[music plays]
>>Dr. Dagni Bredesen:
Welcome, everyone,
to this conversation about
undergraduate research projects.
I think those of you who have
come have had experience
and know, I know I have a
list of questions to ask
the panelists if it
doesn't get addressed.
But I'm really excited the new
life that has been breathed into
undergraduate research, with the
Honors College and with the
task force, the Undergraduate
Research Task Force.
And so, I'm going to turn it
over now to, your name again?
No, Dean Richard England.
>>Dr. Richard England:
Right.
Thank you very much, Dagni.
I'm not sure, I had thought that
maybe what we would do,
and this may be being a little
too honors-y, rather than having
a formal panel, because almost
all of us, and I'm sure,
in fact, all of us are involved
in undergraduate research
in different ways, that we might
speak from where we are,
if that sounds reasonable.
Unless you needed to use the
machine.
You're all happy?
Alright, and maybe what we would
do, just so that we are all on
the same page, many of you may
already know each other,
but we're throwing
ourselves, you know, quite
self-consciously from around the
campus, is if you could just
give your name and your
department, and then one quick,
good experience you've had with
undergraduate research, if any.
If you haven't got one, just
say, "It's all been bad,"
right, or "Move on."
Shall we start?
Alright, I'll start just to
give you a general idea.
Richard England, Pine Honors
College, also in philosophy.
One good undergraduate research
experience I had is when a
student of mine, of my prior
institution, wrote a thesis
on Camus in French.
And I had to read it for 40
pages, and it was awkward
because I haven't read
French for 15 years,
and it was hard.
But then, he went on to get a
job at KPMG in Switzerland
on the strength of his French,
so that was kind of nice.
I don't remember the thesis, I
don't like Camus, so.
>>Dr. Bragni Bredesen:
I'm Dagni Bredesen,
and I'm director of Faculty
Development.
And I do want to thank Krishna
and Wanda Kay for all of the
work that they've done, in terms
of logistics.
I should have said that earlier.
I teach in the English
department, and I'm an
affiliated faculty member
of women's studies.
And my good experiences with
undergraduate research has been
coming up with really
fantastic proposals,
that do not actually realize
their full potential.
So, that's the negative part.
But I mean, I'm good at coming
up with projects.
But one of the reasons I'm here,
can we also turn it that way,
too, is because I'm really
interested for suggestions about
how we can equip them and
motivate them, so that they will
take ownership of the project,
and it does not become
our research assistants,
or whatever happens,
you know, and stuff.
Which, that hasn't also not
happened, but anyways,
so that would be the main thing
that I'm grappling with:
how to pitch an assignment that
they can do, how to equip them
to do it, and how to help them
achieve ownership.
Which, I think might be a
little harder in the arts and
humanities than perhaps the
sciences, so.
>>Dr. Mark McGuire:
Okay, Mark McGuire, chemistry
department, chair of the
chemistry department.
I've been here for nearly 30
years, and from the word "go,"
undergraduate research has been
an integral and, pretty much
required part of the chemistry
facult and student experience.
I don't know if I have one
particular story, but I think
most faculty will tell you that
they're just amazed to see
a student being transformed
from someone who's had
formal lab experience, and then
they get into a research lab,
and they discover that things
are a lot more complicated and
nuanced than they discovered in
the canned labs that they were
doing, no matter how complex
they were in the chemistry lab.
So, it's gratifying to see
students figure out that it's
hard to open this container,
and this particular liquid is
hard to pour, this one burns
if you're not careful.
[laughing]
You don't know that by reading
it in a book or watching it
in a video that these
kinds of things happen.
Or something smells really
bad, and maybe you
shouldn't smell it.
It may not hurt you, but no
one wants to smell that,
so please don't do that again.
>>Dr. Richard England:
And there's no worksheet
with a box saying, "Discovery."
[laughing]
Alright.
>>Dr. Stefan Eckert:
I'm Stefan Eckert, in music.
I have not been involved very
much in undergraduate research
because I'm a music theorist,
which is something
like a grammarian in
English, but not really.
But teaching, reading, writing,
understanding music.
The students take my part
as more a necessary evil
in their education.
So, they really come to
learn an instrument, and not
to learn more to do
what I'm doing.
Also, I don't have majors.
That music theory
major doesn't exist.
So, I have had some
interactions, some positive,
some rather sad ones, in terms
of being basically a resource.
But I'm trying, actually, I'm
trying to figure a course,
intro an analysis course, into a
performance and analysis course,
which would then take them from
the performance angle, and could
show them more of what my field
could contribute to their work.
So, I'm here, really, mostly
for finding, continuing to
think about how I can broaden
into that direction.
[no dialogue]
>>Dr. Susan Longley: 
Oh, so I'm Susan Longley,
and I'm an assistant professor
in the psychology department.
And probably one of my most
gratifying experiences
was when I taught
a methods class.
I had everyone do their
own individual project.
It was a proposal.
I didn't make them take it
all the way to the end.
And one student turned it
into an honors project,
and it was a very
interesting project, so.
>>Dr. Michael Menze:
Michael Menze,
I'm from biological sciences.
I have to admit that it's part
of my selfishness to promote
undergrad research because
they are running my lab.
And without them, I wouldn't be
able to actually achieve
and accomplish what I think a
scholar should accomplish.
So honestly, they are kind of
in between research assistants
and taking ownership of their
project, because I have to
give them very clear projects,
that I cannot just let them
run wild because the resources
have to come from somewhere.
And if I'm funded by the
National Science Foundation,
they will have to work
under the ideas of that grant.
I cannot just tell them "pick
whatever you want, cure cancer."
[laughing]
So, they get a really
specific project.
Most rewarding?
We had a couple, together
with Mary and on my own,
papers that we wrote that were
published and peer reviewed.
[unclear dialogue] was first,
also an undergraduate student,
and Matthew was up
at Northwestern University.
I mean, we have a good placing
rate, if they are survivors,
which of course, we use.
So, I mean, not everybody does.
[laughing] 
>>Dr. Mary Konkle:
I'm Mary Konkle,
Department of Chemistry.
And my experiences with
undergraduate research
has been very intentional.
I took a post-doc to do that,
and I'm sort of part of the age
when it was very, very expected,
and part of your training
really needs to be
that in chemistry.
So, my most rewarding times are
when you take students that
are really not necessarily
honors students, but maybe B, C
students, and they get involved
in research, and they really
reach upwards because of that.
And particularly at a
comprehensive university,
I feel like that's a huge
service that we can do to the
intellectual community, that
isn't going to get done
other places, and that's
really important.
And so, part of the reason I
came here today is really to
see if we can transfer some
of these models that worked
in chemistry for quite a long
time to other disciplines,
which I think we can.
I do think that, like we have an
expectation as scientists that
they'll be with us
for multiple semesters.
We don't expect to get very
much done in one semester.
So, it's pretty common for
students to stay in our labs
for five, six, seven semesters.
And so, it's really, by the
end, it's a shared intellectual
property by the end.
It doesn't start that
way, but it gets there.
>>Dr. Caroline Simpson:
Oh, well.
[laughing]
I'm Caroline Simpson,
I'm in the art department.
I teach art history to
undergraduate art majors,
as well as non-majors.
And I guess my research
projects with students on a
graduate level have involved
helping them sort of
develop a kind of path of
kind of intellectual and
kind of critical inquiry that
would inform their work.
On an undergraduate level, it's
a little bit more difficult to
do that because the
undergraduates
don't have committees.
And so, the graduate students
all have committees.
And so, it becomes a way of kind
of mentoring them and sort of
grooming them for that process.
It's a little bit like Stefan
where, you know, art history is
kind of like a big old pill
that you need to swallow
if you're a studio major.
Just persuading them of
the value of art history
is a very important step.
I spend a lot of time simply
training them how to do
the basics of library research
because so many of them
come to college without
that kind of experience.
And so, just getting them
aware of source materials
that might possibly shape their
ideas and their approach
to art making.
But then, with the art history
majors, I've had quite a bit of
interaction with developing
research papers, where they've
presented at the national
conference or at undergraduate
art history conferences.
And then also, too, developing
curatorial projects.
So, that the students
come up with the concept
for an exhibition.
They go out and find a venue,
such as the Indigo Gallery in
Champaign or The
Vault in Tuscola.
They spend time reading and
researching sort of curatorial
practice, best practice.
They get a sense of
how that functions.
They develop their sort of
theme for the exhibition.
They select the work, they
publicize it, they install it.
They put together a reception,
and then they write a kind of
reflective paper about the
whole process, after the fact.
I've done that, what, three
times here, and then prior
to coming to EIU, I sort of
did similar types of projects
in a city, where the students
could be placed in museums
and cultural centers.
So, I'm very much interested in
developing for art students
a certain level of practical
application and sort of
pre-professional development
as being a kind of aspect
of research, as well.
I guess that's my
meandering explanation.
>>Dr. Lynne Curry:
I'm Lynne Curry.
I'm a professor in the
history department.
I've been here for 20 years.
It's official, I got my pin.
So, 20 years.
And I have been involved in a
lot of undergraduate research
over the years in various
formats, whether it's something
we officially call research
in an honors thesis, or just
various components of research
that are incorporated into
our curriculum, so just part
of my regular teaching.
Sometimes I have a
hard time separating
teaching and research.
You know, in my head it's all
sort of, it all goes together.
But if I had to pick just sort
of a recent, good experience
to talk about, it would have
to be, we have about six
undergraduates right now doing
honors research projects
in the major.
And so, they're at, you know,
it's a three-semester process,
so their at various stages.
And two of these students have
chosen topics in the history of
medicine, which is one of
my fields that I rarely
get to teach and I rarely
interest students in.
And so, the fact that I
had these two students,
and we were able to craft their
undergraduate honors research
around a history of medicine
topic, it's just been
wonderful for me.
I feel re-energized by
introducing them to some of
the literature and some
of the possibilities.
It's just been wonderful.
>>Dr. Betty Smith: 
Okay, I'm Betty Smith,
in the Department
of Geology/Geography.
I'm a geographer, and I
focus more on the cultural
side of geography.
I guess one of my objectives
in coming here is to learn from
other faculty research
experiences and also, too,
I'd like to take my faculty
student research to the level
of being able to co-publish.
And I haven't been
able to do that so far.
I've had students that
have prepared posters,
and we've taken posters and
presented papers at conferences
that has resulted from their
research, so I've been
happy about that.
I'd say my student
research is intermittent.
It sort of goes in
spits and spurts.
In the last few years, I've
been focusing on my teaching
and getting my courses online,
and doing some other things,
And I'm now ready to go
back into my research.
I have a student I'll be
working with in the fall.
And so, I'm interested in sort
of getting back into that
in a big way.
So, a successful experience
would be a few years back,
I took two students
out to California.
I was working on a project,
sort of a long term project,
having to do with what's called
the Ponderosa Way Fire Trail,
which was developed by the CCC
in the Sierra Nevada Mountains
to protect high timber
in California.
It was proposed to be
an 800-mile long trail.
Parts of it were
completed, parts were not.
And it's a topic that has
not been published on.
And even those that are experts
on the CCC work in California,
when I presented it at
conferences, I had one guy say,
"I've never heard of this," you
know.
So, that's really good
news when I hear that.
But anyway, we did a GPSing
project on 52 miles of that
trail, from about
Mt. Lassen Park south.
And the students had spent a
week, we did field work for a
week out in California in
August, and then came back.
They prepared two separate
posters and presented posters.
And I think it's difficult,
as someone said here, that
it's hard to do research
in one semester or two.
I think you need probably
three, two or three at least,
to do justice.
So anyway, that's an example
of one of my [unclear dialogue]
I think Lynne mentioned that she
saw me present on, I had taken
a student down to do research in
Ecuador, and doing a little
project on the Inca trail
up in the Andes Mountains.
But I'm trying to focus more
on domestic things right now
It's just so hard to
go international.
It just gets harder and harder.
So anyway, oh, and then I'm at
19 years, I'm almost 20!
I don't have my pin yet.
I think I'm getting
my pin this summer.
[laughing]
>>Dean Richard England: 
Thank you.
>>Dr. Jeanne Lord:
I'm Jeanne Lord,
associated with the College of
Business and Applied Sciences.
I've been here 15 years,
but it's not official yet.
I've got to get a pin.
But I've, for the last couple of
years, been leading the
initiative honor to
graduate research in the
College of Business
and Applied Sciences.
And so, that's one of
the reasons I came.
I wanted to share, well, it's
positive, I think, and I wanted
to share some of the things that
we are doing in the college.
And one thing, Dean
England knows about this,
our scholarship, it's
called SURF program,
Scholarship and Undergraduate
Research First.
And it describes research in a
very sort of non-threatening way
because students, they're like
"Oh my gosh, research!"
You know, so it gives a very,
like creating a website,
service learning, gathering
data on people's opinions,
business plans.
So, things that sound like
what people in our academic
disciplines might be used to
hearing, so that they feel like
"Oh, okay.
You know, I'm doing that even,
so that's research?"
And then, we opened it up like,
you know Mary, you mentioned
it might not be the A student.
And so, we did the 2.75 or
above GPA, so it's inclusive.
It doesn't have to be, you
know, always that A student
that stands out.
And then, they would write a
little reflective paper on their
project or research, creative
activity, whatever it might be.
And then, perhaps present in
a poster format, so speak
to an internal or
external audience.
And then, we would give 250
dollars to the faculty mentor
and 250 to the student.
And then, Dean England,
as he discovered when he
saw this, was that he was
going to match the funds,
which, thank you, Dean.
Well, he agreed, and then went,
"Oh, I see here-" 
>>Dr. Richard England:
Well I haven't had to
do it this year yet.
>>Dr. Jeanne Lord:
Yeah, yeah.
[laughing]
Yeah, you don't have to do that
yet.
So anyways, we are excited
about our SURF program.
And then, for the first
time, April 23, we're
doing a college-wide
research symposium.
So, we'll bring the School of
Business, School of Technology,
family and consumer sciences,
military sciences, all together
for a college-wide
symposium in Lumpkin Hall.
And as of today, we
have 20 submissions.
So, and they have the
option, they can do
either, well, they can do both,
actually.
They can present orally,
they can present
with a poster, or
they could do both.
And so, it'll just be a one day
kind of thing, and so we're
really excited to see how
that's going to work out.
School of Technology really was
the leader because they always
did a research
symposium, and I said,
"What if we take
that college wide?"
And they were
willing to do that,
and I really appreciated that.
And then, there's a faculty
member in the School of
Technology, Isaac Slaven, who's
also developing a college-wide
research journal, so that
undergraduates and graduates
can publish their work in.
So, we're excited about
those initiatives.
And then, we've also created a
website, whereby we've listed
in our various academic
disciplines the students
and the title of their
research project.
And then, we also have a list
of all the faculty research
interests, so that students
can go online and see
"Oh, maybe that sounds like
something I might want to do."
So, we've got a number of
things that we're doing.
And the other thing, we have
an honors research course.
It's cross-listed, but we're
opening it up to honors
and non-honors.
And it's going to be taught
in family and consumer sciences,
they'll be the
first unit to teach it.
But School of Business
students can take it,
School of Technology students
can also take it.
So, the college agreed that,
okay, let's give this a try,
see what we can get.
So, we're excited about the
undergraduate research course.
>>Dr. Christopher Mitchell:
I'm Chris Mitchell,
I'm interim associate dean
of Arts and Humanities.
And I'm kind of like
Jeanne, in that I'm
looking at the metapicture.
And we're actually kind of
exploring something like that,
that you're doing right now.
We have a pretty energetic
sub-groups, members at the table
that are discussing ideas and
ways to better communicate
all of the stuff that is already
going on within the college.
We're discovering that there
is an amazing diversity and an
amazing mosaic there.
Speaking for myself and my
home department, I come out of
theatre, as some of you
may know, and we've had a
pretty nice tradition for,
we just celebrated our
10th anniversary.
We do a symposium every
year, it's an interdisciplinary
symposium with English.
And it takes aspects of the
discipline that are sometimes
represented in
conferences, sometimes not.
But we make it a conference
style event, and we
train students to do
conference quality papers.
And most importantly, how to
talk to an interdisciplinary
audience, which is I think very,
very important to the arts and
humanities to
increase our reach.
So, that's a tradition I'm
very proud of that we're
keeping going.
>>Dr. Richard England:
Thank you.
>>Jay Bickford: 
I'm Jay Bickford,
in the elementary ed. and
middle level ed. program.
I've tried lots of different
undergraduate research projects
over the past five
or six years.
And some years, I'd start with
four or five undergraduate
researchers, and
none would finish.
And then, for whatever reason,
I've stumbled across some
things that seem to work, and
at least in my area.
And I've had a lot of students
finish and present at NCUR
or the Illinois Council
for the Social Studies.
And I've co-authored with
students and encourage them to
publish on their own,
and some of them have.
If there was one that I was
really, really proud of,
it was a lady,
Megan, five years ago.
She won the summer
undergraduate esearch
grant through the
Honors College.
And she was an undergrad.
She did this in the summer.
She student taught in the fall.
And she published two papers off
of this, and she was actually
offered a fellowship at
Penn State for a doctoral.
She's teaching now.
She's teaching up in Chicago,
up in the Chicagoland area,
but she was actually offered
a fellowship within a year.
I was shocked, I was shocked.
But she was exceptional.
She was anomalous, but yeah.
>>Dr. Sue Gosse:
Hi, Sue Gosse,
and I am an assistant
professor in the RN to BS
in nursing program.
We were an online program, so
there is another challenge
with encouraging
undergrad research.
In other positions I've had,
we, through our honors society,
would have
symposium research day.
In nursing, of course, we focus
on evidence based practice,
translational research.
And I'd like to do something
similar here, maybe in
connection with
the Science Fest.
Next year, target that to be
able to highlight some of the
work our students do in evidence
based practice, researching
problems in their own area.
They're all practicing nurses.
And that process of determining
the literature, looking at
what's been done, and
then setting a path
for solving a
clinical problem.
So, hopefully we can do that.
And I've had experience before
where we've done a webinar,
where we can pipe in everybody
from around the state.
You know, our students are
all around the state,
some in other states.
And that's a possibility, too,
you know, that they can present
their evidence based projects.
And I think that's something
that's needed, and is
really a great step in
their professional growth
to get that experience.
So, but I'm looking here for
just ideas and what's been
done in other colleges
and departments.
>>Dr. Dagni Bredesen:
Okay, can I clarify?
I just asked Richard if I
could, when I was talking
about undergraduate research
projects, it's the URSCA
that I'm referring to.
Like I can get students on a
limited project, and I've had
students that presented at NCUR
and stuff, but it's the URSCA
that I have found daunting.
You know, to get them to
that next level of investing.
>>Female Speaker:
When you say URSCA,
you mean the funding?
>>Dr. Dagni Bredesen:
Yeah, the undergraduate
research...
>>Dean Richard England: 
And I think, yeah, to be fair,
though, that's a very small
part of what's going on
at this university.
By necessity, because there
isn't enough money to give to
all of the interesting stuff
that's going on.
So, what I really appreciate is
hearing voices from across the
campus all at the same table,
which is pleasant and unusual.
And maybe with that in
view, I've got sort of two
guiding questions.
Why do we bother doing this?
What's the reason
that we're doing this, right?
Michael was very
forthright on that point.
[laughing]
But were not all in his
situation, or Mary's,
for that matter.
But then, what are the
opportunities and the
challenges that we face?
And maybe I can just ask
Jay, since you're here for the
College of Education, and that's
a college that maybe is not as
well represented sometimes
with undergraduate research.
Can you maybe address one
or two of those questions?
[no dialogue]
Why do you bother?
[laughing]
>>Dr. Jay Bickford: 
I don't know how I can
speak for everybody else.
You know, if I could speak to
some problem areas with it.
For the most part, our
students, when it comes to the
capstone project, our students
are student teaching.
And everything, as well it
should be, everything is dropped
their last semester, you
know, and that's difficult.
That's really difficult.
Part of it might be timing,
but just when it comes to
what I teach, for the most
part social studies ed. and
history ed., in the past, it was
the second to last semester
when they take this.
And now, it's the
third to last semester.
So, there's two semesters
before they student teach,
and I think that's
benefitted tremendously.
But part of the biggest reason
why bother, for me anyways, has
been, with the new state and
national initiatives in
education with Common Core,
these are ideal.
They're very strongly supported
by academics, but there's so
little curricular resources
out there for teachers,
and there's so much change
that's excepted that there's a
real want for research
in that area.
Not necessarily the human
subject research but, yeah.
I'm rambling, I know this
is just for my discipline,
but it fits.
And programmatically, not
that they made changes with
undergraduate research as the
intent, but it's worked out.
It's worked out to give
undergrad students more time.
It depends on the
students, though.
Like if they're dual cert
in special ed., they'll be at
Eastern longer, but they'll
have almost an el. ed. semester,
a special ed. semester,
el. ed., special ed.
I mean, those are intense,
intense semesters.
So, they may be with us for just
one semester, and then back
in a year, and there's a
lot of change with that.
Those are things
that complicate it.
>>Dr. Richard England:
And undergraduate research
is not built into any of the
accredited standards for the
highly accredited programs.
I think we're running into that.
>>Dr. Jay Bickford: 
But we have a lot of,
one real positive is that in
education, and I don't know
what it's like in other
disciplines when other students
apply for jobs after undergrad,
but if they were to apply in,
say, Oklahoma or Iowa,
they may have 30 people
for a specific position.
If a position opened up just
down the road at one of our
schools, they'll
have 600 applicants.
I mean, it's incredible what
they had, the competition.
And because of that, and I tell
the students, "If you want to
stand out, try
undergrad research.
You'll do this, this, and this.
They can fund you from grants."
But you know what I mean,
instead of saying in an
interview, which you may not
get, "I'd go above and beyond,"
this is a wonderful
way to show it.
And not that I'm trying to
scare them, but it does.
And for the most motivated
students, they're very serious.
They're very serious about that.
>>Dr. Mary Konkle:
The other thing that it does
provide is they now
have a reference who
really knows them, right?
And then, you can write a
reference letter that's much
different than "Yes, they sat
in my classroom, and they raised
their hand when I asked them to,
and they were good on exams."
It's a whole different reference
letter when you can say
"This is how they
solved problems.
This is how they
were persistent."
This is how...
And so, I think that's...
>>Dr. Jay Bickford:
And there's something
to the presentation.
I know in academia, people hear
so much more about
publications than presentations,
but for these kids, for these
college students, the idea of
standing in front of a room
with people who may not
care about their research.
You know what I mean?
Convincing them.
This is important because.
I think that's super
important for interviews.
I think that there's a lot
of lessons for this.
>>Dr. Richard England:
And perhaps from the
college, from Lumpkin, it's
a similar type of situation
in some respect.
>>Dr. Jeanne Lord: 
Well, first of all, we know,
we all know, that it
increases retention.
It increases students, which
is really critical for us to be
thinking about right now,
but research shows that
having students engage in
important research improves
retention and increases critical
thinking and problem solving,
as Mary said.
But it engages them
inside, perhaps,
or outside the classroom.
Like Lynne said, you sort of
think of that your teaching and
your research, that it goes
together.
So, it's also a benefit for
the faculty member, as well,
because you find it
re-energizing and informing
your teaching.
We also know that, going back
to thinking about integrative
learning, it improves the
academic, personal, and
professional development of the
student, and it's something that
they can put on their resume
or on their application
for graduate school.
So, these are all the things
that have really driven us,
and we keep those things in
mind as we are developing
these ideas about our research
symposium, and then
the SURF program.
>>Dr. Caroline Simpson:
Right, and you're in a
department full of people who
are practitioners, right?
>>Dr. Stefan Eckert: 
And I think we both have
the same problem.
So, we're kind of a
support, we're a kind of
service within our departments.
We're kind of a necessary
evil from this point of view.
>>Dr. Caroline Simpson:
We're not evil.
>>Dr. Stefan Eckert:
No, but we're trying to convince
them that actually what we
do, what we can offer,
really enhances what
they are doing.
They're doing it if they have
to do it as course work,
and I rarely ever have had
students that would come back
and who would want it then.
Would realize way back,
and when they're gone,
and then they tell me, "Oh,
now I understand.
Oh, great."
That's what I'm trying to.
That, I think, is our
frustration that we,
we're not really...
Also, for my case, in order for
them to do something meaningful
with the stuff I'm doing,
the tools I'm offering,
they have to have
a certain level.
I have to, I mean, they engage
me, so they need some training.
It's just a bit hard because
to sort of sustain it because
then, other things take over.
So, of course, if they're
in teacher certification,
and they're far more
interested in what they do,
what they do in the classroom
or if they want to do more
performance, and they're
far more interested of
honing their skills there.
So, theory, history, that all
kind of is not important
enough to them.
To make that, it's just
really hard for them to
really say, "Oh yeah, I really
need it.
I really want it."
That is the biggest battle
I have because it's, yeah.
>>Dr. Mary Konkle:
I think scaffolding is
really, really,
really important.
And just the same way you would
lay out a research proposal,
like Dagni said.
Laying out a plan of
"Okay, I want students."
I think in my group, I usually
take students as early
as I possibly can.
I take them freshman year.
They don't have biochemistry,
which is my discipline,
until their junior year.
So, if I wait until then,
I have barely any time
with them, right?
So, I take them early.
Doesn't matter if
they're clueless.
That's fine.
We'll deal with that, you know?
And then, I expect them to
present somewhere internally,
so either in our department
or sci class.
And hopefully, by the
next year, then,
they're going
somewhere regional.
Like Butler has an awesome
undergraduate research thing
that's relatively cheap, really
easy access, all disciplines,
very friendly, right?
It's NCUR Lite, basically.
But it's close, so if they don't
get invited, if there's not
enough seats, then
Butler's is a great option.
It's two hours away, it's
not that big of a deal.
Then, hopefully by their junior
or senior year, then we go to
Boston, or San Diego, or a
national conference where
the level of expectation
is very high.
But that's not going to work
for everyone, for sure,
but just the idea of trying to
figure out what you absolutely,
bare minimum, need
them to know.
Because, no, they're not going
to be able to have a research
project in your area, totally
your area, all by themselves
because they don't have
enough skills, right?
But the scaffolding and the
idea of sharing and taking
off the small portions.
I mean our projects
last 10 to 15 years.
Okay, so an undergraduate can't
do anything in 15 weeks,
but they can do a
little portion of it.
And so, you know, that's okay.
That's fine.
I think the other thing, in
contrast to the certification,
teacher certification situation,
a lot of our disciplines,
I mean, they start in gen.
chem., where they maybe
have had one year of chemistry.
By the day they graduate, they
become a chemist.
There is no exam,
there is no certification.
They are even with every
other professional in the field
the day they graduate Eastern.
And so, part of the research,
undergraduate research,
is to move from novice to
experts as quickly as possible,
and that means making them
responsible for their writing,
their speaking, their data.
Yeah, it it falls apart.
You know, they say, "Oh my god,
it didn't work."
Yeah, the data's the data.
I see that a lot.
That's what you got.
It didn't work like we
thought it was going to.
That's okay, let's
try something else.
"But we had this plan!"
Yeah, it's all gone to hell.
That's usually how this works,
you know?
I do think the other thing
I wanted to share is that
it's not like those of
us in the sciences have
all awesome students, okay?
That's not what happens, right?
Michael and I were just
talking about we had a
failure this morning.
It just didn't work out.
And we talk about it,
try to figure out if we
could have done anything
different.
Probably not, you know?
So, as chemists, we're used to
doing reactions where the
yield is like 60%, and we're
feeling awesome about that.
Okay, so we're sort of like
predisposed to failure
being okay.
And not every student is
going to be a success.
They're just not.
And will there be wasted effort?
Possibly, but you can't
pick them, is the other
thing I've learned, is that
a student with a 4.0 GPA
is not necessarily the
best research student.
>>Dr. Menze:
You need a screening process.
So, what helped me a lot is,
for example, for the first
semester they're joining
the lab group,
they don't get any credit.
And I just want to see that
they come to the meeting.
So, the only requirement I have
for the first semester for them
is show up at the
weekly lab meeting.
And then, the next semester,
we talk about giving you some
kind of a project where you're
a little bit more independent,
and I'll give you
some stuff to read.
And then, maybe every two
or three weeks, we meet,
and you tell me about the
paper that you were reading.
And since I don't give
them credit for that,
if they fall off the plate,
I don't feel that bad.
So, and it's my first
pre-screening to see if they
actually, really come.
And then, not every student
will preform on the level of
being able to be a first
also on a publication.
I need a few of them, but
there's not enough resources.
I can also design projects
where I know this will help the
student, but it will
never get onto a publication.
Because, the most I can expect
from that student is do this
little, small project, what
has been done already
10 times before, and it's
probably even published.
But I keep them busy,
keep them engaged,
and I see that it helps them.
So, I think pre-screening works
for me, and then deciding
which student has the capacity
to rise to which level.
Challenge them to that level,
but also of a student that I
know if they will not be able
to present at the Society for
Integrative and Comparative
Physiology, that I give them a
project that they can go to
ISAZ, and I'm not embarrassed.
[no dialogue]
>>Dr. Richard England: 
I just want to sort of draw
together some threads
that I wrote to Lynne
thinking about research in
the humanities, and research in
the sciences, and the arts.
If I was to try and do the
philosophical thing and
generalize a definition
of undergraduate research,
which I will do now, right, if
you're trying to get students to
apply skills, to develop skills,
to grow intellectually,
to aim at a good end product,
which may not actually
hit the target in
the effort, right?
But something, by good end
product I mean something that
when shared with other
people in the discipline,
they find some value
in it, right?
And that's true whether
it's art, science,
social science, whatever.
>>Dr. Mary Konkle:
Are you a philosopher?
>>Dr. Richard England:
Sorry.
[laughing]
It just leaks out.
Anyway, so whatever flaws,
let's take that.
Here's something, and I'll ask
Lynne to follow up with this,
because she's working
with students in the
history of medicine.
I know, as someone who's done
some history myself and has done
some research in the humanities,
one challenge is if I think
about the kinds papers that
get published or presented
in humanities type disciplines,
they're often developments
of interpretations
or narratives.
And I may be mischaracterizing
the sciences when I think about
this, which often are kind
of unsolved mysteries,
often are very boring, often
if three people read them,
you feel really
thrilled, right?
But it seems to me that in the
sciences, particularly in the
kind of lab based sciences,
although it also may be true
in field based sciences,
you can particularize, right?
You can have a project that
lasts 15 year, and you can divvy
it up into a lot of thin slices,
as it were, so that a student
can take a really tiny project,
and still get a publication
or at least a
presentation out of it.
I'm not, sure is that, in the
humanities, I mean, with these
history of medicine students
particularly that you
mentioned, how do you get them
up to speed in the basics of
the history of medicine?
Because, you know, they have
some history, but they don't
have, haven't read maybe
some Roy Porter or something.
>>Dr. Lynne Curry:
Exactly, yeah.
Which is why the honors
undergraduate thesis is
three semesters long.
So, it's a big commitment for
most students, and the first one
is just reading.
It's just getting involved,
absorbed into the literature.
And then, the second semester
is research, and the third
semester is writing.
And so, that is the biggest
challenge for something like
that because it is such a big
commitment on the student's part
and also on the faculty's part.
You know it's a big commitment,
but it's a joy of do,
so I think most of us are just
very, very excited to do it.
Where we have a challenge...
Well, I guess before I go there,
I'll say a way to get around
that is not all undergraduate
research has to be that,
has to be the thesis, so we
have smaller opportunities.
For example, we have Historia,
which is our annual publication
of undergraduate and
graduate research papers.
So, smaller
projects that they did.
We also include analytical book
reviews, or even if there's a
historical film, an analytical
film review or something,
so we really broaden it up.
And that's a much more
shorter term, concrete thing.
I myself have had the experience
of working with students
having the opportunity that
something that started as a
small project in a course, we
went on and developed it post,
after the course was over,
and Emily Scarborough
comes to mind.
She initially did a paper in
a course, a research paper,
with me, it was excellent.
She developed it into an
undergraduate research paper,
got an URSCA grant.
She's now just finishing up her
masters thesis, so she's been
working on this project now
for about three years.
But she's done it in the, you
know, like scaffolding, right,
the little pieces.
I think skills is a problem with
us too, right, that students
need to learn skills.
They don't necessarily come
to us understanding how to
locate and analyze primary
source documents.
A big challenge that we have in
our department is so many of my
colleagues work in languages
other than English.
That's part of, you know,
being a historian.
And so, it's unlikely that you
would get an undergraduate
student who can read
French sources or
can read German sources.
And so, what happens in that
case is that we have to be
careful, because a lot of the
work of doing undergraduate
research falls on people
who do American history or
British history because the
sources are available.
So, that's a
challenge we constantly face.
But again, I think there are
sort of ways to involve students
and get them interested.
And I don't know if some of you
were aware, a couple weeks ago
my colleague, Brian Mann,
did a workshop for students
on informing them, and also
sort of cautioning them about
doing internet research on
ISIS, since ISIS does work
through social media.
And so, sometimes when you are
researching an area or a group,
you maybe have to be careful
who you're contacting
and who you're
hearing back from.
So, that's a very real
problem, and it's very
engaging to students.
It was sort of a way to say
here's a research problem,
and here's something that
we need to think about.
So, I think for us, right now as
it turns out in our department,
we're going through kind of
a big curriculum revision.
And thinking about how we build
these things into our program
in a much more sort
of overt way.
There's all of these
components that are skills,
and they've always just been
there, but somehow it's the way
we think about them, and package
them, and sequence them.
We're sort of rethinking this.
And it's a lot of work thinking
through this, and how we take
our students from freshmen to
seniors, and how we make sure
they somehow, at the end,
end up with all of these
skills that they need to have.
>>Dr. Richard England: 
Yeah, and you know, maybe the
natural scientists can respond
to this, too, but I'm thinking,
too, still about this
question about how discrete
a project is.
If I walk through the first
floor of the physical sciences
building, where I see all of
these psychology posters,
curiously enough.
Right, but it's all really a
simple question, an interesting
question often, about the
relationship between the sexes,
or between this group and that
group, or the perception of
this, that, and the other thing
and the influence of certain
kinds of preconceptions.
You think of a study.
You think of a way in.
You draw down, ytou
get some data.
Maybe you don't get
many in your sample.
It doesn't really matter,
as far the development of
student skills goes.
I mean, in terms of ultimately
how good the end product is or
how publishable or shareable,
of course that matters.
But the method is there, and
that really seems to be a well
established, almost a formula,
as it were, for those
kinds of posters, and
students do that.
I think in some of the
other disciplines, whether it's
because of the nature of the
discipline or because of the
culture of the
discipline is another question.
There doesn't seem to be those
ways in, or there doesn't seem
to be that tradition,
and I jus, I don't know.
>>Dr. Mary Konkle: 
So, I think that's interesting
because, I may be wrong, I
don't think there's anyone
here from psychology, but
that's a product of a
course that's called research,
right?
So, that's a requirement of that
course, and they have to create
a poster, and it's on the first
floor, and it's on the second.
So, chemistry and biology have
a course called undergraduate
research that's not a course,
really, in the fact of
it doesn't meet as a group, and
we don't take them through
as 35 students.
They enroll in it.
They have to find a mentor,
and in chemistry we have a very
formulated way which it happens.
You have a sheet.
All the people's interests
that are listed on the back.
You have to interview at least
one from each subgroup to
talk to them before you can
request to do research.
And so, these can look
very, very differently.
Chemistry, we don't have nearly
the major as psychology, right?
So, we have 85 to 90%
participation in undergraduate
research in our model, but that
may not work in something
as huge as biology
or psychology.
The other thing that that can
do, going back to the elementary
education question, is that
sometimes the students will then
take that course where they're
assigned a research mentor
in the summer.
So, that way the only thing
they're doing is fulfilling
those hours to do research
as a summer course.
Of course, that means the
faculty mentor has to be there,
but if you're teaching something
else, and then you meet
with these students for three to
four hours a day, how many hours
it takes over the summer
session, then that's a way to
fulfill it under
curricular burden.
And we have a lot of student
athletes who choose to do it
that way because it's much
easier to do those hours
out of season and
out of practice.
So, I think that there's
curricular ways that look very
different, and very
different challenges
But the way in, I think, for
some of the social sciences
seems to me, this could be
incorrect, but it seems very
easy to be accessible, but
sometimes difficult to get very
complex, or deep, or
substantial, you know.
Whereas us. it's harder to get
in, right, when our students
start, we're in the lab with
them every moment they're there
because they don't
know what they are doing.
>>Dr. Michael Menze: 
Or they'll blow themselves up.
>>Dr. Mary Konkle: 
Well right.
[laughing]
It could cause problems.
[laughing]
Right, you know, so yeah, I
think there is a very different
threshold of engagement and
various curricular ways
to address that.
And so, I think the document
from CUR, the Council for
Undergraduate Research, that
has numerous examples of
how these things look on
various campuses and in
various disciplines
is really positive.
I wanted to make sure to mention
CUR today, that it's online.
It started in chemistry and
expanded, and they've been
working really hard to
go into the humanities,
and provide more resources
and more examples.
>>Dagni Bredesen:
This is NCUR?
>>Dr. Mary Konkle:
This is Council for
Undergraduate Research, who
sponsors NCUR, right?
But it's an organization
that lobbies, and it's based in
Washington D.C., who
lobbies for research, for
undergraduate research.
And it has, it's a huge
organization, and there's a lot
of resources, and it started
really in the sciences
But in the last 15, 20
years, they've tried to
really include everyone.
>>Dr. Richard England:
And how many of you were at
the summer meeting that was,
okay, many of you were.
We had this summer meeting
the provost sponsors
with representatives from CUR.
And they shared with us the
confusingly named COEUR
Document, which is the same as
the French spelling for
"heart."
What does that stand for again?
Something Criteria of Excellence
in Undergraduate Research.
There you go.
It sounds so good coming off the
tongue, it must be true, right?
>>Dr. Mary Konkle: 
It's available online.
It is massive.
>>Dr. Richard England:
It's like 60 pages.
>>Dr. Mary Konkle: 
Yeah, but it's available
as a PDF.
>>Dr. Richard England:
There's some good stuff
in there, though.
>>Dr. Mary Konkle:
Yeah, there's a tremendous
amount of good stuff about
institutional resources and
support, and what goes
well, what doesn't.
>>Dr. Richard England:
Two things that have sort of
come up here that I hadn't
really, quite as clearly
before today had in my
imagination, are the importance
of scaffolding, right, as you
put it.
And then, also related to
that, figuring out where a
student kind of belongs, right?
You know, I'm in charge of a
college where we have
departmental honors.
You start three or four
semesters through,
and you're supposed to be a high
achieving student already,
and you're just
suppose to do that.
And if you don't do
it, you fail, right?
Or at least you don't complete
your departmental honors.
But what we're hearing, you
know, and it's not going to work
in every department.
But, for example, in biology,
you've got this sort of
informal system of vetting,
creating a selection mechanism
that ultimately probably
works better than just
"What's your GPA?
Alright, we'll let
you in," right?
Which is what departmental
honors operates on generally,
and what we all kind of
implicitly operate under
a lot of the time.
Obviously, it's not going to
work all in the same way.
There are fewer history
majors, for example,
than biology majors.
And there's also the
culture expectation, right?
In biology, they know
they're going to do
undergraduate research.
Do they know that?
They should know that.
>>Dr. Michael Menze:
They should, yes.
I think 25% does.
20 to 25% are engaged in
research in one way or another.
>>Dr. Richard England:
But there's an expectation,
if you're going to go into
pre-med, or grad school,
or whatever else in those
particular areas, then that's
something you ought to do.
In the other disciplines,
I'm not sure that
that is as well-known.
Does that seem like a
fair characterization?
I mean, maybe in the arts,
obviously, in studio art,
you know you've got to produce
a portfolio of work.
>>Dr. Caroline Simpson: 
Well, yeah.
I guess it's the "R" word.
You know, because in the arts,
the word research, you know,
the first place people go to is
towards history and theory.
And just getting the studio
faculty into even sort of...
You know, once you explain to
them what they're doing is
research, one of their
students is doing research,
they're like, "Yes, of course,"
right.
But I think within the culture
of universities, that the
"R" word seems to imply a
certain course of study
and a certain outcome.
Even if you look at faculty, you
apply for research and creative
activity, and there's
like this kind of split.
And if you apply to a CFR, it's
like, "What's you hypothesis?"
And it's like "I don't have
one, I'm an art historian."
So, I think the culture is
a barrier and something
to sort of think about.
>>Dr. Richard England:
Well, and you know, we end up,
we have the Council for
Undergraduate Research,
but then we also end up with
all sorts of longish acronyms
like URSCA, right?
Or another, EUREKA, you know,
whatever.
You invent wonderful
acronyms that don't mean
anything to anybody.
But creative activity I think
is a tricky one, but also
more practical kinds of
activities like doing a
portfolio, or doing a website,
or doing a business case study
or a series of lesson plans.
I mean if we take, you know it's
a good end product that other
people in the discipline
will find value in,
all of those things count.
But research does tend to imply
a thickish pile of paper
that you have to read.
Right, and that's research
right there, good.
So yeah, I don't know.
>>Dr. Mary Konkle: 
I think one of the things
that's a little troubling about,
there's a lot of great things
happening, and there's
a lot of engagement,
but we're still, here,
very separate.
I think one of the best things
about NCUR, that I've had the
opportunity to be a
faculty/chaperone, whatever,
is that I heard, I'm so
sorry to Lynne over here,
I heard a student behind me,
one of my students in my lab,
and she sat next to the
person on the bus and said,
"What department are you from?"
She says, "History,"
and she goes, "You do
research in history?"
And I was like, "Oh, god."
And then, so the student says,
"What do you think museums are?"
[laughing]
This is before we got the
students out of the parking lot.
You know, and so, I like all of
the stuff that's happening in
technology [unclear dialogue]
and whatever, but it's really
troubling, I think, that the
students aren't aware that these
things happen in
other disciplines.
It's troubling that,
the awareness early.
Do students know that
they're supposed to do this?
Well, probably not because
it's the end of April,
and we only have the like
12 students who do.
So, how to make it broader,
inclusive, and aware.
I think there is going to have
to be some serious rethought
about whether each college
really needs its own thing,
and is that really
the best strategy?
Is that really the way to
make what we're doing known
and expose people to it,
students, and faculty,
and the community.
>>Dr. Lynne Curry:
I think we do have to, you know,
there's a lot of work to do in
kind of increasing awareness.
And we were talking
about, as the college...
>>Dr. Christopher Mitchell:
Like incorporating it into
Prowl and open houses,
and so forth and so on.
>>Dr. Lynne Curry:
Yeah, making these things just
a lot more overt.
And a lot of it isn't really
imposing anything new.
It's literally just, this is
what's already going on,
and it's a different way
to kind of highlight it.
I think one of the things that
we think about with our program
is all the opportunities
that there are, to make
that more obvious.
So, we have things that are
more obvious like Historia,
or we give awards, right?
But those things
are kind of...
>>Dr. Betty Smith:
I have a question about
both art history
and music history.
When I think about doing
research in those areas,
I think of archives,
archival research.
With the internet, you can go on
a visit to all these wonderful
museums and libraries and
actually view objects that,
in the past, there was
no chance to even see.
So, is that kind of part
of, is that encouraged as
part of research?
>>Dr. Caroline Simpson:
It is in my area.
We have sort of virtual
museum exhibition visits
that you can take as a
part of class projects.
Those things like the Archives
of American Art, which you can
access a lot of
material online now.
The online, though, I wrestle
with, in relation to studio
artists, because a lot
of contemporary art
crosses disciplines.
And you find this with your
graduating seniors when
you have like a
one-year M.A. program.
And you may have someone who
is a sculptor, who is working
with found materials, who has
some sort of idea about
physics that they want to
express in sculptural form.
But they really have no
grounding in physics,
and their whole knowledge
of physics is coming from
TED Talks and things
that they Google.
And so, the project
ends up being kind of
pseudo-intellectual, and that's
like a real tendency I find in
kind of contemporary art.
There's like this, you can
draw from all of these different
sources and bring all of
these things together,
but as a viewer, as an audience
member, as a faculty evaluator,
it's like okay, well, you may
say this particular sculpture
that you've just completed
relates to some sort of aspect
of physics, but how in
the heck do I know that?
You know what I mean?
I have no background
of physics.
>>Dean Richard England
Well, people who are likening
to Schrodinger's Cat don't
realize he was a dog
person, for instance.
>>Dr. Caroline Simpson: 
But I just find that a lot of,
and I don't know if this is the
case in sort of other areas
that are creative, or even maybe
in history, but it's this idea
that it's all out there.
It's all out there for
you to use and draw on,
And it gets back to, I think,
what Dagni was talking about,
sort of questioning the
sources that you come across.
I think you were
talking about it too.
And it's like just getting them
to sort of think critical about
the materials that they're
using, and that the internet,
that they can spend a lot of
time just hunting for something
of quality on the internet,
let alone in the archive
or in the library.
They, more and more of
them just kind of
go that direction now.
The first thing they do
is Google, and they think that
they're doing
research by Googling.
>>Dr. Mary Konkle: 
Well they are, right?
At very surface level.
>>Dr. Dagni Bredesen: 
So, can I ask that question
about how do you, it sounds
like you assign them projects
that are tailored to them.
But certainly, for the URSCA,
and that there's an expectation
that this is an original
project, that it's going to
contribute to the field
a product of value,
and those are the ones
that get funded, right?
And it's vetted in a way
that assumes a certain
kind of professional knowledge
that these students are
bringing to that.
Now, I'm the one who has
to tell them, "Well this
would be a valuable
thing," right?
And then, have to help them
craft it in order to get it
off the ground, right?
And I'm talking about if it
hasn't come up in a class
or something, that it's
something that they
want to pursue.
And I've had mixed success.
You know, I mean, one person who
would have actually finished it
didn't get it because I think
it sounded too much like
a class research paper, right?
And so, then the other two
people came up with something
original, but they really
didn't have the understanding.
Like one was a new edition of
an old text, and that takes
absolutely years, right?
I mean, we didn't finish
it before she graduated
And she was absolutely
demoralized and upset,
and even when I explained
that, the reality to her.
Anyway, so that's my story,
but I just, I'm a little
disheartened about what kind
of project I can come up with
that will be at a level,
and URSCA, the funding
is a motivation, right?
Not so much for me, but for them
to be able to immerse themselves
for the summer, or for an extra
course in the fall, or whatever.
So anyway, I just wondered
what thoughts people had, or
is that going off task?
>>Dean Richard England:
No, it's a little off task:
But I will just say that,
as far as URSCA goes,
a lot of what gets funded is
stuff that really, exactly
meets the criteria.
If you don't have a good budget,
you're description doesn't sound
very good.
So, it's just like scholarship
applications, where you're
looking to throw stuff out
because it didn't quite
meet this, or it's just a little
bit less than that other thing.
It's unfortunate, but that's
kind of the reality
And some of the stuff that gets
funded is really top-line
stuff, some of it is
a little shakier.
It can vary.
But I will say, just as a note
for everyone, and I do generally
offer this I think when I
make the URSCA announcements,
if they want feedback, they just
need to get me their application
a few days ahead of time.
I'm not actually involved
in the committee directly,
but I'm happy to give feedback.
And they should feel
free to come in and chat.
>>Dr. Michael Menze:
Especially in the summer,
because there's a lot of money,
3,000 dollars for the students.
So, I actually have them do
an internal competition
before I say, okay, that's
the one that I sponsor.
Or I sort of tell you why you
two guys, you are ranking
higher in my opinion
now than those other ones.
And then, as a group, we
decide who did the best job
and who should apply.
>>Dr. Bredesen ; 
Okay, so maybe the CUR,
that thing, I should read
that before the next time
I do something for
undergraduates.
I don't know.
I just, but I think the
sciences are predisposed to
be more eligible for
that, I don't know.
>>Dr. Richard England:
Well, one thing,
and this is maybe an
observation that comes up in
the context of the kind of
project you were discussing.
You know, if you were doing an
edition of the text, you were
going to do it with the student,
the student graduated,
he's gone.
What I'm hearing is, and I think
this is kind of also a cultural
thing in the humanities, as well
as in the arts, for that matter,
that it tends to be a
very individual process.
I do my little study on
19th Century people who
liked or didn't like Darwin
for a variety of reasons,
and I'm fascinated by it, and
there are three other people
in the world who'll read my
stuff, and we're all quite
happy with that, right?
But it's a very
individualized project.
But I'm getting a sense from
what you guys are talking about,
that you've got a society.
>>Dr. Mary Konkle:
It's ironic, right?
Because, people think scientists
are very antisocial.
We have groups, we have group
meetings, we have parties,
we do these things, right?
>>Dr. Richard England:
You want to see a misanthrope,
go see a [unclear dialogue],
right.
[laughing] 
>>Dr. Mary Konkle:
It's a really important point,
though, that particularly
for undergraduates who may
be intimidated, getting a
group three of them, or two,
even two can work.
Three is really when it
seems to be pretty good,
to start the process together
of undergraduate research
and attack a single problem
from multiple facets.
You know, that's really
powerful.
They're more likely to stay
engaged, they have a cohort.
Should they stay in the whole
time, then they have a cohort
to apply to graduate
school with.
This experience is
really strong.
And then, when they Google
and the other person says,
"Well that's not really, very
credible," they're responsible.
We always say that group
meetings are the first form
of peer review.
>>Dr. Bredesen: 
And that I think is a really
great example of the kind
of culture that you have.
We don't have that
amongst our undergraduates.
We do have more of that
going on with our graduates.
>>Dr. Mary Konkle
But you can.
You know what I mean?
So, I think, do I think science
is ahead of the humanities
in this undergraduate model?
Yeah, because we've been doing
it longer, but it's not because
it's easier, it just
has evolved over time,
and there's a longer
history of it.
>>Dr. Jay Bickford:
Can I contribute something?
And this relates, I'm
sorry, I forgot your name.
>>Dr. Caroline Simpson:
Caroline.
>>Dr. Jay Bickford:
To the scaffolding
that's been talked
about, the sources
that you were talking
about, Lynne, is that right?
One of the things that works
really well with me, and I know
that this is all based
on the discipline, too
But to make, because in
social studies ed. or history
education, it's not a team
sport, like what it sounds like
it is with the science.
One of the things that I try to
do with my undergrads that seems
to work: breaking things up into
very small, manageable chunks.
And I will tell them something
like "Alright, between
this week and next week, do
you think you could do this?"
And what they produce,
it's on a Word document,
and then I'm looking
at their source.
Okay, this one curricular
resource or trade book or
primary document, and then I
look at their review of that
during week two.
And then, when they're on
week two, I look at their
work for week two
during week three.
And for me, it takes a half
hour, an hour to go through
their work, and they take
one to two hours to do it,
to do the original work.
But it's this back and forth,
where I'm constantly looking
at this, and it fits my time
schedule and their time
schedule, you know what I mean,
with digital documents.
And it seems to work so well
to make what could be an
individual project on my own,
the undergrad selects a topic
that they're very interested
in, and we go from there.
And this is one thing that
works very, very well for me.
Or it seems to.
>>Dr. Caroline Simpson:
I think it's context, again,
because they do a lot of
experimentation, again,
with materials and ideas in
their studio courses, right,
which is very hands on,
that involves mentoring.
Many of the studio art faculty
do assign short papers
in their courses.
We do ask them to do a certain
amount of research or reading
into the ideas that they're
exploring in the studio class.
So, that's one level of kind
of inquiry that's going on
in the fine arts.
And then, you have your history
courses, and then you have like
your graphic design courses,
which are involved projects
that basically involve
real clients, right?
So, that they have to do
research into a particular
product or client need,
as they're designing.
You know, so I think it all
depends.
It's like not every
class is writing based.
Not every type of research
necessarily involves
written sources.
You know what I mean?
A music student could do
research by listening to a bunch
of recordings from a
particular genre of music.
And dance student could view
video tapes of particular
approaches to contemporary
dance, and then try to
incorporate that, emulate that
And that's still research.
And I would imagine in aspects
of kinesiology or sports science
that research might even have
a different component to it.
So, it gets back to the "R"
word.
We think research, we
think paper, we think reading,
writing, and I think
it's broader than that.
>>Dr. Sue GosseL 
I think that's what we try to
embed in all of our
courses in nursing,
drop the first two letters.
We want you searching, we want
that spirit of inquiry,
and we craft our
assignments to require it.
For instance, public health
nursing, well, we talk about
public health data.
Uncle Sam keeps so much data
that is publicly available.
And the students have to,
wherever they are, they're in
a county, and that county
has reams of data, that is,
when I tell them how to
get to it and show them.
Then, they're guided through
assignments to pull the data,
look at it, analyze it, and
then with an unlimited budget,
because that's what I give them,
they can address this problem.
They pick the problem, they get
the data, they analyze the data,
and they go towards
solving problems.
So, again, working through
the searching for answers,
rather than research because
my students, they're transfer
students, they're
working professionals,
and they have that fear.
I don't know what it is.
It's some kind of intimidation
that we try very intentionally
to beat out of them, and just
change that point of view.
It's how we build it, and
I think the payoff is
this visibility that we
all have kind of touched on.
How do we continue to encourage
our students by giving them
opportunities to see
their work, and to have
presentation opportunities, and
opening it up, not just for
honors students, but for
the broader student body.
I think that's what I want, too.
>>Dr. Richard England:
I want to just return quickly
to a point about Google, and
reach to a point you made
about the students'
resistance to research.
The reason I think students
like Google is because
it's a world of answers.
All you have to do is
ask a question, bang,
there's an answer.
Whether it's the
right answer, who cares?
There's an answer, right?
You know, I've got the answer
now.
What do you mean this essay's
no good, I copied it off Google.
[laughing]
But that comes from a naive
belief that knowledge is just
there, and all you have to do
is master it and give it back.
And it's the lowest level
of Bloom's Taxonomy
and all the rest of it, right?
And it's exactly what, in the
general education group,
we're trying to defeat and
conquer, and try to get them
up the scale to do
more independent and
critical thinking.
So, undergraduate research in
this broad [unclear dialogue]
includes humanities, [unclear
dialogue] you name it, all sorts
of different
approaches to searching, right,
is the antithesis of that.
It's telling you that knowledge
is created because you're
going to create
something, right?
Or you're going to contribute
something to this discipline,
which maybe later on, other
people might study, right?
It doesn't mean that it comes
out of nothing, that it's not
valuable just because it's
constructed, or because it's
discovered, or because it's
something that we had to
engage in effort in
order to accomplish.
But that's why it's also really
important to get that visible to
undergraduates in their
very first year here,
maybe in their very
first semester here.
Michael's trying to get me
to move showcase to the Fall.
So, maybe we'll...
I know, I know, I know.
Alright, we'll argue about that
later.
But anyway, the challenge is if
we could get undergraduates to
see that and experience that
really early on, then we might
just help the overall learning
goals for all students,
which is we come to college
not to learn a bunch of
answers, but to learn how to
think and to learn why Google
is not the end of things, but
in most cases the beginning.
Right, you find something,
what does that mean?
Where did it come from?
Why should I believe it?
Is that true?
What other things have
been said about this?
And you're away.
[music plays]
