

### The Human Soul

### The Gift of Free Will

### By

### Jesus (AJ Miller) &

### Mary Magdalene (Mary Luck)

### Session 2

### Published by

### Divine Truth, Australia at Smashwords

### http://www.divinetruth.com/

Copyright 2014 Divine Truth

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### This ebook is a transcript of a seminar delivered by Jesus (AJ Miller) and Mary Magdalene (Mary Luck) on 22nd April 2012 in Murgon, Queensland, Australia. In this seminar they outline loving guidelines for the use of free will, how free will affects our soul condition, and how to parent and teach children in harmony with the loving use of free will.

### Reminder From Jesus & Mary

### Jesus and Mary would like to remind you that any document produced by Divine Truth containing any information from Jesus, Mary or any other person includes only a portion of God's Truth that they have personally discovered.

### It does not and cannot contain the entire of God's Truth since God's Truth is infinite and humankind will forever continue to discover more of God's Truth as we progress in receiving more of God's Love.

### Please remember that due to these limitations information contained within this document may need to be revised in the future.

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### Table of Contents

The Gift of Free Will: Session 2

1. Introduction

2. How free will affects soul condition

2.1. Making a decision higher than our soul condition raises our soul condition and exposes emotional errors

2.1.1. To grow in love we only need to be more loving than we usually are

2.1.2. God's Universe is designed to create actions

2.1.3. Making a decision higher than our soul condition exposes emotional errors

2.1.4. Making a decision lower than our soul condition lowers our soul condition

2.1.5. No action is not an option if we want to grow in love

2.1.6. An analogy of climbing stairs to become more loving

2.1.7. An example of a woman who rebels against caretaking others' emotions

2.2. If we only affect our own life then controlling our will is dangerous to our soul

2.2.1. An example of a person wanting to commit suicide

2.2.2. An example of a son wanting to go hand gliding

2.2.3. An example of a person wanting to commit suicide (continued)

3. Spirit influence can be removed using a small electrical impulse

3.1. An example of a man alleviating his anger and resistance using an electrical foot massager

3.2. Expelling spirits is loving if it is done with an intention of love rather than anger

3.3. An example of a woman who has surrendered her will to spirits

3.4. Benefits of treating both people on Earth and expelled spirits during therapy

3.5. Only mild electrical shocks are required to expel spirits

4. Audience questions about free will

4.1. Being loving towards society

4.2. Mankind's resistance has prevented the truth about free will from being previously delivered on Earth

4.3. Differences between the expression of our will and God's Will as we grow in love

4.4. Recognising when we are using our free will in a loving manner

4.5. How to exercise free will in a loving manner when we are full of error

4.6. How to exercise free will in a loving manner using our soul and mind

4.7. Feeling pain when we take an unloving action

4.8. How the laws of love enter our hearts

5. Free will and parenting

5.1. An example of AJ disciplining his son in a manner out of harmony with love

5.2. How to discipline children in harmony with the loving use of free will

5.2.1. Teaching a child who is not old enough to comprehend verbal language

5.2.2. Feeling terror as a parent

5.2.3. Allowing the child to release its feelings of rebellion

5.3. Summary of how to restrict a child's free will in harmony with love

5.3.1. The adult's or parent's action

5.3.2. An example of AJ restricting other parent's children

5.3.3. Action to take according to the child's response

5.3.4. Addressing the causal emotions in the parent

5.4. An example of a child attacking an adult

6. Teaching children and adults about the loving use of their free will

6.1. Teaching children about the use of their free will

6.2. An example of talking to a person wanting to commit suicide (continued)

6.3. Teaching children about the use of their free will (continued)

6.4. An example teaching an adult murderer about free will

6.5. An example of AJ restricting other parent's children (continued)

6.6. An example of a woman with dementia

6.7. An example of a movie about teaching murderers about free will

6.8. Teaching a teenager about free will using restriction

6.9. An example of restricting to children who damaged AJ's furniture

6.10. The benefits of restricting children's free will

7. Closing words

Appendix: Seminar Outline

The Gift of Free Will: Session 2

1. Introduction

Welcome again today, thanks for your time and we are happy to give ours.

There are two points we would also like to raise that I did not cover yesterday, in "The Human Soul - The Gift of Free Will Session 1" and so I need to cover them. They are both about free will. Remember this discussion is part of The Human Soul series, and this is session two of the Gift of Free Will. So the first point is I want to explain to you how your free will affects the changes in your soul condition. I want to explain to you the link between those two things.

2. How free will affects soul condition

So if you imagine your soul has a certain condition of love, on a scale from zero to ten in terms of conditions of love. Let's call it, at the moment; condition ten is at-one with God. We can go beyond that in terms of love but let's just call that ten at the moment.

The amount of love in our soul can be likened to a scale from zero to ten

So our soul is in a certain condition of love now. Every spirit whose present today and every person on the Earth who is present today has a different condition in love and there are sometimes little finely attuned differences in these conditions. But everyone has a different condition.

Let's say we were somewhere in between the first and the second condition of love. Now what we want to do is look at how our free will and how the choices made with our free will, affects this condition, and it is very simple actually. If I make a choice that is higher than my current condition of love, then my soul condition will grow. If I make a choice that is lower than my current condition of love, my soul condition will degrade. And if I make a choice that is equal with my soul condition of love then my soul condition will remain the same. [00:15:04.17]

Making choices that are more loving than our current condition raises our condition, whereas making choices that are lower than our current condition lowers our soul condition

Mary: So babe perhaps you can explain to us what you mean by making a decision higher than my condition of love.

2.1. Making a decision higher than our soul condition raises our soul condition and exposes emotional errors

Let's give some examples in terms of what will happen in each case. So let's say my normal state of love is that I don't do very much for other people at all. Like most of my day-to-day life is spent just caring for my own needs. So let's say I am a single guy and most of the day is just spent doing what I want to do; it is very rare for me to do anything that anybody else would like or need and I spend most of my life just going through my life trying to fulfil all of my own desires and passions. I am not very concerned about what anybody else really needs or wants on the planet as long as I am happy, I am happy. And if I am sad then I might cry or I might be angry when something doesn't go my way but I am not that concerned if something doesn't go somebody else's way. Let's say that is my condition.

So let's say a situation comes along where on the side of the road there is a person, it is dark and their wheel is off the car. Normally I would just go and drive past and look at them, and maybe even wave, but just go past without doing anything. But this particular day I think, "No I'd like to help them." So I turn around, go back, stop and help them put their wheel on the car, and I then maybe take them into town so that they can ring up the RACQ or the RAA, or the automobile club that they are a member of. I have now given the gift of my time and the gift of my love to that person in that moment. I have just grown my soul, just a smidgen more than it was before, but it has grown.

Mary: So if we can relate this to some of the truths that we talked about yesterday, we said that I can use my free will in any direction on any matter in harmony with Divine Love and Divine Truth without having a negative consequence.

And in fact it would be a positive consequence.

Mary: It would grow my soul. However I may also experience some pain, mightn't I?

There are times when I might experience some pain. So for example in the case of the previous example I just gave, I stop on the side of the road, pull over I do the things for the person, but I left my car open and I forgot, and I drove into town with them. I help fix up the car, drove into town with them; left my car open and when I came back my wallet was stolen out of my car. So there might have been something negative happened when I tried to do something positive. [00:18:17.08]

Mary: Okay so I was thinking more about the emotions that I might experience...

There might also be that.

Mary: ...because, this is the point where we talked a lot about these truths having to enter our soul, and not be from our intellect. But it may be that we might still have some errors within us, which will be triggered when we act in harmony with these truths in our soul.

So the man, who pulls over on the side of the road, helps out the person and then the person is one of these people who talks non-stop, a bit like AJ. (Laughter) They are yakking away you know and you go, "I just want to get away from this person now. I'll have to remember to never pull over again." That kind of feeling comes up and this is because it is triggering another emotion where you can't just say, "I'm sorry mate but I've got to go now," without feeling drawn into some kind of conversation with the person.

Mary: So this may be the reason why I have never stopped in the past - because people annoy me. But this time I feel to use my will in harmony with God's Love and Truth. I am going to help this person but in order to stay in harmony with that love and truth, while this person is yakking away, I would just be humble to the fact that, "This is why I never used to do this because I feel a lot of pain about the fact that I feel like there is no space for me; actually I feel really unloved in this situation," and I could actually deal with an emotion.

You'd deal with it and there would be a feeling of a sense of feeling pain obviously.

Mary: I guess that is what I am trying to elucidate, because very often I feel there is a tendency to say, "Well I am not that loving yet so I can't really do that," whereas we have the opportunity to be humble while we take these actions and actually grow. That is in fact why our soul condition elevates after we do it, isn't it?

Yes. But also if you can see that when we go into a positive direction with the thing that we choose to do, we will automatically be confronting any negative thing inside of our soul that would normally have kept us in the same place. So when we actually act in harmony with more love than exists in our soul, it is going to be an automatic process that some kind of negative emotion will be experienced because of the confrontation between that new condition of love that we are aspiring to and our normal condition of love that we are currently in.

Mary: That is exactly what I was trying to say. (Laughs)

2.1.1. To grow in love we only need to be more loving than we usually are

So the key thing to understand is that in the course of a day we often do many positive things but then we often do many negative things. As I have drawn before, many times we cycle up and down, depending on what happened during the day, and then unfortunately we end up with exactly the same condition we started out with at the start of the day.

Our decisions can cause us to cycle in terms of our level of love during a day, leaving us with the same soul condition at the end of the day

It doesn't have to be that way, what we can do instead is (we don't have to be perfect) all we need to do is something that is more loving than something that we would normally do. To grow that is all you have to do. You just have to do something that is more loving today than you would normally do and because it is more loving it will confront whatever thing wants to keep you at equilibrium, what wants to keep you at that point where nothing gets confronted.

If we choose to do something that is less loving than what we would normally do then we degrade our condition; our condition gets worse. For most of us in the course of a day what we do instead of both of those things; we do what we would normally do and that is why our condition doesn't change very much. [00:22:37.11]

It is quite simple, like it is a quite simple law of physics really, isn't it? If you do something above it, you will rise or aspire to it. If you do something below it, you are going to go down to that condition or head in that direction. And if you do much the same as you have always done, then of course you are going to get basically exactly the same results as you've always gotten and that is how it works.

So if we understand that the soul does not have to be number ten every time it chooses to do an action, it doesn't have to be number ten in love every time it chooses to do something. Many of you believe this, this is why you go, "Is this really loving? Is this really loving? If I was perfect would I be doing this?" It is a good question to ask but at the end of the day we are not perfect so it sometimes is more like a hypothetical situation because none of us are perfect yet, so how can we even hypothetically see what that amount of love is? But many of us do know what a more loving thing is in the course of a day. Just even a slightly more loving thing is going to be better than nothing. And so when we choose even a slightly more loving thing than what we would normally do we are now growing our condition.

2.1.2. God's Universe is designed to create actions

So many of you go into fear of feeling like this free will discussion, thinking, "I can't make any mistakes, I have to do everything perfect. If I don't do everything perfect there is a consequence to everything I do," which is also true - these are all true things. However then we go, "Maybe the foetal position at home is the best option," (laughter) and it is definitely not the best option because where does that position leave you? In leaves you doing nothing; that is where it leaves you. [00:24:35.18]

This is the problem that we face is that inaction has just as much long term damage to us in a way because inaction means that we can never grow and we want to grow; that is the point to it.

Mary: And it is also very hard to take no actions, isn't it?

Yes, it is very difficult.

Mary: You can't remain in the foetal position so long; you have get up, go to the shop and already start taking actions don't you?

You have to go to the toilet at some point, you have to eat at some point, you are going to have to interact with somebody at some point generally. And even if you go and be a hermit you are going to be interacting with nature at some point. You are going to have to interact with something at some point and as a result of that it is very important to understand that God's Universe is actually governed into forcing you to act at some point. The whole universe is about causing us to act, whether we like to engage the action or not.

Mary: And I think that is really beautiful because it means we are going to grow, doesn't it?

2.1.3. Making a decision higher than our soul condition exposes emotional errors

Participant: Is it true then that what stops me perhaps, from choosing what is more loving, is to avoid that pain of what it is going to show up?

Always. Always. The only reason why we don't choose the positive course of action, which will lead me to a more loving event, is because generally in the soul, I know that the difference between those two conditions has some degree of pain associated with it. And to be frank most of us are using our will on a moment-by-moment basis to avoid pain.

Making a decision above our current condition exposes pain within us

We spend most of our lives avoiding pain. So what is our god? Our god is not God, our god is not the Creator, our god is pain. When I say pain is god, it is because what you are trying to avoid can become your god. It becomes the thing that rules your life. So if you are trying to avoid fear, then fear becomes your god. If you are trying to avoid pain, then pain becomes your god and everything else becomes subservient to it.

It is far better off to say pain is a beautiful process. This is a feeling we need to eventually have in our soul. If I am in pain, a lot of the times it means I am growing, I am stretching something, something's doing something at least, I am changing. Whereas if I am just in the same perfect condition all the way along, nothing is changing then of course nothing is changing, it might feel everything is fine but the reality is I am not growing more in love.

And if I want to be at-one with God and enjoy the blessings of being at-one with God I am going to have to at some point decide to grow in more love, at some point, to make that decision.

2.1.4. Making a decision lower than our soul condition lowers our soul condition

Mary: It is similar to the example that we gave yesterday about the parent with the painful childhood who now doesn't want to parent their child because it will trigger their pain, isn't it?

That is correct. So let's look at the negative direction. You see what many of us don't realise is that make choices in a negative direction and then we of course go downhill. Now what I see often happen is I see that a person hits a point in their progression. We are progressing along and sometimes we are progressing slowly up. But then I hit a point where all of a sudden I feel pretty challenged. Many of you have had this, where you feel, "This is pretty challenging now. I am really angry now and I am really upset now." [00:28:38.13]

Mary: "I can't control anything in my life right now."

Yes, "I don't seem to be able to get back to any equilibrium in my life. Everything seems to be topsy-turvy now." And then what happens is we exercise resistance at that point, then new events will continue to happen in my life through the Law of Attraction, but unfortunately whilst I am resisting at this point, I start making choices in harmony with the fear that came up and so I start to go downhill. Then eventually I will be presented with a decision point and at this decision point the issue will be so large that I will either plummet, and just sort of fall off the precipice of any development and really go downhill very rapidly after that, or I will correct it, and then start going back up again.

It is almost like a point where once you hit it and if you go over it in a negative direction, you very rapidly make choices out of harmony with love. These are the points that happen when you are in a rage. When you make decisions and choices that are based on anger and rage, you very, very rapidly degrade your developing condition.

So you go along for a period of time nice and even, then you decide to engage your process and this is what generally happens for many, they engage the process with their free will and their condition of love starts improving. But then they get to a point where there are some really big issues that come up for them. There might be some deep grief associated with their childhood that they have been avoiding all of their life. And then for many of us we get into resistance about that and we start making choices based on the anger that we feel at that point, rather than releasing it. So we start making choices based on anger for a while but the Law of Attraction will start working to try and get us going in the other direction again even more. And then you get to a point where you get a really big issue.

Sometimes I see it between a husband and wife, where they are growing in their relationship, but then it sort of stalls and then it goes downhill a little bit. Then a huge issue comes up where one of them has the option of cheating on the other or one of them has the option of going to a new job in a new location or something, and there are some big stresses on the relationship at that point. [00:31:25.01]

And then because they have yet to address the issue that came up earlier, many people address this new issue with the same rage and down goes their condition very, very rapidly. And that is a sad thing to see because they have made some progress, they have hit the rage, the rage is an indicator of how big the problem is, and yet instead of addressing that as fear and then getting to the grief, they then act upon their fear and their rage until such a point that a big issue is attracted. And when that big issue comes, then they are sort of lost to everything for a while.

And I have seen people then stay in their new lowered condition for many years and then realise, "Ah that all began because I didn't deal with this problem, the one that was just gently brought to my attention that I resisted."

And we need to be aware that this is what happens with regard to the use of our will. When you act upon your rage and you act upon your fear, you are using your will to degrade your own condition. When you act upon love, what you know to be more loving that is currently in your soul that you normally would express, you are now in a position where you are elevating your own condition. It doesn't have to be perfect; it just has to be more than where you are.

And what I love about the way God's created this process is that God's not expecting us to be perfect when we come from an imperfect state but God wants us to desire to act with more love and that's all we need do; we don't have to do anything more than that.

2.1.5. No action is not an option if we want to grow in love

Participant: AJ that is so reassuring and beautiful, isn't it?

Yes.

Participant: Because many other people and I are guilty of not taking action because of the fear of doing damage to somebody else or causing ourselves more damage. So we were saying at book group the other day that if we just act in love, whatever we are doing, it has got positive results.

Yes so a little slogan that wouldn't go astray is - no action is no option.

Because if you think about it, if you are on the Divine Love Path, you might be saying or claiming that you are wanting to get closer to God. If you want to get closer to God then you need to grow in love and if you want to grow in love then not acting is not going to cause you to grow. So 'no action is no option' if you really want to grow in love. [00:34:38.22]

Participant: Well that is really reassuring, thanks for that.

And in fact it is better to take an action that causes a mistake or causes you to feel you have made a mistake than it is to take no action. The reason for that is that the Law of Attraction will bring you events that demonstrate the mistake of your action, so therefore you have the chance to grow from the action. If you take no action, then it is very, very hard for any event to be triggered to then give you feedback as to the direction that you have just taken.

Mary: And really what you are saying there is that we are going to experience pain in order grow, aren't we?

We have to experience pain in order to grow.

Mary: So by being inactive we are trying to circumvent pain when the best thing is just to launch in and make a mistake because once we have lived that pain we don't want to live that again so we won't make that mistake again.

Exactly. And by the way I need to qualify that statement I just made that pain will always occur. Until you are at-one with God, until you are in a condition of perfection, pain has to occur for you to grow. So if you are spending all of your life avoiding pain, there is not much hope of you ever getting to that condition.

Mary: Rachel, my guide, said to me a little while ago, "You're going to feel worse before you feel better. You're going to have to be prepared for that." Yeah.

Yes that is very true. Okay so that is the first thing that we would like to mention to you because I feel that oftentimes there is this belief that we have when we hear a talk like we heard yesterday, during "The Human Soul \- The Gift of Free Will Session 1", that we have got to be perfect in the way that we do everything now. And that is what causes many of us to not act at all because we feel, '"If I can't be perfect there's no point in acting." We become so afraid that we don't even finish up acting at all. [00:36:26.21]

But what I am basically saying is that 'no action is no option.' You do need to progress but you don't need to actually take a loving action that is huge, you just need to take one that is bigger than where you are currently at, and then your soul will grow. That's all we need to do to grow.

2.1.6. An analogy of climbing stairs to become more loving

So if you think it is like climbing some stairs. Now if I had to get up onto the stage in the hall without climbing the stairs there would be a lot more effort. I would have to climb up and get the leg over and get up on the stage rather than just climbing up the stairs one by one by one. And if you can think of it like that with your soul; every action you take that's a little action that's further developed in love than where you are currently at; you are basically taking one step up. Every time you take any little action that is less than where you are soul is and you can feel, "I did the wrong thing there," whenever you feel that feeling that is indicated you have just taken a step down. So you know, "are we going down or are we going up with our day-to-day activity?"

And the course of every day we have so many choices and therefore so many potential ways our soul could go. And you think if you, in the course of a day, you go up, up, up and then something happens and then you go down, down, down and then something else happens and you go up and then something else happens and you go down and then something else happens and you go up and then something else happens and you go down. And you can see as I have described there is all this effort in this process as well, isn't there? There is all this effort of up and down, up and down and yet the net result is zero. You may as well stay home in bed that day. Can you see that because nothing's actually changed? [00:38:32.13]

On some days our loving and unloving choices can cause us to make no net change to our soul condition

It is far better off if you can choose in the course of a day to go up, up, up and even if you only do three of those in a day you end up at the end of the day in a higher condition.

It is possible to take loving steps to end the day in a more loving condition

You're far better off than taking those negative actions based on rage and fear and anger. And sometimes they're based on other emotions, shame, jealousy, envy and a lot of other negative emotions of course all of those kinds of things.

2.1.7. An example of a woman who rebels against caretaking others' emotions

Participant: As a child I feel like I was trained to care about the other members of my family, their emotions, and the way that they are.

Yes. Can I say you were not trained to care; you were trained to make their emotions go away which is a big difference between those two states. You see there is no harm in caring. There is a huge harm in caretaking and making their emotions go away.

Participant: Yes, so my question was about feeling that training, which you have just clarified that has led me to realise I live under a lot of obligation. I feel obligated to people around me.

Can I suggest it is actually the opposite of that again, Jen? You feel the obligation and then you feel the feeling inside of you of wanting to resist it and so you actually live in rebellion. [00:40:17.09]

Participant: Ah, that is rebellion. Oh the penny drops.

So for most of us when we have been forced into caretaking in our childhood, we are now in rebellion because we don't want to feel the grief of how overwhelmed we felt with this role that we had to take on. And so what we do is we go into rebellion and then whenever we have the option to become more loving in our day-to-day life we automatically feel rebellion. We feel, "I don't want to do that, it is just caretaking for somebody again." Instead of feeling, "No we could actually give them the gift of our love."

Participant: That is what led to the question because I aspire to be a lot better than what I am. I suppose that is a silly thing to say because everybody does.

Yes, I don't agree that everybody does but go on. (Laughs)

Participant: Oh goodness.

Because there are people on the Earth who aspire to be worse than they currently are, that is how they become worse.

Participant: And so I find in interactions with people, I freeze up. There is a whole part of me, a big part of me now, that feels the caring towards them, listening and all of that, but there is still this other part of me that shuts me down and I go into rebellion and I have never understood it until just right now. So thank you again.

Ah that is good. It is a pleasure.

So for many of us this is why we avoid positive actions because many times we have yet to grieve the negative that occurred in our life. When you don't grieve the negative that occurred in your life, you then feel angry about having to take a positive action in a situation. [00:41:57.28]

Mary: But in that case isn't the best thing that we are learning today is to take the positive action because that is really the true way we are going to trigger that grief.

Exactly, taking the positive action is always going to help us.

Participant: So the real question was, maybe you have just answered it actually, is what is the positive step then? Because I find this is my Law of Attraction still.

Well in your example that you gave the positive step would be, "Okay I know that I am resisting hearing the person and there are only two possible reasons. One is that they are projecting at me that I have to listen to them and I am just sitting there listening to them because I feel like I have to, so that is one. And the second one is that I feel the feeling that I want to listen to them and so I am sitting there because I want to listen to them, I am giving them the gift of my hearing, if you like. I am giving them the gift of me being involved." Now if it's the second, you wouldn't have any negative emotions.

Participant: Now the interesting thing here is that this is what happens to me in the sleep state. I don't have any negative feelings from listening to spirits who come and tell me stories in the sleep state. But in interactions with people in face to face, I am still having this opposition of jumping back.

Now what you are doing is a bit unloving Jen, because now what you are asking me to do is to give you personal assistance on a personal issue...

Participant: Ah I'm sorry.

... that involves now a hundred other people's time. Can you see the difference? So your original question I'm happy to answer, we need to stop with that question because now we engaging a process that is only going to benefit you. Do you see? And I want to benefit everyone in this discussion.

So everyone understands that first point about free will, is that we can use our free will in just a slightly better condition of love in our soul and all of a sudden we will grow. [00:44:17.05]

Mary: However, babe just to clarify that, we have to be humble in that process don't we?

To our pain, yeah.

Mary: To our pain, otherwise it is not going to work.

If we are humble enough to our pain, the pain will just automatically ooze out of us and I use the term ooze because sometimes it doesn't pour out of us it just sort of oozes out of us over a period of days or weeks (laughs). But that is often what it does.

Mary: Otherwise we can take the step and end up being violent.

Exactly. If we take the step and we don't feel the pain then our anger will be triggered and then we are in a potentially dangerous situation of going downhill again.

Mary: Yes I was relating that to my own example when I met you, I felt like I wasn't taking a step, I was like trying to hurdle the stage where I could see what was going to be loving and what was truthful, but there was all this feeling in me. But because I wasn't humble to it, I actually felt rage.

Heightened resistance, higher resistance, higher resistance.

Mary: ... meanwhile trying to live what I could see was loving and truthful, but it didn't work.

It won't work like that, yes.

Okay so point number two is...

Mary: It is about if a person is only harming their own will.

2.2. If we only affect our own life then controlling our will is dangerous to our soul

If a person is only affecting their own life then controlling their will is very dangerous to our own soul.

2.2.1. An example of a person wanting to commit suicide

Let's say there is a person who is not spirit influenced at all, they have complete control of their own faculties. You have already discussed with them that if they commit suicide there would be certain negative consequences based on the different Laws of God and they still want to go ahead to commit suicide. Would you stop them? [00:47:22.03]

You see the general answer that most of the medical profession today would give you is yes you would definitely try to stop them even if it meant drugging them to the eyeballs and keeping them under control because they view somebody taking their own life as a major issue obviously. It is a major issue. So I am not saying it isn't, but it is not a major issue for anybody but the person themselves.

Participant: Is that like euthanasia?

Well euthanasia is a little different in that a person wants to die and then you assist them.

Participant: Isn't there a thing where they can just take some tablets, a whole bottle of sleeping pills beside their bed?

They could, that is up to them though.

Participant: And they told you that they are going to do that that night.

Yes they can tell you they're going to do it and you wouldn't prevent them from doing it.

Participant: So not even take their bottle of sleeping pills away from them? Or would you just leave them there and say, "Well if you want to do it, you can"?

Well if they bought the bottle of sleeping pills I certainly wouldn't be able to take them away. If I bought them, they're mine and I can certainly them away. So it depends who bought them. [00:48:48.06]

Participant: What if you bought them for them with their money or whatever? If you were looking after them?

I wouldn't have bought them. I don't buy sleeping pills for anybody under any circumstances. Can you see we can go through these scenarios and in the end there's an answer for everything if you're in a loving space. There are quite rapid answers actually.

Participant: So I'm just reading what you had written up on the board about it may be in harmony to limit free will of others if most love is present, so if you stick by those rules...

And you notice I use the word "may".

Participant: So if you apply that to the situation of suicide.

No I'm saying that this statement of "if a person is only affecting their own life then controlling their will is very dangerous to our own soul" is the proviso with this other statement of "it may be in harmony with love to limit the free will of others." In the sense that if the person is only affecting their own will and there is no other extenuating circumstances, then we've got to at some point allow them to do what they will to do.

2.2.2. An example of a son wanting to go hand gliding

Can I give you another example? Let's say your son who's twenty years of age. Some of you you're old enough to have a son that age. You love him a lot, but your son decides he want to do hand gliding, which is a potentially dangerous sport. He decides that for his very first hand gliding he's just going to jump off a cliff and see how he goes. It's probably not that advisable so there's now a lot of fear in the parent about what's going to happen to their son; but the son wants to do it, he wants to do it. It's very similar to sort of taking the first step out of an aeroplane with a parachute; you don't know whether the things going to open or not and potentially you don't know what's happening in terms of the packing of the chute and so forth. [00:50:51.03]

So the son might want to take that dangerous action. Now he's not affecting anybody else. Now a lot of people would argue, yes he's affecting me and I'm the parent and I'd cry a lot if he dies but that's not true, it's not affecting you at all. The only time he's going to affect you is if he has an accident and doesn't die, then it will affect you, so I'd definitely talk to him about that. If he's injured and then expecting me to look after him for the rest of his life then that's not a very loving choice, so I'd certainly speak to him about that.

But let's talk about the situation of him deciding to do it. He's deciding to do it, he's only affecting his own life at that particular moment to a degree shall we say, so we'd have to be very careful about what steps we took to limit his will under those circumstances, wouldn't we?

Mary: So if we had the emotion of love present within us, we wanted to give the gift of our love, we wanted to help him grow in that situation or...

So in that situation I've explained to my son, "Why do you want to do something that's potentially life threatening and potentially could injure you? Obviously there's an emotion that causes you to decide to do things that are dangerous." So I talk to my son about it then I would look into myself as to why my son also has such a strong desire to do a dangerous thing. There's got to be something inside of me that's caused suppression of his life in some way that would have caused him to come up with such an idea that he wants to go ahead and do something that's quite dangerous without planning it first and doing things first to make it as safe as possible. So I'd have to ask myself that question as well.

But in the end, it is his choice and in the end I don't have to look after him for the rest of his life if he has an accident either, do I? And I could say that to him up front, "I am not going to look after you for the rest of your life if you have an accident. However, you can go ahead and do whatever you like." You could actually say that and be completely in harmony with love, yes? But as soon as there's fear in me saying all of these things... what was fear from yesterday? An act of violence. Now I need to shut my mouth and not say anything at all, and feel my fear instead under those circumstances. If there's only love for him, then we would make statements but if there's fear now I am way out of line as a parent there.

2.2.3. An example of a person wanting to commit suicide (continued)

Now if there's fear in me for the person who is going to commit suicide then anything I say to him is an act of violence. Can you see that? But if there's not fear in me, I'm not afraid of him dying and I'm not afraid of him passing and I don't have any personal investment in him staying alive with me or passing and he wants to commit the act, I'm not going to help him commit the act, I'm going to try to dissuade him. I'm not going to be angry with him or afraid of the potential results, but out of love for him I would want to try to dissuade him from taking such an action knowing that it's going to degrade his condition. And I would say, "It's going to degrade your condition." [00:54:22.20]

And by the way I have had hundreds of these discussions with people in this life who've wanted to commit suicide and almost every single one of them has not committed suicide after having a discussion with them about what's going to happen after they pass.

So oftentimes you can change the person's will by giving them some extra truth about what will happen. But let's say you couldn't, would you then sit with the person twenty four by seven controlling their every move to prevent them from suiciding? You couldn't. Would you put them in a padded cell controlling them from suicide? You couldn't.

Now let's add another scenario to it. Let's say the person on Earth, your friend, is surrounded by spirits who often talk to them, and the person often hears these words. On Earth this is often called schizophrenia. I don't agree, to me it's called spirit attachments and influence. But what happens is these spirits are telling this person, "You should commit suicide, you should die, you should cut yourself, you should do this, you should do that," They're wanting to make the person commit suicide. And you know the person is not of a sound mind to make their own decision with this influence. What would you do then? Can you see your actions then would be very different, if you acted out of harmony with love?

The first thing you would want to do is remove the person from this influence and then let them make up their own mind. If they're being influenced by all these other people you would like to remove them from that influence before they go ahead and make the decision. [00:56:20.17]

If a man were being influenced to commit suicide by other people or spirits, it would be loving to remove them from the spirit influence

So for example if there was a cult and they all decided they were going to suicide on a certain day. What you have got then is a person who is now being heavily influenced by a group of people who are on earth. And these people are all going to die on a certain day, they are all going to take some cool aid and are all going to die on a certain day. Now if that person is your friend or someone you actually know, what would you do? Well isn't it exactly the same as the previous example I just gave where they were influenced by spirits? You would firstly need to remove them from that influence, if you could do so without any violence. You'd need to remove them from that influence and then let them make up their own choice if they want to die on that day.

Mary: However, we wouldn't do it from a space of fear would we?

We wouldn't do it because we were afraid of them losing their life, we wouldn't do it because we're afraid of seeing them on television, we wouldn't do it for any other reason other than we just love them. We wouldn't do it because we might miss them when they gone, we wouldn't do it for that reason either, because they are all selfish reasons motivated by fear. So we couldn't do it under those circumstances.

3. Spirit influence can be removed using a small electrical impulse

Participant: I'm just thinking about the person whose schizophrenic or spirit influenced.

Which is very similar to a person influenced by a cult.

Participant: So it's easy to physically remove a person who is surrounded by physical people but then how do you remove a person from spirit influence?

Ah there is a lot of very easy ways. Very easy ways actually. I heard Trevor actually had an easy way that happened the other day. You had an electrical pulsing foot bath, a foot massager, and any small electrical impulses - they immediately expel any spirits around you. You have got a little story about that? [00:58:39.03]

Participant: Sure.

Well not too long a story just a short one.

3.1. An example of a man alleviating his anger and resistance using an electrical foot massager

Participant: No, no. I was basically just triggered by Ange about money, and I have got a big issue about money and lack. I just went into a rage and did the projection of, "You have got this problem".

So you are in a rage with Ange, giving her hell for the issue, yes?

Participant: Yeah, so I went off up the bush cutting wood all day and just ignored it and probably did a lot of unloving things up there. When I come home I decided I am not going to talk, I am not going to say another word because...

That is it I have had enough of this woman.

Participant: ... I am in up to my neck now; I have done that much damage. So I went over and put my feet on this electric pulsing thing...

Electric pulsing foot massager.

Participant: ... and within half a minute I was just balling my guts out, all the repentance and all the issues around the stuff. But before that I suppose with spirit influence I just was just like a stone wall against it. So I thought well in that case it is loving to actually put the brakes on the spirits so that I can be on my own.

Exactly, so what happened was when you put your foot in the footbath, in the foot massager, there were small electrical impulses going through your body. Spirits cannot handle small electrical impulses in their body at all so they instantly exit the person, and now you're free to make your own choice. [00:59:53.12]

Participant: Yeah, it was almost instant. I'd been in it for eight hours, I was just in this real foul mood, you know, "That's the end of it I'm going blah, blah, blah..." But I just took the action, moved the spirits off and it was instant. So it just shows me how much control I give them all the time.

Exactly. So what you would need to address in the longer term is why you give these spirits control. So that is still an issue.

Participant: Yeah, I don't want to feel my emotions around lack or money, yeah.

Exactly so it's about the pain about lack. So can you see it's quite easy to remove the spirit influence if you know how? There are lots of different things that are quite simple little procedures we can follow in the course of a day which would actually remove the spirit influence and then we'd know whether this rage we're feeling is our own or somebody else's, and then we can then take steps.

So if you imagine if you were surrounded by a group of spirits who are just saying, "Kill yourself, kill yourself, kill yourself," all day and they're coming up with ways to kill yourself and all of that kind of stuff, you'd want to remove those spirits first rather than allowing this person to kill themself under their influence. So you give them a foot massage with an electric pulser or whatever (laughter) and the spirits have gone and then you can start to interact with the individual about the logic about their choice and decisions and so forth. Ange you want to say something? [01:01:13.09]

3.2. Expelling spirits is loving if it is done with an intention of love rather than anger

Participant: Yeah, the only question I had was, was it loving to the spirits?

Yes if I have a feeling of love rather than anger towards the spirits I'm restricting their will by using a technique that is temporary in nature; that is restricting their will. And if I have a feeling of love doing it, not rage or anything like that, then it's definitely in harmony with the principles that we learnt yesterday.

Participant: I've actually used it a couple of times with people that I've massaged as well. Before the massage I find they process a lot easier and more real.

Yes instead of having related spirit influences.

Participant: I was worried that I was causing myself damage.

No because what you're doing is you're temporarily restricting the influence of some spirits who are taking a step to damage a person and you're temporarily controlling them using your will out of love. You're not angry with them or upset with them, you're using it in harmony with love, so you're restricting their will and now you've given this person the ability to feel themself for a period of time. Obviously it's not a permanent solution because this person has had these spirits attached often for many years and they all come back afterwards probably. But at least you've given them some temporary release so they can see what they're really like by themselves. [01:02:34.14]

Participant: Yeah, we actually had that exact thing happen with a lady the other day.

Yeah, so it's actually a very loving thing that you can do for spirits and the person, if you have a feeling of love. If you had a feeling of rage, "I'm going to get rid of these spirits. Put them on the thing; stick your feet in there!" (Laughter) Sure they'll go but now you're restricting the will of the spirits in a very unloving manner and you've just degraded your condition.

3.3. An example of a woman who has surrendered her will to spirits

Participant: I was just wondering in the case of a person that has completely surrendered their will and is in that foetal position twenty four seven, relying on external care continuously...

Can I just stop you for a moment? You are almost a person who has completely surrendered their will to spirits but you are not in a foetal position twenty four by seven. Now can I illustrate what happens when we surrender our will to spirits?

Most of the time spirits want us to do things to get their addictions met. So it is highly unlikely that a person just staying in one place is always over-cloaked by spirits. I am not saying they can't be in that place, what I am saying is for most people who are over-cloaked, the spirits are actually influencing their day-to-day life and decisions quite markedly because the spirits want things through the body of the person.

That is what is happening for yourself in your life, and it is also what is happening for many spirits. So it would be nice one day for you to have some temporary relief from them, even if it was just a one hour foot massage, and you can get some relief. You could have some relief and you could feel yourself for the first time. That's a lovely gift that you can give to yourself, Renee.

Expelling spirits from a woman who is always over-cloaked can enable the woman to feel herself for the first time

3.4. Benefits of treating both people on Earth and expelled spirits during therapy

So this is where if you understand what's going on as a therapist or a health professional, you can help people markedly in very short periods of time by educating them about what's really happening in their lives. You are then free to feel your own emotions for a short period of time and the person who's with you can talk to you about why do you want these people with you? What do they give you? What is it that causes you to want them there? Because when they're there you are a different person. So many people you meet on a day-to-day basis are very, very different to their normal personality and the reason why is because there's often this heavy spirit influence.

And it is actually in harmony with love to restrict these spirits for at least a short period of time just to allow the person to see what they're like without them and what they're like with them, so they've got some idea. Also for the spirits to restrict them and then you can talk to the spirits.

So if you were a therapist working with a medium, you could have the therapist working with the person who's having the foot massage and then you can have a medium speaking to the spirits about why they are over-cloaking that person. Can you imagine the benefit of that? You'd have a double benefit of that, the spirits are getting some benefit out of the interaction now and the person is getting some benefit. You're loving both parties now. It's pretty good.

And in the book that Dr Carl Wickland wrote, "Thirty Years Amongst the Dead", that's basically what he was doing. So can you imagine how he arrived in the spirit world. He arrived in a very good condition in the spirit world because both he and his wife were involved in all of these very loving transactions with spirits trying to help the spirit and help the person.

Now of course their belief systems were a bit off and sometimes they were a bit attacking and judgemental and there was some negativity there, but on the whole there was a lot of love given to both the spirits and the individuals influenced by those spirits. [01:06:47.06]

3.5. Only mild electrical shocks are required to expel spirits

Participant: And I had always wondered whether he was using electro convulsive therapy (ECT) and it makes me think that ECT is not a very good thing to do to a person.

No I'm not suggesting ECT because ECT is oftentimes very high voltages. It's quite painful to the individual themselves, and that's not what I'm suggesting. You can actually put it on there and adjust the voltage.

Participant: Yeah. You can turn it right down.

And it can be just like a faint tingling sort of sensation, isn't it that what it feels like?

Participant: Yes it's very, very low you can turn it right down. It goes from one to ninety and we use it on about thirty.

And even on ninety you can't hurt yourself.

Participant: I haven't tried it on ninety; thirty is enough of a vibration. But down onto even ten you can just feel a tingling so you can just adjust it right down.

So something like that would be a perfect tool and then if you had a medium who loved the spirits and the person who's caring for the person, you can talk to the person about what's going on with their connection with the spirits while at the same time talk to the spirits about what's going on with the person. It would be a very, very loving thing to do and as you know in the medical profession, many people are often heavily over-cloaked by spirits and guided by spirit interactions. You can imagine how many people you could help using these techniques. [01:08:15.15]

Mary: I don't know if you want to put it in but there are actually some questions...

Medical questions.

Mary: ...about Mental Health Act and...

Have we covered the things we wanted to cover, we have, haven't we? Yes. So everyone understands that point about not acting against somebody's free will if they're not harming anybody else other than themselves. But you would still like to take loving actions to help them not harm themselves, wouldn't you? But you'd have to make sure it's a loving action and not a violent action. It's very important.

4. Audience questions about free will

4.1. Being loving towards society

Participant: I just wondered how we can be loving to the system as it continues to do those things that you are feeling are so unloving? Like how can we as people, who understand these issues, be loving to the system?

Well it's exactly the same way that we've discussed yesterday. By being angry with the system you are not loving the system and if you're afraid of the system, you're not loving the system. So again you've got to look at your own emotions that you feel towards the system. So the only way to change the system is to actually act with your free will in harmony with love and truth with any system, and that doesn't mean any act of violence. So we need to stop perpetrating acts of violence from ourselves to these systems, that's the way we love them. [01:08:15.15]

So if we look at any system, medical profession, the political system, the religious system, any other type of system, the only way we can possibly assist them is by removing all of our acts of violence from ourself towards that system, that's number one. That's the most important thing before we even do anything else. And then after that we can take actions in harmony with our will in harmony with love and truth with that system to help the system change. And that doesn't necessarily mean diving into the system, but it does mean that we want to engage the system in some positive way.

Most of us don't feel that way, we get afraid and we get angry and we don't want to even engage the system, we just want to condemn it and reject it. And you see lots and lots of criticism aimed towards systems that is really just rage aimed towards systems or fear aimed towards systems and you can't expect the system to change with that level of rage or fear aimed towards it.

Participant: You mentioned yesterday in Session 1 the concept of Divine Love police.

Divine Love police system yeah, we'll talk about today a little if we get to there.

We'll be having a number of sessions about free will because it does involve all of our life of course. There's a whole aspect that we have not even touched yet and that is the aspect of self discovery because it's only by utilising your free will in harmony with love that you'll ever discover yourself. And that's a whole seminar on its own. [01:11:24.29]

So what we're doing in this seminar is we're introducing the basic concepts of free will and then we're trying to give you some practical examples where those concepts could be used in practical situations. But understand there's a whole other series of talks we need to give you about how in fact our free will is used to grow and actually recognise ourselves and discover ourselves. So there's another whole aspect to our free will. So there are a lot of different aspects and we'll get to them as we go along.

So perhaps what we'll do now is we'll start engaging some of the questions that were asked yesterday. We're going to answer general questions firstly about free will and then I'm going to specifically hone in to the aspect of parents with children. I'll explain why when we get to that section as to why I'm honing into that one first. So let's do that.

4.2. Mankind's resistance has prevented the truth about free will from being previously delivered on Earth

Mary: Okay, so the first question is if this truth is so beautiful and powerful, why hasn't it been imparted on to Earth before? Is it our resistance?

The simple answer is yes. (Laughter) It's totally because of humankind's resistance to understanding free will. The reason why we're so resistant is all of us want to have our own will without respecting anybody else's, and that is our main problem. We want to do what we want without acknowledging that sometimes what we want damages other people and this is our primary issue. And this is the reason why we don't want to see free will in its true expression. [01:13:30.05]

So when I was on Earth in the first century I did not discuss this with people. But I did present, in my own life, the truth of this. So it's not accurate to say it's not the first time it's been presented. I presented it through the truth of my life but I didn't discuss the subject step by step as we did yesterday.

Mary: And in fact these truths are available to all of us if we activate our soul anyway, aren't they?

Exactly. You will all discover this truth not through believing me, but in your relationship with God you will discover the truths as you release your emotional impediments to understanding free will you will automatically discover the truth of how to use your free will. And these truths, which I've given you a bit of a fore gleam of, will become a reality to you through that process. You won't understand them at this point until you go through that process emotionally.

4.3. Differences between the expression of our will and God's Will as we grow in love

Participant: After hearing the deeper teachings yesterday for the first time on free will, is it true that in the end after taking the teachings and living them and going deeper into the heart, it then becomes God's Will and not mine? That's the freedom you speak of?

Well it's interesting you say that because this is a belief that's very Christian in nature and this is what a lot of Christians would have us believe. However, can I describe to you what actually does happen with regard to free will?

Firstly there's the issue of love. Once we become at-one with God we are now at-one with God in the way God displays love but we have complete freedom to display our will within the boundary of love, based on our own desire and not necessarily God's. So in other words, all God desires for us is to have the complete freedom to express our will in harmony with love. So we finish up doing anything we want to do and in fact because we now are in harmony with love there are more things that we can actually do. We do everything we want to do but it's in harmony with love in the terms of the expression. [01:16:30.00]

So when you say is it God's Will, it's just a semantics in the end because in the end, yes God's will for us is to do anything we want as long as it's in harmony with love. That's God's Will for us.

So yes we are then following God's Will but it's not like we've got somebody talking to us and saying, "You need to do this today." That's not how God works with us. In fact that's how many spirits do it. And I notice that many people who have been Christian being over-cloaked by similar spirits who basically tell them what to do today. Now God doesn't do that. The Christians on Earth often say, "God told me to do this today," but actually what God does is gives us opportunities through different attractions to express our will in a loving manner. Then we are able to make our own choice about that matter and that's what free will allows us to do. [01:17:25.16]

Participant: Thank you.

It's a good question.

Mary: (Reading the participant's question) Okay, what is God's definition of free will?

I've just given it to you yesterday.

4.4. Recognising when we are using our free will in a loving manner

Mary: (Reading the participant's question) What is the feeling within me or how do I know when I'm truly within free will - I'm assuming this means loving action in free will - for myself, others and the environment? Is there a recognisable feeling in the heart/soul that saves degradation in the first instance?

Well we described a lot of the feelings yesterday, but the primary feeling of course is love. So whenever you have a feeling of love. This is where we've got to be very careful because it's actually God's definition of what love is. So at the moment, Elaine, there are times when you think you're being loving, but you're actually feeling guilt or you're feeling some other emotion that you perceive as love and that is not the same as actually being loving. [01:18:32.21]

Remember yesterday you and I had the conversation about the aboriginal viewpoint of using a didgeridoo and your fear that you're afraid of offending somebody? So you think you were being loving to them by conceding to their viewpoint of the use of a didgeridoo but actually because there was fear, you were not actually being loving. You'd only be loving if there was no fear. And the fear you had was the fear of offending them.

So now we described all of that framework of free will yesterday and so it's all in the talk yesterday actually. So all of those things are in the talk yesterday. There are some spirits with you, if I can address this Elaine, that prevent you from exercising your own will and they actually assist you to exercise their will in many occasions. And this happens to many of us in the audience where we have spirits assisting us to exercise their will because we're abdicating our own will because of different fears or different angers that we have within us.

Participant: So that actually explains to me the end part of what were discussing yesterday. It now clarifies it; I'm feeling it more that when it's with fear and not with love, then yeah, it's not free will for anyone.

And it does also not love.

Participant: Or loving, no.

So if I'm actually doing something for somebody because I'm afraid of offending them, then I'm not loving them in that moment. I need to be doing something without the fear of giving offence. [01:20:23.18]

Participant: Thank you. And also for the electrical impulse, I feel a lot of us therapists.

Could be very handy.

Participant: For us before we do the session in fact.

Yes I agree for yourself in particular that would be beneficial.

Participant: And others as well that I've experienced. Thank you.

Yes. For many therapists are doing therapy because there's a couple of different feelings coming from the therapist. Sometimes the feeling coming from the therapist is more about trying to feel that they are better than the person they're giving therapy to. And so this is an indication that their feeling isn't loving in therapy. So unfortunately in today's world there are a lot of so-called loving things that happen that are actually driven by emotional holes within the individual doing the act. [01:21:19.01]

A lot of times we're drawn to a certain profession for no other reason than having some kind of addiction met inside of ourselves and that's why it feels so good for us when we do it. When we do it for love, it's not always going to feel good for us because sometimes you're confronting somebody else in truth and they attack you. It's not always going to feel good for us. Particularly if we're not at-one with God, it's not always going to feel good for us when we are acting lovingly.

4.5. How to exercise free will in a loving manner when we are full of error

Mary: Okay. (Reading the participant's question) If my soul is full of error, how can I exercise my free will in a loving way?

I think we've just explained that in that example of the soul taking a positive action that's just above itself in love. That illustrates how you can actually be in error and yet make a choice that's more loving than where you currently are.

Participant: I like the idea it only has to be a little step.

It only has to be a little step, yeah. You like that idea because you don't like making big steps but that's a different discussion. (Laughter)

Participant: Thanks for that.

4.6. How to exercise free will in a loving manner using our soul and mind

Mary: If free will applies to the soul, then how can my actions be loving when my mind decides my actions?

The answer is they can't. So it's quite simple. If your mind is deciding actions then they can't be as loving as if your soul decides the actions. However, can I just point something out to you with regard to that? Remember our previous scale where we're at one and a half in our level of love. And we're driving along the road, in the example I gave, and there's a person pulled over on the side of the road. They need assistance and they flag us down, and we would normally just drive past. So at this point we have a choice. Now your mind is involved in this choice and your soul is involved in this choice so if your soul has a true desire to grow, you'll probably want to make the choice. [01:23:31.05]

Participant: And that's sometimes a feeling?

It's a feeling that causes your mind to go, "I think I'll stop this time," and sometimes it's prompted by some spirits with you who badly want you to grow in love. So they're looking for opportunity after opportunity that they can go, "If we drop a thought into Natalie's mind, this is an option she can take to grow in love." And so they drop the thought into your mind and you go, "Okay, I can do that," so on go the brakes and away you go and now you are taking a positive step that exceeds your current condition in love. And that enables you now to potentially grow.

Making a choice to be more loving than usual raises our condition of love

Now there's going to be some pain in this. So you have to just allow whatever pain comes up. Now for some people the pain is just smidgen and it's usually a lot less than what they imagined it would be. But sometimes it can be quite a lot of pain, depending on the circumstance. But at least we've taken the action that's more positive and in harmony with love and now we're at that point.

So what we've done is we've now give the ability for our soul just to grow a little bit through this process. Now that's how your mind can assist you.

Participant: In a positive way.

In a positive direction, you take an action and now your soul is benefitting from the result of that action. So our mind can certainly assist us in taking actions that will eventually grow the love of our soul, but we cannot expect to take these actions one after the other after the other with our mind all the time and expect our soul to grow without there being some release of a painful emotion that would normally cause us to not take such action and eventually we get there. [01:25:19.01]

So this is how people on the Natural Love Path progress – they use their mind to make a more loving choice but they don't release the emotion that causes it to be there. But then they use their mind to make another loving choice and another loving choice and another loving choice and eventually their soul does deal with some emotion. So it does eventually catch up emotionally, but they're not focussed on dealing with the emotion, they're focussed on making the loving choice with their mind. And I'm saying you need both. You need to make the loving choice with your mind and feel the emotion so that your emotional condition gets to where your mind drew it to, if you like.

Participant: Yes, thanks.

4.7. Feeling pain when we take an unloving action

Mary: So I just have a question if that is alright, it is very on topic. (Laughs)

No you are not allowed to ask. (Laughs)

Mary: I find now that I have a lot of pain if I don't take a loving action. Like for example if I avoid something that I know it is out of harmony with love, I know there is a fear about taking that action but I just find I am in so much pain if I don't.

Yes. So we need to describe what is happening there. When we first begin the process of coming towards God, we are not very conscious or sensitive to our own emotional condition, our own state, wouldn't you agree? We are not really sensitive at all. So you could say that we are basically, let's use the term insensitive. You're basically insensitive to your own emotion, you're pretty insensitive to people around you except where your addictions are in play and then you're very sensitive, but generally we're quite insensitive to anything else. [01:27:16.07]

So what happens after a while is we start dealing with some underlying emotions that cause insensitivity and all of these emotions that generate insensitivity are usually based on our angers, what makes us angry. That is what causes us to be insensitive. Does everyone get this so far? It is anger that creates all of our insensitivities.

When we release our anger and we no longer use our anger as an excuse. So we no longer say to ourselves, there is a justifiable anger. So we no longer justify anger inside of ourselves because we've released enough of it to know that it's not the actual stuff that we need to be focussing on and we no longer actually have this self justified righteous feeling every time something happens to us where we justify our own rage or our own anger.

Once you get to that point, you are now much more sensitive. So the insensitivity has now been transformed because you have released a lot of the anger that creates insensitivity. So now you are sensitive. You've become sensitive.

Releasing anger enables us to become more sensitive

Now that you are sensitive you are able to feel when an actual or potential action is going to be damaging because you are now sensitive to the feeling, and it is only our desensitisation to feeling that causes us to not know when something is potentially loving or unloving. Does that explain it?

Mary: Yeah it does.

So what's happening to Mary is that she has released quite a lot of anger and rage over a period of what three and a half years probably, we'll say, and as a result of that you are now much more sensitive.

Mary: And it just gets worse and so I feel like it is like life is pain until I take the action in harmony with love. And sometimes that triggers the pain that you were talking about before.

But it is a different kind of pain you are feeling now isn't' it?

Mary: Yes there is this horrible pain of feeling like I am out of harmony with love here, I am out of harmony with love here.

There is the pain of doing the wrong thing.

Mary: Yeah and it actually it...

And it is greater than.

Mary: ... comes down to what is the lesser of the two pains? Actually the lesser pain is to say the truth to the person or to take the action.

So once you get into this sensitive state, what you start realising is that the greater pain is when you don't act lovingly and the lesser pain is your pain that you need to release, which was the cause of you not acting lovingly, you choose your pain instead of choosing to correct pain. [01:30:05.19]

Mary: This is why I think, you know, there's an old joke that the path should come with a warning because you can't stop then. You're in this thing where there's pain if you don't do a certain thing. It's just this open, open thing. I can see it's beautiful but sometimes I feel so overwhelmed by that process that it never stops.

Yeah so the real goal is to get over our insensitivity by actually feeling our way through our rage. Once you feel your way through your rage, you will become automatically sensitive and you won't be able to do something that is out of harmony with love then. And in fact even if it is painful acting in harmony with love you will still choose that because the pain about acting out of harmony with love is too great for you to bear.

Mary: Yes, I feel for me it is not just been releasing anger but false beliefs.

4.8. How the laws of love enter our hearts

Mary: This probably leads to the next question from Natalie, which is what prevents the laws of love from entering our hearts?

What prevents the laws of love from entering our hearts? It's always the same things. It has to do with the level of our resistance. Love will always enter our heart once we are no longer blocking it and all of the blocking types of emotions are based around two primary feelings. What are they? Anger or fear.

So after you work your way through your anger, you feel your way through your anger and you start allowing yourself to feel your fears, now there is no resistance to love entering you. So you can still be in a state of fear but you allow yourself to feel it, now there is no resistance to love entering you. Now you can grow through any action and if you're not addicted to avoiding your own pain, you'll find it a relatively seamless process. [01:32:09.00]

And like Mary said, you feel in that quandary of feeling that I can't do the bad thing because that feels worse than doing the good thing. But the good thing feels pretty bad too because I've got all this emotion about it and it is scary and painful. But you still go ahead with the good thing because the bad thing is worse in terms of the pain that it creates inside of you.

Mary: So are you saying that is how the laws enter us is through the love entering us?

Exactly. So as the love enters us, now we automatically understand the law. So for many of us we will not actually emotionally understand these laws that I've presented until a certain amount of love has entered us and then we'll go, "Ah I not only understand it intellectually now, but I can automatically do this now. I don't have to think about it anymore, I automatically address something." So when someone is in that state or a different state that we've described, we automatically know exactly the right thing to do in that situation. And that's because so much love has entered us that now our heart has changed so much that we can automatically recognise what the most loving thing is to do in any situation.

And this why I said yesterday we've got to be very careful with what we presented yesterday because we could intellectually try to understand all of that, and many of us do intellectually understand when I present it. But in our day-to-day lives we can't act it yet because there's all this resistance still inside of us to acting it and that has to come out of us before we'll truly grasp the principles. [01:33:51.05]

5. Free will and parenting

Mary: So now we're going to move onto to parenting questions.

Right, awesome, I like parenting questions.

Mary: I have a few questions to pose before we launch into the audience questions. So basically you've presented to us a lot in the past, a lot of truths about how children reflect our emotions and that the most loving thing to do is to own our own emotions, and that's how to parent, yeah? So yesterday you talked about restricting the free will of a child through parenting. So I guess what I'm asking is, are we marrying these two concepts?

Yes we have to. We have to marry these two concepts. So as a parent, the things that I would be looking at would be the parenting discussions that we did a couple of years ago. I'd look at all of those things again. I've noticed that many of you parents have actually avoided those discussions quite strongly and in fact that's why in that discussion there were very few parents around because a lot of times we are very confronted as parents about what is the right way to parent.

Mary: And can I say as well there's an excellent seminar outline attached to that discussion because in that discussion we didn't get to cover a lot of the content that we'd planned.

So what I would do then is I'd marry that with this free will discussion and put all of the things together.

Mary: Because they actually fit together, don't they?

They do.

Mary: It's not that they contradict each other at all.

5.1. An example of AJ disciplining his son in a manner out of harmony with love

So I have given you the example of my son Tristan who is now twenty eight years old. But when he was a little tyke, I think he was about one or not much older, he was sticking the knife that he had hold of into the electric power socket all the time. So I had come along and all of a sudden he was there. Now as a parent you come along and you see that happening, what is your first response? Fear was mine. That is an act of violence, is it not? [01:36:00.03]

Mary: Which you followed with?

Which I followed with, what did I do? I pulled him away; give him a tap, an initial tap, not very big, I let him go. What does he do? Goes back puts the thing in the socket. What is happening now? From my damaged condition I am thinking, "He is rebelling, I have got to quash this rebellion." How many of you parents have felt that? (Laughter) Can you feel the feeling of, "I have got to quash this rebellion"? (Laughter) You can imagine a political ruler going, "I've got to quash this rebellion!" And so the next act is an act of anger, which is another act of violence.

Mary: And your physical act as well is an act of violence.

And then I make the physical act of giving him a smack. So the actual action of punishment, let's call it physical violence, which is really another act of violence. Yes, my poor old soul did not go well that day.

Okay, so I get him up, give him another smack because I have to quash the rebellion. So I give him a smack and let him go. And back to the socket. So he is feeling rebellion now isn't he, he is definitely feeling rebellion and I am now in an act of "Who's the most powerful person here?" aren't I? So now my sense of power is being confronted. I want power now, I am trying to get power, another act of violence. Like I said my soul didn't do well that day. And then we cycle between physical violence and power until I won, which, when you think about it, is almost what nations do with each other. Back and forth, back and forth, back and forth who is the most powerful? The one with the most guns, they win, or the most people to feed as fodder to the guns, they win. [01:38:38.22]

Now that is a very damaging process for my own soul, obviously also a very damaging process for my son Tristan. And in fact my son Tristan is right now still dealing with some of these emotions caused by this one event. It was the only time I ever did it but it was a significant event. So a big issue, hey?

Mary: So what you have said in the past is that it would have been better to let him put the knife in the socket and die rather than do what you did.

Yes and I agree with that statement completely. I would have been better off letting him put the knife in the socket and die than take this action.

Mary: And why is that?

Because, I damaged my own soul and his, through taking these actions. So he obviously now has had to deal with lots of pain as a result of these actions. So he would have been better off dying without that emotional pain than he would be living with all of that emotional pain. It would have been better off. But there is a third option, which I have not discussed with you.

Mary: Let's explore the third option.

So you are going, "What? What? You should let him die? You should let him die? No, no!" And I say, no, no there is a third option that we need to discuss. And it is the third option that we need to take really which is the most loving option.

5.2. How to discipline children in harmony with the loving use of free will

So, what is the third option? It is a situation that requires an immediate response because there is an immediate life threatening issue. So it requires immediate response. So we need to know how to respond to these immediate situations that require an immediate response. But we need to do such a thing without perpetrating a large number of acts of violence. So what would we do? [01:40:43.21]

Participant: Limit his free will.

How would you do it?

Participant: From a place of love to hold him, and take the knife away.

So it is a physical thing firstly. So I have to hold him. The problem with taking the knife away is that he is probably going to pick up some other knife at some point in the future when I am not around and probably stick it in the same socket.

Participant: So holding him will actually get him into the emotions as well as myself.

Exactly, so holding him firstly would be with one thing. This would help me deal with my own emotions as well about the issue. So I am holding him, now the first thing I need to do is address my emotion while I am holding him. So the first thing I need to do is address my fear because my fear is causing some of his response.

So the first thing I need to do is feel my fears about what he just did. Now that might take a little while, but obviously I was afraid of him dying and I have to look at why I am afraid of my son dying because in the end death is no such thing, there is no such thing as death; it is just an imaginary state that most of us on Earth believe is possible that is impossible, that is the reality of death. [01:42:02.06]

And I keep saying this to you as an audience but most of you are still terribly afraid of death and you are even more afraid of a violent one. You are more afraid of violence than you are of death even. For many of us, we'd rather die without violence than we would die with violence. So the majority of us are terribly afraid of violence and a little less afraid of death but not much.

Mary: I have a question. I am the guardian of this child who is just coming to understand themselves as individuals with free will, with a gift from God of life.

And a gift from me of a knife, because a knife is a gift. We use a knife for doing a lot of things that are very helpful for our life yes? You find that is the case? Do you have a knife at home? Okay so you definitely...

Mary: So you are talking about your fear of his death, which I can see is an act of violence, but there is an alternate place you could be, which is a love for him and a loving desire for him to understand this gift of life that he has.

Yes imagine for a moment that I came to this situation with the thought, "Wow this is a great way to teach my son who is only just one year old discovering the use of his will. Now this is a fantastic opportunity. This is an opportunity to teach my son in a loving manner the Laws of God about free will and this is fantastic. I can take some action here which will actually help my son learn about the principle of free will." But of course I need to have to deal with some of my fear to do this, to have that attitude. [01:44:09.02]

So I hold my son and restrict him, he has still got the knife in his hand, what is this teaching him so far? What would it teach you so far? So what is the answer Barb, do you feel? What would it teach you?

Participant: That my free will's restricted.

Your free will is being restricted.

5.2.1. Teaching a child who is not old enough to comprehend verbal language

Now my son is not yet verbal so he is not yet able to understand my words, so how do I teach a truth when he can't understand words? So what do I do then?

Participant: Love him.

I can love him but that is a very basic answer that is like almost a rote one shall we call it that. Come on let's be more specific.

Participant: Why can't he understand words?

Well because he is too young. He hasn't got vocabulary and he hasn't got language.

Mary: Ange taught babies to read so she feels that...

Well no that's the case when there's an age when they're not intellectually developed enough to even understand language or words.

Mary: I would say more complex reasoning things.

So he can't understand.

Mary: So if you said to him, "If you stick the knife in the power point, you're going to die," I don't think he'd understand that enough.

And he doesn't understand about death, he doesn't understand death, he doesn't understand electricity, he doesn't understand much pain, he doesn't understand what an electric shock feels like, so there's quite a lot he doesn't understand. I can use all those words but they all mean nothing. Ange is cross about that, we can come back to that. (Laughs)

Participant: Could you look like acting, like pretend to do it yourself and pretend to die.

You can, yes. This is a great way to teach a child, particularly a child who's not verbal but also a child that is verbal, great way to teach a child, yeah. So you can have one of the parents holding the child, still with his knife in his hand because we don't want to make him afraid of the knife, the knife's not the problem is it? So Ange you want to raise your issue you had with it? (Laughs) [01:46:30.20]

Participant: I guess I just feel that when we talk to a child no matter how young they are, if there is the love and the words and the...

Ah, so this is what I'm looking for. So keep going with this. What's the feeling you would project at your child? How can you inculcate without words and feel?

Participant: I would feel that I was trying to educate the child, that's what I feel I'd done.

Yes so let's go for the feeling because it's the feeling that they're going to feel from you.

Participant: Yeah. I don't feel I had fears of those sorts of things when I had young children.

But that didn't stop your children from doing dangerous things. Even now your children decide to do dangerous things because they do not understand the limits of their own free will, like that's how they get broken legs and that's how they get the things that your children have had in the past. Broken arms, broken legs, broken bodies, bones...

Mary: No, never. (Smiles)

Never?

Participant: There was a case yesterday. (Laughter)

There was a case yesterday?

Participant: Well she just told me that our son had a fight with a reef, he was surfing you know...

Okay so here we go. So you've got to be careful of your own denial as a parent here, Ange. So what you do is you realise they're obviously still in this state where they don't really understand the limits of their will yet because otherwise they wouldn't have accidents or anything like that at all, ever.

So we need to understand that there's obviously some more work to do there and I agree we can inculcate into a child these principles without the words. We often use the words but it's the feelings that accompany our words that are the important thing. So we're holding the child, what are the feelings we're going to need to do? Like what are feelings we're going to need? And don't say love because we've already covered that. (Laughs)

Participant: If you're holding the child, if you actually started to experience some of your fear and dropped into your grief, the child would feel in a way of a sadness and even connect with the emotion of why...

No they won't. If you truly are feeling your grief or your fear, your child won't feel anything from you.

Participant: The connection of you actually dropping into your emotions would instil in the child some sort of idea that he's doing something wrong?

No they won't and he's not doing anything wrong is he? He's not doing anything wrong, he's allowed to stick the knife in the socket; we're just limiting his free will to teach him something. We've got to stop seeing it as wrong or right and start seeing it as he would be better off living longer on Earth than the spirit world whilst he's got this opportunity, so we need to teach him something. That's all it's about. [01:49:34.17]

Participant: You're trying to teach him something...

Yes what are we trying to teach him?

Participant: ... care for his wellbeing because death may not be the consequence of sticking the knife in, it could be a severe burn...

Or a shock.

Participant: ... or severe shock. So it's a lesson from a point of love from the parent to a child that you're trying to impart through feelings.

So it's tricky now, isn't it? Can you see how hard it is for us as parents because when feelings are involved we're still floundering, aren't we? A lot of us are still floundering; we don't even know what to do with our feelings. So it's really hard to now give our child a feeling or help our child understand something through our feelings.

Participant: And the fear and the panic of that situation is clouding our judgement and so we're not actually able to...

Of course. So can you see that your fear... and probably fear is too lesser word to use, it's often the parent is in terror at this point. This is a very, very damaging emotion to the child because they're now associating this light socket and the knife with terror.

So there are a lot of very negative associations now going on inside of the child.

Mary: And in fact the use of their will with terror in a parent.

Yes. So it's a very damaging situation. So we need to feel this terror ourselves, we can't project it outwards. Projecting outward is an act of violence that is not good for the child, it's not good for us and the child unfortunately is going to put a lot of things together that are very untrue. [01:51:24.13]

And you know what people call the subconscious? You know, "Why do I do that? It seems like I feel driven to it." It's often because something like this happened in our childhood where there was a relationship between something the child was doing and the parent's emotion and this relationship gets established inside their emotions and their mind and now they carry that relationship for the rest of their life. There's a relationship between knives and my mother being scared, or in many cases a spider or a snake with my mother being scared, so now I'm scared. Now I have phobias as a result of these relationships.

5.2.2. Feeling terror as a parent

So we need to get firstly our terror under reign. So the best potential option at this point, you could say at the beginning, is to hold the child and let it hold the knife or whatever. Obviously you don't want it to stab you with it or anything like that, and you would then just allow yourself to feel your own terror because there is a high likelihood that the child is only sticking the knife in the socket to trigger your terror.

Because remember such a young child like a one year old child is almost fully experiencing your emotions that you are denying so there is a very high likelihood that the child is sticking the knife in the socket only just to trigger your terror. So the first thing you need to do is feel your own terror. So hold the child, restrict its actions. Now in the holding of the child and restricting its actions the child may then start going through some emotions of its own, where it feels like it's being controlled, but you need to do it for its own safety, so you keep a hold. But you still need to experience your own terror. You need to feel your own terror. [01:53:25.12]

Mary: I feel you have to own your terror before you grab your child.

Well it's sometimes pretty hard to do in the moment. You need to sort of grab the child, get them away for safety at the same time you start owning it really. But it's hard to do in the moment so just hold the child, feel your terror and breathe and allow yourself to feel how terrified that was.

5.2.3. Allowing the child to release its feelings of rebellion

Now you'll know when you deal with your terror in this situation. If the child stops squirming and the child is nice and calm and you release the child and it doesn't go back to the socket, then you know you've dealt with some of your terror. But if you hold the child and its squirming, now there's another issue for the child in that it wants rebellion and therefore you would have to continue holding the child until this rebellion comes out of the child.

So I would hold the child some more until they expressed their rebellion, which will come out through rage. Then they will go into a place of grief and they'll have a cry and then you'll be able to let them go. And if you've dealt with your terror, they won't go back to the socket, but if you haven't deal with your terror, they will go back to the socket. Then you hold them again but this time because they have already dealt with that previous experience of rage and anger and then into their grief, they won't squirm and they won't feel enraged, they'll just sit there patiently waiting for you to deal with your terror, and then you know you'll be able to let them go. And while you're in your terror, they will not respond to that terror, they won't trigger it, they won't act upon your terror. [01:55:12.29]

Can you see the process if I describe the process as a generic description because we need to sort of get the understanding of it and how it works?

Mary: Because babe, is it fair to say that when a child is very small, as we know, they're just completely reflecting the denied emotions in the parent, so...

They may have some injuries because from the moment of conception onwards children get injuries. So by the time they're one year old they will have some injuries emotionally, but they are almost a complete reflection of the parents' injuries at this point.

Mary: So if we own our emotions the child is likely to respond. If the child does not respond they have an injury of their own, an addiction of their own, and this is the case where we would restrict their will. That's the only time we ever would to help them understand their will better and release their emotion.

Exactly.

Mary: Because for people who went out of body yesterday and the kids went off, if they had just come back into body, many of the children would have just calmed down. And this is what I was trying to say about marrying the two things - if you apply the first; well then you'll see now what's in your child and how you can assist them.

5.3. Summary of how to restrict a child's free will in harmony with love

Yes so let's summarise the process I think that's probably wise. So the first step I would have to take is I have to determine whether the issue is life threatening or not. Usually we know straight away by the amount of terror we have, as to whether it's life threatening.

5.3.1. The adult's or parent's action

If it's life threatening we take immediate restrictive action. Now at this stage we don't know whether our action is loving or unloving because most of the time we have to react immediately. So we don't understand whether it's loving or unloving, we just have to take immediate restrictive action. And the second thing we need to do immediately is feel our own response to the event. [01:57:39.04]

So I've taken the restrictive action of holding the child, it's not an act of violence or it could be an act of violence if I don't do the second thing. If I do it and I stay in my fear and I project at the child and yell and scream at the child then now it's an act of violence. If I do it projecting all my terror to the child and projecting all anger to the child or whatever, now it's not an act of violence. It depends on what we do with the second point. So we need to immediately feel our own response to the event while we're in the process of restricting the child.

Now it's very important that we feel the emotions in there. So usually we'll find there are emotions of maybe terror and if we're not feeling our terror there will often be emotions relating to anger, like rage, where we really get upset. These are emotions we need to feel first and allow ourselves to feel, while we're still holding the child.

Now there's something going to be going on for the child. If the child does not have an emotional injury about what you've just done, the child will not respond in any rage or anger itself. So the child will just calmly go, "Yeah mum's going through something again, and so it goes." That's the feeling the child has, the feeling is natural within the child you will find. If you experiment with this with your own children you will find that your life will change within days compared to spending years and years of trying to browbeat them intellectually into a place of understanding truth. So you feel your own response to the event.

5.3.2. An example of AJ restricting other parent's children

Now the child is in a concurrent event. Now this is the adult's or the parent's action, and by the way I would do it with your children. A lot of you wouldn't do it like that, but I would do it with your children and some people have found that. I've had a child come up and smack me and I've just restricted immediately.

It happened the other day with little Benny. He immediately went into a rage from being restricted and I just kept holding him. There were about sixty people present in another room so I took him out, kept holding him. A lot of you might have been present and actually heard his response, which wasn't too pretty, and then of course I had everybody walking up and down the street looking at me why am I holding on to this screaming raging child and I still held onto him.

He wasn't my son but he had attacked me and therefore it was my responsibility to address it emotionally. Now he had attacked me because of some emotions of mum and dad being reflected in him and so I could talk to mum about those emotions. But I'm still holding him because now he's going through a process. His process is he's being restricted from taking a violent action and he's in a rage because he still wants to take violent actions, so I restrict him. And I restrict him, and I restrict him and I restrict him and if I had been given the license to continue doing so I might still be there restricting him. (Laughter) If it took that long. [02:01:34.08]

Now with children it very rarely takes that long. Like the longest I've ever seen it take was with a child who was a three-year-old child, and it took him about an hour and a half of being in a rage. You have to hold them so it means holding your child for an hour and a half screaming, kicking, crying, and carrying on.

Mary: And maintaining a feeling of love for him the whole time.

And maintaining a feeling of love towards the child and not going into anger or fear about the process, or fear about what other people think of you or any of those kinds of things. Now after about an hour and a half of this one child, he just relaxed completely and went into grief. Then you can grab them and hold them and nurse them through their grief, just hold them and let them feel their grief. And he sobbed for about fifteen minutes, that's all it took. Then he was over it and then he asked for some strawberries. That's what it's like with children; once you're over the issue it's like gone and everything's forgiven.

And so this is the thing we need to allow. So that's the adult's action.

5.3.3. Action to take according to the child's response

You need to keep the restrictive action but this restrictive action is now based on the child's response to this restrictive action. So if the child's response is anger, rage and so forth then we need to maintain the restriction. If the child's response goes into grief, then we can release the restriction. I'm not saying like a rageful grief, where he's kicking and screaming and crying at the same time - that's rage still. If the child's response is nothing, so in other words they don't have any rage or anger, no grief, they just look at us and think we're a bit silly then we just release immediately.

Now if I took that action every single time something happened that was out of harmony with love, not just when their life is threatened but every single time something's out of harmony with love with the child, usually within three days the child is almost a completely different person. And if we continue the action for another twenty days or so, generally all of the spirit attachments with the child leave the child as well. [02:04:42.04]

5.3.4. Addressing the causal emotions in the parent

Mary: But again we have to acknowledge that the child got into this state because of our behaviour in our soul so unless we deal with our soul, it's just going to re-happen.

Exactly and this is where the parent has to continue sincerely addressing the causal and effect emotions.

Mary: And the truth is most of us as parents are so resistive to that process that we resort to acts of violence doesn't we?

Yes. Most of us are really resistive at sincerely addressing the causal and effect emotions. Can you see that once the situation's over you throw it away and forget about it and we need to make sure now that we maintain it because otherwise the child's just going to engage another event, another event and another event. And eventually we'll restrict the child and it won't respond in anger, it won't respond in grief and it will just look us at again and go, "Ah, mummy or daddy still hasn't dealt with that. When are they going to deal with that? They keep restricting me out of their terror," and after a while we'll learn actually I don't need to restrict them out of my terror I just need to go into my terror and then they'll be all right.

Mary: Yeah and actually I've obviously got issues about being restricted through terror because we start to absorb the terror; we start to feel afraid if...

No we don't absorb terror that's felt by our parents; you only absorb terror that is not felt by our parents.

Mary: I agree but if we're still clinging to them all of the time we've got to question whether we're actually feeling our terror.

Of course.

5.4. An example of a child attacking an adult

Now if we look at a different type of event where it's not terror that drives it but it's some other thing. For example the child comes up and hits us, what would you do? Grab the child, restrict it.

Now most children who come up and hit us have a combination of two things happening. One is that their will is being thwarted already by somebody else and they want a way to express it and so forth. We don't have to worry about any of those things, all we do is we restrict the child because it shouldn't have hit us, it just shouldn't have hit us and we just restrict the child until such a time as the child gets over its rage and into its grief about hitting us. Then we just let the child go, that's all we need to do. [02:07:16.25]

Now if I did that with love, that's one thing but if I did that with rage and go, "Grr, this kid hits me all the time," and off I go, now I'm committing an act of violence of my own, which wouldn't be loving. So that's quite simple. We let that happen and everything's fine.

6. Teaching children and adults about the loving use of their free will

Now can I discuss the reason why I've brought up children and parents first? Because this same principle applies almost across the board with every single person you could ever meet, and I'll describe why in a minute.

6.1. Teaching children about the use of their free will

Participant: In the case of the child with the knife, he is really just dangerous to his own soul so is it only because that his own free will is not developed that it's a different situation?

Yes it's an opportunity to teach the child about the correct use of their free will. There are many things in life that we need to take care in the process of discovery of otherwise we can kill ourselves. So for example if you want to discover gravity, there's a couple of ways you can do it. One way is you can just put a little tiny stool up and then jump off it and you hit the ground. The other way is you could climb a great big cliff and jump off it and you'll still hit the ground but you'll have discovered that it was a permanent lesson; you're now in the spirit world.

So what we need to do is teach our children when there is something that they do not know or understand that they need to take more care in the process of discovery. This is a major life lesson. If it's something we don't know, we need to take care in its discovery and then we'll know. But if we dive straight in with a certain type of discovery, like with electricity for example, or we dive straight in with gravity we feel we could throw ourselves out of a tree.

I remember as a kid I tried doing that quite a few times and you know I tried flying out of a tree; I strapped a tarpaulin to my back and all sorts of things. (Laughter) So you discover these things. But sometimes there are a few little problems in the process and what you want to do is teach the child that there is a way you can do these things still without fear, but you need to take care in the sense of there are potential dangers and we need to take care with these potential dangers. That's something the child needs to understand. [02:09:46.26]

So if we can teach the child that, every opportunity possible, they'll get to go, "Okay there's a stove there and there's a fire in it and I know fire from before because when mum showed me a fire, they built a fire and they put my hand near the fire, not too much to get burnt but you could feel that it was really hot and then it got too hot you could pull your hand away. That's stove got a fire in it so if I touch that stove now maybe I'm better off just sort of licking a finger and touching the stove and just seeing if it's hot first." And there is a process then that the child discovers through this discovery of its environment. And we need to engage that process is what I'm suggesting. we don't want to throw them in the deep end, as the saying goes, and expect them to discover all of these uses of their free will because they won't survive very long if we do that.

6.2. An example of talking to a person wanting to commit suicide (continued)

Participant: Can we apply that same teaching principle to an adult? So in the case of suicide would we start by trying to teach them first, but then you give them their free will.

Yes, exactly. So I've had many people ring me up and say, "Look you know how you've been teaching about the spirit world and all those things? I've often felt like I should die like there's no point in me being here." And so they ring me up and they say, "I've decided this Friday I'm going to kill myself. What do you think about that?" And so I go through with them what I think about that, what's going to happen, what happens when they pass. And then we discuss some of the emotional reasons why they want to die, what are the underlying feelings and why they want to die. And after we've discussed those things in almost every case they don't choose to suicide that Friday.

If somebody gives you the opportunity, it's great to take the opportunity and explain to them the underlying purpose but without controlling them. So I wouldn't go into a panic and then go, "I'm going to have a group of people come over, and we'll do an intervention. What we'll do is they'll grab you and they'll put in a straight jacket and these other guys will pump some drugs into you and then we'll get this happening and that happening and we'll chuck you into a mental asylum. And we'll do some electric shock therapy just to help you through the process and then hopefully after all of that you won't feel like killing yourself." You can see the difference between the reactions. So they are half dead already and you've done a lot of terrible actions. [02:12:13.26]

So the reality is that every single person on the planet needs to be taught. We're all learners; we all need to be taught something. So I need to be taught something, you need to be taught something, everybody does. So if we understand the process of learning that we need to take care with it then that's a great lesson to learn. If a child learns that when they're one or one and a half, wow that's a powerful thing. They could now have confidence in the discovery of every single truth and know that they won't hurt themselves if they follow a little type of procedure that they've got that they understand at the soul level. And that's a really powerful lesson.

6.3. Teaching children about the use of their free will (continued)

Mary: I just wanted to go to Maurie because his question is along those lines. His question was if a child was acting in a potentially life threatening manner, is it acting in God's Love and Truth to limit the will by stopping them in that activity? You've obviously answered that but I just wanted to make sure it covered everything.

So basically I've answered that question. Yes it loves if you act without violence; it is definitely loving to do so. And if we act without violence we'll obviously teach our child something in that process as well.

Mary: And from what you're talking about, AJ, it seems like a lot of what our parents did in terms of action would have been potentially very beneficial to us if there weren't the violent emotions associated with it.

Exactly. The biggest problem that a child has in its developing life is not the actions the parent took but the emotions with which the parent took action.

Mary: And this is why you're always emphasising to us that as parent the best thing is to own your emotions.

Exactly, yeah. Can I point out, the reason why we've gone through this is very important and I want to just say these things to you because it might sound quite funny, but this is something that we need to consider. Every single one of us is still a child but we've just got a different body. Many of us have five year old, two year old emotions stuck right inside of us. And many of us have five year old or two year old undeveloped sense of our free will. In other words most of us have no idea how to exercise our free will in harmony with love. We've no idea how to restrict somebody else's free will in harmony with love. So almost the same kind of treatment will apply to us, we're the child. [02:14:57.00]

6.4. An example teaching an adult murderer about free will

So let's make this child an adult now who decides to murder somebody. What do we do? We maintain a restriction and let them go through their anger and rage and then once they get into their grief, we can release the restriction. It's the same principle. Let's take it further though as an adult - what else do they need to learn? They need to learn self-responsibility, so would we restrict using the penal system, would we restrict a person without giving them the means to produce their own life and responsibility for their own life? No we would not. What we do instead is we would create an environment where they have to be responsible for their own life.

So instead of closing them in a cell with a heap of other people who are in exactly the same angry condition that they are, what we would do is we do what we do with a child; we would isolate the child from that environment, we would then help them see their own personal responsibilities. In this case, the child who is now an adult who is a murderer can be isolated put in a situation where he has to build his own house and he has to make his own garden to survive. You might give him seeds, three months of food and that's it. Keep him in isolation. The only visitors he gets are people who love him. So he doesn't get a visit from his mother (laughter), well he wouldn't be there if she loved him. That's the reality. She might believe she loves him but we'd have to talk to the mother about the proper exercise of love before she can visit her son.

So he gets no visitors except for those who love him and what we'd have is a whole heap of people who we would train to love these people to help them understand how to build their own house, how to take care of their own life, how to prepare their own garden, how to cook and prepare their own food and so forth. They're the only people that this person sees until such a time as he's gone through the grief. Now we can start introducing other people to his life people who don't like him whom he would normally be very angry with and we can see whether he's still angry with them or not. And we can help him through the process of dealing with these emotions. [02:17:53.21]

Once he gets into the grief and also into the repentance about what he's done, we can introduce him to the victim's family and so forth but he's still responsible for his own life.

You know what we do instead of that in the penal system? We spend sixty thousand dollars on the average per person who's a murderer every single year to house them. Now you think about after four years he could have built his own home. Now most of them are put away for fifteen years plus, sixty thousand dollars by fifteen years adds up to what? Nine hundred thousand dollars. We're better off giving him a block of land that he has to build his own house on and we put a fence around it and we have guards or whatever to prevent him from getting out and he's restricted in there. Then after his fifteen-year term is finished we just tear down the walls and he's got his own house that he owns. We're better of doing that than doing what we're currently doing because what we're currently doing doesn't create anything.

So what we'd be better off doing is say, "Right you've got your own area, you're going to be under restriction in a certain way for a certain period of time and this is the process we're going to go through. You will not get out of this process unless you engage it. So this will be like forever until you die or it could be the next ten years, or it could be the next five years, it just depends on whether you engage it. And you're going to have to engage it sincerely because sooner or later we'll expose the emotions that are not sincere." Just like we would with the child, exactly the same. [02:19:43.21]

Why don't we do that? The main reason why we don't do that now is because we want to punish them. We want to take out our rage and anger on them. Don't you think they've already had a life of that? That's why they consider murder in the first place probably. So they've already had a life of that so we don't need to do that, we need to love them but we need to restrict them because we don't want them murdering anybody else.

But with the amount of resources we currently spend doing it; we could do far better than we're currently doing. And in the end he'd end up with a house that he himself has built in a place that he himself can live if he desires to, to be self-sufficient completely. He doesn't have to go anywhere else and we can just take down the walls and then make another "temporary" prison somewhere else for a new inmate. That's what we could do if we really loved them. That's what we would do.

And it's really, if you think about it, exactly the same as what we're doing with a child but just in an expanded manner.

Participant: Would he naturally grow in love, in natural love, even if he weren't bringing God into the situation?

Well there's a high likelihood he would, wouldn't he? If you think about it, if you're now surrounded by a group of people who love you, they are only invested in you going through some emotions so that you no longer murder, they are very interested in you paying the price of what you've done in the sense from a consequence perspective. In other words they want you to see what inside of you has caused you to take the action you took, they want you to see the effects of the action, they want you to go through the process of like feeling some degree of sorrow about the action that's not fake but actually real. They want you to become responsible for your own life, they want to give you the gift of some property, give you the gift of some food, give you the gift of some seed, to get a start. All the things you'd never have in your entire life. Now after all of that it would be a pretty hardened criminal to not respond to that over a period of time.

Participant: Yeah and really he'd be more open if he were not preached at.

Exactly. You wouldn't preach at him, you don't have to preach at him that, "You need to be this religious faith or you need to have this viewpoint of God," you don't need any of that. You just engage him in the same manner that you'd engage anybody else in a real state. You don't need to preach at him, don't need to convert him, you're just trying to change the underlying reasons why he took the actions he took. Can you see it would be a very, very hardened person who would spend twenty years going through that process without changing? [02:22:35.16]

Participant: I just had the feeling come into me that this is what happens to us when we pass over.

Exactly. You see what we're trying to do is mirror what God does with us. So what God does is He maintains a restriction. As soon as we pass, unless we're earthbound, because we're still hard in our hearts when we're earthbound. As soon as we decide to not be earthbound anymore we go to a location, that's our restriction. We're in that location, we can't get out of that location we can't raise our condition out of that location without having to feel something, without having to change. And God maintains that restriction and maintains that restriction and maintains that restriction just like a loving father would to a son. He maintains that restriction until the grief is released and when the grief is released the condition elevates. Now they can go to a new location. Exactly the same as what we can do.

This is the beauty you see. Remember yesterday we said during the presentation, and I think we read it out right at the beginning where we said what governs how we may limit the free will of others? The answer that we had in the seminar outline was that the principles that govern our ability to limit the free will of others are exactly the same principles that govern the laws that God uses to limit our own free will. So what I'm suggesting really is taking the same actions as God takes with your child and with every other single person collectively we can do this. We could this collectively; we could take the same action with every other person. [02:25:02.08]

Now of course when you begin this process on Earth, there's not a structure so unfortunately the first few people who start triggering all of this process on Earth are going to be laughed at, ridiculed and all the other things that normally go on with change. And then eventually a group of people will come along to a certain structure and once they recognise the structure as the best structure that can be used, then they will often embrace it very, very rapidly after that. It just requires some of us to have a lot more courage in the use of our free will right now for these structures to be embraced.

6.5. An example of AJ restricting other parent's children (continued)

Participant: Yeah I was just going to make a comment, you know how you said about Luca before with the strawberries, how he...

I didn't mention the name but go on.

Participant: Oh sorry, the little boy with the strawberries. He was actually, immediately after, he was more loving. He shared the strawberries after he cleared the emotion. I just got why, because he cleared some...

The emotional resistance to why he was being unloving in the first place. Yeah what happened with the situation, I actually recommend that the little boy stay strapped in his car chair and he just screamed. Ange was present, and he just screamed and carried on and threw things and went on for quite some time. Of course after a while everybody in the car, because there were six people in the car, they were sort of covering their ears going, "What the hell's AJ doing to us?" That's the feeling they had but while it went on eventually you could feel the change in him, couldn't you Ange? It just felt this change into softness and that's what happens to everybody. They have a change from the anger and the rage into the softness, which is the grief itself, and as they go through that process then you know this is where the real emotion is that's coming out now. [02:27:09.16]

Participant: Yeah and at the point strawberries were his most favourite thing and then he shared them around the car, it was just amazing.

Exactly, instead of actually holding onto them himself. So we stopped the car, I got out and bought him some strawberries, gave them to him and he then shared his strawberries even, whereas before he was throwing everything at everybody (laughs), totally different person.

So what we see through that process is the exact same process we need to go through. We are just these little children with all of these locked up emotions in a big body. This is why many of you are still in the tantrum phase, do you understand? Because you're yet to get into this place and you're having a tantrum about what's going on. We need to go through the tantrum as an emotion but we need to get through it and out the other side.

6.6. An example of a woman with dementia

Participant: For my very demented mother and other people, who are very demented and have terribly aggressive outbursts, is the answer for them the electrical thing that gets rid of the spirits?

Yes. Get rid of the spirits because the dementia causes a big attachment to spirits. There's often quite a lot of spirits around them. Get rid of the spirits and when I say get rid of them, obviously my feeling is love. If they go, "Get rid of them", in an angry way it's not the way. What we want to do is disconnect the person from the spirit and then we want to speak with the spirit as well as the person. And if the person can't be spoken to you'll find them a lot more docile anyway, a lot less controlled. [02:28:47.10]

The problem with a person with dementia is they have an unwillingness to remember their life, which is a major problem. If we really want to cure that problem, we've got to get a lot of the population wanting to remember all of their life before they hit their thirties instead of avoiding all their life and then hitting fifty or sixty and then having dementia and not wanting to remember anything about their life.

6.7. An example of a movie about teaching murderers about free will

Participant: Just talking about the prisoner situation that you were talking about, I just connected to remembering this film that I really loved that was called "Doing Time Doing Vipassana" and it was about the worst prison in India. It's about the Vipassana meditation and feeling through your body and I guess these prisoners got to their emotions through sitting there. It was worse for them to sit there restrained in their pose than to be in a prison situation where they had free will to do anything. It was so moving because they ended up like hugging the guards and crying and then connecting to the feminine members of the people they murdered and wanting to do service for them.

Wow. That is a true reflection of repentance.

Participant: Repentance, just through feeling their own pain through their own body and feeling like I need to feel connected to this pain. It was obviously driving them to their own emotion of why they did this act of murder or rape or whatever. It was really beautiful. It's free on line actually you can just get it off YouTube.

It sounds like a good movie to observe.

Participant: Sorry I just wanted to add to that Vipassana is actually used in yoga to completely tune out of one's body. It's not used at the moment in a way of connecting to one's emotions in the Western world.

Yes it sounds like with these guys though they did actually tune into their emotions. Yoga can be used very positively or negatively of course. So we need to take care with how we use anything. If we are using it to tune out of ourselves then of course we are not going to go through this anger, rage, grief process that we need to go through. [02:31:27.20]

Mary: Is that the practice where they have the weeklong silent retreats? Yeah, because I've heard a lot of people go into their emotions. You're not supposed to be, you're supposed to be like zenning but that's probably a bad use of the word zenning, but a lot of people actually connect because there's silence and you're breathing.

And so restricted that all of a sudden things start coming out of them, yeah. So I understand what you're saying - a lot of times a motive is different in day-to-day practice.

Participant: Yeah, just based on that I've known people that have actually become spirit influenced in Vipassanas and had to be you know committed because the teachers don't know how to deal with that because it's all about not feeling.

So you've got to understand the truth before you use the technique. So I'm not recommending the technique, it sounds like a good movie to watch though in terms of how repentance can occur and change can occur.

6.8. Teaching a teenager about free will using restriction

Participant: So when the child becomes a fifteen year old...

Yeah, tricky now.

Participant: ... just for example, just hypothetically. (Laughter)

Yeah, just hypothetically. This is a good hypothetical.

Participant: So the restrictions, you still maintain such as grounding, as long as it's done not with anger or fear and while the parents go through their emotions?

Yes but by the way can I just point out if you've left it until their fifteen years old then yes you've got a bit of handful on your hands already. So we need to acknowledge that but most parents unfortunately do leave it a long time and it's only in the teenage years that they start seeing the rebellion of their child properly. Then as a result of that they feel uncertain of what to do because often a child is bigger than they are so it's pretty hard to hold them and restrict them. You need five people to hold them down. [02:33:31.13]

Now of course if a person was a severe offender you would consider having five persons to hold them down just to restrict them until eventually you could educate them about what process they're going to go through. So you wouldn't even consider doing that, but it has to come from love anyway. So there are times when we might even consider that with our children. However, there are other more powerful tools generally available to us. You think about the child, what are the main potential things by the time they are fifteen that they want to do?

Participant: Get taken to places.

So they want to be taken to places because they can't go themselves but they want to go.

Participant: Fulfilling their addictions, food addictions.

So food.

Participant: Music.

Music, technology. So let's call it all technology. So we've said three so far - one is free unrestricted access to where they want to go and they want you to take them. The second thing is with food - they want you to prepare their food for them generally, they want you to buy what they like...

Participant: Clean up afterwards.

Clean up after them and everything. What else? Technology.

Participant: Phone cards.

Phone cards, phones, mobile phones, computers, telly all those things, what else? Friends coming over. All of those kinds of things. Anything else? They want you to pay for it all, cash. Cash very important.

Now you can devise methods to both positively and negatively give feedback on every one of those particular issues. So myself and Ange and Rob had a discussion about these matters with their children and we talked about having a need to have both positive and negative reinforcement. So positive reinforcement occurs when the person exercises a desire to take responsibility and all of these kinds of things and to do the loving thing... [02:35:38.17]

Mary: To love, because everything you're about to say...

Is about love.

Mary: I want to pretext... you're trying to teach your child about free will and love.

And to try to teach a child how to love themselves and how to love other people and how to love their environment. So those three things are very important. You include love of self, love of others and love of the environment. So whenever they don't tidy up their room, that's a love of self issue then you'd have to address it somehow. Now you can also address the love of self issue positively by offering to pay them for work they do for the rest of the family that they don't have to do.

So for instance you clean the family's bathroom and you get ten bucks but it has to be done properly, it has to be done thoroughly. It can't be done you know a five minute job and spend the ten bucks. And when they engage their desires, you give them positive feedback. This is a very brief summary of the process because I've spent a couple of hours going through with Angela and Rob what to do on these particular things and it's a whole different discussion in itself.

But if you allow yourself to look at the areas that are important to them, they are the areas you can begin to go through this process of restriction. Now many times if the restriction results in their anger, then you impose more restriction. Eventually they'll get into the grief about what's going on, and again because they're fifteen you can reason with them now. So you can intellectually reason with them spend some time reasoning about these particular issues if they want to, if not you can still impose the restrictions without any reasoning whatsoever.

And as a parent you have a lot of power to impose loving restrictions in order to help the child understand love. And what I find most parents doing is totally abdicating their role as a parent, imposing hardly any restrictions whatsoever, and then they wonder why their house is a mess. Mum's always cleaning up after everybody and she's always washing this and doing that and making dinner and they come home all hours of the night because we've given them free will. They're allowed to do that and all of these kinds of ideas.

And then we go shopping and they want you to buy that and want you to buy this and I've had one mother say, "I have to buy it for her; it's her free will." And I say, "What about your free will? Like you're the one spending the money, where's your free will gone in this process?" And also what are you teaching a child if it gets everything it wants without restriction, even the things that are damaging to its own self physically, spiritually and morally and emotionally, then of course it's going to grow up to be an egomaniac. It's going to grow up to be a child who actually has this viewpoint that everyone in the world should be there for its own benefit and that is a very, very damaging thing you can do to the child.

Participant: And the restriction maintains until you get the grief or remorse, or true remorse.

Exactly, there is no such thing as you are grounded for two weeks. No such thing.

Participant: Until there is remorse or repentance.

Until there's some resolution of this problem emotionally. Now initially the child will become very annoyed through this restriction.

6.9. An example of restricting to children who damaged AJ's furniture

So I remember when David and Jodie stayed with us with little Lucas and Jasper. When they first came Lucas and Jasper were very angry with Mary and I. Often they'd be in a rage with Mary and a rage with me and so they'd get crayons and draw all over our furniture, or all sorts of things would happen. And after a while we talked to Jodie about how to address these issues emotionally.

So what she finished up doing was when Lucas drew all over our lounge suite Jodie then said he's not allowed in the house until he's repentant. So he wasn't allowed in the house for meals, he wasn't allowed to go to the toilet in the house; he wasn't allowed to do anything in the house until he was sorry for what he'd done.

Mary: Just to let them know that he had a bedroom.

Oh he had a bedroom to sleep in of his own.

Mary: He had an eco tent to live in.

But he wasn't allowed in this house that he'd ruined. So he went on for about two weeks in just total rebellion to that. Every night when he was not allowed in the house he screamed outside, he'd cry outside, he'd rage, he'd be sitting outside on the ground eating his food because he wasn't allowed in the house to sit at the table to eat. He'd be crying but be in a rage about it, and this went on for a long time. [02:40:38.10]

And then one time I was just doing the dishes outside, he walked up outside because he was still outside, he wasn't allowed in, and he come up to me and he said, "AJ," and I said, "Yes, mate." He goes, "I'm really sorry for what I did with your furniture." I said, "Oh that's wonderful Lucas, what made you feel that?" So I asked him a few questions and he said, "I could see that I damaged it..." and in his childlike way he explained these things. He didn't even expect to come inside and I said, "How would you like to ask your mummy if you could be allowed back inside now?" "Oh." He didn't even think of it and he, "Oh, okay no worries," and he went around and asked mum and she said yeah he was allowed to come back inside.

It took two weeks. Now the next time he did a similar thing it took about two days or three days because they become less resistive to the process if they know the parents are going to be consistent with the process, and that's the beauty of doing it that way.

6.10. The benefits of restricting children's free will

Now it's exactly the same with any other person we deal with. We are all spoilt rotten children who all think we are able to get our own way whenever we want and we don't understand the process of free will. And when we're restricted in some way, we come to acknowledge, "Wow maybe I've got a problem," at some point.

However I don't encourage you to encourage repentance; rather wait for repentance. Encouraging repentance is going, "You go and say sorry now. You say sorry." How many of you parents have done that in your lives? "You say sorry, you shouldn't have done that. You know you shouldn't have done that - you go and say sorry." And you're child's sitting there, "I don't want to say sorry. I still feel I was totally justified doing exactly what I was doing." And we say, "You go and do it now otherwise you won't get this and you won't get that," and after a while they go, "Wow that was one too many things taken away so I'll go up and say sorry." But they mean none of it because it's not coming from their heart. They've got to mean it.

How do they mean it? By you not engendering or pulling it out of them but rather by them having to go through a process where they have their own realisation, "Wow I have done something that has damaged another person that wasn't very nice to them," and feel bad about it and have a cry about it and eventually they want to repair the damage. They want to clean up the wall that they drew all over or whatever it is that they've done, if they go through the process completely.

The other beautiful thing about restriction, particularly of a child, is when you restrict the child the spirits with the child are incapable of now expressing their own free will and many spirits who are over-cloaking your children will leave them as soon as that happens consistently. So we've encouraged a lot of parents with very young children to just go through this process. You have to be pretty consistent, but for some of them it's been like night and day within three days, it's like they have different children. And in fact many parents don't even know the personality of their own children because actually the person who's with them most of the time is not their own children but some spirit who passed over five, ten, fifteen years ago who's over-cloaking that child. And that's a sad fact of our day-to-day life in many cases.

When we go through this process of restricting a child and teaching about free will and it goes through its grief process, it disconnects itself from the spirit influence through its own soul interaction and as a result of that the spirits can no longer interfere with them. And it also means you have nice calm children on your hands most of the time as a result because there are many spirits in the spirit world, or I should say who are earthbound, who spend their entire life looking for children that they can over-cloak and express their unhealed emotions through.

This is why many of you women get your children beating you. Some of them will come and punch you in the breast even. How many of you have had that happen to you as a parent where a child has come up and punched you, like as a woman and punched you right in the breast, which is about you being a woman? Don't you think that's a personal thing? Of course it is, by some spirit who's over-cloaking the child and expressing their rage and anger towards the woman. So when we disconnect them from all of these kinds of things, none of those kinds of events will occur.

7. Closing words

Now what's the time because I think we've gone a while. We need to continue this discussion at another time. Do you get the basic principles of how it works in practice? We can expand on these principles in areas of politics, religion and all the other major systems of the world, and if you think about it you can refine every major system in the world by applying these basic principles about free will. [02:45:47.27]

So if you look at religions, many times there are huge restrictions based on personal opinions or personal opinions of the founder of the religion, and once we look at these laws we see that's not needed anymore. If you look at the areas of cults where there's a lot of fear, that's not needed anymore. If you look at the area of politics, penal systems, legal systems and all these other areas, you'll find that if you apply these basic principles, it simplifies all the laws down to this real tight definition of what's loving and what isn't loving, and we can go through the process.

So hopefully this weekend we've helped you go through this idea that free will is not as free as you probably have believed it to be in the sense that it's only completely free when you're completely in harmony with love. Until that time we have a lot of things to learn about our free will and how we exercise our will. So hopefully it's given you a bit of an idea of what to experiment with and discover. And we'd like to thank you for being a part of the discussion today as well.

Mary: I was just going to ask everyone can you see why AJ's placed so much emphasis on the soul, humility, feeling your own emotions and the development of your soul before presenting this material, because if you apply it without that, it becomes very damaging.

Yeah, if you apply it with just your head, it's not going to work very well.

Thank you. (Applause)

Appendix: The Human Soul – The Gift Of Free Will Seminar Outline

### Introduction

God's Gifts That Are Automatically Given To Everyone

God has given us many gifts, which include:

The Gift of Life

The Gift of Free Will

The Gift of Self-Awareness

The Gift of Sexuality

Etc.

None of these gifts are rights

God's Gifts That We Must Use Our Will To Accept

The Gift of Divine Love (activated by exercising a conscious soul desire to receive Divine Love)

The Gift of Forgiveness (activated by a conscious soul desire to repent and change)

Etc.

Free Will Is A Gift Given To Every Human Soul

There is no law of Free Will

There is no right to use my own Free Will

Free Will is a gift not given to any other creation of God

God devised a universe that teaches us how to use our Free Will harmonious with Love

### Please Note With This Entire Discussion

Understanding Free Will cannot be achieved with the mind alone

Free Will is used by the Human Soul, therefore cannot be governed by the mind alone

Free Will is motivated by the emotions within the Soul

For Free Will to become harmonious with Divine Love, the Soul must change (not the mind)

The mind is not capable of making soul-based decisions

There is always a possibility of using Free Will out of harmony with Divine Love when the soul is not completely at-one with God.

God's definition of Free Will must exist within the soul before it can act appropriately

The soul can only instantly act in Love when the soul understands the definition

If the soul understands, then instant action can be taken without the mind questioning the act

If the mind needs to question the situation, then this indicates the soul is yet to understand

### Loving Guidelines For The Use Of Free Will

I can use my Gift of Free Will in any direction on any matter in harmony with Divine Love and Divine Truth without having any negative consequences upon my soul, the soul of others or the general environment.

Please Note:

1. Any action taken in this manner will always bear positive growth results for my soul. However, if I have within myself any soul-based error that is out of harmony with Divine Love or Divine Truth, since my action taken in harmony with Divine Truth or Divine Love will confront this error, I may also experience some pain. This pain will cease once I have released the error.

2. Any action taken in this manner will also always bear positive growth results for the soul of others involved in the action. However, if those people have within themselves any soul-based error that is out of harmony with Divine Truth or Divine Love, since my action taken in harmony with Divine Truth or Divine Love will confront this error, others may also experience some pain. This pain will cease once they release the error.

3. Any action taken in this manner will also always be beneficial to the environment (since the environment is automatically attracted to God's Love and Truth).

4. Any action taken without being motivated by a feeling of Love, whether the action is harmonious with Divine Truth or not, it will always have a painful consequence on both the person acting and those whom the action effects.

5. Any action taken out of harmony with Divine Truth, but with a feeling of Love in harmony with Divine Love, bears less consequence than an action taken in harmony with Divine Truth but out of harmony with Divine Love.

I can use my Gift of Free Will in any direction on any matter in disharmony with Divine Love and Divine Truth but there will be a negative consequence upon my own soul, the souls of others, and the general environment.

Please Note:

1. Any action taken in this manner will always be harmful to my soul and cause my soul to degenerate. It will always bear a painful consequence upon my soul, whether I am conscious of the immediate pain at the time or not.

2. Any action taken in this manner will always be harmful to the soul of others affected or involved in the action and cause their souls to degenerate. It will always bear a painful consequence upon their soul, whether they are conscious of the immediate pain at the time or not and whether they desired me to take that action (because of their addictions) or not. This will happen unless their soul is at-one with God.

3. Any action taken in this manner will also always be harmful to the environment (since the environment is automatically attracted to God's Love and Truth, and therefore damaged by any action taken out of harmony with God's Love or Truth).

Using one's Free Will in harmony with Divine Love and Divine Truth cannot involve any act of violence towards oneself, any other person, nor the environment

### Definition Of An Act Of Violence

An "act of violence" is defined by God as any thought, word, or action based upon or seeded by an emotion coming from the soul which is external in it's expression and directed towards another entity that is living, that is driven by emotions that are not in harmony with Divine Love, that result in the living entity being attacked.

Please Note:

1. Violence includes thoughts, words and actions based on emotions that cause attack. For example thoughts, words or actions based on emotions of terror, fear, rage, anger, resentment, ridicule, condescension etc, are all included in the definition of violence.

2. Violence includes acts of physical violence, acts of spiritual or psychic violence (which include rage, anger, resentment, fear projected towards another), and intentions of violence that are not acted upon (a desire for the person to be harmed without acting upon the desire).

3. There are varying consequences to the soul perpetrating violence towards different levels of living beings. For example there is a different consequence for attacking a tree compared to a human being.

4. There are varying consequences to the soul perpetrating violence depending upon whether the action is taken, felt, or agreed with. For example there is a different consequence for physically attacking another person compared to hoping that someone else physically attacks the person, or asking a spirit to physically attack the person, or thinking that the attack upon the person was justified.

5. If I am in fear of violence from another person or group of persons, I am, under this definition, actually perpetrating violence towards those persons, and there is a consequence for such a use of my Free Will. There are varying degrees of how this fear affects the soul and is defined as violent. If my fear is imagined, then the damage upon the soul is greater than if the fear is real. If another person created the fear within myself (such as a parent), then they also bear some consequence for my violence.

6. If I am afraid, and I avoid action (I avoid acting in harmony with Divine Love and Truth) as a result of my fear, I am automatically perpetrating an act of violence.

7. Any act of violence taken towards oneself bears the same soul consequences as the identical kind of act of violence towards another.

8. Threatening physical violence is also considered as violence.

If I perform an act of violence there will be a painful consequence upon my soul, and upon any living entity that receives the action (with the exception of a person who is at-one with God)

### Limiting the Free Will Of Others

It may be in harmony with God's Love and Truth to take actions that limit the expression of Free Will in other individuals or groups of people

God does this by establishing the spheres of probation (spheres 1 to 7 of the spirit world)

God desires that we learn to express our Free Will in the same manner He does

God's definition of Love and Truth are used as the basis for these limiting actions

Under some circumstances, action to limit Free Will of another may be necessary for me to take if I wish to remain in harmony with Divine Love and Divine Truth myself

What Governs How We May Limit The Free Will Of Others

The principles that govern our ability to limit the Free Will of others are exactly the same principles that govern the Laws that God uses to limit our own Free Will

Organisations, parents, or any other person can remain in complete harmony with God's Laws while restricting the Free Will of others, as long as such restrictions of Free Will are taken in harmony with the principles of Divine Love and Divine Truth, and include an emotion of Love coming from the Organisation or individual who is attempting the restriction, and does not include any act of violence.

Please Note:

1. An action of restricting the Free Will of another may actually be demanded of us if we wish to remain in harmony with Divine Love or Divine Truth.

2. Organisations have a Loving purpose when they are established for the benefit of groups of people or individuals as long as they are in harmony with Divine Love and Truth.

3. Organisations that have an unloving purpose are automatically out of harmony with God's Love and Truth.

4. Being a parent is a gift from God to allow parents to become involved in teaching God's children in their care about God's Love and Truth.

I may limit the Will of another without having any negative consequence upon my own soul or the soul of the other, as long as limiting their Will is done with:

The emotion of Love being present within myself towards the other, and; I have the motivation of giving the gift of my Love to the other, and; I have the motivation of helping and assisting the other's soul to grow; and as long as the action of limiting their Will is in harmony with God's Truth and God's Love.

Please Note:

1. Any action taken in this manner will always bear positive growth results for my own soul. However, if I have within myself any soul-based error that is out of harmony with Divine Love or Divine Truth, since my action taken in harmony with Divine Truth or Divine Love will confront this error, I may also experience some pain. This pain will cease once I have released the error.

2. Any action taken in this manner will also always bear positive growth results for the soul of others involved in the action. However, if those people have within themselves any soul-based error that is out of harmony with Divine Truth or Divine Love, since my action taken in harmony with Divine Truth or Divine Love will confront this error, others may also experience some pain. This pain will cease once they release the error.

3. Any action taken in this manner will also always be beneficial to the environment (since the environment is automatically attracted to God's Love and Truth).

If I limit the Free Will of others and take such actions because I believe such actions to be in harmony with God's Truth and God's Love, but the actions are NOT actually in harmony with God's Truth and Love, then there will be a painful consequence upon my soul and upon the soul of those I am attempting to limit.

Please Note:

1. Any action taken in this manner will always be harmful to my soul and cause my soul to degenerate. It will always bear a painful consequence upon my soul, whether I am conscious of the immediate pain at the time or not. This action is also the result of arrogance, which has its own soul-based consequences.

2. Any action taken in this manner will always be harmful to the soul of others affected or involved in the action and cause their souls to degenerate. It will always bear a painful consequence upon their soul, whether they are conscious of the immediate pain at the time or not and whether they desired me to take that action (because of their addictions) or not. It will also feel potentially painful to the spiritual and physical bodies. This will happen unless their soul is at-one with God.

3. Any action taken in this manner will also always be harmful to the environment (since the environment is automatically attracted to God's Love and Truth, and therefore damaged by any action taken out of harmony with God's Love or Truth). For example animals may copy my own behaviour by attacking other animals.

If I limit the Free Will of others and take such actions without having a feeling of Love that is in Harmony with Divine Love for the individuals that I am attempting to limit then there will be a painful consequence upon my soul and upon the soul of those I am attempting to limit.

Please Note:

1. The feeling or emotion of Love must be in harmony with the way God would express Love, and not based upon my own definition of Love.

2. Any action taken in this manner will always be harmful to my soul and cause my soul to degenerate. It will always bear a painful consequence upon my soul, whether I am conscious of the immediate pain at the time or not.

3. Any action taken in this manner will always be harmful to the soul of others affected or involved in the action and cause their souls to degenerate. It will always bear a painful consequence upon their soul, whether they are conscious of the immediate pain at the time or not and whether they desired me to take that action (because of their addictions) or not. This will happen unless their soul is at-one with God.

4. Any action taken in this manner will also always be harmful to the environment (since the environment is automatically attracted to God's Love and Truth, and therefore damaged by any action taken out of harmony with God's Love or Truth).

If I am involved in an Organisation, institution or group that limits the use of the Free Will of others, I can remain in harmony with Divine Love and Divine Truth as long as the Organisation itself remains in harmony with Divine Love and Divine Truth.

Please Note:

1. If the organisation, institution or group is out of harmony with Divine Love or Divine Truth while taking actions that limit others Free Will, or while using it's own will, then as a member of the group, I must take action to remedy the situation if I wish to remain innocent of the damages caused by the group.

2. If the organisation, institution or group is in harmony with Divine Love or Divine Truth while taking actions that limit others Free Will, or while using it's own will, but I am not in harmony with Divine Love or Truth myself while taking similar actions, then I will still bear the responsibility of using my own will in an unloving manner.

Limiting another's Free Will in harmony with Divine Love and Divine Truth cannot involve an act of violence towards oneself, the person(s) being limited, nor the environment

### References, Music and Movies

Movies:

"Ghandi" (1982) Ben Kingsley.

"Goodbye Bafana" (2007) Joseph Fiennes, Dennis Haysbert.

"Amazing Grace" (2006) Ioan Gruffudd, Ramola Garai, Albert Finney.

Reference:

Divine Love "The True Gospel" Padgett Messages. All Volumes.

