>>Andy Serwer: All right. I would like to
bring up our next two guests and they are
Ari Emanuel and Patrick Whitesell, the co-CEOs
of WME Entertainment.
[ Applause ]
Good to see you. Thanks a lot, guys, for coming
and for patiently waiting in the wings. You
probably know who these guys are. They run,
you know, what's likely the most powerful
agency in Hollywood or the world. It is an
incredibly dynamic place with a client list
that blows me away. I mean, Patrick --
>>Patrick Whitesell: You're one of them.
>>Andy Serwer: That's true. I should disclose
that. Boy, I forgot about that. That's a real
conflict of interest here, isn't it?
>>Ariel Emanuel: Depending on the questions.
>>Andy Serwer: I'm not a very good client,
am I?
>>> No, you're good.
>>Andy Serwer: That's right.
Anyway, can you mention some of your clients,
you guys? Because it is a pretty awesome list.
>>Ariel Emanuel: It is Larry David, Marty
Scorsese, Michael Moore, Sacha Baron Cohen,
Adam Sandler, Matt Damon, Lady Gaga. You want
to keep on going?
>>Patrick Whitesell: In the movie business
we have, I don't know, probably a good majority
of -- good chunk of the movie stars that you
have seen are the people behind the cameras,
as Thomas was talking about.
And in television, I think the majority part
of the shows people watch in this room, I
think --
>>Ariel Emanuel: If they watch TV here.
>>Patrick Whitesell: -- are "30 Rock," "The
Office," and "Entourage." So, we have a real
dominant kind of television business.
In the touring business, we book about 25,000
tours a year. It is all types of music from
Lady Gaga to country western music, Braid
Paisley, or hip-hop. So it is a real cutting
big cross-section.
>>Andy Serwer: Right. You guys merged Endeavor
with William Morris about 15 months ago. Ari,
I want to throw this to you. Let me just ask
you: What was the point of the deal? What
were you trying to do? And how's it going?
>>Ariel Emanuel: Well, as you guys have -- in
this crowd have all ruined our lives a little
bit, Patrick and I probably about seven years
ago looked at the world and said, There's
going to be -- when we had Endeavor, there's
going to be more distribution than ever. And
that if we believe that content is king when
we were at Endeavor, we had two big pockets.
We had the television business and the movie
business.
And the premise was that we needed more content
as the world expanded on the distribution
side and that our leverage inside that conversation
would become greater as the world kept on
expanding on the distribution side.
If you just took television, in '95 when we
started endeavor, there was four networks.
If you look at it now, it's an ungodly amount
of television being consumed and even greater
amounts of television being consumed.
So when we looked at it, we could add a publishing
 -- an author business, a theater business,
a lecture business and a music business.
And then as we pushed in on the conversation
as relates to distribution, we would have
a different seat at the table.
And then off of that as distribution changes,
whether it be in social media, et cetera,
how we used our branded content and how we
had the conversation in the traditional manner
into the expanding kind of world of content
and how you define content gave us more leverage.
So that was the basis for it.
>>Andy Serwer: So, Patrick, how's it going
with the new model? You hear a lot of people
saying that, Oh, you know, the old Hollywood
model, the whole Hollywood agent model is
dead. What does that mean? And what are you
guys doing to get out of that trap?
>>Patrick Whitesell: Well, first of all, I
don't think the old model, if that's what
you call it, is dead. We are probably doing
more television. Our traditional businesses,
we're doing probably more television work
than we have ever done. The movie business
is, as Tom mentioned, is not going away. There's
1.3 billion tickets sold ten years ago. There
will probably be 1.3 billion sold in ten more
years. So the film and television business
 -- And music actually, the byproduct of the
changes there, acts have to tour more. Our
core business and what we have done for a
long time hasn't changed a lot.
I think where you are seeing the biggest change
is the type of people we represent has expanded.
The people that are going to come up here
 -- the people that will come up here you
are going to see in a little bit are clients
of ours.
You know, the idea that you can take a company
like Hasbro that is a toy manufacturer and
they can become intellectual property and
creators of movies and also own a television
channel or cable channel, that can happen,
right?
And I think as you will see the next phase,
which Ari is talking to, is as the economics
start making people that we represent incentivized
to do branded content for the Web, you will
see that content get really good.
So as you start seeing the marriage of our
people with people like Demand Media and Richard
or Anthony Borges and Grab and social gaming
and you start seeing the people we represent
starting to play in those areas, then you
will see the content and how -- and the spike
of the quality of content go up.
So what Ari and I are trying to do with the
company is to position ourselves and our clients
for those opportunities. And I think that
is a kind of new model.
>>Ariel Emanuel: I mean, one of the things
we have to do kind of going into the future
 -- and I think for everybody, it's a requirement
 -- is the definition of "content." What I
defined it as 20 years ago, 15 years ago,
has completely shifted.
So that what Patrick says, you know, what
Demand Media is doing or anybody else is doing
as it relates to content, that is a form of
content.
What we're doing with LinkedIn and a bunch
of our authors -- right? -- and what we've
talked to you about, that is a form of content.
The important thing for people on our side
of the business is, one, we have to stay curious
and we have to kind of keep on changing as
the needs for content and the different forms
of content start to change, and then utilize
what we believe are people that actually know
how to tell stories and know how to express
themselves that other people are interested
in and find distribution for them. That will
be our task into the future.
I don't know if you can write an algorithm
for that, but I do think there's a place for
it, and, you know, the big question and the
push/pull in this environment is how people
remain -- enable people on our side of the
ledger to get paid while permitting an open
source to everything.
And I think it's incumbent on the two kind
of areas of California to get to that conversation
so that there can be expansion in their -- in
their business model but it can't erode our
business model, and I think that's a very
big issue that we're getting to, we're -- you
know, everybody's discussing. I don't think
the answer is there yet, though.
>>Andrew Serwer: Yeah. It sounds like -- I
don't know if I'd hear Ari Gold talk about
this, right? I don't think he's quite up to
this.
>>Ariel Emanuel: Well, I mean, as somebody
said, you know, there's a lot of four-syllable
words here and there hasn't been any four-letter
words here? There will be on this panel.
>>Andrew Serwer: Right. Good. Okay. We'll
separate the television personality from --
>>Ariel Emanuel: Yeah.
>>Andrew Serwer: Right. You know, it's interesting
because when you talk about the two Californias,
you know, I've seen that a lot and that's
also sort of the New York versus San Francisco
and L.A. versus San Francisco content versus
distribution and technology. Hollywood has
 -- what I was talking about in the beginning
 -- I think has always followed, you know
 -- you know, we talked about the film, TV,
and radio, but, you know, you're seeing, you
know, the Ashton Kutcher people laughed. It's
for real. You know, what he does. I think
Will Farrell. You saw what Matt Damon and
Ben Affleck have been trying to do, and now
what you guys are trying to do.
Is there a new feeling in Hollywood that you
guys aren't just sitting there and waiting
for stuff to hit you, that you guys are getting
to be more proactive with technology? Do you
think, Patrick?
>>Patrick Whitesell: Well, I think the one
thing that most of our clients are talking
about and what we spend a lot of time talking
about the answer to is, you know, they drive
a lot of this activity on Twitter or on Facebook,
and mostly it's disruptive to their lives.
There's a few people who embrace it, you know,
and relish it, but a lot of people -- and
with "Us Weekly" or whatever it is, most of
it is invasive, but it drives all these economics
for other people, not themselves.
And so we spend a lot of time -- we know what
their value is to consumers. We know what
they are to the advertisers. So we're -- the
next step for us is, okay, how can they economically
benefit from those things that are out there
and are happening. And I think that's probably
the biggest thing that comes up for us right
now.
And then secondly, how do you take all of
that information and activity and drive it
back to their movies and to their properties.
And those two things, and our ability to kind
of -- you know, kind of figure that out with
the advertisers, I think is going to be a
real big business for us.
>>Andrew Serwer: Right. Do you guys like to
talk to people like Dennis, you know, at Foursquare
and, you know, how can you bring entertainment
ideas to Foursquare?
I mean, that must be a really cool brainstorming
conversation when you're talking about --
>>Ariel Emanuel: Well, we just had a pretty
big and a continuous conversation with LinkedIn.
We're doing it with other people, as Patrick
pointed out.
So from our perspective, you know, there's
some content -- you know, there was that big
article today in the "New York Times" and
I think in "Wired" this week about, you know,
is it an apt world or, you know -- we're constantly
in this conversation. There are some clients
that need to be in that conversation, and
then there are some clients that just -- Larry
David could give a ____, right? He's making
"Curb," that's what he's doing, and it doesn't
matter to him.
There's other people like the Lady Gagas and
other clients that that is an important conversation
that they want to explore.
From our perspective, as Patrick said, we
think we have clients that move product and
move economics, and how we monetize their
relationship with the consumer through distribution
is going to be where we think there's going
to be innovation for a bunch of our clients
and where there's a monetization formula for
a bunch of clients -- a bunch of distribution
that might not have economics underneath them
that kind of work right now.
>>Andrew Serwer: You and I were talking about
that story you mentioned in the "New York
Times" today. I think it was an excerpt from
 -- a book, I believe, that Nick Bilton is
 -- the two-four-ten? Did you all see that?
About how content will be consumed from two
feet, four feet, and --
>>Ariel Emanuel: Search it on Google.
[Laughter]
>>Andrew Serwer: Right. And -- yes. Nicely
played.
And that, you know, your mobile is your two
feet, your computer screen is four feet, and
your TV is ten feet. And of course, you know,
they're not going to all drive each other
out of existence and you have to play across
all the platforms.
>>Ariel Emanuel: Right. I think it was a pretty
good article.
>>Andrew Serwer: What about, you know -- about
live, live events on the Internet?
I mean, are you guys -- is that ever going
to happen, and -- or having on-demand on the
Internet or live events on the Internet? We
were talking about that as Patrick. That seems
to be kind of far off.
Is that something, you know, you consider
at all?
>>Patrick Whitesell: I think that is far off.
You know, I don't think that's an immediate
 -- like I don't think the economics around
that are immediate.
I think what you are seeing, just as an example
I just came from the Toronto Film Festival,
and, you know, up there what's been dying
is the independent movies that have had a
hard time getting out there and being seen.
Because in the old model, with all the windows
taking so long, the marketing dollars, and
to try to find an audience, is getting harder
and harder. And actually cable television
has really hurt it, because a lot of great
dramas are on television, so people -- it's
eroded the movie-going audience.
But what you're seeing now is that the VOD
model for independent film is a great thing,
because what's happened is it allows the economics
of guaranteeing someone distribution and advancing
them some money against a theatrical distribution
as long as there's a quick window into the
VOD. It allows more people to see it, everybody
to make more money, and therefore, you're
seeing, consequently, in Toronto we just sold
two movies that probably wouldn't -- well,
they may have been sold but they certainly
wouldn't have been sold at what they got sold
for.
So I think in some ways you're going to see,
you know, kind of this -- you know, the collapsing
of windows, and in the big movies, it's going
to be longer and it shouldn't be. But I think
a lot of the more niche film, I think it's
going to be a good thing and you're starting
to see that, and I think that's -- I think
that's going to be the most fascinating to
me when I look at the four studios, four primary
studios of Newscorp and Disney and now Comcast
and -- who did I miss?
>>Ariel Emanuel: Warner.
>>Patrick Whitesell: Warner. Yeah. Of course.
But they all have slightly different kind
of agendas, but I think that you're going
to see them all kind of play around with this
windowing, and I think that will be a good
thing.
>>Andrew Serwer: Talking about products, we
have to talk about product placement and that's
kind of a, you know, big topic these days.
You know, I was looking at "Wall Street: Money
Never Sleeps," the second iteration of "Wall
Street," and I think they're in a bar and,
what's it, Gekko asks him, "Would you like
a Heineken," you know, and Shia says "Yes,"
and it's just, you know, pretty blatant.
I mean, are you guys doing more and more of
those kind of conversations --
>>Ariel Emanuel: Television -- in fact, on
television it is happening more and more.
So we're having conversations with the WPPs.
I mean, our business -- in our business model,
we have a whole marketing/advertising business
that, as we see the business, that coupled
with marketing is going to be a very important
relationship.
How we handle the big advertising agencies
I think is -- you know, they built a distribution
model that they have to execute, but we're
having more and more conversations with advertisers
every day, whether it be the P&Gs, the GMs
of the world. Almost on a daily basis now
you're having those conversations.
You know, in the television business, in cable,
in 2007 there was 30 scripted shows. Now there's
130, right? So it's not like it's -- that
window is closing. It's expanding. There's
more television being watched.
The economics behind it are -- on the network
side are stressed a little bit, but only -- and,
you know, during the recession, the -- you
know, the ad rates were down, even though
CPMs were going up.
So I think the advertisers are going to be
the bigger players in this conversation and
they're pushing in on the relationship with
the distribution model in the core business.
So yes.
>>Andrew Serwer: Are you guys surprised that
there isn't actually more interactivity between
television and the web? Because, you know,
I remember talking to Ben Affleck and Matt
Damon. They had this show call showed "The
Runner" that they pitched.
>>Patrick Whitesell: A Foursquare show.
>>Ariel Emanuel: Great show for Foursquare.
>>Andrew Serwer: Yeah. Exactly. That was Foursquare
before there was Foursquare. There was a guy
set loose in a --
>>Ariel Emanuel: Rights are available. Talk
to me about it.
>>Andrew Serwer: And I don't know if you heard
about this --
>>Ariel Emanuel: We'll just charge you 50,
okay?
>>Andrew Serwer: That's good for him.
And they turn this guy loose in America and
you had to find him. And the show would run
once a week, I guess -- I'm kind of getting
this maybe not so right -- and then -- but
then you could keep following the show online
and he would appear in a doughnut shop in
Paducah and then people would go.
And I believe that ABC said they would do
it but their lawyers --
>>Ariel Emanuel: After 9/11, it got cancelled.
>>Andrew Serwer: -- nixed it because -- right.
Because -- so there were security concerns
or people -- people were also scared they
were going to shoot the guy when they found
him to get a prize, and it sort of had some
problems, but --
[Laughter]
-- anyway, you could see the potential to
do these things. And I think "Lost," you know,
has done some of this stuff where, you know,
you could crowdsource plot changes. I'm just
surprised that there's not more of that going
on.
Is that something you guys think about?
>>Patrick Whitesell: I don't think -- I think
now is actually -- I think you can for the
first time to really have the conversation.
I think "The Runner" was a little bit ahead
of its time. It was a great idea but I don't
think you could actually execute it the way
you could now. But I think you will see more
of that and I think you're going to see it
in social gaming particularly.
You know, I think that's an area where whether
it's woven into the narrative of a television
show or if it's just your celebrities driving
traffic to that and participating and coming
in and out of the game with you, I think that's
going to be an exciting place, too.
>>Andrew Serwer: Yeah. Does anyone have any
questions? I've got a bunch more to ask these
guys, but if anyone wants to, just maybe pop
up to the mic.
There, we've got -- we have a brave soul making
his way over. You go.
>>> A lot of news about "The LeBron Show"
that you guys packaged. Maybe you want to
talk to us a little bit about that and implications
going forward.
>>Ariel Emanuel: I have no implications going
forward. I mean, you know, it came out of
sitting at the game with his manager.
And I think they're probably going to win
down in Miami.
How about that? That's a prediction for you.
[Laughter]
>>Andrew Serwer: What the hell was that? Very
good.
>>Ariel Emanuel: I mean, you know, I sold
the show.
>>Andrew Serwer: That's good. Yeah. All right.
Talk it up a little bit.
>>Patrick Whitesell: Advertisers are happy.
>>Ariel Emanuel: Advertisers are very happy.
>>Andrew Serwer: Let me ask you about another
thing that you may be involved with a little
bit that might be --
>>Andrew Serwer: ESPN is happy too. No.
>>Andrew Serwer: -- just as interesting or
maybe even more interesting to this audience
which is "The Social Network," the movie about
Facebook, and I believe Mr. Sorkin is a client
of yours, so can you talk a little bit more
about that?
[Laughter]
>>Ariel Emanuel: Um...
>>Andrew Serwer: Because that seems kind of
 --
>>Ariel Emanuel: It opens at the New York
Film Festival on the 23rd. I think the movie
is -- I'm hoping the studio doesn't do any
advertising because I think it's just going
to work on its own.
And I think probably the people at Facebook
are a little nervous.
[Laughter]
>>Ariel Emanuel: How about that?
>>Andrew Serwer: That was good. What's that?
>>> (Speaker is off microphone).
>>Ariel Emanuel: I don't think so. I think
the movie is -- listen, I'm a character on
a show. It's been pretty good for me. I think
it's going to be pretty good for them.
[Laughter]
>>Ariel Emanuel: Huh? Yeah, you want me here.
>>Andrew Serwer: That's the Ari we know. Now
we got Ari going. All right. How do you put
up with this, Patrick?
>>Ariel Emanuel: It's hard for him.
>>Patrick Whitesell: 12 years.
>>Ariel Emanuel: 12 years.
>>Andrew Serwer: That's good. Nicely done.
Okay. Good.
So I wanted to ask you -- I was talking to
you about this earlier, about --
Any more questions, please feel free to just
pop up.
>>Ariel Emanuel: I dare you. No, go on.
>>Andrew Serwer: I don't know, it was pretty
brutal. You got no one after that. It was,
like, quiet.
The global nature of what you do, are you
surprised that the -- is the movie business
or the entertainment business more or less
global than you would have thought, say, 10
years prior?
If you -- if I had asked you in 2000 or nineteen
ninety- --
>>Patrick Whitesell: Oh, it's definitely,
definitely more. It's only -- but I don't
think 10 years ago you saw it coming. You
know, the international marketplace in the
film business is bigger than the domestic,
so that's not a surprise. I think what you're
now seeing, though, is actually studio -- there's
film finance companies all over the world
that now we actually cover like we do Warner
Brothers or Universal, and we go to them to
kind of make -- and that never would have
happened, one.
Also, two is, it used to be that you would
always take your best content or your best
ideas always to the studios first, and now
you still obviously will do that a lot of
times, but weirdly enough as -- if you want
to bifurcate rights and hold back more of
the control, when you're really hot, you actually
want to take it to the studio last, which
we talk to Thomas about a lot, where you would
maybe partner with someone and then go to
them at the very end just for domestic distribution.
So that part of it has changed and the -- and
there's a lot of -- you know, more people
wanting to get into the movie business.
I think it's smarter money, though, and it
used to be a lot of people would get into
the film business, particularly just for vanity
reasons, and now people, you know, more and
more are serious about making money and making
 -- building a proper business model.
And so yeah, I'd say it's definitely --
>>Ariel Emanuel: Internationally also, like
in France, they're making English movies but
they're paying for them just for their market.
It's -- it's great right now.
>>Andrew Serwer: Some of those French banks
have had some bank experiences in Hollywood,
if we can think back a bit.
>>Ariel Emanuel: Yes, they have.
>>Andrew Serwer: Yeah. Let me just follow
up a little bit and talk about the two -- two
of the biggest markets in the world which
are equally -- you know, they're interesting
but both problematic for different reasons,
which are India and China.
Do you guys do a lot of business in China?
Is it -- I mean you -- it's such a difficult
place to do IP work, though, right? I mean,
I know our company, Time Warner, has a very
difficult time conducting business. You know,
our films just get pirated right away and
we just kind of say, "You know what? We're
just not going there."
What do you guys think?
>>Ariel Emanuel: Well, there's some -- in
India, a lot of the animation -- also in China
 -- kind of coming out of their innovation
and production houses, a lot of the studios
have moved -- Sony, Fox -- on the television
side there and making some local movies. I
think there's probably some constraints on
the economics as it relates to getting money
out of China, but they're all trying to figure
that out. So...
>>Andrew Serwer: Can you do stuff in India?
I mean, we hear about Bollywood but as far
as I can tell there's like Bollywood and Hollywood.
You know, one or two huge movies being exceptions,
but is there anything -- is there any connectivity
there?
Not so much?
>>Patrick Whitesell: Not so much really. You
know, there was a big announcement about all
these deals they made with talent a few years
back.
>>Andrew Serwer: Right.
>>Patrick Whitesell: They made kind of production
deals.
But in Hollywood, there are what are called
second-look deals, so what happens is if you're
a producer in Hollywood and you have a deal
with a studio, you make what's called a first-look
deal or an exclusive deal, but normally a
first-look deal, where they'll pay you some
overhead and your only obligation is you got
to bring them all your ideas there first,
and then if they don't want them, they pass
on them, you can take them to everyone else
in town.
They made -- most of those deals were second-look
deals. So a second-look deal doesn't really
have a lot of teeth in it because usually
if something is really great, it's usually
been sold the first time, and if your only
obligation is to take them to a second time
 --
So it was a big announcement but I don't think
a lot of movies have come out of it yet because
it doesn't, you know --
>>Ariel Emanuel: How many people in Silicon
Valley would do second-look deals? Not a lot,
so...
>>Andrew Serwer: Interesting. Yeah. Good point.
Why is it that people -- and we got to wrap
things up here in a minute. Why is it that
people are always saying, you know, "The Hollywood
studios are dead," "Oh, you know, they're
dinosaurs," and yet, you know, they keep -- they
keep lingering on.
I mean, they seem more powerful than ever.
You know, we always hear about independent
 -- the wave of independent studios, and those
actually are the ones that ended up, I think,
kind of getting killed over the past 10 years,
right? I mean, how does that whole --
>>Patrick Whitesell: Well, I think the studios
are not -- I mean, the film side, they certainly
aren't dead, by any means. I think that the
biggest challenge they've had is the variety
of types -- the variety of movies they can
make has been challenged. I think if you're
Warner Brothers, you know -- and Tom works
for them, but they are -- you know, they were
making two Temple movies a year, now they
make eight, I think, right? And that's where
they make the lion's share of their money.
Or if you're Disney, you want a movie that
kind of you can -- you can monetize throughout
all your platforms, the theme parks, the merchandising,
ESPN, whatever it is. So that constraint causes
a lot bit of a challenge for them because
everybody has this idea that people who work
at studios don't want to make creative, original
movies. They do. It's just the economics get
so expensive that it puts them in somewhat
of a box.
>>Ariel Emanuel: I mean, you're sitting there
 -- you know, everybody thinks a movie is
the movie business. The movie business is
the DVD business. You know, with Netflix and
their economics and then the economic downturn
and what happened at Walmarts of the world,
the economic underpinnings of the business
kind of started to implode, so that's why
they reduced.
I do think, though, technology is going to
 -- and as Patrick said, on the independent
side, those two elements and how you deal
with the Netflix issue as it relates to DVDs
 -- when Warner Brothers held back "26 Days,"
you saw the DVD numbers spike.
So when you look at the movie business, the
movie business is a DVD business. It's not
 -- I mean, theatrical drives it, but it really
is the economics behind the business is there,
and that is challenged right now.
Until those things kind of -- VOD, Blu-ray,
all those things start coming back in the
economy, I think they're still going to be
challenged for a while.
>>Andrew Serwer: And it's interesting. You
know, we hadn't talked about Netflix, an amazingly
successful and adaptive company, right? I
mean, so how are they being so successful
right now if that business is so weak?
>>Ariel Emanuel: Well, because it's a subscription
business --
>>Andrew Serwer: Right.
>>Ariel Emanuel: -- right? And then they're
building out other models on the VOD side
and on the pay side, so...
>>Patrick Whitesell: And the business isn't
weak. Here's the thing, is that what happened
was when a studio would make a movie and they'd
underwrite their costs, they would budget
in what they thought it would do on a DVD
sale. And so when you -- when you have a movie,
you would much rather have someone buy it
than rent it. At least currently, in the current
model. Netflix doesn't care about that. They're
not underwriting the model, so they're just
in the rental business, and what they did
was they got aggressive about online and taking
kind of their mail system online in some kind
of -- moved there faster. They've just done
a great job of that.
But I think, you know, you may read somewhere
Netflix has a ton of rental sales. That may
or may not be great news to the studio.
>>Andrew Serwer: Right. And it's interesting.
We were talking about, you know, TV and the
Internet and I was saying, you know, we're
still a long way from being able to watch
live TV on the Internet. There are people
in this room I know who are going to disagree
with me but for the average consumer especially
with sports, they're sitting there at home
without a TV, it's hard to watch an NFL game
or an NCAA college football game still on
TV, so there's still a ways to go with that.
Just last question, Ari, just about a TV question.
So do you see TV -- people who make independent
television production companies, are they
thinking about making shows for the web the
same way they are about making shows for television?
>>Ariel Emanuel: Well, there's no independent
scripted business. The really independent
business is in the reality side and I think
it will be the kind of driver that you have
multiple plays on it -- right? -- where a
story line is -- can end up on the web and
come back to the reality show.
So I think that's where it will start and
that's where it will happen.
Eventually, there will be a -- a scripted
show that really kind of incorporates all
the elements of what's great about -- about
the web or apps or games or whatever, and
the normal scripted story line.
>>Andrew Serwer: Right. I mean, you see people
trying it like there are --
>>Ariel Emanuel: I think it's going to, but
I think it's first going to start on reality.
>>Andrew Serwer: Right. Okay. We're going
to have to leave it at that. Please join me
in thanking Patrick Whitesell and Ari Emanuel.
[Applause]
