>> THAT OF COURSE WAS SENATOR BERNIE SANDERS JUST A SHORT TIME
BERNIE SANDERS JUST A SHORT TIME AGO ON HOW HE’S RUNNING HIS
AGO ON HOW HE’S RUNNING HIS PRESIDENTIAL CAMPAIGN.
PRESIDENTIAL CAMPAIGN. YOU REMEMBER WHEN SANDERS RAN
YOU REMEMBER WHEN SANDERS RAN FOR PRESIDENT IN 2016, HE
FOR PRESIDENT IN 2016, HE CERTAINLY BLAZED A TRAIL TALKING
CERTAINLY BLAZED A TRAIL TALKING ABOUT WHAT WERE THEN CONSIDERED
ABOUT WHAT WERE THEN CONSIDERED RADICAL IDEAS LIKE MEDICARE FOR
RADICAL IDEAS LIKE MEDICARE FOR ALL, A $15 MINIMUM WAGE.
ALL, A $15 MINIMUM WAGE. THIS TIME AROUND, SOME OF HIS
THIS TIME AROUND, SOME OF HIS CONTENDERS ARE BRACING THOSE
CONTENDERS ARE BRACING THOSE SAME IDEAS.
SAME IDEAS. THAT’S THE FOCUS OF "TIME"
THAT’S THE FOCUS OF "TIME" MAGAZINE’S STORY TODAY, A
MAGAZINE’S STORY TODAY, A QUESTION LINGERING OVER HIM, TO
QUESTION LINGERING OVER HIM, TO WIN THAT GAME, CAN WE CHANGE?
WIN THAT GAME, CAN WE CHANGE? JOINING ME NOW THE AUTHOR OF
JOINING ME NOW THE AUTHOR OF THAT COVER STORY, ANAND
THAT COVER STORY, ANAND GIRIDHARADAS.
GIRIDHARADAS. QUITE A PIECE.
QUITE A PIECE. YOU SPENT EIGHT DAYS WITH BERNIE
YOU SPENT EIGHT DAYS WITH BERNIE SANDERS RECENTLY.
SANDERS RECENTLY. WHAT WAS YOUR BIGGEST TAKEAWAY?
WHAT WAS YOUR BIGGEST TAKEAWAY? >> I THINK, YOU KNOW, MORE THAN
>> I THINK, YOU KNOW, MORE THAN SPENDING TIME WITH HIM, IT WAS
SPENDING TIME WITH HIM, IT WAS SPENDING TIME WITH THE CROWDS
SPENDING TIME WITH THE CROWDS THAT HE WAS ATTRACTING.
THAT HE WAS ATTRACTING. WE WENT TO A SMALL TOWN IN IOWA
WE WENT TO A SMALL TOWN IN IOWA WHERE THERE WERE 200-SOME PEOPLE
WHERE THERE WERE 200-SOME PEOPLE IN THAT TOWN AND ALL 200 PEOPLE
IN THAT TOWN AND ALL 200 PEOPLE CAME TO THIS EVENT.
CAME TO THIS EVENT. THIS MAN HAS BUILT A MOVEMENT, A
THIS MAN HAS BUILT A MOVEMENT, A FOLLOWING THAT IS AN
FOLLOWING THAT IS AN EXTRAORDINARY ACHIEVEMENT AND
EXTRAORDINARY ACHIEVEMENT AND IT’S A MOVEMENT THAT’S NOT DRAWN
IT’S A MOVEMENT THAT’S NOT DRAWN TO HIS SMILE, IT’S A MOVEMENT
TO HIS SMILE, IT’S A MOVEMENT THAT IS ANIMATED BY HIS THEORY
THAT IS ANIMATED BY HIS THEORY OF WHAT NEEDS TO HAPPEN IN
OF WHAT NEEDS TO HAPPEN IN AMERICAN LIFE THAT KIND OF FUSES
AMERICAN LIFE THAT KIND OF FUSES THEIR OWN PERSONAL PAIN AND
THEIR OWN PERSONAL PAIN AND HARDSHIP DEALING WITH BILLS,
HARDSHIP DEALING WITH BILLS, LACK OF JOBS, OTHER ISSUES IN
LACK OF JOBS, OTHER ISSUES IN THIS COUNTRY AND HAVE FOUND IN
THIS COUNTRY AND HAVE FOUND IN HIM A KIND OF ALMOST SECULAR
HIM A KIND OF ALMOST SECULAR PROF
PROF PROPHET.
PROPHET. HE’S SPENT 40 YEARS LEADING UP
HE’S SPENT 40 YEARS LEADING UP TO THIS, AND BEING LISTENED TO A
TO THIS, AND BEING LISTENED TO A LOT IS SOMEONE WHO HAS A LOT OF
LOT IS SOMEONE WHO HAS A LOT OF THE PENALTYRSONALITY TRAITS OF T
THE PENALTYRSONALITY TRAITS OF T ACTIVIST.
ACTIVIST. AND HE’S SKEPTICAL OF THE MEDIA.
AND HE’S SKEPTICAL OF THE MEDIA. HE TRUSTS HIS CLOSEST ADVISORS
HE TRUSTS HIS CLOSEST ADVISORS AND NOT THAT MANY OTHER PEOPLE.
AND NOT THAT MANY OTHER PEOPLE. AND HE HAS A GRUFF SIDE THAT IS
AND HE HAS A GRUFF SIDE THAT IS WELL KNOWN.
WELL KNOWN. AND I THINK ONE OF THE QUESTIONS
AND I THINK ONE OF THE QUESTIONS IS, HOW CAN HE GO BEYOND THE DIE
IS, HOW CAN HE GO BEYOND THE DIE HARDS THAT HE’S DONE A FANTASTIC
HARDS THAT HE’S DONE A FANTASTIC JOB GELLING, AND REACH OUT ON
JOB GELLING, AND REACH OUT ON RACE AND GENDER WHERE HE’S BEEN
RACE AND GENDER WHERE HE’S BEEN MAYBE A LITTLE BIT TONE DEAF.
MAYBE A LITTLE BIT TONE DEAF. HOW CAN REEVOLVE AT THIS STAGE
HOW CAN REEVOLVE AT THIS STAGE IN HIS LIFE?
IN HIS LIFE? >> DO YOU SEE ANY CROSSOVER?
>> DO YOU SEE ANY CROSSOVER? WHEN YOU SAY HE ATTRACTS THOSE
WHEN YOU SAY HE ATTRACTS THOSE WHO FEEL LIKE THEY’RE STRUGGLING
WHO FEEL LIKE THEY’RE STRUGGLING TO BE HEARD AND GET THEIR BILLS
TO BE HEARD AND GET THEIR BILLS PAID AND THEIR VOICES HEARD,
PAID AND THEIR VOICES HEARD, THAT SOUNDS LIKE A TRUMP VOTER
THAT SOUNDS LIKE A TRUMP VOTER AND THAT MESSAGE OF ECONOMIC
AND THAT MESSAGE OF ECONOMIC POPULISM IS ONE THAT THE
POPULISM IS ONE THAT THE PRESIDENT USED IN 2016.
PRESIDENT USED IN 2016. >> I WAS LOOKING FOR THAT, TO BE
>> I WAS LOOKING FOR THAT, TO BE HONEST, IN TALKING TO A LOT OF
HONEST, IN TALKING TO A LOT OF PEOPLE, WE DIDN’T FIND THAT.
PEOPLE, WE DIDN’T FIND THAT. BUT THAT’S ALSO BECAUSE IT’S A
BUT THAT’S ALSO BECAUSE IT’S A PRIMARY RIGHT NOW AND THESE ARE
PRIMARY RIGHT NOW AND THESE ARE RALLIES.
RALLIES. I THINK HE MAY GET SOME OF THOSE
I THINK HE MAY GET SOME OF THOSE VOTERS IN A CLOSED BALLOT BOX.
VOTERS IN A CLOSED BALLOT BOX. I’M NOT SURE THAT THOSE VOTERS
I’M NOT SURE THAT THOSE VOTERS ARE COMING OUT TO SEE HIM A YEAR
ARE COMING OUT TO SEE HIM A YEAR AND A HALF BEFORE THE PRIMARY.
AND A HALF BEFORE THE PRIMARY. THE REALITY IS HE ALSO HAS ALL
THE REALITY IS HE ALSO HAS ALL THE NORMAL PROGRESSIVE LIBERAL
THE NORMAL PROGRESSIVE LIBERAL STANDS ON ABORTION AND
STANDS ON ABORTION AND EVERYTHING ELSE THAT ARE NOT
EVERYTHING ELSE THAT ARE NOT ATTRACTIVE TO A BUNCH OF THOSE
ATTRACTIVE TO A BUNCH OF THOSE VOTERS.
VOTERS. BUT I THINK, YOU KNOW, ONE OF
BUT I THINK, YOU KNOW, ONE OF THE THINGS THAT WAS VERY
THE THINGS THAT WAS VERY STRIKING IN MY REPORTING WAS
STRIKING IN MY REPORTING WAS THAT HE WAS VERY DETERMINED TO
THAT HE WAS VERY DETERMINED TO WIN OVER THE TRUMP CURIOUS VOTER
WIN OVER THE TRUMP CURIOUS VOTER WHETHER OR NOT THEY WERE THERE
WHETHER OR NOT THEY WERE THERE IN THE RALLIES RIGHT NOW.
IN THE RALLIES RIGHT NOW. IN ORDER TO DO THAT, IT’S VERY
IN ORDER TO DO THAT, IT’S VERY INTERESTING, HE WAS KIND OF
INTERESTING, HE WAS KIND OF OFFERING A RETELLING OF 2016
OFFERING A RETELLING OF 2016 THAT WAS A LITTLE BIT REDACTED.
THAT WAS A LITTLE BIT REDACTED. HE WAS SAYING, TRUMP SAID HE WAS
HE WAS SAYING, TRUMP SAID HE WAS GOING TO HELP YOU AND THAT WAS
GOING TO HELP YOU AND THAT WAS HIS MAIN PITCH AND HE HASN’T
HIS MAIN PITCH AND HE HASN’T REALLY HELPED YOU.
REALLY HELPED YOU. BUT IT IGNORES THE WAYS IN WHICH
BUT IT IGNORES THE WAYS IN WHICH DONALD TRUMP HAD RUN OF SHOWISM
DONALD TRUMP HAD RUN OF SHOWISM AND A LOT OF PEOPLE LIKED THAT,
AND A LOT OF PEOPLE LIKED THAT, WERE DOWN FOR IT.
WERE DOWN FOR IT. AND PART OF THE QUESTION IS, IS
AND PART OF THE QUESTION IS, IS BERNIE SANDERS AS WELL AS OTHER
