>>Clare Balding: Ran, did you identify with
that statement from Dean, that the bit that
he enjoys most is the pain?
>>Ranulph Fiennes: Yeah.
I mean, if it's all white ahead for the next
1800 and you've already got crotch rot and
gangrene and you're beginning to think, because
nobody's done it before -- rather like what
you were saying, Steve -- maybe you can't
do it.
Maybe humans can't actually tow that sort
of weight for that far on that number of calories.
And we could only carry 5,000 and we were
using 8 1/2 thousand every day, sort of thing.
So it was on the thing.
And I was -- you were talking about faith.
I was just brought up in South Africa with
a sort of vague normal faith, but not enough
to deal with gangrene and crotch rot.
So you have to develop something else.
And I sort of think, "Well, my dad and my
granddad" -- not that I ever met them, but
I was brought on stories about them -- "are
watching me and I don't want to do something
to let them down so I don't want to be the
one who gives up, but I do want to give up."
Therefore, in the tent every night, you're
watching the other bloke hoping he's broken
his leg or something.
[ Laughter ]
>>Clare Balding: So it will be him, not me?
And I see a lot of athletes sort of keep that
thought in their head: "He's hurting more
than I am."
>>Steve Redgrave: Certainly.
Very different situation.
I didn't like pain very much, and that's why
I only did races that lasted 6 minutes and
not a few years.
And yet when you're in that competition and
you think you're favorites and you're side
by side or, in fact, may be down on the opposition,
you're thinking, "Well, if we're favorites,
that must be hurting them more than it's hurting
us, so if we can keep the pressure on them,
they're going to falter."
They might.
They might not.
You don't know.
But that's the mental process you have to
go through.
As soon as you think you're beaten, you are
beaten.
It's as simple as that.
So even if they are better than you, and performing
better than you, you've still got to believe
that you're in the race all the way through,
and if they're leaving, it's got to be hurting
them a helluva lot more than it's hurting
me.
And you use different elements around you.
So being in a race that has six groups and
you're one of them, there's five other people.
Somebody may be out in the lead.
You're using somebody else to keep you in
the race at that time.
>>Clare Balding: And I suppose actually, you
know, for three of you, endurance and stamina
is the key.
John, for you, yes, there is an element of
endurance but you're thinking tactically all
the time.
You're trying to read the opposition.
You're trying to outwit them in real time
and react against them?
>>John Eales: Yeah.
That's a really important component for us,
and I think, you know, being from Australia
with the rugby, we always thought rugby is
not the main sport in Australia.
Like we have four main football clubs, and
rugby on different measures sits third or
fourth on that, so it's -- you know, we're
reasonably a boutique sport in Australia.
So we didn't necessarily have the pick of
the best athletes in rugby, but what we -- what
we found is that we were competing against
guys like the All Blacks, who are usually
the best in the world, or the Springboks,
who are the, you know, toughest in the world
in many respects, or the French and all those
teams.
We thought "We're probably not going to -- we'll
work as hard as we can to be as good as we
can, but we're probably not going to be the
fastest, we're probably not going to be the
strongest in many respects but we'll be as
strong as we can."
But we -- in that case, we have to be the
smartest, and so tactics were really important
for us.
Like we considered ourselves -- sounds probably
strange, talking about rugby -- but a cerebral
team.
It was so important that we chose our tactics
and were very specific for them against each
opposition and were able to change tactics,
you know, in the middle of a half, not sit
back till halftime and chat with the coach
and get some feedback.
It was about changing them on the run.
>>Clare Balding: Dean, you talked about the
percentage that was body and the percentage
that was mind.
Training your body is one thing and you can
probably write, you know, very clear manuals
of how people, if they wanted to, could follow
that program.
But how do you train your mind for the length
of time that you're having to concentrate?
>>Dean Karnazes: It's discipline.
A lot of it comes down to discipline.
A lot of it comes down to pushing yourself
to failure and seeing where that edge is and
stepping over the edge.
I think we're so trained to avoid failure
that, you know, failure can -- is failure,
is permanent.
And to me, I embrace failure.
I celebrate it.
I've had some spectacular failures.
[ Laughter ]
>>Dean Karnazes: And I've certainly learned
a lot more from my failures than any victory.
I mean, in victory it's celebratory and you're
kind of caught up in the moment.
In failure, there's all sorts of analysis
going on.
You know, you're looking at precisely where
did this break down or how could I have gone
further.
And so I think not being afraid to fail is
certainly a key element that -- that I actually
say, you know, fail -- fail wonderfully.
>>Clare Balding: Which is interesting, because
I know that one of the free classes that Google
offers its employees, its team, is absolutely
addressing that and how do we create a culture
in which we can accept failure without obviously
inviting it in.
And John, it's a point particularly in a team,
and you talked about it, about, you know,
being able to look at each other honestly
afterwards and actually saying, "Right.
Let's together move on from this."
>>John Eales: Well, I think it's about being
willing to fail little, but often, and learning
from those mistakes as you go along, and being
able to embrace it and embrace the learnings
as you go through them.
>>Clare Balding: How much of a challenge,
Steve and John, have you found it adapting
to life post-sport in the terms that sport
kind of dictates your timetable so strictly,
that finding new challenges for yourself and
actually breaking into worlds that you may
have found a little nerve-racking to start
with, how have you found it?
>>Steve Redgrave: People said to me "You're
going to find it very difficult to retire."
I competed at the highest level for just over
20 years.
But it was the easiest thing I ever did.
The problem is, there was no money in my sport,
so I had to stop playing and then find a mechanism
of making money from that point of view.
But then you have to -- I find that I have
to put challenges.
I like exercise.
I like to try and keep fit.
But if there's no end goal, I find myself
not doing it.
So I have to set myself a challenge of some
sort to be able to get there and do it.
>>Clare Balding: And you do that to yourself.
It's not Ann, your wife, in the way that Ranulph's
wife --
>>Steve Redgrave: No.
Her views have changed a great deal.
When I first stopped, she said she wanted
me to stop, and after a few months, she was
very happy if I went to go for the first 10
Olympics after that to keep me out of the
house.
[ Laughter ]
>>Clare Balding: John, how have you found
adapting?
>>John Eales: I've loved it.
When I got to the end, like I just wanted
to do something else.
I think you start to rationalize it a little
bit, what you're doing, and it's probably
time to leave rugby, if you have time to rationalize
too much what you're doing.
But an Irishman once said to me, he said,
you know, "The most important thing in life
is you've got to love what you do, not what
you did."
And to me, that just resonated so clearly.
It's about living in the present for the future.
And so, you know, another great mate of mine,
you know, always said that you retire to something,
not from something.
And I think those bits of advice are really
important.
>>Clare Balding: So plotting the next challenge
is absolutely crucial to all of you, and Ranulph,
you touched on it briefly, the next challenge
for you will be?
>>Ranulph Fiennes: Yeah.
The doctor might start having weird ideas.
He heard three years ago that the biggest
polar expedition of all time, crossing Antarctica
during the polar winter, total darkness, you're
not allowed to by your government.
You won't get a permit.
Because there is no rescue facility for 4,000
miles.
And the average temperature is minus 73 degrees
Centigrade and lung tissue starts being damaged
around about minus 60, something like that.
So we started work on that three years ago.
We needed 5.2 million pounds, and we're just
-- I've got a big meeting this afternoon to
try and get another million out of someone.
[ Laughter ]
>>Ranulph Fiennes: Yeah.
So it goes on.
And as long as the records haven't all been
broken, and as long as we're ahead of the
Norwegians --
[ Laughter ]
>>Clare Balding: Which actually brings me
to a point.
That rivalry can be -- if you approach it
in the right way, can be extremely important,
and sometimes anger can be useful.
And I'm not saying that you're angry with
the Norwegians.
Not at all.
But the rivalry is very important to you.
>>Ranulph Fiennes: Yeah.
I mean, there are nasty tricks sort of thing
and I don't want to be vulgar but in about
the 1970s we were breaking the world record
with a guy called Charlie Burton to the North
Pole, and the Bergens Tidende in Norway came
up with this article saying "The Brits have
just beaten the world's record but all our
boys are catching them up."
And the guy -- the leader at that time, Ragnoff
Fortskat (phonetic), and Charlie, who was
captain of the rugby -- Army rugby for a long
time, my mate, said, "Fortskat?
Can't pronounce that.
We'll call him foreskin."
And so I think the Norwegians heard this and
Bergens Tidende, the newspaper, it said a
bit later than that, "But the Brits are carrying
a prostitute on their sled."
[ Laughter ]
>>Ranulph Fiennes: Which, you know, we didn't
even -- we didn't even have a toothbrush because
it weighed too much.
[ Laughter ]
>>Ranulph Fiennes: You know, and at minus
40, certain things are not practical anyway
so...
[ Laughter ]
>>Ranulph Fiennes: But the point was, Mr.
Jameson of the News of the World reported
that from the Norwegian papers into the British
newspapers.
We lost three major sponsors as a result of
that.
So us and the Norwegians ever since have not
been, you know, the best of pals.
>>Clare Balding: They spur you on, though.
Steve, what was your attitude to rival teams?
>>Steve Redgrave: That you need rival teams
because that's what pushes you through the
boundaries in some ways.
It's hard pushing yourself.
So if there are other people out there that
are also pushing the limits of being able
to do that, but you've got to be really in
control of what you're doing.
And if you're a sport psychologist, it's control
the controllables.
It's good to have opposition out there.
But when it actually came to racing, I wouldn't
be over-friendly with the opposition that
I was racing but I wouldn't be -- upset them
either.
If you upset them, they go out and try harder
to beat you.
So sort of middle of the road in some respects.
Don't give them the excuse to pull harder
to, to train harder, to try and beat you.
Be very neutral from that point of view.
But in here, hate them.
[ Laughter ]
>>Clare Balding: John, you were always very
composed.
Or you seemed to be.
And you didn't really go for riling the opposition.
Everybody loved you.
You know, I mean, it's an extraordinary position
to be in, with rival teams, actually.
>>John Eales: Yeah.
It probably had a bit to do with what Steve
said there.
There, you know, I think we were desperately
competitive in everything that we did, and
that -- you know, it did -- it was a very
intense feeling.
But, you know, the challenge was more to concentrate
on what you could do and how you could make
a difference rather than on them, because
if you become too obsessed by them, you can
lose the focus for yourselves.
>>Clare Balding: Quick conversation about
sleep, because particularly with what you
did with running the 350 miles, you didn't
sleep for how long?
>>Dean Karnazes: Well, it was three days.
And I can't -- I've got to preface that by
saying, you know, in all honesty, I actually
woke up in the middle of the road and -- running,
and I thought, "I know better than this.
There's trucks in the road," you know.
So I kind of meandered back over to the shoulder.
And then it happened again and I realized
I was sleep running.
I was falling asleep and just willing my body
to keep going.
And I felt kind of rejuvenated when I woke
up the second time, and I --
[ Laughter ]
>>Clare Balding: Wow, this is a very good
new skill.
>>Dean Karnazes: -- thought, "The truck didn't
take me out."
Yeah, I was good.
Yeah.
[ Laughter ]
>>Clare Balding: But in an ideal world, how
much do you sleep and in what sort of sections?
Do you sleep in the middle of the day or just
at night?
>>Dean Karnazes: Yeah.
Actually -- and this is a sore subject, because
my wife is here, but I sleep about four or
five hours a night and she likes to sleep
10.
Or 12 is even better.
So I'm up constantly.
I -- you know, it's kind of counterintuitive.
You think athletes have to sleep a lot.
And I've found just the opposite.
I sleep less and less, the more aerobically
fit I've become.
Yeah, so four or five hours seems to recharge
the batteries and off to the next run.
>>Clare Balding: John, what about you?
>>John Eales: This is loosely related to sleep.
We had a -- moved into a base camp in (saying
name).
We decided to do things a bit differently,
to have a set camp instead of moving around
from hotel to hotel when we were playing test
matches.
We had one basic camp and then we would fly
out from there to play all the games.
And the big difference was that when we did
this, all our families could come and stay
with us.
You know, our wives, our girlfriends, or being
rugby players, we only had one or the other.
Some sports it's a bit different than that.
[ Laughter ]
>>John Eales: But wives and girlfriends and
kids, if we had them, could all stay there.
And it was funny.
When we started -- first started doing this,
the press would always be looking for a different
angle and they said, "You know, what's the
team's policy on sex, you know, before a game?
Might that distract the team?"
And the best response I ever heard to that
was from a U.S. coach.
I think his name was Bum Phillips.
What was he, coach of the Houston Oilers?
Someone would know more than I would.
But his response was, "Look, it's not sex,
you know, before the game that concerns me;
it's the players staying up all night trying
to get it.
That's the big issue."
[ Laughter ]
>>John Eales: I think he was talking about
the married guys on the team, not the single
guys on the team.
[ Laughter ]
>>John Eales: Anyway, I mean, sleep is a very
important part of -- I think one of the big
differences in sport and business is in sport,
obviously the main focus is your body, and
in business the main focus is your mind, but
the reality is that people who perform the
best are the ones who get that balance right.
You're never going to get the balance right
all the time.
There's going to be patches where you can't
sleep very well or you -- you are so busy
or whatever, there's things going through
your mind, but I think on balance, like if
you look over a one-year period, rather than
a one-week or one-month period, you need to
make sure you're getting all those elements
in.
>>Clare Balding: Have you found, Steve, a
happy balance now, with -- with sleep and
exercise and mental stimulation?
>>Steve Redgrave: I probably sleep more now
than I used to when I was an athlete.
But yeah, at the beginning of my career, as
John says, sleep was very important, the recovery
from that sort of process.
And one of my heroes within the sport of rowing,
a guy called Tim Crooks who had retired a
few years before and I was just coming onto
the team, I raced him at a local regatta,
and I was really scared about racing him even
though he had been retired for five years,
but he was still clearly a legend in this
country and I didn't sleep a wink during that
night.
And I went out and raced him and beat him
very easily.
Two weeks later, I raced him at an annual
regatta, thinking that there's no problem
here, I beat him very easily, and we had an
epic race that's pretty legendary now.
Fortunately, I still won, but it was -- it
was very, very close from that point of view.
And from that point, I thought, well, sleep's
important.
The human body is amazing.
What these guys have done on the end has sort
of proved that.
But it's the fact of state of mind.
It's actually the preparation, in some ways,
of what you think.
If everything is in order exactly of how you
want it to be, is it -- it doesn't always
mean that you'll get that performance.
You need that little bit of edge in some ways.
So actually, if I didn't have a very good's
sleep or training hasn't gone that well in
the last few weeks or in the last session
before whatever you're doing, going into that
competition, having that edge is that you
know you're not quite at your absolute perfect.
It normally brings out a better performance.
When everything goes to plan, there's normally
something that comes and kicks you in the
teeth at that point.
>>Clare Balding: And on that point, we will
leave it for now.
Thank you all very much very much, indeed.
Sir Ranulph, Fiennes, Sir Steve Redgrave,
John Eales, and Dean Karnazes.
[ Applause ]
