THE MIND AFFECTS THE BODY.
STRESS TRIGGERS SICKNESS,
SHORTENS LIFE.
TRANQUILITY PROMOTES
WELLNESS, LENGTHENS LIFE.
HOW WE THINK
CHANGES HOW WE FEEL.
PSYCHOSOMATIC MEDICINE
IS MODERN MEDICINE.
"PSYCHOSOMATIC ILLNESS" DOES
NOT MEAN "IMAGINARY ILLNESS,"
YET THE FIELD IS FLUSH WITH
CHARLATANS, CRACKPOTS, BUFFOONS
WHO CAN TAKE YOUR MONEY
AND HARM YOUR HEALTH.
WHAT WORKS AND WHAT DOESN'T?
WHAT'S SCIENCE, AND WHAT'S NOT?
THE MIND REALLY DOES AFFECT
THE BODY, BUT HOW?
HOW DOES IT WORK?
WHAT ARE THE MECHANISMS?
NEURO-CHEMICALS, HORMONES,
GENERATED BY THE BRAIN.
BUT SOME CLAIM SOMETHING MORE,
SOMETHING SPECIAL
ABOUT CONSCIOUSNESS.
HOW CAN THE MIND HEAL THE BODY?
I'M ROBERT LAWRENCE KUHN,
AND CLOSER TO TRUTH
IS MY JOURNEY TO FIND OUT.
ABOUT ALTERNATIVE MEDICINE,
I'M SOMETHING OF A SKEPTIC.
SO MANY CLAIMS, SO LITTLE PROOF.
FOR GOOD REASONS,
MODERN MEDICAL SCIENCE
CONSIDERS ONLY
THE PHYSICAL BODY AND BRAIN
IN EXPLAINING HOW MENTAL STATES
AFFECT SICKNESS AND WELLNESS.
THERE'S AN ALTERNATIVE VIEW:
CONSCIOUSNESS
IS DEEPLY FUNDAMENTAL,
AND IT DIRECTLY AFFECTS
OUR BODY.
I AM INVITED TO A SYMPOSIUM,
SAGES & SCIENTISTS,
FEATURING THOSE WHO PROPOUND
THE PRIMACY OF CONSCIOUSNESS.
IT'S A COLORFUL GROUP,
BELIEVERS ALL,
INCLUDING SERIOUS SCIENTISTS.
"GIVE THEM A CHANCE,"
I THINK TO MYSELF.
"MAYBE I'LL LEARN SOMETHING."
I BEGIN WITH THE FOUNDER AND
GUIDING LIGHT OF THE SYMPOSIUM,
MY HOST, THE INDIAN-AMERICAN
HOLISTIC PHYSICIAN
DEEPAK CHOPRA.
DEEPAK, IT'S COMMON KNOWLEDGE
IN MEDICINE
THAT THE MIND HAS
A VERY STRONG INTERACTION
WITH THE IMMUNE SYSTEM,
WITH OUR SENSE OF WELL-BEING,
AND OVER TIME THIS HAS BECOME
CORE WESTERN MEDICINE.
HOW DO YOU REFLECT ON--
THIS IS SOMETHING
THAT YOU'VE WORKED ON--
HOW THE MIND CAN ACTUALLY HEAL
AND HELP THE BODY?
DEEPAK CHOPRA:
FIRST OF ALL, ROBERT,
IN THE DEEPER DOMAINS
OF CONSCIOUSNESS,
MIND AND BODY
ARE THE SAME THING.
MIND IS THE SUBJECTIVE
EXPERIENCE OF CONSCIOUSNESS,
AND THE BODY'S
THE OBJECTIVE EXPERIENCE
OF CONSCIOUSNESS.
AND I EXPERIENCE THEM BOTH
IN CONSCIOUSNESS.
IN THE WESTERN SCIENTIFIC
SYSTEMS OF THOUGHT,
THERE'S BEEN A SEPARATION
BETWEEN THE MIND AND THE BODY:
THE CLASSIC CARTESIAN DUALISM.
HOWEVER, IF YOU TALK
TO SCIENTISTS THESE DAYS,
THEY DON'T BELIEVE IN
THE CLASSIC CARTESIAN DUALISM.
SO THE MATERIALISTS SAID
THERE'S ONLY MATTER.
AND THE OTHER PEOPLE SAY
THERE'S ONLY MIND.
WELL, I'M SAYING
THERE'S NEITHER, OKAY?
OKAY. NOW IF YOU LOOK
AT THE WORD "HEALING,"
IT'S A VERY INTERESTING WORD
ETYMOLOGICALLY.
HEALING, HEALTH, WHOLENESS.
SO IN MY VIEW, IT'S HOW
YOU DEFINE HEALING.
HEALING IS THE RETURN
OF THE MEMORY OF WHOLENESS.
IT'S A STATE
OF PRIMORDIAL BEING.
IN THAT STATE
OF PRIMORDIAL BEING,
THERE'S SELF-REPAIR,
SELF-ORGANIZATION,
SELF-EVOLUTION--
ALL THE ATTRIBUTES
OF CONSCIOUSNESS.
WE'VE KNOWN FOR 30 YEARS
THAT WHEN PEOPLE ARE STRESSED
THEY HAVE HIGH CORTISOL LEVELS,
THEY HAVE HIGH ADRENALINE,
AND THEIR PLATELETS GET STICKY,
AND THEY GIVE YOU A HEART ATTACK
BECAUSE THEY CLOG.
SO YOU LOOK AT IT FROM
A CONSCIOUSNESS PERSPECTIVE,
HEALING IS THE MOST FUNDAMENTAL
EXPERIENCE.
UNLESS YOU'RE BORN
WITH A CONGENITAL DEFECT
OR SOMETHING,
YOU'RE ALREADY HEALED.
YOU'RE WHOLE.
YOU HAVE NOT STARTED
THE MISTAKE OF THE INTELLECT
THAT SEPARATES YOUR MIND
FROM THE BODY.
IT'S A STATE OF HOMEOSTASIS.
HOMEOSTASIS IS A STATE
OF DYNAMIC NON-CHANGE
IN THE MIDST OF CHANGE.
AND IT'S A FUNDAMENTAL STATE.
SO YES, IT'S NOT THAT THE MIND
HEALS THE BODY.
WHEN YOU GET OUT OF THE WAY
OF BOTH THE MIND AND THE BODY,
THEY BOTH HEAL THEMSELVES.
ROBERT: SO HOW DOES THAT HAPPEN?
DEEPAK: IF YOU WANT TO LOOK
AT IT IN A VERY SIMPLE LEVEL,
WHEN YOUR MIND IS AGITATED,
YOUR BODY'S AGITATED.
BECAUSE THEY'RE BOTH
THE SAME THING.
OKAY, MENTAL ACTIVITY
IS TURBULENT;
YOUR BODY GETS TURBULENT.
YOUR MENTAL ACTIVITY
IS INFLAMED--
HOSTILITY, ANGER, GUILT, SHAME--
YOUR BODY GETS INFLAMED.
OKAY, THAT'S ON ONE LEVEL.
YOUR MENTAL ACTIVITY
IS ONE OF PEACE,
THEN THE BODY GETS QUIETENED
BECAUSE THE MIND IS QUIETENED.
OKAY, AND THEN THE SELF-REPAIR
KIND OF MECHANISMS COME IN.
LOVE--NOT LOVE
AS A MERE EMOTION,
BUT LOVE AS
THE FUNDAMENTAL TRUTH
THAT THERE'S NO SEPARATION.
WHEN YOU EXPERIENCE THAT,
THEN AGAIN, SELF-REPAIR
MECHANISMS KICK IN.
I THINK WE HAVE TO REDEFINE
WHAT HEALING MEANS.
WE HAVE TO REDEFINE
WHAT HEALTH MEANS.
BECAUSE, YOU KNOW, YOU CAN BE
PHYSICALLY HEALED
AND STILL HAVE THE FEAR OF DEATH
AND LIVE MISERABLY.
RIGHT?
IN FEAR, AGITATION.
IS THAT HEALING?
I DON'T THINK SO.
YOU CAN BE PHYSICALLY HAVING
A TERMINAL ILLNESS
AND COME TO PEACE
WITH YOUR MORTALITY
BECAUSE YOU KNOW THERE'S
AN ASPECT OF EXISTENCE
THAT IS IMMORTAL.
SCIENCE IS NEVER GOING
TO GO AWAY.
NOR IS THE YEARNING FOR MEANING,
WHICH IS A VERY SPIRITUAL THING.
NEITHER ARE GOING TO GO AWAY.
AND SO, MIGHT AS WELL BRING THEM
TOGETHER TO HEAL THE WORLD.
ROBERT: DEEPAK'S VIEW
IS THAT CONSCIOUSNESS
IS REALITY, THE ONLY REALITY,
AND THAT EVERYTHING ELSE,
THE ENTIRE PHYSICAL WORLD,
COMES FROM CONSCIOUSNESS.
CONSCIOUSNESS AS REALITY
HAS A RICH TRADITION
IN EASTERN RELIGION
AND PHILOSOPHY
AND IN THE IDEALISM SCHOOL
OF WESTERN PHILOSOPHY.
I'M ATTRACTED BY CONSCIOUSNESS
AS SPECIAL.
AND I HAPPEN TO ENJOY
SPARRING WITH DEEPAK.
BUT I CANNOT DISMISS
THE INDEPENDENT REALITY
OF THE PHYSICAL.
SO IF THE MIND AFFECTS THE BODY
IN SOME PROFOUND WAY,
HOW COULD IT WORK?
BY WHAT MECHANISM CAN THE MIND
AFFECT THE BODY?
A COLLEAGUE OF DEEPAK'S
CLAIMS TO KNOW.
HE'S PROFESSOR OF NEUROLOGY
AT HARVARD MEDICAL SCHOOL,
AN EXPERT ON THE GENETIC CAUSES
OF ALZHEIMER'S DISEASE,
RUDY TANZI.
RUDY TANZI: LET'S START
WITH THE BASIC FACT
THAT WITH YOUR MIND AND
WHAT YOU ARE SIMPLY THINKING
OR INTENDING OR IMAGINING,
YOU CHANGE PHYSICALLY
THE NEUROCHEMISTRY
AND THE GENETIC ACTIVITY
IN YOUR BRAIN.
WE KNOW THAT'S THE CASE, RIGHT?
YOU CAN SIMPLY SAY
I WANT TO RECALL A SUNSET
I SAW ON VACATION,
AND YOUR VISUAL CORTEX
IS ACTIVATED
AS YOU SEE THAT SUNSET.
THAT'S MIND OVER BRAIN.
SO IF YOU CAN DO THAT,
IF WE KNOW THE BRAIN
IS THIS HIGHLY FLEXIBLE,
PLASTIC ORGAN,
REMODELING AND RESHAPING
ITS NEURAL NETWORKS
AND MEMORY MAPS ALL THE TIME,
AND THEY RESHAPE SIMPLY
WITH JUST WHAT YOU THINK
AND WITH YOUR INTENTION.
YOU HAVE AN INTENTION TO SAY
I WANT TO BE
A BETTER PERSON TODAY,
YOUR NEUROCHEMISTRY AND GENETICS
CHANGES IN RESPONSE
TO YOUR MIND.
THAT'S PSYCHOSOMATIC.
IT'S NOT FOR DISEASE, THOUGH,
IT'S FOR WHO I AM,
HOW, HOW DO I BEHAVE
IN THE EVERYDAY WORLD?
NOW, CAN THAT THEN BE TRANSLATED
TO DISEASE?
THAT'S MORE DIFFICULT.
DISEASE IS TOUGH.
CAN YOU CURE
YOUR ALZHEIMER'S DISEASE
WITH YOUR MIND?
WELL, YOU KNOW,
STUDYING ALZHEIMER'S,
I SEE IT
AS A VERY FORMIDABLE FOE,
AND I HAVE TO RESPECT IT
AND SAY I DON'T THINK SO.
BUT MAYBE SOMEDAY,
WHEN WE'RE A BIT MORE EVOLVED,
AND WE CAN MORE NATURALLY GUIDE,
INSTRUCT,
LEAD OUR NEUROCHEMISTRY
AND GENETICS WITH OUR MIND,
MAYBE SOMEDAY
WE'LL PREVENT ALZHEIMER'S
FROM OCCURRING
IN THE FIRST PLACE
WHEN WE LEARN MORE ABOUT HOW
LIFESTYLE INTERACTS
WITH PATHOLOGY AND THE DISEASE.
WE'RE NOT THERE YET.
ROBERT: WHEN YOU SAY THE MIND,
WHAT DOES THAT MEAN?
BECAUSE MOST NEUROSCIENTISTS
WOULD SAY THE MIND
IS JUST THE SUM TOTAL
OF THE OUTPUT OF THE BRAIN.
SO YOU'RE REALLY SAYING
THE SAME THING,
THAT THE, THE BRAIN
IS CHANGING THE BRAIN.
RUDY: IT'S--
THE MIND AND THE BRAIN
ARE A SELF-ORGANIZING SYSTEM,
OR WHAT'S CALLED
A RECURSIVE SYSTEM.
IF THE BRAIN CREATES THE MIND,
THE MIND MUST IN TURN
CONTROL AND CREATE THE BRAIN.
ANYTHING YOU THINK, AS A PERSON,
ANY THOUGHT YOU CREATE
IS GOING TO COME BACK
TO THEN CONTROL YOU, OKAY.
IT'S JUST, IT'S JUST A BASIC
RULE OF BALANCE IN THE UNIVERSE.
SO IF YOU APPLY THAT
TO THE BRAIN AND MIND,
ANYBODY WHO SAYS THE MIND
IS JUST A PRODUCT OF THE BRAIN
MUST, ACCORDING TO THE RULES
OF SELF-ORGANIZATION,
SAY THEN THE BRAIN IS THEN
A PRODUCT OF THE MIND.
IT'S, AND IT'S
A LARGE FEEDBACK LOOP.
ROBERT: BUT IN THAT LARGE
FEEDBACK LOOP,
YOU DON'T NEED ANYTHING OUTSIDE
THE PHYSICALIST WORLD.
YOU DON'T NEED ANY NON-PHYSICAL
CONSCIOUSNESS OF ANY KIND.
RUDY: ALL YOU NEED
IS AN EXPLANATION
OF WHAT THOSE SENSATIONS
AND QUALIA ARE IN THE MIND
THAT YOU CAN RECALL.
WE HAVE A PRETTY GOOD IDEA
IN NEUROSCIENCE
OF HOW THE BRAIN RECALLS
THOSE EXPERIENCES.
WE DON'T KNOW
HOW THOSE EXPERIENCES
ARE CATALOGUED AND STORED
IN FAT, PROTEIN AND WATER.
WE JUST, WE JUST DON'T KNOW YET.
SO I, I THINK THAT IN TERMS
OF THE MIND,
THESE ARE THE, THE PRODUCTS
OF CONSCIOUSNESS,
SO I LIKE TO THINK OF US AS
AT THE VERY ROOTS OF OURSELVES,
IN OUR SOUL,
AS JUST PURE AWARENESS,
ONE WITH GOD AS PURE AWARENESS.
AND IF, IF ALL, IF EVERYTHING
STARTS WITH JUST PURE AWARENESS,
AWARENESS MUST BE AWARE
OF SOMETHING,
AND IT CAN ONLY BE AWARE
OF ITSELF, THAT'S ALL THERE IS.
I DON'T PERSONALLY BELIEVE
IN A PHYSICAL WORLD.
OKAY, AS I TAP A TABLE,
FOR ME, BELIEVING THAT THERE
ARE PHYSICAL, SOLID THINGS
FLOATING AROUND IN SOME BIG
MAGIC HOUSE CALLED THE UNIVERSE,
AND THEN IT ENDS
AND THEN THERE'S INFINITY
AND NOTHINGNESS
IS LIKE BELIEVING
IN SANTA CLAUS.
IT'S MUCH, MUCH EASIER TO FATHOM
A UNIVERSE OF CONSCIOUSNESS,
WHICH IS PRODUCED AS AWARENESS
FINDS AN OBJECT IN ITSELF.
SO AS AWARENESS BECOMES
AWARE OF ITSELF,
WHICH IS ALL IT CAN DO,
THAT'S ALL THERE IS,
CONSCIOUSNESS IS CREATED,
WE USE OUR NERVOUS SYSTEMS,
OUR BRAINS TO DO THAT.
WE'RE A SELF-ORGANIZING SYSTEM
OF CONSCIOUSNESS
THAT'S BECOMING
MORE AND MORE COMPLEX,
MORE INTELLIGENCE, MORE DENSE
THROUGH THE TIMELINE
TO BECOME MORE AND MORE
SOPHISTICATED VEHICLES
OF DELIVERING AND INTERPRETING
CONSCIOUSNESS
AS AWARENESS BECOMES AWARE
OF ITSELF.
ROBERT:
I LIKE SELF-ORGANIZING SYSTEMS--
A NEW PRINCIPLE TO DRIVE
TOWARDS ORDER AND COMPLEXITY,
YET WITHOUT DESIGN,
INTENT OR CONTROL.
BUT SELF-ORGANIZING SYSTEMS
ARE ALSO USED
TO EXPLAIN CONSCIOUSNESS
IN PURELY PHYSICAL TERMS.
I'M NOT CONVINCED--
INNER EXPERIENCE SEEMS
SO RADICALLY DIFFERENT.
BUT THEN TO LEAP
TO PURE AWARENESS,
DENYING THE PHYSICAL WORLD?
FOR ME, FOR NOW,
THAT'S A LEAP TOO FAR.
I ADMIRE THE COURAGE,
BUT NOT THE CONCLUSION.
PERHAPS I SHOULD SET ASIDE
THE PHILOSOPHY
AND CONSIDER THE PERSONAL.
MY 99-YEAR-OLD MOTHER
JUST TOLD ME ON FACETIME
THAT I LOOK OLD.
ONE SCIENTIST AT THE
SAGES & SCIENTISTS CONFERENCE
STUDIES BIOLOGICAL AGING,
HOW PSYCHOLOGICAL STRESS
SPEEDS AGING--
ELISSA EPEL.
ELISSA EPEL:
THERE'S BEEN JUST SO MANY
WHAT I'LL CALL
INCREMENTAL STUDIES
LOOKING AT HOW DIFFERENT WAYS
STRESS, DEPRESSION, HOSTILITIES,
KIND OF CHRONIC STATES
THAT WE FIND OURSELVES IN
ARE JUST SIMPLY BAD
FOR DISEASE ONSET,
WORSE PROGNOSIS,
EARLIER MORTALITY.
SO WE KNOW ALL THAT.
SO, WHAT IS NEW HERE IS
IT'S HELPFUL TO LOOK EARLY ON.
EARLY IN LIFE, WHAT IS MOVING
AROUND THE AGING CLOCK,
HOW CAN WE FIND
THE MALLEABLE FACTORS,
THE MINDSETS,
THE LIFESTYLE FACTORS,
THE RIGHT TYPE OF PILLS
OR NUTRITION,
THAT WILL SLOW THE AGING CLOCK?
I MEAN, WE ARE ALL SO PUMPED UP
AND ACCELERATED IN OUR AGING,
WITH ALL OF OUR EXCESSES OF FOOD
AND STRESS, TOO,
AND SO WE'RE ALL
KIND OF INFLAMED AS WE AGE.
WE GET THIS KIND OF WHAT WE CALL
"INFLAMM-AGING,"
THESE HIGH LEVELS
OF INFLAMM-AGING
THAT ARE JUST CAUSING HAVOC
ON OUR CELLS' ABILITY
TO REPLICATE IN A NORMAL WAY
AND STAY HEALTHY
AND KEEP TISSUE HEALTHY.
SO NOW THE FIELD IS ABLE TO LOOK
INSIDE THE CELL
AND JUST LOOK AT THE MACHINERY.
HOW WELL IS IT FUNCTIONING?
SO, WE'VE BEEN LOOKING
AT TELOMERES,
THESE CAPS AT THE ENDS
OF CHROMOSOMES, AND AS WE...
ROBERT: CHROMOSOME
BEING THE GENETIC MATERIAL
WITHIN THE CELL WITHIN WHICH
THE DNA IS, UH, COILED.
ELISSA: EXACTLY, AND SO
PARTICULARLY IN THESE CELLS
THAT NEED TO DIVIDE
THROUGHOUT LIFE,
LIKE THE IMMUNE CELLS,
THE TELOMERES
HAVE GOT TO STAY LONG
FOR THAT CELL TO KEEP DIVIDING.
ROBERT: THE ENDS
OF THE CHROMOSOMES.
ELISSA: SO WE'VE BEEN LOOKING
AT STRESS AND TELOMERE LENGTH,
FOR YEARS, AND THE STORY ADDS UP
AND IS THAT ADVERSITY
IN ALL FORMS--
DEPRESSION,
PSYCHIATRIC DISORDERS,
EARLY TRAUMA, STRESS
WHEN YOU'RE IN THE WOMB--
ALL OF THESE THINGS
ARE CHIPPING AWAY
AT THAT CELL'S AGE.
AND IT'S ALSO LIKELY
THAT EARLY ON,
WHEN WE'RE UNDER STRESS,
IT'S ALSO SHAPING
HOW OUR BRAIN WORKS,
SO IT'S CAUSING US TO BE
MORE STRESS REACTIVE
IN THE WAY WE SEE THINGS
THROUGHOUT LIFE.
ROBERT:
SO WHAT ARE SOME OF THE THINGS
THAT EITHER DECREASE THE SIZE
OF THE TELOMERE
AND THEREFORE AGE US
MORE QUICKLY,
OR ALTERNATIVELY, WHAT ARE
THE KINDS OF THINGS
THAT KEEP TELOMERES BIG AND FAT
AND YOUNG THAT PROTECT US.
ELISSA: SO ONE BIG PART
OF THAT VARIANCE IS GENETICS.
SO YOU TEND TO BE BORN
WITH LONG TELOMERES OR SHORT...
AND THEN A LOT OF THAT VARIANCE
IS SHAPED THROUGHOUT LIFE,
THROUGH OUR LIFESTYLE
AND OUR EXPERIENCES.
WE HAVE STARTED TO SEE EFFECTS
THAT THE NEIGHBORHOOD
YOU LIVE IN
IS ASSOCIATED WITH THE LENGTH
OF YOUR TELOMERES,
HOW MUCH MONEY YOU MAKE,
HOW MUCH EDUCATION YOU'VE
ATTAINED EARLIER IN YOUR LIFE,
DECADES EARLIER IN YOUR LIFE,
IS ASSOCIATED WITH THE LENGTH
OF YOUR TELOMERES.
ROBERT: IN TERMS OF LENGTH
OF TELOMERE
AND THEREFORE THE AGING
AND DISEASE PROCESS,
IS STRESS, LIKE,
THE MOST IMPORTANT VARIABLE
THAT YOU'VE DISCOVERED?
HOW ABOUT SOME OF THE OTHERS?
ELISSA: THAT'S WHAT I'VE
BEEN FOCUSED ON.
THERE'S A LOT
OF LIFESTYLE VARIABLES,
SO VIGOROUS EXERCISE
IS ASSOCIATED
WITH LONGER TELOMERES.
NUTRITION'S IMPORTANT.
WE HAVEN'T QUITE
FIGURED THAT OUT,
BUT SO FAR IT LOOKS
LIKE TAKING VITAMINS
AND TAKING OMEGA SUPPLEMENTS
OR HAVING A LOT OF OMEGA-3
FATTY ACIDS IN YOUR BLOOD.
WE FOUND THAT PEOPLE WHO REPORT
THAT THEY DO
MORE MIND WANDERING,
THEY KIND OF WISHING
THEY WERE SOMEWHERE ELSE...
NO GOOD.
YOU KNOW, THAT'S ASSOCIATED
WITH SHORTER TELOMERES
INDEPENDENT
OF ALL THE OTHER THINGS
WE'VE KNOWN TO MEASURE
AND STUDY LIKE STRESS.
ROBERT:
SO, BE HAPPY WHERE YOU ARE,
IT IS WHAT IT IS,
ENJOY THE MOMENT.
ELISSA: ALMOST. I WOULD SAY
BE CONTENT WHERE YOU ARE.
BECAUSE I THINK HAPPINESS
IS ANOTHER MYTH
THAT WE TRY TO CHASE
AND THINK THAT WE NEED
TO BE HAPPY.
THAT IS NOT TYPICALLY
A STATE THAT LASTS.
THOSE ARE STATES WE SHOULD
NOTICE AND ENJOY BUT NOT CHASE.
THAT, I THINK, KIND OF LEADS
TO THE EXCESSES
AND THE DISCONTENT
AND THE MATERIALISM
THAT WE'RE JUST SOAKED IN.
ROBERT: IT'S COMMON SENSE.
REDUCE STRESS.
MAINTAIN GOOD ATTITUDES.
IF MEDITATIVE PRACTICES
CAN HELP, GOOD, GO FOR IT!
BUT, TO ME, EVEN IF MEDITATION
DOES REDUCE STRESS,
ITS THERAPEUTIC SUCCESS
IN MEDICINE
DOES NOT JUSTIFY ITS MYSTICAL
THEORIES OF CONSCIOUSNESS.
MANY DISAGREE WITH ME,
SEEING IN EASTERN WAYS
DEEP INSIGHTS.
I ASK A WESTERN-TRAINED
SCIENTIST
WHO FOUNDED THE ASIAN
CONSCIOUSNESS FESTIVAL, GINO YU.
GINO YU: THE QUESTION IS WHAT
IS THE RELATIONSHIP
BETWEEN THIS MENTAL SPACE
AND THE PHYSICAL BODY
AND HOW DID THIS MENTAL SPACE
COME ABOUT.
AND HOW DID THE MIND COME ABOUT?
ROBERT: OKAY.
GINO: AND SO FOR THAT,
WE'RE REALLY LOOKING AT,
WE'VE BEEN LOOKING
AT DEVELOPMENTAL PSYCHOLOGY
AND CHILD DEVELOPMENT.
SO ARGUABLY WHEN WE'RE BORN,
I DON'T KNOW IF YOU REMEMBER
WHEN YOU WERE A BABY,
BUT ARGUABLY THERE IS
NO IDEA OF MIND.
IT'S FAIRLY EMPTY.
A BLANK SLATE.
BUT WHAT HAPPENS IS WE HAVE
AWARENESS OF THE SURROUNDINGS,
AND WE HAVE SENSATIONS
IN THE PHYSIOLOGY,
AND WHAT HAPPENS IS
AS WE BECOME AWARE,
WE NOTICE THAT CERTAIN THINGS
HAPPEN IN A REPETITIVE WAY,
SO THERE ARE CERTAIN SENSATIONS
THAT I MAY FEEL,
AND THEN I MIGHT FEEL
SOME LIQUID ON MY LEG
OR YOU KNOW, POO-POO,
SO WEE-WEE, POO-POO,
AND WE START BUILDING A MENTALLY
CONSTRUCTED WORLDVIEW.
AND SO FROM THIS, MOTHER,
FATHER, CRIB, ROOM, LIGHT,
ALL OF THESE,
THESE THINGS HAPPEN,
AND SO THESE THINGS BECOME
CONCEPTS IN THE MIND,
BUT THEY ACTUALLY BIND
TO SENSATIONS AND PROCESSES
IN THE PHYSIOLOGY.
AND SO AS WE EXPERIENCE LIFE,
WE BUILD A MENTALLY CONSTRUCTED
WORLDVIEW
WHICH THEN MOTIVATES US
TO ACT AND BEHAVE.
THE WORLD THEN INTERACTS
WITH THAT
BASED UPON OUR INTENTIONS.
SOME THINGS MAY WORK,
ACCIDENTS MAY HAPPEN,
THINGS MAY HAPPEN WHICH THEN
INFLUENCE THE, THE PHYSIOLOGY
IN TERMS OF TRIGGERING
THE AUTONOMIC NERVOUS SYSTEM
OR GIVING ME A DOPAMINE FEELING
OR, YOU KNOW,
THIS KIND OF A THING,
WHICH THEN REINFORCES A MENTALLY
CONSTRUCTED WORLDVIEW,
WHICH REINFORCES THE BEHAVIOR,
WHICH REINFORCES THE HOMEOSTASIS
OF THE PHYSIOLOGY.
AND SO WE END UP IN THIS,
THIS LOOP, ARGUABLY,
OF BEHAVIOR.
AND IF YOU THINK ABOUT
WHAT THE MENTALLY CONSTRUCTED,
REALLY, WORLDVIEW REALLY DOES,
IS IT REGULATES THE ENERGY
IN YOUR PHYSIOLOGY.
YOUR BODY IS JUST A COLLECTION
OF CELLS WORKING TOGETHER
TO KEEP THE ORGANISM ALIVE.
ROBERT:
AND THIS MAKES EMINENT SENSE,
I MEAN, THIS IS, BUT THIS IS
STANDARD WESTERN UNDERSTANDING
OF HOW THE BODY AND MIND
WORK TOGETHER.
GINO: BUT THE INTERESTING THING
FROM THIS
IS THE PHYSIOLOGY WANTS
TO MAINTAIN HOMEOSTASIS.
SO THE BODY NATURALLY WANTS
TO HEAL ITSELF.
THE CELLS INDEPENDENTLY WANT
TO HEAL THEMSELVES.
AND WE KNOW THAT, FOR EXAMPLE,
IF I DO THIS TO YOU,
YOUR EYES BLINK,
YOUR BREATH HOLDS,
YOU GET A DOSE OF ADRENALINE,
I'VE TRIGGERED
YOUR AUTONOMIC NERVOUS SYSTEM,
AND SO WE KNOW WESTERN SCIENCE
PERSPECTIVE.
IF I SAY THAT, YOU KNOW,
YOUR HOUSE JUST BURNED DOWN
OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT,
ARGUABLY SIMILAR CHEMICALS
ARE BEING RELEASED
INTO YOUR BLOODSTREAM,
AND FROM THE CELLS
OF YOUR BODY'S PERSPECTIVE,
THEY DON'T KNOW THE DIFFERENCE.
IF WE CAN LOOSEN
THE MIND'S STRINGS,
INFLUENCE ON THE PHYSIOLOGY,
THE PHYSIOLOGY
WILL NATURALLY MAINTAIN,
MOVE TOWARDS A SENSE
OF HOMEOSTASIS AND HEALTH.
AND SO THE QUESTION IS WHAT IS
IT THAT TAKES YOU OUT OF HEALTH,
AND ARGUABLY IT'S, IT'S THIS
CONDITIONED BEHAVIORS
THAT USUALLY HAVE COME
FROM TRAUMA OR ACTIONS
OR A CONDITIONED WAY OF ACTING,
WHICH DOESN'T SUPPORT
THE PHYSIOLOGY
OR ARGUABLY
THIS NATURAL INTELLIGENCE
OF THESE CELLS SPLITTING
AND YOU KNOW, DNA STRANDS
REPLICATING, REPLICATING.
ROBERT: SO WHAT'S
THE IMPLICATION?
WHAT SHOULD I DO TO BE
MORE HEALTHY IF THAT'S TRUE?
GINO: WELL, SO THE, THE TRICK
TO BE MORE HEALTHY
IS TO LISTEN TO YOUR BODY.
WHEN WE'RE A BABY, YOU KNOW,
OUR ENERGY AND OUR ABILITY
WAS FAIRLY LOW
AND OUR KNOWLEDGE
WAS FAIRLY LOW.
BUT AS YOU GROW, YOU KNOW,
YOU BECOME MORE CAPABLE,
AND WHAT ENLIGHTENMENT IS,
POTENTIALLY,
IS THE ABILITY TO REACH
ESCAPE VELOCITY.
AND THE ONLY WAY YOU CAN DO THAT
IS TO LIVE FROM PRESENCE.
ROBERT: TO GINO,
THE FEELINGS OF THE BODY,
ITS ENERGY AND EQUILIBRIUM,
ARE PROFOUND.
OKAY, BUT WHAT FOLLOWS?
HOW FAR CAN WE PUSH THE SCIENCE
OF MIND-BODY INTERACTIONS?
I ASK DR. MURALI DORAISWAMY,
PROFESSOR OF PSYCHIATRY AND
MEDICINE AT DUKE UNIVERSITY.
MURALI DORAISWAMY:
ABOUT 20, 25 YEARS AGO,
PEOPLE THOUGHT THE MIND
AND THE BODY WERE SEPARATE.
AND THE CLASSIC EXPERIMENTS DONE
BY HERBERT BENSON AT HARVARD
WHO SHOWED THAT MEDITATION
INDUCED A RELAXATION RESPONSE.
THE RELAXATION RESPONSE
THEN PRODUCED
VERY PROFOUND
PHYSIOLOGIC EFFECTS,
NOT ONLY JUST
ON YOUR HEART RATE,
ON YOUR BREATHING,
BUT ALSO ON YOUR IMMUNE SYSTEM,
ON YOUR WHITE BLOOD CELLS.
AND THEN NOW PEOPLE HAVE SHOWN
IT AFFECTS MAYBE MORE THAN 5,000
DIFFERENT GENES.
SO THE RELAXATION RESPONSE
FUNDAMENTALLY CHANGES
GENE EXPRESSION.
SO THE WHOLE FIELD
OF EPIGENETICS
THAT'S BECOME, YOU KNOW,
RISEN TO THE TOP
OVER THE LAST TEN YEARS
BASICALLY SAYS WHILE GENES
SORT OF--
YOU MAY BE BORN WITH A CERTAIN
SET OF GENETIC PREDISPOSITIONS,
YOUR ENVIRONMENT CHANGES WHETHER
THE GENES ARE EXPRESSED OR NOT.
SO YOU CAN TURN ON OR TURN OFF
CERTAIN GENES.
AND I THINK THAT IS
THE MAIN MECHANISM
AT A FUNDAMENTAL CELLULAR LEVEL
THROUGH WHICH HAVING
A HEALTHY MIND
REDUCES YOUR RISK FOR DISEASE.
VIRTUALLY EVERY DISEASE
THAT'S BEEN STUDIED,
FROM HEART DISEASE TO RECOVERY
FROM BREAST CANCER,
IMPROVEMENT AND RECOVERY
FROM MAJOR DEPRESSION,
EVERY ONE OF THESE CONDITIONS,
MIND-RELATED TECHNIQUES--
FOR EXAMPLE, MEDITATION,
FOR EXAMPLE, YOGA,
MINDFULNESS-BASED
STRESS REDUCTION--
ALL OF THESE HAVE BEEN SHOWN TO
DRAMATICALLY IMPROVE OUTCOMES.
SO THE FUNDAMENTAL THEORY
AT LEAST
IS THAT ALL OF THESE
SORT OF MINDFULNESS PRACTICES
BOOSTS YOUR
PARASYMPATHETIC SYSTEM.
IT INDUCES
THE RELAXATION RESPONSE.
IT MIGHT REDUCE
THE HYPERACTIVITY OF A SYSTEM
CALLED THE HYPOTHALAMIC
PITUITARY ADRENAL AXIS
SO THERE IS LESS CORTISOL
BEING RELEASED.
AND THROUGH THESE
CHEMICAL CHANGES,
THEY AFFECT EVERY SYSTEM
IN THE BODY.
ROBERT: LET'S GO
THROUGH THE MECHANISM
OF HOW THAT OCCURS.
MURALI: SO THERE ARE
TWO SYSTEMS IN OUR BODY
THAT ARE CRITICALLY RELATED
TO STRESS.
THE FIRST IS
THE SYMPATHETIC NERVOUS SYSTEM,
WHICH IS SORT OF
THE FIGHT OR FLIGHT SYSTEM.
YOU KNOW, YOU SEE A BEAR
WHEN YOU WERE A CAVEMAN,
OR A TIGER,
AND YOUR BODY HAS TO GO
ON FULL ALERT,
AND IT DRAINS ALL THE RESOURCES
FROM EVERYTHING ELSE
JUST TO MAKE SURE
THAT YOU CAN OUTRUN THE BEAR
OR THE TIGER, SO THAT'S...
ROBERT: OR OUTRUN YOU.
MURALI: EXACTLY.
SO THAT'S THE SYMPATHETIC
NERVOUS SYSTEM.
NOW, WHAT HAPPENS IS IF YOU'RE
REPEATEDLY EXPOSED TO STRESS--
SO CHRONIC STRESS,
ESPECIALLY THE KIND OF STRESS
THAT YOU'RE NOT ABLE
TO OVERCOME--
THEN YOUR BODY'S BASELINE
SYMPATHETIC NERVOUS SYSTEM
GETS HYPER ACTIVATED.
THE SAME THING HAPPENS TO YOUR
CORTISOL HPA AXIS SYSTEM.
SO AS YOUR STRESS RESPONSE
INCREASES,
THERE'S MORE CORTISOL
BEING PRODUCED.
AND AS THERE'S MORE CORTISOL
BEING PRODUCED,
CORTISOL ACTUALLY HAS
A TOXIC EFFECT
ON NERVE CELLS IN THE BRAIN.
STUDIES IN ANIMALS,
IN PRIMATE MODELS,
HAVE SHOWN THAT CORTISOL
CAN DAMAGE NERVE CELLS
IN THE HIPPOCAMPUS
AND THE AMYGDALA.
THERE ARE OTHER STUDIES
THAT SHOW
URBAN DWELLERS
WHO ARE EXPOSED TO STRESS
HAVE EXAGGERATED RESPONSES
IN THEIR AMYGDALA.
SO IN DEPRESSION, FOR EXAMPLE,
WHAT WE CLASSICALLY SEE
IS THE AMYGDALA IS
THE EMOTIONAL THERMOSTAT.
IT'S ALMOST LIKE THE THERMOSTAT
GETS PERMANENTLY TURNED ON
AT A MUCH HIGHER LEVEL
SO THAT YOU'RE KIND OF
FLOODING YOUR BODY
WITH ALL KINDS OF STRESS,
SO IT'S A VICIOUS CYCLE.
AND THAT'S THE VICIOUS CYCLE
THAT I THINK IS DEADLY.
ROBERT:
AND THAT CAN BE CONTROLLED
THROUGH SOME
OF THESE TECHNIQUES.
MURALI: CORRECT.
STUDIES HAVE SHOWN THAT AFTER
A 20-MINUTE BOUT OF EXERCISE
YOUR CORTISOL LEVEL DROPS.
AND WITH CONTINUED PRACTICE,
YOU'RE SORT OF DOWN-REGULATING
IT BACK TO A NORMAL STATE.
SO YOUR RESPONSES TO STRESS
BECOME MORE LIKE THAT
OF A SURFER.
YOU KNOW, YOU'RE SURFING
THE OCEAN,
YOU CAN EITHER DROWN
UNDER THE WATER
OR YOU CAN LEARN
HOW TO RIDE THE WAVES.
AND THAT'S
WHAT A MEDITATOR DOES.
ROBERT:
AND THIS USED TO BE SOMETHING
THAT WAS LIKE PERIPHERAL
OR ALTERNATIVE MEDICINE,
BUT NOW IT'S...
MURALI: CENTRAL.
IT'S PROBABLY MORE IMPORTANT
THAN EVERY PILL WE HAVE.
IF YOGA WERE AVAILABLE
AS A MEDICINE,
IT WOULD BE THE WORLD'S
BEST-SELLING DRUG.
ROBERT:
THE MIND AFFECTS THE BODY--
I'VE NO DOUBT.
OUR PHYSICAL HEALTH
IS DETERMINED, AT LEAST IN PART,
BY OUR MENTAL DISPOSITION.
STRESS IN SHORT, SHARP BURSTS
MAY ENHANCE PERFORMANCE,
BUT CHRONIC STRESS
IS ALWAYS BAD.
SURE, BEWARE
THE HYPESTERS AND HUCKSTERS
PROMOTING THEIR CURES
AND PANACEAS,
BUT THERE IS NOW REAL SCIENCE
SUPPORTING
SOME ALTERNATIVE MEDICINE.
WHAT'S THE ROLE
OF CONSCIOUSNESS?
FRANKLY, I DON'T THINK
WE CAN KNOW.
ON DEEP THEORIES
OF CONSCIOUSNESS,
PSYCHOSOMATIC MEDICINE
IS NEUTRAL.
IF CONSCIOUSNESS IS
THE MERE OUTPUT OF BRAIN,
HOW THE MIND AFFECTS THE BODY
WOULDN'T NEGATE IT.
IF CONSCIOUSNESS IS PRIMARY,
HOW THE MIND AFFECTS THE BODY
WOULDN'T PROVE IT.
THIS WE DO KNOW:
MENTAL HEALTH GENERATES
PHYSICAL HEALTH,
WHICH, FOR ALL OF US,
SHOULD BE CLOSER TO TRUTH.
