JAMIL MOLEDINA: Hi, everyone.
I'm Jamil Moledina from
the Google Play team.
Glad you could all stick
around for the end.
We've got a really
fun session here
for you anchoring the
end of the session.
To my left is Mike Festa, who
is the director of Wayfair Next,
and Tatsuo Nomura, who is
the senior product manager
on Pokemon GO from Niantic.
And you know, that kind
of is the official titles.
But of course, there's so much
more to what you actually do.
I'm wondering if you can give
us a little bit of a background
about your road to
get here, and what it
is that you're actually doing.
Starting with you, Matt.
MATT FESTA: Yeah.
Absolutely.
Thank you again for having us.
So I work at Wayfair.
We sell furniture online.
And I created the team
called Wayfair Next.
It's essentially
the R&D department
internally at Wayfair.
And we were looking at cutting
edge technologies, like Tango
and Daydream, for AR and VR.
And I think it's a great fit.
Because we're selling
products online.
We don't have a store.
You can't come in and see
the couch and sit on it.
But this is, I think, one
of the next best things
that we can offer.
And so I started my
team about a year ago.
It was kind of coming off of
a successful hackathon using
the Google Tango
development kit.
And people internally
got excited about it
and said, you know,
let's make a team
and make this an
important endeavor for us.
JAMIL MOLEDINA: But taking
it a little bit further back
in time.
How did you get
inspired with AR?
What was it that was interesting
that got you on that track
to even present it
in the hackathon?
MATT FESTA: Oh sure.
Yeah.
So I've always been
interested in AR and VR,
as long as I can remember,
since being a kid
and seeing all these promises
of VR and virtual worlds.
And "The Matrix" is a
big inspiration for me.
I feel like I've been following
the technology for a long time.
I was one of the early
founders or backers of Oculus,
before they did a Kickstarter.
And I've been playing with
these types of technologies.
So when I saw the Tango
video, I naturally
signed up immediately.
And I had a Tango devkit, but
I hadn't had the opportunity
to really take the time
out of my personal life
and actually write an app or do
something interesting with it,
even though I really wanted to.
And so then the Wayfair
hackathon came up.
And I said, I know just
the thing I'm going to do.
And that's use
this AR technology
to show how it can apply to
what we do and sell furniture.
JAMIL MOLEDINA: Makes sense.
Tatsuo, how about you?
What's your story?
TATSUO NOMURA: So
I studied in Japan.
I went to grad school in Japan.
And after I graduated,
I joined Google Japan.
And then I spent about a year
there as a software engineer.
Then I moved to us to Google
headquarters in Mountain View.
And I joined Google
Mobile Maps team.
And then after that, I
joined this internal startup
called Niantic 9 which
later became Niantic.
That's how I got involved.
JAMIL MOLEDINA: Now,
you had the good fortune
to become involved with a
company that was already
working in AR.
Mike, your situation
is probably more
familiar to a lot of the
folks in the audience,
where you're working
with a company that
has a business on Google Play.
But you wanted to bring
AR to the product.
How did you-- I mean, so you
had this successful hackathon.
How did you go about
working with your management
to develop an AR product?
MATT FESTA: Yeah, absolutely.
So it can be a tough sell for
a product that doesn't exist,
that may never exist, that's out
there in this kind of prototype
form.
But I think what really
sold it internally
was that the key benefit--
or the differentiator
between this technology and
what we have currently--
was so profound that it
really enabled the shopping
experience at home to be
better than at the store.
So when you think about, I want
to buy a new couch-- you've
got to measure the space.
You've got to figure out how
it's going to fit in your home.
Then you've got to
go to the store.
You've got to see the product.
Imagine it in your space.
And oftentimes, you go
to a furniture store,
and it's like huge ceilings.
And you get the big,
spaced out things.
And the giant couch looks small,
until you get it in your home.
And then you realize
it's too big.
So I thought that was a great
use case for us, to say,
here's the exact product
in your space fitting
exactly as it needs to fit.
And I think the
long-term vision for that
is that this technology
is going to be
in every phone in the next
five years, let's say.
And we want to be
ahead of the curve.
We want to start producing
3D models and 3D content,
so that by the time everybody
actually has the technology,
our entire catalog is covered.
JAMIL MOLEDINA:
That makes sense.
I mean, a lot of people hesitate
to buy furniture online.
I actually did buy
a couch on Wayfair.
But I can imagine
a lot of people
would kind of
stumble through that,
not being able to
place it in their home.
MATT FESTA: Right.
And it's only about
7% of furniture sales
that happen online today.
It's one of the
last remaining brick
and mortar businesses that
is still not going to online.
We've seen in the
last decade, or even
almost two decades, more
and more consumer goods
going online, especially things
that you don't necessarily
need to see or touch.
Like if you need to order
batteries or paper towels,
it's easy to just
buy those on Amazon.
Because you know exactly
what you're getting,
especially repeat
purchases like that.
With furniture, it's
a little different.
It's very unique.
It's personal.
You care about how it looks.
And I think one of
the interesting things
that Wayfair offers
is a huge selection.
So we have over 7
million products.
And any taste and style
that you can think of,
we have that product online.
Versus the traditional
store where you go in
and what you see
is what you get.
Basically there's a
limited amount of space
you can put the product in.
Yet it's only 7% right now.
And I think part
of the barrier is
that you want to
see exactly how it's
going to look in your space.
And then you want to be
able to sit on and touch it.
And that's another, even more
future-facing technology.
But I feel like, you
know, one win at a time.
JAMIL MOLEDINA: Yeah.
MATT FESTA: And getting
the AR use case of this
is how it's going
to look is only
going to accelerate
that shift online.
JAMIL MOLEDINA: So opening
up that larger market was
something that you
kind of identified.
Now Tatsuo, one of
the things that you've
been working on-- so granted,
Niantic was already into AR.
But working with Pokemon was
something that you already
had an experience with.
Could you talk a
little bit about that?
TATSUO NOMURA: Right.
So as I explained, I was
working for Google Maps team
before joining Niantic.
And every year, we would do
this April Fools project.
"Project"-- I mean, it's
more like a joke thing.
In 2012, we did this thing
called Google Maps 8-bit.
Basically, we turned the whole
map into a classic video game--
Nintendo theme.
That was my project.
And that went pretty well.
And everybody loved it.
Since then, people started
to ask me to do April Fools.
And the following year,
we did another one.
It's called Google
Maps Treasure Mode.
So basically we turned the map.
It now leads to a
treasure map looking.
And we hid like monsters
and treasures for people
to look for.
And then the
following year, that's
when I started working on Google
Maps Mobile, the Android Maps.
And we were talking about
what to do for April Fools.
And I came up with this idea.
What if I have the
Pokemon on the maps?
I played a lot of video
games growing up, of course.
You know, "Pokemon," "Street
Fighter," "Final Fantasy,"
all these games.
And every year, I was
thinking in terms of gaming.
So that year I came up with
the idea of doing Pokemon.
And we did this on
the Google Maps.
And that got pretty-- we
generated a quite big buzz.
And at the same time, there
was this internal startup
called Niantic
Labs within Google
that John Hanke was leading.
And Niantic had a
product-- still has
a product-- called Ingress,
which is an AR game where
you go outside to play.
And he contacted me
after the April Fools.
So he asked, Tatsuo, do you
think we can do something
with Pokemon?
You know, Pokemon
in the real world?
Whether that would make sense.
And of course, right?
Because I played the
game when I was little,
I watched all the anime,
all the movies, right?
I basically was imagining
myself having this fantasy
that I am Ash and going
out to catch them all.
So that immediately clicked.
So I took John to go to Japan
to meet the Pokemon people.
There's a company called
the Pokemon Company.
They own the IP.
So we went there.
We introduced Ingress and the
concept of real-world gaming.
And they very much
loved the idea as well.
That's how we started.
We decided to do this together.
And we started the project.
JAMIL MOLEDINA: I
mean, the natural fit
seems to be a really
common characteristic here.
Because the original
Pokemon game
has you finding Pokemon in
the world and capturing them.
And of course, you know,
placing furniture in your home
is what you
naturally want to do.
It seems that having that
fit to what people want to do
was a really kind of
driving factor, as opposed
to the technology for
the technology's sake.
MATT FESTA: Yeah.
And I think companies that
want to embrace AR just
for the flash or
for the buzz-- they
might have some initial
interest or success.
And I think that's great
and exciting to get out
there and experiment with it.
But at the end of
the day, you have
to make sure you're answering
a core business need as well.
It's like, how can this
technology make our offering
better to the company?
Or how can we make our gameplay
more engaging or interesting?
And as long as you're
solving those problems,
then I think you'll be
successful in the long run.
JAMIL MOLEDINA: Great.
So--
TATSUO NOMURA: Yeah.
I mean totally.
So I think for Niantic,
our mission is "adventures
on foot with others."
So what we are
really trying to do
is not necessarily
this gimmicky AR thing.
What we're trying to do is
to bring people to outside,
to explore, to exercise, to
communicate with other people.
That's our core value.
And we achieve that
by using this AR that
happened to be the
right timing and right
fit for the IP and everything.
JAMIL MOLEDINA: So
it sounds like you're
more about enriching
the lives of the people
playing and using the apps.
I mean, it's
providing something.
The technology is simply a tool.
But what you're actually trying
to do is enrich their lives.
TATSUO NOMURA: Yeah, absolutely.
JAMIL MOLEDINA: Cool.
MATT FESTA: Yeah.
Definitely.
So you know, since
you're both the product
owners of your
respective app and game,
I'm wondering if we could have
a little bit of a discussion
about what the design and
production and development
challenges were.
So let's take design first.
So was there something
about your hypothesis
of the design of each
of your products,
that you found along the
way you needed to change?
Or that you learned
in the process
of creating needed to be
changed in terms of the design?
MATT FESTA: Mhm.
Yeah, absolutely.
So one of the things we like
to do now is open office hours.
So at the end of the week on
Fridays from 3:00 to 5:00,
we invite people
throughout the company--
we have 3,000 employees in
Boston-- to just come up
and play around and
see what we're doing.
And that's been
great user testing.
Because we can get
this hands-on test.
Especially with Tango,
where it's something
we can't just send out
to people's devices.
We actually have to see
them interact with it
and give them the device.
But getting outside
of engineering,
and getting people that
are working with products,
and they're shopping
at home, and they're
organizing these
categories-- getting
them to use the app was really
rewarding and interesting.
And I think we iterated a
lot on the UI and the design
based on those conversations
and that feedback.
And working with people,
just giving them the device
and not saying anything.
Saying, go.
Use it.
Seeing where the pitfalls
were, what gestures
work-- like for example, we
had a two-finger rotation thing
first.
So you swipe left and right
to rotate the product.
No one could figure that out.
We realized everyone
was trying to circle--
do the circle rotate-- even
though it didn't necessarily
match what we were thinking.
And when we switched to that,
we found that people naturally
got it a lot faster. in So
in little things like that,
I think the user
testing goes a long way.
JAMIL MOLEDINA: Right on.
Tatsuo?
TATSUO NOMURA: I guess for
us, one of the big things
is when we started
the project, we
thought we could just have
the Pokemon running around
on the map.
We tried it.
Obviously, it didn't work.
Because we have to-- I
have to-- as a player,
running around
chasing Pokemon just
doesn't work in the real world.
That's something we found out.
But in terms of
design, because it's
a game we expect people
to play in the outside,
we really tried hard to make
the whole gestures or UI
reachable from your thumb.
That's why the Pokemon
game-- you open
and most of the
major tasks you can
accomplish by just one finger.
That's something we
tried really hard.
And with that, we-- there's
one unique gesture in our game
where you can use one
finger to rotate the map.
Even internally,
we had some debate.
Some people were
thinking, that is not
something people are used to.
Maybe we should not do it.
But after we implemented and
tested with various people,
everybody liked it.
And we decided to do that.
So there are a lot of-- like
what you said-- trial and error
during the process.
JAMIL MOLEDINA:
But in your case,
though, it seems like there
was quite a bit more involved
with the throw mechanic.
So I mean, people of all
ages-- kids, my parents--
I mean everyone seems to
naturally get that and get
a lot of thrill out of that.
But it wasn't a
very simple thing.
Right?
TATSUO NOMURA: Right.
Yeah.
Yeah.
That part actually
was pretty hard.
Even-- if you're thinking it's
just flicking your finger,
how hard that is?
But it took-- I think we did
three or four iterations just
to get it right.
Because on the phone,
different people
have different phone size and
have different resolution.
So to make it work
across the devices-- that
was very challenging.
I think we can still improve it.
But one of the things
that really was difficult
is the rate of the sampling.
We're using Unity in our app.
The Unity sampler has
some room for improvement.
So we had to work around it to
make sure that when you flick,
it goes-- it's a
2D mapping to 3D.
So making sure that you feel
like you are doing it right.
JAMIL MOLEDINA: OK.
Now you're working with
Tango for the first time.
AR is still a relatively
new technology.
Did you encounter any impact
to your production schedule,
or to your budget, in kind
of working through some
of the kinks of AR?
MATT FESTA: I don't
know that we had.
I mean, our team's a little
bit unique in the sense
that we're a dedicated R&D team.
So it's kind of
expected that we're
going to be hacking
things together
and working with teams.
Like Google, for example,
was working closely with us
to identify issues for
the Tango Core and things
that the device was
doing at a lower level.
And so that was, I think,
for us, going into it,
kind of expected.
We weren't looking for
this perfect out-of-the-box
solution.
It was more like, OK.
We're going to be investing
R&D into cutting edge tech.
So one of the things
that comes with that
is this kind of unknown
around development time.
In general, as an
engineer, I find
that a lot of times
it's really hard
to estimate how long
a particular task is
going to take.
Because you might come
to a quick conclusion.
Or something might just work.
And that's awesome.
But a lot of times it doesn't.
And then you have to kind of
investigate, and pick and poke
and figure out why
something that isn't working
isn't working.
And then eventually you
get to your solution.
And it's great to
be an engineer.
It's fun to get
that eureka moment.
But there's a lot of
time where there's
that kind of unknown window
of, is this going to work?
Am I doing the right thing?
Is this our code or
is this Google's code?
Is this a device problem?
And I think a lot
of that stuff has
been ironed out at this point.
Which is great.
But over the last, let's
say, eight months or so,
while we were doing
the core development,
it was one of those things
that we just kind of kept--
trial and error,
see what worked,
and try to make changes
and improvements.
And now it's super-solid.
So it's been great.
JAMIL MOLEDINA: What would you
recommend to people developing
AR with Tango?
What would you suggest that they
plan for the core development
window?
MATT FESTA: Yeah.
I mean, I think the
first thing to do
is to actually just get a device
in your hands, in your office.
And start showing people
some of the existing
apps that are out there.
And then with that device,
have your developers--
you know, we use Unity.
I think a lot of companies do.
These guys are
using Unity as well.
Try the Unity toolkit.
Because Google provides a
great starting point in Unity,
where you can basically
plug in your device.
Load up the sample apps.
Make some changes.
So for my hackathon, that's
essentially what I did.
I used the Google AR code.
And I actually spent
more time on my hackathon
just drawing and
modeling the products
so that they looked
good than actually
worrying about the room mapping
and the AR portion of it.
Unity just gives you a camera
that follows the device
as you move it around.
So I think that's the
great way to get into it.
Just experiment with it.
And if you feel like there's
a match for the technology,
then think about, OK.
What's the core product
that we're going to develop?
And it's not that unlike
developing for Android
or developing for gaming,
in terms of the technology.
Because Google handles most of
the underlying learning portion
of it for you.
JAMIL MOLEDINA: Right on.
Tatsuo, what about you?
I mean, were there
any stumbling blocks?
TATSUO NOMURA: Let's see.
So because we started
as-- Niantic is always
focusing on AR.
So it's not like bringing
in AR will affect us.
We started as an AR.
But I can talk a little
more about the specifics.
Like for example,
the camera overlay--
you have the Pikachu standing
in front of the camera,
and then react to your Gyro.
That is actually not
that hard, right?
It's pretty rudimentary.
So you just put
your object there.
Of course, we have
to do some tuning
to make sure it
looks good and works.
You know, depending on
what size of the Pokemon,
it looks correct and everything.
But that part wasn't very hard.
But another major
component of Pokemon GO
is these PokeStops and Gyms.
Those are real-world locations.
Like probably this
one-- there are
a lot of PokeStops
around this area as well.
We collected all this data for
the past three, four years,
with Ingress.
So Ingress users would submit
this what we call portal data.
When we started
Pokemon GO, we already
had like a
multi-million locations.
That's something I think we
took a long time to build up.
But once we have it,
that is a foundation
we had to have in order
to build Pokemon GO.
MATT FESTA: I think that
brings up an interesting point.
And that's around the content.
And so the development
of the app is one thing.
But the development
of the content
can then also make or break your
business model or your plan.
And that's one of the things
that we found at Wayfair.
We sell 7 million
products, as I mentioned.
And we started this without
having really any 3D models.
For my hackathon, I was
drawing stuff in the office.
And one of the reasons that my
team was able to get created
was because internally, we had
discovered that for our photo
studio, we're basically
taking in products,
setting them up nicely,
taking a picture.
And that whole process was
relatively slow and expensive.
Internally, one
of our co-founders
was working on a new
project to basically make
3D models of the products
for use in 3D renderings.
So they came up with
this business use case
that, oh, we can, for
a fraction of the cost,
render out a product.
And then we have that
3D product for use
in the future, for
whatever other environment
we want to pull it into for
these photorealistic catalog
shoots.
So because they were creating
the 3D content for that,
it enabled my team to basically
say, we have 3D models.
Now we can do AR.
But without 3D
content, in our case,
we wouldn't have
really had anything.
And so making the
app is one thing.
But supporting it with content
is in some cases the larger
challenge.
JAMIL MOLEDINA: Was that
an internally developed
3D modeler?
MATT FESTA: So what
we did is added up--
we were using various
outsourcing opportunities.
And now we're partnering
with different companies
that specialize in 3D
content production.
JAMIL MOLEDINA: Great.
MATT FESTA: And so on average,
it costs about $25 for us
to model a 3D product.
And it's cost savings
over the photography.
But my team is also
developing a 3D scanning
technology that I
think will further
drive down costs, and
ultimately push that technology
into the hands of our
suppliers and vendors
that have the products
in their facilities.
And they can do that for us.
So I think ultimately, when
we think about AR and VR,
a lot of it's going to
be about the content.
And people need to think about
the 3D aspect of the content.
In a lot of ways, this is like
the web in the early days.
When you wanted to start selling
stuff online, it's like, oh.
What do I need to sell a
product on the internet?
I need a picture.
I need some descriptions
and pricing.
JAMIL MOLEDINA: Sure
MATT FESTA: And I think if
we want to sell stuff in AR,
we need a 3D model.
And that's something that
in some cases, exists.
Because it's drawn in CAD.
But in other use cases,
it doesn't, like in ours.
For most of our products,
they don't exist in 3D.
So that's an
additional challenge
that we've been
trying to address.
And I think over
the next few years
we'll see the
technology get there
so that almost every
product is going
to have a 3D representation.
But think about your
application and what content
you're going to need for it.
JAMIL MOLEDINA: Yeah.
And it sounds like
Unity was helpful
to you as well in that process.
MATT FESTA: Mhm.
JAMIL MOLEDINA:
Tatsuo, I'm wondering,
were there any third party
tools or outsourcing resources
or anything else
happening around you
guys that was helpful to you,
that you basically relied on
in some capacity?
TATSUO NOMURA: Yeah.
So the 3D models, right?
Leg We had this 3D model
from Pokemon company.
Because they already created
these 700 and more creatures.
JAMIL MOLEDINA: Sure.
TATSUO NOMURA: We
have that already.
And in terms of tools, we use
Unity, as I described before.
And on the client side, we
also developed our own plugin
to render the map.
And on top of that,
on the back end,
our servers use Google Cloud--
JAMIL MOLEDINA: Yes.
TATSUO NOMURA: Google
Cloud Engine, excuse me.
Yeah.
And that definitely enabled
us to scale the game
to the scale we have today.
And the Google team has been
really, really supportive
to us.
So yeah.
We've been grateful.
MATT FESTA: As have we.
JAMIL MOLEDINA: So actually,
let's jump to that moment.
So Tatsuo, your game
comes out on a Friday,
without featuring,
without anything.
Walk us through what happened
that day in your office.
TATSUO NOMURA: Let's see.
We launched the game in New
Zealand and Australia first.
JAMIL MOLEDINA: Oh, yes.
Yes.
TATSUO NOMURA: We didn't
do any advertisement.
Because we were worried that
we will get too much traffic.
We wanted to expand it slowly
to make sure our servers don't
melt down.
So we started in New
Zealand, Australia.
When you push the
bottom on Google Play,
it takes a couple minutes--
or actually longer,
like an hour-- to propagate.
And for people to find
out, it takes a lot longer.
So we just clicked
on the button.
And we started
monitoring the graph.
And nothing happened
for a while.
And we were like,
eh, are people--
we became a little bit
nervous, watching the graph.
But after a couple
hours, we started
to see the graph just
going up and up and up.
It doesn't stop.
Just keep going up.
And the next morning,
we came to the office.
And our engineering manager--
I'm the product manager.
Our engineering
manager announced
that if we keep this rate, we're
going to have like-- anyway,
a crazy number of users.
And we were still--
the previous day,
we were still looking at
the graph didn't move much.
And we were a little skeptical.
We're like, no.
We're not going to
get that many users.
But during the day, the
graph just keeps going up.
And we started
seeing online, people
started to do this
event among themselves,
like user-organized events.
In Sydney, we saw like
3,000 people just gathered.
Started walking, crawling
the city, to catch Pokemon.
And that's when I
think we found out
this is going a little
crazier than what we expected.
And that's the day, actually--
the following day after the New
Zealand Australia launch,
we launched in the US.
And after we launched it, I
went back home from the office.
And that was, I think, right
after we clicked the button.
I just went back home, after
monitoring for like 20 minutes.
And I bumped into this person
who was holding the phone
and doing this.
And immediately I knew she
was playing Pokemon GO.
And I was so happy that
I couldn't stop myself.
You know, I just
walked into her.
I asked, are you
playing Pokemon GO?
I think I probably
looked really creepy.
Because I was all smiles on my
face, and asking about her--
how do you like it?
And how do you find
it and everything?
And a few days later, we
saw the Pokemon crawl happen
in San Francisco as well.
There were like about 5,000
people gathered in the market,
walking from the Ferry Building.
I joined them as a user.
And I see everyone was cheering.
And a lot of people had cosplay
in Pokemon and the teams.
That was really, really
a happy moment of mine.
JAMIL MOLEDINA: Yeah.
That was extraordinary.
We were talking
about this backstage.
We remember where we were
when Pokemon exploded.
And certainly in terms
of our relationship,
we were-- Maria Essig and I
were noticing that everyone
around us was playing it.
We go out on the street.
Everyone is playing it.
So that speaks to a
very specific metric
that is important to Niantic.
So conventionally,
we're always talking
about installs and revenue.
But there's also
something else that
is as important, if
not more important,
that you guys are tracking.
Right?
TATSUO NOMURA: Yeah.
Absolutely.
I mean, in terms of downloads
and the traditional stats,
I think in September we had
like 500 million downloads.
That is a great number.
But there's a very
unique number to us.
Up to, I think, September,
we had that people walked
a total 4.6 billion kilometers.
I don't know how
many miles is that.
But that's like
from here to Pluto.
It's a crazy number.
So that number is
very, very unique,
and I think important to us.
Because what we are trying to
do is really-- our core value
is to take people outside.
Exercise, communicate,
and be healthier.
Right?
That's what we are
trying to really do.
You know, the game is
just a form of expression,
if you will.
And we also keep articles and
hearing from other people--
like we see people
in the hospital using
Pokemon GO in the
hospital to help
kids doing physical therapy.
And we also see examples of
kids suffering from autism
were able to use Pokemon
GO to communicate
with even strangers.
And that is really
just-- I feel very
happy that I can have
some impact to someone's
life in a positive way.
And recently I think it
was Stanford and Microsoft.
They published a study
saying that Pokemon
GO users-- we extended
Pokemon GO players' life
expectancy by like 43 days.
MATT FESTA: Wow.
TATSUO NOMURA: So all
those numbers, I think,
are very important to us
than the traditional stats.
JAMIL MOLEDINA: Yeah.
It sounds like it has
more to do with caring
for the people playing your
game than actually tracking
conventional metrics.
And you know, in a
funny way this also maps
to what we were talking
about a little bit.
It's not so much about
the installs for you
either, at least at
an initial level.
How are you guys measuring
impact and success?
MATT FESTA: Yeah.
So certainly we have
the long-term view
that this technology is
going to be there eventually.
And we want to start building
our 3D product catalog.
And the devices are
just available now.
I have one of the
Lenovo devices here.
So you can buy them now.
And it will be interesting to
see what the adoption rate is
for that particular device.
But no one's expecting any
ROI on what we've done so far.
It's like, oh, this is an
interesting experiment.
And in the long term,
we see the value.
In the short term, it's been
a lot more about publicity
for the company and
just showing that we're
a forward-thinking tech company.
Oftentimes, you
think of Wayfair,
you think of furniture.
You think of the
shopping experience.
But at our core, we consider
ourselves a tech company
that happens to sell furniture.
And so I think by doing
this type of initiative,
it's a great way for not
only recruiting but also
community awareness
that oh, Wayfair's
a tech anchor in Boston.
And these guys are doing some
really interesting stuff.
And then they learn
about what we're doing.
But then there are so many other
interesting things internally
that are going on,
like in our data
analytics and other
teams that are building
all kinds of crazy products.
And this is kind of like a
way to get people's attention
and then show a lot of
publicity for the company.
JAMIL MOLEDINA: Sounds great.
So I'm gonna take a
slightly different tack now.
So both of your
products are out.
Let's pretend I'm
Q. You're Picard.
I have the ability
to redo your mission.
Let's go back to the
beginning of your mission.
What would you do
differently now,
based on what you know,
having shipped your product?
MATT FESTA: Yeah.
So for me personally,
it goes back
to that kind of
product model category.
And now that we get
the device out there,
we have 10,000
products digitized.
Seeing those products,
it's like, oh,
I wish we had 3D scanned
all of them, for example.
We're hand modeling
the products.
And that leaves a certain sense
of artistic design, let's say.
Because basically
the 3D modeller
is looking at photo references.
And they're not necessarily
looking at the real products.
They're just looking at
photos of that product.
Whereas the 3D scanning
technology we're developing
is millimeter accurate
looks photorealistic.
And it's an actual great
representation of the product.
So I'm really excited
about the future for that.
But I wish we could have
done that from the beginning,
rather than had this
intermediary step of hand
modeling all the products.
But the scanning technology
is something that's
constantly being developed.
Google had an internal
scanning company as well,
that I guess got the
axe, unfortunately.
But it's one of those
technologies that's really
promising for the right product,
and then really challenging
for the wrong product.
Like this end table
wouldn't scan well.
Because it's all white.
And when you try
to reconstruct it,
there's no good references
to get it looking good.
So we're working on
techniques to kind of enhance
the scanning process.
But I wish we could
have had that--
what we have today--
a year ago, and what
we're going to have in a year
two years ago, basically.
JAMIL MOLEDINA: Yeah.
That ottoman with
the geometric print
really presented well
that you were showing me.
MATT FESTA: Mhm.
Yeah.
So that was a nice one.
Again, that was a
hand model, actually.
So it was an artist that
kind of put together what
it looked like based on photos.
And not to discredit
the modelers--
they do a great job of making
the products look amazing.
But I feel like one of the big
things we're trying to push
is that super-accurate--
this thing is exactly how it
fits in your space.
And I think you lose some of
the detail and the precision
by doing the hand modeling
approach versus the 3D
scanning approach.
So it's one of those
things that we still don't
have a perfect solution for.
But I wish, if I
could go back in time,
we had what we have
now, or even better,
to use that to build our 3D
models from the beginning
from 3D scan data.
JAMIL MOLEDINA: Fair enough.
Tatsuo?
TATSUO NOMURA: So
if you were Q, I'd
probably ask you to just
give me a real Pikachu.
[LAUGHTER]
But if the only thing
you do is reset the time,
I guess what we would
have done is we probably
would have increased our
server capacity to begin with,
to the scale that we have today.
That's one thing we would do.
But in terms of other things, I
think we just launched the game
just a few months ago.
We still planned a lot of
things that we haven't even done
or haven't even gotten to yet.
So I don't think there's
things I would do differently,
except the server portion.
JAMIL MOLEDINA: Yeah.
You're kind of beginning your
adventure now, aren't you?
TATSUO NOMURA: Yeah.
JAMIL MOLEDINA:
So last question.
I want to kind of take
our official hats off.
Looking at it from the point of
view of being pioneers in AR,
where do you, Tatsuo and
Mike, think AR is going?
Or where should it go?
Or what are the forces that
need to change in order
to bring about an AR future that
you see as rewarding in five
years or so?
MATT FESTA: All right.
Yeah.
I'll start.
So this is something I've been
thinking about most of my life.
And Google's been doing a
lot of interesting animation
in the space of
mapping the world, when
you look at what's going on
with Google Earth, for example.
I think with AR technology,
we can bring that
to interactive, street-level
technology, essentially.
So when we're scanning a space,
we can present that space in,
let's say, virtual
reality, for example.
And we can have this
interaction using
AR with people that are in
the same space, but in VR.
So they could teleport
there and be there with us.
We can walk around
the street together
and look at different things,
or pull in different objects.
So I think this idea of
augmenting the world,
and creating a data
set-- a rich data set
that lives on top of the
real space that we're in--
will enable us to connect
better with people
both in the real sense, where
we're both together looking
at a thing or a landmark, but
also with a third person that
could be somewhere else in
VR, experiencing it with us.
So I'm excited for
that type of technology
that's coming from
the combination of 3D
scanning, augmented reality,
and virtual reality.
And big data-- to be able
to serve all of this data
so that we can actually
get to that point.
JAMIL MOLEDINA: Sounds awesome.
Tatsuo?
TATSUO NOMURA: I think
the technology's just
emerging right now.
The Tango is coming out.
Next year I guess there will
be new devices coming out.
But even going a lot
further, eventually--
and hopefully, I
think-- the device
will become so
small that you don't
know if someone is wearing it.
And you'll be able
to basically--
you won't be able to know
whether this Pikachu or that's
Q messing with you.
And I guess everyone
around my age--
or there are a lot of game
developers here today,
I think-- imagine, or have this
fantasy that you become a hero,
or do things that you won't
be able to do in real life.
But with the AR technology, you
can become something, right?
It could be a Pokemon trainer.
It could be-- I'm not a big
fan of first person shooter.
But if you wanted, you can do
that kind of game play as well.
So I think there are a
lot of interesting things
we can do in terms of
entertainment gaming.
But besides that,
like what-- I'd
like to wear my official
hat a little bit.
What Niantic is
trying to do is really
thinking about how we can
improve people's lives.
So not only doing these tricks.
But using the AR, how
can we actually augment
people's lives--
realities-- if you will.
So that's the area I think
that will evolve a lot as well.
Like, if you can have this AR
thing-- a more advanced version
of what we do today--
the local real world
is actually very interesting,
even your neighborhood.
What we try to do
for you to discover
these things, little things like
a landmark in your neighborhood
you never visited, or a
restaurant on the corner
that nobody knows.
With AR technology, you can
guide people to those places.
That would actually enhance,
augment, their reality.
I think that's where the
AR technology should be
or will be going to.
JAMIL MOLEDINA: That's
a beautiful vision.
I think that's part
of what everyone in AR
has this opportunity to do,
is to bring people together
in the real world.
I think that's probably the
best note for us to end on.
Thank you both for joining us.
TATSUO NOMURA: Thank you.
MATT FESTA: Yeah.
Thank you for having us.
[APPLAUSE]
