♪ MUSIC ♪
>>WELCOME TO GLOBAL
PERSPECTIVES.
I'M DAVID DUMKE
WITH KATIE CORONADO.
TODAY WE WELOME A LUMINARY
IN THE FIELD OF DIVERSITY
AND INCLUSION, DR. PEGGY
MCINTOSH OF WELLESLEY
COLLEGE'S CENTERS FOR WOMEN.
SHE JOINS US AT A TIME
WHEN OUR NATION SEEMINGLY
DEBATES WHAT IT MEANS TO
BE AN AMERICAN IN THE 21ST
CENTURY.
DR MCINTOSH, WELCOME TO
GLOBAL PERSPECTIVES.
>>THANK YOU.
HAPPY TO BE HERE.
>>WELCOME, DR. MCINTOSH.
WE'D REALLY LIKE TO OPEN
BY ASKING WHAT YOU DEFINE
AS DIVERSITY AND
INCLUSION, AND THEN GO
INTO, IN DEPTH WHAT THE
WORK YOU'VE DONE IN THIS
FIELD.
>>WELL FOR ME, DIVERSITY
MEANS VARIETY, AND
INCLUSION MEANS BRINGING
TOGETHER, IN HUMAN SENSE
EVERYBODY, SO THAT
EVERYBODY FEELS THEY
BELONG.
>>OKAY, AND WHEN YOU SAY
EVERYBODY FEELS THEY
BELONG, WHAT HAVE YOU DONE
TO INFLUENCE THE RESEARCH
IN THIS AREA?
AND SPECIFICALLY WHEN IT
COMES TO THE SUBJECT OF
WHITE PRIVILEGE.
>>I'VE DONE A GREAT
DEAL FOR MANY YEARS ON
BRINGING, MAKING THE
CIRICULUM INCLUDE MORE
PEOPLE RACIALLY,
GENDER-WISE,
GEOGRAPHICALLY,
RELIGIOUSLY.
BUT MY WORK ON WHITE
PRIVILEGE CENTERS AROUND
AN AUTO-BIOGRAPHICAL
LIST OF WAYS IN WHICH I
DISOVERED I HAD UNEARNED
ADVANTAGE BY BEING BORN
WHITE IN A SYSTEM THAT
FAVORS WHITES, AND THAT IS
NOT A SYSTEM THAT
INCLUDES EVERYBODY
EQUALLY.
>>DID YOU GET- WHEN YOU
WROTE THIS PAPER THAT HAS
BEEN SO INFLUENTIAL IN THE
FIELD OF DIVERSITY AND
INCLUSION IN 1988, DID YOU
GET RESISTANCE AT THE TIME
IMMEDIATELY, AND HAS
THAT RESISTANCE GROWN OR
DIMINISHED IN YEARS SINCE?
>>I DIDN'T GET RESISTANCE
IMMEDIATELY BECAUSE IT WAS
SEEN AS A NEW ANGLE OF
VISION.
NOT ABOUT BEING
DISCRIMINATED AGAINST, BUT
ABOUT BEING COMPARATIVELY
FREE FROM DISCRIMINATION.
AND SO PSYCHOLOGISTS FOUND
IT USEFUL AS A STUDY AND A
COMPARITIVE PIECE OF MIND.
AND THEN SOCIOLOGISTS
FOUND THAT IT WAS USEFUL
AND STUDIED ABOUT GROUPS,
GROUP EXPERIENCE.
MY WORK IS MORE ABOUT
GROUP POWER, THAN
INDIVIDUALS, BUT MY PAPER
IS, THE ONE YOU'RE TALKING
ABOUT, IS VERY
INDIVIDUALISTIC.
IT'S ABOUT MY EXPERIENCE,
BY CONTRAST, WITH
AFRICAN-AMERICAN WOMEN IN
MY BUILDING, IN MY LINE OF
WORK IN THE EARLY 1980'S.
I DIDN'T GET A LOT OF
PUSH-BACK THEN, BUT
GRADUALLY ANGER FROM
PEOPLE WHO HAD CLASS
PRIVILEGE, WHO HAD NOT
GOT CLASS PRIVILEGE.
SOME OF THEM, RATHER
CARELESSLY, READ MY LIST
OF ADVANTAGES AS SPEAKING
FOR ALL WHITES, WHEREAS I
WAS ONLY SPEAKING FOR
MYSELF IN MY INDIVIDUAL
EXPERIENCE, AND IN MY LINE
OF WORK, AND IN MY PLACE
OF LIVING.
AND THAT, SOMEHOW RATHER,
THAT RESISTANCE TO THE
IDEA OF WHITE PRIVILEGES
UNTIL RECENTLY, IT HAS
BEEN OVERRIDDEN BY THE
USEFULNESS OF THIS
ANALYSIS TO MANY MANY
WHITE PEOPLE WHO TELL ME,
"I NEVER HEARD OF, I NEVER
THOUGHT OF ANY OF THIS
BEFORE." AND OF COURSE I
GET THANKED BY PEOPLE OF
COLOR WHO SAY, "IN EFFECT,
YOU SHOWED ME I'M NOT
CRAZY.
I KNEW THERE WERE ASPECTS
OF THE CULTURE THAT WERE
WORKING AGAINST ME, BUT IT
WASN'T OUTRIGHT RACISM.
AND YOU GAVE ME NAMES, YOU
GAVE ME NAMES." >>YOU'VE
WORKED OBVIOUSLY A LOT
IN TRYING TO PROMOTE
DIVERSITY AND INCLUSION,
BUT BEFORE WE GET INTO
SOME OF YOUR CURRENT WORK,
I WANT TO ASK A QUESTION
ABOUT THE HISTORY OF
SOME OF THIS PRIVILEGE.
WHERE DOES IT COME FROM?
WHERE IS IT ROOTED?
>>NOBODY KNOWS
WHERE IT CAME FROM.
NOBODY KNOWS WHY, WHY
EUROPEANS FELT ENTITLED TO
COLONIZE THE REST OF THE
WORLD, WHERE THEY GOT THE
TECHNOLOGY, THE KNOW-HOW,
THE POWER ON LAND AND ON
SEA TO TAKE OVER
OTHER COUNTRIES.
WE DON'T KNOW
WHERE IT CAME FROM.
SOME PEOPLE THINK, WELL
WHITES ARE INNATELY
SUPERIOR.
I DON'T KNOW.
RIGHT NOW, IN PRESENT DAY
AMERICA, I DON'T THINK
WHITES ARE INNATELY, THAT
IS FROM BIRTH, SUPERIOR TO
DARKER-SKINNED PEOPLE AND
PEOPLE OF OTHER ETHNIC
GROUPS, ESPECIALLY LATIN
AMERICA AND ALL OF SOUTH
ASIA AND EAST ASIA.
I DON'T KNOW.
JARED DIAMOND IN HIS BOOK,
"GUNS AND STEEL", MAYBE
YOU COULD HELP ME WITH
THE JARED DIAMOND TITLE.
HE SPECULATES ON THIS.
HE THINKS IT MAYBE HAS TO
DO WITH CLIMATE OF EUROPE,
THE PHYSCICAL WEATHER
CLIMATE OF EUROPE,
ENABLING IT TO SURVIVE.
"GUNS, GERMS, AND STEEL!"
>>THAT'S IT.
THAT'S IT.
YES.
>>THAT'S IT.
BUT NOBODY KNOWS.
>>WHAT DO YOU SAY TO
PEOPLE WHO MAY BE WATCHING
US NOW WHO SAY, "WELL
I'M WHITE AND I'M NOT
PRIVILEGED." WE'RE TALKING
ABOUT YOUR RESEARCH, THE
ACADEMIC PERSPECTIVE, BUT
FROM YOUR EXPERIENCE,
YOUR POINT OF VIEW.
SO WHAT DO YOU SAY TO THAT
PERSON WHO SAYS, "I'M
WHITE BUT I DON'T FEEL
PRIVILEGED, SO I DON'T
UNDERSTAND.
THIS JUST DOESN'T MAKE
SENSE TO ME." >>YEAH.
WELL, THERE ARE SEVERAL
THINGS TO SAY BUT WHAT I
MOST OFTEN SAY
IS TO THE COPS.
"YOU'RE WHITE." AND THAT'S
A BIG, IMPORTANT FACTOR IN
FEELING SAFE
AND PROTECTED.
YOU MAY NOT HAVE HAD CLASS
PRIVILEGE, AND THAT'S
WHERE THAT QUESTION
USUALLY COMES FROM, A
PERSON WHO HASN'T
HAD CLASS PRIVILEGE.
AND I SAY, "I UNDERSTAND.
YOU MAY NOT HAVE
CLASS PRIVILEGE.
THE SYSTEM OF CLASS
PRIVILEGE IS PRETTY
FEROCIOUS.
THE RICH AND THE
POOR, A HUGE GAP.
YOU MAY BE A VERY POOR
WHITE PERSON OR MAYBE A
WHITE PERSON WHO WAS
DISCRIMINATED AGAINST IN
YOUR COMMUNITY FOR BEING
CATHOLIC OR JEWISH OR
COMING FROM 1ST OR 2ND
GENERATION IMMIGRANT
PARENTS." NEVERTHELESS,
AT LEAST IN MY STATE,
MASSACHUSETTS, THE COPS
WILL SEE YOU AS WHITE.
THAT'S WHITE PRIVILEGE,
BEING SPARED A FAIR AMOUNT
OF SUSPICION, A FAIR AMOUNT
OF FOLLOWING, A FAIR
AMOUNT OF HARASSMENT, ON
THE PART OF AUTHORITIES
BECAUSE THEY THINK MAYBE
YOU'RE NOT RELIABLE,
YOU'RE NOT A GOOD CITIZEN.
MOST WHITES ARE SPARED
DEEP PERSECUTION.
GENDER-WISE, A WHITE
WOMAN IS SAFER.
A WOMAN WHO LOOKS WHITE
IS SAFER THAN A WOMAN OF
COLOR.
I DON'T ARGUE THAT POINT A
GREAT DEAL BECAUSE I CAN
IMAGINE THE FRUSTRATION OF
THOSE WHO SAY, "WELL I'VE
GOT ALL THOSE PRIVILEGES
ACCORDING TO WHAT YOU
SAY." THAT MEANS THEY
HAVEN'T REALLY READ THAT
IT'S AN
AUTOBIOGRAPHICAL PAPER.
BUT, I CAN IMAGINE WHAT
THEY MEAN BY, "NOBODY TOOK
CARE OF ME.
I DIDN'T GET ANYTHING.
I'VE WORKED FOR EVERY
DAMN THING I'VE EVER GOT.
MY FAMILY WORKED HARD.
WE HAVEN'T GOT ANY
ADVANTAGES." I CAN
UNDERSTAND THAT
INDIGNATION.
SO PEOPLE WHO USE THE
PHRASE, "WHITE PRIVILEGE"
SHOULD BE AWARE THAT NOT
ALL WHITES HAVE MY LIST OF
ADVANTAGES.
>>SO YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT
THE INDIGNATION AND
RESPONDING TO A CONCEPT
THAT WAS INDIVIDUAL TO
YOU.
SO HOW DID YOU GET INTO
THIS PARTICULAR FIELD, AND
WHEN DID IT DAWN ON YOU AS
AN INDIVIDUAL, SOME OF THE
THINGS YOU'VE WRITTEN
AND SPOKEN ABOUT?
>>IT DAWNED ON ME BECAUSE
I NOTICED MALE PRIVILEGE,
AND IT WAS IN AN
ACADEMIC SETTING.
IT WAS MALE PRIVILEGE
IN THE CIRICULUM.
WHEN I WENT TO COLLEGE,
EVERY SYLLABUS, EVERY
READING LIST WAS
FULL OF WORKS BY MEN.
I DIDN'T KNOW THAT IT
SHOULD BE ANY DIFFERENT,
BUT WHEN I GOT INTO MY
50'S AND 60'S, I BEGAN TO
REALIZE EVEN AT A GIRL'S
SCHOOL, I HAD BEEN
TEACHING AN ALL-MALE
CIRICULUM AND NOT NOTICING
THAT, NOT ASKING, "WHAT
MIGHT THAT BE DOING TO THE
MINDS OF THESE
YOUNG WOMEN?
THAT EVERYBODY WHO COUNTS
IS MALE IN ALL THE
LITERATURE I'M TEACHING?"
AND IT CAME TO ME THAT I
WAS WHITE IN THIS WAY.
I WAS LEADING A SEMINAR,
BRINING WOMEN INTO THE
CIRICULUM FINALLY, I'D
NOTICED AT WELLESLEY
COLLEGE.
AND THE PEOPLE ATTENDING
THE SEMINAR WERE MEN AND
WOMEN, AND THE MEN
WERE WONDERFUL.
BUT WHEN IT CAME TO THE
QUESTION THE WOMEN BEGAN
TO RAISE, "WHY CAN'T WE
PUT THESE MATERIALS ON
WOMEN INTO THE
FIRST-YEAR COURSES?"
THE MEN, WITHOUT KNOWING
IT, SAID THINGS THAT WERE
OPPRESSIVE.
AND ONE VERY NICE MAN, ALL
THESE MEN WERE VERY NICE.
THEY CAME TO THE SEMINARS
ONCE A MONTH, 5 HOURS WITH
A BIG DINNER.
BUT ONE OF THEM SAID,
"WELL WE CAN'T PUT WOMEN
IN AT THE BEGINNING OF THE
COLLEGE COURSES." AND THE
WAY HE PUT IT WAS THIS
WAY: "WHEN YOU'RE TRYING
TO LAY THE FOUNDATION
BLOCKS FOR KNOWLEDGE IN
THOSE INTRODUCTORY
COURSES, YOU CAN'T PUT IN
SOFT STUFF.
YOU CAN'T PUT IN SOFT
STUFF." NOW, HE HAD BEEN
READING A WHOLE LOT OF
HARD BACK AND SOFT BACK
BOOK BY AND ABOUT WOMEN.
HE'D BEEN, HE WAS A NICE
MAN, BUT HE SORT OF TIPPED
HIS HAND AND SHOWED
US THAT HE'D THOUGHT
EVERYTHING WE'VE BEEN
STUDYING WAS STILL
SOMEWHAT SOFT.
AND 2 YEARS LATER, I FOUND
IN MY NOTES AND OTHER
COMMETNS FROM THE MAN,
"WHEN THE WOMEN IN THE
SEMINAR..." NOW THIS WAS A
BRAND NEW GROUP OF WOMEN
FROM 22 COLLEGES AND
UNIVERSITIES AROUND NEW
ENGLAND, AND THE WOMEN
RAISED THE QUESTION,
"CAN'T WE PUT THE
MATERIALS ON WOMEN IN A
FRESHMAN LEVEL?"
AND A VERY NICE MAN
EXPLAINING TO US SAID,
"YOU CAN'T DO THAT.
SEE, THE FIRST YEAR THE
STUDENTS ARE CHOOSING
THEIR MAJOR, AND THEIR
MAJOR IS THEIR DISCIPLINE.
AND IF YOU WANT A STUDENT
TO THINK IN A DISCIPLINED
WAY, YOU CAN'T PUT IN
EXTRAS." AND NONE OF US
WOMEN IN THE SEMINAR
SAID ANYTHING.
WE HAD NOTHING TO SAY.
WE HAD NOT BEEN TAUGHT TO
SAY ANYTHING TO THAT IDEA
THAT WOMEN ARE EXTRA.
BUT IT GRADUALLY DAWNED ON
ME THAT, WELL, THE MAN WHO
SAID THAT AND ALL THE MEN
IN THE SEMINAR, AND ALL
THE MEN AND WOMEN IN THE
WHOLE WORLD, WERE BORN OF
A WOMEN.
AND WHAT HAS HAPPENED TO
HIS MIND THAT MAKES HIM
SAY, "YOU CAN'T PUT IN
EXTRAS," MEANING WOMEN.
AND WHAT HAS HAPPENED TO
OUR MINDS, THE REST OF THE
SEMINAR MEMBERS,
WHO SAID NOTHING?
AND THEN I DECIDED, OKAY
IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH
WHETHER THESE
ARE NICE MEN.
THEY ARE NICE MEN, BRAVE
TO TAKE A SEMINAR ON
BRINGING WOMEN
INTO THE CIRICULUM.
THEY ARE NICE MEN AND
THEY ARE BRAVE MEN.
THEY ARE OUR FRIENDS, BUT
SOMETHING IN THEIR HEAD
HAS TOLD THEM, AND THEY'RE
VERY GOOD STUDENTS OF IT,
THAT THIS IS A
LIST OF TRUTHS.
MEN HAVE KNOWLEDGE, MEN
MAKE MORE KNOWLEDGE, MEN
PUBLISH AND PROFESS
KNOWLDGE AS PROFESSORS,
AND MEN RUN THE MOST
FAMOUS RESEARCH
UNIVERSITIES, AND THE BEST
KNOWN COLLEGE PRESSES, AND
THEY HAVE DRUNK IN THE
IDEA THAT MEN ARE KNOWERS
AND EVEN KNOWLEDGE
ITSELF IS MALE.
AND IT'S NOT THEIR FAULT.
I WAS TAUGHT EXACTLY THE
SAME AND I DRUNK IT IN
TOO.
I INTERNALIZED IT.
WE ALL INTERNALIZED IT.
THE WORLD OF KNOWLEDGE
BELONGED TO MEN.
>>WHEN YOU BRING THIS OUT,
THIS CONCEPT OUT THOUGH,
IS THERE DENIAL,
ESPECIALLY AMONG MEN WHO
HAVE BEEN VERY SYMPATHETIC
AND NICE AS YOU PHRASE IT?
THEY'VE BEEN YOUR FRIENDS.
BUT DO THEY, NO ONE LIKES
TO BE CALLED, YOU KNOW,
THAT THIS IS AN
OPPRESSOR FOR EXAMPLE.
SO IS THERE A
DENIAL IN THIS TOO?
>>THE MEN WERE
VERY GOOD ABOUT IT.
THEY KNEW THAT SCHOLARSHIP
IN GENERAL, CLAIMS TO BE
ABOUT EXPANDING THE
PARAMETERS OF KNOWN TRUTH.
AND THEY WEREN'T RESENTFUL
ABOUT DISCOVERING THAT
THEY HAD LEFT OUT
HALF THE POPULATION.
HOWEVER, IT REQUIRED A
FAIR AMOUNT OF GUTS TO
TAKE IT IN AND BELIEVE
IT AND ACT ON IT.
BECAUSE PROFESSORS
ARE TAUGHT, WE KNOW.
AND THIS WAS, WELL WE
KNOW SOMETHING ABOUT HALF
THE WORLD'S POPULATION AND
NOT ABOUT THE OTHER HALF.
SO IT TAKES EGO-STRENGTH
TO SURVIVE THAT AND THEN
PUT WOMEN INTO
THE CIRICULUM.
I WROTE A PAPER CALLED,
"WARNING, THE NEW
SCHOLARSHIP ON WOMEN MAY
BE HAZARDOUS TO YOUR EGO,"
BECAUSE WE THOUGHT WE
WERE INDIVIDUALLY PRETTY
EXCELLENT, AND NOW WE
FIND WE WERE COLLECTIVELY
CLUELESS, WE PROFESSORS.
AND IT'S, FOR THE WOMEN
PROFESSORS IT WAS
HAZARDOUS TO OUR EGO AS
WELL, TO SEE HOW MUCH WE
LEFT OUT.
AND THEN WHEN IT COMES TO
THE STUDY OF RELIGION, WE
REALIZED WE'D LEFT OUT ALL
THE BUDDHISM, HINDUISM,
BAOISM, CONFUCIANISM, WE
HAD LEFT OUT ALL OF ISLAM.
WE REALIZED WE HAD
LEFT OUT ALMOST ALL OF
RELIGION.
SO IT DOES REQUIRE A SORT
OF BACK-BONE TO SURVIVE
THE NEW SCHOLARSHIP THAT
IS MORE INCLUSIVE AND
LEARN FROM IT.
>>AND SPEAKING OF NEW
SCHOLARSHIP, SOME OF THE
INFORMATION THAT WE KNOW,
YOU'VE WROTE THAT IN THE
80'S CORRECT?
AND YOU CALLED IT A LIST
OF UNEARNED ADVANTAGES.
CAN WE TALK ABOUT SOME OF
THOSE THINGS ON, I CIRCLED
A FEW DURING YOUR
PRESENTATION, BUT WHICH
ARE THE ONES THAT
STAND OUT FOR YOU?
>>OKAY WELL, BUT FIRST I
WANT TO SAY THAT NOTICING
MALE PRIVILEGE AND WORKING
WITH MEN AS THEY RECOGNIZE
THEY'D LEFT WOMEN OUT, I
CAME ACROSS THE SECOND
ELEMENT THAT LED TO THE
PAPER YOU'RE TALKING
ABOUT.
THE SECOND ELEMENT IS THAT
I HAD INTERNALIZED ALL
THOSE THINGS THAT ABOUT
HOW MEN ARE KNOWERS AND
KNOWLEDGE IS MALE, BUT
BLACK WOMEN IN THE BOSTON
AREA HAD BEGUN TO SAY
THAT WE WHITE WOMEN WERE
OPPRESSIVE TO WORK WITH.
WE WHITE WOMEN WERE
OPPRESSIVE TO WORK WITH.
AND THEN I BEGAN TO
REALIZE THE PEOPLE WE
STUDIED WERE NOT ONLY MALE
BUT THEY WERE WHITE MALES,
AND WE HAD TAKEN IN THAT
WHITENESS AS NORMALCY,
THAT THE NORMAL HUMAN
BEING WAS WHITE.
AND WAS THAT
OPPRESSIVE FOR THEM?
AND I HAD TO SAY YES, AND
WAS I IN POSESSION OF A
CONVICTION THAT WHITENESS
WAS NORMAL AND EVERYBODY
ELSE WAS ABNORMAL, ALL
DARKER-SKINNED PEOPLE WERE
ABNORMAL?
DID THAT MAKE ME
OPPRESSIVE TO WORK WITH?
AND I HATED THESE
QUESTIONS IN THIS PERIOD
OF MY LIFE BECAUSE I WAS
STRUGGLING TO PRESERVE MY
SELF-IMAGE WHILE
UNDERSTANDING THAT I HAD
BEEN QUITE AN EXCLUSIVE
FRAME-OF-MIND, A VERY
WHITE FRAME-OF-MIND.
AND THEN I REALIZED THE
KNOWLEDGE SYSTEM IS ABOUT
WHITE PEOPLE MAKING
KNOWLEDGE, WHITE PEOPLE
HAVE KNOWLEDGE, WHITE
PEOPLE MAKE MORE
KNOWLEDGE, WHITE PEOPLE
PUBLISH AND PROFESS
KNOWLEDGE, WHITE PEOPLE
RUN THE BIG UNIVERSITY
PRESSES AND THE BEST-KNOWN
RESEARCH UNIVERSITIES.
AND WE HAVE TAKEN IN,
AND I HAD TOO OF COURSE,
KNOWLEDGE IS WHITE AND
WHITES ARE KNOWERS.
IT TAKES A WHOLE LOT OF
EGO-STRENGTH TO GET OVER
THE IDEA THAT IN THE
WORLD, THE WHITE PEOPLE
ARE THE ONES WHO KNOW.
SO THEN, I CAN
ANSWER YOUR QUESTION.
>>EXPLAINING THAT AT THE
SAME TIME THAT WE SEE
UNITED STATES WHICH HAS
BECOME MORE DIVERSE.
I'M NOT SAYING MORE
INCLUSIVE, BUT MORE
DIVERSE CLEARLY.
AND THAT INCLUDES ON
UNIVERSITY CAMPUSES.
IT INCLUDES EVEN,
GOVERNMENT TO A CERTIAN
EXTENT AND DOWN THE LINE.
DO YOU SEE PROGRESS
IN THE LAST 3 DECADES?
>>I DO!
LOOK AT THIS UNIVERSITY,
DIVERSIFYING THE THINGS
THAT TEACH US, THE PEOPLE
WHO DO THE TEACHING, THE
WHOLE IDEA OF WHO'S HUMAN.
THIS UNIVERSITY IS
IMPRESSIVE IN HAVING
BECOME MORE INCLUSIVE.
AND AT WELLESLEY COLLEGE
WHERE I'M LOCATED, MORE
THAN HALF OF THE STUDENTS
IDENTIFY AS PEOPLE OF
COLOR, MORE THAN HALF.
AND AT HARVARD, WHERE I
WAS AS AN UNDERGRADUATE,
THE COLLEGE WAS
CALLED RADCLIFFE.
IT'S NOW SLIGHTLY MORE
FEMALE THAN MALE.
GENDER-WISE, THERE'S BEEN
AN EXPANSION OF RESPECT.
>>SO AS WE SEE THIS
EXPANSION OF RESPECT, HOW
DO WE- ARE WE TURNING THAT
DIVERSITY INTO A STRENGTH
IN THIS COUNTRY, OR HAS
THIS BECOME AN ISSUE THAT
WE'RE DEBATING TOO MUCH
AND SOME PEOPLE AGAIN ARE
RESISTING SOME OF THIS?
>>YES, THERE'S QUITE A
DIVISION ON WHETHER THAT
DIVERSITY, THE CHANGES
TOWARD GREATER DIVERSITY
AND INCLUSIVENESS HAVE
BEEN GOOD FOR THE COUNTRY
OR NOT.
SO, YOU HAVE STRONG
MESSAGES FROM THE FEDERAL
GOVERNMENT THAT THAT'S NOT
BEEN A GOOD DEVELOPMENT.
AND THEN STRONG MESSAGES
FROM THE LIBERAL ARTS
COLLEGES, AND ALSO THE
TOWNS RUNNING SCHOOL
SYSTEMS, THAT THE
DIVERSITY AT THE TIME HAS
COME AND WE NEED TO
ACKNOWLEDGE THAT THE PLACE
IS BIGGER THAN WE WERE
TAUGHT WHEN WE WERE
CHILDREN.
THE HUMAN SPACE AND THE
UNITED STATES IS BIGGER
AND SHOULD INCLUDE
EVERYBODY, BUT THE DEBATE
IS QUITE STRONG.
>>I WANTED TO TOUCH ON
SOMETHING YOU MENTIONED
EARLIER.
YOU SAID THAT USING YOUR
PRIVILEGE COULD HELP OR
IMPACT YOUR SPIRITUALITY.
CAN YOU TALK A LITTLE
BIT ABOUT THAT?
>>OKAY, BUT WHY DON'T YOU
READ A FEW OF THE EXAMPLES
WHICH YOU'VE PROMISED
YOUR AUDIENCE.
>>DO YOU WANT ME TO READ
SOME OF YOUR EXAMPLES?
>>YEAH.
>>OKAY.
>>A FEW THAT YOU LIKED.
>>A FEW THAT I LIKED,
THERE'S SO MANY THAT ARE
IMPACTFUL, BUT LET'S SEE,
"I CAN BE SURE THAT MY
CHILDREN WILL BE GIVEN
CIRRICULAR MATERIALS THAT
TESTIFY TO THE EXISTENCE
OF THEIR RACE." CAN YOU
TALK ABOUT THAT ONE?
>>YEAH, THERE WON'T BE ANY
CLASSES THEY'RE ASKED TO
TAKE WHICH WOULD LEAVE
OUT WHITE PEOPLE.
>>"I CAN BE PRETTY SURE
THAT MY NEIGHBORS IN SUCH
A LOCATION WILL BE NEUTRAL
OR PLEASENT TO ME."
>>THAT'S WHEN I CHOOSE TO
LIVE IN A DIFFERENT PART
OF TOWN.
WHEN I MOVE IN, I'M NOT
GOING TO BE SCRUTINIZED
AND ASSUMED TO BE PERHAPS
A THIEF OR A PERSON WHO
HAS GOT UNRULEY
CHILDREN ON DRUGS.
>>"I CAN GO HOME FROM MOST
MEETINGS OF ORGINIZATIONS
I BELONG TO, FEELING
SOMEWHAT TIED IN, RATHER
THAN ISOLATED, OUT OF
PLACE, OUTNUMBERED,
UNHEARD, HELD AT A
DISTANCE, OR FEARED."
>>YES, ON MANY CAMPUSES,
KIDS JOIN ORGINIZATIONS
AND FIND THEY'RE NOT
REALLY WELCOMED.
THEY'RE SEEN AS MARGINAL.
AND THAT LIST
OF VERBS APPLY.
THEY DON'T BELONG.
>>AND THIS LIST IS LONG,
SO WE WON'T GO INTO ALL OF
THEM, BUT THANK YOU FOR
GOING INTO THOSE DETAILS,
AND THAT IS A LIST THAT
MANY ACADEMICS AND PEOPLE
IN GENERAL ARE USING STILL
TODAY SO IT'S IMPORTANT TO
KNOW.
>>YES UNFORTUNATELY THE
LIST IS STILL PRETTY
UP-TO-DATE, EVEN THOUGH
I WROTE IT 30 YEARS AGO.
>>LET ME ASK YOU, BECUASE
WE ONLY HAVE A COUPLE
MINUTES LEFT.
>>WOW.
>>YOU'VE BEEN INVOLVED
WITH SO MANY PROJECTS, BUT
THE SEED PROJECT IS ONE OF
THEM WHERE YOU'RE TALKING
ABOUT, YOU ARE HELPING
TEACHERS AND COMMUNITY
LEADERS CREATE SEMINARS,
YEAR-LONG CONVERSATIONS
THAT ARE PEER-LED.
>>YES.
>>THAT, NOW LET ME ASK
YOU, HOW SUCESSFUL HAVE
THESE BEEN, AND THEN JUST
AS YOU'RE SAYING, THESE
ARE LEARNED- I KNOW.
I'M MISSPEAKING.
>>UNEARNED ADVANTAGES.
>>UNEARNED ADVANTAGES.
CAN YOU TRAIN YOURSELF
TO SEE YOUR SURROUNDINGS
DIFFERENTLY?
>>YES YOU CAN AND THE
MAIN MODE OF SEED SEMINAR
DISCUSSIONS IS WHAT I
CALL, "SERIAL TESTIMONY,"
WHICH IS YOU TESTIFY ONLY
ABOUT YOUR OWN EXPERIENCE,
NOT ABOUT YOUR OPINIONS.
THERE'S A BIG DIFFERENCE
BETTWEEN YOUR EXPERIENCE
AND YOUR OPINIONS.
WE FAVOR EXPERIENCES.
IF YOU GO AROUND A TABLE
OF 10 TO 15 PEOPLE, WHICH
IS NOW TREMENDOUSLY
POPULAR, THEY'RE PREPARING
FOR 150 NEW SEED SEMINARS
AROUND THE COUNTRY EACH
SUMMER.
IF YOU GO AROUND AND
LISTEN TO WHAT OTHERS ARE
SAYING ABOUT THEIR
EXPERIENCE, AND IF IT'S
TIMED, ONE MINUTE AND NO
INTERRUPTIONS, AND IF YOU
MAY NOT PIGGY-BACK ON WHAT
ANYBODY ELSE SAYS, YOU
HAVE TO SPEAK FOR YOURSELF
AND YOUR EXPERIENCE, THE
LEARNING IS HUGE.
THE LEARNING IS ENORMOUS.
YOU GET TO KNOW THE LIVES
OF OTHERS WITHOUT HAVING
TO ARGUE OR BE DEFENSIVE.
YOU CAN JUST SIT
THERE AND TAKE IT IN.
IT'S A LESSON IN THE BREAD
OF THE HUMANITY IN THE
ROOM.
>>WE HAVE LESS
THAN A MINUTE LEFT.
CAN YOU BRIEFLY IN 10
SECONDS TELL US HOW USING
YOUR PRIVILEGE CAN HELP
YOUR SOUL, IN 10 SECONDS.
>>ANYBODY WHO'S DONE A LOT
OF VOLUNTEERING WILL BE
ABLE TO ANSWER SOME OF
THIS BUT IF YOU HAVE
BECAUSE OF ANY KIND OF
PRIVILEGE, MONEY, TIME,
ADMINISTRATIVE ABILITY,
EMPATHY, YOU CAN MAKE OF
YOUR OWN LIFE SOMETHING
THAT IS USEFUL.
I USED TO WANT
TO BE POPULAR.
I FOUND IT WAS
BETTER TO BE USEFUL.
BEING MORE USEFUL
IMPROVES YOUR SOUL.
>>THANK YOU.
>>THANK YOU DR.
PEGGY MCINTOSH.
AND THANK YOU FOR
WATHCING, WE LOOK FORWARD
TO YOU JOINING US FOR
ANOTHER EPISODE OF GLOBAL
PERSPECTIVES SOON.
