.
2
3
A
p
ri
l
2
0
19
>>Hello.
(Applause)
>>
H
i
.
Good afternoon.
I Monica Moreno Figueroa
.
I the senior lecturer in
sociology here at
the University of Cambridge
and a fellow at Downing College
and I will
be the chair
tonight.
First, I want to welcome my
guests and all
of you on behalf of the
University of
Cambridge.
This event is historic.
Two of the most
powerful black women speaking
and writing
today are addressing us here in
Cambridge, but has never seen
anything like
it.
We have Angela Davis and Jackie
Kay in the
house.
(Applause)
>>Yes.
(Applause)
>>So,
Jackie and Angela's conversation
today
, in the largest venue we could
find in town
, emerges from the growing
movement
to do Colin
-
-
d
ec
ol
o
ni
se
at the University and the
movement is tuned
by the energy and demands
to resist being colonised again
by the well-being whiteness
of institutional
forces.
It is in everybody's interest
to consider
this movement's proposal which
is,
in my view, to think about how
we can be
more critical and comprehensive
, more inclusive and flexible,
more committed and responsible
in the
teaching, learning,
research and community work we
do here in
Cambridge.
This movement connects us with
a movement across many
universities and
connects us with wider
discussions about
social injustice and the present
challenges
of the climate crisis
we are living and dying through.
Crucially,
thinking about decolonisation
allows us
to
imagine and demand
that this is not the only time
that an event like this happens
here
, that this does not become an
exception.
People of colour
will not and cannot be
the exception any more
anywhere.
(Applause)
>>While I am here
as another black woman on this
stage
and I can see many people of
colour
in the audience,
I am one of only five academics
self identified
as black
of all academic staff at the
University of
I am sure I do
not need to
read out the amazing
biographies of
our guests.
Instead I would like
to say something wet
about them.
Jackie and Angela
care about
the world.
They care about
justice and they care
about what living
in freedom means.
We can see the
difficulties we
face as people
and their
exasperation in the
face of oppression
and injustice.
Angela and Jackie
have the amazing
ability to move us
, to touch us
emotionally
, to inspire
us to act.
They have found
the most
direct and persuasive
way to communicate
what is important
, and they get hurt.
They guide us to move
between everyday
experiences and
broader visions for
a
kind and fairer
world.
They are powerful with
their words measuring
us
different strategies
to question, confront,
intervene and change
within and beyond
institutions, always
alive to the
connections between
movements
, working towards a
politics of
solidarity.
Jackie Kay
is the poet Laureate
of Scotland.
She teaches us with
the most exquisite
words to listen to
language, and that
poetry is both
political and
accessible.
In the words of
her fellow writer
, Ali Smith,
Jackie Kay is
a find of multidisciplinary
possibilities, the
voice for those who
have none,
the real something in
the seeming nothing,
the story
in the poem,
the true ineffective
.
Jackie teaches us
to fully appreciate
what kindness is and
to enact it in our
lives,
the really most
revolutionary of
acts.
Angela has talked
about our lives today
are the result
of the energies
and imaginations of
those who came before
us.
In turn, we may
not witness the
consequences of what
we do, the
realisation of the
worlds we imagine,
but we must
do this work.
It is clear to me
that Angela and
Jackie
are creating and
sustaining the
terrain for transformation
and liberation for
years to come.
The importance of
this conversation is
evident in the fact
that so many
departments and
centres at the
University have come
together to make it
possible.
Special thanks
to the amazing
organisation by
Professor Sarah
Franklin,
the decolonising
sociology
department,
and so, without
further ado,
let's have a round
of applause for
Jackie Kay and
Angela Davis.
>> Thank you!
>>
Thank you so much
for that wonderful
introduction.
Thank you, everybody
here, for having us.
Thank you to the
University of
Cambridge for hosting
this, and thank you so
much, Angela, for
agreeing to come and
have a conversation
with me.
Ahh!
>> Thank you!
I'm so excited
about the
conversation.
Usually I know what to
expect, but I have no
idea what to expect
this evening and
that's very exciting.
>> On my bedroom wall
is a big post of
Angela Davis, who is
in prison right now
for nothing at all
except she wouldn't
put up with stuff.
My mum says she is
only 26 which seems
really old to me
, but my mum says
it is young
.
Just imagine,
she says, being
on
America's 10 most
wanted people
list at 26.
I can't.
Angela Davis
is the only female
person I've seen
except for a
nurse on TV
who looks like me.
She has been here,
like mine, that gross
out instead of down
.
My mum says it is
called an Afro.
If I could be
as brave as her
when I get older,
I will be OK.
Last night, I kissed
her good night again
and wondered if she
could feel the cases
in prison all the
way from Scotland
.
Her skin is the same,
too, you know.
I can see my skin has
that colour but most
of the time I forget,
so sometimes, when I
look in the mirror,
I give myself
a bit of a shock and
say to myself, "Do you
really look like
this?" It is as if
I'm somebody else.
I wonder if she
does that.
I don't believe she
killed anybody.
It is all a load
of phony lives.
My dad says it
is a set up.
I asked him if she
will get the electric
chair, like the others
he was telling me
about.
"No,
" he says, "The world
is on her side." So
how come she
is in there?
I think.
I worry she is going
to get the chair.
I worry that she is
worrying about the
chair.
My dad says she will
be putting on a brave
face.
He brought me a badge
home, which I wore to
school.
It said, "Free
Angela Davis!"
>> Thank you!
>> And all
my pals say,
"Who is she?"
So, when I was
growing up
, as I did, in
Glasgow, and with
parents that were in
the Communist Party,
I did have that
Free Angela Davis
poster on my wall,
and I did think about
you, and it is
one of life's strange
circles to see myself
sat here
now.
We met last year
in Dublin
, but it feels as if I
have known you for a
lifetime, and it must
feel like that for
many people here in
this hall, because
the very utterance
of your name,
to utter your name is
also to think about
comradeship,
solidarity, courage,
hope, companionship
.
Your name is that
a beacon of hope
for all of us
, and it still has
that poetic ring to
it.
"Angela Davis!"
Don't you think
so, Angela Davis?
>> Well, thank
you, Jackie.
When we met,
almost exactly
one year ago
, I felt this sense
of kinship
.
I remember we
talked about
parents, our
families, and it was
so wonderful exchange
.
Later
, in preparation
for this event
, I started to think
about the work
that was produced
by black British
feminists
,
women of African
and Asian descent
in this country, and
I remembered this
anthology that
I hadn't seen
referred to
, and the title of the
anthology is Charting
the Journey
.
Remember that?
Are any of you old
enough to remember
it?
I see people here
. I know Gail.
I said, "Oh, yes,
this was an anthology
that was co-edited
by Gail Lewis
." I looked at it and
I said, "Oh, my God,
Jackie Kay was one
of the co-editors
!" And I taught this
anthology, so I do
have this relationship
that goes back to
the early 1990s.
I did experience
your kiss
.
I know I did.
I know.
>> That was my
next question.
I was actually
wondering
, when you were in
prison and you had
the sense that your
name was being spoken
in strangers'
households around the
world
and that you were a
household name, a
name held by the
houses, held by the
people within
the houses,
so your name
was
precious to them, as
you were precious to
them, I wonder if that
ever set-up any
disjunct between
yourself and your
name
or if it set up a
strange between a
public and private
self, or if it always
felt as one?
>>
Well...
Much of what was
happening in the
world
, in terms of
organising around my
case, I really didn't
discover until after
my trial was over.
Although my attorneys
and my comrades and
friends
did sometimes bring
photographs
in and they would
tell me about
demonstrations
that happened
in this country
and that country
,
I don't know whether
I had a sense
of the enormity
of it
.
It was really
remarkable
.
But when I did
think about it,
I asked myself,
"Well, do I, as an
individual, really
deserve all of this
attention?" On only
one person, and that
was an era of intense
repression
.
There were many other
people in person.
I looked at the women
who were in the jails
where I was, and I
ask, "Well, who was
supporting them?"
Eventually, the
campaign that was
originally called
the National United
Committed to Free
Angela Davis
,
it didn't make
sense to me
, as afraid as I
might have been
, it didn't make sense
for there to be
so much Activision
activism focused
on some
one individual.
I know that this is
how I address
what you call
the public
/private
...
I don't know whether
I would call it the
public and
the private.
I think I would refer
to the fact that
my image was
primarily
a kind
of
. I do know, a
reminder, a
prompt
.
I was not
the central character
.
Millions of people
came together, and I
still think of myself
as someone
who needs to attest
to the fact that
movement was
successful.
It can work against
racism, misogyny, all
the other issues
in the world.
I don't take myself
that seriously.
>>That is why we
all love you.
>>It is really
interesting and
fascinating
for all of us
for whom you are
very important
and struggle with
that relationship
between the individual
and the movement.
I think it must
be that way
of being able to
understand what has
happened to you as
being part of the
movement because
that was also
, in a sense, a
survival
technique.
If you had not been
able to do that
or see that in that
way, it could have
potentially been quite
damaging to have that
level of weight
and responsibility
, in a sense,
put onto
one name, your name.
It could have been
very difficult
had you not also
found this way
of thinking about it
or thinking about
yourself as being
part of a movement.
You think
that helped?
>>It did not happen
immediately.
I did not immediately
understand
that relationship
and I suppose
there were
many moments
when I thought
, "How can I look
after everyone's
expectations?
I am one person.
" I tried to
do the work
that needs to be done
to build struggles
and all of the
revolutionary and
radical communities
that work together.
I am
a single individuals
how can I live up to
everyone's expectations?
It is funny but when
I got out of jail
...
>>I love that
sentence.
One sentence.
So funny.
>>It was funny because
I did not know how to
deal with it.
I was in jail
for two years.
Of course I was in my
late 20s and I was
still wanting to party
so I would go to
these parties and
people would see me
and feel obligated
to have a political
conversation
when the music
was blasting
and I could
hardly hear
what they
were saying.
So, for a while,
I refuse to do them.
I thought I would
not go to a party
and how to, in
effect, play this
role.
I learned later
how to
demystify
.
"You don't have
to do that.
Let's dance !"
for a while
it was pretty
overwhelming.
I often tell
this story
about
the young women
that I met
a number of years ago
and I was winning
a T-shirt
with her picture
on it.
To be frank,
I would see
people with
my image on
their T-shirts and
it was embarrassing.
I said to her
,
she was a young woman
who was thinking
about going to
college
, a foster child,
she was in the
foster system,
and I said, "Why do
you have that T-shirt
on?"
I asked what the
big deal was.
She said, "
You know,
whenever I wear this
T-shirt, it makes me
feel powerful
and as if I can do
whatever I want to do
." At that moment,
I was able
to understand
and recognise that it
was not all about me.
My image
served as a way
of thinking
about processes
of empowerment
and the way
to think about
the possibility that
people when they came
together could achieve
insurmountable goals
.
>>Absolutely.
The thing of saying
,
"
It is not about me,"
if you were to say
that to the
young girl,
she would say,
"It is."
I think
that is true.
That is on one hand.
On the other hand,
I think it
is not true.
It is about you.
It is one of those
really charming
conundrums
and it actually
comes out of you,
having that paradox,
if you like,
and that is also part
of Angela Davis
herself, because
you are a mixture
of so many multiple
selves
.
There is Angela Davis
the scholar,
Angela Davis
the activist,
Angela Davis the
person that was on
the most wanted list,
Angela Davis the
magnificent women sat
here now
is a lovely scarf
and sense of humour
, the Angela Davis
who loves music
and having a good
time
and they are all of
these different selves
but yet people often
think they will just
meet this part and
society often tries to
put us into one box
or to ask us
to choose.
In the 1980s,
the late 1970s,
the late 1980s,
we were asked if it
was more important to
us to be black, to
be a woman, to be a
lesbian, and it did
your head in.
I remember doing an
interview with a
journalist, a Scottish
journalist, and I
said I was fed up of
being described as a
black feminist
lesbian and then
there was a headline
in the newspaper
and my Gran saw the
headline in the
Sunday paper
and had not cottoned
on to the fact I was a
lesbian even
though I had
taken successive
girlfriends round to
her house
for her gingerbread
.
She phoned my
mum and said
, "
Does her father know
about this?" She
said, "
Oh, well, there's one
thing . not many
people read that big
paper." (Laughter)
>> OK, I'm
translating!
>> You are catching
on fast.
But that business of
people asking you
to choose between
different aspects
of yourself
, people often ask you
as well whether the
experience you had
when you were 26
feels as if it
belonged to a
different person or
whether you feel as
if you are all the
same person, if you
see what I mean.
When I look at you
now, it is as if the
younger you
anticipated the
person who is before
us now at the corn
exchange in Cambridge.
>> When I was that
age, I knew I would
never have been able
to imagine being 75
years old.
That was like beyond
the scope of my
imagination.
But in a sense, I
think you are
probably right.
But you know what
I'm thinking about?
I'm thinking about
the fact that
a lot of people
from that era
did not survive
, so I'm actually
among
a few of us
who survived and who
can bear witness
,
so I think of myself
as a witness
to that historical
moment and all of
the wonders, the
revolutionary
wonders
,
but all of the
contradictions and
problems
.
I'm actually
kind of amazed
.
When I think about
those times when many
of us did not expect
to survive
precisely because
of the repression
, I think about the
work that so many
people did.
I was just one
of many people,
and I constantly have
two point out
that it's not fair
to ask me to bear
the burdens
of all of that
history, as an
individual.
Even today, for
some reason
, I became associated
with
a phrase.
I really don't
understand.
I really don't
understand
because
when I decided to
wear my hair natural,
it was because
other black women
were wearing their
hair natural!
I was copying others.
Somehow, when people
talk about Afros, they
use my name
.
>> UID go to Afro.
I guess it is because
you are the person
whose Afro became
very iconic.
>> But why?
>> Because of the
struggle, because
your life became like
a story that was
happening
to you, which
sometimes I think,
when something
dramatic has happened
to us or we have been
recently bereaved or
when something really
shocking has happened
to us, we tend to
slightly step outside
ourselves and look
at our life
as if it is telling a
story back to us, and
sometimes that very
action means that we
have
two right, to get
prompted to
pick up the pen
rather than the arms
or displayed because
we suddenly think,
"I have got
to write to
make sense of this."
When I think about
you autobiography,
which was published
in 1974, whether
or not you felt
compelled to write it
not just to remember
everything that had
happened but also to
find a space to try
and understand and
process of what was
happening
?
>> No.
>> No, no?
>> I really did not.
I thought that
I was too young
to write an
autobiography.
I didn't think that
my story was so
exceptional
that it deserved
to be preserved
and of the genre.
Of course, I was
thinking of the
genre
, in the bourgeois,
masculinist way that
it evolved,
you know, the
exceptional
individual
who provides lessons
to the readers
, and I had many
arguments with Toni
Morrison
...
>> As you do.
(Laughter)
>>
Because Toni Morrison
was not yet Toni
Morrison.
She was an editor
at Random House
publishing company
.
She tried to
convince me
to write an
autobiography
, and my first
answer was no
.
"What do I
have to say?"
I'm not the kind of
person who readily
reveals all of
the aspects
of my private life
.
I said
, "
They are going to want
to know the first
time I had sex,
this and that...
I don't want to do
that." What was
interesting was that
Toni Morrison,
who was a good
friend, said I could
write the kind of
autobiography I
wanted to write.
I said I wanted to
write a political
autobiography.
Not only was I able
to do that kind of
writing,
which I appreciated
the fact that she was
willing to stand
up for me,
because the people
at Random House were
interested in selling
books, so they really
wanted
the conventional
autobiography
,
and she supported me.
She defended me
.
>> Now that
autobiography is
going to be made
into a film.
Does that feel
strange?
>> Yeah, that feels
scary.
>> In what way
is it scary?
>> For one,
I'm a very
shy person.
You may not believe it
but I am, I really
am.
I've always been shy
and I always forget,
when I go out, that
people may recognise
me on the street.
It's always a
surprise to me, so I
think about the
fact that,
if this film is made,
I will just have to
retreat for a while
.
It's wonderful to have
people recognise you,
but sometimes
it's a bit much.
You know, like
going shopping
. once I was
in whole foods
in Oakland
and this woman said,
"Angela Davis!
" I said, "
Yeah?" I mean I had my
shopping cart, right?
She said, "
May I take a picture
with you?" I said, "I
guess so." She took
the picture and
started yelling to
people all over the
store.
"Look who's here!"
From then on, I had
my partner do all
the shopping.
>> That's a handy
excuse!
(Laughter)
I like it.
>> I don't like
shopping anyway,
but...
>> I'm going to
try that myself.
>> The film
, I'm actually
interested in it
now.
For a while, I wasn't.
It happened
because my niece, my
sister's daughter, who
was named after me
, she's a playwright
.
When she was in her
20s, she said, "I'm
going to turn the
autobiography into a
film
." She was like 22.
I said, "Sure."
(Laughter)
She said, "But you
had to sell me the
right." So I sold the
rights to her for one
dollar.
Then, 20 years later,
or 25 years later,
she does develop
a script
, so that's how the
film actually came
about.
But what I find
exciting about it is
the fact that
Julie
D
a
sh
, and I don't know if
you are familiar with
her work
, she is going
to direct it
, so to meet is
exciting not because
it focuses on me
but because I get
to be a part of
something that she
has done.
>> Also the idea of
truth being stranger
than fiction
. it goes full
circle, in a sense,
because there will be
somebody playing you,
somebody playing the
part of you, which
you will be able to
watch seeing how they
play you, which is a
weird thing and a
weird thing
to consider.
>> I don't know...
Your memoir is
going to be
transformed into
a play, right?
Somebody's going to be
playing you as well.
>> I know!
That's what I'm
talking about.
My
mum keeps saying,
"Who's going to be
playing me?"
>> If you haven't read
Jackie's
memoir, Red Dust
Road, you should read
it.
It's
really moving and
fascinating, and
amazing story.
>> Thank you.
I'm getting shy now!
Let's jump
to Trump.
(Laughter)
I'm only joking.
I was thinking about
...
>> We try not
to pronounce
his name.
We call him
the current occupant
of Pennsylvania
Avenue.
>> I was thinking that
these times we live
in, when we think
about truth and
reality and fake news
and how difficult and
hard it is to cling
onto, how often
realities get
challenged
and our experience of
it, how often it gets
challenged by
different
people
, and racism,
you could say,
one of the aspects
of it that is so
distressing is that
it challenges what
your perceptions of
reality are, because
people don't
necessarily assume or
accept what you have
experienced is
racism, and that
can itself create
all sorts of
difficult and
extraordinary
problems.
I was wondering
what it is like at
the moment, living in
the States, with
the current
occupant of 1600
Pennsylvania
Avenue.
>>
Well, you know,
it is horrendous
.
I don't think any of
us could have imagined
that we would
find ourselves
in such a state
.
Then, on the other
hand, it's exciting
,
because his election
has produced
such resistance
, this resurgence of
activism among people
who might
have never
expected to
get involved
.
I don't think
it's accidental
, the campaign against
misogynist violence
over the last
couple of years
.
It has really surged
.
I think that
the solidarity
of movement
around Palestine
has really grown
and developed
over the last
couple of years
.
The fact that students
for justice for
Palestine, a student
organisation
on college and
university
campuses
, that has increased
quite
amazingly.
>>You had an
extraordinary
opportunity when you
are offered a prize.
>>It was weird.
I grew up in
Birmingham
, Alabama.
I still have
a lot of ties
in Birmingham
and I knew
Fred shuttled with
and went to school
with his children
and
when the Civil Rights
Institute offered me
this award
which was named
after him
I told them how
excited I was
.
Then,
shortly before I was
supposed to go to
Birmingham to receive
it, they called me and
told me that
due to
my public statements
that they were
rescinding the award.
I thought, "what
public statements?"
They said it was part
of the public record
and I said that they
did not even tell me
it was about my
support for justice
for Palestine.
You know, it is
quite amazing
.
First of all
I said
, "All I agreed to do
was accept a human
rights award and now
there is all this
controversy and that
always seems to
happen to me
." A lot of my own
comrade wrote to me
and said I did not
have to do anything,
just be there.
I wish they had
organised it around
someone else and I was
not at the centre of
it.
What was so amazing
was that the black
community in
Birmingham,
along with quite
a number
of Jewish organisations
and individuals,
immediately stood
up
and challenged
the board
of directors
of the Birmingham
Civil Rights
Institute.
They stood up for
Palestine.
What the board
was saying
was,
"
I am sorry
but our human rights
perspective does not
include certain people
.
It does not include
a list names
-
-
people from
Palestine."
(Applause)
>>Our response was
that, in the words of
Dr Martin Luther
King, Justice is
indivisible
and you don't get to
decide who deserves
justice and
who does not.
(Applause)
>>People from
Palestine
deserve justice
as much as people
in the south
who are black.
As it turns out, it
was the occasion
for a major surge
and
justice for
Palestine.
>>
It
is another strange
paradox because if
that had not happened
and they had not
offered you the price
and then descended
it then
the amount of support
and response would
not have happened
in the same
way either.
Life is full of these
strange
coincidences.
>>I receive thousands
of statements of
support
and there was a
group of rabbis
, a large group
called Reconstructionist
Rabbis
, and they wrote
a powerful statement
and what I found
so moving
was the fact that
so many Jewish
organisations from
all over the world
sent in their
support.
I would not have
known if that had not
happened.
You are right.
It is strange.
Unexpected gifts.
>>Unexpected gift.
When I think
about your life
,
even with different
things,
you have found a way
of taking different
things
and turning them into
unexpected gifts and
that is part of
your strength,
you
, as Angela Davis,
that is your
personal
strength, and not
everyone is able to
deal with hardship in
exactly that way but
if we can find a way
,
like in
the famous
Paul Young by Audrey
Lord, it is
better to speak
because when we are
silent we are afraid.
It is better to
speak to survive.
I think Audrey Lloyd
was another one of
those people that I
think of as being
courageous
and someone who spoke
out in the world and
managed to turn
difficult things into
gifts
in some way.
I'm wondering what
other times you feel
that has happened to
you in your life,
when there has been
some kind of
unexpected.
Would you describe
your time in prison
as being like that
in some way?
Did that inside time
teaching a lot of
things inside
yourself?
>>Thank you
so much for
evoking the name
of Audrey Lord.
We have learned
so much from her.
I think I have
learned from her
that contradictions
can be generative
.
I have been a Marxist
for a very long time
and there are a lot
of contradictions and
all of that but it
was not until I met
Audrey Lord that it
clicked, it made
sense.
The fact that
we can be afraid
and still act
and adhere
-
-
that fear is not the
opposite of action or,
if it is, we
figure out how
to work inside that
contradiction
because many people
have asked me
, "How is it that you
avoided being afraid?"
This is as if courage
requires you
to somehow guarantee
that fear
does not enter
into your emotional
response
.
We could talk
about Audrey.
>>When I met her,
she said to me
, "
You know
, Jackie, you can be
black and Scottish.
You do not have to
choose." At the age
of 23, that was a
revolutionary idea to
me.
>>You know,
you are right
about
experience.
That was
, I was only in jail
for...
>>18 months.>>18
months.
That is a drop
in a bucket.
That is not very
long at all.
It did seem like
it was a long time
.
When I was first
arrested
I remember thinking
, "
My God, I have been in
jail for one week."
I realised that
I learned so much
from that experience
.
It really help
e
d
to shape my
trajectory
from
then until now
and
if someone told me
that I could return
and relive my life
without that
experience
I would probably say,
"No, I don't think
so.
I don't think so."
I learned
how important it is
to focus on those who
have been cast aside
and marginalised
and I have been
really fortunate
to work with
wonderful activists
over the years
developing
the whole notion of
the prison industrial
complex
,
arguing
for the abolition
of prison
,
which I think we
could talk about this
evening,
and maybe we will
have a little time.
Also,
we did talk about
the fact that
feminism
is not a unitary
phenomenon on
and I think
abolition
of feminism helps us
to formulate
a revolutionary
feminism,
feminism
that embraces
women of colour,
working-class women
.
>>It seems very
different now,
our understanding of
what feminism can be
compared to the 1970s,
the early 1980s
.
It seems very
different.
White feminists
would assume
that that
was feminism
and there were not
coloured voices.
>>We also see that
as feminism.
>>That has massively
changed.
What do you think has
made that change
happen?
All of us are making
more connections
between one movement
and the other
and these boxes
have changed
completely
and people are
jumping in and out of
different spaces
and making multiple
connections between
one group and another.
A movement like
blacklight matter
is very different
to any movement
in the
1970s and 1980s.
>>This is a beginning
of a very long
conversation.
I do think
that if we work
to produce
certain ways
of understanding
the world
, and even if we
don't really have
the conceptual
tools
that we need
,
because no one
had ever spoken
about the term
'
into sexuality
'
-
-
into sectional
, and maybe we could
have a conversation
about
using it in a
different way
today and how that
absolves us of the
responsibility
of doing
further
theoretical and
practical work.
Certainly that term
came out of
a long history
of attempting
to develop theories
and practices
that put things
together
that were ideological
a
torn asunder
and we were not
allowed to think
together
.
There were those of
us, and you know,
because you are one,
you are younger
than I am,
but I think you are
the next generation
,
to be able to think
about contradictions
in a productive way
...
We were talking about
Audrey Lloyd a short
while ago.
If we manage to convey
those struggles
in such a way
that another
generation
comes
and takes
it and moves
it further
...
I always like
the metaphor
that we are standing
on the shoulders of
the generation
before us
and there will be
those that stand on
our shoulders.
Those on our
shoulders
have a much
longer vision.
They are able to see
so much further.
It accents
-
-
makes sense that
the younger
activists
feminists
, and I'm not afraid
to use that
term now,
I was reluctant
, the first time
someone called me a
feminist I said
, "no, I am not a
feminist," even
though I had just
written a book about
it, but, it was
because for me, there
was a sort of
thing like
glass-ceiling
feminism, those who
were attempting
to assimilate
into
an existing apparatus
and those who wanted
to join men
in the work of
keeping the face
of repression going.
There were those of
ours who had to say,
"No.
It is about
transforming the
structures
and creating
a new society
and about imagining
new possibilities
."
>>There is so much
of it happening now
so, in a strange
sense,
even though we
have that current
occupant and the
Brexit crisis and
comedians taking over
the Ukraine and
all sorts
of realities
...
A lot of other leaders
.
>>
At the same time,
we have this
, we have all
of you here
,
so many young faces
that we are looking
at in the audience and
seeing and that gives
me hope.
I think that
the future
is not going to be
the Democrats or
the Republicans
or the Labour Party
or the Conservatives,
I think it will be
this, this third way.
You talk about the
third way of trying
to find a third way
and when you look out
here today
, do you think
it is they are?
Here you are.
Yes.
>> You are absolutely
right
.
We have to generate
that hope
.
Hope is,
as Walter Benjamin
said,
for the sake of
those without
hope.
Young people cannot
live without hope
, and that is why
the real revolutionaries
are always
really the youth,
young people
, and those of us who
are older have to
recognise that
.
I don't mind
being the person now
who needs to learn how
to follow the
leadership
of younger people.
I like that.
Don't you?
>> I do.
It's great.
Also, it makes
me feel young.
I can just hang
out, you know?
(Laughter)
>>
Ages relative anyway,
isn't it?
>>
I like the idea you
were talking about
earlier, that we
are on a path.
Our lives are
journeys, hopefully
not necessarily
circular journeys,
and you grew up
with your mum and dad
that were politically
involved in their way
, which was different
from your way of being
politically involved.
I don't know how
their way of dealing
with your political
involvement
was, but it must have
been interesting at
the time.
The people who come
after you will behave
in a different
way again.
We kind of anticipate
the ghosts of
ourselves and the
ghosts of those
behind us.
It is not so much
that we leave our
dead behind us, but
that the dead are
also up in front of
us, too, because a
lot of the people that
have become pioneers
are leading the way in
different ways, too,
so would have
expected Audrey to
experience this
renaissance at
the moment?
It is not so much that
she is behind us
Butthead.
but ahead.
We keep getting
to move seats
on the road
,
and time keeps a
different clock,
don't you think?
The clock that is
kept in prison is the
different
clock to the one
taking now.
I suppose I'm
just interested in
that vantage point
for you now, Angela,
that you are the age
you are
, and how you see time
over the course of
your life and into
the future.
It is a bit of a
nebulous question,
but you can
run with it
whichever way
you want.
>> I suppose I do
experience a
different temporality
now, and I don't
know whether
it's simply a result
of having grown older
.
I think that we can
all, regardless of
our age, benefit
from expanded
temporalities
.
We can benefit from
a time that is not
capitalist time
.
This is the first time
we have evoked
capitalism
, is it?
Is it?
That's what we have
been talking about
the whole time.
(Applause) We have
been talking about
it.
But too often we
so take
the products
of capitalism
,
whether it is
capitalist
temporality or
commodities, we so
take them for granted
that we have
difficulty
imagining
a different way
, and so I think
that
it helps
to emancipate oneself
from this notion
that the only
possible
temporality
is measured by the
life of an individual
, that our time
is the time that is
marked between our
birth and death dates
, because, after all,
if we are trying to
change the world, it's
not going to happen
suddenly
.
The clock is not
simply going to stop
and then we enter into
a different dimension
.
People often ask me
about how we felt
about the revolution
in the 1960s.
I said
, yes, of course, we
thought the
revolution was around
the Courier
. corner.
We were convinced
that there was going
to be a revolution.
Now I say I'm
really glad that
the revolution didn't
happen that way,
because we would be
left with the same
problems we are
addressing today.
We would not have
addressed the
pervasiveness of
misogynist
violence
.
It would have been a
masculinist
revolution had
it happened.
>> And it would not
have been televised.
>> It might have
been televised!
But it would not have
been a revolution
that challenged the
gender binary.
It was too early
for that.
What I think
about now
is all of the things
that we can't imagine
at this moment
if then we couldn't
imagine the extent to
which the gender
binary
has been effectively
challenged, at least
among young people
, and, you know, some
older people struggle
enters
what was that you
said about
pronounce?
But if you try to
think about those
things that are not
yet imaginable today
but, by the time
those of you who are
students here
are Jackie's age
or even my age,
you will have
experienced all kinds
of amazing miracles
, and you know, maybe
animals will be
differently treated,
maybe
there will be this
consciousness of the
extent to which the
food that we consume
creates
so much pain
and suffering
.
There are all
kinds of things
that are on the
agenda of the
future
,
and I think if our
temporalities can
expand in such
a way that
allow us to
recognise that
there is the not yet
imaginable, then we
become more convinced
that the work we are
doing at this moment
, at this moment, will
make a difference in
the future
and will help to
shape that future
that we cannot
yet imagine.
>> I think that's
really well said.
I think the
truth is probably
multiple,
and the future
is multiple
,
and maybe at this
moment we can think
about all of the
multiple selves that
we recognise
that go into some of
what made us who we
are
and what makes us
look forward into the
future.
I'm sure that lots of
people in this room,
because of the
extraordinary
response, and we are
going to open this
in a moment to see
what questions you
have from the
audience, and we have
a couple of roving
microphones
, but I'm just going
to ask you one last
question before
we do that.
I'm giving the
microphone people a
wee bit of notice so
they can get into
gear and go, "Oh,
right, it's me, my
turnout!" Just like
microphone people...
(Laughter) I'm just
going to ask one last
question to Angela.
What are you going
to do when
you leave here?
What is your next
thing you are going
on to
?
Where are you
going to go?
We are all curious,
because we will miss
her.
>> I'm going home.
>> You're going home,
and you are just going
to hang out.
(Laughter)
>> No, I'm embarrassed
to say this
,
but I have to have
. what is it called?
Periodontal surgery.
It is just
on one tooth.
Then I have to have
foot surgery .
Gail,
remember when my
foot was hurting?
Yes, so, I had to
schedule the
surgeries at a time
when I would be at
home
for at least two
weeks, and I did that
back in January but
I couldn't figure out
...
I'm going to be at
home for two weeks
and I'm looking
forward to it
.
>> Well, can
I thank you?
This has been an
amazing conversation,
hasn't it?
>> Thank you, thank
you, Jackie
.
(Applause) Can
I give you a hug?
>> OK, so, we are
going to have some
time for some
questions now
so if we can start
from this side
. yes, OK.
>>
Hello...
>>, Can I just say,
we are going to have
really short, precise
questions, and I'm
going to be brutal.
I will stop you.
(Applause)
So, think about it.
>> Thank you so much
for that
conversation.
It was beautiful.
I have a question
about activism and
the Academy.
Somebody on both
sides of that,
what do you think the
relationship between
those should be?
Thank you.
(Applause)
>> Do you want to
answer that question,
Jackie?
>> No, I'm going to
let you answer it.
>> Thank you
for raising it
.
You know, it's not
accidental that
students have been
at the forefront of
revolutionary change
all over the world
.
But it is not as if
the institutions that
constitute
the Academy
are saying
, calling upon you and
telling you that we
will prepare you to
be revolutionaries.
It's always
a struggle
.
I think that it's
absolutely essential
to take that struggle
into these
institutions
, because we
need knowledge
but we also need
to recognise that
universities aren't
the only venues for
the production of
knowledge
, that knowledge gets
reduced in other
sites as well.
. Produced.
Therefore,
the struggle for
interdisciplinary
approaches
to learning
is so important
, and the conception
of
interdisciplinarity
in a broader sense,
not simply the
disciplines, the
existing disciplines
or existing fields
, but recognising
the production of
knowledge in
other places
...
For example, in the
US, we have this
emergent field
, which we refer to as
critical prison
studies
.
It is not from
an allergy
. criminality.
It involves feminist
studies, it involves
black and Latina
studies
, it
involves literature
and so forth.
It is important to
acknowledge that the
knowledge comes from
prisoners themselves.
There are
so many ways
in which we can
be subversive
within these
institutions.
At the same time,
we act almost always
as if there is
this special
relationship
between activists
and the Academy.
We don't talk about
the fact that some
of the same problems
exist in other places
, and other
institutions
, and economic
institutions.
I think
that we often forget
with these academic
institutions
that there are
workers at need to be
involved in the
first place.
(Applause)
Finally,
there is often
the argument
that
this institution does
not allow us to do
the work that we need
to do and that we need
to be outside
and it is always
discussion
about the fact
that we cannot
do it inside,
we need to
be outside.
Is there
truly an outside?
Do we ever really get
outside of the system
?
We will be confronted
with many of the same
problems wherever
we are.
It seems to me
that the point is
to create
struggle wherever we
are, whatever we are
doing.
We do not have
to give up
, we do not have
to capitulate.
Good luck.
(Applause)
>>Thank you.
Hello, Jackie
and Angela.
I organise
with a group called
Sisters
Uncut
.
(Applause)
>>I have got
a geeky
organising question
as well.
We don't do a lot of
funding of activism
here in the UK
but in the United
States I have
noticed
that there is a lot
more money going
around for activism
when we compare
the organising
they are with the
groups we organise
with
here.
There are more paid
activists in the
United States.
They seem to achieve
more and have more
spread but I have
reservations about
that and I want to
produce a Jewish
politics within those
two different
models.
I wonder how it
should be funded.
(Applause)
>>Well,
televised.
>>I was thinking
about this term
that circulates now
which is the
non-profit industrial
complex.
The fact that many
of the foundations
that fund organisations
make certain kinds
of demands
.
There are some
activists
groups
that have decided
to try to find
alternative modes
of funding
.
I was tell the story
that before the
foundation community
emerged,
when we organised
in the
1960s,
the late 1970s,
we raised our
own money.
I was in
an organisation
in Los Angeles
and
one of the
members was in jail
, he is still
in prison now.
We had to raise
$100,000 to get
him out on bail.
We did that in a
relatively short
period of time.
We did it using very
primitive technology.
There was no
Go Fund Me.
I know this sounds
like someone from a
prehistoric age
telling the story,
but we took 10 cans
and got white labels
and pasted them
around the 10 cans
with the slot
in the middle
and we said
, "Rap, rap, rap,"
because he was known
for his rhetorical
skills
and we raise $100,000
within a few
weeks.
We just asked people
to donate.
I'm not saying we
should return to that
either but there
are alternatives
,
there are ways
of earning money
that we obviously
need
if we're going to
do the organising.
You should perhaps
try to follow
the conversations
of those who are
trying to come up
with ways of funding
radical movements
that do not make
them beholden
to the very corporate
structure
which they assume
they are
challenging.
>>OK.
Thank you.
(Applause)
>>There is someone
there at the back,
is there a question?
>>
I did not faint,
or key.
Hello, Prof Davies.
>>I cannot see you.
Where are you?
>>
H
i
.
Hello.
>>I am a teacher.
I am sitting here
with other teachers
and students.
We are trying
to dismantle
the British
school to prison
pipeline over here.
(Applause)
>>
And we are trying
to get
English or British
people
in general to
understand the
world
and the word
'
abolition
'
which seems to be a
very foreign concept.
We always follow in
the footsteps of
America - do you have
any advice of how we
can get through the
British establishment
and also British
hearts and minds?
Thank you.
(Applause)
>>
You know,
there is a
long history
of struggle
around prison issues
and I know
that tomorrow
, can I mention the
symposium tomorrow,
there will be
a presentation
on the campaign
around Holloway
prison.
What I can perhaps
say to you is that
developing that kind
of consciousness
really does require
a lot of work.
It requires a lot
of organising
and being persistent
and it requires
evolution.
When we first
raised the
issue of revolution,
people thought we were
absolutely out
of our minds.
Now it is being
taken seriously.
I think the school
to prison pipeline
is
an important target
because it indicates
the extent to which
what happens behind
bars
, but happens in
jails and prisons
,
is very much
connected
to what is happening
in society
outside.
There is the
inside/outside
relationship and,
as a matter of fact
the real issue
with respect
to abolishing jails
and prisons
, and we can
extend this
to the police
apparatus,
the real question
should not be
focused only
on those institutions
, because if you
simply get rid of
prisons
and don't transform
society
then you will end up
with
another prison -like
form of punishment
.
The question
that is posed by
evolution is this
-
how do we imagine
a society
that no longer
needs to rely
on these institutions
that still rely
on racism
and oppression
and violence
?
What about education
?
What about
healthcare?
What about jobs?
About housing?
It becomes
an occasion
for us to think about
the extent to which
the entire society
needs to be
radically overhauled
.
Of course this may
not happen tomorrow
.
What do we do?
We look at schools and
ask ourselves how it
is that schools
have become
more along the
lines of jails
and why do kids
in black communities,
communities of
colour, poor
communities,
why do they
go to schools
where they are
literally being
taught the discipline
that emanates
from the juvenile
facilities
and the prisons?
We are going to prep
school for prison.
(Applause)
>>And then,
of course, in the US,
and I don't know the
specific situation
here,
but schools in
poor
, black
communities of
colour have got
school resource
officers and these
are officers,
police officers
whose primary loyalty
is to the police
department and not
to the school.
I don't know whether
you have read about
the young girl
in a school
in South Carolina
he was attacked by
a school resource
officer because she
was using herself.
As it turned out, she
had had a death in
the family.
Don't get me started
on this.
I get very, very
angry about the
extent to which there
has almost been
a
merging of the
educational process
and the punishment
process and
education that
appears to
consist
primarily
of disciplining kids
.
>>There are schools
using solitary
confinement a lot
,
giving kids long
periods of keeping
them completely alone.
They take them
out of classrooms
and put them into
other situations.
I was reading in the
papers the other day
that the instances
of using solitary
confinement in schools
has reached epic
proportions and young
people are suffering
real mental health
problems as a result
of having to be
kept completely
on their own with
their phone taken
away.
They have nothing
there at all.
That is a technique,
solitary
confinement.
>>Absolutely.
It is not only
teachers
who have to
be involved.
I think it is great
that you have said
there are teachers on
the balcony.
Can we see the
teachers.
(Applause)
And so
you need to appeal
to parents
and appeal to
students at this
university.
Where is your school?
>>Is London.
(Applause)
-
-
E
as
t
.
>>That is a long
way away.
I think
that, from
what you say,
from what
Jackie says,
the conditions
are really great
for the development
and the kind of
movement that reveals
those connections.
I am reluctant
to give you advice
based on our
experiences
because I think that
organising has to
reflect the
experiences on the
ground in a given
space but we
will certainly
be available if you
have questions and
would like some potent
assistance.
Good luck.
(Applause)
>>
Chloe, on that side,
at the back, is there
any question
over there?
>> There's one here.
>> Yeah, there's a
question over there.
Can you stand
up, please?
>> Thank you very much
for your talk.
It's amazing to
hear you speak.
I'm from Brazil,
and 400 days ago
, 408 days ago,
they murdered
Mario Franco
.
Her phases on our
T-shirts and it
powers us, despite
the fact she was
brutally murdered.
The conjecture
is really bad
.
As we mentioned
, the name we don't
say is the president
of my country
.
Would you have
anything to say for
us as resistors,
as women and
in the memory
of
Muriel Franco
?
Is there a message
to think
and motivate us
at this moment?
Thank you very much.
(Applause)
>>
Thank you so much.
I really appreciate
the fact you have
evoked
her in this space,
because she
represents precisely
all of the struggles
about which we have
been speaking
this evening
.
I have had the
opportunity to
participate eight
in a number of events
that have observed
the first year
anniversary
of her assassination
, and we also
recognise that we
have a great deal
to learn from
the struggles
that are unfolding
in Brazil.
Before the election
of the Persian
we shall not
name in Brazil,
Brazil was really
the hope for a
different future
.
Before the queue and
before the...
Oh, when I think
about it
, I'm just remembering
how excited we were
about the developments
in Brazil
.
In a sense, it was
the same kind of
excitement we had
experienced with
the dismantling of
apartheid, because
there was a moment
when South Africa
really represented
the possibilities
for what they called
a nonracist,
nonsexist,
non-homophobic
society
, and what was so
interesting and what
really remains
interesting about
Brazil is that
black women really
represent the future
, and the black
women's movement
is
the most powerful
social movement
in Brazil
, and Franco
represented
that challenge
to racism, to
police violence,
to homophobia
.
She represented
the hope
of Black feminism,
the colonial
Black feminism.
Now I think about
the US, for example
, and the fact
that you have
I
l
a
n
Om
a
r
, and the fact that
she is an elected
official
who's speaking
out, assuming
radical stances
, she has been
the target
of multiple
death threats
,
and we know that the
other person we shall
not name
has consistently
tweeted
what amount to
attacks against
her
, and I'm glad you
raised this issue,
because it
allows us to
reflect on the work
we need to do
to create
solidarity.
Of course, Jackie, you
come from a family
, a communist family
.
I really like
your father
!
>> I was speaking to
him on the phone.
He is now 94.
He said tonight, "Give
our love to Angela."
For them, they were
so excited, because
they have been part
of international
struggles against
apartheid, for
peace, and that
continues.
I think that is one of
the reasons you are
so important to all
of us, is that
you are an internationalist
.
You make connections
between Brazil and
between Scotland and
between America and
between Palestine
...
It's not all about...
(Applause)
It's not about
the State, not
about the UK.
>> We should also talk
about the British
women's movement,
which is at the
forefront of
revolutionary
struggle.
The reason I
mentioned that
your father
is an old...
I mean
, "Hold"...
>> He will take that.
(Laughter)
>>
Sometimes we forget
that the promises of
the
past should not
be discredited
.
With all of
the problems
that revolved around
Communist parties
and the socialist
countries and other
places, there was this
amazing promise
and a sense of
connectedness
, and we can't
give that up.
We now have
to figure out
how to produce it
for our times.
>> I remember
growing up,
the Chilean
solidarity movement,
for instance, when
lots of Chileans came
to Glasgow, so I
learned to sing
lots of these
Chilean folk songs.
I remember Madame
Allend
e
coming to Glasgow.
She was quite
small and
had
the beautiful
hairstyle.
I just remember all
of these characters
.
Although you lived in
this specific house in
Glasgow,
it was peopled by
the people who came
through the house,
and people came in
and out of your house
in terms of
what you had
contained in your
head and how you
connect with people
outside of your
situation in and
around the world.
I think that sense of
interconnectedness is
very strong definitely
here today
, and it gives you
hope, because you
can, in this political
climate, sometimes
get to feeling
depressed by the
state of affairs
, but something like
this makes you think,
"No, there's ways
of going forward."
>> I keep thinking
that
those of us
who experience
that solidarity
in that time
need to learn
how to talk
about the emotions
that were produced,
the fact that
you sent me a
good night kiss
means that you
felt connected
,
and I think the kinds
of global solidarity
is that we need today
that we
...
That we are first and
foremost individuals,
that we are
disconnected
from
our neighbours, and
certainly we have no
idea who lives
in other parts
of the world
.
How do we learn
how to offer support
to Kurdish women
who are not only
at the forefront
of the revolution
, the larger social
revolution,
but are teaching us
that women do that
work because
it is women who are
going to change the
world
.
(Applause)
And, of course, when
I say "Women", I mean
women in the broadest
possible terms.
I mean
trans women,
women of colour
...
(Applause)
I think that
men
, those whose
gender identity
uses that category,
should be excited, to
o
,
because, my God, men
have had to carry this
terrible burden
of being much oh
macho
.
Look at all the
violence in the war
that has come from
that construction of
masculinity.
What about the men in
the audience . aren't
you happy that we are
leading the way
towards something?
When we say
that this is
the time of the
rise of women
, women
never struggle only
for themselves
.
It is for everybody.
>> I have a feminist
son, and I love
having a feminist
son and watching
the change that is
taking place in his
life and his ways of
embracing being a
feminist,
which is an
extraordinary thing.
He has made a film
about a strong woman
called Little Miss
Sumo, about a woman
sumo wrestler.
It's funny to be
a mum of a son like
that, seeing the ways
to be a man.
I remember when
he was 14
and he said, "Matty,
it's cool having a
lesbian mum." He said,
"It's not, it's not
true at all.
It would be cool to
have a lesbian Gran."
(Laughter) I told
this to my mum and
she said, "What am
I expected to do?"
(Laughter)
"Change my sexuality
at this stage in the
game?"
>> OK, we have one
more question.
Stand up, thank you.
>>
My name is
U
m
ma
r
.
We are from the
Goldsmiths antiracist
cooperation.
I just wanted to say
this is the first
black student
, the AME-
led
protests
so far.
Everybody in the
occupation loves you
and
we appreciate being
to meet you.
My question is
regarding the
occupation.
My question is
we have various
demands, and the
stuff that we have
gone through,
white-that occupations
in our university
, never had to
go through.
Two of our demands
, one was regarding
Palestinian
scholarships.
We wanted to reinstate
the Palestinian
scholarship but the
senior management
team, who we
communicate with,
directly led
to our faces
.
I feel, yes, it
is because we are
BAME
students.
We are on day 43 and
everybody is getting
exhausted and we
really want to keep
focus on the demands
and to be successful,
so I was wondering if
you have any tips or
advice on regrouping
people's focus on how
to escalate in a
situation where they
are waiting for us to
exhaust ourselves and
go home?
Thank you so much
for listening.
(Applause)
>> First of all,
congratulations
and thank you for the
work you are doing.
I don't know
whether I have
advice
that would be
helpful, but I'm
thinking
of the top of
my head that
, first of all, you
should demand the
reinstating of
the scholarships
for Palestinian
students.
Is this for students
from Palestine?
Have you thought about
an exchange?
There are a lot of
universities in
Palestine and if you
put an exchange in
place where some
students would
go to Palestine
then they could not
claim you were
singling out
a particular group
of people for
scholarships.
They have a good
feminist studies
program their
.
Have you looked
into that at all?
That is just
one suggestion
.
It is really
important to be
persistent and
be creative.
You should not accept
the institutional
response
because there
are always ways
in which
those positions
can be changed.
What are the
other demands?
>>We have a
list on our
Twitter and
Facebook page.
We want to look into
the attainment gap
between white
students and their
black counterparts.
(Applause)
>>Thank you.
We also want to bring
security in-house
because the
majority are
black security guards
and that he no.
-
-
Let you know.
We want to bring
security
in-house because
we do not give them
the London
living wage
and
they are not allowed
to eat in the canteen
with the students.
We also want to have
black councillors
in the mental
well-being team
because the services
that they have
only support
white people.
Where are the black
councillors?
Also,
many international
students have
committed
suicide and many
have complained
that whenever they
have tried to talk
about black issues
or seminar leaders
being disrespectful
or using the N
word in lectures
, because we have told
them not to use it
because we don't feel
comfortable, nothing
is done about it.
Students feel like
they are stressed
out.
Imagine you are in
a fight or flight
situation but you
cannot fight it and
you cannot leave
because you need your
degree and you are
consistently first and
there is nothing
there and no
councillors
understand.
There are so many
other demands.
>>Thank you.
That gives me a sense
of the work that you
are doing.
I think that it
is important
in all of the
struggles
to call for
structural
change.
To frequently
demands have focused
on issues
that can be construed
as assimilation
,
that institutions
are simply asked
to bring in those
who were previously
marginalised
, and that is a
diversity approach,
and I don't love you
want to use the term
'diversity', '
inclusion'
?
Diversity and
inclusion are the
watchwords
of educational
systems
and the corporate
world everywhere.
This is because it
is easy for them to
diversify and include
as long as the
apparatus keeps
functioning
in exactly the same
way that it functions.
That is why people
are marginalised.
(Applause)
It is so important
to include demands
that cover
transformation, that
call for structural
change,
that call for justice
.
If you are going to
call for diversity,
say diversity and
justice, inclusion
and transformation.
Good luck with
your struggle.
(Applause)
>>We will have one
final question.
>>
Hello, Jackie
and Angela.
Mine is a
straightforward
question.
It is an invitation
to everybody
who is here
and to yourself
in particular,
Angela,
if you are back
on the UK
on the 14th of any
month because there
is a current struggle
going on
in the name of the 72
people who lost their
lives in the Grenfell
Tower.
(Applause)
Every single part
of British society
failed the people who
lived in that tower.
It is very difficult
because we're coming
up to the
two-year anniversary
and it is difficult to
keep going and keep
the energy up within
the group but if
you were in the UK
on the 14th
of any month
, because we know it
will be a long and
hard struggle,
and we see the
establishment waiting
for us to be forgotten
, but
we want the energy
to be kept going
so anybody,
your struggle
is our struggle
and if you
have children
then they go to
schools where that
cladding is on
those buildings
.
If you go to
hospitals, it is on
those hospitals.
Anywhere that you go,
that cladding that
contributed to the
deaths of 72 people,
this is your struggle.
I believe that is the
interconnectivity
that we have been
hearing about today.
It is an invitation
to both of you if you
happen to be around to
please come and join
us on the 14th
of any month.
Anybody.
Anybody.
In fact,
the survivors
recognise
that not everybody
can make it to London
at 7 PM on the 14th
of any month so they
encourage people to
have their own silent
vigils in their own
towns, the spaces.
They will recognise
work and support.
Thank you.
(Applause)
>>
Do you want to take
one last question?
>>We have one question
over here.
And then we
have one more.
>>Are low.
Thank you.
-
-
Hello.
I am a trustee
of a charity
based in Leeds and
we are the Racial
Justice Network.
(Applause)
My question actually
was
that you only
have to go on
Twitter
to know that the
patriarch is having a
bit of a difficult
time.
Are we reaching
the endgame
of capitalism?
>>I wish.
I really wish.
I really wish.
I do think
that we are
witnessing
the contradiction
s
that might help us to
speed up the process
.
You know,
I think I will
use your question
as an opportunity
to speak about
the way
in which the
global campaign
against misogynist
violence
does not always focus
sufficiently
on structural issues
.
There is still
somehow the
assumption that
these men
do what they do
because they
are defective.
Also, that the
punishment has to
focus
primarily on
the individual
-
they lose their
jobs, go to jail,
River.
It seems to me
that
the fact that
in the struggle
against racism
we have reached the
point where there
is a popular
understanding of
the institution
of racism, the
structural
dimension of racism
, and we cannot simply
assume
that racism
is the product
of individual
attitudes.
"You are a racist,
go to and unlearning
racism workshop."
We are learning now
that it is about a
lot more than that.
Why can't we use
that insight
to understand that
misogynist violence,
which is
the most
endemic kind of
violence in the
world, is embedded
in the very
structures
of a capitalist
patriarchal society
?
(Applause)
How do we begin
to translate
that
into our practice
,
into our activism
.
I think that is
the question
.
Capitalism
is in bad shape.
Capitalism is in
really good shape, I
mean.
People are
in bad shape.
We can consider that
the concentration of
wealth is unlike
anything that
anyone could have
ever imagined.
A few billionaires
have control over
more wealth than 50%
of the population of
the planet.
It is ridiculous.
I think that in the
process of doing this
work against racism,
misogyny,
, phobia
-
-
homophobia
, for the environment,
we have not really
been able to speak
about the centrality
of environmental work.
It is ground zero of
social justice work
.
(Applause)
>>If the environment
is destroyed,
it will make no sense
that we will
have finally
purge the world of
racism or misogyny
.
We will have no place
to go.
That makes sense.
I think that what
we need to do
is do the work that
we can do right now.
It can happen
in so many ways
.
It is not just
the traditional
activists
.
We assume
activists
are the ones
who spent 24 hours
doing activist work,
right?
And yes, that
happens.
But,
you can do it
within any context.
You can share ideas.
Part of the struggle
, the essential
element of the
struggle, it is
ideological.
It is changing
people's likes,
helping people to
recognise the degree
to which thoughts that
we assume are their
own thoughts
are actually
the ideas
that emanate
from the state
and we are
really doing
the state's work.
(Applause)
I know that this is
the last question.
I am sitting here
thinking that this
has been such a
wonderful
conversation
and I am so happy
that I had the
opportunity
to speak to
Jackie Kay because
she is amazing.
(Applause)
I looked at her
as a writer
and her beautiful
poetry
and her amazing
novels
and memoirs
and I know that
you're happy doing
the work that you do -
I can see it by the
way that you smile
that you love it.
Even though it might
be hard, you love the
work that you
are doing.
At the same time, you
are using that work
to help advance the
struggle for global
justice.
I think that is what
we all have to do.
We have got to ask
ourselves how we can
consume it doing
the work
--
continue doing the
work that most
consumes us.
If you don't, you
will do it for a
couple of years and
you will leave it
behind.
Figuratively
--
figure out
a way you can
look after yourself.
>>Look after ourselves
why we do it.
Try to look after
ourselves.
I think you will all
agree it has been an
absolute pleasure, a
blast, a complete
dream come true.
I have to pinch
myself several
times sitting on
this wicker chair
talking to the
wonderful,
dynamic,
mesmerising,
courageous
, true
and lovely
Angela Davis.
(Applause)
>>Thank you
very much.
Thank you to all
of you for your
energy.
We will see you soon.
We do not
say goodbye.
Thank you, everyone.
(Applause)
