[No Dialogue]
>> Dr. Wahby: Speaker and we are
fortunate to have her at Eastern
Illinois University, I have
listened to her presentations
before, and have been
impressed with her type
and quality of presentations.
She is the president of
something, and she 
>> Dr. Meadows: Illinois Council
on Family Relations.
>> Dr. Wahby: I tried to correct
this name, but you have got an
award for something, 
>> Dr. Meadows: Mentor,
faculty mentor award.
>> Dr. Wahby: Excellent.
And if you can't say Oyindamola
say "owinda' it means honey, and
wealth, so if you forget
Oyindomola, say and honey and
wealth, so what you can ask for.
And you pronounce your
last name for them.
>> Oyindamola: Odowu.
>> Dr. Wahby: E-doo.
Can you say that?
E-doo? Very good.
So we have two distinguished
speakers, she is a student in
the Masters program, and you
want to read her [unclear
dialogue] look at her reports,
her mind, how she listens to a
lecture, and goes and searches
and she makes my days, [unclear
dialogue] after class I went and
researched this, and found this,
and so forth. Ideal student.
And look for her name in the
future, maybe she minister of
something, so with out much
adieu, please join me in
welcoming Dr. Mikki Meadows.
>> Dr. Meadows: Hi everyone.
Thanks for coming.
My area is early childhood, so
my presentation starts, talks
about family life, marriage,
gender roles, things like that,
but since we are going to talk
about that later, I am going to
kind of zoom through that, and
focus a lot on children, and
children's behavior and play.
So that's the focus for tonight.
So we'll start with
marriage and family.
And I am going to go ahead, like
I said, and just zoom right
through this, males tended to
marry older in ancient Greece,
so they were around 25-30,
generally because they were
finished with their service to
the country at that time.
Females were much younger, and
so they were younger because
they wanted to insure
that they, you know,
their virginity
was still intact.
The gender roles are what we
might imagine them to be, or
have heard them to be.
The partners where chosen
for the females because
of their young age.
The female's family did pay a
dowry to the husband, and you
know, which she was passed
on to him, they might not
even meet each other.
They did move into the same
home, and that constituted the
wedding, the marriage, it was
almost like, I don't know what I
would kind of consider a
compound, almost.
Often the women didn't even
leave the home, except for
church, things like that.
So, marriage was very different
and the reason I am going
through this is because
children play what they see.
So in order to understand
children's play, we have to have
a little tiny window into
what adults were doing
of course at that time.
And like I said, gender
roles, things like that.
Divorce did occur, so
again, I'll put, whoops,
I got too excited there.
Divorce did occur, but the
children would often stay with
the father, if divorce occurred,
so that's kind of interesting,
and something of course that
I found very different.
It wasn't that the father was
interacting with the children,
it was the father's ownership of
the children and the family, so
it wasn't like today and we had
a divorce, if the father was
with the children he would be
the caregiver, interact with the
children, that's what we would
expect, and that's not why that
happened in ancient times.
Again, it was because of
the ownership issue.
The role of the women was
to care for the family.
And that was the basic role;
so childbearing of course,
was a priority.
And childrearing was a priority.
Again, wealthy women
really didn't leave the home.
They just focused on the home,
the children, caring somewhat
for the husband, caring for the
slaved individuals that lived in
the home, but that was
pretty much the focus.
She did have authority over the
people in the home, authority
over the children, and authority
over the slaved individuals, but
it was limited to you know
that small area of you
know her existence.
You can stop me if I
am going too fast.
Because like I said, I
am going to zoom through.
So again, childbearing was
extremely important for women,
just like it often was you know,
in ancient parts, in ancient
times, in parts of the world.
Generally four to five children,
and so it's less than you might
think, six to eight pregnancies,
about half of the children would
live at any time.
Childbearing occurred in the
home, it was assisted by other
women, so you know,
she wasn't alone.
The father controlled
most of the decisions
related to childbearing.
So for instance, once a child
was born, the father would see
the child, and depending upon
the sex of the child, whether
the child was healthy or not, of
course if there was any question
of illegitimacy, if the child
had any issues, you know
disabilities, anything like
that, then what could happened
was called exposing the child.
And what that meant was they
basically put the child outside
in a pot or a basket or
something, and hopefully
somebody would come and claim
it, but if not, of course the
child would just perish.
But basically what they were
saying is we don't want any
responsibilities for that
child, and that was all
the father's decision.
And that was called
exposing the child.
Once the, after five to seven
days after childbirth, there
would be a purification
ceremony, because again, in many
male dominated societies, things
like childbearing, menstruation,
things like that, are seen as
impure, you know, evil, almost a
defilement of the home, and so
the home would have to be
purified, and everybody that
worked with the mother during
childbearing, would have to
be purified as well.
At that point then, once
purification occurred, you could
no longer expose a child.
So by then, the child was
part of your family.
Still wasn't named though until
about age, about day ten,
or ten days old.
And that's they believed because
of the fact that many children
didn't live past the first week
or so, and they wanted to make
sure that the child was going to
be a part of the family, before
they bestowed a
name on the child.
So I thought that was
kind of interesting.
Females were not educated, go
ahead and put those up again,
they did stay
with their mothers.
The mother educated them, in
again, of course, how to care
for the home, how to care
for other children,
things like that.
Enslaved children were not
educated either, as you might
imagine, and poor children
were not educated.
It was for the wealthy.
Boys were educated from about 17
to 13 and it was we hear a lot
about the ancient Greek
education; so again, I am going
to skip right through that, and
generally about one teacher to
ten to twenty boys.
It's very interesting, when you
read about ancient Greece, they
have so many similarities, in
their, in the way they look at
childhood, and they way
they look at children.
Even in their educational
systems, it was really similar
to some of the developmental
approaches that we use, saying
that you teach children
according to their developmental
level, which makes
sense, but we don't
always do that intuitively.
So things like that, they were
actually doing in ancient Greece
at the time, so that, it's small
classroom one on one education,
things like peer education, so
older children teaching younger
children, all of those kinds of
things that are seen as very
dynamic and creative right now,
were actually occurring in the
schools with the boys.
Ok, gender roles, this
is the last one I am
going to zip through.
Gender roles, again, females
were very much in a subordinate
position, to the point that
they actually didn't even
have their own names.
They had a form of their
father's name, and when they
were married, they were given a
form of their husband's name, so
they were very much seen as
under the protection, the care,
and of course, the authority
of their father's
and their spouses.
But it's very interesting
because males were in such a
position, that actually they
thought it took longer to have a
boy child, so that they thought
that gestation as the time from
conception to childbirth, the
nine months, basically, and many
people believed that it actually
took longer to grow a boy then
it did to grow a girl.
Because they were so
much more complex.
Isn't that interesting?
But they thought it was harder
to bear a female child because
males were just easier, and
easier to manage, and again
superior, so these ideas even
filtered into childbearing and
mothering and gender roles
and things like that. Ok.
Here's what I was waiting on.
Ok. So toys and
games in society.
A culturation is the way that
adults, well generally adults,
it can happen at any point, but
for my purpose, it's the idea of
transmitting the rules of the
culture from one generation
to another generation.
And so, Myer Forez in the 1930's
and 40's wrote about the role of
games and play in culturating
children, and the fact that that
is how adults draw
children into society.
It's through game
playing with them.
And that's how children then
in turn learn about society.
So we think that children are
just kind of off playing, and
enjoying themselves, and
they are, and that's good, but
basically what they are doing is
they are interacting with their
culture, with their environment,
and they are learning about what
people are doing on a day to
day, you know, in their day to
day worlds, by playing out.
And so that is why you see
children they very, very often
are either playing with kitchen
toys, right, you see them play
with kitchen toys, or they are
building things, you know,
pretending to do the things
that they see the adults doing.
And so what adults do, then is
through adult interaction, with
children's play and games, we
then either perpetuate you know
the behaviors that we want to
see, or we kind of smush down
behaviors that you know don't
fit in with our culture, mush in
with our culture.
So, a culturation was a huge
part of play, in ancient Greece,
for children.
The play of children of ancient
Greece is actually extremely
similar to what we advocate in
the school of family and
consumer sciences.
And that's again a
developmental play.
And that' s a play that means
that children are playing
according to their developmental
level, and play is very pure,
and for enjoyment and for social
interaction, and so later I am
going to talk about some of the
trends in children's play in
overall society, but those of
that teach and study child
development, advocate play
as play, pure play.
And so what that means is
children in ancient Greece, and
today, didn't play for adults,
they played for themselves.
And that, it sounds like that
would be what children are
doing, but think about
what we do with children.
So for instance, how many of you
have ever had a child that just
learned their colors, their
ABC's you know something like
that, and then you drag them
everywhere, and say, "Now tell
grandma how you know how to do
your ABC"s, tell daddy your
ABC's, tell," and they are like
little performing puppies
basically for us, right?
We get them all dressed up, and
we make them do tricks, and then
we are like Yay!
and we go Yay!
you know, and then when they do
something, anything now, then
you know I work in the child
development lab, and these
little children will climb up on
something and then they will go,
like this, you know, waiting on
somebody to clap for them, in
play, you know, they are
supposed to be playing, and they
are supposed to be enjoying
themselves for enjoyment's sake,
now when you guys go out, and do
something fun, do you do it for
the approval of others around
you, and for praise, and awards?
And things like that, or do you
just go out and have a good
time, but see, we don't really,
we often don't allow children to
do that, like they did in
ancient Greece, and like we
advocate now.
And so that was very interesting
to me, because I was all over
the fact that they are doing
everything that I tell people
they should let kids do, so
that was very exciting.
So play was very, what we would
call pure in ancient Greece.
So although they were learning
the rules of the culture, they
were doing it at their own pace.
And on their own timeframe,
and it was child initiated, as
opposed to adult initiated.
Does that make sense?
All right, see, I told you I'd
slow down, I really slowed down,
didn't I?
They were preparing for adult
roles, so play prepares children
for adult roles overall, just
because of interactions,
learning to use materials, you
know, things like that.
In ancient Greece, it was
extremely purposeful, so for
instance, both Plato, and
Aristotle wrote about adults
that were maybe craftsmen,
tradesmen, and male oriented but
what they said is they must have
played that a lot as a child.
So there was this very clear
connection between people that
little boys that maybe built
with blocks and then built when
they were grownups.
You know, so they actually were
not, they didn't push the play
on children, but what they would
do is they believed that
children would naturally play
what their aptitude was.
So if they were going to be
builders, then it would show up
when they were young, and they
would practice, you know, with
blocks and sand and rocks and
things like that, and be better
builders when they were adults.
So that was kind of
interesting, I thought, too.
The caregiving then is
what the females did.
So the females were
given things like dolls.
Little girls were given dolls
and little toys that they would
pretend to be
running a household.
Or pretend to be working in a
household, or even they believed
in slave children would pretend
to be their little dolls were
working for people, were
little people that were
running the household.
So that was kind of
interesting, I thought.
So, the building, the
caregiving, I skipped
right over pretend play.
But what pretend play does, is
it allows children to try on
adult social roles.
So you've seen children do that,
"I'll be the mommy and you be
the daddy," You know, "I'll be
the police officer, and you be
the cat", I don't know, they do
all kinds of things, but they
are pretending to be
grownups basically.
They don't generally pretend to
be other children, right, they
pretend to do what
they see us doing.
And that was very common as
well in Ancient Greece.
So some of the toys and games
then that they have found, they
did find that toys and games
were extremely important, very
much a part of childhood.
So, they are different ways
that they figure that out.
And of course, one of the main
ways is through burial sites.
And what children, you
know, what we bury,
what they buried children with.
That's not grammatically
correct, but you know what I
mean. So, children
would have, the little girls
would be buried with things like
dolls, little boys would have
balls, carts, you know, wheely
toys, things like that.
So that was one way you know,
that we now look back and try to
figure out what
children were doing.
But we never really know whether
it was ceremonial or whether
they were really items the
children played with.
So, that's one cue we have but
we also have things like
decorative vases, lamps things
like that, and without fail when
children were pictured in art,
they were playing, in some way.
So either playing with adults,
or playing with one another.
So that's very interesting,
because we don't
really see that now.
So what we would call almost a
formal portrait of children was
them at play, as opposed to
posing and things like that.
So that gives us another clue
that play was very important in
the lives of children.
The most comprehensive
information though that was have
about ancient Greece and the
toys and the games that were
there, is through
the written word.
And so some of the
ancient writings literally have
chapters, pages and pages
describing the rules that
children used in games,
and things, so again,
that is very important.
You guys don't pick up a history
book, and read about three
chapters on the games
they were playing
during civil war times, right?
You now, you are looking at
other things, so for fact that
that's even included in some of
the historical writings and
appears more than once, you know
repeatedly, seems to be a theme,
again it gives us the idea that
it was a very important part of
life for the families.
It was very much seen as
an indicator of childhood.
So when boys reached puberty,
there were different rituals
depending upon the time period,
depending upon the family, but
they would actually
give their toys away.
It was like a ritual.
So they would give all of their
toys away and then move into
being men at puberty.
Girls would do the same thing.
They would give their toys to
different gods, whatever god,
again, depending upon their
wealth, their station in life,
the time period, they would give
their dolls, and dishes and
things like that to the gods,
the night before their wedding,
then to symbolize moving into
a womanly role in adulthood.
So, games and toys were like
a badge of childhood.
You know, we play games now, as
adults, or a lot of us do, you
know, so we tend to be more
playful as adults almost, than
my research showed the
ancient Greeks were.
They had organized sports,
obviously, things like that, but
as far as just play, you know,
things like that, we didn't see
that as much past childhood.
So again, when children are
represented, they are almost
always playing, so we have the
toys themselves, that survived,
that we can study, and then the
depictions of them just playing,
and playing and
playing everywhere.
And so, this is actually a quote
from Aristotle, and what I
really like, is, "young
things cannot keep still."
And so that's really important.
Because at different time
periods, we've been more
respectful of children and
their natural curiosity.
And their natural energy, and so
this tells us that it was very
child-centered, and that
children were expected to play
and be messy and do all the
things that we now, in
contemporary life
think children should do.
Do you guys have questions
or anything? Comments?
All right, so the types of
toys that they found.
The first toys
seemed to be rattles.
There were rattles of
various sizes, though.
This is a rattle that would have
been filled with something to
make it rattle.
And then this up here is a
rattle of course where they
slide back and forth; the little
pieces slide back and forth.
Rattles were made of a lot of
different materials.
They could be wood, terra cotta;
the more wealthier families
would have metal, like
bronze even rattles.
And one thing that was
interesting is there
were all different sizes.
So they would have tiny little
rattles, but they also had
rattles that were large,
about this big around.
And they thought that what they
did was adults would, you know,
hold them, and mess
with them to entertain
the very young children.
So they thought, so according to
most of the writings and things,
the ideas that rattles
were the first toys that
they played with.
There are also a lot of tops,
and so some of these; I mean
these are very familiar
toys, you know, to us as well.
And very sophisticated toys,
too, don't you guys think?
This is a top that you wind, you
know, have you seen those and
you pull it out and it spins.
But they also had them that you
would hit with a whip, and that
would make it spin, and so these
were more of the boy's toys.
Rattles were for both
girls and boys.
These are more boy toys.
But girls would play with them,
but for most part, when you saw
the tops, you would see them
for, you would see boys pictured
playing with them.
Wheeled toys were very popular.
There's a picture of a wheeled
toy in the last scene
showed a wheeled toy.
There are depictions of children
riding those, older children
even would have little tiny
miniature chariots and things,
but many of them were used for
children to learn to walk.
Just like we do now.
And so they have old, I was
going to say photographs, they
were not photographs, they have
old there's actually a vase that
I saw that had a child that was
a you know, tiny child, that in
what I would call a walker, you
know, it was a wooden structure,
and the child is you know,
walking around in it.
So, again, very, very
similar to what we did.
And that tells us as
well, that children were
given more freedom.
When you see children in things
like walkers, that means that
independence, learning to walk,
you know, learning to move on
your own, all of that is
important, as opposed to a child
that you would see that would be
swaddled, you know, and held
close, and not
exploring as much.
And then balls, of course, so,
sometimes the children would
make their own toys, and
balls were very common
for them to make.
So they would use the bladders
of an ox, or you know, animals,
and they would smooth them, and
round them and make them strong,
they had leather balls, most
of those we know about
because of the writing.
Of course, you know, they didn't
make it through to now, you
know, we don't have the
artifacts to look at, but we
have the written, and the
pictorial emphasis on balls.
Balls there actually are five
different words for different
types of balls that were used
throughout that time period.
So, again, mostly boys,
but girls would play
with balls as well.
There are very few girls in some
of the depictions with ball,
mostly boys, but some girls.
And they were again, on up until
they were something the children
would do, up until they gave
their toys away and you know,
reached what they
would call adulthood.
Of course, dolls, and dolls were
generally for females.
I found the dolls to be
extremely interesting because
here are two examples.
So this is
considered to be a doll.
They thought that it might
have some kind of soft material
making up the head and the arms,
but you can see the little legs,
you know hanging.
But this is also a doll, and
it, some of them were extremely
details, you know, articulated,
which means they would move,
they had almost not really an
animatronic, but ones that would
need bread, it would have a
little handle on it that would
move back and forth and the doll
was actually made to where it
would knead bread, they would
walk, dancing dolls were
extremely popular at the time,
so all kinds of different dolls
doing household tasks.
And that was considered to
be very important.
The dolls, you can see from this
doll, the dolls were nude, which
tells us that then they
had cloth clothing.
So if they had painted on
clothing, then that would be
very different.
So what they speculate,
and again, according to the
writings, what they think is the
little girls would actually make
the clothes for the dolls, dress
the dolls, and you know were
very interactive with the dolls,
and very creative with the way
they dressed them, and what they
had them do, which again is
something that we
like, and we advocate.
And like I said, the night
before the wedding, they were
given away.
Knucklebones, that's these
pictures right there, the
children playing knucklebones,
and those are knucklebones.
They were used for gambling,
basically, playing, almost like
dice, they did have some dice
and domino kind of looking
materials, but this was
considered to be one of the most
popular games of the time.
And they would gamble with
little nuts and berries and
things when they were little,
and there's actually quite a few
writings about how the child has
traded in his nuts for money.
And now he is
wagering for money.
So, I guess, it's kind of like
I was talking about before.
Maybe the kids that played
knucklebones then grew up to be
gamblers, I don't know, but,
there was a lot of gambling
going on with children and
adults at that time period.
They had a lot of toy animals,
and so this was kind of
interesting to me too, because
most of the animals that they
have found, have been portrayed,
have been just common animals
that would be in their daily
life, which again, we really
like in early childhood.
So, there were a few examples of
dolphins and lions, and some of
the more exotic animals, but for
the most part they were oxen,
dogs, you know, the animals
that would be in the
children's daily lives.
Interestingly, there weren't any
nonsensical characters, you
know, any
mythological characters.
They haven't found any
indication that children played
with anything like that.
It was either the balls, the
games, or the dolls and animals
were real world models
of what they saw.
So that's very interesting given
our talking cars, and bananas,
and you know everything that we
do now, so it's very different
than what we do.
And then of course,
they had games.
So games that you know, strength
and agility were considered to
be very important, so games like
tug of war, and you know leading
into the sports type games.
Ok, so what do we do now?
So, I am going to move into
contemporary views of play.
Any questions or anything about?
All right, so we have now
something called "edutainment"
which to me is the worst word
in the whole entire world.
Well, not the world, there are
worse words, but it's pretty
bad, in my area.
And that's the idea of using
play, using entertainment to
educate children.
And so what we do is we try to
slyly slide in lessons when we
are teaching, you know, we are
teaching children and then we
say it is through play, and then
basically what we are doing, we
are doing lessons with them that
are kind of fun, and we call
that edutainment, and we think
that that's play.
So, this, it's not new, actually
Walt Disney used the term, and
he's the first person in writing
to use the term back in the
'40's with his national
geographic videos and things
like that, but even things like
Aesop's Fables, you know, so
when you read a story, it has a
moral lesson for the children,
so we've been doing it but in
contemporary society, we've kind
of gotten out of
control with that.
So, we tend to believe that
children are not really learning
anything unless they have some
kind of product, or have
memorized something, or have
something to show for it.
I see that over and over in
the child development lab.
People will come pick up a
two-year-old child and say, oh
you didn't do anything today?
Because they don't have a
painting, or a, I don't know, a
spaghetti necklace, or
something, whatever you know, to
show their families.
And I'll say, well we blew
bubbles, we took a walk, we rode
in the elevator, those are all
really good things for two year
olds to do, and they are really
fun, and we don't have any you
know documentation that they
learned anything, but they do,
you know, so we are very focused
on some kind of product, some
kind of educational background
with this trickle-down.
So you know back in the '80's
when I was going, when I started
to go to college, you know, I
just got up one morning and came
and took my ACT test.
Now when it came time for my
sons to do it, they had prep
classes, they had 75 dollar
books you had to buy on how to
take it, you know, and that's
ok, we're grown ups.
But what that does, is it
trickles down, until you see
things like Baby Einstein for
preschool children and infants,
and so you have computer
programs to teach my very
favorite is teaching children
how to get dressed, there's a
computer program for that.
And so, it has a person like a
paper doll person stand like
this, and it's got clothes all
over the place, and the children
on the computer are supposed to
click and drag the clothes.
So, like if they drag underwear
to the head, it'll go back where
you know, it only stops, if you
put it in the right place.
You know what I mean.
So, is that a good way to teach
children how to get dressed?
So the same people that will
dress a child and say leave you
shoes on, you are driving me
nuts, quit taking your shoes off
and on, that's how children
learn how to dress, so they'll
not let them play with clothes,
and sit them in front of the
computer and say, oh they love
their computer, they are just
learning all kinds of
things, you know.
So, that's what we are seeing
now, and so what I would like to
see is moving back to the
ancient Greece idea of just
letting children play.
And understanding that like
Aristotle and Plato said, they
are learning, they are learning
about everyday life, they are
learning about how to
talk to one another.
You know, everything that they
need to know, they are learning
through play at young ages, so
appreciating that and giving
credibility to just play
is extremely important.
I do have one more slide I want
to show you, we also have a lot
of technology now.
And our technology, well, we've
always had technology, I guess,
but our technology now
is often computerized.
And so, what happens is children
are given things, and I have
little videos, but I am running
out of time, so let me hurry, so
like this little kitchen, that's
a kitchen, basically, right?
I mean, that's what it is.
And to the point that it even
has things that will tell the
children what to do.
So when you turn on the water,
it makes a water sound, there's
a computer you know inside,
it'll say things like you should
put the dish in the oven, you
know, things, and they'll take
it and put the dish in the oven,
so we don't like things like
this in early childhood.
What I would rather see is a
great big box and it can be a
kitchen, or it can be an
airplane, or it could be a space
shuttle, it could be anything.
This is just a kitchen.
And they might pretend
sometimes, it is other things,
but their imagination
is already cut for them.
You know, they are being told
how to play, they are being
prompted in things like you
know, fry your chicken now, put
your macaroni and cheese in the
refrigerator, these kind of
things, it's very crazy to me.
This is a walker to teach
children how to walk,
and oh my gosh, it buzzes, it
sings songs, it, the little, let
me just show you a little
while I talk because it
is actually very interesting.
It amuses me because, [video
plays] and so we've got all this
going on, encourages
language development, sensory
development, anyway.
Whoops, I don't want to
close everything here.
Let me turn that off now.
There's the part I like, it
says, "IT even has a butterfly".
Oh, well, ok.
So, anyway, these kind of play
activities, they shape the
child's play, the child
doesn't' shape their play.
It hinders imagination, and
they cost a fortune.
You've all heard the
stories, or seen it yourself.
You buy a child an expensive
toy, and then they play with the
box and the wrapping paper, and
put the ribbon on their head,
and you know, all of that.
So we don't really need
to be doing that.
So I am running out of time.
I am going to stop, but brain
development research does show
that we don't have
to do all of this.
The ancient Greeks had it right.
Just let children play.
That acculturates them, it
allows them to practice adult
roles, we don't have to push our
values, and our ideas of play on
children, so the more we can
look back at the way they did
it, and give credibility to
play, let children play then I
think the better that
they'll be as adults.
So, I am finished,
any questions?
[applause] Thank you.
>> Dr. Wahby: Would you like to
have any questions now, or after
[unclear dialogue]. Do
you want to go now?
>> Student: I have a question. 
>> Dr. Meadows: Yes, 
>> Calvin Jones: I was just
wondering if well basically a
couple of things.
One thing you noted about how
the children have a reliance on
technology, because basically
they are being told how to
think, what to think, and in
what order to think it.
That is going to transition in
to adulthood, which is what we
are being as adults, so now, how
to think, what to think, and if
you don't think this
way, then you are wrong.
So, it's like when the children
click on a certain image to or
clothing items to put on, no, it
doesn't go there, there should
be a period of time when they
should learn this on their own.
But just to quickly, that's one
point, and another thing, is how
you mentioned, I just thought it
was interesting how the back in
ancient Greece, when the lady
was only when she was about to
become married, then she gave
away her toys, and then it
signified that her childhood was
over, I just thought that it was
kind of funny, because in
today's society, at least in
America, we as men, retain those
toys, that we even get more, 
>> Dr. Meadows: Get more, right.
Try to find them again.
>> Calvin: Try to find them
again, that is true, so I just
thought those were
interesting points,
and I enjoyed your
presentation.
>> Dr. Meadows:
Thank you. Thank you.
>> Dr. Wahby:
Any other questions?
I know you have, if you take
notes, keep them, and you can go
to the honey and the wealth.
How about that?
[applause] 
>> Oyindamola Idowu: Good
evening everyone, and I am glad
you are here.
My name is Oyindamola Idowu.
Like Dr. Wahby said, don't try
to pronounce it.
I would like to start
off with a disclaimer.
I will be presenting tonight
about things that happened
between the 4th and the
8th century BC, I was not
born at that time.
And everything that i will say
here tonight, I got from books
here at the Booth Library.
And a few books from the library
in Canada, so this presentation
is not a story my
grandfather told me.
So, the ideal
Ancient Greek woman.
Greek writers, mostly men,
they were precise about their
definition of an ideal woman.
She was beautiful and she had a
soft voice, she was intelligent,
only in terms of
raising children,
and running the household.
She had to be told and [unclear
dialogue] because childbearing
was one of the major reasons
while women married
in that time.
She had to be
passive, and modest.
Women were not expected to look
at anybody in the eyes, they had
to be submissive and silent, and
if possible, totally invisible.
So, Greek [unclear dialogue] the
first problem that a Greek child
would have, was to be given the
chance to leave, and like Dr.
Meadows said, that was a
decision that would be
made by the father.
For two reasons, one, they
were a considered an expensive
addition to the household, they
were required dowry, and they do
carry on the family name.
So that was a decision
that the father had to make.
The girl's education was
limited to what was needed
for textile production.
How to behave in society,
and just the basics of
reading and writing.
The girls will grow up in the
[unclear dialogue] which is the
woman quarters of the house.
It's mostly private, and it
will be on the upper part
of the buildings.
It is where the women raised the
children, made fabrics,
entertained all the female
visitors, it was just their
part, their little
part of the house.
And although the Greek woman was
secluded, she was secluded to
that part of the house.
She was in charge of
the entire household.
She had to, she was the
storekeeper, she was in charge
of the slaves, in wealthy homes,
and like one of those things
that I found interesting, was a
wife's efficiency was a factor
that determined whether a
household should prosper.
So she was like a manager.
And to me was just like a
glorified domestic slave.
She was like the head to the
slaves and the children.
This still pictures that
although the primary roles of a
wife was child-bearing and
textile production this picture
shows a woman spinning and
the other women weaving
a fabric I guess.
And the ideal ancient Greek
woman was expected to be silent.
They said the perfect woman was
one of whom nothing was heard
of, either good or bad.
She was just silent all
the time; she lives the
life in the background.
[Unclear dialogue] although
there was a clue that the women
left the house at certain points
in time, sometimes to fetch
water outdoors that was
something done by slaves in rich
homes, the women left the house
to visit the tombs of dead
family members, they visited
cemeteries, they attended public
performances, but during all of
those activities they had to be
inconspicuous, to the
best of their ability.
That painting shows a woman that
was about to leave the house,
and they had to wrap a veil
around and cover a large
percentage of their face,
and their neck was not
expected to be exposed.
Women that were found on the
street, not like, not dressed
like that were considered to
be prostitutes or slaves.
And wedding in ancient Greece,
or marriage, was, it was more of
an obligation of a man for
the legal continuation
of his family.
So, a man of about 30 years of
age would be married to a girl
between 12 and 15, and the
girl was not even contacted.
It would be a contract between
the father of the bride,
and the groom.
So, the girl was she might not
even meet the groom before the
day of the marriage, and there
was a time when the bridegroom
would have to bring rich
gifts to get the girl's
hand in marriage.
But that changed in later times,
then the bride will actually
have to contribute a dowry.
That was the time that the
father's didn't want to keep
their female children anymore.
On the day of the wedding, the
bride will be dressed, she will
be washed, and dressed by all
the older female relatives, and
most times they wore white
garments, which was assumed,
which was believed to be the
color for religious ceremonies,
so I don't know, but I think
that's where we got the white
wedding dresses that we now use.
And also they shared cakes at
their weddings to symbolize the
desire for [unclear
dialogue] of the union.
So, like I said, I don't know
but we have wedding cakes now.
I think it was a Greek thing.
And at the night of the wedding,
the father of the bride will
make sacrifices to [unclear
dialogue] who they believed was
the god of fertility,
and childbirth.
They would also give the toys
of the girl to this goddess.
And not [unclear dialogue] the
bride, the groom would have to
conduct the bride and they said
that the groom holding the bride
on the wrist was a
sign of I got you.
So that was caused why they hold
them by the wrist, and sometimes
they would conduct her to
a new home on a chariot
if it were a rich man.
And if not, they
would just go on foot.
So, the wedding or marriage, was
a huge transition for a Greek
girl, because at age 12, when I
guess I was still learning to
cross the street, she would
abandon childhood, and ascend
into adulthood, leave her
mother's care, and transition
into the care of a man
whom she had never met.
So it was a moment of crisis
for Greek girls according to
documentation and documents that
I read, and also at that time,
because a new bride was anxious
to bear a child, that was the
only thing on her mind, so she
worried about that, and at that
time, childbirth was the main,
was about fifty percent,
constituted about fifty percent
of the mortality rate in women.
Because there was, they didn't
have advanced medical technology
like we have now.
So, scholars believed that the
ancient Greek women had a life
span of about forty years.
Because they had numerous
pregnancies, although they
believed that contraceptives
were available at that time, but
it was only [unclear dialogue]
so they have numerous
pregnancies, and at about age
27, and maybe the woman is
pregnant also, she is getting
ready to give her first child's
hand in marriage.
So, Greek women didn't live so
long, like we do now, but they
didn't have too many things to
worry about, because the legal
system was structured in such a
way that all through a woman's
life in ancient Greece, she had
no right over her own existence.
She was under the care of her
father or her husband at any
point in her life.
Publicly, legally, the husbands
would prevail at all times.
Women had no rights to vote,
like some of you did today,
I guess.
But, this is not to say that
happy marriages were impossible
in ancient Greece.
Periodeces and [unclear
dialogue] are the happiest
couple recorded in
Greek literature.
And like Homer said, he said
that Daileces paid attention to
each other.
Maybe it was an arranged
marriage, but it looked like it
worked out for them fine.
So, I was thinking, all of this,
women was secluded, they could
not vote, they could not even
think for themselves, and then I
began to wonder why?
So, why Ancient Greek women were
secluded was because the Greeks
believed that women lacked the
ability to control their
physical cravings, so it was the
role of the man in their life
to help her maintain her
dignity, even if it
required lock and key or she had
to be incapacitated, so that is
why they were secluded.
And why women had to lower
their gaze all the times, they
believed that the woman's gaze
carried a lot of power, and it
could actually, it could
render a warrior powerless.
So, women were expected to lower
their gaze, it was a plot to
diffuse what the assumed to
be the woman's weaponry.
Also why the girls
had to marry early?
While the assumed that the
uterus was the source of
whatever hysteria a woman would
have, so, they had to marry
early to make sure
that does not happen.
Why women were excluded from
matter of the state.
Like Aristotle said, he said in
a woman the daily [unclear
dialogue] in the soil is
present but ineffective.
Like women had weak minds, He
also said that women have memory
in light degree, but
that the female nature
lacks intellectual strength.
So that's why women were
excluded from matters
of the state.
They believed that it was too
sensitive a thing for creations
with weak minds to handle.
So that is why
they were excluded.
While today's woman exhibits
more independence of thought,
and today a beautiful woman is
not just, it not just about the
physical appearance anymore, it
is now about what she carries on
the inside, so the ideal woman
today is still, should still be
noticed, confident and is more
intelligent beyond what is
required for housekeeping and
she also exhibits a high degree
of self [unclear dialogue]
whether she is kept under lock
and key, or not.
But Greeks believed that the
woman's nature was dangerous to
even herself, and it could cause
a huge damage to the society.
So all of the laws about the
legal system, and all the laws
about women, was to insure
that they bore legitimate
children to their husbands.
That way, the family fortune was
passed down to younger
generations in confidence.
One thing that I find
interesting was the belief that
the Greeks believed that the
woman is a virtuous embodiment
of the home and the family.
This is a contradiction to me,
when they said that she has no
control, physical cravings, and
then they use the word virtuous.
So, this contradiction the
Greeks that try to contain it,
by comparing women to horses.
They said a woman's beauty
nobility and likely wild nature
would not be diminished by
domestication, but can be
enabled to flourish
in [unclear dialogue].
So, I know this is a sharp
transition, from women and
marriage and death, but funeral
rites were the only public thing
that women were allowed to do.
That is why I have this
on my presentation.
Greeks believed that once a
person dies, the spirit leaves
the body, and they placed a lot
of importance on funeral rites,
because they believed it was an
insult to human dignity for a
body to be left unattended.
I think we still do.
I do it too.
Well, it was considered a
woman's public duty and also it
was like a display of family
wealth when people died
in Ancient Greece.
Like these two pictures are
pictures of tombs, and obviously
this is a richer family.
So, they would make expensive
tombs, and put personal items in
it sometimes jewelries, and
gold, and precious stones, just
to show how rich the family
was, or how important the
person who died was.
So, funerals were like
a three stage thing.
The prothesis was the stage
where the body would be washed,
and placed on an elevated
surface like that, and the
families would come around, and
weep and pay their last respect.
The ekphora was the funeral
procession, and that's the women
would carry the
body for burial, and
if the body was cremated, they
would take the ashes.
And the forth stage was, I won't
try to pronounce, it, but it was
the part where they would come
back, wipe their tears, dress up
on festive, clothes, and merry.
They would celebrate the life of
the deceased, and they also
believed that the spirit of the
dead was there with them.
So, I found this in a book here
in the library, and it caught my
attention, because I
am a christian.
It said that according to
christian teaching, death offers
a way of salvation [unclear
dialogue] for a christian the
prospects of life after death,
stands as a consolation, for the
[unclear dialogue] of this life.
It means that christians believe
that death is a way to rest, to
eternal rest, while the
documentation shows that the
greeks, the ancient greeks were
afraid of death, like Achilles
said, he would rather be a
laborer here on earth, than be
the king or the lord in
the land of the dead.
The Greeks also believed that
there was a consequence for
living a good or a bad life.
They believed that when a
person dies, he will go
to either of two places.
Either the Elysian Fields, which
was like the paradise, for the
good, or the Hades, which is the
dark, scary place where the bad
people will be tortured.
They also believed that denying
a person a proper burial means
that they would never find rest.
And their spirit would just
wander around in the underworld,
would not go to the Elysian
Fields or to the Hades.
So, do you have any
questions? [applause]
>> Dr. Wabhy: Very interesting.
We took it from child to the
birth to, any questions?
I tell my students that you
can't tell me that for an hour
you listened to all these ideas,
and you have no questions.
That would be a problem.
I have a question
for you please.
>> Dr. Meadows: For Me?
>> Dr. Wahby: Yes, and you
prepare for questions, as well.
We will have two
minutes, so don't worry.
Where would you draw the line
between imposing on children,
anything, and the upbringing of
them, or helping them to the
proper way that
we think is proper?
>> Dr Meadows: Well, we, so we
want to socialize children.
That's the role of adults.
But, it's very easy to follow
their lead, you know, so, I
think as long as we follow the
children's lead, and again, if
we are teaching them,
we are teaching them.
If we are instructing them,
we are instructing them.
But if they are
playing, they are playing.
You know, and so they learn
through play, but as far as us
imposing our views on
them during play,
we look down on that.
Does that answer you question, I
am not sure if I understand.
>> Dr. Wahby: Yes, there was a
case that was seen I think when
I came here first time 20 or 25
years ago, I saw that mother and
father were sued by whoever,
that they made their son 7
years, 8 years, to be able to go
and join a college, he was, they
took his childhood, they said,
from 3 of age, and five years of
his childhood they made him
Einstein, so they sued them.
Some organization of child abuse
or something, said you deprived,
I remember the words,
you deprived your child
from his childhood.
How would you respond to that?
>> Dr. Meadows: I
would agree with that.
I think that we very
much push children.
And we push children, because we
think it's best for them, and so
we want our chldren to succeed,
we want them to do well, and we
feel like if we don't
start early, they are
going to be behind.
And it's difficult in mainstream
society, right now, so it's hard
for adults to step
back from that.
But I think people would be
amazed by how much children
learn just through daily
interactions, reading to them,
spending time with them,
actually the number one
indicator of future success of
children is reading to them,
that's the number one indicator.
And they think that that's
because of the fact that when
you are reading to a child you
are often, either holding them,
or sitting close to them, so you
are spending time with them, and
there's language involved.
You are talking to them.
So, children that are read to,
and are allowed to play, tend to
do better actually in school
than children that are, you
know, drilled on their
ABC's, and things like that.
So we are just mixed up
on what causes children
to learn more effectively.
>> Dr. Wahby: Ok, I have two
questions for Oyindamola, but
I'll ask another question.
Anybody, I don't want
to, say your name.
>> Marschelle: My name is
Marschelle McCoy and my question
was about the burial rituals.
Do you know why or when
cremation would be used, like
was cremation used in certain
circumstances, or for lesser
privileged families,
do you know?
>> Oyindamola: I think it was
more of a choice, I think it was
more of a choice, because so
far, all the documents I have
read, said they were either
buried the normal way or they
would cremate them, depending on
the choice of the family.
>> Marschelle: Of the father?
>> Oyindamola: Of the family.
>> Marschelle: And
then, along with that,
why might somebody
be denied burial?
>> Oyindamola: Hmm.
Does someone have an answer?
[laughter] I am not sure but I
think it could happen.
>> Dr. Meadows: I would say
things like unclaimed bodies, or
people that didn't have
families, or things like that.
>> Oyindamola: Yeah, or people
who died like warriors die on
the battlefield, you know.
It happens sometimes, it happens
when we are away from home, and
they might never find the body,
or like now, we are in the, we
would go and get the body, and
give it a proper burial, and say
at least this is the
remains that we have.
>> Well, along with that, what
did they do with the children?
>> Dr. Meadows: That was, I was
going to ask that question, too,
did you find anything about
the burials of children,
as opposed to adults?
>> Oyindamola: The burial,
the exposed children,
or children who just died?
>> Dr. Meadows: Either one.
>> Oyindamola: I found nothing
concerning the burial of
children, but I know that they
found tombs with toys in them,
which indicated that it was a
child's tomb, which means
children were given
proper burials, too.
They took time to bury
them, and put their toys in it.
>> I meant the exposed chldren.
>> Dr. Meadows: If children were
exposed, you know basically,
it's like when I put my garbage
out there, I don't pay any
attention to what
happens to it again.
You know, they were just, and
they were picked up and
discarded just like any other
garbage would be, if they
weren't claimed by somebody
else, but see sometimes they
were claimed by childless women,
or by older women, that you
know, their children were gone,
if they lived long enough by
enslaved families,
people like that.
So the hope was that they would
be claimed by somebody else, but
of course that
didn't always happen.
>> Dr. Wahby: Have you read
anything about like orphanages,
or some society like that?
>> Dr. Meadows: No, I didn't see
anything like that.
>> Dr. Wahby: So
there was no discarded
>> Dr. Meadows: No, I didn't.
There was a lot of taking in, so
you know, when we say the baby
was exposed, then you know, it
could die, obviously, especially
depending upon what the weather
was, and if it was hungry, how
quickly it was rescued, but a
lot of the idea was just this
shifting around, like we didn't
want it anymore, but a family of
enslaved individuals might take
it, you know, somebody else, but
there weren't, I didn't find
anything related to orphanages,
or anything like that.
>> Dr. Wabhy: Why women and the
funerals, they wear black, was
black the color for sadness, or
>> Oyindamola: No, that was the
vase painting, so I guess most
times, the vases were orange,
and black is the perfect color
to show on orange, so I don't
know the color
they wore. But if
>> Dr. Wabhy: It looked to
me like the dresses were black.
>> Oyindamola: No, the
painting was black.
>> Dr. Wahby: ok.
Cremation was well-known, well
practiced in ancient greece?
>> Oyindamola: Yes, either they
were buried the normal way or
they were cremated, so 
>> Dr. Wahby: so, did they get
this from southeast Asia, or
from far east, or is it kind of?
>> Oyindamola: I believe it is a
practice that they started.
>> Dr. wahby: because, what i
read, I am not sure this kind
of, I read that cremation came
to America from South Asian,
eastern religion, so forth, I am
not sure when that, but this is,
ok, to you.
What's wrong about in telling
Grandma you ABC's?
>> Dr. Meadows: What we advocate
with children is that you don't
do things with children that you
wouldn't do with an adult.
You know, 
>> Dr. Wahby: You would not.
>> Dr. Meadows: Right.
So we respect children though 
>> Dr. Wahby:
Who said this rule?
Who said that?
>> Dr. Meadows: Me.
[laughter] No, it's part of
developmentally appropriate
practice, which comes
out of mu area,
in early childhood development.
But I guess I don't know that
I've ever read that, said that
way, but my idea is like, you
know, I don't come up to you and
pat you on the head, and
talk about how cute you are.
You know, it's insulting, you
are cute though, but it's
insulting, you know what I mean?
It's insulting to make people
perform for our entertainment,
without a choice, and children,
what they start doing, that's
how they get
their self-worth then.
And so, that's why I'll get
students that'll come and say, I
worked really hard on that
though, and I don't know why you
gave me a D, because I
worked really hard.
And so, this idea that you are
performing and everybody claps,
and you just, you know, that
kind of thing, it's not
internally motivated.
Now, if children just
spontaniously, "Look at what I
can do," then it's extremely
appropriate to say, oh look at
what you can do, you can say
your ABC's, but to put them on
the spot to perform for us all
the time, is just disrespectful.
>> Dr. Wahby: Did you have
the same students who told
me the same thing?
[laughter] I am sorry you can
work hard and wrong.
Another one told me I paid
for that class and I have to
get an A, because I am paying.
Now, children without anything,
see you draw the peach, say
mommy, mommy, look at me, look
at what I am doing?
And let's face it, adults are
being starred in the movies in
Hollywood, or are being in the
congress, or being wherever,
they do this for the same old
thing, mommy, see me.
> Dr. Meadows: Right, it's
external, 
>> Dr. Wahby: So, why do you
think it is something to say how
cute you are.
Because everybody wants to be
praised, not in a bad sense, but
to be appreciated you have
knowledge.
>> Dr. Meadows: Right, and
that's true, but so for
instance, I want to be
appreciated for what I've
accomplished, and so, if I leave
here tonight, and somebody says
to me, you know, I didn't really
like that presentation, I don't
get my self-worth from that.
You know, I don't get my
self-worth from other
people's praise.
>> Dr. Wahby: Yes, I agree, 
>> Dr. Meadows: And that's what
we do to children when we
praise them.
>> Dr. Wahby: I think
this is right, and
another sight for it,
we would love to see that we
were successful, we strived to
what we wanted, because if
somebody tells me my
presentation was not good, so I
really failed to convey, when he
or she honestly would tell me
that was to the point, you drove
it home, I am really, I feel
that I accomplished, I acheived
somehting, so 
>> Dr. Meadows: Right, but young
children can't filter that
information the way adults do,
and it just basically trains
them to perform for us, instead
of choosing their own
activities, that please them,
they are choosing things to
entertain us.
Do you see what I mean?
