Welcome to this Week in
South Carolina.
I'm Gavin Jackson. In the midst
of ongoing pandemic, the
United States and South
Carolina have been
reacting to the death of
George Floyd, an unarmed
Black man who was killed
by a White Police Officer
in Minneapolis. There have been
protests across the state
and country, some peaceful
and some not.
We talked with U. S.
Senator Tim Scott
and Columbia Mayor Steve
Benjamin about these
protests, Police brutality
and how the country and
state moves forward.
Thousands of people
gathered at the South
Carolina State House
Saturday to protest the
death of George Floyd, the
unarmed Black man who was
killed in Police custody
in Minneapolis by a White
Police Officer who knelt
on his neck for more than
eight minutes
on May 25th. At the State
House, there were signs
including one that read,
'Please, I can't breathe'
the words George Floyd
uttered as he slowly died.
His final moments
captured on video have
led to widespread
condemnation, worldwide
protests and violent
altercations, as well as
important dialogue. I'm sick and
tired of people killing
us honestly. Once I saw George
Floyd died that was
that was way different than
every everything else honestly.
It made me realize I can be the
next person, my father
could be to be the next person,
my twin brother could be the
next person. my boyfriend
anybody. And we're not free yet.
We never will be free.
We will always be
roped up and chained and
murdered because of the way that
my skin is.
First of all, I go to USC
Columbia so this is my community
and I want to do what's right
and speak out what I believe and
also I have a brother who
is half Black and I see what he
has to go through when I'm with
him and how we get treated
differently when he's with us
and it's not right.
And I willing to stand up for
that. Well it's just
it seems like
we try to take steps forward
and all of a sudden things
happen to make the culture seem
to take a step back.
That is what I've seen.
We've just got to be vigilant
and we got to keep
pushing and do things
in decency and in order.
As long as we do things in
decency and in order,
I think we'll be okay.
What did we come for?
Police Accountability
What did we come for?
Police Accountability
Tensions were higher at
the Columbia
Police Department in downtown
Columbia where protesters
yelled at law enforcement
guarding the building.
You can hear water
bottles and other
items hitting officers and
protesters. Later, shots
were fired and Police cars
were set ablaze and a mob
attacked officers trying
to protect a person. A six
PM curfew was put into
effect and things
continued to escalate in
the nearby Vista.
A vibrant dining and
shopping district that law
enforcement now had to
systematically clear for
the next three hours.
Ya'll, the Police coming down.
The group that's here now has
nothing to do with the
group came out and stood
at that State House in that
sun and peacefully protested.
This is a different group.
There one...
this group here is not
going to be allowed
to take over Columbia.
There were extremely
volatile moments,
including this scene on
Assembly Street.
(yelling)
(bottle breaks and gunshot)
Law enforcement continued
to clear the area into
the evening using tear
gas and other methods to
get people out of
the Vista and enforce the
curfew and calm was
eventually restored in
Columbia, while destruction
continued in Charleston.
However, throughout the
remainder of the week,
protests across the state
continued to be peaceful,
as the state and nation
seek a way forward.
Now joining me is
Republican Senator Tim Scott
to discuss the events of
facing our state and our
country this week.
Senator thanks for
joining me.
It's good to be with you.
Thank you
for having me. Senator
I want to talk about
several things, I really want to
just bring this back to
George Floyd, the man who was
killed in Minneapolis
when a Police
Officer knelt on his neck for
more than eight minutes.
I want to
ask you about when
you saw that video, what your
thoughts were just tell me
how you felt
when you saw that
video for the first time.
I was sick to my stomach.
I could not believe that
I was once again watching
the death of an African
American male at the hand
of a law enforcement
officer. Unfortunately, my
first images was just
thinking back of
Walter Scott running away
from the law enforcement
officer that ultimately shot him
five times in the back.
And how little we
believed the situation
until we saw the
situation. And how often
we are confronted with
the fact that while the
vast majority, the
overwhelming majority of
law enforcement officers
are good people doing
their jobs wanting to get
home to their families,
there's just too
many incidents that
suggests and reinforces
the narrative of that
played out for the last
four plus decades of my
life that
there seems to be more
aggression and frankly
more violence against
African Americans in
that debt exchange.
And when you talk about
little has been done
when, except without the
change, without the
evidence of video, what
does that say about where
we are and that maybe
that you know a Black
man's word is not worth
as much as someone else's
word, unless there's video
to back it up
and just say, 'Hey! No he didn't
do anything wrong.
He was just out for a run!', for
example.
Well you're obviously talking
about Mr Arbury. The story is
pretty clear that he
was just jogging down the
street at one o'clock in
the afternoon. Two guys
in a pickup truck shot him dead
and six weeks later,
we didn't know about it
because the facts
were they had a video.
The video was kept
private it seems. And the
guy who, the
murderer was a former
Police Officer who worked
for the D.A. and the
relationship seemed to
play a very significant
role in that situation.
I also say that the
situation in the New York
city park is really
important for us to look
at. They call her Central Park
Karen or whatever
the call her, having the
instinct that she could
call the Police and
simply say that an African
American man was
threatening her life, gave
her the kind of power and
authority that makes the
most Black men shudder
and shake. Because they
know that when the law
enforcement officer shows
up in that situation, a
binary choice, he is going
to be in danger
and she is not.
How does that change then?
How do we finally change
those kinds of situations,
because that's what
it seems like is really at
the root of
a lot of these situations.
It's just
a White person's word is
against a Black person's
word. And it seems like
the White person's word
still has more weight.
Well, the
answers is it does and
unfortunately that's the
case the vast
majority of the time,
especially with where
matters of the most justice.
And so the short
answer is that we have to
have
more people talking about
this issue at the highest
levels. We have to have
better training for all
law enforcement officers
at the highest level. We
actually need not more
legislation though that
might be helpful but the
real thing we need is
investigate the heart. And
the only way you do that
is one person at a time.
and frankly the way that
we get there is for both
sides of the debate to
understand their power or
the lack there of in the
interactions. And that
takes a long term
strategy, not a meeting or
two, not a lunch or two, not
just well wishing that
literally making a
commitment to
walk in someone else's
footsteps for several
months so that you can
have an appreciation for
their world view that requires
Black
folks to do that with
cops, for law
enforcement officers to
do that with Black folks,
for people of good
conscience to do with
each other, especially
people who don't look
like them. So would you
say that the protests
right now the peaceful
protests as they are, are
accomplishing at least
some of that? Or getting
that dialogue
more to the forefront?
Because these protests are
something we really
haven't seen. You know,
it's not only nationwide,
but it's worldwide, essentially.
It is no doubt that
talking to my friends and
the majority community
have called me and texted
me saying, 'What can I do?' What
they keep telling me is
that the image
the video of George Floyd
really asking for his
mother at the end,
was hard to watch.
And for the first time,
they saw
something they had never
seen before. And they
wanted to do something. And
my short answer is
silence is not an answer.
It's not an approach.
I'm thankful that they're
calling and asking
for ways to make a
difference. It's recognizing
that you have the power
to be intentional about
the change that is
necessary. If you use that
power for change. It will
happen. It won't come from
just the voices of the
oppressed. It will come
from those folks who have
the freedom to see, the
freedom to
deny and to live their
lives and to be good
people as we would say it.
But when
those good people decide
to become intentional
about their actions and
their interactions and
their relationships, this
world will change and it
helps to have that
silent, I should say, non
violent protesters
showing us the way. It
reminds me of John Lewis
in the 60's. Having
served with John Lewis,
gave me a perspective
that you can't read about,
walking in his office and
talking to a living
legend. Him telling me
John saying to Tim
don't get bitter. Don't
let me poison fill
your heart. Don't be
distracted by people who
tell you that you should
be outraged. He said harness
that potential and make it
productive. What a
powerful lesson for me!
Basically, saying don't
destroy things. Don't riot!
But just to turn that
anger into something
productive because
unfortunately it seems like
we've been losing a lot
of the dialogue of this
conversation because of
destruction now taking
over the news a little
more than the message.
Yeah! There's no doubt
Negative news sells
better than positive
news. So the
violent protesters
maybe in the thousands
while the nonviolent
protesters are in the
tens of thousands, those
smaller groups are
getting far more
attention because it
becomes newsworthy. When
protests turned violent.
It's also news
worthy when it doesn't.
But the coverage is
always going to focus on
the outliner more than it
does the norm. And
thankfully the norm, the
nonviolent protesters
have changed this country
significantly over the
last fifty years. That's
one of the reasons why
I point out John Lewis,
because his willingness
to be beaten to within an
inch of his life by a law
enforcement at the
Pettis Bridge is one of
the reasons why I have
the freedom
and the opportunity to
run for public office in
our state. So there's a
lot of that has changed
because of the
non-violent protesters and if
we continue to watch
their actions, it points
us to the future.
The selfish violent
protesters I don't
consider them protesters.
The agitators, they are
distracters and they're
detracting from George
Floyd's death, that should be
the beginning of the
conversation and not
there's just a footnote.
We're switching to the
federal response and looking
at the President. Do
you think the President
is doing enough to quell
the situation in America? Do
you think he's helping to
bring people together? Or
what kind of suggestions
do you have for
the President at this point
in time?
Well, I've always had the
good fortune of talking
to the President
personally and directly.
And so I give him my
advice and don't have to
necessarily do it in an
interview. What I have
told the President is
that it's really important
to speak out on behalf
of George Floyd and
George Floyd's family. I
like what he starts
tweeting about justice
for the Floyd family,
justice for George Floyd. I
appreciate his questions
about the three officers
that have been recently
arrested. Before they were
arrested, he was telling
me that those
three need to be held
accountable just like the
person who had the knee
on the neck. So, the
President's
responsibility continues
to evolve. I think for
the most part it evolves
in the right direction.
And he has used some divisive
language you
taken some umbrage to, and
he's also had to
clear out peaceful
protesters in Lafayette
Square the other day. I'm
just wondering, do you
think that's the right
message to be sent in to
do a photo op at this
point. We've also even
heard from former Defense
Secretary, Jim Mattis
about his real big
concerns about the
President leading the
country at this point.
Yes I do. I take the president
at his word when
he said that he had no
idea what they did in
order to create the path
for him to walk across. I
think he was being
sincere with that
information. So
his goal and his desire
to bring the country
together is one of the
things I've emphasized as
well. And I hope it
continues on that path. Do
you have any thoughts about
that statement
from General Mattis
talking about Donald
Trump is the
first President in my lifetime
who does not try to
unite the American people does
not even pretend to try?
Do you feel that's an
accurate representation?
General Mattis
and I know two
different Donald Trumps
based on that
those comments. There's no
doubt about the
president's love
language is probably not
words of encouragement
all the time. Maybe it's
acts of service. It's
perhaps when you look at
the legislative
accomplishments that
we've had , whether support for
Historically
Black Colleges and
Universities, this
research on Sickle Cell
Anemia and other
opportunities zones, whether
it's quality
education, whether it's
help for heirs property,
the agenda that he has
pushed and signed into law
have been very helpful to
the minority communities.
So some of the tweets, I think
perhaps reflect
his counter punching,
counter puncher
nature and that's one of the
reasons why I have
spoken out about the need
for more constructive
dialogue. I have pointed
to those. But it's
important for us to
continue to look for ways
to work together. It's my
responsibility to get
things done and I am
thankful that when I call
the President with a
specific ask for under
represented communities,
whether that's South
Carolina or inner city
America, he says let's
have that conversation. And
we typically make
progress together.
And Senator with about a
minute left here, I just want to
ask you kind of a
big question. How do we
navigate this crossroads
where at, it seems like in
America? You know, we
have these protests going
on, there's racial
injustice continuing, we
have an ongoing pandemic,
an imminent
recession and then
these racial economic
disparities have really
been brought to light
even more so because of this
pandemic. How do you see
us moving forward?
What needs to be done.
How will you lead during this
difficult time going
forward?
Well I've made
several recommendations
to the administration and
I've seen that we've
started to put some skin
on the bone. One of the
things that I think about
when it comes to
healthcare when it comes to
opportunities in the work
force, as well as
the ability to provide
more education.
Connectivity is a big
issue. I'm pushing the
envelope around our
broadband because I think
it's really an important
part of connection. If you
want to be able to see
your doctor, you're in rural
South Carolina, it's
important to have
broadband connections, if
you want to educate your
child. Because you can't
send them, send him or her
back to school.
Broadband is important as
you want to look for a way to
Tele-work and 80
percent of African
Americans and Hispanics
cannot Tele-work. And you need
to have broadband and
connectivity. The other
thing I've talked about
is the importance of
tele-medicine, as well as
technology. On the
entrepreneurial front, I talk
about, I spoke with him about
access to capital,
training and resourcing
so that we have more
small businesses
frankly in rural America
as well as the inner cities. I
think what I've learned
is that whether your inner
city kid or a rural kid
maybe of a different
color, you face some of the
same challenges, some of
the same road blocks and so
when we start singing this
nation "as a single
nation under God and
indivisible" I think we
start making a lot of
progress. So my question
is what can I do? The
answer is be intentional
about your approach to
bridging the gap, by
understanding communities
that you are not from.
Fortunately as an African
American Republican, also
known as a unicorn, I have
a chance to understand
the world from two
different vantage points
at times. Very good. Senator
Tim Scott, Thank you very
much for joining us.
Yes, Sir!
And joining me now
to discuss the state
of affairs facing Columbia is
Mayor Steve Benjamin.
Mayor, thanks for joining us.
Again thank you for having me.
Mayor before we get into
the situation that happened
over this past week,
I just want to get
your thoughts on how
you felt when you saw the
death of George Floyd on that
videotape at the hands of
that White Police Officer?
Just what were your
emotions?
What were your thoughts when you
saw that happening?
I've...
the last several months to
be honest with you have
been incredibly painful, I
think for a number of
people.
You know, I'm much older than
you.
I'm officially 50 now.
So watching
the impact of
the pandemic on
communities of color,
watching older men that may have
hypertension or
diabetes or what have you,
you obviously if you're
an empathetic individual, you
stand in that place. And it's
difficult emotionally.
I was thinking unlike me, I
have family and loved
ones around me. Some people are
suffering in isolation.
To compound that with
literally seeing a man
having the life choked out
of him, I wept
several times last week.
My wife gave me space to
do so. I got my music. A
couple nights I got me a
glass of wine. and
I wept. I wept
for George Floyd and his family.
I wept for humanity.
I wept for whatever
experiences those
officers might have had
that allowed them to
disconnect themselves
with the fact that
another child of God
was there to meet that knee.
And I wept. I've been hard
pressed to find
a man or woman, at least
in my fairly wide circle of
influence and
relationships
that wasn't heartbroken.
And a lot of us still are.
I think America in many respects
is going through a significant
and emotional
upheaval as a result of
the vivid display of cruelty
and inhumanity in
Minneapolis. And we've got
to make sure we
harness that energy
towards actually doing
some good.
And we did see some of
that positive energy at
play on Saturday at the
State House.
We saw thousands of people,
Black and White, gathered just
to display that emotion
that you're talking about.
So many people share that
same emotion that feeling
of seeing George Floyd
dying that they felt they
needed to do something.
They went out and protested
and they unified. What were
your thoughts when you
saw those peaceful
protests happening. We'll talk
about other things that happened
that day.
But when you've
just saw this
initial peaceful protest, was
that hopeful to you? Were you
ever thinking that maybe
things could spiral? Or
was it just maybe this
time we're gonna keep it
peaceful and even though there
might be a lot of anger
and emotion, people are
going to get his stick to
using their words, instead
of you know destructive
force?
Sure. I had my first
rally and protest at the
State House,
when I was
18 years old, so 32
years ago.
I'm a huge believer that
active protests that
seeking redress for your
grievances from your government
is literally in the
DNA of the United States
of America. You know if
you want to take a sanitized
version, go back to the Boston
Tea Party and
the debates
around taxation without
representation. Throughout
the course of the history of
this great country the ability
for men and women and
children for that
matter to petition their
government, to
have the right to free
assembly, free speech
it's sacrosanct as to
who we are as a country.
So I've been to rallies as
as a public official, Mayor,
been as a cabinet secretary
I've been as law enforcement
but I started as a
protester. And I'm always
encouraged. Particularly, when I
hear younger voices, helping to
shape the debate.
I think last week and
intermediately leading up to the
Saturday protest,
again the chorus
of voices that we begin
to hear, some that we've
never heard before and
you talk about issues of
of social justice or racial
inequality were
chiming in. And that was
very encouraging. I
was feeling that we had a
moment where there was this
great synchronicity.
And that was manifesting itself
in Saturday
and then Saturday
afternoon happened.
And did that get overshadowed?
I mean, do you feel like
that the positivity
got lost because of the
destruction? You had cop cars
burning, you had shots fired.
What was it like that day
for you, what you were
witnessing and seeing that, such
a change from earlier in
the day?
It was a very
painful the moment.
I come out to
the peaceful March early.
I came out and passed out
water and masks. I just
tried to remind everyone
that we were indeed still in
the middle of a
pandemic.
And that we'd do whatever we
could to be socially
responsible, socially,
social distanced. And if you
couldn't at the very least
wear some type of
protective face wear.
So pass out
hundreds of masks and at least
dozens of bottles of water.
Then I went home. Went to
actually spend some time with
my family and watched
as the protests
then migrated over
to the Police Department.
And ran back downtown
to make sure that I was
able to
help our Chief of Police
and the other several law
enforcement officers do
their jobs
and get them civilian
leadership, that's not law
enforcement leadership,
and it was heartbreaking.
I wish I could
find more colorful vivid
words to articulate
a bit, but
it was heartbreaking. You
know when
you live in a city like ours,
some have been here
for just a few months.
Others have been here their
entire, about their whole lives
and families have been
here for sometime, very
different backgrounds, but
blessed to represent
people from every
one of the 194 sovereign
nations of the world,
live here in Columbia,
the metropolitan area.
I've been blessed to live
in this city. The city gave
me everything I have, from a
beautiful family
everything else. So to the
watch that manifestation
of that pain and hurt and
suffering turn to
violence, it was
heartbreaking if I had to
use one word. Do you think
Police used the
right tactics? We have
about two minutes left,
Mayor. I just wanna
get your thoughts on
how the Police broke
up crowds using certain
disbursement methods.
Do you think that was
appropriate?
Did you give them any special
instructions to do any?
Maybe give more
latitude to protesters?
What was it like to have that
those calls
be made?
The Officers made,
made a lot of tough calls
in action, which there
were, there was literally,
as you mentioned.
Not just, this just wasn't
graffiti, Police
cars burning with people being
assaulted, personal
property damage,
commercial property
damage. And as it was
going on, there were no
arrests. I mean,
eventually I made
the call to call the 6 PM
curfew and
ask them to disperse
the crowds. I wish I could
say that everything was done
perfectly. It wasn't. We don't
live in a perfect world.
But I do believe that
the men and women in law
enforcement did the very best
job they could under very
difficult circumstances.
The governor was on a
conference call
with the President and other
governors talking about how the
President was talking about
the need to be more
dominant, to really help
crack down on these
situations. I think he was
actually alluding to more of
the bad actors. The
Governor, our governor did
say that you know we did
see improvement in
Charleston. They started using
the National Guard on
Sunday evening and they
didn't really have any
incidents. Do you see that
as something necessary
to happen here in
Columbia?
Absolutely, not. No. We
don't
need the military on the
streets of Columbia.
I won't speak to the
President or the
Governor's position
on the issue.
I heard the Governor responded
to some things the President
said but on the tone and tenor
and
the substance of the
engagement we've heard from the
President so far, I disagree
with it. And Mayor, we have
about a minute left. Just
want to get your
thoughts on what
we do now. I saw you
talking to some protesters this
week. Things have
calmed down this week. There
will be more protests in the
future. What are you hearing
from these protesters?
And what are you doing?
I know
you've accomplished
some things in your tenure
to address some of these
inequalities. But what
are they saying
to you? We have made a
commitment in Columbia
to engage in 21st
century policing and
change the way that we
build a more accountable
Police Department,
transparent Police Department
that has Active Citizen
engagement and the best
law enforcement that we
could have. The engagement
with these young
people. I've been
impressed with them, very
impressed with
their ideas.
We're doing a lot of
things that they're
recommending but
there's always room for
improvement. So we made a
commitment that we're
going to continue to work
in dialogue on making
public
safety better here in
Columbia, South Carolina.
Gotcha. Thank you very
much Mayor for joining us.
You take care. To stay up to
date on South Carolina news,
check out the South
Carolina Lede podcast.
You can find it where ever you
find podcasts and
South CarolinaPublicRadio.org.
For
South Carolina ETV,
I'm Gavin Jackson. Be well,
South Carolina.
