So welcome everybody Sam Jeffries in the
back you can those of you who are on web
x. And I think we have 11 people who
are on the web actually how many he
could let say hi to them hey web
that hello you know they did and
we happened to graduate school
in a ditch to check Qualls and
she works with our alumni so she's
been behind this 3 to be Leahy spirit
she has been working with
the lady an alumna who is
really passionate about our Ph D.'s
exploring the range of Koreans
she's funding this the speaker series
she's been very generous with us and
we also have Lori White who is still
new communications director for
the graduate school so
she's been chatting with our panelists
I'm going to introduce in a moment but
also some of you about why you're here.
I make sure I cover all
my talking points so
there are 4 sessions this semester we did
a science last month bridging policy and
advocacy this month in the spring
we're doing consulting and
not just management consulting we've
already got one panelist lined up who's
actually been doing consulting.
Firm in chief and an English Ph d.
right he checked.
Very different kind of consulting and
then we're doing several careers in.
I want to do a plug for the p.h.p. career
path with Congress I'm curious if any of
you have gone through that in the past.
Where we're going to have 9 candidates
again May 1st market founders.
Tonight we're going to actually
focus on policy and advocacy and
oftentimes in the postdoc the like
will say I'm interested in policy or
I'm interested in science
communication but they haven't yet
had a chance to explore what that means
tonight panel is really focused not
helping you see some real life examples
from some real live Maryland alumni so
the way it's going to work if they
even ask to prepare some talking point
about their journey write about their
how they went from the Ph D's up to
the position that they're in they're going
to talk about the skills that they use and
then I really encourage
them to be real and
provide it by x. So that's what
they're going to do they're going to
they're going to speak an order
out about a quarter of it or not.
And I'll give them a signal when
it's sort of 2 more minutes
we're going to do group 2 and a it's so
much more fun because I guarantee you
a question that somebody asked
you have the same question.
After we do q. and a time at the end or
you will continue your conversation
with our panelists are long gone and
also with each other because
relationship is a very big part of
your career having professional
relationships be to be lazy feel that
relationships have been detrimental and
instrumental in her career and really
besides being passionate about the correct
liberation she tells the story of how
much relationship matters I that.
Network Ok so I you see you have a little
note she you all have great brains I know
a lot of you remember stuff but the reason
why I decided to kill some training is.
Really to handle it being in
order if you would go ahead and
if you think of a question jot it down
if they say something that if you out
write it down and
then at the end of the program or
sometime tomorrow before too
much time goes by the feedback
on the session there's a u.r.l.
and a q.r. code that you can complete
I swear a 5 minute call trip and
enjoy your service.
You know.
But also I challenge you as you miss and
listen to the length of the questions
that are at the top of the she.
What their journey was like within
about the skills and experiences
they think you should look for listen to
the role that relationship building and
networking play and then ask yourself
their out how can how does this apply to
me how can I use what they're saying how
can benefit me and I challenge you and to
write down just one small career related
action that you can take in the next.
I that's what we've got planned if you
need to be part way through the program
please get up into the check to
be sure yourself are smiling
at your feet great I hear you thinking.
And we've got our is everything
Ok weather All right so Mariska.
Hopefully you read the Bible is on
line of our panel right so you can
see their names and their job title I'm
not going to say much about them but
I want them to talk about their
experiences for their for themselves so
Marissa is going to go 1st followed
by Catherine and then John it will.
Wrap things up Ok that will do
thank you and I take it away
Ok everyone I'm certain to be checking
with you Marilyn I graduate in 2017 so
that every cent and
I really loved my time here so
just by God's hand how many people
are still considering an academic career.
Ok so I kind of remember there
are problems but I hate that and
other people are like lukewarm about it so
I actually went straight into a 10 year
track academic job as a research on
institution after I graduate and
I was ever Pierre and
now I'm working in policy here in d.c. so
you may be wondering how did you leave the
tenure track academic God which is what
people come to ask me specially after 2
years and I think I was told to be not so
I'm going to actually be honest about what
my experience in academia was like and
specifically my experience as a person of
color because I wanted that to be made
that very passionate about social justice
and I want to create some sort of social
change and I wanted to help students
from under-represented backgrounds and
so that was my task and why.
And when I interviewed all these
different places and they were like we
are really into social does the student
we care about this you and we're so
happy to have you and many of these places
I was going to be the 1st on the 1st
faculty member of color or the 1st black
faculty member that was tenure track
because you d.c. people are in
more clinical positions and so
I didn't know what that would need I think
being a liberal place like Washington d.c.
people have to do a baseline
level of understanding but
I was interviewing all over the country
in city play I was going to put myself in
a small town situation and
I ended up in Atlanta so
I was barely diverse but it's still
the south which is what I realized and
being there even within the 1st month
I started to recognize that there were
things that other folks
didn't understand about me.
So I went to the black queer people
in Atlanta and Michaela was like.
What they think they need their own and
I was like.
This is a white gay male by the way and
so and
then I went to the editing room and
brought up that.
You know we really need to diversify we
need to get more back members of color
because again I was the only black and or
fact back member there was 2 other
Asian women and then like 16.
And someone brought up that
we need that person by and
then I heard someone else saying well
you know our faculty racial demographics
reflect the demographics of the nation so
I don't know why we need to do that.
And so I began to realize that some
people were actively about and so
that I had to show we
are there any support for
under-represented faculty members and they
told me that when they tried to create
support there was backlash from
the White back of the members and so
they ended up creating a mentorship
program that was called mentorship.
And so for me I'm going to
these experiences a feeling so
I think in my heart and feeling so
alone feeling like if I ask for
any sort of support I mean people are
going to understand the experiences that
I'm going through I was putting my respect
race identity theft putting my respect up
Mr and they were getting reported because
they mentioned race and I was just like
you know so hard and yet
if I try to tell people how hard it
feels like I'm alive Billie we would
fit in our i was gonna see you
in we would talk about even the color
speaking out against injustice we're not
giving a great We're not giving way and
Grace and we're pushing too hard and this
is this is something that we should think
about and evaluating them in our ability
to move forward in the program I heard a
factory member outside of my door who was
talking about how you know the black
students in my class were disagreeing
with the finding the very contentious
psychologist who argues that black people
have high self-esteem even though
they're very ignorant tied the reason is
because they blame everything on racism
the student didn't take very kindly to
that and this back when it was outside
my door I talking about how the students
are so immature because they haven't they
have had problems with this finding.
And so I was sitting in all these.
Things are happening and
there is one faculty meeting and basically
where we don't have enough money we're
think school we are we have big budget
cuts they're pushing I think a grant to
be able to keep the funding a lot and so
the solution that they
decide is just not happy
then we just have local students
have even from Georgia and
I want to get my job dropped I would like
the board of people work here to protect
them like that's what leadership looks
like you are projecting and advocating for
the people that are most notable below
you and you were entertaining this for
a long time and I'm seeing everybody
concerned you just the paying them you
know I didn't really get to that much
of the piece my new piece of $12000.00
cannot afford to go to the doctor to go
to the grocery store I'm sure some of you
can relate to sitting in that meeting and
I'm just feeling myself getting so
dysregulation it's just so angry and
seeing that I'm the only one to get so
angry and there was just the point
where I was like you know like
these you can't afford groceries
they can't afford medical care like
why don't we talk about cutting off our
salaries at faculty members because that
would not be the difference
between me being able to eat and
so after I said that I would like
contact my mind I just crying as I
feel like I feel like I'm I felt here like
I feel like I kept my mouth all the other
reasons that I was asking about coming
into this field I cannot express here and
she was just like birth like
to be an ass just like.
I can really you're right I can leave
you just like I mean you know for
me someone who had been very involved in
all the wonderful things that Marilyn does
or the color we have to compact
congress critter I personally and.
There is yet the Promise program and
there's different events here and
I got a gimmick job and I realize that
it's not about my skill level like
I could very easily get tenure here that
is not the question the question is do.
I want to continue to be in
a culture that doesn't value
in which I can feel like
I myself in which I can
feel like I received all the things that
brought me here in the 1st place and so
that was basically my decision to leave
I was like I can't do this anymore and
I think common fighting with that decision
was as someone who's really passionate
about social justice that's not what
academia with incentivising I was supposed
to be publishing the peer reviewed
papers in these attacks journals that
you know we hope that people read them but
honestly they're very inaccessible and
they're full of jargon and probably
like 50 people actually read my article.
So I was just feeling like this I
feel like a big hypocrite myself and
I feel like I want to protect students and
I want to protect the publisher and yet
the institution is not allowing me to do
it after that meeting we talked about just
putting our piece didn't I brought to the
faculty that hey I think we need to have
p.c. students at our meetings if we're
going to be making decisions on behalf of
them and the rest of the pack the big like
no they're going to start gossiping about
us and asked thinking well I'm glad
that's more important than accountability
to the most vulnerable population
that we are in charge of and
so after that I just felt like I just
felt like too so just so enraged.
And feeling like I a feeling like
the advice was to keep your head down and
I was just like I was going to my
just going to become part of it
you know like if I'm keeping my head
down for so long at what point does that
become part of my identity and just like I
really don't think I'm willing to do that.
So I had to leave and that's kind of
why I ended up in policy combined
with the reason of you know me feeling
like this academic ivory tower is way too
siloed and I want to share research
to people that I could actually so
I also started doing some science
communication which is basically
translating science with an audience so
I write for Psychology Today.
And I'm actually writing a book right
now to you on the side which is about
how to make friends not the.
Very Thing topic which one.
Brings me to the role of networking and
all of us I can actually use networking to
get my current position which I'm a AAA
and Technology Policy fellow that
program basically takes Ph D.'s
in sciences including social and
put the thing government agencies that
we can learn about and inform policy and
I met Millennium Challenge Corporation
which is the development organization and
I basically think the government
regulation that I felt like had
the politics the most impressed me after
my band and I really wanted to try
something new to have that now I've only
been there for 2 months so I feel like I
can't eat in depth and you might want
me to do at this point my training but.
And that's like an official program
that anyone can apply for and
if you need help or
you need an example application and
feel free to add me on Linked In or
respect me I'm happy to share that.
But something I did want to
say regarding networking so
I think that would be nice to honestly
because when you make friends
people want to do things for their friends
you don't want to do something for
like the slimy food there that you met at
the are like you want to do something for
someone you have a relationship with and
so for me when I'm writing this book
on making friends with an adult you
have to get an agent and this is for
a general audience not for an academic
audience an order to basically sell
a nonfiction book you kind of have to have
a following you have to be kind of like
basically and some like how how am I going
to do that and then I read the book I'm
getting an agent and kind of like 0.002
percent of people get an agent and
basically like the only way you can eat
it is if someone were you I don't like I
don't know anybody who's written a book
like how the hell do I do that and so I'm
sitting here like all of these different
news outlet about different articles
that I want to write to them to get my
name out there plenty to do this to write
the book get accepted to be a regular
contributor to Psychology Today and
so what I decided to do when I
realized in my friendship research
is that what primes people to give.
And so being very giving being very
generous is in your best interest
because you'll never know when you
want something back from someone and
when they have evidence.
Given something like that to them they're
a lot more likely to want to hear you and
so being very generous with your
time I think is one of the ways
you network you don't try to
get something from someone
necessarily at the time in which you
need something that you're copping that
relationship all the time where
you're reaching out to them or
you're talking to them and making sure
that you know that like hey that this is
the relationship that I want to build
not just me trying to harvest you reap.
So I was reading this article
present copy today and
I read the book by the author it's called
How To Be yourself really good but
mostly Betty and I really liked
it was written so excessively
like story with research just kind of book
that I thought that I would write and so
what I did what I brought a Psychology
Today article called making friends and
I did really well and I cited her book and
I was like Hendrickson in the book
you know how to make a How To Be yourself
and then I put it on Twitter and
I had hair and so got press through
my article and then she reached
out to me if you'd like hey I like thank
you so much for talking about my pup and
your article I don't think you could
really love your book like I'm trying to
work on it but you and I could totally
see my book being like your book and I'm
going to talk about it when I read my book
and she's like you really want to hear
more about it was I was on there before
black girls I kept talking about friends
I made friends in adult and she was like
yes listen to that I think you have to
make it look like a big so much by
the way I'm looking for an agent so
if you want to like put me in touch with
their aid that that would be great and so
she ends up putting me in touch
with her a dad who works there that
is really great agency the 1st
agency I actually applied to you but
I never heard back but then she put me in
touch with them I get the referral and
then they're like yes we love
this idea marketable and so
that's all to say like my advice
networking is to be thinking about it and
making don't think about just trying to
get something out of someone think about
like I think like when networking even
you don't necessarily have to talk about.
Well and about jobs because it
when people know you at the person
that's when they want to give you research
back when they connect me they like
I know I know this person I know their
hobbies they know their interest they know
them as a dimensional human being and
where I am I help address them like
our story is what compels people and
even thinking about science can easily how
do we communicate science to get people to
change their behavior I realize
it's not all about that
it's about the story is about
the emotional connection that would be my
advice when it comes to networking as well
and I didn't talk a lot about policy but I
think these 2 have a lot more policy than
I think you'll be able to learn from them.
Just to become a true way of nappy change
because you had to decide what you were
going to do how did you get to last.
Yet.
So my biggest drive to get and
specifically year and
because I was actually playing for
academic issue was because I felt like
I wanted to use research for some purpose
I didn't really like I actually realized
that I had never read research who
are like what am I going to do differently
on behalf of this research Mike what
are the intelligence reading research to
inform another research idea and I'm not
I wasn't actually trained to do that and
I was just like this actually the point
of research for it to inform how to write
another academic research article like
there's actually some sort of ways
that we change our behavior that supposed
to happen on behalf of this research and
so that's why I was like really
policy the policies that we created
optimally should be informed by really
what better information do we have been
research to inform the policies we create
that affect so many different people and
so at the organization that I chose money
and talent corporation they're very data
driven they're doing we do international
projects that target global poverty and
so what we do is we're collecting
data along the way and
it's an iterative process where if
the data says we're screwing up and
people actually are in poverty actually
isn't decreasing along the way even though
we built a school even though we even like
to sneer even though we've got this well
then we can't quite fit because that
information is then used to inform some
sort of outcome and so I think I
say became really passionate and so
this is sort of the fusion of the 2 things
that I'm going through right now writing
this book and working in policy
is because this is wisdom to
me like I'm excited by reports because
I want to trust people when I get it by
me but I guess like others you know like
their own issues whatever I may have.
But I like I don't know like research
we know research isn't perfect right
people using I think all the time but
I think it's the closest
that we can get the things.
So on my day today we are at my
Millennium Challenge Corporation
they are ahead they are just starting to
build a social behavioral change branch
of the organization good it's been
a very strongly and economist model with
just like if we build this thing people
will use that people are very rational but
we know that we all know that eating right
and exercising is something that we should
do but rationally every day we don't
do it because there's more to it and
then there's the human factor human
element that we met and so for
me right now I'm going to be
helping on that team and so
later on in the year I get to go Mt going
to college and I'm only in Morocco and
go there conferences and so
what we're really doing right now honestly
is building more capacity for
the new and it's rolling out so
I'm really interested in science
communication of like I'll be our reporter
I mean reporting what we do so we can get
our happy people can know about it and
you know reputation so I'm easily going
on the strip and trying to report but
articles that we're going to publish
on our blog about the social behavioral
change in this is that I'm doing a lot
of reading I think at the early part of
developing working in the organization
it's just like you're going to study
in the organization for a while before you
can realize like what you can do certainly
with those was really interesting I think
my specific fellowship is all about
an entrepreneurial to be basically want
to analyze the organization figure out
where the gaps are and how that matches
with our expertise that takes a while but
I would be right now my job is more
like sitting back and observing and
figuring out what they call
a value which is where can I.
Remember.
So mining Catherine Johnson I go by Joe.
I am currently working at
the National Institute of Standards and
Technology which is in Gaithersburg and
the federal agency in it is
the most science be a science.
Federal agency so
they do a lot of nanotechnology and.
Highly scientific things
I'm a social scientist but
the things that Mr does I
don't really understand but
the how I got to miss them was also as
they play Tripoli at technology pulse.
So.
I got my background is in Tripoli Gigi
Women's Studies and also really just study
and I did a master's and then I worked for
2 years and nonprofit and then
I actually came back to the University
of Maryland and I worked as an admin
kind of person I was undergraduate advisor
graduate advisor sort of department catch
up person as I was trying to decide do
I want to go back to grad school but
I haven't really decided yes sure
I'll go back to grad school.
I'm really interested in the environment
so I wanted to do environmental
anthropology sort of using
the interest in the environment and
then a very qualitative research focus
you know on the community level and so
the research that I did here at
Maryland was related to resilience and
vulnerability to climate change
you know through coastal community
on the Chesapeake Bay And so
through that work Benchley I was I was
the project director for a little bit and
I really loved that work because they
got me out with the community and
really understanding what
are the problems that they perceive and
trying to change as you may know
I think contentious issue and
much of the community that we work with
out in the Eastern Shore didn't believe in
anthropogenically because climate
change and things they were willing
to talk about were a rotation and what.
It was a day to day things
that they experience or
you know from time to time that storms
into things and those really that's
what climate change is right sure it
may be worse in the future sure there
may be a tipping point for certain things
in that cause more catastrophic change but
on a fundamental level climate change is
nothing more than all the things that
are already dealing with just maybe
it could get next to no extent to
really building our capacity to talk
to them about the things that matter to
them in the way that it matters to them is
one of the strengths of anthropology but
it's also one of the strengths of going
into a community and and working with
people who may have a different sort of
world or background or ideas than you do.
So I really enjoyed that
community level research but
I was interested in also finding out
more from a top down perspective
how does how does this work you know how
do we come up with these rules that we
have on the federal level and
how does that influence the state level
I kind of got a view is that the bottom
up working with the community their
perspective about this but
I really want to understand more the talk.
So for that reason and because Tripoli
he's better than a duck at Maryland.
I went to this really fellowship.
And I was placed in an.
Interview process.
I won't get into a lot of detail but
it's chaotic and
basically do anywhere from $7.00 to
$20.00 interviews within a week and
then the organization you rank
organization and they rank you and
then there's this matchmaking
thing that happens
it's a black box you don't get to see
how it works anyway I ended up in and.
I talk to my supervisor today and
you know and
I was explaining that I was coming here I
was like I have to explain to them how I
got hired here how did I get hired here.
And the thing that he he sort of
said is well you didn't have any
background in earthquake and the thing
that I do now is that I work with
being engineers on quick engineering I
just have a background in engineering and
I don't I didn't have a background and.
But I had a background in
disasters in social science and
one of the think the building engineers
are struggling with not surprisingly
is we can build these buildings we
can tell you how to do this well but
we can't figure out how do
you get people to do that and
but it's mandatory or in the certain
cases when they when they have to do it.
So I was kind of getting a niche
that they wanted to go in
that was that was how that happens.
So in a day to day basis a lot of what I
do is turn email I'm going to meetings but
it's also trying to learn about
the field of 1st quick engineering and
trying to take social science and
play matchmaker so
trying to figure out how do
I you know Kate to engineers
a lot of the theory and method that
underlies what we do in social science
in a way that I don't have to go
into the history of science or
the history of theory or you know a lot
of these very technical things that we
learned from ph d. program but get them
to understand it in a way that they can.
Knowledge and use it and
that that's really a challenge to
explain to someone in the field that
you know you know a lot about but
our perspective you know in the field are
these are our current ways that we think
about humans and why humans do things or
this is why the way that
you think humans make decisions isn't
really the way that humans make decisions.
You have to have a nice way you
can't tell them they in Iraq or
you're stupid or you know and.
So I guess the way that I
do that is to try to adopt
a learning perspective and
so I constantly have to
be able to explain things true stories or
true examples through world examples and
that's interesting.
But some of the things that I work with.
First well there's a congressionally
mandated program the National Earthquake
other grid auction program and
the base at noon and
that's an interest in the effort that
Mr Reed bit and so it's federal agencies
looking at the problem of
mitigating risk to the general u.s.
public from earthquake and traditionally
they've been doing that in their Hylas so
u.s.g.s. does psychology missed
building engineering and
one cutting edge research and
beam as part of Japan disaster response or
some sort of education around it but
there's a lot of areas
we're not touching you
know in those $45.00 so.
I tried to influence the discussion and
what's going on and sort of where
we could have a bigger impact or we could
look in these different direction and
so far it is going well and their
interest isn't in what I have to say and.
Those kinds of things I wouldn't say that
I've had a tremendous impact yet but
I think the fact that I continue
to be asked to be at the table and
to share my experience means that there
is something there there is something to
do and so one of my challenges is
really to figure out how do I tell them
how how do we do this better but
I do it as a new
employee I do it as one of
the lower ranked employees so
there's always this sort of tension
between you know this is your
superior person and they're
supposed to tell you what to do but
if you're coming in with a different
knowledge than they are and
they have you don't have to educate
them about what it is you can do and
also build trust put them into
that they're willing to say
Ok I agree with what you're saying or
I'm willing to trust what you're
saying is the truth and we can go in these
different directions so that's kind of.
Unique I would say that's not something
that you can find everywhere it would
take a special supervisor in
order to be able to do that but.
Really the root is that they have
to be able to communicate well but
you ought to have to be able to
communicate well and that means that you
have to be able to talk not only
from your own perspective but
to understand what their perspective is
and to be able to sort of meditate around
these different positions that you have
and what are the different implications.
So 2 other examples of
the things that we work on after
certain natural disasters missed and for
constant pain and this historically
has been related more to building
engineering to see Ok there's
a tornado like Joplin and
a team to try to figure out what can we
learn to do building engineering better
to prevent the disaster from
occurring again in future so
I had to put after hurricane Michel
to Florida to interview with schools.
And cities there and then also in January
after the anchorage earthquake we went out
we went out there and we talked to some
people that rule in different places so
there's a building enchanting high but
then I'm also trying to focus on
highlighting the social side of things and
trying to figure out how do we translate
the best practices that people have.
And share that with others so
an example of that would be that.
Bankrupts school district had backpacks
ready to go or inspecting the building and
they also had a plan on how we're
going to prioritize these buildings.
And so those things.
Building engineers don't factor that into
how does recovery happen so then we have
to figure out how do we write that up how
can we improve on those types of things
and then I'm also involved in writing a
report to Congress on functional recovery
so historically earthquake building
engineering focused on life safety.
But people nowadays are interested in
being able to get back into the buildings
right away and to use them so
although a building may be designed so
that it doesn't fall down after
an earthquake it doesn't mean that it
has to be destroyed because it's
too damaged to be repaired for
example so
thinking about the new shift and
how it should change and how we look
at buildings and how we use them.
More into that later.
So I really enjoy Ok and.
I had the opportunity to stay on and so
I got hired there as a permanent bed.
And I really like it because they can
work on complex problems right and
I can work on it from multiple
different perspectives so.
Really I was able to stay in that job
because of the relationship that I
had built with my supervisor there but
also building relationships with
other people within the organization
to said yes she has something to
contribute even though she's not
an engineer you know we don't exactly
know what she does but she seems.
To.
Be for.
No I think it's always important
sort of like what you were saying.
About the giving people
like you just also have to
be willing to build relationships
with other people and
enough in the problem and
you have to make it natural It can't be.
Like you can tell when somebody
is trying to gain you.
Advice who are the policy career paths.
Policy has limited effectiveness
I think we we sort of we may put
too many eggs in the back yes we
have to do policy I think the thing that
we have to remember about policy is that.
You have to it is a complex system and
there's multiple perspectives and then
there are multiple interacting components
I think a lot of times we get so focused
on what is the culprit that we need to
write that's going to produce the carrot
or the stick that produces the end result
as it's really not that simple and
we we progressed so much beyond that and
our academic game we need to
remember that that's also true for
policy however in the political world
you have to have found by you have
to make it easy to understand you have to
make things simple so there's there's.
Some balance there.
All right so many mature about a lot of
your G.O.'s what most people call me and
hopefully I'll give a little bit of news
I'm marking the show in recession so
I am a research fellow in
the international organization called
the International Research is pretty.
What I do is quite different
from one person and do so
I kind of you are organizations being.
Academic like research for
a different job so.
I went into this organization
straight after God and
they're the reason that I tune this
path was that I felt like I was so
passionate doing research but
I was academic quality.
But I also wanted to make sure that it was
the result of the research for getting out
and and being useful to policymakers and
people who are actually operating in.
The other thing that I thought
was a huge benefit of working and
just like every which large that
you're not working in a back so
I felt like a lot of the time and I'm
a career I felt like I would be working by
myself I would be coming up with
my own ideas I would be you know
nurturing this idea into research papers
and publishing research papers which you
know there are benefits so that you have
to in the control of what you're doing.
In contrast with a place like f.p.
I work in teams almost 6 I'm never doing
anything by myself there may be times when
we're actually like I need to acquire some
skills to help working or to help
with the team but it's always a part.
Based Learning.
So we in general like building
that building it's nice.
Because of the way that the research and
it started to be read Graham's and
the grant money we acted
on research project.
It means that the research is a lot more
tied to what policymakers or the hard or
organizations want to know about.
So there's a lot well we
do we do 3rd a considerable
amount of effort in disseminating
results of research and
making sure that we also we know like
accenting you know that people are going
to be interested in it we're doing we're
never we're never we're never going to
take on a project that I'm
interested journal but people felt.
I felt like some of my traditional
work kind of skewed half way towards
the other direction so I always tell
myself answering advisor questions about
what the policy relevant to the research
with you know and it's grasping at straws.
And so I knew that that was
not comfortable with me and
I didn't really care.
So this was a way to ensure that I was
going to be working with others start to
think work they were doing and I was never
going to have to kind of battle to explain
why the research was doing useful why I
thought it could help make things better.
Than that what I do did that is I
think quite similar to what academics
do in development.
So very disparate I travel for
it I do field work I'm running
surveys I'm looking at
analyzing data I'm writing academic
papers and I'm writing reports I think.
Relative to what like an academic
development I'm not so do I do a lot more.
Trying to write reports but are some of
the problems which I thought were going to
the top be really easy because you
know you don't need the textbook but
actually I think it's actually much more
difficult than writing it 1st I think it's
I found it much simpler to use the jargon
that economic news without fully
being able to explain what I mean and
you know hand-waving can get you along.
That doesn't really fly if you're
trying to do something complicated.
Make it much more accessible to people
who don't read the same journals and
don't use the same jargon.
We were talking about.
Like that's one example of
everybody's Lakin's but
it's really really rooted and
that's you know
if I work in a field a lot of the people I
don't really need to think about when I'm
actually trying to explain things doesn't
we're going to simply think a lot harder.
As an economist in my grad school career
was mostly about developing tools that.
And it's a useful tool set but
it's not a tool a lot of people
who work in developing countries or who
work in part seem general understanding.
So I need to really kind
of a lot of emphasis.
Being the results of research
are more accessible.
To a broader audience.
But fortunately I got one
thing that I wasn't willing to
give when I when I finished at full I knew
that I wonder if you're doing it research
I don't want to feel like I'm doing lower
quality research just for the just so
that people would understand and
I felt like institutions are feeling right
now very much less so the people that I
work with also understand what we're
doing and there's never really.
There's never a time where people ask you
to dumb things down when you're actually
doing the research and
you're asked to make sure that you
understand what you're doing want
to explain to some adjustment.
But you're never asked the kind of
sacrifice in terms of the research quality
so that when we go for example when
we go into countries to try and
set up research projects.
It can be quite challenging to convince
people that they should be for
example running around much
control we do a lot of friends.
But the really hard thing to
explain to a practitioner who wants
to make sure that their policies and
to a many people.
And it takes a lot of explaining and.
About half a 10th of them actually work
when you're trying to convince them that
we're not telling you that you can offer
your services that we want you to be able
to reach such as many people we want we
want you to let us dictate where you offer
the services it's just about when and who
you're going to be in the service to and
eventually you'll reach the same number of
people and the benefit of this is that we
actually learn something about if they're
not willing to kind of commit the work
that is similarly rigorous we
can say a lot less about what
the program is actually doing for
the people and then we're working mostly.
They may believe that they're helping
people find them they may have
I'm sure that they're helping but
lives some people's lives but
we don't actually know for
example what that one
is more effective another mission
is a very relevant question.
So the ways that the the way that I
got into the 2nd work is kind of for
sure and I'm very centralized.
So everybody goes on the job market
you go to but literally one or
2 hotel 2 months maybe you go through
20 or to actually the property.
You sit in.
Waiting rooms and
like you could do the same or
better you said conduct interviews and
hotel rooms which lead to maybe not for
the 11 racial slur not a lot of it but
you would go to
20 interviews with different
situations academic government policy.
You meet with people you tell them but
your research you tell them about what
you're asking about may tell you a little
apparent situation and then you match
it's a little bit less formal than
what I think resend went through so
there's no like matching algorithms
matching people it's really just about
offers that are made and
offers that you will intercept.
I think.
Religious And
another job because you are in teams so
much there's more of an emphasis
on interpersonal skills so
I wouldn't say I don't consider myself
an actor or a trainee but I think that.
Some of my classmates I was more eager
to interact with other people in
a social setting and I think that
helped a lot for jobs and I'm not.
Just not an amateur
social Some of them are.
But when you're working in teams all
the time you really have to have
a higher threshold and
higher willingness to.
Spend time with the people and
get with the change that you're up.
To the rule of networking
career progression
I think that's a big what I just
mentioned a good part of networking.
Having the skills and the willingness
to go up to the you don't know on.
Top of that.
Is a big part of what I view as the
networking that's important for my job so
I'm not even talking about like
finding jobs or asking for things but
it's more just.
When you're working in a team it's really
important you get along with the other
team and frequently so in my eye to free
we have you know many economists but
there are also nutritionists there are
scientists and people who come from very
different backgrounds and similarly
when I'm working with people who are in
countries to policymakers are officials
if we only have very few background.
But there's this kind of this idea that I
need to understand kind of where they're
coming from and then you can help them
understand where I'm coming from so
that we can kind of arrive at all
policy that is either a compromise
between what I wanted and what they want
or or somehow we feel like will satisfy.
All of our goals they feel it but
and I think networking and
kind of being of the militias for
the people is a key part of doing.
So it's useful in that respect
in the full so my and again.
We have a lot of pressure.
And I do think that the risk character is
that person that really stood perfectly
when she was talking about networking
as being making fun but I do think.
In the world of writing grants if you're
friendly and work you've made friends with
people who are working in funny
organizations you're much more likely to.
Having lasting relationships and you know
having things in common with those people
who are at those organizations and also
having you know part of that relationship
is is that I need to do something and
you showing that you're you're
able to do it so that kind of like
once you've gotten your 1st than showing
that you're going to help through and.
Said you're going to do and
do the different hospice missions and
said you're into port and help
strengthen released with those fuckers.
So advice for student whatever shit.
So I think the biggest
thing about grad school.
The most important thing to grapple is for
you to really
focus on research into your budget for
selling the time but it's really true for
you if you want to go into policy I
think learning the subject matter that
you're getting into as well as you can is
super important and I think part of that
is what I was talking about earlier
where it's a lot harder to kind of.
To make what you're doing a subtle to
a broader audience then you would think so
you may know that you're doing but
explaining it to somebody else is.
So developing those skills and really
really focusing on understanding research
is important and the other thing that
I think is really beneficial that is
teaching I'm sure most of your working
as a special assistant I think that is
incredibly important if you want to work
and talk if you're doing that if you're
teaching undergrad to not using the same
jargon that other guy just enjoy.
And I think you learn from students and
I think.
In particular about how how you
can say different things than what
you can express and
that may have been really easy for
you in ways that are accessible to a
broader audience students are going to get
lucky people who you might face as
a target audience if you're working with.
The Rules.
Say that the universe with
the right people and events and
as I'm listening I would just
drop by how you present to
different phases of exiting
from grad school and
are in different positions
within the policy we're all even
though you're both AAA us fellers Merson
Joe you're really doing different work and
I know John and you said to me well wait a
minute I'm not out there making the policy
but I thought this is the other part
of policy that gets really excited for
many of our our doctoral students.
I was struck by how important being able
to communicate and work with other people
really is while being a scholar and
researcher that seems very common.
Before I open it up for questions
could you say a little bit about.
Some of the things that you were
thinking while you were making
the transition from your ph d. program so
what were you thinking career
wise were you thinking there.
Remember what it was like
because I know that for
our job students that transition
period feel very precious.
So can you go back in time and think about
what you were thinking about where you
were going to land and has it turned out
the way you thought it was going to.
The 1st question and
then we'll open it up.
Or true to.
Form.
Up a so I was you know an academic
I wanted to be an academic and
I don't think that a lot of my personality
does lend itself to be an academic.
And at the time I didn't
really consider anything
else which is why I would recommend
that you follow your curiosity
even when there is a certain path
that you can take that would lead you
exactly to where you think you want
to be because I don't think you know
where you want to be until your experience
because culture is literally half
of your enjoyment of your job right so
I think academia is there if you like
there's always pressure to take a job
you get it no matter where it is in.
New matter with the department it's
like if you send an air of desperation
which I don't think is
healthy like I think.
I think you need to and for
me this is heartbreak my guys are going to
get it executive job you got to get and
so but I mean I do really want to
live in the I love the staff knows that
I just really love living in d.c. And
so but I didn't feel like it was
acceptable for me to say living in d.c.
is more important to me than going into an
academic job and it should have been and
especially for people of color I have
to say that you have to let yourself be
important because there are people you can
go please even going America that are not
comfortable or safe for you to live
right I was living in Atlanta and
I thought people yelling things out of
me and so I just was not prepared for
what living in different places
in America was going to be like.
And so I think you need to let
yourself see your job placement
holistically it can be what you're
doing in the job of course matters.
Also your evaluation of what the culture
is going to be like can be just as
important we're talking about something I
asked you know it today that you totally
can date because right now I'm very much
struggling with having to be somewhere and
I think by leaving may
feel really little but
actually I feel like make
such a big difference and
here's someone who would like a like I
want to put my relationship 1st and I
want to have a job that flexible about my
relationship or I want to move somewhere
where my spouses are remembering our room
I think really is like not that be Ok for
you to like your internal compass is so
important about the whole process and
I feel like I was just who guarded with
advice and people pushing me instead of
me like hey what do you actually want to
do what Actually do you what are your
priorities here and I just I just
looking back I'm like I really
wish I gave myself to Billy
to tune into my intuition and
ask myself what is actually really
important for me not just from a job but
around all the other ways that a job next
year live in terms of we're going to live
in terms of what climate you're
going to be in every single day
potentially or if you're.
There Yet that's what I'm encouraging all
of you as you're figuring out what your
career is don't be rooted I
would say because so many p.c.
we tended to factors are going to expect
or effect or whatever job you're in it and
follow your curiosity because for me my
curiosity was I did the research in Haiti.
In Maryland have like international
grants for graduate students and
with the research of Haiti I did
research in Trinidad and Tobago and
now I work in international
development not because of.
Partially because of all the things
I did to get the academic job but
also because I had that international
experience where in some of my told me hey
that might help you become a better
writer doing that but now I
am not necessarily Prechter in the things
that you're curious about or the things
that you're going to come back to later
in life because they're the reason.
I wanted to go into the academic
route I enjoyed the pain and
I enjoyed working with communities and
so I didn't I didn't want to go like our
one or anything deeper crazy but
I sort of was interested in staying and
I think in the environment I always felt
very rich in an academic environment and
the learning and so that's just sort of
where I thought myself kind of being and
I think I remember having a meeting
with Susan and we did thing I don't know
if ever that assessment thing was
she's like well this interesting.
If.
Not going into academia and doing other
things and I said Well kind of but
not that seriously.
Anyway long story short I applied for
tenure track position.
When I was a grad student and
when I was a post-doc and
then also last year before or
getting the position and
I had a few interviews but
nothing worked out and so
I was like well I guess this isn't what
I'm supposed to be doing right now you
know either it's not for
me or it's not a for them and
so maybe I just need to
be learning other things.
So I think it's really
hard because when you're.
Here people safety and I think you have
to have this story to tell that you're so
I want to do this and I'm I want to do x.
y. and b. and this is my goal and
where I want to be in 5 years or in 20
years and if you don't have that narrative
somehow you're not driven enough or
you're not ambitious enough and
some people read that it being
you're not the right kind of
person that they want because they want
and ambitious and driven per cent.
And I think that thinking is so
harmful because.
You can still be you know someone who want
to contribute and here is effective and
you want to make progress in the world
without being ambitious in that sort of
health promotion way so that's something
that I have always struggled with.
So anyway I am just happy
that ended up where I am and
not it's not always the you can
plan it and then do it sort of.
Think.
Again I agree with everything except.
The one thing that I would add
that you guys are living in
maybe the best place to
explore other opportunities.
Really during summers you have to do
research you have other responsibilities
here maybe teaching but
there are so many institutions.
That are really really accessible
if you talk to your doctors.
That you can get experiences and see
whether some of these other options would
be a better sense because you think at
some point if it's a time consuming
process and you don't it's something
you're going to have to store all the.
Units you're in grad school for 10 years
you need to be able do everything.
So getting those experiences early and
trying out different things and
getting back to affect are so
close this year in
point is a really good idea at something
that I did and I'm I don't know
whether you get to that during summers or
like I'm sure you at a minimum
interactive other people that were in
government do sions or in politics.
To the institution and and
were able to questions about
what they were doing what they like and
I think that that kind of like trial and
error and interacting with the people who
are actually doing things that you're
thinking about is really on the way that
you were going to be able to learn and
figure out what you
would like to be doing.
So started this early to possibly have
most of you are close to finishing your
budget so the only picture you're
wondering what you need to know.
But there's still a little bit of time so
do that as much as you can.
Let's fix the questions.
Besides introduce yourself and
ask away I'm well and.
I program I.
Do so.
I get a couple of seconds.
So I work and such so
economics has some trust that I
like early stage for the sense.
I actually spent a lot of time working
on research fair research that was
maybe more polish or cultural than
the research that would then act but
I was working for my dissertation.
So that that's one example I
know that in my department.
Or students were at the world.
Or working for or
at the Fed like ever any kind of like
it's to hire the comms is that there
were people from and on there were.
3 There were some along to this and so
there were some of my in my
case it was and I could work.
Here but for most people they
were T.A.'s Marylander year and
in the summers they would get the summer
you know 12 month long paid internship.
To go work at the institution and
also to experience what it's like were.
A lot of them ended up honestly at
Internet because not working but
also because they were able
to get better permission.
I'm going to apply and there are some of
your same I heard if I seem to be out they
should be talking to people you've met
with me you know I talk about the sell
the time but do I think just that you
do information in your big guy or
career conversations you have
all the latitude to connect with
someone to the Maryland along and
say hey could be talk for 20 minutes.
Any of you saying you know if
a student reached out to and
try to arrange 15 minutes would you
feel like they're bothering you.
Yes Ok so
I have to hand out 2 brothers on the table
doing informational conversations live
trying to do is not when you're ready to
apply for jobs but to do it all along so
that you can be building relationships
gathering insight into the.
Next question or ahead.
Or.
Out of the really mom.
I would.
Definitely like being.
A Ph d. student in a post-doc because I
basically got to set my hours which meant
I could do some work and then go on a run
and do some work and then do my laundry
you know if I didn't have to be on
campus that day which is fantastic.
But on the other hand the pressure
of always having something to do
very taxing and I think it's even just
within like the past year I sort of like
you know like settled and become more
calm in my life because I don't have that
anxiety of it's doing I need to
be doing work right now and so
largely Now I go to work at $730.00
I come up I have every other
Friday yes there's an occasional late
meeting we have something in California or
yes there's a conference I have to travel
on a weekend day but generally it's quite.
Normal already ish hours
a week you know there is that
amount of work here to what you do to the
doctor because I know the notion of hours.
I need exhausting but well it is
respect I would say I probably do as
much work now as I did then I think.
You are less productive
when you're always working.
And when Ok And Sara got to be seen.
But that's just me.
After my mom retired and she was at home
all day she says I have no idea how I get
anything done like I do nothing and
I'm retired and I'm just.
Like we're balance where you are rich and
it's good I mean it's good and
bad I said I keep a 3 to 430 day are still
working is going to start after
Thanksgiving once a week it kills me now
to not be able to work from home honestly
I'm just like wow this is so hard.
I just feel like being somewhere pretty
hard giving up going on with my week is
like a big chunk of my leg so
I'm definitely still needs definite period
like a month into the cracking and
I'm like my gosh this is really tough but
I will say like having combined
hours is great I think for
me actually probably work as much for
my job as I did make because I was
working all day on the weekends to you
now the weekends are very great but you
know you also don't get like winter and
summer which I'm just like Is
this just an endless loop where.
It creaks me out a little bit but.
Yeah I'm still figuring it out
because I'm really early but
I would think that was something that
the job and you have to be careful.
But I sort of disaster like
the typical workday like for
you to figure out Ok how many hours
are people usually were here.
Even with my discover my position is
that I like it's a bit more academic and
more flexible in terms of working
schedules and sort of much we're talking
about this week and we're allowed to
telework a decent amount which we have
to clear with our supervisors because
we're in an international organization
people are trapped so
a lot of people travel you know for
usage of the time in that the sometimes
helpful is not like the same
benefit that have never become an office
for a day you know half the people are.
Not flexibility comes but some were a
little bit less contained to conventional
working hours I find myself working almost
always at my and frequently on weekends.
But that's kind of what I'm willing to
pay for the additional flexibility of
the people or to work from home and
continuing to do research but
I like best at sound the time when I
taught myself like trying to acquire new
skills that I'm interested in but
are also useful for my job but.
That are privately also gets buried.
And I look in the consulting when I was
in grad school and I was different.
But at the specific firm
that you're thinking about
I don't tend to click through so
I would I would check and
make sure I don't think any
of us are experiencing.
The tech So
we have a question that came in from.
You asking about the at the Unity with
others who are in experiment the magic and
some of you may have still a Ph d.
colleagues who are coming from that and
so how do they into the policy landscape
as you understand it and experience.
I recommend that you apply for
the triple at.
Policy fellowship which is for
people that are in the ins and
we have been at our organization
because you don't really understand how
your level of thinking can apply and
tell you are there though AAA asked if
you like it when we have a consistent
2nd year foul and terrible thing has
been like systems level thinking so
she's been basically like breaking down
assumptions that we have into like
a series a step in a series of questions
who are not making those assumptions and
so there's a lot of translatable
skill that you may have
even if it's not necessarily a physics
agency or a mathematics organization that
you don't even know that you have until
you're exposed to these organizations so
I mean I think in general public it's
really important to understand that you
have translated so when I'm sitting at
this interview from running child Corp
where I ended up they're kind of asking
me about my translatable skills and
they're telling me that like basically
our model is that we create.
Sort of start up on the ground in
the country that we work with and
we create a partnership so
it's like we have experts in the u.s.
and we have experts in the country
that we're working with and
they have been they kind of do all
the groundwork and so there can be
disagreements amongst us in the u.s.
in the piece the folks on the ground and
so I was sort of talking about well you
know in couple therapy where we were
with a couple we think about how we want
to think about the couple as a team and we
want to think about each person to think
about not what been my best interests but
what is in the best interests of this
couple overall because their solution
that would be able to work for the both of
us if they're if they're these are just
important as my own needs and
I was sort of like I think back in just
similarly apply to an organization like
you want to think more about women and
you want to think about less like this is
a competition or this is a conflict but
like I want to meet your needs and
I want to be Landis' to how we bounce
this you think that's an example and
I'm sure that like whatever field you're
in there are ways of thinking that
policy organizations can have and can use
and so much of this is figuring out what.
Yeah and I would say if.
I think when you're an undergrad and
you look for a job you go look for
jobs may say I have an English degree
I need a job they say they want
somebody that English degree and
great that's perfect.
But at the Ph d. level that may happen and
I think the reason that we all have
the jobs that we have it's because
we have Ph D.'s and
different discipline but
what we have to offer is not like
I'm not teaching the people at my
agency how to do applied environmental
anthropology you know but
those translatable skills I'm trying
to figure out how to apply and so
I think really fun exercises to
go find a job descriptions and
things that sound interesting right so
like Alec like
Alex Alex interested in
actually doing physics or
is Alex interested in promoting math and
physics education or
like figuring out what is the issue
that really drives you and
then finding jobs that is good and
then figure out how can you.
Add something to that or how can you
promote yourself as somebody who can have
something to add to that area so for those
who are in the scientists from sort of
a career development perspective what
generous thing is absolutely true that at
the Ph d. level it's not a direct want so
if you're even if you're an engineer and.
There are issues that are think about
those grants engineering challenges
there are think tanks and
nonprofit organizations that are dressing
the 10 great engineering
challenges right around fuel and
climate change and
beginning to think about
types of organizations that are addressing
the issues that how you can speak up.
Ducked under cover those positions and
although many people
find their jobs through networking
the big job boards like idealist
at least if you start reading Job
postings you start to open your mind up
to who are these potential employers and
so I would recommend if you're
not watching job ads right now
they start watching job that.
My boss always took out pay
something in the media and
how are you sure you don't
have an engineering degree.
Which is funny.
But what he really is I've tried
to take the time to figure out how
how that system works and
how can I speak authoritatively
on it even if I technically don't
know all the information and
as people see people you clearly all have
the intelligence to be able to learn
different fields in different issue and
topic than to just embrace that.
Time free Talk question.
And the question.
Is.
Always the one.
Thing.
I would say the most important thing is
to engage it it's not about what you say.
Do you just want to be able to initiate
and engage the hi my name it isn't.
Because that is what opens
up a conversation and
that is literally the artist's art.
I would say go in print so
you might be wondering like what the
secret to getting people to like you and
I was reading my book and I was really
looking into all the research and
what is the secret to getting people to
like you is it about being charismatic or
intelligent are particularly interesting
and no it wasn't according to all of
the research that I was writing the secret
to getting people to like you and
feel like that is to affirm that it's
to be genuinely interested in data and
so just by initiating with someone
you're showing interest in them
which makes you more interesting for them
because you're flattering them by doing so
being present in a conversation and
complimenting someone for
their strange like you want me to want
to know your community way like I think.
It's important to actually be
the type of person that looks for
things to like in another person
about them a book like there's this
medication called loving kind of
meditation it's just for that purpose so
when you interact with them it
sort of naturally come be like
I like the thing about the person or
the thing right about and so.
I think when you're engaging in
a networking conversation again be happy
about it be more about like can I get or
what am I interested in about this
rather than about like of course it's
important to promote yourself to do but
I think it's even more important
to like finding a relationship
to making someone else feel valued and
someone else feel that they matter.
And so even if you're doing your
informational interview be sure to stay
like hey this meant a lot for me this is
what different you're going to have in my
teacher career because I got
the opportunity to talk to you and
I am so grateful for that those are the
type of things that help Congress hide
their relationship so I want to remind
all the respectful of and I know some
of you knew we were going to end and
if you every big case you missed me
you know I owe me something visited
because then but
other interact I mean if I could ask and.
As we finish who I so humbled and
grateful I truly am for
your sharing your perspective.
Could mean please give our alumni
another round of applause.
