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Hello everyone and welcome to Avantika
Designeering Series or ADS as we
like to call it every week on wednesdays
we feature Design and Technology leaders
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[Music]
What is the essence of design look around you
and observe the everyday products that
you use you will see that everything is
impeccable well a good design is not
just an accident for a product to
achieve extensive recognition and
acceptance as a convenient product
designers go through a series of
processes ranging from technological
aspects to the usability and of course
the aesthetics as well and a good design
is something that goes beyond once
success story today on world industrial
design day we get into conversation with
David kusuma who leads as vice president
of research at Tupperware and
president elect at the world design
organization he is the classic example
how industrial designers weave our daily
lives and how their jobs go beyond
designing beautiful things and making
systems effective for a more practical
and efficient world
david has led the R&D team for
tupperware where he led his team to
develop innovative products and think
out of the containers not only did he
bring a wave of disruption to tap away but his
creative contribution to the
organization introduced a way of
lifestyle that has impacted millions
around the globe with his resilience to
help the community grow he mentors the
young society of industrial designers
and young professionals at the World
Design
Organization to uplift the world that is
socially and environmentally stable
without wasting any time let's dive into
the first part of the conversation with
him on our special episode for world
industrial design day hello David and
welcome to Avantika Designeering
Series podcast we are glad that you are
here celebrating along with us a special
occasion the World Industrial Design Day
and who better than the leadership from
World Design Organization and someone
who spent his entire career in
Industrial Design we welcome you to show
and we are excited to do this
conversation with you yeah thankyou
very much Rohit I'm very pleased to be
here I want to just welcome everyone on
behalf of the World Design Organization
to wish you all a very happy WIDD or
World Industrial Design Day also I want
to just make a quick mention to thanks
Sahil Jain he is a member of the WDO
Young Designer Circle who had originally
invited me to be on this show and also
thank you to the students at Avantika
and all the fans of your show
who have reached out and voiced their
interest in this segment so I'm really
really pleased to be here thankyou so
much for that appreciation David so to
set the tone and start our discussion on
the world industrial design day let's
start with the importance of the field
in the pandemics struck world how do you
think is designed combating this yes the
pandemic is a serious time that we're
all experiencing
right now these are definitely
unprecedented times for the world but as
you know a time of crisis is also a time
of opportunity especially for the design
profession to show how we can have some
impact on the world and I do believe
that design has a strong role to play to
give you a little bit of background in
March of this year WDO launched an
initiative which was in partnership with
both IBM as well as Design for America
to create a global mobilization effort
and this was specifically for Covid19
to look at how design could be used to
resolve some of the issues that were
coming out of the pandemic we invited
designers from around the world and it
was pretty amazing
in less than 24 hour turnaround we had
more than 180 challenge statements that
we ended up clustering and then ended up
with seven key challenges based on
potential urgency as well as impact
which the teams ended up working on so
the seven problem statements were
communication because everyone was
finding themselves newly affected you
know what is this pandemic all mean best
practices which had to do with hospital
and clinics in terms of how we treat
people in terms of how we test for the
virus personal protective equipment you
know what to wear and what makes a lot
of sense safe behaviors how do you do
social distancing what's the right
distance what's the right spacing of
people also looking at vulnerable
populations people like the elderly who
are most susceptible to the pandemic we
also looked at how to reinvent learning
you know a lot of schools have to move
very quickly to find out how to teach
virtually some schools of course some
universities
are already quite good at it but others
had to just go as fast as they could to
catch up and then find it finally job
losses and things like mental and
financial health as well so you know
this was an exercise that we started we
had an open call and out of more than
5500 people who were registered we ended
up having to select only 300 because it
was impossible to get everyone who
wanted to join involved so that the
program could still be well organized
and we could make forward progress we
had organized the teams into three
regions of the world so they were
designed by timezone we had the Americas
we had Europe and Africa and then Asia
Pacific and Australia and basically
working 24 hours a day to focus on each
of the seven challenges the seven
challenges were actually duplicated in
all three areas because interestingly
enough each area had different needs
different concerns different background
different cultures and we ended up with
a real diverse set of solutions one of
the things that we found was that design
is especially transformative especially
in our ability to collaborate with other
disciplines so that the solutions that
we arrived at were not only creative but
we also had the skill sets from the
medical industry from people with social
sciences backgrounds and other key
disciplines as well so that when we move
forward with concepts you know they were
not just innovative but they were also
practical and they were meaningful and
and something that could be actually
created in either physical form or
digital form and which could be given to
the public and launched to make a real
impact you know so so this is really
important we ended up with you know some
solutions related to innovative
PPE concepts we had an awareness and
communications campaign that was
developed from this effort and even a
navigation app to show people how to
avoid crowds but Rohit I want to just
emphasize that right now perhaps the
more relevant question should be how
will we design to focus on post Covid
because as you know everything is trying
to start to open up again governments
are trying to do what they can to open
up their economies we know that there's
no cure so we also know that the virus
will be with us possibly for a long time
to come so the question is how can we
design to live with Covid you know and
this is really important because you
know as I mentioned everyone and it
really doesn't matter where you come
from what your background is everyone in
the world has been impacted by this
whole pandemic you know and it's been a
difficult time for most people as
designers we have to remember that even
though a lot has changed over the past
several months people's basic needs and
their wants really have not changed so
long as we stay true to the values that
are the most important to people then
we'll continue to provide solutions
which will help them to achieve their
longer-term objectives we know that
people want to be healthy they want
longer life and also a higher quality of
life they want more time on their hands
so they can spend it doing things that
they love people have been hurt
economically so they want better value
for the money they still want to spend
things on what makes them happy and they
want to enjoy opportunities with their
families you know their friends their
loved ones I think none of that has
changed what I believe that Covid19 has
really helped most of us to discover is
what's important to us in life you know
so I think design really has a great
opportunity as well in the post kovat
environment in terms of how do we make
people have a higher quality of life
even though the pandemic will still be
with us so that's some really
great kind of activities that David W do
actually organized and I'm sure that
there will be really creative
interesting solutions that would come
out to combat the the existing so moving
from covid
to David your personal professional
journey so from GE to Tupperware to WDO
can you run us through your entire
journey
sure Rohit thanks for the question so to
begin I would say that my professional
journey actually started a number of
years before GE in fact when I graduated
with my degree in industrial design I
had attended Carnegie Mellon University
in Pittsburgh I immediately worked for a
company called Fisher Scientific which
is well known for making laboratory and
scientific equipment my first boss at
the time his name was Don Graham he
actually ended up becoming one of my
major mentors of my career when I first
started he asked me whether I was
planning to go and get some additional
schooling you know of course for me I
scratched my head I asked what he meant
because I had just graduated you know
but his comment was that yes you're done
with your schooling but your education
actually starts right now so I thought
that was really an interesting
perspective you know that's something
that has really stayed with me for many
years you mentioned that the company has
or had an education benefit which paid
100% for additional schooling that I
would be interested to do provided that
I achieved you know certain grades like
an A or B in my coursework he emphasized
that not every company offers such an
amazing benefit and if I didn't utilize
it you know no one would pay me for the
money that the company didn't spend on
on behalf you know plus the further
benefit is that any training or any
additional degree I was able to earn I
would take with me if I ever left the
company you know I thought that was
really remarkable so finally I decided
to go back to school you know with his
blessing and with his encouragement and
I actually ended up going to school
continuously for many years and when I
say many years it could be like a span
of 20 years or so it's interesting once
you're kind of in the groove you know
when you're used to going to class even
though you're working during the day you
get home you have to do your schoolwork
and then when you reach the end of the
semester and you're not going to school
you know suddenly in the evenings you
find you have all this time you're not
used to so you find the next class and
you find your next curriculum to fill
that gap I started to go back to school
for a second bachelor's in mechanical
engineering so it's very interesting
that when someone is coming from the
engineering side and wants to study
industrial design they are offered the
ability normally to go for a master's
degree straight on but for myself that
wasn't an option you know they they were
telling me that I didn't have enough
technical credits you know so the best
that I could do was to go for a second
bachelor's in mechanical engineering so
I did and in my next job after Fisher
which was Bayer polymers many of you
might know Bayer as the aspirin company
but they also have a division focused on
plastics and polymers they are
positioned themselves as a technology
company and they boasted that 80% of
their employees had technical degrees
you know I was still in school and of
course at that time I was not one of the
80% so I got even more motivated to
complete my degree after I completed my
degree I really enjoyed it so I decided
to continue on and get my master's in
engineering you know it's interesting
because
people say that you're only as good as
your terminal degree when I was first
with my degree only an industrial design
I was told in projects that I probably
should not be looking at the technical
side but as soon as I got my degree they
were telling me that I probably wasn't
creative enough because I was too
technical you know it's interesting how
people's view points change as you
progress in your studies eventually when
I left Bayer and I joined GE General
Electric I joined as global manager of
design and vehicle engineering GE also
has a plastics group so that's so what I
worked for GE automotive plastics and
they informed me when I first joined
that all GE managers are supposed to
have MBAs of course at that time I
didn't have one either so they sent me
back to school again I got my second
master's in international business and
this was at Tilburg University in
Holland because most of my projects at
GE
were channeled through Bergen op zoom
which is a city in Holland which is GE's european headquarters for plastics
everything is basically evolutionary
when I graduated with my MBA one of my
professors suggested that I go for a PhD
in business but to me I said you know
what if I'm going to back to school for
PhD studies it would be something
related in technology and especially in
materials because really that's been my
background I've been working in plastics
practically my whole career so this
professor by coincidence he knew and he
introduced me to a department head at
Cranfield University in England which by
the by the way was the school that he
had graduated from that's where he got
his PhD and this professor was looking
for a PhD student
in the background in polymers so what
happened next was I over I met her I
found that we had a lot of the same
values a lot of the same interests in
the subject matter and so I ended up
enrolling and six years later completed
my PhD from that school so that's the
long story of my educational background
from there I joined Tupperware where I
currently hold the position of vice
president global R&D where we focus on
many different technologies for new
products it goes well beyond plastics
including materials which are very
sustainable and also we broaden our
scope of opportunity looking at other
technologies like the Internet of Things
for example and we also focus on
products that are related not only to
food storage but also to cooking and
also food conservation it's an
exciting journey but tell me 
something David that from Tupperware to
WDO what does mean that one driving
force for you and how did you manage to
align the goals of both these
organizations yes sure
Tupperware to WDO I would say that
there's really not much of a conflict
between both organizations because both
really have very similar values those of
you who know about WDO or the world
design organization know that it's
focused on making the world a better
place and it's guided by United Nations
sustainable development goals or which
we referred to as UN SDGs
I'm not going to get into all the
details of the SDGs
in this interview but I do want to point
out a couple of them especially where
there is some strong overlap so to begin
if we take SDG number 12 for example
which stands for Responsible consumption
and production this means we should
encourage the efficient use of resources
we should look at sustainable
alternatives and we should apply
responsible behaviors I'm
actually very happy that I've been able
to work on very interesting projects at
Tupperware and one of the areas that we
focus on is to move people away from
single-use packaging and into hard
durable products products that can be
used over and over again you know in
fact our products are designed for a
lifetime of use and we give always a
lifetime warranty with our product I
often get the question well what is a
lifetime actually mean you know and it
means different things to different
people but the way that we define it is
that a consumer will get at least 50
years of continuous use so what that
means is that if something is designed
to be used everyday or even let's say
several times a day if you have several
meals they can use utilize this product
with that frequency over the course of
50 years and the product should function
the same way as it did on the day that
they purchased it you know so that's
pretty significant you know and the
warranty means that we would replace the
product at no additional cost if it
didn't meet that criteria we're also
focused on sdg 9 which is innovation
industry and infrastructure and this is
defined as strengthening the connection
between design technology and R&d and we
also combine that with sdg 3 which is
good health and well-being because we
apply food science and we apply
materials technology to make our
products more innovative so that food
can last longer it can stay fresher
longer in storage and promote healthy
eating also sdg 6 which is clean water
and sanitation everyone knows Tupperware for being a
company which sells food storage
containers but not many people know that
water filtration is actually one of our
biggest products in the world in terms
of sales and revenue you know so we also
look at water we use biopolymers other
sustainable materials even some with
natural antibacterial effects to promote
better hygiene and these are only some
of the common over
and I would say that there are many more
that probably we don't have time for but
at Tupperware we talk about guiding
people through space and through time
you know we know how to organize people
so that they can have more space in
their homes and in their kitchens and
time time is one of the most precious
and valuable commodities that people
have it's the only thing you never get
back so if we can save the consumer time
by making their everyday tasks more
simple and more convenient and of course
more time savings we can really give the
consumer a lot of daily value
so both Tupperware and WDO have a very
strong focus on sustainability WDO is
focused on creating a better world
through design and Tupperware is also
interested in creating a better world to
be environmentally responsible and to
provide a better quality of life for
consumers well these are really exciting
insights I didn't know the Tupperware products
that I have is is got such a large shelf
life well unfortunately most of the
time with my Tupperware products are that we misplace them either at offices or somewhere but
that's really exciting in terms
of you know how a company looks at it I
wasn't even aware about the amount of
work that you are doing on the water
conservation side of it so while you're
doing all of these interesting things
what one question that comes to my mind
David is how has the world of industrial
design evolved since you first entered
this field yeah the world of ID
industrial design has in my opinion
changed pretty significantly since I
graduated and since I came into the
profession I would say that the
profession has a much higher level of
sophistication today then back then when
I first graduated we were focused
primarily on product design you know so
product development trying to make the
best product we could for the
manufacturability and for the cost and
for the user function but if we look
around today there are specializations
of design that didn't really exist back
then if we take a couple of them as
examples user interface for example and
user experience UX and UI you know these
are these are one of the most prevalent
focus areas today for designers you know
and if you look at universal design for
example and human factors they were just
really emerging at the time I was coming
out of school we were industrial
designers which were focused primarily
on products in fact I would tell you
that a lot of companies didn't even know
what an industrial designer was I had
mentioned earlier that my first job out
of the university was with a company
called Fisher Scientific and I will tell
you that my business card actually read
Industrial Engineer because that's the
closest that came to industrial designer
they just didn't have that specific
categorization of the profession but
interestingly again if you look today
industry now has found a strong value in
design because companies have found out
that good design can sell you know it
can sell whatever your product is or
your service or whatever so in many
places design has become somewhat of a
buzzword in terms of design strategy if
you're going to be making product you
know you have to have a strategy because
you know it you pay it has to cover all
of the points that from a human centered
point of view needs to be addressed and
you know so design strategy has come
into play in many corporate initiatives
relating to both brand as well as the
product and most of you who have gone
through business school know that
leaving business schools have all jumped
into the game as well
and they've taken the opportunity to
include design thinking into their
business curricula but beyond what we
design every day one of the reasons why
I like being involved with the world
design organization is that it focuses
typically on social improvements
improvements again that are guided by
the UN SDGs looking to solve the
greatest issues for the greatest number
of people so design can really focus on
providing benefit in much larger areas
you know and with greater impact than we
ever have had the opportunity to do
before design has also adopted a strong
collaborative and multidisciplinary
culture design research is much more
widely used to expand you know our
capabilities and our understanding and
our knowledge of what is important to
consumers the discipline is highly
engaged also in issues surrounding
things like the circular economy with
solutions based on principles of
designing out waste designing out
pollution keeping products and materials
and continuous use and regenerating
natural systems so design is about
designing much more than just objects
today the profession has an important
calling in my opinion for the 21st
century and also into the future so
that's an interesting insight that 
you gave in terms of how industrial
designers evolved in fact one of my
understanding David of the field is that
industrial design as a term arose after
the Second World War though it's been a
part of the economy since the Industrial
Revolution but what I have known is the
nineteen hundreds the term efficiency
and standardization came up and towards
the 1980s we moved to its minimalism in
aesthetics what are the terms then
according to you define the industrial
design of this era yes if we also
remember the Bauhaus we must also
consider terms like mass production
simplicity truth of materials the
Bauhaus was looking at a model where
people of every background and every
demographic could enjoy products that
could improve their life regardless of
their socio-economic
Attis you mentioned minimalism and you
mentioned aesthetics and they're
definitely important but I don't
attribute those terms only with the
1980s as you had mentioned because
really there's still some of the design
values that are existing today when we
think about today and we think about
this era especially when we were coming
out of the pandemic I like the words
designed for Humanity so in WDO terms
this means to design for a better world
and design is getting involved in so
many areas where we have never been
engaged with before so this includes not
only social improvements but also in
establishing design policy which is
something extremely important for the
future we know that design can be a
powerful tool for many things for social
economic and cultural changes it can
also serve as a guide to grow both
economic as well as industrial success
and it has the ability to break down
long term social norms and cultural
barriers things that limit progress on
basic quality of life and there have
been a number of nations which have
established design policies or some that
are currently working on design policies
which is really a process by which
governments can translate their
political visions into action plans to
efficiently use and manage their natural
resources that are available and also
grow their economic aspirations but
personally I believe that design has a
higher calling we are charged to focus
on what provides the highest benefit so
that the impact of our contribution can
be felt globally in my opinion design
policy should really transcend the
simple business objectives
local economic progress and Industry
competitive which are normally found in
national policies innovation based
economic growth is definitely important
but we need to focus on global issues
which are most important to the greatest
number of people even regardless of
national origins so issues like for
example global income you know there's a
lot of income equality there's a lot of
poverty and there's a lot of
discrimination all of these items that
focus on basic human dignity rather than
national related interests I think we're
all in agreement that there is a lot of
suffering in the world today and there
are great opportunities for design to
really make a difference you know there
are issues like climate change issues
like infectious diseases the global
pandemic that we're currently
experiencing and we already see how
global issues can create economic status
stagnation in corners of the world it's
imperative that all together we agree
upon and we prioritize the many global
issues where design can make a
significant impact you know and it's
important also that we look at better
data and metrics because currently there
is a lack of statistical information
even on the design profession you know
and I think there's an urgent need to
begin collecting detailed statistical
data so that we have a clear picture on
the current design landscape and on
future trends you know we don't even
have good statistical information for
example on the number of students
enrolled and graduating from
universities around the world you know
what are the size and what are the
number of design firms you know what are
the number of design employees for
example by country and and and and
what's the projected growth so you know
we need to collect data on our
profession and we also need to develop
the means to monitor the effect of does
on social and economic improvements you
know there has been a lot of talk about
connecting KPIs for example key
performance indicators in two world
bodies like the UN so that we can track
things like gee GDP or Human Development
Index HDI you know so these are all
things to come but a design policy I
believe is really important for us to
get involved in so that we can really
plan for a future where design can have
a good influence and a good contribution
so that's an interesting view on how
industrial design has shape and I'm sure
that as you mentioned there are
organizations which are taking a view of
this in the api's focusing on
sustainability and and with that I am
intrigued to understand that with
sustainability being at the core of
industrial design where do you see the
field in the future yes on the topic of
sustainability I envision a strong
emphasis first of all on education part
is on teaching responsible production
and consumption but also the sharing of
best practices and case studies so that
we can raise designs understanding
increase our capability and also you
know the visibility of what design can
offer and in this day and age I must say
that we also have the responsibility to
combat misinformation when it comes to
what is or is not sustainable and what
are good practices I think there's a
world of opportunity to rethink and
redesign all the different things that
we are involved with and we need to
return to basics you know and a return
to our core responsibilities and I want
to explain a little bit what this means
designers who have been around for a few
decades will remember and recognize the
acronyms such as D F a and D F M you
know they stand for design
assembly and designed for manufacturing
you know there's even a combined term
DFD a designed for manufacturing and
assembly but there have been some terms
that have gotten a little bit lost you
know terms like DFD which stand for
design for disassembly you know and this
is understanding that in order to take a
product at the end of its lifecycle and
in order to recycle it we need to be
able to take that product apart and
separate the different materials so that
we can reprocess them into new products
you know one of the things that I like
to use as an example are toothbrushes
whenever I go into a pharmacy to pick up
a new toothbrush I'm really astonished
to see how many materials this little
utensil is made of you know sometimes up
to six or seven different materials the
next time you participate ache the time
to observe it as well
and you cannot take the components that
are molded together apart which means
the product cannot be recycled easily
you know if you look at the data you
know there are 3.5 billion
toothbrushes that are sold around the
world every year you know so we really
have to address these issues for issues
like this we really don't have much time
to waste in general though I would say
that the design profession as well as
most of the people in the world are more
tuned into sustainable objectives and
they ever have before you know and
repurposed and recycled products even
upcycle products have become popular you
know and there's a movement called
steampunk which uses a lot of leftover
junk and this continues to be cool as
well well that's really cool
I haven't observed some of these things
and I'm sure the next thing that I'm
gonna pick up a product look at it from
from this angle for sure so moving from
a sustainability the WDO has been a
prime organization and at the forefront
of responsible consumption and
production
what does the organization's are all
going to be in bringing about these
changes in mass markets yes I have a lot
to say on this one but I'll try to keep
it as brief as I can it's an important
time for the field of design you know
and I consider myself very privileged
and honored to have been recently
elected to lead the world design
organization beginning in the fall of
next year it'll be important of course
to continue to build upon our past
history and to guide our profession
towards engaging design to solve some of
the world's most complex problems the
responsible consumption and production
which you asked about is SDG 12 but I
guess I prefer to reshape your question
a little bit to include all SDGs
meaning how can the design profession
and how can w do make an impact to help
achieve the UN sustainable development
goals as a whole you know it's
interesting today we live in a world
it's characterized by unprecedented
population growth we have decreasing
natural resources and we have continued
rapid technological changes in this
context the world design organization I
believe is fully engaged and is ready to
play a leadership role on some of our
planet's biggest issues you know related
to economic issues social and
environmental changes and that's because
we have a large network created by our
diverse member organizations around the
world and we have long-standing pillars
of professional design associations we
have designed promotional organizations
and educational institutions but we also
have a very strong cities agenda we've
just recently added city memberships to
our pillars and we have a program that's
now become very well recognized the
World Design Capital program
that offers a platform for sharing ideas
and also you know stories storytelling
from around the world and we have a
growing corporate membership as well you
know we have companies like Samsung like
brown like dis so that our members for
example and and corporate members they
they inject the promise of partnership
and sponsorship as well
including offering their industrial
perspective you know to the dialogue and
to opportunities for solutions many
people don't know this but during the
time of our pandemic over the past
couple months the WDO has been working
very very hard very feverishly building
partnerships with other world bodies and
this includes UN agencies for example
the UN habitat and also UN Women and
also with the world packaging
organization we've been building
relationships with cities believe it or
not even the international space station
and you'll see a project coming out on
that front sometime soon I'm proud to
say also that we have taken the
responsibility to apply for NGO
recognized status within the World Trade
Organization as well and also looking to
reinforce our UN consultative status
which the WDO has had since the 1970s
some of the projects are extremely
interesting that we are looking to begin
engaging you know the UN women for
example is a very very interesting
project a very important project looking
to utilize design as a tool to develop
solutions for combating gender
inequality you know and there are really
two parts to that problem first the UN
women tell us that a majority of gender
discrimination is born out of
generations literally hundreds of years
of cultural acceptance so many in
certain regions don't even know that
there
a problem with how women are treated and
this offers design a great opportunity
for communication right and secondly how
can design offer a gateway into
behavioral change you know how can we
show that there's a better way to treat
people and a better way to do things you
know so so so very interesting and
important projects that we're looking to
get engage in but back to environmental
sustainability because that was really
your original question
recently the wdo has been awarded a
society
you know a fairly sizable grant from the
Canadian government to create some tools
guided by unst G's for corporations and
organizations to use to maximize their
understanding and minimize their effect
on the environment you know so
sustainability is really top of mind for
most companies today and some of our
member corporations for example have
implemented very strong initiatives
either independently or together with W
do together with WDO to work towards
sustainability objectives you know
unfortunately we can't do everything at
once but we continue to prioritize and work
towards engaging one thing at a time we
hope you like that show like we
mentioned before this is the first part
of our special episode with David Kazuma
Tune into the second part of our episode
on Thursday 2nd of July where we dig
deeper into conversations of designing
with dynamics and designing with social
responsibility we also get interesting
insights into the questions which were
raised by our audience
[Music]
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[Music]
