[Garth Fowler] Welcome, my name is Garth Fowler
and I'm the associate executive muted of the
office of graduate and postgraduate Education
and Training. I am your host today for the
latest installment of staying on track. The
APA is webinar series for graduate students
postdoctoral Scholars and early career psychologists
to help you stay on track during this covid-19
epidemic. Today we're going to talk about
remote defenses. We're going to give suggestions
and advice on how to defend your thesis or
different dissertation safely from home. We're
going to start with some general advice. And
then we're going to hear from our panelists
during the webinar you can submit a question
using the questions box located the webinar
control panel and as times permit at the very
end, I'll select some of those questions for
our guests If you experience any issues with
audio or video I asked you first, Make sure
that you've shut down other applications that
might be running in the background make sure
that you're giving as much as you can to the
CPU here if the problems persist then just
simply exit the webinar and rejoining using
the invitation link that you received. So
let's get started and I'm going to start by
introducing our two guests today. So our first
guest that will be hearing from later is Dr.
Alvin Akbar. He's a recent doctoral recipient
from the University of North Texas, so thank
you so much for joining us. Dr. Akbar. [Dr.
Alvin Akbar] Thank you. [Garth] And our next
guest is a Hideko Sera. She is a Dean at the
University of Redlands. And I want to thank
you for joining us to thank you so much for
having me. No problem. I look forward to hearing
from both of you in just a little bit. So
let's Jump Right In and start talking about
what you need to do. And the first thing I
want to say is this is unusual times many
institutions and programs realize that that
and a lot of them have taken the time to update
their policies and procedures to really support
remote defenses. So my first piece of advice
is check out what is available at your institution
go to the Graduate, you know, the graduate
school or the dean of the graduate programs.
They are see what they have up there in terms
of recommendations. What kind of requirements
they have and really take more time to plan
ahead for the video conference. Then you think
you need I think that's my other piece of
advice and I think throughout I'll be telling
people really the secrets having a game plan
and sharing that game plan broadly. And so
that's right also, say be sure you understand
what options and what requirements are by
your school some of the websites that I visited.
They actually tell you which platform you're
supposed to use. They want things done in
a certain way. They may have purchased Zoom
or I've heard of things like blue jeans. And
so you need to make sure that you have that
at some of the places I've seen have also
said given that it's a remote defense or changes
that they've gotten rid of the public that
it's open to the public. It's just a committee
members only. So make sure you understand
all those options that are all those requirements
and options that are available to you by your
institution. And then once you do that, then
you can start making a game plan on what are
the things that you have control over. My
other piece of advice and I've seen this happening
at many institutions but really a committee
member or chair or one of the faculty members
should actually be the most meeting host or
organizer and there's a number of reasons
for this and one is because later on when
you're trying to handle some of those parts
of the defense where there's the committee
deliberations. Sometimes you just might be
easier just to have the candidate step out
and if he or she is the host That could end
the meeting for everyone. So by having the
chair be the meeting host you make sure that
that doesn't happen. And again some of the
institutions I've seen. This is a requirement.
Now most of these platforms do then have the
option that it you can add a host or a panelist
or whatever they call it or a co-host so then
you do have the ability then to hand off say
the opportunity to run the slides or be in
control so you can have what the chair be
the host and make Canada panelists or co-host
I really think that's one of your best recommendations
right with that in mind. The next thing I
think you want to do is you want to schedule
a test run you really want to take an opportunity
set up with the advisor or your chair or whoever
where you just go in for 15-20 minutes and
you practice all this handing off when you
have control when you don't have control making
sure that you have all the visuals slides
and everything up to speed up for a lot of
us these Technologies whether it's Zoom or
or GoToMeeting or gotowebinar. It's new for
us. And so just take the time to really be
familiar with it. And if you are like me,
I would actually as a candidate not only do
a practice run with my with my committee member
I'd get my friends to all log on and practice
with them as if it's the real true thing and
one of them pretend to be the your advisor
have some people be the other committee members
practice going through everything handling
it hand It off. I really think that's some
of the best the best advice is is this is
new. So take the time to really to really
practice as much as possible. One of the things
is that there's lots of different components
for your exam. And I think what you need to
do is really have a game plan. I've read that
there's a number of different ways that people
are handling things. And so I think really
the best thing to do is to figure out what's
your game plan. So again, how are you going
to handle the confidential committee deliberations
aspects some of these platforms have the ability
to do what they call breakout rooms or special
function rooms, you can definitely use that
that does in my opinion add an opportunity,
you know, add another layer of unfamiliarity.
So you want to make sure you practice with
that and that's an opportunity where like
the host so the committee chair and everyone
can go into a separate room for deliberations
and the candidate is kind of just sitting
in the room by themselves kind of like the
real scenario, but you could also do something
very low-tech which is just then when it's
all said and done have the candidate log off
from the meeting keep his or her cell phone
or email and you can invite them back in same
thing for how you went to invite and manage
guests or an audience section. Are they going
to come in? Are they going to be on video?
Are they going to be on audio just plan all
that out and just make decisions. I think
most people who are going to be adaptable.
They understand that this is a new scenario.
So I think once you make that plan my personal
advice is If you do have an open session,
I would let the guests come in. I would make
them be mute and have them type in their questions
through one of the question boxes. But again
think about what's going to work best for
you. If it's only a small number of people
who are coming in then you could have the
Public's be you could have them be this is
slides don't seem to be working. Sorry about
that. I've been moving through my slides.
There we are. I'll just back up a little bit
to show you what some of the slides were before
their eyes talking about making sure you have
a committee chair be the organizing host again.
These will be available as a PDF so you'll
be able to catch back up with those. So I
apologize for that. I think one of the most
important things you want to do when you plan
ahead is control your local internet, it seems
obvious, but I've read some of the on some
of the online blogs and stories. I read that
people didn't think about this. So, you know,
if you're living with roommates or you have
family and things like that just let them
know ask them not to binge Netflix or don't
be playing World of Warcraft. I think as a
committee member you kind of want to do the
same thing try and control how much the you
know, how much bandwidth you are using. Um,
you know, this these are new times many many
people are online right now. So you try and
went to control it as much as possible. And
you know, when your audience comes in if you
have an audience, I would just tell them the
same thing if they can make sure that they
are turning off any other applications that
are running in the background and things like
that. So, I think that's one of the most important
things you can do is really try and just be
explicit about telling people. Let's control
our bandwidth and let's think about these
things. The last thing I think you want to
do is you know, you've heard all about this
the people who are bombing zooming beings
and things like that. Just take the time to
make sure that you have that set up if you're
worried about it again I've seen on some of
the web pages and departments and institutions
that I've gone to they actually recommend
this they've set out it help pages to help
candidates understand how to if they're recommending
a certain platform here is how you bomb-proof
our application or resource if your department
or school isn't doing that I've seen For most
places that there's an FAQ page for almost
every one of these platforms is right now
on how to do that how to bomb-proof it. I
don't know. You know, I've seen people as
should I do passwords and should I lock it
my advice is that probably someone's dissertation.
Isn't that big of a draw that someone's really
going to want to bomb or you know kind of
jump into your dissertation defense, so I
don't think it's a huge issue if it makes
you uncomfortable. You just want to be sure
about it then. Then yes, go ahead and do that
and adds one more layer to the process. So
again, I want to make sure that you test if
you're using passwords on how to do all that
how to set it all up. I think the last piece
of advice that I can really give is you need
to have a plan B, you know, and I think you
also want to make it very clear with your
committee members or break your chair. At
what point do you move to that plan B, you
know, what's going to happen? Like for example,
I've seen questions say should we have a video
on I think it's okay. It makes sense to start
with video but video can be very bandwidth
heavy. And so you might want to say hey if
things seem really Lower things are really
bad. We're going to move and turn video off
for everyone. We chose for today's presentation
to not use video because of the bandwidth
issues and we had so many people coming to
sign up that I didn't want that to be an issue.
So we made the decision ahead of time, but
we could have started with the video and maybe
moved away from it. I also recommend that
your plan B try and maybe have it be the low-tech
solution. Like if things really really fall
apart and you and your chair or your committee
have decided here. Where we decide? Hey, we're
moving to plan B send Advance copies of the
slides to everyone and a lot of these platforms
have teleconference options. And so you could
get people off the computer audio and just
have them move on to using your phone or things
like that. And again, I think the best thing
to do is to is to think about it and communicate
it ahead of time, but I would really have
a plan B and I my recommendation but we'll
get to hear from our other panelists that
I think a low-tech solution. Is probably going
to be your best plan B option. On the day
of so it's go time. I think one of the most
important things to communicate is that, you
know be a little bit over expressive and four
votes, you know, don't just wait for people
to not or things like that. Take the time
to say hey, this is a new platform. So you
want verbal responses, even if you're using
video and please keep in mind and I think
this is really important especially if you
have a large number of people are using video
and you have a small set up these these peoples
pictures get tiny and it's nonverbal communication
can get minimalized a lot. So I think it's
okay to be a little over expressive. I wouldn't
overdo it. But you know don't assume what
you do in person is going to suffice when
you're on video or you're doing one-on-one
a lot of these platforms allow the ability
for you to do things like thumbs up or raise
your hands and stuff like that whether or
not you use that I think that's a decision
you want to have before with your your committee
or your advisor, but then you could just tell
everyone hey, it's going to be okay, you know,
we think it's great if something's If you
think something's good give the thumbs up
or things like that. I goes without saying
but I just want to reinforce it. You should
dress up it is I think that's important. I
do that for almost all my webinars and but
this is your introduction to the professional
world. And I think you should treat it that
way. I also think it helps you get in the
right mind and mode about doing this and yes,
I would say you want to wear pants. I did,
you know read online about some people that
said, oh my gosh, they had, you know had to
stand. Up to adjust the lighting in the back
of the room or something like that. And so,
you know, you want to make sure that you look
good for the entire scenario. I think the
biggest important thing you want to do is
add 15 or 20 minutes to the entire process.
So if you usually schedule an hour and a half
for your defense when it's in person add an
extra 15 or 20 minutes and I think what you're
going to do in those beginning times is you
really want to make sure that all the technology
that you're using is working for everyone.
All committee members are able to dial in
and hear all the audio is working. All the
video is working in things like that. And
I think you want to make sure that as I mentioned
before The idea is to really have a game plan
make a lot of these decisions ahead of time.
And that's when you get to share them with
everyone who's there? So you could explain
how this is going to be different that you're
going to use breakout rooms for the deliberations
or that you're going to just have people drop
off at the appropriate time. That's what you
want to do in the beginning share that with
everyone. So everyone's on the same page explains
them. What's the same? What's different? I
would say you also want to check your technology.
If you need to update a program do it the
day before but if you're like me the last
thing I want to do is have a new version of
PowerPoint or whatever. I'm using for my slides
or my presentation on the day of so I would
go in and make sure I turn off any auto updates.
We all see those experiences and they might
not happen very often. But this is one time
you really don't want it to happen. Check
all your technology. I would go out and put
new batteries in your mouth. Make sure your
headphones if you're using them or really
charged. Headphones if you have them work
really well for audio with your so I do recommend
that but you don't have to a lot of people
just call in with there's their phone audio
so that works off well, and again, I can't
overstress the idea that you make sure that
you have everything else turned off that you
don't need. You don't want to be getting pop-ups
or you don't want other applications that
are going to be draining the CPU. So take
the time to just do all those things ahead
of time. I think one of the most important
things to really think about is the setup
and so you want to make sure that you take
the time to set this space and so I stole
this from how to pull off a professional video
call from home from The Wire Cutter. It's
a little prescient. It was published in 2018,
but I was reading through the advice and I
think it was really really great. So, you
know a lot of us are working from home and
makeshift spaces, but I think for your defense
make it a very specific. Fix space so use
the living room or use your dining room get
at an actual desk put your camera at base
level. So that means if your cameras built
into your laptop or into your computer put
some books under it if you're using video
so that you aren't looking at the bottom of
your chin, you're looking straight on at the
person so really take the time to test those
things out in video setup lighting should
come from behind your computer or the camera
is should try and be Controlled so maybe having
a light I wouldn't rely upon like a window
to do that because it could be really bright
or you could get shadows and things like that.
So think about what your lighting Source could
be. It could be coming from the side, but
just make sure it's not coming from behind
you if you have like a big bright light behind
you that really will put you in a dark space.
If you're relying on video, of course, if
you're not using video, then you don't have
to worry about all these things. But if you
if you do want to have a video component then
I think you want to make sure you have the
space set up right, make sure you're sitting
against a plain wall a don't do corners and
really make sure there's not a window. There's
a couple places and we have some resources
that if you just Google where people actually
like close the blinds and they can show still
how bright it is on a sunny day and how it
overwhelms your camera. So I really would
I really wouldn't do that. You're going to
be using some platform, you know, so whichever
one you have whether it's Zoom, GoToMeeting
they sometimes allow you to control Troll
your background. And so I've seen lots of
questions of should I what should I do? I
think if the blur out option is there and
you want to try it at my opinion. They are
sometimes not so great. But it does make sure
there's no distractions in the background.
So I would test that out first make sure it
looks good. If not, then I make sure that
the video the thing behind you is just a nice
simple space a plain wall. Maybe some books,
you know, if there's a bookcase in the background
try not. I have it be too distracting but
I think most people are going to understand
and really really really focus on you. There
is some other great advice in this how to
pull off a professional video call from home
in The Wire cutter again, there's the link
and it will be in our slide. So I really think
you take the time to go ahead and do that.
And before I turn it over to questions and
hear from our panelists really, I love XKCD,
so I thought this would be kind of a funny
video joke, but really I think the the best
thing here is have a game plan and plan ahead.
There's been lots of different advice on whether
you should use PowerPoints or not out there.
I think you want to decide what works best
for you and communicate that clearly with
everyone. So there's no surprises for everyone.
I think that's really going to be the best
way to have a defenses is really making sure
that you've communicated what's going to be
different about this. What's going to be the
same about this how you're going to handle
all these pieces if you That out and communicate
it well ahead of time. I think you're going
to have the best process as as possible. And
I think the other thing before I turn over
is that this is worked and we have someone
successful here who has done a remote defense
and and we're learning because it's new still
but most people are understanding and you
know, this will work your if you take the
time you're going to be okay, you're going
to be successful this this will work. So I'm
going to take the time now to turn over to
to our guests and the first person I'm going
to turn it over to is Alvin to talk a little
bit about you know, what was your experience
like you recently did this? So what worked
for you? What went well and what would you
have done differently? [Dr. Akibar] Yeah,
so in terms of my my defense I was the first
person in my department to my knowledge to
have to do a remote then I think the day after
I sent the email to my committee to schedule
the milestone the state of Texas declared
a state of emergency. So that was not the
best way to start things off. But I just checked
on my committee members honestly read a lot
of friends posts on just get an idea of what
folks were doing and seeing kind of what's
out there and what work. So my just depends
the same length with folks on Facebook and
Twitter just to kind of like get some of my
peers and academic Network and some you know,
close friends be able to actually watch them
walk the public portion and then the rest
of it was really just, you know, coming down
to the day of and getting my presentation
ready and all of that realizing that I had
a webcam issue. So my laptop webcam is not
working at all, which on a normal defense
they would not be that big of a deal. I was
just gone out and bought a new webcam. Most
stores were sold out of everything that I
needed including both external web cams and
the screwdriver that I needed to fix it. So
I had to scour the entire County to find a
hardware store that had the screwdriver I
needed so I can go into my laptop and fix
my webcam which apparently just completely
lose. So that was some tech support. I had
not anticipated having to do myself the day
before but it worked out but in terms of the
actual Milestone itself, you know, a lot of
it was just kind of figuring out what kinds
of stuff, meaning I can kind of work within
the place to make myself feel better about
being bombs potentially and just to kind of
keep the presentation and the meeting room
manageable. So I did things like new to my
participants on entry and by default had their
camera or had their cameras off didn't allow
them to like do any screen sharing and also
just kind of a waiting room so that way if
there were any folks might even recognize
trying to enter the room there would be that
a little bit of like additional buffer to
kind of help out with that. In this case.
I did serve as the primary host for my meeting
just because I'm between myself and my committee.
I was probably the most tech-savvy of them.
I think they all kind of learned on the Fly
kind of getting into it. So I ended up having
to kind of manage a lot of the room, but I
also did put my advisor to one of my more
tech-savvy committee members involved or in
charge of co-hosting so that way if anything
did go wrong we could sort that out. So we
had a quick sidebar before starting the defense
just to kind of go over some things also to
kind of like myself up and get they really
just gave some encouraging feedback and what
not just you know before getting into it and
then honestly, it was nice to kind of before
even starting the defense just look over really
quickly at some of the folks who my friends
and with colleagues who were attending remotely
and just kind of see all of them for a moment
and then immediately narrow my camera window
so I can only see my committee members because
otherwise I would get very distracted and
so it was definitely strange doing my whole
defense in my living room. Lots of small minor
things became a bit more major since there
were no alternative to getting them done that
I can think of at the moment but it all worked
out pretty well. So the after getting through
the public portion of my defense, I asked
all the non Committee Member attendees to
leave the room and then gain about a minute
before making sure that anyone who welcomes
already out what could be booted off had the
question answer session with my committee
and Since I couldn't figure out the breakout
room feature at that point. I just I was using
Bluetooth headphones with my laptop and I
just took them off and then added them to
then told my committee to wave at me from
the camera. Once you're ready to hear from
me again, so it's definitely more of a low-tech
solution for that, but it worked. [Garth]
Perfect. I guess we're getting some comments.
That sound is bad again. If you're having
sound that's bad on your end. Make sure that
you turned off as many applications as possible.
It might be helpful. Just you know, try and
speak a little slower with our guests. So
maybe that's something we can do to but if
you seeing a lot of stuff about sound so make
sure that you have as many applications on
your end as possible. So, I mean, there's
a lot of questions that I would like to follow
up on but I think we'll get to that. Later
so thank you very much. I think what I'll
do now is ask Hideko to give us a little advice
or to comment on anything that you know, I've
shared already as a dean and a faculty member
and her perspective. [Sera Hideko] Absolutely.
So before this before I get into some of the
things that I would like to point out, I just
want to share that I've been in a higher education
for 22 years. I saw how 911 impacted the whole
higher education system back then and what
we are going through as growth was talking
about. I have never seen anything like it.
So I just want to reiterate the the the importance
of how we need to be mindful about the this
unusual and very extraordinary circumstance
that we are all in so with that I would like
to provide for things for specific things
that I would like to cover the first thing,
Alvin very articulated this very very clearly,
but this is where he and I I think overlap
and the first thing is that I don't think
our University is the only University that
where the faculty struggled greatly when we
have to switch over to the technological enhanced
modules. So what we are looking at in terms
of the the situation this is a complete role
reversal that is happening in terms of the
roles of the experts and novice. So this is
a situation where the Faculty members actually
other ones who need to oftentimes need to
be in the place of receiving guidance in terms
of a technological savviness. So one of the
advice that I could give here. Is that as
a faculty members as well as well as the faculty
administrators we have to be humble about
this roll reverse that none of us probably
is going to enjoy too much about so that's
the first thing the second thing that I would
like to cover is that back in 2007 [inaudible]
came up with the comprehensive study on grit
and how is that really a focus of conversation
here? Is that out of the eight major traits
also that makeup grit there are two components
that are very very critical and one is the
consistency of Interest or passion. And the
other one is the perseverance of effort. So
I would ask the faculty members. Or faculty
administrators who are on this webinar to
think about how this new element of having
grit is actually a new or additional quality
or added component to this 2020 cohort as
they have gone through their preparation for
their defense. This is a new added quality
that they all have to go through to enhance
so I think faculty need to acknowledge that
I need to honor that piece the third piece
in and grit your talked about this a little
bit in and also Alvin the literature about
the reason Zoom bombers that we have seen
some of the most prominent cases have been
very racially motivated or the Those would
be specifically attacking other marginalized
populations and from the the beginning of
the pandemic. I personally have very much
believed and held this notion that what was
broken is now simply magnified. So you see
this internationally nationally locally state
wise even probably at your own institution.
So when The misfortune of Bombing or the zoom
bombing or some kind of hacking happens and
if there are racially or otherwise diversity
specific motivations that are happening and
if there are things that are done to our candidates
we need to make sure the fact that we need
to make sure that they are easy actually continued
dialogue about that after the defense so we
cannot pretend as if nothing ever happened
or it was really an unfortunate and then moving
on another piece about the diversity is that
I think faculty and administrators need to
be mindful about the diversity that rests
within the digital iniquity. So not every
student has access to the the best of the
best bandwidth or any kind of devices or some
of our students simply don't have a safe space
space to be able to do this defense in the
best way that they wish they could and that
needs to be acknowledged. And then the last
piece that I would offer which is the fourth
piece is that I think faculty and administrators
have the responsibility to plan Mindful and
also respectful celebration and we have to
be mindful of the fact that this is a cohort
that You know them if not, all of them actually
have their commencement canceled. So, you
know, there is a very important ritual part
to this defense kind of a practice. So there
has to be a way a special way to acknowledge
what they have done and what they have been
able to do. So my hats are completely off
to those students who have defended just as
Alvin did and those people who are planning
to do so very soon you have already beaten
the odds in my view. So that needs to be acknowledged
if there has to be a specialized special newsletter
or announcement university-wide communication
that needs to go out to honor those students
and their work that is something I think the
institution has to do. [Garth] Excellent.
I want to thank both of you for for your advice
and your comments. I think they're they're
really very very helpful. We received a lot
of questions in the registration and we're
also getting a lot here. So I think I'm just
going to go through and and what kind of just
have a dialogue share some of our thoughts
and experiences with these questions. I think
one of the first ones that I've seen is this
idea about who should actually be the host.
Or managing and and like I said before, I
think I think a really good thing is to really
assign that to a faculty member but Alvin
you talked about how it sounded like you were
the one who kind of was managing like you
fielded questions. You muted people on and
off share a little bit about that your experience,
but you know, how did that go for you? Was
it overwhelming? Do you wish in hindsight
that someone else had done that or was it
manageable for you? [Dr. Akibar] I think on
my end it was pretty manageable in large part
because my audience was not very very large.
I think at at max I had 15 audience members
and all of them were people that I knew closely.
So it wasn't necessarily an issue of you know,
people getting out of hand. So I'll say that
was very manageable. But if you have maybe,
you know a larger audience if you want an
inviting is going to have more people there.
It may be good to have, you know, both closer
committee members and your advisor as well
as maybe a couple of trusted friends or colleagues
helping to kind of keep track. Tabs of what's
going on. So that way it's not all on you
while you were also trying to feel the presentation
because I definitely noted that there were
some times that you know, I had to kind of
stay in the zone for the presentation and
break, you know having to break my train of
thought to take care of something. We related
to the meeting room. Definitely kind of took
me out of it for a moment and I had to kind
of catch myself back up. [Garth] Yeah, I think
that's really great. Great advice. I do think
kind of spreading the responsibility of managing
the technology. It is a it is an overwhelming
experience for candidates. I mean for faculty
members who are on here remember what it was
like for you to do this and as I think Hideko
had mentioned before this is unusual time.
So I think if it's possible for someone else
to kind of take control of at least, you know
for vetting questions or things like That
but I also like the points that you made that
for some faculty that candidates might be
the more skilled or the more competent members
with this technology. So it's a balance and
I think one of the the answers for is, you
know, schedule practice session ahead of time
with with your committee members it and see
what works best, but it sounds like it was
manageable for you. But yeah, it would have
been nice to have to have passed that off
it when you could. Hideko any comments about
about like the role of who should be host
or anything that you would like to add that
we didn't mention already about this. [Hideko]
No I agree with what's being said. I really
think that it has to be a mutual agreement.
So that students are not being put in a place
where they would have to defend and in fact
quote-unquote take care of the committee while
the Is actually judging on their on their
defense. I mean, that's it that that is too
many hats to wear. So as long as I think there
is a clear understanding of each person's
role and responsibility. I think that is better.
[Garth] Excellent. I see people really asking
questions about like Zoom or gotowebinar and
and my opinion is I think it really depends
on what you're trying to accomplish Zoom I
think is better if you have an audience participation
and in your opening it up to a lot of people
whereas gotowebinar really is this format
where you know, it's voices over slides Alvin.
What did you use? [Dr. Akibar] I'm so I utilized
Zoom. It's what one of the software packages
our university has and kind of has tech support
set up for but also because I had just over
the last couple of years have more and more
practice using it for either interviews or
even I think within the week. We are the days
leading up to my defense using it to have
a watch party with friends for one of our
favorite shows and that honestly gave me some
good practice with learning how to deal with
the screen sharing and like managing control
for that. So I will say practice is important,
but you can also make it fun. [Garth] Yeah.
Yeah, I think I think again what platform
you use I would I would first go back to your
institution and see if they have recommendations
As you move as you noted some of them have
purchased access and sometimes with purchase
access comes different level of support and
and different functions that you want to look
into. So taking the time to go ahead with
that and see which ones that that your institution
is using. I'm like you I use I'm more familiar
with GoToMeeting. And so I would default to
that because that's what I'm most comfortable
with. So, I think it really depends on what
people are really really feeling is is the
best approach for what you want to do. I think
another another question that we've heard
about is the is the open audience should you
invite people, you know, there's been some
stuff on the web that I've seen where people
are excited because usually parents or family
members don't get to attend these types of
things. But now that it's online there's an
opportunity. So I would love to hear both
your thoughts on on you know, what did that
how was that? What did you think about that
Alvin were you said yours was small did was
it just a you know, the regular group of people
who did attend your your committee are your
defense as part of the audience? [Dr. Akibar]
So my audience was largely friends a couple
of colleagues from my department and then
one family member so it wasn't anything too
crazy on top of my committee. So it wasn't
really too bad trying to figure all of that
out. But I definitely seen some friends who
had invited like their whole network so I
can add some range to that. [Garth] Hideko
any comments or thoughts about that on your
side? [Hideko] I think one thing that I would
offer is that I think whatever the decision
that the students would make in terms of how
many people will be joining. They should have
think about two things one. Is that for most
of us this happens only once in a lifetime.
So we need to recognize the magnitude and
the symbolism of oh important this is not
only for the students but also for for their
loved ones and the support system, but at
the same time on the same token, however,
I would say that in these unusual times students
also need to think about what would be best
for them to be able to best perform this very
demanding, taxing, monumental process. So
if it is Is to just to satisfy some people
who may be, you know eager to listen to their
their presentations and and and all of that
in a way. It's almost like a wedding what's
really important for you to be the one the
thing that should drive the decision making
and that not what other people want from you,
but this is your work. [Garth] Yeah, I think
personally I would you know, if I had if I
had to think about this, you know there weren't
my family members did attend my in-person
one, but if you think about an interesting
person event most of the audience members
sit very quietly throughout the presentation
and and there might be a just like in any
standard talk. There might be an open question
and answer session at the end before they're
asked to leave and you can replicate that
using using the platform where you know, they
can sit. And I think as Alvin mentioned before
the audience members were put on mute. Things
like that when I'm trying to communicate to
my committee members so I would opt not to
and that's my advice my thoughts on it. But
I think you have to really like you said think
about what's going to work best for you and
then figure out how to manage it whatever
the decision that you make. So I really really
appreciate that. One of the other things that
I've really been thinking about is Alvin you
had mentioned practice, but like how much
of This did you share like did you have a
plan with your chair or were these decisions
that you made on your own? You know my advice
I think is the more people understand the
plan the better, but I was wondering what
was your experience you were the first to
do it? What are people learning from you in
terms of like how better to communicate or
how much to have be a shared plan? [Dr. Akibar]
I think also in terms of managing the meeting
room for the presentation that was more on
my end. I was definitely taking the lead there
but I did communicate with my chair ahead
of time just to see kind of what her take
was on that and really just making sure that
we were both on the same page. I I really
can't speak to a lot of the there because
mine was more cut-and-dry pretty straightforward.
I didn't run into too many complications that
were systemic. Thankfully, I didn't have any
issues with a green bombing my only Tech issue
of the able to get resolved the day before
so a big part of it is really going to be
talking with your chairs about what you what
your response might be. If something does
happen it having a plan in place. So they
understand what can happen but also being
willing to figure out who's going to be responsible
for what for what? [Garth] Yeah, let's talk
a little bit about Plan B. I think I think
that's probably the most important thing and
what Are your guys thoughts on some Plan B
considerations? I put forth the idea and you
can challenge me but I put forth the idea
that a low-tech solution for Plan B is probably
the best because I think most things that
are going to go wrong are based upon this
new technology, but there are other options.
So, you know, what are your thoughts? What
was your plan B Alvin or Hideko? What what
are you thinking about or what would you recommend
to your faculty and your about their plan
B's for this [Hideko] I think I was jumping
I think one of the things that we keep on
coming back to in this conversation is to
be able to have the planning transparently.
So I think Plan B C D E F and and all of that
need to be talked at front when the plan B
plan A is actually being worked out between
the student and the committee members and
one of the things that I think Even during
this hour webner people are noticing is that
you know, sound quality and those things so
what what happens when those things basically
deter the quality of the presentation all
those things need to talk about so I agree
with you Garth. I would think that anything
after plan a that should basically rely on
something that is feasible. That is low Tech
that is workable for all of people who are
involved in the defense. [Garth] Alvin, what
about you? Did you have a plan b or did you
just kind of grit your teeth and enforce it
through? [Dr. Akibar] So my plan B was honestly
thankfully one that was not too difficult
to work with. So basically the idea would
have been that if the conference call went
down or anything like that has happened. I
would send a copy of the slides to my committee
and then kind of follow along with them. Let
them they would be able to read through and
get an idea of when to advance the slides
themselves and then kind of continued everything
over the phone, but thankfully we did not
have to come to that but I also seem kind
of in the weeks since my defense and what's
interviews and whatnot and have seen various
strategies. For how that work until I've seen
a lot of success with kind of giving people
the option to review the materials ahead of
time. If you're worried about connection issues
being ready to come, you know, do most communication
over the phone or kind of have that going
so that way you're not as Bound by let's say
you're dealing with internet restriction or
bandwidth restrictions having using the phone
functions on a lot of these meetings software's
really does work pretty well. So a lot of
the even even with the high tech Solutions
the low Tech options, Ian can be a good fallback
in case things start to act up. [Garth] Yeah,
I think I like that idea that you know the
idea of keeping it low tech and and I see
see people asking like should I still use
PowerPoint and and I would I would say yeah,
whatever your platform for doing your presentation
try and make that as common as possible. I
did mention earlier when we were saying, you
know in video if you know nonverbal communication
isn't as expressive. I would make the same
consideration also that possibly slides won't
look as good. So when you're doing it in person,
you can blow a slide up to you know, the size
of that screen that's behind you. But when
you're doing in a video, it's only going to
be as big as whatever people are looking at.
Did you did you have any issues with that
where there are issues Alvin when you did
your defense that like people couldn't read
certain parts of the or you had to really
think about how you're going to present some
data or anything like that. [Dr. Akibar] So
for the most part I didn't have too many issues
with that in part because when I looked at
this, you know, I use PowerPoint for mine
because it's what I'm most familiar with and
I was not going to choose my defense to be
the time to reinvent the wheel but I really
did try to make it more large font text easier
to read as well. As you know, having some
imagery to kind of illustrate some of my points
to make it easier to follow along not get,
you know, the wall of text effect that tends
to happen with someone somehow. I'm like my
first my proposal meeting but it was really
just a matter of trying to make sure that
everything was easily readable and available
as well as just you know, kind of looking
at my own screen and seeing like okay, I can
see this on my laptop screen looking at this
all in full screen. What are they going to
be able to see from your little from their
preview window? [Garth] So we're kind of rolling
up to the end of the hour. I think we went
through a lot of the questions the advice
that we had had given. I see a lot of people
are asking still about did you people and
again I think in the beginning of the slide,
we really talked about that. That's a decision.
I think you really want to think about with
your committee having you did talk about how
you you didn't you people when they first
came in and things like that. So any last
thoughts or anything you want to reinforce
before we kind of close up here at the end
of the hour? [Dr. Akibar] So I'll leave the
fact that it definitely was strange. It's
not how I envisioned things happening. I'm
the first wtudent in my lab to matriculate
and so it was a little isolating not to be
able to share that I know my advisor was just
as excited as I was about this and we were
definitely ready to go all out with the celebration
but then a pandemic hit so it's okay. If you're
feeling a little you know, it's okay to feel
a little bit strange about how everything
is going to have to adjust. Patient to figure
out well what the celebration look like now
that we can't really do what we typically
would so I know a lot of my friends have been
interesting to have wanted to do things like
Zoom Hangouts and whatnot after my defense
Zoom hang out with the last thing I wanted
to do, so I caught up with a couple family
members on the phone and then had a nice night
in and watch some things and just kind of
take a step back from what the new normal
looks like for now because it's it's very
strange. It's it can be distressing but it's
still something worth celebrating [Garth]
Hideko any closing thoughts [Hideko] I think
I would concur with what a living is talking
about. But I think the the number one importance
I think for faculty and administrators is
not to make any assumptions. I think oftentimes
we we become idiosyncratic when the crisis
happens we go back to the world or the ways
and we look at the world as a backup. It's
something that we are familiar with and we
shouldn't be making any assumptions about
the the predicaments that our students are
in what led them to to this point where they
are now scheduling to do the defense what
what basically took them to get here. We shouldn't
be making any assumptions and making a proper
celebrations based off of that and one of
those assumptions that we shouldn't be making
again. I would like to remind all of us about
at the digital iniquity or any kind of a inequities.
What is that may happen in one's life that
sometimes some of our students being on campus
actually gave them more access to resources
and now they are forced to be going back home
or wherever they ended up going to they may
have less resources. So we shouldn't be making
any assumptions that whatever the faculty
are able to This is the exact type of resource
or the quality of resource that our students
are able to access. [Garth] Excellent. I want
to say, you know, we're running out of time.
I wanted to really end this about 10 minutes
before, you know, kind of staying on the academic
clock. But before I do that, I want to really
take the time to thank both our guests for
being here today. I truly and I think our
audience has even said so in the comments
a treat appreciate your participation your
advice and your taking the time, so I just
want to tell both of you. Thank you very much.
[Hideko] Thank you. [Dr. Akibar] Thank you
Garth. [Garth] So this is one of many webinars
that we have been planning at APA in response
to the covid-19 epidemic. It's part of what
we're calling the staying on track process
and you can visit our staying on track landing
page to see what other webinars are scheduled
and you can register for those webinars. So
the the page is right there so you can see
it. We are also posting record. Signs of previous
webinars so we will eventually have the recording
for this one available and we will also make
the slides available as a PDF. So you'll be
able to come back later and visit the page
and get any of the resources information and
kind of revisit what we talked about today.
So, please bookmark the page come back on
a regular interval and see what else we're
able to produce for you at the conclusion
of this webinar. We're going to have a short
survey for you to take and I'm really going
to encourage you to take the time to complete
that survey. It is what we use to develop
new webinars We Gather that information to
try and improve what we've already done are,
you know to improve upon what we've done for
the future? So I really really encourage you
if you take the opportunity to do that and
up until then that's it for today. Please
stay safe, and if you're getting ready to
plan your defense, I wish you the best of
luck. Thank you all and have a good day.
