We'll begin today with a conversation between
Richard Kurin, the Under
Secretary for History, Art, and Culture at
the Smithsonian Institution and Joseph Henry,
the
first Secretary of the Smithsonian Institution
who's with us today.
We're very fortunate to have him.
He comes courtesy of the artistry of Dwane
Starlin.
Please welcome them.
[Applause]
RICHARD KURIN: Thank you, thank you
Ray, thank you Tim.
It's great to be here this morning, and great
to welcome you all to the Smithsonian National
Museum of American Indian.
I'm about to bring onto stage Joseph
Henry.
For those of you who don't know Joseph Henry,
he was the first Secretary of the Smithsonian,
born in 1797 in upstate New York.
He wanted to be an actor at one time, but
was really self-taught.
Then he wanted to become an engineer.
He did experiments in electromagnetism.
He actually helped develop the electromagnetic
relays that lead to
Morse successfully developing the telegraph.
Harry went on to become a professor at Princeton.
He was instrumental in his studies of weather,
meteorology, really beginning the system of
weather buddies (although it wasn't called
that then).
His work lead to the development of the weather
maps, and eventually the National Weather
Service.
He was very important in the study of sun
spots.
He did a lot of work on the study of acoustics.
He encouraged a guy named Alexander Graham
Bell to do experiments that
led to the telephone.
Henry was really regarded as the foremost
scientist of the 19th Century.
He ended up being Abraham Lincoln's science
advisor during the Civil war.
He was one of the founding members of the
National Academy of Sciences and later its
President.
He was President of the Washington Philosophical
Society.
He was
President of the Association for the Advancement
of Science.
Henry was really a major figure.
Presiding over the Smithsonian from its beginning
to his death in 1878 really gave character
and shape to the Smithsonian Institution.
He was at the crossroads of many developments
of intellectual and scientific thought in
19th Century America.
Let
us welcome the first Secretary of the Smithsonian,
Joseph Henry.
[Applause]
JOSEPH HENRY: Well.
MR.
KURIN: A big welcome to you,
Secretary Henry.
Thank you for joining us today.
MR.
HENRY: Well, thank you very much Dr. Kurin.
It was a very complimentary introduction.
I appreciate that a great deal.
I also enjoyed Mr. Suarez's remarks.
Some very interesting points came to be.
MR.
KURIN: Well, today I want to ask you about
some of those questions.
You were the key interpreter of James Smithson's
will.
James Smithson who bequested his fortune to
the United States for an institution for the
increase and diffusion of knowledge.
Smithson really left no instructions directly
on what the subject matter would be, particularly
with regard to questions of human culture,
of race, of things like that.
So why did you
think, or did you think it appropriate for
the Smithsonian to get into the study and
the understanding of issues of history, ethnology,
race, and so on?
MR.
HENRY: Well, first of all, Mr. Smithson, as
everyone should be aware, had never visited
the United States.
Merely, as you said, left the bulk of his
estate with one reservation.
He had a nephew that had to pass away first
without any prodigy.
MR.
KURIN: Unfortunate he did, huh?
MR.
HENRY: The United States
absolutely.
But, that simple phrase gave me, and has given
many people a great deal of concern.
What does it mean to increase and diffuse
knowledge?
That was one of my first tasks when I accepted
the office in 1846, was the sit down what
I refer to as a programme de organization,
organization program, setting forth what I
felt was important.
My
statement was that we should stimulate all
branches of knowledge, regardless of how miniscule
they may be, we should not really have any
difference to one thing over the
other.
Everything should be part of the study that
we go along with.
One never knows when this knowledge will come
to fruition and will become, shall we say,
useful to everyone else.
MR.
KURIN: Well, in those early days, you did
specify the idea of the importance of studying
the history of American Indians.
You really did
sponsor and encourage a lot of early work.
Can you tell us about the work that the Smithsonian
did with regard to the native or indigenous
people of North America, as you phrased it?
MR.
HENRY: The American Indian had and has a remarkable
culture.
As you indicated it was a consideration of
the Smithsonian from early on, as early as
1951.
We were encouraging
studies of the American Indian.
One of our concerns was that the American
Indian, as far as the population and as well
as the culture was literally dying out.
We felt an urge and a
necessity to study this culture, to study
the people before it was too late, before
they no longer were able to be consulted.
How many times have we thought about ancestors
or about individuals from the past?
What was it like?
Why didn't I ask them the questions at the
time that they were live, whereas you have
to go out and do so afterwards.
I've always said
that the highest enjoyment of out safe demand
in this life is the discovery of new truths.
This is what we're looking toward and when
we're looking toward at the time.
As I said, again, quite early on, our first
annual report (which was part of my program)
was to every year publish information that
showed the results of our studies.
Our very
first report was entitled "Ancient Monuments
of the Mississippi Valley."
It was about the mounds left by the American
Indian cultures at the time.
We were quite interested in it.
We
also did a great deal to make America aware
of the image thorough actual portraits.
We commissioned individuals such as Charles
Bird King and John Mix Stanley and George
Catlin to record not just the physical appearance
of the American Indian, but their lifestyle.
MR.
KURIN: You sent folks around the country to
collect ceramics,
artifacts, and relics, as you call them.
You had some of those people like Dahl [phonetic],
Rahul [phonetic], and Kennicott, collecting
stuff.
MR.
HENRY: Yes, we had a lot of those young naturalists.
In fact, we housed them at the Smithsonian
Institution.
We permitted them to live with us when they
were "in town"
here at the capital city.
That enabled them to work on their collections.
Collecting is done in many parts.
There is the physical act of actually gathering,
but then
you bring your harvest back and then you have
to classify it, categorize it, and so forth.
Yes, we did encourage people.
I remember the young Mr. Kennicott, who unfortunately
passed away in Alaska I believe, but he was
with us for many years.
He was part of what we call the Megatherium
Society.
MR.
KURIN: You sponsored research,
early anthropologists like Lewis Henry Morgan.
MR.
HENRY: Correct.
MR.
KURIN: What was the goal of those kind of
studies?
I mean, were you looking at the origins of
languages, the origins of American Indians?
I mean, what was the goal of this research
program?
MR.
HENRY: All of it was actually
apparent.
Language was considered to be quite important,
the linguistic basis for it.
I encouraged several individuals if they could
create some sort of a dictionary or a chart
of
the commonality of the spoken word of the
American Indian in order for us to really
understand what was going forth.
Of course, all through that time we became
well aware of the evolutionary considerations.
Even before Mr. Darwin, we were concerning
ourselves with how they evolved, as you indicated,
from where they originated and what they did
once
they were here.
MR.
KURIN: Well, tell me, because in those early
years before Darwin (and I know we're talking
in 1878 at the end of your career) obviously
the issue of race was heavy on the minds of
Americans.
Thinking about the origins of different people
than Americans and Europeans and others were
coming into contact with.
So
what was your thinking?
What was the thinking of American scientists
at the time that you're Secretary of the Smithsonian?
How do we place?
How do we classify?
How do we think of
people?
What were you wrestling with, and what were
the people around?
You had Louie Agassiz on your regents at one
point.
MR.
HENRY: Right, he was on the Board of Regents.
Of course, he was an advocate of pluralism.
The big debate, even before Mr. Darwin was
monogenesis versus polygenesis.
Mr. Agassiz, as you indicated, was of the
thought that there was more than one race,
and there was more than one origin.
So it was not just the Adam and Eve, which
was of biblical consideration prior to Mr.
Darwin, which is actually in some ways expanded
upon.
It was just a different interpretation of
who Adam and Eve were.
Mr. Agassiz was very much of the opinion that
there were
distinct races, and that they had no connection
one with the other.
MR.
KURIN: So there were separate races of creation,
so Africans were different people.
People in the
orient, Chinese and so on, Asians, were a
different race of people.
Anglo-Saxons were a different race of people.
MR.
HENRY: That was his opinion, and the opinion
of several individuals along the way.
Even when broached with the subject of commonality,
the same use of a tool such as a hammer or
an axe, was considered to be just
a coincidence.
One race arrived at the use of this instrument
at a similar time, but there was no connection.
MR.
KURIN: How did Darwin change that?
MR.
HENRY: Well, obviously, Mr. Darwin's statement
was evolution of the species.
So it was just not mankind.
It was all of God's
creatures, all of the creatures on earth.
He followed it from the one cell up to the
very sophisticated, very complicated human
being that we have at this time.
MR.
KURIN: So Morgan and others taking that influence
from, I think, Darwin and Spencer as well,
developed a scheme of the classification and
development of culture.
MR.
HENRY: Yes.
Again, to enlarge upon the use of the term
evolution.
Not only was there an evolution of the species,
but there was a social evolution within civilizations.
There was a general feeling that there was
a three-step characterization of civilization.
There was savagery, barbarism, and then finally
civilization as it was.
That's how the races sometimes came into conflict,
and that's one of the things going back to
talking about the American Indian, was happening
to the American Indian.
They were being
confronted with the Anglo-Saxon race, which
was more civilized.
As a consequence, civilization was winning.
MR.
KURIN: Obviously one of the
trying periods of thinking about this notion
of different people in the United States came
to the fore with the Civil War.
You were sitting really in the hot seat with
regard to that, in terms of thinking about
issues of conflict in the U.S., of African
Americans, slavery, abolition, and so on.
Can you tell me about how issues of thinking
about
race become implicated with your tenure at
the Smithsonian?
MR.
HENRY: First of all, I continue to be amazed
at the use of the term "Civil War."
We did not call it the Civil War during that
particular time.
It was a very dark time.
I frequently referred to it as a fratricidal
war, brother against brother, race against
race.
As a
consequence, it was a difficult time.
I was very close to the President.
He had appointed me, I think you indicated
in your introduction, as one of his science
advisors.
I
consulted with him on weaponry, the use of
the hot-air balloon, and communication in
general, particularly the telegraph, which
I was fortunate enough in days earlier to
do some of the background investigation for.
The Smithsonian Institution did not take sides
during this war.
We flew neither the Union nor the Confederate
flag at the
Institution during the entire conflict along
the way.
We opened our doors to all of the inhabitants
of the globe regardless of where they came
from.
There were so many indications or barriers
along the way.
You've heard of the Dred Scott case.
The presiding judge and the majority opinion
was written by Roger Taney, who was the Chief
Justice of
the Supreme Court as well as the Chancellor
of the Smithsonian.
That case held that a freed black person was
not freed if they happened to be pursued by
someone who wanted to
arrest them and return them to slavery, they
could do so.
So these were the incidents that were going
through at that time.
In addition, as I said, the dark times financially,
an uncertainty.
We had no idea what was going to happen.
The southern states withdrew their support,
including of the Smithsonian.
We'd invested in state
bonds of such states as Virginia and Georgia,
and they defaulted on them.
As a consequence, we were unable to meet some
of our financial obligations.
I remember writing my brother-in-law, Mr.
Alexander, stating that if things were not
resolved quickly I would be forced to either
charge admission to the Smithsonian or perhaps
dismiss some
of our employees and go with contract labor
in order to make up the shortfall.
Very dark times, and again, I was of mixed
emotions because the President of the
Confederacy was Jefferson Davis who was a
Board of Regent when he was Secretary of War
under Franklin Pierce.
MR.
KURIN: And in support of your research program.
MR.
HENRY: He was a very close supporter of our
research program, correct.
MR.
KURIN: So what did you think of
African Americans at this time of, as you
say, fratricidal war?
How did you think of the issue of a race and
the construction?
Were you for abolition?
What did you think would happen?
MR.
HENRY: I believed, at the time, that the Negro
would perish similar to what was going to
happen to the American Indian.
I felt that, again,
in this evolutionary consideration, socially,
that the Anglo-Saxon race was a more civilized
institution, and they were forcing themselves
upon the Negro population.
Unless and until
that race could built itself up to equality,
they would be submitted to the sublimation
that we're talking about.
MR.
KURIN: You and Lincoln worked on a scheme
didn't you?
MR.
HENRY: Exactly.
It was called relocation.
One of the places that we thought would be
best suited for that would be the country
of Columbia
in South America.
They had a rather ample supply of coal.
It was hoped that, I believe a term that's
used was that the Negro could be re-patronized
to Columbia and actually start the mining
of this coal.
This would give them the financial basis to
become a higher civilization.
However, I had to reject that plan, and made
that recommendation to
President Lincoln, because the coal was not
of such nature or composition that it would
be adequate to be exported.
MR.
KURIN: Then people would
basically go back to Africa, to Liberia?
MR.
HENRY: That was then the subsequent statement,
was to send the freed slaves back to Africa
where they would assimilate themselves into
that population.
MR.
KURIN: I want to ask you about a series in
1861 and through the spring of 1862, or for
the winter as well,
early months of 1862, the Washington Lecture
Association came to you.
Basically this was a group of abolitionists
who wanted to use the Smithsonian auditorium
which sat 2,000 people.
You had designed it as sonically and acoustically
wonderfully.
This was the best auditorium in Washington.
They wanted to hold a series of
abolitionist lectures during that time.
They wanted to force the President, Abraham
Lincoln to agree to emancipation.
How did you feel about that episode?
MR.
HENRY: Well, Dr. Kurin, there's a great deal
of difference of what should be done and what
is done along the way.
I think the primary difficulty was politics.
I have never desired to be involved in politics.
In fact, that has been an area that I have
stayed away from.
I've lived so long in Washington that I am
not in favor and do not hold in
high regard partisan politics.
I have always tried to lift the Smithsonian
Institution above that.
I feel that we must be isolated or insulated
against the political process along the way
in order to be a fair and objective institution.
When these lectures became obviously very
political - - . I encouraged them to, first
of all, announce,
which they did at their actual lectures that
this was not being endorsed by the Smithsonian
Institution.
MR.
KURIN: This was Horace Greely
and Ralph Waldo Emerson.
Really important abolitionists of the period
who had - - the President who actually attended
and sat on stage.
In April 1862 they announced that he last
speaker of the series, the culminating speaker
of the series would be Frederick Douglas,
the great orator.
You said, "I will not allow a black man to
speak in the rooms of
the Smithsonian."
Why was that?
MR.
HENRY: Isn't it interesting how something
is taken partially out of context and sounds
like such a vicious statement?
My position was that Mr. Douglas' speech would
be definitely very political, and as a consequence
taking sides during this fratricidal war that
we were discussing.
As a consequence, I felt
it would be in cindering.
There is some irony there that I'm sure you're
aware of, because speaking of in cinerary,
less than three years later, that auditorium
was demolished
by a tremendous fire in January of 1865.
MR.
KURIN: It strikes me as ironic in some ways,
maybe even paradoxical, because your longest
serving, probably most loyal employee at the
Smithsonian at the time was a fellow named
Solomon Brown.
You'd worked with Solomon Brown before the
Smithsonian when you were laying
telegraph wire between Baltimore and Washington.
Solomon Brown, a distinguished African American
who did so much for the Smithsonian.
He went on to serve the Institution for 54
years.
How do you separate out your attitude toward,
as you call it, the "negro race" from your
relationship with one of your closest, most
loyal employees who
worked with you every day, who did speak in
the rooms of the Smithsonian?
MR.
HENRY: I think it's actually an extension
of what I've just said.
Here was a gentleman that had risen above
and was actually becoming civilized.
Via that particular approach was showing himself
to be equal along the way.
I had never said that I was against the Negro
race.
MR.
KURIN: After the Civil War, the notion of
the National Museum picked up quite a lot.
You even had
attendants at the Smithsonian Castle during
the Civil War, with all sorts of people coming
in to see the exhibitions.
What did you think about the whole notion
of museums?
Do you think the Smithsonian should be called
a museum?
MR.
HENRY: I felt there was nothing wrong to view,
or have on view items or collections.
But, I felt that one
of the biggest problems was whether you were
presenting something merely for curiosity
as opposed to legitimate study along the way.
There was the question of money, the
question of cost.
As you are well aware, the original bequest
by James Smithson was partially consumed almost
50%, almost have of that bequest went to the
building of the Smithsonian Institution itself.
A 12th Century building in the 19th Century,
and possibly not the finest use it could be
along the way.
Also, there had been a long history of, as
I read recently, a dreary train of museums
that has preceded this particular display.
Let's see, there was the Institution of United
States Military Philosophical Society.
There was the Columbia Society.
There was the Metropolitan Society.
There was the National Institute, which was
formed by Mr. Poinseg [phonetic] in anticipation
of
receiving the monies from Mr. Smithson.
Again, the problem was one can collect, but
there is also the expense and the time consumption
of maintaining this collection in a
valid presentation.
MR.
KURIN: Your Assistant Secretary, Mr. Baird,
of course, he kind of liked museums.
After that fire you spoke of in 1865, you
gave him permission to use the upper floors
of the castle as a museum.
MR.
HENRY: I did.
MR.
KURIN: Thus getting rid of the lecture hall
and a prospect of future
political controversy, I might add.
In '76 we had the centennial exhibit of the
United States in Philadelphia.
You were very much involved, and the Smithsonian
was very much involved in putting that together
with the government of the United States,
a display of accomplishments.
I recall that Baird came up with the idea
of not only displaying the American
Indian artifacts that had been collected by
the Smithsonian during your tenure, but also
wanted living American Indians in Philadelphia
at the 1876 exhibition.
What happened
with that?
MR.
HENRY: Well, ironically I was not opposed
to that particular approach.
The stumbling block was the United States
congress.
They would not make available the necessary
funds to actually bring such an abidance [phonetic]
to the Centennial Exposition in Philadelphia.
So, as a consequence
we were unable to carry through on that.
I bear no responsibility for the failure of
that particular mission.
Actually, inadvertently, I began the now custom
of more museums or other museums in more buildings
because all of the items that we had on display
in Philadelphia we had to do something with.
So it became necessary to build what I preceded
in
death, but the arts and industry building.
MR.
KURIN: I know with Baird, with the proposal
to congress for the participation of living
American
Indians, the idea was to have American Indians
that spoke English, that were cleaned up,
and that would come with even dogs or ponies.
Was that to show American Indians as civilized?
When congress refused to fund that, Mr. Baird
then sent mannequins to be Indians.
MR.
HENRY: Exactly.
[Laughter]
MR.
HENRY: I cannot really address it any further
than just say that's exactly what happened.
There was an effort to placate the United
States congress.
Obviously they would not be representing the
American Indian in their true fashion, but
even that refreshed position was not deemed
adequate.
MR.
KURIN: As a result, as you note
of the 1876 exhibition, all those artifacts
from Philadelphia came in, I don't know, four
dozen train loads back to Washington to a
new building that you had gotten started on,
the
National Museum building that people were
later to call the Arts and Industries building.
There was a scheme or the plan for how to
exhibit and display everything the Smithsonian
had in that one museum, including human beings.
Any thoughts on the rationale of that?
Did you think it was necessary to separate
out American Indians in a particular
museum, or African Americans, or Asians?
You had everything in that one building.
What was the logic for that?
Was there logic?
MR.
HENRY: I certainly hope so.
I feel that there was some logic to it, but
again, the different races was not a consideration,
as I stated early, that we were trying to
stimulate all branches of science,
all branches of knowledge.
The best way to do that would be by the categorical
considerations.
There were some new types of science coming
in that I'm sure you're quite aware
of.
Anthropology was on its forefront at that
particular time.
It did not exist, and I've read your biography
that this is apparently somewhat of an important
part of your life, on that.
[Laughter]
MR.
KURIN: Yes, it is.
In that plan for the Arts and Industries building,
I note that the center section, given
that the whole thing was a square, was American
history, and that was somewhat separated from
Native American life and life in the other
parts of the world.
Were American Indians, African Americans,
and others being inadvertently cut off from
the story of American history?
Were they part of nature or previous time?
MR.
HENRY: Again, the Anglo-Saxon race was the
predominate race at the time.
There was no suggestion that we were eliminating
anything else.
It was just a matter of what was
happening.
I believe that actually that's continued on
through the years.
After the Arts and Industry building, what
was the next building that was built, sir?
MR.
KURIN: Well the National Museum across the
way.
MR.
HENRY: Yes, so I see nothing that would be
different in that consideration.
The one thing that I
would like to caution, and I feel like possibly
we're coming to a close here, is to rush into
construction of many different institutions.
I think one of the terms is brick and mortar?
If you have more brick and mortar buildings,
because as always happens there frequently
is a new concept right around the corner that
may be better.
Someone has advised me that
certain experiments that I did in the 19th
Century, electromagnetism, have possibly begot
something called "the web"?
[Laughter]
MR.
HENRY: I understand that the web, in many
ways, is yet another building.
It has the need for all of the supervision
and expenses that would go along with a physical
building such as this, employees and so on.
MR.
KURIN: Well, I think you'd enjoy it.
As someone who developed the telegraph, I
think you'd really enjoy
the web and the blackberry devices today.
[Laughter]
MR.
KURIN: Professor Henry, thank you very much
for a very engaging conversation.
We appreciate you coming here from across
the century.
Thank you very much.
MR.
HENRY: Thank you.
I really want to say that I would like to
have you
all realize that the Smithsonian is not for
just a day.
We have designed it to endure for as long
as our government shall exist.
MR.
KURIN: Thank you.
MR.
HENRY: Thank you Dr. Kurin.
MR.
KURIN: Thank you.
[Applause]
