[MUSIC PLAYING]
TIFFANY FRANCIS-BAKER: Thank
you for having me in Google.
CHRIS STONE: Thanks for coming.
So I suppose, to
start off, to ask,
tell us a bit about
the background
to you writing "Dark Skies"
and what went into that.
TIFFANY FRANCIS-BAKER:
Yeah, so it
was a bit of an
interesting idea I had.
Basically, my
then-boyfriend, now-husband--
hence the name
change, by the way--
he is a session musician.
So every now and
then, he goes off
on tour for a few weeks a year.
And I kind of have to spend a
lot of time at home on my own
with the dogs, which is fine.
I don't mind that.
And I remember one
evening in summer.
I live in the South Downs, which
is an international dark sky
reserve, so we have
amazing night skies.
Really, really
lucky that you can
be able to see the
stars real easily.
And I remember one evening I
was sitting in our old flat,
and I'd watched every Louis
Theroux documentary on Netflix,
and I was just so fed up of
just being inside every evening
watching my computer.
And I looked outside, and it
was this beautiful evening,
kind of dusk falling.
And I thought, do you know what?
I love walking.
I'm not really ready for bed.
I'm just going to go and drive
through Butser Hill, which
is where I live, and I'm
going to go for a walk,
because it's a really
lovely evening.
So I drove up
there, and I kind of
spent about an hour and a half
walking around Butser Hill just
watching the stars and just
listening to the landscape
and getting completely lost.
And eventually, I found my
way back and went home again.
But it was a really, really kind
of magical experience for me.
And it kind of got
me a little bit
hooked into this hidden
world after dark that we
so often don't really
explore unless we're drunk
or on a night shift.
CHRIS STONE: Awesome.
And then you spent,
what, about a year or so
traveling to various places
and having these experiences
and writing about them.
TIFFANY FRANCIS-BAKER: Yeah.
So it was about a year.
I kind of went around the
UK, mainly around the south,
but I did go around
other places as well,
just kind of exploring lots of
different habitats and places
after dark.
Mainly kind of
countryside landscapes,
but I also reflected
on my time in London
and wrote about visiting
the Greenwich observatory.
And then I also went
to northern France,
and I went to Norway
and Finland as well,
just to see the polar
night and the midnight sun,
just to kind of think
about different ways
we look at the nighttime that's
not necessarily [INAUDIBLE]
but that darkness.
CHRIS STONE: And I think there's
some quite unusual experiences
you talk about.
One of them I liked was
floating down the river
in a coracle, a one-man boat.
Is it the Dart, I
think, you were on?
TIFFANY FRANCIS-BAKER:
Yeah, the River Dart.
Yeah.
So yeah, I used to work--
there's a place called
Butser Ancient Farm
in Hampshire, which is lovely if
anyone ever wants to go there.
And I worked there
before I went freelance
as creative developer, which
is as vague as it sounds.
And I absolutely loved it.
And one of the things I kind
of got really interested in
was heritage crafts, because
they celebrate all things
prehistory and
ancient life there,
and they kind of have amazing
old buildings and rare breed
animals and stuff.
And I got really interested
in heritage crafts.
And I learned how to
carve a wooden spoon
and learned how to do
some blacksmithing.
It was so fun, and I got
really addicted to it.
And one day, someone
I was working with
said, oh, I've just booked on to
this workshop in the Chilterns.
I'm going to learn to
make a coracle in one day.
She was like, do
you want to come?
I was like, yes, obviously I do.
That sounds amazing.
So if anyone doesn't
know, a coracle
is like a kind of round,
slightly oval shape.
It's quite-- about
that big, probably,
and it's like a basket.
And they date right back to,
people think, the last ice age.
They're really, really, like,
prehistoric form of a boat.
And they're still
used in some kind
of older traditional places now,
but they're like a big basket.
And you sit in it and
you float down the river.
And it's really easy to
capsize, which I've discovered.
But yeah, I made one.
And it's really nice,
because the authentic way
of making them, you have
this wooden kind of cage.
And then you're meant to cover
it with either animal skins
or pitch tar stuff,
which obviously I
wasn't going to do because
I wanted it to last.
And I don't know,
I'm vegetarian.
I don't want to
use an animal skin.
So we used PVC lorry
lining instead.
Very authentic.
But it was great, because I've
bashed into a million rocks
and it still hasn't broken.
So yeah, it was really very fun.
And that was one
of the experiences
I loved most, actually.
We decided to go on this dusky
sail down the River Dart.
We thought it would be really
easy and plain sailing.
And the rapids are tiny, but
when you're in a coracle,
the rapids are huge.
And so we capsized
a million times.
I ended up gashing my
leg open on a rock,
and it was just the
best evening of my life.
It was great.
CHRIS STONE: An another
book is called "Dark Skies."
One of the chapters
is actually about kind
of the opposite of that,
where you went to Norway
in the summertime, where in the
very north inside the Arctic
Circle the sun never sets and
saw the midnight sun there.
And that must've been--
I've not done that, but quite
an experience, I imagine.
TIFFANY FRANCIS-BAKER: Yeah.
Actually, it was
Finland I went to.
Norway in the winter and
Finland in the summer, yeah.
So I went to Helsinki, which I
was surprised because I thought
I'd have to go further north
than that to see the midnight
sun.
But actually the whole of
Finland in midsummer is--
it doesn't really get dark.
It kind of gets dark
between 1:00 AM and 2:00 AM,
but it doesn't really get dark.
It kind of just gets
dawn light, and then it's
like, the sun's up again.
Another day.
You've had an hour's sleep.
But it was great.
And yeah, I wanted to go and
see the two cultures differently
and kind of
experience what it was
like to go and just live where
it's just constant sunlight.
And it was the most
brilliant experience.
Everyone was lovely.
I thought it was--
the whole place was just alive.
I feel like this--
because they have these
three months of darkness,
when the summer
comes around it's
like they're making up for it.
And they're like, right.
No more going to sleep
for three months.
We're just going to
have a great time.
And I went hiking in the
forests outside Helsinki.
And I got stuck for ages
chasing this black woodpecker.
I really love
birds, and there was
loads of these amazing
woodpeckers in the woods.
And there was this
black one that I
could hear thudding around me.
And I literally chased
it for about three hours,
because I was, I've got
to see this woodpecker.
And eventually I did
flush out of the clearing.
And it looks like a Nazgul
from "Lord of the Rings,"
because they don't
flap their wings.
It just glided
across the clearing.
I was like, [SHUDDERS]
It was really creepy,
but it was great.
It was so worth it.
But I actually
ended up chasing it
for so long, I missed my last
bus home back to Helsinki
and I had to hitchhike home
with a guy called Colin.
So if Colin, you're
watching this, thank you.
CHRIS STONE: Was Colin
[INAUDIBLE] complete fiction?
TIFFANY FRANCIS-BAKER: I
know, someone said that.
He was very blond,
so I don't know.
Yeah, but it was great.
The city was just amazing.
Everyone was out in the
middle of the night.
But it wasn't like a
night out here where
everyone's kind of
drunk and falling about.
It was kind of like
the middle of the day
when everyone's just
kind of having lunch
and there was music
playing, and it
was just this really lovely,
energetic, amazing atmosphere.
And I absolutely loved it.
CHRIS STONE: Yeah.
It sounds fantastic.
And then, as you say,
Norway then in the winter,
to the Arctic Circle
to see, I think,
see the northern lights then.
TIFFANY FRANCIS-BAKER: Yeah.
CHRIS STONE: And I
think you thought
you might read a little
passage from your book
about that experience.
TIFFANY FRANCIS-BAKER: I
can definitely do that.
Yeah, Norway was amazing.
I went to the city
of Tromso, which
I was told how to pronounce it.
Because I was like,
where is "Trom-zoh"?
And they're like,
no, it's "Trum-zuh."
So it's this really lovely
city in the Arctic Circle,
and it's got a
little university.
And it's really small, actually,
and it was really cozy.
And I went there for
a few days mainly
to see the polar night
to, again, experience
what it was like to live
in three months of darkness
and how people cope with that.
And obviously the
northern lights
was something I had my fingers
crossed I was going to see.
And as you can tell from the
front cover, I did see them.
So yeah, I thought I would read
a little bit, a little extract.
"My first night with
the aurora had given me
a taste for more so I
booked onto a group visit
to the edges of the city to go
'aurora hunting' by following
waves of
electromagnetic activity
across Troms County
in a little minibus.
Our group leader
and aurora expert,
Emiles, was from Latvia.
I asked him how
he coped in Norway
with three months
of darkness, and he
said he spent a lot
of time snowshoeing,
a recreational activity
involving hiking
through the snow using
specially made shoes.
Emiles had brought
snow suits for anyone
not wearing enough layers.
After half the group
had pulled them on,
we all piled into
the minibus and drove
towards the mountains.
The app I had on my
phone informed me
the conditions
were right tonight.
Via the app, I watched a
minute-by-minute update
of a map of northern
Europe that showed
high electromagnetic
activity with what
looked like a cloud
of nuclear waste
moving slowly towards Norway.
After 20 minutes
or so, we stopped
by the side of the road.
The eight of us
had been chatting
for the entire journey.
Most of us were jammed into
the middle of the vehicle,
so peering through the
windows was impossible.
As the doors rolled
open, out I fell,
landing underneath the most
majestic sky I had ever seen.
If I were to
compare the aura I'd
seen at Prestvannet lake"--
which was earlier in the book--
"to a freshwater stream
with colors bubbling
through the ether,
this aurora could only
be described as a frenzied,
blistering river of lava
that was ripping
the sky into pieces.
With the lights of the
city far behind us,
the air was ablaze with color.
Blues and greens still
shone from the core,
but along the edges, the burnt
pinks and oranges of grapefruit
zest and coral, the violet of
aubergines and mallow flowers.
The sky was open to us all,
and our hotchpotch group
of travelers from across
the globe joined together
for one moment to bathe
in electromagnetic beauty.
Emiles gathered up a pile of
logs from the back of the bus
and lit a fire on
the icy road, and we
watched the ice disintegrate
beneath the flames.
For the next hour,
we took it in turns
to wander beneath the aurora,
capturing long-exposure photos,
observing the ripples
and tides of light
as it streamed over our
heads like rainbows liberated
from their geometric
constraints.
We drank hot chocolate to
warm up, huddled by the fire
when the cold penetrated
too deeply into our bones
and sinews.
Beneath my ski jacket
and multiple layers,
I could feel the scratchy
heat of my merino jumper
against my bare
skin as I enjoyed
the hot trickle of chocolate
working its way to my stomach.
A French couple in
our group had started
dancing to electro swing
playing from their phone
to keep out the cold.
I hopped around the fire
with an Australian girl
who explained the
stars look different
on this side of the world."
CHRIS STONE: Thank you.
I think one of the things that
comes across reading your book
is that for most of us who
live in or around London
or in the southeast, it's
actually-- it's really quite
hard to see the proper night
sky because there's so much
light pollution.
But in a strange
way, that's actually
quite a modern thing, relatively
speaking, that even going back
maybe 200 years,
people would have
been much more accustomed
to seeing the stars,
to seeing the night sky.
And I wonder, what
do you think are
the positives of getting out,
out away from light pollution
and seeing the true night sky,
for those of us who do live
in urban light-polluted areas?
TIFFANY FRANCIS-BAKER: Yeah,
it's really interesting
because light pollution is--
it's an environmental
problem, but it's never really
very highly prioritized.
Because let's be
honest, we've got
a million other environmental
problems to think about.
And it is an important one.
And I think for the human
connection with nature,
it's important.
Because when I go out
and look at the stars--
without getting too hippy-dippy,
I love looking at the stars.
And firstly, it's
kind of two things.
It's kind of giving
me a sense of place
in the history of our time.
So you are looking at
the same stars that
are so old and ancient that our
ancestors 2,000 years ago were
looking at the same stars,
and they haven't changed.
And that's that connection
that we have with the past.
And similarly, 2,0000
years from now,
hopefully, there'll
be other humans
who have descended from us
looking at the same stars.
And that's a really,
really amazing connection.
And similarly, it's
the same connection
as people all around the
world looking at the stars.
We're all looking at the
same thing, not necessary
at the same time.
But I think also
looking at the universe
and looking at the
stars, we're quite a--
our species is a little bit
arrogant, let's be honest.
We kind of think the
world revolves around us.
And it doesn't.
And I think looking
at the universe
and the stars gives us such
a sense of insignificance
in a really good way.
Because it's really great to
humble ourselves and remind
ourselves that we're part of
this magnificent ecosystem
that's so fragile and so vast
and so intricate and subtle,
and we are just one
tiny part of that.
And I think that's a really,
really important thing
to remember.
And it's also, I find,
really reassuring,
because if my life
is insignificant,
so are my little problems.
You know, they're not
really that big a deal
in the vast scale
of the universe.
CHRIS STONE: That's
right, isn't it?
And from a practical point of
view, where should people go?
Like, where would you
go to see, to experience
dark skies in the south?
TIFFANY FRANCIS-BAKER:
I'm very lucky
because, yeah, the
South Downs where I live
has recently, just
a few years ago,
been designated an
International Dark Sky Reserve.
So we have really amazing
conditions for stargazing.
Especially Butser Hill.
I think that's the darkest
place in the South Downs,
that I've mentioned
at beginning.
So the whole of the
South Downs National Park
is amazing for stargazing.
They did all this amazing stuff.
I went to a
presentation about it,
and they had to do
all this crazy stuff,
like change all the light
bulbs in the streets
and turn all the street
lamps downwards so they
weren't reflecting up.
They did so much work.
And it's really
amazing, actually,
because it's really paid off.
And the South Downs
is so close to London,
I mean, it literally takes me
an hour to get from Petersfield,
where I live, to
London Waterloo.
So it's so easy just to get out
and spend a weekend out there.
But we have quite a few Dark
Sky Reserves around the country.
So there's-- Exmoor is one,
Brecon Beacons, where else?
There's quite a few up north.
Northumberland,
there's a lot of--
obviously Scotland.
But yeah, particularly
in the South,
I would really recommend
coming down to the South Downs
because it's a nice
place to visit anyway.
And if you spend
the weekend, you
can get out and hopefully
have clear skies
and see the really amazing
stars that we do have.
CHRIS STONE: One
of nice anecdotes
that struck me in your book
was about in Los Angeles
after the earthquake in 1994.
So they had an earthquake
and the power was cut,
and so at night
there was no lights.
And people were
phoning the police
saying there was a
weird cloud in the sky.
And it was the Milky Way.
They'd never seen the Milky Way.
TIFFANY FRANCIS-BAKER:
They'd just never seen it.
CHRIS STONE: Never seen it.
Didn't know what it was.
That was a-- yeah.
TIFFANY FRANCIS-BAKER:
Yeah, that is mad, isn't it?
CHRIS STONE: Imagine the same
thing happening in London.
TIFFANY FRANCIS-BAKER: Yeah.
CHRIS STONE: And so, changing
tack a bit, we just--
last week was Halloween.
And in your book you talk a
lot about-- or [? bitterly-- ?]
that's about the
earlier Gaelic festival.
Is it Sauin?
Is that how you pronounce it?
TIFFANY FRANCIS-BAKER:
Yeah, yeah, that's
how you pronounce it, yeah.
CHRIS STONE: And I
think there's definitely
a sense, isn't there, that
the night, and particularly
like the darker,
longer nights, are
when we're more kind
of readily frightened.
And we kind of get more-- sort
of the Halloween vibe comes on.
So I wonder, if you had
any thoughts about where
that comes from, and
any spooky experiences
during your research?
TIFFANY FRANCIS-BAKER: Yeah, I
mean, it's really interesting,
actually, our fear of the dark.
It's actually called
nyctophobia, I found out.
That's the word, means
fear of the dark.
And I think actually having
kind of read around it
and trying to
understand, it's actually
fear of what the dark conceals.
It's not really the dark itself.
It's because we can't
see what's in the dark.
And I think that is something
that's very inherently,
not just human, but for
any kind of diurnal species
that spends its
life out in the day
and then hides away
at night, the night
is a time to be predated
and to be scared.
But yeah, it's
really interesting,
this Halloween, Samhain
time, I definitely--
people are like, oh, do
you believe in ghosts
and that sort of thing?
I don't think I do.
But I have definitely had a
really couple of spooky times
writing this book.
I went to-- so I live on
the Hampshire-Sussex border.
And just over in Sussex, there's
a place called Kingley Vale,
which is said to be--
well, it's a big Yew forest.
It's beautiful.
It's like a nature reserve.
But it's said to be
haunted by Viking ghosts.
And I decided to go
on a nocturnal walk
through this Kingley Vale.
And it was quite frightening.
And I really like to think of
myself as a rational person,
I really do.
And I was like, don't worry.
It's just a fox,
it's just an owl.
Calm down.
But walking through this
forest in the middle
of the night with no moonlight,
and these Yew trees just
creeping over you, I
definitely got really spooked.
I didn't see a Viking ghost.
But, you know, he
might have just
been lurking out of my vision.
CHRIS STONE: I think
as well at night,
like, your senses, the
senses that you do have left,
so not your vision
but your hearing,
and your sense of smell,
all seem to be heightened,
don't they?
TIFFANY FRANCIS-BAKER: Yeah.
CHRIS STONE: So stuff is--
TIFFANY FRANCIS-BAKER:
Yeah, and it's great.
That's one of the
loveliest things about it.
Because we so rely
on our eyesight
because we have great eyesight
as humans, most of us do.
And so we're not very tuned
into the rest of our senses.
And they're so powerful.
They're almost just as
good as our eyes, really.
And it's amazing.
Once your eyesight
disappears, especially
if there's no moon--
if it's clouded over
and the moonlight
is not shining,
you literally can't see a thing.
And it's great because
you have to rely
on kind of what you're hearing,
and the sense of smell.
And it's amazing, this kind of--
I can't really describe it.
But when you're walking
along in the dark
with trees either
side of you, there's
something very
subconscious going on,
almost like kind of
echolocation where you
can sense where the trees are.
You can't see them.
And I'm not touching them.
But somehow, just what I'm
radiating off and then what's
reflecting back, you can
sense where everything is.
And it's this
really powerful way
of navigating through the
dark without your eyesight.
And it is actually a lot
easier than you think it is.
But you definitely
have to just accept
you can't see and just tune into
something a little bit deeper
and more primitive.
But it's good fun.
CHRIS STONE: Yeah, and maybe
it is exactly that, right?
That because light hasn't--
artificial light hasn't
been around for that long.
You know, if you go back
a few hundred years,
you would have had to rely
on those other senses.
They're still there.
But just we don't need them
now, so we don't use them.
TIFFANY FRANCIS-BAKER: Yeah.
CHRIS STONE: So the
muscle is wasted away.
TIFFANY FRANCIS-BAKER:
Yeah, definitely.
And I think it's easy
to romanticize the past
and be like, oh, they had
this amazing connection
with the night, which they did.
But obviously, they also had--
I mean, if you go
far enough back,
they had wolves, and
bears, and things.
So there were actually real
things to fear in the night.
Whereas today, actually
sadly, if you think about it,
the thing we really
fear is other humans.
That's really the only--
apart from falling
down a hole, that's
the only thing that
we're really genuinely
afraid of in the dark.
But yeah, I do think, just going
back just a few hundred years,
you're right.
They didn't have coffee.
They didn't have electricity
if you go back far enough.
And the night-- that's
what you actually
find in these Celtic
fire festivals
I wrote about, like
Beltane and Samhain,
and all these amazing Celtic
festivals, a lot of them, they
take place over
a 24-hour period.
It's not just something to
be celebrated in the day.
They all have a
nighttime part as well.
And it's all about embracing
the whole cycle of life,
and not just hiding
away in the dark.
Because they had no choice.
It was dark.
They might have had a fire
to kind of sit around.
But they couldn't
just go-- in winter.
You can't just go to
sleep when it gets dark.
Because you'll be asleep
for over half the day.
It would be ridiculous.
They had stuff to do.
Yeah, so it's
really interesting.
I'm very fascinated by that
kind of seasonal living
and connecting back to
kind of living more in sync
with the rhythms of
the day, if we can.
It's quite hard.
CHRIS STONE: What was your
most memorable dark sky
encounter, either
writing this book,
or before, or
indeed, since then?
TIFFANY FRANCIS-BAKER:
Obviously seeing
the Northern Lights was
something that I had basically
wanted to see since
I was about 10
when I read "His Dark
Materials" by Philip Pullman,
I was like, well, what
are these Northern Lights?
I've got to go to see them.
It took me 16 years.
But I got there.
That was a very
amazing experience.
But I also loved--
I went down-- so my friend Tom,
Tom Cox, he's another author.
And he used to live in Devon.
And he lived near where
they reintroduced beavers
into the river otter.
And he was like--
CHRIS STONE: [INAUDIBLE]
TIFFANY FRANCIS-BAKER:
Yeah, I know.
I know.
Didn't see any otters, sadly.
And I saw that he'd
been to see them.
And I said oh, I'm so jealous.
And he was like, I'll
show you where they are.
So I went and visited him.
And he showed me where
their little lodge was.
And there was
absolutely no guarantee
that we would see these beavers.
But we waited and waited.
And the dusk fell.
And finally, we heard this plop.
And one of the beavers came out
of the lodge and swam along.
And then another one came out.
And they were kind of-- we
just watched them for ages,
just busying
themselves around, kind
of dragging vegetation around.
And that was a really,
really amazing experience
because we hear so many
sad stories about wildlife
these days.
And beaver reintroduction has
been like, an outright success.
And to go and see
them, these creatures
that were made extinct--
they're native to the UK.
They were made
extinct 400 years ago.
But they're now back.
And the government is actually
allowing them to stay.
It's crazy.
So that's a really, really--
that was a really lovely thing
to go and see.
CHRIS STONE: Where do
they get the beavers from?
When do they then?
TIFFANY FRANCIS-BAKER: Well, the
first one in the river otter,
it was like enough
unofficially done.
So someone basically
snuck them into the river.
CHRIS STONE: Right.
TIFFANY FRANCIS-BAKER:
I think they
had been trying to do
these trials for ages,
to be like, beavers
are meant to be here.
They can help the flooding.
And the government
just didn't let them.
So someone was like, well,
I've had enough of this.
They just released some beavers.
And they were like,
well, they're there now.
But since then, I think
the government's been like,
OK, they're not--
they're OK.
And now there's actual--
I went to see as part of
my forestry commission
residency I've been doing,
I went to see beavers
in Cropton Forest in Yorkshire.
And that's an official trial.
So they've all been allowed out.
And they get them
either from Scotland,
because there's lots of beavers
in Scotland, or from Europe.
CHRIS STONE: Right.
TIFFANY FRANCIS-BAKER: Yeah.
CHRIS STONE: And so,
what's next for you?
What have you got, further
books in the pipeline
or further projects, or
what's on the agenda?
TIFFANY FRANCIS-BAKER:
Yeah, I have.
As a freelance creative, there's
lots of little things going on.
I have definitely been--
so, I've been finishing
off my writing project.
So I've been writer
residence for the Forestry
Commission this year,
which has been really fun.
And I kind of gave all
that in about a month ago.
So I'm just tying all that
off, which is really nice.
And then I have got
books, four or five,
muddling away in my head.
So hopefully I'll start
writing them soon.
But also, because I'm an
illustrator, I kind of just
reopened my online shop.
So I'm kind of trying
to get more into--
I do a lot of illustrative
poetry, that sort of thing,
trying to kind of
just spread that
around the world a bit more.
And I also have a
really cool project
for next year, which I want to
do nature-inspired wallpaper.
So yeah, so I got quite
a lot of things going on.
But yeah, so a few--
that's the problem when
you're vaguely creative.
Your ideas, just like,
all your ideas-- and you
have to just write them down
and try to think about them.
Otherwise you just
don't get anything done.
CHRIS STONE: Fantastic.
It's been really
nice talking to you.
I wonder if there's
any questions
they'd like to ask
Tiffany whilst we're here.
AUDIENCE: Going back to
that first fateful walk
and then the journey you've been
on since, what would you say
are the main things you've
changed in the way you
live your own life?
TIFFANY FRANCIS-BAKER: Well,
that's a great question.
So, definitely since I started--
so I would say that first walk
was around two years
ago, in terms of how long
it takes to write
and publish a book.
And in that time, just kind of--
I don't think it's coincidental
that I've kind of been
exploring this stuff.
But I've become really, really
interested in seasonal living
and just trying to
live more in connection
with the natural rhythms
of the day and the year.
So I've definitely--
it's very easy for me
to say that because
I'm freelance.
So I can do what I
want in my daytime,
and I can fluff about
and do whatever.
But I am really trying
to just kind of live more
in tune with the seasons
and the rhythms of the day.
Because we're one of the only
species that seems to think
it's OK to kind of power
through the whole year
as if every month is the same.
So we think July is the same
working conditions as December,
when other animals
are hibernating.
And then we wonder why we
get stressed and depressed.
It's just crazy that we're
like-- well, that's obvious,
you know?
Obviously, the modern world
is not so accommodating.
So it's not like I can
just be like, well, I'm not
going to work for three months.
But I am just trying to do
little things in my life
where I'm just trying to
be more observant of what's
going on around me
in the landscape,
just trying to slow down
a bit in the winter,
get a bit more
energy in the spring.
It's a journey I'm still on.
But that definitely sprung
from being more in tune
with the circadian rhythm,
and looking at light and dark.
Because, again, the
night is something
we kind of tend
to ignore or we're
very discouraged from exploring,
especially as a woman.
I used to-- when my mum
knew I was writing this,
I wouldn't tell her I
was going on a night walk
until after I'd been.
Because she'd be like, no.
But yeah, it's very
empowering being out at night.
Actually, I absolutely love it.
I love being out on my own.
And especially in the
countryside, I feel very safe.
And just being out
in the dark, and just
noticing what the night is like,
and not just thinking of night
as a time to just go to
sleep until tomorrow.
You know, it's a
whole hidden world.
And I'm just trying to be more
observant of the whole cycle,
really.
AUDIENCE: Hi.
TIFFANY FRANCIS-BAKER: Hi.
AUDIENCE: I'm curious
to know, how do you
collect your ideas when you--
like, from collected
ideas to sit down
and start actually
writing your book,
and I see that you, of course,
illustrate your own words.
So I'm curious to know--
TIFFANY FRANCIS-BAKER:
The process.
AUDIENCE: Yeah.
TIFFANY FRANCIS-BAKER:
Good question.
What do I do?
I tend to-- so I
do all the research
and just write terrible
notes, just scroll,
scroll, scroll notes,
either on my computer
or on Google Drive,
which I love.
And I tend to just
chuck all the notes.
I can't really start writing
until I feel like I have all
the content there in some form.
And then I'll sit down
and be like, right,
I've actually got to
make this readable now.
So I usually am very
methodical, actually.
I kind of start
from the beginning
and write until the end.
So I would love to be able to
dip into chapters be like, oh,
this needs tweaking.
But I am a little
bit anal about it.
I can't move on with something
until that bit's done.
And it's so stupid.
But I kind feel like, what if
I died halfway through writing?
And they thought that
this was my best work.
Like no, it's got to be perfect.
So it's ridiculous.
Because it's a really
slow process doing that.
But then I do know that when
I finish the first draft,
it's kind of done.
And yeah, I always
do the illustrations
afterwards because I
tend to just think, well,
I don't know what I'm
going to write about yet.
So then I can reflect
what's on there.
But yeah, I'm quite methodical.
I do things step by step.
Yeah, but I feel like it's not
always the most efficient way
to do it.
AUDIENCE: Thank you for this.
I have a question that's a
little bit different from what
you've been talking about
in terms of the night time
and rituals, not the religious,
or spiritual, or methodical,
reflective.
Given the fact that
I'm-- well, I'm American.
And I'm fascinated by Bonfire
Night, and the idea not just
of the fireworks
and celebration,
but children throwing
effigies on a bonfire.
It's just-- it was a little
disconcerting to me at first.
It's wonderful tradition.
But I wonder if you
have any reflections
on something like that?
TIFFANY FRANCIS-BAKER: That's
a great question, actually.
I was thinking-- I was walking
along one of the bridges,
and going past the
House of Parliament.
I was like, oh, it's
the Fifth of November
and I'm walking past Parliament.
What a weird coincidence.
That is a great question.
I am no historian
of British culture.
But I do think having
looked at the Celtic fire
festivals, which are what
so many of our traditions
are rooted in, the fire
was part of every festival
as part of the year.
And fire is seen as
a cleansing power.
So it's seen as a member--
Beltane, for example, everyone
would out all their fires
in their house.
And they'd light
this Beltane bonfire.
And then they would relight
all their household fires
from that one fire.
And it was seen as a very
energizing, cleansing, powerful
thing fire.
So I feel like maybe that's
kind of where it comes from.
Obviously, that
predates Guy Fawkes.
So I don't really know
who decided to start
burning Guy Fawkes dummies.
That would be
really fascinating--
I'm sure someone's written
a book on it somewhere.
But it's a really good
question for this time of year.
And things like fireworks, and
sparklers, and all that sort
of stuff, it's something
that we are very drawn to
in the dark when we light
up the dark in that way,
and it's a real--
I think it must be a
psychological thing.
And when I was in
Norway, especially
in the three months of
darkness, everything--
it was really beautiful
because the way
they kind of combated
it was everything--
there's this really
trendy word, hygge,
which means kind of
cozy in Norwegian--
or I think it's Norwegian.
CHRIS STONE: Swedish?
TIFFANY FRANCIS-BAKER: Swedish?
Yeah, some
Scandinavian language.
But it's this lovely concept
of cozifying everything.
And it's all about
embracing that darkness
and walking along this High
Street in [INAUDIBLE],, where
all the windows were
full of fairy lights,
and candles, and all
this sort of thing.
And there's definitely something
that we're very drawn to,
having light in the darkness.
And you can think about sitting
around a fire in the dark,
you know, 3,000 years
ago, and how powerful that
would have been.
So yeah, I felt some
connection there.
But I am not a
historian of Guy Fawkes.
AUDIENCE: You mentioned
you love animals.
Do you find that animals
behave differently in darkness?
TIFFANY FRANCIS-BAKER:
Yeah, I mean,
generally wild animals tend to--
they are either kind of out
in the day or out in night.
Some of them cross
over, like foxes.
But most things are either
kind of in one or the other.
And I did find it
really fascinating kind
of getting to know the
animals of the night
because I love owls,
and badgers, and things.
But I don't really see
them much because they just
go to sleep like
everyone else does.
Yeah, so I definitely do.
But actually, the funny thing
is most nocturnal animals,
all their kind of busy behavior
that we might see him doing,
actually tends to
happen at dusk and dawn,
right in the middle
of the night.
Actually not that much is
going on because they've
kind of done all that bit.
And they're just chilling out.
And they do some
more in the morning.
But I definitely noticed
my dogs behave differently
in the night.
They just sleep.
I'm like, I was expecting--
I remember I put a little
[INAUDIBLE] around my house
once to see what they
did in the night.
And they just slept all night.
I was really disappointed.
CHRIS STONE: Thank you very much
for coming in, Tiffany Francis
Baker, thank you.
TIFFANY FRANCIS-BAKER:
Thank you.
Thanks very much.
[APPLAUSE]
