 
**Bapticost:**

**At the Crossroads**

**(Act I)**

Jesse Steele

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**Copyright © 2012 Jesse Steele**

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Jesse Steele on Smashwords

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#  **For Joe, Scott, and Michi**
### Table of Contents

For Joe, Scott, and Michi

Introduction

Note to Thespians and Theologians

Scene 1: I Met Jesus Before I Got to Class

Scene 2: Denumeration

Scene 3: Second Focus of Wesley

Scene 4: Greek to Me

Scene 5: Three

Scene 6: Soul Food

Scene 7: Relationship Works

Scene 8: Revelate

Theatrical Permissions

About the Author

#  **Introduction**

A Charismatic friend and I were standing in his kitchen a few years back, nearly drowning in repartee. I was leaning towards the notion that Christians may see an increase in opposition before Jesus returns. My friend couldn't even consider the idea. Suddenly I realized that it wasn't the "opposition" he had a problem with, but that I hadn't mentioned "prosperity." The word "prosper" is in Joshua 1:8, so he is right to believe in it. I finally interjected, "I wouldn't say that Christians won't prosper, but I won't say we won't face opposition either. As God's people face difficulty, all the more will He grace us with power to overcome and have prosperity and victory even in the midst of the struggle." We both agreed and at that point felt our kinship in the Lord grow deeper.

This was merely one of hundreds of conversations I've had with many people in the Body of Christ. We know the importance of valuing the human heart simply from the fact that God loves us all. He knows our deep desires and inner passions. Perhaps we can have close fellowship with each other as we know more about each other's "questions behind the questions" and see past what may not always be the best choice of words.

Especially since the Promise Keepers movement in the 1990's, our desire for reconciliation across Christian denominational lines has ever increased. Many Christian leaders have tried to achieve such reconciliation by way of "simple doctrine agreements". Some of them may say, more or less, "We do not agree on all five of these issues, but we agree on three of them, so let's sign a statement of faith with three points between us. Then we can each keep our separate statements of faith for all the other issues." Many discussions followed that model and were all in a good spirit, but it didn't lead to any lasting reconciliation. "Least common denominator" is still about "less" and "division" (denominator.) The solution is to spend enough "fellowship" time together, not just "debating" time, no matter how friendly the debating time may be. In fellowship we can understand each other's hearts. It is in co-discovery of the heart-motives behind our beliefs where we find unity. Inner motives for our Christian beliefs rarely conflict. When they do, it exposes a need for repentance which is much easier to admit.

Two general perspectives orbit the topic of Christian denominational reconciliation. On the one hand, we have our desire for unity, while on the other is the pressing obligation to be responsible. If different doctrines are to be reconciled then they must be changed on some level. Such a change could easily be exploited by someone with a bad agenda. In the midst of the increasing atmosphere of a reconciling/reevaluating attitude, many Christians have fallen away from core beliefs that don't even need to be reconsidered. Those who are hesitant to engage in reconciliation dialogue often want to prevent more people from falling away in the wake of the shift. We must understand each other, even in reconciling our approaches to reconciliation itself: those who are hesitant merely want to avoid heresy, they aren't in favor of division; those who are eager to reconcile aren't interested in abandoning the truth, they merely want to obey the truth which also commands unity. Rushing to one perspective or the other will not achieve the desired results for either. The only way to have either full unity or preventing truth-seeking people from falling away is to have both together. Neither can be achieved alone. Our need is to be responsible and persistent in reconciliation with as much understanding of each other as we give attention to detail. To do that, we will need to begin with understanding each other insomuch as that we have "responsible reconciliation" as our common goal. This begins with respectful fellowship.

The aim of this book is to help Christians from different parts of the American Church understand each other enough to have friendly dialogue. Rather than writing a "mentally-constipated" treatment of different issues, I wanted to pen a routine in the style of friendly, British banter. Anyone can read this book, but a pastor could also have selections performed in his services or colleges may use a small reenactment to provoke discussion. Reconciliation is for everyone, not just professors—seminaries most of all, I believe, would concur. Pastors and theologians write and speak because of their love for people. Though the vocabulary is simple and few chapter and verse references are cited in this particular work, I hope that Christian leaders can see the thought processes and deeper implications of vernacular expression. Seeing past a choice of words to what people "mean", after all, is necessary for reconciliation—something I learned from Black-America.

In this book, we don't dive into questions that relate to non-Christians, nor other questions concerning a deeper walk with Christ. As much as I could write about these things, and in the future, the purpose of this work is "Christian reconciliation" specifically. In this process, however, many deep questions surface. Christians are passionate about questions that relate to their walk with the Lord and evangelism, even when in disagreement. Our motives are almost always rooted in love. The trouble is with expressing that love. I hope this book can give a little help in that direction.

This work does not pretend to solve every issue addressed. I wanted to stay "big picture" and introduce some different approaches on a broad level. Some of these debates are centuries old and should not be treated as if they can be resolved with the flick of a wrist, but we can at least turn the discussion into a friendly journey. Perhaps, with a few considerations, we will discover some missing pieces that bridge the way to the solutions we all are seeking.

#  **Note to Thespians and Theologians**

There are a few key ideas which, from an author's perspective, contributed to the completion of this script.

First, I have been through many such conversations myself. Some times I have been on one end, sometimes I've been on the other.

Second, I've done my homework. I've actually spoken with people and made close friends from different parts of the Body of Christ. I speak with as many pastors as I can to understand what they think and why they think it. I'll never forget the day that a Pentecostal pastor was aghast and shocked that any Evangelical might think that Baptism of the Holy Spirit meant that new Christians didn't have indwelling right from the point of salvation. It took a while for that pastor to even understand my question. The kind answer finally came, "No. Certainly not. All God's people have the Holy Spirit, baptized in Him or not."

Third, by using Jesus as a character, I feel a burden as the author not to put my own words in God's mouth. It would cause a lot of problems if I did. Like the other characters, the Jesus character is a "composite". Rather than being a "Frankenstein" hodge-podge of different theological beliefs, Jesus is a voice of: 1. The obvious, 2. referenced Scripture (usually without chapter-verse for the sake of genre,) 3. "even-Steven" calm-everyone-down moderator, 4. defending and delivering messages between opposing sides in the debate, and 5. as a comic-relief teaching-device using tongue-in-cheek sarcasm and plays on words to remind us of truths we already know yet somehow just have trouble applying to our daily lives. It is easy to develop a view of Jesus as always "calm and even-Steven". however, His steady-temper in this work is not to play on our religious superstitions of what we might think His personality to be. Instead, I gave the Jesus character in this set of stories a calming nature as a device to calm the raging storms of petty Christian quarreling. Most of what Jesus says here is stuff that all of us know He would say. Sorting-out our differences is often a matter of acknowledging the obvious. At other times, the Jesus in this story is my own voice preaching to myself... we've all done that at times: preached to ourselves. In formal arbitration, a mediator provides a way to relay a message from one party to another "to explain what the other guy actually thinks". Jesus is like a mediator in this way, not just between us and God, but, in this story, a mediator between each other to help bring unity. Respect should assume that the intelligent reader would never think that using Jesus as a character could ever imply a "thus says the Lord" attitude of the author. It should go without saying, but, I've seen enough in the Body of Christ to know that we often need to say what shouldn't need to be said.

Fourth, I am a Bible student and have continued to be since my days at Moody. I have evaluated and searched and "re-searched" the Scriptures for answers to the tough questions. This book contains some of the conclusions that could help resolve some conflict in the Body of Christ. But I wrote this work as a conversation script because most people don't want to read a Sys-Theo lecture. "Knowing God" is for everyone and a simple conversation is something we Christians can have with each other... hopefully. But this is more than just a banter form of "the blind leading the stupid" as my father always said. Theological drafts have been written for each idea presented in this book and are available on my homepage (Reconciled Church Foundations.) Were it not for this due diligence, I would not include these concepts in a published work.

Fifth, with the non-Jesus characters being clearly in one camp or the other on some issues, but clearly not on other issues, the reader has permission to consider the matter from a comfortable and respectable distance—without feeling labeled. Even in Jesus's conversation with, say, an Evangelical, a reader who is not himself an Evangelical may appreciate the script as he understands that Evangelical's perspective... almost like having a conversation. He can also watch Jesus say what he always wanted to say himself as well as understand the Evangelical perspective more accurately. The same is true of a different camp. But the reader should not interpret any character as a generalization of all people in any one group. These characters are consolidations of more pressing discussions in the Body of Christ, not an attempt to lump us all into only a few groups. I will say, however, that in the scripts where Jesus converses with both of the other characters, the difference between the personalities has been heavily informed by close friends in my own life. Some of the content reflects specific people I know while other parts reflect the personalities of an entire sub-culture within the Body of Christ. Still, every character in the script, including the Jesus character, is a composite of some form or another.

Sixth, there is a method behind the topics I selected... and _de_ selected. I have directly avoided differences between Amish/Mennonites and conventional American Protestants as well as Roman Catholic differences. Not only are the differences between those camps around five hundred years old and much deeper than can be reconciled with a simple arbitrator, we also hold those differences with more respect even in our strong disagreements. I'm targeting the "enflamed-ignorant" debates. Nearly all Protestants have had dealings with the Amish in business or friendship. Lunchtime between a Catholic and Lutheran in the staff lounge rarely turns ugly. With the exception of Calvinism and Arminianism, it seems that the more venomous differences between American Protestants have only developed in the last century. There is also a flavor of "Academic" Christians vs. "Live-and-be" Christians. Though each character in this book seems to belong to a certain denominational group, it is merely a literary device that was convenient. All of us know that both types of people exist within the several different denominations. Some topics are not introduced "formally", but I borrow jargon from such discussions and slip them into the dialogue under the radar so that theologically-savvy readers will know what is being referenced while those in the laity who don't care—and don't need to—aren't pulled into fights they don't have prior knowledge of. This is in the best interest of both Christian unity and academic respect for the subject matter.

Seventh, the characters are a bit "slow" to learn some of the points taught in the book. This will reach a broad reader base by addressing various aspects and specific phrases that different people in the Body of Christ may have blocking their way to understanding. It also aims to be "slower on the uptake" than most every reader. This way, readers may grasp the point before the character does, and, even though the reader may just be learning the same concept, he may begin yelling at the character in the story, telling the character to hurry up and learn the same thing he himself just learned. This helps a reader to get a thorough grasp on a concept.

Eighth, no one is perfect, myself most of all, but credit must be given to the fact that ideas are more interesting if the author writes from his lifestyle and not just a theory. These ideas come from living and studying Bible— _both_. I have spent hundreds, if not thousands, of hours mentoring young people and helping friends sort-through challenges in, not just the topics presented in this book, but many things in life. While the ideas I've developed over the last decade were based in reality and experience, they also serve the purpose of helping our realities. Once we get some of our differences sorted-out, other things in life will begin to come together for us as a natural result. Life experience and Bible study continually spiral between each other. Bible study is most effective _when_ we are living life and we study the Bible _so that_ we can be more effective in living.

Ninth, I've kept things broad. We often get into trouble when we use a microscope to parse things that must be measured in light years. The scientific community uses the term "significant figures", where the calculation of the outcome must not be more detailed than the ability for the equipment to measure. For instance, if you measure the average speed of your car, consider how crude the speedometer is: increments of 5MPH. Even if, after crunching some numbers, the number on your calculator says 64.8967301, your speedometer only shows 60 and 65, so your conclusion must be 65 for that experiment. Many of our debates get technical in calculations measured by crude equipment. In those cases, unity may be found, merely in "rounding" to the technicality of the equipment God gave us. It may seem as if this shows no respect for details, but, details can be measured ever-infinitely smaller. Every tool of measurement must accept a certain level of "slop" by definition. As Christians, we ought to make that "acceptable slop" factor equal to the technicality in God's commands and not parse things His Word does not. Concerning some such issues, we may be divided over things for which God's Word holds no opinion. Unity, in such regards, may be found in conforming our non-opinions to the non-opinion of His Word _on issues where His Word holds no opinion_. Many times, a news reporter asks a celebrity for an opinion on an issue that the celebrity isn't involved with. In those situations, a wise celebrity will say, "I don't have an opinion about that." Even though it's tempting and even though the news reporter may not like that answer—because it doesn't sell well in headlines—we may want to follow the wisdom in refusing to opine where we would only be speculating.

Some more recent publications which have invited opened discussion to ideas that question the basis for Christian faith and, by way of unnecessary "what ifs", have led people away from the redemptive work of the Cross. I genuinely believe that some of those books have been written with good intent from their authors. Nonetheless, if an author is going to ask readers to reconsider some of their core beliefs, that author owes it to the wider Christian community to make his beliefs available for those with questions. For articles to that effect and other writings aimed at bridging the "Bapticostal" gap, go to faith.jessesteele.com. You might look for the article "Reconciled Church Foundations" which specifically targets ideas more relating to this book.

I truly believe that reconciliation is possible, however, we all know that the journey may be a little bumpy. In that process we need clarity, communication, sober alertness to rogue ideas that may seek to game the inevitable transition, and the constant reminder that our goal is unity. We are a team. Unity is coming.

#  **Scene 1: I Met Jesus Before I Got to Class**

Jesus: Hello.

Carl: Who are You?

Jesus: I'm Jesus?

Carl: Oh, and I'm Frankenstein.

Jesus: Hi, Frankenstein.

Carl: Frankenstein isn't my name.

Jesus: Why did you say it was your name?

Carl: You said Your name is Jesus.

Jesus: That's because my name is Jesus. I've been called by other names, and many other things have been called by my name, but I knew your name wasn't Frankenstein.

Carl: Ooo. Sharp! How did You ever figure that out, "genius?"

Jesus: No, it's "Jesus". I've always known your name, Carl.

Carl: How did You know my name?

Jesus: Do you really want to go through this again?

Carl: No, You're just going to tell me that You're Jesus, so You know everything.

Jesus: Now you're getting to know Me. It takes a while, but you'll get used to Me.

Carl: Did Your mother ever get used to You?

Jesus: Not quite. But she sure learned how to ask Me for food when she needed it. Most people worry about food way too much.

Carl: With all the overweight people I know what yer sayin'.

Jesus: You don't look too slim yourself?

Carl: Yeah, but I'm not like other people.

Jesus: No. None of you are the same. I made each one of you different.

Carl: That's not what I meant.

Jesus: But it's not what you understood either. Do you really want to rate your progress by comparing yourself to others?

Carl: If other people are more overweight than I am, I'd say I'm doing pretty good.

Jesus: I wouldn't, your doctor ordered you to lay-off the French fries four months ago.

Carl: How did You know that?

Jesus: Who do you think gave him the idea? I want you healthy so you can do what I want you to do.

Carl: And what is that? I suppose You are going to lecture me on how I need to finish seminary and lead a Sunday school.

Jesus: Don't you know what I want you to do?

Carl: Apparently not.

Jesus: What are you studying at seminary?

Carl: Spiritual Formation.

Jesus: Spirits don't have a form—they kind of "float and drift around". No one knows where they come from or where they are going.

Carl: Now I'm starting to think You are Jesus or something.

Jesus: See! Your faith is increasing.

Carl: I mean that You are talking in lofty platitudes that no one understands.

Jesus: You'll understand once you get to know Me. Anyhow, where were we in our conversation?

Carl: Our conversation was everywhere!

Jesus: No, I AM everywhere. Our conversation was right here. And I think I had just asked you about what you were studying at seminary.

Carl: And I told You "Spiritual Formation" and You went-off on spirits and how they don't take a form.

Jesus: That's right. So, what do you study in "Spiritual Formation" anyways?

Carl: We study how to help other people grow up in Christ.

Jesus: Well! Here I AM.

Carl: I know You are here. I'm here too.

Jesus: And we are both here—together. See, you are growing-up.

Carl: Now I just plain feel insulted.

Jesus: Why would you feel insulted by growing-up?

Carl: Because You don't tell someone, "See, now you are growing up."

Jesus: I just did tell you.

Carl: But it's rude.

Jesus: Didn't you just say you were taking a class called "Spiritual Formation" where you help other people grow up in Me?

Carl: Maybe not grow up in "You", but in Christ.

Jesus: Well, here you are growing up, in Me, doing the same thing you want other people to do. What's wrong with doing what you want other people to do?

Carl: Now You're just talking nonsense. I need to study for this class.

Jesus: Your "Spiritual Formation" class?

Carl: Yes! Now, please, let me be.

Jesus: How about I help you.

Carl: You can help be by leaving me alone.

Jesus: But if I leave, then you can't get to know Me, then it will be difficult to grow up in Me, and then it will be extremely difficult to help others to grow up in Me.

Carl: I don't have time to get to know some guy I just met on the street. I have to study for ministry!

Jesus: Now you're the one not making sense.

Carl: Why's that? First You lecture me on how I need to finish seminary, then You tell me not to study, but to spend time with a crazy guy like You instead!

Jesus: No, I never lectured you on finishing seminary.

Carl: So You want me to drop-out?

Jesus: No, I didn't say that either?

Carl: What did You say then?

Jesus: That's the Spirit! The Spirit of love and sound mind.

Carl: Wait... that's on my test... who said that?...

Jesus: Well, James _wrote_ it, but I inspired him with the idea.

Carl: James! Yes, he said it! You know Your Bible well.

Jesus: Well...

Carl: Yes very well.

Jesus: Well, sure. I AM the WORD of God, after all. And you are getting to know Me quite well.

Carl: Well...

Jesus: Yes, very well.

Carl: Look! If You aren't going to tell me what You want me to know, then could You please leave? Do You want me to finish seminary or not?

Jesus: Now that you ask. Yes, I do want you to finish seminary, but that's not the main thing I want you to do.

Carl: What's the main thing then?

Jesus: The main thing is that you know Me so you can do what I commanded you to do?

Carl: And what was that!!?? Please, just tell me.

Jesus: Don't you know? It's what I commanded all Christians to do.

Carl: Love You?

Jesus: That's true, yes. But love is spiritual. There is an action I also commanded.

Carl: Love my neighbor?

Jesus: True, but that's also love, an emotion. Those are the Two Greatest Commands. But remember, you asked Me what I want you doing.

Carl: I'm lost.

Jesus: No, you're not. You're saved. I was there. It was all Me.

Carl: That's not what I meant.

Jesus: That's what I meant.

Carl: I just don't understand You.

Jesus: Now you are starting to get it.

Carl: Lost?

Jesus: Yes. I commanded you to save the lost.

Carl: To fulfill the Great Commission. Is that what You mean?

Jesus: _Yes!_ Now you are remembering.

Carl: But I've known that since Sunday school. The question is _how?_ How do we fulfill the Great Commission?

Jesus: First you need to have your priorities right. I told you to go to seminary, but I didn't tell everyone to do that. I told everyone to fulfill the Great Commission.

Carl: So, You are saying we are like a team?

Jesus: Sure, and we are guaranteed to win.

Carl: Why bother playing if You know You will win?

Jesus: Why bother playing if you know you will loose?

Carl: That's it! It's about the uncertainty! That's what motivates us.

Jesus: Love is what motivates us. The uncertainty isn't about whether my team will win. The uncertainty is about you. And I AM not the one who's uncertain.

Carl: Are You trying to de-motivate me?

Jesus: Nope.

Carl: So why are You telling me I'm uncertain?

Jesus: Aren't you?

Carl: What do You mean?

Jesus: You're the one who doesn't have time to talk to "some guy" on the street because you are too busy studying for ministry.

Carl: Yes, but it's about priorities.

Jesus: That's why I'm visiting you today.

Carl: To talk to me about priorities?

Jesus: Exactly. Priorities determine who you will become.

Carl: I want to become a minister.

Jesus: You can be a minister today, if you would be willing to talk to a friendly guy on the street.

Carl: Not if it gets in the way of seminary.

Jesus: Does everyone need to go to seminary to be a minister?

Carl: Well, kind of. I mean, one could be a volunteer "minister" at a soup kitchen or something.

Jesus: Is a soup kitchen volunteer's ministry less "ministerial".

Carl: Well it isn't professional.

Jesus: Does a professional get paid?

Carl: Yes. Yes, he does.

Jesus: So, since you are getting paid for your ministry on earth, the volunteer will have more reward in eternity?

Carl: That doesn't make sense! The pastor should have the greater reward in eternity.

Jesus: Can you hear yourself?

Carl: Yes, I can hear both of us. And I have almost heard enough from You!

Jesus: Apparently you haven't heard enough from Me or you wouldn't say these things. If you can't even hear yourself then how do you ever expect to hear Me?

Carl: Okay. I'm not better than other people.

Jesus: So, what is a minister?

Carl: Someone who helps other people meet and grow closer to Jesus.

Jesus: Okay, if that's your definition... can't everyone be equal ministers then?

Carl: Well, I suppose. But, then...

Jesus: Then what?

Carl: Why bother going to seminary?

Jesus: Seminary may be part of the way I have _you_ minister to people. Other people might minister by sweeping streets.

Carl: Streets? That doesn't take talent.

Jesus: It doesn't take talent to have a conversation with Me.

Carl: Conversation with You actually is quite a skill.

Jesus: Ahh, and it's a skill I AM teaching you quite well. With time you'll get better and better.

Carl: Well...

Jesus: Now you've got it!

Carl: I'm actually more confused.

Jesus: And that is the beginning of understanding. You can't learn anything until you first feel confused. Don't they call that a "learning crisis" in your studies?

Carl: Yes, but I thought I stopped having that "learning crisis thing" when I was in school.

Jesus: You are in school. Isn't seminary a school?

Carl: But it's not the same.

Jesus: Is there a point where people ever stop learning and growing in Me?

Carl: Sometimes I wish there was. You're annoying me.

Jesus: That's enough for today.

Carl: What do You mean?

Jesus: You want Me to leave, don't you? I'm a gentleman. I never force myself on anyone.

Carl: But You didn't answer my question.

Jesus: Which question was that?

Carl: How do we _do_ ministry?

Jesus: I answered that.

Carl: Fulfill the Great Commission. I know.

Jesus: So, what's the question?

Carl: How do we do that?

Jesus: Listen to Me. I'll tell you everything you need to know.

Carl: Dah. I already know that! I mean... Christians are so divided against each other.

Jesus: I know. That's part of why I visited you today: priorities.

Carl: What does Christian division have to do with "priorities?" They are divided over doctrine and theology, not priorities.

Jesus: When my people order their priorities properly, they won't be divided.

Carl: Are You saying we should ignore Christian theology and doctrine?

Jesus: No. I wanted you in seminary and, naturally, you will study those.

Carl: What do You mean then?

Jesus: You learn the doctrine so you can help people understand without having to go to seminary themselves.

Carl: So I need to teach them the big vocabulary... I suppose I could use drills to help them remember all the big words.

Jesus: Big words aren't necessary to know Me.

Carl: What's wrong with big words?

Jesus: Big words are wonderful in seminary because you can say more to each other faster with big words, but that's in seminary.

Carl: How am I supposed to talk about the same things as in seminary with people who don't know the big words?

Jesus: Talk about what THEY need to know for their own ministries. I haven't called everyone to know the big words.

Carl: How can I teach theology without the big words?

Jesus: Do you know what "theology" means?

Carl: Yes. It was on my test last term. "Theology" is "knowledge of God".

Jesus: Um, "knowledge" is one way of putting it. I like to say "knowing God". It has a better ring to it.

Carl: Okay, fine. "Theology" means "knowing God". How can I teach about "knowing God" without big words?

Jesus: Um—what's the question here?

Carl: I just asked it.

Jesus: I have a better question... How can you teach "knowing God" with big words to people who don't need them?

Carl: Huh?

Jesus: I know bigger words than you and we haven't used very many big words... today. And you are getting to "know Me" better... today.

Carl: Oh. So, all I have to do is help other people know You?

Jesus: Yes. That is ministry... and theology.

Carl: Okay. How do I do that?

Jesus: You must know Me first. You can't introduce your friends to someone you don't know yourself.

Carl: My friends, yes. But what about the people in my church?

Jesus: You mean _my_ Church. It isn't yours.

Carl: I know it's _Your_ Church, but I mean the local congregation I attend... just like I might say "my parents". It doesn't mean that I own them.

Jesus: I know. You are correct, it's okay to call it "your...whatever". The problem is that you talk as if there are _many churches_. There is only one Church. Your congregation is a part of _my One_ , True Church.

Carl: Fair enough. So, I help my friends, yes, but what about the people in my congregation?

Jesus: Aren't they your friends also?

Carl: Yes, but parishioners are different from my friends?

Jesus: Do I call you my "friend" or my "parishioner?"

Carl: Are You saying I should just consider every Christian my friend!?

Jesus: Yep.

Carl: So, how do we solve all of these "knowing God"/doctrine disputes?

Jesus: Do you know what "doctrine" means?

Carl: Yes, it was on my exam two terms ago. It means "a teaching". It's something a person believes and teaches to other people.

Jesus: So, when you ask how to help Christians stop fighting about "theology" and "doctrine" you mean...

Carl: How do we stop fighting about "knowing You" and our "teachings?"

Jesus: And the answer?

Carl: The last thing we were talking about was "seeing everyone as friends".

Jesus: That will be all for today.

Carl: But I have certain questions about specific denominations.

Jesus: "Denomination" is a term from Math. Why is a seminary student using it?

Carl: I mean the different groups in the Church.

Jesus: You mean _my_ Church.

Carl: Yes, _Your_ Church.

Jesus: What part of Math does the word "denomination" come from? Do you remember?

Carl: Why are You quizzing me on Math?

Jesus: I know every subject taught in school and many subjects no one has taught yet. I know a lot of stuff, you know. Besides, you were the one who brought up "denomination".

Carl: I'm starting to remember... Um... "denomination" comes from the Math-subjects of "division" and "fractions".

Jesus: So, you referred to my Church using terms of "division?"

Carl: I suppose, if You want to put it that way. Do You always get Your way?

Jesus: No. Not everyone chooses Life.

Carl: Well... Even God can't force people to be His friends. [thoughtfully]

Jesus: Nope. That's up to each person. But if my people would see each other as friends, they might stop using words like "denomination" and "division" to describe themselves.

Carl: I think I understand. But I still have questions.

Jesus: Let's get into those questions tomorrow. You've grown enough for today. People can only handle so much alone time with Me at once.

Carl: How much time is that?

Jesus: It can be five seconds or 40 years in the desert. It all depends on the situation. But, after our quiet time together, they need to get back to the work I specifically called them to.

Carl: And for me that's seminary?

Jesus: For now, yes. You are beginning to understand.

Carl: Bye "Jesus".

Jesus: There's no need to say, "Bye." I AM with you always.

Carl: See You tomorrow then?

Jesus: I'll have time for you if you make time for Me.

Carl: Tomorrow then.

Jesus: Deal.

#  **Scene 2: Denumeration**

Carl: Jesus!

Jesus: Carl!

Carl: It's good to see You again.

Jesus: It _is_ good for you to see Me again.

Carl: That sounds strange?

Jesus: Why?

Carl: It seems arrogant. "Nice that you can see me again." Huh? That isn't tactful.

Jesus: But I wouldn't say, "Nice to see you again." I saw you all since yesterday... I watched you sleep all night long. I see everything.

Carl: Okay, well I guess that makes sense.

Jesus: I AM glad I AM making sense... to you. I always make sense. People just take some time to see it. But I AM patient.

Carl: Speaking of patience... I've been _patiently_ waiting to ask You something ever since my Spiritual Formation class yesterday.

Jesus: Yes. Ask and I shall counsel.

Carl: Are You a Pentecostal or a Baptist?

Jesus: That question is off-base.

Carl: Okay, sorry. I suppose I shouldn't rush to question the Almighty so quickly.

Jesus: No, there's nothing wrong with asking Me something candidly and boldly. I AM just saying that I AM bigger than the difference between Baptists and Pentecostals. I can't belong to either group because I AM not able to fit.

Carl: What should I ask then?

Jesus: Try switching the words around. See what you come up with.

Carl: Okay, here goes... Are the Baptists or the Pentecostals Your favorites?

Jesus: Yes.

Carl: But which one of them is right?

Jesus: They both are.

Carl: They wouldn't tell You that.

Jesus: They tell Me that all the time: each group tells Me that they are the ones who are right... every week.

Carl: So, which one is it. I must know!

Jesus: Which one what?

Carl: Which one truly follows You?

Jesus: They both do. They both serve the Great Commission and they both love Me.

Carl: But why do they argue so much?

Jesus: That's a good question.

Carl: So, do You have a good answer for my good question?

Jesus: "Arguing" is about truth. You asked about which one follows Me. Following is about friendship.

Carl: But what about the truth. Which one of them has the truth? They disagree about that, You know.

Jesus: Oh! Don't I ever know!

Carl: So, tell me! The suspense is holding me in suspense. My blood pressure is boiling.

Jesus: That's okay, you're young, the stress is good for you. You should have seen some of the stress I've been through. Oh boy.

Carl: Stop changing the subject!

Jesus: Okay, if you insist on seeking an answer so whole-heartedly... Baptists and Pentecostals are both right and both wrong.

Carl: How does that work? Are You saying Truth is relative?

Jesus: I AM not relative... I AM a "blood" relative.

Carl: That's just a play on words. How can You say that both Baptists and Pentecostals are right and wrong if they both disagree?

Jesus: Carl, they are learning. Each of them has been focusing on different questions. It's as if they are different study groups in my Great Classroom of Life and they have been working on different assignments. They each have stuff they are wrong about, but I AM pleased with the questions they have had in their hearts to pursue. Do they still have things to learn? Yes, but that's okay. I AM a good teacher. I know what I AM doing.

Carl: But it can't stay like that forever.

Jesus: It won't. Trust Me.

Carl: When will they stop fighting, then?

Jesus: Ending a fight is about growing in friendship. You can be someone's friend even if the two of you don't agree. It's especially easy if everyone is humble enough to know that they are still learning themselves.

Carl: So, unity in the Church...

Jesus: Unity in _my_ Church...

Carl: Yes, unity in _Your_ Church is about friendship?

Jesus: You can't have unity with someone who isn't your friend first.

Carl: How are we to be friends? Everyone has worship service at the same time. They can't visit each other's churches!

Jesus: Remember, there's only _one_ Church— _my_ Church.

Carl: Yes, but there's still the one I'm a member of.

Jesus: You mean you're a member of my Church?

Carl: Yes, I am.

Jesus: Good, then you can visit my Church whenever you want.

Carl: I do, but I can't go to the others.

Jesus: What others?

Carl: The other Churches.

Jesus: I only have one Church.

Carl: That's not what I mean.

Jesus: Do you even know what you mean?

Carl: I mean if I don't go to the same worship service every week, then my tithe money won't be given to my congregation and they may have financial trouble.

Jesus: So, you don't make friends in other parts of my Church because of money?

Carl: When You say it like that it sounds bad.

Jesus: But that's how you said it. You were the one who mentioned money as a reason for not visiting my Church.

Carl: But I love my pastor and I don't want him to worry about money.

Jesus: Worrying about money is a different issue, but, since you care so much, go ahead and give your main congregation your tithe, maybe during the week, or double it the next week, and then go visit your other friends in my Church in their congregations.

Carl: But then I won't be with my friends in my own congregation.

Jesus: But you aren't with your friends in the other congregations either.

Carl: I know, so which do I choose?

Jesus: Choose them all. I do. I AM friends with each one of them. They all are a part of my Church.

Carl: Different ones each week? How will I keep a strong relationship with my own smallgroup and pastor?

Jesus: Take initiative. Help people to see other Christians and other congregations as their friends. Then the friendships in your own congregation will also grow deeper.

Carl: And I need to visit other congregations to do that?

Jesus: Yep. You can't be friends with people you don't spend time with.

Carl: Yeah... and I can help other congregations know that people in my own congregation family are their friends as well.

Jesus: Now you are thinking of "outreach".

Carl: Yes, I must "outreach" to people.

Jesus: "Outreach" as a noun is friendly, as a verb it's more aggressive, like "over-reaching". You could say, "We will _do_ outreach..." but not, "...outreach _to_ people."

Carl: Why are we talking about grammar?

Jesus: You "reach out" to others in friendship. That is called "outreach". When you say, "I want to outreach to people." non-Christians don't understand what you mean and they think you are crazy.

Carl: People in my Church say that all the time.

Jesus: People in my Church say that you are crazy?

Carl: No, people in my Church say, "We need to _outreach_ to people," all the time.

Jesus: You mean people in _my_ Church say that all the time.

Carl: Well, yes. People in _Your_ Church say it all the time. We need to bring new Christians into our congregation.

Jesus: And how many new Christians are you bringing into your congregation?

Carl: Last year we brought in ten new people.

Jesus: How many _new Christians?_ People who didn't know Me before?

Carl: Um... three of them were new Christians, the others joined their old church split.

Jesus: How can my Church split?

Carl: Okay, their _congregation_ split.

Jesus: Three people huh?

Carl: Yeah, isn't that good?

Jesus: Sure, three is good...

Carl: Don't You celebrate when You leave the 99 sheep to find the one lost sheep?

Jesus: Yes, but if there are four lost sheep, and I leave the 96 to find one sheep, I AM thrilled, but there are still other lost sheep.

Carl: You don't want me to get so excited about a few new Christians that I forget all the other people You care about.

Jesus: That's right and just.

Carl: But how can we reach them all?

Jesus: You can start by not saying confusing things like, "I want to _outreach_ to people." They don't want to follow people who use crazy-sounding words. Be understandable.

Carl: But my congregation says it all the time.

Jesus: You already said that.

Carl: So, it's still true!

Jesus: Are you saying you only know how to talk to people in your own congregation?

Carl: Well... no... not exactly...

Jesus: That's what it sounds like.

Carl: So... if I want to be understood by non-Christians outside of my congregation I might start by talking to Christians in other congregations?

Jesus: Now you're onto something. You have no idea how many things they agree with you about. They just use different words.

Carl: Like what?

Jesus: Take Calvinism and Arminianism for instance.

Carl: Like Democrats and Republicans going at it.

Jesus: More like Abbot and Costello. They use the same words to say different things and the misunderstanding makes for a great comedy act! We get all sorts of entertainment out of watching those guys act like they disagree. And they really pretend to hate each other so well... in a "Christian" way of course.

Carl: Blasphemy!

Jesus: I've been told that before.

Carl: That debate is about important stuff!

Jesus: The issues are important, but you're wrong about one thing.

Carl: What's that?

Jesus: It isn't a debate. It's a _misunderstanding_.

Carl: What's there to misunderstand? One group believes humans don't have a free will and the other believes You'll take away people's salvation if they step out of line!

Jesus: No, neither side of the comedy act believes either of those. It's all a show. And they mostly fool themselves.

Carl: Well, if You're so smart...

Jesus:...I AM...

Carl:...so tell me what they do believe!

Jesus: Calvinists want to believe that I AM _reliable_. Arminianists want people to be _held responsible_. That isn't a debate.

Carl: They sure seem to think it is.

Jesus: In a debate, the different debating sides disagree about the same topic or topics... Calvinists and Arminianists aren't even talking about the same things.

Carl: How are they not the same? So many experts write books about it.

Jesus: I AM the one who wrote _The Book_ and I know that I AM reliable because I AM the one who holds people accountable. And I hold people accountable because I AM reliable.

Carl: Alright, Jesus, if You say so, I'll at least consider the idea, but this is a hard pill to swallow. Please, help me understand: Why do they disagree so much if it's all just a misunderstanding as You say?

Jesus: They don't worship together.

Carl: What!? They _all_ worship You!

Jesus: But not together.

Carl: How does that relate?

Jesus: The Arminianists only _think_ that they agree about Arminianism and disagree with Calvinism because of their _beliefs_. Actually, Arminianists agree _together_ because they worship Me together as a congregation. It's their unity in _worship_ that is the source of their unity in _friendship_ and they misinterpret it as unity in their _beliefs_. They need to worship Me together.

Carl: If Calvinists and Arminianists worshiped You "together" as You suggest, that wouldn't solve their doctrinal differences!

Jesus: That would be true, except you're forgetting that I already told you about your error.

Carl: What's that?

Jesus: They don't have a _doctrinal disagreement_ , they have a _misunderstanding_. From Heaven, their so-called "debate" truly is like watching Abbot and Costello debate "Who's on First!"

Carl: Then why don't they know that?

Jesus: They don't talk together.

Carl: Oh yes they do! They debate all the time.

Jesus: "Debating together" isn't "talking together".

Carl: So, when they finally do talk about their differences, it's in the form of a disagreement and they never actually "talk" with each other?

Jesus: Yep.

Carl: Well how should they talk? There is so much hostility in the air when they meet-up for coffee.

Jesus: Instead of "friendly banter" —which is all good, in its proper place—perhaps they could find "different words" to say what the other guy thinks. One person could say to the other, "Let me see if I understand, you are saying..."

Carl: In my "Intro to Christian Counseling" class we call that "summarizing".

Jesus: Exactly.

Carl: Wait! That reminds me!

Jesus: Oh. Do tell. [nodding with arms thoughtfully crossed like a counseling therapist]

Carl: I read in a book somewhere that the way to solve disputes between people is to find out why each person wants what they want and thinks what they think.

Jesus: That's interesting... Go on...

Carl: For instance... let's see if I can remember... A son might want to go to a community college and a mother wants him to attend to a nice school with a scholarship.

Jesus: And... you're saying that it only _seems_ like a disagreement?

Carl: Oh, yes.

Jesus: And, how does that make them _feel_?

Carl: It's a very _big_ disagreement!

Jesus: So, how does a good counselor help them solve their "big disagreement?"

Carl: In that example from the book, after asking the question, "Why?" to both the mother and son for about an hour, the two of them figured out that both mother and son wanted an affordable way to pay for college.

Jesus: Bingo!

Carl: Wait, You're the Wonderful Counselor. Isn't that _my_ line?

Jesus: I was saying it for you. I advocate a lot of things on your behalf.

Carl: Okay, so, staying on topic... The mother and son reconciled their differences by finding common ground on...

Jesus: Yes?

Carl:...their _motives_.

Jesus: The motivation of the human heart is where we find unity!

Carl: That's why Calvinists and Arminianists would find unity if they just spent more time worshiping You, in their hearts, together!

Jesus: And, what was the first thing I said about them?

Carl: Motives?

Jesus: Calvinists want...?

Carl:...a God who is reliable while Arminianists want God to _hold people responsible_.

Jesus: And what's the conflict in _that_?

Carl: The only conflict would be confusing them as being the same issue because we use similar-sounding words to describe the two discussions.

Jesus: One more question before we are done for today.

Carl: Okay?

Jesus: Why do you think confusing the two different heart-questions is such a problem?

Carl: I don't get Your question.

Jesus: So, one congregation wants Me to be seen as _reliable_ and the other wants to see Me _hold people responsible_ for their actions.

Carl: Yes, we've established this.

Jesus: Why would such a simple confusion create such a huge conflict?

Carl: Hmm... yeah. I mean, that does seem to just label both groups as "crazy".

Jesus: Neither group is crazy. That's why I asked. I AM not one to paint my Church to look crazy when they aren't. The only thing crazy about my Church is my crazy love for them.

Carl: I don't know, Jesus. Why does such a simple thing cause such a big debate?

Jesus: So, are you ready for a simple answer from Me?

Carl: As opposed to "helping me figure it all out"?

Jesus: Sometimes a simple answer from your Teacher is just what you need.

Carl: Okay, I'm ready, because I don't think I'm going to figure this one out.

Jesus: Deal.

Carl: So, why do the different groups have such heated debates if their heart-motives don't have a conflict?

Jesus: My people are so passionate about what they think of Me that sometimes they get carried away.

Carl: [eagerly] Explain that. There are many ways to get carried away. What do You mean?

Jesus: I mean, when one group believes something, they exaggerate that idea so much that it sounds like they are disagreeing with everyone else in the room, and more often then not, they don't disagree at all.

Carl: Okay, I guess I can see that.

Jesus: Many preachers do it all the time. Not all, maybe not most, but a good number of them.

Carl: Do what?

Jesus: It's as if some of my people can't make a point in a book or sermon unless they accuse someone else of being wrong.

Carl: But what if someone else is wrong?

Jesus: That's another issue. But someone doesn't always have to be wrong for you to have a good point.

Carl: What do we do then?

Jesus: Just make your point. Don't talk about other people unless they relate to your own point. And someone else being wrong doesn't always relate to a point on which you are right.

Carl: But don't we need to help people see the difference between the good guys and bad guys?

Jesus: Let them ask you for help if it's important enough. Don't let counterfeits distract you from explaining the real thing. Don't use counterfeits as a basis for explaining the real thing either.

Carl: Okay?

Jesus: If you try to describe every single bad person in the world, you'll never have time to speak the Truth.

Carl: So, shine the Truth and don't spend our sermon time cursing the darkness?

Jesus: That's kind of what I mean. You can describe some of the bad ideas out there, but only if you need to. It's best to stay focused on the real thing. Keep your eyes on Me.

Carl: How, then, does that relate to why different groups debate stuff they don't really disagree about?

Jesus: When my people discover something about Me, they are extremely excited. They really love Me—a lot. It helps them to help other people learn something that they didn't know before. Sharing their knowledge about Me helps their families, their friends, their businesses, their congregations... teaching people helps everyone in many ways.

Carl: And, isn't that good?

Jesus: Yes. But their new "discovery" about Me turns ugly when they expect everyone else to be just as excited about the same thing. Different people are learning different things.

Carl: That's true. You did make us all different.

Jesus: And that's why I said, "Be happy with those who are happy and sad with those who are sad."

Carl: Didn't Paul say that?

Jesus: I inspired him.

Carl: True.

Jesus: Yes, I AM.

Carl: So, we should take time to understand each other?

Jesus: Yes! When you begin to see how _reliable_ I AM, don't shout it so loud that you undermine other people who are happy about knowing that I hold people _responsible_.

Carl: Then, even if we get the topics confused—we still won't get in a heated debate about it!

Jesus: Life is much easier when you don't take yourself so seriously.

Carl: But I need to take my studies seriously...

Jesus: Exactly. You are studying, you are learning, you don't know everything, and other people might already know stuff you don't. Other students are taking different classes than you. They are not wrong just because your Teacher gave you a different homework assignment.

Carl: Okay, I feel like You're lecturing me.

Jesus: Good. Because I AM.

Carl: Life is easier when I don't think that other people's learning must either be the same as my own or else they are bad students.

Jesus:...or bad Christians.

Carl: One preacher said, "I am not the oil in the engine. I'm not the ice that chills the glass."

Jesus: There is none beside Me. You stand beside your friends a whole lot better when you know that you stand _with_ Me, but not _beside_ Me.

Carl: We get so excited in expressing our own discoveries that we accidentally invalidate the ideas of our fellow Christians.

Jesus: Do you know the term "hyperbole?"

Carl: Yeah, that's when we exaggerate an idea to make a point.

Jesus: Hyperbole is useful in telling a story or giving an illustration. But it creates a problem when Christians use hyperbole to describe their beliefs. Yes, I AM in control of your future, but that doesn't mean I have gone so far as to take away your own free choice, even though talking like I do may make you feel more secure in Me for the moment.

Carl: Yeah, if someone else hears a person say that You are so reliable that You overcome our free will, they may think that You don't plan to hold people accountable for their choices.

Jesus: And just because I hold people accountable for their own choices doesn't mean that I'm not strong enough to protect their futures from evil.

Carl: So, these debates are really about how we over-express our own ideas, not about the ideas themselves.

Jesus: Don't get Me wrong. Your ideas are often good. But don't use them to disagree with opinions that don't even relate to your own point.

Carl: And don't act like someone else has to be wrong before I can be right.

Jesus: Yeah. If you start thinking that you are only right if someone else is wrong, you'll think that Satan is my equal opposite. Actually, Satan doesn't even stand a chance. I don't curse Satan every time I teach you something new, so you don't need to either.

Carl: Wait! What's this got to do with Satan?

Jesus: The "goodness" of Goodness is not based on Wrongness being "wrong".

Carl: So just say what I think... I got that. But what's that got to do with You and Satan?

Jesus: People act like I'm evil for not eliminating Satan right away. I AM bigger than him. I don't curse him at every turn, so you don't have to either.

Carl: Let me guess... we Christians curse each other even when Satan isn't around because we don't know how to be right without making someone else wrong?

Jesus: And you fight with each other because you don't know that I AM so much bigger than evil.

Carl: Our wimpy fights with each other are caused because of our wimpy view of _You?_

Jesus: Yes.

Carl: And because we think _You_ are wimpy for not wiping-out Satan, we think of ourselves as wimpy...

Jesus:...so...

Carl:...then we make our own opinions sound a lot bigger than they are because we are insecure in whom You created us to be. We are like little dogs who bark extra loud because we are extra scared... We won't be scared when we are confident in Your power over Satan.

Jesus: See. You figured that out without Me giving you all of the answers. I have revealed a lot of obvious truths.

Carl: So... I don't mean to change the topic, but why don't You just get rid of Satan anyways?

Jesus: We'll get into that another time.

#  **Scene 3: Second Focus of Wesley**

Carl: Perfection!

Jesus: Yes, I AM.

Carl: Oh! Jesus! You're here.

Jesus: Always. Weren't you referring to Me when you said, "Perfection?"

Carl: No, I was referring to my paper that I'm working on with my classmate, Wesley.

Jesus: You and he are classmates, I know.

Carl: You know that?

Jesus: But I also know that your paper isn't perfect.

Carl: It's not?

Jesus: Have faith in Me.

Carl: I worked so hard on it. Besides, how would You know?

Jesus: I watched you type it all last night. You revised that thing twenty times!

Carl: You saw all that?

Jesus: There is nothing I don't see.

Carl: Just when I thought I had it all figured out, You come along...

Jesus: Perfect!

Carl: I already said that!

Jesus: [in a very childish manner] I said it first... before any humans walked the earth... five whole times. Na na nana naaa.

Carl: You're acting like a child, this is a seminary.

Jesus: That's right, not a cemetery. You must be like a child or I'll never make any sense to you.

Carl: Can we talk about my paper?

Jesus: You want to talk about your _self_.

Carl: Kinda'.

Jesus: That's childlike... childish, but also childlike.

Carl: I want to tell You what I wrote in my paper.

Jesus: The one I watched you revised twenty times last night?

Carl: Yeah. I want to tell You all about it.

Jesus: Okay. Tell Me. I AM interested.

Carl: It's all about Baptism of the Holy Spirit.

Jesus: Yep, that's what it's all about.

Carl: No, I mean that's what my paper is all about.

Jesus: I know. I watched you type it... twenty times. You were saying...

Carl:...that the paper You watched me type twenty times is all about Baptism of the Holy Spirit.

Jesus: It was, is, and probably will be tomorrow.

Carl: Probably?

Jesus: Who knows... after our dialogue.

Carl: I've been trying to figure out what the disagreement is between Evangelicals and Charismatics.

Jesus: You left out Pentecostals.

Carl: Aren't they Charismatics?

Jesus: No. Pentecostals are ex-Wesleyans. Charismatics are ex-Catholics.

Carl: Aren't we all ex-Catholics?

Jesus: I AM not.

Carl: Whatever, I'm not getting into Catholic doctrine.

Jesus: What are you getting into then?

Carl: What should I call it? [looking up, lost in thought]

Jesus: Call what?

Carl: You have the Evangelicals... and that includes the Wesleyans and the Baptists...

Jesus:...Carl, this will take all day.

Carl: What do I call the two big groups that disagree about the Holy Spirit issue then?

Jesus: Remember, you call them denumerations...

Carl: "Denominations".

Jesus: [exasperated] Don't use Math-Division terms to describe my Church pleeeeeze...

Carl: You said "denumeration". There is no such word.

Jesus: I AM the Word, I AM allowed to invent words.

Carl: So did Paul.

Jesus: Who do you think inspired him?

Carl: Back on topic...

Jesus: Yours or mine?

Carl: What should I call the two groups?

Jesus: What did I say they were like earlier?

Carl: You said they were like study groups with different assignments to focus on.

Jesus: So call them by their focused assignments.

Carl: Evangelicals are focused on the _truth_.

Jesus: That's true of everyone. Every person in my Church is focused on Me.

Carl: I said the truth.

Jesus: I AM the Truth. That's why they are all focused on Me.

Carl: So, I can't say the Evangelicals are "Truth-Focused"

Jesus: You could, but so are the Pentecostals and Charismatics, so it doesn't make the distinction you are seeking.

Carl: What's something unique about Evangelicals?

Jesus: Many things.

Carl: I need to call them something for the sake of our conversation.

Jesus: Do you know what Pentecostals call Evangelicals?

Carl: No. Do You?

Jesus: Oh, yes. I AM friends with many Pentecostals.

Carl: Really? I wish I was.

Jesus: I wish you were too, so do they.

Carl: So, what do they call Evangelicals?

Jesus: Pentecostals often call an Evangelical congregation a "Bible Church".

Carl: Well, _they_ believe in the Bible, don't they?

Jesus: You bet they do.

Carl: Why do they call _us_ "Bible Churches" then?

Jesus: Because they respect you for it.

Carl: Huh?

Jesus: Pentecostals understand that you Evangelicals really know your Bibles well. It stands-out to them.

Carl: Don't they know their Bibles?

Jesus: They know my Word. But how they see it, the way you talk about Bible is something else! So, they call your congregations "Bible Churches".

Carl: Then, what can I call them?

Jesus: What would you say the Pentecostal obsession is?

Carl: Oh, that's easy.

Jesus: Tell Me. I AM interested in what you think.

Carl: Pentecostals are all about Holy Spirit, Holy Spirit, Holy Spirit, Holy Spirit, Holy Spirit...

Jesus: Aren't _you_?

Carl: Well, yeah. But there's something in the way they talk about it that stands-out to me.

Jesus: Oh, kind of like how the way you talk about Bible stands-out to them?

Carl: That's a good point.

Jesus: Why, thank you. I AM glad you think so, even though I was asking a question.

Carl: They are so focused on the Spirit it annoys me.

Jesus: It doesn't annoy Me. But they might say the same thing about you and the Bible.

Carl: My Bible talk isn't annoying.

Jesus: I don't think so either.

Carl: They sure are Spirit-Focused aren't they...

Jesus: Hey! That's a good way to put it!

Carl: What? "Spirit-Focused?"

Jesus: Yeah. You called it that, so, like Adam in naming the animals, that's what I'll call it.

Carl: What should I call Evangelicals then?

Jesus: What do your Pentecostal friends you haven't met yet call you?

Carl: I don't know.

Jesus: You can't guess?

Carl: Can we focus on the Bible, please?

Jesus: Fine, there you go.

Carl: Huh?

Jesus: You want to be focused.

Carl: Bible-Focused, maybe.

Jesus: That's it. Bible-Focused, Spirit-Focused.

Carl: Now, that sounds like Evangelicals and Charismatics/Pentecostals.

Jesus: You said it.

Carl: Oh, I know what to call the two groups so no one feels offended!

Jesus: Oh, really?

Carl: Yeah. The Charismatics and Pentecostals... we'll call them "Spirit-Focused" and the Evangelicals... we'll call them "Bible-Focused".

Jesus: Well... if you say so... I suppose. But what about Baptists?

Carl: They are Evangelical. Don't You know?

Jesus: Oh, yeah, I suppose I do know.

Carl: This is fun.

Jesus: I AM having fun too.

Carl: The Spirit-Focused folks... do You think they are very academic?

Jesus: Why do you ask?

Carl: They really don't seem to make much sense out of the Bible.

Jesus: Wait.

Carl: What?

Jesus: You asked about them being academic.

Carl: Yeah.

Jesus: But then you started talking about Bible.

Carl: Yeah... and?

Jesus: You are definitely Bible-Focused.

Carl: I know. That's what I call myself.

Jesus: No, that's what Spirit-Focused Christians call you.

Carl: What's the problem, then?

Jesus: Is Bible-learning the _only thing_ that is academic in Christianity?

Carl: Well, isn't it? Don't we need to be responsible and diligent in studying the Bible?

Jesus: Yes, but is Bible the only thing that you need to be diligent about?

Carl: Well, no...

Jesus: Then why do you ask about Spirit-Focused Christians being academic and then only talk about Bible?

Carl: Well, this is about Your Church! Bible is the academic issue.

Jesus: Bible is the academic issue if you are Bible-Focused.

Carl: You can't be academic about the Spirit.

Jesus: Oh!!!!!!!!! Yes you can!!!!!! I AM, after all.

Carl: Spirit stuff is about acting crazy and rolling on the floor.

Jesus: I AM not on the floor.

Carl: That's not what I mean.

Jesus: I told my twelve disciples I would send them a Teacher. Remember that?

Carl: Yeah. That was when You promised them the Holy Spirit. It's in the Bible.

Jesus: Isn't Teaching an academic role?

Carl: Yeah. Are You saying that we should listen to the Holy Spirit instead of doing our homework? That really irritates me when I hear that.

Jesus: Don't get too irritated, though, you have a point. But I'm saying something different.

Carl: What's that?

Jesus: The Holy Spirit is academic.

Carl: How?

Jesus: When you think of the New Testament and the Holy Spirit, what comes to mind?

Carl: Well, I supposed physical miracles come to mind... if we are talking about a Spirit-Focused sermon then miracles are probably more likely to come up than "the leading of the Spirit" like in my Bible-Focused congregation.

Jesus: "Leading of my Spirit" is your term for what Pentecostals call "Prophecy".

Carl: But when a prophet is wrong he gets stoned.

Jesus: No. In my Second Law I told Moses, if the prophet is accurate in his prophecies and teaches other people to worship false gods—which usually asked for human sacrifices and stuff—I wanted that person put to death. That's a dangerous dude. But I would never execute people who try to obey Me when they are still learning to hear my Voice and making honest mistakes in the process. You should do some homework in Deuteronomy 13:1-5 when you have time.

Carl: I'll look into that later, but, please... I'm on overload.

Jesus: So, let's talk more about physical healing. Know any job professions that specialize in that?

Carl: Are You talking about a physician? As in... a Medical Doctor?

Jesus: Are you a physician?

Carl: No, I'd have to go to medical school for that. I'm in seminary.

Jesus: But you just said that the Spirit didn't have anything to do with academics.

Carl: That was about the _Spirit_!

Jesus: Yes. But then you started talking about physical healing and school. Doctors aren't academic?

Carl: But a doctor is different from the Holy Spirit healing someone.

Jesus: The Holy Spirit doesn't think so. I AM the one who heals.

Carl: That's just a play on words.

Jesus: If the Spirit knows all, can teach all, and can heal all physical conditions, then don't you think that academics are at least related?

Carl: Yes, but it sounds as if You are about to tell me not to go to Bible school and just let the Holy Spirit lead me.

Jesus: I would never say that. I want all of my people to work diligently in knowing my written Word.

Carl: Your Holy Spirit is not an excuse to be lazy in Bible study.

Jesus: And my Spirit put that desire in your heart. That's why you are Bible-Focused.

Carl: Okay, but help me with this academic stuff and Your Spirit. Are You suggesting that I will know more about Your Spirit by going to seminary?

Jesus: No.

Carl: So academics don't lead us into a relationship with the Spirit?

Jesus: Not by themselves.

Carl: Does the Spirit lead us to academics?

Jesus: Not by Himself.

Carl: How do academics relate then?

Jesus: I AM myself. Academics are a responsibility that I placed on _your_ shoulders.

Carl: So, the Spirit is the Spirit, but I need to be academic?

Jesus: Exactly.

Carl: So, how does that relate to miracles?

Jesus: Are you familiar with the term "research?"

Carl: Are You kidding? I'm in seminary!

Jesus: How many miracles have you _researched_?

Carl: I've done lots of Bible study on miracles.

Jesus: That's researching Bible. You sure are Bible-Focused, aren't you?

Carl: That's what Pentecostals seem to think.

Jesus: So they do. I did call you to be Bible-Focused, after all.

Carl: What's Your point about research and miracles then?

Jesus: You research the Bible about miracles, but have you ever actually been academic in researching _miracles themselves?_

Carl: I haven't seen all that many miracles today. They don't really happen much.

Jesus: That isn't very academic of you.

Carl: What?

Jesus: You mean that miracles don't happen very much _in your experience_.

Carl: Yes, if You want to be technical.

Jesus: Not "technical", "academic".

Carl: What?

Jesus: You asked if Spirit-Focused congregations were academic.

Carl: Yes, then You started talking about miracles.

Jesus: And you don't see the need to be academic in your opinion about miracles?

Carl: I know the Bible verses, though.

Jesus: Do you know the actual miracles?

Carl: I haven't seen them myself.

Jesus: So, what do you think about that?

Carl: I supposed they...

Jesus: Exactly!

Carl: Huh?

Jesus: You can only "suppose" because you haven't actually had specific field experience with the actual miracles. Your "miracle" knowledge is limited to Bible.

Carl: Bible isn't limiting!

Jesus: So, it isn't stopping you from going into the _field_ and gaining _experience_.

Carl: But I think that many miracles are just a bunch of people faking it for money.

Jesus: Then go into the field and see them faking it before you talk about it... and see it a bunch of times, not just once, then say, "everyone is faking it." If you are going to talk with authority on the matter, you need _field experience_ , not just theory, even if it's _Bible_ theory.

Carl: But I haven't been in the field of "miracles".

Jesus: Then you don't have an opinion about miracles—you have an "I suppose..."

Carl: What else can I do? I just don't see them happen in my life! And it's really a personal subject. I want them to happen to me, but You are rubbing it in my face! [obviously going into a defensive mode that is so emphatic and unexpected that it is comical]

Jesus: If you want miracles, go to the people who have them.

Carl: You mean I should go to the Spirit-Focused congregations if I want "field experience" with the actual miracles themselves?

Jesus: Why not?

Carl: But they don't do a good job with the Bible!

Jesus: That's okay, you don't go to an apple tree for oranges do you?

Carl: Well, no, I guess not...

Jesus: So, go to seminary for Bible academics and go to Spirit-Focused congregations for "miracle field-experience academics".

Carl: So, what do I do when they start saying nonsense about the Bible that they don't diligently study as much as I do?

Jesus: Do the same thing I do when you start saying nonsense about the miracles that you haven't personally seen—love them!

Carl: So, go to the Spirit-Focused people and see their "maybe" miracles, even though they don't know the academic rigor of the Bible quite like I do?

Jesus: Husky's pull sleds. Retrievers play fetch. Beagles chase rabbits. Spirit-Focused congregations heal people. Bible-Focused congregations study the Bible super well.

Carl: But I've also wanted to heal people.

Jesus: And Spirit-Focused people like to study the Bible.

Carl: But it really bothers me that they don't explain their miracles well. They make a lot of people feel guilty for "not having enough faith" and there's so much that makes me sad...

Jesus: So... are you going to complain or help them be academic?

Carl: Huh?

Jesus: Are you whining?

Carl: Well, no.

Jesus: So...

Carl: I get it. If I think that the Spirit-Focused people aren't so good at using the Bible to explain their miracles—when and why miracles do and do not happen—I should go let them do the miracles and I'll help them with the Bible part.

Jesus: One Body, many parts.

Carl: But I don't think they will listen.

Jesus: They'll listen when you are academic.

Carl: Academic about Bible?

Jesus: No, they'll listen when you are academic about miracles.

Carl: What's that supposed to mean?

Jesus: The Spirit-Focused congregations are my friends. I gave them miracles because I love them.

Carl: Don't You love me?

Jesus: Yes, that's why I gave you an extra deep passion for Bible.

Carl: So? Your point?

Jesus: Do you know why Spirit-Focused congregations don't want to hear your academics about the Bible?

Carl: Why?

Jesus: Because you aren't academic about their miracles that they see on a regular basis.

Carl: Okay?...

Jesus: They know their miracles. They see them. They pray for them. Sometimes miracles don't happen even though they ask Me for them. They want to know why miracles sometimes happen and sometimes don't happen. They try to explain it, sometimes their explanations help... but it's a dramatic anxiety for them. They have a lot of joy and there is a lot of heartache.

Carl: Yeah, I know, that's why I don't like to go there.

Jesus: But they are there, in that game. So, when you express opinions about the game they are playing when you are sitting on the sidelines, it feels to them like you are throwing tomatoes.

Carl: So, they don't want to hear about my super-Bible diligence because I don't understand _them_ first.

Jesus: Yes. I came _into_ the earth. I didn't stay at a distance.

Carl: You want me close to the others in Your family.

Jesus: Yes I do.

Carl: So, if I go and listen and watch and understand their miracles and lack of miracles and watch them live how they live... and I'm "academically responsible" by only talking about things I'm involved with, not just stuff I read about... even though I read about it in the _Bible_... then they will trust me?

Jesus: When you don't say that the stuff they see every day doesn't happen...

Carl:...when I stop accusing them of hallucinating...

Jesus:...they will think...

Carl:...that I'm in touch with reality because I'm in touch with their reality.

Jesus: Even King Nebuchadnezzar said that I AM the one who can solve any mystery because I AM the one who solved _his_ mystery. Understand the people you talk about.

Carl: But I probably won't agree with them. Won't that cause a problem?

Jesus: Not if you are academically responsible about it.

Carl: So, I don't need to agree with them. I just need to be a part of their walk with You?

Jesus: Then they might listen to you.

Carl: What am I supposed to say?

Jesus: Now you are catching on.

Carl: Huh?

Jesus: You finally stopped having an opinion about stuff you haven't seen in the _field_.

Carl: I'm not going to get my beliefs about truth from mere experience. I need the Bible to help explain my experience!

Jesus: But you need an _experience_ for the Bible to help you explain. You don't even have the _experience_ yet.

Carl: I understand! I have it!

Jesus: And I have you.

Carl: They have the Spirit experience and it fascinates them.

Jesus: Like Heaven it does.

Carl: That's why they don't spend so much time being "super-academic" about the Bible.

Jesus: Do you know why there is this difference between the two groups?

Carl: We love You more than they do?

Jesus: Haha, very funny.

Carl: You caught that?

Jesus: It's hard to get anything past Me.

Carl: Why are the two groups different?

Jesus: I have given you and your friends in the Bible-Focused congregations a very strong ability to think. All my people think. All my people believe in the Spirit and seek Him. All my people know and study the Bible— _but not all in the same way._

Carl: Okay. I pretty much know that. And?

Jesus: You each tend to focus on the things that fascinate you. You find fulfillment in your talents. Visiting the other groups isn't a mere matter of loving the Holy Spirit or loving the Bible, it's about loving each other.

Carl: Yes, we covered this in "Child Development". A parent expresses love to the child by showing an interest in what the child does... in saying, "Oh, I like that picture," or by having a pretend tea party. By doing stuff _with_ children we are really saying we love _them_.

Jesus: Yes. So, you don't have to be just as passionate about the stuff others are passionate about. Just be passionately involved with _them_. I AM.

Carl: Are You sure they will listen?

Jesus: I AM.

Carl: I know, but I'm not. Help me. Why in the world would they listen to me? Tell me more.

Jesus: There are many Spirit-Focused people I love. They have a lot of "field experience" and they may not always say it, but they would love for a Bible-obsessed intellectual to talk to them about their experience and coach them in being a little more exact with their Bible interpretation of it all... without just telling them they are wrong and without acting like the smartest guy in the room.

Carl: Like when I was young and my older brother helped me throw a baseball better!

Jesus: Are you referring to the Spirit-Focused guys helping you understand the miracles?

Carl: We learn from each other.

Jesus: And grow together in Me.

Carl: That makes a lot of sense.

Jesus: That's enough for today.

Carl: We'll talk tomorrow?

Jesus: It's all up to you.

#  **Scene 4: Greek to Me**

Carl: There You are!

Jesus: Oh! You found Me!

Carl: I've been searching all over for You.

Jesus: That's why you found Me.

Carl: How long have You been over there?

Jesus: Forever.

Carl: But I didn't see You there before.

Jesus: You weren't looking hard enough.

Carl: It should have been easy to see You over there.

Jesus: Yer tellin' Me! I've been waiting for you to notice.

Carl: Why didn't You say anything?

Jesus: I like playing find and seek.

Carl: You mean "hide and seek".

Jesus: No, I mean "find and seek". Find Me by seeking Me.

Carl: Whatever. I've been meaning to ask You...

Jesus: Ask whatever.

Carl: We were talking about Baptism of the Holy Spirit yesterday.

Jesus: We were talking about many things yesterday.

Carl: Our conversation has gotten all over the map.

Jesus: I had a maple tree tell Me the same thing once. I just told her that she needed to branch-out in multiple directions. She kept wanting to grow straight up. Up is good, but that's more for bamboo trees.

Carl: Why are we talking about trees?

Jesus: Because bamboo trees lay-in a big root system for a long time, without getting any taller, then, suddenly, they grow straight up really fast. In a few years they get taller than a lot of maple trees ever get in their lifetimes.

Carl: I don't want to talk about trees!

Jesus: Growth is growth.

Carl: I want to talk about Baptism of the Holy Spirit.

Jesus: You mean _my_ Holy Spirit.

Carl: Yes, Baptism of _Your_ Holy Spirit.

Jesus: "Baptism"—what's that?

Carl: Don't You know?

Jesus: Well, I know, but I didn't know that you spoke Greek.

Carl: I don't.

Jesus: I didn't think so. I AM usually not wrong. [express sarcasm in 'usually']

Carl: I've never known You to be wrong.

Jesus: Glad to hear you say so. But why are you using Greek words like "baptism?"

Carl: The Bible uses the word "baptism".

Jesus: Your _translation_ of the Bible uses the word "baptism", but it's not an English word. They didn't translate that one. It's Greek.

Carl: Whatever, it's the word translated.

Jesus: No it's not translated, it's _transliterated_. It's a Greek word, just spelled with English letters.

Carl: Whatever, You know what I mean.

Jesus: But do you know what "baptism" means?

Carl: Sure, it's when a person gets put under water by the pastor, after becoming a Christian, with a whole bunch of other Christians watching.

Jesus: See, that's why you have a question.

Carl: Why is why I have a question?

Jesus: That sounded kind of funny. Do you ever listen to yourself talk?

Carl: This is confusing.

Jesus: You got that right. You don't even know what the Greek word "baptism" means.

Carl: I just told You what it means.

Jesus: No, that's something you and your congregation invented it to mean.

Carl: Aren't we supposed to get baptized?

Jesus: The Christians who speak Greek are.

Carl: So, we shouldn't do the whole "water" thing?

Jesus: I never said that, but "water thing" would be a better term for an English speaker.

Carl: Why?

Jesus: Because it uses English words.

Carl: "Baptism" is English.

Jesus: No it isn't, it's Greek. Are you listening? You need to listen to Me to understand Me.

Carl: Okay, so, just to make You happy, what word should I use?

Jesus: What does "baptism" mean?

Carl: I just told You and You didn't like my answer.

Jesus: You never answered. You talked about a sacrament of my Church... something that Christians do _together_ by definition or else they really aren't doing it. Like "fellowship". It isn't something you can have all by yourself or else it isn't fellowship.

Carl: Okay, fine. Baptism... Do I need to use a dictionary!?

Jesus: That would be a good start. Just make sure you use a Greek dictionary, after all, "baptism" is a Greek word. You won't find a meaningful definition for "baptism" in an English dictionary.

Carl: Okay, my Greek teacher had me buy a Greek dictionary. And it says that "baptism" means to "drench" or "immerse".

Jesus: Let's say "drench" because people on the street usually don't say "immerse".

Carl: You like street talk?

Jesus: The New Testament was written in slang. New Testament authors found slang "inspiring".

Carl: So it's okay if I use slang?

Jesus: I never wrote any grammar books—that's people trying to understand each other.

Carl: So grammar doesn't matter?

Jesus: Grammar, no grammar, whichever communicates the best—all depending on the moment.

Carl: But I still have to use proper grammar on my school papers?

Jesus: Only if you want your classes to be _past-completed_ rather than _continuous_.

Carl: So, we are calling it "drenching" not "baptism".

Jesus: Now you're talking English! People can understand you... and you can understand yourself.

Carl: So, I have a question about Baptism of Your Holy Spirit.

Jesus: You mean "Drenching" of my Holy Spirit.

Carl: Okay, fine! _"Drenching" of Your Holy Spirit!_

Jesus: What's your question?

Carl: I'm given the Spirit at salvation. So, why do Spirit-Focused congregations think that Baptism of Your Holy... I... I mean "Drenching" of Your Holy Spirit happens later?

Jesus: The question doesn't make sense.

Carl: It makes perfect sense!

Jesus: Now you're in a yes-no-yes-no argument—like a dog chasing his tail. Those go nowhere. State your reasons, please.

Carl: They think baptism...

Jesus: You mean "drenching..."

Carl: Yes, they think "drenching" and "indwelling" are different.

Jesus: And so they are.

Carl: Well, yes, when we say "drenching" instead of "baptism".

Jesus: You mean when you speak plain English it makes more sense?

Carl: It seems to...

Jesus: Wow. Who'd a thought? English making more sense to an English speaker than talking in "Greek".

Carl: But this is a big debate in the Church!

Jesus: You mean in _my_ Church.

Carl: Yes, we've been through that.

Jesus: And...

Carl: The solution to that debate can't be so simple can it?

Jesus: Do you think that speaking different languages was a problem at the Tower of Babylon?

Carl: Yeah it confused everyone. That's why they called it the Tower of Babble... when people would talk in different languages it sounds like babble.

Jesus: Kind of like how you sound to people on the street who don't know Greek?

Carl: But Babylon's Tower made people spread all over the world.

Jesus: And get divided just like my Church is today.

Carl: So You are saying that the solution to the debate about Baptism...

Jesus:...you mean "Drenching".

Carl:...so You are saying that the solution to the debate about "Drenching" of Your Holy Spirit...

Jesus:...there isn't a debate about "Drenching of my Holy Spirit" because: first, people never call it that, and second, if they did there wouldn't be a debate because it would make sense.

Carl: But don't I get Your Holy Spirit living inside of me when I accept You into my heart?

Jesus: By definition. My Spirit lives inside of you from Salvation.

Carl: Don't Pentecostals disagree?

Jesus: They'd better not. That would be a big insult to my Spirit who knows better. And many of them don't think that way anyways.

Carl: Really? I thought they thought that...

Jesus:...because he said that she said that they said that they were told by the one guy that...

Carl: You sound like a game of "telephone".

Jesus: I was just following your lead.

Carl: But I thought that they thought that we don't "have" Your Holy Spirit.

Jesus: They honestly don't think about that very much.

Carl: Huh?

Jesus: You have my Spirit dwelling inside of you. So, naturally you think about it.

Carl: Don't they also?

Jesus: Well, yes, but they also have the "drenching" so they think about drenching more often than the indwelling.

Carl: How can I have the "indwelling" of Your Spirit without the "baptism" or.. "drenching", as You say?

Jesus: Do you believe in Christian water baptism through dunking or sprinkling?

Carl: I've been to both kinds of congregations. They each have good reasons, so I really don't care, but dunking is a lot better to me because it's more fun.

Jesus: Okay. What about "drinking?"

Carl: Not in Church!

Jesus: No. I don't mean alcohol. I mean "drinking" water for water baptism.

Carl: Huh? Wait... You said "baptism". You wanted me to say "drenching".

Jesus: Oh! You caught Me. I guess you're right. [like playing with a child]

Carl: So, You meant to say...

Jesus: Yes, what did I "mean" to say?

Carl: Would I recommend water "drenching" by drinking a glass of water?

Jesus: Yes. What do you think about Christian water baptism/drenching by drinking a glass of water, rather than dunking or sprinkling?

Carl: Well, that just wouldn't make sense—especially since we are calling it "drenching". You don't "drench" by drinking.

Jesus: So, why would you ever ask if "drenching" of my Holy Spirit is about indwelling of my Holy Spirit?

Carl: Aren't they the same?

Jesus: Um... I invented the languages, so I would know... "drenching" is something that happens on the _out_ side... there isn't anything _"in"_ about it... other than the person who is "in" the water... or "in" my Holy Spirit.

Carl: So, as a Christian, I have Your Holy Spirit?

Jesus: Yep. I gave Him to you. He was a gift.

Carl: But I feel like You are saying I'm a "have-not" when You tell me that there's more I don't have.

Jesus: You have not only if you ask not.

Carl: Okay, but it still sounds mean for You to say that.

Jesus: Ask and you shall receive. But don't ask selfishly, that isn't what I AM all about.

Carl: But how can I have Your Holy Spirit if there's still more?

Jesus: Do you have a job?

Carl: Yes. I'm responsible.

Jesus: That wasn't what I was asking. I mean the "paycheck". Do you get a paycheck?

Carl: Yes. Every two weeks, Friday after work.

Jesus: So, when do you "have" the money?

Carl: When they give me my check.

Jesus: Can you buy something with the check?

Carl: If I cash it at the bank first.

Jesus: Ah! My point exactly!

Carl: You can't sell people Your Holy Spirit.

Jesus: And He's not for sale. But I'm talking about "having" versus _"having"._

Carl: It's the same word, though.

Jesus: Don't your English dictionaries give multiple definitions for one word?

Carl: Yeah. I guess... Yeah, I suppose they do. So, You mean there's different kinds of "having".

Jesus: When you get your paycheck at work, you own that money. It's yours. You carry it. It's with you. But you still have to do something with it before it can be used for its full potential.

Carl: Yep. It's called "cashing a check".

Jesus: Think of "Drenching" in my Holy Spirit like you would think of cashing a check. You already had it before, but now you _really_ have it.

Carl: It's just hard if I haven't done all that, ya know. I feel kind of condemned when You tell me that there's more that I don't yet have.

Jesus: Do you feel condemned on your way to the bank with your paycheck?

Carl: No, I usually worry about whether it will bounce.

Jesus: That's 'cause your boss isn't a Jewish carpenter.

Carl: I get what You mean. I don't feel condemned on my way to the bank. So I shouldn't feel like You are condemning me just by telling me that there's more of You that I can "have" in my life. I guess it only makes sense. Why be insulted by an invitation?

Jesus: Don't try to validate yourself _instead_ of taking more of the things that I offer to you. You can always grow more in Me. I give my Spirit to all Christians right away. But Drenching in my Holy Spirit is about being together. That's why it often happens when Christians pray together. It's about Christian fellowship and evangelism.

Carl: So why does Luke write in the Acts of the Apostles about "receiving" the Spirit? They ask each other, "Have you _received_ the Sprit?"

Jesus: You've really never talked to a Greek person have you?

Carl: You would know.

Jesus: So I do know. They aren't making a theological-technical distinction when they say "receive" my Sprit. Get it?

Carl: Yes.

Jesus: No, do you "get" Me?

Carl: Yes. I understand.

Jesus: You missed my point.

Carl: Huh?

Jesus: See! You know what I mean.

Carl: I'm not pickin' up what You're puttin' down.

Jesus: You "get" Me...

Carl: Yes, "get" means "understand". I "get" You. I "understand" You.

Jesus: How about what "receive" means when Luke writes it?

Carl: Are You messing with my mind?

Jesus: When I just now said, "Do you _get_ Me?" Did you think I was asking if you had accepted my gift of salvation... did you think I was asking you if you "have Me" in the sense of "being a Christian?"

Carl: No. I thought You were asking if I _understood_ You.

Jesus: Exactly! "Get" equals "understand". It's an expression. And you thought that without even thinking about the fact that you were thinking about that fact.

Carl: Okay... so?...

Jesus: Greek-speakers in the New Testament were human, just like you. They weren't thinking about all this technical-theological "I mean this, not that" when they said, "do you have the Holy Spirit?" They meant, more or less, "about the Holy Spirit... have you been through that whole 'drenching' thing with Him and stuff?"

Carl: So, I have Your Holy Spirit when I become a Christian and drenching is about cashing the check?

Jesus: More or less.

Carl: And the Spirit-Focused Pentecostals and Charismatics don't disagree?

Jesus: Most of them don't and none of them should.

Carl: So, what is "Drenching" of Your Holy Spirit?

Jesus: Think of it as throwing gasoline on a candle...

Carl: Oh... that could start a fire.

Jesus: Or a revival. But, that's if you like water baptism by sprinkling. You said you prefer...

Carl:...water drenching by dunking.

Jesus: So, we might do better to say that "Drenching of my Holy Spirit" is like "throwing the lantern in the tank of kerosene".

Carl: That could _really_ start a fire.

Jesus: Or _really_ start a revival.

Carl: Well... solving that debate can't be so simple. It's just too good to be true.

Jesus: I AM not too Good to be True.

Carl: That isn't what I meant.

Jesus: What did you mean then?

Carl: A lot of people have poured their hearts and minds into understanding and writing about the disagreement between Spirit-Focused and Bible-Focused congregations over Baptism/"Drenching" of Your Holy Spirit. If the solution is so simple, then it's almost an insult to all the papers they have written.

Jesus: That is a very loving thing to say.

Carl: I'd like the solution to be simple, but I don't want to insult the people on both sides of that disagreement. That's a bigger reason why I have a hard time with such a simple solution as "call it 'drenching' instead of 'baptism'". That solution insults hearts of academically-responsible people in both groups.

Jesus: Do you know why it isn't an insult?

Carl: You mean they weren't wasting their time in a difficult debate, even with such a simple solution?

Jesus: If I made the answer that easy for those specific people to find, then they wouldn't have done the work I wanted them to do.

Carl: Work for what? You mean academic work?

Jesus: Remember why I told you that people are in different "denumerations" as you call them?

Carl: You mean different "denominations?"

Jesus: I told you, please don't use terms from Math-Division to describe my Church.

Carl: Okay, "denumerations..."

Jesus: Why did I say I wanted them different?

Carl: Hmm... You said something about "study-groups".

Jesus: Yes. I've been having my Church focus on different topics, with a friendly repartee, to discuss and dive deep into my written Word, and develop an academic understanding of my miracles—both in theory and in the field...

Carl:...and in Drenching/Baptism of Your Holy Spirit?

Jesus: With all that study for the debates... people know my Word quite well, don't you think?

Carl: They don't always say that about each other.

Jesus: Well, the Word of God knows them quite well. Have faith in Me.

Carl: But, what will bring an end to their fighting?

Jesus: Mutual victory.

Carl: What?

Jesus: Remember you asked Me about Satan?

Carl: Yes.

Jesus: You asked if I was ever going to get rid of him.

Carl: Yes.

Jesus: Well, are you ready for my answer?

Carl: Yes. Are You going to get rid of Satan?

Jesus: Yes, we are.

Carl: WE!?

Jesus: Yep.

Carl: But I thought _You_ had the victory on the Cross.

Jesus: Yes, of course. I AM the only one who had that victory. But remember, I did it when I was incarnate—I did it when I was in my physical, limited, human body, walking on the earth.

Carl: Okay. I'm not quite following You.

Jesus: Oh! Carl. You are one of my favorite followers.

Carl: That's not what I meant.

Jesus: You looked like you needed the re-assurance.

Carl: Okay. Yes, I'm reassured, but I'd be more reassured if You'd tell me why You say "we" will defeat Satan.

Jesus: I will crush him under your feet.

Carl: Paul said that.

Jesus: I inspired him.

Carl: So, if _You_ crush Satan under my feet...

Jesus: Which involves "we".

Carl: What's that got to do with Drenching/Baptism of Your Holy Spirit?

Jesus: Armor of God... The Word is the sword of...

Carl: Your Spirit.

Jesus: Yep. I AM.

Carl: Okay. We use knowledge of the Word and Drenching of Your Holy Spirit and with all this... and the belt of Truth and Peace and Faith... and stuff... we overcome Satan. And a proper understanding of all of this—including Drenching of Your Holy Spirit—is part of Your plan to purge Satan from the earth.

Jesus: That's part of what revival leads to. Fulfill the Great Commission, then... I purge.

Carl: So, there's something bugging me.

Jesus: I know. You are going to ask how Drenching of my Holy Spirit happens and you are all upset about the whole drama with speaking in "tongues".

Carl: How did You know I was going to ask about that?

Jesus: Trade secrets.

Carl: So, help me out here.

Jesus: Back to the dictionary. Any guesses.

Carl: Hmm... I'd suppose You're going to talk about "tongues". But that's an English word.

Jesus: True, but it is a Greek expression. What's another English word you can use for "tongues?"

Carl: "Languages".

Jesus: Yes. I invented Greek, so I know... When they make it plural—"languages" and not just "language"—they mean many. My point is that it doesn't just mean "saying weird stuff". In some cases it might be translated, "...they spoke in many languages, not just their own."

Carl: But that often bothers me. Are we supposed to understand all of that "tongues-languages" stuff or not? We don't want to just sound like babble-babble.

Jesus: You say Greek words like "baptism" or label evangelism with the aggressive verb "outreach" and other things non-Churched folk don't understand—you do it all the time.

Carl: But that's different.

Jesus: It's all "Greek" to them.

Carl: Fine, good point. But I still want to know about that whole "prayer language" thing.

Jesus: Paul told Christians not to do that in the context of "assembly".

Carl: But is it a legitimate gift from Your Spirit? It just seems stupid to me... people talking in all that babble-babble.

Jesus: Look, Carl... If someone wants to praise Me with gaa-gaa-goo-goo noises, what's that to you? I use things people think are foolish to shame the wisdom of the wise. Maybe that's a good way to grow confidence in Me. I can "lead" you to talk to a new person on the street, call a friend, fly to a different country, and I AM allowed to "lead" you to say "gaa-gaa" instead of "goo-goo". Don't judge my other servants.

Carl: Okay, alright, that's between them and You. But do I need to hear it in Sunday morning worship?

Jesus: No. I inspired Paul with the idea of coaching the Corinthians about that. Do you know what "assembly" means?

Carl: Yeah. It means "together". Wait... are we going back to another "Greek" discussion?

Jesus: To the Greek speakers, "assembly", which comes from a Greek word, naturally, means "conversation-assembly". It's not this American-Western thing you think of today where one guy talks and everyone else keeps their mouths shut. In Greek Assembly there was more "public dialogue", or "conversation-assembly". Did you see how interactive the "assembly" was in Ephesus in Luke's record of the Acts of the Apostles?

Carl: Yes, the people of Ephesus were all upset about Paul and held a town meeting. It was an interactive bunch.

Jesus: That's an example of Greek assembly: interactive-conversation-assembly. Paul told the Corinthians not to address the "conversation-assembly" in "other languages" unless it was translated, and only three times per gathering at that.

Carl: Okay, so, if some guy is praying quietly by himself in Sunday worship...

Jesus:...or Monday worship...

Carl: Who worships on Monday!?

Jesus: Oh, there are people who worship Me every day of the week... _together_.

Carl: We all do that, but I mean the "Sunday morning" gig.

Jesus: Don't limit my answer by limiting your question. What about a small worship gathering in someone's home during the week?

Carl: Okay, sure... if some guy is praying to You by himself quietly, in a small home worship gathering or in a big weekend assembly, and I happen to hear him... doesn't it have to be translated?

Jesus: Not if he isn't addressing people.

Carl: Is that Biblical?

Jesus: I didn't inspire Luke to cite every translation in the Acts of the Apostles. I'm not obsessive-compulsive about translating every single time anyone says something in another language. I let you speak Greek to people on the street all the time and don't strike you with a bolt of lightening.

Carl: Alright, but sometimes this "tongues" thing gets out of hand.

Jesus: Then I give you permission to say something. And if you don't blend well together, be decent, be respectful, but leave. No one has to be labeled "wrong", no one has to be rude, just remove yourself and grow in friendship with people wherever you can. Maybe you can be friends outside of corporate worship first.

Carl: So, who's right, then?

Jesus: I AM allowed to have my people pray aloud in my own language with their friends, but I never want people to make a show of it. People are going to make lots of mistakes as they grow closer to Me. You're a Bible-Focused "academic" Christian, so keep your composure and don't get angry. I AM still on the throne, no matter what. Don't get scared and don't get mean. Who knows, you just might recognize someone saying something in a foreign language you know in one of those meetings.

Carl: You mean You might ask _me_ to translate it?

Jesus: If you understand it.

Carl: But I don't do all that "Holy Ghost Oooga-Booga" stuff!

Jesus: That just might be why I give you the clear-minded understanding of it.

Carl: We all have our different roles, I suppose.

Jesus: One Body, many parts. I have called all of you. Maybe I want you to help keep a little bit of order in my Church—if that's what's in your heart. I only ask you to be kind in doing so. The people you're talking about are worshiping Me, even if it isn't always pretty or perfect.

Carl: I have to actually go and visit other congregations to do that, don't I?

Jesus: Yes.

Carl: But will they welcome me when I talk about helping them to be orderly?

Jesus: If they know you love them because you understand them first.

Carl: I may have to visit several times for that.

Jesus: If you love everyone in my Church, it shouldn't be too hard for you.

Carl: But all this "tongues/languages" stuff isn't as important to me as it is to them. I wanted to know how Drenching/Baptism of Your Holy Spirit happens. How do I know if I have this "Drenching" or not?

Jesus: Look at what I inspired Luke to write. What usually happens with Drenching in my Holy Spirit?

Carl: A lot of it involves laying on of hands.

Jesus: Is that always the case?

Carl: No, in chapter 2 "tongues of fire" came on them.

Jesus: That's Drenching of my Spirit... I can do it with my own hands or you can do it with yours.

Carl: So, where does "praying in multiple languages" come in to all that?

Jesus: It is something that happens for evangelism and private worship after Drenching in my Holy Spirit, but I never meant that to be the main focus. The bigger issue is the laying on of hands which causes it... and being together to worship Me.

Carl: But how do I prove that I have it?

Jesus: Did I ever ask you to prove that you have it?

Carl: No.

Jesus: So why are you worried about it?

Carl: Other people are.

Jesus: Are you comparing yourself to others again?

Carl: I suppose, yes, I am.

Jesus: Well, don't.

Carl: Okay.

Jesus: Drenching in my Spirit is between you and Me. Don't try to prove to yourself that you have stuff. Simply have faith in Me.

Carl: And focus on what _empowers_ people to grow closer to You, not so much on trying to prove our attainment.

Jesus: That'll be all for today.

Carl: Thanks Jesus. That really helps diminish the drama.

Jesus: You know why there's so much drama, don't you?

Carl: Because I'm a mess?

Jesus: No. The _world_ is a mess. It's in this "night-and-day" routine for now. In the New Heaven and Earth, we will have True Day with no night.

Carl: That will be a relief.

Jesus: I AM separating light from darkness. So, for now, we struggle. Don't loose heart about it. The more you come into my Light, the more calm and stable you will become.

Carl: Now that makes sense!

Jesus: I have always made sense. The more you know Me, the more I will make sense _to you_.

#  **Scene 5: Three**

Alexander: I have a word from the Lord.

Carl: Huh?

Alexander: He gave me a word, and I have it.

Carl: Have what?

Alexander: A word.

Carl: _A_ word? You've said many of them.

Alexander: Come on, you're ruining the Spirit.

Carl: How can I ruin a spirit?

Jesus: Hey guys. So, I see you are getting acquainted.

Alexander: Lord!

Jesus: Alexander!

Carl: You two know each other?

Jesus: Of course we do. Alexander, here, goes to my Church.

Alexander: Lord, I have Your word.

Jesus: Good. Keep it. Remember, I told the Church of Philadelphia to keep my word.

Alexander: Not _that_ kind of word.

Jesus: What kind did you mean then?

Alexander: The kind of word You gave me.

Jesus: Which one was that? I've given thousands of words. Did one of them seem extra special to you?

Alexander: I thought it was extra special to _You_.

Jesus: Everyone is extra special to Me.

Carl: Um, Jesus?

Jesus: Yes, Carl?

Carl: Is he for real?

Jesus: Oh yes. Alexander is real. I made him.

Carl: He kind of scares me.

Jesus: Alexander, did you hear that?

Alexander: I'm taking a hit for the kingdom.

Jesus: Alexander!

Alexander: Jesus!

Jesus: Carl is your friend.

Alexander: I know.

Carl: I am?

Jesus: I AM.

Carl: He is? [to Jesus]

Alexander: He IS. [to Carl]

Carl: But, Jesus, he scares me.

Jesus: I AM not scared of Alexander. Alexander, don't scare your friends.

Alexander: Okay. But I'm just so excited that I heard from You, Jesus!

Jesus: I'm excited that you heard from Me too, but we also want _Carl_ to be excited.

Carl: Would someone please explain what's going on here.

Jesus: Carl, this is Alexander.

Carl: We've met, and I'm not sure it's a good thing.

Jesus: It is good.

Carl: But what's with all this strange stuff he's saying?

Jesus: He's just expressing himself. Can't you understand him?

Carl: Nope.

Jesus: I can.

Carl: Can he understand himself?

Alexander: It doesn't matter. I just want to understand more of Jesus.

Jesus: And I want both of you to understand more of Me. That's why I brought you together.

Carl–Alexander [together]: [look at each other, then Jesus] We'd much rather know You by ourselves.

Jesus: See! _That's_ my Spirit!

Carl: Huh?

Alexander: Wait.

Carl: What just happened?

Alexander: We actually said the same thing to Jesus.

Jesus: You often do.

Carl: Sorry, but, I just can't be in the same place as him. [looking up]

Jesus: What's wrong with Me?

Carl: Not _You_ , Jesus, I meant Alexander.

Alexander: I agree, this just won't work.

Jesus: I think it's working quite well.

Carl: How is it working?

Alexander: I have a word to deliver!

Jesus: You two are talking— _together_.

Carl: But the only thing we agreed on was that we disagree.

Alexander: It was a "divine coincidence" that the Lord inspired our words to be the same.

Carl: See! He just said "inspired".

Jesus: I've done a lot of that in my Life.

Carl: But only the Bible is inspired!

Jesus: Yes, the Bible is inspired, but I also inspire _people_ —people aren't Bibles. Where do you think creativity comes from?

Carl: But when he says his _message_ is "inspired" he's adding to the Bible!

Jesus: I don't see his Bible getting any bigger.

Alexander: There he goes talking all of that gobbledygook! Does he always have to make everything so complicated?

Jesus: It seems simple to him.

Alexander: He doesn't seem simple to me.

Jesus: That's because you didn't make him.

Alexander: That's You, not me.

Jesus: Just like I made you.

Carl: Would someone please go back to what I was talking about?

Alexander: You just want to talk about yourself.

Carl: You should talk.

Alexander: Thank you, I have a word from the Lord that I need to deliver.

Carl: That's not what I meant.

Jesus: Alexander?

Alexander: Yes, Lord?

Jesus: What is this word you have? Go ahead, tell us.

Carl: Um, I'm scared.

Jesus: I AM not.

Carl: But I don't want to start rolling on the floor, frothing at the mouth!

Alexander: Jesus, what is he talking about?

Jesus: He's never met someone like you before.

Carl: Oh, yes I did, for two minutes at this one street light. This lady was shouting...

Alexander: He just called me a woman!

Carl: That's not what I meant.

Jesus: For an intellectual, you sure did overlook that detail, Carl.

Carl: But it wasn't the fact that she was a woman that made her crazy.

Jesus: If you keep talking like that you are going to get into trouble with all the women I created.

Carl: Yeah, well, You made them!

Jesus: Yes. Yes I did. So, Alexander, your word I gave you...

Carl: But I'm scared!

Alexander: What's he scared of?

Jesus: He's sacred because of the way you started talking.

Carl: You mean the _strange_ way he started talking.

Alexander: What about the strange way you were talking about perspiration and adding to the Bible.

Carl: _In_ spiration!

Alexander: Whatever. Same difference.

Jesus: Alexander, you are going to cause Carl to have a heart-attack. Those words are very important to him.

Alexander: And Your word is important to _me_. That's why I want to deliver it.

Carl: His Word is important to me too! I study it all the time.

Alexander: Does he think that You don't talk to us today?

Carl: Does he always add to Scripture like this?

Alexander: I'm not adding anything to the Bible.

Carl: But you were talking about a _word_!

Alexander: I never said _Bible_!

Carl: But the Bible is the _Word_!

Alexander: Not the one I have from the Lord.

Carl: The Bible _is from_ the Lord!

Alexander: So is this word I have.

Jesus: It's so nice to see you two having fellowship.

Carl: Which one of us is right?

Alexander: There he goes again.

Carl: I mean, technically speaking... if we disagree, then at least one of us has to be wrong. It's a simple permutation of logic.

Alexander: Jesus, does he know English?

Jesus: Better than he knows Greek.

Alexander: Everything he just said was Greek to me.

Carl: Don't you know Greek?

Jesus: Neither of you know Greek well enough to talk. I gave the two of you English.

Carl: What's with that English language nonsense? It's one of the most disorganized languages...

Alexander: Yer tellin' me.

Carl: Yeah, I think we might agree on something. English is crazy.

Alexander: Lord, if You are so smart, why is English such a disorganized language?

Jesus: I didn't give anyone English at the Tower of Babble. My languages actually made sense. English—that was a mess you humans made.

Carl: But You said You made English.

Jesus: No. I said I _gave_ you English. Your ancestors were the ones who "made" it.

Alexander: Ah, sins of the fathers, visited on the sons.

Carl: That expired with the New Covenant.

Alexander: Shekinah Glory!

Carl: That expired too!

Jesus: No. My glory is still here.

Alexander: What's this stuff about God having expiration dates?

Carl: I never said that.

Alexander: But you said generational sin expired.

Carl: That's cause you were saying God would curse innocent children with the evil of their parents. God doesn't condemn people like that anymore.

Jesus: I never did.

Alexander-Carl: Huh?

Jesus: If the parents make a mess, it will affect the kids. Kind of like English.

Carl: I don't like English.

Alexander: Speaking in tongues makes more sense to me.

Carl: You know... [shaking finger] he might actually have a point there.

Jesus: Ah! Unity is coming...

Carl: As long as he doesn't speak in tongues around me.

Jesus: He speaks in tongues around Me.

Alexander: You can't speak in tongues because you don't have the Holy Spirit!

Jesus: My Holy Spirit.

Alexander: Ah! He certainly is! Selah!

Carl: I do to have the Holy Spirit!

Jesus: My Holy Spirit.

Alexander: Why can't you speak in tongues then!?

Jesus: Guys... My Spirit is the Spirit of unity. If both of you speak in "defense" it will seem like grater gibberish than speaking in different languages.

Carl: But he just said I don't have Your Holy Spirit.

Jesus: He's not being super-technical.

Carl: But I try my best to be smart about this stuff. We should be technical.

Jesus: Then be smart and figure out what his meaning is.

Carl: Here goes... Alexander, what is your "meaning?"

Alexander: Ask and ye shall receive.

Carl: See! He's not making any sense!

Alexander: That's 'cause you don't ask.

Carl: I just did ask you!

Jesus: Boys! Please.

Alexander: Lord, there's nothing I have against him. I have a great friendship with You and I want him to have as much fun as we do.

Carl: I do too have a friendship with Jesus! Don't you tell me I don't know the Lord!

Jesus: He never said you didn't.

Carl: Sounded to me like he just said he knows You better than I do!

Alexander: Who's comparing? I just want more of the Lord, for both of us! And you cry, "Bloody murder!"

Jesus: I was.

Carl: It just isn't tactful.

Jesus: Alexander, are you trying to insult him?

Alexander: No, I'm trying to save him.

Jesus: Only I can do that. But you don't want to undermine him by telling him there is more to know, do you?

Alexander: No. I tell people about You because I care about them.

Jesus: Okay, Alexander has walked with Me and seen some of my miracles. They excited him and he wants to share them with you. Is that so bad?

Carl: No, not when You put it like that. But he doesn't put it that way. He makes me feel invalidated.

Alexander: I don't want you to feel invalidated.

Jesus: He doesn't want you to feel invalidated.

Carl: You both said the same thing.

Jesus: I inspired him.

Carl: He's not the Bible.

Jesus: I never said he was a Bible. It was merely a good idea for the moment.

Carl: So _that's_ what he means when he says he has a "word" from You? It's just a "good idea for the moment?"

Jesus: Something like that, maybe.

Alexander: Why does he have to make this complicated?

Jesus: It isn't complicated to Carl. Besides, he sees you as complicated in your own way.

Alexander: Me!? _He's_ the one using all the big, strange words.

Carl: Do you _ever_ use a dictionary?

Alexander: At least I don't read it like a novel.

Jesus: Neither of you use your Greek dictionaries like you could.

Carl: Getting back on topic...

Alexander: Does he always talk like that?

Jesus: I made him that way. Tickles Me to no end.

Alexander: Infinite-eternal.

Carl: Do you even know what those words mean?

Jesus: Alexander is not ignorant. He just isn't as passionate about the same things I made you passionate about.

Carl: So why does he say I don't "have" the Spirit?

Jesus: My Spirit.

Alexander: _His_ Spirit.

Carl: What does he mean!?

Alexander: Can I just pray for you?

Jesus: Alexander, that sounds bad. Don't say "for" say "with".

Alexander: It matters?

Jesus: It matters to Carl. He's the one you're talking to.

Carl: Sure, you can pray for me.

Alexander: It doesn't seem to matter to him.

Jesus: That's because he's beginning to understand what you mean. He's looking past your words and seeing you more of the way I see you.

Alexander: Well, if he understands, then why do I need to be so technical with my prepositions?

Carl: He knows what a preposition is?

Jesus: We've been through this.

Alexander: If Carl understands me, then why do the words matter?

Jesus: The words matter to his friends. It's good practice.

Alexander: Now that makes sense.

Carl: Now you're both making sense.

Jesus: Glad I AM making sense... to you both.

Carl: Are we going to pray already?

Alexander: I can't wait!

Carl: I'm not going to hit the floor and start rolling around for like five hours or anything am I?

Jesus: I did most of that for you.

Carl: I'm kind of scared. What if he is wrong about this?

Jesus: AM I bigger?

Carl: Yeah. I suppose.

Jesus: I AM. And even if Alexander is wrong about his ideas, my Spirit is in you and I protect you. Nothing evil can hurt you, but you can hurt yourselves with disunity.

Carl: But he just said I don't _have_ Your Spirit.

Jesus: He's being figurative, not "exact-technical" like you, when you talk.

Carl: What's wrong with being technical?

Alexander: Lots. It's really confusing.

Carl: I didn't ask _you!_

Jesus: Nothing's wrong with being technical... so long as I made you that way.

Alexander: Okay, fine. I'll try to understand that Carl needs to be technical, even though he doesn't always make sense.

Jesus:... to you. He makes perfect sense to _Me_.

Alexander: Does he make sense to _himself?_

Carl: _You're_ the one who prays in a language he doesn't understand.

Alexander: All of us are speaking English, and that doesn't make sense to any of us.

Carl: [shaking finger] He's got good point there.

Jesus: You guys agreed on that before.

Alexander-Carl: Really?

Jesus: You agree on a lot more than you know.

Carl: Okay, I'm going to let Alexander, my new "friend" here, pray for/with/whatever me. I just want to make sure... I'm not going to start levitating or anything, right?

Jesus: You're seeking Me with your whole heart, right?

Carl: I hope so.

Jesus: If I tell you to stop, you'll obey Me, but still be kind to Alexander, right?

Carl: Right.

Jesus: Then, do like Peter, and step out of the boat.

Carl: But Peter got all wet when he did that.

Jesus: That's 'cause it was already raining.

Carl: No I mean he fell into the water.

Jesus: That's 'cause he didn't keep his eyes on Me.

Carl: _NO!_ I mean the time he jumped out of the boat and swam to shore to greet You.

Jesus: And he didn't care about getting drenched one bit.

Carl: Was Peter kind of like Alexander here?

Jesus: Alexander doesn't fish for a living.

Carl: I mean in _other ways_.

Jesus: I made each of you different... just like everyone else.

Alexander: Can we stop talking and start praying?

Carl: Don't you talk when you pray?

Alexander: Give it a rest, would yah!?

Carl: But we can't just pray all the time!

Alexander: You can't do _anything_ without prayer!

Carl: But you still have to think!

Alexander: No, just pray and God will lead you!

Carl: But you still have to use your brain!

Alexander: You use your brain too much. Just pray and obey!

Carl: God gave me my brain! I need to use it!

Alexander: Use it, don't abuse it! Just pray.

Carl: But we still have to _think!_

Alexander: Then _think_ about praying and do it!

Jesus: Fellas.

Carl: Fine, okay, I understand what he means.

Alexander: Good, I've said it so clearly. It's about _time_ you listen!

Carl: He's awfully feisty.

Jesus: I made him that way.

Carl: Why?

Jesus: The devil can't lead him.

Carl: Can anyone be his leader?

Jesus: I AM.

Alexander: I'll follow Jesus _anywhere_.

Carl: Back on topic...

Alexander: There he goes again.

Carl: Let's just pray and get this over with. I don't care if I turn into a _giraffe!_ All this waiting has me in suspense.

Alexander: Me too! _More fire Lord!_

Jesus: Carl, patience. Alexander, calm down, I AM not burning the earth until I get you and the rest of my Church outa' here.

Alexander: I mean the _fire_ of Your Spirit.

Jesus: Yes. My fire won't hurt my Church... but the evil fungi... they won't survive the coming global grass fire.

Carl: How do You plan to do all that?

Alexander: Does he always ask so many questions?

Carl: Inquiring minds want to know.

Jesus: Weren't you going on about how impatient you were about praying?

Carl: Oh, yeah, that. Alex, hurry-up, before we start talking about something else.

Alexander: "Alex"...I kind of like that nickname.

Carl: Just hurry up, would you!

Alexander: Oh, right. [puts his hand on Carl's shoulder, closes eyes, looks up]

Carl: [bows head]

Jesus: [smiles and looks at both]

Alexander: [looks at Jesus] Give him Your Spirit like I have Him.

Jesus: Okay. Done.

Alexander: [takes hand down]

Carl: That's it!?

Alexander: What were you expecting?

Carl: Well, I do feel a little warm and calm, but I've had that in church before. I thought I was going to melt into a puddle of slime or something and roll around in the aisles.

Alexander: How could slime roll?

Carl: You know what I mean.

Alexander: No, I don't.

Jesus: Do you feel any different?

Carl: I feel... really calm... and... kinda' happy.

Jesus: That's my peace.

Carl: What just happened?

Alexander: Oooo! He's got the Holy Ghost! Shekinah!

Jesus: My Holy Ghost.

Carl: Shekinah is a kind of "glory".

Alexander: _"Glowraaah!" Halelooooooyah!_

Jesus: Isn't he scaring you?

Carl: Not really, I'm kinda' getting used to him.

Jesus: It's because you prayed together.

Alexander: _More fire!_

Jesus:...in a few years, Alexander. That's part of what I came for. How I wish it were already kindled.

Alexander: Let Your fire be kindled in me!

Jesus: Truly.

Carl: I'm all of a sudden curious about this whole "tongues" thing. How does that work?

Alexander: You just gotta' do it!

Jesus: Alexander, don't confuse him. He needs details.

Alexander: Oh, yeah. He's one of _those_ people.

Jesus: One of _my_ people.

Carl: What's with all that _tongues_ stuff, anyways?

Jesus: First, "tongues and languages" aren't the main thing. I AM the main thing.

Carl: Okay, I'm just curious, though. Do You, like, control my talking or... how does all that work?

Jesus: It's like a dance. You actively follow my lead.

Carl: Okay, but we aren't supposed to dance as Christians.

Jesus: David danced with Me.

Carl: That sounds wrong.

Alexander: Your mind's in the wrong place man! You just gotta' think _"Holy Ghost!"_

Carl: Do I have to start acting like him?

Jesus: Nope. And he doesn't have to start acting like you. But, Alexander, please, do calm down a little. I know you're excited, but you don't want to scare people who don't see things the same way you do.

Carl: What's with this whole "tongues" thing? I want to know.

Jesus: That's for private time between just us.

Carl: Can I do it in church.

Jesus: As long as you're decent, others understand, and you aren't making a show of Me. It's supposed to be either between us or else a language others can understand so you and your friends can grow closer to Me—together.

Carl: Okay, so it really isn't that big of a deal either way.

Jesus: I AM the Way. Language is a tool.

Alexander: He's starting to make more sense.

Carl: And Alex seems more calm.

Alexander: I thought I was more excited.

Jesus: Alexander isn't scaring you as much.

Carl: I thought he was the one who changed.

Jesus: I AM the one who changes both of you.

Carl: Why are we getting along better? Is it because I've been "Drenched" in Your Holy Spirit?

Alexander: Drenched. Dunked. Submerged. Lord, pour it on me! More!

Jesus: Maybe. The key is that you are talking, having fellowship, and mostly, you are talking with _Me—together_.

Carl: Now _that_ makes sense.

Alexander: It's about time! Praise Jesus!

Jesus: I AM fine with that.

Carl: I feel like I need a word of caution. Like, I need some kind of guidebook on dealing with my new friend here.

Jesus: Carl likes terminology, so, Alexander, remember the term I gave you?

Alexander: _Compulsion!_

Carl: He _does_ know big words!

Jesus: I teach him.

Alexander: He tied me to the floor and forced it down!

Jesus: You were slain in my Spirit.

Alexander: Is that what it was?

Carl: I don't have to go through all that, do I?

Jesus: Not if you don't want Me to. I'm a gentleman. But you wanted some terminology to "guide" you.

Carl: Yeah. I just don't want to get wrapped-up in all this "ooga-booga" stuff.

Jesus: Compulsion.

Carl: Eh?

Jesus: Don't be compulsive.

Carl: Obsessive-compulsive?

Jesus: That neither.

Carl: So, don't feel like I have to do this crazy stuff?

Jesus: And don't let Alexander act that way either... at least not too much.

Carl: What do I do if he starts in with it all?

Jesus: First thing: Don't freak-out. Don't loose your cool just because you don't like him loosing his cool.

Alexander: Why are you guys talking about me like I'm crazy?

Carl: [stands there with his mouth open, incredulous]

Jesus: Have faith in Me, Alexander. It makes sense to Carl.

Alexander: I'm glad it makes sense to _somebody_.

Jesus: You both make sense to Me.

Carl: So, don't let Alex, here, be compulsive?

Alexander: I really like that nickname.

Jesus: But don't _you_ be compulsive either.

Carl: What?

Jesus: Don't act like everything and all your friends _always have to always, always, always_ be calm and use big words. I made people different. I didn't make you special so you could invalidate everyone else by using yourself as the standard for all others.

Carl: My words aren't all that big.

Jesus: I don't seem all that big to myself, but from your perspective I AM a different story.

Alexander: Yeah. Carl's words are big... kinda' like how Jesus is infinite.

Jesus: You two are going to make great friends.

Carl: Your creative mind is infinite. [to Alexander]

Jesus: Not as infinite as my creative mind. And neither are Carl's words as infinite as my Word.

Alexander: Had me fooled.

Jesus: I know bigger words than Carl. Trust me.

Carl: That reminds me. Didn't Alex have a "word" or something?

Alexander: He won't let me tell it now.

Carl: Huh? It works like that?

Jesus: Alexander is just trying to obey Me. When I put something in his heart to tell people, it's an idea, or a _"word",_ for the moment... however long the moment lasts.

Carl: So, why did it seem so important to him, but now he says You won't let him tell it?

Jesus: Maybe I just put the message in his heart so he would come over and talk to you.

Alexander: But I thought it was super important that I tell it.

Jesus: Remember, I AM the one who put that message in Alexander's heart. When I lead you by my Spirit to do something, you may understand a small piece, but I AM the Author. I understand more about my message than the messenger I give it through.

Carl: What's with all that, anyhow?

Jesus: We'll get into that another time.

#  **Scene 6: Soul Food**

Alexander: Carl.

Carl: Alex.

Alexander: Why are you beating your head against your desk?

Carl: Well, I'm _trying_ to write a paper.

Alexander: Is your desk in the way?

Carl: It's about whether man is a trichotomy or a dichotomy.

Alexander: Tri _what_ on me?

Carl: No, tri- means "three".

Alexander: And di- means "dead?"

Carl: No, di- means "two".

Alexander: Who'd 'a guessed that?

Carl: I wouldn't have. I didn't even come up with those terms.

Alexander: Who did?

Carl: I don't know, but he's probably dead.

Alexander: I thought you said di- didn't mean "dead!"

Carl: It doesn't, it's just that the debate is so old, and these words are so _Greek_ , that the first guy to use these words probably lived centuries ago.

Alexander: Well, it's all Greek to me.

Carl: I'll put it this way... The question is: Does a human have three parts or two parts?

Alexander: I have _many_ more parts than just two or three!

Carl: It's not just about your physical body.

Alexander: Your mind also?

Carl: That's a whole other discussion.

Alexander: You mean a discussion with such confusing words doesn't even have a _mind?_

Carl: Kind of...

Alexander: This is way over my head.

Carl: You can see why I was beating my head against my desk.

Jesus: Hey, kids.

Alexander: Lord!

Carl: Why did He call us 'kids?'

Jesus: Children and my Kingdom.

Alexander: Carl is having a moment of "mental constipation"... he _just can't_ quite get all his thoughts out.

Carl: Are the spirit and soul the same?

Alexander: Where did _that_ come from?

Jesus: They came from Me. I AM the one who created them.

Carl: Are we "spirit-soul-body" with three parts or are we just "soul-body" with two?

Jesus: You are asking if your soul and spirit are the same thing.

Alexander: Why does he care about that?

Carl: I don't care about it, my professors do. And I'm paying them _a lot of money_.

Alexander: I have a solution to that...

Jesus: So do I.

Carl: Good, because I'm beating my head against my desk.

Alexander: Perhaps by killing some brain cells you'd do yourself a favor.

Jesus: Or I could just heal the neural pathways and help him connect the dots.

Alexander-Carl: [look at each other]

Jesus: Let Me ask you, why would you think your soul and your spirit might be the same?

Carl: My professor says "soul" and "spirit" are used interchangeably.

Jesus: Used where interchangeably?

Carl: In Scripture.

Jesus: What's another term for a "demon" in the New Testament?

Carl: The New Testament often refers to demons as "unclean spirits".

Jesus: Are they ever called "unclean souls?"

Carl: No.

Jesus: Then "soul" and "spirit" aren't used interchangeably.

Carl: It can't be that simple.

Alexander: It often is.

Jesus: There is more to the question, though.

Carl: What is a soul, then? And what is a spirit?

Alexander: I know who the Spirit is!

Carl: You think you know who the Spirit is.

Jesus: My Spirit knows who _both_ of you are.

Carl: This paper is due tomorrow, so could we get back on topic?

Alexander: Yeah, I want to go eat.

Jesus: I _love_ banquets.

Carl: _Please!_

Jesus: Has any part of my Word said, "...a _soul_ of fear," or, "...they were all filled with the _Soul_ together?" or, "Now receive my Holy _Soul_?"

Carl: No. It almost sounds like You are talking about dead people when You say stuff like that.

Jesus: It seems that you already have this figured out. What's the confusion?

Carl: I never thought about it like that. Is this a Greek thing? I mean, maybe in the New Testament the words meant one thing, but to us today "soul" and "spirit" mean the same thing.

Jesus: What do sailors often call the people on their ships?

Carl: I never sailed.

Alexander: They call them "souls". "Cap'n! Steer clear 'o da reef. Dare be two hundred souls on board".

Carl: Yeah, I guess sailors do call people "souls".

Jesus: Do sailors ever call them "spirits".

Carl: No. If a sailor ever talked about a _spirit_ it would be spooky "sailor" superstition... something about a "ship haunted by an evil spirit" or an "evil island with a dark spirit on the wind" or something.

Alexander: People don't change much over the years. We still talk the same about spirits and souls. So, why learn Greek?

Carl: Because almost a third of the Bible is written in Greek!

Alexander: No it isn't. I got a Bible right here and it's all English!

Carl: That's because seminary students like me translated it for you. Be grateful and don't pick on my Greek!

Alexander: I won't pick on your Greek as long as we can go eat. Speak of Greek, how's about the Olive Dragon?

Carl: That's not Greek!

Alexander: It's Greek to me.

Jesus: It isn't Greek. Believe Me—still good though.

Carl: How do You know what Greek food tastes like?

Alexander: He's been there. He's two-thousand years old.

Jesus: My _body_ is two-thousand years old. But my Spirit is way older than that. He used Greek to create confusion at the tower of Babble.

Carl: Greek is still creating confusion today.

Alexander: Confusion about what ethnic food actually tastes like?

Jesus:... and you don't want to know about the confusion that led to the discovery of feta cheese.

Alexander: You guys are making me hungrier!

Jesus: That's your _body_ talking.

Alexander: It's my _mouth_ talking.

Carl: And I can hear your _stomach_ talking. Your body must love to eat Greek.

Alexander: Your _mind_ must love to _read_ Greek.

Carl: Is my mind part of my _spirit_ or my _soul?_

Jesus: Maybe both, maybe your _body_ too.

Carl: My mind part of my _body!?_

Jesus: Alexander's stomach is distracting his mind... and if you take the wrong medication... that can do strange things to your thought processes.

Carl: Is that what happened to Alex?

Alexander: You're the one who needs a padded desk.

Jesus: I always liked eating on a padded floor.

Alexander: _I'm starving!_

Carl: But which one is the _mind_ a part of then? Body or soul or what?

Jesus: I didn't put it in my written Word for a reason.

Carl: What's Your reason?

Alexander: Because it _doesn't matter or He would have told you! I want to eat!_

Jesus: Just think about "soul and spirit" for now.

Carl: Okay, so, let me piece all this together... "spirit" means "demon" if it's an "unclean spirit"... but a soul is part of a sailor?...

Alexander: A disembodied spirit is often a reference to an angelic being, such as a demon or angel, or God's Holy Spirit, whereas, in relation to a human, it characterizes the emotional energy in and around our physical bodies. The _soul_ refers to the affectionate-religious-eternal aspect of a human.

Carl: Um. Lord. Do I have the gift of interpreting tongues or did he actually understand all of the stuff he just said?

Jesus: I inspired him.

Alexander: I'm allowed to use big words, I just don't like to do it _all the time_... like some people.

Carl: So, I know that the Bible makes reference to demons as "unclean spirits". That makes sense. And I know that the word "soul" only refers to something about our "eternal nature" as humans. But when does Scripture ever teach that a human "spirit" refers to emotions?

Jesus: I never taught it. I assumed it.

Carl: Why would You "assume" something in Your Word?

Jesus: Because the people of that day already had this figured out.

Alexander: Yeah, we in the West are often afraid of our emotions, so we don't like to talk about "spiritual" things as much as the Bible and other cultures do... that's why we often get them confused.

Carl: He's starting to sound more intelligent.

Jesus: That's because he's talking about "spiritual" things.

Carl: We have been talking about "spiritual" things for the last few days.

Jesus: No, we have been talking about "religious" things. "Spirit" is a reference to emotions and the invisible realm of angels, demons, and my Holy Spirit.

Carl: Why is Alex so comfortable talking about all this?

Alexander: I wasn't always.

Jesus: In the beginning he'd change his mind about every other day. But he never stopped digging deeper into the issue.

Alexander: I don't like it when people just say, "That's spooky-sounding 'silly' stuff," and then run away form the discussion. I want to know Jesus more. Pat answers about "spirit" stuff won't help my _heart_ grow closer to Him.

Carl: So, Alex knows about this stuff?

Jesus: He's still figuring out a lot, that's why he would like your academic passion and diligence to help him. _He's_ not afraid and you're not academically lazy. Why do you think I made the two of you friends?

Carl: I still want a Scriptural example of how the word "spirit" can refer to human emotions.

Alexander: "... not a spirit of _fear_ and _timidity_ , but of _power, love, and sound-mind"_. Those all describe emotions. Just do a concordance search on "spirit" and you'll find other things that basically describe human emotions... either that or references to God's Spirit or else "unclean spirits."

Carl: He really knows the Word on this.

Jesus: And the Word knows both of you.

Carl: Snap! That's why we lay hands on each other for Drenching of His Holy Spirit!

Jesus: Go on...

Carl: Because our spirit is an emotional-type of thing in our bodies.

Alexander: It's why Jesus felt "energy" go out of Him when the lady touched Him and was healed.

Carl: Now that makes me wonder what Drenching in Your Holy Spirit is really all about.

Alexander: Confidence.

Jesus: That's part of it. But Alexander, don't get too carried away in answering these types of questions. You've read a lot of Bible on this, but you need to invite Carl to be part of your discovery about my Word before you get too opinionated.

Carl: I'm all for that.

Alexander: But he doesn't live it every day, in and out, like I do.

Jesus: Not yet.

Alexander: What's he waiting for?

Jesus: He's waiting for you to be yourself. You are a _do_ er and he's an intellectual. It's enough for you to live and do, but Carl has a lot of detailed questions. Let him ask those and don't accuse him of making everything too complicated.

Carl: Then we will finally discover some of the deeper things Jesus has for us.

Alexander: If it means more of the Lord, I'm all for it!

Carl: Me too!

Jesus: Us Three!

Carl: Was that a reference to the Trinity?

Alexander: No, there are three of us here!

Carl: Let Him speak!

Jesus: _Together_.

Carl: Huh?

Jesus: The Drenching that comes from my Holy Spirit is something that my people do _together_. It's like water baptism or my Supper.

Carl: _That's_ why it's through _laying on of hands!_

Jesus: Kind of.

Carl: But what about that time in Acts 2 when they didn't lay hands on each other and it still happened?

Jesus: My people were _together_.

Alexander: But I pray to You in private all the time with that crazy-fun prayer language thing.

Jesus: Drenching in my Spirit typically happens when Christians are together, but you always keep it with you for our friendship.

Carl: What does it _do_ though?

Jesus: Alexander was on to something.

Alexander: Confidence?

Jesus: That's a big part of it.

Carl: What does _confidence_ have to do with "spiritual" things?

Alexander: Confidence is an emotion.

Carl: Okay. That kind of makes sense.

Jesus: I heal people's bodies _and_ their emotions.

Alexander: Lack of confidence is an emotional weakness. Because of our brokenness in sin, we often think we are emotionally "unstable" or "broken", but more often than not, it's just a problem of our emotions being "smaller" or "weaker" than our situations in life.

Carl: Okay, someone cuts me off on the highway... I can't prevent them from doing it... the situation is "bigger" than I am... so...

Alexander: You get angry and blame your anger on that other guy.

Jesus: When I drench your spirit in my Spirit, my own Spirit increases in your life and your spirit is healed and strengthened. That's why Alexander says that Drenching in my Spirit can lead to your confidence.

Carl: So, Drenching in Your Holy Spirit is kind of like a "healing?"

Jesus: That too, but it's more of a "drenching" that gives you not just "more" love, but _"Intense"_ love.

Alexander: [arms out, slightly raised, looking up] Drench me! More, Lord. More! Selah!

Carl: So, are You saying that _he_ doesn't need a psycho therapist?

Alexander: _You_ will _always_ need a psychotherapist!

Jesus: If a counselor is helping you, great. You always need each other—it's called "fellowship", and no one is prefect just because my Spirit Drenches you. But it's hard to heal a cadaver.

Alexander: There's so much preaching in the flesh these days.

Carl: Ummm, bring it in guys, I'm not tracking.

Jesus: Many preachers try to say things that make people feel "surprise-guilt" and they think it is "conviction" of my Sprit when it isn't. Others try to make people feel "surprise-non-guilt" and think it is "comfort" of my Sprit. Truth told, I follow every one of those people home and it doesn't last. They have to hear those kinds of "surprises" again to get back to their emotional state they had when they were listening to the sermon. They are still unstable. And in those congregational groups, so-called "godly preaching" is often reduced to an exercise of coming up with ever more clever "emotion-surprise-shocking" statements. Brokenness and weakness need healing and strengthening... not just jabbing and tickling.

Carl: What's the solution?

Alexander: Now he's talkin'. No more of this detail stuff. I'm all about bottom lines and getting to the point.

Carl: That's great, but don't interrupt, then.

Jesus: That which is borne of the flesh is flesh. That which is borne of my Spirit is spirit. And the same is true of anyone borne of my Spirit.

Carl: Are You saying I don't have Your Holy Spirit until Alex laid hands on me to pray for Drenching of Your Holy Spirit?

Jesus: No. When you accepted Me into your heart, it was my Spirit that took up residence in your _heart_ —all those things relating to emotions. My Spirit came in like "pilot flame" brought by your salvation and it had to be there before Alexander laying hands on you could result in "Drenching" in my same Spirit.

Carl: So I have always been Your Spirit's temple since I believed in Your work on the Cross?

Jesus: You bet. With my drenching, either done through Alexander's hands or doing it myself like I did in Acts 2, now you are a temple, not just of my Sprit, but of other things... like a "temple" of emotional healing, physical healing... Through Alex, I let the Lion out of His cage in your life.

Alexander: Like ripping the Temple curtain open!

Jesus: You might see it that way, but don't get too technical with that stuff. I wouldn't base any theology off of an illustration. The temple curtain was torn because my Sacrifice gave you access to my Father—it wasn't meant merely to serve as an illustration.

Carl: So, I still need to talk with Christian friends and maybe see a counselor after Drenching of Your Holy Spirit?

Alexander: You may always need a counselor.

Jesus: My Holy Spirit brings you _Life_. He's a Wonderful Counselor, but you still need knowledgeable people in your life. I created you as a race of fellowship, not a breed of hermits.

Carl: So, that "super Christian" attainment that I always used to think about as a kid... that actually just involved Drenching of Your Spirit?

Jesus: You need all of Me to have all of Me. You still won't be perfect until the next Life, but you don't need to be—if you have all of Me.

Carl: And You aren't saying I wasn't Your temple as a Christian before that?

Jesus: I never spoke one word to that effect.

Alexander: I'm beginning to understand this guy's mind. He's just got a lot of questions.

Jesus: I AM the answer. So questions aren't bad.

Alexander: I have a question.

Jesus: Yes.

Alexander: Good.

Carl: Huh?

Alexander: _"Can we eat?"_ [matter-of-factly to Carl]

Carl: Oh... Do you want fake Greek or fake Mexican?

Alexander: We could make a run for the border.

Carl: No, I don't want to be a fake _citizen_.

Jesus: Your citizenships are genuine. I assure you.

#  **Scene 7: Relationship Works**

Alexander: I've been wondering something.

Jesus: Ask.

Alexander: What do You do with people who say they love You, but live in constant sin and aren't even sorry about it?

Jesus: Not as much as I would like to.

Alexander: Doesn't it make You angry?

Jesus: I have big plans for them.

Alexander: What's their problem?

Jesus: More importantly, what's their solution?

Alexander: Lay hands on them for prayer?

Jesus: Gifts are gifts. If they won't accept my commands they won't accept anything else from Me.

Alexander: So, what is the solution?

Jesus: My Word.

Alexander: I read Your commands in the Bible, but obeying them is difficult for everyone.

Jesus: That's because you are still in your body.

Alexander: What's my physical body got to do with it?

Jesus: Your body is where sin exists. That's why, after Adam ate fruit from the tree I told him not to eat from, I set things up on the earth so people would die. When your body dies, as a Christian, you keep living eternally, though you are free from the sin in your physical body.

Alexander: So, You are saying death is good?

Jesus: Death is a gift... given the circumstances.

Alexander: Some gift! [sarcasm]

Jesus: Gifts are gifts. You either accept them or you don't.

Alexander: I thought sin was a "spiritual" problem. Now You're telling me it's in my body.

Jesus: Sin is a "religious" problem. But in terms of "body-spirit-soul" it is a religious problem that lives in your _body_. Sin does not have its root in your spirit or your soul.

Alexander: How so?

Jesus: The fruit was "physical". Adam ate it with his body, not his spirit. It wouldn't make sense if his body didn't have the "sin" problem and his spirit did.

Alexander: Put that way it sounds a little less crazy.

Jesus: Your mind is being renewed to think like mine. Keep doing that and you will understand Me more with each day.

Alexander: How do I renew my mind?

Jesus: Every question you have asked Me here is clearly explained in my Word.

Alexander: What about my first question?

Jesus: What do I do with people who say they love Me, but live in constant sin and aren't even sorry about it?

Alexander: Yes.

Jesus: And I told you.

Alexander: You do not do as much with them as You would like to.

Jesus: Isn't that obvious from reading my Word?

Alexander: But Your Word seems so complicated, especially when some people talk about it. I prefer to just grow in Your Spirit.

Jesus: My Word only seems complicated to you because your growth _has been primarily_ in my Spirit. The Bible doesn't seem complicated to people who know it well.

Alexander: So, the better I know Your Word, the better I will understand You?

Jesus: I AM the Word.

Alexander: You said every question I asked is answered in Your Word. So, where in Your Word does it say that?

Jesus: Do you know about Joshua?

Alexander: Isn't he the guy who parted the Red Sea?

Jesus: No. I AM the one who parted the Red Sea and I used Moses to do it, but Joshua was there.

Alexander: Did Joshua have a brother named Jericho?

Jesus: No, Jericho was the name of the city he marched around with Israel.

Alexander: Oh, that's right... and the music was so terrible that the walls fell down! Joshua was obviously _not_ the best music director.

Jesus: There was a little more to it than that. But, the Philistines weren't too pleased with all that racket. Where do you think the idea of a sound ordinance first came from?

Alexander: I used to have these neighbors whose music was so loud I thought my own walls were going to fall down.

Jesus: Why do you think I had them move away?

Alexander: Because I'm not a Philistine?

Jesus: Well, something like that.

Alexander: Who are the Philistines, anyways?

Jesus: They are the people who lived in Jericho.

Alexander: This is really interesting.

Jesus: It's great spending time with the Word, isn't it?

Alexander: Did Joshua study the Word?

Jesus: I told him to.

Alexander: How did that work out for him?

Jesus: Oh, he was a big success! He did what everyone else said was impossible.

Alexander: Nothing's impossible with You.

Jesus: If you know my Word.

Alexander: So what was the secret to Joshua's success?

Jesus: My Word.

Alexander: He just "spoke the word" and stuff happened. Like at Jericho?

Jesus: Not exactly. It was more about the fact that he _knew_ my Word.

Alexander: You mean he knew _You?_

Jesus: Do you know what I told him?

Alexander: To have the Israelites sing so the walls would shatter?

Jesus: I told him to read my Word day and night. "Never let it out of your mouth," I said. He recited it constantly.

Alexander: That seems difficult.

Jesus: Joshua didn't think so.

Alexander: Yeah, but he was with Moses. That's got to give him a boost, You know.

Jesus: You have a, "boost" that Joshua didn't. You have the rest of my Word. Joshua only had the first five books.

Alexander: What happened to the rest?

Jesus: They hadn't been written yet.

Alexander: Who wrote them?

Jesus: Joshua started to.

Alexander: What did he write? About his success?

Jesus: Eventually, but the first things he wrote were the instructions I gave him.

Alexander: To sing _really terribly?_

Jesus: You don't need to instruct people to do that.

Alexander: So, the people singing so terribly at church are obeying You without knowing it?

Jesus: The more they sing together, the more the walls will fall down.

Alexander: You don't care whether it sounds terrible?

Jesus: I never said to make it beautiful, just joyful. You should read about it.

Alexander: Where do I start?

Jesus: Start with the instructions I gave Joshua.

Alexander: Which were?

Jesus: Meditate on my Word constantly, then, after that, obedience will be natural. Then, when you obey everything I've written in it, you will have enormous prosperity. But there's no need to get sad about prosperity, because my prosperity leads to success.

Alexander: Why would prosperity make a person sad?

Jesus: Joshua was a leader and an accomplisher. Prosperity all by itself depressed him.

Alexander: Why?

Jesus: Because he didn't want "mere prosperity!"...to have happiness and abundance just for itself!? No, that wasn't Joshua.

Alexander: What did he want?

Jesus: Success.

Alexander: What is success?

Jesus: Ask Me a question.

Alexander: What kind of question?

Jesus: See, you succeeded. That is "success".

Alexander: Huh?

Jesus: Success merely means "having a goal and reaching it".

Alexander: I thought "success" meant having a better car than my neighbors.

Jesus: You mean having a bigger car _payment_ than your neighbors.

Alexander: I _need_ my car.

Jesus: And I provide your need.

Alexander: So, I shouldn't make car payments?

Jesus: You can make car payments as long as I provide you with the money, but don't make the payments bigger just because your neighbor's car payments are bigger.

Alexander: What if I want better stuff though?

Jesus: Why would you want better things?

Alexander: I don't know, stuff is nice. Is that wrong?

Jesus: "Wrong" isn't the issue. Is it gratifying? Joshua didn't want prosperity without success.

Alexander: That gets me to thinking. A lot of people just pursue prosperity as an ends in itself.

Jesus: And they live very unhappy lives.

Alexander: But some of them don't have any debt.

Jesus: Having your debt paid is _part of_ what I came to do, but I didn't stop there. I want you to have _Life_ , I want you to have it abundantly, I want you to have success.

Alexander: How does that work?

Jesus: Many people let Me pay their debt. Then we never get to do much together after that.

Alexander: That answers my first question!

Jesus: Spending time with the Word answers a lot of questions.

Alexander: When people accept Your forgiveness, but live in constant sin, without even feeling bad about it, that's wrong!

Jesus: Wrong for who?

Alexander: Wrong against You!

Jesus: True. But they hurt themselves most of all, even in this lifetime.

Alexander: Why would they live in sin if it mostly hurts themselves?

Jesus: They don't want _Life_ , only forgiveness.

Alexander: But forgiveness is important.

Jesus: And I want you to forgive each other.

Alexander: It's hard enough to forgive and be forgiven. You want us to go beyond that?

Jesus: If you stop at my forgiveness it's hard to forgive others. Just like stopping at prosperity. Once the debt is paid, if you don't find success after that, you tend to rack up more and more debt all over again. Then getting out of debt seems difficult.

Alexander: By "debt" do You mean "sin" or "owing money to the bank?"

Jesus: All of the above.

Alexander: So, people who live in constant sin and aren't sorry about it—no matter how much they say they love You—are really just sad inside.

Jesus: They only want to survive, not _Thrive_.

Alexander: How do we _Thrive?_

Jesus: I AM the Light and _Life_. If you want to understand the darkness without overcoming it, my Word will have no answer for you.

Alexander: So, I may never understand why people don't love Your _Life_ and only want to have their "bills" paid.

Jesus: They don't understand you either.

Alexander: How does that work?

Jesus: Do you like cheeseburgers?

Alexander: They are so good! Why wouldn't I?

Jesus: Is there any reason or logic in "liking" something?

Alexander: You know, Data from Star Trek never understood "liking" stuff.

Jesus: I didn't invent Star Trek. Gene Rodenberry came up with it on his own.

Alexander: Data never understood emotions. It's because he wasn't human.

Jesus: Emotions are of the "spiritual realm". You don't "understand" emotions—you "have" them.

Alexander: So, people who try to parse every little detail and pull-out their charts and graphs about which things You will and will not forgive and about what the point is where someone has so much sin that they aren't a Christian...

Jesus: Does the ocean have a boundary?

Alexander: Well, the "coastline" is a boundary, I suppose.

Jesus: But where is that line?

Alexander: Where the water meets the shore.

Jesus: But that line changes with each wave. Ever take a walk on a beach?

Alexander: Yes. I love sunsets, classical music, flowers, chocolates, and long walks on the beach.

Jesus: You'd better love those things or you will never have any children.

Alexander: But what's the beach got to do with the line between sin and holiness?

Jesus: The ocean is like my Holiness. It is so big that even its boundary is thick. There is a point where you are clearly in the ocean or clearly on land, but if you try to define the difference too much, you will think that the exact boundary changes with every wave that breaks on the beach and comes and goes with the tide.

Alexander: Are You saying that Your commands change?

Jesus: Never, just like a coastline doesn't change. But my Holiness is so large and vast that the "boundary line" is literally bigger than you are. You may think the sand is a good place to build a house while the tide is out, but even at low tide, the beach is still part of the thick boundary between land and sea.

Alexander: Okay, I understand. The tide goes in and out, waves break from a few feet to several yards, and I'm only six feet tall...

Jesus: Five-foot eleven.

Alexander: Same thing!

Jesus: Now you get it.

Alexander: Huh?

Jesus: You can measure either in inches or in feet.

Alexander: So, maybe You don't want us measuring the line of sin and Holiness in terms of millimeters, but in terms of yards. Is that it?

Jesus: If someone tries to put a house or boat as close to the coastline as they can, that person is confused. They really don't understand houses, boats, land, sea, or coastlines.

Alexander: Sail a boat too close to the cost and it may crash or run aground. A house on the beach could get washed-over and destroyed.

Jesus: There's plenty of ocean and plenty of land. You don't need to press your luck with the coastline. People who are interested in micro-differences between my Holiness and their sin don't even know what they want out of Life.

Alexander: So, we should assume that the line is as far from sin as possible?

Jesus: No, you are still thinking in terms of where the exact line is.

Alexander: My Sunday school teacher once told us that, even though You didn't forbid us to drink alcohol, it's better to be more conservative.

Jesus: Are my commands perfect?

Alexander: Yes.

Jesus: Can you improve on perfection?

Alexander: No.

Jesus: If you are "more conservative" than perfection, aren't you departing from my perfect Word?

Alexander: I suppose, but... what a leader does conservatively the masses will do liberally.

Jesus: You mean if a leader tries to improve on my commands just a little that the masses will try to improve on my commands a whole bunch and get legalistic and make other rules I never gave?

Alexander: I was thinking that if the leader drinks a little alcohol that the people will drink a lot.

Jesus: Do I hold people responsible for their own choices or do I hold their pastor responsible for _their_ choices?

Alexander: You hold the people responsible, but the pastor is a leader. He has extra responsibility. People follow his example.

Jesus: That's why he has _extra_ responsibility not to draw the "line" where I didn't. Do not stray to the right or to the left, but follow my commands as I gave them. Any more than that is evil and has no power against sinful desires. I don't need an editor.

Alexander: But alcoholism is a problem for many Christians.

Jesus: Redrawing, over-specifying, or otherwise "improving" my perfect lines won't help them. Alcohol is only enticing to people who haven't tasted my Holiness... or who don't want to.

Alexander: Maybe I haven't reached the high and lofty spiritual attainment where sin seems boring, but I can see why alcohol could pull people away from You.

Jesus: It isn't "high and lofty attainment", it's a matter of tasting and seeing that I AM Good. But a pastor who constantly reminds his people not to drink alcohol isn't reminding them enough about his Fascination with my Holiness. And you know what that means?

Alexander: What?

Jesus: He himself probably isn't fascinated by my Holiness.

Alexander: So, then, he's a bad pastor?

Jesus: Not necessarily. I'd like to think of him as a _growing_ pastor. I invite him to fall in love with my Holiness more and more. That will give him "contagious strength". He'll spread my _Lifestyle_ without trying so much.

Alexander: By "Holiness" You mean that we should strive to live sinless lives?

Jesus: No, I mean that I AM sinless. Become fascinated with my own perfection and beauty, not with trying to attain it yourself, because you can't attain perfection in your current body. I didn't call you to be "fully" perfect in a sinful body. I called you to obey Me. To do that, you must love my Holiness, then my commands will become a natural desire. That is "Fascination with Holiness".

Alexander: But it still bothers me that You left "gray areas" in the Bible. I want clarity on those.

Jesus: My Bible is eternal-all-truth for every person. I leave some lines gray because of individual callings I place on each person's life. You need to know my Bible for what it says. My Spirit knows you in your _daily_ time with Me. Don't bring clarity in the gray areas for others. You are not my Holy Spirit.

Alexander: So, how do we know all of this stuff for sure?

Jesus: Fall in love with my Holiness and you will recognize it. Don't buy into the delusion that you can follow guidelines apart from a relationship with my Spirit. Don't try to make yourself independent of Me. I love you and I AM Powerful to lead you.

Alexander: I am a little concerned that people may get carried away in trying to follow Your leading. Isn't it good to clarify some stuff even though it isn't in Your Word?

Jesus: You must be comfortable with my Spirit having full reign in your life, otherwise you aren't limiting _Him_ , you are limiting _yourself_ from the _Life_ He leads you into. If I didn't give a written Word on it, don't you forbid it, even if it makes you nervous.

Alexander: Free reign in my life... Yeah, I don't just want to _walk_ with You. I want to _run_ with You!

Jesus: If you try to keep a leash on Me you're only tying _yourself_ down. The Lion of Judah must have free reign in _your_ life if you want to run with Me in _my_ Life.

Alexander: How do I know what to allow?

Jesus:...what to allow Me or what to allow yourself?

Alexander: I get it. So, Bible for whatever Bible addresses and Your Spirit is unleashed for daily _Living and Thriving_. I need to think more about Your Grace.

Jesus: Not just my Grace, but my Justice, my Mercy... you must think about all of it to be transformed by any of it. Think about my _Holiness_.

Alexander: So it isn't about charts and graphs of God's "boundaries" of forgiveness and so forth. We need to make You our _Lord_.

Jesus: I AM already your Lord. I AM everyone's Lord.

Alexander: But I _call You_ , "Lord."

Jesus: Many people call Me, "Lord," but many of them don't know Me.

Alexander: But, Lord, aren't You the Lord?

Jesus: Yes, but calling Me "Lord" isn't what makes the difference. You might use the word "King" because a Lord is merely someone you obey. A King is someone you obey, but also love deeply and personally.

Alexander: Calling You, "Lord" is okay, but the difference is that You are also my "King". That word includes obedience and love together... I get it.

Jesus: Yeah. When you love someone, you don't try to over-explain that love.

Alexander: How so?

Jesus: If you tried to logically explain the reason behind why someone would want to eat a cheeseburger with you, do you think they would want to talk to you for very long?

Alexander: They would probably call me a "geek" who has no friends.

Jesus: You were the one who mentioned Star Trek.

Alexander: That was because I thought of Data.

Jesus: Geek alert.

Alexander: Red Alert! I don't have to explain why I like Star Trek.

Jesus: I wouldn't understand if you did.

Alexander: I like it because I like it.

Jesus: To each his own. But do you know what's especially strange about this?

Alexander: What?

Jesus: The author of this script obviously knows enough about Star Trek that he can have you talking about it, but has written my lines so it looks like God isn't a Treker-fan?

Alexander: Maybe that's because he doesn't want God to look like a geek.

Jesus: The author of this script couldn't make Me look like a geek if he tried.

Alexander: He's a very creative author though. I really have to hand it to him.

Jesus: But I'd just take all the credit. Who do you think created Creativity, anyways?

Alexander: Okay. You win.

Jesus: I already won. I finished first place, two thousand years ago.

Alexander: I want to talk about Joshua.

Jesus: He won three thousand years ago.

Alexander: Why did he win?

Jesus: Because he obeyed Me.

Alexander: You gave him favor because he obeyed what You commanded.

Jesus: No. He gave _himself_ favor because he obeyed what I commanded.

Alexander: How does _that_ work?

Jesus: My commands make sense—and not just cents, but dollars.

Alexander: I was always told that when we obey You, You show us favor.

Jesus: I had favor on you when I gave you my commands, the secrets to prosperity, which would direct the funds, not just for repayment of your debt, but also your _Life_ and success.

Alexander: So, Your commands aren't a way of testing our willingness to obey You?

Jesus: Why would _you helping yourself_ by obeying my commands be a test of your willingness to obey _Me?_

Alexander: Because Your commands don't make very much sense and they are so difficult to follow.

Jesus: You think that way because you don't know the Power of my Word. My commands make sense and Joshua had no problem following them because he saw how they would lead him straight through prosperity and on to victory that comes in the end.

Alexander: So, Your commands aren't just random, crazy things we are supposed to do, then You come down... and break laws of physics... and do miracles... and have favor on us?

Jesus: Nope.

Alexander: Man.... You really are from an "upside-down" kingdom.

Jesus: What is _that_ supposed to mean?

Alexander: Your way of thinking is so "upside-down" compared to mine.

Jesus: I AM right-side-up. I don't know where you get the idea that Heaven is inverted.

Alexander: But Your way of thinking is completely opposite of how I have been taught.

Jesus: That's because _you_ are the one who is upside-down. My Kingdom is right-side up. I assure you.

Alexander: How do I get to the place where all this makes sense to me, though?

Jesus: I have been telling you.

Alexander: Your Word?

Jesus: My Word is the Word of Life. It will guide you through the darkness and deliver you from danger and lead you straight-on through prosperity to success in whatever I have put in your heart for you to do.

Alexander: Okay. So, Your Word will guide me.

Jesus: If you read it.

Alexander: Once a day, fifteen minutes. Is that enough?

Jesus: _Any_ amount of time with my Word of _Life_ will give you more _Life_.

Alexander: It's difficult, though.

Jesus: Going to hell is difficult.

Alexander: Where did _that_ come from?

Jesus: You have to be _determined_ in order to get to hell.

Alexander: Determined at what?

Jesus: Hell.

Alexander: I thought the road to hell is easy.

Jesus: It's quite difficult, but many people are addicted to it. So, as difficult as the road to hell is—with the mountain range of my Love and Grace I have raised to block the way—people go there because they are addicted to the darkness.

Alexander: I thought we had to work to _escape_ from hell.

Jesus: Obeying my commands makes sense and leads you to success, it doesn't merely win my favor. If you don't read my Word and drown yourself in the writings of my Holiness, you will think of Me as a confusing God, and nothing will deliver you from the addiction to darkness that you were borne with.

Alexander: How do I break the addiction?

Jesus: With a new addiction: my Holiness!

Alexander: Praying and reading the Bible and all that is so difficult, though I know it's something I should do.

Jesus: No. It isn't something you _should_ do. It's something you can do... if you want to.

Alexander: But I don't have the desire. I only have this feeling that I "should".

Jesus: You could start by understanding what my Word is.

Alexander: It's a book that guides us. I know that.

Jesus: My Word is much more than that.

Alexander: How?

Jesus: My Word is a glimpse of Glory.

Alexander: It doesn't make sense, though.

Jesus: Neither does eating cheeseburgers. How did you come to enjoy cheeseburgers, anyways?

Alexander: I don't know. I just had one once and I started liking it the more I ate it.

Jesus: It doesn't have to make sense. Just, imagine being in my throne room, with Me. Ever wonder what eternity will look like?

Alexander: If I think too much about that I'll become so Heavenly-minded that I'll be of no earthly good.

Jesus: You mean you'll be of no _Worldly_ good.

Alexander: Eh?

Jesus: I AM the designer of your brain and your heart. I know how addictions work—that if you merely "understand" everything you will never get addicted to anything. My Holiness isn't a mystery, it's a _Fascination_ and an _addiction_ , that's why you can't fully understand it... and you don't need to.

Alexander: My pastor says that. I wish I had the resolve to be addicted to Your Holiness.

Jesus: When you enjoy something, even working hard at it is a pleasure—you'd never think of an addiction as "having resolve". Those people who pray to Me for hours on end—do you think they enjoy it?

Alexander: Probably.

Jesus: Not as much as I enjoy them, but I AM a big God. They, also, enjoy praying very much. Time with Me is the most pleasurable thing they can have.

Alexander: Better than cheeseburgers?

Jesus: Way better.

Alexander: So, all this stuff about Your Word and Spirit... it's really about an addiction to Holiness?

Jesus: It's about being addicted to either the Light or the Night. The Night is passing. I have been separating Light from Night ever since the Beginning. And, soon it will be Daytime. I wrote about it and gave you a picture. And that picture is in my Word. Know my Word and it will light-up your mind with my Holiness and you will be addicted. Then, more and more Scripture will simply make sense.

Alexander: I can understand something _and_ be fascinated by it?

Jesus: You understand fire, but it still fascinates you.

Alexander: Now You're sounding like my mother.

Jesus: Through time with my Word, I will replace the " _Mystery_ of Holiness" by giving you " _Fascination_ with Holiness". Just as with fire, the more you understand, the more you are fascinated.

Alexander: That's great and all. But I want to live and do. I love actions and obeying You. I still need to balance my faith with good works.

Jesus: They don't balance.

Alexander: HUH? You need both though!

Jesus: That's right.

Alexander: Well, which one is it?

Jesus: In Time.

Alexander: I'll learn in time, okay.

Jesus: No. They co-exist in Time.

Alexander: I'll understand _some day?_

Jesus: Plant the Seed of _Life_ in your heart by faith... _then_ water it by prayer, fellowship, worship, and meditating on my Word... _then_ share the fruit with others through your actions or "good works".

Alexander: With faith, I have eternal _Life?_ But that's not the end. Meditate and we'll naturally Obey, Prosper, and Succeed. Joshua 1:8.

Jesus: Faith _first_. It's part of your mind and belief. It's why I told Joshua to meditate on my Word before I even mentioned obedience.

Alexander: When You put it that way it feels like a huge burden has been lifted off my back.

Jesus: A relationship between faith and works can only happen in a sequence. If you see "faith" and "works" as a _balance_ instead of a _sequence_ you'll put the focus on yourself because you're attempting an impossible task. Good works aren't arbitrary—they expand samples of _my_ holiness to the world around you through your actions. You don't want to become disillusioned with your _own_ holiness—become fascinated with _mine_. Meditate on my Word so you can recognize Me when I call you.

Alexander: So, I need to stop reading the Bible like it's a to-do list or an "obedience-forgiveness permutation chart".

Jesus: The problem isn't in _how_ your charts and graphs define forgiveness, it's in the mere fact of using my Word for charts and graphs at all. Technical definitions can't replace simple _growth_.

Alexander: I need to just soak in Your Word and let it wash and water my mind.

Jesus: That's what I wrote it for. I AM the Word who cleanses and makes all things new.

#  **Scene 8: Revelate**

Carl: I wish I knew how to hear God's voice. [thinking he is alone]

Jesus: You can.

Carl: I know I can hear _You_ but... Oh, it's You, Jesus.

Alexander: Don't forget Alex.

Carl: You both got here at the same time. Did you ride together?

Jesus: No, we walked. I like walking, even better than swimming.

Carl: When will You teach me to walk on water?

Alexander-Jesus: Just stay focused.

Carl: You both said the same thing.

Jesus: We spend a lot of time together, so Alexander is "in tune" with many of the things I think.

Alexander: What do you think we were just doing?

Carl: Walking on water?

Alexander: No, spending quality time, _together_.

Jesus: But there's a lot I _don't_ tell Alexander.

Alexander-Carl: Huh?

Jesus: I've already said it.

Alexander: If You've "already said it" then You _did_ tell me.

Jesus: Not just you, everyone.

Carl: I know what He means.

Alexander: But you don't spend time with Him like I do.

Jesus: Oh, Carl does spend time with Me, but you are right, it isn't the same.

Carl: Jesus wrote many things to you in the Bible.

Alexander: The Bible was written to me?

Jesus: I wrote it to _everyone_.

Alexander: Then why don't You just tell me while we are walking?

Jesus: Carl, care to answer?

Carl: Because Jesus doesn't often repeat Himself. Remember the time He healed that blind dude and the Pharisees kept bugging him. Dude was like, "I already told you once, wasn't that enough?" He saw _their_ _nonsense_ how Jesus saw it.

Alexander: Are you saying Jesus thinks like a _high-productivity business man?_ "Don't make me say it twice!"

Jesus: I AM the one spoke the world into existence. Do you realize what would happen if I went around saying everything over and over until people decided to listen?

Carl: Jesus reveals Himself at every sunrise, every lighting storm, and every cherry blossom.

Jesus: And I've revealed myself through my Bible. If you want to know what I think about something, don't always take our one-on-one time to ask Me, just read my Book.

Carl: I agree. Bible study is my preference.

Jesus: Do you only know your friends through email?

Carl: No, my friends are different. I can actually see them.

Alexander: _I_ see the Lord. He's right here.

Carl: Yeah, but this is a weird experience. We're just fictitious characters in a story some guy wrote to make it easy for people to understand.

Jesus: You don't have to see Me with your _eyes_ to walk with Me. Let your _heart_ see.

Carl: _That_ makes sense! We need both!

Alexander: Jesus was saying stuff about all that the other day. What's your take?

Carl: To understand Jesus we need to know the Bible well, but not stop there.

Alexander: We need private-personal time with Him.

Jesus: They are not the same.

Alexander: If I have a choice, I prefer to walk with Jesus and know Him that way. His Holy Spirit can teach me.

Carl-Jesus: Wrong.

Jesus: I AM the one who decides which things are given through my Word and which things are given through my Spirit. Don't ignore what I wrote to you.

Carl: Scripture requires diligence. You don't want to learn all there is to know in a year and not learn after that.

Jesus: Some people stop learning.

Alexander: Why? You gave Your Holy Spirit.

Carl: They stop studying.

Jesus: Or they stop walking with Me... or they never walk with Me and all they do is study.

Carl: There's got to be something deeper. Both of us know You, sort of. I study a lot and Alexander walks a lot. We can learn from each other. But even in that, I feel like we've hit a glass ceiling. We want _more_.

Jesus: _More?_

Carl: Yes. We both want to _run_ with You, not just _walk_.

Alexander: He's starting to sound like me.

Jesus: Carl loves Me.

Alexander: But, honestly, I never wanted to admit this... even in all my exciting hyperactivity, I, also, feel like I've hit a glass ceiling in our friendship, Lord.

Jesus: How so?

Alexander: When I became a Christian in high school we were great friends. I prayed and learned so much about You in a short time. But somewhere it all seemed to reach a plateau. Did I do something wrong?

Jesus: You've done lots of things wrong—and I died for each one of them.

Carl: That's not what he means.

Jesus: Oh, really? Well, then, tell Me what your friend means. [with a patronizing-sarcastic-grandfatherly-loving smile]

Carl: Alex is asking if he's done something wrong that caused him to stop growing in his friendship with You.

Alexander: We walk together, but I don't feel close to You like I did in the beginning.

Carl: You could start studying your Bible deeper, for one.

Alexander: But I don't have time for seminary.

Jesus: I didn't call you to seminary.

Carl: You could just trust me more and not argue with me when I "seem" to make things complicated.

Jesus: And, Carl, you must _actually_ make things less complicated. Remember Alexander doesn't need to hear all the big words you use at seminary. Explain things so he learns more _about Me_ , not just more about vocabulary.

Alexander: _Thank You!_

Jesus: You're welcome, a thousand times.

Carl: Is new vocabulary bad?

Jesus: A little is okay, just not too much. And only if it is necessary, just like slang and grammar. And, Alexander, be willing to learn new words. I AM _the_ Word.

Carl: That's great, but I don't think that will help us break through our glass ceiling.

Alexander: Yeah. What do we need?

Jesus: Revelation.

Carl: We know that, we are asking _how_.

Jesus: Revelation.

Alexander: Rhema.

Jesus: "Rhema" means "mere words". You have those. You might prefer to say "logos"—"a word or words with deep intent".

Carl: Getting back on topic... Jesus, would You please tell us how to break through this glass ceiling. I can walk with You more and Alex can dig a little deeper in the Bible academically, with my help, so he doesn't have to go to seminary, but what else is there?

Jesus: I keep telling you.

Alexander: We want Revelation.

Carl: Revelation?

Jesus: Yep.

Alexander: Wait! You mean the _book?_

Carl: No.

Jesus: Yes.

Carl: _Revelation!?_ No one understands that book! And people only argue about it. I even know one congregation that was about to split and they made the book of Revelation "off limits" and it restored them to unity.

Jesus: I saw that. I WAS very sad.

Alexander: Why is unity a sad thing?

Jesus: They threw out the last book of my Word because they didn't understand Me. They missed the dessert!

Carl: But it's about the End Times. We can't understand that until the next life—until eternity.

Jesus: So, why did I inspire it as part of my Scriptures?

Alexander: That's a good question.

Carl: So we can know that we don't understand You?

Jesus: Why would I take so much time, and call a book "Revelation", from the word "reveal". just to send the message that you can't understand the message?

Alexander: That wouldn't make any sense.

Carl: You are a God of mystery?

Jesus: But I AM not a God of nonsense. I have revealed myself in my Word. If you want a deeper Revelation of my heart, you know where to go. I gave it a big label and placed it at the end of my Book so everyone would know where to find it.

Alexander: So, You are saying that Revelation makes more sense than Carl?

Jesus: Oh, yes.

Carl: I make lots of sense!

Alexander: But can you make sense of Revelation?

Jesus: That's the wrong question.

Alexander: I thought You wanted us to read it.

Jesus: No matter how much you read Revelation, you will never understand Revelation _as much as Revelation understands you_.

Alexander: You have a good point, I don't even understand myself sometimes.

Carl: So... Just read it?

Jesus: Revelation is where I reveal the future and explain the past. Your thinking must be transformed to understand all that. Renew your mind through meditation on my Word.

Alexander: Just read it.

Jesus: You will understand more of the book of Revelation the more you know what it says, even without understanding it all. But it's a two-way street. My Word becomes more familiar with you. The more confusing any book of my Bible may seem as you read it, the more of your own heart is revealed to mine.

Alexander: So as we come into the Light of Your Revelation, we are revealed to _You?_

Jesus: Knowing and being known are often related.

Carl: Why Revelation specifically? Why not the gospels?

Alexander: He never said _not_ to read the Gospels.

Jesus: Every part of my Word will help us grow closer. In Revelation I show you my house.

Carl: But You explained Your house in Exodus with the temple plans.

Jesus: That was my old house. You want Revelation about my new house, where I AM preparing a place for you... where my friends are your friends from all over the world... and we are all waiting for you.

Alexander: "Waiting", I've heard that concept. "Salvation isn't just about believing Jesus so we can wait to go to Heaven. We must work _now_."

Jesus: We who are in Heaven are the ones waiting. You are working.

Carl: That answers a lot of questions I had.

Jesus: Revelation from Me tends to shed Light on a lot of questions. Then they often answer themselves.

Carl: How can I know more, though? It's not every day I get to have a face-to-face with Jesus.

Alexander: He's been telling us.

Carl: What!?

Alexander: Read.

Jesus: Revelation.

Carl: I will, but...

Jesus: You already knew that "Heaven is waiting while you are working".

Carl: How did I _already_ know that?

Jesus: It's in Revelation. Just read it: everyone's worshiping Me. The activity is on the _earth_.

Carl: Oh, yeah. It's so simple I looked past it.

Alexander: That's true. We do tend to make things more complicated than they really are.

Jesus: Just read. Listen. Know what I said before trying to "read my mind". I will reveal myself if you will be still and accept my Word.

Carl: But what about diligence?

Alexander: Diligence—there he goes again.

Jesus: Diligence about what?

Carl: Diligence about studying Your Word.

Jesus: Diligence about studying my Word about what?

Carl: Diligence about studying Your Word about studying Your Word.

Alexander: This is going nowhere?

Jesus: About what?

Alexander: Circles?

Carl: I must know background, do word-searches, cross-references, word-studies... all of that is necessary to understand Your Word.

Jesus: Reading my Word for what it is _first_ is necessary for "background, word-searches, cross-references, and word-studies" to even be useful.

Alexander: You don't need all that, I'm telling you.

Jesus: No, he _does_ need all that, and you need to listen to what he says about it.

Carl: But, You're saying, if I don't meditate on it first, just for what it says, then none of that research will do any good?

Jesus: I AM the one who illuminates, inspires, and reveals myself. Your diligence won't unveil one, single new thing about Me. When I reveal myself, if you truly grasp the depth and light, it should overwhelm you. You will stand in awe of what you do not yet understand. If you jump right to word-searches before pausing in awe first, then you probably missed something.

Carl: So, when I first read Revelation, I should just be like, "Whoa! This is heavy. This is bright. This is deep. Wow".

Jesus: Don't jump to the text books before you have that moment of reading in awe.

Carl: I like my text books.

Jesus: I made you to like them, but they don't come _first_ in the Revelation process. I reveal myself _first_ , you understand _later_.

Carl: So, just sit there and understand that I don't understand?

Jesus: No. Sit there and read it again.

Carl: Then I will understand?

Jesus: No, then you will say, "Whoa! This is heavy. This is bright. This is deep. Wow," again.

Carl: What's the point in _that?_

Alexander: Meditation. Hello!

Carl: Meditation is _freaky_.

Jesus: My commands are "freaky?"

Carl: No, it's just weird.

Jesus: My commands are "weird?"

Carl: No, they're just freaky.

Alexander: "I'm not talking in a circle—it's more like an oval."

Jesus: So, you think I inspired Paul with the wrong stuff?

Carl: Huh? He told us to study the Scriptures diligently.

Jesus: I inspired him with the idea to meditate on things that are pure and lovely and praiseworthy.

Carl: But some translations say that he said to "think" on such things.

Jesus:...think... over and over, that's "meditation", just like I told Joshua when I gave him his first copy of the Pentateuch, the first installment of my Revelation.

Carl: What?

Jesus: "Meditate on this Book day and night. Don't let it depart from your lips."

Carl: So, I should just read it over and over without thinking?

Jesus: Do _I_ need _you_ to think before _my_ Word can illuminate _your_ life?

Carl: _I_ might need to.

Jesus: I AM the one you need. Listen to Me.

Alexander:...and cut with all that distracting "diligence" stuff.

Jesus: No. You still need the diligence and the word-studies and background—but not _first_.

Carl: So, I should basically memorize the book of Revelation before understanding it?

Jesus: You can't meditate on my Revelation without it eventually shining so much light in your life that your understanding of nearly everything increases. Listen first, then interpret, then listen more...

Carl: So, just be in the light?

Jesus: As I AM in the light.

Alexander: _I want to be in the light!_

Jesus: But, Alexander, you must study also.

Alexander: I don't want to! I just want to _know_ You.

Jesus: And I want you to know Carl.

Alexander: I know Carl.

Jesus: But you must appreciate his _diligence_ as I do so you can appreciate _him_ as I do.

Alexander: I thought You just told him to hold-off on that "diligence" stuff...

Jesus:...that "diligence" stuff that _I put in his heart_. I put it there, so it will stay there. I AM merely telling him to put it on a back burner so he can appreciate my Word from the first moment he reads it.

Alexander: Here I thought You were going to finally get him to lay-off...

Jesus: In the Beginning.

Carl: That's it!

Alexander: That's what?

Carl: In the Beginning... God's Spirit was simply... there. Everything wasn't made yet, but that's okay. His Spirit was with everything as it existed right then and there.

Alexander: Sounds like meditation to me.

Jesus: I call it "stillness".

Carl: And the first thing He did was shed Light on Creation, even as simple as Creation was at the time.

Jesus: I separated the Light from the Darkness when I began to reveal myself.

Carl: And it all unfolded from there.

Jesus: I WAS in the Beginning.

Carl: Just like You want me to be in the Light of Your Revelation. I should just "revel" in it.

Jesus: I revel at the thought of _you_.

Alexander: But I don't want all this "diligence" stuff. It distracts me from You, Lord.

Jesus: Anything out of place distracts people from Me. That's why I put everything in place in the Beginning.

Carl: Word-studies later, Alex.

Alexander: I don't _like_ them.

Jesus: My Word likes you.

Alexander: That's not what I mean.

Jesus: How can you know what my words mean if you don't study them?

Alexander: Okay, fine. I'm willing, but I don't want to go to seminary.

Carl: We talked about this already.

Jesus: That's why I sent Carl. Meditate _first_ , on _my_ revelation, not on your own academic diligence. Then, afterwards, give academia to what you already meditated on... talk with your friend Carl. Then go and meditate again.

Carl: That makes even more sense!

Alexander: Huh?

Carl: When I go off and jump to the word studies right away, I end up meditating on my own learning. I need to start by just pausing to say, "Wow! What an awesome God! Hey, let me read it again... Wow! What an awesome God! Hey... let me read it again... Wow! What an awesome God!"

Jesus: You meditate on whatever comes _first_.

Carl: I'll return after the word studies and meditate on it all over again—once I have more insight. The issue is making sure that we appreciate God's greatness at every step of the process. I don't want to be impressed by my own research instead of _His Glory_.

Jesus: Like an idol worshipper who worships something he himself made, as if it can serve him any benefit. If he made it, then it can't help him with any problems he couldn't solve himself.

Carl: So, by doing word-studies before pausing in awe, I meditate on my own ideas rather than being penetrated by His Word. I don't grow. I hit a glass ceiling.

Alexander: But we need to live this stuff out! We need to apply it to our lives.

Jesus: Not before you do your diligence. First things first. Second things second. Third things third.

Carl: Snap! I got it! We must meditate first... not jump to conclusions... not interpret... not do the "it leapt off the page at me so I'm gonna' do it right now" routine... not apply... just meditate. _Then_ do our deeper diligence. _Then_ , after all that, we keep meditating as we apply it to our lives.

Jesus: Don't jump to apply right away. You are still in development and have much to learn. Your first impressions are not infallible.

Alexander: What's that supposed to mean?

Carl: When you read the Bible, and something "leaps out of the page at you", it's possible that you could misunderstand it.

Jesus: I AM revealing myself. You are still growing.

Alexander: That happens to me a lot.

Jesus: What happens after that?

Alexander: I go change my life right away.

Jesus: What happens after that?

Alexander: I make a mistake and have to undo all the stuff I just did because I interpreted it wrong. I'm not perfect, You know, but I try.

Carl: You didn't do your diligence before applying what you _thought_ you understood.

Alexander: I don't want to waste time. I want to apply this stuff now!

Jesus: You waste lots of time that way.

Alexander: How?

Jesus: Doing and undoing is a waste of time.

Carl: Walking with Jesus in a _circle?_ Maybe an _oval?_...maybe _running?_

Alexander: _You talk_ to Jesus in circles and ovals.

Jesus: Alexander, you yourself said you hit a glass ceiling. If you were growing so fast and perfectly, then all of that "it leapt off the page at Me so I'm gonna' do it now" stuff would be working for you. But it isn't.

Carl: Be open to something new.

Jesus: Don't do the same thing over and over, expecting different results—that would be insane.

Carl: Didn't Rita Mae Brown say that?

Alexander: Albert Einstein said it first.

Jesus: I illuminated his relativity.

Carl: So, we can finally get going to the next level in our walk and talk with Jesus!

Alexander:...And our _run_ with Jesus. Okay. I'm ready for results.

Jesus: I AM too.

Alexander: I'll try. But Carl, you need to help me with the "study" part.

Jesus: And Alexander, you help him with the "just meditate and appreciate" part.

Alexander: I get this.

Carl: _We_ get this.

Jesus: And I get you both.

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#  **Theatrical Permissions**

Permission for theatrical dramatization of all or any part of this work is granted by meeting each and every of the five following criteria: 1. that actors and/or the presenting organization possess one legally owned publication (both eBook and paper versions accepted) of this work per person actually performing a role, 2. that no admission is charged for the event in excess of $5 per person, or more in the case of fundraisers, 3. that any and all scenes be performed each in their entirety, except in the case of talent shows where the performance is introduced as "...an excerpt from Crossroads At the Day of Bapticost by Jesse Steele" 4. that no performance demonstrate, imply, or suggest a purpose of disrespect or satire of the work itself, and 5. that some form of credit is given to the title and author of this book for the understanding of the audience, with proper spelling where printed, such as, "...presents: Crossroads At the Day of Bapticost, by Jesse Steele." Obvious room for reasonable artistic license is expected, but must not misconstrue the intent of the author. Home videos of such events are permissible and in-house recording may be used for the purpose of showing excerpts in a "best of" review within the presenting organization, but no video, audio, or other reproduction of such theatrical displays of this work may be redistributed for sale without written consent of the author. If you wish to resell such reenactments of this work, you may contact the author for inquiries relating to that purpose.

# **About the Author**

Jesse Steele is an American writer in Asia who wears many hats. He learned piano as a kid, studied Bible in college, and currently does podcasting, web contenting, cloud control, and brand design. He likes golf, water, speed, music, kung fu, art, and stories.

Jesse owns various brands, occasionally teaches writing and piano, and preaches the evangels of Linux, Open-Source, and Jesus.

Today's news, yesterday.™

Email:  books@jessesteele.com

JesseSteele.com

**Other Books by Jesse Steele**

**Churchianity: At the Crossroads (Act II)**

Mere Theology

The People's Party: A Blueprint for American Political Revival

Clergy Don't Shepherd: God 101

Game On: A Christian Strategy Guide for Noobs

The Four Planes

Memoirs of Ophannin

Monkeys in the Jungle: Why Some Trees Just Won't Grow

The End: A Bible Translation of John's Revelation
