- [Announcer] This episode of, StarTalk,
is brought to you by, CuriosityStream.
(upbeat music)
- This is, StarTalk, and I'm your host,
Neil deGrasse Tyson, your
personal astrophysicist
and today this is a StarTalk
devoted to the, "First Man".
- [Chuck] Adam?
- No, (laughing).
That was, Chuck Nice, my co-host
of the, "First Man"--
- Sorry.
- Special edition of StarTalk.
We're of course talking
about Neil Armstrong
and his first steps on the Moon.
And we're not gonna do that
unless we bring in
an astronaut.
- Wow.
- Ain't it cool I got, on my Rolodex,
I got some astronauts.
- Wow.
- And one of my favorites,
actually he is my favorite,
but I don't wanna
tell anybody.
- Ah, that's nice.
(laughing)
Thank you.
- Mike Massimino, Mike.
- Neil.
- Dude, thanks for coming.
- Chuck,
thanks for having me I'm so glad
I could join you.
- Just on short notice.
We saw each other just
the other night--
- Yeah.
- Both we saw preview screening
of the film, "First Man",
all about Neil Armstrong.
And I realize it's not
about Neil Armstrong,
it is Neil Armstrong's view.
- Yeah.
- Right, it's his point of view
of the whole--
- It's who he was, yeah.
- Who he was.
- Cool.
- They captured his
personality, what he was about,
the way he approached
his work.
- Yeah.
- It was, I thought it was fantastic.
- Well, let me finish introducing you.
So you're a former
NASA astronaut.
- Yes.
- You're a mechanical engineer.
You're a professor at Columbia University
and you're a Senior Space Advisor
to the Intrepid Sea, Air & Space Museum.
- Thank you for mentioning
all those things,
yes, it's correct.
- And you're a wife,
I mean, you're a
husband and dad.
- Yes, correct.
- The wife, that the operation is later.
- Yeah, he's a wife on Tuesdays.
(laughing)
- So, no, but just thanks for making time
to come in for this.
- I'm really thrilled
to be here.
- Yeah.
- It's always good to see you guys
especially to talk about my
boyhood hero, Neil Armstrong.
- So did you guys know Neil Armstrong?
- Can I finish
introducing him?
- Oh, you're still
on his introduction?
- I'm sorry.
- Holy moly.
- You're the adventure
of two space flights, STS,
which is NASA code for,
Space Transportation System.
- Correct.
- Oh cool, it absolutely makes sense.
- Does it?
(laughing)
- I believe it's called
a shuttle.
- Shuttle,
Shuttle Mission 109 in 2002,
and 125, that was a good one, in May 2009,
the last servicing mission
of the Hubble Telescope,
giving it life into the 2010s.
- That's right.
- And you had four
space walks.
- Yep.
- And you're the, okay,
he's a first man
unto himself.
- Yes he is.
- The first man to?
- Tweet from space.
- Oh!
- Nice.
- Take that Neil Armstrong.
- Yeah.
- Okay, so Neil Armstrong said,
"one small step for man,
one giant leap for mankind."
What were your first Tweet from space?
- Yeah, that's the problem.
Now there's a Neil Armstrong story here,
related to it.
- Okay, go.
- I don't know if we wanna
go there yet.
- Go, go there, go, go.
- Yes.
- The very first time
Neil Armstrong came to
speak to my astronaut class,
we were there for a total
of four days.
- So you're still like
an astronaut cadet?
- We're no,
yeah, we were just getting like
he was there--
- Total newbies.
- He happened to be in
town for his physical.
Our training manager
reached out--
- In Houston?
- To him, in Houston, right,
at the Johnson Space Center,
all new astronauts.
And she asked him, Paige
Mulstry was her name,
she asked, she got a
message over to the clinic,
would he come speak to us?
And he said he would, but
he only wanted to speak
to the new astronauts.
So he came over and
talked to us mainly about
flying in the X-15 and
we asked him question
but the way--
- The X-15,
the test plane from NASA
based on a military,
I mean it's a--
- It's a rocket plane.
- A super, it's a rocket plane,
a supersonic--
- It's amazing, yeah.
- Rocket plane.
- Yeah,
and it was one of the more, I don't know,
maybe the most successful
experimental aircraft ever built.
It went like Mach 7, a couple
of those guys--
- Seven times
the speed of sound?
- Yeah,
and a couple of those guys earned their
astronaut wings.
- For having the...
- With altitude, yeah, that's how high
this airplane could go.
It could get you to what,
I know space is an arbitrary boundary,
that's another story,
but they were able to earn astronaut wings
in that aircraft.
- Earth itself
is in space.
- Yes, yes,
that's super, that's a whole,
that's another show.
- Yes, (voice covers voice).
- I hate to bring this
up because then you'll,
we'll have a whole another show
going here.
- Right, right.
- About the boundary of space,
but an amazing aircraft.
He talked about that and other things
and we got to meet him and talk to him.
But they day after we were at a,
it was like a luncheon going on
'cause there was a reunion as well
as him coming in for his physical.
And I ended up next to
him on the food line,
you know, making a sandwich.
- Damn, even Neil Armstrong
had to go in the chow line.
- Wow.
- He has to eat.
- Man, that's cold.
- That doesn't even
seem right.
- That's not,
that's wrong.
- You know what I mean.
- It wasn't bad food though,
even though it was
government food it wasn't.
Anyway, so he's next to
me and I said to myself,
I have to say something to this guy,
'cause I'm next to him,
I don't know how it happened,
but serendipitously.
And I asked him, when did
you think of that first thing
that you said on the Moon,
the one small step for man?
I go, did your wife tell ya,
did you get a publicist that, who,
how'd you come up with this?
And he turned to me and he says,
well, like I thought about
it only after we landed
because if we didn't land I
wouldn't have to say anything,
it wouldn't make a difference,
and so he concentrated
only on the landing.
- Saved his brain energy.
- Well, he.
- Yeah.
- But I think what he was,
the message he was trying to
get to me as a new astronaut,
well, I don't know if he was trying,
but the message I took was,
you take care of business first
and you worry about--
- Worry about.
- The other stuff later.
- Right.
- So his focus was landing on the Moon.
So, for my Tweet I did the same approach.
I said, I'm not gonna worry
about this first Tweet.
(laughing)
We have to launch into space,
we have to get there alive
and successfully--
- I gotta job to do.
- Big mistake is right.
- This sounds like a mistake.
- This was a mistake.
- Story.
- So I get there and it's,
all right we're alive,
and it's time to, the
computers are up and running
on day one and so I need
to come up with something.
So what I said, what I Tweeted was,
launch was awesome.
The adventure of a lifetime has begun.
I'm feeling great, enjoying the view,
something like along, but--
- That's okay.
- The first, it was okay,
but during the mission,
you know I was paying attention
to the mission of course.
During the mission, a side bar,
is I didn't get any email from my kids.
My kids, they were both teenagers,
you mentioned I'm a father,
yes, I love my kids.
They were both
in high school.
- I love my kids, but.
- But they were very happy
that I as away from the planet
at that time.
(laughing) Yeah.
- And they were ignoring me
and I'm writing them, you know, and they
emailed nothing.
- Well, they
could've taken it personally.
Some dads go on a
business trip.
- No, no they didn't.
- You left planet Earth.
- They were happy I was away.
- Oh, okay.
- And they were like,
dad, annoying dad can't bother us anymore,
and I wasn't getting any emails
from them.
- Where's dad,
is he in New York or is he in space,
which, where'd he go?
- Right, well they knew
I wasn't there--
- Okay.
- And they were just happy enough
they didn't wanna be reminded.
So I wasn't getting any email from 'em.
Saturday comes, Saturday
comes and Saturday Night Live
makes fun of this Tweet,
and this was in '09
so it's the 40th anniversary of the,
almost a 40th anniversary of Apollo 11.
And, Seth Meyers, on SNL says,
we have the first Tweet
from space, Mike Massimino,
and here it is, launch was awesome.
In 40 years we've gone from,
one giant leap for mankind to,
- [Together] Launch was awesome.
- If we ever find life in the universe
I assume this is how we'll be notified.
And it shows my little
Twitter thing and it says,
Geeze dudes, aliens.
- Wow.
- So they made fun of me and my kids
finally sent my email on that Monday.
They sent me an email on that Monday
and I was, you know, after the spacewalks,
they're all like, dad,
thanks for saving the Hubble,
you did great, no.
It was, dad, they made fun of
you on Saturday Night Live.
All the kids at school loved it,
keep saying stupid stuff.
(laughing)
So I don't think Neil Armstrong
ever got a reaction like
that from his kids on that,
what he said.
- Oh.
- So--
- So that was the first Tweet.
- So that was bad advice for you.
- No, it was still good advice,
I still think it's good advice,
'cause his advice was, you
take care of business first
and that's what you concentrate on
and I think that's the way that he was.
And I think that's why he was chosen
to be the first man to walk
on the Moon.
- If only
he had followed it up with,
and make sure you schedule
your Tweets.
- (laughing) Yeah.
- And also this story, and others,
we can find in your book, "Spaceman".
- Yes, thank you.
- Yeah of course.
- Thanks for that plug,
thanks man.
- That's a plug,
it's a, yes, it is a plug,
right?
- Thank you.
- It's authentically conceived,
you're a great story teller
and I love the book.
- Thank you.
- And you didn't fix
the cover photo though
because you're sitting
there smiling--
- Oh yeah, I know.
- And there some rocket
coming out of your ear
that's launched behind you.
- Well, I was told the
publisher's in charge of the,
you can have input for the cover,
but they, I was in charge
of the words inside.
- It looked like you had ear wax
with a plane coming out.
- I know, and I've heard,
in fact if the see the,
I've heard other comments
which we can't mention
about what that looks like,
so yes, I agree.
- So the two of us saw a
prescreening of, "First Man",
and everything I know
about Neil Armstrong,
'cause I knew him, I mean,
I don't claim I knew him well,
we weren't beer-drinking buddies,
but, I mean, we were
acquaintances I should say.
And everything I knew about him,
and I think is true for you,
all that you about him,
all that you knew of him,
was consistent with how he
was portrayed in this film,
would you agree?
- Absolutely, yeah, everything
that I knew about him.
(voice covers voice)
- So give me
your best characterization of him
'cause some people don't even know that.
- I would say that he loved,
he loved flying airplanes,
he loved doing his job,
he loved being a test pilot.
- He was fighter,
test pilot, he was
a fighter pilot.
- A fighter pilot first.
- In Korea.
- Yep.
- Then test pilot.
- Then a test pilot.
He was, I guess, a very
thoughtful engineer,
but loved flying.
When he came and spoke to our
astronaut class--
- Oh, at that engineer club.
- Well he was, but he saw it
as an engineering problem,
as a challenge, and that's why I think
he was not just a great
pilot 'cause he loved flying,
but also a great test
pilot because he enjoyed
the engineering behind it.
And that's, that was pretty impressive
I thought.
- That's a,
I had never thought
about that.
- Yeah.
- You could be fly boy and
say, give me that machine
I'll do it what I get,
but if you're an engineer
you're thinking about
that machine.
- Right.
- And if the aerodynamics,
the everything.
- If you're really into that,
like he was, I think it was this,
and not all great engineers I think
can make great pilots, but he
was one of those that could
and I think that's where you have
a really special test pilot.
- And do they ever make a
change to the plane and, or,
and he says, no, that ain't gonna work?
- I'm sure he chimed in.
I would expect that those
conversations were made,
especially back in those days
when they were doing things
that were much different
than what they'd ever done before
and how fast they were going,
how high they were going,
and what they were trying to achieve.
When his test pilot days there was,
I'm sure there was a lot of
those conversations, yeah.
- So, I would add to
that that Neil Armstrong
was not gregarious,
he was a very--
- That's right.
- Quiet man, did not seek publicity,
did not, you know, he's not the person
you'd say is the life
of the party.
- Yep.
- But sometimes the people
who are not the life of the party
are sitting there doing nothing
he's sitting there in his
head figuring stuff out,
it's the active restless
brain of the engineer.
And so this would
surely capture--
- That was him
and when I first met him, Neil,
you described that really well.
When he got up there in front of our,
we all stood up and gave
him a standing ovation
and just about all, I was
one of the younger people
in that group of new astronauts in '96,
so just about everyone in that room,
maybe one or two wouldn't remember,
remembered where they were,
and he in that episode
of what he did, landing on
the Moon, that whole mission,
inspired most of us to become
astronauts I would say,
we all remembered it.
And--
- So you're meeting your hero?
- We're meeting our hero,
and it wasn't just me,
it was everybody.
And he was, he's the man,
right, he was the man.
And he gets up there and was,
it seemed almost like
he was painfully shy,
almost that it was hard for him to talk.
And he didn't mention the Moon at all,
he talked about test flying
and how important that is
and how you have to be diligent about it
and how much he loved doing that.
And after he was done when we
got to questions and answers
then we started asking him,
what was it like on the Moon?
But up to that point he was
delivering that message,
almost painfully shy, but he was...
He loved so much what he did
and felt it was so important
that that's what he focused on.
He was the right man for the job.
- Do you think NASA chose him
to be the first on the Moon
because of all this?
Because he does not seek publicity,
because, 'cause if they got
some grandstanding--
- Yeah.
- Y'all look at me
I'm on the Moon.
- Yep, yep.
- Then here's my book
about me being on the Moon
and here's my talk show, interview.
- I've got a need for speed.
- Right.
- You mean if it was like one of us?
(laughing)
Is that what you're
basically saying?
- No.
- Yeah, no that's--
- Do you think
they thought that through?
- I think that what they--
- They picked someone humble.
- You know that seems like a,
I used to think that maybe at first,
but I think lately in the last few years
I changed my thinking of it
because I think that's
almost too much thinking.
I think really what they wanted to do,
no really, I think what
they were looking for
was a guy--
- I think that was
too much thinking.
- No, 'cause you're,
I guess you start--
- You're overthinking.
- You start thinking too many things
about this guy is wearing
blue and this you, you know,
you overthink it.
I think what they saw was
this was the right man
to land on the Moon.
Whether or not he was gregarious,
whether or not he was shy,
whether or not, whatever those personality
traits were--
- Had ice in his veins.
- He was the right man
because he understood what was happening,
he was gonna focus on that job 100%,
not be distracted, and
maybe that has partly to do
with the fame-seeking, but I think really
he was chosen not for that,
for the personality part of it,
but because he was the right man to
do that job.
- So, did they
chose who actually got out of the
capsule first.
- Yeah, yeah.
- I mean--
- Yeah, that's
the whole thing.
- And so,
but he was the mission
lead as well.
- The mission commander.
- Yes.
- He was the commander,
that's right.
- And so,
it wasn't because he was
commander that he got to go first,
they actually made the choice like,
you're gonna be the first
to step foot on the Moon.
- And you're commander.
- And you're commander.
Like those are two separate things?
- You think.
- Yeah, and like,
for example--
- It could have been
like in Star Trek--
- Yep.
- You go check out the glowing
blob first.
- Right.
- (laughing) Buzz, you check,
see that glowing thing, report
back to me--
- Right.
- And then I'll step off the,
off the--
- And that's traditionally...
- You're gonna be the black
ensign from the Enterprise.
- But that's the way,
that's the way we did it,
now that your saying it that's
why I space walked apparently
because that's what we would
do in the shuttle program,
the commander and the pilot
would not go out and space walk,
the mission specialists would.
And the underlying, one of the
underlying reasons was--
- Just because
a mission specialists is
someone who has an expertise,
usually a scientific or
an engineering expertise,
brought into the service
of the mission.
- Correct.
- So you're not flying
the plane--
We're not there
for the landing.
- Right.
- We're not gonna land, I
mean we were part of landing,
but we're not actually
gonna land.
- Right.
- 'Cause the idea is what happens
if your commander goes
out and doesn't come back
who'd gonna land?
- Right.
But it's okay if you go
out and don't come back.
You could still land the--
- I hate to put it that way,
- Land the bird.
- But yes.
(voices cover voices)
When we used to, we used to
brief for our space walks
there was a lost crewman,
there was a line,
everything you would check like all right,
this is in place, this check,
that check, that check,
and part of the briefing
was, lost crewman.
And lost crewman was a procedure we had
to go rescue a guy that becomes lost.
And what we would do,
sort of kidding around,
was lost crewman, don't worry about it,
we got three more.
(laughing)
That's what we, because
we had four space walkers,
so that was like the
joke and we'd all laugh,
but underlying like, you'll come get me,
but we were gonna do that if we needed.
(laughing)
- What were we talking about?
Oh, the commander, who went
out first.
- Yeah, the commander.
- And traditionally, I think
in Gemini what they did was,
is that the commander would never
go outside--
- Gemini,
two astronaut capsule.
- Right,
and that's when they first space walked,
Ed White was the first space walker,
and Buzz was one of the last
space walkers in Gemini,
but I think it
was tradition--
- Buzz Aldrin.
- The commander stayed
inside, yeah, thank you,
but mainly a command, I
think the tradition was
the commander stayed inside
and it was the pilot who went out
and then came back,
'cause only one guy at a time going.
So this was a different case
where you're gonna have
both people going out
for the walk.
- Wow.
- Yeah.
- Part of the authenticity of the film
was there are little details
that they didn't have
to really care about,
but they did.
- Yes.
- So there's a moment, I
happen to own an Omega watch
that was gifted to me
by Stephen Hawking.
- Wow.
- And.
- That's pretty nice.
- Yeah.
- I don't mean
to name drop.
- I was gonna say
I just like the fact that
you didn't name drop.
- I've got one too, but
I had to buy it myself.
- Right.
- No, no.
- I have a Stephen Hawking watch too,
he just doesn't know I have it.
(laughing)
- We got his watch.
- Yeah, he was
just walking around just like,
anybody seen my watch?
Who has seen my watch?
(laughing)
- So (laughing).
- It was gifted to you by you.
- Exactly.
- So, no I got the Stephen Hawking Award
for Science Communication,
so it's only like a year old,
but this--
- Cool man.
- This introduced me to
Omega watches.
- Yeah.
- Omega was the first watch
on the Moon.
- Right.
- They were chosen by NASA
after NASA got all the premier,
what the Rolex, Breitling,
whatever the top watches were of the day,
I wonder if they threw in a Timex,
I don't know, just to get America
in there.
- I bet so.
- I'm sure they did.
- I'm sure they did.
- Okay, so they throw it in.
- It's probably
still on the Moon, taking a
lickin' and keepin' on tickin'.
- Nobody remembers that advertisement.
- It was a windup.
- So--
- In fact the,
yeah the Moon watch was a windup,
but go ahead, yes.
- So they put 'em all in black boxes each
and scrambled 'em, and they'd shake 'em,
bake them, heated 'em--
- Yeah.
- Radiated 'em and at the
end of the experiments
the Omega still had the
correct time--
- Wow.
- So Omega is our watch.
And so they still milk that
today with their advertising,
but in any event, in this
festival that I attended,
the STARMUS Festival that
Hawking is an organizer of,
Omega was one of the sponsors
so this became the watch.
It's engraved on the back.
- Yeah.
- But I saw a watch that
looked very much like this
on Neil Armstrong's hand
in the movie.
- It's right here man.
- It's right there.
- I'm wearing it, yeah.
- You're wearing it--
- Yeah I have.
(voices cover voices)
- And did you get this
from being an astronaut?
- No, no, this, okay so we had,
we had Omega watches on the shuttle
and the way it was explained to us,
like how they won that
competition, was the crystal.
Apparently that crystal
that they had on top
was almost impenetrable and you could do
whatever you wanted to it
and it wasn't gonna crack,
so particles are a problem.
So that's why, I think that's
why it won out.
- And with Moon gloves
how do you wind a watch?
- Well I think,
you have to do--
(laughing)
wind it ahead of time.
- Okay.
- We had a different Omega that we had,
you wind it ahead of time.
We had a different Omega for the shuttle,
this is the Moon version.
I had a different that
I've had to purchase.
Not Omega was willing, I think,
to give us these watches for free,
but it was a government program
and NASA said, not so fast.
- It's not allowed, yeah.
- So we had to buy our watches.
But we were able to
purchase them from Omega
and then fly them.
I'm not wearing my shuttle watch,
and I'm wearing a Moon watch that, yes,
I had to go into the Omega store and buy.
- Man, that is messed up, man.
- No, no you can't otherwise you
can be bought.
- It's the right, yeah.
_ It's the right thing--
- It's the right thing
to do.
- That's how
you want it to be, you don't want it
the other way.
- No, no, it's
the right thing.
- We gotta take a break,
yeah, we gotta take a break.
You are listening to, possibly
even watching StarTalk.
This is our, "First Man" edition,
celebrating the life and
the first steps on the Moon
of Neil Armstrong.
We'll be right back.
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- We're back on StarTalk,
"First Man" edition.
Who was the first man, Neil Armstrong,
first man on the Moon.
Our friend of StarTalk, Mike Massimino,
he's been in space twice.
One of them to repair my
Hubble Space Telescope,
I love you man for that
I love you--
- Thank you, you're welcome.
(laughing)
- Chuck Nice, co-host chuck.
- Yes, and I've been in
space, I'm still in space,
I'm still in space.
- Spaced out and being in space,
two different things,
Chuck.
- Different things.
- I was asked, back in 2009,
to host, to MC, the 40th
anniversary of the Apollo landing.
1969 plus 40 gets you to 2009.
It was in the Air & Space Museum.
Mike, you tell what I did in front of,
you told--
- You Moon walked.
- Well I had--
- You have.
- Well I had, you had
every living Moon walker
in the audience in
front of me.
- You said some interesting
things I remember.
I'm sorry, you wanna talk to
me and the Moon walking thing?
- No, no, I don't remember what I said,
I can't--
- No you said some really,
you said something about
being the 40th.
- The 40th anniversary,
yeah okay.
- Yeah, and you was saying
how 40 was an interesting number
because--
- Oh.
- 50 you might not, you know,
and we've lost so many
of those guys--
- Yeah, yeah.
- Between then and now.
- Wow.
- And you did the Moon walk
which was great.
- I had to,
you know I don't dance
in public--
- Wait a minute
let's go back to the 40,
'cause that sounds a
little provocative.
- Oh no,
so what, I'm trying to remember
if this is when I said it.
40 is an interesting number
because in many stories they
don't track it beyond 40.
So 40 days and 40 nights--
- Correct.
- It's not 50 days and 50 nights,
40 days and 40 nights.
Jesus got 39 lashes, not 40,
'cause 40 that's
like infinite.
- Right.
- You gotta reign that in.
- Okay.
- You don't wanna kill 'em--
- Right.
- You just wanna hurt 'em.
- Oh that's the one lash
that would've did it.
- Well it's just (laughing).
What else, so just the number 40 shows up,
especially Biblically--
- Yes.
- There you go.
- Okay.
- And it's a, so when
you pass 40 it's like
more time that historically
people reckoned.
- Okay.
- So, you know, one through 40
and then infinity beyond that.
And so beyond that it's like, okay,
is it still there for us to remember
or do we have to be reminded of it?
Whereas if it's within
40 you can talk about it,
people were alive, they were conscious,
they were adults,
they were, so.
- That makes sense.
That's two generations
basically.
- Yeah.
- And beyond two generations--
- You're stepping into
the next generation.
- You're stepping into
the next generation, that
makes perfect sense, okay.
- I think that set the mood at the time
that this was a really special night
and at that time
Neil Armstrong--
- Thanks for remembering that.
- Yep.
- At this event,
afterwards, StarTalk was in our first year
and I said, this was a
target of opportunity for me
to get a bunch of interviews
and we can make a show out of this.
So I waited until the event was over,
we had a reception and all of this,
and I got interviews
with various key people
in the space program at the time
as well as some old
timers, like Neil Armstrong
and he never gives interviews.
- Yeah.
- Have you ever seen him
interviewed on TV?
- No, that's one of
the things he's known for
is not--
- Is not.
- Being a big talker.
- Here's why I think he
granted me the interview.
- Because you Moon walked?
(laughing)
- I first met him
when I was 14--
- Oh.
- On board the SS Canberra
on route from New York City
to the Coast
of Northwest Africa--
- Holy cow.
- To observe a total solar eclipse,
the longest in the century.
And he was one of the various,
sort of, important people
brought onboard--
- Right.
- Of course they would enjoy the eclipse,
but also they were
there for the rest of us
to interact with and
this is 1973--
- And you're 14?
- He's 14.
- I'm 14, yeah.
- Are you by yourself?
- Yeah, I'm by myself.
I lied, I was 15.
- You stowing?
- What did you, yeah,
I was gonna say what were you stowing?
- Did your parents know you
were going on this thing?
- They're like, wait--
- My parents
didn't even let me take the
subway back then by myself.
- Why does that suitcase have legs?
- You went on a cruise with Neil Armstrong
to see an eclipse when you were 15?
- I brought my telescope with me
that I bought from--
- I got to a ballgame
and I was excited.
- Dog-walking money,
I had my telescope,
I had my camera.
- Wow, awesome.
- And there were 1500 people.
They took off all the shuffle
board and the lounge chairs
and it was a forest of tripods on this,
the whole ship was a scientific
floating vessel.
- Wow.
- And he was there.
That's when I met Isaac
Casanova (voice covers voice)
and various other sort of heroes,
if you're a geek kid.
- Right.
- In the day.
- Wow.
- And he was sitting--
- You were a king geek.
Okay, you were king of all geeks
'cause a geek kid is just like,
I can't believe I just
got this new trading card,
you're like, I'm going to North Africa
with Neil Armstrong.
Like--
- For the eclipse.
- You kidding me?
- Yeah.
(laughing)
- All right--
- Go ahead.
- So he's sitting alone--
- That's good.
- At the bar
and this is one year after
the last mission to the Moon,
which is 1972,
it's four years after
he walked on the Moon
and he's alone, I said, Mr. Armstrong,
and I had my ship program with
his picture and everything,
and I said, would you mind signing,
well, I don't know, could you sign,
and so he signs it.
And I just said, thank you.
When I next saw him I showed him that
that I was on this vessel
and I think he,
I don't wanna project
what he might be thinking,
but I think he saw that
I become somebody--
- Yeah.
- No, there's an
instant connection.
- Yes.
- You come to me all these years later
with a signed program--
- Right.
- From a ship--
- I showed him that.
- That you stowed away on
so that you could go to North Africa
and watch an eclipse, that's pretty cool.
I would've rather the
story ended with him going,
pull up a stool kid, do you like scotch?
- That's what it takes
kids to get an interview
with Neil Armstrong.
(laughing)
You know you're not just gonna,
boy, hey I've got my
press credentials here,
no that's not working.
- No that's not.
- Wow.
- So and it wasn't,
it was brief, but I have it
and you'll see that he's not a,
he's smart and calm and measured
and let's check it out.
- Cool.
- This is my interview
with Neil Armstrong,
brief though it was.
Neil Armstrong, commander of Apollo 11.
How old were you 40 years ago today?
- [Neil A.] I was 38.93.
- [Neil] Excellent, I love it.
And of the entire Apollo era
what's your most indelible memory?
It could be your own walk, but if not,
I'd just be curious.
- [Neil A.] The most indelible memory
was approaching the Moon and
flying through the Moon shadow
so that the Moon was eclipsing the sun
and we could see the
corona all around the Moon.
It was not circular, it was elliptical,
which was a big surprise,
I didn't understand that.
And then we could see the Moon,
the dark side of the Moon, of course,
illuminated by Earth light
and we could see the
craters and the valleys
and the plains in a blue-gray
three-dimensional view
that was spectacular.
- The texture, the image.
- And remarkable,
but imperceptible to a camera,
but the human eye was wonderful.
- [Neil] And the last question,
what do you think NASA should do next?
- [Neil A.] I'm supportive
of the NASA plan
and I'm--
- Just needs more money
I suppose, but the ideas are there.
- [Neil A.] Yeah, I think
the approach they're on
is a good one.
- I like that
that's a very pilot, the approach here.
(laughing)
- [Neil A.] They're a
little below (mumbles)
but, you know, they're gonna get there.
- [Neil] All right, Neil Armstrong,
thanks for those three questions.
- Wow.
- Yeah.
- That's pretty cool.
- The guy's never interviewed
and I felt like I was even taking too much
by asking just those
three questions.
- Yeah.
- And, see I'm kinda giddy--
- He was really into
that second, what's the indelible,
you could actually--
- Yeah.
- I can almost feel him--
- Looking and experiencing it.
- Looking at the Moon, yes--
- And experiencing it.
- Like it was really very visceral,
he's recounting.
- And consider
that's nothing you're gonna
get on this side of the Moon.
- Yeah.
- Right.
- So it had to be the back side
'cause he studied, he would've studied
all the maps and pictures and everything.
- Right.
- Yeah.
- And you know one of the things that,
that I noticed with the movie,
that I liked,
one of my favorites--
- The "First Man".
- The "First Man" movie,
was that you're able to
see what it looked like
and I think they probably
did it pretty accurately.
Because the film that we
had back then, in 1969,
we had some, but especially of
the approach and the landing,
if you remember, like the
camera is kinda looking out
that triangular window
and the dust kicks up
and you really don't get an appreciation
for what it was like to see outside.
Can you imagine now if
we were able to do that
with a bunch of GoPros, or
whatever they would stick on,
you know high def cameras,
we would see that moonscape.
And probably even the night passes
(voice covers voice) describe.
- A GoPro every foot.
- Probably so--
- Mounted on the thing.
- And right, you know.
- Let's make the whole--
- And it's easy right?
- Make the whole ship out of GoPros.
- (laughing) That's--
- And now,
and even in the low-light
level on the other side
I'm sure they could've found something,
you know they would've
been able to do something.
'Cause just recently now
we can get great images
of the planet at night from
the station, for example.
- And if it wasn't clear his
point that the eye catches it,
but the camera doesn't--
- Yeah.
- Is 'cause the eye in one glimpse
can get a very high-dynamic range.
So the Moon can be very dim,
but the solar corona could be very bright
and you can see all that at once.
With the camera it's gonna commit
to either the bright
corona, or the dim thing,
but you're not gonna get both.
- Right.
- And he's experiencing both.
- That description he gave you
allowed us to picture what it was like.
There's no real good video of that,
but his description of it is what we
have to go on.
- Yeah, that's so cool,
like yeah.
- But you can feel that
he'd rather just not be,
be interviewed, right,
it's he just wanna
go on his way.
- Yeah.
- But is that really the best person
to have represent the fact
that you have walked on the
surface of a celestial body?
- That's a good question.
- You know.
I've heard one of his,
I heard Mike Collins
at Neil's memorial--
- Mike Collins
the third astronaut who didn't get to go
down to the Moon.
- Right he was,
yeah he orbited in lunar
orbit in the Command Module
while Neil and, Neil
Armstrong and Buzz Aldrin
were on the Moon.
I heard him speak at the memorial,
I don't wanna misquote him,
but at Neil Armstrong's memorial,
when he died and they had
a memorial service for him
at the Johnson Space Center,
and he talked a little bit about that
about him being maybe shy and cerebral,
or whatever, but he was
like, well who would you,
why wouldn't you want that?
Why wouldn't you want this
man who was so qualified,
who did such a great job,
why you want him to be anything different
than who he was?
And I think that's, and
I think that that's,
he was the right man to land on the Moon
and I think that was what
they were most concerned with.
Because, no kidding, they weren't so sure
they were coming back from that mission.
They weren't so sure they
were gonna be successful.
Apollo 12 and 13, 11, 12 and
13, all had the same mission.
They all trained for the same mission
because they weren't so sure
11 was gonna be successful
and then it was and so then 12
had to come up with something quick,
which was different than
what they did on 11.
But they all trained for that same mission
'cause they weren't so
sure 11 was gonna be,
was gonna be successful.
- What you're saying
is 11 failed then--
- 12 would try.
- Well next up--
- You try it, right.
- You're next.
- Wow.
- If that failed, you're next.
- 13 was gonna try it
and that can be a few different ways.
Not so that would get, that
they wouldn't come back alive,
but they might not get down
to the surface and come back,
they would have to abort
and then come back to Earth.
So it was really important for them
to try to get the right
guy to be the first guy.
- And they--
- And that's what
they went with, who's the best guy
to pull off the landing especially of this
and then come back alive.
- And that's why
he had ice in his veins.
And by the way, there's
a misconception, I think,
about the first comments from Houston
after he says, Houston,
Tranquility base here,
Eagle has landed.
- Yep.
- Okay, which means, of
course the first word,
or the first comments
from the Moon is, Houston.
- There you go.
(laughing)
- A plug for Houston,
Texas, my former home.
- The planet, Houston.
- Yep.
- So, Houston, Tranquility
base here.
- That's the way we talk.
- Actually there was some other,
contact light and
other things.
- Yeah, contact light.
- Right, but Houston
then says something like,
congratulations guys, you
have a bunch of guys down here
who were about to turn blue.
- Yeah,
that was Charlie Duke.
- Okay.
- Yep.
- You think they're saying that
because they just landed on the Moon,
that's not why they're saying it.
- They were holding their breath?
- That's not, yes, they
were holding their breath,
but it's not because they
just landed on the Moon,
that's not why.
- Okay why were,
okay, so why were they about to turn?
Wait, they were Smurfs,
no I'm only kidding.
(laughing)
I'm sorry I had to do that.
- Because Neil
was not happy with the
original landing spot
and he only has a certain amount of fuel
to prevent himself from
crashing down onto the Moon,
this is keeping them buoyant.
- Yep.
- Nope, too many boulders there,
nope, too many boulders there,
and you see the fuel
come down, wait a minute,
and then he keeps going, ah,
I think I'll go over there,
and my boy is smooth.
- Yeah.
- It's like he's looking
for parking in Midtown.
- (laughing) Park, he can't
park there.
- Yeah, I can't park there.
Baby, baby, you think I can fit in there?
- No, no, no that's too tight,
try over there.
- Try over there.
- But if you don't make
it you gotta go home.
He probably--
- Wait, wait, wait.
- Go ahead.
- So then he finally finds a spot, lands,
there's like one
or 2% fuel left.
- Yep.
- That's what they, because if he got,
if he went to zero, 'cause if, if,
if he lands with fuel in a place
that he could crash because it's not
level that's bad--
- Can't get home.
- If he keeps looking,
yeah can't get home,
if he keeps looking and runs out of fuel
he'll crash because
he runs out of fuel.
- Well, he may
have aborted.
- Oh, they could
have still aborted?
- I don't think he would.
- If there's abort you just,
you just jettison
at that point.
- Yeah, yep,
I think that's what they
would've done.
- I forgot about that,
forgot about that.
- Oh, okay.
- So--
- Which is not
a good deal either.
- So he, with just,
and they capture this in
the film and the tension,
so that's why everyone at Mission Control
was freaking out.
- Oh.
- Because that's, the
mission might not complete,
not because, oh we're happy you landed,
yes, we're all happy he landed
on the Moon.
- Yeah, that's right.
- But we're happy you landed on
the Moon alive.
- Yep,
yeah he was down and he had
a, low fuel light came on,
30 second fuel,
or whatever it was.
- Yeah.
- And the cadence of, which
is depicted in the movie,
but the cadence of what,
you know the calls he
was getting from Buzz,
so many forward, so many down,
and I think he was talking about rates
at that point.
- Yeah, that's right,
the rates going down.
- Right,
and forward, you have five forward
to give him an idea of how
fast he was moving forward
so, 'cause he's all out the window
I would think at that point
and that's the cadence of
him coming down there, yeah.
- Wow, that's fascinating.
- So I gotta agree if
your mission is to succeed
that has higher priority
over any social profile
you have--
- Or public relations.
- Yeah.
- Right.
- Yeah.
- That you succeed first
and worry about the rest
of that later.
- Right.
- And his friends, his colleagues,
John Young, was still an astronaut
when I became an astronaut,
and later walked on the Moon,
Alan Bean was his office mate
and his colleague as well,
another Moon walker,
and I've heard him and
those other guys say,
Neil was the right guy for the job.
If they had a pick out of who they knew
was gonna get that job
done, it was Neil Armstrong.
- All right, we're gonna
take our next break.
We're talking about, "First Man",
that's the first man on
the Moon, Neil Armstrong,
when StarTalk returns.
- [Announcer] This episode of StarTalk
is brought to you by CuriosityStream.
- We're back, StarTalk,
the "First Man" edition.
We're celebrating the
life of Neil Armstrong
and the Moon landing and his first steps.
We've got, Mike Massimino,
Mike.
- Neil.
- Very good, I'm just still laughing
and chuckling at your
first Tweet.
- Oh boy, yeah.
- What was it, golly I'm in space,
was that what it was, no.
- Launch was awesome.
- Launch was awesome.
- Yeah.
- Okay.
- I should've thought more
about it, but--
- Maybe they misunderstood it
and thought you meant, lunch was awesome.
- No that was the first day in space,
no lunch yet.
You're not feeling that great.
Lunch was awesome the next day,
that's when I wrote about
the macaroni and cheese,
this first day was long.
- So at NASA there's a
famous colorful character
called, Gene Kranz, and he's the one
who is portrayed famously
in the film, "Apollo 13"
saying what?
- Failure is not an option.
- Failure is not an option.
I bumped into him--
- Did he say that
in real life?
- Yeah, oh yeah,
well, that's the legend.
- Okay, cool.
- And I bumped into him
with a microphone in tow,
first year of StarTalk.
I'm getting all the interviews
from all these space
folks at this celebration
of NASA's 40th anniversary
for landing on the Moon,
right, in 2009.
Now let's pick up with my
conversation with Gene Kranz.
Here with Gene Kranz, failure
is not an option Gene Kranz,
is that your middle name now?
- [Gene] That's a that's
been a good game plan
for most of my life.
I really came into failure is not a option
well after I started
the business of Stars and Strips Forever.
When I was going through flight training
I had a very bad night.
My first night solo I suffered
almost disabling vertigo
and finally got back, landed,
and the next evening you
gotta go out and do it again
and there is a story about,
you gotta ride the horse at 3:00.
Well I was fortunate that
as I was sweatin' it out,
chain smokin' Lucky Strikes,
the flight line public
address system came alive,
checking it out for the Saturday parade
and they played The Stars
and Stripes Forever.
I picked up my parachute,
aced that night flight,
in fact I aced the business.
As a cadet graduated, went
to fighter weapon school,
and from that day on everyday
of my professional life
started with, The Stars
and Stripes Forever.
- [Neil] It's an inspiring,
everybody's got something
that gets 'em going.
For most people it's a cup of coffee.
- [Gene] Neil, I start off
with a cup of coffee too,
but the Stars and Stripes,
it was interesting.
I looked for something that very slowly
builds the energy, builds the crescendo
such that when you hit each days work
you're at the peak performance
and you remain there throughout the day.
I found out that basically
for my standpoint
psyching yourself up
is the key to success.
Believing that you can.
Believing that you will.
And then when you fall down believing
that you can pick yourself
up and start all over again.
- [Neil] I wanna ask you
three questions.
- Okay.
- [Neil] You ready?
How old were you 40 years ago today?
- [Gene] (laughing) I was 36 years old.
- [Neil] You were a baby.
- [Gene] I was a baby.
My teams and mission
control averaged age, 26.
The majority of those were
kids fresh out of college.
They had a couple years training,
they grew up in the Gemini
Program, early Apollo,
they lived through the
disastrous Apollo 1 fire
and they became tough and competent
and that was the fuel,
the energy for the fire
that took us to the Moon.
- [Neil] What is your
most indelible memory
from the entire Apollo era?
- [Gene] Neil, I,
I would say the most indelible thing
were really many things.
They were the personalities of the people.
I had young kids that came
in fresh out of college
who had this dream of space.
I had the engineers come in
who developed the initial trajectory work,
John lu-el-en and Carl
ha-us-sin, te-ka win Roberts,
who were absolute pure mathematicians
and they reveled, I mean this world.
- So most people just--
- Was life to 'em
and basically I was a dumb engineer,
I was a dinosaur, but my
business was not to know
the work that they did
to the level they did it,
my job was to be able to
ask the right questions
and watch the clock.
I counted cadence for Mission Control.
- [Neil] So most people
who only see the astronauts
have no concept of all this
that's going on behind the scenes
that's making it happen
in the first place?
- [Gene] Well, the Mission Control Team
has the responsibilities
for planning, training, and operate.
And when we have problems
during the course of the mission
we have to come up with solutions
that allow you to continue
with the plan that you had
and if that is not possible
to come up with another plan
that is just about as good.
- [Neil] One last question.
What's the primary goal
you think NASA should have going forward?
- [Gene] I believe NASA
should go back to the Moon
and then on to Mars.
I believe that it's very
important, you know,
to me the Moon is like a boundary
in the Mississippi River,
we've been across there a few times.
But really think about the development
that took place out West.
Think about Lewis and Clark
going out to the Pacific.
Think about the business of exploration
and those things that
we learned and developed
and discovered out there.
But most importantly I think
it is a human thing.
Exploration is a process
that must be in every person's mind.
It has to be part of their personality,
it has to be the kind of thing
that makes 'em wanna get up
and go to work each day and discover.
- [Neil] So back to the
Moon, on to Mars and beyond?
- [Gene] That's right.
- [Neil] We got it, and go for it.
- [Gene] Go for launch Neil, okay?
- There's only one
Gene Kranz.
- Yep.
- I effin' love that guy.
(laughing)
I love him.
- You want that to be the voice in Houston
when you are in the universe somewhere.
- I want that to be the
voice of everything.
That guy is amazing.
- Will we be okay?
You will be fine.
- I'll tell ya
what you're gonna be,
you're gonna be absolutely terrific,
that's what you're gonna be.
Neil, I wanna tell ya, I like coffee,
I like my coffee as black as space,
but I use
the Stars and Stripes as
the sugar in my coffee
and I wake up every morning to coffee
and Stars and Stripes.
It's tremendous.
- That's America.
(laughing)
- That guy is awesome.
That dude is awesome.
- He's really the guy that you want
lookin' out after your ass, is what it is.
- Really.
- Right, right, right.
- I mean you're up there in space
you wanna know that the man in charge
is gonna make sure you're okay
and is gonna consider
it most important.
- He didn't mean God
in that case, the man in charge,
he meant, Gene Kranz.
- I meant, Gene Kranz.
(laughing)
No the man in charge what I really mean
is the flight director.
The flight director is the
person who oversees the team
that is looking out for you and,
and that's what I always felt,
you have a certain connection
with your launch flight director,
in this case I think Gene
was the launch flight director for,
and Mike Leinbach was
the guy that launched us
out of KSC and then our launch director
on my second mission,
Norm Knight and Tony se-ka-chi,
was the guy during orbit,
and there was though,
they I think follow--
- You had an orbit guy?
- We had an orbit guy,
there was an orbit guy
for Apollo 11 as well, right,
but they all followed
I think in Gene's steps
and that was what you wanted.
You wanted someone who made
sure you were coming back.
- The right stuff wasn't only the folks
who flew--
- No.
- It was the folks
on the ground.
- Yes.
And they take it just as
personal when something happens
as anyone else involved.
Their job is to bring you
back more than anything.
- Now I know where
that saying--
- You wanna guy like that,
what is that?
- What is that?
- Now I know
where that saying comes from.
- What's that?
- [Together] Failure is not an option.
- You hear people say that all the time.
- You didn't know that was
Gene Kranz?
- You didn't
know it was him?
- I thought it was,
I didn't, I thought it
was like a movie quote.
- That well, yeah, from him.
- I didn't know.
- Because it's quoting him.
- It's the title of his
book I think as well,
is "Failure Is Not An Option".
- Yeah, yeah, his book.
- Aw man that is.
- You gotta go get this book.
- I'm gonna go get him,
in me.
- Get it on audio books.
- Exactly.
- I hope he narrated it.
- Oh my god.
- Chuck is like his eyes are popping
out of his head.
- Yeah, he really, yeah.
- I love that guy like this dude
he's like 76, right there
when you're talking to him,
and even at 76 and you're
talking to this guy
he sounds like a 22 year old kid.
- Right, with excitement--
- Yes,
- Right, right.
- I love that.
- Mike, did they level with you
what your risk of not coming back was?
Because they made a point
of this in, "First Man",
that these risks are real
and we saw others die,
Apollo 1, three astronauts died,
on Earth.
- Wow.
- There are test pilots who have died.
So this is a specter
over your choice to participate.
- Uh, yeah, I think they tried to be
as accurate as they could
about it.
- And honest.
- Yeah, and I remember
it more 'cause I was,
I flew on Columbia,
the mission right before we lost Columbia.
And then I flew again after on Atlantis,
both shuttle flights.
And I don't remember what the,
there wasn't as much talk beforehand,
I guess it wasn't maybe
as much on our mind
as it was after the accident and we lived
through that.
- After the Columbia accident.
- After the Columbia accident.
But the number I remember being told
was about one out of 75 chance.
And they weren't saying we
want you to know this number
it was more like, this is our
new calculated probabilities.
- I was told it was like one in 50.
- Well, I think it was one out of 75,
and that was total destruction,
that's loss of crew and vehicle,
that's everyone's dead
and the vehicle can't be used again.
There are other odds that may be of
(voice covers voice)
- They sold
to the odds of reusing a vehicle
with the odds of you coming back alive?
- Yeah, well--
- That's sounds pretty crass.
- Yeah, but it's, but it's,
I hate to put it that way,
but when we lost Columbia
we just didn't lose our seven friends
we also lost the
spaceship and what happens
to the program, so.
- Right, okay.
- There's a loss of crew and vehicle.
Now losing, but it's not so much about,
this really isn't crass I don't think,
because you can lose the
vehicle but save the crew.
So if you have an abort with the shuttle
and it ends up in the water as you abort
hopefully the crew gets out alive.
So it's a combination of
loss of crew and vehicle
was about one out of 75.
And as it turned out we had two accidents
out of 135 flights--
- That's one in 50.
- That's probably how they
came up with that number
quite honestly, but it was one
out of 75 with a total loss.
- And do you think it
about it all when you're,
or are just too busy
doing your point of duties
to even let it cross your mind?
- No it.
- I'd took a flight
back to New York from
Detroit yesterday morning
and the whole time I was like,
god, I just hope these people
know what they're doing.
- Sometimes you worry more
on a commercial flight
then you are doing anything.
We had a, you know, I,
yeah, absolutely, I did.
I don't know if everyone does,
but I knew that there
was a very good chance
that something might, you
might not be coming back.
- Wow.
- And ah,
I think it's, in someways
that's a good thing to know.
- The movie captured this poignantly
with his relationship with his wife
and his kids.
- Yeah, and I think
they also showed the,
after it was successful,
how wonderful it was throughout
(voice covers voice).
- That we had succeeded.
- That we had succeeded.
Alan Bean tells this story
that after Apollo 11,
and after his mission,
it wasn't, the whole world,
his impression was the whole world,
it wasn't like you did
it, or the U.S. did it,
but we did it.
- We the human species.
- Yeah, that motto, they
came for all humankind,
let's change it a little bit right,
for all humankind, I think that's
the way everybody felt--
- We come in peace.
- We come in peace for
all humankind.
- For all of our.
- And that's the way I
think people felt about it.
It was an accomplishment that humans,
that showed what we could do,
and the whole world was a part of it,
and they felt it was an
accomplishment for the world.
- I had the privilege and honor
to be invited to Neil Armstrong's
funeral service in Ohio
after he died.
And they had, the remaining
sort of Moon walkers were there,
and the moment was solemn, of course,
but it was also celebratory,
the reflections on Neil as a person.
And one thing that came across,
and let me, we're running out of time,
let me sort of end on
these thoughts if I may,
was, yeah, Neil was the
right guy for this job
and because if he started
grandstanding his achievement
then it would be like
he landed on the Moon,
but in fact we all landed on the Moon.
It's our collective
first step on the Moon.
Tens of thousands of
engineers, and scientists,
and hundreds of millions of taxpayers,
we landed on the Moon.
And what did he do when he was done,
he became citizen Armstrong again.
He became a professor, went back to Ohio,
where so many astronauts have come,
became a professor and shunned interviews.
And I'm reminded was it,
Roman emperor, Cincinnatus,
Cincinnatus after whom
Cincinnati is named,
Cincinnati, Ohio--
- That's where he taught.
- He, he came to become emperor
and when he was done he went back home
and continued as a farmer.
Didn't exploit the fact
that he ran all of Rome,
he didn't grandstand that fact.
He was called into service,
he gave of himself, his time, his energy,
sacrificed whatever was
necessary for his home life,
when he was done he went home.
That's what Neil Armstrong did
he came home to us all.
- That's pretty cool man I have to say.
I understand it from Neil Armstrong,
Cincinnatus, got a problem with him.
(laughing)
- What's your problem
with Cincinnatus?
- I don't know,
I'm just saying, you know,
you were ruling all of Rome
and then you became a farmer,
what's your problem buddy?
Are you kidding me?
- The Roman Empire.
- You had the Roman
Empire at your disposal
and you go back to farming.
- It's a reminder,
it's a reminder that some people
want power for power's sake
rather than power to lead and guide others
in a time of need.
We gotta end it on that.
Mike Massimino.
- Thank you.
- Always great to have
you man.
- And thanks,
and thanks for doing
this for Neil, I think,
for Neil Armstrong.
He is a, I think the things you said
especially at the end there
I think those are lessons we can learn
for all of us no matter
what your occupation is,
how to approach things.
And he was my hero as a little boy
because he landed on the Moon,
but getting to know him
a little bit as a person
and learning more about him
that's when you realize
what a true hero he was.
So thanks for doing this
and having me a part of it.
- And, Chuck, if Gene Kranz is here
I'll (mumbles).
- Yeah, I'm just so happy
about the--
- The Cincinnati guy.
- No, Cincinnatus, Cincinnatus no,
Gene Kranz, forever,
that is all I'm saying.
- This has been StarTalk.
Most of you are listening,
some of you are watching,
I've been your host, Neil deGrasse Tyson,
as always, keep looking up.
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