I just took a step back and was thinking
okay if I was in Allie's shoes what do I
think would help me understand or what
what it simply what would help me
understand and as a black person I have
viewed this documentary called thirteen
and it's on Netflix in it when I watch
the documentary my whole ideal ideology
about the government about black people
in America I mean I know my black
history I am a part of black history but
that documentary shifted everything that
I thought about our judicial system our
police force and to add my dad is was a
police officer in a black neighborhood
in Cleveland and he is white so I had
like all of these thoughts and emotions
that I've been kind of going through
these last couple days but just in this
documentary per se this is where all the
anger is coming from and I just wanted
her to understand that this is systemic
this is on purpose this is this is years
you know like years of in the making
this is social justice in women's hockey
a new series of critical conversations
about the role of women's hockey in the
fight against oppression I am your host
Erica Lindsay
Ayala tonight we speak to a pair of
Boston College alumna Blake Bolden and
Allie Thunstrom at the professional
level Blake and Allie continue to play
hockey in the professional women's
hockey players association and the
National Women's Hockey League
respectively our conversation is broken
into two parts both of which are
available now on YouTube we thank you
for joining us for social justice in
women's hockey we hope you can learn
something from this conversation with
Blake and Allie and that you are
challenged to join the fight against all
forms of oppression
okay Erica Ayala here with Allie Thunstrom
of the Minnesota Whitecaps Allie very
happy to have you be an integral part of
this conversation and this new series
that we're bringing to women's hockey
fans as you know obviously you and I had
a conversation earlier with Blake Bolden
but we wanted to come back and just lay
the foundation and set the scene a
little bit so Allie I'm gonna kick it
off to you to first just give us a sense
of as we record this on June 1st you
know what is happening in Minnesota and
we'll start there in how that led us to
our conversation with Blake yeah totally
so you know as as the world and the
nation knows on Memorial Day on Monday
last Monday
George Floyd was was murdered in the
streets of Minneapolis which is just a
short you know 10 miles from where I
live that's where my dad grew up my
grandma still lives there my cousin
still lives there so it's definitely a
city that is very much home to me so you
know I didn't hear a lot about it until
Tuesday and that's when the video came
out and I remember seeing it with my
family and watching it and just so much
discussed in horror I've never seen
somebody die in person like that and you
know it wasn't in a movie it was a
murder literally on TV that happened
just miles away and I think I couldn't
make sense of it I was heartbroken you
know I think we all were and immediately
like I said that's my dad's hometown him
and I both reached out to the mayor of
Minneapolis via a letter he said to text
I sent an email which kind of seems
backward given them age gap but you know
we immediately reached out and said you
know you have to do something this is
not our state this is not what we
represent like that was unacceptable and
we urge you to do the right thing here
and so you know it kind of went from
there and there's just a lot of emotions
and
then as Wednesday came that's when you
know the fire started in in Minneapolis
and I had tons of friends down there and
I have friends that live just a mere
blocks away that you know we're posting
like debris in their front yard and just
that's how close it was getting and then
as you know things turn to Thursday it
just it was a whirlwind there was so
much going on and you know I've seen
riots on TV and I've never experienced
it in person and I had no idea you know
what to think in what was going on and
as Thursday was going it was sometime in
between I'm not sure they posted the
address of the former officer if we want
to call him that um and it was just a
mile and a half down the road from my
house and as I looked at the address it
turned out that it was just a mere block
away from one of my very very close
friends who her husband's actually out
of town and they have three young
children and we are getting word that
people were coming from out of state to
burn the house down and burn the
neighborhood down and you know there was
just all this information coming on
Facebook and through group messages and
it was very overwhelming and all of
these things were happening and it was
nobody knew what to do and at that point
I got a text from my friend that lives a
block over saying that they had been
advised to essentially grab what they
could and evacuate because they had
reason to believe that people were going
to come start fires and there was
nothing they could really do to protect
that area you know if it did start to
burn down the collateral damage would
likely be there houses in the
neighborhood as well and that was kind
of the point where I just kind of lost
it and I didn't understand I want
protection for my family and friends and
I want them to stay safe and all I could
think about was them and my friend and
her three kids having to pack up what
they could and go seek you know shelter
somewhere else and that's when I sent
the tweet and you know it was just a
really overwhelming situation and very
much in neighborhoods of people that I
loved and cared deeply about yeah Ali
you know again I've expressed this
offline but you know I'm I'm terribly
sorry for what you and your community
are going through and I mean that that's
not a great picture that you just
painted for all of us and it's certainly
not great what we're seeing you know on
the news and on social media now for
everyone that's going to watch the
conversation that we have where we bring
in Blake golden as well you know I want
everyone to know that we wanted to first
you know give a little bit of a better
interview we like number one but number
two is you know I want to make it clear
that you know we all entered this come
trying to really explain what happened
in the past as far as you know decisions
that you made surrounding your tweet if
any we're reflecting on what you did
after that
and hopefully you know what people can
glean from that as they two are trying
to figure out what to say you know how
to own their own feelings while also
being thoughtful so Allie›4› just before we
cut over to the interview you know the
roundtable that we had you know what are
some things from our conversation that
we're about to play that have really
resonated with you since the three of us
were on the call a lot honestly I think
that the Nicole we had was just so
incredibly powerful and and I think that
you know collectively our voice is
moving forward are exactly what our
sport specifically needs but what
everybody can learn from you know I
don't I can't assume that I understand
your experience and you know vice versa
but I think that's a major thing that
you know so often we want to say the
right thing and make the right statement
and do the right thing too and make
those actions but the piece that we tend
to be missing is I need to listen to you
and listen to what you need and listen
to what your experiences are and you
know I think that is the piece that we
tend
to miss and the site is it's not about
what I can do to make me feel better or
to make me feel like I'm making a
difference I need to be a better
listener to to people like blake
yourself people of the black community
people of the LGBTQ community everyone
that's different from me I need to take
time to listen to them and to understand
that their needs before I ever try to
assume that I understand what's going on
yeah I think that was a take away from
me as well I mean we all shared and I
learned a lot but that I had never you
know I had never made connections to
certain things that you and Blake were
able to share and you know Blake side
here with us now but definitely stick
taps to her I absolutely did a really
great job of being open not not only to
you but also just even to conversation
it's not necessarily something that she
had to do and then she was she was
pretty open about her you know her
process not just in this moment and
what's happening in San Diego where
she's at but also through her career we
thought that that was powerful so this
is going to be you know the first
installment of what will be a series of
conversations with people in women's
hockey players and fans and I've already
gotten official talks so thank you Ali
and of course thank you to Blake and
we're gonna cut over to that interview
now
you're standing but I see from the
outside like in that moment I was asking
for protection the very same protection
that George Floyd should have been
getting on Monday night and that the
community should always have and so I
did make that connection and it's just
like I get it it has provided a lot of
Ally I've known you for a very long time
and I was shocked when you called or
reached out to me because you don't talk
on a daily basis this is interesting and
to be clear I didn't read your tweet but
I know who you are and I know that
you're a good person so even just to
hear you say that you went from here and
then came full circle that's a big step
of understanding and you reaching out
and starting a conversation and then
being brave enough to talk about it
further you know so you should be proud
of yourself I'm proud of you
and I love you I don't I I wasn't in
your situation I don't live in Minnesota
I don't see what's happening and you
were the first city you know like now
all of these things are trickling down
yesterday was turn you know all these
cities are burning basically and you
didn't have time to process or
understand because it was just right at
your front step like and you felt in
danger upset about your friends - so
you're brave for doing your research and
coming on here and talking about it and
being and like just having the empathy
and try trying to understand so I'm I'm
proud of you for that thank you big love
you always well and and thank you both
you know I think just to rewind a little
bit so obviously we've seen what has
happened since George Floyd
is essentially killed there were
different video camera shots and we saw
that the the Twin Cities area really
rallied behind what they felt wasn't an
unjust death at the hands of law
enforcement which unfortunately in this
country is very much associated to race
and racism for an overwhelming majority
of the black community in particular but
also just this country's history
I hope what I hope to facilitate here is
again that that connection that you ally
and and that you had with Blake and then
what has come from that because I think
that's where the women's hockey
community and and honestly our our
society as a whole could really learn
some things so first I want to just
backtrack a little and you know you
shared Ally like you shared as well but
I'm curious do you have any any things
that you hope will come out of this
conversation I know I've said my piece
as the facilitator what I'd really love
for you both to share what you hope will
come from this conversation yeah totally
um you know it's it's something I've
struggled with over the last several
days and thinking about and I think if
my story and and how you know something
that I reacted to again with no intent
of mouse was able to be taken in a way
that I didn't understand I think that's
a really important part and you know as
somebody that always tries to do the
right thing and you know to be put into
that spotlight as what is you know
whatever it was really eye-opening and I
think that there are a lot of other
people that have similar shoes to me
where you know we we are inclusive and
we love everybody we love you know our
black community everyone and you know
have always tried to be supportive and
want to have open doors and all of that
but I think that there are a lot of
things that we don't understand and you
know similar to how I didn't understand
the connection I think that you know
when talking to some other people over
the past several days there were a lot
of people that originally were like well
I don't get it either and I was able to
explain to them I was like well you have
to think of it and this is what I've
been you know educated on and how people
have told me and it really has been an
eye-opening conversation and it's so
unfortunate that something as tragic as
George Floyd's death and everyone you
know Eric garner and Brianna Taylor and
everyone before them that has
had to endure this kind of violence for
us to understand what it's like on a
daily basis I think is a really
important conversation simply you know I
think that one of the quotes is just not
being racist isn't enough you're
essentially you know silences being
complicit and I think that was a really
tough message to hear but a really
important one is that it doesn't matter
if you are inclusive and that you love
and respect people and you know you
don't judge based on skin color or any
of that because that's only half of it
there's there's still a whole lot more
there and to ignore the bigger picture
is kind of the message I think and I
also have you try men Blake what are
your hopes for this conversation my
hopes for this conversation I mean I've
had days to process and you know in
talking to Ali I felt I'm I feel for
people when they're going through pain
like I physically feel for people and so
I want you Ali to feel like you have
released that bad stuff out of you and
to move on because you are doing the
right things and you are making amazing
strides and this is not like a bash Ali
bash with white people conversation and
it's a let's just have a conversation to
understand where anger or frustration
comes from you know I am a black woman
that has played a predominantly white
support my entire life and I've never
felt comfortable having these
conversations until this moment and so
sometimes these things happen
you know we have martyrs in our black
history in our community and you know
I'm in a privileged position you know I
have privilege within my own sector of
race too so I just want there just to be
an understanding and and I believe that
we are and can be stronger together um
thinking
passionate individuals and the
anti-racism because like you said just
just being cool and saying y'all I got
black friends so I'm not racist like you
know my boyfriend's white he's not
racist but he knows you know we have
these conversations we can go into a
store and people can look at us weird
like we go through these things I go
through these things and you know
talking about it helps and it's that
every single person's doorstep right now
Wow yeah I really appreciate you saying
that Blake because obviously both of you
are athletes you're on the ice you know
both Boston College alumna and have
really been able to carve a space out in
in the hockey world and there's a lot of
responsibility that comes with that as
someone who is new to the hockey space
but also identifies as black I must say
that I hear where Blake is coming from
and these are conversations that I also
have just recently started asking people
about like Blake I always ask about mean
you know that's just because you talked
about martyrs but you've always been
billed rightfully so as a pioneer and
there's a lot of expectation that comes
with that and we talked about that over
the years but in the last few months
I've also made a point to talk to other
athletes so like a Jillian Dempsey or
you know to talk to players and and also
executives about what this means outside
of the the heavy contexts that we have
now and I think the place that I want to
go next is to you Blake when you when
Ali reached out to you as I understand
you offered her not just as a friend to
be there and to listen but you also
offer here some resources and I'd love
for you to take us through as you were
hearing what Ali was was giving you said
he hadn't seen the tweet you
what was it that made you feel that one
she was ready to receive and to that
these particular resources would be
supportive if you can just walk us
through that
well she texted me when I was cooking
and you know I was like I can't handle
this right now I but I was thinking as I
was going on through the 15-20 minutes
gonna texted you pretty quickly after
yeah but she's going through it like I
need to support her right now I don't
want to talk to her tomorrow I need to
talk to her right now so I just took a
step back and was thinking okay if I was
in Ali's shoes what do I think would
help me understand or what what it
simply what would help me understand and
as a black person I have viewed this
documentary called 13 and it's on
Netflix in it when I watch the
documentary my whole ideal ideology
about the government about black people
in America I mean I know my black
history I am a part of black history but
that documentary shifted everything that
I thought about our judicial system our
police force and to add my dad is was a
police officer in a black neighborhood
in Cleveland and he is white so I had
like all of these thoughts and emotions
that I've been kind of going through
these last couple of days but just in
this documentary per say this is where
all the anger is coming from and I just
wanted her to understand that this is
systemic this is on purpose this is this
is years you know like years of in the
making so I just needed her to see it
and she watched it and unfortunately she
couldn't sleep because she was like holy
crap this sucks
I understand but she got it and she
wasn't like I don't know about that I I
don't really believe in that it was
facts she felt it and I just kept
sending her more information more things
about white privilege and and I knew
that she could handle it
as Ali's a tough cookie and I was like
she's reaching out to me for a purpose
I'm not just gonna sugarcoat it yeah I
think that's extremely powerful and Ally
I'm curious how much of what was
documented in the 13th which is named
after the 13th amendment of course how
much of that history
did you know before going into watching
the film I mean you know the general
things that I've learned in history
class over the years and I did take a
class on criminal justice at BC but it
was never necessarily broken down to a
an issue of race necessarily you know
they talked about that period of the
1970s where it was all the mass
incarceration and that's clearly where
we became the most incarcerated you know
in the world and it was it was never
quite as direct about what the
initiatives were at that point and yeah
and so it was it was always you know
every history book that I'd ever read
and I will be perfectly honest I'd the
history wasn't my best subject I I tried
really hard and I you know I just was
more of a kid but you know it was always
very more general and it was just like
you know from this period of time this
happened and it didn't break it down
like that and you know I think what else
was really powerful beyond that and an
understanding kind of even the period
before that when we gave black people
rights for the first time I mean now
looking back at in the year 2020 it's
mind-blowing that that even happened
it's like we had to have a movement for
black people to be able to vote you know
it's just everything behind it and then
I think what was also really something
that hit me was one of the women in the
video was talking about how in movies
and TV and you know everything else
black people are portrayed in negative
roles and negative things
at a proportion that's much higher than
reality and so when this is what you're
seeing on a daily basis I think that's
where you know a lot of when another
video that like showed me was how black
parents have to have conversations with
their children about you know how to
handle situations and with officers and
others and you know the threat of being
a black man and there's the quota at
what age do I go from being cute to
being a threat and that all just was so
heartbreaking because that's not a
conversation that I've had to have in my
family I never had
I have two older brothers my parents
didn't need to have that conversation
with them it didn't need to happen with
me but I think then when I like putting
it all together it's you know when you
see those images and that's if you're
not educated enough or you don't know
that you should ask more questions when
that's what's portrayed in front of you
constantly I can understand where that
fear comes in because that's what you're
seeing and and that was probably even
more powerful was that while this is
really something that's so ingrained in
our everyday life and and I get how
horrible that is to to have to have that
conversation with your kids and with
anybody nobody should feel that way and
you know the the fear that I felt with
the riots and everything going on in
Minnesota was horrific it was horrific
and I've never experienced a trauma like
that and you know we talked about there
was the Ferguson riots and there were
other riots over time but it was never
in Minnesota it was never in my city
it wasn't the people that I loved being
affected it wasn't you know my dad grew
up in Minneapolis my mom grew up in st.
Paul like this is everything I've ever
known and so that it all just kind of
comes together in that fear that I felt
in those four days this is something
that people of color and black people
specifically feel every single day of
their life and that was really a
breaking point for me yeah anything good
and I think Ally what you're getting at
and and language that people who study
these types of you know instances of
systemic racism like a Michelle
Alexander like a Bryan Stevenson to your
point but that's exactly what they do
they spend time in history drawing the
through line between you know slavery in
the United States and mass incarceration
today and those are things that when we
have these moments unfortunately of
bodies laying in streets or people being
shot in their own home there is not
always time to get into that very long
very saturated history of racism in the
United States and so I think a lot of
people are grappling with seeing
buildings burning and looting and all of
that stuff and connecting that to the
the root issues that are happening right
now and I think that that is a very
natural struggle I think it's it's okay
to to struggle with that but it's also
important to understand where that comes
from and I think that on social media
now whether or not I'll put it on me
I personally agree with how people as
they say came at you that's almost not
the point the point is that you know
there there was equal pain there maybe
not equal but there was there was some
pain on both sides of your words even if
that was not the intent and so what I
think though these are difficult
conversations right they're difficult to
have at any point in time but I want to
transition into now thinking of hockey
like let's come up with a really good
foundation and as I again as I said
before I've never had this conversation
because I was always I felt honestly
muffled like I didn't want to rock the
boat too much I was getting a lot of
attention just for the color of my skin
and some people are saying oh why is she
getting it you know I tend to just
couldn't call her skin like we don't see
color why is that a big deal but it is a
big deal actually it is a big deal
because I didn't have someone that
looked like me because I went through
some ish growing up playing in this form
you know I don't think that you guys had
to do that well I'm pretty sure that you
did it so let's just all understand so
we can cut the crap and not let this
happen or at least be aware of it so if
it does we understand what to do and how
to handle it and what to talk about and
how to support each other
you
