to experience that. Having gone through all the experiences, I said, 'I do not know anything.'

**Questioner** : And why don't I start saying that just that?

**Dadashri** : That will not work. Can it work like that? What happens if you let go of this, without attaining that other (Self)? That has to be attained first, and on the other side everything is coming closer to completion. But it is when this becomes complete; then the other will become complete. It is worth understanding this subtle thing. When You sit around Me here, everything will rise.

**Questioner** : Dada, I have given to You my all, so You may do whatever you chose. Seat me wherever You want, and make me get up from wherever You want. Do whatever You want to Dada.

**Dadashri** : Yes. That is all. There is not a problem for the one who has surrendered. Whenever you have surrendered, he will make you get up and make you sit down, get up and sit down.

If you have not surrendered, then 'we' have to do something. Then the young man will come, but he will at least come. He has attained the Self once, has he not? He will not let go of it again. If he cannot find this path, he will get entangled and stressed in this way and in that way, slowly he will find the way.

## Awareness is not dependent upon _vyavasthit_

Will you make everything proper from within or will you remain the same, and keep wandering aimlessly?

**Questioner** : I have to resolve it, and get it right.

**Dadashri** : When it burns yet even more, then you will scream, 'I cannot bear it.' Hey you! Can You not bear it, or can Chandubhai cannot bear it. 'You' are the knower. Don't sit on that other seat. If you cannot bear it, then you are still sitting in the other seat, are you not?

**Questioner** : It is exact, exactly like that.

**Dadashri** : He will say, 'I cannot bear it'. You are sitting in that seat (of 'Chandubhai'; of non-Self). Sit here (in the Self).You must have made him get up from that seat ('Chandubhai') a hundred times and yet he goes back and sits there. Then some day again when You make him get up, he will go back and sit there.

**Questioner** : It burns on this side, and He (Self) remains separate; is remaining separate under the control of _vyavasthit_?

**Dadashri** : No, no. How can it be under the control of _vyavasthit_? _Vyavasthit_ makes him sit on the otherside (in Chandubhai; non-Self), and _purushartha_ (living in the five Agnas) makes Him sit on this side (in the Self). _Vyavasthit_ will only take him on that side.

**Questioner** : Why is that?

**Dadashri** : _Vyavasthit_ is associated with the _pudgal_ (non-Self complex), not the Self. So if one goes there (becomes 'Chandubhai'), then he is under the control of _vyavasthit_. If He remains here (in the Self), then He is not under _vyavasthit_ 's control. He is independent.

**Questioner** : Dada this is _antar_ _tapa_ (inner penance), is it not?

**Dadashri** : Yes. If during _antar_ _tapa_ , he becomes one with it, then he is under the control of _vyavasthit_ , and if does not become one, if he remains separate through my _vachanbud_ (power and energy of words), then he is not under _vyavasthit_ 's control.

**Questioner** : So, becoming one (with Chandubhai) or the penance (penance of keeping Chandubhai and Self separate), which of these two is under _vyavasthit_ 's control.

**Dadashri** : No, coming together and becoming one is itself _vyavasthit_. _Vyavasthit_ was like this, and then separation was made through _purushartha_ , and this penance is a result of that. Penance of overcoming _vyavasthit_ is experienced day and night and You can be in bliss.

Have I not said that You have attained the best state? Your work will be done if it keeps burning. It will burn to ashes, the entire garbage of _karma_ , will it not? So whichever seat you sit on, when you do not experience any pain, then know that this is Your seat (of the Self). No one will sit on the seat that gives him pain ( _dukha_ ), will he? Some seats may burn you less and some may burn you more, some may give you a shock. You should quickly get up from there. There are four or five seats within you. I have explained everything to him, then he even used to sit on it, but then I would make him get up again. Do you now know that you are in the wrong seat and that you sat there in error?

**Questioner** : Dada, I do know that.

**Dadashri** : If you still know, then there is a hope for change. How can you have a solution for it, if you cannot even know it? Right now, if I cannot hear what you are talking about then what do I have to do with it? What good does that do for me?

When you sit in the relative, would you not immediately feel the shock? So then you should immediately get up from there and sit in _Shuddhatma_ 's seat. Therefore learn to know the nature of the seat. One keeps sitting where it gives him a shock, and then he complains, 'Dada, I feel within...'. You fool! Why don't you get up from there, and sit in Your own seat (Self)? I have separated the real and relative for You; that 'this is Your seat' and 'that is his (Chandulal's) seat'.

**Questioner** : In the relative seat, the shock is not strong enough and so I do not know it. So I remain seated on it.

**Dadashri** : Yes, it tastes sweet, but it is still cutting your tongue. So if honey is placed on the sharp edge of a sword, it will taste sweet when you lick it, but it will cut your tongue at the same time. It will sting but at the same time, it tastes sweet so both these things are going on simultaneously.

**Questioner** : Dada, I feel a shock from the relative seat, sometimes it makes me get up suddenly, and I think of Dada.

**Dadashri** : Yes, but when that happens, it helps you get up from that seat, does it not? You had a desire to get up, did you not? But, the one who knows the nature of Self will immediately know that 'this is not that' and that he made a mistake. When you get an electrical shock if you touch a live wire, you will say, 'Be careful there, do not touch it.' Similarly, You should give warning here also. The current of four hundred volts will kill you once, but this will kill you for infinite lives. Therefore, keep a huge warning sign here, if You have attained the Self. Otherwise, it is not worth telling anyone on the outside. You know both, the relative seat as well as the real seat, so You can say that. There is no point in saying anything to anyone on the outside.

## There may be sweetness in the non-Self seat but...

**Questioner** : So I am not to go to the seat of 'I-ness' ( _potapanu_ ). Should that be the constant awareness?

**Dadashri** : One remains seated in that seat even when he gets prodded ( _godo_ ) to move from there, or even when he gets a shock from the inside. Does he take his hand away when he gets an electric shock?

**Questioner** : He pulls his hand away.

**Dadashri** : Why does he do that? He will say, 'I got a shock.' Similarly, You get a shock in this seat. Would you know that or not?

**Questioner** : It gives a shock. One will pull away immediately from there, but when one experiences pleasure, that is when he sits longer. But, because the seat does not belong to him, he may experience a shock, or he may experience pleasure.

**Dadashri** : There will be sweetness, but he is bound to be shocked. Generally, men will definitely be shocked, women will not. Women will remain where they experience sweetness. Shocks do not produce any effect on women. They are not alerted by the effect, they do not know it.

**Questioner** : Otherwise, it is full of shock.

**Dadashri** : That contains shock and this contains shock too. That shock has effect on men in certain cases; some have a lesser shock like women. And if they are like women in their nature, then they will not know the shock.

This is all a problem. Before Gnan, 'we' could not bear it even for a second. The 'I-ness' ( _potapanu_ ) went away the very day Gnan manifested!

**Questioner** : You got rid of 'I-ness' ( _potapanu_ ) after you attained Gnan.

**Dadashri** : It cannot be rid of. Why would I get rid of? It happened on its own.

**Questioner** : When You sat in Your seat, then all the rest went away on its own.

**Dadashri** : I never sat in it. I had just gone there for a little rest. I told the man sitting with me, 'You go and wash the dishes of _choviar_ (supper before sunset). I had done the _choviar_ in the train. It happened on its own. People asked me how it happened, by what method. I told them, 'Is this some kind of a math? This is but natural. This is an effect, not a cause.

**Questioner** : You say that, before attaining Gnan, you could not bear the'I-ness' ( _potapanu_ ), not even for a second. That seat...

**Dadashri** : That all went away upon attaining the Gnan. I could not bear the 'I-ness' ( _potapanu_ ) at all, not even for a second. Whether it be pleasure ( _sukha_ ) or pain ( _dukha_ ), they all seemed bitter like poison. Only I alone knew that it all tasted bitter to me. Only Hiraba knew that I felt that way.

**Questioner** : Having found the seat of the Self, all that other burning stopped.

**Dadashri** : Mine went away naturally. I did not have to look for any short comings, any errors of the non-Self, at all. People would ask, 'Dada, then how did all this happen? Does this look like some kind of a math? It will put you straight in it, through the Akram Vignan, none of this _kram_ (step by step). You will be able to do that, will You not?

When can you say that You are in Your own seat? It is when You remain in the five Agnas exactly.

**Questioner** : When one follows them, then One is said to have come into his own seat.

**Dadashri** : These Agnas are verily the seat of the Self, and the moment you go away from the Agnas, you are in that other seat; this seat is easy and that other is uneasy. If you go even a little bit in the uneasy seat, you will experience a shock. You pull away immediately when you get a shock. This young man here does understand the shock. He has had a habit of getting used to the shocks until now, has he not? What did he have the habit of?

**Questioner** : It is that shock which he believed to be correct.

**Dadashri** : He was so soft and sensitive, that he could not bear even the slightest pain. When I told him about the wrong seat, he immediately began to get up. He could not bear My physical absence at all. So I told him to remain in this, and so he started doing that.

**Questioner** : When one does not come back to his own seat, does that mean that until then he is in that other seat (of Chandubhai)? Is that correct?

**Dadashri** : You do not have to look for that, it is automatically there. Nature will make him sit there, will it not? You do not have to see to that. It will sit you there, whether you like it or not, you are sitting there only.

**Questioner** : But one should get up from there and sit in his own seat.

**Dadashri** : This is _purushartha_ and that other is _vyavasthit_. You will need _nischaya_ (I am pure Soul), and the _vyavahar_ is there anyway, in _vyavasthit_. And for those, for whom the disctinction between _vyavahar_ and _nischaya_ has not been made, for them this is _vyavahar_ and this is _nischaya_. For us there is no _vyavahar-nischaya_. And for the one who has not taken the Gnan Vidhi, and thereby the distinction of _vyavahar_ - _nischaya_ has happened, for him, this is _vyavahar_ and this is _nischaya_. For us (Akram Vignan _mahatmas_ ), there is no _nischaya_ - _vyavahar_. For us, it is just _nischaya_ (the Self). We should be [only] concerned with the 'town' ( _moksha_ ) we are going to; why should we worry about anything else? And you are saying that you will have to take care of the _vyavahar_ (worldly interactions)?

**Questioner** : No, I do not have to take care of it, but that _vyavahar_ is going to happen on its own, is it not?

**Dadashri** : It will continue to happen. Even if you do not like it now, it will continue to happen. You have created the causes, so will the effects refrain from coming? When you have taken an exam, pass or fail, you are bound to get the result, are you not? Do you have any choice?

**Questioner** : So, after one moves away from that seat, even then _vyavahar_ continues on that other side.

**Dadashri** : It will continue afterwards, you just have to move away from there. On the contrary, because one does not move away, it gets ruined.

**Questioner** : So, does it mean that one seat is there and another seat is here? If I sit in this seat, then the other remains empty on the other side, is that how it is?

**Dadashri** : That other one will remain. You have no choice; nature will make you sit there, even when you do not wish to.

**Questioner** : So one has to do _purushartha_ to get up from there.

**Dadashri** : Yes. _Vyavasthit_ is going to make you sit there regardless of whether there is going to be pleasure or pain. Therfore, You should know it, the moment it touches the seat, that this is not Your seat. There should not be any uneasiness at all, it should be easy. Do you understand what I am trying to say?

## The One understanding the Gnan is separate and You are separate

**Questioner** : I liked it very much, Dada.

**Dadashri** : Was there any entanglement anywhere?

**Questioner** : Not at all, it cleared up a lot.

**Dadashri** : It cleared up whatever entanglement there was, did it not? Keep that in Your awareness ( _khyal_ ) now.

**Questioner** : Yes.

**Dadashri** : _Khyal rakhajo -_ keep that in awareness! The listener is separate, the one who does not keep the awareness is separate, and You are separate. That is why 'we' say this; that keep this in awareness ( _khyal_ ). Because 'we' know what lies ahead as to who is the One 'saying' all this. And You do not have to get into such details. You just do what Dada tells You to do. You (Self) have to tell, 'Chandubhai', 'I will 'see' and you continue to do what Dada tells you.' Instead of telling him 'You be aware', tell him, 'Keep the awareness about what Dada says'.

Your knowledge (gnan) that used to create entanglements has been removed. You tell 'Chandubhai', 'keep that awareness'. Then one will ask 'who is the one saying that?' Will such a question arise or not?

So would he not ask from within, who is asking? You will say, 'I am'. But who is this 'I'? Therefore, this Dada says that there is no problem in that. Get rid of it in the name of Dada. The responsibility is on Dada's head. But, Dada himself understands the responsibility and so he makes the separation and then he speaks. Do you understand that? It seems that what I am saying is not reaching you.

**Questioner** : I do understand, Dada.

**Dadashri** : All of it? You are not smiling. One would smile if he understood it.

**Questioner** : So, I am seeing within what you are saying. I was checking to see whether I understood or not?

**Dadashri** : Did you understand?

**Questioner** : Yes, I understood, Dada.

**Dadashri** : The one who understood is separate, and You are separate.

**Questioner** : Yes, that has to be 'seen' too. The one who understood is not 'I' (Self) also, Dada.

**Dadashri** : When one takes that as a 'full stop', then what will become of him?

**Questioner** : He will suffer a lot, Dada.

**Dadashri** : 'You' (the Self) are the 'seer' of all this.

**Questioner** : Therefore, eventually we have to subtract all this, 'This is not I, this is not I, this is not I.' So then I have kept a balance that by saying, 'This is not my seat' I move away from there. And, then immediately I get back in My seat, which is of the knower.

**Dadashri** : So, if you experience bliss during that time, then know that You are on the right track.

# [1.6] The Self tells off the self

## We need oneness in the home

The Self has been awakened; that is all that is needed. Has yours been awakened?

**Questioner** : Yes.

**Dadashri** : Very well. Now first and foremost, no conflicts or quarrels should remain in the home. That is because You have become pure Soul ( _Shuddhatma_ ) and 'Chandubhai' (non-Self) is separate. If 'Chandubhai' is getting irritated with the wife, then You should tell 'Chandubhai', 'why are you doing this? All your life you have done only this!' You have to scold him. If you scold anyone else, it will create quarrels and so you should scold only 'Chandubhai' . Will You be comfortable doing this? Tell 'Chandubhai', 'why are you doing this? In this home, we are one family!'

If he does something wrong, then you have to reprimand him. Pat him on his back and also reprimand him. But also give him a pat on his back and tell him, 'I am with you'. In doing this, everything will be settled.

What you are currently doing is difficult whereas if You do it methodically in this way, everything is easy. What you are doing creates entanglements. You have done that many times. Now just leave that entanglement alone. Entanglements are difficult.

If at times he creates a lot of entanglements, then You have to reprimand him, 'Chandubhai why are you misbehaving like this? Are these considered good qualites? Why are you doing this?' But we have no control, do we? You (the Self) have become separate. You (Self) are knower-seer ( _gnata_ - _drashta_ ). You simply give advice as a neighbor. You no longer have the ownership, do You? You would only have the responsibility if You had the ownership, would You not? Here there is "no responsibility!" Whatever Chandubhai does, that is not Your responsibililty; that is the way in which You have been given this Knowledge (Gnan).

## Reprimand yourself strongly

This part is that of the _Shuddhatma_ (pure Soul). Then are You acquainted with the part that is of Chandubhai? Who comes in that part? Is file number one not in it? Then are you able to tell what kind of baggage has been stored in file one?

**Questioner** : Yes I can tell.

**Dadashri** : Is that so? So that baggage belongs to the body complex ( _pudgal_ ). Go and sit outside for a quarter of an hour and tell him, 'Chandubhai, you are useless, worthless, a rogue, you are cunning, you do wrong.' Go and say all these things to him for a quarter of an hour; the Self is completely separate. This is our Agna. But You should know which part you are reprimanding otherwise you will end up reprimanding the wrong part.

You asked for bliss. This bliss is more than what you had asked for. If You do it for fifteen minutes, then do it for fifteen, if You do it for fifty minutes, then it is all right too. But You have to say it loud enough for the ears to hear. If not, then go to the terrace and say it aloud.

## Progress made with the conviction of one's own faults

**Questioner** : You gave instructions about saying it aloud, but I should feel convinced that 'I am a rogue' and all other things, should I not? Dada you said to say this for an hour but until I am convinced of it, is there any point in saying it mechanically?

**Dadashri** : You are not convinced?

**Questioner** : I feel that 'I am good'.

**Dadashri** : No, but what do people say behind your back, that this man...

**Questioner** : They do not call me a rogue, or worthless.

**Dadashri** : So would they call you a God?

**Questioner** : No they would not call me a God either.

**Dadashri** : So then what would they call you? They would not say that you are a God, or that you are a rogue, so then what would they call you? Would people not give you a degree as they see fit?

**Questioner** : No they would not. People know that I do not do anything that is roguish or worthless.

**Dadashri** : People are not bothered about knowing anything, are they? What would happen if you tell all these people sitting here, to go outside and you remain seated inside? They will say, 'he is a rogue, he is a worthless man'; You have no idea of what the world says. I know right away what people are saying.

**Questioner** : Dada if I can know this then it would be fun doing it. Otherwise I would end up saying it mechanically and it would not bring about that much of a change.

**Dadashri** : That is fine. You are correct but 'we' get to hear about what people say. Because people give opinions according to what suits them, do they not? Is there a written rule that says, 'give only this opinion'?

Hey, they even give opinions about me. Not even for a minute do I live in the worldly life, but even then they say 'he is shameless'. I even know what they are saying. So I too had told Ambalal 'you are shameless, _mooah_ (the dying one)! People are saying it too.' Should I not say that to him?'

**Questioner** : I have to tell him (Chandubhai) what people are saying.

**Dadashri** :Yes. That is why 'we' teach you all this. Even if he does this keeping faith in 'our' words, there would be no problem.

**Questioner** : No Dada. I have faith in your words and I do what you say, but would it not make a big difference if I did it with a conviction?

**Dadashri** : Yes I like what you say. But now do you feel that, 'I am shameless?'

**Questioner** : Now that you have explained it, I understand it.

**Dadashri** : Yes. 'We' too tell Ambalal, 'you are worthless, you are shameless, you are cunning', we say all those kinds of things to him. Then shamelessness will leave, cunningness will leave. Will it go otherwise? Having fed it milk, we bring up the snake and now the rascal is attacking us? Yes, should you not say at least this much? Should we not pull out its teeth?

**Questioner** : We can even kill it.

**Dadashri** : Then you have to extract its venom and then keep it around. Its teeth should be removed. Because it will hurt itself as well as hurt you; it will hurt both. Then you do not have to kill it, only settle ( _nikaal_ ) with equanimity. You have given rise to it yourself, have you not? Therefore You have to discharge it with equanimity but before that you have to remove its 'teeth'. Then if you give it milk, the poison is not going to reach there.

Now are You convinced? Now that You are convinced, go for an hour and do it. And do it so that 'Chandubhai' can hear it well enough. All those sitting within will hear it and tell them from the beginning, 'Hey you all non-Self complex supporters ( _pudgal pakshi_ ), hey all you opposers! Hey you ego, Hey you mind, Hey you _chit_ – all of you, listen here. Hey you all five senses; senses of action, and senses of sensory reception, the mind (being the eleventh entity), listen here. Oh you liars, you rogues listen here!' Then you can disgrace the entire party of the relative self. 'You have hurt Me'. Go quickly, a wonderful solution has emerged. You are very ( _punyaishadi_ ) bearer of merit karma effect; you are very _punyaishadi_! It is the best medicine. Right now he will do it for an hour; it is the best medicine.

'We' used to even say things like, 'you worthless one, you rogue, vacate this home and leave!' Then later, 'we' will let them stay. Then they will say, 'sir, we are under your authority!' So 'we' will say, 'you may stay'. 'We' are not _himsak_ (violent). We are _ahimsak-himsak_ (in this manner). We would not hurt him or hurt the Self.

Now will you scold and thrash him? Let him have it. You must have understood something. Some other judge would not say anything. Everyone judges only according to what he gets paid. The 'lawyers' will speak only that which is beneficial to their case. Who would speak so openly?

**Questioner** : No one would.

**Dadashri** : The scripture writers are the experienced ones; what have they said? Every living being is drinking poison in order to live. They want to live longer but they are drinking poison. How would they know that? Has anyone taken poison?

**Questioner** : That is what we ( _mahatmas_ ) used to drink. We used to do hurtful things and on top of that we used to be egoistic about it.

**Dadashri** : Now go back and recall all the bad deeds and repair them, 'you have done only these kinds of _karma_ till now, I know all that'. Say this. 'What _karma_ have you not done? – tell Me that'

**Questioner** : That too Dada, instead of the fifteen-twenty minutes, now it is happening for four to six hours; there is tremendous joy in it. Everything is beginning to clean up.

**Dadashri** : Yes, but only if you do what I tell you.

**Questioner** : I will do it Dada.

**Dadashri** : Tell him, 'is there any wrong you have not done? This world is good that it still calls you a good man; the world is good'. They will say 'good' as long as it is all kept covered up. What will you gain if you keep covering it up? Instead why don't you bring it out in the open? Then we will see to it. People keep their reputation by hiding everything, but what good is it? Reputation is that which remains even if you were stripped off verything, including your clothes. Then it is true reputation ( _aabaroo_ ). If someone were to take off Dada's clothes on the way, what would Dada do?

**Questioner** : He would not do anything; what does Dada have to do?

**Dadashri** : No, if he is a _mahatma_ , he will keep doing _darshan_ and others would laugh. Then even I would laugh. Because the naked one you are seeing, I too see him. I too would find it amusing and tell him, 'what has become of you?! Just look, whatever little reputation the clothes served to cover up, has been taken away!'

## The amazing result of the censuring _samayik_

One man told me, 'I have done such a bad thing that I cannot forget it.' Now this is a person who has taken Gnan and cannot forget about it and it keeps bothering him inside. What is all that? I asked him, 'you feel like this even though I have given you Gnan?' So he said, 'this is what is happening to me. I am telling you what is truly happening to me.' I told him, 'go to the terrace and tell your file one'. So he asked, 'what do I have to say?' I told him, say, 'hey you! You are useless, you are a rogue, you are cunning and shrewd, you are a thief' – scold him really well for half an hour. Reprimand the one who is at fault. Go ahead and reprimand him and if he does not listen, then it is my responsibility.' It got cured! It got cured just in that one time.

If he does not shape up, then scold him. That is what I told him. So what did he do when he went up to the terrace? He started a severe scolding process, just like he would scold someone else, then he scolded him even more. So the file would cry and He would 'see'. He cried a lot. He cried intensely and he kept 'seeing' him. People passing by started to wonder, 'who is fighting? Who is scolding this man?' Then he became very good.

**Questioner** : Now I do scold him heavily; I am able to know before and after the scolding. So I feel that 'This does not suit Chandubhai', but it happens again.

**Dadashri** : When it happens, it is another layer. A thousand such layers will come and some people will have only two layers but you have to scold him. When You scold him heavily ( _thapko_ ), You are separate and so is he. That is what You experience. And You should reprimand him for sure. And those layers will keep coming. Because they are there, they will come, no? How would they come if they were not there? So the stickier it is, the greater the number of layers there will be. So you have to tell him off, 'why are you doing such things?' You, _Shuddhatma_ should tell 'Chandubhai', 'What is it about that you have become so ego intoxicated ( _rof_ ) that you are sulking and creating so much non-communicative stress ( _rees_ )?' You should scold Chandubhai. You are _Shuddhatma_ ; what concern is it of Yours?

That other man did the heavy scolding and he was also crying. But even then he said, 'even if you cry now, I will not be convinced by you. I will not leave you alone'. So then his mistakes all went away. He scolded him so much that he started to cry. You (the Self) have to say a few words to him ('Chandubhai').

**Questioner** : If one does not pay attention then he will behave that way only.

**Dadashri** : Not attention, if you let the mind have its way, it will go in the wrong direction. So it will not work if someone else does the scolding, You have to scold your file number one. This Akram Vignan is not a path of reprimand; 'we' would not reprimand in this way, would we? When do we ever scold anyone? And whom would we scold? You are _Shuddhatma_ , 'we' cannot tell You off. That is why You have to scold Chandubhai, then 'we' would not have to do it.

**Questioner** : Why is it that we do not feel like scolding? If someone else were to make a mistake, it is easy for us to scold him.

**Dadashri** : It is because you do not know about it; you would do it if you knew. One does what one learns by seeing others. Here that man was glaring with angry eyes and telling him off. So he started to cry.

**Questioner** : This process of scolding is wonderful.

**Dadashri** : You should not scold him too much. You should ask [Dada's permission] 'us' before you scold him. Not everyone needs to scold their file number one. It would be necessary for someone like him. He has a firm determination to do so. So he will be able to come out of everything; that is what he is like. Everyone will be able to come out of it; they will find the way.

The scolder is scolding and the crier is crying. It is a great wonder, is it not? Then I told others, don't scold in this way. Don't do it without asking me first. You should only do it if 'we' give the Agna. Doing it otherwise is dangerous. There is no telling what kind of mixed claim this 65 year old lawyer will end up making with his intellect laden scolding!

**Questioner** : Dada that gentleman came here and he was saying that his file number one is so scared now that he is not doing anything wrong.

**Dadashri** : Yes, he will get scared, will he not? He has never had anyone to scold him and those that do scold him; he makes claims against them. If the Gnani _Purush_ were to scold him, he would go away from here; he would walk away from everything that is beneficial to him. Therefore You have to do it Yourself; then where is he going to go?

**Questioner** : Dada that is exactly the way it is with all the prominent people. There is no one who will scold them or say anything to them.

**Dadashri** : There is no one to tell them. That is true. So we need someone over us to tell us. For him, when he did the scolding, all within his file, became completely shocked to attention, and scared stiff; he started crying and so He told him 'are you throwing a _tragu_ (deceitful tantrum for show), by crying? Who do you think you are?' This in his case was like as if the Self had become completely separate. Now, such a special practice ( _prayog_ ) is not to be found anywhere else. Is there such a practice elsewhere? He would even slap him! He slapped his 'own' face!

**Questioner** : Dada, Chandubhai should be made to stand in front of a mirror and he should be given a good trashing; then he will understand exactly.

**Dadashri** : No, all that subtle practice (mirror _samayik_ ) is for you; for all these other people it has to be gross like this.

**Questioner** : Dada it is necessary, many times it is necessary to do this.

**Dadashri** : That is right. But he set it in order very nicely! He set the file in order. The file would not listen to him at all. He told me, 'Dada, file number one does not listen.' I told him, 'why would it not listen? Go, take my name and then hit him. Scold him heavily!' You have to do what Dada says. 'Who are you _mooah_ (the dying one, special term of Dadashri to awaken the listener)? Now I will put you in order.' He told him off a lot.

**Questioner:** Dada if I want to do something like that, I have to come to you first, take Your permission and then do it; then I will get the proper benefit, right?

**Dadashri** : Once I give you the blessings, then there not a problem. Because when I give you blessing, the Self alone is there. Therefore only the _pragnyashakti_ (liberating energy of the Self) will do the work. Otherwise if something from within were to get latched on to it, then it would create a problem.

When You scold, the opposing party becomes separate. Here one wants to sit on the opposing platform and then criticize the government. One sits on the opposition platform as a result of previous _karma_. But today's _purushartha_ is to not take sides with the opinions of the opposition. Therefore Our opinion should be for only the government (the Self). If he sides with the opposition but gives opinion in favor of the Self, then know that he has now turned towards the Self. Remain sided with the Atma (Self). It does not matter that you are sitting with the opposition. That is all due to previous _karma_ effect.

Who does the scolding? Whom does he say it to? The one who knows all this, that _Shuddhatma_ is absolute, complete. Who is doing the telling off? It is the committee of _pragnya_. To whom is it telling? To the committee of ignorance ( _ugnya_ ). In this committee of ignorance there is ego, anger, pride, deceit and greed. That committee is different. And this committee is different. If for just one _goonthanu_ (forty-eight minutes), if he were to scold Chandubhai, His energies would increase tremendously.

## For heavy scolding take the permission of the Gnani

I told others not to do this. Only those, to whom 'we' give the _agna_ to do so, should do this. Others should not do this, nor learn this. When 'we' give the _agna_ to someone, it is because his _karma_ are very sticky and heavy and that is why 'we' tell him to do so. This is not for everyone; You simply have to 'see' all this. Once in a while You can say a word or two to him. 'Chandubhai, what are you thinking? Chandubhai, who do you think you are? Look if you misbehave, then you will not get anything to eat tonight', You can say this to him.

We have shown You this solution. But 'we' are forbidding others to use this solution. Do not do it without asking 'us' first. You can do it after we send you off with a blessing. Otherwise it will turn out wrong. We tell others, not do use this solution. We told him to do it because his account of _karma_ was very heavy.

## One needs energy to scold the self

Did you say anything to your file number one? Did you scold him when you were alone?

**Questioner** : I have not done it yet.

**Dadashri** : So do it now, why don't you? Do something.

**Questioner** : I will think about it today.

**Dadashri** : You have to think about it? The one who does the thinking is file number one. You (the Self) do not have the energy to think.

**Questioner** : But I should have the energy to scold him, do I not?

**Dadashri** : Why would you not have the energy? If I tell you not to eat hot peppers and not to eat spicy vegetables, would you not have the energy not to?

**Questioner** : If You tell me not to do it, then I would not eat them.

**Dadashri** : So do you or do you not have such energy? If I tell, then you will have the energy for sure. If I tell you, the energy has already come.

**Questioner** : Dada you were saying that one should go to the terrace and then heavily scold file number one. Why go all the way there? If there is a mirror close by, why can't one look into it and do the scolding?

**Dadashri** : No, but if he goes to the terrace and does it, he will not be shy. Otherwise, here he will begin to feel shy. There is an energized self in him, is there not? It is a _mishrachetan_ (mixture of the Self and the non-Self). He still has all those attributes of feeling shy and getting depressed.

And if we were to tell him (Chandubhai) in front of everyone, he would lose his prestige and so if he goes upstairs and scolds him, he knows that 'there is no one is around to see, so then let him tell me off, come, I will turn around'. And he will turn around. He will turn around for sure, because there was no one there to tell him so before and if someone else were there, then you would defend the self and say, 'what do you know? You think I am some ordinary man?'

**Questioner** : So then should we say it in front of all other _mahatmas_ attending the _satsang_ or not?

**Dadashri** : No, why should you ruin your reputation in front of everyone? You have to go to the terrace and be straightforward. 'What kind of a man are you? Is this the way?' With this understanding, tell him off a little so that he too would understand that he will have to behave himself when he is with You or else You will throw him out. There is no telling when he will be thrown out.

Will you have to scold Chandubhai? Tell him off when no one is in the home, ok? So that Chandubhai's reputation is not lost. Tell him off when the wife is not there; mind you a real man will tell him off in front of the wife. Then see the fun! It can be done since You have become separate; these are all the solutions. There would be no solution if there were no separation, right?

Do You think he is likely to adjust? Then You should bring about a solution. Tell him off when you are alone. It is a different matter when I say so in the presence of everyone. I would say it even if Niruben is present. What do I say? "Ambalalbhai, contractor; what kind of a man are you? Who do you think you are?" Niruben asks, 'are you conversing?', so I tell her 'what else can I do?' Are all things to be discussed only privately?

**Questioner** : Dada that is because You are not separate from the absolute Self ( _nirbhedi_ ). Because You don't take sides, You are able to say it through the separation.

**Dadashri** : You too are separate for sure. I have separated You for sure, completely separate. Now if You were not to make use of it then...

**Questioner** : I do not have enough energy to do that kind of scolding.

**Dadashri** : No, but do the scolding in My name. Say, 'Dada has said to do so. Now I am going to tell you off'. Scold him strongly, 'Who do you think you are? You do so many bad things. Then you are embarrassing me and spoiling my reputation at the same time!'

I am telling you that 'it does not touch You' but you are telling me, 'No it does touch me'.

**Questioner** : Is it because that much of _dehadhyaas_ (I am this body) still remains?

**Dadashri** : No, the _dehadhyaas_ is from before; it is a habit - that habit will not break quickly, so what can be done? That habit will not break. That is why 'we' have given You this method.

This is all a science. No matter what kind of unfolding of _karma_ it is, not even for a second will the _karma_ obstruct You. But if you come and ask me, it will help you. Come and tell me when you are a little entangled, I am always ready. But if one is going to be over-wise on his own, what can I do?

You are very close to him but when You tell him off, You will start seaprating. Is a little of this fact understandable? You should not tell him off like that every day so that he cries, but just scold him gently a little every day. Just as when the mother-in-law starts nagging, the daughter-in-law will understand that she will not get along with her. When the mother-in-law starts nagging in every matter, the daughter-in-law will understand that 'I am not likely to get along with her; now I will have to look for ways to separate from her'. So You should talk to Chandubhai. Then the bliss You want will not go away. That bliss will not go away but it will increase because of it; that bliss will grow even more.

**Questioner** : That is the bliss I want to experience.

**Dadashri** : So try doing this. Just as 'we' told you, gently scold him three to four times everyday. In the bathroom tell him, 'You say you are a good person but you are shameless.' What objection do You have in doing this?

## The one who sees faults is not You

So you have to make changes back and forth in a way that the mind will not get weary and bored. Say the _vidhi_ , say the mantras. If You don't give the mind some food, it will consume you. So You have to put some food in it, without fail. In the other way it gets nourished as it is all the time. Before the other person says anything, you let him have it and so the mind will keep getting the 'food'. But what 'food' is he going to get here? In this one is not to say anything back, no?

**Questioner** : But I end up doing it in the mind through thoughts.

**Dadashri** : What kind of thoughts?

**Questioner** : Bad thoughts, good thoughts, all kinds of thoughts. I do it that way through the mind.

**Dadashri** : Oh no! That happens even now? Even though you are staying with Me? What is to become of you? When there is retaliation through the mind, other _mahatmas_ do _pratikraman_.

**Questioner** : I am informing You that this is what is happing. That is why I am telling you.

**Dadashri** : It happens, but it is not happening to You, is it? But You take it upon yourself. This creates a negative effect. It is happening to 'Chandubhai'. So You have to scold him. Every time he does this, You should just tell him. 'Don't you have any sense? Aren't you ashamed?'

**Questioner** : I do tell him off but the separation does not remain.

**Dadashri** : But you are the one saying, 'this is what is happening to me', so that means you have taken it upon yourself, right? You endorsed it. 'This is what's happening to Chandubhai,' that is how You should say it.

**Questioner** : Yes, I will say it like that.

**Dadashri** : It reaches you because you take it personally.

**Questioner** : The separation does not remain for me, what should I do?

**Dadashri** : It remains separate for sure. Because You know about it, it means it is separate for sure. Who would know that without beings separate? The knower and the speaker are indeed separate. So it remains separate for sure. You the Self are separate for sure. Do you understand this?

**Questioner** : Yes I do. I cannot see the _Shuddhatma_ in anyone.

**Dadashri** : It is not a problem that you cannot see the _Shuddhatma_.

**Questioner** : I would not see any of his faults if I could see the _Shuddhatma_ , true? But here I just keep seeing the faults in others.

**Dadashri** : 'Chandubhai' sees the faults. How are You seeing them? You are acting crazy like this? If the faults are being seen, it is 'Chandubhai' who is seeing them, You just have to keep telling him off and so it will become separate. Then there is no problem. As You continue telling him off, the _Shuddhatma_ the Self becomes stronger. And if you say, 'this is happening to me', then the Self will be lost.

**Questioner** : I do not want to do that for sure. But I am telling you about what happens.

**Dadashri** : It happens alas, but is it happening to You? No. You believe it because of your unfolding account. But otherwise everyone else understands all this. The others (in ignorance of the Self) cannot know what is happening to 'Chandubhai', whereas You are able to know it. So your Atma is separate for sure.

Here even though You are living with me (Dadashri), all this time is wasted. For how long will you continue to get entangled in this manner repeatedly? If you do, then we will have to take another route, I will show you another way. But if You have made this firm decision and have all the readiness ( _bhekha_ ) for going to _moksha_ , then it is possible to get Your work done.

**Questioner** : This is the only road I want to take, how are any other paths going to help me? I do not want to follow the path of devotion ( _bhakti marg_ ).

**Dadashri** : Then you should not. But You should do this, should You not? What have I tell you to do?

**Questioner** : I am doing that, am I not? But along with that I am also telling you what is happening.

**Dadashri** : But the Self within remains separate for sure. The one who sees faults is 'Chandubhai'. Whatever, good or bad, it is all Chandubhai's doing. You are the knower. Alas! Can you not understand this once You have been taught this? Can you not tell that this is the 'mother-in-law' and this is the 'daughter-in-law'? Why does unwareness set in? Then you say, 'I get entangled'. Have I not told you once that this is your 'mother-in-law' and this is your 'daughter-in-law'?

You should not do this. You have bound a goal with Me and it is possible to come out of all this. It is possible for You to get rid of it on Your own. But here it is not known, why 'that' veil does not fall off! You need that power to come out of it.

**Questioner** : What is that power, and what is in that?

**Dadashri** : _Nischaya_ (the unflinching establishment in the decision of 'I am the Self'). A _nischaya_ , such that no _moha_ (attachment) or anything else will touch Him. This is called a _nischaya_ ; a tremendous _nischaya_ like the one of this person here. I have not seen such a _nischaya_ anywhere. The entire world is trapped. He was trapped as well but He came out of it.

**Questioner** : There is the _shakti_ (energy) to throw it all away.

**Dadashri** : Tremendous _shakti_. That is why I make allowances that everything is alright. But here one is not moving forward as per My instructions. Despite having so much awareness, you are calling the mother-in-law, a daughter-in-law, so what will the mother-in-law say?! She will tell her, 'Go back to your home.'

**Questioner** : We say daughter-in-law to the mother-in-law and vice versa; why does that happen?

**Dadashri** : The _himsaakbhaav_ (intent to hurt) has become that much strong.

**Questioner** : What kind of _himsakbhaav_?

**Dadashri** : Of the egos. Tremendous ego. In everything, the ego is number one culprit and there is a lot of deceit ( _kapat_ ), is there not?

**Questioner** : Will all that be resolved?

**Dadashri** : When will that happen? In every instance, if He remains as the Self and tells 'Chandubhai' off, then it will become a practice. But You are not doing that at all! If You do what I tell You, then I will take You forward very quickly.

**Questioner** : When you assign certain _seva_ (service) to someone and I do not like it, then it will immediately arise within!

**Dadashri** : If he says 'I do not like it', then hit Chandubhai, tell him, 'I will give you two slaps.' When you say, 'I do not like it'; it is all mad talk. It all appears 'mad' to Me.

**Questioner** : Then he shows me everything wrong from within.

**Dadashri** : Hey! If he shows it to You, what have You lost? You are the _Shuddhatma_ , - the seer and he is the 'shower', the one showing You.

**Questioner** : Then I tell Chandubhai off.

**Dadashri** : If You keep scolding him, it will become separate.

**Questioner** : But after scolding him, whatever negative that is going on within, leads to depression at times and sometimes not.

**Dadashri** : Who feels depressed? If it happens to him (Chandubhai), then it is good, that will make him soft (subdued ego). So if You do as I tell You, I will show a very good way.

**Questioner** : It is a very scientific aproach.

**Dadashri** : Yes, it is a scientific aproach. But this is all he does. 'I feel depressed', but who feels depressed? Is it the mother-in-law or the daughter-in-law? He has no awareness ( _bhan, jagruti_ ) at all. 'Our' speech, 'our' understanding is such that if One grasps it, everything will become separate within. The one speaking within, says, 'this is happening to me', so when he says this, everything becomes one ( _ekakar_ ) within.

Here it is Chandubhai that is saying so and you become that way, you become one with him. You the Self have to keep seeing what 'Chandubhai' is saying. And on the contrary, You should scold Chandubhai, 'why are you being obstinate about this? Are you not ashamed?' But here he -Chandubhai becomes assertive, I am going to do this. I am going to do that.' He believes himself to be the winner-superior. If Chandubhai is doing that, You have to keep scolding him, every so often.

**Questioner** : If 'Chandubhai' is being obstinate, let him, but if I remain separate, then what is the problem? If the Self remains separate from the insistence ( _khencha_ ), then the insistence will fall away on its own, no?

**Dadashri** : It happens just like that; that is exactly the way it is. But here in your mind you feel, 'I will not let any of these people do it, I will do it. I will do it like this.' But in saying 'I will do it', you become Chandubhai.

**Questioner** : At that moment he becomes Chandubhai for sure.

**Dadashri** : This insistency ( _khencha_ ) is a disease in itself. If one lets go of the insistency, then everything will fall into place for him. When You used to let go, everything used to get settled, fall in its right place, no? And when you insisted on it, it would become one (no separation). It is to break his insistence that I ask another person to do it ( _seva_ ). As long as there is insistence, one is Chandubhai. The moment insistence breaks, one is the Self. The fact that you get to be around Dada, is a wonder in itself, no? Do you understand any of this? Is anything useful in it?

**Questioner** : Everything is useful. I feel that I am able to understand the part where he becomes insistent. But then the beliefs from before that are...

**Dadashri** : Hey you! But who has the beliefs? Alas – you are saying the same thing again and again, even when I am separating You as the Self.

**Questioner** : I understand this much, that what is happening is wrong, and at one point in time I even feel that I am separate from Chandubhai but despite this I become one again.

**Dadashri** : When You are scolding him then the Self and the non-Self will become separate. The moment the scolding begins, one's vision is against the other. So if 'Chandubhai' is insistent when he is talking to others, tell him, 'Chandubhai, why are you insisting like this? Are you an animal or what? Why are you insisting repeatedly? How does it look to others?' Why don't you really tell him off like this? Tell him, 'Dada is saying this, so why don't you think about it?' And if you tell him off five to twenty-five times a day, it will all become separate. This is 'our' _vachanbud_ (power and energy of words).

**Questioner** : Since since the time You told us to do it, I have started to tell him off.

**Dadashri** : That is good. So since You are telling him off, You become the Self.

**Questioner** : I scold him to the point of taking his skin off. Then everything remains well and separate. It remains separate.

**Dadashri** : The Self will remain separate.

**Questioner** : Then if he does good; I have to quietly tell him that he did good.

**Dadashri** : You have to say that also, otherwise he will be upset and distant from You. That is wrong too. You even have to say that to him. You even have to tell him, 'you pleased Dada. You have done a very good thing.'

**Questioner** : But I am not able to see everyone's _Shuddhatma_.

**Dadashri** : 'You' are seeing _Shuddhatma_ for sure. It is 'Chandubhai' who cannot see _Shuddhatma_. You (the Self) can see _Shuddhatma_ for sure. Just rebuke him; keep scolding him all day long, do it for a day or two.

**Questioner** : Yes I will do it.

**Dadashri** : Tell him, 'why can't you see the Self. All is the Self only, are they not?'

**Questioner** : But did you not say that it is Chandubhai who cannot see _Shuddhatma_ in everyone?

**Dadashri** : Yes. But You can see! You are negating what You are 'seeing'. When you say 'no'; then darkness-ignorance sets in.

**Questioner** : So how should we handle that?

**Dadashri** : Then _Shuddhatma_ will be 'seen'. From the time you start seeing others as _nirdosh_ (flawless), can You not understand who You are seeing?

**Questioner** : Where am I seeing _nirdosh_ (without faults), all I see is faults?

**Dadashri** : It is 'Chandubhai' who is seeing faults.

**Questioner** : I don't have to have to be responsible for it.

**Dadashri** : That is indeed Your responsibility. It is because you take it as your responsibility that you get this result-fruit.

**Questioner** : What do I get in that fruit?

**Dadashri** : You get a beating from the world and the _moha_ (illusory attachment) keeps increasing.

**Questioner** : How does increasing _moha_ fall in this?

**Dadashri** : You will 'see' the _moha_ , that the Gnani Purush had pushed away for You, again. The _moha_ that has been pushed away as a result of the Gnani's Agnas, will be seen again, or you might succumb to it. You are deliberately jumping in a well.

**Questioner** : Even though I scold Chandubhai, he takes it on his head.

**Dadashri** : Just look, so what can you do here? On the contrary You have to scold him, 'you deserve a good thrashing, you are crooked and obstinate.' Should You not say this?

**Questioner** : Only then is it likely to separate.

**Dadashri** : If depression comes, it comes to Chandulal, how is it ever going to come to You? 'You' should be pleased. On the contrary, if You are rebuking him and depression comes on, You should be pleased that he has now shaped up! If he is being very difficult, tell him, 'I will still take matters to task.' Don't You know how to do this?

**Questioner** : Yes I do.

**Dadashri** : So do it today only. Show Me tomorrow. Rebuke him in My presence, this presence is for twenty-four hours. You will not get this kind of presence again. You will get everything else. Do You understand? Do no waste away these precious days. If I am asleep, sit in this room during that time and converse with him (Chandubhai). It does not matter if someone overhears, what have You go to lose?

You too have learnt how to admonish your file, have You not? You have started telling him too, no? You will have to practice the separation and that too in My presence. But otherwise it is not possible to do so. If you were to try doing it elsewhere, it is not possible. It will happen in My presence; because of the power and energy ( _vachanbad_ ) in our words.

Are You turning it around by scolding him? But 'Chandubhai' is doing the scolding, it is not You who is doing the scolding, is it? Only a few days remain so get Your work done. We will caution and make You alert. Then what will happen? Having separated, Chandubhai will continue doing the _seva_ and the benefits will keep coming. Chandubhai has to come on 'this' side. That is all. Until then, You keep separating it. Ultimately Chandubhai will admit, 'because of You I am satisfied. I am happy because of You. Before I used to feel pain ( _dukha_ ), but now it has now stopped.' When Chandubhai experiences this, he will begin to come over on this (Your-the Self) side. The pain Chandubhai used to feel before has stopped. And that is why will he will not come on that other (non-Self) side because he will feel, 'I liked Your company.'

**Questioner** : That is correct. He too will feel happy and he will feel that this worth doing.

**Dadashri** : Yes, that is what I am saying.

**Questioner** : Then the depression did not come. I even openly told others that 'look! Are you doing all this (scolding)?'

**Dadashri** : You have to keep rebuking him a little.

**Questioner** : So everything will fall into place when I will be able to do it properly.

**Dadashri** : Keep rebuking him. Then it will happen in My presence. Even the depression may happen. Go ahead and scold him. Scold him and 'see'. If he gets depressed, stop and then scold him in some new way. You keep seeing within. You are the 'organizer'; 'how to organize' is Your job.

# [1.7] Awareness of separation during depression

Reader is to please note that this term depression is not to be confused with the disease of depression.

## No more depression on account of anyone!

Hundreds of thousands of people may come to depress You but even then there is not the slightest of depression. Not just hundreds of thousands but there may be tens of millions of people, but there will be no depression. Why should depression come at all? Even now, depression does not come to You. The depression that comes; it comes to 'Chandubhai'; it does not come to You (the Self). But people will not truly accept this, will they? When will people accept this? You have to keep doing the _purushartha_ (Be in the five Agnas) so that depression does not come to even 'Chandubhai'. Depression still comes to Chandubhai, does it not? When even Chandubahi becomes free from depression; that is considered complete accomplishment! Even I know that at the moment depression does not come to You; the Self ( _Atmaswaroop_ ). But the depression comes to the external state; the effect is on it. When that happens, the face looks sullen, he becomes anxious and afraid, and if he is thus depressed, tell Chandubhai, 'I am with you, don't be afraid!'

## Depressed, that is not 'I'!

If Chandubhai becomes depressed, you even have to hold him and tell him, 'A man like you; you are such a nice man! How else would you meet Dada? How _punyaishadi_ (fortunate-full of merit _karma_ effect) you are!' tell him such things.

**Questioner** : Yes. That is really needed. I get overcome with a lot of depression.

**Dadashri** : No. So when depression comes, this is what You have to tell him. Depression will come if there is little weakness. Many people are overcome with depression. So that is why 'we' caution You, if You want to scold him, then ask 'us' first, and then scold him carefully. He may go into depression again. But if at that time the awareness is there that 'the one who is becoming depressed is not I', then there would be no problems.

## The Self is truly found during depression

If you are hungry and you don't find any food to eat and you waste time unnecessarily for it; the Lord has considered this a mistake ( _bhool_ ). That is when one finds the Self. When is the Self found? If one is overcome with depression and he deals with it calmly, he can find the Self. If he resorts to solutions to get rid of it, then he is doomed. The solution for the depression results in worldly interaction entanglements. The Self can be found during depression.Depression is considered penance ( _tapa_ ). And the Self is found in depression. But these poor young men and women lose the opportunity; they don't have the understanding, do they? When is the Self to be found?

**Questioner** : During pain ( _dukha_ ).

**Dadashri** : When one is surrounded by tremendous suffering from the outside ( _oopsarg_ ) and from the inside ( _parishaha_ ); that is when the Self is discovered. Do you understand? Yes, so now what will You do?

**Questioner** : I will not lose such opportunity.

**Dadashri** : There is no solution in depression. There is no medicine better than depression in this world, for the Self. These people who have no understanding of it have destroyed it. You should become very stern. Tell him, 'Go ahead and wither away and die, but 'I' will not become one with you'. Tell him, 'you are separate and I am separate'. At that time there will be a huge flash of the experience of the Self. If one becomes very hungry, he will eat anyone's leftovers. Is this the way? Now if this is not being wild then what else is it? Is one meant to eat someone else's leftovers or to maintain one's own dignified search for the Self? The one who maintains this search, his Self will become present and ready. What will You do from now on?

**Questioner** : Up until now I used to look for solutions to distance myself from depression.

**Dadashri** : Depression is beneficial now. The most beneficial is depression.

**Questioner** : I completely understand that now.

**Dadashri** : You understand, that is fine, but what I am saying is you should come out of depression, should you not?

**Questioner** : I am beginning to come out of it.

**Dadashri** : You are beginning to come out of it – but you have to come out. Why are you still dwelling there? Just tell him in a stern tone, 'Chandubhai even if you wither away and die, 'I' (Self) am separate from you.'

One can certainly live in depression. It is a different matter if there is no depression. Depression means the moment has come for the Self to manifest. Did You not know that?

**Questioner** : When one is not able to tolerate the depression, he looks for worldly pleasures.

**Dadashri** : At the extreme border of tolerance, the Self manifests. Is the Self likely to manifest just like that, without such penance?

**Questioner** : But Dada what you have said is exact but currently I am not in a state where I can fight this battle on my own.

**Dadashri** : No. 'You' are capable of fighting; 'You' can fight everything. When that man scolded his file number one, he got scared and cried, he cried a lot but then everything came to a stop. All the negative behavior came to a halt.

Depression is the best time of all. Take advantage of it. Depression will not come on any given day and the Self will not manifest. The Self has manifested only during depression. Take one hundred percent advantage of depression. Do not let the depression go away. Will you now take advantage of it? How many percent?

**Questioner** : I want to take a one hundred percent advantage of it.

**Dadashri** : Yes...alas those who live with me do not understand this and so I get irritated 'what kind of a man is he?' Can those who want to practice celibacy be like this? Tell the body complex, 'burn! You can burn and I will see. I will see you come ablaze!' - tell him this. That is how strong those who go for _brahmacharya_ (celibacy) are. When one is not able to tolerate just one small internal suffering ( _parishaha_ ), how is he going to tolerate the twenty-two _parishaha_ (different categories of inner suffering)? These boys are so weak.

**Questioner** : The Gnani Purush will give us the energy, will he not?

**Dadashri** : The Gnani Purush gives all the energy but still one conducts himself according to his own understanding. He acts crazy. He tries to treat his depression. Wow! You are treating it? Depression is the biggest entrance into increasing the manifestation of the Self. On the contrary, if the depression does not arise from within, then tell someone to scold you heavily.Why do you have to tell them 'scold me'? It is so that depression can come. So that if depression comes; I will find the Self. This will facilitate exact ( _niddhidhyasan_ ) visualization of and as the Self. Otherwise all this will not manifest whatsoever. The Self has been discovered out of depression, so when more depression comes, say to it, 'come all'. Don't look for solutions. When one looks for solution for depression, then he closes the door on the moment the Self is about to manifest.

One does not know the exact boundary during the suffering of pain where exactly to catch the stillness and proceed. [The opportunity into penance is not explored fully] I was under the impression that you might be doing that. But then you tell me, 'when depression comes, I end up eating 'leftovers'. I even end up eating whatever someone has thrown away on our way!' When I heard that, I was stunned. My head began to spin. You even eat the leftovers people throw away?

**Questioner** : One cannot eat that.

**Dadashri** : But this man says that he ate it. How many leftovers do you eat? Were you not telling me that 'when I get depressed, I end up eating it'?

**Questioner** : Yes.

**Dadashri** : So then? Will you do the same now?

**Questioner** : No, I will not do that.

**Dadashri** : Remain in depression longer. Say to it, 'come depression, still come'. 'You are there, and here 'I' am.' At that time the Self will quickly separate. When you are trying to peel off a band-aid and you cry, 'oh my god, oh my god!' will it work? What do you have to do? You have to say, 'peel it off', even though you peel off a few hair in the process. Otherwise you will not be able to peel off the band-aid and yet it hurts every day. Is that the thing to do?

**Questioner** : But Dada is that not ego?

**Dadashri** : That is the discharge ego. The charge ego can never be in this, can it? You don't be dictated by your intellect; you will take a beating needlessly. Don't protect yourself? Depression is the biggest gateway to becoming a God. There is a commotion going on inside. You don't feel any ease at all. At that time when there is so much agitation going on within; say, 'come on all of you. Sit far away'. The moment You say that, they will all sit far away quickly. 'Are you going or not?' threaten them. They will all sit far away. Alas! Why would you come into depression? Roar out so loudly like when we all sing with courage here...' _Re sinh na santaan ney shiyaad tey shoo kari shakey?_ What can a fox do to a lion's cub?' When this depression comes, say to it, 'all other ones come along too'. They will not take You away. The Self is where it is. When all other forms of depression come together, say to them, 'since I have met Dada, there is no end to the wealth in Dada's bank. I will make a payment to you. There is no shortage in Dada's bank!'You have met the Gnani Purush; He is the Akram Vignani (Scientist of the stepless path to Self-realisation). You have the freedom to eat and drink whatever you like – you have all kinds of freedom. But why this? Alas, when the slightest depression comes, are you scared of it? Not even the slightest effect of any vibration of depressed state should take place within, even if a bomb were to be dropped on you, so then are you scared of depression? If a bomb were to fall, if a leader of another country threatens with, 'we'll drop a bomb', You have to tell the bomb, 'whenever you want to fall, fall. 'I' am here and there you are. You, the bomb are the one going to fall and 'I' am the knower of that.' The one that falls will get hurt and burnt; the knower can never get burnt. No matter how many Holi fires (bonfires) are lit, the eyes of the 'seer' will not get burnt. So therefore nothing touches the Self – the Atma. The Self will go around and pass through the bomb but it remains unaffected and untouched! Such is the Self that I have given to you.

If you see two to four mosquitoes inside the room, you will say, 'those darn mosquitoes...there are mosquitoes here'. If you start complaining about them right from the start, how are you going to be able to sleep at night? You have to sleep in this very room. Hey you! There is no mosquito or even mosquito's father there! Just eat your dinner, pull the cover over you and go to sleep. 'If you are going to bite, then bite', say this to them, 'take away whatever is in your account'. No one is going to take away anything that is outside of the account of _karma_ , but otherwise, it will be taken away from you, whether you cry or you laugh. Is it going to leave you alone if you cry? Will it not leave you alone? They will take away even if you cry; so you fool, why not give it up with a smile? When you are feeding them right now, why don't you feed them happily, so many are going to feed anyway! Will the mosquito not eat and go away? So why this entanglement over it, when the Self within has been separated? Why this botheration after the separation? When the ego gets involved with it, at that time a little entanglement arises But I have made the separation for You; the Self has been completely separated but then you complain by saying, 'I am burnt...I got burnt'! So you fool, you have always had that habit. You now have to let go of this habit!

After the Self has been separated; who is touched by the external problems ( _oopsarg_ ) and the inner suffering ( _parishaha_ )? It is happening to Chandubhai. So when Chandubhai gets scared, You have to tell him, 'Do not be afraid. I am with you.'

**Questioner** : ' _Himmatey marda to madadae Dada_ \- If you have courage to move forward, then Dada is there to help you'. A great sentence came out today.

**Dadashri** : Yes, people will have depression. How are You to get depression? Does the Self ever get depression?

**Questioner** : Dada, what is the root cause of depression? What is the reason behind one being overcome with depression?

**Dadashri** : It is one's own weakness, what else?

**Questioner** : What kind of weakness?

**Dadashri** : Weakness of all kind. When one's tendencies have decption ( _danatchor_ ), then depression will inevitably come to him.

**Questioner** : That is the exact word for it Dada.

**Dadashri** : If one is not _danatchor_ (does not have deceptive tendencies) but is _nikhalas_ (strightforward), then why would he have depression? It is because one has the desire to still go for worldly pleasures. If one does not have the desire, why would he have depression? One who is _nirichchhak_ (free from all desires), would he ever get depressed? We having become the Self, we do not have any desires; we are _nirichchhak_!

## From the start, Chandu was without any substance

Say, 'I am the Self,' having become the Self. After becoming the Self, when You live, conduct as the Self, then there are no problems.

**Questioner** : So what do 'I' have to say?

**Dadashri** : It remains in Your awareness as to what 'Chandubhai' is doing and if depression sets in, then You should know that it is not to happening to You-the Self. The Atma can never be depressed.

**Questioner** : Now is it possible that one can 'know' the depression?

**Dadashri** : Yes, it is possible.

**Questioner** : So what is the depression that has already happened?

**Dadashri** : When depression comes, up until now one used to remain on that side and now suddenly You are beginning to break free.

**Questioner** : So has the depression come as its effect?

**Dadashri** : Yes it has. But now if You repeatedly separate Yourself, the depression will end.

**Questioner** : Then depression will never happen.

**Dadashri** : Then it will not come. It may come for five, seven, ten times.

**Questioner** : But when it comes, can it be said that I missed awareness ( _jagruti_ )?

**Dadashri** : No, You do not miss it like that. The depression is a _karma_ effect from previous cause. If 'we' tell you, 'you don't know how to do it', then you should get up from there (Chandubhai's seat) and become the _Shuddhatma_ and 'see' Chandubhai. Join Dada, and You too tell Chandubhai, 'you do not have any know how. You have not capability.'

**Questioner** : Now when I hear that, if at that time this sentence prevails, then depression does not have any effect.

**Dadashri** : Yes, when You say all this, 'you do not have any know how at all. People are right when they say so. I am experiencing it for sure but now even people are saying so, are they not? It has all come out in the open, no? What did you get out of this?' Say this to Chandubhai. But You don't say this, do You?

**Questioner** : Now that I heard it from You, I feel that I should say all this to him.

**Dadashri** : If You say it, it would be good. Everything will fall into place. I have been teaching this gentleman here for a long time. But he tells me that he knows his own state, what do you know in this? If the depression comes, let it come. I asked him, 'why has the depression come?' He replies, I am depressed because of what people are telling me. Now he leisurely remains in Chandubhai's place instead of the remaining in the seat of the Self that I have given him.

**Questioner** : Just now when I dozed off, You asked me to go outside, at that time depression took over and my face dropped and lost its cheer.

**Dadashri** : You (Self) have to tell him at that time, 'Chandubhai, did you see that, you do not have any know how, do you?' If You say that, there would be no depression. But for you it came right away, because you became Chandubhai and you even give him protection by telling me, 'truly I did not fall asleep'. At that time You should say, 'Chandubhai I know you were trying to pass, but you are not passing. But now pass just for once. I am with you', say this to him.

**Questioner** : That is right.

**Dadashri** : If depression comes then You should pat him on his back and tell him, 'I am with you!' When in the aging of old age, even I pat his back and tell him, 'I am with you', so then what problem do you have when you are so young?

**Questioner** : This is a perfect method and the separation remains. Depression will not come and I get all the benefit.

**Dadashri** : Yes. Those businessmen who own mills tell me, 'Uncle, you have changed a lot from before. Before your nature used to be very good and look how it has become now!' I told them, 'It has been like this from the start. You had no idea. I live with him!' So they tell me, 'Why are you talking like this?' I told them, 'I know that from the start. I know your uncle well!' So nothing can depress Me! And, do I not know him? Of course I know him well. Where he goes to pee, don't I know that? Where he sits to empty his bowels. Even during the day, if no one is around, he will sit anywhere. Why don't you look for a public toilet? Then he will say, 'at the moment, there is no one around'. He is more concerned with nobody being around. What is he concerned with?

**Questioner** : That someone may be around. Someone will see me.

**Dadashri** : You fool, you are being seen; can you see these trees and shrubs? Then he says, 'but they do not know me! They don't have an understanding!' And all these people you see with intelligence, all these people who go to college and school, are intelligent? They are more intelligent than the trees? To us (Dadashri), the only things I see with any intelligence are these trees.

**Questioner** : But in this, when he feels that people will see him, he experiences shame; what is that called?

**Dadashri** : That is because he becomes, 'I am Chandubhai' – that is why.

**Questioner** : And what about the one who remains as the Self – how is it with Him?

**Dadashri** : Such a One will say, 'If you think no one is here to see you, then why don't you sit here! Go ahead, I am with you. Sit here!' 'He' will help and give him the permission.

**Questioner** : But even then, that other feeling will arise in the _prakruti_ , will it not?

**Dadashri** : 'This' has been given the name 'file' after having separated the entire Self-Atma (in the Gnan Vidhi) no? It has been called a 'file' to such an extent that You don't have to even look for the Self!!. Besides that file (Chandubhai), everything else is the Self and except for the Self, everything else is a file. How wonderful is this line of demarcation?

**Questioner** : From the moment I sit here, I am with complete oneness ( _ekakar_ ) with him. Then when I say, 'I was made to get up', the effect ( _asar_ ) will be felt from that point, will it not?

**Dadashri** : Yes, but on the contrary, You should say, 'Chandubhai sit properly. Look if today you are told to get up, you have had it.' 'You' have to tell him this. It has nothing to do with You and everything moves along. But You take it upon yourself, by saying, 'today I want to make sure that I do not go back and forth. Today I want to do just this.', then you become Chandubhai.

**Questioner** : Yes, that's right. 'I don't want to do this, I want to do this.' Is that called taking it upon my head?

**Dadashri** : Yes, it is needless suffering. I have given you the pure Atma, _Shuddhatma_. If You remain in that, then there will be ( _nirant_ ) a state where there is ease and no doer ship in the relative world. Did the depression decrease when you left to go outside the room?

**Questioner** : Then I told Chandubhai off, that 'Because of you I had to go outside the room'.

**Dadashri** : Who are you at that time?

**Questioner** : At that time, the Atma – the Self.

**Dadashri** : _Pragnya_! The Atma would not interfere in this. Everything is 'done' by the secretary! The secretary of the 'government'!

## Depression vanishes the moment the separation is made

If Chandubhai says anything, You should keep nagging him, that means that You are separate from his opinion; that has been decided. Or else tell him, 'why does this happen?' It is enough even if You ask him this much.

**Questioner** : I do tell Chandubhai that.

**Dadashri** : Very well, when You tell him that, Your opinion is separate and You have become separate. If it happens again despite this, then it is due to the baggage of _karma_ that was stored, is it not?

**Questioner** : Chandubhai has all the insistence ( _aagraha_ ) – I just keep 'seeing' all that.

**Dadashri** : That is fine. All that insistence will decrease if You keep seeing them. They have decreased a great settle and I keep prodding You to remind you. Do I not prod ( _thakko, godo_ ) you?

**Questioner** : It does not feel like You are prodding and pushing me; I like it but when all this comes out of Chandubhai and he suffers, it is to do with that.

**Dadashri** : Yes that is right. When all that comes out, You have to tell him, 'Dear fellow, this should not happen.' That is it; that is all. If you sit behind him and keep recalling the past, then you will lose out on the present.

**Questioner** : I will not let go of the present.

**Dadashri** : Even when I give you a push, tell him, 'see the 'present', do not see the push.'

**Questioner** : You had told us, say it like this. That I do say; 'I want to remain in the present', but even then the depression comes.

**Dadashri** : The depression comes to Chandubhai, so what objection do You have? Just 'see'. 'Why does depression come to you Chandubhai?' Converse with him on various matters. I should not have to tell You anything. I-Dadshri say such things as, 'You have become a boss of the whole world?' that is what I say. Like that, You should say, 'What Chandubhai, you big man?' Will You know how to converse like this or not? So remain only in the present, in any way You can. When depression comes, You have to say, 'Dadaji just look, Chandubhai has become depressed.' This is considered a tremendous spiritual effort ( _purushartha_ ). 'Why Chandubhai? Are you not ashamed?' ask him that. So then tell me how long will the relationship between the two, last?

**Questioner** : It has become separate.

**Dadashri** : You will be able to swim, will You not? The ocean is very vast!

## When depression comes...

When depression arises if one has such awareness that, 'This is not my state, I am _Shuddhatma_ (pure Self) **,** I am the 'knower' of this depression', and if such separation is decidedly fixed, then one's goal is accomplished. The awakened awareness ( _jagruti_ ) has to be constantly preserved. To keep nurturing and nourishing it is verily the Self ( _Shuddhatma_ ).

**Questioner:** And really the Self is the knower only, is he not? When did depression arise, how much it is, is it less or more then the last time?

**Dadashri:** The Self knows everything.

**Questioner:** Just as one remains the knower of the depression, during the time of elevation also, if the Self remains as the knower, then the time will not come for depression, will it?

**Dadashri:** If one hears something good about his self and at that time if he becomes stiff with pride, the Self knows this. Once the elevation has happened, the depression will follow for sure.

**Questioner:** So at the time of elevation does one have to keep the awareness that, 'you became tight?'

**Dadashri:** If such awareness ( _jagruti_ ) remains then the work is done.

**Questioner:** So as much elevation arises, the same amount of depression will arise, is that so?

**Dadashri:** If one sits on a chair that is one hundred and fifty feet high, then he will fall from the same height.

If the wife makes a mistake then the man will say words that will bring depression over her, but the woman will not have depression, will she?! She will just say, 'You are a very cruel man'. So she takes the negative words of depression and makes the other person suffer from depression. So she committed double crime. She will experience that much suffering (later). That means she would experience enormous suffering. Even if it is the fault of one's own, to attack the other person and make him feel as if it is his fault; is double the crime; the reaction to this is increased depression. But at that time she is glowing, thinking, see, how I gave what was coming to him.

**Questioner:** In addition, there is the calculation in the mind, that if I snap at him thus then he will not settle with me like this again.

**Dadashri:** She would have all such calculations.

**Questioner:** When the other person is scolding me heavily, then how should I behave at that time?

**Dadashri:** If he is thrashing you with words then You should laugh (within). As he is speaking such words, You should say, 'Is that right 'Chandubhai', did you commit such mistakes? See the kind of words people use for you! Are you not ashamed?'

**Questioner:** I should say such things to 'Chandubhai'. That is correct. But her scolding and oppressive words to me; is that not unfolding of my own _karma_?

**Dadashri:** What else?

**Questioner:** So I should maintain this awareness ( _jagruti_ ). And how should one be in worldly interactions ( _vyavahar_ )?

**Dadashri:** If You want to have safe side in _vyavahar_ , then remain silent ( _maun_ ).

**Questioner:** She will intimidate me more with words if I remain silent, no?

**Dadashri:** If she uses those words, it would be her problem, what does it have to do with You? That is the way she is.

When depression comes, then You should tell him, 'Remember how high you use to fly and show off?' That is verily the Self. The sufferer of the depression is Chandubhai; the one who had gone up will now go down. The Self is the knower of this. Depression has come, who is the knower of that? It is the Self. So, on the contrary You should say, 'see, you used to fly high and wild; now what did you gain in all that?' You will gain a lot, if You speak thus; You will gain tremendously. If You speak this way every time, then you will not even have to do _pratikraman_.'We' (the Gnani Purush) would also say, 'you want to eat chili pepper, see how dignified you look with the coughing bouts?' He (addressing the worldly A. M. Patel) would eat up the whole fried chili pepper! Now he has stopped doing that. We (the Self) will not do the stopping. 'We' only decide that now it should not happen. This is because it will have effect on the body, will it not? Have you understood where the Self is? Who is the one that becomes elevated and depressed?

**Questioner:** Many times You may be carrying on this inner conversation of separation, but on many an occassion we hear you talking to Ambalal. It makes Your separation quite evident.

**Dadashri:** Yes, that is quite so. These words are also spoken out aloud.

**Questioner:** So when one vocalizes this inner conversation of separation externally, is it more effective?

**Dadashri:** It has a lot of effect. That means the two have become separate, no? The one who used to talk of separation from within is now talking overtly. And everything is separate indeed. Therefore, You should say, 'Look, you are now here, having become a 'big' doctor. Now let's see you derive the taste of what you have done. What else will you do? Nothing worked for you?'

**Questioner:** When hurtful words come out then I would tell her, 'you look like a witch.'

**Dadashri: '** Witch', do you say like this? So then all the connections start to break. If you say words that break the relationship, then relationship will break. This is because the _prakruti_ (the relative self, the non-Self) will be offended.

## When the energies of the Self arise, depression flees!

**Questioner:** How can I take the awareness ( _jagruti_ ) all the way to there? How do I do the _purushartha_ to take the awareness all the way there?

**Dadashri** : Even resort to pinching your self in order to bring awareness! If you pinch him, the awareness will prevail. Then he will not like it. So when the bedbugs bite, the awareness will come. You have to take the awareness to the point where You can remain knower-seer of the mind. Then that awareness will take care of the awareness. Then you don't have to take it there. So for how long will You have to walk like this?

**Questioner** : The mind is even beyond speech, is it not?

**Dadashri** : When One becomes completely separate from everything; that is when He is the knower-seer. Then You have to disembark from this 'horse carriage'. Then You will come to a stage where You will get everything, You will not have to do the climbing in and getting off.

If You learn to remain separate for a while, then You will reach there. The mind is going to remain till the end. The mind likes it when everything is comfortable and easy ( _anukada_ ), it does not like difficulties and discomfort ( _pratikuda_ ). If someone says, 'Chandubhai is very good person', his mind will like it and his face will light up.

**Questioner** : When the mind likes everything, what is the Self doing?

**Dadashri** : The Self comes down from there; it keeps slipping down.

**Questioner** : But I want the position of being on the top, the state of being the knower-seer of the mind. So should the situation be such that the the mind does not like it ( _pratikuda_ )?

**Dadashri** : No. The mind may like it, but You (Self) say no to it. 'What do You have to do with it?' Say this to it. 'If you like it, how does it concern Me? You sleep in your room and I will sleep in Mine.' Your work will get done if You do not listen to dictates of the mind. When You say this, the Self become separate there.

**Questioner** : Is that called being _gnata_ - _drashta_ (knower-seer)?

**Dadashri** : That is the beginning of the knower-seer state. Till the end You may have to keep drinking that which the mind finds bitter. You make him drink it; the one who lives with You. You become free and workless (retired) ( _navro_ ). No one else will become free and 'workless', no? None of the others have time. All of them are stuck with Chandubhai.

**Questioner** : From now on, when the mind has to drink the bitter in life, how should I take the opportunity of being the knower-seer?

**Dadashri** : If the bitter is taken with exact awareness, then You are the knower-seer ( _gnata-drashta_ ).

**Questioner** : But the mind will find it unacceptable and it will say, 'why is it like this or like that?', so then that part of awareness goes away, no?

**Dadashri** : Then it becomes dim.

**Questioner** : Yes, so what should it be like if I want the benefit of the awareness?

**Dadashri** : If the mind does not like it, say to it, 'You go sleep in your room, I am in My room!'

**Questioner** : Yes, I have to say that.

**Dadashri** : If the mind does not like it, then Your awareness must be separate with, 'I am separate, who are you? And what do I have to do with you?'

**Questioner** : This type of consersation with the non-Self has to be ongoing, only then I will get the exact benefit, no?

**Dadashri** : Then only, You have the chance to live as the Self, how else will You live? Depression will come. It will come and then be over with. The Self is separate; this awareness ( _jagruti_ ) must be there.

**Questioner** : Is it possible for the mind to be in depression and the Self to remain separate?

**Dadashri** : Yes, to 'know' that 'the mind is depressed', is our real Self state.

**Questioner** : But even the depression of the mind must not come, right?

**Dadashri** : That is at the advanced stage. The depression may come at first. And it has to be 'known'.

**Questioner** : What if he is not able to 'know' the depression but remains one with it, and suffers it?

**Dadashri** : Then it becomes like people elsewhere (those who do not have Gnan). When depression comes, You should not cool off, miss the opportunity of penance. 'Oh ho ho! Now I have come to know the self', take advantage of it. 'I did not know my Self, who I was, now I know who I am'. Except for the Self, no one can know depression. That verily is my Atma and that is who I am, the Self.

**Questioner** : This is depression of Chandubhai, to see it separate like that, is that the Self?

**Dadashri** : Seeing it separate is the Self and when depression comes, it (Chandulal complex), becomes helpless and weak within. 'Why don't you eat some ice cream?' he will say, but he does not know his Self. At that time You should be happy that, 'Wow! Today I found my Self!' But instead of that he becomes weak and helpless. This man is saying, 'I get depressed'. Hey You! How can depression come to You? So then who is the One that knows you are depressed?' The Atma, the Self is the knower of it. These are all discharge. Discharge means You have to 'see'. You have to keep 'seeing' whether depression has increased or decreased.

**Questioner:** Actually even at the time of depression, one is aware of and knows that it is happening to the non-Self.

**Dadashri:** That verily is the Self. Instead one becomes clouded and cold with the depressive effects. When this happens to the non-Self, You need to elevate him. What else is to be done? It is not necessary to lift him up daily. Only when depression comes, then it is necessary to say , 'I am infinite energy, I am the abode of infinite bliss.' That is how You have to elevate him.The place where there is never any depression is 'Our' location. That place is the place of infinite bliss. If You say this then You will swiftly ascend to Your location. This is necessary because you have lost a lot so far, no?

# [2.1] Knower-Seer

## When there is the Knower-Seer there is absolute bliss

What is the main natural quality ( _swabhav_ ) of the Self? It is 'Knower-Seer ( _gnata_ - _drashta_ ), eternal bliss ( _paramanand_ ) '! There are other infinite attributes, but Knower-Seer is the main one.

**Questioner** : There is eternal bliss along with knowing-seeing?

**Dadashri** : The Self is eternal bliss, constant bliss. Not even for a second, have 'we' experienced any tension in the last twenty-six years. Even if someone were to curse us, slap us or take us to jail, our tension does not increase. And such energy exists within You too. It just needs to be developed. Whatever is within Me, the same is within You also. Besides the Knower-Seer state, the rest is illusion ( _bhranti_ ). Illusion arises in the absence of the Knower-Seer. Knower-Seer means that all _gneyas_ (that which is to be known) are seen. So remain in the Knower-Seer state. He who remains continuously in the Knower-Seer state is a Gnani.

## Past karmas hinder the Knower-Seer state

**Questioner** : You have told us to remain in the Knower-Seer state; so what impedes us in remaining as Knower-Seer?

**Dadashri** : Unfolding of past karma hinder you from remaining in the Knower-Seer state. Now, all the past karma will entangle you. You will have thoughts, but You should not become entangled with them. You should not become adulterated in them. They are _gneyas_ (that to be known) and You are the _gnata_ , the Knower. A relation of Knower-Seer remains for You with the world. There is no other relation with the world for You, anymore. Now, You do not involve yourself in any other relations at all.

**Questioner** : The vibrations of duality have not been destroyed from their roots, have they?

**Dadashri** : No, they are in the form of _gneya_ , are they not? They are all in the form of _gneya_. And then it confuses us (into thinking) 'does it possess me or what?' 'You' just have to 'see' whether the _raag_ - _dwesh_ (attachment-abhorrence) have gone down or not.

**Questioner** : After Self-realization, the questions or the confusion that arises is not 'our' (the Self) part, is it?

**Dadashri** : Those are all _gneyas_ (that which is to be known) and they are in discharge form. And they are not in 'our' control; they are under the control of _vyavasthit_. Their and 'our' innate nature ( _swabhav_ ) are different. They are _gneya_ in nature, and 'we' (the Self) are Knower ( _gnata_ ) by nature. _Gneya_ are _vitarag_ (free from attachment and abhorrence), the Knower is _vitarag_ too and in the middle of the two is the ego which causes attachment-abhorrence ( _raag-dwesh_ ). When the ego is removed, You should maintain a _vitarag_ relation with the _gneya_. If you shun _gneya_ , then it will do the same to you. Nevertheless, if negative _pudgalik_ intents (intents of the non-Self) arise, then you have to do _pratikraman_. Whatever remains after attaining Gnan, remains in the form of _gneya_. Whatever arises within us; it is _gneya_ , and 'we' (the Self) are the Knower ( _gnata_ ).

## The Knower-Seer is free from all responsibilities

After 'we' give you the Gnan, the 'home ( _swa_ \- the Self)' and 'foreign' ( _para_ \- non-Self) become separate, after that 'we' say that if You do not lose Your Knower-Seer state, then You are not liable for the 'foreign' at all.

**Questioner** : Awareness of Knower-Seer does not remain properly, it comes and goes.

**Dadashri** : It (awareness) will go away. If it ever remains continuously, then You will have become God. So it does go away but even then it will become complete. All the work in the worldly life still remain, do they not? Do worldly files still remain or not?

**Questioner** : They still remain.

**Dadashri** : As those files become fewer, the awareness will increase. It is because of the files that everything is stuck.

**Questioner** : Grace us in such a way that I remain constantly in the Self. I make mistakes in not seeing and knowing every circumstance as being of the non-Self.

**Dadashri** : You have to settle the past files. Any mistakes that do happen; recognize that they are because of the files. That is why You cannot remain in the uninterrupted state as the Knower-Seer. That is the reason for it; it is a kind of interference of the files of past life karma account. That is why an uninterrupted state does not remain.

Akram means that the causal _moksha_ ( _karan_ _moksha_ ) has definitely taken place. But whatever karma remain, You have to bring about their settlement through 'knowing-seeing'. As a Knower-Seer, if resolution comes by 'seeing', then the ultimate _moksha_ is attained. That is it; there is nothing else. Then, no matter what kind of karma it is, no matter how sticky it is or how bad; You are free when You remain the Knower-Seer.

## Interference in unfolding karma

When you interfere ( _dakhal_ ) in the unfolding karma, there is intellect ( _buddhi_ ) there and when You do not interfere in the unfolding of karma, there is Gnan at that time. This is the difference in Gnan and intellect ( _buddhi_ ).

**Questioner** : Interference occurs only through the intellect, does it not?

**Dadashri** : All interferences are only from the _buddhi_. This _buddhi_ has caused all the problems; it has caused all the confusion. Gnan does not have any of this. There cannot be any interference in Gnan, can there? Yes 'Chandubhai' will interfere and Gnan 'knows' this, so then You are free.

**Questioner** : When those circumstances arise, they give rise to ignorance and its effects. And if 'I' want to remain in the state of Gnan, how can I do that?

**Dadashri** : 'Chandubhai' remains in the circumstances and You remain in the Self. Nothing will touch You, if You remain separate. The other which is unfolding, is not going to improve. Is that, which has become solidified, likely to improve? As You keep 'seeing' it, You will become free of it.

**Questioner** : What is of Chandubhai will continue discharging.

**Dadashri** : It is a _pudgal_ (non-Self complex), its _dharma_ (function) is separate, and the _dharma_ of the Self is separate. The two have nothing to do with each other. How can you interfere in someone else's _dharma_? 'You' just have to 'see' that 'this is what _pudgal's_ intent is'. All this goes away for the One who knows how to 'see'. And if he does not interfere in the unfolding karma effect, then his work is done. But even if he interferes with it, if he repents and lets go of it immediately, then he is very close to Gnan and so his work will still be done.

God, the Self does not keep any account of 'who gave and who took' or 'we gave to this person and he took it'. How wise is He! He does not have any books at all. The accounts is all clear. His accounts are clear without keeping any book. That is why 'we' have said, that God does not make notes in a book, but the intellect ( _buddhi_ ) does. The intellect will stick its hands and fingers in the unfolding karma. Hey! Whatever you give is also the unfolding of karma and when the other person takes it, it is also the unfolding of karma. Where is the need for You to interfere in it? Is it not the unfolding of karma that gives? One receiving is also unfolding of karma. So what is there to credit-debit in this situation? But this is all interference from the intellect ( _buddhi_ ). If one does not interfere in unfolding karma effects; that is called Gnan. Complete Gnan. You have some Gnan, but _keval Gnan_ (absolute Knowledge) is that when one does not interfere at all in the you to attain _keval Gnan_ unfolding karma. You do have _samyak_ _Gnan_ (the knowledge of the Self) but You will need all this, will You not? You have the Gnan. But all this will interference ( _dakhal_ ) obstruct _keval Gnan_ , will it not?

So You should not interfere in the unfolding karma. If someone is slapping you, you should not ask 'why are you doing that?' 'Chandubhai' has the right to ask that, but not You. Even when 'Chandubhai' speaks, it is based on the unfolding karma. 'You' should remain just the Knower-Seer. 'You' have to understand that, do 'You' not? Falsehood will work in other paths, not in the Akram path. This Knowledge _Gnan_ has been spun very finely and 'seeing' through _keval Gnan_ , 'He is speaking' (Gnani Purush Dadashri) presenting it in a simplified clear way for You. Otherwise 'we—the Gnani' would not say even a word. This is something that you can understand, is it not?

**Questioner** : But, one can only understand that 'this is unfolding of karma' if he has the complete awakened awareness ( _jagruti_ ), no?

**Dadashri** : Yes, otherwise he will not understand unfolding of karma. It requires a lot of awakened awareness before one understands the unfolding of karma. Mahatmas do have some awakened awareness. They have this Gnan, do they not? They have the Gnan, all that remains for them, is to attain _keval Gnan_.

**Questioner** : What is left for attaining _keval Gnan_?

**Dadashri** : You have to see where the intellect still creates interferences. The intellectual interferences done by 'Chandubhai' is not a problem. Except that, You should not get involved in that interference; just 'see' (the unfolding karma) and so You are in Your own 'account', state. When You miss out Your state, then You are said to have interfered in the unfolding karma. It is 'Chandubhai's' unfolding karma, You should not become one with it, and so it will not touch You.

## Everything other than remaining as Knower-Seer is interference

**Questioner** : Does that means that wherever Knowing-Seeing does not remain , there is _dakhodakhal_ interference and its effect?

**Dadashri** : Yes. Everything, besides Knowing-Seeing, is _dakhodakhal_ interference and its reaction. That verily is called _sansaar_ , worldly life. But, the reality is that one cannot remain the Knower-Seer, he does not have that energy ( _shakti_ ) to be so. However, the One who does remain the Knower-Seer, becomes God. But until then, what should one do? He should do _pratikraman_ whenever he has a thought of interfering, and so it is not considered as interfering. Interfering did happen, but the Self turned it around.

**Questioner** : You said a great thing. But not everyone can 'see' in every instance, can he?

**Dadashri** : If one cannot, then he has to do _pratikraman_. You should do _pratikraman_ when you have any thoughts. If You cannot be in exact Knower-Seer state, then do _pratikraman_. If you comment, 'Why are you driving so fast?' then you should do _pratikraman_ for saying that.

**Questioner** : No, one does not think of interfering, and it happens.

**Dadashri** : Yes, it happens. It is not that it will not happen; it happens for sure. But the problem is that one does interfere and that is the cause for this worldly life ( _sansaar_ ).

**Questioner** : When one remains the Knower-Seer, then there is no point of talking about _pratikraman_ , is there?

**Dadashri** : Who has to do _pratikraman_? You (the Self) do not have to do it. Ours is Akram Vignan, so the (discharging) _kashayas_ (anger-pride-deceit-greed) are heavy. Now, when you reprimand someone enough to hurt his feelings, then You have to tell 'Chandubhai', 'Why did you do _atikraman_ ; now do _pratikraman_ for it.' You, the pure Soul ( _Shuddhatma_ ; Self) do not have to do _pratikraman_.

**Questioner** : We, the Self, have to remain the Knower-Seer, and the _pudgal_ (non-Self complex) has to do _pratikraman_.

**Dadashri** : _Atikraman_ is of the _pudgal_ , and so is _pratikraman_.

**Questioner** : Yes, if we understand that much, then not much confusion remains.

## Knowing-Seeing instantly

**Questioner** : One has to just 'see' all the activity ( _kriya_ ) of 'Chandubhai', does he not?

**Dadashri** : 'You' have become the 'seer' of all 'Chandubhai's' activities. 'You' should remain in the 'Self', the 'Knowing-Seeing' state only should be there, then where is the problem?

**Questioner** : So, when I am talking to you now, 'I' just have to 'see' what 'Chandubhai' is saying.

**Dadashri** : Yes, if You do not 'see', then You will have to 'see' that file again.

**Questioner** : Yes, not afterwards but it should be 'seen' simultaneously.

**Dadashri** : When You do not 'see', that much is the lack of awareness.

**Questioner** : Whenever an incident is happening, 'I' should be its Knower-Seer. If the awareness comes later, that is of no use, is it?

**Dadashri** : Still, it is enough even if it cmes in 'Your' awareness ( _khyal_ ) afterwards.

## What if the file goes without being 'seen'?

**Questioner** : If the awareness is not there during eating and when the awareness comes later, at that time 'the one eating is separate and 'I' am separate,' is applied then...

**Dadashri** : It is separate, is it not?

**Questioner** : But I became bound because 'I' had not kept it separate.

**Dadashri** : 'You' will have to do the final settlement ( _nivedo_ ) the next time. 'You' will have to 'see' this file again. Once the file leaves without being 'signed' off, then You will have to 'sign' it when it comes again. It should never be allowed to leave without a 'signature' (Seeing).

**Questioner** : So, what does 'signing' mean?

**Dadashri** : 'Seeing' it is 'signing' it. If it goes away without You 'seeing' it; it means it remains to be 'signed'. It will have to leave with a 'signature'. So can the boss be blamed for that? One signature is needed.

**Questioner** : Please say something more about the signature? How does that signature work?

**Dadashri** : You 'see' the file as the Knower-Seer and it leaves.

**Questioner** : But when one sits down to eat, he says, 'The 'eater' is eating, and 'I', the 'non-eater' merely 'knows' it.' Then he eats properly in peace, but should there not be a 'signature' of separation in that in every second?

**Dadashri** : No, it need not be like that. Wherever a mistake happens, You have to 'see'.

**Questioner** : Even after ten minutes into eating, the awareness had not come. Today, after a month and a half, I realized that I did not have the awareness that day, so the signature is pending there...

**Dadashri** : It will be signed when you sit down to eat again.

**Questioner** : What about the one that was missed to sign the last time, what will become of that?

**Dadashri** : 'You' will have to sign again, will You not?

**Questioner** : Whatever I missed in the past, all that I 'see' now, is that considered as having signed them? If I analyse with awareness, where I had missed 'seeing', what will be its result?

**Dadashri** : What consequence? That very file will not come again for correction.

**Questioner** : When one forgets to sign, is that considered a mistake?

**Dadashri** : Then what? Is it not a mistake?

**Questioner** : And what is the result of such a mistake?

**Dadashri** : Whatever files arise in front of You, You have to sign them. If two or four files come together, then three will get left out, will they not? Why worry about that? Sixty of the ninty files are gone; the remaining ones will come back.

**Questioner** : After an hour, I realize that I forgot to 'know' and 'see', so if that is 'seen' and 'known' afterwards, will it be considered signed and therefore done?

**Dadashri** : You will be free of them.

**Questioner** : So, is there a rule that they will come back in next life?

**Dadashri** : Some of those will go away in the next life.

**Questioner** : Any circumstance that leaves without being seen by the Knower-Seer, will it have to be suffered again at some time?

**Dadashri** : 'You' will have to 'see' it again.

**Questioner** : If it comes in memory an hour later and _pratikraman_ is done for it, then?

**Dadashri** : Benefit is there if the memory comes, no? It will then become insignificant. If it comes repeatedly, then it will wash off with _pratikraman_.

**Questioner** : Does that get settled ( _nikal_ ) in this very life, or does it remain pending for the next life?

**Dadashri** : Whatever files are settled with equanimity, most of them get settled in this very life. Some files may remain and it may come back in the next life. But the religion of _purushartha_ (following the Gnan and the five Agnas), is there! So in everything there is freedom for both (settle in this life or next).

## That is where it remains to be settled

When it is not 'Seen' or 'Known', then that discharge _bhaav_ (intent, _raag-dwesh_ here) will come back to be settled, but it is still a discharge _bhaav_.

**Questioner** : So if _upayoga_ (applied awareness as the Self) is not there after attaining Gnan, will that discharge come again?

**Dadashri** : Yes, if the signature does not happen, then that 'letter' will come back for Your signature; that much is the loss.

**Questioner** : So, then does that loss get paid up the next time around?

**Dadashri** : It definitely will be. What else can happen, what else is Your business? Right now, in this hurry, time is less and the letters (files) are abundant. So, few letters are left out from being signed. The second time around, there will be more time and fewer letters, so they will be settled in full. If one understands that it is _nikali_ (settling), then there is no problem. Otherwise he will have to settle (settle by 'signing') with them again and again. There is no way out. As long as it is not stamped and signed 'it is pure' on the file, it will keep coming back. When the _pudgal_ (non-Self complex) becomes pure, they will not come.

## Awareness increases by diverting attention

**Questioner** : Is a file an individual?

**Dadashri** : It can be anything.

**Questioner** : Even thoughts are considered a form of files, are they not? A thought that is in a form of a file, is it better to do _pratikraman_ for it or does it have to be 'seen'?

**Dadashri** : When a thought comes, He will definitely 'see' it. When You 'see' those thoughts, they become cleared. 'You' do recognize the ones you do not like, do you not? You have to 'see' even the ones you like. To not make them 'likable' is called 'seeing'.

Thought is born in the mind, one remains away from it if he does not like it or he becomes one ( _tanmayakaar_ ) with it if he likes it. He does not become one with the thought if he does not like it, he stays away from it and so he becomes Knower-Seer of them. Now, in thoughts that he likes, he has been given the Gnan of Knower-Seer, so when he 'sees' the file again, it becomes cleared. It becomes clear only through the process of 'seeing', there is no other solution. If you do not know how to 'see', then arrange another process. You can recite the _Charan_ Vidhi; you can read it.

Whatever stock of karma that was stored in the past life unfolds, if You do not pay attention to it, it (the karma) gets disposed. When You do not attend pay any significant attention to it, then it will leave, on its own, even if it is full of garbage. When you pay attention to it ( _dhyan aapvoo_ ), become _tanmayakar_ (engrossed) in it, that is called a _vikalp_ ('I am Chandulal'). Therefore 'You' should continue to 'see' it, or 'do something else' within, so that it becomes useless (exactly discharged).

**Questioner** : So, there are two ways, are there not? Either 'I' do not pay attention to it and become occupied in the Vidhi or something else, or I remain its Knower.

**Dadashri** : Remain the Knower ( _Gnata_ ), if not, then there is that other way.

**Questioner** : Hence, the tubers are dissolved in either of those two ways.

**Dadashri** : Yes, and when thought of dying comes, he does not become _tanmayakar_ (engrossed) in it. Nothing like that happens but he realizes that it is harmful and so he remains separate from it. But he becomes _tanmayakar_ when finds it tasteful, pleasant.

**Questioner** : But he will exercise caution if he understands that there is danger in that which is likable and pleasant.

**Dadashri** : Yes.

**Questioner** : When a thought arises and 'I' do not pay attention to it, is that considered as settled, or will it leave giving some other kind of an effect?

**Dadashri** : Yes. It will settle and empty.

**Questioner** : Now in all this, when a thought comes, You said two things. One is to remain the Knower-Seer of it, and the second is not to pay attention to it. You said that in either process, the thought falls off, then where is the difference between the two?

**Dadashri** : There is greater benefit in remaining the Knower-Seer, there is lesser benefit in the other.

**Questioner** : What benefit? What do you mean by greater benefit?

**Dadashri** : Knowing-Seeing is real _purushartha_ ; nothing measures in comparision with that.

**Questioner** : But what is the difference between the two? So what is paying attention elsewhere and what is considered as Knowing-Seeing?

**Dadashri** : If you cannot remain the Knower-Seer, then pay attention somewhere else. Read the _Navkar Mantra_ or say some other _vidhi._

Bus traffic prevents You from seeing the posters

**Questioner** : Whatever my 'discharge' unfolds, I just keep 'seeing' it; I do not do anything else. Is that fine?

**Dadashri** : Yes, that is fine.

**Questioner** : Why does Gnan not remain constantly? Why does it go down again and then come up again?

**Dadashri** : It does not go down. It will not go down, once it has risen higher. Gnan will remain as Gnan. One cannot see anything, once he becomes blind. But You can still 'see', can ou not? (Gnan does not go away).

' _Kevad nijswabhavnu_ , _akhand vartey Gnan,_

Only the absolute natural state of the Self, the experiential Gnan prevails

_Kahiye keval Gnan tey_ , _deha chhata nirvana.'_

That is called absolute Gnan, the final liberation is there despite being in a body.

-Shrimad Rajchandra

'He' says that inspite of having a body, he is in _nirvana_ (absolutely free).

**Questioner** : Dada, it is very difficult to become in the state of _akhand_ continuous uninturrupted Gnan.

**Dadashri** : It does not take long for the interrupted Gnan to become uninterrupted. The one whose Gnan has become interrupted, should not worry about it becoming uninterrupted. It has become interrupted in order to become uninterrupted.

**Questioner** : Dada, what happens is that, there is awareness ( _laksha_ ) when I start any activity, but then I lose that awareness for half hour when I am into that activity. When that activity is over, then the conviction of the Self _pratiti_ comes.

**Dadashri** : What is that like? I will explain it to you. If you sit on the slope of Kothi (court house in Baroda), where four roads meet, will you be able to see anything across the road, when a bus comes? So as long as the buses continue to come, you will not be able to continuously see across the road. Sooner or later they will stop coming and going. By night they will stop altogether.

**Questioner** : Dada, you gave such a beautiful elementary school level example!

**Dadashri** : Yes, but what else? It will help, will it not? The _mahatma_ gets anxious as to 'when will it (Gnan) become uninterrupted and continuous?' It is not worth worrying about. When these 'buses' (files) stop, you will be able to 'see' without inturruption, it is continuous. Your Gnan is verily continuous. All these buses are raising the objections, and it is the circumstance of buses. And those circumstances are prone to disassociation ( _viyogi_ ) by nature. They will quickly pass. 'You' do not create new circumstances anymore.

**Questioner** : Dada, one has to sit with You for us ten days to understand this, and here , You explained in just one sentence, that it is the buses that run in the middle and obstruct 'our' vision. From this one should understand, that 'why should I worry unnecessarily?'

**Dadashri** : This is verily Your _moksha_. It is just the 'buses' (files) that come and go, you cannot say anything to them. 'You' cannot say anything because of _moksha_. It could be a double decker or a single decker bus, and you will also not be able to see anything if an elephant were to pass by. Now they are all circumstances and as many as there are, will come and leave and and thereafter, the Gnan will remain uninterrupted. It is continuous ( _akhand_ ) for sure. It does not remain continuous, but for some 'Dada' does remain continuously, does it not?

So, You will understand it this way, continuous! Look how much entanglement and anxiety there was about 'it became interrupted; when will it become uninterrupted?' Now whose _badha_ (a vow taken in ignorant state by the devotee in front of a celestial being image to fast etc., to get a desired result in life) will you keep? 'This'- the awakened awareness vision, is continuous for sure. Do you now understand uninterrupted? It seemed difficult that 'Oh! When will this end and when will it remain continuous?' You have come to the other end, where there is uninterrupted vision! One just needs practice here ('Seeeing', 5 Agnas). This is Akram Vignan, so it is necessary to come in touch with it. It is received just once. The awakened awareness ( _jagruti_ ), from it, does not ever leave You. Anyone who has met Me once and taken Gnan, His awakened awareness never leaves him.

Now, to remain the Knower-Seer is _charitra_ – the conduct as the Self. But You cannot remain so, because you have thousands of files that possess you. How can You remain as the Knower-Seer, when the 'buses' just keep on coming and going in the middle? You say that you cannot see because of the 'buses'; it is there (the Self), but you cannot see it because of the 'buses' (files). And I ask you, 'Have they been arranged (charged) by you someone else?' So you say, 'Yes, it is my own arrangement.' I ask, 'Even the double decker buses also?' and you say, 'Yes, even the double decker ones.' It is the game that you yourself had arranged. My 'buses' have all stopped, Your's are still running, are they not?

**Questioner** : When the bus comes, the 'seeing' stops. So then what do I have to see?

**Dadashri** : The _Gneyas_ (that which is to be known) will be 'seen'. This Self is like a mirror. Place the Self instead of the mirror, then whatever is in front of the mirror, for example a decorated pole will be 'reflected'-'seen.' Then all of a sudden the pole is not reflected-'seen' and 'he' will shout, 'I can't see the pole anymore.' And the answer is, 'the buses are in the way'.

The Self is the Knower-Seer. It does not 'see' the way these eyes do. Everything is reflected in it. Is there any doing of any activity in the Knowing-Seeing? When things are reflected ( _jhadakey_ ) in the mirror, does the mirror have to make any effort towards that? If you pass infront of it, you will be able to see your image in it.

## Do not look for the traffic to clear

**Questioner** : How can I stop those 'buses' (files) from coming in front of me?

**Dadashri** : You do not have to stop them. However many have been decided upon, You have to let that many pass. You do not have to stop anything. When they are passing, You should have in your awareness that the other side is there. This is an account of past life. These buses pass by according to the law.

**Questioner** : I am looking to see how I can stop the buses.

**Dadashri** : No, 'You' do not have to stop the buses. If you try to stop them them, who will? You have become _Shuddhatma_ – the pure Soul.

**Questioner** : But I do not like it within, that these buses are passing. I feel that these buses are passing and I should stop them now.

**Dadashri** : Yes. 'Chandubhai' does not like that. 'You' like it, don't 'You'? So, tell 'Chandubhai' that this is all an account, therefore do not worry. All kind of different buses come, don't they?

**Questioner** : Very heavy ones.

**Dadashri** : Is that so? 'We' do not have any buses anymore. Everything has come for 'us' and it is over. That design is over. Now, _galan_ (effect; discharge) is occurring of what was _puran_ filled (cause; charge). Your inner intent should be that, it is better if _galan_ occurs quickly and it all gets settled. You are asking 'how can it be stopped?' Everything will be ruined if you stop it.

**Questioner** : No. It all comes to 'Chandubhai', but it all has to be settled. Once that happens, there will be bliss.

**Dadashri** : Such a time will come one day; it will really come. Once they pass, You will be able to 'see'. Until then it will remain in your _pratiti_ (conviction). When you 'see' it again, it will come into Your _laksha_ (attentive awareness). When a file comes; when a 'bus' is passing by, it remains in your _pratiti_ (conviction) without fail.

## Just 'see' the movie of life

**Questioner** : There is a lot of friction in 'knowing and seeing'. So, whatever circumstances arise, I get swept by them.

**Dadashri** : Who is the one getting swept into them? You are _Shuddhatma_ , how can _Shuddhatma_ be swept into them? It is the _pudgal_ (non-Self complex) by the name of Chandubhai that gets swept into it.

**Questioner** : Stillness ( _sthirata_ ) should remain in Knowing-Seeing, right?

**Dadashri** : No, such stillness will not remain. On the contrary, you will have problem if it did. What are you going to see if the movie were to become still? It should continue running.

**Questioner** : No, it does continue but I should not move along with it, I should remain still, that is all.

**Dadashri** : No, You should continue to 'see'. The 'Seer' is always still. The Seer never gets swept into circumstances. It is because You do not 'see', that it becomes a wrong practice within. When you maintain the state of 'Knowing' ( _Gnayak bhaav_ ), then You will never be drawn swept in, but if you become overcome by emotions or feelings, then you will be drawn in. People get drawn in even into a movie when they become overcome by emotions. They even cry! Hey! Why do you cry when you are supposed to be just watching the movie? The fool will cry when he is supposed to just watch. And would you enjoy watching a movie, if it was the same throughout?

**Questioner** : No I will not enjoy it, Dada.

**Dadashri** : Yes. You will see a wedding at times, then at times you will see fighting and then a kidnapping; then you will enjoy it, right? And if the movie was only about a wedding going on all the time, you will not enjoy it, will you? So you have to see this whole film. You never lose any bliss; that is our Vignan.

'You' have the complete energy within you, but it remains unmanifest. Why does it remain partly unmanifest? That is because you still like all this. All the same, after this Gnan, lot of this liking has gone down, has it not? As it goes down, the energy of the Self will manifest more. That does not mean that you have to start having contempt for things you like. But, when one becomes _tanmayakar_ (engrossed) in it, he forgets about His own energy and becomes _tanmayakar_ in it; that means he likes it. Eat and drink, but do not become _tanmayakar_ in them. 'See', when you go to a movie, when you see a good-looking woman or a good looking man in it, you do not go and hug them, do you? And if you see someone being beaten in a movie, do you shout out, 'Hey you, why are you beating him'? Do not hit him', does anyone say that? You understand that you are to just 'see' what is going on, you are not to say anything.

Did you watch movies years ago? You have seen one in those days, have you not? You did not say, 'why are you hitting him?' did you? Yes, you just have to 'see' what is going on'. The movie is not telling you to take it along with you. It tells you to 'see' and leave. Now what can the poor movie do when you do the wrong thing? What happens when you go out coated with 'glue' (attachment-abhorrence)? Whatever is out there will all stick to you. So, you have to wash off the glue and then go there.

## Account of karma cleared through 'seeing'

**Questioner** : I am aware when a mistake is happening; I even scold 'Chandubhai' that what he is doing is not right. But he still does not listen, and he goes ahead and does it anyway.

**Dadashri** : There is no problem with that, because the 'Seer' is pure ( _shuddha_ ). There is purity and impurity in the one he is seeing, and that too is a relative vision. However, to the 'Seer', there is no purity or impurity. To the 'seer' everything is verily the same. Right or wrong is in the minds of people. However, there is no right or wrong in the vision of the Lord (the absolute Self). Society has right-wrong. The Lord says, ' 'You' become free when You 'see''. 'You' are separate and they (files) are separate. So what happened? When You let go of the account of karma ( _heesab_ ) by 'seeing' them, then You are free and they are free. When You let go of the account of karma which was bound through not 'seeing', by 'seeing', then You become free.

## Neither the film, nor the 'Seer' gets tired

All this that comes to You, these are all _gneyas_ (that which is to be Known). When You become the Knower of them, you will attain the absolute state ( _keval Gnan_ ). Now all that remains are things to be 'known'. Whatever seeds were sown within, they bear fruits now. 'You' should keep 'seeing' whatever sprouts. You will lose the path of _moksha_ if you become _tanmayakar_ (engrossed) in them. 'You' have been given _moksha_ in your hand. Now questions will not arise for You, You will have the complete solution. These questions that arise; when things sprout within; you become involved in it. What is it to You if they sprout? The movie you see, it does not tell you to become one with it. 'You' have to 'see' that movie, and when You do that, they will go away. You have become the Knower-Seer in eternal bliss. If You 'see' every activity of the entire life, like a movie, then not a single part of it will touch You. Is the 'Seer' of the movie and the movie always separate or are they one?

**Questioner** : They are separate.

**Dadashri** : Can the one acting in the movie see the movie? No, the 'seer' of the movie can see the movie. But the whole world is in the movie, and You are the 'seer', so 'see' the movie, see that 'the working of this world is a movie that You are 'seeing' '. So the fact are very short and easy to understand. There is nothing else. Both, the movie and the 'seer' of the movie do not get tired. The 'Seer' cannot get tired, can he? The movie does not get tired.

## The settlement of files is the function of the pudgal

**Questioner:** Sometimes the files are not settled with equanimity.

**Dadashri:** The One who 'knows' that the file is not settling with equanimity is _Atma dharma_ (the religion-function of the Self) and whether the file is settled with equanimity or not, is _pudgal_ _dharma_ (religion or duty of the non-Self complex of thoughts, speech and acts). _Dharma_ (the intrinsic nature and function) of the Self and the non-Self are different. What is 'our' concern if the _pudgal_ (the non-Self complex) did not fulfill its religion? 'We' 'knew' for sure, didn't we? 'We, the Self' 'knew' so 'we' are in 'our' _dharma_ ; our role. It may or may not be the _dharma_ of the _pudgal_ (the non-Self), 'we' do not have any concerns with that. _Pudgal dharma_ is different and _Atma dharma_ is different. _Atma dharma_ means to keep 'knowing' continuously, that is _sampoorna_ _jagruti_ full awareness. To 'know' the stirring of even one _parmanu_ (subatomic particle) is called the _Atma,_ the Self. Do not get involved in the trouble of the non-Self ( _pudgal_ ). The _pudgal_ can become restless in a moment. To keep on 'knowing' is 'Your' religion and to become restless or to have _matabhed_ (separation due to difference of opinions) is the old familiar practice. Liking something when it increases and disliking it when it decreases; that should no longer be 'our' religion. That is the former familiar practice. So 'You' should effectively say to it, 'thus is not mine, this is not mine'. These are the effects (karma) of the neighbor, the non-Self complex. Dada has said 'no' to all this, and yet if you believe it to be Yours, then what else can Dada do?

So in this manner, 'we' have to settle the matter with equanimity. Then freedom is attained. Thereafter even if it is bad, even it is disgraceful in the eyes of the world, it is not obstructing 'You', and 'You' just 'see' that. The 'seer' does not have any relation with that which is being seen. No matter how bad the object being seen is, even then the 'seer – _drashta_ ' does not have any attachment ( _raag_ ) or abhorrence ( _dwesha_ ). The 'Seer'( _jonaar_ ) does not have any give or take ( _leva-deva_ ) at all. The worst of _bhaavs_ (intent) may arise within, which are such that the whole world would vilify you; and such _bhaav_ may come forth in the discharge and become openly evident, even then 'You' should keep 'seeing' them. 'Oh ho ho! How come Chandubhai? I used to think of you as a worthy person but you are an unworthy fellow!' 'You' should speak this way a little.

**Questioner:** That is correct. But what if bad intents ( _bhaav_ ) arise?

**Dadashri:** 'See' the bad _bhaav_ that happens. If bad behavior happens, 'see' that too.

**Questioner:** I should keep 'seeing' the speech that comes forth, too?

**Dadashri:** If speech comes forth, then also keep 'seeing' that. When it comes out, remain separate. The separation may happen after a little time, but the separation should happen. It separates after a while, but it is 'seen' after a step within (internal adjustment of delayed awareness) and therefore, it will be over in the next step. And 'We' see that when Ambalal is speaking, this Gnani Purush can 'see' all that. Whatever he does 'He' can 'see' all that. So therefore You have to 'do' this, You have to do these _bhaav_ (deep inner intents of the _Gnata-Gnayak_ ). At this time if separation does not happen readily with the first step, then a step more; that is why 'we' mention the two to three more lifetimes it may take.

## 'Knowing' the speaker is the ultimate Gnan

When 'Chandubhai' is talking and You keep 'seeing' what he is saying, that is correct Gnan, the ultimate Gnan. After this remain two steps, which are very small. If the 'Self' 'knows' what 'Chandubhai' is saying; if that much is attained, then it is more than enough.

Lord Krishna did this. He kept 'seeing' what Krishna was doing. When the war of Mahabharata was fought, did Lord Krishna himself fight it? No, Lord Krishna kept 'seeing' what Krishna was doing. This is all that needs to be 'seen'.

## This is called the Knower-Seer

What does Knower-Seer mean? The ultimate meaning is that, the Self Knows and Sees, in every way, what the 'self' ( _potey_ ) is doing within. What the mind-intellect-chit-ego ( _potey_ ) are doing; nothing else. And what state do you ( _mahatmas_ ) have to come into? The state in which, You can see Chandubhai moving around. When 'Chandubhai' is moving around and You sit and watch, You will 'see' 'Chandubhai' at that time. You should be able to 'see' the whole body of 'Chandubhai'. You should be able to see his external part, the inner will take longer. When the 'external part' is seen separate, One begins to become _vitarag_ , and then he can become complete _vitarag_.

Now what is meant by the 'external part'? What did you used to do before (attaining Gnan), when you saw your son passing by and his money was falling out of his pocket? You would get all excited and upset, 'Hey, stop. You are dropping your money! Stop!' Everything inside would become restless because ego was alive. It was alive as 'Chandubhai'. But now that You have become the Knower-Seer, whether he drops money or anything else, you may alert him, 'Son, your money is falling out from your pocket.' Then 'You' do not do anything after that, and there is no restlessness at all. There is no problem even if you do not alert him. There is no reaction of being alive at all (dead to the ego).

This vision will still go higher. If the ego were alive today, you would have kicked up a big fuss, but now even if a mistake or harm is going to happen, You have to remain the Knower-Seer. What would you do if you were dead? What if mistakes happen after that? It is all like that. If your daughter drops and breaks a precious glass, You remain the Knower-Seer, that is all. Do not say even a word; live as if you are dead.

**Questioner** : Dada, in a very short time, You gave us the final state of Krupadudev Srimad Rajchandra (Gnani Purush 1867-1901)!

**Dadashri** : Yes, then the ultimate ( _kalyan_ ) is accomplished, that is good. Ultimately, when 'Chandubhai comes and goes, You will 'see' him, 'Oh! Come Chandubhai', You will also 'see' him separate when he is talking. You will 'see' 'Chandubhai' massaging 'Dada's' feet with oil. And when 'You' say, 'Chandubhai gave a good massage'; that is the ultimate!

**Questioner** : Does one see this as a separate physical form or he sees it separate through understanding?

**Dadashri** : First You 'see' him separate through understanding ( _samaj_ ) then gradually You will 'see' him physically separate, walking around, just like you see someone else. Do you see this man, coming and going, through understanding?

**Questioner** : No, physically.

**Dadashri** : When You 'see' like that, that is the 'knowing-seeing'. Therefore, the Self (Atma) is separate. Do not have too much of an expectation about such a state. It is considered a very high state. Whatever state You have been given, if it becomes firmly established, that is more than enough. If you try to set a goal, then you will miss out on this, as well as the other.

**Questioner** : You said that 'Chandubhai' will appear separate, walking around, there should be that much separation, but the 'Seer' is within 'Chandubhai', is He not?

**Dadashri** : That is when You have to 'see', do You not? Despite being within 'Chandubhai', You can 'see' Chandubhai separate. That is the ultimate state. For You it is more than enough if You attain the state that I have said. When you reach that station; all the other stations will come.

# [2.2] Continue to 'See' what 'Chandubhai' is doing

## This is the path of moksha

The real nature of this world is that the scientific circumstantial evidencs does everything and You have to keep 'knowing' all that; that verily is the path of liberation. Those in the _kramic_ path (the traditional path to Self-realization) will ask, 'then is there no Atma (Self) in it?' The Atma is inclusive in all that. One of the evidence of the self does come into it. The evidence of the self, which is the _vibhavik bhaav_ (the belief of 'I am Chandubhai'). The altered state ( _vibhavik_ _dasha_ ) of the altered atma ( _vibhavik_ _atma_ ); so this evidence comes in. It is not the true 'doer' in it, but its doership is instrumental. What is more, everything happens when other circumstances come together. Due to pressure of those circumstances, _vibhav_ (intent not 'of' the Self) occurs, and from the _vibhav_ , other circumstances come together.

So now, when scientific circumstantial evidence does that, 'You' have to keep 'seeing', then it is called _keval Gnan_. When the hand is being cut, nature is the one cutting it, when 'You' continue to 'know' all that; that is _keval Gnan_. And as long as any suffering is felt, then there is a lack in the degrees of _keval Gnan_.

_Keval Gnan_ can be attained in this experiencing joy (like in singing 'Dada Bhagwan na aseem jai jai kar ho' etc.). Right now _keval Gnan_ absolute Knowledge does not happen, but its degrees increase. One is the Self, but if the external (non-Self) comes into joy, then that is it. The main doubt about the Self is already gone, You have become absolutely doubt-free ( _nishank_ ); so what else do You need?

If depression is going on, then keep 'seeing' the depression, and if there is elevation, also keep 'seeing' that. Keep 'seeing' what is going on. Depression is bound to follow any elevation. And elvation will follow depression. Therefore, keep 'seeing', whatever happens. Up and down, down and up.

**Questioner** : Does this Gnan become stronger in time?

**Dadashri** : As understanding takes hold, one becomes Self-contained. All You have to do is 'understand' ( _darshan_ , vision) it only. The Gnan that I have given You; has removed all the veils (of ignorance over the Self). The doership ( _kartapanu_ ) is gone. All the causes are gone. Now, only the effects (of past karma) remain. How are You to suffer those effects? For that, understand this for once and all! Everything will be resolved through understanding, and it will be so well contained that only the 'knowing' remains! The other one (the non-Self, Chandulal) will continue swearing and the Self will continue 'knowing' that; that is all. Will it not remain so?

**Questioner** : Yes, Dada.

**Dadashri** : Cursing does not touch the body. If a mosquito bites, You have to 'know' even that. If You are the 'knower', then You are separate from the body, and if You do not remain the 'knower', you are in the body.

## When the bad is 'known' as bad, it will leave

**Questioner** : Now when a file comes, 'I' settle it with equanimity. Whatever were the entanglements of the _prakruti_ (the relative self; the mind-body-speech complex), 'I' keep 'seeing' them. Does the _prakruti_ become cleansed ( _chokhhi_ ) as 'I' keep 'seeing', or not?

**Dadashri** : Yes of course it does! _Prakruti_ will continue to become clean. As You 'see', Your energies of 'seeing' will keep increasing, because it multiplies and cleanses the _prakruti_. When You 'know' it is bad, then it will go away. The moment You 'know' anything that is bad as bad; it begins to leave. It will vacate the place. It will remain as long as you believe it to be good. There is no need to resort to any harsh methods. 'You' just need the use of Gnan. When the negative comes, You 'know' that, do You not? Therefore, it will gradually go away. It will go away after a little while. 'You' do not lose anything. 'You' lose only when You do not 'know' it.

Nature is such an art that the world will never come to an end, not even if God wants it to. That is why the Lord used patience and said 'see' whatever happens'. And the One who wants to become free will have to exercise this kind of patience. The One, who cannot afford this worldly life, if He continues to 'see' whatever goes on; He will become free. 'We' do the same thing.

## Sang, asang and ekant

**Questioner** : Separation does happen in the Gnan You give in the Gnan Vidhi, but is any residual weakness left in it, on my part?

**Dadashri** : No, no weakness at all! Where do the tendencies ( _vruti_ ) go to and where do they come from? And what do they bring back? And what do they take away? 'You' have to 'see' all that. And for now, do not have any wrong expectations of any more than that. It is more than enough, if You can 'see' for now. The Lord has said that 'even if You cannot 'see' the tendencies, just check to 'see' whether attachment-abhorrence ( _raag_ - _dwesh_ ) are happening or not'. When one says 'no', then it is over!

Now, what do You have to 'see'? 'You' have to 'see' the unfolding of the karma of the _pudgal_ the non-Self complex. If the unfolding is heavy, the 'seeing' will be dim and and foggy. So You will not understand how to 'see' it and you will miss out. If the unfolding is light, the unfolding happens on one side, and You will keep 'seeing' it. To 'see' Chandubhai is the ultimate Gnan.

**Questioner** : For maintaining continued applied awareness ( _upayoga_ ) of 'seeing' this, what _kriya_ activity should I do?

**Dadashri** : The circumstances should be for this side; they should be towards _satsang_.

**Questioner** : I do not have such circumstances. So is it better if there is solitude?

**Dadashri** : Solitude is more beneficial, is it not? But where can one find solitude? Where can one find such merit karma that one will have circumstance of solitude? These circumstances are themselves the cause of pain, are they not?

**Questioner** : Now, what do You call solitude?

**Dadashri** : When other circumstances do not bother you. There is no one to cause interference; you are indepedent. Then, You have to continue 'seeing' what 'Chandubhai' is doing. When you set the _upayoga_ (applied awareness), then You will be able to 'see'.

**Questioner** : If 'I' 'know' what came and what left, then...

**Dadashri** : Then that verily is Gnan. 'You' will not 'see' the whole of Chandubhai. But You will 'see' what comes and what leaves, within, that is the first Gnan. Then it gradually becomes whole. The world is not aware of what comes and goes. First, You have to see the _sthul_ (gross). That is how it will advance to _sukshma_ (subtle) level. Then eventually You will 'see' yourself completely separate.

**Questioner** : I cannot see that.

**Dadashri** : That will come gradually. It does not happen right away. One cannot do that even for an hour. For 'us' too, it does not happen exactly, if there is a circumstance.

**Questioner** : So You too say that solitude ( _ekant_ ) is a good thing.

**Dadashri** : But you should not create solitude by pushing others away. Circumstances by nature are such that they will automatically pass.

**Questioner** : If we look at it that way then no circumstance related thing touches us. If we want to remain _asang_ (unassociated and unaffected by any circumstance), amidst all (circumstances or people), then it is possible.

**Dadashri** : You can, you can happily be so. 'You' are indeed _asang_. Such is this _Shuddhatma_. I ( _Shuddhatma_ ) am verily _asang_. I am verily _nirleyp_ (no _bhaav_ can touch it, unsmearable). That other belief ('I am Chandubhai') is broken and so it is gone. It was a wrong belief. That is why people say, 'How can I be called ' _asang'_?' Do they not? Whereas You understand that the wrong belief is destroyed.

**Questioner** : Is solitude beneficial to our file number one or not?

**Dadashri** : It is beneficial if it it is there. Solitude ( _ekant_ ) is very beneficial. Even when everyone is sitting around, 'we' lie down, close 'our' eyes and look for solitude. Otherwise if the eyes are open and someone looks at 'us', then solitude will not remain, will it? Do you experience that?

## 'See' the one who has become engrossed

**Questioner** : _Agnani_ (one who has not attained the Self) does not have the awareness of this side (the Self), so he cannot 'see'.

**Dadashri** : It is like this. When a good thought comes, he will say, 'I had that thought'. He is always _tanmayakar_ (engrossed). If he does not like the thought, then he remains separate from it. If he has a thought of, 'What if I have to go to jail?' he will remain separate from that thought, otherwise he will not become _tanmayakar_ in the pleasant thoughts. Whereas You 'see' all the _gneya_ (that which is to be known) in the mind. 'You' can 'see' all the states ( _avastha_ ) of the mind, 'see' all the states of the _chit_ , 'see' all the states of the intellect, 'see' all the states of the ego, so You 'see' all the states of the _antahkaran_. (mind-intellect-chit-ego) You can 'see' whether the ego has gone up or down. Ordinary people; those who have not attained Gnan, cannot 'see' all that.

**Questioner** : If a bad thought comes and then immediately goes away. That is all, there is nothing else; so what is that?

**Dadashri** : They will all go away for sure. If a car approaches you, there may be fear from a thought of, 'what if it hits me'? That goes on within; 'You' have to keep 'seeing' that. Whatever happens in your mind, whether it is _udvega_ (extreme emotional upheavel and agitation) or it is _adhovega_ (depression ), keep 'seeing' that _vega_ (motion of the mind). 'You' should remain Knower-Seer. The rest is inanimate ( _jada_ ). They look like _chetan_ (the Self), but they are _jada_ (inanimate, the non-Self). Now, whatever comes in the mind, You keep 'seeing' those thoughts. Everything will settle down when You do that. It may seem that everything has become upside down, but nothing like that has happened at all.

**Questioner** : When a thought arises, I become engrossed with it. When the chit shows photographs, is that considered as becoming _tanmayakar_ engrossed?

**Dadashri** : That is discharge, is it not? There is no problem with that. 'You' 'know' that the chit is showing that. The Knower is separate. The 'doer' is the one doing the _bhanjghad_ (constructing and destroying), but the Knower is separate, is Hee not? 'You' are always separate. You (the Self) are separate and free for sure!

## Doership is the obstacle, not the bad action

All this has to be adjusted and contained with understanding. From the moment You 'know' the fault ( _dosh_ ) in the unfolding of karma, You are free. Then, whether it is a good habit or a bad habit, You have nothing to do with it. You have to be the 'Knower'. _Mahatma_ (the Self) does not have either good habits or bad habits. Good and bad habits are the nature of illusion ( _bhranti_ ). 'Chandubhai'verily is the nature of illusion. This judgement of is due to the account of illusion. They are deemed false here (in the Self). So 'we' made the 'good habits' and 'bad habits' to be put aside, and when 'we' give You Gnan, do 'we' not say 'You' are separate from _punyachar-paapachar_ (meritous conduct-demeritous conduct); completely separate from all dualities? The Self is beyond duality ( _dwandvatita_ ). No matter how bad and terrible faults happen-arise, there is no problem, if You are the Knower ( _Gnata_ ) of them. Anything that happens is happening in someone else's home, what concern is that of Yours? Do you have to cry if one of your neighbors becomes a widower? You go there and cosole him. Even Lord Mahavir kept 'knowing' the unfolding of karma. When bed-bugs bit him, He used to 'know' that the body is restless, and turning sides the entire night. The body cannot tolerate. Only the one with ego can tolerate the suffering. Such a person may tell you that he will not budge even if something bit him. So he makes such a decision. But the Lord does not have any ego, does he? Not an iota of ego.

Now, if I give Gnan to a butcher and he remains in Gnan and continues to 'see' everything through _Atma drashti_ (vision of the the Self); if he does not interfere in others and follows My Agnas; then he will go to _moksha_. The activity as a butcher is not the hindrance, but 'I am doing it' is the hindrance. If for just one life, no matter what happens, You just continue to 'see', and follow My Agnas, then _moksha_ can be attained in one more life; such is this Gnan.

**Questioner** : Instead of curing my self through medicines, is it not better to die saying continuously 'I am _Shuddhatma_?

**Dadashri** : 'Seeing' what happens is better. So the Self comes into its _dharma_ (duty or nature). The mind is in its own _dharma_ , the eyes are in their own _dharma_ , ears are in their own _dharma_. The self (worldly self) used to believe the _dharma_ of others as its own. 'I heard. I had a thought, etc' that self has come into _dharma_ of the Self, it came into the _dharma_ of the Knower-Seer. When it comes into the _Gnaya bhaav_ (the attribute of being the absolute Knower), then that is the end, its work is done.

**Questioner** : If there is the awareness, 'I am _Shuddhatma_...I am _Shuddhatma_ ' and I die then do I become happy?

**Dadashri** : You should not have any intent of leaving or not leaving the body. 'You' (the Self) should just keep 'seeing' the body. Tell it, 'You may leave whenever you want to.' The Knower-Seer is the One who 'sees' that. And if bombs are exploding, or the only cloth that covers the body is being burnt, He 'sees' even that with, 'Oh! This too is burning!'

## There is no Gnayak without the knowledge of the Self

This 'Chandubhai's' body is a _gneya_ (that which is to be 'Known'), and You (the Self) are _Gnata_ (Knower).You are both, the Knower and the Seer, known as the _Gnayak_ , and 'knowing and seeing' is Your _swabhav_ intrinsic nature, there is no other attribute. And this 'Chandubhai is a _drashya_ (that to be seen) and a _gneya_ (that which is to be known). Every 'spare part' of 'Chandubhai' is a _drashya_ and a _gneya_. Similarly, the mind is a _drashya_ and a _gneya_. You just have to 'know' what the mind is thinking. Then You do not have to 'stick your hand' (interfere) in it. Your hand will get burnt, if you do.

Now, without Gnan, one cannot make the mind a _gneya_. Without our Gnan, he will become one with his mind before he can even say anything. And after attaining Gnan, he can remain separate from it, and then he has to keep 'seeing' it. That is all.

You (the Self) should 'know' what this body is doing. If you, the judge, are giving judgement, 'You' should 'know' what the judge is doing. That is 'our' Gnan and what the judge is doing is his own. Each is carrying out his own duty. Do 'You' know the judge or not? He is a good man, and that he is also slightly bad?

**Questioner** : He is somewhat bad too.

**Dadashri** : See, You do know him! Can you say such an impartial thing if you were to say, 'I verily am the judge'?

What is the fruit of attaining Gnan? Where there is _agraha_ (insistence), there is no Gnan. Where there is Gnan, there is no insistence. Gnan means _niragrahi_ (no insistence).

**Questioner** : _Niragrahi_.

**Dadashri** : 'Chandubhai' does the _agraha_ (insists), or _duragraha_ (excessive insistence); to 'know' what he is doing is Gnan. Where is the Gnan when You become Chandubhai? 'I am doing _darshan_ in the temple' or 'I am doing this', You do not have to do all that. 'You' have to 'see' what 'Chandubhai' is doing the _darshan_ of.

## During the entire life, the Knower remains unchanged

**Questioner** : A _drashya_ (scene) or a situation, something that I saw when I was ten or twelve years old, then when I see it at age thirty two, then at age sixty, then at age ninty - is the 'seer' the one and the same?

**Dadashri** : It is the one and the same 'seer'.

**Questioner** : But why does the 'seer' see the difference?

**Dadashri** : It is like this, as experiences changes, all the differences ( _bheda_ ) change. Experience is not the same all the time. When one was five years old, he loved toys, and his experience of that made him believe that there is no pleasure without them. So he used to look there. Now, when he becomes twenty years old, he does not look at it that way. So, as the experience changes, so does the vision of the seer.

**Questioner** : No, but from experiencing that, he says that this is useless. So what he found useful at the age of twenty, he finds usless at the age of forty.

**Dadashri** : He will find it useless for sure.

**Questioner** : But the Self, was the 'Seer' at that time too, it was the Knower-Seer. It is a Knower-Seer even at twenty years of age. Even at forty years...

**Dadashri** : And at the time of leaving (death of the body), the Self is the Knower-Seer. There is no difference in the Self's _Gnan-Darshan_ (Knowledge-Vision), because the Self is not subject to change.

## Knowing bad conduct is itself real conduct

**Questioner** : All this should come into conduct ( _charitra_ ), should it not?

**Dadashri** : There is no need to bring anything in conduct. To Know bad conduct ( _kucharitra_ ) as bad conduct is Conduct ( _Charitra_ , _Atma charitra_ ). To fly high, to feel good and express it ( _masti_ ) because of having good conduct is very dangerous indeed.

**Questioner** : So what about when we have the ego of having achieved _kshayak_ _samkit_ (state where all _kashayas_ are non-existent)...?

**Dadashri** : When 'we' give You Gnan, You will not have ego, but _masti_ may come, and that is wrong.

**Questioner** : So then you are not allowing us any place where we can take any kind of pleasure.

**Dadashri** : Hey, why don't you take bliss from the Self? Why do you have to take illusory pleasure? Do you have go after _masti_ temporary pleasures? With reference to _masti_ , people outside who believe the worldly religion to be the real religion; they are in it. They are all deep taking pleasure with the mind, pleasure of the body and pleasure of the speech. The ascetics, the renunciants, etc., are all in this _masti_. And even then the _masti_ does not remain for the whole day. After a while, they are back to where they were before, whereas here, there should not be any _masti_.

**Questioner** : But we have got rid of all other _masti_ and we now live in the _masti_ of Dada.

**Dadashri** : That is not considered as _masti_ (deriving pleasure from mind speech or body _)_. _Masti_ about one's good conduct (worldly conduct) is harmful. Instead, it is beneficial to 'know' bad conduct ( _kucharitra_ , hurtful conduct). The 'Knowing' ( _jaaney_ ) of bad conduct is _Atma Charitra_.

**Questioner** : I have 'known' bad conduct but should I now live without deriving pleasure from good conduct?

**Dadashri** : Bliss ( _anand_ ) is there when 'Knowing' is there, for sure, and pain is there when there is 'doing'.

**Questioner** : How can there be bliss at the time when I 'know' my bad conduct? There is hurt related dispassion on knowing this bad conduct.

**Dadashri** : The nature of bad conduct is such that one's 'Knowing' ( _jaanpanu_ ) will be lost. However, if _jagruti_ (awareness as the Self) is elevated enough, then Gnan prevails in bad conduct ( _jaanpanu_ ), then that is considered as the highest _Charitra_ (Conduct).

**Questioner** : But pain, is bound to be felt when the conduct is seen as perverse, no?

**Dadashri** : It is not perverse. There is nothing perverse in the 'eyes' of the Lord; it is so to the society. What does the society say? Therefore, the society is of dualities like, he is a crook and he is straightforward, he is worthy or he is unworthy etc. To the Lord, there is only one thing; they are all _gneyas –_ that to be known.

## Gnani Purush defines dosha

'File number one' will get upset if he was late in eating, in taking a bath, going to the rest room. He will get upset and fight if he is not allowed to go to the rest room. Hey, is going to rest room important? One would say that too, is important. One will know whether it is important or not, if he is not allowed to go. When he (Chandubhai) is brushing his teeth, eating or running around, 'You' should keep 'seeing' him.

**Questioner** : Why should he cause so much fuss? Can he not do without the fuss?

**Dadashri** : Let him do it. He is full of fuss (creating problems). Chandubhai has been full of fuss ( _upadhi_ ) ever since he was born.

**Questioner** : I should tell him, 'Shut up, leave Me alone, how dare you...'

**Dadashri** : No, You should not tell him 'how dare you!' 'You' are not a policeman, You are God. The policemen will say things like 'How dare you!'; You are God, keep 'seeing' what is going on. 'You' are in Your Knower-Seer state and he is in his doer-ship state. The one who is in doer-ship will continue causing difficulties. The _pudgal_ (non-Self complex) is a doer by nature.

**Questioner** : The _pudgal_ wants to take a shower, wash etc. 'We' (the Self) do not want such things, do 'we'?

**Dadashri** : 'You' should continue 'seeing' what 'Chandubhai' is doing. There is no other _dharma_ (duty). 'You' are in Your own nature ( _swabhaav_ ) and 'Chandubhai' is in his. Tell him, 'Wander wherever you want to, that is your nature.' A 'top' (a toy that spins) will fall down when it stops spinning. Until then, it will continue to spin, will it not? So this _pudgal_ non-Self complex is a 'top' too.

The mind 'does' everything, the Self does not.

**Questioner** : _Dosha_ is created through the mind, no?

**Dadashri** : No, if you believe 'I am doing' then _dosha_ arises. As long as the belief, 'I am the doer, I am the doer of the good ( _shubha_ ), I am the doer of the bad ( _ashubha_ )' exists, karma is charged ( _dosha_ ). Returning to the Self, the doer ( _karta_ )-sufferer ( _bhokta_ ) ends. After that karma is not bound; thereafter only _samvar_ (no inflow of new karma) remains.

## This is how my-ness leaves

**Questioner** : What should one do to get rid of _mamata_ ('my-ness') of the mind-speech-body?

**Dadashri** : 'You' just 'see' that _mamata_. Have you ever seen a _holi_ (bonfire lit during the Holi festival)? Do you get pleasure in seeing the holi or sticking your hand in it?

**Questioner** : In watching it.

**Dadashri** : Then 'You' should 'see' this. 'See' 'Chandubhai's _mamata_ my-ness.

**Questioner** : But if bad karma unfolds, will it not go back to the suffering of my-ness?

**Dadashri** : No, nothing will happen. Keep 'seeing' whatever unfolds. If Chandubhai is acting crazy, You have to 'see' even that. That does not cause You any harm. Whatever stock of karma is filled within; it will unfold as him acting crazy at times or if the stock is good, then he will act wisely also.

'You' are _Shuddhatma_ and 'You' do not have to do anything else. Nothing more remains for You after attaining the main thing (the Self). 'You' now have to 'see' what 'Chandubhai' is doing, 'see' whose children he is playing with. 'You' should ask him, 'Whose children are you playing with? Are you playing with your children?' But You have 'see' all that.

**Questioner** : But I cannot remain as the 'Knower'.

**Dadashri** : You cannot remain completely so. 'We—the Gnani Purush' will find another way for You to do so. But You just have to 'see'.

**Questioner** : So 'I' am separate from 'Chandubhai', but it is not apparent in my conduct ( _vartan_ ) yet.

**Dadashri** : It will not be in your conduct. 'You' just have to 'see'. 'You' will 'know' when a thought is bad if it is bad and 'know' good if it is good. Would You not 'know' all that?

**Questioner** : Yes I would.

**Dadashri** : So that One verily is the 'seer' ( _jonaro_ ). That Self is the 'seer'. Where and on who does attachment-abhorrence ( _raag-dwesh_ ) arise for you?

**Questioner** : They do not happen.

**Dadashri** : Then, that is verily the Self. And the Self continues 'seeing' everything. If you have a bad thought or a good thought, the Self 'sees' them, and continues 'seeing' whatever else comes in the mind. When someone says anything, whether it is bad or good, even then _raag-dwesh,_ do not happen and that is the Self. And if any _raag-dwesh_ happens, it is called _sansaar_ (worldly life).

## 'See' the good and the bad without involvement

**Questioner** : What should one do to get rid of past impressions?

**Dadashri** : 'You' do not have anything to do with that, You should 'see', what has happened to 'Chandubhai'. 'You' are separate and so is Chandubhai. Then if Chandubhai is getting upset, 'see' that, and if he is giving flowers, You 'see' that too. 'You' are the Knower-Seer and 'Chandubhai' is the doer, if You maintain that separation, then everything will fit and it will remain forever. After attaining the separation, You have come into the _dharma_ (religion) of the Knower-Seer. Having separated Chandubhai, You have to maintain the intent of separation.

What is to be done in the present? The answer is, 'whatever is being done, Chandubhai does that, 'You' do not have problems with that anymore. Is it criminal or is it a civil case? There is no need to see all that, whether it is good or bad. People make such distinctions, do they not? They will do so as long as they do not have Gnan, distinctions such as 'this is civil and this is criminal'. There may also be a defaulter. You (the Self) have to 'know' the defaulter; that is all. You have come into Knower-Seer nature; You have come in the pure nature ( _shuddha_ _swabhaav_ ). There is nothing for You anymore now. You have to 'see' and 'know' whether he is a defaulter or not. And as long as there is the wordly interaction ( _vyavahar_ ), you may have to keep an account of 'there is still weakness here', 'here it is done well', 'I still have to do this', 'I still need to do _pratikraman_ here'. You have to account for all that as long as there is worldly interaction, do you not? That is what one has to see to, does he not?

As You see the good and the bad, do not become involved with it, ok? That is ultimately a loss from the view of the Self. 'You' do not earn anything by that. So You should let go of the business which does not earn You anything. 'You' did not earn anything from good-bad, did you?

**Questioner** : No. Chandubhai continues to do that.

**Dadashri** : Yes. 'You' keep 'seeing' that.

**Questioner** : Even after listening to Dada's talk; I keep talking about other things, I discuss other things.

**Dadashri** : It is not that You are doing all that, it happens. 'You' just have to 'see' all that. 'You' are not the 'doer'. Show me if You are the doer.

**Questioner** : Is a _nimit_ (someone or something instrumental, evidence in unfolding of karma) that which comes in front of me, or do I become a _nimit_ , for example by going to a wedding etc?

**Dadashri** : In the worldly interactions, going to a wedding etc., comes to you. 'You' do not have to go there; 'Chandubhai' has to go there, does he not? 'We' have not left anything for You to do. I have not given You anything to do.

## Keep 'Seeing' discharge of the charge

One may question how things would work if 'we' become the Knower-Seer? The answer is, _vyavasthit_ _shakti_ (scientific circumstantial evidence) will give the inspiration from within. And based on that, everything will happen for 'Chandubhai'. Even if 'Chandubhai' curses or fights, You have to keep 'seeing' all that. This is all there is to our Vignan.

Whatever was filled, charged (cause, _puran_ ), is emptying, discharging (effect; _galan_ ) now. Whatever has been charged; is bound to discharge, is it not? You should not worry about that, You just keep 'seeing' all that. Whatever kind of cause it was, such will be the effect. If the charge was strong, it will discharge strong; if the charge was cold, it will discharge cold. But discharge is inevitable, is it not? That was the stock stored in the 'tank'. Do not make such a mistake (of not understanding this exactly), otherwise this Gnan is very elevated. Due to lack of exact understanding, it will be ruined.

Your _kriya_ (activity through mind, speech and body, here the intent during and behind the _kriya_ ) was 'done' in the past life and this is the fruit (effect) of that. 'You' just keep 'seeing' that. There is a problem only if you start business anew, no?

## Wedding music or the wails of death are same, as gneya

'We' (the Gnani Purush and the manifest absolute Self within) believed ourself to be this: 'We' are what 'We' are. 'We' did not listen to anyone in the _antahkaran_ (the mind, intellect, chit and ego). In the antahkaran the mind, the intellect, the chit and the ego would all 'speak' but 'we' never listened to them. That is why 'we' remained still. How well they all speak; some play band music sometimes and and some come weeping with grief! Hey you all, you were playing music just now and now you're lamenting? Who are you all? Only if I were to like the band music would the weeping and lamenting bother Me, no?

This part is mine and this belongs to another; _kshayak_ _samkit_ shows a line of demarcation between the Self ( _swa_ ) and the non-Self ( _para_ ). _Samyak darshan_ (right vision) does not show both lines of demarcation. _Samyak_ _darshan_ means, 'I am the Self, it is becoming hazily apparent to me now...' Here, a little bit of conviction ( _pratiti_ ) begins to gradually set in. And then it will leave. It sets in and then it leaves, it sets and leaves, whereas with _kshayak_ _samkit_ , the conviction is permanent. This conviction, 'I am the Self and this is separate from me' prevails. Now, the part that is separate from the Self has two types. Sometimes it will come playing band music and with all the decorations of joy, and at other times it will come lamenting in grief. One becomes elated when the band music comes and depressed with those of lament and grief come. Now You do not have to become elated or depressed, just keep 'seeing' whatever arises.

Hence, You have to 'see' even the 'band music' that is playing. If you taste the pleasure of the band music, then you will have to taste the pain of lamenting signals. You will not like it at that time. So if you do not want to taste the pain of the depression, then do not 'taste' the other one (pleasure of elevation) at all, You have to 'see' ( _jovanu_ ) whatever it is. It is not to be tasted. What is _kshayak_ _darshan_? What is of the Self is of the Self, and what is of the non-Self is of the non-Self. 'We – the Self' have nothing to do with that which belongs to another. All that is of the self are _gneyas_ (that to be known) and 'we', the Self have to simply 'Know' it; 'we' are not to taste any of it. Both are 'visible', 'seen' by the Self, the part with the musical instruments and also the part that laments. 'You' can see both, can't You? That is because the _pudgal_ (the non-Self) cannot be of just one kind. Always there will be contradictions, and all varieties of the _pudgal_ – physical complex of mind-speech. _Pudgal_ the non-Self, is always of all varieties and contradictions.

## Complete discharge through Knowing-Seeing

'You' will 'Know' ( _khabar padi, janyu_ ) that 'this is happening' and 'that is happening'. You will 'Know' at least that much, but you will not know with that other (without Gnan) ; there is lack of awakened awareness ( _beybhanpanu_ ) there.

**Questioner** : But the part 'I' am able to 'know', 'I' keep 'seeing' that it is happening to Chandubhai.

**Dadashri** : 'You' should keep 'seeing' that. 'You' should 'know' what is happening, that is all.

**Questioner** : But the effect that comes now, is it not an effect of the mistake (cause) from the past life?

**Dadashri** : That is the account you created, now they are the fruits of that karma. Karma of the past life are in the form of plans and then they materialize in this life. This life is the fruit of that.

**Questioner** : It is not necessary to do _pratikraman_ for that?

**Dadashri** : _Pratikraman_ is not needed in that. 'You' just have to 'see' and 'know'. _Pratikraman_ is necessary only if you have problems with another individual.

**Questioner** : 'I' should 'see' that I had made this mistake, and this the result of that.

**Dadashri** : You don't have a choice. Everything is a mistake of yours. Therefore You have to 'see' and 'know' them and they will continue to discharge completely without charging ( _nirjara_ ).

## 'Know' also the interference and its reactions

**Questioner** : Even when I follow Dada's Agnas, _dakhodakhal_ (interference and it's resulting effect) occurs in the worldly life, what is the reason for it?

**Dadashri** : That will happen, You should 'know' that. That which is to be 'known' is _gneya_. Whatever happens in the worldly life is _gneya_ (that what is to be known), and You are _Gnata_ \- the Knower. It is a _drashya_ (that which is to be seen) and You are the _Drashta_ (Seer). You have to remain in Your own nature (the Self).

**Questioner** : I know that I am _Shuddhatma_ , but what should I do if a file of mine, does not have this Gnan and interferes ( _dakhodakhal_ )?

**Dadashri** : You kave to keep 'seeing' the _dakhodakhal_. Keep 'seeing' whatever happens. It is all your account of karma. There is no interference of anyone else.

## Subtle difference between Seeing and Knowing

**Questioner:** I have to develop _Gnata-Drashta bhaav_ (knower-seer vision) in the worldly interactions ( _vyavahar_ ). If two people are fighting and one of them is wrong, then should I remain silent? Because if I say anything, he will not believe that it is the truth.

**Dadashri:** You need not remain silent. Just 'see' what happens. If You instruct Chandubhai to remain quiet then also it is spoilt and if You instruct him to say something, then also it is spoilt. 'Chandubhai', the self, will jump, You just watch. At that time just 'see' what 'Chandubhai' does.

**Questioner** : What if the wrong thing is going on and yet 'Chandubhai' feels that he does not want to speak?

**Dadashri:** No. The one who thinks that the wrong thing is going on will speak for sure. What is 'Chandubhai' doing? 'See' that. Do not guide Chandubhai by telling him 'do this' or 'do that'. Do not say anything like 'go south' or 'go north'. 'See' where he goes, north or south. If he ends up slapping one of the two who are fighting, 'see' that too. There is no problem even in the slapping, but do 'see' that.

**Questioner:** In all that, if someone slaps me, then that too is to be 'seen'?

**Dadashri:** 'See' that too. But it will only happen with repeated study ( _abhyaas_ ), no? Eventually You will have to come to such a study, no? If not today then at least in the next life You will have to arrive at this level of daily study, no? So why not start right now? Would it not have been helpful if You had began this study and are ready in it, now? More or less, study as much you can. 'You' have to keep 'seeing' what 'Chandubhai' does. 'We' (The Gnani and the fully enlightened Lord within) also keep 'seeing' what this 'Patel' does. What he eats? What he drinks? What he is fond of? All that 'we' keep 'seeing'. If he is fond of something then I do not want to stop him by scolding, whatever it is, let it be.

Once in a while this (Gnan adjustment) may get displaced, otherwise having come in the state of the Knower-Seer ( _Gnata Drashta_ ) state of the Self ( _swabhav_ ); this Knower-Seer will show (See) Chandubhai's fault and Chandubhai will show (see) the fault of the other person.

**Questioner:** It happens within that I want to remain the Knower-Seer and not do anything and externally it happens that I slap him.

**Dadashri:** 'See' what 'Chandubhai' does. Then You should say, 'Chandubhai, what are you doing such things for? Do _pratikraman_ for this.' Just 'say' this much.

**Questioner:** Will it reach? Will he listen if I 'say' it like that?

**Dadashri:** Everything reaches. He will acknowledge everything. Just give him only the warning. Was 'Chandubhai' illiterate at the time? He knew everything. But it happened under the control of the _prakruti_ (the formed complex of the relative-self discharging in this life).

**Questioner:** When such thing happens then every time the thought arises from within that what is happening is wrong and why do such things have to happen.

**Dadashri:** The right thing can happen and the wrong thing can also happen. You, the awakened One, are not to be concerned with that. That 'Chandubhai' will do on his own, You need to remain the 'seer' of what 'Chandubhai' does. Discharge means, the stock, which had been filled, is emptying, it is being discharged. Therefore the present knowledge (Gnan) is saying 'interference ( _dakho_ ) is not to be done'. The interference that happens is due to past knowledge, which may end up taking his (Chandubhai's) side. The friction continues between the two; the past knowledge and the present Knowledge. That will go on. But today's Gnan tells You not to interfere. That is the part of the Self; and the interference that happens, is being done by only 'Chandubhai'.

**Questioner:** So do 'I' have to shake it off in this way that 'I' do not have any give or take ( _levadeva_ ) with it all?

**Dadashri: '** You' have nothing to do with it and You have to remain as the Knower-Seer of that. If he creates too much problems for someone and if someone gets hurt then You should say, 'why are you doing these things without any purpose? Now how many days do you want to be bound?' 'You' should just say such things and be free. 'You' should not become irritated with him. If You got irritated with him, then what is the meaning in it? What are You looking for in _prakruti –_ what are you looking for from that which has been charged by pumping _chetan_ (life force) in it? And if it happens then what can be achieved by scolding him?

**Questioner:** So the feeling remains within that I do not want to interfere. The present Knowledge shows that...

**Dadashri:** Today's Gnan says not to interfere. Gnan means the Self, the Atma- the Self that has been attained. 'You' do not want to interfere; that is Gnan. The interference ( _dakho_ ) that happens is _prakruti_ , and that part is ignorance ( _agnan_ ). The Self only 'sees' ( _joovey chhe_ ) whatever interference arises, that's it. One has entered the Knower-Seer state, ( _gnata_ - _drashta_ _bhaav_ ). If the mistake that has happened is 'known' ( _jaaney_ ), then that is the Self. Interference is the fault ( _bhool_ ); 'You' see it, and therefore it leaves. The mistake will not leave without being 'Seen' and 'Known'. It has to be caught (by the Seer). _'Deetha nahi nijdosh to tariye kaun upaya? -_ If these mistakes of mine are not seen, then what other solution is there to overcome them?' 'You' can 'see' all the faults, can't You?

**Questioner:** I can 'see' them.

**Dadashri:** 'You' can 'see' all the faults, no? That verily is called Vignan. There is not any such Vignan that can show the mistakes of the self.

**Questioner:** Yes. It shows extremely subtle faults.

**Dadashri:** Extremely subtle, the smallest ones. It will also make you start doing _pratikraman_ (apology coupled with remorse) within.

## Each effect is Gneya only

**Questioner** : 'You' said to 'see' whatever happens. For example if someone pokes me with a needle, it is natural for me to feel like slapping him.

**Dadashri** : You should 'see' at that time. You should 'see' him (the other person) whether he slaps you, or not.

**Questioner** : But what about the regret I feel later?

**Dadashri** : That is fine too. 'You' should 'see' that too; whether you feel regret or you do not and if you think that you will slap him again, 'see' that too. But when he (Chandubhai) 'says', 'I will slap him again', then You tell him, 'Why did you do wrong, do _pratikraman_.' However, that is all an effect, You cannot change the effect. The effect has to be 'seen'. And as long as one has not attained Gnan, the ego is the doer and so things can be changed then.

**Questioner** : All these decisions like, 'I should not do this' 'I should do it this way'; are they all at the ego level?

**Dadashri** : 'Chandubhai' is doing all that. 'You' have to 'see' him do everything. 'You' are the 'Seer'. 'Chandubhai' is 't-o-p-s' (spinning toy), which You have to keep 'seeing'. The top will start to fall down as it spins and then it will arise. And those who do not have Self-Realization are _agnani_ and in their ignorant state, they too are 'tops'. But because they have the ego, they will not refrain from doing right or wrong. They keep doing right and wrong because there is doership there, is there not? 'Your' doership is gone, right? Your ego ( _ahamkar_ ) and my-ness ( _mamata_ ) are both gone.

## 'See' what is happening

**Questioner** : After attaining Gnan I feel bliss and feel like guiding others towards this path so that they too can gain the same. Should I do that or not?

**Dadashri** : 'You' have to 'see' what happens. It is not a question of whether to do it or not do it; You just have to 'see' what happens, because his unfolding karma and your unfolding karma are there. Everything will continue to come together. There is no doership in it, is there? 'You' have to continue to 'see' what is happening.

What is considered seeing-knowing? Is it to see and know this world? The answer is 'no'. Everyone is seeing it and knowing it. 'You' have to 'see' the same world that they are seeing and knowing. In addition, 'You' have to 'know' all the phases ( _paryaya_ ) of the mind that the self ( _potey_ ) cannot see; You can 'see' all those phases of the mind and the phases of the intellect ( _buddhi_ ). But the seeing and knowing is not just for other people, it is for You too. People's seeing and knowing is with _raag_ - _dwesh_ (attachment-abhorrence), whereas Yours is without _raag-dwesh_ ; that is all.

In a movie, if a person is killing someone, abhorrence should not arise within You for the one doing the killing. Before Gnan, difficulty used to arise. One may like it or one may not; both will be there, the attachment as well as the abhorrence. Some may like it and some may not, but You will not have 'likes' or 'dislike'. You should remain the Knower-Seer, wherever You go. So You have to See the pure ( _shuddha_ ) and Know the pure. And in the process of preserving this, the Self given to You by Dada does not go away. The Self is present in every one for You for sure. What will You 'see' if all these were not there? If you enter a movie theatre to see a movie, and it says 'The End', what will you see in that? You will be placed in a difficult situation. So, where is the seer, when there is nothing to see? The seer is absent. If there is something to see, then the seer will come. Therefore, if there is a 'film'(life) to be seen, then the Self will remain there. 'It' will leave if there is no film to 'see'. But You do not have such practice, You have to practice that. Then you may do whatever work you have to. 'See' everything, continue 'seeing' what 'Chandubhai' is doing. Keep Seeing Chandubhai, file number one.

# [2.3] Purify the non-Self complex

## Keep 'seeing' the internal garbage

_Pudgal_ (non-Self complex) means our house. I have the example in this way that, when you white wash and paint your house, it becomes clean. Similarly, Dada gave You the understanding that You are _Shuddhatma_. And therefore Your belief ( _shraddha_ ) changed. Therefore, it is definite that You have become pure ( _shuddha_ ), but what about all the clearing ( _chokhhu_ ) that needs to be done within?

Now You get rid of all this inner garbage. Can You See the inner garbage or not? One would say, 'Yes, the garbage is still there.' So if he removes that garbage, what else is there? He says, 'I am pure'. Everyday he says, 'I am _Shuddhatma_ ' at My feet but He has not become That (clear experience of the Self). Then He asks, 'What else is left for me?' I would say, 'There are cobwebs underneath the furniture'. He removes them. Then he says, 'Now I am pure'. 'No, there are these pots and pans, when they are cleaned, only then it can be considered clean, considered pure.' So they are done too. Then 'We' tell him, 'There is still some dirt stuck on them.' When all that is done, then one becomes _Shuddhatma_. Meaning, 'I am the Self' and this is _pudgal_ (non-Self) has become pure. So you (non-Self) are clear and 'I' (the Self) too am clear; then we both are free. So now I do not have to tell You about this anymore.

**Questioner** : That is true. I have to take care of the internal unclearnce (garbage) my self only.

**Dadashri** : 'You' have to continue to See how much of it has become really pure and how much of it still remains to be 'purified-cleared.'

**Questioner** : Now all the dirt will have to removed with detailed attention.

**Dadashri** : Were you not removing the dirt meticulously till now?

**Questioner** : No, I must not have been doing that.

**Dadashri** : 'I must not have' you say, you have not done it at all. Not a single word will go unchecked with Me. It is a different kind of scale. Do You have to remove the trash or do I have to?

**Questioner** : I will remove it with Your grace.

**Dadashri** : But You have to keep 'Seeing' everything in this way. After 'Seeing' everything meticulously, come and tell me 'now I have become pure ( _shuddha_ )'. If the external _rangrogan_ beautification gives You so much bliss, then what will happen when You purify everything internally?

**Questioner** : There will be even more bliss.

**Dadashri** : Complete bliss ( _anand_ ). A state of absolute bliss ( _param anand_ )! One can remain in _samadhi_ (uninturrupted bliss)!

So now 'See' everything meticulously! If You place Me (absolute Dada, _Gnayak_ ) to 'See', an entire Ramayan (epic) will happen. A whole book can be published. 'I' have explained all this to You all, very briefly; just in five minutes.

**Questioner** : Is it possible for me to still attain this meticulous vision or not?

**Dadashri** : Now that you have just spoken about it; the Vision ( _drashti_ ) will become meticulous for sure. But you have never said this 'do I have to do anything more?' before. You say, 'I am done with everything.' That is what you say.

You were saying that I have become clear ( _chokhho_ ), and now you says 'no, I have not become clear. Now I want to become clear'. What had You become before? On the outside You looked clear but the inside was full of garbage.

One has to become a God, not the servant ( _daas_ ) of God. At the moment you write ' _dasanudas_ (servant of servant)', but ultimately You will become God as You clear internally. There is infinite energy within.

## Keep seeing the mistakes of the self

**Questioner** : Dada, you really made us aware ( _jagrut_ ).

**Dadashri** : Yes, You have become aware, but write all this down, and read it everyday. The utensils still remain to be cleaned and some other things too.

**Questioner** : I will look at them very meticulously.

**Dadashri** : Yes, but You do not have to clean them. 'You' just have to give the order, 'Chandubhai, that one is left, go and do it.' Just cleaning the house from the outside will not do. So You have to tell him. 'You' have to order 'Chandubhai' that, 'What is this? Do you think that everything is fine just by cleaning and painting the house from the outside? Why don't you go ahead and sweep the inside? What are you doing Chandubhai?' Say that. This is how You make Chandubhai clean up. So as You tell him and as it becomes clear, You too will become clear. There is no mistake in the Vignan I tell you, is there?

**Questioner** : Not at all Dada.

**Dadashri** : The furniture will be cleaned up. Even the dirty stinky dishes get cleaned. 'You' will 'know' as You go on 'seeing' everything. But once the furniture is cleaned, one goes to sleep. He will say, 'I will rest now'. That will not work well. Therefore, 'we' (Dada) try to make him ( _mahatma_ ) understand, but he does not, does he?

The whole day 'You' have to have intensive attention in what Chandubhai is doing. 'You' have to keep telling Chandubhai, You have to keep 'seeing' what Chandubhai does, and if he does not do it, tell him, 'There are still utensils that remain to be washed, these few things still remain'. When he is finised doing one thing, immediately show him something else.

So You can see Chandubhai's mistakes, and You should tell Chandubhai, 'You are making these mistakes, now go and correct them.' So things will straighten out for him, otherwise it will not straighten.

## How long can Dada keep showing?

**Questioner** : Now, this matter of garbage, what garbage is it?

**Dadashri** : Garbage of everything. There is nothing but garbage there. Anything that does not let You keep Your _upayoga_ (focused applied awareness as the Self), is all garbage. So when You sweep away (by 'seeing' it) that garbage, then You will be able to maintain the _upayoga_. Do you understand what I am saying?

**Questioner** : That which does not allow Me to maintain _shuddha upayoga_ is all garbage.

**Dadashri** : Yes. So for how long can I keep showing You? Now it remains for You to 'See'. When the dishes smell, they smell because of the fungus on them. Can you eat from stinking plates? You will have to purify it upto that level. So purify it completely for once. How long can I keep telling you this? A hired hand will work for you right till the end, but am I a hired hand?

**Questioner** : No, Dada. We have made a note that we are to meticulously clean all the garbage from the 'house'.

**Dadashri** : Do You understand this subtle talk that your mind will not reach? Do You 'Know' what is going in this subtle talk? Is that not the job for the Gnani? So it is worth writing down. Then it will do all Your work! 'You' were told not to forget it. Once you have written it all down, then when you read it everyday, You will have the awareness about what else remains to be 'Seen' for clearing. You should check that out. 'You' will find it if You look for it. The God (Dada Bhagwan, the absolute Self) within told Me, 'Just tell everyone. For how long will You carry the responsibility?'

'I' will not come to show You. Only You will have to show it. 'I' will not have to tell You this again, will I? From now onwards, 'I' do not have to come to say this, You will have to tell Chandubhai, 'Chandubhai do this, do this.' This garbage will not allow You to remain regular (as the Self). There exists garbage in the house, so You tell 'him', 'Chandubhai, there is still garbage in it.' So Chandubhai will ask, 'What do I gain from 'You' becoming pure?' So then tell him, 'if 'I' become pure, then you will be settled for sure, that is a gurantee.'

**Questioner** : It is only Chandubhai that I have to purify, right?

**Dadashri** : Yes. 'You' are pure _Shuddha_ , You are verily _Shuddhatma_. Chandubhai will say 'I too have become pure now' so then 'You' say, 'No, everything has been purified on the outside but there still remains garbage within. Sweep that away and then you will become pure. The dishes have been washed, you have cleaned them haphazardly, and so I can still see some dirt ( _kashaya_ ) on them'. He will say, 'That is because they are still wet.' 'Scrub them some more, scrub them more.' We have given you the freedom. Eat from them; eat anything you want to.

Do you understand what I am saying? So You now have to do the sweeping. When one thing is over, show him something else. And however much separately You 'see', for example, 'he tasted _garvaras_ (the sweet juice of doership), then the _pudgal_ (non-Self complex) becomes separate. Otherwise You cannot become free. Therefore, to 'See' means that 'You' are separate and the _pudgal_ becomes separate.

## The one who soils it has to clean it

The Gnani Purush has broken your belief of, 'I am Chandubhai'. He has destroyed all those beliefs of yours. 'I am Chandubhai', 'I am his brother', 'I am his uncle', 'I am her husband' etc., how many wrong beliefs has the Gnani destroyed from all the sides? 'You' have now come as far as, 'I am _Shuddhatma_ '. Now You have to cleanse internally. Who was the one that spoiled it? The answer is, 'I had done it in the past.' And then if that dirt is allowed to sit there for many years, then the plates will pick up rust, will they not? Now it needs to be cleansed internally. You can eat-drink-sleep, sit in _satsang_ etc., but Your chit (attention) should constantly be in clearing up the internal. The clearing process that has commenced is called _upayoga_ (applied awareness of the Self). Have You started to clean all the rooms?

**Questioner** : Yes, I have started to clean. There are a lot of cobwebs. I can now see where the cobwebs are. They are all in the corners, I can see them now.

**Dadashri** : That 'Seer' is You, and he-Chandubhai, the owner of the house, is the cleaner. After he cleans everything, he asks, 'Can I rest now?' and the answer is, 'No, there is still more cleaning to be done. You can rest after you have finished everything.'

**Questioner** : Ok, fine.

## Garbage makes You stray from upayoga

**Questioner** : Does garbage mean the mind-speech-body-chit-intellect-ego?

**Dadashri** : All this ego-mind-speech-body is one and the same thing. Yes, they are made up of the same thing. But in that; a little bit of the energy of the Self has become mixed in it; only the 'power'. Just as a battery is made of only one thing, into which external power has entered and therefore it gives light. There is nothing left once the power is lost. It is the same old thing.

Therefore, all the _kashayas_ (anger, pride, deceit, greed) that were filled in the past life, continue arising. 'You' have to keep 'seeing' them and tell 'Chandubhai', 'Do _pratikraman_ , read _Charan Vidhi_ again'. That is all, nothing else. 'You' have to settle them by 'Seeing' them. That is called cleansing. When You go home, they will tell you, 'Sir, everything is done. Now please sign on this document'. And You say, 'No, there is still some more left to be done.' He (Chandubhai) will keep doing it and 'You' keep showing him.

Nothing remains if You remain in _upayoga_ (applied awareness of the Self). Then, no garbage remains to be cleaned. That is considered having cleaned. _Upayoga_ can be maintained if it has become clean but otherwise it will be a little weak. _Upayoga_ will vaccilate; it will remain for a while, and go away a while.

**Questioner** : You also said that if he tastes _garvaras_ (the sweet taste of doership), but if I 'see' it, does that mean that it has separated from Me?

**Dadashri** : 'You' should 'know' that the one 'tasting' _garvaras_ is not 'I'. The one tasting is 'not I' and when you say, 'I tasted it'; you become that. One tastes _garvaras_ but he also feels in the mind that 'I am this'. Now, what does 'our' Gnan say? It says, 'That is not I', that is all. Understand that and remain separate there and settle it with equanimity. Say, 'I am not this', and then settle with equanimity ( _sama bhavey nikal_ ).

**Questioner** : Anything that does not let Me remain in the main _upayoga_ is all garbage.

**Dadashri** : Yes. That garbage will not let You remain in _upayoga_. That which lets You remain in awareness is the absence of garbage. You, the Self, do not even have to clean anything; 'You' just have to continue 'Seeing'. Or, when it comes, if You say 'this is not my natural state _swaroop_ ', You will become free from it. No matter what comes,pain, pleasure, anger, or anything else, 'this is not my natural state', such should be the prevailing awareness.

**Questioner** : Therefore, those intents that tend to smear ( _leypaimaan_ _bhaavo_ ), are they the dust and garbage?

**Dadashri** : What else? Those that smear and anoint are _lepaimaan bhaavo_. And what which keeps You unsmeared ( _nirleyp_ ) is this _upayoga_ (applied awareness as the Self). This will remain for two to three minutes; such _upayoga_ will not remain forever, will it?

' **Seeing' faults of the self is upayoga**

**Questioner** : Does garbage leave with _upayoga_? Can that be called _upayoga_ as well?

**Dadashri** : _Upayoga_ is called that where all the garbage continues to come out. When you left your place to come here, that was garbage of twenty five hundred miles. And when you came five hundred miles, we can say, 'Garbage of five hundred miles has been removed.' That is the _upayoga_ of five hundred miles. In this manner, when the garbage of tweny five hundred miles is removed, You are free. This is simple and straightforward talk, is it not? Once the garbage is removed, You will not have to remove it again, You simply have to remain in _upayoga_.

# [3] Shuddha Upayoga : Pure Applied Awareness

## Understanding pure applied awareness

**Questioner** : For a long time, I did not understand the word _upayoga_.

**Dadashri** : What does _upayoga_ mean? A thief's _upayoga_ is in stealing the whole day. A thief who picks pockets, his attention _upayoga_ is not in how much money he makes or how much he loses; it is only in picking pockets. Therefore, wherever the attention of the self (worldly self; _vyavahar_ _atma_ ) is used, that is _upayoga_. Therefore, when You say, 'I am _Shuddhatma_ ', that is _shuddha_ _upayoga_ – pure applied awareness.

_Upayoga_ is considered awareness ( _jagruti_ ). If one has gone to a fair of Lord Ganapati, where will his attention _upayoga_ be? One would reply, 'No, not in money, not in sexuality.' Where must his attention _upayoga_ be? He has faith in the worldly religious meditation ( _dharmadhyan_ ). That is a faith too. So he is in _shubha_ (good) _upayoga_. Now the faith in which there is no worldly life-increasing ( _sansar_ ) element is true faith, but it is not _samyak_. _Samyak_ faith is when it is eternal. If one were to understand _upayoga_ , then his work is done.

What is _atma's_ ,the self's, relation to _vyavahar_ (worldly interaction)? It is _upayoga_. There are four kinds of _upayogas_. _Ashuddha_ _upayoga_ (impure), _ashubha_ (inauspicious, bad) and _shubha_ (auspicious, good); these three are forced upon one by the _prakruti_. They are forced upon one, but he believes, 'I did it' and so he binds himself, through the ego of this doership. And the fourth kind of _upayoga_ is _shuddha_ _upayoga_ (pure awareness as the Self), which is independent.

'You' are now considered as being a _shuddha_ - _upayogi_ (one having pure _upayoga_ ). Until now, you were _shubha-ashubha_ _upayogi_ (one having auspicious as well as inauspicious _upayoga_ ). To do the good and beneficial is _shubha_ _upayoga_ and to do the bad and hurtful is _ashuddha_ _upayoga_. Taking a vow, doing penance, chants _japa_ etc., studying scriptures, that is all considered _shubhha_ (auspicious) _upayoga_. And the rest is _ashubha_ (inauspicious) _upayoga_.

**Questioner** : Please explain _shuddha_ (pure) _upayoga_ and _shubha_ (auspicious) _upayoga_.

**Dadashri** : As long as there is the belief 'I am Chandubhai', both _shubha_ _upayoga_ and _ashubha_ _upayoga_ is there, because wherever there is _shubha_ ; _ashubha_ is always there too. And where there is 'I am _Shuddhatma_ ', there is _shuddha_ _upayoga_ there. What is _shuddha_ _upayoga_? It is where there is absence of thoughts related to sexuality and _kashaya_ (anger-pride-deceit-greed); it is _upayoga_ where there is no effect at all from anger-pride-deceit-greed and sexuality.

You are not to abandon your worldly obligations. If your work leaves you, then let it go. And if it does not leave, then let it be. If twice the amount of work comes to you, then do that much work. But you have to get rid of any _raag-dwesh_ (attachment-abhorrence). Anything that has an iota of _raag-dwesh,_ that stock is not Your stock. After the Gnan 'we' give You; You will not have any _raag-dwesh_ , provided You do not interfere. The Gnan itself works like that. Still, during any worldly activity, You will lose _upayoga_ , you have to apply the _upayoga_ in the worldly life, do you not? Sometimes, work cannot be attained without _upayoga_ and there are some activities that can be carried out without _upayoga_. In some tasks you have to apply _upayoga_. Now what does _upayoga_ mean? If you ask, 'What are you dwelling in right now?' he will tell you 'I had a thought about a court case, and so right now I am thinking about that.' That is _upayoga_. At that time he is not here. This is Akram Vignan, that is why You are here, and you are there. But one does not know how to preserve that. Otherwise, if You sit and 'See' what Chandubhai is doing, that is presence of _upayoga_. But there is not such high energy in all. So whatever _upayoga_ goes away, 'we' would know that it has gone somewhere else. Would You not know which places it has gone to?

**Questioner** : Yes, Dada.

**Dadashri** : _Upayoga_ , itself means 'that in which you are dwelling'. When you are not in _shuddha_ _upayoga_ (pure applied awareness), then you are in the _sada_ (good) _upayoga_. You have to 'see' where in all the places the _upayoga_ is being occupied. _Sada_ _upayoga_ means to be occupied in worldly things. The family will say 'we have to have this...we have to have this, this and this jewelry is to be made...you have to buy such and such jewelry...' In order to settle the files with equanimity, you will have to pay attention to that, will you not? But do not become engrossed in it, because if you do, then you will lose _upyoga_.

**Questioner** : So _shuddha_ and _shubha_ can exist simultaneously, can they not? The Self is in _shuddha_ (pure) and the mind-speech-body is in the _shubha_ (good), is it not?

**Dadashri** : It can be in _shubha_ and sometimes it can be in _ashubha_ too. When the mind-speech-body is giving a charitable donation, the Self is the 'seer' of that. There is no problem with that. The Self is pure ( _shuddha_ ) for sure. Giving donation is an effect (of past causes). Stealing or giving donation; they are both an effect. And this _shuddha_ _upayoga_ is _upayoga_ – applied awareness.

The scriptures cannot give such a detailed explanation of the word _upayoga_. You understand the meaning when we give you the explanation. 'You' will be able to maintain _upayoga_ , if You understand this.

## Whose attribute is upayoga?

The Self remains in the Self only. That nature does not change. _Agnan_ (ignorance of the Self) has given rise to the worldly life and _moksha_ is through _pragnya_ (liberating energy of the Self). _Agnan_ meaning through the intellect ( _buddhi_ ). Through _pragnya_ means through Gnan. Therefore, _agnan_ will not let one come out of the worldly life ( _sansaar_ ). _Pragnya_ will not let You remain in _sansaar_ , because it will take You to _moksha_ , it will keep cautioning You.

**Questioner** : Whose attribute is _upayoga_?

**Dadashri** : _Shuddha_ (pure) _upayoga_ is of _pragnya_. And _shubha ashubha_ (auspicious-inauspicious) _upayoga_ is of the ego, and it is dependent on the non-Self, not on the Self. And that of _pragnya_ is dependent on the Self. The _upayoga_ through _pragnya_ is _purushartha_ (progressing as the Self, following Agnas), and the _upayoga_ through intellect is dependent on karma.

**Questioner** : Dada, can _upayoga_ be considered an attribute ( _lakshan_ ) of the Self?

**Dadashri** : No. This _upayoga_ – what is its _yoga_ (union) with? Is it united with the Self's nature ( _swabhavik_ ) or of the nature of the non-Self ( _vishesh bhav_ or _vibhav_ )? Even the _yoga_ with _vishesh_ _bhaav_ (the non-Self) is called _upayoga_. _Upayoga_ means with awareness ( _jagruti purvak_ ).

**Questioner** : With reference to awareness ( _jagruti_ ), what do we call _upayoga_?

**Dadashri** : Using awareness towards the worldly life is considered misuse ( _ashubha_ or _door upayoga_ ) and if used on the other side, towards the self ( _atma_ ), towards religion; it is considered proper use; it is considered auspicious ( _sada_ or _shubha upayoga_ ) use of awareness. And after coming into the awareness of the Self, it is considered _shuddha_ _upayoga_ , pure applied awareness.

**Questioner** : _Upayoga_ is mainly of the Self, is it not?

**Dadashri** : No, there is no _upayoga_ of the Self. If the Self had _upayoga_ , then it becomes a treasurer, it becomes a serviceman. People teach you that, but the Self is not like that. In all the current talk that is out there, there is not a single place where the Self is. 'You' have to accept this as a fact. Each person speaks according to his own standard, thus it is 'standardized' (limited by intellect and view point). The Self does not have _upayoga_ or anything else.

**Questioner** : Then whose _upayoga_ is this, I still do not understand?

**Dadashri** : All the _upayoga_ is all of the _ahamkari_ , of the one with the ego. After attaining the Self, after attaining the vision as the Self ( _Atmadrashti_ ), if the _upayoga_ goes towards the Self, it is called _swa_ - _upayoga_ , and if it goes the other way, then it is called _para upayoga_ (towards the non-Self), that is all. _Upayoga_ means to 'See' where the awareness ( _jagruti_ ) became applied. The Self is not _upayoga_.

## Difference between upayoga and jagruti

**Questioner** : What is the difference between the _upayoga_ of the Self and the awareness _jagruti_ of the Self?

**Dadashri** : The difference is that if the light is turned on, will that light not be wasted if you do not get any work done and keep sleeping instead? The illumination of light is awareness, but if you read, then you have made the _upayoga_ (use) of that illumination.

**Questioner** : So using or focusing that awareness in one place, is that called _upayoga_?

**Dadashri** : Awareness ( _jagruti_ ) is there indeed when 'We' give You the Gnan. Make use of it. Awareness will pass just like that; it is useful if You make use ( _upayoga kariye_ ) of it. Another example: There is 'electricity' in it, that is called the awareness, but you will only get the electricity if you press the button, right? Pressing the button is _upayoga_ , otherwise you will have to fan yourself by hand like this on a hot day. Hey, why don't you press the button and make use of it?

## Exact _shuddha_ upayoga

_Shuddha_ _upayoga_ means to 'Know' ( _jaanyo_ ) the Self as pure and to 'see' the pure _shuddha_. See 'Your' self as pure, through the conviction ( _pratiti_ ), awareness ( _laksha_ ) and experience ( _anubhav_ ) of 'I am _Shuddha_ (pure)', and see the Same in others. That is called _shuddha_ _upayoga_ – pure applied awareness.

Now, if someone comes and puts a huge garland of flowers around your neck, at that time the _bhav_ (feeling, vision) arises that he is a nice man. And then some other man comes and removes that garland, destroys it and throws it away, and if _abhav_ hatred towards him arises, it is not called _shuddha_ _upayoga_. One man gives you garland and the other destroys it, one man praises ( _maan_ ) and the other curses ( _upmaan_ ) you, but there is no change there. As long as the changes happen, _shuddha_ _upayoga_ is not there as it should be.

**Questioner** : The change does happen; it does produce an effect ( _asar_ ).

**Dadashri** : When such changes happen, then 'Know' that there is still that much garbage remaining. _Shuddha_ _upayoga_ (applied awareness as the Self) means the Self is not forgotten for a second even. Therefore, during the time when there is absence of _raag-dwesh_ , it is _shuddha_ _upayoga_.

**Questioner** : If 'I' 'see' the _Shuddhatma_ (the pure Self) in everyone here in _satsang_ , is that considered as _shuddha_ _upayoga_?

**Dadashri** : Yes, 'You' 'see' _Shuddhatma_ in everyone, but when someone comes and slaps you and You do not 'see' _Shuddhatma_ in him, then 'Know' that it is not _shuddha_ _upayoga_. When the police are taking you to jail and You 'see' _shuddha_ (pure) in that policemen, then that is it! When You 'see' the pure Self in the wife, when she is cursing you, then it is _shuddha_ _upayoga_. Such is the Self You have been given. You just have to 'know' what kind of Self You have been given. I have given to you the _nivvada Shuddha Atma_. It will never revert back ( _nivvada_ ) to the way it was. So Your readiness will be needed.

'You' have become _Shuddhatma_ and so You have to believe, 'I truly am _Shuddha_ (pure)'. At times, unfolding of past karma in Chandubhai may be such that it will incite a reaction of repulsion filled hatred in people. Even then, 'You' still have Your purity, no change should happen there. 'I' have given You the pure Self state ( _Shuddha swaroop_ ). Thereafter, due to the unfolding of karma, whatever stock was filled will keep coming out. When some very bad work is done through the self, if it arises within that, 'I am spoiled, I am impure,' then is not considered as _shuddha_ _upayoga_ (applied awareness). Whatever work gets done through the self, no matter how bad, that is no longer Your work; 'You' have become separate and the one doing the work has become separate. 'You' have not become impure ( _ashuddha_ ). That which is impure, has become impure; such awareness should remain alongside.

From here on if you complain about someone cursing you, I will know that You have not remained in _shuddha_ _upayoga_. 'See' that person only as _shuddha_ (pure). He too, is pure, and the _dakhal_ interference is the 'wrestling' of the _pudgal_ (non-Self complex). Who is wrestling? It is this _pudgal_ , and one takes it upon himself, saying 'I am doing it, he is doing it.' And then he says, 'this man insulted me.' So then I tell him that His _shuddha_ _upayoga_ got wasted. It is considered _shuddha_ _upayoga_ when You 'see' only the pure in everyone.

If You are in the _shuddha_ _upayoga_ that Lord Mahavir remained in for twenty-four hours; for even five minutes, ten minutes, or fifteen minutes, then that is very good. What did Lord Mahavir do? He saw the pure ( the Self) in the one who threw rocks at him, in the one who slapped him, in the one who hurled mud on him, and in the one who hit him. This _Vitarag_ Vignan, Vignan of the twenty-four Tirthankaras, is the Knowledge (Gnan) of _shuddha_ _upayoga_. It can give you _moksha_ (liberation) here, while living the worldly life.

## Difference between Shuddha upayoga and Gnata Drashta

**Questioner** : What is the difference between these three; _shuddha_ _upayoga_ , Seeing-Knowing ( _jovoo-jaanvoo_ ), and Knower-Seer ( _Gnata Drashta_ )?

**Dadashri** : All three are the same. But _shuddha_ _upayoga_ is wide and long. _Shuddha_ _upayoga_ means that if you ask, 'why did you curse me?' then that is not Your _shuddha_ _upayoga_. But if it is in Your awareness ( _laksha_ ) or Your attention ( _dhyan_ ) that 'Naginbhai cursed Chandubhai'; if that remains within You; then that is called _shuddha_ _upayoga_. But if you say, 'Naginbhai cursed me', then that is not considered as _shuddha_ _upayoga_. When You do not see anyone at fault ( _doshit,_ as the doer), then that is _shuddha_ _upayoga_. No one is at fault at all. The world verily is flawless ( _nirdosh_ \- faultless).

**Questioner** : Now when this happens, what does 'Seeing- Knowing' mean?

**Dadashri** : Not 'doing' _raag-dwesh_ attachment-abhorrence is 'Knowing-Seeing'.

**Questioner** : So, is Knowing-Seeing one step beyond, higher than _upayoga_?

**Dadashri** : The best is _shuddha_ _upayoga_. _Shuddha upayoga_ is the ultimate station, and its fruit-result is 'Knowing-Seeing'. Knowing-Seeing the pure ( _shuddha_ ); that verily is _shuddha_ _upayoga_. There are many other ways it is called _shuddha_ _upayoga_. The other person is verily _shuddha_ , that must be the Vision for You. Does it seem like that for You?

**Questioner** : I see him at fault, but then _pratikraman_ happen for that.

**Dadashri** : That is fine, that will work too.

## Who has Shuddha upayoga?

**Questioner** : As long as Chandubhai is alive, his attention _upayoga_ is in the worldly interaction ( _vyavahar_ ). So then, how is it possible when you tell us to remain in _shuddha_ _upayoga_?

**Dadashri** : That is going to happen through _pragnya_ _shakti_ (liberating energy of the Self), is it not? The Self is pure and the One in the other is also pure! _Pragnya_ and _agnya_ (ignorance of the Self), there is a difference, is there not? _Agnya_ (energy of ignorance, mediated through intellect) works there (worldly interaction) and _pragnya_ works here, that is the only difference.

**Questioner** : Is this Chandubhai in the worldly life interaction ( _vyavahar_ )?

**Dadashri** : _Agnya_ keeps doing all that work. _Agnya_ and _pragnya_. _Agnya_ means intellect ( _buddhi_ ) and _pragnya_ means Gnan. _Pragnya_ 'knows' 'I am _shuddha_ ', and even when the other person is cursing someone, it 'knows' his Self as the pure Self. 'You' are to 'know' the pure ( _shuddha_ ). Not changing from that Vision is called _shuddha_ _upayoga_. See the _shuddha_ (pure). See the Self as pure in even the cows and bufallos; that is the _Shuddhatma_. Whether one is cursing or picking pockets, he is still a _Shuddhatma_ ; look at His purity ( _shuddhata_ ) .

**Questioner** : Is that Chandubhai's _shuddha_ _upaypoga_?

**Dadashri** : _Shuddha_ _upayoga_ can never be of Chandubhai, _shuddha_ _upayoga_ is of _pragnya_. Chandubhai's _upayoga_ may be _ashuddha_ (impure) _upayoga_ ; it may be _shubha ashubha_ (auspicious-inauspicious) _upayoga_. Chandubhai seeing good and seeing bad, are both discharging ( _nikali bhaav_ ) part, not a charge. _Nikali_ , means that it is going to become rootless, will never grow again. If You 'know' what Chandubhai is doing, that is enough, that is Your _shuddha_ _upayoga_. If Chandubhai looks this way, You know that 'wow, Chandubhai is looking at it this way', and that is Your _shuddha_ _upayoga_!

## Vyavahar and upayoga are together

**Questioner:** Is it possible to remain in _shuddha_ _upayoga_ (pure applied awareness as the Self), at the time of doing daily worldly interaction ( _vyavahar_ )?

**Dadashri:** The one who is asking the question, 'can I remain in _shuddha_ _upayoga_ during worldly interaction?' either does not know what _shuddha_ _upayoga_ is or what _vyavahar_ (worldly interaction) is.

**Questioner:** Please explain this further.

**Dadashri:** In every _vyavahar_ (worldly interaction), action and knower ( _kriya_ and _gnata_ ) go along together. The _vyavahar_ of both is together only.

**Questioner:** Are they definitely together in _vyavahar_?

**Dadashri:** They definitely are together, everything is together, but one does not have awareness of this.

**Questioner:** So Dada, the one who conducts the _vyavahar_ , the one who does the work and the _Gnata,_ the Knower who 'sees' this, both are indeed separate but are together.

**Dadashri:** _Vyavahar_ is called action ( _kriya_ ) and this _upayoga_ (applied awareness as the Self) is called Gnan. On one side You 'see' and action happens on the other side. Both go on together only. They never go on independently i.e. separate from each other. Every time, the Self is present for sure. The Self cannot be absent. Action may be absent.

**Questioner:** To keep awareness ( _jagruti_ ) at the time of every action is the main thing, isn't it?

**Dadashri:** Awareness does not have to be kept; it is there for sure. It is just that one interferes in a wrong manner, and therefore it becomes wrong. The Self is always there, where else can the Self go? Then who does the work at the time of doing that work? The ego does the action; _Gnata_ (the Knower), the Self 'sees' that. The Self 'sees' where the work was done properly and where it was done improperly. How did such error happen? The Self 'sees' all this. Later one becomes assured of this.

Say, there is a blind man. He is very strong; as strong as a horse. There is another man who has lost both his legs. If the man without legs, sits on the shoulders of the blind man, will that serve the purpose of both the men, or not? The blind man will say, 'why don't you sit on my shoulders and then you can guide me?' Will the blind complain at all? He will complain only when he comes across an obstacle and that is when the one without legs will guide him. The 'seeing' Self (non-doer) continues to see like the leg- less man and the blind man keeps walking (doer), that is how the worldly interaction goes on. The Self, does not go away at that time.

Where the _vyavahar_ (worldly interaction) is believed to be the _atma_ (self, 'this is my world'), and where 'I (self) verily am the knower'; there they both run as one. There is no separation of the Knower from the doer. 'I am the seer and I am the doer' is how it is. That was the state before the Gnan Vidhi, was it not? 'I heard, I saw' and what is more, one believes himself to be the 'knower-seer'.

His knowing does not go away; similarly his seeing does not go away. But it should happen through experience.

**Questioner** : What do You mean by 'through experience'?

**Dadashri** :If it has been seen once, then you will be able to see it again. Gnan means experience. It is seen for sure in all the experiences that have happened. _Darshan_ (Vision) means _pratiti_ (conviction). Gnan means _anubhav_ (experience).

**Questioner** : While dealing with these files with equanimity, _upayoga_ (applied awareness) has to be applied, what kind of state is there at that time?

**Dadashri** : At that time, it is _shuddha upayoga_ (pure applied awareness). 'You' should settle that file with equanimity and then let it leave. To purify through Gnan – that is _shuddha_ _upayoga_.

People have _ajagruti_ (lack of awareness), so the files do not get settled with equanimity, and suppose you are in a great rush and overwhelmed with files, then so much of it does not get settled. If you are facing a rush of too many files, and there are many files to be taken care of, then some files will be settled and some will leave without settlement. Does that happen or not?

**Questioner** : Yes, that does happen.

**Dadashri** : Similarly, for these people they will leave without being settled even in the absence of rush of files. That is how it is. Worldly interaction with files without _upayoga_ (applied awareness of the Self) will keep coming back for Your signature (for 'seeing'). 'You' will become free of that _vyavahar_ (worldly interaction) if You maintain the applied awareness ( _upayoga_ ). Sooner or later, You will have to let go that _vyavahar_ by 'seeing' it. That is why 'we' say that, whatever you let go without 'seeing', those files will come back.

If One remains in 'our' five Agnas, He is considered to be in the pure applied awareness ( _shuddha_ _upayoga_ ). When a file comes, settle it with equanimity. If You do not apply awareness to it, then it is not considered as settled with equanimity. And if You pay attention (apply awareness), then it is _shuddha_ _upayoga_ (pure applied awareness). 'Our' five Agnas are verily _shuddha_ _upayoga_.

If 'what will happen?' arises within, everything will be spoiled. Nothing will happen; there is nothing there to happen. If Your _upayoga_ (applied awareness) is pure, then notbody in the world is there to bother You, and when the _shuddha_ _upayoga_ is spoiled, then everything will cause you problems.

**Questioner** : Is it not said that if one can maintain _shuddha_ _upayoga_ for just forty-eight minutes, then he will attain complete _keval Gnan_ (absolute Knowledge)?

**Dadashri** : No, it will not happen. _Shuddha_ _upayoga_ itself is considered _keval Gnan_ but it is fractional _keval Gnan_ , not complete, because one cannot digest it, in this current time era. This is Akram Vignan, is it not?

That is why I say that if You 'see' _Shuddhatma_ in everyone you come across without interruption for forty-eight minutes; it is considered as _shuddha_ _upayoga_. On the one hand you see a donkey and on the other,You 'see' the _Shuddhatma_ , that is _shuddha_ _upayoga_. When You 'see' other _jivas_ (living beings) as _Shuddhatma_ , it is Your _shuddha_ _upayoga_ at that time.

One whose intent ( _bhav_ ) is to 'see' 'as it is', whose intent is to 'see' with the Vision given by the Gnani Purush; is bound to attain _shuddha_ _upayoga_ for sure!

Now 'You' have to come to the main talk. You do not need books of the standard that you already passed- know, now, do You? Now, all that remains for you is to 'See' the exact aspects of the Self, and how to Be the Self.

## The Shuddha upayogi Sees no one as the doer in this world

**Questioner** : We should not see cursing, as cursing, is that what You are saying?

**Dadashri** : When someone is cursing, he is not the doer. It is inauspicious applied awareness ( _ashubha_ _upayoga_ ) to see him as the doer. 'You' are not a doer, neither is anyone else in this world. So, if You 'see' others as non-doer; that is _shuddha_ _upayoga_. Such is 'Our' _upayoga_ every minute to minute. It is immediate, on the moment. Otherwise, it will become _ashubha_ _upayoga_. It will get spoilt immediately. Will it not? _Shuddha_ _upayoga_ means 'I am _shuddha_ (pure), I not the doer of anything; I am _akriya_ (never in any action)'.

Now, what does he tell others? 'Why did you break my cups?' So the purity did not remain there. He believes himself to be pure and he conducts as pure too, but when he tells the other person that he broke his cups, he believes that person to be the doer, and that is a weakness.

**Questioner** : So, he is not in _upayoga_ , at that time.

**Dadashri** : No, there is _upayoga_ , but it got spoilt. He is not in the _shuddha_ _upayoga_ (pure applied awareness); it became _ashubha_ (inauspicious) _upayoga_. Do not believe anyone to be the doer, only then _shuddha_ _upayoga_ will be maintained. You are _akriya_ (non-doer) and so is the other person. No one is a doer in this world, because everyone is a _Shuddhatma_. When one experiences thus, then _shuddha_ _upayoga_ will prevail everywhere.

Where there is absence of, 'I am doing', 'He is doing', and 'they are doing', there exists complete _shuddha_ _upayoga_. When some one raises a red flag and, 'Why are you raising a red flag?' arises, then You fall short there. That is because He is not raising it. No one should be seen as a doer. That is called _shuddha_ _upayoga_.

That is why Lord Mahavir had said that, 'I am doing it', 'He is doing it', 'They are doing it' is not in My Vignan. It is not in My Vignan of _moksha_ to see anyone as a doer of anything. It is in other Vignan.'

When you go to the office and you do not have _shuddha_ _upayoga_ , then you will see all your staff as staff. And if Your _shuddha_ _upayoga_ is there, You will 'see' them as the staff and also as _Shuddhatma_. 'You' should maintain such _shuddha_ _upayoga_ everywhere. 'You' should not miss out on that. _Shuddha_ _upayoga_ is itself absolute equanimity ( _samata_ ), and that is everything. Then no matter how the unfolding of the karma dances, there is no problem. The unfolding of karma ( _udayakarma_ ) is unfolding of karma; it is based on the scientific circumstantial evidences ( _vyavasthit_ ), not on you. 'You' are only the 'knower' that, the unfolding is of this kind.

## To the One with Shuddha upyog, the world is flawless

There is no interference ( _dakho_ ) of any kind if there is _shuddha_ _upayoga_. There is not even a little bit of interference. It encompasses everything. 'Our' other sentences are for enhancing _shuddha_ _upayoga_. Each and every sentence 'we' have given, is different. There will be no confusion if one understands them. And that is why 'we' have said the world is flawless ( _nirdosh_ ), so what are you going to see the fault in? It is only when you unnecessarily see faults in others. When do you see faults in others? When a fault arises within you, then you immediately start seeing faults in others. That is the rule otherwise You will not 'see' faults in anyone. So it spoils this _upayoga._ However, _para upayoga_ (vision as Chandulal) does not happen. If it did, then he will have a sour face. _Kashayas_ (anger, pride, attachment and greed) will arise.

**Questioner** : The world is flawless ( _nirdosh_ ). That is _shuddha_ _upayoga_ , but it is external _upayoga_ , is it not?

**Dadashri** : No, it is not external.

**Questioner** : Because it is for the external vision, is it not?

**Dadashri** : It is not a question of whether it is external or internal. To remain pure ( _shuddha_ ) and to see others as pure too is _shuddha_ _upayoga_. To see others as _nirdosh_ (non-doer) is _shuddha_ _upayoga_.

**Questioner** : So then to 'see' even the self as pure when one is alone; is that _shuddha_ _upayoga_?

**Dadashri** : The one who sees the _shuddha_ only believes that. But You should 'see' all the subtle that is within, as _gneya_ (that which is to be known).

**Questioner** : I have to 'see' whatever it is. True _upayoga_ is that, is it not?

**Dadashri** : It is all the same, but ultimately You will have to come to this, because the external will not remain forever. It is there, for Your initial decision (the other person is pure) only. Keep the _upayoga_ on the outside but keep it as _shuddha_ _upayoga_. There are no rooms within that You have to keep it all inside; this Vision has to be 'used'.Lord Mahavir too employed external _upayoga_ , but it was _shuddha_ _upayoga_. The world's _upayoga_ is impure ( _ashuddha_ ), inauspicious ( _ashubha_ ), auspicious ( _shubha_ ). The _mahatmas'_ _upayoga_ would be pure ( _shuddha_ _upayoga_ ). Their conduct is just like other people in the world, but the _upayoga_ is different. _Upayoga_ (applied awareness) has to be purified, that is all. _Shuddha_ _upayoga_ means that when You look externally, You 'see' _Shuddhatma_ , 'I am pure ( _shuddha_ ), and others as pure too', then that is _shuddha_ _upayoga_ (pure applied awareness), and if You remain in 'our' Agna, then that is complete _shuddha_ _upayoga_.

**Questioner** : What is the result if _shuddha_ _upayoga_ does not remain ?

**Dadashri** : Whatever benefit You would have derived is lost by not having _shuddha_ _upayoga_.

**Questioner** : But Dada, both things are happening concurrently, the fault of the other person is also seen. Even the Gnan tells Me, that it is not his fault at all.

**Dadashri** : A fault is seen through the external vision (vision of the self) and through the inner Vision (Vision of the Self) he is seen as _nirdosh_ (flawless). 'Seeing' Him _nirdosh_ is Your _samyak_ (right) Vision. Now if one's inner vision does not show that, it means that his awareness has become weak. There is no _shuddha_ _upayoga_ in that vision. Go and ask an _agnani_ (one who does not haveve Self-realization) whether he has the awareness of separation between the external and the internal together? Ask the same to the ascetics and spiritual masters ( _sadhu_ - _acharyas_ ). They will tell you 'no, just one at a time'. This is so because their vision will keep showing them others at fault ( _doshit_ ), and to You, they are 'seen' as _nirdosh_. From verily that point onwards, the Gnan has happened to You.

## Arrangement of pure applied awareness

**Questioner** : How should one do the _shuddha_ _upayoga_ (pure applied awareness)?

**Dadashri** : Keep 'seeing' and 'knowing' what 'Chandubhai' is doing; that is called _shuddha_ _upayoga_. So to 'See' closely ( _nihadavu_ ) your own _prakruti_ (non-Self complex) is called _shuddha_ _upayoga_. _Shuddha_ _upayoga_ means constant awareness. One will not 'fall into', engrossed in anything else. 'Chandulal' eats but 'He' does not get absorbed ( _tanmayakar_ ) in the eating. Not everyone can have such high level of Gnan, but it is more than enough even if only some of it remains. If You 'see' what Chandubhai is doing, that is more than enough. If Chandubhai is absorbed in eating, You just 'see' him, and by doing that You are well ahead. Everyone who has taken this Gnan, they all are in _shuddha_ _upayoga_. And what is _shuddha_ _upayoga_? It is to 'know' 'what Chandubhai is doing? 'Know' in detail, what Chandubhai's mind is doing?

Just as a man seeing a movie, does he not know, what is going on in the movie and in himself? When such details are 'known' by the Self, that is called _shuddha_ _upayoga_. When the 'Seer' ( _drashta_ ) and that which is being seen ( _drashya_ ) are so far apart, that is called _shuddha_ _upayoga_.

Now, how does _shuddha_ _upayoga_ start? When someone is slapping you, You can see that, 'Oh ho ho! This one is slappping even a good man like Chandubhai!' 'You' can 'see' that, and you still believe that the one suffering is Chandubhai, so it is his own fault, is it not? 'You' can 'see' all this exactly, and You 'see' the other man as pure ( _shuddha_ ); 'He' is verily pure. 'He' is just as pure as You are. Even if he has not attained Gnan, 'He' (the Self within) is pure ( _shuddha_ ). 'Your' _upayoga_ (applied awareness) will be spoiled if you believe him to be impure ( _ashuddha_ ). One will question that 'the Self is certainly pure, but what about the external part? The external part is certainly bad, is it not?' The response is, 'no it is not bad for You; it is bad for him (the one who slaps)'. So the self will say, 'So then, Sir show me some justice in this. Why is it not bad for me? He slaps me, and he does it with pleasure.' The answer is, 'It is bad for him but it is not bad for 'You.' This is because You should understand that he is slapping as result of unfolding karma. Whose karma? The one who is being slapped; it is his karma. So now tell Me, how is it the fault of the other person who slaps?' So tell me, there must some method, no? Therefore, in this way, when You 'see' others _nirdosh_ (flawless); that is _shuddha_ _upayoga_. When You 'see' Him as _nirdosh_ when he is cursing you, there is _shuddha_ _upayoga_.

That does not mean that if someone is taking away your wallet with a thousand rupees in it, you should let him. There is no problem if Chandubhai slaps him and takes the wallet back from him. But You should 'see' the entire scene. When he slaps him or takes it away from him by other forceful means, You should 'know' what Chandubhai did, and what the other person did. 'You' should not 'see' any impurity ( _ashuddhata_ ) in him; that is all. This is called _shuddha_ _upayoga_.

**Questioner** : Only the 'Seeing and Knowing' remains, is that called _shuddha_ _upayoga_?

**Dadashri** : Yes, that precisely is _shuddha_ _upayoga_. If bad thoughts arise within, when 'I want to do this, do that,' or thoughts of _kusang_ (bad company) come, You are to 'See' and 'Know' them. Then You have carried out Your duty. But if you become _tanmayakar_ (engrossed in it), you are dead! 'Knowing and Seeing' means not to become _tanmayakar_.

## Shuddha upyoga even while waiting for the bus

Those who have attained this Gnan are not idle even for a minute. I do not have even a minute of free time, not even a second of free time. If people are waiting for a bus and it is late, they will keep looking down the road for it. They will look here and there aimlessly. So if you are standing there, what is the point of looking here and there aimlessly? 'You' have all Gnan, do You not? So when you are waiting for a bus, 'see' _Shuddhatma_ in everyone around you, 'see' _Shuddhatma_ in the people passing by, 'see' _Shuddhatma_ in the passengers in other buses that go past you. This way time will pass and your bus will arrive. So if 'You' keep applying Your meditation ( _dhyan_ ) of _Shuddhatma_ , by 'seeing' _Shuddhatma_ in others, your time will not be wasted, whereas other people will look here and there aimlessly and get irritated. They get upset when the bus does not come. So why would You waste Your _upayoga_? And how much bliss You will experience if You were to keep 'seeing' _Shuddhatma_. So, should You not apply the tool You have acquired? Otherwise, that tool will become rusty.

**Questioner** : This talk about _shuddha_ _upayoga_ , of seeing the relative and the real, when that goes on for a while, mental fatigue and boredom ( _kantado_ ) sets in, and so I look for something elase.

**Dadashri** : If boredom comes, You still have to 'know' it, do You not? Boredom will go away if You 'know' it.

**Questioner** : Yes, Dada. I 'know' when the boredom comes, but despite remaining in _shuddha_ _upayoga_ , boredom comes. Why does it happen?

**Dadashri** : This so called ' _shuddha_ _upayoga_ ' is not really _shuddha_ _upayoga_ ; the mind is involved in it, otherwise how can mental fatigue and boredom come? How can there be boredom in _shuddha_ _upayoga_? When You are just 'seeing' the _shuddha_ (pure) how can it happen? You have to change the way of remaining in _upayoga_.

**Questioner** : When I remain in _upayoga_ , it should give rise to bliss. Such bliss prevents weariness.

**Dadashri** : _Shuddha_ _upayoga_ is that in which there is bliss ( _anand_ ). If boredom comes, then it is not _shuddha_ _upayoga_. You have to stop there. A mistake is beginning to happen.

**Questioner** : But you said that boredom arises when the mind becomes involved in it. What should I do when during _shuddha upayoga_ the mind becomes involved?

**Dadashri** : 'You' keep 'seeing' the mind. You 'know' what state the mind is in at the time.

## Awakened awareness's three shifts after attaining Gnan

You have to take advantage of this human life, because no one will lose His _upayoga_ after attaining this Vignan (Akram Vignan). And this is not just of one shift; this is a factory with three shifts. And after attaining Gnan, is there only one shift?

**Questioner** : No. That is like remaining awake at the cost of losing sleep.

**Dadashri** : What is sleep? It is to place the _Atma_ the Self in a sack and tie it shut from the top. The one who does not have Self-realization ( _agnani_ ) is free to do that and go to sleep. But having attained this Gnan, You have to run three shifts.

**Questioner** : Dada. Do 'I' have the freedom to do so?

**Dadashri** : So am I the only that has such freedom? If you want eternal bliss, bliss that is beyond this world ( _alaukik_ ), then it is the fruit of _shuddha_ _upayoga_.

You do maintain the _upayoga_ , do you not? When people are served a meal that they like, will their _upayoga_ (applied awareness) be in the food or not? Then will your _upayoga_ not be in the money when you are counting it? That is called _upayoga_. If the awakened awareness ( _jagruti_ ) remains still in one place, that is called _upayoga_. It will not disperse everywhere.

**Questioner** : This is the external _upayoga_ that you talk about but that ultimate _upayoga_ ; the _upayoga_ of the Gnani – You said something different about that, no?

**Dadashri** : It is great even if that external _upayoga_ remains. Then only will that _upayoga_ of the Gnan will come. But how can the _upayoga_ of the Gnan come, when there is not even the external _upayoga_?

**Questioner** : Dada, in what form is this external _upayoga_? For example when all the activities of the body-speech-mind begin in the morning, does _upayoga_ come in the action of 'Knowing-Seeing' while remaining separate, and to focus on the awareness of the Self; does _upayoga_ come there?

**Dadashri** : That is considered Gnan. If you are cooking and you don't pay attention, you look around aimlessly, then will someone not tell you to focus ( _dhyan_ ) properly on the cooking or else the food will be ruined? To maintain _dhyan_ (attentive awareness) is called _upayoga_.

**Questioner** : So one has to apply full _upayoga_ in cooking, does he not? When he is cooking?

**Dadashri** : Yes.

**Questioner** : So then this pure _upayoga_ of Ours; if our _upayoga_ goes into cooking, it means our _upayoga_ went into cooking, did it not?

**Dadashri** : Of course.

**Questioner** : Meaning should the _upayoga_ be used-spent or not? If truly the cooking cannot be accomplished without applying _upayoga_ , then how are we to keep Our _shuddha_ _upayoga_ there?

**Dadashri** : Keep _upayoga_ in the cooking. But not in a direct way. Keeping _upayoga_ in cooking means first You should 'know' who is doing the cooking? 'You' should 'know' who is the one cooking. 'You' should 'know' who You are. And You should 'see' what kind of attention is being paid by the one doing the cooking. All that goes on at a time; that is _shuddha_ _upayoga_ (pure applied awareness of the Self).

**Questioner** : So, it is not the action of cooking, or the whole process of cooking that is the impediment; it is not having the awareness that is the hinderance.

**Dadashri** : Yes, that truly is the hinderance.

**Questioner** : For all that to come together is dependent on _vyavasthit_ , no?

**Dadashri** : Yes.

**Questioner** : When I am doing _arati_ , my eyes are closed, and yet I can see Your _arati_ being done or Simandhar Swami's _arati_ being sung, or I can read each word of the _arati_. What kind of _upayoga_ (applied awareness) is that?

**Dadashri** : Even _agnanis_ (those who do not have Self-realization) do that too. They can see everything, when they close their eyes, when one is doing the _divo_ (lighting the oil lamp). In the _upayoga_ , it should be the way I told you. The doer is separate and the Knower is separate. 'You' should 'see' whether the doer in his own nature or not, and You should also 'see' whether the doer is in unawareness or not. Chandubhai maintains his _upayoga_ , and above that, the Self maintains _shuddha_ _upayoga_. When both happen together; that is when it is considered that _upayoga_ has been maintained.

**Questioner** : So, we have to place _upayoga_ while operating any machinary, or while counting money, or while cooking, how should the _upayoga_ be within? Or should it be that 'it would be nice if this were over and that it should not be like this', is that how it should be?

**Dadashri** : No, nothing like that. Nothing obstructs in maintaining the _upayoga_ whatsoever. But _upayoga_ cannot be maintained when that machinery is being assembled, can it? But otherwise, nothing can hinder the One who maintains _upayoga_. 'It should be like this and it should not be like this', that is awareness, not _upayoga_.

The Self, continues to do the work of the Self, Chandubhai continues his own work, Chandubhai's mind continues to do the work of the mind. Each carries out its own work; that is called _upayoga_.

## Missed upayoga while reading

Where did this magazine, ' _Chitralekha_ ' come from?

**Questioner** : When I am reading a story in this magazine, what kind of _dhyan_ (attention) should I have?

**Dadashri** : It is only in the reading.

**Questioner** : So then, it is not called _upayoga_ , is it?

**Dadashri** : Yes, You missed that much, You will have to 'see' it again later.

**Questioner** : So does that mean one should not read at all?

**Dadashri** : 'Not to read'; is that under your control?

**Questioner** : Then Dada, I end up reading it; I get interested in...

**Dadashri** : No, but when you end up reading, as you read, You should maintain awareness on the other side that 'what is happening is wrong. This should not be so'. One goes on reading, but it should be in the mind that, 'this should not happen.'

**Questioner** : Dada, when you read, how do you read?

**Dadashri** : For me, everything remains that way. 'It should not be like this'. Inspite of this I read such material.

## Upayoga while reading scriptures

If you keep reading scriptures, then you become the scripture. You become that what you do. You become the book again. You have become the Self, but then you become the book.

Yes, one will become what he envisions ( _chintavey_ ). So what do You have to do? You should keep 'seeing' what is going on, but how is that? You have to stand at the door of being in Gnan ( _Gnanpanu_ ). What our people refer to as _pragnya_. What is _pragnya_? It is the door to being in Gnan; it shows this is 'home' ( _swa_ ; real; Self) and this is 'foreign' ( _para_ ; relative; non-Self). So when one goes into the foreign, it will tell you, 'You are going into the foreign', so then you turn around and do _pratikraman_ that you will not do it again. So You do eventually turn around. Will _pragnya_ caution you or not, that 'you are headed into the foreign'?

**Questioner** : It will.

**Dadashri** : Yes, then that is all, it cautions you and you turn around, and only by doing this repeatedly, the solution will come. It puts back the _upayoga_ that goes into the 'foreign' (non-Self; the relative), into the Self ( _swa_ ). This is what is to be done. 'You' do not have to go after any other thing.

So if our Gnan is at the door-step of Gnanpanu ( _pragnya_ in operation), then that Gnan will continue to work. It will caution you if you drift into some other _upayoga_ , whereas here, with the Gnani Purush, Your _upayoga_ does not go into anything else. Does it? You do not have to maintain the _shuddha_ _upayoga_ , here it automatically remains on its own. The fruit of being in the presence of the Gnani Purush is _satsang_. You will remain in _shuddha_ _upayoga_. It will not allow any interference to happen at all.

## The protective fence of remaining in upayoga

**Questioner** : As our _mahatmas_ bring the Gnan into _upayoga_ (applied awareness), their state of the Gnan increases, or is it such that they will attain completeness in Gnan through Your grace despite not maintaining _upayoga_ after attainining Gnan?

**Dadashri** : You have to remain only in _upayoga_. It is not possible for your Gnan to increase, if your _upayoga_ remains in the worldly life ( _sansar_ ). The worldly life is something that is settling ( _nikali_ ) and there cannot be _upayoga_ in that which is settling, that which does not need attention. You have to 'see' whatever is happening.

**Questioner** : So Dada, please explain how true _upayoga_ can be maintained.

**Dadashri** : Following the five Agnas is verily the true _upayoga_. When 'You' 'see' _Shuddhatma_ in everyone, when 'You' 'see' that 'this is a file', it is considered as having 'seen' the _Shuddhatma_. Or else if You 'see' it as a 'file', then also 'You have 'seen' the _Shuddhatma_. Therefore, following the five Agnas is _upayoga_. With that the 'Gnan _upayoga_ ' increases further within. The true _upayoga_ keeps increasing. The five Agnas is the protective fence to remain in the _upayoga_. Gnan will never increase without maintaining _upayoga_. _Upayoga_ means that, up until now the _upayoga_ used to remain in the worldly life, the self was functioning in the worldly life, that self is now functioning as the Self; that is called the real _upayoga_. How can the self, function as the Self? The answer is, when the child is spilling milk, You just keep 'seeing' that. You will go over and stop him. 'You' have to tell Chandubhai 'stop the child', but do not do any _kashaya_. You should not become emotional.

## Special explanation of _shuddha_ upayoga

**Questioner** : When I am sitting here, in Your presence, and I ask, through the mind, 'Dada, give me energy; enough energy to follow the five Agnas', can that be considered as _shuddha_ _upayoga_?

**Dadashri** : It is close to _shuddha_ _upayoga_. That is the real tool ( _sadhan_ ) for _upayoga_. Pure _upayoga_ ( _shuddha_ _upayoga_ ) is pure, is it not? What energies do you keep asking for? It is considered the tool for _Shuddha_ _upayoga_. You can go towards the _shuddha_ _upayoga_ with this tool. Pure _upayoga_ ( _shuddha_ _upayoga_ ) is accomplished purity only. You do not even have to ask for it. There is nothing that needs to be done, neither to be acquired nor to be renounced. There is absolutely no _dakho-dakhal_ interference-its reaction there; just _shuddha_ _upayoga_ only. The whole world has _shubha_ - _ashubha_ (auspicious and inauspicious) _upayoga_ , whereas this is _shuddha_ _upayoga_.

**Questioner** : Dada is separating the state of the Self and the state of the non-Self called _upayoga_ exactly?

**Dadashri** : Standing at the door of the 'home department', allow that of the 'home' to enter, and disallow-keep separate, the 'foreign', that is _upayoga._

**Questioner:** Is that the exact _shuddha upayoga_?

That is the exact _upayoga_ of the beginning stage; it is gross _sthula_ _upayoga_.

**Questioner** : That also goes into gross level!

**Dadashri** : 'You' would not even know about the subtle ( _shuksma_ ) level. You would not understand the subtle, even if I were to explain it to you, because it is not graspable through words. So when You experience it, then You will really understand it. There is no need for you to know much. It is more than enough if You reach the gross level.

**Questioner** : After attaining the gross, does it go towards the subtle?

**Dadashri** : That indeed is towards the subtle! 'You' have to clear it only here. If You clear this much, then the subtle will come on its own, You will not have to do anything for it. A thorough applied 'seeing' and understanding ( _parayan_ ) of this has not been done and that is why the other does not come.

**Questioner** : The _upayoga_ will come with this practice ( _abhyaas_ ), right?

**Dadashri** : Man does need to practice, does he not? 'Practice' means to be ready in the awareness of the Self.

**Questioner** : What is that you said?

**Dadashri** : Awareness flows away, gets wasted away. Wrong happened, wrong is happening, but one is not ready in awareness at all. Awakened awareness ( _jagruti_ ) will keep showing that the wrong is being done. Does Your _jagruti_ show You anything?

**Questioner** : It does show all that.

**Dadashri** : The whole day? How high has that _jagruti_ become! The world is searching for it, but such _jagruti_ will not remain for them. I have given You the _jagruti_ that will remain constantly. 'You' have to make use of that _jagruti_. There is the old habit from before; you have a habit of slipping in the slippery places.

**Questioner** : Yes, that is very true.

**Dadashri** : If there You maintain some awareness that 'this is a slippery place and there is likelihood of slipping here', and despite that if it comes in your _udaya_ (unfolding karma), then You have to say, 'Chandubhai, you are slipping, and 'I' am 'seeing' that'. Is there any problem with this approach?

**Questioner** : No.

**Dadashri** : But one slips for sure. And 'He' too will slip along with Chandubhai. So that is where the _upayoga_ has to be maintained. Will a man who is at the edge of a deep water well, think about his wife and children, or will he think of the well? Will he not remain alert when he is sitting on the edge of the well?

Or if one is walking on a two feet wide road, without any side railings, across the ocean, will he remember his wife, or his money, or his bungalows?

**Questioner** : No one will come to his memory.

**Dadashri** : Yes. That is called _upayoga_. Dada has given You the uncontrovertible principle that attains the ultimate ( _siddhant_ ) of _ekavtari_ (a state of one more life before attaining _moksha_ ) path of _moksha_. 'You' should cling tenaciously to that _siddhant_. 'You' should maintain the _upayoga_ exclusively it. The death from falling into the ocean is of only one life, whereas this is the death of hundreds of thousands of life times. 'You' have to tell Chandubhai, 'watch out, pay attention, remain straight'.

## Places which make one will lose the upayoga

**Questioner** : What are the places where one is likely to lose _upayoga_?

**Dadashri** : It is where one tastes the 'sweetness', internally or externally.

**Questioner** : Is it where there is attachment ( _raag_ )?

**Dadashri** : When there is external 'sweetness', when there is talk going on and you like it, then You will lose the _upayoga_ , or if there is extreme heat and suddenly a breeze blows, even then you will lose the _upayoga_. 'You' will get out even when the _upayoga_ was there within. 'Wow, a nice breeze is blowing.' You enjoyed the external pleasure, did you not? A true aware ( _jagrut_ ) person will not lose his _upayoga_! If you derive 'sweetness' from the external talk that is going on, then you will lose _upayoga_. You can maintain the _upayoga_ , if you do not experience any sweetness in it. What is there on the outside to take sweetness in? This is as futile as cultivating soil in a desert. This is like fools making business deals. When two fools are making a settle with each other, what benefit is there from it? So this is how all this is.

**Questioner** : If more _parmanus_ (subatomic particles) of _raag_ (attachment) have been charged, then one will lose the _upayoga_ , will he not?

**Dadashri** : There is no such thing. If you have the taste and interest ( _ruche_ ) for it, then the _upayoga_ will be missed. If you do not have such interest and you have the interest for the Self, then there is no reason for the _upayoga_ to be lost. One loses the _upayoga_ , when a cool breeze blows and he says, 'Wow, how wonderful!' the problem is not with the breeze, but the 'wow' should not happen at that time. When good food comes and you find it very tasty, You will lose _upayoga_. So, when 'we' talk about all this, You will remember it, then You will be able to maintain the _upayoga_. But it is difficult to maintain such awareness ( _jagruti_ ), is it not? Now if you are tired and a nice breeze flows in and you feel 'Wow', _upayoga_ is lost.

## After deep experience, upayoga is natural

**Questioner** : You had once mentioned that, just as one has had a deep experience of _agnan_ (experiencing the world withoutthe knowledge of the Self), he should have an equally deep experience of Gnan.

**Dadashri** : When one has a deep experience of Gnan, then he does not have to apply the _upayoga_ , it will happen on its own. Until he attains a deep experience of Gnan, he has to apply the _upayoga_. _Upayoga_ is considered _purushartha_. And when does _purushartha_ reach completion? When the experience of the Self, becomes deep and intense, then the _purushartha_ is complete.

**Questioner** : So then, when experience of _agnanta_ (the world) arises, does one have to apply that _upayoga_?

**Dadashri** : That is exactly when you are to apply the _upayoga_!

**Questioner** : So then the Self does not get entrapped into the effect of that experience.

**Dadashri** : If the _upayoga_ of the Self will be maintained, then You will not be entrapped in the experience of the ignorance-the world. That time is considered Your own, it is called _samaysaar_ (the essence of the Self). That time does not lose its essence (the Self). Otherwise it is not called _samaysaar_ , it is _parasamaya_ (time in the non-Self). When _upayoga_ is in the Self, it is _samaysaar_. Whatever time is spent as the Self, that is all _samaysaar_ and any time spent in the non-Self is called _parsamaya_.

**Questioner** : The experience of Gnan happens to whom and the experience of _agnan_ happens to whom?

**Dadashri** : The experience of _agnan_ happens to the intellect and ego, and experience of the Gnan happens to _pragnya_.

## Swasamaya, parasamaya and _shuddha_ upayoga

**Questioner** : Is _swasamaya_ the same as _shuddha_ _upayoga_?

**Dadashri** : _Swasamaya_ is _shuddha_ _upayoga_. It starts with _swasamaya._ Before attaining _shuddha_ _upayoga_ (pure applied awareness), _swasamaya_ happens first because that time is spent solely for the Self. The Self has not been attained yet, and because the time spent is only for the Self, then it is called _samayasaar_. It came as a _samayasaar_ , and _shuddha_ _upayoga_ always has _samayasaar_ in it. This is as clear as daylight. Not everyone has _shuddha_ _upayoga_ , so even the people outside (not Self-realized) can do _samayasaar_ , they can earn at least that much. They have a right to do _samayasaar_. The reason it is called _samayasaar_ is because of the time spent is time spent for the Self. That is all _samayasaar_ , and time spent towards the worldly things, it is all _asaar_ (non-essence), it is _parasamaya_ (time spent on non-Self). _Samayasaar_ is a lower state. Other people (non- _mahatmas_ ) cannot have _shuddha_ _upayoga_ , can they? One would ask, can the others earn _samayasaar_ or not? The answer is, one can earn it. His 'capital' will increase in some way or the other. If you understand in details, then you will be able to understand this.

##...His Gnan, _dhyan_ captivates the mind

The whole world is flowing in the stream of the awareness of the non-Self ( _paraupayoga_ ). Absolute equanimity ( _samata_ ) will remain if _shuddha_ _upayoga_ remains. _Samata_ remains in intensely adverse state. Even if one is surrounded by the King's army, or no matter how many bombs are falling around him, no matter how much difficulty has come his way, even then _samata_ absolute equanimity will be there. All the _yogas_ (unions) are for the purpose of bringing about a state of absolute equanimity. pg: 228 If this _samattva_ _yoga_ does not happen, then cry. Go into the jungle and wail! And when such _upayoga_ happens, absolute equanimity is definitely there. That is why this sentence was spoken: ' _Shuddha_ _upayoga_ _ne_ _samatadhari_. _Gnan_ , _dhyan_ _manohari_. (Where there is pure applied awareness and absolute equanimity, there the Gnan and meditation, is captivating). What is Gnan of such a One, like? It is the kind that will conquer the mind. What is the _dhyan_ meditation like? It is the kind that will conquer the mind. _'Karma kalank ko dura nivari, jiva varey Shivanari'._ That One who destroys all traces of karma will attain _moksha. Shivnari_ does not mean Parvati, the wife of Shiva; Shivanari means _moksha_ , the one who has wed Shiva (the Self)

## Beggary of wanting to be worshipped

**Questioner** : Dada, how can one get rid of the beggary of wanting to be worshipped? What kind of an adjustment should be taken against it? How should the _upayoga_ be?

**Dadashri** : When the habit of being insulted is formed.

**Questioner** : I do not want to be a beggar, and all kinds of beggary about this (pride- _maan_ ) lies within.

**Dadashri** : Forget about not being a beggar overtly ( _yachak_ , overt conduct); it is more than enough if you get rid of the underlying desire for respect and pride ( _maan ni bhikha_ ). This beggary ( _bhikha_ ) - if a man curses you when you walk through his compound, then you should walk through his compound everyday and be cursed at, but suffer that cursing with applied awareness ( _upyogapurka, tapa_ ). Otherwise, the old habit ( _bhika_ ) will continue; one becomes _'lihat'_ (crass, non-caring and obstinate).

**Questioner** : What do you mean by tolerating with applied awareness?

**Dadashri** : If someone abducts your sister, will you have love towards the abductor? What will you feel towards him?

**Questioner** : I would have abhorrence towards him.

**Dadashri** : Would that be in a state of awareness or a state of sleep? It would be one hundred percent in a state of awareness. It would be completely with _upayoga_.

Then if one goes to steal would he do it with complete awareness or would he be sleeping (without awarenes)?

**Questioner** : He does so with awareness (with _upayoga_ ).

**Dadashri** : Therefore understand _upayoga_. Here (in matters of the Self) those with _upayoga_ will be of use. When someone insults you and the face spoils and You know of it, then there is no profit-loss. There is no loss, no profit. But outside, when the face spoils, there is a loss. Who incurs the loss? The _pudgal_ (the non-Self complex), not the Self. And if it does not show on the face at all, it remains clear; then the Self has the bliss. The gain is of the Self, is it not?

**Questioner** : How is it a loss to the _pudgal_ (non-Self) when there is digust on the face?

**Dadashri** : There is a loss to the _pudgal_ , is it not?

**Questioner** : But if one maintains awareness in that, then his face will not show anger.

**Dadashri** : Some _mahatmas_ , when they are insulted and their face becomes spoilt, and they will know it. I will ask him, do You 'know' ( _khabar_ ) that? He will say, yes I do. But then, how is he going to fix it? Nonetheless, it has to be fixed. Ultimately it will have to come to the natural ( _sahaj_ ) state. To become _sahaj_ requires the listening of this _satsang_ over and over again, over a long period of time.

**Questioner** : I have to go back into the compound of the one who curses me, but why do I need to do that?

**Dadashri** : You cannot hire anyone to curse you. And it will not have any effect on you, if the one you hired does the cursing. Nothing will be gained from it. When someone is cursing you naturally, then it will give rise to greatest _shakti_ (energy), will it not? So if you are lacking such energy, then you need to acquire some.

**Questioner** : You just showed me how to have _upayoga_ against insults; I understand that, but please shed some light on the _upayoga_ I need to have when someone is respecting me, giving me importance ( _maan_ ).

**Dadashri** : Applied awareness ( _upyogapurvak_ ) in _maan_ means, when someone gives you respect, You should 'know' to whom he is giving respect. 'Not to Me, he is respecting the neighbor; it is being given to the _pudgal_ (non-Self complex).

**Questioner** : I like it when someone gives me respect. So, like a sweet, it........

**Dadashri** : When You say 'it is of the _pudgal_ ', then it will not touch You. 'You' do not have anything to do with it. Respect-insult is given to the _pudgal_ , not to You. That is called with awakened awareness ( _jagrutipurvak_ ); applied awareness ( _upyogapurvak_ ). What do You have to do with it when respect is given to Chandubhai? So if respect-insult is given, put it on his head. Then it will be beneficial, otherwise not.

**Questioner** : Now when someone gives me respect, what if I take it that it is being given to 'Dada', to the Self?

**Dadashri** : No, not like that. 'You' just 'know' that is being given to Chandubhai. What does Dada have anything to do with it? Dada does not have any need for respect, does He? The Self does not have the need for it at all. Proper agreement that is accepted _taado_ should happen. It should be in agreement ( _sahamat_ ) to the Self, that is called fitting. The fitting is only there through agreement. 'You' are able to know that a fault is occurring.

The world will give you what you like. But You should not get into that habit. Not even if they give you respect or insult. If you hire someone to insult you; that is not acceptable, is it?

**Questioner** : No, it is not.

**Dadashri** : And, will it affect you if someone curses you in a drama (a play) saying, 'You are unworthy, you are a thief, you are a rogue', will you be affected if he tells you all that? No, it will not, because that is all a set up.

## Shuddha upayoga is missed in trivial matters

**Questioner** : If I go to a temple for _darshan_ (devotional viewing of the Lord), having spent five hundred rupees to get there, and someone refuses to let us in and so we get upset...

**Dadashri** : Yes, should You lose Your _shuddha_ _upayoga_? And if a small child says no, then you accept that and _shuddha_ _upayoga_ will be maintained. What do You lose there? 'See' the gain from it.

**Questioner** : No, but he refuses as if he owns it...

**Dadashri** : We do not have any issues with ownership but can 'You' afford to lose the _upayoga_ 'You'have attained after millions of life times, for such trivial matter? The Lord would not lose his _shuddha_ _upayoga_ even if his daughter were being abducted, whereas You lose it in trivial matters. This matter is nothing like someone abducting your daughter.

**Questioner** : All these _nimits_ (one whose doership is instrumental as one of the evidences in the unfolding karma effect), are considered beneficial because they are a test as to how much one can remain in _upayoga_ , right?

**Dadashri** : One can remain in the _Shuddhatma_ but how can one remain in _shuddha_ _upayoga_? What is _shuddha_ _upayoga_? It is when someone who is at fault ( _doshit_ ) is seen flawless ( _nirdosh_ ). Even if he is abducting your daughter, if You 'see' him flawless, that is called _shuddha_ _upayoga_. That is because, really speaking, no one is Your daughter, and You are no one's father, this is all a _bhranti_ (illusion).

**Questioner** : But Dada, if _bhranti_ illusion is like that, then who is he to stop us from going into the temple, and who are we to go there?

**Dadashri** : That poor man tells you 'no' due to the _bhranti_ (illusion), and you become upset due to the illusion too! A man without illusion will not say 'no' to you. Once, in my presence, some fifty _mahatmas_ were refused entry into a temple and everyone maintained equanimity. Did they not remain still? _Shuddha_ _upayoga_ was maintained at that time. They did not see that man's fault and so their work was done, was it not?

## How exact is the upayoga when one is counting money!

**Questioner** : Lord Mahavir had told Gautam Swami, ' _Samaya goyam, ma pamaye_ ', meaning do not be even a moment of spiritual laziness ( _pramad_ ). Is it that harmful?

**Dadashri** : Of course there is harm! What do You gain by sticking your hand in other's business? 'Your' 'income' stopped, did it not? 'You' have to be exact in Your own business. A greedy person will always be exact in his own business; such should be the greediness in _shuddha_ _upayoga_.

**Questioner** : Of My _upayoga_?

**Dadashri** : Yes. I have seen how very precise a greedy person remains in his own business. Even when he is sitting here in _satsang_ , when the time comes, somehow or other he will convince you with an excuse and leave. He is very shrewd. Even I would not feel bad, and on top of that he will say something like, 'Sir, my back has been hurting all day', he will say all kinds of things like that, and run off to his business and you will think he has gone home to sleep. He will do anything to protect his greed. Similarly, anything can be done for the greed of this _shuddha_ _upayoga_.

**Questioner** : How can one grab on to the exactness of such an _upayoga_?

**Dadashri** : If you have to repair this machine, you will remember the parts and everything about that machine. This is how _upayoga_ goes on within, and if any of that goes some other place, then that _upayoga_ gets ruined.

**Questioner** : That is ruining an already ruined _upayoga_. Work of machinery is considered a ruined _upayoga_.

**Dadashri** : No, not like that. This is just an example that I am giving you. I am giving you a simile, that when one maintains the _upayoga_ in this, his _upayoga_ is constant in the machinery. When he gets out of that, you will know, on the contrary it becomes all entangled. Or when he is counting money, and if his son comes in, he will get upset and he will forget his count.

**Questioner** : Yes, he will miss it and make a mistake in counting.

**Dadashri** : He will make a mistake. And that is why he will get irritated with his son, he will lose his _upayoga_ when the son does not move from there and he does not like that. People do not lose their _upayoga_ while counting money; that is how wise they are. The whole world is so valiant when it comes to money. They do not lose their _upayoga_ in that matter. They lose it in all other matters.

**Questioner** : When one is counting money, no mistakes happen because there is _upayoga_ in it. Similarly, what is it like in matters related to the 'home department' (the Self)?

**Dadashri** : It is all lost _upayoga_ is it not? Inside it feels like putting a whole bunch of cross marks over the design of the architect. 'You' will 'know' immediately that _upayoga_ is gone, 'pain' ensues.

**Questioner** : You told us the result of losing the _upayoga_ ; as to what happens when _upayoga_ is lost.

**Dadashri** : Yes.

**Questioner** : But how does one know that exact _upayoga_ was maintained? What is it that like?

**Dadashri** : 'You' have to 'see' that the chit does not wander off. 'Our' (Dada's) chit remains still like the cobra when a flute is playing. It should remain still like that. Then _upayoga_ will not move.

When circumstances come in a whole bunch, then _upayoga_ will be pushed away. It will go way off. Then the mind will feel 'alas! the _upayog_ has been missed'. That too, the Knower, 'knows'.

**Questioner** : The Knower 'knows' that. Is that why reconnection is regained with the _upayoga_?

**Dadashri** : Yes. That is why that connection is made again. The boat may get diverted depending upon the winds of the unfolding karma effect but ultimately One will steer it back on his intended path. Sometimes that happens, does it not? It will turn according to the unfolding of karma. If the wind is such, it will turn.

## Shuddha upayoga even while reading

**Questioner** : When talk about two individuals named Chanchal and another by the name of Shanta come to you Dada; what do You 'see' (read) at that time?

**Dadashri** : Yes, during that time their _Shuddhatma_ is in 'our' awareness ( _jagruti_ ). 'Our' vision is verily on the _Shuddhatma_ of Chanchal. When they talk about you, 'our' Vision is on the _Shuddhatma_ of Chandubhai. 'We' do not have unawareness; 'we' have the awareness. But the _upayoga_ is in the reading and the _jagruti_ (awareness) remain together. But that is not considered as ' _shuddha_ _upayoga_ '. When _upayoga_ is not in anything else, then it is called as _shuddha_ _upayoga_. When the _upayoga_ is not in anything else and there is awareness, it is _shuddha_ _upayoga_.

**Questioner** : It will take very long to attain such a stage, will it not?

**Dadashri** : That is why 'we-Gnani Purush' still have a little way to go. A little still remains for 'us', but it is very little. It does not amount to anything. What work do we have anyway? Nothing touches 'us' here. It is a problem for those who are affected.

## Pure awareness as the Self even while speaking

That which 'we' speak, it is with the exact awareness as the Self. When this record plays, 'we' have _upayoga_ (applied awareness) on it. 'We' keep 'seeing' meticulously what mistakes this tape makes and what it doesn't, and whether there is any mistake in this _syadvaad_ (that which hurts no living being), and 'we' have the exact awareness that this speech is a record playing. For you too, it is a record that is playing but you believe and think, 'I am speaking.' 'We' remain constantly in the pure awareness as the Self ( _Shuddhatma_ ), even while 'we' are speaking to you.

**Questioner:** Can there be two _laksha_ (awareness)?

**Dadashri:** No. There cannot be two _laksha_ ; there is only one awareness. 'I' do not have to do anything when I speak. 'We' just keep 'seeing' what happens during the speaking. 'We' will not be out of awareness ( _upayoga_ ) even for a minute, not even for a second. The awareness as the Self is there for sure.

## Shuddha upayoga of mahatmas

_Shuddha_ _upayoga_ is independent. It is One's independence.

**Questioner** : So then Dada, the Gnan You have given to these _mahatmas_ , they too have the same state ( _dasha_ ) right?

**Dadashri** : The same state. But _mahatmas_ have a lot of stock of karma pending as their balance, which will have to be settled, no? Only then will that happen. For Me there is no stock balance, so it works. The remaining stock will have to be settled.

**Questioner** : It is fine in the relative.

**Dadashri** : Yes. But in settling the relative stock balance, the _upayoga_ is missed. It will be missed till then. So _upayoga_ means, say your attention _upayoga_ is in your business, and you meet a man who tempts you. When he entices you, your _upayoga_ will change. That other _upayoga_ will not remain, as you had wanted to. Similarly, _shuddha_ _upayoga_ awareness as the Self will not remain continuously. When unfolding of karma happens, the _upayoga_ will move away.

**Questioner** : Except for the Gnani Purush, no one can continuously maintain the _upayoga_.

**Dadashri** : No, but You too are verily a Gnani, but as long as you have this unsettled stock of karma, you are limited; it is not unlimited. So You too are a Gnani for sure, You have to believe that You are a Gnani, but you should not say, 'I am a Gnani'. Otherwise, then everyday ten people will come and sit around you, and ask 'what happens with this?...what happens with that?...', and create problems for you. Whereas, there will not be any problem if I say I am a Gnani.

**Questioner** : So, why is the _upayoga_ missed in that?

**Dadashri** : It will slowly become continuous. When vehicles go up and down this road, they make us lose our _upayoga_ (you cannot continuously see across the road). When their stock is over, then you will be able to continuously see across. And till then you can say that the _upayoga_ does not remain, but despite that the _upayoga_ is there. Because You 'know' that the _upayoga_ did not remain, means there is _upayoga_. That also is Your _upayoga_.

So the _shuddha_ _upayoga_ , the kind that 'we' are talking about, no one except the Tirthankaras have that _shuddha_ _upayoga_. And for You, it is going to happen. 'You' even know why the _upayoga_ does not remain. 'The _upayoga_ does not remain', You 'know' that too, do You not? That is also Your _upayoga_.

_Shuddha_ _upayoga_ should remain continuously. However much of it remains, it is good. However, some of it will go down, because the files will need to be settled. But that _shuddha_ _upayoga_ should remain continuously. This path itself is one of _shuddha_ _upayoga_! The path, on which karma is not bound, is called a path of _shuddha_ _upayoga_. The path, on which karma is bound, is called path of _shubha_ _upayoga_.

## The way to remain in _shuddha_ upyoga

What do you do when you are travelling in a bus? What do you keep seeing?

**Questioner** : I remember to 'see _Shuddhatma'_ , but at the same time I also think of how the bus is running. What kind of a bus it is and other such things.

**Dadashri** : 'What kind of a cleaner is this?' 'Look, these people are pushing and shoving in this manner', 'they do this to people'! As if you have been appointed a supervisor of everything! What must 'we-the Gnani Purush' be doing?

'We' remain in the _upayoga_ and there is no _bhanjghad_ (break or make) at all.

**Questioner** : How do You maintain _upayoga_?

**Dadashri** : There is no external _ramanta_ (playing in the non-Self)!

**Questioner** : Dada, what is your inner _swaramanta_ (to prevail in the realm of the Self), like?

**Dadashri** : It is exactly as it should be. There is nothing to say about it, is there? Even to have the awareness that ' _swaramanta_ did not happen and that I want to have _swaramanta_ ', is considered as the secondary step.

The whole day, You should make arrangement for the _upayoga_ to remain. If you are asked to leave, then when you go and sit outside for ten minutes, You should make the arrangement for that _upayoga_ to remain from where it was left off. It will start from there again. Otherwise, you will make useless efforts; will you not simply look around aimlessly? When you sit in the train, you will look around aimlessly!

**Questioner** : All day long, I do feel that I want to remain in _upayoga_ , but I am not able to remain on that side.

**Dadashri** : It is a different matter, if You cannot remain in _upayoga_ , but it is a good thing that at least it is in your awareness ( _laksha_ ). 'What have I come here for?', when that happens, it means that You are ready. When you sit in the train and You 'see' _Shuddhatma_ in all the passengers in the compartment; it is nothing but _upayoga_. Following the Agnas is _upayoga_. In the train, you should sit or stand in a place that you can see all the passengers, and once you see them, 'see' _Shuddhatma_ in all of them. When all are 'seen' then do it again; an hour will pass in that way, and it will be time for you to get off the train. That time will have been spent in _upayoga_.

## Dada's Vidhis and Shuddha upayoga

A thought cannot not catch You. If the tuber of thoughts is large, then it will take you away. 'You' will become free of it after a while, but it will take You away. 'Our' tubers have been dissolved, so they never catch us. If they did, then you will feel that Dada is not in the mood. And if he is not in the mood, then he is not a Gnani either.

When 'we' have to do our _vidhis_ , 'we' start the _vidhi_ when the mind is idle, at that time you may get a slight feeling of 'Dada is involved in some work'. Nobody will think that 'we' are not in the mood, 'we' must be in some work, but 'we' continue with that work. 'We' do our remaining _vidhis_. When people come to visit in the afternoon, the _vidhis_ will not get done. So later when I get some free time, 'we' go ahead and do it. That too is in the form of only _shuddha_ _upayoga_.

**Questioner** : When you get a little pause, when this lady came in when you were talking, then when the talk was over and you had two minutes before the new topic began. What happens during those two minutes? Does something immediately...

**Dadashri** : I am in My _upayoga_.

**Questioner** : What is that?

**Dadashri** : In that _upayoga_ , 'our' _vidhis_ also going on within. This talk is going on, _vidhis_ are going on, and some other thing is also going on, 'we' will also 'know' where the _vidhi_ has stopped and I am talking to you. When the talk is over, the _vidhis_ continue and then I talk to you again.

**Questioner** : Because you have one or two minutes of free time...

**Dadashri** : One minute, even if I have a second, I have that in my calculation. 'We' do not have any dozing. You should not think that 'we' are dozing off somewhere.

**Questioner** : No, that is never the case. So in this interval between these two works, what is your arrangement?

**Dadashri** : That is what I look for; so that I can finish that ( _vidhi_ ) if I get some free time.

**Questioner** : So then how should we, the _mahatmas_ , arrange that?

**Dadashri** : You should set it this way internally. 'You' may scold 'Chandubhai'; keep scolding him all day, making sure depression does not happen within. 'You' should not become cruel towards him, nor should you be kind to him. But here people show kindness, 'Go and take a nap, okay?' he will say. Then he sleeps like a log all night!

**Questioner** : What other kind of _vidhis_ do we have to arrange for?

**Dadashri** : Yes, you can. _Vidhi_ means you want to do a certain kind of activity that has nothing to do with the worldly life, nothing to with the Self. An activity that is in between, meaning 'a free zone'.

**Questioner** : You just said that during some free time I should scold Chandubhai, so is that action any give or take with the Self?

**Dadashri** : It is to do with the Self.

**Questioner** : Worldly activity is something to do with the worldly life.

**Dadashri** : Yes.

**Questioner** : So then, what is the free zone?

**Dadashri** : Free zone is within; of neither here nor there.

**Questioner** : So, when we say the Namaskar _vidhi_ , the Trimantra, etc; is that all for the Self?

**Dadashri** : That _vidhi_ is not considered for the Self, nor is it considered for the body.

**Questioner** : So then what happens at that time?

**Dadashri** : You are doing that to maintain Your awareness; so that You do not doze off. It is the fruit without _shuddha_ _upayoga_.

**Questioner** : Yes, so then fruit of that _upayoga_ goes towards the Self?

**Dadashri** : That is not considered as _shuddha_ _upayoga_. That _upayoga_ is just awareness only. It is just to keep the flame burning. So it is considered as being neither here, nor there.

**Questioner** : And what about when I scold him (Chandubhai)?

**Dadashri** : Scolding means its clear that You are on the side of the Self, are You not?

**Questioner** : So it is for the Self?

**Dadashri** : Yes. This is how 'our' _vidhi_ remains for two-three hours a day. Otherwise, how and where would 'we' spend twenty four hours of our time?

**Questioner** : What kind of _vidhi_ is that _vidhi_ You have for that free zone; which is neither for the Self, nor for the worldly life?

**Dadashri** : These _vidhis_ of Namaskar _vidhi_ and the Nine Kalams, which have come to be known in the world. Those are being recited daily, for 'us' too.

**Questioner** : Are they for the Self or not?

**Dadashri** : What has the Self got to do with it?

**Questioner** : So can we say that it clears the worldly life?

**Dadashri** : What does it have to do with the worldly life?

**Questioner** : So what good does it do?

**Dadashri** : No give or take with the Self. And it does not have anything to do with the worldly life, either. And He will 'say' that it has nothing to do with him either. So what does that mean? It becomes neutral. This is a way to make the worldly life neutral. This _lafroo_ (that which possesses a person) for you is destroyed, its relation is destroyed, the external one. The need is not to increase the internal relation but to let go of the external one.

**Questioner** : So when one is absorbed in the _vidhi_ , does the relationship with the worldly life go away?

**Dadashri** : It is stopped. That is the goal. More time goes into it, so that much of the time in the worldly life is broken. Still it is not considered either for the worldly life or for the Self.

**Questioner** : But what we say in these _vidhis_ , for example in the Nine Kalams, there are inner intents in them which oppose all the worldly life, such as there should not be any disrespect, harsh language towards anyone, are there not?

**Dadashri** : What it is is that we are moving aside the worldly life; in that there is no _sansaar bhaav_ (worldly intents). It is not that we are pushing aside worldly life and attaining the Self. As You move aside the worldly life, You will become the Self for sure. You are the Self indeed, anyway. So on both the sides; there is no _bhaav_. Not real, not relative.

**Questioner** : Now, this _siddhastuti_ ( _vidhi_ that establishes the Self) that we recite, 'I am _Shuddhatma_ ' and 'I am infinite knowledge', what does it all go into?

**Dadashri** : Yes, that goes towards the Self. But that is not to be said in that _vidhi_ ; the _vidhis_ like the Nine Kalams, Namaskar _vidhi_ etc., they are to be said when you have free time. The _Charan Vidhi_ does not come into it; it is to be read in the day when you are alert. During other _vidhis_ (all _vidhis_ except the _Charan Vidhi_ ), if you fall asleep while saying them, it is fine. When you wake up and become aware, then it is fine if that _vidhi_ comes back to you. But it is not fine with the _Charan Vidhi_ ; there cannot be any piece work in it.

**Questioner** : So when should one do the _Charan Vidhi_?

**Dadashri** : It can be done any time of the day when one is wide awake. At that time 'You' have to say, 'Chandubhai, come on do the _vidhi_!'

And it is for the Self. Whereas, all the other _vidhis_ , like Namaskar Vidhi, Nav Kalams etc. they are not for any side (the Self or the non-Self). With them, one says, 'I am like those who became free from this worldly life'. There one says, 'I have come out of the worldly life'. So does that mean you are the Self? The answer is, 'I am the Self; what's left for me to ask? However I am becoming free from this worldly life.

**Questioner** : Otherwise, if I had not remained in the _vidhis_ , then the worldly life...

**Dadashri** : Then one will get into the worldly life for sure. As it is, one is in the worldly life; he will not be able to come out of the worldly life. And that is why I had taken the highest of solutions and it has been going on for a long time, even before I attained the Gnan.

Internally, within 'us', the _vidhis_ are immediately going on. Yes, when 'we' bow down 'like this' to the One (the absolute Self) within, the _vidhi_ is going on. What is there within? There must be something, then only will this happen, will it not?

**Questioner** : The Lord of the fourteen worlds is there, right?

**Dadashri** : Yes, but 'our' _vidhi_ is going on internally, while 'we' are talking to you, everything is going on within. So 'we' do not spend too much time in talking. If we are in some kind of a _vidhi_ and if it is necessary for us to talk, then we stop the _vidhi_ and settle with the task at hand.

**Questioner** : Which of the two is important?

**Dadashri** : Neither of the two. Whatever happens at the time; that is correct.

## Knower-Seer state even when doing vidhi

**Questioner** : Now, there is a Knower-Seer of the _vidhi_ that is going on, is there not?

**Dadashri** : Yes, there is that also. 'Our' _vidhi_ is never without the Knower-Seer ( _Gnata-Drashta_ ). 'With applied awakened awareness' ( _upayoga purvak_ ), means that One is aware of a mistake when it happens; if he has a 'photo' within, he can see the exact face. When he says, 'Arihantanam', he can 'see' the Arihant.

**Questioner** : When I am free, I say 'I am _Shuddhatma_ ', or I read the _Charan Vidhi_ ; is that considered _upayoga_?

**Dadashri** : Yes. You should memorize the _Charan Vidhi_ so much, that when You read it, without a book, with your eyes closed, and You can see every word you read, then there is no greater _Gnata_ - _gneya_ (Knower-that what is to be known) relation than that. That is called _shuddha_ _upayoga_. Saying the _Charan_ _Vidhi_ and at the same time reading it; that is _shuddha_ _upayoga_.

**Questioner** : It is a very good thing that I got to know, about 'reading' it.

**Dadashri** : Yes. It is _gneya_ (that which is to be known), and You are _Gnata_ (Knower). When 'we' sit here all day, tell me what should 'we' have our _upayoga_ in? There may be days, when 'we' do not have 'customers' (no one comes to _satsang_ ). What if there are no 'customers' at all? When the 'customers' are there, there is _upayoga_ in the 'customers', but where is our _upayoga_ when there aren't any customers? We have many kinds of _upayoga_ , they are all _shuddha_ _upayoga_

'We' do not have _shubha_ _upayoga_ (auspicious awareness). 'You' do not have _shubha_ _upayoga_ either. 'You' all have _shuddha_ _upayoga_ , but you do not fully know how to do 'business' with _shuddha_ _upayoga_. So often the 'customers' go away empty handed. 'You' do not make any 'profit' and the 'customers' have to go back empty handed. And for 'us', the customers leave everything to 'us'.

**Questioner** : Where does your _upayoga_ mainly remain in?

**Dadashri** : All of 'ours' is _shuddha_ _upayoga_. If there is nothing going on, then 'we' set up the arrangement. Something like this, if there is free time, then 'we' arrange the _shuddha_ _upayoga_. If the _Gnata_ - _gneya_ relation starts to 'leave', and the _gneya_ (what is to be known) stops to be 'known', then the Self can not be left 'alone'. Because the absolute Knower ( _Gnayak_ ) is the eternal light, in which _gneya_ should shine brightly for sure. Until the _gneya_ shine brightly, it is not considered _shuddha_ _upayoga_. So, 'we' quickly insert something like this ( _vidhis_ ) wherever 'we' can. That will last about two to two and half hours and then all these people will ask, 'What are you doing?' So 'we' tell them that 'we' are doing _vidhis_. 'We' do a two to two and half hour _vidhi_ everyday. Such _vidhi_ has to be done till midnight. Even during the day, the _vidhi_ has to be done.

If I am not able to do _vidhi_ due to a large crowd, if there are many 'clients', then the _vidhi_ will be done at midnight or one AM. 'We' may have a lot of customers today, but tomorrow we many not and so we will miss out on that. Therefore You must keep the other account ( _shuddha upayoga_ ) in place, without fail.

## These vidhis will also help those who do not have Gnan

**Questioner** : If someone who has not taken Gnan were to 'live in' the Nine Kalams, Trimantra etc. all day long, will his worldly life get moved aside?

**Dadashri** : He will gain in that other way.

**Questioner** : So does he get the benefit of earning merit karma _(punyai)?_

**Dadashri** : No, not the benefit of merit karma. His ego continues to become pure (cleansed here).

**Questioner** : So these _vidhis_ help an _agnani_ (without Gnan Vidhi) become 'pure', do they not?

**Dadashri** : Yes it will make him pure.

**Questioner** : Otherwise, since he lives in the worldly life ( _sansaar_ ), it means that he has anger-pride-deceit-greed. And when he remains in the _vidhis_ , then it is not considered as anger-pride-deceit-greed.

**Dadashri** : They ( _vidhis_ ) purify the ego; they reduce the _kashayas_ (anger-pride-deceit-greed).

## Vidhis done according to arrangement is not mechanical

**Questioner** : When I do these _vidhis_ in my free time, it feels as if it has become mechanical; there is no _upayoga_ in it.

**Dadashri** : They are not considered _vidhis_ if they become mechanical, are they?

**Questioner** : What should it be like so that they do not become mechanical?

**Dadashri** : You should never say it has become mechanical, even if it feels to you that it has become mechanical. Then it will definitely become mechanical.

**Questioner** : What should I say?

**Dadashri** : 'You' should understand that there is a weakness there. Then that weakness will go away.

**Questioner** : And what should it be like?

**Dadashri** : It should be 'seen' with complete awareness. I tell everyone to do _dhyan_ (visualize the face of Gnani Purush Dadashri) at night and then go to sleep. They feel in their mind, that they cannot visualize the face exactly. They should feel that they cannot see the face exactly, but that is not considered mechanical. They are trying. It is considered mechanical, if there is no "try" (attempt).

**Questioner** : These _vidhis_ begin in the surplus time and that too it only happens when that arrangement is made; does it not? So it cannot be considered mechanical.

**Dadashri** : Yes, so the arrangement has been made, has it not? How can it happen if the arrangement has not been made? When you arrange it that way, it will happen with awareness, and therefore it cannot be considered mechanical. Even ten percent occurs with awareness, does it not?

**Questioner** : It does.

**Dadashri** : So then ninty percent unawareness is not considered mechanical. Mechanical is something that continues on its own. All the activities carried out by the worldly people are all considered mechanical. There is no _bhaav_ (inner intent) in it even to speak of.

**Questioner** : So when this _vidhi_ is happening, if I start thinking that it is not mechanical, then...

**Dadashri** : It cannot happen mechanically, how can it become mechanical? It is considered mechanical, if there is no connection ( _bhaav_ ) in it on Your part.

**Questioner** : This talk about the _vidhis_ becoming mechanical...

**Dadashri** : You cannot say 'mechanical'. You cannot call it 'mechanical'. It is a grave liability to say 'mechanical'.

**Questioner** : It is really not mechanical.

**Dadashri** : The word 'mechanical' cannot be there!

**Questioner** : So on the one side the _vidhis_ are going on but the _dhyan_ (attention) is somewhere else. The _vidhis_ are going on internally but my attention is all over the place; that is how it is.

**Dadashri** : But that does bother you from within, does it not?

**Questioner** : It does.

**Dadashri** : If it bothers you, then it cannot be called mechanical. If it does not bother you from within, then it is considered mechanical. Even that is not exactly mechanical. It is not your intention to do it mechanically. Mechanical is something completely different.

## Samayik, pratikraman keeps One in Shuddha upayoga

**Questioner** : During this surplus time, one _samayik_ (to Be the Self, and to 'see' the self) is to be done to 'see' what Chandubhai has been doing since the morning. So then I 'see' all that; what does it fall under? I can also see all other faults, the process of 'seeing' faults, the action of doing _pratikraman_...

**Dadashri** : Yes, all that goes into the Self.

**Questioner** : Is that considered _shuddha_ _upayoga_?

**Dadashri** : Yes. It goes towards the Self, and thus it is _shuddha_ _upayoga_. The only difference between being in _shuddha_ _upayoga_ and being in the Self is that _shuddha_ _upayoga_ is with awareness ( _upayogapurvak_ ). _Shuddha_ _upayoga_ means if someone were to slap you, Your established experience that he is a _Shuddhatma_ prevails, and hence there is no reaction from you.

**Questioner** : And what does 'remain in the Self' mean?

**Dadashri** : What we just talked about, that is what remaining in the Self means.

**Questioner** : So, it is to close my eyes and 'see' all the faults.

**Dadashri** : That is all called 'remaining in the Self.' And that other is called _upayoga_. That is the ultimate _upayoga_. 'Who is the one slapping?', 'Who is he slapping?', 'Who am I?', 'What is all this?', 'Knowing' all that is _shuddha_ _upayoga_. 'Who is at fault?', 'The one slapping?', 'Who is slapping?', 'Who is being slapped?', 'You' have to 'Know' all that.

**Questioner** : That is considered the ultimate _upayoga_.

**Dadashri** : Yes.

**Questioner** : When one experiences such _upayoga_ , is it tantamount to being the Self?

**Dadashri** : That is different, is it not? That is a different thing altogether!

This man's practice is very good, whenever anything comes to him, He becomes free from it by saying, 'it is not mine.'

**Questioner** : But at that time one has to maintain the awareness of 'Who am I?' right?

**Dadashri** : That awareness ( _jagruti_ ) is there for sure. The one saying 'this is not mine' is in that awareness at that time. It is also awareness when you 'this is not mine!' Because you have been given awareness of what is Yours and what is not.

## Arrangement of _shuddha_ upayoga in the car

What benefit does one gets when He lives by 'our' Agnas for twelve hours?

**Questioner** : _Samadhi_ is there for Him, for sure .

**Dadashri** : That is completely a different matter. How easy and straightforward it is, and yet does it remain for You? It is great weakness if You do not. One should remain in _shuddha_ _upayoga_ everywhere. Do what you have to do and then back into _shuddha_ _upayoga_. What do You gain, when You remain in _upayoga_ for two hours?

**Questioner** : The state like that of Lord Mahavir will be there for Me.

**Dadashri** : Never before has anything this simple and straightforward arisen and yet people do not take advantage of it. So what can be done? How simple and straightforward it is! When you were sitting in the car with me, will it not do if you do not converse with me? You go on doing _darshan_ with _shuddha_ _upayoga_ , but there is no strong _nischaya_! There is no such thing, is there? One goes home and makes a firm decision, and if his _upayoga_ wanders off, then he does _pratikraman_ for it. Otherwise, can he have such a state? This state is such that Your work for _moksha_ will be accomplished. When _upayoga_ goes out, one does _pratikraman_.

There is nothing left here to be asked. 'You' just have to follow the Agnas. One binds karma if he becomes the doer. He has 'our' Agna, so he does not bind the karma through doer-ship. That is because he 'does' by following 'our' Agnas.

At times, when you are driving, you cannot see _Shuddhatma_ in others. You cannot see real-relative. At that time you have to focus on the driving. But should others sitting in the car not maintain their _upayoga_?

**Questioner** : I can see even when I am driving.

**Dadashri** : No, at times it becomes weak, but actually one can see. Many drivers have told me, 'Dada I continue 'seeing' everything; a pothole ahead, some other things that come and also that this file number one is driving. The drivers remain nicely in _shuddha_ _upayoga_.

## Now moksha will come ahead

As far as possible, only _shuddha_ _upayoga_ should remain. For that, you should not worry at night, just go to sleep peacefully. What I am saying is that you should not stay up worrying about it. But since You have become a _purush_ (the Self), You have to put in greater _purushartha_. 'You' have to make a firm decision that 'You' want to maintain _shuddha_ _upayoga_. Thereafter, if you cannot maintain it, then that is a matter that is to be settled. And you do not have to rush it, you do not have to become restless, _moksha_ will come to You, You do not have to go there. The station will automatically come to the one sitting in the train; he just has to sit there.

**Questioner** : We are sitting in the train, now. Are we not?

**Dadashri** : Yes, that is why I am telling you that. What I am saying is that it will keep coming. You just have to follow the Agnas, nothing else; you are not to worry about _moksha_. This ticket of the Agna is such that it will take You there.

**Questioner** : I have to understand the Agna, Dada.

**Dadashri** : Yes, of course You do have to understand all that. The understanding is necessary. Many have understood them. But some are lacking in understanding them.

## The Self should not be left out of Your attention even for a second

Let us take an example of a tweny-five year old woman with a baby?

**Questioner** : Yes, with a baby.

**Dadashri** : Will she leave the baby ' _veelo'_ (out of mind and out of attention)?

**Questioner** : No she will not.

**Dadashri** : She has to leave him when she goes for a bath but she will not let him out of her mind and constant attention ( _veelo_ ). She is aware whether 'he is crying', whether 'he is cold'. 'What must be happening to him?' 'What must he be doing?' – she will be constantly aware and attentive. Similarly, You are not to leave the Self _veelo._ In this world the one thing that does not left out of constant attention, is the child of a mother. She will not let him out of her mind and attention even while taking a bath or while eating. 'The baby is crying...this is what happened...he moved...he is going to fall' etc.

**Questioner** : So, One has to 'see' what the _prakruti_ is doing?

**Dadashri** : That, You certainly have to 'see' for sure, but many times one is in the _prakruti_ itself. All day he is in the _prakruti_ (the non-Self complex). So, what does He have to do at that time? Just like she keeps an eye on the child, He has to 'keep an eye' on the Self. This is how You do not leave the Self _veelo._

**Questioner** : Even if she leaves the child in the care of her husband, she will not let him out ( _veelo_ ) of her mind and awareness.

**Dadashri** : Even then she will say, 'He is dim-witted. He is not reliable!'

**Questioner** : Her heart is in that child only.

**Dadashri** : That is how it should be for the Self! 'We' have not allowed it to be _veelo_ even for a moment. For two to five years prior to attaining Gnan, 'we' have not allowed it to be out of our attention ( _veelo_ ); that is why 'we' gave you the example of a young mother. Is a mother ever likely to let her baby out of her attention ( _veelo_ )? Ask any mother whether her child is ever out of her attention ( _veelo_ ). Or, if you are a woman, then you can inquire yourself as to what you do to not let him be out of your attention, then you will know it.

**Questioner** : One will notice that immediately if one looks at any mother's behavior.

**Dadashri** : Therefore, in the same way You are not to keep the Self out of continuous attention. Do not leave the Self _veelo._ What is difficult in that? Even when she has many children and she does not to let them be out of her attention ( _veelo_ ), she does not earn a great prize. But, here You will receive the great prize, in the form of _moksha_. So do not lose the constant attention of the Self.

**Questioner** : Dadaji, just as a mother keeps an eye on her child, she is doing it for his safety, so that he does not get hurt, he does not burn himself anywhere, he does not do anything wrong; what kind of attention do we have to pay with reference to the Self?

**Dadashri** : Just like you do with a child, when you keep an eye on him telling him 'You can't do that...you can't do that', You have to pay attention to the Self. The Self is not going to get burnt. Pay attention ( _dhyan_ ) to the Self means that there should be awareness of the Self; it should not be lost during anything that is happening.

**Questioner** : Dada, in the other situation, it is in mother's awareness, but leaving aside the matter of a child, here I am not even aware as to where I fail to remain in the Self. Where do I fail to maintain the _dhyan_ (attention, meditation) of the Self? Where do I slip? I will remember if You tell us where.

**Dadashri** : 'You' have to pay attention to the Self as you would to a child. 'You' should not let it be out of your attention ( _veelo_ ), and why does it happen? It is because you have a habit of giving in to your desire for tthat which is sweet and pleasant in the world. 'I want this and I wants that', all the worldly desires. One should not have any desires at all, should he? 'All these desires should end, whatever comes is fine', that is how You should live.

**Questioner** : So, when I become engrossed ( _tanmayakar_ ) in other things, is that when the Self is considered to have been allowed to be out of My attention ( _veelo_ )?

**Dadashri** : What else, the Self is let to be out of Your attention ( _veelo_ ). But You should not have other desires, should You? Enjoy what comes to you. What I am saying is that you can sit here and enjoy ice-cream, who tells you not to? But it is wrong to ask for a second and third serving. You will not let go of what is in your hand, will you? If the Self remains in Your awareness, then go ahead and eat ten such dishes. But how can you afford to eat all that, when You do not have the awareness of the Self?

**Questioner** : Dada, it must be because I have not understood the value of the Self, that I fail to maintain the attention. Why can I not be in this attention at this time?

**Dadashri** : If you realize the value of a diamond, your chit will be wherever it has been placed. If a million dollar worth diamond is placed somewhere by you, you will go there again and again to see it. And what if it is worth only five hundred dollars? You have understood the value of the Self, but the old habits do not go away. They are _paudgalik_ habits (of the non-Self), are they not?

The file has to wash and bathe and does it not have to go to work? Even while working, 'You' should not let go of the attention on the Self.

**Questioner** : So, should the awareness ( _laksha_ ) of 'I am _Shuddhatma_ ' prevail?

**Dadashri** : Yes. 'You' should not miss that. When you are working, 'You' should not lose the awareness of the Self. 'You' cannot leave it _veelo._

**Questioner** : So when I go away from Dada, I leave Dada, but I do not leave Dada _veelo_ out of my attention.

**Dadashri** : Yes, that remains naturally (in your awareness) for all of You. 'You' are not leaving Dada alone. You remember this much. You can say that this awareness remains; the other, 'I am pure Soul' You have to keep it.

**Questioner** : I can remember Dada because He is present ( _pratyaksha_ ). But after You give us Gnan, I should remember, 'I am _Shuddhatma_ ', should I not?

**Dadashri** : 'I am _Shuddhatma_ ' is in your awareness ( _laksha_ ) for sure. Chandubhai will know that he is Chandubhai, he does not have to remember that. It is there.

**Questioner** : Then the question about letting it astray ( _veelo_ ) does not even arise, does it?

**Dadashri** : Yes, but up until now, you had believed your self to be what you are not; and what You are, you have not believed, so because of this change, You have to keep it in awareness.

**Questioner** : So it means that past experience, 'I am this body complex' comes in the middle, as hindrance?

**Dadashri** : That is precisely what comes in the middle. Because of that, it-the Self, is let astray. And it multiplies. If You attend to it for just one day, it will give rise to two days worth of energy. If You attend to it for two days, it will give rise to four days worth of energy. And if You do not take care of this, it will continue to leak away.

## Shuddha upayoga, in exactness...

What does he say? He says, ' _upayoga_ remains very well for me'. So he brought _upayoga_ to a very low level, right?

**Questioner** : Dada, not continuous.

**Dadashri** : No, not continuous, but not even for a minute. _Upayoga_ is a different thing. That is considered as having _dyhan_ ( _attention_ ). The One, in whose hands comes the _upayoga_ ; is considered to have become an _Atmagnani_. You have the _upayoga_ of your own level. One will have that awareness ( _jagruti_ ), will He not? Did you have such _upayoga_? That which You had is not considered _upayoga_ , is it? You believe it to be so at your level. Your level is different, his level is different; everyone's level is different. But it is good if it ( _upayoga_ ) is of that level. But do not think that You are in real _upayoga_. Otherwise, You will not be able to progress to higher levels of _upayoga_.

You may say that you remained in good _upayoga_ all day yesterday. If you tell me, I will not listen, because I know what you consider as _upayoga_?

**Questioner** : This awareness remains, Dada's _dhyan_ (visualization of Dada and His satsang) remains, I remember what Dada talked about, that is what I call as _upayoga_.

**Dadashri** : Yes, that is precisely what I am saying. That is because you have retained ( _dharan_ ) that much. The energy to retain has arisen within. Do not believe that to be _upayoga_. _Upayoga_ depends upon each individual's capability.

**Questioner** : Yes, the real _upayoga_ is a different thing.

**Dadashri** : Would he have understood what I am trying to say?

**Questioner** : I understand that there is a mistake in what I believes _upayoga_ to be. _Upayoga_ is a different thing.

**Dadashri** : What has come into Your awareness ( _laksha_ ) is what You have retained. You do not have the energy to retain ( _dharan shakti_ ) all at once. The energy to retain means everything I say becomes retained and it will never leave, it will remain as it is. Everyone has taken the meaning of _upayoga_ in his own language. That is not the main _upayoga_ ; I allow that too. I would not get into such a meticulous analysis. But when he started to say that now he has _upayoga_ , I said to myself that this is enough, they have the wrong meaning of _upayoga_.Dadaji's spoken words that are kept in awareness _laksha_ is the awakened awareness _jagruti._ That awareness _jagruti_ will continue increasing. But that is not called as _upayoga_. You can say, 'the awareness ( _jagruti_ ) was good yesterday'. But you cannot call it the main thing; _upayoga_.

**Questioner** : So _upayoga_ is still not established in the original place?

**Dadashri** : It is difficult to come to the main place. You just have the awareness ( _laksha_ ) that is all. Without the experience ( _anubhav_ ) of the main thing, the Self, how can _upayoga_ arise? The level and state of 'I am this'(the Self) should not change at all, with its endless locations ( _anant_ _pradesho_ ). Presently, at times mistake may still arise internally with the belief. Would this be the _atma_ or would that be the _atma_? Some mistakes do happen internally, it gets mixed up.

**Questioner** : And as long as those effects ( _asar_ ) happen again within; then it is a mistake for sure, is it not?

**Dadashri** : Yes. So the main thing ( _vastu,_ the Self) is a different thing. The main thing, with its infinite locations ( _pradesho_ ), is completely pure, it is clear, and it is exactly that way all the time. Thereafter does _upayoga_ become exact _shuddha_ _upayoga_. Until then, _shuddha_ _upayoga_ is there but it is fractional. The One who has come here into the circle can 'see' that, and those coming into the surrounding circles can 'see' that. That is called _jagruti_ (awakened awareness). But it cannot be considered complete _shuddha_ _upayoga_. _Shuddha_ _upayoga_ is a very elevated thing. Nevertheless the other can be called _upayoga_. Taking into consideration the basis of his vision; based on that awareness, we allow it but people will not accept that. 'We' allow it as an encouragement. But, when he said that, then 'we' did not encourage it. I thought to myself, 'this will lead to the wrong thing.'

Whatever he retained; that much remained good. Otherwise there is no retention! The awareness of what 'we' speak does not remain, does it? It is all forgotten again. How much awareness remains for You of what 'we' speak? The energy and power of our words ( _vacchanbud_ ) is there but how much awareness do You have?

'We' say for the purpose of encouraging someone, but that does not mean that he will be able to accomplish everything by just remaining at that point. And really that cannot be called as _upayoga_ even for the purpose of giving encouragement. That is not _upayoga_ at all. In the meantime, with whatever retention power he has, he will be able to retain what 'we' speak, but even that energy has not blossomed yet. That ability will gradually blossom as he stays around in _satsang._ But it is not called _upayoga_ (applied awareness). It is called _jagruti_ (awareness). He does have such awareness. Still, if he sticks around here, he will benefit some day.

The awareness remains; when he gets all the solutions the moment he looks – that is not called as _shuddha_ _upayoga_! It is called _jagruti._

## Devoted to who? The non-Self or the Self

**Questioner** : This awareness ( _jagruti_ ) gets veiled in the worldly life interaction ( _vyavahar_ ). Whenever any occasion comes, I become _tanmayakar_ (engrossed, become one with it) in it.

**Dadashri** : The self goes into the machinery while working with it, because it is considered devotion ( _bhakti_ ) to the machinery. Machinery always asks for your devotion to it; _tanmayakar bhakti_. Otherwise you will not be able to tighten even one nut. That is why, from a very young age, 'we' did not touch any machinery. I used to have someone else repair even the punctures on my bicycle. If my attention ( _dhyan_ ) went into that, it would ruin everything. I did not turn even a nut. I would say that I did not know how to do it, so I would pay someone. You are still repairing machines; what happens during that time for an hour? The self will remain it that, will it not? This is beecause that is called devotion.

**Questioner:** With me, it is like this: All the time that I am in _your_ _seva_ (service), I do not remember the Self, and I do not remember the Agnas.

**Dadashri:** There is no problem, in your case, if you do not remember. This service to Dada, is considered a wonderful thing. One involved in this service does not need to remember the Self at all.

**Questioner:** I remember only Dada, at that time.

**Dadashri:** But whose _bhakti_ (worship, devotion) is happening, that is the thing You need to 'see'. You may or may not remember Atma-the Self, 'I' have given You the _laksha_ (awakened awareness), so some time or other that _laksha_ will return, but whose _bhakti_ is it? That is the thing 'You' need to 'see'. You will keep becoming like the one you worship.

**Questioner:** That is very lofty, Dada.

**Dadashri:** Yes, it is great that is why I am telling all these people that, 'Dear fellow, you have attained something which is very great. Your merit karma has awakened.' This will happen to some, no? I am not such a person who would take someone's service. I am not such a weak person who would let someone do my _seva_. When the hip fractured, it happened that I had to let Niruben serve me. Otherwise I will not take service from anyone. I have not taken anybody's personal service in life.

Whereas, you are doing ' _bhakti_ ' of machines. One becomes what one worships. A lot of awareness has arisen in doing _bhakti_ of _shrut gnan_ ( listening to Gnan) and all of a sudden there is a lot of light. That light will stop with the _bhakti_ of machinery. 'You' have to 'see' whose bhakti is being done. The nature of the Self ( _swabhav_ ) is that it becomes what it envisions ( _chintavan_ ). That is why I say, that tremendous merit karma of Niruben, have come to fruition. I say this, why do I say this to people? Otherwise, I would not even say anything!

**Questioner:** Dada, even I understood more about that merit karma ( _punyai_ ) today!

**Dadashri:** Do You understand? Where the risk-danger exists and where it does not. Who did You worship that brought forth such inner light? The self becomes that which it envisions. The original attribute of Atma is such that whatever it envisions ( _chintavey_ ) through _chit,_ whatever it worships ( _bhakti_ ), it becomes that. That is why I am telling everybody to stay close to the Gnani. But why do 'we' let you go? You do have files, so You definitely need to settle the files.

And as far as Niruben is concerned, I would not pay attention even if the other kind of awareness does not stay in her. What is the reason for that? Because the real cause has been laid. One cannot get such _bhakti_ (devotion), _seva_ (service) of a Gnani; it is very rare. One cannot find such cause (effect to come later) at all.

What is the main attribute of the Self? It becomes what it 'sees' in the circle around. Whoever one worships, he becomes that. If he worships mango pulp and _rotli_ (very thin soft flat bread), he will like become mango pulp and _rotli_.

**Questioner** : Does he charge new karma for the next life, at that time?

**Dadashri** : New is not charged. A veil ( _avaran_ ) comes over 'You'. When you become the doer, then karma is charged; otherwise a veil comes over 'You'. After the veil comes over, You stop 'seeing'. It became unveiled ( _niravaran_ ) due to the _bhakti_ of _shrutgnan_ (listening to the words of the Gnani Purush, here.). It became unveiled due to years of _shrutgnan_ _bhakti_. It will shine later!

The machinery itself will ask for devotion to machinery. There is no machinery in civil engineering as compared to mechanical engineering. There is thinking and all that in the civil; it is more possible for the one in civil engineering to 'see' and 'know'.

**Questioner** : Even in that, there is some _avaran_ , is there not?

**Dadashri** : It will all come. Everything is harmful. Wherever there is worldly intent, it is harmful. Karma is bound through doer-ship ( _karta_ - _bhaav_ ). When you are repairing a machine, doer-ship does not arise and therefore karma is not bound, but a veil of ignorance ( _avaran_ ) comes over 'You' when you do it. Pitch darkness will happen all at once. All these things that are happening, those processes stop too. How can any work be done? How can any other work be accomplished? And this light that has arisen; becomes shrouded with veils ( _avaran_ ) without fail. Still, if you have to do it, it is fine if everything else is there, but there should not be any machinery. That which you have to do in your work, it is mandatory ( _farajiyat_ ). What can one do, if the account of karma is all arranged?

Did 'You' 'see' what fruit has been received for the _shrut_ _gnan_ ?

**Questioner** : Very wonderful.

**Dadashri** : It is clear internally, there are not many other desires and _shrutgnan_ evidences arose too.

**Questioner** : That is the main reason, is it not Dada? All the circumstances came together.

**Dadashri** : The worldly life interaction is difficult, is it not? When he was studying mechanical engineering, I understood then that this _vyavahar_ work as a mechanical engineer cannot be considered as good. He will also feel very good feeling, 'how well I fixed the machine!' So there is a hidden doer-ship within. Does one not become happy after fixing a machine?

**Questioner** : Yes he does.

**Dadashri** : Then if the machine does not work, he gets dejected. Such _garvaras_ (sweet juices of doer-ship) tasting is still there, is it not? So such subtle matters cannot come into his awareness. For him, if he remains in _satsang_ day and night, then his work will proceed. Akram Gnan means that it should be taken up with sincerity ( _aradhan_ ), systematically. Still this _jagruti_ (awakened awareness). On account of this awareness of the Self that remains, it can be called _upayoga_. 'We' call it _upayoga_. Now if that _upayoga_ is maintained when this work on the machine is being done, then His 'work' (for _moksha_ ) will be done. But machinery by nature is such, that it will not allow one to maintain _upayoga_. This is because the devotion starts with that which has no Self in it, it is inert ( _jada bhakti_ ).

**Questioner** : Even while eating, it is all _jadbhakti_ , is it not?

**Dadashri** : No. There are some people who can maintain _upayoga_ very well while eating. But ordinarily, a state of restlessness does happen and so one cannot readily maintain _upayoga_.

What happens if it takes two to three hours to fix a machine? The whole _jagruti_ (awakened awareness) will be lost. But that machine will not be repaired, if its _bhakti_ stops.

**Questioner** : One has to do the _bhakti_ (full devotion to concentration in repairing) at that time.

**Dadashri** : Its repairing will stop, if its bhakti stops. That is why 'we' do not give any _dhyan_ (attention), about counting money. You have to understand from what you have been told. If it takes two hours to count money, my _upayoga_ will be awash. I have not kept My _dhyan_ in this body for more than two or three minutes. The doctor tells me that I will heal quicker, if I paid attention to the body and took care of it. I tell him, 'What will become of 'Me', if I were to do that?' If I apply _dhyan_ (pay attention) wherever it is hurting, then it will heal faster. It will heal if _upayoga_ is applied there. But the balance gets withdrawn against the Self! It takes away (subtracted) right away! Even an _agnani's_ (one who does not have Self-realization) attention ( _dhyan_ ) remains in where he is hurting, that is why it heals. Medicines, etc. are all _nimits_ (apparent doers). An _agnani_ 's attention will not shift away from there.

**Questioner** : What is the result of the _upayoga_ getting used up? And what is the result of preserving _upayoga_?

**Dadashri** : When there is no _upayoga_ , then where is the question of it getting used up, or losing it? Those who repair machines, they maintain _upayoga_ , but it is _upayoga_ through the ego. And Your _upayoga_ is going to be there, at the cost of putting a veil over You. His ego (not Self-realized person) will be used, and Your ego (discharge ego) is used by bringing on the veil (over the Self); it is going to be used for both, is it not?

## One becomes entangled in the bushes

**Questioner** : Which are the danger places in various life situations where one's _upayoga_ can be broken? How can I prevent that from happening? Because there are many places where the _upayoga_ slips away.

**Dadashri** : No, it does not even slip away. If it were to slip away, then it would come back again when there is any 'burning' (suffering). And it also does not become _upayoga_ of the non-Self ( _para upayoga_ ). It keeps wandering within the shrubs of the _upayoga_ of the Self ( _swa upayoga_ ). _Upayoga_ of the non-Self will cause a 'burning' within, that does not happen. The partial entry into the shrubs of the _upayoga_ of the Self; is all due to past interferences ( _dakhal_ ). There is nothing but stickiness in the past and future interferences.

One will be pushed, feel a hit, if he is in _upayoga_ of the non-Self ( _para upayoga_ ). Here, One is not in _swa upayoga_ and does not go into _para upayoga_ ; that is how he becomes entangled in the middle.

**Questioner** : In the middle; what kind of a state is that?

**Dadashri** : It does not get accomplished satisfactorily and yet he cannot go forward dangling like this either. That is the half way state. There is only entanglements and entanglements. So the _upayoga_ keeps getting ruined in this.

## Illusory attachment for Television delays moksha

**Questioner** : When we watch T.V. for two to three hours a day, what is that called, Dada?

**Dadashri** : You cannot watch T.V. at all. When you watch T.V., your _upayoga_ will remain there only. You cannot have two simultaneous _upayogas_. And there can never be two _upayogas_ while seeing. There can be two _upayogas_ in listening; you can close your ears. You cannot watch T.V. at all.

**Questioner** : And we can't watch Indian movies either?

**Dadashri** : You cannot watch anything. T.V. destroys the energies of the eyes. The eyes become pulled, attracted and when the eyes are attracted, the whole body is also attracted, and therefore _upayoga_ cannot be maintained in anything else.

If you are not in a hurry to attain _moksha_ , then there is no problem in watching T.V. If you still want to spend another fifty to a hundred more life times, then there is no problem with watching T.V.

**Questioner** : Which is better, to remain the Knower-Seer while watching T.V. and let watching T.V. fade away on its own, or just stop watching it altogether?

**Dadashri** : There is no T.V. or other such things here in _shuddha upayoga_. If children watch T.V. it will ruin their eyes. And if you (Chandubhai) are watching, then You have to tell him off. Telling off means, You have to say, 'Chandubhai why are you wasting your time like this?'

**Questioner** : For children to gain knowledge, programs like 'Wild life', programs about nature, news etc., for that...

**Dadashri** : That is fine. Children will watch; you can show them, and then you should get up and start doing your other work. Settle them down.

There is no problem if there is no rush to attain _moksha_.

**Questioner** : What kind of karma is bound by playing cards, playing poker, watching T.V.?

**Dadashri** : It is all _agnan_ karma (karma of ignorane), what else? It is _darshan_ _mohaniya_ _karma_ \- right-belief deluding karma.

**Questioner** : It binds _darshan_ - _mohaniya_ - _karma_? The veils will keep on coming?

**Dadashri** : Gnan becomes veiled; the Gnan is all gone and _darshan_ _mohaniya_ comes in. The world has come into existence because of that.

## Only the one with upayoga can remain constantly with Dada

That is why 'we' say that only the one with _upayoga_ can remain constantly with 'us'. How can the one who lacks _upayoga_ ever live with 'us'? The one with _upayoga_ will get along with 'us' very well. Otherwise if a person were to come here once in a while, once a week, then he will reap great benefit. Because, he will be overcome with joy, no? And what would it be like for a man who has been starving for seven days, when he sits down to eat?

**Questioner** : Does our _upayoga_ wane because of the pleasant calmness ( _thandak_ ) we experience by being around Dada?

**Dadashri** : It is because of that pleasant calmness ( _thandak_ ), that the _upayoga_ does not remain, no?

**Questioner** : One will experience the _thandak_ only if he is in _upayoga_. Will he not?

**Dadashri** : No. It is not that he will experience the pleasant calmness only if He is in the _upayoga_ , it is not like that. This _thandak_ is experienced by being in the proximity of the Gnani Purush.

**Questioner** : So when he is experiencing _thandak_ , His awareness ( _jagruti_ ) becomes dull, is that right?

**Dadashri** : Then what else can happen? He will not make any progress. If the One who is very aware were to live with us, then there is no problem. Otherwise, he will benefit after a long time. External worldly acquisition ( _grahan_ ) stops. Any external difficulties will stop and here it gradually wears away. But it is also good if one gets the opportunity to stay with us. The external will not be ruined, will it? Even other kinds of misuses stop, right? Whatever is washed away in the presence of the Gnani Purush; that, which gets washed away on its own without _upayoga_ , is correct. And one day it will come into use as _shuddha upayoga_ , will it not?

**Questioner** : It will get washed in the presence of the Gnani Purush, no?

**Dadashri** : It will come into Your conduct some day. All of a sudden, that garbage will be gone by fifty-one percent. Then due to Your own energy, its' reins will come into Your hand. Then everything will move fast.

**Questioner** : What is the difference between that which gets washed off without _upayoga_ and that which gets washed off with _upayoga_?

**Dadashri** : A big difference. That which is washed off with _upayoga_ is completely pure, and that other will have to be washed again. It will be easy to wash, but what will it be like? There will not be a problem, you just have to dip it in soapy water and then rinse it off, because it has been washed before, has it not?

## This _shuddha_ upayoga is at the gross level

**Questioner** : Dada, when it is washed (cleared) with _upayoga_ , is it considered as natural ( _sahaj_ )?

**Dadashri** : Not _sahaj_. The _upayoga_ is through complete awareness.

**Questioner** : The exact _upayoga_ that I am to maintain; what is it like?

**Dadashri** : That is a completely different thing. This _sthool_ (gross) that has come about, it is a very good thing. Other people do not have even the gross _upayoga_.

**Questioner** : Does sthool _upayoga_ means to keep 'seeing' 'our' _prakruti_ , the mind-speech-body?

**Dadashri** : It is the _upayoga_ that 'You' have maintained through 'our' words; through the Agnas. It prevails because of the Agnas. That other _upayoga_ is of a very different kind.

**Questioner** : But Dada, only the Gnani Purush can have such an _upayoga_ , right?

**Dadashri** : Then, who else? This is not an easy thing. People cannot maintain _upayoga_ even at the gross level. Even the gross is so unreliable.

**Questioner** : Is doing _darshan_ of _Shuddhatma_ considered _sthool_ (gross) _upayoga_?

**Dadashri** : Then what else can You say You did? It is with Agna, is it not?

**Questioner** : So there is a dependency ( _avalamban_ ), Dada?

**Dadashri** : It is not a dependency, it is just a word. What else do you have? You get the benefit of words. However, what does the Self have to do with it? Has the Self been 'seen and known' through it? But You reap its fruit, so You experience bliss. So that proves that You have the conviction ( _pratiti_ ) of the Self; that it is definitely there.

_Sthool_ (gross) _upayoga_ is a very good thing. There are very few like you who go higher than that.

## Even then, it is _shuddha_ upayoga!

_Upayoga_ should remain pure ( _shuddha_ ) ; that 'this person is pure, I am pure, no one is the doer. I am not the doer...' 'You' should have such _shuddha_ _upayoga_. To believe someone as the doer, is the problem.

For the One who has attained this Akram Vignan, there is only discharge of karma without any charging ( _nirjara_ ) twenty-four hours. _Nirjara_ begins from the time one sits in the train at Vadodara (leaving for Ahmedabad). In that _nirjara_ , you can do any work that you want to. Just as a man sitting in a train can read or eat, he can do whatever he wants to, the train will still head towards Ahmedabad.

**Questioner** : Can any kind of work be done in _nirjara_ , like that?

**Dadashri** : Yes. That is how the worldly life interaction goes on and You have to remain the Knower-Seer, of 'what is 'Chandubhai's mind doing? What is the intellect ( _buddhi_ ) doing?' 'You' can remain _vitarag_ (free from attachment or abhorrence) if You remain in _shuddha_ _upayoga_.

**Questioner** : Sometimes thoughts arise in the mind when I am in _shuddha_ _upayoga_.

**Dadashri** : There is no problem with that. Let them come and go; there is no problem even if at times they take over, but You should not lose _shuddha_ _upayoga_.

**Questioner** : But the thoughts that arise, they just need to be 'seen', right? It is a problem only if I become engrossed with them.

**Dadashri** : No, it may not happen at the time of 'seeing'. There is _upayoga_ at the time of 'seeing', but it is possible at times that You do not get to 'see'. 'You' may become one with it even slightly, but that does not ruin anything. If the unfolding karma is very thick, then that will happen. It will also make You tumble, but it does not bind any karma.

Upayoga during samayik

**Questioner** : Whatever _samayik_ (Be the Self and 'see' the self for forty-eight minutes) I do or whatever thoughts arise; if 'I' 'see' that, what is the result?

**Dadashri** : _Shuddha_ _upayoga_ remains with that. 'Seeing' the thoughts is Your Knower-Seer nature. When you come into the nature of the Self, it is _shuddha_ _upayoga_. So, in that _samayik_ , if You 'see' those thoughts, then You are in _shuddha_ _upayoga_ for sure.

**Questioner** : Dada, what kind of _upayoga_ is there during _samayik_?

**Dadashri** : Even during _samayik_ , there is good _upayoga_ _jagruti_ (awareness of the Self). What else? We call that _upayoga_ , do we not?

**Questioner** : In exactness it is not _upayoga_ , is it Dada?

**Dadashri** : In exactness it cannot be considered _upayoga_. So, _shuddha_ _upayoga_ is very different.

**Questioner** : Dada, what kind of _upayoga_ is there for You?

**Dadashri** : That _upayoga_ is something very different. It is called _Atma_ _charitra_ (conduct in the realm of the Self). 'You' do not have that, but know that it prevails at a certain level; at Your level.

**Questioner** : What is that? Can you please tell us some of that?

**Dadashri** : The Self is in its exact form.

**Questioner** : He talked about what he experienced during that occasion. So what kind of a state remains for You?

**Dadashri** : Very high. It will never move. Nothing moves and the analysis continues. There is nothing like needing to know 'who is eating?' etc. There is every exactness there.

Say, if that man is sitting over there and you are sitting here. Once you see that man, you will know that he is sitting over there, will you not?

**Questioner** : Yes, I will know that.

**Dadashri** : After that you will not keep checking again and again to see whether he is sitting there or not, do you? 'Who is sitting there, and who is not'?

**Questioner** : I do not have to check that.

**Dadashri** : Therefore, 'I' am in my seat, and he is in his. Ambalal is in his seat, everything is in its own seat. There is no moving here and there; there is exactness. For You, that machinery has started. So who is the eater? Who is this? Who is that? The awareness ( _jagruti_ ) will show all that. Ahead You will need exactness, won't You? No such thoughts should arise at all. There is no jumping back and forth in the effect ( _parinam_ ).

## Singer, listener and the Knower, always separate

You sing but you do not listen, do you? Should you not listen? When one sings and listens to each and every word, then he is said to have come into Akram Vignan. The singer is separate, the listener is separate and the Knower is separate. The Knower knows that he has not heard such and such words properly. Hey you! It is interesting that you are going on singing all alone! If You do not keep it separate it will be a mixture!

All of You do this today: today read the _pados_ (hymns). All of you practice doing that today. Close your eyes, ' _Namo Arihantanum'_ , each letter should be read. ' _Namo Siddhanum, Namo Aayariyanum_...' Then ' _Namo Bhagwate Vasudevaya, Namaha Shivaya_ , Jai Sat Chit Anand.' Read all the way to here and then whatever mistakes were made; correct them the next time around. Try that today, and the Self will be present there. The reader at that time is the Self (awakened Self).

**Questioner** : The reader is the Self.

**Dadashri** : Yes, the reader. Try doing one _pad_ at a time, with eyes closed like this, ' _Namo Bhagwate Vasudevaya'_ , can You see that properly or not? Then You will 'see' every word. Can You see them?

**Questioneer** : Yes, Dada I can see.

**Dadashri** : When You enter within ; that is considered as _upayoga_ of _Shuddhatma_. It is not considered _dhyan_. For _upayoga_ , if You arrange to do something like this and read for an hour, it is more than enough. That is the greatest _upayoga_. 'We' are showing You what 'we' do ourselves. What 'we' used to do, 'we' are showing it all to You. 'You' have to crank the handle, do You not?

What is the Knower-Seer state that You currently remain in, like? You remain at the gross level. 'You' will have to go to the subtle level.

**Questioner** : The fingers write, the eyes see, and I can even 'see' You Dada; that is what happens.

**Dadashri** : That is a little more. But if you cannot 'see Dada', it is more than enough if You can 'see' the reading. It should read very clearly, pure words complete with all its inflexions. There is another way to 'see' Dada, but there should be no adulteration when reading like this. Maintain 'seeing' all this. Word by word with all the inflexions.

Whatever You speak, are You able to 'read' all that? Then You are considered to have spoken with _upayoga_ ( _upyogpurvak_ ).

**Questioner** : After attaining Gnan, if I want to do the _Navkar Mantra_ , how should I recite them?

**Dadashri** : 'You' are not to 'do' the _Navkar_. 'You' have to 'know' who is doing them and if they are not done properly, then You should look in the mirror and tell Chandubhai so. Otherwise there is no problem in doing the _Navkar_ , but remain as the Self during that time.

## Eventually it brings _shuddha_ upyog

Such karma will unfold for You, such as fasting for a day, eating one time a day etc. But You have to 'do' according to those unfolding karma effects. You do not have to forcefully bring them on.

Fast if it comes as the karma unfolds. And 'keep-be' in the _upayoga_ of _Shuddhatma_ the whole day. The Lord has said that if You do one fast with _upayoga_ , You will be blessed. Fasting without _upayoga_ , the Lord calls as _dhorlangan,_ the muzzle tied on cattle to prevent them from eating.

What happens when you over eat? That is exactly what happens, right? Does that happen to you too, when you eat too much _doodhpak_ (sweetened milk with nuts)?

**Questioner** : _Upayoga_ cannot be maintained properly. You had once said that if we talked while eating, it will not be possible to eat with _upayoga_ for sure.

**Dadashri** : How can you eat properly? Eating should be done with _upayoga_ , so You can know the ingredients in it?

**Questioner** : At that time You had said that, 'When you say, 'I am in _upayoga_ ', that is not considered _upayoga_ '. That is called your _laksha_ ( _awareness_ ). _Upayoga_ is a very high thing, which 'we' experience.'

**Dadashri** : _Upayoga_ is a very high thing. This is called _laksha_ (awareness). _Laksha_ means _jagruti_ (awakened awareness). Meaning, it is something that can bring about _upayoga_ (applied awareness); _shuddha_ _upayoga_. So the _jagruti_ is there, but it will bring _shuddha_ _upayoga_. When you are taking a bath and you have to move your hands back and forth, you have to do it like this and like that, then _upayoga_ will not remain. 'Our' _upayoga_ remains even when Niruben is giving 'us' a bath. I am able to remain in _upayoga_ when she is washing my feet. And what do people of this world do? If there is a nice breeze blowing, they become moved by it. It is just like that, the _upayoga_ gets lost.

**Questioner** : But when Niruben is bathing Dada, her _upayoga_ will be on what Niruben is doing and that she is giving a bath, right?

**Dadashri** : Her _upayoga_ remains good. That is helping her lot. Of course she will have good _upayoga_. Even if the analysis is not there, what I am saying is the _upayoga_ remains good as it is. Of course the _upayoga_ remains!

It is like this, it is for _shuddha_ _upayoga_ , that people made the discovery of washing and bathing idols ( _murtis_ ) of God. Do the Brahmins not do that where you live? That is _shubha_ (auspicious) _upayoga_. And when you bathe a real living idol ( _murti,_ the Gnani); it is called _shuddha_ _upayoga_. That other one is _shubha upayoga_.

**Questioner** : Dada, when Dada's speech is being recorded through writing, is there anything like _upayoga_ in it?

**Dadashri** : It is considered as _upayoga_ only! It is the beginning of _shuddha_ _upayoga_ ; it cannot be called as _shuddha_ _upayoga_. This _upayoga_ is _upayoga_ to bring one into _shuddha_ _upayoga_.

**Questioner** : So this _upayoga_ will bring about _shuddha_ _upayoga_.

**Dadashri** : Yes, it will. Just like when a person gets admitted in college and one day he will become a professor. So, to note down Dada's speech, is the best thing. It will become imprinted within You. That Gnan, which becomes imprinted, will never go away. It will present whenever You have the need for it. If you try to remember now, you may not remember it, but it will be present when needed, that this is what Dada had said.

## This is how upayoga is lost when eating

**Questioner** : You are constantly is _samadhi_ (bliss of the Self), You are in only _upayoga_ , are You not?

**Dadashri** : The fruit of _upayoga_ is _samadhi_. So there is no need to remain in _samadhi_. Just remain in _upayoga_. If You remain in _upayoga_ , then the fruit of it is _samadhi_. _Samadhi_ is the fruit.

**Questioner** : Yes, now when You were in _upayoga_ and you had a desire to eat _shingoda_ (lotus root), was is while remaining in _upayoga_?

**Dadashri** : No. The _upayoga_ stopped there.

**Questioner** : So at that moment, was the desire to eat _shingoda_ not while remaining in _upayoga_?

**Dadashri** : No, no. That _upayoga_ stopped.

**Questioner** : _Upayoga_ stopped, how is that possible? Dada's _upayoga_ is always there, is it not?

**Dadashri** : There cannot be two _upayoga_. Two _upayoga_ cannot be maintained at a time. In some events it can be and in some it cannot be, but in the case of _shingoda_ , _upayoga_ did not remain for me.

**Questioner** : So does that mean that whenever such a desire arises, the _upayoga_ stops?

**Dadashri** : No, it is not even like that. The desire is a different thing and _upayoga_ is a different thing. Many times, the _upayoga_ does not stop even when there is a desire. It all depends on what kind of internal force there is.

**Questioner** : When you are eating, certain things are in front of you, and you feel I want to take this, I want to take that, then...

**Dadashri** : And he can remain in _upayoga_ and eat. But if it is something that he really likes, then _upayoga_ is missed. When he decided to eat _shingoda_ , the dear fellow lost the _upayoga_.

**Questioner** : So this is talking about something that is liked very much.

**Dadashri** : No, not that which is likable. It is slightly liked and that is why he (Dada) got up. Otherwise there was no hunger. If there was hunger, then 'we' can know that 'the dear fellow got up because of hunger'. So it can be said that _upayoga_ remained in that situation. This here was ordinary.

**Questioner** : If I am are eating and I am also also talking with someone...

**Dadashri** : _Upayoga_ cannot be maintained at that time; how can _upayoga_ remain?

## This is how upayoga is maintained while eating

What is the meaning of _upayoga_? It is to be in awareness of 'Who is eating?' 'How is the eater eating?' 'What is he rushing through?' 'Which taste he is enjoying the most?' 'What are the things he is avoiding and what are the things he is eating?' 'What is the exact taste like?' He maintains the _upayoga_ like that. One should eat with _upayoga_. I have not seen anyone eat with _upayoga_. They eat fast like a machine. Eating and drinking should all be done with _upayoga_. There is no problem if it does not happen, but if this awareness ( _jagruti_ ) comes, then it is of use. 'We' do not tell you to correct the mistake. Just make sure that You keep awareness to not do it again. Even then the mistakes will happen again. So again, still maintain the awareness that 'it does not happen the way Dada has said it should'. Even then it is considered as _jagruti_. Here it is all engrossment ( _tanmayakar_ ). 'We' never talk while eating. The entire _upayoga_ goes away if talking is done.

**Questioner** : Ours goes into the talking.

**Dadashri** : Yes. But it is the same. _Upayoga_ goes away in the wrong direction for people. Do You understand now why You are not able to eat with _upayoga_?

_Upayoga_ means, awareness of 'who am I?' 'Who is the one eating?' 'What does the eater have interest in?' If the eater does not like the taste, You have to tell him 'this it is good'. 'You' have to 'know' all that, with _upayoga_. But so that you can remember this much, we tell You that it is more than enough if you remember something. Even if you say, 'It does not happen the way Dada says it should be'; it is more than enough.

**Questioner** : But Dada, if I have a guest and he is talking to me while we are eating, I have to converse with him.

**Dadashri** : If he tries to talk, tell him, 'Why don't we leisurely discuss it later?

**Questioner** : If we are sitting across each other and the other person keeps talking, then I have to talk to him.

**Dadashri** : Tell him, 'why don't you eat first. What is the hurry? Later we can talk at leisure'. Has awareness remained any day while eating? But that awareness does not remain. The awareness will not come for that which begins wrongly. Then the _upayoga_ will not become still.

**Questioner** : But that _upayoga_ should remain in every activity; the _shuddha_ _upayoga_ , right?

**Dadashri** : What I am saying is that it must remain in certain activity. Alas, in activity as big as eating, it should remain. The _upayoga_ does not remain, and chit has become weak. Alas! It cannot be maintained in everything, but _upayoga_ must remain while eating. Then, while talking, one must speak with _upayoga_ only.

**Questioner** : If while eating, trying to speak something, the _upayoga_ is lost. Now, if One does not have such understanding, then he just remains in the belief that 'I am staying properly in Gnan; I remain in awareness'. But one does not realize these internal mistakes.

**Dadashri** : Lots of mistakes. Many mistakes will happen. Awareness will give You awareness, but there are so many mistakes, are there not? So that is why 'we' keep on talking about it. The awareness will go there if You 'know' ( _khabar padi_ ) the mistake. Until the mistake is _'_ known', there is nothing but darkness. That is why 'we' caution You repeatedly; so that You can 'catch' your mistake from that and You can remain alert.

## Upayoga over upayoga

The first _upayoga_ is _shuddha_ _upayoga_. That _upayoga_ means 'seeing' the Self as as pure, to 'see' others as pure, to remain in the Agnas; that is all _shuddha_ _upayoga_. And there is _upayoga_ over that _shuddha_ _upayoga_ to 'see' how much of _shuddha_ _upayoga_ is being maintained. That is called _keval Gnan_ (absolute Knowledge) and that other is called _shuddha_ _upayoga_. _Upayoga_ in _upayoga_ is _keval Gnan_.

_Shuddha_ _upayoga_ can be considered _Gnan_ - _swaroop_ (the Knower state) and _upayoga_ in _upayoga_ can be considered _vignan_ - _swaroop_ (The Science that is the Self); it is _keval Gnan-swaroop_ (absolute Knowledge state). Awareness ( _jagruti_ ) over awareness of _shuddha_ _upayoga_ is awareness of _keval Gnan_ , that is the ultimate awareness.

The Gnani's awareness is called _shuddha_ _upayoga_ , and awareness over that is considered _upayoga_ of _keval Gnan_. For 'us' awareness over awareness prevails, but not as much as that of the Tirthanakaras.

## On the path of the Shuddha Upayoga as shown by Tirthankaras..

Lord Mahavir remained constantly in _shuddha_ _upayoga_ twenty-four hours. Our _mahatma_ 's _shuddha_ _upayoga_ is like sunshine. It will come for a while and then go away. And the worldly people have neither seen nor heard of _shuddha_ _upayoga_. Only those whom 'we' have given Gnan to; they have _shuddha_ _upayoga_ , whereas others have not even seen _shuddha_ _upayoga_ , even if one is a _sadhu_ (ascetic) or an _acharya_ (spiritual master). _Shuddha_ _upayoga_ arises only after attaining Gnan. Only the Gnani Purush alone has it. In the _kramic_ path, one has _shuddha_ _upayoga_ the day he attains complete Gnan. Otherwise, even their Gnanis have _shuddha_ _upayoga_ for a short while but it will not prevail. This is because for _shuddha_ _upayoga_ , one needs to 'Know' the Self completely. When is One considered to have completely 'Known' the Self? When the ego goes completely and One becomes the Self completely; that is called 'Known' the Self. Whatever the amount of ego remains, that much of the Self is not 'Known'. Even the Gnani's of the _kramic_ path have ego. This is Lord Mahavir's _shuddha_ _upayoga_ , twenty-four Tirthankaras' _shuddha_ _upayoga_. Once this much is understood, there is no need to understand it again.

## Constant Shuddha Upayoga itself is keval Gnan

The Gnan that I have given to You has manifested as _darshan_ (Understanding, Vision) in You. Now, as You sit with 'us' Your Gnan will increase in proportion and _shuddha_ _upayoga_ will arise. Whatever _shuddha_ _upayoga_ arises; that much Gnan is there. When complete _shuddha_ _upayoga_ prevails constantly; that is called _keval Gnan_. Complete _shuddha_ _upayoga_ is called _keval Gnan_ of 360 degrees and the presence of _laksha_ (awareness) of _Shuddhatma_ is considered 10-15% _keval Gnan_. From _shuddha_ _upayoga_ , a seed for _keval Gnan_ is sown for Him. A fraction _keval Gnan_ has arisen. It will take time for it to become complete; it depends upon each individual's _purushartha_ (progressing as the Self, beginning with five Agnas). When One remains in Our Agnas; it is called complete _shuddha_ _upayoga_. These Agnas are not difficult.

**Questioner** : And in a _keval Gnani_ all the veils over every location ( _pradesh_ ) are gone, is that right?

**Dadashri** : All of them, they are all open! But 'He' does not 'See' any thing without a reason otherwise the _upayoga_ will be spoiled, so He 'sees' only the pure ( _shuddha_ ) everywhere.

# [4] Experience-Awareness-Conviction

## Attainment of constant conviction

How long does _laksha,_ awareness as the Self, remain with You?

**Questioner:** It remains all the time.

**Dadashri:** It will remain constantly. The one, who has kept more familiarity with 'Me', will have constant awareness. That is because this is the experiential ( _anubhav_ ) knowledge of the Self. The _laksha,_ awareness as the Self, of 'I am the Self', is established, so it will remain continuously.

**Questioner:** But it does not remain constant when I am busy at the office.

**Dadashri:** When you are busy in work then awareness (I am the Self) ( _laksha_ ) does not remain, but at that time it is in _pratiti,_ conviction!

**Questioner:** Gnan does not prevail and present when a situation arises, but it presents later, so then what should I understand? Is it deficiency in the understanding ( _samaj_ ), weakness in _purushartha -_ remaining in Agna, or absence of _jagruti -_ awakened awareness?

**Dadashri:** There is no absence of awareness ( _jagruti_ ), weakness of _purushartha_ or deficiency in understanding in this. The only thing is that at that time, Gnan will not remain present. Say for instance if you are doing a transaction of an account with someone, at that time _laksha,_ the awareness as the Self, will never stay. What remains at that time?

**Questioner:** At that time the entire _dyhan_ , attention, will remain completely in that transaction only.

**Dadashri:** At that time _laksha,_ awareness will not remain so you will feel that you became one with the non-Self within; however _pratiti,_ the conviction of 'I am Shuddhatma', does not leave. _Pratiti_ will remain continuously for sure.

**Questioner:** So when that task is over, I return to the original _swaroop,_ state of the Self?

**Dadashri:** There is a constant link of _pratiti,_ conviction, that is why You return to the original state of the Self, otherwise you will not. It is a continuous link, it is continuous _pratiti,_ conviction, and therefore it is called _kshayak_ _samkit,_ eternal right vision, 'I am the Self'. [Note: _Kshayak_ _samkit_ state is where the 'log of _kashayas_ ' has burnt down completely and turned to ashes. _Kshayopsham_ _samkit_ state is where it is covered in ashes but underneath it is still smoldering; a gust of wind can set it ablaze again. In _upsham_ _samkit_ it is at the smoldering stage]. Because of this continuous conviction, once the interaction with the other person is over, you return to 'I am _Shuddhatma_ ' again, You become the Self and that verily is _laksha_. Having returned to _laksha,_ if one happens to run into _ekant,_ a state or situation where there is no _kashaya_ , then _anubhav_ \- experience may come too. As one 'tastes' the _anubhav rasa,_ juice of experience, _Atma_ _swabhav anubhav,_ the experience of the natural state of the Self, will prevail, that _laksha_ , awareness, will prevail and that _pratiti_ , conviction will prevail. One does not go down from these three steps. This is with continuous indelible conviction. In the _kramic_ path, _pratiti,_ conviction of 'I am the _Shuddhatma_ ' would be _kshayopsham,_ changing like a log on fire. For one moment the _pratiti_ will be blazing strong and then at another time, it will be gone. In a moment it may have been _upsham,_ smoldering, and in a moment it would have been _kshaya,_ annihilated. And this _pratiti_ in the Akram path is _kshayak_ _pratiti,_ continuous indelible conviction. _Pratiti_ will not leave at any moment of the day. The continuous conviction of, 'I am _Shuddhatma_ ', will not leave at any time your entire life. And before Gnan, the _pratiti_ of 'I am Chandubhai' was there twenty-four hours. That conviction would simply not leave. Did you have the conviction of 'I am Chandubhai' twenty-four hours, before?

**Questioner:** Yes, before it was only like that.

**Dadashri:** Continuously, all twenty-four hours? Even for a little while, was there ever any conviction of, 'I am the _Shuddhatma_?'

**Questioner:** No, no. 'I am a general manager' and 'I am this' and 'I am that', all this used to remain within.

**Dadashri:** That _pratiti_ is the wrong belief; it is called _mithyatva_. And this _pratiti_ is called right belief; it is called _samyaktva or_ _samyak_ _darshan_ right vision. Do You, the Self, see, now that this _samyak_ _darshan_ has been established and in addition it is _kshayak,_ eternal?

**Questioner:** In a way, from within, I do have the exact understanding that I am indeed separate from within, it appears proper in understanding but sometimes it feels as if it gets mixed up. _Gp277_

**Dadashri:** No, not like that. If someone asks you, 'are you Chandubhai or _Shuddhatma_?' then what will you say?

**Questioner:** _Shuddhatma_. I do not have any doubt about that at all.

**Dadashri:** Then you have to say only that. Other than that You do not have to be concerned with whether it stays or not. You do not have to see any such thing at all. You have to 'see' only that which is in Your conviction.

**Questioner:** With reference to _pratiti_ , having met Dada, everything has become solid and indelible.

**Dadashri:** That is all, you have to 'see' that much only. You do not need to see any other things at all. It is a continuous link of conviction that is why the _laksha,_ awareness, that never leaves, has been established, otherwise you cannot maintain _laksha_. _Laksha_ will not establish at all. When you talk to someone, at that time you will lose the awareness but once the conversation is over, the awareness returns.

This continuous link of conviction, _kshayak_ _samkit,_ permanent conviction of 'I am _Shuddhatma_ '; continuous link of the right belief, _kshayak_ _samyak_ _darshan,_ establishment of permanent right vision, is one attribute out of eight attributes of the _siddha_ Bhagwan, absolute liberated Self. So a 1/8th state of the _siddha_ arises here.

So conviction should be established. When the conviction of 'Who I am,' becomes established then You, the Self, become free. _Pratiti_ , conviction, means you got the visa (Gnan Vidhi ) for moksha and then later when you get the ticket (the five Agna) the solution is attained. If there is no ticket then it is trouble, if you do not have a visa then also there is trouble. When you get both and the date is confirmed, then You will leave. If on that date the task is not accomplished then you have to arrange for another day. It proceeds when these two, the visa and the ticket are there.

## Conviction of what you know will prevail

' _Tey Gnaney kariney janyoon rey, teni vartey chhe shuddha pratiti'_

Shrimad Rajchandra

'What is known through Gnan, its pure conviction is the state that prevails.'

The conviction of what you come to know through knowledge will prevail in you. That the Lord has called as _darshan_ , vision or understanding. If I tell you to write down a list of five or seven or ten things that will help you with your dysentery, that is considered as me giving you _gnan_ , knowledge. Knowledge of what? Of how to heal dysentery. Just as there is knowledge for liberation ( _moksha_ ), there can also be knowledge for healing dysentery, no? Now when you take that medicine and it reduces the dysentery, your conviction of it being a good medicine will increase. Conviction of 'this medicine is good for me' is established. In the same token the conviction, 'I am the Self,' will continue to increase. As you gain the experience, your conviction will begin to become established. And only after the conviction becomes solid-unshakable, can your work be done but not otherwise. The conviction has to become unshakable. For You the conviction ( _pratiti_ ) has become unshakable.

The conviction has become established in one place. Now, you have that conviction but then something contrary arises. You have become convinced that your dysentery has healed but now there is a little bleeding. So after the conviction becomes established, things of contrary nature may arise but your conviction will not leave its place. There is no departure from the place that has been established. For you the conviction has been established; your conviction sits in its main location. Now if someone comes along and he says negative things to you, he teaches you the wrong things, then there will be a little pressure on your conviction, it may even bend or flex a little, but it will not leave its place.

## The experience will never be forgotten

**Questioner:** I understand that 'I am _Shuddhatma_ ' however this awareness ( _bhan_ ) does not remain.

**Dadashri** : Let me explain to You what _bhan_ , awareness is. If someone is smoking a cigarette, his child may try to touch it. Now when will this 'disease' of this child, (of wanting to touch the cigarette) go away? If someone is smoking, he stretches out his arm like this and tries to touch it. So when he does that, if we just take his hand and make him touch the cigarette, we let it remain for a while and he will get a burn. Thereafter he will not forget that experience ( _anubhav_ ) for the rest of his life. The moment he sees the red glow of a burning cigarette, he will run away from there, he sees the red glow and he runs. This is called experience. This is the kind of experience of the Self that we have given to You.

We give You the experience of the Atma, without burning you. In this world you will have to gain experience of things through getting 'burnt' but this experience of the Self is eternal bliss. Elsewhere you have to keep getting burnt. The minute You sit with 'us', the bliss arises. The awareness ( _bhan_ ) of the pure Self constantly prevails for sure, what more do You want?

For You, this Gnan is constantly present. Even when you are in court, the awareness of 'I am _Shuddhatma_ ' constantly remains. The awareness can never prevail without the annihilation of your demerit _karma_ ( _paap_ ). Otherwise if you were told just one word, you would not remember it the next day. So this is not something you need to remember.

## The difference between faith and conviction

**Questioner:** When we say that faith ( _shraddha_ ) is established, is that the same as conviction ( _pratiti_ )? What is the meaning of _pratiti_ , conviction? _Shraddha,_ faith?

**Dadashri** :Faith is called all the different stages and conviction is an exact location. Conviction means that your entire belief has changed one hundred percent and that 'I am definitely _Shuddhatma_ ' has become an established fact. Whereas the established faith of 'I am _Shuddhatma_ ' can also break but conviction will never break. Faith can turn around, it can change but conviction will not change.

Conviction means say we take a stick and bury it half way in the ground. Now if a lot of pressure is applied to the stick, it many flex and bend a little, but it will not leave its location. The conviction of 'I am _Shuddhatma_ ' will never go away.

And what is the meaning of _gaadha_ _pratiti_ , unshakable conviction? It will bend a little but not a lot even when there is a lot of pressure on it. When it bends, people will say, 'there it goes...it is going to go...' but when it does not budge from its place, that is unshakable conviction – _gaadha pratiti._

Experience, awareness and conviction ( _anubhav, laksha_ and _pratiti_ respectively). Conviction ( _pratiti_ ) is the foundation pole. After it is established, awareness ( _laksha_ ) will arise, then 'I am _Shuddhatma_ ' will constantly prevail in Your awareness ( _laksha_ ) Then whenever there a little respite and You remain as the knower-seer ( _gnata-drashta_ ) for a little while; that is the experience ( _anubhav_ ). Now, You are not to be the 'knower-seer' of what is on the outside; you have to be the 'knower-seer' of only this _prakruti_ , the relative-self, the non-Self complex. You are to see what kind of madness this _prakruti_ is doing!

**Questioner:** So I have to continue to see only Chandubhai?

**Dadashri** : You have to see only him. You have to see how wise or how crazy he is behaving. If he is behaving crazily, You should not get angry with him and if he is behaving wisely, you should not have attachment ( _raag_ ) towards him. You should remain _vitarag_ , free from attachment or aversion. If he is behaving crazy, he is behaving that way, what does that have to do with You? The past relationships have become separate from the _prakruti_. How long were you responsible for the _prakruti_? It was until you attained the conviction of 'I am _Shuddhatma_ '. Thereafter You, the Self, are no longer responsible.

## Conviction of and for the Self only

Here in the path of Akram, the conviction of 'I am _Shuddhatma_ ' becomes indelibly established the day after the Gnan Vidhi. Does that conviction not establish the next day?

**Questioner:** Yes, it does become established.

**Dadashri:** Then what more do You need? There is nothing else in this world that can establish the conviction of the Self the very next day.

**Questioner:** Dada, someone may attain this _pratiti,_ conviction, just by reading the scriptures too, no?

**Dadashri:** No. That is not called _pratiti._

**Questioner:** Dada's _Aptavani_ (the words of Gnani Purush Dadashri of Akram Vignan) and Dada's _Aptasutra,_ (compilation of aphorisms of Gnani Purush Dadashri) are such that even if one has not met Dadashri, he will feel as if he has attained the conviction.

**Dadashri:** That conviction is the conviction of the intellect ( _buddhi_ ); it is not called this original conviction. That will not help at all. There is no telling when it will change. It gives one certificate now but after two hours it will give another certificate. _Pratiti_ means that which will not change again, that is called _pratiti_ , conviction. This conviction is established within You. _Pratiti_ is that which will not leave its place. Thereafter, again when you get so much beating, it, _pratiti,_ may sway this way, sway that way (like bamboo in strong winds), but it will not leave its place.

'We' have given that same conviction to You. No matter how much pressure arises from the worldly life, you may get extreme horrific pressures, even a hangman's noose in front of you will not make Your conviction of 'I am pure Self,' leave. This conviction is a _sanatan vastu,_ eternal thing. This thing is not like _shraddha,_ faith; faith might leave tomorrow morning. Conviction will never leave. _Khatari_ , assertion or assurance, may shift away, but conviction will not shift.

_Prati_ \+ _iti_ , the word ' _iti'_ applies to the Atma, the Self. Just as they say ' _neti_ ', not that, not this, ' _na_ - _iti_ ' ( _na_ – not, no; _iti_ – this), _na_ - _iti_ ; similarly _iti_ applies to Atma, the Self. _Pratiti_ means 'this is that—I am That', the conviction. Except for Atma, the Self, this word _pratiti_ cannot be spoken for anything else or at other place in the world. And _pratiti_ never leaves once established. Even if someone were to kill you, it will never leave. He, the one who has taken Gnan, may even say, 'I do not have any faith in you at all'; he may say this or that. One may speak crazy or emotionally charged words; even then the established _pratiti_ will not leave. This is _kshayak_ _pratiti,_ indelible conviction. It is no ordinary thing! It is the indelible conviction ( _kshayak_ _pratiti_ ) _,_ that Lord Krishna had attained! Once stuck, it is stuck (established)! Why is it that after just a couple of hours here, the _mahatma,_ one who has received Gnan, does not leave 'My' _sang,_ company of the Gnani? There has not been any extended familiarity with me; it is all due to the _prataap_ of _pratiti,_ expressing illuminating energy of the conviction. The poor fellow may even become hostile with me if his karma unfolds in that manner. I do understand that, but his _pratiti_ will never leave.

**Questioner:** So if one has a very firm _khatari,_ assurance, is that called _pratiti,_ conviction?

**Dadashri:** Assurance means promise. How long can it take to break a promise? This is a _pratiti,_ conviction! And which _pratiti_ have 'we' placed You in? Not only in _pratiti,_ but 'we' have established 'You' in _gaadha_ _pratiti,_ intense conviction. Lord Tirthankaras were in _avagaadha_ _pratiti,_ absolute conviction, totally immersed in the state of the Self.

'We' have _avagaadha_ _pratiti,_ absolute conviction. Well, 'we' are not a Tirthankara but 'we' have _avagaadha_ _pratiti_. 'We' have established You in _gaadha,_ intense, conviction. And in the _kramic path,_ the traditional step-by-step path to Self-realization, one makes progress through conviction of words, in this Akram path the conviction is through experience. Thereafter all the attributes manifest, one can see the signs of _kshama -_ forgiveness, _namrata_ \- humility, _saradata -_ straightforwardness, and _santosh -_ satisfaction. All the attributes would be evident. What is the sign of establishment of this _pratiti_? The answer is that these attributes will be evident. Even if someone were to abuse you intensely and you become upset, finally, you will forgive him. 'You' are not the Chandubhai that you were before, are you?

**Questioner:** It has changed a lot.

**Dadashri:** It is so because the conviction has been established. Humility also would be evident to You, and before you were not humble, the egoistic tendency ( _akkadaai_ ) of the egoist ( _akkada_ ) has somehow decreased! The _saradata,_ straightforwardness, existed within, but it takes a good man to take you there. Then you did not have _santosh,_ satisfaction, now at least some satisfaction has arisen, has it not? Some _santosh_ has arisen, no? If you say that it is under the control of _vyavasthit_ , then it is called satisfaction and if you say 'I am the doer', then there will be dissatisfaction.

## Incredible attainment in just one hour

I asked this lawyer what he had attained in one hour. What is the essence behind this? So he replied there is a separation between the two. I told him, you have seen that the Soul and the body have become separate, whereas these people (on the _kramik_ path) are still looking for conviction ( _pratiti_ ); it would be enough even if one were to get even a slight conviction. The conviction of 'I am separate' is of tremendous benefit. And for You, You have experienced that You have become separate.

**Questioner** : Even if there were no response from me towards this Gnan; this conviction from within does not go. That is the most amazing thing.

**Dadashri** : It will not go. This is the most wondrous thing. This is something that one cannot find anywhere in the world and the Self is attained in just two hours. Otherwise are people who have to work for a living ever likely to attain the Self?

## The Gnani is constantly in the state of experience

This Gnan that 'we' give You and the three steps along with it; no one will step down to the fourth step from it. No matter how much you fight with someone, when you are fighting with someone, even then we know that this Gnan will not go away. Someone may say 'your Mr. so and so is fighting with someone'. After he is done with the fighting, he will become aware again. When he is figting, even the one whois fighting is aware that 'this is wrong' – such is our Gnan. It will make one think, 'Why does this liability arise again?' That is precisely why I (the Gnani Purush) do not have to scold anyone otherwise if I have to scold everyone, I would be exhausted. The Gnan that I have given You is such that even if You are quarrelling and fighting, even then You know that the conviction is not going to go away. The link of conviction is constantly there everywhere till the end, for the entire life. So then where can it go? If you step down from the conviction, then illusion ( _mithyatva_ – belief of 'I am Chandubhai') will arise again, but You will not go down from the conviction, such is this Gnan.

You have to understand this completely, for this one life. This is the gathering of the Gnani Purush; that is when You have to understand the facts. When you want to learn detailed accounting, then it may take six months, twelve months, two years, or even five years, no matter how difficult it is. Here it has been made simple, absolutely simple. You don't have to do anything – that is how simple it has been made, but now what can we do if one does not know how to take the benefit of it? Even then, there will be no damage.

## The stage of mahatmas is eternal right vision

**Questioner:** So Dada, at what stage should these mahatmas be considered to be in? Should they be considered in all the three: experience, awareness and conviction ( _anubhav, laksha_ and _pratiti_ respectively)?

**Dadashri:** They don't go below; they do not slip below these three. That is our Akram Vignan. What did Shrimad Rajchandra call this? He called this _parmartha_ _samkit_ , the absolute right vision. He called it _kshayak_ _samkit,_ eternal right vision, never to return in the realm of the non-Self.

Krupadudev said in Atma Siddhi Shahtra (his book of 142 verse treatise of the path of liberation), that:

" _vartey nija swabhav nu anubhav, laksha pratit"_

So, for you all, there remains a conviction ( _pratiti_ ) of the Self, in your awareness ( _laksha_ ) prevails the Self, and your experience ( _anubhav_ ) is that which alerts you within. You are in all these three states.

" _vruti vahey nija bhaav ma, parmathey samkit_ " _Vrutti_ (tendencies of the _chit_ )) that used to roam outside, for infinite lifetimes, wanting to do this and do that, are now flowing home to the Self — _nij_ _swabhav_. Where do the tendencies of someone your age go? 'I will go to the Fort area and do this and do that, there is some money on hand so I will do something; do this business or do that business.' All that has stopped now and these _vruttis_ , the tendencies of the _chit_ , to wander out are now reverting home to the Self. Now they don't go out, they all return. On the contrary, those that have gone out, return. Do they return in your case or not? If they don't return, then it will bother you, and if there are worries or suffering, then realize that they have not quite returned. The tendencies of _chit_ (the inner component of knowledge and vision) return to the Self. They were going out to wander; now, there is no wandering. All those _chit-vruttis_ (tendencies of the _chit_ ) start returning. Just as the cows come home in the evening, they too come home to the Self. The animals go out in the morning and return home in the evening, similarly, the _chit vruttis_ that were wandering because of ignorance, now stop wandering because of Gnan, the knowledge of the Self. There is no _moksha_ , liberation, like the one where the entire world is forgotten. When they are free, the tendencies go out to wander around; go to the sister's house, go here, go there, go wandering around. Now, if the tendencies are free they don't wander around, and even if they go out, they return home.

**Questioner:** So once the tendencies return to the Self, they don't go out at all?

**Dadashri:** No. They go out and return; go out and come back in. That is what goes on.

**Questioner:** But they come back in to the Self?

**Dadashri:** For the Tirthankaras, they do not leave at all. We all can reach the stage, wherein they go in and out.

**Questioner:** Based on this knowledge received from Dadashri, no matter how much the tendencies go out, they always come back into the Self, do they not?

**Dadashri:** They come back and then they go out again. They do return, but they stay here close within the boundaries of the Self. If they go out to your business, they come back.

Once the _jagruti,_ awakened awareness of the Self, is there, there is nothing else. This _jagruti_ along with just this simple flash of the memory of Dadaji's face means that one has entered the Self again. The moment Dada's face comes in the memory; it reverts back into the Self again.

Why do tendencies wander outside? They were wandering out in search of pleasure ( _sukha_ ). They wander here and there in search for pleasure. They continue to search for pleasure, which they do not find anywhere. And here it is readily found, in the form of unending bliss, directly experienced, so then why would they wander out?

The rule in everything is that, first you have the conviction that, 'this is correct'. It will not be seen in the conduct ( _vartan_ ). A long time after the conviction sets in, it manifests in conduct. When one is studying, first there is conviction, then it gradually comes into experience and only after that it expresses in one's conduct. _Moksha_ (liberation) means _samyak gnan -_ right knowledge, _samyak darshan -_ right vision, and _samyak charitra -_ right conduct. The whole world is in _mithya gnan-darshan-charitra,_ wrong knowledge-vision-conduct.

## After Gnan, awareness and conviction

When we give Gnan, at that time, many _karma_ are destroyed. Those _karma_ that are an obstacle to You becoming the Self, _karma_ that are obstacle to Your awareness; all those _karma_ are destroyed. The obstacles for awareness break and You become established in the awareness of the pure Self ( _Shuddhatma_ ). This awareness ( _laksha_ ) is an experience ( _anubhav_ ) of one kind.

Now, the conviction ( _pratiti_ ) remains for sure, but then as much of your _jagruti_ , awakened awareness prevails; your _laksha_ , constant awareness which seemingly shifts, will remain. But Your _laksha_ will remain dependent upon your awakened awareness ( _jagruti_ ). That is dependent upon your spiritual stock ( _upadaan_ ). What is _laksha_? The answer is, when you are writing a check or doing any other work, that _laksha_ will not remain.' The Lord does not consider that as a wrong doing; he does not hold you liable for this. But once your work is finished; when you have no work, the _laksha_ , awareness, 'returns.' Is that possible?

**Questioner** : Yes, it remains. Here, by _upadaan_ , do we mean one's qualifications?

**Dadashri** : Yes. _Upadaan_ means in your non-Self-realized ( _mithyatva_ ) state whatever you memorized and retained, and did, it does not go to waste; that effort is not made in vain. It can hurt you but it can also benefit you. _Upadaan_ will arise, for sure, no? So that is a qualification. When one's qualification is greater, his _laksha_ , awareness, will be greater. But even if one's qualification is lesser, the conviction _pratiti_ will not leave for sure.

**Questioner** : **'** I am _Shuddhatma_ ', remains in my awareness – _laksha_.

**Dadashri** : In the _kramic_ path, it prevails in one's _laksha_ , awareness, whereas for us, it prevails in our _khyal_ , that which constantly remains in the background of our awareness.

**Questioner** : Can you please explain the difference between _laksha_ and _khyal_?

**Dadashri** : _Laksha_ , awareness, is nailed down in one place and _khyal_ can be anywhere. Because in the _kramic_ path, with the attainment of _kshaiopsham_ _atma,_ realization of the Self which waxes and wanes, _laksha_ , awareness, can dissaper in no time. _Laksha_ means it can be in only one place and having attained the _kshayak_ _atma,_ eternal realization of the Self; it remains in your _khyal_ , in your awareness. Now, does the _Shuddhatma_ remain in your awareness? That 'I am _Shuddhatma_?'

**Questioner** : In bits and pieces it remains in my _khyal_.

**Dadashri** : Yes, in bits and pieces. Once your work is done it comes in Your _khyal_ , your general awareness, right? When you are working in the court, does it remain in your _khyal_?

**Questioner** : When I am speaking, the _khyal_ does not remain but it does when I am listening.

**Dadashri** : For many, even if they are talking, the _khyal_ remains. The _khyal_ remains in whatever work they do. The prevalence of the _khyal_ , awareness, of 'I am _Shuddhatma_ ' is why 'I am _Shuddhatma_ ' remains in our _dhyan_ , natural meditation, and that verily is _shukladhyan_. No one can have the meditation of 'I am _Shuddhatma_ '.

As this meditation remains, one constantly tastes the experience ( _anubhav_ ) for sure. The taste of the experience just keeps on coming. As it remains increasingly in one's _khyal_ , awareness, the _anubhav_ , experience, increasingly arises, and this remains in one's _khyal_. There is a constant experience of the Self, for sure. The timing of the _pratiti_ matches the timing of the _anubhav._ Without the experience, conviction can never become established.

## Gnanis do not have to chant

If the _laksha,_ awareness, is not present, the _pratiti,_ conviction, is always present. It is because the _pratiti_ is constantly there that _laksha_ returns, otherwise it would never come. Once it is lost, you have to recall it. Here it returns on its own. Sometimes when you wake up in the middle of the night, the awareness, 'I am _Shuddhatma_ ' comes, does it not? Yes. Therefore it has become complete. Now there is a need for You to understand this Vignan. You have to understand each and every word.

**Questioner** : Is it good to have _ratan_ , constant chant, of 'I am _Shuddhatma_ '?

**Dadashri** : No, it should not be like that. _Ratan_ , constant repetition, is to be done in the worldly life state; in the state of one being a _sadhak_ , a seeker. Here he has become the _Paramatma_ , the absolute Self. Here, after 'we' give you Gnan, you become _Paramatma_ , but through conviction ( _pratiti_ )! The conviction has become established now. You are now certain that 'I am not Chandubhai but I am _Shuddhatma_ '. This conviction has become established and so has the awareness, _laksha_. _Laksha_ means that, 'I am _Shuddhatma_ ', constantly prevails in your meditation, _dhyan_. So now _jagruti_ , the awareness, has arisen. What is needed now? So it is not necessary to do chanting of 'I am _Shuddhatma_ '; such things are not needed here. This is a wonder of one kind that here such chanting is not needed; Gnanis do not have to chant, do they? Chanting is in the form of words.

## Chanting stops natural awareness of the Self

What happens to those who have the right vision ( _samikit_ ) ? They become aware of 'I am _Shuddhatma_ ', but with others, those who do not have Self-realization, there is no surety with them. Once in a while it will come into their awareness that 'I am an Atma', but it comes automatically to those who are Self-realized. There is a big different between _smaran,_ recalling from memory, which is something that has to be done; and that which automatically comes into one's awareness. _Smaran_ is associated with about _vismaran_ (forgetting). Recall has to be done for that which is forgotten. So these are all methods for one to climb higher. You do not have to do chanting of 'I am _Shuddhatma_ '. If you do chant, then that main thing (the spontaneous awareness of 'I am _Shuddhatma_ ') will stop. It comes naturally from within, spontaneously it arises - 'I am _Shuddhatma_ ', that _laksha_ , awareness, remains constantly without fail.

**Questioner** : Yes, the _laksha_ of 'I am _Shuddhatma_ ' remains constantly, twenty-four hours.

**Dadashri** : That will remain in Your _laksha_ ; that _laksha_ remains.

**Questioner** : So I don't have to say, 'I am _Shuddhatma_?'

**Dadashri** : If you want to say it, then say it. If you don't want to say it, then it is not necessary. It remains constantly in your _laksha_ , twenty-four hours. Every night when sleep comes You should say 'I am _Shuddhatma_ ' And You should remain in the five Agna; it is more than enough. From this very point, You are liberated. You, will not be touched by any pain ( _dukha_ ); worldly pain will not touch You-the Self, now.

## That which remains naturally is correct

**Questioner:** Should I sit down to meditate on the Self, with a natural intent ( _sahaj bhav_ ) or not?

**Dadashri** : That verily is called natural intent ( _sahaj bhavey_ ). Without any effort of any kind, when you wake up from your sleep, does the awareness of 'I am _Shuddhatma_ ' come to You on its own or not?

**Questioner** : It comes.

**Dadashri** : That is called _sahaj_ and everything else is called _asahaj_ – unnatural. This, 'I am _Shuddhatma_ ' is called _sahaj_ ; it comes on its own and over there ( to followers of Srimad Rajchandra) when they give the mantra of ' _Sahajatma swaroop param guru_ '(The natural state of the Self is the absolute guru) to do _smaran_ ( mental recitation); that may or may not come to one's memory. One has to make an effort for that. Whereas this comes automatically, it has become natural ( _sahaj_ ) to You. Your state has become one of _Sahajatma swaroop_ ; You have become that. Your Atma, the Self has become _sahaj_ ; it has come into its natural state, now the body complex, the relative self has to be 'made' _sahaj_. It can become _sahaj_ (natural) with the Agna. When both become _sahaj_ ; that is called _moksha_!

## _Shukladhyan_ leads to moksha

Does the _laksha_ of 'I am _Shuddhatma_ ' remain constantly?

**Questioner** : It remains constantly Dada.

**Dadashri** : That is called ' _atmadhyan_ ' that is called ' _shukladhyan_ '. _Shukladhyan_ is the direct cause for liberation! Otherwise, not even for a moment can the Self be remembered. There was a man who was a stranger to facts about the Atma-the Self, he learnt about _Shuddhatma_. Then the next day he tried to recall what that word was, he could not remember. 'What was that word?' For almost a quarter of an hour he could not remember. So this is not something that is committed to memory. This is the direct realization ( _sakshatkar_ ) and oneness with the Self, 'I am the Self' ( _abhedata_ ) here.

## Awareness of that which is unknowable

So it is possible for the _laksha_ (awareness) of the world to become established but the _laksha_ of the Self can never be established become established. Such is the _Paramatma_ ; He is _alakha_ (unknowable) and _niranjan_ without _karma._ That _laksha_ , the Gnani Purush can establish. Thereafter only can liberation be attained. Otherwise there is no possibility of becoming free. The worldly awareness gets established in the slightest of conversation. When one says 'this is your business partner', then the awareness of 'here comes my business partner' will get established the very next day. That awareness will not elude you at all. If you break your leg during the day, at night the moment you wake up, your walking stick will immediately come to mind. Hey you _mooah_ (the dying one)! How is it that in just one day you remember that your leg is broken? But he will say, 'No, that _laksha_ has taken hold, my leg is broken'. At night he will say, 'bring me my stick'. 'Hey! What stick?', and he will say, 'my leg is broken'. So even in just one day he has not forgotten. He would not forget; that is what we mean by established _laksha_.

Therefore Your work is done now. Just keep saying, 'Dada...Dada'. Keep saying ' _Shuddhatma_... _Shuddhatma_ '. Dada is the same as _Shuddhatma_. 'We' too do _namaskar_ , bow down, to Dada Bhagwan. That Dada Bhagwan is the Lord of the fourteen worlds; He has manifested within!

The _laksha_ , awareness of 'I am _Shuddhatma_ ' remains. The _laksha_ of 'I am Chandubhai' will not remain. But even then you will not forget it. If someone asks, 'are you Chandubhai?', then have you forgotten that? You will say, 'no! I have not forgotten that!' Just like in the King Bhartruhari play, the lead man will play the role of King Bhartruhari; you have to play the part of Chandubhai here. And the one playing the role of Bhartruhari knows within that 'I am Laxmichand'. Here You know that 'I am _Shuddhatma_ '.

## The President will not forget 'I am the President'

If a man has just been released from prison and he becomes the president, then he will not forget day or night that he is the president, will he? So if he does not forget, it means he will not forget his work either. If someone asks him a question, he will give the answer with the understanding of 'I am the President'. So now that You have become _Shuddhatma_ , You have to give the answer with the understanding that 'I am _Shuddhatma_ '. This is Your natural state of the Self that You have become. Understand this. Unfolding _karma_ effect ( _udayakarma_ ) may be very strong on the outside. It will be forceful even against the President. Due to unfolding _karma_ effect someone may throw a stone, another may swear at him. All that unfolding _karma_ effect is on his head too, but as a President, he fulfils his obligation. In the same way, You have to fulfill Your obligation as _Shuddhatma_. Just because You are _Shuddhatma_ you are not going to forget that 'I am Chandubhai' and all that. Do you think forgetting that will sustain you? Everything is in the _laksha_.

In the _kramic_ path, the traditional spiritual path where the seeker progresses one step at a time; the seeker has to exert so much effort before he the target of the Self ( _laksha_ ) comes into his awareness ( _khyal_ ). That _laksha_ will never be established. He has to keep it-The Self- in his (target) _laksha_. Just as you have to maintain the targeted awareness ( _laksha_ ) of business related things, if you have a business, do you not have to? Similarly, in the _kramic_ path one has to keep in his targeted awareness ( _laksha_ ) that the Self is like this. And that too, he can remain in such awareness, when _pratiti_ (conviction) sets in. Then he will have conviction on the only the attributes of the Self. However this ours is called _Atmanubhav,_ the experience of the Self. This is because _sahajata,_ naturalness, that which happens with ease and naturally, happens here in the Akram Path. And where one has to make an effort; that is not called experience ( _anubhav_ ). In the _kramic_ path one has to set the conviction and all that. One has to make an effort to set _pratiti,_ conviction, in the _kramic_ path.

'Your' _atmanubhav,_ experience of the Self, according to Your vision is right too, it is not wrong. But it is a partial-incomplete experience. And through Akram path You have attained this experience naturally so You will benefit in this. This experience will increase as You progress. As _jagruti_ awakened awareness, increases, You will have to understanding the whole thing. You will have to understand all this Gnan by staying in touch with the Gnani.

## Why is the complete experience lacking?

Why has it remained as a conviction? Why not as experience? Complete conviction, complete Gnan and complete experience; all three must remain. But no, the complete experience does not remain, neither does the complete Gnan, but complete conviction does remain. It's because you still have to settle with all your files with equanimity. In reality You are _Shuddhatma_ , this state of yours is an interim state ( _antaratma_ ). Why an interim state? The answer is because you still have to settle and discharge all pending files. Once the files have been discharged-settled with equanimity, the 'full government' ( _Paramatma_ ) will be there. All this is obstructed because of the files.

' _Vardhamaan samkit thayee, tadey mithyabhaas_ '(the increasing right vision shatters the false illusion), meaning now that You have attained the eternal right vision ( _kshayak samkit_ ), it too will increase. Once the conviction is complete, it will bring experience. As that experience continues to grow, You will increasingly see the falsities of the world ( _mithyatva_ ). The law practice that you used to value and worship; now feels false. You are a father to these boys, a father to the girls, all that is a falsity, no? Not only is it false, but it is a false illusion, _mithya_ _abhaas_!

**Questioner** : So Dada when I see anything as false, does it start to shed away automatically and naturally?

**Dadashri** : It has become loose for sure. That, which You see as _mithya_ , false; leaves You for sure.

## The certainty of the exact experience

**Questioner** : When can 'I' exactly say that 'I know'?

**Dadashri** : Only after it comes into experience, can it be said that the knowing ( _jaanyoo, jaanavoo_ ) is exact.

**Questioner** : What is the assurance that the experience is exact, Dada?

**Dadashri:** When Gnan is given here, at that time one gets the 'touch' of the experience ( _anubhav_ ) therefore _pratiti,_ conviction sets in. However it is not considered a complete experience. Now the law of the world is such that for every thing, conviction sets in first. If you explain anything to someone like, 'brother, by doing such exercises, your body and everything else will become healthy', the moment the other person listens to this, if he listens carefully and systematically, then conviction will set within him. And once the conviction is established, he will start to put it in action. And after he starts, he will get the experience and then it is considered that one has 'known' this. Thereafter he can explain things to others so that they also can know. If you have _pratiti,_ conviction only, and you try to give explanations then there is no substance to it. Therefore after establishing this _pratiti_ when it comes in Your experience, thereafter, that _darshan,_ vision, will start to change into Gnan.

**Questioner:** How can 'I' know the stage-level of experience?

**Dadashri:** In whatever matters of worldly interaction there is no effect ( _asar_ ), then it that matter that experience is complete. And in those matters, wherever there is an effect ( _asar_ ), the stage of experience ( _anubhav_ ) is deficient.

**Questioner** : Dada, the fact that there is no effect, is it due to the result of knowing the Self, or is it due to another reason like a state of relative neutrality ( _udasin bhav_ ) that has arisen?

**Dadashri** : Some of it fits due to knowing the Self. There is a little experience of the Self, and therefore that part shuts off, there will be no effect. And where the experience is incomplete, then that part will lead to an effect- _asar._

**Questioner** : Is there some kind of a thermometer to measure my progress?

**Dadashri** : That thermometer is verily the Atma, the Self. It will tell you 'it is not proper yet. The experience is fine up to this point.' The Self continues to work just like a thermometer.

**Questioner** : _Pratiti_ , conviction, plus the Agna, means the state of experience will come, no?

**Dadashri** : Whatever the matter in which 'I' give you Agna, you will gain the experience by that much. The Agna will not come into your experience in all other matters, right?

**Questioner** : From which view point will the Agna not come into my experience?

**Dadashri** : Whatever Agna has been given, it will be of a certain 'corner'. That 'corner' will fit. It will not fit in any other places.

Whether someone beats you, or robs you, even then _raag_ - _dwesh_ do not arise; that is the thermometer. You need a thermometer, no? There is no problem if you cry. But _raag_ - _dwesh_ should not happen. If someone hits you, the body complex may cry if it is soft natured, and it may laugh if it is tough; you are not to see that. You just have to see whether _raag_ - _dwesh_ has departed or not.

**Questioner** : Then Dada that means that if someone swears at me, I am affected and my facial expression changes, but from within there is no _raag_ - _dwesh_ for that person, what then?

**Dadashri** : That weakness is still there within. Later even your facial expression will not change. At this stage in Your path, if the facial expression changes, there is no problem. Even if you cry, there is no problem. If you cannot take the beating and you cry, even then there is no problem.

**Questioner** : The facial expression turning sour; is that a weakness?

**Dadashri** : Weakness of course! What else?

## When can you remain as Shuddhatma?

One man asked me, 'Dada, I have the awareness all day long that I am _Shuddhatma_ , but I am not able to become _Shuddhatma_ , yet'.

Hey You! Why are You trying to become _Shuddhatma_? At the moment You only have the conviction, 'I am _Shuddhatma_ '. What happens when the _pratiti_ , conviction is established, is that all the seeds of _karma_ that were within, are all burnt and destroyed. They will not grow again, ever. Now a resolution has to come for the past seeds (those that are ready to bear fruits), no? These seeds will give fruits (come into effect) and end. However many come into effect, that much of _anubhav-gnan_ , experiencial knowledge, will manifest within. The further progression starts from _pratiti_. So when does _anubhav-gnan,_ experiential knowledge, manifest? The answer is when bitter-sweet fruits come forth, during that time absolute equanimity ( _samata_ ) prevails, that is one's _anubhav-gnan_ , experiential knowledge. When _vitaragata_ (absolutely without attachment and abhorrence) prevails, and this _anubhav-gnan_ manifests, it will manifest in one's conduct and that is when one becomes _Shuddhatma_. As long as the baggage is stored within, it needs to come out and when it has all come out, that is when it will come into conduct ( _charitra_ ). Is it likely to come into one's conduct otherwise? Is it possible for us to laugh and eat flour at the same time? Either we laugh or we eat the dry flour.

## The signs of the experience of the Self

**Questioner** : If just once the experience of the Self becomes steady and established, then nothing else remains.

**Dadashri** : Yes. It becomes established; then it does not leave. Then the whole daylong it remains established. Not just one hour, but the entire day, it remains constantly established.

**Questioner** : How can we experience the _Shuddhatma_?

**Dadashri** : One man just came to ask the same question. He said to me, 'I am not able to have the experience of the _Shuddhatma_ the way it should be.' I told him, 'Does the _chetavnaro_ , the one that cautions, caution you from within? He replied, 'all day long he cautions me'. I asked, 'did he caution you before Gnan?' and he replied, 'no, no one was alerting or warning me'. I said, 'that verily is the _chetan,_ the Self within, that is cautioning you'. Just look at this, the experience of the Self all day long! Mooah (the dying one)! – The whole day the experience of the Self remains. Does the _chetavnaro_ not caution you? That is the _chetan_ , the Self, cautioning you. Before (prior to Gnan), _chetan_ was not there and there was no one to caution you either. The Self, _chetan_ , is cautioning you, no? What does it say?

**Questioner** : Yes, he does caution me.

**Dadashri** : So then this is the experience; the Self cautions you, previously this was not the case, right? Before Gnan this was never the case! This in itself is the experience!

**Questioner** : What should I doing in that experience?

**Dadashri** : If You follow the five Agna, then the liability is Mine, You will be taken to _moksha_ in one more life time!

This is a living Vignan and so it cautions you from within. All day long it cautions you. If you are a little inattentive, it will caution you. Has that happened to you any day? When you were inattentive and you were cautioned from within?

**Questioner** : Yes, even then it cautions.

**Dadashri** : Hmmm. So who is that? The answer is; it is the experience of the Self. Constantly, all day the experience of the Self remains, such is the Vignan. Otherwise has the world seen such an experience of the Self? Everything is in the form of a shadow. It is because they see the shadow that they do not see the real thing. They have seen the shadow but they have not seen the real element. There is just an illusion; that is all. So that is only an illusion ( _aabhas_ ), whereas this is a fact!

## Who is the continuous cautioner?

The Self that has been given to You, is it truly the One, or is there another One?

**Questioner** : It is the right One that has been given to 'us- _mahatmas_ '.

**Dadashri** : That Self is always with you. How would You know whether 'It is This' or that other? All the _atma_ are within only, which one out of them all, is the correct One?

If it is not the real Atma, the Self, then the cautioning from within, will stop. Even these people in the world ( _agnani_ ) talk about the atma-the self, but no one cautions them; there is no 'Cautioner' for them. And therefore they become confused that, what is this? Should there not be some response against this confusion? 'You— _mahatma_ feel some response within, do You not? It responds does it not? If it does not give you any response, then where will you go and ring the bell? You will keep ringing the bell! You will ring the bell and hear its sound only. Here one remains the way he is; confused. That is the main difference that has happened after Gnan. And only if he gives You the response can You can work with him. If you do not respond to me, how long can I keep saying, 'Chandubhai, Chandubhai'? Will I gain anything by putting my arm over your shoulder? But if you respond by asking, 'Why did you put your hand over my shoulder?', then I would know that you are responding.

**Questioner** : Are the 'Cautioner' and the 'cautioned' not one and the same?

**Dadashri** : They are the same, are they not? But right now, it is only the one becoming cautioned. When the 'Cautioner' wakes up, then they will become one. After awakening, the 'Cautioner' cautions him (the cautioned), 'Hey You, that is not it, come here, come this way'. The 'Cautioner' is telling the one being cautioned, 'Not that way, come this way.' It is calling back the roving tendencies of the relative _chit_.

**Questioner** : Who is the one gets cautioned?

**Dadashri** : It is those tendencies ( _vrutis_ ). It is that which become mixed in the relative.

**Questioner** : So then who becomes one? And with whom?

**Dadashri** : The self becomes one with the Self.

**Questioner** : So the 'Cautioner' and the 'cautioned' become one?

**Dadashri** : Yes. The 'Cautioner' becomes one with the 'cautioned.' And one becomes the 'cautioned' one, from the moment he gives a response. Until then there was never the 'cautioned' one. No one was listening to anyone.

**Questioner** : What does response mean?

**Dadashri** : Response means, that if he is told, 'This way', so he will say, 'Okay, fine, correct.' When he turned around to 'this' side (of the Self); that becomes a right belief. Before, it was a wrong belief, now it has become a right belief.

**Questioner** : So the does 'Cautioner' attain the right belief from You?

**Dadashri** : It is like this, mainly there is a wrong belief, so then what is the right belief? So when we make him aware, he attains the right belief, his vision changes. Just as, if I turn you around, your vision will change, and then you will say, 'This was not there before, I can see the whole ocean now.' After that, the response begins.

**Questioner** : Yes... so we need a _nimit_ (instrument, evidence) to change that.

**Dadashri** : That is only a _nimit,_ for sure.

**Questioner** : Who is that, does that have to be a Gnani Purush?

**Dadashri** : Yes, who else? Only the One who knows; can be the _nimit_. Only the one who knows will say anything.

**Questioner** : Then where lies the main Self?

**Dadashri** : It is there, it is at the same place. The original Self, does not do anything in this, has no role in this. The energy that is separate from it, _pragnyashakti_ (energy of the Self), is doing all this. When the work is done, that energy will become _tanmayakar,_ become one, with the Self.

**Questioner** : Then who is the 'Cautioner' in all this?

**Dadashri** : It is the _pragnyashakti_ , but why don't we refer to it as the Self! We should call it the Self.

**Questioner** : And so then who becomes cautioned?

**Dadashri** : It is the tendencies ( _vrutis_ ), belief, that had become separate, the belief had separated.

**Questioner** : Can the one being cautioned be called _pudgal,_ the non-Self complex?

**Dadashri** : Not _pudgal_.

**Questioner** : So then these _vrutis_ (tendencies) are not in _pudgal_ form?

**Dadashri** : It is a belief; the _pudgal_ arises out of that belief.

The 'Cautioner' has no choice. That is its business. So it is its duty to take him to _moksha_. The wrong beliefs have moved aside, so then he has to be cautioned.

**Questioner** : Now when that experience manifests in conduct, will the 'Cautioner' and the cautioned become one?

**Dadashri** : That will happen automatically. Coming into conduct is itself the completion. Those (when one) are with conduct, and these (when two) are without conduct.

**Questioner** : As long as conduct has not arisen, the 'Cautioner' , and the 'cautioned' are separate?

**Dadashri** : Yes.

## That which alerts the state of knower-seer

**Questioner:** Where there is a state of _gnata_ - _drashta,_ knower-seer, then where is the question of being cautioned?

**Dadashri:** But when the state of 'knowing' and the state of 'seeing' is not there then the 'Cautioner' will caution , will it not? It will say, 'hey, it should not be like this.'

**Questioner:** Yes. Then what is that stage? The stage where one has to become the 'Cautioner', what is that stage called?

**Dadashri:** The force of unfolding of _karma_ pushes One out of the 'knower-seer' state, and at that time the 'Cautioner takes over and says, 'beware,' and bring him back. If the 'Cautioner' does not caution, then it will become weak.

**Questioner:** That is right. But this is not called the original stage of the Self, is it?

**Dadashri:** Where is the question of the original stage here? You become weak if there is no Cautioner ( _chetavanar_ ) _._ Nothing remains to be done when the original stage is attained.

'You' are able to remain in the state of knower-seer as much as possible. 'You' are not able to remain in this state because of other obstacles. But 'You' are able to come back even after becoming the 'Cautioner'. Other obstructions do exist, don't they? Otherwise there are no obstructions after remaining in the 'knower-seer' state. Nothing is left for You to do, is there? The one who has obstructions has to be cautioned, and heed inner warning.

**Questioner:** This stage of the 'Cautioner' and cautioning continues for a long time. Original Self is different, and despite this the process of the cautioning continues.

**Dadashri:** It continues. It will continue. In that You have to apply more force. That which was going in the wrong direction, the direction of the non-Self, has to be corrected to the right, the direction of the Self!

**Questioner:** Now the awakened Self wants to become absorbed and merged in his own Self, but all doors to That have shut down. The further Gnan of the Self which remains to be known and experienced, it totally closes down and I am not able to progress to the next stage.

**Dadashri:** It is like this; _purnahuti_ , completion is that where no other _pratiti_ can set in. There is no need of doing completion of anything else; you have to bring about completion of _pratiti,_ conviction. You do not have to bring about completion of this _achaar,_ conduct. And _pratiti_ of any other thing will not set in. So let him toss around and keep trying inside, You have to keep on 'seeing' that too. Do not let the intellect enter; intellect does not let one take rest.

**Questioner:** Intellect harasses a lot.

**Dadashri:** Yes, intellect can close the door of _pratiti,_ conviction. It can make one close the door of _pratiti_. However now it is not possible to set other _pratiti,_ conviction at all. What more do You need?

Worship of the Self is the thing to be experienced continuously. The experience of the Self remains continuously. That which cautions You within is verily the Self. Does it caution You?

**Questioner:** Yes.

**Dadashri:** In the prior state of _agnan,_ ignorance of the Self, there was no 'Cautioner,' and hence there was no cautioning, from within. Now it, _pragnya,_ cautions You inside, 'hey, this way, not that way.' It does caution You, does it not?

**Questioner:** In that there is the lingering greed to see 'It - the Self,' directly in front, _pratyaksha_.

**Dadashri:** Do you? It is not a thing that You can see through the eyes. _Aksha_ means through eyes. It is not a thing, which You can see through the eyes. You will be able to experience 'It'. When I put this sugar cube in your mouth, you will say, 'now I understand.' That's all; finally you have to attain this understanding.

_Pratiti_ conviction sets in, that is called ' _joyo -_ seen'. Not through these eyes but _pratiti_ will set in. Then _laksha,_ awareness will set in, that is called ' _janyo -_ known'. And then _vitaragata,_ absolutely free from attachment or abhorrence, remains; that is called _anubhav,_ experience. So from day one only _pratiti_ sets in, at that time You have already seen the Atma - the Self.

## Sopportive gnan is helpful towards completion

**Questioner** : We have the _pratiti,_ conviction of 'I am _Shuddhatma_ ', what is lacking for the experience, _anubhav_?

**Dadashri** : The gnan, knowledge, that is necessary for that state is lacking. Necessary, means the supportive gnan ( _tekagnan_ ). All this that I am talking, is supportive gnan. Based on that, you will attain the experience.

**Questioner** : So, in the _teka_ - _gnan_ , supportive gnan, there is the art of worldly knowledge and the art of Gnan.

**Dadashri** : Supportive knowledge is the words we have given. However, there is no such thing as supportive knowledge but it is something that helps you. For entering into the stage of experience this knowledge is lacking.

**Questioner** : So the _darshan,_ vision, is absolute but there is a need for this supportive knowledge?

**Dadashri** : It is because of this lack of supportive knowledge that this experience does not fit for him. If one has heard Dada saying, 'Whatever happens is correct', then when something happens, that supportive knowledge will help him and give him the experience.

**Questioner** : So is that sentence considered supportive knowledge, _tekagnan_?

**Dadashri** : _Tekagnan_ is the word we have given it but its root must lie be the other Gnan. You will have the experience if You have that ( _tekagnan_ ). That is why 'we' say all these things.

**Questioner** : Now, what did he have in his _darshan,_ vision, at that time?

**Dadashri** : _Darshan_ is still there. Awareness of the _darshan_ is complete.

**Questioner** : What facts or details does he have in his _darshan_?

**Dadashri** : In _darshan_ , he has the darshan with awareness, and that is the _pratiti,_ conviction. _Darshan_ means _pratiti_ ; then one does not need anything else.

**Questioner** : So, is 'I am _Shuddhatma_ ' a _pratiti_?

**Dadashri** : 'I am _Shuddhatma_ ' for sure and everything, 'What is this?' 'What is that?' - he has all that _pratiti_. But without supportive knowledge ( _tekagnan_ ), it will not allow him the experience. If he has heard the statement, 'fault is of the sufferer', then when he has to suffer, he will experience that the fault is his. It is really true. But what if he has not heard that statement before? It will not fit. At that time, the _buddhi,_ intellect will say 'how can you call this justice?' Therefore, if one has heard supportive knowledge ( _tekagnan_ ) from 'us', it will help him tremendously. Those who remain around me would hear that. Even if an _agnani,_ one not Self-realised, catches on to the statement 'The fault is of the sufferer', it will work for him. He too will experience that 'this statement is correct'. They are all considered experienced in the worldly life interaction ( _vyavahaar_ ) whaeras these _mahatmas_ have experienced the Self ( _atmanubhav_ ). 'The fault is of the sufferer' means that whenever he makes any mistake, he will immediately remember those words, and deduce that, 'Wow! What was under my control? This was just my account of _karma._ ' So then he gains that experience.

**Questioner** : So, one has awareness of the Self, but he needs this _tekagnan_ to attain the experience of the Self.

**Dadashri** : 'I am _Shuddhatma_ ', that is already in Your experience, is it not? The experience of _dehadhyas,_ 'I am this body' has been broken, this expereience has been attained.

**Questioner** : It is in the form of _pratiti_ (conviction), is it not?

**Dadashri** : Whatever method it may be, but it is an experience, is it not? Now further experience is for the Gnan (complete experience) to manifest. It will manifest forever when it comes into experience.

**Questioner** : So, in that way, is new gnan (knowledge) necessary for every situation that arises?

**Dadashri** : Yes, of course it is necessary. You need all that, do you not? As many different types of knowledge ( _gnan_ ) as there are, there are that many phases.

**Questioner** : You had mentioned that there is ignorance, behind every confusion and entanglement. Therefore, some kind of knowledge is required for the solution of that entanglement. It is different every time, so this is a question of manifesting of the knowledge, is it not?

**Dadashri** : Yes. The Self in relation to the experience. Your experience will continue to increase now; the Self will continue manifesting. How much of it has manifested? It depends on the experience.

## Who experiences it?

**Questioner** : Who experiences the Self?

**Dadashri** : It is 'You', Yourself. The illusion that had arisen from _agnan,_ ignorance of the Self; that goes away and the Self comes back into its place. The 'one' who had the awareness of 'I am Chandubhai', to that one, 'I—Gnani Purush' make let go of that awareness, and it is the same one, who now attains the awareness of 'I am _Shuddhatma_ (I am pure Soul)'. The subtlest ( _sookshmatam_ ) ego, of which a snap shot cannot be taken, is invisible like space ( _amurta_ ), it gets the experience. So it is that ego verily that experiences, 'I am pure Soul'. Then the ego dissolves and _pragnya,_ the liberating energy of the Self, arises. The reign and influence of _agna,_ ignorance, goes away.

**Questioner** : Are the one attaining the experience and the one seeing the experience, are they different or the same?

**Dadashri** : They are both the same. The one attaining the experience and the one seeing it are the same. If the ego did not have the experience, then it would have said, the experience did not happen to me, and if it does experience it, it will pass the authority on to _pragyna_ and say, 'this is Your rule now'. The one who has the experience and the one who sees that, are both the same.

## Gnan-darshan itself is verily the absolute light

That which is theoretical is not called _anubhav_ , experience; that is called _samaj,_ understanding, and that which is practical, is called experience. Full understanding, _samaj_ and full experience, _anubhav_ is called _jyoti,_ light. That verily is the light; that verily is Gnan; that verily is _Paramatma,_ the absolute Self.

**Questioner:** But this can only be understood if I remain with You, no?

**Dadashri:** As the _parichaya,_ familiarity, increases, the _prakash,_ light increases. And the familiarity that increases by staying with Me, is called experience.

**Questioner:** Dadaji, what is the difference between _shraddha,_ faith and _parichaya,_ familiarity?

**Dadashri:** Familiarity lets the faith set and become firm. As faith increases, familiarity increases and that leads to experience, _anubhav_. What does the extra familiarity related faith and familiarity do? Experiences keep on happening. Therefore stay in touch and familiarity.

**Questioner:** Dadaji, when I cannot stay in _parichaya,_ familiarity then how much will the books of Dada help?

**Dadashri:** Everything will help. These entire material here, all things of Dada, those are Dada's words, the intent is Dada. So everything will help.

**Questioner:** But there is a difference between personal _parichaya_ and this, isn't it?

**Dadashri:** If you try to evaluate the difference then there is difference in everything. Therefore You have to do whatever presents at whatever time. What can You do when Dada is not here? You should read Dada's book. Dada is verily there in the book, isn't He? Otherwise, the moment you close your eyes, You will see Dada!

# [5] Charitra Moha

## Definition of darshan _moha_

**Questioner** : What is _darshan_ _moha_?

**Dadashri** : _Darshan_ _moha_ is that which makes you believe what is not real, as being real. What does the world say? That which 'is not'; it makes you believe as, 'is'. No, but alas how can we say 'it is not' when I can openly see it as 'is'? But you are not really Chandubhai, truly you are not and yet they make you believe that you truly are Chandubhai. That is _darshan moha_. Then you are not the body but even then you say this body is who I am.

**Questioner** : It will reinforce his ownership.

**Dadashri** : When there is 'I am' ( _hoon_ _chhoo_ ), the ownership will be there without fail. This is called _darshan_ _moha_. When 'I am' goes away, the ownership goes away. If _darshan_ _moha_ goes away, then man can become free from the world otherwise there is no freedom. Anyone that meets 'us', 'we' tell them 'you are not Chandubhai'. Then he will say, 'I am Chandubhai. Why are you saying that?' 'Hey dear man, you are not Chandubhai. Chandubhai is your name'. That is when he begins to doubt. 'Yes you are correct. My name is Chandubhai but who am I?' Dada then shows him and makes Him experience the Self; and that is when _darshan_ _moha_ ('I am Chandulal') departs. He was walking around blindfolded but now He can 'see'. So _darshan_ _moha_ was broken and now He is able to 'see'. Then people will comment, 'why are you wearing so many fancy things? You have so much _moha_!' You will not know that this is _moha_ ; but it is _charitra_ _moha_. It is the effect of the illusory intents ( _moha_ _bhav_ ), which were made previously. This is an effect, not a cause. The causes have stopped. Those for whom the causes have stopped attain _moksha_.

**Questioner** : Dada but how does _darshan_ _moha_ break?

**Dadashri** : There is no other way except when the Gnani Purush frees You from it. What is _darshan_ _moha_? Instead of looking this way, You look on the other side. The Gnani Purush turns 'Your' vision ( _drashti_ ). You are not able to do it by your self-efforts. This is the worldly vision and behind that is the vision of the Self ( _Atma drashti_ ). The Gnani Purush turns the vision towards the Self – the Atma. Thereafter You understand 'this is who I am'.

## The definition of charitra _moha_

And _charitra moha_ means that whatever seeds that were sown through _darshan moha_ , whatever seeds you planted in the farm, will still need to be harvested, even though the _darshan_ _moha_ is gone. Now you do not like it, 'there is no happiness in this! Why does it come my way?' That is called _charitra moha_.

Sowing a seed in the field is _darshan moha_ (cause) itself, and from the time the plant grows till it bears fruits; it is all _charitra_ _moha_. This whole world has been trapped by _darshan_ _moha_. When _darshan_ _moha_ goes, one attains _kshayak samkit_ (indelible conviction that,'I am pure Soul'), but _charitra_ _moha_ remains.

## Definition of kshayak samkit

The scriptures say that right now, in the current time era, the state of _kshayak samkit_ cannot happen. So then can _darshan_ _moha_ (the illusory belief 'I am Chandubhai') go away? And by how much? The answer is when the four _anatanubandhi_ (karma that results in bondage of infinite duration), one _mithyatva_ _mohaniya_ (illusion of wrong belief), one _mishra_ _mohaniya_ (illusion of mixed right-wrong belief), and the seventh _samyaktva mohaniya_ (illusion about the exact nature of the Self) end; that is when _kshayak_ _samkit_ happens. _Samyaktva_ _mohaniya_ cannot not end in this current era of the time cycle (except for Akram Vignan).

That is why people told Krupadudev Srimad Rajchandra (Gnani Purush 1867-1901), 'you say that you have attained _kshayak_ _samkit_ (the Knowledge of the Self that is eternal), but we do not believe it'. So Krupadudev said, 'let them not believe, it is their way, but I believe it for sure'. And 'ours' (Akram Vignan Self-realization) is open to the sky. Ours is _keval Gnan_. But it is undigested _keval Gnan_ , and _kshayak samkit_ has been digested. One cannot even begin to talk about it. A great history will be written on this. This is considered the greatest wonder!

**Questioner** : In the Akram path, many have the experience that _darshan_ _moha_ goes away with the Gnan of the Gnani Purush.

**Dadashri** : When 'we' give Gnan, _darshan_ _moha_ goes away completely. When _darshan_ _moha_ goes away completely, it is called _kshayak samkit_. Then pure _charitra_ _mohaniya_ remains. If you attain _upsham_ _samkit_ (intermittent awareness of the Self), 'I' have to call it impure. Here, it is _kshayak_ _samkit_ ; _bhaav_ _karma_ (karma that charges new karma) is completely gone, is it not?

## What remains is charitra _moha_

It is said in the scriptures that if you know _dravya_ (matter), _guna_ (attribute), _paryaya_ (phases) of the Self, then through _nischaya_ (as the Self), _moha_ (illusion) goes away. _Vyavahar_ _moha_ (illusion in discharging worldly interaction) remains, meaning _charitra_ _moha_. Can You tell ('know') that the illusion _moha_ is less than before? That sticky _moha_ is not there anymore, is it? 'You' do not have to let go of anything. To let go and not to let go; both are the same. Before, you kept remembering the thing that you had to let go of.

A mistake has been made in understanding the entire _charitra mohaniya_. Only Krupadudev understood it. Everywhere else there has been a mistake in understanding. Now if a mistake has been made in the fundamental understanding, what happens when one moves forward? Nothing will work out.

That is why Krupadudev wrote,

' _Karma mohaniya bheda bey, darshan-charitra naam, haney bodha vitaragata'._

_Mohaniya_ (illusion) karma of two kinds, namely _darshan_ and _charitra_ ; the former leaves with the Gnan and the latter leaves with _vitaragata_ (non-interference in discharge).

_Darshan_ _mohaniya_ is destroyed with the Gnani Purush's _bodha_ (Gnan) and _charitra_ _mohaniya_ leaves through _vitaragata_ (noninterference because of the state devoid of _raag-dwesh_ ). _Charitra_ _mohaniya_ is there but if _vitragata_ is there, it will not touch You. _Vitaragata_ will destroy it.

This nutmeg is considered a nutmeg when the outer shell has been removed. Otherwise, what will happen if you put it into your mouth without removing the shell? So, as long as there is the complete shell of _moha_ (illusion), it cannot be called _charitra_ _moha_. Whatever remains after removing the 'shell' of _darshan_ _moha_ ('I am Chandulal'), is _charitra_ - _moha_. Now, the One without the shell of _darshan_ - _moha_ has attained _kshayak_ _samyaktva_. But that shell needs to be removed. Without that, it is pointless to call it _charitra_ _moha_ , no? As long as _darshan_ - _moha_ has not gone, what _moha_ is there? Strong _moha_.

What is it in fact? It is all _moha_. There are twenty-five kinds of _moha_. And these _mithyatva_ _moha_ (illusion of wrong belief), _mishra moha_ (illusion of mixed right-wrong belief), _samyaktva_ _moha_ (illusion about the exact nature of the Self), have a shell. When this shell of _darshan_ _moha_ goes away; then remains the _charitra_ _moha_.

## The Gnani Purush removes the _moha_ from its very root

It cannot be called _charitra_ _moha_ (illusion in discharge only without any charging), if _darshan_ _moha_ (illusion that charges karma) is not gone; it is called _moha_. No matter whether one has more or less of it. And no matter how much one has reduced his _moha_ , even if it is very little, just sprinkling some water on it will make it huge. How long does it take for _moha_ to become big? It is like wildfire, it will surround you in no time. One may claim that he has reduced his _moha_. _Mooah_! You are not to reduce it; you are to remove it from its root. 'We' have removed your _moha_ from its root. So what is it that comes now; what is the _moha_ that you experience? It is the _moha_ from the past that comes with the 'paperwork', saying 'this is what you had promised!' You have to fulfill that promise, do you not? The _moha_ you had done in the past life comes with the papers to settle that account, because you had made a promise to pay, had you not? They are the files; settle them!

## Without kshayak samkit there is no charitra _moha_

One can explain _charitra_ _moha_ if _darshan_ _moha_ goes away. How can _charitra moha_ be explained in the presence of _darshan_ _moha_? When you go to the _sadhu-maharaj_ (monk – spiritual master), he will say, ' there is too much influence of the _charitra_ _mohaniya_. But no one can mention _charitara_ _moha_. _Charitra_ _moha_ is the _moha_ that remains after one becomes Self-realized ( _kshayak_ _samkit_ ); after that the surplus _moha_ that remains is _charitra moha_.

**Questioner** : Is it not the _moha_ prior to Self-realization?

**Dadashri** : Prior to that, it is simply called _moha_. Beyond _moha_ is _mahamohaniya_ (great illusion). There are many _mahamohaniyas_ , and then there is _mohaniya_. All this building of _derasars_ (Jain temples), doing community service; it is all _moha_.

**Questioner** : But it is a higher kind of _moha_ , is it not?

**Dadashri** : Not higher, it is called auspicious ( _shubha_ ) _moha_. It too is a _moha_. Moha means _moorchha_ (lost in illusion). The _moorchha_ leaves from this and becomes entrenched in that. It was in the house, in his wife etc., and it leaves all that and enters into this building temples etc. One has not gone out of _moorchha._

**Questioner** : Whatever _nirjara_ (discharge) that happens, is it all _charitra_ _moha_?

**Dadashri** : No, all the _moha_ is going to discharge. Discharge is going to happen for each and every karma; but only after when _darshan_ _moha_ leaves _charitra_ - _moha_ remains.

If you want an example of that, how can we explain it? Say if you have left Miami to go to New York by train and you meet a man in Saint Louis station and he asks you where you want to go. You tell him New York. He asks you where you are coming from. You tell him you are coming from Miami. He then tells you ' you have come in the wrong direction, this is not the way to New York'. So you ask, 'which way is it?' and he tells you, 'turn back and get off at Atlanta station. There change your train for the one going to New York. Ask someone before you get on, then you will reach New York.' So from the point where you turned around, that is when your _mithyatava_ _moha_ (the illusion of wrong belief) is gone and You attained _samyaktva_ (right understanding).

From the point where you turn around, it is _charitra_ - _moha_. However far you went in the wrong direction, the distance you walk back; that is all _charitra_ - _moha_. In order to come back, whatever the distance you went in the wrong direction, you will have to come back the same distance, will you not?

## For a Tirthankara, it is charitra _moha_ from birth

_Charitra_ _mohaniya_ arises for You after You attain this Gnan but Lord Mahavira had _charitra_ _mohaniya_ from the moment He was born. He had _charitra_ _moha_ when he got married and _charitra_ _moha_ when his daughter was born. Then he surrendered it all, his clothes and everything else, even that was _charitra_ - _moha_. Everything was _charitra_ - _moha_ right till the end.

**Questioner** : Dada, so then _charitra_ _moha_ will remain all the way even when one is a Tirthankara, right?

**Dadashri** : There is _charitra_ _moha_ right till the end. When _charitramoha_ ends, _keval Gnan_ arises. Tirthankaras refer to discharge _moha_ as _charitra_ - _moha_.

_Darshan_ _mohaniya_ means that which charges karma and its results. When it stops, karma will stop from being charged. One may ask, 'what happens to all those karma that were charged in the past life up until now?' That is _charitra_ _mohaniya_. _Charitra_ - _mohaniya_ means discharge.

## After Self-realizattion what about karma?

Karma will continue to happen. Even if you do not wish to, they will continue to happen.

**Questioner** : They 'arise and get stuck in the wrong way in the throat'

**Dadashri** : Yes they will. That is the rule of karma.

**Questioner** : But Dada, all that is _charitra_ _moha_ now, is it not?

**Dadashri** : All that is _charitra_ _moha_ , but it is _charitra_ _moha_ after attaining Gnan. If one has not attained Gnan, then for him, it is called _moha_. The one who attains Gnan, his _darshan_ _moha_ is destroyed and that is when _charitra_ _moha_ remains. With _darshan_ _moha_ , karma is charged and with _charitra_ - _moha_ it is not. _Charitra_ _moha_ is settling ( _nikali_ ). It will give its fruit, bitter or sweet, and then leave.

**Questioner** : Will it give the kind of fruit it was charged with?

**Dadashri** : Yes, if it (cause) was bitter, then it will give bitter fruits and if it was sweet, then it will give sweet fruits.

## Amazing! The revelations of the Tirthankaras

Other people do not even know what to think about this. The Lord must have been wise, right? He could not have been completely crazy, could he?

**Questioner** : No, not at all.

**Dadashri** : Look, how He has have given it the name ' _charitra_ _moha_ '. What kind of _moha_ is this and what kind of _moha_ is that? The answer is this is _charitra_ _moha_. Why this word ' _charitra_ _moha_ '? It is because people will ask, 'Dear man, why are you doing this now? What kind of _moha_ is this?' The answer is, 'Dear brother, it is of a different kind. The kind that Lord Mahavir talked about is different. It is a _nirbija_ (seedless) _moha_ (cause free); it is a _moha_ that does not sow seeds of new karma. People of the world will question what kind of _moha_ it is! They will not understand; 'we' (Dada and _mahatmas_ ) know that this is _charitra_ - _moha_. The _moha_ that is _nirbija,_ meaning it is a seed that has been roasted (it cannot germinate). It will not grow, that is the kind of _moha_ it is.

Because people would not understand _charitra_ _moha_ , 'we' called it as 'discharge _moha_ '. These people do not understand _charitra_ _moha_. They all talk about it, but they understand only a part of it, not the rest. People claim that this too is _moha_ , is it not? Is wearing clothes, wearing a nice tie, wearing a watch; is all that not _moha_? What does the Gnani Purush say about this ? It is _moha_ , but it is _charitra_ _moha_. Because _darshan_ _moha_ (charge _moha_ ) is gone, _charitra_ _moha_ remains. Otherwise, it would have been called _moha_ , simply _moha_.

When _charitra_ _moha_ is understood somewhat, 'we' call it as discharge _moha_. The simple word 'discharge' comes; One will immediately understand that this something that has come to leave.

How wonderfully it has been explained! What kind of _moha_ is this? It is _charitra_ _moha_. The whole world is being hung by _darshan_ _mohaniya_. _Charitra_ _moha_ has nothing to do with it. Even when One with _charitra_ _mohaniya_ has problems, He experiences _samadhi_. And no matter how much _charitra_ (good worldly conduct) one has followed, he will not experience _samadhi_ , if he has _darshan_ _moha_. No matter how much external conduct _charitra_ he has followed, as long as his _darshan_ _moha_ is not gone, leave aside _samadhi_ , he will not even have peace. And no matter what one's _charitra_ _moha_ is, if His _darshan_ _moha_ is gone, He will experience _samadhi_. Then the Lord said even if one is being hung by _charitra_ _moha_ (discharge _moha_ ), it will do, but it will not do if one is hung by _darshan_ _moha_ (charge _moha_ ). The one with _darshan_ _moha_ is not aware of the direction at all.The one with _charitra_ _moha_ will go back and forth a little in the path, but the other one is going in the wrong direction altogether. There is no telling which direction he will go. The problem is of only _darshan_ _moha_. With _darshan_ _moha_ , no one in the world is free. Now _darshan_ _mohaniya_ is gone. What is the problem now? 'I have become the Self ( _Shuddhatma_ )'. But the answer is, 'No, _charitra_ _moha_ still remains, does it not? Effects of past life still remain, do they not?'

**Questioner** : Only _kashaya_ (anger-pride-deceit-greed) come into _charitra_ _moha_. Does it not?

**Dadashri** : No, it is not like that. _Charitra_ _moha_ contains the result of past knowledge (karma effect), nothing else.

## Charitra _moha_ in the Akram path

There are two kinds of _moha_ : _darshan_ _moha_ and _charitra_ _moha_. _Darshan_ _moha_ means just by looking or seeing, one will be overcome with _moha_ (illusion, illusory attachment). This _moha_ will arise by simply seeing or listening to something. And the other _moha_ , _charitra_ _moha_ , what is it? For 'Us' _moha_ will not arise by looking, but it is there without Our desire. Even though it is not Our wish, that _moha_ will keep arising. All that is considered as _charitra_ _mohaniya_. Anger will arise even when You do not desire it, greed will arise even when You do not desire it, deceit will arise even when You do not desire it, and ego will arise even when You do not desire it. Does that happen to You against 'Your desire'? It will come even if You do not like it; that is called _charitra_ _mohaniya_. What we call as 'discharge'; all that is _charitra_ _moha_.

**Questioner** : So, the _moha_ that arises after attaining Gnan, that is indeed called _charitra_ _moha_ , is it not?

**Dadashri** : Yes, that is all called _charitra_ - _moha_. Therefore rising _moha_ is gone, setting _moha_ remains.

_Charitra_ _moha_ means, say if this man has a habit of lying. Now what happens is that after attaining Gnan, he ends up telling lies. Then He 'knows' that a mistake has happened; that is called _charitra_ _moha_. Through which _moha_ did he end up telling lies? The answer is, through _charitra_ _moha_. Through the Gnan that has been given to You, You have now become _Shuddhatma_ , what else is it that remains? It is _charitra_ _moha_. Settle that with equanimity ( _sambhavey_ _nikal_ ), meaning with _sainyam_. That is all, nothing else.

_Charitra_ _mohaniya_ remains; You 'see' even that and therefore Your's is _samyak_ _charitra_ (conduct as the Self).

Who has this _charitra_ _mohaniya_? Here in our Akram path, there is _charitra_ _mohaniya_ for sure but there in the _kramic_ path, there is doership in the _charitra_ _mohaniya_. In the _kramic_ path, there is doership right till the end, till the next life. One is to purify the ego there. There one has to progress by purying the ego. So however much _charitra_ _mohaniya_ there is, there is that much ego too. So they have to remove the _charitra_ _mohaniya_ , You do not have to do that. 'You' (the Self) 'see' the _charitra_ _mohaniya_ , so You come into _samyak_ _charitra_ (conduct as the Self). They even have to 'do' the discharge. All that, the _kramic_ path, is a path of terrible difficulties.

'We' have said it, have 'we' not? That which can never happen in millions of life times, happens here within an hour. Therefore, get your work done. This opportunity (connection with the Gnani Purush of the Akram Path) is not going to come again and again. Not even for a minute is this connection with Dada going to happen again and again. Everything else may happen.

In the _kramic_ path, they too say that theirs is _charitra_ _moha_. I explained to them, that they cannot say that. They then say they are renunciates ( _tyaagi_ ). Renunciates they maybe, but their _moha_ is strong, they have the _moha_ for renouncing and these worldly people have _moha_ for acquiring ( _grahan_ ). But they are both _moha_ , are they not? Now, the Self does not renounce anything nor does it acquire anything. So this is all _moha_. Now, outside, they talk about _charitra_ _moha_ , but no one has ever seen what _charitra_ _moha_ truly is.

**Questioner** : They do not have the experience of it.

**Dadashri** : When they have not 'seen' it, how can they have the 'experience' of it? Now, people consider real _moha_ , as _charitra_ _moha_. 'We' showed You _charitra_ _moha_ , did 'we' not? 'You' had not 'seen' it till now. No one can 'see' _charitra_ _moha_ , until the doership ( _kartapanu_ ) stops. In their worldly interactions, people make statements in the worldly language that 'now ours is _charitra_ _moha_ ' 'it is like this', 'it is like that'; all that is worldly ( _bhautik_ ). Only When one stops 'doing' karma (charging karma), is when _charitra moha_ remains. Then the charging stops, so only discharge remains.

No one gave me the right answer about _charitra_ _moha_ , but it took me a long time to find out what the Lord meant by _charitra_ _moha_? What kind of _moha_ is it? Then through experience, I came to know that it is _vartan moha_ (illusion in conduct). Unworthy conduct is unworthy _moha_ and worthy conduct is worthy _moha_. All that is a _moha_ of a kind. One will say, 'but this _moha_ , it cannot be considered _moha_ '. The answer is, 'No. This has come into result, effect.

As long as milk and yogurt are separate, there is no interaction between them. Adding yogurt to milk will not turn the milk into yogurt right away. But by the morning, the result has come; it becomes yogurt. So, this is a resultant _moha_. Only after a search, this would be discovered, no? Otherwise, is this an easy matter?

## Mahatmas' charitra _moha_

There is only one thing, not two. People of the world have _mohaniya_ , and 'We' have _charitra_ _mohaniya_ , that is the only difference. _Charitra_ _moha_ means – with the Gnan that I have given You, I have given You the Vision that 'all this is a wrong vision, with which one will keep on binding life after life, and will not attain _moksha_ '. Now Your vision has turned towards the Self ( _atma sanmukha_ ). That wrong vision has been removed for You, so _darshan_ _moha_ is gone. _Moha_ has two parts; _moha_ has two 'sons'. One is the wrong vision, and the other is the conduct ( _vartan_ ). Now, You only have the conduct, the wrong vision is gone. New conduct will not arise. The old conduct is _charitra_ _moha_. Whatever discharge _vyavasthit_ brings about, it is all _charitra_ _moha_ ; right or wrong (good or bad)! No matter what you end up doing; regardless of whether it is the best of the best or the worst of the worst, You should not lose the awareness that 'I am _Shuddhatma_ '. Because: 'Dada has given me the _Shuddhatma_ state!' Now all this which is _vyavasthit_ ; all that _charitra_ _moha_ , has to be settled. When that _moha_ leaves, _moksha_ happens.

What I call as _charitra_ _moha_ is, now that You have attained the Gnan and you are wearing good clothes, or you comb your hair nicely, will people not question, 'Chandubhai, you have attained Gnan from Dada so why do you comb your hair in this stylish way?' Is combing your hair not a _moha_? You cannot deny that, can You? And they are not wrong when they say that, are they? It is _moha_ , is it not? But it is _charitra_ _moha_. _Charitra_ _moha_ means it is effective _moha_. Not _moha_ (causal). The causes have been stopped. But will effects not remain? Effective _moha_ means it will be resolved, without fail. New causes will not be bound. Then freedom ( _moksha_ ) happens. _Charitra_ _moha_ is not Your _moha_ of today. It is the fruit (effect) of what you had done (cause) in your past life. So all the _mahatmas_ have _charitra_ _moha_. Now, what will people in your town look at? 'Huh! Some great _Shuddhatma_ he has become and yet he is very shrewd about counting his money!' Hey you! If not shrewd then should he throw his money away instead? Would he not be considered mad by the world? One should be wise in worldly interactions.

Regarding these clothes I am wearing, if I am going somewhere and someone were to take them away from me, then there is no problem and if I have the clothes even then there is no problem, but it is _charitra_ _moha_. That is not My _moha_. This effective _moha_ that is remaining; that makes people think that there is no change in any of you, but I know that You are not to be reprimanded. I have the key. I have the key to all you do, as long as you follow My Agnas. I do not have the key, if you do not follow the Agnas. For the One who follows them, for Him there is _moksha_ in two-three, or even one more life time. I say this with a guarantee. And _moksha_ has happened right here. The One who follows 'Our' Agnas will not experience any worries, any anger-pride-deceit-greed.

The anger-pride-deceit-greed that happens in other people, happens in you all too, but it happens as effect, not as 'cause'. So what 'we' say is that it is not even anger-pride-deceit-greed. Only if there is 'cause' it is considered anger-pride-deceit-greed.

The tuber of _moha_ is gone, that is why 'we' have called it _kshayak samkit_. Now _charitra_ _moha_ remains. The karma that have solidified have become ready to give fruits. That is why food and drink comes to us. Otherwise it would not be so. Then if we take away the _charitra_ _moha_ tomorrow, what will you eat and drink? This is all _charitra_ _moha_. What we eat, what we drink, brushing our teeth; the whole day _charitra_ _moha_ is being used. It is called _charitra_ _moha_!

_Vartan_ _moha_ means _charitra_ _moha_. What is that? 'We' 'purify' the _parmanus_ (subatomic particles) of _moha_ , and send them off. So then it becomes _kshin moha_ (exhausted, finished _moha_ ). Whatever _charitra_ _moha_ goes away, one moves forwards towards _kshinmoha_ by that much. One moves towards finished _moha_ ( _kshinmoha_ ). Where is the train headed to?' 'To the station of _kshina moha_!' 'Where did it leave from?' One would say that it left from the station by the name of _jitmoha_ _jina_ ('Knower' of the con _moha_ that is conquered _,_ the Self). 'He' is now starting to win the _moha_. That will take him to the _kshina moha_ station. He will have become a God then. _Moha_ has been destroyed. The twelfth _gunathanu_ (spiritual level) has been attained forever. Lord Mahavir's state was that of _kshinmoha jina_

When one becomes _Shuddhatma_ , He will have the awareness of 'I am definitely _Shuddhatma_ '. One may ask, 'So then are you not Chandubhai?' He will say, 'I am Chandubhai, but by worldly interaction.' It is only for the purpose of worldly interactions; that means the twenty-five kinds of charge _moha_ are gone. Then remains, _charitra_ _moha_. _Charitra_ _moha_ remains even in _kshina moha_ state. It is called as _kshina moha_. Even the twelfth _gunathanu_ (spiritual level) has _charitra_ _moha_ in it. _Charitra_ _moha_ does not end except in _keval Gnan_.

## This is the fruit of the sown seed!

Did You understand what _charitra_ _moha_ is? If someone is giving a donation and you tell him, 'Why are you doing this senseless thing?' He might say, 'I am not going to do it'. Or he says, 'I am doing the right thing', that is _charitra_ _moha_. If someone is scolding his son and you say, 'Why are you scolding him unnecessarily?' and he replies, 'No, he deserves to be scolded'; that is _charitra_ _moha_.

**Questioner** : He feeds it, he encourages it?

**Dadashri** : That is not feeding the mistake; it is a kind of a _moha_. 'I have to have eight hours of sleep', that is _charitra_ _moha_. There should not be such thing as 'I have to have...' in the mind, there should not be any such decision. Whatever time someone wakes you up is correct. Settle everything with equanimity, but whatever benefit you get out of it; it is correct. You cannot get rid of it completely, can You? You know that there are still two-three more life times pending, so this is all _charitra_ _moha_ if one understands it. All these activities are just happening. When, 'I am Chandubhai' goes, it means _darshan_ _moha_ is gone too. Therefore, charge _moha_ stops, only _charitra_ _moha_ remains. Whatever discharge _moha_ leaves without Your being in _moha_ that much _samadhi_ (bliss of the Self) will be experienced within.

**Questioner** : I am not able to accept the filled stock of karma ( _bharelo maal_ ) coming out.

**Dadashri** : What can be done about it, since it has been filled? You don't like onions right now but because you used to like them, that is why you brought them with you, right? That is why now it is not liked. That is why the Lord has called it truly _charitra_ _moha_. So you have no choice but suffer it! The filled stock will come out for sure. But still the inner nagging of 'not this!' 'What is happening is wrong' occurs. The body will give effect, no?

**Questioner** : Many things are such that I do not like them. I say something, I end up saying something but then I feel 'It would have been better if I had not said that', but it gets said.

**Dadashri** : Yes. That too is _charitra_ _moha_. That is why we do not scold anyone. Because it is _charitra_ _moha_ , we do not scold anyone. This _moha_ of his is not truly His _moha_.

## The activity of mind, speech and body is charitra _moha_

**Questioner:** Since it is _charitra_ _moha_ \- are there three divisions, _charitra_ _moha_ of the mind, _charitra_ _moha_ of the speech and _charitra_ _moha_ of the body?

**Dadashri:** As many divisions as can be made, there is _charitra_ _moha_ in all of them. Whatever one's conduct, it is all due entirely to _charitra_ _moha_. Where there is _moha_ , restlessness ( _chanchadta_ ) will arise there, otherwise restlessness does not arise. So if you go out for fun, you go out to eat; it is all _charitra_ _moha_.

**Questioner** : Any actions carried out collectively by the mind, speech and body.

**Dadashri** : It is all _charitra_ _moha_. Yes, but only after Self-realization.

**Questioner** : 'I am _Shuddhatma_ ' – after that?

**Dadashri** : Yes. 'I am _Shuddhatma_ ' and 'all this is not mine'. Only this _charitra_ _moha_ remains. And this _charitra_ _moha_ is not Yours, You are _Shuddhatma_. For You it is completely gone. But this Chandubhai does have _charitra_ _moha_ left. You have to understand it. _Charitra_ _moha_ is left in his worldly interaction. If Chandubhai gets irritated with someone, that too is _charitra_ _moha_. Why is he frugul? Because of greed. Even that is _charitra_ _moha_. When mistakes ( _dosh_ ) happen, that is _charitra_ _moha_ and when greed happens, that too is _charitra_ _moha_. Everything is considered as greed ( _lobha_ ). Both, the mistakes ( _dosh_ ) and frugality are considered as greed. This person has greed for errors ( _dosh_ ) and the other person has greed for frugality.

If that lady is wearing something nice, it is not something that should be criticized. It is simply _charitra_ _moha_. Right now even if she does not like it, she has to wear it; she has no choice because it is _charitra_ _moha_. The account is from the past and so it will have to be paid off, no? There is no objection in wearing nice things. This is just _charitra_ _moha_. But if there is inner improvement, then if there is something simple to wear, even that will do.

## Settle discharge _moha_ with equanimity

The Vignan (science) that I have given is such that it will separate the body and the Self, so your vision that was wrong (under illusion) has become right (without illusion). And as long as you had the wrong vision, till then you had _moha_ and karma were being bound. Now 'You' might say, 'I still have the _moha_. I wear good clothes, I like to wear a watch, I want glasses, I want this and I want that'. That is all a _charitra_ _moha_ , it is a discharge _moha_. _Charitra_ _moha_ means that, one will no longer have in his mind 'I want to enjoy this again and again'. So settle whatever comes along. Eat less if the food is salty and eat well if it is good, but settle it with equanimity. Do you settle everything with equanimity ( _sambhavey_ _nikaal_ )? That is enough; there is nothing like it, is there?

**Questioner** : Right now is _charitra_ _mohaniya_ decreasing in the clothes or is it increasing?

**Dadashri** : It continues to fall off; it is exhausting. _Charitra_ _moha_ means discharge _moha_. Let it fall off on its own. That which is mandatory for the body, is not called _charitra_ _moha_. Mandatory means food, water etc., - that cannot be called as _moha_. But with tea; when you think about tea early in the morning that 'I haven't had tea yet'; that which feels like bondage ( _bandhanroop_ ) is called heavy _charitra_ _moha_.

Like that, the charging _moha_ has stopped. Only discharge _moha_ remains. When the time comes for it to end, it will finish. For those who have not taken this Gnan, they have two type of _moha_. Charge _moha_ and discharge _moha_. Twenty-five types of charge _moha_ and twenty-five types of discharge _moha_. Our sages and ascetics, they have renounced their wife and children but even then, they have twenty-five types of charge _moha_ and twenty-five types of discharge _moha_.

This Vignan of ours is just this much. There is so much _moha_ ; how many kinds of _moha_ you all live in? Just look at the _moha_ in your dinner plate, the _moha_ in your clothes; look at your _moha_ in your apartment. If someone who is not Self-realized, an old acquaintance were to come and see they would say to you, 'Hey you! Why are you talking about _moksha_?' And amidst all that we have this Vitarag _vignan_ , the Vignan of the liberated Ones, Akram Vignan has helped You sail through all that; that is a wonder is it not? It calls the entire body as a 'file'.

In their Gnan ( _mahatmas_ ) this body remains as a 'file'. How blessed and praiseworthy are they! That Gnan which calls the body as a file is praiseworthy. Despite living in so much _moha_ , they are calling the body as a file ! Now tell me, is _moha_ likely to remain there? What a Vignan this is! That is why I have said; settle all this. Eat and drink whatever there is, we are not putting any restrictions there. Eat mangos and all that, even juice the mangos and enjoy them, but do not believe 'there is happiness in this'. 'This is not my thing!' and 'I am eating not by choice'. The Self has no need for food at all!

When you write books that too, is _charitra_ _moha_. Because if someone takes it away, _moha_ (reaction of the illusion) arises, but You, do not like that _moha_. Even people listening to _satsang_ here, is _charitra_ _moha_. There is _moha_ in it of some kind; even coming here to _satsang_ is _charitra_ _moha_. There is no problem with _kriya_ (activity external or internal), but there is a problem with 'having _moha'_ in _kriya_. There cannot be any objection to _kriya_. Whether you chew your food over and over again or you don't chew your food, there is no problem with that. If you quickly swallow bitter medicine there is no problem and there is no problem with it, if you do it slowly. But there is _moha_ for it. He will say, 'no matter how bitter the medicine, I will drink it slowly' so then even that is _charitra_ _moha_ and if someone says, 'I am not able to take bitter medicine', that too is _charitra_ _moha_. This _charitra_ _moha_ is one type of _moha_.

## Charitra _moha_ is purified through penance

**Questioner** : Is it also _charitra_ _moha_ when we ask questions?

**Dadashri** : So then which other kind of _moha_ is it? The one who is _nirmohi_ , one without _moha_ , will not ask questions. Why would a _nirmohi_ ask questions? The one with _charitra_ _moha_ will ask. But _charitra_ _moha_ will not discharge if he does not ask questions. So you should ask. It will bring about a resolution when you ask. The filled stock of karma will come out. That is why everyday we tell everyone to ask questions. Take it all out by asking over and over again.

**Questioner** : We went on a pilgrimage; is that all _charitra_ _moha_?

**Dadashri** : Then what else? The pilgrimages done before taking Gnan was your _moha_. 'I am Chandubhai and I am a pilgrim.' Now You have become _Shuddhatma_ and you going on a pilgrimage, is _charitra_ _moha_. What is the purpose of doing pilgrimage, now? The answer is You will have to dissipate the stock that was stored within. That baggage is very vast and dense; you will have to 'sell' (settle) it off, no?

**Questioner** : I am fond of reading, it is _charitra_ _moha_ and so it will have to be completed. But otherwise after this Gnan, I feel no need to read.

**Dadashri** : Yes, all that is _charitra_ _moha_ of reading. Some people do not have _moha_ for reading; some have _moha_ for reading newspapers. Some people like reading spy novels and fictions; all the remaing _kriya_ _charitra_ _moha_. 'Good' or 'bad' are values placed by the society; it is all done by the intellect. There is no such thing as good or bad according to the Lord. It is all one thing: _charitra_ _moha_. When you give to charity, it is _charitra_ _moha_ and when you take charity, it is _charitra_ _moha_. If the tea has no sugar and one accepts it, it is _charitra_ _moha_ and it is also _charitra_ _moha_ if you agitated with it. This is all so because there is no involvement of the Self, in it. The Self remains completely aloof from everything.

**Questioner** : That which was tolerated; does it come under penance ( _tapa_ )?

**Dadashri** : Yes, penance was done. _Gnan_ - _darshan_ - _charitra_ and _tapa_ (knowledge, vision or understanding, conduct and penance; as the Self). If one gets agitated, it does not count as penance.

**Questioner** : At that time, He purified _charitra_ _moha_ through Gnan, is that so, Dadaji?

**Dadashri** : Yes, it becamed purified whereas the other one, who reacted with agitation, will have to be purify. When he purified it, he accomplished two tasks whereas the one who became agitated, he will have to purify it. And if it is not purified, then the account will come with him again.

Talks in which there is no Atma, no Self; talks that are not related to the Atma, are all _charitra_ _moha_. The one who talks has _charitra_ _moha_ and the one who listens also has _charitra_ _moha_. Did You understand _charitra_ _moha_? Good thoughts or bad thoughts – it is all _charitra_ _moha_.

You used to say ' _charitra_ _moha_ ' everyday, didn't you? If You remember the word _charitra_ _moha_ alone, it is more than enough. People will say what kind of _moha_ is it that you are wearing such clothes, wearing nicely ironed clothes? People will say that won't they? They will speak as they see and You have to 'know' that 'this too is _moha_ for sure', but You have to know what kind of _moha_ it is. _Charitra_ _moha_ means the _moha_ people can see in our conduct. 'Why are you in a hurry?' they will ask. But there is _moha_ , no? The reason is that man owes you money and he is not giving it back to you and he is leaving, so why is there a change in your behavior?' The answer is: there is _charitra_ _moha_.

## Settle charitra _moha_ with awakened awareness

After attaining Gnan the _moha_ that is visible; people will say, 'oh ho ho! Chandubhai, you have so much _moha_. You enjoy watching movies, flying kites and you have other _moha_ '. 'We' do not call it _moha_ ; 'we' know that it is _charitra_ _moha_ that will settle. But awareness ( _jagruti_ ) has to be maintained over it. _Charitra_ _moha_ cannot be stopped but one has to maintain awareness over it, no? How much of it can be stopped? Whatever You try to stop, that much will stop. If despite this it does not stop, let it happen, but You have to maintain awareness.

**Questioner** : You said that 'I' should have awareness ( _jagurti_ ), what is that?

**Dadashri** : Even when you are flying a kite, You have to maintain 'what I am doing is wrong; it should not be like this'.

**Questioner** : I should not do it willingly and happily, is that so?

**Dadashri** : Chandubhai will do it willingly and happily but even then You, should have the awareness that 'this should not be so.'

**Questioner** : I have to 'know' whatever he is doing; is that called awareness?

**Dadashri** : Yes, that is called awareness. Awareness means He will write down the entire history of everything that Chandubhai did.

Thermometer is there within for sure

The Self within is like a thermometer. One can 'know' whether the fever has gone up or down. Can 'You' not 'know' where your tendencies ( _daanat_ ) lie?

**Questioner** : I am able 'know' that . I am able to know it when all the tubers within sprout.

**Dadashri** : Not the sprouting tubers. Let the tubers sprout; when they sprout, it is a discharge but what kind of desire is there within? 'I want this, in this way'; that beggary ( _bheekha_ ) is still there within. There is no objection with material things; but there is an objection to beggary. Does beggary remain within? 'You' will immediately know beggary.

**Questioner** : Beggary and _charitra_ _moha_. I am not able to tell the difference between the two.

**Dadashri** : _Charitra_ _moha_ is _nikali_ , that which is settling; it is a discharge and beggary gives rise to everything within. For beggary _upayoga_ (attention of the self) is always there. The entire _upayoga_ will get sucked up in beggary whereas in _charitra_ _moha_ there is applied awareness ( _upayoga_ _jagruti_ \- the Self is aware).

**Questioner** : You said that certain type of _charitra_ _moha_ is such that it 'blows away' (over rides) even the Gnan; what kind of _charitra_ _moha_ is that?

**Dadashri** : Yes. That kind of _charitra_ _moha_ is such that it sets everything ablaze. It will 'get rid' of the entire Gnan by pushing it away. It is only the _moha_ for sexuality that does that, not any other kind. All the _kashayas_ that arise have all arisen out of _vishaya_ – sexuality.

## The guarantee of Akram Vignan

**Questioner:** When the Self is attained; the qualities of straightforwardness ( _rujuta_ ) and pleasantness and softness ( _mruduta_ ) in speech arises in the relative self. Now, even after Gnan, one's conduct is such that it makes me wonder 'why does he have so much harshness and cruelty?' If someone asks him, he says it is the stored stock of karma that is coming out; it is _charitra_ _moha_ that is coming out. So that is why it happens. So where is _mruduta-rujuta_ at such times?

**Dadashri** : _Mruduta-rujuta_ is there in it for sure.

**Questioner** : Yes, I do not understand how, please explain that to me.

**Dadashri** : His conduct may be harsh but there is _mruduta-rujata_ within; this much guarantee, 'I' give you. Such is this Akram Vignan.

## It is charitra _moha_ even when one makes excuses

**Questioner:** But then, will some _mahatma_ not make excuses by saying 'this is my _charitra_ _moha_ ' 'this is my discharge'? Will he not make a wrong protection of his mistake in this manner?

**Dadashri** : When He 'does' that, that too is _charitra_ _moha_. But if he changes his ways of progressing methodically entirely, if he uproots this Gnan that has been given to him, then he is not considered as being in the path. If he uproots this Gnan of 'Ours' and he does not follow the five Agnas; if he does not remain in the Agnas by fifty percent, then it is all over for him. Here even if One remains in the Agnas by fifty percent, it is more than enough. Thereafter, whatever mischief and hurtful happens, it is all _charitra_ _moha_.

**Questioner** : So that too is called _charitra_ _moha_?

**Dadashri** : 'You' can call is so for sure with pleasure! You can call it _charitra_ _moha_ without any reservation. But don't say this to anyone. This, You should not tell others. You can tell me. Others will discourage you and whatever stillness You have attained, they will ruin it. If You tell me, then I will explain it all to You as to what it is.

**Questioner** : But it is a fact, is it not? This falls under _charitra_ _moha_ only, no? What else does it fall in?

**Dadashri** : It is verily discharge in those instances. There is no interference from You, the Self in it, is there? If You interefere with it, then you are responsible. What is happening here? "It happens" is what is happening here. _Charitra_ _moha_ means "it happens". There is no intereference in this from You; 'do it this way' or 'do it that way' – You do not interefere with it in this way. When all the circumstances naturally come together, work happens. There is no interference in this on 'Your' part. No influence of any kind of 'Yours' will work in this matter whatsoever! For You, the entire doership is gone. So how can You be held accountable? Therefore there is no need for anyone of You ( _mahatmas_ ) to be perplexed. Come and ask 'Me' if there is a lot of confusion in the mind.

## Freedom from charitra _moha_ by discharging with equanimity

This path is one of awe and wonder. So You should get your work done quickly by persuing it intensely. Now whatever other desires ( _ichha_ ) arise within; You should make them bland in whatever way You can and that is all _charitra_ _moha_. Desire ( _ichha_ ) is not truly _moha_ ; it is _charitra_ _moha_. Even the Lord had _charitra_ _moha_. From the time He left home till the time He attained _keval Gnan_ ; it was all _charitra_ _moha_. When you eat _vedhami_ , (stuffed sweet flatbread) and _jalebi_ (crispy fried sweets soaked in sugar syrup), 'I' would not come and object. I know that it is Your _charitra_ _moha_ and that You are settling it. 'You' should settle it with equanimity so that it does not come back again. Whatever that has come right now is _vyavasthit_ , if it has not come that is _vyavasthit_ too. If the _vedhami_ is not cooked properly, it is _vyavasthit_ ; if it is perfect, it is _vyavasthit_. Everything is _vyavasthit_ , no?

Here when 'we' settle with equanimity the _charitra_ _moha_ ; that is liberation ( _mukti_ ). There is nothing else. Never before has one heard of such an easy path of liberation; that is how easy this path is. Nothing is to be renounced. There is no _bhanjghad_ (break or make), _dakho_ (interference) or _dakhal_ (interference reaction) of any kind.

**Questioner** : It is also _moha_ to go to _satsang,_ but it is _charitra_ _moha_ as You have told us, but even this _moha_ like all other _moha_ has to go, right?

**Dadashri** : 'You' have to 'see' how this _moha_ is going away. Chandubhai may be eating, drinking, nagging; 'You' have to 'see' all that _moha_ and thus that _moha_ will go away. If You do _dakho_ interefere with 'why did you make this so salty?' then You made that _moha_ a little sticky again. 'You' should not interfere; just keep 'seeing'. It is _moha_ for sure but it will go away through 'seeing'; it will vanish only through 'seeing'. _Charitra_ _moha_ means discharging _moha_. Discharge _moha_ means the control is not in 'our' hands. It will go away on its own, provided You remain _vitarag_.

**Questioner** : But ultimately _charitra_ _moha_ will have to go away, right?

**Dadashri** : It is going away for sure. _Charitra_ _moha_ is going away. All these files are of only _charitra_ _moha_. Once the files have been settled; full government is established. So it is not that it should go away, or that it needs to be taken out; it is going away for sure.

## Dada's charitra (conduct) is without charitra _moha_!

'We' are staying with You for up to ten days in order to show You what _charitra_ _moha_ is. You tell me, 'Dada I have run out of toothpaste', so then Dada will say, 'it does not matter'. You say 'Dada I don't have a toothbrush for you', and Dada will say, 'it will do'. 'Dada I only have your tongue scraper for you ', Dada will say, 'it will do'.

**Questioner** : What removes _charitra_ _moha_?

**Dadashri** : It will go away through understanding it. Once You understand it, when You put _upayoga_ (applied awareness) on it, it will go away.

**Questioner** : Complete non-insistence ( _niragrahata_ )?

**Dadashri** : No. _Charitra_ _moha_ is a different thing altogether. Non-insistence is fine. That word is different and if You undertstand this 'non-insistence' through the vision of _charitra_ _moha_ , then You will 'know' that there is _moha_ in it. Insistence is a different thing. Insistence is a part of ego and this is _moha_ , which can be 'known' directly. 'We' can directly 'know' that one has illusory attachment ( _murchha_ ) for it.

If you tell me, 'Dada, there is more hot water, there is not enough cold water', and Dada will say, 'it will do'. 'Dada the water is not hot enough, it is cool,' and Dada will say, 'it will do'. 'Dada there is only cold water', and Dada will say, 'it will do'. That is why 'we' stay up to ten days with You all, so 'see' the _charitra_ (conduct as the Self) of the Gnani Purush for ten days. See the _charitra_ without _charitra_ _mohaniya_. That is why we stay together, but what can anyone do if one does not understand?

If someone puts one _rotli_ (thin flatbread) in my plate and tells me, 'Dada there is only one _rotli._ You will have to eat only rice', and if they were to take the rotli back, 'we' will say, 'it does not matter. It is fine'. And if they were to take away the rice and tell me to eat only _rotli_ , then I will say, 'very well, it will do'. When can one say, 'it will do'? Only when illusory attached ( _murchha_ ) for it is completely gone, can one say, 'it will do'. Not a single insistence works there, and _murchha_ for rice is gone...

If they are serving _karela_ (bitter gourds preparation) and even before it is served on the plate, the mind becomes pleased but if it is taken away and the mind becomes agitated, then that is called _charitra_ _moha_. If she puts the _karela_ curry on the table but then she takes it away, then 'we' say, 'it will do', but with others, when it comes back on the table, they will say, 'I don't want it now!' 'I don't want it', is _charitra_ _moha_. It is due to the _moha_ that the speech comes out like that. If the _moha_ is not there, then there is no problem with whatever one does and only the 'vision' of 'Knower-Seer' ( _gnata-drashta bhaav_ ) prevails.

_Charitra_ _moha_ remains for You. It is not the kind that will sow seeds for a new worldly life but as long as it is there, it will not let the bliss of the Self arise.

'I' wear a coat and a hat; is that a fault from the perspective of karma? Someone may say, 'He is a Gnani Purush; an complete Gnani'. People will say, 'I accept that, but he wears a coat and a hat!' Nothing in this world is without _moha_ , but this is _charitra_ _moha_. It will not sow seeds of karma. But in appearances for the world, it looks like _moha_. 'We' do accept that, 'it is our _charitra_ _moha_ '. When we say, 'welcome! Come and sit here' to this person; that is our _charitra_ _moha_ too.

Do people not say 'this Gnani of yours; wears a ring on his finger! Does anyone wear a ring without _moha_?' If they tell me that, I have to agree that 'sir it is _moha_ '. I cannot deny it. Who would wear jewellery without _moha_? Would anyone do so? Who would part his hair neatly without _moha_? Who would shave without _moha_? Who would remove his moustache without _moha_? Nothing can be done without _moha_ , can it? Moha of one kind or other is there. But it is _charitra_ _moha_.

You should sit where people tell you to sit and if they tell you to sit else where, then sit elsewhere. Will it take eight people to tell you before you move? Become straight forward ( _sarad_ ). Here when 'we' sit on this stage; that too is _charitra_ _moha_.

Did you understand the meaning of _charitra_ _moha_? Today there is no _moha_ for it of any kind. Even if someone takes it away, there is no problem. If someone were to take away this coat, even then there is no problem. But the coat is there for a fact and he (A. M. Patel) wears it and he even puts it for washing. Someone will ask, 'Sir, why did you put it for washing? What problem did you have with it?' and the answer is 'no it does not look good with people; people will comment, 'look his clothes are not proper, he does not take care of them''. So it can become a cause to upset people. Our _charitra_ _moha_ becomes a cause for upsetting people; that is what it is. So there is no problem with _charitra_ _moha_ whatsoever.

These are all different _avastha_ (situations) and in that there are no new causes but the _charitra_ _moha_ is there one hundred percent and no one can deny that. _Charitra_ _moha_ such as this can only be in a Gnani. No one else will have _charitra_ _moha_ like this. Everyone in the _kramik_ path has very heavy _moha_ ( _ghadha moha_ ); they have _avaghadha_ _moha_ , _moha_ that never budges.

People ask me, 'if you are a complete Gnani, then why do you have this _moha_? Why do you comb your hair in a certain style?' So inorder to explain it to others from the worldly perspective, I have to give them the answer that it is my _charitra_ _moha_. From the _nischaya_ perspective, the real perspective, I am correct, I am complete but in the worldly life, I will have to give an explanation. All these people have _charitra_ _moha_ for sure. I too have _charitra_ _moha_.

**Questioner:** In what way do You have _charitra_ _moha_?

**Dadashri** : All these people ( _mahatmas_ ) know that Dada is not the owner of this body. But if someone in the neighborhood asks me, 'are you not the owner of this body?' then I have to say, 'yes, I am', otherwise they will not understand the proof and they will get confused. All that is called _charitra_ _moha_. And it is charita _moha_ that I am wearing a ring. I am wearing these clothes, am I not? When will _charitra_ _moha_ go away? When _keval Gnan_ arises. Until then it remains.

As long as _charitra_ _moha_ is there, One will not attain final liberation. After _charitra_ _moha_ comes to an end, _keval Gnan_ will arise, so it will remain for a short while and then liberation will come. Lord Mahavir had _charitra_ _moha_ until he attained _keval Gnan_.

**Questioner** : Does _keval Gnan_ arise after all the _charitra_ _moha_ finishes?

**Dadashri** : Yes, only then will _keval Gnan_ arise.

**Questioner** : After that comes the role of an ascetic – _sadhuvesh_?

**Dadashri** : Thereafter there is no role or dress code at all. Therafter You cannot call one even a _digambari_ (the naked one). That 'State' transcends the state of _swetambar_ - _digamber_ (white clothes-no clothes). That State is completely different. That is not role at all. All activitiy of the body are all _charitra_ _moha_.

**Questioner** : So if someone is giving discourses, is that considered as _charitra_ _moha_?

**Dadashri** : Everything. Not just the giving of discourse but also listening to the discourse; that too is _charitra_ _moha_. When I impart spiritual knowledge, it too is _charitra_ _moha_. When I give Gnan; that too is _charitra_ _moha_.

**Questioner** : So which _moha_ do 'we' have? The _moha_ of listening?

**Dadashri** : That too is _charitra_ _moha_.

**Questioner** : When You do the special gracing ceremony ( _vidhi_ ) _,_ is that _charitra_ _moha_ also?

**Dadashri** : Yes, everything is _charitra_ _moha_ and when You do the _vidhi_ ; that is _charitra_ _moha_ also.

**Questioner** : The _bhav_ that You have that 'we' all gradually move towards ultimate liberation, what is that called? Is that Your _moha_? Is it called _raag_ , attachment?

**Dadashri** : It is like this; this is called _charitra_ _moha_. It is _moha_ for sure, no? Without _moha_ , who at age 78 would take a flight in a wheel chair to come here?

**Questioner** : Dada's _charitra_ _moha_!

**Dadashri** : 'Your's' is _charitra_ _moha_ and mine is _charitra_ _moha_ also!

**Questioner** : What you say is correct. 'You have _charitra_ _moha_ and I have _charitra_ _moha_ , also'. But there is a difference between the two, no?

**Dadashri** : Of course there is a difference! You want to go to the bank and count your twenty thousand; you want to go to the Oberoi Hotel for tea; do I have anything like that? The other is _charitra_ _moha_ with a burden, a lot of burden. We do not have a burden of 'our' _charitra_ _moha_ ; it is light! But otherwise it is _moha_ for sure. Would anyone suffer without _moha_? Anything can be called as _charitra_ _moha_ but what kind of _moha_? _Charitra_ _moha_! It is _moha_ , which does not give rise to bondage of new _moha_ and one, which completely discharges. It is the same with You too. But You have a burden of it; that burden lingers along. You have to deposit the twenty thousand rupees and then you have to take it out again. And if someone wants to borrow twenty thousand, then there is a problem.

**Questioner** : Dada you called it _charitra_ _moha_ , but is that not considered as the Gnani's intent of compassion ( _karuna bhaav_ )?

**Dadashri** : It is _karuna_ _bhaav_ , for sure. But it is a _moha_ of a kind.

**Questioner** : Even in _karuna_ _bhaav_ there is _charitra_ _moha_.

**Dadashri** : Without _moha_ , no one would exist, would they?

**Questioner** : Dada, even the Tirthankaras have the intent for salvation; so is that too the Tirthankara's _charitra_ _moha_ or not?

**Dadashri** : It is all _charitra_ _moha_ ; before they attain _keval Gnan_. Up until the twelfth _goonthanu_ (the twelfth stage of spiritual progress), it is all _charitra_ _moha_. And when _charitra_ _moha_ finishes, there will be _keval Gnan –_ absolute Knowledge.

**Questioner** : Then they would not have any intent of any kind...

**Dadashri** : No. Thereafter there is _deshna_ (eternal liberating speech of the Arihant). Now if someone were to come before the Lord and that person was headed for a life in hell, then the Lord would not tell him 'this is what is to become of you', because He would not interefere in anyway. There is no _raag_ (attachment) towards one or _dwesh_ (abhorrence) towards another; there is nothing like that.

**Questioner** : But to follow Dadajis' Agnas, does that go into _charitra_ _moha_?

**Dadashri** : No. That is _purushartha_ of _pragnya shakti_ (spiritual endeavor of the liberating energy of the Self). That does not fall under _charitra_ _moha_. _Charitra_ _moha_ will not let him do it; that can happen. If some very heavy duty files arise for someone, he will go astray. It will make him fall for a while and it will take him a while to get back on track and if his entire _charitra_ _moha_ is straightforward, it will let him follow the Agnas in a very straightforward manner.

## Agnas of the Gnani Purush destroy ghati karma

**Questioner:** The enlightened vision as the Self ( _darshan_ ) that 'I' now have, dissipates all the _charitra_ _moha_?

**Dadashri** : If 'One' 'sees' through the pure vision ( _shuddha_ _darshan_ ), then the _charitra_ _moha_ will dissipate.

**Questioner** : What I mean to ask is that this _darshan_ (pure vision) is the method of dispelling _charitra_ _moha_ , right?

**Dadashri** : It is verily with _darshan_. But when can we call it _darshan_? It is when You follow 'our' five Agnas, then the _darshan_ prevails and with that _charitra_ _moha_ will dispel completely. 'You' will have _samadhi_ (bliss of the Self) and it will take 'You' to _moksha_.

**Questioner** : So that _mohaniya karma_ (karma that deludes and attracts) will be dispelled completely, no? Then the 'seeing' as the Self ( _darshan_ kriya) occurs, right?

**Dadashri** : Yes. In following Our Agnas, the action of 'Seeing and Knowing' ( _darshan-gnan kriya_ ) will start. And in doing that, all the four _ghati_ karma (karma that makes one die life after life) will be destroyed. (Four _ghati_ karma are: (1) _Gnanavaraniya_ \- veils knowledge (2) _Darshanavaraniya -_ veils vision (3) _Mohaniya_ – karma of illusion and finally (4) _Antaraya_ – karma of obstructions).

## Gnan removes darshan _moha_ and Agna removes charitra _moha_

**Questioner:** 'You' have removed _darshan_ _moha_ for the _mahatmas_ but _charitra_ _moha_ still remains. Everything that happens during the course of the day is considered as just _charitra_ _moha_. When I get up, it is _charitra_ _moha_ , when I drink tea, it is _charitra_ _moha_ – it all goes under the heading of _charitra_ _moha_. So which kind of precise awareness is it that 'sees' _charitra_ _moha_ as _charitra_ _moha_ only?

**Dadashri** : 'I' have told You that it is _vyavasthit_ ; 'You' are to keep 'seeing'. There is liberation with that Agna. 'You' just have to keep on 'seeing'. No matter what kind of an activity he is doing, just keep 'seeing'.

**Questioner** : So does _charitra_ _moha_ dissipate by 'seeing' and it also dissipates by remaining in the five Agnas?

**Dadashri** : To 'see' ( _jovoo_ ) is five Agnas for sure, no? To 'see' relative and real, is to come into the Agnas. That is why, in order to get rid of _charitra_ _moha_ ; this was mentioned separately. _Charitra_ _moha_ was created through 'blindfolded eyes' (in ignorance of the Self) and now with 'open eyes (through seeing as the Self), 'we' are letting _charitra_ _moha_ leave.

**Questioner** : This feels like a very special connection to the Self. One just gropes about in the scriptures. 'You' have one statement, ' _darshan_ _moha_ goes away with the Gnan of the Gnani Purush and _charitra_ _moha_ goes away by following the Agnas of the Gnani Purush'.

**Dadashri** : That is true. When both these remain, it is of worth. If You cling on to _charitra_ _moha_ , then it is yours, if not then it is not Yours. If You remain 'Knower-Seer' ( _Gnata_ - _drashta_ ), it is not Yours, but if you say, 'this is happening to me', then it is yours. Go with whichever method you are comfortable with.

**Questioner** : To be the 'Knower" of _charitra_ _moha_ , that is _upayoga_ (applied awareness as the Self), is it not?

**Dadashri** : To know _charitra_ _moha_ , that verily is _upayoga_. It does not touch the 'Knower'.

## The unwinding of that which was wound, is charitra _moha_

**Questioner:** Dada after _darshan moha_ leaves, _charitra_ _moha_ will automatically leave on its own, right?

**Dadashri** : _Charitra_ _moha_ means _moha_ that has come into effect. So it will continue dissolving on its own; 'You' don't have to do anything. You have to remain _Gnata_ - _drashta_. If You remain in Your own Self-state ( _swabhav_ ) then You will not have any problems. A lawyer practices law and people will say that he practices law. How can we call that _charitra_ _moha_? I say that verily is called _charitra_ _moha_. In whatever way it was wound, it will unwind in the same way. If it was wound crookedly, it will unwind crookedly. If it was wound on straight, it will unwind straight. But however it was wound, it will unwind accordingly.

How wise was the Lord! If there were any exceptions placed here, it would create a problem, no? So it will unwind the way it was wound up. He will defend a case where he will prove his client is innocent even though the client is guilty. You successfully defended a guilty person? But that was the way his _moha_ was wound. But even then, the Self is the 'Knower-Seer'. Today the Self is not the owner and so how can he be responsible? So if one remains the 'Knower-Seer', then there is no problem. No matter what kind of stock was filled within, straightforward or crooked - it may be straightforward or it may be crooked, and 'straightforward' or 'crooked' is from the expectation of the intellect of this world. It is from the perspective of societal arrangements but as far as the Lord is concerned, there is no such thing as 'this is straightforward and this is crooked'. With this concept of 'straightforward-crooked' - it is because we find something disagreeable that we lable it as 'crooked' and if we find it agreeable we call it 'straightforward'. What we may find disagreeable, others may find agreeable, so how can we call this ours as disagreeable? It has to do with each person's account of karma. It is simply an imagination of one kind. 'Your' state is onewhich transcends the duality of straightforward and crooked. Therefore 'You' only have to 'see'. 'You' have to only follow Dada's Agnas. 'You' are not to see anything else; whatever comes along; good things or rubbish. The 'results' that have come forth are due to the manner in which the 'examination' was given. Just 'see' all that. You did not ask Dada when you gave the examination. You gave it of your own volition.

**Questioner** : But now, after having given the examination in the past life, does any extra help from You, work?

**Dadashri** : No. But now, whatever You are doing anew, that is with Me. What you did before; is coming up (as an effect) and that You have to 'see'. That is all I have said. Thereafter 'You' don't have any bondage; that is what I am saying.

_Charitra_ _moha_ is called as _prarabdha_ (effect), is it not? Do people not say, 'now only _prarabadh_ remains'? That is _charitra_ _moha_. _Prarabadha_ remains to be suffered (pleasure or pain). Suffer it by remaining as _Gnata-Drashta_ (Knower-Seer).

**Questioner** : So what I had wound in the past and brought with me, is unwinding; is that called _charitra_ _moha_?

**Dadashri** : Yes. The baggage you had wound and brought with you, when it unwinds, that is called _charitra_ _moha_. And the Lord says, 'when it unwinds, do not do _raag-dwesh_ (attachment-abhorrence) in it and remain _Gnata-Drashta_ (Knower-Seer)'.

## It unwinds according to the way it was designed

**Questioner:** So the _moha_ in one's conduct ( _vartan_ ), is that of the ego? Whose is it?

**Dadashri** : The ego's of course, who else's? _Shuddhatma_ , the pure Self, is separate for sure. And the mannequin-body complex of discharge _moha_ is separate. The mannequin (non-Self complex) of discharge _moha_ , eats, drinks and that too, it eats because it is _aahari_ , the eater. The one that is _vihari_ (the walker, the player) is the one that is walking.

**Questioner** : It walks, but that too it is because it has a certain _moha_ for walking that it does so, is that right?

**Dadashri** : Yes, that You have to 'see' – that is its design. It is not a new design.

**Questioner** : Yes, the entire worldly interaction ( _vyavahar_ ) is opening up according to this design.

**Dadashri** : The design that was planned is the way everything continues to happen. Now with the planning that takes place in Government projects, they sometimes change the designs on site, at the last minute. That cannot be done here.

**Questioner** : For example, my job with the company, it must be working according to the design, no?

**Dadashri** : Hmm (yes).

**Questioner** : Then when 'I' interefere in it by saying, 'I am fed up with this...I am bored...I don't want this...

**Dadashri** : That is the design for sure. In this design, if the Self remains separate and 'sees' as to what he (the self) is doing, then You, the Self are separate.

**Questioner** : So then the Self....

**Dadashri** : Remains _Gnata-drashta_ , Knower-Seer, of that. Even if Chandubhai (the relative self) becomes confrontational and You remain as the 'Seer', then it is enough.

**Questioner** : The part that creates interference ( _dakho-dakhal_ ) in the design, is that also a part of the design?

**Dadashri** : The interferences created are also within the design. 'You' are to become separate and 'See'. Justice means justice. Justice can never become injustice. This is the Vignan of Akram Vignan, is it not; is it anything ordinary?

**Questioner** : By Akram Vignan – what are 'You' trying to say?

**Dadashri** : Without Akram Vignan; there can never be anything that is to be settled ( _nikali_ ). Here if someone is smoking a cigarette, he is allowed to smoke whereas in the _kramic_ path, he will be made to quit.

## Charitra _moha_ of the interfering kind

Discharge _moha_ will automatically dissolve, provided 'You' do not interfere with it. Do not interfere and 'see' what is happening.

**Questioner** : Can interference happen in _charitra_ _moha_?

**Dadashri** : My goodness! The intereference is everywhere! _Moha_ can never be without interference. _Moha_ means interference. One will not refrain from interfering.

**Questioner** : But 'I' understand it as _charitra_ _moha_. The interference happens even if 'I' continue to 'see and know'.

**Dadashri** : The _Gnata_ - _Drashta_ (Knower-Seer) does not have interference. There is interference in _charitra_ _moha_. 'I will not come right now', that will result as interference; because that is the very quality of the filled stock of karma; one of interference. It is the _charitra_ _moha_ of interference that is coming out. The _Gnata_ - _Drashta_ will not have any other additional qualities. The interference that happens is not 'You', but there is interference is of the _charitra_ _moha_.

**Questioner** : But Dadaji, what is 'his' interference-free conduct like?

**Dadashri** : A little interference will be there for sure, because the _charitra_ _moha_ was bound through ignorance. And in the presence of Gnan, it is to be 'seen'. But it was bound in ignorance, no? So even a slight amount of interference is bound to be there. Obstinacy ( _aadayee_ ); all such interference is there for sure. To be obstinate, is called interference more or less. Some one may have more interference and if he sees things that are against his _prakruti_ , he will not refrain from being obstinate. If things happen against his _prakruti_ , he will not refrain from interfering. He will not let it unwind in a straightforward manner. He will interfere in it.

**Questioner** : But later then it will come into _vyavasthit_ , no?

**Dadashri** : Even that is all _vyavasthit_. But it will appear as interference. Someone will tell you, 'dear man, you created interference in this, again?' But it is _vyavasthit_ , for sure. There he has not choice but do it. 'He did it', to say that, is a figurative expression. Truly it was not done; it had been done, previously.

_Charitra_ _moha_ means that which was formed in ignorance, has to be seen in the awareness and the presence of Gnan – Knowledge of the Self. In ignorance one gives rise to everything, but when he attains the Knowledge of the Self, Gnan, he feels, 'alas! What sticky problems these are!' – that is _charitra_ _moha_. 'You' will have to bring about the final resolution ( _nivedo_ ). That is Your pending account. 'You' were the culprit and the guilty party, so the liability is 'Yours', no? No one else is liable for the mistake.

## That which is not 'seen' remains to be 'washed'

**Questioner:** When we interfere, it is called _charitra_ _moha_ ; until then it is not called so. So now what is that?

**Dadashri** : Interference is a different thing. What do we call as interference ( _dakho_ )? To do _dakho_ (interfere) and the dakho that happens, are two different things. The doer of interference ( _dakho_ ) does the interference, and for some the interference happens even when He does not want to interfere; that goes into _charitra_ _moha_. And the one who 'does' it; it goes into his own _moha_.

**Questioner** : So it is called as everyone's _charitra_ _moha_ , no? Even when we all read the newspapers - that is all _charitra_ _moha_ , no?

**Dadashri** : It is _charitra_ _moha_ only, what else is it? But while settling it ( _nikal_ ), if 'You' do not keep the _charitra_ _moha_ as separate, then it is a mistake on Your part; You have to remain _Gnata_ - _Drashta_ during the settlement. When Chandubhai is reading, You have to 'see' him.

**Questioner** : During the time of settlement ( _nikal_ ), if I am not able to remain as Knower-Seer, then it is _charitra_ _moha_ for sure, no?

**Dadashri** : It is _charitra_ _moha_ for sure but that _charitra_ _moha_ has not cleared. Those 'clothes' remain unwashed.

**Questioner** : Yes, but I want to remain _Gnata_ - _Drashta_ , but in certain circumstances, it eludes us, so is it not _charitra_ _moha_ at that time?

**Dadashri** : All the 'clothes' that pass by without being 'washed'; will have to be washed again. 'You' do not like the fact that it eludes 'You', it happens due to 'Your' weakness and so 'You' will have to 'see' it again. That is why 'we' are saying there are two or three more life times.

## The last soaked cloth will have to be washed

When all the clothes are washed before you take a bath, if one piece of cloth remains unwashed, it will have to be washed, no? So then you have to wash it in a way that you don't splatter too much. You washed all those other clothes, you soaped them and you scrubbed them really well and it did not matter even if you got soapsuds in your hair. But after taking a bath, you will wash carefully so as not to get soapsuds on you. So this final cloth will have to be washed. Will you not have to wash it?

**Questioner** : That is a clear and a perfect example.

**Dadashri** : Yes. I did that when I was young. I remember that. They used to have water pump in the farms and so we got free hot water. The boiler water had to be cooled. When the water came out hot in the pumps, we took our clothes there and washed them. But if one cloth remained, I would carefully and gently wash it without splatter. Like that, this one remains. There should be no splatter so I would hold it like this, far away and wash it. This was when I was 17 years of age, and there was that much intellect then. What can any one do if one did not have enough intellect for for even this? But here, in resolving _charitra moha_ , this is the same method.

**Questioner** : This light of Gnan, is it spontaneous and natural ( _sahaj_ )?

**Dadashri** : It is there naturally and spontaneously. Only that matter, which was wound up, is coming out, naturally, without any effort. And the acquisition of this Gnan is a very rare thing. But now, finally, will You wash it off?

**Questioner** : Yes. It is being washed everyday, no? Once 'You' had said that 'I will teach you to wash the clothes, but would my clothes not get dirty?'

**Dadashri** : For that, if it is such that I would ruin my own clothes, then why would I teach you?

This is Chandubhai's _charitra_ _moha_ that is coming out. Even in this state, his _charitra_ _moha_ is going to come out. The entire stock is of _charitra_ _moha_ and it has to be 'seen'; that _charitra_ _moha_ will come out. So if he gets angry with anyone, at that moment, 'You' are completely separate within with, 'this should not be so'. As compared to the force of what is going on on the outside, the inner force should be greater. That is why 'You' remain separate. And so this is called _charitra_ _moha_ that has become pure and it is called as 'letting go through 'seeing'. When it leaves thus 'seen', it becomes pure. If it passes in the absence of 'seeing', it is not considered as pure.

When does the ' continuous seeing' of _charitra_ _moha_ happen? It is when the world becomes forgotten ( _vismrut_ ). When does the world become _vismrut_? When one remains in constant touch with the Gnani Purush, then all those other 'books' (accounts) become erased. By 'touch', 'We' do not mean always for the rest of one's life but if one remains in touch for a certain period of time, everything will be erased. Once it is erased, it will not rise again.

**Questioner** : Certain period, means how much time?

**Dadashri** : For as long as it is not erased. Some people have very heavy books (account of karma), no? For them it will take longer time. If the books are light, then it will take lesser time.

Otherwise 'You' are to continue 'seeing' this _charitra_ _moha_ , 'You' don't have to do anything else. There are no difficulties of any kind in the process of 'seeing'. Are there any difficulties?

## Settle the stock that was filled

_Charitra_ _moha_ of anger ( _krodh_ ) will discharge and so will _charitra_ _moha_ of attachment ( _raag_ ). 'You' have to 'see' what is coming out. When the stock that was filled comes out as _raag-dwesh_ (attachment-abhorrence) 'You' have to keep 'seeing' that. When Chandubhai scolds someone, You will not have abhorrence towards him. You will say, 'this should not be so', but you will not feel abhorrence towards him. When stock of abhorrence ( _dwesh_ ) is discharging, then it is not acceptable that 'You' get shaken up.

Someone will say, 'I will not be comfortable living in the village', then he will have to settle that sometime in the future. But otherwise when something arises naturally and 'You' are able to settle it, then it is gone from the roots. How can one living in the city of Mumbai be comfortable in a village? You have lived in a bungalow. I have a business of construction contracts; I am comfortable with everything, and hence there is no effect later. If there is some prominent VIP from a small town and we ask him if he would like to walk or sit on the farm tractor, he will prefer to sit on the farm tractor. Why would he get tired walking? Whereas you will say you want to walk. Because you don't have the habit of traveling by sitting on a farm tractor and for 'us' (Dada) we have sat in a bullock cart, a wagon; we have travelled in many different ways. There is no way of transportation that remains for us to be experienced. And that too, the _nikal_ settlement has to be brought about, no? Even if the wrong thing has come, just settle it.

**Questioner** : No, this tractor is an amenity; it cannot be called as an inconvenience.

**Dadashri** : That which you don't like or like has come. There are two types of results, effect from past life; that, which you 'don't like', and that, which 'you like'. It is _charitra_ _mohaniya_.

## Mahatmas do not have unfolding karma effect

**Questioner:** One time 'You' had said that _mahatmas_ do not have _udayakarma_ (karma unfolding in this life), they have _charitra_ _moha_.

**Dadashri** : Because _mahatmas_ have _udaya_ (unfolding) of _charitra_ _moha_ , i.e. they have unfolding effect of _charitra_ _moha_. Others (those who do not have Self-realization) have _udaya_ of main _moha_ ('I am Chandulal' both, cause and effect of karma). This 'ours' is _charitra_ _moha_ (only effect of karma)and that other is _moha_. Their's is the root cause _moha_ (one that creates bondage life after life).

**Questioner** : Dada what is _udaya_ karma and what is _charitra_ _moha_? What is the difference between the two?

**Dadashri** : _Charitra_ _moha_ is for the One whose _moha_ (charge _moha_ ) is gone. Besides such _mahatmas_ , the entire world is with _moha_ (illusory attachment that creates causes of new karma). All that is _udaya_ karma.

**Questioner** : What does ' _udaya_ karma' mean?

**Dadashri** : It is karma that one has created in the past life and are unfolding in this life to give effect.

**Questioner** : So for _mahatmas_ , the karma created in the past life that arise to give effect are named as _charitra_ _moha_. Is it instead of _udaya_ karma? Mahatmas will have effect of past karma, no?

**Dadashri** : For _mahatmas_ , it is not _udaya_ karma; it is _charitra_ _moha_. Those who have _moha_ , have _udaya_ karma. It is not called as _udaya_ karma for those who do not have _moha_. _udaya_ karma is for people at large, not _mahatmas_. Every human being has _udaya_ karma; the acetics, the hermits etc. Only our _mahatmas_ do not have _udaya_ karma.

**Questioner** : But many times I have heard _mahatmas_ refer to the term ' _udaya_ karma'.

**Dadashri** : It is not enough that you heard it. 'You' will have to 'understand' it. What would happen if 'You' become Chandubhai? Who would have _udaya_ karma?

**Questioner** : Chandubhai.

**Dadashri** : Yes, _Shuddhatma_ does not have _udaya_ karma.

## Keval Darshan : Absolute Vision

Whatever the type of _charitra_ _moha_ there is, that is the type that will arise. Whether it comes in conformity with 'your laws' or against it, the continuous awareness of 'I am not doing anything at all' is called _keval_ _darshan_. There is no such thing as lawful or unlawful as far as the Lord is concerned. It is only so with people. Even the cattle and the animals do not have the lawful and the unlawful. It is only so with these people who have a lot of 'sense'! This arrangement of laws has been put in place whereby if we follow them, we will be happy. Just for one life if 'You' simply 'see' all that is 'lawful or unlawful', the losses of all lifetimes will go away. What more do 'You' want?

There is _charitra_ _moha_ ; nothing else remains. If the awareness ( _khyal_ ) of 'I am not doing anything' remains continuously, then there is no need to do _pratikraman_ or _pratyakhyan_. But that cannot remain so continuously. Man does not have that much of a capacity. So it will happen, gradually, no? At first 'we' have to do this and then gradually 'we' will reach that state.

## Upayoga of the Self during discharge unveils bliss

**Questioner** : Does discharge _moha_ and discharge not become two separate things?

**Dadashri** : They are two different things. Everything will be discharging only. One discharges in the presence of awakened awareness ( _upayoga purvak_ ) and the other discharges in the absence of awakened awareness. In the latter _charitra_ _moha_ remains. Now in _charitra_ _moha_ , as much of it happens in the presence of Your awareness, that much benefit is Yours; otherwise _charitra_ _moha_ will continue. _Upayoga_ (awareness) needs to be with _jagruti_ (awakened awareness, awareness as the Self).

**Questioner** : What is the difference between the one that discharges with awakened awareness ( _upayoga_ or _upayoga purvak_ ) and the one that is happening on its own?

**Dadashri** : If it happens with awakened awareness, then there is benefit from it. It is called _purushartha_ , Your effort. _Upayoga_ , applied awareness of the Self, is _purushartha_.

**Questioner** : What is the result of the one that happens without _upayoga_?

**Dadashri** : Nothing. What other result? 'You' did not benefit from it. There is that much weakness in _purushartha_ ; 'Your' awareness did not prevail. You sat in the shop but you did not sell anything. The damage is limited to the point of you not having done any business. But karma are not bound because of that. There is no charging of karma. But that much of _charitra_ _moha_ will veil Your bliss. If You are aware, then there will be bliss. 'Our' _charitra_ _moha_ is very little; 'we' remain in applied awareness of the Self ( _shuddha upayoga_ ). When 'we' do 'our' _vidhis_ (Gnani Puursh's inner activities for salvation of all living beings), that is all _upayoga_. There is a _vidhi_ of two to three hours in the afternoon, two to three hours in the evening, an hour in the morning; there are _vidhis_ all during the day.

**Questioner** : Without _upayoga_ it comes and goes ( _upsham_ ) and with _upayoga_ it ( _moha_ ) is gone forever ( _kshayak_ ), right?

**Dadashri** : For Us ( _mahatmas_ ), it is eternal ( _kshayak_ ) even without _upayoga_ ; it is eternal vision ( _kshayak_ _darshan_ ). For _kshayak_ Gnan (complete and distinct experience as the Self) _shuddha upayoga_ is necessary. Once _kshayak_ Gnan happens, then _kshayak_ _Charitra_ (absolute conduct as the Self) will arise.

## Impurity through vishambhaav (ignorance of the Self) and purity through sambhav (equanimity)

_Charitra_ _mohaniya_ means to settle with equanimity ( _sambhavey nikaal_ ). When You settle with equanimity, it means that it becomes pure and then it goes away. Purification must take place. It was because _vishambhav_ ( _raag-dwesh_ attachment-abhorrence) was done that it became impure ( _ashuddha_ ). Now if you settle with _sambhav_ (equanimity), it will become pure ( _shuddha_ ). It was collected through _vishambhav._

This _charitra_ _mohaniya_ which is there is not Your _maliki_ – ownership. 'You' have been entrusted it to Dada. 'You' have to 'see' it. However much of _charitra_ _mohaniya_ is seen with pure vision ( _shuddha drashti_ ) ; that much of _charitra_ _mohaniya_ becomes purified and however much of it remains, that much will need to be purified. 'Yours' does not get left behind without 'seeing' does it?

**Questioner** : Sometimes it gets left behind, Dadaji.

**Dadashri** : Is that so? So when will 'You' 'see' it? Will 'You' be able to?

**Questioner** : I will have to do it again, Dada. What else can I do?

**Dadashri** : So whatever remains, will be left for the next life. It does not ask for many lifetimes.

## There should be no scorn towards charitra _moha_

With eternal vision, Vision of the Self ( _kshayak_ _samkit_ ) even if conduct ( _vartan_ ) of the self, is right or wrong; it is still _charitra_ _moha_. If it goes against the scriptures, that too is _charitra_ _moha_ and if it is in compliance with the scriptures, that is also _charitra_ _moha_. _Charitra_ _moha_ means this _moha_ looks like _moha_ , but it is _charitra_ _moha_. _Charitra_ _moha_ means it will not leave even if You try to renounce ( _tyaga_ ) it and if You cannot acquire it even if You try to acquire ( _graham_ ) it. It has to be resolved and settled. Because it was filled with your approval and pleasure! Now You cannot have scorn ( _tiraskar_ ) towards it. Now You find it bitter, but at the time of filling it, you believed it to be sweet, and that was the very belief when you filed it, no? So the filled stock of this man is different and your filled stock is different and this other filled stock is something entirely new. His is different, her's is different; they are all different. I too will know what kind of filled stock there is, over there.

**Questioner** : Dada, there is magnanimous compassion of Yours in that the _charitra_ _moha_ is coming out. Dada You have uprooted my _moha_.

**Dadashri** : That is it; _charitra_ _moha_ is coming out. This is _charitra_ _moha_.

**Questioner** : That is what I have come to plead with Dada: that the _charitra_ _moha_ discharges speedily; that is all I am requesting. Can that not be speeded up, Dada?

**Dadashri** : Yes, so if the film ends quickly, then the 'Seer' will have to get up and go home!

**Questioner** : Today You mentioned that when we get together like this and ask questions, it is all _charitra_ _moha_. I just had a thought that all this that is happening to us, the _raag-dwesh_ , all the things we talk about, the questions we ask, but the thing is that the State we want to reach has nothing like this in it. That State is beyond all this, is it not?

**Dadashri** : Yes, it is beyond all this. Nevertheless when this comes, it has to be settled. 'We' have to settle all that comes, no? 'You' will have to walk the path, no?

**Questioner** : I will have to walk it.

**Dadashri** : Can you satisfy your hunger by just seeing a plate of food? For satisfaction, Gnan (knowledge as the Self), _Darshan_ (pure Vision) and _Charitra_ (conduct as the Self) all are needed. You cannot fulfill your hunger by seeing the food. It will be with Gnan- _Darshan_ - _Charitra_ , then by keeping faith- continued vision of all this ( _shraddha_ ), then with _Charitra_ , that is the 'eating'. That is when it comes to an end. And 'we, the Self', are beyond all this; that is Our faith, which has become established. But all this _charitra_ _moha_ , which is there, will 'We' not have to 'move' (settle) it? So that is what all these people ( _mahatmas_ ) are moving (settling with equanimity).

Settle this _charitra_ _moha_ through _viataragata_ (without any attachment or abhorrence). Whenever this man comes, he is absorbed in thoughts and confused. So I tell him, whatever it is, it is all _charitra_ _moha_. So now let go! Just 'see' casually what kind of _moha_ it is. Then that confusion will come to an end. In this way, it will all eventually come to an end.

## It is not Your charitra _moha_ You are not absorbed in it

Our _mahatmas_ do have _charitra moha_. But _charitra_ _moha_ is called _charitra_ _moha_ when one remains _tanmayakar_ , absorbed or involved in it; only then is it called _charitra_ _moha_. If he does not remain _tanmayakar_ , then it is not _charitra_ _moha_. The Self does not remain _tanmayakar_ and so the Self does not have _charitra_ _moha_. If someone asks, then it becomes necessary to say that there is _charitra_ _moha_.

**Questioner** : But the Self does not have _charitra_ _moha_.

**Dadashri** : Yes. _Charitra_ _moha_ does not remain for the Self. It remains for some _mahatmas_. Whatever action is taking place, they remain _tanmayakar_ , absorbed or involved, in it. Even when they eat, there is a state of involvement.

**Questioner** : Up until now I was under the impression that whatever is happening is all _charitra_ _moha_. Whether I become involved with it or not, all discharge is _charitra_ _moha_.

**Dadashri** : Yes. It is _charitra_ _moha_ for sure. Who is saying 'no' to that?

**Questioner** : But You are saying that when I become _tanmayakar_ in it, then only it is _charitra moha._

**Dadashri** : If there is involvement, if You do become _tanmayakar_ (the body mind form) then it is Your _charitra_ _moha_. Othewise if You are not _tanmayakar_ in it, but when someone asks you, 'what is this? What kind of _moha_ is this?' the answer is ' _charitra_ _moha_ '. You have to give them an appropriate response from worldly interaction purposes.

**Questioner** : But in reality?

**Dadashri** : If You are not _tanmayakar_ (involvement), then it is not _charitra_ _moha_. Very rarely even 'we' (Gnani Purush) become _tanmayakar_ in certain situations, but not otherwise.

**Questioner** : How can 'You' become that way? For 'You' there is pure discharge.

**Dadashri** : But even then some will ask, 'why do you wear these clothes of a prominent businessman?', and the answer is _charitra_ _moha_. That is what 'we' say.

**Questioner** : Yes.

## Become free from charitra _moha_ by remaining separate

**Dadashri** : When Chandubhai is doing _darshan_ and You 'see' him, then You are separate. When You keep 'seeing' Chandubhai, then You are are free from _charitra moha_ and if 'You' do not 'see', then the _charitra_ _moha_ remains. If 'You' don't 'see', then _charitra_ _moha_ is still there. Sometime or other, You will have to 'see' only, and let go. Everything separates by 'Seeing'. Even if You 'see', you cannot see him (Chandubhai) exactly at that time. If the awareness ( _jagruti_ ) remains, then it is enough.

**Questioner** : Why is it that despite 'seeing', proper 'seeing' does not happen?

**Dadashri** : If the awareness is not there, then some of it will be missed.

**Questioner** : But what is it like when it is 'seen' exactly?

**Dadashri** : 'You' are not able to 'See' it exactly. To 'See' exactly means You are able to 'See' a lot completely; that calls for a great state of experience of the Self. 'One' has to be 'seeing' for a long time, that is when everything with the body will be 'seen' as separate. This conversation that you are currently engaged in, up to that point everything is being 'seen'. The Self will 'see' everything as separate, all these hand movements, etc. Just as you see other individuals here as being separate, that is how separate Chandubhai is also being 'seen'.

**Questioner** : Yes that is right, that the Self 'sees' everything as separate, that everything appears as separate to the Self.

**Dadashri** : It is separate indeed.

**Questioner** : But that other, that You are describing, is not 'seen'.

**Dadashri** : Not only that he cannot see, but he has not even heard of such a thing. If he hears something of the sort some day, then it will become separate, and if it separates, then He will begin to 'see' it as separate. Even if he simply hears that,'my grandfather's name was Naginbhai', then love for his Grandfather will arise in him. Just simply from having heard something. He may not have even seen him. That is how by hearing and listening, the Gnan manifests. First the conviction ( _pratiti_ ) is established then He will gain a little experience ( _anubhav_ ) and then everything will move for him. Once the experience is gained, it will come into conduct ( _charitra_ ) for sure.

**Questioner** : With the mind, speech and body, it may be easier to 'see' the separation of the mind. Then speech is a little harder to 'see' as being separate and even more difficult is to 'see' the separation with the body.

**Dadashri** : That is right of course. The mind, can be seen as separate even by a person who does not have Self-realization. When he says that he gets bad thoughts; that in itself is an indication that he is seeing the mind separately.

**Questioner** : Yes, but he would not be able to maintain that much separation when it comes to speech. At that time he cannot maintain awareness. Then we say that we realize it later on.

**Dadashri** : Yes. That awareness comes later on. And with the body when it is running and he 'sees' it as running, then it is right. When Chandubhai is scolding this man, at that time, 'You' 'see' Chandubhai, You are able to 'see' that 'oh, Chandubhai is at it again, he is scolding him. Why is he doing this?' When one hears about maintaining such a separation, then the awareness will arise later on. If one has not heard of such a thing, then how can the awareness arise?

When someone says, 'our farm has only a three-sided fence', then you are able to visualize that farm with three corners. First you hears of it. There is not a fourth fence. Are there not farms with just three-sided fences?

**Questioner** : Yes, there are in a triangle.

**Dadashri** : Triangled farms. Having heard of such a thing, you is able to see it, visualize it.

This is a very subtle and scientific discovery otherwise 'We' cannot call it Akram. It is not so easy to claim Akram. Akram means it is an entire and complete irrefutable principle that leads to the ultimate ( _siddhant_ ) and it is scientific ( _vignan_ ). At every moment, there is not even a hair worth of non-scientific fact in it. 'You' will realize it when 'You' see this principle with Me.

# [6.1] Karma, new and old

## Karma before Gnan Vidhi destoryed

**Questioner** : How should one come to terms with all the good and bad karma done prior to attaining Gnan?

**Dadashri** : Most of them are destroyed when 'we' give You the Gnan, through the grace of God within ('Dada Bhagwan') That is why the Self remains present otherwise it would never do so. Even after wandering life after life for thousands of lives, one will not have awareness of the Self, will he? Therefore many _paap_ (sin, demerit karma) are destroyed upon attaining Gnan. So You do not have to worry about the past karma. Your _dharma_ (religion, duty) should be to follow 'our' Agnas.

**Questioner** : What will happen to all the karma I had prior to attaining Gnan? Do I have to suffer their effects in my next life?

**Dadashri** : All those karma will be suffered in this very life. No balance of these karma will be left for the next life. Only the new ones that were bound will have to be experienced in the next life, and the old ones will be suffered in this life.

## Karma destroyed with the fire of Gnan

**Questioner** : Dada has said that karma, solid like ice, still remain.

**Dadashri** : There are three kinds of discharge of karma. One is like steam, second is like water and the third is like ice. 'We' destroy those that are like steam and water. Only the ones like ice, 'we' cannot destroy. One has no choice but suffer the effect of those karma inorder to become free. Look, they (mahatmas) are suffering them, no? They suffer only those ice-like ones and they are in joy, in that effect. You have understood the Vignan, have You not?

**Questioner** : You have given us the Vision of _Shuddhatma_ , that is fine, but what about the _nikachit_ _karma_ (heavy and 'sticky' ice-like karma that one has no choice but suffer) that have already been bound, they are bound to come and I have to suffer their effects, right?

**Dadashri** : Most of them, those like water and steam that have not solidified have been destroyed. You will have to suffer only those that have solidified like ice. The Gnani Purush can destroy the karma with the 'fire of Gnan'.

**Questioner** : These _nikachit_ karma one has to suffer, it is the atma, the self them, does it not? Does its doership not come into play there?

**Dadashri** : The Self does not have to suffer anything. The Self (Atma) is _Paramatma_ (absolute Self). It is the _vyavahar_ atma (relative self) that suffers. The one that enjoyed the pleasures is the one suffering the pains. And the one that suffered the pains is now enjoying the pleasures, and that is the _vyavahar_ atma (the relative self) and there is no _chetan_ (the Self, the Soul) in that, this I gurantee You. The whole world is running without _chetan_ , the Self, but it runs in the presence of _chetan_.

That is 'our' Vignan, so get Your work done. All I am saying is that 'I' got My work done; You get Your work done too. The One sitting within, the _pratyaksha_ (absolute Self), will give You anything You want. If you ask for any spiritually related thing in this world, just like a cash bank, He will give You all that, in cash (readily).

**Questioner** : The kind of Gnan that You attained at Surat station; that is what I want.

**Dadashri** : Yes. You have been given exactly that but what about the 'ice blocks' that You still have? I did whatever I could, but what can I do with the large blocks of ice that You have? Your blocks are small, but other people save them, as if its going to help them make ice-cream.

**Questioner** : What is the solution to get rid of the karma that are like ice?

**Dadashri** : Why are You trying to remove them? They are leaving on their own; You just have to remain the Knower-Seer.

**Questioner:** Before I met Dada there were ice-like _nikaachit karma._ Can they now be decreased with _samayik_?

**Dadashri:** They will decrease.

**Questioner:** But they will not be uprooted completely, will they?

**Dadashri:** No, they will show their face, scare you superficially and then leave. The bag of karma will empty by itself. Once the container is empty, even if You will try to look for them, You will not find them. Haven't they (karma) started to decrease? They will go down, just like the filled tank, which starts to drain.

**Questioner** : When I do _pratikraman_ and I repent, does that reduce the suffering of _nikachit_ karma (those karma that have to be suffered)?

**Dadashri** : Yes of-course! These _nikachit_ karma will feel lighter even if You have this knowledge of the Self. All karma will feel light with this Gnan. One _maund_ (80 pounds) karma will feel like three maund (240 pounds) with ignorance ( _agnan_ ), and with Gnan, it will feel like 10 pounds. It will make such a difference!

When the time comes, it will become separated-fall away for sure. Those karma will continue discharging completely ( _nirjara_ ). There is nothing to worry about. There would be karma bondage if there were _parabhav_ in it (non-Self intent, I am Chandulal and I am the doer); charging would happen. And when charging happens, worries will arise. And with worries, there will be a worldly life and wandering. In this Vignan, there is no _paradravya_ (matter) and _parabhaav_ at all. If there were, then they would never allow _samadhi_ (absolute unaffected state of the Self). The whole world is in _parabhav._

**Questioner** : I feel that way because my awareness ( _jagruti_ ) is low. That is why I asked You.

**Dadashri** : No. _Jagruti_ is not less. What it is is the unfamiliarity of this path since time immemorial. Therefore, when You have been brought on this path, You have to ask 'what is happening to me?' Do I really have a fever, or is it hot here? So 'we' tell you, it is not a fever; it is hot here. So You have to ask. That is not _ajagruti_ (unawareness of the Self).

## The bliss is veiled during bitter fruit

**Questioner** : There is bliss ( _anand_ ) when there is internal progress, but then why does the bliss go down?

**Dadashri** : It will go down, but when an effect of past karma arises, it will give a jolt, will it not? When you feel the jolt, the bliss will not come. There are past karma, are they not? When they give fruits, there is pleasure in them, no? When you get a good meal, there is pleasure in it, no? At that time you find it 'sweet' and the other you find 'bitter'. 'You' will have to taste both, the bitter and the sweet. Thereafter, You will not have to taste bitter-sweet; there will be just one kind of bliss. 'You' will have uninterrupted bliss. When the sweet ones come, you forget for a little while, don't You?

**Questioner** : Now, I have to increasingly do what I do not like to do.

**Dadashri** : What You liked, you made it unlikable. So now that You find it unlikable, it feels wrong. It is unlikable, but you had made it likable, and that is why you were trapped.

# [6.2] Improving the conduct

## Conduct is not be seen in Akram Vignan

**Questioner** : I have attained _vitarag vignan_ the scientific knowledge of the _vitarag_ from the scientist of absolutism Gnani Purush Dadashri. I have complete understanding of it, but now, is there any time limit for the understanding to manifest as Gnan (experience as the Self)?

**Dadashri** : Of-course, there is a limit of time. The Gnan that You have will take time to blossom and grow. Just as when you put a little yogurt culture in milk, you cannot expect the milk to turn into yogurt right away. It needs six to eight hours for that to happen, does it not? Similarly, this understanding will take a certain amount of time to manifest in Gnan.

**Questioner** : Is it different for each person?

**Dadashri** : Yes, it is different for everyone, depending on the _avaran_ (veil). For some it may happen in two hours and for some it may not happen even in two years. It all depends on the _avaran_ ; it depends on the _moha_ (illusion).

**Questioner** : Now that this Gnan has been given to the _mahatmas_ , how much of it should manifest in His conduct?

**Dadashri** : It will take time to manifest in the worldly life interaction ( _vyavahar_ ). Because the conduct ( _achaar_ ) that You have now; that conduct of Yours cannot change, so it will take time. There is no problem for 'us-Gnani Purush', because all our conduct have come to end. You are as much a Gnani as 'we' are, but Your conduct is not proper.

**Questioner** : So you are a Gnani, and that other person is a Gnani, so then is there any similarity in it?

**Dadashri** : There is no difference in the Gnan, there is difference in the conduct.

**Questioner** : So is it very difficult to bring it into conduct?

**Dadashri** : It is not to be brought into conduct ever. Akram mean 'not conduct'. That experience will continue to come on its own for sure. Because this discharge which is there; it simply needs to be settled. There is nothing else that needs to be done.

'We' are telling You 'don't look at his ( _mahatma's_ ) conduct'. 'His' puzzle has been solved. The thoughts of the mind, utterances of the speech and conduct of the body; they are all a thing of discharge. No one can change the discharge (effect). And charge is a different thing. Charge (causes) can be changed. Conduct-thoughts-utterances cannot be changed, because they are a discharge. People keep looking at the discharge- conduct only.

## Scolding not needed because it is Vignan

Many people have been given this Gnan. I do not scold anyone. Even if Your conduct appears as wrong, I will not scold you. Because conduct will change when the Gnan manifests (experience of the Self becomes established). For the time being, You have understood it, have You not? You have to understand it first and then become complete in it. You have to continue sitting with Me and keep understanding it.

There are two paths; the wrong path and the right path. What is going to happen once You come on the right path? How is it ever going to become wrong? There is no other path in there. You are now walking in the opposite direction of the wrong path. The other path that you had followed was the wrong one and now You have walked in its opposite direction. Now, having walked in the right direction, how are You going to get lost? In due time, when some botheration arises within, everyone will come here to ask 'what is happening to me?'

And over there in the _kramic_ path, all the focus is on conduct. Here 'we' have put an end to attention to conduct. That is why we don't scold anyone! Do 'we' ever scold anyone because of his conduct here?

**Questioner** : No, never.

**Dadashri** : And over there, there is nothing but conflicts over conduct. There is no problem if one has a bad thought within; no one will come to know of it, will they? Over there, what is the conflict against each other for? It is because their conduct towards each other appears as being bad. There, no one is able to see the bad thoughts that arise within. Over here, that is what 'we' have improved; the internal part. 'We' have 'stopped' the external part and besides, the external part is a completely different thing altogether; because all of it is an effect. So, currently it is not in the form of causes. This Akram Vignan is such that after experiencing the Self, You are not liable for any mistakes that happen. That is why till today, I have never had to scold anyone. Otherwise, I would have to scold someone every three days without fail. If there is a guru with two disciples, he has to keep scolding his disciples, 'why did you do this?' 'why are you doing that?' But this is Akram Vignan, and so there is never a need to scold anyone!

## This is not a conduct- associated path

Otherwise, what difference will it make if one's conduct improves externally? This is not a conduct-associated path at all. 'Our' discovery is very profound. It is a scientific discovery. The whole world has followed the conduct-associated path. Then no matter what kind of thoughts one has, his conduct has to be good.

A husband and a wife are out taking a walk, the wife is thinking of having him killed some day and husband is thinking of having her killed, the external conduct of the two taking a walk together looks wonderful, but what good is that? Therefore, 'we' have removed all conduct here. So if one were to set off in search for the path of liberation by looking at conduct, not a single person will be able to attain the path. Not a single conduct of his will improve and he will gain nothing. 'We' have gotten rid of conduct altogether.

The reason it is called Akram is because 'We' got rid of conduct from it. The entire world's religions are based on conduct and 'we' are against it; there is no conduct requisition in the path of liberation. How wonderful is this path of liberation! There are absolutely no objections in it! You can make connection and verification from every direction and angle. Verification is available even in the dark. Verification is there in the light.

**Questioner** : 'You' completely removed the need for any conduct so then is there any place for _samyak_ (right, good conduct)?

**Dadashri** : No. The one who has such a conduct, it is beneficial for him and the one whose conduct is not good; he will naturally feel miserable right here, in this life. Both are states of suffering of pleasure and pain; profit and loss. And here if someone has good conduct, they will glorify him and if someone has bad conduct, they will say he is bad natured. But conduct is neither an impediment nor a benefit for _moksha_.

For _moksha_ , there is no value given to conduct, it has been made worthless. Conduct is not necessary to attain _moksha_ , but it is necessary if you want happiness in the worldly life. If you want liberation, then you need to understand the path of liberation. There is no need for 'us' to look at your conduct. But if you want worldly happiness, then nothing except good conduct will work. But what is more, even with that conduct you will not find happiness. What is the outcome of everyone's conduct of today? Its outcome is not happiness, its outcome is pain. The outcome of this current good ( _samyak_ ) conduct is pain because it is conduct without the unity of the mind-speech-body. So the body's conduct is beautiful. The mind says 'this should not happen'. Such conduct goes to waste and on the contrary, causes harm.

What do people with a good conduct do? If guests come to their home at eleven at night, they will say, 'Come on in, welcome, welcome'. But what is actually going on internally is, 'Why the hell did they have to come this late at night?' What the Lord says is, ' _Mooah!_ (expression to express deep compassion for someone doomed) You incurred a (karmic) loss here. What happened internally, that is your _purushartha_ (effort that brings results). The good conduct is a discharge. Yes, you spilled the _doodhpaak_ (precious dessert) and took buttermilk in return. Even when giving donations, one will say, 'I gave under pressure from Chandubhai; I would not have given otherwise.' Now, his entire donation goes to waste. So this is what it has become in this era of the time cycle.

**Questioner** : So Dada, does that mean that one's internal tendencies start becoming pure in the Akram path?

**Dadashri** : In Akram, the main change starts internally. In the _kramic_ path, purity cannot even happen internally, the reason being one does not have the capacity; there is no such 'machinery' and that is why they have resorted to the external method. But when will that external method reach the internal? It will reach the inside when there is unity of mind-speech-body. The main thing is that there is no longer unity of mind-speech-body.

The world has discovered a path of progressing towards _moksha_ one step at a time. But it is only good as long as one says and does exactly what is in his mind; it will continue working until then. Otherwise, that path will come to an end. In this era of the current time cycle, such unity of mind-speech-body is broken, and that is why the _kramic_ path is fractured. That is why I say that it is because the foundation of the _kramic_ path has become decayed that Akram has arisen. Everything is allowed here; as you are, the way you are. Here, now that you have met me, sit here. So 'we' do not bother with what happens externally at all.

No matter how good one's conduct is, no matter what one is like, the next life is one of bamkruptcy because the unity of the mind-speech-body does not remain. If there is unity, then good conduct sows a seed for good conduct for the next life. But because this unity is not there, the seed falls the wrong way. So there is no unity of the mind-speech-body. I asked the ascetics and the spiritual masters, 'Is there unity?' they replied, 'No, it is not there.' So I told them, 'Go to jungle and cry out loud!' And what is our path to _moksha_ like? It shines more and more.

## Internally Mahatmas are always in saiyam

If someone steals your wallet on your way here, what would You do to him? Would You remain in _saiyam_ (no _raag-dwesh_ ) or would you become _asaiyami_ (react with _raag-dwesh_ )?

**Questioner** : Now I am in _saiyam_ only.

**Dadashri** : You immediately become _saiyamdhari_ (One who has risen above _kashayas_ ). All these _mahatmas_ remain in _saiyam_ , so many of them do so, is that not a wonder? And the world _asanyami_ (with _kashaya_ ) with good conduct.

After attaing Gnan, there is internal _saiyam_. It is 'My' discovery that the world accepts good conduct, and 'I' do not accept conduct. Conduct is an effect, and _saiyam_ or _asaiyam_ ; both are causes. They are new examinations. So should you give importance to the examination or should you give importance to the results? But presently during the examination, the poor fellow is walking in the wrong direction. This life is the is the result (karmic effect) of the examination (causes) he took in his past life. But now he is doing wrong in his new examination, is he not? 'You' (those who have Gnan) failed your past examination, but You have _saiyam_ in the new examination, do You not? Therefore, 'we' do not look at the conduct. 'We' do not have a problem whether one's conduct is good and 'we' do not have a problem if his conduct is bad.

What does the world say? Why did you fail? You have to pass! How can he, without taking the examination? You can pass only if you take the examination again. It will take many years after taking the examination that you see the result, it will improve the conduct. But those people say, 'I am trying to improve my conduct, but it does not improve!' Both the improver and one being improved, will go mad. All these talks are without any understanding. Show me anyone that has improved.

## Conduct will not change, the inner intent will

The whole world is trying to change the effect ( _dravya_ ). That is, they are trying to change the conduct of the body, conduct of the mind, conduct of the speech. Effect is not such that it will change; therefore change your intent ( _bhaav_ cause). Take Gnan from Dada and then change your _bhaav_. Then You become free from the whole world. The whole world is trying to change the effect ( _dravya_ ), they are trying to change what is not in their power or control ( _satta_ ) and they do not change what is in their control and power.

After Gnan, all the _bhaavs_ (inner intents) change. Conduct ( _achar_ ), thought ( _vichar_ ) and _uchhar_ (speech), are considered _dravya_ (effects). Effect cannot change. But if the causes ( _bhaav_ ) change, then when the time comes, _drayva_ (effect) will dissolve. If you bring a one ton block of ice at home, in time it will all melt away, will it not? Whether you keep an eye on it or not, it will go away, will it not? And what if you keep trying to save it? You will waste all your effort and you will not be able to save it. So turn around, do an about turn; turn your back on it. 'You' can turn your back on it after attaining Gnan but otherwise you cannot.

Therefore You do not have to learn the scriptures, You have to learn Dada. 'You' have to just see Dada. By seeing, there will be a complete change in effect, in just one lifetime. Just by seeing him, Your _bhaav_ will arise, 'what speech! Such wonderful conduct! Such a mind! 'Your' _bhaav_ will become like that. And all this other is going to dissolve. Once 'You' turn your back on it, it will all dissolve. But what kind of new ice do 'You' have to buy? When 'You' follow Dada's Agnas, You will need new ice for one more life, which will become ready. The past will dissolve in one or two lives. Pure new ice will come to You.

## External conduct removed in the Akram Path

What the _kramic_ path says is once the external conduct changes, the _bhaav_ (innter intent) changes and then 'You' can be fee. While remaining at home, when can you attain the absolute Self, and when can your external conduct change? How can external conduct change there? So, this path is completely Akram (stepless, short-cut), and it is scientific, and it is possible to get Your work done with minimum effort. 'We' have seen in 'our' Gnan, that external conduct is a neutral thing. After having seen in 'our' Gnan, 'we' have established this path after taking the Lord's permission. Therefore 'we' eliminated the external conduct. Inner conducts starts, and it will spread on its own and then express externally. In the _kramic_ path, one has to start on the outside and then come inwards, whereas in the Akram path, one has to start clearing internally and work towards the outside. So 'we' are not to see one's external conduct. External conduct will not change because it is an attribute of the non-Self ( _prakrutik_ - _guna_ ), is it not?

This is a Vignan. But otherwise all the knowledge in the _kramic_ path does not proceed without first looking at the conduct and here in the Akram path we do not look at the conduct at all. Do You feel that way? No matter how bad one's conduct, I will not reprimand him. Whereas, in that other path? They will come down very hard on him. The guru of the _kramic_ path will tell him, 'Why do you smoke? Stop smoking!'

In our Vignan, when giving Gnan, 'we' set good and bad habits aside. We do not acquire good habits and we do not get rid of the bad habits. We leave both aside. We do not acquire _punyai_ (merit karma) and we do not renounce _paap_ (demerit karma). So no one can change the unfolding karmic effects of this one life. No one can change the unfolding karma, from birth to death.

## Conduct, thought and speech are not of the Self

There are two kinds of conducts: good conduct ( _sadachar_ ) and bad ( _durachar_ ). And the Self does not have any conduct ( _achar_ ). The one that moves has conduct. The Self does not have any conduct ( _achar_ ), thought ( _vichar_ ) or _uchhar_ (speech).

Whose _uchhar_ (speech) is it? It is of the taped record. And whose thoughts ( _vichar_ ) are they? They are of the mind. Conduct ( _achar_ ) is of the body, so what does the Self have to do with them? The Self is separate, and all these are separate. Conduct is the body's _dharma_ (intrinsic property). One may claim, 'I am a man of good conduct, I have been practicing good conduct for many years.' So be a man with good conduct, who says 'no' to you? It is the _pudgal_ (non-Self complex) that is having the good conduct, is it not? _Pudgal_ can be one with good conduct; can the Self be? The Self is the _Paramatma_ (absolute Self).Our Vignan is such that it has put all these three things aside, as a discharge. What has not happened in a million years; has happened through this very new path. Otherwise, when will You attain _moksha_ , if you were to go in this way? Did it seem possible to attain the ultimate in trying to keep improving conduct, improving the speech and improving the mind? Will any of these people ever attain _moksha_? On the contrary, they are sinking deeper into the 'mud' (karmic bondage). So, from a very youg age I had felt that there is no end to this.

You can see a mountain from here. And you can see that one has to walk ten million miles in this direction to get there. _Mooah_! That is what you can see. But he will say, 'there is no bridge in the middle to get there'. So 'we' quikly built the bridge and are saying, 'now go this way.' Those acetics ( _sadhus_ ) have travelled six hundred thousand miles on a path of wrong direction and the destination is millions of miles away. Now they do not like to turn around and walk back those six hundred thousand miles. But we did not even walk in that direction did we? So what is there to get rid of? One has suffered for infinite lives, how much suffering! Has everyone attained internal harmony and peace? All these people ( _mahatmas_ ) who have come, they experience internal harmony and peace, do they not?

**Questioner** : Everyone.

**Dadashri** : Yes, it is a path of gold.

## Path to moksha is of internalized vision

Previously this man had tried very hard to change his activity and conduct ( _kriya_ ). The saints say, 'Change your actions this way. Change this action.' Hey, today's action is a reaction ( _pratikriya,_ effect). Can a reaction (effect) be changed? It is an effect. Why don't you make them stop the causes? I asked all these people ( _mahatmas_ ), 'Has Your opinion about sexuality changed?' and they said, 'Yes, completely, hundred percent'. So then You have nothing to do, no give or take, with reactions. Now this is a path of looking within and the world is involved in looking on the outside; how can the two work together even for an hour? Looking at your conduct, he will continue getting irritated. 'What are you going to Dada for? You have not improved at all; you are just the same as before', he will say.

## Do not expect changes in conduct in Akram Path

This body complex ( _pudgal_ ) is a _sthul_ (gross or tangible) thing and there is nothing that can be changed in the _sthul_ (gross). Whatever internal arrangements were made in the past life; is what will come out in conduct ( _aachar_ ) in this life. People look at the conduct of the _mahatmas_ of the Akram Vignan, 'just look at the conduct of the _mahatmas_ of Akram Vignan!' There is no point in looking at the conduct there, because conduct does not change. Everything else will change; internally there is a change, but not externally. _Moksha_ happens with internal changes. It may or may not with external changes.

**Questioner** : But internal change will result in an external change, will it not?

**Dadashri** : The external conduct will change in the next life. The discharge of today is the effect of all of the past life causes. The change in the external conduct may not even happen. If you become angry and scold your daughter in 'our' presence, 'we' will not 'see' it as Your fault. 'We' continue to 'know' ( _jaaniye_ ) that it is filled stock of karma that is coming out.

One person may walk fast and another may walk slowly; You cannot change that - that is the filled stock. There is no incoming (cause, charge), only the outgoing (effect) remains. Therefore, whoever's outgoing (files) becomes less; it will soon become empty for him. As there is no new incoming, it will come to end and thereafter, something new will happen for sure. So how long will this outgoing (files, discharging effect) last? It will last only for a certain time. Before, you had both, the incoming and the outgoing, so whatever was coming out was all mixed up. Now only the charge has been eliminated, leaving behind discharge and that discharge will come to an end.

**Questioner** : I took Gnan from You, and I have been attending _satsang_ for a year; now, I see a change in the external conduct. My words were harsh, now they have become mild.

**Dadashri** : As the filled stock of karma goes down, You will begin to see the change. You will not see as sudden a change as people would like to see. And you will know that it has become less. To others, Chandubhai will seem the same. When will they all see the change? When it all empties out, then they will feel that Chandubhai is not like he used to be.

## What the intent was at the time of filling will be the intent when it is emptying

What it is is that current life conduct ( _acharan_ ) is whatever was filled in the _pudgal_ (the body complex, the non-Self complex); that is what is coming out. What does _pudgal_ mean? It that which was filled _puran_. ' _Pur_ ' and ' _gal_ '. The word _pudgal_ is comprised of two words. _Pur_ means the stock that was filled. ( _'gal'_ means that which is emptying). Whatever filling _puran_ you had done in the past life; is emptying ( _galan_ ) in this life. Now tell me, what is the point of doing _raag_ - _dwesh_ (attachment-abhorrence) when this emptying is happening? You should have paid attention while filling. What is the point when it is emptying? There is no solution for it; it will continue to happen. 'You' have to keep 'seeing' whatever is happening; remain the 'Knower-Seer' of all that. You have to pay attention at the time of _puran_ (charging of karma). But at that time one had not met a Gnani Purush, so he went and 'bought' whatever he could from the market. What the intent ( _bhav_ ) was at the time of filling ( _bandha,_ charge of karma) will be the intent when it is emptying ( _nirjara,_ discharge of karma). Changes do not happen in discharge ( _nirjara_ ).

One can never say, 'now there is no objection'!

Some people have good external conduct but within there is much evil and bad. And our _mahatmas_ may have bad external conduct but how wise are they within!

**Questioner:** Your talk of filling and emptying with reference to conduct is a matter of the incontrovertible principle ( _siddhant_ ) but many times what happens with us is that we hang on to the single track of 'it is Dada's speech and guarantee', insisting that conduct is irrelevant and that it is more important to focus on the intent within.

**Dadashri:** One holds on to this, that is it. It is not necessary to hang on to that (without looking at everything else). 'You' do need to understand that if such things (bad conduct) happen, then you should not be afraid. But if you hold on to it (having no regard for bad conduct), then Your weakness will remain.

**Questioner:** We do hang on to it and we defend that view.

**Dadashri:** No, you cannot protect your self that way. Would you not make a firm decision to not fall into a well? Say there is a hundred or two hundred wells around here and you have to walk on a road that runs through them; even if you have to walk the road in dark, you will not fall in them. Because it is your decision that whatever happens you do not want to fall in the well, and so you will not fall. But if you try to 'protect the well' ('what's the big problem even if I fall into it?') and then walk, then you will fall. At least you need a decision ( _nischaya_ ), do you not? Why am I telling you this? It is not to bind you but to make you fearless. 'Your external conduct is wrong but you should not worry about it' - but that does not mean that you have to hang on to this statement; You just have to maintain that 'this must not be so', that is all. Then it is done. This the 'letting go of it.' What 'We' call as ' _vyavasthit_ ' is that, 'brother, drive your car with your eyes open and drive carefully and after that if there is an accident, then it is _vyavasthit_ '. If afterwards the fault (accident) happens, then there is no problem. That is _vyavasthit_ , but this much care should be taken.

**Questioner:** Dada, You are saying that just to make me fearless but along with that, should I not be concerned from the current unfolding conduct as to what kind of stock I had filled in my past life?

**Dadashri:** The remorse of why such a stock was filled in the past life should arise. But that happens to everyone. Everyone gets tired and weary from it and they don't like it, but what can one do? There is no other solution.

That is why this is one thing You must not say, 'From now on, there are no more problems for me'. 'You' cannot make such a reckless statement. That is all 'We' are trying to convey. Because what 'We' have given 'You', is with the knowledge that nothing is going to happen to You, provided you do not talk recklessly!

**Questioner:** But Dada, I have attained this Gnan and now what if I say that 'there is no problem for me to continue my work as a lawyer _vakilaat_ (along with the lack of ethics, here)', what then?

**Dadashri:** No, you cannot say such thing. Continue your work as a lawyer, as long as you want to, but this statement, 'there is no problem' that You said is what breaks that law. Do not create any dangers for yourself. To create danger is like removing the fishplate between two rails, it will derail the train. That is why 'We' (the Gnani Purush and the fully enlightened Lord within) have said, 'Do not speak negligently like, 'nothing is going to impede me!'' Now You must not say this, because some _mahatmas_ may make such statements to show off their boldness and power to others that 'now Dada is over me. Nothing is going to happen to me'. That power will become a hinderance. One cannot say such things.

**Questioner:** You have shown us such a straight and easy path, but after this if 'we' do not maintain constant awareness and follow the five Agnas then the Gnan which Dada has given 'us' will transform into a weapon.

**Dadashri:** Then one will be lost. It will not be wasted completely, many lifetimes will be reduced. But if these five Agnas are lost then You will not reach 'Your' intended destination quickly. This current era of the time cycle is one of _kusang_ (that which is against the Self). Everywhere there is _kusang_ , _kusang_ , _kusang_ ; it exists at home, at the office and in business. Today _satsang_ going on elsewhere are also nothing but _kusang_. If You go from here (Dada's _satsang_ ) to another place then all that is _kusang_ for You. Now in such a time if these five Agnas are not there, then that _kusang_ can destroy You – it will take you away in the worldly life. Therefore if You follow the five Agnas then _kusang_ will not touch You. Or else, stay put here, if You do not want to follow the five Agnas then stay around me, then also _kusang_ will not touch You.

Nonetheless, the positive inner _bhav_ intent begins for sure, the moment one takes this Gnan.

**Questioner:** It does happen, it is correct Dada. You had said that once You become positive the circumstances will come together.

**Dadashri:** Negativity in a person throws him in a puzzle. Therefore remain positive only. In this world, as long as a person has fear in him, he cannot accomplish any kind of religion in this world. By making the statement, "there is no fatherly boss ( _bapo_ ) up there over you", I remove your fear and panic from every angle. And any additional fear that arises is also removed, but if You take it in the negative sense, then it will lead to difficulties. That is not the kind of liberty 'I' want to give you.

**Questioner:** Dada what are the danger zones in the path of our spiritual progress? It is better to ask You now so that we do not have problems later on. It is better to ask now instead of taking any one of Your statements and using it out of context and without support .

**Dadashri:** By taking up a statement without reference to the entire context, a lot of trouble arises. If You ask me then there is no problem. Now the only risk is to make a statement like 'nothing is going to touch me'. 'We' have said that, "sexuality is not poison but fearlessness in sexuality is the poison". And he says, 'nothing can happen to me now, because I am with Dada'. Fearlessness here; is the only poison. If a person becomes reckless ( _beyfaam_ ) in this aspect, that is it, he is finished. That is not a position at all. You are neither in the Self nor are You in the 'file', such recklessness! 'No one can touch me' where did this come from?

**Questioner:** That is right, he is neither in the Self, nor in the file.

**Dadashri:** He does not exist in any of these two places and where did this new thing come from? So it is dangerous, that is why 'We' are saying, 'dear man, in order to get rid of your fear 'we' are telling that 'that sexuality is not poison, but fearlessness in sexuality is the poison.'

'I' have said all that after 'Seeing' in Gnan that conduct ( _acharan_ , _achaar_ ) is not the liability. Otherwise who will take on such tremendous liability in making such a statement? It is a big liability. But only then can You become free from fear and only then will You become free from having to do anything. Become free from fear and whatever doubts and suspicions You had will go away. 'This will happen' or 'that will happen', _mooah_ , nothing is going to happen! Nothing is going to happen to You; just say, 'you are and 'I' am'.

'You' should only have the opinion that 'I do not want this' or 'this is wrong'. If you have two opinions of, 'this is good' and 'that is good too', then it becomes ruined. Milk and yogurt cannot stay together. So 'We' do not have any problems with the conduct ( _kriya_ ). 'Your' conviction ( _pratiti_ ) should not change.

**Questioner** : If _pratiti_ (conviction) does not change, then whatever that remains, does it remain in the form of a discharge?

**Dadashri** : If _pratiti_ does not change, then that is enough. Then it is not Your responsibility, it is 'Mine'. If you say that 'this is good and that too is good, both are good', then the responsibility is Yours. For the One who upolds and is in, 'this should not happen', and it continues to happen despite that, then he is not responsible for it. But it will happen as long as there is a file. One day its account of karma will come to an end and it will be gone. Free of this and free of that too!

# [6.3] What comes first, faith or conduct?

## Do not find fault in conduct

**Questioner** : After attaing Gnan, I feel that nothing is coming into my conduct; I still get angry. I am not able to live as ideally as I ought to. So does that mean that _charitra moha_ still does not go away?

**Dadashri** : The _charitra moha_ will go away, if 'You' do not fault in the conduct ( _vartan_ ). If You 'see' the faults in the conduct then _charitra moha_ will not go away. 'You' should not find faults in the conduct at all. 'You' should keep 'seeing' what happens, what conduct happens. Finding faults with conduct means the same old _dehadhyas_ ('I am this body', 'I am Chandubhai') has arisen again. One became the self again. _Mooah_! When you were _agnani_ (not Self-realised), you were looking at faults. Now having attained the Gnan, you are still looking for faults in the conduct? Regardless of what the conduct is like, 'You' are not to find any fault in the conduct at all. Now 'You just have to continue to 'see' it. 'You' have come into this _Gnata-Drashta swabhaav_ , (the nature of the Self, the Knower-Seer). Before you used to be in the nature of doership _karta swabhav_. That old habit is still not going away.

## Faith-Experience-Conduct

One man knows that sexuality ( _abhramacharya_ ) is wrong. His faith ( _shraddha_ conviction) is in constantly practicing celibacy. Then it even comes into his experience ( _anubhav_ ) but it may not be so in his conduct ( _vartan_ ).

**Questioner** : So does faith ( _shraddha_ ) lead to experience ( _anubhav_ )?

**Dadashri** : It has come into faith, now that which has come in faith will gradually continue to come into experience. When the experience becomes complete, then it manifests in conduct. It may not even be in conduct. That is why You are not to see one's conduct. 'You' have to 'see' what the faith is in, because all three do not happen at the same time.

**Questioner** : One by one, step by step.

**Dadashri** : Yes. That is why 'We' take this responsibility, do 'We' not? 'We' 'know' that there will not be any problem once 'we' change his faith ( _shraddha_ ). Let people complain about other things. 'We' change his faith. 'We' remove the spinner (cause) in the cycle of cause and effect and let You stand alone, out it. And people try to change conduct (effect). That is not the way to do it at all. When will conduct change? When the faith (conviction) changes, then after many life times pass by, thereafter the knowledge (gnan) changes, then the conduct will change.

Just because 'I' can 'see' bad conduct, does that mean I have to scold anyone? No, I have to do _vidhi_ (silent blessings of the Gnani Purush) for them. 'We' do not 'see' anyone's conduct; 'I' 'know' what is in his faith. Now tell me, should any one fight over conduct?

**Questioner** : No we should not.

**Dadashri** : 'You' just have to 'see' whether his faith has changed or not. No one will open up such a Vignan to the world. Outside, they look for one's conduct; they look for a child (conduct improvement). Hey you _mooah_! How can there be a child without a mother and a father? So they (who look for conduct change) will reply, 'no, the mother and father will come if the child is there.' Is that ever possible?

**Questioner** : It is not possible, but they believe so, do they not?

**Dadashri** : That is how crazy their belief is. 'Your' conduct has not changed, but has Your faith changed or not?

**Questioner** : Yes, it has.

**Dadashri** : So then, has some change happened in the Gnan or not? Has it come into Your experience (Gnan) that 'this conduct is verily wrong,' and yet that conduct happens; does that happen or not?

**Questioner** : Yes.

## Eventually One will become a Gnani

**Dadashri** : You are only the Knower. Why worry unnecessarily, and if worry does happen, it happens to Chandubhai, what is it to You? And as this Gnan manifests, all that will go away too. Chandubhai, himself will become a Gnani. Gnan should manifest. The result has to come. But people say it does not come into conduct. Hey, You do not have to bring it into conduct. This Gnan is not Gnan of conduct . You just have to have its conviction ( _pratiti_ ) only.

**Questioner** : Then the conviction works.

**Dadashri** : The conviction ( _pratiti_ ), 'this is flimsy' is established. What will be the fruit of such a conviction? Everyday you will experience ( _anubhav_ ) that 'this is flimsy...this is flimsy for sure'. Then it comes in conduct ( _vartan_ ), 'this is flimsy' and therefore you will not touch it.

'We' ( _mahatmas_ ) are on the side of the Self ( _Atma_ _paksha_ ). The side of the worldly life has not yet gone away. The conviction ( _shraddha_ ) is set that this is wrong, but it will take time for it to manifest into conduct. So, till then, the intellect ( _buddhi_ ) keeps working, and You will know that it is interfering because 'You' have the conviction now. So therefore 'You' 'know' that 'this is wrong', and that 'You' want to be free. But even then this freedom does not happen, does it?

**Questioner** : So, when will it come into conduct?

**Dadashri** : It first comes into Your faith ( _shraddha_ , _pratiti_ ); it comes into Your understanding ( _samajan, darshan_ ). Faith has arisen. 'What Dada has said, that understanding fits with me. The Self became the Self, and the rest (non-Self), became the rest (non-Self). It became separate. That comes into 'Your' understanding. Then, it slowly comes in Gnan, it comes into 'Your' experience ( _anubhav_ ) and after coming into 'Your' experience, it comes into conduct ( _vartan_ ).

**Questioner** : Whatever _kriya_ (activity through mind-speech-body) happens during the time after attaining the understanding ( _samjan_ , _darshan_ ) and attaining conduct ( _vartan_ ), is it a charge or a discharge?

**Dadashri** : No, it is not a charge. It will take time for it to discharge completely. If it is light, it will go away, within one lifetime. If it is a very heavy, it will take longer. But it should come into experience.

**Questioner** : Can that tuber be dissolved through _pratikraman_?

**Dadashri** : The tuber becomes lighter with _pratikraman_. But it should come into experience ( _anubhav_ ).

When not even an atom's worth of pleasure ( _sukha_ ) is felt in the worldly life; then it is considered to have come completely into experience (of the Self, Gnan).

As far as conduct is concerned, if one goes to sleep and has a wonderful sleep, then he will say, 'I had wonderful sleep'. 'What do you still find pleasure in?' He will say, from the sleep. That is not the bliss from the Self. And all the worldly pleasure is gone with the conviction ( _pratiti_ 'I am pure Soul'). After attaining Gnan, after attaining the Self, everything starts going away for sure, what else can it do? It is going away. Otherwise, it will not leave in a hundred thousand life times. If it is removed once (by self effort), it will stick again!

## Moha starts falling off

So that has come into understanding. Understanding means that one is established in the conviction that 'there is no pleasure in gold', but deriving pleasure in it is the conduct. 'You' have come to attain the understanding that pleasure does not lie in gold, because You (the Self) have become separate, but it has not yet come into Your Gnan. In Gnan means, that it has not come into Your experience. If you are wearing gold and someone robs it away from you, you will come to realize that 'alas! It is indeed wrong to have this illusory attachment ( _moha_ ) for gold'. Having taken the beating ( _maar_ ) it comes into your _gnan_ , experience. Once it comes into experience, it will then come into your conduct. Then you will not wear gold.

So has Your faith in gold (taking pleasure in gold) gone away?

**Questioner** : Yes, a lot.

**Dadashri** : The faith in gold is gone. But it still remains in your conduct, what is the reason for that? The current conduct will remain as long as the filled stock of karma is still there, after that you will not even feel like wearing it. This is how one starts to lose all faith. One had faith that there is pleasure in gold, there is pleasure in money etc., that faith of pleasure is now going away and You begin to have faith in the Other (the Self). You don't have too much desire for gold now, do you?

**Questioner** : No.

**Dadashri** : What about shopping?

**Questioner** : The shopping has stopped. I have to buy necessary things. Before there was desire to buy this and buy that; all that is gone.

**Dadashri** : Everything will go away slowly and the mind will be peaceful. There is endless pain even while shopping, restlessness when spending the dollars, And with this, it does not cost anything and there is peace!

**Questioner** : It seems there are still some intentions that my interactions with the family should happen properly.

**Dadashri** : That is should be done properly is one reality but ultimately whatever happens is also correct. In reality it should be that you want to go to India. But then if the plane crashes, then that too is correct. You cannot deny that, can you? So there is nothing else. You should maintain a positive account and let go of anything negative that happens. Because all this does not live or die; the Self does not live nor does it die.

## Pratiti is sarvaswa

Our _mahatmas_ have the Gnan, they have everything, but it is in their conviction ( _pratiti_ ). 'We' consider _pratiti_ as all encompassing ( _sarvaswa_ ). It may not be in 'Your' conduct, 'We' do not ask for it. If it is in Your conviction, then everything will become complete ( _sarvaswa_ ). Because the one with conviction will become complete (ideal worldly conduct and experience of the Self) and the one who is regarded as complete (ideal wordly interaction) may or may not be so.

Today his conduct may be very good but inside his conviction may be filled with hurtful thoughts. 'You' have to 'see' where the conviction lies; You don't have to 'see' anything else.

With _mahatmas_ , say they have two suitcases and the wife puts some of her clothes in the husband's suitcase, he will get upset when he notices them. 'Why did you have to touch my suitcase in any case?' Just look! He has this Gnan, he has the conviction but his conduct is still like this, is it not? His conduct has not changed yet. It will take a while for his conduct to change. 'Why did you touch my suitcase?' Will he not make it an issue of 'mine' and 'yours'? Take 'your suitcase' from here. Now, that stock is what was filled of past life conviction. The conviction that 'He' has today, wait and 'see' when its results come! Therefore, 'We' change his conviction and his knowledge. With the establishment of the conviction ( _pratiti_ ) becomes es a time of golden ages ( _satyug_ ) has begun for Him. There is not much problem after the conviction is established.

## It comes in conduct after it comes in understanding

If someone tells you that he has understood the instructions of how to get to a destination, but then he ends upon the wrong road, would you not understand that he did not have the right understanding? He will not get lost, if he has understood the instructions. Understand such that You will not get lost in the path. And when you get lost, then understand that you had not understood the path, and yet you claim I had understood it. If the understanding were there; then the exact results would come, will it not? You understand everything, don't You? If it does not come into the understanding, then it may not come into conduct. As the _mahatmas_ are beginning to understand, I see it coming in their conduct. I can even know that it has become established in his understanding and it has manifested in his conduct.

**Questioner** : Does that mean that when the _kashayas_ (anger-pride-deceit-greed) go away; when no kind of _kashaya_ arises, it has definitely come into the understanding ( _samaj_ , _darshan_ )?

**Dadashri** : That means that a very high level of understanding has arisen. That is considered a very high level of understanding. That is a different matter altogether!

## Fragrance attracts people

**Questioner:** Will the fragrance of the blooming conduct of those who have come to know Dada and remain in His _satsang_ become evident outwardly?

**Dadashri:** As much as everything blossoms, that much fragrance will spread. It will spread on the outside if it has blossomed within and it will also spread on the outside if it has blossomed on the outside. That which has blossomed does not remain a secret. You know what, even if you were to decide in your mind that you do not want to cause any _mahatma_ any inconvenience, then that _bhaav_ also will reach the _mahatmas_. Even if you don't say anything to anyone about it, it will reach them; such is this Vignan. So many sins have been washed to such an extent that tremendous clarity is present within, and now at this time if You were to quietly do some such work from within, even then it will reach everyone.

**Questioner:** But Dada, what I want to say is that whoever comes to Dada feels such a deep inner intent ( _bhavna_ ) of 'what I have received, how can everyone else receive tha !' Now if I try to give 'it' to them, they will look at my conduct first.

**Dadashri:** Yes, but of course they will see that!

**Questioner:** So now those who come to Dada, they expect certain level of discipline from _mahatmas..._

**Dadashri:** That will come gradually. But if you will try to do something right now, then they will see something else in you and find faults with you, 'why are you doing this work of a lawyer?' they will question. So what you should do is, somehow or the other, gently manage to bring them here to Me. I will put them on the right track. Many have been settled, haven't they? If you try to put them on the right track at this time, it will not work. This is because they will take objection saying, 'why you are doing like this?' but they will not say that to Me. About Me, there is nothing that they can comment on.

## Do not see their conduct but see the vitaragata

**Questioner:** I want to open up my heart about one thing. All the celebrations that take place on your birthday etc., there are tremendous intents to celebrate them in a grand way. Even all the visitors have great intents. But right at the end, I feel certain arrangements are not satisfactory at all. They become so mismanaged, that people we have invited for the occasion end up leaving with a completely different impression.

**Dadashri** : That is true.

**Questioner** : So, what should we do about that, Dada?

**Dadashri** : When that happens, the reason is that one does not care about being appreciated or discredited. They are just settling it with equanimity. So they do not care whether it will look good on the outside or not.

**Questioner** : Dada, this is a very profound talk.

**Dadashri** : I know why it does not happen. So then how can one cope with this? That nature is not going to go away and what do 'we' want by wanting it to go away? Whatever happens is correct; there must be some other benefits in that, no? There is no need to look back once it is dealt with. Whereas, elsewhere one worries right till the end, 'my name will be ruined...my thing will look bad...that will happen to me...it will look bad!' Did you understand that? This is the main deficiency.

**Questioner** : This explanation clarifies a lot Dada.

**Dadashri** : No. So I had understood what was wrong. We attempted to correct this issue, but then 'We' understood what the deficiency was. But it was not possible to correct the deficiency.

**Questioner** : That deficiency is not likely to correct. But nonetheless, there is excellent benefit in 'our' celebrations.

**Dadashri** : Yes,'we' are concerned is what 'we' get out of it. We do not want prestige or fame, do 'we'?

**Questioner** : But Dada, 'we' have come with such an upbringing that when those qualities arise, we feel that outsiders that we bring here should also become impressed.

**Dadashri** : By him being impressed, it does not at all mean that he will improve. It is enough for them to just come in contact with the _mahatmas_. There is no point in them becoming impressed by these people's work, is there? The one who comes close will be impressed for sure.

**Questioner** : Now, from where they come, they have the best discipline and the best of arrangements.

**Dadashri** : Everything else will be everywhere. Here, only discipline is not there.

**Questioner** : I have said it from the heart, Dada. But when we go to some other functions, when we look at their discipline...

**Dadashri** : All that is artificial, here there is nothing artificial.

**Questioner** : But Dada, what happens here is if people are assigned certain tasks and responsibilities, as soon as they see Dada, they abandon everything and run off to see You. So what should 'we' do about that? Should they not feel 'Here I am doing Dada's work and that in itself is Dada and so I should not go running over there'?

**Dadashri** : Not everyone's _prakruti_ is like that, is it?

**Questioner** : Dada, it has completely become like that; the situation here has become like the _gopis_ (the young women that used to run after Lord Krishna with divine devotion). Just like the _gopis_ who used to go off running, leaving their husbands, homes and everything else behind. That is the state of everyone here.

**Dadashri** : That is how this is. Whatever it is, that is the justice. Each is according to his own _prakruti_. If someone eats only rice, he will say 'feed everyone only rice', then what will be left? There will be hardly any rice left for you. It is all according to one's account. And whoever you bring over, tell him that these people do not care about such things, so in the end do not pay any attention to 'it should be like this' or 'it should be like that'. What is worth seeing is the _vitaragata_ (absence of _raag-dwesh_ ). Yes, that is the way it is here for sure.

**Questioner** : But what is the harm in having discipline? Why should we not have discipline?

**Dadashri** : For that, a doer self has to be 'placed'.

**Questioner** : That is not possible to do in this Gnan at all.

**Dadashri** : And with that other; whatever is there, is coming out.

**Questioner** : My doubts are resolved but all the values that I was brought up with keep prodding me.

**Dadashri** : Whatever it is, it is fine. 'We' too had made the calculations. At first 'we' too felt that 'why is this wrong thing happening?' Then 'we' got rid of it. We have to bring about a final settlement ( _nivedo_ ). Here, you have to see the _vitaragata_ ; you have to see the love. Tell them from the start what these people's _prakruti_ is like. Tell them to come here if they would like to see people's _vitaragata_.

**Questioner** : Dada, does that mean that there should not be any planning or systematic arrangements made for such events?

**Dadashri** : There is no problem with planning either. But only the stock that was filled will discharge, nothing else will come out, will it? Even if you do the planning, only that which one has in stock will come out. New ego will not arise, will it?

**Questioner** : But, what happens is as part of the arrangement, I have been told to stand in a certain place and guide the visitors and other _mahatmas_ , but when I see Dada, I leave all the arrangements to _vyavasthit_ , and join in with the crowd standing with Dada.

**Dadashri** : If this Gnan is given to the musicians, they too will also come away. What I say is that these 'travellers' (on this Akram path) are different, and those others are different.

**Questioner** : Dada, my heart has accepted what You say.

**Dadashri** : So people tell me that our disciples are not advanced. That is why I said, they are going to advance. We are concerned with _moksha_ ; we are not concerned with anything else.

**Questioner** : When 'we' set out to do work of the salvation of the world ( _jagat kalian_ ), the inner intent 'we' have and the basis on which everyone comes here, if they see this part of the arrangements, does that give vigour to the activity of the work or will 'we' have to do something else?

**Dadashri** : 'Your' inner intent ( _bhavna_ ) is needed and not the ( _kriya_ ) activity for salvation of the people. As far as this other activity is concerned, only the karmic stock that has been filled within will come out, no? What will come out; the stock that is stored within or some other stock?

**Questioner** : Only that will come out, Dada. But the question I have is when gatherings happen, when 'we' gather all these _prakrutis_ together, with everything that happens, should 'we' not think about making arrangements, or should 'we' consider it as being _vyavasthit_?

**Dadashri** : It is _vyavasthit_ for sure. Whatever lines 'You' draw (interference), will all have to be erased again. We drew them (past life) and we have to erase them (this life). But it is better to erase them once, such that the mistake will not be repeated, will it?

**Questioner** : However, there is one thing for sure, when people come and sit here and listen to You, they are dazzled with the joy they see and when they hear 'Dada Bhagwan na aseem jai jai kar ho,' so many people become very impressed after coming here.

**Dadashri** : All that has to be 'seen'.

**Questioner** : That such is this crowd, it is like this...

**Dadashri** : They have not seen anything like this, have they?

**Questioner** : There is nothing we can say to anyone about that.

**Dadashri** : They have not seen a world like this.

**Questioner** : But Dada the things they have read before we bring them here to witness all this, becomes the problem.

**Dadashri** : You have to tell them what it is like here. Tell them that, to see the _vitaragata_ (absence of _raag-dwesh_ )) of people, and if they have any difficulty, then they are to let you know, that is all. Otherwise, this is a museum of difficulties. This crowd is of a different kind. And this crowd does a good job, does it not? Did you see any complaints when they were eating in a large crowd there? They will not complain.

**Questioner** : So Dada what should I do when I get worked up because of my upbringing?

**Dadashri** : That is all filled stock of karma discharging now. Others do not have that kind. There is nothing left to do, whatever is within, it will come out and happen. Nothing new is going to come.

**Questioner** : That is correct Dada, but this is all a Ph.D. level talk. Everyone we gather here are all grade school level. Everyone understands Dada's Vignan, all the literary people will explain this Vignan, but how can we expect a Ph.D. level of conduct from conduct?

**Dadashri** : You have to tell them; here it is worth seeing the _vitaragata_. What you see here is completely different as compared to what you see elsewhere in the world. Here, it is worth seeing the love ( _prem_ ). Solution for what you are searching, will not come.

**Questioner** : But these outsiders, when they ask questions like this, at that time I feel 'is that all they saw here? Could they not find anything else to see here?'

**Dadashri** : But, what else can you do when his vision ( _drashti_ ) is like that? How is it that poor man's fault? If the vision is wrong, he will see it wrong, will he not? You should be happy that he sees with what he has.

That is why 'We' have said, 'no law – law'! This law is without any laws. Do You, like this Gnan or not?

**Questioner:** Dada, there is no doubt about it at all.

**Dadashri** : Yes, so then that is the only thing that You have to 'see'. Others do not have such a 'Vision', do they? If his vision is wrong, then he will not get along even with Me. If you bring him here and his vision is wrong, then he will not get along with Me. You know that, the right thing is him getting along with 'Me'.

'Our' interaction ( _vyavahar_ ) is pure ( _shuddha_ ). Now people come here looking for good-auspicious interaction ( _shubha vyavahar_ ). They come Ours is a pure ( _shuddha_ ) interaction. Ours is for further progress towards ( _anusangik_ ) the Self.

**Questioner** : I understand that even despite the lack of proper planning and arrangements, the group here is getting bigger by the day.

**Dadashri** : What happens with arranged management? The ego makes it disorderly and disturbed ( _avyavasthit_ ).

**Questioner** : But Dada, even in the worldly interactions people's expectations are whether some of our garbage is gone and that we should improve and that they should be able to see some improvement in us.

**Dadashri** : Yes. But he will see that if he looks deeper. How will he 'see' it in this of ours? How will he find it? If everyone knew how to recognize gold, why would there be a need for goldsmith? And even the goldsmith needs a large black stone (medium for testing gold). "Maharaj, will you as a senior experienced goldsmith, need the stone even in your old age?' He will say, 'I will need that stone. Without the stone I cannot test the gold.' If you say to him, 'If I rub the gold on the stone, it will work for me, will it not?' He will say, 'No it will not.' So, one needs an understanding of the experience, does he not?

These people from outside, claim,'we have understanding too, of experience'. So how can one test this? These people do say that, 'we accept this Dada. Dada is perfect, but none of you have any substance. You are all just talk!' In addition, they even tell others that 'we accept Dada'. How would they know what path all of You ( _mahatmas_ ) are on?

## The process of purification within

For our _mahatmas_ , first the mind becomes pure ( _shuddha_ ) then the speech becomes pure. When the speech becomes pure, then the conduct will become pure. But first the mind should become pure. By whatever degree the mind becomes pure; the speech becomes pure by that many degress. By whatever degress the speech becomes pure; the conduct becomes pure by that many degrees. Conduct is the last to change. There is not much value in conduct. The Lord has not put much value on conduct and the world puts value on conduct. Conduct can be understood from this example of _ghee._ When unclarified butter ( _makhan_ ) is heated at a high temperature; then it is ready as _ghee_ (clarified butter). The final product is _ghee._ When this _ghee_ is cooled it solidifies and so it will not flow from a small clay jug, so one cannot see it. Therefore, one cannot say that it is not there in the jug. One cannot say that it has not come into conduct (the _ghee_ is the conduct). The Akram Vignani is saying just this that what the whole world believes in; this Akram Vignan is completely different. The whole world believes in conduct. They say, 'No matter what is in your mind but your conduct is very good' and the Akram Gnani says, 'no, you fool the danger lies in this that is happening in the mind'. No matter how good your conduct is, but if your mind is bad, then that is your account of karma for the next life. You will get appreciated for your good external conduct here in this life but you have ruined your next life, haven't you? And the world does not care about the next life. Everything looks goody-goody right now because they do not have the right vision ( _samyak drashti_ ); they have the illusory vision ( _mithya_ _drashti_ ).

You will get nowhere if you try to look for conduct in _mahatmas_. Conduct is attained after a long time. And this time era is not conducive for it. This is a slippery time era. We cannot attain anything in it now. Instead just let it go. Put conduct aside and let the mind become pure. The Self has become pure. Now, first the purity of the mind is continuously taking place. Once the Self is attained the purity is there within, then keep 'seeing' what discharges from the mind and so the mind becomes pure. The mind of the world continues to become impure. One becomes engrossed ( _tanmayakar_ ) with whatever is discharging. He will say, 'I had a thought, I had a thought.' You ask, 'Hey, even a bad thought?' and he will say, 'I am the one having the bad thought.' Hey you! How can You have a bad thought? When it is not Your wish, how can bad thoughts come to You? Is the mind your owner? But it is an illusion that he has of 'I am having the thoughts'. Who else can have thoughts? Who else is there within? There are many within. All the Kauravas and the Pandavas, Lord Krishna; the entire Mahabharat is sitting within!

# [7] Real Purushartha

## Real purushartha begins with following the Agna

**Questioner** : Please explain the difference between the real _purushartha_ and the relative _purushartha_?

**Dadashri** : In real _purushartha_ , nothing needs to be done _._ The difference between the two is that real _purushartha_ means to 'see' and to 'know'. And what does relative _purushartha_ mean? It means to do _bhaav,_ to have inner intent, 'This is what I will do!'

There are two kinds of _purushartha_. One is that which arises from _prarabdha,_ which is effect of _karma_. It is a _purushartha_ arising from seed (cause) sown from _prarabdha_ (effect of _karma_ in this life), it is called relative _purushartha._ The second type is a _purushartha_ arising after one becomes a _purush,_ Self-realised, and this is called real _purushartha._ When I gave you Gnan, You-the Self became separate from the _prakruti, the_ non-Self. 'I am _Shuddhatma_ ' is _purush_ and any _purushartha_ after that is real _purushartha_. That other _purushartha_ is _purushartha_ but it is an illusory ( _bhrant_ ) _purushartha_. One cannot say that it is a wrong _purushartha_ , but it is not what people believe to be. No one is right in what these people believe, as far as _purushartha_ is concerned.

**Questioner** : So that other _purushatha_ , the one Dada helps us attain, please explain that.

**Dadashri** : The _purushartha_ You were doing as Chandubhai was an illusory ( _bhrant_ ) _purushartha_. But when You do the _purushartha_ as 'I am _Shuddhatma_ ', and remain in Dada's five Agna, that is real _purushartha_. You are doing _purushartha_ after becoming a _purush_ , and that is real _purushartha_. So, it is when You remain in the five Agna.

**Questioner** : So then what is the scope for any other _purushartha_?

**Dadashri** : _Purushartha_ is when You follow My Agna. There is no need for any other _purushartha_. The rest is _vyavasthit_. All those Agna are only for a _purush,_ the Self, not for the _prakruti,_ the relative self.

**Questioner** : The seed of Gnan that you sowed, is that the light ( _prakash_ )?

**Dadashri** : That is the One! But it is in the form of ' _bija',_ the second day of lunar fortnight. Now, it will gradually become ' _punam_ ', full moon. Real _purushartha_ begins from the moment the _pudgal,_ the non-Self complex, and the _purush,_ the Self, become separate. Yes where _purushartha_ begins, it will take one from second day of the moon to full moon. That happens when One follows the Agna. One does not have to do anything else at all. Nothing is to be done, except follow the Agna.

**Questioner** : Dada, please, at least describe the _purushartha_ after One becomes a _purush_. How does he do it in the worldly life interaction ( _vyavahar_ )?

**Dadashri** : All our mahatmas are in worldly life interactions, are they not? They remain in the five Agna, do they not? Five Agna is verily Dada. That is the real _purushartha_.

## Purushartha: to follow the Agna; to remain in the Agna

Following the five Agna is considered _purushartha_ , and what is the result of the five Agna? They help one remain in the ' _gnata_ - _drashta_ ' 'knower-seer' state. And if one asks 'us', what is real _purushartha_ called? 'We' will tell him, 'It is to remain the knower-seer!' These five Agna teach You 'knowing-seeing', do they not? Relative and real, while seeing that, if any thoughts arise, say " _vyavasthit_ " and stop them. If thoughts of future bother You at the time of seeing the real-relative, say " _vyavasthit_ " and they will stop. And Your 'seeing' will continue. If any file is bothering you at that time, then deal with it, with equanimity and continue 'seeing. This is how the Agna keeps You in the knower-seer state.

Remaining in 'our' Agna is _purushartha_. What other _purushartha_ is there, after becoming a _purush_? And when the 'fruit' of following the Agna comes, one can remain as the Self, naturally ( _sahaj_ ) , without the Agna. That is also considered as _purushartha_. It is considered a great _purushartha_. This _purushartha_ is through Agna and that other is natural _purushartha_.

**Questioner** : Is there a need to do that other _purushartha_ , once one comes into natural _purushartha_?

**Dadashri** : Then there is no need for it, is it? That other will leave on its own.

**Questioner** : _Purushartha_ arises naturally when one meets a Gnani Purush, does it not?

**Dadashri** : Yes, it arises naturally! That is _purushartha_ in the form of Agna, from which arises natural _purushartha_.

## Knowing-seeing is the real purushartha

**Questioner** : The time that One remains as the knower-seer, is that _purushartha_?

**Dadashri** : Yes. Or see _Shuddhatma_ (the Self) in others, or even if You follow My Agna, that is _purushartha_. When You follow 'our' five Agna, there is _purushartha_ there. When One remains in the five Agna, it is _shuddha upyoga,_ pure applied awareness as the Self. Otherwise One has to 'see' the _prakruti_ , the relative self. If Chandubhai is nagging at his wife, at that time, You should 'see' this with, 'Wow! Chandubhai, you are just the same you were before!' seeing all that is _purushartha_.

**Questioner** : But, in that matter, does one have to have to do any _purushartha_ for the awareness ( _jagruti_ ) or should he just remain the knower-seer?

**Dadashri** : Remaining the knower-seer is verily the true _purushartha_. To remain in One's state of the _gnayak_ (absolute knower) only, that is the _purushartha_. And to remain continuously as the knower-seer, is called _charitra_ , absolute conduct as the Self; it is called _samyak_ _charitra._

## Keeping Gnan and agnan separate is real purushartha

_Purushartha_ is needed in separating Gnan-agnan ( _Gnan_ \- knowledge of the Self. _Agnan_ – all knowledge except the knowledge of the Self, ignorance), and when you come into _charitra_ , remain as the knower-seer, then _purushartha_ is not necessary. _Charitra_ is called _swabhaav,_ state of the Self. Where is the effort in being the Self? _Purushartha_ has to be done in order to come into _charitra_ , to remain as the'knower-seer', to come into natural state of the Self, by separating Gnan and _agnan_ , real and relative. _Bhedavignani_ , Scientist of the knowledge of separation, can do that, no one else can, can they? And as You follow the science of separation, you cannot do the separation for others, but You can preserve Your own with, 'this part is of the Self, and this is the rest'. A true _bhedavignani_ can help others attain the separation.

So, good worldly conduct ( _vyavahar charitra_ ) is not _purushartha,_ but to separate Gnan and _agnan_ , real and relative, to separate using the science of separation; that is all _purushartha_. Wherever there is _gnankriya,_ 'knowing', or _darshankriya_ , 'seeing', there is _purushartha_ there. The Self does not have any other activity. In _darshankriya,_ the word ' _kriya',_ 'action' is used so that people can understand it. Otherwise, the Self does not have any _kriya_ , action per se. Wherever _kriya,_ action of doing _,_ is involved, it is "mechanical". And there is no _moksha_ where there is "'mechanical".

**Questioner** : Separating Gnan and _agnan_ , is that _purushartha_?

**Dadashri** : That is the _purushartha_. You remain in the _Shuddhatma_ , in _shukladhyan_ , pure meditation as the Self; that is _purushartha_. You are in the _Shuddhatma_ state and if someone is insulting you, then it will feel that he is doing that to you. To believe that he is doing it, is a mistake in your understanding. He too is a _Shuddhatma_ and whatever he is doing is dependent on the unfolding of _karma_. He is not the doer. That poor man is dependent on unfolding _karma_ ( _udayakarma_ ). The 'tops' are 'spinning' and everyone's unfolding _karma_ , complete the worldly interaction ( _vyavahar_ ), in front of each other. 'You' (the Self) have to 'see' what the two _pudgals_ , non-Self complexes, are doing to each other. To 'see' all this is _purushartha_. Hence, when You remain as the knower-seer, when the last of that which needs to separate happens (the final separation of Gnan- _agnan_ ), then what remains is the Self only, and that is Your state, _swabhaav_. The very nature that is in the _Siddhkshetra,_ the abode of the absolutely liberated Souls, is the state ( _swabhav_ ) that arises here. That is how everything will be resolved.

## Who make you do purushartha?

Our _purushartha_ and _parakram_ (extraordinary effort towards _purushartha_ ) have arisen. Now this attribute of _purushartha_ is not in the Self; it is the nature of the _shakti_ , energy, called _pragyna_. So if You decide that you want to remain in this _purushartha_ , then You will definitely remain in it. However, if something impedes this _purushartha_ , then 'say' " _vyavasthit_ ".

## Purushartha as _nischaya_

**Questioner** : Dada, are there some _antaraya_ - _karma,_ obstructing _karma_ ; that set me behind in my Gnan or awareness?

**Dadashri** : However you want to see it; _antaraya-karma_ or weakness in Your _purushartha_. I have opened up this _purushartha_ for You. From the moment 'I' made You _Shuddhatma_ , Your _puruashartha_ is open, easy for You to proceed. So the weakness lies in Your _purushartha_.

You have to decide on the _purushartha_. When You make a firm decision ( _nischaya_ ), then _purushartha_ will happen on its own. You just have to make a _nischaya,_ a firm decision. You have not made a _nischaya_ that You want to remain as the Self, 'I am _Shuddhatma_ ' ( _abhedabhaav_ ). That _nischaya_ is still weak, so that is why the weakness remains. When You make that decision firm, then everything will go fine.

Once the _nischaya_ is made, then everything will move forward. What happens if you do not have a _nischaya_ that you want to go to the airport?

**Questioner** : I cannot go.

**Dadashri** : Someone will say, 'You have gone the wrong way'. If it is wrong, it is wrong, but you need a _nischaya_ (decision to follow or implement) do you not? The other way, you neither go the right way nor the wrong way. If you are on the wrong path, you will find at least someone to show you the right path. But how can anyone show you the right path, when you are not even on the wrong one?

**Questioner** : So, what I was trying to say that, first the _nischaya_ happens that I want to follow the Agna.

**Dadashri** : Then you can follow anything. _Nischaya_ can do everything. _Nischaya_ can work in a situation, no matter how bad it is. If one makes a _nischaya_ that he wants to put in a railway line, he will start doing that, he will not get into any other unnecessary discussions. As long as a _nischaya_ has not been made, one will keep getting confused and entangled. He will plan and then change the plans; he will not attain anything.

Actually, You are in the _purushartha_ , because after attaining the Self, _purushartha_ and _parakram_ arise. But if one cannot do _parakram_ , he will do the _purushartha_. _Parakram_ example is that if a dog is covered with dust which is blowing all day, it will get rid of it one time by shaking its body like this. It will become clean. That is called _parakram_. Have not seen that, what the dog does?

**Questioner** : It cleans its whole body like that.

**Dadashri** : Which professor taught the dog to do that? Will it know without being taught by a professor? But how it cleans itself! Not a spot of dust remains. You have become a _purush_ ; hence the energy of the _purush_ is with _purushartha_. It is with the _parakram_ of the Self. 'We' roam the world within an hour with the _parakram_ of the Self. After making You _purush_ , after you become _Shuddhatma_ , Your energies increase tremendously. If You maintain the awareness ( _laksha_ ) in this and remain in Our touch, it will help You a lot.

## Purushartha of the Self is on auto-pilot

**Questioner** : Dada, has Your _antahkaran_ , the inner working complex comprising the mind, intellect, chit and ego, automatically taken shape like that?

**Dadashri** : No, it has not taken shape, it has all gone away, the mind became exhausted. When One does not remain in that, and remains in the Self, then it will quickly disperse.

**Questioner** : Then there is no _purushartha_ left?

**Dadashri** : Your _purushartha_ as the Self, is constantly there, is it not?

**Questioner** : But all this _antahkaran_ became quiet, so then there is not any _purushartha_ over there, is there?

**Dadashri** : One's _purushartha_ continues. It will continue, as long as _sookshmattar_ (subtler) and _sookshmattam_ (subtlest) mistakes remain, otherwise it will still remain until one attains _kevalgnan,_ absolute knowledge. After becoming a _purush,_ the Self, one remains _purusharthi,_ one who does _purushartha_.

## Path of moksha, pure as pure gold

_Purushartha_ cannot happen without You first becoming a _purush_. When You attain the awareness, You begin to see your mistakes; you begin to see without partiality. When you start to understand every mistake of 'Chandubhai'; that is when You attain a state of impartiality. That is when judgement power comes and real _purushartha_ begins.

You should also "study" to see whether there is a change in your speech, conduct and humility. You will have to become like Dada, will You not? Then only will You go to _moksha_. There is only one quality of everyone in _moksha_ , is there not? Complete one hundred percent purity, is it not? Will ten percent be acceptable? Hence this whole path is one of purification ( _shuddhikaran_ ).

If there is any intent of going to _moksha_ , if there is intent to attain anything, the tendencies will remain _tanmayakar,_ engrossed in it. So there should be intensity towards that side. Intensity ( _tivrata_ ) means You must have strong and powerful _purushartha_.

**Questioner** : After coming to Dada, I am convinced that Dada is _dehdhari_ _parmatma_ , embodiment of absolute enlightened Self, so then if I have intense _purushartha_...

**Dadashri** : That is it, it is more than enough. He is free, there is no other problem. There is nothing harmful and he has been given an exact guide line (like a plumb-line) for his worldly life interaction; because, until then he had worries about running his worldly life. But now he is given a guide line such that even his worldly life will be taken care of by _vyavasthit_. He has been given everything with all the guide lines. So, he has been given everything leaving him without any worries. But in the _kramik_ path, one has problems of running his home, worries about the future. Here, there are no worries or anything else about the future. The past is gone; the future is under the control of _vyavasthit_ , so You should remain constantly in the present – _vartaman_. You will not make such a connection again. Free _moksha_ , without any effort!

## Get you work done in Dada's presence

**Questioner** : Before, I could not see anything like my own mistake. Now I can see a ton of them. It seems like I have warehouses full of mistakes.

**Dadashri** : Is that so? The stock is stored in the warehouse, is it not? There is no problem. As long as You are coming to Dada, as long as You are subservient to Him, you do not have to worry about anything. You just have to have the inner intent of 'it will be nice if it all goes away, it will be nice if the whole stock empties.'

Everything is possible, as long as Dada is there. When he is not there, You will then have to do a lot of _purushartha_. You have to do a lot of _purushartha_ in his absence. As long as he is here, you get to do His _vidhis_ , attend his _satsang_ , and when you do all that, all that stock will be destroyed. Merely seeing Dada, just his _darshan_ , destroys many of the mistakes.

**Questioner** : But Dada, You will have to take care of all the _mahatmas_ before you leave. You cannot just leave us wandering aimlessly.

**Dadashri** : You all have to decide that when all of you come and gather at one station, then you will say, 'Dada, go!'. If people are wandering around, tell everyone, 'Come on here! Come and gather here'. Say that.

Wherever one starts _purushartha_ with a pure heart, 'we' see that and 'our' grace will definitely fall upon Him. You have taken a step forward, and started the _purushartha_ with a pure heart, so You are bound to have 'our' grace. If Your _purushartha_ becomes weak, then 'we' would leave and go to another place. Why would 'we' sit around, if he becomes weak?

**Questioner** : Should You not lift him up, if he becomes weak?

**Dadashri** : 'We' would try that, but if he weakens again, 'we' would move away from there. 'We' have to look after others who are walking forward, do 'we' not? How can one become weak there? One's state should not weaken. It is a different matter if they come across some kind of a difficulty but one should remain strong.

When you are remaining in the Gnan, one day there will be a solution, will there not?

## Dada's final message to mahatmas

**Questioner** : You gave a very good example about where the cat will carry her kitten with her mouth and about the monkeys, where the baby chimps hold on to their mother.

**Dadashri** : They latch on to the mother and do not let go of her. Because even if the mother monkey jumps from fifteen feet, its baby will immediately close its eyes and hold on to her. The baby knows that, 'responsibility is not yours, it is mine'. Nothing will happen to it if the mother were to fall, that is how it will hold on to her. You have to learn that, can you hold on like that?

**Questioner** : That is how one has to hold on to Dada.

**Dadashri** : Will you hold on to Me like that?.

**Questioner** : We have held on to Dada.

**Dadashri** : Are you holding on? Are you are holding on to Dada too? You have to hold on to Me, I do not have to hold on to you. These kittens have to be carried by the mother grabbing them with the mouth. And what about the monkeys? The baby monkeys will not let go of their mother. If the mother jumps one way, the babies do not jump the other way. That is how they hold on to her. All of you, hold on to Me, like the baby monkeys.

# [8] ShukladhyanShukladhyan in the Akram path

What would you say if You were asked, 'Are You really Chandubhai or are You _Shuddhatma_?'

**Questioner** : I am really _Shuddhatma_ , but for the worldly interactions, I am Chandubhai.

**Dadashri** : Yes, You are really _Shuddhatma_ , are You not?

**Questioner** : Yes, definitely.

**Dadashri** : 'You' are a _Shuddhatma_ , then what remains in Your awareness ( _laksha_ )? What is in your _dhyan_ (meditation)? Do You have the _dhyan_ of 'I am _Shuddhatma_ ' or not?

**Questioner** : Yes, that is what remains in the _dhyan_ , properly.

**Dadashri** : That which remains in Your _dhyan_ ; that is _shukladhyan_. _Shukladhyan_ has now arisen for you. Whoever has the _dhyan_ of 'I am _Shuddhatma_ ', the Lord says that that is considered _shukladhyan_. Because the _dhyan_ of 'I am _Shuddhatma_ ', never slips away, You will not forget that _dhyan._ 'I am _Shuddhatma_ ', will prevail in Your awareness ( _laksha_ ) without fail.

**Questioner** : I cannot forget that even if I want to.

**Dadashri** : 'You' will not forget it. Even in the worldly life interactions, those who know, 'I am Chandubhai', will not forget it even if they want to, but can it be forgotten? For that, the ties have to be actually severed with the help of a Gnani Purush. Subtle ties. Those are the ties of _shraddha_ (faith) that have become established. Those ties must be broken. When the wrong faith ( _shraddha_ ), when the wrong belief is destroyed and the right belief sets in, then it will be of help.

Right belief is called _samyak_ _darshan_ , and the wrong belief is called _mithyatva_ (illusory belief). So, 'I am Chandubhai', 'I did all this', 'This is mine'; all that is _dehadhyas_. 'I know religion very well', 'I know all the scriptures', 'I know by heart all the knowledge of the scriptures' 'I can recite all the sacred knowledge that I have heard'; all that is _dehadhyas_. Even if one has memorized all the scriptures, the Lord calls it as _dehadhyas_. Because the practice of the belief, 'I am Chandubhai' has not been broke. It is all resolved when 'I am _Shuddhatma_ ' arises.

## Method of attaining shukladhyan

**Questioner:** How should one do the meditation of _Shuddhatma_ the pure Self?

**Dadashri:** Now there is no need for You to do any meditation _dhyan_. When is one to do _dhyan_? It is when he wants to attain a goal _dhyeya_. Once you decide the _dhyeya_ , the self becomes the _dhyata_ (meditator) and _dhyan_ (meditation) is what unites the _dhyeya_ (goal) and the _dhyata_ (meditator).

If you decide that you want to attain the Self, then Your real Self is _Shuddhatma_ (the Self, the goal, _dhyeya_ ). And if you are Chandubhai (the non-Self), then that makes you the _dhyata_ (meditator) and _Shuddhatma_ is the _dhyeya_ (goal) and finding the link that joins these two is called _dhyan_ (meditation). _Dhyeya_ goal and _dhyata_ meditator unite as a single link, that one-ness is called _dhyan_. Now with this _dhyan_ , the self (Chandulal, _dhyata_ ) becomes the Self- _Shuddhatma_ ( _dhyeya_ ). Now that is the way of the _kramic_ path (the traditional step-by-step path of liberation); this process of _dhyata_ , _dhyeya_ and _dhyan_. And in this Akram path (the step-less path to liberation), You yourself have became _dhyeya_ _swaroop,_ the Self, the goal! The awareness ( _laksha_ ) of 'I am _Shuddhatma_ ' has become established within You, so there is no need for You to perform any _dhyan_ meditation now!

In the era of the current time cycle, it is not at all possible to be established in _shukladhyan_ (the meditation as the Self), through the _kramic_ path. It is established when 'we' (the Gnani Purush and the fully enlightened Lord within Him) give this Gnan. _Shukladhyan_ and _Atmadhyan_ are considered as being one only. Now this is the complete _dhyan_ as the Self; that is called _shukladhyan_.

## How to remember the Self

**Questioner** : Dada, what is the Self (Atma) like? If I want to do its' _dhyan_ , if I want to keep it in awareness ( _khyal_ ) it, how should I do it?

**Dadashri** : Do 'You' know 'Chandubhai'?

**Questioner** : Yes.

**Dadashri** : Can You 'see' Chandubhai when you close your eyes?

**Questioner** : Yes. Even that comes in _khyal_ awareness.

**Dadashri** : As You begins to 'see' Chandubhai, You come closer to the Self. Then as the mind of Chandubhai is 'seen', as the speech of Chandubhai is 'seen', the Self comes even more closer. All these have to be 'seen'. Whatever thought comes in the mind, 'You' will know that this is coming, this is is coming. The One who 'sees', the thoughts that arise in the mind of Chandubhai, 'sees' words of the speech of Chandubhai , and 'sees' what Chandubhai is doing; is the Self. And _dhyan_ of the Self will remain automatically on its own; it does not have to be 'done'. Do You know how it remains? The awareness of 'I am _Shuddhatma_ ' that remains, is called _dhyan_ of _Shuddhatma_.From here, if you decide to go to Mumbai, then whether you go out walking or go to the market to buy vegetables, will Mumbai not remain in your _dhyan_?

**Questioner** : Yes it will.

**Dadashri** : That is considered _dhyan_. Sitting down with eyes closed is not considered _dhyan_. 'I am _Shuddhatma_ ', does that remain in your _dhyan_ for a while?

**Questioner** : Yes that remains constantly.

**Dadashri** : That which remains constantly all day, is the _dhyan_ of _Shuddhatma_ and before the _dhyan_ of 'I am Chandubhai' used to be there.

## Shukladhyan as the Self and dharmadhyan as the self

**Questioner** : When I remain constantly within the five Agnas, is it true that I remain in _shukladhyan_ (meditation as the Self)?

**Dadashri** : Anyone for whom the _dhyan_ of 'I am _Shuddhatma_ ' prevails; that is a _shukladhyan_ itself.

**Questioner** : For the _mahatma_ who has taken Gnan, the awareness of 'I am _Shuddhatma_ ' comes and goes, does it not?

**Dadashri** : It is not that it comes and goes; that _dhyan_ is always there for sure. So as the Self ( _nischaya_ ), You have attained _shukladhyan_ , and for worldly interaction ( _vyavahar_ ) You have _dharmadhyan_ (auspicious meditation, absence of _artadhyan or raudradhyan_ ). The _shukladhyan_ is there for sure, but to have remain in good proportion, You have been given the protection of the Agnas. If You apply this protection, then it will remain continuously. _Shukladhyan_ is there, but despite that if You do not remain within the Agnas, then it goes into negligence.

**Questioner** : What kind of _dhyan_ is it when during malaria fever, when the body is in a restless state, and _pratikraman_ is being done randomly for anyone?

**Dadashri** : That is considered _dharmadhyan_. But when this _pratikraman_ is being done, it is not just _dharmadhyan_ ; there is also _shukladhyan_ with it. There is a duo of _shukladhyan_ by _nischaya_ (the Self), and _dharmadhyan_ by _vyavahar_. When 'I am _Shuddhatma_ ' remains in one's awareness ( _laksha_ ), his _dhyan_ is of 'I am _Shuddhatma_ ', that is called _shukladhyan_ , and when you do the _pratikraman_ , that is called _dharmadhyan_.

The moment one has the awareness of 'I am _Shuddhatma_ ', it is considered _shukladhyan_. It does not go into _dharmadhyan_ or into _artadhyan_ (that which hurts the self). It does not even go into _raudradhyan_ (that which hurts the self and others). Now how much of it goes into _dharmadhyan_? If you do _pratikraman_ , all that goes into _dharmadhyan_. You have now become the Self. The internal work is done but because this is Akram, the external work remains.

## No artadhyan or raudradhyan after Gnan

**Questioner** : So _artadhyan_ occurs sometimes. When a person does not forgive himself and he suffers from within, is that called _artadhyan_?

**Dadashri** : _Artadhyan_ does not happen. After attaining 'our' Gnan, _artadhyan_ does not happen for sure, and the _artadhyan_ that one thinks he is experiencing, it is not _artadhyan_ , it is suffocation. In _artadhyan_ , there must be the decision of, 'I am Chandubhai'. Now the decision of, 'I am not Chandubhai' has come. After the decision of 'I am _Shuddhatma_ ' comes, there is only _atmadhyan_ ( _dhyan_ of the Self). There cannot be any _artadhyan_ - _raudradhyan_ , because as one becomes the Self, he is in _atmadhyan_. _Artadhyan_ occurs when one becomes Chandubhai.

Now he experiences suffocation and so he thinks that something is happening to him and that it is _artadhyan_ of the past. To get tangled into one's own pain is _artadhyan_ , and to create pain for others, to see faults of others, is _raudradhyan_. Only when these two stop, there is _moksha_. If you ask the religious teachers ( _acharyas_ ) 'what if raudradhyan and _artadhyan_ were to not happen?' they will tell you, 'Then _moksha_ will happen.' They understand it very well too. So we ask them, 'Will _dharmadhyan_ hinder us?', and they will say, 'No, _dharmadhyan_ and _shukladhyan_ do not hinder.'

Only when the ego ends, it is called _shukladhyan_. 'Your' ego is gone, and that is why it is called _shukladhyan_ , is it not?

## That is the final life

**Questioner** : What happens with _dharmadhyan_? Does it bind _punyai_ (merit karma)?

**Dadashri** : There are two kinds of _dharmadhyan_. Dharmadhyan done through the ego gives worldly pleasures. And on the path to _moksha_ , you will find other circumstances, you will come across _satsang_ ; all that is the fruit of _dharmadhyan_ , but it was done through the ego, and the _dharmadhyan_ that 'we' refer to is _nirhahamkari_ _dhyan_ (egoless _dhyan_ ). Egoless _dharmadhyan_ makes one _ekavtari_ (one life before attaining _moksha_ ). Only one more life will remain and then _moksha_ will happen. _Moksha_ will not happen directly from here, because _moksha_ does not happen as long as there is _dharmadhyan_. _Moksha_ happens when there is only _shukladhyan_. But here there is both _shukladhyan_ and _dharmadhyan_ , because the five Agnas 'We' have given to You, they themselves are _dharmadhyan_ and there is no _moksha_ as long as there is _dharmadhyan_. But one will go to _moksha_ after one more life.

## The Gnani Purush is verily my own Self

**Questioner** : What kind of _dhyan_ is it when I think of Dada and I say 'Dada, Dada!'?

**Dadashri** : When You say, 'Dada, Dada', it is Your own _atmadhyan_. It is the _dhyan_ of one's own Self. Krupadudev has said, 'The Gnani Purush is verily my Self', has he not? So when You do the _dhyan_ of a Gnani Purush, it is the same as doing _dhyan_ of your own Self.

## The four corners of spiritual development

The Lord has mentioned four _gatis_ (life forms in which a soul travels), four _dhyans_ (meditation), and four _upayogas_ (applied awareness). So the three main things are four _dhyans_ , four _gatis_ and four _upayoga_.

Four _dhyans_ : 1. _Raudradhyan,_ meditation that hurts the self 2. _Artadhyan,_ meditation that hurts the self and others. 3. _Dharmadhyan,_ absence of _arta and raudra dhyan_ 4. _Shukladhyan –_ meditation as the Self.

Four _gatis_ : 1. _Narkagati_ – life form in hell. 2. _Tiryanchgati_ \- animal and plant kingdom. 3. _Manushyagati_ – the human life form. 4. _Devagati_ – the celestial life form.

Four _upayogas_ : 1. _Ashuddha_ – impure awareness. 2. _Ashubha_ – inauspicious awareness. 3. _Shubha_ – auspicious awareness. 4. _Shuddha_ – pure awareness.

All these three are the same thing, except _shukladhyan_ ; that is on its own, independent. _Shuddha_ _upayoga_ and _shukladhyan_ are the causes for _moksha_. _Dharmadhyan_ is the cause for a life in the human life form or a life as a celestial being. _Raudradhyan_ is a cause for life in hell and _artadhyan_ is a cause for a life as an animal or plant form.

Now of these _dhyan_ which are there, which _dhyan_ is to be acquired? The answer is _shukladhyan_. The establishment of the awareness ( _laksha_ ) of 'I am _Shuddhatma_ ' is the acquisition. That is called _shukladhyan_. It is the _laksha_ (awareness) that is established. The _laksha_ of 'I am Chandubhai' is gone and that other _laksha_ is established. For the sake of worldly interaction You have to say, 'I am Chandubhai'. If you sell your partnership in a business, and the partner tells you that he would like to retain your name, would you not realise that although you have sold your business, he wants to use your name for the worldly interaction? And when the income tax officer comes, you have to say 'yes' it is mine, do you not? Can you say 'no'? Can you tell him that 'I have got rid of my name'? That is how You have to say, 'I am Chandubhai' in the worldly interactions. But the one whose _artadhyan_ and _raudradhyan_ are gone, and who has _shukladhyan_ , is going to attain _moksha_ within one or two life times.

If you happen to become absorbed in something but You are able to 'know' that 'this is an _atkan_ (heavy duty obstacle against spiritual progress)', then it is called _dharmadhyan_. To know that 'this is _atakan_ ' is called _dharmadhyan_. And _shukladhyan_ is there alongside anyway. _Artadhyan_ means worries start within. _Raudradhyan_ causes endless burning within. The One who does not have these two, is going to attain _moksha_ , sooner or later, within one or two life times. 'One' has to 'see' only these two, that there is no _artadhyan_ or _raudradhyan_ , what else?

## Moksha attained simply and easily through Akram Vignan

It is possible to attain _moksha_ within one or two life times. Now, _dhyan_ determines how many life times remain. If there is only constant _shukladhyan_ , then there will not be another life at all. But in Akram, both _shukladhyan_ and _dharmadhyan_ happen. _Shukladhyan_ occurs internally and _dharmadhyan_ happens externally. Why does _dharmadhyan_ happen? It happens because you have to follow the Agans as per Dada's instructions. It is not the work of _shukladhyan_ to follow the Agnas; it is the work of _dharmadhyan_. Therefore, charging of karma for one or two life times happens because of _dharmadhyan_. And today, all the scriptures say that no one can attain _shukladhyan_ in the current time era, and that is true, not false. However, this is Akram Vignan, the short-cut Vignan. So it will not happen in the _kramic_ path. If _shukladhyan_ happens, then that _shukladhyan_ is the cause for _moksha_. One beomes _ekavtari_ (has one more life before attaining _moksha_ ). He cannot go directly to _moksha_ from here. If He is a little weak in following the Agnas, or is not able to meet 'Us', then he may take two life times, three life times, five life times, but not more than fifteen life times. And if one merely happened to touch 'Us' just once, even he will come within a certain limit of lifetimes. All others do not have a limit but the one who has come within this limit and has attained the Gnan from 'Us' and is following 'our' Agnas, for him it is a different thing; he comes within the limits of fifteen life times.

## That is called shukladhyan

_Shukladhyan_ means to have the awareness of one's own true nature ( _nijswaroop_ ), the Self and to 'know'. 'See' the _Shuddhatma_ in others. Even if the other person is stealing, You continue to see his Self as pure only. Whatever he does, it is all under the control of _vyavasthit_ , it is not the action of the Self. So 'see' only pure. To see pure ( _shuddha_ ) and to have some experience of the pure; that is _shukladhyan_.

_Shukladhyan_ means to see the world as it really is. The One who wants to and settle with equanimity, will experience _shukladhyan_ very well. _Shukladhyan_ means that there is no other _dhyan_ except for the dwelling in the realm of the Self ( _swaroop_ _ramanta_ ); the Self is in the _dhyan_ of the Self, that is _shukladhyan_. To keep one's Self in one's meditation is _shukladhyan_ , and _shukladhyan_ is the direct cause for _moksha_.

## Indistinct to distinct experience of the Self

_Shukladhyan_ has four pillars. Of them, the first pillar is this - the indistinct experience of the Self ( _aspashta_ _vedan_ ). It is decided that there is the Self ( _vastu_ ). You have attained the awareness ( _bhan_ ) that there is the Self, but you do not have its distinct experience ( _spashta_ _vedan_ ). _Laksha_ (awareness) of 'I am _Shuddhatma_ ' has been established but it is an indistinct experience and it is the first pillar. The second pillar is the distinct experience of the Self called _spashta_ _vedan_.

**Questioner** : Does awareness ( _laksha_ ) remain in it constantly?

**Dadashri** : No, the awareness ( _laksha_ ) does not have to be 'kept'. When does the distinct experience ( _spashta vedan_ ) happen? Externally, everything has come into Your _darshan_ (vision, understanding), but it has not come into _rupak_ (experience, Gnan) , and when it comes into _rupak_ , then 'You' will have the distinct experience. Certain part of it has come into experience. 'You' have become free from your business and everyday living activities through understanding, but not through Gnan (Knowledge). So when You become free, from all that, through Gnan, then You will have the distinct experience of the Self and this _spashta vedan_ is the second pillar. The third pillar is _keval Gnan_ , absolute Knowledge; it shows everything indeed.

**Questioner** : _Lokaloka_ (of this and world and beyond it).

**Dadashri** : _Lokaloka_. At the moment, 'we' do understand _lokaloka_ but it does not come into _rupak_ experience. It is in 'our' _keval darshan_ (absolute Vision).

Right now, this first pillar has been attained. That is enough. What else do You need? A Jain would say, 'Goodness! The first pillar! He has become a God. The first pillar cannot be attained without one attaining the twelfth _gunthanu_ (spiritual level). One does not even touch the first pillar without coming into the tenth _gunthanu_. That first pillar is what You have attained! The eleventh _gunthanu_ is a level in which one can fall!

Greed ( _lobha_ ) remains until the tenth _gunthanu_ ; subtle greed. Until that greed is destroyed, one will not attain the twelfth _gunsthanak_. Then it does not matter how you destroy that greed, whether it is through the _kramic_ method or the Akram. But when you destroy the greed, you will touch the twelfth _gunthanu_. The ego will not leave as long as there is greed.

**Questioner** : There are all kinds of greed. There is also greed about attaining Gnan.

**Dadashri** : There are all kinds of greed, endless forms of greed. The tenth _gunthanu_ will not go away as long as that greed is there and until then the ego will not break. The ego is destroyed in the twelfth _gunthanu_. When the ego is destroyed, one is considered to be in the twelfth _gunthanu_ itself. Then, no matter in what way it has been destroyed, whether through the Akram path or in any other way, but he has entered into the twelfth _gunthanu_. And that is why it is considered the first pillar of _shukladhyan_.

Attainment of _keval Gnan_ is considered the thirteenth _gunthanu_. _Keval Gnan_ is the third pillar and thirteenth _gunthanu_ (spiritual level) of _shukladhyan_. All these three are always together. And 'Yours' is the twelfth _gunthanu_. So keep enjoying its taste. Slowly, all 'Your' energies will blossom. Now all the veils will be destroyed and everything will come to an end. The main veil has been destroyed. Now the energies will blossom.

**Questioner** : Nothing remains besides auspicious intent within ( _shubha_ _bhav_ ).

**Dadashri** : From the worldly interaction, that is the connection of _dharmadhyan_ _yoga_ and in the _nischaya_ , it is _shukladhyan_ state, right now. And the worldly interaction ( _vyavahar_ _gunthanu_ ) level will keep going higher. From the fifth, it goes into sixth, into seventh, into eighth. When in the worldly life one becomes free from sexuality, he crosses the ninth _gunthanu_. When in the worldly life interaction ( _vyavahar_ ) nothing related to money remains, one crosses the tenth. Now slowly Your _vyavahar_ will go higher. We needed the _nischaya_ _gunthanu_ (the Self) and 'we' have attained it. That is enough. This _vyavahar_ can go higher or lower, 'we' do not want and worldly rewards. We want to become _ekavtari_ and go to _moksha_. We should have absolute bliss within. 'You' experience that constantly, do You not?

This is the twelfth level ( _gunathanu_ ). 'You' are in the twelfth _gunsthanak_ , I am in the twelfth and Lord Mahavir was in the thirteenth when he attained _keval Gnan_ and the fourteenth _gunthanu_ is considered the state of _moksha_. By _nischaya_ as the Self, You and I are in the twelfth level, but what is the difference? 'Your' _shukladhyan_ is of the first pillar ( _aspashta_ _vedan_ ) and mine is of the second pillar ( _spashta_ _vedan_ ).

Of the first pillar means indistinct experience ( _aspashta vedan_ ). You continue to experience the Self. When _laksha_ (awareness) remains within, it is called _swasamvedan_ (the experience of the Self). 'You' will keep receiving its benefit too. You will receive the benefit of _nirakudata_ (a state free from all worldly effects, bliss of the Self) too. One can remain in _nirakudata_ , in times of terrible affliction ( _vyakudata_ ). 'We' had remained in _nirakudata_ during tremendous times of _vyakudta_ , this is considered tested. The _dhyan_ of 'I am _Shuddhatma_ ' constantly remains. That is the first pillar of _shukladhyan_ , it is _aspashta vedan_ (indistinct experience of the Self), and 'Ours' is the second pillar of _shukladhyan_ ; it is _spashta vedan_ (distinct experience of the Self). In the third pillar of _shukladhyan_ is _keval Gnan_ and one reaches _moksha_ in the fourth pillar of _shukladhyan_.

# [9] Moksha within one more life with this Gnan

## The fragrance of each individual mahatma

**Questioner** : Who is called a _mahatma_?

**Dadashri** : The one who has _antarik saiyam_ , inner absence of _kashaya_ , is called _mahatma_. He may or may not have _bahya saiyam_ external absence of _kashaya_. He cannot be called a _mahatma_ , as long as he does _kashaya_ , anger-pride-deceit-greed. 'Chandubhai' becomes angry, but the Self, the _mahatma_ keeps saying no to it from within. 'He' feels, 'why is this happening? It should not be so'. That is called inner _saiyam_. Such a One is called a _mahatma_.

**Questioner** : What is the difference between a _Shuddhatma_ and a _mahatma_?

**Dadashri** : _Shuddhatma_ is a God. _Mahatma_ \- if a person is higher than anyone, he can be called a _mahatma_. We refer to someone as a ' _mahatma_ ' in worldly interaction ( _vyavahar_ ), but he is actually a _Shuddhatma_. _Shuddhatma_ is a God, but he has become God by conviction ( _pratiti_ ). When the _pratiti_ , conviction, becomes complete, then the state of experience will become complete. Right now _pratiti,_ conviction, _laksha_ awareness, and _anubhav,_ experience, will keep increasing and decreasing, but when one is in the complete experience, when one feels oneness ( _abhedata_ ) with others, then only one can become _Shuddhatma_. _Shuddhatma_ is verily the absolute Self - _Paramatma_.

Having known the real Gnan, it will not go away, it is permanent. And the Self is eternal by nature, the Gnan is eternal, the bliss is eternal too, His talk is also eternal, and after attaining all this; what does he attain? He attains N.O.C. - no objection certificate; a clearance certificate; that man does not have objection anywhere. Even God will not object to him.

**Questioner** : What is the daily work of a _mahatma_?

**Dadashri** : It is to let all the stock of _karma_ , from the past life, discharge with equanimity.

**Questioner** : What is the duty of a _mahatma_ after attaining the title of a _mahatma_?

**Dadashri** : Maintain _vitaragata_ , the state absolutely free from attachment and aversion; they are not to do any _raag_ - _dwesh_.

**Questioner** : What should be the daily routine of a _mahatma_ of Akram Vignan be like?

**Dadashri** : Whatever stock of _karma_ has been filled, will continue to discharge, but there is no _raag_ - _dwesh_ , that is his daily routine. _Raag_ - _dwesh_ shoud not happen if someone slaps him or does him harm, that is how it should be. _Raag_ - _dwesh_ is interference ( _dakhal_ ). Let the stock discharge, and if there is no interference, it is enough. The rest of the stock will continue discharging.

**Questioner** : What should _mahatma_ 's ideal life be like?

**Dadashri** : People around him at home and outside his home would say, 'I must say! How wonderful!' Everyone will say the same thing. Everyone will show him the 'green flag' (show their approval). When I leave Baroda, I inform all the _mahatmas_. If one _mahatma_ shows me a red flag, I have to say, 'Stop, stop the car.' One out of two hundred _mahatmas_ would show a red flag and so we stop the car. 'What is the problem, tell me?' 'We' will give him a satisfactory solution and then I would leave, because I am under the control of that _mahatma_ , he is not under my control. I am dependent on him, he is not dependent on me. Therefore, our _mahatmas_ should remain subservient to others.

**Questioner** : What should their daily activity be, from the time they get up in the morning till the night?

**Dadashri** : There is no rule here. Wherever there is a rule, there is accountability. Here, there is 'no-law-law'. We have a _nischaya_ , decision, that, 'It should be this way, this should not happen'. But still, whatever comes out as discharge; that is correct. If one of them is smoking a cigarette, he may go outside and smoke it, but in his mind he should feel that 'I should not be doing this'.

**Questioner** : One should get up early in the morning, is there any such requirement?

**Dadashri** : No, not at all. There may be someone who gets up early, at three in the morning and lights a fire for the hot water, whereas there may be someone else who gets up late. At nine thirty, I would tell him, 'Son, the Sun has been out for quite a while. Think about this, that this great Sun woke up early and came out, and how much greater are you than the Sun?' So then he will quickly get up. All kinds of people come here, those who get up at three in the morning and also those who get up at nine-thirty in the morning.

**Questioner** : Please explain how the one who has taken Gnan, should fall asleep at night.

**Dadashri** : You should become a _Shuddhatma_ and then tell everything (the inner working mechanism) else, 'I am closing the office now. Come tomorrow, after six o'clock. The office is now closed.' Whatever thoughts come, tell them, 'To-day is the first day, so I request that you do not come now, otherwise you will be insulted. Please do not come again.' So then they will stop. And then, you can slowly fall asleep as You are doing _niddhidhyasan_ , visualization, on Dada's photo and saying, 'I am _Shuddhatma_. _I am Shuddhatma_ ,' loud enough so that only you can hear.

**Questioner** : When will _mahatmas_ attain _moksha_?

**Dadashri** : After one to three more life times. This is _ksahyak samkit_ , enlightened state of fully annihilated passions through absolutely established convction. Such a state has been given to some sixty thousand people, not just one or two.

The whole world has a wrong belief, and yet they believe that to be their own, do they not? They truly believe it to be their own. And You have attained the right belief, and that is verily correct. They believe the wrong to be correct, and they still act correctly. So then You should believe the right to be correct. Then should You not act according to that right belief? Ours is exactly right. So You should tell the other person that You have attained the state of _Shuddhatma_. And tell them 'do not ask me any other questions. If you have any questions, come to the Gnani Purush'.

But our _mahatmas_ speak with uncertainty and that is why people on the outside (non- _mahatmas_ ) do not understand them. What is the problem in us telling them about Akram Vignan?

**Questioner** : Do you ever ask whether there is any progress or not? Where can one see the progress? What is seen in the progress? How does one know that?

**Dadashri** : When there is no interference ( _dakho_ ). There is no _dakho-dakhal_ interference and its effect. Or there is no interference to your own self. When You 'see' that, there is progress. If the interference ( _dakho_ ) happens with anyone, then things get ruined.

One may go to the Himalaya or anywhere else, but this thing, the Self, can never be attained. In the presence of the Gnanis of the _kramic_ path, only three or four people will attain enlightenment, not more. This is the Akram Vignan. It rarely comes around in a million years. That is when hundreds of thousands will attain it. During that time, one will get the ticket to _moksha_. This is an exceptional case, that you have received the ticket.

Therefore, you have attained naturally, something that cannot otherwise be attained even in millions of life times; so protect it now. Do not pay attention to anything else. The worldly life will go on, it will never stop. Just as this beard will continue to grow, even if it does not want to, will it not? This worldly life will similarly continue, whether one wishes it to or not. And whatever is its nature, thing will happen in the confines of its nature only. And as far as the worldly life is concerned, you may wish that it ought to be like this or like that, but that is not how it is. So at least take care of this till the end.

**Questioner** : When I am remaining in the Self, how can I tell the milestones in knowing that the end is approaching for Me?

**Dadashri** : Your worldly pain will continue to decrease and You will begin to become more aware that You are free. Greater awareness will arise that You are enjoying the bliss of being free. I say that 'I have been free and tension free for the past twenty seven years. Whatever tension there was, it was happening to A.M. Patel (non-Self), not to 'Me' (the Self)'. But even if A. M. Patel experiences tension, the awakened Self has the burden of it too, does it not? When that is all over, then realize that despite being free, You are bound as long as You have the body. 'We' do not have a problem with that now, even if it takes two more life times (before attaining _moksha_ ). 'Our' goal is, 'May the whole world attain the bliss that I have attained today'. Tell me what are you in a hurry for? Are you in a hurry to get there?

## Gauge to measure liberated state while living worldly life

'We' have already attained _moksha_ , why should 'we' have to look for _moksha_? What more does the One who is ready, need to do?

**Questioner** : How does one know that he has already attained _moksha_?

**Dadashri** : When You do not have any desires in the world, there is nothing in this world that you have a desire for, or there is no _sankalp,_ my-ness, or _vikalp,_ I am Chandubhai, about it; then realize that You have attained _moksha_. So, when You know that You have become _nirichhak,_ desire-free, _nirvikapli,_ free from the belief, 'I am Chandubhai', then You verily are free ( _mukta_ ). There is beggary as long as there is any desire. The one with desire is called a beggar.

If a man is tied to a pole, from head to toe, his eyes are covered with cloth, and if someone comes from behind and cuts a part of the rope, quietly, loosening one turn of it, will the tied man know that there has been loosening of one turn? When just one turn has loosened, will the tied man know it?

**Questioner** : He will if it loosens.

**Dadashri** : What does he feel? He feels 'it has loosened up here. This turn has unwound'. When the loosening of a turn comes into experience, then know that the turns have now started loosening. 'We' help you attain the experience. You will feel like you are in _moksha_ even amidst external problems. With reference to _samadhi,_ unaffected state, alas even dogs have i _samadhi_! Give them two pieces of bread; they will have _samadhi_ all night. But maintaining _samadhi_ in the midst of _upadhi,_ external problems, is called 'Vignan'.

**Questioner** : So, then after attaining Dada's Gnan; when I experience that I am becoming free from within; what is that?

**Dadashri** : You are free. The belief you had of 'I am bound' is broken and the belief that 'I am free' continues to be established.

## Is there any hurry after sitting in the train of _moksha_?

**Questioner** : Sometimes, I have a sense of urgency to go to _moksha_.

**Dadashri** : You will trip over if you try to hurry. Why is there urgency to go to _moksha_ , when you already have _moksha_? What is the hurry? Is someone going to take Your reservation? No one can touch Your reservation. You already have the ticket and the _nischaya_ , the unwavering decision, for the 'town' ( _moksha_ ) you want to go to. Just ask someone, what the train is like? He will tell you that it is a fast one. Get on it and go to sleep!

If a man leaves Baroda by train to go to Bombay, and if he keeps sticking his head out of the window to see if he can see Bombay, when will that end? What will people ask? What are you looking at? And so he says, 'Is Bombay visible, can you check it out?' 'Hey you, why don't you go to sleep? Are you crazy or what?' Even his wife will say, 'He is a fool. Why did I have to marry him?' Would anyone do that? Some people run up and down the train. Why? He will say, 'I want to get there quickly, I have a relative who is very sick. I have to see him in the morning.' Hey Mooah (the dying one)! Why are you running back and forth unnecessarily? You are not sleeping and you are not letting others sleep. Go when you get off the train. Get off the train before everyone else does but for now, just go to sleep peacefully.

_Bija,_ second day of lunar fortnight, of this Gnan has already happened for You. Now, as You remain in the Agna, You will attain ' _poonam',_ full moon.

**Questioner** : Should one not have eagerness to attain ' _poonam'_ quickly?

**Dadashri** : It is not a question of hurrying. You should remain in the Agna; that is all. When You remain in them more, you will attain _poonam_ absolute Self, as a result. Otherwise, even ' _poonam_ ' will be displeased 'look he does not like it without me!' We like everything without you, you just come to meet us ahead. Why have eagerness for a state that is coming to You? _Moksha_ is coming to You and so is everything else. You should do whatever Dada says, that is all. Do not get into any other problem. Burden will increase if You try to hurry ahead. Who would want to take on such a burden?

**Questioner** : Dada why should one not maintain an intense desire for it?

**Dadashri** : No, the intensity has to be maintained only for remaining in these five Agna. Not for the thing that is an effect. You have to have it for the cause; effect is the fruit of it. People have missed out on the cause by having intensity for the fruit (effect). Which is important, cause or effect?

**Questioner** : The cause is important, Dada. But please say something about the intensity for the awareness ( _laksha_ ).

**Dadashri** : That will remain. That will not decrease. If you leave this satsang place on the second floor to go to your home, there is no need for you to remember that you are going to have to go down the stairs. You just have to watch the closest step and walk down and you will not fall. You are going to come to the ground floor for sure.

## What remains before _moksha_?

**Questioner** : _Moksha_ is not going to be attained in this life, so then how many more life times does one have to go through before attaining _moksha_?

**Dadashri** : It depends on how much One remains in the Agna. If one follows them seventy percent of the time, he will go to _moksha_ within one more life; therefore the maximum is four lives and minimum is one more life. But if one does not follow them at all, then it can even take one hundred and fifty life times.

**Questioner** : You say that not a single _karma_ is charged after attaining Gnan and that everything continues to discharge. So then should one not go to _moksha_ within one more life time?

**Dadashri** : When one follows 'our' Agna, that much of doership remains, and as a consequence he has one or two lives before attaining _moksha_. Depending on how much one remains in the Agna, it may increase or decrease one or more life time. At the most, it may take three to four life times, still if one does not pay much attention, if he does not remain in our touch, then at the most it will take fifteen life times, and for some it may take hundred to two hundred. But he will have some benefit. He has met Me, he has touched me here (at the toe), and so he is bound to benefit. His number of life times will be significantly reduced. But if he meets me more often and gets all the detailed explanations - I am not saying that one should spend all his time with me. Just come for five minutes and get the explanations. What is your difficulty? If there is any mistake, 'we' would give you another key and dissolve the mistake. You have already attained the fundamental thing through the one hour Gnan Vidhi, should You not get the detailed explanations? Do you not have to spend time to become a doctor? Up to twenty five years are spent in college education, so then do you not need some kind of qualification for this?

**Questioner** : So Dada, is it possible for a delay to happen in one attaining _moksha_? Instead of two, it becomes four life times?

**Dadashri** : But what is the problem if that happens?

**Questioner** : But I want to go early to _moksha_. What if get caught up somewhere in the middle?

**Dadashri** : One saint asked sage Narad, 'Naradji, did you ask God whether my _moksha_ will happen?' Naradji said, 'Yes, God said that your _moksha_ will happen. This tamarind tree that you are sitting under, as many leaves as it has, you will have that many lives and then you will get _moksha_.' 'I will get _moksha_ , that is more than enough.' He danced a lot in the joy of knowing that _moksha_ is going to happen. So _moksha_ will definitely happen. That is of importance. When it will happen, we will worry about that later.

**Questioner** : But if we go down the steps of this Gnan, then our number of lifetimes (before attaining _moksha_ ) will increase, will they not?

**Dadashri** : Just keep moving ahead by saying, 'Dada, Dada...' Do not have any fear about anything, whether this will happen, or that will happen.

**Questioner** : The awareness ( _laksha_ ) of _moksha_ will remain in every life time, will it not?

**Dadashri** : There are not going to be many now, are there? The awareness ( _laksha_ ) will stay with You. It will remain in the state of _moksha_.

## A greedy person and _moksha_

However, _moksha_ should happen in this very life. This is the Vignan of Akram; it is _ekavtari,_ one life before attaining _moksha_ , Vignan. Only one life will remain before attaining _moksha_. Some may have two lives and some may have three lives, before attaining _moksha_. The more greed one has, he has no choice but spend more lives. But he will spend ten to fifteen life times. It all depends on an individual's greed ( _lobha_ ) . If one is very greedy, as he is leaving, he will say, 'I will not be coming back anymore, so let's finish it all. I will spend some more days and then leave. What is the hurry?', but he has no choice but to go to _moksha_.

**Questioner** : Dada, are you talking about worldly greed?

**Dadashri** : Then what other greed is there? Greed is always worldly, is it not? There is no greed in that other, is there? Greed is a disease, how long will that disease last? As long as it exists within.

**Questioner** : If there is one life time, how many years are there?

**Dadashri** : It is a hundred years, if it is a human life, or it can even be eighty-two years. It is fine, whatever it may be. These _devas_ , the celestial beings, their life span is hundred to two hundred thousand years.

## Who will stray away from the path of _moksha_?

**Questioner:** All the _mahatmas_ say that we will be going to Mahavideha Kshetra. Will they?

**Dadashri:** Some may have to come here and then go there, after spending one more life. One will have to settle all the account of _karma_ that lie pending within, will he not? But then he will go there. Will one not have to settle the accounts? Prior to attaining this Gnan, if you have bound a bad _karma_ for which a punishment result is pending, you have no choice but face that penalty, do you not? Having suffered it, he becomes free. Entire lifetime represents a penalty, does it not?

**Questioner:** So does anyone stray away after taking Gnan? After attaining this Gnan is it possible that one stray away forever?

**Dadashri:** Yes, it is possible! If the Gnan does not bring results, then there is no meaning at all. Then he has gone on the wrong path, wrong path only. And what if he speaks wrong continuously about everyone?

**Questioner:** Wrong in what way?

**Dadashri:** If the talk turns about you, and he starts cursing profusely, is an example. Are there such people in this world?

**Questioner:** So does he do _viradhana,_ (to emphasize the negative with scorn) of the Gnan?

**Dadashri:** He will do _viradhana_ of Gnan, the Gnani, the followers of the Gnani and everybody else too. He will do _viradhana_ of books and everything else. 'I will throw this book away, if it ever comes in my hand,' he will say. Then he will do _viradhana_ of books. He will throw the book this way. 'Move aside. If you will bring these books, I will throw them away in the ocean, or I will burn them.' He will be disrespectful of photographs and images and burn them.

**Questioner:** Is this talk about someone who has taken Gnan?

**Dadashri:** Yes, everything can change.

**Questioner:** One must not do _viradhana_ of even a _mahatma_ of the Gnani Purush?

**Dadashri:** _Mahatmas_ of the Gnani Purush are called Gnanis only, are they not? These _mahatmas_ means, what are you talking? These _mahatmas_ have laid down their weapons. They do not have the _bhaav,_ inner intent of hurting anyone. They do not have a desire to deceive or rob anybody. They do not have desire to take anything that is not duly theirs from anybody. These _mahatmas_ have laid down all these weapons of anger-pride-deceit-greed.

For all the losses sustained in infinite past lives what does one have to do in order to pay them off in one life? One has to pursue Dada. If Dada is not there, then one should pursue the words spoken by Dada. Persevering in the pursuit of these, one has to pay off the loss of infinite lives within one life. Loss of how many lives? We have taken infinite births until now; all those losses are there, are they not? We have to pay off that loss, don't we?

Now You have to dedicate and devote exclusively and unflinchingly to this One only, not anything else. If not, you have to make a _niyanu,_ absolute decision to attain something is so strong that all his _punyai_ – merit _karma_ , are expended towards attaining only that, of _moksha_ so you will not have to go through many more lives. You will then even end up having less than two to three more life times.

It will be in your awareness ( _laksha_ ) that you have to go to Mumbai on a certain date. Similarly, it should be in your awareness that you want to attain _moksha_. What is the use if you are not aware of where you want to go? You will be aware that you have to go to Mumbai, will you not? Will you forget?

**Questioner:** I will not forget.

**Dadashri:** Similarly, this; that you want to go to _moksha_ should remain in Your awareness ( _laksha_ ). You have now started in that direction. It may come early or late, but You are on Your way, the more 'effort' You put into it, that much is to Your benefit. If you meet Me directly ( _pratyaksha_ ) then You will fly like an aeroplane and if not, if you have _sookshma_ subtle Dada, and you will move like a train. So as much You can fly, that much is correct. Still a lot will be settled. Only one life should remain pending and that too, to go through the effects of _punyai,_ merit _karma_. By following Dada's five Agna, You will accumulate tremendous _punyai_.

## Awareness at the time of death

You have become _nishank,_ absolutely free from any doubt about the Self , now remain within the five Agna. Go through old age. If this body has to leave, let it, let them cut off your ear if they want to, You have to be rid of the _pudgal,_ non-Self complex, eventually. It does not belong to You. That which is not Yours, will not remain with You. When it is time for it to leave, if it is the time for _vyavasthit_ , it will leave. Do not have fear. No one is going to take it away, just because you say so. This will keep You fearless ( _nirbhaya_ ). Say, 'Go ahead and become what you ( _pudgal_ ) want to.'

This body, in the name of Chandubhai, has become your great friend, through which you have come to know the Akram Gnani Purush, and attained the Akram Gnan, and that experience has been accomplished. Therefore, now tell this body, 'Dear friend, I will arrange for whatever medicine necessary for you. Even if you have to take the most _himsak_ of medicine, (e.g. anti-biotics, chemo therapy, etc.); use it, and stay, live.' Such should be your inner intent. Did all those other bodies (in the past lives) not leave, did they not all turn out to be useless? For endless lives, the bodies that You had, did not serve a useful purpose. But this body ( _deha, sharira_ ) showed You the true fruit-the Self, did it not? And it showed you that through the of Chandubhai. So take care of this body and get Your work done.

**Questioner** : I have taken the Gnan, so what should I do at the time of death?

**Dadashri** : Remain the knower-seer ( _gnata-drashta_ ). Keep 'seeing' what is going on within. If You cannot remain thus, then remain in Dada's five Agna. Keep seeing the real and the relative.

## Dada will take care of everything in the final hour

**Questioner** : Is it possible for a _mahatma_ to know when he is going to die? If he is remaining in all your Agna and remains in the knower-seer state, then will he know that his time to leave this world has come?

**Dadashri** : Yes he will. It does not matter, if he does not. But Dada will take care of him, right till the end. So do not worry. When One does all that, Dada will take care of him.

**Questioner** : Does one experience anything at that time?

**Dadashri** : Yes He does. He will be in the Self at that time. He is in the Self during the last hour; He will not come out of it, because he will experience a fearful environment outside of the Self

**Questioner** : The body that has given Me help, and it is still helping Me, in worshipping Dada, my inner desire is that Dada be present when it is time for this body to leave. Dear Lord, grant me that.

**Dadashri** : When a ship is about to sink, will one let go of the attachment to that ship or not? When it is sinking, they will tell you, 'Abandon the ship, leave all your possessions behind and get into the life boats'. One will let go of the attachment, will he not? Will he remain on the ship? Then if they say, 'You are allowed to take only two family members with you'. At that time will he let his son go or will the old man himself go? He will not let his son go. Will one let others go? He will push everyone aside and leave even when they try to stop him, will he not? He will push everyone away and leave. Keep me alive in return for the promise to leave all the attachments. So this is what happens at the time of death. Those who have attained Our Gnan, they go into the Self and then if you ask them, 'Please come out of there', they will say, 'No, now I do not want anything more.' That is called a _samadhi-maran,_ death without any effects whatsoever; death in the awareness as the Self. There is suffering going on externally in the physical self, and there is _samadhi_ within. In the last hour, He remains so much in the Agna. So no one has to worry at all.

**Questioner** : Will Dada be present at the time of death?

**Dadashri** : Yes. Present, yes He will be truly present. When He is present on any other ordinary day, then will He not be present at the time of death? Is He not present on other days? He is present the whole day! That is it then! Look is he not saying that Dada remains present the whole day?

## Death will be a blissful one

One will withdraw completely into the den of the Self at the time of death; he will not stay outside at all, will he? That is the Self's main attribute. When surrounded by difficulties, the Self will it draw back into its den. That is its greatest attribute. And all those who do not have Gnan, they do not have a den, so then where can they go?

You- the Self, should remain separate from Chandubhai. Chandubhai is separate and You are separate. Our Vignan is such that it will keep You still-steady. In the face of many difficulties, One goes back into the Self.

**Questioner** : But Dada, everyone has his own limit of fear, does he not? Some withdraw into the Self in the presence of little fear and some in the presence of great fear.

**Dadashri** : Yes, each has his own limit, but ultimately the attribute is to get back into the den (Self). Some ask me if they will have a _samadhi_ - _maran_. I tell them, if they are experiencing _samadhi_ currently when there is no fear, then when there is greater fear at that time of death, they will definitely enter the Self. So everyone will enter their own homes, for sure. They will not come out, will they? So there will be _samadhi_ - _maran_.

And those who do not have Gnan; where will the go? If one has a young unmarried daughter, he will 'go', become preoccupied, with that, or he will go into the market. So if the interest is in his daughter, he talks as if he is going to get her married before he dies. Because, when he has any kind of fear, he does not have the place-tool to escape anywhere, does he? Whereas, You have the place-tool of getting into the Self. He does not have such a tool, so where can he go? So, he will find such connections related to some worldly relationships.

**Questioner** : So Dada, has a causal body ( _karan deha_ ) been bound?

**Dadashri** : It has already been bound. But here at the time of death, one creates more causes. We have the Self within, and so We go into it. Bliss exists there; there is no pain ( _dukha_ ) when You go there.

## During the time of pain of death

**Questioner** : At the time of death, if one experiences pain tantamount to the sting of one thousand scorpions, will the Gnan remain at that time?

**Dadashri** : This Gnan will definitely be present. It will give You constant bliss of the Self at the time of death. The Gnan that gives you _samadhi_ right now, it will also be present at the time of death, for sure. Hence, the balance sheet of the entire life will present itself at that time.

**Questioner** : When the nerves are being pulled in pain, and the heart beats are missing beats...

**Dadashri** : There is no problem with that. If the nerves and nervous system is failing and even if he becomes unconscious, , even then _shukladhyan_ ( I am pure Soul) is there within. _Shukladhyan_ will not let leave once it has been attained. It does not let you worry, even now, does it?

**Questioner** : No.

**Dadashri** : Therefore, the _dhyan_ (natural meditation) _,_ that does not allow any worry to arise; something that has not happened before in this world, has happened to You now. So then, will it abandon You at the time of death? If the awareness of 'I am _Shuddhatma_ ' remains, then that is called _samadhi_ - _maran,_ blissful death; death in the presence of the awareness of 'I am _Shuddhatma_ '. Then You do not have to see how much pain the body is in. That means that You are aware there. When _moha,_ illusory attachment, decreases, then _mamata,_ 'my-ness' is bound to decrease. Then You will be able to know _mamata_ , that, 'This that is not mine and this my-ness is going on for what is indeed not mine.' Then _mamata_ will go away. So blissful death, _samadhi_ _maran_ is going to happen for sure.

## One will remain separate in his next life

**Questioner** : What exactly goes with us when we die? Is it whatever has been painted (causes)?

**Dadasdhri** : Nothing is going to go with You, since You have become _Shuddhatma_. Only one or two bags of the stock of _karma_ of this one life will go with You. Just as these monks, do they not keep just have one or two bags? No house or anything else, only two bags will remain in the end, for one more life.

**Questioner** : Right now, there are warehouses full of it.

**Dadashri** : Let it feel like a heap full, but that heap is of the foreign department, of Chandubhai, is it not? Why are You taking it as Your own? Nothing of that is of Your own home, is it? Let go of that burden and take a nap peacefully. You should check to see if everyone else is asleep, and then you should go to sleep too.

**Questioner** : Dada, the separation of the Self and the non-Self, you have made for us, they will not become one again, will they?

**Dadashri** : They will remain separate.

**Questioner** : Even when we go to another life?

**Dadashri** : Yes. If one goes into the next life in a state of bondage, then he will remain bound and if he goes there with the awareness of separation, then he will remain separate there too.

## Will this Gnan remain in the next life?

**Questioner** : Will this Gnan, that we have attained, remain in our next life?

**Dadashri** : It will. None of the gnan will go away. Neither this Gnan, nor any other kind that he has brought with him, will leave. Gnan will remain no matter where You go.

**Questioner** : Still one or two life times still remain, will the knowledge of the Self (Gnan) remain?

**Dadashri** : You have forgotten the other gnan (relative), have you not? That is not going to come with You. The gnan you are in now, it will come with You. The 'standard' that you are in here, that standard will continue there. So all of this, will remain. There is no difference between what is here today and what it will be tomorrow. Only the body changes, that is all, the rest of the state remains the same. And if a person is a thief and a rogue here, it is the same for him over there too. Therefore, no one will take anything away from you there. This Gnan will remain with You. That is why You can go to _moksha_ , is it not? Otherwise, how will You go to _moksha_? You cannot remember the past, which is the greatest thing. And the future is under the control of _vyavasthit_. So You have to remain in the present.

**Questioner** : Dada, the right belief ( _samkit_ ) that You give us, the Gnan You give us, will that remain with us forever, all the way to _moksha_?

**Dadashri** : You have already attained _moksha_ , what other _moksha_ is left for You to attain? First comes the freedom from the ignorance of the Self ( _agnan_ ), then the other freedom comes when all _karma_ dissipate.

**Questioner** : But, does one have to attain Gnan again in his next life?

**Dadashri** : No, this Gnan will always be with You. The Gnan that You have attained, it is the very same Gnan that will remain with You.

_Artadhyan,_ adverse internal meditation that hurts the self and _raudradhyan,_ adverse internal meditation that hurts the self and others; that has ceased, that very result will make You sit in front of a Tirthankara Lord. After the change of _swabhav_ , having become the Self, whom will 'it' let you stay here with? Where will 'it' find parents for You? If one is born as a Tirthankara then he will be born in the royal family, King's palace. But will his friends be people from surrounding neighborhood like the Patels and the Baniyas? No. Celestial beings would have landed over there before His birth. Celestial beings in human form will come and play with Him. Otherwise wrong _sanskara,_ influence of culture, would develop. So everything is attained according to circumstances. All the circumstances are ready, if You are ready. If you are crooked then everything will be crooked. If You became straightforward, then _Dusham Kaal-Kaliyug—_ this current time cycle characterized by lack of unity in thoughts, speech and action, does not obstruct You. You have met the Gnani Purush and received this wonderful Gnan. Let there be seven such _Dusham Kaal_ , what problem is it of Yours? You would be in Your Gnan, state of the Self You do not have _artadhyan_ - _raudradhyan_. The intent to hurt anyone will never arise any more within you.

So the result of _dharmadhyan,_ absence of adverse internal meditation, is that one more life will come. Having received this Gnan some may get two lives, some may get one life, and for some it may take longer, however there is _moksha_ for sure. This is because _karma_ have ceased binding, new cause for _karma_ is not being created.

**Questioner:** If one were to attain _moksha_ after some life times, then will the same state continue in the intervening few lives too?

**Dadashri:** If one had reached to the point of 'ninety-nine' then it will start from 'ninety-nine'. This person has reached up to 'eighty-one', so then it will start from 'eighty-one'.

**Questioner:** So _karma_ will not be bound even in the next life; that same state will continue only.

**Dadashri:** All those states will continue only. The Gnan which You have, at the time of death, it will remain present and then it will be present in the next life too.

**Questioner:** Now in the next life, will one remember this Gnan at that time?

**Dadashri** : All the _nimits,_ evidentiary instruments, will come together. It cannot happen without a _nimit_. One may meet a _nimit_ but not that of Gnan. One may meet a wrong _nimit_. If one meets a wrong _nimit_ , then Gnan will become present. If you meet someone who would do wrong to you, or harass you, then you would start thinking; during the thought process the light of Gnan will prevail. Or if you went to listen to some religious saint, you would think that 'that is not how it is; it is like this'. The Gnan will be present and light will happen. So Gnan will present when you meet a _nimit_.

**Questioner:** Those remaining one or two more lives, during that time this _jagruti,_ awakened awareness of the Self and this guidance of this path...

**Dadashri:** That all will remain with You. The way this _jagruti_ , this Gnan, and everything one leaves with, the same will be present there. People will be amazed at you in your very young age. That is the reason Krupadudev Shrimad Rajchandra, the Gnani Purush of the _kramic_ path, was able to write what he did in his very young age. If the Gnan were not present then he could not write all that, at that young an age.

**Questioner:** In this life we have received Akram Vignan, the step-less path to Self-realization, but will we have to go in the _kramic_ path, the one step at a time progression path, in the coming lives or will it remain Akram only?

**Dadashri:** Afterwards nothing is left, is there? Once You attain the Self, it is done, finish! Thereafter whatever comes, everything is _nikali,_ discharge. Whether, you get Akram or _kramic_ ; that is of no concern to You, the Self. This Gnan of Ours will remain present and ready all the way to _moksha_ in one to two more life times.

**Questioner:** Dada, we got Your Gnan and Your Agna too in this life, so now will someone give us Agna in the next life or will we take it with us only; what will happen?

**Dadashri:** These Agna are for only this life. Thereafter the Agna will have been woven in Your life; You will not have to follow them. You will have to follow them just in this life. If you follow them properly then in the next life they will have become woven for You, natural to You. That life will be in the state of Agna.

**Questioner:** So will the files of this life come with me in the next life?

**Dadashri:** If you create further clash with the files, then they will come with you and if you do not, then they will not come.

## We will go to Mahavideha Kshetra

The One whose awareness ( _laksha_ ) of the Self has been established, will not be able to stay here in Bharat Khestra. The rule is that such a One will be naturally pulled to Mahavideha Kshetra. He cannot remain in the environment of this _dushamkaal_ , the current time cycle of Kaliyug. Those who do not have the awareness of _Shuddhatma_ are here anyway. But the One in whom the awareness is established; He will have one or two more life times in Mahavideha Kshetra; there he will have _darshan_ of the Tirthankar Lord and then go on to _moksha_. That is how easy this path is!

**Questioner** : I want to take birth in Mahavideha Khestra, is that possible?

**Dadashri** : Yes, why not? Only those that are in the fourth standard are made to sit in the fifth one, no? Those that pass (qualify)! In the same token, the nature of the location will take one from here to there for one lifetime there. So if one's real nature ( _swabhav_ ) becomes compatible with the attributes of the fourth time cycle, then wherever the fourth time cycle is prevailing, that location will pull that person there. And if one is living in the fourth time cycle but his _swabhav_ is compatible with that of the fifth time cycle, then that person will be pulled to the location where the fifth time cycle prevails. Therefore You have to sit next to Simandhar Swami and there You will attain the final liberation. That is the final _darshan._ That _darshan_ is higher than our (the Gnani's) _darshan_. 'We' are at 356º and the Lord is at 360º, so you will have that _darshan_ there, in Mahavideha Kshetra. Now, there remains a necessity for only that _darshan_ and then You will have it all. When You have that _darshan_ , You will attain _moksha_ , final liberation.

## Prosperity and joy through the five Agnas

The _punyai_ , merit _karma_ , that will be bound will be such that you will not have to do any hard work over there. There oh my goodness!...you will have ready bungalows and cars – that is where you will be born and they will take you to be in the company of the Lord. That is the kind of merit _karma_ that will be bound. By remaining in our Agna, you bind _punyai-anubandhi-punyai_ , a category of merit _karma_ in which the effect as well as the new binding is that of the highest class of merit _karma_. You will not have to work hard at all. Here there is nothing but pushing and shoving, can you call this a life at all? Can you even call this _punyai_? There, you just have to think about it and it will be time to go see the Lord. Even before you look to see what time it is, a car will be waiting for you to take you there. So everything will be ready for you. So therefore now You should follow our Agna, constant _samadhi_ , uninterrupted bliss of the Self will be there; this I guarantee You. You will not have to come back from Mahavideha Kshetra. There will not be a road for you to return! If you do _raag-dwesh_ , attachment-abhorrence, then you will have to come back.

The force of your _karma_ will lead to a next life. There may be one or two more lives but ultimately You will have to go to Simandhar Swami for sure. Whatever accounts you have bound here, whatever sticky _karma_ you had bound for an account here (in Bharat Kshetra), will come to an end.

**Questioner** : Here?

**Dadashri** : There is no choice! Here the justice is absolute and fantastic, it's precision is as accurate as the scale of a goldsmith. Pure and clean justice. Nothing haphazard will work here.

## The Self knows where he is going

**Questioner:** How can I know that I am going to _moksha_?

**Dadashri** : No, what is the hurry for it anyway?

**Questioner** : No, there is no hurry but at least one can tell whether it will be after ten, twenty, hundred lives...

**Dadashri** : You can know everything. The Soul, the Self, is like a thermometer. Can you not tell when you feel hungry? When you have to go to the toilet, are you not able to tell? Everything can be known. Where you are headed for, everything can be known. Which life form one is headed for can also be known. You are not looking from an impartial view point.

**Questioner** : I have to come to that stage, no?

**Dadashri** : No, but the Self is with a stage only. You have to see from a neutral, impartial perspective. You should not become partial along side with it. You can immediately tell when you have to go to the toilet, but what does it mean to become partial along side with it? If a goldsmith comes to your home to sell jewelry, what can be done if you get involved in talking with him? You became partial towards the gold jewelry and so the thermometer that was showing you to go to the toilet, stops working. Otherwise if there is no partiality, the Self is the thermometer, for sure; it will show you everything.

## In moksha every being is equal

**Questioner** : You have given us the guarantee for _moksha_ , but when I go to _moksha_ , You too will be there in _moksha_ , right? How will I recognize You, Dada?

**Dadashri** : What is the need for recognizing me then? Here you are obligated to those whom are acquainted with. Over there, there is no such thing as acquaintance. So that is the right way, because there is equality ( _samanta_ ) in _moksha_. What is the meaning of _moksha_? _Moksha_ means there is no superior overhead and there is no subordinate beneath.

Why is it that there is no _moksha_ here? The answer is if there was such a superior as a Tirthankara here, then I would attain _moksha_ just by doing His _darshan_. There is that much of readiness here for us. Only the _darshan_ remains. When we meet the Lord and attain His _darshan_ , completion ( _poornahuti_ ) within, absolute enlightenment, will arise. But such a Tirthankara is not available here, so whose _darshan_ can 'we' make You do? An idol of a Tirthankara will not work for this purpose. So when You go there, Your _moksha_ can only come with His _darshan_.

## 'We' will be the last one to go

**Questioner:** You had said that you are not in a hurry for _moksha_ , why is that?

**Dadashri** : What hurry do I have? I feel I have already attained _moksha_. What then? Who would be in a hurry for _moksha_? Those who want to free themselves quickly from pain suffering; they will be in a hurry. For Me _moksha_ has happened, for sure. Now it is my desire that people attain salvation. After that, 'we' will go with ease.

**Questioner** : After you send us?

**Dadashri** : Yes, it will be good when everyone goes, that is my desire.

**Questioner** : Mahavideha Kshetra and _moksha_ ; now You just said that first You will send us and then You will go to _moksha_.

**Dadashri** : Yes, I will come later.

**Questioner** : Is that your _laghuttam_ _bhaav_ , ' I am lower than the lowest,' way of worldly interaction?

**Dadashri** : No, it is not laghuttam bhaav. 'We' still have more work to do.

**Questioner** : How long will You do that work for?

**Dadashri** : No, that is not the problem. The method by which I have to go - that 'station' is such that it will take time to come.

**Questioner** : So You will send us earlier?

**Dadashri** : From these (current _mahatmas_ ) there are some that will come with Me. You don't have to go around seeking anything like that; just keep 'seeing' whatever happens!

## Can one fall from Mahavideha?

**Questioner:** Dada, once the subatomic particles becomes light enough so that we reach Mahavidhe Kshatra, but then there one will not fall back, will he?

**Dadashri:** The one who wants to fall will fall anywhere. If one has no desire to fall, there is no one who can make him fall. These others who make others fall, will not be able to touch You. When one has a desire, then everyone will make him fall. When one has a desire, he will even fall in the well in the night. What is that called?

**Questioner** : But there is no need for anyone to have doubts about that.

**Dadashri** : There is no need to have doubts. I have to say this, so that one does not become careless to the extent that 'nothing is going to impede me'. One will have to remain cautious, no? Certain _karma_ from the past maybe such that they will make one fall but even then, this Gnan is the very thing that will bring him up. This Gnan is such that it will keep afloat even those who are drowning. It will bring up to the surface, that which is doomed to drown. And after attaining the experience, You will be able to understand that, no?

## You have the visa; the ticket is yet to come

**Questioner:** Dada when I go to Mahavideha Kshetra, will I see the Tirthankara Lord with my eyes?

**Dadashri** : Yes, you will see Him for sure. You should sit right in front of Him. See with your eyes and sit in front of Him. Just for His _darshan_ , just for this very intent, You have to go there. I do not have that _darshan_ with 'Me.' With Me, (with the _darshan_ of the Gnani), that _darshan_ is still not complete. So that much of benefit is lacking; You cannot get the full benefit. That _darshan_ , the _darshan_ of the Tirthankara, is the complete _darshan_.

Have You applied for the ticket? Did You apply for the visa for Mahavideha Kshetra? To remain sincere to Our Gnan, that is called 'visa'.

**Questioner** : And what does getting a ticket mean?

**Dadashri** : When the ticket comes, that is a different matter altogether. Your state will become just like Mine. Because then there will not be anyone to interfere. At times when your face falls (when you get visibly upset); the joy that disappears from your face, is because the other person is cutting the string of 'your' kite. Despite that the string of your kite is in Your hands. There is no one to cut the strings of My kite, at all. So when Your state becomes like that, then it is done; it means Your ticket has arrived. Here the visas have already been issued; You got the visa!

# [10] The Unique Beauty of Akram VignanScience means cash bank

All this is a science ( _vignan_ ). What is considered as _vignan_? It is that which is in the form of a _siddhant_ , an irrefutable principle that attains the ultimate. _Siddhantik_ means it is not contradictory. It should give instant results; 'on credit' is not acceptable. If you do it this way, you will be rewarded the next day. You are sitting here with me right now; that too will give instant reward. You will receive instant reward for whatever you do here, nothing is on credit and that is called _vignan_ (science). Now if you run even a single errand for here, you will be rewarded instantly without fail. This is a _vignan_ ; you will find a connection from wherever you start.

## Darkness of infinite times illuminated by Akram Vignan

**Questioner** : After attaining the Gnan, one is going to remain a _punyashadi_ (one with merit karmas), is he not?

**Dadashri** : One has never had the intention that he wants to attain _Atmagnan_ Self-realization is not easily available in most eras of the time cycle. This is the first time he has attained the Gnan. Akram Vignan itself is like that. It is because this is a _vignan_ that One attains Gnan. And that other in the _kramik_ path, it is all relative knowledge (gnan). And this Akram Vignan is _kriyakari_ , self-active, working on its own. Even when You are just sitting around, it is continually working within. Is it not?

**Questioner** : Yes it is.

**Dadashri** : Does it caution you or not?

**Questioner** : It does.

**Dadashri** : This is _kriyakari_ Gnan. This is Akram Vignan and this _nimit_ (instrument) is of a completely different kind. Look at all the changes it has made; have all these changes not happened?

**Questioner** : With Dada's blessing, even those in their final hour find courage and strength. So it does make a tremendous difference, why is that?

**Dadashri** : Yes, everything changes. This science is such. Such is the power and energy of this science. Everyone was walking and tripping over in the darkness and when someone threw a flash of light with a flash light; they all stopped tripping. That is how this science is. And when someone holds up a lantern, only two or three people will stop from tripping but the rest will trip.

## Complete surrender to the One separated Me eternally

**Questioner** : These Agnas that You have given me; this awareness ( _jagruti_ ) You have enabled for Me, they comprise all the inner intents of the entire universe. Beyond this, there is nothing more that can be said.

**Dadashri** : They represent all the scriptures, all the _Agamas_ (Jain scriptures); it is the combined science of all the twenty-four Tirthankaras.

**Questioner** : Dada, I have said what was in my heart!

**Dadashri** : You should not experience any hesitation to surrender your all to the One through whom You attained this eternal separation of the Self. 'Surrender Your all', they say, 'to the One through whom you attained the separation'. They tell You to surrender Your all to the One who gave You the separation. What you were and what You have become! abide

The five Agnas that 'we' have given You, however much You follow them, You benefit by that much. The less You follow, then lesser Your benefit. But the anger-pride-deceit-greed go away. These weaknesses go away. The Gnan You have attained is such that you will not be able to get it even if you were to pay five billion rupees. What you cannot attain in five hundred thousand life times, You have attained in just one hour. There is no time to be wasted on this. This is not something that needs interpretation. This is the cash bank of divine solution. In the cash bank, you do not have to ask at what time your check will be cashed and at what time the payment will be made. Do you understand this? When 'we' refer to it as the 'cash bank'; would you understand that or not? What do you think?

## From the second day moon to the full moon

Here, before taking this Gnan, that other gnan was working, but it was taking you to the lower life form ( _adhogati_ ). And this Gnan is constantly working and it takes You to moksha. The Lord has called this _samkit_ (right Vision).

After attaining the Gnan, it grows. The next day it shines like the moon on the second day of lunar fortnight; then You have to water it. It will not grow if You do not come to _satsang_. Even if You are living out of town, have some water sprinkled on it so then the tree will grow. Then You will have peace forever.

There had been moonless nights from time immorial, instead of that, now the second day of lunar fortnight has arisen. The second day moon is visible. Now, gradually it will be the third day and then the fourth day. This will increase as You live in Our Agnas like 'We' tell You to. And as it becomes the full moon, everything becomes complete and absolute. This 'main' thing ( _vastu,_ the Self) has been attained and bliss has arisen within. Now slowly as the second day of the moon progresses to the full moon. Is there not a difference between the two? Those phases of the moon will continue to arise. Similarly there are phases of the Gnan. When the full moon rises, 'Knowing' comes to an end.

## What is to attain in Akram

**Questioner** : How should I do in the process of ( _sadhana_ ) going from gross to subtle and to subtler level?

**Dadashri** : There is nothing to do ( _sadhana_ ). 'You' Yourself are the subtlest form of the original Self, You are the Self, so what else do You have to accomplish? And now You are not going to go into the gross level. The gross and the subtle are left in the _pudgal_ (non-Self complex). So it has become a file. 'You' have become the subtlest ( _sookshmattam_ ) and so 'You' do not have to do anything. It is in the _kramic_ path that you have to do the _sadhana_ (intense activities of mind, speech and body to accomplish the Self). 'You' have become _Shuddhatma_ , so what else is left? Now, You just have to live in the Agnas.

Understand this Vignan fully. Because if you press the wrong button; you will turn on the fans on a cold winter day. With just one mistake; you will then complain that it is freezing cold. Hey, but the mistake was in pressing the wrong button. So understand this. This science is worth understanding subtly, and it gives instant fruit for _moksha_. 'You' verily are free from today onwards.

## The Akram view of acquisitiveness

**Questioner** : So as much as the _jagruti_ (awakened awareness) increases; that much indeed is the progress made?

**Dadashri** : Progress is of the awakened awareness only. As much 'sleep' (lack of awakened awareness) there is, there is that much difficulty. When does awareness ( _jagruti_ ) increase? It is when _parigraha_ (acquisitiveness) decreases. As One's needs decreases, _jagruti_ (awakened awareness) will increase.

**Questioner** : Talking about _parigraha_ , what is the difference between _parigraha_ in Akram and _parigraha_ in the _kramic_? Does the One in Akram have to reduce His _parigraha_ also? The lesser the _parigraha_ , the higher the _jagruti_ (awakened awareness); is this applicable to the _kramic_ path as well as the Akram path?

**Dadashri** : Nothing applies to the Akram path but even in Akram, if one does not have the full benefit of Akram and he has a lot of _parigraha_ , he remains all entangled. The one who has less _parigraha_ , he becomes free. When is one said to have the full benefit of Akram Vignan? It is when, no matter how much _parigraha_ (material things of comfort) is around Him; for Him it is simply, 'this will do, or that will do too.' That is exclusive and good. But one has all kinds of wrong intents ( _bhav_ ) like greed, deceit etc, have been made within. Those _kashayas_ create the entanglement. When One has a pure heart, it is a different matter. It will work because of purity!

Why don't You become pure in this very life? When You can reach a state where 'You' can 'see' 'Your' own faults, no one else has to tell you, then that is enough. There is no problem even if You 'see' them late, after the event, but 'You' 'see' them. Instead of anyone else pointing them out to you, there is nothing better than 'You' 'seeing' your own faults; such independence!

**Questioner** : Independent means that we are still talking about awakened awareness only, are we not, Dadaji?

**Dadashri** : Everything is verily awakened awareness ( _jagruti_ ), is it not? People were like that because there was no awareness. Awareness has increased all of a sudden. After Gnan, changes have taken place within a day.

**Questioner** : When I do the _Charan Vidhi_ , is that for _jagruti_?

**Dadashri** : It increases _jagruti._ Day by day, the awareness increases. Veils of ignorance ( _avaran_ ) start to break and the awareness keeps increasing. 'You' realize this when someone else shows you your mistake, do You not?

**Questioner** : I am able to 'see' some on my own.

**Dadashri** : Yes, but when 'You' do not 'know' ( _khabar_ ) them, 'We-the Gnani Purush' have to show them to You, do 'We' not? 'You' have to make enough progress whereby You are able to 'see' them by Yourself, without the need for 'Us' to show it to You.

## When is there indigestion of Gnan?

**Questioner** : Then what kind of inner experiences of the Self should happen?

**Dadashri** : This is not an inner experience, one becomes _Atma swaroop_ ; the Self. One becomes the Self forever. It prevails such for everyone ( _mahatmas_ ) without an inturuption of a even a second! Experience of the Self which comes for a while and then leaves, is not called experience ( _anubhuti, anubhav_ ).

Just as sweetness will not remain in your mouth after you are done eating a sugar-candy; there is sweetness as long as you are eating it. The experience that sugar is sweet will remain with you, even if the taste is not there in the mouth. In the same way, the constant experience of the Self remains for all these people. So, here, there is no need to ask for the 'stations of experience'. How can You ask about the station when it is constantly present? So get Your work done such that it becomes the same for You too. It will not do if You remain weak and fall short.

**Questioner** : I just wanted to ask whether one can have indigestion of Gnan.

**Dadashri** : It does happen to some people of certain age. If He has not completely understood the Gnan, then then He cannot digest it. So one has to understand the whole Gnan completely, does he not? The One who comes to _satsang_ everyday, will not have a problem but if one does not come to _satsang_ , he will have indigestion and then it will all go in the wrong direction.

## Any fear of falling in the Akram Path?

**Questioner** : In the _kramic_ path, one falls after climbing up to the eleventh level ( _gunthanu_ ) ; so is there a danger of the same happening once he climbs higher in the Akram path?

**Dadashri** : No. Here in Akram there is no fear of falling, is there? Who is there to make him fall, if He remains within the Agnas? He falls if He does not follow the Agnas. There is nothing here that will make one fall. Here the only thing is he may not move forward. There is no place for one to fall here.

In the _kramic_ path, one has moved forward by controlling ( _upsham_ ) the _moha_ (illusory attachment), without destroying ( _kshaya_ ) it. So there in that path, the resultant effect of this control is such that, he becomes a _bhagwan_ (a God in the eyes of a devotee). People will believe him to be God. Then, he will begin to think, 'now I am something!' That is the sign of falling. The _moha_ that has not been destroyed completely ( _kshaya_ ) will erupt again. _Moha_ must be destroyed. _Charitra mohaniya_ (illusory conduct in discharge ) needs to be destroyed. When You are dealing with the files, the moment You 'use' the Agnas, it is _shuddha upayoga_ (pure applied awareness). However long You remain in the Agnas, for that duration there is _shuddha upayoga_ for sure. Now despite remaining in the Agnas, one sees faults in others and claims 'he ruined it for me', then that is not considered a _shuddha_ _upayoga_. No one is at fault, is he? In the Vision of pure awareness ( _shuddha_ _upayoga_ ), not a single person in this world is at fault. From the vision that is auspicious-inauspicious, one is at fault.

## When does the lifeless ego become alive again?

**Questioner** : If someone tells me 'you are like this and like that, you are crazy', then I am not to defend myself, I should not protect myself. I should tell him that I have been that way from the beginning. If I protect myself like that, then the lifeless ego will become alive again, is that true?

**Dadashri** : It does not become living again but because You sided ( _uparanu_ ) with it, it means you will have more interferences ( _dakho_ ). If You sided with it, the whole night will pass in restlessness due to the interference. If you reply, 'I am like what you say', then it is over. What you should tell him is that 'I am as you say I am'. If you try to do 'plus or minus' with him, then you will not get any solution the whole night. That is why you should say, 'I am indeed like what you are saying'. If you talk like that then the file will settle to some extent.

**Questioner** : Then the file is settled ( _nikal_ )?

**Dadashri** : After the settlement has happened, what is Your concern?

**Questioner** : What about the defeat I accepted in front of him? Like saying, 'I am what you say I am'.

**Dadashri** : The one who accepts and admits defeat, what else is left for him to do? I have just shown You My way, the way that I followed.

And if one misses out on the five Agnas, the ego starts to become alive. Once the ego becomes alive, it will become come back to where it was. If You were to forego the Agnas, it can even become alive; it would not take long. It has become alive for many people. If the Agnas are missed; if the five Agnas are abandoned, then everything will become alive. All those who have abandoned them; their egos have become alive again. If You do not live in the five Agnas then this state of Yours will be eaten up by _kusang_ ( _kashaya_ in worldly interaction). This _kusang_ that is all around you will completely eat up your 'lifelessness of the ego'.

## Three places where one can slip in the Akram path

**Questioner** : After attaining Gnan, what are the places in the worldly life interaction where one is likely to slip?

**Dadashri** : There are only three things where one can slip after attaining Gnan. You can eat and drink, wear the clothes you like, go watch a movie, but do not eat meat. Don't drink even a single drop of alcohol and do not have adulterous relation with another man's wife. If you have sexual thoughts about her, then do _pratikraman_. These very three places are where you are likely to slip. There is nothing else that will make You fall. Slipping means, one will never recover. That is why 'we' tell You not to come along with 'Us', but if You do and if You then fall, you will not recover even a single bone of yours. 'We' are going to a very high level, instead, it is better for you to go just a little higher, at least you will find some of your bones if you were to fall from there. There are no other places of danger. Otherwise, you can run your business or do anything else, drink tea, there is no problem. Tea is intoxicating, but you can still drink it, there is no problem with it because it will not make you intoxicated (like alcohol). If you drink alcohol, it will make the self unconscious and that will be the end of it. Then all the Gnan will be gone and you will get a life in hell. It will be the same with having adulterous relationship with a married woman, and there is no solution for that. There is no end if one drinks alcohol or eats meat. Make a note of that. You do not like the places that can make you fall, do you?

## Progress only through asking the living Gnani

The path which You have been shown, that verily is the path. I have given 'You' the path that I have followed. I have only given You the path of 'My' experience. This path of experience does not exist in any scripture. There is not a single word in the scripture which is such that it shows the path of experience of the Self, which can help the people of this current era of the time cycle.

**Questioner:** So many times You have said, 'make the direct connection ( _pratyaksha_ ) in 'Our' presence.'

**Dadashri:** That is what 'we' are saying, 'do the direct _pratyaksha_ connection in 'Our' presence', means you have had your experience, if you are entangled in that experience, then you ask through 'our' experience, so that the entanglements of your experience get resolved. That experience then 'fits' you. That is the very thing you have to do, that is all. We have a stock of experience ( _anubhav_ ). For you, the experiences are occurring. Once you ask, 'is this right or is that right?', then You will attain total clearance ( _nivedo_ ).

**Questioner** : That is why we should come and ask you about whatever confusion is going on in whatever is happening, so that we can settle it.

**Dadashri** : Yes, ask me during the night, ask me during the day, ask at any time! There is no such thing that you can only ask at three o'clock. This is not something that needs auspicious timing. Auspicious timings are required outside, here you can come even at eleven at night and ask the questions for solution of the entanglement.

## Dadashri's experiences with five Agnas

If you follow the five Agnas, uninterrupted _samadhi_ (bliss of the Self) will be there; liberation prevails _moksha_ _vartey_. This which 'we' have given You is what 'we' have tasted! 'We' have given You the thing ( _vsatu_ ), the Self, which 'we' have experienced.

**Questioner:** How have You experienced the five Agnas, Dadaji?

**Dadashri:** 'We' experienced them the way all these people ( _mahatmas_ ) did. Ask them and you will know.

**Questioner:** You have said that You did not come via the path of Akram Vignan.

**Dadashri:** No, I have come through the _kramic_ path.

**Questioner** : So you do not have experience of Akram but You said that You have 'seen' through Akram Gnan.

**Dadashri:** Yes, that is correct. 'Our' earnings have been through the _kramic_ path, but Akram came into fruition. But 'we' had worked very hard.

**Questioner:** So Dada, Your experiences are of different kindd, no?

**Dadashri:** They are very extensive. They can make a big history. They are not such that they can be described in few words.

**Questioner:** Dada, out of the five Agnas, which one did You have the most experience of?

**Dadashri:** The Agna of _vyavasthit_ (scientific circumstantial evidences), had come into the experience the most. 'We' had brought _'vyavasthit'_ from the beginning. That is why in these five Agnas there is the discovery and elucidation of _vyavasthit_. 'Our' original investigation and discovery is that of ' _vyavasthit_ '. Otherwise this world can never exist without worrying about the future ( _agrashocha_ ). _Agrashocha_ means 'what will happen?' The whole world, ascetics and renunciants are in it; they are absorbed in these very worries. _Vyavasthit_ has absolutely discarded and dissipated all worries of the future.

**Questioner:** If the Agna of _vyavasthit_ dissipates all the worries, does it mean that all the problems are gone?

**Dadashri:** All the problems leave and furthermore One experiences that 'yes, really it is _vyavasthit_ only.' If You set it up this way, then the worries will go away.

**Questioner:** These first two Agnas must have come into experience after the Self-realization in 1958, no?

**Dadashri:** Yes, that came into experience at the time of Gnan. 'What is this?' 'What is this?' - all that came into experience.

**Questioner:** Did you have any idea about these two Agnas before that (Self-realization)?

**Dadashri:** I used to have some understanding ( _samaj_ ) that this is _vyavahar_ (relative worldly interaction) and this is _nischaya_ (the Self).

**Questioner:** And they came in exactness after Gnan?

**Dadashri:** That's it! It came into experience ( _anubhav_ ) only at the time of Gnan.

**Questioner:** Then to settle files with equanimity...?

**Dadashri** : That 'we' had been doing from the beginning, even when 'we' did not have Gnan! 'We' used to read about Krupaludev, so 'we' used to bring a solution. Not with complete equanimity, but with associated annoyance and compromise. 'We' would get annoyed and then cool down. With this ' _sambhave nikal_ (settling file with equanimity) of Ours, one does not get irritated or annoyed or any such thing. 'We' cleanse everything by blessing the other person.

**Questioner:** This matter about settling matters with equanimity along with blessing the opponent is a new one. When did Your account-book of _Shuddhatma_ open?

**Dadashri:** The day this Gnan manifested within.

**Questioner:** Dada, we _mahatmas_ added credits to our account-book of Shuddhatma by doing Your _darshan,_ how did You do it?

**Dadashri:** What credit and what deposit? The entire Gnan manifested in just one day! Yesterday's A. M. Patel, today became _Shuddhatma,_ exclusively just through Vision ( _drashti_ ) _._ A change in vision ( _drashtipher_ ) took place, no?

**Questioner** : How did this _drashti_ became so tenaciously strong for You within an hour?

**Dadashri** : What cannot happen through grace? What cannot happen when the Lord's grace falls on you?

**Questioner** : We all are being graced by Dada Bhagwan that has fully manifested within You. How did grace fall upon you?

**Dadashri** : How would I know how it fell on me? Someone turned me around! That is why I am saying it is "but natural", spontaneous, is it not?

## Experience of Dada's Presence

**Questioner** : We experience extra peace, and bliss in Your presence.

**Dadashri** : This presence is a completely different thing! 'You' are seeing my presence, but the 'presence' that I 'see', that 'presence' is what You are experiencing ( _vartaya_ ) also. The Lord of the fourteen worlds ( _lokas_ ), the Lord of this universe has manifested within; I benefit from that and so do You. This much proximity is needed; that is all. The closer You are, the greater the benefit and the surrounding environment will always be wonderful. In that, the environment makes a difference! Nevertheless there is benefit in nearness and that too if the understanding is there, there is no benefit if there is no understanding.

**Questioner** : The environment feels as if the Tirthankaras are around...

**Dadashri** : The whole environment changes with just 'the presence'. But the environment of the Tirthankara is incomparable. It cannot be compared. Even the physical body of a Tirthankara is God!

## Absolute God will manifest, if the intellect stops

This A. M. Patel is not Dada Bhagwan, the One who has manifested within, the One who is the Lord of the universe, 'He' is Dada Bhagwan. You have, within you, that Dada Bhagwan, but He has not manifested yet. 'He' should come into full light. Now He will begin to come into full light.

Now, if the intellect ( _buddhi_ ) enters into it, it will spoil things. Therefore, tell the _buddhi_ , 'Continue doing worldly things, as you are doing, and do not interfere in 'This'. I am handing over to you, all that is relative and the real I am handing to Gnan'. This is called Gnan. The Gnan that You have been given, will later fully manifest as perfect science ( _vignan_ ). Right now, God is within You in the form of Gnan for sure, and will later become the form of Vignan ( _vignanswaroop_ ). It is because of this _vignan_ form, it is called the state of God.

The Gnan 'we' have given You is in its exact place. Whatever understanding that has taken place within You, is Yours. Rest of the understanding has not happened yet. The main Gnan that has been given to You; the exactness of that has not come to You completely. Till then 'You' will feel that it is increasing. Otherwise, this Gnan is the one and the same; it is in its main form only. Once it comes into exactness in its main form, then there will not be any increase or decrease. What is this increase and decrease? The Vision ( _drashti_ ) that unfolds for You increases day by day. It is trying to come into its main form. It is trying to come into the form which was given to You.

## Mahatma will one day, become God

**Questioner** : You had said that You want to make us all Gods; that will happen when it happens, but we have not become that at the moment, have we?

**Dadashri** : That will happen because this is Akram Vignan. The one who is the 'Maker' is a _nimit_ , and the One who has the desire to become One; when these two keep getting together, then it will certainly happen. The Maker is "clear" and Yours is "clear". There are no ulterior motives on Your part and so one day all the obstacles will be destroyed and You will become God, which truly is who You are!

JAI SAT CHIT ANAND

The Awareness of the Eternal is Bliss

## Aptavanis Illuminate the Steps of Experience of The Self...

This book of Aptavani is something very special indeed. Speech that comes from experience of the Self is extremely rare. There can never be a book on experience of spirituality. This Aptavani has that experience only. The examples are of the experience. 'We' have described everything from the mountaintop. Nowhere has the complete experience been disclosed, because those people come to the station of experience of the Self, disclosed part of it, but they stopped saying the rest of the experience. However, this Aptavani of ours, is about the complete experience. This Aptavani will work forever.

~Gnani Purush Dadashri

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