Chris, it's a pleasure
to get to talk to you
on one of our common subjects,
which is science fiction.
No, well thank you
for having me.
It's exciting
to talk about.
So, probably most people
wouldn't think of you
as a science fiction
filmmaker.
But you have major
forays into it.
Yeah.
Very, very unique ones.
"The Dark Knight"
is science fiction
from a sociological
standpoint.
"Interstellar"
obviously is.
"Inception"
obviously is.
They're using a machine
to go into a dream.
Yeah.
If there was no machine,
you could argue...
It'd be metaphysical.
Exactly, it would be
a metaphysical story.
Yeah, and it would've made
a lot less money.
[Chuckles]
Yeah, it would.
I mean, I'm being glib,
but the truth is,
that science fiction
allows you a mechanism...
Yes.
...that we can all understand
and grasp.
A lot of the inspiration
for "Inception"
was from
a period of my life,
you know,
when I was in university
and didn't have much money.
And breakfast was free.
But it ended at 8:00,
9:00 or whatever and we were,
of course,
staying up all night.
And so, I would got to bed
at, you know,
4:00 in the morning
or something.
Set my alarm.
Wake up to get into breakfast.
Go back --
Go back to sleep.
Right.
So, then you're in this
sleep state...
Yeah, yeah.
...where it becomes possible
to be very aware
of the fact
that you're dreaming.
And I would experiment
with trying to control a dream.
Try to make something --
Lucid dreaming.
Lucid dreaming.
Yeah, yeah.
And it was -- it was frustrating
but it's fascinating.
And the occasional moment
where you get something to work
and you're able to actually
channel your dream --
lucid dreaming.
Yeah, yeah.
It's pretty fascinating.
Okay,
that's a super power.
That's an amazing thing.
[Laughs]
And that was really very much
the genesis of the film.
It's incredible.
You made something that
was completely unique,
and I would argue,
probably unique in film history,
which was this kind of
matryoshka stacking doll reality
that was challenging
to follow,
but thrilling to know
that you had got it right.
But maybe it makes sense
to start with "Interstellar."
It's pretty four square
in the genre.
Yeah.
Future, hardware-oriented
and so on.
What drew you
to that subject?
I was sort of excited to try
the Newtonian physics
'cause so much of "Interstellar"
is about quantum physics,
Einstein and beyond.
But to get back to Newton,
the things that, as a moviegoer,
you can really grasp
and feel, that kind of thing.
When you're showing
gravitational lensing
and the intense distortion
around a black hole...
Yeah.
...you approached it
very rigorously...
Yes.
...by going to some of
the top experts.
It was a really fascinating
part of the process
because Kip Thorne,
one of the great
minds in physics,
said to me very early on,
"When you get to that,
I want to talk to your visual
effects guys and artists."
And I, you know, as a filmmaker,
he was a little, you know, like,
well, we're gonna make it
the way we want it to look.
That's a bit cheeky.
It's a little bit cheeky.
Yeah.
You would appreciate that.
But I thought, "He's got
a real passion for that.
There must be a reason
for that."
And of course,
what I then realized is,
he's sitting on
all of this information,
all these equations,
that he knows that put into the
right computer, essentially...
Yeah.
...he can spit out a picture
of what science really tells you
this thing would look like.
And he's probably
always wanted to see it.
He's always
wanted to see it.
And of course,
we have those computers.
They have all kinds
of other computers.
Sure.
They've got
all the equations.
They got
all the mathematics.
Yeah.
But they don't have
the indulgence that we have...
Yeah, yeah.
They don't have the --
...of months and months
of render times
to make those.
And in the end,
that construction of
the black hole was so successful
that Kip actually presented
a scientific paper on it.
So, sort of --
it literally fed back.
You know, he gave us
the equations.
We had produced
the black hole.
And then he was able to
re-present that
to his colleagues
and say, "Okay,
here's the visualization."
Isn't that the great
virtuous circle
of science fiction...
Yes.
...though, which is that
we imagine these things
and then fairly competent minds
write science fiction
and propose ideas
and then inspire scientists...
Yeah.
...who then go and find out
what things really are.
Yeah.
Often inspired
by science fiction.
I think
very often inspired.
Yeah, yeah.
I mean, I think
you go back to 2001.
I mean, they have iPads.
Yeah, right.
I mean,
they look like iPads.
Yeah.
And I think, "Okay,
I mean that, you know,
filmmakers are not pouring
the stuff out into a vacuum."
Yeah.
And if you look at, I mean,
what Steven did
with "Minority Report,"
with that interface.
Mm-hmm, with the
gesture-based interface...
Exactly.
...which we now have,
of course.
Hugely influential.
I mean, luckily, no one's
figured out killer robots yet.
Yeah, right. Right. No, well,
they have predator drones.
Ah, yes, even as I say that,
actually.
I was thinking
of Arnold himself.
But no, actually, thinking about
it, it's chilling, actually.
Oh, yeah,
they can do it now.
And close those drones are.
So, thanks for that.
[Laughs]
Just trying to do my part.
