SPEAKER 1: So I just wanted
to get some background on you
first.
Now your website bio talks
about you starting authorship
on a dare from your wife.
So tell me about that.
DENNIS E. TAYLOR: Yeah.
I had just discovered Kindle
and e-books at the time,
and I was downloading books like
crazy, free, paid, whatever.
I was reading one
particular book, which
shall remain forever nameless,
and it was less than excellent.
I got about 30 pages into it
and finally gave up and said,
I can't believe that somebody
managed to publish this dreck,
and I could do better than this.
And my wife looked over and
said, well, why don't you?
Go ahead, write a book.
And I thought about
it for a while,
and then I just fired up
Word and started typing.
I had a choice of two stories
in my head at the time.
One was "Outland", one
was "We Are Legion".
I went with "Outland" first, but
that was just a flip of a coin.
SPEAKER 1: OK, yeah.
And I've told everyone
already "Outland"
is my personal favorite by far.
But apparently you've had more
success with "We Are Legion".
DENNIS E. TAYLOR: Yeah.
SPEAKER 1: That's great.
So what about before
the authorship?
What was your life
like growing up,
and what inspired you
to know so much about
and be so involved in sci-fi?
DENNIS E. TAYLOR: I started
reading science fiction
in grade five.
I mentioned to you
"The Lost Planet"
by Angus MacVicar was
my first real novel.
I read it, I was
hooked, and I've
been reading almost nothing
but science fiction since.
SPEAKER 1: OK.
And do you feel like that's
been a big inspiration for you,
like a musician listens to
music to inspire their music?
DENNIS E. TAYLOR: Yeah.
It has to be.
I mean, I have no formal
training in creative writing
or anything like that.
I don't have a degree.
So the style and
format and everything
has to come from somewhere.
And I just think it comes
from 50 years of having
read science fiction books.
SPEAKER 1: Great.
Great.
So a couple of notes.
There's not going to be any
spoilers that I know of,
but there are going to
be spoilers of concepts
that are in the book.
So reader beware.
You should read the book
first and then watch the talk,
for those on the video.
For those in the
room, there's no hope.
No, we're not going
to spoil anything,
but we will talk about a lot
of the concepts in the books.
So you've said that you
were also a programmer.
Was that your lifelong career?
DENNIS E. TAYLOR: Pretty much.
I started programming in my
early 20s on RadioShack TRS 80
as a hobby.
And it just-- it's addictive.
If you're the type of
personality who likes
programming, it's addictive.
You'll do it for fun.
And it was so addictive
that I ended up
getting a job in the
industry and moved myself up.
Back in those days, you
could get a job programming
if you could tell what side
of the keyboard was up.
So it wasn't like m
where you practically
have to have a PhD to
get in at an entry level.
SPEAKER 1: Sure.
And so you came into
programming without any degree.
That's pretty neat.
DENNIS E. TAYLOR: Yeah.
I have a tendency to come
in through the back door.
It's kind of strange.
SPEAKER 1: Yeah.
Well, you do the same
thing with your books.
So you started at 57, was it?
DENNIS E. TAYLOR: 51.
SPEAKER 1: 51.
OK.
DENNIS E. TAYLOR: Sorry.
Snowboarding, 51.
SPEAKER 1: Snowboarding, 51.
DENNIS E. TAYLOR: Yeah.
Writing, 57.
SPEAKER 1: Writing 57.
So there we go.
There's two hobbies
that you picked up later
in the back door.
So that's pretty interesting.
You mentioned that you
started without a degree.
Did you ever get a degree
later in life with programming?
DENNIS E. TAYLOR: No.
I was taking electronics
technology at VCIT
when I switched.
So I never finished that either.
SPEAKER 1: When you
switched over to writing?
DENNIS E. TAYLOR: No, when I
switched over to programming.
SPEAKER 1:
Programming full time.
Cool.
Well, I'd tell you you should
interview at Google, as I've
told many people, but I don't
want you to spend any more
time away from writing books.
So I'm sorry, but
please don't apply.
DENNIS E. TAYLOR: Well,
there's still a certain amount
of programming going on.
SPEAKER 1: Good.
And actually, yeah,
we have a slide
that we want to show
that's pretty interesting.
You wrote a program to track
all the different characters
in one of your books.
Can you tell us about this?
DENNIS E. TAYLOR:
Well, I called it
Time A Line, which is really
bogus, but I needed a name.
It's written in C#.
And all it is is a way of
creating events and linking
them, creating dependencies.
The reason that
I wrote it myself
is because I wanted to have
lead times, variable lead times,
and so forth.
And the [? eon ?] timeline,
which was the free timeline
program that I
could find online,
didn't offer some of
the stuff that I wanted.
So I hammered that together,
and it became my event tracker
for the Bobiverse.
SPEAKER 1: That's pretty fun.
Do you still use
that when you're
writing your books today?
DENNIS E. TAYLOR: I have to.
Yeah.
The thing about the
Bobiverse series
is because things happen
in different star systems
and on different schedules, the
overlaps and lightspeed delay
and stuff like that really
require a lot of planning.
SPEAKER 1: Cool.
Yeah, I mean, reading them is--
honestly, the program could
be useful for the readers.
You should make a
version for us so we can
track all the different bobs.
DENNIS E. TAYLOR: Yeah.
I actually did take
a screenshot of that
and publish it on my web page
based on somebody's request.
And I'll have to do that
again when books four and five
come out.
SPEAKER 1: Yeah,
it'd be interesting
if this is a feature request,
if you wrote a program that
allowed us to track where
we're at in the book
so we could know where
all the Bobs are.
But you have plenty
of writing to do,
so I'll put that on the backlog.
Tell us about which
works you've done.
So you've done "We Are
Legion" and "Outland".
How many books are in each?
DENNIS E. TAYLOR: OK, well,
I originally did "Outland".
That was my first book.
SPEAKER 1: My favorite.
DENNIS E. TAYLOR: I
wrote a little bit
of the sequel, "Earthside",
I think about a 1/3 of it.
And then I started
writing "Legio" because I
wanted to get on with things.
"Legion", "For We Are Many"
and "All These Worlds" form
a trilogy, and they wrap up
all the threads pretty well.
And then I wrote
"Singularity Trap",
which is a complete departure.
And, once that was out,
I re-edited "Outland"
because when Audible
signed a contract with me
for the "Singularity
Trap" contract,
they also signed a
separate contract
for "Outland" and "Earthside".
So that's an obligation.
So we re-edited it, and that's
coming out in audio May 16.
SPEAKER 1: Great.
That'll be exciting.
I'll pick that up
soon as it's out.
You mentioned you
work with Audible,
but otherwise you're
self-published, right?
DENNIS E. TAYLOR: Yeah.
My agent shopped around "Legion"
to all the big five publishers
and all the various
editors and so forth,
and he didn't really get a bite.
I think the main reason
is that I am, or was,
an unknown author, and he
was shopping a trilogy.
And that's kind of a no-no.
You don't try to shop a series
as your very first book.
It's too big of a gamble
for the publishers.
So anyway, nobody bit.
But I had gotten an
offer from Audible,
so we decided to go with the
audio contract and self-publish
on Ethan's ASP website.
It's author-assistant
publishing.
I can never remember what
the acronym stands for.
But basically what
he's got on there
is Ian Douglas and Andrew
Norton and various authors
who had their rights
reverted back to them.
So it's not really supposed
to be a big moneymaker.
It's just a place to get you off
published books onto e-books.
So we put it up,
essentially, self-published,
except that Ethan is taking
care of the technical details
for me.
And when the book
took off on Audible,
it took off as an e-book, and
a paperback just dragged along
in the current.
SPEAKER 1: Yeah.
Well, I remember I had
just finished some books
from Evan Currie--
I think that's how
you say his name--
Odyssey One books.
And they were basic blow 'em up
aliens books, and I loved them.
But I was looking for something
else, and I found "Outland".
And I was quite dismayed
when I finished "Outland"
and found out that there were--
I mean, I didn't
know who you were.
I read the book.
I'm like, OK, this other rocks.
And so I looked for
your other works,
and there was nothing else.
DENNIS E. TAYLOR: Yeah.
So you must have picked
it up before "Legion"
was actually released.
SPEAKER 1: Yeah, I think so.
And then, fortunately, you
released the "We Are Legion"
books pretty quickly behind
each other, didn't you?
DENNIS E. TAYLOR: Yes.
I actually had books two
and three partly written
by the time book
one was released.
So there wasn't
much of a lead time.
I think that was
September, 2016,
and the others were published
the next April and August.
SPEAKER 1: OK.
And can you tell us a little
bit about the difference
between being a self-published
author versus going
the other route?
DENNIS E. TAYLOR: Well, the
biggest single difference
from my point of view is
the amount of royalties.
Traditionally,
published authors do not
get a large chunk of the pie.
And traditional
publishers are very
slow about delivering
that very small chunk,
whereas dealing with Amazon,
I get paid every month,
and dealing with Audible
I get paid every quarter.
With Amazon, you
get 70% of the list
price of the book
less my agent's 15%,
of course, whereas a
traditionally published author
might get, I don't know,
25% of the list price
or less, depending on contract.
So yeah.
It makes a huge difference.
Martha Wells-- I
don't know if you've
read any of anything
of hers, but she's
one of the few
authors who are very
candid about their finances.
And she's actually published
her financial statements
for a couple of years now.
I think she showed herself as
making about $50,000 a year
writing.
So her husband continues to have
a day job because that's how
they get the medical paid for.
So it's not really a
life-changing thing
for a traditional
published author
unless you're Michael
Crighton or Stephen King
or something like that.
SPEAKER 1: Really huge, yeah.
Well, who takes care of all
the printing of the books
and things like that?
DENNIS E. TAYLOR: Well, the
simple answer is Amazon.
But my agent has taken on the
job of publisher for that.
So he does all the things
that a self-published author
would normally do, formatting
up the Word document,
submitting it, making sure
that it's properly formatted,
getting a cover,
stuff like that.
SPEAKER 1: OK.
That's a lot of
good information.
I've been curious myself.
DENNIS E. TAYLOR:
It's not actually
a lot of work in the end.
And you can publish
a book yourself
without ever spending a penny,
if you can do your own artwork.
SPEAKER 1: Did you
do your own artwork?
DENNIS E. TAYLOR: No.
SPEAKER 1: Who did your artwork?
DENNIS E. TAYLOR: Jeff
Brown is the guy's name.
He's actually a graphics
artist professionally.
And I had him do all three
covers at the same time
so that there was a
theme running through it.
Just the color
changed and so forth.
SPEAKER 1: I've been curious.
Which one of these is
the Bob and which is--
I don't even know how
to pronounce his name.
Madeiros?
DENNIS E. TAYLOR: Madeiros?
Yeah, that is Bob.
And that is actually
an image from--
SPEAKER 1: A long sleek one.
DENNIS E. TAYLOR: Yeah.
I did a blender
mockup of the ship
when I was developing
it, just trying to get
a feel for what might work.
And when Jeff was doing the
cover, he asked me about it,
and I said yeah, I've
got this blender render.
Here you go.
And he put it on the cover.
SPEAKER 1: Blender enter.
That's pretty catchy, too.
You've been writing for how
long, then, since you started?
DENNIS E. TAYLOR:
Well, "Outland"
was published January
of 2015, so a little
more than four years,
five years if you
include the lead time on that.
SPEAKER 1: That makes
sense because I must
have picked it up right after.
2015, I think, is when I
start reading your works.
And so that's what,
four years now?
DENNIS E. TAYLOR:
Four and a bit, yeah.
SPEAKER 1: That's not very long.
You have four or
five books now, plus
you did another work,
too, didn't you,
the group published?
DENNIS E. TAYLOR: Oh, the short
story, yeah, in the Colony
series.
I think I mentioned to you that
wasn't a pleasant experience,
and I don't think I'll do short
stories again for a while.
SPEAKER 1: OK.
Stick with the Bobiverse
and then "Outland".
What other works do you
have out there right now?
You just mentioned that
you have at least one more
book with Bob.
DENNIS E. TAYLOR: Well, under
development, the Bender books.
There's the three
Bobiverse books,
there's "Outland",
"Singularity Trap", and then
I'm working on books four and
five of the Bobiverse, four
and five, "Search for Bender".
SPEAKER 1: Cool.
And then I have to ask, because
I'm a huge fan, Outland 2".
When do we see it?
DENNIS E. TAYLOR: That will
be the next thing I'll work on
as soon as "Bender" is out.
Again, I have an obligation.
I have a contract.
SPEAKER 1: Yeah.
What's that pressure
like from the fans?
Because I know I've
been on your blog
back when you had
it active, and I
was posting like
a petulant child,
begging you to write more books.
What's that pressure like?
DENNIS E. TAYLOR: It
isn't really pressure.
If you're a computer
programmer or have
been a computer programmer,
you know about pressure.
You know about bosses
breathing down your neck
and showing up at your
cubicle every five minutes.
Is it done yet?
Is it done yet?
Is it done yet?
You develop a thick skin.
I feel bad when somebody
asks me about "Bender"
and I say, no, it's not
going to be ready then.
I'm sorry.
Another six months.
But it's not pressure, I
think, the way you mean it.
SPEAKER 1: Interesting.
Yeah.
I'll ask you more
about that later.
We're probably going
to leave a lot of room
for questions at the end because
this universe is very big
and there's a lot of
interesting points.
And hopefully, if you
haven't read his book,
you'll have it read by
the end of this talk.
I think you have 40 minutes.
So I mean, first things first.
Do you want your brain
sliced into a million pieces
and turned into an AI?
DENNIS E. TAYLOR:
My preference would
be for physical immortality.
So I'm holding out
for medical advances.
But if that was my only
option, I'd go for it.
SPEAKER 1: You would.
And would it be you?
We talked about this before.
It's kind of an
interesting question.
DENNIS E. TAYLOR: Yeah.
And I'd like to go
back to the "Star Trek"
episode where they created
Thomas Riker, the duplicate
Riker.
Is Thomas Riker Riker?
He sure thinks so.
But the original
Riker thinks so, too.
But then everybody who
ever got transported
thinks they're the original.
And if you go by the
"Star Trek" explanation
for the transporter,
they're not.
They got killed long time ago.
SPEAKER 1: OK, yeah.
And I mean, for me, if
I were to look at it,
I would think if you can control
that body, then that's you.
So if there are two
different RIkers,
I would suspect one can't
control the other's body.
DENNIS E. TAYLOR: No.
Yeah, each of them is
them, but each of them
thinks that they're
the original Riker.
In one case, in the case of
Thomas, he knows that he's not,
I guess, because
of circumstances.
But he sure feels
like the original guy.
SPEAKER 1: And I don't
think this is a spoiler,
but there's an instance where--
I mean, maybe it is.
You tell me.
And then we'll just delete
the video off of YouTube.
But Bob, in this
book, who's an AI,
is able to create sandboxes,
areas of computer programming
that are isolated
from anything else.
And he puts characters in them
to be able to test things.
Now when he deletes that
sandbox, did he just murder?
DENNIS E. TAYLOR: Yeah.
I kind of just sort of
sped past that point
and tried not to
think of it too much.
Technically, based on
the amount of explaining
that I did in the book, he
is kind of deleting himself.
But I'm going with the
idea that the sandbox
Bob was a limited
edition version of him.
Bob Light.
SPEAKER 1: Bob Light, OK.
DENNIS E. TAYLOR: That's my
story and I'm sticking to it.
SPEAKER 1: Good.
He could remove, somehow,
the sentience, maybe,
from the sandbox version.
OK, cool.
So then what about an AI
like Bob amongst humans?
What human rights
does the AI Bob have?
DENNIS E. TAYLOR: Well,
in the book, none.
And that's why I
created a theocracy.
I've taken a lot of
flack from theists
of various stripes on my
website and other places because
of the negative portrayal
of faith and theocracies
in general.
Leaving aside the
question of whether I
was accurate about them,
I needed a theocracy
because that's the type
of institution that
would look at Bob
as not being alive,
not being sentient,
not having a soul.
I mean, you have to believe
in the existence of a soul
before you can say
somebody doesn't have one.
So he has no rights.
He can be bought and sold.
He can be--
SPEAKER 1: That explains
a lot, actually.
Hopefully not a spoiler.
But yeah, when I was reading,
I was kind of curious
because it did very seem
strong to me, the theocracy
aspect of it, and frankly,
slightly unrealistic.
But it makes a lot
of sense that you
would need that in order to take
away Bob's humanity, I guess.
DENNIS E. TAYLOR:
Take away his rights.
SPEAKER 1: Interesting.
Interesting.
And they're kind of irrelevant,
too, I mean, as an AI,
because in some ways
he's all powerful.
DENNIS E. TAYLOR: Yeah.
He becomes all
powerful because he
gets the constraints taken off.
And that's because
of circumstances
that we won't go into.
But once the constraints on
his behavior are taken off,
he's a free agent,
and then yeah, he
can do whatever he
wants, and he does.
SPEAKER 1: Yeah, he does.
And that's kind of what
makes the book fun.
One thing you were talking
to me about before,
and this is kind of a
theme in sci-fi in general,
is post-scarcity civilizations.
So can you explain
what those are
and what implications they have?
DENNIS E. TAYLOR:
Well, the first problem
with post-scarcity
civilizations is
that, when people hear
about them, they think,
I can have whatever
I want whenever I
want to whatever degree I want.
And that's not opposed
to scarcity civilization.
That's a Utopia, but probably
also wish fulfillment.
Post-scarcity civilization,
really, the only requirement
is that all the
basics be provided.
Nobody has to starve,
nobody has to go homeless.
You can live a reasonable life
without ever lifting a finger.
But that doesn't mean you're
going to be driving a Mercedes
or living in a
mansion on the hill.
The nature of reality is
that there's always going
to be scarcity of some kind.
Everybody can't have
everything they want.
SPEAKER 1: So you're
living is taking care of,
but your desires are
still very constrained.
And is that what would
drive, then, people to action
in a post-scarcity society?
DENNIS E. TAYLOR: I think so.
It's been dealt with
in a number of books,
but usually the basic
idea is that there's
some kind of
universal basic income
and guarantees of basic
necessities and so forth.
And if you just want to
live at that level, great.
That's good.
In fact, Asimov does that, and
we were talking about Asimov
earlier.
If you want to buy a Mercedes
or the big mansion on the hill,
you have to put some--
SPEAKER 1: You have to work.
DENNIS E. TAYLOR: You have to
put some elbow grease in there.
You have to find a
use for yourself.
You have to contribute.
SPEAKER 1: Yes.
So in these societies,
then, you're not just--
yeah, because I was worrying
about that, especially
in terms of Bob,
who can do whatever
he wants in certain ways--
what meaning life, if you
can call it that, for an AI,
would have once it's eternal
and capabilities are endless.
DENNIS E. TAYLOR: The thing is,
that type of question hinges
on your personality.
It depends on what drives you.
One of the--
I don't want to call
it cliches, but a trope
in fiction, and
maybe in real life,
is the person who
works all their life,
retires, and is
dead in six months.
Or they spend all their
time in front of the TV set
or something like that.
Those are people who defined
themselves by their job.
They lived to work.
If you're the type of
person who works to live,
once the financial
constraints are taken off,
there's lots of stuff
to do; in Bob's case,
explore or be a
buttinski and get
involved in the Daltons
and stuff like that.
But he's not limited
by need for a job.
He's able to define
his own goals.
And I think if you
can do that, you'll
be fine in any
post-scarcity society.
SPEAKER 1: Interesting.
As long as you have
something to work for.
You have a lot of specific
details about solar systems
and galaxies in this book.
Did you research all
that just for this book,
or was that something you were
already very familiar with?
DENNIS E. TAYLOR: I was
an amateur astronomer
when I was a teenager.
I actually built my own
reflector telescope,
ground the mirror,
the whole bit.
And boy, is that boring.
Hour upon hour.
But that's back in the
dim mists of prehistory.
We didn't know as much
astronomy in those days.
But I've kept up with it.
I read the magazines and the
articles on Phys.org and stuff
like that.
And the only thing I
really had to research
was specific stellar systems.
I needed a stellar system
that's 10 light years away.
OK, that's Epsilon
Eridani, Delta Eridani's
over there, and so forth.
But yeah, that's
just detail work.
SPEAKER 1: OK.
So all that detail
work is accurate,
then, for the most
part, in your book.
Wow.
So how accurate are you
with the actual composition
of the planets in those systems?
DENNIS E. TAYLOR: Oh,
that's total fabrication.
SPEAKER 1: Good to know.
Good to know.
And for instance, what
is a an Oort cloud?
How did you know about that?
DENNIS E. TAYLOR:
Well, that's actually
discussed quite regularly
in the scientific articles
and so forth.
You've got the planets
going out from the sun
all the way to Pluto, which
may or may not be a planet.
Then you've got--
SPEAKER 1: That's messed
up, what they did.
DENNIS E. TAYLOR: Then
you got the Kuiper belt,
which is outside of that.
And then you've
got the Oort cloud,
which is this huge cloud
of mostly empty space.
But small, icy bodies and stuff
like that circling the sun.
And that may extend,
according to some people,
up to a light year or more out.
It's very diffuse.
SPEAKER 1: And you
get all this is just
from growing up, learning
about all these things.
Interesting.
You said you had a thick
skin from the process when
fans like me are
constantly pestering you.
Do you ever let your fans be
part of the writing process
at all?
DENNIS E. TAYLOR: There
are legal aspects to that.
If a fan makes a suggestion and
you take it and run with it,
you could get sued for
part of the royalties.
That was my idea.
You ran with my idea.
It's just a variation on the
"You Stole My Song" lawsuit.
So in the Facebook group,
Fans of the Bobiverse,
it has been made very clear
in the rules of the group
that if you bring up any kind
of an idea, it's public domain.
You have no ownership of
anything you say in that group.
So just in case somebody does
say something that makes me go,
hmmm, they don't have any
kind of legal claim to it.
And I said early on
that if somebody started
discussing details of some kind
of plot or something like that,
I would basically unsubscribe.
SPEAKER 1: Yeah.
So you kind of have to
put the earmuffs on.
DENNIS E. TAYLOR: Have
to put the blinkers on
and everything like
that, and just not look.
SPEAKER 1: OK, interesting.
I didn't know what that
world was like until now.
DENNIS E. TAYLOR: Well, that's
why fanfic is not well thought
of, if you will,
in forums and stuff
like that because it tends to be
all about copyright violation.
SPEAKER 1: Interesting.
Are there legal
implications, then,
for someone who's writing fan
fiction as well because then
they're kind of stealing your--
DENNIS E. TAYLOR: The
thing about copyright
is you have to defend
it or you lose it.
When companies sue some guy,
outside of hope for something,
it's not because they're
big, bad companies.
But, generally speaking, you
have to defend your copyright
or you lose it.
So when fanfic authors start
writing in an author's universe
without permission, the
author has a choice of--
or usually it's the
publisher, of course,
because they're the ones who
have the legal obligation
and so forth.
But they have to go after them,
or it's implied permission
to continue to do so.
SPEAKER 1: OK.
So my idea that I posted on your
blog about Micronesia taking
over Alaska with
six-year-olds in "Outland"--
DENNIS E. TAYLOR: That wasn't
going to happen anyway.
SPEAKER 1: That's tough.
Well, so I'm just going to
ask a couple random questions,
and then we'll pass
it off to the audience
and hopefully they'll have
some questions for you.
First of all, whose
brain would you
like to have mapped into a
computer besides your own?
DENNIS E. TAYLOR: Einstein.
I know it's a cliche response.
But hey, it's also
a very true one.
SPEAKER 1: What do you think
he would do with that eternity
that he had?
DENNIS E. TAYLOR: He would
make copies of himself,
and they would all get together
and start working on theories.
SPEAKER 1: Mathematics
and theories.
What about-- there's a lot
of notions of existentialism
in this book, especially between
the eternal nature of an AI
versus the ephemeral nature--
you use that word a lot
in your book.
I think I probably learned
it from your book, even--
of humans.
So did you ponder on
existentialism a lot
in that regard?
DENNIS E. TAYLOR: Well,
it's not new thoughts.
I didn't have to start
thinking about it for the book
specifically, although I
did a little bit of research
on some of the
philosophical implications.
But yeah, the whole question
of the existence and self
and stuff like that.
Well, everything comes back
to "Star Trek", doesn't it?
Transporters?
SPEAKER 1: Yeah.
So tell us about the
transporter question.
Did you already mention
that in this talk?
DENNIS E. TAYLOR: I mentioned
it in passing once before,
but for those who don't
know, the original idea
of the transporter
in "Star Trek"
was that it disassembles you
and scans you, and then creates
a duplicate of you over there.
In TNG they tried to
tweak that a little bit,
and they put in the
containment field
and tried to say that
you're actually transporting
all the molecules over.
But it was too little too late.
The basic idea is that
you're destroyed here,
and a copy of you is created
over there that thinks
it's you, but you're dead.
SPEAKER 1: It's tantamount
to painless dying.
It's interesting.
And so then I guess
you have to ask
the question of is your own
consciousness irrelevant to you
as long as your memory
and your actions go on?
But I'd say most people would
probably be against that.
DENNIS E. TAYLOR: Yeah.
Well, the philosophical
discussion usually
comes down to continuity.
If you can show continuity
all the way through your life,
then it's you.
One of the thought
experiments that's done is--
and I mention this
briefly in the book--
is if you had a stroke
and part of your brain
died, and they were
able to replace it
with an artificial neuron
or a set of neurons,
so now you're, like, 5%
artificial, are you still you?
So now you have another stroke,
and-- oh, wait a second.
This was in "Singularity Trap".
That's why you're
looking at me funny.
So now you have another stroke.
They replace more brain.
Now you're 10% artificial.
Are you still you?
You keep this up.
Now you're 90% artificial.
Someday you're 100% artificial.
Are you still you?
And the thinking
is that, if you can
draw a continuous
four-dimensional line
from the old you to the
current you without any breaks,
it's you.
And the problem with the
transporter is there's a cut.
SPEAKER 1: What about when you
take that brain that, once it's
been completely segmented over
to 100%, and then you copy it?
What's the case then?
DENNIS E. TAYLOR: Well, if
you go with the philosophy,
the copy is not you.
It's a copy of you because
there's no continuity.
SPEAKER 1: Even if you copied
it and then shuffled it
under some cups, and you
wouldn't know which is which?
DENNIS E. TAYLOR:
Well, you might not
know which is the copy of
you, but one of them is.
SPEAKER 1: One is you.
OK.
Yeah, I thought that was
interesting about the Bobs
because there's this appeal to
the eternal nature of an AI.
There's this appeal to, like,
oh, I want to live forever.
I would love to be an AI.
But that's constantly
stifled by the idea
that you can never
actually be that AI.
Your memories will be,
something like you will be,
but you will never be.
DENNIS E. TAYLOR: Yeah.
I'd still do it.
SPEAKER 1: You'd still do it.
Why would you do it?
DENNIS E. TAYLOR: Just the idea
that there's a me out there.
SPEAKER 1: Reassuring to you.
DENNIS E. TAYLOR: Yeah.
And even if it isn't
me me, it would still
have my goals and plans and
preferences and so forth.
And it would still do
what I would have done.
SPEAKER 1: So you'd be happy to
see the future being affected
by your desires and goals.
DENNIS E. TAYLOR: Yeah.
SPEAKER 1: Good answer.
Then let's see.
So with both "Outland"
and "We Are Legion"--
and I haven't read
"Singularity Trap".
I'm excited to still get
to read at least one more
book from you--
there is an infinite
number of worlds you
can create with these books.
There's nearly infinite with "We
Are Legion", it's exploration.
I guess "Outland" same thing,
but exploring differently.
How far do you think
you'll take these books?
DENNIS E. TAYLOR: I
will keep writing novels
as long as the audience
remains interested.
I have no trouble coming
up with new ideas.
I have an ideas list that's up
around 150 items at this point.
So I'm never going to get
through that in my lifetime
unless that medical
breakthrough--
SPEAKER 1: Or the AI.
DENNIS E. TAYLOR: Or
the AI thing, yeah.
But yeah, it really
comes down to popularity.
If it starts to get stale and
people stop buying the books,
then I'll cut it off and
go on to something else.
But otherwise, yeah.
Quite happy to keep going.
SPEAKER 1: Well, that's
very reassuring for me
because I can't
get enough of them.
Great.
Well, that's all the
questions I had for you.
Let's pass some questions
off to the audience. a Matt,
would you mind
tossing round the mic?
AUDIENCE: First of all,
as far as spoilers go,
I know the ship has sailed, but
the entire outline of the book
is up on that slide?
SPEAKER 1: Oh, yeah.
AUDIENCE: OK, cool.
SPEAKER 1: It wouldn't mean
much to you unless you read it.
AUDIENCE: Fair enough.
SPEAKER 1: At least, that's
what I think is accurate.
AUDIENCE: I had a question
about, I guess, philosophy.
You seem to have some
experience there.
Who have you read, or
who are your influences,
both science fiction writers
and if there's anybody,
contemporary philosophers.
DENNIS E. TAYLOR: In terms
of philosophers, I haven't--
I mean, I have listened
to "Plato's Republic"
and I've read some of the
philosophy of Socrates
and stuff like that.
But mostly, it's
research oriented.
I'm a very pragmatic person.
So I tend to read what I
need to read in order to get
to where I want to get to.
I love "The Good Place", though.
If anybody has not watched
that, it is well worth watching,
very well done.
Yeah.
I've actually
downloaded a couple
of Audible books on philosophy
specifically for the research
that I did on the Bobiverse
and on "Singularity Trap".
In terms of authors, I think
my two biggest influences
are Heinlein and
Niven, although there's
a large smattering of
Campbell and Hamilton
and everybody else
like that, too.
SPEAKER 1: Nice.
Mine are Orson Scott Card
and Dennis E. Taylor.
AUDIENCE: OK.
To pick up on that,
you're an avid reader.
You have been an avid reader of
science fiction all your life
since you were young.
Do you find yourself sometimes
taking too much of ideas
that you've read in the
past, and you find yourself
incorporating them and you have
to stop and say, what can I
do to make it my own?
DENNIS E. TAYLOR:
That actually isn't
as much of a problem in
general as most people think.
As they say in the writing
industry, ideas are cheap.
It's the execution of the
idea that makes the book.
"The Martian" is just
"Robinson Crusoe", right?
In fact, you can probably--
well, if you look at any
half dozen science fiction
or thriller movies--
"Deep Star Six",
"Leviathan", "Alien"--
they're all the same theme.
Bunch of people get
stuck in a limited space
with a monster that's
eating them one at a time.
It's a very simple idea,
but how you execute it.
"Deep Star Six", "Alien".
AUDIENCE: I actually
have two questions.
One is about the
audiobook itself.
I loved it.
I actually listened to all
your books while I was biking
and the narrator
reporter did a fantastic
job, where all of these things
I can still remember them.
So my question
is, how much input
does author have that goes
into the narration of the book?
And you also mentioned you were
editing your book for Audible.
I'm wondering what kind
of editing happens there,
and if you had that
in your mind when
you were writing that book,
The Bobiverse universe.
My second question is around--
and I apologize for
using the word--
the books would feel
a little rushed.
There's a lot of stuff.
Like you could have
made it a ten-book arc.
There's a lot of
stuff like the Madeira
or the Chinese contingent
first contact story that
would be great to know about.
Is there any plan
for a collection
of short stories in
the Bobiverse universe
that talks about those things,
even the fall of civilization
and those kind of stuff?
DENNIS E. TAYLOR: OK.
SPEAKER 1: That's
a big question.
DENNIS TAYLOR: Yeah.
Well, let's answer
the second one first.
I think the reason
that the books
would feel rushed really
comes down to my inexperience
when I was writing them.
Inexperienced
writers will either
tend to underwrite or
overwrite massively.
And part of learning the craft
is getting the mix right.
I'm an underwriter, massive
underwriter by nature.
My first draft of a book
will be 40,000 words
and then I have to figure
out how to fill it in
to make it 80,000 words.
And it usually consists
of things like dialogue.
But yeah, it really comes
down to inexperience.
If I rewrote these, I would
put a lot more detail in.
I would spend a lot more
time on some of the subplots.
And as far as short
stories and stuff
like that, yeah, that's
definitely a plan.
I've got novel ideas.
I've got short story ideas,
and they'll all come together.
To answer the
first question, I'm
sure that a big author
like John Scalzi
could demand a particular
narrator if he wanted to
and get away with it.
As a newb, I had no
say, although I suppose
if I'd kicked up a fuss--
well, maybe not.
I don't know.
Anyway, I had no idea who
Ray Porter was anyway,
so I was in no position
to do any kicking.
As it turns out, I'm very
glad they picked him.
Before he started on
the recordings, though,
Ray contacted me, and he asked
me how some of these characters
sounded to me in my head.
And Guppy is obvious.
He sounds like Akbar.
Butterworth I heard sounding
like Colonel Fowler in "Chicken
Run".
And Ray pulled it off.
I mean, he really pulled it off.
Homer sounded to me like Bill
Murray in "Ghostbusters",
for instance.
Stuff like that.
Most of them, though,
he just went with it.
AUDIENCE: So you mentioned
overwriting and underwriting
as one of the lessons you
learned in the process.
Is there anything else?
Like overall, has your
process for writing
changed as you've gotten
more experience with it?
DENNIS E. TAYLOR: There are
so many things that change,
or that you improve
on as you get better.
One of the things that I
find irritating, actually,
about my first book,
especially now,
is the degree to which Bob
shrugs, grins, rolls his eyes,
and stuff like that.
Those are beats
versus dialogue tags.
Dialogue tags are he said, he
replied, he asked, she shouted,
stuff like that.
Beats are where you perform an
action that doesn't necessarily
relate to what you're actually
saying, but establishes
who's talking.
Now, Dennis sat down, then
turned to look at the audience.
Hi, I'm me.
My repertoire for
beats was limited.
I hope I've improved
on that over time.
But yeah, that's another thing.
If I was writing it
again from scratch,
I would do a lot
better with that.
All right.
Well, if There's
no more questions--
we got one more question.
AUDIENCE: Any idea when the
Bender books are coming out?
Is Bender the bad
guy in these ones?
DENNIS E. TAYLOR:
I had originally
said that I would be trying to
publish them by summer 2019.
Right now I'm hoping to finish
them by the end of summer 2019.
I have always said
that my writing suffers
during snowboarding
season, and this year I
did a lot of
snowboarding at Whistler.
So my writing really suffered,
so I'm behind schedule.
SPEAKER 1: OK, we've got one
more question way in the back.
Tech guy.
AUDIENCE: So when
you started writing,
what did that do to
your habits of reading?
DENNIS E. TAYLOR: Oh, god.
Yeah.
This is a common problem
with writers, actually.
Once you start learning the
techniques, story arcs, all
of the things that
go into writing,
you become very aware of them.
It's just like--
SPEAKER 1: Seeing the
sausage being made?
Seeing the sausage being made?
DENNIS E. TAYLOR: Yeah, you're
seeing the sausage being made.
I now find myself much
less tolerant of books,
and for that matter,
movies and TV
shows simply because I can see
what the writer is trying to do
and I can see when they
don't quite pull it off.
And it can be eye-rolling.
SPEAKER 1: All right.
Thank you.
Well, we really
appreciate having you on.
For those of you
who are interested,
I work with the
Talks team at Google.
Feel free to approach
me afterwards and talk
about bringing your favorite
authors up on stage.
So give a round of
applause for Dennis.
[APPLAUSE]
