>> Sreenivasan: THE UNITED
KINGDOM IS COUNTING DOWN TO
BREXIT, THEIR EXIT FROM THE
EUROPEAN UNION.
WITH PARLIAMENT FACING
SUSPENSION, COURT CASES IN THE
WORKS AND PROTESTS LIKE TODAY'S
LIKELY TO CONTINUE, NATIONAL
PUBLIC RADIO CORRESPONDENT FRANK
LANGFITT JOINS US NOW VIA SKYPE
FROM LONDON FOR MORE ON THIS
DEVELOPING STORY.
THE PROTESTS THAT WE'RE SEEING
SEEM TO BE GROWING, AND THEY
SEEM TO BE NOT JUST LIMITED TO
LONDON ANYMORE.
>> NO, WE SAW THEM IN GLASGOW,
IN OXFORD, LIVERPOOL, OTHER
CITIES AROUND THE COUNTRY.
THEY WEREN'T THAT BIG TODAY, AND
I THINK AS WE GET CLOSER TO THE
OCTOBER 31st DATE WHEN THERE
COULD BE... THE COUNTRY COULD
CRASH OUT OF THE E.U. WITH NO
DEAL AT ALL, I THINK YOU'LL SEE
THEM GROW.
>> Sreenivasan: THIS ISN'T JUST
THE PEOPLE WHO ARE, WELL, I
GUESS, IN THE OPPOSITION PARTY
WHO ARE PUSHING BACK AT WHAT
BORIS JOHNSON DID.
OVER THE PAST COUPLE OF DAYS,
WE'VE SEEN MEMBERS, CURRENT
MEMBERS OF THE CONSERVATIVE
PARTY AS WELL AS PREVIOUS ONES.
>> YOU DO, AND YOU... I THINK
YOU HAVE REBEL MEMBERS OF THE
TORY PARTY WHO ALSO OBJECT TO
THIS.
AND THEN, A LOT OF THE OBJECTION
IS TO THE PRINCIPAL.
WE HAVE A PARLIAMENT THAT'S
SITTING HERE.
BORIS JOHNSON IS MAYBE GOING TO
GIVE THEM FIVE... AS LITTLE AS
FIVE DAYS TO COME BACK AND TRY
TO MOUNT A WAY OF STOPPING HIM
FROM TAKING THE COUNTRY OUT WITH
NO DEAL.
THE MAJORITY OF THE PARLIAMENT
IS AGAINST THIS.
THEY'RE ON RECORD BEING AGAINST
THIS.
SO, THE IDEA THAT BORIS JOHNSON
IS TRYING TO CURTAIL THEIR TIME
IN POWER REALLY STRIKES AT...
IT'S A MUCH BIGGER ISSUE THAN
JUST BREXIT.
IT REALLY STRIKES AT, MANY
PEOPLE FEEL, THE REPRESENTATIVE
NATURE OF THE DEMOCRACY IN THE
COUNTRY.
>> Sreenivasan: NOW, SIMILAR TO
THE UNITED STATES, YOU'VE GOT
PEOPLE WHO SUPPORT THIS,
PEOPLE... IT'S A VERY SORT OF
DIVIDED OR A DIVISIVE ISSUE.
YOU WENT OUT TO KIND OF WHAT'S
CALLED THE MIDLANDS, WHAT WE
MIGHT THINK OF AS THE RED
STATES, PEOPLE WHO SUPPORT
LEAVING THE EUROPEAN UNION,
RIGHT?
>> ABSOLUTELY.
YEAH, IT WAS... IT'S REALLY
BREXIT COUNTRY, AND I GOT TO
SAY, HARI, IT'S LIKE HAVING A
PARALLEL CONVERSATION, LIKE IN A
DIFFERENT COUNTRY.
WHEN I WAS UP IN A TOWN CALLED
BOSTON, FOR WHICH BOSTON,
MASSACHUSETTS IS NAMED, WHAT
EVERYBODY WAS TELLING ME, THIS
HAS BEEN GOING ON FOR MORE THAN
THREE YEARS.
"WE FEEL THAT THESE ANTI-BREXIT
MEMBER PARLIAMENT ARE TRYING TO
DEFY THE RESULTS OF THE 2016
REFERENDUM," AND THEY SAY,
"THEY'RE THE ONES WHO ARE BEING
ANTI DEMOCRATIC, NOT US."
SO, PEOPLE ARE LOOKING AT THIS
ISSUE RIGHT NOW THROUGH
COMPLETELY DIFFERENT LENSES IN
THIS COUNTRY.
>> Sreenivasan: SO, THEIR
FRUSTRATION OUT IN THE MIDLANDS
AGAINST THEIR PARLIAMENT, WHO'S
NOT GETTING ANYTHING DONE SOUNDS
A LOT LIKE SOME OF THE
FRUSTRATION THAT MEMBERS,
CITIZENS OF THE UNITED STATES
HAVE WITH CONGRESS NOT GETTING
ANYTHING DONE.
>> ABSOLUTELY.
AND I THINK THAT YOU SEE THERE'S
A PARALYSIS... THERE'S BEEN A
PARALYSIS ON CAPITOL HILL TO
SOME DEGREE FOR QUITE SOME TIME.
YOU'RE REALLY SEEING IT IN THE
LAST THREE YEARS HERE IN THE
UNITED KINGDOM.
THE OTHER THING IS PEOPLE TODAY
WHO ARE GOING TO LONDON I TALKED
TO ALSO MAKE COMPARISONS ABOUT
HOW BORIS JOHNSON IS... THE
PRIME MINISTER IS VIOLATING THE
NORMS IN THEIR OPINION OF U.K.
DEMOCRACY.
AND OF COURSE, WE'VE BEEN
HEARING FOR THE LAST TWO AND A
HALF YEARS IN THE UNITED STATES
ABOUT DONALD TRUMP DOING THE
SAME THING IN THE UNITED STATES,
REALLY AFFECTING AND NOT... NOT
FOLLOWING THE NORMS AS THEY'VE
BEEN FOLLOWED FOR MANY, MANY
DECADES IN THE STATES.
>> Sreenivasan: SO, IF YOU HAVE
BEEN A BRITISH CITIZEN IN FAVOR
OF LEAVING THE EUROPEAN UNION AT
THIS POINT, DO YOU OVERLOOK THE
TACTICS IN WHICH BORIS JOHNSON
IS USING?
>> I THINK YOU'RE DEAD ON.
WHAT I WAS HEARING UP IN THE
MIDLANDS JUST A COUPLE OF DAYS
AGO IS PEOPLE WHO WERE LOOKING
PAST THOSE NORMS, AND THEY WERE
SAYING, "THIS IS GOING ON TOO
LONG.
I JUST WANT TO SEE JOHNSON END
THIS AND MOVE OUT AND GET THE
COUNTRY OUT OF THE E.U."
WHAT'S REALLY INTERESTING, HARI,
IS TO TALK TO BUSINESS PEOPLE
WHO KNOW THAT THIS IS GOING TO
HURT THEIR BUSINESS,
PARTICULARLY UP THERE.
THEY RELY ON AGRICULTURAL
WORKERS FROM EASTERN EUROPE.
THEY'RE ALREADY FEELING THE
PAIN.
BUT FOR THEM, THEY WANT OUT
OF... OUT OF THE EUROPEAN UNION,
AND THEY WANT SOMEONE TO DO IT
FOR THEM, AND THEY THINK JOHNSON
IS GOING TO BE THEIR GUY.
>> Sreenivasan: OKAY, WHILE THIS
ALL HAPPENS, WHAT'S ACTUALLY
HAPPENING ON THE SORT OF U.K.
GOVERNMENT-TO-E.U. LEVEL?
BORIS JOHNSON SAYS HE'S WORKING
BEHIND THE SCENES TO TRY TO GET
THIS GOING.
IS THERE ANY POSSIBILITY THAT
IN FIVE DAYS OF DEBATE THEY
COULD COME TO SOME RESOLUTION,
OR EVEN BEFORE THAT A DEAL COULD
BE REACHED?
>> I THINK THERE'S GREAT
SKEPTICISM ABOUT THAT.
WHILE BORIS JOHNSON HAS BEEN
SAYING ONE THING, WHAT WE'RE
HEARING OUT OF BRUSSELS IS
THERE'S NOTHING NEW ON THE
TABLE.
AND REMEMBER WHAT BRUSSELS HAS
BEEN SAYING ALL ALONG IS WE HAVE
TO PRESERVE AN OPEN BORDER ON
THE ISLAND OF IRELAND.
THAT DOES NOT WORK FOR THE
UNITED KINGDOM.
THEY FEEL THAT THEY'RE...
THEY'RE GOING TO END UP HAVING
NORTHERN IRELAND TOO CLOSELY
ALIGNED WITH THE E.U.
AFTERWARDS.
IT WOULD BE LIKE THEY'RE NOT
EVEN LEAVING THE E.U.
AND THAT'S JUST BEEN SORT OF A
GORDIAN KNOT FOR BOTH SIDES.
SO, THE OTHER THING IS THAT WHAT
IS THE LIKELIHOOD THAT JOHNSON
CAN GET THIS DONE IN SIX WEEKS
WHEN IT TOOK THREE YEARS AND
THERESA MAY FAIL, THE FORMER
PRIME MINISTER?
SO, I THINK PEOPLE ARE VERY
SKEPTICAL THAT HE'S GOING TO BE
ABLE TO COME OUT QUICKLY, BE
ABLE TO TURN THIS ALL AROUND AND
DO SOMETHING THAT HIS
PREDECESSOR WASN'T ABLE TO.
>> Sreenivasan: N.P.R.
CORRESPONDENT FRANK LANGFITT
JOINING US VIA SKYPE FROM LONDON
TONIGHT.
THANKS SO MUCH.
>> HAPPY TO DO IT, HARI.
