[MUSIC PLAYING]
DANIEL SIEGEL: Thank you.
Thank you.
Can you hear me all right?
Fantastic.
Well, it's an honor
to be here with you.
Thank you for that introduction.
I'd really love to spend
hours with you talking
about these important issues,
about our mental health
as parents as people
on the planet,
and what we can do to create
the experiences for children so
that they thrive.
But in this short 30-
to 40-minute time,
and then we'll have time
for Q&A, what I'd like to do
is just present to you
some basic knowledge
that comes from science.
So the field I work in is called
interpersonal neurobiology.
So we combine all the
fields of science--
so anthropology, sociology,
linguistics, psychology,
biology, including neuroscience
and genetics, chemistry,
physics, and math--
all into one framework.
And there's over 75
textbooks that I've
overseen the publication of.
So if you want the
science it's all there.
And then what I get to
do, either on my own
or with my students
and now colleagues,
is to translate that science,
that interdisciplinary
science for parents to use.
So everything I'm
going to be presenting
to you this afternoon
is really all
derived from a deep synthesis
of all the fields of science.
And there are all
those textbooks
if you want to read more.
But for this talk, I'm
going to actually address
four different
categories of things.
And if you're having
a mind that likes
to know what we're going to do,
here's what we're going to do.
We're going to cover four Ses,
three Ps, two Rs, and one M.
So as we go through,
you may want to say,
OK, I know there's four Ses.
So what actually are they?
What are those Ses?
And I know there are three Ps.
Now you probably
already know the Ps
because it's in the
title of the talk.
And then there are two Rs--
you may no idea what those are--
and one M. So let's
get ready to dive in.
Let's do the Ses first, though.
I'm trained in what's called
attachment research, which
means we study the
way parents interact
with their children across
cultures all around the planet.
And we look at what the
universal findings are
for what helps children thrive.
Now, of course,
parenting is different
in different cultures,
but you can actually
find, in a scientific way,
what the universal are.
And that comes down
to actually four Ses.
So here the Ses.
I may quiz you at the end,
so get ready for these.
The first is "seen--" S-E-E-N--
seen.
And what seen means is that a
child, starting from infancy
on, needs to have their
inner mental life attended
to by the caregiver.
Now, we'll use the word parents.
But our species actually has
something called alloparenting.
Which means not only do the
birth parents, the mother
and the father,
care for the infant,
but actually, we evolved
to share child rearing
with trusted others.
And there's some beautiful
books by Sarah Hrdy--
H-R-D-Y. One of them is
called "Mothers and Others,"
looking at this history
of how, in fact,
we share child rearing.
So the first thing is that
no matter who the caregiver--
I'll just use the word parent.
Usually, it's an adult, but
it can be an adolescent who's
caring for the child--
that child needs to be
"seen" by the caregiver.
Now, as we go through the
experience of being seen,
what's the feeling
when someone actually
sees your emotions
or your memories
or what you're thinking or the
meaning of something for you?
Well, one way-- a person
I was working with
described that as the feeling
that we have that's called
"feeling felt."
You feel like another
person really knows you.
So not just that they're
responding to your behavior,
but they're actually seeing
the inner mental life
of feelings and thoughts
and things like that.
Your mind includes your
subjective experience.
And if someone is
just paying attention
to your outer behavior, they're
actually not seeing you.
And about 20% of the
population in the US, at least,
has parents who don't
see their children.
It's quite remarkable.
We can study those
parent-child relationships
and show that it has a
definite impact on the way
that child develops if that's
their primary attachment
relationship.
So the first test is "seen."
The next S is "soothed."
What soothed means is
that if I'm your child,
and I'm distressed, you're
going to do something.
Not only see what's
going on with me,
but now you're going to
carry out an action that
helps me feel calmer.
So I go from a
state of distress,
which can be either in the
form of chaotic explosions
or rigid shutting down.
Either of those--
chaos or rigidity--
are ways that children
could be out of equilibrium
and in a state of distress.
And you notice that.
And now you behave in such
a way that I feel better.
What I learned as
your child is that,
I can be in a state of distress.
But with your guidance
early on in my childhood,
I learn I can feel better.
And what happens is I
take those experiences,
and I actually change the
structure of my brain.
And I build in the
circuitries of what's
called self-regulation based
on relational experiences.
So relationships are
a form of experience,
and they change the
structure of our brains.
That probably happens
throughout the lifespan.
But especially in childhood
when the brain is developing
all up, and even
during adolescence
when it's remodeling,
these relationships
are crucially important
for developing
what I call integration
in the brain,
the way different parts
of the brain are linked.
OK, so the first two Ses
are "seen" and "soothe."
The third S is
the S of "safety."
The whole attachment system is
designed to protect the child.
And if we didn't have
it, because as mammals,
we actually come
out pretty immature.
As humans, were the most
immature of all infants.
And so we need the
protection of our caregiver.
There's two kinds of
safety in this S. One
is that we're
protected from harm.
The other is that
we, as the parents,
are not the source of terror.
So unfortunately, somewhere
between 5% and 15%
of the non-clinical
US population
has an experience with a
caregiver where the caregiver
is terrifying them.
Now you may say, well, come on.
Of course that happens
like with abuse or neglect.
That's true.
But even when there's
not abuse and neglect,
if someone comes home and
is raging in the other room,
that's terrifying for a child.
If a parent comes
home and gets drunk,
and in that altered
state is terrifying,
that's terrifying for a child.
And that wouldn't be
included under the term
abuse or neglect, but it
still would be terrifying.
So these two forms
of safety, protecting
from harm and not being
a source of terror,
are what we mean by safe.
So let's review the three Ses--
safe, soothed, seen.
Very good, seen.
Now your hippocampus
in your brain
is going to love
if I involve you
in trying to memorize
these things.
Because if you
passively sit there,
whether you're watching this
video or here in the room,
you are going to not learn
as much as if you actively
take part in an
experience like this.
And as an educator
or a therapist,
I'm always wanting
to engage people.
So that's why we have
these numbers we're doing.
So the fourth S of
this sequence is
if you have the
experience of being seen,
the experience of being soothed,
and the experience of being
safe on a reliable
basis, and when
there are ruptures
to those three Ses,
and they're repaired,
so there's no such thing
as perfect parenting.
So even though we're making
this list of all these Ses,
the fact is there's no such
thing as perfect parenting.
So if I said just the word
repair for the rest of the time
here, it probably would
be a very effective thing
because we're too hard
on ourselves as parents.
We think there's supposed to be
something perfect, like there's
a science of it.
Or even me as someone
who studies this stuff
and does research in it, you'd
think I'm doing it right.
But the reason in all
of my parenting books
I write or my colleagues and I
both write, how we each do it,
we flub up because
there's no such thing
as perfect parenting.
But at least if we know the
general direction we're going.
And when we veer off of that
because we're having a bad day,
we're tired, we
miss the opportunity
to connect or soothe,
when we realize
that, we can make repair.
And a repair involves
recognizing what we've done,
taking a deep breath and being
kind to ourselves, and saying,
you know something?
That was a mistake.
And I need to go back
and make a reconnection
because I didn't see my child.
I didn't soothe my child.
Or my child wasn't safe.
And if I can make repair
when there are the ruptures,
and, for the most part, I
try to offer these three
Ses on a reliable basis,
I get the fourth S
which is called "security."
And secure attachment is
a kind of vaccination.
It doesn't guarantee
anything, but it's
kind of a vaccination
that supports
the development of resilience.
Other things can
happen-- temperament,
accidents, infections.
All sorts of things
can happen to the brain
so that a child,
when they get older,
going through
adolescence especially,
can have hard times.
But all the research
shows that children
who have a secure attachment
are the most likely to have
resilience through the
rocky period of adolescence
and then into adulthood.
So a colleague of
mine, Allan Schore--
for I'm going to see
tomorrow in Minnesota--
what Allan and his
colleagues have
shown in a study that's
gone over 40 years.
So these little babies were
first studied, actually,
before they were even
out in the world,
when the mothers were pregnant.
They then studied
the relationship
between the caregivers
and this little baby,
and this little baby's
now in their mid 40s.
And you can show that
how parents communicate
with these Ses shapes how that
40-year-old has resilience
or not.
It's remarkable.
But it's kind of understandable,
because these relationships
are shaping the structure
of that child's brain
in a way that forms a
foundation, like of a building.
And the building, if the
foundation is strong,
will be strong no matter
what kind of storms happen.
So let's review the four Ses.
If you have which
three Ses do you
get the fourth S of security?
Safe, seen, soothe.
Excellent.
And can you ever have a
rupture and repair it?
Yes.
And that's the most
important thing to remember
is that there's no such
thing as perfect parenting,
but you can move your way
to making a repair when
these Ses are ruptured.
Now, let's go to now the
three Ps of this talk.
The three Ps are in the title
of the talk, which is "Presence,
Parenting, and the Planet."
And these may seem like three
completely distinct things.
I mean, Laura asked
me to come here,
which thank you for inviting me.
You know, I wanted, since
this is a YouTube talk,
and it's for people who really
like challenges and like
to think, I wanted to
put out a title that
could have you go what?
What is presence, which has to
do with the way we actually,
in research terms,
study if someone
is aware of what's
happening as it's happening,
that has what's called
a receptive awareness.
Some people would call
it mindful awareness.
And the research center
I helped found at UCLA,
we study how mindful
awareness actually
brings all sorts of positive
changes into adult's lives.
Or even in
adolescents and adults
who have attention
challenges, we
can show that if you give
mindful awareness training,
you can actually take people who
look like they have attention
problems, and having them have
more improvements than if they
were taking medications.
So presence is something
you can cultivate.
It's not something you
either have or don't have
and if you go all
around the planet,
and had to come up
with one word that
summarize the kind of
parent who provides
secure attachment
for their kid, it
would be parents
who have presence.
And for me, this was
absolutely fascinating.
Like, why would having open
awareness be like that?
So just across the
Bay here in Berkeley
is one of the world's leaders
in attachment research.
And we had--
30 of our colleagues
got together for a week
to talk about the future
of attachment research.
This is Mary Main.
And we were all gathered
there at Berkeley.
And we were talking about what
have we found in the last 30
years of research?
What should we do for
the next 30 years?
And it was really exciting.
And what I can tell you is that
presence of the parent's mind
is the predictor
of whether you're
going to have those four Ses.
So that's pretty cool.
Because if you're a
parent listening to this,
you may say, well,
how do I get that?
And the answer is there's
a way to get that.
There's a book I wrote
called "Aware" which
summarizes the research
on presence and gives you,
actually, a technique called
the Wheel of Awareness.
Where if you think about
a wheel with a center hub,
where's the knowing
of being aware,
and on the outer rim in
this metaphor of the mind
are all the things
you'd can be aware of.
Like, if I say good
afternoon, how many of you
know I said good afternoon?
Raise your hand so I can see.
Great.
So you have two things
happening there.
On the rim, you have the
sound "good afternoon,"
or if you're reading
a transcript of this
you see the words "good
afternoon" in your eyes.
But how many of you realize that
you not only have those knowns,
but you also have the knowing?
The knowing is awareness.
So parents who have presence
are able to distinguish the rim
from the hub, basically.
So let's say I'm interacting
with my daughter or my son--
now they're young adults--
but when they were young.
And let's say I didn't
have presence, right?
And let's say they're
in the bathtub.
This is an actual example.
Well, no.
I don't usually talk about
this particular example.
But in my case, the
hot-button trigger for me
is to be ignored because that
happened in my childhood.
And so it's, like,
gets me all revved up,
and I can't stay in what's
called an integrated state.
I'm no longer present.
So let's say they're in
the bathtub taking a bath.
And I say, OK,
two-minute warning.
You know, dinneRs ready.
Two minutes, you got to
get out of the bathtub.
And they're playing,
they're playing.
OK, one minute.
I want you to get
out now and dry off.
You know, 30 seconds.
And now they're still
playing in the bathtub.
So I'm being ignored by them.
In the old days,
before I was thinking
about all these things,
I might flip my lid.
So if you take your hand, and
put your thumb in the middle,
put your hands over.
Try this out.
Put your thumb in the middle.
Put your fingers
around like that.
When you have presence, this
whole system of your brain,
which is in your head
like that, is in what's
called an integrated state.
And there's a ton of research
behind what I'm going to say.
So it may sound kind of glib
to just say it so easily.
But believe me, there's a
lot of science behind this.
This integrated brain is
flexible and adaptive, right?
So a parent with presence
in that situation
would say certain things that
I'll tell you in a moment.
But before I realized all this,
this was a hot button for me.
So the cortex at the
top of this brain, which
allows flexibility,
and beneath the cortex
are the areas including the
amygdala and the hippocampus.
These are part of
the limbic area which
can store all sorts
of memories of,
let's say, being
invisible as a kid.
And then beneath that
in the brain stem
are the fight, flight,
freeze, and faint networks
of responding to threat.
So when the limbic
area and the brain stem
are collectively
working together
to respond to what the cortex
has evaluated as a threat,
then you can flip your lid.
Any parents here ever do that?
Where suddenly,
you go from being
flexible to being inflexible.
You go from being kind and
relaxed to being outraged.
Anybody ever do that?
No one's going to
raise their hand.
I'll raise my hand.
And so what happened
to me early on,
even though I was an
attachment researcher,
was having these
flip-your-lid experiences.
So I had to look into the brain
to see how does that happen?
Now, with
self-understanding, which
means having presence for
what goes on inside of you,
I could realize my
kids are ignoring me.
Being ignored is a
hot-button issue for me.
For my wife, it would be a
completely different issue.
Being ignored
doesn't bother her.
In fact, she likes
being ignored because it
gives some quiet time, because
she had a very busy house.
And so that's cool for her.
And she knows what my
hot-button issues are,
and I know what hers are.
And so we try not
to push on them.
You're saying,
oh, you have good,
and then you can push on them.
No, you try not to push on them.
So for my kids I would say,
you know my being ignored
is not something
that feels good.
And I would actually
go like this.
I would say, my
brain stem and limbic
area are working together,
and I'm about to flip my lid.
I need you to get
out of the bathtub.
And once they saw me
talking about the amygdala,
they knew it was time to
get out of the bathtub.
That was just my
way of doing it.
But you don't want
to flip your lid.
Because when you flipped your
lid and become unintegrated,
you're no longer present.
You're absent.
You're on automatic pilot.
You don't have receptive
awareness anymore,
which comes from an
integrated brain.
Now you're just responding
by old memories.
And the reason "Parenting
from the Inside Out"
was the first book I
wrote with Mary Hartzell,
the first book I would
write on parenting,
is because that's
what the science shows
based on Mary Main's work.
The number one way
you can be present
is to make sense of
how your past shaped
your development from your
childhood and adolescence
into adulthood.
And she has extensive research
across all sorts of cultures
that we study this in
to show that the best
predictor of your child
having a secure attachment
isn't whether you had
a secure attachment.
It's whether you've made
sense of your experiences.
So someone could have
had a horrible set
of abusive experiences,
done the work
to make sense of
their past, how?
"Parenting from the Inside
Out" is a guide to do that.
Then what happens is they
now have this integrated
brain because they've
resolve their traumas.
And now, they remain present
even in challenging times
when the hot button's
being pushed.
So presence is actually
a state of mind
you can develop for
parenting, the second P.
And we've already said
your goal in parenting
is to provide these four Ses.
So we've already
reviewed what that is.
Why do I have the third
P in there-- planet?
The reason I have
the third P there
and the planet is because--
and this is really sad
to talk about this,
and you probably know this, so
I'm not saying anything new.
But if you hang out with
kids, whether they're
young kids or adolescents--
I just did a conference
where an 8-year-old
was brought from up here in
San Francisco down to LA.
I brought him on stage with me.
And I had Paul Hawken
there, a draw-down
about really trying to work
with the planet's health,
Louie Schwartzberg showing
films about the planet.
This little boy Max got
up on stage with me.
And I said, Max, you know, can
you tell us what's going on?
And he said, yeah.
I wanted to tell everybody
why my mom brought me here.
And let's tell the story.
And so we had just
watched Greta Thunberg
from Sweden, the
little clip of her
on YouTube talking to
the European Parliament.
And so Max is now--
and she's 16--
Max is on the stage with me.
And he goes, I was
walking on Stinson Beach,
and there was all this
trash, and I started to cry.
And I said to my mom,
something's wrong.
Something's wrong.
Why are we trashing
up this world?
And she said, I'm
taking you down to LA
where they're doing a thing
on, basically, awareness
and the planet's well-being.
Because for Max to say that
as an eight-year-old, and are
group was very
supportive of him,
he's not speaking by himself.
This world, as Bill Nye the
Science Guy said recently.
We just watched this
also on YouTube--
you know, the world is on fire.
And as Greta said it,
our house is on fire.
We have about a dozen years--
about a dozen years to deeply
look at what's going on
and turn the path we're
on of destruction--
possibly.
Underline possibly-- in
a positive direction.
Your kids, whether
you know it or not,
are feeling the unbelievable
terror of a world on fire.
So for many of you, and
I'm looking at your ages.
You're a little younger than me.
You probably didn't
have to worry
about all the nuclear
bombs that we were
afraid was going to blow up.
But now you know that
there's something really not
right on this planet.
And if we don't have
our children fall
in love with nature, they're
going to have no motivation
to save nature.
None.
We don't have to go try
to help the planet out
of fear or guilt. We
need to really protect
the planet out of love.
And so the "planet"
of these three Ps
is that your job as parents
is to actually go beyond.
And now we get to the two R's.
So what are the three Ps?
Let's hear them-- presence,
parenting, and the planet.
Your job is to raise a child
who is resilient and can
thrive and be happy and playful
and joyful and creative, yes.
But now we get to the
two R's, and this relates
to both your child and you.
The two Rs are the brain--
and this is in "The Yes
Brain" book that you have--
the brain has two fundamental
states it gets into.
they both start with an R,
so these are your two Rs.
One is if I say the word--
and I don't know
if I should do it.
Maybe I should do it.
Should I do the exercise?
OK, put your stuff down.
Just takes a few moments.
I'm going to say a word and
repeat it several times.
This evokes one state.
Then we'll take a pause.
And then I'll say
another word, and it
evokes in the other state.
So you'll experience the Rs from
the inside out, if you will.
You ready?
Thumbs up?
OK, here we go.
So your job is just
feel whatever you feel.
My job is to walk
you through this.
Here we go.
No, no, no, no, no, no, no.
Yes, yes, yes, yes,
yes, yes, yes, yes.
Now try taking a
nice deep breath.
And try putting one
hand on your chest
and one hand on your abdomen.
And just put some
gentle pressure.
And just let some nice deep
breaths come in and out,
some gentle pressure,
eyes open or eyes closed,
whatever works for you.
To compare that,
try putting the hand
on your chest on your abdomen
and the one on your abdomen
to your chest.
Nice deep breaths.
Excellent.
See how that feels?
And just put it
whichever way may
have been the most comforting.
Left on top, right on top.
Whatever works for you is fine.
Puts a nice gentle pressure.
Excellent.
And you can leave your hands
there, or just put them down.
So let's just do a quick survey,
and this is the scientist in me
that can't help myself.
How many of you felt that
putting a hand on your chest
and hand on your abdomen
was comforting in some way.
Just raise your hand
really high so I can see.
Raise your hand
really, really high.
OK, so it's the
majority of people.
How many felt right on top
was the most comforting?
Raise your hand really high
so we can just get a rough.
OK, so that's like 80% of them.
And left hand on top?
OK, so that's much less.
And how many found left and
right were about the same?
OK.
I don't know why.
Someone should
get a PhD on this.
It's always about that.
Over 90% of people
find it comforting.
It's usually, you know, 75% or
more are right-on-top people,
and the rest are
left on top or both.
No one knows why.
But if you do the
study of it, when
it is comforting for you, at
least the study of one person,
me.
When you hook yourself up to
electrophysiological gadgets,
you become more integrated.
That's what comforting is.
An integrated state is
that calm, receptive state.
Now, just if you don't
mind, throw out some words?
What did "no" feel like when I
said no harshly several times?
Just draw out some words.
AUDIENCE: Annoying.
DANIEL SIEGEL: Annoying.
AUDIENCE: Startling.
DANIEL SIEGEL: Startling.
AUDIENCE: Angry.
DANIEL SIEGEL: Angry.
AUDIENCE: Tense.
DANIEL SIEGEL: Tense.
AUDIENCE: Scary.
DANIEL SIEGEL: Scary.
AUDIENCE: Hateful.
DANIEL SIEGEL: Hateful.
AUDIENCE: Abrasive.
DANIEL SIEGEL: Abrasive.
Is there hand back there?
OK.
So those are all descriptions
of a reactive state that
relate to our deep history
of fight, flight, freeze,
and faint.
And you can activate them
very simply with a harsh no.
Now in contrast, what
did "yes" feel like?
Let's throw out some words.
AUDIENCE: Soothing.
DANIEL SIEGEL: Soothing.
AUDIENCE: Calming.
DANIEL SIEGEL: Calming.
Calming.
AUDIENCE: Relieved.
DANIEL SIEGEL: What's that?
AUDIENCE: Relieved.
DANIEL SIEGEL: Relieved
AUDIENCE: A hug.
DANIEL SIEGEL: A hug.
OK.
And these, yes?
AUDIENCE: Not enough to
make up for the no's.
DANIEL SIEGEL: I know.
Not enough to make
up for the no's.
I'm not going to trust this guy.
Absolutely right.
It takes a lot more.
That's why we did
the hand thing.
Did the hand thing
help you a little bit?
A little bit, OK.
Do you need some support?
AUDIENCE: No, I'm good.
DANIEL SIEGEL: You're good, OK.
No, because it's tough.
It's tough.
I do this, actually,
with my patients
just to test for
self-regulation in a kid.
Some kids, when you use no,
they'll jump off the couch
and attack you.
Or if I have a
parent say to a kid--
just to see how the
two of them are doing--
the kid will come up and
start choking the parent.
That no activates a whole,
deep survival thing.
It's probably about
300 million years old.
So it's way older than
anything the cortex is doing.
So it's hard to ignore it.
That's the reactive
state of threat.
For some of you, and I'm sorry.
It may have still
lasted for you.
But to trans from that reactive
state of fight, flight, freeze,
or faint into the
receptive state of yes--
which is a state more of
soothing, calming, connecting.
It's an openness-- is an
important thing to do.
So the two Rs to remember
as a parent is you
yourself can be reactive, or
you yourself can be receptive.
And what we want to do
is know our own state,
because you can not
effectively parent
from a reactive state of mind.
So in my case, I would get
reactive if I was ignored.
So the kids in the
bathtub were about to get
a very reactive father.
That's not helpful parenting.
They're not being seen,
they're not being soothed,
and they're being terrified.
When we become
reactive, it's often
obliterating those
three Ses, and so we
have to make a repair.
The first part of the repair is
move ourselves from reactivity
to receptivity.
Now, one time, I was
teaching in a workshop.
And the next day--
our daughters were in preschool
together-- one of the moms
in the workshop
came and said, that
was so helpful to understand
it flipped my lid.
And I said, what was
so helpful about it?
And she goes, because I've
been flipping my lid every day
of my child's life.
And I didn't realize that my
brain was going like this,
and I was flipping my lid.
I now know it isn't my fault,
but it is my responsibility.
And it was so
interesting to realize
that if you teach
parents about what's
going on in their brains, they
can be kinder to themselves.
So it isn't excusing
the behavior.
It's explaining the behavior.
So this mom said to me next,
she thought she was a monster.
She thought if she
told anyone, she
needed to be put in
jail or in a hospital.
But instead, what
she came to realize,
she was just a human being.
And by understanding this,
to be kind to herself
was a helpful way to go
from her own reactivity
to receptivity to make
sense of her life.
Now, what are these two Rs.
You tell me.
What are the two states
you can get into.
When you're threatened,
you go into a--
AUDIENCE: Reactive state.
DANIEL SIEGEL: --reactive state.
And when you're feeling
calm and connecting,
you get into a
receptive state, OK?
So the four Ses-- seen,
soothe, safe, and secure.
The three Ps are presence,
parenting, the planet.
The two Rs are
reactive to receptive.
And now we get to the
one M, and then we'll
open up for questions.
You may not even be able
to guess what this M is.
Any guesses?
AUDIENCE: Mature.
DANIEL SIEGEL:
Mature, well, yeah.
Yeah, could be mature.
But I actually worry
about the word mature,
because we're always in
a state of development
across our lifespan.
And even if you look at the
essence of adolescence, which
are these four features, if you
look at the brain remodeling,
some parents say, oh,
adolescents should mature up
in their adolescent period.
Hurry up and get through
this terrible period.
It's just the opposite.
The essence of adolescence--
an emotional spark,
social engagement,
novelty seeking,
and creative
exploration-- those are
the four fundamental
features of what
happens with adolescent's
remodeling brain.
The research shows if you go
through your mid to late 20s,
when adolescence ends, into
your 60s, 70s, 80s holding
onto that essence,
you're going to actually
have a healthier life, a
healthier more integrated
brain.
So I'm always worried
about the word maturity.
And if you ever
read my textbook,
"The Developing Mind," I
don't use the word maturity.
Because we now know the brain
grows throughout the lifespan.
So you're always in a state of
growth and openness to change.
So that's not the end,
but it's a good guess.
Yeah.
So here's what it is.
And this could be a long story.
And there are
different conferences,
either for therapists
I did this recently.
Or I did a very short talk for
the Wisdom 2.0 thing for people
here in Silicon Valley.
So you can actually watch
it at Wisdom's website.
But basically, it
goes like this.
If you had to ask
me from the field
of interpersonal neurobiology,
what is the path forward
we might consider as
a question that we
might want to take that's
different from the one we're
on.
Because the one we're
on, whether you're
a parent raising
the next generation,
or just a person who is
a citizen of the planet,
the path we're on
is not working.
We're now in something
called the Anthropocene era,
where the human
species is changing
the face of the planet.
And that by itself doesn't
have to be bad, but it is bad.
It's not only bad,
it's actually lethal.
As Bill Nye says, the
planet is on fire.
Your kids and your
adolescents especially,
they're feeling this.
As some kids are saying
who are marching now,
we have no future unless
we change the path forward.
So this isn't just
like, oh, yeah,
let's have our kids learn a
new kind of way of playing
this game or that game.
We're talking about, literally,
their existence in the future.
So what could that
new path forward?
People ask me from the field
of interpersonal neurobiology.
One time, the Dalai Lama asked
me to address this question.
It was like, I had no
idea what to say to him.
And so I looked deeply into
all these different sciences
and across anthropology,
looking at different cultures,
looking at what the
fundamental basis is
of how people mature
into a sense of identity
and all that kind of stuff.
And here's, I think,
what the problem is.
And this would be
the suggestion,
and this is where
the one M comes from.
We have worked in contemporary
culture in a way that,
unfortunately, my field of
mental health and education has
reinforced, that a
four-letter word--
the self, S-E-L-F-- has
been equated with your body.
So when you're
raising your daughter
or you're raising your
son, and you want to say,
you know, little Danny--
that's in my case--
that the self of Danny
lives in this body.
And everything that this
body is supposed to do--
and even in science we have
this term self-regulation
is regulate myself.
Self actualization,
actualize myself.
Be self-involved-- it's
all self-preoccupation.
And through a ton of
scientific studies
that look at lots of different
things, but one of them
is called
self-construal, you can
show the brain, the stuff
in-between our ears,
is extremely sensitive to the
cultural messages you get.
And the contemporary
cultural message we've gotten
is that the self is separate.
It's an isolated
self that is defined
by the skin of the body.
Now, that seems pretty
innocuous, benign,
not a big deal, right?
Sure the self is in the body.
What's wrong with that?
Well, first of all,
it's a definition
that is making children
feel anxious and depressed.
So it's leading to
mental unhealth.
And it's allowing
someone, let's say,
who develops the kind
of self motivation
to do what you do in
this culture which
is acquire all this stuff and
acquire goods and maybe run
a company or something.
Now I'm running a factory.
And my parents would all
be [INAUDIBLE] Danny,
it's about you.
Get a big bank account, get
a big car, get a big house,
get a big this, get a big that.
And now I'm running a
company, and it's a factory.
And I know if I can make this
factory work a certain way,
then I'm going to
make more money.
Right?
That's the system we're in
of contemporary culture.
And it's all about this
self getting as much stuff
for this self as possible.
Now, the forest around
my factory, what do I
care if I pollute
it and destroy it?
The oceans around
my country, what
do I care if I pollute them?
Right?
I just treat earth
like a trash can.
The planet is like just
the potty for a kid
to dump their excrement.
If we continue living with
this view of a separate self,
the predictions
are dire about what
your children are going to face
just in about two dozen years.
You're already feeling
it on the planet.
So the M word that I want to
suggest to you we think about
is that sure, you have
a part of yourself
that's inside the body.
Let's call that an I or a me.
But you also have a relational
self that's not only
connected to other people, but
it's connected to the planet.
Let's just call that
an us or are we.
So in our field,
interpersonal neurobiology,
we see integration as
the fundamental basis
of health on any scale--
health of the brain
in your head, health
of the brain connected
to the whole body, health
of the relationship being
a parent and a child,
health in a family, health in
a school, health in a company,
health in this country,
health on a planet.
And in all those
different systems--
I work with scientists and
policymakers and governments
around that--
but integration is health.
So I'm going to ask you, if
integration is allowing things
to be different and then
bringing them together
and linkage so you don't
lose the differences,
so it's more like a fruit
salad than a smoothie,
how would you integrate
identity to go
beyond the isolated
separate self?
How do you maintain the
idea that, yeah, there
is a self that is
internal, but there's also
a self that's relational.
How would you combine that?
Well, one way to do it
is me, the internal self
and we, the relational
self, comes into one word
that's spelled M-W-E, MWe.
So MWe is the M-word
we're talking about.
And if MWe start raising our
children, our adolescents,
and even ourselves to bust
through the lethal lie
of the separate self,
then we have a chance
to take the four Ses
and make them real,
to actually take those three
Ps and be present and parent
well in an integrated way
to protect the planet.
And then to go from
reactivity, which
the whole world is becoming
now-- nations, governments.
Everyone's becoming reactive--
to realizing receptivity
is where we need to
be, and we can do this
through an integrated
identity of MWe.
And that's what I hope
is in front of all of MUs
as we go forward.
And I hope that these
ideas will be helpful
in your personal journey,
in your professional work,
and in the planetary
health that's
waiting for MUs to arrive.
Thank you very much
for your attention.
[APPLAUSE]
So we have time for
questions, and we also
have time for questions from the
outer world, the virtual world,
or the actual world that's
not in this physical space.
LAURA: I'll ask a question
from the Dory, the outer world.
And those of you, again, can
go backslash Dan Siegel dash
story if you have questions.
So this one says,
"They say that we
need three positive experiences
to offset one negative one.
In couples, it's
about 4 to 1 or 5 to 1
depending on your source.
Has anybody looked
at what this ratio
is in the parent-child
relationships
from the perspective
of the parent?
We seem to expect close to
perfection from our kids
a lot of the time."
DANIEL SIEGEL: You know,
it's a great question, Laura.
Thank you, and thank you to
the asker of the question.
In the field of attachment, we
do look at that kind of thing.
We don't look at
it so much as like,
what's the number of
positive versus negative?
But we look at the nature
of the negative interaction.
And, in fact, we just
had a meeting at Berkeley
about this very topic.
So that if the negative reaction
is terrifying your child,
that unfortunately,
we were hoping
this wouldn't be the case.
Even if the majority of things
that are going on are secure
attachment-- you're seen,
you're soothed, you're safe,
and it's very rare
that you're terrified--
that leads to something called
a disorganized attachment.
We predicted decades
ago that those kids
would do much better
than the ones who
had a lot more negative stuff.
And just the same
terrifying things,
but in the setting of
other negative things,
it turns out that if you've had
a parent who's terrifying you,
and there hasn't been a
repair, decades later,
there are going to be
significant clinical findings,
actually, of something
called dissociation,
difficulty with relationships,
difficulty regulating
your behavior, difficulty
regulating your emotions,
difficulty even reasoning
under stress that we believe,
based on research,
that are an outcome
of those negative experiences.
So parenting is a
little different
than just driving down
the highway and someone
screams at you.
And that was my negative thing,
so I need three positive things
to make up for that.
And certainly,
romantic relationships
are different that way.
But for a child is
developing, negative things--
and this is why we wrote
the "Yes Brain" book--
negative things actually
have long-lasting things.
So I wouldn't look
at the number of it.
I would look at the
nature of it and how
it lasts inside of a child,
especially if it's terrifying.
AUDIENCE: Can you tell
about a better way
to respond to the
kids in the bathtub?
DANIEL SIEGEL: Absolutely.
So you would look at them.
And at this moment,
of course, if you're
about to flip your
lid, the first step
is you need to take
care of yourself.
Because if I'm just screaming
and yelling at them,
it's actually not
going to be helpful.
They may get out of the
bathtub, and their behavior
may be what I was
aiming for, but I
haven't taught them the skill.
So this question
you're asking raises
the first fundamental
point, which
is that a lot of
people in English
see the word discipline
as punishment.
But discipline actually
means to teach.
And you don't
teach by punishing.
Basically, when
you punish, you're
just demonstrating that
you're kind of out of control,
and you're just going to
inflict pain on your child.
So with discipline, what you're
really trying to do is use
an opportunity to
challenge them--
the kids won't get
out of the bathtub--
to actually teach them to
regulate their behavior.
So in that setting,
what I would do
is I would get down
to their level.
So instead of
hovering above them,
I would get down at their level.
And I would say, you guys,
you need to listen to me.
Your dinner's done.
I've given you two warnings.
It's now time to get out.
And I really don't want
to get all agitated
like I've done in the past.
I don't want to do that anymore.
You need to cooperate,
and look me in the eye.
They do, and out of
the bathtub they go.
Now, my wife and I
had been teaching
them what are called
mindsight skills anyway.
Where not in a moment
like that, but we
would talk to them
about their feelings,
their memories, the
way their thinking
was shaped by their
memories and their feelings.
And these are things you can
do in any of the books I write.
It's called, basically,
mindsight skills.
And the research
in attachment shows
that parents who actually teach
about the nature of the mind--
the formal research term
we use is reflective
function-- you teach about
the nature of the mind.
You are the teacher of
your child for the child
to be aware of this is what's
going on in my thinking.
This is what's going
on in my feeling.
And it's just like the
famous Stanford study,
you know, the marshmallow study.
You have a kid who's
given in marshmallow,
and you said, if you
can wait three minutes,
I'll give you two.
I'll give you another one so
you can take two home, right?
And then they studied
them decades later
and showed the ones who could
wait, did great in life.
The ones who couldn't wait,
didn't do great in life.
And that is directly related
to what you do in attachment.
When you teach your
child to be aware,
I have a feeling like I really
want to eat this marshmallow.
But you know something?
I'd rather have two than one.
I just need to wait two minutes.
Even if it's something
called self talk.
They go, I don't want
eat the marshmallow.
I'm not going eat
the marshmallow.
I'm not going to
have a marshmallow.
And they wait, or they sit
on their hands or whatever,
they're aware of an impulse.
From the Wheel of
Awareness point of view,
what you're doing, basically,
is teaching your child
there's a spaciousness
of awareness
between impulse and action.
And in that space--
as Rollo May said,
and Viktor Frankl
is often attributed this--
in that space is where growth
and development happen.
For children who
have parents who
aren't seeing their
mind, that's 20% of them,
they don't have this space.
They just eat the marshmallow.
And you're not creating this
mindsight ability to have,
basically, it's the basis
of social and emotional
intelligence.
So that's what you want to do
is teach a mindsight skill,
but start with yourself.
And that's the better way
to do the bathtub story.
And there are lots of stories.
In all of these books,
Tina Bryson and I,
in the other book, "Parenting
from the Inside Out,"
Mary Hartzell and
I, would always
put stuff, because
parenting, I think,
is the hardest job in the world.
It's really, really hard.
So at least we as parents
should know the science
about how what we do shapes
the brain of our child.
And to put it really
simply, you're
teaching mindsight
skills to your child.
So that even though it's
tough, the tough times
are the best times to
actually be teaching.
Not when you're
flipping your lid,
but realizing that what
you may think is a burden
is actually the
opportunity to learn.
And then now with a
25-year-old and 30-year-old,
I can tell you--
and that was
[? Alex Siegel, ?] his music
you were hearing earlier--
you can feel, when you
teach mindsight skills,
how your now adult
child is going
to take what you taught
them in the bathtub
and use it for social
and emotional thriving
in their life.
That's skill building.
You're a skill instructor.
And yeah, you may feel
like it's a burden,
and it is the hardest
job in the world.
But what an opportunity.
And you all have young
children I imagine,
so I'll just say this.
The days may feel short
because, you know--
I'm sorry.
The days may feel long.
It goes on and on forever.
But the years are short.
It goes by like that.
And when I think
about my two that
used to be little ones at home,
and I miss them like that.
But now when I see
what happens when
you use these techniques for
your attachment experiences
with your kid is they
develop all these skills.
It's skills of life.
Next question.
Yes?
AUDIENCE: You said that about
20% of parents are not present.
What is typically
the implications
of that for kids down the line?
DANIEL SIEGEL: Yeah.
So what the research shows
is that actually, it's
probably more like 35% to 45%
of parents are not present.
The 20% I was referring to is
one kind of not present, which
was they're just not focusing
on the inner life of the child.
So that's one form
of not present.
The other 15 or
more percent, those
are parents who
distort what they see.
So they're trying to see inside.
So an example would
be of that kind
would be, my daughter's
really hungry, let's say.
But I'm really
terrified that I won't
be able to feed her
well because I doubt
my competence as a parent.
And I don't know if I'm
going to do a good job.
And I'm really worried,
and maybe I can't do it.
So now I'm really scared and
nervous, and she's just hungry.
So I'm trying to see
what's going on with her,
but I really can't.
So I'm really trying.
I said she's hungry, and I
shove the bottle in her mouth
or whatever, and she's
like freaking out.
And you can only imagine,
she's just feeling hungry,
and I'm feeling terrified that
I'm not going to do a good job.
So there would be
another example
of it's not so much the
absence of me trying to see,
but I'm feeling my own stuff
that spills over in her.
Right?
So that would be
kind of also not
present in this
receptive way, but I'm
filled with another thing.
So that's where it gets to
be about 35% to 45% total.
So what happens, this last
book we've just finished
is called "The Power
of Showing Up."
And it's basically an extension
of "Parenting from the Inside
Out."
So that book is available.
But basically what
it does, and I
wrote a whole textbook on this
called "The Developing Mind"
where basically, there are three
kinds of outcomes of parents
not being present.
When they're present, about 55%
to 65%, depending on the study,
parents are present.
They have secure
attachment to their kids
who are attached
to them that way.
That's fine.
We've talked about that.
The three kinds of
absence, if you will,
and the opposite of
presence, are number one,
avoidant attachment which is the
first 20% we're talking about.
Those kids, as they
grow up, if this
is with their primary
caregiver, the key
features that they don't
have much awareness
of their internal world.
They don't have much
mindsight for the insight part
of mindsight.
They don't have much
awareness of another person's
internal world.
So if they're in a
romantic relationship,
it's usually very lonely
for their partner.
And so they don't have
much empathy, right?
And they don't
have this capacity
to go back in memory to recall
how their past influenced them.
It's quite amazing.
So as adults, when we do this
narrative analysis of them,
you get this thing called
a dismissing narrative.
They'll say things like,
relationships aren't important.
Give me the next question.
Hurry up.
Like this kind of thing.
And that's literally
20% of the population.
And that's their key feature--
don't remember the past.
And it doesn't look
like it's trauma.
It' looks like it's an absence
of emotional closeness.
And they don't have
much reflective ability,
meaning they're not
aware of their emotions
or even sometimes they're
bodily sensations.
It's quite remarkable, actually.
And as a therapist who's doing
work beyond the research,
it isn't just I do an
hour and a half interview.
I have these people
in therapy for years.
In a book called "Mindsight,"
for that example,
look at the chapter on Stuart
who came as a 90-year-old
with this history.
And then he did the
work as a 90-year-old
to change all these things
we're talking about.
So his wife called me up
and said, Dan, you know,
did you give Stuart
a brain transplant?
What happened to this guy?
You're her husband of
65 years, you know.
And it was just the
most amazing thing.
And it was all documented
and all this kind of stuff.
So read the "Mindset"
for these case examples.
The second kind of one
that's second in our order
but also in frequency is
called ambivalent attachment.
This is one where the parent
is intrusive or inconsistently
present, basically.
And there, what you see
is those kids, as they
grow into adolescence
and adulthood,
they have a lot of uncertainty.
There's a kind of, it isn't the
same as just, oh, I'm insecure.
It's more like in
a relational sense,
they may feel like other
people can't meet their needs,
or they have too many
needs, or something.
If the avoidant attachment
was a disconnection,
this ambivalent attachment
is more like a confusion.
Like, what am I feeling?
What are you feeling?
All this kind of stuff.
And so it can be really hard
for them internally like that.
So that's that group.
And then on top of
all that, there's now
the third kind of
not present which
is when parents are
terrifying to their kids,
and it isn't repaired.
So any of us can be terrifying.
Let's just put it out there.
And then you make a
repair, beautiful.
Repair, repair, repair.
So you don't need
to be freaking out.
Oh, my god.
But if you are doing things
that are terrifying your kid,
after today, take it to the next
step, and repair that terror.
So when there isn't
a repair, children
develop what's called a
disorganized attachment.
And this is the one
where they develop
something called
dissociation where
they have clinical
levels of fragmenting
the usual continuity
of consciousness.
At the extreme, they can
have one part of them
that doesn't talk
to another part that
doesn't talk to another part--
multiple personality, called
dissociative identity disorder.
That's the extreme.
But other variations of this
are I don't feel like I'm real.
I feel disconnected
from my body.
I don't remember stuff.
Those are all examples
of dissociation
that we have shown in
my field of attachment
research is an outcome of
these terrifying experiences.
And what comes along
with that is these kids
have a hard time
regulating their emotions
and a hard time having
rewarding, mutually rewarding
relationships with others.
And they, as I mentioned, under
stress, they can't reason well.
They kind of freak out.
So that's disorganized
attachment.
So those are the--
it's 35% to 45%
of the population,
non-clinical population.
So you're talking about--
what is that-- about 150 million
people in this country alone.
And the great news, just
to put it right out there,
about knowing this is that
if those people find out
that's where I'm at.
Like, if you read "Parenting
from the Inside Out,"
and you go, oh,
that's where I'm at,
the research shows that
if you take the time
to reflect on your past--
even as you'll see with Stuart,
who couldn't remember his past,
but we were able to access it--
when you reflect on the past
and make sense of that past,
you can actually integrate
your understanding,
literally taking
differentiated parts,
bringing them together
in what's called
a coherent narrative where
you feel what happened to you.
You realize there are longings
that were unfulfilled,
that you had not only
the experiences you had,
but the way you adapted to
it sometimes with shame,
a feeling that not
just like guilt where
you did something wrong.
You can correct it.
Shame is a feeling
like you are defective,
and there's nothing you can do.
And so usually, shame
goes underground but then
pops up in all sorts
of very strange ways.
Like being driven to be the
richest person in the world
or most famous person in the
world, the most powerful,
you know.
When you get people
like that in therapy,
you find, often, that shame
is actually the driving force.
Because no matter
how much they have,
they still feel like
they're defective,
and they keep on trying, trying,
trying, instead of dropping
into this receptive space
of saying, I have enough.
How can I actually help
other people have a lot?
And in the privacy
of therapy, I mean,
this is what people can open up
in a very tender and vulnerable
way to this very painful
emotional state of shame
which comes with a lot of these
insecure attachment forms.
Anyway, so with
disorganized attachment,
then whether it's that
or avoidant attachment,
which is called dismissing in
adults or the ambivalent which
is called entangled or
preoccupied for adults,
you can show that if
this person, as an adult,
takes the time to make
sense of their life,
they can go from these forms
of insecure adult attachment
to secure adult attachment.
This is the take-home
message from this whole talk,
is the reason I even
dive into this stuff
is because you as an adult have
the opportunity, now knowing
this, to take the
steps to make sense
of how the past influenced you,
make sense of the point where
you come with this
narrative that makes sense.
And I don't mean just
rationalizes away.
Making sense meaning you
sense it, you feel it.
And, as Stuart's wife said,
you can transform your brain
into this new way of being.
Ultimately, when people do a lot
of these domains of integration
I talk about in various
settings including mindsight,
when you do this, you start
becoming open to realizing,
wow, I'm not just
a noun that lives
in a body as a separate entity.
I am more like an
unfolding verb.
And I know that sounds weird.
But if you just
look at the cover
story of "Scientific American"
in July, 2018, what you find--
and I think this
is actually related
to the mental
experience we can have--
is that we have two
realms we live in.
One realm is the
Newtonian classical realm
of noun-like separate entities.
And there's a directionality of
change called an arrow of time.
But the other realm
that's equally real
is this quantum realm
that's been proven
but that just has different
mathematical properties where
things are not entities,
they're events.
Things are not
nouns, they're verbs.
Things are not separated,
they're deeply interconnected.
And what people, in my
therapeutic experience
and research experience, when
they move towards integrating
they're making-sense process,
the rigid noun-like definition
of a separate self
opens up to say, OK,
I get about 100 years
to live in this body.
But now, I'm realizing who I
am is more than just this body.
I am my relationships with
other people in my family,
in my neighborhood, in my
profession, my company,
in the larger world.
And I'm also related
to the planet, nature.
And that verb-like
set of unfoldings
where you realize what you
do is going to actually
have an impact way
beyond the years
when your body is
no longer here, you
and your love of people and
the planet will continue on.
And that's where MWe comes
from, this idea that we're
both an internal
noun like me and also
a relational verb like we.
And that would be an integrated
way of living as a MWe.
LAURA: Thank you so much.
DANIEL SIEGEL:
Thank you so much.
Thank you.
[APPLAUSE]
