

### The Guru and the Disciple

Gnani Purush Dadashri

Shuddha Anami

Copyright 2010 by Shuddha Anami

Smashwords Edition

# Word from the Translator:

Please note that Gnani Purush Dadashri never wrote a word for any book. This book is a compilation of his spoken words in satsang, and Shuddha Anami is a translator within a collective, of the words spoken in Gujarati. Shuddha has been sharing the English translations of the words of Gnani Purush Dadashri on the Internet since 1994.

Gnani or Jnani is the One who has known, is in the experience of, the eternal Self. Purush means the Self. Akram Vignan means that which is attained without doing anything, and the science behind this. A gentleman by the name of Ambalal M. Patel became a Gnani Purush in June 1958. This happened spontaneously within him. The absolute light of the Self prevailed in him from that time. In that state of the absolute Self, he became the instrument for the salvation of the world. The words that came out through his medium have become words that are now liberating hundreds of thousands of human beings who were seeking meaningful solutions for their pains. These satsang sessions of the Gnani Purush happened in Gujarati and were carefully preserved and are presented as they are, in many different languages. They are all in the form of questions and answers from Gnani Purush Dadashri.

# Table of Contents

Word from the Translator:

Editorial

The Guru and the Disciple

'Guru' means guide

Who Needs a Guru?

When you are lost, a Guide is your friend

Automatic in reference to this life - swayambudh aye sapeksha.

How Long Do You Need a Guru For?

'Guru is not Necessary' is a false statement

Even the one who teaches you incorrectly is a guru!

A Guru is anything or anyone you learn from

Opposition to the importance of a guru is prejudice

You Need a Guru till the very end

Only the Nimit (the one instrumental) is the Most Obliging!

That Discussion is True But in Nischay!

Knowledge of what is Wrong is Necessary

Although only an instrument, Absolute Nevertheless

The Right Methods Are Found in the Gnani

Acceptance Through the Mind Is not enough

Who is Your Guru?

Respect for the Gurus of the Past

The Importance of a Living Guru

The Idol is Indirect Worship

Egoism Can Be Stopped Only Through the Living Guru

Your head instinctively bows upon seeing Him

The Guru That merges In the Eye of the Beholder

You have to understand the gurukilli (master key or special directives)!

The Difference Between a Guru and a Gnani

The Detached Guru of the Times

How Far Can You Tolerate Weakness?

Whom Can You Call a Sudguru?

There is a Great Difference Between a Guru and a Sudguru

It is good even if you find such a Guru!

Ultimate salvation at the feet of the Sudguru

Only after recognizing the sadguru can you take shelter from him

The Fact that You Find a Sudguru Means You Qualify!

Complete Surrender to the Sudguru

The Results of the Guru's Grace

Does the Ego Go With Grace or Purushaarth?

The Guru Mantra Will Not Allow You to Slip!

It is beneficial to Meditate on a Guru

Shaktipat (Transfer of energy) or Atma Gnan

How Far Does the Guru Take Us?

More Than the Guru, the Disciple Excels

Then Complete Purity Occurs

A Conduct Deficiency in Disciples

Difference Between the Guru and the Disciple

This is How Religion came to be Criticized!

The disciple only needs humility

One can only give the experience of whatever he experiences himself

Such capability will manage everything

Dada has given away a profound and incomprehensible Gnan

This is How I Will Settle Things!

If Not You Can Make Your Wife Your Guru!

The Real Guru is the One Who Gets Rid of Conflicts!

Do not Waste Your Human Life on a Single Guru!

Guru in the worldly life: Gnani in the real – spiritual life.

You Cannot Forget the Obligation to Your Guru!

From the perspective of a disciple

The Guru's Love, Rajipo!

Guru's extraordinary gift

Antaryami Guru – the guru that is within

Who Does Not Need A Guru?

That is What We Call a Disciple!

You Can Never See Faults of the Guru!

The bottom line is do not destroy reverence

Who is at Fault in this?

The Same Perception Even When Delirious

Guru is the Fifth Danger

You Should Not Even Think Negatively About Your Guru

That is where you need to find a solution

The Khojas (a sect of Shi'a Ismaili branch of Islam) have the true guru worship

Otherwise Make a Pot Your Guru

Grave Danger in Uprooting a Guru

You Cannot Find Faults With the Guru Later On

Faith is What Really Bears Fruits

Does One Have to Keep Faith or Does it come naturally?

Faith Will Surely Come There

A seeker cannot not be like this

There is no liberation without this type of Faith

'Here' faith will come

Obstacles impede faith

Gnani is a depiction of faith

So how can one have vairaag (detachment towards the worldly life)?

Experience is a different thing altogether

There is compassion behind words

Vacchanbud – power of speech is needed, is it not?

But Teach Them in This Way

Attributes of a True Guru

That is When You Can Say You Found a Guru

This is The Way to Recognize Real Wealth

Clear details Through Vitraagta

Who caught on to whose words

Guru, the Son of the Guru

Only the desire to worship has worth

Nobody's Name Remains

Miss your Goal and Desire will take Over

God Stays Away From Desires

You Cannot Acquire Anything Without Purity

The one who moves about freely; that is a Gnani

That Does Not Reach God

What a State of Religion Today!

Where is the Weakness Here?

Temptation Befools a Person!

The Guru Should Not Have Any Self-Interest

A fee for the Guru's visit

Only Purity Is Required

The Priority in the Path of Moksha

That is Called keeping a Difference

Ask to be liberated From All sufferings...

Purity of the Gnani

One's Purity Means...

Everyone Likes To be Superior

Eventually Only Superiority Will Make You Fall

Have You Made Any Disciples or Not?

Are You a Guru or Not?

They Are All Gurus Through This Method

There is No Other Self-Form (svaroop) Than 'This'

You only need to change your direction

The World Will Only Accept A Disciple of the World

That is How This Akram Science is

Who is the Highest Guru?

I really appreciate you reading this book! Here are my social media coordinates:

#

# Editorial

The worldly life is full of father-son, mother-son or daughter, wife-husband etc., relationships. Also to be found in the worldly life is the delicate guru-disciple relationship. It is a relationship wherein after surrendering to the guru, the disciple remains sincere to the guru. For the rest of his life, he maintains humility in front of his guru, he abides by his instructions and attains special spiritual powers. This book puts forth beautiful description of what constitutes an ideal guru as well as an ideal disciple.

People set out with many different beliefs about a guru and hence they become very confused in order to make the right guru in this day and age. Perplexing questions on this matter have been presented to the Gnani Purush Dadashri, and he has given answers to the point of absolute satisfaction.

Gnani Purush means a worldly observatory as well as an observatory of absolute science. To hear answers to questions such as, 'What does the status of guru mean?' 'Is there a need for a guru in spirituality? And if so, to what extent?' 'What characteristics must a guru have? Should they be superior most or humble most?' 'Is the guru qualified? Does he have the master keys necessary for a guru?' 'Is the guru trapped in greed, desires and illusion?' 'Does he have sexual desires or desires to have a following of disciples?' How do you choose a guru? Who should you make your guru? How many gurus should one make? If one already has a guru, can he have another one? What should one do if the guru turns out to be unworthy? What are the dangerous pitfalls inherent in the position of a Guru and the disciple? What should a disciple be like?

This book gives information on various topics concerning gurus and disciples. Information related to what the subtle awareness of the disciple should be. How should a guru behave towards the disciples so that it benefits him as well as the disciple in their spiritual progress? How should the disciple conduct himself with the guru. Where should a disciple establish a guru so that he may acquire knowledge and experience. What kind of 'diseases' (weaknesses) must a guru not have so that he is strong enough to help his disciple progress. How is one to find the kind of devotion Eklavya had for his guru in this day and age? In the same token, through Dadashri we can get answers to questions proposed to him regarding whether as a Gnani he had a guru, whether he had disciples, what kind of a state does he move around in, etc.

According to common knowledge, a guru, a sadguru and a Gnani are considered one and the same, whereas here in this book, Dadashri gives us a clear distinction between the three.

How can one walk the spiritual path without the one who is familiar with that path? To be familiar means to be a guide.

Here in this book you gain knowledge and understanding of what the leader of the path of moksha; the guru should be like.

With the aim and the vision that both, guru and his disciple, go forth on the path of liberation, various visions and understanding regarding the guru-disciple is given by Dadashri; although moving around in the supreme spiritual state as a Gnani, there was no one more humbler. The understanding given to us by way of the Gnani's speech is being presented here, which will become a guide to all those traveling the path of liberation.

Jai Sat Chit Anand

Dr. Niruban Amin

# The Guru and the Disciple

## 'Guru' means guide

**Questioner** : I have been many places and asked many questions about what a guru is but I have not received any satisfactory answers.

**Dadashri:** If you went to the station from here but got lost on the way, wouldn't you need to ask someone for help? Whom would you need to ask?

**Questioner:** Someone who knows the way.

**Dadashri:** Such a person is called a _'_ guru'! As long as you do not know the way, you need to ask someone; you may even have to ask a small child. Whomever you ask becomes your guru. Only when there is a guru will you find the way. What would happen without these eyes of yours? The guru is the other eye. The guru will give you the light of intuition ( _sooj)_ for what you need to do further.

## Who Needs a _Guru_?

**Questioner:** Do you mean to say that we need a guru?

**Dadashri:** It is like this, the road on which one gets lost, is the road he is not able to figure out. If you do not know the way to the station then it is a problem but if along the way, you encounter someone who knows the way, then you will reach the station quickly, will you not?

**Questioner:** Yes, that is true.

**Dadashri:** So you need someone who has the knowledge. It is not as if the person showing you the way is telling you to ask him. You are asking him out of your own self-interest, are you not? For whose benefit are you asking?

**Questioner:** My own benefit.

**Dadashri:** Or you can keep on walking without asking anyone and try to experience that! That experience will teach you that there is a need for a guru. I will not have to teach you.

So there is a path, but there is no one to show it to you, is there? Only if there were someone to show you that path, your work can be done.

Will you not need a guru or an experienced guide? Whoever is the guru, we are considered his followers. The guru walks ahead and shows us the way. Such a person is considered, an experienced guide.

If a man takes the road going in the opposite direction of Surat, is he likely to reach Surat station if he keeps going in that direction? No matter how much he roams, he will not be able to find Surat station. The night would fall and the day would come but he would still not find Surat station. Such is the confusion here.

## When you are lost, a Guide is your friend

**Questioner:** None of these gurus show us the right way.

**Dadashri:** But those gurus themselves do not know the way, so what can anyone do? No one has found an experienced guide yet. If we had, then we would not have these problems. If you had found such a guide, in addition to showing you the station he would also tell you which train to take. He would show you everything and your task would be finished. Here we have a situation where the guide too, is lost and therefore there is a lot of wandering around. So find yourself a true experienced guide who can show you the station. If not, people make guesses and wander around aimlessly.

If a blind person leads another person, where will he take him? A true experienced guide will immediately show you the way. Nothing will be pending; you will see instant results. You have not found a real experienced guide; therefore you must find one.

**Questioner:** But would such a guide not be our superior?

**Dadashri:** An experienced guide is a superior but to what extent? Only to the extent that he takes us where we need to go.

That is why you absolutely need someone above you, someone to show you, you need an experienced guide, you always need a guide. You will need a guide in every situation. No work can be done without a guide. If we want to go to Dehli and we look for a guide then what is he if not a guru? If we give him money, he becomes our guide. A guru is someone who shows you the way as a guide.

**Questioner:** So we need to be enlightened on the path!

**Dadashri:** Yes, the person who enlightens you is called a 'guru', whoever he may be.

You Need a Guru at Every Level

**Questioner:** We walk along the path that is shown to us by the guru. Do we need the guru after that or do we let him go?

**Dadashri:** No, you need him until the very end.

**Questioner:** Why do we need him afterwards?

**Dadashri:** Because you have brakes on your car, you don't have accidents. Should you take out the brakes?

**Questioner:** What is the need of hanging on to him once he shows us the way?

**Dadashri:** You will need a guru until the very end. The guru needs his own guru. When do we need schoolteachers? Don't you need them when you wish to become educated? And what if you do not want to study? If you do not want to benefit from anything then there is no point in making someone your guru, but if you wish to benefit, then you need to have a guru. It is not mandatory; it is all voluntary. If you want to learn, you need a teacher. If you want knowledge about the Soul, then you need a guru, and if you don't wish to know anything, then it doesn't matter. There is no law that says you have to do it this way.

Here, even if you want to go to the station, you need a guru. Therefore, won't you need a guru for religion? You need a guru at every level.

There is no Gnan Without a Guru!

Without a guru, no knowledge of any kind can be attained. Neither worldly knowledge nor spiritual knowledge can be attained without a guru. It is wrong to have expectations of _Gnan_ (knowledge) without a guru.

**Questioner:** One man says that _Gnan_ is not something that is to be taken or given, but rather it is something that happens. Can you explain this?

**Dadashri:** This is a discovery of people who have no awareness. They claim, " _Gnan_ is not to be taken, neither is it to be given. _Gnan_ happens spontaneously." But that state of ignorance never leave. One grows up learning the knowledge he has been given. The teacher gives you knowledge and you take it. You in turn give that knowledge to others. The nature of the entire world is to give and take.

**Questioner:** But can one not acquire _Gnan_ spontaneously?

**Dadashri:** Only rarely will one get _Gnan_ spontaneously, however that is an exception. He may not have found a guru in this lifetime, but he must have found one in his previous life. Otherwise, everything is dependant upon a _nimit_ (someone or something instrumental in a process). When you come across a _nimit_ like me, your work is done but until then you have to work on furthering your spiritual progress. Then if you meet the _Gnani Purush_ as a _nimit_ , because of that _nimit_ , everything will manifest.

**Questioner:** So a person cannot acquire it on his own?

**Dadashri:** Nothing can be attained with one's own effort. As yet, no one in this world has experienced that. If one were able to attain the experience on one's own, then there would no need for schools, would there? There would be no need for colleges either, would there?

## Automatic in reference to this life - swayambudh aye sapeksha.

**Questioner:** The _Tirthankars_ are considered _swayambuddha_ (spontaneous enlightenment), are they not?

**Dadashri:** Yes, the TirtIhankars are all _swayambuddha,_ but they bound a birthright as a TirtIhankar in their previous life because of a guru. Thus, they are called _'svayambuddha'_ in reference to the perspective that they did not have a guru in this life. It is a relative thing. Those who have become _swayambuddha_ today had made inquiries in their previous life. Therefore, everything in the world happens through asking. Only a few _swayambudh_ will experience it spontaneously, but that is an exception. Otherwise, there is no _Gnan_ without a Guru.

**Questioner:** It has been said that Lord Rushabdev destroyed his karmic bondage on his own, so does that mean that he did not need anyone?

**Dadashri:** But he had enlisted some help, earlier on. He asked for help from a guru two or three lives ahead. No one has become free without enlisting help. There is a _nimit_ even in this. It was the people during the time of Lord Rushabdev who claimed that the Lord destroyed his karmic bondage on his own. However, it is not possible to do this on one's own, it has never happened that way before and it never will. That is why you will always need a _nimit_.

**Questioner:** Who was Lord Mahavir's guru?

**Dadashri:** Lord Mahavir had many gurus, but not in his last couples of lifetimes. It is not so easy to do on one's own, is it? Gurus are not needed but this statement is only applicable the final life of the _Tirthankars_.

## How Long Do You Need a Guru For?

**Questioner:** Eklavia acquired _siddhis_ \- spiritual powers, even though he had no guru, so is it not possible?

**Dadashri:** The _siddhis_ that Eklavia acquired were exceptional. But this is not always the rule. Every rule can have an exception, moreover these exceptions are rare however, because of the exception we cannot accept the rule as a blanket rule. If a person does not have a guru in this life, then he would have definitely met one in his previous life!

**Questioner:** In Ekavia's case, he did not learn from Dhronguru but instead he learnt from the guru's idol!

**Dadashri:** He learnt everything in his previous life. The idol was his _nimit_ during that time. One needs a guru in every lifetime.

**Questioner:** Then can we say that, "Only the guru from my previous life will do everything for me." So is it necessary to have a guru in this lifetime?

**Dadashri:** But you may not be able to find him in this lifetime and you may not even need him. What is more, you may even meet him in another lifetime.

Nevertheless, you still have a long way to walk ahead of you. You will need many gurus. You will need a guru until you attain _moksha_. You will not need a guru after you become self-enlightened. These talks about a guru are not trivial; you cannot do without a guru.

## 'Guru is not Necessary' is a false statement

**Questioner:** Many ascetics say that there is no need to have a guru.

**Dadashri:** People who say such a thing are only talking about themselves. Others will not accept what they say. The entire world accepts the guru. Sometimes you may get a bad guru, but that rarely happens. But it will never do to remove the word 'guru' completely!

**Questioner:** Many people do not have a guru.

**Dadashri:** That can never be the case. The reason behind India's current predicament is because people have started to preach 'Do not keep a Guru' Otherwise, India has always been a country that believed, 'No matter what, you must have at least one guru.'

## Even the one who teaches you incorrectly is a guru!

**Questioner:** What difference does it make whether there is a guru or not?

**Dadashri:** If you do not have a guru, what would you do if while walking on a road, you come across seven roads? Which road will you pick?

**Questioner:** We would take the road that the mind picks.

**Dadashri:** No, the mind will simply find the one that will make you wander. You cannot call that a path. That is why you need to ask and make someone your guru. Make someone your guru and ask him which way you are supposed to go. One cannot take even a small step in this world without a guru.

Did you have teachers when you were at school?

**Questioner:** Yes.

**Dadashri:** Wherever you go, you need a teacher. Tell me an instance when you have not needed a teacher.

Then do you not need professors in college?

**Questioner:** Yes we do.

**Dadashri:** Therefore, one will need a guru above him the moment he is born as a human. He will need a guru when he goes to school and he will need one when he goes to college. There are so many kinds of gurus. Those studying metrics will need a metric guru, at that leverl a first grade teacher will not do. So there are many different types of gurus. No one has just one type of guru. The kind of guru one will have will depend on what he is studying.

Then when you read books, are the books not your guru? Unless a book is your guru, you will not read it. Will you not read something only if it is educational and beneficial to you?

**Questioner:** Yes that is right!

**Dadashri:** You have been learning from books and you have benefited because of them. If a book shows you the way and gives you directions, then is that book not your guru? So even a book is your guru.

You learn from teachers, from books, from people; all are considered gurus. So is the whole world not your guru?

**Questioner:** Today's psychology says that one should leave the outside support and rely on one's own support. The outside support, whatever it may be makes a person dependent. If a person is inquisitive, he becomes handicapped because he relies on external support, which in turn supports his inquisitiveness.

**Dadashri:** That should not be the way; people should not become handicapped by relying on external support. One should leave the external support and live on his own support. But until you can rely on your own support you must rely on the external _naimittic_ (instrumental support). Instrumental! Does a book become a _nimit_ (an instrument, an evidence, apparent doer) or not? Is everything not in a _nimit_ form? That is why if today's psychology tells you to let go of your support, you should let go of that support to some extent. However, you do need support to some extent; you need the support of books and many other things.

One man was saying that he did not need a guru, so I asked him, "Who does not have a guru? Tell me. Is your mother who instilled noble values within you not a guru? The one who said, "Son do this. Be careful here, etc.' If she is not a guru, then what is she?"

**Questioner:** That is true.

**Dadashri:** So the mother is the first guru. She will teach the son how to wear clothes. A child has to learn even that and his mother teaches him. She teaches him how to walk and do other things. In which lifetime has he not walked? He has walked for infinite lifetimes, but he has to learn the same thing over and over again.

If there is no wife at home and you want to make _kadhi_ , you will have to ask someone about the ingredients! Whomever you ask is considered a guru. So there is a need for a guru wherever you go. You need a guru for everything. Now if you need some legal work done, it will get done only when you hire an attorney as your guru. Is that not right? So regardless of what you do and where you go, you need a guru. We need a guru in everything!

**Questioner:** So if we wanted to go all the way to _moksha_ , we will need a guru.

**Dadashri:** You need a guru for wherever you want to go. If we are traveling by car and we want to take the highway, then we need to ask someone to guide us, if not we will end up traveling in the wrong direction. So we need a guru in matters related to the worldly life but we also need a guru in matters of _nischayaa_ (absolute reality, the Self). Therefore, it is important to know who is and who can be called a guru.

## A Guru is anything or anyone you learn from

**Questioner:** So as far as religion is concerned, should we have just one guru or should we have gurus everywhere?

**Dadashri:** It is like this. You should maintain the intention ( _bhaav_ ) of being a student or a disciple in every situation. In reality, you should make the whole world your guru. You can learn from even the trees. What do we do to the mango tree? In order to pick the mango off the tree, we use a stick and beat at the branches but even then the tree gives us its fruit. If we learned just this attribute from the tree, how well we would progress spiritually! The tree too is a _jiva_ \- embodied soul! It is not just a piece of wood.

**Questioner:** God Duttatreya made some animals his guru, in what sense was this?

**Dadashri:** Not only Duttatreya, everyone does that. Everyone makes animals their gurus. But these people do not call the animals their gurus, whereas Duttatrey did! If someone were to beat an animal, it would flee. That is what people have learnt; they have learnt that if someone beats them, they should run away. People have learnt this from the animals.

Moreover, you will not settle your karmic accounts by calling just the animals your guru; you will have to make the entire world your guru to settle your karmic accounts. If you make every living entity and organism your guru, and learn whatever you can from them, you will attain liberation. God is present in every living being so if you embrace and learn from them, then you will attain liberation.

Did you understand the concept of a guru?

**Questioner:** You are right.

**Dadashri:** Your experiences are also your guru. However many experiences you have had, they give you advise. And if the experience does not give you advise, then it is not an experience. That is why these are all gurus.

One man was limping and another man began to make fun of him and laugh at him. A little later, he happened to meet me and told me that he had made fun of someone, but then suddenly he realized what he was doing and asked himself whether he saw the soul within the limping man. He said he immediately became aware of _Gnan_.

So everything teaches us. Every experience teaches us something. If just once someone were to pick our pocket that experience will teach us a lesson and that lesson will remain with us.

If you can learn from a dog, you should learn from it. Even dogs can be considered gurus. This dog here has been sitting for an hour and a half. If we gave it a lot of food, it will eat only as much as it can and then leave the rest. It will not hoard the food. We can learn from them too. So everything we learn from, we can consider our guru. The dog does not want to become our guru but if we consider it our guru, then the lesson we learn from it will give results. This is the real way!

If you trip, that too is your guru. How can a person progress without a guru? If you are walking on a road and you trip, the act of tripping will teach you, 'why not learn to look down when you walk?' Therefore, I saw a guru everywhere and in everything. Whomever you benefit from, you should accept that person as your guru. If you learn and gain something by tripping, then you should consider it to your guru. I myself have gained many benefits from everything in this way.

Moreover, there should be no irritation towards the guru. Today all knowledge has been obstructed because of irritation towards the guru.

## Opposition to the importance of a guru is prejudice

So it is not possible to do without a guru. If someone says, "You can do without a guru," it is a contradiction. In this world, it is not possible to get anything done without a guru, whether it is a technical matter or otherwise. Such a sentence is a worthless statement. People ask me why so many people make such statements and I tell them people make such statement without an understanding and that they do not mean any harm by it. They are merely expressing today whatever irritation or aversion they had for their guru from their past life.

**Questioner:** Why would that irritation have arisen towards the guru?

**Dadashri:** When people say there is no need for a guru, do you know what that is comparable to? Once, when I was young, I threw up while eating _doodhpak_ (milk pudding). I may have vomited because of something else; it was not necessarily the _doodhpak_ but I developed an aversion to it. From that moment onwards, I would get nervous at the sight of _doodhpak_. After that whenever they made _doodhpak_ at home, I would tell my mother, "I do not like this sweet dish, so what will you give me insstead?" My mother would reply, "Dear son, there is a millet paste and if you eat ghee and molasses I will give you that," to which I said, "I don't want any ghee or molasses." I would not eat until they gave me honey. Then my mother would explain to me, "When you go to your in-laws, they will make comments like, 'Has his mother never fed him _doodhpak_?' If they serve _doodhpak_ and you don't eat it, it will look bad. So why not start eating a little at a time?" She tried to coax me in many ways, but nothing saved the day. The aversion that I developed stayed with me forever. That is how this aversion or irritation (towards the guru) has taken hold.

**Questioner:** But why is there hatred for the guru?

**Dadashri:** It is because there were many disagreements with the gurus in the past lives so that causes feelings of hatred today. So many different kinds of hatreds are involved. Many people do not hate gurus but they hate God. So this is how people reject gurus, just as I developed an aversion to _doodhpak_ after vomiting, people develop an aversion to gurus.

Otherwise, those who claim that you can do without a guru are contradicting the entire world. This is because they are trying to pass their mistakes off to others. What do you think of this discussion?

**Questioner:** It is true.

**Dadashri:** If you have a dispute with your guru, you may feel it is not worth having a guru. Now, if the guru has hurt you then you may not want to make a new guru, but you cannot force your experience on others. If I had a bitter experience with a guru, I should not go around telling everyone they should not make a guru just based on my own experience alone. You should keep your prior opinions to yourself. You should not tell people this. You cannot give instructions to others about what they should and should not do. This is because the whole world cannot do without a guru. Did you ever need to ask someone for a solution?

**Questioner:** Yes.

**Dadashri:** There has not been a single man in this world who has truly been an adversary of a guru No person should utter the words, "We do not need a guru." Such a statement is a contradiction. If someone should say such a thing, it should be recognized that, it is a single viewpoint and he is attached to his viewpoint.

So all you need to understand is that you need a guru in this world. There is no need to feel hatred towards the guru. The very word 'guru' has scared people! Now what does the main element (the soul) have to do with it?

## You Need a Guru till the very end

People put down their own viewpoints when they say, "A guru is not needed." It could be that they wandered around searching extensively for an answer when finally it answer came from within, thus making them feel it is an unnecessary burden to have a guru.

**Questioner:** When one says, "Guru is not needed," he has reached a certain stage where the guru is no longer needed. Then everything is dependent upon himself.

**Dadashri:** Even Kabir has said,

" _Kabir hud ka guru hai, behud ka guru nahi!"_

"Kabir is a guru to a limited extent; he is not the ultimate guru."

Kabir is a guru only until you reach a certain stage, after that you are on your own. That is why you need a guru until the very end. It is extremely difficult to reach the final destination.

**Questioner:** A guru is needed for worldly tasks and worldly knowledge. But to see yourself as you are, you do not need a guru. Is that not so?

**Dadashri:** You need a guru in the worldly life and you need a guru on the path of _moksha_. Only a few people would say that a guru is not needed. You cannot do without a guru. The guru can be considered a light. You need a guru till the very end. Srimad Rajchandra has said that you will need a guru until the twelfth _goonthana_ (a stage of spiritual evolution where one attains enlightenment) i.e. until you become God.

**Questioner:** My question is not to oppose the guru. I am trying to understand the issue.

**Dadashri:** Yes but really a guru is needed in this world. I too still have a guru! I sit here as the disciple of the whole world. So then who is my guru? People! That is why there is a need for a guru until the very end.

Regardless of what the truth may be, is there anything wrong in telling the truth? If something is wrong, the _'Gnani Purush'_ will immediately say so regardless of whether that person is a king or just a common man! If you don't believe me, then I do not have any objections. But I would not let things continue to go on. I have come to tell the facts to the entire world because until now everything has been hollow and without any substance. Just look at the predicament of India today! Just look!

I cannot speak haphazardly. What is the world looking for? People claim it is acceptable to speak haphazardly as long as it does not cause interferences. However, I cannot utter even a single word that is haphazard or unsubstantiated. What is more, I even know how to but I cannot speak that way. All I can say is "it is" to that which is and "it is not" to that which is not. I cannot say "it is" when it is not and "it is not" where it is.

A guru himself may tell you, 'do not make anyone your guru' – when he teaches this, what is he if not a guru? In the same way people may claim that a nimit is not needed, so what are they if not a nimit in claiming this?

## Only the Nimit is the Most Obliging!

**Questioner:** Yes, if you have the right qualification ( _oopadan_ ) then automatically you will find the _nimit_. That is what they say.

**Dadashri:** Amongst us, there are many who have a very high _oopadan_ (eligibility or qualification for _Gnan_ ) but they wander around because they have not found a _nimit_. Hence, the statement, "When one has the _oopadan_ , he will automatically find a _nimit_ ," is completely wrong. It carries a grave liability. However, if you wish to speak against the _Gnani Purush_ then you can utter this statement.

**Questioner:** Can you give us some clarity between the _nimit_ and _oopadan?_ So if one's spiritual level ( _oopadan_ ) is ready, then the _nimit_ will readily come on its own. And if the nimit is readily available, but the _oopadan_ is not present, then what does the _nimit_ do?

**Dadashri:** All such statements that are written, are incorrect. What is correct, is there is a need for both the nimit and _oopadan_. However, if _oopadan_ is lacking and one finds a _nimit_ , then it will increase.

The _nimit_ verily is beneficial. What if we did away with schools on the belief that, as long as the children (the seeker) and oopadan (seeker's qualifications) is present, a nimit (guru) will automatically come along. What would happen if we did that?

**Questioner:** That will not do, but this entire discussion is about the worldly life.

**Dadashri:** No, whatever is applicable in the worldly life is applicable here too. Here too, a _nimit_ is needed first!

If they did away with all the schools and books, people would not study or learn. With a _nimit_ , your work would progress but without it, it would not. What qualifies as a _nimit_? Books are a _nimit_ , temples are a _nimit_ , _derasars_ are a _nimit_ , the _Gnani Purush_ is a _nimit_. Now if we did not have all these books and _derasars_ , then what will happen to the _oopadan_? That is why your work will be done only if there is a nimit and not otherwise.

The twenty-four _Tirthankars_ have said this very thing, over and over again. They have said for us to revere and praise the _nimit_. If _oopadan_ is lacking and one meets the _nimit_ , then his _oopadan_ will awaken. The reason I am telling you about _oopadan_ is because if you find a _nimit_ and you keep your _oopadan_ dormant, then your work will not be done and the _nimit_ that you have acquired will go to waste. So be careful. That is what it is trying to tell you.

What is _oopadan_? It is to keep the oil or the ghee and the wick ready; it is to keep everything ready for when you have to light the lamp. People have kept everything ready for infinite lifetimes, but they have not found anyone to kindle the lamp. The ghee and the wick are ready but they need someone to kindle it. As yet no one has found _naimittic_ scriptures that will take them to _moksha_. They have not found a _nimit_ such as the _Gnani Purush_ who would take them to _moksha_. They have not found such instruments. People have been wandering around because they have not found such _nimit._.

The way people understand _nimit_ is, if the _oopadan_ is there, then at that time a _nimit_ will be found. But finding a _nimit_ doesn't exactly mean simply finding a _nimit_. One has to have the _bhavna_ (an inner intent to become free). Without the _bhaavna_ , one will not encounter even a _nimit_.

People have misused this statement. The _nimit_ himself is saying there is no need for a _nimit_. Despite being the _nimit_ , he talks this way.

**Questioner:** Yes, even Srimad Rajchandra says the same thing.

**Dadashri:** Not just Srimad Rajchandra, but the _Tirthankars_ too have said that without a _nimit_ no work can be accomplished. So if there is _oopadan_ , then there will be a _nimit._ The statement, "There is no need for a nimit," is not a statement of the _Tirthankars_ or Srimad Rajchandra. Anyone who says such a thing speaks with a great liability. Only the one who speaks this way incurs liability.

Krupadudev said, "Do not look for anything, but find yourself a _satpurush_ (self-realized) and surrender your all at his feet. And then if you do not get _moksha_ from him then come and get it from me." If that were not the case he would have simply written, "Just stay at home and sleep and the _nimit_ will come to you and keep your _oopadan_ awake and active'.

## That Discussion is True But in Nischaya!

**Questioner:** There is also another belief that states, "We accept the absolute necessity for the _nimit_ however, the _nimit_ is not able to do anything!'

**Dadashri:** Indeed if that were the case then there would be no need to search for anything. What need would there be to read books? There would be no need to go to the _derasars_. Would a clever person then not question, "Sir, since a _nimit_ cannot do anything, why are you sitting here? What do we need you for? Why have you published these books? Why have you built this temple?" Would there not be someone to question such things?

If a blind person says, "When I make my own eyes and see through them, then I am truly a man," would we not laugh at him? This is how people talk. There is one professor in the school, for sure he needs students, but do the students not need him also? What kind of craziness is going around? Regardless of who the _nimit_ is, be it a _Gnani Purush_ or the guru, they are being eliminated!!

The _Gnani Purush_ is a _nimit_ and he is your _oopadan_. It does not matter how ripe the _oopadan_ is, without the _nimit_ of the _Gnani Purush_ , the work at hand will not be accomplished because this is one work of spiritual learning that cannot occur without the presence of a _nimit_. My _bhaavarth_ (intention, view, highest meaning) is to tell you that it will not happen without a _nimit._ This is applicable ninety-nine percent of the time, however there is a one percent exception where it may even occur without a nimit. But this fact cannot be taken as a rule. The general rule is that it will occur only through a _nimit_. An exception is a different thing. As a principle, there is always an exception. That is called a principle!

But how far have people gone? First they claim, 'everything is separate and no one thing can help another'. They have made a one-blanket statement by joining these two sentences and that is why everyone feels that no one person can help another.

**Questioner:** They are saying that no one can do anything for anyone else.

**Dadashri:** Now that statement is terribly wrong.

**Questioner:** Then what do the scriptures mean when they say that no one can do anything for anyone?

**Dadashri:** This is a different discussion. The scriptures mean to say something different, but people have interpreted it a different way. People take by mouth, a medicine that was meant to be applied topically and so they die. So what can anyone do? How can we blame the doctor?

If indeed it were true that one person cannot do anything for another then all the lawyers and attorneys would be out of commission! The doctors would be of no use! Wives would be useless. All these people help each other.

**Questioner:** So in which context is the sentence, "No one can do anything for anyone else," written?

**Dadashri:** It is applicable in _nischayaa_ (from the real perspective), it is not applicable to the worldly life. In the worldly life there is give and take, however as far as true reality is concerned, no one entity can do anything for another. "One element does not help another element," too is applicable to reality. However, everything can be done through _vyavahar_ – in the worldly life. Incorrect statements have been fed to the public and consequently it has done a lot of damage.

**Questioner:** That is what I am trying to understand.

**Dadashri:** As far as elements are concerned, no one element can help or hurt another element. The elements cannot mix with each other. This is what that statement means. But people have taken these statements and applied them to the worldly life. But if you look at it, as far as the worldly life is concerned, one cannot even do without a wife. In the worldly life they cannot do without wives and husbands. The entire worldly life is nothing but dependency. But as far as reality is concerned, everything is completely independent. The soul is completely independent. But what happens when you bring all that is applicable to only the reality and apply it to the relative life?

## Knowledge of what is Wrong is Necessary

Do you understand this discussion? I do not insist that what I say is correct and that it is the truth. If you find it be so, then accept it. I do not intend to make every discussion correct. If it suits you then you should accept it and if you do not, it will not bother me. In any event, I have to tell the truth. But otherwise people have just allowed everything to simply continue as is.

**Questioner:** But that is their viewpoint is it not?

**Dadashri:** Yes, that is true, but if I must disclose this truth, because there are people out there who are trying to conceal it. And nobody has the courage to speak this truth out loud. Do you ever get the feeling of 'all this is wrong'?

**Questioner:** Yes Dada.

**Dadashri:** You should have knowledge of what is wrong. One man said to me, "I can now tell if something is wrong." This is what I wanted. Otherwise, uncertainty and doubts will remain; one may feel, "There is some truth here and some truth there." As long as this happens, you will not get the full enjoyment. Through your _Gnan_ , you should be able to tell if something is wrong, then everything will work out fine.

It is like this, if no one says anything, people will carry on as is. A _Gnani Purush,_ like me, can state the facts clearly; I can speak frankly and I can say things exactly as they are.

## Although only an instrument, Absolute Nevertheless

Ask me questions, you can ask anything. You can ask any question. This opportunity may never come again. So ask everything. The questions are good and people will come to know whatever facts this discussion will bring out. We will talk about extreme things. You ask and I will answer.

**Questioner:** It is also said that the guru cannot give _Gnan_ and that _Gnan_ cannot be obtained without a guru. Can you explain that?

**Dadashri:** That is true, is it not? If the guru ever tells you, "It ( _Gnan_ ) happened because of me," then it is incorrect. Another person may say, "It happens without the guru," which too, is incorrect. How do I address this issue? I tell you, "I am giving you that which is already yours. I am not giving you anything that is mine."

**Questioner:** You are a _nimit_ in all this, are you not?

**Dadashri:** Yes of course I am a _nimit_. I am telling you myself that I am a _nimit_. I am merely a _nimit_! But if you accept that I am simply a _nimit_ then you will be at a loss. This is because your _oopkari_ _bhaav_ (your sense of gratitude towards me) will disappear. The greater your gratitude towards me, the greater the results you will acquire. The _oopkari bhaav_ is regarded as reverence.

**Questioner:** If we consider you a _nimit_ then our _oopkari bhaav_ goes away; I do not understand this.

**Dadashri:** I am telling you that I am a _nimit_ , but if you believe that I am a _nimit_ then you will not benefit, i.e. if you regard me as simply a nimit (versus me being your everything with reference to your mosksha), then you will not gain much benefit. If you feel gratitude (towards me) then you will see the results. That is a rule of the world. However, this _nimit_ (Dada) is a _nimit_ that will take you to _moksha_ , so have a lot of gratitude. This (at the feet of a Gnani) is where people are told to surrender. In addition to feeling gratitude, you should surrender your mind, body, and speech. You should inherently feel that it should not take too long to surrender everything.

Even the _vitarags_ have said that the _Gnani Purush_ will claim to be merely a _nimit_ , but those desirous of liberation should not accept that him to be merely a _nimit_. Those in search of liberation should never contend with the idea of the _Gnani_ being simply a _nimit_. What will you get out of believing simply that? Within you, you should behold the feeling, "He (the Gnani) is everything to me," otherwise you have not fulfilled this particular worldly obligation correctly. You have to say, "He will take us to _moksha_ ," while the _Gnani Purush_ says, "I am a _nimit_." This is the (correct) _vyavahar -_ worldly interactions on both the sides.

In reality this is such an easy path, it is the path of equanimity where there are no problems. What do the ones who show you this path and give you blessings, claim? They simply say, "I am a _nimit_." Look, I don't even wear the 'hat of doership' on my head do I? Otherwise, people go around wearing such gigantic hats. Therefore, I am also not even the giver; I am a _nimit_. If you go to a doctor, then your illness may be cured but is it likely to be cured if you go to a carpenter?

**Questioner:** No.

**Dadashri:** So whichever _nimit_ you go to, your work will get done accordingly. By this I mean, if you want to get rid of your anger, pride, attachment, and greed, if you want to get rid of your ignorance then you must go to a _Gnani_.

## The Right Methods Are Found in the Gnani

That is why it is said that you need _sat-sadhan_ (the correct or real tool). What _is_ the real tool? _Sat-dev_ (real _deva_ ), _sat-dhrama_ (real religion), and _sat-guru_ (real guru)! Truthfully speaking, neither the scriptures nor the idol are the real tools. The _Gnani Purush_ is the only real tool. He is an incorporation of everything. The _satdev, sadguru,_ and _satdharma_ ; the combination of all three (the coming together of all three) is a _Gnani Purush_! When the _Gnani_ does _vidhi_ (ceremonial ritual), he is the _sutdev_ ; when he speaks he is _sadguru_ and when we listen to him it is _satdharma_ , all three are the same! You need to worship just one, do not concern yourself with anything else. Otherwise, you will have to worship all three but here you have everything in one.

**Questioner:** In Jainism, there is no such thing as a Guru.

**Dadashri:** No, you are incorrect. Because the very foundation of Jainism is based on _dev, guru,_ and _dharma_ ; it is entirely based on _satdev, sadguru,_ and _satdharma_. What did Lord Mahavir and the twenty-four _Tirthankars_ , say? They said that the world could not do without a guru. So when _sutdev_ , _sadguru,_ and _sutdharma_ are all together, there will be _moksha_. Have you heard something like this?

_Sutdharma_ is the Lord's spoken scriptures and _agams_. _Satdharma_ is there for sure; we have scriptures that are the Lord's spoken words but who can explain them to us without a guru? Then the _sadguru_ , which in the present time cycle, are not to be found. This is because a _sadguru_ must have _Atma Gnan;_ he must be self-enlightened! A _sadguru_ is definitely needed. If he comes to your house begging for alms, you should give him something to eat and in return, you should learn from him. This is how the Lord has arranged it. Every one, even an eighty-year-old man needs a _sadguru_. And what is _sutdev_? It is the _vitarag_ Lord. Now if a Vitarag Lord is not present, you should keep His _murti_ (idol). But the _sadguru_ must be present; his idol will not do.

## Acceptance Through the Mind Is not enough

**Questioner:** It is true that one must have a guru. But what if we believe in a guru with our mind, will that do?

**Dadashri:** Nothing else will do. If you make a mistake, you need someone to tell you so. As far as believing through your mind is concerned, say for example you see a girl and you believe in your mind that she is your wife, will she really become your wife? Does it work that way? Does that mean you are married to her? Will it be acceptable if you do not undergo the rituals of a marriage ceremony?

**Questioner:** Say for example a guru migrates permanently to another country, and I want to believe in him as my guru. Can I not keep his photograph and think of the photograph as my guru?

**Dadashri:** No, you will not get anywhere doing that. A guru is someone who shows you the path. A photograph cannot show you the way, so that guru is useless. If you become sick and you meditate on the photograph of a doctor, will your illness go away?

## Who is Your Guru?

**Questioner:** _Gnan_ expressed itself to you, but had you made anyone your guru?

**Dadashri:** I have not found a living guru. Whom can you call a true guru? A true guru is one that is living and present. Otherwise, all these are merely 'pictures'. Lord Krishna would be useful if he was living. But otherwise people sell his pictures, people buy the pictures and frame them. In this life, I have not made the decision of 'this is my guru' about anyone. One can only be defined a guru if he is present and you behold his presence, which over a few months develops into a _guru-shishya_ (disciple) relationship. I have not developed a relationship like that; I have not found a guru that has been present.

I had more _bhaav_ towards Krupadudev, but because he was not present I could not accept him as my guru. Whom would I accept as a guru? The one who is present, the one who gives me direct _aadesh_ (directives and instructions), the one who gives me advice; such a person can be regarded as a guru. Had I met Krupadudev even for just five minutes, I would have made him my Guru. That is what I have understood. I have not made anyone my guru. I have done _darshan_ of many other saints, but I will not make anyone my guru until my mind accepts them. There is no doubt that the saints I had met were true saints, but acceptance by the heart is needed too.

## Respect for the Gurus of the Past

I do not have a guru in this lifetime, but that does not mean I never had a Guru before.

**Questioner:** So did you have a guru in your previous life?

**Dadashri:** Without a guru, man cannot progress. For that matter, no guru has progressed, without a guru. What I am saying is that not a single person has been without a guru.

**Questioner:** Who was your guru in your previous life?

**Dadashri:** Whoever he was, he must have been good, but how would I know that now?

**Questioner:** Even Srimad Rajchandra had a guru, did he not?

**Dadashri:** He did not find a guru in this lifetime. He had said that if he had found a sudguru, he would have followed him everywhere! His _Gnan_ however was real. In his ultimate state, the _Gnan_ that manifested within him was _Atma Gnan_.

**Questioner:** Even within you, the _Gnan_ that manifested, did so without a guru did it not?

**Dadashri:** I had brought such a karmic account from the past. In the past I met gurus, I met _Gnanis,_ and from them I have brought forth the 'luggage' ( _punya_ ); my progress must have halted due to some mistake or a fault on my part. I did not have a guru in this lifetime, but I must have had one in the previous life. In my past lifetimes, I must have been with a guru and that is why this _Gnan_ manifested in this lifetime!

But I had no inkling that such a phenomenal _Gnan_ would come about. Nevertheless, it exploded completely at Surat station. Then it occurred to me what an extraordinary science this was! It occurred to me that everyone's _punyas_ must have come into fruition. Someone has to become a _nimit_ , right? People started to think, "This person (Dada) experienced this _Gnan_ so spontaneously and easily." But that is not the case. In my previous life, I had made someone my guru and this is the result of that. So, nothing can be accomplished without a guru. The succession of gurus will always be there.

## The Importance of a Living Guru

**Questioner:** Can a guru guide his disciple even though he is not present?

**Dadashri:** A guru is only useful if he is living and present, otherwise he is of no use. If he is not present and living, then that guru cannot help you. How can a non-living guru help you? If you have met the Guru, if you have spent ten to fifteen years together with him, if you have served him for several years and became one with him, you will still reap some benefit from that guru even if he has passed away. But otherwise he is of no use, no matter how hard you try.

**Questioner:** So the gurus that we have not seen cannot help us at all?

**Dadashri:** There will be some benefit. You will gain the benefit of your concentrated meditation, however that benefit will be only worldly in nature. As compared to a non-living guru, even the petty living gurus are better.

**Questioner:** If a guru has taken _samadhi_ , can he help us later?

**Dadashri:** If you had developed relationship with him when he was alive; if you had won his love and received his blessings, then if that guru passes away, then it will still be beneficial. You have to have met him at least once. Those who have not seen or met a guru will not get their work done, and after the dies then no matter what you do, even if you bang your head on the wall with grief, you will attain nothing.

Here pictures of neither Lord Mahavir nor Lord Krishna will help you. Only the one who is living and present can work for you. People have worshiped Lord Krishna and Lord Mahavir for so many lives. Do you think people have ever lacked in their worship? They have become weary from all their worship. Despite going to the _derasar_ every day, they have not achieved the right belief. And what is more, there even a time limit there. These 'medicines' too are subject to an expiration date. You are aware of that, are you not? You know what an expiration date is don't you? That rule is also applicable here. But people keep singing and chanting the names of those who have already departed and they do this without any understanding.

**Questioner:** Why is there so much expectation for a living guru?

**Dadashri:** If the guru is not living then nothing can be achieved; everything will be futile. One can only benefit on a worldly level, because for that amount of time he is involved in doing good work and is compensated for that. If a guru were present here, he would show you your faults and he would remove them. You do not need a guru when you can see all your faults. I am the only one in the whole world who can see his faults and therefore does not need a Guru. Otherwise, everyone needs a guru. And it is pointless singing praise of those that have departed.

**Questioner:** So a picture or a _murti_ cannot be a substitute for a guru?

**Dadashri:** Nothing will work. Those pictures do not endorse anything. Today if you were to take a picture of Indira Gandhi, will it have any power? You want the one that is living today. So today, neither Indira nor Jawahar can help. Right now, only the entity that is present will be able to help you, no one else. Only the signature of the one who is present will be acceptable. Even if you don't have their full signature but just the initials, they will do. And even if you have the full signature of Indira Gandhi, it will not do.

## The Idol is Indirect Worship

**Questioner:** One saint said that we should not depend upon inert things such as photographs or idols. He said we should take support from the one who is living and present in front of us.

**Dadashri:** He is right. If you find a living guru who is good, then you will feel satisfaction. But until you find that guru, you should do _darshan_ of the _murti_. The _murti_ is a step, do not let go of it. Until you attain the _amoort_ (the formless, the soul), do not let go of the _murti_. The _murti_ will always give to the _murta_ (that which has form). The _murti_ does not give to the entity that is _amoort_ (the soul). A thing can only express and bestow its own attributes, because the _murti_ is indirect worship. Even the guru is indirect worship, but the guru is a vehicle to quickly achieve direct worship. He is a living idol. So you should go where there is _pratyaksh_ (a living guru). You should do the _darshan_ of the Lord's _murti_ ; there is nothing wrong in doing _darshan_. When we do that, we are expressing our reverence and we bind _punya_ in the process. So in doing _darshan_ of the _murti_ , our work will move forward, but the _murti_ will not say anything to you. You need someone to tell you, and show you, don't you? Have you not found anyone like that yet?

**Questioner:** No.

**Dadashri:** So when will you find one?

## Egoism Can Be Stopped Only Through the Living Guru

That is why it is said that you should not be without a _sajeevan_ _murti_ (a living idol). Find yourself a _sajeevan murti_ and sit there with him. If he is even two cents better than yourself; if you are at the level of twelve cents and he is at the level of fourteen cents, then sit with him. Those who have departed will not return to show you your mistakes. Only the living guru can show you your faults.

That is why Krupadudev said, "Without the guidance of a living _murti_ , everything one does causes bondage; this is my sincere belief." This one sentence itself explains everything, because without the s _ajeevan murti,_ whatever you do; is _swacchand_ (actions guided by your own ego). _Swacchand_ can only be prevented in the presence of a living guru, not otherwise.

**Questioner:** It has also been said that if one does not have contact with a living _sadguru_ , then he can take the words of those who have become _sadgurus_ and use them as support to do _purushaarth_ (spiritual effort to attain right knowledge). This too has been said, is this true or not?

**Dadashri:** That is what they are doing! And when they attain the Self, you will notice their 'fever' has come down! When one becomes self-realized, can you not tell that his 'fever' has gone down? Can you not tell the difference between a state with fever and a state without fever? Would you not know whether there has been a change in the way one perceives things? _'Samkit'_ means a change in vision! Sometimes there is an exception. Some people are an exception to this rule, but we are not talking about exceptions here. We are talking about things in general.

**Questioner:** Can a person make progress using the words of the _sadguru_ as support?

**Dadashri:** He can gain nothing out of that! Then you might as well get rid of Krupadudev's statement, "I believe that whatever is done without the awareness of a _sajeevan murti_ causes bondage." What a phenomenal statement! Still, there is nothing wrong in what people are doing. If you tell someone that what they are doing is wrong and that they will not attain _moksha_ by doing so, they are likely to get on the wrong path. They may go and gamble some place else. So they are better off doing what they do. But follow the directions of Krupadudev. Look for a living _sadguru_!

So Krupadudev keeps reiterating the point that one should not do anything without a living guru. To do so, is nothing but _swachhand_! The person that moves ahead on his own devices will never attain _moksha_ , because there is no one above him. What is it called when there is no guru or _Gnani_ above you? It is called _swachhand_! Whosever's _swachhand_ is prevented will attain _moksha_. Otherwise, _moksha_ cannot be acquired.

The best thing to do is to ask the guru. Where can you find such a guru in these times? Instead of that, it will also work if you make anyone else your guru. If he is older than you and he takes care of you and you have faith in him and you feel at peace there, then stay and establish yourself there. If he has a few shortcomings, tolerate them. When you yourself are filled with so many faults and he has just a few, why do you judge him? He is higher than you and therefore he will take you higher. It is a huge mistake to judge him.

Until you acquire the enlightened view ( _samyak darahan_ ), _swachhand_ will not leave you. Or there is a way out if you act according to the directions of a guru, however you have to act completely and wholly according to the guru's instructions. If a person conducts himself completely according to his guru, that is a different matter altogether. Even if the guru is not self-realized, there is nothing wrong in that. And if the disciple lives completely according to the guru, then his _swachhand_ will go. Krupadudev had written a lot of truth but even that is difficult to explain! How is it possible to understand as long as one's _swachhand_ is still present? And is it an easy thing for _swachhand_ to go?

**Questioner?** So until we meet a _Gnani_ , our _swachhand_ will not go away!

**Dadashri:** No. However even if one makes a crazy happy-go-lucky person his guru and always maintains humility as a disciple and never falters in his duties as a disciple, then we can say that his _swacchand_ is gone. However, people have opposed their gurus and yelled abuses at them. Man does not have the capacity to live without failing to respect, because when he sees something amiss, his intellect begins to act up!

If you do not find a _Gnani_ , then you will need a guru. If not, then you are likely to walk around with _swachhand_. If we let go of the string of a kite, what will become of that kite?

**Questioner:** It will stumble.

**Dadashri:** Yes, so this is similar to letting go of the string of a kite. As long as we do not have the soul in our hands, you do not have the string of the kite in your hands. Do you understand?

## Your head instinctively bows upon seeing Him

**Questioner:** Yes, we should make someone our guru. Without a guru we cannot attain _gnan_ , this principle is correct.

**Dadashri:** That is correct. Now, 'guru' is an adjective. The word 'guru' is not itself guru. It is guru through the adjective of 'guru'; for example, with certain adjectives one is a guru and with certain adjective one is a God!

**Questioner:** What are the qualities of a true guru?

**Dadashri:** The guru that has love and is beneficial to you is the real guru. Where can you find such real gurus? Such a guru is one where just the mere sight of him, your whole body will bow down in reverence, without a thought. That is why it is written:

' _Who can be called a guru? It is the one whose very sight makes our heads bow_.'

Just upon seeing him, our head will bow. That is the definition of a guru. That is why if one is a guru then he must be omnipotent. Then you can achieve liberation, but not otherwise.

## The Guru That merges In the Eye of the Beholder

**Questioner:** Then there is the question, "Whom should we make our guru?"

**Dadashri:** Wherever your heart becomes pacified; make that person your guru. Do not call him your guru until your heart becomes still and pacified. That is why I have said if you make someone your guru, make sure it is someone who merges into your eyes.

**Questioner:** What do you mean by 'merges into the eye'?

**Dadashri:** When young men get married, they look at girls. They will meet and see many girls. What are they looking for? They are looking for a kind of girl who would be acceptable in everyway. If she is fat, she will feel heavy to his eyes. If she is skinny then he feels hurt; we can understand this by looking into his eyes. So what do we mean by 'a guru such that he will merge into the eye'? It means that he is acceptable to your eyes in every way. His speech should 'fit', his conduct should 'fit'. This is the kind of a guru you want!

**Questioner:** Yes, that is correct. One can only depend upon a guru that has those qualities.

**Dadashri:** Yes if ever a guru is such that he can dwell in your heart and you like everything he says, then you can become dependent on him and be free from suffering. A guru is a very big thing. You should feel you are at peace. Just by looking at him, you forget the world, you become oblivious to the world; such a person can be made a guru. Otherwise, there is no great importance for a guru!

## You have to understand the _gurukilli_ (master key or special directives)!

Guru is very important. The problems with the gurus nowadays are due to the effect of the current time cycle. It is due to the current destructive time cycle that the gurus have no substance. The gurus have become like vegetables! That is why your work does not get accomplished! And the gurus today are going around without a _gurukilli_ (special directives on how to be a guru). One man came to me and said to me, "You are our guru." I replied, "No young man, don't call me your guru. I do not like it. What is the meaning of a guru? Go and ask everywhere." Does Guru mean light or heavy?

**Questioner:** It means heavy.

**Dadashri:** Heavy, therefore he is bound to sink (fail). If he is going to sink, he can sink but everyone else will drown along with him. That is what has been happening in the world. So why are you making a guru out of me? That is why you must ask the guru, "Guru _maharaj_ , do you have a master key that will prevent us from drowning? You are heavy so you will definitely drown and you will drown us too. So do you have a master key? You are not the type that will drown are you? Then I shall sit with you." If he says, 'yes' then you should sit.

**Questioner:** No one would admit that he is the kind of guru, who would drown, would he?

**Dadashri:** Yes but if you tell him 'Sir it appears that you lack commonsense'. If you say only this much to him, you will find out immediately whether he is someone who will sink you or not.

Otherwise all gurus without the master key have sunk. They sank themselves and their disciples along with them. There is no telling where it will lead. If the guru has the master key then he will not sink. In the past, the gurus of the gurus would pass down this key; they would pass this key on to each succeeding guru. What would they tell their disciples? They told them they could become gurus but they should keep 'this' master key with them. Only then will they not drown themselves and others. So now I am asking these gurus whether they have the key or not. And they ask me, 'what kind of a key?' That is it! You can tell right away, they don't have the master key. That is why they are still wandering! Don't let just anyone be your guru. They have forgotten the master key. There is no master key to begin with. This is Kaliyug and so people will drown for sure, this was not the case in the past time cycle of Satyug.

**Questioner:** But the guru is a savior, he will not drown us.

**Dadashri:** No, but only if he has the master key can he stay afloat and help others do the same. If the guru does not have a master key then you are in trouble. People will praise him and flatter him and it will go to his head. Then his mind will explode. Don't you think people praise me? Therefore, it is only useful when you have a master key. A master key is a tool the guru has that will not allow him to sink. It is a key, an understanding, which their gurus give them confidentially. The great gurus, the _Gnani Purush_ , give this key confidentially; they give this key in the form understanding which tells them "If you work with your disciples in this way, you will not sink and neither will anyone else."

**Questioner:** In order to become a guru you need a master key, so what is that master key?

**Dadashri:** The _Gnani Purush_ gives him an understanding and an assessment of what he is like. The _Gnani_ tells him, "You are not a guru. You are a guru only by name. You are nameless. Remain _laghuttam_ (smallest of the small) and then be a guru, then you will stay afloat and keep others afloat." These people don't even have a master key and they proclaim themselves as gurus. One should acquire the understanding about the master key from the _Gnani_. He should get the master key from the 'Gnani Purush'; then there will be a safe side for him and others too.

People ask me, "What are you?" so I tell them, "I am a _laghuttam Purush_. There is no other living being smaller than me in this world." Now can such a _laghuttam_ person sink in any way?

**Questioner:** No he cannot.

**Dadashri:** _Laghuttam_! It means to touch, but not sink. And if others sit with me, they will not sink because the _Gnani Purush_ himself is _laghuttam_ , and is experienced and therefore he can take you to the other side. He has swam across the ocean of the worldly life and is capable of helping others do the same.

## The Difference Between a Guru and a Gnani

**Questioner:** Can you explain the difference between a guru and a _Gnani_ _Purush_?

**Dadashri:** There is a big difference between the _Gnani Purush_ and the guru! The guru is always for the worldly life. Without a _Gnani Purush_ , there is no liberation. The guru takes us further in the worldly life and he makes us just the way he is. Other than this, he cannot give you anything more. And liberation is what the _Gnani Purush_ gives. So you need a guru for the worldly interaction, but for _nischayaa_ (self-realization) you need the _Gnani Purush_. You need them both.

What does the guru do? He studies further and he continues to teach those that follow him. I am a _Gnani Purush_ , it is not my business to learn and teach. If you want _moksha_ then I will find a solution for you; I will simply change your vision. Whatever happiness I have attained, I make others attain that very happiness and then I move aside.

The guru gives _Gnan_ , the _Gnani_ gives _vignan_ i.e. the guru gives knowledge, and the _Gnani_ gives you the absolute science. Knowledge will make you bind _punya_ in the worldly life and will show you the path. The science will take you to _moksha_. A guru is a teacher of a kind. He has adopted certain principles himself and his speech is good, so he brings others into discipline. He cannot do anything else; however, people become happier in the worldly life because they become principled. And the _Gnani_ _Purush_ will take you to _moksha_ , because he has the license for _moksha_.

There is nothing wrong with the worldly guru. We ought to have a worldly guru whom we can follow. But the _Gnani_ cannot be called a guru. The _Gnani_ is the manifestation of the supreme soul in a physical form. He is not the owner of his body, his mind, or his speech.

The guru too, has to go to the _Gnani Purush_ because within him, there are weaknesses of anger, pride, illusion, and greed; there is ego and attachment within him. If you offer him a gift, he will make you put it inside quietly. There is ego and attachment wherever you look; it is bound to be there! But people do need gurus also!

## The Detached Guru of the Times

**Questioner:** So we need a guru that has no attachment, is that not what that means?

**Dadashri:** Yes, you need a guru who is _unasakta_ (free from infatuation that arises from within, due to attachment). Of what use is he if he is infatuated with money or anything else? He has the same disease as we do; both have a disease. The only guru that is useful is the one who has no infatuation.

There is nothing wrong even if the guru eats fritters or _ladoos_ (sweets) every day; all you have to do is determine whether he has any infatuation. Some gurus may subsist on just milk alone, but all you have to worry about is whether he has any infatuation. All these gurus have demonstrated all kinds of mischief, "I don't eat this, I don't eat that." Oh just let go of your nonsense! Just go and eat. Are you not eating because you don't get any food? They are simply being ostentatious. It is a kind of a display board that says, "I don't eat this and I don't do that." They keep such boards in order to entice people toward them. I have seen many such 'boards' in India. Nevertheless, you need a guru without infatuation. Then you do not have to worry about whether he eats or not.

He that has the slightest infatuation is not going to be useful as a guru. The whole world is in a state of destruction because people found gurus with infatuation. One can be called a guru when he does not have the disease of infatuation. There should not be the slightest of infatuation.

## How Far Can You Tolerate Weakness?

**Questioner:** The state of a guru is very mysterious. We would understand only if we were acquainted with him in the past, otherwise you cannot tell from the hypocrisy outside.

**Dadashri:** If you live with him for a fortnight or so, then you would be able to see his impatience, and as long as he is hyperactive and easily agitated, you will not gain any benefits. He should be stable and patient.

Moreover, he should not have a single atom of _kashayas_ i.e. anger, pride, attachment, or greed within him. We can even make do if his _kashayas_ are reduced. However if his _kashayas_ are very strong, and we have _kashayas_ within us too, what can we achieve there? Therefore, you cannot make a guru out of someone who is full of _kashayas_. If you annoy him a little, and he shows you his 'fangs', then you cannot have him as a guru. You can make someone your guru as long as he has no _kashayas_ or if his _kashayas_ have diminished. Diminished _kashaya_ means he can turn things around without doing _kashayas_. It means he turns everything around before he experiences anger, and so he must have control over his _kashayas_. Such a guru will do. A _Gnani Purush,_ on the other hand has no anger, pride, attachment, or greed, because he remains detached. He remains separate from this body, mind and speech!

## Whom Can You Call a Sudguru?

**Questioner:** Now whom can we call a _sadguru_?

**Dadashri:** It is very difficult to call someone a _sadguru_. In the language of the scriptures, whom can you call a _sadguru_? _Sat_ is the _Atma_ , so whoever has attained the soul, that guru is a _sadguru_!

So the _sadguru_ can be called an _'Atma Gnani'_ (knower of the Soul, Self-Realized), for he has experienced the _Atma_. Not all gurus have _Atma Gnan_. So the one who continuously remains in the state of _sat_ (state of the soul), who remains in the permanent element, is a _sadguru_! Therefore, the Gnani _Purush_ is a _sadguru_.

**Questioner:** Srimad Rajchandra has said that without a living and directly present _sadguru_ , you can never attain _moksha_.

**Dadashri:** Yes, _moksha_ cannot occur without that. And what should a _sadguru_ be like? He must be free of all _kashayas_. Even if we hit him and yell abuses at him, he would still not do _kashaya_. Not only is he free of _kashaya_ , his intellect (buddhi) should also be completely gone. He should not have any intellect. If you go to people with _buddhi_ , how will you achieve _moksha_ when they have not attained it themselves? So he should not be affected whether you slap him or yell abuses at him. If you beat him or throw him in jail, he should remain unperturbed. He should be beyond all dualities. Do you understand what we mean by 'duality'? Win or lose, happiness or suffering, pity or mercilessness. In duality, if there is one attribute within, the other attribute will always be there too. That is called 'duality'! So whichever guru is free of duality, we can call him _sadguru_.

In the current time cycle, there are no _sudgurus_. Sometimes there are in some places but generally speaking _sudgurus_ do not exist. So people have wrongly assumed that their gurus are _sudgurus_. That is why everything is at a standstill; otherwise if you had found a true _sadguru_ , would you have all these worries?

## There is a Great Difference Between a Guru and a Sudguru

**Questioner:** Everyone has accepted their guru as a _sadguru_ , what is that?

**Dadashri:** In all the religions in India, people consider their own respective guru as being a _sadguru_. No one uses the term 'guru' alone, they use the term _'sadguru'_ but its meaning is in the worldly language. In the worldly life, people call a guru with very high conduct, a _'sadguru',_ but from the real perspective, he cannot be considered a _sadguru_. The quality of his _prakruti_ may be very high, he may have poise when eating and drinking, he may have poise in all worldly interactions. In the worldly life, the quality of his behavior may be very high but if he has not attained self-realization, he cannot be called a _sadguru_.

It is like this, there are two kinds of guru. One is in the form of a guide, meaning we have to follow him. He walks ahead like a leader or a monitor. He is called a 'guru'. Do you understand the term 'monitor'? It is someone we follow. If we come to a fork in the road, he will decide, "No not this road. Let us take that road." So we walk on that road. You have to follow him, but he is always in front of us. He does not sway from the route. The other is a _sadguru_! A _sadguru_ is someone that liberates us from all our worldly suffering, because he himself is liberated! He does not keep us as his followers. And the guru is someone we have to trust and keep following. There you must not use your own brain and wisdom and you must stay sincere to the guru. The degree of your sincerity to him, is the degree of peace you correspondingly experience.

The need for a guru starts from the time we start school to the time we reach the door of spirituality. A guru can take us all the way to spirituality but we cannot enter into the gate of _Atma Gnan_ (knowledge of the soul), with the guidance of a guru since he himself is looking for _Atma Gnan_. What is _Atma Gnan_? It is to come closer to the Self, our real Self. The _sadguru_ helps bring us closer to our real Self.

So there is a difference between a guru and a _sadguru_!

## It is good even if you find such a Guru!

People have not understood the guru. People in India have not understood whom to call a guru! People call anyone wearing saffron colored robes, a guru. If he quotes even a few words from the scriptures, people call him a guru. But that is not a guru.

One man told me, "I have made someone my guru," so I asked him to explain to me what his guru was like. Anyone who does not have _artadhyan_ or _raudradhyan_ is a guru ( _artadhyan_ is adverse meditation wherein one experiences worries or suffering from within, without anyone's knowledge; r _audradhyan_ is wrathful meditation where one's anger is directed towards others or has inner intent hurt others). Unless a person has these qualifications, it is a sin to call him a guru. You can call him ' _sadhu maharaj'_ you can call him a ' _tyagi'_ (someone who has renounced the worldly life), but to call him a 'guru' is a sin. Otherwise, if you want to understand the word guru from the worldly perspective then you can even call a lawyer, a guru; from the worldly perspective, everyone is a guru!

Any guru that can make us do _dharmadhyan_ (absence of _artadhyan_ and _raudradhyan_ ) can be called a guru. Who is able to make others do _dharmadhyan_? It is someone who can stop people from doing _artadhyan_ and _raudradhyan_ ; he can make people do _dharmadhyan_. If a guru does not do _raudradhyan_ when someone insults him, then you should know that he is worthy of being your guru. If today he does not get any food but he does not do _artadhyan_ , then know he is worthy of being your guru.

**Questioner:** If he does not do _artadhyan_ and _raudradhyan_ , then is he not a _sadguru_?

**Dadashri:** A _sadguru_ is someone who is a representative of the Lord. If he is liberated then he is a _sadguru_. The guru has yet to discharge all kinds of karma and the _sadguru_ has already discharged many of his karma. So the one who does not have _artadhyan_ and _raudradhyan_ is a guru and the one who gives you _moksha_ in your hand is a _sadguru_. It is difficult to find a _sadguru_ , but if you find a guru, that is also very good.

## Ultimate salvation at the feet of the Sudguru

**Questioner:** Then should we take shelter from a guru or a _sadguru_?

**Dadashri:** If you find a _sadguru_ , there is nothing better, but if you do not find a _sadguru_ then you should at least have a guru. A _bhed vignani_ (a scientist that has knowledge of the Real Self and the relative self and is able to impart the experience of this knowledge to others) is a _sadguru_.

**Questioner:** So do we need a guru first or a _sadguru_?

**Dadashri:** If there is a guru, only then can one get on the path! However, if you find a sudguru then you will attain salvation. Then it is immaterial whether you find a guru or not, because the _sadguru_ will give everyone salvation. If you find a guru, and you will embark on the path, it will not take you long because you will not have any negative qualities. But should you be graced by the touch of the _sadguru's_ hand, you will attain salvation.

**Questioner:** Are there people who have really attained the truth?

**Dadashri:** There cannot be any. In this time cycle such people are very rare, they may be in some place, somewhere. Otherwise, they do not exist. From where would you bring such a person? If there were to be such a person, would this world not have blossomed? Would there not be light?

**Questioner:** Then why would one enter the cycle of birth and death without a _sadguru_?

**Dadashri:** Yes, it is because there is no _sadguru_ around that all this (progress) has come to a halt!

**Questioner:** What is Srimadji saying when he says to follow the feet of a _sadguru_ and that one will attain _moksha_ in the ninth life?

**Dadashri:** It is difficult to find a _sadguru_. That _sadguru_ would be difficult to find here. It is not easy to find a sudguru. The _sadguru_ must be a _Gnani_. You can have a guru who is not a _Gnani_ , but he does not have the complete understanding and knowledge, whereas the _Gnani_ will give full explanation. He would explain all the facts. The one who has nothing more left to know is called a _'Gnani'_! It is not as if he knows only about the Jain religion; he knows everything and that is why he is called a _'Gnani'_! And if you were to meet him, you would attain _moksha_ after nine lives, in fact you can even attain _moksha_ after two lives.

But it is difficult to find a _sadguru_! Nowadays there are no real gurus around so how can you find a _sadguru_ here? And when a _sadguru_ like Srimad Rajchandra was living and present, people did not recognize him.

## Only after recognizing the sadguru can you take shelter from him

**Questioner:** How can we recognize a _sadguru_ like that?

**Dadashri:** Such a person is easily recognizable just like a burning light. He emits a fragrance, a tremendous fragrance.

**Questioner:** But how are we to recognize a _sadguru_ , how are we to know that he is a real _sadguru_?

**Dadashri:** It is like this; if you were an expert, you would be able to make an assessment with your (trained) eyes. Some of the qualities of a _sadguru_ are: his speech, behavior and humility will conquer your mind; he will captivate your mind. You would be in awe of him! Your mind will continue to become captivated.

**Questioner:** Many times, people's commitment and minds become swayed when they look at the worldly interactions of a guru or the _sadguru_ , so what should we do?

**Dadashri:** If observing the worldly interaction of your guru sways your commitment to him, then you must inquire in detail whether your doubts have a basis or if they are unfounded. Measure the situation from every angle and as far as you can, with your intellect. In spite of that if you still do not feel comfortable then, without aggravating him, you should find another 'shop'. Continue to seek until you find the real one.

**Questioner:** But without our own progress, how can we recognize the _sadguru_?

**Dadashri:** You should tell him from the beginning, "Sahib I do not want to do any business. I want liberation. So if you are liberated, can I come and sit by you and serve you?" Is there anything wrong with saying this? But does anyone say, "I will give you liberation"? Then there is no need for a witness. You should immediately clarify with him, "I will stay with you for six months and I will do as you tell me to. If by then, I have not gained any benefits, I will leave." But no one says anything like this, even in this world not one person will utter such a thing. What is wrong in asking? "Sahib, if you are liberated please tell me. I want liberation too. I cannot afford any other stations (locations). I have no need for the middle station." You should be upfront and clear. Then he will say, "Son, I myself am at the middle station." Then you would understand that you do not need the middle station. You will only find the right place if you search in this way, otherwise you will not find it. You should ask him respectfully. It is because we have sat in places without asking that we have wandered for endless lives until now. If that sahib lives in the middle station and we too live there, what good will it do?

**Questioner:** So how would knowledge from books help us find a _sadguru_?

**Dadashri:** It would not be useful. That is the reason for all this wandering. For infinite lives, we have followed the knowledge of books and even then we have wandered and wandered. To find a _sadguru_ is a big deal. However, the one that desires liberation will get everything. The desire to become free must be there. Those who desire fame and want to be worshipped take longer; they have to wander for many lives. Do you understand what their desire is? It is the desire for recognition, fame, and importance. People call out to them, "Come in sheth, please come in, come in!" When people address them in this way, they taste the sweetness of importance that people feed them. People stay back to taste just this. The pleasure of tasting that sweetness is incomparable!

## The Fact that You Find a Sudguru Means You Qualify!

**Questioner:** Once we find a _sadguru_ , do we not have to make efforts to follow his instructions?

**Dadashri:** There is an end to following. Your efforts to follow should be for six to twelve months. It should not take forty-fifty years!

**Questioner:** That depends on the seeker's qualifications.

**Dadashri:** There is no need for qualification. If you find a _sadguru_ , then there is no need for qualification. And if you have not found a _sadguru_ then you need to qualify! If the _sadguru_ has a B.A. (Bachelor of Arts), then that is the level of his qualification, and if he has a B.A.B.T (Bachelor of Arts, Bachelor in Teaching) then that would be the level of his qualification. Your qualifications are not needed in this.

**Questioner:** No, I am not talking about worldly qualifications. But are there not different qualifications for one's spiritual advancement?

**Dadashri:** No, once you meet the _sadguru_ there is no need for qualifications. The fact that you meet a _sadguru_ is in itself your finest _punya_.

**Questioner:** But after meeting the _sadguru_ , is there no need for any spiritual effort? Is everything done solely through the _sadguru_?

**Dadashri:** No, you only need to carry out the disciplines that he tells you to, there is no need to qualify. On the contrary, those with qualifications are filled with the notion of "I understand everything anyway," and therefore qualifications causes one to become intoxicated. Indeed if one has any qualifications, they should be qualifications that are worth keeping. A person should understand that if he has any intoxication of being qualified, then he must get of rid it. Intoxication is what gets in the way of having the qualifications and meeting a _sadguru_. Qualified people are usually reserved and they keep their distance, whereas those with lesser qualifications will always say, "Sahib, I have no common sense. I am putting everything on you. I am now in your hands. You find a solution." Then the _sadguru_ becomes happy. That is all you need to say. The _sadguru_ does not ask for anything else, nor does he look for any other qualifications.

## Complete Surrender to the Sadguru

**Questioner:** One should have worship for only the _sadguru_ , is that what you are saying?

**Dadashri:** You need to surrender completely to the _sadguru_.

**Questioner:** What if we maintain the intention to completely surrender to the _sadguru_?

**Dadashri:** Then your work will be done. If you have the _bhaav_ of complete surrender, then all your work can be done and then nothing else will remain, however that surrender needs to be through your mind, speech, and body.

**Questioner:** Such surrender is only powerful and worthy if done to someone of the caliber of Lord Krishna or Lord Mahavir, correct? Alternatively, is it acceptable to surrender even to an ordinary person?

**Dadashri:** If you find a person you feel is omniscient, then you should surrender to him. If you feel that he is a great man and his deeds are outstanding, then you should surrender to him.

**Questioner:** If we surrender to the great souls that lived thousand of years ago, can that be considered surrender? Can we make any progress through such a surrender? Or do we need a living presence of such a great man?

**Dadashri:** You can progress even through _paroksha bhakti_ (indirect worship). However if you find a living presence ( _pratyaksh_ ) of such a person, then your liberation will be instant. The indirect approach will give you the benefit of progress but there is no salvation without the living presence of such a being.

After surrendering, you do not have to do anything else. If a child is born to us, the child does not have to do anything, in the same way after surrendering you do not have to do anything.

To whomever you surrender your intellect, you will attain the strength of that person. If you have surrendered then you will attain everything of his. Just as we join two tanks with a pipe, then no matter how much water is in one tank, the other tank will bear the same level of water. That is the power of _samarpan bhaav_ (intent of surrender).

He that has attained _moksha_ himself and who sets out to give _moksha_ to others is the only one that can give _moksha_. I have set out to give the gift of _moksha,_ therefore, I can give _moksha_. Otherwise no one can give the gift of _moksha_.

**Questioner:** Is the _sadguru_ not relative?

**Dadashri:** _Sadguru_ is relative, but the _sadguru_ that gives Gnan is real. With the real, you can attain the pure experience of the soul, which is the ultimate happiness, i.e. the happiness is of the _Atma_. 'Real' means permanent and 'relative' means temporary. The relative gives happiness to the mind.

**Questioner:** So does that not mean that the _sadguru_ is an instrument to entertain the mind?

**Dadashri:** Of course! If the _sadguru_ has _Gnan_ then He is an instrument for the attainment of the bliss of the soul, and if he does not have _Gnan_ then he is an instrument to give happiness to the mind. If the _sadguru_ is an _Atma Gnani,_ then he would be an instrument for the attainment of the bliss of the _Atma_. If the _Atma Gnani_ were a sudguru then he would constantly be on your mind. Then he is real and if not, you would not even think about the _sadguru_.

**Questioner: '** When we surrender our all to the real guru, all our work is accomplished'; how true is this statement from the perspective of the worldly life?

**Dadashri:** This is completely true for the worldly life. If you surrender to a guru then your one life will go straight. Why? Because you surrendered to the guru and that means you follow the guru's _aagnas_ , so you will not suffer.

## The Results of the Guru's Grace

**Questioner:** When you speak about the guru and the guru's grace, a question arises in my mind about what is the guru's grace? Is there any reality or substance to it?

**Dadashri:** Whatever energies there are, they are all with substance and reality; they do not lack substance. They are all energies and energies always last for a certain amount of time; a certain number of years and then they melt away.

**Questioner:** What should a disciple do in order to acquire the grace of the guru?

**Dadashri:** In order to acquire the Guru's grace, all the disciple has to do is keep the guru happy. Do whatever makes him happy. If you keep him happy then grace will be there for sure. But how much grace can you acquire? Your grace is dependent on whatever is in the 'tank', whatever the amount is in the tank, you can attain that level. What is _'krupa-dhrashti'_? When the disciple does what the guru asks, it keeps the guru happy and that is called _'krupa dhrashti'._ If the disciple does just the opposite then the guru will be displeased.

**Questioner:** So does the guru's grace not fall on everyone?

**Dadashri:** No the grace may not be on some people, if a disciple does something wrong, he may not have the guru's grace.

**Questioner:** So how can we call him a guru? Everyone should be the same in the guru's eyes.

**Dadashri:** Yes, that should be the case, but if a man is doing something wrong with the guru, then what can the guru do? Now if it were a _Gnani_ then it would be the same. But in the case of a guru, if you do something wrong, he may 'vomit' all over you.

**Questioner:** It is not acceptable that the guru graces one person and not another. Surely the guru always has equal grace for everyone?

**Dadashri:** No, but whatever is within one, each person receives his or her own fruit. If you do something wrong, you will receive the wrong fruit. The _Gnani Purush_ however, is a _vitarag_. Even if you slapped him, he would not destroy his vision of equanimity towards you. But whatever you hurl towards the _Gnani_ , if it is an insult, you will receive back the insult a hundred times bigger in return and if it is a flower, you will receive one hundred flowers in return.

## Does the Ego Go With Grace or Purushaarth?

**Questioner:** In order to be free of the ego do we need our own spiritual efforts or the grace of a guru?

**Dadashri:** You need grace. You need the kind of _sadguru_ whose ego has gone, only then will the ego go away. It is a guru's job to destroy the ego; it is a task for the _Gnani_. Where would the guru get that kind of knowledge? His own ego will not go. When his attachment has not left him, how and when will his ego go? When he meets the _Gnani Purush_ in whom there is not trace of _buddhi_ (intellect), only in front of such a _Gnani_ will the ego leave.

**Questioner:** Can compressed karma be destroyed in this time cycle of kaliyug through the guru?

**Dadashri:** They cannot be destroyed through the guru; for that we need a _Gnani Purush_ ; a _bhed-vignani_ (scientist who can separate Self and the non-self)! A bhed-vignani in whom there is no ego or intellect ( _buddhi_ ). Such a person can destroy your karma. And since the guru has an ego, nothing like this can be accomplished.

**Questioner:** Even in the scriptures it is written that it ( _gnan_ ) must acquired as guru-gamya, i.e. gnan that has manifested within the guru.

**Dadashri:** Yes, but what do we mean by _guru-gamya_? It is only _guru-gamya_ when you can see the soul, otherwise many are wandering around with _guru-gamya. Guru-gamya_ is only worth it if it allows you the experience of your _Atma_. Such a person is beyond all _agams_ (Jain scripture), if you find such a _Gnani Purush_ , then you will attain _guru-gamya_.

## The Guru Mantra Will Not Allow You to Slip!

**Questioner:** In every religion, every disciple is given a _guru-mantra_ by the guru. What is that?

**Dadashri:** It is done so that people would not fall down or slip (spiritually or religiously). If a disciple hangs on to the _gurumantra_ , then he will not slip, but it has nothing to do with _moksha_.

**Questioner:** If a guru gives _namasmaran_ (chanting of a particular name), is that not better than the _namasmaran_ given by an ordinary person? Is the power not greater when the guru gives it?

**Dadashri:** If it is given, then it will yield good fruits. It is all dependant upon the what type of guru one is; it is all dependent upon the guru.

## It is beneficial to Meditate on a Guru

**Questioner:** Many gurus tell their disciples to meditate on them, is that acceptable or not?

**Dadashri:** The meditation is done not for the guru's happiness but for the disciple's concentration and peace. But what should the guru be like? He should be able to keep people's attention engaged.

**Questioner:** But is it proper to meditate on the _sadguru_ or on some other god?

**Dadashri:** You do not know how to meditate on God, so what will you do there? Instead, you should meditate on the guru. At least you are able to see his face. In this case it is better to do meditation of the _sadguru_ because you cannot see God. You can do meditation on God only after I show you, until then, meditate on whichever _sadguru_ you happen to pick. Once I show you God, you will not have to do that. As long as you have to do something, whether it is meditation or anything else, you will be subject to wandering in the life-death cycle. Meditation must be natural and spontaneous ( _sahaj_ ). _'Sahaj'_ means that you do not have to do anything, it just happens by itself; then you should be assured that you are free.

## Shaktipat (Transfer of energy) or Atma Gnan

**Questioner:** What is the ritual involved in the _shaktipat_ (transfer of energy), that gurus practice? How does it benefit the disciples? Is that _siddhi_ (special power) a shortcut to _Atma Gnan_?

**Dadashri:** You want to attain _Atma Gnan_ only, is that right? You only need _Atma Gnan_ , correct? Then there is no need for _shaktipat_ in that. Has your energy diminished? If so then take a vitamin!

**Questioner:** No, no, the _shaktipat_ that the gurus perform, what kind of _kriya_ is that?

**Dadashri:** Say there is a five-foot wide stream and a person cannot jump over it. He keeps falling over. So then you tell him, "Hey go ahead and jump it, I am right behind you." Then he will be able to jump it. So a guru gives encouragement in this way. What else can he do! Is your courage broken?

**Questioner:** Without a guru, one's courage is bound to break!

**Dadashri:** So ask the guru to give you courage. And if the guru is not pleased, then come to me. If the guru remains pleased then don't come to me. In this world we only need _rajipo_ \- grace due to pleasing the guru, because what does the guru want to take with him? He is only concerned about how to give you happiness. His aim is to procure _Atma Gnan_ for you.

**Questioner:** I ask this question because many gurus do _shaktipat_.

**Dadashri:** That is fine. Even I know that they do it, but up to what point is it needed? Those gurus move out of the way after they do _shaktipat_ , they do not stay with you or give you support till the end. What good is that? The one that gives you support and accompanies you, is your guru.

**Questioner:** Should we go to a guru that performs miracles?

**Dadashri:** Anyone that has greed should go there and the guru will fulfill the greed. Anyone who wants the truth ( _Atma_ ) does not need to go there. By performing miracles, they are making people be still. But the real intellectuals will become skeptical the moment they see such things.

## How Far Does the Guru Take Us?

There are two paths: the _kramic_ path in which you progress one step at a time and the _Akram_ path, which is an elevator path. In the latter, you don't have to do anything. In the _kramic_ path which involves steps, however many gurus you make, those gurus will help you climb. There even the gurus make progress and so do the disciples. By doing this continuously, they reach the end. But we have a true guru and a true disciple at the point where one's vision changes towards the real. Unless one's vision changes to the reality, everything is at a kindergarten level. Yes of course there is attachment for the guru, but there should not be any infatuation. If there is infatuation, then it is very wrong. Infatuation is never acceptable!

**Questioner:** If one has attachment for the guru, does he stop us or not?

**Dadashri:** Your attachment should only be to the point of, "He is working for my salvation." Someone may say, "What if there is unwavering faith in the guru?" There is nothing wrong with that. That is good. The guru will take you at least as far as he has reached himself. Whomever we worship, they will take us as far as they have reached.

**Questioner:** Can they only take us as far as they have reached?

**Dadashri:** Yes, our scriptures say that they will take you only as far as they have reached. The guru will help you climb as many steps as he has climbed himself. If he has climbed ten steps and you have climbed seven, then he will help you climb up to the tenth step. What is more, there are millions of steps to climb. There are not just a few steps!

## More Than the Guru, the Disciple Excels

**Questioner:** The guru has not reached all the way but if the disciple has so much reverence for him, is he likely to overtake the guru?

**Dadashri:** Yes, but only some can! Not everyone reaches there. One has to find another guru further ahead. A person may also be so clever that if his mind turns in the right direction, he would climb the path; he will walk all the way there. But this would be an exception!

**Questioner:** Is it possible for the disciple to become liberated upon listening to the guru's sermons while the guru remains where he is?

**Dadashri:** Yes, it is possible. The guru stays in the same place while the disciple moves ahead.

**Questioner:** Does the effect of _punya_ work here?

**Dadashri:** Yes the effect of _punya_ alone! In fact, when the guru is teaching, many disciples think, "That cannot be!" Then they start to ask all kinds of questions. If a disciple starts to think, "I wonder what it is like." Then begins to think, "It must be like this," then _Gnan_ would immediately arise. If he doesn't question, then he will not attain _Gnan_.

**Questioner:** Did he find a _nimit_ for inciting the _vikalp_ – the doubt of, 'That cannot be'?

**Dadashri:** Yes, he found a _nimit_ ; it was simply that! So, when the time comes for (him to acquire) _Gnan_ he starts to think, "It must be like this. It cannot be like that so it must be like this." So the _punyas_ will make all kinds of changes. What can _punya_ not do? And for this (Atmagnan) you need _punya-anubandhi-punya_ (the highest of merit karma).

## Then Complete Purity Occurs

What kinds of interactions are there in the _kramic_ path? The Guru will tell his disciples to do as much penance as he does himself. Therefore, you have to undergo penance, renunciation and all kinds of testing. But because of the guru's grace, the disciple does not feel any anxieties or difficulties and the guru himself, carries on with the grace of his own guru. But there is no end to this process, which is why things continue to go on and on. All gurus cleanse themselves this way. If you have made one guru, then that guru will cleanse all your dirt but he will put his own dirt on you. Then if you find another guru, he will take that dirt out leaving behind his dirt. This is the succession of gurus.

When you use soap to clean a cloth, what does the soap do? It takes out the dirt in the cloth but leaves behind its own residue. Then who will remove the residue left behind by the soap? You use tinopal (cloth whitener), the tinopal will get rid of the stains left behind by the soap, but will its own residue. Then you have to look for something else. In this world, everything leaves behind its own dirt. How long can this go? It will go on until there is a purely transparent remedy!

You have gained some benefit because you do not have a guru overhead and you have come here. If you had made a guru, that guru would have left his 'dirt' on you. Who is the only one person that will not leave his dirt behind? The _Gnani Purush_! The _Gnani_ himself is free from dirt, he is in the pure form and he makes others pure. There is no other problem. The _Gnani_ does not add any new dirt. That is why the _Gnani Purush_ has a completely pure path, so when you ultimately find the _Gnani Purush_ , then all your dirt will be cleaned!

## A Conduct Deficiency in Disciples

In the _kramic_ path, the guru is at the head and he has two or three disciples with him, not more. Our scriptures have expounded on the fact that a true disciple will follow the guru step by step and there will be at least two or three such disciples. That path is very rigid, is it not? There they tell you to give away your dinner plate to someone else. Then the disciple will say, "No sahib, I cannot afford to do that. I will go back home." Who would stay there! Therefore, the writers of scriptures have said that behind each _Gnani_ of the _kramic_ path there are two or four disciples, not many more.

**Questioner:** Do the disciples not have even that much power of conduct _(charitrabud)_?

**Dadashri:** Yes, but where would they get that power from? What capabilities do they all have? If they are all eating and one of them does not get any _shrikand_ (sweet yoghurt pudding), then he will get upset. He has so much irritation in just one day and in just one meal. He keeps getting irritated. In fact, if he gets less _shrikand_ than others, even then he gets irritated. Where will these people get their _charitrabud_?

And one day I told everyone, "'If you are served something that you like, then you should taste it and immediately pass it on to someone else and take whatever you do not like to eat." Then what would happen?

**Questioner:** Everyone would walk away.

**Dadashri:** Yes they would walk away. "Good bye Dada," they will say! And later they will greet me by saying, _"Jai Shri Krishna"_ from afar, from the other side of the fence!!

What is it like for the gurus in the _karmic_ path? The gurus believe that the _vyavahar_ that they are doing is real and true and they are the doer of it. So this is what one must renounce. That is the way the worldly life is. When the worldly life is one of illusion and a person looks for knowledge in it, is he likely to find it? What do you think? Will he be able to find it?

**Questioner:** No.

**Dadashri:** The path is fundamentally wrong there! And that is why the _Gnanis_ of the _kramic_ path and their disciples are bogged down with worries. There is nothing but suffering. If you tell three disciples, "Today, learn the _charanvidhi_ by heart and learn this many _pados_ by heart," one of them will scratch his head wondering how will he accomplish it? He goes home and tries to learn it by heart, but since he cannot, he spends the entire night being restless. He reads and bickers. While he bickers, he feels a certain animosity towards the guru for giving him such a cumbersome task. If a disciple does not like doing what the guru commands, his feelings towards the guru become negative. Such is the _kramic_ path. Even the guru thinks to himself, "Today, if he does not carry out my orders, I am going to tell him off!" Now when the disciple goes to the guru, on the way there he feels scared, worrying about what the guru will say to him. So then why did you make him your guru in the first place? Just forget about it. You would have been better off the way you were. You should have stayed without a guru if you have so much fear of being told off! It would have been better if you did not have a guru, nevertheless you should take a little 'food' of being told off. Should you not taste a diet of scolding?

In the morning, all the disciples come to the meet the guru. Two of them have followed the guru's instructions, while one has not. They go and sit with the guru and the _sahib_ can tell just by looking at their faces which disciple failed to follow his instructions. It is written all over his face that he has done nothing. The _sahib_ gets frustrated in his mind and thinks, "He does not do anything." Since the disciple did not learn his assignment by heart, the guru rebukes him. The guru's eyes, which have turned red, remain that way. The guru keeps getting aggravated thinking, "This disciple is not likely to do anything." At the same time the disciple lives in fear of the guru. Now how and when can this be resolved? This is precisely why he keeps only three disciples; it is all he can handle. All others will come and do _darshan_ and leave.

In the _kramic_ path, irritation does not leave until the very end. Both the guru and the disciple have irritation! But because this irritation is a penance, there will be radiance on their faces. When we agitate (heat) impure gold, it will begin to slowly purify. Will you not begin to see the real gold?

## Difference Between the Guru and the Disciple

**Questioner:** Ordinarily is there not a difference between the guru and the disciple, or do they live as one?

**Dadashri:** If they lived as one, then they would both attain salvation. But here if the disciple were to break a cup, the guru would not refrain from getting aggravated. If the guru and the disciple were fortunate enough that they were able to live as one, then both of them would attain salvation. However, things do not remain that way. In fact, this world is such that one does not trust even himself, so how is he going to trust his disciples? And if the disciple happens to break something, the guru will glare at him with red angry eyes.

What anxieties and troubles! All day long they have anxieties! What is more, they cannot even ask their guru to rid them of their anxieties. In reality, you can even ask him, "Sahib, why are you getting irritated, having acquired a higher state as a guru?"

**Questioner:** But how can we ask the guru that? We cannot ask the guru such things.

**Dadashri:** What good is the guru if you cannot ask him that? If as a guru, you have differences with your disciples, would you not ask yourself what kind of a guru you are? If you cannot get along with one disciple then how will you deal with the world? You go around advising everyone, "Son, do not quarrel or fight," while you have left behind your family, there is no one around you that is dear to you but even then why do you quarrel with your disciples? You have not given birth to him so why are there _kashayas_ between the two of you? Blood relatives have _kashayas_ with each other. This poor boy is an outsider who has become your disciple and even here you continue to do _kashaya_?

What would a guru say if the disciple misplaced his book? He would criticize his disciple by saying, "You do not have any sense, you are not careful." Then how does the disciple respond? 'Do you think I ate the book? It must be here somewhere. If it is not in your sack then it must be under your bed.' But the disciple makes a statement like 'do you think I ate your book?' That is what he says. It is better to quarrel at home than to quarrel with a disciple. He would be better off being a disciple to his wife because even though she tells him off, she will at least feed him steaming fritters! We need some kind of independence don't we? What can you do when you find such a guru, when despite taking so much care of him he speaks so foolishly?

**Questioner:** Is there not a difference between a rebuke from the wife and that of the guru? The wife chastises for selfish reasons and the guru chastises out of unselfish motives.

**Dadashri:** The guru can never be unselfishness. There are no unselfish people in this world. They may appear unselfish but inconspicuously they are selfishly preparing for themselves. They are all selfish and everything is hollow (without substance). If one understands this just a little bit, he would recognize it.

Besides, disciples and guru are always quarreling with one another. They are both immersed in quarrels the all daylong. If we go to visit the guru and ask him what is wrong, he will say, "That man is no good, I have found a terrible disciple!" But the guru should not let the disciple know of such talks. Then if we ask the disciple, "Son what was all that about?" he will make the same claim. He will say that he has found a bad guru. Now, who is telling the truth here? Neither of them are at fault. It is because such a time cycle is upon us. It is because of this time cycle that all this has arisen, but whenever such a time cycle arrives, a _Gnani Purush_ is born!

No matter how good and capable a disciple is these are the types of gurus they encounter. What are the gurus of the kaliyug like? If they have a disciple that says "I am ignorant, I do not know anything," the guru will pick on that poor disciple and will not allow him to progress. Such gurus, until their death, keep finding faults with the disciples and harass them to the point of no return. Despite this, some inner power takes care of the disciple. However, just think of him as gunpowder, which without doubt, will explode one day.

In this time cycle, the disciples do not have the capacity to tolerate and the guru is not generous minded. The guru needs to be noble and generous; his mind needs to be noble and generous. He should have the capacity to take care of everything for the disciple.

## This is How Religion came to be Criticized!

If the disciple was to yell abuses at the guru and the guru remains calm, he would be called a (true) guru. The disciple is weak but can the guru be weak too? How do you feel about that? The guru cannot be weak can he? One day the disciple makes a mistake, says something wrong and so the guru will strike back at him, so how can the disciple abide by his _agnas_? The disciple will remain in the guru's agnas when he does not make any mistakes, even though the disciple does. How can the disciples remain in his _agnas_ if the guru makes mistakes himself? If the disciple sees just one fault in the guru, he will not stay in the guru's _agna_. But if despite this, he remains in the guru's _aagnas_ , then he will find salvation!

Everywhere they have become _swachhandi_ (to act on one's own wish). The disciple and the guru fail to respect each other! The disciple thinks, "The guru is short in common sense. I just need to think things through on my own. The guru can say whatever he wants but it is up to me whether to listen to him or not." Such is the state that has come to be between the disciple and guru everywhere. The guru gives instructions to the disciple, the disciple agrees but his actions are completely to the contrary. There is so much _swachhand_ everywhere. The disciple will say, 'Let the guru talk. He is a little crazy in the head'. This is what is happening everywhere. No one has yet been true to his word.

Otherwise, the relationship between a true guru and his disciple is so wonderful that whatever the guru says, the disciple is pleased to do. That is the kind of love there is. But today there is continued quarrelling between the two. The guru will tell the disciple to do something but the disciple will not do it. The entire day is spent quarrelling just the way a mother-in-law and a daughter-in-law does. The disciple thinks about running away, but where can the poor fellow escape? He ran away from home having spoilt his reputation, so where can he go? Who would keep him now? They would not even employ him. Now what can become of this? Now there is no importance or substance left in a guru or a disciple and the entire religion falls under criticism!

## The disciple only needs humility

There are so many disciples, in so many places because of the gurus. The burden of the disciple falls on the guru's head. The disciple is sustained on this basis and this is how their life proceeds. There are many true gurus in the world and they do carry the burden of their disciples, hence whatever they do is correct. There is no responsibility (on the part of the disciple) and peace prevails. You need some sort of support, don't you? A person cannot survive without any support.

**Questioner:** Then does a disciple not have to do anything there?

**Dadashri:** What can the poor disciple do? There would be no need for a guru if he could do it himself, would there? The disciple cannot do anything on his own. It is only through the grace of the guru that everything moves ahead. Man cannot do anything on his own.

**Questioner:** You need the grace of the guru, but surely the disciple must also make some contribution!

**Dadashri:** He does not have to do anything, except show humility. What is there to do in this world anyway? Just show humility. What else can he do? It is not as if you have to play with toys or wash idols of God, or anything like that.

**Questioner:** But does one not have to do anything? The guru has to do everything?

**Dadashri:** The guru does it for you. What do you have to do yourself?

**Questioner:** So how does the guru make the disciple reach his goal?

**Dadashri:** The guru has brought it (knowledeg) from _his_ guru and then he gives it to the disciple. Everything has been handed down. So whatever the guru gives, the disciple should take.

**Questioner:** Many gurus say that you must study and then you will receive it.

**Dadashri:** Yes, so many people say that very same thing! What else do they say? "Do this, do that, do that." Can illusion (ignorance about the reality of the universe) ever be removed by _doing_ things? If you have 'to do' things exactly per the guru's instructions, it is not possible, is it? Someone says, "Tell the truth today," but you cannot tell the truth can you? Even the books tell you to do that. Do books not speak also? Nothing can come out of that can it? The books tell you to be honest. But has anyone done that? For hundreds of thousands of years they have done just this (their actions have been contrary to instructions), they have not done anything else. Destruction, destruction, destruction is all they have done.

## One can only give the experience of whatever he experiences himself

When you go to a guru, you do not have to obey any rules or perform any rituals. If you have to, then simply tell him, "You go ahead and do all that. How am I going do it? Why would I have come to you if I could do it myself?" Now why is it that a disciple is not able to do it? It is because the one telling him to do it does not do it himself. Whenever the guru himself abides by something, his disciple too will do it without fail. Otherwise, everything is just a farce. Then the guru says, "You do not have any strength. You are not doing it." Why does the guru look for strength in the disciple when he should be looking for strength in himself? I have told everyone that my strength is needed and that there was no need for their own strength. Everywhere else, it is just the opposite! Wherever one establishes himself as a guru, he needs his own strength. Instead, they goad other by saying, "You are not doing anything!" Arey! If I could do it, why would I bother coming here? Why would I take a beating in your place? This kind of nonsense continues everywhere because people of this kaliyug time cycle do not have any understanding. Otherwise, why don't the gurus give answers as I do? If the guru were clean, the disciple would without doubt be clean too. However, the fact that this does not happen means that there is something lacking in the guru. Yes, the gurus do not have any substance; this I you very candidly.

What do I mean when I say 'without substance'? If a guru secretly smokes, you (as a disciple) will not be able to stop either. Otherwise, why is it not possible? It must happen exactly as you want. This used to be the custom of all the gurus in the past. What is a guru? A guru is someone who practices everything he preaches so others can do the same naturally. Do you understand that?

**Questioner:** The idea that we would automatically practice what the guru practices, is difficult for me to conceive.

**Dadashri:** In that case, the books are comparatively better than a guru without substance. Don't the books too advice, 'Do this, do that, do the other.'? So the books are better than the living beings. What is more, you are expected to prostrate before the living gurus.

**Questioner:** That helps us become humble, does it not?

**Dadashri:** What good is that humbleness? What good does it do to go to a place your entire life and yet acquire nothing? What good is the water that does not even wet our clothes? So all this is useless, it is a waste of time and energy!

Did you not understand? If I tell you to give up smoking, but you cannot do so, then you should know that the fault is mine; that inherently is a fault within me. In spite of all your efforts you still cannot give it up, what is the reason behind it? The reason is my fault; it is because some fault lies in the one giving you directives.

If a person with _vachanbud_ (power of speech) says for you to do something, then it would be okay. Otherwise, when the power of speech is lacking, people do not progress. It is simply a habit that one has acquired of telling others to do things.

## Such capability will manage everything

There should be a rule everywhere that the guru should be the one doing everything. Why do people go to a guru? Here the gurus cannot do anything and so they put the responsibility on others and the disciples by telling them to do it. That is why our people have started believing this. The gurus reprimand them and people accept it. You should not have to listen to such reprimands. But these gurus are constantly after the disciples, constantly chiding them about what to do and how to do it.

The state of all seekers is humble and gentle; not all seekers are strong. So what more can a weak person exhibit? He would only show his weakness. You have to say, "Sahib, why don't you just do for me whatever you are asking me to do? As a guru you are in a great position, yet are you asking me to do it for you? I am crippled and weak. You must help me stand up. Should you be the one carrying me on your shoulders or do I have to carry you on mine?" Should you not say this to the guru? But these soft people of our country will say, "Yes sahib, I will do it tomorrow," any time the guru tells them to do something. Why don't you speak up clearly? Can you not speak in this manner? Why are you not saying anything? Whose side am I favoring when I say all this?

**Questioner:** You are speaking for us.

**Dadashri:** Yes, you should say, "Sahib you are strong and I am weak. I am willing to do whatever you ask of me but I am not capable of doing it so you must do it for me and if you do not, then I will simply go to another shop (guru). Please tell me either way if you have the capability, so that I can seek another guru if need be. If it is not possible for you, then I will go elsewhere and seek another guru."

So whom would you call a guru? It is someone who does not tell you to do anything; _that_ is a guru. Ordinary people call themselves gurus. They even claim, "You can climb the mountain even if you are crippled." He also tells the disciple to carry him (guru) on his (disciple) shoulders. Arey! You are telling me this when you yourself are asking me to put you on my shoulders and walk? I am the one who is crippled, yet you are asking me to carry you on my shoulders? Is this not a contradiction? What do you think?

**Questioner:** Does that mean that the disciple should not take on any trouble and that the guru should be the one to take all the troubles?

**Dadashri:** Yes, the guru should be the one doing everything. If you had to do it, then you should ask him what he is going to do. Tell him that if he has nothing to do except give orders, then instead of obeying his orders, you will go home and obey your wife's orders. Tell him that even your wife is capable of consulting a book and telling you what to do and that just as he can consult the books and scriptures and tell you to do things, your wife too, can do the same. Explain to him that it is not acceptable for him to tell you what to do and that he must help you do something; that you will distribute the work evenly; that whatever you cannot do yourself, he must do and whatever you can do, you will do. And if the Gurus respond, "Why should I do it?" then you can ask him "how will I benefit from doing all this?" Should you not question the guru this way?

**Questioner:** But what if the seeker is unreasonable, then what?

**Dadashri:** You do not have to look at the other person. The guru must be good. People are like that anyway; people are not capable. They will say exactly this: "Sahib I am not capable, which is why I have come to you. Is it for me to even do anything?" And if he says, "You will have to do it," then he is not a guru. They should reason with the guru by saying, "Look, if I had to do it, why would I come to you? Why would I have sought out a powerful person such as you? Why don't you at least think about that! You are capable, and I am weak. I cannot do it, and that is why I have come to you. If I have to do anything, then what does that make you? It makes you weak! How can one call you capable? A capable person can do anything."

The gurus have no substance whatsoever and that is why people have problems and burden. The gurus have not substance and that is why they find faults with people. If a husband has no substance, he will find faults with his wife. There is a popular worldly saying that a weak husband becomes brave with his wife. Similarly, these weak gurus become brave with their disciples. They make their disciple's lives miserable with their rebukes of 'You cannot do anything'. If this is what you do as a guru, why do you declare yourself as a 'great guru'? Why do you needlessly rebuke your disciples? The poor man has come to you because he is unhappy and on top of that, you are telling him off! At home, his wife tells him of and here you tell him off. When does all this come to an end?

A guru is someone who does not chastise his disciple. He protects and supports his disciples. How can you call these gurus of the kaliyug, 'gurus'? All day long they keep pushing their disciples around. That is not the way!

During the time of the Lord, no guru would say, "You will have to do this much," but today these gurus say exactly that. And the disciples keep insisting, "Sahib, I can't do anything, I can't do anything." Arey! You will turn into a stone if you keep saying, "I can't do anything". This can happen because your thoughts become you. You will be whatever you project yourself to be. If you believe that you cannot do anything, then will you not become like that? This is something people do not understand that is why everything continues without substance. Any guru that will not do things for you is a burdensome guru. For that matter even when you go to a doctor, would you not have to tell him, "I am ill and I don't know what is wrong. You make me well again", should you not say this to even a doctor?

**Questioner:** Yes I should.

**Dadashri:** That is why the guru must do it for you. He will teach you everything. Then he will tell you to read, but he will teach you everything. When can these poor working people with wives, children, and jobs get anything done? The guru on the other hand has a lot of strength, he has infinite strength that he can do everything. The guru should assure the disciple that there is nothing to fear and that he, being the guru, should be called on (by the disciple) if he does not understand something. I myself have said (to everyone), "None of you have to do anything. I have to do it. I have to get rid of whatever weaknesses you may have."

## Dada has given away a profound and incomprehensible Gnan

What am I saying? When I tell everyone to walk along side of me, they say, "No Dada, you are a step ahead." I tell them that they are correct when they say that, but I insist that they walk beside me. I tell them "I do not mean to make you my disciple. I mean to make you God. You truly are _bhagwan_ and I mean to give you your seat. I am telling you to become exactly like me! Become resplendent. Become what I wish you to be!

I have not kept anything with me; I have given it all to you. I have not kept anything in my pocket. Whatever I have, I have given to you, I have not held anything back. Everything I have given is in a state of Absolute. I want nothing from you. I have come to give my whole _Gnan_ to you. That is why I have made everything open here. That is why it is written, "Dada is very naive, he has given away a profound and incomprehensible _Gnan._ "

No one would give away this _Gnan_ would they? Hey! Let me give away this Gnan so people can find peace and coolness. What will I gain by keeping it all to myself? Should I conceal it and go to sleep?

The general rule is that anything in this world that is given away will decrease, but only this given _Gnan_ will increase! This is the nature. Only _Gnan_! Nothing else. Everything else will decrease. One person asked me why I disclose everything I know instead of holding some knowledge back. I told him that this _Gnan_ increases by giving. Both mine, and his increases so what am I losing out? I do not what to hold back the _Gnan_ and be a guru and have people 'massage my legs' (become subservient to me). Such a situation would be like that of the British who kept all knowledge concealed. They even used to charge a consultation fee for their expert advice. That is why all this knowledge will drown away. Our people had the custom of giving. They would give generously. They would give the knowledge of Ayurveda. They gave the knowledge of Astrology. They also gave spiritual knowledge about the soul. They gave everything freely.

This _Gnan_ has not been kept a secret. Here, in the worldly life, the gurus hold a little back. They say, "The disciple is crooked, so what will I do when he turns on me and opposes me?" This is because the guru wants worldly happiness. Eating, drinking, he wants everything else. When his legs hurt, the disciple will massage them. If his disciple were to become just like him and if his (disciple) legs were hurting and he (the guru) did not massage them for him, what would happen? So the gurus would hold back certain knowledge.

That is why the gurus believe that they should keep ten percent for themselves and give the rest. They have acquired seventy percent of knowledge, out of which they keep ten percent, while I give away the whole ninety-five percent that I have acquired. If it agrees with you i.e. if you are able to accept it then so be it, otherwise it will you will get a 'diarrhea' (you will not be able to digest it), but at least you will gain some benefit form it.

Nowadays some gurus hold back what they know and give something different to the disciples and the disciples in return think 'we are not getting anything yet but we will receive it eventually'. The guru will give them the knowledge gradually but why not give it away so that the disciples can benefit? But no one gives, do they! Are greedy people likely to give? Anyone that has any greed for worldly things will never completely and openly be able to give the knowledge that he has. Out of greed, he will keep it for himself.

**Questioner:** But the disciples he finds are also avaricious. They want to take everything away does they not?

**Dadashri:** The disciples are avaricious anyway. What I mean to say is that the disciple is generally greedy. That poor fellow has the greed of, 'it would be good if I could get this Gnan.' His greed is to gain gnan from the guru; there is that much greed on his part. But is the guru not greedy also? How can we afford to have that? Not only does he not progress himself but he also makes it difficult for his disciple to do so. This is what is happening in India at the present time.

## This is How I Will Settle Things!

There are no other problems if the guru is good. To find a pure guru in this time cycle, a guru that is not business-minded is considered tremendous _punya_. What do the gurus do otherwise? They will find the disciple's weaknesses and then play on them, making life miserable for him. Whom can the poor disciple disclose his weakness to if he cannot even disclose them to his guru?

**Questioner:** Right now, there are certain people whom others refer to as 'gurus', but in reality they are actually exploiting people.

**Dadashri:** Maybe one or two gurus are real. And if they are straightforward, then they are not very capable. Deceitful gurus are very clever and they can have all kinds of guises.

**Questioner** : Any man, who wants to be free, takes support of a guru, but then he is not able to free himself from that guru. Therefore it is also necessary to be free from the guru, don't you think so?

**Dadashri:** Yes. I came across a businessman in Surat who asked me to save him from his guru, who told him that he (guru) would destroy him (disciple). He was afraid of what might happen to him and came to me for help. I asked him, "What sort of dealing do you have with him that he used such strong language towards you? Do you have some connections with him? He can only speak this way if there is some connection." He then told me, "My guru says that unless I send him 50,000 rupees, he will destroy me." I asked him if he dealt in money with his guru or engaged in a business of lending money with him. He told me that there was no lending of money but that his guru would tell him that unless he gave him money, things would go bad for him. So out of fear, the poor man would give him money. At the time he came to me for help, he had lost 125, 000 rupees and on top of that he was to give 50,000 more. Because he did not have the means to give, the guru told him that he would destroy him.

I told him to come with me; I told him that I would protect him. Then I said, "You will not be destroyed. I will lend a hand against whatever your guru does to you, but from now on, do not send anything there. If you feel love towards the guru, then send something. If you feel an overwhelming love then send something, but do not send anything out of fear. Otherwise, the guru will become even more demanding. Don't be afraid. Don't think negatively about your guru. This guru has taken away from you because of a mistake on your part. He has not taken because of his own fault."

The guru took away everything because of the disciple's own mistake, is that not so? It is because he had some greed within him. Surely he must have had some greed in him in order to keep such a guru! That is why he would give money to him, is that not true? Therefore, it is because of his own greed that he has been deceived. And these people (gurus) will not let go of anything that comes into their hands. These are people of the kaliyug; they are not concerned about reincarnating in the lower life form or what may happen to them as a consequence of their actions. They just have to find a victim. But what does the guru say? "He is my disciple," is that not what they say? At least it is good they call him a disciple and not a victim or a prey; like hunters do!

Then I asked him if he had done anything in the name of his guru. He replied "Yes, I went and threw his photographs I used for worship in the Tapi River. He was bothering me so much that I became irritated, so I threw them away." But why did you worship those photographs in the first place? And after doing so why did you throw them into the Tapi River? The guru did not tell you to worship the photos and then throw them in the river. You should have not worshipped them to being with. If you worshipped him, the liability is yours, _you_ have done wrong. One day you worship the pictures and the following day you throw them in the water? You yourself are the worshipper and you are the eradicator too. Is that not a sin? So then why were you worshipping it? And if you need to eradicate it, then make sure you do a _viddhi_ before you do so. This is not acceptable because it is _hinsa_ (aggression) to worship a photo one day and throw it away in the river, the next. If we know that a picture is a picture of God and still we throw it in the river, then we are liable for it. It would not be a problem if it were done in ignorance.

**Questioner:** It was because of the guru's action that he had to resort to doing that, is that not so? Did the guru not become a _nimit_ in that? Is the guru not at fault?

**Dadashri:** The guru can do whatever he likes but you must not make a mistake. The karma of your mistakes will apply to you and the karma of his mistakes will apply to him. If you insult me and shout abuses at me, and I get angry and shout back, then the karma will bind to me. I have no need to do such things do I? You bind karma. If you are wealthy; if you have the power and the strength then bind them. I do not have that kind of strength and nor do I have that kind of wealth. If one had that kind of strength then he would bind karma, is that not so? That is why we cannot say that. If this dog bites you, does that mean that you should bite the dog back? The dog is likely to bite anyway!

**Questioner:** How is it a sin to throw away photographs of such a guru?

**Dadashri:** You should not speak this way; you cannot say that. God resides in that guru. He may be bad, but God lives within him! You should look upon him as being innocent. It is because of your previous sins that you found such a guru and became trapped. If not, you would not find such a guru. It is based upon an account of give and take from your past life that you met this particular guru. If not then why did you meet? No one else but you came across him. Why has he come to you?

Later, I did _viddhi_ on him and told him not to speak badly or have ill thoughts or enmity towards the guru. I made him do _pratikraman_ in his mind and taught him everything. I paved the way for that man and for the photos he threw in the river. I showed him what kind of a _viddhi_ he had to do. After that he became settled.

Then for twelve months he did not go to the guru. Eventually when the guru realized that someone had kept him back, he wrote a letter saying, "Come back, I will not bother you in any way." The habit he (guru) had of taking undue advantage of his disciples had hurt only him; his own greed had hurt him! Now this man does not go there. Is a fish that escaped, likely to enter the net again? He who is greedy should not be made a guru. If the guru tells you, 'go away from here', then you should tell him, 'Sahib, as you wish. I do have a home and my wife is a 'guru' anyway!'

## If Not You Can Make Your Wife Your Guru!

If you don't find it easy to make a guru but you feel uneasy being without one, then you should tell your wife, "You just sit down. I will treat you like a guru." Don't look at her face, tell her to turn around. After all this idol is a living idol!

Yes, so make your wife your guru. What do you want to do? Are you not married yet?

**Questioner:** I am married.

**Dadashri:** So you must make her your guru. At least she is from your home. She will stay with you no matter what.

**Questioner:** What good does that do? Don't we need a _Gnani_?

**Dadashri:** What are the gurus out there going to give you? Besides every man has made his wife a guru. It is just that no man would admit it!

**Questioner:** But one cannot say that in front of everyone!

**Dadashri:** No one says anything, but I understand people's nature. I even tell young men that they appear as good young men because their 'guru' (wife) has not yet come. Just wait till she comes! There is nothing wrong in you bringing home a wife. But you should have sense enough that you don't take advantage of the situation. When she cooks you good food; she makes fritters, _jalebees_ , and _ladoos_ etc., for you, then why not make her your guru? If you are not impressed with any gurus outside; if you do not come across a guru that captures your heart then just tell your wife, "Come, you are my guru and I am your guru." At least there will be some happines here! She will be happy and so will you. What is the point of making someone you are not impressed with, your guru? Why not make your wife your guru, what's wrong with that? God resides in her, so then it is immaterial whether she is educated or not.

So if you do not find a good guru, the you can make your wife your guru in the end! This is because it is better to do things after consulting a 'guru'. If one does not ask, then one is likely to go astray (due to svacchand). Therefore you should consult your wife, ask her, "what do you think? I will do as you tell me to." The wife in turn should make her husband, her guru. She should tell him, "I will do whatever you tell me to." It is better to do this instead of making these frauds your guru, at least there is no fraud at home! So you should establish your wife as your guru. You need at least one guru, do you not?

Despite finding a guru

**Questioner:** I have accepted one saint as my _gurudev_. So should I do _jaap_ in his name or in someone else's?

**Dadashri:** If you feel a sense of incompleteness then you can take some other name and recite it. But do you feel any kind of incompleteness? No. So there is no anger, pride, attachment, and greed in you, is there?

**Questioner:** That happens a lot inside.

**Dadashri:** What about worries?

**Questioner:** The worries are there but they are comparatively lesser.

**Dadashri:** If you continue to have worries, what is the point of reciting that person's name? It is meaningless! What is the point of reciting that name if you experience anger, pride, attachment, and greed? Others have anger, pride, attachment, and greed and so do you, therefore your work did not get accomplished.

So now change your guru. For how long do you want to hang on to that one shop? If you want to stay there then stay there, but I am giving you this advice. There is no problem if your work (spiritual progress) is getting done there. If you stay in one place then there is no need to meddle with another place.

If there are differences of opinion, then what did the _gurudev_ do for you? A _gurudev_ is the one who relieves all suffering.

**Questioner:** Everything you say about the guru is well and good, but here I myself, with my inner voice have accepted him as my guru.

**Dadashri:** That is fine; there is nothing wrong with that. But if you have taken the (his) medicine for twelve years and have not been cured of your sickness, then let the doctor and his medicine stay at his home! For infinite lifetimes, one has done nothing but this and hence one has to keep wandering!

**Questioner:** But in all this, is the guru at fault or am I at fault?

**Dadashri:** It is the guru's fault! Right now I have with me some sixty thousand people and should anyone of them get hurt, it would be my fault. Why would it be the fault of these poor people? They are unhappy which is why they have come to me in the first place and if they do not get happiness then it is my fault.

Because the gurus cannot make others happy they say, "You are crooked and that is why all this is happening." The lawyer says to his client, "Your karma are bad and that is why things did not work out."

Otherwise, what should a guru be like? A guru should be someone that takes away your every suffering! How can you call any other a guru?

**Questioner:** But I feel as though it is the fault of my _prakruti_.

**Dadashri:** There is no problem with the _prakruti_. No matter what your _prakruti_ is like, the guru will embrace it. These gurus that proclaim themselves as gurus, do so in vain. People go to any old guru and make helpless requests to them. People disregard the fact that there is discomfort (within) from the presence of their own anger, pride, attachment, and greed there. What good are such gurus? But our people have this bad habit of remaining in whatever shop they visit. They do not look to see whether their anger, pride, attachment, and greed have diminished or not. They do not look to see whether their weaknesses have gone, or whether their differences of opinion has decreased, their worries have decreased, or their anxieties and external worries have decreased. If you ask them, they will tell you that nothing has decreased. Then let it go, forget about it, just get out of that shop! Can you not understand this much?

These are all mistakes on the part of the gurus themselves. None of them will admit to it. I have come to tell you the truth. I do not have differences with anyone nor do I have any problems with anyone! Nevertheless, no guru will admit to having faults, because their standard is not up to par. They proclaim themselves as gurus and overpower the public!

## The Real Guru is the One Who Gets Rid of Conflicts!

A guru is someone who would give us such an understanding that conflicts will not occur, not even during an entire month. And if you experience conflicts, then you should understand that you have not found your guru. What is the purpose of having a guru when you still have mental torment and restlessness? You have to say to the guru, "Sahib, it seems that your mental torment and restlessness have not gone, otherwise why would my mental torment and restlessness not go? If it is possible for mine to go then I will come back to you." If not then you should say, _"Ram, Ram, Jai sat chit anand."_ You have wandered around for endless lifetimes going in and out of such shops. And if nothing is being done, then you should tell your guru, 'Sahib you are a great man, but nothing is happening to me. So if you have a solution please use it. If not then we will be on our way." Should you not speak frankly? Similarly, when you go to a shop you would say, "If you do not have any silk goods then we will go elsewhere else. Don't give us linen instead."

A guru can only be called a 'guru' when you have worshipped him with an understanding and you have surrendered all your ownership. Otherwise, how can you call him a guru? He should remove your darkness (ignorance of reality) and if you walk the road he shows you, then your anger, pride, attachment, and greed will decrease, your dissension will lessen, and you will not experience worries or conflicts at all. If you have conflict then he cannot be a guru, he is a phoney!

## Do not Waste Your Human Life on a Single Guru!

People get stuck after having just one guru; you should not. If you are not satisfied then change your guru. Where you feel a pleasing quiescence of the mind, where you do not experience dissatisfaction, where the mind wants to remain still, that is where you should get stuck. But do not get stuck believing as others have done. Many lifetimes have been ruined in this way. The human birth does not come very often and you are wasting it if you sit and stagnate. By searching in this way, one day you will find the right guru. Will you not? You want to find the main thing. He who searches will find it. Where a person does not want to look and takes the approach, "Oh well! We will go where our friends go," everything is ruined.

## Guru in the worldly life: Gnani in the real – spiritual life.

**Questioner:** The person we have accepted to be our guru, is not a _Gnani_. You are considered a _Gnani_. So do we keep both the guru and the _Gnani_ or do we forget the guru?

**Dadashri:** Keep your guru. You need a guru for everything. If he is a worldly guru, then he would be considered beneficial, because he looks out for you. If you face any difficulties in your worldly life, you have to go to him. You need a worldly guru. You should not push him aside. The _Gnani Purush_ shows you the instruments for your liberation; he does not meddle with _vyavahar_ \- your worldly life. Therefore, the _Gnani Purush_ is for _moksha_. Your guru and the _Gnani_ have nothing to do with each other.

You are not to let go of that guru. You must keep that guru. How would you conduct your _vyavahar_ without a guru? From the _Gnani Purush_ you can learn about _nischayaa_ (Self), if you want to. The other guru will help you in your worldly life, he will give help in advance that you need for your understanding, if there are any difficulties he will advice you. He will free you from negative deeds and guide you towards good deeds. The _Gnani_ on the other hand takes you above bad or good deeds; he makes you transcend them both, and leads you towards liberation. Do you understand? The gurus of _vyavahar_ teach us worldly religion and duties, to do what is right and discard all that is bad, they make you understand matters of good and bad. The worldly life will always be there so you must keep that guru, and if you want to go to _moksha,_ that is what the _Gnani Purush_ is for. The two are separate. The _Gnani Purush_ sides with the Lord.

## You Cannot Forget the Obligation to Your Guru!

**Questioner:** Before meeting you, if we have a guru, what should we do?

**Dadashri:** Then you should to go to him, however it is not mandatory that you go. Go if you want to and don't go if you don't want to. You should go so that he does not feel hurt. You should have respect for him. Here after taking _'Gnan'_ if someone asks me whether or not he should let go of his guru, I would tell him no because it was him guru's power that has brought him this far. Because of the guru, people can live with some decency. If the guru is not there, then there is no decency. You can tell the guru, "I have found a _Gnani Purush_. I go to do his _darshan_." Some people even bring their gurus to me. The guru too wants _moksha,_ does he not?

**Questioner:** What happens once we have a guru and then we leave him?

**Dadashri:** But it is not necessary to leave your guru. What can you accomplish by leaving him? And why would I tell you to leave him? Why would I involve myself in such a mess? I would be liable if something wrong were to happen. Now you have to appease the guru and work with him. It is possible do so. If you are not happy with the work he does, then you can take less work out of him. But what is wrong with just casually visiting him once in a while?

**Questioner:** What if someone has made a guru and then he meets you. Then the guru becomes like 'tea' and you like the 'jalebi' (meaning: one finds even tea with sugar bland after one eats a jalebi!) What do we do about that?

**Dadashri:** If the situations becomes like that of 'tea and jalebi', it is a different matter. That is natural. If I tell you, "Let him (the guru) go," then he will become awkward, so you should not let him go. If things become bland, let them be, but you must drop him. You should go and do his _darshan_ occasionally so that he does not feel hurt. If he knows that you are going elsewhere, you should tell him, "I have acquired this benefit solely because of worshiping you. You have put me on this road!" This will make him happy. What is the path of the bliss of the Self, like? It is a path where one will never forget even a person that offered him a cup of tea. What do you think?

**Questioner:** I did not understand that is why I ask this question.

**Dadashri:** That is very well. It is best to make sure through asking. Make sure of everything by asking.

That is why you must not snub him. If you have made someone your guru, it is very wrong to snub him. You did take at least something from him, did you not? He must have helped you to some extent. He must have helped you climb a step or two, which is why you must consider this an obligation to him. So whatever you have attained thus far is of course an obligation. You cannot forget a person who has benefited you! So you should not leave your guru. You should do his _darshan_. If you snub him, it will hurt him and that will put you at fault. If you have obliged me in some way and then I left you, that would be a fault on my part. That is why you cannot leave him; you should always be obliged to him. A man is not a real man if he forgets the slightest obligation.

So let your guru be. You should keep your guru. You should not move your guru aside. It is not worth pushing any guru aside. If you try to push them away, then you would be considered an adversary of the person you had once leaned on for support. There is no need to be an opponent.

## From the perspective of a disciple

**Questioner:** So what kind of a guru should we go to, in order to progress towards the _atma_?

**Dadashri:** A guru should be such that your mind would not spoil towards him your whole life. Your mind will feel content whenever you look at him. If you find such a guru then go to him.

**Questioner:** If we have negative thoughts we should immediately change our intent, but to what degree does the guru's grace help?

**Dadashri:** The guru's grace can help you tremendously. But your intent and love towards him should be accordingly. Your feelings towards the guru should be such that you do not like it when the guru is away and that you feel restless being away from him. These are the kind of feelings you should have for the guru; you should miss his absence.

The weaker the guru's _gnan_ , the longer it takes his disciple. Exact and precise _gnan_ will yield immediate results. It does not matter that I have not attained _keval gnan_ (absolute perfect knowledge) but I have attained _bhed gnan_ (the knowledge of separation between the real and the realtive, discriminative knowledge) and that can give immediate results.

## The Guru's Love, Rajipo!

**Questioner:** When is a guru pleased?

**Dadashri:** If you remain and abide by his _aagnas_ , then he is pleased. You would recognize that he is pleased. Day and night, the guru will surround you with love.

**Questioner:** We need to have a certain conduct in order to please the guru, however, if the guru witnesses certain flaws or weaknesses in our conduct, he is also likely to become disappointed in us, is he not?

**Dadashri:** To become pleased means never to become disappointed. The disciple is bound to make mistakes, but the (true) guru will not become displeased.

## Guru's extraordinary gift

**Questioner:** Since the spiritual ( _adhyatmic_ ) guru is desire-less then how can you give him _gurudakshina_ (gift especially for a guru)?

**Dadashri:** By following his _agnas_. If you follow his _agnas_ , your gift to him will reach him. If you follow the five _agnas_ that I give you, then your gift to me, will reach me.

**Questioner:** If a guru that gives _gnan_ is desire-less then how can you settle with him with a gift in return?

**Dadashri:** If the guru is desire-less then you can serve him, offer physical services, run errands for him; you can pay him back in this way. There are many other ways. There are other ways to do service for those who are desire-less.

## Antaryami Guru – the guru that is within

**Questioner:** Can we worship both the external guru and the inner guru at the same time?

**Dadashri:** Yes, if the inner guru keeps showing you the path then you do not need the external one.

**Questioner:** One's effort ( _purusharth_ ) can be more if a guru is in the physical form (embodied).

**Dadashri:** Yes, if the guru is living and present then you will be able to do _purushaarth_ right away. The _antaryami_ (inner guru) will give you a great deal of guidance; that status is very high. It is very difficult for the inner guru (the _atma_ ) to manifest. Really, the external guru will help you more.

Otherwise make your _atma_ your guru; it is called _'shuddhatma'_. You tell him, "O _shuddhatma bhagwan,_ you guide me", and he will.

## Who Does Not Need A Guru?

**Questioner:** If we become exactly self-realized from you, then we do not need a guru do we?

**Dadashri:** Then you do not need a guru! Who has no need of a guru? A _Gnani Purush_ such as myself has no need for a guru. The one who can see all his own faults, does not need a guru.

**Questioner:** To keep absolute awareness in the _Gnan_ that you have given us, do we need the guru's _satsang_ or his presence or proximity?

**Dadashri:** Yes, all that is necessary. You need to follow the five _agnas_. Everything is necessary.

**Questioner:** Then the guru is necessary, is he not?

**Dadashri:** The Guru is not necessary. Who is the guru when you become the _sadhya_ i.e. when you become that which you worship). A _sadhak_ (the one who worships) has a guru. I have met sixty thousand people. They do not need to make a guru.

**Questioner:** Do they need _satsang_?

**Dadashri:** Yes they need _satsang_ and they also need to follow the five _agnas_.

**Questioner:** Is it necessary for us to come here everyday when you are here?

**Dadashri:** While I am here, people get the benefit of it. And if they do not come everyday but come once a month, even then it does not matter.

**Questioner:** In your absence is this kind of awareness necessary or not? Is satsang needed or not?

**Dadashri:** Of course it is necessary! But do as much as you can; do however much you can. That way you will benefit more.

**Questioner:** When you go abroad, it is very empty here. No one here gets together.

**Dadashri:** You just feel that it is empty. None of us feel that it is empty. Dada Bhagwan stays with you throughout the entire day, constantly for twenty-four hours. He stays with you even when I am abroad! Just as Lord Krishna stayed with the _gopis_ constantly, that is how he stays!

## That is What We Call a Disciple!

Did you understand everything clearly or not? If you understand clearly, then you can come to a solution. If not then how can you resolve anything? I have shown you the same clarification with which I have understood; the same clarification with which I have been liberated, completely liberated, and the path I created, that is the very path I have shown you.

**Questioner:** But how would an outsider understand this?

**Dadashri:** It is not for outsiders to understand. This is for you to understand. It is not something that you can make others understand. Whatever is digested is digested! Not everyone will be able to understand. Everyone must have that much capacity. They need to have the ability to digest this do they not? And there is no telling about these people. There is no order to their minds; they become irritated and fight wherever they go. The people before them were calmer!

Otherwise, these people have all become weary from their wanderings! At work the boss rebukes him, at home his wife rebukes him. Only a certain number of people are saved from all this, but right now everywhere one is beaten down. Why do people go to the guru nowadays? They go because of their greed, because they want to fix their problems. "If something happens to me then the guru will bestow his blessings on me and I will be fine," they believe.

**Questioner:** So what kind of qualities should the disciple have in order to make a guru?

**Dadashri:** How can there be good qualities in a disciple during these times? Who is worthy of being called a disciple? He would be someone whose belief would not be shaken even if the guru acts crazy. When the guru acts crazy, even then the disciple does not lose faith in him, that is the quality of a disciple. Does that ever happen to you?

**Questioner:** As yet that kind of situation has not occurred.

**Dadashri:** What would you do if it were to occur?

Yes when you place your faith on your guru, do it in such a way that you will never have to take it away after you have placed it. If not, you should not place that faith in the first place.

Just yesterday people looked upon him as their guru, but when the guru started acting crazy, they shout obscenities at him. They lash out with all sorts of abuses. Allaya! Why did you believe in him in the first place? And if you once believed him, then stop abusing him. Until now you take care of a tree, you give it water and nurtured it and then you cut it down! What is going to become of you? Whatever has become of the guru, let it be but what will become of you?

**Questioner:** Does this happen because we have put the guru on a pedestal and then we are disappointed in him?

**Dadashri:** Either you don't make one your guru or if you do, then even if he starts to act crazy, your perception of him should not spoil.

## You Can Never See Faults of the Guru!

People will find faults with the guru in just five day, questioning, "Why do you do this?" Allaya! Are you pointing out the guru's mistakes? Do people not tend to do this?

**Questioner:** You must never point out a guru's mistake!

**Dadashri:** Yes but they cannot refrain from doing so. These people belong to time cycle of kaliyug! That is why they go to a lower life form. At the present time, gurus are not perfect. Where would you find a perfect guru in the present time cycle? These gurus too, are the gurus of Kaliyug!

If your guru were to make a mistake, you should not leave him. This is because everything is an effect of karma. Can you not understand this? Why are you looking at something else? Just do _namaskar_ and revere his position! You do not have to see what he does. At that time his past karma are unfolding and that is what he is enduring. So how does it concern you? Why do you need to look at what he is doing? Just because he has cramps in his stomach, does it mean that his status as a guru is gone? Moreover, if one day he vomits does that mean he is no longer a guru? Just as you have your unfolding karma, would he not have the same? What do you think?

**Questioner:** That is right.

**Dadashri:** If he has stomach cramps, should all the disciples go away? If right now I had stomach cramps, would you all go away? So do not commit such a fault, do not become an opponent. Have you become an opponent of the one you used to worship and follow? Then what sort of a state will I be in? That _guru-pad_ (the status of a guru) should not go; do not look at him in any other way. But today so many people look at their gurus from different perspectives, don't they?

## The bottom line is do not destroy reverence

If this (guru making a mistake) happens to your guru of forty years, even then you must not allow any changes to overcome you. You should maintain the same perception about him, that you always had. If not, then it would be a terrible crime. I am telling you, if you make a guru, then be very careful. If he turns out to be wild and crazy, then you must not look at the wildness and craziness in him. You should look upon him the same way you did the day you made him your guru. If I worship a guru, then no matter what he does, whether he beats me, drinks alcohol, or eats meat, I would not stop worshipping him. This is because when I saw him for the first time, he was different and today he displays a different kind of behavior because he is under the control of his _prakruti_ ; what is more, it is all happening against his own wishes. This is what you must understand immediately. Once you have chosen and certified a diamond, then what? Does it then turn into glass? No, it remains a diamond.

I will give you an example of this. Say I plant a tree myself and then I have to build a railway line. If that tree becomes an obstruction to the railway line, I would not allow that tree to be cut down. I would say that I planted, watered, and nurtured it, so turn the course of the railway, but don't cut down this tree. In the same token if I have worshipped one _maharaj_ , then whatever he does, my perception of him will not change. The reason being, he is controlled by his karma. Whatever you see is dependent upon karma. I would understand that his karma are changing. Therefore, you cannot look at this in any other way. Listen! If you wanted to cut down the tree, you should not have grown it in the first place and if you want to grow it then don't cut it. This has been my principle from the beginning! What is your principle? When the time comes should you cut it down quickly?

Therefore, whomever you praise, you should not desecrate him. If you have praised him for forty years and in the forty-first year, you desecrate him, then you will have lost the worth of all the forty years of reverence and on top of that, you bind a karmic fault.

Do not worship anyone and if you do, then your reverence for him, should not break. The essence of this world is that it should not break. This is all you need to understand.

## Who is at Fault in this?

**Questioner:** But in this world, whomever we consider praiseworthy, as long as they behave in a way that is acceptable to us, that relationship will last but if the other person does something even slightly wrong, then our relationship will spoil!

**Dadashri:** Yes, it becomes devastated. Not only does it spoil, but he also becomes an adversary to the other person.

**Questioner:** Whatever _bhaav_ and feelings he had for that person goes away.

**Dadashri:** It goes away and what is more, he becomes an opponent.

**Questioner:** Then whose fault is it?

**Dadashri:** The one who sees negatively, is the one at fault! There is nothing wrong in this world. The world is for seeing and knowing, what else? What are you calling right and wrong? It is your intellect within that is deceiving you.

**Questioner:** But the one who sees things as right or wrong is the one at fault, is that not what you are saying?

**Dadashri:** Yes, it is the fault of the intellect ( _buddhi_ ). You should understand that the intellect makes you see things as positive, negative, right, or wrong. Therefore, you must remain separate from it. As long as the intellect is there, it will surely do that, but you should understand whose fault it is. If your eyes happen to see something negative, you should realize that the seeing was done through the eyes.

## The Same Perception Even When Delirious

If you have worshipped a _Gnani Purush_ or a guru or anyone else for that matter, then if ever he becomes delirious and bites you, hits you, or even swears at you, you must not see a single fault in him. Are people likely to remain calm if someone yells abuses at them? Therefore, there is no such understanding. That guru is the one and the same that you worshipped but the change is in his _prakruti_. Regardless of who the person may be, it does not take long for their _prakruti_ to become delirious. The reason being the body is made up of _kapha_ , _vayu,_ and _pitta._ If the _kapha, vayu,_ or _pitta_ increases within, a person becomes delirious! (These _tridosha_ or humors govern all biological, psychological, and physio-pathological functions of the body, mind, and consciousness. They act as basic constituents and protective barriers for the body in its normal physiological condition; when out of balance, they contribute to disease processes.)

## Guru is the Fifth Danger

What are the _jivas_ (the living beings) of this fifth time cycle like? They are _jivas_ that have criticized in their previous lifetimes. Therefore, if due to a fault in the _prakruti_ , the guru makes a mistake, people will criticize him. Once you have made a guru, if you are going to criticize him, if your weakness is going to get in the way, then it is better that you do not make one. Otherwise, there is a terrible liability in doing so. After making someone your guru, do not criticize him. No matter what the guru is like, worship him until the end. If you cannot worship him then absolutely do not criticize him, because to look at the fault of the guru is the fifth danger. That is why they teach, "Be careful, the guru is the fifth danger, so if you look at the guru's fault, know that you will fail."

A man comes and tells me that his guru had told him to leave and not to go back to him and since then he has not had the desire to go back. So I explained to him that it did not matter whether he goes back or not, but he should ask for forgiveness from his guru. "When you ask for forgiveness, you become free from the world. You may have asked for forgiveness verbally. Now, ask for forgiveness through your mind and do your _pratikraman_ at home according to whatever I have written on this piece of paper." So I wrote down the _pratikraman viddhi_ for him.

Do not fall into gossip about the guru you have made, because everything is in the hands of unfolding karma. Man cannot do anything. Now, to not raise objections is also wrong, but you must raise them with _vitaragata_ i.e. detachment or without raag-dwesh, not by throwing dirt. You can say, "It should not be this way," but do it superficially, because the guru is in the hands of the unfolding of his karma. Besides, what are you going to do by finding faults in him? What do you think?

**Questioner:** Yes, that is right.

**Dadashri:** Then you should be thankful to the guru because he pulled you out of these boundaries (he made you progress), so do not forget that. How can you forget the deeds of your guru? So go and visit him. After making someone your guru, you should not spoil your _bhaav_ for him at all. That is all you need to be cautious about.

## You Should Not Even Think Negatively About Your Guru

If a guru says to his disciple, "You have no sense," the disciple will go away. He goes away because he feels insulted. If he were to retaliate and say to the guru, "Your brain does not work and you have become my guru?" things would get worse.

You were bowing down to him yesterday and today you are throwing insults at him? You can never do that to the one you have been worshipping. Do not worship him again if you are going to attack him.

If your guru says that you are not to go anywhere from here after eleven, you should not do so even if your mind becomes restless. Some people remain completely in compliance with the guru's instruction. But the gurus today are so weak and have shortcomings, that the disciples, out of frustration will say, "This guru is useless." Once a disciple says this, all efforts and achievements on both sides go to waste.

If a guru has done a lot of work, say for ninety-nine years he has done good things but if for just six months he does something wrong, his disciple can ruin everything.

Therefore, if one does not remain sincere to the guru, he can ruin everything in no time. The reason being, that the relationship of a guru-disciple is like a gunpowder factory - nothing else is like that. Only what the guru has is explosive. You may have done everything, but this 'explosive' comes with a very heavy price. Therefore be very careful, be aware because even a small spark will destroy ninety-nine years worth of work. And in addition to that you will get burnt.

## That is where you need to find a solution

One man told me, "There is a great _Sant Purusha_ that I go to see and whose _darshan_ I do. But lately I am having bad thoughts about him." When I asked him what kind of thoughts, he said, "I have thoughts like he is worthless and wicked." I asked him if he likes having such thoughts? He told me that he did not and then asked me how he could stop them. He asked if there was a solution. What would you do here? Who is at fault here? Is the guru at fault?

**Questioner** : The fault lies with the one who has bad thoughts.

**Dadashri** Yes, so what did I tell him? I told him, "Realize that negative thoughts such as, 'He is worthless and wicked,' are not in your control. At that time, you should say, 'He is very beneficial to me.' If the mind says, 'He is very bad,' just say, 'He is very beneficial to me.' This way it will be taking away through subtraction all the additions you have done and bring everything down to a zero. This is the solution I am showing you."

## The Khojas (a sect of Shi'a Ismaili branch of Islam) have the true guru worship

I have observed one thing amongst the _Khojas_ ; they all worship the same guru and claim him to be the greatest guru. When one guru went to America and got married, followers of his faith started to call him worthless. All disciples got upset and said that he should not commit such a crime. Allya! Are you calling your guru worthless? Someone you have been worshipping until now? So they asked me if whether such a guru was not considered worthless? I told them, "Go ask these _Khojas_. I find that their disciples are the greatest in the entire world. When their guru married a foreigner, even then his disciples celebrated the occasion. We on the other hand, get upset even when our guru marries within his own culture. His followers will tell you, "How can we object to that. He has all the right to do so. We should celebrate immediately." His followers became very happy and celebrated with a procession. You should not do as your guru does but do as he tells you.

If anyone in the entire world has the knowledge of how to make a guru, it is the _Khojas_. If your guru were to get married or for that matter even if he interfered with someone, you would beat him up. The _Khojas_ on the other hand celebrated even when their guru married a European woman. That is what we call a disciple. You should not look for faults in a guru. Look for faults in everyone else, but not in the guru. It is a grave liability to do so. Otherwise, do not make anyone your guru.

I am not asking you to worship your guru but do not talk negatively about your guru. Indeed if you were to worship him, your work would be accomplished, however people do not have the capacity to worship in the right way. What I am saying is this, make a crazy person your guru, the craziest one you can find, but if you remain sincere to him, you will be blessed. All your _kashayas_ will come to an end if you remain sincere to a crazy guru. But you have to understand at least this much. A person's intellect should reach this level, should it not? That is why idols of stone have been placed for you, knowing the kind of people there are, so that they cannot look for faults in them. But alas people find faults even in an idol of stone. These people are thinkers and so they are likely to find faults in a guru. Instead of looking at their own faults, they look for faults in their guru. That is how 'alert' they are.

I give you a guarantee that it is possible to achieve _moksha_ within just three more lives if you stand by your guru, no matter how crazy he may be. But that guru must be living. That is why people have started keeping idols because they could not afford to have a living guru.

So what I am saying is do not destroy what you have decided upon. It is not an ordinary or an easy thing to find a guru. So make sure before you assign a guru.

## Otherwise Make a Pot Your Guru

**Questioner:** When a person makes someone his guru, he does not have a complete understanding at the time.

**Dadashri** : But when he becomes a 'sack of understanding', does that mean he can call the guru worthless? Instead, it is better to adopt what Bhim (character in the Ramayan) had done. Do not adopt what others do. Every time Bhim had to bow to a guru, he would get the shivers, he felt insulted. So what solutions did he come up with? He thought, "I cannot afford to have these gurus. All my brothers sit here unaffected, but my ego starts to jump around the moment I see them. I start having negative thoughts. I must have a guru because otherwise what predicament will I be in without one?" So he found a solution for it.

He buried a clay pot upside down in the ground, painted it black and wrote on it in red ink, ' _Namo Neminathaya'_. (I pay obeisance to the Lord Neminath). Neminath was black so he painted the pot black and then he worshipped it. Yes, that pot was the guru and he, the disciple.

Here, where the guru was not directly visible to him, he did not feel shy, whereas he felt shy in the presence of a living guru. He would not bow to him yet he continued to worship the black pot buried in the ground. Although he began worshiping this way, he still he reaped benefits from it. That is because nothing here would become poisonous. Even here in this situation if you were to feel happy and elated, you will attain salvation.

So Bhim would go and sit there from dawn till sunset. This guru was better because at least he would not get upset or have any problems. And if he ever got offended, all he had to do was dig up the pot and throw it away. But the faith that you put in a person can kill you. There is God within the person whereas here there is merely your projection of God in the pot.

**Questioner** : Did he get any benefit out of making the pot his guru?

**Dadashri** : He did benefit for sure. He did not do it directly but at least he did he it indirectly. Did he not bow down to Lord Neminath? Here parents tell their small children to bow down to Dadaji but children would not do that. Then when they insist, the children eventually turn around and bow down. What does that suggest? It is the ego. That is how even Bhim had an ego and so he worshipped the pot in this way. Still, he definitely received benefits in return. This actually happened. Lord Neminath was alive at that time.

**Question** : So he was _pratyaksha_ (present)!

**Dadashri** : Yes he was _pratyaksha_.

**Questioner** : So in the end he worshipped him.

**Dadashri** : Yes, but he worshipped Lord Neminath through instillation and projection of his name.

**Questioner** : But worshipping the pot, is it not an inanimate object?

**Dadashri** : It is like this: everything in this world that you see through your eyes, is all inanimate; nothing is animate ( _chetan_ ).

**Questioner** : A pot cannot give answers to our questions like you do, can it?

**Dadashri** : A pot will not give you the answer but do not make someone your guru if you are going to let him down or if you are going to ruin things for him. Make him your guru only if you are going to remain forthright. I give you good advice, and then it is up to you what you do with it. There is grave danger if you stop half way through. It is better to kill yourself than to hurt a guru.

## Grave Danger in Uprooting a Guru

Do not consider a guru as a guru and if you do, then do not turn your back on him. Use a pot if you do not like him. The pot will not have any problems. Worship it because your _buddhi_ will not be active there and your work will get done. Now who would be so lucky that he would not allow his intellect to interfere? How can one understand all this?

**Questioner** : At the time we make someone our guru, he appears to be very good, he appears to have good attributes; he appears incomparable. But what should we do when he does not turn out according to our expectations, after we make him our guru?

**Dadashri** : Instead of that, you should not establish him as a guru. It is better to use a pot instead. At least you will not have to get rid of it some day. The pot will not create problems for you, will it? It will not do much, but it will give you some help.

**Questioner** : The guru has been established, but the intellect does not go right away and therefore we see negativity in him. What should we do about that?

**Dadashri** : You will see the negative, but you should not do anything wrong once you have established him as a guru. You have to tell your _buddhi_ , "What I say goes and not what you say. Now we are competitors; there is you and there is me."

It is very dangerous to uproot him once you have made him your guru. People in India are paying the price for such mistakes. One does not know how to establish a guru. They establish one today and uproot him tomorrow. This is not acceptable. Why do you have to interfere with whatever the guru is doing after having made him your guru? At one time you were satisfied and made him your guru because you did not see any problems with him. Now you are finding faults with him? Those who have faulted others have never gone to _moksha_ , they have gone to hell.

## You Cannot Find Faults With the Guru Later On

So look for a good guru, someone who will appeal to your heart. You need a guru that will make your heart happy. A guru that will still your heart forever, a guru over whom you will never spoil your mind; make such a person your guru. Make the one with whom you will feel peaceful forever, your guru; you will never have negative feelings towards him after making him a guru. Otherwise, you will have differences with him later. If differences occur after having accepted him, do not allow those differences. If, once you have accepted him you start to judge him by thinking, "Some guru he turned out to be!" then that is not acceptable. Tell your _buddhi_ , "He cannot turn out any different. He is the same person that you saw before."

So what did I say? Make someone your guru that your eyes will accept. Then one day if that guru gets upset with you, do not look at that. You should look at him the same way you did when you accepted him. Did you not approve him? What a woman saw in her husband the day she approved him as her husband, is the same face she will hang on to even if his face becomes ruined because of small pox. What else can she do? Only then can her life go on, how else is she to pass her days? Similarly, you should see the guru in the same light if you want to get rid of your _svacchhand_. You should not look for faults in your guru. Once you make a guru, that is it! Live your life without looking at a single fault of his. Otherwise, you can go somewhere else. Therefore find one that is acceptable to you and then do not find faults in him. But people do not understand this point and then they make gurus.

## Faith is What Really Bears Fruits

**Questioner** : If we have faith in a guru regardless of what he is like, will that faith bear fruits?

**Dadashri** : Your faith will bear fruits only if you do not dislike him even when he acts crazy.

**Questioner** : So if we wish, can we excel beyond our guru?

**Dadashri** : You certainly could, however, only if you do not spoil your inner intention. There is a living God within that guru. It worked for Bhim even when he made a pot his guru. It is your faith that works, is it not? A person who has a habit of faulting others will go down if he does that when his guru says something wrong. If you have the strength to take care of your guru, then no matter what crazy things he does or whether he has a delirious fever, if you take care of him, it is worth making him a guru. But people do not put up with the guru until the end. They do not know how to do that, do they?

**Questioner** : If we place complete faith even in an unworthy person, is it likely to bring forth benefits?

**Dadashri** : Why not? But you should not change after establishing it.

What is all this? Can I tell you the truth? Can I say it openly? It is not the guru, but your faith alone, that gives you the fruit. Whoever the guru may be, it is your faith that gives you the fruit. Not even this idol gives you the fruits; it is your faith that will bear fruits. The stronger your faith, the greater the fruit.

It is like this: faith comes and goes in this world. The _Gnani Purush_ is the only one who is the idol of faith. Everyone will have faith in him. As soon as you see or hear him, you develop faith in him. The _Gnani Purush_ is considered an idol of faith. He can bless you. Even then, it is your faith that gives you the fruit.

## Does One Have to Keep Faith or Does it come naturally?

**Questioner** : I have closely tested every religion, but I do not have any faith in any of them. Why is that? What should I do about it?

**Dadashri** : There has to be such a place where you can have faith, should there not be? Until then you have to make sure whether the faith is in something beneficial or harmful. There is no problem if that faith is in something beneficial or if it is becoming strong in it. Your faith should not lie in harmful things.

**Questioner** : I do not have any faith in any person or religion whatsoever. What is the reason behind this? Even sitting in the _satsang_ of elevated saints, I do not experience any peace, so who is at fault here?

**Dadashri** : If you are expecting to find pure gold somewhere and instead you find imitation gold, you will not have any faith, will you? Then also a man once bitten will be twice as shy the next time around!

**Questioner** : Should one have faith in a guru?

**Dadashri** : No. Faith does not have to be kept; it has to come naturally. It is wrong to keep faith. Faith has to come naturally.

**Questioner** : If we keep more faith in the guru, do we achieve more through that faith?

**Dadashri** : But the thing is keeping faith does not work. Faith has to come naturally.

**Questioner** : For the most part everywhere you go they tell you, "Keep faith."

**Dadashri** : And I am telling you not to keep faith. Do not keep faith in me at all. Do not keep faith anywhere. Keep faith when you sit in a bus or a car but not in people. Faith has to be natural.

**Questioner** : How?

**Dadashri** : A stamp will stick only if there is glue on it right? Will it stick without glue? When I was twenty-five years old, I had gone to a certain guru. He told me, "You will understand all this if you keep faith in me," so I asked "For how long?" He replied, "For six months." I said to him, "Sir, it does not come even now! Apply such a glue so that my 'stamp' will stick. Here I am trying to stick it; I am trying to make my faith stick but it keeps disintegrating. Now you tell me something that will make faith come to me." What do you think? Should you have to keep faith or should it come to you naturally?

**Questioner** : It should come naturally.

**Dadashri** : Yes, naturally. When I told him to say something, he responded, "How can that be so? _You_ have to keep faith. Do all these people not keep faith?" I told him doing that did not suit me. For how long can a faith without 'glue,' stick? You need glue to make it stick immediately and not have it come off ever again. The paper will tear, but it will not come off. If he tells you that your 'glue' is not enough, then you should tell him, "No, the stamp is mine, but you have to apply the glue. If you do not apply the glue, the stamp comes off even before he stamps it, and I end up paying the penalty. Paste the glue on the stamp and if you have run out of glue, make a paste out of wheat flour. Therefore, faith is something that remains once it is established. It cannot be removed. One can get tired of stamping, but it will not come off.

## Faith Will Surely Come There

**Questioner** : When faith comes, on what basis does it come?

**Dadashri** : It comes based on his (guru's) conduct. There is power behind his conduct. You do not need to establish faith where one's speech, conduct, and humility wins over your mind; it will definitely be established on its own. I tell people not to keep any faith here, but still their faith becomes established. And in other places, their faith goes away immediately with very little effort. Therefore, real faith will be established when one's speech, conduct, and humility wins over your mind.

**Questioner** : In order for faith to be established, is speech the most important aspect?

**Dadashri** : When he starts to speak, faith will come to you that very moment and you will fell, 'Oh ho ho! He says such wonderful things!' Your work is done if faith becomes established on his words. It is not acceptable to have faith one time and not the next. You should have faith in him every time you hear him. His speech is first class. Even if he is dark and has scars from chicken pox, if his speech is 'first class', realize that faith will be established there.

**Questioner** : What else is required for faith to come?

**Dadashri** : That he is so awe-inspiring that the mere sight of him will make you feel at peace. We can tell him, "It is alright if you do not say anything, but show me such beauty and charm that faith will come to me." But here there is no physical beauty either, so how can faith come to anyone? Your physique's karma should be such that I will be attracted to you immediately. But here I do not feel a pull towards you at all. But you do not effuse any love or affection. Even if you had an attractive face, it would effuse some love or affection from me. But neither your face nor your speech is attractive. Therefore, you do not have any grandeur about you and you do not know even how to speak. That is not acceptable here. If _Gnan_ (knowledge) is attractive, it will produce faith. Here my _Gnan_ is attractive and therefore it will invoke faith; there is no other way. And elsewhere even if one has oratory skills, it will suffice.

Now even if he (guru) does not know how to speak and you feel at peace, you should realize that it is worth having faith in him. Every time you are agitated and you go to him and feel at peace, you should realize that it is worth having faith in him. If the atmosphere is pure, know that this man is pure and that it is here that faith will develop.

## A seeker cannot not be like this

Faith should become so firmly established that it does not go away, no matter how hard you try to remove it. Faith that is forced upon you will go away and faith that you have lost has to be forced back on to you. This is what happens everywhere in this world. People's faith will remain for six months in one place, two years in another place, and five years some other place, but it will go away again.

Therefore, do not keep faith in this world. You will be trapped whenever you do. Remain there only if faith comes one its own. Faith should come to you on its own. For how long will faith that you have to 'keep', last?

One Sheth tells me, "I have tremendous faith in the man (guru)." I asked him, "Why do you have faith in him? Naturally you will have faith in him if he calls out to you giving you a lot of importance in front of everyone!" Would a true seeker allow this kind of faith? I was a seeker. I had told my guru, "Speak in a way that my faith becomes entrenched. I do not like it when you sweet-talk me and say things like, 'Welcome Ambalalbhai, you are such a big contractor, you are like this, and you are like that.' It is meaningless when you try to establish faith in me by talking nicely to me. Curse me if you have to but say something so that I can have faith." Otherwise, people will naturally start to have faith when the guru calls out to them and welcomes them nicely. They will think, "It is nice here."

**Questioner** : But educated thinkers will catch on right away, will they not?

**Dadashri** : Yes, the educated ones will be able to tell right away that it is all wrong. So how long will people put up with wrong things?

The _'bapji'_ (guru) welcomes them nicely in order to establish their faith. "Welcome _sheth_ , welcome." He gives a lot of importance to this _sheth_ , but why not anyone else? It's because he feels, "This _sheth_ might be useful some day. If I need some reading glasses or something else, he will be useful." Now the _sheth_ trades in the black market, and _bapji_ knows about this but he thinks, "What is it to me? If he trades in the black market, he will have to pay for it, but I will need glasses someday, won't I?" What does the _sheth_ think? He is thinking, "There is no problem. See _bapji_ gives me a lot of respect, does he not? I have not become bad." Now when will he believe he has turned bad? If _bapji_ tells him, "Aey! If you want to do this kind of business, then don't come here." Then he will think, "I will have to change the way I do business otherwise _bapji_ will not let me in." How long can such faith last? It will last for six to twelve months and then it will go way.

## There is no liberation without this type of Faith

So the kind of faith you need is one that will come despite my shouting abuse at you. Faith will come because of _maan_ (self-pride and importance; when the guru gives importance, it feeds your _maan_ ), but it will go away after a while. Do you understand? If, once your faith has been established, it does not go away, even if your guru were to yell abuses at you or beat you, that is what we call 'unshakable faith'. Can this be possible? What is more, there is no _moksha_ without having this kind of faith. I guarantee you this.

It can never be called faith if you go away from the guru, because you found it inconvenient to be with him. In that case are you looking for your own convenience or _moksha_? If you go away because you find it to be inconvenient, can you call that faith? What do you think? Faith means to surrender everything.

## 'Here' faith _will_ come

I am not telling you to keep faith in me, because I am not a man that asks people to have faith. To the fifty thousand or so people that come here to _satsang_ , I tell them not to keep faith in what I say. I tell everyone not to believe a single word I say and do not keep faith in me. Accept what I say only if your _atma_ accepts it, otherwise I am not inclined towards making you accept what I say.

Without fail, you will begin to have faith because of my speech. When you come to know everything, your faith will come. Faith does not come because people have never heard the truth and once people hear the truth, faith will come without a doubt. Even if you tell them not to have faith, it will come, because a man is not willing to let go of the truth, even if you insult him. Even if you decide that you do not want to keep faith, here your faith will come. If you claim, "What was wrong with what I was doing before?" even then faith in me will come back. That is why one is ready to break the faith that he had for such a long time, in so many lifetimes. Why is that? Because he becomes convinced that until now everything he had heard and seen has turned out to be wrong. When everything that you have done so far proves to be wrong, do you not feel that all your efforts were in vain?

**Questioner** : Yes.

**Dadashri** : Because faith will come and adhere to the truth, it has no choice but stick.

## Obstacles impede faith

Nevertheless, faith does not come to many people. What is the reason for this? It is because they have created barriers. Faith will not come to only the greedy businessmen and those who are egotistical about knowing. Otherwise, workers and laborers will have faith right away because they do not have any arrogance about knowing and they do not have greed over their bank balances. When a person does not have these two shortcomings, they will be able to recognize the truth right away. These two disease impede people's progress; they create obstacles of 'I know'. Otherwise, faith in the _Gnani Purush_ will come very easily. People have created obstacles; they have built 'partition walls.' These clever people are very thorough; they have become perfect!

Every man that is living and whose intellect has developed and has the ability to understand through a little of this intellect, will have to accept my words without fail. This is because my words are such that they will shatter all the veils within and directly reach the soul within. They are words that will awaken the bliss of the soul. Therefore, anyone that has a soul within, whether he is a Vaishanv or a Jain, if they listen to what I say, will have faith, without doubt. However, if they want to be awkward and speak contrary, that is a different matter. There are awkward people, are there not? They talk awkwardly even if they know and understand, don't they? Are there any awkward people in India? Have you seen such people?

**Questioner** : Most of the people are like that.

**Dadashri** : That awkwardness has to be removed. If someone deliberately creates differences of opinions (with me), I tell them, "Your soul agrees with what I am saying, but you are talking awkwardly." When I tell them this, they will understand and agree with me. But why do people not refrain from talking awkwardly? Because they have brought that kind of baggage with them. Faith will not come to those who are awkward. Otherwise, the _Gnani_ _Purush_ is considered a living idol of faith.

## Gnani is a depiction of faith

The _Gnani Purush_ is such that the moment you set eyes on him, faith will come to you. He is an idol of faith and faith will come without fail. He is called ' _Shraadheya'_ (one in whom faith will become instilled). He is this for the entire world. This current time is so odd that one can never find a living idol of faith. Occasionally, such a being takes birth on this planet. An idol of faith means you will be overcome with faith the moment you set eyes on him. You do not have to ask anything, faith will come automatically. The scriptures have called such a person, 'an idol of faith'. Occasionally and rarely such a being is to be found and he will accomplish the work (of the world's salvation). This incarnation of mine is such that people will have faith in me, without fail.

All we need is an idol of faith. Even the most worthless person will have faith immediately upon looking into the face of such a person. The moment he looks upon the idol of faith, his entire inner intentions and state will turn around. Such an idol of faith is born once in a while. The _Tirthankar_ Lords used to be such. So what should one (the guru) become like? He should become like the idol of faith. Why will faith not come to people? He (the guru) himself is the reason why. Then he will claim, "What can I do when people don't keep faith?" Now the guru that has no substance will keep telling people to have faith in him. Hey you! What about the fact that faith never comes to people where you are concerned? _You_ become like the idol of faith so that people will begin to have faith in you the moment they see you.

## So how can one have vairaag (detachment towards the worldly life)?

**Questioner** : Often when about twenty-five people or so sit together to listen to a sermon, five of them are touched by it while the other twenty remain 'dry'. Who is at fault here, the listener or the preacher?

**Dadashri** : How can the poor listener be at fault here? The one giving the sermon is at fault. The listeners are that way to begin with anyway. They openly declare, "Sir, I don't know anything and that is why I have come to you." But the preachers have found a way to escape and save themselves. They will say, "You are not doing (this or that)..." They cannot speak this way. People come to you for help and you say thins in response? The fault lies with the preachers. This situation is not like that of the schools where the children don't do any work. Here people come for the benefit of their soul and they do not have any bad intentions. They do not come here expecting worldly or material things. Therefore, the preachers are the ones who have to do everything.

I tell everyone, "If you are not able to do anything, then I am to be blamed. You are not at fault." If you come to me asking me to make 'repairs' and the repairs are not done, then who is at fault?

**Questioner** : Twenty-five of them are sitting and five of them benefit and twenty do not, then is it not the guru's fault?

**Dadashri** : The guru is to be blamed.

**Questioner** : What is his mistake?

**Dadashri** : He does not have _charitrabud_ (power of conduct). They have to take care of their _charitrabud_. If you put a block of ice here at night, whether people understand it or not, everyone will feel its effect, won't they? Therefore we need _charitrabud_. But here these gurus don't have _charitrabud_ and that is why they get irritated with their disciples; that is not acceptable, is it? People are the way they are; they have come to you seeking guidance, you cannot have any quarrels or conflict with them.

## Experience is a different thing altogether

**Questioner** : To acquire _gnan_ through one's own experience or to acquire it by listening to someone's sermon, can you explain the difference between the two?

**Dadashri** : As far as sermons are concerned, they are the same as what we read in the scriptures, but it is a different thing if the one giving the sermon has _vachanbud_ (power in his speech), such that his words will reach deep within you and remain there for months on end. Otherwise, the sermons of today are such that they enter through one ear and go out the other; there is no value in these sermons. There is no difference between their sermons and the scriptures.

We especially need sermons such that the words you hear will keep ringing in your ears months after we hear them. Those sermons are regarded as vitamins for the soul. Such sermons are possible once in a while. However, the guru needs to have _chartitrabud_ ; his conduct should have power behind it. He should be a _sheelvan_ (someone with pure moral conduct); it should be someone in whom the _kashaya_ have become weak and dull.

## There is compassion behind words

All these people who give sermons tell us, "Do this, do that," but when it comes down to them, they get irritated. They keep giving sermons. In reality who has the right to give sermons? One who does not get irritated has the right to give sermons. However, these people are such that they will strike back the moment you say something against them. "I am someone who knows a lot. I am like this and I am like that." They speak under the influence of illusion, "I am...I am...I am..." and this is precisely why there is no progress.

This is the path of the _vitarag_ lords. This path is full of liabilities. To utter even a single word (of spirituality) carries tremendous liability. Currently all preachers carry a tremendous liability. But people do not or understand this and that is why they give sermons. You should check and test yourself to see whether you are an _oopdeshak_ (a preacher). An _oopdeshak_ should be free from _artadhyan_ and _raudradhyan_ (adverse forms of meditation). It does not matter if one has not attained _shukla dhyan_ (ability to remain in the pure state of the self) because his _dharma dhyan_ (a state void of _artadhyan_ and _raudradhyan_ ) is increasing. However if he continues to experience _artadhyan_ and _raudradhyan_ , then the liability is his. The Lord has said that, as long as you have a stock of anger, pride, attachment, and greed within you do not preach to anyone.

This is why I say when you give lectures, in that you simply have the right to study (the scriptures), you do not have the right to give _oopdesh_ (preach). If in spite of this you preach, then because you preach in the presence of your _kashayas_ , you will go to hell. The one who listens to you will not go to hell. Despite being a _Gnani_ , I have to speak sternly in this way. There is so much compassion behind what I am saying. What reason does a _Gnani_ have to become stern? For which reasons, does the one who is constantly in the state of bliss, constantly in the state of liberation, need to speak such stern words? Despite being a _Gnani_ I have to say this "beware! Keep studying" You can tell people, "I am studying the scriptures and you can listen." But you cannot preach in the presence of _kashayas_.

## Vachanbud – power of speech is needed, is it not?

You will not learn anything if I continue to preach to you, but you will learn easily by observing my conduct. Therefore, _oopdesh_ (preaching) does not work here and your speech goes to waste. However, I still cannot say that it is wrong. Therefore, no one is wrong, but there is no use for it; it is meaningless. What do you call speech that has no power of words? You can tell him, "Your words are wrong. Why should it go to waste? Your words should grow within, why do they not?" How old are the words? Old words will not produce results. Speech has to be pure; its words have to have power of acceptance. You should tell him, "Say something that will have some effect in me." The power of speech is the main thing. What good is it if there is no power behind a human's speech?

A person is considered a _Guru_ , when his speech has so much power that it produces results in us when he speaks. But here they preach to us saying, "Get rid of your anger, pride, attachment, and greed," when they still have anger, pride, attachment, and greed within them. That is why everything has been ruined, has it not? Out of one hundred gurus, you may find two to five who are good. The power of words means whatever one speaks with his mouth, starts to take effect within the listener. What good is it when there is no such power in words?

When I was young, I used to say, "You are preaching the same things that are written in books, so what is the difference between you and the books?" On the contrary, the books are better, at least I do not have to bow down to them the way I have to you. Say something that will produce some kind of results within, so that my _chit_ will remain in it." What do they say? They tell us, "Do this, do this, and do this." "Do this," but do what? I cannot do it and you keep telling me to do it. You need power in your words. One is considered a guru, when his words have some effect on the other person; otherwise, he is not a guru. The _Gnani_ _Purush_ will give you _moksha_ but when is one considered a guru? It is when he has _vachanbud_ (power in words) because there is no deceit or lying in his words. Do you understand what I am saying?

**Questioner** : Yes, yes.

**Dadashri** : These talks are very profound but how are people to understand them? These businesses (guru-disciple) will continue to run. Let them run. Why should we meddle in them? They run because of the current time cycle.

Otherwise, books say the same thing you (guru) are saying. So what is the difference between the two of you? If as a living person, you cannot do anything, then this book is better. Should there not be at least some power there? There may not be power for acquiring liberation, but should there not be power for worldly dealings? Show us something that will give us peace in this worldly life. Peace will come to us if you yourself are at peace. How can we have peace when you yourself do not have it?

## But Teach Them in This Way

A Guru will tell you to be moral and sincere. Hey! Why don't _you_ become moral first? If you become moral yourself, there will be no need to tell me to be so. If you tell me this after you become moral yourself, then I too will become moral. I will become moral just by looking at you. We become what we see, but he (guru) himself has not become moral yet.

You see the _vitaragta_ (detachment to everything worldly) in me, and once you see it, everything will happen automatically, because if I show you how to do it personally, then you will be able to adjust. One can become pure only if I am pure. Therefore, there should be absolute purity.

I do not just tell you to become moral, but I show you how. I do not tell you how to do it. I tell you and show you how to become moral, while others have done what? They simply say, "Here, this is the question and this is the answer." Allaya! Why don't you _show_ me the method? The questions and the answers are in the books already but why don't you show me the method to achieve that? But as yet, there has not been anyone. India would not be in the state it is in today if there had been such a person. Look at the state of India today!

## Attributes of a True Guru

**Questioner** : How would I know who the right guru is for me?

**Dadashri** : It is one who has no _buddhi_ (intellect) and no ownership of the body. If he has ownership of his body and you have ownership of yours, it will not work because the two of you will collide.

The one who satisfies your mind, is your guru. If you cannot find such a guru, then what will you do with any other guru?

You need a guru who can help you in every way. Therefore, it is someone who will help you even in your financial difficulties. If your guru has some money, he will tell you, "Son, here take this. I have some money." That is how it should be. Guru means to help; he who would take better care of you than your own parents is considered a true guru, but on the contrary, here the gurus takes money from you.

The guru should be someone who lives for others and not for himself.

The guru should be physically strong and handsome. People will get tired even if he is not attractive. They will say, "Why did we end up sitting here with him? The other guru was better looking." Make him a guru only if you are not going to compare him with anyone else. Be careful when you make someone your guru, otherwise, there is no need to make a guru simply for the sake of having one.

He should not have desires and he should not be completely without desires. Would he have any desires if he were to be completely without desire? No. He should be without desire in matters concerning the non-self, or worldly matters and he should be full of desires in matters concerning the Self. Yes, he is not completely without desire.

The guru should be someone who does not want anything; he does not want money or sex. Then there is no problem with massaging his legs or head. You can serve him in that way.

On the path of liberation, one's guru should be an _Atmagnani_ (Self-realized). It is because of the absence of such Self-realized gurus that everything is ruined.

## That is When You Can Say You Found a Guru

So I did not listen to anyone (when it came to gurus), because I did not see any benefit in having one (guru). I did not see any luster on their faces. Show me five people who have improved because of a guru or show me someone in whom the weaknesses of anger, pride, attachment and greed have gone away or in whom differences of opinions have been reduced because of a guru.

**Questioner** : How capable are we in recognizing whether we have found our true guru?

**Dadashri** : When your differences and conflicts with your wife go away, you should realize that you have found a real guru, or else you will continue to have differences even with your wife. You will continue to have conflicts with your wife everyday. What good is it when no lasting change occurs after having met a guru?

One's conflict at home does not go away, one's weakness does not go away and yet he claims he has found a guru. You have met a guru if the conflicts and discord at home come to and end, otherwise how can you say that you have met a guru? Generally, people will try to pull you on their side and that is how they live life. They make you turn the ego that was on one side on to another side. If you meet a guru for six months, he will at least teach you something so that conflicts in your home will go away. Not only from your home but also from your mind. If conflicts do occur in your mind, then you should leave that guru and find another one.

What good is the guru if your worries and problems do not go away and conflicts and complications at home do not stop? You have to tell that guru, "At home I still become angry with my children; stop that for me, otherwise next year I will retire you." Can you say at least this much to a guru or not? What do you think? Otherwise, these gurus keep getting sweets (which disciples bring them) and they continue to get paid, don't they? So this ignorance continues, not just in India, but everywhere else too.

## This is The Way to Recognize Real Wealth

**Questioner** : Is there a sure way of recognizing and being sure that a person is a real guru?

**Dadashri** : As far as recognizing one, a real guru is someone who even if you swear at him, does not have to forgive you; forgiveness is an attribute that is spontaneous and natural within him. Forgiveness is constant no matter how much you beat him or insult him. He is very straightforward. He does not have any self-interest and he does not ask for any money from you. He provides solutions to your questions. He will not strike back even if you were to irritate him or make a mistake. What would you call a person who strikes at you? An attacking cobra. I have told you all the different ways to recognize one (guru).

You should assess him before you make him your guru. What is the point of making anyone your guru?

**Questioner** : How does one know what he is like?

**Dadashri** : Have you ever seen the old valueless coins with King Edwards and the Queen on it? People do not have faith in those coins even when we assure them that they are exchangeable as valid currency. So they tap them on a rock or metal. You fool! you cannot tap _Laxmiji_ (money; Goddess of wealth), this way. They still do. Why? They do it to check if the coin is solid or hollow. If it rings, they will put it away in the safe and discard it if it sounds hollow. So tapping a rupee is a way to test it. Similarly, you should always test a guru.

**Questioner** : Do we have to examine him?

**Dadashri** : Test! You may not know how to examine him. How can a child test a person with a caliber of a professor?

**Questioner** : What is the difference between a test and an examination?

**Dadashri** : There is a great difference. In testing, all you have to say is, "Sir, I do not feel that everything you have said so far is true." He will become 'tested' immediately. He will strike back and you will understand that he is aggressive and therefore this 'shop' is not for you. Change the shop! Will you not know that you need to change the shop?

**Questioner** : But, Dada is it not disrespectful to say that to a guru?

**Dadashri** : It is like this, if you do not disrespect him (in order to test him), how long will you remain sitting there? Say you want the 'Double Horse' brand of silk, you go from one shop to another in search of it and someone recommends that you go to the _Khadi_ _Bhandar,_ a storehouse of spun cloth (wrong place for silk). Now if you go there but do not make inquiries and just sit there, how long will you remain seated? Instead, you should say to him, "Sir, if you have the brand of Double Horse silk, then I will even sit for six hours provided you have it." If he tells you he does not, then you have to get up and leave.

Nevertheless, even here you are making a mistake. Do not leave right away after assessing the guru. When you tell him 'your gnan is not proper', that statement hurts him and you incur a liability for being disrespectful. So you should tell him, "Sir, I sometimes lose my mind (when I say things)". He may tell you not to worry but he still feels hurt by your statement. So you should keep some money in your pocket ask him, "Is there anything you need, a pair of glasses perhaps? Tell me what you need" or you can offer him a shawl. Tell him, "Sir, please accept this shawl and bless me by placing your hand on my head." He will be happy then. You know that when test the rupee by hitting it against a rock there are no karmic consequences but here with a living person, you will have a claim against you, so settle the situation by giving him a shawl. You will have to spend a hundred rupees in the process but at least you will have escaped being trapped in that shop!

How long are you going to remain trapped like that?

The ultimate guru is the one who does not have any attachment or abhorrence. When you do not see any change or anger in his eyes if you were to take away the food you just served him, realize that he is the ultimate guru. Otherwise, there is no substance in those who are affected by this. Do you understand all that?

**Questioner** : Yes.

**Dadashri** : So we are not using these tactics for the purpose of his examination but rather to remain cautious. It appears bad if it is done for the sake of examination. However you must be attentive for any changes in his eyes. Now when you remove the plate away from him and you see a change in his eyes, you should immediately tell him, "I am bringing you some food in a silver plate." This is the way to check out any changes in his eyes. We must check these things out, should we not?

What is the point of bringing home goods you were cheated into buying? If you go out to buy a shawl, don't you have to inspect it? Don't you have to unfold and open it up to see if it okay? Otherwise when you bring it home and find a hole in it, will people not question, "Why didn't you check it before you purchased it?" That is why Shrimad Rajchandra says, "Look before you make a guru, otherwise he will lead you astray." Latching on to anyone you like will not work, will it? What happens when you get cheated like this? Therefore you have to be vigilant everywhere.

## Clear details Through Vitraagta

In the current time cycle of _Kaliyug_ , you will not find a good guru and what is more the one you make your guru, will eat you alive.

**Questioner** : That is true but as an exception can there not be at least one good guru?

**Dadashri** : There may be a good guru, but he would not have any understanding. So then what will you do with such a guru? Those who do understand will abuse their understanding. Instead of that, it is better to sit at home and meditate on the books. So the gurus of today will not benefit you. Instead it is better to make no one your guru and remain without a guru.

**Questioner** : According to our culture a person without a guru is _naguno_ (has no value).

**Dadashri** : Where did you hear this?

**Questioner** : From a saint.

**Dadashri:** Yes, and what do they mean? It is not _naguno_ but _naguro_ , meaning 'without a guru' ('na' = no). If a person does not have a guru, people will call him a _'naguro'_.

My _kanthi_ (a traditional necklace of tiny wooden beads given to the disciple by his guru) broke at the age of twelve and so people kept calling me 'naguro'. They kept telling me I had to wear a _kanthi_ and that they would arrange for me to wear one. I asked them, "How can I get a _kanthi_ from these people who have no knowledge themselves and have no power to give knowledge to others? They told me if I did not wear a _kanthi_ , people would call me _'naguro'_. Now what is a _'naguro'_? I thought that it might be a curse word or something like that. It was not until I was older that I realized that it referred to guru-less person.

**Questioner** : Is it necessary to go through all the _vidhis_ (special ceremonies and rituals) to wear a _kanthi_ and change clothes in order to make someone my guru?

**Dadashri** : There is no need for such things.

**Questioner** : Why do the religious gurus say that God will help those who wear _kanthis_ and not those who do not? Is that true?

**Dadashri** : It is like this. The shepherds have spread such talks. Shepherds would tell their sheep, "Do not be a _naguro_ and wander around." So then the sheep would feel, "Oh ho ho! I am not a _naguro_ ! So let me go and tie a _kanthi_! Let me make a guru!" That is how they made gurus. They are the sheep and those (gurus) are the shepherds. Nevertheless, I cannot use words like this. But when you want to know the facts, then I tell you this purely for your information and what is more, I speak with _vitaragta_. That is why whenever I say something it is without any attachment or abhorrence. I am a _Gnani_ _Purush_ and so I am considered a responsible person. I do not have any attachment or abhorrence anywhere.

**Questioner** : I met two or three mendicants who wanted me to tie a _kanthi_ and I told them no.

**Dadashri** : Yes, but only the shrewd will not allow it; the naive would allow it, will they not?

**Questioner** : If we have not tied a _kanthi_ by any guru but we feel an attraction towards a guru and we take his _gnan_ , can that be regarded as an established guru-disciple relationship or do we need to have a _kanthi_? Many scriptures and _acharyas_ say that one should not even look at the face of someone without a guru.

**Dadashri** : It is like this: if you want to join a sect, then you should tie a _kanthi_ and if you want to remain free, then you should not. Wear the _kanthi_ of the one who gives _Gnan_. What the sect is saying is that first you should establish this standard and until then you should not be looking anywhere else.

Otherwise, how can one be called a _naguro_? No one these days is a _naguro_. Who used the word _naguro_ in the first place? The gurus with a _kanthi_ started the whole concept so that they would not lose any 'customers'. There is nothing wrong in not wearing a _kanthi_. The _kanthi_ creates a kind of a psychological effect. So what do all these sectarian opinions do? They push their _kanthis_ on others so that a person feels, "I belong to (such and such) a sect," so there is a corresponding psychological effect. However, that is good, it is not wrong. It is not harmful to us. You should not worry about being a _naguro_. Will you feel insulted if you were called _naguro_?

**Questioner** : No.

**Dadashri** : Why did you worry about being a _naguro_?

**Questioner** : It is because of the talks about a _kanthi_.

**Dadashri** : Yes but you should tell the one tying the _kanthi_ on you, "How long will I keep this _kanthi_? I will keep it until I gain something, or else I will break it off." You should make such a deal with him. If he asks you what benefits you want, tell him that all the conflicts at home should subside or else you will break the _kanthi_ and throw it away. That is what you have to say right from the start but people don't do this, do they? People continue to wear the _kanthi_ and the conflicts also continue. If conflicts continue after tying a _kanthi_ , then break it and tell the guru, "Here take your _kanthi_ back. There is no power in your _kanthi_. You have not blessed it properly. Bless it in such a way that we do not have any conflicts at home."

**Questioner** : They say that if we do not tie a _kanthi_ then even if we listen to their _oopdesh_ , we will not get the _Gnan_.

**Dadashri** : There you have it! "If you don't tie a _kanthi_ , you will not acquire the _Gnan_!" They straighten people through their threats.

## Who caught on to whose words

It is a good thing that they straighten people out even by doing this. At least they do not let people slip. But where is the talk of elevating them? The guru, himself, is not elevated! Is it easy to elevate someone in this _Kaliyug_? This 'hill' is very steep, but at least they (guru) are not letting people slip. And because people are not able to find anything else, they find whatever they can and sit there. This is how one has to wander from one life to another.

**Questioner** : It is said:

" _Guru and God both stand here, who do I bow down to?_

Blessed is the guru, who showed the Lord."

(The importance is of the guru who shows the God)

**Dadashri** : Yes, but who will you call a _gurudev_? A real _gurudev_ is the one who shows you God; this is what they are saying. Nowadays the gurus recite this to establish their status as a guru. But should you not ask them, "Sahib, I will call you _'gurudev'_ when you show me God, just as it is written. Then I will establish you as my guru. You yourself are still searching for the Lord and so am I, so how can we both attain God?"

Otherwise, all the gurus today point to this very thing. Even if they have not shown you God, they will make you sing about it. This way at least the gurus get some _prasad_ (offering of food)! All other shops would benefit from these words too, would they not?

**Questioner** : But here on this scale the importance of the guru is heavier.

**Dadashri** : It is heavy, but there have not been such gurus. Actually, the "probationers" (trainee gurus) have benefit from this. These probationer gurus believe, "Now I am a guru, I showed you God so you should worship me." But of what use are these probationers? God is one in whom the ego is gone. If there is any state that is worthy of greater worship, it is of the one whose ego is gone, the one whose 'I-ness' is gone. Where the 'I-ness is gone', everything is gone.

These Guru Brahma, Guru Vishnu, and Guru Maheshvara are not gurus. People take advantage in their names. People worship them because of these gurus. This discussion is about a _sadguru_. _Sadguru_ means a _Gnani Purush_. This discussion is of the one who knows and has experienced the _Satta_ (the Real; the Self; the Soul; the universal truth), but instead people have latched on to these ordinary gurus.

## Guru, the Son of the Guru

**Questioner** : In the olden days, the legacy of gurus existed in which the guru taught his disciple and then that disciple became a guru himself and taught his disciples...

**Dadashri** : That was a true legacy. But such a legacy does not exist today. Now they have become heirs to the throne. How can you accept a guru's son as a guru? It is an abuse to establish a throne.

**Questioner** : Instead of religious organization, it became a cultural arrangement.

**Dadashri** : Yes, it became an organization. Where does _dharma_ (religion) remain? It remains in its place. What is more the influence of _Kaliyug_ came into play. One or two men would be good, but after them, the heirs to their throne would take over. Heirs to the thrones everywhere! Heirs are not always suitable. In religion, we cannot have heirs to the guru's throne. They must be _Atma gnani_.

**Questioner** : There were no thrones before, so where did they come from?

**Dadashri** : They were discovered when things fell in the hands of clever people. They opened up their own shops when there was no one left. The blind will always find someone to mislead them. I do not know how we find such people in this country. People have started this mischief, it continues to go on, and on...people have become heirs to thrones.

Who has the right to these thrones? Those who do not have any anger, pride, attachment, and greed have a right to these thrones. Do you not see justice in this? What is just?

**Questioner** : That is right.

**Dadashri** : So many people ask me why I started this _Akram_? I tell them that I have not started it. I simply became a _nimit_ (instrumental in the process). Why would I start it? Do I want to create a throne here? Have I come here to create thrones? Am I dethroning anyone? No, I do not create or destroy anything. There is no such thing here and there is no throne here, is there? Those who have thrones have problems. Where there are thrones, there is no _moksha_ there.

## Only the desire to worship has worth

People in religion have found these ways to uphold their opinions and open shops of their own worship, hence they did not let people come out of that rut. They have misled people so that people would worship them. Saboteurs this is ok. will not let anything else in. Saboteur means one with desire to be worshipped. The desire to be worshipped is a kind of 'broker ship' (business), is it not?

If a religious book comes into one's hands and people ask him to read, from that moment onwards, a desire wells up within him, "Now people will praise me." If at such a time a desire to be worshipped arises within, you should be dismissed. How can such a desire arise within you after touching a _Gnani's_ book (book of true knowledge)? On the contrary, such a book should actually destroy any existing desires. Can you tell when a desire to be worshipped arises in people?

**Questioner** : Yes.

**Dadashri** : Then the competition starts. He does not like it if someone else is worshipped more than he. People believe that to be worshipped is _moksha_ itself. There is grave danger in this. The only person worth worshipping is someone who does not have any quarrels with anyone in this world.

These gurus have a desire to be worshipped; they get a desire to become gurus. You fool! At least recognize the desire Krupadudev had. He said, "I am desirous of knowing the absolute Self." Never in my life have I had a desire to be worshipped because it is bothersome. We need to have a desire to worship anyone who is above us. All you need is to worship and not to be worshipped; that is all.

**Questioner** : Is pride, desire to be worshipped, _garvaras,_ etc, not a part of 'I-ness'?

**Dadashri:** All these things reinforce the 'I-ness'. A strong 'I-ness' will cause a quarrel with someone, some day, will it not? Then people will say, "Look he is showing his 'I-ness'." He will not achieve anything once his 'I-ness' shows its presence. That is why the desire to be worshipped does not leave even after numerous past lives. The greed for this never leaves.

## Nobody's Name Remains

Then they also have a desire for fame and so they publish their names in books. Why did you not get married, instead? At least your children would carry on your name. Why do you want to keep a name here, after becoming a Guru? Your name even in a book! They make them print things like, "My grandfather is a guru, my father is a guru etc!" They have started to use names even in temples. They put plaques of 'This temple was built by such and such a guru'. Do names ever remain? When even the names of worldly people do not remain how would the name of a guru ever remain? One should not have even a desire to keep his name. Any desire is regarded as beggardliness.

## Miss your Goal and Desire will take Over

This desire does not go away. The desire for respect, the desire for fame, the desire for sex, the desire for money... desire, desire, desire! Have you ever seen anyone without desire? There is also the desire for building temples, so they involve themselves in building temples. When a person has nothing to do, he will get involved in everything that will help him earn fame. Why are you building temples? Do we not have enough temples in India? But he runs around raising money in order to build temples. God has said that one will build temples if it is written so in the fruition of his karma, so why are you getting involved in that?

In India, the human life is not just for building temples. One is born in India only to achieve _moksha_. If your goal is for becoming _ekavtari_ (go to _moksha_ after one more life), you will achieve that in fifty, a hundred, or even five hundred more lifetimes. However, you should let go of any other goals you may have. You may get married, have children, become a doctor, build a bungalow but that is all immaterial. However keep only one goal and that is since you are born in India (apt to accept the spiritual science of the Vitraag Lords and liberation), you want to acquire the tool to achieve liberation. Come down to this one goal and then you will find a solution.

Otherwise, there should not be any desire, greed, avarice within. You should not get involved with having your name recorded for pledges or donations and neither should you instigate anyone else to do so. There you should not do, make others do, or instigate ( _anumoda_ ) others in doing anything. I have been free from every desire, even of building temples, because I do not need anything in this world. I do not have any kind of subtle greed for fame, money, gold, or disciples. I do not even have thoughts about money or sex. How can there be any desires when even mere thoughts about these do not arise within?

Every human being covets fame and respect. When you ask people, "What do you covet? How many desires do you have within you? Do you have any desire?" They will say that they have none. Oh ho ho! If someone were to insult you right now, we would find out how strong a need there is within for respect and recognition.

A guru may be a celibate, he will not have any desire for women, he may not have any desire for money, but there will be all kinds of desires for fame. He will have desires for disciples, for fame, and countless other things. There is even a desire for disciples! He will say, "I do not have any disciples." Now, what do the scriptures say? The scriptures claim that the true disciple is he who comes on his own accord, without you searching for him.

## God Stays Away From Desires

That is why I use the word _bheekh_ – beggarliness. Others do not use this word; they use the euphemism, 'desire'. Use the word ' _bheekh'_! That way at least people's beggarliness will go away. What does 'desire' mean? It means thirst. Whether a person feels thirsty or not, there is no objection to that, is there? But this is your _bheekh_. How can God exist where there is beggarliness? This word _bheekh_ makes you feel as though there is a noose around your neck.

You can see the world as it is, only after your beggarliness goes away completely. As long as there is beggarliness in me, I will not see others as being beggarly. When your own beggarliness goes away, then everyone will appear as beggarly and needy.

One acquires the state of _Gnani_ when _bheekh_ of every kind goes away. When does one acquire the state of _Gnani_? When his every _bheekh_ goes away, _bheekh_ for money, _bheekh_ for sex; any kind of _bheekh_!

If a person has no _bheekh_ , then he is God or a Gnani or whatever you want to call him. It is because of his _bheekh_ that he has become this way. That is why he beseeches, does he not? Where do you need to keep _bheekh_? With the _Gnani_! You have to go to a _Gnani_ and ask for the gift of love. The _Gnani_ gives it anyway, but if you ask for it, what you receive will be love of an exceptional quality. Is there not a difference between filtered and unfiltered tea? It will make this much of a difference. Filtered tea will not have any residue in it.

## You Cannot Acquire Anything Without Purity

All these problems remain because of the presence of _bheekh_. There is no purity there. Everywhere you look it has become a business. Wherever there is any exchange of money, it becomes a business. In these situations, they are always ready to take advantage of worldly benefits. Worldly benefits are all businesses. Even if the guru does not take anything but has a desire for respect, it is still a worldly benefit and until then they are all businesses.

India is such a country that everyone's business carries on but there is danger in all such businesses. You should tell people there is danger in it.

**Questioner** : Why are there so many charades in the name of religion?

**Dadashri** : Then under what other name (if not religion) will they carry on the charade? They will get beaten up if they tried it under any other name. " _Bapji_ took ten rupees from me but if I question him, what will I do if he puts a curse on me?" Therefore, there is no outlet other than religion; there is no escape.

But we cannot say that everyone is like that. Five to ten percent of the people (guru) are good people, but no one goes to them because they do not have the power of words, whereas other people's speech is mesmerizing and so everyone gathers there. However, their intentions are negative whereby one way or another they extract money out of you. What do you gain from such deceptive shops? On the other hand, what is there to take from a shop, that is pure but has nothing in it? A pure person has nothing in his shop. In a deceptive shop, they will give you goods but they will cheat you in the process; they will give you adulterated goods.

It is a different matter if the guru has no need for anything, where he does not need any money, he does not need to grow his _ashram_ or his following; such people are acceptable. People will benefit there even if you call it a shop. It is fine if you do not get any _Gnan_ there as long as he is pure. Nobody will gain anything where there is impurity.

## The one who moves about freely; that is a Gnani

**Questioner** : Is it true that there is a system of _Ashram_ in the Hindu and the Jain society?

**Dadshri** : That system was fine in the _Satyug_ (time cycle of the past characterized by virtue, wisdom, happiness and morality), in the fourth and the second _Ara_. It is not acceptable in the fifth Ara (the current time cycle lf Kaliyug).

**Questioner** : Does the system of _ashrams_ lead to divisions and sects?

**Dadashri** : The system of _ashram_ is a vehicle for creating divisions and sects. Creators of these divisions are egotistical and overly wise. They create something new, something other than what is expected. There is no intention of going to _moksha_. They just want to show their wisdom. They continue to create new divisions and then when a _Gnani_ is born, the _Gnani_ will close all the divisions and reduces them. A hundred thousand _Gnanis_ will have just one opinion and one _agnani_ has a hundred thousand opinions.

**Questioner** : They call it an ' _ashram'_ (a place for resting), but one has to make efforts there.

**Dadashri** : No, no. I will tell you how people have made use of _ashrams_ in India. When a person gets tired at home, he will go and live there and eat and drink happily. That is how they use the _ashrams_. Therefore, anyone who wants to reduce his _shram_ (tiredness) and wants to eat, drink, and sleep, then they can have _ashrams_. There, in the _ashrams_ , they will not have a wife or anyone to bother them. At home, their children quarrel. In the _ashrams_ there is no wife or children to bother them. There is solitude there and so a person can enjoy the nice cool breeze and snore away without any bedbugs to bother him. The exhaustion of the worldly life is reduced there.

Now it is good if one eats, drinks, and sleeps. But people misuse it and therefore bind a birth in the lower life form. They harm no one but themselves. There may be one or two good _ashrams_ but generally the _ashrams_ are tools for escapism.

**Questioner** : Is there a need for _ashrams_ and temples in the path you are showing?

**Dadashri** : Here there is no _ashram_ or any such thing. Can there be any _ashrams_ here? From the very beginning, I have opposed _ashrams_. What have I been saying from the beginning? I have said that I do not need any ashrams. People had come here to build an _ashram_ but I told them no. What do I need an _ashram_ for? I do not need any _ashram_.

So I have said from the beginning that the one who is called a _'Gnani'_ does not make the effort to construct an _ashram_. I will even do _satsang_ under a tree, if there is no place else to do it. I do not have any objections. Everything is dependant upon the maturation of karma. Even Lord Mahavir used to do _satsang_ sitting under a tree; he did not go looking for any _ashrams_. I do not need even a little room or anything like that. I do not have a need for anything.

**Questioner** : The words _'apratibadha_ _vihari'_ (unrestricted living) have been used for a _Gnani_.

**Dadashri** : Yes, I am a _Gnani_ who moves about unrestricted in _dravya_ - _kshetra-kaad_ and _bhaav_ i.e. in effect- space-time and inner intent.

The whole world builds _ashrams_. You cannot afford the weight of _ashrams_ if you want to be free. It is better to beg for food than to go to an _ashram_ (for a free meal). God has given the freedom to beg for food. God has said to take alms and work for the salvation of others. The problem lies only in feeding your stomach, right? Real _ashrams_ existed in _Satyug_ , when people were earnestly trying to acquire only _moksha_. But in this era of moral and spiritual decline, ( _Kaliyug_ ) _ashrams_ have become a collection of resting places. No one cares about _moksha_ nowadays. Therefore, it is not worth building _ashrams_ in the current time cycle.

## That Does Not Reach God

People have made businesses out of this, business of religion. They want to make a profit out of being worshipped. There are many such businesses in India. Are there only two or three such businesses? There are countless such businesses. How can we say such things to the owners. How can you say no to someone who tells you that he wants to start such a business? So then what should we do to the customers?

**Questioner** : We should stop them.

**Dadashri** : No, you cannot stop them. This will continue in this world.

**Questioner** : Today people are involved in raising millions of rupees to build _ashrams_.

**Dadashri** : But the rupees are like that; there is no substance to them.

**Questioner** : But what if those rupees are used for a good cause like education or helping others?

**Dadashri** : Even if it is used for a good cause, what I am saying is that none of it reaches God. If it is used for a good cause, it will produce many good things but what benefit does one get out of it himself? There is no religion where there is money. By whatever the amount of money is involved, that is how weak that religion is.

**Questioner** : When money comes, one has to take care of it and make arrangements for it.

**Dadashri** : No, not like that. Not for its arrangement. There will always be volunteers who are willingly to take care of all that. But religion becomes weak in the presence of money. The biggest weakness there is, is that of attachment to money and sex. These are the two biggest attachments people have. And God does not exist where there is attachment and there cannot be any attachment where there is God.

And when money enters, there is no telling how much deeper he will fall into it. Are there any rules here? Therefore no money should be involved at the very root. Come clean; do not adulterate a religion!

## What a State of Religion Today!

In addition, they charge a fee just as there is a fee when you go to see a play. There are about five percent or so (guru) that are good. Just as the price of gold goes up, so do their fees! That is why I had to write in the books that neither God nor religion exists in the exchange of money. God exists where there is no exchange of money or business partnership. Whenever there is an exchange of money; it is considered a business partnership.

There is money involved wherever you go. They charge you a fee everywhere. So what crime have the poor committed there? And if you have a fee, then charge the poor a nominal amount so they too can attend and get the benefit. But here only the rich can benefit. Wherever there are any fees, there is no religion. We do not charge anyone here. What would happen if we did? You will spend your money once to get the _Gnan_ , then you will say, "We will practice the _Gnan_ very strongly, but we will not pay again to attend."

It is wrong to name names, but I am giving you a synopsis of what has become of religion today. It is wrong that gurus have become business-minded. It is wrong to keep fees. Wherever there are practitioners (trainees) they keep fees. All such things are useless.

Where there is business of money, one cannot be called a 'guru'. Where tickets are issued, it is called a 'play'. But people don't know any better nowadays and they will go to only the ones who have tickets. They adjust to each other better because they are wrong and so are the gurus. Therefore, everything that goes on is very shallow and wrong.

Then they (guru) claim they are without desire. Why do you make such claims? If you are desire-less then no one will doubt you or be suspicious about you. And if you are with desire, then no matter what you say, no one is going to refrain from being suspicious about you and no one is going to believe you no matter what you say, because your desires and tendencies will say it all.

## Where is the Weakness Here?

Here everyone is trying to fill his or her stomach because of their beggarliness. Everyone is in it for himself or herself. If it is not for their stomach, then it is for fame. It is for desires, fame, money, or pride. You can acquire anything you want from a man who does not have any kind of desires. A person who has needs and desires, has not achieved anything or improved himself and so he cannot help you improve either. Everywhere people have started a business and the customers keep coming.

One man asks me, "Is it the fault of the customers or the businessman?" I told him that the fault lies with the customer. A man can start any type of business he wants to but should the customers not be savvy? If a fisherman throws bait on a hook, and the fish is greedy and bites the bail, who is at fault the fish or the fisherman? It is the fault of the one that takes the bait. People take the bait thrown by these gurus.

People have created sects to fulfill their desires to be worshipped. The entire fault does not fall upon the poor worshippers. The fault lies with the brokers; the intermediary. These intermediaries are not content and do not let others be content. That is why I am trying to expose all this. One has always taken joy and pleasure in brokering and made a safe-side for himself. However, you should not tell them that they are at fault. What is the point of telling them? They will be hurt and we have not come here to hurt anyone. All we have to do is understand where the weakness lies. Why do brokers still exist? It is because the flow of customers is very strong. Where would they go if they did not have customers? They will go away, but the fault mainly lies with the customers, does it not? So the main fault is ours. How long will a realtor run around to sell a home? He will do so as long as he has customers, otherwise he will stop and remain silent.

## Temptation Befools a Person!

**Questioner** : The gurus of today are only after money.

**Dadashri** : People too are like that. We have crooked saws (to cut wood) because the logs are crooked. Even the wood today is not straight! People are crooked and that is why they find crooked gurus. What crookedness do people have? "I want a son for my son." It is these kinds of desires that make them victims and become subject to exploitation by their gurus. How is a guru going to get a son for your son? Where is he going to get a wife and a son from, when he himself has none? Why don't you ask someone with a son? People make gurus because of their greed for such things. Hence, these fraudulent gurus have taken advantage of such desires. It is correct to make a guru, when you yourself do not have any desires.

These gurus simply change their attire and mislead people. People, on the other hand, become fooled because of their avarice and temptations. They would not be fooled if they did not have any desire. The one who has no desire will never have the occasion to be fooled.

**Questioner** : But today people ask their guru for worldly happiness; no one asks for liberation.

**Dadashri** : It is all worldly talk everywhere, is it not? There is no talk about liberation. It is all about, "I want my son to have a son," or "I want my business to run well," or "My son needs a job," or "Bless me so I can get this or that..." There are endless such desires. Hey! Have you come here for religion, for liberation or worldly things?

There is a saying, "Guru is greedy, and the disciple has temptation, so they both play their own game." This should not be the case. The disciple is avaricious and so the guru will tell him, "Your work will be done with my blessings." So nothing will be achieved when temptation is involved.

## The Guru Should Not Have Any Self-Interest

The gurus of today have nothing of substance to offer because of this _Kaliyug_. More than you, he has greater self-interest. They are trying to fulfill their self-interest and you are trying to fulfill yours. This kind of a path is not the path of guru-disciple.

**Questioner** : Often times for many years, even intelligent people mistake phony gurus as being real.

**Dadashri** : That is because of their temptation. Many people make gurus out of their own temptation.

Today's gurus are gurus of _Kaliyug_. They have some kind of self-interest. "I wonder how he (disciple) can be of use to me?" is always at the back of their minds. They have such thoughts in their minds even before they meet you. If a doctor were to go there, the moment he sets eyes on the doctor, he will think about how ways te doctor can be useful for him. He will welcome the doctor. Arey! Why do you need with a doctor? He is thinking about all of this in self-interest. You should never get your work done from those who have self-interest. You should go to someone who does not want anything and who does not have any self-interest. With a selfish person, he has his self-interest and you have yours. If there is any self-interest in a guru-disciple relationship, then there is no guru and no disciple. There should not be any self-interest here.

If you are pure, you can tell the guru, "Sir, I will leave you the day I see any self-interest in you. I will curse you and leave. So you can let me stay if you want to. I will not let you be without food and drink, but do not have any self-interest."

Yes, you need a guru in whom you do not see any self-interest. But today the gurus are greedy and disciples have temptation; the two get together, so how can anything worthy come out of that? Then both continue playing their own games.

Mainly it is because people have temptation that these fraudulent gurus continue to survive. A real guru is never fraudulent; there are a few such gurus out there, are there not? This world is not without them but they are hard to find, are they not? Only the most fortunate ones find them.

## A fee for the Guru's visit

Then there are gurus who take money for visiting and gracing people's home with their footsteps! Why don't you bless a poor man's home with your footsteps? Why do you treat the poor this way? Don't you have to think about the poor too? I told one man who did this that he was wasting his money and time. Why don't you have some poor man, in whom God resides, come to grace and bless your home with his feet instead? But people are so greedy that they will say, "My work will be done; after fifteen years my son will have a son of his own when the guru sets foot in his home."

**Questioner** : That is because people have such a faith.

**Dadashri** : No, it is because they are avaricious. It is not faith. That is not called faith. Avaricious people will take on any penance or renounce anything. They will even renounce on the say so of a mad guru. If someone tells them, "This man is crazy but he grants children to couples." People will fall at his feet calling him 'Bapji', and if a child is born to them, they will give him the credit. What can you say to people with avarice?

People even tell me, "Dada has given us all this," so I tell them, "Dada does not give anything." But they give all the credit to Dada. It happens because of your merit karma and my _yashnam_ karma (karma that brings fame and credit). When the two are present, then your work gets done with a mere touch of my hand. But people say that I (Dadaji), am the one who does all this. I tell them that is not so and they receive that which is their own. Why would I do anything? Why would I take on such trouble when I do not want anything? Get your work done from the one who does not want anything, who does not have any expectations, or desires of any kind.

What I am saying is that you may have my footsteps bless your home, but do it without expectations of any monetary gains. It is fine if there is such a _nimit_ and the work gets done.

**Questioner** : Can one do it for his own betterment and not for his home?

**Dadashri** : Yes, he can do anything, but there should not be any expectations for money. His intention should not be bad. If you were to forcefully take me to your home, is that considered blessing your home through my footsteps? It has to be done voluntarily and with pleasure. Then it does not matter whether you please me through words or through deceit. However, you cannot please me deceitfully.

There are some who even come here to deceive me; they come to flatter me, but I will not be deceived. Hundreds of thousands of people must come to me. One may flatter me while trying something or other but he will not succeed. He will not be able to tempt me. He will realize that he will not get anywhere and so he will leave. I have seen such gurus, deceitful gurus. I recognize them the moment they come here. Do you not have to call them 'guru'? What else are they? You cannot call them deceitful; you have to call them guru, don't you?

**Questioner** : Yes.

**Dadashri** : I have met many such gurus. I will not say anything to them to their face. They eventually get tired thinking, "I have come here to tell him things and I have brought him things, but he does not even listen to me." They eventually get tired and leave with a realization that they cannot get anywhere with this Dada, that there is no opportunity in the future. Allya! I don't want anything, why do you try to look for opportunities here? Go to someone who wants something; go to a covetous man. There is no covetousness here. I will send them back, no matter who comes here.

People come here saying, "Come on in uncle, we do not like it here without you. You can tell us to do anything and we will do it for you. We will even massage your legs for you." They will come to flatter you this way. Just turn a deaf ear to such flattery. Do you understand this?

Everything has now become straightforward, so get all your work done. That is all I am telling you to do. This much straightforwardness will not come again. You will not have this chance again. This is a tremendous opportunity so do not let other things flatter you. There is no fun in flattery. You will find people to flatter you, but there is no benefit in it for you. Therefore, let go of the habit of enjoying flattery for this one lifetime. You have only half of your life left now, do you not? It is not your whole life is it?

## Only Purity Is Required

**Questioner** : You say all these things, no one else does.

**Dadashri** : Yes, but one can speak only if he has become pure, otherwise how can he speak? They want to have worldly temptations and happiness. How are they going to say such things? Therefore, purity is required. I do not want anything in this world including all the gold and money in this world. I do not even have thoughts about women. I do not have any desires. I have acquired the state of the Pure Soul, is that any ordinary thing?

**Questioner** : So every guru's individual moral character should be pure.

**Dadashri** : Yes. The guru's moral character should be absolutely pure. The disciple's character may not be so, but the guru's should be exact. One is not a guru if his moral character is not proper; it would be meaningless. Even the incense has character. If a few incense sticks were burning, they would completely fill this room with their fragrance. Then how can you have a guru without moral character? The guru should have his own aroma.

## The Priority in the Path of Moksha

Two things that are not found in the path of _moksha,_ they are thoughts about women and thoughts about money. Religion does not exist where there are thoughts about women or money. This world exists because of these two attachments. So it is wrong to look for religion there. But how many institutions run without money today?

**Questioner** : Not a single one.

**Dadashri** : People are not able to break free from this _maya_ (attachment to material things). _Maya_ has entered even in the Guru. This is the _Kaliyug,_ so _maya_ is bound to affect people, is it not? There can never be true religion where there is any exchange of money or thoughts about women. I am not talking about those living a worldly life ( _sansari_ ), I am talking about the gurus and those whose preaching guides people; they should not have these two attachments. Otherwise, they have it, and the _sansaris_ have it too! It should not be like that. And what is the third requirement? They should have _samyak drashti_ (the real vision).

So you should not linger wherever there is any discussion about women or money. Look before you make someone your guru. Do not make a guru if he has such flaws and shortcomings. Even the slightest flaw in these matters is not acceptable. It does not matter if he travels in cars, but he should not fail in his moral character. There is no problem even if he has an ego and he becomes happy when others revere him. We can pardon all these things as long as he has a good, moral character. The most important thing is one's moral character.

**Questioner** : Are money and women harmful in the practice of true religion? But it has been said that women are more religious.

**Dadashri** : It is not a question of whether women are religious or not. There is no problem with women in religion. The problem is with the negative vision and thoughts towards them. The problem is with viewing a woman as an object of enjoyment. She is an _Atma_ (soul) and not a sexual object.

Religion cannot exist wherever money is accepted; money is taken in the form of fees, tax, or duty, as a gift etc. Where money is taken in these forms, religion cannot exist. Religion cannot occur where money is involved and vice versa. So this is easy to understand, is it not? Wherever money and sex is involved, one is not even a guru. Things are going to change. Now there will be good gurus. Good means pure. Now if a guru has financial difficulty, then you can ask him what he needs for his sustenance. There should not be anything else besides this. They should not have needs to become famous or any such things.

## That is Called keeping a Difference

Do you think people are happy? They are unhappy to begin with and then you take money from them? Do people not go to a guru to get rid of their misery? But then you increase their misery by charging them twenty-five rupees. You cannot take even a dime from anyone. When you take anything from anyone, it is separation. And that verily is called _'sansar'_ (the worldly life). One wanders around in this. In such interactions, the 'taker' is the vagrant; the one who takes is called a 'vagrant'. He takes money because he thinks of the other person as not one of his own.

If I use anything or spend even a rupee for myself, I would become spiritually bankrupt. One should not spend even a single dime of the worshippers' money. Those who have started such a business will go into bankruptcy and waste away whatever _siddhis_ (special spiritual powers) they have acquired. The guru had attracted people with whatever little _siddhis_ he had acquired, but then those _siddhis_ will get used up. Any _siddhis_ that are misused will be lost.

## Ask to be liberated From All sufferings...

Many people come here and leave their money. You do not need to leave your money here; you just have to ask for things. Is this a place to give things to? Do you have to give anything to the king of the universe? On the contrary, you have to ask him to remove all your difficulties. Give your money to a guru. They may be in need of clothes or something else. The _Gnani Purush_ does not need anything.

One businessperson had three large trunks delivered to my home in Santa Cruz. Then he came to meet me. I asked him what the trunks were. "Nothing, but just a token...if not the whole flower then even a petal...," he replied. Then I asked him if he had any difficulties or problems, so he told me that he wanted children. In what life did you not have children? You had children when you were evolving as a dog, as a donkey, a monkey; in which life did you not have children? You still ask for children? Even when God is pleased with you, you still ask for children? And you come to me with a bribe? You have come to taint me with your filth? Me a businessman! Then when I become filthy, to whom will I pass on the filth? Go and spread your filth on the gurus out there. Those poor gurus do not get any 'filth'. How can you bring such misguided actions here? So he replied, "Sir, please bless us." So I told him, "Yes I will bless you, I will use my influence."

As far as your problems are concerned, all I have to do is to pick up the 'phone' and call the _dev-devas_. All I have to do is act as an intermediary, and carry out the exchange. Otherwise, the _Gnani Purush_ does not get involved. The _Gnani Purush_ does not meddle in such things, but he is here to listen to people's difficulties, is he not? He is here to get rid of all the problems, is he not? If you have difficulties, come and ask for money. Now, I do not give out money, but I will make the appropriate calls, just do not be greedy. Come only if you have difficulty and I will do everything, but only as far as your difficulty demands. I will stop the moment you start to become greedy.

Hand over your difficulties to me and, if you have faith in me, they will not come back to you. But they will if you lose faith in me. So if you have any difficulties, tell me, "Dada, I am surrendering my difficulties to you." If I take away your difficulties, then you will get somewhere, otherwise, how can you?

I have come to take away the difficulties of the world. Keep your happiness with you. Do you have a problem with that? If someone like you gives me money, what am I going to do with that money? I have come to take away difficulties. Keep your money, it will be useful to you. In addition, there is no exchange of money where there is a _Gnani Purush_. On the contrary, he comes to take away your difficulties, not increase them.

## Purity of the Gnani

If I were to take money from people, people would give me as much as I wanted. But what am I going to with money? I have acquired the status of a _Gnani_ only after getting rid of all the greed.

In America, on _Gurupurnima_ day people would put gold chains weighing as much as three _tolas_ around my neck and I used to give them back; what was I going to do with them? One woman began to cry and insisted, "You have to accept my chain." So I asked her if she will wear a chain if I were to give her one. She replied, "I do not have a problem with that, but I cannot take yours." I told her, "I will have someone else do it for me." If I were to give someone a very heavy gold chain and make them promise to wear it even at night when they went sleep, are they likely to wear it? They would return it the very next day and say, "Here, Dada take your chain back." If there is happiness in gold, then the more gold you get, the happier you will be. But your belief of happiness exists in gold, is a wrong belief. Can there be happiness in it? Happiness lies in anything that you do not need to acquire or take from someone. Anything in this world that you do not need to acquire, is where happiness lies.

I eat, drink, and wear clothes that I have bought with my own money that I have earned from my business and whatever comes to me as my karmic earning. I do not take money from anyone and I do not wear anything that is given to me by others. I have paid for this _dhoti_ (traditional male attire) that I wear, and I also pay for my own airline tickets to Bombay. So why would I need money? How will people accept even a word of what I say if I take a dime from anyone? It would be tantamount to eating his leftovers. I do not need anything. What could even God give to the one who does not desire anything?

A man came to give me a _dhoti_ , another man came to give something else. If I had the desire, it would be a different matter, but I do not have any desire at all. I am comfortable wearing even torn clothes. So what I am saying is that the purer you remain, the more the world will benefit from it.

## One's Purity Means...

In this world, the greater your purity, the more of the world is yours. You own the world! I have not been an owner of this body for the past twenty-six years and that is why my purity is complete. So, become pure, pure.

**Questioner** : Please clarify purity.

**Dadashri** : Purity means that you do not need anything in this world; there is no desire for anything.

## Everyone Likes To be Superior

It is different here; this is not a shop. People still call this a shop. They ask, "Why have you opened a shop like all the others? What self-interest do you have?" I do have self-interest in this. My self-interest is that you acquire the happiness that I have acquired. People are suffering; they are roasting like potatoes in a fire pit. They are struggling hopelessly like fish out of water. That is why I have to go around wandering from one place to another. Many have acquired this path of peace.

**Questioner** : So that is not self-interest, but rather a _bhaavna_ (inner intent) that all living beings attain salvation.

**Dadashri** : It is a _bhaavna_ that people attain salvation. No one except the _Tirthankars_ and the _Gnanis_ have such _bhaavnas_. How can one think about others when he is not content himself? What do people seek? They seek to acquire a high status. A _sadhu_ keeps thinking, "When will he make me an _acharaya_?" while the _acharaya_ thinks, "When will he make me...?' These are all the _bhaavna_ they have. Then there are people who have the _bhaavna_ to deal in the black market. A ticket collector has a _bhaavna_ for becoming a commissioner. No one cares about _jagatkalyan_ (salvation of the world). Therefore, in the relative perspective, the whole world is preoccupied with superiority; however, they are not able to become superior.

**Questioner** : What do you mean by superiority in the relative?

**Dadashri** : Superiority means they all want to advance higher. They all believe they will become superior as they go higher. They want superiority only in the relative. But when are they like to become superior in the relative world? The relative world is temporary. A person tries to go higher with whatever superiority he has accumulated but there is no telling when he will fall. In the relative world one needs _laguta_ (to be the smallest, the lowliest). Those who try to be superior in the relative world; will not achieve anything.

## Eventually Only Superiority Will Make You Fall

He who has not become _lagutam_ \- lowly is not fit to be _gurutam_ \- superior. Not a single guru today has ever tried to be _lagutam_. Everyone is going towards _gurutam_. Nevertheless, nobody is at fault here. The current time cycle has become an obstacle and the intellect has turned negative. What are all these gurus working towards? Their business is to find out how to go higher, how to increase their superiority. They do not want to go lower. They go higher up in the worldly life and they make a name for themselves by increasing the quantity of their disciples. This only makes them go lower in _nischayaa_ (in the Real; spiritually). They decline gradually. Ascending in the worldly life is a sign of decline in the spiritual realm.

A man leaves behind three people, a wife and two children and runs away to become a guru. He became tired of the three at home and so he goes and makes one hundred and eight disciples! Why did he leave the three behind and latch onto one hundred and eight? What was wrong with the other three? Are these hundred and eight better than those three? Now these new ones will make all the noise. Why have you started this nonsense?

## Have You Made Any Disciples or Not?

**Questioner** : Has Dada made anyone his disciple?

**Dadashri** : I sit here as a disciple of the whole world. I am a disciple of disciples. What do I need a disciple for? Why would I want to take on their responsibilities? There are fifty thousand people who follow me but I am a disciple to all of them.

## Are You a Guru or Not?

**Questioner** : So are you a guru or not?

**Dadashri** : No, I am a disciple of the whole world. Why would I want to be a guru?

**Questioner** : What if from today onwards I consider you as a true guru and surrender to you?

**Dadashri** : But I do not have time to become a guru. You just remain in the _Gnan_ that I give you and go to _moksha_ from here. How long will you wait to make a guru of me? There is no need to consider me as your guru. I will not allow the status of guru to be established. If I show you everything all the way to the end, then would there be any problems?

I do not become anybody's guru. What do I want from being a guru? I am a _Gnani Purush_. What does _'Gnani Purush'_ mean? It means an observatory! Whatever you want to know, you can know from him. Do you understand?

**Questioner** : Can a _Gnani_ not be a guru?

**Dadashri** : A _Gnani_ will never be anyone's guru. I am _lagutam_. How can I be a guru? One needs _buddhi_ to be a guru and I do not have any _buddhi_. Does a guru need _buddhi_ or not? What is more, I have written in my books I am _abuddha_ \- without intellect. Nobody in the world has called himself _abuddha_. I am the only and the first one to do so. I have truly become _abuddha_. You will not find a drop of _buddhi_ in me. My work gets done without any _buddhi_ , does it not?

## They Are All Gurus Through This Method

Do you find justice in this statement? When I say, "I am everyone's disciple," do you find justice in that statement?

**Questioner** : In what way are all these people your guru?

**Dadashri** : These are all my gurus because I will immediately accept everything they have acquired. They believe they are taking from Dada. I consider every being in this world as my guru, not just the fifty thousand who have taken _gnan_ form me. Every living being in this world is my guru. Wherever there is _satya_ (truth), I will accept that truth. If there is a dog passing by, I will accept the dog's truth also. Whoever has greater understanding than what I have, I will accept it. Do you understand this?

**Questioner** : So if you acquire anything from anyone, he or she or it, is your guru?

**Dadashri** : Yes. That way everyone is my guru. That is why I have made every living being of the world, my guru. You will have to make a guru, will you not? Everyone has knowledge. The Lord, Himself does not come here. He is not sitting idle that He will go back and forth for you.

## There is No Other Self-Form (svaroop) Than 'This'

**Questioner:** In which stage do you place yourself?

**Dadashri:** I think of myself as a disciple of the whole world and my form ( _svroop_ ) is _lagutam_ (the smallest of all). Besides this form, I do not have any other form. And the Lord Dada Bhagwan has manifest within.

## You only need to change your direction

**Questioner** : Currently in India, are there any other super and extraordinary human beings like yourself?

**Dadashri** : How would I know? You are looking for one so you may find one. I have not looked for one.

**Questioner** : You are at the peak so you would be able to see, would you not?

**Dadashri** : But how would I know if there is a peak higher than the one I am on? What did those who have been to every peak say? They all claim, "I am the only one that is on the highest peak," but I have never said that.

**Questioner** : But can you not see all those that are on a lower peak than yourself?

**Dadashri** : No, they cannot be seen however, they cannot be considered small, because it is the same thing. Because the peak that I am sitting on, I sit as being the smallest - lagutam, in the worldly life . In that which is called the 'worldly life', where people try to be _gurutam_ , I have become _lagutam_ there. What did those who try to become _gurutam_ (in worldly life) get in return? They went lower (in _nischayaa_ ; spiritually). In the worldly life, I became _lagutam_ and therefore I became _gurutam_ in _nischayaa_.

There is no one lower than I in the world, that is how _lagutam_ I am. One can be elevated to the status of God if he becomes _laghutam_. Still, I feel it is very bothersome to become God, on the contrary, I feel ashamed. I do not want that status. Why would I want it? And can that state be achieved in this time cycle? All kinds of people have claimed the status of God in this time cycle. On the contrary, that status can be abused. Why do I need that status? I am a _Gnani_ , is this status of a _Gnani_ any lesser? And I am a _Gnani_ in the form of a disciple of the whole world. I am a _lagutam Purush_. What status can be greater than this? There is no chance of falling from a _lagutam_ (lowest) state, which is how great this status is.

Anyone whoever becomes a disciple of the world will become _gurutam_. This is the only way. This sentence is telling you to change your direction. The effort you make in wanting to go higher and become _gurutam_ , is really a _gurutam_ ego that you walk around with. Instead, if you have a _lagutam_ ego of, "How can I become low?", then your _Gnan_ will blossom tremendously. A _gurutam_ ego will always bring a veil of ignorance over your _Gnan_ and a _lagutam_ ego will make it blossom.

Someone said, "Sir, you are great man." I told him, "You do not know me. You do not know my greatness. You will realize how great I am if you were to insult me." Would you not see a police-like authoritarian response if you were to use abusive language with me? If you say, "Who do you think you are?" realize that the policeman has arrived! If you see a policeman-like nature in me then realize that my greatness is there and if you do not see that in me, then that shows that I am _lagutam_.

So if someone insults me, I will tell him that his insults have no effect on me. I am even smaller than his insult. Therefore, find something that would affect me when you insult me. If you call me a donkey, I am much lower than that. Your mouth will get tired instead. Find a place of mine where your insults will have an effect on me. Mine is a very low place.

## The World Will Only Accept A Disciple of the World

So 'who' is this (in front of you)? It is a _lagutam Purush_. How can you have _darshan_ of a _lagutam Purush_? You cannot have such a _darshan_. Find me a person who is _lagutam_. I am the disciple of all these fifty thousand people. Do you understand? I do not make any disciples.

**Questioner** : What will happen if you do not have any disciples after you?

**Dadashri** : There is no need for it. I do not have any disciples but there are many who will cry and mourn. There are at least forty to fifty thousand people who will mourn.

**Questioner** : But who will come after you when you are gone?

**Dadashri:** Time will show you who that person is. I do not know anything and I do not have time to think about it.

**Questioner** : You say that there will be forty to fifty thousand who will mourn after you but no disciples. So what are you saying?

**Dadashri** : I do not have any disciples. This is not a throne. If it were a throne, then there would be an heir to it. People would come here to become heirs, would they not? Here, only the one, who becomes a disciple of the whole world, will succeed. Only he who the world accepts will succeed here.

## That is How This Akram Science is

This is not the path of a guru. This is not a religion or a sect. I have never been or never will be anyone's guru. I do not have the attributes of becoming a guru. I am giving you the same state that I am in. I have not maintained a guru-disciple state. Everywhere else, they maintain that control. What is the principle of the world? People will not let go of their control. There is no difference between you and me. You may feel a difference, but I do not. That is because 'I' (Self) am within you and in him too, so then how can there be any difference?

Actually, here there should not be a _Gurupurnima_ day (a day to revere the guru). People celebrate it as an instrument for having _darshan_. Here there is no ' _g_ uru' and no _'purnima'_ ! This is a state of _lagutam_. Here it is your own state; it is an _abheda_ state (non-discriminative, a state of oneness).

We are not different at all. When one becomes a guru, a difference of 'you and I; guru and disciple' is created. But here there is no custom of guru-disciple because this is _Akram_ _Vignan_ \- Stepless Science.

Jai Sat Chit Anand

The Awareness of the Eternal is Bliss

## Who is the Highest Guru?

One day Dadashri suggested to (told) Niru, 'Niruben', "Why don't you keep one disciple?" Niru responded, "Dada, why do you say this today? You have been saying all along that this _Gnan_ manifested in you after you became the disciple of every embodied soul of this world. So why are you asking me to become a guru today?" Dada, smiled and said, "But keep one disciple. What problem do you have in keeping one disciple?" So Niru said, "No, Dada. Let me remain at your feet, at your service. Why would I want to take on the responsibility of a disciple? I cannot afford to do that." Then Dadashri said, "But understand what I am saying. Do one thing. Make this 'Niruben' your disciple." Oh ho ho Dada! You did a wonderful thing. I experienced a direct clarification of _'Sahajatmaswarupap Param Guru_ ' (the natural Self is the absolute Guru). 'I' (the Self) am the guru and Niruben is the disciple. Then Dadashri clarified further, "Look Niruben, how much does a guru take care of his disciple? His constant focus is on how his disciple's progresses. That is how you have to take care of Niruben from now on. You have become _Shuddhatma_ (pure Self) but don't you now have to help Niruben go higher?" From that day, Dadashri started a relationship of guru-disciple between Niruben and me. That is when I had a direct realization of how incomprehensible the vision of a _Gnani_ is with reference to the guru-disciple relationship. Where is the worldly talk of making a guru and where is the talk of establishing your own soul as your guru? And truly, that is the real guru and he is the highest guru. Other gurus who are out there will instruct you for an hour or two and then go away. They go to their own homes and you to yours. Are we then likely to listen to that guru? Are we going to do as they tell us? This is your own _Atma_ that has manifested within you as your highest Guru and is there for you twenty-four hours. He is so alert that he will not allow you to deviate even a little bit from your path of liberation. Liberation is possible only through establishing such a guru. Otherwise, one has to keep on struggling. This is the ultimate line of demarcation between a guru and disciple.

\- Dr. Niruben Amin

Jai Sat Chit Anand

The Awareness of the Eternal is Bliss

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