Pakistan we've got folks from England in
Texas two of my favorite countries my
dad was a pastor in both places and
Pakistan to people all over was a
delegation from England yesterday
homelessness out here in Portland so wow
that's my father was a pastor and
buckinghamshire late so we are now
recording so let me be that as our
official welcome to my name is Sarah
salty I'm the director of leadership and
learning programs at the Center for
partnership studies and on the behalf of
the Center for partnership studies I
want to welcome all of you to this
important conversation uncovering the
roots of violence new perspectives on
domestic violence social justice and
faith with three on Eisler Julie Owens
Ronnie Clark joining us very soon we
trust our moderator
ronita Robinson those of you who are
joining us live today we're delighted
that you're here and to those of you
listening on the replay
we welcome you as well and hope all
listeners hear something today that
shifts your own thinking about the
interconnections between violence social
justice and faith before we go any
further I want to thank our wonderful Co
sponsoring organizations who worked with
us to help get the word out about this
event including pathways to safety
international safe alliance agape Church
of Christ Adam a prevention services
coalition of Michigan faith trust
Institute North Carolina Council of
Churches and the pixel project we will
be providing links to each of these
organizations in our follow-up materials
so if you're not familiar with their
fine work you can learn more about each
of them then
and we want to especially welcome our
participants today attendees today who
are joining us from those organizations
were really delighted to have you with
us I also want to take just a moment and
thank and Amberg who you are seeing in
the chatbox today where she's helping to
take the conversation there she is also
our marketing communications coordinator
who did just a tremendous job to make
all of these partnerships possible so
thank you and I let me just quickly
check our chat and think what we will do
is I was going to introduce you now to
ronita Robinson and I think I will go
ahead and do that now if she's not able
to join us until just a bit later you
will you will know who she is
ronita is currently the CEO of the Green
Bay Wisconsin YWCA prior to that role
she has been an advocate advocate
educator and supporters for victims of
sexual and domestic violence across the
life gender and race spans she has
served as the executive director of the
committee against domestic violence I'm
sorry the committee against domestic
abuse Incorporated which is the largest
provider of domestic and sexual violence
services in southern Minnesota
ronita is also has also been the
director of the Duluth family visitation
center a program of the world renowned
domestic abuse intervention programs da
IP which many of you are familiar with
she's also served as adjunct instructor
at three Midwestern universities where
she's taught a range of courses to
undergraduate and graduate students in
education and sociology ronita designed
and directed the mirror project in
Nebraska which was a non-medical
recovery program within a 400 bed
homeless shelter in the People's City
mission of Lincoln
braska the emphasis there was on female
domestic violence survivors with life
controlling addictions Rita
ronita was also a trainer with Dai P on
post separation violence bringing to
light how institutions designed to help
victims often collude with abusers
because they failed to recognize their
insidious tactics her favorite
accomplishment she says is raising two
compassionate sons and we will embrace
Vinita with open arms as soon as she's
able to be with us I know that that our
wonderful Ann is working behind the
scenes to see if we can't facilitate
that in happening I think what what what
I will do and I apologize I don't have
my formal introductory materials for our
panelists today so I'm going to invite
each of you to introduce yourself as you
begin
ronita has those materials with her and
hopefully as she rolls in we'll be able
to hear hear more about each of you in a
more formal way but I think what we'll
do if that sounds good to you all is to
begin with Julie and Julie if you would
introduce yourself
you that um but and then let me know as
you would like to see the slides
advancing for your for your introductory
remarks great okay thank you well
welcome everyone it's a pleasure to be
here it's really an honor to be here
with dr. Eisler someone I've admired for
many years and so it's great to be here
with Ron - and Renee de when we get her
Thank You Sara
I am a survivor of domestic violence I'm
going to tell you a bit about my story
and I've been working in the field now
for almost 30 years and I grew up in a
pastor's home and that's why the the
issue faith of course is very important
to me because it was a big part of my
upbringing and has been a big part of my
my entire life I've worked with domestic
violence victims for many many years in
a many different capacities and now am
doing training and technical assistance
consultation expert witness work that
type of thing so so a bit about me my
background I grew up in the South it was
a pretty conservative background
fortunately I grew up in a family that
was really loving and wonderful and my
parents are still to this day after 65
years of marriage amazing role models
for partnership in equality and so that
really set me on a path to knowing what
I wanted in a relationship and what I
expected and in spite of growing up in
an environment where I don't I think in
the rural Kentucky I don't think there
was a lot of empowerment going on of
women at the time back in the 50s but my
as I said my family was very much
supportive of me thinking for myself and
making my own decisions but the era in
which I grew up was very it in the
church in the South I think was very
different than it is to some extent
today and there was some backlash that
started to develop after in the 60s
after the women's movement began and so
a couple of the leading figures in
evangelical Christian Church in which I
was growing up had some things to say
that were influential and disturbing I
would say to me now I wanted to just
share a little bit of that too so you
get a sense of kind of what I was
growing up with one leader said I
listened to feminists and all their all
the radical gals most of them are
failures they've blown it some of them
that have been married but they married
some Kaspar milquetoast who asked
permission to go to the bathroom
these women just need a man in the house
that's all they need
most of the feminists need a man to tell
him what time of day it is and to lead
them home and they blew it and they're
mad at men and feminists hate men
they're sexist they hate men that's
their problem and that's from river late
Reverend Jerry Falwell and then another
pastor was very influential when I was
growing up because of his television
ministry was Pat Robertson and he said
the feminist agenda is not about equal
rights for women it's about a socialist
anti-family palette that encourages
women to leave their husbands kill their
children practice witchcraft destroy
Katherine so suffice it to say I had my
work cut out for me talking about
violence against women and gender
equality in the conservative Southern
Church
fortunately we've come a long way and
obviously no one has to be an time man
to be Pro woman or Pro Partnership which
is what we're talking about today
domination of no one by anyone but
partnership and all it's wonderfulness
so what happened and if we could see the
first slide this was kind of my growing
up the teachings in the church about the
family so we were taught that God in the
person of Christ was the covering for
all Christians and in the family the
model was that Christ would be the head
and then the husband and then the wife
and then the children and as you can see
and this was taught and still continues
to be taught quite a bit in the Jellicle
church and so the natural order of the
family was taught and so women who were
being abused would be taught things like
pray stay and obey I got married when I
was 32 I certainly didn't expect to be
abused he was very kind
before we married but then he became
very psychologically abusive right away
and when I asked him why was he doing
this to me and why didn't he do it
before we got married he just said you
never would have married me so I wasn't
quite sure exactly how to proceed so I
did talk to pastors I talked to the
pastor of areas I talked to counselors
including Christian counselors and I was
really encouraged to work on the
relationship no one identified what was
going on as abuse because I wasn't being
hit and I kind of believed the same
myths that everybody else did I guess
about domestic violence you know I
thought victims were people that were
getting beat up all the time that wasn't
my experience although eventually there
were a lot of threats but my religion
was a part of my understanding I think
that male privilege that is part of the
way I was raised and taught I just I
hadn't really thought a whole lot about
it when I left my husband who I filed
for divorce because the abuse got so
extreme the psychological abuse and the
threats he came back and broke in the
house and waited for me and my father to
kill us
and he assaulted us it was very brutal
and we said we survived it and in doing
so we got a big lesson about domestic
violence that we never wanted and so we
started talking to the church about it
and getting educated ourselves
Reverend Murray fortunes at faith trust
Institute one of our sponsor was very
influential in my life and she made a
documentary called broken vows that
tells the story of different women of
faith who have been abused and her book
keeping the faith was very influential
for me going to a domestic violence
support group was a powerful thing for
me as well and that's where I learned
about River Murray fortune and so we
started a shelter transitional shelter
at our church and an interfaith
coalition and that kind of got my work
underway I left special it I went back
to to college and that's where I was
introduced to RIANZ book the chalice in
the blade and that really opened
my mind on a whole other level to
understand the history of women and the
oppression of women and the intersection
of that with other oppressions and
particularly violence in all of its
forms and being informed in that way
really changed me that it changed how I
saw the world it changed how I saw
religion and I understood that we had an
awful lot of work to do it's just a
matter of just trying to hold
accountable individual men who abuse
women but really changing society and
that's what Rihanna I sir talks is
talking about in her book chousen blade
most of you read it I presume and the
partnership model so if we can look at
the next slide I will just share with
you that this is the this is kind of
this is a graphic we use developed in
Duluth Minnesota and it's called the
power and control wheel and this is how
we teach domestic violence and when this
was introduced to me and my support
group for the first time I remember
saying oh my gosh where we all marry did
the same man because all the women
around the table were telling the same
stories and so the different forms of
abuse that women experiencing their
intimate partnerships are here and the
physical abuse and the and sexual abuse
are on the outside of that wheel then
they are also possible and very powerful
when they're happening I moved on and
learned more from dr. icers work and
others I began to learn how domestic
violence and other forms of violence
against women are influenced by our
culture in large ways so if you can show
us the next slide the cultural
influences around power and control and
domestic violence coercive control
intimate partner abuse there are so many
institutions that you can see here
traditions and values that
keep power and control and intimate
relationships in the hands of males and
learning this even further informed me
about what systems were going to need to
change and how a paradigm shift would
have to underpin all of this moving for
partnership to domination from in order
to address sexism and racism inequality
all of the oppressions are connected
because someone's always on top and
someone's on the bottom and people we
don't want people divided into groups
and we're going to have to work together
so I met dr. Katherine Clark Cregar who
was one of the founders of Christians
for Biblical equality and she was
someone who taught me so much she was a
biblical scholar who read her Bible from
the original Greek in Hebrew and she
taught me a lot about things that the
Bible said and didn't say some which I
had been taught miss taught and learning
that changed me further and I think the
next slide is is it I think it might be
that list so these are some of the
things that I learned I had
misunderstood because of the way I've
been taught about the creation of man
and women that that women and men
weren't created equal in the eyes of God
I didn't know that wasn't true that
husbands are to be the heads of their
wives they and that their there's a
hierarchy in Christian marriage also
something that is a result of
mistranslation that wives must submit to
their husbands but nothing about
husbands submitting to their wives and
we know it is the the true translation
is around mutual submission and I should
just note that the true translation of
head in the context that it has been
misinterpreted from main source like
head of a river teachings around divorce
the the inability divorce a prohibition
against divorce and the theology of
suffering that it's my cross to bear I
just have to you know I just have to
live with this and forgiveness a
misunderstanding around just needing to
always forget it even when someone
hadn't repented so these are things out
though in my thirty years of working
with women in the church I found these
to be as dr. Murray fortune says either
roadblocks or resources and I've worked
hard now to educate pastors and faith
leaders around these things because so
often like everything else these are
traditions and beliefs that are passed
down and most people don't read the
scriptures in the original Greek and
Hebrew I know I don't but I am educated
by it some who have done so thankfully
the next slide I want to just share with
you is really important because this is
the Equality will also developed at the
Duluth domestic abuse intervention
project this is a picture of a healthy
relationship and what's what's important
about it is that it's all about
mutuality partnership trust respect
shared responsibility shared parenting
honesty and accountability so if you
look at the power control wheel and then
you look at the equality wheel you'll
see that they're pretty much mirror
opposites but still in the church and in
religion we know that it isn't always
taught is it so there are several camps
in the evangelical church today
complementarianism and egalitarianism
which believe different things about how
men and women were created and whether
or not they're equal and there's one
more slide I've just wanted to point out
to you and this is another version of
the Equality we'll do we have that Sarah
oh it didn't okay
well with I just wanted to mention that
I did find one I thought I'd put it on a
slide maybe I didn't but this week came
across one where equality had been
removed from the middle and I realized
that there's a reason for that because
there are a lot of people in religion in
church who don't want to see women
getting beaten but they also don't
believe that they are equal to men and
to me that's the linchpin that's the
bottom line when we are teaching about
violence against women and their
oppression in religion I think that's
something that we need to continue to
talk about and to address and to
challenge
thank you so much Julie
I appreciate your your opening remarks
so much and I'm and thank you for
introducing yourself you're really
really pleased that we now are joined by
ronita who I want to we need I don't
know if you were hearing when I
introduced so we need it I know that you
if you'd like to kind of take us back a
half step and and offer your opening
remarks that would be wonderful if you'd
rather just go straight forward into
introducing Ron that would be fine too
how would you like to proceed as a
courtesy I want to let run and the end
go ahead and then at the end we'll see
how it is and then I can go jump into
some of those remarks perfect do you
have a little intro of Ron you'd like to
offer I think and so thank you so much
Julie for that sharing and Ron Clark is
the minister of the agape Church of
Christ in downtown Portland Oregon he's
been in ministry for over 30 years and
he's an adjunct instructor for Portland
seminarians co-chair of the Pacific
Northwest Society of biblical
literature's world of early Christianity
in the new testament scripture section
he's authored books and articles
concerning intimate partner violence and
theology Bible studies and ministry and
a marriage and marriage and family
ministry ron has a Masters of Divinity
and a doctorate of ministry from Harding
School of Theology in Memphis Tennessee
he and his wife Laurie planted a gothic
Church of Christ in downtown Portland in
2007 and lead ministries with various
state county and local government
agencies addressing your own house
lessness prostitution abuse trafficking
and developing healthy marriages Ron and
Laurie have been married since 1987 and
have three sons thank you I put 1987
because I knew that year I just always
get it wrong 30 31 32 so thank you I
feel very honored to be part of this
discussion and reading Leon's book and
then meeting her wonderful generous
woman and meeting Sarah and Ann Ann as
well and then I've known Julie for quite
a while and just impressed with her work
I remember seeing Julie on broken vows
first video we saw about this and you
know when I met her I told Laurie I said
we met a movie star and she don't say
that to her so so I wanted to kind of
share in the 10 minutes kind of my our
journey my journey basically I grew up I
was the oldest of two boys and my dad
was a fighter pilot and he was
controlling he wasn't physically abusive
what I grew up you know with the dad
that used to tell me things like you're
just a damn jock you'd pass up screwing
a girl he waiks
I know that's harsh dude that's what my
dad would say to me he did a lot of
things like that like you need when I
was a senior you need to date a freshman
she'll let you do what you want to her
and it was you know I was I was in
sports I was a good student but I kept
going
my mom drugged me to church
as an atheist and my mom literally drug
my brother and I but I got in I started
going to Fellowship of Christian
Athletes with some of my my friends on
the sports team and I'm thankful that
those guys were in my life because I
would look back now and say yeah there
was probably misogyny in that but they
at least helped me to get a good head
about how do you treat people how do you
treat women so flat forward in the
ministry I got converted in in
University of Missouri 21 and after
being in ministry a while Laurie and I
were in a very small rural area in
Missouri and we were working with a
small church and at a ministerial
ministerial Alliance all the ministers
come together once a month we have
discussions who was the director of the
newest youth shelter showed up and the
shelter that it was new and what was
going on so we were pretty excited about
it so Laurie and I started helping with
the abuse shelter and we'd say what can
we do and they'd have us you know
working on fences mowing cleaning then
we started doing pizza parties and you
know he's developing into a relationship
where they began to send women and the
children to our church they invited us
to trainings I remember one time our
three elders older guys who were World
War two vets and I went to our first of
these training we're completely blown
away and maybe traumatized I guess is
what the shelter told us but you know
these guys were like that ain't right
you know you don't treat women that way
and you know I remember in this those
early stages Laurie getting the people
at church to have a training we learned
from the shelter that they needed faith
community and that faith was important
and you know we we did a lot of Bible
studies with the women surveys and we
found that this was a shelter that said
we need the churches here when we left
and moved to Portland she you know we
were telling her goodbye and hugging her
and the director said do you remember
that day when we met at the ministers
meeting I said yeah a pivotal point in
my life you know and transformed she
said you're the only church that showed
up
you go to Portland that's that's how it
is so coming to Portland it's been this
it was the same thing we started working
in the community agencies invited us on
we did you know Attorney General sexual
assault task force trafficking agencies
getting appointed to the task force and
all along agencies have said we need you
at the table we want you at the table we
need the faith community here and there
you know there were conferences I spoke
at that were paid by agencies you know
they wanted us out there what started
happening then as we started doing
clergy trainings in Portland and I
started writing all of this you know as
the kids were saying you need to write
this up publish it all this so we
started doing that we started running
into issues that faith communities
weren't as excited about coming to the
table and so we had advocates who said
we need you at the table faith
communities weren't interested in coming
to the table so on the next slide that
you'll see it's an interesting study
done by the sojourners and life way up
next study it's sorry it's a study that
was done with pastors on the next there
we go
and you can see that you know almost 50%
of pastors rarely or never speak about
domestic violence and the LifeWay
research is sojourners research in 2013
revealed just attitudes that pastors
have that most pastors believe that
domestic violence is not a problem it's
not common in their church they still do
couples counseling
you heard what Julie what julie was
telling you back in the 50s is still
going on today you know I've got I teach
seminary and I've got students telling
me that this is still going on we work
with women we're still going on so
clergy have developed this you know this
reputation of being necessary in the
movement but we're not very effective
and that's been the concern that we've
been having and we've been you know I
would say we've been butting heads with
this and so what has happened is we've
started you know as a text person I've
been going back to the text know the
Hebrew the Greek the theology stuff and
saying what is it that we bring to the
table
and you know I would suggest and I would
have been writing about and sharing
mostly and working with individuals is
the biblical text tells us that God
listens to the voice of the oppressed
now the gospel the Torah of the you know
the Exile the biblical message that the
preaching Proclamation always comes from
the margins does it come from the place
of power and of course in Portland this
has expanded into our homeless ministry
the black lives matter movement our work
with police and talking about racism in
there you know underlying racism that in
Portland is very racist City you know we
adjourn Estill reminded us of that
you know we have all of these people to
talk about how progressive and weird we
are we're a racist city and what we're
seeing is that the the proclamation of
the of the faith community must come
from the margins what we've been dealing
with as a church planters and we read a
big church for eight years
wonderful group of people we left and
planted a church in inner city and we've
just seen this complete shift of how
Christianity is viewing themselves with
church growth material you know it's
about big it's about better it's about
rich it's about power it's not about the
concept of God hearing the voice of the
oppressed we see this in the Exodus God
hears the voice of the slaves God
confronts Pharaoh of the person in power
in the Exile the people of God are under
you know the Babylonian Empire God goes
to the captives Jesus is homeless
Jesus is marginalized he comes from a
lower class family his mom was a widow I
mean he comes from the margins and what
we're we're seeing is that faith
communities aren't realizing that
message and when it comes to domestic
violence you have passages such as
proverbs 20:1 you know the person who
turns their ear to the cry of the breath
will cry out and not be heard Matthew 5
where Jesus says if you've got something
or your brother has something against
you lay it down at the altar go make it
right with them
first Peter 3:7 husbands who are harsh
with their wives God doesn't hear their
prayers I mean there's this whole
underlying message that God hears the
voice of the oppressed what we're seeing
is that the faith communities aren't
doing that or aren't doing a very good
job of that and this is why we don't
talk about things in faith to means like
toxic masculinity which we're working or
even when we say repentance they talk
more about forgiveness and repentance
repentance
I have recovering people people in
recovery say repentance is making amends
you know you don't understand what that
means watch My Name Is Earl I mean
that's all about making amends but that
is repentance abusive individuals need
to repent it's more than saying I'm
sorry so on the next slide what we've
been doing as we work with agencies and
I get asked by like area matter groups
say come on in and tell us about you
know what text do we do when we work
with Christian their faith communities
or you know Jewish people and Jewish
individuals Islamic and we say you know
what we've been saying is actually let's
just decide that it's the text the text
is actually trying to promote peace in
controlling people who are using the
text you know we all have the text and
you know that we can't blame the text
for making us controlling we're
controlling because we live in a
cultural that that oppresses women that
doesn't listen to the voice of those who
are vulnerable so we've suggested to the
at least to the intervention providers
controlling and violent people use
sacred text to control and manipulate
and exploit others peaceful people use
sacred text to treat people with respect
and enhance themselves and others and
then of course we go on that the the
sacred texts teach peace love harmony
mercy but in America at least and I'll
be going to Malawi in July to work with
congregations in the UN there and will
same thing over there in those cultures
America those cultures other cultures
for men to be compassionate merciful
loving and carrying us the sign of
weakness
texts don't bring that out now I
understand that the sacred texts you
know
and part of working with the text is we
try to go and look at the text work
through it but I always suggest that the
texts are meant to promote peace and so
can't justify oppressing others by using
the text faith communities have this
resource even though people want to talk
about Ephesians 5
it begins with verse 21 submit to each
other and Lori and I wrote a book on
marriage and we say marriage is about
mutual respect mutual submission mutual
support mutual encouragement but most
people don't begin there they begin with
verse 22 attacking the wife and they
don't talk about the fact that you know
the husband has a you know three times
as many verses and they're much more
challenging and they're calling him to
be nurturing so to kind of summarize in
my in my short time here you know just
the idea this has been my journey and
one thing that I've seen is that the
agencies we work with save the faith
communities we need you we need you as
part you bring something to the table
and I think what table is very powerful
but we we as faith communities need to
see the Texas promoting peace we need to
be a promoting peace and confronting
violence and holding a batterer is
accountable thank you so much for that
ride and I appreciate it mostly the
proclamation always comes from the
margins and just to kind of give us an
in an image of the heart of Christ and
so back to Julie's power and control
world I wanted to just note that the
power control wheels are actually
amazing instruments and try painting a
picture of how violins how people use
the power that they have to control
others and physical dynamics of the
power and control wheel aren't often
talked about but what's in the center of
any power and control wheel is what the
people are after or what they get and
then the spokes and all of the pictures
are how they do it and then on the
outside is kind of what holds it
together and so when we are talking
about this idea of
new perspective on domestic violence and
social justice and faith is important
that in the faith community as is and
still meant for many believers that have
been a part of the church for in their
lives is that those scriptural
components actually hold together all of
those beliefs and then the experiences
of seeing people with the power in the
hierarchies be able to use those
scriptures they get grafted into us from
the time they were yet high and it takes
really an unpacking of all of that for
us to change repent and go in a
different direction and so it's
important for us to be paying attention
to those things as we try to bring this
whole conversation of having a new
perspective and in essence permission to
behave differently than we've always
behaved and then we've always been
exposed to and so thank you very much
and I'll kind of weave some of my
initial comments in here as we kind of
move through the next but we do want to
make sure that we have time for
Rianne and then time for our audience to
ask questions there are a number of
fantastic
questions being chatted in on the side
of our panel and we want to make sure
that we get to some of those things and
so I will just kind of shift gears and
move forward and reading some
information on and Eisler JD who is an
internationally know who is
internationally known as a system
scientist attorney working for the human
rights of women and children and author
of groundbreaking books such as the
chalice and the blade our history our
future now in 26 foreign editions and
the real wealth of nations creating a
caring economics dr. Iceland has
received many honors including honorary
PhDs and Peace and Human Rights Award
she lectures worldwide with women venues
including the United Nations General
Assembly the u.s. Department of State
congregational briefings universities
corporations
friends keynotes and events hosted by
heads of state rien is a president of
the center for partnership studies
dedicated to research and education on
social and economic transformation she's
also a co-founder of CPS is caring
economy campaign and the Nobel Peace
Laureate Betty Williams of the spirit
Alliance to stop human intimate violence
save and editor-in-chief of the
interdisciplinary journal of partnership
studies an online peer reviewed journal
housed at the University of Minnesota
which was actually inspired by iceless
work Ram welcome thank you and I'm so
glad
ronita that is finally get you yes thank
all of you Julie Ron Juanita
Sarah and behind the scenes and all of
you who are here in the chat box and
even those who haven't started all of
you who have come here this is very
exciting because what this is about
really and I will start also with my own
story emulating both Julie and Ron on
this but what this is really about is
really to look at the roots of the
violence that we are all finally finally
acknowledging I mean I still remember
when the police if the woman was
battered they take the guy walk him
around the block and send him home and
then we're here in the United States and
of course I don't have to tell you well
maybe I do but in many nations still
today there are no laws against domestic
violence and that for example in some
world regions so-called owner mergers
are still condoned and not prosecuted so
this notion of top-down control of you
know that wonderful graphic that you
showed to
is still very much embedded in our
culture I think is that families do not
arise in isolation they are part of the
larger culture so if we are to be
successful we really have to pay lots of
attention changing to changing the
larger culture because otherwise as both
Ron and Julie have emphasized we are on
the margins as unfortunately is still
the case in so many faith communities no
I said I would talk a little about
myself and really this leads directly to
this work which is really the work of
cultural as well as personal and family
transformation is very deeply rooted way
back in my childhood as a child refugee
from the Holocaust with my parents and
can I have the first slide please Sarah
and I that experience of having to flee
with my parents after seeing my father
my father are dragged away by the
estoppel on crystal night which was so
called because of all the wealth of the
glass that was broken in Jewish homes in
synagogues in businesses are seeing him
dragged away by the Gestapo and by a
miracle my mother managed with what I
today call spiritual courage the courage
to stand up against I injustice she
could have been killed many people were
killed that night she got him back and
we left
the knight was carrying what we could
with us we managed because fortunately
my family had some means to purchase not
only exit visas from the Nazis but also
to purchase a an admission to Cuba where
I grew up because the Nazis confiscated
that's a official version for her after
robbery everything my parents had I grew
up in the industrial slums in Havana I
mean all of these experience led me
precisely to the question that's on this
slide why when we humans have such a
capacity for consciousness caring and
creativity as evidenced by all of the
wonderful people here at this webinar
why as our world seen so much cruelty
insensitivity and destructiveness and
these are really the questions that
animated
my research are many many years later
and I should also say that there was
another pivotal experience in my life
which happened in the late 60s when
although it was thousands of other women
in the West I suddenly woke up as if
from a long drugged sleep to realize
that as much as having been born Jewish
it almost cost me my life having been
born female had also enormous ly
affected everything in on my life
actions not just that the way I saw
myself and that was huge so it was at
that point that I started my activism
you know in the at the time called the
women's liberation movement and I've
always been so irritated by having it
called women's live I mean we wouldn't
call black liberation black live it's
it's a symptom of something that I
really want to get to which is that we
have all inherited a culture in which
anything associated with
women and with this the feminine caring
caregiving non-violence is considered
subordinate inferior is devalued and
this is really the basic problem can I
have the next slide please
what to make a long story short and this
is a story told in all of my books and
many articles and of course many
speeches what came up with my
multidisciplinary cross-cultural
research trying to answer the questions
of my childhood was a completely new
frame for looking at society which and
Families because as I said families we
have to really start looking at families
including family violence in this larger
frame of what kind of culture or
subculture are we dealing with and
rather than the old categories of right
versus left religious or secular Eastern
versus Western or you know them all and
you also notice something very
interesting about those categories none
of them pay particular if any attention
to the cultural construction of gender
relations and parent-child relations in
other words family relations so this is
not by accident and this series a
function doesn't it it maintains the
devaluation of the female half of
humanity of course and anything
associated with it so can I have the
rest of these likes thank you Sarah
you're right there with me so what i
started to see was that transcending
these categories because we've had
oppressive and the violence a societies
in every one of our conventional
categories right lifts religious
circular Eastern Western are two
underlying social configurations on one
side is where I for lack of a name
one denomination system and the other
one the partnership system and these are
very useful lenses for analyzing and
also really intervening more effectively
because that's what this is about it's
not only about helping survivors but
preventing changing the culture so that
it'll never be completely violence free
sometimes we humans lose it but look at
what we really have here in a nomination
system there are rigid rankings and
hierarchies of domination in both the
family in the state as as Julie's
diagram so beautifully showed where as
in a partnership oriented society and
it's never it's it was a matter of
degree it's these principles are linking
neutral respect and what I've called
hierarchies of actualization rather than
hierarchies of domination in both family
and state and why we need new words new
language if we're going to change
thinking you know we know from a
linguistic psychology that the
categories the social categories we have
available channel are thinking don't
they I mean take matriarch and
patriarchy you know the two sides of
elimination coins partnership is the
real alternative and we haven't had that
so and we need a word like hierarchical
actualization because yes we need
parents we need teachers we need leaders
we need managers but power doesn't have
to be this power over you know the power
to control that goes wrong and and Julie
noted is really at the heart isn't it
at the root of the violence it's I am
entitled to control you and so this
requires of course rigid gender
stereotypes that rank men over women as
well as masculinity over femininity and
yes it requires violence and I really
want
you to think about that for a moment
because ultimately what maintains them
in nation systems whether is in the
family or whether it's in the nation
whether it's in the family of nation is
really fear and the threat of force
that's how the nomination system is
constructed and you have this built in
violence so that child and wife feeding
and warfare are are built into the
system by contrast while they're
obviously you as I said you know you're
gonna have some violence erupted once in
a while in a partnership structure in a
system where the values are different
you where you have gender partnership
and where you have the valuing of caring
caregiving and violence in women men and
social and economic policy which is what
so many of our scriptures are actually
about aren't they accept those are not
the ones that people who want to be on
top right whether it's as heads of
family or heads of states I mean they
don't they don't focus on those but we
have to refocus attention and yes in
these in partnership systems nurturing
and sustaining life is highly valued and
the violence is not needed to maintain
the hierarchies of domination so this is
why can I have the next slide culture
change is so important and one of the
instruments now that have been used and
I'm trying to condense the tremendous
amount of of information into a very
short presentation here is we have to
really pay close attention to
gender-based socialization which we have
inherited from more rigid domination
times and when I talk of more rigid
domination times I want you to really
think not just of you know Isis for
example which is a miracle if but a
really example of or
or some of the would be Isis you know of
religious fundamentalism which is you
know theocratic control top-down control
in the state or thrive a rigid
subordination of women in families that
are highly punitive right a violence is
built into the system and of course on
these very gender stereotypes in which
boys are taught that their identity is
defined by not being feminine right by
not being caring by not being nonviolent
I mean this is this toxic masculinity
that we're just beginning to unpack I
mean it's been studied now this is
recent stuff you know and I want to say
that the sign of hope is that in the
last decades men studies women studies
gender studies have come on the scene
but there's still ghettoized
you know whereas they actually need to
be part of the general conversation
which is beginning to happen sacredness
with for example this understanding of
quote male entitlement that's part of
the domination system isn't it and the
me to movement but what I'm trying to
say is it I'm being very nonlinear here
is that we're beginning to leave some of
this rigid gender socialization behind
in some aspects of our culture but not
in all and I am suggesting to you that
we really have to make this a top
priority can I have the next slide
because how we socialize children is not
just a gender issue it is a core human a
social issue that's how we learn what it
means to be human
we're both boys learn what it means to
be a human male and where girls learn
what is supposed to be human female and
for girls to continue to be
indoctrinated into subservience and
think about it whether it's the racism
in the United States or whether it's
Shia versus Sunni in the Middle East is
this in group versus out group thinking
that's modeled by this male superior
female inferior model of humanity and it
is not coincidental and I cannot repeat
this enough that cultures and
subcultures that are racist that are you
know enemy oriented conquest oriented
really but also view and have
internalized this male superior female
inferior and quote masculine as
mystifying really in domination systems
as that's just how it is well it isn't
how it is there are many cultures going
way back I mean I won't go into this but
I mean in the terrorism Glade I
described I hope millennia of our
prehistory or that oriented more to
partnership there are we're moving in a
partnership direction today there are
nations Sweden Finland Norway where we
see much more gender equality and not
coincidentally what we see there is the
unpacking you know is Ron and Julie Sid
of this old model and and Peace Studies
and laws against violence against women
and children are not coincidental in
these more partnership oriented
societies it's part of a configuration
next slide please
so what I'm really saying is that the
contemporary questioning of
stereotypical gender roles and relations
is nothing less than questioning what it
means to be human and this is route
stuff because only as we
disentangle masculinity from violence
domination and entitlement and so-called
femininity from subordination you know
you that wonderful wheel that you saw
and that wonderful diagram that you saw
I mean only as we unpack and
disentangled this can we truly build
safer more caring families and societies
so what I I'm not saying that we should
stop doing all the wonderful work on the
ground that so many of you are doing it
is essential and it is essential yes to
bring this information into faith
communities and these tools at the same
time what I'm suggesting to you is that
we have to really all participate in
working for fundamental cultural
transformation from domination to
partnership because if we don't do this
can I have the next slide please
with pain we fail to pay attention to
something that really takes us to lead
to the wider picture now to that
historically fiscal priorities have
followed gendered values where women are
devalued so-called so-called masculine
because by now you know we're nothing to
do with anything inherent in women or
men I've been caring men like Ron like
my wonderful partner and husband they
just have a hard time in domination
systems don't they because there there's
this priceless wimps Assisi's right
whereas they are actually men who have
reclaimed a part of their true true
humanity for goodness sakes so but but
in domination system you know domination
violence become fiscal priority so what
do you have you have higher investments
and weapons Wars prisons where as in as
we move more and more towards
partnership where women are highly
valued yes so-called feminine priorities
caring caregiving you know a food for
all children health care for all
children I mean you know what I'm
talking about and recognition
of the importance of the work of care
which is one of the major reasons that
women and we see that not only in the
market but in in in the United States
where professions such as caregiving are
so poorly paid and so many immigrant
women African American women are poor
because that work is not recognized but
we see it worldwide because yes
worldwide women are in the mass of the
world's poor one of the major reasons is
this an evaluation of care work and not
to speak of this evaluation of
non-violence but anyway in more
partnership oriented societies you do
have higher investment in care of humans
and nature because the two go together
and of course you have less violence so
do I have another slider is this my last
slide oh well this is my last slide so I
just want to close by saying again that
I'm not saying that we shouldn't work on
intervention we have to and we have to
bring the faith communities into this at
the same time I want you to really think
of prevention and is working on the
roots of violence through understanding
first of all the domination elements
we've inherited and we're trying to move
away from and by understanding the core
elements of the partnership culture and
that yes gender and childhood must be
considered in rebuilding society in a
more equitable caring and nonviolent way
I thank you thank you thank you yeah and
excellent very great I think what's
interesting is you all share three very
different perspectives in terms of your
story and Lois evident is that each one
of you received messages and your
experiences that
some expectations to them and oftentimes
the messaging said that violence was you
could use violence to get power or you
were powerful if you use violence and
then of course affects the attitudes and
I think that the education piece as you
move towards a partnership model is
primary and so just given people again
permission to think very differently
about how they've ever thought about
what it is to have power and to use it
in a way that's honorable to the human
spirit is just a great conversation to
be in one of the things that I had in my
opening remarks was that the reality is
we all use violence and I think that
unless our hearts are change and then
how much violence we use is really the
only difference amongst every human
being in this world and when we're
giving permission to do something like
really you are saying others been
violence for community building and for
relationship negotiations I think
there's something Marvel is kind of
erupts and so we have there is a lot of
collective experience on the panel and
so what I want to do is just probably
ask one or two questions of the panel
and then move to a short period of
questions from our audience and so one
of I guess the greater question said is
might shed some light on this whole idea
of social justice and human rights is
why violence specifically certain types
of violence against certain types of
either people who or marginalized
populations why hasn't it been
considered a social justice or human
rights issue well I will jump in and I
see how late it is getting to because we
started
so I would like to make I can address
that question I think we all did I mean
when you have a system that depends on
violence to maintain certain rankings of
domination you're going to hide that
because at least but you don't hide it
in some societies let let's be clear I
mean in some societies a man's quote
honor is associated with his amount of
control over subordinates starting with
women and children but also quote
inferior men you see that in tribal
societies to this you know I mean the
Middle East for example in Isis is it's
a good example of that but obviously the
answer to that question is that these
groups have been so devalued that this
type of social organization and using
violence to maintain it was considered
necessary normal even moral and that's
our challenge but could we go I mean if
I may say two questions to discussing
with the audience I mean giving every
panelist a chance to add to to to to to
chime in on this question and then just
go quickly to come to conversing with
our wonderful participants if that's
okay absolutely and so there have been
several fantastic questions
I thought maybe Julian wrong want to
chime in on this okay I'm sorry I think
he's you did a great job on the head so
I don't I don't think we need to add to
it really I think you you covered it
Rhianna yeah and I think it's and I and
I think it's very well said I think we
can also add humiliate it's it's the use
of violence to humiliate others and you
know having having boys who play
football and I've had to talk with
coaches about using feminine terms
to put on line you know and I said we
you know it and and they've we've all
been raised that way but it's a way of
humiliating someone else and so we
humiliate females and anything labeled
feminist you know and I'll add because I
think you know when I talk about
domestic violence you know I didn't
really define it other than to show the
power of control well I think most women
who have been abused their experiences
not necessarily physical abuse that it's
that coercive control is that taking
away of freedoms it's not just what a
man who's abusive does to his partner
it's what he robs her of her liberty her
freedoms her her self-determination and
I think this is underestimated in terms
of how it impacts women in general and
it's not necessarily against the law
those of you who live in England and
France and some other places
psychological abuse is against the law
and although some might say coercive
control and psychological abuse are two
different things I think both of them
are extraordinarily damaging whether
you're talking about threats or you're
talking about taking away someone's
rights human rights I really want a
second that's because I think that it's
amazing to me I mean I've worked so long
on bringing the human rights of women
and children to the fore for decades
it's amazing to me that this has only
started to happen because of this kind
of work in the last several decades I
mean we're talking about the majority of
humanity for goodness sakes sacredness
let's get to let's get to our wonderful
participant attendees and Sarah have you
be collecting questions or what we
thought we would do is as promised are
if if you are here with us from one of
our co-sponsoring organizations
I'd like to invite you now to chat your
questions and we'll take a couple of
those first and then move to some of the
wonderful many questions from our other
knees as well there are as you can
imagine for more wonderful questions
than we will have time for today
but I want to suggest a couple things
one is that where there are already sort
of some talks about a potential second
part to this webinar there's so much
more to talk about then you'll have this
is just really a very beginning point
today so keep that in mind and also
thank you for for your questions they're
always provocative for insight and
awareness for everyone whether or not
the we have time to answer them
vertically today in this session so let
me scroll down too so let's let's take
George Kilpatrick's
comment question of whether we might
speak a bit to the intersection of
poverty and domestic violence we know
we've talked about other forms of
intersectionality here and the way in
which our domination structures of
gender relations impact relations across
all lines difference but how do we think
about how might we think about poverty
in particular around this issues of
violence well should I go first please I
just wrote a blog about Adam rippen's
comment about Tonya Harding and I think
if you've watched Tonya Harding's movie
she was a she was a woman from tides by
a man and how the system treated her as
a poor in their words white trash you
know using their words how they treated
her as a poor individual I think it
shows that we we treat poverty domestic
violence people of color we have that
same attitude that they're complaining
they're they're incent they're
oversensitive they don't see reality as
it really is and we I think I think
we've we feminized groups of individuals
and I see that violence and poverty as
we see that them is not being credible
we can add children in that highest
highest sexual assault survivors or
females 12 to 15 you know what do we say
about little girls though I think all of
that is is is a group of people that we
feel we don't need to listen to that's
my thought thank you I take that to the
systemic level again which is the I
always like to look at both the trees
and the forest and what I see is that
domination systems artificially produced
poverty variety of means all the way
from miss distribution of resources to
invest you know I mean we were snoring
and weapons and caring for people for
example and you know we need some
weapons in a world that were ants to
still in some places much more to
domination but but there are limits here
but we also have to understand that this
intersectionality is not coincidental
that it's part of a system artificially
creates inequality right I mean not that
sameness you see we're talking about
equal valuing an equal opportunity not
about sameness I think that we have to
take into account the fact that has been
well documented that worldwide women and
children are the mass of the world's
poor and the poorest of the poor I mean
let's unpack some of this really look at
it and as I said you know I mean part of
the reason that immigrant women and
African American women are really you
know that the wage gap is huge is
because of the deep
you Asia of this work of care
it's the misogyny that intersects with
the racism Thanks with the economic
equality that's why I really urge you to
think of it in terms of partnership and
domination systems right well I don't
again I you know I feel like it so much
has already been said I don't know that
I can really add to it I think you know
if we're gonna stop gender-based
violence we have to stop raising
batterers we have to stop raising boys
who see themselves as different than
girls and that that means that religion
parenting social structures everything
that underpins a society and culture has
to shift and it seems insurmountable at
some times but I do see some change
happening I have hope here in the United
States you know me two times up and even
there's a church
there's Church to movement now which is
great but it's it's all about how we are
going to raise the children that's to me
that's the bottom line we can do all the
prevention and intervention in the world
and around changing laws and so for they
go on but if people grow up with the
same attitudes that cause the problem
it's not going to change the same belief
systems and at least you learned and
they can be unlearned that's the thing
that's what some of the great prevention
programs are doing I think in Sweden for
example and Norway and Finland where
there are laws which is a trend against
using any form of physical discipline
the attitudes have changed so the laws
are not I mean they're needed it's a
culture change is what I'm saying yes I
agree absolutely
just as brown dresses and
whereas the board of education was
essential in terms of ending segregation
in the United States these are all tools
for change just as the ER a is which we
still don't have I know you wrote a book
about it
decades ago we still don't have equal
rights for women in the United States
CEDAW has not been ratified by the
United States you know so these
agreements and are important because
they speak to a society's values and I
love what John just posted every
revolution seems impossible at the
beginning to change that from revolution
to transformation right because we do
have this notion that somehow change is
achievable through violence and look at
what happened in the former Soviet Union
and China as they just replaced another
domination regime for an earlier one
because the underlying culture with its
massagin ism was changed we're coming
down to the I'm just gonna say that
ronita would you like to guide sort of
and actually there are a number of
questions relating to sort of how we
imagined we might close in terms of some
more resources and ideas for it for real
four steps steps so I'm going to hand it
back to you we needed a guide our our
final segment here Thanks okay thank you
and so yes we have had a number of
questions guiding unfortunately we have
had someone keeping notes and all of
those things will be available and you
have missed much in terms of the
questions that were posed what we hoped
for was some closing remarks in this
last 10 minutes and we will get to that
in terms of each panelist being able to
just answer just one thing that is a
next thing that we can do really impact
change in the areas that we've talked
about I think that that if all of us
behave differently
to Vietnam on a society we have to even
in our spheres of influence behave in
ways that are not violent from the
formal physical violence to other kind
of ways that we use our powers in our
position or authorities who usurp the
power of other folks and so yes in the
last few moments if you all each could
kind of just give a closing remark of a
resource that you think is particularly
impactful or a motto that you would like
to share that will be useful to our
audience
well I've shared a bit in the chat box I
really think that the bystander model is
something that has great promise and has
has been successful Jackson Katz the in
the MVP model model is I'm trying to
remember what it stands for my was part
mentors in violence prevention and the
idea is that we we teach men and women
to to be who who's to see and to speak
up and to model what we're talking about
to model partnership to talk about it to
challenge abuse and violence and you
know jokes the use of pornography which
is pretty much all violence against
women these days so to talk about it and
to not not to feel like you have to be
an expert but just to use what you do
know to take the knowledge that you have
and to not be silent because silence is
the voice of complicity we have to take
a stand
otherwise we're siding with the
oppressor I have to do something
differently and so I think there are
some great models out there that are
working well I've mentioned a few in the
chat box and if we can I don't know that
we can we have the the chat is that
something that you're with folks yes
has been sharing that in the in the chat
that we can will tidy a little bit but
make that part of our follow up to share
with people because there are so many
resources yes thank you participants
great resources yes
so I think the last thing I would say is
you know one of the things I've learned
from the Bible is to see the one of my
favorite scriptures is actually in the
Old Testament the Torah this seek
justice and you know love mercy and walk
humbly with your God that's pretty good
advice for all of us in my opinion so
wished for is for theologians from all
the major world religions to get
together and to really sort the
scriptures what has been misinterpreted
as well as what has been added in the
course of domination hiss yes yes good
boy and rationalize and make domination
and violence seem normal and so that
people who read these scriptures have a
guide if you and Ron want to give that
some thought and also ronita I think it
could make such a huge difference it's a
resource that doesn't yet exist I've
tried to talk about it in some of my
books and then especially in sacred
pleasure which is about sex myths and
politics of the body and looks at both
spirituality and sexuality through the
lens of the partnership termination say
a big part of that and in your book and
something that's been very meaningful to
me is as I've evolved over the years is
really embracing the fact that God is
not gendered and talking about God in a
way that's not gendered which you
address in that particular book and I
think that's really important that it
took me a long time to get to that to
place where I actually love the fact
that I I can that I believe in mother
father God not just a father God that
God it's not gender God we all represent
creation really the faith communities I
hope we'll start talking about domestic
violence which is a term I really don't
like because it's violence my own
mistakes as a social justice issue yes
they quote yes because immediately if
you label it called a women's issue all
that or conditioning to make it less
important kicks in human rights it's
human rights and social and social
justice training using different
language I think this is so important
and and if I may since this is a
question and I went run to and get a
chance to I'd like to point to to to
immediate resources that come to mind
and one and they're both available on
our website which is Center for
partnerships org one is the bullet that
progresses the integrated progressive
political agenda and hopefully and we'll
find it and put it up but I think we
have to understand that the people
pushing us back have an integrated
agenda for them these so-called women's
and children's issues have been on the
top in a horrible way but they've been
on the top it for most progressives
they're still just winners and
children's issues gotta change that the
second resource is in the caring and
connected parenting guide and I think
that that's really well it doesn't
especially address what we must address
which is agendas
typical gender socialization it does
address our caring and nonviolent
socialization which unfortunately as you
know is still justified as God's will by
some of the parenting guides floating
around and we've got to discredit those
and stand up to them
anyway run you you you I want you to
have a space and I have got very excited
about all of this the question was
resources yeah two videos that I think
are very powerful broken vows obviously
is great because for us it helps if
you're not used to working in this area
it helps people here as survivors tough
guys by Jackson cats masculinity and I
wrote a my sleeping with the enemy in
2010 that's endorsed it along with a
Patrick lemon who's co-founded men can
stop rape and I deal more I talk more
about this in the faith community what
we're dealing with so those are those
are three resources that might help but
broken bowels and tough guys I think
you'll watch quite often they're very
very good resources thank you and we
will be remiss if we did not thank our
sponsors we have the safe alliance we
have a copy Church of Christ half way to
safety International North Carolina
Council of Churches the pixel project
take trust Institute and this a my I'm
not sure that is the that stands for the
battering intervention services
coalition of Michigan excellent thank
you so much thank you very much to our
panelists thank you very much thank you
for your service thank you for your
heart for this work and for the heart
for just a safer existence of humanity
and so my
I will chime in and thank everyone on
the panel Sarah and and also I wish that
we had more chance to talk with some of
the attendees but as Sarah said maybe
what we need to do is to have a
follow-up session yeah thank you all and
bless you all thank you everyone great
information great sharing thank you so
much in terms of follow-up from this
session let me just say as we as we
close that you can expect an email to
come from will come from Annenberg it
will include the slides that you saw
today a link to the replay of this
recording that you can share with
colleagues and friends as well as
resource list and the chat which
contains many more resources than the
list that we sort of formerly have put
together for you so um watch for those
in the next 24 hours or so and we look
forward to seeing you back again for for
perhaps part 2 thanks so much all of
these technical difficulty thank you so
much this is great work thank you thank
you so much I have plenty of pulled-pork
here all right
