How did you get involved
in Zionism?
It was automatic actually...
For a number of different reasons,
one is the usual rebellion,
our family were assimilationists,
they were Jews,
but Hungarians first and Jews second.
Obviously if you want to rebel
that has to be changed, the opposite.
But also the environment,
if I would have been accepted,
let's say,
in a  normal society and let, whatever talent
I had [...] round there
probably I wouldn't have been forced
also by the environment to turn inward
toward the Jewish community.
Third and foremost,
I think that the presence of
Dr. Emil Roth
was very influential
from the very beginning
to get him to get me involved
in Zionist groups.
Later, when I was 16 or 17
he sort of picked me
to become the leader of the local group
and he was the one
who established contact
between me and the local Jewish group
and the Hanoar Hatzioni in Budapest.
That was the first time
I heard about Hanoar Hatzioni
because we knew only about
the extremes of the Zionism,
the Beitar on the right
and Hashomer Hatzair on the left,
but nothing in the middle
and Hanoar Hatzioni was exactly
right smack in the middle.
So he was very much influential.
He was the one who promoted
Hebrew learning, etc.
He was my spiritual father.
And there was
this one train organized,
I think it was more than 600,
some 1600 people were there eventually
who went to Bergen Belsen
but ended up in Switzerland and so on.
Many of the prominent Jews
were there
and Emil Roth could have been
on that train with his family.
He had a beautiful wife
and two small children
and he elected to stay with his flock.
He decided...
Obviously he didn't know
what fate had...
but he decided it's more important
to provide leadership and...
psychological support.
And he was tortured I heard...
He died obviously,
and his whole family died in Auschwitz.
