

### Frequently Asked Questions:

### Bible & Bible Quotations

### By

### Jesus (AJ Miller) &

### Mary Magdalene (Mary Luck)

### Session 1

Published by

Divine Truth, Australia at Smashwords

http://www.divinetruth.com/

Copyright 2015 Divine Truth

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### This ebook is a collection of answers given by Jesus (AJ Miller) on the topic of the Christian Bible. The answers were given in an interview with Mary Magdalene (Mary Luck), who posed frequently asked questions from members of the media and public, on 21st January 2013 in Wilkesdale, Queensland, Australia. In this session Jesus discusses the truth and error contained within the Bible, how the flaws in the Bible have impacted on the Christian faith, and the Bible verses about his life in the first century and the second coming of Christ.

### Reminder From Jesus & Mary

### Jesus and Mary would like to remind you that any document produced by Divine Truth containing any information from Jesus, Mary or any other person includes only a portion of God's Truth that they have personally discovered.

### It does not and cannot contain the entire of God's Truth since God's Truth is infinite and humankind will forever continue to discover more of God's Truth as we progress in receiving more of God's Love.

### Please remember that due to these limitations information contained within this document may need to be revised in the future.

### Many other ebooks have been published by Divine Truth, including ebooks translated into a variety of different languages.

### Please visit <http://www.Smashwords.com/profile/view/DivineTruth> or www.divinetruth.com for further information.

### Additional sessions on the subject in this book can be found on www.Smashwords.com/profile/view/DivineTruth

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Table of Contents

1. Are you banking on your followers being biblically illiterate?

2. What is your general opinion of the Bible?

3. Is the Bible the full and only truth that we should live by?

4. What subjects does the Bible cover that you believe are seriously flawed?

5. What are the Bible's most serious flaws?

6. What subjects does the Bible cover that you believe are beneficial to humankind?

7. What subjects in the Bible do you believe contain inaccuracies?

8. How do you feel the Bible portrays your character?

9. What are your comments on verses about Jesus' 2nd coming?

10. John 5:26-30 Do you see yourself as the judge of humankind?

11. Matt 24:29-31 Why haven't you made things right here on earth?

12. Matt 24:23-27 How do we know you're not a false prophet?

13. Matt 24:4-5 Are you not just another false Christ deceiving us?

14. Are you not a false prophet and deceiver? You will go to hell!

15. Matt 24:4-5 Who would come in your name and deceive many?

1. Are you banking on your followers being biblically illiterate?

**Mary:** Are you banking on your followers being biblically illiterate?

I have to smile at this question, hey. Obviously a lot of sarcasm comes through with a lot of the questions we receive, particularly questions that we receive from Christians. There seems to be quite a lot of sarcasm present in the questions. Am I banking on my followers being biblically illiterate? Well, probably the first thing I'd like to do is discuss the issue of sarcasm in questioning.

According to the Bible and maybe if I could use the Bible's quotations ... The person here is talking about being biblically illiterate. Obviously the person has a feeling that they are biblically literate themselves and therefore they feel that biblical literacy is very very important in anything that is being presented. Of course, I say quite frankly and openly and honestly at all of our seminars that we don't agree with the Bible being God's word, so there really is no need for a person to be biblically literate in order to understand the different things that we are presenting to them. In the first century there was also no need for anybody to be biblically literate to understand what I was teaching them, and that's the case in both centuries. The need for literacy, with the common word of the day that was agreed to be God's word is not important in understanding Divine Truth and it's definitely not important when it comes to demonstrating Love.

But we can maybe just go through some Bible verses talking about this particular attitude of sarcasm and then I'm happy to answer the question more fully. Let's look firstly at "the Jesus of the Bible," in his words as recorded in Matthew 22. The verses I'm looking for here were the verses where he was asked the question "What is the greatest commandment?" and in Matthew 22, verses 37-39 he gave this answer. He said "Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind. This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second, like it, is Love your neighbour as yourself."

So the primary commandments of all of that was written before Jesus came onto the Earth in the first century ... and it's very hard for me to talk about Jesus in the third person for the sake of people because it was me who was saying all of these things, but when I was on Earth in the first century I could see that the primary commandment that was required was to love, and love would be the guiding force of everything. And then, if we look in Matthew chapter 7, there's another verse that says "So in everything, do to others what you would have them do unto you for this sums up the law and the prophets." Here I was talking about this point of ethics. The point of ethics is, "Don't do to other people what you would not like to have done to you."

Now this person here is being sarcastic with me. I'm pretty sure this person would probably not like to have people being sarcastic with them, so they have already broken that particular principle. Although they are biblically literate they have already broken the principle that they say they are literate about. So just because a person has biblical literacy, it doesn't mean that they love and it doesn't mean that they have any idea what love actually is nor have any idea what ethical treatment of another person is.

Literacy doesn't guarantee understanding at the heart level. In the first century there were obviously many people that I spoke to. I spoke to Pharisees quite frequently. Many of the Pharisees had exactly the same attitude. They would come to me asking sarcastic questions demonstrating their lack of literacy when it came to understanding. They understood from an intellectual perspective. They were literate; they were well educated. They knew about the Bible at that time, let's call it the Torah, which was the main thing that they understood, but they had also read many of the prophets. They read it as a point of holiness. They didn't read it for personal application. They read it for a point of holiness, a 'proof' of their own holiness or worth. As a result of that they would read this material and then of course they would try to force the people to follow the material, even when they did not follow it themselves.

And their literacy did not guarantee their honesty, did not guarantee their truthfulness. It did not guarantee their love. In many cases it actually assisted them to have a poor character because they felt more important than others, that they had more worth than others. As a result of that they were very unloving people at the time. And this is what I find with many Christians who send me abusive emails. They can be very unloving while at the same time quoting a whole heap of Bible verses to me. Now generally I don't feel inclined to answer a lot of these questions. But I am going to point out their unloving behaviour to people and I feel this is why, with the answer of this question, it's very important for me to first focus on the unloving behaviour.

There's another scripture in First John, chapter 4 verse 20 which talks about love and it says "If anyone says 'I love God' yet hates his brother he is a liar. For anyone who does not love his brother whom he has seen cannot love God whom he has not seen." Now when I look at that verse I go, "Okay. Here is a person who's demonstratively not really asking a question but making a sarcastic statement. They have no love for me at all, in fact quite a lot of anger and hatred directed towards me in the question, which is a demonstration that they do not practice those three verses that I've just read out. Even though they may be biblically literate, it hasn't helped them to come to a proper understanding of the truth. It hasn't helped them to become more loving. It hasn't helped them in any way really. In fact, according to 'their Jesus' words, they are not even following their Jesus, the Jesus of the first century that they say they believe in.

Obviously those are words that I did state and they are definitely not following the teaching that I gave them in the first century, let alone anything I might teach now. So my suggestion to such people is, "Stop asking sarcastic questions, start looking at your sarcasm as a problem, as an issue of love or lack of love and start addressing the particular problems that you have with a lack of love. It's the lack of love that will determine how well your life will be lived on Earth and how well you will be received into the spirit world. It's not what you know about the Bible that will help you."

I have seen many people on Earth who know lots and lots about the Bible. All through the dark ages there were many murderers who were priests who knew everything about the Bible. Yet their lack of love demonstrated towards others was blatantly obvious and by the time they passed they were in such a dark condition; they are still in the hells today as a result of their dark condition and their actions. Being biblically literate didn't help them at all. But let's get to the question.

The question is "Do I expect my followers to be biblically illiterate?" No I don't. In fact I would prefer that any person who comes along to a seminar ... and I don't feel that any person who comes along to a seminar is my follower by the way; in fact I don't feel that I have many followers at all at this point. If people were copying my life and my lifestyle ... at this point I have not yet met another person on Earth who is copying my life and my lifestyle so I can't say honestly that there's any person who is following me.

There are many people who are attempting to follow the teachings that we present in our seminars and my feelings are that I would love them all to be very biblically literate and very literate when it comes to the Quran and very literate when it came to any writings, scientific and religious, on the planet, because in that regard you can understand where everybody around you is coming from. You can understand why they have the particular feelings they have, the particular emotions they have. What is driving their misunderstandings or their disbelief and all these other things can be determined through understanding where a person is coming from. So I feel it's very very important to actually understand where a person is coming from and given that 1.4 billion people on the planet are Christian it would be very good, if you cared about people, that you would read up on the Bible and find out about the Bible and look into the Bible as I have done for 20 years in this life and for a lot of my 2,000 years of life. It's very good for you to examine the Bible carefully and clearly because if you do you will have a very good way in which you can help other people but also understand them.

Now the fact that there are 33,000 Christian sects on this planet is an indication that every single Christian has a tendency to interpret the Bible in a different way. My suggestion is that God is a clear being with very clear laws and if a book can have 33,000 different types of people analysing it differently and formulating different religions as the basis of that analysis then obviously it's not a very clear book. So my suggestion to people is, "Examine it but don't necessarily believe everything it says, because if it can create 33,000 different sects there's got to be something wrong.

**Mary:** Yeah, and I suppose I feel that underlying this question is the implication that you are banking on people not understanding the Bible so that you can in some way exploit their ignorance by ...

... claiming that I'm Jesus, and their ignorance about the Bible and what the Bible says about Jesus.

**Mary:** And that the way that you live and what you actually teach doesn't marry with what the Bible says you should be.

Yep. And it certainly doesn't. I don't make any claims that it does. There are certain things that the Bible contains that I actually did say and that I do agree with. There are certain things that the Bible contains that I definitely do not agree with and there are many errors in the Bible, added by people who wanted to add the errors, though some of the errors even came from the original writers. Many of them were not inspired of God as is claimed but rather were inspired of spirits that they were connecting to and prophesying with. Many of these things are not completely accurate and you cannot expect them to be. I knew that in the first century; just as much and even more so I know it now. I have the advantage over many people with regard to examination of the Bible because my own personal life is included in the Bible inaccurately. So therefore I know that it is not God's word.

**Mary:** And so just to clarify: Do you hide this belief from people who attend your seminars and do you discourage them from exploring the Bible?

No. I encourage them to explore the Bible but I do not hide from people the fact that I do not agree that the Bible is God's word. In fact I disagree quite strongly that the Bible is God's word. However, I do feel a lot of other different things about the Bible, which we will cover in different questions, and I do have a deep love of the Bible for a lot of reasons, but that doesn't mean that I agree with everything that it says.

And I never did. In the first century I never agreed with everything it said either. Anybody who thinks that I did isn't honestly looking at the record. For example, in the first century it was commonly claimed by the people of the day that I should not engage with spirits, that I should not have any discussion with spirits. I often talked to spirits in the first century. There are records in the Bible of me talking to high spirits and spirits who were in a dark condition. I completely ignored that directive that was in Leviticus in the Torah, that I had read, because I knew it was written by people who did not understand what was actually going on.

The same applies with many other things I examined in the Bible. In the first century, I watched my mother apply the law in her day-to-day life when it comes to menstruation and after the birth of all of my brothers and sisters. In the case of my mother, whenever she had a daughter she had to have 66 days by herself after the birth because she was following Leviticus, the law. My father was a Pharisee or wanted to become a Pharisee at the time and of course he wanted her to follow the law as an example to everyone else and as a result of that, for 66 days she remained pretty much in isolation in the sense that we couldn't touch her, she couldn't hold her children, anything she did would become touched with her uncleanness and I knew that this was wrong. This was a way of ostracising and removing women from Truth and also treating women badly. It was a way of men controlling women and treating women badly. I knew that, so I completely ignored that in my own dealings with women. There are many women, and the Bible even records such, who touched me while they were menstruating in order to heal some particular problems that they had, some woman problems that they had. And I was perfectly okay with that as well. I have always ignored unloving texts in holy books my entire life, first century and now.

So please anybody who's listening to any of the seminars don't expect me to quote everything word for word from the Bible without there being some kind of critical analysis.

2. What's your general opinion of the Bible?

**Mary:** What's your general opinion of the Bible?

Well I suppose my general position on the Bible could be broken into two primary groups of feelings. One is my personal feelings about the Bible, in terms of how it's affected my life personally and the second group could be the feelings I have about how the Bible has affected many people's lives other than mine. I feel very different opinions based on those two subjects.

So let's cover the first. This is that I feel quite strongly about the Bible. I have quite a strong love for the Bible because of the things it brought me personally, particularly in my first century life. I had access to the books that are now contained within the Bible at different times of my life, particularly during my childhood; I would visit synagogues regularly throughout my life and I spent a lot of time studying what is now called the Old Testament of the Bible. This is the reason why I could quote pieces of the Old Testament of the Bible to the Pharisees of the day.

My feelings are that without the Bible, or without what was the Bible in the first century, which was the Torah and the holy books and the psalms and the proverbs, without those records being available and being copied by copiers, I would probably not have discovered what I did discover about God in terms of God's Love and God's Truth. Once I removed all of the unlovingness, I suppose you could call it, in all of what I read, I could see in those books that there were times when the particular people who wrote these verses were totally inspired by God, I feel. At other times they were inspired by very dark and addictive and quite evil emotions. But there were times when they were really inspired by God and when I read those particular passages I always felt a very strong connection with God and I knew in that moment that this was a truth about God. In that moment.

Every time I read, for example, about God being a punishing God, being the God of the Israelites who would lead them into the promised land and destroy the wicked people around about, I always felt disconnection from that, so I never really believed any of that as God's motivation for the Israelite nation. But when I read about how God feels about the individual, how God has this longing to have a connection, to have the heart of people change from a heart of stone into a heart of flesh and all of these other things, I felt a deep passion for God under those circumstances and I realised, "Yeah, this is really getting down to the meat of what God is all about." And so I started to see through this interaction that there were times of inspiration of these people who had written.

During those times there was a lot of truth and a lot of love that would come through the material and then I also started noticing that this time of truth and love had such a huge effect on me that it started me through a process of investigating and experimenting with receiving love from God, and knowing how to receive truth from God. For that reason I have a very very strong love for those particular books of the Bible; there are some prophetic books that really appeal to me and there were some psalms and proverbs that really appealed to me.

I really focussed on those particular books. They were books that I realised were given through the process of prophecy, which is a process where a spirit over-cloaks or controls a person on Earth to write certain things. Under those circumstances the spirits were in quite good condition and they were telling the people on Earth things that were really quite inspirational. However, when I read the law which was mostly written by man and definitely written by men who were just governors, and sometimes spirits who wanted to govern the Israelite nation, I always felt a very very strong disconnection from God and therefore I knew that these weren't God's Laws but rather these were man's laws.

I could tell the difference between parts of the so-called word of God that were really the word of God, in the sense that they were what God felt about certain things, and parts of the word of God that weren't the word of God at all but rather just the creations of mankind in order to control and legalise a system of controls for humankind, the Israelite nation in my case. So that's how I saw the Bible at that time, but I have a deep love for it.

Now in comparison to that, how do I feel about how the Bible affects people now? Well that's very different because I see that when they analyse the Bible, most people do it from one of two different directions. One is that they criticise everything in it, or two, they accept everything in it as God's word. There's no middle analysis, or it's very rare to see this middle-road type of analysis in a person that I had in the first century and that I've had all my life.

I notice people polarising when it comes to examination of the Bible. The people who criticise the Bible and who do not accept anything in it are not accepting quite a lot of things in it that are about love and ethics and truth. I feel that these particular people are quite disadvantaged at times because of their dismissal of everything. It's like the old saying, "They're throwing out the baby with the bathwater." The bath water is bad so you throw out the whole thing. This is what I feel a lot of people do with the Bible, dismissing it completely; in fact many people who come along to our seminars have dismissed the Bible completely and when I start quoting different Bible texts they get very challenged. Many of them have a deep amount of rage associated with the Bible; they have rage associated with religious control and so as a result of that, when you start quoting the Bible, they get all stressed out that you're creating some kind of new religion or something, when it's just ideas and concepts that you're trying to present.

The second group of people are a group of people who believe that the Bible is wholly God's word, completely God's word without modification, that God has protected this Bible throughout the centuries from its creation and these people believe, or say they believe, absolutely everything in it. Of course, bearing in mind the fact that there are at least 33,000 Christian denominations on the planet at the present time, this would indicate that everyone interprets it differently, which is an issue in itself. And obviously interpretations are very open to emotional constructs. That means that if emotionally I can't accept a certain interpretation, then I dismiss that interpretation and search for another. Many people do that with the Bible but they still think that it's wholly God's word; they still believe that everything in it is true.

I can't agree with that and I have also seen quite a lot of damage caused by that. There are many people who have been severely damaged by that attitude that they have reflected in the Bible. There have been huge justifications historically for slavery, for the murder of other religious denominations and other religious people who practice different religions throughout the centuries based on different quotations from the Bible, and this is an indication of the fruits of what complete belief in something does. It causes huge numbers of problems if what you completely believe in is not based on love and truth.

And the Bible is not completely based on love and truth. It just is not. There are many lies contained within it, even about my own life. There are definitely a lot of lies and blasphemy in it about God, about God's Nature and God's Attributes and Qualities. There are a lot of truths too. The key, when you read it, is to be able to determine the truth from the lies. And I feel it's well worth reading to work through this emotion inside of yourself of how to determine the truth from lies. It's a great book for doing that. You can work through the truth and you can work through, "Oh, this bit here can't be true because I can feel that this is based on some kind of unloving behaviour or unloving idea or unloving concept." So you can dismiss those particular ideas as lies. They are not true. They are not true about God in many cases or many other events.

I have the advantage of course, of having a personal life associated with the Bible in the sense that part of my personal life is recorded in the Bible. I know that much of that was not recorded accurately so I know that it wasn't the truth and therefore it cannot be God's word; it was just the word of men. In fact I knew a lot of the men who wrote bits and pieces of it and in time, after my passing, I met every person who wrote every book of the Bible and had discussions with every single one of them about what was true and what wasn't true, what parts were embellishments, what parts were complete fabrications, and what parts were actually true. I've had the advantage of having discussions with every one of those people, as does any person. Any person who passes in the spirit world has the advantage of asking these people to come to them and say, "Is this true, is that true, is this true, is that true?" Many don't of course because they want to hold on to their concept that the Bible is God's word. But if they do that they learn many things. Many things were true and many things are not true, and they learn that through this process.

I feel though, that there is a huge amount of damage that is caused by this indoctrination in the Bible. The indoctrination into any form of religion and any form of text is in itself flawed, because no text presented on this planet could ever contain the full truth. So it is flawed as a concept to believe that one text contains the full truth about any subject and this is because God is infinite and God's Truths are infinite and we are going to be constantly discovering more truth. This is what drives the interest in most of our lives. The truth will be scientific as well as informational as well as sometimes as what people might classify as religious, or it will affect our way of life, it will be about our personal development. There will be lots of truths. And these particular truths will grow over time because we're growing.

We learn more about love, we learn more about truth so we change and we understand something more as a result. If you use the Bible as a tool to do that then it's a very valuable tool. If you use the Bible saying, "No, it's the definite word of God, there's no other word of God," and all those kinds of things then straight away you have now become indoctrinated by it and you are now formulating a fixed position, which is a very unwise thing to do in your life.

Once you have formed a fixed position you are now not demonstrating any humility to learn new truth. Now you've become an arrogant person with a fixed view of truth and this is very very damaging to your future life, very damaging to your relationship with God, very damaging to your relationship with your partner, very damaging to your relationship with friends, very damaging to your peaceful and harmonious relationship with people in the world. Every time you force a position and then criticise and condemn other people for not having the same position, you are now going down a very dangerous road which creates a lot of disharmony.

That doesn't mean that you can't state the truth that you know. You can state the truth that you know. And the truth that has been proven to you can be stated. For instance, most people in the western world know that if they flick the light switch there's electrical power, which they have learnt a little bit about at least. They know that it's dangerous under certain conditions but they also know that it's very helpful under certain conditions and it turns on a light bulb and they can see at night if they want to. So you know there's a truth there. They can accept that particular truth. Now 200 years ago, nobody believed that. Not a single person believed that. Three or four hundred years ago most people didn't even conceive that it was possible. So truth is obviously something that develops over time.

The same applies to truth about God. In fact, it applies to the truth about God the most because God is infinite. God is more infinite than anything God has created so therefore God is going to be far more difficult to know right now. And then to say, "I know God completely," when time will show other truths about God all the time. It's always going to be a process of development.

So logically it makes no sense to believe that the Bible is God's word; that the Bible is wholly the only word of God. Any person who does that, I feel, will find themselves quite disappointed in future, because in the future they'll realise what has actually happened to the Bible, and when I say their future it might be after they have passed into the spirit world.

There has also been a lot of spirit influence in the creation of the Bible, people's ideas being transmitted from the spirit world onto Earth, and these particular things that are contained in the Bible were definitely not God's word but rather the word of spirits in the spirit world who have transmitted this word to others who were so-called inspired of God. That's what a Christian might call them but I would call them inspired. Not of God, just inspired in the sense that they have the ability to communicate with spirits and transmit information from them.

**Mary:** Okay, just to summarise, can I ask you some very direct questions?

Sure.

**Mary:** Do you believe that the Bible is an accurate representation of God's word?

Definitely not.

**Mary:** Do you believe that there's any benefit in the Bible?

Yes I do.

**Mary:** Have you benefited personally from the Bible?

Immensely. Immensely. Particularly in the first century. I would never have discovered God's Love without it.

**Mary:** How can a person use discernment then when they use the Bible?

In the manner that I have previously described in this answer. That is, to look at Love and Truth as the measuring sticks and any time that something is mentioned that's out of harmony with Love, or that feels out of harmony with love to the person, to dismiss it until such a time that it's proven some other way.

**Mary:** And what about people who say that they turn to the Bible to learn Love and Truth?

Well, you can't learn Love and Truth from everything in the Bible. There are many unloving behaviours recommended in the Bible. This applies to the treatment of women, to the treatment of people of different races, and the treatment of people who disagree with you. Going to war and other things that are all contained within the Bible are obviously all evidence of unloving behaviour so you can't just across the board assume that the Bible portrays loving behaviour. There are many things in the Bible that do portray correct loving behaviour but you are going to need to have some discernment and wisdom in order to determine what they are.

**Mary:** How does one develop this discernment and wisdom?

By receiving God's Love. When we receive God's Love we start to discern everything through the Love that we have received. Then we start having discernment and wisdom. We now start seeing, "Oh, that can't be true and this must be true," just through measuring it by the Love that we have received. One of the things that I do recommend that people do with the Bible is to have a look at how the Bible says to receive God's Love. Because the Bible does talk about being born again. It does talk about becoming at-one with God. There are many quotations of my own where I illustrate how to become at-one with God. Illustrations and metaphors and all of these things can be looked at in order to develop this personal relationship with God. This is why it's a very powerful book, in fact it is the only book that talks about at-onement with God and being born again. It's the only holy book on the planet that does that and for that reason it's unique. That's why I also have a deep amount of respect and love for it. But I do not assume that it contains all of God's word, and that's the main difference between myself and many Christians who then throw a whole heap of Bible verses at me which are obviously out of harmony with love and therefore out of harmony with truth. We'll talk about some of them in the different questions that you are asking today.

3. Is the Bible the full and only truth that we should live by?

**Mary:** Is the Bible the full and only truth that we should live by?

Well, as I've said many times in my seminars, God is an infinite being as far as I am aware and God's Love is infinite. I also believe, as a result, that God's Truth is infinite. Now an infinite truth cannot ever be contained in a finite book. A book like the Bible is generally around about a thousand pages or so, and there is no way that such a book can contain all of the truth of God. In fact the Bible itself even states that. It actually suggests in the Book of Revelation that there will be further revelations of Truth at some point in the future, and so the Bible itself suggests that it is not the complete revelation of God. Any person who assumes that it's the complete revelation of God is already making an invalid assumption that is not based on any logic but rather based on what they hope, which is very very different from actually having any accuracy in terms of truth or any proof or evidence, in terms of whether the Bible should be the thing we live by.

If the Bible contained only loving and truthful things then I would say, "Yes, you could live by it completely if you wanted to live by a limited book, bearing in mind that it is limited because it's not infinite, and therefore cannot contain everything that you might want to live by in the future." However, the Bible does not just contain things about love and truth. The Bible also contains many errors, many lies, many misrepresentations of God, many blasphemous things about God, things about God that are obviously completely inaccurate and untruthful. Many things that are about my life in the first century are completely inaccurate and untruthful and so therefore it cannot be trusted to be lived by.

There are many things in the Bible that you could live by and do well. In fact if you looked at the Bible's viewpoint of ethics for example, particularly what I presented in the first century about the Golden Rule, as I've mentioned many times, if you lived by that in your life you would do very well. You'd never want somebody to murder you, so you wouldn't murder anybody. You'd never want somebody to go to war with you, so you wouldn't go to war with anybody. You'd never want somebody to rape you, so you wouldn't rape anybody. You'd never want somebody to steal from you, so you wouldn't steal from anybody, and so forth. If you followed that one principle, which is one verse in the Bible, then you would do very, very well; you'd pass over into the spirit world in a very good condition if you followed it completely.

The majority of people who even profess to believe in the Bible don't do that though. The majority of people have no idea how to act ethically with one another and therefore break that one principle quite frequently. It's the one principle that I said fulfilled all the law and the prophets and it's the one principle that most people have huge amounts of difficulty following. So my personal feeling about following the Bible is that you need to be able to have discernment about what the Bible is actually saying to you and whether it is a loving concept that it's presenting to you.

Now if it seems to be a loving concept that it's presenting, we have to then question whether our concept of love is accurate or not. If we feel that it's a loving concept then it requires a lot of logical analysis to determine whether it is actually a loving concept. For example, you could look at the Bible's concept of sacrifice and particularly my sacrifice. The Bible's concept is that I sacrificed my life for the sin of the world. Now that might appeal to some people. That might appeal to them for a lot of reasons. Having somebody come along and wipe out all of their own sins without them having to do anything sounds like a fairly appealing thing at times. However if they analysed it from the point of view of their having to deal with the sins of every other person who is on the planet it wouldn't feel very fair. There is a deep feeling of injustice associated with it if you're the person on the receiving end of having to do the sacrifice for the others.

Now if they felt about that, they would realise that it's not a very loving concept and therefore it's a concept that can be dismissed and not practised. Most Christians would be up in arms about me saying that but it's the reality. The reality is that my sacrifice never happened. I never sacrificed my life for their sake in the manner in which they believe it. And the sacrifice did not accomplish the forgiveness of their sins. In fact the sacrifice did not accomplish anything for them aside from proving I was alive after I died. It did not accomplish much else. It also harmed many of my friends in the first century and myself. It harmed you (referring to Mary) in the first century. My unborn child and many others were harmed as a result of the so-called sacrifice, which is an indication that it's an unloving concept.

If somebody analysed what is present in the Bible from the perspective of love they would then know what to practice and what not to, what to stay away from. My suggestion is that people do that, learn the difference, have the discernment to work out the difference between what is loving and what is not and once they learn what is loving, practice it. Because it is love that dictates the rest of your future.

**Mary:** So to clarify again. Do you believe that the Bible is the full and only truth that you should live by?

No.

**Mary:** Where does this concept come from? That it is the full and only truth that we should live by.

Well the Bible itself states that it is inspired of God and the only inspired word of God. Men wrote this in order to have people believe what they said and not accept anything else. To actually make this statement is a way of controlling people. Because the Bible states this many people believe it and as a result of them believing it they then assume that everything that's contained within it is the inspired word of God and they feel that anybody who doesn't follow it can be condemned. They also believe that anybody who doesn't follow it will be condemned by God and that's not the case at all. I've seen many people pass into the spirit world in my life and you'd be surprised how many people have never ever seen the Bible and were definitely not condemned by God, because they had love in their soul. They practised love. Love, as I stated in the first century, was the crux of all life. If you learn to practice love, rather than just believe in a book, you will do far better than believing in a book that also mentions a lot of unloving things.

4. What subjects does the Bible cover that you believe are seriously flawed?

**Mary:** What subjects does the Bible cover that you believe are seriously flawed?

Well, it depends on the degree of the flaw doesn't it. I feel that the Bible is seriously flawed in its discussion of God. It really portrays God terribly. It portrays God almost like a megalomaniac person on Earth, a person who is a dictator, and God's not like this at all. I feel that's its primary flaw. The problem is that if you believe in a God like that you finish up becoming like that yourself, and that's not a good thing either. Whatever you believe in you often finish up becoming and so if you believe in a God that's a dictator and a megalomaniac - and God's not like that - who wants power and wants the worship of everybody, if you believe in a God like that then eventually you start enforcing the opinions of that kind of God. That's why there have been a lot of Christian-based wars on this planet, as a result of those particular opinions.

Also, what the Bible says about the human soul isn't accurate at all. There are some parts of it that are accurate when it comes to the human soul but a lot of it is not accurate.

What the Bible states about what is proper behaviour between people: Some of that is accurate and some of that is not.

How the Bible views women: a very inaccurate viewpoint of women and therefore a very inaccurate viewpoint of the soul. The equality of the sexes is something that's not well presented in the Bible and is in fact disagreed with in the Bible and therefore out of harmony with Truth and out of harmony with God. Yeah, there are so many issues you could list where there are major flaws.

**Mary:** What about issues of sexuality and homosexuality? Would you say ...

Well, these are areas where there are some flaws and there are also some truths. The Bible does contain areas where there are some flaws and some truths. On the issue of sexuality, obviously having moral behaviour between partners, between men and women, between men and men, and women and women, is part of the truth. However the whole concept that homosexuality is condemned by God is completely false. Some of my best friends in the spirit world are homosexual in nature in the sense that their soulmate is the same gender, and was the same gender on Earth, as they are. The apostle John is one of those persons. The whole concept of homosexuality is completely in error and as people grow in love they start to realise that it is completely in error. A lot of people justify it through the natural use of a woman and the natural use of a man and all these other justifications but they are all just justifications written in a book and as a person grows in love and grows towards God they start realising that these justifications have no basis in truth and no basis in love either. So the Bible is severely flawed in some areas of morality, quite true.

**Mary:** What about historical issues or issues about your life?

Again, it's sort of like the middle of the road there as well. There are some areas that it mentions that are completely true historically, that are fairly accurate. Some of the memories of the people as they wrote things down are fairly accurate as well. There are other things that are completely false. You know there are things about my life in the first century that are completely false. It portrays me as having a mother who never had sex before I was born, not true. My mother told me she had sex before I was born; my mother and father had sex and as a result I was conceived. So there was no virgin birth for example.

**Mary:** Were they married when that ...

Yes, they were married. My father looked for a good wife and found one. And they fell in love. My father and mother at the beginning of their relationship were very much in love. They are very much in love now as well because they happen to also be soulmates. But there was a period of time in my life in the first century where they weren't very much in love at all and in fact they would admit it, that they weren't very much in love at all. That was generally because of the way they treated each other and particularly my father towards my mother at times. This was the common way that men in the first century treated their women, which was also flawed. There are so many things about my life that we can mention. Perhaps one thing we need to do is just list the different things eventually as a question and answer series and say, "Yes, no, yes, no," and just answer the questions directly as to what was true and what was not true.

**Mary:** What about just speaking in generalities about what is inaccurate in the Bible? What about issues of heaven and hell and what happens when we die?

Well, the Bible contains contradictions about heaven and hell and what happens when you die. For example in the Old Testament there are scriptures that say when you die you are dead and nothing, you are completely non-existent. This is an obvious error but it's contained within the Bible. Most people who read their Bible are not even aware that it says so, in the Book of Proverbs and Ecclesiastes for example. As a result of that most people just ignore those passages as if they've never read them. The Bible also states, particularly with my teachings, some of which are recorded in the Bible relatively accurately, that there is an afterlife where people can talk to each other and see each other. While many people interpret that as a metaphor, I also said quite clearly that it wasn't just a metaphor but that this was a possibility in the spirit world, that you could speak with other people. And you could speak with other people on Earth, and I demonstrated that through my day-to-day life by talking to people who were spirit-influenced; I spoke to the spirits through the people.

So there are many truths that are contained there if you look at it but unfortunately most people have a very fixed concept when they look at those particular things. It's almost like they are told a heap of things about the Bible before they read it, and then they are told what they can believe from the Bible when they read it, and they are told how to interpret it when they read it. If you had not been told any of those things and you read the Bible with a completely open mind and heart you would be shocked at what you have accepted as real and what is not actually real, when you read the Bible. I feel that most people would be absolutely shocked, and will be shocked in the future about what they actually accepted as real when logic and also love would dictate that such a thing was not possible.

5. What do you say are the Bible's most serious flaws?

**Mary:** What do you say are the Bible's most serious flaws?

The most serious flaws in the Bible? The single most serious flaw in the Bible is how the Bible portrays God. That is the single most serious flaw in the Bible. It portrays God as sometimes loving, sometimes not. Sometimes loving, sometimes punishing. Sometimes loving, sometimes angry. Sometimes wrathful, sometimes wise, sometimes not. Sometimes a megalomaniac, sometimes not. Sometimes narcissistic, sometimes not, and so forth. This is a very damaging view of God and in fact many times it is man's concept of God. People don't understand God's Laws very well and they don't understand God's Principles very well and as a result of that they have a tendency to feel that God is arbitrary in His dealings with people. That's not the case at all but that's what people believe. As a result of that they have a very flawed view or concept of God.

All of the Bible writers, even the writers who associated with me in the first century, had a flawed concept of God, because at times they believed God was punishing, at times believed God was not; at times they believed that God demanded worship or was narcissistic in the sense that God needed everybody to worship him. And sometimes they didn't believe that. They had so many mixed-up concepts of God. One of the things I tried to do through my first century life was correct the mixed-up concepts of God, but unfortunately the mixed-up concepts of God are mixed into the emotional condition of the person's viewpoints of their parents and so if the person is unwilling to work their way through how they see their own parents it's going to be very difficult for them to work their way through getting an accurate and truthful concept of God.

**Mary:** Okay. You say the most serious flaw in the Bible is the depiction of God. Are there any other serious flaws you can see in the Bible?

I think the second-most serious flaw in the Bible relates to my life and yours in the first century. I feel that's the second-most serious flaw in the Bible because that's the thing that all of the Christians have a tendency to focus upon and then misinterpret. Any flaws that are contained within it are grossly exaggerated and misinterpreted and turned into things that are not true. I feel that the second-most serious flaw is that it does not contain an accurate depiction or record of our life in the first century and therefore does not contain an accurate depiction of what I said. Nor does it contain an accurate depiction of what I did. Nor does it contain an accurate depiction of my life, which included you in my life, and it never contained an accurate depiction of why I died, why all of that actually occurred. There are many other things within the Bible, right from my birth to my death, that are not accurate. Many people then base their faith on my sayings, upon what the Bible says, and unfortunately they also become misled by many of those so-called things that I am meant to have said that I never said. They also mis-read most of the things that I did say and mis-apply most of the things that I said. I feel that's probably the second-most serious flaw that the Bible contains.

There are of course many others. How the Bible treats women, I feel, is a very serious flaw. Women are half of our population. They are for many of us the other half of our soul and yet we are treating them, and the Bible in fact recommends treating them, in a manner that is not equal. There are all sorts of theoretical reasons why Christians come up with that concept, and why they accept that concept. They try to say that God's trying to illustrate that the relationship of God to man is the same as to how a man should treat his woman and things like that.

**Mary:** Or yourself and the church?

Yeah. My relationship with the so-called Christian church is how a man should treat his wife, and so forth. Very flawed concepts based around interpretation again, based around what they would like to read into it in order to justify how women are being treated. Ladies, if you are Christian, you are not getting treated the way I treated women in the first century. Simple as that. As you know, I treated you in the first century in a manner that nearly every man around us disagreed with and as a result every man who wrote anything in the Bible disagreed with it as well. They often did not even record you in it as well. Now some of the men didn't record you because they tried to protect you but others, ones like Peter and so forth, didn't record you because they didn't like you. Unfortunately all of this error then gets put into a book that people then base their entire lives upon and that's very dangerous.

6. What subjects does the Bible cover that you believe are beneficial to mankind?

**Mary:** What subjects does the Bible cover that you believe are beneficial to mankind?

Well, a lot of them are subjects that I taught in the first century. If we look at the subject of being born again, having a relationship with God, that is a primary subject which I feel people need to understand far more about. Many of my quotations and illustrations in the Bible were surrounding this particular subject and unfortunately most people who interpret those particular metaphorical illustrations do not understand the metaphor. I feel that that is the primary area, the area surrounding having a relationship with God and desiring God's Love and entering into this beautiful relationship where you give and receive with God; that is to me the primary important thing that's contained within the Bible. It's the only book, the only holy book that contains such a thing and as a result of that it is a special book and unique in that regard. There are many other books written about ethical behaviour but the Bible contains this unique thing about a relationship with God.

I feel that the Bible's portrayal of ethical behaviour based on my words in the first century is also very important. This is the whole concept of, "Do unto others what you would have them do to you." A very important principle of love.

**Mary:** But in that you are clarifying it's what you taught. So, not everything that the Bible says about ethics; it's really what you taught about ethics?

Yes, although there are other things the Bible says about ethics that are very beautiful as well, in the Book of Proverbs for example, in Ecclesiastes, the Old Testament of the Bible. There are many ethical statements that are made. If a person practices them they'll do well in developing their love as a result of practising those particular ethical things.

I believe that there are a lot of ethical statements in the Bible. The problem is that there are also a lot of unethical ones and a person needs discernment to be able to choose, or work out, the difference between the two. If a person just accepts the Bible as completely God's word then they are not going to do that and they are also going to be very confused about how they engage ethics and how they engage love. They become confused because they think some things are loving that are obviously not if they look at them by themselves without the Bible's influence. And then there are other things that they believe are not loving but actually are. Unfortunately, that causes a distortion for many people who believe in the Bible.

They are two areas I feel. But the most important area is this relationship with God, the importance of prayer as I described it in the first century. Not the Lord's Prayer, because that's not what I actually described. That was said after I lived on Earth. There are certain things contained within it that I did say, but the so-called Lord's Prayer were things that were mentioned after I died are by some of the other people; even some of my disciples come up with that kind of prayer. That wasn't a prayer that I recommended to my disciples at the time but the importance of prayer was a very important factor, because prayer is the opening of the soul, the desire of the soul to receive love. I'm talking now about the love from God. I feel that prayer is a very important part of the Bible but there's a poor portrayal in the Bible of what prayer actually is.

There are many other things that the Bible contains that I feel are important to understand. There are some issues of morality that are important to understand. Of course some of them get severely distorted and then turned into laws and you get punished if you don't practice them and that is not in harmony with love at all. God very rarely, if ever, punishes a person for practising an unloving behaviour but the person does have the Law of God constantly attempting to correct them. In other words, God's Laws constantly demonstrate to the person through the person's condition that what they are engaging in is unloving.

But there is also the presumption with certain things that man has made that these are God's opinions. For example, marriage is one of those. Man's opinion is that to be moral you have to be married, and that's not God's opinion. God created a marriage between the two halves of the soul. You might marry another person on paper who's not your soulmate but at the end of the day that's not the person you're going to be with, not in the long term. While you may have a moral relationship with that person in the sense that they are the only person that you engage with sexually, in the end they are not the only person you are going to engage with sexually because if they are not your soulmate you are going to finish up leaving them at some point in the future, either on Earth or in the spirit world. And you will eventually find your soulmate at some point if you truly engage God's Truth.

So you know, there are many things in the Bible that are quoted as essential but obviously if you think about it, from God's perspective, God didn't have a piece of paper when he put the first human couple together. Love is the binding force that should bind people together.

**Mary:** So I suppose from what you're saying, the question is, "What in the Bible do you find beneficial?" You've mentioned this teaching of the possibility of becoming born again ...

At-one with God, yeah.

**Mary:** At-one with God through a relationship with God.

The possibility of God's Love transforming your soul into a new creature. I referred to this constantly in the first century. My illustrations in the Bible still contain some references to it, if a person knows how to interpret them of course. I think that's a very important part.

**Mary:** So you mentioned prayer, you mentioned ethics and you mentioned morality but honestly listening to you, it seems that you're saying that every single one of them seems flawed. There are aspects of it but it's flawed. There are aspects of it but it's not the complete truth.

Of course. For instance, when I talk about a relationship with God. If you believe you're having a relationship with a wrathful punishing God who's going to destroy the wicked then you're flawed, because there is no such God. That God doesn't exist except in man's minds. It doesn't exist anywhere else and certainly the True God that I have met and have a relationship with does not have any of those desires. So if you take everything the Bible says about God, you are not going to have a very good relationship with God. If you take everything the Bible says about me, you are not going to have a very good relationship with me. If you take everything the Bible says about people generally, you are not going to have a very good relationship with people generally. If you take everything that the Bible says about women, you are not going to have a good relationship with a woman. These are the flaws that are within the Bible.

**Mary:** I see, yeah, and it is difficult. Just honestly, I respect that there's benefit, and I personally quite enjoy reading the Bible at different times but it does seem a very difficult situation for someone who's put all of their belief system based in a book.

Oh I agree. For somebody who's put all of their belief system based on the Bible as the book of God then it certainly is a difficult situation. I agree. If somebody treats it more openly though, and I say this to everyone, "Any book that you read, if you read it with an open heart and you read it from the position of wanting to become more loving and wanting to become more truthful and wanting to become more developed inside of your soul then you'll find that there are certain things in the book that you can dismiss and there are certain things that are interesting." The same applies to the Bible. Now I feel that it applies to the Bible the most, in the sense that the Bible contains things about becoming at-one with God; not many other books on the planet contain that. There are a few other books now that do; for instance, the Padgett Messages are one of those things that have been turned into a book now that do contain the truth about becoming at-one with God. But not many people know about these books. There are not many books aside from that, not common books where people could learn about becoming at-one with God. So the Bible is a very important book to read on that basis.

There are not very many books that discuss ethics in a true open manner, although that's improving. There are more and more people interested in ethical behaviour so there are more books being written as a result. The same applies I feel to women. There are many books about the equal treatment of men and woman on the planet that you'd be better off reading than the Bible, because the Bible does not portray that subject very well at all. Like any book, it requires analysis through a condition of love.

**Mary:** Basically you're saying that there is a higher benefit because it has this teaching about ...

... becoming at-one with God. Up until a hundred years ago it was the only book that contained the principle of becoming at-one with God and so therefore it is a very important book for somebody to put on their reading list. But that being said, there are many false things contained within the book as well.

Many of the spirits who have believed in the Bible on the Earth want the Bible to either be God's word or not, so they can either throw it away or believe the whole thing. That removes the personal responsibility to be able to make a choice and decision based upon love. There's a desire to have a book that is either definitely true and "I should read it," or definitely not true and "I should never touch it," and I can't say either of those things about the Bible. I feel quite strongly that it's definitely not true; however there are a lot of things in it you should read. I feel quite strongly about that and so I can't say, "Don't read it at all," and I can't say, "Do believe everything in it," and many of the spirits who have passed over who have been Christian while they were on Earth want either one or the other answer.

You can't give one or the other answer because there are things that are contained within it that are beautiful and there are things that are contained within it that are very harsh and unloving and you need to have personal discernment to tell the difference. And the personal discernment comes from your relationship with God, not your relationship with the Bible. It comes from your desire for Truth, not from your relationship with the Bible. In the Bible it said, "The Truth will set you free," and I did actually say that. It's your relationship with Truth that sets you free, not your relationship with the Bible that sets you free. It's your relationship with Love that sets you free, not the relationship with the Bible that sets you free. So if you're truly going to analyse the Bible, you need to analyse it like you analyse any other book. You need to forget about analysing it as if it's totally God's word and you need to see it as the word of men. However it contains many of the highest possible truths you could ever imagine. It does, and for that reason it's very beneficial to read.

**Mary:** I feel that my feelings match yours on that subject but it's interesting being an interviewer. Whenever we discuss religious matters, Christian religious matters, I feel I become a medium ...

A channel.

**Mary:** A channel. Suddenly there are all these questions that come to me ...

... from Christian spirits.

**Mary:** And there's a lot of impression or pressure on me to ...

... to ask the questions.

**Mary:** To continue a line of questioning with you, which is not what's on my ...

And that's okay. I'm happy to continue with a line of questioning about some of their questions, but I feel that a lot of the time we need to understand that many of the questions are driven from this emotional dissatisfaction with the answer that's already given. Many Christian spirits who now know that the Bible does not contain all of the truths of God now want to throw the whole Bible out and I can't recommend that they do that because there are many things in the Bible that would help their lives immensely if they understood them completely. So I can't recommend that somebody does that. That's what I'm saying, I have a much more middle of the road acceptance of all books on the planet than the majority of people do because I realise that there are so many things that could be said or done, in the different books, that are beneficial to human life and beneficial to understanding your relationship with God and your relationship with others.

**Mary:** And I feel like a lot people panic about "How do I do it right? If I haven't been doing it right then how do I do it right?"

And if they do that, it is just that they are panicked about getting things right. And that is an emotion. What's that emotion about? That emotion is actually about worrying that if they get something wrong they are going to be punished. Now where did that come from? Well, it's in the Bible. There is this principle in the Bible, if you do something wrong, and there are some people in the Bible that mistakenly did things wrong and they were punished. A person reading that goes, "Whoa, I'm now quite afraid of doing something wrong." Now I'm saying to people, "You don't need to be afraid of doing anything wrong. God doesn't punish like that. God looks at everything in terms of the intention." So even concepts like fear of a punishing God impact upon a person's ability to go, "I don't have to worry about that." And why have they got a fear of a punishing God? Because they had a fear of a punishing parent. That's one of the primary reasons why they accept the existence of a non-existent punishing God, but they accept it exists because they had a punishing parent who told them, "I'm giving you a belting right now but I love you." In other words, "I'm punishing you right now. I'm causing violence towards you right now but I love you. And this is an expression of my love."

That's a distortion of love, and distortions of love in our childhood cause us to accept distortions of love in a God that we worship and we need to understand the correlation between those two things, I feel. If I believe that love allows punishment, then I will believe in a God that allows punishment. I do not accept that love allows punishment, under any circumstances. Love allows correction but not punishment; there's a big difference between correction and punishment. If I believe love allows punishments, and particularly violent punishment, then I am out of harmony myself with one of the principles of love and I will accept a God who punishes. I will accept an angry, wrathful God who punishes. Such a God does not exist. I've never met such a God and I don't have a relationship with any God like that. But I feel that many people on Earth do. They have created a God of their own imagination who really mirrors angry men on Earth, and is not higher than the average person on Earth.

7. What subjects in the Bible do you believe contain inaccuracies?

**Mary:** What subjects in the Bible do you believe contain inaccuracies?

That's a very good question because almost every subject in the Bible contains some kind of inaccuracy. I suppose it depends on how important you find the inaccuracy as to how important it is to you. As I've mentioned before, the Bible has a lot of flaws and the Bible also has a lot of truths, but there are inaccuracies in almost every subject. You can't sort of choose a subject and go, "Oh, the Bible is right on that particular subject right across the board," because it is not correct on any subject right across the board. It either contains a lack of information on a subject or it contains information that is false on the subject or it contains information that has been embellished or manipulated through the passage of time on a particular subject. You could say that about almost every subject it contains. So I suppose the best thing we can say is that we need to take a lot of care in our reading of the Bible.

I feel it is an essential book to read, myself. I feel that it's an essential book to read, though perhaps not the whole book of the Bible. Certainly the New Testament of the Bible is essential to read and if I was recommending to people what to read I'd also recommend reading the psalms, the proverbs, Ecclesiastes and many of the prophets as well for a lot of reasons. They can be very fascinating and interesting books to read if you understand how to read them. I would not necessarily recommend that everybody reads the first five books of the Bible, particularly Leviticus, Numbers and perhaps Deuteronomy which were part of the Pentateuch in our first century life, because they just contain many laws which are not really valid for modern living and they are also not valid when you consider them from a perspective of love. There are some that are and some that aren't.

So again, I feel that the Bible is a very important book to read but it's very important that you do not believe that it is the entire word of God.

8. How do you feel the Bible portrays your character?

**Mary:** There are many verses about the character of Jesus in the Bible. Do you have any general comments about how the Bible portrays your character?

Yeah, certainly. The Bible portrays my character very inconsistently I feel, on a lot of different subjects. It portrays my character inconsistently in the way that I ethically dealt with people, for example. It portrays my character very inconsistently when it comes to my dealings with women. It basically tells people that I was celibate when I was married for example. It has basically written you (Mary) out of my life in the first century and as a result of that it's very inaccurate when it comes my day-to-day life and my relationship with you and our relationship to Truth and so forth.

It contains a lot of inconsistencies about my feelings about power and control and judgement in fact. It strongly recommends that I strongly recommend to others that they do not judge, while at the same time accepting that I am the judge from God as a role, and this is very inconsistent. It also contains a lot of misinformation about power and my desire for power, which I do not have. And the Bible suggests in some places that I have no desire for power whatsoever and in other places that I have a large desire for power; perhaps we can illustrate that in other questions.

So it's very inconsistent in the way in which it portrays me at times. Then there are other areas that are quite consistent in the way that it portrays me and my life. It portrays me as having a deep desire for God and a deep relationship with God that everyone around me recognised. And that's true, that's how it was. It portrays me as having a care for other people, although not consistently portraying that. Sometimes it seems to indicate that I didn't care. So again it's inconsistent on some issues and consistent on other matters and the best thing I can do, at some point in the future we can go through a lot of our personal life in comparison with the Bible and just list what is true and what isn't true. In some ways it would be better for us to just state what is true and then a person can make their own comparison.

**Mary:** Yeah, for sure. So you're saying that it's inaccurate in terms of portraying your character as sometimes wanting power, sometimes not.

Being a judge, which I don't want and never have.

**Mary:** And being celibate.

Being celibate, yes.

**Mary:** And on the other hand it's more ...

Being a son of a virgin. You know there are many things that are false.

**Mary:** And then in terms of your character it's more accurate about your high regard and desire for your relationship with God.

Definitely.

**Mary:** What about the focus of your life or the focus of your character?

Yeah, I didn't care very much for material possessions and I still don't. I focus primarily on sharing truth with others. That's my focus. That comes out in the Bible quite strongly. So there are other parts of my character. I was quite forceful in dealing with untruth, which is very much the case now. So there are other parts to my character that it does correctly portray. Unfortunately again there's consistency in certain areas and the trouble with such a text that has modifications over thousands of years, is that eventually it becomes inconsistent and therefore cannot be assumed to be the accurate truth.

Unfortunately religion has actually also distorted what the Bible says quite a lot, so many religious people are shocked when they read their own Bible, because their own religion has different principles and practices which are not contained within the Bible. For example the Catholic Church, the foundation, if you like, of many of the other churches before the Reformation, contains this principle that men who are priests should be celibate, should not be married. But the Bible says the opposite to that in fact. If you read the Book of Timothy for example, it recommends that people who are priests should be married. The Bible recommends exactly the opposite of what some of the religious practices of our day currently are. And so you can see that many of these practices have been introduced by men's own concept and have had no reference whatsoever to the Bible in fact.

I find it quite amusing at times that many people who email us say, "You should be doing this and should be doing that." We could, if I wanted to, just email them straight back and say, "You should be doing this and you should be doing that because that's what your Bible says and you're not doing it." But the reality is that I don't believe in having that kind of a conversation with people. I feel that if people are open and honest and sincerely asking then I'd be happy to show them the inconsistencies in their own Bible and also the inconsistencies with their own religion in comparison with the Bible. For example, many times people who have been religious have gone to war and in fact many times the priests and ministers of such religions have gotten up on the pulpit and encouraged the people to go to war. Now that is completely the opposite of what I would do and completely the opposite of what Jesus in the first century, even if you don't believe I'm Jesus, the Jesus in the first century would have done. And anybody who is realistic would know that and would therefore never be able to agree with their church doing that.

Many times I see churches being very hypocritical in their statements to me because they themselves do not practice the words that are contained in the book that they believe is God's word. I feel that there are very few religions on Earth that are not hypocritical with regard to how they treat the Bible. Very few religions. Most of them are hypocritical in some manner in the way in which they treat the Bible and the way in which they follow it, particularly on the issue of war, particularly on the issue of harming other people. They are very choosy when it comes to what they follow and what they don't follow. For example, look at the American religious right I think it is, isn't it? The Christian religious right in America. They are nationalistic and violently so. They are prepared to go to war with pretty much anyone who disagrees with them and that is in direct contradiction to what the Bible and particularly my life demonstrated in the first century. This is an area where people are being very very hypocritical when it comes to their record and looking at the Bible.

### 9. What are your comments on verses about Jesus' 2nd coming?

**Mary:** There are many verses about the second coming of Jesus in the Bible, particularly in Matthew 24, Mark 13 and Luke 21. Do you have any general comments about these verses?

Certainly. There are a lot of things I could say about these particular verses. Firstly, any of the comments that I made that were later recorded in these verses were referring to the Jewish system of things that I saw, what I saw occurring in the Jewish system of things. One of the primary things that I saw in the Jewish system of things was that in the future, because of Jewish opposition to Roman oppression, eventually the Romans would come and destroy the seat of Jewish power, which was Jerusalem. They would completely annex that power at some point in the future. This is something that I felt very strongly and many of the spirits who were with me who I often spoke with also felt very strongly about it.

Of course, in almost any time that a person lives, you get this feeling that you would like to know a bit about the future. You know, "What's going to happen in the future?" One of the questions that I was frequently asked was "What's going to happen in the future? What's going to happen with the Roman world power and what effect will it have on us here in Jerusalem?" for example. The main reason most people asked that question was that they expected the messiah to be a person who would come and conquer the Roman oppressors, set up kingship on the Earth, in Jerusalem, and eventually be the king of the entire Earth. That's what they expected from the messiah and so it was a frequently asked question.

Sometimes it was asked by people in power who were concerned about their power, and other times it was asked as a sincere question by disciples who knew the prophetic references to the messiah and who misinterpreted those particular references. They would often come up to me and ask me questions like, "What's going to happen in our future? When are you going to be put into power? When are you going to become king?" and all those kinds of things. Of course I was never going to become king and never will become king, in my opinion. I don't know what God's got planned for me but that's how I feel, and the reality is that many of them wanted me to become a king of sorts so that they could feel like they had been freed from Roman oppression.

But there were also sincere people wanting to know about the future and what would happen in the future. One of the things that I taught very frequently was that if you opposed something, if you spent a lot of your energy and effort in violent opposition, eventually opposition would come back to you; there would be violent opposition in return. This is a principle that I was constantly trying to help people understand, the principle that if you love people eventually love would return. If you hate people or treat people violently, eventually violence would return. These were basic principles about how God has created the Universe. And so when they asked me questions about what the future of the Jewish system of things is, I could give them quite direct answers about what I believed the future of the Jewish system of things would be, based on what I perceived as the general attitude of the Jewish people towards Roman oppression. And so I foretold many things about Roman oppression and the Jewish system of things and what would happen.

**Mary:** Could you put that in context of the verses that we're referring to?

Sure.

**Mary:** You're actually saying that those verses weren't referring to your return to Earth. They were just speaking about the fall of the Jewish system?

Well, one thing that you must understand is that by this stage I had talked about my potential death with my disciples and my wife, yourself, and my disciples all knew that I would potentially die at some time in the near future. Many of them also felt that I would be able to come back because they could see that I wasn't a king yet and many of the things that they believed would happen to the messiah hadn't happened yet. What they believed was very different to what I believed. What I believed was that I probably wouldn't come back onto the planet in a very short period of time, if at all. I believed that there was no need to come back on the planet because I had a good understanding of the spirit world and a good understanding of what I needed to do in the spirit world to establish God's Kingdom, if you like, in the Celestial realms. I knew there was a lot of work to be done in the spirit world, so I didn't have a strong feeling about coming back to Earth straight away or anything like that.

**Mary:** Could I just clarify, because I know you're going to go on. What about the resurrection? Are you speaking about coming back to Earth permanently or ...

Yeah. I knew that I would come back to Earth temporarily after my death to prove to people that there was no such thing as death. I already knew that that would occur because it was my strong desire. I also knew from the feelings I had between myself and God that there was a high likelihood of it being able to be done. I understood the Laws of Physics and the Laws of Nature that were involved in my doing such a thing and so I knew that I'd be able to do that at some point after my death. I knew that instantly after my death I'd be able to prove to people that I'm still alive. I'm not referring to that here. I'm referring to my return at some future time and at that point I didn't have any strong feeling about returning to the Earth at some future time. I believed that there was a lot of work to be performed in the spirit world; I believed that there were a lot of things that needed to occur in the spirit world in terms of things that I needed to learn myself but also things that I needed to share with others in order for life in the spirit world to improve, because I realised that life in the spirit world was in many cases even worse than life on Earth for many people. So I knew that I would be spending a lot of my time talking to people in the spirit world after my death. For that reason I didn't have a very strong feeling about returning to the Earth. I felt that perhaps at one point in the future there might be the potentiality of me doing such a thing but I didn't predict such a thing at all, ever. I never predicted any of those events.

**Mary:** Well that's a big thing to say because there's a lot of Bible ...

... verses that say I did.

**Mary:** Yes.

Yes. But I did predict the fall of Roman world power. I did predict the fall of Jerusalem before the fall of Roman world power. I did predict the distortion of truth that would occur over time, the distortion of my true teachings over time. I predicted the establishment of organisations that would eventually suppress true Christianity. I predicted the suppression of Christianity and the persecution of Christians shortly after my time. I predicted all those events and told my disciples that all of these events would definitely occur. There were many things I did predict and there were some things that I did not. A person who is at-one with God can predict many things and also does not feel very concerned about death and so does not feel a huge amount of concern about the predictions they are making either.

Now Matthew 24, Mark 13, Luke 21 are all chapters that are contained in the Bible about what's meant to be my second coming. The assumption is that it's about my second coming. Most Christian religions believe that it talks about the prediction of events after my death, but they feel that it has a greater fulfilment in the prediction of the second coming. These kinds of things arose because many of the disciples that I had at the time believed that I would come again and desperately wanted me to. This is very plain to see in the writings of Paul, for example, where he expected me to come during his own lifetime. After I died, many of the disciples expected me to return to them during their lifetime because they knew I was still alive.

Because I had appeared to them, they knew I was still alive and many of them became very confused about why I did not reappear to them during their lifetime, not understanding that there were a large number of jobs in the spirit world, which were very important, that I now wanted to engage. Many of them were more important in fact than what could occur on earth and the reason was that many of the people in the spirit world were influencing the events on Earth and therefore the people in the spirit world needed to change. We needed to have what I would classify as an 'army,' you could call it; it's not an army about violence, but it's an army of people who all understand the Truth in the spirit world.

At the time of my death there were very few people in the spirit world who understood the truth and as a result there were very few people at-one with God at the time of my death. I knew that this needed to change in order for everything else to change and so that became my primary focus. My primary focus was improving the spirit world conditions so that more people could become at-one with God. Once more people became at-one with God, eventually they would get to a point where there would be masses of people at-one with God in the spirit world and I knew that they would have a beautiful positive effect on events that could occur on the Earth, both on the Earth and in the spirit world, in the darker realms of the spirit world.

**Mary:** So you're really saying your focus was actually on the spirit world after you passed and you had no intention at that time of returning?

No. The only time that I spent on Earth after my passing was time that I spent with you and my family and with different people that I loved who I wanted to guide and assist into having the proper viewpoint of a relationship with God, relationship with themselves and their own happiness and I did guide, to a large degree, the different things that did happen with the Christian faith. Whenever I noticed people attacking the Christian faith, I spent time trying to reverse those particular events.

This is one of the reasons I tried to influence Paul when he was Saul. Paul was not named Paul initially; he was named Saul. He was a Pharisee who spent a lot of time attacking Christians, around Jerusalem in particular, and I realised that if he used his zeal in a different direction then that would be wonderful. If he continued to use his zeal attacking Christians there weren't going to be many Christians left at the end of his zeal. This is why I appeared to him in a vision-like state and educated him about the Divine Truth and helped him to change.

There are many things like that that I did after my death. But we could get back to the actual question, which is about those three primary chapters talking about future events. I did not predict any future events based on my return. It was only after my death that disciples, people who wanted me to return, came up with what they believed were indications that I would return. Ironically some of them are correct now. Some of them were prophetic in nature and some of them are correct. Some of the things that they had said about my second coming are going to be true. But they had received that direction from spirits and through their own inclination to believe such a thing.

**Mary:** Right. Because there is a lot of irony in what you're saying.

Yes.

**Mary:** Ironically you are saying you thought it might be possible that you could return but you were not trying to prophesy your own return in the statements that are recorded in the Bible.

Exactly.

**Mary:** So there was no intention, yet a whole group of people, a very massive group of people, have been awaiting your return based on writings that were recorded after your death.

And almost all of the disciples after my death were awaiting my immediate return.

**Mary:** And people are still waiting today, so that's ironic.

Yes, it is ironic.

**Mary:** Then we add to that the fact that you did discover, well we did discover, that we could return and have returned and now all those people waiting do not see you.

Exactly. That's ironic too, isn't it?

**Mary:** It's all ironic.

Yes, and because my return is not in the manner in which the first century disciples conceived it to be, people then don't believe that I've returned. Isn't that ironic?

**Mary:** Very. And you know, it would be a lot simpler if you just said ...

Said what?

**Mary:** That you were going to return. I know you can't say it because it's not true.

It's not true.

**Mary:** But it feels highly ...

I imagined that it was possible but I didn't see it as a likelihood in my near future. I know the disciples when I passed had a desire for it to occur in their time because in a lot of ways many of them were unwilling to live without me, which was one of the problems. One of the problems, as you know, was that many of the disciples were unwilling to engage the Divine Truth without me doing it with them. And this is one thing they had to learn. They finished up learning that quite rapidly after my death once they worked through a lot of their grief, and I returned to them and they had the proof and evidence that what I was saying to them was true. Then of course they had a lot of deep motivation to present truth to people in the world. They started to personally live it a lot more than they had been before then. Before then they were often just talking about it and not living it. As a result many of the people grew hugely in their relationship with God and their relationship with truth during that time period. Of course God's Spirit through this Love flowed through them, helping them to come to terms with the concepts of truth that I taught them while I was alive that they didn't really understand at the time.

**Mary:** If we can be really clear then, what Matthew, Mark and Luke wrote, did you make those statements because ...?

Well, I made some of them. Other parts have been embellished by my own disciples and by others since, into something that is definitely not true.

**Mary:** But you are saying that some of those embellishments were inspired and so are accurate and some are not.

Exactly.

**Mary:** So again we're in this hodge podge; a little bit of some things you said, some things you didn't. Some things were inspired correctly and some things were just ...

Once you understand human nature and you understand how the spirit world works with the material world and so forth you can understand how all of those things can occur. To me it was not surprising that such a thing would occur but I understand to a lot of Christians it might be surprising to hear what I'm saying.

**Mary:** Perhaps a little stressful.

Well, a little stressful only because they believe the Bible to be wholly God's word and therefore, they are unwilling to do critical analysis based on love and truth and consistency. Maybe I could give some illustrations about the consistency.

In the Bible it states and portrays me in my second coming as coming as a ruler, coming as a world-domineering ruler who subjugates the nations and places them as a stool for my feet. In other words all of the nations are going to be ruled by myself. That's what it says. It's completely inaccurate and false of course but that's what it says. But in other areas it says almost the complete opposite. I can illustrate these particular things. If you read Matthew 24 for example, in verses 29 through to 31 it says, "Immediately after the distress of those days the sun will be darkened and the moon will not give its light, the stars will fall from the sky and the heavenly bodies will all be shaken. At that time the sign of the Son of Man will appear in the sky and all the nations of the Earth will mourn." Then it says, "They will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of the sky with power and great glory and he will send his angels with a loud trumpet call and they will gather his elect from the four winds, from one end of the heavens to the other."

Right, that's what it says. Now anybody who knows me would never believe that. Anybody who knew me in the first century would never believe that. This is a verse added after my first century life and it's a verse added for a lot of different reasons, some to control people, some to inspire people, some to make people feel that they were just waiting for the second coming, constantly waiting, similar to how the Jews were constantly waiting for the messiah and are still waiting, even though the messiah came 2,000 years ago. It's very similar in nature to that.

But also I would say that it's not my nature to do such a thing. Because what this and many other verses portray is that I would come in this demonstration of great power and glory and I would take the elect from the Earth, in other words the people on Earth who supposedly know the truth and believe in me, and then all the others I will destroy. That's what it's basically stating and the Book of Revelations states it quite clearly.

Now if you look at other verses: For example if we go back to Matthew 4 and we go to verse 8 it says, "The devil took him to a very high mountain and showed him all the kingdoms of the world and their splendour and said, 'All of this I will give you if you bow down and worship me.'" Well, if a person really thought about that verse ... apparently the verse says I said to him, "Away from me Satan, for it is written, 'Worship the Lord your God and serve Him only.'" In other words I rejected the offer of world rulership and, in a way, Satan in this verse was just offering me the same thing God was. So why would I reject it? It makes no sense. If Satan is offering me, "Bow down to me and I'll give you this," and God's offering me, "Bow down to me and I'll give you this," then surely both of them are offering the same thing. It makes no real logical sense. But if we look at it analytically we could see that I rejected the offer of rulership. Now people say, "Oh, that's because it was offered by Satan."

Okay, let's go over a few more verses shall we? Maybe to John 6: 14-15 where it says, "After the people saw the miraculous sign that Jesus did they began to say, 'Surely this is the prophet who is to come into the world.' Jesus, knowing that they intended to come and make him king by force withdrew again to a mountain by himself." So I again rejected the offer of rulership. From people this time, not from Satan. And I also rejected the offer of rulership by force. In other words, I did not want to force rulership on anybody. Now what's the difference between God offering me rulership by force and people offering me rulership by force? Well I put to you, nothing. God would never offer me rulership by force and if God did I would never accept rulership by force.

Now this is an inconsistency. In one verse in Matthew 24, it's saying that I have accepted rulership by force. In another verse in John 6 it's saying that I do not accept rulership by force. What's my character? Obviously in the Bible's definition my character changes depending on who offers me something. And that's not the case at all. If God offered me rulership by force I would reject it. And I know that God would never offer me such a thing because God himself takes no rulership by force so he would never offer me such a thing. That's why I rejected it in every case. But the Bible is stating that God has offered me rulership by force and that I have accepted it and both things are false. God cannot offer me rulership by force because God does not personally take rulership by force and I would never accept rulership by force because I am at-one with or want to be at-one with God and therefore could never be at-one with God if I took rulership by force.

So this is proof; in my mind it's definite proof. If I was listening to that discussion logically I would see, "Wow, there's some inconsistencies there." It is also proof that I would never have predicted my own coming in the manner in which Matthew 24 describes in that verse. So the fact is that somebody else predicted it this way, not me. There were many predictions about the messiah in the first century that I rejected because that's not what I wanted to be and it's also what I knew God didn't want me to be.

Maybe I could state my real feelings about this one issue, which are that I would never accept rulership by force. I would never accept that God would offer me rulership by force. I would never come onto the Earth and do what the Bible says I would do in Matthew 24, Mark 13, Luke 21. I will never come and destroy the wicked for God or anybody else because I know God would never do it Himself and I would never take the elect, those who think they are the elect, when most of them are not what I would classify to be loving people. In fact I state that quite categorically in other verses that are recorded in the Bible. To me this is another way that people misinterpret the Bible.

Now let's look at another example. Let's look at the issue of judgement. The Bible says, if I look at ... maybe we need to have a pause so I can get all of the Bible verses that I want together, and then we'll go through the issue of judgement. Let's do that.

**Mary:** Okay

Let's look at the issue of judgement and what the Bible says about me being a judge. If you look at John 5, verse 26-30; these are the verses I'll read. It says, "For as the father has life in himself, so he has granted the son to have life in himself and he has given him authority to judge because he is the son of man. Do not be amazed at this for a time is coming when all who are in the graves will hear his voice" - the son of man's voice it's referring to - "and come out. Those who have done good will rise to live and those who have done evil will rise to be condemned. By myself I can do nothing. I judge only as I hear and my judgement is just, for I seek not to please myself but him who sent me." That's saying categorically that I was saying that I was a judge. That's what it's saying.

Now let's compare that with some other verses. This is meant to be the same person as well. So here now we have another verse. This verse is in Matthew 7:1-5. It says, "Do not judge or you too will be judged. For in the same way as you judge others you will be judged and with the measure you use it will be measured to you." Now I'm telling other people not to judge and yet I'm willing to accept judgement. I would call that hypocrisy. But obviously Christians don't call that hypocrisy. They say that for some reason I've been given the judgement.

But let's have a look at some other verses. There's another one in Luke 12: 13-14; it says "Someone in a crowd said to him, 'Teacher, tell my brother to divide the inheritance with me.' Jesus replied, 'Man, who appointed me a judge or arbiter between you?'" There I'm saying quite categorically I'm not a judge. I'm not a judge between people.

Okay, if we look at John 3:16-17 which is a very popular verse that most Christians have read throughout their life, it says, "For God so loved the world that He gave His one and only son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life." And then it says, "For God did not send His son into the world to condemn the world but to save the world through him." In other words, God didn't send me to condemn the world so therefore I'm not a judge under this circumstance, and people go, "Well, that's a bit of a strong interpretation." Well, let's have a look at a few other verses that are quite categorical on the matter. If you look at John 12:47-48, this is what it says. "For the person who hears my words but does not keep them, I do not judge him; for I did not come to judge the world but to save it. There is a judge for the one who rejects me and does not accept my words; the very words I have spoken will condemn him on the last day." And here I'm referring to the judge being my Father. So here categorically I'm saying that I'm not the judge.

So which is it? I'm either a judge or I'm not a judge and there quite clearly I'm being contradictory. On the one hand I'm saying that other people should not judge but I'm allowed to. On the other hand I'm saying I'm not the judge but God is. And then I'm also saying, "No, God's given me the judgement." Now these are all very contradictory statements. Now I'm not a contradictory person. I don't make contradictory statements. I'm either a judge or I'm not. I either believe I am or I believe I am not. Well I believe I'm not. I definitely have not come to judge the world. I'm not going to judge anybody. I don't have the power to judge anybody. I have never been given the power to judge anybody. I am a son of God just as every other person is a child of God and God's Laws apply to me just as much as they apply to any other person. Therefore there is no need for me to judge and I cannot ever become a judge.

This is again where I feel the predictions about my coming are false. There's this whole idea and concept in the second coming of Christ that I will come as a judge and executioner of the wicked. This is completely false. It's not something that I wish to do and it's certainly not something that God wishes me to do. But it is what most people want me to do. Most people who practice, or believe they practice, truth want somebody to come along and get rid of all the bad people for them. That's what they want. It's a very dark emotion actually. They don't want to have to go and kill the bad person themselves, they want somebody else to come along and do it for them. And that would never occur. God's never going to do that for you. God's created the Universe perfectly. Everything is working perfectly and things happen the way they do because of people's choices that are out of harmony with love. I know that. I've known that for 2,000 years. I'm never going to return in a manner that is predicted in those verses of the Bible.

In future questions we'll go through the specific verses of the Bible and talk about them. But if people can see from the two illustrations that I've given about these verses that firstly they are contradictory in what they are saying, not necessarily within themselves but towards my own nature and towards God's Nature. God is not like that and I am not like that. Because I want to become at-one with God and have been at-one with God for many years in the past, I am not like that and I'm never going to become like that; I'm never going to do those things. If they don't believe I'm Jesus, their Jesus is never going to do them either and you can see that from the Bible quite clearly. Their Jesus is never going to take the actions that they say their Jesus will take because their Jesus is at-one with God and God never takes those actions and their Jesus is a pacifist, a person who is always focused on love, truth, peace and those kinds of qualities. He would never take something by force and he never did. And if they don't believe I'm Jesus they at least need to see that their Jesus would never take the actions that the Bible often says he should or would take.

### 10. John 5:26-30 Do you see yourself as the judge of humankind?

**Mary:** The Bible says that Jesus will be our judge. For example, in John 5, verses 26-30 it says "For as the Father has life in himself, so he has granted the Son also to have life in himself. And he has given him authority to judge because he is the Son of Man. Do not be amazed at this, for a time is coming when all who are in their graves will hear his voice and come out. Those who have done what is good will rise to live, and those who have done what is evil will rise to be condemned. By myself I can do nothing. I judge only as I hear and my judgement is just, for I seek not to please myself but Him who sent me." Do you see yourself as the judge of mankind?

No, definitely not. I am definitely not the judge of mankind. This Bible verse is false, completely false and was added after my death. I never stated it. It was something that was added because it was what people, including many of my disciples, wanted me to be. Quite frequently during my life on Earth many of my disciples wanted to force me into actions that I did not wish to take, and then after my passing they wanted to write about actions that I supposedly would take sometime in the future, that I did not wish to take.

It is also very inconsistent with my character, because this particular verse states that I have accepted the role of judgement from God. However if you look at other Bible verses it is quite clear that I have not accepted such a role and in fact in other Bible verses that we can examine I've said to people that they should not judge themselves and that I do not have the right to judge either. In fact, perhaps I could just mention a few of them. For example, the right to judge themselves: I've said in Matthew 7, verse 1 and 2, "Do not judge, or you too will be judged. For in the same way as you judge others you will be judged. And with the measure you use it will be measured to you."

So I've said to people, "Don't judge." It would be very hypocritical for me as a leader to judge people when I'm saying to any followers to not judge people. That would be the pinnacle of hypocrisy. And hypocritical actions are not what I take. In Luke 12 it says that somebody in a crowd said to him, "Teacher, tell my brother to divide his inheritance with me," and Jesus replied, "Man, who appointed me a judge?" In other words I'm saying to him, "I'm not your judge. I'm not the person who is going to judge these matters." And in John 3:17 it says, "For God did not send the son into the world to condemn the world." I didn't come to condemn the world, never have, never will. Like, this is the thing. I came to present to the world the principles of what can save your soul or what can actually transform you into a new being in fact. What the process of being born again is all about. That's why I came.

And then in John 12:47-48 I say to people, "But as for the person who hears my words but does not keep them, I do not judge him." And I don't. That's how I feel. If you listen to my words and you don't want to do it, that's fine. I've got no problems with you. I know that the way the universe works is that anybody who listens to these words and actually does something about them will benefit immensely from their actions. Anybody who listens to these words and does nothing about them will eventually benefit, but not immensely, not to the great ability that we have if we connect to God. We can still benefit, we can still grow, we can still change, we can still have a happy life. But it's not going to be anywhere near as happy as what is possible when you are in a condition of at-onement with God.

And then I say, "There is a judge for the one who rejects me." And it's not me. It's God. God's Laws judge people. God's Laws are judging people every single day. Every single day anything that you do out of harmony with Love is automatically judged and the soul has automatically written in it the compensation, if you like, the effect of breaking that particular law. So, every time I break a particular Law of God, the effect of the breaking the Law is in my soul immediately. And in that way I am judged. It's not something that happens at some kind of death or when I die, or once I'm resurrected or any of those kinds of things that the Bible suggests. Now I know that and I knew that in the first century. So I would never say words to the contrary.

**Mary:** So what you're saying is ... because the Bible often depicts you as a future judge doesn't it, that you will come back to judge. There's a large belief in this, or a depiction that there is a future day of judgement; when we pass or when you come back that's when judgement will happen. But from what you're saying, it's already happening.

It's already happening, every single moment. It's happening. We're basically being judged every single moment of our lives because every single action we take, the way God's created the universe is that the compensatory effect of every single action we take is automatically written on our souls. We can't avoid it. We are not going to ever avoid it and there are only two ways to process it. One is through what's called the Law of Compensation, which is a slow, laborious way of working through every single thing that you've done wrong. Or the Law of Repentance, which is a very fast, rapid way of self-analysis, seeing everything that you've personally done wrong and wanting to be forgiven for what you've done wrong. They are the two different ways that I taught in the first century, that I've taught the last two thousand years.

I have also taught people right from the time when I was in the first century, as you (Mary) know, the principles of free will, the principles of the ability to make a choice, the principles that the choices we make will have a bearing on our future life, both on Earth and in the spirit world. These principles do not require any judgement on my part. They do not require anything. God is so perfect and God is so clever that God does not need some archaic arbitrary judgement system in order to enforce God's Laws in order to have control of the universe. People need to give up these flawed human concepts of God and receive some of God's Love so they can understand the true concepts about God, which are far greater than anything the majority of people can imagine at this point in time on Earth.

So I feel again that this verse in John 5:26-30 is just another one of these verses that were added. They were added as a combination of the concept my disciples wanted to believe, and future modifications made to the Bible after my death.

Remember that the New Testament was not written at the time of my death. These were all the things written after my death, where people were relating about something and saying things about something and so forth, that were not my words but which they put into my mouth and unfortunately nowadays many people erroneously believe. If a person analyses my true character and nature they would never believe such words. Unfortunately most people are so disconnected from my true character and nature because they are disconnected from God's true character and nature, and they believe such things readily.

One of the reasons they believe such things readily is that this is how they are taught from the time they are born on Earth, that their parents are their judges. Their parent is the person who is going to come along and condemn them or say that they are good people depending on what they do. This is a human concept of love, which is very flawed from God's perspective. But it's imposed upon God and myself and neither of us have anything to do with it. These are flawed human concepts that need to be given up and they are parts of the Bible that really need to be almost completely discounted, because they do not contain any love in them; also they do not contain any justice in them and they are also hypocritical. I'm actually advising people to do things that I'm not prepared to do myself. Now what God would institute a system that one of his sons can get away with murder? Because that's what they're saying I'm going to do. If I'm going to kill the wicked then I'm a murderer. And these people who are Christian are saying that one son, Jesus, is allowed to get away with murder.

**Mary:** Well, I suppose they view you as God do they?

I understand that. So they are basically saying that God's allowed to get away with murder. And this is why many of them believe they are allowed to get away with murder and that's why many of them go to war. But it's all false. It's all out of harmony with the truth about God. It's all out of harmony with the truth about love. When they pass over into the spirit world as a murderer they'll soon find that out. They'll realise that all of this self-justification of war, all of this justification about being able to kill somebody else for God's sake, it's all false. It's all in error and it's all out of harmony with love and also every time they do it there's a penalty on their soul for doing it. There's a consequence on their soul for their actions that are taken out of harmony with love. If they knew that they'd never believe a lot of these things. Unfortunately it has sometimes been better for people to not believe them than believe them, because to believe something that is false is a more difficult proposition than not believing anything at all. If you believe something that's false, you've got to give up the false thing to accept the truth. If you don't believe anything at all, there's nothing to give up in order to accept the truth.

### 11. Matt 24:29-31 Why haven't you made things right here on earth?

**Mary:** The Bible says in Matthew 24, verses 29-31 that Jesus in the second coming would come and destroy the wicked. I quote from those verses, "Then will appear the sign of the Son of Man in heaven and then all the peoples of the Earth will mourn when they see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven, with power and great glory. And he will send his angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather his elect from the four winds, from one end of the heavens to the other." What's your response to this verse? Why haven't you returned in the clouds as the Bible verse states? If you were, or are Jesus, why haven't you already made things right here on earth?

Yeah, these are very common questions that were asked by Christians and obviously the verses in Matthew 24, Luke 21 and Mark 13 are regularly quoted to us about the reason why I cannot be Jesus. We have already covered in many other questions what's actually happened with these particular verses. But let's look at this scripture. First, it doesn't really say anything about making things right on earth. If you read it properly, it actually says that the people on earth would mourn, so that doesn't sound like things are going to be right for them. There's this presumption in many religious groups of people that if Jesus came to the earth he'd make things right for them. But the reality is that in all or many of the predictions about Jesus coming, which I'm not saying are true, but the Bible portrays as me coming and hurting people and in fact murdering people; killing people is what the Bible is stating. And many of the people who want this to happen are Christians.

The reason why they want this to happen is that they want people who are not practising what they believe is true to be killed so that they can get on with practising what they believe is true. That's not how God works and it's certainly not how I work or ever have worked. If you look at my attitude towards unbelievers in the first century it was a lot more tolerant than that, and I would certainly never perpetrate any violence towards a person who decides to not believe me; a person has the complete free will choice to not believe anything I say. I'm perfectly tolerant of that. So that's the first thing I probably would like to say about this particular verse. When people quote it to me they forget my nature and character and they also forget that God has no desire to harm the wicked. God has a desire to correct the wicked. God has a desire to see the wicked turn into good people.

The reason why I spent most of my time not with the self-righteous in the first century, which I feel many Christians have become, but rather with the people who saw themselves as sinners, is that they were more open to receiving truth. They were more open to receiving the truth about themselves and they were more open to receiving a relationship with God than the people who were self-righteously determining that they were better than everyone else. The Pharisees were people who determined that they were better than everyone else and as a result of that they were not very open to truth and they were certainly not very humble. They had complete inability for self-examination. Now I don't have a Christian's perspective about God. I don't have a Christian's perspective about Love. I don't have a Christian's perspective about Truth, because the Christians' perspectives about God, Love and Truth have all been based around the Bible and, as I've mentioned in other questions, they are flawed. They are flawed perspectives. I don't have that perspective of assuming power, of becoming a judge, of destroying the wicked, of fixing up the earth, because I already know that God is my ruler. God is my ruler. God is my king. I only wish to do that which God's Love would instruct me to do and it would certainly never instruct me to destroy the wicked.

**Mary:** Well, what about in this verse? As you said, it doesn't really say that you are going to destroy the wicked. It just says you're going to gather up an elect people. You might leave the wicked alone and just gather all these people up off to somewhere in the clouds with you.

Well it says that I will gather them to the clouds but the reality is that the whole reason why I am here is to help gather people who wish to become more loving and truthful and that is certainly a truth. If you look at it metaphorically you could certainly say that this verse is true, that when I come I will come with my friends, which my angels are, which the angels in the heavens are. The angels are just people who used to live on earth who are now at-one with God who are my mates in the spirit world and I have definitely come with them. There are plenty of them on the planet at the moment helping me out and I've come to share the truth with others and to gather the people who are willing to listen to it.

And that is exactly true; that is exactly what I've done. The irony is that if you looked at it more metaphorically, there is a lot of potential truth in this verse but that's not how a Christian sees it. Christians see it not metaphorically but they see it literally. They see it as me coming on the cloud. Now if I sat on the cloud I would only be seen by people around about fifty miles, about 70km, at the most from the cloud. I'm not going to be seen by everyone on earth. In fact, given that the earth is a circle, it's a physical impossibility for somebody to be seen in every location on the earth at the same time. It's a physical impossibility. Even to believe in the verse as a literal statement is illogical and it's also a physical impossibility.

**Mary:** What about a Christian who doesn't believe in a very, very literal sense but has the sense that on your return it will be known globally and there will be a sense of great power and glory returning to the earth in the sense of love being very powerful and glorious? What would you say to that Christian?

Well, I would say to that Christian that they are interpreting things very well. Like, from the Bible, that is exactly what I hope to achieve. It's not going to be achieved instantly as the verse tends to suggest because to change people's hearts takes time. It's not something that can happen overnight. I'm not going to come and just manipulate people's hearts somehow to acceptance. I am going to present Truth because it's the Truth that sets people free and there will be lots of people eventually who want to listen to this truth. I've only just begun. I've barely begun, in fact, because I am not yet at-one with God and firstly it takes me becoming at-one with God for me to begin the rest of the work. So the reality is that I've barely begun the work of my return. I began that work around eight or nine years ago, and I'm continuing the work now. Eventually, once I become at-one with God, I'll begin the actual work of distributing the Truth in a manner in which I wish to; there may be many people who listen as a result and in fact the entire world will know eventually. That's my hope.

**Mary:** So this is my question I suppose. When you achieve the state of at-onement with God, obviously that does mean that you will be reflecting a lot of love.

Exactly.

**Mary:** And it wouldn't be a case of manipulating people's hearts. Would you say that it would just affect people's hearts and it would be known globally?

Of course; people already find when in my company, even though I'm not at-one with God, just my stating of the truth causes them to cry and to have emotional experiences that they've never had before, just being in my presence now. So once I become at-one with God what will happen? Things will certainly happen. The people who are now resistive to truth feel very angry in my company, instantly. A lot of times I don't even know why. Instantly angry, just as people were in the first century and I'm not even yet at-one with God, so what do you think is going to happen when I am? These kinds of things will certainly happen.

**Mary:** My question then is really about this verse. Could we say then that the second coming is really not you? The second coming they're anticipating, say in this verse, of great power and glory and knowledge of a presence of this love that is powerful and glorious, that will occur once you achieve at-onement with God once again here on earth? That will be the second coming that some of them are waiting for?

Yes, but I'm not going to come on a cloud and I'm not going to gather the elect to a cloud, and it's a physical impossibility for me to be seen by everyone on earth at the same time unless I turn into some kind of spiritual being with multiple bodies which I don't expect will occur, although it is possible because I am capable of producing multiple spirit bodies at the same time. These are all things that can be done but I don't really have strong desire to do so. I don't really see myself doing them.

**Mary:** I suppose what you're also saying very clearly is that this idea of gathering an elect implies some sort of judgement and that is not your nature nor God's.

Not at all. All I wish to do is gather the people who want to have a relationship with God and help them have a relationship with God. The people who don't want to have a relationship with God, I'm perfectly fine with that. You are allowed to not have a relationship with God. That's how God feels and that's how I feel. God created a system in which you are allowed to not have a relationship with God. God's not going to punish you for not having a relationship with God. God doesn't give you freedom only to take it away, only to punish you for the wrong choice.

God gives you freedom to choose, but when I say freedom, God gives you freedom based around love. As long as you choose love, you have complete freedom. If you choose love and decide that you're not going to love God, you've still got a lot of freedom from God's perspective. You are completely free to do that. You are just never going to become at-one with God and so are never going to have the benefits of such a relationship, that's all.

When I say 'that's all,' for me that's quite a lot. It's something I would definitely not want to do but for a person who doesn't believe it's very important, well they are probably not going to believe it's as important as I do. The key for them to bear in mind is that God gives this freedom and God doesn't take it away arbitrarily. God has given the freedom for people to make a choice but God has not given us a choice about love.

When I say that God has not given us a choice about love, God has allowed us the free will to choose to be unloving but God has created a universe that corrects unloving behaviour. In that regard we are corrected if we choose to be unloving. I know that, and I've known that for 2,000 years and that's why I would never do some of the things that the Bible has suggested I would do.

I also feel it's probably important to address some of the issues. In this particular verse, it raises a lot of issues or contradictions, in my opinion, of my nature. For example, it's basically saying that I'm coming to judge people and that I'm going to pull out the people who I believe are good and I'm going to either ... there are other verses that suggest I'll get rid of them, or burn with fire the people I believe are bad. In fact there's a verse in Matthew 24 that suggests such a thing. But then again, if you look at, say, Matthew 18 and you look at verses like this where in 21 and 22 I said. "Then Peter came to Jesus and asked, 'Lord, how many times shall I forgive my brother when he sins against me? Up to seven times?' Jesus answered, I tell you not seven times but up to seventy seven times." And some verses say seventy seven times seven.

So my attitude to people who sinned against me was to forgive them. How could I ever contemplate killing them if my attitude was to forgive them? I could never contemplate killing them if my attitude was to forgive them. So any person who believes that I'm going to return and kill the wicked has a flawed concept of my own nature and the nature of God. If we look at, perhaps, Revelation 19 verse 15, here's a second contradiction in the opposite direction. It says, "The armies of heaven were following him riding on white horses and dressed in fine linen, white and clean. Out of his mouth comes a sharp sword with which to strike down the nations. He will rule them with an iron sceptre. He treads the winepress of the fury of the wrath of God Almighty."

Very dark verse. This verse was penned by a man who was not the apostle John. It was a modification to the Book of Revelation penned by a man who was violent in his nature, who had some very violent spirits with him, and he was basically saying that God has rage in him and that I would come and express God's rage to humanity. What a load of crap, to be frank. Like, why would I ever ever contemplate expressing God's rage? God doesn't have rage, for a start. God is never wrathful with humanity. God is never unkind to anyone. God is always forgiving. God knows that God's Laws will eventually correct every wrong, so God doesn't have a need to punish people or destroy people. So this verse is completely false and written by people who were also under heavy influence of very dark spirits, but incorporated into the Bible because he was a copyist of the Bible at the time. And if we look at another, so there's one that's, you know ...

**Mary:** So in one verse it's saying that you're preaching forgiveness and the other that you will actually have a murderous intent and that you would be an instrument of that.

Yeah. How opposed can you be to each other? And there's another one, I think it was in Matthew 5. Here's another verse. This is contrary again. It says, "You have heard that it was said, "Love your neighbour and hate your enemy. But I tell you ..." - this is me speaking according to this scripture - "love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you that you may be sons of your Father in heaven. He causes the sun to rise on the evil and the good and sends rains upon the righteous and the unrighteous. If you love those who love you, what reward will you get? Do not even the tax collectors do that? And if you greet only your brothers, what are you doing more than others? Do not even pagans do that? Be perfect therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect."

What was I suggesting there? God is never going to take actions of violence towards people that he's created. He's never going to do it. He only takes corrective action towards people, and I'm saying here that you must love your enemies so much that you're willing to put up with the negative things they do towards you. If I'm recommending that to people and yet I don't practice it myself, I'm a hypocrite. And if I'm recommending that God says to do that and God doesn't actually do it then God's a hypocrite. So the reality is that if God destroys the wicked, God's a hypocrite, because God's asking me, or other people, to not do it but God will do it Herself or Himself. Now I'm suggesting to you that God is never a hypocrite. God will never destroy the wicked. God created them. God is going to correct the wicked. They are going to be corrected. It may take a long time but they'll be corrected. And that's a guarantee because all of God's Laws of the Universe are designed to correct.

**Mary:** So when you say that it could take some time, it's not going to happen on a day of judgement. It's not going to be fiery damnation all in a moment. Basically what you are saying is that there are laws in place and they're always at work and they'll continue to work.

They will continue to work forever. God never changes the laws that God puts in place. They have always existed and they will always continue to exist. God is perfect. God knows what laws to make. God knows the capacity of man. God created the capacity of man so He knows it. He knows that the capacity of man is to be very evil because God created the potential of man making choices that make them evil. But God didn't tell them to become evil. God wants them to make good choices.

**Mary:** So then for Christian people watching who perhaps have a feeling that, and I hope I'm doing their questions justice, but if they have a feeling that the purpose of your second coming is to bring this judgement and you're now saying definitively that that is not the case, what is the purpose of your second coming then?

There are multiple purposes of the second coming. One of them is to illustrate further truths to the planet than I illustrated in the first century. These include truths about the soul union state, the unified soulmate state, that were not available in the first century. We have also come to illustrate divine femininity on the planet. That's not really been seen on the planet up to this point and we want to illustrate that by becoming at-one with God and, for yourself (Mary), being the feminine expression of God.

**Mary:** Well that really includes me, that statement doesn't it? To be the feminine expression.

Exactly. The third thing is that we want to demonstrate what a soul union is, what it means for the two halves of the soul to be one person, what it means to be the one soul. We want to illustrate many truths about the universe and how the universe works. We have also done it for our own discovery, because this is something nobody has done yet. This is the first time it's been done; we wanted to try it and see how it turns out. As you know, sometimes we regret that decision and sometimes we feel it was a great decision. And I feel in the future we will always feel that it was a great decision.

There are also other things that we would like to do. We understand that God is not always going to have the desire to give her Love to people who continue to refuse it. We understand that God's going to withdraw that desire to give Love to people who continue to refuse it, for a period of time, and it would be a shame for people to miss out on this first harvest if you like, the first time on this planet that God has offered Love, for the last 2,000 years of its being offered. It would be a shame for people to miss out on it. We are not saying that God will not offer it again in the future. We fully expect that God would offer it again but there will be a period of time where we believe God will not offer this Love so we want to tell people, "There's an opportunity for you. Take it." I can think of many hundreds of other reasons for returning in the manner in which we have done: - To illustrate what it means to be a loving person on earth. - To do it without forcing people into coming into acknowledgement. - To cause people to have to reason about the choices they make that are unloving. - To cause them to see what it means to live a life of love. All these different things, you know. There are so many hundreds of things that we can't all list now but they are all good reasons for coming. - Not to destroy the wicked. That's a very poor reason but also not a reason that God would ever engage and as a result of my connection with God, I could never engage. I know other Christians would certainly like it to happen but I have suggested to them that they are not very connected to God if they believe that it's going to happen.

### 12. Matt 24:23-27 How do we know you're not a false prophet?

**Mary:** In Matthew 24:23-27 it says: "Then if anyone says to you, 'Look, here is the Christ!' or 'There he is!' do not believe it. For false Christs and false prophets will arise and perform great signs and wonders, so as to lead you astray if possible, even the elect." How do we know that you are not a false prophet, as this Bible verse has warned?

Well firstly, I'm not performing great signs. I find it interesting sometimes because I'm criticised for not performing great signs but I'm actually not performing great signs at the moment and I'm still being criticised, so no matter what you do people criticise you.

But with regard to this issue of false prophets: certainly that is something I did say, that people would be false towards you. There are many people who are teachers who are false, and there are many people who are saying that they are prophets who are false. There are many people currently influenced by spirits, deeply influenced by spirits. They are often falsely portraying themselves as speakers of truth, if you like.

We need to work out a way to determine who's false and who isn't. I said that in the Bible as well. There's a Bible verse in Matthew 7 that talks about how to determine whether somebody is false and what to do if somebody is false. This is what it says. "Watch out for false prophets. They come to you in sheep's clothing but inwardly they are ferocious wolves. By their fruit you will recognise them. Do people pick grapes from thorn bushes or figs from thistles? Likewise, every good tree bears good fruit but a bad tree bears bad fruit. A good tree cannot bear bad fruit and a bad tree cannot bear good fruit. Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire; thus by their fruit you will recognise them."

What I was saying then, and I actually did say those or similar words, was that the only real way that a person can determine whether somebody is a good person or a good prophet, if we can call it that, or whether a person is deceitful or bad, is by examining their life over a period of time and see how they act and deal with everybody around them, to see what actually happens. For a prophet to be true, what he prophesies needs to come true. There are things that I have prophesied, that have come true. There are many times when I am asked questions and I say, "Oh I feel that this will happen," but I wouldn't go ahead and prophesy about it because I don't believe that I know whether that will come true or not. Probably Earth change events fit into that category. I have a feeling about it but I'm not prophesying about it. To prophesy about something you have to have a definite feeling that it is something that is true.

At this point in time, generally everything that I say is about my memories and so I know they are true. That's why I say them as if they are truth because I know that they are. But a false prophet will say things about the future or say things about a teaching that when you practice it, it turns out not to be true. Simple as that. So that's how you can tell. You can tell by the fruitage of what happens when you follow such a teaching. So my suggestion to people is that they don't need to be so afraid of false prophets or people who are deceitful, because sooner or later you work out whether they are deceitful or not.

Interestingly, a lot of the people who I've dealt with have felt after a period of time that I'm deceitful. One of the reasons is that eventually they come up against something personally; they ask me a question and I give them a direct answer but it's not an answer that they like. A lot of people are not very truthful with themselves about answers they don't like. They blame the deliverer of the information rather than looking at themselves and looking at their response to the information. So most people in my life interact with me for a period of time and then when they hear something they do not like they accuse me of all sorts of things that before that period of time they didn't feel I did. They're being false with me and also being false with other people that they tell those things to.

One of the reasons we are very open now on the internet about what we say and do and why we record almost everything that we say and do with people is that we've had many dealings with people where people have claimed that I have said something that has not been true. We have actual recordings to prove that what they claim is not true. In the future we feel very strongly, we want to make sure, that when people claim things that are false we would like to be able to say, "No, this is actually what happened." And that's the reason why we record most things.

But the point that I'm getting at is that sooner or later people will know the truth based on what happens. So there's no need to judge right in the moment. A lot of people, particularly a lot of Christians, go "We can't listen to you because the Bible says that a false prophet will come and you're one of those." So how are they ever going to recognise their Jesus when he returns? Well they say, "Oh, because he'll be like a flash of lightning from the east to the west and the sun will turn to this and the moon will turn to blood and everything, and then we'll know." And I'm saying, "Well, none of those things will happen and we have scriptural evidence even, Bible-based evidence, that Jesus would not engage in any of those things and that God would not engage in any of those things. So assuming that none of those things will happen, what are you going to do to determine who's the actual Jesus who claims to be Jesus?"

At the moment on the earth there are thousands of people who claim to be Jesus. Some of them have very large followings. I was watching a video the other day about a man in Russia who has 50,000 or so people following him. And he can't give a direct answer about any subject when he is interviewed. But lots and lots of people are following him and he teaches that women are lesser than men and he teaches quite a number of other things that are false, and sooner or later, 'By their works you will know them,' and even if the works mean by their works they finish up passing, and passing into the spirit world, then you'll know them. Sooner or later you will know who the real Jesus is and who the real Jesus isn't.

But there are hundreds of thousands of spirits who claim to be me and there are thousands of people on earth who claim to be me, and the only way to tell who is the real me is to determine by the fruitage of the person. That's the only real way of determining and it was the same in the first century. There were thousands of people who claimed to be the messiah. While I was alive there were hundreds of people claiming to be the messiah. While I was alive many of them finished up murdered by the Roman army because they were leading rebellions against the Roman army, claiming to be the messiah, and many people followed them. But if a person was looking at the Truth and Love they would never have followed such a person. So that again was the key. By the fruitage of the person you would recognise.

**Mary:** So you're really saying that with regard to the first scripture I quoted, about the false prophets, how we know you're not a false prophet is to really examine your fruits, to reference the other scripture.

Yeah, and firstly I have not performed any powerful works or miracles or anything else at this point in time. So I am not misleading people by performing powerful works and miracles. There are a lot of people on the earth who are misleading people by performing miracles, by the way, who are being assisted by spirits to perform such miracles, and they mislead a lot of people. But I'm not one of them because I don't do that. All I'm doing at this point in time is sharing truth with people and being very direct and honest and open in my statements with people, which is certainly not performing miraculous signs or miraculous works. So I don't even fit into the category of the quotation really. However, if I did, because I am claiming that I am Jesus, I might fit into the category then. Then the key is, you're going to have to look at my conduct and my dealings with everybody over a long period of time before you are going to know. That's the reality.

**Mary:** Yeah, and I suppose something else that you touched on in your answer was the sense of fear that many Christians have surrounding this verse from Matthew and needing to be cautious, and you have actually said in your answer that there's no need to be so cautious. If you examine the fruits of a person then you'll know one way or another and there's no need to ...

Yeah. For example, if there's a man claiming to be Jesus and you see in his dealings with women that he's basically a sexual predator, then you know that he can't be Jesus. It's quite simple. Jesus would not be a sexual predator and I'm certainly not a sexual predator. Many people claim that I am or they want to claim that I am but there's no proof or evidence of it. I've had one relationship in the last ten years and that's with you (Mary), so how does that make me a sexual predator? Every single person who sees me in a seminar does not ever feel any sexual energy come from me. So the evidence is not there. In the first century people made all sorts of claims and the Bible shows this. In the Bible it says that they claimed I was the son of the devil. They claimed that I healed people because I was the son of the devil. They claimed that I was mad and crazy. They claimed that I was some kind of deviant of some kind. Usually it was sexual or political in nature. They claimed many things, all of which were false, which any person who was close by me could see quite clearly. Many people are making exactly the same claims today, exactly the same claims, all of which are also false. But they are perfectly happy to make the claims while they can get away with it and while nobody suggests differently to them.

**Mary:** Yeah, and I suppose that where I was heading with my question is that you're saying that Christians don't need to be afraid. They are afraid because of this scripture. Why don't they need to be afraid? You're saying we can examine the fruits but there's certainly a feeling in some of the Christians that I've spoken to; they have a feeling that somehow they'll be tricked and perhaps deceived, which the scripture implies, and that they can be led astray. You're saying they don't need to be afraid of that? Is that right?

Well, not really, no. I'm not saying they need to be afraid of anything. The reality is that a person who's connected with God receives Divine Love and receives Truth from God. They are able to determine Truth in what other people say to them. So there's no need to be afraid of what other people say to them. I'm not afraid of what anybody says to me. A lot of people will make all sorts of claims to me about themselves and I'm not afraid of any of them. There's no need for a person to be afraid. There is the need for a person to be able to logically analyse and look the way through the material that they receive. There's definitely a need to do that. There's also a definite need to be circumspect about what you actually follow. You certainly do need to do that. It's no good following a course of action that will cause you to finish up murdering someone, when the Bible is quite plainly against such behaviour and also your own feelings of love would be against such behaviour.

That being said, why do people go to war? They follow a government into war. Why do they do that? Because they are willing to dismiss the feelings of their heart based around love and they are willing to accept a prerogative to do something out of harmony with love based on some other kind of pressure that they are receiving. Now a person who is in a good connection with God and themselves would never do that. Even if somebody attempted to force me to go to war, I'd rather go to jail than go to war and I'd rather be murdered myself than go to war. That's the reality. I'd never go to war under any circumstance. I'd even rather see you murdered than me go to war. A lot of people have trouble with that but that's how strongly I feel about the subject. There is no way a person can manipulate me into going to war, even by killing my loved ones.

**Mary:** So that's why you're saying that people need not be afraid, because if they have some kind of moral integrity then they can't really be swayed.

Not only if they have moral integrity. If they understand the truth that comes with this relationship with God they will understand that there's nothing to fear from death. They would understand there's nothing to fear from any of these particular activities so why would you worry about them? The only worry is about what can manipulate you out of a condition of love. To me that's the main concern a person should have. "What is manipulating me right at this moment out of my condition of love and into some kind of addiction and into some kind of unloving behaviour?" That's the worry. That's the thing people should be concerned about if they are going to be concerned about anything.

**Mary:** Isn't that what they are afraid of though, with false prophets? That somehow a false prophet will manipulate them out of a condition of love?

No. Most of the time they are afraid of punishment. They are afraid of punishment from an angry God saying, "You shouldn't have believed that. I'm going to kill you as a result." There's nothing to be afraid of about that from God because God isn't an angry God that's going to punish them, so they don't need to be afraid of that. The only thing they need to be concerned about is what is going to take them out of harmony with love.

Going to war is going to take somebody out of harmony with love. So I wouldn't do it if I were you, because it's going to take you out of harmony with love. Now any person who preaches it from a pulpit is out of harmony with love. In fact, he's more culpable because he's encouraging people to go to war and murder other people. So he's definitely out of harmony with love and I'd be very concerned about that. If I was sitting down in my church and the minister started talking about going to war and killing other people in defence of your country, I'd be getting up and walking out and I don't know if I'd go back because, to be honest, that person is trying to manipulate me out of love. If a preacher got up and started talking to me about how I should treat you as lesser than me and you should be subject to me and I should be able to boss you around and tell you what to do and you've got to take that because that's how Christ treats the congregation and all those kinds of things, which is also a lie, I would be very worried about that because it's a manipulation that's out of harmony with love.

Under those circumstances I'd be very concerned. I'd definitely treat the person as a false prophet or a false teacher under those circumstances because it's very obvious that what he's teaching is out of harmony with love. While it might be in harmony with the Bible, it's still out of harmony with Love. This is where I'm saying that the Bible is not always in harmony with Love. If I treat the Bible as only God's Word, all of God's Word every single time, then I'm going to be doing a lot of things out of harmony with love if I follow it to the letter. And that's not good for my soul. It's not good for my future progress. It's not good for my relationship with God. Because God doesn't care about what a written word says. God cares about whether you're in harmony with Love or not. That's what God cares about.

Many of these verses that talk about me, or worry about people like me, people who come along and prophesy something or teach something, people don't need to be so afraid. Because even the Bible in Matthew 24 encourages fear which is out of harmony with Love. I said, "Love, pure love, throws away all fear." In fact if you look at another verse in the Bible, in 1st John 4, what does it say about fear and love? It says that the two of them cannot coexist with each other. It says, "There is no fear in love. Perfect love drives out fear because fear has to do with punishment. The one who fears is not made perfect in love.

So here we have a verse, a very true verse, one of the truest verses in the Bible, in fact, probably my favourite verse in the Bible; here we've got a verse saying that if we truly love we have nothing to fear. And then we've got Matthew 24 saying we've got a lot to fear. And I'm going, "No, no, no, something's wrong here. Something is inconsistent. If we truly love we've got nothing to fear because we have to ability to clearly see what's in harmony with love and what's out of harmony with love. We have the ability to determine the difference and we have the ability to act using our will in harmony with love every time." That's what it means by becoming perfect and that's what I referred to when I said, "You must be perfect as your heavenly Father is perfect. You cannot become at-one with God without becoming perfect and perfected in love.

There are many verses in the Bible that do not encourage perfection in love and those verses need to be discounted and removed from our life and even removed from our consideration when it comes to what we should do with our life. But there are many verses in the Bible that are very focused on love, like the one I just read in 1st John 4. And that verse is something that you definitely need to appreciate the rest of your life, that there is no fear in love. Once you are perfected in love you won't be afraid of anything. You won't be afraid of a false prophet. You won't be afraid of a deceiver. You'll know when somebody's deceiving you. You'll know when somebody is being false with you. You won't be afraid of Jesus coming on the clouds to destroy everybody who doesn't believe because you know that that will never happen, because Jesus is not like that. You would know that as well because you know that he has been perfected in love just like you have.

### 13. Matt 24:4-5 Are you not just another false Christ deceiving us?

**Mary:** In Matthew 24: 4-5, it says "And Jesus answered and said to them, "Take heed that no-one deceives you, for many will come in my name, saying, 'I am the Christ,' and will deceive many." Could you not just be another person who is saying that they are Jesus and therefore just be another deceiver, as stated in this verse?

Good question. Now firstly, I did say those words. I did say that people need to be careful about those who deceive them or attempt to deceive them. I was already aware that there were a growing number of spirits in the spirit world who were ready to deceive people by claiming that they were me. As it's turning out now, as I've said at other times, there are literally hundreds of thousands of spirits in the spirit world who go around to people on earth and in the spirit world claiming to be me, and some of those people who they go to are definitely deceived. In addition, on earth there are thousands of people who claim to be me and many of the people who listen to them are deceived. That's a fact.

Could I be a deceiver? Yes, of course I could. Under the same circumstances I could be a deceiver. However, I can't be a deceiver just by somebody claiming that I am a deceiver based on a Bible scripture. See, many of the people who email me these kinds of emails do not realise that they are basically saying, "The Bible says that deceivers will come so you must be a deceiver." And I'm going, "Well, there's no logic in that argument whatsoever." Firstly, if the Bible says deceivers will come, then deceivers will certainly come. I'd agree with that. But it doesn't automatically make me a deceiver.

What makes me a deceiver? A deceiver is a person who purposefully manipulates the truth in order to control or manipulate other people, and perhaps do things, based on their own ends and means. A deceiver knows the truth themselves but chooses to tell a lie. That's what a deceiver does. I would say that many of the people who claim to be me are not deceivers. Many of them believe themselves to be me but that doesn't make them a deceiver. It makes them a person who is deluded, which is a very different condition to being a deceiver. A person who is a deceiver knows that they are not me, knows they are not Jesus, and still claims to be.

There are many hundreds of thousands of those people in the spirit world, who know they are not personally Jesus but they claim to be me because they get certain things out of it. There are also certain persons on earth who claim to be me and they know they are not me but they say that to get things out of it. But there are other people on earth who claim to be me who are just over-cloaked by the deceiving spirits. The person themself claiming to be me is being deceived by the deceiving spirit. And I agree that this spirit is deceiving but the person on earth is deluded and also easily manipulated into a belief of something.

**Mary:** So there's a lot going on?

There's a lot going on, but I also want to make this point, and that is, just because the Bible talks about deceivers it does not mean that I am one, and any person who sends me an email calling me a deceiver without listening to anything that I've taught and without looking at my life or knowing anything about my life, is totally illogical. They are totally without any scrap of logic in their brain to be able to call someone a deceiver without knowing the person whatsoever. A person who is actually a deceiver needs to be tested through their actions, and a person who does that with me will find that my actions are very consistent with all of my words and therefore I am not a deceiver.

Now with the issue of whether I'm Jesus or not: Well it's going to be very very hard for any person to determine whether I'm Jesus or not if a) they are not connected with God, or b) they are not connected with love. It's going to be very very difficult for them to determine whether I'm a deceiver. If they are connected with God, as I said in the first century, they would know God's son. They would know the person who has become at-one with God. They would know every person who has become at-one with God actually.

For example, if you become at-one with God and I become at-one with God and we meet each other for the first time, you would know that I'm at-one with God and I would know that you are at-one with God, because we both have that direct communication with God at that moment and we'd both know. If we don't know it's because a) we are not at-one with God yet, and b) we have no ability to determine or discern what the true character of the other person is.

Most of the people who email me these kinds of emails have no idea what my true character is. They've never had any personal dealings with me. They base it all on innuendo, media accusations that are mostly false, and also their own interpretation of what they believe I would be doing if I'm saying that I'm Jesus, falsely, all of which are their own interpretations and assumptions. It's got nothing to do with reality. So I again suggest, "I am not a deceiver and also this verse does not apply to me. However, you may think it applies to me and I'm perfectly happy for you to have that opinion if that's the opinion you want to maintain."

Were there more things on that subject? I just feel quite strongly that people accuse other people of things that they have no proof of whatsoever. And they do it because of their own emotional reasons. To give you an example of this issue: I come along saying I'm Jesus and people go "What is he saying?" And they go, "He said that God is not an angry God. I can't believe that. He can't be Jesus."

Now those two are not logical conclusions. Firstly, as I stated, God is a loving God. God would never be angry. You don't have to believe that. If you want to believe in an angry God, go ahead. You have the free will to do so, so if you want to believe in an angry God, go ahead and believe in an angry God. However, my saying that God is not an angry God doesn't make me a deceiver. In fact, if the actual truth is that God is not an angry God and I am saying that God is not an angry God, then I am the only person not deceiving you, because there are so many other religious people that are deceiving you by saying that God is an angry God.

To determine deceit we have to know the truth, and that's the point of what I'm saying. How do we know the truth? We know the truth by receiving Divine Love, having God's Love enter our heart and then God exposes the truth to us, not by reading the Bible. If you read the Bible and you think you know the truth you are out of harmony with love straight away because there are many things in the Bible that are not true and are completely out of harmony with love.

**Mary:** I suppose that this is where some people get a bit caught up, don't they? They read the Bible or some kind of literature, holy book, something, and they have a sensation that they believe is receiving God's Love, which is validation for what they're ...

In that moment.

**Mary:** In that moment they feel overwhelmed by a sense of Love and ...

... and that's fantastic. They have received Divine Love.

**Mary:** Then they say, "Because it happened as I was reading this book, therefore I know that this is the truth."

No, you don't know. You only know that in that moment, the very moment you received Divine Love, in that moment you were in harmony with Truth. That's the only thing you know. You know nothing else. You can't assume that everything is true when you only read one thing at that moment that caused you to have that experience. See, there's all these assumptions that are made that are illogical and this is what I'm discussing with people. Illogical assumptions are going to be very damaging to your future. Very damaging. It's illogical to assume that if you have an experience of receiving Divine Love when you read one verse it means that all of the verses are true. That's not true. I've had hundreds of experiences of receiving Divine Love in the first century and now, by reading certain Bible verses. But I know for certain that the Bible is not true, not completely true. I know that the verse that I was reading had a big emotional significance and a big significance in my relationship with God. That's what I know. Nothing else. I don't make illogical assumptions about all the other verses in the Bible based on one verse.

**Mary:** Sure, sure. Okay, thank you.

One of the things I'd like to mention about people who quote the Bible to me is that they quote the Bible to me making the assumption that the Bible is true. And I've quite categorically stated in many occasions that the Bible is not true. And anybody who assumes the Bible to be true is already often assuming things that are out of harmony with truth or love.

**Mary:** In its entirety you mean. It's not a true ...

That's correct. There are certain things that are true inside of it but in its entirety it is not true. Just because a person is quoting a verse to me it means nothing. It only proves to me that the person is indoctrinated by the Bible. That's all it proves. It doesn't prove anything else. It doesn't prove that I'm a deceiver. It doesn't prove that I'm a false prophet. It doesn't even prove that I'm not Jesus. All it proves to me is that they are completely indoctrinated by a book that contains a whole heap of falsehood as well as a whole heap of truth, in my opinion. That's all it proves.

For example, just because the Bible says something about God, such as, "God is a person who is wrathful and will destroy the wicked," it does not mean that that's true about God, because I know that God will never destroy the wicked and God is not a wrathful being. Just because the Bible is saying that something is true it doesn't mean that it is true. I feel it's very important for people to understand that.

Secondly, I think it's very important for people to get this concept: That many of them are being deceived while they claim that I am a deceiver. What I mean by that is that many of their teachers are deceiving them with things from the Bible that are untrue. Now some of the teachers are deceived themselves and so it becomes easy for them to state untruth to other people because they do believe them to be truths. And I understand that. I get that, so I wouldn't call those teachers deceivers. I would call them misled or in the first century I called them blind guides who lead others into the pit, who lead other blind people into the pit. That's what many of the teachers of today are, in Christian religion. They are blind guides leading blind people into a pit. Many people, once they fall in the pit, feel they've been deceived but many times the person who led them there was just as deceived as the person who was led into that particular condition.

What I'm suggesting to people is that there's a way to tell about deceit, and the way is to actually work through the issues of love on any issue. Instead of believing that the whole of the Bible is God's Word, focus on the issues of love that you listen to. When you hear something and you feel, "That doesn't feel like love to me," then put it to one side. Don't just go ahead and believe it because the Bible says it or because a minister says it. Put it to one side and allow time and prayer and other things to gel on this particular issue. Don't try to intellectually gymnastic yourself into believing it. What I mean by that is, and I feel a lot of Christians do this, they do all these intellectual gymnastics in order to believe one thing is true and the other thing is true at the same time.

**Mary:** Trying to figure out an intellectual ...

... reason why both things should be true. Because they make the presumption that all of the Bible is God's Word. They say, "When God said that and when God said that, it must mean ... that I'm confused. God must have said that and God must have said that and I'm just confused about how God could have said both things." No, if you're confused, trust me, there's a good chance that God would be just as confused looking at the situation. Aside from the fact that God doesn't need to be confused because God knows the emotional reasons why the writer wrote that and why the writer wrote that.

**Mary:** The writer ...

Yeah, the writer of the particular passages that you're looking at. My suggestion to people would be to look at each passage and go, "If I am confused there's something wrong. God gave me a logical brain so if I am confused something is wrong. I need to put both of these verses aside and then test them through love, test them through my feelings of love, what I currently believe love to be" ... which might change in the future as you receive more truth. And allow yourself to test this process. Now if you do not do that, there is a high likelihood you will be deceived in your future by people who are either purposefully attempting to deceive you or who are deceived themselves and have become like blind guides themselves. You will do that if you are not willing to test things yourself.

Testing things yourself requires personal responsibility. Very few people on the planet want to take personal responsibility for their choices in life. God requires you to take personal responsibility for every choice you've ever made. So this is something out of harmony with God. If you want to put your trust in other people because you don't want to trust your own analysis, you've already gotten out of harmony with the truth about self-responsibility. You need to take self-responsibility for every action. Later on down the track when you've gone to war because your minister told you that you should and you arrive in heaven, in the spirit world, which is what I would view the heaven to be, you will find that you will be in the hells of the spirit world. And you won't be able to say, "Oh, but my minister told me to do it," because God attributes every decision you make to you. God attributes every choice you make to your own choice.

You need to learn to take responsibility now for your own choices, whenever 'now' is, even if you're a spirit. Take responsibility now for your own choices. You believed things because you were open to believing them. You believed that German people or Japanese people or a person of a different colour to you deserved to die, or you felt justified in doing it because other people justified it. Or you were afraid of your government and that's what caused you to do it. Or you were afraid of your friends and what they thought of you and that's what caused you to do it. You had some reason to take the life of another person, which is out of harmony with love. You're responsible for it. Once we understand that we are personally responsible for every choice we make, we are no longer afraid about being deceived. We are very cautious about what we choose to believe. And I do suggest that people are very cautious about what they choose to believe and they should be very cautious with everything they hear from me for the same reason. We need to analyse it from the position of love and then we know what we can believe.

### 14. Are you not a false prophet and deceiver? You will go to hell!

**Mary:** I believe you are a false prophet and deceiver, the same as the ones Jesus warned us about in the Bible. You need to repent; otherwise you will spend forever in hell.

Do you, Mary? (Laughing)

**Mary:** No. Today I'm asking someone else's questions here. If that's not evident to everyone - I hope that it is.

Yes, I've had a lot of emails from Christian people on this particular topic. They're not really asking me a question. Firstly, it's not a question; it's a statement. Generally with statements, my feeling is that you are allowed to feel what you feel. I know you're not right. That's okay with me. You can believe that if you wish. It's going to be to your own detriment in the future, in the sense that you had the opportunity to listen to Jesus and you didn't take it and that's fine. You don't have to accept that but that's what's actually happening here.

However, I'd probably like to address some of the issues surrounding what the person raises. The statement itself: Firstly, there is no devil-tormented hell that you stay in forever. There are hells in the spirit world where people who have created a dark condition have to reside because they need a dark residence in order to meet their condition. They've actually created their own hell. That's the reality. God didn't create the hell. God created the potential for the hell to exist by giving us free will. But the people themselves created their own hell and then they live in it, but they don't have to live in it permanently. It's not a permanent condition. They can change at any time. A loving God doesn't consign people to eternal torment, doesn't consign people to eternal, everlasting death or eternal, everlasting tormented hell. In fact if you believe that such a God exists you believe in a very very harsh god. A person, a god actually, that is more harsh than the average person on earth. And I suggest that God is far more loving than the average person on earth and definitely not as harsh as the average person on earth.

Now the other issue I feel is that if you believe in such a god then you're basically frightened of him and you're frightened of what he'd do to you. You're frightened that he will throw you in hell for the devil to torment for the rest of your existence, and if you email me such an email you're trying to frighten me into the same condition that you're in. I'm sorry, but I can't be frightened into such condition because I know that no such devil and no such eternal torment exist. I know for certain because I've seen these locations; I know what they look like, so you cannot convince me that I deserve to be consigned to hell. I know the people who arrive in hell. They are very similar to the person who asked this question actually, in the sense that they are people who are full of rage and anger and fear. Many of these people finish up in hell, in the hells, not understanding that they can get out, because they believed while on earth that you can't get out. They have to have people like myself come to them and tell them, "You're allowed to get out of here. All you need to do is change your belief systems and change your emotional condition to get out of here."

I also know that I'll never be consigned to hell and I know the reason why. It is that I desire to love, I desire to grow, I desire Truth; this is my condition. And I know that even if I arrived in hell in the spirit world I would never stay there for very long, because my desire is to grow in love. My suggestion to the person is that if I do arrive in hell in the spirit world I'm not going to be there very long, because I have a huge desire for God and love, and to grow in love and truth and also because my actions on earth are not the actions of a person who is violent in their nature and who does not love. So there's a high likelihood I will never find myself in hell when I arrive in the spirit world. I'm not frightened of such a thing. I'm not frightened, whether I arrive there or not.

**Mary:** Just to clarify, you're saying that what this person is asserting, that you'll spend forever in hell, is not possible.

No. No person in existence has ever spent forever in hell.

**Mary:** So you're saying that while a hellish place does exist ...

Hellish places do exist.

**Mary:** ... that it is not somewhere that you are consigned to forever and that you can always grow your character.

Yes.

**Mary:** So why then does this teaching exist?

It exists for many reasons. One of the reasons is that human society historically went through a degradation of the soul. It went through a process of withdrawing from God, withdrawing from ethics, withdrawing from love and as a result the soul of the particular people involved became degraded to such a condition that when they passed over into the spirit world they passed into these hells. For many hundreds, and for some of them thousands, of years they didn't get out of those conditions. If you've been in a place for a thousand years you'll start to believe that you're there forever and so you then start teaching other people on earth that they'll be there forever if they keep on doing the things that they're doing. This is how false beliefs get perpetrated on earth. Spirits go through a certain experience. They are in that experience for a long period of time. They believe the experience to be the only truth and then they reinforce this so-called truth that they have discovered through their personal experience, back onto the earth and try to force other people to believe the same thing. Then of course there's a build-up of fear that occurs as a result of that and then those people pass over into the same dark condition and then the next generation passes over into the same dark condition and historically there have been, in some cases, a hundred generations in series pass over into the same condition.

**Mary:** Into a hellish condition.

Into a hellish condition. Imagine what you are going to be telling the next generation if you are in those hundreds of generations. You are going to be telling them that hell certainly exists and they are going to go there if they keep doing what they are doing and so forth. You'll tell them what you believe to be true without knowing why the hellish condition was created.

Once these spirits began to understand why these hellish conditions were created, that they had personally created it through the choices of their own soul, they started to grow. They started to get out of the hellish condition and that's why nowadays there are more teachings on earth that you can get out of a hellish condition than there are just everybody believing that you can't.

**Mary:** But there must be an investment in people on earth, leaders of religious movements, in continuing this teaching of hell.

Certainly. I feel that there are quite a number of reasons for the investment. One reason is that many of these ministers themselves are afraid of hell and they are afraid that the people they are trying to help will end up in hell if they keep doing the unloving things that they are doing.

**Mary:** So there's a fear-based concern.

There's a fear-based concern in the minister or the teacher. He then impresses upon them how important it is that they do not do that particular thing, which may be a truth actually. They might end up in hell; it's just not a hell that's eternal. They impress this upon the person so strongly that they start becoming angry and violent in the oppression, because they are afraid of the person making a wrong choice, which really is about their own fear about themselves making a wrong choice at some point.

They start feeling responsible for the members of their congregation or the people they are teaching. The problem with taking responsibility for other people's choices or decisions is that it's impossible. From God's perspective and as the Bible actually says, "Each one will account for his own sin." It says that in the book of Romans. Each person who works through stuff on earth will account at some point in the future for their own sin. Nobody else can do it for you. Jesus can't do it for you. Your minister can't do it for you. You've got to give up this concept that you are responsible for somebody else and what they do. You are not, unless you motivated them to do it. Then you are partially responsible. But aside from that you're not responsible at all. They have free will. They had a choice and decision to make.

So any person who has this sort of idea will go down the track of believing that they feel quite strongly that they must impress strongly on people to be careful of where they are going, careful of hell. While it's right to impress upon somebody strongly, the results of their actions are not going to be good. It's not good to use fear as a motivating factor for them to be good, because fear in the end does not motivate people to be good, it just motivates people to avoid being bad. I hope people who are listening get that. Fear only motivates you to avoid something. It doesn't motivate you to have a desire, a pure desire for something different. God wants us to have a pure desire for love. That is the driving force. Anybody who is motivated by fear will not have a pure desire for love. The trouble with threatening people with hell is that you are not motivating them to have a pure desire for Love; you are motivating them to avoid a punishment. And that's a sad fact.

**Mary:** What about this idea that priests and religious leaders want to control people through fear? You've mentioned that they have a concern, a fear-based concern. But what about this idea of actually controlling people?

Yeah, well historically, particularly through the Dark Ages, it was very prevalent that priests and ministries wanted more than just to advise a flock about how to be loving people. They wanted total dominion and control over their people. This is why the Dark Ages actually occurred. The Spanish Inquisition is a good example of how distorted ministers and leaders sometimes get, once they go down this track of believing that they are God's instrument on earth to punish people whenever they see fit. And they did that, you know. Many of these ministers were terrible people, to be frank, evil people only wanting to rape woman after woman and take the wealth of other people. They wanted to create fear and pain in people around them. They just ruled with iron fists and many of them are still in hell, in the hells of the spirit world, as a result of their choices, their unloving choices to damage other people.

Historically there have been many ministers and priests who have desired to control other people through fear. One way to cause a person to fear is to say, "God is going to punish you if you don't do this," and if a person finishes up believing that then you've got control of them. When I say, "God is not going to punish you for doing something," the ministers almost have a heart attack, because they go, "Well, why is anybody going to do anything good then? And I say, "Because they want the Love. That's the only thing that is going to help them do anything good. Not fear. Fear is just going to help them avoid doing anything bad. That's the difference."

I feel quite strongly that there are some ministers who are sincere but who are themselves deceived when it comes to the Bible. There are other ministers who are not sincere and all they want is control and power over people. There are some ministers who are afraid for their flock and so they put fear into their flock so their flock does whatever they feel is the right thing to do. Each one of those things is not based around love so they can never have a good outcome and, to be honest, they don't have a good outcome. When these people pass into the spirit world they often find themselves in a place that I would not find myself and that is in the hells.

The man who made this original question to us, stating that I'll be in the hells because I'm a deceiver or a false prophet, he has no knowledge whatsoever of one particular fact. And that is, that he will find in the future that he is being deceived by some people who are deceivers and false prophets and by other people who are well-meaning and well-intentioned but who believe the same deceit. In the future he will come to see that if he does arrive in hell, he has a way of getting out. He's not going to be consigned there forever.

**Mary:** Which is great!

Which is great, and it is something I feel he needs to allow himself to do. I feel quite strongly that if he does that his life will benefit immensely, if he allowed himself to see that. But I do feel that a lot of the emails that we receive we cannot really respond to because they are unloving in the way in which they are delivered. They are not questions, they are just statements of judgement. People do not know us and they are making these judgements based on media presentations that are also false, which is a very dangerous thing to do, because you are basing your assumptions and your character assassinations on other people's assumptions and character assassinations and that is a never a very wise course of action.

In the end they might find they miss out on a lot of new truths that Jesus can teach them in this process, just by ignoring the fact that Jesus has come. The man who's claiming to be Jesus that everybody thinks isn't, is actually the one who is Jesus. They could finish up learning a lot more, about the Bible, about life and about God, than they currently know, if they had a more open mind and a more open heart. Which I suppose is the more important thing.

### 15. Matt 24:4-5 Who would come in your name and deceive many?

**Mary:** What did you mean by "Many will come in my name and deceive many"? Who were you speaking of?

Well I was aware at the time of all of the comings and goings in the spirit world. When you become at-one with God you can easily see spirits. You can communicate with them. You can easily see the intentions of people on earth and you can feel what they will do in the future as a result of those intentions. Because I could see all of these various factors I realised that in the future, because of the gathering momentum of the Christian faith as it was being taught at the time, people would eventually come from the spirit world to people on earth claiming to be me in order to manipulate and deceive people on earth.

I understood that this would be a natural occurrence given the fact that God allows communication between the spirit world and the earth. God's Laws allow this communication to occur. Not only spirits who are of good condition can communicate, such as Moses and Elijah who communicated with me, and Elijah who communicated with me in the first century when we went on the mount with the transfiguration, but you also have spirits in a terrible condition being able to communicate with people on earth. The kind of spirit that the person on earth would attract would be a spirit in a very similar soul-based condition to the person on earth, and I notice this occurring all the time. The person who is a murderer, or inclined to be a murderer, on earth would often be surrounded by spirits who were trying to push the person into murdering again. The person who is a rapist on earth would be surrounded by a group of spirits trying to force the person into raping again, or even raping for the first time. The person might have the emotions inside of them that they are willing to rape and then the spirits around them try to push them into that action. We see a lot of evidence of this today. When people appear in court they say, "I can't remember doing it," or they say, "I had all these voices telling me to do it." They say all sorts of things and much of it is proof that what I'm saying about these particular factors is true.

Now I knew these particular people would want in the future to deceive people by claiming to be me, and telling them other things that weren't true. In human history, there have been literally hundreds of thousands of these people who have done this, who claimed to be me, to tell a whole heap of things that are false. I knew that would occur and so I warned my disciples about deceivers coming and what they would try to do to deceive them. I warned them that the disciples would need to be in a good soul-based condition to attract higher spirits. If they weren't, they were going to attract very dark spirits. As it occurred, straight after my death Peter attracted some very dark spirits, enough dark spirits to rape you (Mary) and harm the cause of truth on earth very markedly within the first few days after my death. They were the kinds of spirits that were surrounding many of my disciples in the first century.

**Mary:** And do you feel that that's happening again now on earth?

Of course, yeah. As you know, we often go along to presentations and we give a seminar and the whole room is just filled with negative dark spirits trying to influence a lot of the audience into disbelief, fear and all sorts of other emotions. Sometimes the audience is so heavy we've almost got to stop the whole proceeding. There's so much influence, and there's so much fear on earth about the influence that causes the attraction. Many times we've seen dark spirits in our audiences influencing different people to ask certain questions, to be belligerent, to make criticisms that they wouldn't normally make, in public at least, to even take actions they wouldn't normally take, and this is a normal occurrence. The openness of their soul attracts these particular things to them.

The same thing applies to Christians as much as it applies to Muslims as much as it applies to atheists as much as it applies to persons of any persuasion, politically, religiously or otherwise. There are literally groups of spirits surrounding any individual coming along to a seminar, controlling their thoughts and their behaviour and even their ability to listen. We have some people out of our audiences ask a question and immediately I start answering the question they go to sleep. Like, how does that happen? By the influence of spirits just tuning them out, not wanting to hear the answer.

We've had people ask the same questions twenty times. Why do you think they have to ask twenty times? Because they don't want the answer I gave them the first time, and these are all parts of being spirit influenced. Now this spirit influence causes people on earth to be deceived, I agree. But I don't fear it because I can see it happening. You will only fear it because you can't see it happening and you only can't see it happening because you can't admit to yourself that it's happening or because you're not in a high enough condition of love to understand and feel what's happening.

And so my suggestion again, the answer, is to get into a better condition of love, get into a closer condition with God. Receive some of God's Love, be filled up with that Love and then you'll be able to determine when you're being influenced. You won't need to be afraid about what I said about deceivers. You will go, "Yeah, there's a deceiver, there's a deceiver too. Not very afraid of them. I can recognise them."

I gave people information such as that so that they could be helped to recognise people who do not have their best interests at heart. A person who does not love you does not have your best interests at heart. A person who is angry with you does not have your best interests at heart. They can say whatever they like, they can even say the truth, but they don't have your best interests at heart. It's very unwise to listen to a person who does not have your best interests at heart. Anger, resentment, control, manipulation, power-based things, lies, deceit, these are all proof of people who do not have your best interests at heart. They are the deceivers.

