>> Andrew: GOOD EVENING.
I'M ANDREW CHANG.
BILLIONS OF FEDERAL DOLLARS 
ANNOUNCED TO REOPEN THE COUNTRY 
SAFELY.
>> WE'RE NOT SURE WHAT THE NEW 
NORMAL IS, BUT THIS MONEY IS 
GOING TO HELP US GET THERE.
>> Andrew: FROM CHILD CARE, 
TRANSIT TO CITIES, IS IT ENOUGH 
TO GET CANADIANS BACK TO WORK?
>> YOU WORRY THERE COULD BE 
POTENTIAL TAMPERING ACTIVITIES.
>> Andrew: RUSSIA IS ACCUSED OF 
HACKING INTO COVID-19 VACCINE 
RESEARCH, INCLUDING CANADA.
>> DID YOU DISCUSS THIS MATTER 
WITH ANY MEMBER OF THE PRIME 
MINISTER'S OFFICE?
>> THE OPPOSITION DRILLS THE 
MINISTER RESPONSIBLE FOR THE WE 
CHARITY CONTRACT.
AND OUR NATIONAL CONVERSATION 
ABOUT MEDICAL ASSISTANCE IN 
DYING.
>> WE STILL LIVE IN A COUNTRY 
WHERE THE VAST MAJORITY OF 
CANADIANS DO NOT HAVE ACCESS TO 
PALLIATIVE CARE.
>> Andrew: CANADIAN QUESTIONS 
ABOUT THE CHALLENGES, THE ETHICS
AND THE LAW.
THINKS "THE NATIONAL".
-- THIS IS "THE NATIONAL".
>> Andrew: TO TRY TO CONTAIN THE
CORONAVIRUS, CANADA SHUT DOWN 
HUGE SWATHS OF ITS ECONOMY, BUT 
OPEN THEM UP AGAIN AND 
RECOVERING, THAT'S A WHOLE OTHER
CHALLENGE.
TODAY, THAT EFFORT GOT A 
MULTIBILLION DOLLAR BOOST FROM 
OTTAWA.
AN AGREEMENT STRUCK BETWEEN THE 
FEDERAL GOVERNMENT AND THE 
PROVINCES AND TERRITORIES TO 
PROVIDE CRUCIAL FUNDING FOR SOME
KEY AREAS.
THINK TRANSIT, CHILD CARE, AND 
MUNICIPAL GOVERNMENT.
THE SAFE REOPENING AGREEMENT HAS
TAKEN WEEKS TO NEGOTIATE.
AND IN THE END IT AMOUNTS TO 
MORE THAN WAS PREVIOUSLY 
PROMISED.
DAVID COCHRANE WITH THE DETAILS 
AND THE REACTION.
>> Reporter: IT'S A BIG 
AGREEMENT TO TACKLE A BIG 
PROBLEM.
THE SAFE REOPENING OF SOCIETY 
BEFORE THERE IS A VACCINE.
>> Prime Minister Justin 
Trudeau: OUR GOVERNMENT WILL 
INVEST OVER $19 BILLION TO 
ENSURE THE PROVINCES AND 
TERRITORIES HAVE THE SUPPORT 
THEY NEED.
>> Reporter: THERE IS BILLIONS 
TO EXPAND TESTING, CONTACT 
TRACING AND STOCKPILE P.P.E.
MORE MONEY TO PROTECT SENIORS IN
CARE AND MORE OVERALL FOR THE 
HEALTH SYSTEM, SPECIFICALLY 
MENTAL HEALTH, ADDICTION AND 
HOMELESSNESS.
>> Prime Minister Justin 
Trudeau: COVID-19 ISN'T JUST A 
HEALTH CRISIS, IT'S AN ECONOMIC 
CRISIS, TOO.
>> Reporter: SO $625 MILLION TO 
CREATE CHILD CARE SPACES SO 
PARENTS, MOSTLY WOMEN, CAN GO 
BACK TO WORK.
AND A BILLION-DOLLAR SICK LEAVE 
PROGRAMME, UP TO 10 DAYS PAID 
LEAVE FOR PEOPLE WHO DON'T HAVE 
IT.
>> THE COST HAS BEEN FAR IN 
EXCESS OF $19 BILLION ACROSS THE
NATION, BUT THIS GOES A GREAT 
WAY TO ACKNOWLEDGING THAT 
EXISTING COST HAS ALREADY 
OCCURRED AND COST THAT HAS YET 
TO OCCUR.
>> WE'RE GOING TO CONTINUE 
WORKING WITH THE PROVINCES AND 
TERRITORIES.
WE'RE GOING TO CONTINUE WORKING 
WITH THE MUNICIPALITIES.
>> Reporter: OTTAWA CUT THE DEAL
WITH THE PREMIERS BUT IT 
TRICKLES DOWN TO CITIES AND 
TOWNS WHO HAVE BEEN CRYING OUT 
FOR HELP.
>> I JUST THINK IT WILL HELP US 
WITH A WIDE RANGE OF OUR 
PROBLEMS AND WE'LL HOPEFULLY GO 
A LONG WAY TO MAKING SURE THAT 
THE KINDS OF CUTS, OR TAX 
INCREASES THAT HAD BEEN 
DISCUSSED, WILL BE MINIMIZED OR 
ELIMINATED.
>> Reporter: TO DO THAT, THERE 
IS $2 BILLION TO COVER MUNICIPAL
OPERATING COSTS.
$1.8 BILLION FOR STRUGGLING 
PUBLIC TRANSIT.
THE PREMIERS HAVE AGREED TO 
MATCH THAT DOLLAR-FOR-DOLLAR.
THIS AGREEMENT WILL RUN FOR SIX 
TO EIGHT MONTHS.
AT THAT POINT, THE MONEY WILL BE
GONE, BUT THE VIRUS MIGHT NOT.
AND THE NEGOTIATIONS WILL START 
ALL OVER AGAIN.
DAVID COCHRANE, CBC NEWS, 
OTTAWA.
>> Andrew: THE ECONOMIC RESTART 
MEANS GETTING PEOPLE TO WORK.
AND TWO KEY ELEMENTS THERE ARE 
TRANSIT AND CHILD CARE.
CAROLYN DUNN SHOWS US HOW THE 
PROMISE IS PANNING OUT IN 
CANADIAN CITIES.
>> Reporter: IT'S NOT LONGER A 
QUESTION OF HOW TO KEEP TRANSIT 
RUNNING ON TIME, IT'S HOW TO 
KEEP IT RUNNING AT ALL.
>> PEOPLE NEED TO COMMUTE TO 
WORK.
THEY NEED TO GO SEE THEIR 
FAMILY.
THEY NEED TO SEE THEIR FRIENDS.
>> Reporter: WITH THE MONEY 
RAISED FROM TRANSIT FARES ACROSS
THE COUNTRY, IT'S PLUMMETED.
UNEMPLOYMENT AND WORKING FROM 
HOME IS COSTING THE TORONTO 
TRANSIT COMMISSION HUNDREDS OF 
MILLIONS OF DOLLARS.
SO TODAY'S ANNOUNCEMENT HELPED.
>> I AM THRILLED WITH THE 
FEDERAL AND PROVINCIAL 
ANNOUNCEMENTS ABOUT THE MONEY 
COMING.
I'M REALLY LOOKING FORWARD TO 
THE DETAILS, BUT IT WILL HELP 
THE T.T.C. AND THE CITY OF 
ONTAR
TORONTO AS A WHOLE.
>> Reporter: PASSENGERS CAN SEE 
IT'S A NO-BRAINER TO GET THE 
ECONOMY BACK ON TRACK.
>> WE WANT PEOPLE TO GET BACK TO
WORK, RIGHT?
SO I THINK THAT THEY'RE GOING TO
HAVE TO TRY AND MAYBE REALLOCATE
FUNDS, YOU KNOW.
SO THAT PEOPLE WHO NEED TO RELY 
ON THE SUBWAY, IT DOESN'T 
BECOME -- THAT COST IS NOT 
PASSED ON TO THE CONSUMER.
>> Reporter: CALGARY'S MAYOR 
SAYS TRANSIT AND CHILD CARE ARE 
GOING TO BE KEY TO ECONOMIC 
RECOVERY.
>> SO FOR A LOT OF PARENTS, 
THEY'RE ACTUALLY ASKED TO CHOOSE
A VERY HORRIBLE CHOICE.
YOU CAN HAVE A KID OR YOU CAN 
HAVE A JOB.
AND FOR OUR ECONOMY TO WORK, WE 
NEED PEOPLE TO BE ABLE TO 
PARTICIPATE IN THE WORKFORCE.
AND THAT MEANS THAT PEOPLE ARE 
GOING TO HAVE TO HAVE ACCESS TO 
CHILD CARE.
>> Reporter: AT THIS DAYCARE 
THEY PUT IN ALL THE SAFETY 
MEASURES.
NOW THEY JUST NEED THE KIDS.
THE DAYCARE TAKES UP TO 180 
CHILDREN, BUT ONLY 42 ARE 
ENROLLED, MOST OF THEM 
PART-TIME.
ITS DIRECTOR HOPES THE FEDERAL 
RESTART MONEY WILL AMOUNT TO A 
PER-CHILD SUBSIDY.
>> I THINK THE DAYCARES NEED THE
MOST HELP BECAUSE THAT IS THE 
FIRST STEP TO GETTING THE 
ECONOMY.
FIRST STEP IS CHILDREN GOING TO 
DAYCARES AND THEN PARENTS GO TO 
WORK.
>> Reporter: THAT'S THE PLAN 
ANYWAY.
NOW EVERYONE AFFECTED WILL BE 
WAITING FOR THE DETAILS.
>> Andrew: QUÉBEC HAS RECORDED 
ITS HIGHEST NUMBER OF COVID-19 
CASES SINCE LATE JUNE.
142 NEW INFECTIONS WERE 
IDENTIFIED TODAY WITH AT LEAST 
45 TIED TO RECENTLY OPENED BARS 
IN MONTREAL.
PEOPLE WHO HAVE GONE AND STAFF, 
TOO, WERE URGED TO GET TESTED 
WHICH HAS LED TO LONG LINES AND 
A SCRAMBLE TO OPEN NEW TESTING 
FACILITIES.
THE PROVINCE SAYS IT'S NOT 
RULING OUT SHUTTING DOWN BARS IF
NUMBERS CONTINUE TO RISE.
>> THIS OUTBREAK IS A REMINDER 
THAT THE VIRUS HAS NOT GONE 
AWAY.
ONCE IT STARTS TO SPREAD, IT CAN
SPREAD QUICKLY.
>> Andrew: SASKATCHEWAN 
ANNOUNCED 42 NEW CASES TODAY.
THAT'S THEIR HIGHEST ONE DAY 
TOTAL YET.
31 CONNECTED TO A GROWING 
OUTBREAK IN SOUTHERN 
COMMUNITIES.
ALBERTA SAW 120 NEW INFECTIONS 
TODAY.
THAT'S THE HIGHEST ONE-DAY TALLY
IN TWO AND A HALF MONTHS.
THERE IS A SURGE OF CASES IN 
CALGARY WITH OUTBREAKS IN SPIN 
STUDIOS AND RESTAURANTS.
CBC NEWS CONFIRMED THAT THE 
COVID-19 OUTBREAK THAT TRIGGERED
A FULL FACILITY CLOSURE AT AN 
EDMONTON HOSPITAL IS STILL 
GROWING.
OF THE NOW 53 CASES AT 
MISERICORDIA COMMUNITY HOSPITAL,
17 EMERGED AFTER IT CLOSED ITS 
DOORS TO NEW PATIENTS LAST WEEK.
>>> THERE IS ONLY ONE WAY THE 
THREAT FROM COVID-19 TRULY 
SUBSIDES.
A VACCINE.
RESEARCH INTO THAT HOLY GRAIL IS
HIGHLY PRIZED AND NOW THE U.S., 
U.K. AND CANADA ARE ACCUSING 
STATE BACKED HACKERS OF TRYING 
TO STEAL IT.
CHRISTINE BIRAK BRINGS US THE 
CASE OF ESPIONAGE.
>> Reporter: IT'S NO SECRET, 
COUNTRIES SPY ON EVE OTHER, BUT 
CALLING IT OUT IS RARE.
IN A STATEMENT, CANADA, UNITED 
STATES AND THE U.K. BLASTED 
RUSSIA, SAYING HACKERS HAVE BEEN
TRYING TO STEAL INFORMATION ON 
THE DEVELOPMENT AND TESTING OF 
COVID-19 VACCINES.
>> WE'RE ALL TRYING TO FIND A 
VACCINE THAT PEOPLE AROUND THE 
WORLD CAN BENEFIT FROM AND HAVE 
THE RUSSIA GOVERNMENT ENGAGED IN
THAT ENDEAVOUR NEEDS CALLING 
OUT.
>> Reporter: CYBER ATTACKS 
TARGETING UNIVERSITIES AND 
PHARMACEUTICAL WERE LINKED TO A 
GROUP CALLED APT29 OR COZY BEAR.
IT'S ALMOST CERTAINLY OPERATING 
AS PART OF RUSSIAN INTELLIGENCE 
SERVICES.
>> THE MAIN CONCERN, NOT JUST 
THE RUSSIANS TARGETING IT, BUT 
OTHER FOREIGN ACTORS AS WELL.
>> Reporter: DEVELOPERS SAY 
THEY'RE AWARE OF THE CYBER 
THREATS AND ARE CONSTANTLY 
UPGRADING THEIR SYSTEMS TO GUARD
AGAINST THEM.
INTELLIGENCE OFFICIALS WOULDN'T 
SAY IF THE HACKERS WERE 
SUCCESSFUL, BUT SECURITY EXPERTS
HAVE IDEAS.
>> IT'S COULD BE A RANGE OF 
ACTIVITIES.
EVERYTHING FROM STEALING TO THE 
INFORMATION TO USING THEIR OWN 
RESEARCH.
YOU ALSO WORRY THERE COULD BE 
TAMPERING ACTIVITIES.
>> Reporter: RUSSIAN STATE 
TELEVISION RECENTLY REPORTED THE
COUNTRY HAS A VACCINE GOING INTO
STAGE 3 CLINICAL TRIALS.
WHILE THERE IS NATIONAL PRIDE 
AND LOTS OF MONEY AT STAKE IN 
THE VACCINE RACE --
>> SAYING THAT CRIMINAL 
BEHAVIOUR BY THE RUSSIANS IS 
JUSTIFIED -- 
>> Reporter: SOME EXPERTS SAY 
THERE IS ALSO DISTRUST AROUND 
WHO WILL GET ACCESS.
>> THERE IS ANXIETY OF WHETHER A
VACCINE WILL BE AVAILABLE FOR 
EVERYONE.
>> Reporter: AND WITH THE 
HEALTH, ECONOMIC AND POLITICAL 
STAKES FOR THE VACCINE THIS 
HIGH, CLEARLY SOME NATIONS DON'T
WANT TO RELY ON THE GOODWILL OF 
OTHERS TO GET A HOLD OF IT.
CHRISTINE BIRAK, CBC NEWS, 
TORONTO.
>> Andrew: A FEDERAL JUDGE SAYS 
CANADA'S SPY AGENCY HAS GIVEN 
FUNDS TO KNOWN PERPETRATORS OF 
TERRORISM TO GAIN INTELLIGENCE 
AND THEN PRESENTED THAT 
INFORMATION IN COURT TO GET 
WARRANTS WITHOUT DISCLOSING IT 
HAD BEEN ILLEGALLY OBTAINED.
>> I THINK CLEARLY THERE NEEDS 
TO BE GREATER CANDOUR.
THE COURTS HAVE IDENTIFIED THAT.
>> Andrew: THE GOVERNMENT AGREED
TO REVIEW THE CSIS ACTIVITIES 
AFTER THE RULING SAID THE AGENCY
HAD A CAVALIER ATTITUDE TOWARD 
THE RULE OF LAW.
THEY SAID THE ALLIES COMMONLY 
PAY EXTREMISTS TO OBTAIN VITAL 
INFORMATION.
>>> OPPOSITION M.P.s QUESTIONED 
THE LIBERAL MINISTER TODAY ON 
CHOOSING THE WE CHARITY TO 
ADMINISTER A STUDENT GRANTS 
PROGRAMME, DESPITE ITS FINANCIAL
TIES TO RELATIVES OF THE PRIME 
MINISTER AND THE FINANCE 
MINISTER.
>> WERE YOU AWARE OF THE FAMILY 
LINKS BETWEEN THE TRUDEAU FAMILY
AND WE?
AND THE MORNEAU FAMILY AND WE?
>> MY FOCUS WAS REALLY ON MAKING
SURE THERE WAS AN ADDITIONAL 
SUPPORT FOR YOUNG CANADIANS WHO 
--
>> THAT'S NOT THE QUESTION.
THE QUESTION IS --
>> AT $5,000 MAXIMUM PER 
POSITION BRINGS US TO $100 
MILLION.
WHERE DOES THE OTHER $800 
MILLION GO?
>> OKAY, SO VASSY KAPELOS IS 
HOST OF "POWER AND POLITICS".
WHAT CAUGHT YOUR ATTENTION FROM 
TODAY'S QUESTIONING?
>> Vassy: WELL, THE TESTIMONY 
WAS LONG, MORE THAN THREE HOURS 
AND SOMETIMES VERY DENSE, BUT 
THERE WAS A SIGNIFICANT PIECE OF
INFORMATION TO COME OUT OF IT.
AND IT CAME FROM THE SENIOR 
BUREAUCRAT IN CHARGE OF THE 
STUDENT GRANT PROGRAMME.
SHE TOLD M.P.s THAT THE WE 
CHARITY HAD ACTUALLY COME TO THE
GOVERNMENT WITH A PROPOSAL FOR A
STUDENT VOLUNTEER PROGRAMME AND 
TALKED TO THEM ABOUT SUCH A 
PROGRAMME ON APRIL 19.
SO WHY IS THAT IMPORTANT?
BECAUSE THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT 
ANNOUNCED THE GRANT PROGRAMME 
AFTER THAT, ON THE 22ND, AND 
LATER THAT SAME DAY WE SUBMITTED
AN UPDATED PROPOSAL THAT MEANT 
THE FED'S REQUIREMENT FOR THE 
PROGRAMME.
AND THAT DIRECTLY IMPACTS THE 
PRIME MINISTER'S CENTRAL 
CONTENTION THAT THE PUBLIC 
SERVICE TOLD HIM AND HIS CABINET
THE WE CHARITY WAS THE ONLY ONE 
THAT COULD RUN THERE PROGRAMME.
>> Andrew: WHAT DOES THAT MEAN?
>> Vassy: WE GOT CLUES TODAY 
WHEN THE REV   REVELATION WAS 
MADE IN CABINET.
THERE WAS A GASP.
YOU CAN EXPECT IT TO KEEP THE 
CONTROVERSY ALIVE.
FOR HOW LONG, I'M NOT SURE.
THE COMMITTEE THAT MET TODAY 
ISN'T DONE MEETING IN THEIR 
PROBE OF THE ISSUE EITHER.
THEY'VE GOT MORE MEETINGS 
SCHEDULED AND ANOTHER COMMITTEE,
THE ETHICS COMMITTEE, IT BEGINS 
ITS PROBE TOMORROW.
FOR NOW, THE STORY CONTINUES AND
THE PRIME MINISTER WILL LIKELY 
FIND HIMSELF FACING QUESTIONS ON
THE CONTROVERSY FOR A TIME TO 
COME.
ANDREW?
>> Andrew: THANK YOU VERY MUCH.
WITH COVID-19, IT'S HARD TO LOOK
SOUTH OF THE BORDER AND NOT GET 
A SINKING FEELING.
THE U.S. HAD 66,000 NEW CASES 
YESTERDAY, CONTINUING A 
WEEK-LONG TREND.
AND THIS CAN'T BE BLAMED ON 
TESTING.
AS CANADA BOOSTED TESTING, THE 
POSITIVITY RATE DROPPED, BUT IN 
THE U.S. IT SWELLED, SUGGESTING 
THE EPIDEMIC IS GROWING.
YET, THERE IS NO UNIFIED 
RESPONSE.
TODAY, ARKANSAS AND COLORADO 
ANNOUNCED ORDERS FOR MANDATORY 
MASK USE, WHILE GEORGIA BANNED 
LOCAL OFFICIALS FROM DOING THE 
SAME.
AMID THE CONFUSION, WALL STREET 
TOOK A HIT, TOO.
IT CAME ON THE WORD THAT NEW 
CLAIMS FOR UNEMPLOYMENT BENEFITS
SURPASSED 1 MILLION FOR THE 17TH
STRAIGHT WEEK.
>> Reporter: A NEIGHBOURHOOD 
MUCH CHANGED.
SEVERAL RESTAURANTS ABANDONED BY
THEIR OWNERS.
THE HARSH REALITY OF THE 
PANDEMIC KEEPING DINERS AWAY.
THIS TACO PLACE IS YET ANOTHER 
CASUALTY ON ITS LAST DAY.
>> LONGER IT GOES, THE HARDER IT
IS FOR SMALL PLACES.
I MEAN I'M SHOCKED THAT THEY 
DIDN'T -- THEY WEREN'T ABLE TO 
MAKE IT.
>> Reporter: THAT STRUGGLE FELT 
KEENLY IN THE EYEGLASS BUSINESS.
2020 WAS SUPPOSED TO BE A BIG 
YEAR FOR A SMALL BUSINESS THAT 
THIS WOMAN'S LATE FATHER OPENED 
50 YEARS AGO.
BUT THEY DIDN'T MAKE IT PAST 
MAY.
>> I WAS PROBABLY 80% DOWN IN 
REVENUE AND STILL TALLYING UP 
ALL MY BILLS WITH RENT AND 
TRYING TO MAKE PAYROLL, SO IT 
JUST -- YEAH THE WRITING WAS ON 
THE WALL.
>> Reporter: MORE THAN A MILLION
AMERICANS APPLIED FOR 
UNEMPLOYMENT LAST WEEK ADDING TO
A TALLY THAT IS NOW AT 50 
MILLION SINCE MID MARCH.
SOME IN STATES THAT ARE 
REVERTING TO STRICTER LOCKDOWN 
MEASURES ARE WORRIED THE HELP 
WON'T BE ENOUGH.
>> MY BUSINESS STILL HASN'T 
PICKED UP.
COVID SEEMS TO BE GETTING WORSE,
NOT BETTER.
>> Reporter: CONGRESS IS DIVIDED
OVER EXTENDING RELIEF WITH A 
$600 BOOST TO UNEMPLOYMENT SET 
TO END AT THE END OF THE MONTH.
AND THE SPEAKER OF THE HOUSE 
SAYS THAT'S JUST ONE PART OF THE
COUNTRY'S ABYSMAL RESPONSE TO 
THE PANDEMIC STARTING WITH THE 
PRESIDENT'S RHETORIC.
>> HE IS LIKE THE MAN WHO 
REFUSES TO ASK FOR DIRECTIONS.
>> Reporter: REFUSING, TOO, TO 
DWELL ON THE VIRUS SPREADING.
PREFERRING AN ECONOMIC MESSAGE 
INSTEAD.
TODAY PROMOTING DEREGULATORY 
MOVES THAT DONALD TRUMP BOASTS 
WILL BE KEY TO THE ECONOMIC 
RECOVERY.
>> President Donald Trump: NO 
ADMINISTRATION IN HISTORY HAS 
REMOVED MORE RED TAPE MORE 
QUICKLY TO RESCUE THE ECONOMY.
>> Reporter: THAT ECONOMIC 
MESSAGE TRACK A DIRECT RESPONSE 
TO THE POLLS THAT SHOW DONALD 
TRUMP'S POPULARITY IS SINKING 
WITH NO END IN SIGHT FOR A 
COUNTRY FULLY IN THE GRIPS OF A 
PANDEMIC.
SALIMAH SHIVJI, CBC NEWS, 
WASHINGTON.
>> Andrew: CANADA AND MANY 
EUROPEAN COUNTRIES MAY HAVE HAD 
SUCCESS IN BRINGING COVID-19 
CASES DOWN, BUT GLOBALLY, THE 
PANDEMIC IS TAKING UP SPEED.
MORE THAN 13 MILLION PEOPLE HAVE
TESTED POSITIVE FOR COVID-19.
THE PACE OF NEW CASES IS 200,000
A DAY.
THE HOT SPOTS ARE THE U.S., 
BRAZIL AND INDIA.
THE FOURTH IS SOUTH AFRICA.
AND AS MARGARET EVANS SHOWS US, 
EVERY DAY THERE BRINGS FRESH 
SIGNS OF DISASTER.
>> Reporter: THE STORM IS UPON 
US.
THAT IS THE MESSAGE FROM THE 
SOUTH AFRICAN GOVERNMENT TO ITS 
PEOPLE AS COVID-19 SPREADS ITS 
PAIN ACROSS THE COUNTRY.
TIME BOUGHT WITH AN EARLY 
LOCKDOWN IN MARCH HAS CAUGHT UP 
WITH SOUTH AFRICA.
MORE THAN 10,000 INFECTIONS 
REPORTED EVERY DAY NOW.
>> THIS IS A FIGHT TO SAVE EVERY
LIFE AND WE AT THE SAME TIME 
NEED TO SAVE EVERY BED IN OUR 
HEALTH FACILITIES.
>> Reporter: ON SUNDAY, THEY 
REIMPOSED A CURFEW AND BAN ON 
ALCOHOL IN A CLEAR BID TO SLOW 
THE VIRUS WITHOUT SHUTTING THE 
ECONOMY DOWN AGAIN.
>> WE ALWAYS KNEW THAT A 
LOCKDOWN FOR MORE THAN A FEW 
WEEKS WAS GOING TO BE 
UNSUSTAINABLE.
>> Reporter: THIS EPIDEMIOLOGIST
BELIEVES THE SCIENTISTS ADVISING
THE GOVERNMENT.
>> YOU HAVE TOO MANY PEOPLE 
WORKING IN THE SECTOR WHO ARE 
SELF-EMPLOYED.
>> Reporter: SOCIAL DISTANCING 
IS IMPOSSIBLE IN SOUTH AFRICA 
CRAMPED TOWNSHIPS AND INFORMAL 
SETTLEMENTS.
WATER AND SANITATION, SHARED AND
SCARCE.
THE PICTURE IS AN UNEVEN ONE, 
PROVINCE TO PROVINCE.
SOME COPING BETTER THAN OTHERS.
IN THE EASTERN CAPE, THE 
MILITARY HAS BEEN SENT IN, 
CONDITIONS SO BAD IN SOME 
HOSPITALS THAT DOCTORS AND 
NURSES ARE REFUSING TO WORK 
THERE.
CRITICS BLAME CORRUPTION SAYING 
THE PANDEMIC HAS LAID IT BARE.
>> HAVE TO EAT TO SURVIVE.
>> THE BEST WE CAN SAYS THIS 
DOCTOR.
>> WE'RE PROBABLY NOT GOING TO 
HAVE ENOUGH OF EVERYTHING 
BECAUSE YOU CAN ONLY PREPARE SO 
MUCH.
>> Reporter: AT A CERTAIN POINT,
HE SAYS, YOU MUST SIMPLY TURN 
AND FACE THE STORM.
MARGARET EVANS, CBC NEWS, 
LONDON.
>> Andrew: HERE IN CANADA, A 
SNAPSHOT OF HOW MANY PEOPLE MAY 
HAVE BEEN INFECTED AND NOT 
KNOWN.
THE RESULT OF THIS COUNTRY'S 
FIRST ANTIBODY STUDY.
AND QUESTIONS ABOUT WHO IS 
IMMUNE.
AND LATER, A SPECIAL TOWN HALL 
ABOUT MEDICAL ASSISTANCE IN 
DYING.
EXPERTS AND THE JUSTICE MINISTER
ANSWER YOUR QUESTIONS.
>> FAILED PEOPLE LIKE ME.
REAL PEOPLE WITH DEMENTIA -- 
WILL PEOPLE WITH DEMENTIA BE 
INCLUDED.
>> Andrew: FROM WHO IS COVERED 
TO HOW DECISIONS ARE MADE AND 
THE BAR PATIENTS NEED TO MEET.
>> I DON'T UNDERSTAND WHY YOU'VE
MADE THIS A
>> Andrew: WELCOME BACK.
QUÉBEC POLICE SAY THEY HAVE 
REASON TO BELIEVE MARTIN 
CARPENTIER IS STILL ALIVE.
EIGHT DAYS INTO THEIR SEARCH, 
AUTHORITIES SAY THERE ARE SIGNS 
THE 44-YEAR-OLD STOLE ITEMS FROM
A TRAILER IN THE DENSELY WOODED 
AREA THEY'VE BEEN SEARCHING.
MARTIN CARPENTIER IS WANTED IN 
CONNECTION WITH THE DEATH OF HIS
TWO YOUNG DAUGHTERS WHOSE BODIES
WERE FOUND SATURDAY.
HE'S SAID TO BE IN SURVIVAL MODE
AND MAY BE LOOKING FOR MATERIALS
OR FOOD TO STAY ALIVE.
>> WE NEED FEDERAL INTERVENTION 
ON THE LEGAL COMPONENTS OF THIS 
IN TERMS OF DECRIMINALIZATION 
AND WE NEED A NATIONAL PLAN, 
BECAUSE ALTHOUGH BRITISH 
COLUMBIA IS HIT HARD BY THIS, 
WE'RE NOT THE ONLY ONES IN THE 
COUNTRY.
>> Andrew: A CALL FOR HELP FROM 
JOHN HORGAN AS B.C. MARKED 
ANOTHER RECORD MONTH OF OVERDOSE
DEATHS.
175 PEOPLE DIED IN JUNE.
IT'S THE PROVINCE'S SECOND 
CONSECUTIVE RECORD-SETTING MONTH
OF SUCH DEATHS.
HORGAN SAYS IT'S CLEAR THE DRUG 
CRISIS IN B.C. IS GOING IN THE 
WRONG DIRECTION AND MORE NEEDS 
TO BE DONE.
>>> TO THE OTHER HEALTH CRISIS 
IN B.C.
GOOD NEWS, NO NEW COVID-RELATED 
DEATHS.
IT SHOWS THE EXTENT OF INFECTION
IN THE PROVINCE AND HOW 
EFFECTIVELY THE VIRUS HAS BEEN 
CONTAINED.
BRIAR STEWART HAS THE DETAILS.
>> Reporter: B.C. HAS BEEN 
PRAISED FOR ITS FLATTENING OF 
THE COVID CURVE AND SCIENTISTS 
HAVE A CLEARER PICTURE HOW FEW 
HAVE BEEN INFECTED IN THE 
COMMUNITY.
THEIR ESTIMATES, LESS THAN 1%.
THIS DOCTOR LED A TEAM THAT 
TESTED HUNDREDS OF ANONYMOUS 
BLOOD SAMPLES THAT WERE TAKEN 
FROM TESTING LABS IN THE LOWER 
MAINLAND.
THEY STARTED TESTING IN MARCH 
WHEN RESTRICTIONS WERE BEING 
ROLLED OUT AND THEN TESTED 
HUNDREDS MORE IN MAY WHEN THINGS
STARTED TO OPEN UP.
>> WHAT WE FOUND WAS ABOUT EIGHT
TIMES MORE INFECTIONS LIKELY 
THAN WE CAPTURED BY OUR 
SURVEILLANCE REPORTS.
THAT MIGHT SOUND LIKE A LOT, 
BUT, IN FACT, IT'S IN THE SAME 
BALLPARK AS OTHER AREAS.
>> Reporter: WHICH SHE SAYS B.C.
ISN'T UNDERCOUNTING CASES MORE 
THAN ELSEWHERE.
B.C.'S INFECTION RATE IS LOWER 
THAN OTHER JURISDICTIONS WHO DID
SEROLOGICAL TESTING.
IN SPAIN, THEY ESTIMATED IT WAS 
5%.
ONE IN NEW YORK STATE FOUND IT 
WAS AROUND 12.5%.
IN THE COMING DAYS, THERE WILL 
BE AN ESTIMATE AROUND CANADA'S 
NATIONAL INFECTION RATE.
THE TASK FORCE IS DOING A LARGER
STUDY, TESTING 40,000 SAMPLES OF
DONATED BLOOD FOR COVID 
ANTIBODIES.
EXPERTS SAY THESE TYPE OF 
STUDIES ARE HELPFUL TO GAUGE HOW
AREAS ARE MANAGING TRANSMISSION.
>> IT HELPS AT THE MOMENT 
BECAUSE WE STILL DON'T KNOW THE 
PROPORTION OF INFECTIONS WHERE 
PEOPLE DON'T HAVE SYMPTOMS OR 
HAVE MILD SYMPTOMS.
>> Reporter: BUT EVEN ONCE AN 
ESTIMATE AROUND HOW MANY HAVE 
BEEN INFECTED, THERE ARE STILL 
UNKNOWNS.
>> WE DON'T YET KNOW WHETHER 
HAVING THESE ANTIBODIES MEANS 
YOU'RE IMMUNE FROM THIS VIRUS.
>> Reporter: CONSIDERING THAT 
THE VAST MAJORITY HERE HAVE 
NEVER HAD THE VIRUS, HEALTH 
OFFICIALS ARE REMINDING PEOPLE 
THEY'RE STILL AT RISK AND THE 
INFECTION RATES CAN GROW IF 
THEY'RE NOT CAREFUL.
BRIAR STEWART, CBC NEWS, 
VANCOUVER.
>> Andrew: UP NEXT, WE'RE 
BRINGING SOMETHING DIFFERENT.
A SPECIAL TOWN HALL WITH THE 
MINISTER OF JUSTICE.
>> YOU'RE STILL NOT GIVING THE 
PATIENT THE ABILITY TO SAY FOR 
THEMSELVES CAN I HAVE MEDICALLY 
ASSISTED DEATH?
>> Andrew: WHO HAS ACCESS
>> Andrew: WELCOME BACK.
COVID-19 CHANGED OUR LIVES AND 
IT CHANGED DEATH IN THIS 
COUNTRY, TOO.
MEDICAL ASSISTANCE IT DYING, 
KNOWN AS MAID, WAS AFFECTED.
SOME HOSPITALS TEMPORARILY 
RESTRICTED SERVICES.
P.P.E. AND PHYSICAL DISTANCING 
MADE PROCEDURES HARDER.
AND THE PRESENCE OF FAMILY 
MEMBERS WAS LIMITED.
THESE ARE ALL LAYERS ON WHAT WAS
ALREADY A COMPLEX DEEPLY 
PERSONAL ISSUE.
EARLIER THIS YEAR, ABOUT EVER 
THE PANDEMIC -- BEFORE THE 
PANDEMIC, WE INVITED A GROUP OF 
CANADIANS TO PUT THEIR QUESTIONS
TO THE MINISTER OF JUSTICE, 
DAVID LAMETTI, ABOUT WHO HAS 
ACCESS TO MAID AND WHO DOESN'T.
HERE NOW IS THE CONVERSATION.
[ * ]
>> TODAY I'M FEELING ANGRY.
>> TODAY I'M FEELING CONCERNED.
>> CONFLICTED.
>> HOPEFUL.
>> THIS IS COMPLICATED.
>> Andrew: IN THE DAYS AND WEEKS
AND MONTHS BEFORE THE COVID-19 
PANDEMIC HIT, ANOTHER PUBLIC 
HEALTH DISCUSSION WAS HAPPENING 
IN THIS COUNTRY.
ONE OF LIFE-AND-DEATH.
SPECIFICALLY, MEDICAL ASSISTANCE
IN DYING OR MAID.
IN THE LAST FOUR YEARS, MORE 
THAN 13,000 PEOPLE HAVE CHOSEN 
TO END THEIR LIVES THAT WAY, BUT
IT AFFECTS SO MANY MORE.
WHEN A QUÉBEC COURT DECISION 
FORCED THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT TO
CHANGE THE LAW, IT LAUNCHED 
ONLINE CONSULTATIONS BACK IN 
JANUARY.
AND IN TWO WEEKS, MORE THAN 
300,000 CANADIANS RESPONDED.
PART OF WHAT EMERGED.
A LIST OF PROPOSED CHANGES FROM 
THE GOVERNMENT AFFECTING WHO IS 
ELIGIBLE AND WHEN.
>> WE'RE TALKING ABOUT PEOPLE.
PEOPLE WHO ARE SUFFERING.
>> Andrew: TO QUALIFY FOR 
MEDICAL ASSISTANCE IN DYING, A 
PERSON WOULD STILL NEED TO BE 
SUFFERING FROM A SERIOUS 
INCURABLE ILLNESS, DISEASE OR 
DISABILITY, BUT NO LONGER WOULD 
THEIR DEATH OTHERWISE HAVE TO BE
REASONABLY FORESEEABLE AND NO 
LONGER WOULD THEY HAVE TO GIVE 
FINAL CONSENT AT THE MOMENT 
THEIR LIFE WAS TO END.
WHICH WAS A FEAR THAT PEOPLE 
MIGHT LOSE THAT ABILITY AS THE 
DISEASE GOT WORSE AND WORSE.
THE LEGISLATION IS NOW BEFORE 
PARLIAMENT.
AND A FULL REVIEW OF THE LAW WAS
SCHEDULED FOR JUNE.
WHEN THE PANDEMIC HIT, THAT 
MOVED TO LATER.
>> I NEED TO ASK THIS.
>> THIS IS DIFFICULT.
>> THIS IS COMPLICATED.
>> THIS IS PERSONAL.
>> Andrew: AND IN MARCH, WE PUT 
THOSE QUESTIONS TO THE EXPERTS 
AS PART OF THE NATIONAL 
CONVERSATION.
>> Andrew: JOINING ME TODAY.
FEDERAL JUSTICE MINISTER, DAVID 
LAMETTI.
A BIO ETHICS EXPERT AND 
PROFESSOR.
DR. MADELEINE LI, A PSYCHIATRIST
WORKING IN END OF LIFE CARE.
AND SUSAN DESJARDINS WITH A 
PATIENT RIGHTS GROUP.
THANK YOU TO ALL OF YOU FOR 
BEING HERE.
LET'S GET TO THE FIRST QUESTION.
>> I WATCHED MY MOTHER DIE A 
SLOW, PAINFUL DEATH.
MY BROTHER AND I WERE THE POWER 
OF ATTORNEYS.
AND WE WERE ABLE TO STOP FOOD, 
STOP WATER, STOP HER OXYGEN, BUT
I COULDN'T STOP HER SUFFERING.
SO MY QUESTION IS, WILL OR WHEN 
WILL THE MAID BE AVAILABLE TO A 
POWER OF ATTORNEY TO MAKE THOSE 
DECISIONS?
>> THANK YOU FOR THE QUESTION.
I UNDERSTAND WHAT YOU WENT 
THROUGH, HAVING GONE THROUGH A 
SIMILAR THING WITH MY MOTHER.
POWER OF ATTORNEY IS DELEGATING 
DECISION-MAKING AND THAT IS 
SOMETHING THAT WE WILL LOOK AT 
WITH RESPECT TO ADVANCE REQUESTS
IN THE SUMMER REVIEW.
AND LOOKING AT, IN PARTICULAR 
SITUATIONS OF COGNITIVE MENTAL 
DECLINE LIKE DEMENTIA.
FOR THE TIME BEING, THE LAW 
FOCUSES ON THE INDIVIDUAL'S 
CONSENT.
THE INDIVIDUAL MAKING A CHOICE.
WE STILL AREN'T AT THE STAGE 
WHERE POWER OF ATTORNEY WILL BE 
ABLE TO BE USED, BUT IT IS 
SOMETHING THAT COULD BE 
CONSIDERED DOWN THE ROAD AS PART
OF THAT LARGER REVIEW.
>> Andrew: WHY IS IT ANY 
DIFFERENT WHERE A PERSON CAN 
MAKE THE CHOICE TO WITHDRAW LIFE
SUPPORT VERSUS MAKING THE CHOICE
TO ADMINISTER MAID?
THEY ACCOMPLISH THE SAME THING, 
EXCEPT ONE IS SLOWER.
>> ONE ENDS SUFFERING AND ONE 
DOESN'T.
ONE EXTENDS IT.
>> I THINK WE'RE ALL TRYING TO 
ELIMINATE OR REDUCE SUFFERING 
WHERE WE CAN AND I THINK THAT'S 
ONE OF THE THINGS THAT IS 
MOTIVATING -- CERTAINLY ME AND 
PUSHING FORTH THIS LEGISLATION.
THERE HAVE BEEN A NUMBER OF 
TRADITIONAL DOCTRINES AND 
RELIGIOUS DOCTRINES TOO THAT 
DISTINGUISH BETWEEN WITHDRAWING 
TREATMENT OR WITHHOLDING 
TREATMENT UNDER CERTAIN 
CIRCUMSTANCES AND ACTIVELY DOING
SOMETHING TO END A PERSON'S 
LIFE.
AND SO THESE ARE ETHICALLY 
CHARGED ISSUES.
THESE ARE -- THEY'RE COMPLEX.
AND SO THESE ARE QUESTIONS WE 
WILL LOOK AT, BUT THEY'RE NOT 
EASY.
THEY'RE REALLY NOT EASY.
>> Andrew: THANK YOU VERY MUCH 
FOR THE QUESTION.
APPRECIATE IT.
OUR NEXT QUESTION COMES FROM 
JUSTINE.
I WANT YOU TO HAVE A LOOK.
>> HI, I'M 29 YEARS OLD, AND I 
WOULD BE LOOKING TO ACCESS 
MEDICAL ASSISTANCE IN DYING AT 
SOME POINT IN THE NEAR FUTURE IF
I'M APPROVED.
I HAVE CHRONIC PAIN MY WHOLE 
LIFE, BUT IT GOT DEBILITATING 
AROUND 18, AT WHICH POINT THE 
IDEA OF FIBROMYALGIA WAS FLOATED
AROUND.
I CAN'T WORK.
I CAN'T HAVE FUN.
I CAN'T BARELY LEAVE THE HOUSE.
SO FAR I'VE HAD THREE MAID 
ASSESSMENTS.
THE FIRST TWO WERE DENIALS AND 
THE THIRD ONE IS PENDING AN 
OFFICIAL ANSWER.
NONE OF THEM WERE EXPERTS IN MY 
CONDITION.
I HAVEN'T MET ANY FIBROMYALGIA 
SPECIALIST WHO SUPPORT MAID FOR 
PATIENTS.
BECAUSE THE PEOPLE WHO SPENT 
THEIR WHOLE LIVES WORKING ON 
THIS IS WHAT THEY'RE GOING TO 
SAY IS JUST KEEP WAITING, KEEP 
WAITING FOR A CURE TO BE 
INVENTED, BUT I CAN'T WAIT FOR 
MUCH LONGER.
[ * ]
>> Andrew: JUSTINE CAN'T BE HERE
TODAY, BUT HER PARTNER, JASON, 
IS HERE IN HER STEAD ON HER 
BEHALF.
THANK YOU FOR BEING HERE.
>> THANK YOU.
>> Andrew: WHAT IS YOUR 
QUESTION?
>> WHAT DO YOU INTEND TO DO WHEN
THERE IS NOT A MAID ASSESSOR WHO
IS AN EXPERT IN THE PATIENT'S 
CONDITION?
>> SO, THANK YOU, JASON, AND 
THANK YOU, JUSTINE.
THE QUESTION IS A GOOD ONE.
GLAD YOU ASKED.
THE EXPERT ASSESSMENT IS NOT -- 
WE'RE NOT REQUIRING A 
SPECIALIST.
WE HEARD FROM PEOPLE IN THE 
CONSULTATIONS, PARTICULARLY FROM
REMOTE COMMUNITIES, THAT FELT 
THIS MIGHT BECOME A BARRIER IF 
WE REQUIRED A SPECIALIST.
RATHER, IT'S SOMEBODY WITH SOME 
LEVEL OF EXPERTISE IN THE 
CONDITION.
YOU KNOW, THERE ARE TWO MEDICAL 
ASSESSORS WHO ARE LOOKING INTO 
THE FILE.
HOPEFULLY ONE OF THEM WILL HAVE 
ACCESS TO A NETWORK OF PEOPLE --
AGAIN IT DOESN'T HAVE TO BE A 
SPECIALIST.
>> I'M SORRY, I DON'T WANT TO BE
RUDE OR INTERRUPT.
FROM MY PERSPECTIVE, I THINK THE
BEST EXPERT IN A PATIENT'S 
CONDITION IS THE PATIENT.
AND TO PUT THE DECISION ON THE 
SHOULDERS OF SOMEONE WHO DOESN'T
NECESSARILY HAVE A THOROUGH 
KNOWLEDGE OF THEIR MEDICAL 
BACKGROUND OR THE SUFFERING THAT
THIS PERSON HAS GONE THROUGH, I 
DON'T UNDERSTAND WHY YOU'VE MADE
THIS A REQUIREMENT.
>> Andrew: MAYBE IF YOU CAN 
WEIGH IN ON THAT.
IN PRACTISE, DO YOU SEE THIS AS 
BEING SUCH AN ONEROUS 
REQUIREMENT THAT IT ACTUALLY 
HINDERS THE PROCESS?
>> I WAS GLAD TO HAVE IT 
CLARIFIED THAT IT WAS EXPERTISE 
AND NOT A SPECIALIST THAT IS 
REQUIRED, BECAUSE I THINK THAT 
WOULD BE ONEROUS AND A REAL 
BARRIER IF YOU REQUIRED A 
SPECIALIST TO BE A MAID 
ASSESSOR.
FOR SOMETHING LIKE FIBROMYALGIA,
THERE ISN'T REALLY A SPECIALIST.
THEY OFTEN HAVE RHEUMATOLOGISTS,
NEUROLOGISTS, PAIN SPECIALISTS, 
MULTIPLE DOCTORS INVOLVED.
SO WHO IS THE EXPERT IN THAT?
>> WELL, MY PERSPECTIVE IS THAT,
WITH THIS CRITERIA, EVEN WITH 
THE PROPOSED AMENDMENTS, YOU'RE 
STILL NOT GIVING THE PATIENT THE
ABILITY TO SAY FOR THEMSELVES, 
CAN I HAVE A MEDICALLY ASSISTED 
DEATH?
THE GOVERNMENT IS STILL SAYING, 
HOLD UP, NO YOU CAN'T.
>> THERE IS A REASON FOR THAT.
YOU HAVE TO UNDERSTAND THAT 
MEDICALLY DYING IS DEPARTURE 
FROM NORMAL TREATMENT.
IT MEANS THE END OF THE PERSON.
IF THERE ARE CHANCES FOR THE 
PERSON TO GET BETTER, WE REALLY 
WANT TO EXPLORE THAT.
THERE ARE SIGNIFICANT CASE 
REPORTS, FOR EXAMPLE, COMPLEX 
DISEASES, WHERE A SECOND 
ASSESSMENT BY A MAID ASSESSOR 
WHO SPECIALIZED IN THE CONDITION
THAT THE PERSON HAD DISCOVERED 
THAT THE PERSON WHO HAS BEEN 
SUFFERING FOR EIGHT YEARS WAS 
GIVING UP ON LIFE, HAS A SECOND 
ASSESSMENT, REASSESSES THE 
PERSON AND SAYS THERE IS A 
MISDIAGNOSIS.
THEY FOUND TREATMENT.
THE PERSON'S DESIRE FOR MAID 
DROPPED.
>> Andrew: I THINK WHAT IS 
ABUNDANTLY CLEAR HERE, THE 
BALANCE THAT HAS TO BE STRUCK IS
INCREDIBLY DELICATE AND 
FRUSTRATING AS WELL.
I HEAR THAT.
WE'LL HAVE TO LEAVE IT THERE.
STAY WITH US.
WE'LL HAVE MORE QUESTIONS AFTER 
THE BREAK.
[ * ]
 
IN THE WORLD, THEN HE 
DISAPPEARED FROM PUBLIC LIFE.
[ * ]
>> Andrew: WELCOME BACK.
WE'RE HERE IN "THE NATIONAL" 
STUDIO TAKING QUESTIONS ABOUT 
MEDICAL ASSISTANCE IN DYING.
OUR NEXT QUESTION FROM RON.
TELL THEM ABOUT YOURSELF AND 
YOUR QUESTION.
>> I'M PLEASED TO HAVE THIS 
OPPORTUNITY.
EXTRAORDINARY CHANCE FOR 
ORDINARY PEOPLE IN CANADA TO 
TALK ABOUT A VERY SERIOUS ISSUE.
I HAVE DEMENTIA.
I WAS ASSESSED FOUR YEARS AGO.
UNFORTUNATELY, MINISTER LAMETTI,
WHEN THE BILL CAME DOWN IN 2016,
MAID WAS CONSTRUCTED TO BE A 
FAILURE.
AND IT FAILED PEOPLE LIKE ME.
WHY DID WE LIMIT OR TAKE OUT ANY
CONSIDERATION OF PEOPLE WITH 
DEMENTIA?
WE HAVE 10-15 YEARS IN WHICH I 
CAN MAKE A DECISION AS TO WHEN 
AND HOW I WANT TO DIE.
WILL PEOPLE WITH DEMENTIA BE 
INCLUDED IN THIS REVIEW WE HAVE 
COMING UP?
>> IN 2016, WHEN THE FIRST 
LEGISLATION CAME OUT, I WAS 
LOSING MY MOTHER TO DEMENTIA.
SO I UNDERSTAND.
UNDERSTAND THE PERSONAL 
DIMENSION OF IT.
YES, WE'RE SUPPOSED TO LOOK AT 
DEMENTIA, OTHER FORMS OF 
COGNITIVE DECLINE IN THE REVIEW.
>> Andrew: WHEN YOU TALK ABOUT 
THIS PARTICULAR BILL, IT'S BEEN 
EXPRESSLY EXCLUDED.
PEOPLE FOR WHOM THEIR SOLE 
UNDERLYING MEDICAL CONDITION IS 
A MENTAL ILLNESS.
AND A LOT OF PEOPLE ARE ASKING 
THE QUESTION, WHY?
>> WE HEARD AROUND THE TABLE 
AGAIN AND AGAIN AND AGAIN, 
PARTICULARLY FROM MAID 
PROVIDERS, MEDICAL HEALTH 
PROFESSIONALS, THAT WE WEREN'T 
READY YET AS A SOCIETY.
LET'S LEAVE THIS FOR -- THIS 
COMPLEX QUESTION FOR THE SUMMER 
REVIEW.
>> WE'LL HAVE TO LEAVE THAT PART
OF THE CONVERSATION THERE.
RON, THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR THE 
QUESTION.
APPRECIATE THAT.
OUR NEXT QUESTION COMES FROM 
GLEN JOHNSON HERE FROM OTTAWA.
>> THANK YOU.
I SUFFER FROM CHRONIC PAIN BUT I
ALSO HAVE MENTAL HEALTH ISSUES 
AND SUFFER FROM PTSD.
PAIN IS PAIN.
SUFFERING IS SUFFERING.
THERE IS NO FORESEEABLE END TO 
EITHER OF MY CHRONIC PAIN OR 
MENTAL HEALTH ISSUES.
WHY ARE PEOPLE LIKE ME NOT ABLE 
TO ACCESS MAID?
>> WE KNOW THAT MENTAL HEALTH 
ISSUES ARE SERIOUS MEDICAL 
ISSUES AND THE PAIN THAT IS 
CAUSED IS SERIOUS AND SUFFERING 
INTOLERABLE.
I THINK THE SHORT ANSWER IS WE 
HAD MEANT TO STUDY THIS MORE 
DEEPLY STARTING IN JUNE OF THIS 
YEAR AND WE HEARD AROUND THE 
TABLE THAT PARTICULARLY FROM 
MEDICAL HEALTH PROFESSIONALS, 
THAT IT WAS SO COMPLEX THAT WE 
WEREN'T READY YET.
>> IT'S ALSO A HUMAN RIGHT, A 
RIGHT TO CHOICE.
>> I KNOW THAT.
AND WE'RE GOING TO PUSH PRETTY 
HARD BECAUSE OF THAT.
WE NEED TO GET TO THAT ANSWER AS
SOON AS WE CAN.
>> I FEEL LIKE THE ONE ANSWER 
YOU WANT TO GET.
WHAT IS THE TIMELINE, RIGHT?
WHEN DOES THIS PLIGHT BECOME THE
ISSUE THAT GETS SHOVELOLVED?
>> WE'RE STAT STARTING IT NOW 
WHICH IS GREAT.
IT GOT PEOPLE TO BEGIN TO THINK 
ABOUT IT.
AND SOCIETY HAS COME A LONG WAY 
WITH RESPECT TO MENTAL HEALTH IN
THE LAST DECADE, BUT I CAN'T 
PROMISE A TIME LINE.
I CAN ONLY PROMISE TO DO MY BEST
AS LONG AS I'M IN THIS ROLE TO 
PUSH THIS DISCUSSION FORWARD.
>> Andrew: SUSAN, WHERE DO YOU 
SIT ON THIS?
>> WE ARE VERY CONCERNED ABOUT 
THE EXCLUSION OF INDIVIDUALS 
WITH MENTAL ILLNESS.
I'M GLAD TO HEAR THAT WOULD BE 
CONSIDERED IN THE REVIEW.
AND I THINK IT REALLY HAS TO BE 
SERIOUSLY CONSIDERED, BECAUSE 
THE RULING SO FAR HAS MADE IT 
CLEAR THAT YOU CANNOT EXCLUDE 
GROUPS OF PEOPLE BASED ON THEIR 
DIAGNOSIS.
AND THAT COULD BE FOUND TO BE 
UNCONSTITUTIONAL, INFRINGING 
THEIR RIGHTS AND FURTHER 
STIGMATIZING THOSE INDIVIDUALS.
SO WE REALLY NEED TO HEAR FROM 
INDIVIDUALS WITH LIVED 
EXPERIENCE.
AND WE NEED TO HEAR FROM 
PROFESSIONALS AS WELL TO 
DETERMINE HOW WE CAN DO 
APPROPRIATE ASSESSMENTS ON A 
CASE-BY-CASE BASIS WHATEVER 
THEIR PAIN AND SUFFERING AN AND 
CONDITION MAY BE.
>> Andrew: WHAT IS THE WAY 
FORWARD ON THIS ISSUE?
>> YOU KNOW, I AGREE THAT 
SUFFERING IS SUFFERING AND THAT 
IT CONTRIBUTES TO STIGMATIZATION
TO EXCLUDE MENTAL ILLNESS, BUT I
ALSO AGREE IT'S EXTRAORDINARILY 
CHALLENGING.
HOW DO WE KNOW IF A REQUEST IS A
RATIONAL REQUEST OR IF IT'S 
DRIVEN MORE IRRATIONAL 
MOTIVATION?
HOW DO WE SEPARATE SUICIDE FROM 
A RATIONAL REQUEST TO DIE?
IT'S BEEN ALMOST IMPOSSIBLE TO 
DISTINGUISH BECAUSE THEY HAVE 
RATIONAL AND IRRATIONAL REASONS 
FOR WANTING TO DIE.
SEVERAL CASE ELSE -- WHAT IT'S 
TAKEN IS THEM ACCEPTING 
TREATMENT FOR THE DEPRESSION.
AND AFTER THE DEPRESSION IS 
CLEARED, IT BECOMES CLEARER TO 
THE PROVIDER WHAT THE BASIS OF 
THE REQUEST IS.
I'VE HAD PATIENTS WHO CHANGED 
THEIR MIND AFTER AND DIDN'T 
CHANGE THEIR MIND.
THAT'S WHY WE NEED THE RESEARCH.
>> I WOULD LIKE TO TAKE THIS 
OPPORTUNITY TO REMIND ALL THE 
FOLKS LISTENING TO THESE STORIES
SHARED ON VERY DIFFICULT SUBJECT
MATTER, THERE IS HELP IF YOU 
FEEL THAT YOU NEED SOMEONE TO 
TALK TO.
IT'S OUT THERE.
YOU CAN CALL OR TEXT CRISIS 
SERVICES CANADA, OR YOU CAN 
VISIT THEM ONLINE.
OKAY.
OUR NEXT QUESTION COMES FROM 
SARA.
SHE'S AN ORGANIZER WITH THE 
DISABILITY JUSTICE NETWORK OF 
ONTARIO.
SARA, YOU HAVE THE MIC.
>> THANK YOU FOR HAVING ME.
I WANT TO KNOW WHAT THE REMOVAL 
OF THE FORESEEABLE PORTION OF 
MAID, HOW WE'LL MAKE SURE THAT 
ACCESS TO MADE WON'T 
DISPROPORTIONATELY IMPACT 
RACIALIZED AND INDIGENOUS 
COMMUNITIES WHO FEEL THEY'RE NOT
SUPPORTED TO LIVE FULLY 
SUSTAINED LIVES?
HOW ARE WE GOING TO MAKE SURE 
THEY DON'T FEEL PRESSURE TO 
ACCESS MAID BECAUSE THEY FEEL 
LIKE BURDENS ON THE STATES?
>> THE SOCIAL DETERMINATES OF A 
PERSON'S CONDITION ARE 
CRITICALLY IMPORTANT.
WE HEARD THAT TIME AND TIME 
AGAIN IN THE ROUNDTABLES, 
INCLUDING THE ROUNDTABLE 
SPECIFICALLY AIMED AT INDIGENOUS
PEOPLE AND INDIGENOUS SERVICE 
PROVIDERS.
AND SO IF MAID IS GOING TO WORK,
IT HAS TO BE A CHOICE, AN 
INFORMED CHOICE.
AND IT HAS TO BE A CHOICE 
AMONGST GOOD ALTERNATIVES OR AT 
LEAST, YOU KNOW, AMONGST THE 
LEAST WORST ALTERNATIVES IN THE 
SENSE THAT WE NEED TO WORK ON 
THE CONDITIONS IN WHICH PEOPLE 
LIVE.
SO THAT IF THEY DO MAKE THE 
DECISION TO GET MAID, IT WILL BE
BECAUSE IT'S THE RIGHT DECISION.
>> Andrew: I STILL DON'T 
UNDERSTAND HOW YOU BUILD INTO 
THE LEGISLATION -- BUILD INTO 
THE MAID INFRASTRUCTURE, SOME 
KIND OF WAY TO MITIGATE THIS 
CONCERN?
THAT IN LOWERING THE BARRIERS 
YOU'RE PERHAPS OPENING THE DOOR 
TO THOSE WHO ARE MOST 
VULNERABLE.
AND MAYBE IT IS THOSE FOLKS WHO 
WILL DISPROPORTIONATELY BE 
ASKING FOR THIS.
>> THE RIGHTS OF PEOPLE WITH 
DISABILITIES JUST ISSUED A 
REPORT LAST WEEK IN WHICH IT 
STATES EXPLICITLY, CHRONIC 
ILLNESS SHOULD NEVER BE A BASIS 
FOR FACILITATING -- IN OTHER 
WORDS, PROMOTING BY THE STATE, 
ACCESS TO PREMATURE DEATH.
THIS IS ACTUALLY WHAT THE NEW 
LAW WILL DO.
AND I SEE, AS A SCHOLAR, THERE 
ARE ATTEMPTS TO INTRODUCE 
SAFEGUARDS IN TERMS OF THERE HAS
TO BE 90-DAY WAITING PERIOD, 
THAT PHYSICIANS HAVE TO PROVIDE 
INFORMATION ABOUT THE AVAILABLE 
RESOURCES AND THAT THEY HAVE TO 
LOOK AT WHETHER THE PERSON HAS 
SERIOUSLY CONSIDERED 
ALTERNATIVES TO HAVING THEIR 
LIFE ENDED.
90 DAYS IS NOTHING TO TURN 
PEOPLE'S LIVES WITH A SERIOUS 
DISABILITY OR CHRONIC ILLNESS 
AROUND.
>> Andrew: SARA, THANK YOU FOR 
THAT.
THAT WAS AN EXCELLENT QUESTION.
OKAY, WHEN WE COME BACK.
MORE OF "THE NATIONAL" 
CONVERSATION.
STAY WITH US.
[ * ]
[ * ]
>> Andrew: WELCOME BACK.
I'M ANDREW CHANG.
THIS IS "THE NATIONAL" 
CONVERSATION ON MEDICAL 
ASSISTANCE IN DYING.
LET'S GET TO THE NEXT QUESTION.
>> HI, I'M A DOCTOR.
I WORK AS A PALLIATIVE CARE 
DOCTOR.
MY PRACTISE ESPECIALLY FOCUSES 
ON COMMUNITIES WHO ARE 
VULNERABLE, INCLUDING THOSE WHO 
ARE HOMELESS AND COUNTLESS MORE 
WHO ARE AT RISK OF HOMELESSNESS.
A PROGRAMME CALLED PEACH, 
PALLIATIVE EDUCATION AND CARE 
FOR THE HOMELESS, A MOBILE 
STREET AND SHELTER-BASED 
PALLIATIVE CARE PROGRAMME THAT 
PUTS OUR TEAM ON THE FRONT LINES
OF THE HOMELESSNESS CRISIS AND 
OPIOID OVERDOSE CRISIS.
I'M PARTICULARLY INTERESTED IN 
TODAY'S DISCUSSION AROUND 
EQUITABLE ACCESS TO PALLIATIVE 
CARE.
>> Andrew: IMMENSE WORK THAT YOU
DO.
>> THANK YOU.
>> Andrew: WHAT IS THE QUESTION 
YOU'D LIKE TO ASK.
>> WHILE I APPRECIATE THE 
IMPORTANCE OF DISCUSSING MEDICAL
ASSISTANCE IN DYING AT THIS 
TIME, THIS TIME ALSO PRESENTS A 
UNIQUE OPPORTUNITY TO TALK ABOUT
THE BENEFITS OF PALLIATIVE CARE 
DURING ALL STAGES OF AN ILLNESS,
NOT JUST AT THE END OF LIFE.
AND I DO WANT TO REMIND EVERYONE
IN THE ROOM THAT THE W.H.O. HAS 
RECOGNIZED PALLIATIVE CARE AS A 
HUMAN RIGHT AND WE STILL LIVE IN
A COUNTRY WHERE THE VAST 
MAJORITY OF CANADIANS DO NOT 
HAVE ACCESS TO PALLIATIVE CARE.
>> I AGREE WITH YOU, WE NEED 
MORE PALLIATIVE CARE RESOURCES.
FOR MAID, IT'S NOT AN EITHER-OR 
SITUATION.
IT'S ACTUALLY BOTH-AND.
WE KNOW FROM THE LATEST REPORT, 
THERE WAS A PAPER PUSH 
MALITIAED  --  THAT 75% IN MAID 
ARE RECEIVING PALLIATIVE CARE.
>> IT'S A QUESTION OF 
PRIORITIZATION.
IT'S CLEAR THAT THE PRIORITY 
SHOULD BE ON THE RIGHT TO HEALTH
CARE, THE RIGHT TO HAVE ACCESS 
TO ADEQUATE CARE.
THAT MEDICAL AID IN DYING IN ANY
JURISDICTION THAT INTRODUCES IT,
IT IS SEEN AS AN EXCEPTIONAL 
MEASURE TO FACILITATE THE 
TRANSITION BETWEEN LIFE AND 
DEATH.
WE'RE NOW RESPONDING THAT IN AN 
AREA WHERE DECISION-MAKING IS 
VERY COMPLEX.
ALL OF THIS MAKES ME CONCERNED 
ABOUT, ARE WE PRIORITIZING, 
INDEED, ALLOWING PEOPLE TO LIVE 
THEIR LIFE TO THE FULLEST 
POSSIBLE WITH THE BEST POSSIBLE 
HEALTH CARE SUPPORT?
OR ARE WE SEEING, FOR ONE REASON
OR ANOTHER, MEDICAL AID IN DYING
IS A MAGICAL SOLUTION FOR 
SUFFERING IN LIFE?
>> Andrew: THIS PUSH AND PULL IS
CORE TO EVERYTHING YOU'VE 
CONSIDERED.
>> WELL, OUR MISSION IS TO 
IMPROVE THE QUALITY OF DYING.
AND THAT DOES NOT -- IT'S NOT 
LIMITED TO ASSISTED DYING, IT'S 
INCLUDING ACCESS TO PALLIATIVE 
CARE.
AND IF I CAN BE A LITTLE 
PERSONAL, I'VE HAD THE 
OPPORTUNITY TO ACCOMPANY A 
FAMILY MEMBER THROUGH TREATMENT 
AND SHE HAD ACCOMPANIED HER 
SPOUSE THROUGH ALS.
AND FOR YEARS HAD SAID TO ME, I 
AM NOT DYING THAT WAY.
SO HE HAD THE OPPORTUNITY TO 
REQUEST AN ASSISTED DEATH AND 
FOR HER, IT WAS THE RIGHT 
DECISION AND THE RIGHT CHOICE 
AND GAVE HER BACK SOME OF THAT 
CONTROL OVER HOW HER LIFE ENDED.
AND MADE IT A MUCH BETTER DEATH 
FOR HER AND FOR THOSE OF US WHO 
ACCOMPANIED HER.
>> Andrew: THANK YOU.
[ * ]
>> THERE WERE MANY MORE 
QUESTIONS ON ASSISTED DYING FROM
ACROSS THE COUNTRY, INCLUDING 
THESE.
>> I WAS DIAGNOSED SEVEN YEARS 
AGO WITH EARLY ON SET 
ALZHEIMER'S.
>> HOW MANY PEOPLE LIVING WITH 
DISEASE ARE INCLUDED IN YOUR 
REVIEW?
>> WHAT STEPS ARE TAKEN TO OFFER
PROTECTION FOR OTHERS WHO ARE 
VULNERABLE TO ALL THIS 
PSYCHOLOGICAL AND EMOTIONAL 
CONSEQUENCES OF PARTICIPATING IN
A MEDICALLY ASSISTED DEATH WHEN 
IT'S AGAINST THEIR CONSCIENCE.
>> Andrew: YOU CAN WATCH THE 
FULL CONVERSATION ON CBC NEWS 
NETWORK THIS WEEKEND.
I DO HOPE YOU'LL TUNE IN.
YOU'LL HEAR MORE QUESTIONS, BUT 
ALSO THE FULL RANGE OF ANSWERS 
FROM THE PANELISTS TO THE 
QUESTIONS THAT YOU DID HEAR.
OKAY.
THAT DOES IT FOR US.
THAT'S "THE NATIONAL" FOR THIS 
THURSDAY, JULY 16TH.
HAVE A GOOD NIGHT.
[ * ]
