Welcome to this edition of
prophecy in the news thank
you for joining us today
I'm your host Kevin
Clarkson joined today
by Dr Thomas Ice Is the
co-founder with Tim La
Haye and current executive
director of the pre
tribulation research
center in the Dallas Fort
Worth metro area good to
have you well it's good
to be back with you Kevin
Yeah we we recently did a
spot with you about the
chronology of the Bible
but you have just had a
book published even as we
filled with it's coming
hot off the press right
and it's a fascinating
topic today the case for
Zionism and that you know
this is that area
that I love very much
and 
so that's concerning
And so this is a polemical
book meaning you know
we're defending presenting
and defending their case
interacting with a lot of
the views within
Evangelical Christianity
that being thrown out.
As well as just from the
public as a whole you know
that Israel you know
shouldn't be shouldn't
exist or should have
a certain right hand
and 
I believe that tell
our our listeners why you
say that well
because for example.
An X.
Three.
Jesus of Peter tells the
Jewish believers are the
Jewish people there when
he's preaching at the
peple about you know
how they killed the.
I and everything they need
to repent and he says and
Christ is being
held in the heavens
and therefore the time of
refreshing which is a term
related to the millennium.
Will not come until you
repent and the redemption
will not come
until they believe
and that's addressed to
the people of Israel it's
addressed to the nation of
Israel he's right there on
the Temple
and 
even in Acts one
they're asking where are
you at this time going to
where the Kingdom divs
rule and.
It says in a few verses
earlier that he had spent
forty days right after
his resurrection teaching
about the kingdom
and that was their
question that and then I
have that question let me
check did Jesus say you
didn't get it we've
embraced replacement
theology right he didn't
say then what did he say
he said it's it's not for
you know to know the times
of the seasons
which I believe.
Supports the notion that
Israel has a future a bit
I know
about one day.
The patriarchs are
going to gather
regeneration Yes when that
happened the time of the
regeneration when exactly
and you have the mysteries
of the kingdom
and Matthew thirteen where
basically in Matthew
twelve they reject
him officially
L's above or seitan And
so they're officially
rejected and he
quotes from Isaiah.
and so he's going to speak
in parables from here on
out which he does and
He then explains new
revelation and the light
of Israel's or Jackson and
that basically if I could
sum it up quickly is that
Israel is one day going
the kingdom still going to
come but it's
being postponed.
And.
But these are called the
mystery of the kingdom the
fair mysteries of the
kingdom but there's going
to be a time of judgement
before that so that covers
the church edge
and the seven year
tribulation leading up to
the second coming and
that's when the kingdoms
going to come so with that
in mind that's why in the
Upper Room discourse
heaven he.
Explains the mysteries he
starts introducing the
disciples the night before
he was killed to church a
true light of overreach
here wrapped up in the
Holy Spirit coming you're
going to be persecuted
they will say that ARE YOU
THE into Welling Ministry
of the Holy Spirit I knew
you and me etc And that's
when he introduces him
three times in that
section he says I have
more to tell you but you
can't bear it but
and you see the Apostles
expanding upon what Christ
introduced there
and later we find that
that is called the church
as a
and talking about Kingdom
this in that like we're in
the kingdom to die we're
not it's called the church
adds and what's the
purpose of the church it's
a time of calling out
people through the
preaching of the Gospel
who will in the future and
the Kingdom including the
church who will be his
bride will reign and rule
with him but Israel will
be the head over the
nations and that's why you
can't have the.
Them and the church
because today Jew and
Gentile are co-equal in
Christ and so he could
not.
Have Israel be the head
over the nations with the
church still functioning
as the agent through which
he is working and that's
why you have to have a
preacher rapture to end
that and then completion
of the seventy If week of
Daniel where at the end of
that seventy weeks you
have the six things that
are mentioned the Daniel
mind twenty four you know
to bring an everlasting
Rice to in the apostasy in
other words the possibly
is Jewish unbelief right
and so all Israel will be
saved as they are as the
non elect Jewish people
are purged out during that
seven year period and I
call on him that's what
Paul is talking about
Romans ten how shall they
call he quotes Joel
with says whoever
and how shall they.
Believe in Him whom they
haven't heard any uses
reverse logic back to the
outcome of call Yeah they
got to get saved
and that's quoted in
Matthew twenty four twenty
nine right and other
places in the New
Testament in conjunction
with the second coming and
so that's why the modern
state of Israel so
important so important
because Bible prophecy
presupposes that Israel
is back in her land in
control of Jerusalem with
a rebuilt temple by the
midpoint of the
tribulation
and that's why I call
Israel the super sign of
the end times because.
Even if we're wrong on
some of these other things
like the role that the
European Union plays or
doesn't play Russia in
all of this which I don't
think we're wrong on but
I'm just saying you can't.
Is we'll be obvious yet it
is the sign and of course
they become a nation of
forty eight and we're
seeing the struggles that
have been going through
for the last seventy years
but God has worked through
and I have a host chapter
in here a very long
chapter on the history of
Christian Zionism of the
role that Christian played
in the foundation of the
Nation of Israel
and it began in the late
fifteen hundreds specially
gained momentum in the six
hundred most Christians
are not aware.
That you had
pre-millennial Islam being
awoken in Protestantism
at that time and many of
these people were put in
jail for teaching these
views one guy Francis cat
was burned at the stake in
England youth in Norwich
England yes which was the
second largest city at
that time and in fifteen
eighty three or
something like that
and simply for riding in
a book a couple of pages
about the restoration of
Israel can you believe
that that shows what the
Middle Ages was why the
anti semitism you know
that was there and then
you had a guy.
Name Well I can't remember
his name right now
but he was the greatest
legal scholar in Britain
at the time Sir Henry
Finch was a nice guy and
in sixteen twenty seven
he wrote a whole book.
Outlining the restoration
of the Jews and he implied
that it would be pretty
quick and this guy was the
guy who had previously.
Studied Deuteronomy and
the Mosaic Law and shown
that British.
Common law was built on
that and a guy who later
came along in the eight
hundred one blacks put
that all and revised
benches book hits did the
man work and that's why
he was knighted Sir Henry
fence
and 
he died seventeen
months later you know
being imprisoned in those
days you know somebody
else had to bring your
food knowledge right it
wasn't a pleasant thing
like sit around watching
T.
V.
Today not at all you know
like a curse today and
this guy was as high
ranking as you could be
and not be you know the
king just about and he
came out with that because
he was studying the Bible
and he saw all this
prophecy about Israel and
everything and so you have
stories of people all
throughout the sixteen
seventeen eighteen
nineteen hundreds that
were who were Christians
who were advocating the
cause for Israel and a lot
of people don't realize
what they did in fact I
like to use this
illustration.
That Israel for Israel to
become a nation would have
had to had like fifty out
of fifty things go right
OK
or another thing over here
hadn't gone the way it did
then Israel would have
been born and it's amazing
and some on a Saturday
apparently about it goes
to downtown and goes in
the store and it was just
full of people all around.
And some guy came up to me
want to he was a communist
and wanted me to sign a
petition and I opened my
mouth
You're an American where
you promise a Texas you
know Bush you know he went
off on this saying and in
three minutes he was
Blimey Israel boy for all
the problems you see what
that's a typical view
today it is and this is a
guy and he said it was a
conspiracy that Israel
became a nation again
because all the Jewish
bankers and everything and
that's what I'm saying
yeah there's no theory
like that that can explain
the modern state of Israel
the only thing is God
God brought them back I
completely completely
agree and my heart leaps
and you know we've we've
talked Dr Ice about most
of us will interpret
Scripture through that the
lives of our time
but we we don't always do
that we struggle and so
when we talk about
the three hundreds
and The people had been
dispersed even further so
you look there there's no
not much to encourage you
and then you fast forward
to the Reformation and
there rediscovering the
truth of salvation but
when they look at the
Middle East they don't see
a nation of
Israel and and.
We're fortunate I think to
live in this time where we
saw God bring us the
passive front of our eyes
yeah in fact there's a
prophecy in Deuteronomy
that when when the Jews
are out of the land.
Then the land will always
be desolate that's in
Deuteronomy I wrote a ho
on it it was years ago
and.
Exactly and so you have
that beginning you know
after.
Actually won thirty five
because you had the cop to
revolve one thirty two to
one thirty five where the
Jews actually
and they had built a
makeshift temple we have
Cohen's with
that on I think
and that Hadrian who was
the Emperor of the Roman
Empire said you know I'm
fed up of the Jewish
people I have to have
seven times more Roman
soldiers just to keep the
peace in Israel I'm going
to go.
Destroy them once and for
all and he did and he came
and over a half a million
Jews were killed and one
person eighty one forty
five and many I'm shipped
off.
Those that weren't killed
to you know Alexandria and
so it's like market
and he totally.
Destroyed the city
he read named Judah.
And Israel Palestinian and
so that was a regional
name.
That is an acknowledgment
of the Philistines is that
yes of the.
Fullest beans which is
about twice the size of
the Gaza Strip right
on the coast there
and applied it to the
whole thing because he
said he wanted to be duty
eyes Israel well that now
you know with his her day
and he named Jerusalem Das
copy tall and the
Byzantine Christians you
know when Constantine
became a Christian took
over Jerusalem and they
made it a Christian city
in fact Jews were not even
allowed to go into the
city of Jerusalem
and they could only.
Go there on the night of
the because amazingly both
Israel's temples
five eighty six B.
C.
and Eighty seventy were
destroyed on the same day
on the Jewish calendar
than I provide a day of
grey.
Some more difficult some
more what I call Calvinist
luck yeah right
hour but at the when the
sun goes down then eat
custom today but the
fact of the matter is.
When the Jews have been
Alleyn about oh I have a
whole book by a scholar.
Who account for the fact
that Jews have lived in
Israel you know all this
time it takes some by one
hundred year segments and
shows where and how Jews
lived there so there's
always been a remnant
and so God you know is
using the church to preach
the Gospel during that
time while Israel is in
dispersion and now it
appears that he's getting
ready as we see the signs
of the times for the
tribulation period and
he's brought Israel back
in the land and that's why
you know the those thirty
five acres of the Temple
Mount area are the most
contested.
Place on the planet and
that's why Israel is so
important because God said
that's where he intends to
do well you know
he's 
going to do
and he will be their God
and we the church have a
role as well we're going
to be a resurrected body
at the Rapture we will
experience the beam of
judgment in heaven then
we'll come back with him
with our white robes.
Because we're going to be
forever with him at his
side and.
and rule with him as
resurrected beings in the
millennium which will
include all resurrected
believers from Adam on
through the Tribulation as
well as us as the church
who will be at his right
hand and then you will
have mortals who serve who
gets after the rapture and
survive the tribulation
going in the more bodies
and they will have
children and all of this
kind of stuff and they'll
have to accept prices or
savior during that time
as well and there will be
some disobedience still
it's in their will at the
end
The belief that Israel
should occupy and live in
the land bicycle and that
and reason for the term
yet of Zionism in fact you
know we talk about it in
the book it's used
like one hundred forty
something times in the
Bible both old and new and
it always has a positive
connotation to it.
You know riginal e-zine
was where David lived
right a King David and
it was right across the
valley from the
Temple Mount area
is an.
Interesting that was their
term all the way up until
the early one thousand
nine hundred when they
started using the term
Zionism so a Christian
Zionist is a Christian who
believes the Jews should
be in the land of Israel
as I see that's pretty
fascinating we are
visiting with Dr Thomas
ice
Book just published
the case for Zionism
and the underline of that
is why Christians should
support Israel you could
have a copy of this book
that has just been
published by calling the
eight hundred number on
your screen are going to
profit in the News dot com
Visit our bookstore there
were offered this for
forty ninety five with
shipping and handling on
top but we'd love for you
to take advantage of this
you know Dr ice before we
have to close this session
we're going to do another
program I really do want
to walk next time with you
through some of the
centuries and Christian
theology about Israel
because that's fascinating
to me and we call that
historical theology and
that's kind of your
special THE But let's
let's let's take We've got
just a little time the
biblical case the biblical
basis for Israel being in
the land what do you what
do you hold forth as the
strongest arguments
Well it starts with the
Abrahamic Covenant That's
the mother of all covenant
and the Abrahamic
Covenant.
Some have shown up to
sixteen to seventeen
different features or
aspects because it's
repeated ready for this
twenty times in the book
of Genesis alone Wow
it's referred to like
and his
descendants a land.
A seed and that they will
be a war why blessing
the New Testament does but
that doesn't mean that the
seed doesn't have multiple
implication absolutely to
plural to refer to the
nation of Israel so some
people side because
of the seed.
Was Christ then therefore
the seeds so the speaker
of the corporate use of
that like the same covers
the sea shore of the stars
in the sky as he looked up
or not going to be
fulfilled as well to both
fan and so that is
repeated as I say twenty
times he kind of get the
you know in the Bible once
emphasize pins repeat
and then you have the
expansion of that into
other covenants like the
Devitt covenant in Second
Samuel seven he's going
to give to David an heir
that's going to rule
and there are land
implications
on that as well
and then you have the land
of Israel covenant which
is in Deuteronomy.
Specifically talking about
the fact that God has
promised the land to the
nation of Israel and so
you have then.
As the prophets start
coming along in the seven
hundred eight hundred
then they write books
and every profit talks
about a future return to
Israel except Jonah
because he's dealing with
min of in the Gentiles
Jeremiah or as the kewl
that talk about all these
how bad they are and some
of the replacement for the
theologians and placement
theologians as someone who
believes that Israel and
finished in history and
God replace them forever
with the church also call
super session ism in the
words of someone sits in
someone else's seat when
I was a kid we watched T.
V.
and We would fight over
the best position and
someone would get up and
go to the bathroom you'd
go jump in there
and you would.
You became a super session
if you get in their seat
and then they come that I
want that even though I've
been even you might not
have known you had said
it's a fancy name but
that's what you were doing
exactly that that super
sessions and I believe the
church has superceded
Israel but that violates
so many scriptures that if
they had a New Testament
his giving the land to
them forever for a purpose
or a person who wrote the
forward to this book I
used to give lectures
on college campuses
and paddled How did the
story is real that he goes
in here by their job lacks
your use of all you you
know if you can destroy
the sun moon and stars he
said you know you go and
you blow up the moon and
I'm decides go Begad you
Holly blow up the sun and
then you blow up every
star in the universe you
know maybe well he thought
I would have Arabs
but you can't you can't
destroy us that's what the
Lord said There they go
there the only ancient
people that have left
their land remained retain
their ethnic identity and
returned to their land in
the history or nobody else
has done that right and
that's why it's a mess
over there but it's a mess
because site then is in
opposition to God is why
that well that's the whole
reason for the opposition
Yes and we have yet
another program to do it
we'll talk about
Revelation twelve where
the dragon has persecuted
the woman that you please
and we could still take
that out but any other
subset of cases you
referred to Jeremiah at
his temple servant in
Jeremiah seven and again
in chapter twenty five
he uses a phrase about.
The land will be theirs
for ever and ever Yes that
he uses what we call a
grammar superlative OK
and these other than those
two uses that you just
mention referring to
the land it's all.
and so that shows you what
he thinks in the land made
it real and we can write
a book and I've seen some
titles whose land is it
you know whose land is it
anyway ultimately it's God
it's God Even earth is the
Lord's and the fullness
thereof and he gives the
land to me that's all
rights and that's why it's
contested Yes because God
has specifically spoken
and sight than who is the
god of this world responds
in this way In fact in
many ways Islam was
created to oppose Israel
I totally have a religion
and I believe that was
Satan's masterstroke Yes
Talk about a
return to legalism
but he love is not one of
us wow we're going to be
at a cliffhanger right
here I want to take this
back up into another
program with you and talk
about the Palestinian
Israel crisis today and
some of these things
about the history of the
theology through the ages
or the Prince of God and
the nation itself is that
the people but ultimately
there came one out of the
nation
and he is the
hero the star.
The champion of all time
of the universe Jesus the
Messiah
and have peace with God
Surrender your life to
Christ and experience
forgiveness and salvation
and eternity call on his
name today and be saved
and it till then we're
going to keep looking up.
