>>WELCOME TO GLOBAL
PERSPECTIVES.
WHAT IS HAPPENING IN TODAY'S
INCREASINGLY CHAOTIC WORLD?
FOR INSIGHTS, WE TURN TO KIM
GHATTAS, BBC CORRESPONDENT AND
AUTHOR BASED IN WASHINGTON D.C.
>>GLOBAL PERSPECTIVES WITH
PULITZER PRIZE WINNING
COMMENTATOR, JOHN BERSIA.
>>WELCOME TO THE SHOW, KIM.
I'M SORT OF HARD PRESSED AS TO
WHERE TO START, BECAUSE YOU'VE
HAD SO MANY INTERESTING
EXPERIENCES.
>>THANKS FOR HAVING ME.
>>TELL US ABOUT BEING BORN IN
THE MIDDLE OF A CIVIL WAR IN
LEBANON.
>>IT WAS VERY NORMAL FOR ME.
BECAUSE THAT'S ALL I KNEW.
THAT WAS MY ENVIRONMENT GROWING
UP FOR THE FIRST THIRTEEN YEARS
OF MY LIFE.
MY FAMILY LIVED VERY MUCH ON THE
FRONT LINES OF THAT CIVIL WAR,
IN BEIRUT ON THE DIVIDING LINE
BETWEEN EAST AND WEST BEIRUT.
WE WERE LIVING IN A BIT OF A NO
MANS LAND.
THAT WAS IN BETWEEN THE TWO
SIDES OF THE CAPITAL.
BUT YOU COULD SAY THAT OUR SORT
OF FRONT DOOR OPENED ONTO THE
EAST OF THE CITY.
BUT OUR SCHOOL WAS ON THE
WESTERN SIDE OF THE CITY, SO WE
OFTEN HAD TO MAKE THAT CROSSING
FROM EAST TO WEST JUST TO GET TO
SCHOOL IN THE FIRST FEW YEARS OF
MY TIME AS A SCHOOL KID.
IT'S A COMBINATION OF ABSOLUTE,
SHEER HORROR AND FEAR, AND
UNCERTAINTY.
AND OF NORMALITY.
BECAUSE ON DAYS WHEN THERE IS NO
SHELLING, ON DAYS WHEN THE
SNIPERS HAVE TAKEN A BREAK YOU
GO TO SCHOOL OR YOU GO TO LUNCH
ON A SUNDAY WITH YOUR FAMILY.
YOU KNOW, THERE WERE MANY NIGHTS
SPENT STUDYING WITH NO
ELECTRICITY IN THE HOUSE.
WE'D STUDY BY CANDLE LIGHT.
THE WAR THEN IN LEBANON IS VERY
DIFFERENT FROM THE WAR WE SEE
UNFOLD IN SYRIA OVER THE LAST
FIVE YEARS.
MY FAMILY CERTAINLY NEVER HAD TO
GO HUNGRY.
IT WAS DIFFICULT.
SOMETIMES WE HAD TO QUEUE UP FOR
BREAD OR FOR WATER, OR SOME
THINGS WERE NOT AVAILABLE AT THE
SUPERMARKET.
BUT STARVATION WAS NOT USED AS A
POLICY AT THE TIME IN THIS
CONFLICT TO TRY TO GET PEOPLE TO
SURRENDER IN DIFFERENT PARTS OF
THE CONFLICT.
YOU KNOW, IT MADE ME WHO I AM
AND THERE IS NOTHING TO BE
THANKFUL FOR GROWING UP IN A
WAR.
BUT IT MADE ME WHO I AM AND I
LIKE TO THINK THAT I TURNED OUT
OKAY AND THAT I USE THIS
EXPERIENCE TO ENRICH OTHER
PEOPLE'S LIVES WITH THE
KNOWLEDGE AND EXPERIENCE THAT I
HAVE GAINED FROM GROWING UP IN
THAT CONFLICT.
AND MOST OF ALL, IT MADE ME WANT
TO BECOME A JOURNALIST.
GROWING UP IN THE CIVIL WAR IN
LEBANON MADE ME WANT TO BECOME
THE REPORTER THAT I ENDED UP
BECOMING.
FROM A VERY YOUNG AGE, AT THE
AGE OF 13, I DECIDED THAT THAT'S
WHAT I WANTED TO DO.
BECAUSE, IT WAS A DEEP SENSE OF
INJUSTICE THAT I FELT SOMETIMES
GROWING UP IN THIS CONFLICT,
WHERE I THOUGHT WHY IS THIS
HAPPENING TO US?
AND WHY ISN'T THE WORLD HELPING
MORE?
AND OF COURSE MANY COUNTRIES DID
TRY TO HELP OR SOME PEOPLE
HINDERED AND THEY GOT INVOLVED
AND THEY INTERFERED AND THEY
INVADED, OR THEY INTERVENED AND
IT WASN'T ALWAYS HELPFUL.
BUT AS A YOUNG CHILD, I ALWAYS
THOUGHT IF ONLY I COULD EXPLAIN
TO THE WORLD WHAT'S REALLY
HAPPENING IN MY COUNTRY THEY
WOULD COME AND HELP US.
AND THEY WOULD HELP PUT AN END
TO IT.
AND SO, I BECAME A JOURNALIST
AND THAT'S WHAT I STRIVE FOR
EVERY DAY TODAY IN MY CAREER AS
A CORRESPONDENT, AS A WRITER, TO
EXPLAIN THE CHAOS THAT WE ARE
LIVING IN.
TO TRY TO MAKE SENSE OF IT FOR
OTHER PEOPLE, BECAUSE I THINK
THAT WHEN YOU ARE ABLE TO MAKE
SOME SENSE FROM THE BIG PICTURE,
THAT YOU HAVE NO CONTROL OVER.
BUT IF YOU CAN MAKE SOME SENSE
OF IT YOU'LL FEEL JUST A LITTLE
BIT, A LITTLE BIT LESS
POWERLESS.
>>A LITTLE BIT LESS POWERLESS.
I'M WONDERING IF THE CIVIL WAR
EXPERIENCE PREPARED YOU FOR
JOURNALISM IN THAT, JOURNALISTS
SORT OF COUNTER INTUITIVELY RUN
IN THE DIRECTION OF CONFLICTS
AND CHAOS.
AND THE REST OF US ARE TRYING TO
GET AWAY.
BUT, WERE YOU SORT OF HARDENED I
GUESS TO THE POINT WHERE YOU
WERE ABLE TO BETTER ABLE TO DEAL
WITH THOSE LATER ON, BECAUSE YOU
WOULD HAVE THE EXPERIENCE OF THE
CIVIL WAR?
>>YOU KNOW, IT'S POSSIBLE BUT
I'LL NEVER KNOW.
RIGHT?
BECAUSE I'LL NEVER KNOW EXACTLY
IN WHICH WAY THAT WAR HAS SHAPED
ME.
AND HOW WOULD I HAVE TURNED OUT
DIFFERENTLY HAD I NOT LIVED
THROUGH OR WOULD I BE ME?
PROBABLY NOT.
BUT WHICH PARTS OF ME WOULD BE
DIFFERENT?
I DON'T KNOW.
CERTAINLY, I THINK OFTEN ABOUT
HOW THE WAR INSTILLED IN ME THIS
CONSTANT BATTLE BETWEEN FIGHT OR
FLIGHT.
RIGHT?
THE CONSTANT RUSH OF ADRENALINE
THAT WE ARE ADDICTED TO
SOMETIMES AS JOURNALISTS.
I DO THINK THAT SOME OF THAT
COMES FROM MY EXPERIENCE LIVING
IN A WAR WHERE YOU ARE
CONSTANTLY IN THE EXPECTATION OF
WHAT'S GOING TO HAPPEN NEXT?
WHAT'S GOING TO HAPPEN TOMORROW?
WILL WE LIVE OR WILL WE DIE?
AND EVEN AFTER THE WAR ENDED IN
LEBANON THERE WERE LONG PERIODS
OF INSTABILITY, BECAUSE THE WAR
ENDED WITH AN INVASION BY SYRIA.
AND SO IT MEANT THAT WE LIVED
UNDER A SYRIAN OCCUPATION FOR
FIFTEEN YEARS AFTER THE WAR
ENDED.
SO, YES, I THINK THAT A LOT OF
MY SURVIVAL INSTINCT, A LOT OF
MY RESILIENCE, A LOT OF MY
ADDICTION TO ADRENALINE COMES
FROM HAVING GROWN UP IN THAT
WAR.
BUT YOU KNOW, SOME OF IT IS
NATURE RATHER THAN NURTURE,
BECAUSE MY SISTERS WENT INTO
VERY DIFFERENT DIRECTIONS.
I HAVE TWO SISTERS.
ONE IS A BIOLOGIST AND ONE IS
IN THE RESTAURANT BUSINESS.
SO WE CHOSE VERY, VERY DIFFERENT
CAREERS.
>>TELL US HOW THIS BACKGROUND OF
THE CIVIL WAR IN LEBANON AND THE
OTHER CONFLICTS OF THAT PERIOD,
THE IRAN-IRAQ WAR, THE IRAQI
INVASION OF KUWAIT.
SO MANY THINGS HAPPENED DURING
THAT TIME AND YET, AT THE
BEGINNING OF THE 1990'S WE
SEEMED TO BE EMBARKING ON A
PERIOD OF CHANGE, A PERIOD OF
PEACE IF YOU WILL, MORE PEACEFUL
RELATIONS BETWEEN COUNTRIES OF
THE REGION.
BUT THE PROSPECT FOR GROWTH IN
TERMS OF THE ECONOMY, AND GROWTH
IN TERMS OF DEMOCRACY AND ALL OF
THAT.
BUT TAKE US BACK, BECAUSE PEOPLE
OFTEN FORGET THAT WE HAVE HAD
EXAMPLES OF DEMOCRACY IN THE
REGION AND WE CERTAINLY HAD IT
IN LEBANON BEFORE THE CIVIL WAR
AND SUBSEQUENTLY.
>>TO SOME EXTENT, YES.
I WOULD SAY THAT AS IMPERFECT AS
IT IS, LEBANON IS CERTAINLY A
MODEL OF PLURALISM
IN THE REGION.
WE HAVE EIGHTEEN DIFFERENT
RELIGIOUS GROUPS IN THE COUNTRY
THAT COEXIST.
WE HAVE FOUND A WAY TO HAVE A
CONSENSUAL DEMOCRACY WHERE
BETWEEN ALL THE DIFFERENT
MINORITIES, BECAUSE WE ALL ARE
MINORITIES.
NO ONE GROUP IS BIGGER THAN THE
OTHER.
AND THE CONSTITUTION CALLS FOR A
CHRISTIAN PRESIDENT, A SUNNI
MUSLIM PRIME MINISTER AND A SHIA
SPEAKER OF THE HOUSE.
AND THE DIFFERENT SECTS ARE ALSO
REPRESENTED, ARE GUARANTEED
REPRESENTATION IN PARLIAMENT.
NOW, YOU COULD ARGUE THAT THAT'S
NOT EXACTLY DEMOCRACY BECAUSE
THERE ARE QUOTAS IN A WAY THAT
GUARANTEE CERTAIN SEAT.
AND IT'S NOT NECESSARILY THERE
FOR BASED ON MERITOCRACY,
BECAUSE YOU HAVE TO FILL
CANDIDATES TO FILL THOSE
SPECIFIC SEATS EVEN IF THEY'RE
NOT THE BEST CANDIDATE.
BUT I DO THINK THAT LEBANON IS
AN EXAMPLE IN THE REGION.
AND IT'S NOT A PERFECT DEMOCRACY
BUT WE DO HAVE ELECTIONS THAT
ARE RELATIVELY FREE, EVEN TO
THIS DAY.
AND WE DO HAVE SOMETHING THAT IS
UNIQUE, WHICH IS THIS ABILITY TO
COEXIST IN THE COUNTRY TOGETHER.
TO HAVE THESE DIFFERENT GROUPS
THAT OPERATE AS MODERATING
FORCES ON EACH OTHER.
BECAUSE THERE CANNOT BE ONE
GROUP THAT OVERTAKES EVERYONE.
AND THAT RULES OVER EVERYONE.
BECAUSE EVERYONE HAS ROUGHLY THE
SAME WEIGHT WE HAVE.
ONE THIRD CHRISTIANS, ONE THIRD
SUNNI MUSLIM, ONE THIRD SHIA
MUSLIMS.
SO IT'S A CONSTANT EXERCISE IN
CONSENSUS AND BALANCE THAT CAN
BE SOMEWHAT PARALYZING TO THE
SYSTEM AS WELL WHEN WE CANNOT
FIND THAT CONSENSUS.
SO IT'S NOT PERFECT BUT I DO
THINK THAT IT IS THE BEST
EXAMPLE OF PLURALISM AND CHAOTIC
DEMOCRACY IN THE ARAB WORLD.
>>TALK TO US ABOUT THIS
EXPERIENCE IN THE BROADER
CONTEXT THAT WE'VE HAD FOR THE
LAST MANY DECADES.
MOST PEOPLE WEREN'T AROUND WHEN
THE INTERNATIONAL SYSTEM AS WE
NOW KNOW IT WAS BEING
ESTABLISHED.
BUT MANY OF THE FEATURES OF THAT
SYSTEM FROM THE UNITED NATIONS
TO YOU NAME IT HAVE MADE
POSSIBLE DISCUSSIONS, PEACE
CONFERENCES, THINGS LIKE THAT,
THAT WE HAVE SEE SINCE THEN.
AGAIN, NOT A PERFECT PROCESS BUT
AN ORDERLY WAY OF DOING
BUSINESS.
>>AND 75 YEARS OF PROSPERITY IN
MANY COUNTRIES INCLUDING THE
U.S.
>>BUT MUCH OF THAT SEEMS TO BE
AT RISK OR AT LEAST BEING
ASSAULTED THESE DAYS FOR A
VARIETY OF REASONS.
WE TALK ABOUT THE INCREASING
TENSIONS WITHIN THE GLOBAL
SYSTEM AND THE COARSENESS OF OUR
SOCIETY, HUMAN SOCIETY BROADLY
DEFINED.
AND IT'S NOT WHERE SO MANY OF US
THOUGHT WE WERE GOING TO BE IN
2017.
>>SO I'LL SAY A COUPLE OF
THINGS.
ONE IS THAT I DO FEEL THAT IN
THE WEST PEOPLE HAVE TAKEN A LOT
FOR GRANTED BECAUSE YOUNGER
GENERATIONS, AS YOU SAY, DON'T
REMEMBER WHAT IT WAS LIKE AFTER
WORLD WAR II, OR OBVIOUSLY AFTER
WORLD WAR I.
MANY PEOPLE DON'T REMEMBER THE
VIETNAM WAR ERA EITHER.
AND SO, A LOT IS TAKEN FOR
GRANTED IN THE WEST THAT THIS IS
JUST HOW IT IS.
BUT IT WASN'T ALWAYS LIKE THAT.
WHAT IT REQUIRED WAS TO HAVE
LEADERSHIP THAT ESTABLISH THIS
INTERNATIONAL SYSTEM.
THAT FOUGHT TO MAINTAIN IT, TO
UPHOLD IT.
AND THAT'S WHERE AMERICAN
LEADERSHIP PLAYS A GREAT ROLE.
AND THERE ARE CONCERNS TODAY
ABOUT WHETHER THE SYSTEM WILL
CONTINUE, BECAUSE IT IS UNDER
ASSAULT BY THOSE WHO FEEL THAT
IT HASN'T BENEFITED THEM.
OR BY THOSE WHO DON'T
NECESSARILY UNDERSTAND EXACTLY
WHAT IT REQUIRES TO UPHOLD IT.
IT DIDN'T JUST HAPPEN BY
ACCIDENT AND IT DIDN'T SURVIVE
JUST BECAUSE IT WAS THERE.
IT SURVIVED AND IT WAS
MAINTAINED, AND IT HELPED
COUNTRIES LIKE THE UNITED STATES
PROSPER BECAUSE PEOPLE INVESTED
IN IT AND WORKED TO MAINTAIN IT.
THE OTHER THING THAT I WOULD SAY
IS THAT, 75 YEARS AFTER THAT
INTERNATIONAL SYSTEM WAS SET UP
IN THE WAY IT WAS, IT'S NORMAL
THAT IT SHOULD REQUIRE RENEWAL
OR RETHINKING.
BECAUSE YOU FIX YOUR CAR AFTER A
NUMBER OF YEARS OR YOU REPAINT
YOUR HOUSE AFTER A NUMBER OF
YEARS.
SO THIS INTERNATIONAL SYSTEM
WORKED FOR, HAS WORKED VERY WELL
FOR 60, 70 YEARS.
BUT IT IS DUE FOR AN UPGRADE.
I'M JUST NOT SURE THAT THE WAY
WE'RE APPROACHING THE PROBLEM IS
IN A MEASURED METHODICAL WAY
THAT IS THINKING THROUGH HOW THE
SYSTEM CAN BE UPGRADED.
THERE ARE TOO MANY PEOPLE AND
TOO MANY FORCES AT PLAY THAT
FEEL LIKE THE BEST WAY TO
APPROACH THIS IS TO BRING DOWN
THE WHOLE SYSTEM.
AND I THINK THAT ANGER AGAINST
THE SYSTEM AS THE INTERNATIONAL
GLOBAL ORDER COMES FROM THE FACT
THAT OVER TIME WE'VE SEEN THESE
INEQUALITIES, THE GLOBALIZATION
OF INEQUALITY.
NOT JUST WITHIN COUNTRIES, BUT
ACROSS THE GLOBE AS WELL.
AND SO, WHEREAS YOU SEE
COUNTRIES LIKE CHINA OR OTHER
COUNTRIES IN ASIA RISE RAPIDLY
AND BECOME MORE PROSPEROUS,
COUNTRIES IN THE WEST HAVE
CONTINUED TO GROW BUT NOT AS
QUICKLY.
AND SO THERE IS A SENSE THAT FOR
PEOPLE IN THE WEST THAT THIS IS
COMING AT THEIR EXPENSE.
THAT GLOBALIZATION IS COMING AT
THEIR EXPENSE.
BUT THEY FORGET THAT THEY'VE HAD
THIS STEADY GROWTH OVER THE LAST
75 YEARS AND THAT THIS IS JUST
HOW, IT'S ABOUT SHARING THE
GLOBE AS WELL WITH OTHERS.
BUT THAT'S ALSO WHY WE NEED TO
RETHINK SOME OF THESE STRUCTURES
OR TO SEE HOW WE ADAPT TO A
GLOBE TODAY WHERE THE WEST ISN'T
REALLY IN CONTROL THE WAY IT MAY
HAVE BEEN CONSIDERED TO BE IN
THE PAST.
YOU HAVE TO REMEMBER THAT 85% OF
THE WORLD IS NOT IN WESTERN
COUNTRIES.
AND THAT'S SOMETHING THAT IS
OFTEN FORGOTTEN BY PEOPLE WHO
LIVE IN THE WEST.
>>ABSOLUTELY.
AND I WAS LOOKING AT SOME
PROJECTIONS FOR THE LARGEST
ECONOMIES IN THE WORLD BY THE
MIDDLE OF THE CENTURY AND MANY
OF THOSE WERE NOT WESTERN
COUNTRIES ANYMORE AND CHINA WAS
AT THE TOP.
BUT THE LIST, AND I THINK THE
UNITED STATES WAS PERHAPS THIRD
ON THE LIST.
BUT I DON'T KNOW IF YOU LIKE TO
PLAY THE "WHAT IF?"
GAME, BUT I JUST WONDER WHAT IF
THE RESTRUCTURING THAT FORMER
PRESIDENT MIKHAIL GORBACHEV
PROPOSED IN THE SOVIET UNION HAD
WORKED?
AND THE SOVIET UNION HAD NOT
DISSOLVED AND EASTERN EUROPE HAD
REMAINED UNDER ITS CONTROL.
WOULD WE BE HAVING THESE KINDS
OF CONVERSATIONS TODAY ABOUT
RE-ENERGIZING AND RE-EVALUATING
INTERNATIONAL ORDER, OR WOULD
THE INTERNATIONAL ORDER, AS IT
HAS EXISTED FOR THESE PAST 75
YEARS BE ALL THE MORE IMPORTANT
BECAUSE WE WOULD STILL HAVE THE
EAST-WEST DIVIDE?
>>IT'S AN INTERESTING QUESTION.
IT IS VERY HARD TO PLAY THE
"WHAT IF?"
GAME BECAUSE THERE ARE ALL THESE
DIFFERENT FACTORS THAT YOU MAY
OVERLOOK AS YOU TRY TO COME TO A
CONCLUSION.
WOULD PRESIDENT CLINTON HAVE
BECOME PRESIDENT?
WOULD THE UNITED STATES HAVE
GONE THROUGH A DECADE OR MORE OF
BEING THE SOLE SUPER POWER?
OR AS THE FRENCH DESCRIBED IT,
THE HYPER POWER.
THERE'S SO MANY KNOCK-ON EFFECTS
FROM JUST CONSIDERING THE WHAT
IF ONE THING HAD HAPPENED.
IT'S HARD TO TELL.
YOU COULD ARGUE THAT THE
INTERNATIONAL SYSTEM REMAINS
NECESSARY BECAUSE, OR THE GLOBAL
ORDER OR THE INFRASTRUCTURE
REMAINS NECESSARY TO WORK
THROUGH THE DIFFERENT TIDES OF
POWERS RISING AND DECLINING, OR
EMERGING AND SO ON.
SO I'M NOT SURE.
I PROBABLY NEED A LONG THINKING
SESSION WITH A DRINK TO GO BACK
THROUGH HISTORY AND DECIDE HOW
IT WOULD HAVE UNFOLDED.
BUT I'M VERY PRAGMATIC AND VERY
DOWN TO EARTH IN A WAY.
AND I DON'T ALWAYS LIKE TO PLAY
THE "WHAT IF?"
GAME BECAUSE I THINK THE GAME
THAT NEEDS TO BE PLAYED IS THE
VERY SORT OF FOCUSED, SOLUTION
ORIENTED TO TRY TO ADDRESS WHAT
WE'RE DEALING WITH TODAY.
>>ABSOLUTELY.
SO YOU WERE TALKING ABOUT
GLOBALIZATION AND THE BROAD
CONCEPT OF GLOBALIZATION JUST
SEEMED TO BE AN ACCEPTED FACT OF
LIFE.
AND THEN AFTER 9/11 THERE WERE
SOME SCHOLARS WHO BOLDY DECLARED
THAT GLOBALIZATION WAS OVER, AT
LEAST IN THE WAY WE'VE KNOWN IT.
AND IT TURNS OUT IT WASN'T.
IT CONTINUED TO EVOLVE AFTER A
PERIOD OF TIME AND ADJUSTMENT TO
THE NEW REALITIES IF YOU WILL.
BUT THERE ARE SOME FEATURES OF
THE INTERNATIONAL ORDER THAT I
THINK MOST PEOPLE WOULD SAY ARE
WORTH KEEPING.
EVEN IF THEY'RE REVAMPED,
REORGANIZED, AND SO FORTH.
AND YET, THERE ARE CONVERSATIONS
HAPPENING TODAY. THERE HAVE BEEN
POLITICAL CHANGES IN THIS
COUNTRY AND ELSEWHERE WHERE
PEOPLE SEEM TO BE READY TO MOVE
BEYOND WHAT EXISTED.
AS IF WHAT HAPPENED IN THE PAST
WAS FINE FOR THEM BUT NOW WE
NEED NEW APPROACHES, NEW WAYS OF
THINKING.
HOW IS THAT BEING RECEIVED IN
PLACES, ESPECIALLY THOSE WHERE
PEOPLE STILL VALUE THESE
ELEMENTS OF THE INTERNATIONAL
ORDER?
>>I THINK THAT THERE IS, AS I
JUST MENTIONED, THIS SOMEWHAT
REACTIONARY ATTITUDE TOWARDS THE
IDEA OF GLOBALIZATION IN THE
WEST; IN THE SENSE THAT
GLOBALIZATION HAS COME TO THE
DETRIMENT OF PEOPLE IN THE WEST.
I'M NOT SURE THAT'S FAIR BECAUSE
AS I SAID, TRADE AND THE GLOBAL
WORLD ORDER HAS BENEFITED BOTH
EUROPE AND THE UNITED STATES
TREMENDOUSLY OVER THE LAST FEW
DECADES.
BUT GLOBALIZATION,
COSMOPOLITANISM, THE LIBERAL
GLOBAL ORDER.
THESE HAVE ALL BECOME IN A WAY
DIRTY WORDS FOR SOME POLITICIANS
WHO USE THAT TO RALLY THEIR
SUPPORTERS AROUND THEM.
AND YOU HEAR FOR EXAMPLE THE
FRENCH FAR-RIGHT CANDIDATE TO
THE PRESIDENCY, MARINE LE PEN
SAY, THIS IS A FIGHT BETWEEN
GLOBALISTS AND NATIONALISTS.
BUT YOU COULD ARGUE THAT
FRANCE'S STRENGTH CAN DERIVE
FROM BEING A GLOBALIST AND THAT
YOU CAN BE A PATRIOT AND A
GLOBALIST.
THAT IT DOESN'T HAVE TO BE
MUTUALLY EXCLUSIVE.
AND THE SAME THING APPLIES TO
THE UNITED STATES.
WHERE WOULD THE U.S.
BE WITHOUT TRADE RELATIONS,
WITHOUT ITS ALLIANCES?
WHERE WOULD IT DERIVE ITS POWER
FROM?
HOW WOULD IT BE DIFFERENT FROM
CHINA OR RUSSIA IF IT DIDN'T
HAVE ALL THESE ALLIANCES, ALL
THESE FRIENDS AROUND THE WORLD
THAT IT CAN RELY ON?
THE KINDS OF ALLIANCES THAT
CHINA AND RUSSIA DON'T REALLY
HAVE.
I MEAN THEY CAN COUNT THE NUMBER
OF FRIENDS WHO WOULD COME TO
THEIR RESCUE PROBABLY ON THE
FINGERS OF ONE HAND.
AND SO I THINK IT'S IMPORTANT TO
REFRAME THE DEBATE AND TO
EXPLAIN TO PEOPLE WHAT
GLOBALIZATION ACTUALLY MEANS
BEYOND THE SORT OF, THIS WORD
THAT HAS BECOME A SCAPEGOAT FOR
EVERYTHING THAT IS WRONG IN
SOMEONE'S LIFE.
WITHOUT NECESSARILY, WITHOUT
CERTAINLY IGNORING THAT SOME
PEOPLE ARE HURTING FROM THE
IMPACT OF GLOBALIZATION BECAUSE
OF THE INEQUALITIES THAT IS HAS
CREATED BOTH BETWEEN COUNTRIES
AND WITHIN COUNTRIES.
>>HOW WOULD YOU APPROACH THIS
DEBATE?
WOULD YOU APPROACH IT FROM
INSTITUTION TO INSTITUTION?
IF YOU ARE A NATION STATE THAT
IS THE MEMBER OF SOME REGIONAL
ORGANIZATION WOULD YOU START
THAT CONVERSATION WITHIN THE
GROUP?
OR WOULD YOU...
>>WELL A LOT OF THESE
CONVERSATIONS ARE ALREADY
HAPPENING.
>>SURE.
>>WITHIN THE IMF, WITHIN THE
WORLD BANK, WITH CHINA WANTING A
BIGGER VOTE AT THE U.N.
A LOT OF THINKING GOING THROUGH,
GOING ON ABOUT HOW TO MAKE THIS
INSTITUTION SERVE THE
INTERNATIONAL COMMUNITY IN A WAY
THAT IS MORE ADAPTED TO TODAY.
BUT YOU'LL NOTICE THAT COUNTRIES
ON THE SECURITY COUNCIL; LIKE
RUSSIA AND CHINA DON'T
NECESSARILY WANT TO MAKE THE PIE
BIGGER.
SO THEY MAY NOT BE NECESSARILY
100% HAPPY WITH THE SYSTEM BUT
THEY DON'T NECESSARILY WANT TO
OVERHAUL IT EITHER TO THE
BENEFIT OF OTHERS.
I THINK THAT IN MY ROLE AS A
JOURNALIST, AS A WRITER, I'M NOT
IN POWER.
I'M NOT A POLITICIAN.
I DON'T RUN ANY OF THESE
INSTITUTIONS.
BUT I ALWAYS THINK THAT MY ROLE
AS A WRITER AND AN AUTHOR GOES
BACK INTUITIVELY TO WHAT I
DECIDED MY ROLE HAD TO BE WHEN I
WAS 13 YEARS OLD AND I WANTED TO
BECOME A JOURNALIST.
WHICH IS, THAT TO ALWAYS ENGAGE
IN CONVERSATIONS WITH PEOPLE AND
DO MY BEST TO EXPLAIN TO THEM
HOW THE WORLD WORKS IN A WAY.
IT IS A COMPLEX PLANET THAT WE
LIVE ON BUT THE MORE YOU CAN
ENGAGE IN CONVERSATIONS TO
EXPLAIN HOW DIFFERENT THINGS
WORK, THE EASIER I THINK IT
BECOMES TO GET PEOPLE TO AN
UNDERSTANDING OF WHAT THEY WANT
AND WHAT REALLY BENEFITS THEM.
BECAUSE I THINK THAT VERY OFTEN
PEOPLE MAKE RASH DECISIONS OR
STAND UP AGAINST SOMETHING WHEN
THEY DON'T HAVE ALL THE FACTS TO
MAKE, TO FORM AN OPINION.
>>I KNOW WE DON'T HAVE A WHOLE
LOT OF TIME.
I WAS GOING TO ASK YOU TO NAME
THREE ISSUES THAT YOU CONSIDER,
PERHAPS MOST IMPORTANT, MOST
CRITICAL IN THE WORLD TODAY
THAT NEED TO BE
ADDRESSED, WHERE THE
CONVERSATION NEEDS TO BE
RE-EXAMINED.
BUT MAYBE JUST TALK ABOUT TWO OF
THEM.
>>COMING FROM THE ARAB WORLD I
AM VERY CONCERNED ABOUT WHERE
OUR REGION IS GOING.
WHERE MY REGION IS GOING.
WHERE MY COUNTRY IS GOING.
I THINK THAT WE CAN TALK ABOUT
CLIMATE CHANGE.
WE CAN TALK ABOUT AMERICA'S ROLE
IN THE WORLD.
BUT I THINK THAT THE SYRIAN
CONFLICT IS ONE THAT NEEDS TO BE
ADDRESSED HEAD-ON, VERY QUICKLY,
VERY URGENTLY.
AND I THINK THAT, THAT CANNOT
HAPPEN WITHOUT U.S.
LEADERSHIP AS WELL.
I THINK THAT YOU KNOW, TO NOT BE
ALL ABOUT SORT OF THE GLOBAL
ORDER, BUT I THINK THAT
UNDERSTANDING BETWEEN DIFFERENT
PEOPLE, UNDERSTANDING BETWEEN
DIFFERENT CULTURES IS VERY
IMPORTANT.
AND THAT GOES BACK TO EDUCATION.
I THINK IT'S ESSENTIAL THAT OUR
EDUCATION, WHEREVER WE ARE
PREPARES US FOR BEING GLOBAL
CITIZENS.
BECAUSE WE ARE IN AN
INTERCONNECTED GLOBAL WORLD.
AND IT'S SIMPLY NOT POSSIBLE TO
EXIST ON THIS PANEL, ON THIS
PLANET IN ISOLATION.
AND I THINK WHETHER YOU ARE IN
THE WEST OR WHETHER YOU'RE IN
CHINA, OR WHEREVER YOU ARE,
THERE NEEDS TO BE AN ELEMENT OF
OUR EDUCATION THAT PREPARES US
TO UNDERSTAND HOW THE WORLD IS
PUT TOGETHER.
SO I'D SAY, IN VERY DIFFERENT
CATEGORIES, THE WAR IN SYRIA;
BETTER EDUCATION, AN EDUCATION
FOR ALL OF COURSE.
BUT BETTER EDUCATION THAT HELPS
PEOPLE TO BE CITIZENS OF THE
WORLD.
AND JUST, I KNOW IT SOUNDS
PERHAPS NAIVE AS A SEASONED
JOURNALIST, BUT I DO REALLY
THINK THAT BETTER EDUCATION ALSO
HELPS TO LEAD US TO BETTER
UNDERSTANDING BETWEEN DIFFERENT
CULTURES.
I THINK THAT IS VERY MUCH
LACKING AT THE MOMENT AND I
THINK THAT IT'S VERY IMPORTANT
IF WE WANT TO SHARE THIS PLANET.
>>GREAT.
WELL WE THANK YOU FOR YOUR
THOUGHTS AND FOR JOINING US
TODAY, KIM GHATTAS.
>>THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR HAVING
ME.
IT'S BEEN WONDERFUL TO BE IN
ORLANDO.
>>GREAT.
>>THANK YOU.
>>AND THANK YOU.
FOR GLOBAL PERSPECTIVES, I'M
JOHN BERSIA AND WE'LL SEE YOU
NEXT TIME.
