Everyone, welcome. Thank you for coming down here when there’s still games to play upstairs, we really appreciate it.
My name is Saisha Grayson, I’m the curator of time-based media here at the Smithsonian.
American Art Museum,
Today we’re going to ask what does it mean to bring video games and museum culture together?
What can we learn at the intersection of these worlds, and what can we ask together about and of our shared culture when they meet?
Here at the Smithsonian American Art Museum, we’ve been asking these questions since planning
began for our ground-breaking 2012 exhibition, “Art of the Video Game.”
Showcasing the evolution of video games over 40 years of aesthetic and technological innovation,
that blockbuster exhibition toured to ten museums over the next four years,
and at each stop around the country, it invited audiences to think differently about games as not
only entertainment,
but also carefully crafted expressions of contemporary culture that merge artistry, design, music, writing, and technology to achieve their impact.
Since 2014, we’ve continued this momentum with our annual SAAM Arcade events, of which this is part.
Welcoming tens of thousands of visitors like you to experience games in a new setting and see them in a new light.
At the literal and figurative center of this is the Independent Developers Showcase,
where exceptional, imaginative, unexpected game projects are highlighted, often with
their creators on-hand.
Starting last year, we introduced themes for each showcase, selecting games that are not only fascinating in their own right,
but taken together create layered insights on
a shared topic.
First in 2018 highlighting game spaces, and now in 2019, how games can break barriers.
This territorial approach echoes how we organize our galleries, taking seriously how artworks are
meaningful individually,
and in relation to each other,
and in relation to the broader cultural conversations we all partake in,
and I believe it is in this broadening context that we are making strides this year.
Expanding attention to how this creative medium, like all others, is expressive not only of individual makers,
but of the world in which and for which they are created.
Focusing on games and makers that break barriers is to acknowledge that our world, much like game play, is full of barriers that impact how we move through space,
through an experience,
through a story,
where it is possible to advance, and where
things get stuck.
Unlike in video games, these barriers are not consistently neated out, universally encountered, or equally surmountable.
Focusing on games and makers that reflect on this reality is to also acknowledge
that often the most visible aspects of games and the industry do not do the opposite,
uncritically reproducing and exaggerating biases and barriers of society at large.
Where video games and museums meet, then, we discover a significant role we can play in amplifying vital conversations around cultural significance and values,
representation and interpretation, equity and inclusion, that mirror how we engage in other forms of art,
acknowledging that something can represent both an aesthetic achievement and a problematic
set of conditions.
In one of the most powerful forces in starting and insisting on such conversations
is this year’s esteemed guest judge and keynote for today, Tanya DePass.
Tanya’s a prolific writer, speaker, organizer, and founder in 2014 of “I Need Diverse Games,”
an online platform and non-profit foundation that brings marginalized voices and projects to the fore,
and analyzes mainstream content from that intersectional perspective.
Crucially, the foundation coordinates scholarships and passes to the many development conferences
where expensive entry fees are just one of the most obvious barriers for many to the field.
From 2015 to 2017, she was the founder and editor-in-chief in the podcast, “Fresh Out of Tokens,”
discussing game culture from a feminist intersectional and diverse lens,
and in 2018, saw the publication of her edited volume, “Game Devs & Others: Tales from the Margins,”
and she joined the cast of “Rivals of Waterdeep,” an actual-play Dungeons and Dragons game where players defy D&D stereotypes.
Across all these platfo--sorry, and then we have
some updates.
Recent announced news.
Part of, in 2019, last week, maybe, yesterday?
Tanya has been named as part of the Annenberg Civic Media Fellowship Cohort of 2020.
She’s a Hugo Award nominee, as part of the Fireside Fiction Semiprozine nominations,
and my personal excitement, co-developer of the newly announced roleplaying tabletop game, based on N. K. Jemisin’s Broken Earth trilogy.
It’s going to be amazing.
So, across all these platforms, Tanya brings knowledge, passion, humor, righteous fury, love, and an unflagging commitment to the ongoing and uphill process
of pushing games to better reflect diverse experiences and identities, and support diverse creators and
player communities.
With Tanya as our first-ever theme-specific guest judge, and first-ever keynote,
we could not have asked for more expert insight when it came to selecting this year’s Indy Showcase entry,
and we are thrilled to have her with us today to share her thoughts on barriers and what we should do with them.
Before I relinquish the podium, I want to thank those who made this year’s arcade and Tanya’s presence
here possible:
our generous donors, Annette Nazareth, and Roger Ferguson, Jr.,
Director’s Circle members, and the Smithsonian American Women’s History Initiative,
as well as in kind support by Intel and media sponsorship by Washington City Paper.
Our amazing and enthusiastic vendors, Mega Cat Studios, Death by Audio Arcade, Arcades for Home, MagFast and WashingCon.
And Chris Totten, Tanya, and our other indy developer jurors, playtesters, etcetera, from SAAM staff
and beyond,
and at SAAM, our programs and IT team, Nathaniel Philips who did all the design, and our many volunteers all weekend,
who make everything look great and run well.
And thanks to all of you for coming and bringing your energy and enthusiasm to this year’s event, and hopefully the years to come.
So without further ado, Tanya DePass.
[Applause]
Hello. Can you hear me?
Good, because I might sit, I might not, I don’t know.
I’m also using a new laptop, so I don’t know what I’m doing yet.
Oh, you’re not going to get any weird academic, like, very stoic talk, just so you know.
We might be at the Smithsonian, but they let me come up here, so you’re getting what you’re getting.
But thank you for coming, thank you to the Smithsonian, thank you to Saisha, thank you to everyone else who made it possible.
Libby, Ryan, all of you, thank you because you’ve been great today welcoming me, showing me around,
and making sure I got everything I needed,
was well fed, watered, etcetera, and all of my friends that are here, it heartens me to have all of you
here, watching.
Hopefully, I do not disappoint anyone.
So, housekeeping. It’s, I’m not going to read this at you, I’ve been to too many lectures where people literally read, word for word, on the slide,
but please feel free to live-tweet, tag me. If I say it here, I’m not ashamed to have it out on the internet,
and if I was ashamed, well, too late now.
Please use the SAAM Arcade and tag me, that’s my handle up there. I know it’s a lot of letters, but, hey, it is what it is.
And, ignore the question/comment part, because we actually have a curated Q&A, this is my kind of standard thing when I do panels,
because how many people have been at a panel,
and someone stands there and tells their life story before they ever get to a question?
That is not happening when I’m at the podium.
I’m really not going to read that at you,
but that’s a lot of my standard bio and stuff that we don’t get a chance to talk about, so I’m not going to read my bio at you. I’m not that important.
So I do want to talk about what “I Need Diverse Games” does, and a little bit about how it came about.
For the people in the room who’ve not seen what I do online, I was mad about video games. Literally, about six in the morning, in October of 2014,
and I threw out some tweets that said, you know, “I’m tired of another bearded bro and people not like me,” and tagged it, “I need diverse games.”
Some friends with much bigger Twitter presences than mine shared it, it began to trend,
it became a conversation, it was very much a lightning in the bottle moment,
and luckily, people kept wanting to talk about it,
so I gave it its own Twitter handle, its own presence online, a community grew out of it,
and for whatever reason, people keep letting me come and talk about it, so hey, I’ll take it.
But this is what we do. It’s not all that we do, and by we, I mean myself and, like, two other people,
so if you hear “I Need Diverse Games” in email and ask about the team, I’m going to start laughing before I reply to you, because the team is like two people.
But what we do is we support things like Game Developer of Color Expo, which just happened last weekend in Brooklyn--I’m sorry, the Bronx,
GaymerX, which is focused on queer issues in gaming,
OrcaCon, which is about tabletop inclusivity. It is held in Seattle, and
anyone who’s into tabletop knows that tabletop has a worse issue with inclusivity than even video games,
and as someone who’s been into tabletop since first edition D&D, it’s really important to me that it gets better.
AlterConf, which is a convention focused on collegiate students getting into game dev,
and we do a whole lot of other things. We go to PAX every year, so if you’re going to PAX West, we’ll be there, come say hi.
And, you know, any other projects, kickstarters we can share, other things that we see by diverse creators,
and I know diverse is a buzzword, inclusive, whatever words you want to use today.
And also, we do diversity and inclusion consulting, so if you’re working on a game, on a project,
and you’re worried about being that person on the internet that everyone’s like, “Did you not know
any black people?”
We can help you with that, for a fee.
[Laughter]
Oh come on, some of you all have played games, and you go, “Did you ever actually meet a brown or a black person in your life?”
Because you look at their hair, you hear how they talk, how they’re dressed,
and you just go, “Have you even gone outside or googled what a black person looks like?”
We can help you with this.
I also want to talk about spaces like this,
because SAAM is important, and I just like saying SAAM because I’m a big nerd.
So, you know, thanks to Ryan for the stats, because I didn’t know.
So, SAAM Arcade brings in about 10 thousand people,
you know, for the days it runs, and that’s almost double of what the museum can sometimes see in a day.
You can show aspects of games you don’t normally get to see. I mean, how many of the Indie games
out there are
concepts that you never would have thought of as a game, or something could be a game,
because so many people have a rigid idea of what gaming is.
They think it’s only FPS shooters, they think it’s only fighting games, they think it’s just arcade cabinet, depending on the era of gaming you grew up in.
So, it gets to showcase things that, you know, controllers and concepts,
or it makes you think about things that you don’t get to see in games where you go run into GameStop or Target or something.
You know, there are games about identity, there’s games about emotion and feeling and vulnerability out there.
So, tomorrow, please come back and play more of these games, because that’s why SAAM’s important,
and I know that I’m kind of belaboring the killing and shooting point,
but most games have killing as your objective. They have it as, I’m going to murder everyone, usually people that are brown like me, which is an issue,
or people that could be like me, or women,
minorities that do exist in these games,
and I think we can do better, I think games could be a lot more than just rack up points by murdering folks and looting them and driving and running them over,
and if my friends in the front row start laughing at me about my video game driving, this will be why.
They’ve seen me stream too many games on Twitch.
But, also, no, it’s a little unfair to ask you all sitting
in the audience,
but how many people really expect to walk into an art museum and see games? Show of hands so I can actually see the audience?
Oh, come on. So we have one, poor, lone soul.
But for the average person, you don’t walk into an art museum, or any other kind of museum and expect to see video games.
I mean, I, frankly, was like, “The American Art Museum, and an arcade? How does this work?”
And then I had friends who explained this to me, so it worked out.
Because I just really had a moment of like, art, games, art games and we’re not belaboring the art games are art,
because if that’s your question, I’m going to tear it up and throw it at you, just so you know.
But there’s also other museum exhibits that have interrogated games. I know here there was previously a game, an exhibit about video game art,
but the V&A also had an exhibit about design that they disrupt, and it was four rooms,
it was amazing because it, you actually got to walk through and see all the ways in which games are built from the ground up,
even the fashion of games, E-sports, and, you know, I was in the exhibit.
It was a little weird, let me just tell you, to be alive and walk into a museum and see yourself is really strange,
but it made you interrogate these ideas, especially the room that had games and discussed things like Mafia 3. Has anyone in here played Mafia 3 beside me?
Oh, come on, really?
Alright, this is your homework from this lecture. Go play Mafia. You think I’m joking.
I’m going to tweet it out,
because, hey, I think it’s a good game. Your opinions and mileage may vary.
But, walking into a museum and seeing this game and knowing the impact it had on me personally, and other people of color, other black folks,
was amazing, and I would never think, even ten years ago, that I would have walked into any museum, let alone one across, in London,
or here, or anywhere else, or in the museums back
in Chicago,
and see a video game dissected and discussed in such a way,
because for something like Mafia 3, for those, since barely anyone but me has played the game,
you play Lincoln Clay, and he is a mixed-race, but you read him as black,
guy who has come back from the Vietnam War, and he’s got issues, because many of our soldiers did when they came back,
and it’s a tale of vengeance. He is almost killed by
the mafia,
but he’s also not a good guy. He was rolling around with the mafia, and they were like,
“You know that job you did for us? We’re going to double-cross you, thanks. By the way, we’re going to kill you and everyone you love.” Except they don’t manage it.
And to see that, and to see a black character have that tale of vengeance,
and have agency, and get revenge, was a very powerful thing, and I’m not going to lie,
the trailer of him throwing the mafioso in the swamp, and that guy getting eaten by an alligator, it was a fry gif, please take all my money.
Because when do I get to do this in video games? Usually, that’s happening to people that look like me,
so that’s the power of walking into this museum and seeing this game talked about.
And, granted, you may walk in a tech museum and see, like, the technical aspects, what it takes to make a video game, that may be something like
museum of science and industry, other places,
but overall, a lot of people don’t expect to walk in and see them.
And I think it’s important. I think it’s important to break that barrier and that expectation that games belong, like, on your phone. They belong in your living room.
They don’t belong in places where you go and expect to see a Van Gogh or see Body Works, or something like that, like why did these belong here?
Because the very least places you look for them is going to be the place that maybe sparks your imagination and makes you think about games in a different light,
because a game, you know, I’m going to start that argument, feel free to argue with me on twitter, you might get blocked,
of what is a game? Is it something, is it only a game if I can play it on my laptop? Is it only a game if I can play it on my phone or my PS4, what have you.
Are the old games some of us grew up with still games by today’s standards?
Or is me playing chess or checkers, is that a game?
And that should be something I have to walk into a museum and have that moment of discovery, but for a lot of people, that is where they may find them.
I keep finding people every day that didn’t play games as kids. They didn’t play games and get joy out of it as a lot of us did, or
they decided I’m a grownup, these must go on the shelf now because I’ve got a wife, I’ve got kids,
or my spouse doesn’t want me playing video games because that’s “childish.”
That’s not true. I mean, hopefully everyone in this room still plays video games because you’re here.
I mean, you never know. Sometimes people just wander in off the street. The museum is free.
[Laughter]
But again,
games do belong everywhere, especially in a museum, especially in a place of discovery and learning,
so I hope that the people, especially those that live here, support that.
And I, if I keep talking, and I keep talking, quickly, someone just wave at me, because I do talk a little quickly when I’m a little nervous.
But I want to talk a bit more about the
barriers of games,
and getting into games. So, since I can actually see the audience, how many people here actually make games,
and/or work in the industry actively, and this is
table top or…
Yay. People making games.
How many people get to go to GDC, though? Game Developers Conference in San Francisco.
Not as many hands rose. You know why?
Guess how much a ticket to GDC costs, and you don’t answer, you know.
Just shout from the audience. It’s fine.
Four, 25 hundred? What other guesses?
OK, a thousand. What else? One more.
No.
That, that’s above even Silicon Valley’s ceilings, I'm sorry. Dice may cost that much, but GDC doesn’t.
A full-ride ticket is about 2 thousand dollars, currently. I don’t think 2020 prices are out yet,
but if you want to see everything at GDC, and be there for a whole week,
you’re looking at two grand before you’ve bought an airplane ticket, booked a hotel, bought a meal, got to the airport, got to your hotel, did anything.
So, you’re looking at maybe five, six, seven thousand dollars for a week of professional development if you are in the industry or want to get into it.
There is a student day, but it is the very last day.
It's 75 bucks,
but I tell you, from personal experience, by Friday, everyone wants to go home.
We’re tired, we have talked to people all week, nobody likes anyone by Friday, and that’s the one day that poor students get.
Look, you go to GDC, come back and find me.
Cause by Friday, I’m usually on a flight by 3 pm, like, it was nice to see you. Goodbye.
But that’s just one thing, and that’s for the people who really want to get into the industry, come in and talk to their peers, maybe show games,
and being in the industry is not a guarantee your company will pay for you.
Just so you know. A lot of the people that we gave scholarships to this year
are in the industry. They’ve been in the industry for a few years. Their company just won’t send them
because they’re not high enough level, they’ve only been there a year, what have you,
even though this is supposed to be the professional development event of the year,
but there’s no investment in people to go.
So, and anyone in here for game design,
got a degree in it?
Don’t want to admit how much you owe in student loans for that design degree?
So that uncomfortable laughter told me all
I needed to know.
But, you know, getting a higher ed degree in any field is ridiculous, and here’s the thing,
getting that degree does not guarantee a job, because some people don’t care about academics.
They want to see what you can do, so making your own games to supplement that may be better than having that degree.
I know people argue, but very few of my friends who are in the industry now actually went and got that degree.
People that are younger, about half my age, are getting degrees, and they may get jobs, but it’s going to be hard
to convince someone to give you a shot if you’ve never made anything except in class, in some cases.
And, overall, the economic barrier is high because, even going to PAX, doing something like Indycade,
showing your game anywhere, you have to be able to get there. You have to be able to have,
you know, a week, maybe more, of hotel, etcetera.
It’s why a lot of people that are making games, especially indy, are sharing like three, four,
six people to a room,
and unfortunately, that’s not an exaggeration.
So, the biggest barrier right now is economic access, because, while we love games, we don’t think about the actual, literal cost of making them
and staying current in the industry and staying in a place where you can make them.
There’s also geography.
There’s a lot of game development going on outside the US, but all the things are US-centric.
A lot of people that are in countries in Africa,
that is a continent, not the country of Africa,
can’t go to things like GDC, because just the cost is astronomical. I mean, for me, if I don’t speak, I don’t go.
And I still come out of pocket a lot of money.
So think about the fact that just based on where you are, means you can’t access a lot of these things,
but, thankfully, there’s been a couple of online developer conferences this year. Totally free, just had to watch.
So, people are kind of pushing back against that, but even economically and geographically,
I can talk, I swear, they brought me here for a reason.
And it’s just cost-prohibitive, and in our current political climate, I’m going there,
I would not tell anyone to come to this country
right now.
There’s a good chance you may not get in, or you may not get out.
So, if you’re brown, trying to come to this country for professional development, you may not even get a visa,
because we had a couple of people who couldn’t take advantage of our program because they just were not granted a visa,
so in addition to money, being on the other side
of the world,
it can be literally dangerous to come here at this point, if you have the means to come to the US for
game development.
So that is, those are two big barriers that people just don’t think about because they have the means to do it.
The last one I want to talk about is physical limitations.
I have that get fit, take the stairs, kind of facetiously,
but how many people have seen things on Twitter where there’s someone in a wheelchair looking at an elevator,
and plastered on is, “Take the stairs.”
Like, work off some calories.
Really? You just didn’t think about anybody who could have mobility issues, that could
be in a wheelchair, just not be able to walk up three, four flights of stairs. I mean, I can’t.
Granted, I’m short, and my legs are short, but that’s not why I don’t want to walk up three flights of stairs.
But also, non-compliant work spaces. A lot of people I know that would love to
go work in various studios, they go, and then it’s like, this is great, if I got a job here, I can’t actually get in the door,
or I can’t get between cubicles because no one thought about ADA regulations,
or some open plan floor space where there’s not even a place where you can work and be left alone or have someone not knock into you all the time.
And apparently, the game industry, for the most part, doesn’t seem to believe in telework, that I’ve seen.
I can be wrong, but so many people are like, I’d love to work on this game, when they put out, hey come work with us, and then it’s like, you have to move to Sweden.
I like Sweden. I like stroopwafels. But I don’t want to live there.
So,
but if that’s my only option, and it’s a dream job, do I uproot my whole life? Or do I say, hey,
if I’m coding, why can’t I just telework?
Why do I have to physically be here?
Because most of what we do is digital. There is no reason I should have to uproot my life
to come work on a game, and then be out of a job in two years when the contract’s over.
So those are just some of the barriers.
So, let’s add these negative modifiers.
So, for the brown people in the audience, you all know the phrase, that you have to be twice as good
to get half as far.
You can add on, if you are nonbinary,
or female-presenting,
so imagine just how much worse it is, you’ve now got to be three times or four times as better to even get your foot in the door.
Orientation, by that I mean, if you are queer, gay, lesbian, bi, trans, whichever descriptor you prefer,
because some people want to fight about the word “queer,” that’s not what we’re here for.
But if you choose to be out, so we're what, up to six times damage modifier, by D&D parlance?
[Laughter]
And then disability, and mental health. So add all these--I’m sorry, I’m pointing the wrong way--So add all these,
it’d be a miracle if anybody ever made a game, because a lot of people have all of these modifiers.
The game is rigged, it’s stacked.  If you’re not a cis, straight, white dude, it’s stacked against you.
Let’s just put it on the table.
Be mad, I don’t care.
So, add in all of those, where does that leave a lot of people? Left out, left behind the wall,
as it were. We’re not building a wall, that’s not cool.
It does not belong in game dev, in space, or in the world.
But I want to talk about, also, the importance of shattering those barriers,
because that’s, you know, the point of this event and thinking about ways we can break them.
When you let people in, when you give them a seat
at the table,
you get better stories, and that’s just, it’s factual. It’s not me just being happy-go-lucky,
you know, Pollyanna. You really get better stories. When you actually think about the people you want to write about, portray,
and put in your stories, and you talk to them,
amazingly enough,
your story will be better because you will
have their input,
or, here’s a thought, hire them on your dev teams.
Don’t just go, “Hey, consult for us, make sure we don’t mess up, thanks! Here’s, like, a paltry sum of money, see you later.”
Actually bring them into the fold.
Or, this is why a lot of people are making
their own stories.
They just go, well, the industry doesn’t care about me, and not, like, “The Industry” as a thing should care about an individual,
but there should be places for us. There should be places for us to
come in, be part of a team, and not just be
the diversity hire,
not just be, “oh, we’re making a black character, let’s ask Brian on the sixth floor if this is okay.”
Because, look, I have stories.
So, this is what you need to do. You need to bring people in and offer them a seat at the table,
and not just literally pull the chair out from under them, because it happens.
Bring people in, you have your check boxes, you think everything’s great, your game goes out in the world,
and then other people with other lived experience, go, “Wait a minute, this isn’t okay.”
And so I have an asterisk by the playing field part of it, because in theory that’s great.
There is a wonderful place to live if you can get in.
But, systemic things make that impossible.
Right now, even, let’s say, all of us were all rich, we all, you know, have whatever background we need to make games, to do what you need to do,
that doesn’t mean it’s equal.
There’s systemic oppression in history, and especially in this country that we need to overcome
before it can truly be equal.
And I’m not trying to be pessimistic and be a downer, but it’s just the truth of things.
We can give people all the equal starting blocks, we can give people scholarships to school,
we can do all these things, these wonderful programs, but they still have to go out in the world
with other people have already been entrenched in the ideology that they’re the default.
That they’re the ones that need to be catered to,
and that’s not true.
If anyone follows IGDA, the International Game Developers Association, they put out a survey every year, it’s self-reported,
and people talk about, you know, what is it they do, and they put out a racial…
It’s people in the industry talking about the racial breakdown, and not surprising to anyone,
about 1% of those people surveyed are black.
Maybe a few more percent are Pacific Islander.
Overwhelmingly, guess, guess who the respondents are, just go on, humor me.
No, not just white people.
Yes. I think the last survey was 74% white men who were in the industry making games.
So, is it any surprise when we keep getting the same games over and over?
[Laughter]
And I don’t say that to be entirely facetious.
That’s a lie, I do.
[Laughter]
But, if you don’t have people like me, other folks in the audience who are making these games,
and you’re not hiring them and bringing them into the fold and keeping them there, making sure they are productive, welcomed, and happy,
you’re, we’re going to keep getting the same games over, and over, and over, or
things like dude grows up, has a kid, realizes women are people too,
kind of games we keep getting.
Or child grows up motherless because for whatever reason, because that seems to be a thing. People keep killing off women in these games. Like,
could you let people actually have a happy family life
for once?
But, again, the same people are making
the same games.
So that’s why I say in theory, and I kind of wanted to hammer down on that a little bit.
Because everyone’s like, well, you know, if we break down barriers and give people, like, one scholarship to GDC, everything will be great.
That’s the biggest lie anyone has ever told anyone in game development,
because the other part of this is people get programs, they get their one shot at things,
and then there’s no followup.
There’s no, “Hey," six months later, "how’s your game doing, how are you doing? Did you get any interviews? Are you doing any internships?" It’s like,
here’s your one shot, good luck,
see you later, and that’s it.
And I know I’m just, like, so cheerful,
but I plan to be a little more cheerful, but I also want to talk about other people besides me.
Yes, Smithsonian invited me, but there’s so many people doing this work, and I just want to acknowledge that.
My friend, Jerry Thompson, lovely, lovely human who is doing accessibility work,
visiting studios, and doing a lot of other work,
also works with
Game Accessibility Conference. I had to think about it, I was about to use the acronym, and that’s never useful. But yeah, I want to give Jerry some love,
and also some other organizations. So, who here knows about AbleGamers?
Yay, AbleGamers. So yeah, they work with XBox, they work with a lot of other people, to help
folks get devices in order to play games, and not be left out in the cold.
XBox Gaming for Everyone, it’s a little more internal, but they are doing things, like, at PAX, at GDC.
I wanted to give them some acknowledgement. Game Accessibility Conference, which is actually going to do its first European conference this year.
AnyKey is about e-sports, specifically, so, good sportsman
-ish conduct in e-sports and inclusion, and I, why wouldn’t I put my own organization?
So, that would be weird if I didn’t.
Alright. So, I know I talked a little quickly, but that means there’s plenty of time for comments. Oh, no, no comments, no.
No, Ben, no.
Questions, which are being curated.
But I wanted to, this is not the end. This is not, “Go forth and do better, I give you my blessing.” Because I ain’t ever going to do that.
No, so, quick story time, if I have time to do it, because I have not been watching the clock.
A lot of times when I do panels, when I do things, especially in table-top spaces,
I will inevitably get the, “I want to play a black person, is that okay?”
And I’m like, I can’t stop you.
I’m not at your table. But people want that permission.
They want to know that they aren’t a bad person for trying on something different,
and to them, I always go, you can do this, but you have to realize that your GM or DM
should probably have very serious conversation with you and interrogate why you want to do this.
Or I get people who are angry that I got to be a black dude in Mafia 3, why is that? And when I streamed the game, for example,
I got some of the worst harassment, well, second-worst harassment I’ve ever had on Twitch.
People coming and going, why do you have to be
a black dude?
I can’t see him, turn up the brightness.
And various other slurs that I will not use in this
august establishment.
But yeah. That was fun, by fun, I mean, I am
being sarcastic.
So, in conclusion, but I want you all to think about this as you leave and as we talk about everything,
we need to do better, and this isn’t, you know, pointing fingers at anyone, it isn’t like, you,
white person, you’re evil.
Trust me, follow me on Twitter, you’ll see all kinds of weird stuff.
But this is a call to all of us, because I still fail, I fail on a lot of issues, I’m not perfect. No one is.
But we have to think about, and yes, I know that my friends are going to laugh at me, because I took this shot, who gets to be in the room where it happens.
Who decides what barriers goes up?
And who gets to tear them down?
Because how many people are working in an org, and they see someone trying to do good, their heart is in the right place,
and they mean well, but they walk into a diversity committee meeting,
and it’s like, every white person in the org that may or may not have some other aspect of marginalization, and they mean well, they really, really do,
but you’re like, did you not have a single brown person you could have brought onto this committee
at all?
Or you go to a diversity panel, even better.
I don’t know if anyone’s seen that photo of, like, the four white Samoyeds, or whatever the dog breed is, and it’s like, your average diversity panel?
I couldn’t find the picture, or it would be in the slides, trust me.
And yes, I’m going to end on a Hamilton quote, because I’m a nerd.
"Think about at the end, who lives, who dies, who gets to tell your story."
So, with that, Q&A. I don’t know how much time we have left, because I really have not been watching a clock.
Yay, because I talk fast when I’m nervous, and I’m actually incredibly nervous.
Oh, sure. We’ll get some chairs and sit down on the stage and do this fire-side style, but
in the meantime, I hope you all have been writing questions, and can pass them over.
So, while I’m just standing here and you all are
staring at me,
do we want to take Q&A from the audience while we are,
while we are kind of waiting on things?
Saisha?
Alright, so someone shout out a question while we’re waiting on these to come through. Make it a good one, and an actual question.
Oh, come on, y’all. Really?
Alright.
From the audience: So, one of the questions I have for you is that you've got some criticisms. What does it mean when you
[inaudible]
This is what I’ve been waiting for
[inaudible].
So the question was, for those watching the stream and those in here can hear it,
is that I’ve gotten criticisms, but where is a game that I feel that they’ve gotten it.
And honestly, for me, it’s Mafia 3,
and yes, a lot of the development team was white, but surprise, they had a black guy on the staff that did a lot of the writing, and you can tell.
But, there’s actually a disclaimer when you start the game of,
“We did not shy away from the racism and violence of that era,” because it’s set in 1968 Louisiana,
because they felt the game would not be as impactful or as legitimate if they did not include that,
because how are you going to set a game in ‘68 Louisiana, and not deal with racism?
But a lot of people just didn't know what to do with that.
Rock Paper Shotgun had an article in progress where
the gentleman
decided he was weary of hearing the n-word
how many times in this game. And I was just like, “Um, try being a forty-year old black chick.
Let me holler at you.”
Because he was just so weary hearing this word over and over, so
you know, I know people have criticism of Mafia 3, because some people feel it reinforces stereotypes of violent black men,
but I thought it was cool, and I really enjoyed playing it.
Alright, do we have cards?
We’re going to sit down.
I'm going to shame y'all. Where are the rest of the questions?
[Laughter]
Oh, people didn’t get cards.
Can you all hear me. Oh hi.
So, cards are coming to the folks who didn’t get them, and that way we can keep talking.
Alright, so.
Look, it’s dark up here.
So, how do you encourage diversity from people of color, generally speaking, in the game industry?
Okay, there’s like three questions on here.
So, diversity from people of color? Whoever,
I mean, you don’t have to say who you are, but I’m not quite understanding the wording.
Do you mean from people of color for people of color?
Did the person leave?
Alright. I’m going to run with it.
So, diversity from people of color, you know, when you don’t see us in games, speak up, and by this, I mean,
contact the developer in some way, respond to them on Twitter and go, hey I played your game, I know it’s set in medieval England,
but you know that we existed, right? We didn’t sprung up just from slavery?
That you can look up Moors and all these other people. If you mean for people of color,
the same thing applies. Go out and find other people,
you know, see who’s playing games, who’s
talking about it,
who’s not talking about a game and what they’re saying.
But one piece of advice I’ll say is don’t go yell at developers on Twitter. It’s just going to get you blocked, and they’re not going to listen,
because they get that so much and they’re not going to pay attention.
And the second question on here,
“What advice could you offer to people who want to join the community but don’t know where to begin?”
And by community, I’m guessing you mean the game development, like, getting in the industry.
If I’m wrong, please correct me.
I would say go to small events locally, if you can.
Follow gaming accounts on twitter, look up BlackGameDevs.com.
There's actually people in the industry that have opted into a list,
and they can, they list, like, what they do, it’s broken down by occupation, by location.
Find other people in the industry that are doing things you want to do,
and reach out to them. Twitter can be an okay media, but if they’ve got a content form that may be better,
because a lot of people of color in the industry have been harassed and abused and stalked,
so they may not be receptive to a random
Twitter reach-out,
and just so you know, the “Let’s have coffee, let me pick your brain” approach is old, don't do it.
Because so many people want to do that, they basically want to turn to a free consulting moment,
and what you thought was going to be a half-hour informational chat turns into,
“Oh, this is something I should have paid, like, 300 dollars for.”
So reach out to people, ask about mentorship, look into the International Game Developers Association. They do have a student rate,
whether you’re a student in game design or not.
Look that up, and try to join.
They’ve got a lot of great resources.
Alright, so.
Next question, although I feel really lonely with just one chair and me.
Yay.
Yay.
I’m not so lonely anymore.
Okay.
Grayson: This usually goes really smoothly. Like, the card thing is usually, but okay. Yeah.
So, if you could "diversify," in quotes,
any major game franchise, which would you choose and how would you do it? Oh, I love this question.
DePass: So many. So many. My friends are laughing at me because they probably know what I’m going to say.
“Dragon Age.”
Because I love that game, but good lord, more brown people come from places beside, like, Tevinter and even Rivain.
And also D&D. I’m not going to lie,
I love D&D, but they can do a lot better.
The iconic black, the iconic human in D&D fifth edition handbook is a black woman,
but someone pointed out to me at GenCon, which I hadn’t caught, that the warrior, I think,
is also a black dude.
But he really looks like he came out of a terrible, 30's Tarzan flick.
He’s got, no, he’s got a shield and a sword that looks a little too tribal for my comfort that I totally missed reading this handbook.
But I would do “Dragon Age,” mostly because, while they did have black characters in the most current game,
Vivienne is an ice queen, and you can’t marry her, and she’s totally,
what is the word, I can’t think of the right word, but she got all her power from, like, an old white dude
she was banging,
and that was how she got where she is?
You can’t date her, not that I would date someone like Vivian, but that’s a whole other conversation.
But you know, we finally get some like, attractive, dark-skinned, black people, we can’t date them.
Ser Barris isn’t dateable either.
You just send him on his way, if he lives, because he could die. Sorry, spoiler.
[Laughter]
The game has been out for four years, if you haven’t played it by now, that’s on you.
But yeah, definitely "Dragon Age." Also “Mass Effect,” if we do ever get another “Mass Effect” game.
Do a little better there as well.
Grayson: So, with…
Yeah, this one’s a novel, everybody ready? So with all the backlashes as of late…
[Laughter]
[Applause]
So with all the backlashes as of late, with the Disney controversy, particularly the lack of diversity,
instead of getting angry or sad, what can
people of color,
who are not gamers, do to promote or create more opportunity for people of color who are interested, or who want to make a difference?
DePass: So, the whole, “Disney” backlash is, so spoiler, the original “Little Mermaid” still exists.
Your childhood is not ruined by Ariel being black in the new movie.
Deal with it.
But for people that, people of color that maybe
aren’t in games,
you still need someone who can write, who can draw, who can program.
If you are doing a project that maybe isn’t game-related, but maybe you’re writing a novel,
and you, let’s say, just because I’m a black chick who grew up in Chicago,
doesn’t mean that I know the experiences of other people of color if I want
an Asian perspective, South-, East-, North-, or West-Asian, or, like, a Hispanic or Latino perspective.
That’s not my wheelhouse, so I could reach out to someone else to get their opinion and get their world-view, get their diversity consult,
so think about ways in which the components of a game can be used, and you know, brought out to other people.
And reach out to your community, because I’m sure, even if you’re not a gamer, you can find people who are.
Grayson: This are such extraordinary effort in getting this to us. As a developer who often finds myself in all-white game spaces,
what are some tips for how to consciously invite people of color into that space without feeling tokenized?
DePass: First, thank you for your amazing effort in getting your question up here.
[Laughter]
I’d say just reach out to people and not have your first contact be,
“Oh, I’m making a black character, could you look them over, make sure I’m not a racist?”
And I’m not, I’m really not trying to be facetious for once in my life.
Reach out to people, like, ask who’s doing things, and when you put up calls for maybe artists, writers, whatever you need on your team,
when you put that out, put “People of color, queer folks, etcetera, strongly encouraged to apply,” because what I’ve found is if you’re not explicit,
if you don’t say that when you put out job posting for looking for people to work with, be it freelance or what have you,
we self-select out of that, because a lot of times we assume that we’re not welcome, that because some of these spaces have been unwelcoming,
so be very specific in what you’re doing
and your wording,
and go, “Hey, we want more people in here,” but don’t go, “Look, we have a checkboxes,” just go
very strongly encourage them to apply, reach out, like, feel free to find me, send me an email. We could share your job postings, whatever you’re looking for,
and again, use Twitter for once for the power of good, and go,
here’s what we’re looking for, share it amongst your people,
amongst developers. Again, use BlackGameDevs.com, use resources that are out there. There’s
special interest groups, things in IGBA, so there is a Black Game Dev sink in IGBA, you can reach out to them, go “Hey, there’s a job posting.”
Or find other people that can share it out as well,
because a lot of times we get these offers,
some people are still a little shy about it, and are, oh, I don’t know,
because I’ve been burned before, or are you trying to do the catch everyone like Pokemon thing,
and say we’re diverse, but we have our one brown person, we have our one woman, we have our one queer, out person.
And look, we’re diverse, we did great. So, be intentional, but don’t be over the top, if that makes sense.
Grayson: And this question is, "Where do you feel the industry is lagging the most in representation, and do you think that’s changing at all?"
DePass: They’re lagging everywhere.
I mean, it’s no lie.
Look, I mean, look onstage at E3, a lot of times when you see events, how many people of color do you
see on stage
that are not talking about being people of color, being brown, and how much the industry sucks?
It’s getting there slowly. Earlier, I was talking to someone from NPR,
and I talked about even five, six years ago, I never would have thought to see the Harlem Hellfires
on a game cover.
I never thought to see Nillan from “Remember Me,”
a clearly brown, female character,
as the protagonist of a game.
So it’s getting there, very slowly, but there’s always a pushback. There’s always the assumption of
an agenda, and
the dreaded “SJW” whatever. Look, if we really taking over games as much as people think we are,
we wouldn’t have to keep having these arguments.
I could be doing very well making games
and not having to deal with people going, “Oh my god, there’s not free--”
I almost swore, is that okay?
[Laughter]
Grayson: I actually don’t know the rules.
DePass: Okay, I don’t want to get anyone in trouble, because my friends and I have a foul mouth.
But, you know, these breasts are not as large as they could be, they don’t bounce and defy gravity,
how dare you?
The things like that. So, it’s getting better, but we need, what we need to do is
be more conscious at the hiring level, be more conscious at the promotional level, and when someone has a problem, get them out,
not send them away for two weeks, let them come back, and still have a flourishing career like so many men in the industry get to do.
So, yeah. We need to get the bad-faith actors out, and get more people in that actually care about these issues,
and not make it seem like, “Oh, look, I did my due diligence,” and then they
get frustrated and leave, not just the job, but maybe the industry.
Emcee, off-screen: I’m sorry to interrupt. I think we have time for one more question.
Grayson: So, this is for us. How do you find games that are both diverse and engaging for women over 40?
DePass: Oh, wow. That’s a, that’s a good one.
If you know other women over 40, ask them, and you can ask me, find me.
And I’m not, I’m not being funny, but it’s also subjective, because what I find hilarious, other people might find incredibly offensive.
[Laughter]
I mean, I still, like, play “The Sims” and put Sims in houses, and take the ladders out of the pool, so.
But I also will get online and play “Call of Duty,” so.
Engaging, and I don’t want to feed into a stereotype, but for me, I will sit and play a narrative RPG all day.
I’ll play “Dragon Age,” “Mass Effect,” “The Witcher.”
But find out what someone likes,
and kind of go from there. But find me, tweet at me, I’ll tell you all the games I like, and hopefully they are your cup of tea as well.
Grayson: I sort of like, because there’s only one more question, so we’re just going to finish the stack, okay?
So, do you feel it’s the responsibility of those not in diverse groups to aid in their projects?
And do you mean the project with larger, diversifying games, or specific projects?
DePass: Absolutely. So.
This is where I get to rant about allies for a second.
Because, one, I hate that word, I never want to hear it in my life.
Because a lot of times people say, “I’m an ally!” They go, I do the bare minimum, I wear a safety pin,
I yell at other white people on twitter, and I’m an ally, but they don’t actually do the work.
They give five bucks here and there, and they think, “I’ve done my job, I’m an ally.”
What you can do is speak up, use your voice to elevate, not to speak over, don’t white knight, and by white knighting, I mean speaking for someone,
so if I’m on Twitter, perfect example. There’s some people who are really not happy
about the company that is doing the RPG
with Nora's books,
and they’ve decided that that is the
hill they want to die on,
and some people, love them dearly, but they’ve decided they have to go in and charge and defend me.
I’m a loud mouth. I can talk for myself all day long.
But that’s what I mean by white knighting.
So, use your words to elevate, and if you are in a position of power, especially if you hire people, or have money,
support those people that are doing work, that are not going to get that chance. I mean, look at Kickstarters, look at other things.
You can look at the stats. Things done by people of color usually don’t get funded, they don’t get the same attention, they don’t get other things, so
use your privilege and your position to do that, and if you must,
try to be an ally, don’t use that word, say I’m an accomplice, I’m helping.
Anything but that, because at least for me, again, this is, your mileage may vary.
Do the work, and don’t expect the cookie,
and just be silent. Do whatever you can, retweet folks. Don’t add your story.
Don’t tell, if someone’s talking about, someone touched my hair, don’t “People touch my hair, too. It’s so curly.”
People have done this to me.
And I just laugh at them and I walk away before I do other things.
But, mind your manners, stay in your lane,
as folks like to say,
and be aware of your privileges, and use that for good, and if someone says, “Hey, this isn’t your place,
this isn’t your argument.” Maybe you should let that go,
step back and be quiet, and just listen, more than anything else.
Grayson: Thank you. I think that’s a great note to end on.
Thank you everybody so much for coming and staying.
[Applause]
Thank you Tanya.
[Applause]
[Applause]
