 
 
 
LARA SCHWARTZ:
Welcome, everyone,
to the Project on Civil
Discourse's Summer
Series on Communication
Across Distance.
My name is Lara
Schwartz, and I am
the Director of the
Project on Civil Discourse.
I'm very grateful to
Isabella Domonique, who
is an SPA 2020 grad and
the outgoing coordinator
of our program, for leading our
conversation today on activism,
as well as Daniel Leon-Davis
who was one of my first students
at AU and does stuff, more
to come, and Imani Vice,
and Joshua Dantzler who
are current AU students.
I'm going to fade
into the background,
but I'm just going to give a
quick intro about some process
stuff.
So first of all, for
accessibility purposes,
if you need for
this conversation
to have captioning, our
captioner information
is-- if you go to
the chat function,
you can see the link where
the captioning has happened.
If you come back to
this video later-- this
is being recorded-- and you
choose to share it with friends
or use it for your classes
or whatever you might do,
it will be closed captioned
when it goes live.
So it will be fully accessible.
The chat function is going
to be enabled throughout.
So you can get the
conversation going
and engage with our great
panelists and activists.
We want this to be
interactive conversation.
Isabella will take it away soon.
And the idea is to spend a
bit of time communicating
with the people you
see on the screen
and open it up as well to
all of the participants who
are with us for a real robust
conversation with everyone
with everyone jumping in
because activism is active.
And that's about all for me.
And welcome, Isabella.
ISABELLA DOMONIQUE: Thank you.
I'm very excited to be here
working back with the PCD.
It's only been like
a month, I feel like,
since I've been gone, but
I'm excited to be back.
And with me I have our I guess
guest co-host, special guest,
Daniel Leon-Davis,
who is also going
to provide a brief
introduction of who he is
and the work he does.
DANIEL LEON-DAVIS: Awesome.
Thank you so much, and
thank you for having me.
I love AU, and so I'm always
happy to be invited back
into these conversations.
So to give you a little context
of who I am and what I do,
I actually start with the
fact that I was undocumented
in this country for 19 years.
Like so many other
Dreamers before me,
I actually found out during
my senior year of college--
of high school that
I was undocumented.
And as you can
imagine, as someone
who grew up here since he was
6, to that point realizing
that even though I woke up
every day, went to school,
put my hand on my chest and
pledged allegiance to the flag
that everyone else
did, I actually
wasn't "as American"
as I thought
I was, simply because
of access to papers.
And so I ended up
taking a gap year.
It was way before it was cool--
not even cool-- way
before I was brave enough
to even say publicly that I
was undocumented at the time
and in that gap year got
connected to some folks
and was able to attend
a community college.
That is actually where
my activism started.
Finding out I was undocumented
politicized me in a way
that I never thought I
would be politicized.
I ended up during my
freshman year of college
doing a program called
Clinton Global Initiative
University that was run
by the Clinton Foundation
where I actually learned
what it meant to activate
as a young leader, and
through that was connected
to a Fellowship called Young
People For where I was taught
about community
organizing and took that
back home to my home
state of Florida
where I was doing
community college at.
Fast forward a
couple of years, I
ended up transferring
to American University.
As part of that, one
of my first classes
I had was with the late
Professor Julian Bond,
who was one of Dr.
King's students,
was also one of the
co-founders of SNCC
during the Civil
Rights era, and frankly
just got super, super,
super activated at AU.
I decided to come out as
undocumented at AU organized
around racial justice,
obviously immigration,
as well as
environmental justice.
And for me, being an
activist has always--
since that moment of finding
out I was undocumented
has always been a
big part of my life.
And so when it came
to deciding what
I was going to do for life,
I knew that I was also really
into art, really into media.
And I wanted to find a way
to intersect all of them.
This was before also social
media was as big as it is now.
But for me in that journey,
one of the things--
I actually just found--
I just moved to Atlanta,
but I found the paper
that I wrote for one of
my classes on the power
that MTV had in implementing
a program internationally
around getting tested for HIV
and how much media they used,
how much basically
shows and content they
created around that, which
was the beginning of me being
able to realize that
there was actually
a space for me to intersect
everything that I loved.
And so after graduating
from American University,
I moved to New York
and, within the year,
co-founded a social impact
creative agency called The SOZE
Agency which basically does
work at the intersection of art,
media, entertainment,
and social impact.
And through that,
what I've gotten to do
as the creative director--
I'm no longer there, but what
I got to do for six years
as the Creative
Director was actually
not just build video content--
that obviously works a
lot during quarantine--
but we were actually
building spaces.
We were building
pop-up museums to talk
about the impact of
the fashion industry
on the environment or
building events talking
about voting rights
and the need for us
to actually look at things
through a different lens
using art.
And so through all of that,
really the intersection
for me has been, how
do you create media?
How do you create art?
How do you activate people
who have social power, that
be a celebrity, influencer,
whatever the case might be,
around a social issue?
One of the biggest
campaigns I remember
is actually a campaign
called No Such Thing.
Basically, it was a campaign
that was centered on the fact
that there is no such thing
as a child prostitute.
And yet, every single
time you turn the news on,
people were using
that terminology.
And so we actually went
after the AP Style Guide.
It took us a good year.
We activated everyone from like
P. Diddy to Rosario Dawson.
And the AP Style
Guide came out to us,
and they were like, we're
not going to change this.
This doesn't make sense.
Stop bothering us.
Stop attacking us.
And then the next year, they
dropped the Style Guide.
And literally, the
language was exactly what
we had written for them.
And so a lot of that was just
like the power of social media
and the power of art.
Now I'm the Creative Director
of the I Stand With Immigrants
campaign, which is centered
around uplifting the narratives
of immigrants in this country.
I am also now a US citizen, so
get to say a little bit crazier
things without being
worried about who's going
to come knocking at my door.
But through that work,
it's been now seven years
of doing this campaign.
Through that work, it's
all narrative change based.
And really, the focus
has been the same thing
I've been talking about,
utilizing art, media,
and entertainment.
And so today we launched a video
with the likes of Aloe Blacc.
We've had everyone from French
Montana, Miguel, Rosario
Dawson, Kerry Washington
involved in these campaigns.
And I'm really just
intrigued by the use
of social power for that.
And that's why I'm excited to
be part of this conversation.
I also had Professor
Schwartz, as she mentioned,
during what I believe was
her first undergraduate class
at AU.
And we've stayed
connected since then.
So just happy to be
here with you all.
ISABELLA DOMONIQUE: Thank
you so much for sharing that.
Yeah, that was a
really cool story.
I feel like my bio is probably
like 10% of the excitement.
DANIEL LEON-DAVIS: Nah,
don't downplay it like that.
ISABELLA DOMONIQUE:
So, yeah, I'll
provide a little
bit about myself
and, I guess, my
interest in this topic.
So like Professor
Schwartz was saying,
I just graduated from
AU a month ago in May.
And during my time at AU I
think is also where I definitely
got radicalized in different
forms of activism and advocacy
and, I guess, just the
different pathways you
can take as a student.
So I was initially involved
in a program called DC Reads
that we have at AU,
which basically opened
my eyes to a lot of
the injustices that
exist in DC with the
education system.
And I think seeing how
the DC area impacts
a lot of the black
and brown students
that grow up there was
definitely different from where
I grew up, which is suburban
Colorado and probably 98%
white.
And so it was definitely
really interesting to see just
how inequities can be different
across different education
spaces.
And from there, I got involved
with our campus's NAACP
and eventually became the
President of that chapter
and then also founded and
created our AU Black Caucus
Committee, which
is essentially like
an overarching organization
of all the black organizations
that exist at AU, just
because I think we have--
I don't know-- like 17 or
18 now, which is quite a bit
for a PWI.
And so we essentially
needed a way
to come together and
organize and, I think,
prove our legitimacy as black
students who need things
to administrators.
So I did that.
And then I also served
as our Student Liaison
to the Black Alumni
Alliance as well.
And I think during
my time at AU,
it was interesting because
I did a lot of work
with policy and
advocacy and just
doing general
NAACP things, which
are a lot more like behind
the scenes activism work.
And then since being
home in Denver,
just after COVID-19 happened
and everyone got set back,
and especially now with
the protests going on,
it's been a very different
change in my activism.
And I've been leading a lot of
the protests here in Denver.
So it's interesting seeing a
different side of, I guess,
which activism type I
prefer, because I definitely
used to think it
was just advocacy,
and doing policy, and
meeting with administrators,
and doing that kind of
behind the scenes work.
But I'm exploring a
different side of that now.
So stay tuned.
And then we are also joined
by two current students,
Imani Vice and Joshua Dantzler.
And Imani, I'll have you
introduce yourself as well.
But Imani is currently
a rising junior,
and she is taking
over my position
as the Black Caucus
Committee Chair.
So I am very excited
to have her on.
And Joshua is a rising senior,
and he's done a lot of work
with AU Center for
Diversity & Inclusion
and is also a member
of Alpha Phi Alpha
Fraternity, Incorporated.
Imani, do you want
to go ahead and just
start with maybe a
brief introduction?
IMANI VICE: Yes I'm
really excited to be here.
As Isabella alluded
to, I am currently
the Interim Chair for the
Black Caucus Committee at AU.
I'm also the Director of
Community Engagement with AUSG.
So I'm excited to build
that advocacy role
and tie in making sure that all
voices are heard on a student
activist level so that it's just
very inclusive for everyone.
I'm also a DC
Read's Team Leader.
So as Isabella
also alluded to, it
gives me the opportunity to
see not only where I'm from,
Baltimore Maryland,
where we have
a lot of educational
disparities,
but also in DC, just seeing
how in our nation's capital,
we have all these different
socioeconomic disparities,
educational
disparities, and just
how they exist
when we're in such
a profitable and economically
flourishing community
such as AU.
So just seeing how we
have certain things that--
just certain issues
that are going on,
how we can eradicate those
disparities, that's definitely
something that I've been very
fortunate to definitely delve
in through policy
here in Baltimore,
working with how to reform the
education system, specifically
the public school
system in Baltimore,
trying to see if there's more
of a vocational understanding
reaching the needs,
reforming the education
system to actually make sure
that the students are thought
of, not more so
just the economy but
looking at students more
so as individuals and not
just statistics and numbers.
So that inspiration
that I had, was
delving into in high
school, definitely led
into a lot of the activism
that I'm doing currently
in DC with DC Reads
and as well with just
interactions with administrators
and just how AU's role goes
into this system of
education disparities.
How do we use that and
our voices in that sense?
So yeah, that's a
little bit about me
in different ways
very condensed.
But yeah, thank you for having
ISABELLA DOMONIQUE: Me.
Thank you.
And then Joshua, do you want
to go ahead and share more
about yourself, too?
JOSHUA DANTZLER: Yes.
Joshua Dantzler, he,
him, his pronouns.
Thank you for having me.
Thank you for all who are
tuning in and for being here.
Like I said or
Isabella said, I am
a rising fourth-year student, a
senior at American University,
studying Political Science
with a minor in Communication.
And I study communication
because with my activism
and with my start into
activism in high school,
I've always been interested in
how we communicate activism.
How do we communicate
what's going on?
How do communicate
those injustices?
How do we communicate
the movement?
How do we engage folks?
And so I became active in
activism in high school,
really when I started
understanding the Black Lives
Matter movement, when
I started realizing
the continuation
of police brutality
not just on older black folk
but also young black folk.
And so when I began to see
myself as a Trayvon Martin
or as a Tamir Rice,
I began to say,
hey, I can't just sit here.
I can't just sit back.
I have to fight for those
black men, those black women,
those black individuals who are
my age, who could be my age,
and who fell victim or who fell
short due to police brutality.
So I began my activism
in high school.
And then in college, I
began to study, again,
just how communication
plays into activism,
how we communicate.
How do we look at movements?
How do we analyze movements?
And so in college, I've taken
more of an educator role.
I'm learning about
activism more, but still
having it at the
forefront of my life,
so forefront in
terms of just campus
initiatives, and policies, and
in the offices that I've held
and the positions I've
held in with my fraternity,
and how as an activist, how
can I then thus educate others
while also still being
at the front line
but also thinking about largely,
how do we communicate activism?
How do we tell the story?
The stories often
repeat themselves.
And what story are we telling?
What story we
elevating, amplifying?
And also, how are we
making sure that we're
telling the right story
with activism for sure?
So that's my spiel,
a little bit.
But I'm happy to be here, happy
to engage in conversation,
and, again, thankful
for the opportunity.
ISABELLA DOMONIQUE: Awesome!
Thank you so much.
So we're going to go
ahead and kick it off
with our first question, which
is directed toward Daniel.
And I guess I'm wondering
what kind of advice
you might have to students
on activism within PWIs
and what that looks like,
especially just given
current events and what's
going on now with the world
and what that looks like, I
guess, as a microcosm on a PWI.
DANIEL LEON-DAVIS: Yeah, no.
Of course.
I also-- before I
answer this question,
I want to flag that every
PWI is not the same,
like I think that--
and even AU has as its own
problems, to be very frank.
And I think everyone in this
conversation would agree.
But I think that I've
had friends who've
gone to PWIs where
they are literally
one of three people of
color on the entire campus.
And I think that what's
really interesting about being
in that space and
particularly being
in a school that's a
liberal arts school is also
how you think about organizing.
Most times when you're
thinking about organizing,
you're thinking about
organizing your own community.
So think about like for me
with immigration or just even
things that were going
on campus in regards
to racial justice that was
going on while I was there,
you're organizing around black
and brown people together.
And you're like,
all right, let's
build community, and let's
use our collective power.
I think what's interesting
with a PWI is actually
having to have that conversation
around allies in a way
that you don't have
it in other spaces,
in a way where sometimes you
actually have to organize
with the ally as a
primary person, actor,
only because you need to be
able to leverage their power.
And I felt that that's what
I had to do even being at AU.
Even though I had
this cohort of dope
young black and brown people,
we were such a small number
in comparison to,
frankly, the white people
on campus, that you really
had to organize around
the conversation around
allyship and how that shows up.
And so I think about that
often because it has led me--
and it sounds like
we're all obviously
doing activism,
work which is dope
and being on campus and
being in different stages.
But for me, it was
interesting because I
didn't see that translate
until maybe a couple of years
ago where I realized that like,
yo, I can organize as much as I
want around immigrants.
And just be like,
immigrants, we're
empowered, blah, blah, blah.
And then having to realize that
this campaign that we launched
called I Am An Immigrant,
one of the biggest things
that we got from people
was like, all right,
but I'm not an immigrant,
but I support immigrants.
And so we actually shifted
the entire campaign
to be called I Stand
With Immigrants.
And the big piece
of that is actually
like, when we did our
planning for this year,
we were like, yo, our
primary audience is not
preaching to the
choir of immigrants
that we know also need
support, also need work.
But in order to change the
things we want to change,
we have to go for allies.
I think the other thing
about-- the other thing I'll
add around organizing on
a PWI is like, what does
the administration look like?
You know what I mean?
Because I think that for
us, for me personally,
it was important to have black
and brown administrators that I
could go to and be like, y'all,
this is some messed up shit
going on.
And how do I even go around
trying to get into the rooms
I need to get into?
And more often than
not, it was them
who were actually bringing
me into the spaces,
making sure that I
got the meetings when
I was trying to organize
around administrators.
So I think that that's a
really, really big part.
I'm interested to hear
the current students, what
it's like for you all
organizing on campus.
JOSHUA DANTZLER: I think you
really touched on something
that I hadn't thought
about in preparing
for this but the definite
need to identify allies.
And as you said,
we're surrounded--
as black and brown students
on these PWI campuses,
we are surrounded by a lot
of like-minded individuals,
a lot of dope individuals,
folks who are our brothers
and sisters in this fight.
But because of the positions
and the population,
we have to identify those
allies because the voices of--
sometimes the voices
of a lot are louder
than the voices of a few.
And so making sure that when
we are engaging with allies--
so it's a lot.
So it's twofold.
It's, one, making sure we're
identifying the allies,
but it's also making
sure that we're
educating the allies so
that they can stand properly
with us.
And that "with" is
something so crucial
because I often tell
folks that I don't need
allies to stand in front of me.
I don't need allies
to stand behind me.
I need allies to stand with me.
And so when you're
standing with me,
you're saying that, hey, I'm
not going to overpower you,
I'm going to outshine you,
I'm not going to out-talk you.
And when you're
behind me, you're
not saying that, I'm just going
to make you do all the work.
When you're behind me, you're
not just pushing me up.
Rather, you're with
me saying, hey,
if your voice gets
tired a little bit,
I have the knowledge and
I have the experience
that you taught me to
articulate your experience,
articulate your
struggle in the way that
not compromising those
things or compounding them,
but it's standing with.
And so I think it's
really crucial in this.
Every issue, you don't
have the same allies.
There's not the same allies for
every issue, and there's not--
and I think allyship,
every ally doesn't--
isn't as vocal as the next.
So it's knowing that
if we're standing
in the line for
this issue, if we're
standing in line for an issue
on campus, say food insecurity,
not everyone's going to be as
vocal about food insecurity,
but I still need
my allies to talk
about it because black and
brown students are affected
by food insecurity
disproportionately
than other students.
So it's really trying to
identify who can be the allies.
And sometimes those who--
those allies also have
connections to, again,
those administrators.
And identifying those
key administrators
are very crucial,
especially in trying
to get long-lasting
change on campus.
IMANI VICE: Yeah.
Joshua, you definitely
hit it on the head.
I just want to highlight
and elaborate on something
you said when it comes
to allyship because I
went to a PWI for high school.
And obviously we've
always had racial issues
that as black students,
we were just aware of,
and we were working towards,
and we were fighting towards it.
And a lot of people weren't
necessarily engaged.
They didn't have this
devotion towards the things
that we were fighting for.
So I had a negative view of
allyship of more so like, OK,
this is my fight.
I'm going to just
keep it moving.
I know it firsthand.
So I'm just going
to push through it.
Fight, fight, fight.
And it wasn't until coming to
AU, but specifically this year
and in this specific,
I guess, the time
that we're in right now,
with everything that's
going on with George
Floyd, with Breonna Taylor,
and we're seeing the
incoming pouring of support
where I really highlight
the importance of allyship
just because of
what Joshua said.
I am tired.
I've been fighting
for these things
since I was in middle
school, like using
my voice since-- actually
since I was just made aware
of the situation, as a
black woman, of racism
and how I'm
perceived in America.
So just understanding that this
has been an ongoing situation.
Whether we vocally
talk about it or not,
it's an issue that
I have to deal with.
So because I'm tired,
I couldn't even
look at the video
of George Floyd.
But when I saw the outpour,
I didn't have any worries.
I didn't have anything to fight.
I didn't.
I was tired.
So when I saw all of
these allies coming out,
I was just like--
I was very grateful, in a
sense, because I couldn't
give any more at that moment.
It was just such sadness and
just disparity at that point
where I was just like, I--
you have to do it.
You have to take this on for me
right now because I have very
little to give at this moment.
So I think the
importance of allyship
is understanding that, yeah, I
won't really understand fully
the depth of their pain, but
I'm a carrier for you when
you can't carry it.
And it's not a sense of
like, oh, I'm saving you
or anything like that.
I don't want it to be a savior
concept or anything like that.
But it's more so I'm sympathetic
to the-- not pitying,
but I'm sympathetic,
not empathetic,
because you can't
really understand
as my experience
as a black woman
not being a black
person or a black woman.
But I understand that
I won't understand,
but I have to keep
fighting for you, with you.
I'm fighting with you.
And I think that aspect of
fighting for me is fighting
with me in some instances.
So I think that
instance of allyship
with carrying it when
I can't carry it,
because it takes a toll on
you, especially when you've
been fighting this for so long.
So I think, Joshua,
you definitely
hit the importance of
when my voice is tired
because I've been
screaming for years,
I've been talking for years.
So at this moment, I
think that this right now
essentially for me highlights
the importance of allyship,
something that I never really
understood until I was like,
oh, I have nothing else to give.
So yeah, I think you
definitely hit it on the head
with the importance of allyship.
ISABELLA DOMONIQUE:
I think, too,
as an, I guess, concluding
note on that question,
I think you both really
articulated that really well.
And it makes me
very happy that AU's
being left in the hands of you
two and a lot of your peers.
And I think another key
point about allyship
that I've noticed, especially
in the Denver protest
where Denver's majority
white and our protests
are majority white, especially
about a black issue,
is that I hope that those that
label themselves as an ally
don't put themselves in a
situation where they may be
a burden on their black
peers, because that's
a lot of what I'm
experiencing here in Denver
where it's just--
Colorado's very friendly.
It's a lot of very friendly
white liberals who live here.
And that's great, but
it's a lot of people
who I think are well-intentioned
but actually do a lot of harm
still, even if they want to
label themselves as an ally.
And it's real exhausting to
be fighting white supremacy
and the police and then also be
looking to people in the crowd
like, did y'all
really just say that?
It's like a double battle.
And I feel like in order to
label yourself as an ally,
you really need to be mindful
of the words you're using
and mindful of the
actions you have.
Yeah.
I don't know.
I think that's a concluding
thought I had about allyship
step on that front.
So, I guess, continuing
on with our discussion,
we wanted to shift it, like
shift the conversation over
to civil discourse and
what activism looks
like on online platforms.
So, I guess, the
next question, too,
especially for Imani being
the Chair of the Black Caucus
Committee, what does activism
look like with the Committee,
especially with
everything going on now?
And how are, I guess,
challenges, but also--
I don't know--
I guess, yeah, just challenges
being presented, just given
the online platform and having
to organize our community
while being pretty separated.
IMANI VICE: Yeah, this
is definitely something
I'm still trying
to figure out just
with mobilizing through
technology, which is not--
is definitely difficult.
But I think that looks like
just making sure you're
advocating for people to take
care of themselves, especially
with the Black Caucus
because it's comprised
of black leadership.
And as I said before,
black leaders,
especially on AU's campus,
whenever there's an issue
or when there's not
an apparent issue,
black students are
always fighting,
especially black leaders.
So just making sure that our
black leaders are taken care of
and that they're taking
care of themselves,
knowing that they're
loved and appreciated.
So it's not as if the fight
is stopping, and we're like,
we got to stop.
Just everything's
still movement,
but I think before every
meeting or whatever
is going on and during
the meetings, at the end,
I always try and conclude with,
please take care of yourself.
Please reach out
if there's anything
that I can help you with,
just making ourselves
accessible for each other
with having that conversation
that, I'm not OK.
I don't know what's going on.
I don't know how I feel.
And so I think definitely
just mobilizing starts with,
how are you doing?
How are you feeling?
Taking care of each other
and I think also just
being very flexible, in a sense.
Zoom fatigue is real.
So we're always on
Zoom a long time.
So just trying to be very
flexible with the situations
you're given.
So yes, Zoom fatigue,
that's something
that I'm always working
with, non-response
and just because
different time zones.
So that's always just--
it just seems like the issues
and the inconveniences never
seem to stop.
But I think it really
comes down to the passion.
No one's really
ever let me down.
I know that some
people may not respond.
I'm like, why aren't
people responding?
But it comes to when
work needed to be done,
when things need
to happen, people
are very passionate about the
things we're fighting for.
So it comes down to
people just being there,
just taking their time,
taking their space,
and just me as a leader in this
position just acknowledging,
hey, you take your space.
I have full faith in
you to come through when
you need to come through.
And if you can't
come through, that's
OK because you're
taking care of yourself.
So I think just
flexibility and really
just reading the room in
a sense, understanding.
Just going-- I think I can't
really give a formula to it,
but more so just
acknowledging what's going on,
reading the space,
and moving, being
flexible in that sense,
if that makes sense.
ISABELLA DOMONIQUE: Awesome.
Thank you so much.
And I think Imani brought
up a really great point
about self-care and what
taking care of ourselves
as activists look like.
So Daniel and Josh,
if you guys also
want to maybe
elaborate on what that
looks like within
the movement and also
maybe how to separate
yourself not from the movement
but to take time away while
not completely detaching.
DANIEL LEON-DAVIS: All
right, I'll go first.
So I find this really
interesting in regards
to where we're at in this time.
I think for me, Zoom fatigue
is super, super real.
I don't know what
it is about Zoom.
It just takes so
much more energy
than being in
person with people.
And I think part
of it is like you
can be in person with
people and just be quiet,
but you're sharing space,
whereas on Zoom, you're
just looking at people like, all
right, so who's going to talk,
because like it shouldn't
be silent, right?
I think organizing for
me is really interesting
because one-- something that
you all brought up earlier
was basically moving through
those stages of what organizing
can look like for you.
I think people, and
particularly the media,
is like, all right, the
activist is the person who
is out on the street making
the demand, so on and so forth,
not realizing that movements,
and not just movements of now
but movements of forever,
have actually been so broad.
And that was a really
big piece for me
because, even though I
was trained in community
organizing, even though I
was the kid who showed up
to American because they were
so good about undocumented
students, and then lo
and behold, I get there,
and it was BS, and I'm
like, I'm the one that's
willing to call them
out on it, my passion
is actually in art
medium entertainment.
My passion is in
using those tools.
And so what I found
interesting in all of this
is also, what's your
place in the movement?
Everyone's place-- and even
when you defined your place,
it doesn't have to be
the same all the time.
And so for me, I know that
activating artists is probably
my favorite thing
to do in movement.
When something happens,
I am the person who
wants to be on the phone with
an artist being like, yo,
what can we create right now
to get people to understand,
to see this?
And so I think I used
to feel a lot of shame
when I started realizing
that was like my superpower,
because I was like,
oh no, but I have
to be demanding this on
the street all the time,
or I have to be doing XYZ.
And so in the time
of social distancing,
I think what's been
interesting for me was, one,
I've been running social media
campaigns and things regarding
social media for
seven years now.
So that feels
really normal to me.
And a lot of our
movements of now, I feel,
have been activated
through that.
But I think in regards
to connecting with folks,
I do a lot more one-on-one
checking in than I've ever
done before because I realized
what you get in a group setting
in person is you're
somehow able to build
those individual connections
while still being in a group,
whereas on Zoom, you're
not really getting that.
You're not really sharing
that all the time.
It doesn't mean it
can't happen, but I
feel like a lot more
of my time has actually
been taken up calling
people one by one
and being like, yo, let's
talk about the strategy
for this thing that
we want to move,
or, hey, let's talk
about this piece,
and not always on video either.
Frankly, sometimes I just
want to not see your face.
And so I think being really
transparent about that.
And that's what I love
about our generations is
that we're pretty transparent.
We'll tell you how it is.
And that's a really, really
big piece of all of this.
So yeah.
I'm going to pass
it over to Joshua.
JOSHUA DANTZLER:
As always, I feel
like I'm just surrounded
by greatness on this panel
because every point
I want to make
or everything I wanted
to say is already said.
And so I won't be that
guy to like piggy back off
or I won't be like,
to rehash, no.
But I just want to say, I guess,
to address the self-care piece,
Isabella, is just to really--
I found myself-- and it's
hard because social media is--
and I don't know if we
talked about this or not,
but social media is
such a great educator
about a lot of this stuff.
And I'm like, I'm
being educated,
and I'm educating other
folks and re-sharing.
And so I'm on it all the
time, but also knowing that
with this movement,
that it can be
so consuming and overwhelming
that you sometimes
have to take a step back.
With self-care in
this movement for
me is that I've turned
my notifications off.
So I'm still on the apps.
I'm still on Twitter,
on Instagram,
but I'm not notified
when something happens.
So I have to personally notify
myself to thus then get on.
And so I'm not saying
to get off social media.
But for me, self-care
is saying that, hey, I'm
not having the
pressure necessarily
to check the application
because I'm not notified.
But I'm still being on,
I'm still being informed,
I'm still being engaged.
And then it's taking
time to be outside.
I feel like I have
been outside the most
that I've ever been in my
recent couple of months
and recent years.
And I'm like, I'm getting
my physical fitness in,
I'm walking, or I'm
taking a phone call
and I'm walking outside
checking in with people.
I'm riding my bike.
I'm listening to music.
I'm listening to my Black
Lives Matter playlist,
and I'm getting empowered
through my bike ride.
So finding little pockets
of the day at least to not
engage with the work
directly, because if you're
in-- and finding that rest,
because if you're on seven
days, six days out of the
seven days of the week,
you really can not be
energized as you should be
or this movement
requires you to be.
And if that's the
goal, if the goal is
to be energized, if the
goal is to be fully present,
then you have to allow yourself
to be present by yourself
for you to be present
amongst other folks.
And so I definitely have
found that as a little respite
to the movement because the
movement is a continuous.
And we've been out
protesting for three weeks
for days on end.
And so, how do you find yourself
the option, the opportunity
to recharge and to
replenish yourself
so that you can come
back to the movement
even bigger and better?
ISABELLA DOMONIQUE: Awesome.
Thank you so much.
I'll definitely be taking your
advice on self-care, especially
from the movement.
So I guess the final
question that I
have for everybody
before we open it up
to audience questions-- which
for the audience, if you'd
like to prepare yourself
to ask a question,
you can just unmute yourself
and do so, or put it in the chat
if you'd rather not expose
yourself by unmuting yourself.
But the last question I had
was, I guess, just in regards
to again also educating
people about race relations
and everything going on in
America right now and maybe
just other different activism
points that are happening,
what does a productive
conversation look like to you?
DANIEL LEON-DAVIS: Well,
I want to add something
to the previous question
real quick or the previous--
one of the things
I see online a lot
is like, I'm not going to rest.
And I think like a lot of
particularly the last 10
years of movement learned
was that is not it.
And that is some white
supremacist thinking
that they want you to be like,
you're not going to rest.
You're just going to keep
going until we win this fight,
because the reality is
this is a long-term fight.
Even people who started
a lot of these movement--
Patrisse Cullors talks
about this all the time,
about how much you have
to take care of yourself.
So I just want to re-emphasize
that because that's
so important.
And I know so many people
who have burned out,
and they burn out and never
come back, never come back.
They're like, I'm good,
I'm scarred, rather than
sort of this rejuvenation
that Joshua was talking about
and Imani were talking about.
In regards to productive
conversations,
I actually just had
an interview where
I was talking about this because
my biggest thing is proximity.
Bryan Stevenson talks about
this concept of proximity
and actually knowing someone.
For me, I grew up in
Florida, super purple state,
did not talk about
politics, was not
talked about politics at home,
other than about immigration
really, but didn't understand
that people have not
bad viewpoints but
different viewpoints
that were actually
harmful towards me,
which I guess is bad.
If your viewpoints harm my
body or harm my community
in a violent way, it's bad.
So my biggest thing
was I was definitely
the kid who changed a
lot of people's minds
simply because they
were like, wait,
but there's no way
you're an immigrant.
So when I came out, it
was a really big thing
to a lot of people I
would end up finding out
were super Republican
back home in Florida,
because they would
be like, no, but I've
known you your whole life.
You've been here.
What are you talking about?
And it's very, frankly,
white supremacist like,
but you speak really well.
You're a straight A student.
You're a good immigrant.
There's no way you're like
them, but I think it's that.
And that's what I've used a
lot in all of my conversations
is there's this proximity.
Let's be very clear.
Proximity does not mean,
oh, I have a black friend.
I know what this is.
You know what I mean?
It actually means having
someone who you're able to--
who you care for, who you love,
but who you also understand
and seek to understand.
And that also doesn't mean--
I know I think Joshua or Imani--
no, Joshua, you
mentioned it earlier.
Part of being an ally is
also being educated by us,
but there's also some of us
that don't want to educate
some folks, and that's OK.
And I think that's what it
goes back to again, realizing
there's just different people in
different parts of the movement
and in different
parts of this journey.
And so for me, a productive
conversation is, look,
I'm down to have--
I've had conversations
about gun rights
with folks who are
like literally carrying
a AR-15s across their chest.
And we're face to face and
had an hour long conversation
that led to them then
protecting the group I was with.
And so I think that the piece
is like, how are you showing up
in the conversation?
And that's also how I
try to think about it.
But as soon as this becomes
about harm in any way, I'm out.
But I know some people
who have a lot--
who are willing to have a
lot deeper conversations
with people who I'm just
like, I'm good, I'm good.
So it's also about protecting
yourself in a lot of ways.
ISABELLA DOMONIQUE: For sure.
Awesome.
Josh and Imani, did you want to
add to that quickly before we
move over to questions?
JOSHUA DANTZLER: Just listen.
I think that's for me--
conversations require listening
and listening intently.
And if you want to have
a conversation with me,
I would expect you to
like listen to my--
listen to what I'm
sharing with you.
Don't take it as Bible, because
it's just my perspective
and my viewpoint.
Black folks, organizers, brown
folks, we're not a monolith.
So don't just take my
word as is, but just
listen to what I have to say.
And you don't necessarily
have to tell me sorry,
but show your actions
through your message.
You don't have to
apologize to me,
or don't continue to
say sorry, because as I
was told growing up, sorry
doesn't change things
sometimes.
So show me through your
actions, and let your actions
speak louder than your words.
ISABELLA DOMONIQUE: Right.
Awesome.
JOSHUA DANTZLER: But
that's all I had to add.
IMANI VICE: Well, I
don't really have--
I think they just
hit it on the head.
Yeah, I agree.
ISABELLA DOMONIQUE: OK, cool.
I'll just go ahead and quickly
answer this question that's
in the chat.
I think everyone has
access to see it.
But it says, "I'd be curious
to hear more from Isabella
about the harm she sees
so-called allies do
in Denver or elsewhere."
So yeah, Denver, just for
some very brief context,
was really going through it.
I don't know what's happening,
but it's a lot of cooptation
that's going on in
the movement, and it
was really scary to see all of
that go on about two weeks ago.
And that's what pushed me to
stand up against that just
because I was not going to
sit at home and ignore it.
And I certainly wasn't going to
participate in All Lives Matter
protests, which is essentially
what's going on in Denver.
And a lot of it was being--
for context, was led by
some black men and obviously
white people in Denver who
are malleable in terms of race
conversations and
thoughts about race,
just especially when there's
a black person telling you
how to think.
It was just a crazy situation.
And so basically-- let's see--
I think it was this last
Friday, we did a march
to the Denver DA's house.
And there was a man who--
he was young.
He was like 21.
He was my age, and he was
murdered by the police
last August.
And people have been sharing
photos and videos of him.
He used to play violin to cats
in Humane Societies and stuff
like that, which
is really adorable.
And I think people are
doing a lot more work
to prove that Elijah McClain was
a human who was worthy of not
being killed by the police.
And so a lot of
that messaging was
coming from my people like,
oh, look at how sweet he was.
That's the cutest thing.
He was so adorable for
playing violin to the cats.
And to me, I don't think
that any person should
have to prove their
humanity or their worth,
especially when it comes to
being murdered from the police
or murdered by the police.
And so it's just
that language that I
think we're ingrained to
use, especially in a country
where there's a white
default in a lot of the ways
we communicate.
And I think, too, even
some of the pushback
I've received from the way I've
communicated with protesters
or people in Denver, like
there's a lot of white people
who will say like, oh,
you need to make it
so that your words are
like less divisive,
or you should
communicate in XYZ way.
And I actually
don't think I need
to change how I'm communicating,
especially when I'm
feeling anger, and rage,
and grief all in one moment
and still trying to
improve the country.
That's a lot of
emotional burden,
and I don't think it's
on me as a black woman
to take that on and change
the way I communicate.
Instead, I think, as
Joshua was saying,
people should just
listen and not so much
be offended by
what I have to say
but understand why those
words are coming out
of my mouth the
way that they are.
And I think when you tell black
people like, oh, white people
are more apt to listen to you
if you communicate in XYZ way,
you're just invalidating
our experiences,
because, quite honestly,
the way I'm communicating
is the way I'm communicating
because I'm angry, and I'm sad,
and I'm upset.
Also, because a lot of
the people in Denver
just simply weren't doing
this work like a month ago
whereas we've been doing
this work for years.
So it's just absolutely
not your place
to tell me how I should
be communicating with you.
And so that's the allyship
that we see in Denver.
And I think a lot of that just
speaks to the white default
that we have here in
America where everything
needs to be palatable
to white folks in order
for it to change.
So I hope that answers your
question, [? Catherine. ?]
Let's see.
These are long questions.
Does anyone have a
question they wanted
to ask, like unmute while I
read through some of these?
LARA SCHWARTZ: I'm curious for--
I'm looking at some
of the participants.
There's a generational
difference, I think, in the way
that people see
communication and activism.
And I think that
both the generation
of which the four of
you are more a part
are both more comfortable
in activist spaces
often than older
people, and then
as well more comfortable
in online spaces
than older people.
And so I think these
are questions about--
allyship is or have
come into the mix.
But what are people--
a lot of the people running the
institutions that will really
affect you, like whether
it's American University,
other universities,
employers, are
going to come from
an older generation.
They're going to
be Gen X like me,
or boomers or whatever,
older millennials--
like Daniel, I think,
is a younger millennial.
What do they and we have
just wrong about ultimately
the people who are the
voice of the next generation
of leadership,
which is all of you?
And how do they have
to listen, basically?
DANIEL LEON-DAVIS: I can't talk
about exactly who it is yet
because there's some
organizing going on,
but I think that what
people are having to realize
is your constituents are us.
And so I think there
was a very accepted--
not very accepted.
It's not like this is the first
time that there's activism,
but there were
norms particularly
in academic institution,
in foundations,
in non-profits that
were very like, look,
these are the people
making the rules.
It's OK, they know best.
We put them in power.
They're like, they're
the people we trust,
without it being questioned.
And I felt like
that happened a lot.
And even when I was younger, I
felt like that happened a lot.
And I think what particularly--
and I am a millennial,
but what I have--
I'm trying to not
curse, but what
I freaking love
about Gen Z is like--
and I feel like our generation
also started it, was like, yo,
we're going to
question everything.
We want to see everything.
We want to be--
we want you to be
transparent about everything.
And so I think what's catching
people off guard, particularly
people who are leading
these organizations
or institutions, whatever
the case might be,
is that they're used to being
in a position of power where
they're no longer questioned,
where they're almost--
it was almost
designed as if they
were the parent, the parent
who is like, no, no, no.
Don't ask me.
I know best.
It's all good.
And now we're in
this position where
it's like you can no
more-- because you actually
have XYZ level of experience
and you have all this stuff,
but we're going to require
you to be transparent.
And I think that
transparency is really
what's messing up
a lot of people
right now because they're not--
people aren't used to
being held to that level
of accountability.
And what that forces is
people realizing like, look,
transparency is so
needed at this point
because the less
transparent you are,
the more we're going
to question you.
And so when you look at all
the companies that came out two
weeks ago and were like, hey,
by the way, Black Lives Matter,
hey, we love you--
you know what I mean--
the people who've
gotten attention
are the people who were like,
hey, by the way, so, one,
we believe Black Lives Matter.
Two, here's the reporting
of all of the data
from our leadership,
our senior leadership
in regards to people
of color and women
represented at this company.
Hey, we're not doing
a good enough job,
and we're going to do better.
And this is what the
plan looks like publicly.
And I think so many people have
this behind the closed doors
ideology on what power
should look like that Gen Z
and millennials are
like, actually no.
That door should
be a glass door.
You can hold the power
because we actually
decided that you were
going to hold that power.
You were responsible
enough to hold that power,
but as a community, we just
want to check in on you and see.
So I think that that's what's
really interesting about now
and that generational
difference is frankly
the ask for transparency, and
not just from these nonprofits
and whatever but from
companies, from corporations.
LARA SCHWARTZ: Looks like
there's a question-- oh, sorry.
looks like there's--
IMANI VICE: Oh, no.
LARA SCHWARTZ: --a question
about modalities of connecting,
too.
ISABELLA DOMONIQUE:
Imani, did you
have something to add before
we jump into the next question
by Professor Schwartz?
IMANI VICE: Yeah.
Really briefly, I was just
going to say just I think, also,
when it comes to older
generations as the allusion
or the comparison to parents
and children, I think it's like,
oh well, I know best,
definitely that hush hush.
But it's also an invalidation of
how we express certain things.
So I think just because
we aren't going along
with how your parents
did it or how you all
did it doesn't necessarily
mean that you can invalidate
how we express our voices.
So I think just that listening
aspect and not the invalidation
because we aren't going
with your social codes
or how you thought it
was deemed acceptable.
So also, I think that listening
is OK even as an elder.
Listening to people who
are younger than you,
that is also a
respectable trait.
It's not necessarily
taking away your honor,
taking away the
power that you have.
I think it's even more
honorable to put yourself
in a position to learn from
people younger than you.
So yeah, I think that aspect of
yes, you can hold that power,
but you can also listen.
You can also not invalidate what
I have to say or my existence.
So allow me to express
and grieve and just
be how I want to be in
this moment authentically
without you having to maneuver
or alter the situation just
because it's different from
how you all did that process.
So that's just my two cents.
ISABELLA DOMONIQUE: That
was a nice two cents.
I really felt that.
Professor Schwartz, what was the
question you were going to ask?
LARA SCHWARTZ:
There was a question
in the chat about modalities.
We're here together
today on Zoom,
and I know that a lot of people
are looking for other ways
to be connected.
And one of our attendees
raised that same point.
How do we connect and
socially distance outside
of this modality?
DANIEL LEON-DAVIS:
Raise your hand
if you've been
added to more group
chats since social
distancing started.
Literally, I use group
chats personally.
I've been on group
chats for forever,
but I use group chats
as an organizing tool.
And even for work,
I've literally
started moving people.
And I used to be a very like,
phone, email, don't text me,
just email me
person, but realizing
that it's just easier for
me to organize people.
And one of the things
that I realized was I--
like I said, I get
really easy Zoom fatigue.
I give myself max
an hour of Zoom.
This is my hour of Zoom today.
That is it.
There will be no more
Zoom for the day.
And so for me, it's
actually being able to text.
And I know that for a lot of
people that feels impersonal,
but for a lot of
the communities I
belong to, it's actually
been a way for us to,
like as soon as quarantine
started, got thrown into all
of these group chats, where
it's actually just us checking
in on each other that then
led to like, oh, by the way,
this is going on.
How are we going to organize
around this together,
and using that.
Other than that, I--
like I said, I do
one-on-one calls,
but that takes a
nice chunk of time.
[INTERPOSING VOICES]
LARA SCHWARTZ: And I think
as a-- to wrap together the--
Imani's wisdom and Daniel's
to close out our brief hour
together, listening is so key.
And I think this is really
important for administrators,
faculty, parents, teachers,
leaders, people who govern.
Listen to the people
around you about the way
that they are ready to
communicate with you.
So if you know that
there are people
you're trying to organize, or
teach, or gather, or console,
whatever role you
play with them,
and you know that
they actually are
quite accessible on
FaceTime or a chat
and less so on other
modalities, be there.
It's not that hard
to come and be
where people are in
terms of modality,
just like we're all trying to
practice being where people are
in terms of their tone, their
mood, their needs, their goals,
their selves.
And I think that
that's something
that my students have
been teaching me.
So I know we're at
the end of the hour,
and these things these
things conclude on a dime.
But thank you to everyone,
Isabella, Daniel, Imani,
Joshua, amazing guests.
You are great, and
the future feels
better hearing your voices.
ISABELLA DOMONIQUE: Awesome.
[INTERPOSING VOICES] Thank
you all so much for coming.
DANIEL LEON-DAVIS:
Thank you all.
ISABELLA DOMONIQUE:
You're welcome.
[INAUDIBLE]
