I can't ignore that these nonhierarchical
people who often are married or have a girlfriend
that they've had for years, like they have
hierarchy.
[Music]
Hey guys, it's Kat and it's time for another episode of True tea!
Now, first of all, obviously
we are in a bit of a different situation.
This is the current setup, um, that I've been
using for the video essay that I'm working
on about the rebranding of white supremacy
on social media and in America and in the
world at large. Um, and so I just was too
lazy to reset things up. So I just thought
that I would shoot like this. So I know I've
gotten a couple of different complaints from
people who don't like me standing and talking.
I love to stand and talk. I actually feel
like I talk better when I stand and talk.
So don't be, you know, put off by the amount
of times I fidget. But you know, I'm open
to criticism and if you guys like this, let
me know.
I like the two camera set up. I'm a fan of
it, you know, but I'm open to critique, you
know, I'm a Virgo. I'm very headstrong and
it does occasionally take me a bit of time
to accept change and um, ideas that are not
my own. So some church announcements before
we jump into this video, I'm going to be speaking
at Ucla on the 15th. Hopefully you guys can
come. I do believe that it's open to the public.
I don't have that information right now, but
I'm really excited to come to UCLA and talk
to you guys. This will be the second time
I have done a talk in Los Angeles, so hopefully
you guys can make it. I will also be at vidcon
doing a fan meetup. So for those of you guys
who are going to Vidcon, you know, make sure
to keep your eyes open for that. And also
if you're not going to Vidcon, you totally
should be going to vidcon. Um, I would really
appreciate, you know, all of the love and
support at the con because it's usually really
hectic and I always love hearing from people
who have been touched by the work that I do.
So yeah. Anyway, we're going to be having
a really interesting conversation. Um, and
so as per usual, I highly suggest that you
go to your kitchen and get yourself some tea.
I am drinking some s what does this, citrus,
lavender tea, by Teavanna.
It is so hot that I just really needed something
cool and lavender, citrusy. It is just getting
warmer. I just, I need to ingest fresh things.
And so I love this tea. So let me take another
sip before you jump into this very upsetting
conversation I suppose.
All right, so this was a bit of a viewer request
because in my video that I made about my,
how polyamory has made me insecure, I, I referenced
nonhierarchical polyamory and I said that
it's a bunch of bullshit. Now I will edit
that um, what I said there because I don't
think it's a bunch of bull shit really. I
mean both of my partners currently are nonhierarchical
um, but they're in very specific situations
which I'll get to, you know, in the past.
So I want to say first and foremost that,
you know, if you are someone who is nonhierarchical
and you were hurt by that, I really do apologize
genuinely from the bottom of my heart. Um,
because I don't want to hurt anyone. I don't
want to upset anyone. I've got my perspectives
as the person who frequently is left out of
relationships. So that's kind of where I come
from.
But I want to say regardless of what I say
in this video, I think that, you know, people,
self identity is really important and people's
ability to, you know, really reinforce how
they feel and what their personal perspective
is. I do believe that's important. Even if
I in this conversation have some qualms with
it. So this is going to be another one of
those conversations where you guys are going
to come forward and drag me. But that's what
true tea is all about. Learning, sharing,
and growing as a community so that we can,
you know, each learn from each other and you
guys always teach me so much. So I am nervous
but quite excited. Um, about the comments.
Oh. And by the way, I will be pinning every,
every video. I will be pinning my favorite
comments. So please leave, you know, a good
comment.
I'm really only interested in people that
want to have a conversation. Um, I'm not going
to approve troll comments. I'm not going to
approve shitty comments. I, I'm totally fine
with approving people that disagree with me
or disagree with everything I stand for as
long as you can be respectful, which most
of you can't. So, but, um, I am reading all
the comments and I am approving and denying
and all that stuff. So, yeah. Um, all right.
So let's talk about nonhierarchical polyamory.
Now. I know that what I'm about to say is
going to sound really bitchy. I know it's
gonna and I know that a lot of you guys are
not going to hear it correctly. Maybe some
of you will. Maybe some you will. I don't
know. I can't control you. You know, I, I
don't know, but um.... So a lot of things
have been, um, my eyes have been opened up
a lot when I moved to Los Angeles.
You know, when I was in Orange County talking
about really a lot of stuff. There were so
many things that were ideas in my head, but
I wasn't really part of a community. I wasn't
really part of a scene and I had opinions
about stuff, but I didn't really know, you
know what I mean? Um, and so there's been
a lot of awakening that's happened for me
since moving to Los Angeles because kind of
the, across the board realization I'm having
is that a lot of people say one thing and
do a completely other thing. Now I am a very
practical person. Like I said, I'm a Virgo,
you know, like I, you know, on one hand like
to dream, I like to be optimistic and I like
to be very, you know, well, maybe one day,
but the truth of the matter is, is I'm a very
practical person who likes to believe in tangible
things.
And you know, when it comes to nonhierarchical
polyamory, um, I feel like what people say
and what they do frequently is very, very
different. Now, for those of you guys who
probably are not so up to date with what we're
talking about here, um, I've heard people
describe their nonhierarchical polyamory really
with two phrases, which is one being not hierarchical,
polyamory, the other being relationship anarchist.
Now full disclosure, I, um, as you guys should
know by now, I have a podcast called JSYK
where interview people about the misconceptions
about their lifestyles and identities. And
I did interview Jase LIndgren of Multiamory
about Relationship Anarchy. Um, and you know,
it was a really interesting conversation because
honestly I, in that V in that video expressed
sort of mine, I guess confusion and frustration
around people who id is not hire her cold.
Right? So when I interviewed him, he got one
definition of relationship anarchy, which
is not one that I had heard before.
Um, most people that I know who identify as
relationship anarchist, they, um, they identify
as relationship anarchist as an extension
of their political views. You know, relationship
Anarchy is not just about, you know, them.
Ahm, you know, wanting to do whatever. It's
a reflection of their inherent distaste for
hierarchy in any space. No God's no masters,
they had a whole video about Anarchism. And
if you guys don't know what ad are key is
as a political idea. Um, so yeah, that's usually
what it is. And so it's kind of this idea
of not really having anyone in your life that
sort of rules or controls you so to speak.
Right? Jase's um, definition was basically
seeing your friendships and you know, like
seeing all relationships all as the same or
similar, right? Not really prioritizing one
over the other, you know, sort of friend is,
you know, not no more or less important than,
you know, a partner, so to speak. You know,
so it's kind of that idea. Right? Now...
A thing that I've ran into out here, and I
know this is gonna sound really mean, what
I've recognized is I think my practicality
is an extension of the numerous marginalizations
that I embody. You know? Um, I do not have,
I believe the same ability to, I guess you
can say suspend my disbelief as a lot of people
in the poly community, the community tends
to be very, very white. It tends to be very,
very upper middle class and people who engage
in it tend to be pretty privileged. Myself
included. Um, you know, there is, I believe,
some degree of privilege that comes with even
maintaining the idea that you could maintain
more than one partner. Right? And so oftentimes
I will run into, you know, a lot of this stuff
that I discussed in my insecurity video where
you've got these people who, you know, you
know, uh, the isms and things that exist in
the Monogamy world,
still very much exists in the polyamory world.
Right? Um, and just overall, I mean, obviously
for the most part, for the most part, there
is, believe it or not, a very conservative
aspect to some polyamorous circles, but, um,
it is a lot of very progressive people. It's
a lot of people who have fanciful thinking.
There's a very large intersection with people
who believe in eastern medicine and practice
that sort of thing and yoga and things. I've
seen so many damn invitations to poly yoga
and things like that. Yeah. Like it's like,
so there's, it's very that, right. And you
know, I'm an atheist, you know, I'm very,
if it's not tangible, I don't believe in it,
truly. I mean certain things. Sure. But most
things, no. Um, you know, so I don't really
connect with that side of it. And to be completely
honest, and I know this is going to say again
some really bitchy, I do feel like a lot of
the nonhierarchical polyamory stuff is kind
of a reflection of that sort of thing.
I don't know if that made, it made a lot of
sense. There's a lot of people who sit around,
they've got these fun words, they say they've
got, you know, everyone's a poly expert. You
know, in the poly community, you will meet
so many people who are speakers and this and
this and that. You know, I talk about polyamory,
but I'm not going to pretend that. I am anyone's
expert or you know, I should be writing anything
about it. True. I mean, I do, but not saying
I should. Um, but you know, basically what
I'm saying is you've got a lot of people who
have like these big words and these ideas
and they are beautiful concepts. They are
beautiful on their own. But I feel like what
actually happens is not consistent right now.
I'll give you guys an example. Right? Um,
when I first went to Los Angeles, there was
this guy who I reconnected with who I matched
with on Okcupid like years ago was like, although
it could keep it page, I used to, I used to
talk pretty much in depth about how I really
want it to go to this one industrial club.
Right? And he was, you know, a goth guy went
to an industrial clubs and things like that.
And he connected with me and he was like,
Hey, you know, I would love to show you around
some time. Right. I'd love to take you. And
so when I moved out here, we started sort
of seeing each other. And he is a relationship
anarchist now. He is also politically an anarchist,
you know, so that's sort of, he is, he comes
from that side where his anarchism is an extension
of his political beliefs. Right. Um, and so
he's a relationship anarchist, but he has
a partner who can we call a nesting partner
who he lives with. Um, and we, we were seeing
each other for a bit and it was mostly pretty
good. We were never, we were intimate in some
ways, but we never like actually had sex.
Um, but you know, every time we'd hang out
with each other, Iwould look over at his phone
and he would have like 70 miss text messages
from his partner. And I knew it was from his
partner because on, um, we both have androids
and we both use Facebook to text. And when
you use Facebook, the text, you see that little
bubble that has like the number next to it
that gets all, you know, the notifications
and things like that. He, it would literally
be dozens upon dozens, like every time we
hung out every single time, and through his
time spending time with me, it became really
clear that he was in so many ways neglecting
his nesting partner or, or not necessarily
neglecting her, but that she wasn't really
comfortable with this. I mean, there was a
big question about whether or not she was
polyamorous at all, which is very common.
I have dated way too many men who they present
polyamory to their partner. Their partner
is like, yeah, I'm totally fine with this,
but they're not. And then you're sitting across
from them on a date and they're sending a
million text messages saying, oh my gosh,
you know, what are you getting home? What
are you doing? Yeah. I've had a lot of experiences
like that. Um, and they're not fun. Right.
So long story short, while we both immensely
enjoyed each other, while we were both very,
very attracted to each other, ultimately,
um, he, he decided that we needed to stop
seeing each other in that capacity because
he needs to really focus on the person that
he loves, you know? Um, and that was just
him being real with himself really is this
kind of recognizing that he loves this woman
and he's going to lose her if he keeps doing
this poly thing.
Really. Um, you know, and I've talked to him
several times about it and I was, I that's
like, you know, are you, cause there's an
issue that I always run into with men, right?
Um, and I can only speak about men cause I
don't date women. Um, I met a lot of men who
are polyamorous, right? That is who they are.
That is a very central part of their being.
They very much enjoy that, that aspect of
themselves. And that is who, that's where
they live. Right? And they meet these women
who are not comfortable with polyamory and
ultimately they choose to be very monogamous
with them while still being very poly. Now
you guys have to keep in mind, I got out of
my last relationship for a lot of reasons,
but one of the big ones was that I recognized
that I was polyamorous and that that was something
that like ruined him.
Right? Um, and so I couldn't imagine being
in a relationship with somebody, well I could
I guess, um, who is not Poly and saying, you
know, I'm going to go do what I'm going to
do. And that's just that while they sit at
home upset and you know, realistically, um,
you know, that is a very common thing. I mean,
insecurities, you know, within couples and
things like that, that's very, very common.
But I personally have made the decision to
live my life in the most authentic way possible.
And I refuse to be in a relationship with
somebody who does not want to embrace all
aspects of me including my polyamory. But
I discovered that men are willing to, for
you know, forgo their own desires in order
to secure a relationship, a monogamous relationship
with a woman. Um, because a lot of women will
say, you know, either you have me or no one
else, you can't have both.
You know, and these guys, a lot of times they're
lonely and things like that and they want
to secure that person. Um, and that's been
very frustrating for me because I'm dating
you. I want to get along with your partner,
but I don't like how frequently the people
I've dated in general, but also especially
the non hierarchical people have this relationship
where the girl that they're dating can decide
that they who, if, if they're going to date
or not date. Now for me, you know, so this,
so here's how I feel about relationship anarchy.
Um, we're not really relationship as not hierarchical,
I guess. You know, nonhierarchical polyamory.
I think the people who id as non hierarchical,
truly to themselves feel that that's what
what it is. I do. That's what it is. You know.
Um, I, I don't doubt that that's how they
feel.
I don't doubt that that is exactly what their
perspective of it is. But speaking as the
person who very frequently because of, you
know, levels of desirability or whatever gets
into these relationships with these men who
are non hierarchical who say that they're
really into me and they want to keep seeing
me and this isn't that who stopped seeing
me because of their partners. Realistically
you're not this nonhierarchical person. Now,
I mentioned that like both of my, um, both
of my partners are nonhierarchical and I believe
that they can do that because both of them
are older men who have been married several
times frequently. Um, and they both have been
through that nesting partner thing. They have
experienced, you know, in one person's case,
raising children and things, you know, and
they don't want that anymore. They don't want
that.
They want to be able to have the relationships
with the people that they see and have those
be their relationships. They don't want a
primary, they don't want a main anything.
They want to be able to see people enjoy their
time and that is where they're at, you know?
Um, and so I know that I can date them and
I can, you know, date them without worrying
about the influence of their partners because
they're not at that point where they're with
people who, you know, they can do that with.
I don't, I have not yet met a person who self
identifies as a relationship anarchist or,
or a nonhierarchical person who has a partner
who they nest with, how's it partner who they
spend a lot of time with, etc, who doesn't
at some point become uncomfortable with the
fact that they're just kind of doing whatever,
you know, and, you know, relationship hierarchy...
eh Anarchy Is one of those weird things too,
where to be honest, like I bet very few people
who id is relationship anarchists Who I think
are not total assholes, you know, not all,
not across the board. It's not a general,
I'm not generalizing, but I have probably
met two people in my life who are relationship
anarchists and that's not a code word for
them. Doing whatever they want without giving
a f*** about anyone else. You know, I mean,
in a lot of relationship anarchy and non hierarchal,
poly is kind of about that question of how
much do I have responsibility for someone
else's emotions. Right. Um, and I've divided
about that because on one hand I feel, you
know, if you're with me and you're uncomfortable
with me being with another person, then this
isn't working, you know, um, you know, but
at the end, but at the same time, I think
it's not unrealistic or uncommon for people
to go through those feelings.
You know, like, my thing is this, I think
that, like I said, there's a lot of people
who say, okay, I, I am nonhierarchical and
they feel that way and I'm sure they think
they're conducting themselves that way. But,
you know, I don't, I don't, I'm not, like
I said, I'm the person who people go on it.
I mean, let me, let me, before we get into
this, I have a fun dating life. I have a date
tonight. I do have positive dating experiences.
I know complain a lot, but it's not all bad.
Right. Um, but what I'm saying is, you know,
it's very common for me to meet these men
who they do enjoy me, that you want spend
time with me, but I'm the person who they
spend time with when all other options have
been exhausted or no one's available. Do you
know what I mean?
Um, it's for some people, not all. Um, and
obviously I'm in that space right now where
I don't want a primary, so I'm not really
pushing anyone to do anything truly. Um, and
so I, um, I don't, it doesn't really bother
me as much. Right. But I can't ignore that
these nonhierarchical people who often are
married or have a girlfriend that they've
had for years, like they have hierarchy. You
have people who you default to spending time
with all the time. You have a person in some
cases who do you have children with, who you've
got legal responsibilities to, you know, who
is going to always take precedent over the
new girl that you met on Okcupid. And that's
okay. It's okay to, it's totally okay for
you to have people in your life who you prefer
over others. Like, I think sometimes in the
poly community, like it's very common to meet
people who feel like they're just so much
more evolved than you are, and to be honest,
I do think that sometimes that non hiarch--
hierarchical stuff comes from that. That bit
of like, oh, but like I'm
more evolved than that. You know what I mean?
Like where they, they're, they're basically
communicating that, you know, I guess that's
how you feel. If you were really woke, like
I was, you wouldn't have hierarchy or preference
for anything that'll put, that's very realistic.
I really don't. I think that it's very normal
for higher agree to exist and I'm kinda tired
of people who do functionally have a hierarchy
pretending that they don't have one or minimizing
the fact that they've got a f**** hierarchy.
I mean it's just frustrating because, you
know, I don't like, I mean, I guess maybe
this is the overarching theme in these videos.
I don't like the feeling of, you know, there's
this person who I really, really like and
you're great and I want to spend time with
you. But then like I have this guy who I've
been talking to for a while, like years at
this point and who you know, him and I were
supposed to hang out.
He's a relationship anarchist and Dah, Dah,
Dah. And we still haven't hung out. We see
each other at events all the time. We see
each other at events all the time. It's gotten
to the point where I'm like, okay, yeah, sure
we're going to hang...like, I don't care anymore,
you know? But you know, he is. Every moment
we, I post a new picture or you know, he sees
me in his feet or whatever. He's like, Oh
hey, hi, hi. And I'm like, well you haven't
made time for me. And then you go to his Instagram
and you've got, you know, all these photos
with these different girls. You know, oftentimes
the same- it's fine to have hierarchy. It's
totally fine to prefer other people over.
Others, I just want people to be real with
themselves. I just want people to be honest.
I know that it sounds noble to be like, Oh,
I'm a relationship anarchist or I'm a ...a
I have a non hierarchal relationship, but
it's okay. It's okay to actually really enjoy
spending most of your time with specific person.
Now I know this is gonna be one of those videos
where y'all dragged me and y'all tell me that
I'm wrong and things like that and I'm welcome
to it. But I, I'm so sorry. Like I just haven't
really, with exception of my two partners
who again have their own solo poly experience
and things like that, I don't really know
how practical non hierarchy hierarchy, hierarchical,
sorry, non hierarchical relationships are,
I don't think it's that bad. Right.
Ugh,I needed that! Anyway. That is what I
have to say. Say so let me know what your
True Tea is in the comment box below. I do
like hearing your guys' has input, your opinions,
your perspectives. Like I said, I will be
pending my favorite comment even if it's one
that disagrees with me, even if it's one that
corrects me, I'm totally open to being corrected.
So, yeah. On that note, I guess I will talk
to you guys later! Um... If you're not already
subscribed to help, you will subscribe and,
you know, stick around. We've got more videos
on this channel. We like to, you know, have
a good old time here. So yeah, just click
on these other videos and stick with me and
you'll go far, kid. Bye.
