JUDY WOODRUFF: With the Democratic and Republican
National Conventions both behind us, it is
the perfect time for the analysis of Shields
and Brooks.
That is syndicated columnist Mark Shields
and New York Times columnist David Brooks.
I haven't seen enough of the two of you this
week. I'm so glad you're back with us on this
Friday night. So much to talk about.
But, Mark, I'm going to start with you.
The Republicans had their chance the last
four nights. How well did they make their
case?
MARK SHIELDS: Well, Judy, we will find out
in the numbers, when they do come out probably
next week.
But I would say, to listen to the Republican
speakers, which I was privileged to do, especially
the nominee, was to conclude that the country
had been brought back from the economic precipice,
from the darkest of times by the unrivaled
leadership of President Trump, and then to
be told, in spite of that, the country is
in chaos, we're surrounded by lawlessness,
and all the rest of it.
And so we -- what we had to do was to change
and elect an outsider, Donald Trump.
So, it was -- I have never anybody run as
both the incumbent and the insurgent at the
same time. But it's obvious that Donald Trump
is a lot more comfortable running as the insurgent
of 2016 than he is the incumbent of 2020.
JUDY WOODRUFF: David, how did you size up
how the Republicans did?
DAVID BROOKS: You know, when you start a big
enterprise, you try to have a strategy.
You figure out what year, it is, what the
big issues are and what you're going to do
about it. And you give the Biden team credit,
because they started in 2019 and said, the
number one issue is Donald Trump. The country
is exhausted, wants a uniter. And they stuck
with that strategy through thick and thin.
I really don't know what the Republican strategy
is right now. They have no coherent critique
of Biden. They have no coherent critique of
or sense of what the priority is right now.
And they have no general argument to make.
I think that was revealed in the Trump speech,
that he was just all over the map, because
there's no core idea at the center of the
thing. They may be on the course of gravitating
toward law and order as their central argument.
But I wouldn't say they have got there yet.
They're just kind of scattershot.
JUDY WOODRUFF: And, Mark, does that -- so
where does that leave this contest right now?
Given what the Republicans said over four
nights, where are we now?
MARK SHIELDS: Judy, we went in with a 10-point
lead for Joe Biden. In all likelihood, that
lead will be narrowed when we come out of
the Republican Convention.
And the -- what we're looking at now is a
long, brutish, really scorched-earth campaign
from the White House. Make no mistake about
it. That's what we're looking forward to.
The debates will be influential, if not determinate,
but we heard Joe Biden accused of being feckless
and unaccomplished in 45 years, and yet the
most terrifying threat to the American republic,
if elected, as a socialist, a closet socialist
despot.
And so that's just a whiff of what we're looking
at, and whether we're looking forward to it
or not is another question.
JUDY WOODRUFF: David, the Republicans did
spend a lot of time going after Joe Biden.
Does that help them? I mean, they have clearly
tried to not only draw distinctions. They
have painted him in some pretty dark places.
DAVID BROOKS: Yes, I'd say it went both ways
over the last two weeks.
JUDY WOODRUFF: Yes.
DAVID BROOKS: The perversity of this year
is that I would say the Democrats had the
better convention, a more creative convention.
Biden gave a much better speech. Obamas gave
good speeches.
But I would say, if you measure the mood both
in the Democratic and Republican camps, Democrats
are a little more anxious and Republicans
are a little more confident.
And so I think that has something to do with
the conventions. It has something to do with
what's happened outside of the conventions,
Kenosha, and this sense of rising crime and
violence.
And I do think -- the Democrats, I think,
have come to understand, they somehow got
on the wrong side of order. And they got somehow
attached, even though Biden is not actually
attached to it, to the idea of defunding the
police.
And they need to somehow make some gesture
to show they understand the insecurity of
the American people. The country has been
through an anxious time, with the pandemic,
economic turmoil. There's just this great
sense of fear, of fear and a sense of unsafety,
physical unsafety, from the pandemic and everything
else.
And somehow they have to address that. Now,
a lot of law and order talk is code word for
racism. There's no question about that. But
I think a lot of it is not.
And I think Democrats would be making a mistake
if they just said, oh, you're all just a bunch
of cryptoracists. I think people have legitimate
concerns about expressing their opinion safely,
about living safely.
And so I think Biden really would do well
by himself to somehow address this issue and
say, no, we're for policing, we want to reform
policing, but we will keep you safe.
This is just an elemental issue of politics
stretching back 3,000 or 4,000 years.
JUDY WOODRUFF: Mark, have the Democrats have
gotten off on the wrong foot when it comes
to this law and order or order argument, as
David describes it?
MARK SHIELDS: Yes, they have, Judy.
I mean, I think that Portland remains a festering
boil for Democrats, that what went on in Seattle
and has been reported by The Times and other
news organizations is really just unacceptable
in a civilized society, in a law-abiding society.
And Democrats cannot be appear to be indifferent.
It's Donald Trump's opening. I mean, Donald
Trump's going to run on law and order. He
has no doubt -- no question about that.
It was interesting that there was so heavily
populated with African American speakers in
his behalf at the convention, which I think
was, more than anything, a political gesture
and initiative to reach out to suburban, particularly
women voters who have been turned off by the
Republicans.
So, it's -- race is a -- race remains the
constant in American politics. But I think
David makes a good point.
JUDY WOODRUFF: David, it's interesting you
say that, because we went into these conventions
thinking the pandemic was the overwhelming
issue, thing out there that these candidates
were going to have to grapple with, that the
president was going to have to answer for.
It sounds like you're saying, in the last
few weeks, that that's been displaced?
DAVID BROOKS: Yes, I wouldn't say displaced.
I think, out in the real world, the pandemic
is still the number one issue. And if you
ask people, that's number one. I think crime
and rising disorder, I think it's number four
or five on the list, bigger -- higher than
immigration, higher than a lot of things.
So, I still think the pandemic is the issue.
But it'll -- I will be very curious to see.
The Times, my newspaper, had sent out two
reporters to Wisconsin after Kenosha. And
they interviewed a series of people who were
leaning toward Biden, and had second thoughts
because of a sense of rising insecurity.
And whether that's anecdote or data, we will
find out in a few days. So, I still think
it's in the mix.
But political correctness was a big issue
for Republicans and for Trump in 2016. And
the sense that you can't speak freely, the
sense that -- you look at pictures of Rand
Paul, for example, Senator Rand Paul leaving
the White House, and getting brutally verbally
assaulted, these pictures are not good.
Most people are not on Twitter, and they're
not seeing them. But, for those on Twitter,
those who are seeing them, those in the Facebook
conservative sphere, it's become the dominant
story, at least in that world.
JUDY WOODRUFF: At the same time, Mark, you
have this very powerful social movement right
now for racial justice, just today, thousands
of Americans on the National Mall.
I was listening to some of it, parents, siblings
of Blacks, Black Americans who've been killed
by police asking for justice, asking when.
I mean, the plea from Doc Rivers this week,
the coach of the Clippers, saying, I love
my country. Why doesn't my country love me
back?
The Democrats are hearing that. Don't -- I
mean, what's going to happen to that while
all this is going on, the fear factor, if
you will?
MARK SHIELDS: Well, Judy, I mean, the Democrats
have to be able to walk and chew gum at the
same time.
I mean, their record -- and the Democrats
have a proud record, I mean, whether you're
talking about Harry Truman desegregating the
American military, a noble act in the middle
of a presidential campaign, or Lyndon Johnson
passing the landmark Civil Rights Acts of
1964 and 65, the Democrats really have a sterling
record, and defending those laws as well.
And Donald Trump and the Republicans really
can't compete with it. So, those credentials
are established. But they have to also establish
the fact that we are -- we're here to protect
the safety of ordinary citizens from mobs.
I mean, that's what has happened in a number
of places, whether it's destroying small businesses
or putting -- or threatening people at the
same time.
You mention about the coronavirus. I think
it's important to remember this, that while
the Republicans were convening at the White
House, the people's house, as Ronald Reagan
called it -- when somebody said, your White
House, he said, no, no, this is the people's
White House. I'm a temporary occupant
But during the time of that convention, more
Americans died, the coronavirus pandemic,
than died at 9/11 or died at Pearl Harbor.
I mean, that is -- that is central to this
campaign. It will define this campaign.
JUDY WOODRUFF: David, how do you see the Democrats
handling this, what they're hearing from their
constituents, many of them saying, what are
you going to do about racial justice, at the
same time the Republicans are yelling, are
saying to them, hey, we're afraid?
DAVID BROOKS: Yes, I mean, I am really struck
by the importance of boundary-setting.
I mean, what happened here in D.C., the march
today, was wonderful. What's happened in the
NBA is wonderful. I talked about baseball
last night on the show. Some of this stuff
is wonderful.
I think people are really proud and hopeful
that progress -- amidst all the pain, that
progress is being made, education is being
made, that people are mobilizing.
But you have got to draw a boundary between
that and a lot of the violence. And, frankly,
a lot of the violence I see in Washington,
it's young white people who are doing a lot
of that stuff. And -- but so you draw that
boundary.
And that should be a boundary that Kamala
Harris and Joe Biden can draw. Trump has not
drawn any boundaries. He can't draw a boundary
between the Republican Party and QAnon, which
should be the easiest boundary to draw.
And so your movement doesn't stay healthy
unless you draw a boundary separating what's
good and peaceful and democratic and civil
from what's not, from what's illiberal, violent
and, frankly, self-destructive to your whole
movement.
And so I think that boundary line can be drawn.
It's been drawn by most politicians in most
times. And I think -- I hope, in the days
ahead, the Democrats will draw that line.
JUDY WOODRUFF: We will see. The campaign begins
in earnest right now, after these conventions.
David Brooks, Mark Shields, thank you. And
thank you for being with us for these last
two weeks.
