what, frankly, I think is the
most pressing issue of our
time, which is how to create
jobs and inclusion and a work
force that is ready to
grapple with the fourth
industrial revolution.
How are we going to do that?
What is the role of business,
what is the role of the
public sector?
What is the role of civic
society?
I am just going to give a few
facts to set the stage and
then I will introduce the
panelists and have a chat and
then draw you in.
We have some technology which
if you want to use Slido, I
think some of you already
have this on your phones, you
can email or text in your
questions, they're going to
appear right here on the
screens so we can ask them in
real time and s will be able
to take questions from the
audience as you like.
I may ask you some polls
during the conversation.
Maybe we can just say the
starting point is the fourth
industrial revolution is very
anxiety provoking for a lot
of people.
It can be scary but if you
look historically technology
has always been a net new
jobs creator.
However, there are periods of
disruption.
Dishorically.
We could name all of them
hundreds of years back
there's always pefrnds of
disruption.
Right now we are going
through changes that are
broader, deeper and faster
than ever before in history
which is why it's so
important to address these
challenges.
According to the forum's fut
Future of -   -- Future of
Jobs report, machine,
algorithm s in the work
force, all new technologies
could potentially lead to a
net positive growth of 58
million jobs but only if the
right labour policies about
the right community between
all three of these sectors is
in place.
I'm going to give you one
more statistic which I find
very interesting.
Again, from the WEF report -
65% of children that are
entering primary school are
going to work in jobs that
don't even exist.
So that is - that's
incredibly exciting, it's
also incredibly challenging.
I have a daughter who is
about to go to college and
I'm trying desperately to
figure out what the future
is.
So this is personally
relevant to me.
Let me introduce our
panelists.
Starting here from the far
right we have Sharan Burrow,
who is the general secretary
of the international trade
union confederation and
you're based in Belgium.
>> Good morning.
>> So her left we have Hans
Vestberg, the CEO of Verizon
Communications in the USA.
To my left we have Muriel
Penicaud, who is the labour
Minister of France, and on
the far left here we have
Alain Dehaze, the CEO of the
Adecco Group of Switzerland
which is a work force
solutions - I want to make
sure I get the description
right there.
So let me start - let me
start actually sharing with
you, because you're on the
front lines of this.
You are representing one of
the largest labour
organisations in the world.
How would you frame these
challenges for the workers of
the planet ?
>> Well, first of all, let me
say that we're not
particularly frightened about
the technology.
We actually think there are
ethical issues but they're
societal issues Abs how you
deploy technology but we
don't believe in a
deterministic future either.
So it is a matter of the use
of the technology and then
how you integrate it.
But for trade unions we've
been integrating technology
for decades.
You're right that what's
different now is the speed
and the dramatic shifts in
the way production is managed
or the way we're dealing
with, you know, services of
any kind.
We do take a little bit of
issue of the 68% of jobs.
I mean, I've heard these
statistics for three decades.
Yes, the skills will be very
different.
So if that is the way you
categorise it, fine, but you
will still have agriculture
and construction and
manufacturing and services in
a whole variety of ways.
There will be some new
industries.
It's really the question of
the skills.
So, if you walk back from
this a little and you say, so
our challenge is really the
transition, and in fact,
Rana, you put your finger on
it, there are periods of
disruption.
Now, we've not dealt with
those as efficiently as we
might have in previous
transitions.
But it's always - in
economies that have dealt
well with this, in businesses
that have dealt well with it,
skilling,
upskilling, reskilling
always been part of the
equation.
And we need to add a few more
things now because there will
be displaced workers.
I mean, the jobs - we can
argue about whether there
will be more jobs or less
jobs.
We're not prepared to give up
on full employment so we hope
those statistics are right,
and more.
But it will be, in fact, the
case that, while there will
be melded or blended jobs
with technology, there wills
will be displacement.
And we have to get the
social contract right.
The ILOS report
released yesterday, already
we have
inequality at historic
levels so we
need to have a renewed
social contract
for that basis.
But, yesterday, the report
actually gives you a very
good frame on this.
Reinvigorated social contract
with a floor of a labour
guarantee.
So, as we're seeing
displaced workers by
platform work,
where you are terribly
precarious, you can't
actually plan your working
life
or your income, then we can
fix that.
And so there are solutions.
Weave just got to have the
mind set and the
collaborative will to make it
happen.
>> That's a great framing and
I'm thinking about three
points as you're speaking -
one the, 2 challenges differ
with automation, country to
country, big time.
There are questions about the
meaning of job and even if
jobs aren't completely
displaced everyone's work is
going to change.
So this relates to all of us.
This is not just about
vulnerable people in certain
populations.
Hans, you're on the front
lines of this.
>> Yeah.
>> I'm sure like every CEO I
talk to skill issues, the
skills gap, figuring out the
arbitrage between jobs that
are able and skills that are
available is a big deal.
Talk to us about that and
give us some colour about how
this is playing out within
your own firm?
>> First of all, my mystery
is I've been on the
borderline between the
technology evolution and how
that is impacting positively
on our society for many
years.
Of course first of all we
need to understand this
fourth industrial revolution
and technology is coming
should be the technologies
that actually can make this
planet sustainable because
many of the previous
industrial revolutions have
used a lot more natural
resources and if we want to
have equality and everyone
have the same possibilities
we need technologies that are
coming out on a global plat
forms and things like that.
There is no way we cannot
sort of try to stop it or
something but it poses a
couple of challenge,
especially for large
corporations and that is not
only for the company that I
represent.
We have 155,000 employees.
I think we're in a large
corporation.
You need new type of skills.
Then of course we cannot rely
on the school system because
that is going to take too
long.
So of course we need a new
social contract because we
probably every three to five
years need new type of skills
in the company .
And you cannot fire and hire
in and out in that size of
company.
It's so much disruption.
So we need to get with the
public sector of course,
seeing that we have a
long-time learning from the
public sector but as a
company, I mean, the drive
for education and
self-learning in a company is
enormous.
I can compare the last 20
years in corporations, I mean
right now you have so many
trainings you can take
internally u but it's also up
to the individual in the
company.
If I want to reskill, if I
want to train, these are the
sort of classes you can take.
If you want that job, so of
course as a corporation you
work it out with that.
The second thing which is
also challenged with all of
this because when you do
global on the platform you
have a total new job
environment.
People that can sit in one
country, innovate a product
and 3D print nit another
contract, they're self-
employed.
Large corporations
historically stand for all
the benefits of having a
social contribution and owl
of that.
Suddenly we have that labour
market, millenniums that want
to come in and then you think
about large corporation and I
think 10 or 15 out will it be
huge companies with hundreds
of thousands of Employees?
The millenials want to work
two years here on the part
time and do what they want to
do.
And the whole system has been
built up around large
corporations.
I think a lot about that.
Ultimately I if you're
purpose driven and people
really like to be there, they
think they're going to be
there two years, they're
going to be there 100 years
or 25 years.
It's a possibility but those
sort of things with skills
and the new work force that
we're getting in here are big
challenges for within a large
corporation
>> That's so fascinating.
The point you're making about
3D printing, large and small
business, global, local, I've
heard this talked about in
the context of the trade
debate.
Maybe trade flows will be
completely different based on
new technologies but labour
markets will be -
>> Labour market you're going
to sit in one country and
produce in another country.
Borders being the way you
deal with things.
Labour market, products, and
of course taxes we're
discussing constantly right
now between countries but
there's so many other things
that this economy will give
you and it has to be there,
if not we're going to have
urbanisation, the few places
on earth.
We cannot have that if we
want to have a resourceful
planet and taking care of it
>> There's so much there.
We will come back to a couple
of those points.
It's brilliant.
But you're raising an
important question which is
what is the new social
compact?
Minister, I will turn to you
and ask you how you see that
question and what you see the
role of the state being in
working to buffer all these
changes for citizens.
>> First, we share with you,
with you all the fact that
the size and the speed of
change is a unknown.
So we face together an
unknown.
So we have to organise in a
different way to face the
unknown.
We estimate that 10 to 15% of
the job will be suppressed in
the coming 10 years.
10 to 20, 25 will be created
but maybe the most dramatic
change is half a job will
dramatically change in the
coming 10 years.
So the question of reskilling
and upskilling become not
only human question or
something nice, something
good but something vital.
Site vital for individual,
vital for company.
I think for company today the
access to capital is much
more easier than access to
skills.
Of course.
There was the war of talents
and it was only the top.
Now it's all over not all
level and the company or the
nation that will tomorrow
will grow and will continue
to be able to share will be
the one who have invested the
best way in skills.
It's why we decided to launch
a product that I will call
Upskill the Nation in France
and last sept we created new
rights an new landscape for
the whole skilling of -
upskilling and the life-long
learning.
With two main things.
First is to create a system
that helps company to keep
their employees but to
reskill massively and
probably the most innovative
is to right a right for --
create a right of any of the
workers in France, they will
benefit of a credit for
training every year, 500
Euros every year in an
account and it will freely on
top of what do companies
prepare, to anticipate, they
will have the freedom to
choose their own training and
in November there will be an
app and everyone will be able
to know it's right but also
to choose among the whole
offer of all 35 training so
thousands and thousands of
training in France, and to
apply and decide by itself.
And why it's important
because we see it in France,
as you know, most - many of
our citizens in all of
countries think that they are
victims of globalisation and
technology, it's a threat for
them.
But when you are not in the
driving seat, change is
always a threat.
The only way you can be
active, you need to be
proactive, you need to be in
the driving seat to have part
of choice, to have - to be
able to choose your future.
It's never 100%.
You neat to beem pow ired,
enabled to choose part of
your professional life better
than yesterday.
And this is why there's a
sense of this law, this
individual training app and
right with money and the way
everyone will be able to make
their own choice.
At the same time, we have
decided to invest 15 billion
Euro in five years to train
massively 1
million young people and 1
million unemployed people
because still, even
if it decree  crease, we
still have very high level of
unemployment in
France, to massively train,
to current
job where we don't have the
competencies, one out of two
company
have difficulty, has
difficulty to
recruit a high level of
employment but
also of course every new
jobs or
transformed job lead to
digital revolution or climate
change
revolution, we create a lot
of opportunities too.
So we do both at the same
time, massive investment.
Of course this is based -
there is a new right that's
based on the discussion with
unions and employers and
based on agreements that have
taken together, who have
pushed that a little further.
That is the responsibility of
the Parliament and the
government but it's really
something where of course we
need on board all the
industry, all the companies,
and unions of course.
>> So this is fascinating I'm
hearing three really
important things.
You have the ecosystem going
- public, private, union, all
that is important.
You're echoing something I've
heard a lot of people say to
me this week it's very
different depending on
whether you're the one
articulating or receiving
change.
Very different dynamic and
it's important for people to
feel empowered.
Thirdly, this is something I
hear in the US, this idea of
giving a tax credit for
investment in human capital
rather than just capital
capital.
There's a glut of money but a
shortage of human capital.
To how do you shep businesses
to insent vie vies that --
incent size
that -- incentivise
investment.
As
someone who runs companies
that
specialises in labour and
interim
needs, you're kind of in the
middle of this.
You must be seeing a lot of
the pressure points between
these three different areas.
So I'm wondering if you can
kind of articulate what you
see are some of the pressing
challenges and also if there
are interesting solutions
you're seeing that you would
call out that are scaleable
in any particular countries?
>> Yes.
First of all, I share the
optimism of Sharan because
technology is opening a lot
of new opportunities.
And as you like figures I
will also quote some figures.
40% of the
American population was in
1901
filling the total American
population.
Today it's 2%.
>> We can do this  >>
Employment has never been so
low in the US.
So it means that -
>> It's a good job  >> We
will come to that.
It means that, yeah, thanks
to creativity, new
industries, new job will be
created.
The big challenge for me,
from what we see at 100,000
customers we have in 60
countries is
the speed of the transition
because
technology is making its
inroad
extremely fast and a
question to
challenge how does society,
companies
and employees adapt to this
acceleration of technology
inroad?
So the key challenge is about
the speed
and the way we transition
from one
system to the new - to the
future of
work.
And there I would say that's
perhaps my second message -
it's time
to act.
Because it you're here at
Davos and for sure the last
three years everybody has
spoken about the
future of work, the need to
reskill,
upskill and so on.
And we are saying,
as the Adecco o Group, it is
time to act.
And what does it mean, time
to
act?
It means that, yes, we need
to reinvigorate the social
contract but
this social contract must be
a three
part unite solution, it must
be a multiscaik holder
solution.
You have heard Minister
Penicaud about the
great initiative the French
government
has taken regarding
reskilling.
This
is very - this is very good
because we see also that it
is the responsibility of
government in the world to
put in place the right
framework to allow
this transition to upskill
this - upskill and reskill
people.
Second, you have the
employers and especially
entrepreneurs.
If you want company, your
product to be sustainable
towards the future, you need
to innovate, you
need to adapt.
But especially you need the
right talent s and, if you
don't develop the right
talents for the future, your
company won't be
sustainable.
So this is also I would say a
call to the employers - do
you have a predictive work
force plan?
Do you have predictive plan
regarding the talent you will
need in one year, two
years, three years, five
years in order to remain
competitive and
sustainable?
And, third, it is also
time to act for the
individual and
staffnd $and everybody as an
individual is responsible to
remain
employable.
We made some statistic -
57% of employees finds that
they are
also individually
responsible to
become employable for the
future.
So this is a call we are
doing.
It is time to act.
It must be a multi
stakeholders responsibility.
And then we come with some
innovation.
We had also a new paper and
we said, yes, as upskilling,
reskilling is about
investment in human capital,
first of all we say we should
consider
reskilling and upskilling as
an investment and treat it
differently.
>> Yeah.
>> Instead of taking a risk
in upskilling and reskilling
as a cost, let's take it as a
capital amortisation and
amortise your cost of
reskilling according to the
life of your skills and we
know that every
individual today is losing
30% of its
competitors and skills after
a period
of four years.
So it is important to
reskill yourselves.
>> Sorry, go ahead and make
your last point and I want to
jump in.
>> And what we say I'm glad
it was the initiative of the
French government it should
be individualised this
reskilling solutions because,
according to the new
sociological frame woecialg,
the
gig -- framework, the gig
employee,
the free lance, one
generation is going from one
company to the others, from
one project to the others.
So it is important that, yes,
they have the flexibility
they are looking for but at
the same time there is a
security put in place.
So that's why we are
suggesting to individualise
that kind of initiative
>> That is a really
fascinating point.
You're making me think about
two things.
Again, the idea that labour
should be an asset and not
just a cost on the balance
sheet both at a national
level and a corporate level
are very important.
Also, this idea of how does
the millenial generation want
to work?
What are the different ways
in which jobs - what are jobs
going to look like?
I wanted to check one quick
anecdote.
I had a fascinating
conversation with a head of a
German pharmaceutical company
and she said that they have
two tracts now in terms of
employment that they offer
when people come into the
company they offer a
traditional track, you have
benefits and slow and steady
path, more security, and they
offer a entrepreneurial track
and you have a piece of
whatever innovation that is
more of kind of a venture
capital.
70% of the millenials are
choosing that model which is
fascinating.
But this also begs the
question of what is a
good job.
To your point there's plenty
of job creation in some
places in the US a lot of
politicians would both about
job creation.
Half of the largest growing
are $15 an hour or
less.
What does a good job look
like?
>> You make sure you have
them first of all by ensure
ing everyone has a minimum
living wage.
If you can't live on a wage,
you have a precarious life
that leads to a precarious
economy
>> That needs to be supported
by the state, potentially
>> True.
But often not at all.
Look at the 800,000 workers
in America, I think this is
amazing that their middle
income earners but what you
see is the precariousness
where within 30 days they're
losing their home, can't pay
their mortgages, having cars
repossessed.
These are not poor,
woers.
- ers.
I we can make any job a
good job.
And we can recognise care
work and pay it a good wage
it's not about affordable.
The world is three
times richer than it was
years ago.
So a minimum living wage,
universal social protection,
so you have income
when you have times when
you've been displaced or
when, you know, you're
raising
a family or whatever it
might be.
And that can be for
self-employed workers.
We organise self-employed
entrepreneurs, we organise
informal
women in cooperatives, we
organise
farmwork ers who have no
attachment to
any corporation but rely on
corporations for supply
chains, as well as the big
companies.
With Eno the solutions.
You can put a labour
guarantee under all workers.
It's a much more significant
challenge for us
to say do we have the
political will
to do that?
I think, Alain, you're
right, we always like to be
challenged
as individuals but if you're
in a
displaced environment or
great to hear
your commitment to upskill
ing and retraining your own
work force because we've gone
away from doing that and
that is a loss of capital
for companies but I don't buy
the mill inial we want to be
here, there and everywhere.
Talk to them.
Yes, they want some
excitement in the first years
of their life but most of my
staff are now in that
category.
They're suddenly starting to
get married and they want
children so they want child
care and secure jobs.
They are not that different
from the rest of us but they
have a more flexible approach
to technology because they
grew up with it and that's a
good thing.
So I think the mix is there.
And I'm really pleased to
hear Minister Penicaud say
that it's a credit to train
on a certified course because
I've seen a lot of skills
portfolios funded, not enough
but a lot of them, but we've
seen them terrible
fly-by-night companies who
are not providing the skills
that are valuable to
individuals or to business
because they don't have
certification,
you can't have a trajectory
of a qualifications base and
so on.
So we have to get the back
ends of the systems right
>>  >> That's
interesting.
>> But at its, you know, at
the most challenging is to
say are we prepared to give
everybody
a good, secure working life?
Whatever
they're working at.
And we can do it.
We have the money.
Universal social protection,
a minimum living wage, and
the right to bargain
collectively.
In fact today we're talking
about two really exciting
pieces of work with the
manufacturing team here
because there's a big shift
going on in industry with
technology as well and
with sustainability
challenges.
And this sector -
manufacturing sector
industry employs a quarter
of the world's work force and
has a third of the global
emissions.
So as a passionate 1.5
supporter, because there are
no jobs on a dead planet,
then we actually need to
figure this
out.
So in Sweden, for example, it
is a joint commitment.
The unions bargained for 3%
of the income to go
into a fund.
The employers have
contributed and now they've
realised
that only pays for about 4
to 6 months of income and
training.
So they're
taking now, with government
support, actually the
unemployment component of
what it would be like to be
out of work for a year,
putting that in the fund and
they can now fund income and
training for up to a year.
They have done the same
thing, slightly different,
between employers and workers
in Denmark.
And we can do it anywhere if
we are actually creative
about this and everybody's
on the job
together.
And people do want security
>> I love the real world
example of this working
because it's really
important.
Often we talk about 35,000
things and to be able to say
this country has done it and
it's replicable that's hugely
important.
You mentioned climate.
In the US, the idea of a
green new deal is becoming a
political issue.
I know in many countries
that's been the same for a
while.
I'm curious how you all,
maybe Hans you have thoughts
on, this how you view this
integration, win-win
potentially
>> I think that this is -
first of all, the role I've
been sort of CEO for a long
time, different companies,
the change of the role that
you have and the
responsibility you have I
think is - maybe I wasn't
mature enough before but I
think that you manage the
shareholders, you
manage your employees, but
this social
responsibility if you lead a
large corporation has
dramatically changed.
If you think about the
climate thing and I think
that every company needs to
think like this, first of all
you need to go to yourself,
what is you as a company
doing?
I can look at the company,
OK, we try to travel less, we
do everything we can to
reduce our CO2
foot print.
The next step is to have 10X
more impact where the
equipment, we have equipment
all over the world.
We procure things that has
less power consumption all
the time .
That's 10X and then have 10X
on top of that and
that's when I have solution
that IT
solutions where we my
customers can
actually have a much less
CO2 emission.
>> Does this create jobs?
>> Absolutely.
Ultimately it's create both
jobs and also a purpose, and
a mission for a company
contributing to
- we both have the same
goals and if you come into a
company today you want to
work for a company that is
trying to do good.
And you always go back to
jour strategy.
Our strategy we want to be
best on technology worldwide.
Any company can be part of it
and that creates job, it
creates motivation and
purpose for the people in the
company.
Yes, we get all these service
about millenniums and all of
that.
I am not equally like you,
the jury is still out how
they would like to have their
work life in the future.
And I think also they're
going to get families, they
are going to think
differently as well over
time.
We need to cater for both of
it but clearly we see right
now initially they want to
work differently.
But on this climate, I think
you both can create a lot of
solutions which are creating
jobs.
But start with yourself,
before you tell everybody
else we need to do this and
that.
You need to go into your own
company, show your employees
that you can take care of
things
>> Making a very important
point about solving this
problem, not just the climate
problem but the jobs problem,
it's integral both to
customers but loss to the
labour pool because as you
say millenials don't want to
work for companies that don't
have a purpose.
Minister, I want to come to
you on the idea of climate
and innovation and job
creation.
This is as obvious as an
international challenge.
This is not an easy moment to
have multilateral agreements.
The Trade Minister of Canada
was on stage the other day
and made a very interesting
point about how, yes, we are
a global community, you have
the big problems are global
problemu you need policies
that work within your
countries too because you
can't actually graft small
foreign policy unless you
have strong domestic support.
France is in a very
interesting moment with this
at the moment.
How - how is the tension
between global and local
playing out in your country
in terms of labour markets
and job creation?
>> First, I would say that
and it's an echo of what
Sharan said, we are at a very
important moment.
I think - the future is not
written.
But the long term is urgent,
very urgent, otherwise it
will not be long term.
On both sides the climate
change with all the
opportunities and challenge
s it represents, but also on
the
social part.
I'm convinced that we -
gloeks without regulation -
- globalisation without
regulation will
go to the end.
So it's not time to
make a lot of nuance, it's
time for
big action.
And for instance in the
report we will support the
idea of universal social
protection minimum.
When I was in AVP, I did the
first global agreement on
this in our
company.
Now there's 300 company that
has global initiative s that
were launched by the Prime
Minister of
Sweden.
On a voluntary basis doing
global agreement on social -
so it can
be training, it can be
social pro protections.
We don't have this content in
Europe first, I will go
back to your question in
Europe, and
at the global level people
react
negatively to gloeks to fear
and this
-- globalisation and this
rise of nationalists
in many, many countries is
linked to
this threat and if we don't
have more
social content in Europe and
the world, the time will be
very
difficult.
It's the same question of
climate change.
Of how you combine, it is not
easy.
We are exactly facing that in
France at the moment where
determined on the social part
and determine on
the ecological part.
But change for climate change
enough quickly means what?
Means change a lot of
practices and
jobs in agriculture,
construction,
industry, transport, waste
management, a lot of
opportunity, a lot of new
jobs, how you make it
possible for
people to join, to catch-up
enough
quickly for this to be
represent an
opportunity.
The social movement we
had the industry in the last
two months started by this
question
because we wanted to go
quickly to
change our practices on CO2
emission
through cars but people say
we don't
need to go to work and to
live.
How you joined this long term
and the short term and that's
the key for me of the
agreement we need.
For that we need a stronger
and better Europe because
France alone will not be able
to do it.
We will do our part and we
need to do more at the global
level to - what we said for
years an years it was just
nice words.
How you combine the economic
growth, the climate change
and the social progress.
And if you don't combine the
three, the world will be
chaotic.
If we combine and it's a
representative of all of us,
we can make a change.
And I think it's not written.
The good news it's not
written
>> But the good news is we
show the statistics for every
dollar you invest in climate
solutions you are going to
create jobs.
>> Absolutely  >> Now, there
are going to be jobs that are
disrupted as well and we can,
again, within the social
contract, above that labour
guarantee, we can actually
put the just transitions
principles, so they're worked
out with the B team, we're
trying the ILOS trust
transition principles
translated into business
speak about how you engage
the work force in the change
from the beginning.
Because the trade union
movement is convinced whether
it's climate, technology or
both, most often now it will
be both, then if you engage
your work force, if you have
secure pensions for those who
are going to retire, perhaps
earlier than they might want,
if you have the skills
support we're talking about
redeployment support and
income through the
transition, it works.
And it actually works.
People then feel secure
enough to say, OK, well, what
is the change we're going to
have to make because the fear
is what we have to get over
and the age of anger that
we're seeing not just in
France, Minister, I was on
the streets of India 2.5
weeks ago, 200 million people
on strike, including farmers
and everybody and the anger
is palpable.
I've never felt it before.
So these - we can solve this
but you have to get high
ambition through engagement
and just transition and we
have to give people good jobs
and an income on which they
can live.
>> Again, like in your
previous discussion I think
it's, again, time to act.
And in this perspective,
there is a famous word - you
get what you
measure.
And also in this commission
and this report from the
global commission, there is a
recommendation
which is to deploy the
so-called
integrated reporting.
You know
companies are mainly
reporting their
financials.
But, if we are really want
to move forward, it's really
not only
to anchor it but to strongly
anchor
the companies to put in
place the
reporting for the companies
on the
financials but also on the
social key factors and
metrics and the
environmental key metrics.
This will force cabinets to
really move, think
about it but it will also
make the
financial community,
especially the
investment community, to
look at this metrics and
invest in companies which
are really working for the
great
future
>> It feels like we're at a
tipping point.
Obviously last year big news
with Black Rock saying we
need to look at more than
share price.
This is great point - what is
the metric.
We need a new metric.
CEOs are selling me, we love
that it's not just about
share price, that's good.
But what is the metric?
>> I know.
I think this is absolutely
right.
I've been in companies that
have sustainability report
since 25 years back.
So I think that we've been
reporting all this and you
start to get investors asking
you.
You have a financial metrics
where Standard & Poors and
everybody this is exactly how
I rate you and in the social
environment there are so many
environment and so many
things that - and I think as
we would say, we would mark
it as important for the
society and do it and the
global alliance, the global
bench mark alliances which is
foundation in the Netherlands
is starting to try to do
that, I'm also on the board
of the UN foundation is
supporting that.
Ultimately we all are trying
to do that sustainablity
reporting but if we can get
some bench mark of how it
hangs together between us
it's even better.
I think that CEOs like me and
many others we would even
welcome that.
Right now, you know, you meet
investors here and they ask
you about one thing and
they're mesh ugh this -
measuring this and it becomes
3,000KPIs and you need to
decide do these KPIs matter
for me?
>> Go ahead.
>> We are CEO of listed
companies so we meet every
year, 120, 115 investors in
individual meetings.
How many times
did we get the questions
about social
and environmental metrics?
>> I would say I get it but
how many times
did I bring it up myself?
Many.
>> That's a good inspiration
al for all of us.
>> It's part of my
responsibility as a leader to
bring it up, what we're doing
and why we're doing it and
white's - why it's part of my
strategy.
People believe it's
philanthropy, it's not.
>> No, it's not.
>> And that's why I need to
bring it up.
>> Yep.
Very good
>> And I have worked with
Your Honour investors, and a
little bit more American and
they're a little bit
different as well.
>> I love the energy with
this
>> We do need to shift
investors.
We have 37 trillion dollars
of workers' capital invested
in global funds and we are
frankly sick of it being
passively invested.
It's not doing good for the
workers because the companies
are not paying live wage,
they don't respect rights or
bargain collectively but it's
not doing the job for the
climate either.
One of our latest initiatives
because we're so passionate
about getting the trust from
transition, we partnered with
the PRI and the London School
of Economics and Harvard and
we have put out an investor
brief on just transition.
And I'm actually kind of
surprised but delighted that
I don't know exactly the
latest figure but
it's almost up to 10 billion
- sorry, so trillion has
already been signed on to
actually look through the
lens of saying is it about
just transition?
And are we doing good for the
planet and for workers?
So, you know, we have to
shift the investment - and
frankly if all the CEOs here
told Standard & Poors that
they were just going to tear
up their ratings if they
didn't include a social
action -
>> Action
point!
>> Action point.
>> They're -  >> They're
working on it
>> They don't own you.
The world -
>> Why don't we use the World
Economic Forum to accelerate
that because we all
agree.
If you don't measure
environment and social, we
will not be
part of this.
As you said, there are
plenty of measurement but
not the big
one that is a reference and
at the
same time even if it's
increasing very
few investor take it at the
same
level.
I would say seriously.
So how
we cannot - have a work shop
to say we
need to put on that because
we say the
number of CEOs and even
investors say
it's important.
Let's also call to
action because if we don't -
if we are
not consistent from an
investment stand point, from
a measures stand
point we will have the same
discussion in three years
>> Another action
point, we're being filmed.
Klaus I
hope you're listening.
Will's get a - let's get a
group of see yoe, government
officials to sign on to new
metrics at the WEF next year.
That's one challenge for us.
>> Very good
>> We're there.
>> OK!
Alright.
I love this.
>> Are we done now  >> No,
you've got 15 mnths more
minutes.
One more question before I
open it up to the audience.
I want to bring it back to
the individuals and to
education because this is a
big debate globally.
You know, what is the path?
How should education be
reformed in order to train
the new work force?
There's a lot of negativity
around the skills gap in
education.
I feel optimistic because in
the US anyway, even though
the system is very flawed in
a lot of ways I see a lot of
paths opening up.
I see a number of businesses,
for example, working to
create programs where kids
will come out of high school
with a 2-year college degree
as well as in a state system
where that cuts later on, I
see community colleges, the
Germanic model becoming more
important.
I see talk about making
education cheaper and
questions about whether a
four-year degree is for
everyone.
So I'm curious, if you all
want to jump in on that, and
say a what you think needs to
happen in the educational
system to ensure good jobs
and a good labour force.
>> First, it's a basic remark
but it's still - still very
important
to say it.
We need to invest massively
to the primary education.
I mean, children were very
poor, when
they enter the school, the
primary
school, they have 10 times
less words.
How they can succeed?
So what we are
doing now in France we're
investing massively - first
e, we are going to
do the early education 3 to
6 compulsory, mandatory for
everyone
because we have 90% that go,
10% don't
go and they're mostly from
poor family.
So first we want to have all
the kids to have the same
opportunity.
And then at the level of 6 -
at the age of 6 where they
learn - they learn to read
and write, which is critical,
we are doing a massive
investment to have much more
teacher, much more
different approach, for sure
that all
kids really master reading,
writing,
technology, math, and
respect and
social respect
>> Social respect: I
that is there in in there
with STEM.
>> And the skills to live
together.
It seems trivial but even in
developed
country, we need 100% of our
kids to
be sure they have the tools
and after we do massive
thing, after 16 years
and that's more my part with
my
colleague before but it's
joined
because we need to invest in
the kids
especially, for instance for
the
reading.
The kids who don't have book
at home, they don't produce
the same so we have to
compensate that.
Then more involved in a
culture
environment.
And I think it's - this early
investment based on the fact
that, after 16, we will have
a massive investment to
retrain all the time.
I
think it's a key.
It's very simple but
it's a challenge.
>> It's so interesting you
have to start so early.
>> I use the same model for
everything I try to.
Do first of all, you do it
with your own staff, you try
to give them all the
potential to reskill and
train: Then of course as we
are a technology company we
also understand that we are
doing massive connectitivity
around the country.
And then of course we're very
interested to get STEM out in
the schools.
So we have actually decided
we are doing 400 million US
dollars investment in 350
schools that don't have the
connectivity and the iPads
and we're having a STEM
program.
There you need even better
collaboration between the
public and private because
you know you will get the
private company come in to do
it.
But if I do it internally and
I can go out and say I can do
it externally, it's actually
working.
So we're in the middle of the
deployment of the deploy 400
million US dollars in 350
schools in the US that
doesn't have conyectivity,
even though it can be close
in great areas, they don't
have it.
So I think it has to be
partnership, I of course need
the education system much
quicker learning process, et
cetera, but it's also
responsibility for public
companies.
>> OK.
I've got - do you want to
make a final point?
>> No, I.
>> We don't know what the job
s will be in five to 10 years
from now.
But what we know it is very
important
to learn new soft skills.
I think it is important
from the
basic education to learn
this new
capacity.
Also, how to learn to learn
because.
>>  >> It's a profound point,
actually, there's a lot of
research to
show that teams - and to why
sometimes you have a
superstar economy that is
another issue we could have
another
panel on incentive s but
Saadia, maybe
we can talk to you.
We have a couple of questions
on the iPads, let me ask
these to the group.
First, frommoana,
it seems the issue is not
jobs but
wages and inequality.
Does AI make
people more substitutable?
Sharan?
>> I mean, that's true.
Tlt is no doubt that if we
don't - inequality has been
seen as a global risk and you
will hear people say it's
not globalisation.
We are all committed to a
trade, a global trade
environment but not on the
current rules because the
current model of supply
chains are exploitative,
they're dehuman nice
thing and -- demuseumising
and good
CEOs who work in their
normal work
relationships in probably a
positive way have no idea on
what's going on in their
supply chains.
>> They should  >> But that's
the obscurity.
Due diligence is mandated.
It's the UN business and
human rights principles,
it's voluntary but it's
mandated in
front.
We want due diligence
mandated everywhere
>> And that's something that
technology can help with.
I am hearing a lot of
interest from supply chain
folks.
>> You're right.
Even though we have 150,000
employees when I start
looking into how many are
impacting every day in the
supply chain they need to
live up to the same standard.
Ultimately it's our
responsibility and our brand
that is involved, if I have a
partner that is not living up
to the standard that we have,
and we have cases like that.
It happens.
But you need to audit that,
you need to put it into
contracts with your suppliers
saying this is how we behave,
and if you don't do it I can
tell you it will not work,
especially if we're going to
get to an environment where
you're a small company and
you use partners who are
hiding everything.
>> You know, the AI question,
technology unchecked is
actually fuelling monopolies.
>> Yes  >> You know more
about this, Rana, than
anybody.
>> On my hobby horse  >> But
Indeed if you take a company
like Amazon, we gave up on
competition policy, and yet
Amazon's direct employees in
the US are paid, you know,
richest man in the world,
company now is expanding in
every sector and it will be
within four or five years
with the dominant global
retailer, buying up all sorts
of companies that are risking
development in other
environments.
But a third of the work force
in the US, in the US is
eligible for food stamps.
So imagine what the
exploitation is like through
the supply chain.
That's got to end.
That is about the rule of law
and new social contract, a
labour guarantee as a floor
and a due diligence.
It's a package that can work.
>> I think coming back to the
statements, I think we should
not blame AI technology for
the wage issue and so on.
I think they're two separate
topics.
Thanks to technology, we can
amplify the human resource,
the work of the human
resources, we can
concentrate the UN resources
on what they're really like
to do.
So we should look at the
opportunities of the
technology.
The other topics regarding
wages and on so should
be treated, I think,
differently without the point
of the technology.
It's all about this new
reinvigorated
social contract about the
wealth
distribution and who is
getting what for what, but
for me this has nothing
to do with technology.
>> OK.
Let me put up one more
question here and then we
will open it up to folks in
the audience as well.
Actually I am going to put
two questions that are sort
of related - one that's
popped up as well.
From an anonymous questioner,
as investors in a low
interest environment I am not
sure we are ready to allow
less profitable companies,
what do you think?
That's interesting because
that question is essentially
saying we're at market
turning point here, we may be
at the end of a credit cycle.
If you think about re
recessions typically having
every eight to 11 years, with
e're 10 years into a global
recovery cycle.
Is this a moment in which
we're going to be able to
make the kind of changes
we're talking about here?
>> I think the assumption is
wrong.
>> OK.
>> Sustainable companies.
>> OK.
>> If you don't believe in
that, I think we need to have
that mind set and I think the
statement is wrong.
If you lead a company you
should believe - if you do
sustainability and doing the
right thing for society, that
is going to bring you a
better strategy, the
customers is going to like
you better and you will have
better products.
If you don't believe that,
wow.
>> But why have we got low or
stagnant growth it comes back
to Henry Ford who got this
right.
If you want to buy your
products you have to have a
living wage.
And consequent ly without
that the cycle of economic
growth when all the world's
concentrated in 1%, the
economics are simple.
>> I'm always fascinating by
Henry Ford that he was pro
demand but anti-union.
We could do another whole
session on him.
>> I will give him that
because he's dead.
>> I am not going into that
conversation!
>> I'm sorry, are we going to
take - are there mics?
Let's go back here and I will
do one more.
>> Thank you.
Thank you very much.
My name Halpin from the
Minister of human resources
and we are responsible for
promoting employment,
developing skill and
extending our social
insurance programs and
promoting Harmon  moan ous
labour relation.
So the topic in this room is
very relevant.
In fact we have a Minister
here attending this
conference, listening very
atentatively.
So the discussion and insight
is really relevant to us.
The question I would like to
ask, perhaps all of you, is
that we - our topic is about
a strategy, job creation
strategy for industry.
In this strategy, there is a
very important group that is
the people who live in
poverty.
So how in developing our
strategies that we can help
those
people that they can adapt -
>> That are vulnerable  >> To
the fourth industrial
revolution and really even
thrive?
Thank you very much
>> That is an interesting
question and I would add
to that something from the
pad here -
how do you create growth in
cities
that are not international
hubs?
In rural areas, in second and
third tier cities?
>> I can start.
I can kick off.
We know each other very well.
Thank you for your presence
and for your questions.
Now, when we looked at the
data and there has been
statistic from
the OECD about the
development of the
employment during the last
10 years.
And it's very interesting.
You see
that in fact the impact of
the future
of work, of the industry 4.0
is mainly
on the medium-skilled people
but
people with rather limited
skills but
perhaps a lot of soft
skills, pa Thi,
customer service and so on,
has not
been impacted by this
technology
inroad.
Also the highly skilled
people have not been really
impacted.
On the contrary, you see the
employment
growing.
The big impact is on the
medium skilled and that's
where we
need to reskill these people
or to upskill them to really
bring them in
the competencies and the
skills, new
technology is requested to
function
>> Maybe the French
experience in
that, first in the big
skills
investment plan which I got
mainly of course young people
and unemployed
people.
So those skills.
The level of unemployment
it's 3% from managers,
there's no more unemployment
for managers.
6% for qualified people.
18%
for un qualified people.
So the first differentiation
is skills.
The second
thing is where you live.
And we have specific program.
When you live in
suburban area or rural area,
we can mesh their you have
with the same qualification
half the chance to get a
job.
If you are not the right
address or you don't have a
way to go there.
So it's part of -
>> And we can see it in our
politics
>> And it's a question of
wages, economic performance
and social equity
>> And the care economy.
>> Contact exactly.
So the family and friends
asking your mothers how do
they get a
job?
How they can be skilled?
So we - how we fill the
gender gap, it's why
we passed a bill on gender
equality and since 1 January
now there's an
obligation of results that
we have built with the social
partners for all
company in France and we
feel very confident because
we have created an
index to measure, to make
progress,
that we have built it
together and for
the first time this will be
the first
report of unions and
entrepreneurs but today we
have 9% of difference of
wages for the same jobs.
Still 46
years after the law the
previous law.
And 25% if you (inaudible).
So that is
the big question of skills
and we
create rights for people
working part
time because 80% are women.
So you have to - you cannot -
what I mean is you're not
going to separate your
policy.
>> It's holistic.
>> One is woman, one is
education, one is
environment, one is
medium-sized all suburbs area
because you have to combine
them and then you can
innovate
>> We have two minutes left
and one very eager questioner
back here.
Make it a quick one.
>> Yes, I think we should use
the fourth industrial
revolution to solve this
problem and not create
indexes between companies and
governments.
Ask the people.
Ask the workers.
And have them develop their
own dashboard about their
customised, personal needs
for training and overcoming
poverty.
Let's not repeat the big
thing.
Now we can reach every worker
with Facebook page,
WhatsApp.
We can now customise the
training needs for every
family in the
world easily.
If we allow them to
measure their own strengths
as and
weaknesses
>> OK, that is a - Zada,
are you going to have a
couple of words here at the
end?
>> I can.
>> Please.
OK.
Saadia, you're on.
This is your show, this is
the woman behind a lot of the
stats you've been hearing
about.
>> Thank you very much, Rana,
and thank you to the panel.
Fascinating conversation.
And I think much more
solutions oriented than in
the past year.
I think we went beyond the
context, beyond discussing
how there might be
disruptions to jobs and
starting to talk about some
of the solutions around job,
education and skills.
Was interesting is all of the
broader factors that came
into play, the topic around
market concentration, the
topic around the need for
better social safety nets all
of this has been taken
forward in the for - forward
in the forum's new centre for
the society and it's meant to
be a response, it's to go to
Alain's point, let's not
worry about technology as the
problem but let's think about
what the opportunity it
spaces and how we deal with
the implications for our
society.
For those of you who would be
interested in continuing the
conversation, please talk to
me or my team.
>> Thank you for that.
Thank you to the panelists
for a really engaging and
action-driven conversation.
