The-Dream: Everybody has that genius thing
about them, the fortunate thing is whether
you can talk your crazy self into believing
it or not.
How’s everybody doing tonight?
Thank y’all for being here.
Rob Markman: Us as fans I think it's kind
of our job to be fanatical over this music.
We are at Genius and no pun intended but dude,
we recognize you as a genius.
Not just this company but these fans, everybody
in the room right?
This question may be hard for you, but when
did you first recognize the genius within
yourself or do you even recognize the genius
within yourself?
The-Dream: Wow, I don't really recall.
My grandfather sold this, we had a piano,
it was of course horrible.
It was out of tune, it just sat there in the
living room.
I found out that I really loved music when
my grandfather sold that piano.
I think I was six years old.
Rob: What type of music was being played in
your house?
The-Dream: Otis Redding was being played a
lot, Sam Cooke was being played a lot, Michael
of course.
It was a combination of what my mother grew
up listening to and then that's what I listen
to based on what she liked.
Prince was kind of the older person's, you
know she couldn't play that around me.
I'm sure she was an avid Prince fan but I
didn't learn about “Nikki” until a bit
later.
Rob: I think most of us could share similar
experiences like we grew up in the household
and probably the first music that we're fans
of is the music that our parents, that our
grandparents, our older brothers and sisters
are playing around the house.
I think for most of us, it stays there.
We stay in that fan stage but for you something
clicked and you said, this is what I want
to do with my life.
What led you to that?
The-Dream: I completely seen all the stars
growing up as human beings and I think that
was the first thing.
The first person that I made human to me was
Michael Jackson.
If I would have ever seen him, I knew in my
heart that I would treat him with a person
that has these talents.
You can't control where your gifts come from,
you can only do something about them or go
through life and try to make sure that you
leave an impression on this world with what
you have on the inside.
Whoever was singing or writing, I felt like
I wanted to be amongst them.
I didn't want to look up or appear to them
like I wanted to be exactly in line with those
people and I still see things that same way
today.
Rob: At what does this click?
At what age are you like, oh man, I want to
walk amongst the stars, so to speak?
The-Dream: It's funny how life works, it works
differently for everybody.
There was one event when my mom passed when
I was 15 that kind of changes your idea about
human beings and just living, period and what
you can touch and what you can't.
Sometimes reality isn't reality for so long
because we don't lose somebody that's that
close to us, which I'm starting to figure
out now that that part kind of changed, it
made me put everybody into perspective in
a different way.
I'm never going to get her back the same way
we can never get Michael back.
These are people.
We have gifts and we have talents but we can't
hold each other above anybody else.
I'm no more genius than somebody in this room
is with technology.
Everybody has that genius thing about them.
The fortunate thing is, whether you can talk
your crazy self into believing it or not.
Rob: Y'all hear that?
Y'all finna talk up some game tonight, I'm
telling you.
I know we're up here celebrating this man
and his genius talent but I think you're right,
there's this theory that we all have genius
talent and it's just figuring out how to unlock
it and get there.
The-Dream: Yes sir.
Rob: That’s amazing.
I want to fast forward a bit, if I'm not mistaken,
your first official writing credit came maybe
in 2002 with a group named B2K.
A song called, “Everything.”
Y’all remember this song “Everything”?
You know it’s funny listening to that now.
Because back then we didn't really know The-Dream
and kind of style and going back and listening
to it, I was like oh wow, I can hear it.
I can hear the style.
The-Dream: It takes a while to bake a cake
the right way.
Rob Markman: That was a delicious cake, my
brother.
I heard you make a mean peach cobbler too.
The-Dream: I actually do.
Rob: How do you get to B2K?
The-Dream: Oh wow.
This was a record done with Laney Stewart,
which is Tricky Stewart's brother.
That camp red zone at the time was one of
amongst a lot of camps in Atlanta.
Atlanta is like the new Motown.
Tricky had already did “Uh-Huh” on the
previous album for them so they came through
and at the time I was signed to Laney Stewart's
publishing company.
That was my first publishing deal.
That song, literally, I don't what would've
happened actually if I didn't actually write
that song.
It was literally one of those, I'm going to
probably be on the curb if I don't write it.
Rob Markman: It was one of these divine situations
that comes to you at the right time.
The-Dream: Four weeks before that I'd quit
my job.
Rob Markman: Where were you working?
The-Dream: I was working at some collection
agency, I was really bad at it.
It was really bad.
Rob Markman: Sallie Mae?
It wasn't Sallie Mae.
The-Dream: No, that's too good.
It was worse than that.
I remember just calling and they say, I don't
have it.
I'm like, alright, cool.
Rob Markman: You a G for that, man.
The-Dream: Really bad.
It was really bad.
I had just started playing golf at that particular
time.
I stopped by the golf course like 7:30 in
the morning and I got on the first tee at
this golf course called Legacy and I sat there
and I called into my job and I quit because
I kind of figured that if I didn't put 100%
into music really, I was never going to actually
be great enough to stay in and so I quit my
job that day not knowing how I was going to
pay rent the next month.
At that time, I didn't have a publishing deal.
That song is actually what got me a publishing
deal.
Rob Markman: Awesome, man so you believed
in yourself.
The-Dream: Like I said, you've got to be crazy
enough to believe in yourself.
Rob Markman: You and Tricky went on to make
just magic.
The-Dream: Yeah, it was quite a run.
Most of that time though was being spent because
we only remember the highlights.
That whole time I learned the MPC and started
to produce my own records and started to work
on my own records.
At that time, building them from point A to
point Z because I didn't want to need anyone
or to need studio time or anything.
I invested the money that I had in myself
and just kind of kept churning and eventually
this style that you're talking about, I gave
birth to it in those times.
It was just done, the cake was done when I
got to 2007.
Rob Markman: Man, I got questions for you
all night man, but one of the great things
about Genius is that we really believe in
community and no one person knows everything.
For this event, we did a contest on Twitter
so Jael is here right now with our first contest
winner.
Jael: Alright so I’m here right now with
Arian.
He is a Dream super fan and Twitter contest
winner.
I hear you have a question for The-Dream that
you've been dying to ask.
What's your question?
Arian: Hey Dream, my question is: How old
were you when you wrote your first song and
do you remember what it was about?
The-Dream: Man, I think I seen your question,
I think I seen it on Twitter.
You sent it like 100 times?
Rob Markman: He really wanted to be here tonight,
man.
Give it up.
The-Dream: Man, that's a good question.
I don't remember the exact song.
Every time somebody asks me that question
though, I remember a feeling though.
The first time I felt something in myself
from a song was “Man In The Mirror” by
Michael.
That was the first.
I asked my mom, I need to get this tape.
You know, it was a tape at that point.
Like, let me get this tape with this on it
and I played that song back to back.
It has, of course, a billion hits on it but
that record is what I come back to and I don't
know why.
I know that's not the answer to your question
but I had to give you something.
Rob Markman: He saw your tweet so he had mad
long to prepare for this question.
The-Dream: Hater.
Rob Markman: It's funny though because we'll
see and we talked about this a little bit
before the interview, just these recurring
kind of themes.
It comes right back to Michael.
The-Dream: Yes.
Rob Markman: It leads us right back to Michael.
We have also a community on Genius online
who couldn't be here today.
They're the ones who put up the lyrics.
When everybody tweets us, like damn man, the
album just came out how did you get the lyrics
up so fast?
We have a community that transcribes the lyrics
from all across the world and they drop the
annotations.
They had a question too that Jael is going
to read right now.
Jael: Yes, the Genius community has a lot
of questions for you so get ready.
The first question is from community member
BigBabyGoat116.
He wonders … Who are some of the songwriters
of the past who have influenced your craft?
The-Dream: Definitely Lionel Richie, Diane
Warren, Otis Redding, Sam Cooke are all guys
that, and that's from me hearing them for
the first time and hearing those songs first.
Of course, when you get into the '90s, it's
kind of funny because it would be Pac and
Biggie and those lyricists of where I felt
wit was.
I think that's exactly what I actually became
was this '90s R&B kid but '90s R&B was still
based off of hip-hop and rap in a way.
Rob: I want to go to 2003 right now.
The-Dream: Oh man, come on man.
Rob Markman: Look, man.
You get to writing this song called “Me
Against the Music.”
The-Dream: Okay, here we go.
Rob Markman: A couple of artists, I don't
if you guys heard of Britney Spears and Madonna?
These are huge artists, this is big.
The-Dream: It was too big, too early.
Too big.
Rob Markman: What happened?
The-Dream: There was a better song on the
album, which was “Toxic,” which is an
awesome song.
Why would you put my song out before that.
Who were the A&Rs there at that time listening
to both of the songs and saying, let's do
this.
That song to kind of go back, this is the
first time when we was talking about the Tricky
thing when me and Trick was working.
He's playing this track, I remember hearing
it.
I knew about a meeting coming up with Britney
and Trick had his camp.
If he was here, I'd put him on the spot, I'm
going to leave him alone though.
He left one night and left this up on the
desktop and I stole it out of literally the
trash bin and went to the other studio across
the hall and just recorded it down with this,
All my people on the floor, let me see you
dance.
That was literally the chorus at that point,
not thinking that much of it.
To paint you a more broader picture, that
is I had a '92 Cadillac Sedan de Ville with
no AC in it.
It was really hot.
I had leather seats.
Rob Markman: Of course.
The-Dream: Did I say it was really hot?
I get a phone call driving down the expressway.
Trick calls me.
Yo, Britney is going to do your song.
It's going to be the first single.
I'm like, come on man, don't be fucking with
me right now.
It's hot.
I got leather seats.
And so, I was like, okay man, cool.
Because nothing in the music business is safe,
somebody will say you've got a single and
that shit goes away, like immediately.
I hang up my little cell phone.
I don't know, at that time of course, you
were paying money per minute so I hung that
shit up real quick.
Don't call back, maybe I'll believe him, maybe
not.
He's Tricky so you never know.
Of course I was excited that this thing was
happening for me.
However, I didn't have that much control over
what the end of the product would be and that
haunted me the whole time because with every
step, my song changed.
The verses changed, people put words here,
words there.
When you're new, you can't do shit about it.
It's like watching your baby just fall and
you're like, oh no, that's not the right verse.
Don't say that.
Why did my 20% go to 10%?
I have no idea.
I ended up with like 2.2% on the song.
Don't feel bad, it's all good.
Rob Markman: He made it up, I assure you.
The-Dream: The universe made it up to me.
But yeah, that song was too big of a jump
for me but it was a wonderful lesson to know
that I was connected to these songs like internally.
It wasn't a hustle.
I would rather do it for free and get the
song right and so to hear Toxic coming after
my song was me saying, that's all right, that's
how the song should sound, like that.
Whether I even do it right, maybe the song
would have been exactly what it would have
been but at least I would have been able to
see it through.
That's the most important thing that I take
with me every day now that a lot of these
songs I'm able to see from start to finish.
Rob: You know, it's dope.
Again, if you're following the story, the
recurring theme is being crazy enough to believe
in your dream.
By the time we get to about 2007, I'm imagining
you have more control, your vision is really
shining through now with a record called “Umbrella.”
The-Dream: Wow.
That record was done in the act of what I
would like, I would like to imagine Muhammad
Ali on the ropes and just taking it, just
taking a pounding.
Life was, I was out of my publishing deal.
You don't know when the stars are aligning.
It just depends on how much you can keep your
head up through it.
They could be aligning and you not know it,
which is most of the times.
I was checking pockets and stuff, maybe I
left an extra 20 over here to put some gas
in it.
Rob Markman: Did you still have the Cadillac
with the leather seats?
The-Dream: No, I had a Jaguar at the time.
Don't say aaah, they tried to repossess it
like nine times.
I hid that shit good every time.
Park down the street and walk to your apartment
and cover this up with some leaves.
It was just a weird space to say, write a
fuckin hit.
You know what a hit sounds like.
You know what songs you like from other people.
If you went to make a playlist, you knew what
the fuck a hit was and you know how to make
it, so just write a fuckin hit.
So I just told myself that.
That day, literally we're moving stuff around
in the studio.
Kuk Harrell who now is like side-by-side with
Rihanna and records a lot of her stuff for
her now finds this loop, this kick loop and
Trick starts to play this chord and I kind
of walk in at that same moment and I hear
it.
I heard about maybe eight bars of what Trick
was doing.
I said, man turn the mic on.
He's like, we're not ready, we just started
moving this shit around.
We've got to plug it up, we've got to get
it right.
Okay, cool.
Turn the mic on.
I turn the mic on.
I maybe had to go back and change four words
but I sung it from the top to the end, exactly
as is, how you hear the song today, right
now.
Rob Markman: You saw your vision too.
We've got a treat for you guys, Brooklyn.
We have that demo.
The-Dream: There it is.
Rob: We got the reference track.
Can we play a little bit of that?
Rob Markman: Seven weeks at number one?
The-Dream: Yeah, I think it was seven weeks.
I think it was 11 in Europe though.
Rob Markman: I know we're in America.
The-Dream: Always go with the bigger number,
man.
Rob Markman: You're absolutely right, my bad.
The-Dream: Come on, man.
The test of time is more important to me than
just being hot.
Rob Markman: I got you.
One of the other great things about this record
is how it set you up to be an artist.
I'm wondering if it was deliberate or if it
was just something that happened but just
the simple repetition, ella, ay, ay, ay.
We hear it, you know by the time we get to
“Shawty is the Shit” and that ay, ay repetition
it starts to become your signature in so many
songs but to have Rihanna sing it on a record
that spent seven weeks at the top of Billboard
in the States, 11 in Europe.
Did you set that up deliberately or how did
that happen?
The-Dream: Now that's entitled my ode to Atlanta.
But where it really came from was I was broke,
as I said before.
Everyone who runs Pro Tools and understands
this is you have the option of certain plugins
you want to use before your computer actually
slows down and you can't use it anymore.
The reverb one was just one that I said I'm
not going to use.
Instead, I would sing those lines repetitively
myself to actually fill that thing in.
Just a silly thing that just turned into,
oh yeah, I probably should do that all the
time.
Rob Markman: Dream, the human reverb.
Songs like “Single Ladies,” songs like
“Run the World,” just big women anthems.
I think just being a man and being able to
write from the perspective of a woman on these
big records the way that you have is a gift
that not many have and I want to find out
where that comes from.
The-Dream: It's definitely from a closeness
with my mother.
I feel like I lost my best friend in one way.
In another way, that was the love of my life.
Her being around older women when I was, like
I'm talking about women, kids, shit to do.
A different world than now it's a little bit
different.
My mother gave birth to me when she was 19.
All her friends there at the house talking
about women problems with men usually.
They probably haven't changed.
But I was just preview to a lot of conversations
and a lot of sensitive points from a woman's
standpoint and point of view so I was able,
without knowing, to keep that in me, to be
able to deliver it through songs.
I didn't know that I would be able to say,
this is the right thing for Rihanna to say
or let's do “Just Fine” for Mary J. Blige
because she's going through something and
let's say this because this is how you should
feel and on top of that holding a woman to
the very highest esteem period.
I didn't know it was there, it was just a
discovery.
I had no idea like hey man, you write better
records for women than you do for other male
artists.
Rob Markman: Help me understand a little bit
something like “Single Ladies” with Beyonce
like how does that start.
Do you come to like B, I've got this brilliant
idea?
The-Dream: At the time, when I wrote that
record, I was on a tour with Jay and Mary
J. Blige at the time.
And I believe Jay caught me in one of those
cities and he was like yo, I need you to go
in with my girl.
We went to rock the mic and there's everybody
and this is a true story.
Everybody is ready to work, Stargate is in
one room, there's a couple of other producers
in one of the side rooms, Timbaland is in
the back and I walk in.
The thing that people mostly don't know about
me is I talk shit to literally rev myself
up to do it.
It's not... that I may believe it, is the
crazy part of why did you put yourself in
that scenario.
I walk into the studio and I'm just loud and
obnoxious and being silly and I said, I don't
know who has or think they have the first
single on B but it's over with, I got the
first single.
I had not wrote a record, I didn't know what
I was going to write.
I ain't heard a beat, nothing.
I literally backed myself into this corner.
That wasn't the first record I wrote that
night.
There was another record, it was really, really
good, it just wasn't “Single Ladies,”
which was the next record I wrote, which it
took probably approximately around 17 minutes
to do.
Usually those songs that take a small amount
of time are usually the bigger ones because
you're not thinking about it, it's just a
mood.
I had no idea had already been calculating
what I felt like Beyonce should say to everybody
if you were Beyonce, which is kind of everybody.
If you're not married, you're in a relationship
with some guy that just happens to be Jay
Z.
Rob Markman: Just happens to be.
The-Dream: You're in a relationship with a
guy, you want him to commit.
How do I make this a coffee table conversation
that the guys of course are going to lynch
me for, of course, but all the women are going
to love it and that's who I love so I don't
really care.
I come up with this brilliant idea, if you
like it, then you should've put a ring on
it.
I'm like, yeah that sounds like some sassy
shit a girl would say to me.
Well, now I'm gone so you should've seen some
at first, bye.
Rob Markman: Amazing record, now an anthem
for single ladies everywhere.
The-Dream: Forever.
Rob Markman: Forever.
The-Dream: Thanks, Dream.
Rob: Another guy who you've written for, Justin
Bieber.
The-Dream: Yeah.
Rob Markman: We talk about you're able to
write these amazing records for women and
from that perspective and real sexy songs
like, “Bed.”
All of a sudden you put yourself in the mind
frame of a little 12, 13-year-old kid from
Canada.
“Baby.”
How does Baby happen?
The-Dream: Man, that's an easy one though,
man.
The backstory is probably even better.
Shout out to my man Chris Hicks.
Chris Hicks wrote me a five million dollar
check so shout out to Chris Hicks.
Chris Hicks was at Def Jam at the time and
Bieber came through that boat with him and
Usher at that time.
Me and Chris Hicks went back, he's from Atlanta,
Noontime we know each other.
I'm in the building he'd say, hey man, I'm
closing up this Justin Bieber album, I need
a record.
It's like, yeah okay.
I'll get you a record but I need you to pay
for two nights of my hotel stay at the Plaza.
He's like, nah I'm not doing it.
I'm like what?
I'm like, ten for ten.
You're not going pay?
Nah, man it's like $2500, I'm not doing it.
Okay, man.
Cool.
I leave the building and I get a call, okay
cool, I'm gonna pay for the hotel, man.
Don't go to the airport.
I stayed there, I went to the ballet that
night.
I think the next night I wrote the record.
It took like 22 minutes to write it but I
had to wait for the next night to write because
then he probably wouldn't have paid for the
next night at the hotel.
True story.
Rob Markman: And then all the work that you've
done in hip-hop and just in this conversation
that I'm learning actually as we going along,
this seems to be like just your playground.
It seems like you have the most fun.
Working with guys like Kanye and Jay Z, we're
talking about songs “No Church in the Wild,”
“Ultralight Beam,” “Holy Grail,” Pusha
T, one of the hardest Pusha T records ever,
“Exodus 23:1”, hard.
How do you approach working on a hiphop record?
Is it any different?
Do you put yourself in a different mindset?
The-Dream: Nah, my favorite record is Riding
Dirty by UGK.
That's my favorite album, like period.
Hip-hop is expressive in a certain type of
way that R&B could never be and it shouldn't
try to emulate.
They belong to their own places.
Of course, you make your choice to do which
thing it is that you want to do.
I'm lucky enough to have worked with those
great people that you've already named, for
them to let me do my thing.
I first had the idea that it was okay to do
it though by listening to Tupac when he took
Devante and he made those tracks.
I knew what mindset he had to be in to make
those because those weren't R&B tracks.
And I'm still at that moment now waiting on
the Dr. Dre part of when somebody let's me
go crazy on their whole album, just do the
whole thing.
I'm sure somebody is going to probably get,
unfortunately shot after that.
I don't know what kind of rap they're doing
today, they say something about somebody but
then they're friends on the next track and
then friends with the other person.
I don't really get that, we beefin, we beefin.
Rob Markman: Hold on now.
The-Dream: I'm just saying.
Rob Markman: You're on the track like during
the creation like Exodus 23:1, which a lot
of people believe contains shots on Pusha's
part at some other MCs, you know a lot of
people, the Cash Money camp in particular.
Does that put you in it?
The-Dream: It kind of makes you, of course.
I think everybody has to pick a side at a
certain point but we're all grownups and individuals.
If somebody says they're moving on, they're
moving on.
It doesn't put me in the forefront of anything,
which I don't care whether I am or I am not
because at the end of the day, somebody knows
what's the real thing that's being said and
somebody knows who is not actually giving
you 100% the truth.
I just want to make sure that I'm aligned
with real things.
Subliminal shots, like I don't really understand
that completely.
I'd rather you just it to the person.
Even when I heard about it, it was like, oh
really?
That name didn't come up while we were writing
the record.
But okay, cool.
Rob Markman: Another record I want to talk
about, Holy Grail.
The-Dream: Yeah.
Rob Markman: I know you loved this record,
we loved this record.
Jay Z, Holy Grail.
Y'all know this record?
Y'all rock with this record?
This record again it talks about your influence
as a writer because you had a direct hand
in this record but then this record started
influencing the ‘Watch the Throne’ project
and the energy around it.
Things that you may not have a writing credit
on, maybe your DNA is somewhere tucked a little
bit.
The-Dream: The great thing about my camp and
my family and I extend that through Jay, Kanye,
Pusha, and everybody on that side is they
see me as a writer, period.
I'm welcomed in that room and it's a blessing
that I am.
Hearing “Niggas in Paris” while in Paris,
I actually wasn't even there for that.
I was there just on some bullshit.
They found out I was there and said, yo just
come over and listen to it, you know we're
listening over here.
Not that they needed me there of course.
“Niggas in Paris” didn't sound exactly
how it sounded in the end.
Jay's verse started off, “Ball so hard cause
niggas want to find me.”
We had heard ball or balling in a song so
many times but nobody was scared to used it
still because nobody had did it to a point
where it was like, okay that's it, done.
Don't nobody use it again.
But he said it in such a way, the repetitive
reverb Dream was like, put ball so hard through
the whole song.
Every two bars, ball so hard, ball so hard
until they just put it through the whole thing.
It ended up basically in the whole thing,
which is awesome.
Rob Markman: Paris is an amazing record.
I mean, you know, they went on tour in each
city, 12 nights in a row.
The-Dream: We tore that thing down.
That moment gave birth to the ‘Holy Grail’
in the same time because immediately I left
to just start working on Jay's project because
of this affinity with rap.
I was like, I'm going to work on something
for you, is that okay?
He's like, of course, what are talking about?
Just go and work.
I flew back to California at the time and
did “Holy Grail,” did the track, did the
hook.
I remember sending it to Tyty and Jay at the
same time, I think they were having dinner
somewhere and I guess Jay had heard the record
right then and hit me back, it's like oh shit,
this is the name of my album.
It was like, oh there it is.
Just a little insight.
Rob Markman: Then that record also connects
to “No Church in the Wild.”
The-Dream: Yeah, the buck doesn't stop there.
Rob Markman: This is great story, guys.
The-Dream: Yeah.
Jay has Holy Grail for his own project.
They were wrapping up Watch the Throne and
I get a phone call from my good friend, Chaka
Pilgrim who says, we need you to come to New
York like ASAP, like now.
I'm in Newport, I just bought a boat.
I'm chillin like a motherfucker, I'm not coming
up there.
I'm writing good records.
I think I either just finished ‘1977’
or something, I was in a groove.
I was like, no man.
I'm not fuckin with y'all right now.
I don't know what you want but leave me alone.
Of course, I went and if didn't go, “No
Church in the Wild” and winning a Grammy
for that record wouldn't have happened.
It was still based off of Jay playing “Holy
Grail” for Ye while they were finishing
up ‘Watch the Throne.’
It was crazy.
A Grammy literally came out of that one moment
and me just doing what I was naturally going
to do.
Rob Markman: It's all about just the energy
in the room and the creative energy just flowing.
The-Dream: Yeah.
Rob Markman: That's amazing, man.
I want to go back, man.
I have so many questions.
Our community, our Genius community has another
question.
This one is a good one too.
Jael, you want to handle this one?
The-Dream: Shoot first.
Jayelle: Okay, our next question from the
Genius community is from Ben Carter.
If you could lock in and do a full collaborative
project with one artist, who would it be?
The-Dream: Wow.
That's a good one.
Today, Celine Dion.
Rob Markman: Why Celine?
I mean, why not Celine but I didn't see that
one coming.
The-Dream: I've already done a record on her.
I have a record called “Skies of LA” that
we did, I think in 2009 or 2010.
That voice, just something about it.
Me and the great Mariah Carey, we already
did I felt like a great album.
Most of the times you take the hits for what
the artist wants to do but I've never been
the one to hustle the music business.
If B wants to do ‘4’ and she's in her
R&B mode, that's what the fuck we're going
to do.
That's cool.
Nobody is counting dollars or whatever in
there, we're just trying to make great music.
‘Memoirs’ is like what Mariah would even
call her greatest albums, period.
I just would like that same thing for Celine.
Rob: We here for it.
We here for it?
Yeah, we're here for it.
Celine, if you're watching, we're definitely
filming this, Celine if you're watching, we've
got to make this happen.
We have another question from our Twitter
contest winner, Jael?
Jael: Everybody, this Ciani.
We know that Ciani has a good question.
What question do you have for The-Dream?
Ciani: How do you ultimately choose who gets
the song?
Is it the music or the talent?
The-Dream: What you try to do and this is
a real thing.
My good friend and sister Beyonce probably
holds maybe 50 titles of records that I have
that have not been released for that very
reason.
Because she's talented, they will stay there
and probably won't go on anyone because only
B could sing them.
The same way with Ri, Ri has titles of mine
that only she could sing.
Every now and then, there's somebody who you
want to make sure that they get their shot
and you want to let the new person up into
the realm of things and I want to be that
person for the next Toni Braxton and the next
Whitney Houston, which I think I'm now at
that space where I can do that and invite
that person to go and find them.
Beforehand, I'd rather a great person sing
my records before it just turns into oh cool,
how much money you got, like here you go.
That's kind of my take on it.
Rob: I remember when ‘Love vs Money’ came
out, I was working at Double XL Magazine.
Amazing album and I got this press advance
from the label and on it at the end as a bonus
song on this press advance was “1+1” years
before.
The-Dream: Oh shut the fuck up.
Rob Markman: Absolutely, I still got it in
the crib.
The-Dream: “1+1” was on ‘Love vs Money’
and LA Reid said he didn't like it so we took
it off.
Sorry I had to throw him under the bus.
Rob: Damn, LA.
The-Dream: It's a gift and a curse to be able
to do so many and manufacture them at a certain
level each time.
To say “1+1” has been forgotten by me,
that's the truth.
I had forgot it was there.
It was just on the hard drive, just floating
there amongst the rest of the seas of songs.
Because that point was, if I wasn't going
to sing it, I wasn't going to give it to anyone
else because I didn't feel like anybody else
could sing it.
Chaka Pilgrim, my good friend again, reminded
me like, where's that song?
I don't know the name of it.
She started to try to sing but it wasn't good.
She doesn't everything else right but the
singing part.
She reminded me of this record and said, you
need to play that for B. I played it for her
and that was kind of the history of that record.
There is maybe about 600 songs that are just
forgotten that could work like every day of
the week.
Rob Markman: But the great songs, do you find
that they always tend to find the right home?
The-Dream: Not always.
How many songs can you put on an album.
It just depends what your output is.
Some of these songs hopefully, they remain
timeless and I'll be able to use them 10-15
years from now or my kids will be able to
use them for whatever reason.
They're not going anywhere.
They're like poems that last forever.
Rob Markman: We've largely mostly been speaking
about the work that you've done contributing
and working with other people.
Did you always have that desire to be as an
artist or did you start as a writer and that
grew?
The-Dream: There's nobody in this business
that didn't have the desire to be an artist
and if you didn't, you kind of scare me.
Just get away from me, I don't know what's
wrong.
I remember being in a group, it was like five
of us and we were singing.
We had this harmony thing going on and it
was cool.
Then you get bills and then that shit goes
away.
Luckily, I was blessed enough to be able to
still do music in a certain capacity.
It was the same decision you make about playing
basketball.
If you're like 5'10 , you just probably shouldn't
play unless you're Isaiah Thomas.
Rob Markman: Isiah Thomas, y'all.
By the time you get to Love Hate, classic
album, Bro.
This album done got me personally through
a lot.
Y'all got love for that Love Hate?
That was a moment, love me all summer, hate
me all winter.
Full title.
What state are you in because now, finally
rather than maybe individual songs or working
with artists here and there, you're creating
an entire body of work.
The-Dream: I needed an outlet to showcase
what I did and what I could do.
When you're just a songwriter, you're waiting
on people to pick your songs.
“Shawty is a 10,” yeah probably that could've
been a single on somebody.
“Fast Car,” probably not.
“Living a Lie” with Rihanna or the “Mama”
song that I wrote about my mom.
Who could I put that on?
I'm talking about my mom here.
I was literally just being a vessel for the
music that I was making at that particular
time.
That was it.
It wasn't, I can't wait to be known in every
house.
No, that wasn't it.
Rob Markman: One of the things that I don't
know if you get a ton of credit for, the songwriting
is great, but the way you tell stories throughout
an album, the way you sequence an album.
I mean, if we're just going to go down from
“I Love Your Girl,” “Fast Car,” “Nikki,”
“She Needs My Love,” “Falsetto.”
Those four, five songs right there to me is
some of the best sequencing in modern music.
The way they bleed into each other, the story
that it tells, the journey that it takes us
on.
Clearly, that is no accident my brother.
The-Dream: No, because most of those songs
were wrote on the backend of those songs.
They didn't exist at all.
“Fast Car” going into “Nikki.”
“Nikki” didn't exist until I wrote “Fast
Car.”
“She Needs My Love “didn't exist until
I wrote “Nikki.”
I was weaving them together as I went song
to song.
It wasn't about I had 10 songs and let me
put this one here.
I was able to do that but that was before
you knuckleheads started wanting singles.
Rob Markman: To me, it just means more as
a music fan because you really get the full
picture.
The-Dream: Before this, nobody probably knows
exactly how I did it in depth, really of even
how I could make a song last the whole album
and title it different things like along the
way.
But it's a different game that we're in now.
Now I'm in a plan mode.
I have to do this for those kids that are
coming after you because we don't have the
patience right now for me to put it together
for what's important for today's either radio
or internet, whatever it is.
Rob: You mentioned ‘1977’ and that's my
next question.
I don't know if it's your best album where
a critic might rank it.
This is personally my favorite album of yours.
I think this is an absolute classic.
You know, you grow up and when you're a fan
of R&B music and I'm sorry ladies, I'm speaking
for the fellas right now, I think the way
women kind of connect to a Mary J. Blige,
“My Life” and Mary really speaks to the
things that women go through or a Lauryn Hill,
‘The Miseducation of Lauryn Hill’ and
the way that really touches you.
It touches all music fans but the way it touches
women in particular.
For me, ‘1977’ and I think a lot of guys
in the room could agree was our the things
that wish I could say to my woman but don't
have the balls to, the album, ‘1977.’
The-Dream: It was definitely a bold artistic
move by me that cost at that particular time
because you could lose a lot of women fans
who don't want to hear that shit.
It was like, what are you complaining about,
shut the fuck up.
I just had a very good time doing it and being
able to be that vessel for, you know men get
in a place too.
Me and my girl, she's in here somewhere, we
have these debate and these conversations
about being macho or whatever that means today
and whether you could still be that way as
a man but also be vulnerable at the same time.
Vulnerability is the greatest strength that
you actually have to be seen broken and be
okay with it and be able to explain that to
other people.
‘1977’ was a broken album.
It was like, oh cool, we broke Dream.
Yeah, you did and I'm going to talk about
it.
That was a very decisive record to make.
Rob Markman: Also, that technically isn't
The-Dream album, you released it originally
under Terius Nash.
The-Dream: Yeah, I wanted them to know it
was me, like me, me.
Rob Markman: That’s amazing.
There was this interesting song on there,
“Form of Flattery.”
The-Dream: Right.
Rob Markman: I want to get into your mindset
because for me this is like the R&B version
of “Take Over.”
Rob Markman: My brother what was going on?
It's so sweet but it's so gangster.
The-Dream: It was my Pimp C moment.
In melody and in theory.
That record was just about, there's no me
without a lot of people that came before me
and that's the rule I play by.
That's just how it is.
It's a new industry now.
If 10 people could sound the same and literally
will not say that, not it's not the same.
Yes it is.
It's okay.
You did, you just stole the man's whole shit.
It's fine but don't act like you just came
up with it.
When I came out, I was Dream kind of reminds
me of R. Kelly.
I was like, yes!
It's fuckin R. Kelly.
Thank god.
Rob: Twelveplay.
The-Dream: Yes, I remind of you of somebody
that's dope as fuck.
Oh man, you kind of remind me of Prince.
Good, that's what I was fuckin going for.
Like I'm glad this shit worked.
Now, if you hear somebody say, you remind
me, I'll just take somebody, you remind me
of Jay Z.
How could I remind you of Jay Z?
I don’t know what that shit is.
I don’t know what that is.
In the body of artists out here something
I'm inspired by is something that anybody
could do in here or say or we can have a conversation
about it and I will admit that I'm inspired
by it.
Rob Markman: Do you see your influence today?
The-Dream: Of course.
Rob Markman: I think we're in a space where
rappers are using a lot more melody than ever
before and R&B singers are using a lot more
rap cadences than ever before and everything
kind of lives now in the middle.
The-Dream: I had a lot to do with it for good
and for bad.
It's my idea that 99% of people can't really
sing-sing.
Most of the times I write my records so you
can sing with me.
That's why I write them that way.
I had something to do with it because I brought
it down to a place where it was easier for
everybody to kind of be in that place and
sing along, which is a good thing because
I think rap took a jump from that.
Drake took a jump from that whether he wants
to admit it or not.
There's a lot of guys that took that jump
to that place but have walked up to me and
said like yo, I fuck with your whole first
album, I listen to it every day all long.
It was like, oh yeah, I could tell.
It's a great thing that that happens.
The bad part is the gatekeepers now don't
know the difference between what R&B is and
what rap is and so that's my disservice because
I kind of started that thing where you still,
if you had a radio station, you should know.
This is R&B, play the shit.
If you've got 10 records, pick 5 rap records
and 5 R&B records but true R&B records and
sing those.
Every night out of the week can't be fuckin
hip-hop night at every club.
Rob: We've got to take that challenge amongst
ourselves.
We accept that challenge that you give us
right now into making sure R&B thrives.
The question is, do you believe that traditional
R&B can thrive in this market the way things
are right now?
The-Dream: R&B is literally the sweetest moments
of life.
If everybody is actually living and you just
don't have sweet moments, then no.
It won't exist ever.
You can forget about it.
Nobody has to fall in love, nobody has to
get married.
I'm quite sure you still have a wedding song.
There's a girl that has her eye on a wedding
song.
Moments are made by those songs.
It's just different soundtracks for different
moments.
It just doesn't have to be that all the time.
Rob Markman: I want to go back to the Genius
community real quick.
Jael, I know you have a question from the
community.
This is a good one.
Jael: The Genius community wants to know more
about Drake.
We've got Genius community member Shyink,
his question is what was it like working with
Drake on “Shut It Down” and why haven't
you worked together since?
The-Dream: There it is.
No, shout out to Drake and what he's done
with his career.
Like I said before, I'm just like a real student
of how these things go.
I remember when Drake was putting this record
together, I was getting calls after calls
after calls like yo, get on this record, get
on this record, like yo, get on this record.
I said, I'm going to do the record.
I'm on tour, I'm going to do the record.
As soon as I get to a place, I'm going to
do it.
Drake called like you, this is how I wanted
it to sound.
Like Drake, I'm going to do this record how
I'm going to do it.
I'm going to give it back to you the same
way you sent it with your verse on it, like
I'm going to send it back to you.
He was like, okay cool.
No problem.
The record came out great, I think.
It came out great with a lot of people doing
a lot of things.
I think when the next album came along since
somebody wants to know why we never worked
again.
I asked him to get on a record and he never
got on the record.
I'm only going to ask you once, especially
if I've already done something for you.
That went through his people directly to him
and whatever that thing was and that was it.
That's the end of the Drake and Dream era
of a record.
Rob Markman: Definitely.
Obviously, the amazing artist you are, he's
a great artist in his own right.
The-Dream: Oh, definitely.
Rob Markman: Collaborations ae nice and collaborations
are great and sometimes could just be great
without each other.
Amazing.
We've got another question from the audience,
right Jael?
Jael: Yes, we do.
This is Brandon, he's another Twitter contest
winner and Dream super fan.
The-Dream: Oh, shit.
What's up man?
Brandon: How has your approach to recording
and releasing music changed under the new
business models in the industry?
The-Dream: The more fortunate part of answering
that question, is I have a firm belief in
publishing.
The business model that has changed and me
understanding how to do business in that arena
will keep me in a certain place monetarily
okay.
I still get to create records not out of desperation
though but just for the art of it like of
what I want to do or what I feel like or where
I think it's going versus feeling like, oh
let me make a record like so-and-so's record
so I can get some radio play so I could put
some money in my pocket.
At the heart of it and what I do, I'm a songwriter
and songwriters are just ... When you're that
first, the artist part of me is second like
regardless.
How I release records is how I will continue
to release them, I will try to do it exactly
how I released ‘Love vs Money’ or ‘Love
Hate’.
I just feel like when something is new, it's
new.
You can't defeat new.
You just have to wait to become classic as
I've said before.
The way that I'm going to do it is the way
that I'm going to continue to do it.
I don't think these songs will get old and
neither will my spirit.
Rob Markman: Absolutely, yeah give it up.
One an amazing journey that you've been on
thus far.
What does the future hold for Dream?
What do you have coming up next?
I heard some things, man.
The-Dream: I could do anything.
I broke myself as an artist at the age of
29.
If that isn't already hard enough to do what
I've done in a ten-year period in this span,
to even be blessed enough to be sitting here
in front of you guys talking about this.
I could wrap it up and say, oh cool, goal
is done and just moving on but it's too many
other things.
Once you're moving from one thing, it's all
art to me.
It's all in a bowl like it's just on a plate.
There's an Ice Cube I need to chase now.
There's a Dr. Dre I need to chase down.
It's moved on from Lionel and Diane to now
it's other people that I see and say, oh they
used that same brain to get those things and
I can use my brain to actually get to the
same things that you have.
It's just an everlasting idea to keep pushing
myself.
This music thing like water.
My songs are going to be my songs regardless.
People get hot and cold and wander off but
you'll be back.
When it's time for you to get married or fall
in love again, I'll be here.
This idea of what to do or what to do next
is what I've been doing all along.
These are just steps.
I was already preparing to be able to retire
at a very early age.
Not meaning retire, you never see me again
but oh cool, I could put my shit up and now
I can do whatever the fuck I want to do but
still use myself in the things that I see
and the movies I want to write and direct
and bring them to the world.
Nobody has any real idea what's in my mind
and heart sitting on this stage.
You just know what I've done.
When I didn't have that stuff before, you
didn't know I could do that.
We have no idea what I can actually do.
Rob Markman: Mysterious, intriguing.
I know I can't wait.
I would just like to thank you for coming
out here to Genius.
Sitting with us, I know that some of these
questions might be like asking a bird how
it flies.
It's just like, man I just do it.
But the way that you're able to break this
down for us and make us understand and bring
us into your world is something that we truly,
truly, truly appreciate.
The-Dream: Thank you guys for having me.
Thanks to Levi’s, 1800, Tidal.
Radio Killa records, Roc Nation.
Thank you guys for really giving me this time.
I hope I wasn't too obnoxious today.
Rob Markman: Nah, man.
All right everybody, please give it up for
yourselves, give it up for Dream.
Genius Level, the first one.
There will never be another.
The greatest songwriter of our generation.
