

### Interview With Jesus:

### Jesus' Life & Purpose

### By

### Jesus (AJ Miller)

### Session 1

Published by

Divine Truth, Australia at Smashwords

http://www.divinetruth.com/

Copyright 2015 Divine Truth

Smashwords Edition, License Notes

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### This ebook is a transcript of an interview that took place between Jesus (AJ Miller) and Geoff Whitehead on 12th January 2012 in Wilkesdale, Queensland, Australia. In this interview Jesus discusses the reasons for discrepancies and false teachings in Christian religions. He describes his life on Earth in the first century, the life he lived since then in the spirit world, until his return to Earth in 1962, and the reasons for his return to Earth.

### Reminder From Jesus & Mary

### Jesus and Mary would like to remind you that any document produced by Divine Truth containing any information from Jesus, Mary or any other person includes only a portion of God's Truth that they have personally discovered.

### It does not and cannot contain the entire of God's Truth since God's Truth is infinite and humankind will forever continue to discover more of God's Truth as we progress in receiving more of God's Love.

### Please remember that due to these limitations information contained within this document may need to be revised in the future.

### Many other ebooks have been published by Divine Truth, including ebooks translated into a variety of different languages.

### Please visit <http://www.Smashwords.com/profile/view/DivineTruth> or www.divinetruth.com for further information.

### Additional sessions on the subject in this book can be found on www.Smashwords.com/profile/view/DivineTruth

### For more information go to:

Divine Truth (www.divinetruth.com)

Divine Truth Channel on YouTube (www.youtube.com/user/WizardShak)

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Table of Contents

1. Reasons for discrepancies and falsities in Christian religion

1.1. The First Council of Nicaea

1.1.1. The issue of the divinity of Jesus

1.2. The gospel accounts in the Bible

1.2.1. Mary Magdalene's input to the gospels

2. Mary's life after Jesus' death

2.1. Jesus' children and grand-children

3. Clarification of discrepancies and falsities in Christian religion

3.1. The Nicene Creed

3.2. The "virgin birth"

3.3. The perfect child

3.4. Jesus is not God

3.5. At-onement with God is a state attainable for everyone

3.6. Being born again

3.7. Divine Love is available to everyone

3.8. The Holy Trinity

3.9. Jesus did not die for our sins

3.10. The meaning of sin

4. Jesus' childhood years

4.1. Jesus' lineage

4.2. The messiah's prophesied role as a military leader

4.3. Jesus' relationship with the disciples

4.4. Jesus' birth

4.5. Jesus' early childhood

4.5.1. The visit of the three astrologers

4.5.2. Moving to Egypt

4.6. Jesus' school years

4.7. Moving to Nazareth in his teenage years

4.7.1. Befriending John the Baptist

4.8. Realising that he was the messiah

5. Jesus' adulthood prior to becoming at-one with God

5.1. Being assaulted

5.2. Leaving home at the age of twenty-one

5.3. Investigating other truths and religions

5.3.1. The sacrifice of animals

5.4. Jesus' adult years between twenty-two and thirty-one

5.4.1. Moving to Capernaum at the age of twenty-six

6. Jesus' life after becoming at-one with God

6.1. Teaching God's Truths

6.1.1. John the Baptist's capture and death

6.2. Performing healings

6.3. Teaching God's Truths (continued)

6.3.1. Teaching about emotions and the Law of Attraction

6.3.2. The requirements for receiving Divine Love

6.3.3. Teaching about God's Laws

6.3.4. Forgiveness of sin

6.3.5. The sins of the father are visited on the children

6.4. Confronting people's belief systems and the societal systems

6.5. Performing miracles

6.6. Meeting Mary Magdalene

6.7. The nature of Jesus' disciples and apostles

6.8. The Sermon on the Mount and other public teaching

6.9. Raising people "from the dead"

7. Jesus' death

7.1. Reasons for Jesus allowing his death to occur

7.2. Jesus' resurrection

8. Jesus' life in the spirit world

8.1. Mary's and Jesus' family passing into the spirit world

8.2. Meeting famous people and others who had passed

8.2.1. Spirits in the sixth sphere

9. Reasons for returning to Earth

9.1. Fulfilling God's desire for Her children to know Her

9.2. Demonstrating becoming at-one with God from a position of sin

9.3. The Divine expression of femininity

9.4. Changing society on Earth

9.5. Rolling up of the hells

9.6. Possible impedances to Jesus' goals

9.7. Jesus' current condition

10. Closing words

10.1. The interviewer's experiences with Divine Truth

1. Reasons for discrepancies and falsities in Christian religion

Interviewer: This is my third interview now with AJ, who's by himself this time, without Mary. This interview is called "The Real Life and Purpose of Jesus." First we are going to start with what I called the confusion of your life and your teachings and the reason for this. I googled and found out that over the last two thousand years three thousand eight hundred different denominations have arisen.

Jesus: Of Christian religions. (Laughs)

Interviewer: Of Christian religions, and so it's apparent that there is a bit of confusion as to what is important.

Jesus: And disagreement. (Laughs)

Interviewer: And disagreement, yep.

Jesus: And historically sometimes that disagreement got quite intense at times. (Laughs)

Interviewer: Yeah. You've stated that much of the biblical account of your life and teachings are false, inaccurate, incomplete, misinterpreted, and in some cases even deliberately deleted.

Jesus: Yep, and deliberately modified, in some cases.

1.1. The First Council of Nicaea

Interviewer: I've said that probably the first attempt to get a consensus in the Christian world as we know it was the First Council of Nicaea in 325 AD, by the emperor Constantine, who you've described as a fairly violent man.

Jesus: Well he had large aspirations to power of course, as did most Roman emperors, but also he was quite a clever man so he could see that the fragmentation of the Roman Empire was not only just about secular issues but also about religious issues. He wanted to pull the Roman Empire back into one empire and he felt that the way to do that was by unifying politics with religion.

Interviewer: It says that he invited about one thousand eight hundred bishops from all over the Roman empire, and about three hundred showed up.

Jesus: That's correct, yes. The rest were quite upset with the whole concept. Many of the ones that were upset with the whole concept never came and therefore of course were never included in the final decisions.

Interviewer: And the end result was not what you'd call a democratic process.

Jesus: No, not at all. In fact, many times there was quite strong bickering, even amongst the final decision makers, as to what they should include in the Bible canon, and also what they should include as the primary doctrines of Christianity. There was often quite a lot of discord and quite murderous intent at times between the people who were present.

1.1.1. The issue of the divinity of Jesus

Interviewer: The main issue there seemed to be the divinity of Christ.

Jesus: Yes, a concept that had slowly developed after my death because no one after my death could mirror my condition so they then started the concept, even many Christians who followed the basic teachings of Christianity that I taught. They started to consider that perhaps it wasn't possible for the average person ever to become Divine in the sense that I was teaching and so they finished up modifying quite a number of the teachings to suit their new concept: that it was impossible for them to become Divine as I had encouraged them to become. They started to infiltrate the teachings with these concepts; that there was something unique and special about myself that others could not mirror, and there were issues of competition with other people who were the so-called gurus of different religions in times past. They finished up amalgamating and absorbing many of the concepts into my life that surrounded the legends about those particular people, to create God on Earth. [00:04:38.00]

Interviewer: Was this to appease the Jews? Was this to get on side with the Jews? Or to relate to them?

Jesus: No, it was an attempt to appease almost every other religious faith. The attempt was to incorporate not only the faith of the Jews but also many of the teachings of Hinduism and Buddhism and other religions. I was compared to the founders of those religions and when it was found that my life was too ordinary, it was then modified to be competitive with the founders of those particular faiths.

Interviewer: Okay, so even in three hundred years, you had been elevated to a state of god-like status?

Jesus: Yes. That occurred very shortly after my death actually. Even in the first hundred years this elevation of myself into a sort of like a god-like state that was unattainable by anyone else was presumed. That was then incorporated into the copyists' revisions of the Bible because of course all the manuscripts of the Bible were copied by hand at that time, and then the teachings of the copyist would often be reflected in the modifications he would make to the text. He would say, "Oh he couldn't say that, because that doesn't make any sense to me." He would put in a word or two here and there, "and now it makes more sense to me, I can get that now." And then the next copyist would do the same, and the next copyist would do the same. Then of course there were emotions of many of the so-called priesthood or the ministers of the faith that got incorporated into those copies, and by three hundred years later there was a gross distortion of what I really taught, incorporated into the so-called canon.

1.2. The gospel accounts in the Bible

Interviewer: There are synoptic gospels, as they are described by Matthew, Mark and Luke. They were written about forty years after your death, is that correct?

Jesus: Yeah.

Interviewer: And John, about sixty AD? Which of those is possibly the more accurate?

Jesus: Well, they all contain inaccuracies, unfortunately. The original texts were actually accurate accountings. For example, I only met Luke once in my life on Earth, and he was only six years of age. When Luke put together his gospel he was actually going by firsthand experiences with other people who he went back to Israel to interview. Of course he had the firsthand account available of Mary Magdalene, my partner, because he married my daughter Sarah. He had the first hand experience of my soulmate to get a lot of his material so what he wrote was relatively accurate at the time. However that also got distorted through this process of copying, revisionists and so forth. What they originally wrote was quite accurate but unfortunately due to the changes that were made and so forth, by the time the council of Nicaea came along there were already quite a lot of strong distortions as well. [00:08:08.00]

1.2.1. Mary Magdalene's input to the gospels

Interviewer: Of the three synoptic gospels, theologians have said that possibly the three of them were copied from another source, which they call Q.

Jesus: Yep, which is actually my soulmate.

Interviewer: Explain?

Jesus: Well, Mary was still alive, and Mary was the person who knew the most about the teachings that I gave while I was on Earth. But there were a lot of problems that the disciples around her had in actually exposing to the world that she was still alive, because the Roman army were still on the lookout for Mary. They wanted to kill her still; they wanted to kill my child and so the disciples were all trying to keep Mary's identity and also safety in play constantly. That meant that Mary, who had the widest knowledge of my life and also the greatest knowledge of myself and my own personality and so forth, knew these other disciples - Matthew, Mark, and even Luke because he was our son-in-law, and all of these people could go back to Mary and actually get the material from her.

Interviewer: Just verbally? Did she write?

Jesus: Just verbally. They got the material from her and after my death that is the primary source of information about my life and what actually did happen. Mary was the primary source. That happened through a process of interviews and so forth with her, and spending time with her and finding out.

2. Mary's life after Jesus' death

Interviewer: How long did she actually live?

Jesus: She lived for nearly an additional thirty years after my passing. She was tortured to death by the Roman army who eventually caught up with her in southern France, and she died in southern France.

Interviewer: As part of the prosecution of Christians?

Jesus: No, more a specific focus on finding my partner, the person to whom I was married.

Interviewer: Why did they have that issue when you were already out of the way? You weren't stirring up the pot.

Jesus: Well, the original feeling of the Sanhedrin at the time of my passing was that if they killed me the whole movement would die off. After a number of years it was quite evident that not only was the movement not dying off but it was actually growing. That eventually became quite a concern to the Roman powers at the time, and it was also quite a concern to the Jews; the Jews did not want that happening either and so there were quite a lot of cooperative efforts in order to find Mary and to kill her. It was also rumoured that I'd had a child and there was this cooperative effort to find my children and kill them as well. [00:11:10.00]

2.1. Jesus' children and grand-children

Interviewer: And your child was Sarah, and she survived?

Jesus: She was born after I passed, obviously. She was born in Egypt and then shortly after her birth they were forced to flee from Egypt. They fled via ship to the South of France via the islands Malta and Cyprus and through Sicily and so forth into southern France.

Interviewer: And so there is something to this bloodline, is there?

Jesus: No, because shortly after the time of Mary's passing, both Luke and Sarah and their three children, my three grandchildren, were all murdered, and nobody survived after that.

Interviewer: What was the circumstance of that?

Jesus: We are now talking thirty years after my death. By this stage Mary was teaching again. She was teaching quite openly in the south of France; she had a quite a large following. The Romans heard about this and they found her. There was a few days' warning that they were going to find her and Mary decided to stay behind. Mary decided to just face the army rather than flee because up to this point she'd spent most of her life in hiding and she was quite tired of fleeing. She was in her fifties by this stage, so she was quite tired of fleeing. But Luke, Sarah and the three grandchildren were all still wanting to stay alive of course, so they decided to flee. They left southern France and went to Italy via boat. Unfortunately though, the Roman army were also told where they were, and on the boat Luke and the three children were murdered. Sarah actually survived to old age, because they thought her eldest daughter was Sarah.

Jesus: So, Luke and Sarah had three children. The eldest was a daughter, and when the Romans killed the four of them, Luke and the three children, they thought the oldest child was actually his wife, and so they did not pursue Sarah anymore. Sarah went back to southern France eventually. She had a very hard time in her life. She went back to southern France and she actually started the movement that you would now call the nun movement. It was very similar. She looked after children for the rest of her life, taught some of the truths about Divine Truth until her own death and she died of old age. She never remarried and she never had more children. That was the end of our lineage; there is no sacred bloodline or anything like that. [00:14:22.00]

3. Clarification of discrepancies and falsities in Christian religion

3.1. The Nicene Creed

Interviewer: At the end of the council of Nicaea they put together the Nicene Creed, which I was asked to say when I was in my early twenties as a member of the Uniting Church as a part of my confirmation.

Jesus: It's interesting how long it's lasted, isn't it? (Laughs)

Interviewer: Yes it is. I read the Nicene Creed and I thought, "Whoa, I can't really say that," because there were things that just didn't ring true for me.

Jesus: And that would be the case I feel for many Christians, wouldn't it? If they actually knew the full authorised teachings of their own religion, many of them would disagree with those authorised teachings.

Interviewer: Yeah. I'm going to mention a few things which I know a lot of Christian people still regard as basic fundamentals of Christianity.

Jesus: Of the Christian faith.

Interviewer: Of the Christian faith.

3.2. The "virgin birth"

Interviewer: First of all, the virgin birth: many people have been criticised for doubting that your mother was a virgin.

Jesus: (Laughs) Which I find quite amusing.

Interviewer: So obviously there's no truth in the virgin birth. Previous people in history...

Jesus: Have been accorded the same honour, shall we call it?

Interviewer: And this was to equate you with them?

Jesus: Yes. My mother obviously had sex with my father Joseph. I came into the world the same way as everybody else comes into the world. There was no difference whatsoever.

3.3. The perfect child

Interviewer: Okay. Now the Christmas songs talk about a perfect child. Were you a perfect child?

Jesus: Yes I was. Obviously it happened at the time of my birth and I can explain the process of what happened but I'm still not completely aware of why God made that choice. But at the time of my birth, after the umbilical cord was separated, God cleared away all of my parental emotional injuries from me. [00:16:46.00]

Interviewer: That was my next question, because you say today that a lot of our parental emotions are there before we are actually born and we have to work through those. You did not have to work through that?

Jesus: No. However that did not mean that I did not have some stressful experiences through my life because of my parents' Law of Attraction. In other words their soul condition affected different experiences, which meant that at times I was attacked and I was sometimes abused, sometimes beaten; sometimes other things would occur to me as well but I didn't have a personal feeling that it was my fault in any way, or a poor sense of self worth. One of the things that happened was that from a very young age I had a good sense of my own worth or my own self. In fact I had a much better sense of my own worth or self than I currently have, with the injuries that I am currently still carrying.

Jesus: For me to assimilate truth after that was quite easy. I could see when everyone around me wasn't right, when there was an emotion that they had in play that I didn't think or feel that caused them to think or feel a certain way. In that regard I was basically cleared of parental sin, if you want to use that biblical term, or parental emotional unloving experiences, which is the same thing. Anything out of harmony with love is sin, and I was cleared of that sin. But that still didn't stop events that were not very loving towards myself occurring in my life, which I had to allow myself to feel and deal with as they happened.

Interviewer: But you were not the one playing up in the family; your mother was very lucky. (Laughs)

Jesus: Yes, my mother in the first century often viewed me as the ideal son and I suppose in a lot of ways I was the ideal son. Ironically my mum now has had very similar emotions too. Even with the injuries that I've had, she's often felt that I was the ideal son as well. But in the first century my mother didn't have an awareness of why that was the case; she just thought I was a good boy, basically. Everyone around basically didn't notice much difference in me, aside from the fact that I was gentle and a good boy, as you would term it nowadays. I always tried my best with everything that I did, and I wasn't ever violent or angry, which was very unusual back then but it wasn't something that everyone really noticed because they were totally involved in their own life, as most people are now, a bit self-absorbed in their own life and so they don't really notice the personality of others. [00:19:47.00]

Interviewer: If you were picked on as a kid, like all kids are, you walked away?

Jesus: Yes, I walked away and I also understood the emotion in the other person as to why they were picking on me. I didn't take it on as self-blame or self-hatred, and I didn't feel like I had to defend it because I had a fairly good viewpoint of myself. I didn't feel like I had to defend the attack and a lot of people around me thought that was weakness; during my childhood that was often played upon. They thought because I was accepting of these particular things, they called that weak. My own father was often quite concerned about how "weak" I was and he did certain things to toughen me up as a result.

Interviewer: Didn't call you Sue or anything like that. (Laughter)

3.4. Jesus is not God

Interviewer: Okay, Jesus was God incarnate, God walking with men on Earth.

Jesus: There is some truth in that, in the sense that when you become at-one with God, God is able to transmit His feelings through you to others. Once I was in the condition of at-onement with God, which occurred when I was in my early thirties, people around me could feel the presence of God, if you like, because I was reflecting God's feelings and God's thoughts on every single matter. In that way you could say those words, but not in the way that they are now implied. The way that they are now implied is that I began as God and then I somehow disavowed myself as God and became a human, and then after I passed I became God again, and while I was on Earth I was a god-man. Those particular thoughts are distortions of that underlying truth of at-onement with God.

Interviewer: Did you say, "When you see me, you see the Father?"

Jesus: Yes, definitely.

Interviewer: Okay. You were saying that when you see me, you see attributes of the Father, not God?

Jesus: Exactly. What I was implying all the time was that if you became at-one with God, you would reflect God's nature in all of your dealings with others and therefore everyone around you would start to feel the personality or nature of God, because you are at-one with God and therefore you are reflecting God's personality and nature through you. That's why I also said the words, "You must become perfect as your Heavenly Father is perfect," because to become at-one with God you have to become perfect. All of these teachings get distorted by different language or different feelings that happen as a result of different people intellectualising the process that I was teaching as an emotional process. Initially there were underlying truths in many of the statements I've made that have now been misinterpreted and taught as something different to what they actually are. [00:23:05.00]

Interviewer: I recall one passage where someone says, "Good teacher" and the biblical account says, "Don't call me good, only God is good."

Jesus: Exactly. And I did actually say that.

Interviewer: Okay, and that always confused me as a child because I thought well...

Jesus: How could I be God and not good? (Laughs)

Interviewer: Yeah, that's right. If you are God then they have the right to call you good, surely?

Jesus: Yeah, and what I was always trying to do was to demonstrate the separateness of God and myself. In other words, I always said that God was my Father, that God was my source of life, God was my Creator, I am His creation and so forth. I was always teaching a separation between myself and God as an identity or an entity, but not a separation in terms of the feelings that were coming out of me, because I was at-one with God. I had now taken on God's Love to such an extent that I was now divine in the sense that all of God's qualities and nature and attributes could be demonstrated though myself, through that connection that I had with God. It's the distortion of that understanding that has resulted in the Christian teachings that are now false. [00:24:21.00]

3.5. At-onement with God is a state attainable for everyone

Interviewer: Now that's a major distortion. If you were to be an example of what we are to become, and then we elevate you to a level where your life is now unattainable, then that is a huge distortion that must have made you fairly sad?

Jesus: Well, a person at-one with God doesn't get sad, but I've certainly had feelings about it in this life, about the distortion. The reality is that it has created difficulties for many Christians in their life, both while they were on Earth and also when they passed into the spirit world. Unfortunately, all untruth does that; every time untruth is presented as truth it does have an effect on lives, and depending on how popular the lie is, the lives of millions. Unfortunately in my case, the distortions of the truth have resulted in pain for millions of people. When I look at the pain of those millions of people, obviously one of the reasons why we've returned is that we want to correct that so that this pain does not exist continually. And of course we spend a lot of time in the spirit world trying to undo the results of that particular pain that were created by the distortion of truth.

Jesus: From a happiness perspective, I personally was still happy because I was at-one with God. But I do see the truth or the lack of it as a major creation of unhappiness and pain and suffering. Christians historically have experienced a fair proportion of pain and suffering because of some of these distortions of truth and this whole idea that my life was unattainable as a result of me now being God incarnate is something that was totally opposite to what I was attempting to teach. I was trying to teach that everyone could change, everyone could become perfect, everyone could become what God designed them to be. Everyone could become at-one with God and experience the happiness of that connection. And yet one of the results of the teaching eventually, or the modifications of the teaching, has been that nobody can because I was the only person who's perfect. And now Christians totally believe this. [00:26:43.00]

3.6. Being born again

Interviewer: The way you described that was to be born again, is it not?

Jesus: Yes.

Interviewer: Now Christians bandied that term around, you know, "You are a born-again Christian."

Jesus: Yes.

Interviewer: What is the difference between your being born again and a born-again Christian?

Jesus: Well, being born again is a transition of the soul. It's like the soul turning from a caterpillar into a butterfly. It is that kind of miraculous transition, and it's a transition that occurs because of the reception of Divine Love into the soul to such an extent that you are now at-one with God and it's impossible for you to think, feel or act out of harmony with the Love of God that exists within you.

Interviewer: Why is a born-again Christian not like that?

Jesus: Well, for a born-again Christian, they say they are born again because of their sacrifice or because of their faith in the blood of Jesus and my blood does not accomplish this particular transformation. In fact, it's impossible to do this transformation without the reception of Divine Love into the human soul. That's where I feel a lot of mistakes are made. Christians are attributing being born again to belief in myself or belief in the saving grace of my blood when the reality is that it needs to be attributed to God's Love entering the soul. That's the transformational thing that causes you to become born again. It's not something that happens overnight. It's a process that happens until you get to a point of at-onement with God.

Jesus: You can receive bits and pieces of Divine Love and as you receive more and more, eventually you receive so much that there is no trace of imperfection within you anymore. You are now the person God created you to be. It's a process; it is not something that can be instant, where you become born again from some instant kind of transformation. You can think of it like gestation through to birth; there is a process of change that must occur. I illustrated that through many of my illustrations, like the old wine skin, the new wine skin illustration, that the soul had to change to receive Divine Love. That's what that illustration was all about.

Jesus: The illustration about building on the rock mass compared to building on the sand, again, that illustration was all about this transformation. The sand was your own love, building on your own love, trying to change your own love, trying to do what you felt was right. When building on the rock mass, the rock mass was God's Love entering the soul, creating stability. You now have a firmness in you for truth and love and eventually when we become at-one with God it's so stable, nothing can shake it. These were illustrations that I gave that are now misunderstood. But I gave them all trying to illustrate the point of the difference between developing in natural love and developing by receiving God's Love. [00:29:47.00]

3.7. Divine Love is available to everyone

Interviewer: But a born-again Christian can still pray to God with sincerity, and you say they can still receive Divine Love, even though they may have a misinterpretation of the doctrine?

Jesus: Every single person on the planet, of any religious background, whether they are Christian or any other religion, can receive Divine Love from God because God is not dependent upon religious denomination. God is also not dependent upon intellectual belief, so it doesn't really matter what our intellectual belief is, as to whether we receive Divine Love. What matters more is what our emotions are feeling with God. When I have a longing towards God to receive Love, God will give me that Love as long as there is no emotional impediment within me to receiving it. Any person of any faith can do that, including a born-again Christian. Some born-again Christians have received a lot of Divine Love as a result of their desire for God's Love, or as they may call it, God's Grace. As a result of that they've received a lot of Divine Love.

Jesus: Unfortunately, what happens eventually is that a lack of truth catches up with us. We believe we have received Divine Love because of certain things; that false belief prevents us from receiving more until we release that belief. With every single religious format on Earth, until they bring themselves into harmony with God's Truths, not their own, not men's created truths, but God's Truths, they are not going to be able to become at-one with God. They can receive Divine Love but not to the point of at-onement. To become at-one with God you have to have God's Truth in you and that's very different to having men's truth in you, or some kind of denominational truth in you.

3.8. The Holy Trinity

Interviewer: The doctrine of the trinity, the Father, the Son and the Holy Ghost, I've never quite understood.

Jesus: And to most Christians it is a mystery.

Interviewer: This transaction that is needed to occur for the forgiveness of sins.

Jesus: Again, there is some truth in some of these things and then it got distorted through this process that we were talking about before. The actual truth is that there is God, the Creator of the universe and the Creator of love, and God has Her own Love to give to all of Her creations. Then there is myself, the first person on this planet who ever received God's Love to the point of at-onement with God. So there is God and there is Jesus; we are separate entities and in fact I will never, ever become God. I can become like God because I am receiving Divine Love from God to the point of at-onement with God, and even further than that; you can receive more and more Divine Love constantly through this relationship with God. You get to the point where because you're at-one with God and have God's thoughts on all matters, in that place you're obviously very, very clear about truth, what is true and what is not true. That's a beautiful place to be in. But that's me, still a man in this transformed place. So the man, the grub if you like, has now become the butterfly or the Divine Angel through this process. That's still a separate entity to God. There is no God the son, God the Father. There is just God the Father; there is no God the son. There is a son who has become a divine being through this process of receiving Divine Love and the process via which he received Divine Love was through the connection with the Holy Spirit. [00:33:36.00]

Jesus: The Holy Spirit is like the spirit of truth; in other words, while I am in a state of truth in comparison to God's Truth, and it has to be God's Truth, not man's truth, I can receive Love. When I'm out of harmony with Truth, the connection between myself and God is broken. The Holy Spirit is the connection, the physical connection that connects us with God, if we are in a state of Truth. It's not an entity, it's a force, or you could more accurately say, it's a conduit for the force of Love. The reason why I called it the Holy Spirit is that anything to do with Love is the most Holy possible thing you could consider.

Jesus: There are other spirits of God. There is a creative spirit of God, there's a wisdom, which is also a spirit of God, and so forth but they are nothing in comparison to this Holy Spirit, which is the conduit of Divine Love. The only way in which a human soul can grow is by connecting to that conduit.

3.9. Jesus did not die for our sins

Interviewer: Most Christians say that Jesus died for our sins; it's the first thing that someone who is knocking at your door will tell you. And yet my grandfather who was a minister of religion, and quite a smart one, he told me that there is actually no reference in any of the gospels to your mentioning or connecting your death with the forgiveness of sins.

Jesus: Exactly. In fact quite the contrary.

Interviewer: So you never said it and it's not even in the Bible. Why do we think that you died for our sins?

Jesus: Well, this is an emotion in mankind; they always want to make somebody else responsible for their badness. We always want for somebody else to be blamed for what I did wrong. You see this happening all the time in mankind. The ultimate of that is to get one man to be responsible for all of the wrongs of all of humanity.

Interviewer: A scapegoat.

Jesus: A scapegoat, taken to that extension. The reality is that it doesn't make any logical sense whatsoever. Firstly my blood is a physical force, nothing to do with a spiritual matter, so how can blood actually save anybody? If you look at the body that I had two thousand years ago, my blood is now in trees, plants, the ground, all through the Middle East most probably. Yet it had no effect on clearing away the sins of most of the people involved who even put faith in it, in the sense that almost everyone who says they have faith in my blood as the saving force continues to sin, which is proof in itself that my blood does nothing. If my blood did something, they would all no longer sin. It makes no logical sense and it is also not what I taught.

Jesus: In fact, if you think about it, all of the gospel accounts refer to me teaching the truth about God's Love entering the soul to this transformational point, which is the born-again point, and I taught that before I died. I didn't say it was dependent upon my death, I said it was dependent upon listening to my words, which is very, very different. And this is, I feel, something that's a major distortion, again, of the truth. Unfortunately it causes people to feel that they don't have to have any personal effort involved in the process of uniting with God, and that is a gross untruth that unfortunately causes a lot of people to stagnate in their spiritual development. [00:37:26.00]

Interviewer: I quoted this to a friend of mine about thirty years ago, that you never actually connected your death to the forgiveness of sins. He believed it and he went away and he searched his Bible and he came back and he said, "Here we go, it says here, John the Baptist – behold the son of man who has come to take away the sins of the Earth."

Jesus: Which is exactly why I came. But it doesn't say that my blood did it? It said, "Behold, the son of men has come to take away sins of the Earth," which is exactly a truth. The whole reason why I feel that God began that process with me in the first century, and then I embraced it - because I had to actually take action to embrace the process of becoming at-one with God - was so that everyone on Earth was shown by God how to become at-one with God and therefore become sinless, and therefore take away the sins of the Earth. The reality is that my life did demonstrate how to become at-one with God and therefore how to take away your sin, but it was just not through my death or my blood, or my flesh dying that caused that transition.

3.10. The meaning of sin

Interviewer: Now, I've heard you describe in more modern, contemporary terms the word 'sin.' Can you describe that again?

Jesus: Sin is anything that is disharmonious with God's Love.

Interviewer: So okay. I've heard you say error.

Jesus: Yes, it is error, anything disharmonious with God's Love is error or untruth and therefore it is a sin. Unfortunately sin enters us emotionally. In other words we believe it and then it becomes a part of our life, and then we actually feel it to be true.

Jesus: For example, it's a sin for you to believe that you're not the best of God's creation. The reason why it's a sin is that from God's perspective, God sees you as the pinnacle of Her creation. And if God sees you as that, and you don't see yourself as that, you are now sinning. You have now disagreed with God, you are now in error, and you are now sinning. There's no punishment necessarily associated with it, with the exception that while you believe that you are not a pinnacle of God's creation you are probably going to act like you are not the pinnacle of God's creation, which has its own consequences. But there is no punishment from God directly for you to take those beliefs because God gave you the free will to make the choice, to believe that if that's what you wish. [00:40:09.00]

4. Jesus' childhood years

Interviewer: Okay, we are going to move on now to memories.

4.1. Jesus' lineage

Interviewer: First of all, your birth: you've stated that you were in fact the messiah as foretold in the Old Testament. Judaism believed that the messiah would be a descendant of David, would observe Jewish law and would be a great military leader. Were you any of these and if not, why not?

Jesus: Well I was a descendant of David; my family did descend from David.

Interviewer: To Joseph?

Jesus: Yeah.

Interviewer: That's an interesting point because I've heard people say that Mary was a virgin, so that connection sort of disappears; if Joseph had nothing to do with it, why trace everything back to Joseph? So you were a descendant of David.

Jesus: Exactly. The reality though in the first century was that generally you didn't know who your father was; there was no genetic test to link you with your father, it was only presumed based on your mother's word. The reality is that the only way a genetic line could actually be traced, given the technology of the time, was through the mother. My mother was also a descendant of David; both my mother and my father were from the tribe of Judah and descendants of David. [00:41:31.00]

4.2. The messiah's prophesied role as a military leader

Interviewer: But you weren't a great military leader.

Jesus: Well, my father expected me to be and so did many of my disciples. In fact one of the things that caused my death was the beliefs of some of my disciples that I would become this great military leader to lead them away from the oppression of Rome and the oppression of the Jewish religious leaders as well. There was a lot of radicalism in the first century. I remember as a child seeing what you would now call terrorists, who had opposed either the Roman Empire or the Jewish Sanhedrin in some way, hung on crosses on the side of the streets that you would walk down.

Jesus: It was a time of generally radical behaviour because people were tired of the oppression. They then expected me to be the relief from the oppressor and I taught that relief from the oppressor only came through love, by loving the oppressor. Then the oppressor would see that they had nothing to fear and therefore was highly unlikely to ever attack you as a result.

4.3. Jesus' relationship with the disciples

Jesus: Hardly any of my disciples understood that. By the time of my death Mary understood it, but very few others did, although John understood it quite well. Peter and Judas and many others of the so-called twelve, which is another discussion, did not understand that principle at all. Judas himself wanted to cause a confrontation between myself and the religious leaders and the Romans, which is the primary reason why...

Interviewer: So that you could reveal your power as a military...?

Jesus: Yes, many of my disciples had a quite a condescending viewpoint towards me in that they felt that they knew how I should proceed with my ministry better than I did. They tried quite often to force me down a path, which often had unexpected results for them, and it was frequently with different things that they would organise.

Interviewer: But surely by that point you would have taught pacifism?

Jesus: Certainly, which they disagreed with. They thought that that was just one of my failings. They felt that I had a few failings. They thought that Mary was one of my failings. They believed that my soulmate, because of her history and background, was one of my weaknesses. They also believed that my pacifism was a weakness. They believed that my statements of truth and use of illustration were a bit of a weakness. They could not often understand my parables, and quite often I had long discussions with them after talking about a parable about what it actually meant to them in their own lives. They also had a lot of difficulty with prayer, they had a lot of difficulty connecting with God, they didn't understand the connection with God. There were a few that did; many of the women did, but very few of the men. Only a very few of the men really understood what it meant to ever become at-one with God, and that prayer was the feeling of longing for God and longing for God's Love. [00:45:15.00]

4.4. Jesus' birth

Interviewer: What were the circumstances of your birth? It's not the Christmas story. I've heard you going into a lot of detail. You don't have to go into so much detail.

Jesus: Well, you've got to remember that the circumstances of my birth have been told to me, because at that stage you don't have a developed intellect to actually remember the event so I can only recount to you what my mother and father have told me.

Jesus: The circumstances of my birth were that we were living in Nazareth at the time, and then Joseph, my father, and Mary decided to travel to Joseph's land, which was down in Bethlehem. This was done for a variety of reasons but the primary reason was my mother's worry. My mother was worried because just around about this time period in Nazareth there was quite a lot of what you would call terrorism, or random acts of violence, caused by people who were against Roman oppression, but they were also unfortunately themselves oppressing the common people. In Nazareth we'd had a number of these events while my mother was pregnant, just before my birth. My mother wanted to go somewhere safer, and somewhere safer was closer to the Roman garrison, which happened to be in Jerusalem.

Jesus: So my father and my mother decided to travel to Bethlehem and as it turned out we rocked up there at night, just on dusk. Back then hospitality was never presumed upon; even if it was offered to you, you wouldn't presume that you should say yes to it. One of my father's brothers offered for us to stay in the home that he had, which would have meant moving some of the children out of one room and so forth, so quite a lot of trouble. My father, feeling bad that he had rocked up near evening, decided that that would not be suitable under any circumstance. So we finished up staying in what the Bible now calls the manger, or what you would now in Australia call just a barn, a shed, where the cattle were kept or where the sheep were kept.

Jesus: Usually by this stage the sheep were kept close by because it was nearing winter time, and winter in Jerusalem can get quite bitter and in Bethlehem the same. They would generally keep the animals in at night and let them out during the day, and put them back in at night and so forth. It was the transition between autumn and winter and they were kept outdoors generally, sometimes overnight. The shepherds would stay outdoors but shortly near Christmas time, or near what you call Christmas time now, they would bring them indoors. Now, I wasn't born on Christmas day. At the time December the 25th happened to be the shortest day of the year. December the 25th was chosen because it was the time the Romans worshipped the sun god. It was the shortest day, and they would have a big celebration about the lengthening of the days now, working towards spring and then summer, from winter. So they decided, as part of the amalgamation of teachings, to put my birth date on December the 25th. I was not born on December the 25th. [00:49:11.00]

Interviewer: You really don't have an idea, but you think it was around September?

Jesus: Well, I was born in the month of Tishri, which is more like September/October of our time now. And I died in the month of Nisan, which is anywhere between March and April our time now, remembering of course that we had a lunar calendar, not a solar calendar, and every 50th year we'd have a jubilee to catch up with the solar calendar. This was the way of the Jews. To calculate it accurately in terms of my birth date is quite a complex mathematical calculation, going back two thousand years.

4.5. Jesus' early childhood

Interviewer: Now, your early childhood. Do you have any early childhood memories, say up to the age of ten?

Jesus: Yeah, lots of early childhood memories. I can remember as a very young child, just a few years of age, playing by the side of the river. I suppose I should mention that we moved to Egypt; that is an accurate thing that happened since my birth. Some of the events that the Bible portrays from my birth are accurate but mistimed, and others are a bit inaccurate and embellished; this is the best way to put it.

4.5.1. The visit of the three astrologers

Jesus: I did have three Magi, you would probably now call them astrologers, come from the East to visit me when I was around two and a bit months old, nearly three months old. They did offer some gifts, nothing of substantial value as the Bible would seem to imply at this point, but there were little trinkets I suppose you would call them. They also came with a warning because they had actually visited Herod before they visited my father. They had said to Herod, "We're looking for the messiah, the king of the Jews." Herod of course had a major issue with that; he was a despot and violently so. He had no compunction in killing all of the members of his family in order to stay presiding as the ruler. In fact his whole desire was to have his entire family murdered at the time of his death so that none of them could fight with each other to become another Herod. He was quite a violent man and he didn't really care.

Jesus: He was very concerned about the messianic prophecies; in fact it was an obsession of his, so when these astrologists came to him he was obviously very concerned. He tried to find out where they went to find myself and my father and my mother. They warned my father about Herod's interests and my father then also had quite a lot of feelings from the spirit world about our safety, which meant he decided to move to Egypt when I was about four months of age. And we went there on foot.

4.5.2. Moving to Egypt

Jesus: Remember, we've still got the house in Nazareth, which we hadn't visited all that time. We went to Egypt and we lived on the Nile delta, as did millions of other Jews actually at the time. There was a synagogue there, and there were over a million other Jews in the city nearby us. My father practiced his artisanship, which is like a builder nowadays, and became quite wealthy through that process. [00:53:08.00]

Jesus: My father did some things with me. I can remember playing as a young boy on the side of the river, being fascinated in creation, having my father quite confused about my nature because at this stage he felt I was the messiah, but he thought I'd be some warrior. He was trying to teach me to become a warrior. I was very gentle and the more he tried to teach me to become a warrior, the more gentle I became, which often infuriated him. He decided to educate me, which was something that he possibly would not have done if he didn't feel I was the messiah, so I went to school from a quite a young age in the first century.

4.6. Jesus' school years

Interviewer: Were you a bright kid?

Jesus: Yeah, I was pretty much as I am now I suppose. I caught on pretty quickly with everything; I learned to speak a few different languages in the process. I was also fascinated with what you would call the prophetic books of the Old Testament, which were scrolls in our time.

Interviewer: From what age?

Jesus: From the age of five. I was fascinated, I loved it; I loved to study. You didn't have to force me to go to school. I'd be gone before mum and dad knew, pretty much. We had usually three hours of it in the morning. I spent a lot of time talking to the person who ran the synagogue and with the other school students, who were more wealthy than my family; I finished up rubbing shoulders with wealthier children for a period of time.

Interviewer: Now, Luke is the only Gospel that mentions John the Baptist as a relative. You've said that he is a cousin of yours and that you're six months apart. Was he one of your childhood friends?

Jesus: No, because I never met him until I was twelve. I didn't have that many friends when I was in Egypt because everyone thought I was too gentle by nature and I was a bit ridiculed because of being quite gentle. My father got quite concerned and so when I was seven years of age, he put me in a school with what you would now call now Roman mercenaries; they ran a school to train people in the military arts. I was trained in how to use a sword, and I was trained in how to use all these different things, and how to fight and so forth, and I was quite resistive to the process. On top of all that, they had women there that the school leaders would use as prostitutes basically, and they often had daughters. They usually incorporated the sons into the army, but any daughters those women had, they would use them as prostitutes as well, to train the children who were learning the military arts how to rape and pillage, basically. [00:56:40.00]

Interviewer: How did you react to all that?

Jesus: I was really distressed about it. In fact, I befriended one of the younger girls who was being raped pretty regularly, in terms of just trying to help her to break away from the whole environment and leave, but I was never successful. It was one of the feelings I felt disappointed about. I remember having quite a number of cries about that. Eventually I got quite upset about it and I refused to go which my father was quite angry about because he just saw it as another failure of me becoming the messiah.

4.7. Moving to Nazareth in his teenage years

Interviewer: You had a move at about ten or eleven.

Jesus: Yeah, we moved by sea. By this stage I had two sisters and five brothers. There were basically eight children, and mum and dad, so ten of us, and it was a bit hard to move us all by land. My father sold up everything that he had there at the time, and converted it all into gold and we took a ship from Alexandria to Joppa, and then came in from the coast to Nazareth.

Interviewer: Now we're into your teenage years.

4.7.1. Befriending John the Baptist

Jesus: Yeah, and that's when I first met John the Baptist, my cousin. We were fast friends from the moment we met.

Interviewer: You've described him as being mediumistic like yourself. What do you mean by that?

Jesus: Well, he talked to spirits like I did when I was young, and he was also deeply spiritual. Because his father was a priest and quite aged, he had the same kind of background as me in a lot of ways; he wasn't into the military arts so much, he was more gentle, although sometimes his nature wasn't that gentle when he got speaking. But he was more gentle, he promoted natural love; he was deeply connected with natural love. We had some spirit friends in common which meant that we spent a lot of our time together investigating things spiritually through conversations with our spirit friends and through different investigations we used to make with our spirit friends and so forth while we were together. We lived quite separately from each other, a long distance of two hundred kilometers or so away from each other, but we got to see each other usually twice a year generally and usually for a month to two months at a time, because my father would travel down to Jerusalem. [00:59:32.00]

Jesus: My father at this stage was very keen on becoming a member of the Sanhedrin. He was a Pharisee and he was very keen on his Pharisaic life. And he also saw it as a responsibility to bring me up as the messiah, to be a Pharisee and so he attempted to inculcate most of the Pharisaic teachings to myself. As a result of that we went down to Jerusalem quite regularly, considering how difficult it was to go. Because my father by this stage had a quite thriving business, he had about thirty employees, he could afford to go for months at a time. He had a good foreman and he could afford to go for a month or a couple of months at a time. Eventually my father bought a house in Jerusalem so that we could frequent between the two places. John the Baptist being close by, a couple of kilometers from Jerusalem, we got to spend lots of time together during those four months of the year.

Interviewer: And he had some sort of vibe that you were destined for something?

Jesus: Well, the spirits with him were telling him the same things that they were telling me of course. But that was a bit later. When we would spend time apart they would talk to him about my role, what would be my future role and so forth and he would relate those things back to me sometimes, or to other people. When he started his ministry he used to relate those things quite frequently.

4.8. Realising that he was the messiah

Interviewer: How old were you when you had this realisation, a definite realisation that you were the messiah and that you had a role to play?

Jesus: Well, my father had always told me that I was the messiah and I didn't believe him. My readings of the prophesies were all about love; every time I read them I could see that God was trying to teach humankind about love, about softening their heart. Not hardening their heart, not being violent but being gentle, having morality, having a connection with truth. Some of the prophetic books really interested me. The book of Hosea really interested me because it illustrates the forgiveness process. I read into the prophetic books very different sorts of things to what the average priest or synagogue leader would actually read into them; I started to see everything as a love-based thing. [01:02:24.00]

Jesus: By the time I was fourteen or fifteen I realised that the messiah was coming, I had a very strong feeling that the messiah was coming. The prophetic books of Daniel pointed to the time period I was living in as the time period of the messiah. I then started looking for the messiah. I didn't assume it was me; I started looking for the messiah in others. Any religious leader who would pop up, who seemed to gather a following, I would investigate their teachings and so forth, and see whether they knew about love, which was what I felt was the mark of the messiah. Sooner or later it became very clear that they didn't know about love and I would give up the search for that particular person and wait until another person came along. I continued doing that until I was around nineteen years of age.

Interviewer: And then you went, "Oh-oh."

Jesus: Yeah. When I was about nineteen years of age, I started having very emotional experiences about the potentiality of myself being the messiah. By the time I was about twenty one, that had solidified quite strongly in my heart because nobody else seemed to know about love; I seemed to understand love and nobody else seemed to understand it, along with a lot of other things that I seemed to have understood that nobody else understood, including spirits and the spirit world, the condition of the Earth, and the moral condition, the emotional condition of humanity, truth, the pinpoints of truth in terms of your day-to-day interactions, all of these principles that I was very firm on by now. They were all pretty solid in me by that stage. I started having to contemplate that I was potentially the messiah, which still when I think about it makes me feel quite emotional because it was a very emotional experience. It's still quite an emotional experience, when I think about that.

Jesus: During this time, a lot of events occurred. When I was fifteen for example, my father would say to other people in Nazareth, "You know, my son is the messiah." By this stage he didn't really know whether it was true or not, he was quite confused because he could see that I wasn't...

Interviewer: Living up to his expectations?

Jesus: Definitely not living up to his expectations at all. He was quite confused and he was quite upset that I wasn't living up to his expectations, but he would still tell everybody the same thing. Now of course quite a lot of other people would get quite angry and upset about all that, and they'd laugh at him, and laugh at me because I was so gentle and so much of a pacifist, and I didn't know how to fight. Anytime I got in a fight, I'd always just let myself be beaten up. When I was fifteen, a group of teenagers in our town stripped me naked and beat me up fairly badly, and my father was enraged after that. He was really, really upset with my pacifist nature after that. [01:05:40.00]

5. Jesus' adulthood prior to becoming at-one with God

Jesus: By this stage, in my early twenties, I was quite tall. I grew to be around six feet tall, and I was quite good with my hands, because I was a part of dad's business from the age of twelve onwards. So I became a "carpenter" as the legend says.

Interviewer: Well it presumes, doesn't it, it doesn't really say?

Jesus: No, it doesn't really say. My father wanted me to actually run the business; that was his underlying desire for me.

Interviewer: Being the eldest son.

Jesus: Being the eldest son. And that wasn't my desire, which caused additional friction between my father and me.

5.1. Being assaulted

Jesus: Then a local girl who had four brothers and a father showed some interest in me. I knew she wasn't my soulmate so I repelled it. My father was quite upset because he felt it was a good family and so forth. And the girl herself became quite upset as well.

Interviewer: What was her name?

Jesus: I can't remember her name now actually. I think it's Isabella, but I can't exactly remember her name now. She told her father that I had slept with her and that I had then rejected her after sleeping with her. Now back then of course if you had slept with someone you were definitely going to marry them, and if you rejected them then you basically had the entire family on your back. And the entire family grabbed me and almost tortured me to death. They broke my back, broke both my legs, allowed their dogs to eat up a part of my face, they pinned me to the ground and burnt me, and that was when I was twenty one.

Interviewer: Did you have scarring from that?

Jesus: Yes, terrible scarring. For three months, I couldn't walk at all, and I just lay in bed. The only thing that saved me was that she heard that they had decided to do this to me. They did it in the town square, basically to make an example of me to any other young male who may consider doing the same to their daughter. But she heard about it and she told them the truth, and that was the only thing that got them to stop. Otherwise, I probably would have died. I couldn't walk, I had a broken pelvis, broken legs, they broke both my arms as well, pinned to the ground with a spear. This is the way they used to do it: they used to put a spear through you and then burn the edges of it, so that it wouldn't bleed and so you would stay alive for a long time, and then they could torture you for longer. That was their goal. [01:09:18.00]

Interviewer: How old were you then?

Jesus: I was twenty-one. After that the girl saw what they had done and obviously I was not the beautiful looking man that she had loved before then. She actually hung herself in my room as well. That happened shortly afterwards. Once I could walk, my father and the family were still pretty upset with me because I hadn't married their daughter and now their daughter had committed suicide.

5.2. Leaving home at the age of twenty-one

Jesus: By this stage my father was quite upset with me about a lot of issues. He thought that I deserved what had happened to me, so I realised that I had to leave home. I left home and lived in a cave for four years. The leader of the synagogue in Nazareth loved me and he would bring me food. My mother would see me occasionally but my father would not see me at all, and I was a sort of recluse. During that time I prayed a lot and received a lot of Love, and my body healed very rapidly as a result and after nearly five years my body had gotten back to exactly the same as before. Otherwise I may have been a cripple all of my life.

5.3. Investigating other truths and religions

Interviewer: What is this sect called the Essenes?

Jesus: Well, I'd heard of them; they were another one of the people I had heard about and investigated in the first century, but I could see that they had a lot of unloving teachings as well, so I could see that the messiah couldn't come from the Essenes.

Interviewer: You weren't influenced by any of them?

Jesus: It's funny; you could say that I was influenced by everything or nothing. Everything in the sense that I used to investigate everything, and nothing in the sense that only if it was in harmony with love or truth would I accept it. That's how I would investigate everything.

Interviewer: They were on Mount Carmel, was that correct?

Jesus: They had a lot of different places around; eventually they went to Mount Carmel but they had many other places around. It was only when they started to get oppressed that they sort of gathered together in communities. They were like any other sect, or what you would call a sect today, in that if the sect is oppressed, generally they end up gathering together in a community, therefore having closer association with each other, but generally if they are not oppressed they'll be throughout society. They had a lot of interesting belief systems. John the Baptist was also quite interested in them at times, but they had some unloving teachings as well that I could not agree with. [01:12:22.00]

Interviewer: Now you would have started to have problems with your own religion in your twenties.

Jesus: Much earlier than that.

5.3.1. The sacrifice of animals

Jesus: I remember when I first went to Jerusalem, I was in my thirteenth year, and it disgusted me basically. I became a vegetarian that year because there was blood just running down the street from the sacrifices. The sacrifices were primarily to feed the priesthood, most of whom were quite fat because they were living in the lap of luxury from meat-based dishes, whereas many of the people they were serving, while they might not have starved, some of them were close to starving. There was a spiritual drain on the people; the priesthood were living in luxury, while the people they were meant to have been serving were living in poverty and more was being demanded of them every time. They set up the temple tax and a number of other taxes which were specifically for the Sanhedrin, or members of the Sanhedrin. Generally it was the Sadducees at the time; my father was also quite distressed with them. [01:13:41.00]

Interviewer: They had these animals that they would sort of sell as sacrificial animals?

Jesus: Yeah. They would breed up animals, which were often just the same as any other animal. There was no specific, fantastic feature about the animal.

Interviewer: It didn't have to be a goat?

Jesus: No, there were goats and sheep and so forth. But they would breed up these animals from any flock, and then they would sell them for ten times the price of a normal animal, because it was one that you had to sacrifice in the temple.

Interviewer: They actually sacrificed them in the temple?

Jesus: Yeah, and then the person that ate them was not the person who bought the animal, it was the priest.

Interviewer: What was that supposed to do for them?

Jesus: It was meant to save them from their sins. It was the same principle attributed eventually to myself, through what people believed to have been Paul's thoughts, which Paul didn't have.

5.4. Jesus' adult years between twenty-two and thirty-one

Interviewer: So now we come to about thirty-one?

Jesus: Well, there's a fair bit in between; there is another nine year gap.

Interviewer: Tell us about that.

Jesus: (Laughs) Well, in the first five years I spent a lot of that time alone, praying, getting to know God better, getting to know God's Truths, experimenting with God's Truths, noticing my body changing as I received more Love, noticing my scars healing. I began to understand during that time that actually Love would heal; I realised that once you receive God's Love to the point of at-onement you could actually physically heal people if they were open to that healing. I learned a lot about the Laws of Free Will, Desire...

Interviewer: Could you do that in your twenties?

Jesus: No, not to other people, but my own body changing caused me to see that it was possible.

5.4.1. Moving to Capernaum at the age of twenty-six

Jesus: When I was around twenty-six or so, I decided to move to Capernaum, which was on the Sea of Galilee, and I had what you would call a one room flat there. I used to work with the fishermen, mending their nets. I hated fishing but I mended their nets.

Interviewer: Did you eat fish? You said you were vegetarian.

Jesus: No, I was vegetarian.

Interviewer: You didn't eat fish?

Jesus: No.

Interviewer: Okay, even though you were helping them fish?

Jesus: Well, it gave me an opportunity to talk to them, which I loved doing. It gave me an opportunity to talk about all these different things that I've discovered in my early twenties while I was living alone, all these truths of God that I felt a strong desire to share with others. That's how I met ones like John, James, Peter; they were all fishermen, either they or their fathers had boats and they would fish on the sea, so I met them and eventually had a friendship with them.

Jesus: They would often laugh at me and say it was funny what I was teaching and so forth, but they would often be fascinated too, just like most people are when you talk about soul-based things. It was great for me because it gave me a lot of opportunity to live by myself and enjoy my life. I didn't have very high needs so I ended up with a little savings, which then enabled me to travel when I wanted to, but Capernaum was my base until I was in my thirties. [01:17:15.00]

Interviewer: No major events in that time period?

Jesus: Well, I suppose it depends on what you call major. There were no major traumatic events that happened to me during that time. By this stage I developed another friendship at the local synagogue I attended there, so I spent a lot of time in the synagogue, again reading the books because that's the only places where the prophecies were available. I found that every time I read the prophecies, I had this tingling sensation coming through me; I could feel connected with God, I could feel God telling me things, and so I was very drawn to doing that as well. I only worked enough to provide for myself and spent the rest of the time doing those other things. It was a really important time for me though because it solidified all of the teachings that I had been learning when I was by myself. And it also really closely established my connection with God to the point where I became at-one with God.

6. Jesus' life after becoming at-one with God

Jesus: I became at-one with God in Capernaum.

Interviewer: At the age of?

Jesus: In my thirty-first year.

Interviewer: And you never had a relationship up until this stage?

Jesus: No.

Interviewer: Then you decided to start teaching.

Jesus: Yes. The first thing I did was: I went down to John because I had a plan. The plan was that if John went ahead of me talking about natural love, he could open up people's hearts to Divine Love by talking about natural love, and then I could come along afterwards and I could talk about the Divine Love, and people would understand it because they would already have been taught about natural love. By this stage John was living in a cave down in the south, on the river, and he would often have large numbers of people come; thousands would sometimes come and listen to him. He was quite a good orator and he was quite outspoken, so people loved it. If you can imagine a very outspoken, charismatic, radical, gentle person, all in one, that was pretty much John. He was a Nazarite as well, and he had decided to grow his hair long and not cut his beard. He wouldn't eat meat, he was basically a vegetarian as well, and he wouldn't drink.

Interviewer: You're saying Nazarite; what do you mean?

Jesus: Well, a Nazarite was a person who had a feeling to become closer to God, who would then sort of dedicate their life to God. They would live basically in poverty, not eating meat, because eating meat was a sign of prosperity. He didn't become a vegetarian because of any moral reason other than that eating meat would have been a sign of prosperity but he also found that when he didn't eat meat he was closer to the spirits who he was channelling. Quite often Elijah would come and speak through him, so that's why he was listened to frequently. Many people started to feel that he was Elijah coming back again, because often we would be channelling those men.

Interviewer: Was that a belief in reincarnation at the time?

Jesus: No, but it was sort of like coming back. There wasn't really any firm awareness of how that might have occurred. I suppose you'd call it a flow-over from some of the Hindu and Buddhist teachings, which by that stage hadn't been firmly designed either. There was just this loose idea they used to have of when a person died and breathed out their air, that that was their last breath, but because people could feel the spirit of the person leave they believed it had to go somewhere and most of them believed that it entered another child just being born. That's what some of them believed, not the Jews themselves, but some others believed in what you would now call reincarnation. Reincarnation as it is taught now has been a very slowly developing idea over thousands of years.

Interviewer: When you reached at-onement with God, this is when you got baptised by John?

Jesus: Well, actually I reached at-onement with God when I was in Capernaum, but I decided to travel down to John and to actually be baptised in the Jordan.

Interviewer: What was the signal that you got suggesting, "I am here now, I've reached this level"? What gave you that idea?

Jesus: Well, you know when you're at-one with God. You no longer have any unhappy thoughts or feelings inside of yourself, you can feel a permanent connection with God, you can feel God's Energy or Love coming through you, with everything that you do. It's a major transition, which you definitely know as a truth that has occurred. It is not something that is obscure; it is a very definite transition that occurs inside of the human soul. [01:23:16.00]

Interviewer: And you say that this also gave you knowledge as well?

Jesus: Additional knowledge to what I had already developed, yeah, certainly, because now you're at-one with God, all of God's knowledge on any subject can flow to you as long as you ask or have a desire to receive it. It depends on your will, but I started to receive lots and lots of knowledge about all sorts of things, and I could understand how everything worked.

6.1. Teaching God's Truths

Interviewer: When you first started teaching were your audiences small?

Jesus: Well, John and I got together after what you would call my baptism, and we decided that if he went ahead of me and talked about natural love and getting people to repent, to turn around from their sins, or to turn towards God, and then I went after him and I talked about the Laws of Divine Love, that would make it easier to actually teach the truth to others. Basically John's audiences often turned up at my gatherings, because of John's urging. He would say things like, "The one who's coming after me, he will tell you these things that I don't know," because there were a lot of things that I tried to explain to John that he did not understand, about love, about truth, and about free will and other principles. He didn't understand because he didn't receive the Love to understand them.

6.1.1. John the Baptist's capture and death

Jesus: That basically happened for the first six months of my ministry, until John was captured by Herod.

Interviewer: And that biblical account is correct?

Jesus: Pretty accurate, yeah.

Interviewer: It was Herod's wife who...?

Jesus: It was sort of the step-daughter who really did the dancing and his wife asked for his head. His wife was really angry with John.

Interviewer: Why?

Jesus: Because John was very outspoken and I talked to him about this many times. I said, "Why are you worried about this man and his personal relationship with this woman?" John was just really upset about it and used to get very outspoken about Herod's relationship with his wife, which was actually, under the terms of Judaism, an adulterous relationship. John would rave on about it. Herod couldn't care less, he had been accused of adultery many times previously, but Herod's wife got sick of it, and so Herod's wife really instigated John's capture. Even John's capture was interesting; Herod didn't have jurisdiction where John currently was because it was across the Jordan, and so Herod sent a group of his personal guard dressed up in plain clothes if you like, nabbed John from one side of Jordan, took him to the other side and then they got dressed and captured him and took him back, and then threw him in prison.

Interviewer: And you witnessed all of this?

Jesus: I didn't witness it, I was told of it by John's followers. I didn't witness it because we were at this stage talking in different locations.

Interviewer: Well that must have upset you a fair bit at the time?

Jesus: No, I thought it was predictable. I thought it was going to happen because of John's complete disregard for my advice to stop talking about it, and stop involving himself in Herod's life. John just couldn't let it go, and I thought sooner or later some pretty negative consequences would happen. We were also both aware of dark spirits around us who would instigate things against us and I often talked to John "Look, all you're doing is playing into their hands." As it turned out, that's what happened. I wasn't saddened by it; it was a fairly predictable event from my perspective. John was a little shocked about it, which I heard about after he passed, because when John passed he pretty much came and talked to me straight away and told me all the events. [01:27:44.00]

Interviewer: Okay now, was this before you started your teaching?

Jesus: No, this was six months into it.

Interviewer: Six months into it, so you had a bit of a following by this stage?

Jesus: A bit of a following. A lot of John's followers didn't gravitate to the Divine Truth because they had more of a natural love perspective. They had a lot of John's latent anger with authority; that's what attracted them to John, and that's why the Romans and the Jewish Sanhedrin were a little concerned with John - because they thought that he would eventually become a radical, not understanding that he was also a pacifist. They were often concerned that he might finish up leading some kind of revolt because of the number of people that surrounded us, and often when John spoke there were quite a number of members of the Roman army present to keep order just in case things got out of hand. They never did because John was not a violent man. So after a while I started attracting a different group of people than John did, but initially yes, a lot of them were John's followers who followed me, and then couldn't handle some of the teachings and so they went back to following John.

Interviewer: What was the main focus of your teaching in those early days?

Jesus: Divine Love, receiving Divine Love. Demonstrating to a person the process of how you can become born again. How Divine Love transforms the human soul from a man into an angel.

Interviewer: There is reference to you talking about Satan. Did you talk about Satan?

Jesus: No. I never believed in a Satan, not at all. I often talked about devils or demons, which we called them, which was the common term for spirits who would over-cloak people in disastrous and very negative ways. I did talk about devils and demons, but not one ruler of the demons, or ruler of the devils, because there is no such creature, no such person. [01:30:10.00]

6.2. Performing healings

Interviewer: When did you first start healing?

Jesus: As soon as I was at-one with God, pretty much.

Interviewer: Do you remember the first time?

Jesus: The very first time was Peter's mother actually.

Interviewer: Peter's mother? What was wrong with her?

Jesus: Peter's mother had what you would now call appendicitis. Her appendix was about to burst and back then that was a death sentence pretty much. I healed that overnight.

Interviewer: How did you do that?

Jesus: Just by laying my hands on her and praying for her, and telling her that she needed to be open and have some faith about it happening. By the morning she was completely cured, so Peter then became pretty outspoken.

Interviewer: Because he witnessed this?
Jesus: Yeah; it was actually his mother-in-law.

Interviewer: And so he thought that you had power now.

Jesus: Because he thought I had power, now I was worth listening to. And then of course there were some events that occurred with fish, which was Peter's primary interest; that's what he made his living from. I predicted where there'd be fish and sure enough there were fish there and so forth; it was a pretty easy thing to do. He then viewed this as some kind of marvellous, miraculous event, which then gave him a bit more faith that I might know what I was talking about with other things. John, James and Peter, witnessed all of those events. Peter told Andrew. They were all living in Capernaum or near Capernaum at the time, or in John and James's case their father lived across the Galilee, on the direct opposite side.

Interviewer: Who else did you heal, that is not in the Bible?

Jesus: Oh there were hundreds that are not in the Bible, thousands probably, not in the Bible.

Interviewer: Can you recollect another event?

Jesus: Well, all events had similar flavours, where they were basically a combination of different things that had occurred to the person. Generally it was either a spirit over-cloaking that had caused the person's body to degrade in a certain location, where the spirit was connected to the body, due to the emotion. And once I removed the spirit, I could heal the actual location and the person was cured instantly, basically. But then I would talk to them about their emotions and the attraction that had actually occurred, why they had the disease that they had gotten, or why had they gotten the spirit attraction that they had. [01:32:54.00]

6.3. Teaching God's Truths (continued)

6.3.1. Teaching about emotions and the Law of Attraction

Interviewer: Why is there not much in the Bible and in the gospels about you talking about this Law of Attraction, and how emotions can cause illness?

Jesus: Because most of the people didn't understand what I was talking about. There's a general process with most humans, and that is if you don't understand something, you don't relay it exactly as it was and then say, "I've got no idea what that means." Instead you try to make it into something you do understand or you don't say anything about it at all. That is a general human condition, unfortunately. So what finished up happening was that there were certain things they felt that they could understand or that were startling in nature, so-called resurrections from the dead and so forth. They would then put those particular things into the text. The actual original writings of Mark, Matthew and Luke did contain far more events of those kinds but further revisionists didn't understand them, they didn't get them, so they left them be, to the things that they did understand.

Jesus: Also back then writing was a difficult process, it wasn't easy like we have it today, where you can write thousands of pages within a few days with a help of a computer, or even if you had paper. Back then even putting together papyri was difficult. It was a difficult, long-winded process getting the utensils to write with, then carrying it around was difficult again. It was only the very rich that could afford such things, and most of the disciples and the apostles were very poor. They didn't have the means to do that, and so a lot of the things that were eventually related years later were limited in nature because of the limitation of financial matters of the people involved.

6.3.2. The requirements for receiving Divine Love

Interviewer: I am just going to mention a few things that are biblical terms that you still use today. We've already talked about that to enter the Kingdom of God, you must be born again. "The truth shall set you free," I've heard you mention that in a lot of seminars.

Jesus: Yeah, the truth is an essential factor in receiving Love. As I've described in a very recent talk that I gave a month or so ago, called "Relationship with God - The Way," there are basically three essential factors when it comes to receiving Divine Love. The first one is humility. Humility is openness to receiving truth. When I am humble, I have passionate desire to receive truth, I have a passionate desire to experience truth as well, to actually physically, emotionally experience it, as well as receive it. [00:01:06.00]

Interviewer: As far as religion goes, a prerequisite for that would have to be that you have no preconceived ideas of what you believe is true?

Jesus: Correct.

Interviewer: Which I see as the stumbling block for a lot of churches because they believe that the Bible is the Word of God, and they then have this preconceived idea of what is true. Anything that contradicts it, which you yourself do and did in the first century as well with the books at that time, they cannot accept any of that as being true because of that preconception.

Jesus: Yes. Many Christians have become like the Pharisees in the first century in the sense that the Pharisees became very dogmatic, particularly when it came to the first five books of the Bible, and in particular what they called the law. They then made sure that all people who practised the Jewish faith properly at the time practised the law as found in those books. As a result of that they were very, very closed to any new concept or new idea, particularly new ideas surrounding love because the law would always be more important to them, have a higher priority than love did. As a result of that, they became very resistive to any additional or further truth being presented to them. Now, as most teachers do, I try to join up things so that you can see the principle involved in the law, and then expose it even further, by expounding it further and seeing the principle in a wider community or in a wider area. But that didn't go down very well because they felt that was a dilution of the law, just like a Christian today feels like what I would be teaching would be a dilution of the Bible, God's Word.

Jesus: The very first requirement for connecting to God is humility. Humility is the complete desire and openness to receive truth, no matter what it is and whether you disagree with it or not. To have a passionate desire in that regard is humility. That's point number one, and I talked about humility quite frequently in the first century. The second point that I would say is: "The reason why you're humble is so that you can receive truth." It's the truth that creates freedom. When you know the truth about any subject, you are free to utilise its laws. For example, a scientist discovering the truth about uranium and how it can be utilised can now produce nuclear fusion or nuclear fission. Some use it badly, some use it well, but the scientist can discover the law involved or the laws involved and then utilise the law to the benefit of mankind or otherwise, depending on how they use this law. The truth always results in this absolute freedom to discover and utilise things in any manner you wish and so the truth does set you free, literally as well as spiritually. The truth sets you so free, that you are now completely open to absorbing love. You can think of it as - humility is the doorway to truth and truth is the doorway to love. Without going through those stages, it's impossible to receive Divine Love. [00:04:44.00]

Interviewer: Even the truth about ourselves.

Jesus: Even the truth about yourselves.

Interviewer: Which is one of the hardest things.

Jesus: Yes. It is the thing that most people find the most difficult, because the truth about ourselves has an emotional impact upon us whereas the external truth, although it does have an emotional impact, usually has less of an emotional impact upon us than the truth about ourselves. It's the truth about ourselves or themselves that most people cannot cope with and they are therefore unable to receive God's Love beyond a certain point. They absorb the truth about the universe because they are so enthusiastic about that and they feel quite fascinated about that. They absorb all of that truth, which opens them to a certain amount of God's Love. But then they refuse to absorb the truth about themselves, where they are being unloving, where they are being unkind, where they are being untruthful, where they are out of harmony with love in their day-to-day life, and that then causes them to stagnate in their relationship with God.

Jesus: So without humility we will not have the doorway into truth; without truth, we don't have the doorway open to receive God's Love. And those are the three things that I taught primarily in the first century everywhere I went. They are still the same teachings now as they have ever been; the truth doesn't change and what I'm teaching now is almost identical in nature to what I taught then. [00:06:10.00]

6.3.3. Teaching about God's Laws

Interviewer: You mention a lot about God's Laws now. Did you talk about that as much in the first century?

Jesus: Yes, I did.

Interviewer: There's not much biblical evidence of that, is there?

Jesus: I wouldn't agree. If you look at almost every parable, every parable had one of God's Laws involved in it. If you look at the parable of the rich man and Lazarus, for example, there was a law that when you die you are substantially unchanged. There is a law that involves that, which is the Law of the Transformation of the Soul, the Law of Love. There was also a law regarding the spirit world involved in that: the people who are in the heavens can see the people who are in the hells, and there's a spiritual Law of Rapport between locations in the spirit world. That illustration also pointed out that there were different locations in the spirit world, locations that are dependent upon the condition of the person and how they treated other people while they were alive. There are a lot of laws mentioned in that one parable. The way I used to mention them was in a way that I didn't tag them so much with what you would call a label nowadays. I mentioned the law in a practical situation or environment, which I often do nowadays as well, but in addition to that I also give them a name, which I didn't do as much in the first century.

6.3.4. Forgiveness of sin

Interviewer: Okay. The forgiveness of sin, how did you explain that in the first century?

Jesus: Exactly the same way as I explain it now, and that is that God always forgives our sin, but we have to go through a process before the forgiveness of sin transforms us. We also need to learn how to forgive others, because if you can't forgive, you will always eventually embrace the law of "eye for an eye, tooth for a tooth," and that law has detrimental and devastating effects on humanity. Back in the first century I taught both principles: the principle of forgiveness, not only forgiveness of yourself but also forgiveness of your brother or sister, and also the principle of repentance, which was this principle that if you actually emotionally felt what you have done to another, then God's Love could transform you through this process. It was the feeling of being forgiven by God that you went through as a part of that process. I discussed those things with people in the first century at length.

6.3.5. The sins of the father are visited on the children

Interviewer: The sins of the father are visited on the children?

Jesus: Yes, I definitely talked about that. If you think about it, I am now trying to explain how that occurs. It is the sinful or the unloving emotions that are retained within the parent that have an impression upon the life of the child to such an extent that the child absorbs them and it becomes a part of their soul, which causes the degradation of their own body. In other words, it causes all disease and all sickness. I taught these principles in the first century and I am teaching them now as well. [00:09:37.00]

Jesus: The terminology I am using is a little different now because the background of the people that I am speaking to now is a little different. Many of them have some kind of spiritual awareness or understanding, many of them have some kind of Christian, or New Age, or Buddhist, or Hindu or some other kind of background with which I can compare things. In the first century, because I had a more limited scope of teaching, I could only compare it with the teachings of Moses, which was the basis for the Pharisees' belief systems and the belief systems of most of the Jews who I was speaking to, and some of the Samaritans' belief systems were also based on that. That's why I focused on the comparisons with that particular religious system.

Jesus: Nowadays I've got a larger scope to work with, in that there is a comparison of different religious systems that I can work with, and I can incorporate many of those understandings in order to help people understand the truth about a particular thing that I'm teaching and help them come from where they are, from their perspective, into accepting that truth, as much as I'm able.

Jesus: A lot of times the key with teaching is helping a person go through this humility barrier, which is the barrier to receiving new truth. The way that you can do that is by connecting to them on the truths that are in their current way of life, or their current religious circumstances or their day-to-day experience, and then drawing them into seeing how it's different to what they thought, through a process of showing them how it's different. It's a similar process I used in the first century, but the scope was different because I had a more limited audience. [00:11:21.00]

6.4. Confronting people's belief systems and the societal systems

Interviewer: Your teaching of the truth obviously put a lot of people's noses out of joint. You've related the story of the clearing of the temple, but a little bit differently to the biblical story in that you were not the aggressor. I've played Jesus in a play, in a musical, and I did the upturning of the tables. I had longer hair and looked a bit more like you.

Jesus: (Laughs).

Interviewer: And I portrayed a very angry man, but you weren't like that at all.

Jesus: No. Well, there was no need to be angry. Anger generally comes from an emotion where you're afraid, and I wasn't afraid. And I didn't actually upturn the tables either. As I have explained about the issue, all I did was yell out at the top of my voice about how wrong the entire temple system was, in terms of how they were fleecing people. All I did was point that out. And as people do have a habit of doing, once the truth is pointed out to them, they feel quite strongly and quite emotional about it, and many of them got quite angry as a result. As a result there was a bit of a riot in the temple, where everybody was upset with the money changers and how much money they were making, and how they were being ripped off, and so forth. It was something that everybody felt and all I did was say it.

Interviewer: This made you a bit of a target for the Sanhedrin.

Jesus: Not really. This was a minor event for them in comparison with other things. I spoke the truth about everything, which meant the truth about the Pharisees' emotional condition, their soul condition, their condition in love. When somebody would come up and ask me about a certain Pharisee, if I knew them then I could talk about their condition. There were only seventy-something Pharisees on the Sanhedrin, so sooner or later you were going to finish up talking about most of them and their condition. Of course those things would be relayed to others, and that would be relayed to others, and the Pharisees and the people on the Sanhedrin, both the Sadducees and the Pharisees, started to view that as a subversion of them, of their position.

Jesus: On top of that I would talk about the unfairness of how the temple was run. The inability of sacrifice to actually relieve a person from their sins, for example, was another thing that I would speak of. All of these things were basic tenets of their religious faith, and then they also felt that I was undermining their faith as well. So you had a whole heap of men, all of whom were quite addicted to power and control, now having their control and power undermined by one man's actions. In addition, you had the whole system of things, which often put a lot of money into their purse; in the case of the Sadducees, many of them received up to two to three tons of silver every single year as a result of the taxes that they levied upon the people. Nowadays you'd be talking about billions of dollars' worth of funds going into these people's pockets, which was now being threatened. [00:14:47.00]

Jesus: Their own personal condition was being undermined in the sense that I was now exposing that they were like whitewashed graves; on the outside all appearing good but with quite malicious intent on the inside. On top of that I was speaking about the truths of something that they couldn't really understand, the truths of love, this whole principle of love. They started to see that if love was practised by everybody they might not even have a religious faith to defend in the end. There were quite a lot of problems, as you can see, and quite a lot of discussions that the Pharisees had, to which my father was privy because he was a member of the Sanhedrin, that eventually I found out about. Of course my father wouldn't tell me everything that was said, he would just give me an indication, "Yeah they are not very happy with you and this is the reason why, and you shouldn't do that anyway." That was his opinion too. Up to this point he was in quite a lot of disagreement with me about many of these issues, because he felt I was undermining his faith.

6.5. Performing miracles

Interviewer: Josephus is the historian, I think the only historian outside the Bible, that mentions your existence as a miracle worker and a healer, and a teacher of a great renown, and that you were revered after your death. Aside from healing, were there any miracles?

Jesus: Well, it depends on what you classify as a miracle I suppose.

Interviewer: Anything supernatural-like, I guess.

Jesus: Levitating things? All those kind of things?

Interviewer: Yes.

Jesus: Well the reality is that while I was aware that such things could be done, I didn't see much point to them from the perspective of teaching people how to become more loving. In fact I viewed them, and I also viewed many of the miracles this way, almost as a distraction from teaching people how to become more loving because most of the time they would finish up focusing on the miracle and not on the love that created the miracle. So then you'd have a clamour of people wanting to be healed from all of their different ailments, not understanding how the healing had occurred. Therefore when I didn't heal those particular ones, they'd be very angry and upset with me; I couldn't heal those ones because of their demand, their anger and their rage. They weren't in a space where I could heal them. It's only a person who is in a humble, truth-desirous place that you can actually heal, a person who has faith.

Jesus: Eventually, with a lot of the so-called miracles that I did, they'd be blown out of all proportion in terms of turning me into some kind of godlike cult figure. On top of that they distorted my message, which was a message of love and if you come to love then you can do these things for yourself and others. Unfortunately, eventually many people would come to me demanding a miracle, which of course could not then be given. Often that would then also distort the message because they felt that I was being selective with how I was using my powers and so forth. So there was a lot of confusion about the truth. I took every opportunity I could to explain how it works, just like I do nowadays, and I often explain at length, but unfortunately when people are emotionally in turmoil they don't really want to hear the explanation, they just want the healing or they just want the miracle.

Jesus: This is a problem when you're teaching the Divine Truth; you're not going to give people a miracle just for the sake of a miracle. I often felt and still feel that while miracles are going to occur and will occur in the process of becoming at-one with God and afterwards, if they become the focus of attention then I see a problem with that because now we are not in a space of love but in a space of demand. [00:19:09.00]

6.6. Meeting Mary Magdalene

Interviewer: I've heard you describe your death at some length; we probably don't have time to go into all of that.

Jesus: You haven't got to my meeting Mary yet or anything?

Interviewer: Oh yes, I had that down actually. Yes, when was the first time you met Mary? Can you recall the first day you met Mary and where that was?

Jesus: Yeah, she was in Magdala, the city or town in which she lived. By this stage she had a very chequered history. When she was young, she was abused by her father; she eventually became pregnant and her father then sold her as a prostitute. She gave birth to a child which she lost through a process that she can describe. She then had a long series of sexually very traumatic events that occurred to her that eventually caused her to become a prostitute herself. She became quite a widely renowned one as well, because she became quite angry in her prostitution, which meant that she finished up being quite overt sexually and people were just fascinated by her sexually. Then she went through a period where she just found an older man to whom she became a mistress. He loved her in the sense that he lavished everything that he had on her, and she then didn't have to be with any other men. And in fact, she wasn't even with him; he sort of had this goddess view of her.

Jesus: By the time she met me she was actually in business, probably what you would call in fashion nowadays. She used to work with textiles and materials, and make clothing. She had a quite a number of women working for her who were all from a similar background to her, who she had rescued from a similar background. By the time I met her, she had heard about me through the different healings that had occurred in other towns that I had visited. Usually by this stage, when I came into a town people had heard about me before I arrived and so they'd come and see, and she came with a group of women to see me. By this stage she was pretty much her own woman; the man she was living with didn't really care what she did as long as he could idolise her on all occasions. [00:21:56.00]

Interviewer: He was a fair bit older you said?

Jesus: Yeah, much older and he died shortly after I met her actually. But he willed everything to her, so she was also quite wealthy after he passed as a result. I met her just walking into the town. She was there with a group of women and I instantly recognised her as my soulmate. Then it was a process that we went through after that.

Interviewer: She became one of the disciples?

Jesus: Well it wasn't quite that simple. There was a whole series of events surrounding Mary and her past history and so forth that affected what happened. Also her emotional condition affected what happened before I finished up marrying her and being with her.

Interviewer: So how long was it before you married her, after you met her?

Jesus: Well, we spent nearly three months together initially, not sexually, because I wouldn't engage with her sexually because she was trying to control me with her emotional injuries regarding sexuality. She was trying to use her sexuality to control me. I wouldn't engage with her and eventually she got very, very angry and upset with me and she had sex with a couple of the disciples so that I could see it, in a way to punish me. And then she felt so ashamed of her actions that I didn't see her for one year after that. She went home and dealt with a lot of her emotions about sexuality and my feelings for her, and things like that. I explained to her that I loved her during that time and so forth, but she was now always used to being able to manipulate a man sexually.

Jesus: On top of that, because she had a chequered history, and she was well known for having a history, many of the disciples who followed me left me after she became my wife; they refused to follow me after that. They had picked out some other women that they thought I should be with, who I knew weren't my soulmate, so I wasn't with them, but the disciples felt that I was very wrong making the decision to be with Mary. As a result they often tormented Mary when I wasn't around; many of the women and men treated her very badly, so badly in fact that after my death some of the men eventually raped her. Peter raped her after my death, two days after my death. [00:24:28.00]

Interviewer: Even though she was your wife and he was your so-called friend?

Jesus: Yep.

Interviewer: How did that play out later on?

Jesus: When you say later on?

Interviewer: When you spoke to him about this after he had passed?

Jesus: Well yeah, obviously Peter had a lot of quite dark emotions that he passed with. He spent some time in the hells after he passed until he was willing to face his own emotional condition, as everybody has to do when they pass if they don't do it before then. He had quite a dark condition to face; he had raped my soulmate, he had raped other women as well, quite a number of them, he was quite an angry man, he had a terrible viewpoint of women generally. So he actually passed.

6.7. The nature of Jesus' disciples and apostles

Interviewer: I wouldn't be hanging out with these guys. (Laughs) These men don't sound to be of suitable character to be in your company.

Jesus: I find it quite ironic actually what most Christians today would view as a suitable character for my company. In the Bible it does say the truth about who kept my company. And what does it say? It says that I was known to have consorted with the tax collectors and the sinners. The reality is that most of the people who were associated with me were well and truly sinners, in the sense that they had a lot of pretty dark emotions. Four of the so-called apostles, they weren't my apostles, but four of the ones listed in the Bible, were basically terrorists. There were lots of people who I was associated with in the first century that I was trying to teach about love. [00:26:19.00]

Interviewer: You didn't really have a closeness, as a friendship, like you would these days? I would choose a friend who is fairly similar in character and ethics and morals to myself. I probably wouldn't want to, you know...

Jesus: You'd judge them...

Interviewer: (Laughs)

Jesus: ...in other words.

Interviewer: No, I wouldn't judge, I just wouldn't choose to be around them, just from commonality.

Jesus: Well I choose to be around anybody who wants to hear the truth, while they want to hear it. If they no longer want to hear it, then I probably won't be around them. Now Peter often said he wanted to hear the truth, so I told him the truth. He often didn't want to hear it of course, but he said he wanted to and so he always got a dose of it.

Interviewer: Who was the smartest out of the disciples, who caught on the quickest?

Jesus: Intellectually the smartest or soul the smartest?

Interviewer: Soul.

Jesus: John, aside from Mary. Mary caught on the quickest - being my soulmate it was undoubted she was going to. But of the male disciples, John was the person who understood the Divine Truth the most by the time of my passing. He was the only one present at my death really, the only male present at my death. Andrew might have been present at my death, but at a distance. John was close by where I could see him and he was there with four of the girls, my soulmate included. Quite a number of the women understood Divine Truth far better, but the men struggled because of arrogance and other emotions. They all struggled. [00:28:00.00]

6.8. The Sermon on the Mount and other public teaching

Interviewer: The Sermon on the Mount, did that take place?

Jesus: I did actually state a lot of the things stated in the Bible recollection of the Sermon on the Mount, but not at one time or location so it's sort of like an amalgamation of a lot of the teachings of truth. [00:28:18.00]

Interviewer: Were there thousands of people?

Jesus: Well, there were often thousands of people listening to me, yes.

Interviewer: So you did have large crowds?

Jesus: Yeah, often, where it was possible and where the dynamics of the location allowed for that to occur. A lot of people had a real soul longing for truth; that's why people wanted to listen, because there was a soul longing for truth in them and they wanted to listen to it. They often followed me to a location and it was quite frequent in a town that I'd roll up to, a lot of the people from the town would eventually come and listen to the guy who healed such and such, or whatever. A lot of the times the healings became a bit of an initial impetus for them to listen and then of those people some of them became serious about the Divine Truth.

6.9. Raising people "from the dead"

Interviewer: You say it is impossible to raise someone from the dead, so Lazarus wasn't dead?

Jesus: Lazarus wasn't dead in the sense that is called clinically dead nowadays, where you can get people back from that location, by giving them a jumpstart. He was in a similar condition. He wasn't dead in the sense that the silver chord had been broken. The silver chord is the joining between the spirit body and the material body and if that breaks it's impossible to bring someone back from that location. Once that chord breaks the person is always going to be a spirit. Also I didn't have any feelings about death because I knew what death was; it was just a transition into another life. Because I spoke to spirits regularly about the life they led, I knew what kind of a life it was, I could see it, I could often see them living their life and therefore I could see what kind of life people would have when they passed. I didn't see death as an enemy, like people do today. People did in the first century as well; they viewed it as their enemy.

7. Jesus' death

Interviewer: Even your own death, I've heard you describe that you actually didn't suffer?

Jesus: No. Mary suffered far more than I suffered at my own death. There was some physical pain but you can detune from physical pain through the process of regulation from your soul. While you are in a state of love, you can actually completely detune from physical pain, you don't have to experience any physical pain at all so I didn't experience much physical pain at all in that process. My body was exhausted though; there was a state of exhaustion because of the amount of blood that I had lost but it wasn't a painful experience; it was just an exhausting experience. Mary, on the other hand, because of her condition, being in more fear than I was, and being my soulmate, she could feel my feelings and as those feelings passed through her, she experienced more pain as a result. She actually experienced more pain at my death than I did. [00:31:41.00]

Interviewer: You weren't hung on a cross, it was a stake?

Jesus: Yeah, I was hung in the Jewish way, which was basically a vertical pole.

Interviewer: Is this how the Romans hung Jews, not how the Jews executed people?

Jesus: No, it's how the Jews hung Jews.

Interviewer: Did they?

Jesus: The reason the Romans decided to do it this way on this day was that Pilate wanted to illustrate that he had nothing to do with my death, that it wasn't his responsibility. Normally what a Roman would do would be to hang them on a cross, like they would normally do. You would die over a long period of days using that method of death. Usually it was quite a number of days; many survived up to three days, hanging like that before they died, whereas the Jews' way of hanging is very traumatic on the body, very intense but short in comparison. All of the weight is placed upon the mid-section of your body and it literally tears apart because of being hung vertically where you can't support your weight on the sides of your body at all. It's all just hanging from one point.

Interviewer: But you've said that you suffered more in the beating beforehand? The beating beforehand practically killed you?

Jesus: Yeah, the beating beforehand was pretty bad; it's very similar to what's depicted in the movie that Mel Gibson made "The Passion of Christ." The beating beforehand was pretty bad; they used whips with nails and hooks in them so the skin would be pulled apart in layers, quite often down to the bone. The reason I couldn't carry the stake myself was that I was too exhausted by that stage due to loss of blood to even carry it. Yeah, so that was certainly more intense. There was also the projection of emotion that was going on at the time; you've got quite a number of people around you laughing at you, deriding you while they're ripping your body to pieces as well.

7.1. Reasons for Jesus allowing his death to occur

Interviewer: Now, I've heard you say that you didn't have to; that you could have escaped the whole thing if you wanted to.

Jesus: Well I'd escaped a number of other times; there were quite a number of attempts on my life during the time that I was with Mary. I'd been stabbed a number of times; the Sanhedrin had sent some assassins to assassinate me a number of times. In each case the assassin, due to their own Law of Attraction, never got to a point where they could kill my body instantly and so I could heal it straight away. I actually healed my body a number of times from different assailants. The Jewish Sanhedrin then thought, "Well the only way we are going to make sure of this is to make it a sort of a state- and religion-sanctioned death, to really just make sure of the deed," and so they gave up sending assassins and actually John the Baptist, who by this stage had passed, came to tell me the night before I was picked up by the Romans and brought to the Sanhedrin. He told me that that was going to happen and I had an opportunity to leave if I wanted to. [00:35:38.00]

Interviewer: And you chose not to. Was this a further demonstration?

Jesus: Well, things were sort of reaching a bit of a crescendo in terms of the belief systems of all of the disciples. Most of the disciples were not following my teachings; they did not have much faith in what I was actually saying. They were listening to me, but a lot of it was out of fascination rather than conviction. In addition, there was the additional problem that the things that I was saying, while they sounded wonderful and while I could heal myself, nobody else could, so there was this tendency for them all to start treating me as if I was somehow unique, that they weren't capable of the same particular things that I was capable of. They had this tendency to dismiss their own progression, to dismiss the fact that they could actually do it themselves and get closer to God. Many of them had not relied on God at all up to that point. God was really an intellectual concept to which they really did not have an emotional connection, and the majority of them had not received any Divine Love at this point. Aside from Mary, John and some of the women, most of the men had not received Divine Love, so therefore had not changed very much.

Jesus: I was looking at all of these issues and looking at "How long is it going to take before somebody actually embraces the principles of truth?" The only consideration I had really was Mary; I wanted to spend time with Mary. That was the only reason why I healed myself on previous occasions, because I really wanted to spend more time with Mary. But I also got to the point where I could see that Mary too wouldn't deal with her emotions about certain matters, and so our relationship was sort of also coming to some point of stagnation as well, in the sense that she didn't want to work through some of her emotional issues either. It really got to the point now where I was left with the decision of what's the next thing I could do to help everybody go through a process that they need to go through but they didn't want to go through, or they were not choosing to go through. I could see that night, the reason why I prayed a lot that night with God was that I could see that my death could possibly accomplish more than my staying alive. Can you see why?

Interviewer: Oh yes.

Jesus: You see, when I died all of a sudden, everybody's real emotions became present, and the people who needed to cry cried, and the people who got angry got angry, and the people who had no faith got some faith. There was just this whole process that happened quite rapidly after my passing, in the fifty days after my passing, to such an extent that God's Love flowed into groups of people at a time, which never happened before I passed. Before I passed, God's Love would flow into individuals occasionally based on their passion and desire for truth and their humility, but generally, even collectively it wouldn't happen because there was just so much resistance to the truth and resistance to humility. Whereas after I passed, they were so gutted by my passing. The spirits who were present at the time still call it "the great loss." Even my friends in the spirit world still refer to it as "the time of the great loss," because for them it meant that God's Love was lost as well. There was this feeling that God's Love was completely lost to humanity as well. [00:39:59.00]

Interviewer: But it had the opposite effect.

Jesus: It had this opposite effect of them going into grief, and as a result of them going into grief God's Love could flow into them. Their openness to their emotions and their humility allowed God's Love to flow and so for those fifty days afterwards many of them received quite a lot of Divine Love as a result. As a result of that, things changed quite rapidly after then, more so than if I had not passed. If I had not passed, it would have been maintained or have been much the same as it was before.

Interviewer: So it did have the effect you thought it probably would.

Jesus: Yeah it did, it had the effect that I thought it would have. The down side of course was that Mary and I were separated; I didn't see the birth of my daughter and quite a number of other things.

7.2. Jesus' resurrection

Interviewer: Now your resurrection, where did they take your body after that?

Jesus: Well firstly they just left my body on the stake. By this time Andrew was near John and there were the girls; my mother, one of my aunts - John's mother, Mary and a couple of Mary's friends were all there. They saw me die and then they removed me from the stake. They had to do it before the Sabbath began so they all worked on my body; they took me down before that began and then they embalmed my body, which was the custom, basically just with oils and perfumes and so forth, and I watched all of that occur, and I watched Mary's grief. [00:41:56.00]

Interviewer: Now, you've said that you dematerialised your body and this is where I get a little bit lost. (Laughs) It's not something that I am over-familiar with.

Jesus: Well, when I was alive I realised that a person who was at-one with God, who understood God's Laws, could understand the laws governing matter. You could materialise and dematerialise things. In other words you can bring matter together to such an extent that it forms a solid shape, or you can disintegrate matter into its individual atomic structure, making it look like it's invisible now, in other words it would disappear.

Jesus: I realised those kinds of things when I was alive. I didn't see much point in teaching them, because I felt my primary purpose was teaching about love and this connection with God. But I realised that there were all these other things I could show in the future if it got to that point. That's why I said to the disciples, "There are many more other things that I would love to teach you but you are just not ready for them yet."

Jesus: What happened after I passed is that I realised that most of the disciples and also the Sanhedrin and others would come to see my body as did many previously, as sort of like a sacred relic. This was not something that I could see as very advantageous to the Divine Truth, but I also wanted to illustrate the transition that death brings, which is a transition into a spirit form, which can materialise a body whenever it wants. What I was trying to illustrate was the ability for a person in the spirit form to materialise a physical form any time they want to if they wish to use it. There were no limitations of death; in other words there was nothing you couldn't do when you're dead that you couldn't do when you're alive.

Jesus: I wanted to remove death as an enemy, and the human race still views death as the enemy. That's why if you threaten somebody with death they will do almost anything because they see death as the enemy. They don't actually see moral issues or any other issues as the enemy, but they see death as that. I wanted to illustrate that death wasn't an enemy. In fact, for many people death actually turns out to be a great friend because it relieves them of all sorts of problems in their earthly life and enhances their experiences, it enhances their life.

Jesus: What I decided to do, and it was a personal decision that I made, was to dematerialise the body so that none of the disciples could be attached to that body and also so that everyone would see the principles about death that I was trying to teach them while I was alive; that there was such a thing as life after death. The only way of doing that that I could see was to dematerialise the body so they could see that I am not using the same body but it's still me, and then materialise a number of different bodies and then appear to different ones of them. [00:45:09.00]

Interviewer: When you say you materialised a number of different bodies, is this why Mary didn't recognise you?

Jesus: Initially, yes. She physically couldn't recognise me because it wasn't the same body.

Interviewer: What sort of body was it?

Jesus: Well I just materialised another man, another body, like the one I have now, that's just a material body. I just materialised one that looked different, but my personality was still there obviously and Mary recognised that as soon as she began talking to me, as did most of the disciples whenever I started talking.

Interviewer: When you materialised a body for Thomas, you materialised a body with injuries because he was doubtful?

Jesus: Well in that case I materialised a body that looked very similar to my original body, but I actually materialised the body with the holes in my wrists and my feet because he was struggling. Thomas was my brother and he was struggling to understand that I could be resurrected or still living when he saw me die and saw my dead body. Most of the men didn't believe Mary; I appeared to Mary the most of course after I passed, but most of the men didn't believe her as was the custom back then; you didn't believe a woman at all. In fact if you wanted two witnesses to anything, the two witnesses couldn't be two women. They had to be men. Unfortunately most people didn't believe what Mary was saying, and so I needed to provide further evidence, which I did do on quite a lot of occasions. I appeared to almost five hundred people after my so-called resurrection, in that fifty-day period. [00:47:08.00]

8. Jesus' life in the spirit world

Interviewer: You then moved on to the spirit world. Was it what you were expecting?

Jesus: Yeah of course. (Laughs)

Interviewer: Who met you there?

Jesus: Well, a lot of the people who had been my guides met me at first. At that time I had around seventeen guides and I met most of them. Moses and Elijah and.... who else would you know? There are some who you don't know, but Michael, who you know as the Archangel Michael, and people like that were present.

Jesus: Then I decided that I wanted to visit the hells so I spent quite a lot of my time going through the hells, talking to them about...

Interviewer: So part of the Nicene Creed is right; you'd descended into the hells.

Jesus: Yeah, I did. I descended not in my condition, my condition still remained bright, but I decided to visit the hells for the sake of teaching people in the hells that God's Love was available to them and that they could choose a different way of progression if they decided to, that would speed up their life in becoming happy again. I spent quite a bit of time teaching in the hells in between spending time with my soulmate.

Jesus: Shortly afterwards, Sarah was born and I became Sarah's guide as well. I would guide Sarah and communicate with Sarah, as she was a child and as she was growing up. [00:48:53.00]

Interviewer: Where is Sarah now?

Jesus: Now, 20th century now?

Interviewer: Yes.

Jesus: She lives in Canada now. She is also reincarnated. Luke and Sarah are a soulmate couple and they have both returned to Earth.

Interviewer: They're in Canada?

Jesus: Yep.

Interviewer: What place in Canada?

Jesus: They're on the east coast of Canada.

Interviewer: Alright, now we're going on to the memories of the spirit world, unless there are any other memories that you want...

Jesus: Oh, there are heaps of memories I haven't mentioned. Obviously summarising two thousand years of life can't be done in a few hours. It's like trying to summarise the major events of your life. I've even missed out on quite a lot of them from my first century life yet alone from the spirit life. But let's give it a stab. (Laughs)

Interviewer: Well your spirit life goes for two thousand years, so we're not going to be able to...

Jesus: Summarise it very well.

Interviewer: No, so I guess highlights? (Laughs)

8.1. Mary's and Jesus' family passing into the spirit world

Jesus: Highlights? Well, obviously for me a highlight was Mary passing, in the sense that I could now be with her again. That was a really important thing for me and her, so that was a major personal event for me. There was a lot of what you would call impersonal events, or more of impersonal events, not that my life has ever been impersonal, but just things to do with my role more than my personal life. My role is the redemption of mankind. My personal life is I'm just Jesus, an average guy with a soulmate, who wants to love and be loved by my soulmate so I sort of see my role and my personal life as two separate things.

Jesus: Most people in the spirit world have a role that is to do with their passions and desires, but it's a sort of role that God assigned to them. That's different to their personal life, what they experience in their personal life, which is their life with their soulmate, the things that they enjoy doing together and so forth. I suppose you could separate my life into those two areas, into my personal life and then my role.

Jesus: Obviously with my role, I am pretty busy all the time, being the first person who was in a condition of at-onement with God. Obviously that has certain responsibilities attached to it that I accepted and desired to accept. Those responsibilities I maintain even now. My personal life is a separate issue to that, my personal life is my life with Mary, the things we personally enjoy doing and so forth, and it's the same after we passed. So the things that affected my personal life after we passed are firstly Mary's passing, that was a big event for me, a big event for her too, because she had missed me terribly and she didn't feel me as strongly as she could have because of some of her emotions about my death. When she came to the spirit world she was quite traumatised when she first arrived, because of her death, but that shortly changed into joy for her. We progressed together fairly rapidly after that, bearing in mind that we lived in different locations for a long period of time, but I could visit her any time I wanted and that was most of the time, so we spent a lot of time together. [00:53:00.00]

Jesus: Shortly afterwards, actually about a month later, all of my grandchildren passed and Luke passed as well. That was another sort of like milestone in a way, caring for the grandchildren when they passed, helping them understand the principles of the spirit world, which they didn't understand as well as Mary or I did. We sort of became their surrogate parents to a large degree after they'd passed. Then Sarah's passing, our daughter's passing, was another sort of personal milestone.

Jesus: By this stage a lot of the so-called disciples and apostles had passed. We met up with them in the spirit world and assisted each one of them to become at-one with God in the spirit world because none of them had done that on Earth. As this happened, I was always learning as well. I also kept progressing to another dimension and any time I had learnt anything new about another dimension, I'd set up some things to teach to the people in the previous dimension so that I could show them how to reach that location through their condition. That was basically a part of what I liked doing personally, besides my role.

8.2. Meeting famous people and others who had passed

Interviewer: I guess people on Earth would be interested in historical characters who have passed who you have met. You said you haven't talked to everybody, you don't know everybody; just because you're Jesus, it doesn't mean you know six billion people.

Jesus: Well, there's literally forty or fifty billion people that I am aware of in the spirit world at this point in time that come from this Earth. I don't know them all, obviously. A lot of them know me, either by sight or by reputation, but I don't know them.

Interviewer: Who has made the most dramatic transformation since passing?

Jesus: I would say, in the time of my life, probably Cornelius. He was in a very dark condition when he passed. Most people in that condition when they pass would remain in the hells for thousands of years, and he was in the hells for around fifty years. It's very unusual for someone in that amount of dark condition to actually...

Interviewer: And you said that this is because you have made this connection with him while you were....?

Jesus: Yeah it's partly because of that, but it's also partly because of his nature. He is a very humble person in his core nature and he also has a lot of very big desires as well so a combination of the humility and the desires caused him to make changes pretty rapidly. Of all the disciples, he would have passed in one of the most difficult conditions and yet changed the most rapidly. His soul pair was the third one to reach at-onement with each other. Given his condition on Earth that's a fairly amazing thing when you consider that there's twenty two dimensional existences to work your way through, with all these lessons in love that are involved in each one of them. Once you start doing it yourself, and once you pass into the spirit world and see what it means to do that, you'll see how great a transition that is, so he would have to be one of the people who I feel probably made some of the biggest transitions I've seen. There are others like Herod himself and also Nero, those two passed in very dark conditions and once they found the Divine Truth, Nero only relatively recently, but Herod found it quite early, they made their transitions. Their transitions were quite stark as well, because they were very, very dark characters, historically.

Interviewer: And famous people like Socrates and Plato, and Martin Luther, you've mentioned?

Jesus: Yeah, obviously I've met Socrates and Plato through their association with John. John was the person who assisted them with Divine Truth, but through my association with John, I've actually spoken to them and spent time with them. Luther had a fascination with me since he was on Earth, so it was highly unlikely that he would not meet me in the spirit world, unless he did not long for it, and he did very early in his passing. He passed into the hells but he progressed quite rapidly after that because of his desire for truth and his desire to learn about love. He's got a lovely nature and character, he's got a very investigative nature as well, and that always appeals to me as a character.

Interviewer: You've mentioned the Buddha, what's his name, Gautama or something...?

Jesus: I haven't spoken to him; I've attempted to.

Interviewer: You've said that you've tried to but you haven't been able to get close to him because he doesn't even see himself as an individual.

Jesus: No. He has this intellectual concept of himself, which is that he has become all in all. He doesn't see himself as an individual but rather as a collective, and he feeds off the energy of all the projections from people in the spirit world and on Earth. [00:59:45.00]

Interviewer: But he's still a sixth sphere spirit and that's as far as you can go on the Natural Love Path.

Jesus: That's correct, yeah. He will not be able to progress any further until he sees himself as an entity again and until he actually starts connecting with it emotionally, and I don't know when that will occur. I've had many attempts to connect with him since I've been on Earth again, but he ignores each one of those attempts, so there's not much that can be done under those circumstances to talk to him. There are others that I have spoken to who are renowned historically in different religions who have made transitions, or who have been associated with certain religious movements here on Earth, who have made transitions.

Interviewer: What about the Wesleys? John and Charles Wesley?

Jesus: Yeah, they are both in the Celestial realm; they made a transition pretty rapidly after they passed. Most people who were sort of reformationists on Earth in the Christian faith have made progress fairly rapidly because they had this investigative openness to new truth. Once they passed they realised that a lot of what they believed to be the truth wasn't truth and so they just re-engaged that investigative nature. The Wesleys both did that, they re-engaged that investigative nature and they accepted more truth, and then they realised that the truth that they believed on Earth wasn't true, and they went through this process of feeling some remorse about what they taught. But they were also very passionate about now teaching the truth in its true unadulterated form, and so they progress quite rapidly generally. Most of the reformationists have progressed and are now in the Celestial realms. Some US presidents are in the Celestial realms, for example. [01:01:46.00]

Interviewer: Which ones?

Jesus: Abraham Lincoln is one example.

Interviewer: You said that famous people find it difficult when they pass over.

Jesus: Many famous people do, particularly famous people who have been relying on the fame as an emotional crutch for their life, they find it very difficult. People who have been heavily engaged in sexual immorality on Earth find it very difficult to progress usually for a long time because they still engage in the behaviour in the spirit world and most of it is addictive and very damaging, and it also prevents them from ever finding their soulmates or anything like that. They can't ever become at-one with God while they engage in that behaviour either, so they often find it very, very difficult for a long time after they pass.

Jesus: Some of the spirits of old found it a bit difficult initially. When I say of old, the persons you know as Amon and Aman, or Adam and Eve. When they passed, they found it quite difficult initially. And it wasn't until my coming in the first century that they learned about Divine Love and started to long for that.

8.2.1. Spirits in the sixth sphere

Jesus: Some of the oldest spirits have become so engrossed in creating their sideways movement in the sixth dimension that they think they are progressing when they are actually not.

Jesus: It's sort of like you saying, "Oh I need a change in my life so I am going to move to Sydney." But really Sydney is very similar to Brisbane in a lot of ways and you end up with the same life but it just feels different because you are in a different location. Nothing's really changed, you haven't changed much, your family hasn't changed much, your environment hasn't changed much, nothing has really changed much. Spiritually and emotionally in particular, you haven't changed much but you just feel better because you are in a different location. Most sixth sphere spirits are like that, they move from one location to another location sideways, they feel better, they feel like they have progressed, like they have learnt something new or whatever, but actually nothing has really changed. Many times it's not until they receive Divine Love that they even realise that nothing had changed and nothing could change beyond that point. [01:04:22.00]

Interviewer: But when they are channelling, they often talk about God and Divine Love, don't they?

Jesus: Of course, because they use all the terminology. Spirits are adept at using terminology. Even spirits in the hells are adept in using terminology just to convince another person on Earth that they understand what you're talking about. I've had literally millions of conversations with spirits in the sixth dimension; I often go there to teach so I've had millions of conversations where there have been very large audiences of hundreds of thousands of people, even millions of people sometimes, that I've talked to about the principles of Divine Love and Divine Truth. But the unfortunate thing is that they think that I am talking about the same thing as they think, and because they think it's what they think, they are not open to actually realising that it's different to what they think.

Interviewer: So are they just lacking in what you call humility, they are just not open enough?

Jesus: Yes, lacking in humility and a desire for truth, God's Truth. But without the humility nothing can happen. Most spirits who are on the Natural Love Path in the spirit world lack humility, that's why they are on the Natural Love Path; they want to be self-reliant rather than God-reliant. They lack the humility to actually submit to their emotions and to submit to the emotional truth of what they are really experiencing. As a result of that, they are quite often very difficult to reason with.

Jesus: So eventually in the spirit world I spent most of my time in the hells or on Earth, trying to help people before they pass, trying to influence and help people that way. Many millions of people have been helped that way of course, and I'm not the only person that has been involved in that; I organised whole teams of people to be involved in these processes helping people. [01:06:21.00]

9. Reasons for returning to Earth

Interviewer: Okay, now we had better start to finish up. We'll get onto the last one, which is basically your current life and purpose. Anyone can go onto YouTube and check this out for themselves basically, they can watch how many hours of you on YouTube?

Jesus: There must be three or four hundred hours.

Interviewer: Three or four hundred hours of you teaching, so if they want to know about that, they can find out. But basically two thousand years has passed - why here, why now?

Jesus: Well there's a lot of reasons why here, why now.

9.1. Fulfilling God's desire for Her children to know Her

Jesus: Firstly, when you reach the condition of at-onement with God and then at-onement with your soulmate, you are in a condition where you can feel God's desires quite strongly as well, and when I say quite strongly, it's probably an understatement. You can feel God's desire to have all of Her children know Her, and you can feel God's desire to have all of Her children feel Her Love and the overwhelming feeling of that causes you to decide to assist in that process as much as you're able.

Jesus: When we were in that condition, before we returned to Earth, we decided that if there was a chance that we could ever come back to Earth we would take it, that we would come back to Earth for that purpose; for the purpose of doing those kinds of things.

9.2. Demonstrating becoming at-one with God from a position of sin

Jesus: There are also many more things that I wanted to demonstrate and illustrate. In the first century I have illustrated how a perfect person, a person who had been wiped clean of the sins of their parents could become at-one with God. I did that over a period of thirty one years; it took thirty-one years from the time of my birth to when I was thirty one, in my thirty first year, to become at-one with God. In that process I illustrated, not only to people here on Earth but to people in heaven too, or the people in the spirit world, that you could become at-one with God, that this is a prospect given to all humanity, not selectively, but it was dependent upon our individual will and desire that it occur. I also illustrated that a person could do it from a condition of being without sin in the first century.

Jesus: I also illustrated the truths that you would have to come to accept at some point if you wanted to become at-one with God. In other words, you would have to accept this process of being humble, understanding the importance of truth and longing for that love to enter you. I illustrated the power of forgiveness, of repentance, of love itself and the power that you receive by coming into that place of at-onement with God. I talked a lot about the terminology of what that meant, in terms of will, using your free will, and how desires and morality impacted upon the choices and decisions you made that would affect whether you'll become at-one with God or not. All of those things were illustrated then. [01:09:45.00]

Jesus: The problem is that over those two thousand years, those truths were established in the Kingdom of Heavens, what I called the Kingdom of Heavens; the first Celestial sphere onwards. These truths are firmly entrenched, because every single person who arrives in that condition understands them, and therefore those truths are firmly entrenched in the heavens. So the Kingdom of Heaven was established and that's why I said to Pilate, "The reason why I'm here hasn't got anything to do with the Earth, because my kingdom is in the heavens." The kingdom that I was establishing the first time I was here was in the heavens, not on Earth, but my intention in this life is to establish the Kingdom of God on Earth, to do what all the Christians are praying for, and that is to bring God's Kingdom to Earth. The way that happens is the same way that it was brought to the heavens, and that is by people becoming at-one with God while they are on Earth, not just one person, but thousands of people, even millions of people, or even potentially all of the human race becoming at-one, if they so choose.

9.3. The Divine expression of femininity

Jesus: There are individual purposes to my return, but there are also what I would call big picture reasons for the return. Those big picture reasons also revolve around illustrating a number of things that have never been illustrated before. Firstly, they illustrate how a person who is imperfect can become perfected on Earth. Not a person who has been cleared of their sin, but rather a person having sin and not having it cleared by any other means than going through this process that God has designed for them to go through, to become perfect. Secondly, a woman on Earth has never been in this condition, so one of the things I would love to demonstrate is to see a woman become at-one with God while on Earth, so that the Divine expression of femininity can be presented to Earth, because that's never been presented before. [01:11:54.00]

9.4. Changing society on Earth

Jesus: There's also a changing of all of the Earth's structures and all of the Earth's intentions to bring everything into harmony with love. To bring politics into harmony with love, religion into harmony with love, economics into harmony with love, environmental things into harmony with love, the way we live our lives into harmony with love. The best way to do that is to illustrate it live; rather than talk about it, to actually show it. That requires a lot of me personally; I've got to be in that condition myself to illustrate it and then help other people to get into the same condition so they can illustrate it. When you have a number of people in the condition illustrating this, now we have some momentum where people can see the truth being displayed right in front of their eyes. What I'd love to see is living examples all over the planet of what it means to live in harmony with Divine Truth and Divine Love, being at-one with God. If you can imagine that all over the planet you'd have living illustration, you wouldn't have to talk about it anymore. "You want to see what living at-one with God looks like? Go and see Jo Blow over there, he's at-one with God." And you'll have a look at his life and you'll see he doesn't even have to talk about it, you just have to look at his life and you'll see.

9.5. Rolling up of the hells

Jesus: There are also some other things that I would like to accomplish while I am here. One is that I would love to see all the people in the hells finish up leaving the hells. There are currently billions and billions of people still in the hells of the spirit world and while I am on Earth I have a great opportunity to talk to them, a far better opportunity in fact than when I am in the spirit world. [01:13:40.00]

Interviewer: Why is that?

Jesus: Well mostly because they have more rapport with people on the Earth than they do in the spirit world. They look down, rather than up. We often do that ourselves and that's what they do. They concentrate their effort onto the Earth and I am one of the people on Earth so I can actually engage this effort that they have, whether it would be negative or not, and actually help them through a transition. I can see that God's desire too is "to roll up the heavens like a book scroll," to quote from Isaiah. As you roll it up, the different dimensions of the hells all get rolled up and eventually there's no hell, nobody passes into a hell. Because everybody's condition has changed there's no need to pass into a hell. Then of course eventually nobody will pass into anything other than the sixth dimension or above, depending on the choices that they make.

Jesus: There are quite a lot of fairly large goals that I have. I am not going to be disappointed if they are not accomplished and I am very reliant on God, I know how important God is in the process of these things being accomplished. But these are personal desires that I have, that I'd love to see accomplished and that I know God wants accomplished.

9.6. Possible impedances to Jesus' goals

Interviewer: How can you see them not being accomplished?

Jesus: Well there's always the potential of my not dealing with certain emotions for example, which prevent me from becoming at-one with God, which would prevent quite a lot of these things being accomplished. There's my death, which a lot of spirits are clamouring for at this point in time, which would possibly prevent some of these things from being accomplished. There's the resistance of the people around me that can cause a lot of negative things to occur, as a result of their misunderstanding. It's a bit like in the first century; a lot of the Jewish Sanhedrin misunderstood my desires because my disciples misrepresented my desires to them. That happens quite frequently now where people I know misrepresent my desires to other people. Therefore they get misinterpreted and this has its own attraction. There are a number of things that are potentially able to occur. I don't feel strongly that they will, but it depends a lot on my staying humble, my staying loving of truth in the basic principles that I am teaching everyone that I've got to live. [01:16:31.00]

9.7. Jesus' current condition

Interviewer: How much work do you think that you've still got to go on yourself?

Jesus: On myself? Well, it's really not work on myself, it's allowing God to work on me. I sort of see it not as having to work on myself, but rather allowing God to work on me. God's Love will transform me; I've just got to allow the transformation. There's probably five or six primary emotions that I can see that I've really got to address soon for things to change. For things to change soon, I've to address them soon. And as I make those changes, it will be easy to see that they've been made, once they've been made - for me firstly, but also for anyone around me, because it is going to be easier for them to make the same transition after I've made it. Yes, so I've just got to continue working through my own issues of lack of humility, because if I were completely humble I would have already made the transition. I've got to work through what I am resisting, what resistance I have to truth in certain areas. Some of the areas I have resistance to truth in are issues around my own identity; I've still got resistance to truth there.

Interviewer: What do you mean, still some resistance about your own identity?

Jesus: Well I've got fear about fully accepting myself because if I fully accept myself, that will attract worldwide events. And at this stage I feel like I don't want to attract them, there is a fear in me that I don't want to attract them.

Interviewer: How would that attract worldwide events?

Jesus: Well, if I became at-one with God tomorrow then I could heal again. It would be well known very rapidly after that that I can. Then there will be more media, more other attention, more scrutiny and so forth. Before you know it, the fear I have, which I need to address, is that my life with Mary might be so impacted that we hardly get any time together. All sorts of things may occur, so a lot of my fears are around fully accepting myself, and allowing what happens to happen, rather than trying to manage what happens. At the moment there is still a tendency in me to try and keep everything low key because of my fear because while I keep everything low key, I get some space to myself and time to myself and so forth.

Interviewer: I can understand that.

Jesus: Whereas if I just allow things to happen naturally and I address this issue of fear, and I release the fear, then things will happen a lot more rapidly. At the moment I'm afraid of that and so I resist that, and I can see that I'm resisting it, and I need to do something about that. I've got some sadness about my relationship with Mary still, to work my way through about what's been happening in the spirit world over the past years, our separation after we reincarnated, how we've been apart for such a long time, and some hurt and some feelings about that, that feel quite strong within me that I don't want to feel very strongly at this point obviously. I've felt a lot about it already but there's still more to feel there.

Jesus: There's a great sense of loss about my relationship with God that I have currently that I'm not grieving properly. I get into the grief of it and then I skip out of it, then I get into it, I just sort of skirt around the edges of it. I don't really get into it properly, and so I don't get to fully release it.

Interviewer: You feel you have grief around a feeling of a lack of connection that you have once experienced?

Jesus: Yeah, I have a memory of the connection, an emotional memory and an intellectual memory of the connection, but I don't have that same connection now. It's like if you imagine you've been alive for two thousand years, and for the first two thousand years of your life you can never remember a time when you were without God. You never felt alone, you never felt unsafe, you never felt unwanted, you never felt uncared for, you never felt unloved, you never felt any of those feelings that entire time. Then imagine it's all taken away from you in one act. How would you feel? You'd feel pretty sad, like you've lost a lot of things. That's how I feel, and yet I am not fully grieving all of the losses and while I don't grieve them I can't get back what I lost. I've lost all those things and I've worked my way through many of them but there's still some of them that I need to emotionally work my way through so I don't feel them anymore.

Jesus: I have this sense, this feeling if you like, of having lost my memory. I know that in the future I will be able to write down a formula for levitation that scientists will be able to replicate and produce machines from, for example. But at the moment I can't remember it and then I feel really frustrated and upset that I can't remember it.

Interviewer: Because you used to know it?

Jesus: I used to know it but I can't remember it now. I used to know every language on the Earth, so any time somebody who has a different language talks to me, I feel really frustrated because I know I used to remember that language and now I don't. I can feel that the emotion is this emotion of loss that I need to work my way through. Once I remember it and feel that feeling, then I will remember the languages but I've got to go through the emotion to remember it. [01:22:53.00]

Jesus: There are also things about my own power and nature that I had then that I don't have now. In the spirit world, and with my potential on Earth in the first century too, I used to be able to create things out of nothing almost, it seemed like. The home that Mary and I just before we left the spirit world was around twenty-five cubic kilometres.

Interviewer: Your house?

Jesus: Yep, in terms of the size.

Interviewer: You've down sized. (Laughs)

Jesus: We've down sized a bit, right. (Laughs) And all the beauty of those surroundings we've lost, that's what it feels like. However the big things that I feel I've lost are the constant friendships with my spirit friends that I used to enjoy immensely, and the biggest thing that I feel I've lost is this feeling of loss of this connection with God, because it's not permanent again. There's an immense amount of grief associated with that. That's my biggest grief. I get into that emotion for an hour maybe in a course of a day, but it's not long enough, I'm not really in it properly. I need to go through those emotions still, and I feel that once I get through those then I will be much closer.

Interviewer: But you're not setting yourself any time limits on this?

Jesus: No, because there is no need to for a start, we are not in a competition with anybody or anything.

Interviewer: Not in a race?

Jesus: No, not in a race, no. God doesn't have any expectations of me that I do things in a certain time frame that God wants me to do and so forth. It's only people's expectations of me. At the moment people expect me to be perfect when I'm not. Even if I tell them I'm not, they still expect me to be perfect, and even if I tell them why I'm not, they still expect me to be perfect. So you know I've had to grieve the expectations, let go of the expectations that others have. Whenever I say I'm Jesus a person has in their own mind this automatic picture, often generated by the Bible or other things, which they then expect me to be. I have to work my way through some of that emotion still, how it hurts that they expect me to be something that I don't expect them to be and things like that. [01:25:42.00]

Jesus: I don't know how long it will take; in the first century from the time that I became self-aware that I was the messiah to the time that I became the messiah was a period of thirteen years or so. That was from a condition of having no sin, from a condition of having no terrible feelings about myself or anything like that so potentially it could take longer in this life than thirteen years. I feel I started my journey probably fifteen years ago, but my realisation about who I am happened about seven or eight years ago so if it takes thirteen years, then it's going to be another five years. It will possibly be a comparable time to what it took me in the first century. I don't feel any personal misgivings about that. I know other people do, but I don't. Other people want me to hurry up (laughs) and prove one way or the other whether what I am saying is true or not. (Laughs)

Interviewer: Yeah, I can understand that, because they want evidence. Everyone wants evidence and proof.

Jesus: Yeah, but see this is the problem with the Divine Love Path; if you actually embrace the path you will automatically have the evidence you need anyway. Waiting for another person to provide evidence is actually not the fastest way to get to God. The fast way to get to God is to wait for God to provide the evidence.

Interviewer: I guess it's their own doubt.

Jesus: Yes.

Interviewer: Is this captain of the ship mad or what? (Laughs)

Jesus: Exactly, and I can understand that to a degree, but I am not reliant on another person to tell me that it's right or wrong and I never have been. This is why I don't really understand why other people are so reliant on me. For me it sort of feels like, "No, no - you're totally capable of doing this yourself, if you know the basic principles, you're totally capable of becoming at-one with God before I am." You've got far fewer emotional injuries to work your way through than I have, even right at this moment. Maybe that's not strictly true, but there are certain groups of emotional injuries that you don't have to work through that I do and so you have got just as much possibility of becoming at-one with God as rapidly as I could from this point in time. Why would you wait for me to do it, when you could possibly do it before me? Not that it's a race or a competition, but one of us being there would be great. (Laughs) [01:28:23.00]

Interviewer: Are you a good runner?

Jesus: Am I a good runner?

Interviewer: Yes, I see you stretching and you look like a sprinter sometimes when you give your seminars.

Jesus: No, I don't know if I'm a good runner. (Laughs)

Interviewer: Because that's the one race I can beat you in.

Jesus: (Laughs) Probably. (Laughs) No I've never really been a good runner. You see for a lot of things if there are emotions in your body, they affect you markedly and I've had a lot of grief in my body and a lot of fear of grief and that caused me to have very small respiratory capacity so when I ran long distances I really struggled. Now I don't but I used to. The lower half of my body is undeveloped because of the emotions, the fear in particular, that I've stored there, which will repair itself once I'm at-one with God. But some of those fears are still present, which affect my development of the lower half of my body, so after I've dealt with those things I expect I'll grow two or three inches probably and be capable of running better than I currently am. (Laughs)

Interviewer: And you'll beat me at a race as well. (Laughs)

Jesus: But I don't have any feeling of, "It's all got to happen yesterday." I have a lot of patience with the process and trust in the process I suppose, whereas I feel a lot of people on the planet are used to getting everything yesterday. It's like I think of something and all I have to do is go and get it on the credit card and that kind of thing. If soul development were like that, it would not be very sincere; if soul development were like that, then I am sure quite a number of people would have already embraced it. But soul development is not like that, becoming at-one with God is not like that, that's why nobody on this planet has actually embraced it completely, aside from myself in the first century. The reason is that a lot of times people expect things to happen a lot faster than they have patience for and they often have very little patience for themselves in terms of their own development. For me, I just feel like I want to be patient with myself and understanding of myself. I don't want to dally around, but I need to understand every change that happens, I need to feel every change that happens. That means sincerity has to occur in the change. That's the way God designed the Way, the path. [01:31:00.00]

Interviewer: I've heard one of the fellows in your seminars inspired by you, he said, "AJ, you don't just talk the talk, you walk the walk."

Jesus: (Laughs) Yep.

Interviewer: So I guess that's what you would describe as the way and the truth, and the life?

Jesus: Yeah, and that's why I said to the people in the first century, "I am the way and the truth, and the life," because if you can copy what I do, you will become at-one with God. Of course, a lot of people in the first century thought it was quite arrogant to say that. A lot of Christians now don't think it was arrogant of me to say that two thousand years ago, but they think it's arrogant of me to say it today, but it hasn't changed and it's the same process. If I have a strong desire to connect to God, and the same applies to yourself, if you have a strong desire to connect to God and you embrace the Way, everyone else will see though your embracing of the Way, how The Way can affect their life. That's a basic principle of truth; that the first person embracing a course of life or a course of action is going to show the Way for the others who follow. "

10. Closing words

Interviewer: That's probably a good place to finish. The way, the truth, and the life.

Jesus: (Laughs)

Interviewer: Sums it all up doesn't it?

Jesus: Yeah. (Laughs)

Interviewer: Well, once again it's been a pleasure.

Jesus: Same goes, my friend.

Interviewer: Thanks very much, AJ.

10.1. The interviewer's experiences with Divine Truth

Jesus: How are you finding this whole process, Geoff?

Interviewer: Oh loving it. Is the camera off? (Laughs)

Jesus: (Laughs) We can leave it on, can't we? You don't mind explaining how you're finding it to people?

Interviewer: Yeah. What started off as a study of you has become a study of me.

Jesus: (Laughs) Awesome. That's exactly the underlying goal.

Interviewer: Yeah, I'll be totally honest; I came out here to study you psychologically, probably as someone else has done before. I thought, "I have an interest in religion, I have an interest in psychology, and here is someone who's melding the two together, who has a lot to say, who is clearly not a madman, as even Millikan said in his blog. He's met three Jesus's, the other two are mad, this guy is clearly not mad and he sincerely believes he is Jesus." What started off for me as a study of you, listening to you and observing your expounding of the truths that you call God's Truths have resonated in me, especially with a lot of things that I thought previously in my life, twenty, thirty years ago, where I detached from the church because I was like Jonathan Livingston Seagull, I was flying by myself and I didn't really find a home and so I left the church because it didn't resonate with me. [01:34:26.00]

Jesus: There were certain things that I tried to teach like you are trying to teach to the people in the church, but they just said that I needed to be prayed for, so I basically just left. However, since meeting you and Mary, and putting some of these truths which resonate as a truth into practice, it's turned into a study of me, which is good.

Jesus: Which is the underlying goal; it's about your personal relationship with God, your personal relationship with yourself, your personal relationship with other people, and bringing it all into harmony with love. This is what I find fascinating about the Divine Truth; you learn the externals and eventually you're forced into being introspective and looking at yourself in the process, and it's just wonderful.

Interviewer: My friends keep asking, "Is he really Jesus?" and I say, "I don't care anymore, it doesn't really matter."

Jesus: (Laughs)

Interviewer: I am not interested in going down that line any more. The experience that I've had is probably what I would have expected if I'd met Jesus.

Jesus: (Laughs)

Interviewer: There is a truth that I can see as a truth and there is a truth that I haven't seen before that I need to explore, and there is a personal confrontation.

Jesus: An internal war if you like, almost.

Interviewer: Yeah and that's what I would have expected.

Jesus: It's that internal war I feel that the majority of people are afraid of embracing. They're afraid of really embracing this process of personally growing into a new condition, into a new state. We like safety, and no change means safety to us most of the time. Actually I personally find that if you don't change then you are in an unsafe position because you can only ever be what you currently are. That's a sad thing for the majority of humankind, that's a very sad thing, to only be what you currently are when you have so much potential to become something completely different if you just embrace a process that God designed you to embrace in the first place. [01:36:59.00]

Interviewer: It brings a little bit more, because I think we all have a yearning for a purpose and to know that there's a purpose. Richard Dawkins says that he believes that the universe operates out of pitiless indifference; it's not really comforting is it? (Laughs)

Jesus: (Laughs)

Interviewer: I'd like to think that there's some sort of reason for my personal development, and I think we all do, we want to know that there's a reason and when we die it's not just all going to dissolve. [01:37:35.00]

Jesus: Of course every spirit knows that when you die it all doesn't dissolve. That's an instantaneous change that you make as soon as you pass, generally. You realise, "Oh my life hasn't dissolved and I'm still here and I've still got the same thoughts and I've still got the same memories. My body is a little different, I wonder why that is?" But you look much the same generally as well and so the majority of people after they pass instantly accept that one truth, which is that there is no death of the soul, if you like, or no death of what people are referring to nowadays as their consciousness. But the key is to take that further I feel, to actually enjoy your life, not to just be afraid of a transition or afraid of death or afraid of living life here or in the spirit world for that matter.

Interviewer: Also the humility angle of being open, not just to truth but to emotion, it seems like everybody's walking around crying in the process, but as you say leading to a fuller experience of life.

Jesus: Yes.

Interviewer: Like the girl in the seminar who had suffered sexual abuse at a young age, she was now, because of that experience and that emotional injury, incapable of having a relationship with a man so until she has dealt with that emotion, there is a whole life experience that is denied to her. I can see how you say that it's the same with our relationship with God; you do the same thing with these emotional injuries, because she then constructed a whole pile of preconceived ideas about men over that period of time with those injuries. This is why she couldn't connect with men, because men are only after this, they're only after that, and these are ideas that other women don't have. They are obviously false, but in her mind they're truths.

Jesus: Exactly. This is where I think the big failure of New Age religion is. You know how New Age religion has this focus on, "It's all truth. Your truth, my truth, it doesn't really matter." They have this idea, but the reality is that it does matter, because The Truth, God's Truth, will always free you, it sets you free. The other, so-called "truths" finish up binding your life into this place of fear that we finish up living most of our lives justifying but we never really experience our life fully, and I find that's quite sad. This is where I find that religious viewpoints and teachings, even New Age, which I feel is a religion, even science is a religion, all of these what I would classify as religious viewpoints or beliefs finish up defining our possibilities, when God designed our possibilities to be endless. I find that that's a sad fact about human life on Earth; because we limit ourselves so much through our emotional experience, we finish up shutting down all the potential possibilities that we have.

Interviewer: And that we have to give to others as well.

Jesus: Yeah. But yeah, it's an awesome journey. Every single person I find who really finds and discovers the path of God's Truth, and actually embraces it and realises it for what it is, is fascinated from that time on forever. There are spirits in the spirit world right now who are completely fascinated, who know far more than any person on Earth would even conceive of knowing, and yet they are totally fascinated with what they can still discover. Yeah, that's what I love about it the most. God has designed this eternally fascinating system.

Interviewer: We just have to be like children and discover it like children.

Jesus: And absorb it and be humble to the process. Yeah. That was good.

Interviewer: Thanks very much.

Jesus: Thanks for your time, Geoff.

