CHARLES: WELCOME BACK TO OUR FOX
BUSINESS SPECIAL TOWN HALL ON
CAPITALISM AND SOCIALISM.
BIANCA CUNNINGHAM AND RICHARD
WOLFF ARE ADVOCATING FOR
SOCIALISM.
HERMAN CAIN IS FIGHTING THE
CAPITALIST FIGHT.
LOU DOBBS IS KNOWN AS CAPITALIST
FIGHT ARE.
HOST OF "LOU DOBBS TONIGHT,"
7:00 P.M. HERE ON FBN.
NAMED TV'S REMERE BUSINESS
ANCHOR FROM
"THE WALL STREET JOURNAL."
GRADUATED IN HARVARD WITH A
DEGREE IN ECONOMICS.
GREW UP IN TEXAS, IDAHO.
SO GREAT TO HAVE YOU HERE.
>> AND TO BE WITH ALL OF YOU.
CHARLES: START WITH FIONA, WILL
GET IT STARTED IN SEGMENT.
HOW IS IT GOING?
>> HI.
CORPORATE EXECUTIVES ANSWER ONLY
TO THEMSELVES AND A FEW BASIC
STOCKHOLDERS MAKE BASIC ECONOMIC
DECISIONS THAT AFFECT MILLIONS
OF PEOPLE.
WHY WOULD WORKERS AND BENEFIT A
SYSTEM OF INPUT THAT WOULD
BENEFIT THEIR LIVES?
CHARLES: LET ME START WITH YOU.
YOU ORGANIZED WORKERS.
YOU WOULD HAVE WANTED -- YOU
WERE FIRED FOR DOING THAT?
>> I WAS FIRED FOR ORGANIZING,
YES.
CHARLES: DO YOU FEEL LIKE THAT
SYSTEM IS THAT WAY?
THERE IS HANDFUL OF PEOPLE
MAKING THE DECISIONS AND IT
WOULD BE BETTER?
>> CERTAINLY.
EVERY SINGLE YEAR I WORKED FOR
VERIZON EVERY SIX YEARS.
WORKED OFF COMMISSION STRUCTURE.
EVERY YEAR I WAS MAKING LESS AND
LESS MONEY.
THEY WERE MAKING ARBITRARY
DECISIONS THAT AFFECTED MY LIFE,
MY ABILITY TO PROVIDE FOR MY
FAMILY.
AND WE CAME TOGETHER AND
ORGANIZED, TO JOIN A UNION TO
FIGHT BACK AND WE WON BETTER
WAGES.
WE WON BETTER WORKING
CONDITIONS.
THAT IS EXACTLY THE SYSTEM WE'RE
TRYING TO MOVE TO.
THE FACT THAT PEOPLE ARE
RETALIATED AGAINST FOR USING
THEIR RIGHT FOR EXERCISING THEIR
RIGHTS TO ORGANIZE IS ONE OF THE
PROBLEMS THAT HAPPENS WHENEVER A
FEW PEOPLE AT THE TOP ARE ABLE
TO SET THE AGENDA IN THIS
COUNTRY.
[APPLAUSE]
CHARLES: LOU, ON TOP OF THAT,
THESE PEOPLE WERE PAYING
THEMSELVES OBSCENE AMOUNTS
MONEY.
ABIGAIL DISNEY IS RAILING
AGAINST DISNEY CEO MAKING
$65 MILLION A YEAR WHEN THE
AVERAGE WORKER IS MAKING 50,000.
>> I THINK THEY'RE RIGHT.
THE CEO PAY IS OUT OF LINE.
IT IS ABSOLUTELY AN ANOMALY
WITHIN AMERICAN HISTORY.
AND SINCE 1993, WHEN WE MADE
STOCK OPTIONS REPORTABLE BUT NOT
DEDUCTIBLE, WE HAVE, WE HAVE
CHANGED THE METRICS HERE.
THE WORKER, THE EMPLOYEE, IS
WATCHING MANAGEMENT SOAR IN
COMPENSATION WHILE WORKERS HAVE,
JUST A DISADVANTAGE OF PART OF
THAT RATIO.
IT SHOULD BE MUCH, MUCH LESS
THAN 500 TO ONE.
HISTORICALLY THE NUMBER IS
ANYWHERE FROM 20 TO 25 TIMES AS
MUCH.
AN THAT HAS TO BE ADDRESSED.
IT SHOULD BE ADDRESSED BY THE
STAKEHOLDERS, INCLUDING THE
PEOPLE THAT OWN THE COMPANIES,
THAT IS, SHAREHOLDERS.
THE IDEA IT IS AN IN ALIGNMENT
BETWEEN SHAREHOLDERS AND
MANAGEMENT IS JUST SPECIOUS
NONSENSE.
CHARLES: RICHARD, YOU TALKED
ABOUT EVERYONE AT THE
CORPORATIONS HAVING A VOICE.
WOULD THAT ACTUALLY WORK AS
WELL?
WOULDN'T THERE BE CHAOS?
YOU DO NEED SOME PRECISE
DECISION MAKING?
>> THE MOST SUCCESSFUL ECONOMY
IN EUROPE IS GERMANY.
FOR THE LAST 30 YEARS GERMAN LAW
PRESCRIBED THE FOLLOWING, IF IT
SHOCKS YOU, TELLS YOU SOMETHING
ABOUT THE MEDIA THAT SUBJECT TO
IN THIS COUNTRY.
THE LAW IN PERMANENT ANY IS THE
FOLLOWING.
EVERYBODY CORPORATION WITH 2,000
OR MORE WORKERS MUST PUT 49% OF
THE PEOPLE ON THE BOARD OF
DIRECTORS ELECTED BY THE
WORKERS.
IF YOU HAVE LESS THAN 2,000, YOU
HAVE TO HAVE 25%.
THAT PUTS A WORKERS
REPRESENTATIVE ON EVERY BOARD OF
DIRECTORS, MULTIPLES.
THEY ARE PARTICIPATING IN THE
PLANNING, THEY KNOW WHAT IS
BEING DONE.
UNLESS SECRET EFFORTS ARE MADE
TO GO AROUND THEM.
WHICH ARE PROSCRIBED IN GERMAN
LAW?
HAS IT PRODUCED CHAOS IN
GERMANY?
NOT AT ALL.
THE RECOVER FROM FROM THE 2018
2018 -- 2008 DEPRESSION WAS MUCH
BETTER THAN OURS.
THE NOTION YOU CAN'T HAVE
WORKERS PARTICIPATING IS
CANCELED BY NOT ABSTRACT
DISCUSSIONS THEORY BY REALITY
WHAT OTHER CAPITALIST COUNTRIES
MANAGED TO DO BUT WE'RE JUST FAR
BEHIND.
CHARLES: LOU IS THAT ONE EXTREME
TO ANOTHER?
>> I'M SORRY?
CHARLES: WOULD THAT GO FROM ONE
EXTREME TO ANOTHER?
>> I DON'T KNOW THAT EVEN THE
PLACE THAT ACTUALLY EXISTS IN
GERMANY.
IN POINT OF FACT THEY HAVE
EXTRAORDINARY SOCIAL COSTS
IMPEDE THEIR ECONOMIC GROWTH.
THEY HAVE A MERCANTILIST TRADE
ECONOMY.
THEY LIVE IN LARGE MEASURE ON
U.S. DEFICITS AND THEIR
SURPLUSES AS A RESULT.
GERMANY IS NOT A MODEL FOR
ECONOMIC GROWTH VITALITY OR
INNOVATION.
IT'S A MODEL FOR MERCANTILISM
AND INTERNATIONAL TRADE.
IT IS HARDLY A MODEL IN MY
OPINION FOR VIBRANT PROGRESSIVE
ECONOMY.
>> LET ME GIVE YOU AN EXAMPLE.
CHARLES: WE'RE RUNNING OUT OF
TIME, RICHARD.
WE WANT TO GET ANOTHER QUESTION
IN.
IN FACT GO TO MICHAEL.
HE HAS THE NEXT QUESTION,
MICHAEL.
>> CAN WE RECOGNIZE THERE ARE
HUMAN RIGHTS LIKE EDUCATION,
HEALTH CARE, HOUSING, FOOD?
THERE SHOULD BE AVAILABLE TO
EVERYONE, NOT JUST TO THOSE WHO
CAN AFFORD THEM, RECOGNIZING
THESE EXIST AS RIGHTS IN THIS
COUNTRY, NOT IN CUBA OR
VENEZUELA ONLY BECAUSE PEOPLE
FOUGHT FOR THEM, FOR PUBLIC
EDUCATION, FOR HOUSING, FOR
NATIONAL PARKS, PUBLIC
LIBRARIES, SOCIALISTS FOUGHT FOR
THEM LONG AND HARD?
[APPLAUSE]
CHARLES: HERMAN?
>> I WOULD AGREE WITH YOU THOSE
ARE SOME BASIC HUMAN RIGHTS THAT
PEOPLE ARE ENTITLED TO AND, AS
YOU KNOW, OUR PUBLIC SCHOOL
SYSTEM PROVIDES FREE, NOT FREE,
EDUCATION PAID FOR WITH TAXPAYER
DOLLARS.
WHAT SOME OF THE SOCIALISTS WANT
TO DO IS MOVE THAT UP ANOTHER
LEVEL WHEN AT THE SAME TIME,
WHEN AT THE SAME TIME THERE ARE
ISSUES JUST K THROUGH 12 BECAUSE
OF SOME OF THE WAYS THAT THINGS
ARE DONE.
MANY PEOPLE TAKE THEIR KIDS OUT
OF PUBLIC SCHOOLS BECAUSE THEY
SEE SOME OF THE INEQUITIES
THERE.
I DON'T DISAGREE WITH YOU THAT
THOSE ARE SOME OF THE BASIC
RIGHTS THAT EVERYBODY OUGHT TO
BE ENTITLED TO.
I JUST DON'T BELIEVE GOVERNMENT
OUGHT TO BE THE ONE TO PAY FOR
ALL OF IT.
[APPLAUSE]
>> I CAN RESPOND TO THE NOTION
THAT UAs AT THE SAME TIME I
RESPOND TO LOU.
ONE OF THE THINGS GERMANY DOES
WITH ITS DOLLARS IS DO THE
FOLLOWING.
ALL COSTS OF COLLEGE IN GERMANY,
RIGHT NOW, ARE ZERO.
NO TUITION.
NO FEES.
NOT ONLY FOR GERMAN CITIZENS BUT
FOR ANYONE IN THIS ROOM WHO WENT
TO GERMANY TO TAKE A COLLEGE
CAREER COULD GO THERE AND THEY
WOULDN'T BE REQUIRED TO PAY
ANYTHING.
WHY?
BECAUSE IN GERMANY THE IDEA IS
THE BEST WAY TO DEVELOP THE
PRODUCTIVITY, AND THE INNOVATION
AND THE GROWTH IS THIS GIVE
EVERYBODY A CHANCE TO A FREE
EDUCATION.
AND THEY'RE DOING REAL WELL WITH
IT.
THEY WOULDN'T RECOGNIZE THE
DESCRIPTION OF GERMANY.
THEY FOUGHT FOR THESE THINGS.
EVEN CONSERVATIVE GOVERNMENT OF
THE MRS. MERKEL COULD NOT RESIST
WHAT A POWERFUL, SOCIALIST AND
LABOR MOVEMENT INSISTED BE DONE.
CHARLES: LOU?
[APPLAUSE]
>> THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS A
HUMAN RIGHT.
THERE ARE, AS YOU KNOW YOU
OUTLINED YOURSELF, THERE ARE
RIGHTS THIS COUNTRY HAS CREATED
IN ITS CONSTITUTION AND THAT
HAVE BEEN FOUGHT FOR BY THREW
OUT HISTORY.
THERE IS NO EXCEPTION, THERE IS
NO RIGHT THAT IS SIMPLY BECAUSE
WE ARRIVED ON THIS CONTINENT.
THERE IS NO RIGHT JUST BECAUSE
WE HAPPEN TO BE HUMAN BEINGS.
AND THAT IS WHY THERE IS QUITE A
DISPARITY IN THE LIVES AND
LIVELIHOODS OF PEOPLE ALL AROUND
THE GLOBE.
IT SHOULD MAKE IT MORE IMPORTANT
FOR EVERYONE TO UNDERSTAND WHAT
IS WORKING AND WHAT IS NOT
WORKING.
NOT ONLY IN THIS COUNTRY, BUT IN
THIS HEMISPHERE AND AROUND THE
WORLD.
WE KNOW WHAT ISN'T WORKING.
AND THAT IS SOCIALISM.
THERE ARE RARE EXCEPTIONS.
[APPLAUSE]
BUT THIS ECONOMY, THERE IS NO
CLOSE SECOND TO WHAT HAS BEEN
ACHIEVED BY AMERICAN CAPITALISM.
AMERICAN FREE ENTERPRISE
CAPITALISM, THAT HAS NOT ONLY
CREATED THE WORLD'S ONLY
SUPERPOWER, THE WEALTHIEST
COUNTRY ON EARTH, BUT THE MOST
POWERFUL ECONOMICALLY,
MILITARILY, IN ANY OTHER WAY YOU
WISH TO APPLY A METRIC.
THIS IS CAPITALISM.
IT WORKS.
THEN THERE IS VENEZUELA.
THERE IS CUBA.
AND THERE IS THIS CHINA.
CHINA BY THE WAY IS A COUNTRY
AMERICA BUILT.
NOT ALWAYS WILLING.
[APPLAUSE]
CHARLES: BIANCA, DO YOU WORRY IF
THE GOVERNMENT DID EVERYTHING,
WE WOULDN'T HAVE THE IMPETUS TO
DO THE THINGS THAT MAKE US
GREAT?
WE WOULD NEVER ACHIEVE
INDIVIDUAL GREATNESS IF THE
GOVERNMENT DID EVERYTHING FOR
US?
>> WHEN WE LOOK AT COUNTRIES
THAT PROVIDE BASIC HUMAN NEEDS
TO THE PEOPLE, WHAT THEY SEE
THEY HAVE THE OPPORTUNITY TO
PURSUE THE CAREER PATH THAT
MAKES THEM HAPPY, SKILLSETS, AS
OPPOSED PEOPLE HERE ARE STUCK IN
DEAD END JOBS, THEY ARE AFRAID
OF LOSING THEIR HEALTH CARE.
THEY CAN'T TRANSITION TO
DIFFERENT CAREER PATHS.
THEY ALSO CAN'T START SMALL
BUSINESSES BECAUSE THEY CAN'T
NOT AFFORD TO GO WITHOUT HEALTH
INSURANCE.
WHAT WE'RE TRYING TO ACHIEVE IS
SYSTEM WHERE PEOPLE HAVE THE
FREEDOM TO PURSUE WHAT THEY'RE
GOOD AT, PASSIONATE ABOUT.
WHAT WE SEE THAT PEOPLE WORK
HARDER TO GROW THE ECONOMY WHEN
EVER THEY'RE DOING SOMETHING
THAT THEY'RE PASSIONATE ABOUT.
[APPLAUSE]
>> VERY QUICK.
NUMBER ONE YOU NEVER HEAR THE
SOCIALISTS TALK ABOUT COSTS AN
THEY DON'T TALK ABOUT RISKS.
THEY NEVER TALK ABOUT COSTS AND
NEVER TASK ABOUT RISKS.
THOSE TWO WORDS DON'T APPEAR IN
THE NARRATIVE ANYWHERE.
WHEN SOMEBODY ASKED THE
QUESTION, WHAT IS GOING TO COST,
THEY SHIFTED SUBJECT.
THEY WANT TO IGNORE THE FACT
THOSE THINGS ARE UNAFFORDABLE.
[APPLAUSE]
>> LET ME QUOTE MILTON FRIEDMAN
ONE MOMENT.
HE SAID, SO APTLY I THINK THE
MOST BRILLIANT ECONOMIST OF MY
GENERATION.
HE SAID THAT THOSE WHO WANT
FREEDOM AND EQUALITY, AND MAKE
THAT A PRIORITY, ARE LIKELY TO
HAVE NEITHER.
THOSE WHO WOULD PUT EQUALITY
ABOVE FREEDOM WILL CERTAINLY
LOSE FREEDOM.
AND THOSE WHO PUT FREEDOM ABOVE
EQUALITY, WILL HAVE THE
OPPORTUNITY FOR BOTH.
CHARLES: WE HAVE LEAVE
OPPORTUNITY THERE.
IT WENT VERY FAST.
I HOPE EVERYONE FOUND THE
IMPORTANT DISCUSSION HELPFUL,
INFORMATIVE.
I WANT TO THANK EVERYONE AT HOME
FOR WATCHING.
VERY SPECIAL THANKS TO OUR
WONDERFUL AUDIENCE.
THANK YOU ALL VERY MUCH.
OF COURSE WANT TO SAY THANK YOU
TO RICHARD WOLFF, BIANCA
CUNNINGHAM, HERMAN CAIN,
LOU DOBBS, KENNEDY FROM EARLIER,
NEIL CAVUTO, STUART VARNEY.
I'LL CHARLES PAYNE.
SEE YOU BACK HERE ON
"MAKING MONEY," 2:00 P.M.
EASTERN TIME.
WE WILL CONTINUE THIS
