[APPLAUSE]
HANNAH SONG: Thank you guys
so much for being here.
As Alyssa mentioned, I'm
the CEO of an organization
called Liberty in North Korea.
We're an international
NGO, as mentioned,
and we focus a bulk of our
work in working directly
with the North Korean people.
And I'll share a little bit
more at the end of my talk,
in terms of what
exactly it is that we do
and why you should probably
get involved with helping us.
So the first slide that's
going to come up here
is actually a well known image.
It's a satellite image--
here we go-- of North Korea.
And so this is the
country we're going
to be talking about here today.
And as you can see,
most of this country
is completely blacked out.
To me, when I see this photo,
what it represents actually
is the fact that there is
tremendous economic and social
progress that South
Korea has achieved
in such a short period of time.
And if the conditions
permitted, that North Korea,
too, could actually achieve
the same type of progress.
Because it has the same
potential as South Korea.
But the conditions don't exist
today for that to be possible.
And the reason why is
because of the government.
So instead, 24
million North Koreans
today live in one of the
most closed and repressive
countries.
And they face this
repressive government
that prioritizes absolute
political control and regime
sustainability at the cost
of completely stifling
the North Korean
people's potential.
So a lot of times
people will ask,
how is it that the North
Korean government has
been able to maintain such
tight control over such
a long period of time?
The North Korean
government, more
than any other
authoritarian government
throughout world
history, has been
most successful in being
able to maintain control
for such a long period of
time because of the fact
that they place such a
high priority and emphasis
on controlling the informational
and ideational environment
inside of that country
as a key strategy
in order to control
the way people behave
and what they think.
This is how they try
to control society.
And so as you can see,
and as many of you
may already be aware,
the North Korean people--
in terms of their information
environment, North Korea
is the most closed in the world.
The government maintains control
by maintaining a monopoly
as a single source of
information and ideas
inside of that country.
So, for example, all
television and radio sets
are set to receive only
government broadcasts.
There is no internet access
inside of that country,
with the exception of
a few select elite.
And-- sorry.
Phones inside of North
Korea, North Korean phones,
cannot call internationally.
They cannot make call
outside of that country.
And so these are some of
the ways in which the North
Korean government has
placed such a high priority
on controlling the
information environment
and keeping the North
Korean people intentionally
closed off from
the outside world.
But on top of that, the
North Korean government
also pumps an inordinate amount
of propaganda and ideology,
from a very young age, into
the North Korean people,
in a form of extreme
indoctrination.
And so because of this, this is
how the North Korean government
has been able to control North
Korean society for so long.
In addition, there is
a zero tolerance policy
for any form of
political dissent.
And this is enforced through
a network of political prison
camps inside North Korea.
These camps are very
reminiscent of the Soviet gulags
in the Nazi concentration camps.
The conditions are
absolutely horrific.
About two years
ago, in 2014, the UN
published a report after
a year long investigation
into allegations of
crimes against humanity
that were being
committed in that country
by the government
against its own people.
So what the report found
was that the gravity scale
and nature of these
human rights violations
reveals a state that does
not have any parallel
in the contemporary world.
Crimes against
humanity in North Korea
entail extermination,
murder, enslavement, torture,
imprisonment, rape,
forced abortions
and other sexual
violence, persecution
on political religious,
racial and gender grounds,
the forcible transfer
of populations,
the enforced
disappearance of persons,
and the inhumane act
of knowingly causing
prolonged starvation.
So this sets the stage for
the type of environment
that the everyday North
Korean people face inside
of the country.
This gives us a glimpse at
the amount of repression
that the North
Korean people face.
But despite this, what
we do have hope in
is the fact that despite
these tremendous challenges
that the North
Korean people face,
it makes the situation
seem impossible,
but many changes have
actually been happening
over the last two decades
that point to social changes
and trends that
can give us hope.
That there is in fact
change happening,
and it's coming from
a grassroots level,
and it's being driven by
the North Korean people.
But in order to understand
how these changes came about,
we have to go back to a very
tragic time in North Korea's
history in the '90s, when
North Korea experienced
a severe famine-- one of the
worst of the 20th century--
where it's estimated that up to
a million North Koreans starved
to death in that country.
One of those people
being Joseph's father,
and you'll hear more
about his story today.
But out of this tragedy
emerged an opportunity.
And what you saw
was the emergence
of grassroots markets.
People decided, as a
survival mechanism,
to take matters into
their own hands.
And they were able to go
out and to begin to trade
and to get the
goods and the things
that they needed for
themselves and for others
that the government could no
longer provide for themselves--
that the government could
no longer provide for them,
or that they wouldn't
provide for them.
So what we saw
happening was actually,
with this grassroots
marketization
and the proliferation
of these markets,
was actually North Korean
people taking matters
into their own hands.
And before the 1990s, before
this famine, what you saw
was that the state was central
to the North Korean people.
It provided everything to
the people-- information,
technology, food, ideology.
And then what happened was
this shift after the '90s,
after the proliferation
of these markets,
and people being empowered
through these markets instead
to be able to then access the
things that they needed apart
from the state.
The shift is very significant.
Because these markets
became a catalyst
for North Korean
people, actually,
in order to now utilize
the markets as also
a grounds for which they
could then exchange ideas,
and information, and even
technologies that were actually
helping to accelerate
the erosion of ideology
of the state.
So the markets are
very important-- are
very important in terms
of some of these changes
in social trends that we see
emerging over the last two
decades.
So some of these major trends
that we recognize are here.
The loss of control of
the economy and the rise
of capitalism.
North Korea today is
essentially a market economy.
Many people are
not aware of that.
The second is the weakening
of North Korea's information
blockade and the introduction of
unofficial foreign information.
Again, the markets
became a place
where foreign information
and illegal foreign media
were coming in through devices
and through technologies
like USBs and DVDs that
people were smuggling,
and brokers are smuggling in
and that are being traded,
and are being viewed and
shared across the country.
The third is
widespread corruption.
And this corruption
is important,
because it enables all of
these things to happen.
Fourth is the emergence of human
networks outside of government
controlled space and
normalized shared disobedience.
And this is very
important, also,
because there is
no civil society
in North Korea--
intentionally, as a way
in which the government has
set up the system within.
But as a result
of the markets, it
gave an opportunity,
a platform, for people
to be able to connect
with each other
and to develop bonds of trust.
And this is also very important.
Fifth is the rise of the
Jangmadang generation.
This is the equivalent of
North Korean millennials.
And they are a
whole new generation
of young people in
this country that
have a very different
relationship
with the government and the
state than their parents'
generation.
Because they grew up in
a time where they never
relied on the state and never
received anything from them.
And the last is the
impact of defectors
who have resettled
in South Korea
but maintain contact with
their home communities.
So since I don't
have time to expound
on all of these,
what I want to do
is actually talk primarily
about number six,
the impact of defectors.
Because this is the
key area of work
that our organization does.
So as a result of many of these
challenges that North Korean
people face, in addition
to the famine that
happened in the '90s,
we began to really see
a flow of North Koreans
leaving that country in the mid
to late '90s.
And they've continued
to come out since then.
This here outlines the path
that North Korean refugees
will take in their escape.
And you'll see it's a little bit
crazy, because right below them
is South Korea, their
final destination-- most
of their final destinations.
But because of the DMZ, one
of the most heavily fortified
borders in the
world, they're not
able to cross
through that border.
So instead, they escape
into neighboring China
and then try to
make their way out
through this sort of modern
day Underground Railroad,
which is about 3,500
miles long and takes them
from the border there
of China and North Korea
all the way to Southeast Asia.
That's longer than the
distance of New York and LA.
And so this is the
underground route
that many North
Koreans have taken.
In fact, tens of
thousands of them
have taken over the
last decade and a half.
And so what we see
here, actually,
is that once they
get into China,
this is not an easy route.
This is not an easy journey.
The Chinese government
does not recognize
North Koreans as refugees.
Instead, they claim that
they are economic migrants
and that they have
the right to be
able to find them, arrest
them, and forcibly send them
back to North Korea.
And if North Koreans
have illegally
left that country, as
almost all of these refugees
have, and they are forcibly
sent back, many of them
could face severe punishment
upon being sent back
into North Korea.
And so the situation for them
in China is extremely dangerous.
And this is really where
organizations like ours,
other missionaries,
NGOs, and even
brokers in the underground,
are able to step in
and to help North Koreans
who are there, who are
at high risk of exploitation.
You know, at the peak of
when refugees were leaving
that country in the
early 2000s, you
saw thousands leaving every year
and making it to South Korea.
At that time, it was
estimated that 70% to 80%
of female North Korean refugees
were being trafficked or sold
because of how at risk they
were, at risk of exploitation.
They had no rights.
They had no one to protect
them in that country.
Today, the paths in which
people are coming through
have become a lot
more established.
There are more organizations,
and there are groups,
and there are family members
who have already made it
out that are able to facilitate
for their way to come out
quicker, sooner faster, safer.
And there are also more
people, like you guys,
that are supporting those
efforts on the backend in order
to help more people to make it
out safely and more quickly.
So one of the most
important reasons
why we work with
North Korean refugees
is not only because of the
humanitarian imperative
and the opportunity that
we have to help them,
but also because of the fact
that North Korean refugees are
playing one of the most
important roles on this issue.
And it's a unique role that only
they can play, that none of us
can play.
And that's because, of the
30,000 North Koreans that
have resettled in
South Korea today,
it's estimated that
more than 50% of them
have been able to reestablish
contact with their family
members inside of that country.
And they do so through
illicit Chinese cell
phones that have been
smuggled into the border.
And it's through
that that they're
able to communicate with
their family members,
sharing and sending information
in and out of that country
through these relationships.
But secondary is also
the flow of money.
This community of
North Korean defectors
sends, on average, anywhere
from about $15 million a year--
$15 million a year
back into that country
to their family members.
And that money is crucial in
accelerating these changes
that we believe are
happening-- that we
know are happening, these
very important social changes.
It's accelerating this
grassroots marketization.
It's providing for
their family members
to enable them to buy the goods
and the things that they need.
And it's also enabling
their families
to invest in their
own market activities
to protect themselves.
It's increasing their
family's ability
for more human security.
And this map here, the
hot spots of change,
are areas where
we believe change
is happening at a faster rate.
And a large part of that
being because of the fact
that these are key areas where
defectors have come from,
and where money and
information is flowing back
into that country.
So we have an
opportunity to work
with more North Korean
defectors and refugees,
helping them not
only in their escape,
but empowering them
in their resettlement.
The more successful
they can become,
the more opportunities
that they have in order
to be agents of
change on this issue.
And we truly believe
that North Korea
is one of the most difficult
challenges facing humanity
today, but that the
North Korean people
are the best solution for that.
And, you know, I think one of
the opportunities we have here
today is to listen to
the story of Joseph Kim.
And it's such an honor to have
him here to share his story.
If you're not familiar
with his story,
I think you'll be very touched.
And I've had a chance to
know Joseph since 2007,
when he first arrived
here in the United States
as a refugee-- as a URM, a
non-accompanied refugee minor.
And it was really
through meeting
Joseph that really brought me
even further into this issue.
Because as you hear
Joseph speak you'll
get to know that, despite
the incredible challenges
that he has overcome, and
despite the tremendous things
that he's had to witness
and do in order to survive,
in order to make it to
this point in his life,
he is one of the most tenacious,
incredible, gentle and kind
people that you will ever meet.
And so it's my
honor and privilege
to introduce you guys to Joseph
Kim, who's here with us here,
to share his story.
[APPLAUSE]
I made you nervous now, huh?
[LAUGHS]
JOSEPH KIM: Yes, very nervous.
Thank you for the kind words.
HANNAH SONG: Joseph's
like a brother to me,
so he knows that my goal here
was to try to embarrass him
a little bit.
JOSEPH KIM: You succeed.
HANNAH SONG: Very good.
Very good.
So what I wanted
to do was actually
start off with a few questions.
Just because I'm sure there are
questions that all of you have,
so that Joseph can
share his story.
And then we'll make
sure that we have
some time at the end to open
it up for some Q&A, as well.
So to start off, Joseph,
can you share a little bit
about your life in North Korea?
JOSEPH KIM: Sure.
I've been asked for the same
question for so many times,
but every single
time I struggle.
I find it challenging
to answer it.
Because I think mainly there
was so many things happened,
and I don't know where to begin.
But before I first say anything
about my life in North Korea,
I also wanted to say that,
even though it's probably
one of the darkest
places in the word,
it is still a place-- well,
it's so close to my heart,
because it's a place
where I first experienced
or taste what happiness was.
I remember-- I was
the youngest child
and the only son in the family,
and my mom was always sick.
So she didn't have much energy
to play with me during the day.
And my sister, who was
seven years older than me,
so she was always in school by
the time I was five years old.
And my father was working during
the day, so I was always alone.
Sometimes I was hanging
out with my friends
near in my neighborhood.
But I remember the happiest
moment for me, I think,
was whenever I went out on the
street waiting for my sister
to come back.
And I mean, I was very young.
I didn't know what direction
she was going to come from.
But I do remember what
she wear in the morning
before she went to school.
It was the school uniform with
white shirts with a blue skirt.
So there I was, five years old.
I was sitting on the street
just waiting for her.
And whenever I saw people
who were approaching
with that same
color of uniforms,
I always was excited that
that would be my sister.
And sometimes I
got disappointed,
because it was not my sister.
But my sister eventually
came, and I just
remember the moments that I was
so excited to play with her.
And she was probably one of the
nicest and kind-- the most kind
sister I have ever can ask for.
And she would always
read me stories that she
read or learned in class.
And I always loved being with
her and playing with her.
And she was just like
another mother to me.
So that was like my
earliest childhood memory,
of being loved.
And my father, of
course, he would always
pick me up first when
he came back from work.
And he would sometimes take
me to an ice cream store
nearby my house and buy me ice
creams along with some cookies.
And those are my earliest
childhood memories,
which I think I appreciate.
I'm grateful to
have it, because--
But the great
famine began later.
And that totally changed my
life as tired [INAUDIBLE]
for my entire family.
I started notice that grownups
are whispering, or talking
about a grandfather nearby my
neighborhood died of hunger.
And at the time, I
didn't know what that
was, what that really meant.
But I think, even as a
child, you could kind of
read the worrisome, or the
anxieties, from your parents.
I think those are
noticeable, even for a child.
And I didn't know
what it was, but I
knew things were not
as great as before.
And of course my family also
was affected by the famine.
When I was 12 years old, my
father also died of starvation.
It was my first time
ever witnessing someone
dying away in front
of me, especially
someone who was so close to me.
In the same year,
my mom and my sister
decided to go to
China to look for food
and possibly earn some
money to come back.
My sister and I had never
been-- lived separately.
And I always thought that
she would be by my side
all the time.
And she-- before she
was leaving to China,
she had promised me that
she would-- she would not
make me wait for too long, and
she would come back shortly
afterward.
And that was the last
time I saw my sister.
In China, what happened was that
my mom didn't have much choice.
But she had to let my sister go.
What I mean by
this is that my mom
had to send my sister
to a Chinese man
so that at least that
she could be saved.
She could-- and I
think she thought
that that would be a better
life for her than going back
to North Korea, where,
if she was caught,
then she could face
severe punishment.
And I think, as
a mother, I think
that was probably the--
it was the only option she
had, but also was the
best option for her.
And, of course,
my mother did not
know about the sex
trafficking industries.
She didn't aware of it.
And I don't know, even to
this day, where my sister is.
But my mom came back.
And, you know, it was her
decision to at least save me
from another starvation.
And my mom came back
to explain to me why
that my sister wasn't with her.
I mean, I was very young.
It was very hard to process.
I think-- for that reason,
I think, for a long time,
I had a love and hate
relationship with my mom.
But now that I
have become adult,
I think I can at least
understand a little bit.
And my mother,
[INAUDIBLE] later, she
was trying to go back to
China to look for my sister,
but she was caught
in North Korea.
And as a result, she
was put-- she was
sent a jail, or prison camp.
And that was also my
last time I saw my mom.
And that left me as a homeless,
an orphan on the street.
It was-- I always had seen
homeless kids, children,
begging on the
street, but I never
thought that would be-- one
day I would become one of them.
And I think one of
the hardest part
was learn how to give up
my pride and personality,
and be able to ask for
leftover soup from strangers.
But I had to do
it, and I did it,
because I noticed
that kids who were not
being able to ask, or find that
courage to ask for leftover
food, they were
slowly dying away.
And I was scared.
And I realized that others
would face similar destiny
if I don't speak up.
I also used to work
in a coal mine.
I remember the
grownups were-- they
were having
difficult lives, too,
but I think they were so sad
for me, or at least sympathized.
They were just-- I think they
were trying to find the easiest
job a 14-year-old kid can.
So that was how I lived.
And now I ask myself,
or in retrospect, I
think one of the reasons why
I was able to keep up and keep
fighting was that I had
never given up on the hope
that I would be able
to see my sister again.
And I, every night before
I went to bed-- by bed,
I mean like find a
place under the bridge--
with an empty stomach,
I always dreamed
or hoped that my sister would
come back the next morning.
And I think that kind of hope
gave me strength to survive.
So that basically sums up
how-- what was it like.
HANNAH SONG: So you
experienced a lot
of very difficult-- very
difficult things at such
a young age.
And you made the decision to
go to China when you were 15.
Is that right?
So can you explain a
little bit about why
you decided to finally
leave North Korea,
and you know how dangerous
it is to leave North Korea.
JOSEPH KIM: So there
is a list at the time.
In 2006, there were
two different ways
to escape North Korea.
One where you bribe the
soldiers, or the river
guards, and you go to China.
But of course that price-- the
cost of that amount of money
that you have to
give to soldiers is--
it's a lot of money
that I didn't have.
And if I had that
much of money, I
would not even-- I would not
take the risk of escaping.
The reason why I decided
to take that risk,
even though I knew
how dangerous it
was, I had to make
that decision,
because it was my
last try to survive.
And I lived as a homeless
for over three years,
and I just did not see
any hope to survive.
And I knew that, if I do stay,
I would eventually also-- I
didn't know what my future
was and was going to be.
And I thought it was about time.
I mean, I didn't
have much choice.
It was either I would
sit down and wait
until I die of
starvations, or at least
take that risk to go to
China to look for my sister.
So I decided to
leave North Korea.
And I didn't have
money to bribe,
so I just tried out of nowhere.
And very fortunately,
I made it to China.
And I was able to escape
North Korea successfully.
And I think, going into
China, my expectation
was to find the man
who had sold my sister,
or brokered, or made the
transaction between my mom
and the Chinese man.
So I was hoping to find him.
But I realized that by the
time I went to his house,
he passed away just about
one days before my arrival.
And I didn't know what to
do, because my plan was not
to live in China.
My plan was to look for my
sister, and find some money,
and go back to North Korea.
I don't know, I can't
explain why, I was always--
I thought that way.
But I always thought that I
had to live in North Korea.
I'd never thought of
living somewhere else.
And that's why I also didn't
bring any family pictures.
Because my initial plan
was to meet my sister
and go back to North Korea.
But of course, I
couldn't find my sister.
And I think-- in
Korean, there is a term
that, when you are so hopeless
the sky turns to-- turns
into yellow color.
I know it doesn't make sense.
But I think, for me, I
didn't even have the strength
to look up sky.
Because I, certainly,
did not plan after.
I did not think
that I-- what to do.
I didn't know what to do.
And I think it was just probably
one of the most difficult time
that-- in my life, I think.
HANNAH SONG: Can you
talk a little bit, then,
about why you stayed
in China then,
and what life was like in China?
I mean, essentially, you
didn't go back to North Korea.
You ended up here in the US.
So how did you
find your way here?
JOSEPH KIM: My first two weeks,
it was during the wintertime.
And I went house to
house, door to door,
for leftover food in
the mornings and nights.
And during the
days, I would sleep
in the mountains
or abandonded house
in the rural areas in China.
The reason why I kept
staying was that at least I
could find some food.
And if I go back to
North Korea, first, there
is a huge possibility
that I would be caught.
And secondly, even
if I don't get caught
and I sneak back
into North Korea,
there were no promising
futures or options that I had.
And later on that I learned that
Christian churches, when I go,
they give some helps.
In the first church
I went, they give me
some food and clothing,
along with $2o-- no,
no 20 yen in Chinese.
And I thought that-- at
the time, I was like,
oh, maybe if I go
to 10 churches,
I will have 200 yen, which
is probably equivalent
to less than $30 US.
But it was big enough.
It was enough money for me
to at least go back to China
and have some-- I
would not-- at least
I would live multiple
months without working.
But of course, it turned
out that not every churches
give $20, I mean, 20 yen.
So that plan totally crashed.
And later on, I found-- a church
in China offered me to stay,
live there.
And while I was living
there, the church people
were looking for sponsors
who would potentially
take me to their home and
give me a shelter and food.
I think one of the conditions
to be-- to go with a sponsor
that I met in China
was to change my name.
I was asked change
my name as Joseph.
And only if I do then I would
be sponsored, I would be helped.
I thought about
it, at the moment.
It was very difficult,
and it was very emotional.
Because growing
up in North Korea,
especially up till
I became homeless,
I pretty much gave
up everything that I
had-- human dignity,
personal pride, personality,
that didn't matter.
My concern, day to day, was
to find for the next meal.
But only one thing that kept me,
or remind me, that I was still
a person, I was still a human
being, was that the name
that I got it from my father.
And that was the only thing
that my father had left me.
And that was the only
thing that I had been
able to protect or preserve.
So momentarily, I
asked myself, do
I really have to even
give up my name too,
so that I could survive?
Just get some food
and place to sleep?
I thought about it.
But then, as a 16-year-old kids,
I mean, what choice did I have?
There was not much I could do.
I could either go back
to North Korea, facing so
many uncertainties, or-- yeah.
So I decided, for the moment
being, let me-- let's leave.
Let's try to live this life
and see where it takes.
So I decided to change,
accept the conditions.
And you might be
wondering why did I keep
my name as Joseph in America.
The reason why I kept
my name as Joseph
is that it turned out to be that
the sponsor who had taken me
to their house was one of the
really-- one of the most kind
person, who genuinely
wanted to help me.
And I thought that one
way to honor her sacrifice
was to keep my name as Joseph.
And that's how I kept
my name as Joseph.
HANNAH SONG: So
because of time, I'm
going to just fast
forward a little bit here.
North Korea-- the way that
Joseph came out, actually,
in 2006, it was, is a
little bit different
than the way in which
I had described here.
Because he had come
out-- in early 2000s,
a lot of North Koreans
that were in China
were trying to go in
through various embassies
and consulates in
China, in order
to try to leave the
country that way.
But that way became virtually
impossible later on,
which is why more
North Koreans began
to come out of the underground--
sort of Underground Railroad.
But Joseph was an
individual who was
able to go in through a
consulate, actually, in China.
And after spending some
time in the underground
with this incredible grandmother
that took care of him,
he was connected to
our network, and we
were able to help him to
get into this consulate.
And that's how he was able to
get to the US-- come to the US
as a refugee.
So coming to the
United States, I
guess one of the
last questions--
because I want to make sure
we have some time for people
to ask questions, too.
So I guess one of
the last questions
that I'll ask you is, coming
to the US is so different.
You know, this is
such a different place
than North Korea.
When you first came to America,
what was it like for you?
I mean, what was something that
was difficult, funny, strange,
unusual for you in
coming here and learning
about American culture?
JOSEPH KIM: I think it was
another challenge in a sense
that I only-- I
knew how to survive,
or I knew how to
find food, but I
didn't know how to find of--
or learn about myself, I think.
So that was one of the
challenging things.
I think I-- everyone
told me that I
have the complete freedom to
do whatever I wanted to do,
but I really didn't know what
I wanted to do with my life.
I think finding identity
and purpose for my life
was probably-- it
was really difficult.
But I think one
of the strangest,
or the funniest thing
was that-- you know,
when I was waiting in
American consulate in China,
I decided to study some English
words with a Korean-English
Dictionary.
And I remember learning
a word the "subway."
And subway [INAUDIBLE]
means in Korean dictionary,
or definition of subway,
is the train stations
we have in New York City.
And I thought I knew what
they were, looked like.
So I ended up going
to Richmond, Virginia.
That's where my
foster family was.
And I remember my first time
going to a Subway sandwich
shop.
And I was thinking that--
I know this might be really
stupid, for it's a true story.
I went in, and I was
thinking, like, there
is so many ways to connect
the underground, the trains.
And I was like, I couldn't
find a [INAUDIBLE]
or a possible entrance
to the ground.
[LAUGHTER]
Yeah, I think-- I
was so confused.
And I just didn't
know what like--
and I think that was
very confusing moment.
Because I was like, I guess
America is so developed
that there is
invisible sort of ways
to connect each Subway shops.
That was probably one of the--
[LAUGHTER]
HANNAH SONG: Cool.
Thanks for sharing
that story [INAUDIBLE].
JOSEPH KIM: So stupid.
HANNAH SONG: No!
You know what, I think there's
a lot of stories like that,
even when-- like some of
our North Korean friends
go to South Korea, and
the first time they
go into Starbucks
they're so confused,
because they have no idea what
like Americano or cappuccino--
these are all foreign words.
And so I think it's a great
experience for you to have.
There's lots more
like that, so I'm
sure you guys can ask
Joseph more about some
of those experiences.
But I wanted to actually open
it up for some questions,
because I know that we only
have a little bit of time left.
And so if anyone has a
question-- OK, great.
AUDIENCE: Thanks for coming.
I think-- that was a very
kind of-- I don't [INAUDIBLE],
but very heartwarming and
kind of a somber story
that has a very good ending.
Sure.
But everything actually
seems like it worked out,
but I'm not sure
if like-- how is
the situation for
those who are still--
what is the majority situation?
Like maybe looking
at one, or a few,
and I'm feeling
very good about it.
That, hey, something
is taken care of.
But that's my thought.
I'm not sure if
that is a question.
My question is a little broader.
You're probably one of
the unique people who
have-- in the whole world,
who have been in North Korea
through China.
And now you have seen
the United States.
So in terms of that wide
difference that I'm seeing,
like completely dark.
I actually opened up
Google Maps and saw
where is North Korea, because
I didn't see in that map.
And then I realized,
oh, is that water?
Is that North Korea
in the middle?
So now I realize the
whole thing was black.
So what can-- what's the
majority situation now?
And another is, if
you think in terms
of the different
countries, what can they
learn from each other
about the human values
and what are-- what are the
things at the last can people
cling to and give them that
so that they don't completely
destroy themselves?
JOSEPH KIM: I will take
part of your answers.
I think that you raised a really
important questions, you know,
that my life has been changed,
and I'm in a good place,
but what about the others?
You know, this is actually
challenging for me, as well.
I think, for that
reason, I-- for example,
like I should be
the first person
to keep thinking about their
lives and sufferings every day.
But in reality, I
think I'm mostly
concerned with how to keep up
my grade GPA and how to pursue,
or what to pursue.
And I think, mostly,
I am concerned
with my personal
visions and dreams.
I think that's why I'm also
very interested in ethics
and philosophy.
But the reason why I
came out to this event,
and the reason why I
decided to do this,
is that basically I see that
it's a responsibility that I
have to share.
And I see having a freedom of
living here and the opportunity
to speak here, I
think-- I consider
this as one of my
responsibilities,
to tell people.
And while-- just because I had
a difficult past experience
does not necessarily mean
that I have a license
to ask you or pressure you
to make certain contributions
for the cause.
I think what I can help is
that, if you are motivated
to involved, and if you are--
but if you're not uncertain
whether your time and
resource is worth it, that I
think I can help with.
I can assure that
it is worth it.
Worth it, in a sense, not
for directly for your life.
The next morning
you wake up, you
will still have difficult
times waking up, go out of bed
and come to work, even if
you contribute to the cause.
But whatever you
decided to help,
I can say that someone else
life-- some other North Korean,
another Joseph's life, can be
changed, where he or she could
come-- go to South
Korea or come to America
and be able to experience the
type of life that we have.
And I think that I can answer.
And yeah.
So I think one way is
just really remember them.
And that's where the
actions can be started.
AUDIENCE: Joseph, thank
you very much for sharing
your story with us.
As you shared that, as
you moved to America,
you kind of rethought
about yourself,
about the values that you
have, the dreams that you have.
Somehow you
mentioned part of it.
Could you share
some of your dreams
that you have as result
from these reflections?
JOSEPH KIM: Yes.
I think the problem
with me is that I'm
interested in so many things.
I find myself spending nights
on learning how to hack Wi-Fi.
I don't know why.
I thought it was
very interesting.
Basically, I would just follow
what 17-year-old kids tell
me what to do, [INAUDIBLE].
I find myself spending time,
for days and hours and hours.
I also find politics and
philosophy very interesting.
And I think-- I've been
taking philosophy classes.
I really enjoyed it,
but it was very--
it was also a lot of work.
And I also took an
international relations class.
And I think it was
also interesting,
but also it was something
that I get it quickly.
So my goal is to learn, focus
my time in where I can do well
and where I can-- where I find
myself doing-- enjoy doing it.
So my dream is one day--
and philosophy, on the side,
I think I wanted to do it
[INAUDIBLE] on my [INAUDIBLE].
And with that knowledge,
I hope that, one day, when
North Korea opens, I
hope to go back and teach
the philosophies, hopefully,
or especially ethics,
I'm most interested in.
So those are my dreams.
And for now-- recently
I heard someone
saying that the reason why--
the purpose of studying
is to find out what you
didn't know, or how much you
didn't know.
Now I think about it, it's
very obvious statement.
But I think it has also
very profound meaning.
Because knowing what
you didn't know,
or how much you didn't
know, is one way
to find my identity and myself.
And I believe that-- I greatly
enjoy studying, for now.
So that would be my
dream, continues studying.
And hopefully, one day,
I can go back and teach
philosophy ethics, I hope.
AUDIENCE: Thank you.
HANNAH SONG: I think this
will be the last question.
AUDIENCE: Actually,
I have two questions.
One, I think it's
more for Hannah.
So I'm really curious about once
the North Koreans escape out
of the country and either
they decide to stay in China
or move to other countries.
What is their status?
Like nationality?
I mean, nationality is
definitely North Korean.
But what kind of
citizenship do they have?
And I think South Korea has
a way to support citizenship
for North Koreans.
But do other countries
have other support?
And second question is, I'm
also-- I'm actually from Korea.
And I say, I'm Korean--
I'm from Korea.
And everybody say,
South or North?
So I can assume
that many people are
going to be surprised
if you say--
it's for Joseph,
sorry-- when you
say you're from
North Korea, they
will have a lot of questions.
And they will have
like reaction to you.
I wonder-- I'm curious to
know what kind of reaction
you get when you tell people
that you're from North Korea.
JOSEPH KIM: So I personally
have not been to South Korea,
so I don't know what
the reaction would
be if I was in South Korea.
But I think in America, whenever
I meet South Korean friends
or people from South
Korea, they are very open.
They're very curious
about lot of things.
But there is--
there was one time
that I was in South Africa
for another conference.
It was called [INAUDIBLE].
And basically, 192
countries send young leaders
from each nations.
And during the time we were
waiting for the opening
ceremony, in front
of me, there was
a delegate from South Korea--
one man and one women.
They asked me,
where are you from?
And I said, I'm
from North Korea.
And they were like, no way.
They're like, well,
how can you be here?
And then we talked a
little bit, but then I
think the conversation
just dropped,
because we didn't really know
what to talk about afterward.
But I think we started-- instead
of talking about politics,
or talking complicated matters,
we started asking like, oh,
how long did your
flight take you to here,
or what was it like?
And we started talking about
very basic conversations.
And during the four days of our
conference, we became so close.
We would share meals
and eat meals together.
And I think that was the
closest experience that I have,
or the reactionary that I--
so from South Korean people.
And in terms of status, I'm
sorry, I kind of lost track.
HANNAH SONG: I'll answer that.
So the status, then, for
North Koreans in China
is they're illegally there.
So the Chinese
government, because they
don't recognize them, refuses
to acknowledge them as refugees.
But they are technically
under the UN definition
of refugee surplus, meaning
they qualify as a refugee
because of the
circumstances they
would face once they've
left their country.
Meaning because of the
risk they would be at
if they were to be repatriated.
And so they do qualify
under that definition.
And so the
international community
recognizes them as refugees
once they've left North Korea.
The Chinese government does not.
And so that's one
of the reasons why
NGOs like ours have to
play this role in-between.
Because governments are very
limited in terms of what
they can actually do to help
North Korean refugees in China.
As are agencies like
the UNHCR, in fact.
You know, they're
very limited in terms
of how they can actually
help North Koreans.
And that's one of the main
reasons why we bring them out
through to Southeast Asia.
And in Southeast Asia,
there are countries there
where they are
recognized, or where
they do have an
opportunity, then,
to apply for refugee
status or for resettlement
in countries like South
Korea and the United States.
South Korea will
essentially, you know,
see them as South
Korean citizens.
And so they do receive that
citizenship pretty quickly
upon resettling.
Coming to the US, for
example, or other countries,
they come as refugees
and then have
to undergo the process
of getting a green card
and then can apply for
citizenship, as well.
One quick point on kind of what
you had mentioned before, too.
And being from South Korea,
you're probably also aware.
But when North Koreans
go to South Korea,
and people find out
they're from North Korea,
you know, sometimes
it's not warmly
received in South
Korean society.
And it's one of the
biggest challenges
that a lot of North
Koreans do face there,
because of this type of
discrimination they can face.
But I think a lot of it really
just comes from a challenge
with the narrative in
South Korea on North Korea.
And I think that's a real
opportunity, in terms
of us trying to figure out a
new narrative, a new framework,
to help young South Koreans
understand this issue, as well.
And so one of the
really sad things
is some of the North Koreans
we work with in South Korea
actually, when they
ask where they're from,
will lie and say that they're
from-- they're ethnically
Chinese Korean,
[INAUDIBLE], or will
say that they are just
from the South, that's
why they have a strange accent.
Because they want to hide the
fact, many times, that they're
from the North.
And so our hope is, with the
work we do in South Korea--
and if there's any Googlers
in South Korea that
want to be involved,
working on trying
to change the narrative
around this issue,
especially in South
Korea, it's going
to be really vital
in the coming years.
AUDIENCE: Thanks.
HANNAH SONG: So I think
we've run out of time.
The last thing I wanted to
just end on-- and I guess we
don't have the slide.
I don't know if it's
possible to find it,
but we wanted to
just give people
a chance to get involved
if you're interested.
And Alyssa mentioned that
you guys will be starting
a group here within Google.
And if you're
interested, I encourage
you to please check it out.
There are opportunities
that we're
hoping to work closely with
the group here within Google.
One obvious way to get
involved is obviously to give.
You can give your money,
which we will happily take.
You can give your
travel credits, which
we will also happily take.
You can give your time, if you
want to be a part of this group
volunteering.
We need all sorts of help.
And sometimes it's
even with just
optimizing our own online
campaigns and things like that,
as well.
And so those are some easy
ways that you can get involved.
If you have the means,
and are interested,
you can actually donate
to rescue one refugee.
And that information
is all on our website,
and also on those boards
in the back there.
And the last thing, obviously
you can just follow us,
keep in touch with
what we're doing.
And if something comes up
that you're interested in,
please feel free to get
involved, reach out to us.
We'd love to have you be a
part of what we're doing.
So, you know, I wanted
to really, really thank
Alyssa, and also Gloria, for
organizing such a great event.
Thank you guys all so much
for being here today with us.
And especially a huge
thanks so much to Joseph
for sharing his story with us.
[APPLAUSE]
