CLIFF: So good
afternoon, everyone.
Welcome to another
Talks at Google event.
We are extremely thrilled
today to have Erik Hall, who
is a contemporary artist and
the co-owner of the Hall Spassov
Gallery in Bellevue,
Washington and Seattle
and expanding throughout
the Pacific Northwest.
Our subject today is building
a modern art collection,
which I think is pretty timely,
and also to expand the thesis,
talking about the role of the
artist in contemporary society
in this age of storytelling
and attention deficit.
And so he'll speak
to us not only
about forming an art collection,
either as a personal passion
or as a potential
investment, and he will also
outline the current
state of the industry.
So, without further
ado, please join me
in welcoming Erik to Google.
Thank you.
ERIK HALL: Thank you.
Thank you.
So as Cliff mentioned,
my name is Erik Hall,
and I'm the co-owner of Hall
Spassov Gallery in Bellevue,
Washington.
We have a location
in Seattle as well.
I own the gallery with
my wife, Amy Spassov,
and we started the
gallery in 2006.
Now we're both artists,
and that has with it
some kind of-- maybe some would
reference it as a faux pas,
but in truth I
think it's given us
a lot of understanding of
the plight of the artist
and therefore gave us
a little bit of an edge
in doing what we do for living.
And it's an unusual
relationship.
That is to say, that artists
don't typically run galleries,
and I don't think
they-- definitely,
as far as I understand,
don't run two galleries.
But one of the reasons
that we opened the gallery
to begin with was to help
cultivate the next generation
of art collector,
and we defined kind
of what we thought
that was, but that
was really the main mission.
And the growth that
it's had over the years
was not something that
necessarily we planned.
We always just kind
of shot from the hip
and acted on our
instincts, and I
thought that was really,
really important in the success
that we've had, because
we didn't really
follow the flow of what
was going on around us.
And we did most of our
growing, oddly enough,
during the Great
Recession, and we did so
by taking advantage of
maybe lower property values
when we were looking
for a gallery.
But the gallery itself
started in a basement,
and it was a place where
for a time we lived,
because we couldn't
afford anything else,
and as the business grew we
decided we wanted a street
front spot, and
we got that spot,
and we grew out of
that within a year.
And today this is our
gallery in Bellevue.
I think we've been
there for about five,
almost six years now.
That's a piece of
toast in the window,
and that's also a
cap gun over there,
and I think that's actually
a really good indication
of the type of work
that we want to carry.
It's something that's
a little bit out there.
It's not necessarily a
pretty landscape or something
that you're going to want to put
above your couch necessarily,
although we do
have those things.
But as a rule, we want to
challenge people a little bit
with the art that we represent.
This is the show that's up
currently in the gallery.
It's an artist named
Francesca Sundsten.
We're really proud
of Francesca's work,
and it's been described
as otherworldly.
There's always a narrative going
on in her work but, as such,
I think it's still
something that's
really pretty and
appealing to look at.
The stories about art are
really, really important,
and I'll get into
that a little bit.
That's Amy, my wife.
That's before an opening that we
had probably a few years back,
but this is what we
really look like.
And that's an
important photo for me,
because the truth
of our business
is that we built
every bit of it.
We don't sub out when
we open a gallery.
We are exceptionally
good drywallers.
I know a little bit
about electrical,
enough not to get
the city involved.
We might have to edit that.
So, in truth, we labor so that
we can keep our overhead low
in the beginning, so that we can
exist, because in this business
sometimes just
existing is succeeding.
It's a tough business
to exploit for a living,
but we've done so because
we do all the heavy lifting
ourselves.
I have a great picture of
Amy, and please forgive me,
of tears streaming down
a drywall-ridden face,
because we were just done.
We just wanted the work to be
over on this particular place,
but we got it open and it
worked out really well.
This particular photo is of
us deciding that we wanted
to learn how to pour concrete.
We'll use it in some practical
application on another day.
So this was the question that
I thought was the most pivotal,
and this is a risky
question for me,
because in truth I didn't
know who was going to be here.
So it might have been--
the "us" was a weird thing,
because if there was just
one of you, it would be,
why is this guy talking to me?
And if none of you
showed up, then it
would be why is
this guy talking.
So why is this
guy talking to us?
And I'm here because I want to
talk to you about this print.
This is a
Toulouse-Lautrec print,
and if you're
familiar with it, it's
because it's being
sold everywhere
in the United States.
You can get that at
Bed, Bath and Beyond.
You can get it anyplace
that sells prints.
Its value is aesthetic and
maybe that it fills a wall,
but its actual monetary value
and it's emotional value
is diluted, in my opinion,
because it is so mass produced.
And so I'm here
really to talk to you
about the mass standardization
of this type of work,
that I'm hoping
that you will avoid.
And I want you to replace
it with something like this.
This is a piece
by Gerard Cambon.
He's a French artist, and
he has land in France, acres
and acres and acres of it that's
been in his family for years,
and he scavenges it for
things to make art out of.
You can imagine
what you might find
in the countryside
of France after it's
been war ridden for centuries.
And the stuff that he's
found, in particular,
are really special.
But what's more special about
it is the story behind the work,
and the story behind
the work is this,
is that Gerard is actually
a cancer survivor,
and he started making a lot
of these particular pieces
that we call bas
reliefs, and those bas
reliefs were a story for him.
And the story goes
is that he would
go to his socialized
medicine-- or excuse me--
he was in a socialized
medicine system
in France, where
he was receiving
his chemotherapy
treatment, and he
was in the treatment with the
same people at the same time
all the time, so
they became friends.
So it was them looking
out on the world together.
And so you imagine the
friendships and the bonds
that you might form
but, luckily for Gerard,
he found himself in remission
and has been cancer free since,
but he started
making these, also
things that he found from
the countryside in France.
But the great story here is that
these are get-away vehicles.
Still him and his
people, but now they're
flying down the road, they're
free from their cancer,
and they're together.
So there's a great
story in there,
and it doesn't have to be that
story for you necessarily,
because we all can't
necessarily relate to that.
But what we can
relate to is the bonds
that conform over
discussion that we
have with other people, a
general understanding that we
gain from simply communicating,
even on a basic level.
In this case we're
communicating through art.
Or I'll have you get this.
This is something that I think
is also better than a print.
This is an Ellwood Risk piece.
And we all know Felix
from our childhoods--
or I do from my childhood--
and we laughed at him
as he dropped bombs on
things and blew things up,
and it's odd that the
conversation in current media
is almost an entertainment
sort, because we
look at a television, and we
see bombs and things exploding,
and we've almost
become numb to it.
And so what's being called out
in this particular piece of art
is to question how we look at
the things that are going on
on our television, and do
we look at it as education
in world affairs or do we
look at it as entertainment.
And so this art
has a street bent,
but the story is
still a poignant one.
Or I'll have you get
something like this.
This is an example of extremely
technically challenging work.
It's really beautiful
work, in my opinion,
but it's technically
challenging.
This is Alicia Tormey.
She's a local artist
that we represent,
and what's so phenomenal
about this work is
this is an encaustic.
Encaustic is one of the
oldest mediums known,
and it's one of the most
impervious to the environment,
because it's wax and
resin and dry pigment.
But what's unique
about Alicia-- and this
is the technical
aspect that I'm hoping
people will find
fascinating, aside
from the beauty of the
work-- is how it's done.
She barely touches the
surface of the painting.
She moves this around with
alcohol immersions and a torch
and forced air.
And so she's painting,
but she's barely touching
the surface of the pieces.
And so it becomes really,
really technically
challenging in its execution.
And when you step back from
it, it's just flawless.
It's absolutely a
flawless surface,
and it's really,
really beautiful.
But if people want
to invest in it
and understand the
technical nature of it,
there'll be an added bonus
for you in its value.
So we're used to seeing art
in a lot of different formats,
and I think that it becomes
the question of, what is art
and what isn't.
It's something that comes
up in our lives quite a bit.
And so, as such, we look at it
with kind of discerning eyes,
and I see things
on the internet,
and I see things in
editorials, and I
see things in print
advertising, and they're
saying that this is
art, and sometimes it is
and sometimes it isn't,
and discerning the two is
really, really important.
So if you might
look through, say,
a piece of print
advertising, you
might see something like this.
And there's nothing
wrong with this.
That's a piece of art, and I'm
sure it's beautifully executed,
but that particular thing
isn't a piece of art.
That's a print.
And if you can
spend money on that,
I would encourage you
to go out and spend
that same amount of money from
an artist's studio, that's
budding, that's new, that maybe
it was something that spoke
to you, and get that
instead, because this
is going to show
up in your house
and then it'll show up in a
bunch of other people's homes
as well, thus diluting
its importance.
So what I'd rather you do
is get something like this.
Works in the same room.
It's not necessarily as
pretty, but that's certainly
a matter of opinion.
But this particular
piece by Chris Leib
called "Sabotaging Eden" is
a really strong narrative
on what happens when
we show up to places.
We're already fighting over
the damn piece of pizza.
What's going to happen
next as resources dwindle?
So you can see some of
the relative importance
of this, especially with the
modern themes in the news.
Here's another example.
Beautiful room.
I'm not sure what that is.
In my personal taste,
I don't care for it.
But why not have a
dialogue something
more like this,
about how technology
and our natural environments
are becoming so convoluted
that it's hard to
separate the two,
and it's hard to
figure out necessarily
which one we want to live in.
So you take this room
that's still very beautiful,
it still works, but
now there's something
that causes a bit of pause.
Has the same colors, has
the same general feel,
but requires an
intellectual response.
Here's another example.
So I would put it to anyone
looking at this to discern
that print from the pillows.
So the print has the
same feel as the pillows,
and I had a really
big issue with that,
because that means
that we're looking
at those things the
same way, and we
shouldn't do that with art.
So when you're initially getting
into a place in your life
where you want to
buy artwork, I would
encourage you to buy artwork.
Don't buy something that people
are selling as decoration.
The difference between art and
decoration is paramount here.
Here's a better piece for you.
So this is a piece
by Jeff Peters.
Still works in the room,
but what the heck is that
antelope doing in that
institutional-type hallway?
It still works
effectively in the room,
but now you have cause
for conversation.
Like, what the hell
is going on there?
And why is that important?
Why did you spend money on that?
That might be a
conversation that
happens when your friends
come over to visit.
I know that something certainly
that's come up in the gallery,
but the artist
here is the story.
It's a beautiful
piece to look at,
but what's essentially
going on here
is this artist's whole
childhood playing out
in an individual piece.
And if you took time to
understand it and invest
in the story, you
might actually find
that it relates in some ways to
your own personal life, which
is going to be quite a bit
different than pillows.
But with this piece
in particular,
this artist grew up
in an environment that
was so confined
and regimented, so
filled with pristine
white and pristine this,
and even touching
these things would've
been off limits and against
the rules in this house,
so his ideas about beauty
are a little bit convoluted.
So what he's doing
is he's showing you
things that are simply a
little bit out of place
but still glitzed up and
act like they belong.
They are almost
untouchable in a way.
One more example.
Instead.
And so what we're
looking at here
is a piece by Daniel Ochoa.
Now you're probably
not going to want
to have breakfast next to
this guy every morning,
but maybe you will, because
you've invested in the story
and you understand
it a little bit.
And so it comes down to what
you can be comfortable with.
And if you understand
and invest in the story
behind a piece of art,
you might actually
further understand its value.
But it gives you something to
converse about over breakfast,
if for no other
reason than for that.
Plus it still works in the room.
It's nice.
So I want to kind of break away
from the visual part of this
and touch a little bit on
the statistical part of it.
And when it comes to
buying art, the difference
between decoration and art
is that your investment
into a piece of
artwork is something
that's going to last as long as
you purchase it the right way.
And when I say purchase
it the right way,
I mean don't buy something
because your friend told you
it was the next hot
artist and you run out
and you spend thousands
of dollars on it,
hoping that it will
increase in value.
If you're buying
it as a commodity,
you're already short changing
yourself to some degree.
If you buy it because you have
an affinity for something,
because you love it, it
speaks to you in some way,
your investment in it
will always be safe.
Now that's not to say
that you shouldn't buy art
as a commodity, that's
certainly something that you do.
And to that point, this
chart illustrates the course
of art over the last 20 years
or so, and as you look at it,
it's got a nice little
pitch at the end.
Now there's certainly
an ebb and flow to it
that can be related to
certain things happening
in the economy, but what's
true about art sales
over the course of
history is there's never
been a significant dip.
It's been a consistent
rise, and sometimes they
have meteoric rises.
And what's interesting
about this, in particular,
is some of these meteoric
rises are happening at a time
where everything else
is absolutely tanking.
And so, if you take a look at
individual artists-- this one
I always thought
was pretty pivotal.
Basquiat is right
up there with Warhol
in auction sales over
the past 20 years
and, more specifically,
in past ten.
So what's interesting here
is that Basquiat is kicking
the S&Ps ass.
And so if you want to make
a purchase as a commodity,
not necessarily for
the love of the work,
that's a pretty safe bet if
you educate yourself about what
it is that you're purchasing.
And so that is a really, really
important part of buying art.
Buy it aesthetically
but understand
what it is that you're buying.
You do it with everything
else in your life.
We go and we look
at something, we
have an affinity for it and then
research the hell out of it.
And in researching
the hell out of it,
we understand more
about it and then
we can make a more
informed purchase.
And maybe not more
informed so much as
that we're more
comfortable with it,
because we understand
more about it.
And that's kind what it is.
You have to create a
comfort about the purchase
that you're going to make.
But art, as a rule, over the
long run is a fairly safe bet.
This is a fun one, I thought.
You guys also kicked the S&Ps
ass during the same amount
of time.
All right.
So I did that.
That's the self promoting
I'm going to do today.
I wanted to talk a little
bit about this thing
that I've been holding
my hand the whole time.
This was a really
interesting piece
that came out in an
underground paper in Seattle,
and what they essentially
did, is they took artists
and they pitted them against
people in the tech industry
to have a conversation to
see where the gap was and see
if we could cross that gap.
And in reading it,
I didn't necessarily
see what I wanted
to see out of it,
which was some kind of
bridge between the two sides.
There was a lot of
name calling in it,
but some things stood
out to me specifically,
and this one is one of the ones
that stood out specifically
to me.
So this is quoting, "and so
there's this sort of divide.
It's the sort of
lunch tablism of life,
like there are nerdy
kids over there,
and here's the art
fag kids over here,
and we are never
going to get along."
That came from an artist
speaking specifically
about the tech industry, and
so it went back and forth.
Here's another one.
"Money feeds art in a way, so
we're hearing all about money,
but it's new money
from people who,
instead of renting
their $4,000 apartment
and then buying a
$10 piece of art,
going to the ballet,
gallery openings,
and being a sophisticated,
cosmopolitan part of the city's
culture, they're interested
in seeing how many Star Wars
toys can I buy.
It's like, oh my god, you should
actually own a work of art.
It makes you a whole person.
It makes you real, and not
just the facade of money."
I strongly disagree with that,
because we live a block away
from a massive tech base,
and we see people all day
long walking by
our gallery, and I
think that there is a reason
to not blame but to invite,
and so our job as
gallery owners is
to find a way to bridge the
gap and not just call names.
So I guess if there
was a crossover that
was going to be had, it's based
on awareness and understanding.
Simply speaking to an
audience and telling them
what they should see is
not really the pointed way
that we want to communicate
with the tech industry,
but you have to understand that
everyone is after you guys.
They want you as an
audience, and it's not just
where we're from in Bellevue
and Seattle, it's everyone
that we talk to that's
in this business,
all has a concern with crossing
over to the tech industry
and finding out a way to
embrace that community
and try to usher them
in as art collectors.
Now, so it becomes a
question of interests.
Like how do I create
an interest as a dealer
to those in that industry?
And we don't know.
What we're trying
to do, simply, is
to show art that speaks to
us, that we hope that everyone
else will have an
interest and educate them
and giving any
opportunity that we
can get to kind of broaden their
horizon a little bit about what
might be something that
they could live with.
And art is just one of them.
I wrote an editorial
piece for an online blog,
and I want to read
that to you real quick
just to kind of sumize
everything that's going on
and to illustrate one
particular story about a couple
that some of you may
be familiar with.
The Vogel's have always been a
source of inspiration for me.
That's a couple from New York.
They were collectors back in
the '50s and '60s, and the story
that they had always
resonated, because they
bought within their means.
They bought things that
they were interested
in and in doing so amassed
a collection of artwork that
was worth millions and
millions of dollars.
But what's most interesting
about them is they
were just normal people.
They didn't spend
outside of their means.
They didn't come
from a ton of money.
So I'm going to read some of
that to you real quick just
because I'm not smart
enough to memorize it all.
"Herbert and Dorothy Vogel were
the very best art collectors,
in my opinion.
They purchased only
what they could afford.
They did not get
caught up in hype.
They did not subscribe to
trend, and they consistently
educated themselves about art by
attending openings and visiting
artist studios.
Herbert worked at
the post office
and Dorothy worked
as a librarian.
They amassed a collection
of art worth millions."
What's important here is they
went to art where art was,
and it allowed them to
kind of open their eyes
and see what was going on
out there in the art world,
and they became fascinated
with these people that
were creating, and they
realized that these people were
really important to
city they lived in.
It was kind of the lifeblood
of the city they lived in.
"Collecting art is
romantic, sophisticated,
and intelligent purchase.
It is a time-honored
interest that
speaks largely to one's
capacity for understanding.
Understanding in this
regard is paramount.
Understanding is a
byproduct of education,
and education about money is the
most powerful tool in acquiring
important pieces of art."
Thinking back to what I said
about understanding what
it is that you're looking
at or considering purchase,
no different than
a vehicle, it's
no different than a
sofa in that regard.
You have to understand
more about it.
What we're trying to get you to
do is look at it a little bit
differently.
Understand the stories,
understand the person
creating those things.
"New collectors who
educate themselves
about a potential
piece of art will
avoid bully dealers
who selfishly
pawn opinion for fact.
Opinion can be a
useful tool as long
as one is knowledgeable
about the person offering
said opinion.
Dealers and galleries
should be vetted as much
as the art they sell.
Familiarizing yourself
with galleries and dealers,
understanding their
qualifications
and how long they
have been in business
will broaden your understanding,
trust and selection of art."
This is really big.
You have to go where
the art is, but you also
have to vet the person
selling you the art as much
as you have to vet
the art itself.
If you want to make
sure that you're
buying an authentic
piece from someone,
it comes from trust
built with the dealer.
"Simply acquiring art was
the most important things
the Vogel's did, and
for new collectors
this is the first step.
Part of this step is to ensure
you are acquiring art and not
decoration.
As all women are human,
not all humans are women.
Such is the case with art.
That Toulouse Lautrec print
you have of the Moulin Rouge
dancers is not art unless
you recently robbed a museum.
It's decoration.
To acquire art, you
need to go where art is.
Galleries, art
fairs, work studios.
Art has paint on it.
Art is made of metal, wood,
canvas, and found objects.
Art is made by hand,
and it has a pulse.
And the initial
visit to an art venue
should include many
things, foremost of these
is observation.
What manner of art is it?
Don't know?
Ask.
Who is the artist?
Don't know?
Ask.
Medium.
Do you have others?
Got questions?
Just ask.
You're going to run into a vast
array of gallery personalities,
while many of the snotty
Hollywood versions with very,
very important work
to do, many more are
very happy to have you
come and don't expect
you to walk away with art.
They simply want to have a
discussion with you about it.
All of them, however,
should be able to answer
any of the aforementioned
questions without blinking.
The most important thing
is to open a dialogue.
Don't be intimidated
by a gallery.
Don't be afraid to
ask any questions.
Regardless of how
uneducated it may seem,
it is how you become educated.
If you find a piece you like
that you keep coming back
to, then you have to
asked questions about it
and are satisfied
with the answer
and it is within your
means, acquire that piece."
I talk about the sting
of art, and the sting
of art that I'm referring to is
when you walk into a gallery,
or you see something
that someone did,
a sculpture somewhere,
and you love it.
And you go home and
you think about it,
you can't stop thinking about
it, and this goes on for weeks,
and then you go back
to buy and it's gone.
That sting that you feel
is really important,
and I'll tell you why.
Because it gives you a
compass, a true north.
So when you come across
a piece of art again,
and you feel that way,
you'll know that feeling
and you won't wait.
You'll grab that one.
Acclimating yourself, not just
being excited in the moment,
is really important,
but that takes time,
and it takes going to those
places that I mentioned.
"When you have acquired your
first piece of work, stop.
Many first timers-- and we
run into this all the time--
want to run out
and buy something
for every damn wall
in their house.
That's not collecting,
that's buying.
Collectors acquire work
and, despite the fact
that money is changing hands
and technically a purchase
is being made, please remember
that you buy a toaster
and you acquire a piece of art.
It's not just a fancy
word change either.
It is representational
of a slow process
in which you get acclimated
to your tastes in art.
Allowing time in between
acquisition sheds light
on the great effect art has
on your living environment
and your mood.
New collectors
should use this time
to gauge their comfort
with art and gain
an understanding
of the work's value
after the money
has changed hands.
Allowing time to pass will
guide you in future acquisitions
and save you from buying
pieces you will never
have a relationship with.
Learn about artists.
You have longed for
a way to reconcile
despair, hope,
hatred, love, regret,
and beauty, and their work
can be your deliverance.
Collect art.
It is how history was recorded.
It will make you look smarter.
It is sexier than flat
screen television.
Make an effort to
understand your new works,
your new artwork's purpose.
Make it a priority.
It may take time, and it may
never fully reveal itself,
but it is the pursuit that
will keep you interested in it.
Look at your
collection as it grows.
Appreciate it, as it
says more about you
than you can about
yourself, and it does so
with a better voice."
These artists are here
pouring themselves out
onto these canvases.
The more you know
about these artists
and the reason they're
painting what they're painting
will help you equate value.
So when you walk into a
gallery and you think,
god $100,000 for that piece.
That's insane.
Maybe, but you'll never
know until you find out.
What is this artist's history?
Why is this going on?
Why am I looking at this, and
why am I looking at it here?
Do I want this in my own life?
Is it worth that much to me?
Only you will know
that, but you're
going to know what if you get
out there and ask questions.
It's a pivotal part of our life,
and understanding the story
sometimes can be a great
way to equate value,
but it also can be entertaining.
You might find out
something you didn't know.
And this is for Claire that
works for us at the gallery.
Caravaggio was a
great master painter.
Brilliant.
But what many people don't
know about Caravaggio
is Caravaggio was quite
excellent at murder as well.
But when you figure
these things out,
it gives you a story to
tell when people come over
to your house.
Now if you're looking at a
Caravaggio in your own home,
well done.
But in truth, it could be
a little bit more basic
than that.
For instance, just understanding
the technical aspect
of how something was
created so that when
people come over and go,
you spent what on what?
You can go, wait
a minute, here's
what really happened
with this piece.
And you will seem way
sexier, way more educated,
because you know exactly
how that piece was done.
And I'm going to use
my-- this is horrible--
but I'm going to use my
own work as an example,
because you could look at
this piece, which you've been
looking at for a while now,
and go, oh, well that's pretty,
but it's how it was completed
that's important to me.
I actually think that landscape
in my work is secondary.
What's more important to
me in my own personal work
is the evolution of the
color, how it was built,
and I'll give you an example
of that, because this is
how a painting starts for me.
Red.
Simple layout.
Nothing fancy.
Little blue, little yellow.
More blue, more yellow,
more red, never green, and I
never used green once
in this whole painting.
It was built color,
layered transparently one
over the next.
No different than how old
televisions used to work.
It's an old, old way of
painting called glazing.
It's nothing fancy.
It's nothing new.
I simply adopted it
to a technique that
felt really good to
me, and it allowed
me to create a green that was
much better than any green I
could ever get out of a tube.
Why is that important?
Because I don't really care
about much more in life
than the act of painting.
I want to paint, because
it feels good to me.
And I have found
a way that makes
me paint the same
painting over itself
10, 15, 20 times just
with different color
and different opacities.
The technical aspect of
how it's done is important,
but not all work looks
like a landscape.
Some work that we start to
get excited about is neon.
But if you talk
to the artist, he
will give you a
complete understanding
of how this relates
to the human psyche
and interaction with
technology in our life,
and its pivotal to
hear him talk about it.
Just being around him and
hearing and talk about it,
it's infectious, and that's why
you need to go where art is.
Here's another example.
This is a Chris
Dufala piece, and this
is a great narrative on what's
going on in the world today.
So this piece is,
look, like they're
made out of wood and
steel, but they're all
made out of ceramic.
It's all earthware.
And it's a narrative on the
fact that these things are all
sitting around in a
waiting room somewhere,
because no one
uses them anymore.
Right?
They're desperate.
They need some help.
JD Hansen.
Sculptor artist.
If you got to know
her, she might tell you
that she's also a
trained fighter pilot.
She's never been
in the military.
That's her hobby.
I always found that fascinating,
because it's a very long road
to be able to do that.
But what's more important about
this particular piece of work
and the thing that
I like the most
and what I learned as I
came to understand it more,
was this piece called
Grief and the Gardener
was about one woman's
reconciliation
of the death of her
husband and how she
turned to gardening as therapy.
And so her connection
to the earth
was pretty literal
in this sense,
and if you read the
story and you know JD,
she tells it with
such great passion
that it creates a connection
with this work that
is undeniable.
An installation
piece in Seattle.
"Just Be Your Selfie."
You could take this a
million different ways,
but this thing blew up
the internet in our area
for a really long time.
And so it's a narrative
on how you live your life.
Just be your selfie.
Do you want to just
be your selfie?
Is that who you are or
are you someone else?
It questions who you are.
What's the difference between
your real life and the life
you live online?
Does there need to
be a difference?
Are you selling yourself as
something that you're not?
Are you actually representing
yourself as you are?
People were taking pictures
in front of this all day
long, as you might imagine.
But that was hardly
the point of it.
So one of the pieces that
I really, really love
is from an called-- his
name is Ben Britton,
and Ben is a frenetic thinker.
He talks very fast, he's
really exciting to talk to,
he's very energetic.
And one of the
things that I always
talk about when I talk
about Ben Britton's work
is that he has a way of
putting his brain right out
onto a piece of
canvas, and he does it
in such a brilliant way.
And so for a minute before
I show you this slide,
I want you to think
about a wedding.
What's that look like?
Black and white, flowers,
people, movement, happiness,
joy, tears are flowing, but it's
an exciting time in your life.
It's one of the
most exciting times
two people that come
together can have,
and it's this just infusion
of joy and color and movement
and shapes and Ben was
just great at putting it
into a painting.
This painting is called
"This is Your Wedding Day."
It's one of my
favorite pieces of art
from this particular artist,
and when I saw the title
I needed nothing else.
Yes that's exactly
how I felt. There's
excitement and shape
and color and movement.
It just goes on and on and on.
And it's like this
explosion, and the whole day
you're just thinking, wow,
this is like my wedding day,
and you wake up the next
morning and you go, man,
I don't remember
anything from that day.
Well, you don't need to.
It's supposed to be
remembered in this way,
and Ben knows that, and so
he put it down on canvas.
And so the home
where this resides,
it's right in this
entryway, so they walk in
and every day they'll remember
this excitement that they felt,
and that's what art
should feel like.
That sting?
This is what it
should feel like.
So I'm here talking to you
today simply for one reason,
and I've covered a lot of
things I wanted to cover,
but the basic reason I
want to talk to you--
and I have to thank
you for inviting me
here-- is so that your home
doesn't look like this.
I want it to look like this.
Thank you.
[APPLAUSE]
Any questions from the audience?
AUDIENCE: You made a number
of statements about prints,
but I hope you
draw a distinction
between the kind of
mass produced prints you
were talking about and showing
and limited edition serigraphs.
ERIK HALL: Absolutely, and
thanks for the question.
There is a definite distinction
and, in fact, the art market
now is-- the last
stat I saw on it
was that 3% of the
art market is actually
being driven by
the print business,
and that print business is
actually very limited edition
lithographs.
There's a fancy word
out there called giclee,
and that's just a made up
word, and people, galleries
will toss that word
out there it's just
a fancy word that was made
up in the '70s for four color
printing.
That's the kind of stuff that
I want people to kind of like
understand and know that there's
really not a whole lot of value
in that.
Lithograph runs signed by
an authorized print house,
by an artist, have a
great deal of value.
They trade on the open market.
And, like I said,
they drive about 3%
of the art market,
the auction market,
so if you do any
kind of research,
you will see that there's
Warhol's and there are still
Picasso's trading out there that
were from the authorized houses
that were signed, numbered, and
they have the stamp and seal
of the authorized print house.
So the more you
understand about that,
the more that distinction
actually becomes quite clear.
Yes, thank you, there
is a definite difference
between the two.
AUDIENCE: But there
are artists who
work in giclee as a medium and
have limited edition, signed
runs.
ERIK HALL: They do.
That's true.
AUDIENCE: Giclees.
CLIFF: They do.
That's true.
Let me be clear that the
artist doesn't actually
work in giclee.
That's not a thing.
That's four-color printing.
So what I'm referring to is the
difference between a painting
that may be-- and
what I'm encouraging,
really, is that if say a giclee
print is 500 bucks that you
take that 500 bucks,
instead of buying
that that mass-produced print,
that you go to visit, say,
an artist's studio
and find something
that hits you really well.
AUDIENCE: Not all giclees
are mass produced.
I understand that it's
a technological process,
but there are artists
who I consider
fine artists who work
in a digital medium,
and they physical output of
it is a limited edition giclee
that might only be 100 copies.
ERIK HALL: Right.
AUDIENCE: And they
sign each one.
ERIK HALL: Right.
AUDIENCE: So just
the fact that it's
a giclee as opposed to
a lithograph, I think,
is not important.
ERIK HALL: Right
and, to be clear,
I'm not saying that
giclees are a bad thing.
I've actually reproduced my
own work for a friend of mine
on a certain occasion.
They couldn't afford an
original piece of art.
I desperately wanted them
to have a piece of my work,
because they were in a
crisis in their own life,
and I thought that that would
be uplifting thing for them.
And so I did have one done.
They called it giclee.
It's just four-color printing.
Lithographs are done in much
larger runs than giclees even.
Giclees you can
do in anything you
want, because of the
type of print that it is.
Having said that, I'm not
really specifically talking
about the type, whether it's a
lithograph, serigraph, giclee.
Moreover I'm talking about the
volume that it's produced in
and whether that
volume was produced
by an authorized house.
So the distinction there
just lies in the rights.
Who has the right to do it
and how much were allotted,
and were those done well.
A reputable printing house is
going to do really great job.
The physical manifestation
of digital art
is something that we're going
to contend with more and more,
and I think that there's
a great market for it
as long as it's
done in limited runs
so that the product
itself isn't diluted.
That's all I'm saying.
Thank you.
CLIFF: And I think that raises
an interesting question too
in the photography space.
You have the large
prints, you'll
change it to black and white
or do a certain crop of it
and then sell it as
a completely new run.
ERIK HALL: So what artists
do with the reproduction
of their own work, I think, is
part of the artistic process,
and I would never hold
that against anyone.
All I'm saying is that I
would encourage someone,
that if they wanted to buy
an original piece of artwork
to educate themselves and
make sure that this is truly
at original piece of artwork.
If it's a physical manifestation
of a digital print, then
that's the original
form that was
presented to the public and,
as such, that's original work.
But when you go to a place
like Bed, Bath and Beyond
or some other place,
it becomes less art,
it becomes decoration,
and I'm simply
just trying to get people
to avoid decoration
in favor of art.
AUDIENCE: I don't really
know how to ask this.
I'm sort of stuck on this
idea of art versus decoration.
Like, why does it make sense
to put art in people's homes?
Like that is decoration.
It's kind of a weird-- to me,
it's kind of a weird way for us
as a society to be
valuing art as to have it
on the wall in your house
or something, like just you,
one person?
I don't know-- I feel
like that actually
is a good place for
decoration, because it's just
like furnishing your room.
ERIK HALL: I think I touched
on it-- first of all,
thank you for the question.
As I understand
it, you're asking
why isn't a home a good
place for decoration
and the difference between art
and decoration in that regard?
AUDIENCE: Yeah,
maybe the other way.
Like why is a home a
good place for art?
ERIK HALL: I think the home
is the best place for art.
AUDIENCE: Why?
ERIK HALL: For me
specifically, and that's
the only way I can talk about
it, to go with what I know
about it, and every piece that's
in our home has meaning to us,
and it surpasses the
monetary value of the piece.
It has something
poignant about it
that speaks to
something that happened
in our life or a relationship
we had with an artist.
Just recently we
purchased a piece
from an artist that
was really, really
special to us, Cheryl Engstrom.
A sculpture piece titled
"The Paris Wheel."
It's a found object wheel.
It's got letter openers
that were made out
of bronze as the people
riding the wheel,
and it's a pivotal piece.
And it became even
more pivotal to us,
because Cheryl passed
away four days ago,
and so the home is a good
place for decoration, sure,
but the art that you place in
there to decorate your home,
it needs, in my opinion,
to speak to you at a higher
level than something that you
said, oh, that looks nice,
as you were passing
the decorative pillows
section of the store.
Like something that has meaning
to you, that's a deep meaning,
and I'm not saying
that that needs
to be something that came
from a gallery or a museum.
That can simply be something
that you saw after you just
had a heart-wrenching
moment that was laying
by the side a street, a stick.
Put it up in your house,
decorate it in some way,
and when you look at it, let
it remind you of something that
was important to you.
That's all I'm saying.
Just please try not
to equate those things
that you see in a store
next to decorative pillows
or glasses as something that's
going to be meaningful to you
in the long run.
That's decoration.
That stick, in my
opinion, because it
has a value that's bigger
than the cost, is now art.
Does that make sense?
AUDIENCE: Yeah.
CLIFF: And also it
is a question, should
the art be publicly on display?
Are you preventing
people from seeing it
by it being in your
house, just taking away--
many great works of art
are in private collections,
much to the consternation of
the people that go to museums.
ERIK HALL: Right.
That's a question that comes
up a lot in our industry,
and there's a lot of dialogue
going back and forth on it.
I am a subscriber,
and I firmly believe,
like many in our industry
do, that artwork is borrowed.
You don't own it.
You rent it almost.
You pay for it, you have
it, but you have a lifespan
that pales in comparison
to a piece of art,
and that's why art winds up in
museums or in estates that's
passed on through families
and eventually winds up,
hopefully, taken care
of in a public space.
But the reality of it is
that some pieces do go unseen
for hundreds of
years, and that's
why when a piece
does surface again,
it becomes such a big
deal in our community.
But I'm a firm
believer, and many of us
are, that artwork
is simply borrowed.
I know all of our artwork
will be eventually given
to someone else, and I'm hoping
that we do well enough in life
that we're able to
set up a public space
for that collection to be
viewed, if for no other reason
so that I can feel that someone
else might feel what I felt
when we purchased that work.
AUDIENCE: Do you think there's
such a thing as bad art?
ERIK HALL: Definitely.
AUDIENCE: What makes
something bad art?
ERIK HALL: There's two
ways to answer that for me.
One of them is the
technical aspect.
I'm a painter myself,
so I look at art,
and I'm very
discerning about it.
I think it's a great question,
because understanding
good from bad might
be the very thing that
saves your investment if
you're buying as a commodity.
So that's why I say don't
ever buy as a commodity,
because you're safe.
Even if it's a bad piece of
art, you like it, you love it,
and therefore its
investment is safe.
Having said that,
technically speaking--
and I'm still learning to
look at, say, abstract art,
for instance-- but I
can recognize things
very specifically now
about abstract art that
lets me know that
this is a new painter.
And I'm not going
to say it's bad.
I'm going to say it's new,
someone that needs to progress
a little bit in their career.
And part of the
gallery's role is
to be a really great
filter for the public
so that that trust can
be developed over time,
where you know that
we've already vetted
a lot of this art for you.
You vetted us over time,
we vet the art constantly,
and that way when
you come in and you
have that visceral
response to something, then
you know that it's safe.
You could buy this, it's
been vetted through us.
The world doesn't agree on this,
but we do, and if you trust us,
that kind of helps
it out a little bit.
But, technically speaking,
like with an abstract painting,
there'll be muddy parts in it.
And by muddy I mean where things
happened while the paint was
wet, and it turned this
kind of brown color,
and the composition
was kind of poor.
I'm a big believer in the
rule of odds, paintings being
dissected into thirds as
a way to present them,
in a way that gives you a
center line when you look at it.
There's a bunch
of little things.
Sometimes, for me, it's just
the technical aspect of it.
Painting can be
great, but I think
if there was a painterly mark
in it that just didn't sit well
with me, that to me is
going to make it bad,
but bad is kind of a tough word.
And most of the time
I come across what
you're calling bad artwork,
it's just new artwork.
Someone that needs to
develop a little bit more.
We see it all the time, and
instead of telling people no,
we always try to
take that opportunity
to coach them up a little bit.
Sometimes it's tough love,
but it helps them evolve.
So eventually that bad
artist becomes really good.
CLIFF: I had
another question too
about the role of names
and supply and demand
in the expanding internet age.
You have dvnr.com.
Anyone can throw
up a piece of art.
They get the likes on
it and the popularity,
but at the same time, if
you were to ask somebody
on the street, name a
really great sculptor
or visual artist
or glass artist,
there's only a few names,
and it's a crowded space.
How is that evolving
as the years go on?
ERIK HALL: Well, first of
all, I love the internet
as a medium to promote artwork.
I think it's a really,
really tough occupation
to exploit for a
living, first of all,
for anyone that's in
it, on any level of it,
and it favors the few.
And so the people that rest
in the middle and the bottom
are always kind
of scraping along.
I mentioned earlier that
sometimes just staying
in the business is
succeeding in the business,
and that's kind of
what I mean by that.
So the question of,
say, places like DVNR.
Great landing spot
for people that can
get an opinion on something.
But those places are
really no different
than any other platform
that we use to promote,
even if it's not art.
Whether it's ourself or
our vacation or our kid,
you know, these are
all places for people
to go and kind of
form an opinion.
The more places you see
it, the better, the broader
the audience gets.
And I think for that reason
those platforms are really
super successful,
and I personally
don't have a problem
with them even though I'm
in the business of selling art.
I think that a broad
awareness of art in general,
in all of its forms, is
really, really important
and becoming kind
of a lifeline--
a financial lifeline--
for many artists.
You sell a few
paintings here and there
and keep that studio rent paid.
CLIFF: And how do
you guide people
towards the lesser
known names, like things
that aren't household names as
they walk into your gallery?
ERIK HALL: We get
personally excited
about a lot of different art,
but the gallery represents
30 artists, and we're
really excited about them,
and not all of them
are household names.
As a matter of fact, few of
them are household names,
but that's the goal.
We're trying to make them
household names, because we
feel strongly about them,
because we've vetted them,
because we've been
to their studios,
and we see how they paint,
because we understand
what it means to them.
It's not just painting
to make money.
They're not producing a product.
They're producing a
piece of themselves.
It's important.
They would do it even if
they didn't get paid for it.
When it comes to putting those
artists in front of people,
I don't ever get more
passionate than that.
I really want people
to feel it, and it's
got to start with
me as the dealer.
But those artists still
need to be properly vetted.
We need to understand
what it is they're doing
and why they're doing it.
It helps us equate value
to it and make sure
that we set the market right.
One of the things we
do with those artists
is we help them
kind of life plan.
I am coming to you today.
I don't have a college degree.
I learned what I
learned the hard way.
I found my way into art in
the most oddest of paths.
I come from two military people.
My dad was in the Navy,
my mother in the Army.
Their ideas about art, although
not their fault, were limited.
And so I had to kind of
fight my way into it.
There's a misperception
about us as gallery owners
that we're silver spoon kids,
and that couldn't be further
from the truth.
Military family.
Both of Amy's parents
are educators,
and you know there's not a lot
of money in those occupations,
but what we try to do
is go about what we
can using two basic principles.
Just hard work and--
I have a saying
that I use and its
spend what you have.
If you have time, spend time.
If you have money, spend money.
Well, in the beginning
we didn't have any money,
so we spent time.
We built all of our places.
We have a little bit more
money now, so we invest in art.
We'll buy a piece
every once in awhile,
but-- and I'm deviating
a little bit--
but the question specifically
was getting those new artists
and getting them to
be household names.
And in truth I'm hoping that all
of our artists can be that way,
and I'm a big fan of putting
my stamp on them once I believe
in them, but takes me awhile.
And we've been wrong before,
if I'm being perfectly honest.
We brought art in
that we thought
was really, really
great only to find out
the it was missing parts.
There was something
wrong with it ultimately,
whether it was a technical
aspect or a discrepancy
just with the
artist's intentions.
And we've let those
artists go very quickly.
I have no problem
with cutting that tie,
because I owe that
to our collectors.
Round about kind
of wordy answer,
but that's where we're
at with that one.
CLIFF: Thank you very much
for speaking at Google.
Thanks.
ERIK HALL: Thanks.
[APPLAUSE]
