

### Frequently Asked Questions:

### Divine Truth

### By

### Jesus (AJ Miller)

### & Mary Magdalene (Mary Luck)

### Session 1

Published by

Divine Truth, Australia at Smashwords

http://www.divinetruth.com/

Copyright 2016 Divine Truth

Smashwords Edition, License Notes

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### This ebook is a collection of answers given by Jesus (AJ Miller) on the topic of God's Truth (Divine Truth). The answers were given in an interview with Mary Magdalene (Mary Luck), who posed frequently asked questions from members of the media and public, on 21st August 2013 in Wilkesdale, Queensland, Australia. In this session Jesus answers questions about God's Truth (Divine Truth) such as; what is Divine Truth, how important is it in our lives, are there ways to recognize Divine Truth, belief in 'my own truth' as a concept, personal 'truth' versus God's Truth, and he introduces the clever concept of God's Truth having qualities or attributes that we can use to measure whether something presented to us has the hallmarks of potentially being God's Truth.

### Reminder From Jesus & Mary

### Jesus and Mary would like to remind you that any document produced by Divine Truth containing any information from Jesus, Mary or any other person includes only a portion of God's Truth that they have personally discovered.

### It does not and cannot contain the entire of God's Truth since God's Truth is infinite and humankind will forever continue to discover more of God's Truth as we progress in receiving more of God's Love.

### Please remember that due to these limitations information contained within this document may need to be revised in the future.

### Many other ebooks have been published by Divine Truth, including ebooks translated into a variety of different languages.

### Please visit <http://www.Smashwords.com/profile/view/DivineTruth> or www.divinetruth.com for further information.

### Additional sessions on the subject in this book can be found on www.Smashwords.com/profile/view/DivineTruth

### For more information go to:

Divine Truth (www.divinetruth.com)

Divine Truth Channel on YouTube (www.youtube.com/user/WizardShak)

Divine Truth FAQ Channel on YouTube (www.youtube.com/user/divinetruthfaq)

Table of Contents

0. Introductory comments

1. What is "Divine Truth"?

2. What is the importance of "Divine Truth" in our lives?

3. Are there ways to recognize "Divine Truth"?

4. Is there such a thing as "Absolute" truth?

5. Most people believe in "shades of grey" or "white lies". What do you feel about that?

6. Although most people lie, most people also feel hurt when they find out about others' lies. Why does this happen?

7. What would you classify as "personal truth"?

8. How does "personal truth" differ from Divine Truth?

9. Why is humanity resistive to Divine Truth?

10. What are the qualities and attributes of Divine Truth?

0. Introductory comments

This series of frequently asked questions is about Divine Truth. Divine Truth encompasses so many different questions; I think altogether we've been asked quite a few hundred questions about Divine Truth and about what we mean when we talk about Divine Truth, and so this series of questions is discussing all of these particular things, what myself and Mary mean when we're discussing Divine Truth, but also what other people question about Divine Truth itself and about the organisation that we've created called "Divine Truth," which are all different things really. But this series will answer all of your questions with regard to these particular matters.

You'll find that there are a lot of quite involved questions during this series. It's one of the most important questions that anyone needs to answer I feel, the question "What is Divine Truth?" I think the only thing that we need to answer that is more important is, "What is love?" "What is Divine Love?" and "What is God's Love?" These two series of frequently asked questions will be placed on video over the coming months.

We'd like to welcome you along to this series of questions and hopefully you enjoy the answers that we give on this subject of, "What is Divine Truth?"

1. What is "Divine Truth"?

I feel "What is Divine Truth?" is such an important question to answer. It's the most important question of this series other than the question, "What is Divine Love?" The answer is that Divine Truth is God's Universal Truth. Now that sounds almost religious in its nature but it's not. The reality is that God's Universal Truth is always logical; it is always scientific and always mathematical in its nature. It is always based on the reality, not human reality, not the reality of how we see everything because that's often imaginary rather than reality, but it's the reality of how God sees everything. Divine Truth has a lot of qualities and attributes and through this series we're going to discuss the qualities and attributes of Divine Truth, so rather than me mentioning them now in part of "What is Divine Truth?" let's look at a few of the attributes so that we can understand what it means.

Firstly, one of the attributes of God's Truth is that God's Truth is infinite in its nature. God knows all the truth. Humankind is only ever going to be in this process of discovering truth; we'll keep discovering truth for the rest of our existence and still not find out all the truth. So any book that claims to be the beginning and the end of all of God's Truth is totally illogical, right from the beginning. The Bible itself, claiming to be the end of God's Truth - aside from some comments in Revelation of course; it depends on your interpretation - cannot be logically true because God's Truth cannot be contained in a book. In fact the truth about the human body can't be contained in a book, let alone all of God's Universal Truth being contained within a book.

So we need to understand that Divine Truth is far bigger than most people on this planet and most of humanity imagine. It's even bigger than most people who've passed over into the spirit world imagine. It's going to be a constantly growing and constantly changing thing, because God's Universe is constantly growing and the dimensional existences in God's Universe are constantly changing. There'll always be this discovery of more and more truth and this is fantastic, because it gives us, humanity, this beautiful desire to discover more and be involved in the process of discovering more, knowing full well that in the end we're not going to be able to discover everything. That's what's going to keep our life very interesting and enjoyable all the way through the rest of our existence.

We need to stop seeing truth as a finite thing that once we've found it out that's all we need to know, because that's not how it's going to be in our discovery of God's Truth. Since God is the maker of the universe, God knows all truth about the universe. We as a finite being that God has created have the capacity to discover truth, but we can't expect to know all the truth. God's Truth isn't contained within a man-written book; it's not contained within any individual actually; it has to be something that individuals discover.

And so what you [Mary] and I believe is that Divine Truth is God's Universal Truth, which we have yet to discover fully. In fact, our belief is that we are yet to discover a minute part of that truth, given the fact that we're going to have an infinite existence, and you and I have been existing for only two thousand years, so in terms of that period of time, that tells us that we've found out very little of Divine Truth. When we share Divine Truth with others we're just sharing the things from our personal experience that we have discovered, which we know for certain are God's Universal Truths that can be proven by fact; they are factual. They're not something that is just imaginary or based upon faith alone but rather the reality of experience. They are scientific in nature, are mathematical in nature, logical in nature, but we realise that we have discovered very little of it and this is what we want to share with people. We want to share with people that the discovery of Divine Truth is going to be an everlasting process and we need to understand how to discover Divine Truth in order to discover more and more of it in a more simple manner.

I have discussed before with people in other questions that the way to discover Divine Truth is quite simple, in that we're better off talking to the Creator or finding a method of communication with the Creator in order to discover Truth than we are trying to experiment in order to discover Truth. Most people, when they try to discover truth, experiment; we're trying to do the greatest experiment which is this experiment with God, getting closer and closer to God and therefore discovering the truth that God knows.

**Mary** : By you saying that others tend to experiment, you mean in the classical scientific method, where people create a hypothesis and test the hypothesis.

Using some kind of experiment, usually some apparatus but also based upon what they have had faith in before. In other words, if we look at different methods of experimenting, basically we've gotten a body of what seems to be evidence and then some new person comes along and he discovers a new way of getting evidence. For example, people in history like Galileo discovered new ways of finding evidence and in the analysis of the universe he realised that the Sun did not rotate around the Earth as it appeared, but rather the Earth rotated around the Sun. This of course was a major confrontation to the religious viewpoint of the day, and that means that the religious viewpoint was false and it had to change, because there was a discovery of a new scientific fact. Whenever a new scientific fact is discovered, that is God's Truth and therefore whatever we believe eventually has to conform to it.

**Mary** : Okay, I want to just clarify this point, that you keep saying, "It's scientific in nature." What you're meaning there is that it's scientifically provable, it exists in reality and it's not a matter of conjecture or interpretation?

Yes. Exactly!

**Mary** : So God's Truth is always like that.

God's Truth is always like that. Just because a human cannot prove it given their current belief system, it doesn't mean it's not provable. For example, once we die, once we pass and become a spirit, we have a lot more of the universe available for our testing abilities, in our experimentation, and as a result a lot of the things we believed when we were on Earth now expand into new beliefs, because we see through our personal experience a whole heap of new things happening.

This is where humans have got to be very careful what they do when it comes to discovering truth. Most people on earth basically don't believe anything they cannot see and I feel this is a very foolish thing to do because there are so many things we cannot see. We cannot see the basic building blocks of atomic structure with our human eyes for example, and yet eventually we get to see them through a process, through the discovery of apparatus whereby we can test these particular things. It's exactly the same with regard to things about the spirit world. Things that we have personally experienced can be proven; you just need the right apparatus, you just need to know all of their the backgrounds.

This is where I feel the majority of people don't understand the truth about God's Truth. Everything is provable. God's always wanting to share everything about the universe with us; it's just whether we're willing to go through the process of being humble to what we don't know.

**Mary** : Yes, and I suppose within that, when you're saying things are scientific and mathematical, basically what I glean from that is that everything in God's Truth is governed by a set of logical laws. So even if we don't know it, it still exists and there are processes that we can engage that will involve logic and understanding, a certain set of laws which will lead us to truth.

... and which would lead us to mathematical justification of that particular logic and truth, and scientific justification of that particular logic and truth.

**Mary** : I suppose a lot of people would say that some things are scientifically proven. People might say it's scientifically proven that you don't have a soul.

That is not the case at all and in fact, I think probably nobody would claim that.

**Mary** : Probably a bad example, but I suppose what I'm trying to discuss with you is that there are some things on Earth that people believe have been proven to be false.

See, I don't know about that. I feel that there are some people who believe those particular things are proven to be false, but universally there are some things that the whole of the Earth has now accepted as true and very few people accept as false. For example, that the Earth is a sphere is now an accepted truth on the majority of the planet. There are very few people now associated with any type of discovery of anything going on with the planet itself, that believe that the Earth is still flat. There are some people that do still, there is in fact still a Flat Earth Society but they are very, very much on the outer when it comes to scientific evidence.

Generally in the discovery of truth, there's a process and that is, first nobody knows it, then one person knows it, then a few people know it and then eventually the whole scientific community knows it. Then it's taught over generations to the whole world; that's generally the process. Once the whole world knows it, then it's very, very hard to shift it if it is actually wrong. For example, in terms of religious studies, for thousands of years there was this belief that the Earth was flat; the Bible and most Holy Books mention the circle of the Earth but more, there was this religious viewpoint that they wanted everything to revolve around the Earth. And we know that's not the case; the universe doesn't revolve around the Earth at all. The Earth is just a tiny little speck in the universe. We've discovered that through the discovery of apparatus where we can measure those particular things. This is the case with all of God's Truth; we discover more and more ways of finding out the actual truth. Initially there's one person who comes along and says, "This is the truth," and everybody laughs at them. Historically they've been put in jail; historically they've even been murdered for saying something that the general population doesn't agree with. Eventually, the truth will always win. Eventually the whole population accepts those truths, no matter what happened historically.

**Mary** : So would you say that that's another quality of God's Truth?

Of course. The truth doesn't conform to humankind's ideas or concepts. In fact humans will have to bring their concepts into harmony with all of God's Truth, sooner or later. So yes, that's one of the qualities of Divine Truth. Divine Truth does not compromise with regard to human concepts; it doesn't try to conform itself to the ideas and belief systems of humanity. In fact it's quite opposite to that. God is never going to conform the universe to humanity's concept of it; we need to discover it.

Most scientists understand that. Most scientists who are looking at the universe have a good understanding of this basic principle that we need to go out and discover what's there. Most religious people don't have a good concept of that; most religious people have a very, very fixed idea about what is in the universe and they are very opposed, due to their religious belief systems, to discovering new scientific facts. Often it has been religion that has opposed the discovery of God's Truth, ironically. So there is religion stating to the world that they are the people who know everything about God's Truth, and yet they have been the very people who have been opposed to the discovery of new scientific truth, which is God's Truth. I find it quite ironic in some ways that often it's religion that has actually been against the discovery of Divine Truth, God's Truth. I find it interesting that when I talk about God's Truth, most scientific people generally have a problem, because most of them do not believe in a God, and yet ironically, I have exactly the same philosophy that they have in terms of the discovery of truth, with one exception and that is, I believe there is a creator who knows all truth. I not only believe, I know for certain through my personal interaction with that creator.

**Mary** : And you also mentioned earlier that you have a different process in experimenting in that you would go directly to God.

Yes, and then confirm those particular things through my personal experience of course, as a scientist would with regard to the discovery of what you would call physical facts. I do the same with all facts, spiritual, physical, love, emotional, everything, all kinds of facts; they are all a part of God's Truth. There are laws that govern the flow of emotion for example, between one person and another. There are actual physical laws that govern those particular things; they are God's Truths. There are physical laws that govern the physical universe; there are physical laws that govern what we refer to as the spirit world, which is really just other dimensional existences. There's mathematics that defines them, physical laws that govern them. There are the physical laws that govern the unification of the soul. The physical process of two halves of the soul coming together is all governed by universal law, scientific in nature, logical and mathematical in its basis.

All of these things have the underlying premise that God knows reality and in the end we're all going to discover that reality sooner or later. If we spend all of our time discovering that reality by experimentation without God, well that's fine, eventually we'll arrive at some truth. But I'm suggesting that if you do it with God, you'll arrive at the truth much more rapidly and you'll arrive at much greater truths more rapidly as well. But that's the only difference between myself and a person who has a scientific background.

**Mary** : And finally, would you say that all of Divine Truth is actually loving?

Always. All Divine Truth, all of God's Universe has been created around loving principles. God's Truth is always loving. A lot of people on earth don't believe that of course and that's one difference between personal truth and Divine Truth. But God's Truth is always loving, it's always based on facts, it's always based on logic, but it's always got entwined with it this emotion of love that flows throughout every single law. In fact, once you understand love, you understand the laws far better, as to why they've been created, how they work. In terms of the discovery of new laws, it's much easier to discover new laws once you understand that all of the laws are based around love.

2. What is the importance of "Divine Truth" in our lives?

This is a great question I feel, and the answer is, "It's of extreme importance in our life." There is only one thing more important in our life and the only reason why this one thing is more important, is that it affects our happiness and our emotions, and that's love. The only thing more important than truth is love. But truth opens the doorway to love; it opens the doorway to understanding how love interacts with things, how love is involved in the universe, how love is involved in creation and how love is involved in every law. So it's truth that lets us understand everything and as such, it becomes extremely important not only for happiness in our current existence but for everything that's going to happen to us in our future.

It is also important in every aspect of life that we can think about, right the way through from the time of our conception to - who knows what happens? - in terms of our future. It is also important in every different type of thing that we can be interested in. There is little point for example, in studying the medical profession if you don't understand the truth, if you're told a heap of false things in the medical profession. For example, two hundred years ago they used to bleed people when they were sick, thinking that would help them get better. Of course it doesn't, we know that now because we've discovered more truth. If you don't know the truth in any single profession, you are in danger of harming not only yourself but also every single person around you and the universe in which we live.

So knowing the truth is wonderful for helping us understand how everything works and also to reduce the amount of pain and suffering that occurs in our life. In the end, pain and suffering is all a result of people not knowing the truth, or not feeling the truth. So Divine Truth is so essential in those areas as well. Then, if you look at the different areas of life like the medical profession, the political state of the earth, the environmental state of the earth, the state of each country, what's going on in terms of religion and all these other aspects, the pain and suffering that results in all of these areas is a complete result of us not understanding all the truth about it.

**Mary** : How does Divine Truth prevent us from the danger of being harmed and why does it create such a happy life?

Well, Divine Truth creates a number of things obviously. Firstly, because we know the truth we are not going to take actions that are out of harmony with that truth. This means that we're not going to take actions that are out of harmony with love; remember we said that Divine Truth is in harmony with love. The beauty of doing that is that we will never feel pain and suffering if we do that. All the pain and suffering that occurs on this planet is the direct result of not knowing enough Divine Truth. That's the truth, that is one single truth about this beautiful Divine Truth or God's Truths that we know. Humankind has tried for some centuries to be without God's Truth. As a result of that we've had much pain and suffering. This pain and suffering is the direct result of our inability to understand all of God's Truths. If we understood of all God's Truths we would have less pain and suffering and that applies to every single walk of life.

It's a bit like, for example, if we were planning a trip from Earth to the moon and we didn't know the truth of gravity then we'd be in a lot of trouble. There's a high likelihood we'd die trying if we didn't understand the laws that are involved with gravity, even the laws that involve the computation of the gravitational acceleration that surrounds the earth and the gravitational acceleration that surrounds the moon. If we didn't understand those particular laws and mathematics then we would have next to no chance of arriving at the moon in such a way as to actually then be able to return to earth. The fact is that historically - what was it, 1969 it first occurred? – there had to be huge numbers of laws, physical laws, that mankind could describe mathematically, in order for someone to safely go from here to the moon and back again.

Now that's a physical matter. If we look at a medical matter we can see historically many times physicians did things that were way out of harmony with love, but also way out of harmony with what we now know to be true. As a result they had a negative effect rather than a positive effect on the people they were trying to help. That also applies to the political system and the religious system. If we look at the religious system that we live in currently for example, we can see that in most religions there is this viewpoint that only the people in those religions will be saved. This particular statement, which is an untruth, causes huge numbers of believers and non-believers to get into conflict with each other all the time. As a result even wars have occurred historically, where millions of people have died as a direct result of this particular belief. Obviously the belief is false. However most people of Christian or other religions don't believe it's false; they believe it's true. As a result of believing something's true that is actually false, they have now engaged an action which has caused pain and suffering to other people and themselves. This is the direct result of every time we're out of harmony with God's Truth; pain and suffering will be the result. The beauty of Divine Truth is that it brings freedom from pain and suffering, not more pain and suffering.

**Mary** : Is that why you said that when we know truth we will act in harmony with it? Is it because we know the truth that acting in disharmony with God's Truth will cause pain and suffering?

Of course. It will cause us pain and suffering physically, potentially. It will also, and this is something that most people on earth don't understand, cause us pain and suffering emotionally. It will also cause us pain and suffering spiritually. It will cause pain and suffering in every aspect of our life if we don't know the truth. When I don't know the truth about love, I will have pain and suffering in my love life. If I don't know truth about religion, I will have pain and suffering or create pain and suffering in my religious life. If I don't know truth about spirituality, I will create pain and suffering that is spiritual in its nature that will have an emotional impact upon me. If I don't know the truth about the physical universe, whatever I choose to do I will generally, if I don't act in harmony with what I know to be true or I haven't discovered the truth yet, I will create pain and suffering physically. This is the natural consequence of not understanding all of God's Truths.

So I feel it is imperative, firstly to understand some very, very basic truths about our physical existence, next about our emotional existence and then about our spiritual existence. And if we do not understand these particular truths, we are going to have pain and suffering, we are going to have emotional trauma, which later on we're going to have to address if we're ever going to be happy. This is one of the consequences of not knowing Divine Truth. Divine Truth, knowing it in your life, is essential for your future everlasting happiness, so why would you avoid its discovery, given the fact that it's so essential for your life?

**Mary** : What about how it relates to our relationship with God?

Well, obviously God's Truth relates to everything, not just to our relationship with God. In the beginning we might not even believe there is a God and God's Truth will eventually illuminate that particular aspect of itself, if we are willing to go through a process of experimentation in order to discover whether that is the truth or not. I'm not saying that we need to guess what the truth is; we still need to go through experiments, but we have the option of firstly going through experiments about whether God exists. Once we have determined the truth about that particular subject, then it becomes much easier to determine the truth about every other subject because if God doesn't exist then we have to do our personal experiments. If God does exist then, if there's a way to communicate with that God that does exist, it would make sense that we communicate with that God who does exist and therefore be able to receive truths about the universe that that God has created.

Now I'm not suggesting that a person has to believe that right up-front, but what I am suggesting is that sooner or later, as we've found from our own experience, if they take those experiments they will come to the conclusions that the experiments enforce. And that is, sooner or later they will come to the conclusion that God does exist. It's much easier to ask God what going on with God's Universe then it is to try and discover the infinite number of things that are going on in the universe, without God. That's what I'm suggesting.

I don't feel that we need to get too hung up on the fact about belief in God when we're discovering universal truth. We need to understand that there is an absolute truth about everything. Once we understand that there is an absolute truth about everything, we can then do experiments in order to discover it. The key is to not limit those experiments in any direction, until we have discovered certain truths. It's almost like saying to a scientist, "Look, I want you to find the cure to cancer but you're not allowed to do any experimentation on a living organism, you're not allowed to do any experimentation, you know, communicate with God because we don't believe in God and you're not allowed to do any communication with spirits who might be able to tell you the answer because we don't believe in spirits and you're not allowed to use any chemical that might be adverse in its nature towards the human body and you're not allowed... and we make a heap of these rules, it's almost like every rule is tying someone's arms behind their back and tying their legs up and then you say, "Now go and do an experiment," as if that's going to work. This is the unfortunate thing about what we do.

I feel that the only thing we need to do when it comes to these experiments is ask ourselves, "What is loving?" That needs to be the only limitation that we place on any experimentation. If we place limitations of love on the experimentation we will eventually find the truth very rapidly. If we don't place limitations of love on the experimentation, we will still eventually find the truth, but it will be with more pain and suffering because every time we act out of harmony with love there is always more pain and suffering. So I would recommend to people to experiment in harmony with love in order to discover more truth. But understand this truth: God's Truth is so important to the rest of your existence that it needs to be of primary focus in your life. Forget chasing the next thing, like the next fastest car and the next new technological advance; these things are very minor in comparison to discovering more and more of God's Truth because it is the discovery of God's Truth that is going to lead you to a happy and universally growing infinite existence, if you decide to go down that track. I feel it's such an essential part of a person's future life.

**Mary** : So then just to summarise the different things that you've said about the importance of Divine Truth in our lives, basically you're saying that it's what leads us to have an ever-expanding curiosity and desire to discover things.

Yes, therefore a passion for life. If we knew everything after a while, and we decided not to create anything as a part of that or we couldn't create anything but we knew everything, after a while we'd start wondering what there is to do, unless there were some new emotional experiences. And this is what Divine Truth allows us to do because God's Truth is always expanding and it's infinite in its nature; we are always going to be discovering more and be more fascinated. As a result of that we will have a very interesting life.

**Mary** : So we're going to have a happy life and an interesting life if we understand God's Truth and that it will free us.

... from what I would view as the bondage of slavery. When I talk about slavery, I'm not talking about slavery in terms of a human being enslaved by another human. I'm talking about slavery to false beliefs. That is our biggest slavery here on the planet. We have constructed a myriad, millions in fact, of false beliefs, some religious, some scientific, some of all kinds of natures. They are beliefs; they're not facts yet, and yet we've turned them into what we believe to be fact and in doing so we have become enslaved by our own ideas and concepts. If we are progressing towards Divine Truth we don't do that. Divine Truth creates freedom. It doesn't create slavery to false beliefs and ideas; it doesn't create slavery to the history of mankind. It is forward-looking and not reverse looking, it doesn't try to fit everything into the past; it tries to construct a new future.

**Mary** : That's exciting, yes. And I suppose the final thing is that it's only God's Truth that allows us to receive God's Love, isn't it?

Of course. Without God's Truth or a desire for it we're never going to be able to receive Divine Love. If we don't know the truth about God's existence, for example, and do not know the truth about what experiments we can undertake, then it's going to be very, very hard for us to eventually receive God's Love. In the end our own personal soul's ability to expand beyond its original creation is completely dependent upon understanding Divine Truth, understanding God's Truth. It's so essential in every aspect of a person's life; that's why it's been our primary fascination for two thousand years. We're not interested in much else actually, as people find out when they start talking to us! Although we have a lot of passions and desires and interests in all sorts of things, in the end our primary interest, and it's much, much higher than any other interest, is our interest in discovering more truth, more Divine Truth, more of God's Truth.

3. Are there ways to recognize "Divine Truth"?

Definitely! Divine Truth has definite ways of recognizing it. Divine Truth has attributes and characteristics, and while there are many hundreds of these attributes and characteristics, you could probably list fifteen to twenty of them. I think that's probably what we need to do in these sessions, to list fifteen or twenty of the attributes and characteristics and then discuss those attributes and characteristics about how they define God's Truth. The reason we need to know that it has attributes and characteristics is that we need to recognise Divine Truth versus human truth. We need to see the difference because they are not the same thing. Divine Truth has certain attributes and characteristics that are not contained in our own personal truth or in humanity-created truth. Once we understand the flavour, if you like, of Divine Truth, then we have this beautiful ability to recognise it whenever it appears in our life, because it always has a unique type of attribute and characteristic and quality that human truth doesn't have.

**Mary** : So it's sort of like a benchmark or a filter that we can test new ideas through.

Yes, and they are very simple filters that are logical to understand. That's the thing that I find very interesting; people on earth believe that it's so difficult to discover God's Truth but the reality is that all of God's Truths have a certain flavour to them, they have certain attributes and characteristics that are not present in humanity-created truth. Once you examine a lot of the religious truth on the planet through the eyes of these particular attributes and qualities, you can dismiss much of it because you can see immediately that it can't be true, just through some logical statements, it cannot be true in fact. Once we analyse some of the different flavours of the qualities of Divine Truth you can see there's emotion involved and everything. There are a lot of different things involved in the flavours and attributes and characteristics of God's Truth.

I quite often liken it to it being almost like a dish, I suppose you could say, a meal that you're having. Now some meals that people create are pretty terrible actually, they're almost inedible and we find that particularly when we're a vegan because people give us things and go, "I don't know how you can eat that" and we go, "I don't know how we can eat that either!" (Laughs)

**Mary:** Or "How you can think that this is what we usually eat?" (Laughs)

Because there's no flavour; there's a certain flavour once you start to create with spices and all these different things. Now it's the same with regard to God's Truth versus human truth. God's Truth has all these unique types of flavours and spices to it, if you like, or what I would classify as attributes and characteristics, or attributes and qualities, that you can in fact list and apply to each human-created truth to determine whether it's a part of God's Truth or not. Once you have that list of attributes and qualities of truth, which are all logical and easy to understand, you can then look at the human-created truth, the human ideas that people say are truth but are often not truth and you can apply each attribute and characteristic to it.

When we apply those attributes and characteristics we can see, "No, it doesn't fit." It doesn't fit the mould, if you like, of what God's Truth is all about, because each of God's Truths has certain attributes and characteristics. And so I feel it's very, very important to have a discussion about what the attributes and characteristics of Divine Truth are. If people can understand them and see how they can apply them in their personal life they'll be able to quickly identify truth, in comparison to always floundering around in the darkness, not knowing. There are so many things that people on Earth want to believe are true, but once you apply a few of these characteristics to what they want to believe you can see that they cannot be truth for very, very simple reasons.

If you think about it, these attributes and characteristics then become some of the most important things you could ever understand and apply. This is where I feel a lot of people who have heard Divine Truth for years, they've listened to our presentations, listened to the different explanations of different things, they still do not understand these basic characteristics of Divine Truth, the basic attributes of it. As a result they still ask a lot of questions they don't need to ask anymore. Once you completely understand the attributes and characteristics of Divine Truth, there are only a few questions you have to ask in order to determine whether something can be true or not, and that is wonderful because it helps you to filter out all of the ideas and concepts of humanity, of which there are millions of books written; you're able to filter all that out and work out which bits are worth even listening to, based on the attributes and characteristics of Divine Truth.

I think that's a wonderful thing and if a person who is studying Divine Truth just did that, they would have amazing changes in their personal life, they'd have amazing changes in their understanding of the Universe around them, they'd also have amazing changes within their soul that would start to occur as a result of just understanding these basic attributes and qualities and having a grasp of them from an emotional perspective. They'd have to have both a logical or intellectual and emotional understanding of these particular qualities and attributes. Once that happens it's very, very hard to feed them an un-truth, to feed them an error and for them to actually go along with it, because every error that comes along they can go, "Does this match that? Does this match that quality? Does this match that quality?" And you only really need fifteen or twenty of these qualities or attributes of Divine Truth to know whether something's right or wrong, right from the beginning. Whether it invites more of your investigation or whether you can dismiss it almost immediately is determined by whether it matches some of these very basic qualities of God's Truth.

**Mary** : Great. Well we'll have to discuss them in later questions.

Yes. In fact if people refer to the later sessions that we have on Divine Truth they'll see we'll list each quality - and the qualities are not exhaustive, the attributes are not exhaustive, we're not creating an exhaustive list because there are many things that we could add to it - but if we list fifteen or sixteen primary ones and show how the person can apply that to all sorts of issues in their day-to-day life, they'll get an understanding. Once they have that understanding it's very easy to determine truth after that.

4. Is there such a thing as "Absolute" truth?

**Mary** : Most people believe that there is no such thing as "Absolute" truth. Each person has their own opinion or their own version of the truth. We often hear people saying things like, "That's your truth; it's not my truth." What would you say in response to statements like this?

I would say that all of those statements are false actually. (Laughs) There is such a thing as absolute truth. Now, I find it quite remarkable that people try to assume that there's not; if you look at the very things upon which our lives in a modern environment are dependent, every single thing is dependent upon an absolute truth. For example, when I fly from here to the other side of Australia, I am putting my life in the hands of a number of discovered absolute truths. I'm putting my life in the discovery of an absolute truth regarding aerodynamics. I'm putting my life in the discovery of the laws of aerodynamics and that the people who are flying understand those laws and the people who designed my plane understand those laws – because if they don't the plane's going to fall out of the sky. I'm putting my very trust in it.

I find it remarkable that almost everybody on the planet accepts that when it comes to physical laws, there is an absolute truth. For example, there is an absolute truth about the law of gravity, there is an absolute truth about law of aerodynamics, there is an absolute truth about some of the laws of physics that they've discovered, the laws of acceleration, calculation of speed, all of these things. We have devices that are completely based around these laws. We have GPS units that flick a signal back to a satellite and back down, to tell us exactly where we are, and those GPS units can be made because of the law that man has discovered. These are devices that are all based upon absolute truth, they're all based on the absolute truth of physical-based laws of the universe that God has created: God's Truths. They're all based on God's Truths.

I find it interesting though that when it comes to emotional issues and soul-based issues and feelings and experiences, everyone then throws out that fact. They throw out the fact that there is an absolute truth about everything. They then go, "Oh, but that's my personal experience," and what I'm suggesting to them is, "No, you have your personal experience I agree, but that doesn't make it the truth. God's Truth is that God can see your personal experience and knows the exact reason why your personal experience is actually occurring, given all of the laws of the universe, right at this particular point or moment in time. That being the case, God knows the absolute truth of why and what is happening in your life right now. This then also makes your life completely predictable to God, in other words, God knows every single law, laws that we're yet to discover, laws that we do not know God knows, because God created them all. God knows every single thing that governs your particular life right now. A law even governs the level of your own happiness actually. And we don't believe that.

We believe it with physical things; when it comes to GPS units and computers and satellites and navigation and all these physical matters we believe it then. And then for some reason, and I still don't really understand what it is because it's not what I do personally, but for some reason most of humanity throws out that fact when it comes to their emotional life, when it comes to their general happiness and wellbeing, when it comes to what is happening on the Earth itself, the pain and suffering that's existing on the Earth itself. They don't believe that that's got anything to do with law. But it does; it's got everything to do with the fact that we don't know the absolute truth, God's Truth, about those particular things and we need to discover it, as soon as we possibly can, in order to reduce the pain and suffering that we're in.

**Mary** : If we use a practical example of that, going on what you spoke about earlier, about the importance of Divine Truth in our lives where you said that it actually leads to less pain and suffering and more happiness and harmony, if you and I have an interaction where there's a disagreement and I say, "Well you attacked me" and you say, "Well you attacked me" and, "That's your truth" and "That's my truth", "Whatever..." what you're really saying is, there is an absolute truth about what went on?

Exactly!

**Mary** : Neither of us might actually understand.

Neither of us might know it, but God does.

**Mary** : But God does. And then implicit in that you're sort of saying that we can discover it.

Yes, because there are laws involved in it.

**Mary** : And if we do discover it, there will be more happiness.

Of course.

**Mary** : So wouldn't the reason why people don't want to happen upon this truth and want to hold onto this idea of "I've got my truth and you've got your truth," isn't it just about fear and a lack of humility; not wanting to face certain things about ourselves? Or others?

Of course I understand the emotional reasons why a person would choose such an action. There are all sorts of emotional reasons, literally millions of emotional reasons why unfortunately, because of their background and how they've been brought up and how their attitude is to life and whether they're in rebellion or whether they're in acceptance, all sorts of different emotions would cause them to throw out these facts. But even with all those emotions, it doesn't make sense to throw out this one fact. When it comes to physical things we know there are laws that create an absolute truth and we make our very lives dependent upon them in fact. When I place myself in the hands of a pilot, I am making my very life dependent upon somebody's understanding of absolute truth, God's Truth.

Why is it then, that I don't apply that to my emotional life, my soul-based life? I feel that the only reason why we don't, is that we don't wish to see that all of these emotional things that we feel are also governed by laws, are also governed by facts, are also governed by facts that are not under our current understanding, that we can discover. We don't want to do that. And yet we have completely the opposite attitude to the physical facts. There is one primary reason why we have that different attitude and that is, with the physical facts we usually have little emotional investment in them. When it comes to the emotional facts and happiness and all these other factual soul-based parts of our life, we have huge emotional investments in holding on to our current positions.

That's what causes us to throw out the logic. We throw away the logical thought, "If there are physical laws that govern my physical existence, then there must be laws that govern my love-based existence, there must be laws that govern my spiritual existence, there must be laws that govern my emotional existence. All I need to do is what I do with my physical existence and using those same particular things, apply them to these other parts of my existence. In other words, I've got a large desire to find out all of the physical laws, why don't I have a large desire to discover all of the emotional laws? And why don't I have a large desire to discover all of the spiritual laws? It makes no sense logically, because logically when I discover the physical laws my life gets better, it's more interesting, it's more fascinating, it becomes more economical, I can go to places around the world in less time, I can have a larger experience, I have more happiness generally, I often have more engagement, not all the time but it depends – all those things happen when I discover more physical laws. Logically, the same thing would apply if I discover my emotional laws; all those things would happen to a greater extent. And if I discovered spiritual laws all of the same things would happen to an even greater extent. Logically that would make sense and yet people throw away the concept that absolute truth exists emotionally and spiritually. They only believe absolute truth exists physically, and I find that remarkable.

What I'm suggesting is that absolute truth does not only exist physically, it exists emotionally, spiritually; it exists in every facet of our life. God has made laws that we can discover that are absolute truths about our life and how we live our life. This is the most fascinating thing about our life; it's not just governed by these physical laws, it's governed by all these other laws that we don't know and most of the people on Earth have yet to discover. And yet if we engage them, just as when we engage our physical laws everything becomes happier and more experiential and we have a greater, more fulfilling existence generally, so too we will find when we discover the laws involved in our emotional and spiritual wellbeing, it will have an even greater effect on our personal happiness and existence.

I feel that's the thing for people to understand; I feel there's a large amount of illogical reasoning when it comes to law. We seem to reason logically when it comes to the physical laws but when it comes to the spiritual and emotional laws we throw them all out the window and we say, "Oh, that's my truth," not thinking that because each physical law has a God's Truth element, has a universal, absolute truth element to it that eventually every person on Earth has to accept if we're going to engage that law, so too does every emotional and spiritual law have a God's Truth to it, an absolute truth, an element that we all will need to come to see at some point that is true. And eventually we will if we engage the process.

5. Most people believe in "shades of grey" or "white lies". What do you feel about that?

Well, I can see from a human perspective that people believe in shades of grey; you know that there are things that are black and there are things that are white and then there are a lot of things in between. They don't like people who are "black and white" generally, in terms of the way in which they analyse situations. They'd like people to have these shades of grey, or the feeling of compromise I suppose, is what it encourages. With regard to white lies, that's what white lies do too, it encourages compromise on the truth. God never compromises on truth. God's Truths are fixed and immovable, we can't change them and in fact God never wishes to and God has actually created them in such a way that they cannot be changed. They can only be embraced or ignored, but they can't be changed.

Now on Earth we often want to change truth. If we look at history, that's why we now call it "his-story" don't we, rather than "history", because it's somebody's story, which has usually been changed from the actual facts about what actually occurred. There is very little desire even in most personal relationships for the individuals in each relationship to actually discover the truth about themselves and about their partner. There are many people currently in relationships, who don't want to know if their partner's cheated on them for example, because they don't want to deal with the pain and suffering that it might expose.

My feelings are, if we really, really understand this element or quality of Divine Truth, that it's fixed or immovable, we will see that truth is black and white; there is no shade of grey from God's perspective. God knows that it is what it is and nothing can change that. Rather than try to reason that there's all these shades, we need to see that whenever we're thinking or feeling in shades of grey with regard to truth, we are out of harmony with one aspect of Divine Truth, one aspect of one quality of Divine Truth and that is, that it's immovable. Once we discover the actual truth, all the shades of grey disappear and we only have light. We only have the light of truth shone on that particular subject; we know exactly what it is after that point. So any person who in their personal life believes that shades of grey and that white lies are fine, I suggest to them that they don't understand a quality of absolute truth and that is, absolute truth is always "black and white" as the saying goes. There is always the absolute truth and only the absolute truth; it is fixed, immovable, nothing can change it and unless you want that, you're going to keep thinking that everything's shades of grey and as a result of the shades of grey you're going to have pain and suffering that comes along from your not accepting that the absolute truth is fixed and immovable.

**Mary** : And also from what you've said in previous answers, the absolute truth actually brings less pain and suffering.

Of course, if we practice it. We can work against it but if we practice it, live in harmony with it, it will always bring less pain and suffering.

**Mary** : Yes, and so when most people say, "I told a white lie to save that person's feelings", basically to save pain and suffering, that's an avoidance of God's Truth about that subject.

It's also an avoidance of pain and suffering. (Smiles) Because what happens is that God's Truth will always expose an error. Pain and suffering comes from the errors, not from the truth. It's only when the error exists within a person on some subject, their believing something that's not true, once they come to accept the truth it's going to lead to pain and suffering, not because of the truth itself but because of the error they believed, that they had to let go of. For example, if I believe that my partner is faithful and yet she's not, then I will have pain and suffering as a result of the belief of the error that I have. The truth is, in that moment she is not; she has not been and once I come to accept the truth I will actually have less pain and suffering. I will understand what's been going on in my relationship better, I'll understand that I didn't have as close a relationship with the person as I believed I had, I'll understand the reasons why, there are all sorts of new things I can discover by accepting this fact.

**Mary** : Yes, so you're saying that we actually use white lies to avoid pain and suffering, but it's more about...

We use white lies to avoid our own pain and suffering, always. In fact we use the whole concept of shades of grey to avoid our own pain and suffering of coming to a consciousness of our own error. Every time we come to a consciousness of our own error there will be pain and suffering; once we let go of it, it'll be gone. Once we're living completely in harmony with truth, there will be no pain and suffering anymore because we now have the complete truth. For example, people often ask me, "What happens with regard to trust?" Well, I know whom to trust because I can feel, through the truth, who is willing to compromise the truth. People who are willing to compromise truth, I know that I can't trust them; it's as simple as that. And so when somebody comes up to me wanting to be trusted and I know they cannot be trusted because they're willing to compromise truth, I don't trust them. Then, when they do something that might be negative towards me or bad, I don't also feel disappointed because I know that they were going to do that, given their condition. That's because I understand there's absolute truth and then there's the people who are out of harmony with absolute truth.

People who are out of harmony with absolute truth will always be unable to be trusted on those particular subjects in which they're out of harmony with truth. You can't trust them, that's the truth, (laughs) because they don't understand this basic, fundamental principle that once you become completely in harmony with truth then everything is able to be assessed, everything is able to be examined. It shines the light on everything and that's why often in the Bible there's the concept that truth is like a light, showing the way. And it is; it's like having a flashlight in a darkened room. Truth is like that. It exposes what's in the room, and without it you don't have exposed what is in the room. It's fantastic to expose what's in the room because then you know where everything is, what the situation is, what you can trust, what you can't trust, where you can go, what you can't do, what you can do; you know everything.

**Mary** : You can make better choices based on truth, whereas if everyone comes to the room with all of their white lies and nobody wants to expose any truth...

Which means there's no light in the room, there's all shades of grey everywhere and all of the chairs, tables and all the other things that are in the room can be tripped over, fallen over, ripped upon, hit against. Potentially you could die in the room, (laughs) if you didn't know what was in the room, and you ran into some corner and hit a corner (motions to his forehead) or something in the wrong spot. But once you have the light of truth in that room, now your existence is much safer, it is much easier, you have much more freedom, and you have much more understanding. You can also have much more compassion; there's a heap of emotions now that you can have.

I would encourage people to always gravitate towards truth. Instead of going back to the white lies and going back to the shades of grey, always understand that truth is like a bright light that keeps getting brighter, because it's going to be infinitely expanding, it's going to keep getting brighter, it's like a bright light that keeps getting brighter as your days progress, if you like. And therefore you see more, you understand more, you know what to do more, you understand how to exercise your free will inside of that truth now, in a manner that is not going to create pain and suffering for yourself or other people.

**Mary** : We might use white lies to avoid truth in the short term, but ultimately things will become more painful.

Exactly. It's like turning off the flashlight in a room full of things. Why would you want to do that? You're only going to end up tripping over a lot of it, which is what people finish up doing.

Another reason why I feel people do this thing of having white lies or wanting to believe in shades of grey and so forth is that they are constantly in fear, in the end, of truth. They're afraid of truth. Logically there is no good reason to be afraid of truth. If there's anything to be afraid of it's error, not truth. There's no logical, good reason for being afraid of truth. Truth is only going to help you in your life; it's not going to harm you. I don't understand, when I say I don't understand, from a logical perspective there is really no good reason for rejecting truth. From an emotional reason, there are millions of reasons why a person might reject truth, but all of that is just an avoidance of a specific emotion. So the main reason why people avoid truth of course is that they are avoiding a specific emotion that exposing the error would create in them, that's all they're trying to avoid.

I find that's quite sad. We find a lot of people are very afraid of Divine Truth for that reason. They're very afraid of coming along to a seminar for that reason, very afraid of what might get exposed. They don't even talk to us, you and me, as you know, because they're afraid of what AJ might say or Jesus might say to them. I feel that the majority of people who are afraid of what I might say to them have an illogical viewpoint with regard to truth. It makes no sense to be afraid of someone giving you a light and exposing the world around you, the room in which you live. And yet I find quite remarkable, the opposite often occurs. We're not afraid of the people who want us to remain in darkness; at the same time we're afraid of somebody who wants to give us a light.

Obviously God is always attempting to give us the light of God's Truth, the light of absolute truth in our lives every single moment. And so if we honour that, we will not revert to the 'shades of grey' thinking or the 'white lies' thinking; we will want to honour the fact that it's only the truth that is going to make our life easier. It's only the truth that is going to result in our freedom.

6. Although most people lie, most people also feel hurt when they find out about others' lies. Why does this happen?

Well, built into our soul is this affinity to truth. There is this feeling inside of the majority of people that as far as it affects their own absorption of experience, they would like to have truth told to them. When we're lied to, we often become very hurt as a result. The hurt, of course, is not because of the truth that is now exposed but is because the lie has been exposed and it's a betrayal of truth that we're feeling. There is this quality or attribute existing in our own human soul, that at some level we want to hear the truth; in fact even the most accomplished liar becomes very, very upset when they're lied to, which is an indication of their own hypocrisy in the end, but they are very afraid of having lies told to them.

The reason we are afraid of having lies told to us and then having them exposed is that in the end we do have at the core of our existence an understanding that lies result in a more difficult existence, that anything that's false or in error will mean that we'll have more pain and suffering in future once it's exposed. The majority of us know at some level that the right thing to do is to focus on telling the truth. We know that because of the personal pain we experience when somebody doesn't tell us the truth, that's how we know it. We can see that when somebody doesn't tell us the truth and we find out, we feel hurt; we feel pain as a result, which is a direct result of the error being exposed.

**Mary** : Let's just break that down a little bit, because you said a lot of "exposed" and a lot of "error" and a lot of "truth" and a lot of "love" and it can get very... you need to be very intellectually engaged with what you just said. (Both laugh)

Well, the thing I find interesting about all these conversations is that most people find it difficult to follow them not because they are incapable of intellectual engagement, but because they are not capable of logically, emotionally understanding. The reason they're not is that they have internal, emotional justification for the error which exists within them and as a result they are resistive to hearing a truth. This means that they are not open logically; logically they will find it difficult to understand things.

**Mary** : When we have an emotional investment in avoiding something this makes us illogical or it creates an investment in discarding logic.

In our own lack of logic, yes it does.

**Mary** : But just to be clear about the cause of pain, when somebody lies... Say you lied to me and then I discovered the lie, you're saying to me that the pain is not because I now know the truth. Say you said, "I'm wearing red socks today" and I discovered you're wearing blue socks; then the pain wouldn't be that you're wearing red socks; it's that you told me you were wearing blue instead of red.

In other words I lied to you, which is a betrayal. The pain is a result of betrayal, a feeling, an emotion.

**Mary** : I might be lying to you every minute of every day, yet when I discover you lied to me, I feel pain.

That's hypocrisy. (Both laugh)

**Mary** : Basically this question is saying that almost everyone's a hypocrite because most people lie and most people feel sadness when they discover others have lied.

Yes, and this is an indication of the lack of ethics that exists on the planet. If we were ethically motivated we would understand, "If I lie regularly in my life then it would make sense that everyone around me is probably doing the same thing. And also, if I allow myself to lie then surely, ethically I should also allow everyone else to lie to me." Now the fact that I don't means that I am unethical. If I am willing to allow myself to get away with a lie, while at the same time want the lies of others to be punished, then I'm unethical and therefore I'm not in harmony with truth at all. I need to choose what I want to do. Do I want to tell the truth myself? If so, I can expect everybody else around me to tell the truth from a pure point on ethics.

By the way, once I know the truth, I won't expect everyone around me to tell the truth because I'll know when they're lying (laughs) and I'll know why they're lying and I'll understand the underlying emotional motivations for their lies. I'll understand all of it and therefore I won't automatically believe everything I hear, because I'll be sensitive to all of those things once I am in connection with the truth myself. But I would not allow myself to lie, knowing that it could harm another person. Allowing yourself to lie is like turning off the light in a room; everyone's going to trip over all the things in the room after that point. Sooner or later that's what happens. When we allow ourselves to tell the truth on all occasions it's like turning on the light in a room; everyone can now see what the problem is and therefore has the ability and chance to do something about it.

**Mary** : So basically you're saying that we often lie but we feel hurt when others lie and that's for two reasons: our souls are designed to be more attuned to truth, and presumably we lie because we just want to avoid some pain that the truth might expose.

Yes. The sad thing is, we see the truth as being the cause of the pain but it's not the truth that's the cause of the pain. For example, if somebody told you the truth, "your husband doesn't cheat on you" and that was the truth, wouldn't you be happy about that? Of course you'd be happy about that. But if they told you the 'truth,' "your husband doesn't cheat on you" and later on you found out that he did and that they knew that he did, you'd be very, very hurt would you not?

So the reality is, most of the time we justify the lie as a way of avoiding pain. But it doesn't avoid pain, it doesn't, it's only the truth that allows us to avoid pain, when we live in harmony with it. When we live out of harmony with it then of course it causes pain. But it's only the truth that can allow us to live in harmony with truth and therefore have freedom without pain. I feel that there's a big misunderstanding on the planet; there's this whole thing, "The truth hurts." No, lies hurt, truth doesn't hurt.

**Mary** : I suppose there's that other thing that perhaps we haven't fully explained, that pain already exists within us and our investment in lying comes from wanting to avoid that pain.

It's the protection of our own pain that already exists.

**Mary** : Yes, so the truth is only, as you said, shining a light on something that's already there.

And God's Truth is going to shine the biggest light.

**Mary** : (Laughs) It's the floodlight.

It's like a floodlight; it's like the light of day, the sun being shone on a problem. That's the beauty of it; it shows you everything, the things that you can correct but also the things that are good. It shows you everything, and that's why we need to have a much stronger love of it than we do on the planet at the moment. If we look at our own individual lives, the majority of us are still afraid of receiving truth. There's a difference between being attacked and receiving truth, obviously. If a person's just attacking us and telling us that we look bad and all of this, that's not being truthful at all. The truth is that they're angry and bitter and want to hurt us, that's the truth. But when a person is sincerely interested in truth, it can help our life immensely.

7. What would you classify as "personal truth"?

Well, personal truth has attributes and characteristics just as Divine Truth has characteristics and attributes. Obviously the attributes of personal truth are very, very different to the attributes of Divine Truth. Let's say that Divine Truth is God's Truth or absolute in nature. Personal truth often varies from day-to-day, so it has this, "One day I feel this way and the next day I feel that way," like, "Yesterday I thought you didn't love me, today I think you do." Personal truth varies quite markedly and is often not correct at all. It is just a personal opinion, often not backed up by facts, not backed up by logic, not backed up by science, not backed up by mathematics, not backed up by reality. Often it's imagination that we determine as personal truth. That's one characteristic of personal truth; personal truth is very, very different to God's Truth in that God's Truth is absolute, is scientific, is mathematical, is backed up by facts, is reality. Obviously the difference between the two is quite large and so when a person says, "This is my truth," I go, "Yes, you have no understanding yet of the difference between absolute truth and your truth. And when you hold onto your truth as hard as you do, you are often preventing yourself from discovering Divine Truth, God's Truth, as a result."

**Mary** : Just to clarify, would you say that personal truth is something that at the moment I emotionally accept to be truth and it may be completely in error from God's perspective, or it may hold parts of the truth from God's perspective, or it may be completely in harmony with God's Truth.

Totally. Yes.

**Mary** : It's just something that I think is true right now.

Exactly. It's just a personal opinion basically. It's a personal opinion not necessarily backed up by facts, by logic, by scientific accuracy or mathematical accuracy, not backed up by our reality even; it can even be something that somebody imagines to be true. It might and oftentimes is, not backed up by personal experience. In other words, oftentimes a person will say, "Oh, did you know, over in Bali this particular thing happened?" This is something that happened with my mother a few weeks ago, "Over in Bali, this is the kind of thing that happens." I said to mum, "Have you ever been to Bali?" She says, "No." I said, "So how do you know it happens?" (Both laugh). All you're doing is believing the media, which often lies. You know from my own experience that they've lied about everything so why would you then believe the media is not lying or telling part-truths about that particular thing? You've not been there; it's not been a part of your personal experience so how would you know?" One thing that's very, very different as well is that Divine Truth can be experienced; personal truth is often just an imaginary experience or something that has not even happened. It's just been given to you or said to you or implied to you, and you have then made suppositions or assumptions about it.

**Mary** : So you're saying personal truth can actually come from fears within us.

It can come from all sorts of sources, yes.

**Mary** : Something that's a lie from God's perspective can actually be the start of what we believe is God's Truth.

Yes. Let's give a few examples of that. Look at a truth that the majority of Christians and the majority of other religious forms - but let's look at the majority of Christians. There's about one and a half billion Christians on the planet and the majority of them believe in a particular fundamental truth that's not a truth at all. They believe that God is going to come and destroy the wicked. That's what they hope will happen and they want to have happen and some of them fear it happening, but it's not going to happen because it's not God's Truth. It's only what they want to believe. They have no evidence that it's going to happen, they even have no evidence that it has happened in the past. There is no evidence that it happens in day-to-day life, because just as many Christians and non-Christians die. So they have no evidence that it happens in day-to-day life and yet they want to believe that it happens. This is an example of something that a lot of people believe is a truth and yet there is no scientific evidence to support it, there's no mathematical evidence to support it, there's no evidence in experience to support it, there's no evidence in reality to support it, there's only evidence in written matter that could have been fabricated, and even that doesn't provide very good evidence because a lot of good people died too.

So there is actually no evidence to support this fundamental belief that the 1.5 billion Christians on the planet have; there's no scientific evidence to support it. So why do they believe it? They believe it because there are emotional reasons why they wish to believe it; that's what personal truth does. Personal truth has as its basis, a heap of flawed emotional foundations that determine what you're willing to accept as truth and what you're willing to reject as truth, as error. In fact a lot of the things that are actually true get rejected as error in that place; a lot of things that are actually true get ignored, as error in that place. That's a terrible fact about personal truth, so-called "personal truth" and I say "truth" in quotation marks because it's not true.

Now we can also see that we have a lot of these fundamental things going on in day-to-day life. The way the average parent brings up their child is fundamentally flawed. We have the evidence of that in humanity's pain, in that most people who become adults need some psychological help to get over some of the fundamental flaws that have occurred in their childhood. But that parent believes that it is acting in harmony with its personal truth. The parent is choosing to act in a certain way towards its child, which later on the child grows up and feels is in error, and if the parent had any connection with Divine Truth they'd easily see that it's in error. But because they have an underlying experience of their own, and underlying emotions they do not wish to feel, they bring up the child in a manner that is fundamentally flawed. We see it in all sorts of aspects of life; I've brought up a religious, a personal, a family based, a relationship aspect. We see it happening in the medical profession, the scientific profession, the political walks of life, the religious areas – many more examples could be brought up; we have it in the way in which we govern our entire nations, we have it in environmental aspects on the earth where all of us want to believe something which is often not true at all. That's our personal truth. Personal truth is generally fundamentally flawed and unless it's brought into harmony with God's Truth, it will remain so.

**Mary** : Why is it fundamentally flawed on the planet right now?

Because it makes one big fundamental assumption and that is, that you're God. Basically that's the assumption that a person in personal truth, or thinks they have the personal truth of something, makes. Basically what they're saying is that they know certain things better than anybody else, but only God knows better than anyone else, that's the reality. So once we become humble and we realise that only God knows better than anyone else, we then start to see that wherever we're at personally, we are in progress, we are in a process of progression; we could say we are in training. Once we understand that, we would not automatically assume that our personal truth is the actual fundamental, absolute truth of the universe on any particular subject. We would see that we have to discover new things in every area, that's what we would see. And it would only be through the experience of millions of people perhaps, just as it is in our physical life, that we would actually come to accept certain truths.

In our physical life for example, we've come to accept the truth that we can fly, because millions of people do it every day, safely. So we've now come to accept that there are these laws of aerodynamics that govern flight, and as a result we now live by them and we accept them. All of us who have ever flown have accepted them; whether we've understood them or not we've actually come to accept the fundamental truth that flight is possible in a controlled manner. Now this is where we need to go in all aspects of our life. We need to see that at some point our concept of the universe is going to need to change in order to accept absolute truth, whatever God knows is the absolute truth. And God knows the absolute truth about everything; everything that we could consider and think of, God already knows the truth about. Since that is the case, our personal truth is a fundamental flaw right from the beginning because we believe we're already God on that subject and that's physically impossible.

So I feel we need to give up this concept of, "This is my truth." "This is what I believe to be true" is probably a far more accurate statement. "This is what I believe to be true at this point" is even more accurate because it's now actually at a point in time that we're identifying. Tomorrow we might feel differently. Or we could say, "at this point in time, this is my personal opinion," because that's all it is. Once we discover Divine Truth on a certain matter though, we can always prove it scientifically, we can always prove it accurately, we can always support it with real evidence and experience. There are certain things in your and my life, for example, where we can state, "These are definitely fundamental, absolute truths about God and God's Universe," because we've experienced them.

But when somebody asks me a question about the future, I haven't experienced it yet. It's impossible for me to relay with any accuracy about the future. I might have feelings about the future, I might have opinions about the future, which I'm willing to share if they're asking, but that doesn't mean they are God's Truths because I have not experienced them yet. It's fundamentally flawed to assume that I can make a prophecy about the future and be accurate. To do that I have to be God and I'm certainly not God. This is another indication of the problem with personal truth, personal opinion, it needs to be changed. We need to not hold onto it so strongly. Every time we have these personal opinions we need to understand, "This is just my personal opinion. If you can show me something different I'd be happy to listen to what you've got to say."

**Mary** : Great. Okay, so then just to summarise everything that you said about personal truth, often it's an error from God's perspective and usually it's based on fear. If we don't have God's perspective then we're usually in a state of fear.

Well, fear is an automatic result of not knowing truth. It's like, how do you feel when you're in a dark room in comparison to a light room? If somebody told you there were all these possible things that could go wrong in this dark room that you're in, like - this is the world we live in actually. The world we live in - there are huge amounts of things that could possibly go wrong, and if we're in the dark about everything they probably will! It's like walking down a road in the dark with no torch and there's no moon, no light, no anything, you're going to be doing this (motions feeling around with his arms extended at shoulder level) aren't you, as you're walking along, feeling for things. If you're walking along when it's bright sunlight you don't need to do that. So you're automatically in more fear when you're in darkness.

**Mary** : Yes, sure. Okay, so error from God's perspective is based on fear and it usually begins because of something that we want to believe in, so we hold onto it; this is our investment in holding onto it.

It's more about emotions for most of us. We want to believe in certain things because we emotionally can't cope with an alternative. This is why some people believe in God in fact. Some people believe in God because emotionally they can't cope with the alternative. That's not why I believe in God, but that's why some people believe in God. Some people don't believe in God because emotionally they can't cope with the alternative, as well. Some people believe in all sorts of things; they believe that their wife loves them, because they can't emotionally cope with the alternative. A lot of the time we construct belief systems around what we can cope with emotionally.

**Mary** : Or what we think we can cope with emotionally.

Exactly. It's not even what we can cope with emotionally, it's what we believe we can cope with emotionally which is often also flawed. God created us to cope with far more emotionally than the average person copes with. The sad thing is that almost all of our belief systems are personal truth are about what we can cope with emotionally or what we hope emotionally. It's got nothing to do with reality or logic.

**Mary** : So can we talk then about this idea that personal truth has an emotional signature? Because that's really what you're starting to talk about now. What does it mean that it has an emotional signature? That it's something that's painful to release if it's in error?

Well it might not be painful; there might be pleasure associated with it as well, or potential pleasure. If I believe a certain thing, I feel good, if I don't believe it I feel bad - that kind of thinking. Now I suggest that these are usually the underlying reasons why we have any faith in personal truth. It's because we say, "I can cope emotionally with these kinds of beliefs, I can't cope emotionally with these kinds of beliefs. So I'm going to make out those beliefs are false and make out those beliefs that I can cope with emotionally are true."

For example, many Christians cannot cope emotionally with the belief that God will not come and destroy the wicked. Emotionally they can't handle even that concept. They can't handle the concept that God is going to allow wickedness for as long as it takes for mankind to realise that they can change. Most people who are Christian cannot cope with the concept that God will allow it. God is allowing it; we have proof. Every day we have proof that God's allowing wickedness, every moment we have proof. It's a fundamental proof in opposition to many of the other beliefs, it's a fundamental thing we can actually prove through personal experience, that God does allow wickedness. And yet, the average Christian cannot cope with that fundamental proof and so they hope differently. They create a belief that God is going to destroy the wicked and then they hope in that. Sometimes they even revert to being God's tool of getting rid of the wicked. Not God's real tool, but they believe themselves to be God's messenger of truth by destroying somebody who they believe is wicked. There are many people historically who were Christian, who have gone to war and murdered many thousands of people just because of what they believed was the truth because they couldn't cope with the fact that it wasn't true. And this is where I feel there is a huge emotional investment; this is the emotional signature, if you like, that is within people. There are huge emotional investments in believing certain things to be true that are not.

**Mary** : My own mother has the feeling, has the "personal truth" (motions quotation marks with her hands as she says the words) that you're a really bad guy because she can't face the reality that she's behaved badly and I've made a choice about that. She's more confronted with that idea than just believing that you're a bad guy.

Yes, and people do this all the time. It is a fundamental problem with humanity at the moment in terms of our lack of logic. We are constantly throwing out what is often staring us right in the face, it's right there, we can see it clear as day, but we throw it out because we can't emotionally cope with it and so we don't believe it.

**Mary** : Or we tell ourselves we can't emotionally cope with it, but God has a truth that we can.

That's what I'm saying. Yes, the truth is that God created us to emotionally cope with everything. But we don't believe that of course, we believe that the pain involved in coping with it is going to be too great for our ability to feel it, and so we choose to not feel it and instead create an alter-reality. We create a life based on imagination; we imagine something to be truth that's not. And this happens individually, it happens in relationships, it happens in society, it happens in nations and it happens in the world constantly.

Many times the wars of this world, particularly the wars we've observed in the last hundred years, have been caused by the imagination of people who don't want to face a different reality. It's very interesting how these things have occurred. People who got into power, such as Hitler and Stalin and these kinds of people, who eventually killed millions and millions of people through their own actions, many of them got into power because of the fears of people and what they could emotionally face. Both in Hitler's case in Germany and in England, what they could emotionally face allowed a whole set of circumstances to occur that eventually resulted in a war. Because they couldn't emotionally face certain things, for example, the pain of the previous war for the German people, and for the English people the concept that if you take away people's rights from them, sooner or later they will rebel, and they will do all sorts of things when they rebel, in harmony with their emotions, not in harmony with what's right.

And so we see that most of humanity's problems have actually been caused not by knowing the truth but rather by holding onto the emotional signatures of what we believe to be truth though it's actually error.

**Mary** : So holding onto personal truth that's in disharmony with love has actually created all of the pain and suffering.

Exactly. If all of us individually decided to bring our lives into harmony with absolute truth, there would be no war; there would be no pain and suffering. Even if we decide to not bring our lives in harmony with love, just truth, there would be no war, because we'd understand logically the truth that if I hurt you, then somebody who was hurt by me hurting you is probably going to want to hurt me; that's logical. I don't even need to understand love to understand that. And yet we don't face that, because we're so emotional we just want to exorcise our pain by harming someone that's attached to your life because you've harmed me. What drove us? Not logic. What's driven us is our own emotional signature of pain and suffering that we're avoiding, and therefore our personal truth drove us. Now I wouldn't call that God's Truth, because if we're in harmony with God's Truth we'd see the absolute truth that if I harm your family or you, someone in your family is probably going to feel at least like harming me or someone in my family; surely that's going to happen.

Now we might do that on a national basis; if you happen to be Iraq and I happen to be USA, if I decide to harm you Iraq, then someone in Iraq is going to want to finish up harming me, USA. It makes total logical sense and yet very few people understand it from a logical perspective or truth-based perspective, let alone an emotional one. This is where I see that if we understood truth better, even if we hadn't come to love yet, this world that we lived in would be completely different.

**Mary** : Yes. Okay, great.

And can I also say that the average person who believes in this whole concept of personal truth, is fully willing to justify their own poor behaviour towards others, because they don't see it from God's Truth's perspective. So I see this whole concept of personal truth as a very damaging concept on the planet, in the sense that it causes huge amounts of pain and suffering because each person's in a different set of personal truths, which are not truths at all but rather just opinions based upon their own emotional suffering.

**Mary** : Yes, very true.

8. How does "personal truth" differ from Divine Truth?

Well obviously, just as personal truth has characteristics and attributes, so too does God's Truth. We can go through and discuss the attributes of personal truth, or what seemingly are the attributes of personal truth, and contrast them with some of these attributes and characteristics of God's Truth. I've listed there for you some attributes of God's Truth, so maybe if you could name the attributes of God's Truth and then we can have a discussion about what personal truth looks like in comparison to that oftentimes.

**Mary:** Great, okay. One of the aspects of God's Truth is that it's God's knowledge and it's absolute fact.

Yes. As we've already mentioned, personal truth is my personal knowledge and therefore not absolute fact, it's just my personal opinion. (Laughs)

**Mary:** Okay, God's Truth is God's experience and the sum total of all experiences of all of God's creatures.

Yes, whereas my personal truth is my own experience and generally nobody else's. I have the ability, of course, to examine other people's experiences and learn from those. But most people don't do that very well, most people look at everybody else's experience and go, "That's them; if I do that same thing it'll be different." (Laughs) And it turns out the same, you know; we often do that. So we're often ignorant of even examining other people's personal experiences.

**Mary:** Okay, God's Truth is what universally, actually is.

Yes. My truth is what only is for me (laughs) and doesn't have any impact upon what universally is.

**Mary:** Do you mean by that, it's what I want to believe?

Yes, it's what I want to believe about what happened to me, not what actually is. Often what I interpret happened for me is very different to what God's viewpoint of what actually happened is.

**Mary:** Yes. Okay, God's Truth expands personal life.

Personal truth usually contracts it. Usually, once we start to believe certain things ourselves, our life becomes smaller because of all these fears that we engage and it's like a prison of our own making. However God's Truth, as you pointed out, expands in its nature. It causes us to be free of the bars; we have freedom instead.

**Mary:** And that's probably the next one we could talk about, that God's Truth results in freedom.

Yes, whereas personal truth results in slavery. Literally oftentimes, but also figuratively from an emotional perspective, we're often enslaved to our concepts and ideas and beliefs that severely limit our life and the lives of people around us. If you look at personal truth regarding religion, it has resulted in religious concepts that have enslaved humanity for centuries and sometimes millennia. And sometimes we haven't gotten out of it without having a revolution. Scientific truth has been rejected over and over again by religion. This is an example of how personal truth has enslaved humanity, right down to large groups of people being enslaved.

**Mary:** God's Truth is only pleasurable and is always in harmony with universal truth.

Yes. Our personal truth – often painful. Once we come to see what's gone on with ourselves, what we believed to be true in the past and then God's Truth exposes something, we feel the pain of it. We also don't understand that a lot of the pain that we have right now is because we are holding onto our personal truth rather than God's. We don't understand that even our experience right now is painful because of our holding onto personal opinions that are not true.

**Mary:** I suppose all the way through this you're speaking about personal truth when it's out of alignment with God's Truth.

Yes. Obviously a person can bring their personal truth into harmony with God's Truth, but I wouldn't call that personal truth anymore, that's just me living in harmony with God's Truth, what I now know to be God's Truth. I can't call it my truth because God created it; it's God's Truth. Every form of personal truth I see as an error, because once we bring ourselves into harmony with God's Truth, we've now brought ourselves into God's Truth and not into personal truth. We are now personally living God's Truth, if you like, which means we're personally living in God's reality, we're actually now living in the reality of the universe rather than the imaginary universe we created through our personal opinions.

**Mary:** Which is an amazing thing to consider isn't it, to live in the real world; what it means to live in the real world.

People think this is the real world! This isn't the real world, this is the world that is the figment of our imagination that we've created as a personal reality but it's not God's reality. God's reality is that if we lived in harmony with all of God's Truth we'd have a very different world, a very different life and a very different being, very different personal feelings, very different joy than we currently have, collectively and individually.

**Mary:** Okay, so moving on, with God's Truth there is always more to learn.

Yes, because God's infinite in nature, God's universe is infinite in nature, ever expanding. When I say that, I mean the multi-dimensional universes. There are more and more of them being created and therefore the universe is ever-expanding. As a result of that there's more to learn, there's more truth to know. As a result of that it's going to be limitless. Human truth is completely the opposite; we want to believe that all of the truths about God are contained in The Bible; the average Christian wants to believe that. The average Muslim of course wants to believe they're contained within the Quran and the average other person wants to believe all sorts of things. The average atheist wants to believe that it's in creation. But the reality is that these personal truths are all in error in fact.

**Mary:** So personal truth leads us to feel that there's no more to learn.

Exactly. It causes us to believe that we have nothing more to know on a certain subject. I read a scientific journal a few years ago in which this scientist postulated this idea or concept that he believed that mankind had discovered all of the scientific facts or the majority of the scientific facts that we were ever going to discover. And I'm going, "What! How could you believe such a thing?" We've barely scraped the surface of what we can discover, and yet somebody wants to believe we've discovered everything. This is how limiting personal truth is, this belief that we already know, and it's really arrogance, it's really an emotion of arrogance.

**Mary:** All right. With God's Truth there is no compromise, ever.

Exactly, personal truth compromises all the time, depending on the situation. If I'm talking to my wife I'm in a different situation than if I'm talking to my mates down the pub and that's a different situation than when I'm talking to my children. These are three conversations that I might have in the same day about the same thing: my child comes up and says, "Daddy, are you going to leave Mummy?" "No, no, no I'm not going to leave Mummy. No, we're going to stay together and you're going to have a happy life." Next conversation with his wife, "I'm going to leave you... You know I'm going to leave you." So now he has compromised right, what he would do. He goes down to his mates and says, "Oh my wife, she's terrible." (Laughs) There are all sorts of things that happen within the course of a day where somebody compromises the truth. They don't say the same thing to their child, the same thing to their wife, the same thing to their mates, the same thing at work, the same thing at school, the same thing in their social life, the same thing to their family, the same thing to their friends, because they compromise on every issue. Now why do they compromise on every issue? There's an emotional reason why in every case. There's an emotional fear present in every case. God's Truth doesn't do that; God's Truth doesn't compromise with anybody, with anything, ever. Eternally.

**Mary:** God's Truth always acts in harmony with God's Love.

Yes, and this is something I feel most people don't understand either, that truth and love are like brothers, they're hand in hand. Without truth, love can't exist, and without love truth really can't exist either. The beauty of universal truth is that it is always in harmony with God's definition of love as well, it's always based on love. Now if you look at a human condition, we can often yell and scream and pull somebody down telling them the truth. Now God doesn't do that. God is not trying to destroy us while God's telling us truth; God's trying to expose things to us to help us. There's a whole different attitude from God than there is from humanity with regard to truth. Often people's personal truth is wanting to tear down, destroy, rebel and all of those kinds of things which are all anti-love. They're very, very different qualities to what God's Truth has.

**Mary:** Okay. God's Truth seeks full resolution.

Yes. Something about God and God's Universe that most people don't understand is that God wants to share the truth with us completely. In other words, God wants us to discover everything there is to know. God knows that God's created an infinite universe of course, so God knows that we won't fully discover everything, but God wants us to. There's a different attitude.

**Mary:** There's a door open.

There's constantly a door open to discover more. With people on earth it's very, very different; people with their personal truth. They're often very closed about what they want you to discover. They'll tell you one thing, won't tell you another. They'll openly disclose some things if it's in their best interest, but if it's in someone else's interest and not their own, they won't tell you. This is the compromise that people make, frequently. They don't want to share everything; they only want to share what's in their own interest.

**Mary:** I suppose some people fear conflict don't they, they feel that they're going to create conflict by sharing more, so they seek peace rather than resolving things really.

Exactly. God's Truth is such that, like in the case of a husband and wife for example, God's Truth is, God wants the husband and wife to resolve all of their problems and get to a point where their love binds them without any problems, without any pain and suffering. Humanity, in the same situation often goes, okay, I'll tolerate a certain amount of pain and suffering because I don't really want to take this to full resolution. This is a problem with us on earth; our personal truth dictates that there's certain... we realise that if we take it to full resolution that might mean leaving. Or my taking it to full resolution might mean I have to change on something I don't want to change on. So I decide to not take it to full resolution. God's Truth never does that; God's Truth always wants to go to full resolution of a problem.

**Mary:** It's such a loving provision isn't it.

Of course.

**Mary:** God's Truth never controls or forces others.

Yes. The beauty of God's Truth is that it has this characteristic that it's never going to force you to come to that truth. It's waiting for you to develop a desire to discover it. It's not, through any form of punishment, through any form of destruction or control, through any form of manipulation, going to try to get you to have that opinion. If you contrast that to the average religion on the planet you can see there's a huge difference between what God's Truth does and what their truth does. From humanity's perspective, from a personal truth perspective, most of the time a person who has a certain belief or a certain opinion wants to force that opinion on another. They want to make the other person have the same opinion. They'll even manipulate the other person into the same opinion. They'll even falsify information in order that the other person has the same opinion, not realising that it's not a real opinion. They'll do all sorts of things in order to get somebody else to believe the same thing.

Historically, religions have gone on crusades to force whole populations to believe the same thing, that's how strongly invested we are emotionally in walking away from God's Truth. Now God has this beautiful feeling towards all of humanity, this gift of free will and this gift says, I am not going to force you to recognise my truth. God, who knows all truth, doesn't force any of us to know that truth. Now if we were copying that, we would never have a war about truth, we would never have a war about personal opinion, we'd never have a war about anything probably, if we just copied that one thing, because we wouldn't be trying to force another person to do anything. That's what God's Truth does; it doesn't force another person to do anything.

**Mary:** Even our interpersonal discussions would have much less emotional charge to them, wouldn't they?

Of course. We wouldn't be arguing and fighting and bickering, because we'd realise that every single opinion that we hold right now, unless it's been a full personal experience, we know for certain that it can't be certain. That's the one thing I know for certain, that it's not certain, that it's not yet validated by the experience of knowing everything about my personal experience. In other words, it's not yet validated by knowing God's Truth about my experience.

**Mary:** Yes. Okay, God's Truth can never be modified, even if no one accepts it.

Yes. A beautiful thing about God's Truth too is that there are things right now that not a single person in the universe in which God's created, knows. But that doesn't change the fact that those things are true. Just because one person doesn't know it, doesn't mean it's not true. And just because a million people think they know something, it doesn't mean it's true, doesn't mean it's false. Do you understand what I'm saying? This is the beautiful thing about God's Truth. Because it's so fixed and immovable, it doesn't matter how many people believe it to be wrong, it's still going to be right. And it doesn't matter how many people believe that it's right, it's still going to be right. It doesn't matter if nobody believes it's right, it's still going to be right because that's the nature of it. The nature of it is that it exists as truth whether we know it as truth or not. Humanity is going to discover things in the future, even in the near future, that they never knew before, never. And they'll go, "Oh, isn't this amazing, it's a miracle!" or whatever it is. It won't be any of those things; it'll just be another one of God's Truths that they didn't know beforehand.

**Mary:** If we contrast that with personal truth, how does that differ?

Well, if you look at the situation with most people and personal truth, they have this underlying belief that it's okay to have all of these different opinions and that if more than one person believes it then it's highly likely to be true. If nobody believes it yet then it's highly likely it's false. In other words, it's very much governed by whether other people agree. That is just fear of disagreement, fear of disapproval, that causes us to have that opinion. But on this planet it's very, very popular; you see it happening all around the world at different times. Whole nations act upon what is error because a whole lot of them collectively believe that it's true, not because they've personally analysed it and know that it's true, but because everybody else does. They do it because everybody else agrees. A lot of time people go along with things that everybody else agrees to, and if they sat down and thought about it, they wouldn't personally agree. The only reason they're going along with it is that they are willing to compromise God's Truth, because they're afraid. That occurs very frequently.

**Mary:** So personal truth's is often modified to make it more acceptable to others.

Usually modified. I see this happening a lot in discussions with people. The power of God's Truth is that it's not modified, so you say it as it is, "This is how it is," you can't modify because that's how it is. But people want to embellish it somehow; they think that by embellishing God's Truth you're somehow going to make it more palatable or more able to be heard by the listener. That's not true; it makes it less able to be heard by the listener, it makes it less powerful. Every time you modify God's Truth and try to turn it into something it's not, you're making it harder for the person. It's like getting a torch and turning it off, that's the problem with it. Remember, if you think of the torch as being God's Truth, turning it off is what we do.

**Mary:**... with it, personal truth, yes. Okay, God's Truth acts courageously.

Yes. God's Truth always stands by itself; it doesn't compromise with regard to itself. If we look at personal truth, it often compromises; it often has cowardice associated with it. In other words, we believe something to be true but when there's a person wanting to kill us because of it we go, "No, it's not true anymore."

**Mary:** Yes, we're more harmonious with fear in that case.

Of course, and it's not even that severe most of the time. Most of the time I'll change my mind if somebody doesn't like me because of it. You don't even have to be threatened with death or anything. A lot of times it's, "You don't like me. I'll change my mind." That's the way it is for the majority of people on the planet when it comes to their personal truth. They'll change their mind at the drop of a hat given how much pressure they're under. We've had that happen a lot, where people have said to us, "Ah, we support what you're doing and everything," and then the instant we come under attack by the media or something else, they no longer support what we're doing. And nothing's changed from our perspective, it's just that they compromise; they have cowardice when it comes to truth. God's Truth's not like that. Once God's Truth is in your soul, you do not compromise like that. There's always courage and it's fixed and immovable. You can't compromise on it, because you know it's true, for certain. The reason we compromise on personal stuff is that we don't know for certain that it's true, that's the problem! Or we are governed by a lot of very fear-based emotions, so even when we know for certain it is true, we're willing to compromise that because we're worried about what other people will do to us.

**Mary:** Okay. God's Truth feels only love for people who do not agree with God's Truth.

Yes. The truth is that God's Love is for all people; therefore, even for people who don't believe in God, for people who don't believe in God's Truth, God still loves. Human's truth is very different to that; most people only love the people who agree with them. You look at families, this even happens in families; the family will only love you while you agree with the family-based opinions. As soon as you disagree with the family-based opinions, they don't love you anymore. They act like they don't love you, they'll even hurt you, they'll even attack you, because you don't fit the mould. All these types of honour killings are like that; they are an extreme example of how a family is all of a sudden willing to compromise love for the sake of a belief that is untrue.

God's Love loves in all situations, whether the person believes or not, whether the person understands or not, whether the person is angry, bitter, twisted murderous, rapist, whatever. God's Love loves in all situations. That's what God's Love does, but personal truth generally doesn't do that. Personal truth compromises in almost every situation, for all different reasons.

**Mary:** Okay, this next one's interesting. God's Truth rejoices in positive change.

Yes. The way God's constructed the universe is very interesting and one of the attributes of God's Truth is that whenever we shift and we absorb more Divine Truth, God's Truth, it causes a change within the individual. God's Universe is constructed to change; everything in the universe is changing at all times. Everything in the universe from a multi-dimensional space is changing all the time; there are consistent creations of new dimensional existences all the time. God's Truth promotes change, positive change, constructive change. Personal truth often causes a person to remain fixed and immovable with regard to change; they don't want to change. They want to sit in whatever it is they're sitting in for the rest of their existence. They don't want to move or even change their mind. Not only do you see people not changing their minds but you often see people not changing their lives, their lives aren't growing. On this earth we have this statement, "I'm too old to change." No, you're not ever too old to change, in fact the older you get, the more you need to change! (Both laugh)

**Mary:** If you're stuck in personal truth!

Particularly if you're stuck in personal truth. There is a quality of personal truth that is this fixed, "I'm not going to change" - type attitude, whereas God's Truth always has this flexibility to it in that, "I'm going to change to receive more truth." I'm not going to change to receive error, I'm going to change to receive more truth and that change, because I'm receiving more truth, is always going to be positive in nature.

**Mary:** Okay. God's Truth always acts in harmony with love. I think we've said that one or we talked about God's Love perhaps.

Yes, God's Truth always acts in harmony with love. If we contrast that with human truth, human truth often doesn't act in harmony with love at all.

**Mary:** Or often doesn't act at all.

Doesn't act at all sometimes, so we often see people just stay in complete stagnation, not acting at all. But if they do act, quite often they act completely out of harmony with love, because they believe they're right, and when they believe they're right when they're actually wrong, they're going to do an unloving thing. When they do the unloving thing, pain and suffering results. A quality of personal truth is that we're often in this place where we're acting out of harmony with love. This is where there's a huge problem from religious, political, and other perspectives on the planet. We're constantly acting out of harmony with what is obviously love, because we want to believe certain things and hold onto those beliefs.

**Mary:** Alright. God's Truth is automatic. What does that mean?

Well, because it exists as reality it is automatic in the sense that it happens all the time; it's on auto-pilot all the time. The beauty of all of the laws of the universe is that they are acting all the time. Whether we know them or not is immaterial. It's automatic, the whole system is automatic. When we look at the personal thing, we've generally got to do something, take an action or whatever. The beauty of God's Truth is that it's automatically in process, and personal truth is not always automatically in process.

Also God's Truth, once it's inside of us, automatically motivates us down a certain course of action that we can't avoid, because it's truth and we know it to be, so we don't avoid it. When we're in personal truth, it's not automatic to do good things, it's not automatic to grow, it's not automatic to change. When we're in personal truth we often want to do the opposite to that; we often don't want to grow, we often don't want to be loving, we often don't want to change.

**Mary:** When we haven't received God's Truth into our soul, we're still in personal truth and so even if we intellectually understand what might be loving, we have to practice that really hard.

We have to practice it, we have to force ourselves to do it; it's not automatic, whereas if Divine Truth is actually in our soul it's automatic. We do it automatically, we don't do it because we have to try, we're automatically loving. Rather than me having to think about, "How am I going to love Mary today?", once I've got God's Truth in my soul about as many subjects about love as I can get in my soul, I will automatically be doing it. I won't even have to think about it. I'm doing things automatically that demonstrate that I love you, without having to think about it. That's the beauty of God's Truth. With personal truth we go, "Oh, I know I should be truthful today, I know I should do this today, I know if I loved Mary I should do this, but I don't' really feel like doing it." That's how we feel when we're in personal truth.

**Mary:** Yes, okay. Last one, God's Truth is without judgement and is compassionate.

Yes. If you think of God's Truth as just the reality of existence, it doesn't have judgement either way. It doesn't say, "That's really, really bad" and "That's really, really good", it just is what it is. That's God's Truth. Because love is involved in it, it understands when somebody is out of harmony with it, it understands the truth of why they're out of harmony, but it still doesn't bend, it still is what it is. It doesn't judge the person as being out of harmony. Personal truth is usually the opposite of that. With personal truth it is in judgement – we usually go, "That person's terrible, they shouldn't have done that..." and this is often why people can't experience emotions that cause them to stay in personal truth because they often feel so judged. But also, often a person in this personal truth isn't very compassionate, either with themselves or with other people. In other words, they're frequently trying to punish a person or punish themselves, for actions that are taken out of harmony with love. Now if they were in harmony with God's Truth they wouldn't do that, because God's Truth doesn't do that.

God's Truth is what it is, it knows what it is, it is what it is. It doesn't judge a person either way; it just is what it is. If we bring ourselves into harmony with it, we will have happy lives. If we don't live in harmony with it, we're going to have pain and suffering. That is what it is. And the beauty of it is that it hasn't got the judgemental factors that we have. I feel one of the reasons why people on earth don't want to hear truth is that they're so afraid of being judged about not living in it, or about their own condition in comparison to it. That's a sad thing; it causes many people to resist Divine Truth as a result.

So if you look at all of those already, we've had a brief discussion really, it's been a brief discussion; I know it might have lasted twenty or thirty minutes or so (laughs), but it's really a brief discussion about the comparisons between God's Truth and personal truth. We probably want to look more deeply at these issues, which we will do in individual discussions, in individual questions.

**Mary:** Yes, I feel that will be really beneficial, and to talk a lot more about what it means to actually receive God's Truth and live God's Truth.

9. Why is humanity resistive to Divine Truth?

Well, the primary reasons for resistance revolve around a number of factors. I would say the very first factor is a resistance to pain and suffering. You could say that people have like, a pain threshold, a scale if you like that they weigh the balance in, like a pain scale. I'd call it a pain/pleasure scale. They have some other scales as well, for instance a fear/truth scale. They have a desire/apathy scale as well. I feel it's primarily these three scales that people have internally, going on inside of them, that prevent them from receiving Divine Truth.

**Mary:** Can you explain to me what you mean by a scale?

Well, it's like an internal scale; we're talking from an emotional perspective now. Basically we're saying that we have a pain or pleasure scale; in other words when the pain gets too intense we want to shut it down, we don't want to experience it. We like experiencing pleasure so we'd prefer pleasure over pain. Even though we have pain in us, we prefer to feel the pleasure instead. Even if the pain resides within us still, we still want the pleasure and in fact we become addicted to getting 'pleasures,' so-called pleasures met, oftentimes in avoidance of the pain. And when the pleasure gets too high we usually want to shut that down as well, ironically. That's the sad part of our existence; we're trying to maintain an emotional equilibrium that's based upon the pain and suffering that we might feel at any point in time, or the intensity of the pleasure that we might feel at any point in time. Our decisions are not based upon logic or truth anymore, it's only based upon, "What can I avoid, pain-wise?" and "What can I have, pleasure-wise?" Now this becomes very destructive when we're doing both of these things at the same time. So that's what I would call the pain/pleasure scale.

**Mary:** So we're resistive to Divine Truth because we don't want our pain to get higher than our...

Well, Divine Truth will expose our error and therefore our pain. We don't want our pain to get as high as being completely exposed. It's almost like we're happy to walk around in a dark room, hitting things all the time, just so no one any longer tells us that we're stupid doing it. In other words, no one gives us a torch and says, "Why are you walking around in a dark room banging into things all the time? You might as well have this torch so you can see where you're going." And then you'd feel really stupid right? That torch was available to you and you could have had it and you're still bumping into things, and this is where we don't like to see our pain exposed for, say, points of humiliation that we might feel; they're personal feelings. But we want to avoid the feeling and so we suppress it. We'd rather remain in darkness to our pain...

**Mary:** And we avoid truth because it will expose that.

Yes. Truth will expose. Truth's like a flashlight showing us the areas of pain and what the causes of those pains are, and we often wish to turn that off because we want to manage our pain; we don't want to experience our pain.

**Mary:** Presumably, from what we've discussed about Divine Truth in other questions, it can also bring us a great deal of pleasure and if we fear overwhelming pleasure then that would be another investment in...

Not only that but usually we also have addictive links to pleasure, in avoidance of pain. We're trying to use pleasure to avoid pain. That means we often think things are pleasurable that are not that pleasurable unfortunately, particularly not pleasurable to others. And so we engage in an addiction-based life. Now the truth will also expose all of our addictions. All the things we think are nice, turn out to not be as nice as we thought.

**Mary:** So this is another reason why we resist Divine Truth.

Of course, because now it feels like Divine Truth is taking away all of our pleasures as well. So we have this problem that it's exposing all of our pain and taking away all of our pleasures; that's what we believe in the moment. It's not true, it's not reality from God's perspective, but it is why we resist. It's a feeling that we have, a belief system that the majority of people have, and they can't give it up because the only way to give it up is to experience the pain and to have the light shone on the addictions which turn out to not be as pleasurable as you thought. That's the only way to give it up and they don't want to do that, so they resist the truth.

**Mary:** Okay, so that's one scale, the pleasure/pain scale. What about this other one you mentioned, the truth/fear scale?

Yes. A lot people will only receive truth to the point that their fear is not triggered. In other words, if the truth is universal or external they go, "Okay, yes, I can accept that." If somebody comes along and says, "Do you realise that we can put a satellite in the sky and bounce a few signals off it so that you know where your position is, anywhere on the earth within one metre?" And you go, "Wow, that's a great idea, that benefits my life; it reduces my fear so of course I'd love to do that." In fact it is a huge reduction in my fear, so of course I'm going to go for that. But now if another person comes along and says, "Do you realise that you are full of emotional pain and suffering and you've got all this grief about your childhood that you've got to feel, and it's all about how your dad abused you and your mum did this and your dad did that and whatever", now you're looking at that and you go, "I don't see any immediate benefit here, to addressing this particular problem." Your fear is now through the roof so where is your desire for truth? Very, very minor, very low. We usually only desire truth to the point where we believe we're going to benefit from it.

So the problem is with our beliefs again. Most of the time we believe that if we receive God's Truth it is going to result in restriction to our life, it's going to result in more fear. A lot of people don't want to discuss things about the spirit world for example, because they become afraid of where they're going to end up. They're still going to end up where they're going to end up in the end, so it doesn't make any sense to avoid it. In fact if they found out right now where they're going to end up and then they did something about it, they might be able to completely avoid it - if they did something about it. But they don't want to; because their fear goes through the roof and when the fear goes through the roof you then have this desire to suppress the knowledge of truth.

One of our problems is that once the fear is that high we're unwilling to feel the fear - and that's the real problem, the unwillingness to feel the fear itself, so we can by experience reduce it. Our fear then governs how much or what kind of truth we will accept. When the fear about a certain issue is high, we will only accept a very small portion of truth. When our fear is going to be reduced by accepting a truth or our fear is not going to be affected at all by accepting a truth, then we readily accept it. But that unfortunately means that our fear defines what truth we will accept. All of God's Truths often expose our fears, and now we have a lot of trouble because now we're going, "I don't want any of God's Truths because it's going to expose more of my fears."

**Mary:** And yet the truth is, when we receive God's Truth it does expose our fears but then it removes them eventually.

Well we get to feel them and as we feel them we remove them, that's the beauty of it. Truth is the only thing, in fact, that can reduce fear, that's the sad thing about it. It's like, "How do I not be afraid of knowing where I am?" By having the truth of where I am. That's why a GPS unit is great (laughs). If I'm in a fixed place on the planet and I don't know where I am, and then I've got a little device that tells me within a metre where I am, I now have no fear, I know exactly where I am. Knowing the truth actually reduces our fear, that's the truth. Unfortunately we believe the opposite to that, we believe that having God's Truth exposing us will expose our fears and because we're unwilling to feel those fears we unfortunately believe that the problem is with the truth and so we deny it, we push the truth away again, we don't want to experience it. And that's when we start running into trouble with the fear/truth scale.

**Mary:** Alright, what about the third scale, the desire/apathy scale that you mentioned?

Yes well, this is another reason why people don't accept Divine Truth on the planet. They don't have a strong desire for it, they're apathetic about it. It's like, "Do you want to know the secrets of the universe?" "Not really, I'm having enough trouble with my day-to-day life thank you very much." It's like...

**Mary:** Why are we so apathetic towards truth?

Well in the end we're apathetic mostly because we're suppressing pain. One of the primary reasons for apathy is to try and avoid pain. If we don't have to do anything then we get to avoid some things. We're never going to avoid them in the long run of course; God's Universe is constructed in such a way that truth is unavoidable in the end. But we want to avoid it for as long as possible and one way of avoiding it is by just being apathetic to it, saying, "I don't care, it doesn't worry me," when it often does worry us, but we're just not honest. Also, unfortunately, we don't have a desire. From a very young age in this world, we're often taught that we're never going to have anything that we want actually come to us.

**Mary:** We better get used to it.

We better get used to it. In fact some parents purposely teach their children that; some parents actually try to withhold things from their children on purpose in order to teach the child that they're not always going to get what they want. Now because of that we learn to suppress our desires in order to not feel pain. Whenever you have a desire that isn't met, generally you feel a bit of pain. When there's an emotion inside of you about the desire that's out of harmony with love, as a result you feel pain. So we're taught to not desire anything. We're also taught that some things are pointless to desire. One of those things that are pointless to desire is the truth about the universe, the truth about spiritual existence, the truth about our emotions; all of those things that are more difficult to understand, we're taught that it's impossible to know. Because we're taught or told that it's impossible to know before we begin, we have no desire to know. We think that it's impossible before we begin. It's like telling a child, "I'm never going to give you that thing, so don't even bother trying." Now if the child has that taught often enough and long enough to them, they will never try to get that thing, ever, because they've already been taught to believe that.

This is the problem with our desire. We are often very, very apathetic and as a result of apathy we have no desire for universal truth, for God's Truth. We have no desire to know what the Absolute Truth is, in fact many of us now believe that it's not even possible to know, and as a result we take no action to know. Because of that, we then often suppress desire to know and therefore we live in apathy and that causes us to remain stagnant and therefore in opposition to Divine Truth, because Divine Truth is going to encourage change.

**Mary:** It's a similar issue though, isn't it. I find in apathy there's usually a lot of anger and underneath that a lot of pain and so with all three of the scales that you're describing: our desire for truth versus our fear, our desire versus our apathy and the pleasure pain scale, they're all really based around our fear of pain aren't they, our fear of experiencing pain and so this is why we're so resistive to Divine Truth.

It's not just our fear of experiencing pain, physical pain, because most people can cope with a degree of physical pain. It's more the emotional pain and emotional suffering that we are trying to avoid. If you look at the pleasure/pain scale, the reason why we're so focused on life's pleasure without any consideration about whether it's loving or not, without any consideration of truth, is that we are trying to avoid the pain, we're trying to run away from how things feel to us emotionally. In the end it's always the emotional part of our existence that we're avoiding, rather than the physical part of the existence. So while we may be seeking physical pleasure, oftentimes it's to avoid emotional pain. While we may be seeking to avoid truth, oftentimes it's because of the emotional pain we feel when we come to acknowledgement of the truth. And we're often suppressing desire because we don't want to feel the emotional pain of having our desires unfulfilled. So a lot of it is all about emotional pain and our inability to experience it. So the primary reason really in the end why most people reject Divine Truth is that they do not have a desire to experience emotional pain, they don't desire to release the emotional pain, the truth of their current existence. That is the primary reason why they reject the truth.

10. What are the qualities and attributes of Divine Truth?

**Mary:** You've said that "Divine Truth" has specific qualities and attributes. Can you firstly list a summary of them, and then can we discuss them one by one?

Yes well, let's do that, let's do that. I've written them down for you so you can read them out, but before you read them out I'd like to say a few things about them. Firstly, this list that we're going to read out now about the qualities and attributes of Divine Truth, is not exhaustive. In other words it's not the only qualities of Divine Truth but we're going to list fourteen different qualities. If you even use them individually you can easily determine where something is Divine Truth or not, as a result of comparing them with each individual quality, once you understand the quality and how it works.

Secondly, we need to see that Divine Truth, or God's Truth, has these attributes and qualities and we need to understand what we mean by attributes and qualities. If we think about it this way: if I had to describe my hand, we could say that it has certain attributes and qualities. We know that it's covered with skin; we know that it has a certain shape, that there are five fingers. Each finger has a certain type of construction, the thumb having a different type of construction than the other four fingers. We can see that there are nails on the end of each finger, we can see how the fingers can contract, we can see that they don't have the ability to go the opposite direction, these are all qualities and attributes of a hand. Now in the same way, God's Truth has a definition of all of the attributes and qualities, and we're going to list some. We're not listing them all, just like I did not list all of the qualities of my hand, because my hand has all sorts of other qualities including the tendons that link to muscles in my arm and all these other things involved with it, how it's constructed with flesh, bone and all these other aspects, but they are all qualities of every single person's hand. Every single person who's not deformed has a hand like that, with all the same qualities.

**Mary:** Basically you're saying you're describing attributes of your hand. Each attribute isn't your hand but it's something that's common to every hand.

Exactly. Each attribute that we're going to list about the qualities of Divine Truth, is common to God's Truth uniquely and that's generally different to people's truth.

**Mary:** And God has many truths but every one of them has these same attributes.

Exactly. When we ask the truth about God's Love it's going to have all of these attributes. When we ask the truth about faith it's going to have all these attributes; when we ask the truth about how gravitation works, it's going to have all of these attributes. When we ask the truth about potential things we haven't discovered yet, teleportation, levitation, inter-stellar transportation and so forth, it's going to have attributes that are all matching this list of truths. The beauty of understanding these particular attributes or definitions of God's Truth ... We're not actually saying what God's Truth is, because we can't actually say what God's Truth is because God's Truth's infinite and to say what it is would take me an infinite amount of time! But we can say what attributes it has, what qualities it has, so that we can recognise it when we see it. That's why it's very important to understand this list.

What we need to see is that these attributes and qualities are in every one of God's Truths. Of course there are attributes and qualities other than these fourteen that are present in every one of God's Truths, but once you understand these fourteen basic attributes and qualities you'll have a much easier time in knowing what is God's Truth and what is not, just by testing anything against these particular qualities. If you take that approach you will find that it's quite easy to determine what might be God's Truth in comparison to what are just human ideas or concepts. Now there are many human ideas and concepts that will fit into these principles.

**Mary:** Are they God's Truth then?

They will probably turn out to be, but they haven't been proven as true on a number of levels yet. There are many things that we can come up with as ideas that match these qualities, and ideas that match these qualities often turn out to be truth of God. Perhaps we could just list them and then we'll have another series of questions where we discuss them one by one.

**Mary:** Okay.

1: Divine Truth is infinite.

2: Divine Truth is of itself a thing apart and admits no variations or modifications.

3: Divine Truth and Love are always in perfect harmony, and without Truth, Love cannot be complete.

4: Divine Truth does not and cannot compromise, even for the sake of peace.

5: Divine Truth itself, with all the power and knowledge that it has as its foundation, will not compel a man to accept it against his will. Divine Truth honours free will.

6: Divine Truth will never and can never accommodate itself to the beliefs of men.

7: Divine Truth results in freedom.

8: Divine Truth results in a fearless existence.

9: Divine Truth does not hurt anyone or anything.

10: Divine Truth does not allow the lie, no matter what the price.

11: Living out of harmony with Divine Truth results in penalties or consequences.

12: Divine Truth is demonstrated by actions, supported by evidence that is scientific, emotional, physical and spiritual.

13: Divine Truth is felt; it is emotional.

14: Personal "truth" must be faced before Divine Truth can be found.

Perhaps I'll just clarify the fourteenth point, "Personal truth must be faced." What I'm saying there basically is that there's this aspect of Divine Truth that exposes your personal condition, as it really is not as you want to believe it is. That's the aspect of number fourteen; it always exposes the error within the individual. But if you examine that list you can see that it's quite a comprehensive list and Divine Truth has every one of those qualities as a part of itself all the time. If any one of these qualities are missing then there's a high likelihood that it's not completely Divine Truth at that point. If I can give an example of that, there's a part of Divine Truth that talks about honouring free will and then there's a part that says it won't compromise. That doesn't mean you'd go to war, because going to war would not honour another person's free will.

**Mary:** So the two are harmonious.

The two are going to be harmonious with each other. The thing we need to understand with these qualities is that they are all harmonious with each other. That is an indication that they are Divine Truth. All these qualities are harmonious with each other; they are all qualities or attributes that define what truth is from God's perspective. Because we now have these qualities that we can list one at a time, and we'll go through them in the next discussion we have about this subject, once we list them one at a time the listeners will see that every single quality has this unique ability or unique way in which it exposes error and we can give some examples of that as well.

Now, with these qualities, we're going to ask two questions. The first question we're going to ask is, "What is the quality itself?" so with regard to point number one that you raised, 'God's Truth is infinite,' what does that mean? 'God's Truth is infinite,' - what does it mean? The second part that we're going to ask to that question is, "How would that look like if I felt and believed that in my own life?"

**Mary:** What would day-to-day life look like?

What would day-to-day life look like if I actually had that belief or understanding in my soul? They're the two questions that we're going to ask the next time we get together on this subject.

**Mary:** Great.

So thanks for your time today guys and we'll look forward to discussing this subject further with you. As I've said, we will have many, many more questions to ask about Divine Truth, but the next couple of sessions will be primarily about discussing these fourteen issues of Divine Truth in two different ways. Basically the next two sessions will contain fourteen questions each and we'll get onto other subjects related to Divine Truth after that. Thanks for your time.

