Frankie: You're listening to Graphic Novel
Explorers Club podcast, an audio book
club.
Dennis: Greetings, Explorers.
I'm one of your hosts,
Dennis, joined by...
What?
Johnny: For the listener,
he pointed at himself.
I
Dennis: pointed at,
Johnny: you
No, you went like this,
Dennis: like this.
Johnny: I'm Johnny.
Frankie: You should say Dennis,
like in three different ways.
Johnny: We're keeping that one.
We're keeping that one.
I'm Johnny
Dennis: and.
Frankie: Frances,
Dennis: and today we're discussing the
League of Extraordinary Gentlemen from
America's best comics by writer Alan
Moore and artists Kevin O'Neill.
We hope you already read today's title
because all three of us have read the
book.
So beware -- spoilers ahead.
Explorers can share their opinions and
thoughts with us by leaving a comment on
our Facebook page or over on Twitter
and Instagram at GNExlplorers.
Johnny: So the League of Extraordinary
Gentlemen was published in 1999.
I thought it was a little
older than that, but...
So
Dennis: did I.
Especially considering the fact that the
movie came out around 2003 that's actually
a really quick turn around.
Johnny: Yeah.
And for a book that I wasn't
aware of until the movie.
Right.
Like so, I dunno.
Anyways, since the first story
Moore and Kevin O'Neill have.
I continued the series of several books
and some site adventures with Captain
Nemo.
Dennis: Not as many as I thought though.
Johnny: There's three, there's three with
Captain Nemo, and then I think there's
five additional Extraordinary League with
Mina as the main character, which brings
us to the series concerns.
A group of 19th century superheroes taken
from the literature of the Victorian era.
This group is comprised of Wilamena "Mina"
Murray from Dracula, who was married to
Jonathan Harkin is the character's
name, right from, from "Dracala"?
"Dracala" by...
"semicolon, Bite Your Neck"?
Keanu
Dennis: Reeves?
Johnny: Whoa.
I am from Victorian era England.
Dennis: Stab him in the heart
Johnny: Stab
Dennis: him...
Frankie: How dare both of you.
That was a masterpiece.
Johnny: I love.
I love that.
I love
Dennis: Bram Strokers
Johnny: Bram Stoker's Dracula
by a Frances Ford Coppola.
I guess it should be Frances Ford
Coppola's: Bram Stoker's Dracula.
Uh, I really love that movie a lot.
Except for Keanu in that movie, just is
the fatal flaw in that movie, there's so
many visual effects that were done.
Um, there are so many practical effects
were done on that movie, and I love it.
I really got to watch it.
But whenever Keanu shows up.
Hey there, Dracula.
Get away from my wife.
Frankie: 15-year-old Frances is not happy
with you right now, 'cause she thought
Keanu did great.
Johnny: Yeah, he was.
He deserves an Academy Award.
But anyways, uh, the other characters are
Alan Quartermaine from the King Solomon
books.
Or you may know the character from the
movie starting the two movies starring
Richard Chamberlain.
Dennis: Chamberlain always
like weirded me out.
Did he ever weird you out?
Like, wasn't he like in
those mini series on TV?
Like where he's like a priest?
Thorn Birds.
Yeah.
So ever since then it was
like, Oh, that's weird.
Like a priest falling in
love and all that stuff.
So I like always thought he was creepy.
Frankie: And very telling of what was
happening in the Catholic church, but
nobody realized.
Johnny: Yeah.
Cause in the book, I think.
She's like a teenager and he's in his
thirties when they first get together.
Captain Nemo from 20,000
Leagues Under the Sea, Dr.
Jekyll and Mr.
Hyde from the Strange Case of Dr.
Jekyll and Mr.
Hyde and Griffin AKA, the Invisible
Man from The Invisible Man.
In addition to these characters, there
are tons that show up from other literary
works, including the Sherlock Holmes
series, Fu Manchu, so books by Edgar Allen
Poe, a ton by HG Wells.
Dennis: I'm pretty sure.
Was it the cast of Oliver appears in it?
Johnny: The artful Dodger is when things
start to go Harry towards the end of the
book.
Yeah, so America's best comics was started
as an imprint, basically just for Kevin
O'Neill, and from my understanding, what I
read and Alan Moore at at sort of the push
from Jim Lee.
Jim Lee was like, you should.
Dennis: Oh cause like it was so hot,
like Jim just came off of Image...
Making Image Comics.
Frankie: There's just been so much name
dropping and like two minutes, like I
fully forgot like what we're
Johnny: even here for.
Dennis: And then Jesus.
Frankie: So when America's Best
Comics is at a publishing house,
Johnny: it's an imprint made
just for like Alan Moore and
Kevin O'Neill publish these books.
Frankie: Because when Dennis said it in
the intro, I was like, that's a strong
opinion, Dennis.
Like, we don't normally
Dennis: is terrible.
Yeah.
Frankie: So thank you
for the clarification.
Johnny: Yeah, sorry.
But yeah, there's a lot of name
dropping in here and almost all of these
characters, I believe,
are in the public domain.
In later series, James Bond shows
up, but he's called "Jimmy Bond".
He, they don't even call him Bond.
He's just Jimmy, and it's an Campion Bond
in this story, who we'll get into is his
grandfather.
So that's kind of the connection
to like, Oh, he's James Bond.
Harry Potter even shows up what later?
But he's just ridiculous.
He's like the antichrist and it's never
referred to directly as Harry Potter, but
it's
Frankie: just the Boy with the Scar.
Johnny: Yeah, basically.
Basically I
Dennis: want to read those.
Johnny: I've read most of the series.
Some of them are really good.
Some of them are okay.
Some are bad because just Alan
Moore not even doing a comic book.
It's just a story, which I don't know.
When I read a comic, I
want to read a comic book.
Dennis: Which makes it even funnier that
Sean Connery was in the movie because the
Bond character was in there.
I was wondering his
connection to the James
Johnny: Bond.
But they, that movie has nothing
to do with this book really.
So anyways, our story opens on the White
Cliffs of Dover in 1898 with Mina wearing
a long red blood red scarf.
Did you guys have any thoughts about
her scarf when it first showed up or
Dennis: if she took it off
her head would fall off?
Frankie: So what I thought, and this was
like, okay, this is my biggest complaint
about comic books and I
won't reveal the thing.
So, I thought it was going to like
throw out this very long book.
Okay.
This is a lot of pages and it's a lot of
talking, like I was like cheeses, so I
thought they're gonna, there's gonna
be this big reveal about her scarf.
And admittedly I skimmed as always, I
didn't see a big reveal, so I had to go
Wikipedia stuff.
And I'm like, you know what?
As a, as an author, you should resolve
any questions that your audience has.
Johnny: Well, counterpoint to that though,
is it was clearly set up for a sequel, and
that's where it's revealed in the sequel.
Frankie: That's a good point.
But if I don't like your book enough to
read the sequel, you failed, and they
failed.
Dennis: Well, you know, I would say
the, the shots fired the scarf isn't
necessarily a failure.
I mean, it's a tease that
maybe pays off later.
It's kind of like Mr.
Hyde's Predator-vision, like.
You're like, that's like
a Chekhov's gun, right?
I mean he's looking, I can
see the invisible man, but
Johnny: he didn't realize about it.
Dennis: Utilize about, and it's never pays
off in this one, but I'm sure it does.
Johnny: Yeah, it pays off in the second.
Yeah.
Frankie: Well, I'll tell, I'll tell the
audience, so when we get to our wrap up,
what the red scarf
Johnny: represents.
Ah, okay.
Frankie: Cause I,I Wikipedia'd it.
Dennis: I had a Wikipedia a lot because
admittedly I'm not the best reader.
If you want to get the Easter eggs.
In in and understand some of the context.
You have to understand a lot of these
characters, and I've read like Sherlock
Holmes, but I haven't read everything.
I haven't actually read read
Dracula, which I want to do.
I actually, this book I will say inspired
me to want to read some of these books,
the source material
Johnny: This Victorian
era literature, but I'm
Frankie: Dennis hit on a good point.
I want to get too far off track
because you're just at the intro.
Johnny: We've been off track,
Frankie: if you don't know
these characters well.
You miss half the story like you, you,
it's almost expected that you, that this
is written for a more sophisticated
audience that has the depth of knowledge.
Like I kind of knew who Captain Nemo was
and then Lord helped me when I Googled the
red scarf, I went down
this Wikipedia spiral hole.
I was like, I'm not going down it.
Like, I don't care enough
about these people.
Johnny: You went from the red
scarf to the Red Shoes Diary.
Frankie: Exactly.
Like, but man, I got the
answer that I wanted, but.
Hey.
The other thing though, I will say in
their defense, you don't have to know,
like you can still follow
along with the story.
Johnny: Yeah.
I think that's the point was like Alan
Moore is so knowledgeable about all these
characters and there's, there is
just Easter eggs littered everywhere.
There are people who are into that and
they want to, it's like people who play
video games and they want
to get every single award.
You know, they're, that's all
they want to do is complete that.
And they, and you know, those types of
readers will go in here knowing what all
these references are.
My opinion is you don't need to know
them and you can still enjoy the story.
Dennis: Even side victims are
actually literary characters.
Johnny: Yeah, yeah.
We'll get to it.
But Pollyanna is a victim
of rape in the story.
And you know, that's, she's a minor,
minor, minor character in the story.
But Poll...
The Pollyanna series is.
Was loved by like our grandparents
and older generations.
So anyways, the story starts off in 1898
in England, we're introduced to Mina and
her red scarf, Campion Bond, who, as I
said, is the, is the grandfather James
Bond.
One of the things I noticed that
Campion wears a lot of rings and there's
characters that show up throughout
the, throughout this series that.
Are like camping where they're
manipulators and they control situations
and they'll wear a ton of rings.
And Alan Moore's wears a lot of rings.
So I wonder if that's like a
homage to him that Kevin does.
Frankie: That doesn't surprise me.
The author would make
an homage to himself.
Johnny: I think.
I think the artists did.
Oh, I'm going to, you know, Alan Moore's
the manipulator of these characters, so
I'm gonna, I'm gonna make him.
Frankie: Yeah, that's a good Easter egg.
Something.
I didn't even notice
Johnny: it.
It's not something you would notice, but
I've read all of the series and I noticed
it popping up.
On this read.
I haven't read the first book in a really
long time, and I had recently read the
most recent book to be published.
I was like, Oh, that
guy's wearing rings too.
In the end, he looked, this later
character actually looks like Alan Moore
with a big crazy beard.
Anyways, so Campion is putting together
this League of Extraordinary Gentlemen,
although that's not what they're called,
right up front, to stop this secret menace
that could basically
destroy the English empire.
There's a lot of stuff in these
series that is about women's rights.
Yeah.
Criticism of English
Colonialism, they're there.
These things pop up throughout the series
Dennis: and it seems like this
league has happened before.
Cause wasn't there an old picture
where it had Davy Crockett
Johnny: and it wasn't Davy Crockett.
It was Natty from Last...
Last of the Mohicans.
Oh, it looks like Davey Crockket, it's
not, it's Natty, Natty, whatever his name
is.
Yeah.
And there was a later series actually
referenced past, like Orlando from the
story o!, he, she pops up in different
times and it was like in the Greek era.
Dennis: Oh,
Johnny: version.
Virgin.
A Greek league of extraordinary element.
Yeah.
There's lots of things that are planted
in the story that pay off later.
So yeah, if you're, if you're,
like Frances was saying.
If you don't like this book, all these
little Easter eggs they get planted later
that pay off.
You're like, the fuck was all this shit.
Why is shit in here?
So I get your frustration,
Frankie, about about like what?
What is all this crap?
What is all this crap that I gotta
pour through just to get the straight?
And it is a long book and it is like the
Watchmen, it's very, very dialogue heavy.
Frankie: But this is too soon to say this.
So at this point.
I kinda got the Jess.
Okay, they're going to go form this group.
Well, I
Johnny: thought,
Frankie: yeah, I thought it was
going to be groups of superheroes.
The superheroes are kind of like not super
heroes, like as as you're going along and
collecting, which we'll get into, and I
was like, Oh, I was like, these people,
excuse my language.
A bunch of a-holes.
Dennis: Like
Frankie: the League of
Extraordinary A-holes.
Dennis: Well, honestly, they're in some
cases not like what is written on the
page, the way it's written on the pages
of the comic book, fictionalized version.
Of them, and then these are the
real people behind the story, so
Frankie: I'll let you get
into those as they go.
Johnny: Yeah.
Mina is sort of in poor standing with the
public because Campion mentions that she
was attacked by a foreigner.
The public thinks she was sexually
assaulted and they like throw a Scarlet A
on her, basically for that, which is not.
Not her fault, but they're actually
referencing the fact that she was attacked
by Dracula and
Frankie: which they don't
make clear in the book though.
Dennis: No, Nope.
No,
Johnny: it is, yeah.
It's alluded to and it's talked about
which, and, and the Dracula story is
actually written about, and Frankenstein
is too, about fear of others.
That's really what it was about was the
Victorian-era fear of like these people.
You would think over a hundred years ago,
we would have gotten over this shit, but
now it still continues today.
Fear of the other.
So Mina believes that Campion's boss who's
putting this together is actually Mycroft
Holmes, which is Sherlock
Holmes, his brother.
But we find out later it's not.
So she's given the task of you need to
go to Cairo and get Alan Quartermaine...
Quartermaine, who would she, she gets
there by way of the Nautilus, which is
Captain Nemo's submarine.
Frankie: Just you two are like, or
like, it's such geeking out right now.
Like it's cute.
Like has his face lighting up.
Like if that's the
name, that's the name of
Dennis: which I love Captain Nemo's.
By the way.
That's fucking bad
Johnny: ass.
And how they do like the
ship, how it looks like a.
Like from the Disney
movie where the octopus...
Well, I'm sure it's in the story too,
where the giant squid attacks the ship,
but they actually incorporate
it until I have it.
How the arms will, can, can grab people.
And it was pretty neat.
Frances loves that we're
geeking out over here.
So a month goes by or so, and she gets
to to Cairo and finds Alan Quartermaine,
who's just in the depths
of a heroin addiction.
While she's there trying to recruit them
into this mission she's nearly raped by
two men.
Dennis: Yeah.
Okay.
So this starts my problem with the book.
There's a couple things.
So overall.
Not really spoilery but you know, the
book pulls from old source material, but
instead of trying to put a modern veneer
on it in a modern take, and maybe a more,
to use the phrase "Woke"-kind of
perspective, it actually, I feel like
dives into like a stereotype.
So the people who almost rape her...
Johnny: Are Egyptians...
Dennis: Are Egyptians and
they're drawn horrifically.
They're drawn very stereotypically and.
I thought she was more of a bad ass.
Maybe it's my perspective from the movie.
She seems almost to like
she's going to let it happen.
I don't know.
Like you would think she'd fight
Johnny: battle on one.
He's going to let it happen,
Dennis: but she just kind of,
Johnny: two men are holding her down.
Dennis: She was more of a badass.
Frankie: I will say.
I think that that's what a
lot of them have to deal with.
Like why couldn't you fight it off?
Or why couldn't you like, I mean,
two guys are holding her down.
There's, there's not much she can
Dennis: do.
A regular person, but she's, I assume like
Frankie: you're thinking like the
superhero, she should have like a hidden
Dennis: skill or she's like
kick someone's ass or something.
Johnny: She's not though.
She's just, and in fact, that's one of the
criticisms that goes throughout the story
is like
Frankie: why did you
constantly almost raped,
Johnny: right?
Yeah.
Dennis: This is just a series of like,
let's put this character in a sexual
assault situation.
Yeah.
Frankie: I get what you're saying.
And I will say, when I first got to the
scene, because I'm kind of a diva, I was
like, I was like, you know, like I said,
I wasn't gonna read any more rape stories,
but I was like, I'm just gonna
get through this one panel.
And then I'm glad I stuck with it cause
I was just like, cause it's pretty, um...
It's a violent scene.
Johnny: Yeah.
It's really violent
Dennis: and it's not the only one
in this book and we'll get to it.
Johnny: But yeah, as I was saying, one of
the criticisms that the team has about her
is like, she's a schoolmarm.
What the fuck is she doing on our team?
Right.
That makes sense.
Maybe you guys miss that, but
Dennis: I got that part, but I assumed
that she had, I guess I do because I
hadn't read Dracula, and
I don't remember her part.
I assume she was one of the dracula
slayers are hunters, so that's why I
thought she would be more
Frankie: God.
She's a Buffy kind of
Dennis: character.
Johnny: Yeah.
Most of them don't have any
extraordinary abilities.
Quartermaine is like an expert shot, but
he's, he doesn't have any super abilities.
Jekyll becomes Hyde, which is,
he's like the Hulk of this group.
Nemo is just has a vehicle.
He's the driver.
Basically.
Pretty...
He
Dennis: doesn't
Johnny: have any super,
Dennis: you have a good gun.
Johnny: Yeah.
Yes.
Technology.
And then the invisible
man is the invisible one.
So there's only like two thirds of the,
or not even that, a two-fifths of the team
that actually able to have any
sort of extraordinary ability.
However, as the story progresses.
In, in future volumes, things change
about what they're able to do.
So they book it out.
So yeah,
Frankie: the heroin guy
like steps in and saves her.
Dennis: Right.
He fires
Frankie: his gun.
Still unclear.
Had they already started
raping her or not?
Johnny: No.
Cause her bloomers were still,
Frankie: has the rape already
Dennis: started
Johnny: or, okay.
I'm a little, technically it
has, but there hasn't been any.
And titration.
Just the emotional and assault.
Quatermain kills one of them and then she
kills the other one that's about to kill
Alan.
They run off to the Nautilus and Nemo's
there waiting for him and he kills one of
the guys with like this
crazy harpoon gun, right?
Once they get on board, the ship
Quartermaine is locked away so they can
basically, he talks detox, which he
winds up when they get to France.
This actually.
Which is their next destination.
Once they pick up on Quartermaine,
they're supposed to go and recruit.
This doctor, who we
come to find out is Dr.
Jekyll and Mr.
Hyde, and once they're in Paris recruiting
this doctor, Alan Quartermaine, his
addiction fires back up.
Dennis: Although I had hoped that this
would be a running thread because is real,
especially how deep he was.
Addiction is really hard to shake.
I feel like he fell back again in Paris.
And he was drinking some booze but then I
Johnny: don't, wasn't
booze as the Delaudanum.
Oh, okay.
Yeah.
Dennis: But he's still,
it never came up again.
Johnny: Cause they talk about it several
times after and that's why he goes to a
pharmacy.
Right.
He doesn't, he doesn't go
to a bar to a pharmacy.
But.
Dennis: I assumed he would be struggling
with it throughout the whole thing and he
kind of basically, sobers up.
Johnny: Even though the story is long,
once, once they recruit the team, things
happen within like a day.
Right.
Getting the team together.
It takes a couple months, but once the
team is together, their plan of action
happens very, very quickly.
Dennis: I just assumed they
would hamper him throughout.
Like, you know, he needs it.
Johnny: Yeah, yeah.
Yeah.
So in Paris, they meet a detective who's
actually from a Edgar Allen Poe stories,
The
Dennis: Murders in the Rue
Johnny: Morgue.
The detective is like a, I know.
I know where the doctor is,
I think I know who it is.
If you guys can also help me.
There's been this like ape beast thing
that's been killing women in the s...
In the series.
Frankie: Wait, did they say
that it was an ape-beast thing?
I thought there's like a
serial killer on the list.
They said,
Johnny: yeah,
Frankie: this is what
happens when you skim
Johnny: it.
Originally he like, they even make a
reference to a Jack the Ripper, but he's
like, this one's different because it
looks like their bodies have just been
crushed and people have reported like
this giant creature fleeing from the area.
Dennis: Which is funny.
One of the murder victims, once again, I
was just kind of randomly like looking up
stuff is another
character from a different
Johnny: several,
Dennis: the, she's a famous
prostitute or something like that.
Johnny: There's so many.
We can't go down and this be like a two
hour show if we talked about every single.
Easter, a character that pops up in this,
but because all of these victims have been
sex workers, they make a plan to basically
put Mina in harm's way as the bait.
Dennis: Dress up like a prostitute.
Johnny: On the night of this sting, that's
when Alan sees the pharmacy and decides to
go in there and get some,
Dennis: he's in charge of like looking
for her and then she disappears.
Johnny: Laudanum not Dilaudidem.
Laudanum.
She disappears when he
comes back with his bottle.
This, this other detective is able to suss
out by talking to the people of the night
where she's at, where they think she went.
So they get to the room
and is freaked out.
She's like, he's in there, but
Dennis: I thought I could take him.
Johnny: Yeah.
So what Alan goes in there to get them
Hyde comes out basically, and he looks
like an ape creature.
Frankie: So it looked too though.
Before, like the ape creature came out.
It looked like she'd
been sexually assaulted.
Like her stress trap is ruined.
Her face is kind of bloodied,
so he couldn't tell again.
I was like, okay, was she raped?
Was she not
Johnny: raped?
Frankie: Yeah.
So yeah.
Then, and then I was also like, why
did you think you could take him?
You almost got raped at the other thing,
Johnny: like outcomes Hyde, and in the
scuffle, Quartermaine shoves his bottle
down in hides mouth and.
Basically knocks him the hell out, right.
Falls out of the window.
They go down there and that's what mean
is like who went in that room was not the
same person that came out,
so they get back on Nautilus.
Dennis: He's missing an ear, too, right?
Johnny: Somehow they were shooting.
The French detective shot him
and it tore off as a year.
So after they get Hyde, they
returned back to England.
Frankie: So here's my question.
Yeah.
Before we start.
And this, cause this
will involve all of them.
So we kind of know Hyde
is a killer, right?
And he's not a good guy.
So why do they want him on the team?
Johnny: They don't make a
decision in any of this.
This is Campion putting this team
together, which we come to find out.
Skipping way ahead.
Yeah.
The reason that this team was put
together, it was because, Moriarty wanted
this, this device that can basically
defy gravity to attack his opponents
Frankie: because
Johnny: cause a Fu Manchu and, uh,
Moriarty basically control the, the
criminal world.
One controls like the East one
controls the West side and un-...
Unknown to the, or?
No, actually it's not the English.
The English government wants them.
Once Campion to be in charge of the
underworld so that basically he can
control it for them.
But what they don't know is he wants
to use this for his own purposes.
And then he talks about that.
He's like, am I a criminal in
charge of secret intelligence?
Or.
Am I a secret intelligence agent
in charge of the criminal world?
And, and you know, he T he, he's
like, there's no distinction there.
Basically, I haven't closed.
So back in England, we learned that the
story's taking place several years after
Sherlock Holmes died.
And because of that, the empire.
The English empire is under constant
threat, which come from other books from
that era, which we won't get into because
there's like eight of them that he shows
examples of.
Their next assignment is to go to this all
girls school, which is run by Rosa Coot
where these three immaculate conceptions.
Dennis: Yeah, I hated this chapter.
Johnny: Yeah.
This is definitely one of
those characters that like.
Okay.
I guess I get where you're getting cause
is the power of visibility, but like at
what costs are you?
Well,
Dennis: he's already raped because
they have had immaculate conceptions.
It's
Johnny: three of them already.
Dennis: So he's raped
these and they're girls.
Johnny: They think because of the era that
they're in, that like God is actually, or
some heavenly creature's
actually impregnated them.
Dennis: And so once we get to the scene.
Where the character who's being raped
currently in front of the other girls
who's Pollyanna, who Pollyanna
is an archetype that I knew of.
I didn't realize it was a book, but it's
an art type of like a character who's like
always optimistic and always positive
for that particular character.
To be raped is like horrifying on so many
different levels and I don't know, I just,
I felt it was like completely unnecessary.
I understand you wanted to show that the
invisible man is not a good character.
There's several times where the invisible
man, and I haven't read the book, so I
don't know, but I know.
Johnny: No, he's a, he's a bad guy.
The invisible man's story is considered
one of the first science horror stories
ever.
Gotcha.
And typically in line with like Alien,
right.
Dennis: And then typically the invisible
man movies I've seen, he is depicted as a
criminal or he goes insane and becomes a
criminal of some sort, but I don't, once
again, this is what, the second, third.
Active sexual violence, and
now it's against teenagers.
It's just, I don't know, I just like, my
stomach was churning this whole part and
then the have it, like...
Johnny: Very graphic
Dennis: to have it so lurid, like she's in
the air while he's humping her and then in
front of the, all these
other girls, I don't know.
It's just, it was this kind of disgusting.
Johnny: Yeah.
Oh, I agree.
Dennis: And I understand.
You want to betray him is disgusting.
You see later on in this volume, he's
not above killing innocent people or just
ditching his teammates, but I just, I felt
it was totally unnecessary to have this
chapter.
Frankie: I did think it was kind of
interesting the way that they captured
him, even though I agree with everything
you said, they threw the paint on him
because I had no idea what was going on.
I was like, ah.
Johnny: That's where Mina is definitely
the leader of this team and she's so much
quicker thinking that anybody on the team,
so Alan and Mina pose as a couple that
want to adopt.
No, they want to enroll their
daughter at this school.
The honor
Frankie: enroll their daughter
then take another one home
Johnny: and Nemo is posing as their
servant, which I love what he, what he has
to say about that later, and while they're
there, that's when this, this sexual
assault on Pollyanna happens.
The two minute train of fight them.
Mina just.
Splashes paint on them, the Knox amount
with the paint can with, so yeah, it was
like much, she's, she's like, yeah, I
can't physically overcome these people.
I'll use my brain as my power.
So they knocked this guy out, drag him
back to the ship, or actually back to
their headquarters.
And this is basically where the team
finds out they're tasked with getting this
material called "Cavorite", which is
from another, I believe, HG Wells story.
And this material can defy gravity.
And they're tasked with going to the
Limehouse, which is the area in London.
But then we get the
Dennis: actual Fu Manchu, who's like all
the, all the drawings are super racist and
actually seem of the era.
So that's one thing I talked about before,
but I do understand like you could have
set it up where like the English people
have this stupid stereotype of, you know,
the Yellow Peril, but you didn't actually
have to draw the characters like they're
racist creatures.
So I was appalled.
They're like, what are you doing here?
Why are all the Chinese people looking
like they came from a racist poster?
Frankie: Yeah, they did.
Yeah.
Cause this part I, so this whole section,
I didn't even read, I was like scanning
and like one of the comments, so
could just fear it was going on.
But even I was like, no,
Johnny: we need to start another
podcast called "Frankie Skims".
Dennis: Like when the kids explain like,
uh, a movie, but it's her explaining a
book based upon just skimming it for like,
Johnny: we actually read it,
but it's her just skimming it.
Yeah.
When we sit down and we do the
introduction and she's just skimming it
real quick, like, okay, here's
what I think the book's about.
I like that idea.
That's season five.
When we do season five, that'll,
Frankie: cause this one was a long one.
I even started reading it early
and I was like, I just can't,
Johnny: I just, I just,
Frankie: characters are ridiculous.
Johnny: Um, yeah.
I guess to play devil's advocate and
defenses like, are kevin and Alan Moore
are their...
Is their interpretations based on
how the Victorian era saw foreigners?
Oh, for sure.
Well, you know, are they, or was
there intent to just reproduce it?
Because that's how...
Dennis: So like you could
say that's the source.
Well, the source materials heavily racist,
but if you're doing a steam punk version,
you have the chance to like
Johnny: As the creators, you can change...
Dennis: And make it like a different
perspective, or at least, I don't know,
maybe have it where they look like racist
stereotypes when English characters are
interacting with them,
Johnny: like in the Hunt for Red October
when it transitions from Russian and
Dennis: then you know, and then
they look normal when they're not.
I just, I just, I felt with the
Johnny: book is 25 years old almost so.
Dennis: Well, you know,
that's a good point.
I mean,
Frankie: I say we weren't
woken the nineties
Dennis: but still, I mean,
just the level of racism.
I mean, I remember,
Johnny: I agree, it's, there's a lot of
things that happen in this book that are
cringe-worthy, right?
Their task to go and get this device
or this material from Fu Manchu.
So the team splits into two groups,
Mina with Griffin, and then Dr.
Jekyll Quatermaine.
Mina and Griffin follow.
They go to a tea shop then can't be told
him to go and check out while they're
there.
The tea shop purveyor basically is like,
gives them a little basically coded
message, which mean a determines,
Oh, it's under this bridge.
We should are, our lead
will take us to this bridge.
Quatermaine and, uh,
Jekyll go this opion dam.
Where this is where at that Quatermaine
was going to like relapse, which he
doesn't,
Dennis: which is surprising.
I mean this is really soon.
So you would think he would
like at least have some sort of.
Urge to try it or carry some, yeah.
Frankie: all drugs.
So like if you're, if you're addicted to
Oxycontin or whatever it is right now,
Johnny: that's on it will just any,
Dennis: let's open your purse
to see what you're doing.
Frankie: Like if you're addicted to
marijuana, is heroin gonna like, Oh, now
I'm gonna try heroin.
Johnny: Said no marijuana.
It's two separate things though.
If you're a heroin addict though, and
there's heroin on the table, or you'd be
like, I'm going to take the heroin.
Frankie: Oh, is there
heroin in the table on this
Johnny: table?
They're in a heroine,
they're in an opium den,
Dennis: so that's the thing.
He was like, and that's what he
was addicted, which is terrible.
Although he went into that
pharmacy for a different drug.
One could say that it's not necessarily
you're going to do, you have a gateway
drug.
You can do other ones, but
sometimes you're just an addict.
Johnny: No laudanum is heroin.
Yeah, that's
Frankie: what I was missing.
Yeah.
I was
Johnny: like, wait.
Yeah.
Laudanum, opium, heroin
are all the same thing.
Frankie: I do a lot of heroin.
Let me tell you, and
that makes more sense.
So carry on.
Johnny: I'm going to
tell you guys mics off
Dennis: just because we're not hip, like
you would know all the different drugs.
Frankie: I didn't read this section.
I got the gist of it.
They got the guy that
they needed for the team,
Johnny: so, so while they're there,
Quatermaine accidentally sees a ritual
from the Devil Doctor where he's
branding this guy with acid.
And while they're attempting to leave,
Hyde almost turns into Jekyll, but he's
really fighting it.
I out of all the characters, that's who,
well, Mina too, she's, she's has some
horrible things happen to her.
I felt really bad for Hyde because he
just, he's in his human form he's like a
decent human being.
He's very thoughtful and consider it.
Dennis: Let's just go on
Bruce banner and Hulk.
I mean, that's
Johnny: the, which is full on Dr.
Jekyll and Mr.
Hyde.
Dennis: Exactly.
Johnny: So they get back to the ship
report, what their findings are, and the
team makes a decision, which is led by
Mina, that they need to go back to this,
to this base, and underneath the bridge
there's a tunnel that was abandoned for
construction and typical the era, none of
the men believer, they're like, no, this
isn't what we should be doing.
And then.
This is the part I was like, I found
it funny and at the same time I found
frustrating is Nemo starts like,
no, it wouldn't be under there.
And he starts this reasoning process.
He goes, so the base would be in the
secret tunnel and then, and like he almost
gets the credit for over her.
I dunno.
I was just saying, Man-xplain.
Yeah, she's, that's her power.
She's the smart one.
So Alan, Amina pose as this homeless
couple because there's a homeless shelter
attached at the front end
of the, of this secret base.
They sneak in and Griffin's with
them within completely invisible.
He takes all of his clothes off and then
Jekyll's watching the street, and then
Griffin, the Invisible Man almost gets
caught rushing cause he like barrels
through between two.
Did you watch, did you read that part.
Yes.
While they're in there, they find the
secret tunnel, which is barricaded behind
like all this growth and
garbage and stuff like that.
I, you know, this part, I was
like, Oh this is interesting.
Dennis: I actually liked
the secret base and
Johnny: yeah, everything about it.
It's not the stereotypical racism.
Frankie: So, cause I did read this part.
I was thinking about the Invisible Man.
It's gotta be cold out
and he's just as naked.
He's completely naked.
Johnny: That's referenced a couple of
times where a knock somebody out or he,
he'll, he'll show one,
like he kills a cop.
Right.
Just take his clothes.
Frankie: I did see that.
Yeah, but like, but can he
wants to, he's just make it
Dennis: like, yeah,
Frankie: I can see you.
Like, I couldn't do that.
Johnny: You gotta be cold.
Yeah.
Frankie: That's all I thought
about during this scene.
Johnny: They sneak into the space,
find the device, the Cavorite.
At the same time, Griffin and Jekyll,
well, they get discovered a quarter means
about to be killed and the invisible
man just walks up and slices kills
this guy, almost decapites him.
Yeah.
And then Jekyll shows up and
winds up turning into hide and.
Killing horrifically killing,
Dennis: just ripping them apart,
Johnny: smashing,
chewing, biting, ripping.
They get cornered into this room where
it has a glass ceiling below the river.
So Mina using her witts, it's
like Hyde, grab all of us.
Quatermaine shoot the ceiling with
your elephant rifle, which is Linda.
Yeah, and I'll open this
device and we'll float up.
Which they do.
They get away, which I'm
Dennis: watching you
with the device, dude.
I was like, is it a bomb?
Is it?
Johnny: No, that's it floats.
Yeah.
They knew it going in a Campion tells
them the Cavorite is the anti-gravity
Dennis: material.
Johnny: Yeah.
They meet the scientist
who's actually from the book.
The actual real book.
Um,
Frankie: is this the scene?
Maybe I'm thinking of a different scene.
I don't want to do a spoiler.
Johnny: No spoil.
We've already spoiled.
Is this, this
Frankie: scene that Hyde like he's like
holding on and they want him to like let
go.
Oh, okay.
Then I didn't read the scene.
Dennis: There is a scene where
he's ripping a man apart over there
Frankie: and then I lied.
I did not read this at all.
I read the sounds, it sounds
like a duplicate scene.
I didn't need to
Dennis: read it.
Johnny: Uh,
Dennis: anyway, they blast off
Johnny: and this is where they blast off.
They
Dennis: escape.
She caps it off, they fall to the ground,
Johnny: they're mega Nautilus,
they wind up meeting Campion.
And then we find out that his boss is
actually Moriarty not, not Mycroft Holmes.
And we get a scene set several years
before where Moriarty is much younger in
the scene and, and Sherlock
Dennis: Holmes was the infamous last book
of Charlotte Holmes where they're facing
off at the waterfall
Johnny: and he dies.
But then it was retconned
by, by, what's this?
Who wrote that book?
I should
Dennis: know Sir
Johnny: Arthur Conan
Dennis: Doyle.
Right.
But yeah, I don't know how
Moriarty survived at all.
Johnny: Yeah.
So, yeah, they're fighting, um.
Moriarty actually falls off the cliff, and
Campion is one of his henchmen that like
pulls him off right out of this waterfall
Dennis: means that James Bond's
grandfather was a trader.
Johnny: Well, you should read the
one that James Bond appears then.
He is not a good guy.
He's the bad guy of the story.
Oh really?
Yeah.
Yeah.
Like he is a, you know how they'll make
jokes about James Bond, about like, how,
or, or I shouldn't say jokes.
The, you know, the criticism of
James Bond is he's misogynist.
It puts women in harms way, puts
innocent people in harms way.
All that shit comes to the forefront in
the story, and it takes place in the 50s
yeah.
We cut back to the current story we
learned from Moriarty that the British
government, quote, unquote, created him
to monitor the underworld of crimes.
So it seems like Moriarty may
not even be his actual real name.
Right.
In addition to controlling the criminal
world, he also controls British
intelligence, and this is where he.
You know, tells the reader basically that
Fu Manchu controls the other side of the,
the criminal world.
Nemo secretly tells Griffin to sneak out
while while we're meeting all these, while
we're getting
Dennis: caught up.
They followed a Bond.
Johnny: Yeah.
Campion to see what's really going on.
Dennis: And then that's how they find out.
Cause he was in the room
naked with Moriarty.
Johnny: Yeah.
During all this, they figured out what
Moriarty's real plan is and decide to go
steal the device back then, and in doing
so, they discovered this giant, he has his
own giant Airship that's
painted to look like a drag.
It was really cool drawing.
I like,
Dennis: no, no, actually I liked that.
It was pretty cool
Johnny: when this ship takes off.
This is one of the things I
liked that was kind of funny.
As the ship launches, we see like the
public's astonishment, they're looking up
at this thing and there's a guy that
says he has a sign that says "blind".
And he's actually looking,
yeah.
Moriarty ships starts bombing
the hell out of London.
Killing, just killing everywhere.
Dennis: Right.
So how is this helping the British
government by getting rid of the Fu
Manchu, like
Johnny: It's not helping the British
government, it's helping Moriarty, right?
He's canceling.
Dennis: He's out of control.
Stu, he got so big and he's so corrupt
that he's like, I'm above the British
Johnny: empire sanctions.
You know?
He's, yeah.
He could do, he could do this.
This is when we see the Artful
Dodger and all the, all of his kids.
Nemo has a hot air balloon,
which they launch to go, yeah,
Dennis: a tiny balloon.
Like a cool one.
Johnny: Yeah.
It's like a hot air balloon for the era.
So they all climb on board
and land on the ship, and then
Frankie: this is a
Wizard of Oz Easter egg.
Dennis: Oh yes.
Johnny: Oh, that's what that was.
Yeah.
Frankie: Know.
I'm just, I'm just spinning.
Dennis: I bet it is actually.
Frankie: Yeah, that sounds smart.
That
Johnny: book would have
been from that era too.
I liked that.
It was a good call when
you actually read the book.
Frankie: Right, right, and I care.
Johnny: Boom and choose got
all of his people on gliders.
They're launching rockets.
I thought that was pretty
innovative and neat.
Yeah.
Dennis: So a GI Joe versus Cobra
Johnny: movie.
Dennis: Yeah.
Johnny: They land on the ship because
of all this craziness going on.
They, they basically sneak past and
they're about to basically get involved in
this battle and Hyde doesn't want to turn,
or Jekylldoesn't want to turn it into Hyde
and Mina has to keep slapping
him and you start to see...
Dennis: Something's
going to break her wrist.
Johnny: Well, this pays off later.
It's like, I think she's, she has treated
him, either Hyde or Jekyll, as sort of
like an equal and equal.
Yeah.
Not a monster.
And I think that has endeared him to,
Dennis: cause someone said
Frankie: like, I'll help.
And she's like, no, I've got it.
And she's like, I told you let go of me.
Johnny: Yeah, he does.
And then later when they're
escaping, that's when.
The rest of them make it back to the
balloon and Griffin, almost Griffin's,
Griffin's about to leave
without any of them.
You
Dennis: haven't seen him forever.
Like he's hasn't been
involved with a battle.
Johnny: Everyone gets in, but Hyde is
running up and they're like, let's leave
them.
And she's like, no.
She's like, no, we're all going.
And so he jumps on and they wind up
crashing, but still she's like, no, we're
a team.
And I think that's what really finally it,
their relationship really pays off in the
second book.
Frankie: Did they get married?
Do they have kids?
Dennis: Very, I mean, it's very much
like how black widow treats the whole
Johnny: yeah.
Dennis: And MCU movies and
Johnny: how like, I wonder if
that was influenced by this story?
Ah, so getting back to the battle of Nima
and hide, they get involved in this fight.
Mina and Allen find Moriarty
at the top of the ship.
Alan kills Moriarty's
troops with like a, what?
A Nemos crazy machine.
Arrow guns.
Yeah.
It's like harp,
Dennis: mini harpoon machine gun.
Johnny: Yeah.
Alan gets shot in the shoulder.
Right, right.
And just as he's about
to kill him, I thought...
Mina's sneaking up with this giant wrench
and I thought she was going to knock him
out, but a stage, she smashes the device
and it starts to shoot out through the,
Dennis: which is interesting
because, okay, so your....
You know, friend is about to get shot.
I would assume assault the guy...
Johnny: You would assume that.
But knowing how Mina is so smart knows
that
Dennis: Moriarty
Johnny: Moriarty is more
concerned about that then.
Dennis: Right.
And you know, it may delay things.
Someone may accidentally
get shot in the process.
So yeah, that's true.
Johnny: She knew what
she would care about.
Yes.
So go shooting off into the air.
jumps on it.
And realizes, Oh no, I made a mistake.
And as it just continues to ascend.
Dennis: I wonder how far he would fly up?
Johnny: Probably until
Dennis: gravity, but then once it breaks
the atmosphere, does it keep going in this
space?
Johnny: It might just stay no
matter what, he'll die up there.
It's so cold and so lacking in oxygen.
Um, although they say he may
not have died, but you know,
Dennis: Moriarty kind of has
Johnny: their, like, he's known,
he's been known to die before.
So that's when we get
to the balloon scene.
It crashes into the water because
of Hydes weight, pulling them down,
Frankie: but they say, just jump, jump.
You're going to kill us all.
And the guys are so mean.
Johnny: Right.
I think that's just the Invisible Man.
Cause cause his word bubbles don't have
the little tail that shows you who's
saying it.
It's just
Frankie: floating.
Johnny: Yeah.
Yeah.
He's just riding
Dennis: by it.
Hey,
Johnny: Hey, you should jump up.
Dennis: Oh Hey you should
Johnny: I say you should jump off.
Dennis: Yeah.
You know what?
I would not want to be stuck in a hot air
balloon with an invisible man cause he is
naked.
So it's junk.
He's invisible junk, rubbing up.
It's a tight spot.
Those things don't have a lot of room.
Johnny: He made these turn into the side,
so it's just his butt's touching you.
Dennis: But that means when
he was holding on the onto...
onto Hyde.
He was all, his junk was all
Frankie: this scene.
The red scarf was going to
save the day and I didn't
Dennis: know her head would fall.
Yeah,
Johnny: no, but the book ends with Mycroft
becoming the head of actually Mycroft
Holmes is now promoted to the head of MI5.
He keeps camping around because he knows
he's a devious piece of shit and he's
like, I'd rather keep him close, and I
know I've got him, then out there being
loose in the wild, the group is.
Requested by homes to stay together and
they'll get a hefty retainer and no one's
like, no, we shouldn't do this.
And Mina is the one that's
actually like, yeah, we should.
This is a great opportunity for us, and
that's where the book ends with basically
the start of the second book,
which is the Attack from Mars.
Dennis: Right?
Frankie: Oh, of course
it's an Attack from Mars,
Dennis: or, HG Well, it wasn't fake.
Johnny: Yeah.
Frankie: So Mina scarf.
Yes.
It's because she was bitten by Dracula.
Yeah.
And she has so many teeth marks on
her neck, and I was like, really?
That's it?
All right.
Dennis: Makeup would clear that out.
Johnny: No, but if you see them in the
second, her injuries, the scars from it
pop up later.
There's no hiding it.
The scarf is the only way to hide it.
Gotcha.
Yeah.
It's pretty vicious.
The her, how her neck
looks, but so Frankie.
You didn't like the book?
Frankie: No, I actually did.
Yeah, I thought so.
I thought it was actually pretty good.
The artwork I thought was really good, and
the coloring, the stay in the lines and
everything, and it depicts like dark,
you know, and stuff actually did like the
book.
I just like, okay, and this
is where I started skimming.
I don't, I never start with the intention
of skimming, but with this book, I was
like, okay, I get it.
I get the gist.
And because there was three sexual assault
scenes back to back to back, I was like,
I'm not.
Like, I'm not trying to read all that,
even though there's only technically one.
So I was like, I get the gist.
I get it.
Okay.
They have to face these obstacles to get
the person that they need to join the
team.
What surprised me was like everyone in
the team is a horrible, horrible person.
They're killers.
They're rapers and like, Oh, like, but
then like they're heroes at the end, I'm
like, mm,
Johnny: well, they're flawed people.
You know,
Frankie: They're killers.
They're murderers.
They're not flawed.
Johnny: Three of them are flawed.
Two of them are just straight up killers.
Okay,
Dennis: that's fair.
It's very actually very
similar to a suicide squad.
That's the whole idea.
Johnny: Well, and you could say Alan
Quatermaine is actually, I mean, maybe
it's just, uh, Mina is the only one
that's a decent human being because Alan
Quartermaine in the S in the Solomon books
is very much a proponent of Imperialism
and Colonialism, and, but I guess as the
story's progressed towards the end of the
character's life, he became much more
sympathetic to the indigenous people
and like not killing for killing sake.
Yeah.
Big game sport.
Frankie: So I mean, I'm glad that I read
this cause I think it was one of the
opposites, like, Oh, I've always
wanted, you always hear about it.
And I knew it was like a movie and I was
like, I'm kind of curious what, what is
League of Extraordinary Gentlemen.
So now I know.
I think too, had I read it
the way it was intended.
First written intentionally as a
series, like book one, book two and not
altogether.
I could have enjoyed it more, but just
like in one lump sum, it's, it's a lot.
I'm just like, okay.
I get it.
Johnny: Like I think Book Two is the
better of the tissue, cause I never read
them in a really long time.
But Book Two is really
good for my memories.
However, the la-, I read this book for the
first time, probably around the time the
movie came out maybe a
couple of years later.
And, and one thing I think we've all come
to a consensus about is like unnecessary
extreme violence or like sexual assault
and all three of the sexual, not that you
should put it a sexual
assault into a story.
I don't know what I'm trying to say.
Or like when's a good time to put
something like that in a story, but all
three of these incidences were to make
Alan Quartermaine get up, basically out of
his, his heroin stupor.
The other one is just to show how
evil Invisible, Invisible Man is.
It's like, you know, you could have shown
him as, as a bad guy and another way, you
know, maybe he's breaking in and stealing
shit or fucking with people, I dunno.
And then as the story moves along, you get
to see him in increasing incidences of,
Oh, this is really an evil person.
You know?
Like when he kills the cop, this cop was
just out on patrol and he kills him just
to take his clothes.
It's like.
That right there is enough to
show me he's an evil person.
Right.
You know, or is he stealing
kids and selling them?
I don't know.
That's not any better, but
you know, it's just I, yeah.
I, as I'm getting older and I'm rereading
some of these books I've read from my
youth, like the Justin Jordan
series of the Luther Strode, series.
Right.
But Justin Jordan, and this is just like,
what's the, it's just like violence for
violence sake.
Dennis: Right.
And you know.
I don't want to go down too much of a path
down this, but it has me questioned like
you talked about like why do they
have to show sexual violence?
No, I just feel it's just too much for me.
I just don't want to read that.
Johnny: Well, it's the whole point of like
the woman in the fridge, right thing where
she could have just been in jeopardy like,
like the guys had her pressed up against
the wall asking for money and
they were going to stab her.
Yeah.
Otherwise, and then he gets up and, right.
But even then, that's not any better.
He could have, you know,
she, he could've, I dunno,
Dennis: I dunno.
Frankie: For me, I think
it's just the lazy way to go.
Right.
It's very easy to ride it,
and it's just kind of...
Dennis: It's just weirdly, weirdly lurid.
Johnny: Anyways.
What'd you think?
Dennis: I actually, I, I'm mixed.
I liked the story.
I liked that it basically was a Justice
League of Victorian heroes, but yeah, I
just felt like it could have addressed
things up, even from the late Nineties and
late Nineties is not like some weird.
Other time period.
I mean, you know, we've talked about
social issues for a long time, so
Johnny: 1999 takes a long time for
associate issues to like, yeah, but I mean
for people to move forward,
Dennis: the real world was
addressing it way back in '93, '92
Frankie: there's a difference though
between like one show addressing it cause
like homosexuality now versus
then is completely different.
True.
Dennis: Yeah.
I mean, just having a person
kiss on TV was like a huge
Johnny: Ellen Degeneres
almost lost her career.
She basically did several years,
Frankie: I think, even though like
in the 90s we were more aware of it.
I don't think that we were as.
Advanced now, and I think 20 years
from now I'd be like, God, what were we
thinking 20 years ago?
Yeah,
Dennis: but I had just hoped that they
would bring some more modern perspective,
but then again, you know, you're
working with the source of material.
Johnny: I don't know what is the
modern perspective, and it was written.
Dennis: I like that kind
of steam punk era stuff.
I totally dug it.
So I'm very interested in read the second
book, and it's fun to play around with
literary heroes and then put them in like
this big sandbox and see how they interact
with each other.
So yeah.
So I'm, I definitely
think it's interesting.
Johnny: Mixed feelings
Dennis: about that.
And I definitely want to read the rest.
I'll, I'll say that.
Frankie: God, not me.
I'm done.
I don't need to know anymore.
Johnny: Alright.
Frankie: What'd you think Johnny?
Johnny: The same.
I have mixed feelings about the book.
I remember really liking
it when I was younger.
Of course, my mindset was different back
then and things that bothered me now
didn't bother me back then.
So, but yeah, I would say read it with
the caveat of there is some really graphic
shit that happens in this book
that is stomach churning so...
Well, where can people
follow you, Frankie?
Frankie: On Instagram, at WordsNWaffles.
Johnny: At Dennis, where can they follow?
Our
Dennis: podcast can be followed on
Twitter and Instagram at GNExplorersClub.
Johnny: Cool.
Thanks for listening.
Thanks.
Frankie, you better say goodbye.
Frankie: Oh, bye.
Dennis: Proof of life.
Frankie: Greetings!
Prepare for doom!
