PAUL JAY: Welcome back to The Real News Network.
This is the third in our series on the Congo.
Now joining us again is Kambale Musavuli.
He's the student coordinator and national
spokesman for the Friends of the Congo. Thanks
for joining us again.
KAMBALE MUSAVULI: Thank you.
JAY: If essentially what you're describing
from U.S. and U.K. and Canadian foreign policy
is essentially how to help our mining companies
and how to get the riches of the Congo out,
if that more or less characterizes the current
situation, what would you like to see?
MUSAVULI: Well, the people do not know that
this is happening. So what I want the people
to know first is to pressure the government
to change the policy, one, by stop supporting
dictators on the continent. It is not good
for business. You know, chaos like we just
shared in the previous segment does not allow
people to be able to sell the product to the
people. We do need the resources of the Congo,
but you do not have to kill the Congolese
to get to a shiny rock. You know, we could
care less what these rocks are. So putting
pressure on the governments of the West, specifically
the United States government, to stop the
policy of supporting strongmen. Second is
to hold the companies accountable. It's not
a mystery. It's not as [if] these companies,
we cannot find their names. We do know who
these companies are, because [crosstalk]
JAY: The mining companies, particularly.
MUSAVULI: Yes. It's been documented who are
these companies who gave rebels private planes,
build houses for them, make payments to them.
So we know that. What is the national [incompr.]
State Department is going to do about it?
Friends of the Earth and [incompr.] accountability
and development sent a letter to the State
Department [incompr.] Cabot and the OM Group
for what they were doing in the Congo. The
national [incompr.] did not respond on American
companies exploiting the Congolese. So holding
mining companies accountable, especially the
ones that's operating here in the US, will
also play a role.
JAY: And Canada is a big player in the mining
business.
MUSAVULI: Yes. But I always argue that the
Canadian mining companies are Americans. They
just have the office there.
JAY: Many of them.
MUSAVULI: Exactly. So they understand that
Canada is a safe haven for mining companies,
so they just move to Toronto to do that. Many
of the mining companies that were operating
in the Congo did that. And then they keep
changing the names. You know, it was called
American Mineral Fields, then changed to Adastra.
Today it's called First Quantum. And no one
will ever know First Quantum was American
Mineral Fields in the beginning. So the third
one is support of the people. That means simply
the West have to get out African affairs.
We do have internal problems, because you
see in my presentation I didn't talk about
corruption.
JAY: And you can't minimize the extent to
which African corruption was the consequence
of a Cold War which put these people in--put
kleptocracies into power.
MUSAVULI: Exactly. So a disengagement of the
West on African politics will actually help
all of us, because right now it's not all
of us who's benefiting, it's a small group
of mining companies and elitist people benefiting,
while the whole entire world suffers from
it. Just think about it. Congo could feed
the whole entire world until 2050, when the
world's population is 9 billion.
JAY: How could the Congo do that?
MUSAVULI: The agricultural capacity of the
Congo. There was a Belgian agronomist who
did a study of Congo's agricultural capacity
and found that we only use less than 5 percent
of our agricultural capacity. But that could
feed Somalia, which has a famine. But we're
not even seeing that. The Congo River could
provide electricity [crosstalk]
JAY: Well, as we said in the first segment,
I think--what was the number?--$24 trillion
of potential mineral wealth in the Congo.
MUSAVULI: Exactly. So the disengagement in
African politics will help. You know, the
assassination of Patrice Lumumba, Congo still
suffers from that action. The imposition of
a dictator, Congo still suffers from that.
The support of invasions of Rwanda and Uganda
by the U.S., Congo still suffers from that.
But if we can remove that external interference,
that give the Congolese a chance to be able
to deal with the internal issues.
JAY: Now, just sort of a subjectively, how
does this make you feel--which is a question
I rarely ask, how does something make you
feel--but the sense that five to six million
Congolese can be killed or die as a result
of war, mostly created in conditions by the
West,--
MUSAVULI: And some of them, I know them.
JAY: --and barely on the radar of public perception?
MUSAVULI: Yes. I mean, in the beginning, actually,
it was really disheartening. You know, you
start building this type of anger and say,
why the world does not know, why the world
doesn't care. But what I noticed very quickly
as I start sharing the news with people, any
person that I share with this information
wants to help. But the person who does not
want to help is the person on Capitol Hill,
who will give me defensive sentences, or even
in the State Department. The many off-records
meeting that we have there or on-the-record
meeting, whether we share with us that we
are doing this, we are collaborating, we are
coordinating and making these big statement.
And you wonder, what are you coordinating
when 2 million women are being raped in the
Congo? What are you negotiating when 6 million
people have died in the Congo? So we understand
that the government does not want to deal
with the situation in the Congo, because of
its foreign policy where it supports the nation
causing the chaos.
JAY: On the way to the interview, I was listening
to C-SPAN, and there were congressional hearings
by Senator Durbin being held on Africa. But
the question they were discussing was how
the United States can compete with China,
not about the millions of people that have
died and are still dying in the Congo and
throughout Africa.
MUSAVULI: And it was the same thing also at
the G-8 in 2010. You know, Congo was discussed
at the G-8. Did you know what they were discussing?
First Quantum losing the mining contract.
The first time the Congo is discussed at the
G-8 is not about the 6 million people dead
or the millions of women raped; the discussion
was how the Congolese government canceled
a mining contract of a Canadian company. And
the person who brought it to the G-8 was Stephen
Harper, the Canadian prime minister. And they
passed a resolution. The 2010 resolution talks
about how Congo should abide by international
rules of business.
JAY: Well, thanks for joining us.
MUSAVULI: Thank you.
JAY: So at The Real News we've made a decision,
which is we're going to start to cover the
Congo. And, in fact, we're going to very soon
launch a fundraising campaign to finance a
full-time journalist based in the Congo to
cover the Congo. And we're trying to have
two, three stories a week on the Congo. And
it's going to be our way of strengthening
and developing our coverage of Africa. So
if you're watching this and you want to help
us cover the Congo, you can send a donation,
and we're going to--and just put a note--we'll
have a place where you can say, apply this
to coverage of Africa. Thanks very much for
joining us.
MUSAVULI: Thank you.
JAY: And thank you for joining us on The Real
News Network.
