-Welcome to the show.
Thanks for having me.
I'm so glad
to finally have you here,
-and most importantly...
-Yes.
...congratulations
on your Grammy nomination.
-Thank you. Thank you.
-That is... Wow.
-(applause and cheering)
-I feel really good about that.
-Yeah?
-I feel super good about that.
You... I-I know
people say things,
but you said about a year ago
when the album came out,
you're like, "Yo, I'm getting
nominated for the Grammy."
-And now it happened.
-Yes.
-Did you will that into
existence? -Um, I-I knew it.
Like, I honestly knew it. Um...
What-what... what was it
about this album
that made you feel like,
"Yo, this is a Grammy nod."?
Man, um,
we had the luxury of time is...
which is why
the album's entitled Daytona.
That's my favorite watch--
the Rolex Daytona.
-Right. -And, um, me and Kanye
had the luxury of time.
We really crafted it, we really
just put our all into it.
-But we took our time.
-A lot of people have referred
to you as your favorite rapper's
favorite rapper.
-I am.
-(laughter)
-I am.
-Yeah, you're-you're a lyricist.
-Yeah. -You-you create
in a really organic way.
And it feels like-like
hip-hop is meant to feel.
-You know what I'm saying?
-Yes.
What's also interesting--
you created an album
that is shorter than most
of the music we're used to now.
Like, these days,
people are making albums
that are, like, 20 tracks long
and is, like, an hour
and a half,
-and it doesn't end.
-Right.
And you came in,
and you were like, "No.
"I'm gonna make it punchy,
I'm gonna make it short,
and I'm gonna make it fire."
Was that a specific decision
that you made
to buck the trend,
or was-was...
were you just creating
what you created?
Definitely to buck the trend.
Um, you know, a lot of people
make long albums.
And you know, sometimes
they have a lot to say,
so they make long albums.
Or they make long albums
-so the streaming numbers,
you know, go higher... -Right.
...and it makes
their sales bigger.
And the music may be
a little cheap.
So, you know,
just so people knew
that we weren't playing
those type of games,
we made a shorter album--
seven songs,
straight to the point
of all killer, no filler.
-Oh.
-(applause and cheering)
The, uh...
the album has been met
with, I mean, just resounding
reviews from everyone.
-Yeah. -You know, everyone from,
you know, hip-hop...
Genuinely, it has.
Like, I mean...
I got the rap album of the year.
Yeah, a lot of people
are saying that.
-(applause and cheering) -A lot
of people are saying that.
And, uh, your fans love you.
I mean,
this-this was next level.
Last week, you lost your Cartier
bracelet in the crowd.
-Yes.
-Right?
And then... one of your fans
returned the bracelet to you.
-Yes. Such a great man.
-Is-is that a reflection
of how good your music is,
or how lame your fans are?
-Which one is it?
-(laughter)
I think he was
just an honest guy.
-I thought that was so amazing
-Right. But that's love, though.
-that he did that, yeah.
-That's love, though, right?
You don't expect that to happen.
-No. I...
-Like, 50, I remember when 50
was in, was it, like,
Angola or something?
Remember he went in...
he went in with his chain?
-Yeah. -And then, like,
♪ You were a gangsta ♪
♪ But you never... ♪
And then the chain was gone.
And that was it.
The chain never came back.
-Right, right, right.
-It was done.
-Right.
-Yeah, but you got it back.
Like, there's
a special connection
that you share with your fans.
Do you think that, as an artist,
you've managed to maintain
that sense of being underground
whilst being
commercially successful?
Definitely. Um, you know,
I say that, you know,
I go out and I perform
in front of 2,000 people, right?
And... to me, those are, like,
the coolest 2,000 people
in the world.
Like, they're, like,
they tell me what to wear,
they tell me what to buy,
they tell me what's fresh.
I learn everything
from those guys.
Um, now, I can go, you know,
during festival season
and we're doing 40,000,
50,000 people,
but there's something
about those 2,000
-Right.
-that are just, like,
really honed in and really...
I don't call them fans,
I call them family.
That's amazing. It sounds like
you're a fan of your fans.
-For sure. They teach me
everything. -I like that.
That's a different way
to see it.
Um, the album was powerful,
not just because of the lyrics,
-Yes.
-but also because of the music.
-Yes.
-But from the very beginning,
it was met with controversy,
because the album cover
was something that polarized
so many people.
On the album cover, you had
the picture of the bathroom
where Whitney Houston was found.
-Right. -And, I mean,
I remember when this came out
-people were...
-No. No.
That's not the bathroom
where she was found.
That was just her home bathroom.
-Right. Okay.
-Right.
And so this was
Whitney Houston's bathroom,
-Yes.
-and a lot of people were like,
"Why? Why that imagery?"
Um... I felt like, um...
you know, this image...
spoke to exactly
what's going on on the album.
It's organized chaos.
It's... it's luxury.
It's drugs.
It's, uh...
it's just chaos.
Do you feel like... do you
feel like you revel in that?
-Is that, like, a world...
-Yes.
You know what I find
interesting about you is,
you never strike me as somebody
who doesn't seem out of control,
and yet what you rap about
is everything that's happening
in the world that's
beyond your control.
Is that... is that conscious?
Is that who you are?
100%. I mean,
I make luxury street rap.
-And, um, you know...
-That's fascinating.
-"Luxury street rap."
-Yes.
We're gonna talk
about everything.
We're gonna talk about the good,
the bad, the ugly,
the binges in jail, too.
-Wow.
-Talk about everything.
You actually wrote a song
when Meek Mill was in prison,
and as "What would Meek do?"
Yeah, man, 'cause I wish
he was on that record.
What... what were you
feeling like?
Like, honestly, like,
you see somebody like Meek Mill
go to prison, and, you know,
a lot of the time people say
about hip-hop
or sports or whatever,
especially as a black man
in America, people go,
"I made it out." You know?
"This is a life I get to live
"so that I don't get trapped
in the life that was destined
for me in many ways."
When you saw Meek
in that situation,
was there a part of it
that touched you?
Where you were like,
that's, like, close to home?
Totally. 'Cause Meek is one of
my favorite rappers,
and he's, like, a rapper
that I've watched.
I've watched him on DVDs.
I've watched him just come up
as a kid.
He was actually popping
a wheelie
in one of my first videos.
-Like, when I first started.
-Right.
He was just, like, a kid on
a bike in the neighborhood,
and we was like, "Yeah, do that
wheelie." And he did it.
Right? So, um, so to watch him,
watch his rise,
um, see how great he is
an an emcee,
and then him going through,
you know,
-legal troubles for popping
a wheelie, actually, -Right.
it was terrible.
And then, you know,
now you see him now,
and, you know, he just came out
with his new album, it's hot.
And it's-it's through the roof,
everybody loves him,
but it's like, man, he had to go
through all of that
just to get back to this point.
It's amazing how it feels like
-the world that you've been in
as Pusha T, -Yeah.
you have been at the epicenter
of hip-hop music
-and entertainment news
over the past year. -Yes.
You know, we cannot speak
about Pusha T
without talking about
the Drake beef, you know?
-Yeah. Like,
as soon as you sat down,
the first thought I have
in my head is,
"Do I have a son that you want
to tell me about, Pusha?"
(laughter)
No, man.
I-I just wondered one thing,
and that was like,
do you ever feel like-like--
Do you feel like rap battles
are something that are still--
are they still relevant in
today's rap culture?
Or do you think that, like,
people have lost,
like, a sense of what they were
or what they're supposed to be?
'Cause some people go rap
battles were around when,
you know, when rap was, like,
about shooting people.
And now rap has changed
in its image,
and rap is now just--
Now it's like the battles
are more about the flow
and the lyrics.
And people go, "Oh, but Pusha,
you went into family.
That's over the edge."
But people go, "But there is no
edge in a rap battle."
Th-th-there is no edge
in rap battles.
Everybody has to stop that
narrative, it's terrible.
-Right. -They're, like,
ruining the game.
Um, you know, you know,
in a rap battle
it's-it's dog eat dog.
And you just go for it.
And, um, it's about, it's not
so much always about lyricism.
It's about just being scathing.
And-and getting a rise, getting
a rise out of your opponent.
-Right.
-Or making them hush.
You-you did feel like it went
to the next level, though,
-when you were at a concert
in Canada, -Yeah.
and then, like, one of Drake's
people or fans,
-jumped onto the stage.
-I don't know who that was.
-At that point, but at...
-I don't know who it was.
At that point,
do you think to yourself,
"All right, may rap beefs
are not for me"?
No. They're very much over me.
-Right? Is that...? -No. They're
very much over me. Totally.
When you look at this album,
though, when you look at a,
like-like a rap battle,
what part of a rap battle
informs how you make the music?
Like, 'cause it-it's different
disciplines, right?
But at the same time, like,
even that clip we watched,
-Yeah. -it feels like
you're battling.
It's like a flow that you're
going through.
There's no, there's no beat
that comes in yet.
There's no-- nothing is broken.
It's just you rhyming,
just, like,
going through those bars
one-one-one rhyme after another.
It feels like is that what
luxury street rap is?
I mean, that's,
that is just the criteria
-for my style of rhyme.
-Right.
It's-it's always gonna feel
combative.
It's always gonna feel...
You're always gonna feel
that angst.
-You're always gonna get
that message. -Right.
Um, not everybody's like that.
Why do you think people
connected with the album?
Why do you think it's nominated
for a Grammy?
Um, because this...
this is the purest rap album
the people have had
in a long, long time.
And, just to be honest, I mean,
this is quintessential samples
from Kanye West
and lyric-driven hip-hop
from Pusha T.
The best rapper, best producer.
That's the album of the year.
Period.
(cheering and applause)
Before I let you go...
before I let you go,
one of the headlines
you made this year is you said,
"The Make America
Great Again hat
is this generation's
Ku Klux Klan hood."
-But your friend...
-(cheering and applause)
-It's a powerful statement.
-Yeah.
But as you said, your friend
and collaborator, Kanye West,
your business partner,
he wears that hat with pride.
-It's...
-He doesn't anymore.
-He doesn't anymore?
-No.
-Let me ask you this honestly
as a friend. -He stopped.
-Because, I mean, we...
-He stopped, though.
-That's... He stopped.
-Right, right. No, no, no.
-Okay. -I want to talk to you
about this as a person.
-Okay. That's fine.
-Is, like...
Because we-we were talking
about this on the show.
Now you see families
where people argue about this.
You see friends.
We don't live in a world
-where everyone agrees
on the same thing. -Oh, man.
And I don't think
you can cut off friends
for not agreeing with you.
As somebody
who has your beliefs,
how do you even begin those
conversations with somebody
who you know connects with you
on so many other things?
Can you imagine
having those conversations
while he's trying to make
my album?
Like, he's, like,
he basically has,
you know, my life in his palm,
and I have to tell him
that I hate something?
-Right.
-So we're, like, you know...
I-It was, you know...
We always have
real conversations, though.
-Right, right, right.
-Always.
And, um, I think that's why
me and him connect so well,
-and I think that's why Daytona
 came out so well. -Right.
Because it's a give and take.
If I don't like something,
I say it,
-and he tries to correct it,
and so on and so forth. -Right.
And when you look
at Kanye West now,
you know, one of the things
we can't escape
is the fact that he is a genius
who is tormented
by his mental health issues.
And now we've gotten to
the point where we're realizing,
"Oh, maybe it's not
as much of a joke
as people liked it to be."
-Right. -And he's come out
and said, "Hey,
"I-I want to talk about this.
I want to get something done
with this."
In the hip-hop community,
it feels like mental health
is not something
anybody can speak about.
-Right. -Do you think
that's gonna change?
Um, I hope so.
I mean,
I-I've been pretty ignorant
to mental health, as well.
Um, just being honest.
Just growing up at my household,
you know, man,
I think my parents,
my grandparents,
my great-grandparents,
-they went through it all.
-Right.
So, you know, when you, uh...
You know, uh,
saying that somebody is crazy
was just a word,
you know, used loosely.
-Right. -And mental health
is something that nobody...
You know, in coming up,
when we were coming up,
nobody just looked towards that.
And, um, now in learning
about it, yeah, you can...
It's a real, real thing.
Well, I just want to say, man,
thank you for being on the show.
Thank you for making one of
my favorite albums of the year.
-Thank you. -Congratulations
on the Grammy nom.
-Thank you. Thank you.
-So good to have you, for real.
 Daytona is available now.
Pusha T, everybody.
