JOSHUA WILLIAMS: Hello everybody. Did everyone have a good week?
I'm gonna take that as a yes, a resounding yes. Come on down, let's get started.
Um, quick announcement.
So I did double check, because we've been having some issues with the space,
and we are going to be back in the Haft next week.
Okay? So it's our last time in the Haft, next week in the Haft, then we're back in here for the rest of the semester,
so I just wanted to make sure that you were aware of that. Next week, we'll be having Mark Drew speak.
He's a photographer, fashion photographer, a fine art photographer.
And we will again be meeting in the Haft.
So just make sure that you get there as early as possible so we can get started on time.
All right. It's a lot of activity going on today. So I want to, um,
introduce our speaker of today, Sylvia Heisel. I'm so excited to have her come.
She was highly recommended from one of our earlier speakers, Eric Soldat. As you know,
we've been talking a lot about textiles in particular this semester, and I think that
Sylvia's perspective in particular will be of great interest to you. Sylvia is a fashion designer.
She's a creative director working with new materials, manufacturing,
and physical computing for fashion and wearables.
She's an expert on 3D printing,
functional fashion, designing smart wearables,
and new material application-- or manufacturing applications for fashion.
She's developing a workflow and manufacturing system for 3D printed apparel.
She's named one of the 25 forward thinkers defining the future of fashion,
one of the top 100 women in wearable consumer tech
and 12 amazing people you need to know in New York fashion tech.
She's a frequent speaker on the fashion-- on fashion tech.
She's led workshops on 3D printing. And she is the founder of her own studio,
Heisel 3D Labs,
wherein she works with designers and other clients to develop their fabrics and designs.
So, thank you so much Sylvia for coming and welcome.
[applause]
[inaudible]
J. WILLIAMS: All right, we're live.
SYLVIA HEISEL: Okay.
J. WILLIAMS: So nice to have you.
S. HEISEL: Hey, thank you.
Nice to be here. Hey all. [inaudible]
J. WILLIAMS: So Sylvia has a really interesting sort of arc in her career and,
so I thought we would just start sort of at the beginning a little bit here and just kind of find out how you ended
up in the fashion industry and
ultimately as a fashion designer. And we'll kind of get in how that pivot happened later on.
S. HEISEL: Okay, sure.
So I, I was the little girl that wanted to be a designer and I started-- I actually didn't go to fashion school.
I just started when I was about 18. I started making clothes, making jewelry initially,
selling it.
Spent a bunch of years
starving and
working every other job.
Became a designer, built up a business,
became a CFDA member,
had that business be successful and then watched that business
sort of become really
paralyzing and not creative
and start to go down and
then had to go, "Okay. I don't want to do this for the rest of my life. What do I want to do?"
And then got into technology and how can we make things in new ways and how could we--
how could I get excited about fashion again?
J. WILLIAMS: What was it about fashion at that time that was sort of pulling you down?
Was it just the business aspect of it or just
working with the same materials over and over and over again--
S. HEISEL: I think the same materials and the same manufacturing.
You know, I think once you build up a brand,
you have a couple of styles and that's what everybody wants and that's what you're known for.
And you know, each season, four to six times a year,
we'd be like, "Okay, it's new and we're doing something new and it's all gonna be exciting and new,"
and nothing was new and there wasn't-- none of our retailers wanted anything new.
They wanted the same thing
recolored, maybe an inch longer,
a variation on it, but anything different they'd be like, "Oh no, that's not good."
So it was, it was the nothing of new.
J. WILLIAMS: It's so interesting because that really is
success in the fashion industry. If you have a style that can--
that continues to get reordered over and over and over again,
and that you're known for something that-- that really--
S. HEISEL: That's how you make money.
J. WILLIAMS: Right, that's how you make money.
S. HEISEL: That's how you make money. That's how you make money. That's how your business grows and
as long as you go into it knowing that,
that's awesome.
But if you go into it thinking, "I'm gonna be creative and I'm going to do things
that are different each season and what I want to do is create new things,"
that-- that sucks. It's like...
J. WILLIAMS: So you saw the-- the money going up and the creativity going down, essentially?
S. HEISEL: Yeah, and then, and then at a certain point because we were doing eveningwear.
Also, the money started to go down because you could see that
the styles were changing and that people weren't dressing as much and that
there's less and less eveningwear and especially less high-end eveningwear.
So, it wasn't like, "Oh we're gonna be able to scale this further."
J. WILLIAMS: Right. So you saw an end or an expiration date on that. Was it,
I mean, in eveningwear, obviously you get to work with a lot of beautiful
fabrics and-- and work with some of the best, you know--
S. HEISEL: Right.
J. WILLIAMS: Sewers and such, but,
what was it about sort of the textiles themselves that kind of got you interested and sort of
in them specifically and sort of how they're developed and ultimately how they might be developed differently?
S. HEISEL: Um, I think I-- you know, I came to that kind of later.
Um, I started out just with
looking around and what is new. And what was inspiring. And I started out with
technology and with, like, okay, the world is changing because of
tech stuff and I would go--
There were, initially, there were a couple of-- there are a couple of conferences on
wearable tech.
And I went to those and I was literally the only fashion person there.
J. WILLIAMS: Oh, interesting.
S. HEISEL: Like, there is--
in the world of wearables, it was all engineers. It was all...
J. WILLIAMS: Techs.
S. HEISEL: Hardcore tech and, um,
electronics people. And I'd be like, "Hi, I'm in fashion and this is wearables." And they look at me like,
"What's that?"
[laughs]
J. WILLIAMS: What year was this when you started?
S. HEISEL: Um, this is like seven or eight years ago.
J. WILLIAMS: Okay. Oh, wow, so it's not even that long ago.
S. HEISEL: So it's not that long ago and they're still aren't that many people in fashion at those conferences.
J. WILLIAMS: Mm-hmm.
S. HEISEL: There is still a real wide gap and a really big opportunity.
J. WILLIAMS: Oh interesting.
S. HEISEL: Yeah
J. WILLIAMS: I know you had some pictures so I want to make sure-- from your early collections and early--
S. HEISEL: Yeah.
J. WILLIAMS: Work. Let's make sure we hit a few of those.
S. HEISEL: So, okay, so this is what I used to do.
Um, those are all, those are silks, uh
and that was the stuff we were known for. Was really clean, elegant, easy.
Lots of colors. And that was the stuff that got really boring.
[laughs] Um, and...
J. WILLIAMS: How long is a long time ago? Like ten years ago? [laughs]
S. HEISEL: Yeah, those are like ten or twelve--
Okay, no, those are, yeah those are like, those are probably--
I think that was like 12 years ago. But those styles were ones that we just did over and over again, so...
Um, so this was the first 3D printing thing that I did and
this was,
as you could see, 2012 with iPhone 4.
I went to, there's a thing called Maker Faire,
and that was the first time I really saw 3D printing. It was like, "Oh my god, how do I use this for fashion?"
This is the most amazing, different way of making things.
And the only thing we could come up with-- at the time you couldn't do anything flexible.
J. WILLIAMS: Right.
S. HEISEL: There was no way to make it close or anything.
Um, that's a bioplastic. It's pretty limited what you can do.
So, we made iPhone cases and we made monogrammed iPhone cases,
but in 2012 you couldn't have
monogramming options on a website.
J. WILLIAMS: Because of Apple?
S. HEISEL: Because you couldn't have that many different selections--
J. WILLIAMS: Oh, okay.
S. HEISEL: On an e-commerce site.
J. WILLIAMS: Right. Okay.
S. HEISEL: This is how far we have come quickly. [laughs]
So the site that we were selling on was like, "Well don't worry about it.
Just do some, you know, do what the fuck. Do sex. Do, you know."
J. WILLIAMS: [laughs]
S. HEISEL: Um, so that was our first 3D printed-- our first 3D printing.
This
was
our first 3D print and we, we sold actually a lot of those iPhone cases.
Those iPhone cases were very successful, um,
and got us into the 3D printing world. And this was the first
3D printed dress
that I did and this was done for a trade show.
And I had been going, "Now, it's impossible. You-- we're never gonna be able to 3D print dresses. We can't do it.
It won't work. The technology's not there."
And then someone came to me and said,
"Here's, you know, we want you to make a dress for this big 3D printing show."
It was like, "Okay. Fine."
And that started it and I will never again say, "No, that's impossible, you can't make that."
J. WILLIAMS: Interesting.
S. HEISEL: Yeah.
So this dress you totally couldn't sit down in or it all-- it's a mesh. It would all break apart.
But it looked really good, so who cares.
J. WILLIAMS: So, that had to have been like a new creative spark, then, to be able to--
S. HEISEL: Yeah.
J. WILLIAMS: Realize there are things you hadn't thought of doing before.
S. HEISEL: Yeah, and just think okay-- you know if there's one thing I've learned from the tech world it's that
they all go
think of what you want to do and then figure out a way to do it. If you-- if there's not a
machine that makes it,
make a machine. Make the machine. If there's not the material,
find people that will make the material. Don't-- don't think, "Oh, I can't do that because
some part of it doesn't exist."
J. WILLIAMS: That's interesting.
S. HEISEL: Yeah.
J. WILLIAMS: And something that doesn't get talked about in fashion.
S. HEISEL: It doesn't-- yeah. Fashion has, you know, fashion we're used to picking things out.
We're used to--
we're gonna go and we're gonna look at swatches and we're gonna pick which ones we like,
and we're gonna look at how we can make
things and the different stitches and what we can use and we're gonna put all that together.
And tech just starts out with,
"What do you want to do?"
J. WILLIAMS: So you start from the end and work backwards--
S. HEISEL: And work back, yeah.
So--
J. WILLIAMS: So was your studio involved with this?
I mean were they--
S. HEISEL: We-- we printed this. This was a nightmare to print. This was a complete,
complete nightmare to make. Um-- [laughs]
J. WILLIAMS: It looks so effortless though in that picture. [laughs]
S. HEISEL: Right! It looks so effortless.
Okay, it's not a-- it's actually, it wasn't as effortless
as this one.
This one was a coat. This was the first flexible people--piece. And this is,
uh, this was the first flexible material that you could 3D print.
And we were commissioned by a
technology lounge in London to make something that was 3D printed that everyone could put on.
They wanted something-- Instead of being, like, custom, they wanted something really huge
so that
anyone any size could put it on and understand.
J. WILLIAMS: Enjoy it, right.
S. HEISEL: Yeah, so it was 400 hours of print time.
J. WILLIAMS: It's like a couture dress.
[laughing]
S. HEISEL: So it was, you know, it came out great but it was like,
so much time and so much effort on that one.
J. WILLIAMS: Were you finding also that you were kind of,
overlapping in the art world in a way that you hadn't as well? Because, there was sort of this
interest, you know, in tech and art in a way that didn't happen in fa-- with fashion early on.
S. HEISEL: Yeah, I think there's starting to be.
There are a lot of artists using 3D printing.
Um, we haven't had that much
connection with them.
Interestingly, I think a lot of them have trouble with the idea that it's going to be wearable and that--
J. WILLIAMS: Right.
S. HEISEL: Yeah. I don't know. Interesting though, to think about that.
So that's the whole coat. And then,
uh, this was then for a 3D printed dress
that was
shown.
That was-- there was an attempt to make something really wearable
and really like, this dress you can actually wear.
It could be custom fitted
and made the exact size for the person.
J. WILLIAMS: Were you thinking at this time that, "Oh, maybe this is
gonna be fashion design from a 3D perspective,"
or just, "I'm gonna change my studio?" Were you really thinking of,
"I'm moving a totally different direction?"
S. HEISEL: When we did this it was really at that point,
you know, this is two years ago.
And it was really like, okay, let's just make stuff because nobody believes it's possible.
Nobody in 3D printing world
thinks you can make clothes. Nobody in fashion has a clue what 3D printing is.
Um, and at this point the main thing that we started-- you know, I started really seeing was that
because you're just printing what you want,
it's a zero-waste process.
J. WILLIAMS: Oh! Right.
S. HEISEL: And I think that's one of the really interesting things with it, is that
you know, and everyone wanted to be printing
in 3D and it's gonna be a really long time before we can print
a whole dress and before anyone's gonna print a dress at home
or any of that.
But to-- like, these are printed in flat and then assembled
and, instead of cutting anything out, you're just
printing the textile.
J. WILLIAMS: Hm.
S. HEISEL: And you're, you're essentially welding it together.
So you're only, you know-- in traditional
fabric, 15% is on the cutting room floor.
J. WILLIAMS: Right.
S. HEISEL: So,
here's a way to make something without any waste
and with each piece to be customized.
J. WILLIAMS: It's so interesting because in a way you're sort of
reconnecting--- in this case, it's a whole new textile.
But you're reconnecting to the material in a way that you probably didn't as a fashion designer.
Because you mentioned sort of going around and picking swatches--
S. HEISEL: Picking out. Yeah, yeah.
J. WILLIAMS: So what is it like, sort of almost thinking about,
"How do I want this to feel and how is it going to assemble,"
you know
before it even exists.
S. HEISEL: Um, it's a--
It's fun and it's really challenging. It's a really different
design process and I think that's part of what's coming with it.
You know, there's you know Modern Meadow or bolt fabrics and that idea that, that
fabric starts out as
a liquid-y chemical and it can be anything.
You know, what the fabric is and how it looks and how it feels
is all in the design process and it can be whatever you want.
J. WILLIAMS: Very powerful.
S. HEISEL: Super exciting, yeah. It's super exciting.
J. WILLIAMS: So was there a moment where you just felt that there was--
or I guess I should ask
when was the moment you sort of felt the shift from, "I'm a designer," to,
"I'm gonna open the 3D lab and I'm going to sort of engage in a different way"?
S. HEISEL: I think it wasn't a moment. It was really a gradual thing because I had already been working,
at this point, doing these-- I had been working with wearables for a while and working with, you know,
that part of the tech community, the other-- the other thing they, they can imagine and create anything.
Um, they're not real good at,
okay, a human being is going to have to put this on and, you know
we did-- we had projects where they'd be like, you know, someone will come in with this
sort of
computer looking thing and they're like, "Yeah and, and people are gonna wear it."
And I'd be like, "No!"
[laughs] Like, um...
J. WILLIAMS: There's this like
connection to not only between wearable but also it has to be beautiful--
S. HEISEL: It has something--
J. WILLIAMS: Or has something to say.
S. HEISEL: Yeah, it has to, and I think that's where fashion is really important
to-- you know, where, where the tech community can't and that industry can't exist
without fashion because
it has to be beautiful. It goes on a human being.
We are not gonna succeed in wearables
until we make stuff that people want to wear, you know.
Um, it just doesn't--
it doesn't really matter what it does if people won't wear it.
We worked on a project that was a technology
that was an adaptive technology for blind people and it was a
sensor off a hat.
So that they could sense--, because a cane only senses what's waist down sort of, and this was...
And the first iteration of it,
they had created this thing and they gave it to
blind people to test and the response was, "I'm not gonna wear that thing. It looks really weird."
And they all refused to wear it and...
They, they were very conscious of, "I don't want to look like a blind person.
I don't want to wear this weird-looking thing. I'd rather risk
walking into something."
J. WILLIAMS: So they could intuit sort of how it felt.
S. HEISEL: Yeah, they could tell, they had their friends kind of like--
people don't-- people are people. We want to, you know
we care about
how we look, how we feel in things.
J. WILLIAMS: Well, I'm so glad you brought this up because there's something I wanted to ask you
because when you start talking about
wearable technology and just
fabrics that can be so much more than just a fabric,
you know, you do start to get into these interesting realms of possibility with, with--
in terms of
blind. Uh, I'm working with some students in the graduate school on
sensory issues and-- and psychological sort of therapy.
And I'm curious just, I mean, that's a whole new world, right?
I mean, most designers are not thinking about their clothing as
something more than something we put on our bodies.
So, so does that also expand sort of how you think about clothing? I mean there must be,
now that you're thinking, "How do they look"--
S. HEISEL: Yes.
J. WILLIAMS: Plus, how does it function--
S. HEISEL: It has to, how does it function.
I mean, I think that's very important, you know, going forward, clothing functions.
Clothing is going to function. And the function is going to be really important. It already--
we're seeing that already in athletic apparel. You know, what does it do? Does it heat? Does it cool?
Does it make you jump higher?
All the things that it can do.
And that's going to expand a lot.
The other part of that is that it's gonna kick back all this data and
that's,
there's a lot of controversy around that and there's a lot of good and bad.
J. WILLIAMS: In terms of how it can track people and, and their, what they're doing and their health--
S. HEISEL: Yeah.
Their health. Their health or also marketing to them. I mean, most clothes--
not most clothes-- but a lot of, a few very big brands and retailers now have RFID chips in it. And,
so they know when you, when you walk back into that store where you bought it,
they know you're there,
and they know everything else you bought.
You know?
J. WILLIAMS: And then you sign onto your Wi-Fi and then they have--
S. HEISEL: And then they have everything--
J. WILLIAMS: All your information--
S. HEISEL: Right, everything else.
J. WILLIAMS: [laughs]
S. HEISEL: Yeah, and they insist they're not connecting it to your credit card.
[laughs]
J. WILLIAMS: There is so many overlaps now, but I'm curious like when you--
so a typical client, is it more of a tech person coming in and asking you to solve a problem or is it now
fashion people coming in and saying--
S.HEISEL: It's every single one of them is totally different right now--
J. WILLIAMS: Okay. So tell us a little bit about sort of...
S. HEISEL: Okay, so they have ranged from
yeah, tech companies that, that come in with a
a tech product that they want to put into a piece of clothing.
They want it to be a wearable, and they have, you know
they, yeah, they have no idea where to begin with that in general on some of them.
Or some of them will have a real
strong idea but, whatever, anyway, but, but coming from the tech side and then
fashion companies
wanting to either make something that's different or
incorporate technology into their clothing.
A lot-- with 3D printing we're doing a lot of prototyping and setting up custom things that are
buttons, zipper pulls,
customized
trims and stuff.
More than clothing. But, but doing stuff that way, especially with small brands that you can do,
you can do custom things that you couldn't have done
earlier that, that you would have had to be a major global brand to do the quantities on them.
J. WILLIAMS: I heard, um,
a speaker here last year mentioned that there's a whole new potential for IP
issues because of te-- because of this because all of a sudden there's the potential to customize protein
into leathers in a particular design. Do you see that as kind of in the horizon?
S. HEISEL: Yeah, I don't see it as more than it's been
otherwise. I don't see it as--
You know, I think that's always been there. That's always been, um...
We were on a
thing that was tracing all these different
innovations in fashion, and they were talking about you know,
that this woman that, that one of the first women to have a patent
on something was the underwire for a bra and like
you know, there's always been these issues, so it's not any different
And I think, if anything, there is
you know, it's more... I don't know it's more fluid. We have had
some stuff where it's been an issue.
Where, you know, there are, there are companies that just sit on IP for things
and they don't really do anything with it
and you just go ahead and, you just go ahead and make stuff and ignore it.
And then if they-- if you really come up with something, they're either gonna buy you out or
send you a cease and desist.
J. WILLIAMS: So fashion as usual then.
S. HEISEL: Yeah, yeah.
J. WILLIAMS: [laughs]
I want to go back to something. I, I joke with my--
not these students
but in my 101 classes about how oftentimes clothing,
it creates the problem and then we then figure out how to use clothing to fix the problem.
So, for example, wicking fabrics or things that make us cool or heated. Our body does that naturally.
And I'm curious if you think that
the more we sort of head into technology, the more that
designers have to start
thinking these through a little bit more
fundamentally than before, where we just sort of said, "Well, you have to wear a shirt so we'll make it wick."
[laughs]
S. HEISEL: Right, um, I think you do because I think it starts with-- I think the design process--
the function is part of the design process now and so you have to know
how those things work.
You may not be able to do it yourself,
but you have to know how it happens and that it's, it's possible
and what is possible, what isn't possible.
And that
that's what you, you know you design in the function.
J. WILLIAMS: Do you think there's like a scientific piece to that where designers will need to go--
I'm just, you know, kind of thinking this through my head that maybe
somebody who's working on, let's say a compression bra,
for example, for running. For a very particular type of running.
You know, would they,
with all that data that you're talking about,
is that something now that designers might even be going to scientists and asking for that data
and, and really thinking about this as
utilitarian functional more so than fashion really does?
S. HEISEL: I think, I think it does and I think, you know, one of the things that
kind of makes me crazy about fashion is that we are still designing in Illustrator
and Illustrator doesn't have any data.
Illustrator doesn't have any specs
to it and
most of the newer, you know, a lot of the newer software that goes into patternmaking and things
built in
the measurements and the stretch and the compression
and has the potential to build all that technology in so that as you're designing,
you can go, "Okay. It's gonna stretch. It's gonna wick. It's gonna...," and that just becomes part of it.
J. WILLIAMS: So like something like CLO or--
S. HEISEL: Yeah.
J. WILLIAMS: Yeah.
Are you guys aware of CLO?
S. HEISEL: CLO?
J. WILLIAMS: No? So I know the graduate school is--
S. HEISEL: Okay.
J. WILLIAMS: Actually using CLO now.
S. HEISEL: Okay.
J. WILLIAMS: Yeah, but it's amazing technology
in terms of--
S. HEISEL: It's 3D visualization. I mean, the other,
the other big industrial programs have like Gerber and Electra and things have it also.
CLO is making it much more accessible to designers and
what it really does is 3D visualizations of your patterns and your designs, so
you're, as you're
designing,
you can see how it will look on an avatar and your avatar can be anything.
I mean, your avatar can be this bottle and you will
drape, you'll pick-- you know, you'll pick or create a fabric
and drape it on the bottle. And you'll say, "Okay. I want it to be stretch and I want it to be compression."
And you can start-- you, you design all that in.
Or you want it to be very loose and drapey. And then you can see it in motion.
J. WILLIAMS: So it's a lot where sort of architecture has gone right?
In the sense that, I mean the buildings that are being made today couldn't have been built even--
S. HEISEL: Right.
J. WILLIAMS: 20 years ago. Right?
S. HEISEL: Right.
J. WILLIAMS: Let's go back to you a little bit. I know,
I forget what your next slide is here, but you transition sort of, if I remember correctly--
S. HEISEL: Oh, yeah, okay.
This is another example of
what goes wrong in fashion and tech and how the world's disconnect of them because this dress was
incredibly cold. This is 3D printing
on a tulle mesh.
And
we, um-- which is a really great process and we did some really, really cool stuff with it and then
a photographer shot this for us. And then the people who did the 3D printing part completely freaked out
because they're--
J. WILLIAMS: Too sexy?
S. HEISEL: Quite religious and they're used to making
machines and things. And they
completely flipped out on us and so
this is the only place that this ever gets shown
is when I'm speaking.
J. WILLIAMS: Congratulations you all.
[laughs]
That's so interesting because, I don't know, I think sometimes we forget sort of that
fluidity that we have in the fashion industry--
S. HEISEL: Yes.
J. WILLIAMS: Around bodies and sexuality that I wouldn't have thought of with tech.
S. HEISEL: Yeah. Um,
you know, you're working with people who make machines and who are
engineers and who build things and they build
tables and stuff like this and
yeah, bodies kind of freak them out sometimes.
[laughs]
So...
Then
this,
this is the first piece that's compostable
which is what we're working on now, is
to develop-- this is..
This was from-- and to develop from a hand sketch. So this is something--
J. WILLIAMS: Wow.
S. HEISEL:  Where I
did a drawing
and then it was brought into a CAD program and
then it was printed.
Just of that, without anything cut out.
And that is a totally compostable biplastic.
So that would decompose
in a few years.
So the idea with that is really to, you know, maybe we can make fast fashion that
isn't bad for the world.
J. WILLIAMS: Right cause a typical t-shirt is what,
sixty, seventy years to decompose?
S. HEISEL: A cotton t-shirt.
J. WILLIAMS: Yeah, cotton t-shirt, yeah.
S. HEISEL: Yeah, a polyester t-shirt is like
J. WILLIAMS: Yeah. [laughs]
S. HEISEL: I don't know. [laughs]
J. WILLIAMS: It's gonna exist longer than all of us.
S. HEISEL: Oh, yeah.
J. WILLIAMS: And it's so delicate.
Is that, I mean they're so, are the-- is the technology getting better in the sense of--
S. HEISEL: Yes.
J. WILLIAMS: The materials or the--
S. HESEL: It's getting better and it's moving forwards really, really quickly. It's not there yet where--
it's not at a point where it's really wearable and strong enough and durable,
but it's moving. You know, that didn't exist, that material didn't exist at all two years ago.
[inaudible] 
J. WILLIAMS: ...moving that fast.
S. HEISEL: Yeah, it's moving that fast where it's--
J. WILLIAMS: Well, and I know that there's a lot of interest particularly in fashion
and I mentioned the proteins that-- but just being able to do more natural organic.
Is that something that you're seeing moving faster with the interest in fashion?
Or is it still sort of-- I mean these things are moving so quickly it's hard to say it's slow, but [laughs]
S. HEISEL: Yeah, they're moving really fast.
I think the, that the technology on it's moving really fast and a lot of it's there.
The applications aren't there.
Um,
and,
and there is, you know, there is
yes some of it, some of its gonna go to really big companies.
Some of that with, like, Modern Meadow and people. It's going to
be really giant companies and so they're gonna have to launch it really big.
And then some of it is there's just stuff happening.
J. WILLIAMS: Right. Do you think that, um,
I mean, do you think that the 3D part of this is-- should be taught in design school now?
I mean, are we sort of at that point where these tools are sort of
at a company or are they still--
S. HEISEL: Um, I think that the, I think that, you know--
and FIT actually has a 3D printing department now and there's a guy named Michael Parker who's
teaching here, who's super cool.
And I think every fashion student needs to understand
design in 3D. I don't think you need to
necessarily know
how to do it to the level of creating clothes, but you need to understand how it works.
And to be able to visualize in three dimensions because I think that's, you know,
that's the future that's CLO 3D. That is, uh--
Anyone who's [sic] does gaming it's pretty familiar,
and so
you know, fashion still works flat a lot and we need to get
beyond that because that's going away.
J. WILLIAMS: That's interesting. So, what do you-- so you started your, um, your company.
It's the Sylvia or the-- sorry-- the Heisel Lab.
Not a fashion company now. I mean, although you're doing fashion.
SYLVIA: Fashion, yeah.
J. WILLIAMS: So talk through sort of what the company, what you founded the company for
and sort of what your day-to-day looks like
now that you're not the designer with the nameplate on your door.
S. HEISEL: It's super different each day.
It's uh, it's, you know
it is it's challenging and creative the way that being a designer was not for me at that point.
That every project we take is totally different at this point.
Some of them are
you know, super-- some of them are very fashion.
We did a dress. Pyer Moss had a piece in MoMA last year and
that was a really-- we actually made the whole thing
and fabricated it and worked out and he had a really
specific things that he wanted of how it would look and a lot of it
didn't really exist. So there was a lot of work, you know, that was super interesting.
Every project is different
and it's fun.
J. WILLIAMS: So do you have fashion designers then who come to you looking to do something?
Well, I'm gonna open that up. What are they looking for when they come to you because
you do a lot.
S. HEISEL: We do a lot.
Yeah, I mean most-- most of them are looking for, you know,
most of them are looking for 3D printed accessories at this point. That's the most common and the easiest
and,
and prototyping of either.
You know, a lot of it's trims that then get produced
in non 3D printed.
Um.
But then some of it's other totally crazy projects. Some of its promotional things of
clothes for
displays or you know, somebody wants something with lights in it for
a liquor company launch or something.
J. WILLIAMS: There's some marketing...
S. HEISEL: There's some yeah, there's some, you know
a lot of it's not ready because you can't really produce these clothes yet.
A lot of it's kind of weird projects that way.
J. WILLIAMS: So in a way that cross over to art a little bit yeah?
S. HEISEL: Yes, yes, totally.
J. WILLIAMS: Cause these are one-off pieces.
S. HEISEL: They are one-off. Yeah.
J. WILLIAMS: So, what do you think about designers like Iris Van Herpen
and others who are starting to incorporate those pieces on the runway.
S. HEISEL: I think it's super cool. I think it's--
J. WILLIAMS: [to audience] Have you all seen
Iris's pieces?
J. WILLIAMS: Do you think that, I mean her in particular,
I think she's just such an amazing way of integrating it into her
designs.
But, I'm curious you know, what you think and if you think there's other designers out there that are
really starting to think differently
and producing interesting results.
S. HEISEL: Yeah, I think you know, I think she's--
her case is a little complicated because she has
a-- she has access to
a very, um,
sort of large team and a lot, a lot of people work on those dresses and those dresses cost
a lot. They are really couture pieces.
She has a lot of sponsorship and...
So, in one way, they are amazing. In another way, they are not accessible for anyone else.
And they're not something--
There's one of the things with 3D printing is that there are printers that are
desktop printers. You can go and you can buy a printer on Amazon for
250 dollars and
print some things yourself. And there are other printers that are
in the mid six-figure range
that need large venting and industrial space and all.
And they create really different things.
And what you can create with your printer you bought on Amazon is not quite what you can create--
J. WILLIAMS: So there's a bit of a chasm.
S. HEISEL: There's a, yeah, there's kind of and, and some of the really interesting things
are things that are coming out of kind of do-it-yourself,
out of what people are doing
with
home printers and stuff, also.
J. WILLIAMS: I know there's a lot of--
so like Adidas and some of these sports companies
have taken an interest into-- especially shoes.
Do you think that that's where a lot of the money is in fashion right now ,at least in terms of these new
technologies? Or do you think that
you know, is that going to continue to drive activewear perhaps as [inaudible]?
S. HEISEL: Yeah.
I mean, I think you know those companies are driving innovation and fashion right now.
There's no question that Adidas and Nike are driving
their, you know, when I was talking about patents and stuff.
They're sitting on
all kinds of things.
And they have, they have big development labs for tech stuff and they're
doing really cool, really interesting stuff.
It would be really nice to see fashion companies do that. It would be really, really good if
some of the more fashion
brands started doing that.
J. WILLIAMS: Well, that's why you're there, right? Is to help facilitate it.
S. HEISEL: To help them, yeah.
Yeah, I mean some of that is happening also on the manufacturing side at scale of the big--
I think there's more of it coming from
some of the big global
manufacturers rather than the designers also.
J. WILLIAMS: And is it a,
is it happening mostly-- it means that happening in China primarily and that's where this is coming from?
S. HEISEL: China, Sri Lanka.
There's a company MAS
out of Sri Lanka that's doing really interesting stuff.
Some of the big European companies caring has got a really big initiative on
technology and sustainability in fashion.
I know they're looking at some stuff but really, you know,
how can we make things in other ways in the luxury market?
J. WILLIAMS: You mentioned that earlier. That's such an interesting intersection.
Do you think that that in many ways is
providing more impetus or more funds to sort of explore technology out?
Because often times the technology
is gimmicky right?
S. HIESEL: Right
J. WILLIAMS: And,
and yet from a sustainable point of view, it has real sort of bottom line
you know, potential.
S. HEISEL: Yeah, I think you know, there's these big gaps right now between
here's the technology people, here's the sustainability people, here's the fashion people
and somehow it all has to come together more.
It's,
it's not all,
it's not all working together yet, but it is all trying. I mean, I think there's,
you know, there are-- you know Adidas has on their 3D printing.
They are
working on some shoes that are sustainable and they are very exp-- some of them are very expensive shoes.
And that idea-- and you know, and there are some things like that where it really connects its luxury product
connected with sustainability, connected with technology, but not,
not many yet.
J. WILLIAMS: Do you have a sense of--
this is, you know, probably a very difficult question to answer--
but do you have a sense of when there might be
sort of the next tipping point for,
for technology and fashion?
Because we've sort of hit one and I'm curious if you just think
we're getting close to another.
S. HEISEL: Mm. I think it's gonna be more gradual. I think there's gonna be a, you know,
I think that we are gonna slowly
incorporate things.
Um.
You know, when we did, we did a skirt with lights in it about five years ago
and when we sent it out to photo shoots
we had a couple of times where we were like, "Oh, no, the models won't wear it
because they're afraid of getting electrocuted."
Um, and that's gone. Like, that is five years ago and that has totally changed.
Nobody thinks that they're gonna blow up if they wear something that has--
J. WILLIAMS: Well they sleep with their iPhone under their--
S. HEISEL: Right.
J. WILLIAMS: Pillow anyways, so, right?
S. HEISEL: So we've gotten that far on we're all used to technology now.
It doesn't do anything great yet.
But it's, you know,
it's coming. I think there's gonna have to be something much cooler looking than there is right now.
J. WILLIAMS: Right.
I want to open it up to, to the students because I think there'll be some questions for you. Um, if you don't mind,
can we grab the mic and...
Perfect. You start.
AUDIENCE MEMBER: Uh, good afternoon.
The first question is how challenging was to integrate
your knowledge of fashion to 3D printing and smart
textiles and wearables?
S. HEISEL: It's, you know, it's, it's,
it's super challenging.
I think the main thing is, you know, each project is challenging,
but I think the main thing is learning to work with,
um, a bigger team on it because I am not-- you know,
when I was designing clothes, I wasn't the pattern maker, but I knew how to
look at what the pattern, look at what the pattern maker was doing and go, "Okay. I like that.
I don't like that. Change that." But I didn't know how to actually do it.
I don't know how to weave the cloth. I don't know how--
this is the same thing. You have to know
basics of engineering, basics of 3D printing.
But you don't do it yourself. You work with, you know, you just you you work with a bigger team
on creating things.
J. WILLIAMS: So interesting because it's you-- most designers aren't weaving their own things
S. HEISEL: Yeah, it's not any, you know--
J. WILLIAMS: But to understand how it works.
S. HEISEL: You understand how it works. I mean it,
I can, you know, I'm
pretty good at
3D modeling, but I'm not great at it.
I can operate a desktop printer
sometimes. [laughs]
Um,
I know
all about what,
you know, what you can do with electronics and clothes and hooking up the batteries and everything.
I can't do any of it myself.
It's about knowing what's possible and knowing how to communicate that
and listen to the people who do know and work with them.
J. WILLIAMS: Another question.
AUDIENCE MEMBER: I have another but [inaudible]
J. WILLIAMS: Sure. Is your mic on?
AUDIENCE MEMBER: Yes. Will the cost of 3D printing eventually become affordable do you think, or...
more demand will be more expensive?
S. HEISEL: I think it will be affordable on--
we're working on our stuff. We're working on,
um, 3D printing from,
direct from plastic pellets
and plastic pellets are very, very inexpensive.
Uh, so
you're looking at a much lower-- we're trying to lower the material costs to almost nothing.
Um, and it will enable--
you know, it won't enable making every kind of clothing.
It'll only make certain products but it will make it very inexpensive.
J. WILLIAMS: Alright. Another question. Oh, all the way across.
We're getting very good at this mic passing, but then to make sure we get it on the video so that we have...
[laughs]
AUDIENCE MEMBER: Okay. I was looking at your website last night, and I was looking at your creations.
So I'm curious, because you was once a fashion designer that went into 3D designs.
So I want to know, like,
um,
who insp-- what's your inspiration? What inspired you to go into 3D design and learn the technology of 3D?
S. HEISEL: I think just the idea that it was a new way to make things and that it just felt really
restrictive of how--
how we make clothes today
is based on technology that's existed for over 200 years, you know. There is--
we have seams under our arms, in between our legs, on all our clothing
because that's what you had to do to take a flat
piece of fabric that didn't stretch and wrap it around a human body.
And we don't need, you know, we don't need that anymore.
We can't 3D print a whole garment yet, but we can definitely print parts
that couldn't exist in a flat garment, so...
Creatively that seemed like,
why are we, why are we not using these things that exist?
J. WILLIAMS: It's such a buzzword right now, this whole idea of design thinking, but it really is sort of
thinking more
3D, thinking more--
S. HEISEL: Yeah.
J. WILLIAMS: Outside of the flat sort of 2D environment that we have.
S. HEISEL: Yeah and thinking, thinking out like just,
yeah, we are so held back by what we've always done.
There's so many things in fashion that are like, "Okay. That's the way we've always made this thing,
so we'll keep making it that way."
I...
There's no reason for it.
J. WILLIAMS: So do you find yourself making new things up?
I mean, you know, I don't have to do a dolman sleeve anywhere. I can just do a sleeve. [laughs]
S. HEISEL: Right, yeah, it doesn't have to be, um--
you know, it's,
it's really empowering. It's also
really confusing at times, like, then you're, like, staring at you know-- we do-- we play with
avatars a lot.
With
starting with
just a thing, a bottle, a human shape, or something and going, "Okay. Let's just
start throwing stuff on it. And what do we want?"
J. WILLIAMS: It's like a whole new world of me to measure.
[laughs]
Yes.
AUDIENCE MEMBER: One more question. So,
do other designers
out there, does they inspire you to make these 3D designs? Or just, like, you just look at what technology is
coming for like the iPhones and Samsung's. All them stuff in it. Do you use that as inspiration?
S. HEISEL: Um, I think each of our projects where we're working with another designer
have been really rewarding because,
as opposed to working with a technology company,
designers come with all these ideas and, you know, we spend a lot of time going,
"That's not gonna work. Let's dial it back and let's try something else, or what about the..."
But they come with a lot of creativity and a lot of ideas.
And it's always challenging and exciting.
J. WILLIAMS: Do they often come-- so I had a
graduate group that came to me on a project they were working on and, and they were
solving the idea of temperature in a corporate space and saying, "Instead of solving it by
air-conditioner heat, let's solve it on an individual basis."
Is that sort of what like a tech company would come in and ask you?
S. HEISEL: Yeah.
J. WILLIAMS: Yeah.
S. HEISEL: Yeah, we actually worked on a project that was like that.
J. WILLIAMS: Oh you did!
S. HEISEL: Yeah, um,
where they were looking at that for warehouses and
warehouse workers.
J. WILLIAMS: And then were they, are they looking at it--
I mean, you're obviously a designer
so clearly your thought is "How do I make something that would look well that people would want to wear--"
S. HEISEL: Right.
J. WILLIAMS: And they're probably thinking
not only cost but, "How much am I gonna save--"
S. HEISEL: They're just thinking energy costs.
That's all they cared about which is energy costs.
Cause, like, we don't have to heat this, like, huge space.
J. WILLIAMS: That's gotta be fascinating because it's so unusual for a des--
a fashion designer of any type to be talking about like
how do we save money on the AC?
S. HEISEL: Yeah.
J. WILLIAMS: [laughs]
S. HEISEL: But designers come with a vision a lot.
I mean, you know, some of them-- we did something recently where,
uh, a designer came to us and they had
really, you know, she had, she had like a thing made out of pipe cleaners
that was, and it's this triangle thing and it's-- she's got a whole
amazing story about it and what this shape means and
how it works in with all the rest of his stuff in her designs
and--
but she doesn't have a visual on it that's you know, she has a sketch
that's a hand sketch, you know. And then how do you turn that into an actual product?
And how do you make that into something that can be produced and sold?
J. WILLIAMS: Fascinating. Other questions.
Yeah, right. Perfect.
Push it up. Yeah.
Should be on.
AUDIENCE MEMBER: Hello? Oh, okay. Hi. Have you made any knit clothing with, um,
3D printing?
And also, if so, have you-- can you just make like a knit t-shirt? And how long would that take?
S. HEISEL: Um, I
don't, I don't work, you know, there is 3D knitting, um,
and-- which is primarily-- there's a Shima Seiki
full-- wholegarment knit machine, which is kind of amazing.
It's a really interesting because what they've done is that it's
pretty much the same as a standard mach-- knitting machine except that they have created
an algorithm that figures out that the farthest away points
on the garment are from, you know, X to Y.
And so instead of knitting
in the, you know, the different pieces and then so-- knitting-- sewing them together,
it's knitting--
J. WILLIAMS: The shape.
S. HEISEL: The whole shape in.
But it's doing it-- it's knitting at weird
sort of angles rather than
knitting
in rows as we think of them.
And all that is is an algorithm, which is really interesting that they're using data that way
to figure out a new way to make things.
Um, knitting is a very, you know,
knitting-- there really isn't-- that's what's considered 3D knitting and
knitting is already a zero-waste
form of manufacturing pretty much. So it doesn't make any sense with 3D printing.
So we haven't done anything like that and you can 3D print a t-shirt but,
you know,
I guess I would ask why
because
you can already make one really inexpensively so
why make the same thing? Why not make something that you couldn't make other ways?
J. WILLIAMS: And I'm curious. So how long would just a typical t-shirt take to print?
S. HEISEL: It would depend on the printer. It would depend on--
[laughs]
J. WILLIAMS: If you're Adidas or Iris Van Herpen.
S. HEISEL: Yeah.
J. WILLIAMS: [laughs] Yes.
AUDIENCE MEMBER: Hello. Um, quick question. Has there been a response of, um,
consumers or models that have worn your 3D garments?
Like comfort wise or being able to walk in it...
squat or anything like...
S. HEISEL: On, on most of them they are really prototypes at this point. They're not you know--
um, of the stuff that we're doing it's not, it's not wearable.
I think for a real life, it doesn't, it's not there yet. I would...
The Adidas, the, the shoe that they have out, the carbon
Futurecraft 4D shoe,
is amazing and I would go look at that because that's probably the best example of
using 3D printing for a production at scale
item that could not exist otherwise.
You would have to make 50 different pieces and glue them together to get that sole
in-- with conventional manufacturing.
But that's again also back to the half-a-million dollar printer, not the desktop printer.
J. WILLIAMS: It's interesting because there's really kind of
two categories of technology that we're talking about. On the one hand, it's very 3D.
It's about how we're creating and then, on the other hand, it's, it's what we were talking about earlier
which is how are garments being made? How do we use data? Do the clothes actually read our bodies?
How much do you think that is a split in terms of the business that you do and, I mean clearly,
some of these things are being worn every day. I mean, that have compression in them and wicking and--
S. HEISEL: Um, I think it's all gonna come together and be the same at one point.
At this point-- you know, for designers it's probably always gonna be different things.
So are you working on how it's made or what it does or
what you want it to look like from a consumers point of view.
I don't, you know-- consumers don't care.
They care that they get this really cool thing and it fits and it's beautiful and it functions.
All the rest of it is our problem on making this stuff.
J. WILLIAMS: Do you think there's one particular garment or
category of garments that really could use an overhaul in terms of how it's made or thought about.
S. HEISEL: You know, healthcare is the adaptive apparel, is the low-hanging fruit on it because
that's where there's a problem that can be solved.
And that, so that's a lot of the first wave of stuff that's coming is
clothes that
function that way that help people.
If you can find a problem for all of us that technology can really solve,
you will, you know, be a billionaire. That would-- but there hasn't been, you know, that's sort of the, for a lot of--
that's, that's the far away goal is, but, as yet either
the technology isn't there to make
something that would be so amazing or it would be so expensive or it's a gadget and people don't want it.
J. WILLIAMS: Right, interesting.
Other questions?
Think we have time for at least one more. Yep.
So it has to be price conscious to a degree.
It can't be a gadget and it has to solve a function. And then they're a billionaire.
S. HEISEL: And it has to look--
J. WILLIAMS: And look good.
S.HEISEL: Really, it has to look really cool, you know.
The first thing is it has to look amazing and it has to be affordable.
It has to you know, it has to be something want, something people want,
something they can afford and something that is better than
anything that's out there today.
J. WILLIAMS: Alright.
AUDIENCE MEMBER: Hi. Do you have experience with 3D printed heels?
S. HEISEL: Yes.
There's a lot of them and
there's a lot you can do and they're very easy to prototype
and you need to have a metal
shank in-- little metal thing inside it as yet.
Because a plastic heel will break when you walk on it.
That is something where--
That's actually something where it's pretty easy to do on a desktop printer.
And to come up with a lot of really cool ones.
You know, is that something you're interested in doing?
AUDIENCE MEMBER: Yeah.
S. HEISEL: Talk to Michael Parker.
AUDIENCE MEMBER: Okay.
Who's here at FIT and tell him that, that I said that.
AUDIENCE MEMBER: Okay.
S. HEISEL: Yeah.
AUDIENCE MEMBER: Cool, thank you.
J. WILLIAMS: So we are, we're coming to an end here
but I, we do have a lot of designers in this class and
people who are also working in business and marketing and will
be sort of connected to this new wave.
Let's start with the designers first. What would you say is one thing that a
way to think about perhaps design differently
or something that should be integrated into how they're learning to make them successful?
S. HEISEL: Think about, think about the body in three dimensions. Think about three dimensional design.
When you're designing,
view things in 3D. Find a way to do that.
That's number-- and then think function.
Don't think, think function, think
outside the box of what are the givens right now.
J. WILLIAMS: And obviously you work with a lot of business people because of this space.
What would you say to those who are studying more business and marketing?
What are the opportunities or how should this be looked at?
S. HEISEL: Ooh, um, you know the,
the business, especially the marketing end in fashion, is way ahead of the
production and
manufacturing end.
Right now, I think with digital marketing there's so much,
you know, there's so much stuff coming out of that that's really innovative.
And how do you connect that to the actual clothing?
But again, it's the, it is that, you know, that we view our world in 3D.
We view it through our phone in three dimensions.
J. WILLIAMS: Thank you so much for coming today. It's been such a fun time
S. HEISEL: Thank you.
J. WILLIAMS: To talk to you and to really think about sort of
the idea that creativity can kind of explode if you think about it outside of the norm.
S. HEISEL: Yeah.
J. WILLIAMS: Yeah. Thank you so much, Sylvia.
S. HEISEL: Thanks.
[applause]
J. WILLIAMS: And I think you had a, an email or a contact
just in case they wanted to get more information.
S. HEISEL: Oh, that's another dress.
That's another vest.
That's more compostable stuff.
And that's my email. So, yeah.
J. WILLIAMS: Alright.
Thank you, and we'll see you guys next week in The Haft with Mark Drew, the photographer. All right. Thank you.
