[ MUSIC ]
>> HELLO, AND WELCOME
TO TALKING POINTS.
I'M DAVE KELLY, DIRECTOR OF
ADVANCED MEDIA PRODUCTION
AT CAL STATE LONG BEACH.
TODAY, WE'LL BE TALKING
ABOUT SHARKS, AND ROBOTS,
AND THE RECOVERY OF
MARINE ECOSYSTEMS ALONG
CALIFORNIA'S COASTLINE.
MY GUEST TODAY IS
DR. CHRIS LOWE.
DR. LOWE IS PROFESSOR
OF MARINE BIOLOGY.
WELCOME, CHRIS, AND THANK YOU
FOR JOINING US ON
TALKING POINTS.
>> THANKS FOR HAVING ME.
>> LET'S START THE CONVERSATION
BY SHARING SOME GOOD NEWS
WITH OUR VIEWERS, BECAUSE MANY
OF OUR VIEWERS MAY NOT REALIZE
THAT THERE IS SOME GOOD
NEWS TO TALK ABOUT IN TERMS
OF OUR MARINE ENVIRONMENT.
TELL US ABOUT THAT,
IF YOU WOULD.
>> WELL, I THINK WE HAVE
SOME EVIDENCE TO SHOW
THAT THINGS ARE GETTING BETTER.
AND AFTER ALL THE EFFORT
THAT WE'VE PUT IN TO REGULATE
AND CLEAN UP THE ENVIRONMENT,
I THINK WE'RE SEEING SIGNS
THAT THAT'S HAPPENING.
AND THE CANARY THAT I
USE IS A WHITE SHARK.
THAT'S OUR CANARY
FOR THIS COAL MINE,
AND IN THIS PARTICULAR CASE,
WE'RE SEEING WHAT WE THINK
IS ECOSYSTEM RECOVERY
BECAUSE OUR BIG PREDATORS
ARE COMING BACK.
>> AND YOU DO SPEND A LOT
OF TIME STUDYING SHARKS --
WE'LL GET BACK TO THAT
IN JUST A MOMENT --
BUT FIRST, I WANT TO TALK ABOUT
WHY THE ECOSYSTEM IS IMPROVING,
AND ONE OF THE REASONS IS
BECAUSE THE WATER
QUALITY ITSELF,
THE OCEAN WATER ALONG THE COAST,
HAS IMPROVED SIGNIFICANTLY
OVER THE LAST 40 YEARS,
AND I THINK WE CAN POINT
TO A WATERSHED EVENT --
AND I MEAN THAT LITERALLY
AND FIGURATIVELY -- IN THIS CASE
WAS THE CLEAN WATER ACT OF 1970.
TELL US ABOUT THAT.
>> WELL, YOU'VE GOT TO REMEMBER
ALONG COASTAL CALIFORNIA,
OUR POPULATIONS HAVE BEEN
INCREASING EXPONENTIALLY,
AND IT WAS REALLY THE '40S,
'50S AND '60S THAT WE SAW SOME
OF THE GREATEST DEVELOPMENT
ALONG OUR COASTLINE.
AT THAT TIME, ALL THESE PEOPLE
LIVING ALONG THE COASTLINE WERE
GOING TO THE BATHROOM EVERY DAY,
AND THAT WAS GETTING
DISCHARGED STRAIGHT OFFSHORE.
RAW SEWAGE WAS LITERALLY BEING
DUMPED OFF OUR COASTLINE,
AND WE SAW SOME OF OUR WORST
WATER QUALITY IN THE '60S
AND '70S, AND THAT WAS REALLY
WHAT DROVE THE CLEAN WATER ACT
AT A NATIONAL LEVEL.
SO AS A RESULT OF
THIS MASSIVE INCREASE
IN HUMAN POPULATION
ALONG OUR COASTLINE --
THAT WATER POLLUTION THAT WAS
NOT JUST COMING FROM RESIDENTS,
BUT ALSO INDUSTRY THAT WAS
GROWING IN CALIFORNIA --
BECAME A MAJOR PROBLEM.
WE HAD VERY POLLUTED
COASTLINE, WE HAD A LOT
OF CONTAMINANTS GOING INTO
THE WATER, POLLUTANTS GOING
INTO THE WATER, AND
WE WERE BEGINNING
TO SEE DRAMATIC EFFECTS
ON THE MARINE COMMUNITIES.
SO THAT WAS A CATALYST
THAT REALLY SPURRED THE CLEAN
WATER ACT IN WASHINGTON.
SINCE THEN, CALIFORNIA
POPULATIONS CONTINUE TO RISE,
YET WE HAVE SOME OF
THE BEST WATER QUALITY
THAT YOU CAN FIND
ANYWHERE IN THE WORLD.
ALMOST ALL OF OUR WASTEWATER
TREATMENT NOW IS SECONDARY,
AND IN SOME CASES, TERTIARY
TREATMENT, SO WE'RE PUTTING
OUT WATER THAT'S ACTUALLY
CLEANER THAN WHAT WE'RE TAKING
IN FROM THE ENVIRONMENT,
WHICH IS VERY IMPRESSIVE
WITH A GROWING HUMAN POPULATION.
SO ANIMAL COMMUNITIES
ARE GREATLY AFFECTED
BY WATER QUALITY.
THE AMOUNT OF SUNLIGHT THAT
PENETRATES THERE IS GOING
TO DICTATE HOW MUCH
PLANKTON CAN GROW,
AND THAT'S THE BASIS
OF THE FOOD WEB.
SO CLEANING UP THE WATER
IS ONE OF THE KEY FACTORS
THAT HAS ENABLED
MARINE COMMUNITIES
AND PREDATORS TO COME BACK.
>> WHICH IS THE SECOND
POINT I WANTED TO MAKE.
IN ADDITION TO THE QUALITY
OF THE WATER IMPROVING
SIGNIFICANTLY,
ALSO SOME OF THE PREDATOR
POPULATIONS AND SOME
OF THE SPECIES THAT WE THOUGHT
MIGHT BE ENDANGERED ACTUALLY ARE
STARTING TO COME BACK.
>> YEAH, WE HAD A LOT
OF ANIMAL POPULATIONS
THAT WERE DRAMATICALLY AFFECTED
-- NOT JUST BY POLLUTION,
BUT BY OVERFISHING,
HUNTING, THINGS LIKE THAT.
PROBABLY THE BEST EXAMPLES
ARE MARINE MAMMALS.
AT THE LATE 1800S, EARLY 1900S,
MARINE MAMMAL POPULATIONS WERE
HUNTED TO VIRTUAL EXTINCTION --
I MEAN, THERE ARE
MANY POPULATIONS
THAT IT WAS THOUGHT THEY
WOULD NOT BE ABLE TO RECOVER
FROM THAT KIND OF PRESSURE,
AND THE MARINE MAMMAL PROTECTION
ACT WAS PASSED IN 1973.
AND SINCE 1973, WE'VE SEEN MOST
OF OUR MARINE MAMMAL POPULATIONS
IN CONTINENTAL US INCREASE,
AND NOW TO THE POINT
WHERE SOME PEOPLE
ARE A LITTLE WORRIED
THAT THEY'VE ACTUALLY
OVERPOPULATED.
PROBABLY ONE OF THE
BEST EXAMPLES
THAT I CAN GIVE IS THE
CALIFORNIA SEA LION POPULATION.
IN 1920, BIOLOGISTS ESTIMATED
THAT THERE WERE AS FEW
AS 2,000 CALIFORNIA SEA LIONS
IN ALL OF CALIFORNIA AND BAJA.
THEY HAD BEEN LITERALLY
HUNTED TO THE POINT
WHERE BIOLOGISTS THOUGHT THEY
WERE GOING TO GO EXTINCT.
AND THEN OF COURSE,
FISHERMEN, IF THEY SAW THEM,
THEY WOULD SHOOT THEM.
THEY LOOKED AT THEM
AS COMPETITORS,
THEY ATE THE SAME THINGS
WE WERE FISHING FOR,
SO ANY TIME A FISHERMAN SAW A
SEA LION, THEY'D JUST KILL THEM.
SINCE THE '70S, SEA LION
POPULATIONS HAVE BEEN STEADILY
INCREASING, BUT THE MOST MARKED
THING WAS IN THE '90S, MID-'90S,
WHEN THE MAGNUSON-STEVENS
ACT PASSED.
THAT REALLY REQUIRED FISHERIES
TO CLEAN UP THEIR ACTS.
THEY COULD NO LONGER KILL
MARINE MAMMALS AS BYCATCH --
IT WASN'T INTENTIONAL;
IT WAS BYCATCH.
BUT SINCE THEN, CALIFORNIA
SEA LIONS HAVE SKYROCKETED.
IT IS NOW ESTIMATED THAT THERE
ARE 470,000 CALIFORNIA SEA LIONS
IN CALIFORNIA AND BAJA NOW.
A POPULATION THAT WAS THOUGHT
TO ABSOLUTELY BE ON ITS WAY
TO EXTINCTION HAS
COMPLETELY RECOVERED.
SOME PEOPLE EVEN PROJECT THAT
THERE ARE MORE SEA LIONS NOW
THAN THERE WERE PRIOR
TO HUMAN HUNTING.
>> THAT'S AMAZING, IT SHOWS THAT
SPECIES CAN COME BACK AS LONG
AS THERE'S SOMETHING
LEFT TO WORK WITH.
LET'S TALK ABOUT GILL NETTING.
WE'VE PASSED SOME
LEGISLATION IN CALIFORNIA
AND HAVE SOME VERY TIGHT
REGULATIONS ABOUT GILLNETTING.
EXPLAIN FOR OUR VIEWERS WHAT
GILLNETTING ACTUALLY IS,
AND WHY HAS THE BANNING
OF GILLNETTING HELPED BRING
BACK THE FISH POPULATION?
>> WELL, YOU KNOW, THE
HISTORY OF COMMERCIAL FISHING
IN CALIFORNIA IS
A PROMINENT ONE.
IN FACT, SOUTHERN
CALIFORNIA WAS LARGELY BASED
ON COMMERCIAL FISHING.
WE'VE SAW A LOSS OF
MOST OF THAT COMMUNITY.
BUT PROBABLY THE MOST MARKED
COMMERCIAL FISHERY THAT GREW
AND DEVELOPED IN CALIFORNIA
WAS THE GILLNET FISHERY,
WHICH STARTED IN ABOUT THE
MID-'70S, AND IT EXPLODED
WITH THE ADVENT OF MONOFILAMENT.
SO IMAGINE A NET THAT'S MADE
OUT OF THIS CLEAR PLASTIC,
THAT WHEN YOU PUT IN THE
WATER TURNS INVISIBLE.
THE IDEA IS THAT FISH SWIM INTO
THE NET AND THEY GET CAUGHT
AROUND THEIR GILLS,
HENCE THE NAME "GILLNET,"
AND THEY'RE JUST
STUCK IN THE NET.
THEY CAN'T BACK OUT.
THIS BECAME A REALLY EFFECTIVE
AND RAPIDLY GROWN FISHERY
IN SOUTHERN CALIFORNIA
IN PARTICULAR,
AND THERE WERE THOUSANDS
OF BOATS THAT HAD PERMITS
TO COMMERCIALLY GILLNET FISH.
AND YOU CAN DO IT OUT OF
A FAIRLY SMALL VESSEL.
SO THAT FLEET GREW FROM THE
LATE '70S THROUGH THE MID-'90S,
LARGELY UNCONTROLLED,
AND IT BECAME A VERY LUCRATIVE
THING TO DO IN CALIFORNIA.
BUT AS A RESULT OF DECLINING
CATCH OF THE TARGET SPECIES --
LIKE WHITE SEA BASS
AND CALIFORNIA HALIBUT,
THINGS THAT PEOPLE LIKE TO EAT,
AND IN ADDITION, HUGE BYCATCH
OF MARINE MAMMALS AND BIRDS --
THAT THAT FISHERY
BECAME HEAVILY REGULATED.
SO IN COASTAL CALIFORNIA,
IT BECAME SO BAD
THAT IT WAS A STATE
REFERENDUM --
AND THE TAXPAYERS ACTUALLY
GET TO VOTE ON THIS --
AND IT WAS BANNED, GILLNETTING
IN SHORE, IN STATE WATERS
UP TO THREE NAUTICAL
MILES WAS BANNED IN 1994.
>> AND AS A RESULT, WE'VE SEEN
THE FISH POPULATION COME BACK.
>> SO ONCE YOU BAN THE USE
OF THAT GILLNET FISHERY,
THAT FISHERY IS GREATLY REDUCED.
GILLNETTING STILL
EXISTS, THERE ARE FISHERS
THAT ARE STILL DOING IT, AND IT
IS A POPULAR FORM OF FISHING.
AND SINCE THEN, WE'VE
SEEN MANY OF THE SPECIES
THAT WERE BEING AFFECTED
BY THAT FISHERY COME BACK.
SO CALIFORNIA SEA LIONS
IS A GREAT EXAMPLE; BIRDS,
PELICANS WERE BEING
CAUGHT IN THAT FISHERY,
A BUNCH OF COASTAL
SHARKS, LEOPARD SHARKS,
SOUPFIN SHARKS, ANGEL SHARKS.
ALL THOSE POPULATIONS
HAVE BEEN COMING BACK --
BLACK SEA BASS, WHICH ARE,
YOU KNOW, ALMOST ON THE VERGE
OF EXTINCTION IN THE '50S,
HAVE COME BACK SINCE THEN.
SO THERE ARE MANY OF THESE
POPULATIONS OF COASTAL SPECIES
THAT WERE CAUGHT AS
BYCATCH IN THAT FISHERY
THAT ARE SHOWING GREAT
SIGNS OF RECOVERY
SINCE THE BANNING JUST IN 1994.
>> LET'S TALK ABOUT SHARKS.
YOU'VE SPENT A GREAT DEAL OF
YOUR RESEARCH FOCUSED ON SHARKS,
AND I KNOW THAT YOUR MENTOR,
DR. DON NELSON, WAS A PIONEER
IN THIS EFFORT, AND YOU'VE
CARRIED ON WITH HIS LEGACY.
FIRST, TELL US A LITTLE
BIT ABOUT DON NELSON
AND WHAT HIS CONTRIBUTION WAS
TO THE AREA OF SHARK RESEARCH.
>> WELL, YOU KNOW
DON WAS A PIONEER.
HE WAS A WORLDWIDE, YOU KNOW,
EXPERT IN SHARK BEHAVIOR,
AND THAT WAS SOMETHING
THAT WAS UNIQUE.
SO I WAS REALLY EXCITED TO
HAVE THE OPPORTUNITY TO TRAIN
WITH DON, GET MY MASTER'S
DEGREE WORKING IN DON'S LAB,
AND I LEARNED A LOT
ABOUT SOME OF THE TOOLS
THAT DON HAD HELPED PIONEER.
SO AS HIS INTEREST IN STUDYING
SHARK BEHAVIOR, YOU KNOW,
YOU HAD VERY FEW CHOICES
BACK IN THOSE DAYS.
YOU COULD TRY TO DIVE WITH
THEM, WHICH DON LOVED TO DO,
BUT IT GAVE YOU A REALLY LIMITED
VIEW OF WHAT SHARKS ACTUALLY DO
BECAUSE YOU COULDN'T STAY
UNDERWATER LONG ENOUGH,
OR YOU COULDN'T SEE
THEM AT NIGHT,
AND THEY MOVE GREAT DISTANCES.
SO DON STARTED USING A
TECHNOLOGY CALLED ACOUSTIC
TELEMETRY AS A KIND OF A SPY
TECHNOLOGY TO SPY ON SHARKS
AND SEE WHERE THEY GO.
AND AT THE TIME, HE ACTUALLY HAD
TO MAKE HIS OWN TRANSMITTERS.
SO WE USED THAT TECHNOLOGY --
WE CUT THE TEETH ON THAT
TECHNOLOGY, SO TO SPEAK --
AT CAL STATE LONG BEACH.
IT WAS ONE OF THE
FIRST LABS TO USE THIS,
AND IT WAS EXCITING
TO BE A PART OF THAT.
>> AND WE'RE TALKING NOW
ABOUT TAGGING SHARKS,
AND WE HAVE A VIDEO CLIP
WHERE YOU'RE ACTUALLY USING
UNDERWATER ROBOTS TO TRY
TO IDENTIFY WHERE SHARKS
ARE THAT HAVE BEEN TAGGED.
TELL US A LITTLE ABOUT THIS
CLIP BEFORE WE ROLL IT.
>> SO WE'RE REALLY
INTERESTED IN WHAT A LOT
OF THESE COASTAL SHARKS
DO, AND BELIEVE IT OR NOT,
EVEN THOUGH THEY'RE SO
ABUNDANT AND SO COMMON,
WE JUST HAVEN'T HAD THE
TOOLS TO PROPERLY STUDY THEM.
AND NOW WHAT'S HAPPENED OVER
THE LAST 20 YEARS IS THE
TECHNOLOGY'S GOTTEN
BETTER AND BETTER --
IN FACT, WE NOW HAVE AUTONOMOUS
TOOLS THAT WE CAN USE TO GO OUT
AND FOLLOW THESE SHARKS,
AND THEY CAN DO IT BETTER
THAN WE CAN AND MORE
STEALTHFULLY THAN WE CAN.
SO WE'RE REALLY EXCITED ABOUT
USING THIS NEW TECHNOLOGY
TO DO SOMETHING WE HAVE
NEVER BEEN ABLE TO DO BEFORE.
>> OKAY, LET'S TAKE A LOOK
AT THIS VIDEO CLIP WITH CHRIS
AND HIS TEAM OUT LOOKING
FOR SHARKS USING ROBOTS.
>> WHEN I FIRST STARTED
TRACKING SHARKS,
THE WAY WE WOULD DO IT IS WE'D
PUT A TRANSMITTER ON A SHARK
AND WE'D HAVE TO FOLLOW
IT AROUND FROM A BOAT,
AND THEN HOPEFULLY HAVE
TIME TO TAKE A QUICK SENSOR
THAT WE COULD MEASURE THE WATER
TEMPERATURE AT DIFFERENT DEPTHS.
BUT WE COULDN'T DO THAT
AND TRACK THE SHARK
AT THE SAME TIME.
AND IN ADDITION, WE DIDN'T HAVE
GPS AND A LOT OF THIS TECHNOLOGY
WHEN I FIRST STARTED
TRACKING SHARKS.
SO AT THE TIME, IT WAS
JUST FOLLOW AN ANIMAL
AND SEE WHERE IT WENT.
AND THAT WAS GREAT, BUT NOW WE
HAVE SO MANY OTHER QUESTIONS
THAT WE REALLY WANT TO ANSWER,
AND ALL THE TECHNOLOGY
IS NOW FINALLY AVAILABLE.
THE ROBOTS ARE GOING TO ENABLE
US TO PULL ALL THAT TOGETHER.
WHAT USED TO TAKE A TEAM OF
BIOLOGISTS IN A SHIP WE CAN DO
WITH TWO ROBOTS AND A GROUP
OF STUDENTS IN A SMALL BOAT.
THE ROBOTS ARE GOING TO
CHANGE THE WAY WE STUDY SHARKS
BECAUSE THEY'RE GOING TO ENABLE
US TO DO MORE THINGS AT ONCE.
THEY'RE GOING TO ENABLE US TO
NOT ONLY CHARACTERIZE THAT WATER
THAT THE SHARK IS MOVING THROUGH
AND WHAT THE SEA FLOOR IS LIKE,
BUT WE'RE GOING TO BE
ABLE TO PUT THAT TOGETHER
WITH THE ANIMAL'S BEHAVIOR,
AND WE'VE NEVER BEEN
ABLE TO DO THAT BEFORE.
MY DREAM IS TO HAVE A FLEET
OF THESE ROBOTS THAT ARE
OUT SCOURING THE COAST,
LISTENING FOR TAGGED FISH
AND SHARKS AND MEASURING
THE WATER COLUMN
AND THEN BEAMING ALL
THAT BACK TO THE LAB.
FUTURE MARINE BIOLOGY
GRADUATE STUDENTS WHO ARE GOING
TO BE COMPUTER EXPERTS AS
WELL AS MARINE BIOLOGISTS.
AND THAT'S THE DIRECTION
WE NEED TO MOVE.
>> CHRIS, YOU TOLD
US IN THAT CLIP
THAT FUTURE MARINE BIOLOGISTS
WILL ALSO BE COMPUTER ENGINEERS
OR COMPUTER SCIENTISTS.
WHERE IS THIS RESEARCH
GOING IN THE FUTURE?
>> WELL, I THINK WHAT'S GOING
TO HAPPEN IS THIS
TECHNOLOGY IS GETTING CHEAPER,
IT'S GETTING SMALLER, AND
IT'S GETTING IN THE HANDS
OF EVEN COMMUNITY COLLEGES.
SO THE GREAT THING ABOUT
THIS TECHNOLOGY IS,
NOT ONLY IS IT COMMERCIALLY
AVAILABLE,
BUT PEOPLE ARE BUILDING
THEIR OWN.
SO IT'S KIND OF CHANGING THE WAY
THAT PEOPLE HAVE HAD
ACCESS TO THE TECHNOLOGY.
FIRST OF ALL, IT'S
GETTING CHEAPER.
SOME OF THE ROBOTS THAT MY
COLLEAGUES USE ARE A HALF A
MILLION TO A MILLION
DOLLARS APIECE.
THAT FALLS WELL OUTSIDE
THE REALM
THAT US TYPICAL MARINE
BIOLOGISTS WOULD USE.
SO THESE ROBOTS, BECAUSE THEY'RE
GETTING CHEAPER AND CHEAPER
AND WE'RE ABLE TO MODIFY
THEM IN WAYS THAT ENABLE THEM
TO DO WHAT WE WANT THEM TO DO,
IS GOING TO CHANGE HOW
WE STUDY THESE ANIMALS,
BECAUSE THEY CAN DO THINGS THAT
A TEAM OF BIOLOGISTS CAN'T DO
AND THEY CAN DO IT CHEAPER.
>> SO WHAT KINDS OF
INFORMATION WILL WE LEARN
FROM THIS ROBOT TECHNOLOGY
DOWN THE LINE?
>> WELL, THE NICE THING
ABOUT THE TECHNOLOGY IS
WE CAN COUPLE ALL SORTS
OF SENSORS ON THE ROBOTS.
WE CAN USE THE ROBOTS AS
BASICALLY OCEAN MONITORS,
MOBILE OCEAN MONITORS.
BUT NOT ONLY ARE THEY
MONITORING THE OCEAN,
BUT THEY CAN BE MONITORING
ANIMALS.
WE CAN MOUNT VIDEO
CAMERAS ON THEM
AND SOMETHING CALLED
IMAGE SONAR,
WHICH BASICALLY GIVES
YOU A SOUND-VIDEO IMAGE
OF WHAT'S GOING ON AROUND THEM.
SO WE CAN THEN BEGIN TO
USE COMPUTER PROGRAMS
TO STITCH ALL THIS TOGETHER
AND RECREATE A 3D ENVIRONMENT
AROUND THE ANIMAL
WE'RE FOLLOWING.
>> THAT'S PRETTY EXCITING.
CHRIS, WE'RE GOING TO
TAKE A BREAK RIGHT NOW,
BUT WHEN WE COME BACK,
WE'LL TALK ABOUT WHAT CHRIS'
RESEARCH IS DOING IN TERMS
OF HIS CONCLUSIONS ABOUT
THE COASTAL ENVIRONMENT HERE
IN SOUTHERN CALIFORNIA,
AND WE'LL ALSO TALK
ABOUT HOW TELEVISION
DOCUMENTARIES ARE INFLUENCING
PUBLIC OPINION ABOUT
SHARK RESEARCH.
STAY WITH US.
>> THERE'S A WORLD OF
OPPORTUNITY AVAILABLE
THROUGH THE COLLEGE
OF CONTINUING
AND PROFESSIONAL EDUCATION
AT CAL STATE LONG BEACH.
WOULD YOU LIKE TO MOVE AHEAD
IN THE FIELD OF HUMAN RESOURCES
AND PERSONNEL MANAGEMENT?
SIGN UP FOR THE HUMAN RESOURCES
MANAGEMENT CERTIFICATE PROGRAM.
YOU'LL LEARN HOW TO EXPAND
YOUR KNOWLEDGE AND SKILLS,
AND ADVANCE IN THIS
DYNAMIC INDUSTRY.
FOR MORE INFORMATION, CONTACT
THE COLLEGE OF CONTINUING
AND PROFESSIONAL EDUCATION
AT CAL STATE LONG BEACH.
>> WELCOME BACK TO
TALKING POINTS.
I'M DAVE KELLY AT
CAL STATE LONG BEACH.
MY GUEST TODAY IS
DR. CHRIS LOWE.
WE'RE TALKING ABOUT SHARKS,
RESEARCH INTO SHARK POPULATIONS,
AND ALSO THE RECOVERY OF MARINE
ECOSYSTEMS IN CALIFORNIA.
CHRIS, BEFORE THE BREAK, WE
LOOKED AT THAT VIDEO CLIP --
EXCELLENT FOOTAGE, BY THE WAY --
AND WE DID NOTICE A LOT OF
LEOPARD SHARKS IN THAT FOOTAGE.
TELL US ABOUT THE
LEOPARD SHARKS.
THEY'RE NOT THE ONES
THAT ARE VERY SCARY.
>> NO. SO WE USE LEOPARD SHARKS
BECAUSE THEY'RE VERY ABUNDANT,
THEY'RE A COASTAL SHARK,
AND THEY'RE THE ONES
THAT PEOPLE ARE MOST LIKELY
TO SEE ALONG OUR COASTLINE.
THEY'RE A VERY DOCILE SHARK,
THEY FEED ON WORMS AND CLAMS
AND THINGS LIKE THAT, AND THEIR
NUMBERS ARE INCREASING BASICALLY
BECAUSE OF BETTER
FISHERIES MANAGEMENT.
SO WE USE THEM BECAUSE
THEY'RE A GREAT MODEL --
THEY'VE BECOME A VERY GOOD MODEL
SPECIES FOR US TO DEVELOP SOME
OF OUR NEW TECHNOLOGY ON,
AND WE'VE LEARNED A LOT
ABOUT THEIR BEHAVIOR
AND MOVEMENTS ALREADY
SO WE KNOW WHAT WE
SHOULD EXPECT TO SEE
WHEN WE APPLY THIS
NEW TECHNOLOGY.
>> BUT ONE OF THE AREAS
THAT YOU'RE MOST FOCUSED
ON IS WHITE SHARKS,
THE PREDATOR SHARKS.
>> RIGHT.
>> THOSE ARE THE
ONES THAT MOVIES
AND STORIES ARE BUILT AROUND.
>> RIGHT.
>> TELL US ABOUT THE
WHITE SHARK RESEARCH.
WHAT IS YOUR WHITE SHARK
RESEARCH TELLING YOU?
>> SO ONE OF THE THINGS
THAT WE'VE NOTICED --
AND THIS COMES BACK TO THE STORY
ABOUT ECOSYSTEM RECOVERY --
IS THAT IF MARINE MAMMAL
POPULATIONS ARE COMING BACK
AND FISH POPULATIONS
ARE COMING BACK
BECAUSE OF BETTER WATER QUALITY
AND BETTER FISHERIES MANAGEMENT,
THESE ARE THE THINGS THAT
WHITE SHARKS FEED ON.
SO THE REASON WHY WE THINK WE'RE
SEEING WHITE SHARK POPULATIONS
COME BACK IS BECAUSE THEIR
FOOD BASE HAS RETURNED,
BOTH FOR THE JUVENILES --
WHICH EAT PRIMARILY FISH
AND THAT ARE FOUND ALONG
OUR COASTLINE IN MANY
OF THE SAME PLACES THAT
LEOPARD SHARKS ARE FOUND --
BUT ALSO THE ADULTS, WHICH
FEED ON MARINE MAMMALS.
AND THE MARINE MAMMAL
POPULATIONS HAVE COME
BACK GANGBUSTERS.
SO IT KIND OF MAKES SENSE
THAT WE SHOULD EXPECT
TO SEE WHITE SHARK
POPULATIONS RECOVER,
BUT THIS HAS TAKEN DECADES.
THIS HAS LITERALLY
TAKEN DECADES,
FOR US TO SEE THESE
SORTS OF EFFECTS.
SO IT'S ENCOURAGING TO
SEE NOT JUST PROTECTION
OF WHITE SHARKS HAS
RESULTED IN THEIR RECOVERY,
BUT BASICALLY RECOVERY
OF THE ECOSYSTEM ITSELF.
>> WHEN WE TALK ABOUT WHITE
SHARKS AND TAGGING THE SHARKS
AND THEN TRYING TO TRACK
THEIR MOVEMENTS, WE'RE TALKING
ABOUT A VERY LARGE RANGE.
WHAT IS A TYPICAL
RANGE OF A WHITE SHARK?
>> WELL, THAT VARIES
DEPENDING ON THEIR LIFE STAGE.
SO FOR EXAMPLE, WE'VE
DONE A LOT OF TAGGING
OF BABY WHITE SHARKS
ALONG OUR COASTLINE.
AND SOUTHERN CALIFORNIA IS
THE NURSERY FOR WHITE SHARKS.
SO IT'S NOT UNCOMMON
TO FIND, YOU KNOW,
A FIVE-FOOT SHARK RIGHT
ALONG OUR BEACHES,
JUST OUTSIDE THE BREAK,
ANYTIME DURING THE SUMMER
AND FALL MONTHS.
WE'VE MANAGE TO CATCH THOSE
SHARKS AND PUT TRANSMITTERS
ON THEM -- DIFFERENT
TYPES; ACOUSTIC
AND SATELLITE TRANSMITTERS
-- AND TRACK THEIR MOVEMENTS.
SO ONE OF THE THINGS
WE'VE FOUND IS
THAT DURING THE SUMMER
MONTHS, THEY SPEND MOST
OF THEIR TIME JUST
SWIMMING ALONG OUR BEACHES,
PROBABLY LOOKING FOR EASY
THINGS TO CATCH LIKE STINGRAYS.
BUT IN THE WINTER, WHEN OUR
WATER TEMPERATURES START
TO DROP, MOST OF THESE
SHARKS MIGRATE SOUTH TO BAJA,
AND THEY TEND TO SPEND
THEIR ENTIRE WINTER THERE.
NOW, ABOUT 25 PERCENT OF THE
SHARKS THAT WE'VE TAGGED SO FAR,
WE'VE ACTUALLY DOCUMENTED COMING
BACK TO SOUTHERN CALIFORNIA
IN THEIR SUBSEQUENT SUMMERS.
IN FACT, WE'VE EVEN
HAD SOME OF THE SHARKS
THAT HAVE COME BACK GO IN
AND SPEND TIME IN LA HARBOR.
SO THIS IS A GOOD INDICATION
THAT SOUTHERN CALIFORNIA
BIGHT ISN'T JUST A PLACE
WHERE THEY WERE BORN AND THEY
SPEND THEIR FIRST SUMMER HERE
BECAUSE THEY DON'T
KNOW ANY BETTER,
BUT THEY COME BACK PROBABLY
BECAUSE CONDITIONS ARE GOOD.
>> YOU MENTIONED A TERM,
"SOUTHERN CALIFORNIA BIGHT."
WHAT DOES THAT ACTUALLY MEAN?
>> SO THE SOUTHERN CALIFORNIA
BIGHT IS ACTUALLY A BIGHT
OUT OF THE COASTLINE THAT
EXTENDS FROM SANTA BARBARA
DOWN INTO NORTHERN BAJA.
SO MARINE BIOLOGISTS
AND OCEANOGRAPHERS REFER
TO THIS WHOLE AREA, FROM
SAN DIEGO TO SANTA BARBARA,
AS THE SOUTHERN CALIFORNIA
BIGHT.
IT'S UNIQUE IN THAT THE WATER
TEMPERATURES GET WARMER HERE,
EVEN THOUGH WE HAVE A COLD
CALIFORNIA CURRENT COMING
DOWN FROM HUMBOLDT IN ALASKA
CARRYING DOWN COLD WATER.
SO AS A RESULT, SOUTHERN
CALIFORNIA BIGHT IS CONSIDERED
ONE OF THE MOST PRODUCTIVE
HABITATS ON THE WEST COAST.
>> AND JUST A LITTLE SHARK
HUMOR HERE -- WHEN WE SAY BIGHT,
WE DON'T MEAN B-I-T-E;
WE MEAN B-I-G-H-T.
>> THAT'S CORRECT.
>> THAT'S HOW THEY DEFINE THAT.
BUT ANYWAY, TALKING ABOUT SHARKS
AND TALKING ABOUT TELEVISION
AND STORIES AND SO ON, WE KNOW
THAT THERE'S A VERY POPULAR WEEK
ON DISCOVERY CHANNEL
KNOWN AS SHARK WEEK,
AND YOU'VE ACTUALLY BEEN
A PARTICIPANT IN SOME
OF THOSE DOCUMENTARIES.
TELL US ABOUT THAT PROCESS
AND SOME OF YOUR THOUGHTS
AND CONCERNS ABOUT HOW SHARK
RESEARCH IS PORTRAYED TODAY
ON TELEVISION.
>> WELL, YOU KNOW, THE MEDIA
HAS HELPED GENERATE THIS PERSONA
OF SHARKS, AND PEOPLE
HAVE GOBBLED IT UP.
NO PUN INTENDED.
BUT IN MANY WAYS, IT'S CREATED
A HYPE THAT'S HARD TO OVERCOME.
SO ONE OF THE JOBS THAT
WE'RE HAVING IS, WORLDWIDE,
MANY SHARK POPULATIONS
ARE BEING OVERFISHED.
THEY'RE BEING KILLED
FOR THEIR FINS.
THERE ARE PLACES WHERE THERE
ARE VERY FEW REGULATIONS
ON SHARK HARVESTING,
AND AS A RESULT,
WE'RE SEEING DRAMATIC DECLINES
IN SHARK POPULATIONS WORLDWIDE.
IT BECOMES HARD TO
CONVINCE PEOPLE TO TRY
TO PROTECT THESE ANIMALS
IF THEY'RE AFRAID OF THEM.
UNFORTUNATELY, SHARK
WEEK ATTEMPTS TO TRY
TO EDUCATE THE PUBLIC,
BUT QUITE OFTEN
IN THE BACKGROUND YOU CAN HEAR
THE "DUN-NUN, DUN-NUN" MUSIC,
WHICH MAKES IT HARD
TO CONVINCE PEOPLE
THAT THESE ANIMALS ARE
WORTHY OF PROTECTION
WHEN WE'RE STILL INSTILLING
THAT FEAR IN THE PUBLIC.
SO I THINK THEY DO A GOOD
JOB AT GETTING INFORMATION
OUT TO THE PUBLIC ABOUT SHARKS,
BUT THEY ALSO DO A DISSERVICE
IN TERMS OF PROVIDING
THIS UNDERLYING FEAR
THAT PEOPLE ACTUALLY CRAVE.
>> WELL, IT'S ALL ABOUT
RATINGS AND, OF COURSE,
FEAR GENERATES RATINGS,
AND SO I THINK THEY DO TRY
TO PRESENT SOME OF THAT RESEARCH
THAT YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT,
BUT ULTIMATELY, THEY
WANT THOSE RATINGS.
>> AND I GET THAT.
AS A SCIENTIST AND EDUCATOR,
MY JOB IS TO GET GOOD
INFORMATION OUT TO THE PUBLIC.
THEY BECOME A GREAT
MECHANISM FOR US TO DO THAT,
BUT IT ALWAYS COMES AT A COST.
AND THE COST IS THAT
MUSIC PLAYING
IN THE BACKGROUND WHILE YOU'RE
GIVING A CONSERVATION MESSAGE,
SO IT BECOMES HARD TO DO THAT.
NOW, WITH THAT SAID, WE
ARE SEEING A CHANGE --
WE ARE SEEING PEOPLE'S
ATTITUDES ABOUT SHARKS CHANGE --
AND THAT'S BEEN HAPPENING
OVER THE LAST 10 YEARS.
WE'D LIKE TO SEE
IT HAPPEN FASTER
BECAUSE SOME SHARK POPULATIONS
ARE IN PRETTY BAD SHAPE,
AND SOMETHING NEEDS
TO BE DONE QUICKER
THAN AT A 10-YEAR,
20-YEAR SCALE.
SO HOPEFULLY, THE PUBLIC --
WHO ARE THE CONSUMERS
OF SHARK WEEK --
WILL START DEMANDING
BETTER PROGRAMMING.
>> IN TERMS OF AN INCREASE
IN THE PREDATOR SHARKS,
WHITE SHARKS IN SOUTHERN
CALIFORNIA
AND ALONG THE WEST COAST, WHAT
ARE SOME THINGS THAT MAY HAPPEN
IN THE FUTURE IN TERMS
OF SHARK SIGHTINGS
IF THOSE POPULATIONS COME BACK?
>> WELL, WE'RE ALREADY
SEEING THIS.
WE'RE ALREADY SEEING PEOPLE
SIGHTING MORE SHARKS ALONG
THE COASTLINE.
AND, IN FACT, DURING THE
SUMMER, IT'S ALMOST DAILY NEWS.
IT'S ALMOST PART OF
THE DAILY NEWS CYCLE.
SO AS POPULATIONS
CONTINUE TO GO UP,
WE EXPECT THIS TO
KEEP HAPPENING.
NOW, THERE'S A FLIPSIDE TO THIS,
IN THAT SOME PEOPLE VIEW THIS
AS BEING A BAD THING;
IN OTHER WORDS,
THE MORE SHARKS YOU'RE
GOING TO SEE, IT'S NOT GOING
TO TAKE LONG BEFORE
SOMEBODY GETS BITTEN.
AND THAT PROBABLY WILL
HAPPEN, IT HAS BEEN HAPPENING,
BUT NOT AT A RATE AS YOU'D
EXPECT CONSIDERING THE NUMBER
OF PEOPLE THAT GO IN THE
WATER EVERY SINGLE DAY
IN SOUTHERN CALIFORNIA.
SO WE SUSPECT THAT
IN MOST CASES,
SHARKS AVOID HEAVILY POPULATED
BEACHES, WHICH IS A GOOD SIGN.
THESE BABIES, WHICH ARE THE
ONES BEING SEEN THE MOST,
REALLY POSE VERY
LITTLE THREAT TO HUMANS.
THEY'RE OUT THERE JUST OUTSIDE
THE BREAK, THEY'RE FEEDING
ON FISHES ON THE BOTTOM,
STINGRAYS, THINGS LIKE THAT;
BUT THEY REALLY DON'T POSE
MUCH OF A THREAT TO HUMANS.
SO THE TOUGH PART'S GOING TO
BE CONVINCING PEOPLE THAT,
WITH THESE RISING NUMBERS,
THAT THEY ARE GOING
TO SEE MORE SHARKS --
AND BELIEVE IT OR NOT,
THAT'S A GOOD THING.
WE'VE ACTUALLY SPENT A
LOT OF MONEY AND A LOT
OF POLITICAL POWER AND
WILL TO BRING THIS ABOUT.
SO PEOPLE SHOULD BE
EXCITED IF THEY SEE A SHARK.
>> YOU WORK WITH LIFEGUARDS.
WHAT DO YOU TELL THE LIFEGUARDS?
>> WELL, YOU KNOW, WHAT WE WANT
TO DO IS GIVE THEM
THE INFORMATION
THAT THEY CAN BEST
EDUCATE THE PUBLIC WITH.
AND ONE OF THE THINGS THAT
WE THINK IS IMPORTANT IS
THAT PEOPLE BE AWARE OF
OCEAN DANGERS, THEY BE AWARE
OF OCEAN RISKS, AND BEING OCEAN
SMART WHEN THEY GO IN THE WATER.
SO IT'S NOT JUST
SHARKS; IT'S STINGRAYS,
IT'S RIPTIDES, IT'S POLLUTION.
THERE ARE A LOT OF THINGS THAT
PEOPLE NEED TO BE AWARE OF,
AND THEY NEED TO
DO THEIR HOMEWORK.
IF YOU'RE GOING TO GO TO
A BEACH AND YOU'RE GOING
TO USE A WATER ACTIVITY,
KNOW ABOUT WHAT ANIMALS
OCCUR AT THOSE PLACES.
AND THE LIFEGUARDS ARE
GOING TO BECOME A CONDUIT
FOR THAT INFORMATION, SO
OUR JOB AT THE SHARK LAB IS
TO PROVIDE THEM WITH GOOD
INFORMATION ABOUT WHAT WE KNOW
ABOUT SHARKS NOW, AND
GIVE PEOPLE THE AMMUNITION
AND INFORMATION THEY NEED
TO BE SAFE WHEN THEY GO
INTO THE WATER, AND TO
EVALUATE THOSE RISKS THEMSELVES.
NOW, THE REALITY OF IT IS
YOUR CHANCES OF BEING BITTEN
BY A SHARK ARE SO
INFINITESIMALLY LOW
THAT IT REALLY ISN'T
WORTH WORRYING ABOUT.
FAR MORE PEOPLE ARE
KILLED DRIVING TO THE BEACH
IN SOUTHERN CALIFORNIA
THAN WOULD EVER
FROM ENCOUNTERING A SHARK.
SO THE FACT THAT PEOPLE WORRY
ABOUT THIS IS A LITTLE
DISCONCERTING,
BUT WITH BETTER PUBLIC
EDUCATION,
WE THINK WE CAN CHANGE
THOSE ATTITUDES.
>> AND PART OF THAT PUBLIC
EDUCATIONAL PROCESS INVOLVES
LETTING PEOPLE KNOW THAT WE, AS
HUMANS, ARE NOT OCEAN MAMMALS.
WE ARE LAND-BASED FOLKS, AND
THE MARINE ENVIRONMENT BELONGS
TO THE MARINE ANIMALS.
>> AND THAT'S ANOTHER
MESSAGE, RIGHT?
THE MESSAGE IS WE'RE
VISITORS TO THE OCEAN.
WHILE WE LIKE TO
BELIEVE THAT WE OWN
AND DOMINATE ALL THESE PLACES,
THE OCEAN IS NOT DISNEYLAND;
THERE ARE NO GUARANTEES.
SO PEOPLE REALLY HAVE
TO BE OCEAN SMART.
THEY HAVE TO REMEMBER
THAT THEY'RE A GUEST
IN THAT ENVIRONMENT,
WE'RE NOT NATURALLY MADE
FOR THAT ENVIRONMENT.
A LOT OF PEOPLE LOVE
TO SPEND TIME THERE,
BUT WE HAVE A RESPONSIBILITY
TOO.
WE HAVE A RESPONSIBILITY TO
MAKE SURE THAT ENVIRONMENT,
IT EXPERIENCES MINIMAL
IMPACTS FROM OUR USE.
SO I THINK WE'RE GETTING THERE.
I THINK THAT MESSAGE IS
GETTING OUT THERE, AND THE SIGN
THAT POPULATIONS ARE RECOVERING
AND OCEAN ECOSYSTEM IS
GETTING BETTER IS A SIGN
THAT WE'RE BEING BETTER
STEWARDS OF THE OCEAN.
>> AND SPEAKING OF OCEAN
STEWARDSHIP, I KNOW THAT YOU
AND A COLLEAGUE, STEVEN MANLEY,
ARE WORKING ON A PROJECT --
JUST BEGAN THE RESEARCH -- ON
THE EFFECTS OF RADIATION LEAKING
FROM THE FUKUSHIMA
NUCLEAR PLANT IN JAPAN.
TELL US WHAT THE PARAMETERS
ARE OF THAT RESEARCH.
I KNOW YOU'RE LOOKING INTO
THE KELP FOREST AND THE IMPACT
ON THE KELP FOREST, BUT WHAT ARE
THE PARAMETERS OF THE RESEARCH
AND WHAT DO YOU HOPE TO
LEARN FROM THAT RESEARCH?
>> WELL, WORKING WITH MY
COLLEAGUE STEVE MANLEY,
WHO'S AN EXPERT IN KELP,
YOU KNOW, HE WAS THE FIRST
TO REALLY FIGURE OUT THAT,
HERE IN SOUTHERN CALIFORNIA,
AFTER THAT INCIDENT, WE COULD
USE KELP AS AN INDICATOR,
LIKE A DOSIMETER OR BADGE THAT
PEOPLE WOULD WEAR THAT WORK
AROUND RADIATION AS A WAY
OF MEASURING WHAT GETS
INTO THE OCEAN, AND
WHERE DOES IT --
HOW DOES IT TRAVEL
THROUGH THE FOOD WEB?
SO STEVE'S IDEA WAS TO
GO OUT AND COLLECT KELP
FROM ALL DIFFERENT LOCATIONS
AND SEE HOW LONG IT TOOK FOR US
TO SEE THAT SIGNATURE IN
OUR COASTAL ENVIRONMENT.
AND WE WERE ABLE TO
ACTUALLY DOCUMENT
THAT A MONTH AFTER THE INCIDENT.
IT TOOK A MONTH FOR
THE ATMOSPHERE TO CARRY
OVER THOSE RADIOACTIVE MATERIALS
TO ACTUALLY END UP IN OUR OCEAN.
AND THAT BRINGS ABOUT A
REALLY INTERESTING THING
THAT I THINK WE HAVE
TO FOCUS ON NOW.
LET'S SAY WE'VE DONE A
REALLY GOOD JOB AT CLEANING
UP OUR REGIONAL OCEAN AND
FIXING REGIONAL PROBLEMS,
BUT WHAT THIS SYSTEM
INDICATES --
THIS INCIDENT IN
JAPAN INDICATES --
IS THAT WHAT HAPPENS
ACROSS OUR OCEAN,
WE CAN ACTUALLY SEE
THE EFFECTS HERE.
NOW, THEY MAY NOT
BE DETRIMENTAL,
BUT WE CAN ACTUALLY
MEASURE THEM.
THE POINT IS, WE NEED TO
START THINKING MORE GLOBALLY
ABOUT WHAT HAPPENS.
WE'VE DONE A GOOD JOB LOOKING
LOCALLY AND REGIONALLY,
AND FIXING PROBLEMS THAT
WE'VE BEEN ABLE TO DETECT.
NOW WE NEED TO START
THINKING GLOBALLY,
AND THIS IS A COMPLETELY
DIFFERENT GAME.
THIS GOES BEYOND JUST
OUR LOCAL COMMUNITY
AND OUR LOCAL LEGISLATION.
THIS MEANS LOOKING
AT THINGS GLOBALLY.
THE OCEANS ARE CONNECTED, AND WE
ARE NOW ABLE TO MEASURE EVENTS
THAT OCCUR ACROSS OCEANS.
HOW THEY'RE GOING TO AFFECT
ALL THE WORK THAT WE'VE DONE
TO BRING OUR OCEAN BACK IS
GOING TO BE REALLY IMPORTANT,
AND THIS IS GOING TO
TAKE A GLOBAL EFFORT.
>> IT'S GOING TO TAKE A LOT
OF INTERNATIONAL COOPERATION
ON THIS ISSUE TO BE SURE.
WE'RE ALMOST OUT OF TIME,
CHRIS, BUT IN JUST 30 SECONDS,
TELL US ABOUT SEAFOOD
AND FRESH SEAFOOD
AND WHAT THE DIFFERENCE
IS THESE DAYS.
I KNOW YOU COME FROM A FAMILY
OF FISHERMEN IN ADDITION
TO BEING A MARINE BIOLOGIST.
WHAT ARE YOUR THOUGHTS
ABOUT SEAFOOD?
>> WELL, YOU KNOW, WE'RE TOLD
THAT SEAFOOD IS GOOD FOR YOU.
IT'S A HEALTHY FORM OF PROTEIN.
HARVESTING IT IN A WAY
THAT'S SUSTAINABLE IS GETTING
MUCH BETTER.
WE IMPORT OVER 80 PERCENT OF OUR
SEAFOOD, AND WE NEED TO SOLVE
THAT PROBLEM, WHETHER IT
BE THROUGH AQUACULTURE
OR BETTER SUSTAINABLE
FISHERIES HERE.
I'VE SEEN A LOT OF COMMERCIAL
FISHERMEN GO OUT OF BUSINESS.
WE'VE BASICALLY DRIVEN
THEM OUT OF BUSINESS.
THE FEW THAT ARE REMAINING
ARE ACTUALLY MAKING A LIVING
FOR THE FIRST TIME, AND THEY'RE
SUPPLYING THEIR COMMUNITIES
WITH GOOD, FRESH FISH.
AND UNFORTUNATELY, MUCH
OF THE PUBLIC DOESN'T KNOW WHAT
FRESH FISH TASTES LIKE ANYMORE.
SO I THINK THERE ARE
OPPORTUNITIES HERE TO REALLY DO
THAT AND DO IT SUSTAINABLY.
>> THANK YOU, CHRIS.
WE ARE OUT OF TIME.
I WANT TO THANK YOU
FOR JOINING US TODAY.
AND THANK YOU FOR JOINING
US ON TALKING POINTS.
JOIN US AGAIN FOR
ANOTHER EPISODE SOON.
UNTIL THEN, I'M DAVE KELLY.
HAVE A NICE DAY.
[ MUSIC ]
