Welcome to the Herbert Hoover
Presidential Library Museum
I'm Tom Schwartz the director and I
thank you for joining us to remember all
who served the call of the country in
this Veterans Day program. This program,
and many like it, are made possible by
the Hoover Presidential Foundation. If
you're not a member I hope you'll pick
up a membership brochure of the front
desk and consider joining. At this time
please silence all electronic devices and
there'll be an opportunity to purchase
books by the author following the talk.
Tim Pletkovich is an author as well as
a man of many talents. He spent 25 years
in the classroom as a secondary school
teacher in New York and Illinois. He
also served as a baseball scout for the
Chicago Cubs and later as an in-studio
analyst covering the Boston Red Sox for
WADT radio in Marshfield, Massachusetts.
In a series of interviews with World War
two veterans Pletkovich learned and
many were sons of fathers who have
fought the Civil War 80 years earlier
which became the basis for this first
book and the subject of today's talk.
Most of us would not connect the two
since they are so distant in time from
one another. Here to provide all the
fascinating details of these lives is
Tim Pletkovich. (Applause)
Lynn, is that good? Yeah. Okay great. Tom, actually we could even go a step further
than that as far as making the
connection between the Civil War fathers
and the sons and daughters you served in
World War Two. We actually found one
gentleman whose dad  served in an Ohio
regiment during the Civil War it was a
fighter pilot in Vietnam. So, in that case,
we're looking at two generations
fighting in wars one hundred years apart.
I noticed somebody in the audience is
from Wisconsin, right? Or maybe not in the
theater. Okay I noticed there was a license,
a Wisconsin license plate in the car
because the book has a very big
Midwestern, especially Wisconsin,
connection and we're going to talk about
this a little bit later on that I just
wanted to introduce it to you also right
in the beginning. As you can imagine
there probably were some people who are
pretty skeptical about this and thinking
how could it possibly be that you could
have people alive today whose dads
fought in the Civil War?
And yeah you're kind of nodding thinking
oh my gosh how could that be?
So, one of the graphic arts people with
the publishing company who did the book
for us contacted me one day and he said
you know Tim you might have a little bit
of a dilemma with this trying to really
convince those people who might be
doubters. So he said, "for the cover jacket
of the book why don't we try and find
the father-son combination with the most
striking resemblance." So they ended up
using this gentleman who was a Wisconsin
vet. Some of you who might be Civil War
aficionados have heard of the Second
Wisconsin Volunteer Infantry. It was the
first three year regiment to be formed
in the United States. Very very early in
the embryonic stages of the war, it
became part of a brigade which was known
as the "Iron Brigade" or the "Black Hat
Brigade." And they were in all the major
battles the first two and a half years
of the war. They ended up being decimated
at Gettysburg. And they did for all
intents and purposes did not exist after
Gettysburg. But this gentleman was
one of the early members of the Second
Wisconsin Volunteers. He's pictured in
1862.
This is his youngest son who is pictured
in his Army Air Corps uniform in 1942.
Has anyone figured out yet how could how
this could be? Anyone with any ideas? Yes, ma'am.
"Young wives." Well yeah they were young wives. But but
there was there was another part of
which was even more important. "Long life?" Long lives by whom, Lynn?  "The men." The men.
Absolutely. In this gentleman's case this William Upham, the one who served with
the Second Wisconsin Volunteers and who
became Governor of Wisconsin after the
Civil War he did not become a father
biologically until he was 75 years old. (Audience - wow)
His first wife could not have children
she expired in 1912. And at the time he
was 71. Two years after that he remarried
in 1914 at the age of 73. He and his wife
didn't want to rush into anything so
they waited two years before Will, Jr.
was born in 1916. And then five years
after that, because you know, once again
you'd like to spread your children a
little bit. You don't want to have them
all together. Five years after that this
gentleman Fritz was born in 1921. So, dad
is pictured here in 1862 in his Army
Cadet uniform at the age of 21. Fritz is
pictured here in his Army Cadet uniform - In his Army Air Corps uniform in
1942, also at age 21
So that means dad was born in 1841
and the son was born in 1921. And at the
conclusion of the program we're  --
National Geographic was nice enough to
do a video on the book a couple of years
ago, and we're going to watch this video
clip in which Fritz
talks about his dad's first meeting with
President Lincoln. That was how he made
it to West Point. His dad had multiple
visits with Lincoln during the war and
he's going to talk about his dad
first - Isn't that amazing to think
somebody was alive a few months ago to
have a video made by National Geographic
somebody who's dead
knew President Lincoln but this gets even
crazier, because after the Civil War
after he graduated from the Academy in
1866 - of course you know, you have to serve your
obligatory four years in the American
Army. Well after already having met Lincoln on
multiple occasions, he gets assigned to a
place called Fort Monroe, Virginia where
who was Lincoln's counterpart in the War? "Davis" Jefferson Davis man was being
interned at this Fort Monroe in Virginia. Guess who served guard duty on 12-hour
shifts for a six-month period over
Jefferson Davis? Will Upham. So, not
only did he know President Lincoln, he
came to know Jefferson Davis intimately.
And it just amazes me when you think,
Tom maybe you can give me a figure for
this, how many children were sired how
many children were fathered by Union
veterans or we could just say by Civil
War veterans you think about all the
millions who would have been sired by
them and the fact that out of the few
who are still living because there
aren't many now probably probably about
a dozen maybe to a dozen and a half tops
out of these who are remaining one would
be someone whose dad knew both President
Lincoln and Jefferson Davis. I think
the odds of that are phenomenal. Let
me tell you a little bit about how this
project started because it all was a
very serendipitous occurrence. I used to
be a middle school teacher in Peoria,
Illinois and I used to belong to an
organization called Sons of Union
Veterans of the Civil War. Some of you
might remember I don't think anyone here
would be old enough but some of you are
going to know about the organization
largely to which so many of the Union
veterans belong after the Civil War and
that organization was called the Grand
Army of the Republic
it was a fraternal order to which they
belong. There were other fraternal orders to which the Union veterans would
belong to. There was one for instance
called Union Veterans Legion, another one
Union Veterans League, another one Union
Veterans Union. And and their purpose was
multi-purpose the reason for having
these organizations. One, as you can
imagine, not having any programs Lynn,
that would have been available at that
time for returning veterans you know the
way that we do now. Because you know
these guys had to assimilate back into
society pretty quickly too. That was a
difficult thing not having any any any
any any programs available for them. So
it was very important for them to be
able to meet with their old comrades
from the Civil War on either a a weekly
basis or at least on it on a twice
monthly basis. And this is what these
fraternal orders provided. The
organization was also very very strong,
especially at the beginning, in helping
to secure pensions for these different
veterans who had served in the
Union Army. And this might shock you to
find this out 80% four-fifths of all
Union veterans ended up becoming
pensioners. And in those cases for those who
have died their families became the
recipients of their pension monies. But
just think about that you know there
were over two million Union veterans you
know serving in the Civil War and to
think that 80% of them so we're looking
at more than a million and a half make
1.6 million maybe more than that people
who are the recipients of these pension
monies in the years after the Civil War.
So the Grand Army of the Republic played
a very very instrumental role in helping
these folks to secure these pensions.
Everyone in the book there are eight
families in the book. All eight Union veterans were all pensioners. Now
you might be thinking too well how could
that be that 80% of the people who
served in the Union Army became sick or
injured you know during the war? And my
answer to that would be, there was some pension fraud that
went on there's no question about that. But these pensions also just proved to
be invaluable. I was just thinking
about one of the families of the book
Tom a gentleman who was from after the
war he resided in Northwest Arkansas,
in the Ozarks.This gentleman fathered
five children after the age of 71, the
youngest whom he sired when he was 82. And this gentleman had lost a leg as a
result of the war and so he was
receiving a full disability pension in
1930. He lived until 1933, so that pension
was very very important. When he when he
expired in 1933 the pension monies
didn't stop because of course they ended
up going to his minors those children
whom he had fathered. And they received the
pension benefits until they reached the
age of 16. And then when they were 16 the
pension monies were cut off the
government passed federal legislation at
some point
early in the 20th century because as you
can imagine this was becoming a little
enticing to some of the women who were
indigent to think you know if I can have
if I could marry an old Civil War vet I
will at least be provided a pension
because if there was no Social Security
at that time. This was the forerunner to
Social Security. And so in this veteran's
case, for this woman, she was 27 at the
time that they married he was 71 and so
of course when he expired the children
became the beneficiaries of the pension
monies. She could not collect on her
pension monies until she reached the age
of 60 and that was what the government
stipulated in hopes that this would
deter young women from marrying these
older men. What is so neat about this
story though this particular woman this
Mrs. Poole lived until 1990 she was the
last civil war widow living in Missouri
at the time. So she's still collected on
her pension money for almost 42 years! So
she made out pretty well. But anyway I
mentioned that I used to belong to an
organization called Sons of Union
Veterans of the Civil War and that this organization
carried on the torch after the last
member of the Grand Army of the Republic
succumbed and that would have been back
in 1956. I was giving a presentation over
in Galesburg Illinois not too long ago
and when I mentioned this last union
veteran passing away in 1956 this
gentleman raised his hand he goes, "I met
that gentleman, his name was Albert Woolson." I said well that's right. I said how did
you know about him? And he said, "Well," he said, "Mr. Woolson was from the
Duluth Superior Area where where I came
from."
And he said, "Every year at the beginning
of the winter season," he said. This would
have this would have been the day after
Thanksgiving so what today we would call
Black Friday, there was a huge carnival
that would take place in the Duluth
Superior Area every year. And they would have a
parade replete with all the local
dignitaries, and the state dignitaries,
coming by waving you know sitting on the
floats. He said, "that's how I got to see
Mr. Woolson." And and then he said then he
kind of backtracked he said, "well I
didn't get to see him real well." And I
said, "wait a minute you just told me you saw him, so explain this to me."
And he said, "well here's the deal" he said, "when I saw Mr. Woolson it was about 1953." And he
said, "at that time Mr. Woolson was 103
years old," and and he said, "I was about
seven." And he said everyone was concerned
that he would catch cold so he said they
put him in about five or six layers of
coats of all this clothing, and then they
said on top of that they put a ski mask
over his head so all you could see were
his eyes and smile. (Laughter) 
And he had so much clothing on he
couldn't move his arm he was just going
back in the fourth it's just about an
inch and that was it. So he said that was
my experience seeing Albert Woolson. What
I was telling that I got a rise out of
somebody a couple just a couple of weeks
after that raised his hand he said Tim I
have something fine to tell you. He said, "I
have an Albert Woolson story also. He
said, "although I didn't meet the man." But
he said you'll like this he said, "I'm 89
years old he said I was born in 1930
I'm a Korean veteran." And he said I was
very musically inclined and he said when
I entered when I entered the army after
after graduated from college in 1952, I
became part of the American army band. And he said so here's my Albert Woolson
story. He said in early 1953 when Dwight
Eisenhower of course became our new
president succeeding Harry Truman he
said he decided that he wanted to always
keep a very good portion of the American
army band in the States because he
said several of us were going over to
South Korea to entertain the troops and
he said the reason they wanted to keep a
sizable portion of us in the States was
because whenever Albert Woolson expired
and he was now a hundred and three years
old they wanted to be able to bury him
at Arlington National Cemetery
replete with all the honors that should be
accorded to him was the last Union
veteran so he said that that kept him
back in the States and he said well he
said we got through 1953 and I'm still
in the service Albert Woolson hasn't died.
He said we get through 1954 I'm still in
the service Albert Woolson hasn't died. He
said we get through 1955. He said now my
hitch is up Albert Woolson is still alive.
He said he kept me out of harm's way
that whole time! (Laughter) Well anyway,
I said a couple of times that I used to
belong to this Sons of Union Veterans of
the Civil War. The organization was
having its national encampment in
Springfield, Illinois a few years ago as
I said live in Peoria I thought it would
be a good move to to go to one of the
national encampments since this one was
in such close proximity to where I live. And so I went down with a few other
folks from Peoria and in one of these
dreadfully boring business meetings at
the outset of the of the convention
a gentleman stood up and he was
introduced the gentleman by the name of
Ed Blakely from Grand Rapids, Michigan.
Ed was introduced as the son of a
Michigan cavalry soldier well right away
I'm thinking in my life because I was a
teacher
this is the end of summers like the
first weekend in August and I'm thinking
to myself wouldn't it be neat for one of
middle school students to correspond
with this Mr. Blakely. Because I was
going to be moving on with these kids to
eighth grade and I had had them in
seventh grade teaching language-arts to
them. So I already knew you know a lot of
my students whom I was going to have and
so I couldn't wait for there to be a
break in the meeting. And so I came over
to Mr. Blakely once there was a break
and I stuck my hand up and sir you don't
have a cane like - You really do have a cane
ma'am! If I could use your cane
for just a second. Mr. Blakely was pre-99
and he had a cane just like this but
there was no believe me folks there was
no need for that cane. Mr. Blakely looked
as if tops maybe late 80s that was all. And he was in terrific constitution both
physically and then later we're going to
learn cerebrally as well. Anyway he
flipped the cane at me like this, and
it has address on the top of it he goes,
"there he go kid he said do with the
address what you like." So I said I said
well I have one of my middle-school
students who would love to correspond
with you. And so I said would you be able
to write to him if he were to write to
you this next week said no problem at all.
Well I was telling some of the guys in
the Illinois contingent about meeting
with us Mr. Blakely, Tom, and they
couldn't believe it they thought I was
embellishing this what good shape he was
in. And so so anyway so that night before
the dinner I see Mr. Blakely with some
of his Michigan contemporaries there
over at the bar area before they go into
the dining room, and they're singing you
know and very jolly and they're singing
these Union veterans songs like boys
will rally around the flag you know. And
this gentleman this 99, pre-99 year old, has
a high ball in one hand he has his cane
in the other which he doesn't need,
and he's out on the dance floor just
doing all these moves. So as soon as I
got back to school, back to Peoria, and now
we're still about three weeks away from
the commencement of the school year, and
I'm thinking to myself even though this
Mr. Blakely looks great and he was in
great shape nevertheless he was going to
be 99 so time was not our friend. So I
contacted one of my former students and and he
knew I was going to have him again this
later in a couple of weeks and he said
Mr. Pletk what do you bother eating
before now he said I'm going to see it
in three weeks. I said oh I said man, I said
you can't believe someone whom I met
over the week and I said his dad was a
Michigan cavalry soldier in the Civil War.
Now if you said that Lynn, you know if you
said that to most people today just I
don't care if it's a young person or an
older person if you said that it's not
going to resonate with them it's not
going to mean anything. But this Kwame
was a really really sharp kid and
he had a real appreciation for history,
so he knew that this was very very
unusual this was a real anomaly. But he
was very skeptical he couldn't believe it. And I could hear him on the other end
of the phone he wasn't saying anything
into the receiver but he was doing
something numerically and he was going
1865, (Laughter)  No, he goes, Mr. Pletkovich, you didn't
meet anybody whose dad fought the Civil War. So I explained to him how it was
I said Kwame I want you to meet me over at
school I said we're gonna write to this
guy and I said you're gonna compose the
letter and then we're gonna think up
together about 25 or 30 questions were
going to ask him he said he was very nice. He's looking forward to hearing from us
so we're gonna do this right away. So the
next day Kwame met me over at school and
he composed the letter and after about
16 tries it was grammatically correct. (Laughter) And so we able to send it off.
And Kwame said he said well Mr. Pletk
would you help me with some of the questions?
Well, I helped helped with like two and then he came
up with next 23. He did a great job!
We heard from Mr. Blakely within eight or
ten days. And Kwame called me up and he
said, "You'll never guess who I heard from." I said Mr. Blakely. "Yeah!" And he said
now I've got all these questions I
really want to ask! Because he answered
the 25, and now I've got about 50
questions that I want to ask him.
So I said well you go ahead Kwame you write
out the question - your new
questionnaire send it off to Mr. Blakely
we'll see what happens. Another ten days
passed, Mr. Blakely wrote a third letter
back. So, he and Kwame are really going
with this they're really running with it.
Now we're ready for the commencement of
the school year. And I got to thinking if
this is going this well for Kwame, maybe
just maybe, we could do this as a group
assignment in one of my English classes
if we could find enough what they are
called real sons real sons of the Union
veterans. Well the organization, Sons of
Union Veterans, was able to supply me
with a list of about 30 names. A little
bit more than that actually about 35.
However as you can imagine the attrition
rate on that list was pretty high,
because these folks at this time when we
were doing the project the children
ranged anywhere from being late
septuagenarians to being octogenarians.
So a lot of them were quite old. But we went
ahead each student had someone whom he
could write to. And it went really really
well because even in the four or five
cases where the son had expired we, heard
from either the widow or we heard from
one of his children or grandchildren so
we had just 100% as far as as far as the
volume that we received from these folks. Letters were so interesting some
couldn't write a lot because of age
because of infirmity but but others just
did a terrific job and gave us more than
we could have ever hoped for. well I
thought this was going to be the end of
the project and then all of a sudden one
day in this seventh hour class, last
class of the day, about six kids stayed
after class, four of whom were girls. And
and I mentioned that there were girls.
and I'll explain that why in a little
bit. And one of them initiated the
conversation said Mr. Pletk said we
know we can't keep doing this in class
writing to these folks but would you
care if we continued to correspond with
these folks for a while? I said care?1? 
I said that would be great and said that
something I just I hadn't thought you'd
be interested in doing but that's
wonderful. So on a regular basis for four
out of the five nights a week from
Monday to Thursday these kids started
staying anywhere from two to three and a
half four hours after school working on
these letters.
it ended up being a composition of about
ten or twelve kids who would stay every night.
Well the thirty surviving real sons gave
us the addresses of their sisters the
real daughters and so that increased our
pool from about thirty to sixty. So
for these twelve kids on average each
kid was corresponding with approximately
five in some cases six of these civil
war children. And it was working out very
very well. Except, I have to tell you this
because you get a kick out of this, one
gentleman in particular, a gentleman
named John Whitman his dad was a
Pennsylvania cavalry soldier during the
war and after the war private Whitman's
became Reverend Whitman became a
Lutheran minister and he had ministerial
assignments in the Midwest among other
places some of those assignments of the
Midwest which were too far from here. And
anyway John became a school
administrator the son and so he was one
of the younger folks he was just in his
80s and John and John said to us one day
finally this Nick Brown, with whom he was
corresponding, he said Nick he said I
look forward to this getting a letter
from you every week I think it is
wonderful, but kid don't you know how to
do email?!? (Laughter) And and so the the Civil War
children were all set on doing email, so
we had to transition to doing that for
them. And it was it was wonderful.
A lot of the a lot of the kids started
to get a commonality though after maybe
four or five letters, and and six letters
seven letters, and that was especially
the men were starting to say to them I
think I've given you as many memories as
I can supply concerning my dad's career
you know you have to remember I was only
12 or 14 years old when he expired so
I've told me pretty much all that I can.
And I said that's okay said you keep in
touch with them you keep writing to them
because you know how that is with folks
they won't think of something one day a
week from now a month from now two
months from now they will. So you keep a
steady flow of letters going between the
two of you they did they kept a great
job of it.
In the meantime I'm starting to focus on
another aspect of this because as I say
there was this commonality that we started to see the letter writing with these folks, especially the men,
where they would say I guess I've given
you all the memories I can about my
dad's military career, I'll have to be
content with my own war memories.
Well, that's when it hit me and it made sense
most of the folks that we were speaking
with were born within a 5 - 6 year period
of 1920 you know going either way. So of
course they were World War 2 veterans.
So I started concentrating on that while
the kids continued to, and did a great
job, of extrapolating as much additional
information concerning these folks
fathers Civil War lives as they could.
My principal called me down to the office
one day he said Pletk I know what you're
doing with these kids and he said this
is really neat and how come you didn't
tell me about it? And I said I didn't have time because
they just wanted they want to keep
working all the time so I didn't have
time after school. And he said I think we
need to try to get them some publicity.
Now this was in a section of Peoria
known as the Southside which is a pretty
tough neighborhood. And as my principal
who was a wonderful gentleman, former
professional football player, who came
back to Peoria after growing up on the
south end, came back to be a teacher and
coach and later a principal for us. Just a
dynamic leader a wonderful person to
serve as a role model for these students
many of whom were parentless. And he said
he said you know Tim these kids families
get their names in the papers for all
the wrong reasons.
He said these kids are doing something
really really special. And he said
we need to get them some attention. And
and so he said I'm gonna call the local
paper. So he contacted the local paper,
they had a reporter come out and she did
a great job of you know having all types
of quotations from the kids, and how this
project developed, what was happening, the
story behind the story was so many of
these civil war children and their
fathers, just a terrific job. Well that
article went out over the AP wire, so it
was picked up around the country in a
lot of the major dailies, and in
in small-town papers you know whatever.
And so for instance the Chicago Trib.
picked it up and ran a story the
Washington Times ran a feature story. The
Wall Street Journal used portions of the
of the interview for us for a story
which they reprinted. Then we started to
hear from some of these different major
dailies. A gentleman with the Chicago
Trib was a longtime reporter worked in
many different capacities for the Trib,
he was in the sports department, he wrote
a government column, and gentleman by the
name of Mike Conklin. Mike contacted us
because he wanted to do his own story
for the Trib and find out about the kids.
Miss Martha Boltz for the Washington
Times contacted us. She had a Civil War
column which appeared on a regular basis
in The Washington Times.
Well she contacted us wanted to do a
story on the kids. To reporter for the
name Jeff Zaslow, from The Wall Street
Journal contacted us. He ended up using
interviews with the kids for two other
stories for a larger larger piece on on
the war experience at home. And so now
we've had these major dailies who have
made contact with the students. This
thing is really rolling one day right
after that, after one of the articles are
after actually all the articles that
appeared because they came out about the
same time, my principal called me down
in the office he said you have a phone
call from a gentleman in Nashville. And
and so this gentleman on the other end
introduced himself. He said I'm with a
publishing company here in Nashville
called Cumberland Press, and he said I
was really intrigued by this he said we
get the Wall Street Journal and he said
I saw Jeff Zaslow's two articles
where your students were quoted they
said I was just wondering if you ever
considered do you have enough for a book
material? And I said you know I really
hadn't thought about it because we're
still and you know the fairly early
stages of this. We've only been doing it
for about three or four months and so I
said how I said I really haven't given a
lot of thought to it. He said keep us in
mind because he said this is really
unique. Not just the fact that these are
children of Civil War soldiers were
still living, but the fact that these
children were World War Two veterans,  both men and women.
The very next day,  Mr. Lobdell calls me
down to the office and he says you got
another call. And it was a gentleman for
a publishing company in St. Petersburg,
Florida. He introduced himself - it was actually the publisher himself who was calling this time. And he said
Tim, he said, he used to have an office of Northern
Virginia for Vandamere Press, and he
said so I still get the Washington Post
of the Washington Times. And he said, I
was reading Martha Boltz's column the other day about
your students. And he said this is really
really fascinating. He said this would be
great fodder for a book. He said, have you
ever thought about this becoming a book?
And I said yeah, I thought about it
yesterday. (Laughter) And so he said well why don't-
he said why don't you plan on coming
to Chicago he said in the spring. He said
in an early June I said I'm gonna be at
the McCormick place for the American
Library Association National Conference. And he said I'd like to speak with you.
I swear everybody think from out of
state, from out of the Midwest, when you
tell them that you're from Illinois, they
think you automatically live in Chicago.
or any other Chicago suburb. So he was a
little surprised, I think, it took me
three and a half hours to get there. And we
we talked about a potential contract.
And a few months later a cons-- a contract
was consummated with this Vandamere Press.
The book has ended up its into its
third print now. It it initially sold
6,000 copies. And I had no idea that it
would continue. And it's in its third
print now and continuing to do very very
well. I mentioned before that we were so
lucky to have such unique experiences
amongst these eight Civil War veterans
who are featured in the book. And amongst
the 14 World War two veterans who are in
the book. I mentioned, I alluded to the
fact of having this big Wisconsin
connection with this gentleman who
served with the Second Wisconsin
Volunteer Infantry who ended up later on
becoming the governor of Wisconsin.
He was injured. Will Upham was 20, 19
years old when he enlisted in the Union
Army he was the youngest of eight
children. And ,Tom, this is the family I
was talking about researching at the
Wisconsin Historical Society. And you
think about, this is another way that we
lucked out. Three of the eight Civil War
vets in the book had kept diaries. And
and this gentleman was so meticulous and
actually after he became a Confederate
POW, he continued to correspond and some
of his letters were able to get out of
Libby Prison in Richmond, Virginia. But anyway it was decided among - and he's not he's not fabricating.
this. It really was decided this way. He
was the youngest of eight children. The
father was deceased, and it was decided
among his seven older siblings, that Will
the youngest was going to be the family
representative in enlisting with the
Second Wisconsin Volunteer Infantry. So
the Second Wisconsin's immediately goes
out to goes out east. They trained in
Madison, and proceeded to go out east.
And they fight in the first major battle of
the war, which is that Bull Run.
Oh shoot! I left, yeah I left them. I was going to
read an excerpt from one of those
letters. He was in he was in a battle of
the day before Bull Run which was at
Centerville, Virginia. I was going to read
that. Tom, we don't need - If you could, Tom
it's - it'll be out there on the table.
And so he's writing about his war
experiences on this July 20th. And  he's
talking about the next day or the day
after is going to be a very very big
battle. And that ended up being Manassas
or the Battle at Bull Run. Well, anyway, he
is, he is listed as injured, at first of
the Battle of Bull Run he had been taken
to a makeshift hospital. He had a terrible wound
Tom, actually it's that binder. "The white one?"   Yeah, the white binder. Yeah.
He had a terrible wound which went
through his neck went through his chest.
And he was taken to a makeshift hospital
nearby in a place called Sibley, Virginia.
Well, as you know, that battle was a rout
for the Confederacy. And so there were
a multiplicity of Union soldiers who had
been injured who were at this makeshift
hospital which was this church. And it
was it was very very sad because the
surgeon, they did have a surgeon from the
Second Wisconsin, who was there. Thank you Tom.
There was a surgeon from the Second
Wisconsin who was there and so that was
good. But soldiers who had not been
injured but who had helped to have taken
them on litters had to leave them at the
church, otherwise they would have been
captured. So, they ended up so the ones
who are able to move leave, and then the
injured become prisoners of the
Confederate government. Well, as I mentioned, he
has this gaping hole in his neck. He's
torn up pretty badly. No vital organs
though were touched, which is
good. He ended up not receiving any
medical treatment for the first three
days. So you can imagine what it must
have looked like at the conclusion of
that three days. I just wanted to read
an excerpt from a letter that he wrote
back to his family the day before, the
day before the Battle of Bull Run. And he
says, he says in this letter, and I'll just read just part of it.
We have advanced
within seven miles of Manassas Junction.
Day before yesterday we had quite a
severe action near Bull Run, our troops
were repulsed with the loss of 16 killed
and 35 wounded. We had been encamped
until last Tuesday at Camp peck five
miles from Washington on the Virginia
side of the Potomac. We defiled to the
right into the woods, when we hauled it.
We expected to be called up to support
Sherman's battery. There we lay for more
than an hour cannonballs whistling and
crashing
through the trees above. You can see one
coming and the boys would duck their
heads as it passed over. General McDonald
said our regiment formed in the best
order of any regiment and for green
hands, this is their first battle, and for
green hands to stand and have the balls
come as close as they did not knowing
but what your head would fly - would
fly off in a minute I think we did
pretty well. This battery is a very
strong one and will have to be bombarded
before it can be taken. We are waiting
for heavy guns to come up from
Washington. We will probably be in battle
tomorrow. And then he was injured in the
Battle of Bull Run. He's taken to this
makes a field hospital does not receive
any attention for the first three days.
Eventually he does receive some
attention and he, along with the other
injured soldiers, are transported by the
Confederates to Libby Prison in
Richmond. Now for those of you who know a
lot about the Civil War you know that
Richmond was was the place eventually
where the only Union soldiers who would
have been there would have been those
who were commissioned officers. But at
this time in the early stages of the war
they were putting everyone into this
particular locality. So he ends up being
interned than at Libby prison for
several months. However his captain from
his company who had seen him at the
church and saw the condition that he was
in and the fact that no one was tending
to him he was certain that Will was
going to die. So he wrote a letter, two
letters, back to the family. And he said
in these letters, I have written to you
once all particulars concerning the
death of Willie. He said in my opinion he
is in fact dead. Although when he was
left at the hospital he was still alive.
I stood close to him when he was struck
and saw plainly how it was. The ball
struck him at the left shoulder passing
through the strap supporting the
cartridge box passing through diagonally
and coming out at the back. It was, I am
fearful, a mortal wound. So the family
has received word that Will has died at
the Battle of Bull Run. The family
proceeds to have a funeral service for
Will back in Racine, Wisconsin. At that
time, Will was engaged to be married to
this young woman named Mary Kelly. So you
can imagine the heartache not only his
mother and his siblings are going
through but also for Mary. So the family
went ahead with this funeral service.
Just a short time after that, the Captain
writes a third letter back to Mrs. Upham,
the mother, stating you know I was sorry
that we gave you fallacious information.
Will is in fact alive. He is being
interned by the Confederates at Libby
Prison in Richmond. We will try to keep
you informed with information as we go
along. Well actually he was able to send, Will was able to send a letter out of
Libby Prison which reached his family
back in Racine. It's interesting, and Tom
you might be able to shed some light on
this after looking at that particular
letter, because he tried to dispel the
the thought in his letter that his
treatment in the prison was egregious. He
was trying to make it sound as if they
were being treated very well as a matter
of fact. And I just I wondered because
when he reached President Lincoln's ear, 
he gave President Lincoln a different
story. And so I'm thinking that maybe as
a way to ensure that this letter would
get out of the prison, in case it was
being censored, that he would have to
extend some courtesies to the
Confederate government. And by the way, he
meets Jefferson - I'm not saying that he
actually met him. He saw Jefferson Davis
at Libby Prison at that time. So anyway
so, Captain Strong writes a third letter
then in the Upham family. We're sorry we
told you Will had passed away. He is
interned at Libby Prison. Well, we get through 1861
and there is not been a release. But
there is soon to be a release in January
in early January, 139 of the 140
prisoners at that time at Libby, left in
mass and were taken to Camp Parole,
Maryland, and then from there they went home.
I say a hundred and thirty nine out
of a hundred and forty. Guess who it was the
one who didn't go out with that entire
group? Yeah it was Will.
So Captain Strong wrote a fourth letter
back to the family.
This time stating, right, we're sorry we'd inform you the death of Will when he
was alive. In fact now we know he did expire
between September 15, 1861 and January
4th 1862. The very next day, Will is
released in this secondary exchange as
the last prisoner. When he gets, when he
gets to Camp Parole, Maryland, he's
approached by some folks who send him
via train to Washington. And he receives
word that he is to meet with this United
States Wisconsin Senator named James
Doolittle, who as serendipity would have
it was from Racine. Now I don't know if
Senator Doolittle had ever met Will Upham,
but he was very familiar with the Upton
family, and he had been tracking Will's
status where he had been after his
incarceration, that kind of thing. So he
was alert that Will was thought to have
been dead, when he was alive, than dead
then alive. And so, anyway, so when Will
gets to DC he's met at the train station
by Senator Doolittle. Senator Doolittle
precedes to tell him here's somebody who
is trying to extract as much information
as possible from the recently released
prisoners so that we have a better idea
of what they're having to endure.
You need to come speak with him with the
White House, So the three of them then
sat down at the White House and had this
initial meeting. I won't talk too much
about it because in a couple minutes
we're going to watch the video
presentation where the son, Fritz, tell us
what transpired between his dad
and President Lincoln. Anyway, I will tell
you this and I'll encapsulate this for
you so we can get to the to the video.
I'll finish up for the next five minutes
or so. But but anyway he ends up
receiving this appointment to West Point.
And so what he runs into President
Lincoln for a second time then in the
spring of 1862. It just so happened while
he was there taking his entrance exams
President Lincoln happened to be at the
Academy also. Lincoln knew that Upham
had already passed his entrance
examinations. Then when he called Upham
over though he didn't tell him. And this
sounds, Tom, very Lincolnesque. In Lincoln's humor.
And he said, young man, he said I
understand that you've taken your
examinations how did you do on them?And
and he said, well Mr. President I don't
know he said we just took them yesterday
and we haven't haven't been alerted yet
to our status. And Lincoln said something
to the effect of well I'm sure somebody
with faculties as strong as yours are
that he did an adequate job that you'll
be accepted into the Academy. So he never did tell
him that he had already passed.
Well, so he ends up passing. He graduates in the
class of 1866, and from there he has to
serve the four years of Army duty which
would be obligatory for the recently
released cadets who are coming out as
Second Lieutenants. And so that's what he
sent to a place called Fort Monroe,
Virginia where Jefferson Davis is being
interned. And it's so interesting because
Upham develops this real, it was a
strong friendship, with Davis during the
several month period during which he had
duty covering President Davis on a
12-hour basis, daily basis. They played
you know multiplicity of different games. You know played a lot of checkers, a lot
of chess. They were both chess players. And so, but he just plays so much chess.
And so they would have these in-depth
conversations. One of the things that
struck Will Upham so interestingly
was the fact that the Jefferson Davis
had such a rich tremendous knowledge of
Wisconsin history, geography, topography,
because of course Jefferson Davis had
spent many years in Wisconsin, going back
to the Blackhawk war when he was in the
American Army and was stationed along
the Mississippi at Prairie du Chien. Well,
he spent several years at that locale
after the war too. And this was something
that struck, you know, that struck young Upham
you know. Just very interesting that
here I am a Wisconsin, a Wisconsinite, and
this guy this gentleman for the South
the Confederacy for president is so much
more about Wisconsin history than I. And
so it really interesting. One of the
things that they talked about, which and
I had talked with Tom a little bit
about this earlier, and it's. This is a
little dubious but it was something that
that Upham wrote about at the time of
Jefferson Davis' demise - because he ends
up becoming governor of Wisconsin, young
Upham. And everyone knows about his
connection with both President Lincoln
and with Jefferson Davis. One of the
things that he and Jefferson Davis
talked about was the fact that
apparently Jefferson Davis had sired a
Menominee Indian during the time that he
was stationed at Prairie du Chien, along
the Mississippi River. And Upham went so
far and this eulo- and he wasn't he
wasn't writing it salaciously.
He wasn't saying it to be tabloid journalism like
something you'd see in the in the
Daily Mirror or the National Enquirer. That
wasn't his purpose for it.
He talked as if he knew the son of Jefferson Davis'.
And they were approximately in the same age.
And so he was praising him for the
kind of person that he was both is his
ability as a businessman and as a person. That he was a great contributor to his
community
and what turned out to be the
neighboring County where Upham lived. Upham lived in Marshfield, Wisconsin which is
in Wood County. It's right smack in the
center of the state.
Shawno County is in the adjacent county,
just to the east of Wood County.
So it would make perfect sense that he could
have in fact as I say it sounded as if
he did know this Menominee Indian son of
Jefferson Davis's who went by two names.
One by Joseph Davis. Which was
interesting because Jefferson Davis had
a legitimate son named Joseph Davis. And
and then he also went by this Menominee
Indian name. And so let me draw your own
conclusions but I was telling Tom it's
been interesting because I've looked on
different sites on the internet where I
found different theses and dissertations
were where academics have talked about
this when they have been talking about
the relationship between the Menominee
Indians and that part of Wisconsin and
the American Army. And so just something
interesting that some of you might want
to further research that was pretty
interesting. Well anyway, so as I say he
ended up marrying this woman to whom he
was engaged at the time that they had
his funeral back in Racine. And so he
ends up having a very full life he
serves one term as Governor of Wisconsin
in the 1890s. Wanted to get out of
politics after that he said I don't want
anything to do with all these nefarious
people anymore. And he said one term was
enough. And he said I'm ready now to go
back into private life, which he did.
Well, he and his wife had a very wonderful
relationship, a long marriage of about
45, 46 years. She died in 1912. And in his grief, he decided that he would
leave Wisconsin for a while and that he
would buy a boat and sail down the
Atlantic coast, which he did. Bought a boat in
Philadelphia then sailed the yacht down the
Atlantic coast. He did this during the
fall of the year and he got into a
terrible storm around Cape Hatteras. He
was just outside of Beaufort, North Carolina.
And probably just
probably was a hurricane this time of
year. And so he ended up being stranded
in Beaufort for a couple of weeks.
Well, by this time by 1912, you know some of
the newspapers around the country are
starting to have photographs in it. Well
one day there's a photograph of this 71
year old governor Upham, which appears in
the Beaufort, North Carolina daily
newspaper. And this well-to-do couple in
town by the name of Dr. and Mrs. Duncan
are reading the paper one morning. Dr.
Duncan has one piece of it his wife has
another. Dr. Duncan turns to his wife and
says. Clyde said, did you read about this
former Wisconsin governor who's stranded
here in Beaufort? And she said I sure did doc.
Are you thinking what I'm thinking?
And he said and what might that be? He
said my sister Grace who's 28 years old
has been living upstairs with us for far
too long. (Laughter) It's time that she got married!
So they invited, they sent word over to the
hotel where he was staying, for him to
come over for dinner. A romance did ensue.
Two years later
Governor Upham and Miss Grace Mason
married. He was 73 and at the time then
she was 28. And what's interesting about
that, I saw the headlines in the
Marshfield newspaper when it became word
in 1914 when it was divulged that they
were going to get married. That did look
like something from the National Enquirer.
It had these huge headlines that said
"Secret Out Governor Upham to Wed Woman, 28."
(Laughter) And so they married. Two years
after that, in 1916, Will was born, when
his dad was 75. And then five years after
that, when his dad was 80,
Will fathered his second son who was Fritz.  and that is
whom we are going to hear in the
National Geographic video. So if we could
go ahead Lynn, if we can show that video
and I mention if we can just look up
children of Civil War veterans still
walk among us. This is about a six minute
video presentation folks. They're going
to be interviewing two people. One of
whom will be the daughter of a Confederate veteran.
Then they will switch
then they will switch to Governor Upham's
son Fritz. Then they'll go back to the
Confederate daughter then to the Union
son. And I think you'll like it. They
complement each other very very nicely.
And so we'll go ahead and we'll see that
in just a moment. This was produced a
couple of years ago, by - and I say by
National Geographic. Fritz whom you were
going to hear unfortunately passed away
just a few months ago. And he almost
reached his 98th birthday just a
terrific, terrific ambassador for
American history.
Folks I don't want you to have any
misconceptions about the content of the
book so as we're closing I wanted to
elucidate something for you. About 25-30
percent of the book pertains to the
children's reflections of their dads
Civil War lives. And then about 70
percent would be their retrospection of
growing up during the Depression
and fighting in World War Two. So it's not,
it's not really a Civil War book.
It's much more a book of Americana. The scope
is much larger. There are eight chapters
in the book, each devoted to a different
Civil War vet and his family. This first
chapter is representative of what the
content would be like in the other
chapters. In this case, and I mentioned
this family a little bit earlier, this
Civil War vet from Arkansas. And all
eight of the families are Union families.
Two of the families though, are southern. Five are  Midwestern, and in one is a New York City family.
As you know there were a lot
of southerners a lot of sections of the
South that remained loyal to the Union. And so that wasn't unusual at all but we
found a couple gentlemen who were
southerners who who made the book.
In this case the Arkansas man was 71 when
he remarried. It was his third marriage.
It was his wife's second. She was 27.
They fi- They sired these five. He sired these five children after 71. And four of them were living when
we conducted the interviews. So at the
end of the four years, because it took
four years to complete the book, I took
the interviews and combined them so that
they read like a conversation just like
these four elderly folks were sitting at
your kitchen table reflecting on their
dads life, recalling stories that that he
told them about the Civil War. Things
that the children did with him
during their teenage years, and younger.
And then in his case for that Civil War
vet, all three of his sons whom we
interviewed ended up fighting in the
World War Two. So their depression era, World War Two narratives come at the
end of the chapter. And those are not
combined. Those are kept separately,
because as I mentioned obviously there
was a lot more content to be gleaned
from these folks about their own war
experiences as opposed to their dad's
Civil War lives. So probably 70 - 75
percent of the book the content the
children's the Civil War children's
retrospection of growing up during the
Depression and fighting in World War two.
Lynn, thank you again for all of your
engineering that he did for us this
afternoon. Tom, I am very very
appreciative. This was a great honor to
have the opportunity to come to one of
the Presidential Libraries and I am just
I'm I just was elated to be able to do
it. And I wish our crowd have been a
little bit bigger, but I love being able
to see the interaction you folks had in
this. And I hope it wasn't too boring.
And in case you're interested in
purchasing a copy of the book they're
twenty-two dollars and I'd be glad to sign one for you outside afterwards in case anyone is interested.
So, at this point, Tom, I will turn it over back to you.
